EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Wherever they want to go, they go. Wherever a ship wants to go and tangle, they do and we will never know what they do.
Those of us who are Inuit, in fact, all we are told is that, don’t touch, don’t touch and yet there is nobody monitoring them, so how will we be addressing these things.
They have complete freedom to do whatever they want, wherever they want to go, wherever there are animals, and wherever there are archaeology sites, how are you planning to address these?
I remember the question. This is definitely a serious concern.
Archaeology sites and places where Inuit used to reside long ago, the Dorset cultures and other cultures, prehistoric cultures and so on.
Yes, in terms of what we would do, we need to be addressing that taking a serious look at it.
However, in terms of the specifics Mr. Long can address that a bit more if you do not mind, Mr. Chairman.
We certainly share Mr. Enook’s concern.
How we will approach that in the legislation development process will be consultation. We will be discussing these issues with communities, getting their feeling and input on it. We’ll try and incorporate as much of that as possible and as we can do legally to protect our land, our animals and that sort of thing.
That is the strategy.
Until the consultations take place and we have a clear idea of what people’s concerns are, we won’t have a method of fixing it. Once we know, we’ll certainly do our best.
I wonder when the community consultations will happen with respect to this and how long will you be consulting with the communities?
How long will it be until you report to the House on that?
Like my deputy minister said, we will be consulting with the communities first and then report on it. I will get Mr. Long to respond to the other questions.
Mr. Long: I can’t put an exact timetable on it but certainly the process will begin this fall.
By the time it is passed as an act, I would guess it will be a year and a half.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the deputy minister for the response. Also with respect to tourism, your department proposed 2014-15 main estimates include $1.8 million in funding for its tourism development program.
Last winter this was a concern that tourism… we didn’t know whether tourism was utilizing the money properly.
Some of us were worried that we wanted the money to be used properly and we questioned some of that usage.
Can the minister tell us with respect to all the concerns and worries that happen out there, what have you done to ensure that this does not happen again?
Since the inception of Nunavut, the government will have to make sure that we are… in Kugluktuk we talked about all of the things that we should be doing to see whether the money is being used or expended properly because there are many different things that we have to do to make sure that the money we are spending is spent properly and for it to be looked at every so often to make sure it is being spent properly.
I’m not exactly sure what we have done so far to this. We are dealing with this right at the present time.
I would like to get Mr. Long to make an update as to what new strategy has happened since then.
If he could respond to that question, through you Mr. Chairman.
What are we doing now?
We have quarterly meetings with Nunavut Tourism at which their work plan for the year is reviewed. We look at the things that they had set out to do. Have they accomplished them and have they accomplished them well?
We also look at their financials at that time. We consider whether the money is being well spent.
The specific issue that blew up in the newspaper regarding one attempt at a TV initiative was with the Lifetime Network in Florida.
A Balancing Act was the name of the program.
It is a national program in the states. We spent $70,000 to be on that program. It was one of three major initiatives over a period of a couple of years that Nunavut Tourism undertook.
It did have some impact that could be measured by the number of hits on the website. It was not exceptional.
Nunavut Tourism was instrumental in bringing Canada AM from CTV up here. That had an amazing impact. They went from 200 hits a week to 2000.
They got many minutes of broadcast time, which is estimated to have had a value of over $1 million. So we have two airs where our money was invested. The $70,000 did not work exceptionally well.
The other one was extremely well.
They were instrumental in bringing up the Amazing Race Canada. We got wonderful exposure from that. It was an extremely good investment on our part because it didn’t cost us anything.
These were three different attempts at getting TV shows and getting exposure. Two of them were extremely good, the other one was sort of average or not great. That is not a bad batting average as far as I’m concerned.
There were certain inaccuracies in the newspaper article. Regardless, that was how it worked.
The other thing I would say is that I just received word that this year Nunavut Tourism has just completed their audit. Their books were in good enough order that it took three days instead of two weeks. There was one journal entry required.
There was no need for a management letter because the auditors could find nothing to complain about. Thank you very much, Chairman.
I beg to differ but I’m not an accountant, unfortunately.
(interpretation) I’d like to ask the minister, maybe this is not one of the minister’s portfolio if you can stop me, Mr. Chairman, if I’m in the wrong with respect to Economic Development and Transportation still with respect to Nunavut Tourism.
There used to be, at one time, hon. minister, in the Kivalliq region. There probably is one at the Kivalliq region. People who take training with respect to guides being trained to do tourism and they have some training here in Pangnirtung, would go to teach tourism guides.
