EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
We talk about public housing and the shortage of it, we are almost at the point now where we are at elder neglect in regards to houses. We prioritised public housing, so I am hoping when we talk about public housing we are talking about elders in our communities and trying to make their lives easier too in regards to housing.
We all know the dark side when elders are living in houses with extended families and the drain on them financially.
Sometimes it is not very good what happens to them.
I am hoping the department and the Minister responsible, I don't know if it is that department or not, but I think that I speak for a lot of people when I say elders' residences and housing is not up to par in Nunavut.
You can comment on this if you like, but it is just statements again.
Minister Anawak, would you like to make a comment to his statements.
Hon. Jack Anawak: Thank you.
EDAP is the program which pays a percentage of down payment; MDAP is the program that was put forward by the government of the NWT when it was on its' last legs.
Again, these are the kinds of issues that we ran for to try and better serve the residents of Nunavut.
If there is a better way to deliver something like EDAP then I am sure we would take a look at it on how better to serve the people who utilize programs like EDAP.
Again, going back to my comments earlier, in changing policies I am sure we will be looking at policies that make more sense and will be using the assistance of the members as well as the public in terms of coming up with policies for assistance programs like EDAP.
I just want to repeat my comments about MDAP which basically anybody is eligible for, when I think we should have been targeting it more to people who need it more than people who can raise the 15 thousand dollars or whatever.
On the issue of community empowerment, again, we're not going to backtrack on an initiative that the communities like, nor are we going to offload certain parts of government programs that we don't like.
In terms of community empowerment we'll go along with the program, again if we are looking at Kingait and Qamanittuaq where there have been successes, then those are the kinds of areas we want to see.
If a community wants to go into discussions on community empowerment it should be at their speed instead of us pushing it down their throat.
I have a hard time thinking of these Qallunaat sayings, "down their throat."
In terms of community empowerment, we want to continue the program of enabling communities to do more for their communities, without necessarily putting a financial burden on them because of a lack of planning.
It will be at the community's speed.
We will take the issue of elders' houses as advice, but I agree that the communities should have a role in determining elders' facilities. The Government of NWT went into this program without necessarily asking the communities, which communities might want elders houses, and as a result I know of one community where the elders four-plex was not necessarily a welcome thing whereas it is in others.
So I think it is just a matter of contact and staying in touch with the communities needs and wants, to determine whether we should build an elders' facility or not.
Again, knowing that there are certain communities where there are a lot more elders, like Qamanittuaq and Arviat. These are two communities where there are a lot of elders.
Those are the areas where we want to focus since part of the basis for Nunavut is respect for our elders.
I think that this is the kind of thing that we can take a look at once we get into the planning for what we are going to do about the issue of housing.
Before anybody speaks I would like to recognize the QWMB and Mr. Picco's friend, Joanasie Akumalik, Mr. Picco's constituent.
Mr. McLean: This will be my final question Mr. Chairman, Thank you.
Mr. Anawak on elders' residences and commitments and things like that, I know it is late in the game and we are drawing close.
I think I am correct in saying that in the current budget no money has been designated for elders' residences this year?
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Minister.
Hon. Jack Anawak: There has not been any identified at this time.
According to the list that I have, Mr. Alakannuark is next.
Although I forgot what I was going to say, it is more of a comment than a question in regards to housing.
When we are trying to develop a housing program in Nunavut, it is very important.
How can the communities give your department more support in public housing.
I know that the budget is very limited.
You stated that you would consult with the communities, I know that you will do that and you will require the assistance and support of the community housing organizations.
In view of that the Hamlet Councils in the community is the governing body in the community.
In one of my communities the Hamlet Council has been allotted contributions and grants to maintain the roads, and they are given the funding and then the Co-op is then contracted out to clear the roads and they end up maintaining the roads.
For housing maintenance I feel that we could utilize the Co-ops to do that housing maintenance because there are so many homeless people in our communities.
I know that we have to work on this issue, for I don't know how many years.
I just wanted to throw that suggestion out.
I don't think this was a question, I think it was more in line of a suggestion for the future.
Mr. Minister you can respond to it, if you like but I think it was more of a suggestion.
This morning I asked the Minister responsible for Public Works about a docking facility for Pond Inlet.
I didn't realize that the Transportation Department was responsible for that.
So my question is about the docking facility in Pond Inlet which was proposed in 1977, with a year off in between.
It was slated to be built in 1999, this wharf or breakwater.
I don't see it in the budget estimates, did you move this breakwater to the next year?
When you asked me earlier today I didn't think I was going to be answering you for the same question.
