EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Mr. Speaker, I moved seconded by the Honourable Member for Cambridge Bay that Bill 29 an Act to Amend the Nunavut Power Utilities Act and Certain Other Acts in Consequence, be read for the second time.
Mr. Speaker, this Bill will create the Qullik Energy Corporation, which will have two subsidiaries.
Mr. Speaker, one subsidiary will become the Nunavut Power Corporation and will provide the generation and the distribution of electrical power much the same as the Nunavut Power of today.
The other subsidiary will become the Qullik Fuel Corporation and will assume the responsibilities of improving the provision of petroleum products services to Nunavummiut much the same as the Petroleum Products Division under Public Works and Services of today.
Now, in addition to that, Mr. Speaker, this Bill was in the creation of an affordable energy funds which will combine all Government of Nunavut energy related subsidies into one fund voted by all Members of the Legislative Assembly.
Mr. Speaker, this is another step towards providing for the long-term Nunavut’s affordable energy needs.
Through the conservation, new companies and the consolidation of our fuel related enterprises, we are taking up all responsibility to enhance Nunavut’s future energy self-reliance.
Speaker: The Motion is in order. To the principle of the Bill.
All of those in favour?
The Motion is carried. Bill 29 has had Second Reading and accordingly the Bill stands referred to the Committee.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of the Bills and Other Matters.
Bill 22, Bill 23, Bill 24, Bill 30, with Mr. Puqiqnak is the Chair.
>>House recessed at15:32 p.m. and resumed at 16:01p.m.
Chairperson (Mr. Puqiqnak) (interpretation): We’d like the meeting to start again.
In Committee of the Whole, we will be dealing with Bill 22, Bill 23, Bill 24 and Bill 30.
We wish to proceed with the review of Bill 23 followed by the review of Bill 24.
If time permits, we would commence with the review of Bill 30, starting with the Department of Education.
Does everybody agree that we deal with Bill 23 and 24?
Minister’s Opening comments for Community Government and Transportation.
I have opening comments but before we go into it I would like to say a few words.
First of all, I would like to recognize those people who have worked on the City, Towns and Villages Act, which was started in 1995.
It’s been eight years since they’ve been working on this Mr. Chairman.
I have here with me Lootie Toomasi, Mr. Iqaqrialu, who he recognized the other day.
He’s been a member that took part in drafting this bill.
Also, there was Johnny Ningeongat, from Coral Harbour, Denis Lyall from your riding and Joanne Taptuna and countless others from the GNWT.
These Nunavut residents have taken part in drafting the bill and I just wanted to acknowledge them and I’d like to thank Lootie for being present during this time.
(interpretation end) Mr. Chairman, the amendments to the Hamlet Act or those proposed for the Cities, Towns and Villages Act, are the result of extensive consultation as I just said with Nunavut communities.
Consultations took place took through community representatives on a Legislation Review Steering Committee, the working group, discussions at various Nunavut Associations of Municipalities meetings, mayors meetings and directly with hamlet councils.
This package also includes further amendments that incorporate suggestions made during the spring 2002 Legislative Session by Standing Committee for Community Empowerment and Sustainable Development.
The Standing Committee reviewed these in January.
We had an excellent discussion on a whole range of municipal issues.
I hope this committee’s review will be the final step in developing updated municipal legislation for Nunavut Communities.
Municipalities have been asking for these changes for many years and I’m proud that we are now at a point to make the requested changes a reality.
This lengthy process began before division and has involved the communities and their representatives from the start.
Overall the proposed amendments will enable communities, give them more authorities to move toward a greater level of self-reliance.
These two pieces of legislation are essential to developing vital, vibrant and viable communities that are able to fulfill the Bathurst Mandate principle of self-reliance.
Ensuring that municipal governments have the capacity in the future is the principal purpose of these amendments.
The proposed legislative amendments can be broken into four main areas; Corporate Powers, Administration, Financial Affairs, and Liability, Enforcement and Other Legal Matters.
Amendments under the Corporate Powers section of the legislation include:
A new requirement for community agreements to include a mechanism for settling contractual disputes.
New powers for councils to promote economic development.
This will allow a municipal corporation to enter into a business to provide services where it is deemed to be in the public interest.
In response to concerns raised by Standing Committee, it also provides for minister approval where there is a concern that the municipal corporation is engaged in economic activity in competition with the private sector.
Amendments under the Administration section of the legislation include:
A new provision that clearly set out the duties and responsibilities of the mayor and councillors.
A new power for councils to have the option to adopt a code of ethics.
Amendments under the Financial Affairs section of the legislation include:
New provisions allowing access to the public to budgets, audited financial statements and auditor’s reports.
Provide the Minister with the power to prescribe by regulation maximum debt limits for municipalities.
