EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Chairperson (interpretation): Total expenditures 87 million 487 thousand.
Some Members: Agreed.  Chairperson (interpretation): Department of Public Works as a whole.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Ms. Thompson for being at the witness table and Mr. Mrazek and Gilbert.
Closing comments.
I am astounded that we have completed my department.
Thank you for being the Chairman.
I apologise I just had my name up and I did not hear you call out my name.
I would like to move on to the Nunavut Housing Corporation, Mr. Chairman and I would like for the department to say their opening remarks and then we will take a brief break afterwards.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you. Mr. Akesuk would like to start with the Housing Corporation.
While they are getting prepared.
Ok then are you ready.
Thank you for going to the witness table again Ms. Thompson and if you would introduce your official.
On my left is our President for the Housing Corporation.
I have my opening comments here.
If I could read those either at the witness table or on my desk.
Chairperson (interpretation): Well just stay at the witness table for your opening remarks.
First I would like to ask the interpreters if they have the same copy of my opening remarks.
Okay we will give a copy to the interpreters.
If you would bear with me.
Chairperson (interpretation): The interpreters have a copy.
Go ahead Ms. Thompson.
Nunavut Housing Corporation: Minister’s Opening Remarks  Hon. Manitok Thompson (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman for allowing me to do my opening comments for the Nunavut Housing Corporation budget.
This covers the period of 2000 and 2001.
The Main Estimates for the Corporation are divided as follows:
$ 35.1 Million for O & M
$ 19.0 Million for Capital
Mr. Chairman, the responsibility for housing has now come together under the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
With the hiring of the President of the Nunavut Housing Corporation and approval to separate the Housing Corporation from Public Works, staff will be able to focus on the housing problem.
Mr. Chairman, the housing problem in Nunavut is well known, it can be said that housing is the heart of the social envelope.
Shortage of housing has created overcrowding, which in turn leads to serious social and health problems for Nunavummiut.
During the Pre-Budget consultations, housing concerns were mentioned in 24 of the 25 communities visited. These concerns echo the priority given to housing in “The Bathurst Mandate”.
Mr. Chairman, Nunavut Housing Corporation has listened to the concern of Nunavummiut. The business plan clearly identifies the short term and longer term goals that will address the housing problems within Nunavut.
The Task Force on Housing’s recommendation to construct 100 housing units within Nunavut is the first step towards increasing the social housing stock.
The construction of these units will ensure every incorporated community within Nunavut will be allocated a unit.
Construction of these units will also provide employment opportunities at the community level.
Nunavut Housing Corporation realizes that these units alone will not solve the housing problem.
We will have to work in partnership with community organizations and the private sector.
Nunavut Housing Corporation will issue Request for Proposals for leasing social housing units at the community level.
By leasing existing units, Nunavummiut will have immediate access to units.
This will at least help in the short term.
Mr. Chairman, Nunavut Housing Corporation also recognizes the important work performed by the Local Housing Organizations at the community level.
The Corporation will focus on providing the support required to empower the Local Housing Organizations to administer the construction projects and deliver the housing programs at the community level.
I am committed to addressing our housing shortage in a meaningful and efficient manner.
I want to be clear that this is only a starting point.
Much more will need to be done.
Mr. Chairman Nunavut Housing Corporation will focus their efforts towards creating a five-year strategy to meet our housing needs.
It is my intention to table this five-year strategy during the fall session of the Legislative Assembly.
I hope these comments have been informative.
Mr. Chairman next to me sits the President Pat Hine of the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
They will be just us two of us as witnesses before you during our Nunavut Housing budget.
It is good to see women present in the House amongst all the men.
Now that we have finished the opening remarks.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): At this time let us take a fifteen minute break.
Chairperson (interpretation): The member wishes to take a break.
We will break for fifteen minutes.
Chairperson (interpretation): We are ready to resume.
Before we begin I wanted to inform the House that we will give an opportunity for presentation for each person for 10 minutes.
You can use up to 10 minutes of your speaking time.
Once you have received a response, after that you can not ask any further questions unless someone has spoken after you.
I think we are going to use that procedure.
Maybe we will have a better progression that way this afternoon.
I wonder if the Standing Committee Chairman has opening remarks.
Just when we concluded with Public Works and I collected my statements to the Housing Corporation so I will not need to continue for the Housing Corporation opening remarks coming from the Chair.
General comments and questions to the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
To the Housing Corporation of Nunavut.
Do we have questions or comments.
We are open to the floor.
Just further to touch on my opening statements.
