EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
In July of 2012, the Nunavut Housing Corporation announced changes to the corporation’s Nunavut Down Payment Assistance Program.
It indicated that “these changes aim to support the development of private real estate markets in Nunavut” and that “the NHC will be able to assist a greater number of Nunavummiut in becoming homeowners, and ensure fair access to assistance.”
During the minister’s recent appearance, members raised concerns regarding the extent to which the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s homeownership programs are benefiting long-term residents.
Members were advised that the corporation is currently reviewing all of its homeownership programs and look forward to receiving an update on this issue. Members also encourage the Nunavut Housing Corporation to review the adequacy of its funding for homeownership programs.
In March of 2010, the Nunavut Housing Corporation announced a new Heating Oil Tank Replacement Program. The corporation’s proposed 2014-15 budget for this program is $500,000.
Information provided to members indicates that “this is a five-year initiative with a goal of replacing one hundred heating oil tanks per year for a total of 500 oil tanks across Nunavut.
This program is subject to review and/or renewal after five years and is expected to be renewed due to high demand.”
Members look forward to ongoing updates on this important program.
Mr. Chairman, the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s proposed capital estimates for 2014-15 include $5 million in funding for new staff housing units.
Information provided to members indicates that “the location of any added units will be based on greatest identified needs in 2013-2014.”
During the minister’s recent appearance before the Regular Members’ Caucus, members posed questions concerning the community allocation of these new staff housing units.
However, the minister was not able to provide this information and indicated that it would be provided to members before the next sitting.
As of today, members have not received this information and encourage the minister to table this information in the Legislative Assembly at the earliest opportunity.
The Regular Members’ Caucus also notes the importance of the Nunavut Housing Corporation working closely with departments to ensure that budgets adequately account for the incremental operating costs that accompany new units.
The Nunavut Housing Corporation’s proposed capital estimates for 2014-15 include $10 million in funding for the construction of new public housing units.
During the minister’s recent appearance before the Regular Members’ Caucus, members posed questions concerning the community allocation of these new public housing units.
As of today, members have not received this information and strongly encourage the minister to provide this information in the Legislative Assembly at the earliest opportunity.
On May 15, 2013, a Minister’s Statement was delivered in the Legislative Assembly concerning the federal government’s announcement that it would provide Nunavut with $100 million in funding for new public housing.
The minister indicated that “the preliminary community allocation list for a proposed initial 210 units is subject to change.”
On September 12, 2013, the Government of Canada and the Government of Nunavut issued a joint news release announcing the first year’s funding of $30 million to support new affordable housing in Nunavut. It indicated that “the funding will be delivered by the Government of Nunavut through a Supplementary Agreement to the Investment in Affordable Housing 2012-2014 Agreement signed by Governments of Canada and Nunavut in 2011.”
Mr. Chairman, the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s proposed capital estimates for 2014-15 includes $6,342,000 in funding for its Modernization and Improvement Retrofit program.
Mr. Chairman, that concludes my opening comments on the proposed 2014-15 Capital Estimates of the Nunavut Housing Corporation. (interpretation) Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Very well done. (interpretation) Prior to moving on to our review and just before I identify members on my list, there are two rules I have to remind of for the last time today so I won’t have to continually remind everyone on a daily basis.
According to Rule 77(1), you have 10 minutes to speak, and according to Rule 77(2), a member may speak more than once to a matter under discussion but not until every member wishing to speak has spoken, which is subject to the discretion of the Chair.
Are there any general comments on the minister’s opening comments?
Ms. Angnakak: Qujannamiik, Mr. Chairman.
I would like to ask: within the homeownership programs, the Nunavut Housing Corporation offers opportunities for homeowners to access grants and you mentioned one in your opening comments, the seniors and disabled persons’ preventative program.
It says that the maximum amount you can access is $1,500 and they require three years worth of tax returns. At the same time, if you want to access the down-payment assistance program that you have for a lot larger amount, the same criteria still applies.
I’m just wondering again why you make it so difficult to access the $1,500, why would you want three years worth, and if you were thinking about changing that or not.
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the member for asking that question.
I don’t want to provide incorrect information, so I would like to have Lori respond to the question if you will allow, Mr. Chairman.
We are currently looking at the $1,500 threshold.
That hasn’t been reviewed in a number of years, so we want to make sure that we’re providing the appropriate amount of money for annual maintenance for seniors in Nunavut.
In regard to the three years worth of tax returns, one of the options available to our clients is to actually fill out a form that authorizes us to actually pull the information directly from the CRA.
So with the one form signed, we can actually pull that on their behalf, minimizing the administrative burden on our clients.
