EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Mr. Chairman, in fact, the Housing Corporation has in the past.
Since that message has actually helped the communities, I’m not sure why the minister is saying now that they can’t help them.
So there’s an expectation from the community that the Housing Corporation can and will assist them with some basic repairs and maintenance to their houses.
Hon. Patterk Netser: Mr. Chairman, I would like to know what type of activities that the people from Bay Chimo do in terms of the work they do.
I understand the Nunavut Housing Corporation is only obligated to recognize communities within the Government of Nunavut.
I hate to keep debating this with ministers of the government. I have raised this countless times, it seems like, over the years.
They do not recognize themselves as outpost camps but simply because the government conveniently has an Outpost Camp Policy, they were communities that were funded under unincorporated community status.
The Government of the Northwest Territories and the Government of Nunavut provided them with housing and other services, but now, they’re basically cut off.
Those houses that are referred to in that email were provided by the Housing Corporation, so the folks down there would like some help.
They live there and they have their houses. It doesn’t require a whole lot of work, probably less than $100,000 would be satisfactory to upgrade most of the houses there for a couple of years.
Hon. Patterk Netser (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I understand back in the NWT days that the buildings were put in Bay Chimo and the other community. As for further information, maybe Mr. Scott can elaborate on that a bit more.
The member is correct; we have done a bit of work for the residents in Bay Chimo and Bathurst Inlet as well, I believe, in the past.
The mandate of the corporation, I believe it’s in the Act, stipulates our activities as they relate to communities.
Years ago when Bay Chimo had a much larger population, they had a school, they had an airstrip, they had a store down there, the NWT Housing Corporation was involved almost on an annual basis on assisting the residents, and certainly, since division and since the reduction in population down in those communities, the activity of the corporation down there has been limited to assisting on small projects and small work down there.
Currently, in our capital budget, there are no projects identified, particularly in our Modernization and Improvement budget, and that’s largely because we get the wish list for projects prioritized by our local housing organizations; they develop the projects that they want done in their community.
In the communities of Bay Chimo and Bathurst Inlet, there is no local housing organization to put forward their prioritized projects.
I think Mr. Scott is missing the point. They’re not asking for new houses; they’re just looking for some help to fix up the houses there before they deteriorate.
I don’t see most of the people who are still there planning to move anytime soon.
Can you unofficially help them with some funding to fix their houses up?
Unofficially off the record, no.
I appreciate the minister’s candidness. Perhaps if we can assist the minister with this issue, I could ask for a formal motion in the House to provide some additional funding for the folks down there.
The member is completely brave, too, to introduce a motion in the House. What can I say?
I’m very disappointed with this whole debate in the last five minutes because the folks in Bay Chimo and Bathurst Inlet are residents of Nunavut.
Just because they don’t live in an incorporated community and they fall into some grey category that is conveniently an Outpost Camp Policy, it doesn’t eliminate the need for housing for them.
They have an expectation because the housing was provided by the government.
They live and work in Nunavut as well.
I’m disappointed that there’s not more recognition by your department to provide some small amount of monies to help them out down there, so I will talk to my colleagues about a formal motion in the House. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Curley: Thank you. (interpretation) First of all, just for notification, I already welcomed the minister and his officials.
In regard to the housing units requested by the communities, when you actually see the list for housing applicants, it is quite daunting.
I had a chance to review a list during a meeting of the housing association in our community. I noted that there were over 70 young people applying for one-bedroom units and there were over 40 young families applying for two-bedroom units.
As well, for the larger families requesting a three-bedroom unit, there were also over 40 applicants on the list.
In just quickly reviewing them, how and when are we ever going to meet up with the demand for units?
With that said, I would like to pose a question.
I believe that we require outside assistance to meet demands in Nunavut.
The Nunavut Housing Corporation could be assisted if you explored all possible options, such as my colleague, Mr. Keith Peterson, alluded to.
Perhaps we should be partnering up with private contractors and just start building apartments because the P3s can be utilized.
I know we can’t do it at this time, but if we start eventually planning, maybe we will be able to catch up.
I just wanted to make that comment because we know there is a long waiting list for housing, not just in Rankin Inlet but in the other larger centres.
I know you have a lot of responsibilities and the Nunavut Housing Corporation mentioned that they are responsible for staff housing.
Where do you get the funding assistance in order to build staff housing?
The Department of Community and Government Services or the Department of Finance is currently working on the P3 policy.
