EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Mr. Curley: But if the senior was quite an adaptive business sort of individual, I bet you he would not just want to give it over to the housing corporation for free.
Why should the elder give it to you for free, if there was eventually a buyer that could have sold it but couldn’t in view of the many number of factors.
Why is the Housing Corporation not prepared to consider paying a portion of the total price of that house?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’ll get Mr. Scott to respond to the question.
We would look at the third option of turning the house over to the housing corporation in particular if the second option wasn’t available.
If there was no market in the community, for example, then the only other option is to turn it over to the housing corporation. And the way that we look at it, is that once we convert it to a public housing unit, then the elder, or disabled homeowner can remain in that house, and it’s going to cost the corporation up to $20,000 a year to maintain and pay for the utilities and operate that home for the length of time that elder or disabled individual remains an occupant of that house.
In a sense, it’s sort of like a reverse mortgage where from the day we take it over, we’re returning $20,000 a year of the equity that the elder had built in the house until the elder no longer lives in the house.
Hopefully the counsellor would actually ensure that the potential person living in that unit fully understands the economic value of that unit.
The third option may sound good; you’re relieved of all your stress of maintaining responsibility for your mortgage as well as your insurance as well as all your other costs, but in the end, you don’t really have a property that has significant value.
What I’m trying to get at is that you make sure that person fully understands because having that asset as a value is really quite important not only to the individual, but to his status with the local banks as well as the others.
So I hope you will communicate what the consequences would be if that were to happen; that he would lose all his asset value if he were to give it back to you, but that he would be relieved from any pressure, the way I understand it.
(interpretation) Would you commit to doing that? Thank you.
Yes, we’ll do that.
Like we said; we’ll have a series of counselling with the person who is doing that.
I would like ask the minister a question on page L-22 of the business plan, under the priorities for 2008; the Housing Trust Delivery Strategy.
I recall reading in the strategy that there is an initiative to establish Community Development Corporations.
I wonder if the minister can expand on that initiative and clarify how they will be set up and how they will be financed.
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk: I’ll get Mr. Scott to respond to that.
We have suggested as one of the last resort options if the community doesn’t have a construction base, there are no construction companies in the community; that one of the options is to establish a Community Development Corporation similar to what now exists in several communities; Chesterfield Inlet, Arctic Bay, Gjoa Haven, comes to mind.
Other than that, that was our total involvement in recommendation to that. After that, it is up to the communities to decide how they want to go about that, working with their Community Economic Development Officer at the hamlet and whatnot.
Developing a business plan for the Development Corporation; that’s not something that we would be involved in.
It’s more the role of the CEDO in the community.
Nunavut has many construction companies and they spend a lot of money getting established: they apply for loans from the bank, and the Nunavut Business Credit Corporation and have many years of experience behind them, plus experienced staff behind them as well.
I am wondering if the minister could comment on if he is concerned that there’ll be any impact on the Nunavut businesses, by the establishment of Community Development Corporations, by the hamlets right across Nunavut.
In regard to the development corporations we have written a letter telling them that they have the right of first refusal. It would be a benefit to both the government and the development corporations. We’d like to make sure that they are a stabilized company.
They are already in the community and we would utilize them during the construction season.
We visited the majority of the communities to find out what resources are available to make sure that we have the companies to build those houses.
Could the minister give us an indication of where all the Community Development Corporations are being established?
If he has a list that he could table in the House.
We’re only aware of three development corporations.
Maybe there’s more but we only have three that are listed with us.
If a business doesn’t exist in a community, and they establish a community development corporation, can a contractor from another community joint venture with the community development corporation to build all the houses in that community?
How would that arrangement work? Is it possible?
Yes. That is possible.
On page L-23 of the business plan the Housing Corporation is indicating that one of its priorities for 2007 is to tender proposals to conduct a Housing Needs Study in 2007, which will provide a clear picture of the actual needs. Earlier the minister mentioned the Ten-Year Inuit Housing Action Plan.
I wonder if the minister could clarify what the difference would be between the Housing Needs Study in 2007 and the Ten Year Inuit Housing Strategy, which was completed and tabled approximately two years ago.
Do you need some additional information that will help in Ottawa?
We want to make sure that we have clear numbers and make it a lot more accurate, as we’re going pretty fast; like the consensus is that we’re going ten percent. That’s pretty fast. We have to make sure that we have the accurate numbers so that we make sure that we send the right message to the federal government.
Can the minister indicate does he have an estimated cost to complete the housing needs study in 2007?
