EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
In Sanikiluaq, we have not confirmed lots, although we are looking for a lot for a duplex.
We believe that we are likely to obtain lots and we will be able to do that. As well, we are still confirming lots in Hall Beach. There are lots available currently and we are just working with the hamlet to confirm those.
The last community, I believe, is Whale Cove. There are lots available, but they are not the exact lots we would like to put the houses on.
Those are the communities and those are both public and staff housing where we are still working on land acquisition and we’re confident that we will be able to move forward with those communities as well, but it will take a little bit of extra work coordinating with CGS as well as the hamlets to ensure they are available.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you very much. (interpretation ends) I would like to remind all members to have your cellphones on silent mode.
Just for clarification’s sake again, when Mr. Hooey was responding about which communities they were still working on land acquisitions [for], he mentioned Whale Cove and Whale Cove is not on the list that the minister stated a little while ago.
So if he could please verify which community he is talking about.
Please clarify your response, Mr. Kuksuk.
Hon. George Kuksuk: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If you will allow Mr. Hooey to (interpretation) confirm which ones. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you. Mr. Hooey.
Mr. Hooey: Sorry. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for that clarification.
It’s Coral Harbour. I tend to mix those two up in my head sometimes and my apologies for that. That is, in fact, Coral Harbour.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you very much. It’s not Whale Cove; it’s Coral Harbour.
Just to change the subject a bit, I want to go back to what Mr. Hickes was questioning on Friday and leave it at that for a minute.
The issue of residency requirements for the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s programs… .
As of today, if you move to Nunavut from any other part of Canada, you have to live here for a full year before you are eligible to vote in the territorial elections.
However, you are eligible for significant financial assistance from the housing corporation under such programs as the Nunavut Downpayment Assistance Program from the moment you step off of the airplane. Can the minister explain how this is fair and reasonable?
Regarding the residency requirement, let me look for it in my documents.
Ms. Kimball has the proper page, so I will refer that question to her, if it’s okay with you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
There are two key things that we’re keeping an eye on. At this point, we have not denied any applications for NDAP due to lack of funding. We’ve had enough funding to accommodate everybody that has applied that has been eligible and have met the qualifying criteria.
The other thing to keep in mind is that when someone comes into staff housing, the cost to the Government of Nunavut is an average of $18,000 per year.
If someone comes up and is not a resident and accesses the NDAP program, 100 percent gets paid back to the Nunavut Housing Corporation if they leave within five years.
There are two things. It accomplishes helping the recruiting process, but it also accomplishes retention with the GN. In the end, it is a better deal for the Government of Nunavut to just advance $30,000, which is the maximum for NDAP, if it is going to get 100 percent back in five years as opposed to paying $18,000 per year over those same five years if the person stayed in staff housing.
I still think and feel deeply that there should be a residency requirement for this program. You said that, for example, if somebody moves into the community and they get this program and they leave within five years, then they have to pay a 100 percent back to the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
Now, in some communities, the housing market probably increases in the three or four years to the point where the person selling their house couldn’t care less that they have to pay 100 percent back because the amount that they get for the home probably outweighs the amount that they would have to pay back.
Again, do we think that’s a fair thing to do?
I would just like the minister to comment on whether or not they would relook at this policy.
Regarding the housing programs and homeownership programs, people can apply for it no matter how long they have lived here.
Possibly it’s up to us to review this policy, but we have not made any changes so far and I can’t tell you what our decision would be.
However, we would be more than willing to review it. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
I would hope they do relook at this and maybe get back to the committee at a later date on this decision on which way they would go and explain exactly why they want to go one way or another.
Just to change the question a bit, we always talk about the building of new homes and the money needed for public housing, and it seems like we’re forgetting the housing stock that we have.
I’m mostly concerned about the older units and the M&I funding that’s allocated to communities each year. It seems to never change and it never increases, but our houses are getting older and deteriorating more each year.
I’m just wondering if they could explain what their plan is to update or upgrade our oldest stock so that they’re more usable for the tenants because it seems like these older units are getting very cold and the cost of maintaining and heating them is going up every year. Every time the wind blows, people are complaining that they just can’t keep it warm anymore. I’m just wondering if the department can explain what their plan is for these older units.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you very much. (interpretation ends) Minister of the Nunavut Housing Corporation, Mr. Kuksuk.
There are quite a lot of older units in the communities, but due to the severe housing shortage, we have to utilize those older units and through the $6.3 million set aside for the M&I projects, it’s staying at status quo. Yes, the older units should be renovated.
Our expenditures would go up and there would be fewer monies to build new units.
