EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Chairman: Madame Brown, do you have witnesses that you would like to bring to the table?
Chairman: Does the committee agree to bring the witnesses...
Chairperson (interpretation): Sergeant-at-Arms if you can assist the witnesses
Thank you. (interpretation ends) For the record, introduce your witnesses.
With me today is Rosemary Brown; from Capital Planning, on my right, the Deputy Minister, Bernie Blais.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Madam Brown. (interpretation ends) Yesterday we were on page H-5 of the capital estimates for Health and Social Services.
Before we proceed, I would like to remind the members of the following: According to Rule 77(1), you have ten minutes to speak and according to Rule 77(2) subject to the discretion of the Chair, a member may speak more than once to the matter under discussion, but not until every member wishing to speak has spoken.
I suggest to members that wherever possible, you will ask your detailed questions during the page-by-page review of the departmental estimates.
Do members have general comments?
H-5.
H-6. (interpretation ends) Health and Social Services Details of Capital.
Can you please face the members once in a while?
I would like to welcome the minister and her officials.
I think that’s your sister that is beside you on your left because her last name is Brown.
Under your statement, Ms. Brown, in your speaking notes, I wanted to ask you a question in regards to boarding homes.
You said that in the Kivalliq Region there’s going to be a Request for Proposal for a boarding home, but it doesn’t state anything about Request for Proposal for a boarding home.
When will the Request for Proposal be brought about? Thank you.
I will be doing my best, as a minister of this department, to answer all of the questions.
I will answer all of the questions.
If I don’t know the answer, I will pass it on to my Deputy and Ms. Brown I think it would be better to be transparent that way.
In regards to Mr. Curley’s question, I will be giving it to the Deputy Minister for his response.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Brown.
Mr. Blais: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The issue of the boarding home for the Rankin Inlet Health Centre will be dealt with and starting in the new year, we will be having a meeting with the Community and Government Services to determine what approach we will use.
There are a number of things that have to be done as well as that these contracts, boarding home costs are paid by Health Canada in all of our boarding homes currently and we have to negotiate a fixed rate with Health Canada to determine what they are prepared to pay in each of the communities that we currently have boarding homes like Yellowknife and Edmonton.
So, our hope is to start in the early part of the new year to determine whether we build ourselves, I guess, to some extent, or we will request, send out an RFP to have someone build that boarding home for us and pay them a fixed fee, as we do in several of our boarding homes now, the fee that Health Canada would agree to fund the government.
So, the expectation is that in the early part of the new year, we will begin that process with Community and Government Services.
So, it will be the new year, early year coming in there.
So it has not been fully decided yet whether or not it would be, the space requirement form is probably not fully laid out but you’re standing by, before the construction season, that you would put out an RFP.
If that is the intent, I would think then, that the decision is probably yet to be made with respect to whether or not the private contracts out there will design, construct and ultimately lease the facility for a number of years.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Curly.
Yes, that is the idea to determine.
Currently, we have two different models.
We have several sites such as Winnipeg and Yellowknife that basically there is a lease on that building.
We have a contract to operate and clean the building.
The preferred model, the one that I think appears to be very effective is the Edmonton and Ottawa model where basically all we do is we pay a fixed fee for each patient or escort in that building.
So, those are basically the two types of possibilities that we will be looking at, Mr. Chairman.
We’re on page H-6. (interpretation end): Directorate.
Total, Qikiqtaaluk Region, $ 24,195,000. (interpretation): Do you agree.
Chairman (interpretation): H-7, Health and Social Services.
I had asked this question before during Question Period.
There doesn’t seem to be anything in here of a nursing station to built or Health Centre in Repulse Bay.
I talked about the land development for the Health Centre in Repulse Bay, and I don’t see anything in these capital estimates.
It has been deferred numerous times and there is nothing at all in these capital estimates for the Health Centre in Repulse Bay under the Kivalliq Region.
I wonder why it’s not in the estimates.
Did they completely take it out, or did they forget about it?
Chairman (interpretation): Minister Brown.
Hon. Levinia Brown (interpretation): Yes, Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Looking at the question that the member has for a health center in Repulse Bay.
It is slated to be done in 2008. $309,000 has been allocated, and a design is to be ready in 2007. It has been deferred because we had to build the three regional hospitals first in Cambridge Bay, Rankin Inlet, and Iqaluit.
So, for that reason they had to defer that Health Centre in Repulse Bay.
My question is in regards to vehicles.
Whenever there is an emergency, they usual have an ambulance that has the stretcher that brings patients to the hospital during emergencies.
I just wanted to find out whether those vehicles will be able to have stretchers in the vehicles.
In all of the communities they have received mobile equipment and they will have enough room for stretchers in the vehicle so, that’s, and I know that the vehicles will be able to house those stretchers in the vehicles.
