EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Members were also pleased to learn of proposed increases in base funding assistance at both ends of the schooling spectrum; increased funding for daycares and increases in the amount of funding available for post-secondary students receiving financial assistance.
The committee supports the department’s commitment to provide support to Nunavut students at all stages of their development.
I am sure that the individual members will have questions and comments as we proceed.
Before we proceed with the committee’s business, I would like to remind members that we are considering Bill 6, Appropriation Act, operations and maintenance and budget for each department and not the Capital Estimates.
So I would ask members to keep the questions focused on issues relating to O&M.
Before we proceed with questions for the minister on his department’s Main Estimates I would like to ask if the members have any general comments to make.
Let me remind you that in accordance with rule 77(1) you have 10 minutes to speak and I would also like to remind you that in accordance with rule 77(2), subject to the discretion of the Chair, a member may speak more than once to a matter under discussion but not until every member wishing to speak has spoken.
This is to ensure that there are no questions relating to the Capital Estimates.
We are discussing education matters.
If you have any comments the floor is open to members.
Welcome to this meeting.
Our children are very important as they are our future and we all have school age children, so it’s our concern to talk about that.
We probably have different concerns regarding education.
As for myself, I would like to say that for Inuit like my generation, and the people I’m representing, that in regards to education I would like to say first of all, that everyone reiterates the importance of the Inuit language.
I see that 500 thousand dollars is in the education budget for language purposes in this fiscal year.
Teachers have stated it before and in the communities the DEAs are saying that if we use the Inuit language more in our homes, then more youth will be able to use the Inuktitut language.
To cite myself and my family as an example, none of my forefathers were able to speak English, not my parents nor my relatives could speak English back then.
That was when we started to be taught in school and today I’m able to use both languages.
This is how education is important.
At home, I never, not even once, heard any English words and all conversations were in my language.
This is why I don’t need an interpreter, because I was taught English at school and I kept up Inuktitut at home.
This is why education is important, education in English and Inuktitut have to be equal and on par with one another, especially at the beginning in kindergarten to grade 12, that they have equal opportunities to learn English and Inuktitut.
And the Inuktitut language and culture should not be less than the English skills they are taking.
Sometimes when we go to a school, Arctic Bay for example as it is the community with which I am most familiar, it is sad to see when you go into some of the schools as there are not enough Inuktitut teaching and learning materials.
Sometimes they make paper airplanes because they lack the proper materials in the classrooms, and here they are, supposedly learning Inuit culture and language.
I know the smaller communities aren’t visited very often by headquarters’ staff and they don’t come to the smaller communities often.
It is difficult to know if the headquarter staff have any empathy as we do not see them very often.
If you travelled to the smaller communities, you would find out more about what resources are lacking in each classroom.
And the minister also states there are more students enrolling in schools.
I am glad that this is so and that the children are in school.
I didn’t hear anyone reporting on the community school counsellors since there are more students in schools and some of the students are suffering through overcrowding and lack of space.
Due to this lack of space and attention, most children start to misbehave.
The teachers end up babysitting other people’s children, and not really teaching due to this lack of materials.
Since the students are increasing every year there should be more community school counsellors in the classrooms.
Having a good life with strong support from each parent is very important to one’s ability to learn in the education system.
These are two items that I wanted to bring up here.
I am glad to see that there will be money available that will be used in the classrooms and for our students, and especially the mothers that are in school will be able to get help.
I would also like to see school community counsellors being supported from DEAs in the classroom.
I would like to remind you that the students in our communities are very important.
This way they will be happier in the classroom with proper skills and proper teaching materials.
We have learned from our parents and our parents didn’t have much experience in the classroom but they knew what to do.
As for those of us who have been in schools, there are more and more skilled people even older people like us.
As for counselling in the classroom, according to the number of students in the classroom every year, the school community counsellors should also increase ratio-wise so the students can be helped.
Education is very important in every community and we have really good schools.
We are grateful for these facilities.
In Grise Fiord, for example, since there was an increase in the classrooms in Grise Fiord, I am happy to say that things have improved a lot and also Resolute Bay will soon have additional classrooms.
These are the types of initiatives I would encourage and would ask others to encourage as well.
These are the two items that I wanted to bring up; the Inuktitut language and the classroom counsellors.
The problem lies with the parents who, when the children are home from school, there is not enough communication in Inuktitut.
When the children are not using their language at home, people are saying that they are not able to speak it in the classroom.
It is not so, we can all learn, they can learn because our fathers did not speak English.
