EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
We have made the case about how large our territory is and how difficult it is for court circuits, lawyers, and judges to get around and provide legal services in all communities in criminal, civil and poverty areas as well.
There is an increase in demand.
We are working very closely with our folks at the LSB to ensure that, where possible, we can provide it with additional funds.
Dealing with that, can you tell the House how many lawyers are from outside Nunavut?
Hon. Keith Peterson: I heard lawyers, or is it Legal Services Board members?
I don’t have the breakdown of lawyers, but I would venture a guess that most of the lawyers that they have are from outside of Nunavut.
Some have lived in Nunavut for quite a long time, five to ten years, and have made Nunavut their home.
Hearing that, do you know what the procedure is where the Legal Services Board is paying for all the travel from where the lawyer is coming from to where the court is happening?
Would you have that level of information?
I can’t offer a definitive answer, but typically the Legal Services Board would pay most, if not all, the cost. We will have to get clarification on that and report back to Mr. Akoak.
We look forward to that information. I think that it is very important in times where we are supposed to be trying to save money.
Maybe we could look at how we can do that.
My next question is: can you indicate if your office anticipates any increases in funding for the Legal Services Board within the next five years?
I can anticipate Legal Services asking for additional funds. I can’t say today whether those funds are approved from the government or whether the Government of Canada provides additional funds.
That would be up to the future government to determine.
In its draft 2017-2020 business plan your department indicates that one of its priorities for the 2017-18 fiscal year is to “Develop a new 3 - 5 year work plan for legal aid services in Nunavut.”
Will you commit to making this work plan available to the public once it has been completed?
Hon Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Akoak seems intent on getting me to commit.
I can’t commit. We haven’t even started on that yet.
I would presume that a document of that nature would probably be something we would want to make public at some point in the future, but it’s too early for us to even say whether we can table it or not and make it public. We haven’t even started it.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you very much. (interpretation ends) We are on Justice. Directorate. On page E-4.
Total Operations and Maintenance, to be Voted. $17,433,000.
Onto page E-5. Justice.
Law Enforcement. Total Operations and Maintenance, to be Voted.
Mr. Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In relation to the documents in front of us, let me firstly ask the officials about the review of the coroner’s report that was completed on November 10 of last year on the results of the coroner’s inquest on Felix Shappa Taqqaugaq of Igloolik.
I would like to ask if you have reviewed the recommendations contained in the report.
Yes, the Department of Justice and the RCMP did receive the coroner’s recommendations and are reviewing them.
We still haven’t completed that review, but they are under review.
Mr. Okalik: (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I would like to ask what the timeline is for the completion of this review and whether the minister can identify the target date for the implementation of recommendations submitted as part of the report.
I don’t have a target. I know we passed the December 2016 date, but we don’t have a target date.
All I can do is assure Mr. Okalik and the other MLAs that the RCMP and Justice are continuing the review.
Some of them are quite complex to review and conclude on, but I will commit that we will get this review done at some point.
Hopefully this spring possibly we will have it complete.
The plans as presented will be my focus as I feel the list of recommendations can be added to.
In reviewing the business plan on page 43, the top paragraph includes a middle sentence that states that the RCMP organized cultural awareness training for the detachment commanders.
“Training participants were privileged in learning about pre- contact and post-contact Inuit history, inter-generational trauma affecting Inuit and modern Inuit customs and values.”
I would like to ask if the training was provided only to the commanding officers. Will it include all RCMP officers who will be stationed in Nunavut in the future?
That training was only for the detachment commanders, but I understand that training materials will be used for other employees as well in the RCMP.
There was another recommendation where officials stated that all RCMP officers who have recently transferred to Nunavut should receive orientation training of Inuit history and culture.
Will this be implemented for new RCMP officers who are recently transferred to Nunavut?
I believe that’s part of the new shared directional statement under communications that the RCMP will provide that kind of orientation and look to ensure that their officers receive courses, workshops, Inuit societal values, and the Inuktitut language where possible.
Looking at the business plan on the same page, page 43, the second-last bullet states that the “‘V’ Division participated in the development of the Inuit Mental Health First Aid Canada Course.”
Will this program be implemented and used for all the RCMP officers’ training?
One of the recommendations calls for the RCMP to more actively recruit Inuit in such a way that it will not be misunderstood in the communities.
In their plans the RCMP will try to hire more Inuit.
When will the department be able to respond to this recommendation so that there will be Inuit representation in the police force in all communities?
That’s an ongoing initiative.
The RCMP knows that the wishes of the Government of Nunavut are to recruit more Inuit into the RCMP and to hire more Inuit into the RCMP.
