EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Curley. Minister Tapardjuk.
Hon. Louis Tapardjuk (interpretation): Yes, we could review all the subsidy programs we have as to our possible options, not just for electricity but also for heating fuel and other subsidy programs. We can authorize a review of these subsidies and recommend improvements to the programs to be considered at the Cabinet level, Mr. Chairman.
I would like to thank the minister because we want to see some kind of a formula or a policy since there seems to be no regulatory basis to follow for these subsidies. We would like to know how it is arrived at, but we are also lagging behind the rising costs.
As I stated, there are 26 different electricity rates across Nunavut but using the cheapest rate in our territory is not acceptable and I think that you should consider averages when you are looking at numbers. You might not get it approved but Nunavummiut must have a representative in Cabinet to see if it is inadequate, especially for the homeowners who are having difficulties keeping up with their expenses. Would you also consider looking at averages to set the rate for the whole of Nunavut, if the subsidy were to be reviewed?
I think Minister Picco would like to answer that question.
Hon. Ed. Picco: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to answer and clarify some of the suggestions that have been made in the House by the member. First and foremost, all electrical rates in Nunavut are based on what are called community-based rates and that’s a direct result of the hearings by the NWT Power Corporation in 1996-97.
We have continued those rate processes into Nunavut and what that means is that the actual generation of power in a given community, that’s what the rate is in place.
What the government has done is subsidized the rate for the first 800 and the first 1,000 kilowatt-hours of electricity. We have also subsidized the rate on the basis of the cheapest rate in Nunavut and taken that price down to all communities.
So what that means is that the subsidized territorial residential rate across Nunavut is 19.6 cents per kilowatt-hour. Although it’s a subsidized rate, without that, it could be anywhere between 45 to 72 cents per kilowatt-hour given the community. A good example of that is that in Iqaluit, you’re looking at about 31 cents; in Whale Cove, it would be 79 cents.
So what the government has done is subsidized every rate in Nunavut down to that amount, which is 19.6 cents plus the rider.
At the same time, instead of increasing the oil prices that the member suggested occurred in the last hike, anyone in the House knows the cost that we dealt with. So instead of putting up home heating fuel and gas by the amount that we could have put in there, according to the Petroleum Products Revolving Fund, we have actually subsidized the price of home heating fuel and we also subsidized the price of gas so that the hurt wouldn’t be on the consumer.
But at some point, and the member is correct, how do you balance out the amount of subsidizes that you’re putting in place and at some point, that’s not affordable. So the government has actually taken that into consideration and that amount is across the board for residential consumers.
I think the minister needs to have a more independent assessment of the subsidy proposal and I don’t believe that the minister should receive his advice from a Minister responsible for Energy who would like to pass on the costs to the consumer when we can’t afford it because the rate base is too small for number one.
The rate base... I’m speaking, Mr. Chairman.
Again, the member continues to do this. The member just stated again that the Minister of Energy would like to pass on the full cost to the consumer.
That’s not what I suggested. The Minister of Energy doesn’t pass on anything.
The Minister of Energy works, because of legislation, with the Cabinet. The URRC does the independent review, does a check and balance, brings that information back to the Cabinet, and then the Cabinet, as a collective, decides what those prices are.
The member should not be implying that one person or one minister somehow controls this whole agenda, which is, as he knows, incorrect.
Mr. Speaker, the member should be corrected on what he has stated because he has mislead the House in suggesting that the minister does want to pass on the full cost to the consumer.
Indeed, this minister, and my colleagues I’m sure would back me up, has tried, on many occasions, to put more of a subsidy in place and we have done that. I have just explained that for the fuel, I have just explained it for the gas prices, and we have increased the power subsidy from 800 to 1,000 kilowatts an hour, which wasn’t in place two years ago, Mr. Chairman, but is in place now because, in the past, it was only 600 kilowatt-hours for 12 months of the year; we have actually increased it by 400 kilowatt-hours.
