EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Speaker (interpretation): Thank you, Member Curley.
The member is talking about moving into what’s called the true price of fuel and trying to be transparent on the true cost of fuel. This comes out of the Ikuma I and the Ikuma II Reports that were tabled in the previous Assembly to look at moving toward a transparent process so that all residents of Nunavut could see the true cost of fuel to the consumer and to the government, and to be able to apply that transparency in an open and a fair manner.
That was the discussion that has occurred but no decision has been made on that, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I believe the minister tabled as a part of the backup document when he requested the extension of the Fuel Stabilization Rider to his Cabinet colleagues and the attached document states, “In the spring of 2006 QEC requested that PPD expedite the delivery of fuel pricing information to QEC and suggested that ‘at cost’ pricing would be supportive of this approach.” It went on to explain that they now have a person that they located at PPD and they’re working on it.
So I’m trying to get some information for the public and my constituency on why he feels the current system is not working.
Again, it is a complicated subject and I can provide the member in writing, which he could share with his constituents who are asking, some of the information on this.
There has been some discussion that has occurred interdepartmentally and through departments in government on different issues; in this case, the QEC and the true cost of fuel, and what does that mean? The true cost of fuel means the price that is paid for that fuel, which includes the transportation costs, the purchase prices, and so on.
However, Mr. Speaker, it doesn’t include the capital costs, for example, to store fuel in a tank farm, it doesn’t include the PPD costs of its support services, or indeed, it doesn’t include the capital costs for finance purchases. So those would be the true costs built into the cost of that fuel.
Currently, the Power Corporation purchases, as the member indicated, all the fuel from PPD. We use a purchasing agent for the nominated fuel off the bulk and we also use the supplier for the year of our other bulk sales.
So that’s just a discussion that’s going on. The idea is to provide more transparency and what it costs to actually ship the fuel, to sell fuel, and so on.
I think what I’m trying to get for constituents in Nunavut is a transparent statement from the minister. I think the public certainly has a right to understand exactly what the changes with the pricing would be because they will actually and ultimately, they will be ones who will be paying for the costs.
It is my understanding that at cost price is the price delivered to the location; it does not include all the inside taxes and other costs that the minister just alluded to.
The view that I have and Nunavummiut is that if the at cost pricing is used, they would ultimately pay for all the other extra costs because storage would have to be borrowed from someone.
So will the minister commit to making that report public before he imposes the new fuel price for Nunavummiut to incur?
Again, there are the discussions. We did put a mandate letter to the QEC talking about how PPD, and so on, would move forward.
At one point here in the House, we actually tried to set up the Qulliq Fuel Corporation to be able to look at all the aspects of fuel purchasing, and so on and so forth, and make that a Crown corporation of government.
And, all these things that the member is talking about are intertwined. As the members know, there was not enough support in the House to set up a Qulliq Fuel Corporation and that didn’t move forward.
Some discussions continued under the true costs of fuel.
So I can assure the member that, first of all, this minister doesn’t make a decision on the price of fuel; that’s done through the auspices of CGS and the Cabinet as a whole. We do that, we look at the prices and the cost benefit analysis, and so on, and we try to protect the consumer where we can.
That’s why we have a fuel subsidization program in place and the Revolving Fund.
If any new information comes out or if I’m moving toward a nominated price and moving toward the true costs of fuel, Mr. Speaker, I will let the members know and the member know.
I have a Written Question for the Minister responsible for Energy on the issue of the Fuel Stabilization Riders and a Written Question for the Minister of Community and Government Services on the issue of Annual Fuel Purchases.
The questions are quite detailed and I would ask, Mr. Speaker, that they be entered into the record as read.
Written Question 011 – 2(4): Fuel Stabilization Riders and Other Matters (Curley)
For each of the fiscal years from 1999-2000 to 2006-07, broken down by community and class of consumer, how much revenue did the Qulliq Energy Corporation and its predecessor entity raise from the imposition of Fuel Stabilization Riders?
What specific actions have been taken to implement the direction in the 2006-07 Ministerial Letter of Expectation to the Chairperson of the Board of Directors of the Qulliq Energy Corporation to “develop and enhance a businesslike relationship with the Petroleum Products Division of the Department of Community and Government Services as your key supplier”?
In which communities does the Qulliq Energy Corporation maintain its own tank farms and in which communities is fuel stored on behalf of the corporation by the Petroleum Products Division of the Department of Community and Government Services?
Broken down by community and class of consumer, what methodology does the Qulliq Energy Corporation use in determining the relationship between the price at which it purchases fuel and the rates it charges for the provision of electricity?
Written Question 012 – 2(4): Annual Fuel Purchases (Curley)
Expressing the data in a comparable format as that which was provided in Return to Written Question 24 – 2(2), what quantities of fuel were purchased by the Government of Nunavut in the years 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007?