Again that’s part of the shared directional plans, so we will keep stressing that. It has been that way for years.
Now under this new shared directional statement, we are setting indicators so that we can report back every year to find out what kind of progress we’re making.
I believe my officials meet with the RCMP on a very regular basis so we can get updates on the progress they’re making in those areas.
Looking at the RCMP reports, they provide training for past trauma.
Will that include the dog slaughters that were carried out by the police?
The RCMP is part of the Embrace Life Council, so that would be part of their work. It would include that.
I would also like to thank the father who agreed for me to ask questions in regard to the dog slaughter and who also lost his son at the police’s hands.
This is an outstanding issue, so I’ll be asking more questions in the spring session and I’ll leave it at that for now.
Chairman (interpretation): That was just a comment. Following my list of names, Mr. Enook.
I believe we are on page E-5. In regard to policing, I would like to have a full understanding.
In March 2016 during the Committee of the Whole’s consideration of the 2016-17 main estimates, you stated that you are “committed to exploring community-based programs and made-in-Nunavut alternatives to our current policing arrangement.”
Can you describe what specific alternative programs to policing you are currently exploring in our communities?
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank Mr. Enook for your question. I had the opportunity at the October federal-provincial-territorial justice ministers’ and public safety ministers’ meeting in Halifax to… .
We did talk about the First Nations Policing Program. I believe the Minister of Public Safety, Minister Goodale, said they’re reviewing that and they’re hopeful that by 2018-19 they will be able to retool that program and Nunavut could be able to access that.
That program does sunset in 2018.
It ends, so it will coincide with that.
Sorry, Mr. Chairman, that’s the end of my answer.
The reason I raised this is my question relates to what I believe the minister is well aware of since he has visited many communities.
Let me refer to a historical fact. Back when we were very young and newly moved into what are now our communities, non-Inuit or Qallunaat in particular, such as the authority figures of the RCMP, were intimidating even just to look at.
They were like the boogeyman because if any child was being disobedient, their parents would immediately say, “The white man will come and get you.”
These are historical facts and I am completely truthful in that statement.
That is how we were scolded, ensuring our obedience.
Today I know for a fact that the majority of RCMP officers are very dedicated and committed to their work. Nonetheless, a bad apple can spoil the barrel.
As an example, when certain members are in uniform, especially the Red Serge, they automatically assume an air of superiority towards others.
They become arrogant, at least in our communities, and some go as far as being overbearing in the communities.
I am being absolutely truthful.
This applies to anyone in a uniform because some people can’t handle authority.
I am not painting all RCMP officers with the same brush, but certain individuals certainly assume that air and we witness this first hand.
I am asking what meaningful awareness training you are planning to recommend. For example, our RCMP’s attitude should never be like that of the police actions in Toronto or Montreal because our communities are different.
Every community has its own method of dealing with issues.
I also know that one cannot casually break the law and I am not encouraging anyone to break any laws.
How can we correct this cultural situation so that the RCMP is more culturally sensitive and less intimidating in our communities?
I don’t believe it’s the RCMP’s intention to intimidate people.
I know a lot of RCMP officers get engaged in community activities.
They will coach minor hockey or other sporting activities, they attend hamlet council meetings on a monthly basis, and in the city here in Iqaluit they will update the community on their activities and answer all the questions.
We do encourage them to participate in community events and to get out and mingle with people.
We do encourage them to work with elders’ and youth groups in the communities.
I have talked to the chief superintendent and he has told me that that’s what they would like to continue doing.
I do read their activity reports when they send them to me. Every detachment sends in regular reports to what they’re doing. They’re quite busy.
They will put on the D.A.R.E program, drug awareness and resistance education, and other types of initiatives in the communities.
I don’t believe they’re trying to be intimidating, but it may come across like that. At the same time they’re in a very difficult and challenging job.
If something dangerous occurs, they’re the first ones on the frontlines to protect our citizens in our communities.
This is precisely why I mentioned the fact that we take pride in the work of the RCMP. Further, most are very personable and we notice the majority are very dedicated.
Whenever an emergency or dangerous situation arises, we know that they are indeed the frontline workers and we are grateful for their service.
What I was asking about was perhaps related to what Mr. Okalik stated.
In the smaller communities the RCMP operations are quite different in some ways from the larger centres.
This has to be noted and acknowledged, and you have stated that this has been noted.
I’m trying to ask exactly what has been noted and which changes have been made.
I know that this may be impossible to answer now.
I believe that the RCMP can be included further and your department’s 2017-18 business plan states that it will work towards enabling RCMP officers to converse in the Inuit language.
That may be the case, but what I am asking is the Nunavut government has an existing program geared towards Inuit language training for public servants who are non-Inuit.
