EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
So by keeping them in Nunavut, we could manage the costs and predict them.
So those are some of the benefits that we see and it also supports our economy. Instead of shipping them out and paying for them, we can also support more employment opportunities for our citizens. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the minister for that response and I fully support that concept.
I know the young offenders facility here provides secure placement for young offenders that either receive court time or are awaiting trial. What kinds of programs are offered there to help those young people to try and change their lives around? I think the minister will probably agree with me that they have a better opportunity to try and affect change at an earlier stage like that than you would if they were in the adult system.
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) This facility is for secure custody people only; we prefer sending these young people to outpost camps.
Where there is a secure environment required by the courts, then they are sent to the facility here in Iqaluit. Even though it’s required for secure inmates, it allows us to provide some culturally relevant programs like going on the land and those things that strengthen their cultural knowledge and give them some foundation of our culture.
So that’s the advantage that we do have is that we can offer that in the facility here. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Can the minister indicate if they’re looking at indicators or records to keep track of whether it’s been a successful program being offered out of there or not? Do they have any statistical information on that? It sounds like it’s a pretty good thing.
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I think the numbers that we do have there now... there are like five inmates in the facility.
So I think there’s some success rate but it’s hard to quantify when the numbers are fairly low.
The biggest success we have seen are outpost camps for the young people in particular. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
It seems like it’s a very successful program being offered, so I would just like to ask the minister again: are they looking at making any changes to the facility on how they handle young offenders?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) We’re always looking for ways to improve our services. We try and find the best methods possible to deliver our services to young, adult and female inmates. I can’t say if there will be changes at this point but some things are more successful than others, so we’re open to new ways in improving our services. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Tootoo: Someone has too much money on their hands to buy a machine that makes that much noise.
Mr. Chairman, I guess when he’s saying improving services and as the Minister of Justice indicated earlier, the ideal thing is to keep offenders in Nunavut and closer to home.
He talked about: they are open to making changes, any change. Can he confirm to us that they’re definitely not looking at closing down the young offenders facility and shipping young offenders out of the territory that require a secure environment?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) We haven’t made a decision on anything yet; we’re just trying to find ways where we can get a happy medium. We’re very short on beds and we have five inmates in the facility, so we’re trying to find ways to maximize the resources that we do have with the limited infrastructure that we do have. We’re exploring but we haven’t made any final decisions, so I remain open. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
It sounds like that is an option that they were looking at and I would certainly encourage the minister for all the reasons that he stated why they want to keep or repatriate inmates back to Nunavut, especially young people.
I think sending them out of the jurisdiction, whether to the NWT or a southern jurisdiction, is just a recipe for disaster.
At least here, there’s culturally relevant programming available; they can go out on the land. I think it would be a huge mistake to look at shutting down that facility and shipping those poor young kids into some other jurisdiction where they would be totally lost.
So do you affirm that that’s something that they would not do?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I’m not going to send young people out to be lost, so I can assure the member that that’s not an option I would entertain very lightly.
We’re trying to find the best ways to manage the resources that we do have.
We do have other facilities throughout the territory but I’m not going to shut down the facilities that we do have.
The inmates may change, but if that. I haven’t made any final decision; I’m trying to collect the best way of managing this problem that we do have today. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The minister said that he wouldn’t entertain that lightly and he also said the inmates may change but it sounds like they are looking at different plans there. What options would they be looking at if they were going to take the young offenders out of that facility? Where would they send the young offenders that would require secure custody?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) They will be in Nunavut. So I can assure the member that we will make sure that these young people get culturally relevant programming within Nunavut. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
That’s something that’s not even mentioned in their business plan.
So I’m just wondering where that idea came from and when they were planning on letting Members of the Assembly know that that’s something that they were looking at.
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) As I said, we’re always trying to find ways to manage with what we have.
Now, those are preliminary, I understand; I guess the union has been involved in those discussions.
We’re trying to manage what we have with the resources that we do have.
So those are preliminary discussions that have taken place.
No decision has been made and will not be made until we’ve had good discussions and good plans in place to manage the problem that we’re facing today where we have 45 inmates in Yellowknife and 10 inmates in Ottawa, and a facility that’s overcrowded at best here in Iqaluit. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Can the minister indicate if they have any idea of when they plan on making that decision?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I don’t plan to make any decision any earlier; I would like to have a good discussion and a good plan in place, so not in the foreseeable future. It will probably be well after spring if anything. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Well after spring is the foreseeable future; it’s almost springtime right now.
