EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Chairman: Thank you. Next page is 17.
Total Community Programs.
Not Previously Authorized. $78,000.
Chairman: Thank you. Sport Nunavut. Total Sport Nunavut.
Not Previously Authorized. $81,000.
Total Department. $606,000.
Next page is 18.
Not Previously Authorized. $237,000.
Total Policy and Planning.
Not Previously Authorized. $79,000.
Corporate Services. Total Corporate Services.
Not Previously Authorized. $205,000.
Next page is 19.
Income Support. Total Income Support.
Not Previously Authorized. $109,000.
Adult Learning and Post Secondary Services. Total Adult Learning and Post Secondary Services.
Not Previously Authorized. $1,412,000.
Next page is 20.
Career and Early Childhood Services. Total Career and Early Childhood Services.
Not Previously Authorized. $518,000. Agreed?
Just for clarification purposes, Career and Early Childhood Services, that’s for mostly kindergarten and day care services?
Hon. Louis Tapardjuk (interpretation): Perhaps the Minister of Education can respond to that question.
I wonder if the member could just rephrase that question for me.
Chairman: Rephrase your question to the minister, Mr. Arvaluk.
Career and Early Childhood Services, does it mean it’s for children in kindergarten or is it also for day cares?
It doesn’t exactly say what it’s geared towards.
Chairman (interpretation). Thank you, Mr. Arvaluk.
The member is correct, that is for our school system, it’s for the different directors within the Department of Education and in this case, it’s the Early Learning and Childcare Program that includes the employees within that secretariat or department within the Department of Education.
Chairman: Thank you, Minister Picco. (interpretation) Are you finished, Mr. Arvaluk?
(interpretation ends) We’re on Total Career and Early Childhood Services.
Not Previously Authorized. $518,000.
Curriculum and School Services. Total Curriculum and School Services. $504,000.
Maybe the Finance Minister can refresh my memory. Those items that were not previously authorized are not proportionate in the increase.
Is that because they had enough money already in that particular division? Some require more in terms of percentage, but others are less.
Can you tell me what the rationale is behind having differences in proportions?
The percentages are based on the number of employees in the department or division.
The number of employees in each department is used to set the percentages listed here, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Arvaluk (interpretation): With respect to the number of employees, is this percentage set on the actual number of employees within the department or is it based on the number of PYs listed for that department? Which figures are used to make the estimates?
Hon. Louis Tapardjuk (interpretation): Yes, these figures are based on the number of employees in 2007-08.
Additionally, these figures were used during the collective bargaining process and they are for employees of the government to date.
As well, there are some estimates included in these figures and they roughly represent the total number of employees who worked for the GN on that date.
We incurred costs for the total number of employees after the collective agreement was completed that we had to pay.
Prior to the collective agreement being signed, an estimate of the numbers of employees who had worked for the GN was put into this document and these figures were the ones followed, Mr. Chairman.
We’re on (interpretation ends) Education.
Chairman (interpretation): We now have a quorum. (interpretation ends) We’re on Education.
Total School Operations. $3,699,000.
Total Department. $6,763,000.
Page 21.
I’m not sure as to whom to pose this question to, but I’m sure that the minister in question will know who should respond.
With respect to the funds we appropriate for the Department of Health, we expend a huge amount of funds to deliver health services in Nunavut.
In our community of Pond Inlet, we no longer have a resident doctor. We were extremely lucky to have had a doctor who resided in our community for several years and wanted to remain up there. We also know that in Rankin Inlet, doctors are on a rotational basis for all of Kivalliq where they spend an allotted period in the community, not to become a resident doctor.
Additionally, we were informed that we are always short of nurses here in Nunavut, so we end up using agency nurses. How extreme is our shortfall? What developments have occurred to meet this challenge in areas such as the Nursing Program?
Are the numbers of students increasing? Are they succeeding in their courses? Additionally, I would like to know how many students have now graduated from this program and are now working as nurses.