I have not seen this for quite some time, maybe because it did not continue.
Can the minister respond to me? If not, I would like to be able to get some understanding…maybe it is under the Nunavut Arctic College.
Have you considered taking the guide training to the people of Nunavut?
I would like to respond to it but I will get Mr. Long to respond to it for clarity.
There has been some guide training and some other training going on over the past four or five years.
Most importantly though, Arctic College has been working over the past two years to develop a whole set of new tourism training courses.
Those are now ready to be rolled out. Arctic College is working in cooperation with Nunavut Tourism and others, so I think you’ll see a significant difference, improvement in…and a lot of those old courses are updated, as well.
I think you’ll see a real difference in the level of training that happens over the next few years.
Now leaving tourism, I will talk about mining.
I have asked some questions and it is very important to me that we have to work together or the development partnership agreement policy, especially to do with communities that are close to the mining companies. This development partnership agreement policy is very important.
Can you enlighten me, Mr. Minister, with respect to the agreements to the Mary River, Meliadine…what kind of development partnership agreement do you have in place for those mining companies?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I thank the member for his question. He asked that question before, that I can remember.
Mr. Chairman, the DPA that the member is talking about, we said, and the member knows, that up to today, we have a DPA with the mining companies, Agnico-Eagle, the one that is near Baker Lake, we have a DPA with Agnico-Eagle.
It is an agreement between us and Agnico-Eagle, at the present time but we will be talking with the Mary River, Baffinland, shortly and others.
Exactly where we are at, at the present time, with development partnership agreements…we have an agreement with Agnico-Eagle at the present time and I know that there will be others that we will have agreements with.
Chairman: Mr. Enook.  Mr. Enook (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I would like to ask the minister about the people who are working at Mary River. How important is the development partnership agreement to your department, and what would you do in order to start a development partnership agreement with other mining companies?
In regard to a development partnership agreement, it would be between... . There are quite a few partnership agreements.
They would have to consult with the communities and the surrounding communities around the mining camp. The Nunavut government would have to consult. The mining companies themselves would have to consult and they would require a DPA.
There’s a process there where it states how the DPA could be initiated.
There’s a process that we need to follow if they need a DPA. There are various processes to follow.
Mr. Long is more knowledgeable about how the process works and how it is initiated, so I would like him to respond.
We will consider a DPA after a mining company has received their development permit from the federal government and after they have settled their IIBA with the appropriate land claim group. The DPA is voluntary. We ask them if they want one.
The mining company decides whether they want to enter into that discussion with us and have one or not.
You mentioned three mines. The first one, Mary River, of course, has now got their permit and they have their settled IIBA. I talked to the vice-president of Baffinland a few weeks ago, about three weeks ago, and said, “If you guys are interested in discussing a DPA, we’re ready to talk to you.”
They have not come forward and said, “We’re ready to talk,” so they have not asked for a meeting.
In the case of Meliadine, I don’t believe they have their IIBA settled and I don’t believe they have their permit, so that’s a little bit premature for them, although Agnico-Eagle has one with Meadowbank and they probably will be interested.
Did you mention Kiggavik as the other one?
That’s still in the advanced exploration stage. They’re still struggling with NIRB.
Nothing has settled there for them yet. They’re a year or two off from even considering it.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I guess, Mr. Chairman, where I get confused is one day, I am led to believe that there will be a development partnership agreement, that it’s in the best interest of the mines to have the agreement, yet it’s voluntary.
(interpretation) Let me ask this question. Can there be a mining company or a development company in Nunavut without ever having a development partnership agreement?
I will have my deputy minister respond.
Yes, there could be a mine that refuses to negotiate one and so, it is not mandatory and they could operate without it.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) That’s shocking. (interpretation) For those of us from Pond Inlet, the mayor in particular, we were made to believe that they require a DPA.
I apologize to all the Pond Inlet residents because our understanding was that it was mandatory to have a DPA.
Now I am confused. I will leave it at that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Next person on my list, Mr. Hickes.
I think I only have one question here. We’ll see how it goes. In the main estimates, it describes economic development that the department has the overall responsibility for leading the strategic direction and promotion of economic development in Nunavut.
I understand that there are a number of different programs and policies in place to stimulate growth in Nunavut. I recently had a really simple description of what economic development means and the description that was given to me was ‘The more hands that touch a dollar that enters Nunavut is what really stimulates growth.’
As an example, maybe the minister will be able to understand in simple terms. If a southern contractor built a building up here, brings all their own workers and very little of the dollar that is spent on that construction is spent in Nunavut. It all leaves the territory.
