EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
In Cambridge Bay, you define the community as an emerging market. I happen to know because I live there, obviously, that we have a real housing crisis; not only in public housing, but in Government of Nunavut staff housing.
I’m wondering if the minister could comment if he’s aware of how many vacant Government of Nunavut positions there are in Cambridge Bay, due to lack of government housing?
I guess we’ll have to get back to Mr. Peterson. We need the information from Human Resources and us; where we are with that.
So we don’t have the information as planned, but once we get the information I’ll be happy to give him the information, as soon as I get the information.
I’ve heard that this is in the neighbourhood of 30 PYs because there’s no housing for Government of Nunavut employees. So that when you define the community as an emerging market; there is no market.
I know that the local developers are reluctant to construct housing, unless they get some sort of assurances from the Government of Nunavut, or the Housing Corporation, that will help them seek financing, put a business plan together, to go to banks to construct the necessary housing.
I am wondering how the Nunavut Housing Corporation is assisting local developers in the emerging markets to identify the housing opportunities and pursue them under the Government of Nunavut Staff Housing Policy?
We’ll be happy to talk to the community or the contractors, the business people in Cambridge Bay or Rankin Inlet, one of those two or both of them, to make sure how we could tackle this and work together on how we could improve our housing situation in those two communities; the two emerging communities or emerging to us, not to you, but we’re hoping to talk about it and we hadn’t had a chance to sit down and talk about it to any business owners there, but then again we’re willing to talk to them. It should be something reasonable or how we deliver it, or how we pay for it, so I do believe there is a chance for us to go over there and talk to the housing or the business people.
Chairman: Thank you, Minister. Mr. Peterson
Thank you, minister for that comment.
I guess in a worst-case scenario, I know we are not supposed to ask hypothetical questions, but it doesn’t hurt to ponder out loud a worst-case scenario. We have an emerging market in Cambridge Bay and a shortage of housing, but what happens if the private sector decides they don’t want to invest in the opportunities that the Nunavut Housing Corporation say are there.
We’re going to have more of a crisis in terms of hiring the staff that is needed to deliver the whole Government of Nunavut’s programs and services.
I know you say you haven’t talked to the Human Resources folks yet, but I’m fairly reasonably confident that there is close to 30 vacant PYs in Cambridge Bay because there is a lack of housing.
What we have now in Cambridge Bay is a situation where some of the employees are starting to double up because they can’t afford the increasing rents.
So there are a few disillusioned Government of Nunavut employees because of this new policy and it’s eating into their pay checks, in addition to all the other costs that we have up here.
So I’m wondering if the minister could comment on how the department is going to monitor implementation of the Government of Nunavut’s Staff Housing Policy to show to the House and to the people living in the houses that the policy is something that was necessary and needed, and that it would be justifiable in the end, and then lead to a better housing market, an emerging market.
Do you follow that Mr. Akesuk?
We’re in the very young stages where we are implementing the new policy. I do believe we will have a better idea within a year or two how this is affecting our staff, and again I hope we can make improvements in that. We’ll do our very best.
I do believe there is a way of monitoring it and making sure that our people that are working for Government of Nunavut are not quitting because of the housing shortage or the increase on housing and I think we are going to do our very best to make sure that we monitor this properly and I will get back to the Government of Nunavut staff within a year to two years where we are.
So I think it would be premature to say how we’re monitoring it, but I’m pretty sure we’re going to do that very well. I think that it’s best for us to figure out where we are within a year or two on this new housing policy.
Mr. Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the minister. I’m not sure I followed all that.
Could you give me a sense of how the Nunavut Housing Corporation is going to operate when you have essential positions such as teachers, doctors, nurses, engineers, who have to be hired to work in communities, and you have this Government of Nunavut Staff Housing Policy? How are you going to ensure that houses are available in those communities to house these essential PYs if there is no housing available?
We’re going to do our very best to do that.
It costs money to build houses, and where are we going to find the money? How are we going to do this? We really need the federal government to step in with the dollars so that we could build public housing units, along with the staff housing units to make sure that we have proper housing for our people; for our employees, or even our constituents that are living in Nunavut.
So I do believe that there is not enough money from the Government of Nunavut to build all the houses or staff housing we need for our territory. I think that the federal government should step in and, again, it will be on the top of our agenda once I meet with the CMHC Minister in Ottawa next month.
I wonder if it would be worthwhile if all 19 of us went down to Ottawa and picket the House of Commons with signs. We’d probably get a lot of attention for Nunavut, for our government.
We’ll all go down there and get our signs, and parade up and down the House of Commons, I’m sure we’d get a lot of coverage about the problems up here.
