EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Now we see the problems in the middle school here in Iqaluit in grade five, six, and seven, that they are having all kinds of problems up there.
A majority, a large chunk of the students up there are on independent learning programs.
I have a suspicion, I don’t know for sure if that is it or not, it is the result of those students that are going through the Inuktitut program with the high ratios that are not getting the same level of education, it’s not getting the same level as the English stream.
Again, not because of the teachers, but because of the limited resources that are there for them to work with.
Then you get into high school, like I said, fifty percent of the kids that go into Grade 10 drop out.
Out of those fifty percent, I wonder how many, I haven’t looked at the percentage, actually graduate?
Out of those ones, how many actually go on to post secondary education, whether it is college or university?
These are the things that we need to closely look at and identify if we are ever going to want to change what is happening here right now.
This is again, as far as I am concerned, this is just more of the status quo.
Some of the other things that you wonder about, they talk about the kids that are dropping out if there were trades programs offered in schools the way they were funded.
Go back to program funding.
Provide the programs in the schools to meet the needs of the students that are there.
Not everyone is academically inclined.
A lot of those kids that are dropping out, if they were taught a trade or pre-trades course, could be some of the best electricians, carpenters and mechanics out there because a lot of those kids have those skills but they don’t have an opportunity to have them brought out in them and realise them because it’s not offered in our system.
Another important area, I think that I am disappointed hasn’t really been addressed that much in here is the whole idea of early childhood development programs.
I think that’s the key area that we need to focus on as well if we want to try and address the problems in schools.
Good early childhood development programs to prepare our children to enter into the school system so that they hit the ground running and they’re not trying to crawl and catch up to the different levels.
They’ll have a much better chance of succeeding if they’re more prepared to be there and that’s what an early childhood development program can do.
I think that’s something this government should be looking at seriously as well.
Like I say, a lot of these things are not, don’t look at it as though we can’t afford it.
We can’t afford not to.
If you take a look at the kids that are dropping out, 50 percent of our population today that’s in the school age, they drop out.
You take that and say those kids could end up being on income support.
They could end up being a burden on the social system for no reason and no fault of their own.
Also, if you look at it that way, it’s an investment and I’m sure that if our minds were put together, we would be saving money in the long run if we offered these types of programs.
Another thing that the minister indicated in his opening comments was the increased contributions to District Education Authorities.
Let’s take a look at the main estimates and ask questions for that when we get to that area in the main estimates.
Another thing is daycare. Daycares are still being funded the same.
They’ve been saying they’ve been under funded for years.
Last year, there was a one time influx of funding for them and that was it.
Now it’s back to normal again.
The increased funding isn’t to increase the funding to the daycares; it’s more of the same funding to more daycares.
Again, these are all areas that we as an Assembly need to look seriously at as not just more of the same but making some changes and improvements to the system.
At this time, Mr. McLean is next.
Mr. McLean: Ma’na, Itsivautaq.
Mr. Tootoo pretty well summed it all up in his statement and I’m just not going to say everything he said because we’ve heard it.
Going back, the Government of Canada empowered or listened to the people of Nunavut and let them create Nunavut so they could make decisions on their own and go in their own direction and go.
It’s unfortunate that the Department of Education will not do that to the District Education Authorities in the Baffin Region.
For whatever reason I don’t know, other than the fact that when I was a long term District Education Authority member in Baker Lake and divisional member, my biggest frustration was dealing with the government that was too far away in Yellowknife.
And they wouldn’t listen to the concerns of the Baker Lake District Education Authority and also the Kivalliq Board of Education.
Today we’ve got Nunavut.
I’m not going to preach here today but I’m just saying you’ve got to listen to what the District Education Authorities want.
Don’t try to strip anything from them because don’t ever underestimate the grassroots power in the communities in Nunavut.
I think you as a minister understand the power in a community to get rid of a politician.
I don’t think the bureaucrats at the upper echelons understand the pressure that we as politicians are under to deliver to them.
That’s why they voted for us.
There’s no smoke and mirrors in our community.
They vote for us because we can do a job and part of our job is explaining to the government and as MLAs, what our constituents want.
And if a District Education Authority wants to have its own financial affairs then it should be given to them without any hesitation.
But that’s all I wanted to get that in to you.
Because what scares me as an MLA, if the Baffin DEAs do not get the resources and the financial authority to do their own thing, does that mean a year or two down the road that you’re going to strip the other DEAs in the Kivalliq and the Kitikmeot.
And if you do, it will be a major mistake for the Government of Nunavut, especially the Department of Education.
So, it’s sort of a little warning for you.
It’s not a threat; it’s just a little warning and a caution.
On the education system in Nunavut, I agree with my colleague Mr. Hunter Tootoo.
We don’t agree on a lot but this is one issue that we can agree on is that the resources I think, are not being put in the right place.
