EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
As the member is aware, if you’re short on material, it’s very expensive to fly it in, so it is better to bring additional materials.
These kinds of issues are the ones that have given me quite a number of headaches over the years and that is why the housing corporation is proceeding with its new contracting in the supply, ship, and erect method whereby the contractor will be doing their own material take-offs and will be responsible for all aspects of material, supply, and handling.
They have expertise in doing these types of projects. They don’t necessarily have the same capacity challenges that, as government officials, we’re sometimes faced with and we are transferring that responsibility to our contractors.
Thank you for that answer because one of the things that the standing committee has been asking for, for a number of years or at least since the Office of Auditor General did their report, was a complete detailed list of what materials are still in the communities from the Nunavut Housing Trust.
If the program ran for five years at 20 percent over-purchase, as Mr. Barriault said, that would be 100 percent.
So in 25 communities across the territory, there should be one unit being able to be constructed with parts missing. With a price tag of $500,000 in 25 communities, that’s $12.5 million worth of bits and pieces out there across the territory.
Could the minister provide us with how much material is still out there or provide us with a detailed accounting of what is purchased out there?
Again, I don’t know, I think, in terms of the way things go up the chain in terms of reporting. We have Mr. Peterson telling us that the financial accounts are put in for the territory on time, yet we can’t account for that $12.5 million worth of merchandise. It hasn’t been written off, so it’s floating around there somewhere in someone’s balance sheet.
I don’t know where that is and we haven’t been directed as to where that is.
Mr. Barriault can respond to that question in detail.
Well, firstly, I did not say 20 percent. There definitely are some additional materials ordered to ensure that you have sufficient and to allow for wastage and damages, but not necessarily 20 percent.
However, I can’t really comment on some of the practices of the past. This occurred while I wasn’t there to oversee them and we realize that they have caused us a number of problems over the years.
For some materials, we did receive more than we needed. For other materials, we received less than we needed. Again, that’s part of the reason why we are going to a supply, ship, and erect method of contracting rather than us providing materials separately.
There was material leftover in all communities and, as all of the other Nunavut Housing Trust and economic action plan houses were being completed, this material was used for resupplying other materials that were damaged and short, and as well, to meet the needs of our local housing organizations.
We’re still in the process of doing the major clean-up as a lot of the projects are only now reaching completion. There are materials in there that are of no use to the housing corporation which we will have to dispose of.
There is material which will be of very good use from a maintenance perspective for the housing corporation.
We have lots of insulation here in Iqaluit if you’re looking for some. We have a variety of things in different communities.
At this point, there is not sufficient material to build another house in any community.
Mostly it’s on the architectural side or else even on the plumbing side. We may have boxes of fittings extra and some of these things will be a lifetime supply for some of our local housing associations, so we don’t want to burden them with what would effectively be dead stock taking over their limited warehouse space.
It’s a long-term process to work through because it does involve taking a lot of time and as you’re emptying sea cans full of material, you need somewhere to put that material and sort it.
So as a pilot project, we have been emptying all of the sea cans and organizing the materials in Iqaluit in the old Iqaluit Housing Authority warehouse. We’re developing a process that will then expand to all of our communities.
Hopefully over the summer months, we will be able to complete most of them.
Part of what we’re doing as we’re identifying the stock and putting it into inventory is that the material is being costed and it is being tracked as part of our inventory system.
It does remain on balance sheets and the material remains accounted for. Material was accounted for originally when it was purchased and any material that we do retain with our local housing associations are being accounted for if they’re being entered into their stock inventory.
One thing we have been told over the past is that there are about a thousand sea cans across the territory at a price of $3,000. We were also assured that none of these sea cans are leased, so they won’t be going back and they are owned by the housing corporation.
We have also been assured that individuals are able to purchase them and talk to the local housing authority.
Yet, in the three communities of the High Arctic, I have a couple of schools that are in dire need of storage space and have been asking to purchase these and have been told that they’re not able to.
There are a couple of local businesses that would like to purchase them as well, but they have been told the same thing and also a couple of local residents who would like to use them for storage as well.
Could the minister clarify what the process is for purchasing these and maybe helping infuse $3 million worth of money into the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s budget?
As the minister responsible for the housing corporation, I do not get into that level of detail, but I’ll have Mr. Barriault respond to that question.
As a number of members have mentioned over the years, we do have limited storage space and warehousing in our communities, and that’s something that we’re trying to address in the long term.
In the short term, these sea cans are very good storage space for cold storage that we can use.
