EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
There should be programs set up for smokers and these monies will be used for treatment programs, support services, and so on, but it also raises the taxes that will be taken by the government. Could the minister indicate to the House if you’re going to be setting up a strategy not only focused on one point?
I am very pleased to hear that there’s information going on out there about the harmfulness of cigarettes, but I don’t see any improvements or additional cessation with increasing the taxes. I would urge the government to set up a strategic program and I would like to ask the minister: is there’s going to be something such as that set up?
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank Mr. Curley for his comments. Mr. Chairman, I’m just reading a couple of reports here.
The recommendation from the chief medical officer of health’s 2009 Tobacco Control Act Annual Report recommendation is “That the Department of Health and Social Services research the feasibility and effectiveness of increasing taxes on cigarettes and tobacco products in Nunavut, and if appropriate make an application to the Department of Finance for an increase.
Similar measures in other jurisdictions have been shown to result in a decrease in smoking rates among [youth].”
The 2010 report talking about smoking, to effectively address this issue, “the forthcoming Nunavut Tobacco Reduction Framework for Action must be approved in conjunction with the associated funding and resources to support its implementation.
Tobacco use in Nunavut is an enormous drain on the healthcare system. More importantly, it is robbing Nunavummiut of years of healthy living.”
As I mentioned earlier, there’s a “Tobacco Has No Place Here,” Nunavut Tobacco Reduction Framework for Action, 2011-2016. I appreciate my colleague for asking this question because, in there, one of the recommendations is to “Monitor and Adjust Taxation.” With the department’s priority actions, “With the Department of Finance as the lead determine appropriate taxation rates on tobacco products that support the tobacco reduction framework for action.
Key Measurable Outcomes: If adjustments are made to tobacco taxation rates, the impact on sales will be measured.”
That’s what the Department of Finance will do.
The Department of Health will work on their areas for action. This is in the framework for action.
“Increase Community Awareness; Target Youth and Schools; Strengthen Cessation Activities; Monitor and Adjust Taxation; Enhance Regulatory Enforcement; Research, Monitor and Evaluate.”
So it is a very comprehensive framework for action to target tobacco in Nunavut.
It would be impossible to say that we could eliminate it, but we’re going to target it, hopefully there will be a lot of young people, kids who will never smoke and if they do smoke, they will quit smoking, and hopefully there will be adults who will show leadership and they will quit smoking.
I know it’s a very personal matter.
I have friends in Cambridge Bay who are trying to quit smoking and they tell me that smoking is very difficult. With the support of this government, I told them that we will do everything we can to help you.
Yes, I completely believe that statement and support these initiatives. Furthermore, I’m expecting that to change as I agree with the program moniker, “Tobacco Has No Place Here.” I really appreciate that type of program, but I believe that we have to attack it from all angles, with different programs.
Here in Nunavut, we have made great strides in addressing the issue of smoking, especially in the home and workplace. When we were children, our houses would be thick with tobacco smoke. I believe that was the practice at the time and it occurred everywhere.
That is no longer the case today.
Many people are aware of the effects of cigarette smoke and of non-smokers’ feelings, so they now go outside to smoke cigarettes. I am thankful and appreciative of their efforts to accommodate us non-smokers.
If we were to concentrate on promotion and have very clear anti-smoking strategies, then it would help, unlike this tobacco tax, which I don’t believe will have any effect on those who smoke in enabling them to quit.
Some of these smokers are also the poorest of our citizens who are addicted and will require assistance to quit. We have to provide some sort of assistance, even perhaps visitation by people who have quit.
If this tax is enacted, it will be borne mostly by these invisible smokers who will continue to smoke until the end of their lives.
Due to this reason, I would like to see more emphasis on the initiatives the minister spoke to.
Although I believe the words, I think we have to take more action on anti-smoking initiatives and to have funds set aside for this purpose, perhaps not just part of the taxes we raise.
We need to dedicate the $20 million towards health and anti-smoking programs and initiatives that is raised by our cigarette smokers via taxes to our Nunavut government. That is a large amount.
I would prefer if our government backed it up by putting all the tax revenues raised towards these anti-smoking programs. The government’s position would become that much more believable if they stated that the $20 million will be set aside for these programs.
I would like to know if the minister can take this into consideration as the initiatives he spoke to seem complicated and may require a lot of funding.
I thank Mr. Curley for the comments.
Mr. Chairman, just to give you an idea of how serious smoking is in Nunavut, I did some calculations the other night based on the 2010-11 numbers.
There are only 31,000 people in Nunavut.
There’s an equivalent of 65 million cigarettes sold and smoked in Nunavut.
Now you do the math. That’s how serious it is.
This is probably the single largest health issue we have in Nunavut.