We have not identified additional funds through the M&I project. We’re going to leave it as is.
We all know that there is a housing shortage in Nunavut and we all know that we have to keep using these older units.
We can’t just tear them down.
My point is that no money is being spent on them. I think you’ve got an average of about $150,000 to $180,000 that goes toward M&I dollars for these units. There are a lot of units in our communities that require drastic attention.
My question was going to be: when are you going to look at this as a priority and start investing more money into these older units so that they don’t start deteriorating to the point where they just aren’t usable anymore?
I think with some of these units, it’s going to be fairly soon if they don’t pay some attention to them.
If the minister would comment on that, please.
I understand the member’s question clearly.
As I stated, approximately 50 percent of our units in Nunavut are over the age of 25 years.
The funding we’re using has been appropriate to the number of units that need to be renovated for M&I. It’s $6.3 million for 25 communities for M&I work.
I agree with the member wholeheartedly because some units are more than 25 years old. We will continue to do M&I work on those older units.
The condition rating has been updated to have better priority plans.
I believe that we can see the results from there. That way, we will have a better idea as to how many units will require renovation.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you very much. (interpretation ends) Nunavut Housing Corporation. Branch Summary.
Nunavut Housing Corporation. L-3.
Following the list of names, Mr. Joanasie.
I’ll start off with your opening comments in regard to the Tenant-to-Owner Program that has been improved.
Would this program start right away?
What changes have you made to that?
There was a change in the Tenant-to-Owner Program. We now have a program for the tenant to owner.
I’ll read them so that you can have a better understanding.
(interpretation ends) Affordability determination revised and supplemented, including alignment with other homeownership program affordability considerations, this will maintain consistency and help to ensure a client’s affordability and ability to maintain a home.
(interpretation) This is also included, (interpretation ends) the age of eligible units increased from 10 to 15 years. (interpretation) That is one. (interpretation ends) This reflects the reality of Nunavut’s aging housing stock and to ensure that newly constructed public housing units are not sold prematurely.
(interpretation) Thirdly, (interpretation ends) provisions concerning NHC setting house sale price valuation to add a level of fairness and consistency to the application of the Tenant-to-Owner Program. The previous guidelines allowed NHC to set the value of the sale without any guidance or direction. (interpretation) Those were the changes on the Tenant-to-Owner Program.
I also want to get clarification. Have you started identifying within the Nunavut Housing Corporation the units that can use the Tenant-to-Owner Program?
Have you identified the individuals or tenants that can access that program?
In regard to the member’s question, it was just recently approved, so we’re just starting to communicate with the applicants.
Moving on to another item, although there were some questions posed in regard to the M&I program, the funding has not changed for this line item for quite some time.
In your substantiation sheet, it indicates that the funding was divided among the three regional districts. A condition rating is also included. How many units are there in the communities?
Will this continue? If we look at the new public housing units, it states that there is $527,000 for one unit.
That amount of funding can provide an M&I program for at least ten units.
Have you ever considered that kind of thinking?
That’s a good question. I’ll have Ms. Kimball provide a proper response.
The aging stock is something that we’re very concerned with at housing. That’s why we have done a renovation to our condition rating software. Part of the M&I process every year is we do have our district offices consult and work with each of the LHOs to address what should be priority, working with what’s in the system, but also talking to LHOs.
We do recognize that we have added a significant number of housing units since the Nunavut Housing Trust, which started back in 2006.
We’re coming up onto almost ten years. At some future point, we do recognize that this number is going to have to grow.
At this point, we’re still basically working with the original set of units and we have been able to keep up on the M&I’s that we’re seeing coming through the condition rating system.  In total, we have $10.6 million a year because we do still receive almost $4.3 million from CMHC every year as well.
In support of my colleagues, if we can increase the M&I program funding… . As I stated earlier, I know that we will need to construct new units, but there are numerous units that need M&I work, perhaps in the majority of the communities. I believe that there are empty units in most of the communities of Nunavut.
Perhaps we should focus more on empty units rather than constructing new units because it costs over $500,000 to construct new units. Perhaps you can actually improve and do more work in five units. Can you commit to focusing on that area of work?
I think I understand the question.
Yes, we would gladly look into as to how much funding is used for improvement work and for the costs of constructing a new unit.
Yes, we’re willing to look at the comparison prices on that.
Staying on the modernization and improvement retrofits, everyone knows that there a homeownership program to replace heating oil tanks. That’s for homeowners, but for public housing units, is it part of M&I or is there something else that deals with public housing oil tanks?
You understood it clearly. For the fuel tanks, there is the program for the homeowners if they want to get a new fuel tank.
