EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Mr. Chairman, this one in effect a lawyer that's going to be working in the Department of Justice that's dedicated for Sustainable Development work.
I don’t know if that clarifies it, not based on what they seem to work with the projected the workload with the Department of Sustainable Development agreement.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Minister Ng. Minister Tootoo.
If I have for someone the lawyer working for the government in one department, why do we have to get money from the other department for him to do the work that he's supposed to be doing as a lawyer for the government, I don't understand why they’re doing that.
I would think that the Department of Justice staff has x number, if you look at their org chart they've got PY's on there. I'm sure that some of those PY's are lawyers and they are included in there.
I'm wondering if we're seeing extra on there, that is someone that is on the org chart being hired by Justice to do work for DSD or is it someone that is in an existing position of a lawyer working already and its just Sustainable Development just paying for those services.
Mr. Chairman, I don’t know the full mechanics of who this individual is.
I think the point here is though, that the Department of Sustainable Development feels there's enough need, based on their workload and if you look for example the new Wildlife Act that they are trying to put in place is an example of a high priority complex issue.
They have enough workload to support a full time legal position, at least in the short term. So they are funding that position so that their priority can be recognised based on the volume that they have in the department and the needs that they have in trying to meet some of the expectations that they have, that's why there's a transfer taking place.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you minister Ng. Mr. Tootoo.
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and so it is someone is being hired for a short term by Justice to do work specifically for Department of Sustainable Development, it's not someone that's exist in there, in their org chart already out there.
Is that what the minister saying.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Minister Tootoo.
Mr. Chairman, I don’t have an answer that question unfortunately.
I can commit to finding out on that but it is very for a short term, 2 to 3 years depending on that's what the Department Sustainable Development feels, gives them an opportunity to meet their needs, or catch up or things that their trying to do.
And at that time at the end of that period, obviously between the Department of Justice and Department of Sustainable Development, they'll re-evaluate what if any continued need for that specialized, dedicated individual.
For whoever he or she may be.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you. Minister Ng. Anything else Mr. Tootoo.
For the record I thought it would be nice if he could find out and see if it is someone within the department or someone outside that is being hired on top of their org chart already.
That is just a comment and he indicated that he would be willing to do so.
Total Lawyer Support Services, 137 thousand dollars. Agreed.
Some Members: Agreed.  Chairperson (interpretation): Total Justice, 130 thousand dollars.
Justice. Operations and Maintenance. Not previously authorized, 167 thousand dollars.
Registrars and Court Services.
Total Community Justice and Corrections, 644 thousand dollars.
Total Department, 1 million 98 thousand dollars.
Directorate, 543 thousand dollars.
Total Technical Services, 292 thousand dollars.
Total Operations. Negative 54 thousand dollars.
Are we going lower.
Chairperson (interpretation): I am looking at the last portion.
For the 27 thousand dollars, lease costs for office space in Ottawa for a position of Director of Nunavut Airports.
Can I get some clarification why this is in Ottawa.
The individual has been reassigned to work in Ottawa due to ongoing negotiations with the federal agencies for funding for airports and transportation projects.
So it is a short term transfer at this time.
Ms. Williams (interpretation): Thank you for your response.
So how long is this short term lease that we are talking 2,4 months. How long are we talking about.
I don't have that information with me.
I could find out from the Department of Community Government & Transportation.
Mr. Chairman, I know the government has offices in Ottawa.
I am wondering if this is a separate office, like an additional office to the one that is already there. Or is it additional space in that existing office.
I don't have that information so I have to put that on the list along with the others in respect to information.
Mr. Chairman, I don't know if this lease has been signed or not.
I think if it is a lease it is in a different place.
Whether we could have looked at if we have an office there already.
I know I've been there myself and not all the offices are being used.
I was wondering if there was any look at utilizing the existing space the government leases down there prior to getting new leases.
If not, if he could commit to make sure they look at that prior to entering into new leases down there.
So that is that.
Total Operations, negative 55 thousand dollars.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): Why is it that we are in the negative.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Thank you. Because Mr. Chairman, there is a larger amount going out of the department in the transfer to the Legislative Assembly that 548 thousand dollars.
Total Operations. Negative 54 thousand.
Department of Public Works and Services.
Informatics, 2 million 531 thousand dollars.
Mr. Chairman, I am sure the minister recalls questionings I had on the IT stuff in the past.
The cost I think it is close to 35 million dollars or over 35 million dollars that we have spent since Nunavut was created on informatics.
I was wondering if this ties into that our informatics set up.
Or is something separate from that.
Mr. Chairman, this specific amount is actually for a wide area network for schools, health centres, libraries and community learning centres.
