EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Members recognize that there is an overwhelming need for additional space to accommodate Nunavut’s inmates.
Sending inmates out of the territory is very expensive and costs will only increase as time goes on.
Members have noted that the only Nunavut correctional facility currently operating - the Baffin Correctional Centre in Iqaluit - is extremely overcrowded.
As demonstrated in other settings, overcrowding is not healthy at the best of times.
In a correctional setting, it can quickly become extremely dangerous for both inmates and staff.
Mr. Chairman, members have noted with some concern that statistics show a steady increase in the number of incidents such as assault, disruptive behaviour, and suicide attempts at the Baffin Correctional Centre.
Careful monitoring of these types of incidents will be an important performance measure for the future in evaluating the value of opening new correctional facilities.
Mr. Chairman, members are in full support of the construction of the Rankin Inlet Correctional Centre for men.
Members look forward to seeing what plans the minister and his officials have in place to provide training and local employment opportunities for Nunavutmiut.
An important aspect of keeping inmates closer to home while serving their sentences is in ensuring cultural understanding and sensitivity.
Mr. Chairman, the second major project in the Department of Justice’s proposed 2009-2010 capital estimates is a women’s correctional centre in the community of Iqaluit.
In the past, female offenders from Nunavut were sent out of territory to serve their sentences in places like the Fort Smith women’s facility.
Occasionally, women served very short sentences in RCMP detachment cells in their home communities.
Members have noted that the Department of Justice transformed an external building at BCC to house female inmates in 2007 and for some time, it did not appear that there were any plans to build a new facility.
Members are pleased to note that a new such facility will now be built with space for up to eight female inmates.
It is important that as many Nunavut inmates as possible, both male and female, are able to serve their sentences in their home territory and receive appropriate counselling and training.
Mr. Chairman, members strongly encourage the minister to work with his federal counterparts in giving consideration to the establishment of a federal correctional facility in Nunavut.
Currently, federal inmates from Nunavut are away from their home for very long periods of time and are completely removed from their families and environment.
For some of the older Nunavut inmates, this situation is especially difficult.
Mr. Chairman, while members recognize that funding to support outpost camps for offenders generally comes from the department’s operation and maintenance budget, members urge the minister and his officials to consider setting aside capital funds that could be used in order to establish new outpost camps.
Members were pleased to note that all operating outpost camps have now been issued with satellite phones which further improve their ability to communicate and their level of safety. Members recommend that the minister and his officials ensure that policies and procedures relating to the operation of outpost camps and the use of any related equipment are clearly communicated to outpost camp operators on a regular basis.
Mr. Chairman, that concludes my opening comments on the proposed 2009-2010 Capital Estimates of the Department of Justice.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Ningeongan.
Before we proceed, I would like to remind my colleagues of the following: according to Rule 77(1), you have 10 minutes to speak, and according to Rule 77(2), subject to my discretion as the Chair, a member may speak more than once to a matter under discussion but not until every member wishing to speak has spoken.
I thank the minister and his officials for appearing before the committee.
Ever since Nunavut was created, the Department of Justice has been looking to apply Inuit ways to better rehabilitate inmates.
Mr. Ningeongan commented on the O&M part, but I do want your department to consider, as we see here for the facility in Rankin Inlet, $37,250,000 is a huge amount and its O&M will have to be determined.
We send inmates to outpost camps, but we haven’t really worked on it. We don’t even train communities on that.
Although we have a men’s healing facility in Kugluktuk, it’s for the Kitikmeot only.
There are some inmates from other communities who are incarcerated in Iqaluit for four months or a little bit longer and then sent back to their communities after they have served their time.
After two months or so, they commit crimes again and they just keep going back and forth. Why can’t we house those inmates at the local level?
Using Pond Inlet as an example, why not build a minimum security correctional facility?
That would create employment opportunities in non-decentralized communities and save on high transportation costs.