The minister has no Point of Order because he is not an advocate for the consumer; only for the Nunavut Power Corporation.
Chairman: In this particular case, I will need to review the Hansard before I make a ruling.
Mr. Curley: Mr. Chairman, I hope my Inuktitut comments will be reviewed properly.
I have a further question. I know that we heard from the minister whom I indicated is not the advocate for the consumer because we need a Cabinet Member who advocates for consumer interests and so on, that’s why I’m asking the Minister of Finance to consider using an averaging issue.
Even though the Minister responsible for Energy has said that the fuel price subsidy, the energy subsidy, or the electricity subsidy is great stuff, I don’t believe it can even afford to pay one month’s electricity bill in a place like Whale Cove and Rankin Inlet.
We normally use a lot more than 700 kilowatt-hours or even more than 1,000 kilowatts a month. Our average bills in Nunavut are probably 2,000 to 3,000 kilowatt-hours a month per household.
So the electricity subsidy he is so proud of is not adequate and I would like to urge the minister to do a thorough review and a more independent assessment of the subsidy.
Could you do that for Nunavummiut?
I said I would make a ruling tomorrow.
Be cautious of the wording you used.
Hon. Louis Tapardjuk (interpretation): With regards to my response, I stated that we would look at all the subsidy programs that are provided by the government for electricity, fuel, and others.
We will make sure that all the subsidy programs are reviewed by our staff and if there is a change required or if we have to make a directive, we will make sure that this information is given to the Cabinet so that they could make a decision.
For those reasons, I can commit to doing a review of the subsidy programs and submit it for consideration to the Cabinet.
I know this past November, finally, the provisions of the Qulliq Energy Corporation Act providing for, I think what the Minister of Energy termed as a ‘hypothetical fund’ in the past, the Affordable Energy Fund came into force.
The GN’s new Energy Strategy, which was tabled in October of last year, states that this fund “will be managed by the Department of Finance.
Funding will be made available for alternative energy and efficiency projects. In addition, the department will track direct and indirect energy subsidies.”
I’m just wondering why that whole idea or any of that is not mentioned in the department’s business plans.
Probably because I didn’t want to do it, I’m kidding.
I think that at the time that we were producing or preparing our business plan, we weren’t really sure in which direction the Affordable Energy Fund would head, so we didn’t include it in the business plan.
With that said, the simple fact that it’s not in the business plan doesn’t mean that we’re going to not do our share of the work in terms of the Affordable Energy Fund. Obviously, we have a huge part to play in the Affordable Energy Fund and you have mentioned some of the things such as tracking direct and indirect subsidies. So certainly, we will do our fair share of the work in respect of the AEF.
As I stated earlier, it was last October that that was tabled in the House.
Can the Minister of Finance or his officials indicate if that’s when they became aware of the fact that they would be responsible for administering that fund?
As a deputy, I sit on a committee called the Deputy Ministers Energy Committee or Energy Committee of Deputies and unfortunately, because of other commitments or files at the time, I wasn’t participating fully in those discussions.
Although I was aware at some point in time that Finance may be the department that would end up with some of these responsibilities that the member’s alluded to, but I guess the fact that I wasn’t at all at the deputies’ meetings, I actually didn’t become aware of it until some time afterwards.
I bet that came as a nice surprise when you did find out.
The next question then is: since you became aware that you guys are going to be responsible for administering the fund, what are the next steps that you’re looking at for the implementation of the Affordable Energy Fund?
There are a number of things that will happen after this sitting of the Legislative Assembly.
Next Tuesday, there will be another Deputy Ministers Committee of Energy or whatever we call it, so I will be attending that and I think that this will be on the agenda.
With that said, within my own department, I will obviously have to start working with my staff in terms of putting together a work plan to do the work that’s been outlined in the Affordable Energy Fund.
So all I can tell you at this point in time is that we will put together the work plan to do the necessary work.
Total Operations and Maintenance, to be Voted. $30,620,000.