Hon. Louis Tapardjuk (interpretation): With respect to his questions, I don’t have any pertinent information on hand for the member. With regards to the Nursing Program and whether the graduates have been successful in being placed in nursing positions, perhaps the Minister of Health and Social Services is in a better position to answer that question.
We’re on Health and Social Services’ Directorate. (interpretation) This question seems largely irrelevant to what we are discussing right now and it may be more appropriate to ask that question when we reach the page identifying Public Health, Mr. Arvaluk.
(interpretation ends) Health and Social Services. Directorate.
Not Previously Authorized. $1,093,000.
Specifically on Directorate, I’m not sure what “Directorate” means.
These are the directors in the different divisions of Health which has been totalling about $24 million just to order people around?
What does the Directorate consist of mostly? What kind of workers are these people?
Hon. Louis Tapardjuk (interpretation): We currently don’t have an existing business plan and we have no information with regards to that question.
I will ask Mr. Ma to respond and see if we properly understood the context of your question.
Typically, when we go through the main estimates or the budget process, that description of what Directorate is and other revisions within a particular department would be described.
I’m going on my memory, obviously, I don’t have the main estimates with me, but typically for most departments, the Directorate would be the deputy minister’s office and all the support and services that the deputy minister’s office would provide.
Obviously, this is something of importance to the member, I will get that particular description and I will provide it to the member after we’re done here.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Ma. (interpretation) Are you finished, Mr. Arvaluk?
(interpretation ends) We’re on Health and Social Services.
Total Social Services.
Not Previously Authorized. $414,000.
Chairman: Public Health.
Total Public Health.
Yes, that particular question I wanted to ask the Minister of Health: how is that Nursing Program doing?
How many are we graduating?
Are we successful?
I’m very worried that Public Health will continue to deteriorate if we don’t have a good program.
Can he assure me today that we have a good Nursing Program and that we are graduating in the speed that we expected?
Chairman: Mr. Ma.
I probably can’t answer as well as the new Minister of Health and Social Services, but I do vaguely remember some facts and hopefully I’m correct in what I’m about to say.
My memory is that there are four or five recent nursing graduates. I think four of them were Inuit and one was a non-beneficiary, and that’s I think as of last year.
My memory is that there are currently eight students at the Nunavut Arctic College.
I forgot the second part of Mr. Arvaluk’s question.
I believe we are. What I can do, on behalf of the Department of Health and Social Services, is to provide the actual information again to you after we’re done here today.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Ma. (interpretation) I think the minister would like to add to that.
As of now, we have 18 graduates and 50 percent of those graduates are Inuit.
So we will make sure that we will have a job open for them at the end of their term.
I had asked my staff this morning to update me a bit more on those training programs on nursing.
Up to now, there are 18 graduates and nine of them are Inuit.
Chairman: Thank you, Minister Akesuk. (interpretation) Are you finished, Mr. Arvaluk?
Not Previously Authorized. $306,000.
Next page is 22.
Total Treatment.
Not Previously Authorized. $6,911,000.
Total Health Insurance Programs.
Not Previously Authorized. $1,243,000.
Total Department. $9,967,000.
Next page is 23.
Total Corporate Management.
Not Previously Authorized. $278,000.
Total Program Management.
Not Previously Authorized. $732,000.
Total Department. $1,010,000.
Next page is 24.
Not Previously Authorized. $460,000.
Chairman: Community Support.
Total Community Support.
Special Warrants. $500,000.
Not Previously Authorized. $328,000. Agreed?
This is not a substantial increase at all.
Are these monies being given to the hamlet councils?
For example, when the collective agreement was negotiated, there was an amount of $328,000 to reflect the increased costs of compensation and benefits that will be included in the $54 million, which is quite minuscule.
Do you give this amount to the hamlets?
Are the hamlets part of the agreement or why do we have to give them an additional amount when they’re not members?
I think I understood what the member is asking.
The amount for the $300,000 odd for compensation does reflect the recent increase in the new NEU Collective Agreement and all these associated benefits that come with that.
