EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
We will be taking possession of both of the buildings, the actual facility and the residential building, at the end of this month and we plan on moving in and providing inmate services there within six months of that date.
As soon as we get our hands on the facilities, hiring action is in the process right now, competitions will go out, and we are actually going to assist HR in the hiring process as the department of Corrections so that we may ensure it gets done.
It seems the expectation is that the facility will open this summer and that it can house inmates prior to the fall season. Will you start transferring inmates to this facility prior to that time?
I don’t think that’s going to be possible just due to the fact of hiring staff and there is going to be a huge amount of training going and a huge amount of training in just the protocol of the facility itself.
So I don’t think that can happen by this summer.
Ms. Ell (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wish to thank the minister and his officials for being here to answer our questions. Thank you.
I believe that we’re on page E-4. This contains a statement about an issue that I believe most Nunavummiut don’t always think about. We all know that one day, we will face death.
Not all of us are prepared for what would happen in the case of death in the form known as a will. Am I being correct when I say that many Nunavummiut don’t have their wills drawn up?
I thank Ms. Ell for a very good question too.
This point has been brought out to the Department of Justice before, previous to me.
It has been taken very much into consideration. In fact, a will kit has been established.
It’s ready to go and it’s going to be available to all individuals of Nunavut.
That’s good news. I wonder if you have an idea of when that might happen.
I would hope it’s going to happen very soon.
As I say, it’s complete.
What we’re waiting for is the translation of the kit to happen and it will be distributed as soon as that is done.
Ms. Ell (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would also like to thank the minister and we will be expecting that soon.
At this time, everyone is aware that we have to fill out income tax returns. In the past year, however, many people have loved ones who passed away.
They are now starting to receive forms and when they do, what do surviving widowers and widows have to do with these returns and where would they go?
They wouldn’t come to Justice, but I think we could find out the answer for you, Mr. Chairman. I think they would probably go to the Public Trustee or somebody who could provide those services, but we could provide that answer to Ms. Ell later.
I would like to remind the members that if there are less than 10 members, there is no quorum.
We almost had no quorum.
Let’s remember that we need quorum.
If you need to leave the Chamber, please make sure there are 10 members in the House so that we have quorum.
We are on page E-4.
Mr. Enook wanted to ask a question when we reached this page.
My question might be too detailed, but my constituents have asked me to raise this question.
Let me first ask this question.
I believe there is an agreement between the RCMP and the Nunavut government to provide police services in Nunavut. The question I would like to ask relates to problems experienced by my constituents in Pond Inlet about having to call the police in Iqaluit for assistance.
It has caused a lot of problems in Pond Inlet. How big of a problem is this in Nunavut? What kind of solutions have you looked at with regard to this issue, Mr. Chairman?
Hon. Daniel Shewchuk: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank Mr. Enook for that question.
Yes, I have had discussion with Mr. Enook about this. It’s as much a concern for all communities, not just Pond Inlet. I think it’s an important one that we need to try and address as best as we can.
I would like to advise Mr. Enook that I have talked about this issue with the commanding officer of the RCMP in Iqaluit.
I’ll just outline some of the things that have come from the RCMP. The RCMP has a protocol in place that they will provide as much Inuktitut services as they can in the communities during their regular hours.
After hours, for any calls that come into the telecom centre in Iqaluit, they do have three full dedicated Inuktitut serving people there if needed. For the language of Inuktitut to be used in that call centre, they’re available for that to happen.
They are trying to address the issue as best as they can.
I think that Mr. Enook brings up a good point and the fact that when a unilingual caller calls in and there is nobody there who can respond back to them, it’s very difficult and it could be very important that somebody does respond back to them because there could be something very severe going on.
I’m sure that when a call does go into the call centre in Iqaluit from any community, from any person, if they can understand, even to the basics of what’s going on, the RCMP in the local community is dispatched to the information that they received to the best of their capabilities at the call centre.
We understand that it’s an issue and the commanding officer of the RCMP understands that it’s a concern.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Shewchuk. Mr. Enook.
One of the things that pop into people’s minds and which is often discussed is that when a person makes a call to the call centre… . Perhaps I’ll rephrase the question. When a call is answered here, how long does it take from when a call is made to when the police officer responds to the call?
Let me ask that first so I can understand. Thank you.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Enook. Minister Shewchuk.
My understanding is that if there is a call made into the call centre in Iqaluit, there is Inuktitut staff available to speak right now, immediately, to that person who needs to be spoken to. As soon as the information is found out that there is something taking place and the location of that something taking place, immediately if it’s severe, RCMP in that local community are dispatched.
