EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Whether these positions are in the finance or administration sectors, or even computer technicians, we should be looking at the best trained and qualified Nunavutmiut to undertake these positions and that is what we meant by that.
Are there any questions to the opening comments?
I would like to welcome the minister and his deputy, Mr. Campbell.
I noted that it was not included in the opening comments, but an issue that is dear to my heart was conspicuously absent. I really wanted to see this issue spoken to even if it is not included in the opening address, but maybe he can respond to my question regarding surgeons especially, also called specialists. I would like to discuss cancer specialists who deal with cancer patients.
I wonder if these are a separate category since they are generally self-employed. Do they receive payment only after they have completed their work?
What I am trying to enquire about is: do you have a process in place where you pay doctors promptly? Many of us have heard that sometimes the health department is consistently late in making payments.
Perhaps this applies to the government in general, that contract payments take too long to be paid, which exacerbates the problem we have in getting contractors to work for our government since they are not being paid promptly and they no longer wish to continue with their contracts.
My question is this: do you pay your contractors promptly, especially with regard to those professionals who are looking after Nunavummiut?
We would not want them to deny medical services to our people, especially the medical professionals in the south.
I will ask my deputy to provide a response to that question. Prior to his response, I would like to mention that in some of these specialized services, evaluations were done on those services.
Here I am not referring to surgeons but other doctors who specialize in certain practices or services. We also have people who evaluate our service provisions.
Once their reports are evaluated to determine if those reports are adequate, they are awarded contracts.
On occasion, I have been told that sometimes, the period it takes to receive payment takes too long, especially with regard to certain specialized services.
I will now refer the question about surgeons and doctors to Alex, my deputy minister, Mr. Chairman.
Thanks to the member for asking the question.
We do continue to have our challenges in filling the positions in the finance and administration area. I can’t tell you with full confidence that we are not going to continue to have some minor problems in payments of invoices to our providers.
However, I can assure the member that we continue to review the concerns that have been raised by people who have not been paid, including other providers on their invoices.
That is an issue that we take very seriously and we continue to monitor to make sure that the specific concerns that are raised for non-payment are addressed immediately.
We do have our finance and administration section that does the analysis and preparation of the documents. The actual payment of accounts is done by the Department of Finance and we do have an MOU signed with them to make sure that our accounts payable are addressed accordingly.
Mr. Arvaluk: Thank you for the answer.
The invoices probably go through you, especially for those professionals who provide services to Nunavummiut, whether they come here into Iqaluit, or to communities, or the patient attends specialized treatment in the south.
I assume that you see all of the invoices.
Would you consider enclosing sort of a generic letter requesting if the invoices have been paid timely and if not, to contact you directly because you want to pay them timely so that they continue to respect the patients of Nunavut?
I have a simple answer, yes, member, we will make sure that we are prudent and address some of those outstanding issues that we do have with our providers.
Yes, I will consider providing a generic letter in the payments to ensure that they contact the appropriate person in the department to make sure that the payments are made within a reasonable time that are paid under the FAM manual.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Campbell. (interpretation ends) We are in opening comments.
Any further? Mr. Aupaluktuq.
I also want to welcome the Hon. Minister Curley and Deputy Minister Campbell.
In your opening comments on page 3, the second last paragraph is noted as saying that “The department will review all current contracts to determine value for money and work performed.”
I just want to state in response to the opening comments that there is a general feeling out there from Nunavummiut and members would like to see some permanent positions filled.
All departments have vacant positions. The health sector is in crucial and dire need of filling indeterminate positions to provide effective services.
That much the department knows as well because we members have often, in the House with legislation, provided the view that effective services are crucial.
We understand there are some obstacles and some barriers, but it is also up to us as legislators and also with the help of our departments, such as Health and Social Services, that we have to bridge those vacant positions to ensure that we are able to provide quality service and in turn, improving the quality of life.
I am glad to see the minister is here and has always been open-minded as well as being able to provide feedback. If he is not able to provide some information, he has always been courteous enough with the members to provide some later concrete information with the members in question.
With that, I just wanted to make that statement, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Aupaluktuq. (interpretation ends) That was a comment.
Are there any further questions or comments on the opening remarks?
(interpretation) To the opening comments. (interpretation ends) Mr. Elliott, you’re up.
I wanted to go back to some of the replies I got in terms of the agency nurses and the contract that is given out.
I believe it was Minister Curley who said that they are not actually employees of the Government of Nunavut but they are employees of the person who is contracting them.
