EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
We will be involved in the ordering of new office furnishings, the transport of new and existing office equipment and furnishings and the installation of new communication systems in the communities.
Mr. Chairman, as you are aware the Petroleum Products Division is responsible for providing fuel to the communities of Nunavut.
In 2001-2002, PPD has been allocated 5.2 million in capital funds for the maintenance and enhancement of bulk fuel storage facilities in communities across Nunavut.
In addition, Mr. Chairman, Public Works and Services has been allocated another 1 million capital for much needed upgrades to GN facilities.
My department continues to support the GN’s Community Transfer Initiative, (CTI).
Under this initiative the GN transfers ownership and/or responsibility for the maintenance of GN assets to community governments.
(interpretation) In October, my department signed an agreement with the community of Gjoa Haven under the CTI.
It is my understanding that Gjoa Haven is doing an excellent job in managing their own affairs and I am proud that my department has provided its support.
I look forward to entering into similar agreements with interested communities to further community capacity building.
Finally, as my colleagues are aware, the Canadian Coast Guard – Arctic Office’s role in the administration of the Eastern Arctic Sealift program expired at the end of the 2000 shipping season.
As a result, my department is currently preparing a contract to provide the sealift function which will include consolidating orders, marine transportation and delivery of goods.
A contract should be in place by mid March and I anticipate that this will represent a reduction in costs from previous years.
My department will continue to look for innovative and cost effective ways of doing business in the north.
(interpretation) I believe the initiatives that are being undertaken by my department will support us as we strive to become more efficient in our operations and the services that we provide to our clients.
I hope these comments have been informative and will help you in your deliberations.
I will now ask the committee chair to do his opening comments. Mr. McLean.
The Standing Committee on Community Empowerment and Sustainable Development has reviewed the budget estimates and business plan of the Department of Public Works and Services for the 2001-2002 fiscal year and I am pleased to provide you with the committee's comments.
As you know, Mr. Chairman, the issue of staff housing has been of great concern to Members of this Assembly.
Our government faces many challenges when it comes to the hiring and retention of staff, and the lack of sufficient staff housing units adds to this challenge.
The Standing Committee was pleased to see that funds have been set aside for new leases for staff housing units in the upcoming fiscal year.
We were also pleased to hear that the minister has committed to tabling the department's staff housing policy that was recently approved, in principle, by cabinet.
The committee is looking forward to reading this policy when it is tabled.
The committee has noted, Mr. Chairman that the minister has yet to table the Petroleum Products Division Operational Review.
The committee also noted that the Department of Finance's business plan states that it will be undertaking a review of subsidy programs for various utility services, one of which will be the fuel subsidy program.
Another report, the Ikuma Report, also makes recommendations regarding the Petroleum Products Division.
There appears to be an overlap between the department's review and the others that have been mentioned.
The committee would like to emphasize the need to coordinate these reviews and develop a long-term plan to establish a more efficient and effective PPD operation.
The committee would like to suggest that the Petroleum Products Division would be well served to be included in the government's major program review exercise that was announced in both the opening address and the budget address.
In its review of the department's budget estimates, the committee noted that the total expenditures of the Informatics Branch from April 1, 1999 to March 31, 2002 will exceed 37 million.
The committee also noted that in the most recent supplementary appropriation, 5.8 million has been appropriated for IT operations.
Large supplementary appropriations have also been made in previous years.
The committee is concerned with what appears to be a lack of thorough budget planning for IT operations and we will be seeking a detailed explanation of costs in these areas.
The committee was pleased to hear that community capacity building is moving forward in Nunavut and we would like to congratulate the Hamlet of Gjoa Haven on its recent signing of a Community Transfer Initiative agreement with the department.
The committee is encouraged to see the government promoting the principle of self-reliance as set out in the Bathurst Mandate.
As you know, Mr. Chairman, the NNI Policy is approaching the first anniversary of its implementation.