I thank the minister for that response. Another common concern is that when a person calls, the person is drilled about who they are, where they are, what the problem is, what year they were born, whether they are female or male, and whether they are telling the truth. Callers start to think they will always face time-consuming questions when they’re calling out of extreme urgency.
When people are endlessly questioned, something can happen very quickly.
Has there been much thought given to improve that situation? It is thought to be so prevalent that people start to believe there will be no response. They are forced to make a long-winded story before the RCMP accepts and agrees to respond to the call.
Has that been something that is misunderstood or is that the way it is?
I have never called the call centre, but I have been assured by Commander McVarnock that as soon as they know a call comes in and there’s something taking place, something drastically severe taking place, that the local detachment will be dispatched.
There may be information gathering going on after that as the call continues, but as soon as they know that something is happening that needs RCMP attention, the local RCMP will be contacted as soon as they can and dispatched to that call.
I would just like to say too that I think what’s important here are the concerns that the member is bringing out too, but I think it’s also very important that if there are any situations like this that have happened that are documented, the RCMP are notified as soon as possible also.
I love to agree with the minister, but there’s this one problem and that’s with the last part of his remark that only if there’s a problem do the police have to be involved.
It becomes a problem when we also have to talk about the problem to these people.
Perhaps there should be a person who is familiar with people who feel they’re being victimized or some organizations they can appeal to.
I see that as being cumbersome.
Let me return to the community concerns.
Once I call the RCMP, the officers are called at their home.
Once I make the call, are the police officers in the community immediately called or is it until the call is determined not to be a prank call, is it an emergency call or can we categorize it as a non-emergency?
As the minister said, they would follow the urgency of the call. Who determines whether it’s an emergency? If it’s not considered an emergency, will it then take a while for the police officer to respond?
When somebody calls the RCMP, there is basic information they would need.
They would need information of what is taking place, what crime is being committed, where it is being committed at; they need that information to respond to a call. So there’s going to be a requirement for basic information.
If they find out that information, get that information, and assess the call, I’m not sure how they assess their calls and what protocol they have, but they must have a system in place.
If it’s an emergency and it needs responding to right away, I’m sure they will respond as soon as possible.
I also thank the minister for his response and for further clarity of his response.
Let me ask you this question instead.
At this point in time, based on what we know, is there any other way to call somewhere else other than the call centre here in Iqaluit?
I believe, during the day, there is the RCMP in the local detachment that you can contact at local numbers.
Even in some communities, there are probably day shifts, night shifts, and maybe a round of shifts that you can call local numbers.
In some communities, I think a lot of people do try to call that local number. Even if you do and they’re not there, you will get diverted to Iqaluit, to the RCMP telecom centre here.
I believe those are the avenues that are available. If you cannot connect with them in your local community, the call will automatically be transferred to Iqaluit.
I don’t think anyone would call the RCMP just to make small talk and say, “You can come by my house when you feel like it.” It’s only during an actual emergency that requires an immediate response that we try and call the police.
A lot of people believe that this whole system has to be reviewed and make it much more responsive.
I apologize to the minister because I don’t have an alternative to recommend.
I would if I did to make a contribution, but my question is whether this whole system can be reviewed. I know I cannot order you to do something, but I’m wondering if this could be contemplated further. Is this the best system we have?
At the end of the day, the police are serving the public here in Nunavut.
Nunavummiut have an expectation for prompt and appropriate service.
I don’t have a question, but if I could ask the minister if this call centre system for the Baffin region can be reviewed or at least if there could be a report afterwards explaining why it is the best possible system.
I appreciate Mr. Enook’s comments.
I think we can always try and improve protocols and standards that are in place.
I’m sure that Mr. McVarnock will be listening to what I’m saying and I can keep on relaying that message too. I would really like to encourage all members too. I would like to hear actual complaints of what’s happening out there so that we really understand what the issues are too.
I think you said you were done.
We see the RCMP members in our community every day in uniform around town. Their visible presence is comforting and brings a sense of security to community life.
The Member for Tununiq, Mr. Enook, touched on an issue that causes a rift between residents and the detachment, especially when people try calling them at night, long distance all the way down to Iqaluit while a crisis is unfolding.
Mr. Chairman, we know that if there should be a problem with the satellite, such as if it turned and faced the sun instead, like it happened before… .
We had a problem with the communications system.
If that can happen, it can happen again. I believe it was during one of our sessions when I couldn’t make any calls to my community.