This was not included in the GNWT budgets.
They had one slated for the Qikiqtaaluk, Baffin Region, a breakwater, this breakwater was slated for Pond Inlet, but it turned out to be on the B list.
So therefore it is now slated for next year.
They haven't awarded any contracts for this but we feel that for some communities that have been requesting programs such as this, if there were any funds available later in the year, we can look at this but the program you are talking about is on the B list.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): Thank you.
Now I understand his explanation so I have no further questions.
Mr. Chairman, just a couple of points first in regards to some of the comments that were made by the Minister and his staff earlier in regards to some of the technical positions that were staying within the Housing Division.
He indicated that these technical positions would be providing assistance to people in homeownership programs.
Mr. Chairman I know from past experience that has always been an area that the Corporation has stayed away from as those contracts between the actual homeowner and the contractor, the Corporation stayed away from providing technical advice due to a possible liability factor.
I am wondering if the Minister or his staff could explain why there has been such an about face in that.
Also it was mentioned that they didn't want to be stove piping services.
Mr. Chairman, I know that previously local housing organizations had only to deal with the Housing Corporation in every case because the staff housing went through there as well in most cases.
Now under the current system the LHO has to deal with the Department of Community Government, Housing & Transportation, it has to deal with the Department of Public Works, Telecommunications & Technical Services, it has to deal with the Department of Finance.
Within the Department of Community Government, Housing & Transportation it has to deal with two different divisions in there, the community government division, and the housing division.
I am wondering if he could explain how that is not a, to me that seems more of a stove piping of services, if he could explain how that is not I would appreciate it.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you. Mr. Anawak.
Hon. Jack Anawak: I would like to answer part of it.
In terms of providing technical assistance, if there are people who want to become homeowners, and we are assisting them somehow then I would think that we would have no problem assisting them in the areas that they need technical assistance on, if they need the help.
In terms of the other areas, maybe I might get Mike to respond to that as well as the technical positions.
Deputy Minister Mike Ferris, you may proceed.
Mr. Ferris: Mr. Chairman, on the first point, the technical people will provide assistance to anybody that asks related to the potential of new homeownership.
That is in their planning stage when they are looking at different designs, different types of programs.
That request stemmed directly from the District Offices of the Housing Corporation and some of the client groups.
That was the basis of getting the technical positions back to provide that type of program assistance to the client group.
In terms of stove piping, when we talk about stove piping, we are talking about individual departments having all the same or duplicated services.
One of the things in Nunavut that there has been an attempt to break down stove piping, where department A has all technical staff, department B has all technical staff, department C has all the same type of positions, all working to provide service to a client or a specific community.
What we are looking at trying to do is to maximize efficiency, to recognize that if we look at sharing some of that responsibility, and it is critical that we find the mechanism in doing that, that the clients, the people of Nunavut that we serve are getting a high level of service, easily with less red tape.
That's one of the goals of Nunavut, is to make it a user friendly type of government.
So, we're looking at where we can utilize sharing of those types of functions and deliver a good level of service.
So when I talk stove piping, rather that within the department, even if we just look at this department, rather than building three different branches, which you see on the org chart, hopefully by the time the dust settles, those, even though there would still be responsibility for housing, responsibility for transportation, responsibility for community government, there will be a melding of those into one department recognising that we would still have the independent Nunavut Housing Corporation to manage and deal with the contracts and the dollars that come from CMHC.
That's what we're talking about and that's happening as well across departments.
We have had discussions and we are working with public works and local authorities, housing authorities, to try to make access to technical information and access to the departments easy.
At the Deputy Minister's level we have talked a bit about the possibility of having a dedicated team that just deals with the housing type issues, so that they can link up with people in my department and go into a community together and provide a more united service to the community.
Some of it is still in the planning and discussion stages, we have just started to have discussions and so has public works with the LHO's, on public works having a contract with them for the maintenance.
On the break water, usually we get contributions from the year before and I know that it will continue on to this year.
And the main estimates $ 175 thousand dollars but our plan which we agreed to $ 250 thousand that’s the only problem I have, but I don’t have any problems with the B list.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Chairman.
When we go to the Transportation Department, you will have that opportunity to talk about that issue under  7 – 13 can you wait till we get to that item.
You could wait till we get to that item Mr. Iqaqrialu.
At this time we haven’t reach that item yet and you may ask the question to the minister.
If you have any questions in regards to that issue, do you have any other concerns or comments.
No, Thank you.
I just realised looking over some of the other things I know the Minister and the aim of the government in general, had been looking at the stream lining the government making it more efficient.
