EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
That is the designation in the legislation that is being brought forward, I know for example Mr. Chairman, when Mr. Morin was removed from the position of Premier in the GNWT that Mr. Arlooktoo who was nominated and named previously by Mr. Morin as Deputy Premier, in de facto became the Premier.
I want to congratulate the Clerk and his staff for actually having the opportunity and the foresight for putting the Deputy Premier’s position in the new Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, so that you would not have that type of grey area if something happened to the Premier, you would actually know who to go to officially and legislatively.
With that Mr. Chairman, I will allow other members to ask questions and comments on the bill.
At the appropriate time I will be supporting Bill 22 when it comes to a vote.
Just before I recognize another member I would like to recognize a visitor in the gallery.
Mr. Commissioner Peter Irniq and beside him is an individual that I know very well and worked with.
They went to school in Chesterfield Inlet, welcome.
First of all, I would like to say when I was nominated and when I was campaigning I used to say that I would like to be elected so that I could help amend the statutes were not relevant to our way of life in Nunavut.
I would say that we would like to see legislation that would be Nunavut friendly and I’m very glad that we’re doing it here is this House also.
I know that in the north it’s very hard to survive in this harsh, cold environment.
It’s difficult to survive because in our way of life today we don’t live traditionally now and many have almost forgotten our traditional ways.
Today we now live contemporary lives and we should be using, we should make the legislation reflect our way of life.
As our Speaker had stated in his opening comments, that Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit would be used as a foundation and I’m very glad to hear that.
I’ve never heard that before so I was very glad to hear that mentioned in the house.
When I heard that for the first time in the House today and when we’re dealing with the bill and that this bill would be friendlier to our way of life.
And we all know that in Nunavut goods and services are becoming more expensive and the regular members of Legislative Assembly during the session can’t stay home because we’ve already committed ourselves to this job and we have to keep commuting back to the communities to see our children, our family of mothers.
We would like to be able to provide for them and this is a very, I didn’t realize this is very difficult to deal with now that I’m experiencing it.
When you leave your family behind we don’t want to leave them hungry or we don’t want to leave them out in the cold so there fore I’m very proud to say that we’re dealing with this Bill 22.
And now we’ll be in support with the passage of this Bill 22.
For that reason, even though, for those of us who did not grow up in with the proper education, even if I don’t speak English according to the rules and regulations that if I want to get job I won’t be able to get a job if I’m an Inuktitut unilingual speaking person and this has had an impact on me and it has had an effect on me and also, I would like to say that its going to touch this bill.
According to the statutes we live by, yes they have an effect.
A negative effect on us.
Many of our children commit suicide and even though we love them. The individuals commit suicide and the staff works according to the guidelines that are not reflecting our way of life.
As Nunavut residents that’s how we see it and experience it, and I am very proud to say that, as Nunavut residents we can make legislation that can closely reflect our way of life.
In view of that, I believe that in our future our younger generation will live in very difficult times because of the contamination and pollution of the world, things are changing in the world.
I know with all these things they will have difficult challenges to face in the future, even though it would have very good purposes.
So therefore we have to make a road for the younger people and we have to continue to work towards things that they can effectively use.
I wanted to make that comment, I don’t have many questions at this time because I don’t see any problems with this bill.
I understand you, thank you.
I didn’t hear a question, but that was a good general comment.
Member for the Legislative Assembly, Ms. Thompson.
I don’t have any questions, but I do have general comments to make.
Although I am very pleased to see the bill, I should mention first of all in regards to the Speaker’s opening remarks, I thank you for that.
It says in his presentation that this is the first time that they will include Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit as a foundation and it will be explicitly recognized in law as something the Assembly and its members may take into consideration during their deliberations and also that we can decide how Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit can be used.
Mr. Chairman, I want to say that the Nunavut Government functions with parliamentary procedures and rules that were made overseas.
When we use Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit, I don’t know if we will use it in the parliamentary rules and procedures, but I am very glad to see it explicitly recognized in law.
Even for the public to understand how the government works as the ministers here when the regular members ask us questions during question period, but we can’t question the regular members as cabinet members.
If we had followed Inuit culture and traditions we would be asking questions of each member and have more negotiations between the Cabinet and the regular members.
The public doesn’t understand the system because the Inuit way of life, according to the Legislative Assembly’s rules and procedures is foreign to the Inuit way of life.
We have not used Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit as a foundation, we are using the parliamentary rules and procedures that were made in England.
Perhaps we should be asking the question why does a Member of the Legislative Assembly become a Speaker.
I like our Speaker and he is working very well, and I am very pleased with him.
But since we became the Nunavut Government and since we split from the NWT, we have been thinking about the Speaker and why does one of the Members of the Legislative Assembly become a Speaker.