In terms of the nurses, has the department sought any legal counsel on the issue of things like malpractice? If something goes wrong in the nursing station and if there was an investigation, then who is actually to blame? Is it the Government of Nunavut or is it the contractor?
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Elliott. (interpretation ends) Me, I get blamed for everything.
We will have both departments respond to that.
Really, I think the Department of Justice should also be involved in responding to that question.
I can tell you that throughout Canada, not only in Nunavut, most of the contractors, particularly the government, pretty well, normally these days, will ask for a waiver of liability for any risks associated with huge work.
So for instance, they will want to have that waiver signed by the government and considered before they enter into an arrangement. There is a proper legal word for that, but my deputy will likely respond to that.
The only way that I can give you some hint of that is most of the contacts of this nature will include that request for that risk associated taken on by the government.
I will have my deputy at least respond to some of that.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Curley. Mr. Campbell.
In follow-up to the minister’s response, yes, there is a standard clause in the contracts that provide some liability on the part of the provider in the event that things go wrong, in this case, at the health centres or wrong with the contract that they would be liable for that service.
So we continue to monitor all of the contracts to make sure that that provision is included in there.
The onus as well is on the provider or the contractor to make that there is liability insurance provided on these contracts that we issue.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Elliott.
Yes, I was going to say that you seemed to get blamed for everything and I just don’t understand it.
My question to the minister is: the government’s most recent annual report on procurement activities indicates that your department awarded a $161,250 sole source contract in 2008-09 to an individual to provide administrative and support systems development.
What specific services did this individual provide and why couldn’t your department’s own employees do this work? It’s contract C1439, so C1439.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Elliott. Who can respond to the question? Minister Curley.
Hon. Tagak Curley: Before Alex picks on the details of that, I think, in my opening comments, I alluded to the fact that the department is committed to working with Human Resources to try and activate and at least fill the critical positions that the department has in order to provide that service.
When there isn’t a service available to provide basic, for instance, administrative work required of critical positions at the executive level, eventually, like I responded to one question earlier in the opening remarks, we end up including a training component to it so that the individual hired will provide that service to more junior service staff that are available.
I think members should also know that it takes a huge amount of time to fill a position. If there is an indeterminate position, it takes a minimum of six months to fill that position. I said a minimum of six months and in most cases, it takes a year to fill that position once it’s advertised and so on.
So the puzzle doesn’t always fit just right.
There is a whole case scenario that we can mention, but it’s because of the lack of services available within the department that the contract services are entered into to provide basic services, but I’ll let my deputy respond specifically to that service.
Thank you to the member for asking the question.
The staff that we currently have on the IT unit in the department provide general support services to the department as a whole on regular maintenance and some troubleshooting kind of responsibilities.
In saying that, there are specific requirements for IT purposes. Some of the hardware and software that we do purchase require some specialized delivery mechanisms and technical skills that these providers provide training to our staff.
IT, in general, is an area that we do contract out on a regular basis for specific specialized areas.
So that’s one of the reasons why we do that, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Elliott.
Mr. Elliott: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So if I understand what you’re saying with the combined answers of Mr. Curley and the deputy minister, the person who was contracted in this position… the skills were not available within your department and this person had the skills and is now teaching someone within the department the skills so that you would be able to not contract anymore, you would actually be able to hire.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Elliott. Mr. Campbell.
Mr. Campbell: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The member is correct. There are a number of reasons why we would contract out, either we don’t have the capacity in-house to provide that service and technical support to the system and to staff, as well, the other reason is, of course, we don’t have the technical skills in the staff to perform those tasks.
The third reason is that we do have, as I said, more general support that’s provided by the current staff that we do have right now to the whole department.
There will be times that we will require technical skills to provide training.
Yes, once training is provided to my staff, the onus is on them to continue to improve their skills and as well, provide that support to other staff in the department.
We’re now in June 2010 and this individual is currently listed in your departmental staff directory. Is the individual now a full-time employee of the department and a member of the public service?
Can I request that the member repeat specifically which contract that he is referring to on the list, please?
Chairman: It would be the second last page of the Health and Social Services contracts and the contract referred to is like ten contracts down, C1439.
For the benefit of the deputy, there are no page numbers on these contracts. If you go through the health department’s contract listing, it should be the second last page.
So there’s the individual identified and according to the member, this individual is in the staff registry and a contractor is listed.