The first need that we’re meeting in the disposition of the sea cans is our own need. We will first identify what our requirements of our local housing organizations are, and then from there, in keeping with the GN practices of surplus in materials, we will offer them to GN departments, including schools and their needs, for sale, again, and then after meeting the government’s needs, they will be made available to the general public.
We will be rolling this out, as I stated in my earlier answer, as we free up the containers by emptying the material and disposing of it whether for our own use or to the dump or for sale.
As sea cans become available, we will dispose of them in that order, but please have any requests from any of your constituents directed to the Cape Dorset district office and likewise, for other members, to the regional office of the Nunavut Housing Corporation. (interpretation) Thank you.
I do have more questions, but maybe at this time, I’ll let other members ask.
Chairman: Mr. Elliott, I wasn’t paying attention.
Can you repeat, please.
I said that I do have more questions, but I’ll let other members ask questions, and then you can get back to me after they’ve had a chance.
That’s very kind of you.
I do have quite a list and I appreciate your understanding. (interpretation) I will proceed.
Ms. Ugyuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) On NHC-12, the second bullet on this page says, “Develop a plan to address LHO infrastructure needs. Status: In process, NHC has begun the evaluation of the infrastructure needs of LHOs across all three Districts.”
For Gjoa Haven and Taloyoak, the LHOs were run by the hamlet and in the last few years, they have been given back to the local housing authorities.
I have said it before that they have poor working conditions in those two communities.
I would like an update on if they plan to visit the Gjoa Haven and Taloyoak local housing authorities. The need was they needed heated workplaces and workshops.
All small communities were not ready for ten or more new units in each community when all of these houses were built.
If the member can clarify her question, is she speaking specifically about warehouses or houses?
Ms. Ugyuk, can you clarify your question?
The local housing organization offices and workplaces are very small and very old.
Can you look into that?
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Ms. Ugyuk. (interpretation ends) Does that clarify, Minister Taptuna?
Mr. Chairman, there is a planned assessment to be done in all communities of the offices, warehouses, and workshops.
Once that assessment is done, we will try and consider or find a way to put it in the capital plan.
It is documented here that there are three local housing authorities. (interpretation ends) Three local housing authorities across all three districts in the Kitikmeot district, particularly Gjoa Haven and Taloyoak, have the oldest shops.
I would just like to stress that out. Last year, I brought up the need for heated workshops.
From the sources I got, the workshops in Arctic Bay were very different from Taloyoak and Gjoa Haven.
I just hope they standardize what a workshop has to be for safety concerns and stuff like that.
Mr. Chairman, the work is ongoing in assessing office space and warehousing in the communities.
Once that assessment is done, we will certainly try and find a way to put it in the capital plan.
Since I became an MLA, I have been stressing the fact that there is a lack of housing.
In Taloyoak, the teachers have a shortage of housing. The teachers are retiring and the teachers and the probation officer have a shortage of housing.
Even though there is a potential for a position, they don’t have housing in Taloyoak.
In Gjoa Haven, the matter is being looked into.
The fact is that there is shortage of housing for staff, especially for the education department. In Taloyoak, when GN workers have shortage of housing, it is embarrassing in a way because they have no place to live. So can you look into these issues to ensure that staff housing is available?
Mr. Chairman, if I can, I’ll have Mr. Barriault respond to it in detail.
The Nunavut Housing Corporation is aware that there is a shortage of housing in general and staff housing as well, in particular, in a number of communities. We work with our colleagues at the Department of Human Resources in terms of identifying government priorities for recruitment and retention purposes, as the housing corporation is effectively the delivery agent, but we do work with all of our departmental colleagues to try to assess their needs and get that information and to prioritize the funding that we do obtain.
As part of this process, in fact, as you mentioned school teachers, I met on Friday of last week with all of the regional school operations staff and the Department of Education officials discussing the very topic of staff housing supply for teachers.
So we have some good communications and dialogue happening in terms of identifying where their pressures and priorities and needs are, and we’re all committed to working together to find solutions for this critical need.
I will have a question related to what Mr. Curley was speaking to yesterday about private homeowners.
Homeowners have provided a lot of assistance and we know this. As an example, they have probably provided more assistance than CMHC here in Nunavut.
Private homeowners assist people without houses as well as those people awaiting units.
Back in the day, perhaps about 20 years ago, private homeownership was less stressful since the cost of living was bearable.
This clock is fast.
Now, I have heard that if I were to have a private home or Mr. Chairman, if you owned a home, then this home either you or I own would be (interpretation ends) equal to two public units. (interpretation) That is the approximation given to these homes owned privately.
