EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
We encourage that through the Nunavut Housing Corporation, through our programs, the NDAP program and other various programs that we have throughout the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
There are a lot of other factors that may be misinterpreted. Of course, Pond Inlet ranked 18th.
As such, they weren’t allocated any units because there were communities that were in greater need.
In a wage economy, Baker Lake has that through the Agnico-Eagle Mines, but they were allocated 30 units.
As such, there was a greater demand to house people when compared to the housing situation and the waiting list.
All of these factors are put in place or looked at, including the economic activity within the communities. The member mentioned Cape Dorset.
Cape Dorset also wasn’t allocated any units. There are a number of factors and one of them was generating capacity. Also, on a ranking list, they ranked below the last community that was allocated units.
I’ll ask my question this way.
There is a policy in place for providing houses for communities.
The minister states that there are all kinds of ways to figure out if one community will get houses. They use numbers and waiting lists.
I’ll use Pond Inlet as an example. I don’t really agree with the minister saying that Pond Inlet is the 18th in line to receive housing.
My question is concerning the methodology.
The minister stated that he will be using the methodology before it is changed.
So are the people of Pond Inlet not expected to get any houses in the near future?
Mr. Chairman, the methodology used was the fairest, transparent, and based on community needs. That’s the method we’re going to be using, as I indicated, until there’s a comparative, relative equalization across communities of Nunavut.
Mr. Chairman, if I can, I would like Mr. Barriault to respond in more detail with the specific numbers pertaining to percentages.
Once this round of allocations is completed, there are several communities that still have a very much greater need demonstrated than others.
We are still not at a point of equalizing or showing a comparable need between communities.
If we look at Iqaluit, Iqaluit is over 56 percent on the waiting list.
Even after the allocations this year, their waiting list is still in the mid 40s, 45 to 46 percent.
Compared to other communities at 17 percent, there’s a very large discrepancy. These are the types of numbers we are trying to equalize.
If we look at Repulse Bay, Repulse Bay is close to 47 percent on the waiting list. That’s 47 percent need in their housing compared to 17 percent in other communities.
Even after the allocation, Repulse Bay is still in the 30 percent range. So their need is still twice as much as other communities. We have to address this discrepancy in need between our communities.
Once we get to a point that relative needs are on the same level, then we can start to look at different approaches.
Looking at the numbers, the percentages you are quoting, I can’t really understand as an Inuk because I am not very good with numbers. I don’t really understand.
Would the people of Pond Inlet be getting houses? Do we have to wait until all of the other communities have been allocated housing for Pond Inlet to finally get what they need?
I will have Mr. Barriault respond to that question in detail.
I am referencing some documents to ensure I’m giving you some accurate numbers.
There are a number of communities in Nunavut, mostly the ones that have not been allocated housing this round, whose need varies from 8 percent to roughly 21 percent.
At 21 or 20 percent, that means for every five houses that you have, you need one more.
There are many communities that are in a situation that for every five houses they have, if they had one more, they would no longer have a waiting list.
If we look at the lowest need at this point, it was in Resolute Bay.
That was 8 percent.
That means they need one additional house for every ten houses they have.
Pond Inlet has twice as much need as Resolute Bay, but meanwhile, Iqaluit has twice as much need as Pond Inlet.
For every ten houses that Iqaluit has, it needs another five houses.
For every ten houses that Pond Inlet has, it needs two more houses.
This is the comparison that we are trying to look at.
Pond Inlet’s need is the same or very close to being the same as Cape Dorset, Arctic Bay, Pangnirtung, Hall Beach, Kugaaruk, and Kimmirut.
Many of these communities have very similar needs, but there are some communities that have needs that are twice as great. Until we can address those much larger needs, we cannot start addressing the other needs.
We have chosen to address the greatest needs first and once the relative needs are similar, all communities will be considered in a very equal fashion because they will be on an equal footing at that point.
Perhaps maybe because I didn’t really listen, I don’t think I really got my response.
According to the method that you are using to allocate houses, is Pond Inlet not expected to have any houses in the near future?
Mr. Chairman, once the $900 million construction of units is factored into the communities, of course, percentages are going to be changed.
There is going to be no construction in Nunavut until we get more funding from the federal government. The next task of the cabinet is to make sure that we access more funding from the federal government.
Mr. Chairman, if I can, I would like Mr. Barriault to respond to that question in more detail.
Everything is very much dependent on the funding that we have available.
Within the limitations of that funding, we will address the greatest needs first.
The funding levels we receive will really be what determine how quickly Pond Inlet and communities that have a lower need than the ones that we are currently constructing in can receive new houses. That’s really the determining factor. The sooner that we can obtain additional funds, the sooner we can build in all communities.
