EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
However, with respect to the time period between the department transfer to the student and the inter-bank transfer, that is outside of our control as that is a banking matter between banks.
Within our offices, we complete the actual paperwork within this five-day period to initiate the payment process.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): Thank you. The reason I raised the question was because several students confided about issues they faced.
Many students are currently in Rankin Inlet for NAC programs and most go home for Christmas. Students relay their concerns when they travel home and see me at the airport.
A student related how he spent the whole summer trying to access FANS funding that was previously approved.
After all the work, he still hadn’t received his funding, so he called the offices.
The excuse he heard and which became a departmental response was, “The worker is on vacation.”
We cannot stop a program from being accessed even if the personnel are taking their holidays. Is FANS such a special program that they cannot function when someone is taking a vacation?
From my recollection as a minister, even when ministers were going to take annual leave, they had to task a fellow executive member to undertake their responsibilities while they were off. We had to announce who was the replacement.
Is that not the case with this program? Aren’t your managers within the FANS program subject to the same protocol?
When they’re dealing with the FANS application forms, as I stated earlier last week, my deputy minister notifies the responsible personnel with a directive stating that all applications for FANS funding are to be processed before the Christmas break.
It usually makes a statement about the need to complete all the work.
If we need to use the postal service, the delivery would be longer, so we have to look at various options as each has different times.
These types of operational issues are going to be part of the review to ensure that all approved funding is disbursed as efficiently as possible.
Let me state that when I requested information regarding this matter to the department, I was notified that not very many students report the problems they have encountered, at least in the recent past, such as this fall.
Perhaps some students don’t inform the department about the problems that they encounter.
So I encourage everyone to immediately inform the department when they encounter any problems so that we can improve the area in question, especially when we are conducting this review of the program.
We feel for the students attending post-secondary institutions when they are forced to wait since they have made the commitment to attend those courses to improve their lives. We also have to provide good services on our part to lessen their stress while they are concentrating on their coursework.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): Thank you. Mr. Chairman.
Let me ask this question then based on the response from the minister and the deputy minister about the planned review. The response was it is being studied.
Do you have terms of reference for the mandate and, if so, can you read it? Who is conducting the review?
Which department is being reviewed or is it an internal or independent review of the departmental programs and services?
What kind of mandate has been given to this review process? Can you read the terms of reference for this review?
This is not being contracted out; the employees are conducting this review. This is to ensure a lower cost and to implement measures to improve the program. To reiterate, this is an internal review.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): Thank you. That kind of muddies the waters.
Can you confirm whether this is indeed a review or if the funds are appropriate? The deputy minister stated that there is a study and she used the term in Inuktitut. To me, it means a review.
Is it being reviewed? Will you be making improvements to the program based on the results of the review? When can this committee or House be informed about whether or not this review is successful?
The FANS program is being reviewed.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): Yes, that’s how I understood it. I imagine there are numerous reviews and they look at whether the amounts are appropriate as there are various studies ongoing.
I wanted to ask when this review will be completed and how this House will be informed of any changes or whether improvements have been made. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
This program review that is going on will be a priority task and we are expecting to have a consultation plan ready for review this spring.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): Part of my earlier question was not answered and this was regarding whether or not the review has terms of reference or if it is contracted out and the answer was that this is an internal review.
So will the findings come out in a report or will the minister inform this House via announcement? I’m referring to the review and recommendations stemming from this review.
Will you be reporting on the results of this review in our June session?
We will not be contracting this out.
As per my earlier statement, we haven’t contracted it out in order to control expenditures and that is why the Department of Education is conducting this review internally.
As per past practices in conducting internal reviews of the Education Act, it was to determine what was required to implement the legislation. Similarly, this review is conducted using internal departmental staff looking into this program.
The group will report back on their recommendations to the committee.
Do you have additional questions? Mr. Curley.
Mr. Curley: Thank you. (interpretation) When the recommendations are completed, will you be tabling them in the House, even prior to their approval by the minister?
Can you clearly state for the record, “I will table this information,” at this time?
When the review has been completed, along with the list of recommendations, and upon their approval by the Executive Council, I will be able to table them in this House.
You are done?
We’re on G-10.
I have no more names on my list. Adult Education and Post-secondary Services. Education.
Branch Summary. Page G-10. Mr. Enook.
Whilst we are on page G-10, I would like to ask a question.
