EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
We have a huge financial responsibility not only to the Government of Nunavut for reporting but people have to keep in mind that we also have a responsibility to report to the Canada Revenue Agency.
The benefits that are given out through the Income Support Program are all, for the most part, reportable benefits to the Canada Revenue Agency.
While we do the bank reconciliations for the Department of Finance and we try to do the statistical analysis to provide good information for cabinet and for the members on exactly who is on income support, how many people, the ages, and all of the statistics that you see in other jurisdictions, we also have the responsibility to report to the Canada Revenue Agency and it’s quite a lengthy process.
The case management system has five modules in it. As the deputy minister and the minister alluded to yesterday, the first module is what we call a PDR module, the Personal Data Collection System and that is because we have to report to the Canada Revenue Agency.
We need to know that the money that is being given out is actually being quoted to the correct person because it affects your taxes at the end of the day.
All of the personal data that is collected through the program, your name, your birth date, your social insurance number, and the names of your children, we worked very closely with previous ATIPP coordinators to make sure that we were within our legal rights to collect that information as we were designing the system. So that’s the first module.
The second module is for the delivery of the Senior Citizen Supplementary Benefit program, which the minister alluded to yesterday.
We deliver benefits to approximately 700 seniors across Nunavut who receive the Old Age Pension program and the Guaranteed Income Supplement.
The Nunavut government provides $175 a month to recipients of those programs from the federal government.
We have a merged payment process that we use the case management system for. The Department of Finance gave approval for us to put that module into production because we do have a Memorandum of Understanding with the federal government for this merged payment process. It is done once a month.
All of the cheques or the benefits are tracked through the system. There is one cheque that’s cut to the federal government for the services that they provide to Nunavut.
So they actually provide the money on that cheque and then we pay the federal government back, but the tax reporting at the end of the year comes from my department through the information that’s in the case management system.
The next module that we are working very hard to get out and which has been in pilot since June at the Iqaluit office is for the assessment piece.
That is when an income support recipient comes to us and an assessment would be done rather than the labour-intensive paper process and the manual cheques, which we frequently have problems because of the manual cheque process.
The system will generate an electronic cheque after the assessment is completed.
The system is also being designed to have access to be able to direct deposit and make combined payments so that we can eventually pay the Nunavut Housing Corporation and the Power Corporation in one cheque instead of the thousands of cheques for small amounts of money.
It’s a cost-saving measure.
It also collects the statistics and will provide the reporting and the production of the T-5007, which is the tax information slip that goes to the Canada Revenue Agency, plus it will also provide the accountability to the Nunavut government for the bank reconciliation for the number of cheques we write. Currently, we write 80,000 manual cheques a year and they go to several different sources.
Some families could get up to five cheques depending on where they shop and the number of places that we write the cheques to, like the Power Corporation, and so on.
We also have a case management module that’s being worked on. That is, for lack of a better term, the career development side of income support. The information that we collect on that will be to try to steer or counsel people who are accessing income support programs to the career development side of the department and into training under labour market programs.
It will be a good point of reference to hopefully get people into the labour market.
The last piece of the system is a reporting piece and again, that will be used to provide the statistics and wrap up things for the tax system and other various types of reports that the government may ask for.
So that is the premise of the case management system.
We also have a database that is being rolled out across the territory right now because the case management system is a huge system full of complex rules. The Department of Finance must give their blessing before the system is rolled out because of the financial nature of the program.
We’re trying very hard to make sure that we meet all of those qualifications and rules that are in place as a government.
The small database that we are rolling out across the territory, I have staff coming in from the Kivalliq this week coming to take their training.
It’s a small personal database that, instead of handwriting all of the forms that we ask for, they will be able to actually do it on the computer. Our Department of CGS has worked very hard to help us get the networked communities to have this system.
The training starts on that on Monday and then it will go to our staff in the Kitikmeot and then the Baffin until the larger system is ready to roll out.
Thank you for that long-winded story.
Chairman: Ms. Teiman, you lost me a while ago, so I got lost.
The rule of thumb is maybe a little shorter so that people can understand and comprehend the answers and questions, by the way.
Mr. Elliott, do you still have questions?
I got everything, I was making notes, and it answers everything that I have been asking because it seems like we need something in place so that the income support workers can actually help people gain the skills.
The government talks about self-reliance and if they’re just writing cheques and people are just coming there with their hand and saying, “Get me my cheque. I don’t care.” Other members have mentioned that working at the college, people would come around every month with this little piece of paper saying, “Do you have jobs?”
