EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
That list, when we voted on it in capital, we voted on the capital money itself and not necessarily those that were on the potential as they are not included in there.
Thank you for that explanation. It starts to become clearer and clearer, but I guess it goes back to what I was talking about in my Member’s Statement. I think I understand.
In terms of small capital, there is a potential list of where the money could be spent. Depending on emergencies, I know budgets would have to be moved around.
I think that’s the flexibility that I was talking about in my Member’s Statement.
But going back to Mr. Aupaluktuq’s fire truck, it was actually in the hard and not the potential list for the 2009-2010 that a fire truck was needed.
Now going back to my question about what research is done before the capitals come before us, did no one… . He was apologizing.
I don’t know if it’s right to apologize, but did no one go talk to the fire marshal before they decided that the fire truck was needed?
The research wasn’t done before it was actually put into the capital plans. To me, the answer you gave sounded like, “It was in the capital plan and we had to take it off because the fire marshal said that the fire truck was fine.”
Why wasn’t the fire marshal consulted before it ended up before the House?
Hon. Lorne Kusugak: I didn’t hear a supplementary to the first question.
Is it another question to Mr. Aupaluktuq’s question? Could you clarify that, Mr. Speaker?
Speaker (interpretation): Minister, I believe he was asking questions about the capital projects as his supplementary.
If that’s not the case, then he can rephrase his question.
I was asking questions in terms of starting from the beginning, in terms of the capital, how capital is spent and how it goes through the House. I was asking for clarification.
That’s the carryover from yesterday and I was using the bulldozer as an example; it just sort of fell in that there are capital questions about that as well.
So again, I just find it amazing that information is collected and gathered, it’s put in here, and then after the fact, people are consulted that maybe should have been consulted before.
Again, that’s for small capital projects. Mr. Kusugak.
Hon. Lorne Kusugak: When we made the change for the Baker Lake fire truck through the capital, we went through the proper notification of the chair of the appropriate committee and we went through the proper procedures in deciding to reallocate those funds, Mr. Speaker.
The minister that I want to ask questions to is not in the House, so I will pass for now.
Question 145 – 3(2): Appointment of New Chair of the Nunavut Wildlife Management Board (Okalik)
The Nunavut Wildlife Management Board hasn’t had a permanent chair for quite a long time and they have very large responsibilities.
They currently have an acting chair and that is hindering the planning process for the future.
Could you have a discussion with your federal counterpart to make sure that the Nunavut Wildlife Management Board gets a permanent position or could you give us an update on the status of getting a chair for the NWMB?
The member brings up a very important point in wildlife management in Nunavut.
There has been an absence of a permanent chair at the NWMB and there has been an acting chair. There has been somebody selected, from my understanding, on the NWMB as a chair but has not been appointed by the federal government yet. That’s the status of where they are, I believe.
I also believe that they are also having some other staff capacity problems at the NWMB, but it is very important that that board functions as it is for wildlife management decisions to be made in Nunavut.
Is it possible for the minister to further task his federal counterparts to ensure that this position is filled?
It seems to have been empty for quite a while and the duties of the NWMB are becoming backlogged as more items arrive monthly, yet they have to work on these matters if they are to progress.
That is why I am asking if the minister can encourage his federal counterparts to appoint a Nunavummiuq to that position, regardless of whom it is.
Yes, I will be interacting with the federal Minister of Environment on several occasions coming up and I will assure the member that I will advise him of our priority to have that position appointed.
Mr. Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Please inform the federal minister to appoint a Nunavummiuq to the chair so that we can truly believe in the NWMB and its duties as representing Nunavut.
I will pass on that message. I just want to ensure here that the Nunavut Wildlife Management Board is its own entity and they’re responsible for hiring and who they hire too, but I will definitely pass on that message.
Question 146 – 3(2): No Furniture in New Health Centre in Pangnirtung (Komoartok)
I would like to clarify firstly that I will be asking a slightly different question after I pose my first question. This question will be directed to the Minister of Health and Social Services.
