EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
But I still think that there should be some responsibility for that in Ottawa.
Hon. Jack Anawak (interpretation): Like I stated yesterday, I had a meeting with the CMHC Minister.
I was still a Member of Parliament when the issue of housing arose and the responsibility was going to be gradually handed over. From then on I did object more than once here and in the House of Commons, that there was no housing, no new money.
We are going to talk to DIAND or the department of Health and Social Services, and the Minister has assured me that he would give me support when we go looking for additional dollars from the various departments, to work on social housing.
I have two people on my list and then we'll take a break.
I am waiting for approval of the Estimates because the people from my community are stuck right now while we are working on them.
If you have clarifications and so on we are going to have four years to digest all this information.
I would like to move ahead with the approval of these Main Estimates and of course I will have questions when the appropriate time comes, but I will keep them brief.
I just wanted to make that statement.
Chairperson (interpretation): That was just a comment.
We have oral questions again tomorrow, when we can ask those questions.
I would like to get back to the Main Estimates to deal with them line by line.
I am sure there will be every opportunity to ask your questions.
I would like to go ahead with the Main Estimates and go line by line.
That was just a comment.
Since I don’t have any more names on my list, let's go back to 7-9.
Total operations & maintenance 33 million, 243 thousand, agreed?
Before we take a break I would like to apologize to Mr. Tootoo for making inappropriate comments.
We'll take a ten or fifteen minute break
>>Committee recessed from 3.06 to 3.29 pm
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you please be seated and we will start.
Continuing line by line we are on 7 - 10.
For housing construction in Baffin, total expenditures 646 thousand.
Chairperson (interpretation): Agreed. 7 - 10, agreed.
Keewatin, 1 million 245 thousand, agreed?
Kitikmeot, turn the page.
Kitikmeot total 1 million 9 thousand.
Mr. Puqiqnak (interpretation): There is no budget for fuel.
Is that just when it says fuel….
Chairperson Yes that is for … total…Mr. Puqiqnak.
Kitikmeot total, 1 million 9 thousand.
I guess that we had agreed on the individual totals, I just have a question on the overall total, should I ask that now or when we get to it?
Chairperson (interpretation): Yes, we will go down to it, to the whole Nunavut total, you may ask your question then.
Kitikmeot total 1 million 9 thousand, agreed?
Nunavut total 16 million 160 thousand.
Chairperson (interpretation): Housing total capital 19 million, 60 thousand.
Mr. Chairman on the capital for housing, I just want to ask the Minister how this reflects on previous year's capital delivery throughout Nunavut.
Hon. Jack Anawak (interpretation): Yes, when the budget was set for housing this year is 20 million dollars shorter than the previous years.
Then the Minister is saying it is half of the capital that housing had last year.
I just wonder, as housing was said to be a priority in most members campaigns, and also a priority of this government, as to why it has taken such as hit.
A 50% reduction for something that should be and has been said to be a priority for this government.
Mr. Chairman the Minister took the first question to mean historically what was spent and it is about 20 million less than what the GNWT historically spent on housing.
But through the development of the budget and the development of the framework budget, there were probably about 10 - 15 million dollars worth of housing dollars that had to be reduced, as other departments had to be reduced with similar type priorities, to balance with the resources that were available to the government.
Chairperson (interpretation): Does that answer your question Mr. Tootoo, or would you like to ask another question.
I will try and clarify.
What the Deputy Minister is saying is that there is a 10 - 15 million dollar reduction in capital from your first budget that was put forward.
Is that what the Deputy Minister is saying?
Mr. Ferris: Mr. Chairman, just give me one second and I will give you the information.
Perhaps Mr. Chairman you could go on with another question, I just have to get another binder but I do have the exact number that the reduction was, I just don't have it in this binder.
Chairperson: Thank you Mr. Ferris, Mr. Puqiqnak.
I would like to ask a question, we are under the Kitikmeot section right now and one of my constituencies is concerned about housing.
