EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Mr. Iqaqrialu I think he responded to your question adequately.
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): Mr. Chairperson if there are other people who would like to speak I could stay quiet for a while so that I can give more opportunity to others.
I know how I felt when I was asking lots of questions.
That's okay David that's what we're here for.
Mr. Chairman I would like to just read over first a goal in the Main Estimates of the department, which is, " to establish the department through the successful integration of Community Government, Housing & Transportation functions."
In his opening remarks, the Minister talked about this amalgamation, which would allow them an opportunity to look at new ways to deliver programs and services more effectively.
I am wondering Mr. Chairman if the Minister could provide us with some insight as to how this is being accomplished to date.
Hon. Jack Anawak: I would just like to mention a couple of things first.
In order to better deliver the programs to communities, as I mentioned earlier in response to Mr. Iqaqrialu and others, we would like to come up with a task force of some kind, however again the discussion at this time is between myself and the Minister of Finance trying to determine the Terms of Reference for that task force.
We will be working on it as soon as possible in order to better have an idea of what kind of programs we need to deliver, what better ways there are out there.
But in terms of the better delivery of services within the department, I wonder if I might ask the Deputy Minister to briefly outline the amalgamation of the department.
Chairperson: Mr. Ferris.
Mr. Ferris (Deputy Minister, Community Government, Housing & Transportation): Thank you Mr. Chairperson.
The amalgamation is proceeding, we are still in the process of rolling together at the regional level the staff that we inherited from the Government of the Northwest Territories.
It's obviously a little bit easier to structure your headquarters when you are putting new positions in place.
What we are attempting to do in the amalgamation and we'll be attempting to do further in consultation with the communities and our partners, is draw on the strengths of the three departments that we are amalgamating into one.
There's very good things that Municipal & Community Affairs was doing, there are very good things that the Housing Corporation was doing and the same with Transportation.
What we are trying to do is build teams that can go into the communities and deal with the issues that a community Council faces. So, instead of having to wait for a person to come in, we are taking what were called community development officers in the Housing Corporation along with municipal officers out of what was known as MACA and we are going to cross train those individuals and draw on the strengths that they already have as community development officers.
For example, Housing was looking at financial records of the local housing authority, there is no reason why that same person can't provide assistance to the Hamlet Council on the Hamlet side of the books.
So we are looking at, in the amalgamation to draw on those strengths, to build a department that we can take and come up with some efficiencies in the delivery.
In other words instead of building a large bureaucracy where we have specialists that only deal with housing, only deal with transportation, only deal with local government issues, we are trying to pull together a team that will be able to deal with all of those issues.
Now, there is obviously a few special items and one of them is housing, where we are building the housing under the umbrella of the Nunavut Housing Corporation which is out of the Act that we inherited, that came over to Nunavut.
So there will be one branch of our headquarters that will have some specialized people in it and they will be concentrating on the housing issues in the broader scale because they are at headquarters.
At the regional level the headquarters, although some of the staff would have reporting links to the Housing Corporation, they will be delivering a united service.
But there will be, the same in transportation, we have at least three or four positions that we have to maintain, to ensure that we keep certification on airports.
So they are special, but where we can amalgamate and reduce the numbers and yet deliver more programs efficiently, that's what we are looking at.
We will be involving, as we did through the Nunavut consultation conferences, start more consultation with the communities and with our partners on those levels of service.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Ferris.
Mr. Chairman, in light of the Deputy Ministers' responses drawing on the strengths of the different departments and amalgamating like services, I am just wondering if the current structure that they have set up and are operating under reflects that.
I am just looking at 7.1 in the Mains and it shows three distinct, separate divisions of Community Government, Housing & Transportation.
I am wondering if the organizational structure and the chart is going to be changing in light of looking at amalgamating these services in the future.
Chairperson (interpretation): Either one of you can respond.
Hon. Jack Anawak: Yes, the department does have those three sections, Community Government, Housing & Transportation and as such has three Assistant Deputy Ministers, but as the Deputy Minister pointed out earlier there is going to be a lot more interaction amongst the sections and cross training and what not.
I think that is how we can utilize a lot more of our personnel by ensuring that when our staff, say our regional headquarters staff, go into communities, they are going in to do more than just one thing at a time, whether it is housing or helping with the Hamlet finances or other things.
But, for the sake of having the ability to differentiate between Community Government, Housing & Transportation there has to be those three, but again, a lot more of working together between what was previously three departments, a lot more working together between the three, because they are under the same department now.
Mr. Ferris: Thank you Mr. Chairperson.
Just to add one further comment, when we appeared before the Standing Committee we were given some advice about a report that did exist on the old Housing Corporation.
We have secured a copy of that report and are looking at it.
