EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
If it’s not running properly, you have to be able to fix it because Nunavut people pay taxes too.
I think the services to the communities should be improved, especially for the elders.
If I can talk about the drug trade because I read an article in the newspaper that said in Quebec alone last year, I think it was about $20 million worth of activity in drug trade, because the drug traders are making a huge amount of money.
There should be more done about it because some elders, such as our parents and our elders do not understand the impact of drugs to children in the communities.
I think you should have more help.
If it’s just the responsibility of the RCMP, we only feel criminal activity should be reported to the RCMP, but this is not the case.
There should be more information. Even though the public has knowledge about people doing criminal activity, they don’t seem to report anybody.
I would like to urge the minister to try to stop the drug trade in Nunavut.
Yes, we deal with this issue on a daily basis, and sometimes we don’t see the investigations being done.
But sometimes they need assistance in order to work on this properly and that the community residents inform the RCMP officers as to what is happening in the community level and what kinds of activities are occurring in the community.
But, this year, we will be working very closely with the RCMP with regards to the Family Abuse Intervention Act, so if we focus on one issue to eradicate it, that’s the only way, as I have been working with the government for quite some time.
If you have a good objective, you can reduce the amount of assaults.
I know that if we change our focus, we’re not going to reach our goal right away, so for that reason, for this upcoming fiscal year, we want to focus mainly on the Family Abuse Intervention Act.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): Thank you. Yes, these are all very important issues. For example, according to my understanding, I believe that they need to understand this more, and the RCMP officers should work closely with the public out there and to work closely with the people and have a good relationship with them.
Mr. Arvaluk stated that if we start using Inuit societal values there will be less violence in the communities.
Since we have that Act that prevails and these are corrective measures and they have to go through the courts.
I believe that the drug trade is one of our priorities. I don’t know what level of the priority it is.
If it’s not the first priority but because it deters the youths and also it increases the violent activities.
Bootlegging of liquor, is that part of the Premier’s priorities?
As Members of the Legislature we passed legislation to eradicate family abuse.
This year we will be implementing the Family Abuse Prevention Act.
That’s our priority because it’s shameful that we have the highest rates of assaults.
That’s why we worked hard this year. We will continually work with the criminal activities to make sure that they’re caught.
But using Inuit societal values to try and eradicate the criminal activities but if we change our focus we’re not going to move as fast.
So we will work harder this year to focus on that.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): I don’t believe it’s going to change the work of the department because it’s not changing the communities’ enforcement of justice.
So we need to stop the drug trade because it is the leading factor of young people’s suicide.
If it’s not the minister’s priority where is it in his priorities?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. He asked us to identify our priority; our priority is to eradicate family violence.
The RCMP officers are not going to stop working against the drug trade because we, at the Legislative Assembly, agreed to work and focus on family abuse intervention with the assistance of all the departments, and by working with all the departments such as Culture, Language, Elders and Youth, and the Department of Health and Social Services.
We’ll work closely with the departments and the officials to implement the Act, and to make sure that the implementation of the Act is fulfilled so we can eradicate it by focusing on it diligently.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): My next question is in regard to the Legal Services Board.
I am sure that we’ll be able to see their annual report or if they can table their annual report.
I believe that they spend large sums of money: the Legal Services Board almost $5 million.
How can the Board give advice because the legal counsel is provided through this line item to the communities?
Can the minister update us, prior to the court party coming into your community if someone had called the Legal Services Board to make sure that they are well prepared ahead of time before the court party arrives to the communities? Could that be done?
The way it is set up now, prior to the individual’s court date, perhaps about two days prior to the court date before the court circuit travels, the legal counsels travel to the communities first and meet with the clients. So that’s how the system is set.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): If the system is working, or if that’s being used now, there was an individual who had never even seen a lawyer or counsel and he went to the courthouse and the judge had already decided.
So I was wondering why this individual ... maybe this was an isolated incident and I’m sure we’ll look into that.
In regard to the Human Rights Tribunal, one of the issues that I mentioned, we felt that there was a human rights issue.
I was wondering how the minister can respond to the individuals who had made a complaint. Where should they be making their human rights complaints, or who should they be writing their letters to?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Yes, they have an office in Coral Harbour and they have a 1-800 number. We don’t have that toll-free number right now but I will table that toll-free number to the members and to the public out there.
I have no more names on my list for general questions. (interpretation ends) We’re on page E-5.
Total Operations and Maintenance. $8,652,000. (interpretation) Do you agree?