The committee noted that the NNI Policy states that: "A Contracting Policy Review Committee, consisting of representatives appointed by the Government of Nunavut and Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated, shall be established to review the implementation of the Policy...at least on an annual basis."
During the committee's meetings with the department, the minister indicated that a six-month review was underway and the committee raised several concerns, for the minister's consideration, regarding the application of this Policy.
The committee looks forward to an update on both the previous and upcoming reviews of the NNI Policy as well as an update on who has been named to the Contracting Policy Review Committee and the Contracting Appeals Board that were established under the policy.
The committee has expressed its support for the transfer of responsibility for the Eastern Arctic Sealift from the Canadian Coast Guard to the Government of Nunavut.
This transfer enables our government to better serve its people.
The minister has stated that the cost of this service will be considerably lower than in previous years.
The committee would also like to recommend that a review of the costs take place following the upcoming sealift season to confirm whether these cost savings have indeed been realized and that the minister will report these findings to the Assembly in the fall session.
I am sure that individual members will raise their own comments and concerns on the department's 2001-2002 budget estimates.
Madam Minister, I would like to ask the committee if the minister’s witnesses could come forward to join her at the witness table.
Sergeant-at-Arms please bring in the witnesses.
Madam Minister could you please introduce your witnesses.
On my right is Ross Mrazek, Deputy Minister for Public Works and on my left is Patrick Galbraith, manager of finance and administration in Public Works and Susan Muckpa is also here with Petroleum Products and you will probably have a lot of questions for Roy Green who is with Petroleum Products.
Madam Minister we are now going to be dealing with Public Works.
I would now like to draw the member's attention to the capital plan for Public Works page 6-5 which is overall details of expenditures.
Members can make general comments for up to ten minutes.
Are there any members wishing to make general comments.
If there are no members wishing to make general comments we will go into Public Works and Services expense summary.
Page 6-6 Technical Services.
We were to start on 6-5 but we will start on 6-6.
Total capital expenditures, 1 million 80 thousand.
Chairperson (interpretation): Turn the page, 6-7 Public Works and Services, we are going to be dealing with the details.
On page 6-6.
If you go to the back of the document 6-8.
I am just clarifying to see if there are any comments on these items.
Does this include the offices that we rent.
We'll get to that Mr. Arvaluk.
We are on capital estimates.
I am sorry I did not clarify that at the beginning.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): Mr. Chairman I would like to go back to 6-7.
The total Qikiqtaaluk region is 870 thousand.
There is a computer room for 100 thousand dollars.
Where is this computer room located.
Is it for all of Nunavut or I would just like to get clarification on where it is located.
Chairperson (interpretation): In the capital estimates page 6-7. Total Qikiqtaaluk region, 870 thousand.
Madam Minister would you like to respond.
I was totally confused as to where you were.
Can you wait a minute.
Chairperson (interpretation): We are now dealing with Public Works and Services.
Hon. Manitok Thompson (interpretation): I was not sure.
I was looking at the main estimates and we are in capital estimates.
The question is to do with 6-7 computer room and it is in Iqaluit.
I think that is the question, I will get Mr. Galbraith to respond.
It is for computer equipment I think but I will get Mr. Galbraith to respond.
In the Baffin region we have a roof replacement 770 thousand for the Brown Building for much needed repairs as it is leaking.
For the computer room it is an expansion in the Brown Building, for much needed new servers that will be brought in from the Federal Building and another area to centralize the computer room.
I am sorry I did not pronounce your name correctly but I will try my best.
Mr. Nutarak did you want to continue.
The minister stated that the computer room is used, or they are getting equipment and her staff stated that the computers need to be expanded. Could you clarify what they are really doing up at the Brown Building.
My staff, the response that Mr. Galbraith just stated it is correct.
I just want to state that his comments or response was correct.
I agree with Madam Minister.
The Department of Public Works on the capital estimates and main estimates are quite hard to understand.