Back to page C-3.
Total Operations and Maintenance, to be Voted. $54,156,000.
Are you agreed that the Department of Finance is concluded?
Minister, do you have any closing comments?
I would also like to thank my officials. There was a question posed yesterday by Keith Peterson in regard to the liquor inspectors and I would like to respond to his question now.
There are six liquor inspectors in Iqaluit and one in Rankin Inlet.
They are paid $30 every time they do an inspection and they do inspections about 25 times per week at the liquor licensed establishments.
There are 17 liquor licenses in Nunavut.
For the 12 liquor inspectors, in 2007 based on liquor law violations, there were fines of $4,000 imposed on the establishments and the Liquor Licensing Board set the amounts for the fines.
I just wanted to respond to Mr. Peterson’s question at this time.
I want to thank all of my colleagues for being very patient with us and I have had to learn this new portfolio and I’m very excited to hold this portfolio.
This is a learning process, and it is really helpful so I’m looking forward to working with the committee and I’m sure that the committee’s concerns are exactly the same concerns that the Department of Finance has, with respect to fiscal accounting. For that reason, I believe that my colleagues and our department have the same vision and that we will be working even harder on that this year.
I would like to thank your staff for helping out. (interpretation) Thank you.
(interpretation ends) I would now like to ask Minister Netser of the Nunavut Housing Corporation to make his opening remarks.
Bill 23 – Appropriation (Operations & Maintenance) Act, 2008-2009 – Consideration in Committee – Nunavut Housing Corporation
Hon. Patterk Netser (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I am very pleased to be able to meet with the Members of the Committee of the Whole to discuss the 2008-09 Main Estimates and Business Plan for the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
Fiscal 2008-09 GN funding to the Housing Corporation will increase by $14,063,000 from the main estimates of 2007-08 but only $3,135,000 above the revised main estimates.
In June of 2007, there was a supplementary appropriation to address the forced growth items identified during the 2007-08 budget process in GN departments and agencies.
The corporation received a base funding amount of $8,959,000. This included an additional $6,694,000 increase in the LHO funding model, $1,470,000 for additional O&M for new public housing and $795,000 to offset the net decrease we received from the Canada Mortgage Housing Corporation funding.
The additional increase for 2008-09 consists of $3,441,000 for O&M costs for new public housing that will be available during this year or the following year, Mr. Chairman, $894,000 to offset the net reduction in CMHC funding and $1.2 million reduction to the funding to the Nunavut Arctic College for the pre-trades program.
The funding to NAC, or Nunavut Arctic College, for 2008-09 is set at $600,000; however, the supplementary appropriation in November 2007 increased the funding from zero to $1.8 million and that was to cover the 2006-07 and 2007-08 fiscal years.
The need for additional public and affordable housing continues to place a burden on the finances of this government and we must seek alternative sources of funding.
Mr. Chairman, I attended my first Provincial/Territorial Housing Ministers’ Meeting in Vancouver on February 6 of this year to discuss our growing housing issues in Nunavut with my P/T counterparts and the requirements for extra funding for both capital and operating costs.
I am pleased to advise that we have been able to arrange a meeting with the federal minister on April 2 and will use that opportunity to continue to press for long-term sustainable funding to address the critical housing needs we have in Nunavut.
I would be pleased to answer any questions you may have regarding the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s 2008-09 Main Estimates and Business Plan.
Do you have witnesses you would like to bring to the witness table?
Hon. Patterk Netser: Yes.
Does the committee agree to bring the witnesses in?
Sergeant-at-Arms, could you please escort the witnesses in.
To my right is Peter Scott and he’s the President of the Nunavut Housing Corporation. To my left is Eric Whitworth and he’s the Finance Comptroller for the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
Patsy Owlijoot just arrived in the Gallery and she is the Vice-President for the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
Chairman: Thank you, Minister. Mr. Scott and Mr. Whitworth, welcome to Committee of the Whole.