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you. (interpretation ends) E-7.
Branch Summary. Law Enforcement.
There are people who call us because they confused about making a phone call in regard to the dog that was introduced to Nunavut to help with the illicit selling and bootlegging.
As I watched the dog in the airport in Rankin Inlet when he was at work, this dog had caught many people and there were lots of people happy to see that occurring.
We hear that we need more police dogs
So how can the Premier provide us support because we need additional police dogs, whether the police dog gets offspring or not.
I know that the RCMP are working, or making a proposal to the federal government and they are now working towards that because this police dog has been very beneficial because they train the dogs and the trainers are trained both at the same time.
Can the minister tell us ... I think it was two years ago that we posed questions to the fact that it’s very expensive to have a dog and I think it costs about $15,000. Due to the lack of resources, we were unable to get a second dog.
With it being so expensive, if they cannot afford to purchase a dog, could the Government of Nunavut help them?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Yes, the RCMP has been requesting additional support from the federal government and we are in support of their request.
I know that they will have to work on this issue in the future.
Mr. Alagalak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you Mr. Premier.
I know that they’re working very hard to get an additional dog. Have you found out when we can expect receive an additional dog.
At this time we don’t know when it will be.
Chairman (interpretation): We’re on E-7. (interpretation ends) Law Enforcement.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you. Page E-8. Justice Branch.
I have another question under this with regard to lawyers.
Those students that were in Akitsiraq Law School, you mentioned in your opening remarks that you will employ Akitsiraq Law School graduates.
Under the main estimates, where will they be stationed?
Where will their office be Mr. Chairman?
They will be in Iqaluit.
Two of them will be working for the Legal Services Board, and three of them will be in my office.
It’s very nice to hear, even though I didn’t hear where those two will be. The lawyers for court circuits: will they be part of that team? Will they be lawyers for that?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Yes, two of them will be at the Legal Services Board to assist people, and they will be lawyers, one for family matters, and one for criminal matters, and they will also travel to the communities.
I didn’t hear properly, but you said three of them will be in your office, but the other two; they will have offices here in Iqaluit?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Yes, they will have an office here, but if they’re going to defend people who have to appear in court, they will be travelling to the communities, and I was just told that three will be in prosecution.
So they may have to work against each other, even though they are Inuit.
I can already see how that will be, but I wonder if they will be able to travel to the communities way ahead of the court time.
Today those people that will be in prosecution, even if they get stuck, it won’t matter.
In some communities the court date is set and those people who have to appear in court, will they have more communication that if they request a lawyer ahead of when the court is scheduled?
What we use now is they go to the community one or two days ahead of the scheduled court date.
They do go to the communities to talk with clients for those clients who have to appear before the court, and for witnesses.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister. (interpretation ends) We are still on Page E-8. (interpretation) I went back. (interpretation ends) Justice.
Lawyer Support Services. Total Operations and Maintenance.
On Page E-17 of the business plan, under priorities for 2007, there is a bullet there ‘to expand the division’s capacity to respond to complex and costly litigation against the government’.
I wonder if the minister could expand a little bit on that on that. What does the statement mean?
What kinds of lawsuits are you receiving? Are they from government employees or from companies? Who would be suing the Government of Nunavut?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) Traditionally we have only had about one or two counsels dedicated for this position, but with case loads we are trying to increase our capacity. A lot of times we end up contracting out some defence so we are trying to build up some capacity with the Akitsiraq Law Students. We want to increase the capacity of that so we could respond to it internally with our own employees.
I thank the minister for that answer. I wonder if the minister could give us an idea of how many lawsuits the Government of Nunavut is currently dealing with.
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) In various ways, I think it is close to 15 but I can stand to be corrected. I could provide more details later, but it comes and goes.
Mr. Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the minister for that answer. I wonder if the minister could give us an idea, the type of lawsuits that come from employees or are they external to the government.
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) Usually it is a mix of both.
Justice. Branch Summary. Lawyer Support Services.
Total Operations and Maintenance. $2,658,000.
Justice. Branch Summary. Registration and Court Services.
Total Operations and Maintenance. $7,072,000. (interpretation) Do you agree?
Don’t wait until the last second.
A quick question in the description there; the enforcement of court orders for financial support to spouses and/or children; can the minister give us an idea of how many of those types of orders are going on in Nunavut?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I can’t provide numbers but it’s a combination of child support orders, spousal support orders, and so those, like anything, vary on any given day, so I can’t provide an exact number at this time.
