EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
I guess I just see this as another form of capital projects that are being given out without going through this assembly, without going through the caucus, the house and to me it just doesn't seem overly fair.
Chairperson (interpretation): I think that was just a comment.
Did you want to make a response Mr. Minister.
Mr. Chairman, first of all let me reassure all members of this house that it's not the intent of the government to circumvent any of the processes here.
When the legislation came forward as you all know, from the Government of the Northwest Territories to Nunavut, there was an assumption made that the Authorization Act was one of them.
We found out subsequently, after our session in this past spring, that wasn't the case, that we required legislation on a yearly basis because this is a loaning authority and it has to come back on a yearly basis for approval to this House.
So that was an oversight and that's why we're here today. But by the same token, we knew that these municipalities required assistance, so we made that decision to go ahead, recognizing that we would have to bring in the legislation subsequent to that.
Now, obviously, I can't dictate what the committee wants to do.  If they were to decide for whatever reason not to pass this legislation it would impact on all our municipalities, not just the ones that we've made commitments to, then as a government we would have to revisit it and see what remedies we would be able to put in place to assist those municipalities where we've made commitments and to assist those municipalities that will be coming this fiscal year for additional needs.
Mr. Kattuk (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, in regards to this Loan Authorization Act, I would like to approve it because the Nunavut Government will be helping out the Hamlets in the Nunavut area.
I can use my community as an example where we were in dire straits with money and it gives the authority to help the communities and since we were elected as Members of Legislative Assembly, we have heard about Clyde River who went into a deficit situation so I would like to state my support for this Act.
Mr. McLean: We realize, and I don't want to sound like I'm picking on the capital, but there's unparalleled economic growth in this community.
I can attest to the homeless shelter here and the people that are in it because they can't find affordable housing in Iqaluit.
That could be for different reasons and I know probably that Iqaluit is stretched for dollars to build a subdivision this year.
And we all know that Iqaluit will probably double in population in the next four to five years.
It's growth, it's the capital and there's going to be more pressure put on this government to bring them up to the standards that other capital cities have.
And that gets into where we're going next year, and the years following.
Is Iqaluit going to be constantly coming to this government and looking for a loan and is this government going to say yes or are they going to say enough is enough we lent you 20 or 30 million dollars over the last five or six years.
I have no problems with this Loan Authorization Act, I think it's a useful tool in communities and I've lived in them for the last 28 years.
I have seen the financial difficulties at the hamlet level where you get an SAO that's really good, and I experienced it in my community a couple of times in the last 20 years, where you get a real good SAO, he's fiscally responsible and then he leaves and things fall apart.
And that's happened probably in more cases than enough.
Then this Loan Authorization Act will come and appease the banks and the municipality gets a debt reduction plan back on line with the help of Municipal and Community Affairs.
My reluctance on this one, and it's general reluctance, and I'm not picking on the capital, but when does it stop.
Is there going to be a point where we say no to Iqaluit if it's 10 million dollars next year, 5 million and 5 million.
I know they're paying it back but it's coming out of general coffers and yes you will get it back, I'm sure you will because there's a vehicle there to get it back.
But, I think we can utilize that money in different areas and housing seems to be one.
If this community is going to double and triple in the next 10 years, more people are going to move in, there's going to be more of a tax base and I think in a few years and I'll be here for the next couple of years, and I'll echo this next year, is that this municipality or this town should start utilizing the banks with us maybe guaranteeing the loan. That way we don't have to give them money out of our general coffers.
And there's nothing wrong with the government guaranteeing a loan for a municipality if we go that far.
But I know of people's borrowing power, mine is probably different from yours Mr. Ng, but what I'm saying is that yes, this Loan Authorization Act is good for communities that do get into trouble financially through no fault of their own.
But my fear is that this monster could get out of control in the next few years and much needed capital dollars will be used on subdivisions and streets and pavement and things like that.
That's my fear.
I want it to be used where the need is most.
And we hear that all the time.
