EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
So do I understand it that it is not the minister’s staff then?
I still say that the centre was not closed. Its use is different.
Using the policy of best practices and so I support that decision that was made because the decision was made for a reason and not for a meaningless reason.
Answer again. I’m not talking about the ongoing operation of it I was just asking who was responsible for making that decision relating to when the change took place?
Did it go to cabinet at that time or do it not?
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I’m sorry for not having been clear to my fellow Member of the Legislative Assembly.
I would like Mr. Dudding to answer that.
To answer the member’s question, the decision did not go to cabinet. Again the group home is not closed. The population served is changed.
Those kinds of decisions with regard to who the program is serving and the nature of the services that are going to be provided in the program is something, as the minister has pointed, is done with senior staff and the deputy’s office.
I hope that you can understand my question, because that is not what I’m asking about.
I’m not asking about whether it was closed or not.
I was asking who the final say and who determined that the situation would change to the group home?
I understood what he was asking that the Director of Child and Family Services reached that decision.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): I will ask the question a different way, Mr. Chairman.
So when the minister just said “yes, this is excellent,” and then just signed it off.
Do I understand it that way?
I did not sign it.
Since the minister did not sign off on it, so there is not a final decision yet?
While we were in the Third Assembly, and while you were chairing the Standing Committee on Health, there was a discussion about it, and that is the way I remember it, during the discussions of the operations and maintenance stage.
We sit as chairs.
There was not a major concern then when the decision was beginning to be arrived at that time.
My question got a skewed in red tape.
It is very annoying when you get different answer to imagined questions.
I just simply wanted to understand whether the minister may approve that, but I guess it was more complicated than that.
We are on D-5.
Before I ask a question, on page 114 in the English, and in the Inuktitut 123, in regard to Support Services, Social Advocacy at the bottom of page 114, it says that, “this program provides grants and contributions that support initiatives for persons with disabilities and women in Nunavut.
So I would like to ask if men don’t ever receive such support financially through this. Is that what it means?
We work with Qulliq Status of Women Council because they deal with women’s issues. I know that it would only come from there.
Mr. Enook: And again, (interpretation) I’m just asking: are there no support services for men?
I won’t answer it here right now, but I will take it as notice and I will provide an answer at a later date.
What a great joy to be expecting something.
My final question is still on page D-5 under Children and Family Services. After the recent division of the Department of Health and Social Services, it would get confusing which department is dealing with what. Therefore, let me tell you, Mr. Chairman, that if you don’t think it is appropriate to ask that question at this time, let me know.
It’s referring to children and family services.
I would like to attempt to ask.
You transferred a great number of families in Nunavut, especially when they have difficulties, bereavement, or have long-term resentment, and sometimes the parents go through very difficult times. I’m trying to ask. It could be under mental health and you may not be able to answer me.
Would there be money for families to use for obtaining support due to difficulties in their minds and in their lives?
Mr. Chairman, I’ll leave it at your hands.
I’ll have Peter Dudding answer the question related to children and family services.
Bereavement counselling services would normally be provided through the mental health services from the Department of Health.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): I don’t think my question was clear enough.
When families try to look after their children, they go through very difficult times, especially when they have children who, for various reasons, have difficulties. They have to keep looking after their children.
I’m trying to ask you, thinking that maybe you have responsibility over it. I kind of think that maybe the Department of Health has responsibility for it.
Are there situations where families… ? Is there funding if they need to leave difficult situations like this in their homes? Is there any funding so that parents like this could take a break from having to deal with difficult children or difficult family members?
Hon. Jeannie Ugyuk (interpretation): I think Peter Dudding now understands the question.
I understood his answer previously, but I’ll have Peter Dudding respond to the question.
Mr. Dudding: Thank you for the further explanation.
I do understand the question more fully now.
In those circumstances, certainly, the Department of Family Services’ Children and Family Services Branch would work in providing counselling services to those families and other supports.
One of the supports the member referred to was something we call respite care, which would be temporary assistance to that family to care for the children. We do that under a whole range of circumstances. If, for example, a family member becomes ill and is unable temporarily to care for their child we will perform that kind of respite care which would have the child moving to a temporary foster home for example under a voluntary services agreement.
Typically our services would be ones that are focused on services directed to the child rather than directed toward the parent in that regard.
We wouldn’t be providing monies directly to the parent just to be clear about that. We would provide assistance to the parent in caring for their child.
I would like to elaborate on my question and knowing that I might not get an answer perhaps my question may not be nice or appropriate.
