EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
If those children are fostered by a department, NTI and the regional associations are informed through a letter in accordance with the Child Services Act where there’s an adoption or if a child is taken away from parents.
NTI and the regional associations are involved, depending on the community.
I asked that question because they’re older and they are well acquainted with traditional child rearing practices.
If an elder were involved in the intervention, would the Department of Family Services pay them?
I would like to explain for your information that numbers of families that require assistance are quite high within Nunavut and it has led to many problems within homes.
With respect to the facilities people are clamouring for here in Nunavut related to women’s shelters or men’s shelters, there are certain plans in place to try to provide these facilities.
Even with that work, it seems obvious to me that elders provide assistance in resolving these problems without going through social services but with local initiatives. This is apparent due to the seriousness of these issues.
I also want to inform members that the Department of Family Services has the responsibility of alleviating problems in the homes.
Further, actions have been taken on the social issues that have led to the creation of many organizations such as the Qulliit Status of Women Council, whose mandate is to advocate on behalf of women and to disseminate the information for ending violence in the homes. We have existing organizations that provide support.
We know elders get involved within our communities, even without involving social services.
I just wanted to clarify that for the members.
With that, I would ask that my deputy minister add to my response.
With those kinds of problems in the family, it’s usually conflicts between husband and wife.
It’s not only women who go to the shelters; men are also sent to another community.
This is excessively high in Nunavut. If a woman needs to go to another community to get away from a violent situation, elders usually get involved when it becomes an emergency.
It might take years with the violence in the home before a man or a woman finally decides to get out of that situation.
It must be understood, however, that it isn’t only women who flee from violence in the home.
It’s just that the only shelter for victims of domestic violence is for women and their children.
The women’s shelter in Apex, as an example, is always full, including children.
We had a few cases of men going to another community because they are afraid of their female spouse or they are unable to resolve their problems.
It may not seem appropriate, but with alcohol and drug abuse involved, some cases reach violence of shocking levels.
We all know this can result in murder, whether it’s a man or woman acting out of uncontrolled anger.
It is before things reach that stage that some people want to flee.
Perhaps I didn’t respond properly, so please let me know.
I understand the situation, but maybe you didn’t understand my question.
Before someone goes to a shelter or to another community in a violent situation, do the social service workers involve an elder for the intervention? If the elder gets involved in an intervention, is it possible for the elder to be paid for providing the counselling services?
The Department of Family Services follows the legislation as it pertains to every situation it has to deal with.
I see it as a suggestion that we can look into as a department for those cases.
In those situations of conflict, there are different types of violence.
Many seek help in such a way before their spouses get wind of it, which is one of the few rights a victim is able to exercise.
My colleague’s comments can be very constructive if they can be followed up.
We do try to provide help out there by using means outside of the department.
Some individuals caught in a situation have been helped positively by elders.
This is something I will need to investigate further to see if there is some way we can pay elders for their role or worked with in some capacity.
My staff may be in a position to respond to any particular question. If they’re unable to do so, it is can be addressed if it is brought forward in a written letter as it pertains to the member’s question.
Yes, I will look forward to your correspondence.
I had another question regarding the social workers and adoption services.
They don’t get involved with the actual adoptions, but they do the paperwork. Are you involved in the adoption cases or not?
As I just indicated earlier to David Joanasie, member from Cape Dorset, I was trying to explain the adoption cases.
There are always going to be adoption cases from the public, but we don’t go looking about where those adoption cases are.
We cannot take one side or another nor can we make an order such as using Inuit tradition to determine who takes the child.
All we want to do is to give official consent to what is agreed to by the parties involved.
What I said was that when people use private adoption, it is totally at their discretion.
It’s something that we are not in the position to decide.
I do apologize if the member did not understand about adoption cases, which can proceed privately using Inuit custom adoption practice. It is something we don’t have a say in.
Thank you for that clarification from the minister.
I have another question. It’s not an adoption per se; it’s about foster children, perhaps even an adolescent who has been abused.
The foster parents are paid financially to help with meals and care of a child.
How much are they paid per day? Is it only for the meals or the care of the child or is there an additional fee paid to the foster parents?
I’m just asking for clarification.
I apologize for my mistaken term I used at first, as I think I entitled you as the Speaker.
The people who are giving foster care to children or providing a home to a youth can negotiate with the Children and Family Services Division with respect to the member’s question.
If they receive income support and benefits, assistance for the foster children may be included in their income assistance.
Perhaps it’s in there. In that case, the social worker and the foster parent can negotiate that. I cannot say exactly how much they are paid.
