EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Mr. Speaker, I reviewed the water licence process and it’s my understanding that during this process, participants, such as federal and territorial departments, Inuit organizations, community members, and elders are given an opportunity to review licences and can submit comments.
Is the minister aware of when the Baker Lake water licence was last renewed and did his department have any comments during the renewal process when it examined the licence?
Again I thank the member for the question.
I have no idea of when the last licence was issued to the Hamlet of Baker Lake.
Again I say that the jurisdiction belongs with the water board and INAC, and I would suggest to the member, if he is very interested in getting that information, that he acquire that information from them.
I would say that we probably would have had comments at that time, and I could look into that and get back to the member on any comments that we had regarding the licence that was last issued.
I just again would like to stress with the hon. minister that I would encourage the government to table information for the benefit of all Nunavummiut and the House.
Basically this is in regard to public health versus development as well as advancement.
We all care for advancement for social development and economic development.
But first and foremost, as northerners and people from Nunavut, the environment is of great prestige and is very precious to us.
So I will encourage the hon. minister to have his department look further into the process as well as the complexity as to how these are dealt with in terms of different levels of governance.
So I will be following up these questions further on during the sitting of the House.
It’s not a question, but I give you an opportunity to respond, Mr. Shewchuk.
I would just like to inform the member that if there is any information that I can provide in regard to the licensing of the landfill in Baker Lake and any information that I can assist, I will provide that to him.
Question 449 – 3(2): Review of the Nunavut Housing Trust (Rumbolt)
Before I get into my question, I would like to thank my colleagues for not forgetting about the $110 million shortfall of the Nunavut Housing Corporation because we feel that there are still many unanswered questions.
Mr. Speaker, I was a housing manager in Sanikiluaq for 10 years.
Whenever our books were being looked at, the auditors always came to Sanikiluaq in person to review the files and interview staff.
If this was done in a small housing association in a small community, I cannot understand why the Nunavut Housing Corporation and the government allowed the accounting firm to audit the $60 million Nunavut Housing Trust shortfall without actually going to the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s offices and looking at the files in person.
Can the minister expand on the answers that he provided yesterday on this issue and explain exactly why we should have confidence in the report’s findings?
Hon. Tagak Curley: Thank you. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the question.
I think the member is not the only one concerned about the issue with respect to the shortfall of the number of years that obviously this particular situation occurred.
Ever since 2006, they have been underestimating and under budget far below the cost of actually building units in Nunavut and that has accumulated into something that has become impossible.
It took this new management to really dig out the whole slew of problems that should have been reported few years ago but never did.
You know, with respect to the audit, unlike a regular annual audit or usual audit, this one was about whether or not there were excessive misappropriation of funds and therefore, a special management audit was conducted by the T&D firm.
I cannot and I don’t speak for the accounting firm. They are responsible for statements that they made to the House and if the report is not accepted, nor acceptable to the members, then certainly we can pass that information on to the D&T.
That’s about all I can say on this one.
Yesterday, my colleague from Coral Harbour pointed out a very obvious fact: if you’re trying to find out why things went wrong to the tune of $60 million, you have to talk to the people who made the big decisions so that you can understand the whole situation.
Will the minister commit to having the accounting firm make the effort to interview the former president of the Nunavut Housing Corporation so that we can get to the bottom of this very expensive issue?
As I indicated, I don’t speak for the accounting firm; they are a firm in itself.
I would suggest to members that certainly you can invite them here to appear before the committee and explain exactly why they concluded in such a way.
I think the report has been useful.
It has confirmed the weaknesses that the Nunavut Housing Corporation has found to be inadequate.
As a result, this House, earlier this spring, affirmed that there needs to be further audits done in order to ensure Nunavutmiut that there was no serious misappropriation of funds which would lead to further investigation.
As of this moment, the cabinet on this side is not convinced that there had been excessive misappropriation or any mismanagement of funds, other than not budgeting properly as they should have throughout the last, at least, three and a half years.
Yesterday, the minister committed to finding out how much the accounting firm was paid for its work.
Can the minister tell us today how much this firm was paid?
Hon. Tagak Curley: Mr. Speaker, I don’t have the information as yet but that information, once I have it, will be prepared.
Our officials were really quite busy with other matters this morning.
They even got up for a meeting at seven o’clock this morning. So once I have that information, I will be announcing it in the House.
Another finding in the report is that the theft of housing materials has been identified as a problem.
As the minister will recall from previous budget sessions, I was pushing for the Nunavut Housing Corporation to build secure storage facilities in our communities.