This one looking in their information provided to standing committee back last month it shows the total of $ 11 and a half million dollars in salaries for the departments.
The 3 regional functions, the 3 regional offices all together equal only 47% of those salaries.
To me looking at it having been involved with the government and always also in the past looking at it from outside no matter where I lived there’s always been a cry of not having the resources for the man power for the staff at the regional level as those are the people that are doing the hands on delivery of the programs and services of the departments.
Mr. Chairman I was wondering if the staff can explain why over half of that salaries for the entire department are in the Headquarters function and rather than the regional function.
Either the Deputy or the Minister can respond to him.
Hon. Jack Anawak: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I cannot really say exactly why it happened this way, but I can say that at the start up of the new government of Nunavut, there is a need to really set up well in the Headquarter in order to ensure that the operation of the government flows through to the Regions.
So I suspect that this point in time the reason we have more people at the Headquarters level is because of the need to set up and maybe that percentage will change later on but we need the people at the Headquarters level at this time for the implementation of the department.
Mr. Chairman is the Minister stating that this is more of one time cost that going to disappear over time or some of these positions that are being staffed at the headquarters level or are they just short term positions or are they going to be positions needed to be there for the long haul and as far as the regional functions go, looking at this budget is for the whole year and that’s including the complete regional function for the department or is it just a partial I guess that’s my next question.
If the headquarter salaries which is just over $ 6 million dollars and the other the 3 regional ones are all two of them under $ 2 million and one just under 3.
Are those going to grow in the future or are those only partially filled does that not encompass the provision of services at the regional level with the entire complement of staff that are already existing in place that have been carried over from the GNWT.
Thank you Mr. Chairman.  Chairperson: Thank you Mr. Tootoo.
Hon. Jack Anawak: Thank you Mr. Chairman.
I would be somewhat premature if I said I know exactly what’s going to happen because I don’t but at the same time I’m just saying that there is a need this time to make sure that the government is up and running.
Now if the Member is concerned that there is too much money at the Headquarters level in Iqaluit I can assure him that many of the headquarters positions are in the regions and therefore funds are spent in the region.
Chairperson: Mr. Tootoo
No that’s not what I’m getting, I guess what I’m getting at is, we talked about the streamlining of government, becoming more effective, more efficient .
That should those resources and I know that they're not just here in Iqaluit and there all over the place but in 5 or 6 different communities, you had your headquarters, but in the past we’ve seen the bureaucracy build upon itself, I think we all want to see more resources dedicated at the regional level, the program delivery level and that’s what you want to see, I’m just wondering , I don’t see that reflected here.
Is there something that, as a result of amalgamation, more of a building a huge bureaucracy than about putting the dollars in the regional level in providing the system to each of our communities at that level.
Chairperson: Thank you Mr. Tootoo.
Hon. Jack Anawak: Well I’m not too worried about the percentages as long as those people whether they 're headquarters or regional are dedicated to serving the interests of the people of Nunavut.
Chairperson: Thank you Mr. Anawak.
I’m concerned about it because I know that we are working with the very limited dollars out there and the more dollars that we can spend out in the communities and at the regional level is what benefits the people, it is not building a bureaucracy that builds upon it self.
Mr. Chairman, I guess another question is he indicated headquarters in a number of different places in the information that was provided to us last month.
It shows Iqaluit having office of the Deputy Minister, community government, policy and planning, finance admin, community development and the emergency services of 35 positions.
Since then I understand the Assistant Deputy Minister for community government is planning on being relocated to Rankin Inlet. I’m just wondering if that has been something that was in Footprints II or why that’s happening and also will the staff that fall underneath that division that are here, will they be following the Assistant Deputy Minister to Rankin Inlet.
Hon. Jack Anawak: (interpretation): Thank you, in respect to the staff who are headquarters staff they are there in the communities and also we're trying to look at ways to save our funds.
We'll keep looking because for Nunavut staff that’ll be one of their prime goals to try and lessen the expenditures and that’s what I thought when the deputy minister alluded to this.
They were not in the Footprints II model when I was Interim Commissioner.
I hired the Deputy Ministers, there were 11 of them and only 3 of them were Inuit, however, the Assistant Deputy Ministers when we implemented those positions out of the 13 there were 12 Inuit Assistants Deputy Ministers, but that was also not in Footprints II. We hired the Assistant Deputy Ministers outside of Footprints II model and because the majority are Inuit they're more aware of Inuit culture and language as the government is evolving.
But in respect to lessening the funding or ensuring that we're not spending our funding. The Assistant Deputy Minister for housing would be moved to Rankin Inlet and it’s right in the middle.
