EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
What I will say is that what we’re looking at internally is how we can better support the health committees that are at the community level and how can we ensure that they get the proper support in conducting their meeting; in conducting their study; in determining what their priorities are around public health priorities at the community level.
So, internally, we are looking at positioning our organization to be more supportive on an ongoing basis to the health committees to address the issues that are important and defining what priorities are at the community level.
Question 261 – 2(4): Who Purchase Skins – Vacant Wildlife Officer Position (Kattuk)
Mr. Kattuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister of Environment.
I believe it was yesterday that he told me, well, I made him aware that we don’t have a wildlife officer and there are probably lots of people who have sealskins to sell. I wonder where they can go to sell their sealskins.
Hon. Patterk Netser (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the member for asking that question.
This was moved to Economic Development but we do buy sealskins.
Presently, in Sanikiluaq, they don’t have a wildlife officer. Maybe the Minister of Economic Development can respond better, but at this time, we don’t have a wildlife officer in that community.
Mr. Kattuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don’t know what to say, then I’ll direct my question to the Minister of Economic Development.
If you can repeat the question for the minister.
Mr. Kattuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister of Environment discuss this with the Minister of Economic Development before two o’clock today?
He told me yesterday that he would respond yesterday and he did. So I wonder if he can respond to me before two o’clock today.
That is a tough request by the member but I’m willing to commit to working with my colleague on his issues to the community.
Question 262 – 2(4): Cultural Training for Social/Mental Health Workers (Mapsalak)
Mr. Mapsalak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Health and it’s to supplement the question I posed the other day about mental health workers, nurses, and social workers.
I’m representing the whole of Nunavut because for people who have gone to corrections, it’s very difficult to talk to people, especially if they’re raised down south.
For those applying for positions as social and mental health workers, I wonder if the terms of reference could include knowing the Inuit culture.
Hon. Leona Aglukkaq: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To clarify further, I think it’s important to state that the programs like the Mental Health Counselling Certificate Program or the Social Work Program, in going through their Nunavut Arctic College Program outline yesterday in every subject that’s taught under that program, as an example, includes a component on Inuit culture and traditions, and there’s Inuit history and culture.
Under Healthy Living, there are Inuit culture components, disease and disorder, and so on. There’s a whole number of components around the Inuit culture in the training, as well as in the social work.
So having said that, in our screening criteria, or requirements for our social worker positions, I am not sure if there’s a specific line that says, “You must take a course in Inuit culture or history,” in the criteria of selecting individuals to be interviewed for jobs, but I can certainly look into that.
I thank the minister for responding to my question.
If that is not in the criteria, can the minister make sure that it is included in there?
The positions that we have at the community level, with nurses, social worker positions, community health representatives, alcohol and drug counsellors and so on, as much as we can, we try to train Inuit for those types of professions.
Each of those jobs, for example, to be a mental health or social worker, there’s certain requirements that they have to manage under the legislation.
So the Inuit culture is one piece of that but it’s not everything either.
Social workers, or nurses, for instance, to do their jobs, yes, it would be a great benefit to us to have that Inuit knowledge piece but to also diagnose illnesses, it’s important to also have training in different areas.
So for instance, for people that are in the mental health, or require mental health assessments, we need personnel that will be able to assess whether, in fact, what type of mental illness they may have, whether it is FASD or whether it is schizophrenia, or multi-personality, or some type of disorder.
You need skilled, trained people to make those kinds of assessments as well in interviewing your clients and supporting your clients. So I guess what I am trying to say is that, in looking for people to carry out this work, it’s a combination of necessary work and service we need to provide to citizens in Nunavut, which is why the Department of Health has been working really hard to train Inuit in Nunavut to take those jobs so we can combine those two knowledge in delivering that service.
Your second supplementary, Mr. Mapsalak.  Mr. Mapsalak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Perhaps, in some communities, and I’m sure the majority of communities have an elder society where these individuals who are going through hard times, or who have to be helped, or whether they have gone through the court systems, or whether they have personal problems, if they are young people that they go to these elders.
Even though there are social workers, the young people don’t like to go see social workers, especially when they are not Inuit.
So therefore, there is usually an elder’s society in the community.
Can they be recognized as social service workers?
In terms of trying to get support from the people in the communities, I just spoke earlier about the role of Health Committees in addressing some of the work that we’re trying to do at the community level.
We have the committees in place that have elders and so on, that can assist us in that work, and perhaps, address some of the concerns the member is raising in the counselling field.
It’s always up to a person whether they want to approach a certain individual or not, and yes, I know sometimes the comfort issue is a concern.