We get funding for staff housing from this government. (interpretation ends) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The funding doesn’t come from the Housing Trust Fund for staff housing and student residences? Do they have separate funding?
Hon. Patterk Netser (interpretation): To answer my colleague’s question, the $200 million comes from the federal government for the Public Housing Trust Fund.
We get the funding for student residences and government staff housing from that fund. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): When you receive the funding for the Arctic College housing and the government staff housing funds, do you construct those units?
If they say, “Please build these facilities,” do you start the construction on them?
Hon. Patterk Netser (interpretation): Yes, we do construct the units and if there are any renovations to be done, then we fix them up. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
Mr. Curley: Mr. Chairman, I want to go through the procurement policy a bit with the NHC officials and the minister.
I understand that the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s Procurement and Delivery Policy changed about last year.
So can the minister or his officials explain why there was a particular requirement to change the procurement and delivery policy from last year to the current system?
Is he referring to the $200 million trust fund that we received from the federal government?
Could he (interpretation) clarify his question, please?
Chairman (Mr. Barnabas)(interpretation): Thank you, Minister Netser.
Mr. Curley: I think he is asking for clarification. I’m pretty sure the president is quite well aware of what I’m talking about.
There was a change of a major policy procuring all the materials for housing to the current system and I’m trying to get him to explain why the change was necessary.
I’ll let the president elaborate on that more. Mr. Chairman, (interpretation) the units that are constructed were opened to the communities to ensure more local people worked and also for apprenticeship and journeymen positions in the communities.
We have a shortage of journeymen and trades people in the communities and we would like to produce more of them. (interpretation ends) Mr. Chairman, (interpretation) we are trying to get 35 to 40 trades people (interpretation ends) with that Nunavut Housing Trust Fund and I think it’s about 60 percent local hiring with that program, but Mr. Scott can elaborate on that a bit more.
In the past, there have been a couple of traditional ways in which the corporation would procure or arrange to have the housing units constructed and one of them was to supply, ship, and erect where the successful contractor would provide and supply all of the materials and labour, and basically supply, ship, and erect the building.
During the 1990s and the early years of the corporation, there was pressure by previous Legislative Assemblies to unbundle the contracts. So rather than go with supply, ship, and erect, it was suggested that it be broken out into the supply component and labour component.
Originally, when that was done at the request of previous assemblies, the supply component was put out as one large tender for all components of the housing units, so that included everything from heating systems to floor tiles.
When the Housing Trust was announced in 2006, we went out for a very quick tender call.
It was late in the season for almost 100 additional public housing unit packages and the prices on those particular packages came in at what we felt were excessively high.
As a result, we modified the number of the units that we thought we could build from the $200 million from 800 public housing units down to about 725.
As a result of that and an encouragement by the standing committee to look at innovative ways to deliver on the Housing Trust, the $200 million, we looked at further unbundling the supply tender into various components of the complete housing package and separate the packaging and crating, basically the marshalling component, out of the tender process.
In anticipation and as a result of that, we would encourage more suppliers of a particular commodity item to enter in on the bidding process and to reduce some of our costs.
As a result of the material acquisition and the material costs, the 2007 and so far the 2008 material tenders indicate that we have achieved that.
The president, Mr. Chairman, alluded to “innovative ways” that he received from a standing committee. I don’t know which one he’s talking about because I certainly wouldn’t want to term what we experienced in the past shipping construction year as being innovative at all. I don’t believe any of us in the committee would have accepted that, so it will be interesting to find out where it came from.
Mr. Chairman, I have a question for the minister and his officials concerning the recent awarding of NHC’s marshalling contract to Illamar Marshalling. On February 25, the minister told the House that NHC “has entered into a two-year agreement with Illamar Marshalling Incorporated to provide marshalling and distribution services.”
My question for the minister is this: when will he table detailed information in the House concerning the value, terms and conditions of this contract?
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Curley. Minister Netser.
We will table that detailed information at the spring session if it is available at that time. (interpretation ends) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Curley: Thank you. I would like further information with respect to the process that was used. I acknowledge that bids were submitted.
How many actual companies submitted bids for the contract that was awarded to Illamar Marshalling and how many of these companies were Inuit-owned or owned by Nunavut companies?
Hon. Patterk Netser (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) The president has all the scope of the tendering process, so I’m asking the president to respond to that question. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
There were actually four proposals received but one was declared non-responsive. Of the other three, there was one Inuit-owned company that did submit a proposal call for that tender.