What methodology does the Government of Nunavut use in determining the price at which the Qulliq Energy Corporation purchases diesel fuel from the Petroleum Products Division of the Department of Community and Government Services?
For the years 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007, what amounts were paid by the Qulliq Energy Corporation for the purchase of fuel, broken down by community?
They will be entered into the record as read.
Tabled Document 222 – 2(4): The Law Foundation of Nunavut’s Annual Report 2006-2007 (Okalik)
Tabled Document 223 – 2(4): A 2006-2007 Merit and Bonus Summary – All Senior Managers, ADMs and DMs (Okalik)
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (interpretation ends) I am pleased to table the following document: The Law Foundation of Nunavut’s Annual  Report 2006-2007 and the 2006-2007 Merit and Bonus Summary. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Motion 031 – 2(4): Appointment to the Executive Council of Nunavut – Notice (Kattuk)
I give notice that on Monday, March 17, 2008, I will move the following motion:
NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the Honourable Member for Tunnuniq, that the Legislative Assembly recommend to the Commissioner of Nunavut that Levi Barnabas, Member for Quttiktuq, be appointed to the Executive Council of Nunavut.
Motion 032 – 2(4): Standing Committee Appointments and Revocations – Notice (Tootoo)
NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the Honourable Member for Cambridge Bay, that David Simailak, Member for Baker Lake, be appointed a Member of the Standing Committee on Health and Education, a Member of the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Accountability, and an Alternate Member of the Standing Committee Ajauqtiit;
AND FURTHER, I move that the present appointments of Levi Barnabas, Member for Quttiktuq, to certain Standing Committees and as a Deputy Chairperson of the Committee of the Whole be revoked.
At the appropriate time, Mr. Speaker, I will be seeking unanimous consent to deal with that motion today.
I request unanimous consent to deal with my motion.
Motion 031 – 2(4): Appointment to the Executive Council of Nunavut (Kattuk)
WHEREAS subsection 60(1)(b) of the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act provides that there shall be an Executive Council of Nunavut composed of persons appointed by the Commissioner of Nunavut on the recommendation of the Legislative Assembly;
Motion 032 – 2(4): Standing Committee Appointments and Revocations (Tootoo)
WHEREAS section 17 of the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act provides for the Legislative Assembly to appoint such committees to aid and advise it as it considers necessary;
AND WHEREAS sections 42 and 43 of the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act provide for the appointment of a Deputy Speaker and Deputy Chairpersons of the Committee of the Whole;
AND WHEREAS Rule 89(2) of the Rules of the Legislative Assembly provides for the Striking Committee to recommend Members to serve on Standing Committees;
If there are no more, Item 17.
In accordance with the authority provided to me by Motion 4 – 2(4), the committee will stay in session until it reports itself out.
At this time, before we proceed with Committee of the Whole with Mr. Arreak in the Chair, we will take a 20-minute break.
>>House recessed at 15: 09 and Committee resumed at 15:39
Before we proceed, I will make a ruling.
In our proceedings in Committee of the Whole yesterday, the Member for Iqaluit East raised a Point of Order.
The Point of Order was that the Member for Rankin Inlet North referred the House in relation to the structure of power rates in Nunavut.
I have reviewed the Blues in relation to this matter and I cannot find that the Member for Rankin Inlet North implied false or hidden motives for that he deliberately mislead the House.
I find that there is a legitimate point of disagreement between the members that is an appropriate matter for debate.
Mr. Simailak: There’s a first time for everything, Mr. Chairman.
We wish to continue with Bill 23 and the review of the Department of Justice, followed by the Department of Economic Development and Transportation, and then the Legislative Assembly. We will then return to the Department of Health and Social Services. Following the completion of Bill 23, we will proceed to review Bills 22, 24, and 25. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Are we in agreement we continue with the Main Estimates for the Department of Justice?
Opening comments were done before we left COW yesterday.
Minister Okalik, do you have witnesses you would like to bring to the table?
Chairman: Thank you. (interpretation) Do you agree to have the minister’s officials join him at the witness table?
Minister, for the record, please introduce your officials.
With me today on my right, as you all know, is Marcus Weber, the Deputy Minister for the Department of Justice, and also, to my left, who has also appeared before the committee, Ted Dingle, the Finance Comptroller.
Mr. Arvaluk. Mr. Alagalak.
Mr. Alagalak: Thank you, Mr. Arvaluk. (interpretation) I am very pleased that you are here and welcome.
I will open with a general comment, but firstly, I would like to welcome you to the House as this is a very important department in our community since we continually have to deal with laws and the Justice Department.
However, Inuit are starting to become overwhelmed by the various laws and some people are transgressing these laws by not knowing that they are in effect and they have been experiencing more issues with the courts.