I just wish to ask for more clarification. The cost of food bought in the stores is very high in Nunavut.
I would like to know the answer to that in case someone asks me this question.
Can they be paid on top of their income support?
I’m asking that question in order to understand that clearly.
If you can ask your local social worker, then you can get more information.
Yes, that’s the case. You can discuss it with your social worker or the income support worker.
If we are fostering a child that’s not our own and we want to get paid, we can discuss that with a social worker.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you very much. (interpretation ends) Branch Summary. Family Services. Children and Family Services.
Total Operations and Maintenance, to be Voted. $59,205,000. Agreed?
I believe we’re on page D-5, right?
I would just like to ask a question.
In the business plan, it is written that the legislation and policies will be reviewed and to ensure they’re being followed.
You said that you’re planning on reviewing the issue of adoption.
One of your priorities for 2015-16 and 2016-17 is that you will review the Inuit custom adoption legislation. I think I understood that.
How or what do you think needs to be changed as a result of this review?
This question was asked already, but if the minister wants to respond, Minister Mike.
I can only repeat my response, to ensure that this is not abused and to ensure that there are no loopholes that can be taken advantage of by non-Inuit. I think there have been three cases where non-Inuit attempted to abuse this loophole. It is fortunate that this abuse was discovered before the request was approved.
These people tried to use Inuit custom adoption to make an adoption. It’s for that reason that we are reviewing it further to make sure that there are no loopholes to allow that to happen.
You also wanted to review different legislation to determine if there can be more improvements made.
Minister, are you also going to review how families can live together better?
For instance, regular people call the Children and Family Services Division as the ones breaking up families; they take children away without hesitation even when we have a brief family spat.
Our own social workers break up our families for reasons based on your regulations.
Therefore, is it part of your review on how you can reduce breaking up families by your department?
Hon. Johnny Mike (interpretation): This has been asked more than once and I’m glad to hear that.
As I responded to the first question regarding the regulations and the legislation, we would prefer to operate under Inuit customs to improve the provision of that service and how we can improve the situation of families breaking up.
We want to apply solutions that are in harmony with Inuit customs. I agreed with that person to do the review using Inuit knowledge.
We want to do this to curb the incidence of breaking up families.
When will this review be completed and implemented?
Minister, are you thinking that during the term of the Fourth Assembly, you will try to complete the review and implement it?
I responded in the positive earlier without setting a date to conduct the review.
People are thinking today that it should be more in Inuit customs and traditions.
That is what I said. I will push to have that review done and get those dates identified.
Yes and my question is: during the Fourth Legislative Assembly, are you going to try to implement it?
If it’s complete, will you be implementing them within the term of the Fourth Assembly?
Hon. Johnny Mike (interpretation): As the minister and wanting to have this review operate more in the Inuit tradition, there will be many things that we have to turn to, such as working with the agencies that work on social issues.
Once we set a date, starting from there during this spring session, I know that we won’t have a complete set of solutions. We can provide an update at that time on what kind of schedule we can work under on when the decisions will be made.
We will have a better idea at that time.
We will ask questions at the spring session.
Let me move on to page 137 of the Inuktitut version. It states, Headquarters, $2,542,000. To date, $1,376,000 has been spent.
Please remind me, this increase of over $1 million, what that is for.
This was already asked, but if the minister wants to respond, Minister Mike.
On page 137, what does this concern?
In the business plan for 2016-19, page 137, Headquarters, $1,376,000 for 2015-16 and for 2016-17, $2,542,000. Mr. Chairman, I apologize. I had to leave for a while.
You said it was already asked. I’m sorry for asking again, but I want to understand as well.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you very much. (interpretation ends) In the business plan in English, it’s on page 129 regarding CFS Headquarters.
You guys had already answered, but the member is seeking an answer again.
Our official will clarify that, Ms. Vardy.
If I can ask again what page exactly so that I know what line item we’re being asked.
CFS Headquarters. He’s asking what the increment is in particular from 2015-16, $1,360,000 to 2016-17, $2,542,000.
Can you explain and answer what the increment is?
That over $1 million increase under that line, Child and Family Services Headquarters, is re-profiled money from adult services and that is meant for legal services for our child protection workers and their obligations to comply with the Child and Family Services Act.
That is meant for legal services.
So that I’ll have a clear understanding, you will be utilizing over $1 million for legal services just so we can have more advice from legal services?
Hon. Johnny Mike (interpretation): Thank you. Our official will respond to that question again.
Yes, we have a contract with a legal firm from Yellowknife and that amount is over $1 million to provide the services for Family Services.
