EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
I feel that I think we should be moving ahead towards working a little more closely with the communities like Arviat that have some experience in mining, mining work, who have had some work experience with the former Colleton Lake Gold mine, and it probably requires some refreshment courses and stuff like that.
I think we probably would be in better position to activate something sooner than later, because you know waiting for 2005/2006 fiscal year for the government to move and establish in 2007/2008 some training centre in Nunavut.
That probably would be a bit late because the mining companies do start some time before that and the positions required for those mines probably would already be filled by someone from outside of the Kivalliq region.
It would be very embarrassing for this government not to prepare ahead of time for those possible positions in that I think it wouldn’t hurt that we don’t have to guarantee jobs for those trainees that are trained for something because there are always some jobs around the world.
If they are ticketed miners or workers in the industrial areas like mining, I don’t think we need to guarantee them a job prior to the training and stuff like that.
When I got mine is that it wouldn’t hurt to approach the community if it was work with Education or Nunavut Arctic College to identify a place to open for correspondence training or getting line up or positioning onto some training, that people need at a later time, we don’t have to have big or expensive facility to get these people to actually get physical experience in doing something, such as maybe plumbing, electrical, being an electrician or being a plumber or some other positions required very, very soon.
I would like to ask again the minister that if community has an idea of approaching of such way of doing things, on their own, by maybe they have an asset in the community that could be converted to some training centre, or community-owned training centre, don’t have to be Nunavut-wide, if the minister would do that?
We agree with the suggestion made by the member.
I think that the member is really being proactive.
We very strongly concur.
In the Kivalliq, in particular, we had put in a proposal under the Aboriginal Employment Skills Program, the feds for $1.4 million to begin some of the base training projects that have come forward.
We haven’t been successful with that yet.
There are other opportunities under the Labour Market Development Agreement that we have talked about, plus under the IIBA, under the Land Claim, they get the money that goes forward there has to be an Inuit Impact Benefits Agreement signed where we should actually fund it.
In the meantime if a community has infrastructure, an idea about accessing a training program that they would like to put in place, whether it be heavy equipment, whether it be pre-employment trades, and so on, then College would be very interested in moving forward with that community.
Chairman: Go ahead, Mr. Alagalak.
I really wanted to bring this forward.
For that I don’t have anything else and I would like to thank the minister.
I just wanted to follow up on, first of all, the comment that my colleague; the answer that the minister gave my colleague on the Aboriginal Employment Skills Program.
I believe Mr. Rigby in your department worked on a very large proposal.
He submitted to your federal funding partner, it was like $20-something million.
What is the status on the proposal?
That was the project proposal that Mr. Rigby and his team were been working on.
I met with the member in March or April of last year in Cambridge Bay, to talk about the Pre-employment Mines Training that goes along with the Adult Learning Strategy.
The feds said that is probably the best proposal that they have seen and that is word that we have had back.
We haven’t had confirmation yet from the feds on actually the uptake on the program itself or the monetary resources coming forward.
We would hope to have that very soon.
That is the information that we have had from the federal government.
The Kitikmeot Inuit Association was working on a similar proposal and had discussions with officials in Ottawa.
They also said the same thing about the KIA proposal that is the best one that they have ever seen, so maybe that is the standard line that they give to all applicants before they run out of money because I believe that they have allocated all the funding across Canada.
So I am not too sure if we are going to see any up here in Nunavut.
I wanted to ask a couple of questions on the FANS program.
In your Business Plan on page G-21, you talk about a priority for 2005/06 is to seek partners through ongoing discussions and specific sector initiatives to enhance FANS suitability for students pursuing high needs occupations.
I’m wondering, Mr. Chairman, if the Minister could clarify what that two line bullet means.
That means when you’re looking at a student in a placement, part of the funding resources would come from FANS and the other part might come from Peterson Electronics.
Peterson Electronics is based in Cambridge Bay, and they’re trying to hire an apprentice, an electrical plumber and they would be interested in taking this electrician plumber and putting him to work.
So, they would come on board and say look, we’ll support 2/3rds of this guys salary and you supply him with FANS and when he’s finished he’ll come work for us.
So, that’s the idea of that two line bullet.
Have you had any preliminary discussions or feedback from some potential partners anywhere in Nunavut that this would make sense for us up here in Nunavut.
There actually has been quite a bit of interest not only from the private sector but also from some of the hamlets, for example, and housing associations where they actually have employment.
I noticed there in your line item there that there is no increase in funding for 2005/2006.
I also noted elsewhere in other discussions that we’re getting more graduates out of high schools and presumably they would be going onto post-secondary education whether it’s Arctic College or a university down south.