At the same time, I do recognize the point the member makes and we are having a look to see if we really need three years worth of history in order to access that program.
That is one of the elements that are under review right now.
Thank you very much. I think that’s good news. I have some more questions, but I’m going to wait until we get further into the budget.
My question is to do with the homeownership program.
In the homeownership program, there are programs within the program. Can the minister give a breakdown of how much goes to the down-payment assistance program out of the total homeownership program?
I’ll get Ms. Kimball to respond to the question.
Chairman (interpretation): Ms. Kimball.
At the beginning of the year, we don’t allocate between the different programs, we wait to see what kinds of applications and what volumes are coming in.
I can tell you that in 2012-2013, we spent $1.4 million on the Nunavut Down Payment Assistance Program. So far this year as of January, we have spent $614,000 on the Nunavut Downpayment Assistance Program.
Chairman: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. (interpretation) Are there any questions to the minister’s opening remarks?
Just to let the members know that I asked the members to make remarks on the minister’s opening comments.
I am going to ask a question to the Minister of the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
In the middle paragraph: (interpretation ends) The Nunavut Housing Corporation’s funding for modernization and improvements (M&I), public housing renovations, homeownership programs, and the Mobile Equipment Fund, the Heating Oil Tank Replacement Program, and the Seniors and Disabled Persons Preventative Maintenance Program remains at approximately the same level as last year.
Is that across the territory of Nunavut?
Yes, that is for all of Nunavut.
Chairman: Thank you, Hon. Minister.
In a follow-up to that, is there a variance by community regarding this aspect?
In regard to the question, in the prior years, it’s approximately the same as the prior years. That’s geared toward the question that you just posed.
Mr. Mikkungwak, any more? Mr. Mikkungwak.
In reference to this, how does the aging public housing units or M&I programs affect this?
Does it affect this, yes or no, or does the funding stay the same in the past years to now?
The funding has been the same. In order for the member to get an adequate response, I’d like to defer this question to Ms. Kimball.
Ms. Kimball: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are two main aspects to maintenance funding.
The M&I funding, or modernization and improvement funding, that has stayed, pretty much stable. We also get regular maintenance funding and demand. The demand maintenance funding and the preventative maintenance funding as part of our main estimates, those are actually scaled up by communities, based on the new construction that exists in each of the communities.
As we add units, the local housing organizations is provided with more maintenance funding.
In terms of the M&I, this is really for older stock, so that’s why the allocations by communities really stayed the same for the past several years to address the older stock.
Now flipping to the second page of the minister’s opening remarks, again referring to the middle paragraph of his presentation, “Construction through the Nunavut Housing Trust and Canada’s Economic Action Plan has improved our ability to fulfill our mandate, but there is still a significant need for additional housing units.
The Nunavut Housing Needs Survey showed that 3,580 more units are immediately required.
Furthermore, we estimate that an additional 90 units will be required each year to keep pace with population growth based on current Nunavut Bureau of Statistics projections and the proportion of the population currently dependent on public housing.”
With that, my question is: does the Nunavut Housing Corporation have another action plan to meet the needs regarding that survey?
In reading my opening comments, we receive a large portion of the funds from the federal government. It’s evident that the funding will approximately cover half the units that are required. It’s evident that the funding is not going to be sufficient enough to fulfill the housing requirements.
So we will need to continue to lobby the federal government for more funding. That’s how we can move forward.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Hon. Minister.
My additional question in reference to that is: has the Nunavut Housing Corporation explored affordable private homeownership to meet the needs of that survey to make the numbers smaller?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also would like to thank the member for the question.
Yes, we will continue to look to alleviate the housing shortage. We’ll continue to look at ways on how to alleviate the housing shortage and we will continue to look at ways of how we can alleviate the lack of housing and continue to look for affordable housing. Perhaps I’ll ask Lori to make a supplementary to the response with your permission, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you. Ms. Kimball.
Through the recent implementation of our rent scale, we’re able to have insight now into the incomes of our public housing tenants.
It confirmed that we have very few public housing tenants who have incomes that would make them viable as homeowners.
It’s an extremely small percentage of our tenants.
Affordable homeownership for public housing tenants is probably not a close thing without further economic development for the territory. However, we are definitely looking at options on our staff housing side of things, where there is more opportunity to take advantage of some affordable housing.
In looking at the document also at the very last paragraph on the second page of the minister’s opening comments, “Based on an average cost of $400,000 per unit and the 2013-14 total Government of Nunavut capital estimates of just over $153 million, it would take 12 years at today’s prices for the Government of Nunavut to eliminate the current housing shortfall and meet the need being created by population growth if 100 percent of capital spending were directed toward construction of new public housing units and these units continued to be supplied as GN owned public housing in the same manner as in the past.”
