EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
I am pleased to present to the Committee the proposed main estimates and business plan for the Department of Justice for the fiscal year 2006-07.
The Department of Justice has been allocated a total operating budget of $56.368 million, which represents an increase of $1.770 million or 3.23 percent over last year’s budget.
The increase allows the department to provide increased support for law enforcement, courts, and legal aid services.
More funding has been provided to the RCMP to cover our share of increased salaries from their recently negotiated collective agreement and costs of operations. Also included is the cost associated with the new National Sex Offender Registry; a tool used in investigating sex-related offences.
Also, the RCMP will be increasing its efforts to promote, recruit, and train more Inuit to become regular members of the police force. There are currently 21 Inuit constables and peace officers across Nunavut.
More funding has been allocated to both Courts and Nunavut Legal Services Board to cover the increasing costs for court circuits. The increasing number of court hearings result in more circuits to communities.
Over the next year, the department is expecting to run 56 circuits to communities. That is about 10 percent more circuits than in the current year.
You will notice that a new branch of Community Justice has been created. It is focused on programs such as crime prevention, diversion to justice committees and mediation services.
These programs were previously part of our Corrections Program. It is our hope that Community Justice will continue to support capacity building in all communities.
I believe that our programs and initiatives are fully supportive of the goals and priorities outlined in Pinasuaqtavut, and are culturally sensitive to Inuit societal values.
I would be pleased to answer questions from members.
Minister Okalik, would you like to bring your officials?
Does the committee agree for the minister to bring in his witnesses?
Chairman: Sergeant-at-Arms, can you please assist the officials.
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): On my right is my Deputy Minister Markus Weber for the Department of Justice and to my left is the Corporate Services Director. Thank you.
Does the chair of the standing committee have opening comments?
Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to be able to give the committee’s opening remarks as we begin consideration of the 2006-07 Main Estimates for the Department of Justice.
Mr. Chairman, it has been almost one year since the Akitsiraq Law School students graduated.
These students are now articling in various organizations and we are extremely proud of them and wish them the best as they complete their training to be our first educated-in-Nunavut lawyers.
Mr. Chairman, members would be supportive of another program such as this being offered again in the future, and urge the minister to continue to look at cost-sharing opportunities with other Inuit organizations.
Mr. Chairman, members are pleased that people are utilizing the new Poverty Law Office in Iqaluit.
Members urge the department to make efforts to ensure that these services are accessible to residents in other communities.
Mr. Chairman, members note from its business plan that the department has been working on establishing a stand-alone probation service for Nunavut.
Members expect to be kept informed on this worthy initiative.
Mr. Chairman, members also note that the department held a Nunavut-wide workshop in 2005-06 for Community Justice Committees.
Members support education and training for the members of these important committees.
Mr. Chairman, members are pleased to see training being offered to coroners, as they fulfill important and stressful responsibilities in our communities.
Mr. Chairman, members were pleased to learn that the new Justice Centre is scheduled to open on April 20, 2006.
Members note that this building will be owned by the government and not leased, as are a number of other buildings that are occupied by the Government of Nunavut.
Mr. Chairman, members note that the department has requested more funding to cover increasing costs for Court Circuits.
Members are hopeful that this increase will be sufficient so that no further supplementary appropriations will be required, as have been necessary in the past.
Mr. Chairman, members continue to be concerned with drugs entering their communities.
The standing committee would welcome the opportunity to meet with RCMP officials to discuss this and other important issues, such as the after-hours automated telephone service in the communities.
Members are strongly of the view that the current system is not serving the immediate needs of emergency cases in the communities.
Members would like to see emergency calls go directly to the local RCMP detachments rather than to Iqaluit.
The Northern Policing Review Report was expected to be completed at the end of 2005.
The committee would want to see this report tabled in the House, so that all Members may see what recommendations were made in the report.
The 2005-06 business plan for the department indicated that it had developed a proposal for Nunavut Arctic College to deliver a program called the Justice Access Program.
This program was to help persons gain the skills to enter the RCMP and justice system.
Members would like to be updated on this program.
Members note that the department made a presentation on the proposed Family Abuse Prevention Act to participants at the recent Inuuqatigiitsiarniq Territorial Symposium on Violence Against Women that was held in Iqaluit.
Members urge the minister to carefully consider recommendations made by all organizations involved.
Members await the introduction of this Bill in the House.
Members are pleased that the Spousal Abuse Prevention Program in Rankin Inlet has been very successful.
Members would wish to see programs such as this one continue, and be offered in more communities.
Members support efforts of this department to develop programs that will help resolve family disputes in a culturally sensitive way.