Touching on how expensive it is, could the minister give us an indication of what the cost is per square foot to construct the typical house in Nunavut, whether it’s a duplex, or a triplex, or a single house?
It’s at about $330,000 for material, freight, land, and the construction of the building.
How many square feet would a house like that be, and how many bedrooms?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk: Thank you. I tried to find that earlier. It’s $330 per square foot, which is for $330,000 it would be 1,000 square feet.
I thank the minister for that number.
The cost per square foot seems to be going up every year. I think the first time I asked the question it was $225. Last year it was $300 and now it is $330.
So the costs are increasing.
What kinds of programs does the housing corporation have internally to try and keep the costs down? Are you working on any kinds of efficient designs to reduce the cost down to a more reasonable amount per square foot?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk: Thank you. I’ll get Mr. Scott to answer that question.
A lot of the costs associated with construction are beyond our control.
For example, the freighting cost is done through contracting through the Department of Community and Government Services.
Material costs have gone up over the last few years on a regular and consistent basis and that was a result of market demand in southern Canada and southern United States. So our material costs have continued to increase.
Our land and our site development costs, that’s often set by the municipalities is where we have to get the land from and the site development by the gravel contractors in the local communities, so all of that is beyond our actual control.
We have looked at a number of innovative ideas in cutting down on some of the material costs, for example on the five-plex design. It was designed for metal studding, which is lighter weight, easier to work with, and easier to install.
But those types of innovative initiatives are changes that are actually very minor when it comes to actually affecting the total cost of construction up here.
As I said before, many of the costs associated with construction are beyond our control and beyond government’s control.
In the last year or so, year and a bit, there have been probably three petitions tabled in the House from different communities in Nunavut, including the one from Cambridge Bay.
When you receive a petition from a local housing organization, how do you react to it?
What do you do with that petition?
I know you write a letter, but how do you react internally within the Housing Corporation?
We try and respond as positive as possible, of course, as a government and again, we use allocations by a needed basis and we make sure that we mention these to the federal government, at the same time that we are meeting with them, that there’s petitions coming in from different communities that urgently need housing, as every community in Nunavut needs housing. We try and put them in there.
Again, we still use the community in need basis as we have been using them for several years.
So that’s how we deal with that.
We want to respond as positive as possible to the petitions, and again, we always allocate our houses by needs basis, and that’s how we deal with it.
Mr. Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the minister for that.
The reason I asked that question was because I think there’s a sense out there in the communities that are writing a petition and get 400 to 500 signatures on it and sending it to the minister that somehow magically their communities are going to get more houses.
I sympathize with the local housing organizations and the individuals, but I wanted you to give them a sense that developing petitions and sending them to you is not in vain, that they are going to be taken seriously, and that you will communicate with your federal counterparts that there’s a growing crisis in the communities, and that you have the evidence in the form of petitions to show them.
So I’m glad to hear that you are treating them seriously and you are trying to keep a positive outlook on the crisis situations.
I don’t know how you could be positive when there’s a crisis, but I guess you have to try to be; otherwise there would be no hope.
I think that’s what we have right now as we’ve got to have some hope.
I’m going to end my comments at that right now, Mr. Chairman, and I will have my colleagues ask him.
Just to go off a little bit with what Mr. Peterson’s talking about when he’s dealing with construction costs for houses, I know one of the biggest costs is transportation, just getting the stuff from down south up here.
One of the things that the city’s committee is looking at the deep-sea port here is that they are saying that they think that that would help reduce the transportation costs on construction materials throughout the region here because of the turnaround time, bringing stuff up, and the potential for backhauling stuff out.
I am just wondering if the minister, or you, the staff, could potentially be a way to help lower the construction costs, or finding ways to lower the transportation costs?
The deep-sea port highly would benefit Iqaluit. I don’t know if it would benefit any other community, as it would only work here. It will benefit in the long run, especially in economic ways.
Again I think it will just benefit this community, and not be a benefit to other communities to construct material-wise in housing.
It would benefit the community of Iqaluit.
We both have to study through our backup documents, at this time, but Mr. Tootoo, these are your questions.
In looking at the headquarters function is to provide the overall support to the regional offices and that. I know as a couple of people sitting up at the witness table are well aware that I used to work with the housing corporation prior to division.
What I saw at that time was a much larger corporation. At the time of division coming up the whole idea was to put housing in Community Government Housing and Transportation. At the time we were saying, “Don’t stick the corporation into a government department.”
You didn’t listen, as usual.
They stuck it in the department.
It went through one department, got raped of duties and people, and came out with, if you look at the regional office here, I think prior to division there was 23 or 26 staff at the regional level, and I think the office now has got seven, eight staff.