Oh, sorry. For example, since February 2000, since we opened, there have been 260 files related to these matters.
Justice Branch. Registries and Court Services. Total Operations and Maintenance. $7,072,000. (interpretation) Do you agree?
Chairman: Thank you. Page E-10. Justice Branch.
I believe this area probably considers dangerous offenders. Do you have a system in place to track dangerous offenders when they’re released back into Nunavut or into the various communities?
Hon. Paul Okalik: Yes, it’s a difficult area for us because usually dangerous offenders are federal inmates, so we’re often placed in the middle, which is not enviable for us.
Sometimes, like in one case we weren’t notified until a week before, so it was a struggle.
So it’s usually the RCMP that can issue warnings to the communities and they’ve been doing a very good job in that, but in some cases it’s a matter of also going to court and applying for an order for recognizance.
So it’s a mixed area that we do hope can be improved.
Mr. Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the minister for that answer. I believe in Cambridge Bay there are probably as many as ten dangerous offenders that we know of, and they have to be supervised by the corrections officers when they come back to town.
And they’re quite dangerous when they’re violent.
The corrections officers are in the building where I am located. On occasion, probably four or five times, I’ve heard this, there are these fellows who have to come in to meet with their probation officer, and there’s a lot of yelling that occurs, not the corrections officer; it’s usually the dangerous offender who’s doing the yelling. And then you can hear them running up and down the hall slamming doors and threatening the corrections officer.
So that confirms myself, I’ve gone out and checked on the corrections officers, they’re not frightened but it’s a stressful situation for them. Anything in those meetings could go wrong.
I’m wondering if the minister could provide me with some information on how his department supports the Community Corrections Officers to ensure their safety when they’re in meetings with dangerous offenders. Or, if they have to go to their places of residence to meet them, how do they ensure their safety and protection?
If they’re dangerous offenders, they are permanently held in jail.
So, we may want to reclassify what we’re talking about. They’re probably released inmates that have done time.
In those instances, we always have two probation workers meeting with the person that has been convicted of a violence offence and been released. So, that’s standard practice for the protection of the workers.
I’m not 100 percent of the exact classifications of these individuals, but they certainly are violent men, and they can explode at any time. So it is a concern to me because I’ve seen it firsthand and heard it firsthand because my office is pretty close to your officer’s office. I hope that their safety is protected.
The other day, Mr. Chairman, when we were reviewing the Department of Health and Social Services, there was a statement in the Health Department’s business plan that the transfer of the community corrections service was deferred.
We know that social workers are doing some of the correction services in some of the communities, and that was deferred.
I’m wondering if the minister could clarify: what is the relationship these days between the community corrections officers and the social workers in terms of the social workers providing community corrections officers’ duties in the communities?
Yes, we do have an ongoing relationship with Social Services where the numbers don’t warrant probation workers in some communities and that was dealt with by way of memorandum of understanding and that is ongoing.
Does the minister see some year, in the foreseeable future when social workers will not have to do double-duty as community corrections officer?
Hon. Paul Okalik: It is difficult for me at this time with caseloads and the resources that we do have at the government to decide what will happen in the future but for instance, there has been increasing caseloads in Gjoa Haven and Igloolik, so we’ll be putting probation workers there.
The caseload dictates the resources that will be required.
In some communities, there’s not a lot of caseload and it would be difficult to justify a probation worker at this time with the resources that we do have.
Chairman: Page E-10.
Under the Business Plan, E-31, under the Corrections, “Corrections administers programs that include adults and young offenders’ institutions, including on the land camp operations, open custody homes.” And also, “... to administer on the land camp operators in open custody.”
Those things happen because we lack recreational facilities, like arenas, in this case.
(interpretation) In regard to the on the land program the camp operators are usually contracted by the government and their per diems and pays are identified.
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): I apologize. I didn’t understand your question. Could you rephrase it please?
Mr. Arvaluk, if you would rephrase your question, please?
As I stated earlier we need recreational facilities, like arenas for example.
In regard to the on the land camp operations and open custody homes there’s one such thing in Pond Inlet. Either they’re young offenders, or minor offenders.
Do you outline how much they’re going to be making?
If they’re going to be included in the on the land they’re paid on a per diem basis. That is set up by the Justice Department.
We appreciate them helping us, especially with the youth.
Mr. Arvaluk: Is there a standard contract that is being signed by both the government and the service provider?
I will have my deputy respond to that question.
Mr. Weber.
Mr. Weber: Thank you.
