EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
He was going to try and table it prior to the end of the sitting.
I was asking him exactly when was that report completed and when did he receive it?
This is a question that was brought up earlier by another member and as I stated earlier, I’ll be able to table the report prior to the end of this session.
Mr. Chairman, when did the department and the minister receive the report from the Alberta Research Council?
If I can get a date out of that, that is what I am looking for.
How long ago did you receive this report?
That is not a question that was asked before.
You just told us that you had a report that was done and that you would provide it to the House.
I am asking when it was received.
We received the report this past week on Friday.
Just last Friday?
Today is what Tuesday today?
How come something like that as soon as you found out the other report indicating that it was bad gas that was causing a problem, you informed the House right away.
I am just wondering how come right away once you got that report that you did not make it available to the members of this House.
First of all I will apologize to the member.
We do know that this is a big concern of all the members.
We knew that we were going to be making an appearance in the Committee of the Whole, and since we had our research people here, we have had numerous meetings to resolve this bad gas problem.
We have had meetings with the staff and the research people and because of that we didn’t table the report right away into the House.
I can assure the member that we will be tabling the report prior to the end of the session.
If that report was available, I would not mind having the opportunity, and I am sure that I am not the only one in here that would like to have a look at that prior to dealing with this in the Committee of the Whole.
Who knows after we are done with it and we get the report it could raise a lot of other questions that is information that we won’t be privy to until after this opportunity to have you and your people here in the Committee of the Whole.
I think that is a little bit of an oversight, I hope that it is an oversight, on behalf of the department.
I will be looking at it very carefully when we do get it, and maybe we will have to have your people back to answer some questions about that.
One of the other things that you mentioned in your report is that you are trying to figure out the problem.
Are you telling us that you still don’t know what the problem is with the gasoline?
I can tell my colleague we are very concerned about the quality of the gasoline.
We are not trying to hide anything.
We are looking for solutions.
It is going to be very expensive but we will keep working on it.
We do know now that the quality of the gasoline is bad.
The only thing that we can do now at this point is to look for some solutions.
We are still looking at options today.
I can use an example of a terminally ill patient or one who has a disease.
You have to diagnose the problem in order to find a cure for it.
It’s something along that line.
We are looking for solutions and if we determine the problem then we can find a cure but I can’t tell the member when, but we are working on it.
If I can deduct from the minister’s response that they don’t know what the problems are right now, other than the fact that we have bad gas because that’s simply what I asked and I’m sure he’ll correct me if I’m wrong.
Another question I have is in his Opening Comments, Mr. Chairman; he indicated that the gasoline meets the specifications of the Canadian General Standards Board except for the deposit control additive.
My question I guess is, you know, plain simple yes or no.
Does the gasoline that was supplied to us meet the specifications of the General Standards Board?
I’m sorry, thank you, Mr. Kattuk.
Mr. Chairman, even in, I’m a little confused I guess.
In the press release and information that has been put out by the department it says that the requirements of the Canadian General Standards Board was to have that DCA in the gasoline so, I’d like to ask the minister, if it doesn’t have that in there, how does it meet those standards?
Once we determined that it did not contain a deposit control additive, we didn’t know that it was missing an additive because it’s not one of the requirements that are identified in testing the gasoline.
Looking for that additive is not one of the requirements outlined in there.
That’s why it took a long time for us to find out that the quality of gasoline was inferior.
I’m still confused I guess.
It does meet these except for this.
It is something that is a standard that is tested; it’s supposed to be in there as an additive.
And if it’s not in there I don’t understand, even though I know it may not be tested for but it should according to the Canadian General Standards Board should be something that’s in the gasoline and you know, I’m having a little bit of trouble trying to understand where the minister’s coming from when he says it does, even though this isn’t in there, this is, they said in the past, the department that this is something that is supposed to be in the fuel.
If it’s not in there how can it meet those standards in which the minister’s saying?
Either it does or it doesn’t.
Never mind whether it’s supposed to be there, therefore maybe we don’t test for it.
It’s not supposed to show up missing in a test or not.
But the fact is it’s supposed to be in there according to the Canadian General Standards Board.
It’s supposed to be in the fuel.
If it’s not in there, then it doesn’t meet the specifications set by the Canadian General Standards Board.
Is that basically the bottom line aside from weaving in and out and dodging and looking at whether it was tested for or not?
I think we all understand that that’s something that’s not tested for because it’s supposed to be there.
But the fact of the matter is it wasn’t there so as a result of that, does it meet the Canadian General Standards Board’s specifications for fuel to be supplied throughout, that they have for fuel?
It does or it doesn’t.