Is there any consideration given to this value of private homes?
I believe the benefit private homeowners provide is already well known. They really assist the housing associations as well as the housing corporation, especially in assisting homeless people where these homes become overcrowded.
This matter (interpretation ends) on a serious note (interpretation) requires that we look at providing assistance to the homeowners.
Will this be taken into consideration?
Mr. Chairman, through this program, we do our best to assist people out there who put in applications.
Mr. Chairman, last year, there were 29 new homeowners who were approved either to buy or build their home through our homeownership assistance programs.
There were 94 homeowners needing oil tank replacements. We do try and assist with the budget allocated to us and, for the most part, there are quite a number of people who are assisted in this.
Past homeowners from the original homeownership programs, perhaps 20 or 30 years ago, face extremely high maintenance costs for their homes today and more homeowners are starting to sell their homes. Sometimes homeowners have no option but to lease or even sell their homes to contractors working in their communities.
I believe this to be the case, although I can’t provide proof this is happening.
That seems to be the case, even with our severe housing shortage in Nunavut.
Does the Nunavut Housing Corporation occasionally purchase private homes from their owners and convert them into public housing units?  When the homeowner is deluged by bills and overwhelmed, this is entirely understandable, especially when the homeowner previously held a job and has retired.
This is also the case for homeowners with jobs who face difficulty with their various bills due to the continual rise in the cost of living index, especially here in Nunavut.
Does the Nunavut Housing Corporation periodically purchase private homes from their owners to accommodate the need for public housing?
Mr. Chairman, I know that in the past, there were more people who were assisted in the early days, but as the cost of living went up, so did the cost of owning a home.
Mr. Chairman, there are a lot of variables and factors that create some of these situations where homeowners have to eventually sell their homes or board them up.
There are a number of reasons for that and in most cases, it’s usually because the homeowner has lost a job or moved to a different location or elsewhere. In the past, we have purchased at times from the homeowners who were assisted through the housing corporation.
This question will likely be my last as my colleagues have questions also and I want them to have the opportunity to do so, obviously.
With respect to the first issue I spoke to, the minister is aware, as are most of the people here, of the extreme high costs which seem to be getting higher still.
At the time when this government has begun working on the Poverty Reduction Strategy, this is to try to reduce the amount of poverty faced by our people and for that, I thank the government. This is good news.
I certainly hope that the Nunavut Housing Corporation will prepare a plan for private homeowners in the future to set out a fund in the new budget for consideration of this initiative. Our private homeowners provide a lot of assistance to their communities.
As per my previous comments, I believe they provide more assistance than even the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation when it comes to homeownership.
I would like the corporation to deliberate on this matter and to consider our private homeowners. Will the corporation take this idea into consideration?
Since the homeowners are essential and alleviate our housing shortage, will we be looking at assisting them in the future or even now?
Mr. Chairman, our annual budget for assisting homeowners is approximately $4 million per year and that’s done through criteria and application process, and yes, Mr. Chairman, we do our best to assist.
Last year, I believe there were 280 applications that came through to the Nunavut Housing Corporation for assistance.
As the member is well aware, we reviewed the rent scale and made some changes to the rent scale to enable some of these younger people to be able to save money and enable them to eventually purchase a home.
Mr. Chairman, with the budget allocated to us, it is very difficult sometimes and at the housing corporation, we do our best to assist as many as possible.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Taptuna. At this time, we have Mr. Rumbolt.
I have a few questions related to rent collections.
Before I do, I would just like to state that I think TROs in our communities have one of the toughest jobs in Nunavut. Collecting rent from people when they’re trying to feed their families is no easy task.
I’m looking at the tabled document, the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s annual report for 2011-12. On page 19, there is a comparison chart between 2010-11 and 2011-12 and it shows that a number of communities showed a significant increase in the amount of rents collected from one year to the next. I’m just wondering: is there any particular reason why some communities are collecting more rent?
Is it a directive from the housing corporation or is it just LHOs putting more effort into collecting rent?
Mr. Chairman, the Nunavut Housing Corporation has been assisting the LHOs in collecting arrears and some communities have improved.
I believe that in the past year, the collection rate went up from 80 percent to 84 percent.
As time continues, with more training and ability for the tenant relations officers to speak to people and find ways or a process to collect rental arrears, that is improving year to year.
As I stated, that report is for 2011-12 and it showed that the amount of collections went up. Can we expect a similar trend for this year?
