EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
I’ll have my deputy minister respond if it’s okay with you.
Mr. Audla (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) Again, each community varies in the sense of why it is that they would get into a deficit situation.
It could be damages to the unit, freezing of pipes, unexpected instances where we would have to do emergency repairs, or tenant damages.
Each community would be different for the reasons as to why they would end up in a deficit situation.
I hope that sort of answers the question.
I guess I don’t understand how the LHO operates then. You’re talking about their own office like if something freezes up.
What were you referring to? Were you referring to local public housing units in the community or the LHO’s own operations?
The official to my left, Curtis, is able to respond to the question better and he would like to respond to the question, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Allaby.
Mr. Allaby: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
To answer that question, it’s really the maintenance of the public housing units itself that is the bulk of the expense of each local housing organization. It’s not so much the administration of their own offices that would lead to any deficit.
It’s actually events that happen in each of the housing units they are responsible for maintaining.
Further to the initial response I would just like to say that another big factor that contributes to LHO deficits is lower collection rates on rental assessments.
Perhaps the department can tell us: what are the key elements of an LHO deficit recovery plan?
I would like Mr. Allaby to continue responding to this line of questioning.
When formulating a deficit recovery plan, the Nunavut Housing Corporation partners with local housing organizations. Normally it’s through our community development officer of finance positions.
We send Nunavut Housing Corporation staff into the community to work with the local housing organization to understand the drivers of their expenditures and what may be causing their deficit.
We take a detailed look at each of the individual line items on LHO financial statements and try to identify exactly what is driving those expenditures and try to figure out if there are areas for efficiency, and then work with developing a plan that can be sustainable.
We don’t necessarily expect an LHO with a significant deficit to come out of deficit within one year or two years even, but we look at developing a long-term plan that allows the LHO to continue to maintain the units at a suitable level and still generate enough surpluses over the year to repay back the deficit.
Ms. Angnakak: That’s why I was waving. I want to ask him another question.
You made reference to a bit of a timeline, but I’m wondering: from the four that were identified as being in the deficit position, how many of these have been in a deficit position for longer than two years?
The ones that I mentioned earlier are the ones that have been in a deficit position for over two years. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
Next name on my list, Mr. Joanasie.
I’m going to start off with the Inuit Employment Plan on page NHC-19. In your business plan it outlines figures for September 30, 2016 and within your business plan it states the goal is to reach the target by March 31, 2018.
These are categorized in these reports. If we read the particulars here, it speaks to upper management positions down to the administrative level.
One thing I have noted here is the (interpretation ends) middle management (interpretation) positions where only 5 percent of the positions out of the 22 positions, which equals one position, are held by an Inuk.
With that being the reality, I wonder if the housing corporation is focusing on this area where middle management positions can be filled by Inuit.
What has the NHC undertaken to fill more positions with Inuit beneficiaries? What has the NHC done to increase the numbers since 5 percent equates to one position as the lowest amount?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I also thank the member for that excellent question.
I’m looking for information that is in front of me in regard to (interpretation ends) the Inuit Employment Plan. (interpretation) Although we have it, if the deputy minister can find it, he can respond to the question, Mr. Chairman, if you will allow.
Mr. Audla (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) Thank you for that question.
For the March 31 Inuit employment target positions, the housing corporation has filled 100 percent of their target positions.
Three additional NHC positions outside of the Inuit employment targets were also filled with Inuit and the housing corporation has reached an overall milestone of 38 percent as of September.
In the priorities, we are committed to supporting Inuit staff through performance management, on-the-job training, and by encouraging continuous learning.
Our Inuit Employment Plan Committee continues to support the corporation’s initiative to identify areas for employee succession, including surveying existing staff to determine interest in advancement and finding ways to adapt existing programs to suit the needs of the employees.
Also within the Blueprint for Action on Housing we have identified local workforce development as a key issue facing Nunavut.
The document sets out several actions that would not only develop the local workforce, but would work to eventually increase Inuit employment rates within the housing corporation.
As an example, in our Arviat district office, this is something that we don’t like to do, but if the local housing authority in Arviat, that has 100 percent Inuit employment and 33 staff, is willing to come over to our district office to work to gain more experience within the district aspect within the housing corporation, we do a casual type of employment and try to encourage those individuals to advance within the corporation as well.
It’s difficult for us in a sense of trying to increase the numbers within the corporation, but trying to maintain the local housing authority numbers as well.
This is something that we’re constantly working towards to try to improve and it’s something that we’re always striving for.