Does the Chair of the Standing Committee on Infrastructure have comments?
Mr. Curley: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation) I would like to welcome the minister and his officials. We noted that your opening comments were quite brief, (interpretation ends) short and sweet.
Mr. Chairman, I think the challenges that the Nunavut Housing Corporation faces are quite complex.
I am pleased to provide you with opening comments on behalf of the Standing Committee on Infrastructure, Housing and Economic Development on its review of the 2008-09 Main Estimates and Business Plan of the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
The standing committee notes that the NHC’s proposed 2008-09 operations and maintenance budget of $112,817,000 has increased approximately 43 percent since the 2004-05 fiscal year.
Mr. Chairman, the number of PYs in the corporation has increased from 70 in 2004-05 to 88 in 2008-09.
The Nunavut Housing Corporation’s 2005-06 Annual Report was not tabled in the Legislative Assembly until March 12, 2008.
Its 2006-07 annual report has not yet been tabled.
It is important that the Nunavut Housing Corporation comply with its legal requirements in this area.
Mr. Chairman, the GN’s most recent annual reports on departmental contracting, procurement and leasing activities for 2006-07 were tabled in the Legislative Assembly on November 7, 2007.
These reports have not included information on the procurement, contracting and leasing activities of Crown corporations and agencies.
The standing committee was pleased to receive a commitment from the minister during his recent appearance before the standing committee that the Nunavut Housing Corporation will publicly report its activities in these areas.
Mr. Chairman, concerns have been raised in the House with respect to the significant disruptions that occurred last year in the transportation of public housing construction materials to a number of Nunavut communities.
The standing committee has recommended that the minister provide a comprehensive report to the Legislative Assembly during the upcoming spring sitting on the 2007 Public Housing Construction program.
Members of the standing committee have received concerns from local companies with respect to the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s contracting practices.
While the standing committee recognizes that no single approach will satisfy all parties, some of which may have competing goals, it expects the Nunavut Housing Corporation to communicate with Nunavut companies in a transparent manner.
Mr. Chairman, the standing committee also expects the corporation to make all reasonable efforts to maximize the opportunities for Inuit and locally-owned businesses to submit bids and proposals for major Nunavut Housing Corporation contracts.
Mr. Chairman, last year, the Legislative Assembly approved close to $9 million in supplementary funding to local housing organizations to help them in meeting forced growth needs.
It is essential that the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s business and budget planning process takes this trend into account.
Mr. Chairman, the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s business plan indicates a number of priorities and issues with respect to local housing organizations.
The business plan indicates that, “a workshop was held in Rankin Inlet in April 2007 where the managers of all Local Housing Organizations met with Nunavut Housing Corporation staff to provide input on how to revise the Public Housing Rent Scale.
The findings of this workshop will be analyzed and submitted to Cabinet for approval for implementation in 2008.”
The standing committee urges the minister to table in the Legislative Assembly the report from this workshop at the earliest opportunity and encourages the Cabinet to listen closely to the concerns and views of our local housing organizations.
Mr. Chairman, the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s business plan also indicates that, “the new funding model for the Local Housing Organizations makes them more accountable for the administration and maintenance budgets as well as for the collection of the rents for public housing.
Nunavut Housing Corporation will continue to provide assistance to Local Housing Organizations in the areas of financial management, administration and project management.”
The Nunavut Housing Corporation’s business plan also indicates that it will assist LHOs by “paying directly the non-controllable utility expenses for LHOs and allowing them to dedicate their resources to increased internal financial management on administration, maintenance and collection of rents.”
Mr. Chairman, the issue of public housing rental arrears is a concern for the standing committee.
In 2004, an MLA posed a Written Question in the Legislative Assembly concerning public housing rental arrears and tenant damages.
The government’s response indicated that as of November 2004, approximately $6.6 million was owed in public housing rent arrears to LHOs across the territory.