Mr. Chairman, with a small population, the variables go up and down. It does make a big impact if we lose 150 jobs in the Kitikmeot, as we did last year when the Hope Bay operations went down. That impacted rent collection, as would any small population like that.
Hopefully the economy will improve.
Once that improves, we usually see an increase in rental arrears collected.
I wonder if the minister can update us today on how many dollars are owed to the Nunavut Housing Corporation in rental arrears to date.
In the fiscal year 2012, arrears amounted to $20,955,000.
Are these rental arrears still increasing or are we seeing a decrease in the total amount that is owed to the housing corporation?
Mr. Chairman, with your permission, I would like to have Ms. Kimball respond to that question in detail.
With the completion of the NHT and CEAP units, the amount of rent that is being assessed has increased. The arrears have increased, but as a percentage of the rent being assessed, the arrears are either staying the same or going down.
We won’t have the final number, though, until the audit occurs and things can surface in the audit.
First, what we get is internal reporting unaudited.
So I can’t say with certainty, but from what we’re seeing, I would expect it to stay the same as a percentage or increase as a percentage collection.
We are taking a number of initiatives to improve the rent scale. With changes to the rent scale and only assessing primary tenants, we are hoping that will improve the collectability of the rents.
As well, we have a first draft of collection policy being developed. It’s now being circulated amongst NHC and will soon be circulated amongst LHOs for their feedback.
That will hopefully give more structure and support for the TROs because I do agree that that is one of the hardest jobs out there.
We’re trying to make sure that we’re taking some of the harder elements of that role and standardizing it so that the TROs can’t be held personally accountable. We’re taking some of that out of their hands to make it easier for them.
With the new changes coming to the rent scale program and you mentioned that most people’s rent will probably decrease, has your department considered the financial impact that will have on the housing corporation’s budget?
The decrease in the rental collection is approximately $2 million.
With the decrease by $2 million, how is that going to affect your budgeting process for the year? Does the housing corporation have enough funds to cover these kinds of expenses?
Mr. Chairman, it’s one of those investments we made in people. We decided that as a government. We want to see the $36 million in income support that does leave the government coffers for income support decrease in a year or two and enable our people in public housing to taking the distance and send them out for them to go out and get work.
Usually, in most cases, you have heard for a long time that there are a lot of people out there who do want to work and once they get employment and assessed for rent, they usually resign from their position because the amount of rent goes from zero or from $60 a month to a certain number after.
Gaining employment has been a major deterrent for folks out there to seek permanent employment.
Hopefully with this investment the government has made, we will see the number of income support go down and enable some of the younger people to actually save money and eventually purchase a home.
As the member is well aware, in the housing corporation, this is exactly what we’re trying to do, enable people out there through the investment that the government has decided to make, and hopefully we will see the results in a year or two.
I think we have some refreshments, so if we can take a 15-minute break. We will be coming right back to the House at 10:16 or thereabouts.
At this time, I think the members wish to stand up and take a break.
Once we come back, we will have Mr. Curley ask questions.
>>Committee recessed at 10:04 and resumed 10:23
We can continue from where we left off before the break.
At this time, I have Mr. Curley.
I want to ask several questions, specifically on three issues.
The first question relates to a question my colleague asked regarding buildings and write-offs of certain facilities that the finance minister spoke about during our committee meeting.
These facilities no longer have any economic value, so they are written off the books.
This matter we spoke about which I want communicated to the Nunavut Housing Corporation is not to prioritize the economic value, but to focus on public health and safety.
This has to be one of the priorities.
If you don’t pay attention to public health and safety with these dilapidated buildings, they can still retain some economic value.
(interpretation ends) My question is this: are public health and safety issues part of the evaluations that are normally applied when dealing with whether or not the units are habitable for the public?
Mr. Chairman, when we talk about economic viability of the units, it includes health-related and safety factors.
Mr. Curley: Thank you. I appreciate that. How often do the units include public health inspections?
Mr. Chairman, with your permission, I would like Mr. Barriault to respond to that question in detail.
All of our public housing and all of our owned housing are inspected through a condition rating, which is a top to bottom assessment of the unit, at least every two years.
This is done with the support of our local housing organizations. As well, these inspections do take place whenever a tenant has checked in and whenever a tenant has checked out. There are opportunities for our local housing associations to enter the units to perform work orders on a fairly regular basis in most of our houses.
As well, we encourage all of our tenants, if they have issues of concern particularly related to health and safety, to bring it to the immediate attention of their local housing organization so that a work order can be issued or an assessment can be done of the safety of the house for the tenants to continue living in them.