EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
I’m not sure what Mr. Rumbolt’s... (interpretation) Thank you.
Chairman (interpretation): Mr. Arvaluk, you are probably aware that we are still dealing with the opening comments and I see no Point of Order.
You guys are starting to look like each other.
No offence meant, but I thank Mr. Rumbolt for that excellent question.
The reason for the projected deficit in the Fuel Stabilization Fund is that there was no drop in the fuel price that they were purchasing.
In the opening comments of the hon. minister, I wanted to try and draw your attention to the $75,000 and what it meant to the people of Kugaaruk.
It means months and months of hammering out the deal between the co-op and the district education authority in Kugaaruk. It means having a dialogue between the Minister of Housing and the people of Kugaaruk.
It means that in Kugaaruk, we will be able to meet the requirement for the student-teacher ratio.
Mr. Chairman, it means that we will be able to attract teachers from the south to teach in the remote communities.
So having said those things, the $75,000 means, from the perspective of the community on a paper like this, this is a commitment from the government and we appreciate that commitment.
I didn’t hear any questions. I think the message is clear.
We will now proceed to page-by-page review of the departmental estimates starting with page 4.
Chairman: Page 4. Finance. Operations and Maintenance.
Not Previously Authorized. Centrally Administered Funds. Total Centrally Administered Funds. $2,732,000.
Total Department. $2,732,000. Agreed?
Chairman: We will go to page 5. Environment. Operations and Maintenance.
Not Previously Authorized. Program Management. Total Program Management. $500,000.
I am just wondering what the $500,000 funding is for. Is it to subsidize the price of fur for the harvesters?
The briefing note that’s for $500,000 is to provide the Department of Environment with funding to fund the Fur Pricing Program as operations and maintenance.
I have no more names here.
Total Program Management. $500,000.
Chairman: Total Department. $500,000.
Mr. Arvaluk: I need further clarification before we pass that program.
Why do you need $500,000 that is not previously authorized?
Why was it not in the $15,272,000 budget in the first place?
Hon, Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I thank Mr. Arvaluk for that question. Mr. Chairman, it’s a good question.
Previously, the program was a revolving fund.
In other words, the purchase or sale of the furs would fund the program, but they were losing money, so they decided to turn it into an O&M and then there would be an annual base appropriation of $500,000 to fund the program.
Total Department. $500,000. Agreed?
Page 6. Economic Development and Transportation. Operations and Maintenance.
Not Previously Authorized. Economic Development. Total Economic Development. $184,000.
Just again in terms of the $184,000 that is going to fund mine training projects and socio-economic monitoring committees, under the socio-economic monitoring committees, could the minister tell us what communities those represent?
I believe the minister indicated that there are three regional socio-economic monitoring committees.
In terms of mine training projects, could the minister expand on what those are? Is it basic skills? Is it drilling?
I believe the Minister of Economic Development and Transportation indicated that he didn’t have those details, but he would provide them to the standing committee when he had that information.
Even though we seem to have covered that earlier on, I would like to ask Minister Taptuna to respond to that question, please.
On the type of training that is identified here, the heavy equipment operator training and training in specialized mill helper throughout the processing plants and various other drilling programs, including the establishment of headquarters in the Kivalliq region, headquarters and operations in Baker Lake.
In terms of setting something up in the Kivalliq and also with the work that is going on in Baker Lake, with what is happening in Baffin and with Baffinland, is something similar going to be modelled here in the Qikiqtani?
Yes, I had mentioned that this organization encompasses the whole territory of all three regions and whatever the organization commits to and decides on what type of training the companies are requesting, that would be pursued and followed up, and it’s within all three regions.
I think I understand what he is saying now.
It sounds like a really good idea, and then what they will do is work with Arctic College as well to help with program delivery.
Yes, and with a various number of other organizations.
To continue, Total Economic Development. $184,000.
Chairman: Total Department. $184,000.
Chairman: We will go to page 7.
Operations and Maintenance. Not Previously Authorized.
Total Nunavut Housing Corporation. $207,000.
I just want to add to some of the questions that the member from Nattilik was asking in terms of the different anti-homelessness initiatives that are being planned.
Is this position an indeterminate position with the GN or is it a contract position?
I’ll ask the Minister for Homelessness to respond.
This would be an indeterminate position with the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
In terms of the explanation that the Minister responsible for Homelessness gave earlier on some of the work that has been done in the past, are there any specific policies that his department knows that they are going to work towards?
I know that Ms. Ugyuk was talking about the EPOs, or the emergency protection orders, and the possibility of what happens with people when they have no place to go.
Are there policies that you guys are working towards on encompassing how homeless shelters are going to be run, where they are going to be run, and different things like that?