I don’t understand where you’re coming from when you say it does but it didn’t have this and according to some of the media releases and stuff that you’ve put out in the past that says that it is something that is supposed to be there according to those rules and it’s not.
So, maybe if I can get a straight answer on that.
The gasoline has many additives.
I think there are approximately 700 additives in the gasoline and those are tested to see if they have been added into the gasoline.
We’re talking approximately 700 additives.
I’ll have my deputy minister respond to your question.
I can only say that I’ll have my deputy make supplementary comments.
I’ll try to answer this question with my best knowledge.
The gasoline which has been unloaded has been provided with a certificate that the gasoline is fully complying with the Canadian Standards Board.
However, through the testing, which was initiated much later on, and which is not usually done in the federal industry in Canada or States, show that deposit control additives was not in the gasoline.
That came up later when the Alberta Research Council concluded through additional testing which is usually not done anywhere in the industry from that point to detect the DCA or not.
I guess based on that, after delivery, when we have a certificate saying it was okay, we discovered that it wasn’t.
Is that basically what you’re saying, that after further testing, that usually isn’t done, we found out that it didn’t meet those standards.
Mr. Mrazek: What I’m saying is that we have the proof that the gasoline is complying with the standards except the deposit control additive.
Mr. Tootoo,
Here we go dancing again.
Maybe just ask the deputy minister, I guess, as a result of this further testing that they’ve done, yes or no, does this meet the standards with the results that they found from the further testing.
Yes or no, does this gasoline meet those standards?
Mr. Mrazek: I think I will have to say the same thing, the gasoline is conforming the Canadian Standards Board except this deposit control additive.
Mr. Tootoo: Mr. Chairman, I guess that’s something I’ve learned in the last three years in this House, is it’s pretty difficult to get this government to say no to something.
I don’t know how or why, I guess, maybe it’s something that the minister wants to provide to us after. And not in public as to why they can’t say it doesn’t meet those standards.
It’s pretty obvious that it doesn’t.
By the sounds of it, it’s a very carefully worded, it does except.
Well basically it doesn’t.
I look forward to an explanation as to why the department and the minister won’t say no that it doesn’t.
To me, I’m not going to beat that horse anymore because I don’t think that I’m going to get any answer.
I’m just disappointed I guess.
Another thing I wanted to ask, now that they know what the problem is and they’re looking at solutions, and maybe Mr. Wispinski can answer this better, I’m not sure, but are there things that we can add or put into the gasoline that will solve the problem of the missing DCA.
Can you just add something to the gasoline?
Is there some kind of additive that you can put in there to lessen the negative impact on the motors as a result of burning this gasoline?
Mr. Wispinski: The testing that we did with the snowmobiles was designed to see if the deposit control additive would help.
And that’s what we did; we added the deposit control additive to the gasoline.
Mr. Tootoo. We’ll take a brief break after you’re complete.
I could go on for a long time but I’m sure you won’t let me.
Mr. Wispinski: The deposit control additive helped a little bit but not enough to recommend the wholesale addition of it to the entire gasoline pool.
Mr. Chairman, like I said in my opening comments, I think one of the things we need to do is try to find a way to fix it.
Maybe I can ask Mr. Wispinski if he could identify or let us know of some of the things that we could look at doing to try and fix the gasoline.
Are there other additives that we can put into it? Is there something else that we can put into it so that we can fix it?
This was the last question.
We have done extensive studies on what additives we may or may not add.
We have done a snowmobile experiment with additives.
We have exhausted all other avenues of trying to immediately solve the problem and this is where we have come to the conclusion with the two alternatives that Mr. Kattuk has previously presented.
To get to everyone we will probably have a long discussion on this.
I will allow everyone to have a say.
So we will have a fifteen minute break, and then we will come back.
>>Committee recessed at 3.06 p.m. and resumed at 3.28 p.m.
Chairperson (interpretation): We can start again.
Minister and your officials please return to the witness table.
I have written names.
We will give you 10 minutes if we can.
I want to ask the minister about the bad gas.
He was reading in his Speaking Notes, he mentioned that to add to it or drain it.
I would just like a clarification on this.
What it would be like to drain it or add it.
If you drain it, anywhere, can you clarify when you say drain it where?
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): If it’s the bad gas and you mentioned that it’s bad gas, I thought it was good gas; to remove it or drain it, to dispose of it or add to it by blending the remaining gasoline supply with new re-supply.
Is that what we can do?
Hon. Peter Kattuk (interpretation): Disposing of this gas will have to drain all the gas from the tank.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): If we drain it how can we get new gas?
Hon. Peter Kattuk (interpretation): I can’t really answer that one.
Like I said, we can’t fix it up overnight.
We will drain the bad gas but we will have to wait until the good gas comes in and put it in the tank.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): I have something else here.