That question has been posed by the public.
When he sits on his chair, he doesn’t sit with the other Members of the Legislative Assembly.
If we are going to be using Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit, we should get an individual who knows traditional knowledge.
That individual could be trained in the parliamentary procedures.
Why can't we get a Speaker who is not a member of the Legislature?
These kinds of questions pop up.
Mr. Chairman, when I was a teacher at the high school, I taught civics where you teach about different forms of government.
When we were forming the government we should probably have asked people like Tagak Curley and Peter Irniq who have been members of the previous Legislative Assembly, and Mark Evaluardjuk.
If we could have asked these individuals, what kind of system would you like to see the Legislative Assembly using?
What are the rules and procedures?
Perhaps we would see different rules and procedures for the House.
We have never had formal government, our elders were our government traditionally.
Our elders' council were the like the legislature before the Europeans arrived.
It is very hard to understand as an Inuk individual when you see federal parliamentary debate on TV and they are disrespectful to each other.
It is very hard to know if they are acting like adults, when you watch them.
They point fingers at each other and they look immature.
Sometimes they have to tow the party line.
These are foreign ways to us as Inuk people.
I don’t have a question, Mr. Chairman, when NIC started working on this maybe they should have asked these questions.
We did not have a way of life like that because, myself, I am still a bit too young to understand the elders system.
Inuit elders communicate with each other to bring out all their ideas and suggestions and come up with a solid consensus, Mr. Chairman.
When we talk about men and women, they should be able to talk on an equal level for a better understanding of what each person is saying.
If it was up to the Inuit, I am sure that we would have a different system, if we had asked our elders.
I am not saying that I oppose this bill but I just wanted to make my point.
I think it is a little different today, usually it is only regular members that have an opportunity to ask questions and make suggestions.
I am very glad to see that everyone is able to participate at this meeting.
Mr. Chairman, as the members know I also sit as a member of the Management Services Board and I have worked with the Speaker and the Clerk’s Office reviewing the drafts coming up to the thing that we have here the final product of the new Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act.
I just want to commend the staff for their work, a very thorough and comprehensive review and research into developing a piece of legislation that does more accurately reflects our needs and circumstances that we face here in Nunavut and Mr Chairman, that’s all I wanted to say for general comments.
I have three clauses that I’ll be asking some questions on and I’ll wait until then to do it.
In regards to the opening comments of the speaker, I would like to touch up a little bit on Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit.
Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit is a new saying of the government but there were some references to members of the previous NWT as the genesis but I don’t believe that.
It is the ITC, NTI, who have been working a long time to integrate Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit into their system.
But at times it’s hard to know how we’re going to implement that into the Nunavut Government.
We have our system now, which is different from the days before the Europeans came.
I think that we have to work a little bit closer together so that we can integrate Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit into the government system and into the pieces of legislation.
That’s what I wanted to say.
If there are no further comments, we will then go clause by clause.
Bill 22.
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): Thank you, I have a question.
The population in Nunavut is growing.
During the OIC days, they made some suggestions based on the population at the time.
Is this in agreement with that recommendation that was made by OIC?
Response, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Chairman, can I ask the member to repeat the question or rephrase the question.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Iqaqrialu, please rephrase your question.
The electoral districts were decided based on the population and they came up with 19 ridings.
Is there an opportunity to amend this portion to keep up with the growing population?
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Iqaqrialu, your question is in Clause 3, which was agreed to.
I will read number 9 in Inuktitut.
It says, a majority of members including the Speaker, constitutes a quorum of the Legislative Assembly.
I am just basing my question on that.
Clause 9 talks about the quorum in the House.
In Clause 3, it says there will be 19 electoral districts.
I misunderstood the clause.
Chairperson (interpretation): We are on Clause 9.
So do I understand that in Clause 9, we are speaking about the quorum in the House, including the Speaker?
I can respond to that, I don’t have to have the Speaker respond, that is a clear yes.
Carried. Clause 10.
Carried. Clause 11.
Carried. Clause 12.
Clause 13. Agreed.
Carried. Clause 14.
Carried. Clause 15.
Carried. Clause 16.
Carried. Clause 17.
Carried. Clause 18.
Carried. Clause 19.
Carried. Clause 20.
Carried. Clause 21.
Carried. Clause 22.
Carried. Clause 23.
My question is on Clause 23.
I believe we’re talking about committee meetings according to this Act.
Are we talking about all committees?
Speaker: Yes, we are.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Arvaluk, anything else.
Clause 24.
Clause 25.
Mr. Chairperson, Clause 25 makes reference to Schedule C. It’s on Page 39 in the bill and the first one there talks about the indemnity of the members, entitled to a number per year and I know that this increased from the existing number.