As I indicated earlier, the only policy that has been developed to this point is a shelter funding policy.
We anticipate that the individual who fills this position will be able to do some research and some work in developing an overall homelessness policy for the territory. Basically, right now, this person would be doing a lot of that work to develop that policy.
As things progress, Mr. Chairman, we look to this individual to be the individual who would work with any group from any communities to be able to help coordinate an approach for funding.
Right now, the way proposals are coming in to the government, they are getting the same proposal delivered to the Minister responsible for Homelessness and now it is with the Housing Corporation.
Previously, it was with Education. You would get the same proposal being dropped off at the Department of Health and Social Services.
You would be getting the same proposal dropped off at Justice, or provided to the federal government or other outside sources for funding.
We envision this individual in this position to be able to help better coordinate these proposals so that instead of the same proposal going to each department or outside body looking for funding, they would be able to work with the group putting forward the proposal to be able to help coordinate the targeting, where you can get a certain portion of funding through homelessness, you can get a certain portion from maybe social services, or maybe a certain portion from different federal government departments or other organizations out there to be able to help better coordinate it.
That is something that has been missing in the past.
I think that anyone who has gone through any kind of funding proposals in the past will testify that this is probably one of the most frustrating things out there, to try to figure out where to go so that you are not always getting passed off onto someone else but someone to at least be able to quarterback these proposals so that hopefully they can be successful in being able to find the necessary funding from various sources for them.
Will this person who is being hired work closely with the Department of ED&T on the Poverty Reduction Strategy?
I don’t know if they will be working on that specific issue and the poverty thing, but I know that there is coordination and involvement right now from staff at the corporation.
I anticipate that when this individual comes online, this individual will take over from the existing staff to work with the Quality of Life Steering Committee that is established through the Homelessness Working Group in order to be able to better coordinate these activities.
I’m sure there are other departments that actually work together in terms of working with people who are homeless and have different strategies that they need to come up with, so it would be a good way.
Maybe that is something that you could write in the policies is how different government agencies are going to work together.
Is there a bit of a timeframe within your department as to how long it would take for this policy to be created and come about?
I say right now, the corporation is currently working with the Department of Human Resources to recruit this individual and once that individual comes online, then we can assume things to move forward.
Until that individual is hired, it would be hard to put any timelines to anything. I can assure the member that once that individual has been identified and that position has been staffed, work will move forward.
We will attempt to proceed.
Chairman: Total Department. $207,000.
Schedule 1. Operations and Maintenance. Operations and Maintenance Appropriation. $3,623,000.
Chairman: Go to Bill 30 in your white legislation binders.
Bill 30, Supplementary Appropriation (Operations and Maintenance) Act, No. 1, 2010-2011.
Chairman: Thank you. Clause 2. Agreed?
Chairman: Clause 3. Go to Schedule on the next page.
Schedule. Supplementary Amounts Appropriated for Fiscal Year Ending March 31, 2011.
Total Operations and Maintenance. $3,623,000.
Chairman: Total Supplementary Appropriation. $3,623,000.
Chairman: We will go back to clause 3. Clause 3.
Chairman: Is the committee agreed that pursuant to Rule 62(2) that Bill 30 can immediately be placed on the orders for third reading?
As I have asked Mr. Schell to take the Chair for the next bill, we will now take a five-minute break.
When we come back, we will then continue with the Minister of Finance and his officials at the witness table with the review of Bill 31, as I indicated, with Mr. Schell being in the Chair.
>>Committee recessed at 16:36 and resumed at 16:49
Bill 31 – Supplementary Appropriation (Operations & Maintenance) Act, No. 2, 2010-2011 – Consideration in Committee
Chairman (Mr. Schell): I would like to welcome the Minister of Finance back here.
Does the Minister of Finance have any opening remarks on Bill 31?
I am pleased to speak to Supplementary Appropriation (Operations and Maintenance) Act, No. 2, 2010-11.
As you aware, two of the financial measures in front of the Committee of the Whole implement the government’s fiscal action plan to address the shortfall in the Nunavut Housing Trust program. This operations and maintenance supplementary appropriation bill transfers $16 million from departments and the Nunavut Arctic College to the Nunavut Housing Trust program as follows:
$526,000 from the Department of Executive and Intergovernmental Affairs;
$1,724,000 from the Department of Finance;
$685,000 from the Department of Human Resources;
$2,342,000 from the Department of Justice;
$715,000 from the Department of Culture, Language, Elders and Youth;
$2,692,000 from the Department of Education;
$605,000 from the Department of Environment;
$5,179,000 from the Department of Community and Government Services;
$806,000 from the Department of Economic Development and Transportation; and
$726,000 from Nunavut Arctic College.
