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For the past two days, we have been debating the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s proposed 2013-14 capital estimates budget on staff housing and public housing.
Members have raised many questions on how the proposed budget would be allocated. However, the Nunavut Housing Corporation has not been able to clearly identify how this money will be spent.
There’s no doubt in our minds that there is more staff housing and public housing is needed throughout Nunavut.
I would like to make it very clear that none of the members here want to stop the building of these additional housing units.
The issue we’re having is that the Nunavut Housing Corporation wants us to approve a large amount of money without providing details of how it will be spent.
If we approve such a budget as it is presented and Nunavut Housing Corporation comes back to this House in February with details on how this budget is to be spent, we will not have the ability to debate its decision because the budget has already been approved.
If any other GN department presented a budget between $5 million and $9 million without clear details of how it will be spent, it would probably be deleted from the budget.
Why should we make an exception for the Nunavut Housing Corporation?
So, Mr. Chairman, like I said, I wrote these comments before and I think they still stand as a comment of motion and I would stand in support of the motion.
I would like to speak on behalf of the motion there, too, Mr. Chairman.
Before I always went through the Committee of the Whole here we discussed it through the standing committee.
In keeping with the recommendations of the standing committee and that Tamapta direction for Nunavut Housing Corporation in seeking innovative ways to deliver and increase to the number of units to Nunavutmiut.
One of the things that we try to do or are in the process of doing is maximizing the best value for the taxpayers’ dollar. I am glad that we had been given this opportunity to where we could actually look at other innovative ways to try and maximize that budget we’re allotted for much needed public units and much needed staffing units.
Mr. Chairman, the Nunavut Housing Trust and Canada’s Economic Action Plan are nearing completion and there are no new federal funds that have been identified.
Nunavut Housing Corporation requested funding for at least 90 just to keep pace with the population growth of Nunavummiut.
Of course the Government of Nunavut have many, many infrastructure needs beyond housing and, of course, the Nunavut government has many limited funds to be able to care of the infrastructure needs and housing needs for Nunavummiut.
Mr. Speaker, again, I’ve got to indicate that this was one of the first times and under the recommendations of the standing committee we were trying to find innovative ways to maximize the budget allotted towards that.
Having said that, as the minister responsible for the housing corporation my intention is to continue doing that, but I will surely support the motion that was put forward by the committee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I would like to ask the mover if he has any last reply, which will close the debate.
Thank you. I appreciate the cabinet’s indication that they would support the motion and I would certainly hope that they would continue to support that kind of principle that we need to be transparent.
Prior to asking for the vote that the budget presented must have at least backup material.
The minister says that he is trying to find innovative ways to find units to be built in Nunavut, but we don’t know; we haven’t gone into details.
We haven’t gotten any submissions either through of the standing committee.
There has been a lot of discussion, including the advice from the committee members that there has to be innovative ways to build housing units involving, if possible, the private sector, but details have not come out yet. We have not had an announcement on exactly how the minister proposes to build units throughout Nunavut.
Mr. Chairman, I think we need to be mindful that this budget for the capital estimates is one that probably is the last budget, as was indicated a few days ago, for this current mandate that we have for Nunavutmiut.
So it’s really quite important that the details be submitted before we issue a final consideration further.  I know we’re going to probably have some comments on it when the details come out on exactly which communities will be allocated units for staff housing and for public housing.
So we look forward to that and the minister will have an opportunity to make an announcement when we reconvene in the winter sitting.
So for that reason, I’m grateful for the support and I will be asking for a recorded vote on this motion.
I will now close the debate on the motion and there will be no further comments.
For my information, did you request a recorded vote? Mr. Curley.
The mover of the motion requested a recorded vote.
Therefore, all those in favour of the motion, please stand up and sit down when I call your name.
I will start with Mr. Curley.
Madam Ell.
All those in favour of the motion, 16.
We’re on page J-3.
Nunavut Housing Corporation. Total Capital Expenditures. $28,841,000.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you. Go back to page J-2.
Department Summary. Nunavut Housing Corporation. Detail of Expenditures.
Total Capital Expenditures. $28,841,000.
Do you agree that the Housing Corporation’s capital budget is finished?
Minister Taptuna, do you have any closing remarks?
Yes, I do. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I thank the committee members and my staff here for the support in getting the budget through. I know it’s been a little difficult, and Mr. Chairman, we have to remember, when we first got into the government, we were in a difficult situation in dealing with the housing situation right from the get-go.
