EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Speaker (interpretation): Minister responsible for the Nunavut Power Corporation, Mr. Kilabuk.
Yes, I can assure the member and the Members of this House that we have indeed eliminated excessive management bonuses.
Looking at excessive bonuses, it’s too bad that the previous minister and government didn’t catch this a little sooner.
It could have deleted some of these problems.
Mr. Speaker, one of the other problems that are identified in the Auditor General’s Report: the Power Corporation is having problems with accurate customer billing.
I’ve spoken to a number of Iqaluit residents in recent days and it appears that the Power Corporation has not issued bills to customers for quite some time.
As a matter of fact I just today received my first bill in two months.
I would like to ask the minister what the problem has been, and what’s being done to address it.
Speaker (interpretation): Minister responsible for the Power Corporation, Minister Simailak.
What we have done is we have put in a whole complete new software package that deals with that and solves all of those problems that we had in the past.
Speaker: Your second supplementary, Mr. Tootoo.
The Auditor General’s Report also points out the fact that the Power Corporation was charged $110,000 in late filing penalties by Canada’s Revenue Agency in 2002.
What action has been taken to hold those responsible accountable for this serious loss, and who’s going to pay for that?
As I have mentioned earlier, I have three full-time accountants working in the Baker Lake office.
Our staff, our accounting staff, have been given more training, a new software package, and all of that is now… (interpretation) yes, this is going to be better.
It is good to hear the minister state that things are going to get better, and I know that that’s a comment that was echoed by the government.
It claims that work of the crown corporation and the Crown Agency Council will improve matters and make things better.
I would like to ask the minister if he could indicate how many meetings between the Qulliq Energy Corporation and the Nunavut Power Corporation and the council have taken place during 2004, and what decisions and directions have been taken?
Hon. David Simailak: Mr. Speaker, I am sorry, I do not have that information right now, but I can get back to the member.
Speaker (interpretation): Question is taken as notice.
Question 051 – 2(1): Incorrect Billing Address (Alagalak)
Mr. Alagalak (interpretation): I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Nunavut Power Corporation.
Last year, we were told that it was going to be getting a lot better, but it is still the same as it was, especially in the Keewatin region.
It seems that they have two addresses: one in Rankin Inlet and the other in Baker Lake.
People that have already paid get two bills, one is for Rankin Inlet and one is for Baker Lake.
It is the reason why their power did not get cut off, and it is not a very good way of doing things.
It seems that a lot of times the payments are just in the basket, they are under the file, because they send them to the wrong address and just stay within that office.
It does not get returned to the appropriate place.
I would like to know if you have done something about this.
Speaker (interpretation): Minister of Energy, Mr. Simailak.
Hon. David Simailak (interpretation): Yes, now we will be doing everything out of Baker Lake instead of Rankin Inlet.
Question 052 – 2(1): Auditor’s Report – Leasing Practices (Peterson)
My question is for the Minister of Finance, and again it concerns yesterday’s Report of the Auditor General.
The Auditor General’s Report raised some serious questions about the government’s leasing and property purchasing practices.
On page 56, one of the unanswered questions noted by the Auditor General is why the government apparently paid $175,000 more than it had to for the purchase of the Sivumut Building here in Iqaluit.
Mr. Speaker, it should be noted that $175,000 would pay for a lot of scholarships for Nunavut students to attend post-secondary schools.
My question for the minister: can the minister explain to this House why this decision was made?
Speaker (interpretation): Minister of Finance, Ms. Aglukkaq.
I am reading the report, as I sit here. Page 56-7, the issue related to the decision to award $175,000 —I don’t have that information in front of me, myself.
The auditors tried to figure that out as well through the Department of Health and Social Services.
I can assure the members, though, there are a number of serious issues that were raised in the Auditor General’s Report that I will take the lead in trying to address and look into corrected measures for addressing how this particular health contract was dealt with.
I have been advised that in the fall of last year the government committed in writing to providing MLAs with a copy of its new Leasing Policy.
This new policy was referred to in public meetings last year.
I wonder if the minister could tell the House when the government’s Leasing Policy will be tabled in this House.
Speaker (interpretation): Minister of Finance, Minister Aglukkaq.
In terms of the Leasing Policy, I believe yesterday in Committee of the Whole I assured members that I would provide that information under capital projects, and the second part of his question, I missed it.
I am just going to clarify for the minister that I was wondering; when will the government commit to tabling the leasing policy in this House.
If she could get that information.
I will look into that at the end of today, providing information to the members by tomorrow.
Mr. Curley
Question 053 – 2(1): Payment of $800,000 under a Verbal Agreement – Auditor General’s Report (Curley)
Mr. Curley (interpretation): Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Energy about the corporation.