As Minister Taptuna pointed out earlier, Pond Inlet did receive an increase in their housing stock of almost 27 percent between the housing trust and Canada’s Economic Action Plan.
So that was quite a sizable increase in stock.
We recognize that there is still a need in Pond Inlet, but we also recognize that there is a greater need in some other communities.
We wish we could provide all of the housing that is required by everyone, but as we noted earlier, we would need greater than $1 billion to be able to do so.
With the limited means that we do have, it’s incumbent on us to maximize the impact of that money and also to address the greatest needs first.
Perhaps if I paraphrase the question in this way, it will be understood.
In looking at your housing allocation methodology as it stands, Pond Inlet is currently 18th on the list. I understand that fact completely.
For the next upcoming five-year period, if we were fortunate enough to receive a $100 million funding formula… .
As I stated earlier, I am numerically challenged in terms of mathematical formulas. Let me raise this question. Let’s say we were to receive funding in the amount of $100 million for five-year periods in the future.
Pond Inlet currently stands at the 18th spot. If we looked at the upcoming five-year period, does that mean that Pond Inlet may qualify for more housing in this hypothetical five-year period? I ask the question based on your current methodology.
Again, that depends on the amount of funding that we will get from the federal government. That will change the outlook on the needs. Mr. Chairman, if we’re able to build a lot more units with over $100 million in new funding, of course, it would make every situation different.
We will have to take a close look at that to see if we can stretch the funding dollars to include some of these other communities that Mr. Enook is talking about, including Pond Inlet.
I don’t know exactly how to state my question.
I know that you have a methodology in place for building houses in communities. I understand that.
I also know that some communities need more than others.
The housing corporation knows about the number system because they use that system. Pond Inlet is 18th on the list.
What I’m trying to ask is: from now, if the Nunavut government gets $100 million every year for five years to build houses, would housing be allocated to Pond Inlet?
Every situation changes and whether we get funding every year, it changes the whole scenario. Of course, we’re hoping that we could get $100 million every year, but more than likely, that is not going to be the case. That’s exactly what we, as cabinet, strive to relay in a message to our counterparts down in Ottawa.
Mr. Chairman, if I can, I’ll have Mr. Barriault respond to that question in detail because there’s a whole number of different factors that’s got to be considered when the funding level goes from $100 million in five years or $100 million every year.
If I can, Mr. Chairman, I would like Mr. Barriault to respond to that question.
As housing is allocated through new construction funding, it does impact the relative need in that community. As such, the ranking in the waitlist percentage changes for all the communities.
We also have to keep in mind that populations are growing at different paces in different communities; that people are moving from community to community, sometimes for employment or family reasons, and that impacts the waiting list.
Without taking those things into consideration, for example, Whale Cove is currently ranked as ninth in terms of need.
Once their housing allocation is completed for the building of a five-plex, their rank then becomes 17th and Pond Inlet’s ranking actually moves up to 15th. Other communities such as Baker Lake is currently ranked as the seventh greatest need, but once we can undertake this construction, their ranking moves down to 16th.
So Pond Inlet, then, has a slightly greater need than those communities. In those communities, we have managed to equalize their need to Pond Inlet and a lot of other communities.
Meanwhile, once we look at communities such as Repulse Bay, Arviat, and Clyde River, they’re still in the top four communities of having the greatest needs.
So even with the construction that we have planned, their relative need is still substantially greater.
As those are being addressed, we get closer and closer to be able to build in Pond Inlet and other communities.
If we had continued investment, then within five years, if we continued at that level, we would be able to equalize the needs and be able to consider all communities on a more level playing field. (interpretation) Thank you.
I don’t want people to just give me details.
I want answers. I understand what you are telling me. I just need an answer to this question.
With the methodology that you’re using, should Pond Inlet not expect to receive any houses in the near future?
That’s all I wanted to know.
Hon. Peter Taptuna: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’ll try and respond to that question.
As I indicated before, everything is dependent on the amount of funding that we receive from the federal government pertaining to housing units.
If we do get funding that’s over $200 million, that’s going to change the whole scenario.
As I indicated, we’re trying to equalize the needs within the communities so every community would have an equal opportunity of being allocated units.
Again, at this time, we’re trying to address those that have needs within the smaller communities.
Mr. Chairman, if we do get another round of funding, I am sure, throughout the years, every factor is going to be considered. We have a population growth rate and we need 90 to 100 new units per year. Every community is not the same.
These numbers could change depending on certain circumstances, especially the amount of funding we receive from the federal government.
I’m proud to be representing the people of Pond Inlet.
As Pond Inlet residents, we do have quite a large number of problems for lack of housing.