We have to go through the Department of Justice to be able to acquire that kind of service, to get that referral from the Department of Justice.
I’m not trying to stay on the same topic, but it’s over $1 million.
I was wondering why there’s a huge increase all of a sudden.
Our official will respond again.
That is not an increase overall for the branch; it’s just a realigned amount from adult services.
It was previously in Adult Support Services, which we’re trying to really put the budget in the right line so that we will be able to provide a proper report and monitoring of our expenditures.
Now I understand the way it’s written for Adult Support Services. It was around $3 million, but it’s now $738,000 and it’s realigned to CFS Headquarters from Adult Support Services.
The funding is almost depleted and it has been realigned to CFS Headquarters for legal services.
When Family Services first started, we didn’t have a finance controller and a policy analyst in the department.
As we’re settling down, we now have a financial person with Ms. Vardy here now. She is identifying what funds were where so that the funding will not be reallocated elsewhere.
It was restated so that we can actually have a better estimate.
I want the members to know that for Adult Support Services, we are not going to deplete the funding because they have other sources of funding.
We’re now fixing up the finances properly and we’re using our plan based on the expenditures that we had. The staff is now being hired and the department is settling down.
As the minister said yesterday in his opening comments, there might be increases and reductions on some line items. He already stated that they were being restated to reflect actual costs.
That is why there seems to be a lot of change, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
I believe we’re still in the 2015-16 fiscal year and this is what you’re requesting for the 2016-17 fiscal year.
You want to increase it by over $1 million.
It’s now evident that the funding was insufficient for 2015-16.
Will we expect to get a supplementary appropriation proposal because $1.3 million is insufficient?
My official will respond to the question.
If the member can repeat his question, please.
Can you please repeat your question, Mr. Enook.
I’ll just repeat it again because it’s very simple.
As we know, now you have a competent financial person. Previously, the estimates were incomplete; some items were not spent while some other items were overspent.
As the deputy minister said, these numbers are being corrected.
That is what I understood.
With regard to $2.5 million that I am asking about, do you believe that is going to be adequate?
Following your request, it is now clear that the expenditures for 2015-16 were way too small.
Can I expect in the House to get a supplementary appropriation request to make up the funding for 2015-16 that was insufficient?
You said it would have to be around $2 million.
Is that what we can expect?
Our official, Ms. Vardy, will respond to that question.
We can only do the best we can to monitor our spending patterns. We are in the third year of our operation.
What we’re seeing in adult services is that we are not spending all of the money and what it cost to us is that we are looking at our variance reporting, big differences, big minus and big surpluses, and it doesn’t really help us in planning and look at our future expenditures.
Based on our three-year spending patterns, we are not spending all the money and we know that there are some costs or expenditures like legal services that are not supposed to be there and we need to really put them in the right places. We can only do so much and do it properly in terms of reporting and monitoring.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, am I being incomprehensible?
My wording seems rather clear, as I can understand myself clearly.
Your department is requesting $2.5 million in this line item, which is acceptable and has legitimate uses.
What I was trying to ask about, which I have languished in trying to put the point across, relates to the $1.3 million your department expended and the disparity between the two figures is over $1 million, with all programs needing funding.
I go back to asking if a (interpretation ends) supplementary bill (interpretation) will be forthcoming from your department.
There is disparity between the two figures, with the difference of over $1 million, and upon cognizance of that fact, the figure jumps up to a difference of over $2 million, yet your documentation only lists the earlier discrepancy.
Will you be submitting a supplementary appropriation request?
The earlier answer that we heard was legal services was moved up to headquarters.
That’s where you see the over $1 million increment in CFS Headquarters.
That’s the earlier answer that we got.
If the minister would like to elaborate or add onto that, Minister Mike.
We have made a thorough review of our budgets this year, 2015-16, and looked at our expenditures in the last two years since we started this department.
What we looked at in the Adult Support Services is that the spending patterns were so low and the costs that we have there are just more the travel and training. We know that in the last three years, likely, the costs will be moderate and that’s the reason why, when there’s a big budget in the line, we have to move it properly, such as moving the legal services into other areas in the headquarters.
I’m sure the member’s question, if we have to come up and ask for a supplementary in adult services, at this point, the way we see it, it’s not likely that we will be looking for a supplementary under Adult Support Services.
Let me try this tack to see if I can understand.
For the 2015-16 budget estimates, all the way down the page on page 137 of the 2015-16 documents, it seems to me that they’re just applicable due to the start-up costs as this department was being created.