In 99/2000, there is no budget slated for Taloyoak, I wonder why there is no budget slated for Taloyoak for this year.
Hon. Jack Anawak (interpretation): Yes, I apologize, in respect to the issue we just discussed.
These programs are just continuing from the previous year, but here at the bottom we are talking about 15 million 900 thousand, that's for capital programs which will be allotted to the communities.
The programs and projects that we were talking about are just continuing from the GNWT but the new money is 15 million 960 thousand.
Mr. Ferris do you have a comment.
Mr. Ferris: Mr. Chairman in answer to the dollars that were reduced out of where the starting point was this year, there was 8 million 750 thousand dollars, that were reduced in the housing accounts as part of the framework budget exercise.
Chairperson (interpretation): Does that answer your question, Mr. Puqiqnak.
Mr. Puqiqnak (interpretation): In regards to the Ministers' comment. 15 million 960 thousand, for example I had asked a question to this effect a couple of days ago about Taloyoak.
I asked the Minister of Sustainable Development when you were touring the communities, the 15 million dollars, if you are going to be allotting some funds to Taloyoak.
For example they want to build a 12-plex in Taloyoak, will they be receiving funds from this 15 million dollars, because there is none slated for Taloyoak from this capital program of 15 million dollars.
Will Taloyoak get part of this money?
Hon. Jack Anawak (interpretation): Yes, as I have stated before, the ones that we just discussed are already existing programs.
Yes, if we are going to be working with the community, yes they will get some funding from that.
A couple of brief questions.
When the Housing Corporation is determining how they put retrofits in communities, and looking at this one, 100% of the retrofits for this year went into two communities.
The Baker Lake Housing Association was taken over by the Hamlet Council.
One of the conditions of taking it over was that they do condition ratings on all the units and there are roughly 285 public housing units.
The Hamlet did a condition rating and roughly 40 - 50 units were below 50%.
How does the Corporation, or Housing, determine what retrofits go into a community and what condition does a house have to be in before the Housing Corporation will look at it before going into retrofitting?
Mr. Ferris: Mr. Chairman, my understanding is that, based on the assessment that is done by the local authority, we also have the ability of having Public Works now, under the new regime, confirm some of that information, those units are selected on the basis of core need.
There are various things that they would look at related to the retrofit, the plumbing in the unit, the electrical service and so on.
I could provide a more detailed process to the member, but I don't have that entire file with me this afternoon.
Could you please shut off your microphone every time you are finished speaking.
Mr. Chairman, in regards to the overall reduction in the budget for housing.
Can the Minister tell us what the impact is on maintenance, reduction in maintenance costs, for the LHO's, the local housing organizations, the impact that it will have on those associations?
The maintenance will be maintained through the O & M, so it doesn't affect the maintenance.
Mr. Chairman, I know the Minister indicated that it is through the O & M so there shouldn't be any effect.
Can the Minister tell me whether there is a decrease, whether it is under the O & M or whatever other category, for the maintenance on housing.
Is there a decrease this year as opposed to last year?
Hon. Jack Anawak: No, there shouldn't be, because we also have to take a look at the 1 million that has to be distributed throughout the Housing Associations.
So there shouldn't be any decrease in the O & M grants to Housing Associations.
I could be mistaken on this but I believe that I did see some figures and talked to some of the Housing Association people, and in some cases there were reductions, I believe, and I could be mistaken, of 50 thousand, 100 thousand dollars, to various LHO's.
So is the Minister saying, if this is the case, that this 1 million dollars that we have now will be used to, if there is a reduction, to bring these maintenance budgets back up to par?
Can the Minister commit to that?
Mr. Ferris: Mr. Chairman, Thank you.
That would be one of the areas that we would be looking at using the additional dollars.
As was indicated earlier there were some reductions made in the past by the GNWT and we have been contacted by two or three of the local housing organizations that have identified that.
The Minister has committed to have our housing people review those discrepancies in their funding and see whether there is any opportunity to equalize some of that lost revenue.