Pond Inlet will not get any answers for what they’re asking.
I don’t know how else to ask.
What I’m trying to ask is that and I’m not getting proper answers.
When can Pond Inlet expect to get housing?
I know that I won’t get an answer, but that’s the question that I’m asking. Thank you.
I’m not going to give a false answer. I’m not going to make an assumption.
Therefore, I’m not going to say “yes” or “no” to his question.
Everything is dependent on the amount of funding this government receives from the federal government for housing units to be allocated throughout the territory. Things can change. Communities change.
With the funding level on an annual basis of $100 million, that’s going to be changing a lot quicker. If we receive funding that’s over $100 million, let’s say, $200 million, it changes the whole scenario. In order to be fair and transparent, we will have to go through the procedures to make it fair and transparent.
Mr. Chairman, I am not going to say “yes” or “no” to his question because I’ll be assuming.
There’s a procedure that we do have to follow and every community is different.
According to the clock, your time limit has passed, Mr. Enook.
I still have one more name. Mr. Curley.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I’m not going to deal with the methodology.
I think what we’re looking for throughout Nunavut is the fairest approach to distribute housing. Surely, it depends on how much money is available.
I think what we have to say here is that as MLAs, there’s not really much that we can help you with in increasing the supply of housing for Nunavutmiut.
Unless the minister succeeds, No. 1, at reducing the cost of construction, that is one way that involves transportation costs, that involves the shipping companies finding a way for charitable or public housing.
That is one area.
Secondly, unless you and your colleagues reduce the cost of municipal lots, to build a five-plex in my home community right now, that’s five lots, about three or four or five lots, costs over $300,000 before you put anything on it. Before you put any one nail, it’s over $350,000 for a lot for a five-plex. It costs over $300,000.
I believe the minister can negotiate with his colleagues that we need help in that area.
I would like the minister to explain a bit more. Are you going to try and negotiate with your colleagues in cabinet that there be an incentive or policies negotiated to allow the Nunavut Housing Corporation, as a charitable, non-profit company, to reduce the [cost of] lots available so that we can build more houses, so that some communities that rank 18th can be provided with housing? Would that be possible?
One of the things that we try and do is reduce the cost of construction. With the help of the expertise that we have on the board of the Nunavut Housing Corporation, they’re directed to look for ways to reduce costs in every shape and form that we can try and think of, and the lots are one of them.
As you know, we have made some changes in our procurement processes to cut down on costs. Without hesitation, I would be looking for other ways to cut costs.
With some recommendations or even some ideas from out there, we will certainly be looking for other ways of cutting costs.
I wouldn’t be necessarily negotiating with my colleagues at the cabinet level, but certainly, we’re going to be talking about that and trying to find ways, as a government as a whole, to try and reduce costs to get more units into Nunavut.
Mr. Chairman, if I can, I’ll have Mr. Barriault elaborate a little more on that.
There are definitely a number of factors that we are trying to tackle and address to reduce the cost of building in Nunavut.
There are a number of factors that are driving our needs in our funding requirements.
One is population growth. One is the percentage of our population that needs public housing because they can’t afford any other option.
So we have to look at other affordable housing means that do not require as much subsidy from government, but we also have to look at means for Nunavummiut to become employed and not need the level of subsidy that they are currently requiring.
On top of that, we have to look at ways we can reduce the cost of providing any housing that we do need to provide. That includes transportation costs and land development costs.
There are many different factors that do impact on the need for housing, the affordability of housing, and the cost of housing.
Working with Community and Government Services and working with the Nunavut municipalities to find ways to reduce land costs is one of the means that we are pursuing and have already begun pursuing.
We also have to keep in mind that simply reducing costs that are charged to the Nunavut Housing Corporation means that those costs have to be absorbed by someone else.
Unless we can find a way to reduce the overall cost, someone still has to pay for the development cost.
Things are somewhat complex. They’re not always as simple as they appear.
We have to keep in mind that, through all of these different means of reducing the needs and the dependence on housing, if we can’t find the means to reduce that need and we are not able to supply 90 houses per year to keep up with population growth, the impact of this $100 million investment will disappear in three years.
We need roughly $36 million a year to keep up with the population growth based on current costs and current need projections. $100 million only represents three years of that population growth pressure.
We have to approach this from many different aspects.
The Nunavut Housing Corporation’s GN comprehensive housing strategy addresses all of those factors. We can’t solve this alone. We have to work together, and we will continue to do this.
I appreciate that. I fully understand that. One thing I want to make clear, though, is that it’s not up to the federal government to reduce the cost of construction or give the public in Nunavut a better chance to get a home by reducing the cost of lots.
