EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Mr. Curley: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think we need to go beyond that. Mr. Chairman, that we will not only look into it, but I think it is a good idea that the regular private sector homeowners out in Nunavut are given information about what energy saving ideas there are.
We just don’t have homeowners’ groups, or associations, or bodies representing, although there may be in large sectors like here in Iqaluit and so on.
My point is that we desperately need advice and help to reduce energy consumption.
Everybody wants a reduction, but not only the public sector, government is well able to afford to pay high energy prices, where the homeowners have very difficult times finding ways of lessening the impact of the energy at the home. And yet we do not see.
We get a good promise, “We will look into it.” A homeowner wants more than that.
Homeowners want an idea as to how to replace a furnace. I just sent the minister a note saying that I have applied to replace a 20-year old furnace each year and we get rejected; they do not qualify. Why is that, Mr. Chairman?
We have a renovation for homeowners’ houses.
Some of the requests are denied because of the ceilling in the income and we give first priority if it is health or safety-related; those are given the first priority.
There are quite a lot of applications that pass through the Housing Corporation, but I am sure that there is room for improvement in regard to renovating private homes. We will be reviewing this in the coming days, months.
In regard to the Eco Trust Fund that is $5 million, especially this $5 million and in regard to the Residual Heat Project and Conversion, why is it in Executive and Intergovernmental Affairs because I would assume that it would be better suited with Community and Government Services?
To the Premier, please.
[Yes, we deal with this on an annual basis; the use of funds for this is unique. This money is set aside to be used for various programs and also to decrease the use of fuel.
Some are for housing and some for energy, so for those various reasons that is why it goes through our Department of Executive and Intergovernmental Affairs.
Yes, I agree with you wholeheartedly that there have to be more programs and support available to the homeowners and there’s $700,000 that has been set aside to assist them.
In view of the use of fuel, the government uses the most fuel, and homeowners make up only seven percent and we are trying to maximize the funds for these intended purposes.
The question is how we can cut down on the use of fossil fuel.
We have to view Nunavut as a whole, as a government.
We are going to be looking at how we can cut costs to these energy-related issues. I am very happy with this program.]
Mr. Curley (interpretation): I would like to thank you.
One thing that I’m concerned about, and I’m sure all of the programs are great, but when it’s under Executive and Intergovernmental Affairs, I’m sure that every request has to go through the Planning Committee.
If it’s under Executive and Intergovernmental Affairs, under the direction of the Premier, are they funds fairly allocated?
Are we using a fair process, or if you oppose it, then there won’t be much you can do, especially if it’s under Executive and Intergovernmental Affairs and it has to go through the CGS Planning Committee.
I didn’t hear a question, Minister Simailak.
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As government departments, we have to work closely.
We are starting to find out how we can align it better and we would like to see more ideas on reducing energy consumption, getting ideas from the departments.
It’s all part of the planning process and we’re right in the middle.
We are not representing any particular department. What we are trying to look at is a program that would be good for all of Nunavut.
Just on the Residual Heat Projects; I know they were mentioned earlier in response to another member’s question. To me, those sound like capital projects. I’m just wondering if there’s a reason why they’re in O&M supplementary and not in a capital supplementary because I would have thought that those would be capital projects.
The conditions of the Eco Trust... because of federal funding, there was no specific criteria that it would be capital or operations and maintenance.
The main criterion is that we reduce the reliance on greenhouse emissions; that type of thing. So that was the primary criteria that we’re trying to adhere to from the federal side of it.
Yes, these projects are somewhat capital in nature, but they should, in the long-term, short-term even, reduce our reliance on greenhouse gas emissions. It’s a tongue twister for me.
Even if it doesn’t specify how those are spent, it sounds like, looks like, and probably is a capital project.
What was the rationale behind... if there were no criteria from the federal government, whether it is a capital or an O&M project, why was it decided to stick it in the O&M supplementary and not the capital supplementary?
Hon. David Simailak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, to Mr. Ma, please.
From the perspective of the government, even though these projects are capital in nature, the Residual Heat Projects are ultimately going to be done by the Qulliq Energy Corporation.
So from the perspective of the government, this is actually an operations and maintenance expenditure. When it gets down to the QEC level, yes, they certainly would be capital in nature.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Ma. Mr. Tootoo.
That was a good answer, Mr. Ma. Thank you, very much.
Mr. Chairman, my next question is for something that is actually not in here.
I know in our winter session when we were discussing the budget, the O&M budget for the departments, a question then that I asked in the past to the Minister responsible for EIA was the fact that we were looking at their budget that showed the whole departmental budget, even though a decision had been made to transfer some of those positions to the Department of Finance.