That’s the best answer I can give for now, Mr. Chairman.
Looking at the numbers here, the 5 percent is the lowest in the middle management positions. Since it’s only 5 percent and it’s the lowest figure, it seems like that would be your priority as you move forward.
(interpretation ends) I noted also the total department positions are going down. As a matter fact it says 122 positions in total and for next year, March 31, 2018, it’s going to be 116.
That’s taking into account four positions in the paraprofessional category as well as two in the professional category.
What positions is the NHC removing from their organizational chart?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, we would like the member to provide further clarity on his question and what page he is looking at.
Maybe if you can clarify the page you are referencing, Mr. Joanasie. Mr. Joanasie.
I’m on NHC page 19 Appendix II, Inuit Employment Targets.
It’s a chart that shows the department’s target for next year on Inuit employment and as a total at the NHC, they have 122. Actually I’m going to reference this, Towards a Representative Public Service as of December 31, 2016.
The most recent numbers I have for the NHC is 123 positions total, but in the business plan for March 31, 2018 under NHC-19, the page I referenced says there’s going to be a total of 116 positions.
That’s six positions that will be taken out from the department.
I note that it’s under the professional position category and the paraprofessional position category.
These are under the construction division and they are construction manager positions that will be taken out.
Why are those positions being taken out? I know that there will be units constructed in Nunavut’s communities.
Why are they going to reduce the numbers by that much?
I would like my deputy minister to provide a detailed response if it’s okay with you.
The six positions in question were originally funded by the CMHC and those funds are no longer going to be contributed to the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
They happen to be in the construction division; the design, architectural and jobs of that technical nature. The reasoning is that the funding from the CMHC has ended for those positions.
Are those positions filled or are they vacant?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): I don’t have that information in front of me right now, so Mr. Audla will be able to respond to the question.
Mr. Audla (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) We’re hoping to renew the positions that are currently filled. It’s going to be a matter of how we allocate certain parts of our budget to do that.
We are hoping that we can renew them at this point. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Are these six positions filled or not filled?
Hon. George Kuksuk: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation) I would like my deputy minister to continue responding to his question. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
Of the six, five are filled and as I stated earlier, we’re hoping to renew those positions as well as reprofile the sixth position, being that we had some difficulty to try to fill the sixth position because of its technical nature. Electrical, I believe, was the position that was in question.
I am also aware that there are four district offices in Nunavut. I wonder which office positions are vacant in the communities.
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, if I understood the gist of the member’s question, he asked which of the positions will be removed. Is that the question? Okay.
All of these positions are located in Iqaluit that we are discussing here.
Moving to another area, (interpretation ends) it was mentioned about going back to your discussion on rent arrears or collection and it was talked mainly about public housing.
How about with staff housing?
How is this set up? We know the government has an X amount of staff and an X amount of housing units that you have.
Are all rents that GN staff sit in collected automatically off their pay or is it like the GN, you cut a cheque to your employee and then that employee has to pay housing?
You used the example of income support recipients. They have to pay a portion of their income to public housing or to their local LHO.
How does that work for staff housing?
Our staff housing tenants’ rents are automatically deducted from their paycheques.
The rent is taken off their pay. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
Another issue that was referred to earlier relates to subsidies that government employees receive for staff housing.
I wonder what amount this subsidy is for public servants renting staff housing units.
Will your department conduct a further review in this area?
With respect to the member’s question about the amount, we don’t have that level of detail at this time.
Nonetheless, it is one of the areas managed by the (interpretation ends) blueprint for action (interpretation) and government staff housing units rented by our public servants, including other matters.
This subsidy will be dealt with under the (interpretation ends) blueprint for action. (interpretation) Once the plan is ready for approval, we will be able to review it.
We will look forward to its implementation.
(interpretation ends) Mr. Chairman, going back to the NHC’s business plan, I’m going on page 8 and this is in relation to blueprint for action items.
The full page has a list of things that the NHC will do, but one of them on page NHC-8, the fourth bullet talks about conducting a “jurisdictional scan of various subsidized housing models in other provinces and territories to review best practices.”
What does the NHC plan on or what do you think you will get out of this jurisdictional scan?
My deputy minister will respond as to what we will be doing with the jurisdictional scan, Mr. Chairman, if it’s okay with you.
As part of Action 22, analyzing the current staff housing subsidy to determine subsidy levels, as part of that exercise we hope to look at other jurisdictions that would show to what level they subsidize staff housing, if any.