One would think that we need to come up with some more funding for the students through the FANS.
So, I’m wondering if the Minister could explain why there is no increase in FANS funding for the students in 2005/2006?
A line item in the FANS program, you look at what the historic expenditures are and then you try to allocate resources based on that.
If there was some type of sudden uptake in the program in FANS, then you try fund that internally within the department.
If the amount was above and beyond what the amount was budgeted for FANS and there was not an opportunity for an internal reallocation, then the Minister has the opportunity to come back to the house through a supplementary appropriation.
Based on the numbers that had been prepared at that time, when you’re doing the budget again, we’re months into this, the members have had a chance to see these budgets several times in the past several months in the Standing Committees, and so on, and that’s the amount we felt was suitable, however there may be changes to that.
Yes, that partially helps to answer it.
I know we’ve put a big focus on our young people and encourage them to stay in school and graduate from high school and go onto colleges and universities and tech schools and trade schools if we eventually do have one operational here in Nunavut.
So, it seems to me that we’re going to have increasing needs for that kind of funding.
I noted that going back to funding last year; we did increase it by $250,000 in response to demand.
I’m assuming the costs of education don’t go down.
Costs usually go up, costs of food, accommodations and other things.
They’re always on the increase if you read the media reports out there that are published by newspapers and education institutions.
So it would seem to me that we probably will have a need for additional funding.
Having said that, Mr. Chairman, I’m curious to know, after a university student for example, takes a four year program and then wants to pursue an MBA or a doctorate.
How does the Department of Education assist those students?
First of all, on the expenditures for the FANS program, I believe the amount that was in the budget, I am just looking at G-12, the actual expenditures for 2003/2004 for last year were $53,071,000, and the budget in the main estimates this year is $56,007,000.
So that’s an increase of a little over $200,000 almost $300,000.
So there has been accommodations for it based on the mains as well as the actual expenditures.
Again, the actual expenditures for last year were $5,300,000, and the budget this year is for $5,607,000.
The second part of the question, Mr. Chairman, on how the education is funded, the student who applies for financial assistance through the FANS program, it’s based on what the education requirement of the student.
It’s not an upper limit based on the program.
So in this case, if a person has finished a bachelor’s degree and wants to move forward to a master’s degree, then that funding allocation, under the FANS, is permissible.
When I was looking at this line item, the increase from 2003/2004 was $250,000.
So this year’s numbers is based on last year’s numbers after an increase from the previous fiscal year.
Can the minister have a breakdown of how many students are in the FANS program currently in the south and in the north, and then how many are in the Nunavut Arctic College?
A good example, and I will go through some of the application in numbers for the House.
During the fall term of 2002/2003, there were 499 applicants for FANS.
In the winter term, there were 316, for a total for following fall/winter of 2002/2003, there were 815 applications, 654 enrolments, 261 in the fall were Inuit, 236 in the winter for a total of 341 and 313.
In the fall of 2003/2004, again, over 600 applications, 628, and the fall of this year, based on the numbers that we have just now as of October 29, 2004, there are 585 applications for FANS, and 376 enrolments.
I don’t have the numbers for how many students right now are participating in the FANS program in the south and how many would be attending the College.
I appreciate those numbers.
It seems like there’s a good interest in the uptake from the program.
I had a student from Cambridge Bay, or a student that was taking a course in Cambridge Bay from another community contact me last month, or in January, with an interesting request for help.
She had brought her family to Cambridge Bay and couldn’t make ends meet, and requested money for help to access food through the Cambridge Bay Food Bank.
Of course, I contacted the Hamlet and the Wellness Centre people.
They informed me that people from out of town who are on the Arctic College programs are eligible to access food through the Food Bank, and in fact on Tuesdays and Thursdays, the hours are normally from 2 until 4 p.m., but they keep the Food Bank open until 4:30 so that students, when they are finished at 4:00, they come in and get some assistance through the Food Bank.
So I was quite surprised by that.
I thought that when you are approved by FANS, it usually accounts for all of your needs including your accommodation if you are an out of town student staying in one of the residence in Cambridge Bay.
So it seems to me that there might be a problem with some of the funding levels for a student, a spouse, and some of the family members.
I thought maybe the minister could comment on that, or the President.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Peterson. Could the president comment on that?
Mr. Clendenning: First of all, it’s the first time that I’ve heard that a number of students in Cambridge Bay have been taking advantage of the food bank to supplement their needs.
I’m not aware of why that’s happening or what brought that about but I would certainly be willing to look into it further if the member could give me some more specific information on the situation.