So the question is if the individual is now an employee and no longer on contract.
Mr. Campbell, I hope you have found it. It’s 1439.
I feel like a bingo announcer at this point, repeating the number.
I’m sorry, I probably need new glasses.
In this particular contract, contract number C1439 in the amount of $161,250, the person was hired to provide records management services for the department initially.
The person was also hired to provide training to some of our junior staff in the department to provide administrative and financial support to the department.
In a more recent time, the person in question has been hired on a casual basis as of April 1 of this year to provide executive support to my office.
Again what you are saying is that she is not actually a full-time employee, she is still on contract.
Mr. Campbell: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That is correct, Mr. Chairman.
Just to repeat, the person now is on casual, she is not on contract. As of April 1, 2010, the person is providing casual service to my office as an executive coordinator.
That position remains vacant as the current incumbent in that position is on an internal transfer assignment to an executive secretary position.
At some point in time this year, that position will be advertised and the competitive process will take place.
Mr. Elliott: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The next question is in regard to contract C1483, C1483.
I feel like I’m doing bingo too. It’s on page 95 on the same page.
The government’s most recent annual report on procurement activities indicates that your department awarded a $292,250 sole source contract in 2008-09 to an individual to act as a financial consultant for the Territorial Health Access Fund.
What specific services did this individual provide and why couldn’t your department’s own employees do this work?
One thing that should be clarified here is that some of the amounts that are reflected in the listing of contracts are the total awards of the contracts.
The actual expenditure of the contract is still… I’m not quite sure where that one is at, but that type of information is, in fact, available.
The person in question with an 18-month contract was hired to provide financial support services to the department.
Due to our almost 100 percent vacancy rate in our Corporate Services headquarters at the time when I started at the department, there was very little support in Corporate Services.
The person provided ongoing support to the regional office. The person also provided support to the THAF funding program, initiating a process where we were requesting business cases from staff to make sure that we accessed the Territorial Health Access Fund so that we can use that effectively in the department.
The person in question again has recently been moved on. He is no longer a contractor of the government; he has been hired on a casual basis to set up the Medical Travel Office for the territory.
Further questions?
If this individual who was contracted moved on to the territorial travel part, then who is handling the financial consultation for the Territorial Health Access Fund?
That is an important part I missed out, sorry about that.
One of the other requirements of that position was to train a beneficiary to take over that liaison role eventually.
There is a beneficiary in that position currently on a part-time basis.
The person chose to be on part time on a casual, it’s not on a permanent, but a beneficiary is looking after that part of the liaison now with support from my office and other offices of the department.
The next one I have on the list is Ms. Ugyuk.
Ms. Ugyuk (interpretation): Thank you. (interpretation ends) The government’s most recent annual report on procurement activities indicates that your department awarded a $48,500 sole source contract in 2008-09 for an individual to develop a best practices model for Inuit shelters, contract C200.
On May 18, 2010, a cabinet minister in the Yukon government announced in that territory’s legislature that the Yukon, NWT, and Nunavut governments have been working together to present a business case to the federal government to support more women’s shelters in the territories.
Was this contract related to this initiative?
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Ms. Ugyuk.
Hon. Tagak Curley: Thank you. (interpretation) I would prefer that you would inform us of which contract number you are talking about.
Mr. Campbell has that information and he will respond. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
When we were developing the policy around the shelter program, which was approved by cabinet almost a year ago, to provide for shelters in Nunavut, we had hired an individual with some experience in women’s shelters and the development of women’s shelters to travel into the communities to provide some consultations.
Particularly in the sites where we do have the shelters established right now, the person did travel to Taloyoak, as well as Kugluktuk and other communities to meet with the people there and to identify some areas that they needed to address when it comes to women’s shelters.
The individual is no longer on contract. The results of the work that was done by this individual was fed into the recommendations that I provided to the Executive Council to develop a policy around women’s shelters in Nunavut.
Ms. Ugyuk: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Will you commit to tabling copies of both the best practices model for Inuit shelters and the tri-territorial business case concerning women’s shelters in the Legislative Assembly?
Which one of you will respond?
Our policy that was approved by the cabinet, as Alex stated, it was one year ago. We called it the Saillivik Policy because we didn’t want to call it Qimaavik.
As I stated earlier, we had a retreat in Cape Dorset almost two years ago and at that time, we were given funding and made a change to our legislation.
As I stated earlier, we have five shelters in Nunavut.
Just last year, we set up a program.