At the time, the Premier had indicated when I asked that, he said, “... oh, you will see that change in the spring sitting, in the supplementary appropriation.”
So at that time I had told myself to remember to look for it, to see how much that was when we get to our spring sitting. I fore took to remember. I wanted to see what those numbers were and how it affected their O&M budget, and they’re not in here.
So I’m wondering if sometime later this week we’re going to see another supplementary appropriation budget that would show that because I know that the Premier did indicate at that time that we would be seeing it here in this sitting.
Yes, to Mr. Ma, please.
Perhaps that responsibility rests with me to answer the member’s question.
I have worked on the request for the decision and we will be bringing signatures and bringing that forward to the Financial Management Board.
The tardiness in dealing with that squarely rests with me.
When, and I would assume if you look in Finance, too, there’s nothing there... I know that affects both departments, and also the Department of Health and Social Services.
I am wondering if he can give us an indication as to when we will know what those numbers are.
Yes, we will be bringing those numbers to the June FMB Meeting.
Chairman: Thank you, Minister. Thank you, Mr. Tootoo.
Very interesting responses from the minister’s staff, as well.
My concern with that is many of the items that we have seen, including the ones that we just passed as capital.
My concern is that I think that some of the project management initiatives that should be carried out are not fully utilized in terms of planning.
We normally adopt, nowadays, a huge lump sum of money; quite a large amount prior to any of the design phase or planning done.
I truly believe that his committee is going to have to ask for an independent person, like the Auditor General, to look into all the processes and see whether or not the design phase of project management criteria; they’re all applied.
We have seen huge project funding approved without any design, without any consultant studies, or anything.
The same thing with this; I don’t believe that QEC has project management design staff. CGS, obviously, has all that project management, as well as the planning group in their department.
And yet huge amounts like this are allocated, and say this is the QEC’s responsibility.
Can the minister tell us exactly whether or not CGS has any input, or involvement in terms of project management with the amount like $5 million for energy-related projects?
I want to thank the member for his support of the Residual Heat Project. As I said earlier, the project in his home constituency is going to save thousands of tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions. That was done under the auspices of the Power Corporation.
It does have a technical and planning group, under the engineering section of the Power Corporation. So that capital planning is there.
If project management is needed outside of that, because it is a Crown corporation, a business, a company, then the corporation has the opportunity and the ability to be able to bring in that type of expertise.
My other question really has to do with ensuring that the fact that there appears to be, either by intent, the role of CGS, in terms of planning and contract management, pretty much shifted over to the energy corporation.
CGS has all the legal requirements in terms of putting out a tender, and everything else. It’s clearly stipulated under certain contract rules and so on.
I am wondering, if you look at... it may be energy-related but it doesn’t mean that QEC is the most appropriate group to project manage that whole thing, and tender and carry out all the responsibility needed to get these designs and everything else into this project.
So I am wondering, minister, if, eventually, it’s more efficient for QEC rather than CGS to administer those projects?
Minister Simailak
Again, the QEC is a Crown corporation; it has the ability to manage its own capital projects aside the scope of using CGS. However, if there were issues, they have technical advice and assistance that could be provided through CGS or any other government department, and of course, that’s well welcomed by the corporation.
The corporation has, every year, a several million dollar capital budget and is able to carry that out quite efficiently as a corporation.
Mr. Curley: I only have one more question under what was in the response.
But originally, when it was a single territory, Power Corporations were exempt from the NNI Policy.
Can the minister indicate to the House whether or not that is still the case, or has the Power Corporation legislation been amended to include NNI provisions or employment provisions?
They were clearly exempt in the original Power Corporation projects.
The member is correct. In the old Northwest Territories, there were issues around the NNI Policy, which was specific in regard to the Nunavut Sovereigned area, when it came to looking at purchases and so on that would give priority under the NNI Policy.
It was thought that time that the Power Corporation should be outside or not compliant to that. With the leadership of the Premier, Mr. Chairman, I can say that the corporation has reviewed that, and indeed, is compliant today.
Not previously authorized. $6,400,000.
Chairman: Thank you. Total Intergovernmental Affairs.
Chairman: Thank you. Devolution. Total Devolution.
Not previously authorized. $125,000.
Chairman: Thank you. Total Department. $6,525,000.
Chairman: Thank you. Page 5.
Not previously authorized. -$250,000.
I’m just wondering if the minister can indicate when the decision for this transfer was made.
There was nothing that has been brought to the attention of standing committee or the other Members of the House. I was wondering if we could get an indication as to when.
Yes, this was effective in the beginning of the new fiscal year, April 1.
Was the decision for this transfer made at the same time as the decision to transfer the positions from EIA and Health to Finance as well?