How we calculate that within each particular division of a department is based upon the number of employees and the wage envelope. We took whatever the percentage increase was and all of these other things, did the calculation, and basically gave them the amount of money we felt that they were going to need for the rest of the fiscal year.
I think what may be causing some confusion is the reference to the Special Warrant and that was to provide some O&M costs to deal with the Pangnirtung situation.
The Special Warrant is clear, that’s for “Pangnirtung during the flooding of the Duval River.”
Is this community support, is that a contribution to the hamlets, or is it somewhere else?
If it’s not hamlets, then what I’m confused about is Community Support is for $54 million and Government Services is for $63 million, just below that.
So that’s over $100 million to look after hamlets?
Hon. Louis Tapardjuk (interpretation): Yes, this is under Corporate Services, but I don’t have the departmental information.
Perhaps Minister Brown can clarify this for you, but according to our understanding, the Department of Community and Government Services is structured that way.
The Minister responsible for CGS can respond better than I can, Mr. Chairman.
We’re on Community Support. (interpretation) Minister Brown, would you like to respond?
These monies are directed towards our CGS support staff.
This is for our employees.
Mr. Arvaluk, are you finished?
Mr. Arvaluk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) But $54,776,000 is not just for staff only. Is that for part of the contribution to the hamlets, too, and that only a small portion of it is for CGS staff only?
They’re not directed towards the hamlet councils, they’re for the department’s support services.
Chairman: Thank you, Minister Brown. (interpretation) Are you finished, Mr. Arvaluk?
(interpretation ends) We’re on page 24.
We’re on Community Support.
Not Previously Authorized. $328,000.
Not Previously Authorized. $7,231,000.
Next page is Community and Government Services.
Total Protection Services.
Not Previously Authorized. $152,000.
Not Previously Authorized. $1,044,000.
Not Previously Authorized. $9,215,000.
Next page is 26.
Not Previously Authorized. $277,000.
Not Previously Authorized. $465,000.
Not Previously Authorized. $320,000.
Total Department. $1,062,000.
Next page is 27.
Total Corporation.
Not Previously Authorized. $5,115,000.
Total Corporation. $5,115,000.
Operations and Maintenance Appropriation. $43,005,000.
Go to Bill 39 in your legislation binder.
Bill 39, Supplementary Appropriation (Operations and Maintenance) Act, No. 2, 2008-2009.
Chairman: Go to page 2 of your Bill 39.
Total Operations and Maintenance. $43,005,000.
Chairman: Total Supplementary Appropriation. $43,005,000.
Chairman: Do members agree to Bill 39 as a whole?
Do members agree that pursuant to Rule 62(2) that Bill 39 can immediately be placed on the Orders of the Day for third reading?
Thank you, Minister and Mr. Ma, for your patience and your answers.
I would now like to ask Minister Brown, responsible for CGS, to make her opening remarks on Tabled Document 216 – 2(4).
Thank you, Committee Members.
The previous contract was not extended for Baffin and there were no existing contracts for Kivalliq or the Kitikmeot.
In an ongoing effort to ensure open, fair, and transparent contracting practices, Health and Social Services decided not to extend the current contracts and go out to open market competitions for medical travel.
The RFP was issued in October of 2007 for medical travel. Contracts were awarded to the various airlines based on the evaluation criteria contained within the RFP document.
Chairman: Sorry, Minister Brown, we don’t have a copy of your opening remarks, so we will break for the next five minutes or so.
>>Committee recessed at 17:03 and resumed at 17:21
We will proceed with our proceedings this afternoon. We will now proceed to Tabled Document 216 – 2(4).
I’ll ask the mover to brief the committee on Tabled Document 216 – 2(4).
Does the mover have any opening comments?
I have a short one.
Mr. Chairman, when we were dealing with the issue of RFPs this winter, some of the factors that were spouted included better control over financial expenditures. The government stated that there was going to be an improvement in regard to the contracts that they wanted to finalize in the regions.
As an example, in the Keewatin area, they didn’t have a medical contract for several years and the airlines ended up sharing the passengers.