Maybe you could start funding for employing local people rather than using that money to pay for transportation costs.
As Mr. Ningeongan stated, when inmates are housed far from their homes, they are removed from their families and environment for long periods of time. More importantly, the security guards are not from Nunavut in most cases. Sometimes inmates go back home and forget their Inuktitut, such as terms related to the outdoors.
I am talking about men, the majority of inmates being men.
I will be asking questions in regard to that when we get to that page, Mr. Chairman.
We will most likely have to start considering, as Nunavummiut, better ways of dealing with our inmates so that they lead healthier lifestyles and how best to house them.
It has become quite clear that some inmates who break the law were either from broken homes, picked on too much, or residential school students, and there are other contributing factors which have led to their pain and frustration.
I urge your department to start looking at each community specifically.
I am sure you know which communities that we receive inmates from the most.
Perhaps you can consider incarcerating inmates at the local level if they have short-term sentences, let’s say three months or a little longer.
There are various entities in communities, such as elders groups and others, that can be responsible for dealing with such inmates and I am urging the minister and the department to consider that.
We have security guards at the local level and they also take care of people who are intoxicated.
Sometimes these security guards make more money than we do when they are required to work on a daily basis.
The communities are capable now, but they lack infrastructure and that is why they have to send the inmates to the correctional facility in Iqaluit. Maybe if we used the approach that I suggested, the facility wouldn’t be so overcrowded because a majority of those inmates have short-term sentences.
I will ask questions later on.
That was more of a comment for consideration.
As Mr. Arvaluk stated, I want our Clerk to increase my salary.
I believe Mr. Ningark would like to make a comment. Mr. Ningark.
Mr. Ningark (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Speaker… Mr. Chairman, I’m sorry.
I called you with the wrong title, so please bear with me.
All communities don’t share the same views, obviously.
We don’t even think the same within our own families.
Using Kugaaruk and Repulse Bay as examples, I am considerate of their feelings because I am a human being.
We have to be considerate of other people because we all have feelings.
If there was a correctional facility to be built either in Repulse Bay or Kugaaruk, I would first ask them what they think and where they would want it built if they’re in support of it.
Some people would be shocked at having these facilities built in their community right at the present time, but I believe they can eventually be built in all communities. It has the potential of improving the quality of life in a community but only if it doesn’t cause danger.
As Mr. Arvaluk stated, elders in communities are there to help, so are women and men, and youth also have their own input.
I know exactly where the member is coming from. But is it safe for residents to house inmates in their communities?
There were some inmates from other communities sent to Kugaaruk to live in our community for a while and they were not dangerous, but it was a concern to our people.
Yes, there are healing facilities where our people can go to and we would all like to help each other, Mr. Chairman.
So I would like to thank Mr. Arvaluk and the other individuals who contributed their own comments.
No one has their hand up. Thank you.
We will now proceed with the page-by-page review of the Capital Estimates for the Department of Justice, starting with E-3.
Directorate. Justice.
Total Capital Expenditures. $400,000.
Chairman (interpretation): E-3 has been agreed to.
The next page is E-5.
Total Capital Expenditures. $16.7 million.
If I’m correct, I think we’re talking about the planned Rankin Inlet Correctional Centre. If that’s the case, I would like to ask what plans are in place for the present Baffin Correctional Centre after the Rankin Inlet project is completed.
Will it remain a correctional facility for Baffin inmates and will there be the same number of PYs?
I would like to point out that $16.7 million is for the women’s correctional facility and the Rankin Inlet Correctional Centre; $15.2 million is for the Rankin Inlet Correctional Centre.
Would you like to respond to the question, Minister Peterson?
The plans for the Department of Justice are to continue to use the Baffin Correctional Centre and I don’t believe there will be any change in PYs.
Chairman (interpretation): Does that answer your question, Mr. Arvaluk? Do you have additional questions?
Mr. Arvaluk (interpretation): Yes, I do.