It’s in our interest as leaders of this government and this territory to help people quit smoking.
I agree with Mr. Curley. We’ve got to come up with programs, we’ve got to educate people, and we’ve got to help them. Once you’re addicted to nicotine, it’s a hard addiction to shake.
And make no mistake, Mr. Chairman, tobacco companies know what they’re doing. They are designing and engineering their cigarettes to addict people and addict people very young.
Age to them means nothing. It’s all about customers. You’re addicting your customers to a lifetime of smoking.
When you’re addicted, eventually you’re going to develop tobacco-related diseases and illnesses that are going to make you suffer a very horrible life or it will take your life.
So that’s how serious this matter is in Nunavut.
I’ve got the health indicator numbers; I don’t need to read them out. In the Nunavut Report on Comparable Health Indicators for 2011, tobacco use in Nunavut among our young people in the population in general is two to three to four times higher than anywhere else in Canada.
We know that health care costs are going through the roof up here, so we have to do something.
It isn’t necessarily about the money. The federal government may claw back some taxes, but we will be saving lives.
Some of the previous questions were on matters I had wanted to raise as questions, but I wish to ask the minister about the statement he made in reference to the percentage that would be set aside for tobacco cessation programs from the proposed tax increase.
He stated that once the additional tax has been implemented, certain anti-smoking and tobacco cessation programs will be funded. What is included in this general statement?
Further, there was a statement about existing and future programs for the years 2011 to 2016, which was just last year, and I would like to know how effective this reduction program has been over the last year. I guess that we don’t know the results at this time.
What new programs will be funded via the expected tobacco taxation dollars?
I thank Ms. Ell for the question. As I mentioned earlier, in the framework for action, there are priority actions. There are target audiences.
As I said, we’re going to increase community awareness and we’re going to target youth, pregnant women and their partners, parents and elders, and groups with higher tobacco use; target youth and schools and again, there are youth, teachers, and recreation coordinators; strengthen cessation activities and we will work with health care providers, community health committees; monitor and adjust taxation and we will work with the groups with higher tobacco use; regulatory enforcement; research, monitor and evaluate.
This is what the funds would be used for, specific programs.
It’s early, but we have to see if we get approval for this first before we can go too much further.
I met with the young folks who work in the Department of Health. There is a very dedicated core group of individuals, very dedicated and passionate to help young people to quit smoking or not to start.
One of the tricks with encouraging young people not to smoke is to make it uncool to smoke.
If you think it’s cool to smoke, then you’re probably going to smoke. There is peer pressure. There are young people who are working hard to make it uncool.
I saw for myself when I went to the opening event at the Inuksuk High School. I said there were 300 or 400 people there, there was a video, a very well done video, and a number of elders spoke on the video, older people.
There was one young guy at the end and I don’t know his name, but he is in the video and it struck me. If I was the Minister of Finance or the Minister of Health, that’s the young guy I would take with me to talk to the big tobacco companies because he pretty much put it as bluntly as anybody that they are killing our people. I am paraphrasing.
We will work on programs and targeting specific audiences. I said 60 to70 percent of people in Nunavut smoke.
So there are going to be different programs for different people, but we absolutely have to do something.
I didn’t plan on asking a lot of questions, but the number he quoted with respect to smoking was quite high, as the minister stated 67 percent of our population in Nunavut smokes.
We know many people do try and quit smoking.
The programs that he mentioned in his response didn’t include any details on exactly how he would work with the cigarette manufacturers to look at ways to warn of the dangers.
Can he elaborate on exactly what he will do in that respect?
The manufactures put addictive substances and the addictive substance or ingredient is what makes it so hard to quit smoking. Many people truly want to quit smoking, but they’re so addicted that they cannot.
I would prefer that the minister respond to that query first before I ask another question I have in mind.
Mr. Chairman, I’m just trying to remember dates here. On November 1, 2010, I believe, this House passed legislation called Tobacco Damages and Health Care Costs Recovery Act.
That legislation allows this government to litigate with Big Tobacco for the damages their products have inflicted on smokers.
Now, every province and territory, I believe, with the exception of one jurisdiction, they’re working on it now, but just about every province and territory has similar legislation in place to sue Big Tobacco.
I don’t have the exact numbers. There are four or five provinces right now that have filed litigation against Big Tobacco and for significant amounts of money. I think Ontario has filed a suit for $50 billion.
We’re not alone here in this battle. It’s recognized across Canada that it’s a killer and it is killing innocent people.
People are innocent in a sense that they smoke for pleasure, but they don’t realize that they’re smoking a product that has been engineered to addict them to a lifetime of smoking.
That’s just not right.
I know we passed the legislation and we went to a request for proposals. My colleague from the Department of Justice is working on that right now in terms of selecting a law firm and retaining a law firm to represent us.