On page 37 it says that NPC paid $800,000 to a supplier.
I would like to ask the minister if he could look into this because there are no contracts and I feel that it is not appropriate that you tell not to do it again.
Speaker: Minister of Energy, Minister Simailak.
Yes, we have already reviewed this.
This was from July, 2002 and we have done this already.
I would like to ask the Minister of the Power Corporation, that when we were reading this, the Auditor General does have a concern that the Crown corporation —they have not looked after their finances properly.
Now that it is going to be delayed a little bit so that we can look at this carefully, I would like to ask that the Qulliq Energy Corporation… How are they going to get funding?
Where is the funding going to be coming from because we know that supplies are going to be going up at all time?
I would like to remind you that you have to think about this very carefully.
How is the Qulliq Corporation going to be making money, or through the PPDs, now that they are running well?
I feel that it should be them instead of another Power Corporation.
My colleagues I’m sure will be considered full heartedly in the upcoming month.
Question 054 – 2(1): Tabling of Public Accounts (Barnabas)
My question is for the Minister of Finance. (interpretation ends) It is almost June now, and the government public accounts are almost six months late.
Even the Auditor General has lost patience with the government and delays in tabling these important documents.
My question to the ministers: will the public accounts be tabled before the session of this House is finished?
Speaker (interpretation): Minister for Finance, Honourable Leona Aglukkaq.
The public accounts, we have those.
Cabinet is meeting on Thursday to review it to approve for tabling on Friday.
My question is —the government can’t seem to obey the law on tabling the public accounts on time.
Speaker (interpretation): Minister of Finance, Honourable Leona Aglukkaq.
From what I understand, when public accounts are completed, the first available session is when they are tabled in the House.
The reports, from what I understand, in the past have been late, and there are a number of questions or concerns around that.
A lot of it has to do with different fiscal year-ends.
One example is the Nunavut Arctic College year end ends in June, whereas other corporations have different year-ends.
The reporting is different, and it delays the process of consolidating all the public accounts.
So that one being a major reason behind that.
Oral Questions, Mr. Tootoo.
Question 055 – 2(1): Tabling of all Ministerial Directives (Tootoo)
My first question is for the Minister of Finance.
In the fall of last year the government tabled a written response to the report and a recommendation of the standing committee that reviewed the previous Auditor General’s Report.
One of the committee’s recommendations was that the government table copies of all the ministerial directives made to Crown corporations.
Although the government’s response claimed that no ministerial directives were made since April 1, 1999, yesterday’s Report of the Auditor General revealed that directives were issued.
On page 46, exhibit 7.1 of the report, they were issued on March 16, 2001 and May 20, 2003, to the Nunavut Business Credit Corporation and another Crown corporation that the Auditor General has identified we’re in problems with.
Mr. Speaker, my question for the minister is: when will the government table, in this House, copies of all ministerial directives made to Crown corporations?
Not knowing the details of what happened prior to this session, I can look into what the written responses and recommendations were for further information on the question that he is posing.
But what I understand, as a government, whether they are directives or not, I’m reading as I go along, whether there is an obligation under the Financial Administration Act responsibilities to table directives for this House… I can look into that; I can also look into whether they were directives for the directors, aside from what was identified in this report.
I’m sure that the minister responsible works with the Crown corporation’s council or Crown Agency Council in coming up with these directives for them.
I would like to ask the minister what the government’s new council has accomplished to date, and are they looking at any more directives for Crown corporations.
Yes, there is a Crown Agency Council in place, and I chair that committee.
I will be looking at all the recommendations that are in the Auditor General’s Report as it relates to the financial management practices of the crown agencies and reporting.
The Crown Agency Council was established six months ago, so there is much work to be done.
It was recognized there were some issues, and we are taking corrective measures to deal with some of the concerns outlined in the report.
However, I would also state that in light of the concerns we’re dealing with, or issues of this nature, there will be further directives from the Crown Agency Council, in terms of how they report their finances.
Maybe to avoid confusion and things getting forgotten about, like those other directives are missed, would the minister commit to tabling a report of some kind that would indicate any actions, or directions, etcetera, that the Crown Agency Council has done on a regular basis.
Speaker (interpretation): Minister responsible for Finance, Ms. Aglukkaq.
I would have to consider that a bit more seriously —the Crown Agency Council, chaired by myself, involves other Cabinet Members— to release discussions of the Cabinet Members to the House.
I’m a bit concerned about that.
Normally the decisions of Cabinet, or the Financial Management Board, are confidential within the system.
So, in terms of how we deal with these issues at that level, I would have to consider seriously before I would consider releasing any information discussed at the Crown Agency Council.
