EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
The last time, that was one, as I say, of the drawbacks where there was…. It seemed like there was a piece of legislation that was all drafted by employees of the government without any input from anyone on it, really.
Like I said, all over the territory the communities that I’ve visited, from as far west as Cambridge Bay to over here and throughout the Kivalliq, were telling me that they wanted to have input and they didn’t feel that they had that opportunity to have input.
In fact I remember talking to teachers and educators that were told that they couldn’t say anything about it.
So, just having people that work for the department on there would be a concern of mine given what’s happened in the past, where employees have been pretty much told to keep their mouths shut from saying anything about the education act.
So, that’s one of the reasons why I mentioned that and I think if we want to see it come ahead, then come ahead in a positive manner.
Everyone here talked about what an important thing that would be for this government to put forward, and that would be a huge step in ensuring that that does happen.
I thank the minister for reconsidering that.
On the district education authorities, the minister said yesterday, and I had a look at the Hansard, that he was going to have a meeting with all the district education authorities in Nunavut, and I’m not sure how.
I would just ask for clarification if the minister is planning on bringing representatives from all the district education authorities to one location for a meeting? Or, is he planning on going around and meeting with them individually?
The member makes some good points about the consultative process that was in place on the other act.
There has been some good work done by the previous Minister of Education for the Government of Nunavut, as well as the committee of the House, at that time.
And, I think we’ll be able to pick up some of those pieces and move forward.
Part of my role I see this fall, as I announced earlier and as the member has said is in the Hansard, is about meeting with the different chairs of the education councils and authorities.
My plan would be this fall to hold different meetings.
For example, I would go to Baker Lake or Rankin Inlet and invite the Kivalliq district education authority chairs to join me to discuss some of the issues around the education act, education in general, and so on.
We would do the same thing in Kitikmeot as well as here in the Qikiqtani region of Nunavut.
That in itself would probably be a bit easier on the budget of the department, but it would probably be easier to facilitate and deal with the issues of each region as opposed to having everyone in the room talking about the different issues.
So, that would be the idea, not to bring everyone into one room but to be able to actually go out of the department with some of my senior people and meet with the different chairs of the district education authorities, discuss some of the common concerns that they have, and deal with some of the issues that had come up in the previous act.
Chairman: “Qujannamiik,” Minister. Mr. Tootoo.
Is the minister planning….
I think it was the last education forum, or whatever that we held here maybe three, four years ago in December, which brought in all of the district education authority representatives from all over the territory.
One of the recommendations that body came up with at the time…. One of the strong advocates and persons for that at the time was the late Mr. Harvey who was the mister chairman for the Kugluktuk District Education Authority. He was very adamant at the time that they felt, as did other chairs, they had nowhere to turn, no way of communicating with each other or helping each other out.
In the past the divisional boards of education were there for support, for them to be able to go and seek advice from the department, and that is gone now.
I am just wondering if there are any plans they are looking at for assisting the district education authorities to be able to network and communicate and work cooperatively with each other on similar issues.
I wonder if it would be a regional or a territorial basis.
I guess one of the early indications in the other act that we are working on was a concern from the district education authorities after the integration, the amalgamation, and the disbandment of the regional education boards.
A lot of the district education authorities we are still…. Because of the act that we were running under from the Northwest Territories…. We are still acting on the democracies of that act in a different role because you did not have the regional boards, and that caused some concerns.
The department has district education authority employees, for example, in each region, employees that are targeted and tasked and that is their job, to be collaborating with the district education authorities. And, that would give us an opportunity with the department to work on some of the issues of education that Mr. Harvey had talked about.
At the same time, the new education act should reflect the realities of the year 2004 and on where there are no education boards in place.
I think that in itself, then, would be able to facilitate some of the communication issues that we just talked about, as well as what Mr. Tootoo has raised.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, I would like to know how the policy is on the writing system.
It was a concern of the first Assembly. It was getting confusing at that time on which they would be using.
I would like to ask how the policy is.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Curley. Mr. Minister.
I had some discussions on the issue around standardization, or the policy around the standardization, and the usage of Inuktitut.
I believe the Minister of the Department of Culture, Language, Elders and Youth, for example, will be giving a statement tomorrow on the language itself and some of the uses.
Indeed, as minister responsible for the Department of Education I met with the language commissioner very shortly after my appointment to talk about the standardization process.
I guess the short answer would be, if the Government of Nunavut follows the standardization, the standard practice of writing in Inuktitut that is in the orthography that is in place right now….
There are some issues around the different naming of communities, locations, as a standard and that we dealt with in the cabinet, for example, as it is in Inuinnaqtun.
