EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
If you can understand my question, Mr. Chairman, that is my last question.
If you don’t answer me properly, I will not ask again.
Chairman Mr. Joanasie
Mr. Joanasie (interpretation): Can someone say it so that it is understandable? What does Iiqiiq mean?
An Hon. Member (interpretation): It means no.
Mr. Joanasie (interpretation): Even if all the applicants were approved, it wouldn’t deplete the amount that is set aside for the subsidy program?
That was my question. Would that deplete the amount that has been budgeted for this program, the $478,000?
Very few seniors are denied when they apply for the subsidy program. It’s based on the income of the applicant.
We are on Family Services.
Branch Summary. Income Assistance. Before I go on to the next person, I have recognized all members who have questions on this branch.
As Chairman’s discretion, I will only recognize members again on the page only if you have questions that haven’t already been asked.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon. If I ask some questions that were asked already, I’m sure you will stop me.
I will start off with a question on page 124 in regard to income support.
My colleague was asking questions about people being denied income support. There is an appeal process in place.
Who sits on the appeal board?
The members of the (interpretation ends) Social Assistance Appeal Committee (interpretation) are Eleanor Macmillan from Sanikiluaq, Constance MacIntosh from Pond Inlet, Paul Fraser from Iqaluit, Corinne Gabriel from Rankin Inlet, and the executive members are Justin Joe Ferdinand from Kugluktuk, Jamie Mathews from Iqaluit, Tommy Aulatjut from Arviat, Zeke Ejesiak from Cape Dorset, Amy Kipsigak from Hall Beach, and Agatha Ikualaaq from Whale Cove.
I seem to hear two boards. I seem to hear of this committee and another one.
Do I understand that if I’m denied, I can go to the appeal board and if I get denied by the appeal board, then I can go to the executive committee?
Hon. Jeannie Ugyuk (interpretation): He didn’t hear the question from the member.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) My question was, I think I heard two groups of people or two appeal processes.
Do I understand correctly that I appeal to this group and if there is no satisfaction, there is another appeals group that I can appeal to? Is that my understanding?
Chairman: Minster Ugyuk.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Indeed, if I was living in abject poverty requiring help, I would apply to the income support office for assistance for myself and my family since the family is hungry and we are poor.
Let’s say that I went there at 9:00 in the morning and I was denied.
If I go to the board to appeal the denial, would the committee review the appeal in that same day?
They would have to put together an agenda to deal with each issue.
The reason for applying was due to my destitute situation where I went to the Department of Family Services since our family is hungry.
How many days would we have to wait for the appeal process to be completed to find out whether or not I am eligible for income assistance?
With respect to the appeal process, I will refer it to Brandon Grant.
Within the Act, we have up to 30 days to hear the appeal.
Now, we make every measure in place to ensure that we hear the appeals as soon as possible.
Our first level of the committee is all volunteers and they take their jobs very seriously and they hear the appeals as soon as they can.
We also have a provision within the Social Assistance Regulations to grant emergency assistance to those that are in a situation that the member describes.
That could be granted on a case-by-case basis.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In reality, this family would have starved in trying to wait 30 days for this appeal process.
After this 30-day period, if the family is still alive and we receive a negative response stating that our appeal was denied and we aren’t eligible for assistance and I approach the other appeal process, how many more days do I have to wait for a response?
I haven’t heard about the 30-day waiting period.
It was stated earlier that they try to hear the appeal as soon as possible and they have regular meetings.
I thank the board members for being available and they make sure that people have food to eat.
I will refer the (interpretation ends) second level of appeal (interpretation) and the timeframe to Brandon.
I believe that the time difference is 45 days based on the first appeal.
I want to be very clear as our members work very hard to hear the appeals as soon as they can, as well as there is the emergency provision to provide emergency support on a case-by-case basis.
I also want to make it clear too that our directorate staff as well review all cases to ensure that if we see any wrongdoing on the parts of the workers which we feel would benefit the client, we review those as soon as we receive the appeals coming in at the first level.
We take this work very seriously as well as our committee members take this work very seriously in trying to ensure that we make the process as quickly as possible for our clients.
Maybe the minister and I both don’t understand.
Your staff indicated that there is a 30-day limit, even if you didn’t hear it.
Maybe we can review the Blues tomorrow.
I heard that we can wait up to 30 days.
In an emergency situation, they can try to do that before 30 days. I also heard that I may have to wait up to 45 days, starving all the while. Due to my destitute situation, that was why I went to the office for assistance.
How can I word this properly?
Let’s say I have gone to your offices to make an application for assistance and my income status has to be verified.