I’m not asking the minister to divulge the debate and arguments that may happen, or conversations that may happen within the council, and to breach Cabinet secrecy and confidentiality.
In the spirit of openness and transparency which is something that all members of this House strive for, and this government is supposed to be working towards, I don’t see anything wrong with providing and tabling information on the action and direction after those conclusions are made by that council for direction and things that the Agency is putting forward.
So, again, I ask the minister —you know, I’m not looking for the debate on different issues but on the decisions and the actions— that once things have been agreed to, at that level, they be tabled.
I would like to go back to the issue of the Auditor General’s Report.
There are a number of issues and concerns she raised related to a number of agencies.
Each of those agencies will be focusing their energies on trying to address those.
In some cases they have already started that process.
In terms of going back to your question in getting Cabinet decisions tabled in this House, I will not put those forward in this House, nor will I put Financial Management Board decisions into this House.
That is normal practice of government in any other jurisdiction.
The Crown Agency Council decisions are at the Cabinet level, but I think within that we should respect the confidentiality of those discussions.
Having said that, in terms of what is addressed in the Auditor General’s Report, you will look to each department responsible to address some of those and report on them.
Question 056 – 2(1): Power Bill Payments (Kattuk)
I would like to direct this to the Minister responsible for the Power Corporation.
We’ve been experiencing problems from all the communities.
And when my colleague asked a question about Keewatin people sending their payments to Rankin Inlet and Baker Lake... How about in the Baffin region?
How are we going to be paying for our bills?
Speaker (interpretation): Minister responsible for Energy, Mr. Simailak.
I have no idea at the time how the Baffin region processes to pay bills, but once I get that I’ll relay that information to my colleague.
Mr. Kattuk (interpretation): Thank you for the response Mr. Speaker, but I would like to remind the minister that some individuals’ power is cut off even though they paid for their bill monthly. At times we don’t know what happens to the payments because some clients’ power bills have been cut off. The reason why I’m asking that is usually in Baffin there are two payment locations.
I would like the minister to reassure me that they will be considering this.
And about the 48-hour notice: this 48-hour notice for power cut off is insufficient time.
It is too short of a time.
Will the minister commit to me that he can extend the 48 hours to longer hours?
Speaker (interpretation): Minister responsible for the Energy Corporation, Mr. Simailak.
To my colleague’s statement: yes, we are now considering this as we speak and I expect to see improvements on it.
Question 057 – 2(1): Decision on Fuel Rider Issue (Peterson)
My question is for the Minister of Energy.
The government’s response to the Auditor General’s Report on problems associated with the Nunavut Power Corporation states, and I’ll quote here, it is on page 42, “… the corporation is developing a plan to resolve the present financial situation.
The general applications re-establishing the fuel rider, the consolidation of existing short term debt into a new long term debt issue, and an understanding of the corporation requirement to earn adequate return on equity are integral to the resolution.”
I was reading the Minister of Finance’s budget address and she said the Power Corporation will administer a $10 million subsidy this year to offset the impact on consumer utility bills of the fuel stabilization rider that will be introduced by the Qulliq Energy Corporation to help offset the increasing cost of fuel.
My question for the minister is: has a decision to re-establish the fuel rider been approved by cabinet and when will it come into effect?
Yes, I assure the member that cabinet is working on the issue.
Supplementary: the law requires that the Utilities Rates Review Council review applications for rates for tariffs such as the fuel rider.
Has the Utilities Rates Review Council reviewed an application to re-establish a fuel rider; if so, will its report be tabled in the House?
Speaker: Minister responsible for Energy, Mr. Simailak.
No, we have not approached the URRC yet because there’s no application from Nunavut Power Corporation yet.
It’s almost the middle of May and a new fiscal year. I’m wondering if the minister is anticipating an application very soon.
Hon. David Simailak (interpretation): Like I said, the corporation is looking at whether a general rate application is the best way to address revenue shortfalls, and that review should be done very soon.
I’m wondering if the minister could give us a specific date as to when we could see that information in the House.
Hon. David Simailak (interpretation): The information can be tabled, Mr. Speaker, once the Cabinet has reviewed it.
Question 058 – 2(1): Tabling of Information on Directing Crown Corporations (Curley)
I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Finance with respect to the questions from the Auditor General’s Report.
They are very important and very serious in regard to the Crown corporations.
The Auditor General stated that they have not had any good reporting, and that the information was not adequate, even though the money was not controlled properly. And there was no good direction from the government, as well.
For that reason, I would like to continue on from the Member for Cambridge Bay’s question: would the minister table in this House how the Crown corporations can be directed to do better reporting because the Auditor General has already stated that there was no adequate reporting system from the Crown corporations.
I would like to ask the minister: even if you don’t table the directives, can you kind of give us information that these kinds of things will be corrected?