Put the money where the need is and I'm not begrudging Iqaluit, I think Iqaluit's got to grow up and go to the banks and start utilizing them with us guaranteeing them.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Mr. Chairman, just to reiterate again, this isn't a direct cash expenditure from the perspective of coming out of our operating and maintenance funds.
It shows up that you advanced it, it's out there as a loan, is outstanding which is a receivable.
I want to stress that this is a loan.
It's all repayable and I can appreciate the members comments about when does it stop.
Obviously if a municipality, a taxed based municipality such as Iqaluit, were to get to the point where it was thought that the possibilities of repayment were to be jeopardised, where we're assuming too much liabilities, too much long term debt, then that would be one of the factors that would have to be taken into consideration at that time.
But right now I can't speak about what their future needs are or any municipalities future needs for that matter.
We can only deal with what comes to us in this current fiscal year Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Iqaqrialu.  Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Chairman.
Listening to the comments from the Members of the Legislative Assembly, I'm very envious that they're financially well off. I'm very envious that they make comments like that. Listening to the comments around the table, I think that there's something wrong when we hear comments made around the table pointing at communities.
As Mr. Minister was saying, we have to renew this act every year. I believe the fiscal year end is March 31st and that's what I understand. Is that correct Mr. Minister?
I'll make another comment afterwards. Thank you Mr. Chairman.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you. Mr. Ng.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Yes Mr. Chairman, the member is correct, March 31st is the government's fiscal year end. Thank you.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Iqaqrialu.  Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Chairman.
In regards to the loans, I'm sure they'll be up to 15 to 20 years to pay off their loan but the Nunavut Government will be reviewing this act every year.
Is that going to be the procedure, where we have to renew the act every year and the communities will have 15 to 20 years for re-payment of their loan.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Thank you Mr. Chairman, yes the member is right in that I had indicated that this Loan Authorization Act would have to be repeated every year because it's a spending authority requested by the government from the House.
He is correct in that any loans that might be expended or authorized under this act with repayment schedules spread out over 15 to 20 years, that's where the accounting comes in on a yearly basis in respect to a loan outstanding and a receivable because of that.
Again, I have another question.
If we approve this act, will the Nunavut communities or hamlets be given a copy of this act so they know that there are loans available from the Nunavut Government?
I don't think we'd necessarily give them a copy of the act but through Community Government and Transportation, their staff would deal with the municipalities.
Once they identify a need from a specific municipality, they'll assist them in putting together an application, and evaluating and taking part in the evaluation of how that need can be addressed for each municipality based on case by case basis.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you. Mr. Iqaqrialu.
When we were still under the GNWT, the Department of MACA never got that information out to the communities.
If we're going to be submitting this to Community Government and Transportation and if that information isn't given out to the communities, they won't know that this loan is available.
Are we going to be getting this information out there so that they'll know there's money available.
Chairperson (interpretation): Just for further clarification, we're discussing Bill 1 and we're not going to be getting into the fine details.
The question here now is the Loan Authorization Act and sending the information out there is not part of the discussion.
I would like to go back to Bill 1.
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Chairman, I understand exactly where you're coming from and I'm glad that you made that comment.
During my term, I know that I'll be a part of reviewing these acts.
Chairperson (interpretation): Any further comments or questions?
I believe that we may not have a quorum.
Nancy, if you could count the members.
We'll take a ten minute break because we don't have a quorum.
Chairperson (interpretation): We can proceed with our session.
Mr. Iqaqrialu do you have any more comments.
I just wanted to make another comment.
I know that our community has been running in a deficit situation for quite some time now.
I especially want to say that when you pay part of your loan or your deficit, only part of it, your deficit starts to accumulate.
On top of your deficit the interest starts building and your deficit starts building up if you don't pay the bill in whole.
If the municipalities would prefer to pay for their loan all together, perhaps after the bill has been enacted, would it be possible for the communities to repay their loan in full if they wanted to.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Mr. Chairman as I have indicated, once the repayment schedules have been worked out there is a lot of flexibility in the loaning or the lending of funds to municipalities and like I indicated earlier we are trying to support them.
