EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Hon. Jack Anawak: What I'm trying to say is that there are proposals that have three-party funding and I mentioned earlier that if the hamlet is prepared to put some money for work or in kind such as gravel to do whatever project.
Another area would be the private sector in which case some mining companies might come forward with some funding.
That is the way we have been moving forward.
However, all I said was after the meeting I had with the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs, I was quite hopeful that at least in our case a couple of the projects that we would probably look at might fit under the criteria that Indian Affairs had to get some funding.
However, if that money doesn't come forward and the proposals are already there without necessarily the Indian Affairs funding, if the money does come forward that's good, if the money doesn't come forward then we have to look at seeing if we have to go out to more private companies to look for or if we have to expend more of the 300 thousand, in which case it wouldn't go as far as we would like it to.
Mr. Chairman, it sounds like the plans are already there, perhaps it is due to my lack of understanding, this 300 thousand dollars was for pilot projects, for recreational facilities in the communities.
Later on you have to come up with the figure or budget estimate.
How do you know what it will cost and what it will be used for.
Hon. Jack Anawak (interpretation): We don't know how much it will cost but if a community wants to make a contribution for example, Kugluktuk, if I could use it for an example, the community is trying to get artificial ice and the Department of Education and Diavik Mines are possible other sources of funding.
The hamlet council has been given some funding from the mining company and perhaps will use a part of the money from there and use part of the money from the Department of Education according to how much it cost.
We were told, I know that I told the Minister for DIAND that if we could get more money from DIAND that this 300 thousand dollars could be distributed more evenly to the communities.
But if DIAND did not have other sources of funds we would have to use the large majority of this funding for Kugluktuk, because we don't know how much it would cost.
But it would be better to have a contribution from other sources.
I will use an example.
Of the capital projects given funding and the money set aside, if a project is incomplete they roll over the funding and some other projects don’t even have any funding.
Perhaps they don't know whether they are going to build it or not.
The reason I am asking this question, is because there is a plan here, and after a year it seems like there is no reasoning where it is going to be spent.
How can we find out that this figure, this amount of dollars is going to be used for that.
How do we know that.
I will use another example.
If Kugluktuk wanted to initiate another project such as artificial ice in their arena, if it cost 400 thousand dollars, this is just an example.
If Diavik Mines contributed funding, for example, 100 thousand dollars, or the Department of Education could contribute 100 thousand dollars, DIAND 100 thousand dollars, then we as the Nunavut Government would help them with 100 thousand dollars through a contribution.
The reason why it is hard to understand is that some communities have already requested this federal funding.
They have asked for contributions but they don't know exactly how much it is going to cost.
This is for future projects, for example if a community requests we would like to assist with funding, but we would also look for other sources of funding besides this.
This is to initiate the projects, like the examples that I mentioned.
I will use Igloolik as an example.
We were in Igloolik previously and we saw the community hall was too small.
If we were to work on this community hall, we would give them funding to do the first preparation.
I know that I am getting off the subject a little bit.
If we are going to be doing the design, I would say that yes, we do the design in this fiscal year and next fiscal year the funding would be used for actual construction.
So that's how it would work.
But it is not just for planning.
I know that you tried to clarify this by using communities as examples, so please be careful using those examples so as not to confuse the members.
Yes, I understand this clearly myself.
I'm not too sure about this and that's why I'm asking my question.
Here, under estimates, 300 thousand dollars, that's for future years, 1.2 million dollars and the total capital, 1.5.
That's why I'm trying to get further explanations.
I don't know what it's going to be used for, but this funding 1.2 million dollars for future years costs, it's already there in the books.
That's why I'm asking this question.
How can we find out that it will actually cost that amount of money.
Although there are no applications coming in from the communities, how will we know.
That's my question, and I do have many more questions.
Hon. Jack Anawak (interpretation): This is a 5-year plan.
For example, we would use 300 thousand dollars annually because all the communities, for example, as Kugluktuk I'm sure, would like to initiate their own kinds of projects but we can't do all those projects all at the same time in one fiscal year.
So because we know that, we can't keep up with the communities’ needs.
And we know that we can't keep up with them but as the Nunavut Government if we try to utilize just the Nunavut Government budget we can't keep up with all the needs and the hamlets and the private businesses will have to support us financially.
That way we can keep up with the need.
Hamlet Councils, private businesses, the federal government, with assistance of these three parties we would like to keep up with the needs.
