EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
SPOT devices are easy to master and it looks like that is what you would be distributing, which I am pleased about.
GPS devices are also very good equipment to use as well as cellphones when there is a person lost out there. Sometimes we don’t know the name of the place where the individual is located.
So there has to be training programs to use GPS or other devices and also to learn the place names of areas near our communities. Is it possible for your department to look at those types of training programs some time in the future?
Around here, as a search and rescue organization, we are only provided equipment that can be used in the winter and summer, but in the fall or spring, when you can’t use skidoos on the land or boats in the water, there is not much you can do when somebody gets lost out there. I was thinking about possibly having hovercraft that can be used even on thin ice.
They would be far more useful than the six-wheeled all-terrain vehicles, at least in our community.
I wanted to mention that because they can be used during those two seasons when the ice is too bad or when it’s just forming.
I would like to see some type of pilot project where we can use hovercraft because the six-wheelers are simply useless here.
They just sit around and break down just out of disuse.
It’s a question and you can respond to it, but then again, it’s more of a statement.
I would like the possibility of acquiring such equipment as hovercraft that can be manned by two people to be placed as a priority of your department, if it is at all possible.
He talked for quite a while. Minister Kusugak, if you can remember all of his comments, you can respond if you wish to do so.
Training programs on devices like GPS will have to be provided by fully Inuktitut-speaking instructors. It goes without saying that this will be seriously considered.
With respect to your other comment, if we can’t use the six- or eight-wheel all-terrain vehicle in your community, we will consider shipping it to another community where it can be used.
In terrain such as thin or thick ice, the use of hovercraft could very well be ideal.
The craft you’re talking about that can travel on top of water and propeller-driven are not cheap.
The rubber sheathing that keeps the air in is vulnerable to ripping.
The models we see in operation in the south are large models and they look extremely efficient and have been widely reported on in a positive light. However, the price for these machines is very high. We would have to research to see if hovercraft are feasible and, of course, we need to keep our options open that would allow us to operate in dangerous conditions
Personally I have never seen what the best solution is for what we need here in the north.
If we need to, we can investigate this to see if it would be a good option.
I hope I have responded to the member’s question.
Since there is no specific Inuktitut terminology for hovercraft, I had to describe the machine.
I’m trying to talk about a machine that I believe is called a water plane, that has the hull of a boat and is equipped with a fan in the back, but they are not hovercraft.
These are different types of machines and I believe they are called water planes.
They average about $15,000 to $18,000 in price and they could be utilized during certain periods. I’m aware of the high prices that hovercraft command, but I was not specifically referring to them. That was not what I was referring to.
What I was speaking of are those swamp boats that are used in the warm climates, that we see on television on various shows, which are used in marshy, swampy areas where the water is too shallow.
That is what I was trying to mention. I am unsure of the exact term, but I believe that the term may be a water plane.
Based on your response about hovercraft, I was not referring to them but these swamp boats with fans in the back.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) This is just clarification.
Minister Kusugak, do you have any additional comments?
Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Thank you. I thank him for that clarification.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you. I understand now what you were talking about.
I also have a question. If the minister cannot respond, perhaps the Minister of Health and Social Services can provide a response.
In the community health stations, they have to undertake emergency action for which they request air ambulance services, for example, if a person is suffering from a seizure or as a result of an accident. However, I believe there are policies that state that in these cases, they should not be sent out due to the fact that they are not protected if they had to attend to accidents or seizures.
Can this be clarified? The reasoning is that some people feel that they are being abandoned if the nurses are unable to attend to these people who are in that situation within the community. Is this the case?
Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): I thank Ms. Ugyuk for asking that question and for asking whether that’s the responsibility of the Department of Health.
Yes, perhaps if the Minister of Health and Social Services responded to that question, it would be more appropriate as this does not fall under our mandate. We do not deal with health matters or in delivering these cases to the health centres.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Kusugak. (interpretation ends) Minister Peterson, are you prepared to answer this?
Maybe it would be better if she could ask that question during question period. I would like to conclude my department if at all possible.
I would like to proceed with my department and conclude it if that’s okay with you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Ugyuk (interpretation): Thank you. Perhaps I should ask about the emergency preparedness plan in the communities.
In my constituency, some people are concerned about the nurses not being able to pick up patients to the nursing station. Is it my understanding that it is policy that nurses cannot go and pick up patients? I believe this is part of the emergency preparedness plan and I want to ask if that is indeed the case.