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Was this one before or after the other decision?
I shouldn’t have to go into that much detail.
We’re pretty sure it was before.
I’m just wondering if there is a reason why it wasn’t brought to the standing committee’s attention for the transfer and also the justification behind the transfer. It’s something we haven’t heard anything about yet, officially.
Hon. David Simailak: Thank you. To the Premier, please.
This issue had been on discussion for some time, and over the last few years it has become apparent that one branch of government can’t be selling the liquor and at the same time enforcing the laws against it.
We had discussed for some time that it was becoming difficult for one department to sell the stuff and also enforce those same laws against the liquor. So we decided to separate the functions where the Finance Department will continue to sell and tax liquor but Justice will be enforcing the laws in relation to liquor infractions. So that’s why we separated the functions.
Page 5. Bill 11.
Not previously authorized.-$250,000.
Chairman: Total Financial Management. -$250,000.
Chairman: Next page. Page 6.
Justice. Operations and Maintenance. Directorate.
Not previously authorized. $250,000.
Mr. Alagalak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Under Lawyer Support Services, $320,000.
The $80,000; Senior Public Trustee Officer: where is the office going to be?
For those people who die without a will, they have to go through the Public Trustee, and they are getting behind with their workload here in Iqaluit, and that person will be assisting the Public Trustee.
For those people who have passed on without a will, they have to go through the Public Trustee. They are getting behind because of the workload that they have now.
The other one, $240,000; for the legislation counsel; where is that office going to be?
It will be in the Iqaluit office. That’s where we have to consolidate Nunavut’s Acts and regulations.
They have a hard time because they are behind as to what we have to do.
It is also to simplify for our constituents so they can be responded to in a shorter time to assist them.
I wonder if the law students, who just graduated, if they apply, I wonder if they would qualify.
It will be open to anybody.
They already have jobs, but maybe if there are more students that take courses we would be able to hire.
Chairman: Thank you, Premier. (interpretation) We are on page 6 of Bill 11. (interpretation ends) Justice.
Chairman: Thank you. Law Enforcement.
Not previously authorized. $163,000.
Chairman: Total Law Enforcement.
Chairman: Lawyers Support Services.
Not previously authorized. $320,000.
Chairman: Total Lawyer Support Services.
Not previously authorized. $1,752,000.
Mr. Curley: Thank you. (interpretation) We just approved under capital projects for $1 million under corrections for a female offenders facility.
It is probably to that facility and that project will only be finished in the summertime.
I wonder if they will require $700,000 for operating costs because it has not even opened. The female offender’s facility will be completed in 2008.
In the past, the women are usually put in the trailer, which is an old part of Baffin Correctional Centre. We have used that money and we will have to use it again before that women’s offender facility is completed.
On the same page, that $1,752,000, it also says it’s for the outpost camps. How much would the outpost camps get?
We want to see more outpost camps because there aren’t that many of them. There will be $188,000, and $391,000 will be for shipping and to house inmates outside of our jurisdiction.
So that is the total amount, $1,044,000.
As I do the math there; there’s $188,000 for the outpost camps, $391,000 for housing inmates outside of our jurisdiction, and thirdly, about $465,000, would that be the cost of escorting; it costs that much? Maybe if you could just explain how come it’s so high?
I guess the overall thing is that if it’s over the existing budget that the department had for that already.
So you’re getting more demand on having to send people out, is it because we’re too full, or are there people that have to serve federal time or people that can’t be served here in our jurisdiction?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) As you probably read in the papers, it has been a very difficult time for the Baffin Correctional Centre with a lot of overcrowding. So we’ve had to take measures to transport quite a considerable number of inmates outside the territory, and it’s not cheap.
Sometimes we have to charter planes out just to manage the level of inmates and maintain a balance both for the inmates and the employees. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Page 6 of Bill 11.
Chairman: Total Corrections.
Just for a quick clarification on this page on the first section there, it says, “... to provide funding of $222,000 for the implementation of the Family Abuse Intervention Act,” and further down it has, “... to provide funding of $1,643,000 for the implementation of the Family Abuse Intervention Act.”
I’m just wondering: that’s two different places and I don’t know if there are others in there, but I’m trying to get an indication of what the total cost of implementing the Family Abuse Intervention Act entirely is going to be.
From what I understand, the total budget for this fiscal year will be as set out at $1,953,000 for this fiscal year overall to implement this initiative, to get the training going, and to actually start implementing it by the year’s end.
So that’s what we’re trying to do. It’s going to require training of JPs and training at the local level as well to implement this legislation. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
So that’s $1,953,000 plus the $220,000 up under Registraties and Court Services. That’s the only amounts; if you add those two together you get a little over $2 million for that effect of total cost?