We’ve had many people run into problems since Inuit are no longer operating under the auspices of Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit and some of the elders are even afraid to live in the traditional livelihoods or lifestyle since Inuit keep running into legislation that ultimately results in court appearances.
Even some of the elders have unknowingly run into problems since they have no experience with the laws that they are breaking and they do not know that this can lead to big problems in the courts since they are still living the traditional lifestyles.
We have to have more respect for our elders since our own government, the Government of Nunavut, has stated publicly that they are extremely proud of the Inuit, the elders, their culture and Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit.
However, from my perspective, we are not keeping our Inuit properly informed of these laws, especially those who are still traditional Inuit elders, both about the legislation we are passing and what the consequences are for breaking these laws. We have to verbally inform the public since the public lacks explanations and updates of what is transpiring in the House.
Personally, I feel that that is the case.
We also get concerned elders who cannot spend all of their time perusing the Hansard as it is a dry paper and without pictures, most elders tend to ignore the written papers.
Due to this and other reasons, we have to try to put together more public announcements either on the radio or via other auditory methods since our elders listen intently to the radio and TV proceedings of this House. Since the majority of our people tend to listen to the audio proceedings, it is one of the ways to educate our constituents about the new legislation and the enforcement and penalty provisions since there are consequences for not adhering to the laws created in this House.
As Inuit are starting to experience more legal roadblocks in every facet of their lives, we have to be more diligent in informing our people in the north. Due to the dearth of verbal public announcements, we are keeping our people in the dark, causing confusion and hasty reactions, which is the polar opposite of working with Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit.
Further, we seem to be pushing aside this traditional knowledge with our pursuit of more legislation and we are fighting over the laws that are being passed.
Although this is not purposefully done, due to the lack of understanding and communication, most of our people assume that this is the case.
That is what I wanted to elaborate on.
We are not trying to mislead our constituents but pass legislation that assists them. I believe that we have to go forward a few steps, especially in relation to your department and I think that we have to be better at educating our public, via the radio and other audio means, since our people have expressed that sentiment to us previously.
Before I recognize other members, I would like to recognize visitors in the Gallery.
They are the Coalition of Nunavut DEAs.
I just moved to the regular members’ area and I’m starting to enjoy it very much.
I will make a brief comment, Mr. Chairman.
I will be pleased to pass these main estimates because I believe we will need more police presence in Baker Lake. We have been asking for this and would be much appreciated if it’s approved.
However, I would like to briefly go over the ongoing concerns Baker Lake has with regards to people who have been charged. They wait for a very long time before appearing in court and court dates keep getting delayed. Some lose hope and say it’s becoming irrelevant, which is becoming a concern to family members.
Many feel the court circuit that travels to the communities does so very hastily and that’s a concern of Baker Lake residents.
Also, when the court circuit travels, Baker Lake is usually the very last stop, which usually means they are in a rush to go home.
I believe this has to be rectified. The court circuit travelling to the communities should be provided with additional funds and stay longer in the communities. Many have expectations for solutions, Mr. Chairman.
The Community Justice Committee called Sapunniaqtiit in Baker Lake does very interesting and considerable work. The committee includes elders who have vast traditional knowledge and know how to resolve any number of situations. They have been very beneficial to our community, especially when the court circuit travels to our community, and they also sit with the judges.
I want the minister to know that Baker Lake is quite happy about the system.
Lastly, Mr. Chairman, I think it’s been three or four years that this young individual has been applying to work with the youth that have gone through the court system by sending them out to the outpost camp.
It is inspiring to see this young individual being very supportive and helpful to his peers.
He is given inmates to take them out on the land and this has been very helpful in Baker Lake. Other people come in from the surrounding communities to go to that outpost camp program for inmates.
I’m urging that spread in other communities, if there is interest, because this is very beneficial. I wanted to state that to the minister as he has been working on that for a very long time. I certainly would like to see that continue in Baker Lake.
I would like to ask a brief question on some concerns of my constituents. I want to welcome the minister and his officials.
One of the concerns is about some defendants who are tried in the courts in Iqaluit and are brought back to the community. Often when the courts have finished trying their cases, they seem to be forgotten. They will try and look after themselves and have to survive on their own.
This is not a good thing to see. After they have gone through the court system, the officials in the court should do follow-ups and not just leave them alone to fend for themselves and not supported in any way. This is not a good picture to see once they are dealt with.
I can give an example of a case I know where individuals I know quite well are sent from Sanikiluaq to Iqaluit and tried at the courts. Once convicted, they are sent to correctional facilities. For some reason, I’m aware of one individual who was not returned to Sanikiluaq.
He had to stay in a home and I don’t know if he was looked after properly.
I think we really need to take proper care of the people that have gone through the courts and this has to be re-examined.
At times, we just let them go out there without any support.