But for those that the Nunavut Government funds directly, like the Igloolik community hall, it wouldn't come through this line item.
But it would be under other capital items.
But this one is for the communities if they wanted to initiate any projects, like recreational projects whether it be a small swimming pool or if they wanted to come up with an artificial ice arena.
The arena itself would not come through this line item, but if they did have the existing arena, it would be in a different item but the actual request to enhance it would go through this line item.
So if the hamlet council's request is to initiate any kind of project with the assistance of the Nunavut Government, or by the private businesses or by the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, that could happen.
Please keep in mind that there's also Qikiqtarjuaq.
Mr. Irqittuq, I'll give you one more opportunity to ask a question under this item.
The first time that we were reviewing this the minister also stated that the communities can make proposals only if they can get outside sources of funds from private companies or mining companies and so on.
Since they already lined up some funds from outside sources, like the mining companies, and now that they've also accessed some funds from the federal government, does that mean that they can now access these dollars from the GN. Thank you
Chairperson (interpretation): For the members, we are looking at total headquarters region, totalling 300 thousand dollars.
Let's stick to the numbers at hand.
Hon. Jack Anawak (interpretation): The example that I used earlier was Kugluktuk, they've already stated that they have funding available from the mine, from Diavik Mines and I think that they have additional sources of funding from the Department of Education and we can give them a portion of these dollars.
We are also going to be talking to the federal government, for example, if we ask for additional dollars, we can make 300 thousand dollars go a bit further and use it for more projects.
We are not saying that the community, if they cannot bring out their own dollars we're not going to help them, that's not what we're saying.
But what we are saying here is that if they can access outside sources of funds, this 300 thousand dollars would go a lot further.
I have a question regarding the 300 thousand dollars, and if I go out of line, please let me know.
There are the arenas, which are utilized in the winter and closed over the summer. Can we make, can the communities make a proposal so that they can build a swimming pool that can be utilized in the summer.
Using the arena, making it into a multi-purpose complex, is it possible to access some of these funds for those types of projects.
It's possible to build temporary swimming pools, but usually the communities keep them closed because they don't have the money for operating them.
I don't think that we can go anywhere near making a swimming pool with this 300 thousand dollars but we can pay for opening up an existing temporary swimming pool.
I think some of the communities have those convertible swimming pools but they can't use it in the summer because they don't have any funds.
So they can access some of this if they make a proposal.
If they can make a proposal and access these funds and if the communities put up their own dollars I'm sure that it would help.
So where can they send those proposals to if they wanted to access some of these dollars.
Where could they send their proposals.
You can direct your proposals to our headquarters because it's not divided up.
The 300 thousand dollars is not divided up into regions so it's better you send your proposals to Community Government and Transportation headquarters.
I have one further question for the minister.
If we were to access some of these dollars for temporary swimming pools or for arenas, can we do it prior to the projects being started.
Hon. Jack Anawak (interpretation): I am sorry I don't understand your question.
Mr. Alakannuark please rephrase your question.
Mr. Alakannuark (interpretation): I apologize my voice is hoarse.
If one of the communities was to make a proposal, for example for a temporary swimming pool, would there have to be a study done prior to the project being approved.
Hon. Jack Anawak (interpretation): Well the way our department sees it, is that we would be looking at it over a five-year period.
We think that a lot of the communities are going to be making proposals to access these funds.
There doesn't necessarily have to be a major study done to get these projects going.
For example, we could see how to make it more cost efficient, and if the communities can access outside sources of funds, other than from the Nunavut Government.
If there is a temporary swimming pool already there, that could be opened and up and running we may approve the project without necessarily doing a study.
But the communities would also have to realize that, of course there is water in the summer, the swimming pools do have to be filled with water.
The water has chlorine and additives in it and you have to realize that there are maintenance costs to opening a swimming pool.
There is a permanent swimming pool here in Iqaluit.
For a temporary swimming pool there might have to be a study done so that the life span of the arena doesn't get shortened by the corrosion that is caused by the water and its additives.
We are talking about the total headquarters region, 300 thousand dollars, recreation facilities projects.
Please keep your questions on this issue.
I will direct my question to that item.
Recreational facilities projects, the Inuktitut isn't the same as the English.
I will just use my community of Resolute Bay as an example, where they have been trying to get an arena.
They have made repeated requests to the government to get dollars to build an arena.
So what they are looking at is to build an open arena.
Can we use these dollars to build an outdoor arena.