In terms of trying to provide this service, we do try and work with the community Health Committees in delivering, and the option to any citizen is to go to that group as well at the community level.
Question 263 – 2(4): Health Care Facilities’ Operations & Medical Care (Curley)
I would like to get assistance from the Minister responsible for Health and Social Services, especially with regard to... and I’m sure I’m not the only one.
Sometimes we get confused in the Kivalliq region as to who is responsible for the medical facility and medical health care locally.
For that reason, could the minister elaborate for us, first of all, as to who is responsible and who the boss is for each region, and with regard to health care facilities, as to who the bosses are for those?
For the day-to-day operations for the delivery of Health and Social Services in the Kivalliq region, that would be the Executive Director, Norm Hatlivik, in the Rankin Inlet region that oversees the facilities and in cases where the facilities are operating, he would also be the same person overseeing that.
In capital planning processes, that would be the manager of capital projects along with the deputy minister of the department.
Mr. Curley: Mr. Speaker, that clearly puts the question back to the minister.
There is, obviously, very confusing states because we do not actually see day-to-day accountability properly handled in the region.
When all the responsibility, as well as the accountability and day-to-day operations, are assigned to one individual within the GN bureaucracy, it’s difficult to operate effectively, and that’s the case right now.
We have files that we’re not able to distribute or send to anyone.
Could the minister commit to reviewing the day-to-day operational review processes and accountabilities, and report back to the House at the appropriate time as to whether or not you could improve the operations of the health care facilities and medical care in the region?
I would seek from the member clarification on exactly what he means by saying there is no day-to-day accountability and the GN bureaucracy and files; that could mean anything.
So if you could help me in clarifying what it is that you want us to review, we certainly can do that.  In terms of the day-to-day delivery of programs at the community levels, through the executive director and supervisors, we can evaluate programs as they go on but if there’s a specific concern around a file, I don’t know what files he means, so if he can help me clarify that and then, at least, I can start tackling the concerns that he is expressing.
Your second supplementary, Member for Rankin Inlet North, Mr. Curley.
Clearly, today the minister has had a number of years on this portfolio.
If she was doing her job effectively, I believe she would understand fully where the confusion in the region lies.
I suggested in my preamble that there is a lack of clearly defined responsibilities to who administer facilities, day-to-day health care facilities, that’s buildings and so on, and who is responsible. I’m not just about capital planning, I’m talking about day-to-day issues of those 27 health care facilities, and there are 25 of them in Nunavut.
And then there’s the medical care. We tend to interfere, politically, as MLAs locally when there are problems with our constituents because we don’t know who is responsible for it. For instance, there are no administrators in local health care facilities.
I believe the minister certainly could improve day-to-day operations for who is accountable for administrative problems, as well as the day-to-day issues of medical care of the concerns of the constituents.
Right now, I interfere as an MLA, and so do my colleagues, whenever the constituents come in. So can the minister help us improve responsibilities fully be shared by not just one senior bureaucrat because he is not able to handle all the issues that he faces everyday.
Hon. Leona Aglukkaq: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’ll review the member’s suggestions and get back to him.
I guess, to clarify very quickly, the facilities that we use in the communities, the health centers and the regional facilities, we occupy those buildings but we also have partners that maintain it, such as Community and Government Services and they subcontract for services and so on. I can certainly provide clarification to the member who oversees the day-to-day maintenance of the buildings, building maintainers and so on.
To direct more direct service to people at the regional level, we have an executive director in place that would oversee some of those services and concerns. If that’s not happening I would be happy to review that as suggested by the member and review the Hansard and pull that information and follow it up with my staff.
When I use the word “local health care facilities,” that includes the operations of the medical fields; health care that are operated and carried out by the local nurses. That’s what I mean. I’m not talking about maintenance.
There’s no confusion on who’s maintaining the facilities; that’s not confusing.
Mr. Speaker, what I’m asking is that our constituents tend to believe that the local nurse in charge is responsible for administration. That means when there are problems with the escort policy and there is some concern with the patient not being fully cared for locally; we’re not sure who is responsible.
Where does the buck stop in the first place?
So these are the things that we’re saying, that we’ve been told that the nurse in charge is responsible but I don’t share that view. So I’m asking the minister to clearly outline duties and responsibilities of nurses in the communities and the doctors and who is ultimately responsible for the administrative responsibilities of medical care in the local facilities.
It doesn’t need local maintenance; maintenance of health care is what I’m saying.
And also, regionally, who is responsible?
If we are asked to deal with only the executive director, then, in some cases, politicians will have to interfere, like myself. And that’s not acceptable.
