EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
The other thing I want to go back to, on the fees and payments of $25,370,000, I believe the Minister indicated that was what was paid out in total for what’s budgeted to be paid out in total for income support for that year.
I just want to clarify that $25,370,000 that that’s what all of that funding is budgeted for is for Income Support payments.
That is inclusive. The total amount there, the $25 million 370 is inclusive of all income support programs which includes the social assistance payments, as I said earlier. It also includes the Daycare User Subsidy as well as for example, the Senior Fossil Subsidy.
Mr. Chairman, can the Minister indicate how much of, for example last year, the revised Main Estimates show $23,000,621?
How much of that was specifically paid out in income support payments for social assistance?
We won’t have that figure until March 31st because that will be the year end cycle for that program.
So, when we do the accounting we’ll have it after that date.
Then also in the mains, it shows that 2003/04 actual expenditures of $21,925,000.
Does the Minister have available how much of that was paid out in the Income Support Social Assistance payments?
We will be able to have that information.
Ms. Teiman, right now is reviewing that information in the data index, and we should be able to provide that.
I am sure as the Minister knows, that the Income Support and Social Assistance is a driven program and much like a file that he is all too familiar with for the Health and Social Services, he cannot really budget what that amount is going to be.
For what they have budgeted in the past is, that amount for Income Support payments.
Had they had to increase funding in those areas in the past?
For 2003, the approximately $21 million is the figure that Mr. Tootoo was looking for earlier.
On average or given year, we have allocated amount within the Main Estimates have been sufficient for the program.
I don’t have any names written down.
Total Operation and Maintenance $36,464,000.
G-17 Education Branch Summary.
Curriculum and School Services.
Total Operations and Maintenance $9,901,000.
G-19.
On this curriculum development area in School Services, can the Minister indicate where the curriculum for the department, where they are based out of and where do they do they work from, for the record?
Does the member mean community specific?
There is one in Arviat, Pond Inlet, Kugluktuk, and in our community of Iqaluit.
Minister Picco, can you introduce your staff?
I am pleased to have with me now, the Deputy Minister, Ms. Pam Hine.
Chairman: Welcome back, Ms. Hine.
I understand for this Division there are 33 PY’s.
I am just wondering if the minister could indicate whether those positions are off held, or how many of them are vacant and why they are vacant?
We are just trying to get the information right now.
While we are waiting for that information I know that in curriculum development, if you look at the organizational chart, there is a whole Division with 33 employees dedicated to it for curriculum development.
Could the minister indicate whether any other curriculum development has taken place, has been done directly through this Division or have they contracted out for some of that work to be done?
Under the offices, there are 21 employees that are Inuit.
We have 21 employees.
The minister answered my previous question.
Now to the last question, if he could answer to that?
From time to time, some contract work is carried out.
For example just recently, we have been working with the NTEP and the students to create some materials for us.
Has the Division or the department, or the minister, have they contracted any of the work to groups outside of Nunavut to develop a curriculum for Nunavut?
For example, if we have teachers who are working in Nunavut who know curriculum resources and have created material, they may now be living in some other jurisdiction; they may have contributed some materials for the Department of Education.
Would the minister be willing to provide members of this House, a contract amounts to people outside of Nunavut that have done the curriculum work, individuals or organizations outside of the territory?
Hon. Ed Picco: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I hope to have that information in the next several days.
We have to go back to the department to see how the contract is done.
So we should be able to provide that information to the member in the coming days.
Under this area, also one of the things in there is student support.
I am just wondering if the minister can indicate what kind of student support specifically is offered through this Division.
If there are positions that are allocated, what directly, specifically for that, what they are, and what kind of support they provide?
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Tootoo. Minister Picco.
There is a range of students’ supports that are available to students across Nunavut.
First and foremost, some students’ support that is available is school counsellors in place in the schools itself.
In this budget, I am very pleased that we are looking at, there is a PY identified for Child Psychologist position.
First time in Nunavut, we have a dedicated Child Psychologist available to provide student support to our students.
I think it is again, very important.
Some of the consultative means that I’ve had across Nunavut and here in Iqaluit we talk about, we are lacking a lot of these professional services.
So this budget, for the first time identifies a PY for Child Physiologist position as part of the student support that the member has talked about.
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Minister indicated this is where the new school counsellors are.
How many school counsellors are there in Nunavut?
That is a good question because the way the school counsellors, because historically the Divisional Boards of Education funded them, in the Baffin for example, all the schools have a dedicated school counsellor position.