I will be less then 10 minutes.
We have been working on this, we have been organising the community concerns, and I look forward to seeing some better arrangements.
I think we are operating on an emergency basis concerning housing problems because there are so many people in our regions that have housing shortages.
We have many people waiting on the waiting list even with the 100 units that are going to be built especially for the younger people.
The other thing we should look at is the short term strategy and how we can better put it in affect because the major concerns when we consulted the communities was the cost and rental charges for employed persons and people under social programs.
The high rent charges were one of the major concerns that we came across during our consultation visits.
Many people would not be paying, or not keeping their jobs.
I have noticed this a number of times whereby the cause is connected to their employment.
They choose not to work and that is resulting in cheaper housing.
We received that response many times.
This is another problem and I am hoping we can see this issue as well.
The construction of the houses during our consultation visits was another concern.
Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit should be more used in the construction of the houses.
Those were my two main concerns that I wanted to point out during general comments that deal with housing shortages as well as the housing rental scale needing to be adjusted.
I think you reiterated very clearly the concerns we have heard from our communities.
I too just have general comments because when I was running for MLA housing was a big issue that I ran on.
The 100 units that are being proposed I am very happy to see something is being created for Nunavut especially something that is very useful once we approve the main estimates.
There are still a lot of people that require housing.
I am not sure what we are going to do in the future to accommodate those people.
At least this is a starter.
But I know there are a lot of people our there even with the 100 units we are still going to have many homeless people not exactly homeless in the communities but we should try and provide homeless shelters in the communities in the interim.
I think we should entertain that idea in the communities.
Here in Nunavut because you have no shelter for the homeless I think there should be some kind of accommodations.
It would be very helpful also in the communities.
The other thing was concerning housing rents and further to what Enoki spoke to.
Back some years ago when I was a teenager we use have different housing rentals scales depending on the year the house was actually built.
For example the older ones would cost less and the other ones would cost more.
They use to be rent scaled according to the make of the house and that used to be the system that we used.
Some of the old houses that are ready to be demolished as soon as you are working are automatically scaled to your employment.
In addition, some of the older houses actually cost more to the person using them.
I think we should provide some sort of subsidisation for the future to even it out.
I would also want to see a program toward those people, because as soon as you get a job you get housing and they adjust to your income.
I would really like to see some kind of new system and so these are some of the concerns that have to be considered by the Housing Corporation.
Also the local Housing Associations maybe even some of the Hamlets should come up with some kind of subsidising for their employees.
I am just wondering if we are not providing enough housing subsidisation for the employees including the civil servants and employees of the Housing Associations.
Those were my concerns and I wanted to voice them.
I did not quite hear a question but if the minister wishes to respond that is her prerogative.
Do you wish to respond Ms. Thompson.
I find this a very interesting topic.
Of course they come from the communities and they are voicing the concerns of the residents especially for the motions.
I believe there were 15 of them that were produced that are being effected.
We will try to be sensitive to the issues and how to address them through the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
I just find it very interesting.
I prefer to listen to the general comments.
I just like to talk about the housing situation in Nunavut.
I would like to say there should be a long term plan for the people that have housing shortages in communities.
The other thing that we would like done by the department is the elder’s homes and the department should also look at homes for the disabled because they have to be in the communities in Nunavut.
They all should be considered especially the elders' homes should be built.
The department should consider all these things.
Yes it is very important the rent that is paid by the public housing tenants is getting very expensive and they need other things such as skidoos and other items.
However, when they have to pay the high cost of rent then it gets very difficult for them.
I think we have to deal with the rental scales.
This should be dealt with by the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
As well, the communities have Local Housing Associations and they all have their own Associations in their own community.
We have to be sensitive to them as well they know the ins and outs of the communities and they know that they're tenants and we should be able to give more power to run their community especially if they are not being run under the Hamlet Councils.
There will also be contracts coming to communities to construct housing and they should be given to local businesses to construct as long as there are for people able to do the contract to build houses in the communities.
This way the community can gain experience and training and to be able to run their own affairs.
We have to give wage employment for people in the communities rather than them relying on social assistance.
They have to try and start having their own affairs being dealt with in the communities and if there is a business in the community then if that person has a contract to build houses they can hire people in the community.
We are under general comments.
General comments and questions from the members regarding Nunavut Housing Corporation.
I do not have any names at this time.
Would you like to go through the main estimates.
Just before we go page by page of the main estimates, I would like to ask questions in regards to the main estimates.
Just before we go page by page of the main estimates.
They have to have renovations to houses every year.
