EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
According to my understanding, the Qulliq Energy Corporation transition contribution is to ensure smooth transition of the Petroleum Products Division to Qulliq Energy Corporation.
In Rankin Inlet, I think there were 13 positions that had to be transferred, and these employees did not want to move.
Where would you find people to fill the vacant positions in the Qulliq Energy Corporation?
Just to elaborate further, the staff will not have to be transferred.
In regards to his question on the page where the $500,000 is, it is to contribute to ensuring a smooth transition of petroleum products into Qulliq Energy Corporation.
As I have indicated, it’s for the smooth transition, for example, the computers and legal fees.
It’s mainly geared towards that.
So, I’m just explaining further, if the explanation doesn’t have enough information.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): What I’m trying to say is that the Petroleum Products Division and Power Corporation purchased fuel.
So, there is going to be three Petroleum Products Divisions; the staff will remain in the same location in the government services, the new corporation will require more staff.
The government funding that is allocated to them is going to increase from the sales, and looking at the revolving fund, there is always a small deficit.
That’s why we increased it to $19,000,000.
My question is, do they have an adequate, proper business plan if you’re going to be giving the contribution for Qulliq Energy Corporation?
Is it just verbally a transition or do they have concrete plans?
I wanted to say thank you properly, Mr. Chairman. I ended up coughing.
Just recently, since it’s time to transfer before the transfer, the business plans are now being worked on, and I can indicate to the member that I want to have a proper business plan for that.
There is another issue.
Nunavummiut should understand…. They expect that this would be a much better system, but I don’t think it was just one option.
Some private sector would be phased in.
Isn’t it time that there be a separate one for Kivalliq, Kitikmeot, and Baffin?
This $19,000,000 that’s being borrowed would not have to go back and forth.
One thing that I’m concerned about as a member of the Legislature here, this $19,000,000, I think, is just going to be transferred from the Petroleum Products Division to the Crown corporation.
They would receive royalties from there.
There are no other private corporations set up like that.
The Crown corporation will just operate.
I think 50 years ago the ships that transported oil were in the same system, but at this time, the funding that’s going to be used…. Is that a very good investment?
It’s not just going to be $500,000.
I’m sure this figure is going to be increased next fiscal year.
The Petroleum Products Division and NCPC have authority to purchase fuel.
They were operating very well even though they were two separate departments, as the Auditor General had concerns with regards to the Crown corporation, the stand-alone corporation….
Aren’t you concerned about that?
This contribution is a one-time contribution, and after that, in the next fiscal year, it will not be there.
That is why this contribution is not going to increase, because it is a one-time contribution.
On the concerns that have been raised, because we don’t want to go into concerns, this $500,000…. There is going to be a contribution agreement so that this will go smoothly.
I am not trying to make a big thing out of it.
Nor am I trying to hinder anything, but with a corporation this size, it has to make money in order to operate on its own, and you have to increase the price of fuel in order to generate the revenue that it needs.
I don’t think that these corporations should get their subsidies all the time.
With that, I would like to suggest that the PPD should stay as is and not be moved to the Energy Corporation.
A lot of us are not comfortable with the corporation; we don’t even know who the board of directors is, or who is accountable, because at this time we are talking to the minister responsible here.
I think that we should be assured that we are not going to have any ongoing problems if this is moved.
Initially, what happens is if you are going to set up a corporation, you get a loan from the bank to finance the deal.
What would happen if we take this $500,000 out?
We were directed to set up the operations so that they run smoother.
In order to do that, we set up this transition contribution for the Petroleum Products Division. The member is making very good comments.
Of course, I cannot make this decision by myself because I have to work with the cabinet and the Premier.
Under their direction we would be able to tell you exactly what we are going to be doing.
Those are very excellent questions, but I cannot answer them at this time, because I have to consult with cabinet members.
With the transition contribution we would like to have a smooth transition of PPD to Qulliq Energy Corporation.