As the Minister said then, and again now, there could be some change in the organizational structure.
We are working with the original structure that grew out of Footprints II and as we put the team together we may, for example, consumer affairs, may fit somewhere better other than the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
So there may be some refining of the model, I wouldn't want to say that it is etched in concrete but we had to have a starting point that came out of the Footprints documents and what we were given as a department to start the process.
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you Mr. Chairperson, I take it the answer is yes there will be some changes to the structure and in light of that I guess I am wondering if the Standing Committee or the Regular Members will have any input, or will they see what these changes are prior to them being made.
Hon. Jack Anawak (interpretation): Yes, as I have stated earlier on, that housing is one of the critical departments and one of the most challenging departments and community government is one of the important issues for the communities.
If we are going to be changing the contents in order to benefit the communities we will require the assistance and support of the regular members.
If we plan to make changes we will notify you ahead of time and we will be asking you well in advance as to your feelings on any issue if we want to make changes.
If we are going to develop the Nunavut Government we are going to be requiring your assistance and we will ask you for your support.
Not just on documents, if we are going to be making changes, or making amendments, if we want to make changes to what was inherited from the GNWT, yes we will require your assistance.
I am just wondering then, if the Minister and his staff have any idea of a time frame of when they are going to be changing the structure prior to, I know they are not fully staffed right now, are they going to be looking at streamlining or amalgamating, or changing some of these services before they have a structure in place where at that time, it is always harder to change something after it has been set up.
I am just wondering whether they have any plans or suggested models of delivery that they have been working on prior to this date or have they just been going along with the Footprints II model as they have been ordered to?
Chairperson: Minister Anawak.
Hon. Jack Anawak: Again, we will be starting the process.
If there are any changes to be made, and we will be consulting with the regular members, we would want to have some kind of a report when we were asked, when the motion was made to have a mid-year review in October, probably by that time, after consulting with some people we will be able to report something by then.
I would like my name to be pronounced right, it is not Irqittuq, it is Irqittuq, Mr. Chairman Thank you.
I would like to be represented and addressed properly.
In the Ministers' department under 5.3, when you open the page to 5.6, the capital from 99/2000 what is in the capital?
I think you have stated that you would like to work with the Hamlet Councils so that you can set up the capital plans.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Irqittuq, we are not dealing with the department of Justice, we are dealing with Community Government, Housing & Transportation.
Mr. Irqittuq (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, I never mentioned the Justice Department I was talking about the Main Estimates for Capital Plan.
I am talking about the Capital Plan, I am not in the Justice Department.
Chairperson (interpretation): When you said 5.3 I open the page and it says Department of Justice.
Mr. Irqittuq (interpretation): I didn't say 5.7 I said 7.3.
Hon. Jack Anawak (interpretation): Well I heard 5.3 too…
Like I said, we have always stated that the Nunavut Government will be close to the people and when we are talking about capital issues, yes it is true, it is very true, but we also have to realize that due to the lack of money we will not be able to meet all the needs of the people.
I would like closer understanding between the people and the organizations be it the Hamlets or the Housing Associations and we also realize that health and safety are always going to be our priority if we are looking at capital projects. Of course, we have to keep within the limitations of the budget.
We also want to come to an agreement with the communities when we are talking about capital projects in their communities.
I apologize, I did say 5.3 when I was trying to talk about 7.3.
In 7.3 we have contributions and on this page are these contributions set for a specific purpose?
Chairperson (interpretation): That's in 7.15 and 7.16 where we have the detail of grants and contributions. Mr. Anawak looking at 7.3 and looking at the total expenditures we have the numbers here and the grants and contributions are already slated for specific purposes.
Mr. Irqittuq (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Chairman.
I didn't realize that the details were here.
I misunderstood the Inuktitut term that was used to explain the operations, maintenance, capital and so on.
I asked the Minister of Education and the response I got was if a contract was signed already, or if it was a health and safety issue they would go ahead with that capital project.
You probably won't be able to answer my question but if a plan for a house or if a plan was already drawn on a house or a facility, that would mean that the project is already under way.
Does that mean that it has to go ahead this year.
Hon. Jack Anawak (interpretation): I think I understand your question.
If it is already using money then, of course, we have to pay for the blueprints and the plans and so on, specifications.
I think you are talking about the grants & contributions here which is 59 million here.
We have to specify what these grants & contributions are going to be used for before they are given to the community.
I understand exactly what you are saying, so I will be able to give more money to Mr. Arvaluk.
My other comment is the Hamlets and the Housing Authorities.
In my constituency you stated that you would like to support the communities that would like to build private homes.
Of course, we all want to help those communities, but the Hamlets and the Housing Authorities never seem to be able to get these projects going.
I am not going to say a specific name but this person owns a private business in Igloolik maintaining furnaces.