Maybe $500,000 to $750,000 to do the study.
Can the minister or Mr. Scott expand a little bit on exactly how the Housing Corporation is going to undertake the housing needs study and who’s going to be consulted and involved across Nunavut?
The majority of the work, on the ground anyway, that would be done during a full blown needs study would be handled at the community level at the local housing organization, whether it’s an association or the hamlet. It would involve, in each community, hiring additional staff over and above the current contingents to do a door-to-door survey and to ensure that every household in every community is surveyed as part of it.
One of the concerns, I guess, over the data provided through the aboriginal housing survey that we have been using and the Canada Census is that it’s not 100 percent. Every household is not contacted and it’s not 100 percent reporting. We want to make sure that we know the condition of every house, and the number of people in every house, and the number of bedrooms in every house.
Not just on the public housing, but the staff housing, private home ownership and non-government staff housing. There is a lot of work that also has to be done up front in developing the survey and hiring a coordinator to be able to coordinate it.
And at the end of the survey there is a lot of work involved in doing data entry and analyzing the data that is received and collected at the community level.
It certainly seems like an imposing project for 2007, I hope that it gathers the information required to make a sound compelling argument again in Ottawa.
It seems like we have to do that on a constant annual basis. I don’t understand why some of the Members of Parliament and other officials in Ottawa just don’t come up here and take a tour around Nunavut, see some of the housing, some of the 30 year and 40 year old housing and some of the overcrowding.
I don’t see why you have to spend $750,000 on a study when you can get some of the Members of Parliament to use their 65 free flights a year to just make a couple trips to Nunavut. I’m not just talking about coming to Iqaluit; go to some of the smaller communities across Nunavut.
Perhaps the Premier should write a letter to the Prime Minister and invite some of them up here when they are on summer break. It would certainly help our argument.
Another priority for 2007-08 is the Housing Corporation set out to work with local housing organizations to prepare credible waiting lists of un-housed people. When I see the word credible, it suggests to me that the waiting lists at the Housing Corporation that the local housing organizations are working with have some issues with them. I am wondering if the minister could expand on why they had to prepare credible waiting lists.
What’s wrong with the waiting lists that they already have?
I am sure those waiting list numbers will be credible because we were given some money to build more houses because they recognize that it was needed because the families are growing in the communities, and they don’t always keep putting their names on the waiting list, even if they need a house.
We have to make sure that the waiting list numbers are accurate and up to date, because in Nunavut, the families are growing in number more so than the rest of Canada. I think it’s very important that the federal housing department recognizes that there is a need up here because there is not enough housing up here in Nunavut communities.
I know people in my riding that after two or three years on a waiting list who have stopped applying.
I’ve heard of other people who have been on waiting lists for ten years. They keep applying. I compliment them for their patience and their persistence, but when you’re on a list for three to ten years, it is certainly depressing.
It would be to me anyway.
I think this probably would be good information to you help you lobby in Ottawa. Again, maybe when those MPs can take some time of this summer and come up, maybe they can talk to some of the people. You can give them the waiting list and they can talk to some of those people and see what it is like to be on a waiting list that long for a house for your family; you don’t have to live in one bedroom in a three-bedroom house with your wife and four children.
That is something that they should witness first hand by talking to people.
Mr. Chairman, I wanted to get back onto staff housing, in the business plan on page L-23.
Earlier I mentioned whether the minister was contemplating freezing the policy while they analyze and review the hardships that it has imposed on many of our Government of Nunavut employees across Nunavut.
I talked about repairs and maintenance to the facilities and increases to the rent. But one thing that I’ve thought about over the last several months, when the Government of Nunavut, through the Housing Corporation, increases the rent or charges rent to those houses there are obviously revenues.
When the revenues come in where do those revenues go?
Why don’t they go back into the Housing Corporation? Looking at the main estimates and the business plan, we can’t see where the revenues come in and what they’re used for.
On the first one about the MPs, I’ve written letters to them to invite them to talk about the housing situation in our territory and hopefully we’ll meet with them in the fall depending on the election I guess.
Also, on the money that goes to the government, it goes to the general revenue that we collect from staff housing units.
I certainly hope that some of the Members of Parliament do accept the invitation to come up here this year.
Could the minister clarify for me, the Nunavut Housing Corporation is a Crown Agency, why would the revenues go the Government of Nunavut, into the Consolidated Revenue Fund and not directly back to the Nunavut Housing Corporation where they could maybe use the revenues to fix houses and maybe build other houses?