So when you talk about dialogue with Big Tobacco, our dialogue will be in the court.
Thank you, Minister Peterson, for your response.
Another matter the minister spoke about in his address was a program for youth specifically to prevent them from smoking in the first place and to stop them from taking that first puff of cigarettes. This program is meant to teach young children in the schools about the dangers of tobacco.
When you see people throwing butts all over the place, particularly in front of the NorthMart, outside the doors of bars, restaurants, residential units, many children or those not in schools regularly pass these places and they can easily grab the cigarette butts.
There are occasionally cigarette bins and these are legally required for commercial facilities, but many of them are unused and ignored due to vandalism and wear and tear.
In the future, this is another area that requires improvement, to have proper cigarette butt bins so that people don’t throw their leftover cigarettes outside of establishments.
As we all know, many children are quite observant and they practise what they see the adults doing, especially smoking.
Children are quick to emulate the adults.
I would like to know what the minister’s thoughts are on this issue and whether he can respond to this question, Mr. Chairman.
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank Ms Ell for the comment.
Yes, older people should show more responsibility and be good role models. If they are addicted, try to quit, but at the very least, don’t butt out and just toss your butt in the street for young children to pick up.
Try not to smoke around young people.
We all look up to our parents and elders for leadership and guidance.
I truly believe that most people who are addicted to smoking would like to quit, but when they’re addicted, it’s very difficult.
I hope that the older people out there who smoke will be encouraged to reduce their smoking or quit altogether so they’re not out there smoking outside their houses or stores or public buildings and butting out.
But if they do butt out, dispose of your cigarette in one of those butt-out containers or whatever they call them, the ash cans.
Also, it’s incumbent upon owners of buildings to encourage people not to butt out outside of buildings. There are certain distances away from buildings that you can’t smoke.
I’m hopeful that people will start to show leadership in their own lives as well. Don’t smoke around children and if you see children smoking, encourage them not to smoke and take the cigarettes away from them.
Don’t leave cigarette packages in areas where kids can get cigarettes. For goodness sake, the people who are selling cigarettes to young children, that’s just deplorable.
There are people out there doing that.
Well, with respect to cigarette smoking in Nunavut, many people are pathetic in their addiction to smoking and you feel for them. Many people are indeed trying to quit smoking and many have asked for programs to try to quit.
However, for some people, it is apparently impossible to quit smoking and other people don’t even bother trying to quit smoking at all.
Many of us would love to have our children be free from smoking and to never start at all.
Be that as it is, this proposal to increase the tobacco tax doesn’t have any details related to assistance programs and the minister’s inability to provide details on the exact amounts to be set aside for these services to provide this assistance is not enough. I wonder if an amount can be provided in the future as to how much of the taxes raised are set aside for these assistance programs. This is of particular interest to some of us as we want to see more funds set aside specifically for smoke cessation programs and to have it funded via this taxation.
It wouldn’t be very good to hear that any tax revenue generated from the sin tax is used for purposes other than health.
Those are all my comments for the time being. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank Ms. Ell for the comments.
I commit to Ms. Ell that these incremental taxes will be used for the purposes intended and that’s to support the “Tobacco Has No Place Here” framework for action.
I have one more name on my list. Mr. Oshutapik, if you have any comments.
I, too, have general comments on the proposed Bill 35 based on the tax revenue generated from the tobacco tax.
In my opinion, we have to take very careful consideration of this issue as many of our dearest constituents in our communities are being literally destroyed by tobacco products and they require assistance.
Although they require our support and assistance, it seems we are also using this addiction to incur tax revenue from them as well or at least the government taxes them for that.
The tobacco cessation program funding from the tobacco tax revenue that the government collects, according to past statements, states that half of the revenue from the taxes is for these programs.
Can these programs use the truth when trying to get people to quit smoking?
We all know that individual communities across Canada have other more addictive substances and many places have alcohol or drug treatment facilities to treat their addicted citizens.
If we look at the average amount of tax revenue that will be collected per year and if there was a plan down the road to establish a facility here in Nunavut, then it could state a policy that the government should set funds aside for that purpose.
Pictures, posters, and brochures that are sent out to the public urging people to quit smoking are a good idea, but no one will ever quit their personal addiction by just using written paper.
There are facilities that I spoke to that provide assistance.
So if we can plan it properly, then we can also have a treatment centre for addictions. We hear from our colleagues when they speak about their constituents who want to quit their addictions but who have no place to turn to.
Lots of people require more than just written materials and slogans, such as “Tobacco Has No Place Here,” to be able to quit smoking cigarettes.