And you sign it saying “No” and it just becomes a habit. It’s routine and they’re not getting help in getting a position, or getting a job, or getting into education.
You also mentioned yesterday in one of the answers the poverty working group. I know Mr. Ningark was asking questions in the House about the definition of poverty. To me, I don’t feel we have gotten a definition in terms of what the government feels poverty is.
The obvious answer is, “Look it up in the dictionary,” and there you go, that is what poverty is.
Again, I think poverty in Nunavut is a lot different, it’s almost like homelessness.
For example, Arctic Bay doesn’t have a food bank and Arctic Bay doesn’t have a soup kitchen, but what ends up happening is that the wage earners and people who have employment are the ones who are the soup kitchens and the food banks. They’re providing food for family, relatives, friends, and that’s how we work. That’s how the community works.
It’s kind of hard to define poverty because you just never know when you’re not going to have your job or when you don’t get elected back, so you’re in a position where you’re going to need help as well.
What departments consist of the poverty working group?
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you. (interpretation ends) Mr. Elliott wants to know where to go next time, so that’s the question… no, I’m kidding.
The poverty working group is not really formalized as of yet. We’ve had informal meetings as a group of concerned employees.
It’s being led by our colleagues in the Department of Economic Development. So far, at our working group meetings, we’ve had representation from ED&T, Income Support; we’ve had people from Executive and Intergovernmental Affairs, Department of Health and Social Services, Housing.
It’s been several informal meetings and the process, I think, will be formalized after April 1 and the budget hopefully will be passed.
The next one I have is Mr. Ningeongan.
I think it would be better if I asked this question to the minister.
(interpretation ends) Your business plan indicates that the Social Assistance Act and its associated regulations will be reviewed in partnership with the Department of Justice.
What aspects of the program will be the focus of this review?
Hon. Louis Tapardjuk (interpretation): We are going to keep reviewing this to see where we can make amendments to the Social Assistance Act.
This review would include an examination of its operations and as you indicated, we’re going to be setting up a committee. Ministers will also be part of this committee during the review.
The policies are also going to be reviewed because they were grandfathered from the Northwest Territories government and we want to tailor them for Nunavut. We will review the policies and regulations and make them relevant to Nunavut.
We’re looking at how we can make improvements so that it’s more geared towards Nunavut, Mr. Chairman.
I think we all know that we have to make changes to income support, especially when there are few jobs for the able-bodied.
They would be more than willing to work, but they have no alternative other than to receive social assistance. Approximately how many years do you think that we will be able to get the able-bodied people out in the labour force?
Chairman (interpretation): I’m sorry, Mr. Ningeongan, but we can’t hear the interpreters, so we will have that checked.
Sorry for the inconvenience, but if you can repeat your question, Mr. Ningeongan.
Mr. Ningeongan (interpretation): As I already stated, I think this issue is quite clear and I want to ask in regard to income support recipients. It seems like they’re sworn to oath when signing documents and thus, liable to prosecution. I suspect that many could be liable.
I’m sure a great many income support recipients will have to keep on signing sworn statements. A lot of the younger recipients are able bodied but are faced with few jobs.
I wonder if you have observed what these changes will mean when they come into effect and how long those changes will be in effect.
Hon. Louis Tapardjuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the member for that question.
There are quite a lot of young people in particular who are on the welfare system. At times, we hear about parents whose child turns 18 and urge that child to go apply for social assistance.
The Department of Education has an agreement where they set up training programs.
For example, there’s heavy equipment operator training available in Baker Lake. We also will be seeing more in the Mary River project with a drilling training program.
The Department of Education, in collaboration with the Arctic College, will be setting up a trade school in Rankin Inlet for training carpenters, plumbers, and electricians.
Once we have the trade school open, there are going to be people applying who are currently on income support. We are doing all we can. We are going to help social income recipients when they are just getting into the initial stages of their career while they are trying to get into the labour market, Mr. Chairman.
This is not a question; it’s more for the minister’s information.
With respect to the caribou issue in Coral Harbour, when I was the mayor, we had people on social assistance, including youth. When they were employed at the caribou meat plant, their lives were changed a great deal and boosted their self-confidence.
This is a worthwhile benefit and I want to see all of us work together to bring about this kind of future.
When a young person is no longer facing uncertainty in seeking income assistance and is given a job instead, it improves their lives greatly. I believe that’s the vision we have. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Ningeongan. That is an excellent point and it has been noted.
Next on my list is Mr. Ningark. You may proceed.
My question later on is to do with the process for appeals.