I’m just wondering then if the minister is stating that a decision that he wants to make on his watch as Justice Minister or would he commit to having that decision with all the information left for whoever’s Justice Minister in the Third Assembly?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) The problem is with us today, so we have to try and find a way to manage it. Probably within the next few months, we will hopefully try and tackle those problems. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I think the idea of building the correctional facility in Rankin Inlet was that it would address a lot of that problem of repatriating inmates that are currently out of the territory.
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) The Rankin Inlet facility is scheduled to be completed in 2011; that is three years away.
The problem we have today is today, so we’re trying to manage with what we have today. So that’s the problem we face and we’re trying to manage it.
It’s a problem that this government will have to try and tackle and we will work with the people affected and try and come up with the best decision. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I’m just wondering if the minister would consider potentially getting rid of programs that are being run out of that facility right now that seems to be successful and working.
To address an issue in two or three years when the new facility opens up won’t be so much of an issue.
Would you at least commit to looking at whether that type of a decision is short-sighted because once that program and that facility are gone for that purpose, it’s gone.
The other problem is going to hopefully in all likelihood resolve itself once the new facility in Rankin Inlet is built.
In the meantime, you’re going to lose that facility and the good programming that’s being run out of it right away. It’s pretty tough to change things after it’s been changed once already.
Minister Okalik
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I want to assure union members that they will not lose their jobs; we will to continue relying on their good work.
So the building will not go away along with the staff that are there.
We’re trying to find the best way of taking advantage of available space.
The current facility can hold up to 15; there are five in it.
We’re trying to find a way to have a medium where we can utilize the resources more than we do have with the problem we’re facing today.
We’re not going to take away any facilities anywhere.
I just want to clear up the assumption that the minister just made in saying that he’s assuring the union members. He seems to be implying that someone from the union has been feeding me information, so I just want to assure him that that’s not the case. That always seems to be a conclusion.
I know that the management and that of the union are good friends of the minister’s. I just want to assure him, because he seemed to imply that, it did not come from any union member.
I’m not saying it for jobs or anything like that; I’m just saying that look at it, it’s a good program that’s working.
If you know that something’s fixed, why break it?
That’s what that’s doing is taking something that’s working and getting rid of it, out of there, and maybe shipping it off to somewhere else, then who knows what you’re going to end up with. It’s like that old saying, ‘Why kick a sleeping dog? If he’s sleeping, he’s not going to bite you.’
If something seems to be working, don’t try and fix it. It’s just a comment for the minister to consider.
I have a question to the minister with respect to a comment he made earlier about people who are incarcerated and placed in institutions outside of Nunavut.
There was one time where I had a discussion with the family members of a young person who was incarcerated in an institution outside of Nunavut. As an MLA, I couldn’t find out where he was placed.
Who can the Nunavummiut talk to if they want to find out exactly where an individual is placed, especially for the people who are incarcerated for major crimes and placed in southern institutions?
If they’re adults, the family members are usually informed of where they’re placed.
You can go through the Baffin Correctional Centre to find out where the inmates from Nunavut are placed.
So if they’re incarcerated for second degree murder or something more severe and if they’re placed in federal institutions, you can also go through the Baffin Correctional Centre to get the information.
The family members believe that this individual was placed in a federal institution and this is the first time I’m finding out that you can go through the Baffin Correctional Centre to get the information.
Some elders have been asking where to get more information. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
The individuals who are incarcerated for less than two years are at BCC and if they’re incarcerated for over two years, then they’re sent to the federal penitentiaries.
You can go through the parole officers to find out exactly where they were sent.
I have a very brief question under Corrections with respect to a concern that I have when individuals have served their time but are not sent to their home communities.
What rules are followed when individuals cannot be sent back to their home communities?
It’s our policy that we send the individuals to their home communities if they had been on remand.
Sometimes these individuals may find a job and decide to stay here.
We can’t force them to go home, so if they wanted to stay in town and if they want to find a job, then that’s up to them.
Usually, our policy is to send them to their home communities when they’re released.
What about the communities who don’t want that individual to return? Would the Department of Justice follow the wishes of the community if they don’t want a certain individual back in their community? What could the community do?