And so that is the type of thing that is in place.
The standard orthography that has been produced is what we are using.
Using “qa” and so on, using the final “naaniit” final, that is the standard that is in place.
However, there are issues around the different ways certain words and phrases and terms were used in different parts of Nunavut, for example, in the Kitikmeot when we are talking about some of the ways, the old way of writing in Inuinnaqtun.
There has been some movement by the government to accept what the elders have asked for in those ridings.
So, they wouldn’t follow the original, or the standard, orthography, but they would be there using “Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit” to implement what the elders have asked for in those communities.
So, I hope that helps the member’s question.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): Yes, that is going to be a lot of help.
At times it was getting confusing at the first Assembly.
We would like to keep the writing system, especially syllabics, because they are in the computer, and we have here now…. And, if we…. It would be the same in Kitikmeot that we have to protect the writing system.
It should be in the policy within the school system because our culture will disappear if we don’t have a system of writing.
And at the last Assembly there was confusion when they wanted to standardize the Inuktitut writing system.
And think, if we are going to standardize syllabics, even though our dialects are different, our dialects differ, like Nattilimmiutaq, Pallirmiut, we cannot lose our dialects.
Like how in English you have different dialects as well, but it is standardized.
If we do have a policy…. We could do better to have a policy.
I feel that our lives will continue, and this is good to hear.
Like for the first Assembly, I would like that the minister make sure that this is being followed.
We have to ask the elders at times; periodically you should utilize the elders and also your committee.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Curley.
There has been a lot of debate over the past several years on how we write Inuktitut or Inuinnaqtun.
Just for a quick example, when Mr. Arvaluk at the time approached the subject, early in April 1999, he threw out a rhetorical question at that time. He said: should we continue to use the syllabics or should we go completely to Roman orthography?
I remember the debate or the question really well.
And, the overwhelming response from communities where syllabics are used: we want to keep writing in syllabics.
At the same time, we don’t want to interfere, for example, with the western Arctic, with communities that are using Inuinnaqtun or Roman orthography.
And, I don’t think this government or myself as the minister would wade into that debate and try to change something.
What I’m prepared to be doing, and I said it in the House a few times now, is I’ll be introducing what we call the language of instruction model.
There are three models under the language of instruction: there is the early immersion model; the qulliq model; and the dual language model.
Each individual district education authority will have an opportunity on what model they pick.
That will itself deal with some of the issues around language and the way we do our language.
That in itself would be a policy, Mr. Chairman, so the member would be correct, and we wouldn’t be dealing with that at the same time.
Also, on that same debate, and where the member is correct…. For example, I know, myself, just last Sunday when me and the member Mr. Simailak were in church, I was able to sing some of the hymns that were present because they are wrote in Roman orthography.
They were also in syllabics, in Inuktitut, and in Roman orthography, and I could follow along and sing the song because I could read the Roman orthography.
That in itself is one of the beauties and, I think, one of the good things that you could see that would be expeditious about using Inuinnaqtun.
However, if you have the facility in syllabics, it’s just as easy, and it shouldn’t be weighed one better than the other. The three language-of-instruction models, the qulliq model, and the early immersion model, as well as the dual language model, will enhance, and would be able to facilitate the usage that Mr. Curley is talking about.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): Thank you very much for that explanation.
Because they complement one another. You can’t say that syllabics or orthography is better than the other because I think they compliment one another. I think that way, well, we can all learn how to write orthography or syllabics.
We can all change.
The Greenlanders and Labradorians use the orthography system.
I think it would be less confusing if we standardized it.
A lot of us, when we were dealing with the education act…. There were some people that were saying they would like to just teach them in Inuktitut or to have Inuktitut as the language of instruction.
I would like to tell the minister and his staff that we have to learn English because it’s a global language and it would strengthen our culture and our lifestyle.
For those of us who still have our culture and for those of us who have our identity, I think a lot of the people out there can say that it has given us more strength.
That’s why I say that they complement one another.
Those individuals who are in an identity crisis, especially our youth who drop out of school or who are unemployed…. I think that we have to focus on those groups.
If you’re going to be talking to the parents of these kids…. Because, of course, we’re going to leave our children behind. They’re going to grow up and they’re going to have to be able to cope with the world out there.
It’s very important that the youth be bilingual and learn both English and Inuktitut. I think that one should not overrule the other.
I am in agreement with the member.
I think that when you look at Inuktitut, and understand how complex and how beautiful the language really is…. I’ll just give you an example, as a Qallunaaq: in English, when I say pretty, or beautiful….
I could use that expression to describe you, Mr. Chairman.
I could say you are beautiful, you are good , you are a wonderful.