They are provided that opportunity.
I wonder if our RCMP officers currently stationed in Nunavut who may express interest in taking the course can be accommodated within this program.
Again, under the shared directional statement that is a commitment that the RCMP have made, to improve communications.
Certainly in our meetings with the RCMP, we can have those discussions about how we can help their officers to participate in those kinds of language courses.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) To that my question, Minister Peterson, is: do the RCMP staff members have access to the language training programs that are offered by the Government of Nunavut?
I don’t believe they do at this time.
For example, Inuktitut language training programs are offered to Nunavut government staff.
What types of Inuktitut language training programs can they participate in, or could we also incorporate that into the agreement between the GN and the RCMP so that they are offered Inuktitut language training courses?
I don’t know what specific training they have, but as I said, that’s something we can discuss with them because it’s in the agreement.
The shared directional agreement is a two-year agreement.
Communications is one of the priority areas. They understand that their officers have to have some language skills so that they can communicate with some of the people who may approach them for help.
I can’t say definitively today what kind of language programs that they would be able to access or participate in.
Again, we can talk to the GN on their behalf if it’s something that they would like us to do.
I urge you, Minister Peterson, to revisit this subject.
Situations may have escalated from a simple interaction due to language miscommunication.
Sometimes what wouldn’t have escalated becomes a different situation because of the misunderstanding.
I would strongly urge you to revisit that, Minister Peterson.
Let me ask this supplementary question. In your business plan one of the priorities for the 2017-18 fiscal year is to “Support police efforts to implement youth based community policing initiatives.”
Can you elaborate on exactly what that means?
The type of training the RCMP did was they would send summer students for three weeks of training at the RCMP depot in Regina as part of the Aboriginal Pre-Cadet Training program. Then they would come back to Nunavut to whatever community and then be deployed to work with the RCMP in a detachment somewhere.
Chairman: Thank you. We are on page E-5.
Justice. Law Enforcement. Following the list of names, Ms. Angnakak.
I just have a few questions on this topic. Yes, it’s really true.
I want to ask my questions really based upon concerns I have heard out there.
One of them was about not being able to have a policeman in the community. You have to phone Iqaluit instead when there’s a situation that arises.
How many communities are facing that kind of situation where they can’t get somebody from the RCMP to actually come to a situation? They have to phone Iqaluit first.
From how I understand of the system that they have in place, all the calls have to come through the call centre here in Iqaluit, and then they will contact the officers in the communities.
Is there always somebody there to come to a situation once that call has been placed? How long do they have to wait? Are there circumstances where there is no RCMP?
Hon Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank Ms. Angnakak for the questions.
That was four questions. You said only a few.
It’s very difficult to say, Mr. Chairman.
That’s why it has to go through the call centre so that the people in the call centre who are taking the calls have a record and they can track and make sure that an officer is contacted. Depending on the community involved, the officers might be engaged at another call.
If they’re not engaged, then they can probably respond fairly quickly.
If they’re taking care of another call, depending on their priority sequence ranking, it could be another few minutes or it might take a bit longer.
Certainly while they’re busy responding to calls, the call centre would be available to make sure the call was taken and logged in and be responded to at some point and then they would follow up.
I don’t always really understand the priority and how that’s determined. I had a constituent tell me once that she made a phone call because there was somebody breaking into her house and she was alone.
She was a female.
She called the RCMP and they said, “We’re sorry. We can’t come. We’ve got other things.”
Even in situations like that, you would think that that would be pretty high up, but in the end her brother came, racing down with a baseball bat. She was safe, but that really scared her. She really felt that there wasn’t anybody there for her.
She was told, “Go and figure it out yourself.”
That’s why it’s good to have these kinds of conversations where we need to figure out how things work.
I guess involving guns and that would perhaps be one of the top priorities.
When somebody feels really threatened like that and she didn’t feel that she was listened to, what would somebody do in that situation if they wanted to make a complaint?
I had the opportunity one night to go on an RCMP ride-along here in this city. I have to say that it was pretty busy that night.
We were getting calls all the time and responding as quickly as we could.
There are different officers in different trucks, but they were very busy. Not being a trained RCMP officer, I had to trust that they knew.
There are different codes when they call in. There are codes for the different incidents that they have to respond to. We were responding fairly quickly, I thought, to all the incidents that occurred that night.
I have to say that it’s quite an eye-opener, Mr. Chairman.
If a person has a complaint about the RCMP, there is a civilian complaints process that you can call them up, write them, or email them with the details of the complaint and they will follow up and investigate.
Another area I would like to get a better understanding on is the issue of elder abuse.