I welcome the Minister and her officials to our hearing.
I was noticing that while reviewing Capital Estimates that there doesn’t seem to be very many new projects for group homes.
There are no group homes on your Capital Plan and we know that in the other communities in Nunavut we have a need for those types of facilities for our youth.
And I noticed in August there was an RFP, Request for Proposals, issue for group home for disabled children in Cambridge Bay.
I’m wondering if the Minister could update me on the reason for that RFP and then what do you intend to do with that in the future?
Within Nunavut, those are most frequently asked questions and I can answer that there is one in Rankin Inlet for both adult and children, and in Chesterfield Inlet, I don’t have the information in front of me.
Maybe my Deputy Minister can clarify this further.
Mr. Blais: I have to apologize, I cannot answer that question at this point and time.
I know that we are doing, we have sent out an RFP but I can’t recollect exactly all of the background related to that.
So, I wish I could answer that question.
I just can’t at this point.
I believe in the Kitikmeot, we have one group home and that’s in Cambridge Bay.
And I’m not exactly sure whether there are beds available.
I think there might be six or eight, that’s available, I guess that would be in total for the entire Kitikmeot.
But then if you compare Kitikmeot to the other regions, I believe in the Kivalliq Region there might be as many as 50 or more beds in the Baffin Region well over 70 beds for youth.
So, you can see there is a great discrepancy between the regions in terms of providing group home facilities for our youth who are in need of help.
Where it becomes a large issue is when the social workers are looking for foster parents, for kids with foster care, or in a home and they don’t have foster care.
There are not enough people to or willing or able to take in more children when you don’t have a group home facility to assist with that problem.
So, I wonder if the Minister could comment on what their plans are or what their department’s plans are for providing more group home type facilities in the Kitikmeot.
Those are very good questions.
I’ll ask my Deputy Minister to respond...
The first line of our initiative, right now, has been basically to do an inventory across all three regions in terms of the number of group homes, elders’ facilities and those types of things, so we have that information, currently.
What we will be doing hopefully, next year, Mr. Chairman, is that we will be looking at some kind of strategy to look at where is the need.
We know clearly that in the Kitikmeot region, based on all the resource allocations and staffing, we know that it does not compare with the other two regions, and with the group homes, as well.
Our hope is to come forward with a plan in the new year to address that need and then put forward to our Minister a recommendation on how we might do that over the next three to five years.
Mr. Peterson, supplementary.
Another issue of concern in my riding is the need for special care facilities.
I have been in touch with Minister’s officials to help two or three people in my riding with serious problems that their families just couldn’t help them, and one got sent to a special care facility, and I think that there are some already down south, but there are several others in Cambridge Bay who require special care facilities, and it is very difficult for the families and the communities at large.
I also know that to send people out, it is very costly.
It could be as much as $1,000 a day, or more.
I am wondering if the Minister or her officials could comment on what their department is doing to look at how you can assist people who need special care facilities in their communities, or be sent to special care facilities.
Those are very good concerns.
I can respond partially.
Due to the lack of group homes in Nunavut, there are over 90 people who are outside of Nunavut, and it is very expensive to have people outside of Nunavut.
What we had thought of was that we want to bring the people back to the north and this will have to be worked on, and I will want to include you during our plans.
I will ask my Deputy Minister to add to that.
There are a number of things that our department has done so far.
I think that up until about a year ago, we didn’t even know how many people we had that were in this category, that we were funding or paying for outside of territory.
Now we have that information today.
The next step is to determine how many of those, there are 45 children and 45 adults, that are currently being housed out of territory in these special group homes.
The next step is to determine how many of those could be brought back to Nunavut.
Hopefully, build capacity here so a business case, hopefully, in the foreseeable future would be coming forward to our Minister.
The second piece of that is that we are also looking at doing an inventory of how many children in this particular category, Mr. Chairman, do we have in Nunavut?
I guess that that’s never been done.
We don’t have a good idea of the number of children that we have that require specialized services at this time.
Also I think a bit of good news, Mr. Chairman, is that we have looked at developing three rehabilitation programs; one each of the regional health centres.
And you will note, when you visit the Cambridge Bay Health Centre, for example, that it has a fairly large rehabilitation area.
I guess that has been put in for that purpose.
So we have a program, currently, reasonably well advanced in Nunavut, and that is fairly new.
We have another one that has started in the Rankin Inlet area, and hopefully our next step is to try and establish a rehabilitation service in the Kitikmeot area, as well.
The other piece of that is, I am sorry the answer is long, but there are four pieces to dealing with the continuing of care for these children.
The other piece, as well, is that we also have to train our home community care workers to provide additional supports in the home for parents who have children with severe disability.
So we will be working on that as well in the future and then of course, the idea would be to look at whether or not we could build, if we can create a critical mass or a cluster of these types of clients, look at building the group home that will accommodate that, the same type of model as Chesterfield Inlet .