How many students are receiving FANS funding for courses outside of Nunavut?
There are 476 students.
Another matter within the funding figures listed in the amounts for 2012-13 is that it seems to have been decreased.
I wonder why that is the case.
With respect to the first question, I just want to clarify that 83 percent of the students receiving financial assistance are Nunavut beneficiaries.
In regard to his second question, I would like to ask my deputy minister to respond.
The decrease of $600,000 was to our contribution for updating the computer software.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also thank you, Ms. Okpik.
I would like to ask another question related to your departmental 2012-15 business plan.
In the business plan, the funding for capacity building and training programs seems to be reduced.
I thank the member for asking that question, but can he clarify which page he is asking his question on?
And I apologize.
Please indicate which page you are referring to.
It is listed on page 118 of the department business plan, continuing on to page 121 in the document.
It is only available in the English version as I do not see the Inuktitut version.
Perhaps it would be more appropriate to ask the question in English.
(interpretation ends) According to your departmental business plan, both apprenticeship administration and the trades education program will receive less funding than in previous years. (interpretation) Why is that?
The reason why this was done is there have been changes to the program. I’ll have the deputy minister elaborate on the exact changes.
We regularly move items around in our budget.
The Nunavut Adult Learning Strategy wasn’t funded, but we have continually tried to implement it.
In the document, it states that a review is required on the department’s operations, particularly the administration for the trades program.
As a result, we created a new division specifically for adult learning.
The funding is simply transferred from a different fund to this new allocation specific to the trades program.
In your departmental business plan for 2012-13, one of your priorities is to “Continue the development of an apprenticeship strategy.”
What aspects of the apprenticeship system have been the most challenging to administer to date?
Can you identify what page you are on so that everyone doesn’t need to look for it?
Maybe you can clearly identify the page number.
If the member can clarify where his question is, we can reply.
Minister Enook.
I’ll tell you where it is.
In your business plan, it’s on page 119 in English.
Let me ask the question in English. (interpretation ends) One of your department’s priorities for 2012-13 is to “Continue the development of an apprenticeship strategy.”
The question is: what aspects of the apprenticeship system have been the most challenging to administer to date?
This program is new.
What aspect of the apprenticeship program has been the most challenging to administer? I believe that was the question.
We don’t have the documentation with us, but my deputy minister will explain what has been done to date.
There are three that I know of.
The first one is with the Alberta curriculum.
The entrance exam for the apprenticeship program is the one that is among the most challenging.
For instance, if there are 10 apprenticeship students and they have to write the exam, there may be one or two or even three students who can start their apprenticeship immediately.
We have always known that it is only those who complete their math and science requirements are much more likely to pass the entrance exam.
We work closely with Arctic College to ensure these required courses are available in the communities to improve the chances of students passing the entrance exam.
There is this issue too, especially in smaller communities, where we can’t find enough certified journeypersons. In accordance with regulations in carpentry, for example, a journeyperson can only have two apprentices.
If there is only one certified journeyperson in a community, it means there can only be two apprentices.
This has been a major obstacle to overcome.
Thirdly, when carpentry apprentices are going for a journeyperson certificate, they have to complete a certain number of hours within a particular year before they can write their final exams. This depends on the needs of the jobs.
For example, if there was no construction within the community or if someone didn’t complete their tasks, their required hours always fall short.
Perhaps if they could work full time, they would have a better chance of completing their carpentry courses at the end of four years.
Unfortunately, sometimes they’re unable to get the necessary hours and earn their certificates until after six or seven years.
That is what we work hard on to resolve.
We’re on page G-10.
Adult Education and Post-secondary Services. $10,443.000.
Chairman (interpretation): Page G-12.
Department of Education. $2,974,000.
In regard to income support and the Income Support Program, some of the changes that are happening this year, the Premier had mentioned that it would help prevent abuse of the program.
I was wondering: is there much abuse of the Income Support Program and could she provide some examples?
Before you get a response, I think the minister would like to get her other staff to the witness table.
If I could replace my officials with people who work with income support, if that’s okay, Mr. Chairman.
Which one do you want? Sergeant-at-Arms, if you could wait a few minutes, we will get the deputy minister out and get the income support person there.
Thank you, Ms. Okpik. If we need to ask you more questions, the minister will ask you to come back. Thank you for your assistance.