If there should be an emergency in the communities, preparedness issues cover a whole variety of emergencies. For example, if there should be an electrical outage, flooding, and other emergencies, they’re situations that the government and hamlets would have to address. I’m sure not everyone is going to be pleased, but this is part of the policy.
Possibly the hamlet could have discussions with the nurses about this issue some time in the future and look at how they can resolve it.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for recognizing me.
The search and rescue organizations are a foundation in our communities. They are the first responders when someone is lost or when there is an emergency.
In Repulse Bay, I was asked who was responsible for funding those types of organizations and my response was that it’s the hamlets that seem to have the money.
My question under grants and contributions is: can the monies be accessed by the hamlets to be used by the search and rescue operations or do they have to do fundraising to fund themselves?
We provide money under the emergency program in Nunavut.
How much money is allocated to smaller communities like Kugaaruk and Repulse Bay, or is there an agreement between the hamlet and CGS to provide those monies to such organizations?
They’re not given funding.
I believe you told me they weren’t provided money in the first place, but the communities find it hard to raise funds.
For example, in Kugaaruk, there was an individual who was lost and was never found.
People in the community got together to help out the search and rescue operation with assistance from other communities like Taloyoak and Repulse Bay.
Are they actually not provided money by the government?
Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank Mr. Ningark for that question.
They have to be a non-profit organization and the money they get has to be used by their organization. They need a board, policies, and terms of reference, and do their bookkeeping.
They can only access funds that way, but I can get back to the member and give him an update on the amount that they can receive if he wants more information.
Moving on. Ms. Ell.
Some of the questions were asked, but I would like further clarification on search and rescue operations.
We always try to make sure that the organizations are available when one of our relatives is lost.
They are volunteers and they use their own equipment like snowmobiles, qamutiks, and so on, in the winter and in the summer, they have to use their own boats and other equipment required.
At times, a volunteer will lose equipment.
The minister seemed to indicate some type of a policy, but what happens if a volunteer loses equipment?
Are there any funds or insurance programs set to be used by such organizations as search and rescue organizations?
We have gone through this on certain occasions.
We look at it on a case-by-case basis in terms of the incident, what happened, and so on. There is a whole variety of things they can go by.
We look at it on a case-by-case basis.
Ms. Ell (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the minister. If they lost their equipment like a snowmobile, qamutik, or some other piece of equipment, would that lost item be replaced or would it just be reviewed?
As I stated earlier, there are different incidents that happen.
If it’s required, then we replace the equipment, but we look at each incident on a standalone basis.
I don’t have a lot of questions left. I was also asked a question about the fire marshal and what he does in Nunavut.
A lot of us aren’t exactly sure what the fire marshal does. Does he have to inspect buildings or houses to make sure they have proper exits, fire extinguishers, and so on? For our information, could the minister explain what the fire marshal does?
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Ms. Ell. Minister Kusugak.
Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Office of the Fire Marshal does not have the authority to inspect privately-owned apartment buildings without the consent of the owner or occupant or a warrant. As the Office of the Fire Marshal has no authority in this area, it has no knowledge of inspection frequency.
The landlord has an obligation to meet the code adopted by the city.
The lessees also have obligations within the terms of the lease. The Office of the Fire Marshal is not privy to these documents.
The City of Iqaluit has a by-law regarding building permits and inspections. They also have a building inspector who does the inspections. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman: Thank you, Minister Kusugak. Ms. Ell.
This will be my last question. There was an announcement saying that we were going to be getting new building codes. Is there something in there which states that houses should have more than one exit?
Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will review the building codes and get back to the member because I can’t recall exactly what the details were. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Kusugak. We are on page J-7 at this time. Mr. Curley.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): Very briefly and just for further clarity regarding the fire marshal, I believe he was in Rankin Inlet and has since moved here.
Perhaps you can describe that briefly.
In compliance with regulations under your duties, the vehicles are owned by the hamlets.
If you’re going to be ordering a fire truck, is it under the fire marshal’s budget or is it under the hamlet’s budget?
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Curley. Minister Kusugak.
It doesn’t go through the fire marshal’s office; it goes through the capital plans and we deal with that during the budget session. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Kusugak. Mr. Curley.
The reason why I asked that question is the fire marshal’s duties and responsibilities are outlined under legislation and those laws are quite complicated. For example, if there should be an infringement and a fire reignites again causing loss of life, it goes under the fire marshal’s liability coverage, even though local fire crews are already covered. Could you do a review and consolidate all of these and put them under the fire marshal’s responsibilities?
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Curley. Minister Kusugak.
They are separate and there is a rationale for that. Local fire departments are independent from the fire marshal’s office, which similarly has to be independent. It has never occurred to me to consolidate them into one unit out of concern that they have to be treated separately.