You’ve got teachers in the classroom from kindergarten to grade 6 that have a student teacher, I call it a student teacher, pupil teacher ratio and it’s very high; it’s anywhere from 25 to 30 to 1.
And when these kids get into grades 6, 7, 8, 9 and start being tested that’s when the problem arise.
It’s too late.
And he talked about a 50% drop out rate; I’m looking at an 85% drop out rate in my community.
I don’t know what it is in yours but it’s probably similar.
Now, I think we should be looking putting the resources where they belong at first.
And I challenge anybody in this House, I challenge you, and I’m probably right in 80% of the cases.
You go into the high schools, any high school in Nunavut, and the pupil teacher ratio is probably 8 or 9 or 10 to 1.
And kids only have to go to school in the latter grades, in 10, 11, 12, maybe three periods a week, or 10 periods a week or 12 periods a week and I go back to the old days, and I’m sure there is other reasons why kids don’t go to school all day any more.
They’re probably a lot smarter than we are.
Or there are scheduling reasons or things like that.
But I’m totally dumbfounded that I see kids drifting around, that word again, our community that should be in school.
I was talking to an individual that is progressing very well in our community; he is the CEDO, Philip Tagoona.
He went to school in Baker Lake to grade 9.
He went to the Kivalliq Hall, 10, 11, 12 and now he’s the local CEDO and he’s probably one of the best ones in Nunavut.
But I asked him, I said Phillip, when you were going to school in Rankin Inlet, you had subs.
He said Glenn if you had more than two subs a day we were made to go to study hall.
I didn’t like to go to school.
I have to admit, when I was in 10, 11, 12 I didn’t want to go to school because I thought I was smarter than everybody else and school was just for geeks and things like that.
But I’m glad that I had to go to school, now that I look back at it, I’m glad I got the basic education that I got.
And that’s what we’re not delivering here.
We’re not delivering a basic education to the students of Nunavut at this point.
And I’m trying to figure out why.
We’re putting the resources in.
We’re building schools.
We’re hiring teachers. We’re, you know, and I’m not blaming you Peter, I’m not blaming you or I’m not blaming James Arvaluk.
I’m not blaming anybody here.
But I think we have to assume educating our kids is a parental responsibility.
But there is only so much a parent can do to a certain point.
Then they turn into teenagers.
I don’t know if I could help my child with grade 10 math or grade 10 science, or grade 11 math.
I don’t know. I haven’t got to that level yet.
I’m having a difficult time helping my daughter with grade 8 math.
So, you know, if I’m having a hard time, I think I can speak for parents out in Nunavut.
How do we know how to help them?
And I know we can’t make teachers work 18 hours a day.
But when I walk to my high school, I see a block there and I think we’ve got to address that.
And I don’t want to be blunt and say in the House, where our kids are going.
The results show it.
I don’t think the language is the barrier.
And I’ll argue that point blank with anybody.
People in Europe speak six different languages and have six different university degrees.
I think people that are bilingual are smarter.
I’m unilingual.
So, I’m not trying to offend anybody here.
So, what I’m saying here is I think we’ve got to have a look at what we’ve got and try to improve on it.
I know when kids hit 15 and 16 years old, they’re starting to miss school.
Are they missing school because they’re sitting in a class and they don’t understand what they’re doing?
If they are, let’s look at it.
Like Mr. Tootoo said, there are opportunities that are starting to arrive in our communities, in all of them Peter.
You’ve got a tremendous potential in your community, so does Jobie, so does Donald and around the House with the mining industry.
I’ve been batting my head against the wall for three years trying to get some courses because there’s a potential for the first gold mine in Nunavut to open up within the next two years and I don’t have anybody trained to work there.
And who they’re going to point their finger at is me as the MLA.
They’re going to say, Glenn, you knew this was coming three or four years ago, I said it in the House for the last three years and where are the people going to come from.
They’re going to come from the south and I’m going to get blamed for it.
I’m not trying to make excuses here but we’ve got to start addressing this stuff.
Like I say, I’m not blaming you; I’m saying we’ve got to take a better look at the approach.
Yes, I know high school is new, I was one of the ones that pushed for high school in Baker Lake and my friends there that are having kids dropping out of school now are saying Glenn we made a mistake.
We should have kept Kivalliq Hall.
They got 10, 11, 12, and I’m second guessing myself now.
Because I was one of the big pushers on the Kivalliq Board of Education to say that I wanted 11 and 12 in Baker Lake.
That we would see more graduates.
We are seeing more graduates but we’re also seeing more drop outs.
I know high school is new but I just think we should look at the secondary end and see what we’re doing there and stop comparing us to a southern system.
And try to make it a bit more focussed in on our needs in our communities rather than globally.
Because I don’t think a lot of our kids are going to move south.
I don’t think they are.