There was money last year to do renovations and for improvement of houses.
I think the budget has decreased this year.
That was one of the concerns from the people of Nunavut.
I had some documents that I brought here with me.
Perhaps I could say for instance if an older house, if I want to renovate an older house.
If I were to put a bathtub into a house and if it is an old house and according to the bathtubs presently being used, it would be too small to put in because the measurement would be off 6 inches.
I am just trying to say if I want to put in a bathtub and the bathtub has to be replaced and put in a newer one in and other items in the house, washroom facilities have to be replaced.
I think this budget is decreasing this year for improvements to houses and renovations to older houses.
There has to be funding allotted for those renovations and improvements.
That is what I am talking about.
If the minister understands me.
Chairperson (interpretation): If I can understand you Mr. Nutarak, everybody understands what you are talking about.
Which one of you could answer the question.
Thank you to the member.
When I was over at his office he showed me the pictures.
I am not sure exactly what happened to them.
The pictures that were taken about what he was talking about.
I have seen the pictures.
We have 2000-2001, 1 million dollars allotted for improvements and renovations to older houses.
We already know that there was a lot more money in previous years for improvement and renovation of older houses but we had to decrease the allotted amount because of having to construct new houses.
We have to be able to make more houses and then take a little less for improvements and renovations.
There is also under Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation 1 million dollars to put in to the Nunavut Housing Corporation for improvements and renovations for older houses.
Ms. Hine.
Ms. Hine: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Well actually the program that we are talking about is a Public Works housing program which is for modernisation and improvements.
There is 1 million dollars under the Government of Nunavut capital budget to do improvements for the public housing.
In addition CMHC provided capital funding as well and it is used to cost share additional modernisation and improvement to the public housing units.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Ms. Hine.
The 1 million that you have mentioned that is for improvements and renovation to older houses.
There was 4 million that was allotted last year for 27 communities.
The pictures that I took like when Madam Minister was in my office that had been renovated.
Looking at the 1 million for all of Nunavut is small.
Especially every year the Housing Corporation does not do any improvements and renovations to the older houses.
I think it was in January or February that is how much and they have to order parts, wood, and whatever else they need to improve the houses.
I feel that 1 million amount is very small for 27 communities.
Because there are always improvements and renovations required in each community.
I wonder if the minister is in the planning stages to increase that amount this year.
Madam Minister.
I do understand that it is too small.
There are the 100 houses that we are going to have to build.
We had to move around some figures in order to accommodate to building those houses.
CMHC does contribute to us.
In addition, we are looking at an additional 4 million dollars from CMHC.
Mr. Chairman it is not in the Government of Nunavut budget because it is coming from outside because these 4 million dollars are coming from CMHC.
I do know that it is going to be too small and if we do not get that 4 million from CMHC there is not much what we could do.
But if we could get that 4 million contribution it will help out and then again I would like to move on to the elders’ subsidy program.
We had money last year and there is zero in the budget.
Does that mean we are not going to be providing subsidies for programs for the elders this year.
The capital budget had to reallocate dollars in order to facilitate this construction of the 100 housing units.
Although there is no money showing under the senior repair program at this time, we are currently negotiating with CMHC to receive some Federal dollars that will be used for renovations of homes.
These are homes that are not under public housing and included would be elders or senior repair.
The emergency repair program, we are looking at getting an additional 300 thousand from the Federal Government through CMHC.
This would be cost shared by our department to bring the total amount of dollars available up to 500 thousand this current year.
The Task Force recommended that we build 100 houses, which we thought is a priority.
We recommend that we build 100 houses and your department took the initiative and made a decision to build those houses.
Have you looked for additional dollars from the Federal Government to pay for the 100 houses or is that possible.
Madam Minister, Ms. Thompson.
When I was asked that question today about when Ed Picco and I went down to Ottawa to talk about the homeless situation here we submitted a letter and I had met with the minister twice.
I also had a meeting with our MP Nancy Lindell to talk about the number of homeless people we have up here in Nunavut.
They are aware of the situation.
We also looked at CMHC, we keep looking for money from CMHC, and we are going to be getting some funds, which again are not in the main estimates.
Thank you. Mr. Iqaqrialu.
Supplementary question before we get into the main estimates.
The Nunavut Government now, are they going to have their own stand alone Housing Corporation now.
I would like clarification on that point Mr. Chairman.
Chairperson (interpretation): Madam Minister.
We already have a stand alone Corporation called the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
This department was with the Community Government and Transportation and was moved on to the Department of Public Works.