The government stated to the Legislative Assembly that if they’re going to be doing an evaluation of any contracts, they were going to consider all of the economic impacts on businesses out there.
For example, if there was a change in the airline awarded the contract, it would have a negative economic impact because the government doesn’t have a transportation policy.
The medical contracts have a big effect on the economy of Nunavut.
If there’s a sudden change in the awarding of the medical contract, it has a negative impact on the airlines and includes other issues, such as competitiveness of the airlines.
So we asked the minister to carefully consider all of the impacts when conducting an evaluation.
We would like to hear from the government whether they have met their targets and what impacts it had on the economy of Nunavut as a whole and the airlines.
That was what I wanted to comment on.
Please keep in mind the caution I put out earlier with respect to this matter.
I would like to ask Minister Brown if she would like to bring her officials to the witness table.
Yes, I would like to have my officials with me at the witness table.
Chairman: Sergeant-at-Arms, bring the witnesses in to the table.
On my left is my Deputy Minister, David Akeeagok, and on my right, the Director for Contracting and Procurement, Mr. Mike McCullock.
I do want to make a general statement because I think it is a very important document that we have in front of us, the standing offer agreement, as well as some background information that we have.
There are a number of questions that will be put forth by my colleagues and myself.
In terms of the services itself, I think the Minister of Government Services should agree with my assessment that in view of the fact that the Government of Nunavut has no transportation policy, that the medical travel policy is the one that is really guiding the transportation policy, particularly with airline services in Nunavut.
Without that, I think our general airline passenger services would be in a very different situation.
So it is important that the minister clearly explain to this committee and Nunavummiut because we’re not just a group of a few people here, we are Nunavummiut representing all communities in Nunavut.
Transportation is very important and economic impacts do happen when evaluations and assessments are not clearly done.
My general statement is that I’m not satisfied that the assessments that were assumed to have been carried out in certain contracts awarded to a number of airlines is given to certain airlines.
So therefore, Mr. Chairman, I will be asking specific questions as to whether or not the minister is satisfied with the service to date and whether or not this current arrangement with the medical travel contract with various airlines is really working for the benefit of Nunavummiut and for certain communities to and from southern points.
So it will be the minister’s responsibility to answer those questions fairly and accurately, and to ensure that corrective measures be taken if possible.
I just have a couple of very short comments on medical travel and this contract in particular.
The Department of Health regional offices in Rankin Inlet have known for many years the serious issues that people have with medical travel out of Baker Lake, especially to Winnipeg.
Most of the time, a person gets on a plane in Baker Lake at 8:00 in the morning and finally gets to Winnipeg at two o’clock, six hours, and that’s after three, sometimes four stops.
Sometimes a patient trying to get home from Winnipeg, especially after a serious operation, gets on a plane in Winnipeg and takes up to three different aircraft just to get home to Baker Lake from Winnipeg.
In a lot of cases, these are elders who have just had very serious operations. They take over six hours to get home from Winnipeg and use three different aircraft, the same carrier with three different aircraft, getting off the plane in Churchill, their luggage comes off, it gets transferred to up to three different aircraft just to get home to Baker Lake.
On the newer contractor that’s getting some of the medical travel out of Baker Lake, if a patient is put on that flight in Baker Lake, ends up in Rankin Inlet and sits there for a number of hours waiting for the aircraft to get back to Rankin Inlet from farther north, and then finally heads down to Winnipeg, in every case, this is a medical patient.
Some of them are very sick and they end up sitting at the Rankin Inlet Airport with no services and no help from the department, and they end up sitting in Rankin Inlet at the terminal.
And the Department of Health has known that for many years and yet, they award contracts that don’t do anything at all to address those issues.
Mr. Chairman, I think it’s important also that, if time permits, the Health officials should also be prepared to assist the Minister of Government Services because, by and large, they do administer the medical travel contracts.
I don’t believe that CGS will be able to provide the nature and the policy aspects of this contract.
