EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
And the member is correct: before those changes were in place we did have a lot of concerns but I haven’t received any since before Christmas.
Mr. Alagalak (interpretation): Don’t worry, I am not going to finish all my seven minutes but what I am trying to say is that when they first put in the fuel in November after they were approved, because they took a month for their application to be approved, all they had was $50. And in the middle of the month when he receives their social security then that $50 in only good enough for 10 gallons and he expected to receive the full 2,500 litres.
They money they receive is insufficient to pay for the whole 2,500 litres.
Perhaps consult with the elders and get their input and I believe you need to enhance the program and to explain it further to the elders because the elders don’t have large sums of money and they can’t afford their fuel.
I just noticed that we have our Director of Income Support, who is the expert in this area: Ms. Sandy Teiman, who is here at the Legislative Assembly.
Bear with me. I would like to ask the Chairman if Sandy could join me as a witness at the table at during the income support area and then I will answer Mr. Alagalak’s question.
Chairman: Thank you, Minister. (interpretation) Does the committee agree to have the witness to be escorted to the witness table?
Chairman: Welcome Ms. Teiman.
Maybe, there is some confusion around the subsidy program so I will go through it just very quickly.
To be absolutely eligible for the senior fuel subsidy, the person has to live, of course, in Nunavut. They have to be 60 years of age or older. They have to own their own home that they live in and they should not be on income support.
That means when the member was talking earlier that they all have their income whether that be pension or what have you. And they also have to meet the maximum allowable household income, which we’ve increased. The maximum income now has been increased from $38,000 to $50,000 per income.
So those are the criteria that are in place. If the elder is living in public housing then those costs are already covered for them.
The only people that we’re talking about here are elders who own their own homes.
I don’t have the numbers right now. How many people were on that program last year?
We had about 60 people, 59, 60 in all of Nunavut who qualified for that program last year.
Mr. Alagalak (interpretation): Well, the issue I brought up if you can look into the 60 individuals that are receiving this program because I know for sure in those months while this program is being used that they are unable to get that support even though they try to apply for it because there’s no funding available for them to get 2,500 litres of fuel.
Perhaps discuss this matter to make sure that you improve this program.
If the elder is eligible under the program then we cover all costs, and the program runs all year; so any period in that 12-month period, not just in the winter months.
Mr. Alagalak: One if the things that I wonder if the minister would agree with me to look at the program again by interviewing someone that uses that program because they’re eligible for 2,000 to 2,500 litres of fuel but they don’t have that money to buy that much fuel during the duration that the program is open.
I was wondering if the minister would be able or willing to go back and interview some of the users of the program and make adjustments according to what their wishes are.
I understand what the member is saying and just for clarification under the program. There were a little over 60 people who used it last year in Nunavut.
We do cover all the costs.
On each season there is a one time top-up meaning that you get your tank filled up and then we would reimburse those costs, or you would receive credit for those costs.
We don’t expect the elder to pay for a full tank and then send a bill in and then get the money back. Once the tank is filled up the one-time shot they would get the credit back on it. That’s the way it would work.
They pay to get their tank filled up and then they can bring that receipt in and get that reimbursed.
Mr. Barnabas (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome Minister Picco, and your officials.
(interpretation ends) A supplementary question to my colleague’s, Mr. Alagalak. The business plans shows that the overall budget for the Seniors’ Fuel Subsidy Program will increase in 2007-08.
Will eligible seniors be entitled to an increase in benefits in 2007-08?
The cost of fuel has gone up.
That would be one factor for the increase. The second cost of the increase is the program numbers. As we said earlier, we increased the household threshold income from $39,000 to $50,000, and therefore the larger increase.
Mr. Barnabas: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. How many individuals take advantage this program on a yearly basis?
Hon. Ed. Picco: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The latest figures that I have in response to the Member from Arviat, we said that it was around 60.
The numbers I have for 2005-06 was 66 eligible elders who own their own homes were qualifying for the subsidy.
The business plans state that in 2005, over 75 percent of all households across Nunavut were on income support at some point during the year, with steadily increasing demands on income support services, especially by younger, single households across Nunavut.
How does the department plan to address the on going sustainability of this program?
Mr. Chairman, the member has raised a really huge area and that’s how do we help our people get employment so that they are not on income support. And if we can’t get them off income support, how sustainable is the program itself? We’ve seen the cost of income support increase as the population increases
I would suggest Mr. Chairman, that by having more economic opportunities in our communities for employment and so on, we see, you know, less people on income support. And that is where the sustainability of our program would come into play.