These limits would be tied to revenues.
Community governments would be able to borrow long-term.
The regulations would also impose borrowing caps and establish guidelines and procedures.
Amendments under the Liability, Enforcement and Other Legal Matters section of the legislation include:
A provision for broader by-law making powers under the subject areas of people, activities and things.
Expansion of the current civil liability protection for council members to include employees, officers, volunteer workers and board members.
As well as new provisions limiting municipal liability for certain matters and activities, such as municipal facilities, services and utilities, fire protection and remedying contraventions by by-laws, except in cases of gross negligence.
Mr. Chairman, I know that the communities and the Nunavut Association for Municipalities (NAM) are anxious for us to finalize these amendments.
I am pleased to note, Mr. Chairman that this is an example of what we can achieve when the communities and the Territorial government work together.
I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman and colleagues for this opportunity to outline the proposed changes in these Bills before the House.
I would also like to welcome our legal counsel.
Do you have staff with you that you would like to sit with at the witness table?
Do Members agree for the Minister to bring in witnesses?
Sergeant-At-Arms, please escort them to the witness table.
Minister, if you can introduce your staff please.
To my right is John Walsh, you probably recognize him by now.
He is the Deputy Minister and this is Lucy McGee, our Legal Affairs Officer.
As well, Peter Alison is also involved in drafting the Bills, I am sorry, there is no room for him, but I will ask him to respond if there are specific questions directed to him, I can ask him to come here.
There is only room for three at the Witness Table.
Back to the Orders, are there any Opening Comments from the Chair?
Mr. Chair, the Standing Committee on Community Empowerment and Sustainable Development is pleased to have had the opportunity to review Bill 23, an Act to Amend the Cities, Towns and Villages Act and Bill 24, an Act to Amend the Hamlets Act with the Minister of Community Government and Transportation with her Officials.
Mr. Chairman, given that Bills 23 and 24 address many of the same issues with respect to Municipal Governments, my comments will address the contents of those Bills.
Mr. Chairman, the legislation Members have before them today is the product of several years of work.
This work started before Division and included stakeholders’ consultations in November 2001.
The Nunavut Minister of Community Government and Transportation introduced in the House, Municipal Legislation in the form of Bill 16, an Act to Amend the Cities, Towns and Villages Act and Bill 17, an Act to Amend the Hamlets Act.
Members will recall that one year ago, the Standing Committee recommended that Bill 16 and 17 fall off the Order Paper because of several areas of concerns the Members identified.
Mr. Chairman, a number of municipal bylaw-making powers such as the power to make land administration bylaws require ministerial approval.
In the original bills, there was no time limit within which the Minister was required to grant or deny approval.
And Members were concerned that costly delays could result in the legislation before us such as clear time frames during which the Minister must respond.
Members were also concerned that the previous bill opened the door too widely for competition between municipal corporations and the private sector.
Members were concerned that emerging private sector enterprises could be driven out of business if faced with competition from municipal corporations.
Members were equally concerned that municipalities be allowed to enter into business to deliver services in most communities where the private sector cannot do so.
Mr. Chairman, the legislation before us recognizes the different needs of each community by requiring ministerial approval to ensure that municipal corporations do not compete with the private sector.
In addition, Mr. Chairman, Members were concerned that the provisions for appointing municipal supervisors to municipalities experiencing financial or operational difficulties did not specify the length of such an appointment.
The legislation before us today sets clear terms for those appointments.
Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to report that through a close working relationship between the Standing Committee and the Minister, the legislation has been amended to address concerns raised by committee Members and would like to congratulate the Minister on her willingness to improve these bills.
However, Mr. Chairman, Members recognize that community empowerment without the necessary resources is not empowerment at all.
Some people have called it down loading; a downloading of responsibility and cost.
The committee will continue working to ensure that when additional responsibilities are given to the municipalities, adequate support is provided by the government.
Mr. Chairman, the Standing Committee recognizes that regulations under the legislation will be forth coming and looks forward to reviewing them prior to their final approval.
Mr. Chairman, the Committee also looks forward to further amendments to this legislation in the future including the combining of the acts into one Municipal Governance Act until such time as one new act on municipal governance can be completed.
The Standing Committee strongly urges the department to ensure that the Cities, Towns and Villages Act and the Hamlets Act are available entirely in Inuktitut.
Mr. Chairman, Members of the Standing Committee recommend the passage of the Bill as amended and reprinted to all Members.
Before I finish this, I would like to comment that I want to acknowledge the mayors over the years, like the Minister did, on their hard work.
Hopefully this bill will reflect what these mayors hard work over the last eight years, to bring this legislation forward, that they also got to take a lot of credit for bringing this bill forward, and I don’t want to sound callous here, but it’s the mayors’ bill as much as it is the Legislative Assembly’s bill.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, for your hard work to all those concerned.