It became stressful because you want to know what is happening.
It could be a lot harder for people who call the RCMP because they’re in a dangerous situation in the middle of the night.
They call the RCMP to ask for assistance. Should the satellite break down again, does the department have a preparedness plan when there’s a cry for help in the community?
Does the RCMP have a backup plan in place to ensure the local detachment can respond immediately to calls during the night?
I’m not sure if the RCMP has a plan in place for something like that happening.
However, in community emergency plans, there may be some protocol that addresses your issue that I’m unaware of.
However, you know, in all communities, if there is a problem in communication with getting a hold of the RCMP, however it may be through phones that aren’t working or you can’t get a hold of somebody, anybody and everybody in all communities, we will do whatever it takes to get a hold of those RCMP.
Usually, everybody in our communities knows where they live and you can go and knock on their door. You can try and find them and get them for whatever situation you may need them for.
As far as what protocol and plans that the RCMP has in place, I am not aware of anything like that.
We all know that we had a communication breakdown when the satellite developed a glitch.
I believe we must be prepared as elected members in the House.
I would like to urge the government to make preparations for another breakdown of the communication system and ensure the RCMP in the communities be available on a 24/7 basis in that eventuality.
I have no other comments to make.
Although I didn’t hear a question, you can respond if you wish to do so, Minister Shewchuk.
Go ahead, Minister Shewchuk.
I think I need to respond. That’s a very good point that Mr. Ningark brings out. I’m sure that the RCMP has a plan in place and we will attempt to get that plan provided to you.
We are on page E-5.
Law Enforcement. $29,606,000.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): I have a question under Law Enforcement. In the Second Assembly, we dealt with a similar situation.
We had questions at that time and as we heard that during regular hours... .
Could the minister elaborate what the regular hours are for making calls? We have different time zones here. What do regular hours mean?
What I mean by regular hours is anywhere between seven o’clock in the morning and six o’clock at night. I think a lot of RCMP offices are two-man detachments. They work during the day and are called during the evening, so they work regular government time hours.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): It seems clear that if it is regular hours, then there would be a response to emergency calls in the community.
Maybe I’m not understanding the question properly too.
I would think that if they are in the office during the regular work day and they get a call in their local detachment, they’re going to respond, yes.
They all have telephone numbers.
With regard to the call centre here in Iqaluit, could the minister tell us when… ? There are 24 or 25 communities that have to use the call centre.
I think it would be good to know what time the call centre becomes available.
My understanding of the call centre is that it’s there 24 hours a day.
I visited it here and it’s quite an operation. When I was there, there were three staff working there full-time. I think, in the evening shift, there are probably at least two staff that work there.
So it’s open 24 hours a day for availability for all communities.
Just in case the members might be on a callout in a community and if the phone rings in that office and nobody answers it, it’s diverted here.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Shewchuk Mr. Curley.
Yes, that is good news.
A few days ago, it was obvious and the minister was quite clear that they have to ask to determine if it is an emergency situation and what is happening.
The information can only be taken if you ask an individual about it and they give it.
There was a situation here at college facilities where the RCMP weren’t called when there was a standoff.
I suppose they didn’t ask if the person was armed with a gun. We support the RCMP and we were all shocked because it was in a nearby area.
It’s good to get information to lock your doors and to be watchful in such situations.
I want to ask the minister a question. The person who called the detachment is likely not to blame. Maybe they didn’t ask him if someone is carrying a gun.
Is that the minister’s understanding?
Mr. Curley brings up a very important point, I think, is that the RCMP, first of all, they do a wonderful job in Nunavut and we all need to commend them for keeping our communities safe.
Secondly, they do need to know specific information before they enter into circumstances to know whether it is safe or not to go into a place or a dwelling or house or whatnot.
There is specific information that is required for the safety of everyone.
I just wanted to make it clear because we were shocked as well that they were not aware that the person may be using a firearm during that incident. What was clear from the press report that I read about it is that they were not provided with that information.
So if there was any blame, the blame was sort of put on the caller.
I understand that the purpose of asking questions is to see whether or not there is danger and whether there is an emergency.
So my feeling is the call centre probably did not ask the proper questions when they were responding to the incident at the college facility the other day. Would you concur that they may not have asked the proper questions?
What I do agree with is that there was an issue that happened there.
I would hate to speculate on what happened there, but I am sure that the RCMP is looking into that type of situation to see how they can do business better.
We’re on page E-5.
Turn to page E-6.
Lawyer Support Services. $3,180,000.