We know that there has been a fuel increase, a fuel price increase and there are some increases in fuel riders, power bills and so forth and so on.
Specifically, how has the cost of income support increased since mid-2003?
One of the biggest increases we saw in the income support program is when we indexed the amount that was received by income support clients. We increased that amount by 10 percent and then five percent, so that would be a 15 percent increase in the income support amount, so we actually gave out more benefits.
The second increase that we see in income support is because we have more people on uptake on the program. What that means is to be eligible for income support you have to be 18 years and over.
So that would all be covered under forced growth within the government itself. And changes in the rent scale would also mean more income support because again the income support pays the rent changes.
Last year members of the standing committee recommended a review of government social assistance regulations.
Has the department done so and if not, are there any plans to do so in the upcoming year.
We’ve reviewed the program as the member knows, and a good example is the increase we just talked about, increasing the elders’ fuel subsidy amount. That was again, in recognition of what we’ve heard here at the House.
So the last formal review of the regulations of the program was in the year 2000 I believe and we’ve changed many regulations over the years based on what the members have said here and what we’ve talked about. For example, clawing back the co-op dividend was another example that we heard in the House that we implemented.
Also looking at the threshold for family income from $35,000 to $50,000 to be eligible for the subsidy program again was another change that we made to the regulations to reflect what we’ve heard here in the house.
In the business plan G-11 there is income support payments of maybe $33,610,000 and in G-9 there’s no identified amount.
Can the minister explain where that money is?
The first amount that the member gave is the total amount of income support that is paid out. The second amount that the member gave was the amount under the headquarters budget of the area of income support.
Mr. Barnabas (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, I can’t find out where it is located. Could you identify exactly where it is?
I believe if we check on tab G-14, you will see the total amount of income support there, which is $26,603,000. That is the tab G-14. The other amount, as I said earlier, is a little over $2 million with the headquarters amount for staff at headquarters to facilitate the program of income support.
Mr Barnabas.
Mr. Barnabas (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I also would like to thank the minister. (interpretation ends) What is the status with individual communities to deliver the Income Support Program?
We are developing an options paper right now to look at that area.
When will the income support electronics delivery system be fully operational?
We’ve been looking at the implementation of a full electronic system for several years now and we can finally see light at the end of the tunnel.
I would hope to be in a position, that the department would have it in place by December 2007.
Have any new positions been assigned to implementing the system?
Hon. Ed. Picco: Not directly, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Barnabas (interpretation): My last question, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) On page G-14, will the implementation of the income support electronic delivery system result in any cost savings?
Hon. Ed. Picco: Thank you. Yes, we do look at; we have estimated some cost savings of about $300,000 a year on an annual basis.
Page G 9. Mr. Curley.
Mr. Curley: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank the minister and his officials.
I wanted further information on the Elders’ Fuel Subsidy Program.
It seems like it is a very appropriate program, in regard to the elders. I think it would be a lot better if you filled up the tank.
Did I understand it correctly when you said that if you fill up the tank that the individual would get the money back or get reimbursed from the government?
What we said was that under the Fuel Subsidy Program, depending on what community that you live in, between 2,500 and 3,175 litres of fuel are covered under the subsidy program.
So if you have paid for fuel, they come by and fill up your tank, and it’s 800 litres, then you pay for that, you keep your receipt and then you go get to income support and then you will be reimbursed for that amount.
The question the member for the Arviat riding raised was what if you don’t have the money to pay for that right at the beginning? Then we said that as a one time deal each season, we will pay for that up front and you don’t need the receipts.
I appreciate that simplified version. It’s different from the one that you provided to me last year; it appears to be much simpler. When did that change in policy occur because I was asking questions to you about it last year we had a maximum salary cap and if you exceeded that you did not qualify for the Senior Fuel Subsidy Program.
Which one of the versions are we using now?
I did not appear to see any announcement, or anything that this policy has changed.
The member is correct. What we have done is moved very quickly from the concerns raised in the House to simplify the program and make it more open and accountable.
So what we’ve done and changed is we’ve gone and set the household income from $35,000 to $50,000 for individual seniors. That has allowed a little bit more of an uptake on the program.
In the past the incomes ratio was set, that we brought forward from the GNWT, and I think it was set at $35,000 or $39,000. We’ve streamlined the program again and made it more conducive and more user friendly for the end user.
As I said earlier, 66 elders in Nunavut took advantage of this program last year.
This is good news. When did the policy come into effect because it certainly was different?