Whereas, if a local contractor gets the contract to build something and has local suppliers getting the materials from, local employment, those people in turn shop at local stores, buy boats and Hondas and vehicles and groceries and gas and the list goes on and on, more and more people touch that dollar.
How is your department working within your programming to make sure that every dollar that enters Nunavut touches as many fingers as possible?
I know that I cannot respond to that but I do understand. Yes, our department is economic development for Nunavut and we are to develop smaller companies and through our programs we are to provide programs for smaller businesses and to support the smaller companies or even larger businesses.
Since we are the economic development in our department, if I understood your question clearly, if we are going to develop within Nunavut communities and we can provide support to purchasing in Nunavut and by providing support and if we are going to hire within Nunavut, either for goods and services to be purchased in Nunavut.
For example, such as providing loans through NBCC, there are various avenues that we can use that are coming from our department and that could benefit private companies, if I understood your question correctly so that is how I am responding.
Mr. Hickes: I’ll stick to my promise.
I just have the one question, but I just will finish off with a very brief comment.
I really want you to encourage your department and your staff to continuously work to the effect of maximizing the economic benefit of every dollar that enters this territory.
Next on the list, Mr. Mikkungwak.
Mr. Mikkungwak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have only two regarding economic development.
My first question will be to the minister.
How does this department division assist a community with rich exploration activity?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, although I would like to respond to the question, I don’t want to guess, so I will not provide a response.
I indicated I had only two.
I guess my first comment will be his department has all that information regarding all the economic activity with industry, whether it be exploration or whatnot.
I guess that would be my first comment regarding the first question there.
As I indicated, I said only two questions.
My second question will be under the economic development portfolio again. In tourism and cultural industries, what more emphasis will his department do with the Heritage Rivers in place?
There is more than one department responsible in regard to Heritage Rivers.
If Mr. Long has a response, I ask that he responds to that question because I probably wouldn’t respond to it properly.
I would say that the Heritage River designation on rivers makes it a very attractive tourism venue.
What we should be doing is training, financing, and supporting more tourism businesses that will work on those rivers, fishing, canoeing, and things like that.
The new training programs that are just being rolled out, I think, is a really good starting point to aggressively develop some adventure tourism packages around those rivers.
We have the various programs to make that happen.
The next name on the list, Mr. Savikataaq.
On page 173 of your business plan, fifth bullet from the bottom, I’ll read it.
“Undertake an Economic Impact Study on Tourism to determine the impact of tourism activities on the Nunavut economy and the impact of external economic factors on tourism in Nunavut.”
I want to ask the minister if all this year the department has been pumping millions into economic activities, tourism stuff, not knowing the results.
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That’s an excellent question.
I’ll have deputy minister, Mr. Long, respond to you. If you don’t mind, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Long: As we review programs and consider how successful they have been, this is a process to look at tourism from that perspective.
There is statistical information available in some areas, and some there is not.
We have to continue researching through exit surveys and things like that to determine if we are doing well in tourism and if we are getting a good bang for our buck.
Staying on tourism, cruise ship tours are mentioned a few times and how to get more economic benefit out of them.
Is the minister looking at studies to see how much money the communities pump in before the cruise ships come and how much money these cruise ships actually leave behind?
I believe in many cases it’s a net loss.
Has that been looked at?
I remember parts of that being asked about at another date.
It can be looked at another date. It can be looked at in two ways.
We can look to see how much revenue it is making the communities.
I believe Mr. Long looked at the figures at some point and I would like him to respond to that, Mr. Chairman. If you don’t mind.
First of all I’d like to say that the economic development officers, we encourage them to look at what the investment was and if there was any profit from it.
Where we find that we’re not making any money at cruise ship tourism then how can we make it better in that community?
How can we develop better products? How can we fix our pricing so that some money will be made?
It’s a contentious issue.
I know there are people in this room and in some of our communities that are not fond of cruise ships.
Others seem to think it’s pretty good.
It appears to be a mixed blessing.
If it is going to happen I would certainly like to see that more money is left behind and not at a net loss.
We will be working aggressively with the economic development officers and with Nunavut Tourism to try and make that better.
Mr. Savikataaq: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank you for the response.
Chairman: Sorry. We will take a 10-minute break.
>>Committee recessed at 18:54 and resumed at 19:05
Chairman: Thank you. We have quorum.
I would like to commence with the meeting. Mr. Savikataaq, you’ve got the floor.
Staying on tourism, I just have a question on Nunavut Tourism employment. Are they bound by the same criteria for having to hire beneficiaries first, if at all possible, or can they hire anyone from anywhere they want?