There is room for improvement so it will have a smooth transition and so that we can deal with the problems or the concerns of the people out there.
Mr. Curley, your time is up. If you would like to make further comments, please feel free to do so afterwards.
It shows $11,838,000 for contract services.
I’m just wondering if the minister could explain what those contract services are.
The breakdown is as follows: one, GN facility leases, non-housing, to the tune of $10,200,000; two, senior technical personnel from the following companies for $1,600,000: CGI Info; CNC Global; and the numbered 1112197 Ontario company.
These are leases for government office buildings and other buildings that the government utilizes.
It is strictly just for the government or do they deal with things that the municipalities have as well?
Hon. Peter Kilabuk: Mr. Chairman, these are just for those under the government.
The one-point note happy reduction.
You see over even from the Main Estimate made in amount last year to the revised Main had dropped down a million it’s down another million close to this year.
I’m just wondering if the minister could explain this: less spaces, less units, or buildings that we’re leasing? Or, is it just a result of renegotiation of leases?
Also, a big contributing factor is partly attributable to the Government of Nunavut purchase of the Sivumut Building.
Given that factor in there, the rest of the leases overall…. Are they going up, or are they going down, or are they staying the same?
Without going into detail of where and why, they have been going down.
Just for clarification: is what’s included in purchased services for consultants, or does that fall under contract services, janitorial contracts, or what exactly?
I guess the explanation would be for phone bills and also computer data loops.
So, it is for those related purposes.
I know, again, as a reduction, because…. We don’t need as much, or as fiscal restraints on the department….
I’ve been led to believe that historically, the expenditures have been lower, and as a result we see that here today.
Looking at the figures here, usually, the more information we get, the more questions we have.
Looking at last year’s figures and looking at this year’s figures, there is quite a huge cut in here for this year.
We do know that when you were budgeting last year, there was a decrease and then again there were further reductions this year, so there is room for deducting the expenditures.
It’s obvious that the Qulliq Energy Corporation does need money after this coming year.
Of course, since we see all these reductions over the years, it is now obvious that we’re channelling those funds to the Qulliq Corporation.
We know that it has to be financed by the government, but I’m concerned about this issue and it’s very obvious that there is going to be a fuel price increase.
As the minister of government services stated yesterday, because of the world prices the price of fuel will most likely go up.
The Petroleum Products Division has 13 employees and they cost approximately $1.6 million, for the pensions and everything else, in one year. That’s quite a large amount of money that is being used for PPD.
If you’re going to set this up, if you are going to have this transition, if we delete this $500,000, I’m sure that you can still set this up. You can probably get this transition going.
If there are people that have to be relocated, and they don’t want to, or can’t because of the lack of funds, what’s going to be happening with those people that currently work for PPD?
As I stated earlier, if any of these individuals…. We’re not overly concerned about the people that would not want to move from Rankin Inlet, but I would like to say that there are 26 employees in total who work for the Petroleum Products Division: 16 of them are headquarters; 3 are in the Kivalliq Regional Office; 3 in the Kitikmeot Regional Office; and 4 in the Baffin Regional Office.
They are full time employees, and they total 26, that are in the three regions.
It seems quite obvious that since this was created and the first Assembly approved this transition, if you look at the bare bones it seems like it hasn’t been properly planned. But, it was approved by the first Assembly which I’m very proud of.
But, I am very concerned about the fact that it wasn’t properly planned and that it is not going to be a good news story for the second Assembly.
I think that it wouldn’t be good for government to approve this. I don’t think it’s the right time to approve it now.
I think it would be better if we do proper planning, build a solid foundation on it before initiating.
Our government’s mandate is to make sure that everything is running smoothly.
Do you figure that this is a good move?
I cannot respond to your question at this point because I am not sure what concerns are going to come out of this move.
What I can say is that we have been given the directive to go ahead with this to make sure that everything runs smoother.
That was the directive that we had from the cCabinet.
The reason why we got this directive is to make sure that everything runs smoother.
