EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
There are asset rules as well.
For disabled clients, you are allowed to have assets. As well, we have bank account exemption for $5,000. If we have a disabled client and they have $5,000 in savings, they are able to keep that money.
There is a whole list of rules and exemptions in which we need to look at very carefully because they all have a financial consideration. If we change them, it will cost money.
Actually, I will look forward to seeing some further detailed information on that so that I can kind of fit it into my own mind.
On Friday, Mr. Chairman, if you will allow my indulgence, I spoke to the senior assistance benefit program.
At that time, I was strongly recommending to the minister to find an opportunity to speak with her federal counterparts at looking at exploring ways to assist our elders in living a healthy lifestyle.
Going over the Blues and the response, and my apologizes, Mr. Chairman, I was fairly ill on Friday, so I didn’t digest full intent of the response saying that the Premier now, as he alluded to today, was taking on a lot of the elder support program from a GN-wide perspective.
Yet, in the response, she said that the Premier will be talking about elder and elder support and how their lives are being affected, and she alluded to a speech the Premier will be making.
Maybe if I could get a little clarification on what she meant by a speech that the Premier is going to be making about elder support.
What he brings up was already brought up in the House by the Premier regarding a national elders gathering that he will take part in.
I believe that’s what he’s referring to.
Chairman: Mr. Hickes, asking for clarification.
Mr. Hickes: Yes, Mr. Chairman, that’s the way I understand it.
I don’t think we’re understanding each other.
I was alluding to when the Premier stated that he was going to be lobbying on behalf of seniors from Nunavut.
My apologies for the confusion, Minister Ugyuk.
One of the concerns I have with that statement is that I have previously attended federal, provincial, and territorial meetings, not for Family Services obviously, but for different portfolios with other ministers.
It’s one of the few venues that we’ve got where everyone from across Canada is sitting at a table, including federal counterparts that are responsible for that specific focus or program or federal department.
I wouldn’t want to lose an opportunity for any minister to speak on behalf of their portfolio at that table where you are waiting for a premier to lobby the federal government.
I would just like to get some assurances from the minister that she will continue lobbying on behalf of the Government of Nunavut for supplemental benefits for our elders.
We have received that comment. We are trying to review all of the ideas that we can bring into our support system.
I totally support what he is saying and we won’t turn our backs on that idea.
I thank you for that assurance.
I was just going back to a question that Mr. Rumbolt asked on Friday regarding updated policy and proposed legislation to change the Social Assistance Act.
It speaks to three different areas of compliance: expenditure control, transitional support, and a framework for social assistance rates.
What I didn’t see in the minister’s response was a commitment on a timeline, and I’ll quote.
It says, “We are trying to stay away from when we are going to finish things because we are not meeting so many deadlines. As you know, the department is just starting.”
I have brought this up previously in the House and I’m sure we all realize that the Department of Family Services is fairly new as a division from health and family services, but at the same time, the work has been ongoing since Nunavut was created.
I have a concern with not being able to put a timeline to something as important as the review of the Social Assistance Act.
I was wondering if the minister has had a chance over the weekend to maybe look at a proposed timeline to get this work completed.
Reviews have deadlines and I would like my (interpretation ends) deputy minister (interpretation) to talk about the deadlines.
We love to have timelines so that we know when we are to finish reviewing or meetings or documents or actions.
What we are dealing with today is the business plan for 2014 and from 2015-16, so we are starting that already.
We would like to have the bulk of the information for 2016 before this government is done so that the government can start to see what it has been working on.
We are trying to work in same line as that. Hopefully, in 2015-16, I would like to see a lot of issues that we are dealing with that we want to review.
I’m very concerned about review, review, review, meetings, meetings, meetings. I think my staff is getting tired of me saying those things.
I’m right with you, but timelines that I would like to see is before this government is done so you could see your Sivumut Abluqta document is being implemented. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I do thank you for the response, and I understand that coming from a policy position in the past and how much work actually goes in behind the scenes.
When a member asks a question, we expect the answer right away and it’s not always reality, but it makes it easier for us to follow up with the department on making sure that timelines are being met or we will know when to keep giving little nudges here and there.
I’ll leave that one alone for now, Mr. Chairman.
The next question I have is from a response from Mr. Grant on Friday.
He spoke of a presentation that has been delivered to the DM of the Quality of Life Committee, which is the oversight committee for social assistance reform.
Now that that is along the same lines as my previous question, maybe if I could get just a little bit more detail from the minister or one of her officials on how that oversight committee on social assistance reform is playing into this review, how much of an impact that information is going to have, and some clarity on the consultation process.