Members note that the Kugluktuk Men’s Healing Facility is fully operational.
Members look forward to the formal announcement on the location of the planned Kivalliq facility.
The committee supports initiatives that enable inmates to be closer to home and to receive culturally relevant rehabilitation programs.
Members remain concerned that there are not enough beneficiaries being employed at the Baffin Correctional Centre.
Members note that the minister has indicated that the department is making efforts to increase beneficiary employment levels at BCC.
Members wish to be kept up to date on the long-term plans for the replacement of the Baffin Correctional Centre and plans for the development of a female remand facility for Nunavut.
Members are pleased that the Human Rights Tribunal in Coral Harbour is making progress towards being fully staffed.
Members urge the department to make every effort to hire residents of Coral Harbour for this office.
The committee continues to wait for the tabling of the Tribunal’s first annual report.
Members note that the department is working on participating in the National Sex Offender Registry.
Members expect to be kept fully informed on this development.
Mr. Chairman, this concludes my opening remarks. I anticipate that individual members will raise their own comments and concerns on the department’s 2006-07 main estimates.
Very good remarks.
In recognition of that we will take a 30-minute break and be back at 6:30.
>>Committee recessed at 17:54 and resumed at 18:34
Chairman (Mr. Kilabuk)(interpretation): Thank you for coming back. (interpretation ends) Before we proceed, I would like to remind members of the following: according to Rule 77(1), you have 10 minutes to speak and according to Rule 77(2), subject to the discretion of the Chair, a member may speak more than once to a matter under discussion, but not until every member wishing to speak has spoken.
I have no members on my list for general comments. We will now proceed to the page-by-page review.
Estimates start with page E-5.
Justice. Branch Summary. Directorate.
Total Operations and Maintenance. $2,878,000.
(interpretation) Do you agree?
Chairman: Thank you. Justice.
Total Operations and Maintenance. $21,287,000.
Contract Services, it’s increased by $125,000. Could the minister explain what the reason is?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Where are the Contract Services, in what page?
I can’t see the figures he is alluding to.
I will remind everybody we are on E-7.
Justice Branch Summary. Law Enforcement.
And the Contract Services he is referring to is the only budget line under the main estimates for that 2006-07 on E-7.
Mr. Peterson, is that adequate?
Mr. Peterson: Yes, Mr. Chairman, that’s correct.
There’s a large increase there.
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Under Law Enforcement, it had increased for RCMP for operations and also there was an increase due to fuel increases.
All across Canada, we now have consultations with the, we communicate with other jurisdictions for sexually assaulted people.
I thank the minister for that information. Mr. Chairman, on page E-20 of the business plan, under Priorities for 2005-06, there’s a mention of a Northern Policing Review Board expected by the end of 2005.
Can the minister give us an update on the status of that report?
We still don’t have that information. Once we get that information, we will have to review it and it’s going to have an impact on other northern jurisdictions. We will have to consult with them because once we get that I will be able to table it in the House.
Mr. Peterson, more questions?
Justice. Branch Summary.
Total Operations and Maintenance. $21,287,000. (interpretation) I have no more names on my list.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you. (interpretation ends) Justice.
Total Operations and Maintenance. $4,687,000.
I remind you E-8 includes E-9 as an attachment to this page. (interpretation) Are there any questions?
Again, under Contract Services, there’s a sizeable increase; it looks like about $330,000.
Could the minister clarify what the increase is for?
Mr. Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
As I stated in my opening comments, the judges touring the communities is going to increase. That’s why there is an increase on that.
Where the court parties have to travel to the communities, we have to pay for them, so that’s where we pay them, on that line item.
In the past I’ve mentioned this, and I was Chairman of the Kitikmeot Law Centre for a period of time, and we were constantly under pressure, and under-funded to provide legal aid in the communities.
I’m wondering if any of this money will be reallocated to assist the legal aid people in the regions.
Yes, it is in there for legal aid.
Can the minister be a bit more specific? How much money from this amount will go to the legal aid boards in the regions?
They are geared towards legal aid for the whole of Nunavut and for travel for the court party. It’s mainly for that, but it’s all for the communities of Nunavut.
I’m just trying to thin it down a little bit so I can tell my constituents that the Kitikmeot Law Centre will be getting some more funding to help them deliver their programs and services to the people that they work with in our communities, if the minister could be a bit more specific and give me an answer please?
We shall try again.
The legal services board is running this, but we do provide the funding for lawyers so that the lawyers can provide more services to all the communities.