Chairperson (interpretation): Right now we are on general comments.
I will leave room for that, but I prefer to deal with questions at a later time.
Mr. Havioyak (interpretation): I just want to make a brief comment.
I am in support of what was said earlier today, especially in relation to language.
I am glad that the Budget has been increased for this area.
The DEAs in the communities can use this funding.
We are growing rapidly; we know that the numbers of our youth are increasing rapidly, that the classrooms are not big enough, especially in the smaller communities.
This causes problems as the students are crowded.
There are hardly any materials and I am glad that they are being helped in teaching.
I am happy to hear, this is a positive thing that we are hearing.
In programs and services, I just wanted to say a few things.
The students at NTEP, they go to school all the time.
They go to school for three years to attain their teaching licenses, and if I am wrong, you can let me know.
I know that the people in university, through venues such as the McGill University Agreement, assist our people.
We want to see the agreements in place to train our people.
As we are a new government we have to work together and we will move forward.
I would like to see the agreements be applied to us.
We know that the Inuit teachers are increasing within Nunavut.
Sometimes there have been problems when they want to get into universities to get their degrees, they are turned down and told we cannot accept you because you have not finished school.
I just want to use this for an example.
In this case, the Inuit are told, although they have a teaching license, they are not real teachers as they do not have a degree.
I am using this example so that we can rectify the future problems we may face.
I look at the future and an example such as in Pond Inlet, the primary school is entirely composed of Inuit teachers and we can follow them as an example.
The Inuit teachers, we envy them because they are the only group of entirely Inuit teachers in Nunavut.
We have to be proud of them.
I am going to be asking questions about that under the programs and services in regards to Education.
This last comment I would like to make is about the writing system in the schools.
Do you know that our writing system in Kugluktuk, it seems that there are two systems there?
One is the new writing system and the old version of the writing system is still there.
I am going to be speaking about this and the schools that are using them right now; I am going to be asking questions on that.
If we don’t get clarification on these things, we are not happy with having two writing systems.
Our children are small and they want to learn.
They will be wondering why, as they’re walking down the street, which system am I going to be using in the writing system.
Should I be using this writing system, or shouldn’t I be using this writing system.
It seems like there are two versions of the writing system, so I’d like to ask questions about that.
Just one thing, in regards to income support, 740 thousand dollars was allocated for this year.
I’m happy for that figure but in the long run I’ll be asking the minister about this and what programs we’ll be using the budget for.
I’d like to get clarification on this a little later on when we ask questions.
These are a few comments that I wanted to make today.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Havioyak, we will go back to this discussion during the question period.
I have a very short comment.
I’m one of the people from Nunavut, I’m Inuk, and I am unilingual.
I have been using the language for more than ten years.
I grew up with it.
Sometimes because we, the Inuit, in my community for example, some people would ask, why aren’t our students taught in English intensively initially and then taught Inuktitut later.
And the parents are questioning why our students don’t get a good education in English so that they can hold a good job and then when they grow up they can learn their own language.
These two languages have to be equal.
As for myself, I believe that when we look at the world, the Japanese for example, the other people in the world, they respect their own language and they protect their language and culture in the classrooms and it’s good to see that.
This is what I would like to see in my community.
Even if somebody is against me, I will be able to stand up for my rights, to protect my language and culture, especially within our capacity as members representing our people.
As members here, we believe what Ms. Williams was saying that her parents didn’t know any English and she was taught in the Inuit way and she’s able to speak English today.
Many young people in Nunavut have children, they are parents.
In the Kitikmeot for example, there are young parents who are not using the Inuktitut language because the parents are not speaking it.
The children will not be able to understand and use the Inuit language.
We have to be able to be strong.
Many of us want to be strong in keeping our language and culture alive.
Some people would say let us hire somebody to do an Inuktitut-only school.
Hire somebody who doesn’t speak English at all.
This is what I heard in some communities.
Therefore I would like to support the Inuit languages, Inuinnaqtun and Inuktitut.
We must be able to hear it and see it in Nunavut.
Yesterday a member said that letters for example in the meeting room here, just seeing the written information is helpful.
Is it written in our language, I don’t see any Inuktitut language, is this an Inuit homeland?
Things like coffee that we are getting, water, hot chocolate, in Inuit communities there are no Inuktitut terms for them on the menu.
Unless we start gathering the terms in Nunavut we are not going to get anywhere.
So therefore we must be able to start seeing Inuktitut written materials.
