EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
I tabled that document last year, Mr. Chairman.
So I am wondering if the minister or his staff had the time to review it. Would he give me an update today and what they think of that suggestion?
The member mentioned this to me last March when we were in Cambridge Bay and we were meeting with the mine training group with Mr. Bruce Rigby and other people.
At that time I thought it was a good idea and I agree with him.
The department has done some good work here and I am going to read into the record of exactly what is occurring right now so that the member and other members will have this information.
Right now, the officials within the Income Support Division which is Sandy and Michelle are in the process of reviewing and revising the operational guidelines so we could include a prevision for income support recipients.
So that’s someone who is on income support, to receive additional assistance in the amount up to and including the cost of a one-time one-way airfare from their home community to an employer point of hire in order to secure and begin employment.
So for example, if you are in Cambridge Bay and you are offered a job in Kugluktuk and you are on income support, then we would provide that one-time support for you to fly from Cambridge Bay to Kugluktuk and take that position.
I think that’s what the member has been talking about.
At the same time, travel to remote worksites for those on income support would also fill the bill but it would be under that one-time payment as we said.
I would expect that if you are working in a remote site lets say the Lupine Mine, then Lupine would probably have covered that cost for you to take you back and forth from Cambridge Bay.
That’s good to hear that.
Under the Nunavut Impact and Benefit Agreements, Article 26 of the Land Claims Agreement, all Inuit of Nunavut can qualify but the point of hire would be say, Cambridge Bay.
If an individual from Broughton Island or Grise Fiord wanted to work at one of the mines in the Kitikmeot Region and the people in the Kitikmeot were fully hired down there and there are more vacant positions, would that program help that person get to Cambridge Bay or Kugluktuk or wherever the opportunity is?
Would that help them get there and be reimbursed?
Hon. Ed Picco: I think the concern we would have on the program is that we wouldn’t want to fly someone from Rankin Inlet and send them to Igloolik or fly them from Rankin Inlet and send them to Broughton Island for example for a job and then when they get to Broughton Island, they don’t have the job.
Then that person is stuck in Broughton Island because no one is going to fly them back.
What we are saying is that if you are secured a job in a community, then we would help you with the one-way airfare from your community to that place of hire or that point of hire.
So I think we want to be sure on that so that we don’t get into a position where we are flying someone somewhere and they get to Baker Lake and then all of a sudden they don’t like the job.
The other concern would be that once you are helped, you are on income support and you are flown from Broughton Island to Baker Lake for a job and now you are in Baker Lake and after two weeks you don’t like the job, then you are going to be responsible for your own airfare back to Broughton Island.
So it’s for a one-way airfare.
It’s to help facilitate the opportunity for people to have employment outside their home community and cover off that expensive airfare issue that the member had raised way back in March.
So I am very pleased that we are able to move on it and I hope that meets the member and the other members’ expectations of the program.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you. Mr. Peterson, do you have any further questions?
I would thank the minister and it’s a good start.
So I’ll look forward to seeing it once it’s implemented, how it works out.
If there’s some tinkering that has to occur along the way to make it really fully useful for the folks that we represent, and then we should monitor implementation.
I want to clarify in my own mind who delivers the income support programs administered to the three regional early childhood service offices located in Pangnirtung, Rankin Inlet and Cambridge Bay.
So you have three people but it’s not really the social workers that deliver the program.
There is an individual in each region.
Do they work through hamlets or other organizations to deliver the Income Support program?
Could the minister clarify that please?
Hon. Ed Picco: No, the way we would have it set up for administrative purposes would be for example, if you’re Clyde River, you would go through the Income Support regional office.
The Income Support worker in Clyde River would be able to facilitate the ticket and the regional office would be in the position to help coordinate it.
You wouldn’t have to apply to regional offices. The finances for the program would be held in the regional offices.
For example in the member’s case, it would be in that regional community.
Just to clarify again, maybe the minister misunderstood me; you have an individual in Cambridge Bay working in your offices, but who actually delivers the Income Support program to the people that apply for it.
I’m not referring to the Remote Worksite program. I’m referring just to income support in general.
The Income Support worker in each community would be administering and facilitating that program and other income support programs for the department.
It’s the Income Support worker.
Mr. Peterson: Yes, that clarifies it because one of my colleagues down here was mentioning social workers but I know social workers do a lot of good work but I don’t think they are all involved in income support.
Just to carry on with that, I’ve been hearing that there is a lot of and I have used this expression a lot in the last week, red tape associated with getting income support cheques.
You said the money was held in the regional offices but how is the money moved to the hamlets so that they can disperse it to the income support recipients?