If they could do so, could it also mean that within that two years, if they were ever to request a permanent arena, would they get turned down because they have an outdoor arena already built.
We know that, well we are building two or three arenas and we know that Resolute Bay and Grise Fiord don't have any arenas.
If they should want to do that and we can help them from part of this money and if they want to build a temporary outdoor arena I don’t see any problem if they should wish to build a permanent arena sometime in the future.
I wouldn't see it as a problem or an obstacle somewhere along the way if they should wish to build an outdoor one and then build a permanent one.
As long as I'm here I would not say that we gave you money to build to an outdoor arena and now you can’t get a permanent arena.
The 300 thousand dollars under total headquarters region.
Has that, has some of these monies been accessed by the communities or can we make proposals starting in the new fiscal year, April 1, 2001.
Hon. Jack Anawak (Interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
We can't do anything without it getting approval first but you can start making proposals starting April 1, 2001.
For example, if you want to, if your community of Resolute Bay wants to make a proposal we would look forward to receiving it.
You can send in your proposals prior to April 1, but we can only give out the money after April 1.
I was going to ask two questions but I have a third one.
Very briefly.
It's more of a comment than a question.
Mr. Chairman, this is something that I've heard about.
It's trying to get the communities to do some fundraising and be less reliant on the government.
The communities, once they take the initiative, especially the Inuit and the elders, I think that's very well understood by the people out there, because they feel that the Inuit, that the communities should be become more self-sufficient and less reliant on the government.
I think all of us are going to be fighting for this 300 thousand dollars.
For your information members I give each member ten minutes and then I'll let you know when your time is up.
I also mentioned that this 300 thousand dollars is not going to go very far because it's a very small amount.
What we would like to see for the years, for many, many years the people out there have been telling us that they want this, they need this and so on.
But we were never told about some innovative ways where the communities would take the initiative and the government would put in a portion.
Like the member stated, it's something that we are eager to hear, we'd like to see the communities take the initiative and they might not necessarily be approved with their proposals the first time around.
But we'll keep in mind that particular community is taking the initiative and we also know that some of the hamlet councils make a surplus at the end of the year and usually the surplus dollars are tied up because of the rules and regulations or the policies that we have to follow through as a department.
For example with the water revenue if they made a surplus it would then be tied up for that particular service.
If the hamlets make a surplus our department would like to help them out if they would like to use that surplus at their discretion for their community use.
There are a lot of rules that we have to go through.
Mr. Chairman, the minister indicated that the communities could apply for this funding.
I am just wondering if there is a deadline on when the communities can apply for this 300 thousand in this next fiscal year that we are looking at.
Hon. Jack Anawak: I don't recall saying that the communities could apply.
What I said was that there are some proposals that the communities have come forward with to do some projects, which we would look at as long as they understand that we would not be prepared to fund a project in its entirety.
What we would like is some proposals with third party funding.
Such as private development corporations, private enterprises, mining companies and if they can get more funding from outside sources, and we could help them out with part of this then all the better.
All I am saying is that if the communities are in a good financial situation and they can afford to spend some of their own money, and are putting a proposal forward, then we would be very keen on looking at a proposal knowing that, knowing that a big proposal would probably not fit under this criteria because we only have 300 thousand.
I must have totally misunderstood, I thought the minister was saying that the communities could apply via submitting proposals to headquarters, I believe that was what the minister had indicated for this funding.
Now I would just ask, this funding, this 300 thousand that we are looking at for the 2001-2002 year, based on the two proposals that the minister indicated they received already, is there any left over.
Or is it all going to be used up based on the proposals that they have received already.
Hon. Jack Anawak: Obviously we cannot say if it is all used up if we have not passed the budget, we would only start having a serious look at the proposals that might require some of this funding after the budget has been passed.
However, what I said was, that in a couple of cases, or at least in one case, the proposal put forward has secured third party funding from other sources and there is a possibility that if we are successful after April 1, in getting some funding from Indian Affairs that we may not necessarily require very much for that particular project.
So I don't think, I cannot say that any of this money has been spent yet.
Because we don't know how much third party funding we are going to get based on the proposals that have come forward.
Mr. Chairman, I guess what the minister, the questioning from, he had said earlier that it depends on the level of third party funding.
He has indicated and we all know that 300 thousand dollars doesn't go very far anywhere up here as far as capital.
It would require third party funding.
He said that on a number of occasions, but I also heard him say earlier that if the funding never came through from third parties that they may have to put more into this item.