So it is specific to that infrastructure that we have in our communities.
So it is separate.
Basically a separate issue than what the government's IT system that has been spent on to date.
The base budget for the informatics operations division in Public Works is only specific to satellite service for our core administrative offices.
That is approximately 50 buildings in 11 communities right now where we have regional or decentralized offices. So this is over and above that.
Mr. Chairman, on the 383 thousand dollars for Tele-health project.
Is that on top what the Department of Health had and if so what was the result of the overruns that they need another 380 thousand dollars.
Mr. Chairman, there also 900 thousand dollars that's moving from capital for O&M for the Department of Health in this area, to support the Nunavut telehealth network.
That 383 thousand is over and above that and it's for implementation of the IIU telehealth network across Nunavut, and this is part of their Health Canada contribution in trying to maximize the 3 million 700 thousand dollars over two year period to try and expand the telehealth network in Nunavut.
Mr. Chairman, I'm wondering if that's going to be it, for getting that set up or are we going to be seeing more funding come forward, more supplementary funding requests for additional funding for that or did they anticipate that's going to cover it off.
Mr. Chairman, it will be more than likely operating and maintenance funding that'll be put into the main estimates and through the process that we're going to use and defended by all the departments and all those requests come forward to Financial Management Board, sometime in the early new year.
We're still on Public Works and Services.
Total informatics, 2 million 531 thousand.
Total Department, 3 million 312 thousand.
Directorate, 139 thousand.
Mr. Chairman, again as I asked earlier, there's 185 thousand dollars being transferred from O&M to capital.
I was wondering if the minister probably doesn't have a list of specifically where it came from if he can add that to his list of things to provide to the House after.
As I indicated earlier we'll try to provide, I don’t know what level of detail the member is trying to get to, I mean certainly from the accounting structures you have operations and maintenance in several categories.
I mean we'll try to do the best job we can, I don't know what the expectation is quite frankly, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman, what I'm looking for is I'm going to be asking it every time we see a transfer from O&M to capital, is where we're not spending our money. I think that in reports generated by the Department of Finance for the departments, it shouldn’t be too difficult to pull that information out to see where it comes from.
They have to know how much extra they have in order for them to say take this from there.
If they know how much they're transferring them out, they should have an idea of where it came from, so I don’t imagine that's too difficult to get.
Mr. Chairman, like I said I'll make a commitment to have finance work with all the departments, find all the details of the other O&M that's available and provide it in a summary to Mr. Tootoo and all the members.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Ng. Any thing else.
We are still on Community Government & Transportation, 139 thousand.
Total Community Government, negative 690 thousand.
Again like I said earlier I would like to see exactly where this money was coming from.
That is quite a substantial amount to be coming out of Community Government.
I’m sure I know that a lot of the communities out there are always saying they don’t have enough money.
To see a little over a million dollars be taken out of the operation and maintenance for that division, I’d really like to see where it came from.
On this as well, I would also like to see if the minister has a list of capital short falls that are listed as to where these things are going.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Yes Mr. Chairman, I do have the list of the short falls.
Kimmirut arena, 193 thousand, Grise Fiord water supply, 112 thousand, Cape Dorset water pipeline, 567 thousand, Pangnirtung fire hall, 485 thousand, Kugaaruk access road and bridge, 205 thousand, Clyde River air terminal building, 309 thousand.
For a total of 1,871,000
Thank you.  Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Ng. Mr. Tootoo
Mr. Chairman, I get five projects a little over two hundred thousand per project that has gone over.
From my recollection or understanding usually when projects are committed, capital projects are committed they always leave an amount, either 10 or 15 percent for contingencies in there.
So is the minister saying that the projects have gone over the amount provided by including those contingencies being spent and it needs these additional dollars to pay for them.
Mr. Chairman, in this instance for additional appropriations for the short falls, the contingencies would have already been used up.
So this would be over and above that because the contingencies would have been accounted for, or else already committed for these projects.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Ng. Mr. Tootoo
The minister has a list of the projects, does he have an idea of what caused this, to me if you use up the 10 to 15 percent contingency amount plus on average an extra 200 thousand per project, it’s quite a substantial miss, I would say, in the budget or to plan for the project.
I’m just wondering if he has an idea what caused those overruns.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Mr Chairman, I guess a couple of things. First of all capital estimates when they are made are the best guesses of the department.
Some of them are based on historical expenditures, but one thing that is always taken into account obviously, is the current climate and competitiveness of the environment of the construction industry.
There might be different reasons for the different projects I don’t have any of the specifics at all, for each project as to why they would’ve been over budget.
Certainly that is information I would be willing to go back to the department to find out and to report on as well.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Ng. Total Community Government. Negative 690 thousand dollars.
