EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Hon. Leona Aglukkaq: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. From what I understand, Ms. Brown was describing a vehicle that is used for homecare visits. I am going to ask her to elaborate what services are used.
Ms. Brown: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is the practice of the Department of Health to encourage community enterprises. We hope that there are businesses in each community that provide a vehicle for ambulance services, of which then the department can buy that service, as and when required.
We want staff at the health centres to be providing health care, not driving services. So the vehicles that we buy for the health centres with the fold down stretcher capability now are for emergencies only.
In some communities we don’t have the bigger vehicles yet, either because there is a viable taxi, or other business and we don’t want to be unfair with it. Also the vehicles we provide at the health centre would be ATVs or snow machines because of the size of the community that works for home visits.
So it really depends on the community, but we really don’t want to be into the patient transport business.
Mr. Netser: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to apologize to the minister for implying that the department lied to us, so my apologies. I heard what I wanted to hear.
At this time I don’t have anybody else on my list. Kivalliq. H-8.
Just to be certain: did you say Kitikmeot region?
Chairman: No, Mr. Peterson.
We are still on page 8.
Kivalliq/Keewatin Region.
Total Kivalliq Region. $45,000. (interpretation) Do you agree?
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you for agreeing.
Still under H-8.
Under Kivalliq Region, Joe Allen has been waiting for a long time, and even before Joe Allen, Mr. Peterson, when we get to Kitikmeot.
Mr. Evyagotailak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) For the two regional health facilities opening this fiscal year in Cambridge Bay, I had some questions here.
Is there a problem; in reading the budget there have been cost overruns.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Evyagotailak. (interpretation ends) Madame Minister.
For the Kitikmeot hospital project, currently we are waiting for the final figures to be presented to the department. Kivalliq is within the approved budget.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Madame Minister. Mr. Evyagotailak.
What are the final costs for the Kitikmeot facility?
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Evyagotailak. Madame Minister.
I just responded to that question.
We are waiting for the final submissions from the corporation that constructed the facility. When we have that, I will be able to share that information.
Chairman: Thank you, Minister. Mr. Evyagotailak.
Thanks again, Madame Minister.
Will the proposed services at the two regional facilities be immediately available or will some services be available at a later date? And if so, which ones?
Immediately, not everything will be available. One example is in the Kitikmeot; the health centre staff are moving into the facility today, and then we will proceed in hiring all of the positions required to operate that new facility.
So we are expecting that those services will be available within 12 months, but not immediately with the moving of those staff this coming week.
Mr. Evyagotailak: What are the projected annual or main costs for the facility in Cambridge Bay?
I don’t have that annual cost yet as we have not been in it for...we haven’t even moved in yet. So after a year, we’ll have a better idea on the annual costs to operate the facilities that we’ve just opened.
Mr. Evyagotailak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks again, Madame Minister.
Will there be further capital expenditures related to the delivery of services at the facility?
Not that we’re aware of.
Madame Minister, what are the specific plans for the health centre in Cambridge Bay?
That’s currently under discussion.
We’re looking at our needs as a department and we’re looking at the best use of space in the community.
So there has not been a decision made yet as to what will happen to that facility.
We expect that within the regional office in the Kitikmeot once they’ve completed their needs for their own space, then we will be able to make a decision, as a department, of whether we need that facility or not.
My colleague had asked this question on facilities, but I would like to know what specific services will be offered at the facility in Cambridge Bay.
Will there be diagnostic equipment, such MRI machines, a CAT scanner and X-ray machines?
For the first two items, the answer is no and for the third, we’re looking at X-ray machines.
Does this mean that patients will still have to go out to either Yellowknife or Edmonton?
Until such time as those facilities or that equipment is available, that is correct.
Well in that case then, I’d like to ask a question about the boarding home in Yellowknife.
There was a concern from one of our members that came to a meeting.
They were quite concerned about the boarding home in Yellowknife being so small.
There are a lot of people that come in from the Inuvialuit side and from our region also.
Some of the patients have to stay at the hotel when either of the two boarding homes are full. They end up staying in a hotel.
Will the boarding home be expanded?
This is what one of the members from my community wanted to know.
I should note that the issue was also raised during the Kitikmeot Inuit Association AGM.
And what I said at that time to them also was that we have two years remaining on the lease of that facility.
We are going to initiate the discussion whether we require that facility or whether we need a bigger facility.
We had concerns internally that, with the hospitals that are being constructed in Cambridge Bay and with the boarding home there, we also need to evaluate what the needs will be or what impact that will have the usage of the Yellowknife facility.
I said also I am open to all options around a partnership arrangement or constructing or reusing.
