EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
So, we have to be very aware that we have to work with the boards to work on issues identified by the Auditor General. Respecting the governance model of those agencies is the work we’re dealing with, to improve and streamline the concerns that are being raised by the Auditor General, and that’s ongoing.
It’s a solution that will not happen overnight.
I don’t have to write a letter for every single concern that is addressed to us on a regular basis.
We follow those up.
Each minister has a copy of the Auditor General’s report; they follow up, that’s their mandate.
So, we work together with those agencies in trying to come up with ways of addressing the reporting requirements, business plans, audit statements, and it’s broad.
Once that work is done, we’ll be able to start working aggressively on ways to improve it. But until that time, we have to work on addressing the Auditor General’s report, parallel to the CAC activity.
Mr. Speaker: Final supplementary, Mr. Tootoo.
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I think that we know there is an Arctic College board of governors, there’s no board for the housing corporation; the minister never informed me of anything that I didn’t know already.
But my question to her was, has the Crown Agency Council issued any formal directive to any of the Crown boards or agencies, and if so, will she provide those to this House.
Mr. Speaker: Hon. Leona Aglukkaq
Hon. Leona Aglukkaq: Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned earlier before, we have been working with the agencies on addressing issues and consolidating all that data.
We didn’t have to do a letter to do that, so there’s been no direction on any specific issue.
We have asked for information on the board membership, their department of human resources’ policy, their financial reporting requirements.
All of that has been consolidated, but that doesn’t have to be done with a formal letter from me, that has to be done on a regular basis by the secretary and the committee that work together to try and streamline and understand the mandate of those agencies.
So, I’m not going to say anything that does not exist.
We do work without having to write a letter every time.
We meet, we discuss, we provide directions to staff to follow up, but that doesn’t have to be a written mandate letter, if that’s what the member is implying.
Mr. Speaker: (interpretation): Thank you.
Question period is now over, going back to orders of the day.
Item number 10.
Items 14.
Tabled Document 093 – 2(2): Photographs of New Snow Fencing at Chesterfield Inlet
I wish to table a collection of photographs from Chesterfield Inlet.
These photographs reveal the need for a new snow fence in the community.
Tabling of documents. Mr. Barnabas.
Tabled Document 094 – 2(2): Photo of Sewage Lagoon
I would like to table a document on the pingo, that was a follow up to my Members’ statement.
A photo that I would like to table.
Tabled Document 095 – 2(2): Credit is Due to Nunavut Power
We all remember that today is Friday, I would like to table Page 13, I don’t know if it is funny there or not, but it is lucky 13, of the Workers’ Compensation Board, which indicate that there is someone out there that feels that credit is due to the Nunavut Power Corporation.
I would like to table that.
Tabled Document 52-2(2), Return to Oral Questions 84-2(2), Bill 8 – Appropriations Act – Operations and Maintenance 2005 – 2006
With Mr. Evygotailak in the Chair.
>>House recessed at 15:33 and resumed at 16:04
Chairman: I would like to call the committee meeting to order, in the committee of the whole, we have the following items to deal with, tabled document 52-2 and Bill 8, what is the wish of the committee.
Mr. Mapsalak: (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
A review of bill 8, and the main estimates for the Department of Education.
Chairman: Are we in agreement that we first deal with the Department of Education?
Minister Picco, do you have witnesses?
For the record, Minister.
Picco, please introduce yourself.
Hon. Ed Picco: Thank you, Mr. Chair, and good afternoon.
Mr. Chair with me today is the Deputy Minister of the department of Education, Ms. Pam Hine, and on my immediate right and my immediate left, we have Ms. Janice Mobbes, who’s with the department in the acting comptroller position.
Also in the gallery, we have the benevolent president of Nunavut Arctic College, Mr. Mac Clendenning.
Chairman: Ms. Hine, Ms. Mobbes, welcome, sorry if I pronounce your names wrong.
Can we go on to 2005/2006 main estimates, page G17.
Questions to page G 17.
Education branch summary, curriculum, and school services. Total operations and maintenance, $9,901,000.
Chairman: Thank you. G 19, Education, branch summary, school operations, any questions?
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you Mr. Chairman, I know that this is a section in the budget that the minister has been very much looking forward to. I just want to ask for the record, is this the area where the schools are funded through, this section of the budget?
Hon. Ed Picco: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, the member is correct.
Chairman: Thank you, Minister Picco, Mr. Tootoo.
I know that the minister had indicated that, in the past, it’s been stated publicly that they’re reviewing the funding formula for the schools.
In committee meetings, there were questions asked, I’m wondering if the minister could update us to where they are at in the review of the funding formula.
Hon. Ed Picco: Thank you Chairman.