So we have to develop a system in the community that they’re going to stay there whether it’s Kugluktuk in the mining industry; whether it’s the Baker Lake mining industry or Pangnirtung in the tourism industry.
But let’s try to get them the basic skill level that they can come out of those schools and join the work force.
Sure there are going to be exceptions to the rules that are going to go on to university and become I don’t know, I was going to say lawyers but we’re doing that here.
But, what I’m finding and every time I go to a graduation ceremony in Baker Lake, I tell the kids and I’m very honest about it, we need nurses, we need teachers, and we need heavy equipment operators.
There’s a need in Nunavut and I’m sure it’s the will of this government to employ as many Inuit as we can.
And half the population is under 25 or 20, I’m not sure of the stat today.
So we’ve got to start focussing in on what we have and try to improve it.
I don’t think we have to spend that much more money on trying to get what we have at a better level.
We’re up to capacity now, I’m sure we have.
I think we’ve got enough people in the system that we can go to work.
The other point that I wanted to bring up was, we take the TEP program.
And it’s a good program.
I still believe in it, I still fundamentally believe in it.
But after the students come out of the TEP program, I don’t know yet, it’s just a statement.
I think we should be assisting these new teachers a bit more, a bit of follow up with their yearly plans.
Go in and give them assistance.
Team building in the schools with teachers.
Cross cultural building and things like that.
I still claim that a lot of older Inuit don’t into the high schools.
I see them in the elementary schools all the time because I go in, but I don’t see a lot of them in the high school because I think they’re still a little nervous of the high school system.
Those are just my comments and thank you for listening and like I say, Minister Kilabuk, I’m not blaming you for the woes of the education system that we have in Nunavut at this point.
I just, as a parent, like to, as a person who has a lot of constituents, want you to hear my comments.
My colleagues.
When we deal with the department, various departments, with the budget, they will all be important during Committee of the Whole.
Please attend the Committee of the Whole sessions so we can get great ideas because when the members do their general comments, you can hear great ideas come out and some great suggestions so we have to complete the budget session.
So please try and stay in the Chamber during the Committee of the Whole so that we can proceed.
I know we don’t have long for the budget session.
I will open the floor for questioning.
Mr. Chairman, it is not a question but a short comment that I would like to make as a result of my colleague from Baker Lake’s comments.
I would like to remind the department it wasn’t long ago when they were lobbying for the dissolution of the Divisional Boards of Education and trying to get support from the District Education Authorities throughout Nunavut they were telling them that as a result of that it would enable them to devolve more power and responsibility and authority to the DEAs.
And that was something the department was saying back then and I just wanted to remind them that was something that they said back then and there are members on DEAs I am sure in every community in Nunavut that will remember that they were told that by department officials in the past.
So that is a comment that I wanted to make under general comments.
Any more comments or questions?
If you want to respond to this, Mr. Kilabuk.
We have very important comments and we want to be able to speak strongly.
Just to clarify what was already discussed.
I know the DEAs need money in order to provide a good education in our communities.
We need funding to run these programs in Education and I want to understand these things with you.
We are not trying to take away authority from your communities. In the chambers here someone mentioned that we are just keeping the District Education Authorities from taking control of things that they can manage.
The District Education Authorities know perfectly well the funding that they are given, to use it as an example, the person that handles the money.
That is not so and we are trying to support the communities by providing funding.
With the funding they are receiving, we actually encourage them to run the programs in education.
It is up to you how you want to run your programs in the communities as long as there is funding available for different projects in your communities, even with this some have had the ability to take over programs and have not done so to date.
I just want to make this perfectly clear.
We are in no way impeding them; they are impeding themselves in this area.
Any more comments?
Mr. Chairman, just a general question I have on something that the minister indicated in his opening comments.
He indicated that he is proposing 2.8 million dollars to meet the needs of forced growth in our schools.
I am wondering if that is the same 2.8 million that the Minister of Finance referred to in his budget address that would be allocated for new teaching positions.
I would just like to ask the minister, I’m seeing two different, I could read that two different ways here.
The Minister of Finance in his budget address said it’s for new teaching positions and in these opening comments he says it’s to meet forced growth needs in our schools.
It’s two different things.
So, I’d like maybe just to ask the minister to clarify exactly which one’s right.
Is it 2.8 million dollars for new teachers as the Minister of Finance had indicated in his budget address or is it teachers that are already on the ground right now and not only teachers?
Is it all going to the teachers or is it going to other things like utilities, school supplies and things like that as well.
So, I just want to know if he could clarify that for the record.
We are looking at different items and like I said before with the 2.8 million dollars in the budget, 84% will be used for new teachers, we’ve also identified it for materials in the schools.
That’s also in this budget.
I know I’ll get into more detail on that one, when we get into that section of the budget.
So then, am I correct in hearing that the minister’s saying that 2.8 million dollars isn’t all going to new teaching positions.