They are quite confusing.
When it just states computer room, you do not know what they are doing to the computer room so if you go to page 6-8 it just states equipment acquisition and it does not state what equipment they are acquiring.
Also on page 6-10 it says ESA remediation, capacity code upgrade.
I would not know what that meant or what is was for.
I think the Department of Public Works and Services should clarify each item.
We will start to clarify what each item is and explain better.
I understand where you are coming from and so I will agree to do that.
We are on 870 thousand, Total Qikiqtaaluk Region.
Please turn the page to 8-9.
Public Works and Services, branch summary, Petroleum Products Division.
Total capital expenditures, 5 million 165 thousand.
I just want to get some clarification under 5 million 165 thousand.
This branch acquires, stores and distributes petroleum products to those communities in Nunavut that are not serviced by the private sector.
So, outside of Iqaluit, anything outside of Iqaluit, will cost Public Works 5 million 186 thousand for all of Nunavut to put petroleum products into 27 communities.
Is that how we understand it.
Mr. Mrazek: Petroleum Products is distributed in Iqaluit, Cambridge Bay, and Resolute Bay by private contractors.
The other communities are through the PPD and through the contractors who are engaged in business with the PPD.
The 5 million 165 thousand is related to the capital plans and improvement of the existing facilities which are under the Government of Nunavut.
Mr. Arvaluk: So, this 5 million 165 thousand dollars follows the 6-11, 6-12.
If so I want to go through this first before we deal with that 6-9.
I think the member is asking to go to 6-10 first, public works and services branch summary, petroleum products division.
Buildings and works, total headquarters region 455 thousand dollars.
Petroleum products division, page 6-11.
Mr. Arvaluk: Mr. Chairman, that 455 thousand dollars, but we did not deal with anything else under the bottom of the 455 thousand dollars.
That's what I was waiting for you to deal with.
If 6-11 is part of that, part of the 6-10, then I'll ask questions on 6-10 and 6-11.
We’re almost to the page where you want to ask the question.
Baffin Region, 3 million 40 thousand dollars, Qikiqtaaluk.
I think that's where you have your question.
If members have any questions.
I don't think we can argue too much about the contents or at least the amount but here we go again.
I have a problem, it's a problem with translations, it's more about trying to understand the meanings of those methods used to.
I know that this is the capital budget and this is how they write it.
If you're talking about details, then, 160 thousand dollars for example on page 6-10, Arctic Bay, increased capacity code upgrade, okay.
So, it looks like the tank is being expanded outwards somehow so that it could hold more fuel and to thicken the wall so that it can be stronger for code upgrade.
Is there any way that public works can tell us in a very simple form like, are you building a new tank.
Are you putting a new dyke.
What are we doing here.
Ms. Minister.
We can get into the detail of Arctic Bay increased capacity code upgrades.
It's in regards to the tank farm over there but we can’t provide you with the details on the substantiation sheet for that but this is why we have questions to us I guess so that we can provide details but I understand the frustration of the member.
It's hard enough to try to translate technical sentences.
It's also difficult to try to include all the details in the capital budget for that specific area but we can come up with better wording if the member wants us to do so in next budget.
I'll ask Mr. Galbraith to go to that specific area and just explain what the detail is for that.
Perhaps maybe if the questions are responded to in a proper manner and the person asking the question could ask the question in a clear manner.
I am not asking for detailed information regarding Arctic Bay.
I am talking about Arctic Bay, Cape Dorset, Hall Beach, Qikiqtarjuaq, Sanikiluaq, everybody.
It is in the same jargon that they use to try to say something that what they are doing in those communities.
It is so hard, I mean, is it so hard to say exactly what they are doing in those words, like for example, new tanks.
What’s wrong with saying new tanks or repairing the old tanks for 160 thousand for example is what I would like see.
Instead of saying increase capacity, includes capacity, everything includes capacity but what are they really doing.