At this point in time, all options are on the table for discussions and to move forward on that file.
I would like to ask a question on the continuing care centres. Is that similar to the 24-hour care facility?
There is one thing that I just wanted to add to his original question relating to the boarding home.
I mentioned this yesterday that all the boarding home costs are currently covered by Health Canada under the Non Insured Health Benefits Program.
If there is a need to expand to build a new program, we have to negotiate the rates with Health Canada before we can expand or construct a new facility.
And I just want to make sure that the members are clear that projects for boarding homes are contingent upon Health Canada agreeing to the set rates. So that is also another consideration that we have to make in dealing with the boarding home issue.
As it relates to his last question, it is a complex response and it relates to four levels and I will get Bernie to explain those four levels.
The continuing care is basically a continuum of services from a lower-end requirement to a 24/7 nursing care which would be in any particular facility.
The two current continuing care facilities that we had proposed would be what I would consider a high-end category 4 role where it would be nursing care 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
Also there would be attendants on duty as well continuing care attendants that would be trained to provide certain levels of care as well.
Then we have the long-term care facility which would be similar to those in Arviat.
They may have high-end clients but for the most part the clients would be at a lower level of care.
Often we may have a resident nurse that would come in during certain hours of the day to provide that service as we do also here in Iqaluit and the rest of the time there would be attendants in place to provide the support for those residents 24 hours a day.
We also have things like group homes as well which are a continuing care type of environment for either adults or children who require some medical support for the most part either it can be physically or mentally challenged, and those are provided 24 hours a day by attendants who may or may not be necessarily have been trained at this point in time and that is something that we are working on.
Also, we will have what we call residential care and those are people who can live on their own, elders or otherwise, and we have such a facility in Rankin Inlet where we have moved a few of our clients out of the group home into one where a resident would be supported and homecare people would go in every day and provide support for those individuals.
What I alluded to yesterday is that senior residents, which are basically people who are independent, that require minimal care.
So continuing care is all of those things, but the one that we are talking about is 24/7; those are the ones that we are building. The two would be the higher-end facilities.
Thanks again Madame Minister and Mr. Blais.
I had another question but he answered that question.
We have a building in Kugluktuk that has four units; it’s a fourplex elders’ home, which is a place where they can look after themselves.
When the elders no longer can look after themselves, they are sent out of our community and out of the territories. That is why we have been trying to ask for a 24-hour care facility in Kugluktuk. That always comes up in every constituency meeting in my home community.
Many projects for a group home are listed in the 2005-06 capital estimates. Can the minister provide an update on the 24-hour care facility that is currently providing service in Nunavut?
How many clients are being served?
Yesterday a question around elders’ housing was also raised and I think sometimes there’s confusion on houses that were originally built by the Housing Corporation for seniors. In Gjoa Haven, as an example, there is a fourplex with common hallways for the elders’ facility and it is designed to be more structurally suitable for seniors.
These are different from what we describe as the 24-hour facilities.
Bernie has just elaborated on the types of service provided. All the facilities provide 24 hours, seven days a week service. And this differs depending on the type of level or type of facility they operate.
Yesterday I mentioned in Nunavut that there are ten facilities that range from group homes to mental health facilities to people at the high-end that Bernie described. One example is the Naja Isabella Home in Chesterfield Inlet and the home that Bernie also described for Rankin Inlet.
So that is what’s in Nunavut today. Even with those facilities, we are not able to accommodate every single need in Nunavut.
We also have programs in place to provide assistance to elders through home care services. Sometimes, the member is correct, elders require additional care and the facilities that we have don’t accommodate everything they’ll need, which is why we have to go out-of-territory to look for space that can provide the service that the patient may require.
That I hope answers the question. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Evyagotailak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks again, Ms. Minister.
As you know that fourplex in our community is mainly for elders who can look after themselves.
There is another elder that just lives out of the fourplex unit because he couldn’t look after himself.
He is different because his daughter decided to take him to her home.
That is why the people are asking for a 24-hour care facility in my community, that is why I keep bringing this up.
My next question is: has the Government of Nunavut repatriated any Nunavummiut who receive long-term care outside of Nunavut?
As it is right now, the department is visiting all the individuals that are receiving care outside of the territory. Some have been away from the territory since birth, some have recently been sent out of the territory.
There are 56 individuals that we have visited that require certain types of care and one of the things that we are doing is to try and get a real assessment in place to have a good understanding of what all of the needs are of these individuals.
Some needs in Nunavut...maybe we could accommodate all 56, but I don’t know if we can accommodate all 56 people and their patient care needs, which is why we are going through the assessments.