There are about 1200 people in Igloolik and this person is the only oil burner mechanic in the whole town.
He has a journeyman certificate and everything but he is not able to make money because the organizations be it the RCMP or other organizations have their own oil burner mechanics and the Housing Association has their own maintenance people.
We do want to see private businesses flourish in the communities and if there is a private oil burner mechanic in the community, I hope that by next year we use these private businesses, private tradespeople.
They are going to Social Services because they are not being utilized because they can't make any money.
They have journeyman certificates, tickets and everything but they can't get anywhere.
I like where you are coming from and if there is a private business person or journeyman ticketed in the community, then use these people.
We keep saying that there's Article 24 that we have to use as a Nunavut Government.
We have to use Article 24 because we were created because of the Agreement.
Hon. Jack Anawak (interpretation): I believe you are talking about Housing Associations who have their own staff, their own oil burner mechanics on staff.
If the RCMP need an oil burner mechanic they use the one that is on the staff of the Housing Association.
We can look into this further, it is not only oil burner mechanics it is also carpenters who could be contracted by the RCMP, the Co-ops and so on.
I was just using this as an example, for example if there is no contractor in the community.
For example Whale Cove, the Housing Association is very capable of building houses, but if there is no Inuk owned construction company, if they were going to build one house in Whale Cove, I would think we could give the money to the Housing Association so the money could stay in the community.
The only reason I bring this up is because there was a disagreement where the Hamlet wanted to build a house but NTI didn't like it because Hamlets are not recognized with Inuk status, so I was just thinking about those problems.
Mr. Irqittuq (interpretation): Thank you for that explanation Mr. Minister.
For those business people who are just starting out, if they have registration and a business license, they are business people no matter what trade or business they are in.
Of course, there is always a but, there are very capable people out there in the communities, but if the contract is worth 100 thousand, 200 thousand, and since they don't have ready cash, they have to put down 10% of the contract in order to get it, or they need a big security or they need to get a license from the Worker's Compensation Board.
With all these barriers a person who is very capable of starting a business, but does not have the cash flow is incapable of bidding on these contracts.
They might go to Economic Development because they don't have the requirements, they cannot get started.
Even with Nunavut Government and the Agreement and so on, we are still setting up those barriers for people who want to start their own businesses.
The people are still going to be coming up against those same barriers even with the Nunavut Government, we are going to be asking for registrations or licenses from the Worker's Compensation Board, there's still going to be a lot of requirements in order to start a business or bid on a contract and so on.
So, we have to look at ways and means of how it could be easier for the people of Nunavut, if we are talking about keeping the money in Nunavut.
Hon. Jack Anawak (interpretation): Yes, I understand exactly where you are coming from.
I think it was last year in the fall, where we ran into some problems.
I believe it was a water reservoir in Coral Harbour that was going to be built.
The community was very capable, they had all the heavy equipment, they had the personnel, they had the lowest bid I believe, but since they couldn't get a bid bond the contract was awarded to a company in Yellowknife.
So we have to look into this further and, yes, they did get the work but they should have been the one to have been awarded that contract so more money would have stayed in the community.
I am well aware of these problems and I do see the need to review it so the communities can prosper.
I know exactly where you are coming from.
Since our clock is ticking and we do have names on the list, there is Mr. McLean, Mr. Akesuk and Mr. Tootoo.
Mr. McLean: Thank you Mr. Chairman.
These are just general comments from myself and I don't really require an answer.
I know we inherited this budget from the OIC's office, and sitting on the Hamlet Council last year, we were asked by the various departments in the old government to give our input on the plan, so the Hamlet Council worked diligently giving their capital plan ideas to the last government hoping that some of it would be brought over into this government.
Going through Community Government I think we got 1% of the allocation in the Keewatin.
Housing we got 0% allocation in the Keewatin, this is Baker Lake I'm talking about. In transportation, 0% of the allocation for the Keewatin.
Like I say, I know it is not the honourable…(inaudible comment)…but being on the Hamlet Council in Baker Lake for the last number of years, there should be more movement.
I see from the Footprints ll document, that there are no ADM's in the Footprints ll document and I see three of them here.
Two based in Rankin Inlet, no, one based in Rankin Inlet and one based in Arviat, and I think I have never seen, the only time I have ever seen the ADM of Transportation come in to meet with the Hamlet Council was when there was a big meeting going on in Baker Lake that I don’t want to get into about, and then they show up.
I am hoping that the Minister has a detailed work plan in place for his Assistant Deputy Ministers to travel around and take some workload off of the very capable Deputy Minister.
I think we will agree that we should see the ADM's more in our communities all over Nunavut.
But like I say, these are just general comments.