Turn the page to 21.
Negative 476 thousand.
Mr. Chairman, here is 583 thousand dollars for overruns.
Again from O&M.
I don't have to re-state that I am looking for where the money came from.
Also are those the same projects that the minister mentioned earlier or are these different ones and what are they.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Those are all the same ones that were mentioned before.
It is part of that overall total of 1 million 871 thousand dollars.
Is it just a divisional transfer because total.
I am wondering if this is an additional 583 to add on to the 1.1 million.
That 583 is part of the 1.1 million dollars.
Mr. Chairman, this 583 thousand dollars is part of the 1 million 871 thousand dollars.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Ng. Any further comments.
Total Transportation, negative 476 thousand dollars.
Any questions, Mr. Tootoo.
Mr. Chairman, in the last paragraph in there it talks about transferring 110 thousand from Community Govt. & Transportation O&M to capital for the Bathurst Inlet road and port project engineering feasibility study.
I was wondering if the minister could explain what that project is and where it came from.
There is 920 thousand dollars total.
After there will be another 110 thousand dollars from the Department of Sustainable Development as well and another 350 thousand dollars each from Community Govt. & Transportation and Department of Sustainable Development, in respect of a total of 920 thousand dollars of the Government of Nunavut's contribution for the Bathurst Inlet road and port project engineering feasibility study and environmental study.
Which is basically to see whether or not to see it is economically and environmentally viable as a project. It is to develop some high calibre costing and risk information.
Some assessment in respect to the biophysical and environmental scoping for that project.
It is our contribution, which is 25% of the overall cost of 7 million dollars.
There is 50% being provided by the Government of Canada and in this instance of 3 million dollars.
There is a matter of one and a half million dollars being provided by other private sector components as well.
Mr. Chairman, this a new capital project that popped up out of nowhere I guess.
I recall a few months back when the Federal Government announced that they were going to put in 3 million dollars for the study at that time there was no mention of any, I don’t recall hearing any mention of the Government of Nunavut having to kick funding in there as well.
I guess I just wondered like with the very limited capital we have and this is something that wasn’t even on the five year plan at all, last year or this year.
I just wondered how something can just all of a sudden appear on the books and go ahead and get funded when there are so many other projects that are on the on the five year capital plan that don’t get funding.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Mr. Chairman, First of all, it could have been classified as a contribution versus a capital project with the result that it may lead to some long term capital and obviously some long term benefit to Nunavut overall from the economic perspective. The contribution is to Kitikmeot Inuit Association as the main proponents here in bringing forward the whole concept of this port and road.
So I guess it's a matter of weighing the criteria of the future economic prospects and potential development, potential benefit to all of Nunavut from the generation of economic activity, generation of taxation, generation of developing our resources. That is our ultimate goal in the long term to become more self sustainable, to provide a base from where our government can operate, a base of revenues.
Recognising that in other areas, there's mines that are leaving or closing down unfortunately and we have to find some opportunities to try to recoup those job and development opportunities for the overall benefit of Nunavut.
Mr. Chairman, on the 1.5 million that the minister indicated that the private sector is putting into.
How much, or does he know how much the mining industry that are going to benefit from this road, being that if they weren't there, the road wouldn't go there.
So they're the ones that are pushing for this road because they're the ones that are going to benefit.
It'll have some spin-off benefits no doubt to Nunavut, more specifically to the Kitikmeot which I don't have a problem with that.
Is the mining industry putting in, if they are going to be the main benefactors of such a project, why are they only putting in you know, how much are they putting in and it's an investment for them like.
Are we doing work for them I guess what I'm looking at is I just want to find out how much of a commitment the mining industry itself has put towards it.
M. Ng.
It's my understanding that it's almost all private sector all from mining industry that has their 25% of the contribution and certainly I think as a government it's our job to try and stimulate economic development, no matter what mechanism.
This is one of the ways to try to provide the report to see if economically viable, that funding is to identify the feasibility and get some firmer and higher calibre information as I indicated earlier, costing and risk assessment information that allows a decision to be made, to whether or not to proceed.
If that's the case you know the financing alternatives that may be available for future development.
Mr. Chairman, I was just wondering if the commitment I guess on behalf of the government to look at potential connections that would have an impact all of Nunavut as far as mining and industry go, are you going to share that same path, that same commitment in looking into other links.
As was mentioned earlier in the House today, the road possibly from Manitoba or the power grid or connection to Saskatchewan.
Can we expect to see something like this for one of those.
In fact earlier we approved or we passed the Ikuma II working group, which is going to be identifying the same type of options for exploration in respect to alternative energy sources.  The Manitoba Hydro development is certainly a big portion of that and trying to find some alternative fuel sources for the territory.