If we keep waiting, then all of the problems we are alluding to will only be deferred.
Therefore, I would like to make the Inuktitut language strong because we respect it and we want it to be here.
Not just to respect it but we must want to keep it.
Just a short addition to this, the students in our communities who graduated from grade 12 sometimes take further education, like with Nunavut Sivuniksavut.
There is no room for them and they would be on a waiting list.
They would have learned more if there was room for them.
There might be somebody who wants to take further education but they are on the waiting list because there is no room in the classroom for higher education.
Usually places where young people go to, in one of my communities and especially in kindergarten we are pushing to have the lower grades be taught solely in Inuktitut.
In regards to the daycare centres we have very well established daycares in our communities.
But I think there have to be childcare workers whose mother tongue is Inuktitut or Inuinnaqtut.
Unilingual Inuit should be hired in daycares so that they can teach proper Inuktitut to the children that they care for.
Mr. Chairman, I will be asking questions later on.
Very briefly I would like to make general comments about the teaching of Inuktitut in the school system.
We want to preserve the Inuktitut language and there are a lot of teaching subjects that we can cover in the school system today.
We have to teach the school children the culture that is no longer practiced today, the traditions and skills of the Inuit that are no longer being practiced.
We can cover subjects such as hunting techniques and building shelters in this harsh environment, especially survival techniques in the winter.
And also there should be an Inuktitut school built in one of the Nunavut communities, it would be a good place as a starting point for the younger generation to learn these life skills, survival skills and so on.
We’re not teaching enough of those to the children.
It’s possible, but they have to be taught properly in order to survive in this harsh environment.
We can use examples of qamutik building, making winter clothing, the tanning of skins and other techniques that have to be taught to the schools.
Making kamiiks and women’s traditional skills could be taught in the schools.
And also for the boys or young men, their traditional skills that they needed a long time ago.
They can learn through theory or through hands on experiences.
We could also, as an example, in the Kitikmeot the majority of the population tend to speak in English because of course their parents are speaking in English.
It’s passed on to the younger generation.
Using myself as an example, I don’t speak English but my children are speaking more and more English and my adopted child speaks also in English when I don’t. So we have to place a priority on building an Inuktitut school to teach our younger generation. From my perspective that would be a priority.
In the school, everything would be conducted in Inuktitut. Usually what happens is when school children start going to school, they are unilingual. They only speak Inuktitut and then they go into the school stream, learn English and then forget their Inuktitut.
I think the only remedy to this situation is to build an Inuktitut school where nothing but Inuktitut would be used in that particular school.
We’ll be going to questions after general comments.
I will give Mr. Iqaqrialu an opportunity at this point.
Those are very interesting subjects that were brought up by the members under general comments and I do not want to repeat what was already said around the table.
But I would like to say, I don’t know how many years now, there have been a lot of school children who drop out without completing their grade twelve.
I think we shouldn’t just let them fall through the cracks.
We should give them an opportunity and as a newly created Nunavut Government we see that only well educated people can be employed.
Looking at it from the other point of view there are a lot of school drop-outs out there.
They are from Nunavut; they have not completed their education in either Inuktitut or English.
They are not well educated in either language and looking at it from that point I think that we should give every opportunity to the students who dropped out because they are able to become good workers.
They can become auto-mechanics, they can become carpenters, they can be boiler maintainers, and they can become electricians.
We can find jobs for those people who have not completed their grade 12.
We should also be considering them.
And today, as Members of the Legislative Assembly, I believe we all have children that we’ve left behind at home, we don’t get to spend a lot of time with them.
As Members of the Legislative Assembly, our children tend to do whatever they want when we leave them at home.
If they want to do well in school, they do well in school, but young people tend to want to do what they want at all times.
So, we are part of the problem instead of part of the solution.
We all have children and our spouses that we leave at home who we would like to be with.
We as parents want to be good parents but we’re not always there for our children.
What can we do today as Members of the Legislative Assembly about the children that we leave for weeks at a time at home?
And I don’t think we’re the only ones who do that.
There are a lot of people in Nunavut who are travelling around all over the place leaving their children behind and not being there to guide them.
We’re just going to be paying lip service to the children out there when we say they have to have a good education and when we’re not leading by example, we have to factor those things in also because it’s very important to be there for our children.
There are many of our children who have not completed their education.
Some are young and some are in their 20’s who because of a lack of guidance have just dropped out without completing whatever they’re doing.
We have to give them an opportunity.