It is now the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
It is a stand alone Housing Corporation.
But we are not at full capacity yet.
We have seconded a couple of positions from the Yellowknife Housing Corporation so that we will have technical services and we will contract out the housing portion.
We are a stand alone Corporation and we have seconded several positions.
I just made my own comments and it is a very good response from the Minister.
There is one issue that I missed.
In our community we are concerned about the units or the row housing that is built.
I am not sure, I am just guessing that the houses that are going to be built are going to be multiplex units.
I think that would create a problem if they are going to be inhabited by young people and it is going to create a social problem.
But I was told later, I think we should think about the housing about the social situation and how the multiplex units might create problems socially in the future.
When there is a high density in the area if there should be a fire in one of the units then that whole multiplex would go down.
Then we would see a dramatic increase in the number of people who are homeless.
I think we should consider those things.
We are in a housing crisis in Nunavut.
We have to do the best we can so we can preserve the numbers that we do have.
I have heard the same comments made before.
Again we have a dollar shortage and we have to look at the most economic way of constructing housing with the heating and the water tanks.
It is always cheaper to build units where they share the heating units and the water tanks.
If we built them sharing these things, it will have a lower price tag.
There was a motion for us to build houses using the most economical means.
I know exactly where the member is coming from.
I don’t think we have too many options with the amount of money that we have.
There seems to be no alternative except to build multiplex units if we have enough money and factoring in all the social costs.
But I am very glad to hear those comments.
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Chairman but I forgot what I was going to say.
In regards to what we are doing with housing.
Probably some people want to own their own homes privately without the assistance of the Housing Corporation.
What kind of plans do you have to assist potential homeowners.
Hon. Manitok Thompson (interpretation): For those who want to build their own houses we have set aside 1 million dollars.
If we divide them it means that 500 thousand was set aside for the Baffin area, the Keewatin 250 thousand and the Kitikmeot 250 thousand.
These monies would be to give assistance for homeowners to purchase a building.
But that was the only money we could set aside because of those 100 units that we are going to be building.
In regards to loans, it used to be very problematic to the clients, for example if he took a mortgage from a bank and built their own house they were not eligible to rent a public house.
Or if they had arrears with the Housing Corporation.
That was the situation in earlier years. Is that going to be the case Chairperson.
That used to be the case in the earlier years.
Those people that bought their own housing were not eligible to rent public housing.
Under certain circumstances we were able to review the situation and assist them however we could.
We are trying to make it a little bit easier on those types of clients.
That is very good to hear.
In the past tenants were evicted because they owed arrears to the housing authority.
What is this present Housing Corporation going to do.
Chairperson (interpretation): Madame minister.
Like I said earlier in my opening comments we are setting up a 5-year plan.
There are evictions for tenants who do not pay their monthly Bills. There are many people who are just sitting there not paying their rent.
They are not even concerned about paying their arrears.
Somebody has to pay for the unit.
You just cannot live in a unit without paying rent today.
It does not seem right to live in a house and not pay for it.
It seems clear enough already but there are clients who are on social assistance and rents are being paid by social services and I believe that is ninety-three percent of the population, and they pay thirty-two dollars.
If you cannot pay for your unit social services pays for it.
Utility Bills and everything else is paid by social services.
There is not much of an option, they either pay rent or the tenants in arrears make monthly instalments on their arrears in order to avoid eviction.
There are some people who just want to stay in those units without paying their monthly rents and their arrears grow and grow.
I understand the response very well.
But still when you have people living in one unit, take myself for an example, I'm employed and my 2 children also work and they have to pay for their own portion of rent for their rooms.
It seems you triple the amount of rent is being paid out for the unit.
I am just wondering because it seems you triple the amount of rent for the unit.
Will it continue to stay the same.
Madame minister.
The task force gave me recommendations numbering fifteen items.
So that document there contains the recommendations in regards to renting and we are going to look at that.
If we change the rules at the Housing Corporation they have to be approved by the Canada Mortgage and Housing programs.
We do appreciate those concerns.
Yes you definitely are going to have to look into the that. If you hold a person responsible who lives in a unit and the unit is under his name and the other people start working, then the older person is being charged rent. They seems to be forced to live by two different rules.
Arrears just get created through that situation.
Hon. Manitok Thompson (interpretation): Yes I understand the situation he is referring to.
Say a person is sixty or over he should not have to pay any more rent.
Housing is paid for on his behalf. Whether he lives with younger people in his unit, what you have to understand is what I said earlier in Inuktitut.