EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Tapardjuk and welcome Mr. Akeeagok
I’ll give the members 10 minutes of general comments.
I don’t see anyone with their hands up.
We’re on F-5. Department of Culture, Language, Elders and Youth Branch Summary and Directorate.
Total operations and maintenance, $3,247,000, do you agree?
Chairman: Thank you. (interpretation) Mr. Minister, if could introduce your official that just came in before we proceed. (interpretation ends) Mr. Minister.
On my right is David Kolot, who is in charge of the operations of Department of Culture, Language, Elders and Youth.
Welcome, Mr. Kolot.
We are on page F-7. (interpretation ends) Department of Culture, Language, Elders and Youth.
Official Languages.
Total Operations and Maintenance. $2,192,000, do you agree?
To F-9.
Culture and Heritage.
Total Operations and Maintenance. $3,809,000, Mr. Mapsalak.
I wanted to ask a question on this page.
I just read the ‘Globe and Mail’ and there’s going to be an exhibition of Inuit artifacts.
I think there are quite a number of artifacts that are going to be shown in the exhibition and it’s going to be in Toronto.
In the Vatican in Italy, some artifacts are owned by the Inuvialuit, but I am sure that there are a lot of artifacts that belong to Nunavut and very likely, those artifacts were brought down by the missionaries and other Europeans.
I am very glad to see that there’s going to be an exhibition of Inuit artifacts in Italy or outside of Canada, but we have yet to see an exhibition of artifacts here at home in Nunavut.
I am sure that there are other Inuit artifacts that are housed or being exhibited in other parts of the country.
I would like to see more exhibitions held up here in Nunavut because I am sure that there are people out there who are interested in seeing those artifacts.
When or how are we going to hold exhibitions or when are we going to be building a heritage centre or museum up here in Nunavut; when and how?
As I stated earlier, we are looking at a Nunavut museum or a heritage centre.
When we were having our retreat in Arviat, we were urged by the members to establish a heritage centre here in Nunavut.
We have a planning committee with involvement from Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated, the Nunavut Government, and the Inuit Heritage Trust.
Just recently, we are looking at a feasibility study and we have an approximate figure, but the problem is where we are going to access or leverage some money to make this a reality; only if we identify funds could be build a museum that properly house those artifacts, and only when we do have such a facility can we start repatriating those artifacts.
They are jointly owned by the Government of Nunavut and Inuit Heritage Trust but because we don’t have the proper facilities they are presently housed in the Yellowknife Museum and Ottawa.
As you mentioned, those artifacts are being exhibited in Iglulik and only through negotiations with the proper governments can we repatriate some of those artifacts.
There are artifacts housed in Europe and also in the States.
As that is the case the Canadian Museum of Civilization has some of our properties housed and Parks Canada and also the Prince of Whales Heritage Center in Yellowknife.
We are currently working on this as it is identified under the Nunavut Land Claim Agreement.
We won’t get those artifacts over night but I can guarantee you that we will build a museum here in Nunavut and then we’ll start thinking about how we can repatriate those artifacts.
To supplementary my question, how are you looking at building one museum or one heritage centre or are you going to be building several.
We would like to build a Nunavut Heritage Centre and of course there is only going to be one but we would like to find out where we can get some money to do a feasibility study.
Of course we’re going to get all the aspects of building a museum or heritage centre and the price tag of it.
If we’re going to be building such a centre, we will do all we can to make sure that it’s properly built but then again we’ve talked to some of the smaller communities where there would be Nunavut Heritage Centre and then subsidiaries or little museums scattered.
There is consulting that is required and I can’t at this moment say when or how.
We’re just in the planning stages but I can guarantee you that there is more coming up.
I would also like to thank the Minister.
I’m sure it’s going to be one of the most beautiful.
Where will would this Inuit Heritage Centre be built.
At this present moment we have not made any decisions as to where it’s going to be but as I said we will have to do a feasibility study first.
We do have an approximate figure but we’ll have to find out exactly how much it’s going to cost for the overall project and then the cabinet will have to decide where it’s going to be located.
In the first assembly they identified several communities.
The top listing were Iqaluit first of all, Rankin Inlet second, and then Arviat was third.
We’re going to be looking at those communities and look at the financial aspects of it but at this point I can’t say where it’s going to be located.
We are focusing on where we are going to be getting the money.
I have a question regarding our heritage sites.
You are required to have a license if you are going to do any searching or any digging in those heritage sites.
Usually the archaeologists can date how old the artifacts are.
Do we have such things going on in our government?
I will have my deputy respond to the question.
All archaeological digs have to have a license and they usually have to produce a report.
If they are going to be doing any digging in areas that are close to the communities, they will have to consult with the communities prior.
Mr. Alagalak (interpretation): My question was when they are trying to get a license from the federal government.