When you have looked at what’s occurred in the Kivalliq and the Kitikmeot, these positions weren’t funded and indeed there are very few positions located in those two regions.
When we look at the total number of positions available for school counsellor in 2004-2005, we have budgeted for 16.
Again, a good news story for Nunavummiut, there is another 15 positions that is allocated in this budget where we are going to hire another 15 positions.
So the number of counsellors will go over up to 30 in the budget.
It is one indication of the new positions that we’ve talked about in the budget.
A fundamental shift in the way we fund education.
Mr. Chairman, how many schools are there in Nunavut?
There are approximately 42 schools in Nunavut.
Again, the summaries are the increase in extra PY’s. This budget will be doing, and the member asked earlier about the support assistance, we are looking at an increase of 92 positions across Nunavut for support services.
We are looking at the increases of support teachers; an increase in language specialists. I already gave the number of school counsellors.
We are also looking at other positions like custodians and field workers.
In the past the DEA, in most cases, would pay for the workers and the Government of Nunavut will be the employer of choice for those positions.
So we will bring some stability to some of the other also, like Classroom Assistants. These people are laid off and go on unemployment.
It was hard on them.
Our proposal in the budget is to have them employed with the government.
I appreciate the minister jumping ahead in the Main Estimates.
He is alluding to questions I have with School Operations.
He must be anticipating it.
I think that is a good news story that there is an extra 15 counsellors in there.
The minister indicated there are 42 schools.
Does the minister have plans to have every school have a school counsellor within the school?
That is something that we can plan on, in seeing for the department, to move towards over the next year or two?
This is something that we looked into when I became the Minister of Education, doing a base for positions for each school.
Some of the other smaller schools have only 50 students.
Maybe, you have a part time, a .5 position for a counsellor, in that type of incidence.
I would hope that in most schools across Nunavut and most communities, we would actually have community school councillors in place, which isn’t the case today.
This budget is putting us in that direction where we’re actually increased for the first time; base funding these types of positions.
I would hope to continue that over the next couple of years.
I look forward supporting those positions as they come out in the future.
I think some of the challenges that our young people are facing, if you look at some of the drop out rate, the truancy rate, the suicide levels and all these different things that are going on out there, that there is a tremendous need for these counselling services to be available in the school system.
I know that here at the High School in Iqaluit, the Middle School is another area where, I don’t know about other communities, but here there is a tremendous need.
They could probably use about five councillors up there.
I certainly look forward to supporting these extra positions whether they come up in a supplementary or in next year’s Main Estimates or in the future.
Mr. Chairman, another area that is identified in here is the District Education Authority did development.
Can the Minister give an idea of what exactly that means?
Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the member’s acknowledgement and support for the new positions.
Again, as we roll out this new Funding Formula for schools that I’ve talked about, then we would be in a position to support more positions.
We can only put positions that we have in place in the budget right now.
I didn’t quite catch that.
Could I get the Minister to repeat that please?
In response to the member’s question, I was in concurrence with him and I also went on to say that I appreciate his support for the funding mechanisms that we’re trying to put in place under the new School Funding Formula, to address some of the issues that the member has raised not only today, but over the past several months in the House during this term and in the previous term.
That’s pretty much what I heard.
My question is that, it also talks about the District Education Authority development in there under this area.
Can the Minister elaborate on exactly what that is and what it means and what they do?
There are different types of fundamental work that has been carried on and continues to be done with District Education Authorities.
This could be Board Governance workshops as well as administrative book keeping supports and so on.
We actually had a District Education Authority meeting where I met all the Chairs of different District Education Authorities from the different regions.
During that time, this past fall for example, the District Education Authority Chairs would then come together and they do workshops around financial issues, around administrative issues of District Education Authority’s funding, Board of Governance issues.
So, it’s almost like professional development for District Education Authorities.
There is also other work that goes on for the District Education Authorities.
For example, work with the processes for book keeping with staff of District Education Authorities and so on.
So it’s a pretty encompassing program.
I would just like to ask the minister, have any District Education Authorities approached the department or the appropriate staff within the department looking to take on more authority and responsibility and powers as outlined in the Act, that they have available to them?
Has the Minister received any requests from any of the District Education Authorities to look at any of these empowerment issues, and then would that flow through this area here?
There are usually two processes for District Education Authority empowerment issues.
One is to come directly through, from the District Education Authority Chair, to the Department of Education and up through to the minister.
The second process that I am aware of that has occurred in the past, is where it actually came in through the local Member of the Legislative Assembly, and then from that, through the minister.