It’s not just for one community, but this is geared to all the communities of Nunavut because the lawyers will be visiting the communities more frequently and it will benefit all the communities.
Can the minister advise me, or tell me if every community in the Kitikmeot Region has a legal aid worker working for the Kitikmeot Law Centre?
I don’t have the information in front of me but I’ll be able to provide it to the member at a later date.
That’s one of the concerns in our region that, at least when I was chairman of the board, we didn’t have enough funding to help people in each community.
We had them in some of the communities, but we didn’t have people in every community who could work with people that needed to talk to legal aid. So it became very difficult for them to access all the services of the legal aid program, and the justice system.
So I’d appreciate it if the minister could give me that information as soon as possible and also clarify if the department has got plans to, if they don’t have legal aid workers in every community in the Kitikmeot Region and maybe in every community in Nunavut, what the plans are to assist the legal services board to find the funding so that we can have legal aid workers in every community; if the minister could comment on that.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Peterson. We shall see. Mr. Minister.
Yes, we can look into this further, but some communities are not frequented by the court parties. Some legal aid workers might not have work to do in some of the communities, while other communities require them.
There are legal aid workers where they are required. We will review this because it’s going to increase the costs for operations.
I’m sure the minister will agree with me that all Nunavummiut are entitled to receive services from the Government of Nunavut, particularly when it comes to legal services.
A lot of people don’t understand the legal system in Canada. They get in trouble; they don’t know who to talk to. If they had a legal aid worker, even if it’s not in the community, but they knew who to call; who to talk to; if you get that kind of information it would probably alleviate a lot of their concerns and make the process work a little bit better.
That’s what I’m concerned about. I’m concerned a lot of people are afraid when they get in trouble with the law and they just don’t know how to deal with it. Then we have more problems.
I’m sure the minister agrees with me that everybody who is seeking a lawyer they get help from a lawyer and should be able to easily access those services. I wonder if the minister could comment on that.
Individuals that go before the courts have the right to have a legal aid worker, or to have a lawyer. That’s why we can’t really move this funding because the individuals that appear before the court require the services of legal aid or a lawyer, but this line item is to be used for that.
We don’t have any room to manoeuvre, but we will continue to work on it. We welcome all suggestions for improvements. They call the Legal Services Board for assistance.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Okalik.
In the Keewatin region it states here and it’s evident that we have legal services. But I was told more than once, that in northern Manitoba, there’s a community service there, and also in Winnipeg. We usually hear the younger people today who thought that the office was in the Keewatin.
They wanted to make sure that the name of this law centre is an Indian name. I believe that their title should be changed.
The question that I have is two years ago we had heard about the individuals that appear before the courts, the parents don’t even know if their child had been sentenced to jail, or the spouse is arrested and their children are taken to a safe home. They just leave their husband and he was not allowed to go home. They don’t really have family in that community, but there are a lot of buildings in the communities due to the housing shortage.
I was wondering if your department has considered, because we had heard this for many years that our government was going to do something about it. Can you update me on this?
It already existed before we became a government but in the springtime I will try and come up with something to stop the violence. We have been working closely with legal aid about how else we can deal with this using Inuit societal values and it’s clear that we will be working together on this.
Mr. Alagalak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It’s not only that, when the children are taken away from their parents and the husband is kicked out, he is not given any place to live and no means of providing for food.
We just use the southern standard when it’s a lot colder up here, when we do that; we just seem to just put them on the street.
As you mentioned earlier that we should use our elders who know Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit, sometimes the people who work in that department are not elders and they really have no idea on the Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit.
As the Premier knows the population is growing and we have a Justice Committee and they work really hard and the RCMP keeps referring clients to them.
The Justice Committee doesn’t get enough funding and they go through the hamlet. They felt that because they get a lot of referrals from the RCMP to see if they can get more funding and have an office administrator or something so they will function easier.
I wonder if this has been considered at all; if there’s going to be any changes to that.
This is not the first time that we heard this. We have been caught in the middle and we will be because if it’s under the criminal code when they have to go to court and the federal government, we can’t just make amendments or changes, especially with the federal legislation.
So what we try to do is to try and expedite the system so that we can incorporate Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit or the Inuit culture into the judicial system so we can work closely together. If we can’t do anything with the criminal code, we can work around it and that’s what we will do.
I think it’s clear in Arviat the population is growing and when the court circuit comes into town, it seems like the accused are lining up.
Well, before they go to court, they have the right to talk to a lawyer or with legal aid.
So what we do now if somebody commits a crime, they go to the RCMP, and then the RCMP goes to Social Services, and if it can’t be handled there, then it’s dealt with. They have to go through so many different routes and that creates a lot of inconvenience for the Inuit and confusion.