Mr. Chairman, I know the Ikuma report looks at alternative energies.
I know in the Kivalliq area around Rankin there are some good looking opportunities for a mine to open up there also some mines near Baker Lake.
This deals specifically with a road to get that stuff out from the mine site to get it to a deep sea port to get it out.
Will there be something, I know the Ikuma report looks at specifically alternative power sources.
Will there be something to look at the feasibility of getting a road link to one of those southern Manitoba or Saskatchewan for the mining industry for them to be access.
I can't say that right now.
This is specific Bathurst road and port project, which as you know the Kivalliq area, is quite a ways off if he is talking about linking that.
I don't think economically that probably is viable.
That is why it is not part of the overall scope right now that is being reviewed.
I guess the second thing is the whole thrust of this Bathurst port and road project is the fact that there is heavy ore.
Ore lead zinc concentrates, which are larger commodities to move versus right now in the Kivalliq are more inclined to precious metals.
Gold in particular where there is not as much volumes involved in the finished product for exportation.
So I guess there are two different scenarios.
Having said that, there is nothing to stop any proponent to forward plans for studies or feasibility studies or more detailed plans for approval that may warrant work that could potentially develop any area of Nunavut for anything right now. Because we are open to all opportunities provided that there are benefits to the constituents, the government and things are handled in an environmentally friendly way.
Going back to the Bathurst Inlet road and port project.
Can the minister indicate how long, I would imagine over 3 million dollars all together, 5 million dollars to do a study.
How long has the government known about it.
To put something together like that is not something that happens just like that.
I know I am on that Standing Committee.
I don't recall seeing that the committee was aware of the possibility of something like this that may be coming down the line.
I am wondering how long has the government known about this proposal looking at trying to do a study over there.
Mr. Chairman, as members know the concept have been thrown about in the media different times.
There was more detailed work putting into preparing a pre-feasibility study.
Some of the proponents lead by the Kitikmeot Inuit Association, and the Kitikmeot Corporation actually came over to Iqaluit.
I believe it was this past spring and certainly for some of the Cabinet Members who gave briefing.
I believe it was offered to all members as well at different times. Whether it was while we were in Cambridge Bay or over here.
I don't recall the exact timing of it. Mr. Chairman.
But it is relatively, as far as their efforts for pursuing some additional resources to further some of their work, it has been relatively in a short time frame of less than a year where it has kind of accelerated.
Mr. Chairman, just a comment.
If the government knows there is a potential of something like this coming it would probably be nice if they knew about it.
We last looked at this stuff in the spring.
If they know that something like this is coming it won't catch people off guard by seeing all of a sudden a new project put into a Supplementary Appropriation.
If the government knows that something like that is coming down the line it would probably be more prudent to advise members of that prior to seeing it all of a sudden in a supplementary.
Mr. Chairman, we try to give as much information as we can when it is readily available.
It came down to, it is my understanding that the federal government was willing to contribute if there was support shown by our government.
The private sector was willing to contribute if there was support shown by our government.
So it was basically in our back yard. So I think that is why a lot of the commitment was made to show that we are supportive and we want to see development happen if we are going to benefit from them in the long run.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Ng. Total Department, negative 1 million 27 thousand dollars.
Page 22. Department of Culture, Language, Elders & Youth.
Directorate, 74 thousand.
Languages and Communications, 177 thousand.
Culture, Language, Elders & Youth, 123 thousand dollars.
Total Department, 374 thousand dollars.
Page 23. Department of Education.
Directorate, 34 thousand dollars.
Policy and Planning, 77 thousand dollars.
Total Corporate Services, 69 thousand dollars.
Income Support, 31 thousand dollars.
Adult Education and Post Secondary Services, negative 2 thousand dollars.
That 75 thousand dollars is to reflect the decrease in surplus funds, recorded from the audit of education.
When will that be complete.
If the member is referring to the audit they are in fact complete from my understanding.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Ng. Ms. Williams.
Total Adult Education.
Post Secondary Services, negative 2 thousand.
I didn't understand the minister's response because I didn't have my earpiece with me.
Can he repeat his response.
I guess we're even now Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman, I said that if the member was referring to audits of the board that they are complete, if that's what she was referring to.
Ms. Williams: Thank you Mr. Chairman for interpreting for me.
Will they be tabled.
Mr. Chairman, I wouldn't necessarily say they'd be tabled but certainly if members want a copy I'm willing to provide it or show them a copy.
Total Adult Education and Post Secondary Services, negative 2 thousand.
Page 25. Department of Education Operations and Maintenance.