Mr. Curley: Thank you. Can the minister and his officials tell this House exactly who the evaluators were of these bid proposals?
I understand it was Bill Gotham, Jason Birthict and the President of the Housing Corporation who were on that evaluation committee.
What provisions, Mr. Chairman, have been written into the contract with respect to Inuit labour content? Understanding the fact that there will be about 70 to 90 jobs in Chesterville, how will these provisions be enforced, if any?
Whatever is in the NNI Policy was adhered to.
The NNI Policy is the responsibility of the contract managed to apply provisions of the Inuit content. So in this case, can the minister actually table the provisions that are applied with respect to Inuit content with the current contract?
We will table that in the spring session.
Mr. Curley: Thank you. With respect to the current marshalling contract, I’m sure there are some provisions for reporting whether or not the arrangement is successful, how will the NHC evaluate the performance of Illamar Marshalling?
We scrutinized the process to make sure there were no discrepancies like last year. David Akoak and Bill Gotham, who are our evaluators, reviewed them to ensure that they were proceeding properly. We can go on record today and state that they were proceeding properly as we found out. (interpretation ends) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Curley: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As of today, what is the status of NHC’s dispute with the Aarruja Development Corporation?
I understand the mediation process will take place here in Iqaluit on March 26 and 27.
We also have some concerns with respect to the location. Has the minister indicated that he wants the contractor in Ontario to succeed? Can the minister explain a bit about how the French and Montreal suppliers will have to comply with this new marshalling requirement?
Even if they are in Montreal, they would have to be shipped first to Chesterville in order to be forwarded to the marine facilities in Montreal. Is that how it’s going to work?
We have no idea of what comes from Montreal in terms of bringing the marshalling into Chesterville and going back out. That’s all.
Mr. Curley: Thank you. Mr. Chairman, according to the president, he indicated that there was a new arrangement and all the suppliers will have to ship all of their products to that location.
So that would likely mean that Quebec and Montreal are no exceptions. Am I correct?
All the material comes from various parts of the country - Manitoba, Montreal, and Ottawa area. They all go to the Chesterville plant for packaging.
Mr. Chairman, we had some reports and also some photographs that we have seen from the Montreal location where all the materials were laying on the ground and it was really quite a messy location where all the suppliers were shipping to Montreal without any really solid crates being put on.
Can the minister indicate to the House exactly what progress has been made to date with all the materials? Have they been airlifted already or a percentage of them?
Hon. Patterk Netser (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) Some of the materials have been airlifted to some of the communities, but I understand the bulk of it is still to come.
Can the minister or the officials tell this committee exactly when they expect to complete this shipping, or will some of them be forwarded to a location via sealift?
Hon. Patterk Netser: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation) I will have Peter Scott respond to that question. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
Mr. Scott: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for turning my light on.
Most of the material will be transshipped into the communities by April 15.
I was expecting to get the final schedule on the deliveries today but I haven’t received it yet. By having them in the communities by early to mid-April, we can ensure that the projects on the ground that need to be finished or the packages that need to be started up can start. These will move forward as planned and as scheduled.
There may be some material that we could wait for. For example, we don’t need mechanical packages on site maybe until May or June and some of the finished material.
But none or very little of the material can actually wait for sealift because with the sealift, the first boats that arrive in our communities are bringing in the next round of housing packages and we have to try to ensure that everything we have in the communities now are built and complete so that when the next round of packages come in, they can start working on them right away.
There were also considerable amount of materials being shipped to the wrong locations throughout Nunavut. Have all these materials been identified and shipped back to the communities where they’re supposed to belong?
Again to Mr. Scott.
We are trying to identify what materials are on the ground in the communities that were delivered to the right communities to ensure that the right materials arrived in each community to complete the construction of the units that are on the ground right now.
It has been a very difficult process to determine and cross-reference considering the volume and the amount of material that’s been involved. Where we haven’t been sure of where the material went to or where it was located, we will be reordering and making sure that that material gets to the community where it needs to be to get these units started and/or finished.
Mr. Chairman, in view of the fact that it is quite confusing and chaotic as a result of the change in procurement of last year, has the minister or his senior officials conducted a proper review of whether or not the management was actually carrying out their responsibilities that they should in order to prevent such a disaster from happening again?
I cannot speak for what happened last year but I can tell you this: we are on top of what is happening today and we want to assure the members that we are everything we can in terms of dealing with the 725 units that the $200 million trust fund was earmarked for.