I haven’t been accessed or contacted by any District Education Authority to have enhancements of the legislative authority or indeed empowerment under the current Act.
There’s more disempowerment. I will just mention that now, and promise the minister that I will touch base with it when we get to School Operations.
Aside from professional development, are there any other supports that are made available as far as resources to the District Education Authorities?
Hon. Ed Picco: Again, Mr. Chairman, there are profession development resources that are made available for bookkeeping and so on, accounting procedures, then there are also the monetary resources that are made to the District Education Authorities.
I know one thing that was a concern in the past with the District Education Authorities was the dissolution of the Divisional Boards of Education. The District Education Authorities pretty much lost their liaison.
That was their resource when they had concerns or questions about anything, and I believe it was a couple of years ago there was a movement to try and establish some type of a District Education Authority, territorial organization so that they could support and help each other out with some areas.
Some District Education Authorities have been more successful than others in certain areas, to be able to check with each other on, and be there for each other.
Would the minister be willing to entertain us in looking into something like this in the very near future?
Hon. Ed Picco: Through the decentralization process, after the integration and the amalgamation of the Education Boards in the regional RSOs, we have set up District Education Authority support offices, who would work with the local District Education Authorities.
At time to time, the Regional Superintendents for the Department of Education in these offices contacted the District Education Authorities either with somebody through conference calls.
Then any request that the District Education Authority has is facilitated through those regional offices.
When I met with the District Education Authority Chairs for Qikiqtani, for example this past fall, there were no concerns raised that there weren’t any supports coming from the Regional Office.
Indeed, they were quite complimentary on some of the supports that they were receiving from the Department of Education and from the Regional Offices.
By due course, many of the things that the member has asked for, does occur at the present time.
I am trying to get ahead or think ahead to what’s going to be happening over the next few years with the development of the Education Act.
I know that since this was a departmental-driven project, in some cases the District Education Authorities didn’t feel comfortable in going in and questioning the departmental staff on it.
I was told the first ramifications for departmental staff were told not to not to say anything about the Act and its development.
So I guess maybe just in that light, can the minister commit to having some type of resources available, whether it is just through the Education Act development that the department is going to undertake to allow the DEAs to network?
If they feel that they need it, seek outside support in dealing with any of the changes identified in legislation.
We can commit to doing that, Mr. Chairman.
I will be asking a question.
First of all, I would like to say that I am not opposed with the Qallunaat, as of course, we work very well together.
I do have a concern about why the Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit head, in Pond Inlet is a Qallunaaq.
How does it work when the head of the Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit system is a Qallunaaq?
Hon. Ed Picco (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I am sorry, I don’t get it.
The employees in Pond Inlet are Inuit.
Who are we referring to?
I am not going to say the name, but why is the Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit Coordinator, or the curriculum development person for Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit is Qallunaaq?
Hon. Ed Picco (interpretation): I still don’t understand it.
The Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit Coordinator is here working in Iqaluit and this individual is an Inuk.
The Qikiqtani School Operations is in Pond Inlet and we have no problems with that individual.
How does it work when we have a Qallunaaq in the school curriculum development?
Just for clarification purposes, when we look at the curriculum development for Nunavut, we are looking at a public school service system across Nunavut, which is K-12, which is inclusive of English, French, and mostly in Inuktitut
Under the Department of Education we have dedicated staffs, who work on Inuktitut curriculum.
We have Qallunaaq staff that might be doing work on other types of curriculum.
We also have elders, especially for example in Arviat office, who actually come in and work very tirelessly on incorporating Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit within the processes there, that the member had seen when we were in Arviat.
The head of curriculum services right now is not an Inuk, but I don’t think it would belittle the opportunity that that person has.
Indeed, that person has had many years in education in Nunavut.
Mr. Barnabas (interpretation): I still don’t understand, Mr. Chairman.
They work with Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit, dealing with Inuit knowledge.
How does she converse with the elders and how does she communicate with the elders?
She is the senior manager for Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit, although her subordinates are Inuit, how does she try and get information from the elders when she’s working on the curriculum?
Hon. Ed Picco (interpretation): It appears to make no sense, Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit, in the Department of Education is an Inuk.
Ann Mullin is originally from the High Arctic.
Yes, the curriculum development services, yes, we do have a non-Inuk, but she has been here for many, many years.
(Interpretation ends) The work that has been done by the curriculum development services in Arviat, I think that we’ve done some very, very good work there.