So if there is a desire to prepay or pay in advance, or accelerate the payments that is certainly something we would be more than happy to accommodate.
I will try and elaborate again.
If a municipality gets a loan and they get another loan on top of it they would have to repay the first loan and if they get another they also have to pay for that, the previous deficit and also the loan. So in my community we were in a deficit situation and on top of that we got a loan.
So the interest accumulates when we don't pay for our loan according to the procedure.
When the municipality proposes to pay back the loan all at one time it is easier and it is not as dangerous.
So perhaps I made myself clear for now.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Minister would you like to respond.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Thank you Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, just to advise members that when the government lends out money under this Act we charge a lower interest rate than the commercial institutions would.
In the case of municipalities, to meet whatever needs they have based on specific proposals that they have for loans.
I don't want to be the only one taking the floor and I apologize for having the floor.
I am sure that the interest rate is lower than the commercial banks but then again, they might have a loan at the bank and they have to make those payments and they have to pay that loan to the Nunavut Government.
That is creating the problem for the Hamlet Council who owe money to financial institutions and also to the government.
I hope that is clear.
Chairperson (interpretation): I believe there is a response, Mr. Anawak.
I know exactly where Mr. Iqaqrialu is coming from.
When we help the Hamlets, of course we give out loans to some of the Hamlets, that was the policy of the Government of the NWT.
We have to help the communities because they might go bankrupt.
We give financial support to the Hamlets and the Nunavut Government and the Hamlet Councils work together so that they can repay their loan.
It would be good if they could keep up with their loan payments, but possibly through mismanagement or if there is breakage in their equipment, they could very likely come back to the government and ask for another loan.
It is good when they have one loan but then there are always unforeseen expenditures that might come up.
So we might possibly review their loan again.
We want to work closely with the Hamlet when we give them a loan but there are unforeseen circumstances that might arise and if that particular community wants another loan because of unforeseen circumstances we will review it again.
Chairperson (interpretation): I have no more names on my list so if there are no further questions, we'll go clause by clause.
Is that the committee's wish.
Chairperson (interpretation): Bill 1, clause 1, do you agree?
Chairperson (interpretation): Clause two, do you agree?
Chairperson (interpretation): Clause three, agreed?
Chairperson (interpretation): Clause four, agreed?
Chairperson (interpretation): Clause five, do you agree?
Chairperson (interpretation): Clause six, do you agree?
Chairperson (interpretation): Clause seven, agreed?
Chairperson (interpretation): Clause eight, agreed?
Chairperson (interpretation): Clause nine, agreed?
Chairperson (interpretation): Bill as a whole, do you agree?
Chairperson (interpretation): Bill 1, Loan Authorization Act, 1999/2000, do you agree to the bill as a whole?
Thank you for making your presentation Mr. Ng and your staff.
You did the responses all by yourself without the help of your staff.
Do you have any closing remarks to make.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: I would like to thank the committee members and thank the staff that came today.
We have completed bill 1, what is the committee's wish.
Mr. Akesuk (interpretation): I would like to go ahead with the next item.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Akesuk would like to go onto the next item.
Bill 4, Minister of Sustainable Development.
We can't hear you very well without the ear aids.
Chairperson (interpretation): Would the minister like to make a presentation regarding bill 4. Mr. Anawak.
My colleague is having a hard time finding his paper.
It is bill 4.
My colleague can't find his pages, could you wait one minute please.
I am going to be saying the same thing that I said this morning.
This is in regards to the Legal Services Board.
There is one and they work for Nunavut, but their present name is the NWT Legal Services Board.
The purpose of this bill is to amend the Legal Services Act to provide for a Nunavut Legal Services Board to start on April 1, 2000.
The staffing process for the executive director position is currently underway and once that is done other staff will be hired and the office itself will be set up in Gjoa Haven.
The plan is to have the office staffed and operational prior to April 1, 2000.
The Standing Committee on Community Empowerment and Sustainable Development made certain recommendations to alter the draft legislation prior to it's introduction to the legislature.