It’s just for clarity, too, for the members. It’s not just the rental revenues; it’s also the surcharge for fuel, and in some cases, electricity and furniture.
Anything that’s deducted from the employee as part of paying for the rent surcharges, all of that goes into general revenue.
What we’re showing in our main estimates is our requirement to run the expenditures side: pay the leases, pay our staff housing agents, and pay the utilities involved in staff housing.
The revenue side of staff housing will be part of the Department of Finance’s main estimates.
Why it’s done that way is probably because it’s always been done that way.
It’s from whenever I can recollect.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Scott. Mr. Peterson.
Mr. Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That’s an interesting answer because I know Mr. Scott has been around a long time in Nunavut.
I was looking at the Qulliq Energy Corporation Annual Report for March 31, 2006. They have a statement of income. It’s a five-year summary, you know, revenues, expenses, losses, and other sorts of things, and they have a net income at the bottom.
The Qulliq Energy Corporation is a crown agency.
I’m wondering why the Housing Corporation hasn’t taken that step and gone in that direction, just separate totally from the Government of Nunavut and have your own independent accounting division, all the revenues come in and all the expenses go out; instead of collecting revenues, and then it goes to the general revenues, the consolidated revenue fund and then the government accounts has to separate all that and then Housing has to come back and ask us for annual funding.
I wonder if something like that makes sense for you.
Is it something that your crown agency should be exploring?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We’ve been continually discussing this issue with the Department of Finance on how we can deal with this issue in the future.
Can the minister indicate if he had discussions with his colleagues at the Cabinet level with respect to proceeding in this direction?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): Thank you. We’ve never discussed this with the Financial Management Board, but our officials, if they were to table clear information, then we can start the discussion with the Financial Management Board.
I thank the minister for that answer. Perhaps, for clarity purposes, the minister could clarify the last answer - if they were to table information, then they could proceed in that direction.
I didn’t understand what he was referring to, Mr. Chairman.
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation) Just to clarify, if there was a document that clearly stated, or if we were to come up with an options paper, then I would be able to give it to the Financial Management Board.
I would like to ask a question. It’s evident that the local housing organizations are running by themselves and they are the association and they are their own entity.
They have to do the maintenance of the units but it’s very difficult to translate that to Inuktitut…the maintenance of the units because the tenants, I believe have to be informed how they should be maintaining their units because there are a lot of units that require renovations because there is a lot of damage done to the houses by the tenants.
I was wondering if Nunavut Housing Corporation with the assistance of the local housing organizations if you can come up with a program to inform the tenants to make sure that we reduce the damage done by the tenants.
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The local housing organizations, we do want to work closely with them to improve the maintenance work done on the units.
This is a very important in order to provide adequate housing to the public.
We do want to work closely with the local housing organizations to make sure we improve this and I know that the local housing organizations are working to the best of their ability to manage their housing units. So we will want to work carefully on this for the future.
I think it is valid enough to say that they need help.
This government has to establish some sort of a prevention program to the buildings.
Knowing that in a lot of the communities in Nunavut, I think the occupants of the houses are not careful enough to keep these houses in a good maintenance condition.
Knowing that, there have been a lot of complaints from the individuals in the community who are being put into … cornered or something like that for a very small item that they have accidentally … causing maintenance people to come over to fix.
There is a big thing going on and except for those people who are abusively breaking up odds and ends in the housing units.
I would direct a few questions to the minister, is there any prevention program on using too much energy, too much maintenance?
Any kind of program that you have, you are planning, or proposing to housing associations in the communities?
As we all know the local housing organizations or associations have their tenant relations officer that are working for the public units and I think it’s important that we work very closely with the local organization to make sure that we have proper maintenance programs.
Again, it is important that for this year, for the next three or four years of building these 725 units would prevent to have more vandalism or less vandalism in the units and have more maintainers that will make sure that the units are properly working for our people that are living in the units.
So, again, we are doing our very best to make sure we have good communications with the local organizations so that we could prevent these kind of incidents or kinds of vandalism that are happening in our units that we are leasing to tenants, renting to the public.
Mr. Alagalak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Minister for considering this.
The local housing organizations, I believe, require assistance, even though they have a housing association board of directors.
But they select people from the waiting list to get into the units. I believe that the local housing organization have authority to hire and to establish subcommittees outside of the local housing organization board to do preventative work, and also to make sure that they don’t use too much fuel.