In addition, $2,300,000 will be transferred from our contingency fund directly to the Nunavut Housing Trust program.
This is a one-time, temporary measure that balances the need to provide programs and services at existing levels and to complete the Nunavut Housing Trust program.
In the minister’s opening comments, we see where the cuts are going to be in the bulleted areas, but it’s not clear which programs are cut or where the cuts will be made.
It just says here, for example, at the top, in the first bullet, there is $526,000 from the Department of Executive and Intergovernmental Affairs and it’s like that right down through the bullets.
It doesn’t say what programs and services are going to be cut per bullet of cuts.
I would like to ask some questions about this.
There were some questions this morning with Mr. Okalik when he was asking questions to the Premier about university and college programs. What is going to be happening if they will proceed or if there are going to be cuts in the programs and services provided by the universities and colleges?
The Premier seemed to respond by saying that there is going to be a shortfall this year because of the large amount of deficit by the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
If there is going to be a university set up in Nunavut, would we be able to set up courses at that university?
What I seemed to understand was that existing programs and services now, like the Akitsiraq Law School, the Nursing Program, and the NTEP program, will continue to be funded.
There are going to be no new programs created until the $60 million from the Nunavut Housing Trust is paid back.
One thing that I could not understand clearly was the university that we want to establish.
However, my question to the minister is with regard to the Akitsiraq Law School.
It has become uncertain if the Akitsiraq Law School will go ahead next year. Is the current budget for the program enough so that it will not be cut back?
I don’t exactly know who funds the Akitsiraq law program, whether it’s the Department of Intergovernmental Affairs or the Department of Finance.
It’s funded by one of the government departments anyways to the tune of $1,724,000.
I do know that it is not through the Arctic College as this is a different government funding process.
Can the minister tell me if the monies for that program are going to be removed, cut back, or if it’s still going to be funded next fiscal year?
First of all, the university concept, that’s a pan-territorial initiative. The Premiers of the three territories are working on the initiative. They discussed the concept of starting a northern university at the Northern Premiers’ Conference in Whitehorse a few weeks ago and that’s a concept in development.
As far as the Akitsiraq Law School, Mr. Chairman, the Akitsiraq Law School is a non-profit society. It is not a government program.
It was funded in the First Assembly and they received funds from a number of groups. They have been lobbying the Government of Nunavut in the last six or seven months to fund their program for $5.2 million in core funding.
It is not unlike other groups in Nunavut that are looking for core funding that are asking the government for support.
As, Mr. Chairman, you know and all members know, all of the government departments have many priorities that they deal with.
The Akitsiraq Law School is, as I said, outside of the government.
It was funded in the First Assembly and they’re seeking funding from us in the Third Assembly, but it’s not a government program per se.
How many of those students who are already enrolled in the Akitsiraq Law School will not make it to their graduation due to lack of core funding of $5.2 million which you did not yet approve?
At least, you didn’t tell us that you have approved it or not. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I just want to remind you that there is actually nothing in the opening statement on the law thing, but if Minister Peterson wants to answer that, it will be fine.
I understand him. He is asking how many students in the Akitsiraq Law School will not receive their education. Mr. Chairman, from what I read in the lobbying materials that Akitsiraq is providing and in the media, there were 93 expressions of interest from various individuals across Nunavut.
They are not enrolled in law school. I know they had an arrangement with the University of Ottawa that was willing to provide the education.
As far as I know, no students were enrolled.
I don’t know why they would enrol if the core funding and all of the other commitments of funding were not in place.
If not, we will go page-by-page. Page 4. Executive and Intergovernmental Affairs.
Operations and Maintenance. Not Previously Authorized. Directorate. -$172,000.
Mr. Arvaluk (interpretation): I suppose that I do not have to specifically note that statement as per my question. However, you stated that the government is requesting approval to reallocate $526,000 from the budget of EIA to the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
It just states the numbers. What specific departmental initiatives or positions will be cancelled, frozen, or delayed as a result of this budget reallocation?
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank Mr. Arvaluk for the question.
Mr. Chairman, the Department of Executive and Intergovernmental Affairs are contributing $526,000. It looks like it’s entirely due to staffing. They won’t staff certain positions and there are a number of positions vacant or they can just temporarily slow down the hiring of some staff.
I wanted to make a comment on the opening comments, but you didn’t see my hand and that is unfortunate.
It is with respect to what the minister stated that this is a one-time, temporary measure of cutting $16 million from these various departments.
The minister also stated that it is not going to have a significant impact on operations and maintenance.