In regards to that question from the member, if you have concerns about it or if you need more information on how this is going to go, we can provide the information in order to alleviate some of the concerns that you have.
Of course, there are going to be concerns from the other communities.
Mr. Alagalak (interpretation): I have another question, too, that there is no other money for gambling.
If you look at it that way, just before I finish my question off, if the Nunavut Power Corporation was not running smoothly…. We were told that there is some funding allotted for contractors or consultants to do the work.
I just wondered, if Qulliq Energy Corporation was not going to run properly, is there something in place?
I will answer the question as Minister of Community and Government Services. I could say that as far as my department is concerned, we cannot really predict how smoothly it is going to run at this time.
But, if there have to be other avenues that we could use to make it run properly, then we would look for them, but I cannot say right now what it is going to be.
But, we are always looking for improvements, and I am sure that we will find out, in the coming year, what we have to do improvements on.
We have to wait until it is running.
Mr. Alagalak (interpretation): Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I would like to thank Minister Kilabuk for his response.
We will be able to give Mr. Kilabuk some direction when we feel that the corporation is not working properly.
We will give suggestions to the minister at that time.
At this time, I would like to thank the minister for responding to the questions that I had earlier on.
That is not a question, it is just a comment.
The response by the minister…. I have a concern because there is no plan in place.
It seems like they just want to let it go ahead at this time, and then you will find out that something is wrong.
That is exactly what the Auditor General was saying, that if you don’t have a plan in place, and if you don’t know how much money you are going to have return on them, then don’t go ahead with something.
The Ikuma II Report is not a plan and is not a foundation.
You cannot just say yes to all the consultants’ reports.
It has to be done by the members of the House, include the members of the House.
I think I have a concern.
I am asking the minister about that $500,000: if it is not used, would that be used for some emergency money?
Once you get a plan in place, you can start it after April.
Just to clarify, like I said, that the members of the House and the cabinet…. I was told by the members of the cabinet that this was a directive from cabinet.
I can’t really answer it at this time; the $500,000 is going to be used for a contribution.
Other members can probably tell me if I they think that my answers are not adequate.
What I was saying is that we have a better plan in place.
I am sure, like I stated earlier, that if changes should be made, we will make some changes.
I said earlier on, too, that the plan became a reality for the operations of the Qulliq Energy Corporation.
There is a working group that is in place for the planning of the operations of the Qulliq Energy Corporation.
They come from Community and Government Services and the Department of Finance working group.
They will be doing the planning for the operations of this.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): Yes, I understand, or am starting to understand, if they, perhaps, give us an overview of what the plans are in place.
But it seems like there is nothing much happening in regards to the Qulliq Energy Corporation at this time.
The Petroluem Products Division, I think, have to be appreciated. I would have to say I appreciate them because they have worked very hard with their operation and then they are going to get rid of them.
What are they going to do now if they don’t move to the Qulliq Energy Corporation, because it is going to have to have the staff to run the Qulliq Energy Corporation. And, if the money the government is spending is going to get larger, it is not going to get any smaller.
That is the thing we don’t really understand.
That is a great concern. That is why we are asking those questions.
That item, $500,000…. Isn’t there a way we can defer that and hold off until April 1?
The plan that we have in place…. If we are going to continue with the plan that we have at this time, what we’re asking for from the members of this House is support so that our staff, from my department’s point of view, the people that are going to be working at the PPD…. I could only answer for my department at this time, but what I have to say is we would like some support from the members of this House for the transition.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): Yes, thank you Mr. Chairman.
Perhaps you’re having a very good transition but you can’t have a smooth transition if there is no plan.
If you tabled a written plan that your department has in place…. We have never seen the president, and if there is no plan in place then we don’t really have the confidence to vote on this.
There is a concern that Nunavut people might not be very happy about that.
I would ask you how long is it going to take you to put up the plan and will you be tabling it in the House?
When will we hear from you?