Depending on how the member breaks it down, if it’s the delivery of the Income Support program itself, it could be through a community transfer initiative, something like you see in say Cape Dorset, and some of the other communities.
If it is a straight transfer of money from the government, it could be by government cheque for example, from the regional office to the hamlet. So, it depends on the program that the member is asking about.
I guess I’ll try to clarify; the money that people would get every month to buy food, where would they apply? Would it be to the office or would it be to the Income Support worker?
What would happen is that in any given community, you would approach the Income Support officer at their office.
When you walk in that door, there would be an assessment done.
If you’re over the age of 18, any individual is allowed to apply for that program.
The assessment is done and if you qualify, depending on what the period is, the Income Support worker has cheques in their office under the Government of Nunavut’s impress system. They would be able to write a cheque then to the client, if that client qualifies and depending on how much the candidate or the client qualifies for, then that is what the amount of the cheque would be issued for.
I hope that helps clarify the member’s question.
Yes, it does help a little bit.
In terms of tracking the monies that are dispersed to clients, does the department have an electronic tracking system?
Is it all manual?
I know there are high turnovers over income support workers.
It would be important to have an electronic system or a computer system where you could key in an individual’s name and he’ll pull up all the information on that individual, making it a lot easier to process payments or find out the history of that individual.
So I am wondering if the department has a system like that or if they don’t. Are they moving to a system like that?
Just for clarification purposes, on page G-10 it is a policy around Income Support.
The actual monies and dollars of Income Support itself are on G-14.
I will answer the Member’s question.
No, we don’t have that type of electronic system in place.
We are working system for Nunavut.
One system that the Member is talking about at the present time, it is not in place and the Income Support monies are all on G-14, the actual dispersal of the programs.
We are dealing with policy issues in this area.
I apologize to the Minister.
This confused me last year as well as you had Income Support mentioned here and you have Early Childhood Services delivering Income Support.
It is one of those ones that the department should sort out.
Keep Income Support where it should be in the departmental budget.
I have a few more questions, but I will save it until we actually get there.
Would you like to answer that, Mr. Minister?
Hon. Ed Picco: Well, the format that is put together for the books in our budget debate is Finance Department rules.
That is why there is a strict process in place for contracts and contribution agreements and actual allocation of dollars and then by Director and category.
So that is the reason why for the little confusion.
Again, I will be really pleased to move forward to G-14 and agree to all the other pages in between.
Are you done Mr. Peterson?
I just have one question for Income Support.
If a person turns 18 years old as of today, how long is the waiting period for looking for assistance from Income Support cheque, or something like that?
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Kattuk.
Most calendar dates a person age advances at 12:01 am.
I would suggest to you that the Income Support office would probably not be open.
A person can apply at 8:00 or 9:00 in the morning as soon as that office opens, as soon as that person who turns 18 years old, they can go to the office to apply for Income Support.
Whether they would be eligible or not, they would have to be assessed by the Income Support Worker.
The answer is once they turn 18 years old they can apply for Income Support.
What I was told is that if you become 18 years old today, you have to wait at least 2 months in order to get first assistance cheque.
So I think that I was given the wrong information then.
Do you want to respond to that Mr. Minister?
As long as they are 18, as soon as they turn18 years old after 12:01, they can apply for the program.
Again it depends on the case when they review it.
So the Member is correct when they turn 18 years old they can go to Income Support and apply.
That is not saying they are eligible, but they can apply.
I have another concern.
I am glad you are working with the young people in the communities.
Has the minister tabled this at the witness table?
Chairman (interpretation): Yes, it will be at the witness table at some time.
We are on G-10.
I don’t have anymore names.
Total Operations and Maintenance. $2,232,000, agreed?
We will go to G-11.
Adult Learning and Post-Secondary Services.
I would like the minister, again with respect to Nunavut Arctic College; college contribution is quite significant at $15,707,000.
I do believe that at least this house and the people of Nunavut, Mr. Chairman, I am going to wait until the witness departs.
Chairman: For the record, could you please introduce Mr. Max Clendenning?
First of all, thank you Mr. Chairman.
I would like to thank Ms. Sandy Teiman for sitting in with us during the income support profile.
I expect that Sandy will be back when we get to G-14.
Joining me now on my immediate right is Mr. Max Clendenning.
Max is the president of Nunavut Arctic College.
Welcome Max Clendenning.
Mr. Curley, you have questions.
First a very short opening remark, the amount for contribution for college contribution is quite significant and it’s in excess of $15 million.
I think it’s a very important investment and I really believe that each member of the house here fully supports expanding the investment for the future.