That’s within our own government.
Our own government can take care of that.
So the sooner we get some indications from the minister and his officials, it would help to start building affordable homes and increase the supply of housing.
Having said that, Mr. Chairman, I want to ask the minister: in developing the ranking system for public housing, was there consideration used for availability of other housing like the private sector, like in Iqaluit here?
There is ample supply of housing here.
It’s just that they remain empty.
That’s the whole thing. Why aren’t we able to tap into those apartments and still allow Iqaluit as a pressure point in the ranking system?
If I can, Mr. Chairman, I want Mr. Barriault to answer that question in detail.
Every community has a different housing need and also a different housing supply available.
In most Nunavut communities, there are no private houses available for rental whatsoever and very limited number of houses available for sale.
Iqaluit has a very different market than most of the other communities. There are many privately owned rental units, but many of them are targeted to corporate clients.
Some of the rents that are being charged and sought by the realtors are well beyond the affordable reach of most Nunavummiut. Companies tend to rent these houses for their staff and they become staff housing, but most individuals cannot afford the rents that they’re seeking.
To some extent, it’s a matter of supply and demand. If you are a company that’s profit-driven and you can maximize your profit by charging high rents to people who are willing to pay, as long as someone is willing to pay it, then that’s how you increase your profits for your investors. If no one is willing to pay that price, then you lower your price.
We’re seeking means right now in working with the Iqaluit-based developers to make an affordable housing supply available for this market. Development is very limited through the City of Iqaluit at this point.
They have some infrastructure challenges that prevent them from developing at a faster pace or at a pace that we would like to see. Many developers would actually build more rental housing if there was developed land available to do so.
We are discussing these challenges both in terms of lack of affordable housing, either for purchase or for rent, and different development challenges in the city of Iqaluit on Thursday of this week, in the Sixth Annual Iqaluit Housing Roundtable sponsored by Canada Mortgage and Housing. This has been an annual event where we do explore some of those challenges and try to find solutions, working together between realtors, developers, contractors, and builders. We have to work together to find these solutions.
The City of Iqaluit, by the way, is also a partner in this endeavour. (interpretation) Thank you.
My next question, really, has to do with the fact that the Nunavut Housing Corporation is also responsible for supplying staff housing.
Out of the $100 million available, is there any allocation for staff housing?
No, there is no allocation for staff units. The $100 million is for public units.
Mr. Chairman, it is a fact, though, that the Nunavut Housing Corporation is responsible for staff housing supply.
Can the minister indicate the projections of what he has to supply the number of staff housing units throughout Nunavut for the coming year? Does he have that information?
I don’t have that information in front of me. If Mr. Barriault can respond to that question.
The Nunavut Housing Corporation works with the GN Department of Finance’s human resource division in determining where the greatest need is for staff housing and determining where to allocate and supply housing with the limited funding that is made available to the Nunavut Housing Corporation. The housing corporation is the portfolio manager.
We do property management, we do check-ins and check-outs of staff housing units, and we oversee the allocation process.
Staff housing is a recruitment and retention tool of the Government of Nunavut. We have to work closely with the human resource function in determining where those greatest needs are.
There are many client departments that make use of staff housing. The Nunavut Housing Corporation works with these departments to help identify what their pressing staff housing needs are in the various Nunavut communities.
We then have to explore leasing and purchase options or building options to get the best value for the funds that are available, also in terms of land availability, if we want to build, or leasing, if leasing opportunities exist.
For the year 2013, $5 million was allocated for construction of staff housing. Most of this money has been allocated for the building of a 10-plex in Cambridge Bay.
The location of this construction was determined in consultation with the Department of Human Resources.
Has the minister at all considered changing that policy so that the Nunavut Housing Corporation gets away from supplying housing to staff housing in Nunavut and allow the private sector, actually, to build private or at least the staff housing supply throughout Nunavut?
That would surely improve, at least, the government’s ability to invest its own money towards public housing in Nunavut.
Would that not be a better policy and, if not, can the minister explain, please?
I wish to remind members that we are only discussing issues contained in the statement regard the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s allocation methodology for housing.
This is just a reminder to members.
If you would like to respond, Minister Taptuna, can you try to answer the question from Mr. Curley?
Very quickly, we are exploring that option. In fact, there’s some of that happening in Baker Lake.
If I can, Mr. Chairman, I’ll have the president elaborate a little more on that question.
As some of our Nunavut economies start to develop and there’s more and more wage employment, there will be more and more opportunity for the private sector to develop housing to rent directly to Nunavummiut.
Unfortunately, in most of our communities, there is not that economic thrust happening and communities are not large enough to make it economically feasible for private developers to proceed to do so.