It seems like during the session of this House….
The plan will probably not be put in place, but probably we’ll bring the plan about in the fall session.
It seems like it is going to be a little bit late for this time around to put that plan in place.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): Even if you don’t have the whole plan in place….
There is a president that is already on the board.
If the board is already in place, can you tell us how many board members there are, and who they are?
Perhaps, if you don’t name any names, you could tell us the number of the membership.
If I understand his question correctly, this is the responsibility of a different minister.
I think he’s asking me a question that should be answered by another minister.
The $500,000 is going be…. It’s a grant or contribution to the Qulliq Energy Corporation.
They have a board of directors.
Is there a board of directors in place already?
Perhaps I could go back to your department.
The Petroleum Products employees, past employees….
Apparently, they’re not moving, so what happens to their jobs?
Would they be given a chance find employment within the government?
I am sorry, Mr. Chairman.
Perhaps if I could clarify it a little bit more from the member’s community and from our department, and the name will just change; the department increase will just move on.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): The staff of the Petroleum Products was just stated by the minister….
To your knowledge, Mr. Minister, I am not really worried about the employees in Rankin Inlet, are there going to be any employees passed forward from the community of Rankin Inlet to the Qulliq Energy Corporation?
Are there going to be some transferred from Rankin Inlet to another community?
Is that one of the directions that the department received?
As far as I know, the employees will be the same people.
They are not going to have to be replaced.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): Just to ask a further question, the staff, the employees who do not want to be transferred…. Did you already conclude an agreement with them, or are you just going to start doing that after April 1, 2005?
I will have my deputy minister respond because he has been working closely, having close discussions with them.
So, I am going to ask him to answer in detail.
The number of employees identified is essentially the same.
The employees will still be employed in the same positions, in the same communities.
So, it is a net, it is just simply a change of names. Before, the minister said that they now become a part of the Qulliq Energy Corporation, and the pay will be the same or better.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): So, those are the things that we are interested in hearing. So, they will not be transferred, like when we say “new” it means “transferring” in Inuktitut.
Will they be transferred from Petroleum Products to Qulliq Energy Corporation? The staff will remain in the community, but they will now be working at Qulliq Energy Corporation, do I understand that correctly?
You are understanding correctly.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): Yes. That is why I have been stating that there needs to be a plan. You talked about maintenance, and it is still going to be using the high sums of money.
The overhead cost will be over $1 million because of that, that is why we want to hear as soon as possible.
I do not believe that this was the best alternative for the reason, as some of us state, that this $19 million dollars is expensive, and a huge sum of money for the operations, sales, and delivery.
I believe that the private sectors should be making the report and ask what are your views on that, or for your position on that, rather than making a report on something that the government had already completed.
We should also be involved in the consideration whether the private sector should be involved.
That’s the reason why I’m asking this question.
Prior to April 1, it would be ideal to provide progress reports in regards to this issue.
That way, you will receive more support from the members.
Would you agree to making progress reports?
I will want to provide information to my colleagues as we proceed with this and to elaborate further as to what the impacts are on us, on the separate staff at the local level.
As I have stated personally, myself, if this is taken on by the private sector, I don’t have any information on that. But, I agree with my colleague that we need to provide detailed information to the public as we proceed with this.
Yes, I like your statement, but I would like to state that all the chambers of commerce and all the suppliers are quite large now, such as Inuit land claim corporations.
If they took part in this…. According to my view the revolving fund could be reduced, and we need to consult with them.
There should be more than one minister working on this to consult the public.
That is why I liked your statement.
It’s an obligation to report to the communities, and to get their views on it.
If there is no view or open consultation, it seems to be closed and non-transparent; that’s when we become unhappy.
Therefore, I’m going to conclude with that, as long as you stated that you will look into the suppliers’ chambers of commerce.
And will you do that during the summer, while you can?
I would like to indicate to my colleagues, and to the public who are listening to the directives that we have….