That’s how I would respond to that question.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): I believe the fire marshal has flagged this. In accordance with case law, the fire marshal’s office is liable if things were not dealt with properly.
There have been court proceedings in the provinces where the fire marshals in Canada have to be aware that they’re subject to liability if a fire crew didn’t properly extinguish a fire.
As an example, there could be a court case should an individual lose their personal property or house. I’m just using that as an example.
In the provinces, most of the fire departments and the fire marshals’ office operations seem to be consolidated administratively.
Could the minister look at this issue and look at consolidating the fire marshal’s office and the fire department?
If I should ask any fire-related question about who would be responsible for fire prevention, we know that the fire marshal’s office doesn’t have anything. Under the law, he is responsible. I don’t think he does too much on fire prevention.
You’re talking about the fire marshal and the fire department.
The fire department is standalone and so is the fire marshal’s office.
Hamlets have fire departments while we have the fire marshal’s office, which is administered under the fire code.
They are not the same. (interpretation ends) The fire marshal is focused on prevention and the fire department is focused on firefighting. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
What is guiding the fire department?
Is it through legislation or through the Municipal Act?
Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Perhaps Kathleen can speak to the details.
I’ll have my deputy minister respond to that, Mr. Chairman.
In Nunavut, most of the firefighting capability is actually volunteers and it’s in communities. Our fire marshal focuses on a lot of training of all these volunteer firefighters in fire departments in each community.
The city is governed a little differently and they’re structured a little differently.
Certainly, the obligation for firefighting rests with the municipal jurisdictions. There is support provided by the fire marshal’s office through training, through prevention, and equipment in this case too.
I believe that should be reviewed, along with operations so that there will be no confusion as a result of consolidation. It seems difficult to consolidate them.
If there is a huge fire, who has the authority to try to put it out?
Is it the local fire department or would the fire marshal take charge?
Normally authority over a private home in case of a fire is transferred. (interpretation ends) Is it to the fire department or to the fire marshal?
Hon. Lorne Kusugak: The fire department.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): The fire department would take over the authority, but I believe the fire marshal has the responsibility for the final reporting. I’m sure the fire marshal has to sign off on the final report. Is that the case?
Once the fire has been put out, the fire marshal starts working on the report.
We are on page J-7. Branch Summary. Community and Government Services.
Total Operations and Maintenance. $5,606,000.
Turn to page J-8. (interpretation ends) Community and Government Services. Branch Summary. Capital Planning and Technical Services.
In consistence with some of the questions I had asked in the House, I just want to ask this question as well while we are on this subject on J-8. The hon. minister’s departmental business plan in 2011-12, bullet No. 3, indicates that there is an update and the status reads, “CGS, in consultation with AANDC and NAMA, continues to work with municipalities to establish procedures to assist municipalities in complying with their water licence requirements.” That was on page 175, third bullet.
My question, Mr. Chairman, is: as of today, what is the status of the establishment of procedures that are intended to assist our municipalities, and are they complying with their water licences?
Chairman (Mr. Ningeongan) (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Aupaluktuq.
We are continuing to work on that bullet.
Mr. Aupaluktuq: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As well, in the business plan on page 176, the fifth bullet and the priorities as well, and if I am out of line you may correct me, sir, priorities of 2012-13 indicate that there’s a work plan under the Municipal Wastewater Effluent Strategy. That’s also with the compliance of the mandate of the Canadian Council of the Ministers.
I want to ask the department where this strategy currently stands and what the next steps the department will make.
Dalhousie University is now reviewing the Municipal Wastewater Effluent Strategy in Nunavut.
We believe that after four years, it will be reviewed and tests will be conducted to determine the best practices for communities to implement the Municipal Wastewater Effluent Strategy.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Kusugak. Thank you.
I was given a reminder that we were going to sit into extended hours until eight o’clock tonight.
Once Mr. Aupaluktuq completes his question, we will go back to Mr. Ningark and to Mr. Elliott if that’s okay with the committee members.
Supper is ready. After the break, we will get back to Mr. Aupaluktuq.
We will start off with Mr. Ningark when we come back from supper. Is that agreeable?
Chairman: Qujannamiik, committee members.
>>Committee recessed at 18:02 and resumed at 18:32
Chairman (Mr. Enook)(interpretation): We can now resume.
Thank you, Mr. Ningeongan, for taking over for a bit.
We’re on page J-8. I don’t know why everybody seems to be bigger than earlier on. I don’t know what we just did.