Now this can reach up to 45 days, so I would starve for this amount of days due to not having a job or any help.
If I was again denied, does that mean the department has abandoned me since there are no agreements required for submitting applications?
Applicants are denied income support when they are making sufficient income.
They either get approved or denied social assistance every month based on the income they are making.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, the reason for approaching the office was due to the fact I am not making any income and require food.
It doesn’t work like that?
Hon. Jeannie Ugyuk (interpretation): People with no revenue at all get income support assistance.
With the denial of my application, your verification officers or investigators who verify whether I can be approved or not, what exactly are their job titles?
We know that when some people make sufficient income, they get refused income support.
If they are not happy about the refusal, they can go to the Social Assistance Appeal Committee.
They meet right away once they hear that they need to hold a meeting.
They hold regular meetings.
Perhaps I no longer understand the situation.
Minister, please remind me. Your staff member said that a person can wait up to 30 days.
They try to meet as soon as possible.
Also, you just said that once you get notified of a client, you try to meet right away.
Which of these statements are true?
We were just informed that a client can wait up to 30 days. Now you are saying that this board meets once they are notified.
That totally confuses me about the process now.
Hon. Jeannie Ugyuk (interpretation): I understood what Brandon Grant said. According to the policies, we can wait up to 30 days.
However, once we hear that they need to do an appeal process, they try to meet right away.
In this past year, 2014, there were 26 cases where we had to hold an appeal.
The committee meets many times a year.
I’ll just move on to something else. I will never agree with the (interpretation ends) Hon. Minister. (interpretation) We seem to have come to an agreement that we will never agree on this issue based on what was said because I believe the two statements that were made are different.
Those who conduct the hearings, what are their normal job positions?
Hon. Jeannie Ugyuk (interpretation): I personally don’t know what their actual job positions are in their home communities.
As a minister, you don’t know what their job positions are. Is that what I understand?
Hon. Jeannie Ugyuk (interpretation): No, I don’t know what they actually do in their home communities.
Is their sole responsibility to ensure that your department follows your policies or are they just there to defend the client?
They are advised about income support and they are told what the policies are.
If they get refused, they are told what the next step is.
Brandon Grant will further explain the appeal process.
The role of the appeal committee is to locate the facts of the case and to apply the rules and regulations of the social assistance program. After they have made a determination, they communicate the decision with the client.
I want to again stress that the client has the opportunity to call in and participate in the committee hearing so that they can state their case to the appeal committee.
If I understand this correctly, last year in 2014, or I forget which year you were referring to, there were 26 appeals.
Do I understand correctly that there were 26 appeals last year?
I don’t know what the exact figure is, but of those 26 appeals, how many were successful?
In 2014, there were 46 refusals that went to appeal. Brandon Grant can explain this further.
Only two have not been upheld from what I know of, but I can get the exact numbers to the members. At the second level, there hasn’t been a second level appeal so far this year.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Do I understand correctly that 98 percent of the appeals received confirmation of their refusal?
I was asking about exactly what role the (interpretation ends) appeal (interpretation) committee plays. From what I heard, they are just reviewing legal challenges, not the field I was looking at where a client is requesting assistance on their file.
Let me try a different tack.
Clients who access the income assistance programs come from all over the income spectrum.
It is generally the people who have no choice but to access the program and that is their only means of putting food on the table. Who is eligible for income support?
Let me ask this using an example.
Let’s say I have just turned 65 years old and I have no disposable income or any income at all.
Would I be eligible for income support as a (interpretation ends) pensioner?
In this case, you would be receiving a pension and I don’t believe they receive any income support, as they would get the Senior Citizen Supplementary Benefit.
The only means that I am aware of would be if they adopted a child and require additional support for their child.
Do I understand correctly that you don’t know if they are eligible for income support if they are 65 years and over?
It is based on income.
Eligibility for income support is based on the income of the client.
This leads to my next question. Any resident who is 65, with no income generated and no source of employment income, if they have a spouse who is younger and isn’t a pensioner, can the younger spouse qualify for income support?
If anyone applies for income support, we look at their income and if they didn’t make an income, then they’re eligible for income support.
My question is: if they have no income whatsoever, would they be eligible for income support?
Hon. Jeannie Ugyuk: Mr. Chairman, can we have a five-minute break, please.
Chairman: A five-minute break?
It’s up to you. Yes.
>>Committee recessed 17:23 and resumed at 17:38
Income support applicants are reviewed for eligibility before they are approved for support.
I’m not sure whether you can answer my question or not and we cannot ask a hypothetical question.
I know there is an actual case that occurred where an individual was denied because their spouse turned 65 years old.