Mr. Chairman, the NHC’s business plan also indicates that a priority for the coming year is to “look at developing an LHO construction arm where there is no community contracting base and developing an established local workforce for construction.”
The standing committee looks forward to the minister providing ongoing and detailed updates to the Legislative Assembly on the progress of this initiative.
Mr. Chairman, the NHC’s business plan indicates that it has “prepared a One-Year Staff Housing Review and will continue to monitor the Staff Housing Policy in consultation with the Department of Human Resources.”
It also indicates that one of its priorities for 2008-09 is to “prepare and introduce a program to assist GN staff to move from staff housing into homeownership.”
Mr. Chairman, it is important that the review which has been prepared by the NHC be tabled in the Legislative Assembly at the earliest opportunity.
Members have raised numerous concerns regarding the impact of the GN’s Staff Housing Policy on recruitment and retention. Mr. Chairman, members are of the view that further efforts must be made to communicate the benefits of homeownership to GN staff and to encourage and facilitate the move from staff housing to private accommodation.
Members have noted the recent announcement in the Minister of Finance’s 2008 Budget Address concerning the rollback of staff housing rents.
It is important that the GN publicly and formally clarify for its employees whether this is a one-time initiative or a permanent measure.
Mr. Chairman, it is also important that the government objectively evaluate whether or not the GN’s Staff Housing Policy is actually achieving its stated goal of “addressing Nunavut’s ongoing housing shortage by supporting a strong, private sector led housing market in Nunavut.”
Mr. Chairman, the Nunavut Housing Corporation continues to develop a new housing strategy for Nunavut.
Its business plan indicates that it “issued an RFP which closed on September 20, 2007.
A draft strategy is expected in March 2008 and Nunavut Housing Corporation will submit the final strategy to Cabinet for approval in the late spring of 2008 and expects to begin implementation in the fall of 2008.”
Mr. Chairman, the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s business plan also indicates that one of its priorities is to conduct a Housing Needs Study in 2008 to “identify the number of bedrooms and the number of people resident in each housing unit in Nunavut and the condition of each unit. This is intended to provide a clear picture of actual housing needs.”
Mr. Chairman, the Nunavut Housing Corporation will also “undertake to identify the disabled residents of Nunavut through its Housing Needs Study.” The NHC “will use the results of the Housing Needs Study to determine future housing needs and to build a better business case for federal funding.”
The standing committee looks forward to the minister tabling these items in the Legislative Assembly at the earliest opportunity so that all Members of the House will have the opportunity to scrutinize them with care.
Mr. Chairman, that concludes my opening comments on the 2008-09 Main Estimates and Business Plan of the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
Before we proceed, I would like remind members of the following: according to Rule 77(1), you have ten minutes to speak, and according to Rule 77(2), subject to the discretion of the Chair, a member may speak more than once to the matter under discussion but not until every member wishing to speak has spoken.
Now, we will proceed with the page-by-page review of the departmental estimates. Members, there is only one page to approve, page L-3, and all the details on the corporation is an information item that starts on page M-IV-1.
As I am sure most of you listen to the news, you are probably aware of the story in the news regarding the sealift cargo carrying ships that come and deliver cargo to Nunavut. We used to get NSSI in our region, and last year, NTCL was the delivery agent for the Keewatin out of Fort Churchill.
As well, last week, we heard on the news that NEAS will be also going to the Keewatin region to deliver goods and cargo.
Quite a number of housing units allocated for the Keewatin region from last year still need to be transported to the region and its communities and I am only referring to the Kivalliq region here.
With the amount of cargo that requires transportation, have you identified which carrier will be transporting the construction material cargo that is to be landed in our regional communities?
The Nunavut Housing Corporation uses what is approved by the government, so we have to utilize the same ships. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
Can the minister state which of the three identified carriers that will be delivering cargo and materials to the Kivalliq region will be delivering the housing units?
The carriers are all publicly known, and I imagine that there will be a bidding process and contract that these carriers can bid on as it will most likely be an open contract.