Minister Aariak, for the record, please introduce your official.
I would like to welcome the official on my left who is the Director of Income Support, Sandy Teiman.
Chairman (interpretation): Welcome, Ms. Teiman.
I’m sorry, but I forgot your question because I was supposed to get the minister to okay the official to come to the witness table.
If you can remember the question, Minister Aariak, we will let you respond to the question.
Hon. Eva Aariak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for reminding me.
Perhaps if my official can hear what the question was.
It would be appreciated if you can repeat the question.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Madam Aariak. Mr. Elliott.
As the day has gone along, my mind is coming back to me, so I do remember the question that I asked.
In the opening comments, the minister made reference to changes with the Income Support Program, what it will provide, and help prevent abuse of the program.
My question was: is there much abuse of the Income Support Program across the territory and could she give some specific examples?
I will ask Sandy Teiman to respond to the question since she deals with these issues on a daily basis at her office.
Ms. Teiman: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, there is a fair bit of abuse in the social assistance program across the territory.
I’ll give three specific examples.
One is individuals are not declaring income when they make income; the second one is we have clients who frequently declare that they’re separated when one spouse gets a job, so they declare they’re separated and come in separately; and then people travelling between communities that will go into both offices and apply for social assistance.
This question is in regard to some of the concerns that we hear.
Actually, recently I see posted on Facebook, where clients go in and get their social assistance, purchase packs of cigarettes, and the next thing you know, they’re advertising on sell and swap $15 a pack.
In terms of this abuse, is this considered abuse or inappropriate spending of recipients’ money?
That is not the purpose of these funds, so it is inappropriate.
Again, I know some income support recipients actually use some of the funding that they receive for purchasing alcohol orders.
As the minister had stated in the opening comments, income support is the last resort for people to go who are struggling to make ends meet and purchase food.
Are they allowed to purchase items like alcohol and cigarettes using their income support funding?
The social assistance funds provided to the client for income support assistance is not directed towards the purchase of alcohol or cigarettes.
So is this another form of abuse that the minister was referring to in her opening comments?
With respect to these issues, there is nothing written in the legislation or in the regulations regarding the discretionary purchases of clients and what items are allowed or not allowed.
There are no regulations. (interpretation ends) There’s nothing in the Act or regulations that allow the department to dictate what clients purchase with the social assistance program.
Our income support workers couldn’t actually enforce not purchasing certain items.
It’s not in the Act or the regulations, but the income support money that is given out to the clients is for food and clothing.
So to clarify, if an income support recipient is spending their income support dollars on alcohol and cigarettes, that is up to the individual and Income Support cannot deny them income support because they are using their money in that regard.
When these funds have been disbursed to the recipients on income support, we don’t follow the paper trail to find out what purchases they made at which store. Most recipients are aware of the purpose of these funds.
In regard to what recourse the income support worker has if individuals maybe do not pay for their rent or the power bill and it adds up over a number of years and they’re getting cut-off letters from QEC saying that the power will be cut off, do they just pay that bill or is it paid directly?
I thank the member for his very important question.
I would like to ask Ms. Teiman to respond to that question.
The majority of payments that we make for social assistance when someone comes in for an assessment… . The majority of payments that are made after the assessment is completed go to the third party vendor.
So we pay rent on behalf of clients, we pay electricity on behalf of clients, and we do not pay arrears. So if someone does not make payment for the balance of their cheque, because not everybody receives a full electrical or rent payment if they have income, then that is their responsibility and the program does not pay arrears.
My next questions are based around the reduction of poverty, which, I think, would play a big role in terms of what income support does since the clients who regularly visit are trying to get out of that cycle.
Since we’re dealing with education, what types of incentives are available for individuals who want to go to school and continue their education?
Hon. Eva Aariak (interpretation): Depending on their needs, the information is usually provided to the students based on their chosen courses and institutions. We provide information on Nunavut Arctic College’s list of programs and courses, and we also provide information to graduates on the locally available courses.
With respect to the additional student funding assistance programs available from the federal government, especially for pre-employment and, in English, the labour market program, we have received about $944,000 to date from the federal government. This is additional funding for pre-employment within the labour market program.
Mr. Elliott: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As part of The Makimaniq Plan, I know the rent scale is being reviewed within the Department of Education specifically under Income Support. Is the department or division looking at more incentives for individuals who are on income support who might want to go back to school as a way of getting them back in since education is such a key factor in having people move on?