Hon. David Simailak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To the Premier, please.
From my understanding it will be roughly around $1.9 million in future years to implement on an ongoing basis. We’re going to have local employees everywhere, in every community in Nunavut, to implement this legislation.
So this year it’s a little over $2 million, and then the same every year from now it’s going to be $1.9 million.
I just want to make sure I understand this correctly. Just for clarification. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) From what I understand that is the correct answer. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
On page 7.
Under Registries and Court Services, there’s an amount to provide funding of $200,000 for a land titles officer and a legal registries officer to handle increased demand from the public.
Can the minister tell us how many land titles officers and legal registries officers that currently are in the Registries and Court Services Department?
Hon. Paul Okalik: I don’t have all that detailed information as to how many but we’re trying to hire additional employee services. The member may know there has been a bit of a back log in some of the work that was required.
But at the same time we’re trying to modernize and finalize the modernization of the equipment used, so that’s what we’re trying to do in this fiscal year.
It’s been a bit of an issue in my riding where there have been delays in processing legal documents. I have been in contact with the minister and the department to express my concern from their end.
I know not all of the difficulties rest with the land titles officer and the legal registries officer. When the paperwork comes in from the lawyers and communities or hamlets, if it’s not done up, if it’s not detailed and all the I’s dotted and Ts crossed, then that paperwork could end up going back to lawyers and to the hamlets resulting in substantial delays, as much as two to three months.
I attended a Nunavut Housing Corporation public meeting about a month ago where that very issue came up where prospective homeowners were told by the officials there, the Housing Corporation officials, the bank and some other officials, that you couldn’t move into your house right away if you bought it because it could take two to three months to turn the paperwork around.
I’m concerned about the delay.
I’m wondering if the minister could comment that, if he thinks by adding these additional PYs that those delays will be addressed, with the extra people and more efficient operations.
The member is perfectly correct in that it’s not always a legal registries problem, but at the same time, we do not in any way want to be a part of the problem.
There has been a real increase in activity throughout Nunavut. Since we were created a lot more transactions have been taking place.
The original forecast for the level of work in this registries office was fine for the times, but more activity is taking place in Nunavut, which is good.
We will require additional help so that we don’t be a part of the problem.
We want to be making sure that transactions are carried out in a timely manner so that business will continue.
We want to continue to encourage efficient and effective registries so that we can have more business transactions throughout Nunavut.
We are page H-11. Bill 11.
Not previously authorized. $942,000.
Further down.
This is very well-welcomed in the communities; the implementation of the Family Abuse Intervention Act. However, I am curious.
This implementation or planning of the implementation; how will it be dealt with if there is family abuse?
Can the minister tell me if that is at the planning stage, how long does he think it will take because he told us that there will be one person employed in each community.
So the guidelines will be drawn within that period of time, and as soon as we approve this funding, then it will start being proceeded immediately?
I must correct myself. I was relying on different sheets of paper when we were discussing this earlier.
The first year of operation will be about $1.86 million for training and work required.
The way it’s going to work so far that we know of, the work is ongoing.
We currently have half-time community justice workers throughout Nunavut. We will make those full-time employees and they will have offices throughout the RCMP in Nunavut, so they’ll have a physical location.
Currently, they don’t have a physical location to even call an office. They work out of their homes.
The families affected will have a location to go to and at the same time they’ll know a phone number to call. At the same time, we’re working with each of the Community Justice Committees and identifying elderly counsellors who will be assisting us in implementing and healing in the communities.
So that work is ongoing. The ongoing work that will be required will total about $2.8 million a year after this.
I must say that this is an investment.
You saw our corrections budget.
It’s a hefty bill, and I want to reduce that, as I’m sure you do, by making sure the families are healed so that they don’t have to go to jail. So this is an investment for families and for our territory.
Thank you, Mr. Premier for this energy that will be spent in implementing the Family Abuse Intervention Act.
People are waiting for it, especially the elders.
The way it has to work is that it is workable in the community. I don’t think we can afford to make instructions from the headquarters here. We tried that with social services and it does not work.
We tried that with the counsellors and it does not work.
The communities are unique to Nunavut. Right now we have a social worker from pretty far away from Canada and it doesn’t work to counsel people in Pond Inlet because it’s not relevant.
So I welcome the Premier’s comment and that some elders are now staying with other families because their grandchildren are abusing them in their own home.
The abuse system is a social issue and it is not acceptable. It has to work the way the community sees it.
I really hope that this will go as fast as it can, and I encourage the Premier to actually visit some communities and show support to elders to encourage them to start speaking out like we do in the House.