I would just like to ask the Speaker, as he indicated in his opening comments that these increases coincide with increases that our public service has received.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you. Mr. Speaker.
Clause 26.
Clause 27.
I have two questions on 27 (a) and 27 (e).
Mr. Chairman, it says here that the indemnity set out in Section 3 of Schedule C shall be paid to every member who attends the meeting of a special or standing committee at the Legislative Assembly, of which he or she is a member.
I think we all know that at times we cannot make it in due to weather and the alternates are then asked to attend meetings.
As alternates or even if they’re not alternates, they attend those standing or special committee meetings because a member of a committee cannot come in because of weather.
Is that going to create a problem as 27 (a) stands?
It says here of which he or she is a member.
Will that not create a problem?
I will ask the Clerk to address that question.
The money issue.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Clerk.
That is one of the main reasons why when the Assembly strikes a standing committee or special committee that they have alternates.
And if there is a member can’t make it and the committee can’t function because there is not a quorum we can call in the alternates to participate in that meeting and the alternates would be paid per diem rate that is in force that is assigned to the committees.
So weather conditions do play havoc with our work but that’s why we have alternates and if alternates are needed for a quorum and they are asked to participate they will be paid for work performed.
Mr. Arvaluk: I hope the lawyers will agree with that particular 27(a) with the Clerk’s explanation.
The second question that I have is 27(e), attends the duty of the Regular Members’ Caucus.
I thought this was a voluntary thing that we attend.
I didn’t think we got paid for that.
If it’s not in the session or for example, Baker Lake Retreat, is that the kind of a Regular Members’ Caucus, or Cambridge Bay Regular Members’ Session or workshops, something along those lines, because I thought Regular Members’ Caucus which we hold every second day was a voluntary thing.
Speaker: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The short and simple answer is yes. Mr. Clerk also wishes to add to this particular concern.
The member is correct, this is new.
As the Speaker and other members said in their opening comments on the bill.
This is new, this is a first and this reflects the important work that non-members of cabinet do and in part it flows one could say from Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit and the work of members that is valuable for all members.
The rules apply to Regular Members’ Caucus from the point of view that if regular caucus meetings occur during session time it is not payable.
But when regular members meet outside of the session they are worthy of payment.
Do you want to continue Mr. Arvaluk?
Clause 28.
Clause 29.
Clause 30.
Clause 31.
Clause 32.
Clause 33.
Mr. Chairman, this clause in here I would just like to first off ask the Speaker, is this something new in the legislation.
Mr. Chairman, could I please ask the Speaker if he could give an explanation as to why it is included and what it is for.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Tootoo.
Mr. Speaker.  Speaker: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I will allow the Clerk to provide some information on that item. Thank you.
As the Speaker mentioned this is a new clause.
This new clause actually keeps Nunavut in stride with all of the other jurisdictions across Canada where members are paid transitional allowances after serving a term or more.
The transitional allowances in the private sector or the government sector goes by the term of severance pay.
Members will get a severance pay when they complete their services.
So first of all, as I said, the transitional allowance paid to members is new and it is consistent with what happens across the country.
When we did our research we found all the other jurisdictions across Canada pay their members a transitional allowance which is no different than when an employee for example, from the Government of Nunavut resigns, he gets a severance pay based on the number of years service etc.
So it is also tied into that concept too.
So it is consistent with the rest of the country and with what we pay in terms of benefits provided to employees, the same way that members’ indemnities are tied into the collective bargaining process in terms of increases.
Mr. Chairman, I am glad to hear that we are falling in line with the rest of the country and I think if I am interpreting what the Clerk is saying correctly, that this is something that is, I don’t know, maybe he didn’t say it, but is it a new phenomenon across the country that has been in place.
Or is this something that the other jurisdictions have always had for a long time or is it something new.
Speaker: Mr. Chairman, it’s a combination I guess of both.
A number of provinces had it for many, many years and some are just adopting it and our sister territory, the NWT, have adopted this practice also in recent years.
So we are for the most part falling in line with the other provinces.
Do you wish to continue?
Mr. Chairman, the Clerk also indicated that this is basically falling in line with what our public servants get in the way of a severance package.
In the research that they did, does it show that members of the public service receive a severance allowance after four years of employment?
I believe that it depends on the level of the position the person holds.
In some cases it can be two years that they are eligible for severance in the management field of course.
Mr. Tootoo do you want to continue?
Mr. Chairman, I guess just looking at the name of it on top of the severance one would assume that the purpose of having this clause in here is to assist members in the transition once they retire or if they don’t get re-elected from public life back into the private life.
So I just would like confirmation that’s what one of the purposes behind this clause being in the Act.