It has half of what it used to have, or less, or more, I don’t know, it’s got zero.
I don’t think it has zero but the regional district office, as just as an example, the staffing levels dropped drastically. Even if you look at the size of the overall department’s budget, when it comes to just O&M and that is what we’re looking at; it’s one of last ones that we’re looking at; which would mean it’s one of the smallest departments, or corporations in the budgets that we look at.
I would think with the department that looks after a function that is, as my colleague had said, in a crisis, that a little more emphasis that we put on it to try and address exactly that, the crisis that we face in housing.
I don’t know if the minister or his officials can give any thoughts at looking at trying to find ways to bring back the corporation to the levels that it used to be at, or work towards that so that you can have the human resources to try and deal with the crisis that we face.
How much of the crisis that we face is related to the lack of people to work and deal with these issues, I guess is the point I’m getting to.
After the corporation went through the departments and came out a lot lighter, and then it ended up going back to where it is today, which is right where it was before division, except there are a lot less people working there.
I just find that really odd.
If we could look back and say; “I told you so”, now would be a good time to do that.
If I could just get some thoughts from the minister on any thought that they have of looking to try and expand the resources of the corporation to address this crisis that we face throughout the territory in housing.
Thank you, Mr. Chianti.
Chairman: I’ve heard every name this past couple of weeks.
In regards to our staff in Nunavut, and in the three regions, we have 20 in Baffin, 12 in the Kitikmeot, and 12 in the Keewatin. We do all we can to make sure that everything is in order, because we do appreciate our staff.
I think that as the Housing Corporation, once everything is in order...well everything is in order, but we will be looking at where we can improve operations.
We’re working as hard as we can to make sure that everything is in order.
We’re almost there, but we have five new staff. We have increased our staff by five to make sure that we have enough staff to deal with all the programs and services.
It’s good to hear that they’re working on it.
My next question, again, goes back to housing costs. I know, again, prior to division, although not right up to the end, it was a little earlier then that when it was MACA at the time that used to do land development.
And they dumped it off onto the hamlets to develop the land. Then it just basically got dumped on to housing to pay for those lot developments through equity leases or whatever mechanism the hamlet chooses for developing its lots.
But again, that took that much more money out of the corporation’s budget to build houses just to get lots ready to put them on; something that another government department used to do.
Has the minister discussed with his cabinet colleagues that with the increasing costs of land development, especially in some of the communities of getting sites prepared for that, of alternate ways of funding those projects other than through basically the corporation paying for lots at full costs which takes the housing dollars away from building houses, and puts it towards developing land.
Has the minister looked at discussing that with his Cabinet colleagues to try and find other sources to try and obtain some funding to develop the land in the communities?
It is something that we have listed for in this year’s contract with Community and Government Services and we’ll do it and look into and that’s what we are going to do this year. It’s in our agenda as Pinasuaqtavut states that we should.
I have no other names on my list for L-11. I have no other names on my list. We’ll move on to L-8.
Thank you. (interpretation ends) L-9. Information item. District Offices.
That is for information only.
Affordable Housing Programs.
L-11.
If there are no questions, we’ll then move onto to L-4. (interpretation ends) Nunavut Housing Corporation.
Department Summary. Nunavut Housing Corporation.
Total Operations and Maintenance. $95,121,000.
Does the committee agree that the Nunavut Housing Corporation is concluded?
Minister Akesuk and staff; thank you for providing valuable information to the committee today.
Do you have any closing comments Mr. Akesuk?
Thanks to my staff, and thanks to Mr. Tootoo, and the rest of his colleagues, and also William, and the translators.
I take it you’re done with your departments.
I would now like to ask Minister Simailak from the Department of Finance to make his opening remarks.
Bill 12 – Appropriation (Operations & Maintenance) Act, 2006-07 – Review in Committee – Finance
I am pleased to appear before the committee both to discuss the 2006-07 Main Estimates for the Department of Finance, as well as the 2006-07 Business Plan.
Again, I will highlight our territory-wide efforts then go into more detail regarding our department-specific initiatives and budget.
The department will continue to work with the Department of Economic Development and Transportation to stimulate more economic development within Nunavut.
The department also will continue to play a role in the devolution negotiating process especially with respect to resource revenues and fiscal benefits.
This work combined with our continued efforts to strengthen Nunavut’s fiscal base should result in greater self-sufficiency in the long-term.
In recent months, the department has provided a series of presentations to the federally appointed Expert Panel on equalization and territorial formula financing in an effort to have transfers that are able to support the fiscal needs of our territory.