Usually when they are trying to get a license and when they are talking to the elders in the communities to dig.
Do they ask the elders if they don’t mind if they dig in certain sites?
When they are filling out the forms the copies are given to the communities.
They identify what the archaeologists are looking for and what the community thinks about it.
That is usually filled out in the form.
They usually get their license from the Department of Culture, Language, Elders and Youth.
Only do we issue a license after we have consulted with the community.
The Inuit Heritage Trust is also involved in this process.
You said the archaeologists work with the students.
I would like to ask you another question.
The artifacts are found at a site that used to belong to Inuit.
Some artifacts are very old and some are even older, unfortunately, they’re grouped together.
Have you considered, like for example, in the Kitikmeot, once they dig up old artifacts and once the artifacts have been identified have you considered the artifact to be brought to Iqaluit if the museum is set in Iqaluit?
Wouldn’t you think that the Kitikmeot residents would like see the artifact and the oral stories of the Kitikmeot region if the Heritage Centre is housing the Kitikmeot artifacts?
They would have a long way to look at the artifacts and it would be very expensive to come up to see their artifacts.
I was wondering if you have considered this issue where the Nunavut geography is vast.
I was wondering if you considered that?
Mr. Akeeagok.
Mr. Akeeagok (interpretation): Yes, once the artifacts are dug up they are stored in proper storage because we don’t have proper storage for our artifacts, then these artifacts after they’ve been dug up, they’re sent to Yellowknife where they have proper facilities.
One we build proper facilities, then we’ll be able to house them because they have to stored under controlled temperatures.
Then we’ll be able to send the artifacts out to tour the communities.
I’m sure this process will continue.
That’s how the artifacts are sent to the communities to be shown but they are properly stored before they are sent out to communities.
That’s how the system works and I’m sure that it will continue to work that way.
The artifacts can be sent out to the communities.
If they need to be sent back to the local origin, we do that by way of sending them out to the communities.
Mr. Alagalak (interpretation): Thank you, Deputy Minister and Mr. Chairman.
I believe that we need to consider the artifacts more because in Yellowknife where they store their artifacts, they used to belong to the community residents grandparents.
These people I believe should have the right see what their grandparents or forefathers had owned.
Once you start dealing with artifacts and archeology, you become addicted to it so I believe there should be consideration given to the artifacts and it will be expensive.
Another question that I would like pose is for many years archeologists have worked up on one certain site where they dig up artifacts from under the ground.
I wonder how much one site would cost where they train the students while on an archeological dig.
Hon. Louis Tapardjuk (interpretation): I will have my Deputy Minister respond to the question Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Akeeagok: The costs varies.
For archeological students, Inuit Heritage Trust has been training students everywhere, whether it be in Repulse Bay or Kugluktuk.
Although I don’t see the price listing right away but they send out open applications.
For one site in Kugluktuk, it cost $5 thousand to teach when they work with the students.
Usually they can apply.
Archeologists can make an application.
When they want to train and work with students, it costs a different amount.
My last question is, prior to the 1980s, if an individual was born in Nunavut, any individual, as long as they were Inuk, they were able to dig up a site even without a license.
We had the right to dig at any site.
What’s the status of that now.
Chairman (interpretation): Who would like to respond.
The regulations state no one is allowed to dig up artifacts without a permit.
The Inuit Heritage Trust and the Department of Culture, Language, Elders and Youth have had advised everyone not to look for artifacts because the southerners who come up north, tourists, we have seen non-natives trying to take artifacts home just because they like to own one, but they could even be liable or taken to court.
If anyone finds an artifact, last year we made a poster stating that you literally break the law if you try to get any artifacts without any permit or license.
Since we have inherited that Act from Northwest Territories, so therefore we don’t have an Act that’s solely geared towards Nunavut, but since we have inherited the Heritage Act, we have not made it a made-in-Nunavut Act.
But in Article 23 of the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement, it states that provided that as long as they are in Nunavut Land Claims settlement area, we have to inform the Canadian Museum of Civilization and Parks Canada at all times if someone happens to find an artifact.
I am not too sure if this Act or if this regulation was still the same prior to the 1980s.
As I have stated earlier on that this Act was inherited from the Northwest Territories, so that’s where we stand.
I almost forgot what my question was.
Let me ask you two more questions; I want you to respond with a yes or a no with the question I am about to pose.
Since all Nunavummiut are not allowed to dig any artifacts, are they aware of that?
(Nodding of the head) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Hon. Louis Tapardjuk (interpretation): Yes, they know.
Then it’s evident that since 50 years ago I was able to see artifacts that were dug up by people who lived in their old outpost camp or when they find their old sod houses then they start digging and digging.
I am sure there are other people out there that own an artifact and they were taken prior to the Act’s implementation.
Are they liable or are they guilty?