I am just wondering is the requirement of third party funding going to be a criterion that has to be met prior to projects qualifying under this project or under this whatever it is.
Hon. Jack Anawak: All we're trying to do is ensure that if somebody comes forward with a proposal, I used Kugluktuk as an example, who have already secured some third party funding, that's good.
And what I said was we're also trying to get some more funding from the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development.
Now if we can get funding the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, that lessens the need to use any of the 300 thousand dollars for Kugluktuk.
However, if they have secured third party funding and I'm prepared to go forward with the project, and the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development said no, then obviously we'd have to use a little bit more of the 300 thousand dollars for that particular project.
All I'm trying to say is that third party funding is not necessarily going to be a requirement to get considered, but what I'm saying is that if the hamlet can secure third party funding, then with our support, we could probably stretch this 300 thousand dollars more knowing that this is not going to create any major capital projects but create small ones that we can move forward on.
Again, it's a case of hamlets seeking the initiative if they can financially do so, to do something that may be down the road, but they can hasten the creation of whatever project that may be by securing some third party funding.
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the minister also indicated that they wouldn't really scrutinize any proposals that came forward if it was just a minor thing.
I agree it's not major funding from the government and our capital end of things.
Mr. Chairman, I know from experience, that any enhancements to any facility that turned it into whether it be a year round or a more multi-use facility, also brings with it additional O&M costs.
So I'm just wondering if one of the things the department would look at and ensure that we don't set a community up to be running a deficit or running into financial difficulties, is that they have the financial capabilities to continue to operate and maintain whatever that project is after it's done.
I know, like you say for example, if there's one project needs 300 thousand dollars of this money, and there's third party funding for 1 million dollars, that's going to create something that's going to have an impact on the O&M budget of that municipality.
I think as a government, we have to ensure that hamlet has the capacity to be able to carry that. Like I said, I'm asking the minister, is the department going to ensure that the hamlet, wherever it is, has the capacity to continue to operate and maintain whatever that project is down the road.
You have two more questions left after this.
Hon. Jack Anawak: Obviously, if I can find 1 million dollars from third party funding, then that's very good and we put in 20 thousand.
But we would want to ensure if there is a proposal put forward, any proposal we would look at under the program would not necessarily require a large O&M.
But, obviously we would make sure that if somebody comes forward with a proposal to have a swimming pool program because they already have a portable swimming pool, then obviously we would take a serious look at that.
But if somebody came forward and said we have a million dollars to build a new whatever, we would want to take a very serious look at the O&M that the hamlet would have to undertake to take care of that particular building.
So we would ensure that first of all, the hamlets, if they have to take care of the entire O&M, can do that.
However if it falls under our, under the Department of Community Government and Transportation to provide the O&M, we would want to have a serious talk with the hamlet to ensure that both are not placed under undue financial burden as a result of going forward with this program.
Mr. Chairman, I'm glad to hear that but I think that, and I won't disagree it's important to have the best use of our facilities.
But, I think we have to ensure that our municipalities have the funding to be able to carry out and perform the core duties, the basic needs that they need to provide in the communities.
You know, knowing that the municipal financing review is underway right now as well as it's another good thing that the department's undertaking because, you know, we've heard for years, you know, with the hamlet and the municipalities, have been crying and saying they've been underfunded. So I look forward to that and I hope that, you know, one of the criteria used in this is that it doesn't jeopardize any of their existing operations.
One of the other things that you mentioned, adding a swimming pool, for example, I'll just use as an example because it's one that he mentioned to an arena or to another building and I know that in Rankin Inlet they added the swimming pool onto the arena and we are running into and they are still running into major problems because of the humidity and things like that.
So in places where these types of projects were going to go into conjunction with already existing municipal infrastructure that the government is responsible for, will they be looking at it to ensure that it, that these projects won't have, you know, a detrimental effect on the existing facilities.
You know, maybe not right now but over the long period of time, over any length of time.
Because again, the fact that it may not cost us anything right now but if we do something hasty like anything it could end up costing us more in the long run.
So, I just, but not having, I guess I'm saying is that these things are looked at carefully, you know, by our technical people, by our financial people to ensure that it doesn't have a negative impact on the community or on the existing facilities is what I'm getting at.
And the reason I'm saying that is because the minister had indicated earlier that, you know, they weren't really going to take a look at these proposals and I think, you know, and I think that that's something that the department has to do.
So I just think that a commitment from the minister that they will take these things into consideration.