I’d like the Members to know that we’re hoping to have a good discussion.
I will allow ten minutes for each Member to make general comments.
With Rule 77 (2), I will allow more time for Members but not until every Member wishing to speak has spoken.
At this point, are there any general comments?
The Minister and the committee Members, Thank you.
I’m glad to hear the comments that were made regarding these bills.
It is nice to hear that the communities have had adequate input into these bills that will truly reflect the needs of the communities. Mr. Chairman, this bill will affect each and every community in Nunavut.
I’m also proud that the Nunavut communities through their hamlets they will be truly recognized as the municipal government and it will ensure fair practices through financial assistance and it will also protect businesses by limiting municipal corporations to compete with the different companies.
As Inuit, we really don’t understand what the responsibilities are within the hamlets.
We’re elected to these municipal bodies without really knowing what the responsibilities are but with this passage of the new bill, people will have a clearer understanding of what the responsibilities are and will better represent the wishes of community members with the help of these new bills.
The Cities, Towns and Villages Act and the Hamlets Act, Bills 23 and 24 truly commend the work and the process that was undertaken in order for these acts to be possible and it will allow for smoother operation of the hamlets in the communities.
I am proud of the mayors who have truly represented their communities through their cooperation in drafting this Bill.
As Inuit we didn’t understand how the hamlets would be operated within the communities before they were hamlets when it was Northwest Territories Government.
They weren’t armed with enough resources to operate the hamlets.
It is good to hear that hamlets will now have adequate resources along with the passage of this Bill.
The new legislation will allow hamlets to have more power and adequate resources.
I know in Clyde River, I knew the hamlet finances were not in order for quite a while because for one thing there is no economic opportunities in the communities and the funding formulas weren’t up to date and there has been a lot of problems that rose with financial matters because resources weren’t adequate and that is why a lot of the hamlets have run into deficit situations.
And because communities are not taxed based with no revenue coming in from taxes, they don’t have any other revenue and only depend on the government and work hard to try and balance their books with limited resources.
With the problems in Clyde River, I’m glad to know that these Bills and acts especially for those non-taxed based communities will require further assistance from the Nunavut Government and I truly expect that with the passage of these bills and as I said earlier, I recognized in the House, the mayor of Qikiqtarjuaq who has been very patient, and has worked hard in drafting this Bill.
The Minister and I had discussed as to how we can have them come here while we were discussing this Bill.
The Minister’s staff, I’d like to commend them for their hard work and also their long serving employee as you hear, who has been really instrumental in helping Inuit understand the hamlets.
We have to be more proud of ourselves and that is the only way we can take on the different responsibilities that truly reflect who we are.
We are the ones who truly know what is needed in the communities.
Thank you for giving me this opportunity, Mr. Chairman.
That was a comment by Mr. Iqaqrialu.
Just before there’s another comment from the Members, does the Minister have any comments?
In the Minister’s opening comments there’s one thing that I didn’t understand.
I’m happy to say that this legislation that has been ongoing for a long time, that we will be able to talk about them today.
Mr. Chairman, this legislation has been expected by the communities for quite some time now and I’m happy to say that we will finally deal with it in this House.
I just have a few concerns.
When the hamlet takes over a program, for example, not all hamlets, but, say for instance, if a hamlet takes over housing, and they have to deal with housing in the community, there has to be a problem because they haven’t been able to let it operate effectively.
For those smaller communities, when these are empowered to the communities, those programs such as housing, there is a concern that we have in community’s, like if there’s a population of 1 thousand 800 in the community, it’s not so bad but in a smaller community the workload is a little bit to heavy for them.
That’s not the only thing.
The people who occupy housing in the corporation’s houses, there’s more of those in the communities.
I’m not saying that they’re not doing a good job but as long as an individual owes money to the hamlet, they can’t be included as a councillor.
These types of things will have to be resolved for the betterment of the hamlet councils.
The other concern that I have is, as hamlets take over programs from the Government of Nunavut, they’re not given assistance.
They take over Economic Development Officers as well and the money has to come along with the position.
I do not have very much to say, Mr. Chairman, but if I could ask a question, my question would be, in the Minister’s Opening Comments, she stated that on Page 4, in Inuktitut, she talked about the Minister’s Powers to be able to borrow long-term or to provide the Minister the power to prescribe by regulation, maximum debt limits for municipalities.
I just wanted to know what that meant.
We are looking at the two Bills, Bill 23 and Bill 24, an Act to Amend the Cities, Towns and Villages Act and as well, the Amendment to the Hamlet Act and also as well, the Act of the Hamlet and an Act to Amend the Cities, Towns and Villages Act.