Can the minister indicate what steps the Nunavut Housing Corporation will take to address these issues and how many communities presently have secure storage areas?
I think we need to be fair with many of our communities. As the member knows, not all communities can store that amount of materials when they come in to particular communities.
When they arrive in places… these are huge facilities. You would have to have a large square footage of fences or whatnot to store it at. Once the contractors take possession of it, they are normally responsible for security, but I can look into the fact whether or not communities throughout Nunavut actually have that.
My experience says that there are very few secured fences throughout Nunavut.
Question 450 – 3(2): Tourism Deposit Assurance Program (Okalik)
Mr. Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (interpretation ends) My question is for the Minister of Economic Development and Transportation today.
Earlier this month, the minister’s department announced that it had revoked the outfitter’s licence for a company operating in the Kivalliq.
I want to make it perfectly clear that I am not questioning the department’s investigation process or its position to revoke the licence of this particular operator.
However, I am concerned about Nunavut’s reputation as a destination of choice for tourists as it may be damaged with the lost dollars for the tourists who want to spend in good faith as tourists for our territory.
Section 3.1 of the Travel and Tourism Act allows the minister to establish a Tourist Deposit Assurance Program.
Under this program, the minister would have the discretion to reimburse deposits lost by people in these kinds of circumstances.
I checked this morning and the Nunavut Tourism’s own website advertises this program and assures tourists that they are protected.
My question is this: will the minister consider applications for reimbursement made by people who lost their deposits as a result of this operator being shut down by the government, yes or no?
As you know, last August, there was a suspension of an outfitter’s licence and immediately after that there was an investigation by the department.
I share his concerns that we’ve got to protect Nunavut’s tourism industry and at that point, that’s exactly what the department is doing.
In this case, we’re trying to protect people, tourism, tourists, and the reputation of Nunavut, and that’s why these actions were taken by the department.
The other part of the question is that there is an adjustment fund that may be run through the tourism association, but I’ll get back to the member on the specifics and the details of that.
Mr. Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (interpretation ends) I understand that this program is run at the discretion of the minister, so I’m hoping that the minister will assure tourists who want to come our way that their deposits are protected.
I just want the minister to respond for these particular tourists who did nothing wrong, they want to spend their money in our territory, and perhaps they should be compensated by this government for their loss as they were no longer able to come to our territory because of the government’s actions.
So will the minister assure this House and tourists who come our way that they are protected by compensating these good citizens who wanted to come to our territory?
Again I do have to state that within the department, we try and protect the tourists out there.
Whatever necessary action that we take, as in everything else, does have consequences.
The tourists may have lost some of the dollars that they have put in for this tour.
Just like everything else, there are consequences when there is some sort of action taken to protect tourists and Nunavummiut.
I will check further into this.
If there is an adjustment fund, I may not be aware of that.
For the most part, just like anywhere else, any other tourist in the world, when you travel, you get your insurance. You buy insurance for your travel to wherever you’re going.
I’m sure that these tourists had done that.
The suspension of the licence which eventually led to the revocation of the licence did have some negative impacts to our tourism association and for Nunavut as a whole, including our department.
It’s our responsibility to make sure that whatever we do up here in Nunavut for tourism is safe.
Mr. Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (interpretation ends) I want to assure the member that I’m not questioning the wisdom of the decision that was made to take away the licence of the operator.
My concern first and foremost for tourists who want to come our way is we should assure them that their dollars are safe and in the event that their visit is cancelled by our government, they will be compensated so that they can continue to come and visit and spend their hard-earned dollars in our territory.
Can the minister come forward with a decision on this matter sooner rather than later?
Our reputation as a territory of choice is being put to question through this particular act. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Within the last several months, we have made some changes within my department to bring the profile of tourism up in Nunavut.
Although this was an unfortunate incident, an unfortunate situation, under the Nunavut Tourism Act, we do have authority to suspend and revoke licences.
That’s a matter of safety for the tourists who come up here into Nunavut. I will check and get back to the member on an adjustment fund that may or may not exist within the department for the Nunavut Tourism Association.
Mr. Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (interpretation ends) I will quote from the Nunavut Tourism website that’s up today. “If you want help about losing your money, there is an assurance program put in place,” it assures visitors who are coming our way, and there is a 1-866 Nunavut number for citizens who have lost their money to call to get assistance.
I am troubled that this website is up and the minister responsible for this particular assurance program is not aware of it.