The first recommendation was to have a lawyer appointed by the minister on the nomination of the Law Society of Nunavut and for each region one person appointed by the Minister on the nomination of the regional committees, when the regional committees exist.
I have made those changes to this bill as requested by the standing committee.
The standing committee's second recommendation refers to the clause that enables the minister to appoint up to two additional members to the board.
The recommendation states that there be up to three additional members instead of two.
We did discuss this but I didn't include that because the regions will be represented through the regional committees who will each be nominating a representative for appointment and Nunavut's practice of widely consulting and advertising for appointments to boards and agencies will ensure that the appointments of these additional board members would fairly represent Nunavut.
Those are the reasons I didn't make those changes.
This bill to amend the Legal Services Act is very important because it is a reflection of our governments commitment to take full responsibility for our affairs.
Nunavut needs it's own Legal Services Board.
Finally, bill 4 is consistent with our commitment to put in place structures that meet the needs of the people of Nunavut.
I can move up to the witness table if you would like.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Anawak, you can continue and if you have staff that you would like to invite.
Thank you for going to the witness table.
If you introduce your staff first of all.
Hon. Jack Anawak (interpretation): Thank you, on my left is Nora Sanders, she is my Deputy Minister for the Department of Justice and on my right Mark Spakowski who reviews the legislation.
Chairperson (interpretation): Welcome.
I now open the floor for comments or questions.
In your opening statements you said that a lawyer would be appointed on the nomination of the law society of Nunavut.
My question then on this issue is in regards to Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit.
We have stated that we were going to start implementing Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit and Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit is not well known by lawyers.
We would like to start implementing Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit.
How are you going to implement Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit into the legal system.
Chairperson (interpretation): Anawak.
This could be used to start implementing Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit but we need one lawyer from the Nunavut Law Society to nominate a lawyer to sit on that board.
The rest of the board members would be from the communities and they don't necessarily need to be lawyers.
They won't be lawyers.
This Legal Services Board, for example, the NWT Legal Services Board has some Inuit and a lawyer.
There might possibly be four or five board members who would be from the Nunavut communities.
Not necessarily lawyers, we would appoint these persons with Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit in mind.
Questions or comments.
If there is nothing further.
I am sure that it is in your opening comments, but with the NWT Legal Services Board, Mr. Chairman, now that the NWT has been divided into two, there is now the NWT and Nunavut.
Because we are two territories now I am sure that there will be a reduction in staff.
How much reduction will there be.
I am sure that there was a lot more staff when they represented the whole NWT, but since there was division, is there going to be a reduction in the number of staff.
Hon. Jack Anawak (interpretation): Yes, our staff, I apologize, our staff will stay in Nunavut even if we split up on April 1, 2000.
There's going to be no change in the number.
Chairperson (interpretation): That's it Mr. Puqiqnak.
I want to thank the Minister for considering the recommendations that the standing committee made regarding this particular issue.
Even though the minister didn’t totally accept all of the recommendations, he did go half way.
With the Legal Services Board we will think about your recommendations but we will always give you an opportunity to make your comments before we make appointments.
Chairperson (interpretation): Any further comments.
If there are no further comments we will go clause by clause.
Bill four – An Act to Amend the Legal Services Act.
Chairperson (interpretation): Clause 2, agreed?
Chairperson (interpretation): Clause 3, agreed?
Chairperson (interpretation): Final page, clause four, do you agree?
Chairperson (interpretation): Going back to the beginning, bill 4, do you agree to the bill as a whole.
Thank you for making this very brief, I would like to thank you Mr. Anawak and also your staff for taking the time.
I don't know if I mispronounced your name, but I would like to thank Sue Cooper. At this time, what is the committee's wish.
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): While we are waiting for the Speaker I would like to take a brief break and when we find him we will come back.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Iqaqrialu was that a motion.
The Speaker is coming.
Speaker (interpretation): Going back to the orders of the day.
Item 20, report of the committee of the whole.
I wish to report that your committee has been reviewing Bill 1 and it has been concluded and the Bill is ready for Third Reading.
Mr. Speaker, I move that the Report of the Committee of the Whole be concurred with.