Chairman: Wait, wait, wait!
I’m not pretty. Okay, go ahead.
Or, I could describe you as pretty, for example.
In Inuktitut, depending on who you are speaking about or to, you would use different words.
For example, if I’m talking about outside and the land, in English, I could say a beautiful sunset, a pretty sunset, a beautiful hill.
I could use the same beautiful for a person, or a dog, or a house.
In Inuktitut, that would be kind of goofy to do that.
For example, if I was outside and I saw a beautiful sunset I would say “kajjaanaqtuq,” it is beautiful, “kajjaanaqtuq sila.”
In English I would just say beautiful or good. I can only use different words to you.
If I saw a beautiful-looking woman or man, for example, I wouldn’t be able to say…. Yes, in English I would say, she is really handsome, she’s really good looking, or pretty.
In Inuktitut you would use the word “piujuq” for a human being, or “inuktiava,” or something like that.
“Inuqangittuq.”
“Tukiqanngittuq.”
You could use the word “kajjaana” for that for outside.
It is the same thing when you look at the different words being used, like “nangiannaqtuq,” or “aliasuktuq,” “aliasuktuq” to me, if I am scared of you or frightened of you. That is what I would say.
I would use the same words, the phraseology, if I am afraid of a spirit or a demon.
In Inuktitut it is such a wonderful language. You would be able to say, “atsualu aliasuktualuujunga igvingmi,” which would be kind of goofy because you are not a spirit, you are not a “tuungaq.”
But in English I would just say, I am frightened, I am scared.
So, “nangiannaqtuq.”
There is different words to be used.
I think it would be a shame if we lost that.
I think the member is correct.
We need to be able to implement a bilingual policy, dual-language policy.
There is no reason why children growing up in Nunavut cannot be bilingual.
I believe the language of instruction model that we are in the process of unveiling…. And, we have had a lot of consultation on those two models, the earlier version models, the qulliq model and the dual language model.
I am quite excited about that, not only as a parent but as a person who lives in Nunavut.
“Qujannamiik, Iksivautaaq.”
We do get a little scary sometimes, even though you are not a demon.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): Thank you. I am sure that you will give the proper direction to your staff.
I think it is okay if you don’t use your language skills.
When you mentioned a bit about the demons…. I have always wanted to know about Voice of Wicca.
Is it only here in Iqaluit that we are using that, or was it in all of Nunavut?
Was that started by the teachers?
First of all I would like to get a response to that.
Chairman (interpretation): Mr. Picco.
The member is referring to, I believe it was, an article that was in one of the local papers about some students, some teenagers who were involved in different practices. The newspaper pointed out some of the students were involved in the practice of wicca.
Wicca is a terminology word to describe some of the practices of witchcraft.
In the article I believe it talked about the good power of witchcraft and dark side of witchcraft.
It is not taught in schools. It is something that children probably saw on TV, or read in magazines, and so on.
I can say I think we are at fair contradictions.
It is not something that is being facilitated by teachers in a classroom.
I think it is something that had just come about in the way we are living today, in the year 2004.
We are on policy and planning on page G-7.
If we can keep to the subject, Mr. Curley.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): It is not a policy item, I was just curious about it.
The teachers don’t teach that kind of subject, do they?
To the best of my knowledge, things like wicca and so on, aren’t taught.
There may be some teaching instruction in generalities around different religious practices and so on, but it is not a course, I can say to the best of my knowledge.
And neither should it be taught in the schools.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): What kind of policy do you have on religion and saying Lord’s Prayer in an educational environment?
We do say the opening prayer here.
Is that a policy of the Department of Education, or is it under the authority of the district education authority?
The Member makes a good point.
Under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, set out by and subject to reasonable limits….
In Nunavut we have a public school system. It’s not a parochial or religious school system.
So, public denomination schools may provide religious instruction and may conduct religious exercises that reflect religious values for the majority of the ratepayers or the citizens in that given area.
Religious instruction may be provided or conducted in a manner that is respectable of territorial religious values, of all students.
So, for example, here in Iqaluit we have enrolments of different students of different religious denominations and values.
You have to respect that in a public school system.
If we were running a Catholic school system, then respecting the Catholic school system they would have mass and so on, and those things would be permitted.
In a public school system they may have prayers if that’s what the majority in a position wanted, and you would try to be conducive and facilitate whatever the best wishes are within that public school system.
Like any other public school system in the country, you wouldn’t do anything….
We don’t do anything in Nunavut to take away someone’s Charter of Rights or Freedoms under the federal statute.
When we were going to school, (interpretation ends) the Catholic priest came, the Anglican priest, and they taught us.