Which of your officials is going to answer the question.
I agree with the honourable member that our descriptions in the capital are not as clear as they could be.
To make it more precise to a person that is not in the technical field, specifically in the Arctic Bay situation.
That is a study that will be done in Arctic Bay to determine the need for future tank increase.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Galbraith.
Mr. Arvaluk: I really appreciate that because if I was from Arctic Bay I would be expecting 160 thousand and new tanks or make the tanks bigger in fact what they are trying to say is that is the tank in that community will be big enough for the next 3, 4, 5 year capital plans that they are studying right now for 160 thousand.
In that case, I would appreciate it that other places like this could be explained so that real members can communicate with their mayors and say here is what they brought to us in the House.
I will be asking a few questions what we said about it and if I do not know exactly what it is then it becomes problematic.
The individuals who come from that constituency or that community we will explain what the meaning of the, what it means in the main estimates.
As soon as I ask my officials they give an explanation of what it means and I could also go to each member to explain to them what it means in the main estimates.
I am sure the minister realizes that the minister knows that there are a lot of departments in the Nunavut Government.
All the Members of the Legislative Assembly have to deal with the Main Estimates and we do not always like to ask too many questions of each department.
We have a lot of departments to deal with and I just want to make sure that the minister realizes that we have to know what they mean in the Main Estimates.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Arvaluk. I just want to clarify what Mr. Arvaluk is talking about.
Will they be getting increase capacity code upgrade.
Are they going to expand the oil tanks or are going to build a new one or will they make more than one oil tank in the community…
So, what I'm saying as well, following Mr. Arvaluk's comments is that we would like to have those explanations clarified so we can understand what the department is talking about.
I wanted some explanation as well in regard to that.
James already had his question.
Turning to page 6-11.
Various, Qikiqtaaluk, 3 million 40 thousand dollars.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): Under 6-11, under various, Qikiqtaaluk, 100 thousand dollars.
It says install outdoor measurers in Inuktitut.
Can you explain what that means.
Are they going to be checking how the weather is outside or…
I wanted to find out what that means.
I couldn't understand it myself so, perhaps I can explain, these are the metres that are attached on oil tanks.
They have to be installed and I'll get Mr. Mrazek to explain exactly how they're installed or what they're about so you can get better clarification.
I'll give it to Mr. Mrazek.
Mr. Mrazek: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
This is a very complex technical project and I will try accomplish that under two minutes or less.
As you know, every dispensing facility, before you stick the nozzle into the gas tank or oil tank, has the meter behind it.
It used to be that the meter was installed and the meter was working regardless of whether is –40 or +20.
It was indicating the same quantity of the fuel.
Now with the temperature-compensating meter, the meter will take into effect the outside temperature and actually the temperature of the fuel and then properly distribute it.
So what that means is using the ordinary meter, it will give you same amount, regardless of the temperature.
But with the compensating meter, you are automatically compensated for the temperature.
So from that point, the purchaser who buys the fuel is getting exactly one litre or gallon or whatever he is getting from that point and therefore, we're minimizing the losses which have been incurred for the last number of years.
Basically, giving more fuel than is one litre from that point based on the temperature.
I hope I'm clear.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): I now understand that these meters are going to be outside.
They're going to be put on the tanks.
I think that it would have been better if it was made clear in the estimates.
I think he got the response.
Mr. Arvaluk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Keewatin and the Baffin and the Kitikmeot. I think 25 thousand dollars for the Kitikmeot, totalling 225 thousand to put in these meters.
That is probably because you were losing too much fuel.
You fill up the tank and we used to lose money because of the shrinkage of the product.
We lost approximately a quarter of a million dollars with this compression and you had to put in those meters because of that.
Yes, the fuel basically expands based on the temperature and to minimize this shrinkage and some portion of the operation and the losses the need for the temperature-compensating meter is absolutely needed.
They have been installed down south all over the Canada and the United States for many, many years.