It’s something that we have talked about quite frequently in the House. It’s something that we hear about.
I’m wondering how the police respond or how they deal with situations where perhaps a community knows that elder abuse is going on, but perhaps it hasn’t actually come forward in a formal way that this is going on.
What kind of interaction do they have with families when there is elder abuse going on?
It’s a good question. What I would recommend in those types of situations is rather than call the RCMP, contact or have your family members or other community members contact the community justice outreach worker or community justice specialist and file or talk to them about an emergency protection order or community intervention order under the Family Abuse Intervention Act.
Then that would kick-start a process where the Family Abuse Intervention Act via JP would be signing some orders where the RCMP could get involved and help the elder or other family members.
That leads me into my next question. On that shared directional statement it talks about a domestic violence coordinator that would be hired. Can you give us the status on the hiring for that position as of today?
I apologize. I don’t have that information with me today.
We are on page E-5. (interpretation ends) Law Enforcement.
Firstly quite a while ago I asked this question to the Minister of Education, but I would like clarification.
Baker Lake is one of the larger communities. My question is: how does the RCMP deal with bullying?
The minister stated earlier that they do a drug education program, D.A.R.E. However, how would the RCMP deal with bullying?
I thank Mr. Mikkungwak for the question. If the RCMP received a complaint from an individual who is being bullied or awareness of somebody being bullied, I believe the RCMP would respond.
I don’t know if they would necessarily arrest the person, but they may talk to the person. I say that because I know that’s what they do in Cambridge Bay. As part of their daily policing, they would look into the incident.
They would talk to people and see what happened. Usually it’s with younger people. They can talk to them and say that they shouldn’t be doing that.
Mr. Mikkungwak (interpretation): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. With that, I’m sure they can talk to anyone in any community. However, my question is: when we’re talking about the RCMP, how old do they have to be in order to be charged if bullying becomes an issue?
Can they be charged and how old do they have to be?
I thank Mr. Mikkungwak for the question. If they’re between 12 and 17 and if it’s a criminal offence, they could be charged under the Young Offenders Act.
Mr. Mikkungwak (interpretation): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. If they’re too young, they could be charged under the Act. With that, would the parents be notified right away if their child had been charged?
I thank Mr. Mikkungwak for the question. The parents would have to be present at the interview between the RCMP and the child, a child being 12 and up to 17.
That’s clearer now, so I’ll move on. The other day I asked this to the Minister of Family Services, but his response in part has become difficult in Baker Lake. As Minister of Justice and with the RCMP, if there was violence against a woman and with no women’s shelter in Baker Lake at this time, how would you deal with that?
A couple of weeks ago I was on a conference call with community justice outreach workers and justice specialists.
They had a conference in Cambridge Bay and a lady from Baker Lake asked that exact question because there is no shelter in Baker Lake.
I believe, under the Family Abuse Intervention Act, we could put people up at the local hotel for a short period of time.
Mr. Mikkungwak (interpretation): Yes, his response is clear, but when there are violent incidents after hotel staff have gone to bed and they don’t have access to a telephone, how can the victim be taken care of better by the RCMP?
My colleague, Mr. Enook, stated that some RCMP officers know how to exercise the powers that they have.
After employees have gone home from the hotel, how would they deal with it then?
Under the Family Abuse Intervention Act, an emergency protection order would be issued and the RCMP would be aware that they might be involved.
Depending on where they’re placed in the community, the RCMP would be aware and would obviously be keeping an eye on a volatile situation.
An emergency protection order is issued for, I think, up to 72 hours to hopefully try to help the people involved to actually avoid any type of violence, domestic violence or other types of violence.
With that being the case, as there is no shelter in Baker Lake, can the minister explain… ? If there is an emergency in Baker Lake, as one of the larger communities, it should be rectified.
Anywhere in Nunavut there are many communities with shelters. When there is a lack of shelters, for example, with his colleague, the Minister of Family Services or Community and Government Services, should he start planning to put such a facility in?
In Cambridge Bay we’ve had a crisis shelter for at least 35 years or maybe longer.
It’s unfortunate that we require shelters, but we do have the Family Abuse Intervention Act that can assist individuals who are in those situations. If there is no facility locally, we can help people in a hotel.
If it’s a really extreme situation, I believe under the Act, we can relocate people to another community for a period of time to diffuse the situation.
Obviously if there is no facility, your options are limited, but hopefully in most communities there would be shelters or safe homes of some sort; barring that, hotels and then relocation to another community.
Going to the next name on my list, Mr. Joanasie.
Mr. Joanasie: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’m going to base probably most of my questions, if not all of them, on the Department of Justice’s business plan.