As I’ve explained in the last few days, the Committee of the Whole gives you an opportunity to go into greater detail with explanations on the budget.
So, I appreciate the member asking me.
When I first became the Minister of Education, one of the biggest issues that all the members have raised, the issue around the ways that our schools are funded, and that formula was formulated way back in the early 1990’s.
It was brought forth from the Government of the Northwest Territories, and there has been some bastardization of that formula over the last several years.
Those types of changes meant that schools, and different areas of Nunavut, would have been funded a little differently using that same formula.
So, I asked the department in April of this year, that we’ll start looking at the current formula funding arrangement that was in place, and build a new formula.
The perception of the old formula was that, it was uneven, and I think we proved that.
The new formula starts off with the idea and understanding that there should be a floor or base in every community.
So, let’s take a community for example, if we look at your home community, Chairman, of Kugluktuk, whatever’s in the school in Kugluktuk right now remain.
And the principle of the new school funding formula is we build from that base, whatever we have right now remain, we don’t cut anything.
On the old funding formula, they might say for example that Kugluktuk was over staffed, based on whatever that amount was.
I’m suggesting to you in the new school funding formula, that base is where we are right now, whatever’s in your school stays there. Then, I look at what are the positions that should be base funded from the department in the new school funding formula.
As an example, the member made a good point a few days ago, by saying that school counsellor positions, in some areas we have school counsellor positions in other areas of Nunavut, they’re not included at the school level.
So, every school should have a counsellor, so that would be base funded in the new formula, every school would have a school counselor, depending on the size of that school.
For example if there were only 50 students in the school, maybe that would be the cut off, there wouldn’t be a counsellor, if there were a 100 students, then we would try to place a school counsellor and budget for that position.
That budget for that position would come from the Department of Education.
Then, we wanted to look at how many PY’s were in the school funding formula, and that is an area that the member talks a lot about is, trying to get the principals out of that formula, because right now, principals, although the principals are not teaching, they’re considered in the old formula to be part of that teaching equation.
So, I’ve been looking at how to change that formula too.
As the members know, the cost of doing all these changes are millions and millions of dollars, so I can’t implement the total changes because I don’t have that funding available this year.
What I’m trying to do is, if we look at it as a quarter, I do a quarter now, next year I do another quarter, that’s 50 percent, so the next four years, you’ll be to the point, with the acquiescence and the support of this House with the budget, that we’d actually have a new school funding formula and build on it.
That’s the process that we’ve been bringing forward under the status of the new formula.
We started to begin the implementation with the money that I had available already, that the members is aware of, implementing that formula, changing some the structures, for example in the Kivalliq, all the custodial workers used to be employees of the DEA, and that was uneven, the janitor custodian in Iqaluit would be a union employee and would received an x number of dollars, the person doing the same job in Repulse Bay was not, and was probably getting half the wage, for doing the same job.
Was that fair?
So, what we’ve tried to do is actually make those positions now Government of Nunavut employees, they fall under the Nunavut Employee’s Union and the Nunavut Employees’ Union is happy about it, and we move forward and bring more stability to those positions.
That is some of the things we’ve been moving forward, as well as with classroom support, and student support.
Mr. Speaker, what that means is, for example in this new budget, we’ll be looking at over 40 new special needs or support assistant positions through out Nunavut being hired.
Over 40.
We’re looking at over 14.5, 15 new custodial positions, which will be new hires within the frame work, because based on the size of the school maybe you need two custodial workers, not one.
We’re looking at new language specialist positions.
In total, we’re looking at over 80 new positions being hired right from this budget, if approved, and concentrating on the special needs and language side of things.
We’re looking over a dozen new hires of teachers in this new formula.
At the same time, support assistants’ hires will actually be accentuated through the DEA funding that we’ll also be doing.
That’s why I was saying on this new school funding formula, phase one, phase two, there’s a lot of good news for our schools.
Chairman: Thank you, minister, Mr. Tootoo.
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you Chairman, I just want to let the minister know, in areas like this, I’d be more than happy to support his effort in getting extra services and not into the class rooms.
He had indicated that there’s going to be 40 support workers, 15 custodial and 80 new positions in there, does that include the dozen teachers that he was talking about?
I’m wondering if I could get a breakdown, and I think it’s around 150 new PY’s for this division.
If you look at their business plan on G-34, it jumps from 740.4 to 899.2, that’s why I want to get a new breakdown of what these new positions are.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Tootoo, Minister Picco.
Hon. Ed. Picco: Thank you, Chairman. As I said earlier, this is the beginning of the implementation of the new funding formula.
I’ll just read them out very quickly for the members and, again, for the public record.