This whole 2.8 million dollars is not entirely for new teachers, but it is also for materials and support.
I mentioned earlier that 84% of the money from the 2.8 million dollars will be used for new teachers.
Mr. Tootoo: Mr. Chairman, I don’t know if I heard the minister correctly.
Is he saying this funding isn’t even, like 84% of it isn’t going towards any teachers, it’s going towards students to work in the classrooms through TEP, I heard TEP.
I was wondering if just maybe he could clarify this.
I want to make sure that I got it clear in my mind.
How many, I guess well, I’ll save that question.
I just want some clarification on where that 84% that he says is going to.
Is it going to new teachers or what; not a program but is it going to actual new bodies that are going to be in a classroom, teachers?
Yes, I was just saying that it was for new teachers, I may have not made it clear enough, it’s for upcoming teachers.
The 84% I mentioned is for the new teachers.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Kilabuk. Mr. Tootoo.
Mr. Tootoo: Mr. Chairman, that’s the first time I heard of a new teachers program.
Is it a new teachers program that he said or is it new teachers that are going to be going into the classrooms, or students?
I just want some clarification on this.
It will be for teachers.
Not a program.
Not the current program but it’ll be for teachers and support.
Anything else? Anybody else? Ms. Williams.
Teachers are very important and it’s essential to provide these services.
I don’t see anything in your opening comments about the wellness of the school environment.
Money provided for education has increased, why is it that there’s no additional money for school counsellors?
The money for school counsellors is extremely small.
I think that once we start going line by line, we’ll be able to identify how much money will be used for school counsellors.
And I do want to respond to your question but I think that the appropriate time to find out the amount would be once we start going through the main estimates.
But I have to tell you that it’s an extremely small amount in this year.
Ms. Williams (interpretation): Well, the minister said that the amount of money is extremely small, which is unfortunate to hear.
In Resolute Bay, there is something which translates to one point something, perhaps it’s for an hour of counselling students.
That’s extremely unfortunate.
I think the most important position in the school is the counsellors or the classroom assistants.
Some of the teachers are afraid to go to work because they are afraid of students.
I guess no one knows about this.
Chairperson (interpretation): As Mr. Kilabuk said it will be identified once we go line by line.
Maybe we’re talking about two different things.
I would like to remind the members here that if a teacher or a student, if they feel threatened, they can be expelled or the RCMP can be informed if there’s anything threatening in the school environment.
If a student poses a danger to the safety of the school, the RCMP will not hesitate, as safety of the students is a priority.
What I was talking about is the small amount of money that is identified here and I was referring to school counsellors.
And of course we know this amount is not going to be as much as we want and that’s an ongoing concern in our department.
Ms. Williams (interpretation): Very briefly, I feel that I have to make a supplementary comment.
What I’m trying to say is that the RCMP should not be involved in the school.
What I’m trying to say is that the school counsellors have to be properly trained, and that there should be more than one counsellor so that our children and the parents will be happier.
I don’t believe the RCMP should be involved.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you. Mr. Kilabuk
Hon. Peter Kilabuk (interpretation): Mr. Chairman.
If some of the teachers feel threatened or intimidated to go to school, it depends on the seriousness of the threat.
Like I said earlier, the schools would like to see more school counsellors but it is regrettable that there is going to be no new money to expand the numbers.
However, we will not stop pursuing this issue and I just wanted to remind the members about that.
Very briefly, on the first page, the schools are experiencing increasing enrolments each year and as a result the proposed 2.8 million dollars, the way I understand it is that these monies will only be going to the decentralized communities or are we also including Coral Harbour, or the other communities.
The minister was informed as well as myself that there are too few teachers in the communities, the communities had written requesting assistants.
Is the 2.8 million dollars going to be used in all the Nunavut communities or is it going to be just concentrated on the decentralized communities?
The new teachers, well it’s not going to be only used for the new teachers.
It is going to be used in our communities and we’ll be looking at the teacher-student ratio.
It’s not just for the decentralized communities it’s for all Nunavut schools.
I know that we’re not talking about capital projects but in the planning of the capital, I didn’t see anything written in your opening remarks.
Is there going to be any money set aside for the new schools or additions?
I do know that there’s not much set aside for new schools or additions to existing schools.
I was wondering if you will be reviewing this.
Even the small communities, if I use Coral Harbour as an example, the school is extremely overcrowded and there is no plan as to when they will be receiving a new school.
Is there going to be anything in the O&M so that we can keep up with the increasing number of students?
This is usually included in the capital and we already approved and concluded the capital in the fall.
Mr. Arvaluk (interpretation): The monies for the schools, for capital and non-capital items, it has been mentioned that we will be using the 20 year plan.
Will we be using that 20 year plan?
If I understood the member correctly it is in the 20 year plan.