So then we will begin work, then we will continue on in the coming year.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you. Mr. Alagalak.
I was reading through this document it is called Nunavut Addictions and Mental Healthcare Strategy, prepared by Health and Social Services.
In March 2002, what I found on Page 29 a priority recommendation 2, will establish a 24-7 facility for severely and persistently mentally ill clients in Iqaluit.
I think that has been done.
Then #2, it says to explore or respite/group home facility in the Kitikmeot Region and in the background it says; growing number of clients in each region similar to those clients in #1 above. #1 above being persistently mentally ill.
So I am wondering if the minister and his officials could update me on where that project is at right now in this current fiscal year.
Hon. Levinia Brown (interpretation): We are planning those and this will be ongoing and if that is approved by the Cabinet, then we will proceed.
The closer to home plan; we would like to see the content of that.
We will plan on this, depending on the funding we will have.
In the last few days, my colleague from Kugluktuk and I have been talking about the problems with women’s crisis shelters in the Kitikmeot and the concern is that there is only one that is operational.
I was in Yellowknife in early September I had an opportunity to visit and tour the Alison McAteer House, that is operated by the YWCA.
I believe they said it’s a government facility.
I am wondering why, in Nunavut, the Government of Nunavut doesn’t provide facilities such as women’s crisis shelters.
It’s left to the hamlets to develop those crisis shelters and operate them, although you do provide the operational funding.
The Department of Health and Social Services give funds to the hamlet councils and then it’s handled by the hamlet councils.
They are very different from community to community.
Some already have some existing buildings, and I know the funding comes from the government.
Chairperson (interpretation): Do you want to make an addition?
I think that’s always a good question; should we operate facilities, whether they are boarding homes or shelters.
I think in essence the direction that I, I have worked in six jurisdictions, so I can speak with some experience.
Typically the best null is when communities own or operate a facility because there is more sensitivity to the issues within those communities.
The government operating all facilities, I guess that there are many and there are some models like that, but for the most part, shelters and group homes typically are operated, in my experience anyway, by non-profit agencies and I believe that is a good model that communities have an ability to operate and run those facilities but the government contributes to that.
So, that’s about all I can say.
Thank you, Minister and Mr. Blais. How many women’s crisis shelters are currently operating in our Nunavut communities?
I don’t have the information right in front of me but I think Rosemary Brown can answer that.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Ms. Rosemary Brown.
Ms. Rosemary Brown: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Right now there are women’s shelters in Iqaluit, Rankin Inlet and Kugluktuk and in some cases women are flown in from other communities for respite there, or sometimes in the case there are beds available in Yellowknife or Churchill, depending on whether if the others are full or if those communities are closer.
Chairman: Thank you, Rosemary Brown.
I think I heard Ms. Rosemary Brown say that only there’s only three crisis shelters operational in Nunavut.
I think that Cambridge Bay has a crisis shelter, Kugluktuk does have a crisis shelter, but if I hear correctly from my colleague in Kugluktuk that’s not operating.
So it’s still only that we have three crisis shelters, is that correct, Ms. Rosemary Brown?
Rosemary Brown.
Ms. Rosemary Brown: My understanding is that the one in Kugluktuk was operational, I may have had the wrong information.
Last week, I tabled a resolution from the Kitikmeot Inuit Association’s Annual General Meeting that the women of the Kitikmeot that they asked for help from the government to establish crisis shelters in each of their communities.
I don’t know what form, whether it’s to provide funding to help them operate, or to provide a physical structure. I appreciate Mr. Blais’ comments that it’s better for the community to operate it, and I happen to agree with that.
However it becomes difficult on the community level for hamlets for example who are constantly underfunded, on many fronts, to operate a facility, find a facility in the first place and then fund operations and maintenance.
I know that the government does not fund them 100 percent so that places a huge burden on them to find the additional funding.
One of the great difficulties in operating crisis facilities is that you pretty much have to keep it open 365 days a year and most Nunavut communities, where they have them.
So it’s going to cost you $160,000 and you only have $85,000, there’s a problem there.
I think that’s what happened in Kugluktuk, it can’t operate due to funding problems.
In Cambridge Bay they are managing.
So I think it’s something that your department should look at very seriously.
Look at providing facilities, regional facility.
As Ms. Rosemary Brown said that those facilities are full then the people have to be sent somewhere else and you can’t leave them in a dangerous situation especially if they don’t have family members to help them out.
I wanted to move on, Mr. Chairman, if I can get an update on the patient boarding home facility that is going to be constructed next year as part of the overall Kitikmeot Health Facility Project.
If Mr. Blais, or the minister could update me on that.
In regards to the question of the proposed boarding homes.
Yes, we’ve been looking at the old school site.