So I’m asking the minister to table a clearly defined duties or responsibilities as to who is responsible ultimately, locally and regionally, and who administers the health care in the regions.
The member raised questions on the building and services.
So at the end of the day, the Department of Health and Social Services provide services to the people in the regions.
If the member wants that information clarified by community, who does what in the health centres and so on, I would be glad to provide that.
Tabled Document 126 – 2(4): Letter to GN Minister of Environment re. Clean Up of Old Town Clyde River and Cape Christian Sites (Arreak)
I wish to table my recent correspondence to the Minister of Environment and his reply concerning the Old Town Clyde River and the Cape Christian Sites.
Tabled Document 127 – 2(4): Information and Privacy Commissioner Annual Report 2006-2007 (Speaker)
Members, I wish to table today the 2006-07 Annual Report of the Information and Privacy Commissioner of Nunavut.
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Are we on Item 15?
I’m sorry, Mr. Speaker.
Just wait a little bit.
Bill 18 – An Act to Amend the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act and Related Statutes – Notice
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (interpretation ends) I give notice that on Monday, October 29, 2007, that Bill 18, An Act to Amend the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act and Related Statutes will be read for the first time. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Bill 19 – An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act, No. 2 – Notice
Hon. David Simailak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (interpretation ends) I give notice that on Monday, October 29, 2007, that Bill 19, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act, No. 2, will be read for the first time. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Bill 16 with Mr. Evyagotailak in the Chair.
Before we proceed, we will take a break for lunch and I would like members to return at one o’clock.
>>House recessed at 11:50 and Committee resumed at 13:02
Chairman (Mr. Evyagotailak): Good afternoon.
In Committee of the Whole, we have the following item to deal with: Bill 16.
Mr. Kattuk: Mr. Chairman, we wish to continue with Bill 16 and complete the review of the Capital Estimates for the Department of Community and Government Services. If time permits, we would then proceed to the review of the Capital Estimates for the Department of Environment.
Chairman: Are we in agreement we continue with the Capital Estimates for Community and Government Services?
Chairman: Thank you. Madam Brown, do you have staff you want at the witness table? Madam Minister.
Chairman: Does the committee agree to have the Community and Government Services staff attend the witness table?
Chairman: Thank you. Go ahead.
Minister Brown, for the record, please introduce your staff.
This is my Deputy Minister, David Akeeagok, and to my right is Mr. Dawe, our Director.
We will continue on page J-8 of the Capital Estimates Book.
Questions on J-8.
Kitikmeot Region. Mr. Mapsalak.
I promise I won’t take all the time.
I just have a couple of questions I would like to ask.
I would like to follow up on an issue that was raised yesterday in the chairman’s opening remarks. I’m hearing concerns from contractors on their bids on GN projects are not being accepted because they are too high.
As the chair noted yesterday, a number of factors are driving up the costs of construction projects in Nunavut.
The recent announcement from the Cabinet Retreat indicated that CGS has been directing to “present solutions for the future management of large scale projects.” Can the minister and her officials indicate how they are addressing this issue?
Since we heard those complaints from the standing committee before, the staff and I have been trying to address the different issues around those high costs of overbidding and things related to that.
In addition to a project and office resources, in order to address capacity issues without a project management staff, as well as a quantity surveyor to monitor and control capital costs, and other things that we are trying to address, is to ensure that our major work tenders are issued earlier in the season.  We have been hearing that from different groups that perhaps, if we issued the tender or RFP process earlier in the year that could be one factor that might help to alleviate some of these problems, and not to overload our communities with several capital projects.
Also, to initiate an NNI pilot training program for the Cape Dorset school projects.
There have been a number of issues or initiatives that we’ve been looking at to investigate alternative approaches to construction contracting. An example would be with a construction management approach. Phasing in a project; breaking down a large project into smaller parts in order to provide more opportunities for small and medium contractors so that the local capacity can handle it. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
These contractors love to bid but I don’t think they can if the government limits the project to where these companies will lose money. So I would like the minister to really look into it.
I also heard concerns from contractors about building disputes with the government. Can the minister indicate to me how the government works with contractors to resolve disputes?
The CGS and the staff handle a lot of contracts, big ones, medium ones, small ones, and of course, from time to time, there are disputes.
To handle those disputes, we try and meet with the contractors as soon problems arise and try to work things out with them.
Sometimes it doesn’t only take one meeting to solve those problems. There have been ongoing meetings.
Contracts are huge.