One of the things that we have also looked at internally is to provide as much support to individuals in the community as possible and we have expanded the homecare support program in the communities.
So to answer the question, have we taken back patients from out of jurisdiction; we don’t have the facilities as it is right now. We are moving forward with those two high-end facilities for Gjoa Haven and Igloolik but until such time those facilities are in place we will not be able to repatriate people from out-of-territory.
So as it is right now, we are unable to meet the demand of needs with our current facilities.
Can the minister provide an update on the estimated needs for 24-hour care across Nunavut?
As I mentioned we are in the process of assessing the 56 and we know 56 require care as it is right now.
My last question to the minister: can the minister provide an update on what specific plans are in place or under consideration for delivering more services in Nunavut to youth that require 24-hour care?
The facilities that we announced and the criteria that we used to determine the needs for the two facilities that we announced include youth.
Mr. Evyagotailak (interpretation) has no further questions.
As I was listening to my colleague ask his question, I started to get a little depressed thinking of all the needs across Nunavut.
I wouldn’t want to be in the minister’s shoes because there are a lot of pressing needs in all of our communities for whatever, for group homes, continuing care, seniors’ homes, you name it. We have a lot of people.
I know that my constituents are praying for the same kind of things as my colleagues around the table here. So it’s something that we have to really look at and I hope in the future all of these new regional health centres, by bringing care closer to home, results in savings that we can turn around and reinvest into facilities to help people by opening up these facilities.
I want to follow-up a little on my colleague. There are a couple questions. Last year, we visited the boarding home in Yellowknife.
At the time, Mr. Blais said it was around four years until the lease expired and then you were going to start looking at whether to construct or lease a new one.
In the intervening time I have had an opportunity to talk to a lot of my constituents, I have met a few in a boarding home, and I encourage them to come back and give me reports, send emails, call me, or send a relative in to see me.
Some of my older constituents have accidents in that facility; slipping in the bathtub and they can’t sit down on the toilet properly, or they can’t get up the stairs or open the doors.
While I appreciate the facility is 20 years old, I really truly believe that if we’re going to have a facility in Yellowknife, that we have to build a modern one similar to the facility that exists in Edmonton, where I never hear a complaint.
Everybody would rather go to Edmonton if they have to go anywhere, than go to Yellowknife.
Going back to May, we had a discussion on leases that were two or three years away from expiry.
We have to start now, start the planning now, as to what type of facility is going to be used in Yellowknife for patients from the Kitikmeot that don’t go to the health facility in Cambridge Bay, otherwise, you’re going to be caught in a situation where you’re going to possibly have to extend that lease or renew that lease for a facility that isn’t up to standards.
They were up to standards of maybe 20 years ago, but they’re clearly not up to standards today.
I talked to the operator of that facility and he gets a lot of complaints.
He said that they’re unfairly targeted at him. He’s just the operator of the facility; he’s not the owner of the facilitym, and he says it’s up to the government or the owner of the facility to make improvements.
Could the minister comment on how seriously they’re looking at building a new facility, or leasing a new facility, or making basic improvements to the current facility so that patients from the Kitikmeot are safer and healthier in that facility when they do have to travel to Yellowknife?
I do have constituents also that use that same facility and they share these constituents’ concerns also.
One of the things we need to do in any boarding home building, or before we build, or decide to build is that Health Canada covers the cost of all the boarding homes in Nunavut and outside of Nunavut.
So before we proceed with any construction or renovations, or what have you, we continually need to negotiate with Health Canada the new rates to operate a facility. So that’s one piece of the bigger picture.
The other thing that we’re doing as a department across Nunavut is we are developing boarding home standards. One operator in Edmonton versus Ottawa or here, they don’t necessarily always operate those facilities consistently.
So we’ve formed a task group to look at developing standards so that a Nunavummiut that goes to a boarding home in Edmonton, Ottawa, here, Rankin Inlet, or Cambridge Bay, knows what each centre provides and know up front the level of service to expect from the people operating those facilities.
So that’s another piece that we’re looking at for operating boarding homes and how serious we are in terms of looking at dealing with the Yellowknife situation.
We know there are concerns there.
We don’t know exactly at this point in time what impact the Kitikmeot’s new facilities or hospital will have in terms of the usage of the boarding home in Yellowknife. So we have about a year to basically, not a year, actually a couple of years to get a better handle on that.
We have had that interest in looking at that also conveyed to us at the AGM in Cambridge Bay, through KIA. At that time I stated that I am open to all discussions and all options around that facility whether it be the Cambridge facility or Rankin facility or any facility.