We will look at the NWT system, the system in the Yukon, and any other jurisdictions that offer that as well in other parts of Canada, and to see what best practices are out there and if those best practices can be applied to Nunavut in some way.
Within the context of the overall review of this type of subsidy for staff housing, all we want to do is collect anything within Canada that can assist us in sort of giving us that broader picture of what we can do better.
Hopefully it will give us some more comprehensive analysis of what available options there may be to improve that.
As part of that, we’re looking at it in conjunction with the Department of Finance. We hope to do that within the year through 2017-18 and have something concrete that is well thought out and to do it in such a way that is very reflective of the realities here in Nunavut.
I thank Mr. President for his response there.
I look forward to more information as it becomes available on that item.
Another thing that I noted on the same page, NHC-8, a little further down, almost in the middle, it talks about the NHC with Community and Government Services “will engage with RIAs on potential public-private partnership (P3) opportunities for housing construction, or block land development on municipal Inuit owned lands.”
Can the minister clarify if they are planning on doing this in all Nunavut communities or are there specific communities they have in mind?
I believe this question was already asked, but if the minister wants to respond.
My deputy minister and I will respond to the question.
With respect to part of his question, there are Inuit-owned lands in some communities.
It is a reason in some communities that no land is available for housing construction. As for the landowners, for instance, we mentioned the regional Inuit associations. We have been working with them on land that we don’t own or using our own land.
That is in the plan.
I will refer part of his question to Mr. Audla, if it’s okay with you.
That specific action was brought out through our collaboration in the initial engagement process in developing the blueprint for action with the regional Inuit associations where they would happen to own title to lands within a municipality.
We know that not all communities have Inuit-owned lands within municipalities.
I can use Pangnirtung as an example, where they have, I believe, four lots of land that Inuit have title to.
It’s a way of collaborating with them as to whether or not they have plans for those specific lots that they happen to have title to, to see whether or not they would be interested in developing those plots of land for the purposes of housing, be it for public and/or Inuit-owned housing or Inuit-specific housing.
Here is Iqaluit there is one plot in Apex. There is the large plot along the federal road, beachfront property, and there is one close to the Coast Guard complex.
In those instances we would like to sit down with them and they were agreeable in having that type of discussion as to how they would want to approach those specific land plots.
As for the other regions, in the Kivalliq, I believe there are not examples of Inuit-owned lands within municipalities.
I know there is a handful here in the Baffin.
As it stands, the regions have identified that they are willing to sit down with us to have that discussion and it’s built into the blueprint for action.
Although the question was raised earlier, I appreciate you allowing me to ask the question as I didn’t notice the question had already been asked. His response was quite clear and I am thankful for that too.
I’ll move on to another subject listed in the annual report on page 29.
It has previously been mentioned that for public housing owned by the housing corporation, the operations and maintenance for each unit costs approximately $26,500 per year.
On the same page it categorizes the figures properly, at least from what I see.
As an example, (interpretation ends) the average cost per unit in water and sewer is always the highest. It says $8,400, so almost one-third of the $26,500 goes towards water and sewer.
If we average it out, $8,400 in a year is about $700 each month, but every house needs water. We know that.
What I’m trying to get at is: in conjunction with Community and Government Services, have you tried to look at what efficiencies you can try to get in lowering this cost to have water in all our public housing units?
This does require brainstorming to lower that, but we aren’t the ones responsible for these costs. We work in collaboration with the Department of Community and Government Services, as well as on the side, working with organizations such as the (interpretation ends) Nunavut Association of Municipalities, or NAM, (interpretation) and other groups on the construction of the units.
The expenses related to maintenance, like the example of the $26,500 per unit that was mentioned, water (interpretation ends) or sewage (interpretation) rates are not set by us.
We have to work in conjunction with other groups. We can’t arbitrarily set it as the entities I mentioned earlier are involved in setting those rates, as per the member’s question.
We are continually working with departments like CGS as well as NAM specifically.
Next name on my list, Mr. Akoak.
Earlier my colleague, Ms. Angnakak, was touching up on staff housing and one of your responses was that it was a staff survey or staff unit. You’re encouraging the staff to purchase their own homes.
Are you encouraging your staff, if they’re living in a public housing unit, to buy that unit or encouraging your staff to buy a government unit that they are living in?
In the housing corporation one of our programs can be used for that.
If government staff live in public housing, we have the Tenant to Owner Program (interpretation) where the tenant can eventually buy the unit. There is a subsidy that goes along with that. That’s what we talked about, to not be just a renter anymore but to actually work to buy that unit.