I have a question. Yes, that is very helpful in terms of two divisions, Legislation and Legal and Constitutional Law.
I would like a little bit more information. I believe the whole legal system is under the mandate of the Department of Justice.
To a degree, this is under Constitutional Law. Is there a constitutional law division or is there a lawyer there or do you have lawyers outside of Nunavut who are on contract to deal with constitutional law?
Just quickly, what this Lawyer Support Services is, it’s to provide legal advice for the government on all matters, lawyers who work for us, and also for drafting bills and creating bills.
Specifically in regard to Mr. Curley’s question, I’ll have my deputy minister respond.
Mr. Tarnow.
Mr. Tarnow: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. The Legal and Constitutional Law Division of the Nunavut Department of Justice consists of ten legal counsels, including the director. These lawyers are involved in providing advice to the various departments, senior officials, and to the Executive Council.
It’s called the Legal and Constitutional Law Division because some of our advice is of a constitutional law nature. As we all know, we have a land claims agreement which has constitutional protection. So we often are looking at the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement, which is a constitutional document, in giving our advice to the government.
We are all members of the public service. We’re all what you would call in-house counsel.
We’re not people hired from outside.
We’re all permanent legal advisors who develop expertise in advising on the affairs of the Government of Nunavut, what we call public law and government law.
Chairman (Mr. Enook): Thank you, Mr. Tarnow.
I think this government, like I always say, is a creature of the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement. It is created under the land claims agreement under Article 4. I believe the Nunavut government should have the best or one of them at least at all times, an expert on the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement.
Not iffy, maybe it doesn’t apply, maybe it’s not binding. Why is it that the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement doesn’t appear to have a serious profile within the justice department?
I’ll pass that question on to Deputy Minister Tarnow.
Mr. Tarnow: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Nunavut Land Claims Agreement is very important to every one of the legal advisors in the Legal and Constitutional Law Division. It’s a foundation document for every one of the legal counsels in the advice that they give to the Government of Nunavut and to the Executive Council. It’s taken very seriously indeed.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Tarnow.
But when it comes to some of the applications of the territory or the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement, often though, the justice department is asked to seek outside legal counsel with respect to dealing with some provisions of the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement. I’m not going to any specific stuff, but why not develop or hire someone who is at least full time and has some understanding of the whole important document?
I appreciate Mr. Curley’s concern. I think it’s very important that we have lawyers on staff with the Government of Nunavut in our Department of Justice who look into legal and constitutional law. However, I do think that some of the problems we have in justice is the high turnover of lawyers sometimes, that we have staff always coming and going too.
I think, when we need to seek legal advice outside the government, we do go and look for expertise in that field, which is very important too.
I also think that when it comes to the land claims and dealing with the land claims too, NTI has their own legal people and legal advice that they get. I think we share information back and forth with lawyers in regard to the land claims agreement.
He used some of the examples that I want to get. For instance, on the wildlife issues, I think that the government is perhaps a lot more in tune with Article 5 in implementing the obligations as set out in the agreement.
But when it comes to the other stuff like the Inuit employment plans and everything that requires setting targets in compliance with the provisions to comply with the population, no one really seems to be serious about it.
And that is evident throughout.
Whose responsibility is it? Should the Department of Justice, in some ways, take the lead in ensuring that compliance is important, even though you’re not specifying exactly what the priorities should be?
I think it’s a good point. I think that all of us, all departments, have to understand that the land claims agreement has targets and those priorities should be set by all of us to try and reach those targets. I do get where Mr. Curley is going in the fact that somebody, and maybe it should be Justice, should take the lead to ensure and push people to get there.
I’ll pass on the question to DM Tarnow. I think he has some comments to add.
Mr. Tarnow: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Like all lawyers, we give advice to our clients but our clients are the ones who decide whether they’re going to follow our advice at times.
I don’t know if that answers your question, Mr. Curley.
Chairman: Qujannamiik, Deputy Minister and Minister.
That’s a common lawyer’s excuse, that you only give advice. It’s up to the minister or whatnot or the cabinet to support it, right? That’s the way I understand it.
What I’m trying to get at is once the law has been established and agreements are in place, that only then, compliance is important to all affected departments in pushing it.
Some of the officials will not automatically understand the managers or DM. They won’t have any interest in discussing some of the provisions in the agreement that may affect their departments.
I’ll give you an example. Minister, I’ll ask you a question. For instance, is Article 24 binding on local governments or hamlets?
I don’t think I’m qualified to answer that question.
I might have an opinion about it, but I don’t have the legal expertise to answer that question.