EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Well read. (interpretation) Now as we proceed to the review, let me remind members of our two simple rules governing this process which ought to be ingrained by now, but again I would like to remind you that according to Rule 77(1), you have 10 minutes to speak, and according to Rule 77(2), subject to the discretion of the Chair, a member may speak more than once to a matter under discussion but not until every member wishing to speak has spoken.
At this time, I want to open the floor to general comments only, if members have any general comments, and to remind you that during this time if any member has general comments, this is your opportunity to express those thoughts. However, keep in mind that every question you have on the details will be reached during the page-by-page review. I imagine all the details will be listed out and every question you have on the details will eventually be reached.
I now open the floor for general comments.
We will then move on to the English page L-3 and please listen carefully.
Go to page N-IV-1.
In English, (interpretation ends) Corporate Summary. (interpretation) Are there any questions?
N-IV-1.
N-IV-2.
I’ll start over again. We will start on N-IV-2.
I will recognize Ms. Angnakak and I apologize.
Ms. Angnakak (interpretation): It’s okay. (interpretation ends) Thank you and welcome to you all.
Let me start off with District Program Administration and that. I just want to touch on what I have brought up before in the past in regard to the application process that some people, especially the elders, have to go through. When they are applying for a program, sometimes a lot of information is required of an elder whose status really hasn’t changed over the years when they make multiple applications.
I’m wondering if you have given any thought to that, especially when we’re talking about the senior citizens’ home repair, emergency home repair, and those kinds of things, if you could touch on that.
I believe it has been an ongoing concern also for our corporation.
From that time until now, there is always one form called a CRA form that is used when they’re applying. (interpretation ends) The consent of that one form that is all that is required.
I’m wondering if you can tell me then… . With the CRA form, I know that was one of the forms that were asked for. Is that so you still want three years of financial information from an elder?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, I believe we can get that information from the CRA for three years.
We can request for three years of income information through CRA.
Would the minister commit to looking at the other requirements? I think I have asked this before a year ago. The government has different programs and services that any Nunavummiut can access, including elders, and they are often very different.
I’m wondering if the housing corporation can look at some of those requests and see how they do it because I can tell you that it’s a lot less cumbersome than what you guys have.
When you want three years from an elder, sometimes it’s really difficult to come up with.
Can you please just take a look at that?
If you can come back to us on what option that could be decided upon that would make it less stressful and less difficult, especially for the elders who want to access some of your programs, if I can get your commitment to look at that.
Yes, we do have that one form. All they need to fill out is that one form, but if we want to look into the other information, we can go to CRA, as this is the one form that is all the person will need to fill out as an application. Thank you. (interpretation) I hope that was understandable.
Ms. Angnakak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I understand the one form, but in that one form, you ask for at least three years worth of financial information.
I guess what I’m doing is that I’m looking more at the elders. Their status doesn’t really change. They’re not going to go out to work all of a sudden and earn $100,000.
Their status remains the same.
Each year, when an elder wants to access housing programs, they always have to go back and do the three years, and some of them have a hard time with that and that’s what I’m asking for.
Can you look at that?
Some of the other government programs don’t ask for that.
If you can commit to looking at what does the government ask for in other programs and services that Nunavummiut can access, can you look at what they ask for?
It’s a lot less than what Housing does.
That’s what I’m looking for.
Yes, I get you now, Ms. Angnakak.
Just so you know what we’re talking about here, we can even provide you a sample form so that you know what kind of form we’re talking about here.
We can give a copy the members at some time.
Did I hear the minister say that he’s going to commit to at least looking at the other programs as well in the government and what their request for financial information is?
Chairman: Thank you, Ms. Angnakak. (interpretation) Is that what she heard?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, I apologize as I didn’t grasp the question at all. I was discussing an issue with one of my officials. Perhaps the member can repeat her question so that I can fully listen to the question, with your permission, Mr. Chairman, as I did partially hear the question, but I didn’t hear (interpretation ends) the last part.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister. Ms. Angnakak, please clarify your question.
What I’m asking of the minister today right now is for his commitment to look at other government programs and services. When you access those government programs and services outside of the Nunavut Housing Corporation, what they want from you when you fill out an application is a lot less information than what… . I’m talking mainly elders here.
It’s a lot less information than what the Nunavut Housing Corporation wants.
I’m just thinking about elders mainly and about how their status really doesn’t change very much, and if you can commit just to look at other services within the government.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you for that clarification. (interpretation ends) Hon. Minister.