For public housing units, fuel tanks are also under the M&I program.
In addition to that, every house has appliances and fixtures. I’ll use an example of the O&M cost of maintaining a public housing unit is about $23,000 a year. It has been said that water is one of the highest costs.
Have you looked at, for example, toilets that use less water? I think they’re called dual flush toilets. Have you ever looked at that or do a pilot project?
I again thank my colleague for asking that question. I can’t respond to that myself on the working of toilets or using different types of toilets that use less water.
I would like Ms. Kimball to explain that if she has heard about it, Mr. Chairman.
Energy efficiency is something that we look at when we’re doing our designs. I know that we have looked at more efficient toilets, for instance. I don’t know specifically about dual flush, but I know low flow and that type of thing has been looked at.
I know that when we’re procuring our appliances, as public housing comes with fridges and stoves, we do make sure that they’re energy efficient.
We do put those types of specifications or parameters in there to try to make sure that we are taking those things into consideration and keeping ongoing operating costs as low as we can.
Mr. Joanasie (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) Along the same lines, in a well-insulated house, you use less fuel to heat it.
When you’re doing modernization and improvements, are there standard insulation materials and that sort of thing that NHC uses or makes as requirements for contractors when they are building a house?
Whenever there is modernization happening or if a contractor is going to get materials for a modernization project and you are talking about insulation, it has to be an approved type of insulation. If it’s an older building, then the insulation has to be, I think, an R-12 or an R-16 that would be approved or if it has to be foam, it has to follow the building code for the actual type of insulation.
As construction goes in different stages, they get inspected. For example, after the insulation has been installed, they get inspected and they make sure the vapour barrier has been put on properly.
They are inspected to make sure the construction is being done according to code, especially ensuring that the house will be warm and some of your other concerns are also addressed.
Along the same sort of lines, if there is an emergency situation for a private homeowner or if it is a housing corporation house and their unit has to be renovated with double-paned windows or triple-paned windows by a contractor, do you tell the contractors or do you have rules… ?
Because we live in the Arctic and because the house has to be able to be kept warm, have you told the contractors what the best types of windows are to be used for renovations?
Yes, as I stated earlier, the buildings that are under our department or under the housing associations have spec sheets as to how that building is to be constructed.
We provide that to the contractors. They don’t make their own specs. The housing corporation has specifications as to how new buildings are supposed to be built.
To move on to something else, people have always known about the lack of housing in our community and people have talked about it. In one of the communities I represent, before I became an MLA, our present Premier was the Minister responsible for the Nunavut Housing Corporation. We were told then that because of the lack of capacity at the Cape Dorset power plant, they couldn’t build any more units there.
After the school burned down, and everybody heard about that too, that school must have used a lot of power because it was quite a big school.
(interpretation ends) You talked about certain utility availability and land development in the communities, and power generation is one of the things that they look at.
In Cape Dorset, we had a big building that is no longer there and it has probably freed up a lot of power consumption usage.
Can you look at meeting with the Qulliq Energy Corporation, now that there’s no school, to see if there is any way that we can build some new houses or retrofit existing, abandoned houses and alleviate the housing stress in Cape Dorset?
Let me explain first of all.
The community that he is talking about, Cape Dorset, for the communities that are supposed to be allocated housing, we haven’t skipped Cape Dorset.
The communities that have the most needs are what we’re following as a priority list.
It’s not really because of the lack of power. We haven’t used the lack of power in Cape Dorset as an excuse to skip that community.
Cape Dorset is in the housing allocation plan. I hope you understand that.
Regarding your other question, we have always kept in communication with the Qulliq Energy Corporation.
We have worked together to try and find a way to look at the power generation system in Cape Dorset because it’s not strong enough for the whole community. That was a reason.
QEC has been looking for a solution and they have kept us involved in it.
We have been trying to proceed together on this.
Because of the lack of power, we couldn’t build a number of units in Cape Dorset. It hasn’t been skipped altogether.
The people of Cape Dorset do not want to be skipped. If you can work with the Qulliq Energy Corporation when the housing corporation wants to build more housing in the future, always think about Cape Dorset. Don’t skip Cape Dorset.
Good afternoon, Mr. Minister and your officials.
(interpretation ends) I can’t seem to get my ducks in order, so I’m going to be all over the place.
(interpretation) My colleague, Mr. Rumbolt brought up the homeowner assistance programs earlier and the minister stated the programs could be reviewed in response to one of his questions.
Many of us have stated that the programs are mostly for those people who are coming here for a short time and leaving.