When were looking at the new positions, the new PY’s, we’re actually taking some of the positions right now that are being hired by DEA.
A good example is the classroom support assistants, I know the members had probably been approached by some of those people here in Iqaluit.
What happens is, right now, the classroom assistant is hired only for 9, they’re hired in September, they’re laid off in June, they’re trying to get unemployment insurance, because they’re not part of the school year, because they’re hired by the DEA.
We’re proposing in this new school funding formula to make all of those types of hires to be Government of Nunavut employees.
Then, they wouldn’t have the issues around being laid off, and so on and so forth, they would follow the school year. In some cases, if they’re following the school year, of course, like other staff at the school, then they would be hired and paid into the 52 week period and not being laid off, then hired, depending on what the position is.
The new increases with the DEA hires, and I’ll start off again with some of the positions we’ve just talked about.
Right now, there’s 51.9 DEA hires, the new PY’s under support assistants will be 40.3.
That’s forty new positions on top of the DEA hires which we’ll transfer to the Government.
On the school counselling side, right now there’s 6.5 under the DEA, we’ll be hiring another 7.8 positions under the new funding formula for school counsellors.
Under administration, for example in a school secretary’s position, we’re not making any changes at this time, under the budget.
Under the custodial workers, that we just talked about earlier, the DEA hires are 15.4, and the new PY’s will be 14.5.
So the increase would be 29.9.
When we look at the total increases, there will be 13 new teaching positions across Nunavut, 92.2 support assistant positions, 4.8 new language positions, new language specialist positions, 14.3 on the school counselling positions, and 29.9 under the custodial positions, for a total of 156.2 positions.
That includes the DEA hires, plus the new PY’s that have been transferred; so I hope that answers the member’s question, Thank you, Chairman.
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you, Chairman. I think it was in the business plan, or somewhere I can’t remember exactly where I’ve seen it.
The department indicated that they had completed and implemented phase one of the changes in the formula, and maybe for the record, if I can just ask the minister if he could explain exactly what has been incorporated in phase one of the new funding formula.
Hon. Ed Picco: Thank you, Chairman. In the phase one of the formula, which was, again, given based on the number of dollars that we had available before this budget, that was the set budget that every department had within government, I tried to make some structural changes within the funding formula itself, and now we’re actually starting to implement phase two of the real formula, because we actually have new dollars in the budget.
What we’ve implemented under phase one and the changes to the formula, we’ve took into account the increase cost in casual wages, so there was a bump up or an increase on the allocation to that amount.
We updated the freight factors, which included an increase in materials and supplies funding for school.
That was included in a new funding formula, and we also increased the student support dollars, from a flat rate to actual average salary rate.
That was the first time these increases have happened since the creation of Nunavut.
That was the first time any of these changes were ever made within the formula since 1999, when we do those.
That was phase one.
Chairman: Thank you Mr. Minister, Mr. Tootoo.
I think some good news there, I’m sure that the minister will make people be aware of that, I’m just wondering if he could formally inform or have the district education authorities formally informed exactly what those changes are, and what changes that they’re planning to implement in phase two.
Hon. Ed Picco: Thank you, Chairman.
It’s on the phase two of the implementation. If this budget goes forward, then we will be implementing the 2005/06 budget, and that’s a $3 million increase to the special needs and classroom support, and that means support for classroom assistants, as well as language specialists, funding for itinerate services, for example, sign language and stuff.
I am very pleased to announce that we will be hiring, for the first time ever, an educational psychologist in this budget, so we would actually have a trained child psychologist to help us with some of the issues that have been raised in this House.
Again, I think that’s phase two of the formula.
If the budget goes through and it’s passed, then immediately what we will be doing is contacting all of the District Education Authorities and explain what the extra dollar values are, break it down by region, by community, by school, to say this is what the increases mean, here’s the new positions that you can expect, here’s the extra funding dollars that we are trying to accomplish and so on.
We would agree with the member that we would follow up with the District Education Authorities.
Again, it would not be appropriate right now to go forward and talk to the District Education Authorities about what we are proposing if it doesn’t go forward.
So, right now, we have an opportunity to discuss the budget.
The member is bringing out some good information through these questions, with that these things are in the budget and will be implemented if the budget goes through.
That’s good then, I mean we are here and we are discussing it, but I am just wondering if the minister, his staff or the department has contacted or informed their partners in education, the District Education Authorities of exactly what these changes are in phase one and what they are planning on doing, as he had just indicated, in phase two and whatever else phase three there, the 50, I guess, with whatever else is out there.
I am just wondering if he hasn’t, if the department hasn’t done that, then if they would be willing to do that just so that.
I talked to some members at the District Education Authority here and you hear all of this new stuff and they don’t understand or know what it is.