Hon. George Kuksuk: The answer is yes.
Ms. Angnakak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the minister for his commitment to that. I look forward to hearing back from the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
The other thing I see in here, I mean obviously it’s kind of your foundation right now, and that is your Comprehensive Long-term Housing Strategy that you have been working on for a long time now. I would like to ask you: what has been the greatest challenge when it comes to the development of this strategy? What’s happening?
Why is it taking so long, and what are some of the challenges that you’ve had to overcome in order to get to where you are today?
This was quite complex to undertake given the fact this territorial government can’t handle the housing shortage alone, especially in looking at the big picture Nunavut-wide, particularly due to (interpretation ends) stakeholders (interpretation) being numerous as an example. NTI is one of the stakeholders amongst others.
We will have to collaborate with the stakeholders in order to resolve this, as this government alone didn’t come up with the (interpretation ends) comprehensive Blueprint for Action on Housing, (interpretation) which is our plan towards this goal.
There are many (interpretation ends) stakeholders (interpretation) involved in this process that we are required to (interpretation ends) consult (interpretation) with to move forward. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
In keeping with that line of thinking, you recently issued a request for proposals for the facilitation and reporting services for the preparation of the blueprint for action for your strategy. It says in your business plan on page NHC-6 at the top, it says here that you expected to award this RFP in January of 2015. I’m wondering: has this RFP been awarded and, if so, who was awarded the RFP?
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Ms. Angnakak. Minister Kuksuk.
This RFP the member is asking about has now closed.
However, we have yet to make the final determination on (interpretation ends) awarding (interpretation) this to any of the tenders. We have received many proposals to date for this RFP.
With the closure date having passed, we have to start the screening, but we haven’t yet decided as to the actual winner of the RFP.
Nonetheless, we expect that we will be able to announce the winner prior to the end of March. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
Ms. Angnakak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can you tell us how many submissions you got for that? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Approximately eight of them applied. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
In keeping in line with the action plan, the action plan will focus on developing more energy-efficient and economical solutions to housing and furthermore, on more affordable housing options. When you speak of options, what kinds of options are you really talking about here?
There are various (interpretation ends) options (interpretation) we can look at in this area as to whether we meet that through research or some other study to look at the ventilation, energy efficiency of the doors or porches, and other variables measurable in the unit, to make it brief, if this is the best method to measure the unit efficiency rating as well as the condition rating to be used for the house and how it will be incorporated.
If the buildings are dilapidated, which is particularly true in the arctic where we experience extreme cold weather, as residents of this extreme environment, how can we ensure more energy-efficient buildings? We have to look at more fuel-efficient furnaces and more energy-efficient lights.
The different technologies are available now, so these types of alternatives that save energy will be researched.
When we’re also thinking about housing in Nunavut, we have often talked about the climate, culture, and how different it is in Nunavut compared to those in the south.
When you’re discussing these kinds of things and coming with new housing methods, have you come up with something that nobody has done yet, that you know is going to be a pilot project, and you’re going to do it for the very first time?
Are there new developments like that that you’re coming up with?
Personally, I haven’t been briefed on that. Perhaps Ms. Kimball can provide a response to the question, Mr. Chairman, if that’s okay with you. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
In terms of housing designs, we are looking at how we can make a more affordable design. We are working back and forth. As we come up with different designs, we have a group that we run it through to do a costing of that to kind of see how we can approve it, looking at the cost elements and the functional elements.
As well, in terms of looking at the whole housing continuum, right now, as we have often said, we’ve got public housing at the very low end and then we’ve got homeownership at the very high end, but we really don’t have that middle ground and that’s where we need to develop the middle ground.
We’re looking at kind of what we’re calling mid-market, to support that mid-market alternative.
Part of what we’re doing is analyzing our client base across Nunavut.
For instance, recent numbers of the rent scale show that 79.6 percent of all tenants in public housing make less than minimum wage on an annual basis.
However, we do have roughly 6 percent that make more than $60,000. How could we get those people who are making $60,000 and over into something other than fully subsidized public housing and maybe go with a fixed rate rent?
We have to look at that in context with the private sector so that we don’t disrupt that.
It’s not as simple as throwing some out there because there are unintended consequences.
That’s why the blueprint is going to have those consultations to figure those things out.
I appreciate your answer, but I think we’re a little off on different things.
What I was thinking more about was energy-efficient, being economical, more like that, when you build a house.
Have you come up with any brand-new developments that maybe you want to pilot?