I need to further remind the minister, I know the minister is committed but I also would like to hear from the president of the Nunavut Arctic College, Mr. Max Clendenning. Because I do want to understand exactly where you stand with respect to, not only agreeing with us that expanding the Nunavut Arctic College with particular respect to the training section, training requirements of our young people really should be one of the highlights of the Nunavut Arctic College.
We are not going to train all of them into doctors, teachers, nurses, and academics in Nunavut.
They are eventually going to have to be exported down to some of the provinces to have a long-term career in the field of academics and what not.
But the majority of our people really are interested in trades as well, but really, we don’t have any particular investment directly to the regions because I believe the government can’t quite make up their mind as to where it should be located.
That should not be hindering the government, in my view.
To know that the communities are really fighting to have a trade school is a good thing.
That’s significantly important.
I can tell you too, Rankin Inlet my constituency, is not going to become a hub like Iqaluit, full of civil servants and so on.
It’s going to become the hub of the private sector.
It has the spirit of private sector and so on.
The business community may be small but they don’t hold any bars.
They don’t hold that opportunity.
That’s their future, Rankin Inlet and the people of that nature.
I am much more interested in the private sector and private business and getting into business and to enter into contracting relationships with the mining companies in the private sector area.
Private financing is probably quite significant, a lot less government contribution in terms of business operating in that region.
So I’m suggesting that the delay in investing into trades schools in places like Rankin Inlet, I don’t believe because of the lack of the will of the community, to the young people.
I think it’s bureaucratic.
I want to ask the Minister and Mr. Clendenning exactly what your implementation or plans may be for the next few years to make this important trades school a reality in places like Rankin Inlet in the Kivalliq Region.
Before he responds, I have an announcement.
All those people that were being searched for in Cape Dorset, they have been found and they are safe and healthy.
Mr. Minister or Mr. Clendenning.
Mr. Chairman, first of all, I appreciate the comments of Mr. Curley.
I appreciate his support for a Pre-vocation Training Program within a facility in Nunavut.
I’ve had an opportunity to speak with the Nunavut Arctic College Board of Governors and the Chair, Mr. Robert Leonard and I think there is some concurrence there with the Board, also that we need to move very aggressively and strongly toward having our own pre-vocational training facility in Nunavut itself.
Right now we deliver pre-trades programs and trades programs.
However as Mr. Curley is pointing out, the College is not base funded for trades programs.
So when we deliver those types of programs right now, we’re doing it on an ad-hoc basis and by third party funding.
Maybe the Minister could explain it to us a bit because third party funding and these sites where the trades are being taken, particularly with respect to mechanics and heavy duty mechanics, I believe they’re all over the place, even welding.
Of all the places I was disappointed when I heard one constituent saying in order to have materials for welding in a place like Goose Bay, they had to use scraps of metal because the new supply that you paid for were stored for some important other projects.
Does the Minister really keep track of which locations and if not, if he doesn’t know, could he dig that up and table those sites where the trades are being taken by our young people in Nunavut?
Hon. Ed Picco: When we say trades, there are different types of programs that are delivered by the college and other colleges across Canada not just unique to Nunavut, that are considered apprenticeship or programs.
Those can be the traditional trades for example, Mr. Chairman, like carpentry, plumbing, electricians.
It can be the non-traditional trades for example, it could be hair styling or culinary, under cooking and so on.
So to be more specific, I’m going to go through and give some examples of programs.
Here in Iqaluit as an example, there is under way right now, a pre-employment program, a health careers access program, a pre-employment carpentry program as well as a culinary arts and a hairdressing program.
You could make the case for example, Mr. Chairman, that jewelry and metal working program can be considered an apprenticeship program because you’re actually developing your skills and moving forward.
There have also been pre-employment trades programs in Grise Fjord, Hall Beach, Pangnirtung and Resolute; a pre-trades program in Pangnirtung and Igloolik, a heavy equipment operator program in Hall Beach, as an example of some of the programs that have been delivered.
As well, enrolments by the campus, the program and the location in Rankin Inlet for example, we’ve had an intro to carpentry and framing.
As of January of 2005, there are 13 people in that program, another pre-trades program that’s being delivered in Baker Lake, 13 people are in that one.
We also have a pre-trades program in Arviat.
There are 15 in that program.
Again, we have an introduction to mining program going on in Repulse for the mining industry.
We have nine students in that right now.
We have a pre-employment program in Kugaaruk.
There are eight in that program right now.
So Mr. Chairman, I think across the board in Nunavut, there are a lot of different programs going on right now.
The issue for the college is there is no base fund within the $15 million that accounts for, or is specifically tied to the trades’ fund. That’s funding for trades programs itself, but they’re not based for it.