The Housing part of this, and I was phoned by a few people, and Public Works and Services are doing all of the technical work.
To me that, I don’t think that is a very good idea.
I know that it has been set up that way, and I am sure Public Works and Housing had really no say in it before you got it, but I think it is something that should be looked at.
You have Public Works doing the technical work, and Housing Corporation delivering the program and the work.
I can see conflicts there.
If the technical people were with the Housing Corporation, I think, in my opinion, dealing with the Housing Corporation as a Hamlet Councillor, and as a businessman, that the Housing Corporation should have their own technical people.
It worked in the past.
I don’t want to go back to the old Government thing.
Another item. A transportation strategy.
Are we even looking at developing a transportation strategy in regards to Nunavut?
I know we had a transportation strategy that reflected the old west and they were to build highways, build highways build highways.
I didn’t see us really over here developing a core transportation strategy that reflected all the communities from the middle to the larger ones.
NavCanada fees.
I beat that one up pretty bad when I could with the business community.
NavCanada is directly affecting all of us in Nunavut and I think there should be an escape clause for communities in Nunavut because most people down south don’t have to deal with the price of bread, milk, eggs, and stuff like that.
We do, and all of a sudden, we get hit with, we are penalized because of our isolation with NavCanada fees.
We know that it is a not for profit organization.
So when their costs increase, costs increase to the consumers.
As a Government, and like I say, we did look at NavCanada, we did appeal to them but I don’t think those people down there realize that we don’t have a road system or rail system in place to deal with what we have to deal with here.
The food mail subsidy was good. It really helped by bring down the price of apples, and oranges and bread and eggs and stuff like that.
I think NavCanada adds three to five to seven percent on to the cost of commercial items.
I don’t care, you know, about the price of a chocolate bar or a bag of chips or a bottle of pop but when it comes to perishable items, that, up here, we do not get a break on because of the high freight rates and the demographics we live in. I think NavCanada should be aware of the situation of what it costs to buy an apple or an orange or a litre of milk or a loaf of bread.
It is just my general comments.
Before a response from the Minister, we made a motion that we have to adjourn at six o’clock.
It is now getting on to six o’clock.
I would like to ask the Committee what their wishes.
Do you want to go ahead?
I have quite a lot of questions and comments to make.
I would like to adjourn now.
Chairperson (interpretation): That has to go by motion if you want to adjourn. If it is the Committees wish to adjourn.
Mr. Iqaqrialu I believe you want to adjourn for the day.
Did you want to move a motion?
I move, before we get into that, I would like to move that we adjourn for the day.
Chairperson (interpretation): All in favour?
We will adjourn at six.
There is a motion on the floor we will adjourn.
Before we go ahead, I would like to thank the Community Government, Housing, and Transportation Department for being at the witness table and for being able to answer our questions.
I would like to thank you. Thank you.
Speaker: Please take your seats.
Back to our Orders of the Day.
Item 21 Report of the Committee of the Whole.
Mr. Puqiqnak (interpretation): Mr. Speaker, Your Committee has been considering Bill 1- Appropriation Act, also Standing Committee Report 1-1(2), 2-1(2), 3-1(2), and your Committee wish that the report be concurred with.
Seconder?
Mr. Akesuk seconds the report.
Those in favour of the motion please signify.
The motion is carried. Item 22.
Hon. Kelvin Ng. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to return to item 17: Motions and to deal with my motion today.
Speaker (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Ng. There is unanimous consent being sought to return to Item 17 motions.
Motion 1 - 1 (2): Sitting Hours
Hon. Kelvin Ng. Thank you Mr. Speaker. Honourable Members.
I move and Seconded by the Honourable Member for Tunnuniq that the Speaker be authorized to set such sitting hours as the Speaker deems fit to assist with the business of the House.
Speaker (interpretation): All those in favour?
Item 18. First Reading of Bills
Thank you, back to the Orders of the Day.
Item 23. Mr. Quirke.
Mr. Quirke. Thank you Mr. Speaker.
Immediately following the adjournment of the House, Meeting of the Management Services Board in the upstairs classroom.
Tomorrow morning, meeting of regular caucus at 8:30 a.m. at the Cadet Hall
Orders of the Day, Wednesday May 26, 1999 10:30 am.
Ministers Statements
Members Statements
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and other Matters
Bill One - Appropriation Act 1999/2000
Bill Two - Boards of Management Dissolution Act
Bill Three - Divisional Education Boards Dissolution Act
Standing Committee Reports 1-1(2), 2-1(2), 3-1(2), 4-1(2)
I would like to ask the Members to be kind enough to stay for a few minutes to allow for a brief presentation to be made to the Premier of our Coloured Booklet commemorating the ceremonies and celebrations that took place here in Iqaluit on April 1.