I appreciate the fact that there has been previous ministers that have contributed to dealing with the problems that we had a major issue with. We did, through the help of our colleagues, the Minister of Finance, the Minister of CGS and the cabinet members, where we did complete the units requested and built the much needed housing for Nunavutmiut.
I thank the members for all of their hard work, and I know it’s been very difficult for the housing staff where there’s a lot of criticism borne, again, some for a certain number of unwarranted, inherited things. I appreciate the fact that they have been working hard and I want to thank all the committee members, again.
Just before we move on to another department, Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses out.
In Committee of the Whole, we will deal with the Department of Health and Social Services and the budget for capital.
I would like to ask Minister Peterson if he has any opening comments.
Please go to the witness table.
Minister Peterson, if you have any opening comments, you may proceed.
Bill 41 – Appropriation (Capital) Act, 2013-2014 – Health and Social Services – Consideration in Committee
Hon. Keith Peterson: Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and members.
I am pleased to introduce the 2013-14 Capital Estimates for the Department of Health and Social Services.
The department has a number of capital projects planned to continue the replacement and renovation of our aging health facilities.
Almost 70 percent of the department’s health facilities are 20 years of age or older. For 2013-14, the department is requesting $24.6 million. I will briefly provide details of each capital project.
With the new Repulse Bay Community Health Centre nearing completion this fiscal year, the department will focus attention on the construction of the new community health centre in Taloyoak in 2013-14.
The department is requesting $15.7 million to commence the first year of construction of this two-year $25.7 million capital project.
In 2013-14, the department will continue with the second year of the Baffin Regional Hospital renovations.
As such, the capital estimates reflect the expected $7 million in cash flow needed to complete the renovations.
The construction contract was awarded to NCC Dowland Construction Ltd. in July.
In addition, the department is requesting a continuance of $700,000 for minor projects and an annual increase to $1 million for small capital from $700,000 annually.
Lastly, the department would like to set aside $100,000 for minor construction completion items for the new Repulse Bay Community Health Centre and $100,000 to commence the design work for the replacement of the Qikiqtarjuaq Community Health Centre.
Do you have a witness you would like to bring to the table?
Hon. Keith Peterson: Mr. Chairman, yes, I would. Thank you.
My witness is Peter Ma, Deputy Minister of Health and Social Services.
Welcome, Mr. Ma. Does the chair of the standing committee have comments?
I am pleased to provide opening comments on behalf of the Standing Committee on Social Wellness as the Committee of the Whole begins its consideration of the proposed 2013-2014 capital estimates of the Department of Health and Social Services.
The standing committee notes that the department’s proposed capital budget for 2013-14 is $24.6 million, which is more than twice the budget approved for 2012-13.
Members continue to note that the department’s actual expenditures for past fiscal years differ considerably from approved budgets often due to carryovers, budget transfers, and delays in implementing plans. This situation can lead to confusion as to the actual status of planned projects and the amount of funding that has been expended on them to date.
Members of the standing committee have raised a number of concerns with the capital planning process.
The government submits for review by the standing committees a five-year capital plan along with its draft capital budget for the fiscal year in question.
Although funds are only allocated and voted on by the Assembly on a yearly basis, the proposed five-year plan often raises expectations at the community level for future year projects.
Members are concerned with the number of projects that have been identified on five-year plans and that are being pushed back and deferred until later years, occasionally no longer appearing in the plan at all.
It is not clear how established criteria for the capital planning process are being applied to prioritize projects.
At the same time, many projects that have already been allocated funding are not proceeding according to schedule.
For example, less than six months ago, this House approved over $24 million in carryovers for projects under the Department of Health and Social Services’ capital budget alone.
Despite the fact that progress on approved capital projects is clearly not proceeding as planned, new projects continue to be added to the capital plan.
Standing committee members have expressed concern that current capital planning practices will overwhelm the capacity of the government to deliver projects in a timely manner.
Members recognize the Government of Nunavut’s considerable investments in major infrastructure projects across the territory over the past decade.
Unfortunately, staffing, housing and training issues have resulted in a number of health facilities not being used to their full capacity.
The standing committee supports the minister in his efforts to address these issues.
Mr. Chairman, the Department of Health and Social Services’ proposed capital budget for 2013-14 includes funding for four infrastructure projects and two blocks of funding for minor capital and small capital projects.
The health centre replacement project for Repulse Bay is in its final stages while construction will begin on the Health Centre replacement project for Taloyoak.
Two other health centre replacement projects are identified for future years funding, with planning dollars allocated in 2013-14 to Qikiqtarjuaq new health centre project.
Mr. Chair, the standing committee was pleased to note the department’s progress towards opening a new mental health facility in Iqaluit.