If that is indeed the case, I want further clarification on how it is not going to affect the operations and maintenance. If it’s not going to have a negative impact, why aren’t we looking to cut the $16 million from less controversial items and not cut it from programs that benefit the residents of Nunavut?
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank Mr. Okalik for asking a good question.
Mr. Chairman, as the members know and it has been widely reported in the media as well, the government has a number of issues with staffing of positions across Nunavut. They reported, I think, 900.
A lot of the programs and services are delivered through casuals, contract employees, and consultants and there is still a requirement to deliver some of these programs and services.
In our Department of Finance last year, we decided that it was important to budget to actual. We learned that by budgeting to actual, we were able to find $2 million to provide to Human Resources for the Human Resource Strategy.
We found another $1 million to provide to compensations and benefits.
So we believe that by undergoing this exercise, we were able to find the $16 million.
The departments were all asked to relocate 3 percent.
Some departments couldn’t because they were already budgeting to actual, for example, the Department of Education plus they have commitments. They couldn’t contribute the full 3 percent, but they contributed where they can.
We’re hoping that this exercise will start an initiative that we can undergo on a regular basis to identify areas in the government departments where programs and services are inefficient, ineffective, and then we can utilize those resources and reallocate them to other beneficial programs and services that are reflective of 2010-11 and onwards.
So even though this wasn’t a great time for this to happen, we were already beginning that initiative to look ahead, to try and find cost savings.
We are also receiving signals from the federal government that they are undergoing their program review at the federal level. We believe that the reduction may be passed downwards to provinces and territories.
We are uncertain about the future of the Territorial Formula Finance Agreement, whether we will get an increase, remain at the same levels, or get a decrease.
The word that I have used is be prudent and look for ways to save money so that we are prepared in the next fiscal year to identify the areas where we can save money and have monies available for programs and services from exercises like this.
Our message to the departments was to maintain existing programs and services.
They went through the exercise and that’s been what I have been assured has occurred.
Mr. Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I think we can find 60 million reasons how to spend this money for the coming years, so I would like to learn more about these measures and how they impact each of the departments in the coming year and monitor it carefully.
I don’t want services that we really need to invest on, like education, suffering because of this exercise.
It is something that has to be done unfortunately for this year, but if we find 60 million reasons to keep it going, I think we have to find ways to fund new programs as we see fit.
I would like to get an explanation from each of the departments on how they plan to implement this and find ways to hopefully maintain it if we can in the long run. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I thank Mr. Okalik for that comment. It is a very good comment.
Being government, there is a tendency to continue to grow. I have been through the Government of the Northwest Territory days, where they would grow and then they get to the point where they would have to downsize.
Unfortunately, in the Government of the Northwest Territories and the Government of Nunavut, we are almost entirely dependent on territorial formula finance agreements until we get our devolution agreements in place.
It is something that should probably be done on an annual basis; always review your programs and services. I know that there is a tendency to be protective within departments with their programs and services, but the programs and services may not be efficient and effective. So the money would be locked up in a program or service and not getting you results, but it could get better results over here in another program.
I know that the former government did a program review in 2003 and it was a good start.
I think it should be, if not an annual thing, every few years that we review where we are going, what we are spending our money on, and don’t get fixed into long-term programs that aren’t getting results.
Our funds are short and we should try to get the best bang for our buck when we are allocating our programs.
I know I struggle as a minister in the Department of Justice. The members here have heard me talk about the need for community corrections officers, public service employees, funding for legal aid, and help for the Baffin Correctional Centre. Every department has heard that.
It is very difficult and then when you get other requests on top of that, it would be nice if we had a slush fund of $100 million laying around, but unfortunately, we don’t have that and we have to do the best with what we have.
I regret that we have to come this. When I was first notified of this on April 7, it wasn’t something I was expecting.
We just forecast a balanced budget in the winter session and then to be informed that there was close to a $60 million over-expenditure six or seven days into the new fiscal year, you’re going to have a lot of sleepless nights.
I apologize to the members. I appreciate the work that the ministers and all of the departments have done to come together to address this issue.
We do need houses built out there.
The people of Nunavut are depending on us to build those houses and we have to pull together to make it happen.
I know we had to defer several capital products.
I know the Nunavut Housing Corporation was able to find money internally. The $60 million, the departments sharpened their pencils and they worked very closely together to come up with the money that we believe will help us get through this issue and get the houses built.
It will be good exercise going forward and I look forward to the challenge.
Mr. Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I think I will defer my further questions until we get to each department and ask each department to outline how they plan to cut and how they plan to monitor how it will impact our constituents for the coming year.
If there’s minimal impact, then why not maintain those cuts?