We have to look at all Nunavummiut and support them however we can and not exclude people who drop-out.
We should be including everybody and there were times when we were told that we couldn’t do it.
We are now in a civilized world.
We live in heated homes.
We are provided services that we pay for and these have made a big impact in our lives.
Today we are not simply living off the land anymore, as our parents did and as we did as children.
We are now wage earners.
We can access money through the income support system in order to live today.
So we have to look at how we can fix it up so it’s better for the people of Nunavut.
And with the global warming there are going to be more and more precarious situations.
Let’s take Iqaluit for example, the ice out there might look solid but there are soft spots covered by snow with slush underneath.
More and more of this is happening as global warming becomes more intense.
We have seen a lot of changes in ice conditions as our climate gets warmer.
We are already in a precarious stage with the ice thinner today than it was just a few years ago.
It used to be that only ice with heavy snow was thin.
Today there is less surface snow, but the ice is thinner as a result of rapid change in climate.
Survival skills and knowing what is dangerous out there in the environment and the migration of animals, all these things have to be taught in the schools.
We have to look at what changes we can make; things that are relevant to the lifestyle of the people of Nunavut.
I don’t have too many questions but I wanted to include these issues in my general comments.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman for giving me the opportunity.
We have a 10 minute limit for general comments.
I don’t know where to start with this department.
Members know that education has been one of the top two priorities of mine since day one.
In reviewing and hearing the minister’s opening comments, even though this department has been one of the most funded departments within the government, I think we have heard right from day one that even though the funding that it gets, it is still under funded.
As a result of that, the quality and the level of education that is being provided to our young people is suffering.
I think that is something as long as we continue and again I see here another, we are just keeping more of the same in this budget.
Those things aren’t going to change.
I think this Assembly, and not only the Minister of Education, I am sure he asked for more money than he got, this Assembly and the government have to put its money where its mouth is and look at making some fundamental changes to this system.
You look at the quality of education.
How can you expect a child to get a good quality education when the pupil-teacher ratio is 30 plus to 1?
Basically it’s, I think someone used the term earlier, babysitting.
You know it is almost impossible to address the needs of that many kids.
I really look forward in seeing this government take the bold steps like the NWT did in introducing and legislating class sizes and PTRs.
I think that would go a long ways in showing that we are serious about addressing this issue because what I see here is just more of the same.
There are more students so we’ll just up it a little bit more to meet that need and everything is going to stay the same.
It is not doing these kids, our kids, our future any good.
Unless we make some changes to that we are going to have a continual substandard level of education, and like I said hiding behind excuses and all kinds of fluff that there are reasons to kind of justify why.
We are kidding ourselves.
We have to do something to improve the quality of education in Nunavut.
Otherwise we are always going to see a revolving door of people from outside of Nunavut coming in and taking the higher jobs that Nunavummiut will never under this system, be able to have the quality of education that they need to be able to take those jobs.
We have to ensure that we provide our young people with the tools that they need today to do the jobs that we are going to want them to do in the future.
When you look at the percentage of our population that is young, can we afford not to do this?
Fifty percent of the kids that go into Grade 10 drop out.
That is an indication that there is a problem here you guys.
Maybe we should take a good look at it and figure out what it is.
We have a way that the schools are funded through per capita funding.
All we are limited to now is a basically academically structured system.
Fifty percent of those kids, I know that when I was going to school, if they did not have courses like pre-trades, building construction, or shop programs, I would not have stayed in school as long as I did.
I could guarantee you that that percentage of drop-out rate in Grade 10 would change if those types of programs were offered through the high schools to these kids.
They are falling though the cracks.
They are being set up right from day one to be forced to drop out because they aren’t qualified.
They haven’t been given the tools necessary to be where they are.
We heard comments earlier on the different language dreams.
The quality between both is not the same.
I could say that we probably are not doing a good enough job as we should be teaching either language.
I don’t blame at all the teachers and the educators on the ground.
They are doing everything they can with what limited resources they have.
It is not their fault that they are stuck in a class of thirty to one.
It is not their fault that they don’t have the curriculum or the material to, at the same level, to provide their children an Inuktitut stream.
That is not their fault.
For years and I know that it is probably something that we inherited from the NWT, go ahead and have an Inuktitut stream but there was no real resources dedicated to ensuring that there are resources there to teach so that stream was going to be at the same level as an English stream.
They do it in other countries, why can’t we do it here?
Again these things need to be addressed if we are going to have the same, they should be the same, and there should be no difference.