It’s two floors and the new one will be revamped because since it’s more than one story, we’ll have to install an elevator in the building and I’m sure that my colleague knows that this building is going to be utilized in Cambridge Bay.
Yes, we are lacking facilities and we have limited resources and that’s why we’re working on the plans of the boarding home.
As I have stated, it will start in January 2005.
I’d like to thank the Minister for that.
Just to clarify, I think that the boarding home will be open in January 2006, not 2005.
I’m a bit unclear as to how the logistics are going to work when the health facility, itself, opens.
I don’t have an exact date.
I think it might be in March or April.
You’re going to bringing in patients to Cambridge Bay from around the Kitikmeot but you don’t have a patient boarding home open until January.
If there is a delay, it could be further into 2006.
How is the Department of Health going to accommodate patients coming in from other communities looking for medical treatment at the health facility if the boarding home isn’t available until 2006.
According to my understanding, the plan is that the buildings will be used in Cambridge Bay before this boarding home has been opened.
The hospital will be open in March 2005, and we’ve been looking at leasing private buildings and my Deputy will made a supplementary response.
In regards to the women’s shelter, the Kugluktuk Women’s Shelter is operating.
Their first funding was received and they signed off the funds.
So therefore the Kugluktuk Women’s Shelter is in operation.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you. Mr. Blais.
The idea in regards to how the health patients will be housed in that period, is we in Iqaluit, for example, we use billeting.
We have a lot of patients housed in private housing by individuals, so we’ll be looking at that, hotels and other accommodations.
So that will be the strategy for that time.
You have to keep in mind as well, Mr. Chairman, that the hospital won’t be open 100 percent on day.
It will take us about up to the end of December to open the health centre completely because there is staff training involved, recruitment, as well as a lot of the programs, some of the programs that will be introduced in Cambridge Bay, do not exist right now.
So, we expect that that will take approximately nine months for the health centre to be fully open so we feel that we can accommodate the volume of patients that will be coming to Cambridge Bay through this other process, hotels and billeting mostly.
I think one thing that we have to keep in mind is we don’t want to be constructing these facilities and having them be opened, be there and not be operational.
I think we’re going to be affected a little bit by the recruitment strategies of your department in terms of finding doctors and nurses and other health professionals to go into a facility and provide those medical services, whether it be in Cambridge Bay or Rankin Inlet or even here when the new hospital opens.
I wonder if the Minister, or Mr. Blais, could comment on the overall recruitment strategies to make sure that you have people in the facility providing the medical care when they open and phase it in until it’s 100 percent fully operational.
We’re on page H-7.
Yes, we’ve been quite concerned about this issue due to lacking nurses, and doctors and equipment.
And yes, this is quite heavy of a concern for us because we have heard in nation wide we are in shortage of nurses and we have heard through the media that one hospital is closing due to shortage of nurses and the experts keep continually say that by the year 2000 we’ll be in shortage of nurses because a lot of, they majority of the nurses will be retiring.
I can say, that we have staff, that we have nurses that are arriving from overseas.
We are looking at 50 nurses for February, 2005, and an additional 50 that we will be requesting, prior to September 2005, there will be 100 nurses.
Since Canada is in shortage of nurses, the Canadian provinces, they do look for nurses overseas and I’m sure that everyone is aware of that.
Yes, we have to proceed and we have to be very careful with our patients and that we have to handle all these.
I really appreciate the questions that are being posed.
Those two health centres in Rankin Inlet and Cambridge Bay are going to be opened in March 2005.
After having said that, the equipment will be needed too because all the wiring and all the plumbing will have to be inspected for 2 months even after it’s been opened to make sure the hospital is inspected.
My Deputy Minister, Mr. Blais will make an additional response.
There are a number of initiatives that are happening.
I guess the Minister has just alluded to the international and national recruitment strategy.
I guess effective as of tomorrow.
We have two people that will be accompanying Trillium, a company that we have hired to help us recruit 100 nurses to up to December 15th.
So, we’re working towards that February deadline to recruit 50 nurses.
So, that is under way.
We also have been very successful in recruiting physicians.
We now have a dedicated position equipment person.
And the result is that we have recruited five new physicians for Iqaluit right now.
Two will be coming in January and one with the specialty in geriatric or elder care as well, which is very unique.
So, this physician recruitment process, Mr. Chairman, it seems to be moving along very well.
We have another prospect for Cambridge Bay we have been working on for at least three months and we believe that unless we’ve missed the balls that person we’ll be coming on board as well in the foreseeable future.
We have two other prospects as well.
The only piece of that in terms of physician recruitment, Mr. Chairman, is that our Medical Director has been meeting with all of the universities.
He’s just come back from Manitoba, with myself and the Minister recently meeting with the universities to look at asking for their help inspecting our new health centres.