So I hope that the minister can be briefed quickly by his officials and make sure that this program is running properly so that visitors who want to come to Nunavut are assured that if there is activity that takes place that they have no control over and the government takes away the licence of an operator for whatever reason, their money is safe and that they are welcome to our territory without that problem hanging over our heads as a territory.
It could make it a lot easier for tourists to come to our territory. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Speaker (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Okalik. I don’t think there was a question there, but I’ll give you a chance to respond, Minister Taptuna.
The member is absolutely right.
There are always some issues that arise.
A situation like this was unfortunate. If there is an adjustment fund for tourism to protect their money after paying for an excursion in Nunavut, I’m not aware of that, but I will check with my officials and make sure that there is some protection like that for tourism that goes into Nunavut.
But I do have to assure the member that for most tourists who come up here or anywhere else into the world, as tourists, they usually do get their insurance purchased beforehand before they go into any other country.
I’m not saying that these tourists had done that, but for the most part, that’s an actual thing that every tourist does is get their insurance before they leave their home country for such an event and excursion like this into our part of the country.
Mr. Speaker, I will double-check and make sure that the website is up to date and is correct, with relevant information.
Question 451 – 3(2): Support for Statistics (Komoartok)
Mr. Komoartok (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (interpretation ends) Yesterday, October 20, was World Statistics Day.
The Government of Nunavut’s Bureau of Statistics is located in my home community of Pangnirtung, and I would like to take this opportunity to recognize the individuals in that office and their hard work on behalf of Nunavummiut.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct my question to the Premier and Minister of Executive and Intergovernmental Affairs, who is responsible for the bureau of statistics.
Mr. Speaker, the federal government has decided to stop using the long-form census.
The detailed level of information collected by the census was a very useful tool to show the federal government why Nunavut needs additional supports to address critical social needs, such as overcrowding, poverty, and the loss of language.
Can the minister advise this House whether or not she has formally asked the Prime Minister of Canada to reconsider his position on the long-form census? If not, why not?
Premier of Nunavut and also Minister of Executive and Intergovernmental Affairs, Hon. Eva Aariak.
It is something that is very important and I’ve had dialogues with the minister in Ottawa who is responsible for the bureau of statistics. It also touches up on such social issues as housing, health, overcrowding, and so on.
Mr. Komoartok (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (interpretation ends) Good decision-making relies on good, high-quality information.
With the potential loss of important data being provided by Statistics Canada, has the minister considered increasing resources and capacity at the Pangnirtung Bureau of Statistics?
Right now, we have not studied on whether we have adequate capacity, but we can look into that.
I would like to get assurance from the government that she will look into it.
(interpretation ends) Recent population estimates released by Statistics Canada show that Nunavut has experienced the highest population growth of all provinces and territories across Canada since April 2010.
The demographic breakdown of our population will affect the demand for programs and services. Can the minister confirm that the Nunavut Bureau of Statistics will have the adequate resources to analyze such factors as trends in population growth across the territory?
With regard to the Government of Nunavut, we also have advocates. We were dealing with Statistics Canada.
At this point in time, perhaps to site this example, we just reviewed the Housing Corporation inspections. This will continue the spirit of cooperation and collaboration between the statistics bureau and the Government of Nunavut. They also worked together when they delivered Canadian statistics.
Your final supplementary, Mr. Komoartok.
Mr. Komoartok (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (interpretation ends) Will the minister commit to addressing Nunavut’s needs for high-quality and complete statistical information and provide an update to Members of the Legislative Assembly on what steps she has taken?
With regard to statistics and in trying to determine data related to Inuit, such as lack of housing, lack of education, and health issues, all these issues are important.
Whenever we are making plans, we use these statistics to provide our arguments.
I will continue to monitor it to ensure that it proceeds smoothly. That’s my commitment.
Question 452 – 3(2): The Recent Audit of the Nunavut Housing Trust (Elliott)
My questions are in regard to the review of the Nunavut Housing Trust and the audit that members have been asking questions about for the last couple of days.
Your department paid for this audit report and from some of the comments you made, it sounds like you guys are happy with the outcome of the report.
Is this the final step in terms of what your department will be doing with this report?
Mr. Speaker, I think we need to go back a bit to the spring session. During the spring session, there were pretty strong feelings about whether or not there were massive missing funds or whatnot, or whether or not there might have been inappropriate actions taken by some former corporate officials or whatnot, and it was agreed by all Members of the House that there should be a special audit.