In the meantime, what I want to say for my community is that in the area of productive choice or choices, if you will, my understanding also tells me that if a student is going to school, as long as the student is not making any money and is over 18 years or whatever and they’re receiving income support, that’s one aspect of productive choice.
The other one I gathered from the minister is that if you’re settling into a new job, you’re not able to collect any type of money moving into a community, but your prospect is that you will eventually get a job, then income support is there to support you for the time being.
I think that in Nunavut, especially in the small communities, such as Repulse Bay and Kugaaruk, the productive choices are few, in between, and far between, so it’s really hard to find.
We don’t have the luxury of students going to school and then finding an evening job either in your local enterprise, or local hamlet, or whatever there is in the community. In the south, you would have a better chance of that.
I have noticed that when I travel to Yellowknife… I travel through Yellowknife every time I come here. I know there are young people working in the evenings or on the weekend. They’re still young enough to be students.
I know they’re going to school. We don’t have that luxury in a small community.
I have respect for the frontline workers. It’s a thankless job. We all know that.
Mr. Chairman, my question is: how many clients have appealed because they’re not given income support from the income support office?
It can be overwhelming for the first time going to the income support office trying to get money and not being sure what is going to happen. It can really be overwhelming. I even find it today overwhelming when I go to Minister Louis Tapardjuk’s office.
Who is responding?
Minister Tapardjuk, do you want to respond to the question?
With respect to this appeal process, we appointed new members to the board just this past winter. The chairperson for this appeal board is Jack Anawak and the board is responsible for all of Nunavut.
From what I’m aware of, there have been very few cases of people going through the appeals process. I will have Ms. Teiman identify the numbers that went through the appeals process last year if that’s okay with you.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Tapardjuk. (interpretation ends) Ms. Teiman, the question is: how many have appealed?
I’m not able to answer with the exact numbers because we have several levels of appeals.
Clients are supposed to be advised of their appeal rights if they are denied assistance. I would hope that our income support workers are doing that and that their supervisors are providing some level of oversight to ensure that is happening.
The first level of appeal would go to the regional director in the region that the client lives, so appeals don’t necessarily come to the highest level of the appeal board.
This past year, we’ve had two major appeals that have come into the actual board. We have a very strong board. We have been lucky in the past of having very strong people on the appeal boards.
But in the communities, I would have to solicit some numbers from the three regional offices to get back to the member on the exact numbers. They don’t necessarily come to my office.
I again want to find out the definition of productive choice. We know that it is attending training, actively looking for a job, settling into a new job. What are the other productive choices that the department can share with the committee?
“Productive choices” was a term that we brought over with our program from the Northwest Territories government and we have kept that program until we change it here in Nunavut.
You’re right; most of the productive choices are focused on the wage economy, so if someone goes out and gets a job, if someone is an active participant in training. We also consider productive choices in various wellness activities.
So if someone has addictions or mental health issues, if they’re seeking counselling, working through their nursing station, those things are considered productive choices. Parenting of very young children is considered a productive choice.
We ask if a hunter is going to be called a hunter. We work with the local HTO and allow them to determine whether somebody is called a hunter.
So those are some of the productive choices that we have in the program.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Ms. Teiman. (interpretation ends) The next one I have is Mr. Komoartok. (interpretation) You can now ask questions, Mr. Komoartok.
I would like to ask a question regarding a phone conversation I had in Pangnirtung. There was a couple with two small children and the couple was having a problem in their home where one of them called the RCMP.
After being arrested, this individual was given a restraining order and wasn’t allowed to see his wife or his children. He wasn’t even able to give them any money because he wasn’t allowed to have contact with them.
At that time, the spouse went to the income support office and was denied social assistance.
This individual couldn’t get money from the spouse because there was no contact allowed. We didn’t quite know how to deal with that situation.
Can you tell us what happens in such instances, Mr. Chairman?
Which of you would like to try and answer the question?
I would like to thank my colleague. I believe I saw a letter about this incident.
People who have to go through the court system are not really under our jurisdiction and I’m not exactly sure how the process works.
Maybe Sandy Teiman could explain what would happen in these cases and whether they would be eligible to receive income support. I don’t understand the question nor do I want to hazard a guess, so I think it would be better if she responds.
I’m not exactly sure how to respond to the member’s question at this time.
I would need more of the case specifics in order to make a comment that would be correct.
I would hate to make a comment that would be incorrect, but I would look into the situation if I could get more case specifics.
There are a lot of factors playing into this between the RCMP and Justice, and whatever, and I would hate to misspeak on this case.
So I would certainly entertain if the member would like to discuss the case specifics further. I can’t respond without further detail.