They can be very complex at times and disputes can be complex as well, but the staff have always tried to resolve them. And, if I need to, I do go to the meetings with the staff and deal with the contractors. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Lastly, how do they look into these situations? Who do they hire to look into these situations to rectify the problems to find out as to what the government has put out as a contract?
Whether the construction could be built or whether that project could be done by the contractors, how do you know as to how the capital funds are enough for the contract work that’s put out there, whatever it is?
This is my last question. How do you deal with those contracts?
Hon. Levinia Brown (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Mr. Mapsalak.
I’ll get the Director, Mr. Dawe, to answer the question.
There are quite a number of approaches that we can use to look at disputes with the contractors, not necessarily disputes but even just issues surrounding the payments particularly. It depends an awful lot on what the issue is.
One of the things that we always try to do is to set up a series of pre-job meetings with the contractors. This is usually something that’s done at the project manager level. Within each region, the project officers and the project managers, who are responsible for the project deliveries, they will meet with the contractors, they will discuss cash flows, they will discuss schedules, and try to get a handle up front on where these things might arise and try to address them a bit more proactively.
If some of the problems come up, if the dispute is a difference of opinion as to what the work might be valued at or something like that, there are contract provisions within the contracts to address those through different mechanisms, like mediation or the job meetings.
In a lot of cases we find it’s sometimes just a simple matter of a payment maybe being delayed. Quite a serious item, I know, for a smaller contractor, but a little bit unavoidable sometimes, especially in these days where we’re coming really close to our budget levels and we have to make sure that we have the money available when the bills are due.
So that then falls to our finance people within CGS and we try to make sure that the budgets follow closely but we know are going to be the payment requirements. We work it out as best we can to make sure that the cash keeps flowing.
Thanks again, Mr. Mapsalak, for your questions.
Mr. Curley: Mr. Chairman, I want to follow-up on some of that because all of the major contracts that are normally administered by CGS have, I think, across-the-board kind of an impact with respect to how well they’re doing it. That’s a good impact but not to the negative one. There are also negative ones.
I’m not 100 percent sure, and I want to thank the Member for Akulliq for following up on the statement I made as the chairman but I want to add to that.
I’m not fully convinced myself, whether or not CGS has the full record of problems associated with tenders. I think there are many good examples that you could table in the House if there are contract problems with costs.
So variation with the government’s own cost estimates and the bids coming in; I don’t think we have our hands on all of this stuff.
What we hear from the minister is Alberta’s boom is causing these cost escalations.
I’m not convinced with that myself.
For instance, we heard from the Speaker’s Ruling this morning that we’re not supposed to assume the minister is thinking that way, or we’re not supposed to be asking the minister “What do you feel about this? What’s your opinion of this?”
And yet, we have no problem in saying, “In our opinion, the Alberta economy is causing inflation or cost estimates being submitted.”
Now, that’s just a speculation in my view.
So I think I would ask the Clerk and the staff to ask the government to quit submitting ideas from there that are not really factual because these are not government positions.
So I think the other more realistic one is what’s happening with this cost escalation is in our own backyard - one that we can fully look at, take it, study it, and confirm whether or not it is the case. Now, are you asking what that is? I’ll tell you.
Some of the contractors were saying to me that the NNI Policy is a reason for cost escalation. Okay, now, I’m sure many of the managers have heard that from the contractors.
Now, I think it’s the responsibility of CGS people and the minister to study that, whether or not it is time to review or not.
Here’s where the problem is, in my view, the lack of reason for not studying it is this: ED&T is responsible for NNI Policy. I mean the minister is responsible. I’m not sure if their staff is really 100 percent hands-on kind of people that are doing cross references with the costs coming in.
I think you guys are in a better position to say whether or not complying with the NNI Policy is really jacking up prices or not, right?
What the contractors will tell you is, “The NNI Policy is causing us to put tenders that are significantly higher,” 30 percent or more high than regular and so on.
They say, here’s the reason, and the Minister of Education will be really quite perked up with this and I hope he will, they say, “To hire untrained people is more costly than hiring people with certification.” And, that’s what they say.
Now, I want to ask the minister: do you concur with the private sector’s argument on that, and if so, will you undertake a thorough study of whether or not the NNI Policy, in some ways or not, is causing the problems with the cost estimating and the bids coming in higher than expected by the private sector?
Mr. Picco, I see you have your hand up. Would you like to reply to the comments and questions?
Go ahead, Mr. Picco.
I appreciate the comments being made by the member and the direction that he is leading the discussion. I just want to clarify a couple of points.
First of all, when the government states that there are issues with cost increases like capital projects because of the hazy economy in Alberta, that’s not something that we make up. That’s proven out in the facts.