Mr. Arvaluk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I seek unanimous consent of my colleagues and if there are no nays, I know you welcomed the group, but I would like to introduce them so that we know who they are.
I think that we will be meeting with the Coalition of Nunavut DEAs in April.
The member is seeking unanimous consent, so does the committee agree?
Chairman (interpretation): There are no nays.
Jeeteeta Merkosak is the chair of the coalition and she’s from Pond Inlet. The co-chair is Johnny Kootook from Taloyoak.
Thirdly, Jesse Idlout is originally from Resolute Bay, but I believe he lives in Taloyoak and he is representing the Nunavut Disabilities Makingnasuaqtiit Society. Simon Kuliktana is from the DEA executive and Jacob Ikeperiar from Hall Beach is also there.
Also, Alice Ladner, their Executive Director.
You still have eight minutes, Mr. Arvaluk.
I’ll just make it brief.
The Department of Justice is beginning to understand Inuit slowly.
I believe our goal prior to 1999 was to establish a government which we wanted to evolve towards Inuit society.
We hoped to update certain elements, such as what we have been trying to do with the Department of Education.
We are still a little too far apart as legislators and as legal professionals. It may have a lot to do with the fact that so much of the legal system is based on a long entrenched Western tradition, which resulted in a jargon-heavy legal language.
Take the proposed Midwifery Act as an example. The way it is drafted might have some sense to it, but even for someone who is not a lawyer and can read English, the only way to understand this legislation is by asking questions.
When Inuit try and say something in their own language in the manner the courts operate, like when my colleague spoke about Baker Lake, and if you applied our traditional way, it would make things so much easier for us as Inuit right away. It’s just that I’m not sure how much the government is able to comprehend what I’m trying to say.
This is something that has long been attempted.
What’s really important are those who are incarcerated, especially the young people that are taken out to the outpost camps, they’re much happier and become close friends with their chaperones.
What I’m trying to say is that Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit is a tool we can apply and help the youth face up to their errors and show them the right way to conduct their lives. This is what they do in the outpost camps.
Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to comment briefly on the budget, seeing how important we depend on finances.
When we use the funds, we have to keep asking, “Is it supporting the people? Are the funds being used properly to enhance the lives of the people?”
For example, the funds that are being asked under Directorate, $10,508,000, we haven’t got to that page yet, but I’ll make more comments when we get to that page.
I’m trying to say that when we approve the budget in the Legislative Assembly, does it help the people of Nunavut? It seems as though we keep repeating these kinds of questions concerning the budget.
The government needs to describe each criteria and it needs to put in detail what it will be used for to the Legislative Assembly and they have to convince the MLAs that these funds will be used properly to address some issues.
For this reason, we asked questions for a long period of time, looking at the details and estimates.
I’ll have some questions when we get to E-4.
I would like to welcome the Minister and the Deputy Minister of the Department of Justice.
Their mandate is a huge one and one that is often heartfelt by all Nunavummiut in the areas of justice, such as policing and legal issues.
First of all, I want to thank the minister for the preparation of the new Family Abuse Intervention Act. I saw how it was developed and spoke briefly with some of the staff when they arrived in the communities to hold workshops with Community Justice Committees. I want to recognize them for their hard work and sincerity they contributed.
They were able to articulate in Inuktitut very well and I’m very proud of their work.
It’s difficult to deal with broken families and this Act will go a long way to facilitate that important work.
I want the minister to know that their work is very much appreciated.
We would like to get more information concerning the police who are funded by the federal government in part and by the Government of Nunavut.
Firstly, all members here would agree with me that the police have experienced a difficult time in the past year in Nunavut.
One member lost his life and we felt for the family members and the police are young. I think the minister knows that everyone in Nunavut felt for them. We have heard that the federal government have agreed that the police in the communities will no longer work alone when dealing with any dangerous situation and we wholeheartedly agree with that.
We will want to ensure that the budget is adequate because the police work really hard in the communities and they are highly respected by the elders for having to deal with dangerous people at times. They are often the only ones people can turn to.
We want the police to know that Nunavummiut fully support them.
While we are working on this department, we would like to see more Inuit become police in the communities.
Thirdly, I want to say to you that in Nunavut, I think I can say honestly that the people in Nunavut, elders especially, all sorts of substances are entering the communities which are affecting our youth in negative ways. We ought to look into drafting up a strategy to deal with these substances and this may be the only time that I would support any strategic initiatives.
Take this as an example, some of us have no idea (interpretation ends) what to do with that stuff, (interpretation) even if we were to see it right in front of us. Many adults who do not have experience with these substances do not know whether or not their children are high on these substances. We need to better educate our parents on these many substances, not just by the RCMP but also by some of our staff working at the Department of Justice.
I believe that we have to explore all options to ensure parents are aware of these substances.