There were actually two audits that the Minister of Finance directed. One was the regular financial controls audit, which indicated that they follow the usual standards, and they were given a clean audit with respect to the standards that normally apply to the accounting firms.
So that will likely be tabled by my colleague today, the Minister of Finance.
But in terms of the other broader management audit, I believe that the auditors confirmed that there were flawed budgeting processes that were used in relation to the Nunavut Housing Trust, and these particular flaws were indicated by the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s new management team.
They cooperated with this particular auditing firm and helped with the recommendations as they found them.
Today, I can say to you that the report has proven to be very useful in correcting some of the weaknesses particularly with the financial controls and budgeting, but we are far from over yet.
It’s not over yet.
The financial officials are in Arviat and this particular split situation is really not helping the corporation to be fully able to manage day-to-day requirements in shaping the financial systems in place.
That’s all I can say. We will continue to correct what has been missing and use that report to strengthen the financial controls. (interpretation) Thank you.
In response to some of the questions that some of the other MLAs had been asking, you had mentioned that an action plan for the corporation was made from the report, but the question that wasn’t asked was: when will this occur or what [are the] timelines in terms of when will the action plan be completed?
Mr. Speaker, with respect to the management and financial controls, the issues that D&T recommended are now being implemented by the Housing Corporation and exactly how long it will take is really a question that involves whether or not the staff positions should be transferred here or not.
The cabinet has not decided on that issue yet because there are certain things that we have to consider before doing so and it will be brought to the cabinet agenda before too long.
There are other broader issues that will be worked on in component stages.
I use the word component because I don’t believe they can be solved in one stroke of a pen, if I may use that word.
That involves the governance system, the governance structure, as well as the management improvements to address some of the actual controls that we needed as well as the project management.
So these will be, again, brought to the cabinet and, at the moment, we are drafting these work plans as we speak.
With that said, to me, it raises a few concerns.
The minister, in one of his replies, just said today that three and a half years of bad budgeting has occurred and not everything is implemented.
We’re not sure if we have the human resource people in place to follow through. The action plan is not complete. We have a budget before us in Committee of the Whole.
How can the minister guarantee that this budget is not a bad budget?
Mr. Speaker, I think the member knows quite well the report that he has with him.
All of the flaws that were contributing to this particular situation had been reviewed and brought pretty well up to date through the various assistances made by the auditors, including the Auditor General of Canada, who submitted a number of recommendations to the Housing Corporation.
Therefore, the other day I used the word whether or not the Nunavut Housing Corporation is looking into every rock and find any weaknesses that have not been found.
For the first time, I think if you read the report correctly, the cost to completion budget has been instituted in various controls and budget processes of the Nunavut Housing Corporation, and that was never done before, these costs to completion.
In the Nunavut Housing Corporation, if I may expand a bit, Mr. Speaker, there are a number of checks and balances in place, including the Department of Finance, which means the Financial Management Board must also concur with the budget that the Nunavut Housing Corporation is submitting and implementing.
Whenever there is a new contract, it goes back to the Minister of Finance and his officials and analysts are checking whether or not the Nunavut Housing Corporation is actually sticking to the budget to completion to complete all of the units that we have right now.
But there are still some decisions that have to be made and these are not being overlooked. It is just that scheduling is one delay factor that we are having right now.
I guess that just leaves the last question.
Can the minister then, with all of the controls and everything put in place, with it being put to the finance minister to make sure there are no problems with the budget, guarantee that there will be no more overspending on the Nunavut Housing Trust program and the CMHC affordable housing trust program?
Very important question.
I certainly will not deviate from the fact that Nunavutmiut need these units. All of these units must be completed that Nunavutmiut require. The comment that we have seen in public postings is it’s very important to complete these units.
Your constituents would appreciate, I’m sure, having new facilities, new housing completed before too long.
We are committed to that, but I cannot promise the member whether or not I will be the minister after the leadership forum. I am going to have to leave it with him.
Question 453 – 3(2): Treatment Programs for Nunavut (Ugyuk)
Ms. Ugyuk (interpretation): Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I was just laughing at a little incident.
I would like to raise a question to the Minister of Health, Hon. Tagak Curley.
He seems to be on a never-ending list. He is the Minister responsible for Housing and he is also the Minister of Health, which are very important departments.
Mr. Speaker, we had requested some employees for healthy living who would be working for that program.
The request was very understandable and it falls outside the healthy living standards.
Can the minister inform the members which standard they will be using when they are dealing with healing as it pertains to Nunavut and Nunavummiut?
If I didn’t understand correctly, help me out.