Maybe the member from Arviat can speak about some of the good work that goes on with the Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit and the elders that come in there on a regular basis.
I think we’ve done some good stuff there.
I don’t think that’s impeded by having the director of curriculum services, being a non-Inuk, in this case.
I would suggest to you that curriculum services across Nunavut, K-12 have to incorporate English, Inuktitut and French.
In this case, the director of curriculum services is a long time northern Nunavut educator, and has done a very good job on curriculum development services.
I don’t think we should be knocking her because she’s not Inuk.
She does have many Inuit with her, and we have Inuit elders who have committed and done a fantastic job for us from Arviat, at the curriculum development process and actually go in on a regular basis.
Mr. Barnabas, Thank you.
In this area here too, she is responsible for the monitoring and evaluation of student achievement.
I’m just wondering if the minister could give an outline of exactly what that means, and what’s done in that area.
Hon. Ed Picco: Mr. Chairman, part of the program under the Department of Education is to decentralize into Panniqtuuq.
We’ve identified several positions in Panniqtuuq that will be decentralized.
That includes a student assessment coordinator, program evaluation officers, student records register, and student records clerk, as an example.
The position of the student assessments coordinator is looking at student assessments across Nunavut within the curriculum development services itself.
That could be from the development and implementation, some of the criteria in testing that we’ve talked about and so on.
I guess the question that begs to be asked is in this area of monitoring evaluation, student achievement, would one, just in the title of it, think that this area would be looking at standards, require standards and whether students are meeting those standards at different levels throughout the system.
This is part of what we’ve been talking about.
At the present time across the board in Nunavut, we don’t have the type of criteria and standard programming or testing that I believe should be in place.
I’ve talked to the member about this before and the members.
I believe that we should implement the criteria and standard testing program at grade 3, grade 6, and grade 9.
So, when you get to grade 3, criteria and tests would be delivered.
Can you add, subtract, multiply and divide? Can you identify a whole number?
Can you write a whole sentence with a subject, a predicate with a verb and an adjective, a capital letter and period?
Those types of criterion standards are in place. Grades 3, 6, and 9 would help us address some of the issues that we heard over the last couple of days during the education debate.
We have tasked the NTEP students to work with us and we are in the process right now to develop that criterion standard test that I have talked about for Grade 3.
It is a great relief that the minister supports this idea.
I know in the past he didn’t seem to support.
I am glad he supports this initiative now. I think, as he has indicated, that it will go a long way to identifying discrepancies if you want to call it that or loop holes in the system.
I think that is something the minister and the staff should really look at when they are developing this.
These types of standards, assessment, and testing that he is talking about.
When they are not testing the students they are not testing the teachers.
They are testing the system, trying to identify areas in the system that may not be as strong in other areas. Therefore and thus, give us the opportunity to identify those areas and try to find ways to improve, identify, and fix and the system for the benefit of all our students.
The thinking, I guess the Minister and his staff have in mind in their approach to this area.
Mr. Chairman, I’ve always believed in criterion standard testing.
What I haven’t agreed with was standardized testing.
Standardized testing is completely different and the criterion standards for standards that are in place for grades.
Standardized testing that the member is talking to is to try to test students in standardized testing, against the same cohort of students whether it be in Alberta or other jurisdiction.
I don’t see the benefit of standardized testing.
I do see the merit and benefit of criterion standard.
That criterion standard would also be available in Grade 3 in Inuktitut, again in Grade 6 and 9.
I think that is the process to move towards.
So I would agree with the member is the other comments that he is saying.
Again, that is the direction that the department is doing.
Mr. Chairman, I think a good point was made by my colleague from Coral Harbour earlier today, in his Member’s Statement, talking about someone who was having a tougher time, having gone through the system here and when they try and attend a post-secondary education, they had a tougher time.
He said, he isn’t sure if he is going to be accepted because of his grades and course availability and things like that.
The Minister said he doesn’t believe in a standard test.
I think and believe that our students in Nunavut deserve the quality and the level of education is the same if not better, in any other jurisdiction in Canada.
I really urge the Minister, not to develop some type of dummied-down criterion testing that would maybe make the numbers look good here, but really don’t mean anything.
I’ve seen in a number of areas in the past where courses seem to be watered down, there are different levels and it goes down.
I think in our education system, one cannot afford a lower standard and I think that needs to be taken into consideration in any development of any type of testing, it doesn’t matter whether you are a student here or in Alberta.
It should be the same.
We should have the same skills.
I would really urge the minister to take that into account, and I look forward to hearing about the development on that in the future.