Like when you said add it what exactly do you mean?
Like I said, this will be worked on.
We will look for ways how to supply good gas to the communities but I can’t answer this question at the moment but we will do something about the gas in the communities and look for ways to supply a better gas, good gas.
But I don’t know the date when that will happen.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): A few minutes ago you mentioned that for the gas left over, as you have mentioned earlier on the communities with the good gasoline left over that had fewer complaints.
So therefore my question is whether we should blend it with the good gasoline.
According to your statement the communities that have good gasoline left over from the previous year had fewer problems.
So is it good to blend the two gasolines together?
Yes, we can probably blend them but to date we still haven’t resolved whether we should blend it or not with the gasoline that we had used previously.
I know that when this quality of gas that’s been distributed to the communities we now know that gasoline is mediocre and whether we should put additives or how we should be putting additives.
We’re working on that, the officials are working on that, and as a government we will be giving them support because we have to resolve the bad gasoline situation in the communities.
I’m asking about what the minister mentioned in his speech.
You mentioned that for those who have leftovers on that, I’m asking if you blend the gasoline, would it be better?
Yes, the member understood clearly that last fall for the communities that had good gasoline leftover in their fuel tank farms were complaining less and the ones with less good gasoline leftover in their tanks have more complaints.
Chairperson (interpretation): Would you like to continue Mr. Nutarak.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): The communities with good gasoline leftover in their fuel tanks are not complaining as much.
So my question is, would it make the gasoline better or good if you mixed it with the good and bad gasoline together?
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you. Minister Kattuk.
The research officials will be analysing the gasoline to see if the bad gasoline can be blended with good gasoline.
They’ll be doing that testing to see if it would be useable as good gasoline.
The communities of Nunavut with good gasoline left over, he has stated that they complained less.
I was wondering if the minister is willing to give me a list of communities that have fewer complaints and fewer reports.
Let me look through my information Mr. Chairman.
I don’t have that information in front of me.
I am requesting one of my officials to come down with the information.
I’m sure the official is listening to the proceedings about the list of the communities that had reported impacts, so while my official is coming down with the document, Mr. Nutarak can ask another question.
While one of the members was asking questions, because they purchased the gasoline thinking it was good gasoline and they told us that they finally found out later on that the gasoline was missing an additive.
When the complaints were being received, then they did their testing.
So I’m asking that question with that in mind.
When we mix the two types of gasoline together, I was wondering if it would be useable.
While we’re waiting for the document, Pond Inlet was one of the communities that was mentioned with less problems but I have a list of names of the hunters with snowmobiles that broke down.
I’m sure if he states in his reports that they received fewer impact reports, because I have a list of over 100 names.
Once you’ve found out that the gasoline was missing additives, so my real question is if we can mix good gasoline with bad gasoline together, he stated that they were going to be doing some testing on that.
I’m sure the results will come in later on.
The mediocre gasoline or bad gasoline that I have asked about the members are concerned because this spring like for example if we ship in fuel by airlines it’s going to become very expensive and I’m sure it’s going to take a long to use the gasoline and this spring and summer the hunters will be going out hunting before the good gas arrives in the fall time because we’re quite concerned about it.
So, if you can find remedies and getting new good gasoline and I know that this is going to be urgent.
I was wondering if your department, while we’re waiting for the document to come down, I will be asking another question.
For snowmobile or if any motor vehicle, if I put additives to my snowmobile engine or any other engine, has your department done any studies whether it could help the engine?
Yes, to date, as my official to my left when he responded with one of the snowmobiles that they have tested that they had put in an additive to one of the snowmobiles, once they did that study, we didn’t really notice any difference but to your question.
To date, about adding something to the gasoline, we don’t know if it can improve the gasoline if we put in the additives.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): The minister for petroleum products had stated that, without actually knowing the results that it would be better to mix the two and he didn’t know the actual results.
What would come out?
I don’t remember saying that blending the two types of gasoline would improve the situation.
I don’t remember saying that myself but the officials will be testing out how to improve the gasoline whether to put an additive because we’ve never actually done any testing to improve the gasoline but it’s in the process.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): My timer has stopped ticking so I’ll probably be asking questions for a long time.
In regards to the bad gasoline, when it was tested we complained that it’s very bad gasoline and the minister stated that they would do more testing.
But it’s evident now that it’s not good; the gasoline at the community level is not good.
So, I was wondering if the department can clarify.
They said that 36.9% of that additive is insufficient or is it too huge.
I was wondering if you can clarify that 36.9%.
Where is it at?
Is it too much or too little?
Is it too high, and that’s what makes it bad?
Or is it too low that makes it bad?