Yes, we do. We issue these contracts and sign these contracts with the camp operators based on a request for proposals that we do on a regular basis when we need additional camps. They are standard contracts for all of the operators.
The terms of the contracts are fairly detailed but the large numbers you’d be interested in are that there is a $6,000 capital amount in the first year and then $3,000 the following two years of a three year contract. That’s for them to purchase ski-doos, upgrade ski-doos, buy qamutiks, all the things that they need to get to and from camp and upgrade them to a level that we need for corrections.
Then they get daily rates for the inmates that are staying with them. Those vary depending on the number of inmates.
It starts at $145 per day for the first inmate and then it goes down slightly for two, three, or four inmates, if there are more staying with them.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Weber.
Mr. Arvaluk: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The harder it gets the less money they get paid. Just kidding.
Are they given, for example, $145 a day per person, are they given an advance to start the camp program? For example, half of the contract value?
No, but as Mr. Weber said, they’re given $6,000 for capital at the commencement of the contract.
Some of these, for example, who are operating for 30 days, for example, I don’t think they are qualified to get $6,000 upgrade of their equipment.
However, they still need upgrade money for supplies, gas etcetera. They are not given like when they sign a contract don’t they get a portion of their contract paid in advance and the rest when they complete the service?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) We stated they get $6,000 when they initially start and thereafter $3,000 every subsequent year. So there is advance money and after that, depending on the level of funding they get paid for having the inmates in their custody.
Page E-10.
Justice. Branch Summary. Corrections.
Total Operations and Maintenance. $15,460,000.
Chairman: Page E-11 which goes into Page E-12.
Justice. Branch Summary. Community Justice.
I would like to ask the minister about the last sentence there. The division also supports the development of victims’ services at a community level.
Can the minister expand on this statement? What exactly does the department do to help the victims at the community level?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) So far we have made contributions on an application basis so we have a fund that was established specifically for this and I don’t know all the details as to how much we have given out this year but in some years there is a lot more proposals and some not as much so it depends. It’s proposal driven so that’s what we use it for.
Everyone knows, in Nunavut we have a very high crime rate and for every crime there is a victim or victims.
I wonder if the minister and his department have given any consideration to setting up organizations in each community that would specifically serve victims of violent crime or any other types of crime against themselves.
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I appreciate the question from my colleague.
That is what we are studying with the legislation that we passed in the fall, so we are trying to study the best way of implementing it. That will be one of the considerations that we will have to look at seriously.
So my officials are working with other departments to see what will be the best way of implementing the legislation.
Mr. Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the minister for that comment.
I’m happy to hear that because it just seems to me and probably to a lot of us in Nunavut that there is more help for the offenders than there are for victims and I think we have to support and help both sides.
I think we have to put more resources into helping victims. As we heard the other day there are only four crisis shelters in Nunavut and there are a lot of ladies and children in Nunavut who are suffering seriously at the hands of a lot of violent men. So I do think we should weigh as a government and the minister’s department should take a lead role in establishing something at the community level where the victims can receive counselling and they can walk into an office and be treated in confidence and be heard.
Just like someone to go into the legal aid office here.
That’s more of a comment, but I certainly support the minister’s efforts taken in getting something done at the community level to help the victims of crime.
Hon. Paul Okalik: It was a comment, so I agree with the member. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I knew it was a comment.
Page E-11.
Total Operations and Maintenance. $1,953,000. (interpretation) Do you agree?
Chairman: Go back to page E-4. E-4.
Justice. Department Summary.
Total Operations and Maintenance. $57,072,000. (interpretation) Do you agree?
Last words?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, very much, Mr. Chairman, and also my colleagues.
Thank you very much for your suggestions and the comments that were made around the table.
At this time I would like to make a motion to adjourn.
All those in favour, raise your hand, please.
Only two.
I’m sorry. The motion is carried.
Thank you, Mr. Evyagotailak.
A reminder of two meetings for Monday morning; first one at nine o’clock in the morning of the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Accountability, and at ten o’clock a special meeting of the regular caucus in the Nanuq Boardroom.
Orders of the Day for March 26:
Motion 5 – 2(4)
Motion 6 – 2(4)
Motion 7 – 2(4)
Speaker (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Clerk. This House stands adjourned until Monday, March 26, at 1:30 p.m.
Monday, March 26, 2007
Pages 880 – 979
Opening Prayer 880
Ministers’ Statements 880
Members’ Statements 882
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery 886
Oral Questions 887
Point of Privilege 908
Point of Order 909
Tabled Documents 910
Motions 912
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters 914