For the Tenant to Owner, in the smaller communities with local housing associations, would they allow that to happen?
We don’t have much housing in the communities and they all want it.
If the government staff wants to buy it under the Tenant to Owner, would that happen?
If a tenant is interested in buying the unit that they are leasing, then we have a program that can help with that.
It will be just like normal practice in the communities.
For example, in Gjoa Haven, if anyone who works for the government rents from the local housing association and that person is interested in purchasing that unit from the housing association, then that staff person should talk with the housing association to make sure there are no problems for the prospective buyer and the housing association.
They can work on the transition by getting information from the housing association.
The Tenant to Owner Program is quite open to anybody who wishes to buy their housing unit, no matter where you live.
I believe he was referring to staff housing.
Also with staff housing, if staff is living in a staff housing unit, or I believe the government leases apartments, and the staff lives on those apartments, would the staff be able to buy either one of the two units, either leased or government-owned staff housing?
In some respects that would not be the case.
To explain this properly, I would like my deputy minister to explain the proper process that will have to be followed.
If it’s okay, I would like Mr. Audla to respond to this.
Mr. Audla (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) As I understand it, there were two parts to the question where those in public housing units would have the option to purchase the house they’re currently residing in and the other part was those that are residing in private or GN-owned staff housing, whether they would have that option as well.
The minister did respond that the public housing units, we do offer the Tenant to Owner Program, which would be decided upon in consultation with the NHC district, be it in Cambridge Bay for the Kitikmeot or Arviat for the Kivalliq or Cape Dorset for the Baffin as it relates to public housing.
For GN-leased units and/or GN-owned for the purposes of staff, they are not available in that way.
We do try to encourage private ownership for those that are willing to try out ownership within their community.
The Nunavut Housing Corporation’s proposed 2017-2020 business plan indicates that it will “be making specific efforts to reach out to LHOs, including in the delivery of new public housing construction.”
In the 2017-18 fiscal year, what other specific initiatives are planned?
We have announced what we are going to be doing in terms of public housing and as to which communities the new construction will go to.
Mr. Chairman, in terms of housing, as the housing corporation, we work with local housing associations in terms of which lots housing will be built on and we work with those in most need of housing to see which communities will get housing units this fiscal year.
If I didn’t respond to the question properly, if the question had to do with being outside of housing and housing construction, I can’t think of anything right now other than granting housing and construction of houses.
I don’t know what other external factors he is asking about and (interpretation ends) specific initiatives. (interpretation) Maybe my colleague can better explain his question so that I can respond to it better.
Maybe, Mr. Akoak, if you can specify which document or what specific initiative you are referring to.
I will just leave that for the sitting of the House. I’ll go on to something else.
In your Blueprint for Action on Housing, Action 41 on page 38, “Strategic Challenge: The High Cost of Housing,” the first paragraph reads, “The cost of housing construction in Nunavut is very high.
On average, construction costs in Nunavut are nearly three times higher than in Southern Ontario.
Furthermore, the operation and maintenance costs for social housing are significant and increasing year over year.”
Reading that, you have in “Goal 3: Reduce the Cost of Housing.
Reducing the cost of housing in Nunavut as a whole can be achieved through more efficient utility use and cost reduction and efficiency initiatives, construction techniques…” Now, we all know everything that comes up north and especially anything that goes to the Kitikmeot is very expensive by the time it gets to the communities, as mentioned by the minister before you.
Even the fuel is the highest cost in Nunavut.
Can you explain to me how you’re going to reduce the cost of housing when you’re referring to construction techniques?
How are you going to reduce the cost?
This specific question raised can mean many things. As an example, when a unit is roughed in and enclosed, the costs don’t just include the construction costs.
We can itemize various expenses after the unit has been constructed, such as the operation costs, the fuel expenses, as well as which direction the unit is facing.
These are some of the issues we have taken into consideration.
Perhaps to look at the definition, if it had a different definition, it would have been much easier to comprehend.
Currently the definition applies to electricity, energy-efficient lighting, such as LED lighting.
If each unit was modernized, then it would result in savings across the board related to energy costs as well as which direction the unit is facing.
For example, the lot where the unit is, including the general direction of the unit, such as the southerly direction where the sun could shine in, if we had more windows facing the sun, it would possibly alleviate the energy costs due to more light from the sun where they don’t need artificial lighting.
These are the types of different issues we are discussing here related to energy efficiency and how we can meet that goal, as well as the electrical wattage. We can purchase more energy-efficient lights to lower our costs.