The reason why I am asking is because there have been some elders complaining to me about the way which they had to go through and it was so complicated.
You pretty well had to have a form similar to an Income Tax form, and so on, last year. Exactly when did this change in policy occur?
Hon. Ed. Picco: September 1, 2006.
Did the minister issue a press release? I must have missed it. I was out somewhere.
I want to say though that this is a good news announcement.
Is that pretty well publicized now in the communities?
We made that information available at our income support offices, as well as through the local media, for example, in the
newspapers, including, for example, the Kivalliq News. We have a new ad in the newspaper next week again on the program.
Mr. Curley: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
I’ll take a good look as well.
Aside from the newspaper information available could the minister or his officials provide me with the details of this program and the policy changes with respect to that?
In every member’s community at the income support office there is a package available. At the same time I’ll get through to staff that we’ll make a package available for all the members that they’d be able to take back with them on the program.
Mr. Curley: Thank you. I appreciate the changes. I compliment the minister and his staff for making that change because it is a very welcome change to the elders.
I have another follow-up question with respect to the, I don’t know exactly what you call them. Some of the benefits that the elders receive out of income support and beneficiaries are obviously penalized if they do get it.
How about a couple of programs; one you definitely indicated that the Nunavut Hunters’ Support Program was considered an income, which comes out the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement.
So to me the person who receives the snowmobile and that is about $10,000 worth or slightly less if it is a smaller machine. That is likely the whole year or almost a whole year income support and benefits package.
So can the minister confirm that isn’t the case that the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement provides through the Hunters’ Support Program is considered income?
In questions in the House, and here again in the Committee of the Whole, it is the third time today and I guess there is some confusion on this and I want to categorically state again for the record that all hunting equipment received is exempt from income support.
Meaning, if you received a machine from Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated, we don’t take that off from Income Support Program because you are making a productive choice and you are trying to provide sustenance to your family. That is not taken off.
It is not deducted. There is not a subtraction or a minus from the income support amount.
Mr. Curley: I’d like to thank the minister for clarifying that. I appreciate it and if I speak in Inuktitut I probably get a little clearer.
But the other question I have is with respect to the elders NTI related NTI benefit program, the $150 as well as a slightly less amount for certain groups and categories of people.
Can the Minister state whether or not these are considered income or exempt.
Again, when that is paid out to the elders it is exempt. It is not included in the income.
Mr. Curley: I appreciate that.
Thank you for that answer. I have a new question with respect to whether or not the policies or the guidelines are all the same in each given community, including Iqaluit. They use the same guidelines for applying and I see out there people that go through very difficult times.
I had one person, not long ago, a young lady who is a single parent going through a very difficult time as a homeowner with no heat and wasn’t able to go any where to get fuel.
The only consolation I can offer was I feel sorry for you.
What should a Member of the Legislative Assembly in a presence of that young lady do when she does receive a bit of income but not enough? That is all I had to offer was some sort of consolation. What should we do in a case like that?
That is a very difficult position to be in and I think most of us as Members of the Legislative Assembly have had to represent people who run into situations like that where people come to you for that type of help.
What I would suggest is that we have a look at reviewing the case. If a constituent like that comes forward then the member can ask that the income support worker review the person’s case to see what type of help we can do. In some cases, for example, they can do an advance on the next month’s income support and I know that there have been some cases like that done.
So there are some options available and that is what I would suggest to the member. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
But in a case like this that would have been a different supplementary benefit because the person is not in an income support category but going a very difficult time. Is there such any one-time income support benefit or an emergency benefit? Is there is any regulations that states so?
Hon. Ed. Picco: There are different categories under the Income Support Program. One of those programs would be in the case of an emergency situation. Again, that’s judged on its own merit, it is judged on the situation regarding the individual client.
That may be an avenue that the constituent in question may have an opportunity to have uptake on.
Branch Summary. Income Support.
Total Operations and Maintenance. $2,247,000. (interpretation) Do you agree?
Page G-10. G-11. G-12.
This is my old subject about student assistance; I think it is in G-11 and G-12.
It is G-11 of Student Financial Assistance, $5,607,000.
I have been barking at the government, I don’t know what a better word is for it, to analyze, review and reconsider some of the student loan programs, student grant programs under FANS, especially for a very important part of our society, those essential services like nursing and teachers.
I applaud the government for playing a lead role in getting a partnership for Akitsiraq Law School Program and now I read in the newspaper that the government will get $23 million for professional accountants; the federal government is partners.