The figures that we are using right now simply flow out of what the GNWT was paying them as of March 31st last year.
There are a few areas that we have to look at individually and some of this million dollars would be used where there has been a cut, to bring it back to a level where we are properly maintaining the unit, because if we don't maintain the units then the costs become even greater because the capital costs of repairing and replacing them is more than putting good maintenance into them.
That's my point exactly and I appreciate the concern the Minister is demonstrating towards this critical issue.
I apologize for making inappropriate remarks at times.
I apologize too if I made any inappropriate remarks, we can leave that behind us.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask on the various housing programs, the 15 million 960 thousand, if the Minister has that broken down by region as to what the regions will be receiving?
As I understand that is the only new capital that's going to be delivered through housing this year, so I would like to know if they have a regional breakdown for this year.
Mr. Ferris: Mr. Chairman, I do have a regional breakdown, just let me check with Mr. Rafter to see whether we have a running total on the regional breakdown.
I have it by program just let me see if we have it on one of these documents.
Chairperson (interpretation): He is still looking for his document I guess.
Mr. Ferris: Mr. Chairman sorry for the delay, there are too many pieces of paper here, that's why there are no trees left in this part of the country.
In terms of the breakdown of the capital, Kitikmeot is slated to get 5 million 45 thousand, Kivalliq, 5 million 235 thousand, Baffin 8 million 708 thousand.
Those totals will total the 19 million, 60 and the only way we could arrive at the exact amount is to take those few projects that are listed on the Main Estimates as the carryover on the bottom lines.
Those figures I have just given include the Main Estimate sheet with the carryover amounts.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the Minister if he could provide us with a copy of the regional breakdown of new capital for the regions.
I would like to know if he could provide that for us.
Also I would like to know if he could provide a further breakdown through the programs that those dollars are going to be put towards.
Hon. Jack Anawak: Yes, we will provide the members with a copy of that but we will also be providing the members with the capital budget and the O & M for the whole Housing Corporation as well.
Thank you Minister.
The reason that I am asking is that I think it is important for the members to take it back home with them and say, "this is the housing dollars that we are going to get this year".
That they have something to take home and be able to clearly indicate what new dollars they will have to deliver in their communities.
I was going to ask a question in regards to how much capital is going to be slated for the Baffin region but it has already been answered.
So therefore I have no further questions as long as Pond Inlet will be included.
Chairperson (interpretation): That was more of a comment.
Yes we’ll go on housing, total Capital 19 million 60 thousand, are you agreed.
I have to now, I realize, talking on that question the Member from Arviat raised earlier, on the finances going to maintenance not to communities.
Just wondering, I know the whole formula that’s used for financing the Associations.
If the Department's looking at reviewing that formula, I know in the past there have been some problems with it, if they're going to be reviewing it and looking at possible changes to rectify some of the problems that were there.
Hon. Jack Anawak: (interpretation): Yes, we will review the issues that have caused some problems, so we can improve and we’ll look into it.
Chairperson (interpretation): Does that answer your question.
Housing total Capital 19 million 60 thousand, Mr. Puqiqnak.
Mr. Puqiqnak (interpretation): For the Kitikmeot residents, in the previous Government some of the budget that was allotted to Kitikmeot was extreme in both ways, one of the communities high, more money than other communities, so they were not allotting their funds evenly to the communities.
We felt they were not allotting the funds evenly, so I feel that the Government of Nunavut should contribute the funds evenly to Nunavut Communities.
The Government has stated that they would do away with the regions and they would look at the Nunavut Government as a whole.
The previous Government, for example Taloyoak is not included, Gjoa Haven gets 93 thousand and Kugluktuk gets 545 thousand, Cambridge Bay 185 thousand, so these communities in the Kitikmeot funds that are being allotted are not equal.
I don’t wish to see the Department contributing or allotting funds unevenly, so therefore I’m urging your Department to contribute funds more evenly to the Communities.