I see in your business plan that you also work with, I think, a university here somewhere.
I don’t know if that means that you’re coming up with actual plans together or not, but maybe you can elaborate a little bit on that.
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I would like Ms. Kimball to continue to respond to the question. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
As you can see in our annual report, the majority of our utility cost is actually water.
When we look at the water consumption, our rates are actually below world health standards, so that’s a different issue.
In terms of energy efficiency, all of our units that we’re now building, we always make sure that it’s of extremely high energy efficiency rating, more than the minimum standard for sure. Our actual energy consumption has actually been quite good, but we do vet that element of any new designs as we go forward to make sure we’re achieving that.
I’m going to go on.
When I think about affordable housing options, one thing that comes to mind, and I haven’t seen it in your business plan, is the issue with shelters.
I don’t see any mention of that and at one time, I believe and I could be wrong, but I believe the Nunavut Housing Corporation worked with shelters in Iqaluit anyhow and, if so, why did this partnership discontinue?
Is it addressed anywhere in your action plans to do with shelters?
If I understand the member’s question, I believe she is referring to shelters.
This is not part of NHC’s mandate.
It is covered by another department, the Department of Family Services, so shelters are not within our mandate and so we have nothing planned in this area. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
That kind of surprises me because the Nunavut Hosing Corporation is for all Nunavummiut and it’s talking about getting a roof over your head.
That’s what we’re talking about, the basic human need.
I would think that all departments would want to work in partnership with each other when it comes to complex issues like this because, really, this is a complex issue.
What about transitional houses? Sometimes when you’re in a shelter and then the families moving out of the shelter, but cannot go back to their own home.
Is there any kind of discussions with Family Services around this area and, if not, is there any interest of the Nunavut Housing Corporation to work with Family Services to address this area?
Absolutely, we will be involved in reviewing that through (interpretation ends) the Blue Print for Action on Housing (interpretation) where we will look at partnership with other departments, such as Family Services, Health.
Our corporation could work together to review this matter. (interpretation ends) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Let me remind members that we are on operations.
We aren’t dealing with capital estimates and if members can try to focus on the agenda items we are reviewing in order to move forward more smoothly.
I think all of that relates to the blueprint that is in the business plan.
Again in the business plan on NHC-7, it talks about your Inuit Employment Plan and that several beneficiaries have been offered mentoring.
I’m just wondering if you could tell me how many beneficiaries are taking part in this program, where they are located, and what areas of work they’re involved in.
I don’t have that level of detailed information on that, but if you will allow Ms. Kimball to answer that question.
Chairman (interpretation): Let me give her the opportunity.
Ms. Kimball: Thank you Mr. Chairman.
There are two employees.
What we are doing is actually putting employees in the position but at a lower level with a training plan for two years to bring them up to the full scope of that position.
We’ve got one position like that in Cape Dorset and one in Arviat.
It’s in the staff housing area where we will be grooming them so that they can move up through the corporation.
I was wondering if the minister can tell us: do you have any plans to expand that so that more Nunavummiut can participate in that program?
Yes, if there is an interest in other communities, we can expand it.
I see I have a very few seconds.
When we talk about your Inuit Employment Plan, do you have any target goals for that over the next five years or so as an example?
That was perfect timing, down to the second. (interpretation) Well done.
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): I’m sorry for letting you wait, Mr. Chairman.
As I stated earlier, I don’t have that level of information, so I’ll have Ms. Kimball respond if you don’t mind, Mr. Chairman.
We haven’t formalized that in terms of numbers at this point.
What we’re doing is we are actually looking at how each job leads to the next job and what training or education or skill sets would be required to advance.
We are in the process of developing that across the organization. As we get those analyses done, we can better forecast what would be achievable through that time.
We are still in the development stage, but we are working on the initiatives that will get us there.
Before I go to another member, let me remind everyone to put your cellphones and other electronics on the silent mode or shut them off because we can hear them through the sound system.
We are on N-IV-2.
If there are any other comments under that, please raise your hand.
At this time, I do want to recognize Mr. Hickes.
I guess I will start off with a fairly basic one. In the 2011 amendments to the Nunavut Housing Corporation Act, they called for the requirement of the board of directors to establish an audit committee to provide oversight of the corporation’s financial information and other matters.
As of today, who sits on the audit committee and how many meetings has it had since its establishment?