I believe it was in the foyer of the Legislative Assembly, we were shown a model of the proposed Rankin Inlet Correctional Centre that was on display.
Does that model represent the final design?
Chairman (interpretation): Minister Peterson, is that frozen?
Yes, that was a mock-up display to show that when the building is completed, that’s what it will look like.
What is the current status of the Rankin Inlet Correctional Centre? The Chairman had mentioned some of the funds which will be used for that facility. Is the project on budget and on schedule?
Chairman (interpretation): Minister Peterson, if you would like to respond.
Yes, the project is on schedule and on budget.
I just need a clarification here.
When the Nunavut Housing Corporation was here, their capital plans indicated that it has budgeted $9,075,000 for staff housing for 33 PYs at the Rankin Inlet facility for 2010-11, while your substantiation sheet indicates that $8,750,000 has been budgeted for staff housing in the 2009-2010 fiscal year.
Can you tell me which one is the right one?
Chairman: I wonder who the building is for. (interpretation) Minister Peterson, can you respond to that question.
Mr. Chairman, those figures for incremental housing were numbers that were provided to the Department of Justice as an information item.
It doesn’t affect our budget, but that was information that they provided to us.
Mr. Arvaluk, did he answer your question?
Mr. Arvaluk: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation) Yes, he did.
Although it’s not a huge sum of money and it’s not in the millions, I would like to see something that is the same.
Once the Rankin Inlet Correctional Centre is operational, however many inmates there are being housed in other facilities outside of Nunavut, such as in Yellowknife or Ottawa, would they be sent to that facility?
Chairman (interpretation): Minister, let me check which figures those will be. (interpretation ends) Which figures should we use?
I believe those incremental housing figures were provided a year or two ago, so they have probably been updated by the Nunavut Housing Corporation since.
If they are providing housing, I would rather rely on their numbers, but that’s an information item.
But ultimately, it doesn’t affect the budget for the Department of Justice; our budget is for the Rankin Inlet Correctional Centre.
Chairman (interpretation): There’s the response, those figures come from the Housing Corporation.
Are there any further questions on this page?
I had asked an additional question. Once the Rankin Inlet Correctional Centre is operational, will inmates outside Nunavut, such as in Yellowknife or Ottawa, and for whom there is no space at the Baffin Correctional Centre here be returned and housed at the Rankin Inlet Correctional Centre?
That’s the plan, Mr. Chairman.
In the North Slave Correctional Centre in Yellowknife, there are, on average, between 35 and 40 inmates from Nunavut.
A lot of them are from the Kitikmeot, so they could go to the Rankin Inlet facility and that would save us $97,000 per year per inmate that we are currently being charged for inmates in Yellowknife.
So that would be the plan, to bring them in from Yellowknife or other areas, but that all depends on the assessments of the individual prisoners.
I don’t know where they would come from, but we certainly want to try to maximize the use of that facility.
I think we can accommodate up to 48 prisoners in the Rankin Inlet facility.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Peterson. (interpretation ends) We can’t manage those costs all the time, they keep going up.
So that’s the added benefits, we will be able to manage it a little more. (interpretation) Are there any further questions?
I still have three more questions.
I believe this is included in the 16 million dollar figure that you mentioned. One of the members also mentioned that there’s funding to support outpost camps for offenders.
For example, there are outpost camp programs in Pangnirtung, Kimmirut, and other communities.
Are those included in the capital estimates?
Chairman (interpretation): If you look at the minister’s opening statements, he didn’t mention outpost camps, but a member of the Regular Members’ Caucus did speak about them.
So if the minister would provide a response to the opening comments of the Regular Members’ Caucus.
I thank the member for that question, good question.
Currently, within the Department of Justice, outpost camps are funded through the O&M and the main estimates. We have noted the chairman’s comments about outpost camps in his opening comments.
Lastly, while we’re under Corrections, the Rankin Inlet Correctional Centre is going to be built.