It’s too high. 36.9% is too high.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): During the testing, when the results came, they found out this was too high, the additive, perhaps, which was forgotten to put into the fuel, I was wondering if they can deliver additive by airlines to the communities.
To date, we haven’t done any testing whether we can fly it into the communities but according to the testing we’ve done on snowmobiles, the other snowmobile had additives and one snowmobile used this gasoline that we’re dealing with.
We did two tests on two snowmobiles.
Although the gasoline had the additive, we couldn’t really find the difference that we’re looking for.
To date, the member is asking if we can do something about it.
Therefore I cannot respond to you.
At this time I have no answers but the testing we’ve done with the additive to the gasoline, it was quite hard to tell the difference between the two.
Is it understandable and clear now that even though we put in that additive, that it would not improve the quality of fuel?
Hon. Peter Kattuk (interpretation): Yes, the two options I stated, whether to dispose or to blend the gasoline with another gasoline, we still don’t know which option we’d be using.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): According to the member’s responses, I keep asking questions.
He talked about the two snowmobiles that they did the testing on, one with the additive, they could not tell the difference.
So therefore I had asked the minister if we have to dispose of the gasoline that is in the communities of Nunavut.
Now I’m a bit confused.
It was clearer earlier on.
In his response it’s the other way around again.
When will we know how the bad gasoline can be remedied?
I believe not too long from now, that this situation is still being worked and the process, we’re still testing and I’m sure that we’ll come with the results not too long from now.
For the two snowmobiles that you tested, you didn’t get an actual result.
Once that’s finished are you going to be testing again to make sure the quality of the gasoline is improved?
The first tests we did for the gasoline had an additive that was missing and the second tests using the gasoline that was purchased from the Kitikmeot gasoline, we had two different testings and later on we found out that the Kitikmeot gasoline, which we used on the other snowmobile, and Baffin Region gasoline, we used Baffin gasoline on the latter part of the test.
We found out that the Baffin gasoline is inadequate and when we found out on the latter part of our tests, but the first time we did the testing with the gasoline that had the additive that was missing.
Although I don’t want to keep asking the same question that I was asking the Minister once you come up with the results.
As the Minister stated that they have not come to finalize the results, and he spoke about two snowmobiles that they did testing on.
They still haven’t found out the exact results on how to improve the quality of gasoline so I ask the Minister for the last time, when can you find out how we can improve the quality of gasoline to an acceptable level?
Hon. Peter Kattuk (interpretation): When the member was asking perhaps I did not quite understand your first question.
Can you rephrase your question?
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): I thought that we understood each other because we are speaking the same language.
Now I understand that at times we have a language barrier, even though we both speak Inuktitut.
In regards to your statement that the two snowmobiles that you did testing on.
The first one had an additive.
I had asked the Minister if it would improve the quality of the gasoline if we bring in the additive to the communities.
He stated that they did testing on two snowmobiles with one of them containing additives.
They still haven’t come to concrete conclusions so I was asking him when are you going to conclude this testing and when are you going to find out how to improve the quality?
I am just asking that same question again.
I am sure that it is clearer now.
Chairperson (interpretation): Perhaps that is clearer, Minister.
According to my understanding, I heard two questions in regards to snowmobile testing.
When it will be completed?
If he is asking about that or one with additives, if we put in some kind of additive and do the testing so I need that clarification.
Snowmobile testing, when it will be completed and when we expect to see the results and also and he is also asking if we are going to be testing by blending the two types of gasoline.
I just wanted him to be clear on his question.
When I first started asking questions I initially asked whether to dispose of or blend the bad gasoline with the good gasoline. I am still there.
In your opening notes, you stated the two options whether to dispose or blend the bad gasoline.
I still haven’t moved away from the bad gasoline.
How can we improve the bad gasoline that is out there in the Nunavut communities?
That has been my question.
I am not asking about the two snowmobiles now, I just used them as an example.
I am trying to find out how we can improve the quality of gasoline.
My question is how can our Nunavut communities improve the quality of gasoline in the regions?
How can we improve the quality of gasoline because we have heard that the quality of gasoline is very poor in the Kitikmeot and especially the Baffin region?
I was trying to ask the question of how we can improve the quality of gasoline.
We purchased the gasoline, and after purchasing the gasoline, we later found out that it was missing an additive.
Perhaps by adding that additive perhaps it could be improved.
My question is how can we improve the quality of gasoline?
I must be speaking confusingly right now as I cannot be understood.
Yes, I can understand you.
What you said is when we blend the remaining gasoline with the new supply, would that improve it?
That’s what the member’s question is.
Hon. Peter Kattuk (interpretation): The member stated that the Kitikmeot and the Baffin, when in fact it is the Kivalliq and the Baffin people who are experiencing bad gasoline.