Regarding the assistant deputy ministers, for example, when Glenn McLean asked the question yesterday whether they would be travelling to the communities, our Assistant Deputy Ministers, we have instructed them to make more community visits and if they undertake that, our assistant deputy minister would be based out of Rankin Inlet.
They would travel to Cambridge Bay or Kugluktuk, Repulse Bay, Igloolik or the other communities.
That would lessen the cost of the travel if it were based in Rankin Inlet.
So again we're looking for ways to cut down the costs.
At this time the Nunavut government with the model of decentralization, it’s clear now that with the telephones and the information highway with that kind of technology you can communicate wherever you are and you can have an office wherever you have a connection and again we're looking at lessening the costs when we're looking at those options.
These are some of the things that we will look at to ensure that the Nunavut government is close to the people and we will be looking at ways of lessening costs for the employees because that would mean there will be more money to spend on our people.
Mr. Chairman Mike Ferris would like to make an addition.
Chairperson: (interpretation): Sometimes I forget your name. Mr. Ferris you may proceed.
Mike Ferris: Mr. Chairman, I just wish to assure the member on this question, we're not building a bureaucracy.
There has to be some rework of the salary figures but just so the members are aware there are 98 positions regionally and there are 87 headquarters positions.
The regions are already larger than headquarters combined and the minister indicated a number of headquarter positions outside of Iqaluit and we will be operating very close to those communities.
I think some of the difficulty in the clear identification of the salaries is trying to capture the housing salary component and there’s a tendency to lump those salaries in under headquarters even the district operations.
We will be working with Finance and we started that process just to make sure that the charges we have to capture for housing are clearly identified in one budget area.
I think that’s where you look at the percentage it may not reflect exactly what’s in the field, there are 98 in total regional positions in present time verses 87 in headquarters.
Mr. Chairman, I would just like to confirm what the Deputy Minister was saying is that the headquarters amounts for salaries includes all the housing costs for the entire department.
Is that what he is saying Mr. Chairman?
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Ferris.
Mr. Ferris: Mr. Chairman, I can’t say that it includes all the costs for housing.
It does include some of the salaries for what were the District Offices and that is because we are trying to find a mechanism to load into the budget the ratio of costs for the delivery of the housing program so that we can justify the dollars we receive, the 58 million from CMHC.
I think in that process we have identified a couple of areas where the numbers don’t reflect exactly where the positions are.
That will be sorted out and that will be much clearer once we have had an opportunity to work it through the full process.
Will we be provided with that information at some point in the future?
Because if the information that we have isn’t totally accurate, it would be nice to have the information that is accurate.
Deputy Minister Ferris.
Mr. Ferris: That would be made available through the Minister, but as I say that is where the trick is, is working out the Housing Corporation and keeping those figures as separate for accounting purposes.
I guess that we touched on and mentioned a position here that is a headquarters position that is now being moved to Rankin because it has been deemed cheaper to do so. Mr. Chairman, I know that as a result of Iqaluit being the capital of Nunavut, it was agreed that because of all the headquarters positions that would be coming here, that the regional functions would be moving out to the communities.
Now, I am concerned and we are seeing more headquarters positions, leaving here.
I am just wondering, will there be other functions that are going to be moving into Iqaluit to replace these positions or is it just that one position, or all the rest of the staff that fall underneath that particular Assistant Deputy Minister will be moving.
I would just like to clarify that.
In respect to the question posed by Mr. Tootoo, I believe it’s within 7-4 under the Directorate and I believe that it is listed there.
Perhaps when we reach that page you can repeat your question at that time Mr. Tootoo?
I believe it is on page 7-4.
Actually Mr. Chairman, I believe it is the Assistant Deputy Minister for Community Government.
But as it is, I am not dealing just with that department, it is a departmental headquarters function I am wondering about.
It is not just specifically to that department, it is more of from an overall department that they are moving headquarters positions from out of Iqaluit.
I would like some clarification to that.
I am sorry Minister Anawak.
Hon. Jack Anawak (interpretation): There will be only one position that will be transferred out.
There is the one position, however, we will look into that and especially with the positions being transferred to the communities.
But as the staff transfers to the communities occurs, we will be dealing with that, but in the meantime there is only that one position is moving.
I no longer have anybody on my list for questions.
Now to get into the Main Estimates.
As to the members’ wishes, do you want to go into the details of expenditures.
Starting with 7-4 listed as the Directorate.
Operations & maintenance.
Total operations & maintenance 12 million 255 thousand dollars.
Chairperson (interpretation): Capital items.