Chairman: This sounds like it’s a matter that has to be resolved through Justice, where there are family support workers who enforce orders for child support. So there are other departments involved by the sounds of it.
It’s obvious that there are quite a few factors in there.
There are some rules and regulations that have to be applied, but I think that those types of incidences are going to be occurring more frequently, not only in the community but with the forced growth in the communities.
One hopes that we don’t get to that situation with families and the support workers.
We would like to see those types of situations resolved, but unfortunately, there are cases where there are no resolutions and they can’t stay together.
I think we’re going to be seeing those types of instances more frequently in the future.
It is not fitting to see a spouse with children who has no money to spend and their partner isn’t willing to help. Sometimes they have no alternative but to go to the income support office. I think it would be best if we have some type of policy set up.
I don’t really want to get into personal details like names and so on, but I can share that information with him one on one.
For your information, we are currently reviewing a bill for child and family services. It is something we’re working on, along with other things.
The witnesses are in no position to fully answer the question at this time.
Do you have any further questions, Mr. Komoartok?
On my list, I have Mr. Arvaluk.
Under G-7… I apologize.
Maybe I could ask a question under Income Support. I think we’re focusing on money matters.
When we’re under Income Support, it’s on another line item.
If I were to ask, income support not only applies to money but you can be given traditional foods like caribou and fish, and so on.
Would someone like to respond to that?
We are only talking about financial assistance. Are you talking about other types of support, such as food banks or support for food? I would like him to clarify his question, Mr. Chairman.
Minister Tapardjuk, he was asking if they can provide food like seal and caribou meat.
Mr. Arvaluk, perhaps you can clarify your question.
Yes, I always talk about generating revenue inside the community or about inter-settlement trading.
For example, Igloolik has walrus that we would like and we have beluga in Pond Inlet that Igloolik would like to have, and there is caribou in Coral Harbour that we would like to have.
Inter-settlement trade in country food is increasing and we hope to see that continue.
Single parents or widows who don’t have hunters otherwise would become destitute and impoverished if not for social assistance.
Is it possible to include traditional foods as part of their social assistance under your department?
That’s a very excellent question.
Traditional foods aren’t only more delicious but they’re also more nutritious than store-bought food.
Would someone like to respond to that question?
No, Income Support does not deal with traditional foods, but if clients want to purchase traditional foods, they could use the monies that they receive from social services.
Those monies are used to buy foods and that can include the purchase of traditional foods, but we do not provide traditional foods per se. Mr. Chairman.
Under G-7, Contract Services, $654,000, I tried to look for it on page 13 under the Summary of Grants and Contributions.
I tried to look for it in there under Contract Services.
What line item would the $654,000 be?
Chairman (interpretation): Mr. Arvaluk, are you asking a question in regard to the business plan?
Are you asking where that is in the business plan?
Here is the readjustment that has been provided.
Hon. Louis Tapardjuk (interpretation): The person on my left talked in length about the Income Support Case Management System process in response to the questions asked by the member from Arctic Bay.
This line item is geared towards the Income Support Case Management System that will make it easier for our income support workers, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman (Mr. Schell): Thank you, Minister.
Still on page 13 of the Summary of Grants and Contributions, the Senior Supplementary Benefit, $1,382,000, is that for people, old-age pensioners, who are not on the retirement insurance? Like for example, the senior citizens who never worked in their lives are getting basically from the federal government an old-age pension and those who are retired who have worked have a supplementary retirement fund or whatever. Is that for seniors who don’t have a supplementary or their own private insurance?
Hon. Louis Tapardjuk: Yes, Ms. Teiman will respond to that, Mr. Chairman.
The Senior Citizens Supplementary Benefit is a program that the Nunavut government supplements to Nunavut seniors who qualify for the old-age pension programs, the Old Age Security and the Guaranteed Income Supplement.
So if someone applies for those federal programs and they meet the eligibility criteria under the federal programs, the Nunavut government supplements the $175 a month.
My last question is on summary 16, I think… no, 13.
My last question, Mr. Chairman, is I guess it is financial accounting, but if we go to G-8 after, we are going to notice the Adult Learning and Post Secondary Services and you’ve got Social Services grants and contributions… excuse me, Mr. Chairman, I’m totally wrong… Career and Early Childhood Services and you’ve got Social Services in there. Why is not under the Income Support page?
Hon. Louis Tapardjuk (interpretation): Ms. Teiman will respond to that question, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman (Mr. Okalik)(interpretation): Ms. Teiman, if you can try and respond.