Hon. Jack Anawak (interpretation): Yes, in Kitikmeot the 1 million 9 thousand was already existing and that just carries over.
We will focus on Nunavut as a whole but budget was from the previous year.
Chairperson: Mr. Puqiqnak
Mr. Puqiqnak (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Chairman, this is the first time that Nunavut Government is starting to deal with main budget estimates.
GNWT had quite a huge responsibility prior to Nunavut becoming real.
Some of their funds in the main estimates are also including GNWT previous expenditures, so I did not expect to see any allotted for Housing.
At least now I see 19 million dollars is allotted for capital on housing, I didn’t even expect to see funds on housing, but I’m very glad to see at least you got some funds here.
Let’s try and notice that the GNWT had a huge task with the whole Territory, but this is now Nunavut.
Let’s realize that GNWT had to use a lot more funds, but this is the first time that the Nunavut Government had actually dealt with the main estimates from the year 1999 to 2000, after this year is over we’ll have a better idea on the budget estimates.
Chairperson (interpretation): I’m sorry let’s go back to 7-9 total capital $19 million 60 thousand.
All my questions, I almost forgot to ask this one in the budget address, they’ve talked about nearly 20 million for Social Housing, I’m just wondering if this 19 million is the same dollars, if it’s not an addition.
Chairperson (interpretation): I have no more people on my list, the total capital $ 19million 60thousand do you agree.
Agreed. The total expenditures are $ 52 million 303 thousand are you agreed. Agreed.
In respect to transportation, the operations and maintenance, the total in maintenance $ 15 million 867 thousand, are you agreed. Agreed.
Open the page to 7-13 in respect to transportation, the detail of capital in respect to Baffin Region total is $ 5million 91thousand, do you agreed.
In regards to the Capital for transportation, I believe this includes access roads and I know that is a priority with this Department.
With the GNWT it was not such a high priority because they had access over in the West by roads.
I’m wondering Mr. Chairman, will access roads become a high priority for the department in looking at their future Capital.
Hon. Jack Anawak: I just wondered if the Member might elaborate a little more on the description of an access road.
Mr. Chairman, I believe here, Soper River or one access over river road that was previously mentioned in other capital reports and I know there are other access roads in a lot of the communities that people are looking to get for hunting and fishing access.
I’m just wondering does that clarify, what I mean by access roads.
Hon. Jack Anawak: Yes, we will continue the program because the other area, in terms of access roads, that also brings in forms of economic development is tourism, so we will continue and then the Minister of Sustainable Development can pay for it, but we will continue.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Iqaqrialu
In respect to the Capital that was set for Clyde River.
I would like to bring these up based on the details.
I used to be a Hamlet councillor and we dealt with the Capital plan planning exercise while we were still under GNWT.
We had an agreement with the GNWT and I will bring these to light.
Especially one detail just to make it clear, the construction of the community break water.
Chairperson: (interpretation): Mr. Iqaqrialu, you can raise the question you have under another area.
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): No it’s in there, I’m really in the detail
Chairperson (interpretation): I’m sorry the detail you're talking about is not in there, maybe you can ask why it’s not there, I just want you to realize that you may know about the issue.
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): Thank you Mr. chairman.
We wanted to get in to detailed capital for the Baffin Region or are we not on this issue.
Chairperson (interpretation): Yes, we are but we're not talking about details not listed, we're dealing with the detailed capital.
I’m trying to talk about the money allotted, if you would let me finish please I would really thank you very much.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Iqaqrialu perhaps when you're not holding up the other members.
Maybe if you ask the questions you’ll get the proper responses.
Please don’t read the whole part.
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Chairman, I was just trying to clarify an issue.
This years' allotment through the GNWT, through an agreement the 250 thousand amount was agreed to by the GNWT, we had an agreement with the GNWT to construct the community break water, that was the amount agreed to but in between the transition from the GNWT to the Government of Nunavut, the figure was broken down to 50 thousand and that caused concerns and problems.