I know that it’s evident that sometimes some units have their lights on all night long and their windows are open all night long in the middle of winter and it becomes very expensive to operate a unit. If there was preventative work done on a program it would be less expensive. I believe that this is an urgent case.
I was wondering if you can look into that.
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): Thank you. Yes.
Minister Picco has stated too that we’d like to see the ban of incandescent light bulbs.
So we’re working towards that.
And also the Energy Secretariat, which I believe is under the Premier’s portfolio. We continually work with them about the efficient use of energy. We want to build units, or construct units to that are fuel efficient units.
During our meeting in Ottawa we were recognized for the fact that we work very hard to make sure that we don’t overuse our energy and use cost effective, energy efficient things.
Although I know there is still room for improvement in the future and we will continue to work towards that.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Minister Thank you, Mr. Alagalak.
Before I go on with my question I just want to say hi to a friend of mine that’s watching right now; Marilyn. I say hi to her.
I just want to follow-up on Mr. Peterson’s questions.
He tweaked my interest, and something that I never realized, that has to deal with the revenues from staff housing.
I went into the Summary of Revenues in the main estimates and there is a little over $15 million in the budget of rental recovery from staff housing. I would assume that is the income that the government makes from rent from their units.
Is the Housing Corporation the only Crown Agency, or corporation that doesn’t have control over the revenue side of their program?
I’ll just start off with that.
I’m not aware of how all the departments operate, but I don’t think that Economic Development and Transportation retains the revenues from licenses and the same with Environment when selling a fishing and hunting license.
I think that all of that goes into general revenues. But, as far as other crowns and agencies, I know that the Qulliq Energy Corporation collects their own revenues from their staff housing, and they certainly keep the revenues from the sale of their electricity and whatnot.
I know we’ve heard from a lot members here, and I’ve been hearing it ever since we first started in 1999 that there never seems to be enough money for houses.
We’ve heard all kinds of concerns raised over the conditions of public housing units and the condition of staff housing units, and it’s always that we don’t have enough money to address all those issues.
If the idea of Housing Corporation retaining all the revenues from staff housing would that help alleviate some of the problems?
Would that give you able to give you a little more flexibility to deal with some of those issues say like a lack of staff housing, or maintaining the units that are, sometimes because of a lack of funding, aren’t able to be maintained as often as possible?
I’ll get Mr. Scott to respond to that.
What it would allow the corporation to do I guess is to manage the entire program, the expenditure and the revenue side of it which I guess makes sense.
It would also allow additional flexibility to be able to work within the funding that is provided to pay for staff housing, to actually manage the program possibly more efficiently.
Those are the general discussions that we’ve been having with the Department of Finance on this particular item.
So, you have been having those discussions with the Department of Finance. The minister mentioned earlier the idea of an options paper looking at that.
I’m just wondering if the minister would commit to, if this spring is possible, or the fall, looking at as soon as possible coming forward with an options paper on that, to the standing committee, the members, or Cabinet colleagues to have a look at to see if that is something that would give the housing corporation the ability to enhance the delivery of its programs and services throughout the territory.
Again, it’s something that we’re working closely on with the Department of Finance.
Myself, as the minister of the corporation can’t commit whether it would be doable in May or in the fall, but we’re doing our very best to come up with ideas of how we could proceed with this.
I think that we would really have to work closely with the Department of Finance to come up with an options paper.
Then if minister could commit, once they’ve come up with one, if they’re working on it, or commit to actually come up with one, once the different options of it all have been weighed with the Department of Finance and that, would he be willing to share that with all the members?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk: Thank you. If directed by my colleagues from Cabinet or the Financial Management Board, I would be happy to.
I’m sure that your Cabinet colleagues of this very open, transparent, and accountable government would be more than happy to give you the okay to share that with us and I look very much forward to that when the time comes.
So I encourage the minister to pass on those comments from Hansard to his Cabinet colleagues.
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, my Cabinet colleagues, my Financial Management Board colleagues, have done their very best to make sure that we’re working closely to make sure we let Nunavut know what we’re trying to do. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman: Thank you, Minister. (interpretation) We’re on L-4. (interpretation ends) Nunavut Housing Corporation.
Mr. Curley: Yes, I have a few more points here that I wanted to cover. One has to do with what I had indicated in my opening comments as the Chairman of the Infrastructure Committee.
The 2005-06 annual report has not been tabled as yet as required by the law. Can the minister indicate to this committee exactly when you expect to table the annual report of 2005-06?