We can’t prevent them from returning to their community, but what we can do is enforce any conditions placed by the courts.
Thank you, Mr. Kattuk. (interpretation ends) We’re on page E-8.
Total Operations and Maintenance, to be Voted. $18,607,000. (interpretation) Do you agree?
I have a question and it could have been asked anywhere. Anyway, under this section I have a question in regard to crime prevention.
I would first of all like to ask the minister if there are any numbers or any reports on the crime rate, whether there’s a decrease or an increase in the numbers from the previous year. Is there any information on that?
We have the information in the business plan, the most recent available, if you go to E-12 for 2005-06, for assault, there was a nine percent decline and there was a 27 percent decline in property damages, so in total, there was a decrease of 11 percent in Nunavut.
Those are the most recent numbers we have. We still don’t have the numbers for this year because we have to wait until the end of the year to see those numbers.
We will have to monitor those numbers.
As I was saying earlier, we’re starting to see more crime being committed in relation to the drug trade and it seems like there are more of those kinds of issues coming up.
With the mining development, there’s going to be an increase in the trafficking of drugs. Has the minister thought about this issue?
I know the police are dealing with this area of crime and it is often good news when they have made a bust, but I really don’t want to use that term.
The thing is drugs cause problems for youth and a huge amount of money is spent.
Has the minister considered getting the public more involved and not only be dealt with by the RCMP?
In the United States, there used to be a massive anti-drug campaign. Up here, we may be small players, we don’t have highways and you can only transport drugs by air or ship.
I would like to hear from the minister about crime prevention and how we can better use it. We are under Community Justice but I want to touch up on crime prevention as we have a lot of communities here.
I would like to thank the RCMP for providing awareness programs in the communities, going to the schools and educating the young people, and so on.
Again, the federal government has also set up a unit that deals solely with drugs in Nunavut. We also have a police dog that replaced the one which passed away.
Yes, we are aware that drugs may become more widespread, so we would like to approve legislation. As we are all aware, there’s a mine developing in Baker Lake and usually, when there is development, there’s also an increase in the drug trade and other social ills, so we want to have more officers there.
Again, I would like to see more educational pamphlets being given out to the communities. If it’s not under the RCMP, then we should take the responsibility of doing crime prevention.
There should be pamphlets available for patients returning home from hospitalization because there might be packages sent up north through an elder who was on medical travel and if that elder was caught, I’m certain that they would get charged.
For those reasons, I urge our elders not to take any packages if they don’t know what the contents are.
Would it be possible for your department to make sure that there’s information made available so that the elders, who are compassionate towards youth, don’t take packages home that contain drugs?
I would like to know what the minister thinks about that.
Yes, this has been brought up before. It’s regrettable that some people have been charged. I will keep my colleague informed where the elders go and we can certainly inform them possibly in the boarding homes with written materials.
Yes, I would fully support the minister because we don’t inform our constituents enough of those things. We, as the government, don’t enforce it enough, so then crime is committed.
For example, I can remember when we were coming from Labrador by boat, there was a young person who asked us to bring a package and I almost said yes.
It was apparently drugs and I almost agreed to it.
I strongly support you in that way so we can deter the importation of the drugs.
That was just a comment. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
I think the member on my right is very happy that he’s going home tomorrow.
Under Community Justice, (interpretation ends) “programs to prevent crime in the community.” (interpretation) I saw that in Pond Inlet, for example, there were about 158 employees working at the co-op last summer.
Baffinland has about 200 employees.
We didn’t hear about many big crimes other than misdemeanors.
If we get an arena, maybe the crime rate will disappear altogether after ten years.
It’s true that we have to help each other.
The government and the communities have to work together because residents know exactly what is going on. Maybe the government can come up with a program and co-plan it with the community. In the business plan under the main estimates, there’s $2,407,000 in Grants and Contributions.
Maybe we could get the funding from there because the communities are starting to think of ways to help each other out, but we would have to have a coordinator so that it could run better.
When someone commits a crime, it affects the whole community, so I wanted to ask the minister if they have community crime prevention programs included in there.
These will help the communities for sure.
The federal government also provides funding to the communities every year and it will help tremendously.
We do have Justice Committees and they are under that, Community Justice Committees, and it’s up to the discretion of the committee as to how they want to spend this funding.
If they want to take them out hunting for further skill development, it’s up to the discretion of the community as to how it would positively be used.