But I asked the minister if they have considered establishing a small building, maybe even a residential unit to house short-term inmates because people are usually not scared of them but rather that they believe these inmates need counselling.
I’m referring to inmates who keep going back and forth. These are usually younger people who keep going back to the correctional facility in Iqaluit.
I’m wondering if you can consider establishing small units in some communities where inmates can be housed from three to four months or a little longer.
I thank the member for that question, it’s a good point.
I noted in his opening comments that he is interested in that and also noted Mr. Ningark’s comments.
The best example of how that might come about is if there is community support.
I think that’s how it occurred in Kugluktuk, where the community wanted a healing type facility and approached the Department of Justice, and there was a facility there that was available.
They approached the Department of Justice with a proposal and they eventually opened up the facility to accommodate the type of inmates and prisoners that you’re talking about.
So if there’s a community in the Baffin that’s interested, I would encourage them to come and talk to us.
Total Branch. $16.7 million.
I’m sorry, Mr. Arvaluk, do you have additional questions?
Mr. Arvaluk (interpretation): Yes, if there are no further questions from the other members. I believe the women’s correctional facility is included in the $16.7 million. I believe that that project was identified in May of 2008 and its construction has not been initiated to date.
What is the current status of the proposed women’s correctional facility?
Will it finally be initiated once we approve this funding?
Chairman (interpretation): I hope so because the price keeps going up.
The project was re-tendered on February 13 and the closing date for submissions was March 19, 2009. I believe the Department of Community and Government Services is reviewing the tenders and hopefully one will be accepted.
The plan is to open the facility later this year and I think the target date is December of 2009.
That’s the plan and we will keep our fingers crossed.
I would like to be invited because I am tired of waiting for the opening.
Can the minister tell me if they know how many Nunavut women are currently serving prison sentences outside of Nunavut?
Chairman (interpretation): Can that question be answered, Minister Peterson?
There is one serving a sentence outside of Nunavut.
Mr. Arvaluk (interpretation): I think I heard that it was tendered on March 19.
Will it be a new building or will you renovate an existing building? What type of building is he talking about?
It will be a new building… well, if you can respond to that, minister.
Yes, it will be a new building.
In the substantiation sheets for the women’s correctional facility, it indicates that it will be an eight-bed facility.
Do you anticipate that the facility will be full as soon as it opens?
What is the expectation on that?
Chairman (interpretation): Minister Peterson, can you respond to the question?
Can we perhaps obtain third party funding for this?
I hesitate to make a guess, but I hope it’s not full when it opens. There are beds for eight women and I’m sure that the female inmates will appreciate the new facility. I was at the Baffin Correctional Centre a few weeks ago and it wasn’t a very pleasant experience for the ladies that were in there.
Chairman (interpretation): Mr. Arvaluk, you can’t say it’s your last one anymore as it is really your last question.
Mr. Arvaluk: I promise, (interpretation) this is my very last one.
How many staff members will be assigned to the women’s facility, such as cooks, guards, counsellors, and so on? How many employees will there be in total?
There will be nine staff at the facility and the cooking will be done at the Baffin Correctional Centre.
Chairman (interpretation): Mr. Elliott, did you also have a question?
Going back to the facility that’s going to be constructed in Rankin Inlet, I was just wondering if the minister could explain to us how they’re going to decide what inmates go where.
Are they going to try and put the Baffin inmates in the Baffin, the Kitikmeot in the Kitikmeot, or is it just free-for-all?
I thank Member Elliott for that question.
I don’t think it would be a free-for-all. I think the intention is the Baffin inmates will be in the Baffin Correctional Centre and the Kivalliq and the Kitikmeot inmates, we will try to house them in the Rankin Inlet facility.
Chairman: Mr. Elliott.
I’m not sure if the minister can answer this question because it doesn’t actually show up in these capital estimates.
There is no mention of young offenders in there and we’re talking about the next five years.