Would you like to respond, Mr. Speaker?
Yes, basically what the member stated, it is the adjustment for a member.
Mr. McLean: Ma’na Itsivauta. Mr. Tootoo just woke me up here.
We going a little quick clause by clause and I want to ask some questions and I want to ask the Assembly here to forgive me if my questions are a little naïve.
Being new this Assembly and our third anniversary is fast approaching us.
I thought that you know, politicians in general were very well taken care of and I can’t dispute that but on an issue of transitional allowance and a severance package after four years.
If we don’t get re-elected we’re basically fired, aren’t we.
That’s my interpretation of it.
And anybody that has four years work in any industry in this territory the first thing they do if they’re fired is run to a lawyer and they have a very nice severance package and I know in this government there’s quite a few, not quite a few, but there are people in this government that walk away with excellent severance packages that I heard through the grapevine.
I would never ask the question in the House because I’d probably be aghast.
You know, but I know in the GNWT some Deputy Ministers walk away with two and three hundred thousand dollars after 2 or 3 years.
And you know, I’m looking at our retiring whatever we call it here.
But on the transitional allowance.
I look around this room, it’s not too many of us, if we got fired at the end of our term are going to walk into another job.
We can’t go to our lawyer and say ha, I was terminated here and I’m not looking for sympathy at all because we are ultimately responsible for the electorate.
But if we are fired at end of our term then we’re out in the street and a lot of us, are lucky to have what we have in this territory now.
Some of us don’t have spouses working, some of us do have spouses working.
So we get fired at the end of our term, we basically have to live off of our spouses, if they’re working.
And the thing that kind of disturbs me a bit is that, you know, we get a little severance package, it’s going to be difficult for the next MLA and cabinet minister, more so for the cabinet ministers. Because I think they have a clause where they’re not allowed to get government contracts or work for the government for a certain length of time.
And the Speaker for six months after they get fired to me that’s a little unfair in this time and age, so, you know, I don’t want to say that I’m looking for sympathy here, I’m not.
But I’m just saying there should be equality in Canada.
That’s what we strive for is a little bit of equality.
And if some civil servant gets fired after 2, 3, or 4 years, they also get something called UI that MLAs are not eligible for.
And that could be anywhere between 20 to 30 thousand dollars along with their generous severance package.
And I’m not saying it’s wrong, I think it’s great in this country today that people are treated like human beings.
So anyhow, there is just a little question here.
What I’m getting to here is my question.
Is the face of this Assembly is going to change and it will probably change after the election in October.
Whenever it is.
Next year some time.
And I don’t want to say the wrong thing here and I don’t want to sound a like a male chauvinist.
But something just comes to mind here.
What happens if we have some more ladies elected into the Assembly and after the first year they have to take maternity leave?
How are they taken care of because they don’t get EI benefits?
That’s a question I don’t think I can answer but I believe Mr. Quirke has a lot of experience in that area so I’ll let him address it.
Clerk: Thank you Mr. Chairperson.
The easy answer of course you have to plan on this and from the administration point of view, you would still get paid.
The only provision, which we have within the Act I believe for any type of wage recovery, is during session time, but it would have to be a good reason why we would deduct pay for a missing a session.
I guess if we have a recess situation then obviously the Management Services Board may have to rule on that.
But right now the Act is silent and it just says that you are paid per Schedule 1, Part 1 of Schedule C, 70 thousand or 60 thousand a year.
There is no provision for any type of recovery like that and so we still pay the way the Act is written right now.
So I am of the understanding then that if there is a lady elected to the Assembly, and she has to take 12 months maternity leave and not show up for the sessions because she can’t find a sitter, or because of the newborn baby and things like that.
She is taken care of or the member is taken care of and this member doesn’t have to worry about having to go out and get a part time job while she is raising her child in her community, to pay the bills.
So it’s all taken care of.
By missing six or twelve months of the Assembly she is not penalized or she can’t lose her seat in the House or something like that.
So is this all taken care of in the Act?
Thank you, that’s it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman, as the Clerk indicated the Act is silent at this time.
Mr. McLean poses a good question, I wouldn’t want to think what that would do for somebody’s re-election or whatever, but I would say, or suggest that the Clerk would review and do some research on this to see what other jurisdictions do in this case, if anything.
Mr. Chairman, I am not going to go on much longer here, it’s just that if a member and it doesn’t necessarily have to be a female. But if a male member like the Premier, wants to adopt a child and take a year to raise his child, he is covered off also so he doesn’t have to worry about pumping gas or running out there to find a part time job to pay his mortgage and food bills.
So I am hoping that after this sitting today, that these are all considered because we are a new jurisdiction and a lot of us don’t think about what will happen a year from now.