I don’t think the committee deals with day-to-day matters. As to the terms of reference for the committee, I don’t have that level of detail. Perhaps the information I just received from Ms. Kimball, (interpretation ends) all board members are the (interpretation) committee and the entire board dealt with those issues. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
Mr. Hickes, I’m going to give you about a one-minute credit on your time.
I appreciate that. Maybe if the minister could just… .
With the second part of the question, I was wondering: how often does that board meet?
I believe they meet three times per year.
I’ve got a number of questions under this category.
I’m trying to prioritize them in my own head before I run out of time.
With regard to the long-term comprehensive housing and homelessness strategy that was tabled in May of 2013, somewhat to the ten-year action plan that was done along with NTI and the Nunavut Housing Corporation, within the ten-year action plan, there was a cost associated or an estimate associated with what it would cost to fully implement that plan.
Has there been a cost analysis on the long-term comprehensive strategy?
No, we have no information in regard to the approximate cost of that strategy. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
Is that something the department is looking at analyzing?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Yes, I believe so. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
Is there going to be a timeframe associated with that?
The main reason I’m asking is I believe that whenever you put a cost to something, whether you want to call it negotiations or discussions with potential funding stakeholders, it makes it a lot easier if you can put a cost to it.
After the (interpretation ends) blueprint for action plan on housing (interpretation) has been developed, we should know how much it will cost. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
I can see the correlation with the need to get the blueprint done to analyze the cost.
I’m going to take a step back to when I was talking about the Ten-year Inuit Housing Action Plan that was done in conjunction with NTI. It called for an investment of close to $2 billion over a ten-year period and 5,700 new public housing units.
Is NHC and NTI considering making another joint proposal to the federal government for additional and stable housing funding?
To date, NTI hasn’t been consulted. (interpretation ends) We are not in any discussions with NTI at this point.
Mr. Hickes: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Last year when I was asking that question, I had asked if there were continuing talks with NTI at that stage on updating the ten-year housing strategy. At that time, the minister had said that there had not been any discussions with NTI with regard to that.
That was almost a year ago, Mr. Chairman.
I’m just wondering: have there been discussions with NTI to sit down and discuss an updated version of the Ten-year Inuit Housing Action Plan?
I apologize to my colleague for making an error in my response.
It was just in the middle of January that we initiated our discussions with them on the housing issue. (interpretation ends) We have started discussions not too long ago.
In those discussions, like I had asked earlier, was the topic of putting a joint submission into the federal government for stable and more money for housing… ?
The main reason I’m asking that is there has fairly recently been a change in some of the funding availability to non-government entities to access federal dollar funding, if that was a consideration in their discussions.
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Not really, as we haven’t detailed any plans as to this (interpretation ends) joint (interpretation) approach with the federal government. We have to submit a proposal and to date, the discussions on the matter have just commenced.
This will be taken into consideration by both NTI and this government on the housing shortages we face.
Yes, we have started to meet with them. (interpretation ends) That will be discussed with NTI.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister. (interpretation ends) Mr. Hickes, I shall give you another one-minute credit. Go ahead.
Mr. Hickes: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think it might have been a little bit more than that.
When we were talking along with different stakeholders, one of the things that I also brought up last year was the agreement in place with CMHC on funding for O&M dollars. As most members are aware, I’m sure that that’s declining up to 2037 where it becomes zero balance.
Last year, the minister wasn’t really able to give me a clear picture of what type of negotiations are ongoing to reverse some of that funding so that it stays in a positive factor for Nunavut. I was wondering if he has had any discussions with CMHC on that topic.
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I haven’t personally spoken with CMHC on the matter yet. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
I noted last year that it was a little under $24,000 per year to maintain and operate a public housing unit. Now I’m seeing that it’s almost $25,000.
I understand, through some of your previous responses, that any new construction is a lot more energy-efficient and obviously, I commend the corporation on that practice, yet our costs are still going up per unit.
I had a number of concerns last year and I would like to just reiterate that concern. What is the Nunavut Housing Corporation to help offset some of those major operating costs?
Mr. Hickes, for your information, I have just given you an extra three seconds.
If it’s okay with you, Ms. Kimball would like to respond to that question. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
I can tell the member that when we do meet with CMHC, we do have bilateral meetings, one of which is actually scheduled next week.
It is something we raise at each of those meetings. We also bring it up on the PT circuit as well as it was a topic that was raised at the FPT last November.
It’s something that CMHC has made very clear that it’s not something open for discussion.
I believe the term they used was “A deal is a deal.”
Across all the provinces and territories across Canada, there’s a lot of movement in trying to move the federal government’s position on that.