Hon. Louis Tapardjuk (interpretation): I will have my deputy minister respond to that as to whether they broke the law or not.
Mr. Akeeagok (interpretation): Yes, they would break the law if they happened to have an artifact at home.
We know since the Nunavut territory was created, nobody has ever been charged for that, and in some cases in the past, yes, they have taken some artifacts.
Once we build a proper facility to house the artifacts, then we can announce to the people that if you have old artifacts, then you can bring them so some people know where to take them to.
Once we get a proper facility, then our staff will try to obtain some artifacts.
Some individuals release their artifacts voluntarily but we’ve never been in the position to take anyone to court.
We just try to inform the public out there that you are literally breaking the law if you have an artifact.
So, we try to inform them that way.
It would be ideal if you give that artifact to the museum or Inuit Heritage Trust.
Before it was known by the people that there is such a law, would they have any chances of not pleading guilty if they didn’t know that there was such a law, that they’re not supposed to have those artifacts or would they still have to go to court.
According Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit, they shouldn’t be put through court.
We have not thought about whether an individual would have to go to court for taking artifacts without knowing the legislation.
There are a lot of people that have taken artifacts from the land but the Inuit Heritage Trust guidelines have to be followed.
Inuit Heritage Trust were the people that looked after those types of things.
We have not spoken with Inuit Heritage Trust about what might happen if someone didn’t know there was such a law and they had taken artifacts and what we would do about them.
I wouldn’t be able to answer that question.
It’s good that you respond to me like that Mr. Minister for the record.
Say, for instance, there is a bunch of artifacts that are in the hands of some people and the individual that has those artifacts would say I have these artifacts here.
It seems like talking about it wouldn’t matter.
Hon. Louis Tapardjuk (interpretation): Nobody has approached us on this issue.
We have not really looked at the Northwest Territories regulations yet because we might have to do some amendments of those regulations to conform to Nunavut.
Mr. Alagalak (interpretation): Lastly, Mr. Chairman, just to comment, I know that there is going to be problems encountered from those people who have taken artifacts from Nunavut.
They will just leave it in their will to leave it to their families I guess.
I think we have to look at the act to make sure that the legislation is in place to protect the artifacts.
I just have a question Mr. Chairman.
Could the Minister inform the public about the protection about Inuit artifacts.
About a week ago there was an elders meeting and maybe he could state.
We had an elders gathering not too long ago because we want to have in place a plan that the Inuit traditions would be followed in each community.
Hon. Louis Tapardjuk (interpretation): We have Plan A in place and a designated community in Arviat.
After that elders' meeting we heard from them and that was very helpful for our department.
There is a Planning Committee consisting of Justice and the other departments about the Inuit way of doing things from long ago.
Even though it is a present day today, we could have them help us so we feel that some time in the beginning of April they will bring about the report that they did and the Executive will be looking at it to see exactly how this is going to be done.
It is in a planning stage right now after the elders had their meeting.
Following Mr. Mapsalak’s and Mr. Alagalak’s comments there is an individual that saw an amauti that belonged to the mother.
It was in a museum and they couldn’t even touch that piece of amauti.
I will not be mentioning names but there are a lot of artifacts that belong to Nunavummiut that aren’t just in the States but also in Canada.
Are you working with the Minister for Intergovernmental Affairs to repatriate those things?
We are not working with that department for the reason that there are a lot of artifacts that are housed, or in locations down south.
What we are doing is working with Inuit Heritage Trust to be able to repatriate those artifacts.
We have to have an agreement and to negotiate with those individuals just in case we get our own museum we would have to think about what kind of negotiations that we would strike with those individuals down south and in the States.
What is your department going to be doing about the Franklin Expedition artifacts that have been found here in Nunavut?
What is going to happen to them because we don’t have a license or permit to take from the other countries?
The non-native artifacts that were taken in that regard, I’ll get Mr. Akeeagok to answer.
Mr. Akeeagok: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
We are working with the Inuit Heritage Trust and the planning committee is in the process of planning as to how we can get a museum here in Nunavut.
From there, we have to negotiate with those individuals down south to repatriate those artifacts from them.
Just a little while ago, this past summer, around the Iglulik airport, there was an archeological dig that happened last summer.
They dug up some artifacts around the Iglulik airport and they also did some digging around the Pond Inlet area.
I wonder where they’re putting them.
Some of them have been brought to the Yellowknife museum and some of them are at the universities.
All the archeological artifacts that were found are housed in Yellowknife.
They have been given to the government.
The permit given from Inuit Heritage Trust and the government, it doesn’t matter where they’re at as long as their kept in proper facilities.
As soon as we have our facilities, we will repatriate them.
Thank you, Mr. Barnabas.
In regards to this discussion, Inuit have been working on artifacts for quite a while and it’s our tradition.