My question to that paragraph is: with that statement, is that only looking at that particular type of housing units?
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Mikkungwak. (interpretation ends) In the interest of time, may I suggest that for those of you who have comments to the opening remarks by the minister, the document has been read; we don’t need to re-read the whole thing again.
Please try and get to your questions without reading the whole document again, if I may.
Yes, these matters you are asking about, if that is, indeed, the case, then if I understood your question, you were asking about the construction costs.
If that was the question about costs for the same design under construction, did you ask if the department has that type of perspective?
Yes, you are correct. (interpretation ends) Those are based on those current public housing models.
(interpretation) I hope my response was understandable.
My last question regarding the opening comments is: has the Nunavut Housing Corporation taken into consideration on their surveys regarding private homeownership and how that may impact the housing shortfall across the territory?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I also thank the member for asking that good question.
I’ll have Lori respond to the question with our Chair’s permission.
I’ll do this from memory, but I believe that the 2009-2010 survey showed that there were about 1,800 private homeowners in the territory against the total number of dwellings of 9,400 in the territory.
To the minister’s opening comments, Mr. Sammurtok.
Mr. Sammurtok (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
With respect to the Fire Damage and Replacement Fund, it states that there are funds for this purpose.
There are quite a number of units with fire damages where nothing has even been done even though the lot could possibly be utilized. We all know that in Rankin Inlet that it has a (interpretation ends) utilidor system. (interpretation) and it is very expensive to attempt a new (interpretation ends) utilidor system hook-up.
(interpretation) Wouldn’t it be more efficient to tear down these units and reuse the lot that they are situated in?
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Sammurtok. (interpretation ends) Hon. Minister.
Units damaged by fire (interpretation ends) smoke damaged (interpretation) and if the damage was quite huge, yes, they would have to build a replacement unit but if the unit can be retrofitted, if they could do modernization and improvement on that unit.
It just says fire damage report and we all know that when you are under a utilidor system, there can be water damage, as well, to the building, social housing, or anybody’s house. If the piping breaks down, then there can be water damage in the house.
Are those thought about at all?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman and thank you.
All those are considered. If they are fighting a fire with water, it can have water damage through the firefighting process and they would need to be repaired, so we look at all those different maintenance needs and they are done.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, (interpretation ends) Hon. Minister. (interpretation) Questions on the minister’s opening statement, Mr. Hickes.
Just to touch a little bit on what my colleague from Rankin Inlet has just mentioned with regarding the fire damage.
This fund has decreased by $611,000 from last year’s capital budget, yet, which is still almost three times the annual budget being allocated to this line item in previous years.
Can the minister explain what type of fire prevention measures that the Nunavut Housing Corporation is taking to help alleviate some of the stresses on this budget’s line items?
Thank you to the member for asking that good question. I would like to get Lori to respond to that on damages resulting through different means, through fire, or through bad planning, or other things.
Part of the increase that we are seeing in fire damage costs and fire damage budget is the increase we are seeing in general in cost of construction and cost of repairs throughout Nunavut.
We definitely take fire prevention seriously but in terms of the volume of fires relative to the volume of units, we’ve added almost 25 percent to our stock with the NHT and with the SIP construction, so it makes sense that we would see an increase in fires proportionally based on the larger stock.
We are taking steps to reduce fire. We recently were doing a tenant engagement campaign.
That consists of an annual calendar that we’ve distributed to all of our LHOs, which does try to get tenant involvement in terms of the care and maintenance of the units: things like fire prevention are addressed; things like consideration of your neighbours for noise.
Those types of things are all addressed through that calendar.
We have further tenant engagement activities planned coming for the next year as well.
Also in that budget line, it’s $1.789 million for insurance deductibles and replacement units.
Could I be provided a breakdown of how much of that is for the insurance deductibles?
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Hickes. Hon. Minister.
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In regard to the insurance matters, Ms. Kimball can explain that better. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
Chairman: Thank you, Hon. Minister. (interpretation) You have my permission.
I actually don’t have that handy.
We do pay a deductible of $50,000 for each multiplex when there is an incident. The balance is actually through GN insurance. To access the GN self-insurance, we actually claim that as well.
So the $1.789 million is actually all the claim from the GN. Thank you.
I’d like to thank the minister for covering so many of the topics that I was looking at covering in his opening comments. It saved me a lot of time in the next round of questioning.
The CMHC funding under the social housing agreement is set to decline.
The current limit of the $15.3 million, in my opinion, isn’t even sufficient for the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s needs.