The DM Quality of Life Committee is the oversight committee, so I have presented to the committee on some of the areas in which I feel we can make changes now.
I want to be clear that we’re not waiting for the public engagement process to start for making positive changes now, including deploying our system aggressively this past year and into the future, so that we can have greater financial oversight as well as making changes within our regulations. We’re expecting from our lawyer to have proposed changes to our regulations very soon.
What we’re looking for from the DM Quality of Life is to provide the scope of the public engagement process. We’re still compiling feedback from the DM Quality of Life where they will provide how big the public engagement process is and what it’s going to look like.
We are yet to have the completed information on that, but we would be happy to provide the members once that is complete.
When Mr. Grant mentions positive changes that are being currently implemented that they are not waiting for the review, it might alleviate some of the concerns that myself and other members have had, maybe just a bit more detail on what some of those positive changes are that they are not waiting for the review to be made.
We attend meetings to see what areas we can change.
The (interpretation ends) Quality of Life (interpretation) Committee meets independently and we are not involved with that. The Department of Education, the Nunavut Housing Corporation, as well as other departments are involved. If we are going to be making changes, we have to make changes with the approval of those departments.
In order to get a better understanding of the changes we’re trying to make, I’ll have Brandon Grant elaborate on that.
As I mentioned before, I think that one of the positive highlights is the rapid deployment in the last year of the income assistance delivery system, the case management system, which allows us to catch and prevent more and more issues each and every day when we are doing income verification, whether it’s supporting our clients.
Clients that could be eligible for employment insurance versus income assistance, we are able to identify that so that they are able to get better benefits offered through employment insurance.
We have been successful in deploying to Rankin Inlet, Arviat, Baker Lake, Cambridge Bay, and as of the last day or so, in Igloolik as well.
As well, we have looked at programs, including the Senior Citizen Supplementary Benefit. We have put forward a proposal to make, I think, a very positive change where we have looked at providing a cost of living index going back to the last increase for the Senior Citizen Supplementary Benefit Program offered through income assistance.
We have made changes to our statutory training program as well as our system deployment training program.
As I mentioned before, we are coming forward with regulation changes that we know need change now, including as previous members have talked about is around liquid asset exemptions. There is a variety of different things that are happening now in our business plan.
We have really made a priority for our system deployment, get our training program up and running and working effectively to get our frontline workers with the information and training they need, as well as continuing on with the changes that we need and regulations right now.
Those are the top three priorities for our division in conjunction with the review as well.
I thank Mr. Grant for that detailed response; I appreciate it.
A number of questions have been raised regarding the abuse of income assistance programs.
One of the things that I noted and the budget hasn’t changed for some time is $240,000 allocated to program compliance.
With a lot of these new initiatives that are being undertaken to make sure that the income support assistance program is compliant and is working to maximum efficiency, is this amount sufficient?
There are a number of new initiatives that are being implemented, yet the money hasn’t been changed for as far back as I can see.
The Department of Family Services has data clerks now.
Many communities don’t have a lot of infrastructure for computers, but we are installing computers into communities that can bring them in.
Brandon Grant can respond in more detail.
Of course, we are increasing capacity with income assistance within our compliance branch. Two new positions have been created under corporate management for a finance manager position with an income assistance focus primarily on income assistance - we see that as a very good step in the right direction - as well as a finance officer position that will be created as well.
We see that as an area in which Family Services is building capacity. There will be greater financial oversight within income assistance. We are very pleased that those two positions will be coming forth for our department.
As well, as we continue to deploy the system, it’s providing us a window into the communities and what’s going on, so we’re able to support our communities better.
Over the last year, with the increased amount of communities that have deployed, it has allowed us to have greater oversight and ensure that the program rules are being followed and complied with.
We feel that we’re making progress.
With the members’ support, we will be able to get two new positions within our department that are going to help with program compliance and financial oversight.
I have one final question.
When you’re talking about career development opportunities for income support recipients, in turn, that can lead to accessing different funding programs like FANS as an example.
As we’re all aware of, one standalone support program doesn’t necessarily always meet the needs of the client.
What impact does accessing other funding supports through career development have on income support recipients?
The Career Development Division can provide tremendous support to income support clients, as they can access training courses, such as (interpretation ends) adult learning and training (interpretation) funding, or if they go through the FANS program, they are able to access those funds.
The career development listed here has the objective for Family Services to lower the number of clients currently on income support.
I would like Brandon Grant to respond in more detail to the member’s question.