I feel it would be helpful if everyone was on the same page and understood all of the good news that’s coming out there.
Change takes time and a fundamental shift that we have been talking about in education is going to take time, it’s going to take four years to start rolling out the beginning of the new school funding formula, increase in positions and so on.
Our major partner in all of this has been the local education authorities.
I have met with all of the local District Education Authorities chairpersons and explained phase one and phase two, what those mean, what we expected to do.
Here in Iqaluit, as an example, the District Education Authority has been briefed.
I have met with them at least twice on some of the changes as recently as the last few weeks.
I have met with every local District Education Authority chairperson in regional meetings in the Kitikmeot and in your home community, as you know, Chairman, I have met with the District Education Authority there also, and I have traveled to almost every community in Nunavut.
So, that process is underway and on the phase one, which we talked about earlier, out of the last year’s budget, those changes have been notified to the District Education Authority, either in letter form through the regional operations office of the Department of Education, and they have been well welcomed by the District Education Authorities.
I think that we move forward to phase two.
Again, we will let the District Education Authorities know, in writing formally, what those changes will be and then the next round, there will more consultation on it when we implement phase three for next year, what those changes should be.
As he talks about what they think those changes should be, does he have any idea of anticipation of any of the planned changes that they hope to achieve in that next phase for next year?
Hon. Ed Picco: Phase one was to look at the structural changes to the program, freight charges, things that haven’t changed since Nunavut began.
Second phase is to actually put more bodies into our schools and core fund them.
Phase three is to look at the literacy projects we have underway; deal with cultural programs and inclusive schooling; look at issues around the language of instruction projects; and how we deal with the District Education Authorities and how we fund them.
This has to be on a parallel course with the new Education Act, because the Education Act, of course, would be looking at a lot of the issues in funding, governance, and administration issues around the Department of Education.
So phase three, as soon as this budget is finished, I will go into the next phase then, as the minister, going around the different communities, meeting with District Education Authorities, and my educational advisory council on phase three, like what we have done with phase one and phase two.
I think the minister indicated that there’s going to be.
I think it was 13, new teaching positions throughout the territory addition.
I wonder if that’s correct and how did they come up with the number 13; I am sure that probably every community could say that they need more teachers.
That’s the question.
A lot of the schools tell us that when you are meeting with them, there has to be support there for the special need.
So, right now, we actually have a position, a teaching position that may be doing academics and then also trying to deal with some of the issues around special needs.
They will be offset with the increase in the new special needs positions we have talked about; over 40 positions across Nunavut.
But some communities may get more special needs because for example, like Iqaluit, we actually have group homes and so on here where there are a resident population of children with special needs.
Chesterfield Inlet is another good example because there’s a facility there that caters to special needs and that would be more than what other communities may have.
We have identified over 13 new teaching positions across Nunavut and again, remembering that the old formula says you are overstaffed.
So, I am basing it on the new formula and exactly what we have as a base and then expanding on top of that and trying to deal with the issues around language, special needs, counsel positions and custodian, phase two of the implementation of the new formula.
I am just wondering if they are going to be actual new bodies teaching in the classroom, or are they just going to be funded positions that have been filled and unfunded in the past?
We are going for 453 PY’s in 2004/05 to 466 PY’s under our teachers’ positions for 2005/06.
So, they are actual increases in the number of teachers.
If we take a look at the total overall numbers as an increase, but a lot of the times, the numbers don’t show when you have unfunded positions that are filled by teachers that are in positions that are unfunded that are aren’t taken into account in those numbers.
Again, my question is that, are there just going to be actual new bodies in the classrooms throughout Nunavut?
Are we going to see job advertisement to go out for 13 teachers for across Nunavut?
Again, in this budget, there’s funding for these new positions that we have just talked about.
Over 82.5 new PY’s does include the teacher positions.
In the allocation, I don’t know where these positions will be going, again, that would be based on what the need is.
So, for example, when we look at the new formula that we are talking about here, we look at a given school, it may be in Kugluktuk, and we would say, look, you need three extra new teacher positions that should be in that school, then that’s what we would allocate, where the greatest need is.
If the issue is, for example, in Whale Cove, then that’s where the need would be.
Wherever the greatest need for the positions are, that’s where these allocations of resources would go.
So that would be a real allocation of positions and there would be a budget there for it.
We have some schools, according to the formula right now, that are overstaffed.
We have other schools, which, according to the formula, may be at the staffing level or maybe below the staffing level.
So we need to take those needs into account and that’s how the allocation will be made.
So they are real positions, real money, as allocated, but I don’t know where they will go.
It’s depending on what the need is after the budget is completed.
I appreciate the minister’s intent to that.
I think that you need to clarify it more.