Now they teach sex education and it’s little wonder why we have young teenagers getting pregnant nowadays.
They pass out condoms now. I think we need to look into the system once again.
(Interpretation.) Thank you. Mr. Curley, do you have any other questions?
I’ll leave it at that. That’s it for now.
We’ll go back to G-7.
Chairman: G-8. Education branch summary. Corporate services, Total, operations and maintenance: $2,065,000.
Chairman: G-10.
Education branch summary. Income support. Total, operations and maintenance: $2,064,000.
Chairman: G-11. Education branch summary. Adult learning and post-secondary services.
Total, operations and maintenance: $22,359,000. Agreed?
I wonder if the minister could give us a bit more information on the adult learning strategies that Bruce Rigby is working on for the last few months.
Could he update us on that, please.
Mr. Rigby, who is a well known resident of Nunavut, and educator and all around nice person, has been working on the adult learning strategy or the ALS for the Department of Education.
The learning strategy will address all adult training needs and requirements for Nunavut for the next 20 years.
That in itself is quite a goal.
The strategy is focusing on different sectors of the Nunavut economy such as mining, fisheries, tourism, and business.
The first round of consultations on the learning strategy has been completed.
A discussion document was released before the end of the last Legislative Assembly and they had strategic stakeholder meetings. And, focus groups are being planned and some have actually taken place.
The member may recall I also attended a meeting in Cambridge Bay. We were looking at some of these issues.
The Nunavut Literacy Association and Kim Crockatt and some other groups have had some excellent input on the adult learning strategy discussion paper which is out there, making some good comments on some of the issues that have been raised.
So, the adult learning strategy is work coming forward: a discussion paper has been released; we are soliciting input from different stakeholders and groups.
The feedback has been great. There has been some pros as well as some cons on the strategy itself and on the strategy paper, but that is what you would want in the strategy paper or discussion paper, to elicit comments and so on.
So, that is occurring.
Chairman: “Qujannamiik,” Minister.
Could the minister indicate when we will be seeing some results of the work that Mr. Rigby has been doing basically over the last four months, five months. Can you give us an indication, please?
Chairman: I am sorry.
What we have seen, and I think the members would agree, is that a lot of the post-secondary training that has been delivered has been fragmented.
The adult learning strategy will be bringing together the different components about learning.
I would hope to be in a position in October to be able to bring something firm to the members and to table in the Assembly for further movement.
The adult learning strategy is at a parallel track, a parallel course with what we are doing on the prevocational training side, that is carpenters, electricians, and so on. So, we would be in a position, I would hope, in October to be able to say this is where we are going with the prevocational and the adult learning side.
The adult learning strategy is also inclusive of ABE or the adult basic education programs that are put in place for a lot of our students.
So, it is quite multi-faceted and multi-tasked.
So, the short answer would be: in sometime in October I would be in a position, I would hope, to be able to put something before the House and then have more discussions and to wrap up the strategy.
Now that you mention that, we should find ways to get our kids in school, keep in school right from kindergarten through to grade 12 and then hopefully into post-secondary. But, we seem to be directing a lot of money at adults who have dropped out of school early, whether it is in grade 3, or grade 10, or whatever grade you dropped out.
I am wondering if the minister of the department has calculated what the long-term cost is of a student, on the government, who drops out of school like in grade 8 or 9. Has that calculation ever been done?
Chairman: “Qujannamiik,” Mr. Peterson.
When, shortly after being appointed as minister, I was meeting with my senior officials, one of the answers that I wanted to find and move forward on was how to address the issue that the member is just discussing, the very high dropout rate and what would be the social, the economic effect of that in Nunavut.
I do not have any firm numbers on that.
I believe not until they tell us that those costs are enormous when we have, for every 100 children entering Kindergarten, only 25 actually graduate grade 12.
So many more students will not graduate grade 12. They will be 23 or 24 and go back into the education system.
That is why the makeup of the students in Nunavut is considerably different than what we see in the south.
We usually have someone graduating grade 12, 16 or 17 years old, and going automatically to college or university.
The majority of our students in college and university are older students.
Many of them have children. They are in common-law relationships or married, and there is a different makeup.
Many of them have to go, as the member said, through basic upgrading programs to be able to get into a college program because of that drop-out rate.
So, one of the things we’d like to be able to do, and I did a statement in the House last week, is work toward cutting that rate, the K–12 dropout rate, and increasing on the other side, the post-secondary side, some of the graduates.
I believe that we need to lay the ground work for that now and to start working on that, so that in three and four years we’ll actually see that rate start to come down.
But, that is going to be an ongoing process.