In addition, the department has provided information to the Advisory Panel on the fiscal imbalance that has been established by the Council of the Federation. The Advisory Panel on the fiscal imbalance has been briefed on Nunavut’s views to alleviate existing problems within the federation, and to alleviate the fiscal imbalance that exists today in Canada.
I will now turn, Mr. Chairman, to some of the major priorities of the department.
We have a financial internship program, which is designed to give beneficiaries practical work exposure and the basic academics, so that they can take on financial positions within the Department of Finance.
By the end of the 2006-07 fiscal year, Finance will achieve the goal of graduating 10 beneficiaries through this program, and acquiring permanent positions with the department.
During the 2006-07 fiscal year, the department plans to develop and implement a comprehensive Government of Nunavut-wide strategy to recruit, train, and retain financial management staff in order to strengthen financial management.
We are establishing a treasury function within the Department of Finance to monitor and manage the cash resources, borrowing programs, and all investment and debt activities of the government.
We are continuing to place a major emphasis on strengthening financial management.
We will be working towards accrual based budgeting, performance measurement standards, developing a loss prevention plan for capital assets, strengthening the capital planning process, and defining common financial terms in Inuktitut.
Through the Crown Agency Council, the Internal Audit Committee and the Financial Management Committee, we will continue to strengthen financial management in departments and public agencies.
I will now turn to a brief overview of the department’s budget.
Finance has six branches; Directorate, Policy and Planning, Financial Management, Internal Audit Services, Comptrollership, and the Centrally Administered Funds.
For 2006-07, the Department of Finance has allocated $50.2 million in operations and maintenance expenditures, as compared to $49.1 million for the previous year.
The major components of the department’s budget are $21.4 million for total compensation and benefits; $28.9 million for total centrally administered programs and costs including $9.7 million for government-wide employee benefits such as dental premiums, worker’s compensation premiums, and employee medical travel; $10.5 million for the leased costs of the Legislative Assembly Building and other office buildings constructed by the Nunavut Construction Corporation prior to April 1, 1999; $5.8 million for the regular Nunavut Electricity Subsidy Program; $2.9 million for Government of Nunavut’s insurance premiums; and $3.1 million for other operations and maintenance costs in the department.
Compared to the 2005-06 main estimates, the significant changes are: $0.6 million increase to fund the new positions in the policy and planning branch; $0.7 million increase in the Nunavut Electricity Subsidy Program; $0.7 million increase in insurance premiums; and a $0.2 million decrease in pay-equity costs.
The department currently has a complement of 175 funded person years, comprised of; 128 at headquarters, 17 in the Qikiqtaaluk, 16 in the Kivalliq, and 14 in the Kitikmeot.
In addition, there are 11 positions funded under the Liquor Revolving Fund, of which seven are in Rankin Inlet, and four in Iqaluit.
In summary, the department’s focus for 2006-07 will be to continue to provide central agencies in areas that include support for the Financial Management Board, managing the government’s overall fiscal position, and overseeing the financial framework, and accounting processes.
From Minister Simailak, we will go directly to the chair of the standing committee for his comments. Does the chair have comments?
Mr. Tootoo: Yes, I do, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
Chairman: Thank you. Please proceed, Mr. Tootoo.
I am pleased to provide you with the committee’s comments on the 2006-07 Main Estimates and Business Plan of the Department of Finance.
The committee notes that the department’s proposed budget of $50,186,000 is over 80 percent higher than the department’s initial allocation of $27,548,000 in 1999-2000.
The department’s budget has increased by just over two percent from the 2005-06 revised main estimates.
Members recognize that a significant amount of the department’s budget is allocated for such government-wide functions as employee benefits, commercial leases, insurance coverage, and energy subsidies.
Members recognize the role that the department plays as a central agency. One of the most important functions that the department performs is coordinating the government’s budget development process and preparing the main estimates, capital estimates and the Public Accounts.
Mr. Chairman, the standing committee has been informed by GN witnesses that there is a climate of “passive non-compliance” on the part of some GN entities when it comes to following the rules and getting things done and submitted on time. This is a very disturbing revelation.
The Auditor General’s recently-tabled report to the Legislative Assembly indicated that there were “extraordinary delays” in tabling the government’s 2003-04 financial statements.
These were not made available to members until 20 months after the fiscal year-end, and 11 months after the statutory deadline.
Continued delays in tabling the annual reports of certain Crown agencies are also evident. These are issues that the standing committee anticipates examining during its upcoming hearings on the Auditor General’s Report.
Over the past several years, Members of the Legislative Assembly have consistently called on the department to enhance the transparency and accountability of government operations through such measures as ensuring that the government’s financial statements are tabled within the timelines established by law, and expanding the level of detail contained in financial documents, including information on prior years’ actual expenditures.