In Pangnirtung, the new health centre was constructed and completed over the winter, in February 2009 as a matter of fact.
The building and code inspections were completed and it passed all of the inspections at that time.
During our spring session, I spoke to the issue where I asked about the furniture and equipment and whether it would make it on the 2009 sealift to our community. The expected materials never arrived. Although several ships made it into our community, none of the equipment made it up to our community during that sealift.
I would like to thank the Minister of Community and Government Services for explaining via correspondence that the Department of Health and Social Services will be responsible for the shipment of the furniture.
It stated that the furniture and other equipment would be arriving over the winter, but they would have to be shipped up via air cargo as no cargo ships traverse our waters when the sea ice forms.
The health centre is a brand-new building and our residents would like to utilize it as it ought to have been completed and open quite a while ago. Our old health centre is packed and running out of space.
So my question to the minister is: when can our community expect to start seeing the furniture that was promised? As it will not arrive via ship, will it be shipped up via air cargo?
Thank you for posing that question.
We have been apprised of the situation.
As per our written correspondence to the member, we did state that our expectations were that the health centre would open this fall. We had expected the furniture and equipment to arrive via sealift over the summer season.
Due to delays in the shipment of materials, it appears that our next option will be to start shipping the necessary equipment and furniture during the month of January.
Our expectations are that this new health centre will be fully operational by February. Once the equipment and materials have been packaged properly for shipment and are shipped to the community, we should be able to open the health centre in February to look after the health needs of your residents.
Our plans are that the shipments will commence and be completed in January, Mr. Speaker.
Question 147 – 3(2): Number of School Buses in Pond Inlet (Arvaluk)
I want to ask a short question.
If the Minister of Education can respond, I would like to ask him a question.
Last fall, I raised a question to the officials of the minister’s department and their response was that Pond Inlet was requesting a smaller size bus.
When I heard that response, I was happy to go home as I now had an answer.
However, upon my return, as I usually meet with the local organizations, such as the education committee chair, the DEA chairperson stated that the reason why they didn’t want to get a bigger bus is because the old roads have blind corners. They wanted two small buses due to the dangers posed by these old roads.
Why were they given only one small bus when they requested two small buses that would be equivalent to one big bus? That’s what they requested at the beginning.
Hon. Louis Tapardjuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the member for asking that question.
We just followed the application or the proposal.
I can’t respond to his question at this time, so I would like to take his question as notice and I will get back to him as soon as possible.
I don’t know why the community received only one bus when they requested for two buses, so I will have to get back to his question, Mr. Speaker.
Your question has been taken as notice, Mr. Arvaluk.
Question 148 – 3(2): Long Gun Registry (Okalik)
The federal government had recently made a vote on the gun registry.
I was pleased to hear that, but I did not hear the Nunavut government’s position on that issue.
So I would like to ask the Minister of Justice what the Nunavut government will be doing in regard to gun registration.
It’s the first time anyone has asked me about our position.
I am pleased to tell the member that we support the private member’s bill that is before the federal government.
I imagine that the bill will be referred to the House of Commons standing committee for review.
I would like to ask the minister if they are going to appear before that House of Commons standing committee to lobby for that change to the legislation.
I haven’t been invited to appear before the standing committee. I’m not aware of us making inquiries about appearing either, but I can check on that and get back to the member.
At this time, we have no plans to appear.
If there are no more questions, Item 7.
Tabled Document 066 – 3(2): 2008-2009 Lease Activity Report (Kusugak)
Lease Activity Report 2008-09
Tabled Document 067 – 3(2): A booklet on “A Property Owner’s Guide to Contaminated Site Remediation in Nunavut” (Shewchuk)
I am pleased to table a booklet on “A Property Owner’s Guide to Contaminated Site Remediation in Nunavut.”
Tabled Document 068 – 3(2): Report on the Paris Air Show 2009 Trade Mission (Taptuna)
I am pleased to table the Report on the Paris Air Show 2009 Trade Mission.