Is there a policy where, if a spouse is 65 years old and the applicant is younger, they are denied income support even though they are not making any income?
As I stated before, anyone who comes to apply for income support, whether it’s the spouse, they look at the spouse’s income, they look at the amount of the money that they make per year, and we base the criteria on the income of an individual.
If an individual is denied, they can apply for an appeal.
The community income support workers are responsible for that.
This is a real actual fact; it’s not a hypothetical question I referred to actual fact.
A couple was denied when they applied for income support and this individual has asked for help from me. They were denied because the spouse was a pensioner even though the spouse did not work.
How come other members of the household who have turned 18 years old? How come they are eligible for income support when the spouse of the 65-year-old is not eligible?
I was wondering what the rationale is for that.
If you apply for income support and if you have a dependant, it’s based on what you are eligible for with your dependant. If you have income, your income is taken into consideration.
Your eligibility for that amount is taken off whatever income you have. Sometimes they are denied and sometimes they are supplemented if they are eligible.
Each case is different. Each person, each client is different.
All the clients have different circumstances.
If you have a dependant, your dependant… .
I don’t know how else to answer it.
We are on D-6.
Total Operations and Maintenance, to be Voted. $46,424,000.
Chairman: We’re on page D-7.
Under student financial assistance, FANS, I tried to ask this question earlier, and now is the appropriate time, so I’ll do that.
I know that FANS will pay for airline tickets for the students to go to school and that airline ticket is considered income. I have asked the Minister of Finance why before and he explained to me. Since you are viewing a whole bunch of policies, would it be possible to review that too so that you could pay for the airline ticket directly to the airline and that way, the student does not have to claim that money as income?
In theory, the student never got any money; they got their way paid to an educational institution.
For student loan funds, there is a policy. We are reviewing the policy and it can be included in the review.
If there were any changes to the criteria or the policy, we will inform my colleagues.
I don’t have very many questions, but I would like to ask about counsellors.
When I was in Rankin Inlet a few months ago, I went and visited the healing centre there and got to speak with some of the inmates at the healing centre.
I was wondering: when we talk about career development, have any employment counsellors ever gone to any of the jails to go talk to some of the inmates to try and help get their lives back on track, either to go back to school or to try and find employment?
Hon. Jeannie Ugyuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If they are invited, they can go there. I’m sure there is an instructor in Rankin Inlet.
I want to pass that message on because I think it’s important and it would be useful.
My other question and final question, we have a lot of young Nunavummiut who are either not in school or not employed.
For example, in Iqaluit here, if you go to the NorthMart Store and go have a coffee, you see a lot of young people around and they are there all day.
I was thinking that perhaps the department could take their career development counsellors from time to time down there instead just to try and make some contact with some of these people that feel intimidated to go into an office.
I was wondering if your department staff had ever given that any thought, to go out to where the people are hanging out to try and see what can be done to help them to get back to school or to find some kind of employment of any kind.
We have asked the career development officers to visit the schools more frequently than they did before. We feel they weren’t seeing students often enough.
Once students see the career development officer more often, that should improve things for the students. I’m sure my officials are listening and are paying attention.
I believe I have just a couple of questions under this line.
One thing that Nunavut has done in the past and still does to this day is encouraging apprenticeship opportunities.
We’ve had some programs in the past like the Nunavut Housing Trust, which had some specific goals within it with achieving apprenticeship and helping our young apprentices or sometimes even older apprentices achieve the hours that they need to carry on their progressive levels within whatever field that they’re in.
What has the department seen with regard to statistics on the number of apprentices, let’s say, in the last five-year period since the Nunavut Housing Trust?
Has there been an increase in intake of apprentices with the trade school in Rankin Inlet or have the numbers been stable or decreasing?
There are 110 individuals who are in trade school.
We use the career development officers and if they want to take on an apprentice, we fund half of their wages.
Maybe if the minister can just elaborate on the trend on the numbers of apprentices.
As an example, over the last five years, what has the trend in apprenticeship numbers been?
We don’t have numbers for the last few years. As soon as we get them, we can let the member know.
I believe I brought this up in the past and may have been minister responsible for the Department of Education.
When we were in Kugluktuk for our Full Caucus retreat when we were first elected, I had the pleasure of speaking with the instructor of the pre-trades pilot program in the high school there.
He spoke very highly of the program. A number of students graduate high school ready to go directly into some kind of apprenticeship field.
Is this something that the Career Development Division is looking at expanding upon?
The budget we are requesting here will help those that want to further their careers. The Act and regulations are not new and we are in the process of updating them at Family Services. Currently, we are searching for a career development officer who would keep tabs on where the students are at.