Speaker: Thank you, Mr. Irqittuq.
Speaker: Mr. Irqittuq.
Mr. Irqittuq (interpretation): I was just reading through what I have in front of me, Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Bill 1 and Bill 4 .
Is the motion seconded.
Mr. Ng seconds the motion.
Speaker: Item 21.
Bill 2 - An Act to Amend the Workers’ Compensation Act
Hon. Kelvin Ng: I move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Iqaluit West that Bill 2 - An Act to Amend the Workers’ Compensation Act, be read for the Third time.
Speaker: Thank you, Mr. Ng. The motion is in order.
Bill 2 has had Third Reading.
Item 22 - Orders of the Day. Mr. Clerk.
Meeting of the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Services at half past five today in the Nanuq Boardroom.
Tomorrow morning, meeting of full caucus at 9 o’clock in the Nanuq Boardroom.
Orders of the Day, Thursday October 28, 1999 at half past one:
10 Petitions.
Bill 5 - Supplementary Appropriation, Act No. 1, 1999/2000.
Minister’s Statement 22- 1(3)
Third Reading of Bills:
Bill 1 – Loan Authorization Act 1999/2000;
Bill 4 - An Act to Amend the Legal Services Act.
Speaker: Thank you, Mr. Clerk.
This House stands adjourned until Thursday October 28, 1999 at 1:30 p.m.
>>House Adjourned at 5.13 p.m.
THURSDAY, OCTOBER 28, 1999
Pages 185- 226
Opening Prayer 185
Ministers’ Statements 185
Members’ Statements 190
Point of Order 191
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery 192
Oral Questions 193
Petitions 208
Reports of Standing and Special Committees 209
Report of Committees on Review of Bills 210
Tabling of Documents 211
Notices of Motions 211  Motions 212
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters 213
Report of the Committee of the Whole 223
Third Reading of Bills 223  Orders of the Day 224
Thursday, October 28, 1999 185
29 - 1(3): Budget Update (Ng) 185
30 - 1(3): Elders in Nunavut (Havioyak) 186
31 - 1(3): Millennium Scholarship (Arvaluk) 187
32 - 1(3): Nunavut Sealing Strategy (Kilabuk) 188
33 - 1(3): Corrections Planning Committee Report (Anawak) 189
49 - 1(3): Sanikiluaq Elder's Advice to MLAs (Kattuk) 190
50 - 1(3): Opposition to Time Zone (Irqittuq) 190
51 - 1(3): Recognition of Elders (Anawak) 191
52 - 1(3): Recognition of Elder (Alakannuark) 191
74 - 1(3): Cigarette Smoking (McLean) 193
75 - 1(3): Health Boarding Homes (Iqaqrialu) 194
76 - 1(3): Budget (O'Brien) 197
77 - 1(3): Public Consultations (Kattuk) 199
78 - 1(3): Outpost Camps for Offenders (Irqittuq) 200
79 - 1(3): Staff Issues with Decentralization (Nutarak) 201
80 - 1(3): Project Surname (Puqiqnak) 202
81 - 1(3): Kimmirut's Water Reservoir (Akesuk) 203  82 - 1(3): Assistance to Clyde River for Power Costs (Iqaqrialu) 203
83 - 1(3): Name Change for Culture, Language, Elders & Youth (Nutarak) 205
84 - 1(3): Consultations by Ministers (Kattuk) 205
85 - 1(3): Zero Tolerance (McLean) 206
86 - 1(3): Proposals for Culture, Language, Elders & Youth Funding (Puqiqnak) 206
87 - 1(3): Cape Dorset Water Reservoir Study (Akesuk) 207
88 – 1 (3): Community Freezer Repairs (McLean) 208
Response to Petition 01 – 1 (3) 208
Petition 06 – 1 (3): Opposition to Time Zone Change (Irqittuq) 209
Petition 07 – 1 (3): Opposition to Time Zone Change (Irqittuq) 209
01 – 1 (3): Appointment of Languages Commissioner 209
Reports of Committee on the Review of Bills