Mr. Chairman, I will be able to table that document in the House.
Ms. Ugyuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I understood the statement you made with regard to the five safe houses, but I want it known that the shelter in Taloyoak has not been opened for a year.
The question that I would like to ask is: (interpretation ends) why was this contract awarded on a sole source basis?
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Ms. Ugyuk. Mr. Campbell.
We will be reviewing the situation in the community of Taloyoak.
We have been having some challenges in getting the services provided by the safe shelter there.
We will be working with the community, as the minister had committed to earlier to work with the communities, to develop proposals around safe shelters in Nunavut.
Chairman: Mr. Campbell, the question was: why was this contract, C200, sole sourced?
As I indicated earlier, the person in question had very good experience in the development of models, particularly in an aboriginal community, for safe shelters in Canada.
As a department, we wanted to get the policy developed as Nunavummiut were asking for policies from the department in the area of safe shelters.
So we did seek out individuals across Canada with some expertise in providing this service. In this case, we provided a sole source contract to this individual.
Thank you, Ms. Ugyuk.
I would like to return to Ms. Ugyuk’s comments and add a supplementary.
Within the same contract, C200, it states that these are Inuit shelters.
Why are they called Inuit shelters? The minister stated in Inuktitut the term Ikajuqtauvik. Why doesn’t it just stop right there?
This contract C200 outlines that here, to develop a best practices model for Inuit shelters. Is this not applicable for all Nunavummiut?
With regard to the naming of these shelters, the community can give them a name that they prefer. If they wish to call them Qimaaviit, it’s entirely up to the community.
However, with regard to the policy which outlines how we fund these shelters or where they can provide proposals for funding, it’s called the Saillivik Policy.
The name is not important.
As per John Ningark’s statement today, his community tabled a petition this winter. The petition from Kugaaruk is not a proposal and it outlines the community’s position. They do qualify for funding if they would like to create a shelter.
The barrier was that there was no existing facility available. Our response to that petition from the community was sent to the hamlet council whereby we asked what type of shelter they want and which departments need to be involved. We will work with the community to develop that shelter.
However, with regard to what the local preferences are for the naming of a shelter, we leave that entirely at their discretion.
Yes, that may be the case, but I’m asking about this departmental contract name under contract C200.
I have no concerns about local naming preferences, but it states here, (interpretation ends) “to develop a best practices model for Inuit shelters.” (interpretation) As an example, if we were to look at names, we could state “a model for Nunavummiut shelters” since that applies to all of Nunavut and not just Inuit. This seems to be stating that only Inuit require shelters.
That was what I was trying to get at when I queried you about the names of the shelters.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Arvaluk. (interpretation ends) The question is the title is the issue.
This is an open territory for everyone, where it’s not just Inuit who have to go to shelters from now and again.
Mr. Campbell, do you want to explain this?
I thank the member for that statement and question.
It was just likely an oversight on our part in naming the work that needs to be accomplished there.
We do fully appreciate and agree that it shouldn’t be just an Inuit shelter. We take that and we will ensure that any other contracts or any other work that we do will be more from a public government perspective.
I’m asking for clarification purposes under contract 1440 on page 95 in the (interpretation ends) Government of Nunavut Procurement Activity Report. (interpretation) There is a sole source contract for $162,800 to Gloria Penner in Nunavut.
If it’s the same individual, I thought she was from Winnipeg. Why does the location state Nunavut?
I’m in the same boat as the other member.
I don’t know. That’s why the description is Nunavut territory. The only information that I can provide is that it’s to provide Nunavut-wide services.
In fact, that premise is in Winnipeg providing specialized services.
Mr. Arvaluk: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are quite a few location identifications of simply Nunavut. That means these are usually Nunavut-wide services that most of them are located in the south. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
In most cases, you are correct. It provides for Nunavut-wide service outside of the territory and in this case, Winnipeg.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Campbell. (interpretation ends) It looks like we annexed Winnipeg.
Maybe a new Area 7.
Mr. Chairman, perhaps I could suggest that whenever the locations are identifiable within Canada, we identify those locations according to the place of service where the contracts are being awarded.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Arvaluk. Who would like to respond? Mr. Campbell.
Yes, we will provide that type of specific information to the Department of CGS when we are preparing the reports for tabling.
I guess that will also be instructed by CGS to all other departments to have a specific location when a contract is awarded with an address of that contractor.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Arvaluk. Mr. Campbell.