They’re not for the people of Nunavut that are going to stay here, especially for the younger people who are just starting out with their lives, with a young family.
Both parents are working because it’s very expensive to have kids or even live in Nunavut.
If you’re not going to have any vehicles, snowmobiles, or anything like that, life is cheaper.
If you’re not going to live up here, then you don’t need those things, but if you’re going to be an actual person living in Nunavut, we need to have that equipment.
Our precious young people who are just starting new families need both parents working if they’re going to have a proper home.
We just stop them when they’re trying to get houses.
The homeowner assistance programs are very good for transients, but no good for the people of Nunavut.
I am very glad that you said that you’re going to be reviewing it. I encourage you to do that. I would really like you to say, “We are going to be reviewing it.”
Don’t just say that we can review it. I would like to hear you say that “We are going to be reviewing it.”
I would like you to put some more thoughts into that matter.
My first question will be about houses being built. Last year, there were a bunch of communities that received houses. I am happy about that.
Pond Inlet also got units. Can you let us know how it is going with the communities that received housing?
Have they all proceeded well?
Are they being completed with the budget that we approved last year?
Yes, it’s going well. I can say that.
For instance, the tenders for the houses in Pond Inlet were opened last February.
The completion dates are still set for August 2016.
I’m just talking about Pond Inlet right now.
There are also other communities, Mr. Chairman.
I think I understand that other communities are going ahead on schedule. I can’t remember how many communities there were.
Are all the other communities on schedule besides Pond Inlet?
Yes, I can tell you that in Arviat, they have a completion date of this coming December 2015.
Construction on those started in 2014.
Some units are scheduled to be completed in July 2016.
The tenders that were opened on February 23 are scheduled to be completed in July 2016.
Looking at the Kitikmeot communities, their units are scheduled to be completed by August 2016 and there are older projects in Kugaaruk.
Looking at our schedule for completion of construction, all the units are being constructed on schedule.
When we’re talking about home construction, I know that the Nunavut Housing Corporation is always looking for the lowest cost, but I think too that perhaps you shouldn’t put the cost so low that they’re substandard.
Looking at the design of the buildings, the buildings that are being built today are always multiplex units.
Can you use as an example which units are the most cost-effective to date?
Unfortunately, I totally don’t understand your question.
I’ll ask Ms. Kimball if she was able to understand your question so that she can answer it because I don’t understand.
We put out very detailed specifications as part of the tendering process and in the tendering process, we outline a payment schedule. Before any contractor can receive payment for work performed, we do have one of our NHC staff fly in and make their observation and do an actual inspection.
We do have that method to make sure that we’re not paying for something that is substandard.
Obviously, we have a vested interest and we care very much about making sure that the units that are being built are going to last well into the future.
As I said before, we do find that the price can come down the more units we are building, so we have found multiplexes do give us a better price per unit.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman (interpretation ends) I would like to thank Ms. Kimball for answering a question that I never asked, but it’s nice to know.
Obviously, I did not come across very well, but I appreciate the answer.
I guess what I’m alluding to is, (interpretation) I’m trying to say that I think the design of the buildings are always improving and I think we’re always looking for designs that are better for the Arctic.
Of the newer designs of the buildings being built today, can you give me an example where we’re using these designs now because it’s more cost-effective and better for the Arctic?
I was trying to ask that question.
Now that I understand you, I thank you for your question.
Mr. Chairman, for myself, I don’t deal with this on a daily basis, but my officials are kept apprised on a daily basis as to which designs are more energy efficient, different things like weatherstripping. Ms. Kimball can respond to what improvements we have seen, as you were requesting.
Because of the specifications we have to use today, I would like Ms. Kimball to respond to that question. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
One of the more recent examples that I can quote is we removed the back porch, and I know that was a very controversial decision. What we did look at is what it is costing to build that back porch and we came up with a figure of around $40,000 to add a back porch to a unit.
For every 10 units, that’s one less unit we’re able to build for people.
At NHC, we actually hold regular annual meetings with our maintenance staff to get feedback from LHOs into our headquarters at our directorate office and we incorporate that feedback in the next year’s work of design. We are setting up a more formalized feedback process to incorporate feedback we get.
Personally, I did a Baffin region tour this summer and have been having phone calls with individual LHOs to get feedback to find out what’s working and what’s not working in the communities to make sure that we’re being as responsive as we can be.
Thank you for that response. This is clearer now.
I would also like to ask a question regarding staff housing.
You have stated that in the past, there were different areas you had to consider and you looked at the student-teacher ratio, the design, and force shared units.
Those impact everything in the community.