Some of the funds that we are continually debating, which the government expects to fall into its coffers from this tax, and that have been collected in the past are set aside for cessation and treatment programs to benefit people. Why not dedicate the entire amount collected towards an initiative to construct a treatment facility here in Nunavut?
That is my idea and I would want this considered by the department. I and many of my constituents would be extremely happy to hear that.
Nunavummiut would be much happier to hear that the tax revenue collected from them is used to provide services or a facility that can assist them and their fellow residents to combat their addictions. We know that there are facilities if you really want to get treatment because we have seen shows about addicts abusing substances ranging from crack, heroin, and methamphetamines all getting treatment in a proper facility.
Once they are in a proper facility, not immediately but eventually, they are able to quit their addictions to their drugs.
If indeed “Tobacco Has No Place Here” in Nunavut, then we should be focused on providing a treatment centre for addictions from the taxes we pay, with proper attendants, counsellors, medical staff, and let us commit to making one.
This is just a comment, Mr. Chairman, and it was not a question.
There was no question. Minister Peterson, if you want to respond or make a comment, please feel free to do so.
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have no comment.
We can now go to the clause-by-clause review.
Do you have a copy of Bill 35?
(interpretation ends) Clause 1. (interpretation) Do you agree?
Chairman (interpretation): Do you agree to Bill 35 as a whole?
I did not hear. Do you agree to Bill 35 as a whole?
Chairman (interpretation): Pursuant to Rule 62(2), do you agree that Bill 35 can immediately be placed on the orders of the day for third reading?
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, my colleagues. Thank you, Mr. Minister. If you have any closing remarks, you have the floor.
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank yourself and the members of the Committee of the Whole for asking a lot of good questions. We had excellent discussion and conversation.
I hope I was able to answer some of your concerns.
We’re very committed to this endeavour to reduce smoking in Nunavut. I think we have made a tremendous decision today.
I would like to thank the health people who have worked on this tobacco reduction and cessation strategy. In particular, I would like to thank the young folks over there and some of the older folks too, I’m sure they’re watching, Alana Kronstal and her team, for the hard work they’re doing and working with our young people and other adults in Nunavut to quit smoking and not start smoking. I’m sure they’re going to be very excited to get going on this in the New Year.
I would like to thank my officials at the Department of Finance and also my colleagues at the Department of Justice for working on this Bill 35. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Peterson and your staff. This bill has been considered and can immediately be placed on the orders of the day for third reading.
Colleagues, we will move on to Bill 24, but before we move on to the bill, we will take a 10-minute break.
>>Committee recessed at 16:28 and resumed at 16:41
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you for coming back. We will continue on with the Committee of the Whole.
We have concluded the review of Bill 35.
Bill 24 – Appropriation (Operations & Maintenance) Act, 2012-2013 – Education – Consideration in Committee
We were dealing with Bill 24 and the Department of Education with Madam Minister Aariak. We will continue with her department.
Do we agree to bring in the witnesses?
Minister Aariak, Minister of Education, is at the witness table with her staff.
Hon. Eva Aariak (interpretation): Good evening. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
To my left is Ms. Okpik and to my right is Ms. Fanjoy.
Please feel welcome, Deputy Minister Okpik and Ms. Fanjoy.
We were on page G-7 yesterday. K-12 School Operations. Mr. Curley, you had a comment on this page.
Yesterday, some of my comments which included questions related to the graduation rates that are hovering around 40 percent for our high schools annually.
The majority, about 60 percent, of our youth are not completing their secondary education.
I was commenting and asking whether or not we have any ideas or reasons why these youth are not completing their final years.
We have some ideas about certain segments, such as males who prefer to be outside hunting versus attending their classes, especially the later teenage years, when males tend to no longer feel the need to attend school.
That is entirely understandable when food is required at the family table. Inuit prefer to eat the country foods that they grew up on, but this also results in their having problems later on, particularly when they are not entirely literate.
If we knew that they were illiterate, then they will not be able to complete their education. Even without expert assessment, this can be determined.
In most cases, if a person has only a grade 3 or 4 literacy level while they are already in high school, they cannot complete their required courses. So what happens? Are we going to abandon this generation of students?
Are we going to somehow create jobs for them?
How are we serving the people who have failed or abandoned their education?
Will we always just hope for the best without any kind of strategy to provide more assistance to this group of people who are literally stuck?
I also thank our colleague for asking that question.
I believe that all of us here as well as most Nunavummiut consider this matter very important, especially with respect to large number of students who don’t complete their secondary education here in Nunavut.
Quite a while back, there was a study looking at the reasons for students dropping out, but it is now dated and probably no longer relevant.
At this current time, one of the ideas we have for another student dropout survey is to augment it with a strategy focused on the reasons outlined in the survey so that we can better plan our actions through this more comprehensive study on why people quit.