In terms of responding to the issues that were raised by the Auditor General, there are some responses in the report, from the government, on the issues raised.
In terms of trying to address the immediate concerns on the direction given to Crown Agency Council, a Crown Agency Council within the government was established, which I chair, that will oversee the implementation of the issues that have been addressed.
As well, an internal audit division was established within Finance to provide interim audits of corporations, or any other department, or to provide assistance to departments to address some of those, and I don’t mind presenting or providing updates to these issues as they are dealt with by the Crown corporations.
I would like to thank the minister for her response that she will be able to give us a bit of information.
The Crown corporations, the entities of the Government of Nunavut, they are not minister’s… It states in the Auditor General’s Report that they have to be given adequate information —they are not private clubs and the minister is the chair of the Power Corporation.
Will you be considering to report to the Members of the Legislative Assembly on the goings on of the Crown corporations because we as private members cannot ask her questions.
Speaker (interpretation): Ms. Aglukkaq.
In my earlier response I mentioned that I have no problems in providing periodic reports to the regular members.
I have made it a practice since being in this portfolio to update, informally, members on main estimates or sub-bills.
In a similar fashion, I will continue to do that and provide the information to the regular members.
I can assure Nunavummiut and this House that Crown corporations are not private clubs.
They are corporations that are given public funding and the information provided in the Auditor General’s Report is serious and we are looking into the matter.
Immediately, we had addressed some of the concerns by changing the management of the Power Corporation and putting in financial staff to oversee the concerns reported.
Again, I said the Crown Agency Council within Cabinet, chaired by myself, is looking into these on a regular basis.
So, as information arrives, I will present that to the members.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): Yes.
And I would like to thank the minister for her response. Perhaps if you cannot answer this question the Auditor General will answer the question for us.
This is not just the regular members’ council here in the Legislative Assembly, but it is for all the members.
So, for that reason, I would like you to report to the Legislative Assembly instead of just to the regular members.
Speaker (interpretation): Minister for Finance, Ms. Aglukkaq.
I will continue to provide the information to regular members in an informal fashion.
The appropriate ministers for those portfolios can update the House as to what corrective measures are taken to address the Auditor General’s Report.
Each minister is assigned a portfolio and their responsibility is to present an update.
Through them, you will receive the update as to how the Auditor General’s recommendations are being addressed.
Question 059 – 2(1): Tabling of URRC Review of the Fuel Stabilization Rider (Tootoo)
My question is for the Minister responsible for the Power Corporation and I want to follow up on the questions posed by my colleague from Cambridge Bay on this fuel stabilization rider.
The Budget Address by the Minister of Finance had indicated that there is going to be $10 million in the Department of Finance for subsidized implementation or the cost of the implementation of the fuel stabilization rider by the Power Corporation.
The minister indicated, when asked about it earlier, that they are looking at a general rate review application in there, but separate than the rider. And that was done and looked at last year by the former minister for that, then rejected by Cabinet, and it is quite obvious they have come up with the $10 million number.
They know, and you know what they are looking at bringing forward.
When does the minister plan on providing that information to the Utility Rates Review Council for them to review?
It is quite obvious that the information is all there already if they have a number already plugged in to the budget.
So when is that going to be brought forward to the URRC, and when will the Members of this Assembly be made aware, as required by law, of that application and that request?
All I can say at the moment is that, no, we have not received an application from Nunavut Power Corporation yet for a GRI.
Once that application is received then it will go through the appropriate steps.
The minister seems to be taking advice from the former minister responsible.
You may want to caution him on that and say look at what was passed on to him.
Mr. Speaker, I wasn’t asking about a general rate increase.
I was asking about the fuel stabilization rider.
That money has already been appropriated.
It is in the budget.
That was announced by the Minister of Finance today, —there is $10 million there to subsidize that.
So they obviously know; the corporation knows that everything is all set up.
He must have done something to come up with the number.
When is the minister planning on requesting that the URRC review the fuel stabilization rider application?
And when will the minister advise Members of this House, as required by law, of when that will happen?
That is all that I am asking.
I am not asking about the general rate application, I am asking about the fuel stabilization rider.
Just to make sure I explain it very clearly to my colleague, let me get back to my staff and get the correct answer.
I can appreciate the minister wanting to get the accurate information to the members of this House.
Can the minister indicate to me, and to the House, if he is aware of that application coming forward, and has he seen the working documents on that yet, or is it still something that he is not aware of at all?
Speaker (interpretation): Minister responsible for Energy, Minister Simailak.
I add that information to the information that I will be giving to my colleagues.
Also, earlier the minister indicated that the application was going to be reviewed and approved by Cabinet.
He had indicated that already.