Now for the nursing program and teacher education program, can you be more active or proactive in convincing those two departments the Department of Health and the Department of Education, I don’t know if the minister knows, Mr. Ed. Picco, to try to get a better living allowance because a lot of these students suffer from poverty, especially those with families when they are taking these courses.
Can you tell the House if you have plans to encourage those two departments to get a partnership from the federal government and in recognition of the shortage of nurses across Canada and in Nunavut? There is a very urgent need to have Inuktitut speaking nurses, especially to deal with elders and children.
The children also need to have familiarity with the person from the community to be comfortable in talking to them. These are the basic community needs and they should be reviewed more proactively to encourage Inuit to participate in that program. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I couldn’t agree more with the member on the premise.
The member will remember in 1999-2000 when, myself as the Health Minister and the member as the Education Minister went forward and tried to introduce the nursing program at that time.
I must say, and I am sure the member would agree with me, that we had quite a fight because there was $1 million a year to train nurses and we didn’t have support.
The member I am sure will, and we had quite a debate on that at a given Cabinet retreat. But we were successful and we did bring the program forward and I think it’s probably one of the better programs that the government has brought and I agree with the member that there is a need for trained nurses.
The nursing program itself has a number of scholarship programs available within it, including the Queen Elizabeth II Bursary that was introduced by this government to make it more cost conducive for the Nursing Students.
The bigger problem here, the bigger issue here is the total program, or the FANS benefit program and the degree program. Those are longer programs, a three to four year program that the students have to take and if you are a person like most of our students are not like in the south, where you are 16 years old and you’ve graduated and you go to college.
A lot of our students, 80 percent of our students would be single mothers or in common-law relationships or married and have dependants. And when you try to go to school for three or four years in a situation like that, it’s very difficult. I think the government realizes that.
What I’d like to do under the FANS benefit program, not just for the Nursing Program, but also for the NTEP program, because Mr. Berger points out that if we are truly going to have a bilingual education system from K to 12, we’ve got to have trained Inuktitut speaking teachers teaching. Not just teaching Inuktitut class one hour a day or one hour a week, but teaching the core courses in Inuktitut, geography in grade 10 to 12, teaching history in grade 10 to 12, so on and so forth. So I would support what the member has said again, we need to be able to look at what those cost factors are and be able to have that type of debate.
Page G-10.
Minister Picco and his staff, welcome.
Nunavut Arctic College has been designated to take the lead in a number of roles such as reviewing the Public Colleges Act.
Minister, can you tell me what specific recommendations of the Nunavut Adult Learning Strategy will be addressed as a priority during the upcoming fiscal year?
At this time, I’d like to take this opportunity to thank Ms. Sandy Teiman from Income Support who’s one of the longest serving income support workers in Canada in that role, for joining us at the witness table and take this opportunity to invite the President of Nunavut Arctic College Mr. Mac Clendenning to join us at the witness table.
Thank you, Sandy. (interpretation) Does the committee agree for Mac Clendenning to come to the witness table?
Sergeant-at-Arms, escort the witness please.
Welcome, Mr. Clendenning.
One of the major priorities of the government was the tabling of the Adult Learning Strategy, which we did in the last session. There are over 300 copies of the strategy that have been released throughout the Territory, and in the country.
Indeed we have highlighted the report from a wide variety of sources including the Canadian Polar Research Network as well as the Arctic Research Consortium in the United States and several different groups that have commented on the strategy.
Work is underway right now, to implement the Adult Learning Strategy. That would be the priority of the department over the next 12 months.
Mr. Evyagotailak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Also, thank you Minister.
As well as offering the current level of programming, Nunavut Arctic College has been tasked with leadership roles in a number of initiatives. How will the college be able to maintain its current level of service delivery and take on the new responsibilities without significant additional resources and funding?
The member is correct; it’s going to be a challenge for the college to look at how to balance the fiscal realities of the allocation with the new services that have been thrust upon it.
Over the last couple of days and today the Nunavut Arctic College Board of Directors is meeting, the Board of Governors is meeting. In this meeting, I believe they have actually picked a new Chair of the Board of Governors and a new Vice-Chair of the Board of Governors and they are tackling those issues right now.
As we work through our budget and with new monies presented, maybe there will be some opportunities to do some rebasing.
Mr. Evyagotailak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks again, Minister.
During its recent public review of Nunavut Arctic College, the standing committee heard a number of community concerns with respect to the Financial Assistance for Nunavut Students Program.
What has the department done to improve service delivery of the FANS Program?