When it gets within the detailed capital in the Baffin region they have allotted 175 thousand dollars.
I’m wondering why they have cut the figure from 250 thousand, that was promised by the GNWT and now it’s 170 thousand.
The reason why I wanted to talk about this was because it would cause a problem.
The agreement we had already with the GNWT was transferred to the Government of the Nunavut to be dealt with and it was 250 thousand at that time.
Well we had an agreement for the Capital plan with the GNWT but it’s now 175 thousand, so there’s 75 thousand dollar discrepancy and that’s not clear.
I think it has to be properly planned if that’s the way the Government is going to deal with it or I’m not sure whether the GNWT stuck it up or I guess I have other concerns as well but I’ll stop at this point Mr. Chairman.
I just wanted to ask why and thank you Mr. Chairman for allowing me to finish.
Yes, the 175 thousand was transferred from the GNWT.
They had a contract for 175 thousand dollars, although the community had asked for 250 thousand dollars and it was already agreed to but the contract has gone ahead and the succession of the contract was set at 175 thousand dollars and that’s what I’ve been told.
Yes, we did not get the 250 thousand, we got the contract for 250 thousand dollars and it wasn’t 175 thousand dollars.
So it’s seems like we’ve been misled maybe the letter has misled us, I don’t think it was an intentional misleading statement but if we looked at the first part which the government of Nunavut has given to them.
It was only 50 thousand listed, when it was given to them but those of us in the community who had an agreement with the GNWT…
Chairperson: (interpretation): Mr. Iqaqrialu, perhaps it was dealt with last year or if they proceeded with the construction last year maybe this is the left over of the capital maybe that’s why he is misunderstanding it.
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): No Mr. Chairman, we’ve got an agreement over five years and you are supposed to honour your agreements now we’ve only had our first year of operation in respect to the break water.
We were supposed to follow it for five years and we had an agreement through the government.
I’m getting kind of sweaty here, Thank you Mr. Chairman.
I’m sorry, I apologize, but I had just heard that it was 175 thousand dollars.
Yes they requested 250 thousand, but the 175 thousand was allotted this year.
But I think you have to be aware that we were dealing with the main estimates.
There are a lot of things on the community wish list, which were not placed here when we were looking at a five-year plan for all of the communities.
Perhaps in trying to be equal to the communities, the way we deal with these, but regarding his reference to the agreement, perhaps I could ask to have a meeting with him in his home community and we can get to the bottom of the matter.
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Chairman, I want to know how long is the plan deferred to construct the community breakwater.
I would like to understand that perhaps I could state now, for the five years that we’ve planned to construct the breakwater the funding has been cut.
Now are we to assume that we will have to deal with the community breakwater over 7 years in order to meet the rest of the construction?
Perhaps Mr. Anawak, the Minister of Transportation did state that he wanted to have a meeting with me and I’m sure that will succeed.
Perhaps if we come to an understanding over these details and I really do want to finish and deal with the agreement of the detail capital.
Hon. Jack Anawak (interpretation): : Thank you Mr. Chairman.
Perhaps in order to make him understand more clearly we'll get Mike Ferris to comment.
Mr. Ferris: Mr. Chairman, there were several communities that were in the same area as Clyde River, where in the five year plan there were projects that were planned for either docks or access roads, and those are put into the annual plan and each year there is a contribution agreement that is entered into, or a project agreement for specific dollars to flow that year.
When we applied the criteria that we had to, in doing the budget, the 250 thousand dollars for this year, because there wasn’t a signed contract in place, although there was this five year plan where they were hoping if they could identify the dollars that over the next five years they would build this wharf.
That, like in other communities, hadn’t been signed off.
What this money is simply doing is finishing off work that was started in the contract year last year and so in the initial budget it looked like 50 thousand needed to finish it off.
There is actually more work to be done and there is 125 thousand that came as carry-over, which again is only the 44 cent dollars.
So there should have been twice that amount but we only got, through the division of assets and liabilities, 44 cent dollars.