Once this funding contribution is agreed to, this will proceed further and it will develop.
We would like to be transparent and open during this process.
In regards to my colleague’s questions, and to the suppliers and users, we will provide information for all involved.
The impacts and the benefits…. I will provide the information on this.
Mr. Mapsalak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
There was a motion not to go beyond our business hours; I believe we’ve done enough, so I would like to make a motion to report progress.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Mapsalak.
All those in favour, please raise your hand.
Thank you, Mr Minister Kilabuk, and also your officials.
Also, I move that the report of Committee of the Whole be agreed to.
Who seconds the motion?
Clerk: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A reminder to all members that there is a meeting of the full caucus on Monday morning at 10:00 in the Nanuq Room.
Orders of the Day for Monday, May 31:
Speaker (interpretation): This house stands adjourned until May 31, 2004 at 1:30 pm.
>>House adjourned at 14:45  Nunavut Canada
Monday May 31, 2004
Pages 632 – 723
Speaker: The Honourable Jobie Nutarak, M.L.A.
Opening Prayer 632
Ministers’s Statements 632
Members’s Statements 635
Returns to Oral Questions 639
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery 641
Oral Questions 641
Tabling of Documents 660
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters 662
Report of the Committee of the Whole 721
Orders of the Day 722
Monday, May 31, 2004 632
034 – 2(1): Nunavut Broadband Development Corporation (Simailak) 632
035 – 2(1): Nunavut Housing Corporation Program Information (Kilabuk) 633
036 – 2(1): Graduation of Students from Nunavut Arctic College Programs (Picco) 634
037 – 2(1): Minister Absent from the House (Aglukkaq) 634
128 – 2(1): 24 Graduates in Arviat (Alagalak) 635
129 – 2(1): Recognition of Haleena Workman (Akesuk) 635
130 – 2(1): Repulse Bay - Recognition (Mapsalak) 636
131 – 2(1): Birthday Greetings to Lynn Kilabuk (Kilabuk) 637
132 – 2(1): Fisheries in Nunavut (Tootoo) 637
133 – 2(1): Cambridge Bay Graduates (Peterson) 638
Return to Oral Question 016 – 2(1): Ikuma II Report and Hidden Subsidies (Simailak) 639
Return to Oral Question 062 – 2(1): Status of Five Year Capital Plans – Docking Facilities (Simailak) 640
Return to Oral Question 091 – 2(1): Clyde River Breakwater (Simailak) 640
141 – 2(1): Update on Fisheries in Nunavut (Tootoo) 641
142 – 2(1): Hamlet Office Move to Old Nursing Station (Curley) 643
143 – 2(1): Fuel Delivery Contract – Tujjaat Co-op (Barnabas) 644
144 – 2(1): Oil Tank Update (Alagalak) 645
145 – 2(1): Umingmaktok House Repairs (Peterson) 646
146 – 2(1): Gravel Needed in Repulse Bay (Mapsalak) 648
147 – 2(1): Broken Heavy Equipment (Kattuk) 649
148 – 2(1): Cost of Billing Error (Tootoo) 649
149 – 2(1): Sensitivity Training (Curley) 650
150 – 2(1): Details of Explanation of Power Bills (Tootoo) 651
151 – 2(1): Community Airport Radio Station Program (Barnabas) 652
152 – 2(1): Update on Ministers’ Meeting in Toronto (Peterson) 653
153 – 2(1): Kuugaaruk and Repulse Bay in Need of Teachers (Mapsalak) 654
154 – 2(1): Consider Leasing Heavy Equipment (Curley) 656
155 – 2(1): Auditor General’s Recommendations (Tootoo) 657
156 – 2(1): Problem with the Utilidor System in Resolute Bay (Barnabas) 659
026 – 2(1): Northern Mine Ministers Conference Dawson City, Yukon “Preparing for Resource Development (Peterson) 660
027 – 2(1): National Diamond Strategy: An Industry Response 660
Monday, May 31, 2004