I’m just wondering if the minister could update us on the status of the building.
Is there a potential growth of inmates coming in where the building might need to be renovated or capital expenses need to put into it in the next five years?
Chairman: Could you clarify; is it the young offenders that you’re asking about or the existing facilities for other inmates?
Mr. Elliott: We are talking about BCC, we are talking about a facility for adults, but I’m concerned about the youth.
People who are under 18, there is no mention of what’s happening with them and obviously, this year, there is no need for any construction or any building of other buildings.
My question is: is there a potential for that in the future?
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Elliott. (interpretation ends) I know that they have been very good kids, so it’s been underused.
Minister Peterson, do you want to confirm that?
I toured the young offenders’ facility a few weeks ago as well and it appeared at the time, I think there were only eight youth in there, but upon questioning, it appeared steady, there wasn’t a whole lot, and the department is constantly analyzing the numbers and there was no indication that we will need a larger facility within the next five years.
Chairman: We’ve had good kids.
I thank the minister for answering that.
That was what I was hoping to hear. It’s nice to know that it’s underused.
You may now ask questions, Mr. Komoartok.
I understood exactly that BCC will still be used a lot and that there will be a correctional centre for men in Rankin Inlet and that it will enable us to repatriate inmates incarcerated outside of Nunavut.
It was stated earlier that there are a lot of Nunavummiut currently housed in Yellowknife.
My question is: once everything is functioning at the facility in Iqaluit and the men’s correctional centre opens in Rankin Inlet, are we going to repatriate federal prisoners who are currently serving two years and longer? Will we be able to repatriate them or are they going to stay in federal prisons?
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the member for that question.
Federal inmates from Nunavut fall under the federal jurisdiction and as such, we would have no plans to repatriate federal inmates. We don’t have facilities for federal inmates in Nunavut.
The minister stated that they could accommodate up to 48 inmates at the facility in Rankin Inlet.
It’s unfortunate that there are no women here who are regular members.
It states here that the women’s correctional facility will have eight beds.
It must mean there are not that many women incarcerated.
I would like to know more about that.
As a Member of the Legislative Assembly, it’s easier to understand things once you have been given the full story.
Chairman (interpretation): Minister Peterson, if you could give us a brief outline of the average number of female inmates to date. You stated that there is only one right now, but how many female inmates have there been in the past?
(interpretation ends) What’s the average?
I think that’s what the member is asking. (interpretation) Thank you.
Based on the information I have, it has never gone higher than eight, usually it’s around six or seven. Again, a few weeks ago, I think there were seven ladies housed in the Baffin Correctional Centre.
So again, that’s very steady.
Chairman (interpretation): Mr. Ningark, did he answer your question?
Chairman (interpretation): That has been agreed to.
I would like to be invited once all of those facilities are built as I have worked very hard on them, minister.
We will go back to page E-2.
Total Capital Expenditures. $17.1 million.
Chairman (interpretation): The Department of Justice is now concluded.
Do you agree that the Department of Justice is concluded?
Chairman (interpretation): I would like to thank the minister and his officials.
I would like to thank the members for some excellent questions.
It’s always good to get questions like that and get the information out there; the listening public is probably interested in it as well.
I would like to thank my colleagues as well for sitting in.
I would like to thank my officials for their hard work in bringing these projects almost to fruition and I’ll make sure that when the facilities are open, we will get an invitation to you, Mr. Chairman.
I also want to go to Rankin Inlet to see the opening of the facility there because I would really like to go there again.
Have a good afternoon.
We are finished with the Department of Justice.
Do members wish to continue from here?
Chairman (interpretation): The minister is now available to make his opening remarks.
Do you wish to proceed with the Department of Education?
Chairman (interpretation): I would now like to ask Minister Tapardjuk, Minister of Education, to make his opening remarks.
Bill 01 – Appropriation (Capital) Act, 2009-2010 – Education – Consideration in Committee