We have in our other regional campuses for example, in Rankin Inlet, our students are provided with meals in local restaurants.
Here in Iqaluit, we have a cafeteria service where we provide students in residence, plus their families, students have apartments where they can provide their own.
We do provide food boxes for students here in Iqaluit for those who are in need.
We keep them in hand.
I realize that’s probably not consistent in the territory, but I would be interested in hearing more about he situation in Cambridge Bay.
It’s the first I’ve heard of it.
Yes, this lady’s initial concerns was that she’s been denied assistance through the food banks and when I looked into it, the wellness center said no she’s not being denied, she just thought we weren’t open.
I contacted your officials at the Department of Education in Cambridge Bay and they provided me with all the information on the money that’s available through FANS.
I think what could have possibly happened is she just, like a lot of us, we don’t know how to budget very well, and when you’re a student, you really have to know how to budget.
It might be necessary for the college, the Department of Education to help some students to prepare them with some budgeting skills, because they’re taking programs that are between 2-4 year programs.
It’s very discouraging to a student if you can’t make ends meet.
Quite often, a student will drop out of an educational program just because they can’t feed their family or can’t make ends meet.
So, that’s something that we should be concerned about, the college and the Department of Education should possibly look into.
That’s more of a comment, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman: That is exactly a comment.
First of all, I would like to say that the Deputy Minister was here, but it seems like she’s not coming back, but I would like to thank Ms.Hine for appearing before us.
She’s been doing a lot of work.
I certainly would like her to be given full support in the Assembly.
(interpretation) My question is, I’d like to follow up with my colleague.
In Rankin Inlet, there are Arctic College students who go to the restaurant to eat.
I wanted them to order good meals, but they were only allowed sandwiches.
I wonder if this is true.
And when I was in Baker Lake, I was told by an Arctic College student who returned home because he or she said that they were tired of being hungry.
So, I talked to the parents and the parents told me that that individual was very skinny when he returned.
Arctic College should be able to provide good food because if you ever come to our place, you would be tired of being at my place because we were giving you too much food.
They shouldn’t even be fed just sandwiches here in the Inuit land.
They’re not going to be able to want to go to school with that little bit of food.
They should be provided with better food.
If you talk to elders, that’s not the way elders feed them and that’s not the way it should be done by Arctic College.
(Interpretation ends) Mr. Chairman. That’s my opening comment, but I want to expand a bit more with the minister.
The minister has appeared to take any more interest in the Arctic College, even without the authorized changed mandate from the legislation-wide, and I really believe that Arctic College has been set up as an independent crown corporation and set up to manage and what not.
How does the minister justify his role now to appear to have more hands-on involvement with Arctic College when, by legislation, he’s not allowed to do so?
Chairman: Please respond, Mr. Minister.
I think that the member is overplaying the reach of the power of the legislation and the attributes of that legislation.
Indeed, what the legislation allows, not only under the Education Act, but the Public Colleges Act, is the opportunity for the minister to influence, in this case, the direction of the college, based on, for example, the curriculum, the resources, the programs and so on.
Secondly, looking at the issue around finance, where the colleges get in trouble with finance, is they come back to the Minister of Education and say, we need help.
The day-to-day running of the college is left to the senior managers of the college.
The month-to-month and the direction of the college is under the auspices of the Board of Governors of the college, and again, I thank the member for supporting us in bringing more strength to that Board of Governors.
And then, thirdly, the role of the minister is to try to coordinate those different levels into one; not to micromanage the organization and the rolling and the running of the college, but to macro-manage, under the auspices of the enabling legislation that is present.
I am fully quite supportive in trying to have a more effective relationship, not so much to micromanage, but I don’t know how the minister was given a mandate to commission a report.
Was that done through the Crown Agency Council, the direction and what not?
The reason I am saying that is, you know I am not 100 percent sure of all of these other legislations really authorize the minister to do what he needs to do.
What I am trying to say is this: I am not 100 percent sure that they are sufficient.
I really believe we may have to look at the Act and Nunavut Arctic College in bringing a more direct reporting relationship because I don’t think I am the only one worried about the ability of the Arctic College directors, the Board of Governors to really involve efficient running of the whole institution.
I am not even 100 percent sure whether we are taking advantage of the funding opportunity that the federal government announces yearly through the budget process or whatever.
Do you have that ability to access third party funding ability within the Arctic College?
If not, what would you need to do to make sure, you know Nunavut is not left out of some of the federal programs that the Federal Industry Minister from time to time and Labour Minister announced to ensure that they bring in new majors to bring in, new skills needed in the whole field of economic sectors of our country including Nunavut.
So could both of you respond to that?