Can you let me and the members know how fast that this fund is being depleted until the year 2037?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also thank Mr. Hickes for his question.
I’d like you to get the proper reply so I’ll get my deputy minister to respond to that.
Chairman: Thank you, Hon. Minister. (interpretation) Please respond to him correctly, Ms. Kimball.
The amount of funding decline actually varies quite a bit per year.
I can tell you that in 2014-15, it’s going to go down by $648,000. In 2015-16, it will go down by $220,000.
In 2016-17, it goes down by $692,000. In 2017-18, it goes down by over $1 million. In 2018-19, it goes down by over $1.6 million.
It does vary quite a bit for the next years. It’s a little bit less of a decline than it has been in the past few years, but it will ramp up again.
While we all appreciate the investment in new housing units for our territory, in your opening comments, you alluded to the expense that is borne by the Nunavut Housing Corporation to maintain those units.
I know I’m kind of treading a little bit of thin line here, Mr. Chairman, because that’s more of an O&M topic but it was brought up into the opening comments so I’m going to touch on it.
With your discussions with the federal government, as well as through the Department of Finance with the Government of Nunavut, what is the strategy going forward, if we keep getting the investments that we hope to get from the federal government to build new units?
How are we supposed to maintain them at current maintenance cost levels?
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Hickes. Hon. Minister Kuksuk.
I thank my namesake George.
My officials can explain the budget a lot better than I can and also predict better than I can so I’ll get them to explain it.
It’s an issue that’s facing all of the provinces and territories throughout Canada and we’re actively engaged with the Provincial and Territorial Working Group to complete a business case that’s been under production for a couple of years now.
We’re trying to get into the final stages and get that issued and there is a section in that document that specifically speaks to the unique circumstance of Nunavut. So, hopefully, that document will have an effect.
As well, as part of our GN comprehensive long-term strategy and framework documents, we’ve identified that we need to take more steps in terms of building our business case internally and getting better statistics and metric so we can have a stronger case going forward to the federal government, as well.
I appreciate that answer, Ms. Kimball and I can’t stress enough to yourself and Mr. Kuksuk on educating your peers at these FPT meetings.
I’ve attended them in the past and I know that every jurisdiction in Canada is dealing with these issues but I don’t think that any of them are dealing with them on the scale that we are.
I know that it’s a difficult message to get across to people who don’t understand the way we live in Nunavut and I just wish you the best of luck.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Hickes. (interpretation ends) I take that as a comment. (interpretation) Thank you.
I will proceed. Does anyone have any questions on the opening remarks?
I will recognize Mr. Mikkungwak again.
I had planned to ask him a question earlier but I realized that I had skipped it.
On page 2 of 3, regarding the item listed in the bottom paragraph (interpretation ends) based on an average cost of $400,000 per unit, on that $400,000 unit, is that a detached unit or an apartment building?
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Mikkungwak. (interpretation ends) Hon. Minister, (interpretation) which is it?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): It would be a multiplex.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, (interpretation ends) Hon. Minister. Mr. Mikkungwak.
Thank you to the minister for responding properly. I would like to ask, so what would the figure be for a standalone unit?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): It could be the same or it could even be cheaper but I don’t think it would be much cheaper. The $400,000 is average per unit.
On page L-3 and L-4 and L-5 combined, it states Nunavut Housing Corporation.
Branch Summary. Nunavut Housing Corporation.
The first one I will ask is based on our committee member’s comments. When we were in the Regular Members’ Caucus, we questioned the minister on the $5 million for staff housing and we were questioning where this money will be spent.
The minister stated at that time that he would provide members, before the next sitting, with more details on this $5 million funding for staff housing.
Can the minister update us today on where this money will be spent?
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Rumbolt. (interpretation ends) Update, please, hon. minister.
Yes, we should be updating them as per the subject raised in his question if we can complete it in time.
The information is actually held by Lori.
Chairman: I believe you’re asking permission to have me recognize Ms. Kimball and, if that’s the case, I do recognize Ms. Kimball. Go ahead.
For the $5 million for staff housing, we’re proposing four duplexes, one in Resolute Bay, one in Whale Cove, one in Chesterfield Inlet, and one in Kugluktuk.
I thank Ms. Kimball for that update.
It makes it much easier for us in approving budgets when we know where the money is going to be spent.
On a different note, in your opening comments, you talked about $1 million for fire damage repair.
Is the $1 million sufficient to repair all the fire damaged units that are across Nunavut today?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you very much.
This is specific to units suffering fire damage, although it is unfortunate to have to deal with fires and fire damages to our units, there is no way around it.