Legal aid should have an office in bigger communities so the people can access them and talk to them. It would be a lot easier.
I wonder if any consideration has been given to opening a legal aid office in Arviat.
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We can work closely with the Department of Culture, Language, Elders and Youth and try and work together instead of opening new offices, because if we incorporate Inuit societal values, we can make improvements.
Total Operations and Maintenance. $2,379,000.
I just have a quick question here. Has the Public Trustee made any recommendations for further amendments to the Wills Act?
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Peterson. Mr. Minister.
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Yes, we’re still waiting at this time because it’s still being reviewed by the Public Trustees. Once we’ve compiled the necessary changes we will complete it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Could the minister provide an overview of what Nunavummiut should do in the event that they don’t have a will? Who should they talk to?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): At this time we are planning to make a kit, but we haven’t completed that yet.
Are there any other questions under E-10 or E-11?
Branch Summary. Lawyer Support Services.
Total Operations and Maintenance. $7,252,000.
I have a question on sentencing. When judges’ sentence individuals for their various crimes, I know there are five, or six, or seven different types they sentence an individual for. I was reading that in a brochure this morning.
One that stuck out in my mind was conditional sentencing.
I recall an incident somewhere where a judge would give a conditional sentence but then tell the person they had to move to another community. Of course they would go to another community, and there are no facilities there to take them in.
They don’t have any relatives there. They’re basically homeless.
I’m wondering how, in the minister’s opinion, how judgments, how that is a good thing for a) the individual being sentenced, and b) for the community who probably don’t want the individual there and they can’t support him for the time that he is sentenced.
The courts have their own sentencing and they put in conditional sentences, because they only do judgments after hearing cases from the prosecutor and the defence lawyer.
I understand what the minister’s saying, you know the judges sentence people, but do they have a full understanding of the type of sentence they’re handing out, because really they’re essentially giving a conditional sentence and then sending an individual to another community where the support services may not be in place, or maybe over-stressed to take in another individual or two.
And then the individual may be ostracized in that community and become a homeless person that the Minister responsible for Homelessness and I talked about last week in the Legislative Assembly.
If the minister could comment if the judges fully understand and comprehend the type of sentence, their conditional sentences, that they’re giving to individuals when they send them to another community? What support services are there?
Chairman: Good question.
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The judges make their own judgment but when they make a judgment they refer to the defence lawyers and prosecutors. After hearing their sides, then the judge makes their ruling.
As a government we can’t really do anything on their judgment part.
Perhaps what should happen is the judge should require the prosecuting and defence lawyer to go into the community and talk to mayor and council, the wellness centre people, and other individuals in town such as elders, to see if it’s possible before a conditional sentence is issued that the community is capable of taking that individual and helping them.
There’s nothing worse than giving someone a sentence and hoping that it’s going to help them, but then send them into a circumstance where it’s not going to help them; it just maybe gets worse.
The judges operate by themselves and use the criminal code. We can’t adjust them as a government; they are independent of all governments. They operate the lawyers and the prosecutors.
I think we’re going around in circles on this issue. Hopefully, the judges and their officials are listening in that they should spend some more time consulting with communities.
This is to ensure that by issuing a conditional sentence and sending a person to another community that that community can take that individual or individuals in and help them; to give them the counselling that they need; whether it’s for two weeks, or three months, and provide the shelter that they require, if there’s a shelter in the community.
In most cases, there aren’t, but then they are going to have to find relatives in town, or somebody that’ll take them in, otherwise they’re just going to become a burden to that community.
We already know that, from our discussions over the last weeks, overcrowded housing conditions exist in Nunavut, crisis conditions. By sending an individual into these kinds of conditions, I’m having a difficult time understanding how they could help them, or help the community, or even help the community that they have to return to when their sentence is up?
I don’t believe I heard a question, but I will offer Mr. Premier just to speak on the issue if he wishes.
Mr. Premier.  Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
This was just a comment; I didn’t hear a question there.
Chairman (interpretation): I don’t have any more names on my list. (interpretation ends) Justice. Branch Summary.
Total Operations and Maintenance. $7,252,000. Do you agree?
Total Operations and Maintenance. $15,520,000.
Can the minister tell us what the average cost is to incarcerate a person in the Baffin Correctional Centre on an annual basis?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): We don’t have a breakdown on it yearly, but we have a daily rate of $185 to house them in the Baffin Correctional Centre.
Could the minister also provide the same information for the Yellowknife Correctional Centre?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): $175.