Minister Hunter Tootoo.
Tabled Document 069 – 3(2): Nunavut Housing Corporation’s Strategic Plan for the Period 2010-2030, “Building Futures Together: Working Document” (Tootoo)
I am very pleased to be able to table the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s Strategic Plan for the Period 2010-30, “Building Futures Together: Working Document, November 19, 2009.” I also would like to thank all of the individuals who helped put this together.
Tabled Document 070 – 3(2): 2008-2009 Annual Report Nunavut Arctic College (Shewchuk)
I am pleased to table the Annual Report 2008-2009 for Nunavut Arctic College.
Tabled Document 071 – 3(2): 2008-2009 Pension Administration Report (Speaker)
Tabled Document 072 – 3(2): 2008-2009 Audited Financial Statements of the Retiring Allowances Fund (Speaker)
Tabled Document 073 – 3(2): 2008-2009 Audited Financial Statements of the Supplementary Retiring Allowances Fund (Speaker)
As required by the Legislative Assembly’s Retiring Allowances Act and the Supplementary Retiring Allowances Act, I wish to table today the pension administration report for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2009.
As required by the Legislative Assembly’s Retiring Allowances Act, I wish to table today the audited financial statements of the Retiring Allowances Fund for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2009.
As required by the Supplementary Retiring Allowances Act, I wish to table today the audited financial statements of the Supplementary Retiring Allowances Fund for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2009.
Bill 11 – The Order of Nunavut Act – First Reading
Mr. Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (interpretation ends) It gives me great pleasure to move the following motion, seconded by the Hon. Member for Quttiktuq, that Bill 11, The Order of Nunavut Act, be read for the first time and the first time from this side. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Bills 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 with Mr. Schell in the Chair.
>>House recessed at 14:51 and Committee resumed at 15:24
Chairman (Mr. Schell): I would like to call the committee meeting to order.
We would like to continue with the review of Bill 8, starting with the Department of Justice, followed by the Department of Education and, if time permits, followed by the Department of Culture, Language, Elders and Youth.
Are we in agreement that we first deal with the capital estimates for the Department of Justice?
Chairman: Yesterday, the Minister of Justice and the Chair of the Standing Committee on Social Wellness provided their opening comments. Minister Peterson, do you have witnesses that you would like to bring to the Chambers?
Hon. Keith Peterson: Yes, Mr. Chairman, I do have witnesses.
Chairman: Sergeant-at-Arms, please let the minister’s staff into the Chambers.
To my right is Mr. Doug Garson, Acting Deputy Minister of the Department of Justice, and to my left is Ted Dingle, Manager of Corporate Services for the Department of Justice.
I guess there are no general comments.
We will move on to the page-by-page [review] and we will start at C-3. It’s Justice.
Directorate. Branch Summary. Total Capital Expenditures. $400,000.
Are there any questions or comments? Agreed?
Chairman: We will move on to C-5. Justice.
Corrections. Branch Summary. Total Capital Expenditures, as amended or sorry, not as amended.
With regard to C-5, the total includes both C-6 and C-7, which I believe we are dealing with currently.
Can you clarify that for our benefit, please.
Chairman: That’s correct, both pages.
Mr. Okalik, go ahead.
This item which we flagged earlier in the report, specifically with respect to a new correctional facility which is being planned at this stage, was a concern we shared.
The committee members spoke to this concern with respect to the $300,000 and I will be making a motion to slash this amount from the total.
In order to prepare for the motion, we will need to take a short break.
I would like to prepare the documentation first.
I think we will take a five-minute break to get ready for this motion.
>>Committee recessed at 15:29 and resumed at 15:32
Chairman: Mr. Okalik, go ahead.
Committee Motion 001 – 3(2): Deletion of $300,000 from the 2010-2011 Capital Estimates of the Department of Justice (Okalik)
I move that the $300,000 in proposed funding for the “Correctional Facility Replacement” project be deleted from the 2010-11 Capital Estimates of the Department of Justice.