Mr. Ningark, if you would like to proceed.
I thank the minister and his officials. I just want to ask for some clarification on page G-8, Capital Planning and Technical Services, with regard to asset life cycle management.
The minister is responsible for community governments and I want to ask him a question.
If I’m out of line, please correct me.
I don’t know if it’s under this page or not, but it’s called the gas tax rebate in English. I wonder if it’s under that page.
I remember the government was going to visit the communities. If it’s not under there, I apologize ahead of time.
Minister Kusugak, please clarify that to him.
Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): It’s not under this page, Mr. Chairman.
My first question is in regard to the RECAPP database and what his department has been doing over the past, I think, two years.
I was wondering if we could get an update as to whether all the communities have been visited yet and whether the database has been completed.
We are just starting the condition assessments, Mr. Chairman.
So how many communities have been visited?
Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Mr. Chairman, to date, just Iqaluit.
Okay, I guess I’m confused.
I thought the RECAPP program had been… . My understanding was that it’s an ongoing process and information has been collected over the years, and now what’s happening is every five years or something, you redo it and you’re going around the communities to assess what’s in the communities. Do I have a wrong understanding of what this is?
Maybe I could get Kathleen to elaborate a bit on that.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, if you would allow my deputy.
RECAPP is a fairly large database and there’s a fair bit of preparation that’s required to actually harmonize all the data in the same fashion it needs to go into it, all the faceplate data, basic location information, size, the type of building, and that kind of stuff.
So all of that needs to be set up properly in the database, and then the condition assessments begin.
It starts with different components of each building, it starts with the site, it starts in the foundation, building envelope, building systems, and so on, and each building is looked at for its condition and its age and serviceability.
So it’s a fairly intense bit of work.
The time it has taken thus far is just preparing the database properly so that once they start doing condition assessments, they capture the information in the same way for every building so it can be input into the database, and then be analyzed and tracked over time.
So it’s a lot of front-end work for preparing how the information needed to be gathered.
Chairman: Qujannamiik, Deputy Minister Lausman.
In terms of Iqaluit being finished, how long do you anticipate it taking to have all the communities covered?
We’re anticipating completion by the end of next year.
I had some questions around the Nunavut community integrated sustainability plans. I know, in questions that I have asked in the past and other members have asked, you had said that these documents are working documents, where hamlets will change them as priorities change and as hamlet councils change.
One of the things that I don’t see with these plans is the mechanism… . I realize the plans need to be done to help figure out where money needed to be spent and to get more organized in communities deciding what their priorities were, and then it was also a mechanism to help with gas tax as well, but I don’t see how.
If you have a hamlet changing the plan, what’s in place to have the department know that there has been a change?
Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Excuse me, Mr. Chairman.
We have a very good communication flow, I think, with the municipalities.
If the priorities of the municipalities should change, they would communicate with us through their mayor, through their SAO, through NAM, through the Community Infrastructure Advisory Committee, to name a few.
There is a lot of communication between our department and the municipalities. They would let us know if their priorities would change.
So in terms of all hamlets have been instructed that when they do make the changes to their Nunavut community integrated sustainability plans, they know what that process is, whether they send it.
Do they do a formal motion in hamlet council saying that it is?
Again, maybe it’s because I’m not at the municipal level, but I don’t see. Maybe he could expand on what that communication flow is. Again, in speaking to my mayors, I really think it needs to be emphasized a bit more, when they make changes, what they should do with that.
I would be willing to help communicate that back to the mayors as well.
Maybe I should have added earlier that our department is in the process of hiring a sustainability coordinator to help the communities implement and maintain their ICSPs.
So that individual and individuals in that sector would be a great tool to ensure that… .
What’s key here is that the document is living and the coordinator or coordinators, at the end of the day, would ensure that communication is flowing where it needs to.
I hope that clarifies the question. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
That does definitely clear that missing link.
I did sort of not understand where the flow between the communities and his department was.
On page 175 of the business plan, one of the priorities for 2012-13 is, it says on the second bullet, “To continue to explore P3 opportunities for infrastructure.” I was just wondering if the minister could expand on that.
I know we’ve had meetings and allocated capital dollars for the P3 for the Iqaluit airport, but I wasn’t aware of any other opportunities for P3 projects across the territory.
He’s correct.
There are no other ones at this time, but it’s important to keep options and availabilities open with our federal counterparts, Mr. Chairman.
In regard to the main estimates, the building maintenance is decreasing from $25.1 million in 2011-12 to $24.9 million in 2012-13.
I would like to know what accounts for this decrease.