At the end of the day, whatever we decide, the rates have to be approved by Health Canada and are contingent on Health Canada approving a certain rate for the type or the size of a boarding home facility that we operate.
I am hoping, by us having this discussion now while we are three years away from the lease expiring or two years away from the lease expiring, that it will give you plenty of time to make plans for a new facility in Yellowknife or an upgraded facility for folks.
People keep asking me and I have to try to give them answers.
The facility in Cambridge Bay is right across from my office and I always point out to people when they come to tell me about problems that is going to be a future boarding home. They don’t know how many people it is going to accommodate and how it will work. How many patients around the region do you anticipate at that boarding home when it is fully operational?
The facility will have 16 beds.
Mr. Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Madame Minister.
When you say 16 beds, will that necessarily include beds for entire families if they have to come in with a patient from out of town? A mother or father has to accompany their child, or maybe bring two kids with them. Would it be that type of facility?
The facility will be for the patients and escorts.
Again, just for certainty purposes: in your presentation yesterday you said you anticipate the centre will be ready in early 2007 and I know you don’t have any control over that.
I have various pieces of correspondence back home in my files from the former minister and from yourself Mr. Blais saying that the facility will be ready at a certain time in 2004, 2005 or 2006, and now you are saying in 2007.
Can you give me a precise day or anything that I can tell the hamlet or people, that it will be open by such and such a date, guaranteed?
I can’t guarantee a date. I gave an approximate date, I mean last week, two weeks ago I mentioned to the member the Health staff would move into the Cambridge Bay health facility on November 2 because the fire marshall’s report is not going through the system quickly. That date is now to this week.
I don’t want to specify a certain date but after the sealift of the equipment that is required and then give or take a few months to construct, we can give an approximate date of 2007. But I cannot pinpoint an exact date.
I probably knew you couldn’t do that but I said give me a date in 2007.
In the interim I take it that the patients will be accommodated in the local hotels. Has your department conducted any sort of assessment of the local capability for hotels to accommodate patients given that it’s a regional centre?
You’ve got a lot of other travelers coming to Cambridge Bay; business travelers, government travelers and then you have patients.
If you’re going to have 16 patients at any given time, I don’t know if the hotels can handle all patients, plus all the regular business travelers that come to Cambridge Bay.
Earlier a member from Kugluktuk asked the question: will services be available immediately at the centre in Cambridge Bay?
We’re looking at a 12-month period before we’re fully operational in delivering services out of that centre. So 12 months from now, also related to the facility is the boarding home, so there won’t be too much of an overlap of time, or of the use of hotels for a boarding home.
In terms of what have we looked at, other facilities for accommodations, we will be doing a request for proposals for private billets as well as for hotels for Cambridge Bay in the interim before the boarding home is constructed. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I’m sure it will be well received back home.
Just to follow up on my colleague from Kugluktuk’s question about the old health centre, I wanted to make the minister aware that the Hamlet of Cambridge Bay has expressed an interest in using that facility.
Their problem is that they don’t have any money to buy it.
That’s their problem and they’re looking ahead, I guess, to next year as well.
As I mentioned yesterday, if the facility is going to become the boarding home, the facility that they currently use for their alcohol treatment programs and their anger management workshops, and so on; when that facility is taken out, when it becomes unavailable, they won’t have a facility to offer those kinds of services.
I would encourage the minister and the Minister of Community and Government Services to be open to approaches by the Mayor and Hamlet of Cambridge Bay to somehow use that old facility.
When I say old, I mean old. It was built in 1958.
So it’s old for a building, not old for a human being, but old for a building in the Arctic. I encourage the Minister of Community and Government Services to be open to their approaches.
I would like to ask the minister if the existing continuing care facility that you’ve made mention of, the group home. What year was that built?
I don’t have that information but I can certainly provide it to the member tomorrow.
Mr. Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’m thinking it’s probably close to 20 years old.
It was probably built with a 20-year usage in mind. It can accommodate six kids.
I think we have probably 20 to 30 kids in town that need that kind of service and I’m thinking if you’re paying $45 a day for foster care, that’s a lot of money every year.
Would it not be better to use some of that money to construct or expand that existing facility?
I think we’re not, as it is right now, the needs are greater than what we’re able to accommodate in capital projects.
The other area that we’ve also been looking at in trying to provide this type of service is increasing the rate to foster parents.
At the same time we’ve made special provisions in the foster care rates to accommodate children with disabilities as well. We’ve looked at expanding supported living in the communities, as well as home care.
We recognize that we are not able to meet all the construction needs for capital projects to meet the needs currently in providing services to youth, or elders, or persons with disabilities.
So we’ve been approaching it at different levels.