When the minister appeared before the standing committee during the review of the capital estimates, the members raised questions and relayed their concerns about the planned correctional facility project or additional facility.
Since Nunavut was created, we will have constructed three correctional facilities.
Every time there is an election, they build new correctional facilities and we would like to see something else.
The correctional facility in Rankin Inlet is still incomplete and we’re now planning for a replacement of the correctional facility. We were quite concerned because we wanted to see other projects from our government.
The Rankin Inlet Correctional Facility has room for an addition.
In the future, if the facility becomes too small, there is a plan for an addition to be built for that building. Therefore, we cannot just accept that $300,000 proposed funding for the correctional facility replacement.
We hear the correctional facility we have is overcrowded all the time.
On behalf of homeowners, Mr. Chairman, there are other homes that are dilapidated and requiring repairs even though the homeowner is not incarcerated.
With all of these other pressing issues, I can’t just accept the replacement correctional facility recommendation when my constituents’ require other benefits to alleviate their cost of living.
Therefore, I move a motion to delete this proposed funding and I further urge all of my colleagues to support this motion.
Are there any more members wishing to speak to the motion?
Hon. Peterson.
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for giving me this opportunity to speak.
Mr. Chairman, when I became the Minister of Justice, I asked for a briefing from my staff and they started to tell me about the facilities in there. In the Baffin Correctional Centre, there was a serious discussion and I simply told them, after they told me some of the horror stories about that facility, I said, “Don’t tell me more. Show me.”
So, Mr. Chairman, I and my Executive Assistant, Nick Pashkoski, were given a tour of the facility. We saw first hand what that facility is like. It’s overcrowded.
It’s dilapidated. There are parts of the building hanging from the ceiling. There’s not enough space for the overcrowding.
There’s not enough space for the proper counselling programs and rehab programs that you would expect from a facility like that. It has the potential to lead to violence because you have so many offenders in there; some days, there are upwards of 95. You have staff in there and they’re crowded in there with them.
So I asked for some detailed information on the facility and learned that it’s over 20 years old. It wasn’t really designed for the capacity that it has there now.
It was originally designed for 42 and then it was expanded to 66, if my information and memory is correct. Like I said, there are sometimes 95 or 96 depending on the day of the week. I know that every day, their staff are monitoring the logistics of moving offenders between jurisdictions and between the Northwest Territories.
We have an MOU with the North Slave Correctional Centre and Ontario, where they have a number of facilities. In the Northwest Territories, at any given day, there could be 40 offenders from Nunavut and the Northwest Territories is charging us $266 a day. That’s almost $97,000 a year.
We’re basically paying for their facility with our offenders and in Ontario, I think there could be as many as 30 offenders down there.
Now, I arranged, through my officials, to have a tour of three facilities in Ontario to see first hand. I heard concerns from regular members. They were concerned that our offenders are being sent south, they weren’t getting counselling and they weren’t getting rehabilitative courses.
Sending Inuit and other Nunavummiut to the south was not something that they were particularly happy with, that they should be looked after closer to home.
So I visited the Fenbrook facility in Ontario, north of Toronto, and I visited Central East, which is also north of Toronto, and I visited Millhaven.
Now, I went to Fenbrook and I talked to several of the inmates from Nunavut there. In fact, there are six or seven from my own constituency and they were very happy to see me. They told me that if we had a facility like Fenbrook or the programs that they have at Fenbrook in Nunavut, they would love to be closer to home.
Several of them in particular mentioned the Baffin Correctional Centre.
I talked to the Inuit liaison officers, three nice ladies down there, who work with our offenders from the north, and they put on three excellent programs.
The Tupiq is one program in particular that has a very high success rate of counselling for folks from the north. They have spousal assault and family violence programs and they’re very well attended. They have classrooms down there.
They have a chapel. They have fitness centres. They have a library with computers and classrooms.