I also know from my community, ever since I was growing up there have been people looking for artifacts in my area such as my parents.
Whenever they don’t have anything to do, they look for artifacts.
Even though some of them are no longer living, they’ve been digging for artifacts since the 1940s in my community.
My question Mr. Chairman, is under F-11.
Toponomy programs for the traditional names of communities.
This has been a program every year in the amount of $100 thousand.
How many communities take advantage of traditional place names.
I’ll get my Deputy Minister to repond to that question.
In 2003/04, there were 9 different communities that took advantage of that funding.
Chairman (interpretation): Mr. Kattuk
I thank Mr. Akeeagok.
Whenever a community requests for funding, do they give them funding or do they get other equipment to do their traditional place naming?
Say for instance if an individual is doing traditional place naming, how is the money used?
What do they have to buy?
Hon. Louis Tapardjuk (interpretation): The promotion and preservation of traditional place names is done by people in the community by looking at the map and finding out the traditional name of that area close to their community.
There’s a person in Igloolik that deals with maps and what they do is they send them to Igloolik to preserve them and to promote them, but the money is there for each community to do traditional place names for preservation and promotion.
I heard that the artifacts that people find sometimes are trapped in universities.
Do the Inuit take a course on those things or is it just non-natives that are taking those archaeological digging courses?
Hon. Louis Tapardjuk (interpretation): Yes, whoever wants to go digging comes from the universities and they want to get a license or a permit to do some digging.
Some university students ask for a permit to do some digging and they would keep whatever they dig out, they would keep it for a little bit, but then they would eventually be given to a museum either in Yellowknife or in Ottawa.
As soon as we are able to get a facility here in Nunavut, we would repatriate those and work with the Inuit Heritage Trust.
Maybe I didn’t understand it right.
You indicated that they are used in the universities for courses and I believe that’s a response you gave him when he was asking questions.
That’s all I have, Mr. Chairman.
As my colleague from Arviat stated that we have to try and collect artifacts.
So for those people who have found artifacts, what I would like to say, Mr. Chairman, is this is truly part of heritage, but for those of us who can read in English that original Coral Harbour residents who were from the Southampton Island are no longer around.
And you’ve probably read that it was stated by the anthropologists but at this time in age, it’s not through and our great, great, grandfather had three adopted children.
I believe two are deceased and one just recently, maybe about two years ago, they have descendents, the daughters.
They are the original Coral Harbour residents and Mr. Bruce also stated that one went to Iglulik.
This should be made a history project to get the records straight because our history should be correct and Mr. Chairman, also, the original Sallungmiut, Coral Harbour, there are a lot of archeological sites, old camps and a lot of artifacts have been taken.
I am one of them who took some.
They can become heritage sites.
What I would like to ask the Minister, you should start working with the residents of Coral Harbour and we see those sites during the summer when we’re out camping and there should be proper burials because you occasionally see skulls here and there.
Just last spring there was a skull and I know that area because I used to live there.
I feel there should be a proper burial site project.
There would also be a healing if they did that.
For those people, I encourage them, telling them that this is very important.
Once I tell them Ipiaq Saimanaq who are the descendents of those.
If I can’t, some time in the future, I want them to be recognized because that was a certain group of race.
They were not the main land tribe.
Some of them came from Baffin Island and from Northern Quebec.
Mr. Chairman, can the Minister ask Coral Harbour residents to have a proper burial site.
If they were to ask, would you support it.
Yes, there is funding available for those kinds of things and I would like to state that my original name is Qingaut and I’m named after one of those original people who went to Iglulik.
I would also like to comment on artifacts as well.
In 1984, around those years the people who came to look for artifacts in Kugluktuk had stated that they had a license to do this to look for artifact while I was a member of the Hamlet Council.
We had stated that once they found something that they had to inform the Hamlet Council.
Once these were found, they were returned to the Hamlet Council, but these were, as we found out duplicates.
We were not sent the originals.
We had told the people looking for artifacts that they had to return what they found to the Hamlet Council, but once they have sent what we thought was an artifact, but it was a duplicate, it wasn’t the original that was sent back to the community.
What I feel is that when artifacts are found I think we should have these displayed in the schools where our students can learn about the artifacts and where they came from.
Having said that I would like to ask the minister, as far as artifacts are concerned in the United States and southern Canada, perhaps overseas as well, can you request that these artifacts can be brought back to Nunavut so that we can place them in the schools?
Once we have a museum we can properly store them in our own museum.
Yes, sometimes they send artifacts from one community to another this probably can be arranged by you have to understand that they have to have a proper storage area, where the material will not get too dry, or deteriorate.
It has to be in the proper temperature.
We are in the process of discussing this with Inuit Heritage Trust, and if we are going to repatriate those artifacts, what do we have to store them in?
At this time I can say only when we have the proper place for them then we can bring the artifacts back.