I think our minister has covered some excellent points. I think where we’re trying to make strides in is making sure that the referral process is better between our income assistance clients and moving over to career development.
A big issue as well, really, is making sure that our income assistance clients that are coming into our offices are applying for employment insurance before they’re accessing income assistance because that will provide them with not only part 1 funding but part 2 funding through career development that will allow them to access some of these great programs through the Career Development Division.
What we’re looking at is, as the member stated and pointed out, we’ve got three areas in which we’re looking at significant reform around income assistance and, that is, really tailoring and making sure that we take advantage of the opportunities.
Family Services is making sure that there are seamless services for our clients that come in looking for supports for one program and are able to access through another program seamlessly. The work is ongoing. We’ve had good meetings.
So far, we have identified areas in which we can make changes. One of those changes is better integrating our two case management systems. The Career Development Division has an ISAAC system that they are just developing in their FANS database onto that system.
We are hoping that very soon, those two systems can be integrated so that we can provide that seamless service to the people of Nunavut.
Although most of the questions that I wanted to ask have already been posed, I have a brief question.
Are we on D-6?
Maybe I’m a bit confused and I don’t think I heard the question being asked.
In your business plan, it lists a number of priorities relating to review and reform of income assistance programs.
Can you describe which areas of income assistance will be reviewed as a priority?
That’s my question on your business plan.
The Department of Family Services, with the help of a lawyer, reviewed the regulations.
Recommendations are being made as to which assistance programs need to be changed. We cannot violate individual human rights.
We are reviewing those with the help of a lawyer.
Thank you for your good response.
I have been quite concerned about this in regard to income assistance programs. I know that some income support recipients abuse it.
Being a Member of the Legislative Assembly, there are a lot of members of the public that tend to complain to us.
There is no regulation on tobacco and the income support recipients can purchase whatever they want. I have been told that tobacco is definitely not a grocery item. It’s not food and it’s not good for your health either.
My second question, I don’t know what you call them, but they buy those iPods.
I know that groceries are very expensive to purchase. I’m sure that they could better budget. It seems like when they start buying electronics such as iPods, they don’t even want to work anymore.
When you start reviewing the regulations, perhaps you can put it in the regulations where income support recipients can no longer purchase tobacco and electronics such as iPods.
Are you concerned about income support recipients purchasing non-grocery items?
The income assistance programs are being reviewed at this time. Once we became Nunavut, we adopted the NWT policies and they have not been changed with regard to social assistance.
The Department of Justice is assisting us to see where the problem areas are that require improvement. That is what we’re doing at this time.
First of all, I would like to ask a question on page 134 of the Inuktitut version of the business plan. For the Senior Citizen Supplementary Benefit, there is $1,392,000 budgeted for 2015-16.
How many elders will this funding assist?
Hon. Jeannie Ugyuk: Can you give us a minute, please.
There are over 500 elders who access this program.
Are the proposals increasing compared to last year or is the number of elders increasing?
One of my officials is well on her way towards elder statesmanship.
I was only joking and I apologize.  There have been no changes to those figures.
With respect to the supplementary benefits, the basis for these benefits is to supplement their federal government pensions. I have raised this question in the past; I believe it was on March 17 of last year.
Some of the elders who receive the supplementary benefits are all in different situations, but generally they also receive income assistance from Family Services if they are between the ages of 60 and 65.
There are two different programs, so I wonder if you have taken that into consideration.
Here I am talking about a more consistent or equivalent benefit package that is under your program. I would like to have these benefits assist all people equally.
Based on the legislation we have here in Nunavut, once you have reached age 60, you start receiving (interpretation ends) the Senior Citizen Supplementary Benefit. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I don’t think I quite understood that response. The federal government only recognizes senior citizens once they attain age 65 whereby they start receiving old age pensions.
I guess I’m not making much sense.
Nonetheless, I want to ask another question. The $240,000 figure under Program Compliance, is that for one or two employees?
I totally didn’t understand the question that he raised.
Chairman: It’s in your business plan on page 124, fifth paragraph.
There are two positions in this division. I think it was alluded to earlier in another response. One is the financial comptroller for income support and the other position is for legislation compliance.
Additionally, we just heard the minister announce that some clients on income support have their income verified.
Is the fact-finding done in this division? As an example, are the bank statements reviewed by the positions here?
Are the (interpretation ends) bank statements (interpretation) reviewed here?
From what I understand, they are reviewed and looked at. They sign a letter authorizing the income support worker.
They have to sign the letter.
Is that the only way that they get checked? Is that the way I understand it?