We just have one city in Nunavut Region, which is here in Iqaluit, but the others are towns and villages, but they are mostly all hamlets in Nunavut communities.
So, which Act would you like to deal with first; either 23 or 24?
We are going to have to go clause by clause.
What is the wish of the Committee in dealing with which Act first?
Bill 24 deals with the Hamlet Act and Bill 23, talks about Cities, Towns and Villages Act.
Mr. Irqittuq, the question that you had: can you ask it again when we go clause by clause?
Ms. Thompson, do you have any comments?
Just to let you know that there are only three differences in the Act.
In the Cities, Towns and Villages Act, there are the City Councillors; they all change office at once and get elected together.
And the other change is to deal with the Tax-Based Municipalities or Cities and Towns.
And the Honorarium is fixed by the wishes of the councillors.
It does not matter which Act we deal with first because they are practically the same.
Chairperson (interpretation): Is it okay?
We deal with them together?
Are there any more comments from the Members, I will give them the opportunity before the questions are asked.
In the Minister’s Opening Comments and the Opening Comments from the Chairperson of the Committee, I am not with the Committee, I am not a Member of the Committee and what the Chairperson requested was that he would like the passage of those two Legislations.
A lot of people have said that there are a lot of things that we have to deal with and when their community is given empowerment the money does not come along with the empowerment and that’s the concern that we have had for quite some time and if the money is going to come along with the empowerment it should go along with the legislation.
There are 27 communities in Nunavut and they are provided with such services such as water delivery and garbage pick up and clearing of the roads.
On behalf of my constituencies I thank you for those.
Say for instance in Iqaluit, we didn’t get our garbage picked up for a long time because there was strike by the city employees and it was very unsightly at that time and I would like to give my appreciation to those people that provide those services in the communities and in the cities for providing those services for the community government.
If those people were not around, we would not have those kinds of services that we enjoy today and the Minister stated that these legislations have been in the works for a long time and one of the people that was recognized, Lootie Toomasi, is here today and its good to see that, and I just want to thank the Members and the Minister for her opening comments and I feel that we have to give thanks to those people who have provided services for us.
Next person to speak is Mr. Nutarak.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): The GNWT tried working on this while we were still under the GNWT and I think it's been a couple of years now that we’ve been working on the amendment to the Bills for Nunavut and I know everybody’s not going to be happy with the changes to the act and although anything can be rectified and as soon as we implement this Act to Amend the Cities, Towns and Villages Act, it will improve the services provided to the communities.
Although I’m sure some communities will be unhappy with some of the changes, that’s the way it is.
That’s the way people are.
There are people who are happy with and there are some people who are unhappy with it and when the majority of the people agree with the proposed act, the amendment to the act, I just wanted to clarify that to the general public who are listening to us.
I just want to make a short comment.
I’m also a Member of the Committee.
As Glen stated earlier, some of the communities have concerns in regards to these acts.
I just want to let the Minister know about one particular thing.
As we know, some of the hamlets come into deficits and this becomes a problem with the hamlet.
When they have a big deficit they no longer have a lot to work with.
I just wanted to let the Minister know that we have to support the hamlets who have problems with deficit so that their deficit can be reduced in a way that they are able to operate or function as a hamlet.
As we know, when a hamlet has a problem, their duties become overwhelming and it becomes harder to operate with the lack of funds.
As well, in terms of loans, I want the Minister to know that when it comes to loans, that when the hamlets want to get a loan, they should be kept within the parameters of their capacity to repay the loan.
We have to be aware that we have to support and carefully manage the hamlets when they have deficits.
When the hamlets have a deficit, there is a big concern on that.
That is all I wanted you to be aware of.
Chairperson (interpretation): I don’t have anybody else on my list for general comments.
Mr. Irqittuq, you can raise your question that you wanted to raise earlier in the session.
In your opening comments, I wasn’t quite sure if I understood it in the translated version of the opening remarks, page 4 in Inuktitut; I am not sure what page it is in the English version.
Page 4, first bullet, I would like clarification in respect to page 4, the first bullet, the new requirement for community agreements, or pardon me, on page 4, first bullet.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Irqittuq.
I think what he is referring to is debt financing.
The previous legislation was quite convoluted and this new set of regulations for municipalities within this proposed bill is going to clarify the maximum debt limits for municipalities.
If municipalities would like to acquire a loan, it explains in detail what the Minister has to do, with the appropriate checks and balances to ensure that they do not end up in the same situation which caused them to go into a deficit situation.
The previous legislation did not cover this portion of the powers of the municipalities when it comes to their own ability to operate as an independent community.
Perhaps in the previous years, there were problems with the municipalities paying off their loans or of defaulting on them.
Is this why the Minister has to monitor the loans closely that are being given to the communities, because of their operational history?
Does this mean that the Minister has to have the ultimate authority?