They are not exactly cheap but they are definitely working and there is a proper way to do it because we are minimizing the loss of the fuel.
That was a clear explanation. We are still on 3 million 40 thousand.
Total Keewatin, 550 thousand.
Total Kitikmeot 1 million 120 thousand.
Page number 6-12 is an information item and then we will go back to Petroleum Products 6-9.
We will go back to page 6-5.
Public Works and Services, program delivery, detail of expenditures.
Total capital expenditure, 6 million 245 thousand.
We are now done with the Public Works and Services capital estimates.
We will then go back to the main estimates.
Page 6-6.
Minister I would like to ask if we are going to have the same witnesses or officials while we are dealing with this.
I will have the same officials at the witness table.
Petroleum Products will be represented by other officials from that department whom we are still waiting for.
Chairperson (interpretation): We are on the main estimates, page 6-6.
I believe you are on the right page by now.
On page 6-6, I am not going to be referring to the way the wording is used in the estimates.
Chairperson (interpretation): I will have to make comments before you make general comments.
I was just referring to the page numbers.
Public Works and Services, branch summary.
Directorate, total operations and maintenance, 6 million 308 thousand.
In the year 2000-2001, purchased services, it is not my dialect at all but there was 194 thousand for 2000-2001 now for 2001-2002 we have 2 million 185 thousand.
This is an increase of about 11 times.
Hon. Manitok Thompson (interpretation): There is a huge increase in that line item because the telephone services for the government were separated and we had to re-do the whole system and it is now going through Public Works and Services.
These are telephone services that were in the various departments before and are now in Public Works.
Mr. Arvaluk: So if you are going to be paying for the telephone bills for the different departments, how are you monitoring the proper usage of the departmental phones.
Do the departments still have to certify them before you pay them.
That’s a very good question and I will refer it to our finance official, Mr. Galbraith.
It is our duty to screen the telephone long distance calls that we download from software.
We identify any misuse and we send reports to the individual department managers for their approval as well.
General questions and comments.
We are on 6 million, Public Works and Services, branch summary.
Directorate, 6 million 308 thousand.
Turning over.
Public Works and Services, branch summary, technical services.
Total operations and maintenance, 4 million 299 thousand dollars.
Looking at 6-6 and 6-7, it's more of a comment than a question, but also on 6-5 we have the pie chart, it says 6% for technical services and directorate is 7%.
And it's 2.8 here when it says it's 6% so it seems like it's double when you look at the actual numbers.
I'm sure that's for salaries and benefits but, travel and transportation and page 6-7, 414 thousand dollars, it's 800 thousand dollars, almost a million bucks for travel and transportation.
Is that for travel for the technical services personnel or is there anything else included in that line.
Hon. Manitok Thompson: Mr. Chair, the standard calculations for that is that, we estimate that there would be 3 trips per position at 3 thousand dollars per trip just for calculation purposes and that's for conferences and training etc.
That's for travel as a calculated figure.
That's how we calculate that.
Mr. Arvaluk: Calculated from the compensation and benefits.
Because for 2000-2001, you have for example 4.8 million dollars, you had 255 thousand dollars for travel and this time you have 3.7 million dollars, you have 414 thousand dollars for travel and transportation.
How much of the calculations method has changed and why.
I will refer it to our finance person.
In the past we did not have a particular standard and that's why we implemented it this year so we can get some sort of idea and calculate it to the historical costs so that we can hit a particular line and once we have a historical basis, we can adjust accordingly.
Mr. Arvaluk: In the Government of the Northwest Territories and the federal government and now the Nunavut Government, we have seen a lot of the management of different departments, especially Public Works, historically, not necessarily this department and this department’s personnel. But sometimes when you are in the field, I'm from Kivalliq, that you know, there would be some comments made that I still have 10 thousand dollars travel budget in three months before March 31st.
I better use that up otherwise there will be nothing much coming next year.