So that’s kind of a nice facility, but they said that they would like to be brought home. The problem with being brought home to Nunavut is that we don’t have the facilities. Now, I recognize what Mr. Okalik said.
There’s a facility being built in Rankin Inlet that would be able to accommodate up to 48 prisoners, but the fact of the matter is that wouldn’t accommodate all of the inmates who we require beds for in Nunavut.
It being what it is, I asked our officials to start looking at the situation with the Baffin Correctional Centre. It’s a facility that’s old, dilapidated, and things have constantly broken down and fallen apart over there. It’s chipping away at our funding.
Locks sometimes won’t work, the fire suppression systems fail, and so on and so forth. So I asked them to include $300,000 in the capital plan for the Department of Justice to initiate a study, Mr. Chairman, to look at modernizing, expanding, upgrading, and possibly replacing the Baffin Correctional Centre.
We did not say that we’re going to build a new facility.
What I need is information as the Minister of Justice and the government needs it as well on what would be our cost to modernize, expand, upgrade, or replace as options.
As the Minister of Justice and as a concerned Nunavummiuq, I would not be doing my job, Mr. Chairman, if I didn’t look at providing a facility that’s modern, accommodates the important needs of our inmates and the safety of our staff and officials out there, as well as the safety of the offenders who are in the facility.
So I explained to the standing committee that this is what it was. We had our meeting last month and we had a good debate. I appreciate the member’s comments, concerns, and all of the recommendations.
I know that on page C-6, it says, “Correctional Facility Replacement.”
That’s probably a poor choice of words. If they had used the words when it was drafted, “Correctional Facility Study,” that might have been a better choice of words.
But in the interest of openness and transparency in this government, we and I wanted to make sure that the standing committee understands what the purpose of the $300,000 was for.
We’re being completely open and candid with everybody here and Nunavummiut.
Everybody reads the media reports and you hear about the issues at the Baffin Correctional Centre. I have been hearing them for many years.
When I was in the Kitikmeot, some of my constituents would be sent over here and they had difficulties with the facility. I heard all of the horror stories to the point where my constituents didn’t want to come to the Baffin Correctional Centre; they would prefer to be sent to the North Slave Correctional Centre.
When I was a Mayor of Cambridge Bay and again as an MLA, I raised that issue a number of times.
When inmates are saying that they don’t want to be sent to the Baffin Correctional Centre because it’s falling apart and it’s dangerous, then you know you have a problem. They’re telling me that and my officials are as well. It’s a facility that has to be replaced and it has to be looked at.
Again, Mr. Chairman, I did not say that we’re going to proceed with constructing a new facility.
If I put my other hat on as the Minister of Finance, I recognize that the funding for a $100 million to $150 million capital project of this nature would be very difficult to proceed with.
In any event, any of this stuff, any of these choices - modernizing, expanding, upgrading, or replacing - would have to be put on the capital plan and would have to come into this House for discussion and debate.
So there was no intention to proceed with the construction of an expensive facility.
It’s simply for information purposes. We are quite willing to share that information with members of the standing committee.
Again, this government is committed to openness and transparency.
I urge all Members of this House to approve and support the $300,000.
I think it is incumbent upon us as leaders in Nunavut that we look first to the safety of our offenders and our staff. Many of them are friends, relatives, and neighbours in our communities. They deserve a facility that will help them become better citizens so that when they return to their communities and reintegrate, they would be given a hand up in that regard.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this opportunity to make a few comments on the motion.
Mr. Arvaluk, to the motion.
I realize that any kind of argument can be made. There is overcrowding everywhere, including our own non-incarcerated, regular citizens of Nunavut who are in overcrowded houses, because we can’t afford to build any more houses. We don’t see them, though, because they don’t make noise.
They’re not being looked after. They’re just boarding with relatives and friends and sometimes room renting, but they’re not as visible as an overcrowded jail. There are some other examples like that.
The schools are overcrowded.