If somebody has to be moved from their home, who would decide on moving these family members?
The social worker, following policy and procedure, they would have to properly follow the procedure. They can only do that by following the proper procedure.
The social workers have authorities according to the policies and if they have evidence or have seen something that is happening and according to the policies and procedures the children can be removed.
If a child is moved by social services who makes the decision as to when that child goes back to the parents?
Thank you to the Member of the Legislative Assembly for Tununiq for posing that question.
If a child is taken by social services the child would be taken care of by social services and counselled.
We are not supposed to keep them forever.
If the child becomes able or ready to go back to the parents then as soon as the child is ready to go back to the parents according to our policy then we have to give them back to the parents.
Everything is under procedure. They get taken under procedure then they get given back under procedure. It’s always very good when a child is able to be given back to the parents.
If a child is taken by social services, does the child have an advocate or a procedure? Are the parents told, “only if you do these certain things can the child be given back to you.”
It is up to the parents. We leave it up to the parents.
I am confused again. Maybe because of our dialectal differences.
If you take someone’s child, do you tell the parents that they have to do these things, and only if we like the way they were done, then we can give their child back to them?
Do you do that? Are you allowed to do that?
There are different circumstances where children get taken away: some of them through abuse, sexual abuse, or neglect. There are different circumstances.
The one that used the most is the removal of very young children. They work through an agreement with the parent and the social worker.
There are three criteria that are used to take children. One is the Voluntary Service Agreement, where the parent and the social workers agree on it.
The other is the Plan of Care, if there is an agreement that a child is in danger, due to that, the child will have to be with Family Services until that danger has been removed.
The third one is rarely used, which is through court.
With that last one it’s very hard to tell when the child can be brought back. Our department always has the intention of giving that child back to the parents.
Let me ask again if the child is taken away, what is your basis?
I’m asking this because we’ve heard many times in many places that parents lost their kids because of someone’s lie.
I’ve seen that, myself. I won’t get into that, though.
Whose word do you consider the strongest when you’re talking about taking a child away?
Who would be the most believable, the way you’re asking.
From my experience, the child’s body would be medically checked. That is how some of it is based, or if a witness calls us. There are many different reasons.
The social worker doesn’t just go around looking for children to apprehend, only if someone from the community, because of their compassion, reports them to the social workers, and then they have to investigate.
Maybe I’ll ask another difficult question.
If anyone reports that they suspect that a child is being mistreated, or not taken care of properly. Does everything you hear, do you always investigate every report whether it’s true or not?
From my own knowledge if we are talking about a child the files are not open until we … (interpretation ends) We don’t open a file if we find out that it’s misleading. Lots of files don’t open that way.
We can only open the file if it has facts and go from there.
Branch Summary. Family Services. Children and Family Services.
Total Operations and Maintenance, to be Voted. $53,606,000.
Moving on to the next page. Family Services. Branch Summary.
Total Operations… Mr. Rumbolt.
I have a few questions about income support.
To start it off, I guess, I would like to find out the process of issuing income support in the community. I know many years ago the process was the client went in and the assessment was done.
If they are entitled to income support, a portion is made in cash to the client and the remainder is usually issued to either the Co-Op or the Northern Store depending on the choice of the client. Is this still the process today?
Income support is under review.
We are following what the hamlets want us to do. We are trying to work with the Department of Justice to see how we can improve income support because there are problems with it.
I understand that it’s under review but I’m asking what the current system is.
Is it like I sated where a client gets to choose which store they get to shop at?
If there are cases where a client wants to shop elsewhere, for example, if they can get decent rates from a southern supplier and wanted to order food so they can get cheaper and healthier food for their family is that option available for clients?
I would like Deputy Minister Awa to respond to that.
In regards to your question, we still use the same system and your other question, the person that is receiving income support can either go to the Co-Op or the Northern Store or if that person doesn’t want to use that money in the community they have the freedom to order from outside the community but we would have to set something up with that person.
If that person doesn’t have a credit card then we can … the person would have to get a credit card to use to pay for the food the person wants to order then the income support can be put into that credit card account and then they can order the food they want.
I thank the minister’s staff for the explanation.
IN smaller communities usually there’s only one person who has signing authority for income support and there are times whether it be through personnel change or if the income support worker is not in the community, where there is no one around to sign cheques at the time.
What is the procedure when this situation happens?
There is a director in each region. It is the director’s responsibility, if there is an income support worker in a near community that they could be sent to another community to work on income support assistance.
Mr. Chairman, I’m requesting to take a five-minute break. I would appreciate it.