I’ll have my (interpretation ends) associate deputy minister (interpretation) respond to that question, Mr. Suvega, if it’s okay with you. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
In terms of organization, Nunavut Tourism is bound by the rules set by the Nunavut Tourism board.
We certainly encourage all the agencies that we fund for priority hiring policies and a lot of them do create by-laws and policies for just such activities.
The official just said that it’s set by the board. That didn’t answer my question whether they’re bound by having to have priority hire beneficiaries.
Can I get that question answered whether they have to hire beneficiaries first?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you very much. I would like Mr. Suvega to answer that question as well, (interpretation ends) associate deputy minister. (interpretation) Thank you.
Currently, legally, we have no mechanisms to force organizations that we fund for priority hiring. We certainly encourage them to do so on the strong themes of things like Article 23 within the land claims in terms of organizations that the Government of Nunavut funds. Legally, we start to get into some unique territory when we’re asking or telling organizations on priority hiring policies.
Am I hearing correctly that they cannot force them to have priority hired beneficiaries? They can’t even put that into contribution agreements?
I would like Mr. Suvega to respond.
We would have to consult with our colleagues within the Department of Justice to see if we can insert language into contribution agreements of that nature as well as with our central agency in the Department of Finance before introducing a change like that.
Currently, how many permanent employees does Nunavut Tourism have and how many of those are beneficiaries?
I would like Mr. Suvega to respond to that because they have the numbers.
We don’t have those numbers currently but we can provide them shortly.
I thank you for that. If we could have those numbers before the end of sitting if at all possible.
Going on to a different matter, on page 176 one of the priorities, second bullet from the bottom is, “Publish results of the carving stone deposit evaluation project.”
Is there any funding available to get this soapstone?
It’s all dandy to know where it is but it’s another story to mine and retrieve it.
Is there funding for that?
Mr. Suvega would like to respond to that.
Mr. Suvega: Currently there is no specific funding dedicated to the extraction of carving stones.
However, some of our programs in the department can be geared towards specific economic activities.
We also work closely in partnership with many other organizations external to the Government of Nunavut including Inuit organizations to see how we can find creative solutions in accessing these sites.
Can you state what programs are available to get funds to mine the soapstone?
That program can be run by other departments on the outside of the government. But Mr. Suvega can explain that fully.
Currently, just as an example, applicants could access one of the programs like strategic investments programs. We also work with many of our partners in the federal system such as CANNOR to see if we can find, again, creative solutions to funding proponents and their activities.
For more clarity, can these funds by obtained by an individual or does it have to be a society or a hamlet?
I would like that to be explained by Mr. Suvega.
Our programs. such as the Strategic Investments Program are geared towards individual businesses or societies such as not-for-profit organizations or municipalities.
I think this will be the last question.
On page 177 of your business plan, the third bullet from the bottom.
I think it was touched on earlier but it says, “Promote a regulatory regime that will attract responsible resource developers, including by developing guidelines to clarify expectations during social economic impact assessments, developing positions on transportation routes, and develop positions on oil and gas development.”
Can you explain what they mean by that? What has to be changed? What do they assume should be changed?
Chairman: Minister Kuksuk.  Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Suvega would like to answer the question, so I would like him to proceed.
We all work in partnership through instruments such as the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement.
Some of these regulatory changes occur outside of Nunavut. It could be a federal change or it could be a change on how the institutions of public governance are set up and govern themselves.
We work in partnership with many of our partners, such as the federal government and/or Inuit organizations, to see where we can find efficiencies.
One of these examples would be on how proponents or mining companies consult within a community on proposed projects where, 20 years ago, it was unheard of for a proponent to actually hit the territory and come to our communities, sitting and explain what their proposed projects are.
You fast-forward 20 years and the proponents are much more prepared now in terms of not just communicating what their proposed projects are, but also communicating in our language.
The next name on the list, Ms. Angnakak.
I think I want to tough around tourism as well.
I know that Nunavut Tourism has been working on, I guess, in partnership with the department, cruise ship and yacht strategies. I think there are some concerns around that.
I’m wondering: how is Nunavut Tourism working with the communities in developing tourism opportunities right at the community level?
What kind of foundational work, I guess, have they done at the community level?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We thank the member for that question.
A related question was asked, but to elaborate more on the specific issue, I would like Mr. Suvega to respond.
A lot of that is in partnerships, working with communities in raising awareness, marketing tourism-ready products, how to conduct business with cruise ship passengers.