Chairman: Which one wants to go first?
Under the Public Colleges Act of the Government of Nunavut, the minister has the opportunity and the ability under that legislation to initiate any given number of reviews, and that’s what we have done under the Act.
I thank the member, again, for acquiescing and being so supportive of myself as the minister to be able to fundamentally look at the logistic, the administrative, and the financial aspects of Nunavut Arctic College, and supporting me in doing that review.
So I appreciate him in that regard.
The second point of his question was dealing with the issue of third party leveraging and funding and the member again is correct.
The College has the opportunity and the right under the legislation to be able to access third party funding in regards to looking at programs and services.
A good example of that third party funding would be the different programs that we’ve run for organizations and so on.
They could be sponsored programs for example from Kakivak Association, which funds a lot of programs in this region as an example.
So the answer to the members question is yes.
Mr. Curley: I assume Minister, yes they have the ability and expertise and hands on people involved in seeking third party funding ability.
I wasn’t sure exactly what he was saying yes to.
My question is further, in view of the fact that we have legislation gives the minister to establish various types of public institutions or colleges of various kinds in Nunavut, why does he think that the Arctic College should be attempting for all that matter or involved in looking at setting up a trades schools, when we could probably be looking at more independent trades colleges or trades vocational institutions created through that legislation.
Would that not be possible or maybe perhaps more effective?
Hon. Ed Picco: I think the member has opened up what the thematic process of the debate may be that being what the theme is.
In this case, coming out of the Arviat caucus where the member is familiar with, there was a concern raised by the members that it’s not acceptable to have our students having to go to Alberta for trades training.
To go to Fort Smith.
To go to Ontario.
I think members realize that as 2005 evolves and the College moves forward and Nunavummiut move forward, we want to be able to have people on the ground in Nunavut who can actually do the positions and take those jobs that become available not just for now but in the future.
To do that, you need a facility that would be dedicated to pre-vocational training, whether that is electrical, plumbing, carpentry, or IT.
I think that’s the direction that we’re moving in.
So, by going forward with the study with the request we talked about earlier on the adult learning strategy of the predetermined positions, then we can see how that grows itself out.
Right now I’m not in a position to say should it be a stand alone facility.
Should I deliver carpentry programs in Pangnirtung?
Maybe have heavy equipment in Rankin Inlet or air brakes in Hall Beach.
It will depend on what and how the members of this House and during this term feel when we look at it.
Again, we look at not only the financial aspects but the logistic and administrative aspects.
I hope that helps answer and clarify the member’s questions.
Do you have any more questions, Mr. Curley?
Mr. Curley: Yes, I’m fully supportive of seeing more independent trades or vocational facilities being established in Nunavut but I’m not sure in view of the problems that the Arctic College Board of Governors have and the management team that they are able to provide the best choices to Nunavut with respect to trade or vocational training requirements.
They have more than enough problems to think of.
What I’m suggesting is and I believe the Minister has a mandate through legislation to deal specifically with those opportunities for Nunavummiut and discuss them with the public.
They should not be given over to more independent and, which is very much more difficult to have accountability with the public even to the politicians.
That should be a more open, public process in my view.
Secondly, I would like to ask the question too.
Why should Arctic College be given a mandate to try and assess whether or not a Nunavut Folk School is needed.
I don’t think that’s their mandate.
I appear to see that somewhere, that in the Business Plan, that, but I really truly believe that these are the minister’s responsibilities.
So, why not the minister work directly with the public and provide a report to deal with the Nunavut Folk School?
First of all, the issue around the governance model with the college, that’s part of the work that were going to try and ascertain.
Should there be a separate institution for vocational training programs in Nunavut, when I say vocation, I’m thinking about the trades program like mining, and so on; that you actually have a college of trades and technology, which would be dealing with those issues.
Maybe the current model that we have with Nunavut Arctic College would deal with adult basic education programs, deal with some of those other programs that are not on the trades side.
So you actually have a separate training institution for that.
That’s something that may be proposed.
Second point Mr. Curley raised was on the issues on the focus group, Mr. Chairman, that issues is in the department of Education not in the College.
We’re actually looking at that in partnership with our good friend at the Department of Culture, Language, Elders and Youth, and Minister Tapardjuk.
It’s something that Minister Tapardjuk and myself well have had a lot of conversations on since March and April of this year and has been reinforced by the Caucus coming out of the Arviat retreat.
We would hope to be in a position some time in the next several weeks to move forward on the next phase of that.
So that’s not under the college auspices.
It may be mentioned but it certainly under the Department of Education in consultation with the Department of Culture, Language, Elders and Youth.