So therefore, I can understand why CGS is being asked to sit on the witness table, but a lot of it has to do with medical people that take responsibility for decisions daily for the patients.
The reason I’m saying, Mr. Chairman, is because the heart...
Chairman: I’m sorry, Mr. Curley.
We have no quorum right now.
We have quorum now.
Mr. Curley: The reason I’m saying the issues that I raised is not only are our patients, like my colleague just indicated, elders are not only sick, ill, or have just come out of very serious operations, where they shouldn’t be lugged around like luggage, most of the time, their hearts are bleeding and really, it has become a very difficult situation for those of us in the riding to see why the government continues to operate the way it is.
Mr. Chairman, my first question will start with the general financial areas.
The first one is the introduction to the GN’s RFP for medical travel on scheduled airlines indicates that the government’s expenditures in this area increased by approximately 43 percent between the 2003-04 fiscal year and the 2006-07 fiscal year.
In 2006-07, the government spent $25,841,296.
How much did the GN spend in 2007-08 and approximately how much has it spent to date in 2008-09?
That’s a very excellent question, but I believe that it should be directed to the Department of Health and Social Services.
I think that department can respond to your question because we only deal with the processing aspects of this service.
Perhaps (interpretation ends) the Minister of Health and Social Services (interpretation) can respond to that question.
I don’t have the information handy. Perhaps we could have one of my officials sit at the witness table to provide answers to questions with respect to our department.
As I stated, we don’t have the information readily available at this time.
With respect to questions stemming from this document, I would prefer if he would give us the page numbers so that we know which item he is referring to and see if we can respond.
I would like members to identify the page numbers wherever possible.
We can probably have one of the officials respond if it’s okay with the members to have the Minister of Health and Social Services sit at the witness table.
I’m asking the committee members.
If I was clear, all the questions coming out of the documents that are in here or if it’s coming from here, I would like to see which page it is before I get our staff.
I was thinking that Mr. Campbell would sit down there with Ms. Brown as the document we’re dealing with is a CGS document.
If we have to, maybe our deputy could sit down there along with Ms. Brown as the document is from CG&S.
I think that there’s a question from Mr. Curley. (interpretation) Maybe you can respond to the minister.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, it’s pretty hard to respond to a question when a question has not been raised.
As I stated earlier, I believe that the officials from the Department of Health should be at the witness table.
As well, the minister is already here and I don’t think it’s necessary to have him sit at the table.
All he has to do is direct the question to one of his staff and they can respond.
We have the Deputy Minister of Health and Social Services here, so I think that it would be appropriate if he would sit up at the witness table. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
Chairman: Does the committee agree?
Chairman (interpretation): The deputy minister will go to the witness table.
Let the records show that Alex Campbell is at the witness table. Alex, welcome.
Mr. Curley, maybe you can rephrase or ask your questions again. I will allow you to rephrase what you asked before.
First of all, we want to start with some of the impacts of the finances of the GN. The introduction to the GN’s RFP for medical on scheduled airlines indicates that the government’s expenditures in this area increased by approximately 43 percent between the 2003-04 fiscal year and the 2006-07 fiscal year.
I will have Alex Campbell, the Deputy Minister of Health and Social Services, respond.
Mr. Campbell (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) The actual… I don’t know what it is… expenditure for fiscal 2007-08 is approximately $24,984,000 at this point.
I will just ask my officials to get the approximate expenditures to date. So I will provide that information once I get it from my staff.
Mr. Curley: Can the minister or the officials confirm that that information will be tabled during this session?
I have an indication from the Deputy Minister of Health and Social Services that, yes, it can be tabled before the session is over.
That is important to have. My next question is also a finance issue. The GN’s RFP at that time indicated that between the 2003-04 and 2006-07 fiscal years, spending on medical travel on scheduled airlines increased by 22 percent in the Kitikmeot, 37 percent in the Kivalliq, and 63 percent in the Baffin.
What accounts for the differences between the regions?
Again, I will refer that question to the Deputy Minister, Alex Campbell.