Committee members look forward to regular updates on plans for this facility as well as updates on related initiatives being considered for the Kivalliq and Kitikmeot regions.
Members note that the government’s Tamapta Action Plan’s commitment to open a “culturally-relevant substance-abuse treatment facility” still does not appear on the capital plan.
Mr. Chairman, the Department of Health and Social Services includes blocks funding for small capital projects and for minor projects in its 2013-14 capital estimates.
With respect to small capital projects, standing committee members recognize that many community health centres are aging infrastructures and occasionally have serious and outstanding repair needs which interrupt the delivery of service.
The committee notes that the department’s efforts in this area have made such improvements that plans for replacing some health centres are no longer considered a priority.
With respect to minor capital projects, the standing committee continues to look forward to updates regarding new medical equipment purchases.
Members recognize that efforts are underway to purchase a new CT scanner and anticipate an announcement of this service being available to Nunavummiut in the near future.
Committee members encourage the minister is his efforts to provide specialty clinics and services in the territory and closer to the homes and families of residents.
Members have noted that some communities are anxious to be able to provide local transportation for individuals who receive health and social services and encourage the minister and his staff to give further consideration to supporting community-driven initiatives in this area.
Mr. Chairman, that concludes my opening comments on the proposed 2013-14 Capital Estimates of the Department of Health and Social Services.
Before we start, there are two rules: 77(1), you know what it says; 77(2). I don’t have to read them because you all know what they mean. Are there any general comments to health and social services at this time?
No questions, just comments?
I do have some general comments in regard to the Department of Health and Social Services’ 2013-14 capital estimates.
As the MLA representing the community that will receive the next replacement health centre and, as the minister has pointed out in his opening comments, the need that we have across the territory for our aging health infrastructure and the Member from Hudson Bay actually spoke during his member statement today, a lot of the same issues that we experience in Arctic Bay, a health centre that was built over 26 years ago and constantly has renovations and different pieces of equipment that need to be fixed.
I know, this summer actually, while I was in the health centre for my annual checkup, I think my heart kind of went out to the staff who actually work there and live there during the day. I walked into the health centre and the smell of sewage was enough to make you gag and almost want to throw up.
The health staff actually works on a daily basis in conditions like that and, unfortunately, since they live above the health centre, they have to experience that in the evenings.
I know we’re constantly going. It’s nice to know that the Repulse Bay and the Taloyoak health centres are on track because I’ve been assured by even the previous minister that as long as those health centres were on track and being constructed on schedule that the deadlines for the Arctic Bay health centre would be met as well.
At the same time, I guess, in Oral Questions, that I asked in the House, Mr. Chairman, regarding the FPT meeting that the health minister went to with other of his colleagues from across the country.
I found it, I guess discouraging, that he did not take the chance to mention the issue of infrastructure, our aging infrastructure and the need for more infrastructure funding across the territory in that discussion, especially when he had mentioned in his reply to my oral question about his, sort of, communication with the three territories communicating at the same time.
I know, in Members’ Statements and also Oral Questions, I’ve asked over the last couple of years, there’s been huge infrastructure dollars given to First Nations communities for specific health facilities to be build in First Nations communities but at no time was infrastructure dollars given to Inuit communities to build and construct health centres.
At the same time, Mr. Chairman, I would like to, while I have the opportunity to thank and congratulate the health care staff that I have in all three of my communities for the hard work that they do in terms of the nurses, who are there 24/7, giving care to all of our constituents. We have our social workers, community wellness coordinators, mental health workers, and now with, I believe the Government of Nunavut calls it health care closer to home, we have our home care workers, which I know, in speaking with a lot of constituents who have to go down to either Ottawa or here in Iqaluit, it’s nice to be able to receive more care at home to be around family and relatives while they’re healing.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Elliott. (interpretation) Do any other members have general comments at this time?
We’re on page F-3. Health and Social Services. Branch Summary.
Directorate. Total Capital Expenditures. Mr. Elliott.
Mr. Elliott: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On F-4, and this goes to what I was speaking to in my general comments, in the minister’s opening comments, he had mentioned about everything being on track.
I was just wondering if he could possibly give more of a detailed update as to what’s happening with the two health centres that are in the process of being constructed. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank Mr. Elliott for the question. Just going back to his earlier comments about infrastructure, I didn’t have an opportunity to meet with the federal minister at the FPT finance ministers about infrastructure.
However, I did raise the issue with the Prime Minister and the Minister of Health, MP for Nunavut, with the Premier when they met with us in August in Cambridge Bay.