To me, they could qualify as meaningless because the 2016-17 estimates are more a reflection of your actual costs. Obviously, there was a reorganization of the department over a two- or three-year period.
Do I understand it correctly?
Yes, you understand it correctly.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you very much. (interpretation ends) Branch Summary. Children and Family Services.
This will be brief, as I want to understand this matter, although I partially grasp the issue.
You stated that your department is developing plans related to children and family services using only the western counselling methods, without any awareness of traditional Inuit methods.
Within your business plan, a matter we keep wanting included as Inuit, which our people really want repatriated, is our traditional counselling methods.
This is very paternalistic as families are now handcuffed by social services.
They have bound our hands by disallowing Inuit the ability to discipline our own children. As we attempt to correct our children’s behaviour, if the worker finds out we spanked our children or we are reported, even as the father disciplining their child according to tradition, the child is apprehended.
That seems to be the goal here.
Perhaps, in your business plan, I request a correction about the part about disciplining our children and reprimanding them.
Will you be dealing with that issue in your business plan or are we going to be using the western way of dealing with social issues? Are we going to be using that to eternity?
Please provide me with clarification on that.
I would like to ask exactly where the member’s question is coming from. If the member can elaborate on the page number so that we can respond.
My colleague, Joe Enook, asked this question about the Department of Family Services to make sure that you are planning things correctly along the lines of the Inuit way.
I am concerned about the fact that we have been handcuffed by the Department of Family Services.
We’re not thinking about money, but this has to be included.
If I slap my child, then my child would be apprehended. That is not right. It’s the law in Nunavut.
While you’re planning to include Inuit ways, I would like this to be included in your planning for 2016-17 so that we can improve Inuit lives, not through the Qallunaat way.
I’m not even talking about money. You said that you’re planning this for all of Nunavut to include the Inuit ways.
In your business plan, can this also be considered?
I hope you understand what I’m saying, Mr. Minister. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The different groups that the Department of Family Services works with in and out of Nunavut are all affected by what we’re talking about.
With regard to what my colleague is talking about, the Department of Family Services works with these different groups to see how we can include that. That’s what we do.
In our plans and following what Mr. Okalik and Mr. Enook were asking about, I can only respond the same way as I responded to the other two that counselling is part of that as well.
My deputy minister can expand on my response.
The Department of Family Services will never institute a plan related to our children and whether or not spanking is allowed. Any kind of disciplinary violence will not be included.
However, what we will plan is how to end the cycle of violence, especially towards our children.
Further, the inclusion of Inuit who are well versed in counselling is something we support and we urge them to get involved prior to the government stepping in.
If a social worker is apprised of an incident or if they learn about it, since it is part of the law today, they have to follow the regulations since the western ideal is never to inflict violence on children or youth.
No citizen should experience violence. The corporate position is that we will never include that in any plan.
I now stop my fight against this as the departmental overlords will never respond to this issue, so I will leave it at that.
However, at a future point, I will endeavour to once again raise the issue, but I am very regretful that this government denigrates the Inuit traditions and will never recognize it.
That is all I have left.
Family Services. Children and Family Services.
Total Operations and Maintenance, to be Voted. $59,205,000.
Before we continue on to the next page, which is D-6, we will take a 15-minute break.
>>Committee recessed at 17:57 and resumed at 18:21
I would now like to call the committee meeting back to order.
Members, before we proceed, I have a brief statement about asking questions that have already been asked.
As per the guidelines in our rules in regard to questions to ministers, I will exercise my discretion as your Chair and I will not allow questions that have already been asked. I ask members to be aware of the questions being asked of the minister so that you won’t repeat them.
Branch Summary. Family Services.
Career Development.
The first question I want to ask is related to students attending post-secondary institutions.
There are two funding programs specific to students, with one being a loan that is contingent on the person returning to Nunavut to work, including non-Inuit who receive this assistance, and the loan is forgiven when they return to work in Nunavut.
When are the funds released to the students who are taking post-secondary courses in the south?
I would like to ask what page that is on.
What kinds of students are you asking about?
Mr. Okalik (interpretation): Maybe I’ll speak in English. (interpretation ends) From what I understand, under FANS, there are various programs in place.
There are forgivable loans that are provided to non-beneficiary students and other forms provided to Inuit students.
I want to know when those forgivable loans that are going into post-secondary institutions down south are given to the student.
Our official will explain how the budget was made.
Those forgivable loans given to students studying outside the territory can also be collected as long as they work, they stay in Nunavut for a certain number of months and years.
There’s a remission of loans that’s allowed for them to be applied as well.