In the Kitikmeot, there are ten apprentices, three from Gjoa Haven, two from Kugluktuk, and two from Cambridge Bay. This is just an example of apprentices.
In the Kivalliq, there are 58 apprentices.
In the Baffin, there are 42 apprentices. In total, there are 110 apprentices across Nunavut.
I look forward to getting a little bit further details on that maybe at a later date.
My next question, I had asked last year around the same time regarding the summer student program and providing employment opportunities that complement academic programs of students. Where I was getting at last year is summer student programs… .
I realize the Department of Family Services doesn’t oversee that program, but at the time, she had stated that they are going to work closely with the responsible department with regard to students.
The point I was trying to get at last year and the point I’m still trying to get at today is FANS knows every post-secondary student in Nunavut and what they are taking.
When the summer student requests come out and applications come out, there still has not been any real focus on meeting the educational needs with the employment needs so that if you’ve got an engineering student, as an example, they are put into a position at CGS or at Qulliq Energy or something of that nature that directs the employment towards the academic studies to really benefit the student and benefit the department or agency that they’re going to be working for of having a semi-skilled worker available to them.
Maybe the minister could update me on what has progressed in the past year to promote that endeavour.
If a student wants to work during the summer, they have to give notice.
This also has to be considered when the student has a summer break or if they want to do any work, they have to try to get some assistance on their own.
I’ll have Brandon Grant supplement my response.
I think the member’s idea is a fantastic idea and it is definitely something I will look into.
I think, across the government, there could be a good, coordinated approach to match our students with the programs and department areas in which they would be best suited for.
Over the past year, our department has supported students in trying to make the best placements as possible in income assistance. We have supported an Inuit Development Program student around the policy area because that was the area in which he had interest in for a career.
We try to make efforts as a department to have a good fit for our students in areas in which their interests are in pursuing later on.
I will look into the matter for the member.
I believe one of the responses last year was along a similar line, that it was a good idea, but again, I haven’t seen any action on it.
I appreciate the challenges that the department goes through, but to me, this seems like there is a summer student binder of resumés where departments can go in and pick and choose summer students out of.  It just seems to make so much sense to link employment opportunities with the educational backgrounds of these summer students that can really benefit them and us as a government or as public agencies.
I hope I’m not asking the same question next year.
Chairman: Thank you. That was just a comment. If you want to answer, Minister Ugyuk.
Hon. Jeannie Ugyuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We will work with human resources and we will give you an update once we have information to provide.
We’re on Branch Summary. Family Services. Career Development.
Total Operations and Maintenance, to be Voted. $20,359,000.
Chairman: Back to D-3. Department Summary.
Family Services. Detail of Expenditures. Total Operations and Maintenance, to be Voted. $127,359,000.
Minister, closing comments? Minister Ugyuk.
Hon. Jeannie Ugyuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank my colleagues for the questions they asked.
The activities of the Department of Family Services affect the people of Nunavut and we thank those volunteers in the communities. They really help out.
I also thank my staff and the people in the Department of Family Services.
Sergeant-at-Arms, please assist the... .
I would now like to ask the Minister responsible for Justice if he has officials that he would like to appear before the committee.
Bill 16 – Appropriation (Operations & Maintenance) Act, 2015-2016 – Justice – Consideration in Committee
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Good afternoon. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
With me this afternoon to my right is my Deputy Minister, Elizabeth Sanderson, and to my left is our Director of Corporate Services, Scott Marriott.
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): I am pleased to appear before the Committee of the Whole to present the Department of Justice’s main estimates for operations and maintenance for the 2015-16 fiscal year.
A total of $109 million is being requested for the operations of the Department of Justice in the coming fiscal year.
This is a $3.3 million increase from the 2014-15 fiscal year.
As members will recall, last year saw the addition of 24 new caseworkers and two cooks for Makigiarvik.
Given that the facility would be open for only part of the year, this committee was asked to approve half a year’s compensation and benefits to train the new correctional caseworkers and open the facility. Today’s request of $1.6 million will allow the facility to operate year-round.
To reflect the growing costs of circuit courts, such as airfare, accommodation, interpreters, and court reporters, and to help manage family support orders, the department requests an additional $1 million.
Under law enforcement, the RCMP has requested an increase of $463,000 for the installation of closed circuit systems in up to five detachments, purchase of extra police vehicles, and to reflect the growing cost of leases.
With the growing number of departmental staff, particularly in corrections, the department requests $118,000 to hire a human resource coordinator.
The addition of this position will allow the department to advertise vacant positions sooner and manage requests for leave.