So my colleague can rest assured that they are aware of our infrastructure situation up here.
If I understand Mr. Elliott’s question correctly, the Repulse Bay project is nearing completion.
The expected completion date is November 16, 2012 and there’s a site visit planned for the end of November 2012. We’re using the same design for Taloyoak and I believe they are currently planning some site visits there.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Peterson. Mr. Aupaluktuq.
Mr. Aupaluktuq: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to welcome the hon. minister as well as his deputy minister. Under Small Capital on F-4, the proposed $1 million, I wanted to ask the minister.
In 2012-13, small capital funds include the replacement of a number of vehicles which are needed at the community level for home visits, local transportation, and as backup medevac transportation when there’s no private sector transportation available.
The community of Baker Lake has recognized the need for medical transportation for many years now. At a recent hamlet council meeting, the need for an ambulance type vehicle was expressed in a council resolution.
Mr. Chairman, my question to the minister and the department is: can the department provide funding from the small capital budget to assist the hamlet in acquiring such an ambulance type vehicle? If not, the question I have to ask as well is why not.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Aupaluktuq. Minister Peterson.
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank Mr. Aupaluktuq for the very important question because it has come up on a number of occasions from other MLAs over the last 10 or 11 months. The quick answer from a health perspective is no, we can’t assist either that way.
Ambulance service would be under the Hamlets Act and the Cities, Towns and Villages Act. The council would have to establish by by-law an ambulance service. A complex process and if the hamlet council wanted to secure a vehicle for ground transportation they would have to secure those funds from CGS’s Mobile Equipment Fund, possibly.
We have a gentleman providing a contract service for medevac services and he’s doing an excellent job.
As any other place, Baker Lake is expanding. The demands are increasing, a strain on the system.
With respect as well, the department, as I have indicated in the past, deals with very sensitive issues which I think are predominant all across Nunavut. I think next to education, health services are very important to be able to support.
I want to ask the minister if he can clarify what criteria is needed to be met in order for a community to eligible for a vehicle that could be used to provide medevac transportation for medical clients.
If it was an ambulance, as I said, it would be very complex. An ambulance, by its very nature, is a 24-hour service, so you would have to have people trained and on standby to provide that service and you would have to have a number that people could access. If the hamlet itself was thinking of providing that service… .
There’s a difference between ambulance and ground transportation. I’m not talking about an ambulance; I’m talking about ground transportation. If the hamlet was willing to provide that service, they could, as I said, apply to the Mobile Assistance Program.
Of course, under that program, they would have to communicate with the regional CGS officials, present their budget to them, and make it a priority.
Mr. Aupaluktuq: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the past, I’ve raised the issue of need for ground transportation assistance for people traveling on medical.
It was deemed at one point that perhaps maybe the municipal boundaries was an issue but at the same time, some clients were expressing, as well, that when they travel to a regional centre, like to Rankin Inlet, they received taxi chits.
For people wanting to make their appointments out of Baker Lake for medical travel, such as to Winnipeg, people have trouble accessing transportation to the airport.
It’s no secret that the distance from the airport to the community of Baker Lake is great and a vehicle is necessary to transport patients to and from their flights.
Does the Minister of Health agree that maybe perhaps the department bears some responsibility and ensuring that medical clients can access the services that they need?
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and I thank Aupaluktuq for his concern for his constituents.
Mr. Chairman, I’m not personally familiar with Baker Lake and I hope to get there someday to visit that community. I hear it’s quite busy and expanding.
Mr. Chairman, I can ask my officials to look at that for Mr. Aupaluktuq and may warrant some additional research to provide some assurance that the people can get from the community to the airport to make out-of-town appointments.
The minister and his department would be more than welcome in Baker Lake.
I would like to just commend the professional workers in your department, such as the frontline workers, such as nurses and social workers.
They’re doing an exceptional job and catering to the needs. As you may be fully aware, the resources are not always there, but you have some exceptional staff that are working very hard and that go above and beyond the call of duty.
I would like to just share again with the minister that there have been many occasions where you can hear people on the radio asking for a ride to the airport. For various reasons, when we attend to the airport, there are people coming back on medical who actually always seem to look for rides going back from the airport to the community after their visits as well.
I just want to remind the minister that, with the sensitivity of the nature and the well-being of people, even to the point of palliative care, it’s kind of crucial that there is support for family members who do travel. I am pleased to hear the minister is going to enquire further about medical transportation for our clients.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Aupaluktuq. I did not hear a question. (interpretation ends) Minister Peterson, did you want to make a comment?