Hon. Eva Aariak (interpretation): As per my earlier statement, adult learning centres also provide information on programs available through Nunavut Arctic College. This information includes what programs are available in their communities and this information is generally available at the centres. I would like to ask Ms. Teiman to provide more detail on what this entails.
We’re under Income Support. G-12. Ms. Teiman.
Ms. Teiman: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The department is very fortunate to have access to the funding that is provided to the Government of Nunavut for the labour market programs.
So the new labour market agreement that was signed in 2009 provides benefits directly for those on social assistance to take the various programs that are offered through Nunavut Arctic College or a third party program deliverer. Sometimes we pay for the course to be put on and then other times, we pay for allowances for the student to actually take the course.
So we direct our clients through the labour market funds first so that we have additional funds through the Income Support Program. If those funds run out, then we supplement through the Income Support Program so that the programs under Income Support mirror those of the labour market agreement programs. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Ms. Teiman. Mr. Elliott.
Mr. Elliott: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With this department providing the Income Support Program and working on different policies and whatnot, I know that Ms. Teiman has actually attended some of the Poverty Reduction Working Group meetings.
With the announcement of a new piece of legislation coming through, what specific suggestions from a Department of Education perspective need to be incorporated in this new piece of legislation to help alleviate poverty within our territory?
Hon. Eva Aariak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As this is an important issue, I also thank the member for his question. The contents of the proposed legislation are still being researched, with consultation ongoing with several levels of organizations to work out the details.
At this time, this process is not completed yet. Once the results of this consultation are written and available, we will ensure that we announce it to the members. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thanks for that response. Maybe I’ll rephrase it a little bit. Again, with the experience and the amount of time that individuals within that division of income support and the amount of expertise in there, I was wondering if the minister could actually provide us with a few ideas and suggestions that need to be put into legislation to make it effective.
This matter is still under consideration as we are still trying to determine what is best served by inclusion in the legislation. At this time, the contents are being debated between the parties. The Department of Education is also included in the Makimaniq Committee, deliberating upon the future contents.
Many areas are identified for inclusion, especially as it relates to education, which could provide more benefits. As an example, ongoing education can have a profound effect on many aspects of our lives. It has a bearing on our ability to get employment.
This can include courses on bookkeeping, as well as entrepreneurship courses to establish a business. There are many categories that can impact one’s life in our communities correlated to education and learning.
This is an important matter, and the members of the Makimaniq Committee are involved and represent the Department of Education.
I know that individuals who are on income support rely heavily upon breakfast and lunch programs being offered at the school for their children.
The budget addressed about continuing to push the breakfast programs, but I know we’re at the end of this department and I haven’t been able to see where it’s coming through.
Are there any dollars within the Department of Education that actually go to supporting the breakfast programs?
Hon. Eva Aariak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This program is administered by the Department of Health and Social Services to offer a healthy meal within the schools prior to classes.
Additionally, the district education authorities in the communities also conduct local fundraising activities to support these programs.
This is part of the Healthy Children Initiative, if I were to say it in English. As an example, this program also has funding available for healthy children initiatives through a formal proposal.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Aariak. Thank you, Mr. Elliott. Mr. Curley.
Mr. Curley: Thank you. (interpretation) Mr. Chairman, I want to ask a question related to income support.
I also thank the minister and her assistant, Sandra, whom I know is extremely dedicated and committed to her work.
However, what I want clarified is the comment about amending the Income Support Program. I imagine there have been discussions about options related to the proposed changes.
In my opinion, I don’t think some of the recommendations should need approval prior to their implementation, especially those that require changes.
As per my colleague’s statement, I think we know of too many instances of abuse of these funds for alcohol purchases. I was also informed by an acquaintance that in some cases, drug dealers will travel to the communities when the dates for income support cheques come around.
It is quite obvious that many people gamble or play poker and many people can gather at these units. You can tell when cheques have been disbursed due to the number of people.
Some of these people end up going hungry at home and some younger people or students end up not having any food at home.
Due to this reason, I would like to ask the minister or her officials if they can elaborate on the proposed changes and what direction the department is leaning towards.
The proposed amendments currently under review are only directed towards the FANS program, which I referred to earlier.
The Income Support Program is not being looked at with respect to the youth who are not taking courses as students and has not been researched.