I have a brief question for the minister concerning the renting of the houses and the rental payments.
In my constituency and those that are renting houses from Housing Corporation in our community, concerns are raised by the people and that includes government staff who have to rent houses through the Housing Corporation, and this is continually brought up.
Can the minister clarify, here I will use an example, the public rental units that are rented, what kind of rental scale is used? What is the maximum rent payable and what is the minimum? What is the maximum rent that is paid to the Housing Corporation?
In regard to the people who pay rent for our units, the scale is based on the household income.
I cannot really identify which is the highest rent since we have to factor in the household income in order to set the monthly rent payable to the corporation for each client. (interpretation ends) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Do I understand then that the person renting the unit who makes a high salary has a rent payable to the corporation which would be extremely high? Is there an absolute limit on the rental scale or is it limitless?
The limit for the rental scale is set at 28 percent of the household income and it cannot go past the 28 percent limit. (interpretation ends) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The units currently under construction are mostly multi-plexes; some are three-plex, four-plex, or five-plex.
In regard to the household and the number of people living in the unit, if the majority were working and making good money, then their rent payable would be quite high and this seems obvious. How can the people renting the unit pay for their other expenses?
I’ll use a three-plex building as an example since the majority of the new units are this size.
What are the rough costs of each building, such as heating fuel, electricity and municipal services?
Does the minister know what the actual costs of maintaining a unit are per month?
Chairman (Mr. Evyagotailak): Thank you, Mr. Mapsalak.
I don’t quite grasp what the member is trying to ask since he is using a three-plex as an example. Are you talking about annual costs of running the unit, or what exactly are you referring to?
Mr. Mapsalak (interpretation): Yes, that is what I was asking. If it is a three-plex and all three units are rented by people who are working and paying all of their rents payable to the corporation.
In this case, the maximum rent allowed, is this also limited by the actual costs of maintaining the unit or is it subject only to the household income even if the costs are equal to or greater than the costs of maintaining the building?
I hope that this is clearer.
In regard to the income that can be used to set the rent, it cannot go over 28 percent of the household income.
In regard to the monthly expenses, if I understood his question correctly, the costs for the utilities and other expenses of maintaining a three-plex; I would have to get back to the member. If we look at a year’s worth of expenses in maintaining a three-plex, we would have get back to the member on what are the actual costs for maintaining the units.
In regard to the individuals who rent units from the Housing Corporation and the people who rent units from the Government of Nunavut: is there a big difference between what is being paid by the tenants for Housing Corporation units or are they about the same?
Hon. Patterk Netser: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation) The government staff housing units are substantially more than the tenants renting from the local housing units.
They also pay for utilities and services, so they pay substantially more. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
In Rankin Inlet, in April 2007, the local Housing Association managers had a meeting with the Nunavut Housing Corporation. I believe they discussed the rental scale and how they could adjust it.
What is the status of the recommendations that were made at that meeting in Rankin Inlet in April 2007?
Hon. Patterk Netser (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In regard to the member’s question, the documents were just delivered to my office and these issues are currently being considered by the Cabinet.
We have them now. (interpretation ends) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Mapsalak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could the minister indicate if there will be an increase in the rental scale this year or is it too early to let us know?
Hon. Patterk Netser: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I understand that there have been no changes to the scale recommended.
So is the minister saying that there will be no change this year in the rental policies that were adopted for I don’t know how many years?
Do I understand that correctly?
Hon. Patterk Netser: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation) Our Premier indicated that there was going to be a freeze on the rental scale during the term of this government. (interpretation ends) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Hon. Patterk Netser: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to make a correction; that was for the government staff housing program.
Mr. Mapsalak (interpretation): I understand it now. What about the houses that are under the Nunavut Housing Corporation? Is there going to be a change in the rental scale in the coming years?
Hon. Patterk Netser (interpretation): As I stated earlier, that information has been given to our office and will have to be considered by the Cabinet first before I can respond to the member’s question. (interpretation ends) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
L-3.
I would like to supplement the question that was brought up by my colleague in order to get a better understanding.
You stated that the information is now in your office and will have to be considered by Cabinet Members.
Do you anticipate seeing any changes in the rental scale for units whether it will be an increase or a decrease?
If the cabinet approves the recommendations, which are you expecting?
Hon. Patterk Netser: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation) I can’t say anything at this time because the Cabinet might approve it or decline it. At this time, I cannot respond to your question and I apologize. (interpretation ends) Thank you.