So the college, the adult educator or the regional campuses, they have to access money whether it’s from Kakivak, other third party funding, other labour market development agreements with HRDC under skill investments and so on, or mining companies may purchase X number of seats and help us deliver a program.
I just want to assure him that it is an ongoing interest of the public and the members of this assembly know that we need to start preparing for the future.
I really don’t believe we can rely on an ad-hoc basis any longer to try and invest into the future of the young people we really need to establish and plan for permanent locations for some of these training facilities in Nunavut, in that regard.
I still ask the minister exactly what his plan of action will be, more specifically though with respect to Nunavut Arctic College, you do offer a good program for interpreter/translator training.
I believe it’s a certified training program. I believe it’s a three year course or something to that affect.
I do know that you did announce at one point that you were establishing a training facility for that kind of program in the Kitikmeot region.
I can tell you, one is definitely needed in the Kivalliq because that is an important field.
The services are not only required by the government but also the private sector, as well as the federal agencies.
Could the minister or Mr. Clendenning assure this house that you will look into this and if so when, and if not, why not?
I would ask Mr. Clendenning just to follow up on the projection for the interpreter/translator program. He may have some pertinent information.
So, I’ll ask Mr. Max Clendenning to answer that question.
Go ahead Mr. CIendenning.
The language and culture programs that we offer through the college are a very important part of our program.
The program here in Iqaluit which is our base funded program, is a two year program which has the interpreter option in the second year.
It certainly has been a very successful program and provided our graduates a lot of meaningful employment opportunities, not only in the south but in the communities as well.
We did start a program this past year in Cambridge Bay in the Kitikmeot for an Innuinaqtun interpreter/translator program.
We are currently doing the access year for that program this year.
It’s been very successful.
We understand the needs for programs in the Kivalliq region and we will look at the feasibility of offering that program and to look at how we can access funding so that we can expand the program to that region as well.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Clendenning.
I’m surprised that you would have to go through the feasibility study again because if it’s feasible in the Kitikmeot, why wouldn’t it be feasible in the Kivalliq?
Having to spend that kind of money again to me is really not required.
There is a demand.
Why would you want to go hire a consultant and do all the study again?
I want to ask the President of Nunavut Arctic College what it would take to implement a program and establish a training program.
We do have facilities that are most of the time, can actually be filled to occupy a program.
So what would you need from this Assembly in order to make it happen?
I think what Mr. Clendenning was saying was that when you look at the opportunity for a feasibility study, if we don’t see the feasibility study, we try to ascertain what the cohort or group amount would be for a number of students that would partake, or have an uptake on the program.
So if there are 100 students that wanted to take the program in the Kivalliq, then you should be prepared for 15 in their 20s and you do the feasibility studies to see if you could actually get the accommodations where they are coming from.
So that’s the reason why you would do that.
You just don’t want to go and say we are going to offer a program and then have 100 people apply and then not have to get back to you.
I think that’s what Mr. Clendenning is saying.
What needs to be put in place to be able to run that program, we already have the course outlines; we know what the curriculum resources, the text and so on are needed because we have been delivering the program.
There are some issues again, around the costs.
We have one base funded program right now that’s delivered under the campus.
The other one in the access year that’s being run out of Cambridge Bay for example, that’s been funded out of third party funding.
To be able to run the program in the Kivalliq lets say starting it in September, if we are able to pull that off through the access year in September and pull that off, then that means we would have to have the funding available for it which we don’t have right now because that’s third party funded.
Which means it doesn’t come out of the base of the college, but we had to find someone else to pay for it.
Through you Mr. Chairman, I asked Mr. Clendenning exactly what he needed.
I don’t believe he said all that and what the Minister supposedly is thinking that Mr. Clendenning is a witness.
So I am asking him exactly why it would be different from Kitikmeot if the feasibility and the demand are there in the Kivalliq.
What factors do we need that may differ from Kitikmeot or Iqaluit when many of our participants, particularly with Iqaluit programs have been participating here and they could very well likely prefer to have that kind of training in Rankin Inlet?
So I am asking Mr. Clendenning through you Mr. Chairman, exactly why would Kivalliq be treated any more differently than Kitikmeot?
Mr. Clendenning.
It basically comes down to an issue of funding.
In order to start a program in the Kivalliq Region, we would have to have funding which is not in our base right now.
As the minister indicated, in order to do a program like that we would have to find a partner who would be prepared to fund the program.
We do have the resources in terms of the curriculum.
We would need to be able to find qualified instructors to teach the program and get the necessary funding to be able to employ them and do the program properly.