I get the latest report from the communities at the end of January. The report outlines the clients who have accessed the Income Assistance Program. People tend to go in January after the holidays as they are facing food insecurity.
The program is renewed every January 1 and all income support clients have to re-sign their annual income disclosure agreement after that date. This includes the requirements the member spoke of.
I would ask that Brandon Grant be allowed to elaborate on the details.
The Department of Family Services does a variety of income verification tools in which we determine whether or not a client is in need.
As the member has alluded to, we do request bank statements, pay stubs, as well as National Child Benefit Supplement printouts so that we can determine sources of income.
As well, we do a pre-interview checklist to determine whether or not other programs might be more suitable for that individual.
Any individual that is eligible for employment insurance must apply for employment insurance before they are eligible for income assistance.
Through the pre-screening as well as the income verification process, we determine what program and what eligibility they might have for our programs.
How that all works is within the electronic environment, our staff at headquarters is able to verify the work of the workers to ensure that any left questions that we feel might be unanswered, including significant gaps in the person’s employment status, flags for us whether or not follow-up work needs to be done by the worker.
Before anybody in the electronic environment is placed on as a client of income assistance, they must go through an approval process through headquarters in real time. We have a number of ways in which we do income verification through our assessment process.
The reasoning for my line of questioning is to determine how bank statements can be reviewed under the (interpretation ends) Program Compliance (interpretation) Division because there are numerous clients in the program.
If I were to cite this example, a total of $37 million is earmarked for this program, which is rather a large amount.
Nonetheless, this begs the question: is only one employee responsible for program compliance or was it two positions that are used to check various program compliance checks, such as (interpretation ends) bank statements (interpretation) that are verified for compliance?
I hope my question is comprehensible.
Chairman: Thank you. I just want to remind all members to listen to the questions that are being asked. We are starting to get a repeat of some same questions.
Hon. Jeannie Ugyuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As per the earlier responses, there are regional workers for program compliance.
There are other monitors at the (interpretation ends) regional level (interpretation) in the Kitikmeot. As they progress up the chain, that is how we learn of the cases.
I apologize. Maybe I didn’t hear the question when it was being asked or I didn’t understand clearly, but I’ll move on to another question.
(interpretation ends) I’m going to quote directly from the… .
I guess going off of Mr. Savikataaq’s questioning with regard to social assistance.
It says, “This program is means tested and provides various levels of financial support to people age 18 or over, and their [dependants], to meet basic needs for food, shelter, utilities and fuel.”
Is tobacco or tobacco products a basic need for program recipients?
Tobacco is not a basic need, but we have no means to see what clients are shopping for.
Mr. Joanasie: Okay, I’ll leave that one then. (interpretation) However, the daycare subsidy level is listed at $502,000 and it hasn’t changed year over year.
I’m wondering how many parents this subsidy assists. How many parents are assisted by this $502,000 subsidy?
The breakdown is as follows: in the Baffin region, there are 28 parents; in the Kivalliq region, there are 13 parents with two more cases under review; and in the Kitikmeot region, there are 13 parents.
Based on their annual income, they receive assistance up to a set level and that is why this figure seems low.
Mr. Joanasie (interpretation): Is the entire budget for daycare subsidy being used every year?
So that the numbers will make sense, I would like Brandon Grant to respond.
We have a budget of 502,000 for the daycare subsidy. In 2013-14, we expended…(inaudible)... .
Mr. Joanasie (interpretation): Sorry, I did not hear the last part of what he said. Can he reiterate, please.
Chairman: My apologies, I cut you off by mistake.
The $502,000 is budgeted for one year. As of this year, we will expend $95,000, as this is based on income.
That is what I can respond with right now.
Do I understand that this $95,000 was used last year or are you planning to spend that much this year?
Hon. Jeannie Ugyuk (interpretation): The expenditures will increase as the fiscal year hasn’t ended yet, but it will be over that amount.
I don’t completely understand.
The month of March is almost the end of the fiscal year and you state that $95,000 has been expended.
To make it clear, I would like Brandon Grant to speak to it. $502,000 is what is listed. $95,000 is set aside in the business plan as of January.
The daycare subsidy does go over that amount.
I’ll move on to the last section, the senior fuel subsidy.
There was a question about it when we were deliberating amendments to it.
I would like to ask the Department of Family Services about the funds that were not all used up last year. There are different things accounted for, such as the earnings made by seniors.
Do you fund clients 100 percent or just part of those earnings? I want to ask: if all applicants had been approved, would those funds have been used up?