Chairman (interpretation): Yes. We will take a 10 minute break.
>>Committee recessed at 17:22 and resumed at 17:34
Just to refresh, the last question I asked about what happens in a case where there’s no signing authority in a community and the minister’s response was that usually, there’s a director that takes care of this issue and they usually get somebody from a neighbouring community, but sometimes we don’t have neighbouring communities that are very close to us.
In cases where it does happen and we do not have a signing authority in our communities, income support people come in for an appointment and they expect to get their money for food, I guess not today, they probably wanted it two days before.
What is the waiting period when a situation arises where they have to wait for a signing authority to come from another community?
I thank the member from Sanikiluaq for asking that question.
A majority of the communities have backup. I believe that there’s no backup for Sanikiluaq. I’ll have my officials write a letter of correspondence to explain further to the member the process for income support when there’s no signing authority.
I wonder if the minister could explain why she has to write me a letter to explain why and why she can’t explain the process right now.
Almost all communities have backup workers.
I’m assuming that Sanikiluaq doesn’t have a backup worker. I will write to him on the procedure of what is done when there is no worker.
I’m not stating for a fact that we do not have a backup signing authority in our community. I know we have a signing authority in our community right now, but in the past, there have been instances where there has been no signing authority in our community and it seemed to take a long time for people to get their income support from the time of their appointment to the time they could actually spend money.
That’s what I’m asking. How long a process is this?
We don’t know exactly how many days the clients wait.
Since I don’t know, I can’t respond to your question.
The point I’m trying to get across is there are times that we don’t have signing authorities in our communities and in the smaller communities, it probably happens more than you may think. I would like to see a way to have it corrected so that it doesn’t happen again in the future because people who are on income support rely on that.
They don’t feel that they should have to wait for days or even weeks in order to get their income support.
I’ll just leave that as a comment.
Following my list of names, Mr. Enook.
Since we’re on page D-6, Income Assistance, I know that the minister has stated previously that the Income Support Program will be reviewed and that we will wait patiently for the review to be completed.
First of all, I’d like to when you expect to complete the review?
For Income Support, it’s supposed to be completed by 2015.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): If I can ask two questions at once, Mr. Chairman?
You set the date earlier on to complete the review so that it can be completed sooner.
In the Income Support Assistance Program what are you going to be reviewing?
I know that they’re reviewing the Social Assistance Act.
My second question is you can consider to have the review completed earlier on. Set the target date for this coming winter?
When we start working on legislation it costs money.
That’s why we’re doing that review.
As the minister had stated that the review will cost money. How much funding do you expect to expend for the review? Is it going to be reviewed by an independent consultant?
The review for income assistance is going to have many impacts, and going to be difficult to review.
Has your department made a decision as to how and where the review going to be done? Is the review going to be done within your department, or outside consultants?
My deputy minister will respond.
We are not sure how long or how difficult the review is going to be.
Today our Inuit employment rates is only at 62 percent and with that many vacant positions, perhaps we’ll need support from outside of the Department of Family Services.
Yes, we’ll need assistance from outside of the department because we don’t have enough staff within our department.
As the minister had stated, the Income Support Program will be reviewed.
It’s going to have an impact on other services such as housing, subsidies and other programs. So we have to review how much impact it will have on the other programs and services.
Once we find out then we will make a decision but we will definitely need support and help from outside to review our department.
Are you starting to analyze how your review will be done and how deep your review will be done?
Are you starting to analyze… Mr. Chairman, if I can ask 2 questions. If you are going to be requiring outside assistance are you considering looking at outside of government departments or are you looking at whether you will be getting assistance from other the departments?
I will have the deputy minister respond.
We will need support from within the government departments and from outside. Because, for example, with the Department of Justice they started the review on social assistance and the policy and regulations.
It was initiated then from within the government and outside we will require help from those as I stated before that I still don’t know how difficult and deep the review will be.
Therefore, I cannot totally respond to your question.
The new government mandate called Sivumut Abluqta states that all of these various reviews… will need programs and services to be reviewed within the government and every time during oral questions… any time we ask a question the response is usually that it’s still under review now.
Mr. Chairman, let me ask, the review that you are going to be doing in your department I know that the target date to complete the review is the year 2015.
Have you considered what month of 2015? Will it be in January or December when you will complete the review?
We will be dealing with the ones that have to be reviewed that are on emergency basis especially to do with social assistance and what we are trying to do is use a computer to distribute social assistance to clients because some of the communities are using computers to distribute income support and this is very expensive to operate.