Perhaps the minister has considered how much that will cost.
Actually, we know how much it will be, $2,407,000.
When you are planning next year’s main estimates, under O&M, you have to keep your options open, especially as to how communities can work with crime prevention programs and whether communities wish to plan future crime prevention programs. What is the position communities have in respect to these programs?
I’m sure that prevention programs developed would be slightly dissimilar but close enough.
Our generation grew up with hardly any parenting skills due to the fact that we were pulled out of our parents’ homes and immediately lost the teachings of our parents since we were taught via observation, and therefore, a lot of us lack parenting skills.
It is only due to our own ideas of discipline that some of us try to parent our children as a father or mother based on non-Inuit ideas.
Some people absolutely cannot deal with parenting issues and therefore, when they start having disciplinary problems, they tend to leave their children alone.
Although the child may not wish to become a criminal, they end up as criminals because they don’t know any better.
Some of the communities have great ideas and are aware of the underlying problems. I’m wondering if the minister can brainstorm ideas with the communities without any financial restraints obstructing the dialogue, especially to get ideas from communities as to how they want to plan crime prevention programs in their communities.
We have increased the funding that will be used for the communities and will be at their discretion how best to spend them and they will be giving us reports, so we will want to look at the reports closely.
This is fairly new, so we will have to keep a close eye on it to see what amendments or changes we will have to make.
I will be very happy if it is approved.
We’re on (interpretation ends) page E-9. Branch Summary.
Total Operations and Maintenance, to be Voted. $4,609,000. (interpretation) Do you agree?
Go back to page E-3.
Justice. Detail of Expenditures.
Total Operations and Maintenance, to be Voted. $66,749,000.
The comments you have made are excellent and will be very useful in the future.
I would like to thank my officials. We prepared those main estimates with your suggestions.
Thank you very much and have a good meeting.
Thank you, Mr. Webber.
Thank you, Mr. Dingle.
We will be taking a break at 5:45. Minister of Economic Development and Transportation, please proceed with your opening comments.
Bill 23 – Appropriation (Operations & Maintenance) Act, 2008-2009 – Consideration in Committee – Economic Development & Transportation
I’ll try and complete this before 5:45.
I am very pleased, as the Minister for Economic Development and Transportation, to present the department’s budget for 2008-09 and to outline for you some of the spending priorities for the coming year.
With me today are members of senior management from the department: Rosemary Keenainak, Deputy Minister; Methusalah Kunuk, Assistant Deputy Minister responsible for Transportation; Jane Cooper, Assistant Deputy Minister responsible for Economic Development; and Sherri Rowe, Director of the Finance and Administration Division. They will assist me in responding to your questions.
Thank you. (interpretation ends) The budget we are reviewing today is for expenditures for salaries, grants and contributions, and operations by the Department of Economic Development and Transportation. The total budget, Mr. Chairman, I am proposing for the 2008-09 fiscal year is $55,131,000.
In 2007-08, the department’s budget was $52,246,000.
Our new budget provides an increase of $2,885,000 for 2008-09 – about 5.5 percent more than the previous year.
This budgetary increase has been approved by the FMB to allow the department to address four key priorities in both our Economic Development and Transportation branches.
In summary, Mr. Chairman, these key priorities are:
Improvements to the Motor Vehicles Office, $535,000;
Implementation of the Nunavut Arts & Crafts Strategy, $835,000;
Implementation of strategies for fisheries development and for sealing, $575,000; and
Implementation of Parnautit, the Nunavut Mineral Exploration and Mining Strategy, $940,000.
These increases reflect the department’s principal goals for the coming year.
First, we want to improve the delivery of services in our communities.
This will include the strengthening of the department’s relationships with the territorial corporations and with partner organizations through improvements to regulations, policies and reporting requirements.
The department also will streamline the procedures it uses to process applications and complete contribution agreements.
Secondly, we are going to work to capture the benefits for Nunavummiut that are arising from developments in key economic sectors.
These include major opportunities in the mining sector, as you know, Mr. Chairman, but also in our growing fishery, the cultural industries, and in our traditional harvesting economy.
Finally, we want to continue to support the growth of the private sector, maintaining our budgetary commitments and promoting the Strategic Investments program and the Small Business Support program, and improving the information available to business about the regulatory environment and opportunities for development.