We can’t really say which month and what year it will be complete.
I now understand that the review that is going to be done by your department, you have not made any tentative scheduling as to when it’s going to be done.
We know what we are going to do in some aspects.
We have looked at the social assistance legislation, but for people that need more assistance, I’m not really sure exactly we are going to be doing with that and how we are to make changes to that.
We want to have a very good Act in place. That’s why we’re doing the review.
The minister stated that some communities do not write out checks.
Financial transactions are mainly done through the computer. There is less paperwork and things are more computerized.
That is all I can say. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
While we’re on Income Support on page D-6. Income Assistance.
The hon. minister mentioned that they’re get all the communities are trying to computerize social assistance. Four communities already have computers that they are using.
Do you know when all the communities of Nunavut will be computerized?
What we want to do is that all the communities will eventually be given computers for direct deposits.
The software is also very expensive and also need training on. This causes us to slow down because it costs money, and the bandwidth is not operational in communities.
We are working with the CGS department to make sure that we can get them computerized.
Do I understand then that you don’t know exactly when all the communities will be able to be using computers to do direct deposits?
Do I understand that?
I will have my staff answer that question. I would like the member to know that in Igloolik we’ll be installing computers to get them online with Income Support.
I will get my deputy minister to respond to part of that question.
The minister stated earlier that we will be working with CGS with respect to the installation of computers and software. The minister also stated that some of the communities will be using the computers. The three communities that the minister stated will be using the computer.
Perhaps there will be seven communities that will be able to use the computer.
I can’t really say for sure, but we have to work with CGS. The rest of the communities that I did name will be completed within two years. That’s what we expect to do.
I don’t have any more questions. Mr. Chairman, I move a motion to report progress.
Hon. Member for Qamani’tuaq, Mr. Mikkungwak.
Mr. Mikkungwak: Uqaqtii, your committee has been considering Bill 2 and the main estimates, and would like to report progress.
Speaker (interpretation): Thank you. (interpretation ends) In accordance with the authority provided to me by Motion 3 – 4(2), this House stands adjourned until Friday, June 6, at 10:00 a.m.
Pages 621 – 696
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters 621
Report of the Committee of the Whole 695
Orders of the Day 695
Friday, June 6, 2014 621
Bill 02 – Appropriation (Operations & Maintenance) Act, 2014-2015 – Family Services – Consideration in Committee 622
Bill 02 – Appropriation (Operations & Maintenance) Act, 2014-2015 – Justice – Consideration in Committee 658
Bill 02 – Appropriation (Operations & Maintenance) Act, 2014-2015 – Finance – Consideration in Committee 688
Speaker (Hon. George Qulaut) (interpretation): Can you say the opening prayer, please, Ms. Ugyuk.
Speaker: Hon. Member for Hudson Bay, Mr. Rumbolt.
Good morning, members. Good morning to the people of Nunavut.
Mr. Speaker, this morning, I would like to seek unanimous consent to proceed directly to Item 19 on the order paper.
Speaker: The member is seeking unanimous consent to proceed directly to Item 19.
There are none. We will proceed to Item 19.
Bill 2 and Bill 3 with Mr. Mikkungwak in the Chair.
I ask all members to remain at their seats so that we can immediately proceed to the Committee of the Whole.
Chairman (Mr. Mikkungwak) (interpretation): Good morning, Nunavummiut. (interpretation ends) I would like to call the committee meeting to order.
In Committee of the Whole, we have the following to deal with: Bills 2 and 3.
Mr. Chairman, we wish to continue with the review of the main estimates for the Department of Family Services, followed by the Department of Justice, and if time permits, the Department of Finance and the Department of Economic Development and Transportation.
Chairman (interpretation): Are we in agreement that we continue with the review of the (interpretation ends) main estimates for the Department of Family Services?
Chairman: Is the committee agreed that Minister Ugyuk’s staff go to the witness table?
Chairman (interpretation): Sergeant-at-Arms, (interpretation ends) please allow the minister’s staff to go to the witness table.
(interpretation) Minister Ugyuk, for the record, please introduce your officials.
Simon Awa on my right, Deputy Minister, and Director of Finance David Kolot on my left.
Brandon Grant is the Director of Income Support.
Colleagues, please turn to page D-6 (interpretation ends) Family Services. Branch Summary.
Income Assistance. (interpretation) According to my list, Mr. Hickes.
The minister probably remembers that I have asked some questions in this House during Oral Questions regarding minimum wage and as well young parents stay learning.
Support for students to have daycare funding.