EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
As far as the apprentices go, Mr. Chairman, I know, as part of the housing trust delivery strategy of which the member helped approve and implement, there were a number of initiatives in there to be able to help attract individuals in the communities in Nunavut to be able to work in a trades position within there and there were things like limiting the workweek and things like that.
So there were a lot of steps that were previously done as far as being able to have individuals who were interested in getting into a trade and the apprentice program through the trust to make it more attractable for them to be able to work in it.
I know in the past, when you have contractors come in with a workforce coming in from out of town, they would work as long as they could and that didn’t work well for people and individuals in the communities who had a family who needed to go out hunting on the weekend to be able to provide country food for their families.
So there were changes that were made and approved in the past on that.
As far as exactly the stages that they are at in their apprenticeships and how they are doing, Mr. Chairman, as I had indicated last week, that falls under the jurisdiction of the Department of Education and their apprenticeship program. I believe the Minister of Education would be the appropriate person to provide that information.
I’m finished with those questions. I’m sure my colleagues will have some questions.
Just to elaborate a little bit more on the question that Mr. Okalik asked the minister in regard to those tanks there, you were saying that it was a direct contract with the housing corporation to the tank company.
What I’m asking is: was any middle company involved in putting the tender out for bids or did the housing corporation do that directly here in Iqaluit?
To the best of my knowledge, as I had indicated, the purchase order for the tanks was issued right from the Nunavut Housing Corporation to Granby Tanks.
I had asked the question there on Thursday in regard to those SIP panels and the company that was or is about to be awarded the contract.
I asked the question if these panels are CSA approved and the answer I got was, well, they must be because the housing corporation engineers or whatever had looked into it.
I would like to know for sure if he can check out for me that these panels are CSA approved.
To my knowledge, as I had indicated that there would be all of the technical codes and everything, the requirements are there for these panels. So I would assume that the Canadian safety standards, I think that that is what the CSA is, would be covered off under the building code.
When do you anticipate this contract to be finalized for these SIP panels?
As I had indicated earlier, that contract was finalized on October 29.
Just in terms of the new SIP houses that are being used and contracted out, and I guess the first round is coming up on the boat, are there any cost savings between a stick-built home and an SIP home?
For budgeting purposes, we’re budgeting the same amount.
We know that there will be some cost savings as far as constructions go, but they will probably be a little more expensive for shipping. So we figure it will balance out; it will roughly be the same amount as a stick-built unit.
I guess my next question then is: if there is no significant cost difference between the two types of homes being built, why do it then?
There are a number of advantages to going with these structural insulated panel units.
One of them that we know of is, say, if a community was getting five units and with the way the materials are reaching the communities, sometimes as late as October and November that these materials would arrive there, a community would usually only have time prior to… .
If it got too cold and miserable out there to be doing anything, they wouldn’t be able to have all of those units closed in and airtight in that season.
With the structural insulated panel units, they’re anticipating that… . After the demonstration that was held down at the Illamar marshalling yard this summer, they were saying that after the first one and once they get the hang of it, they’re looking at having the unit from when it arrives to when they start working on it and completely close it in airtight within three to five days per unit.
So what that would allow is that we would be able to get all of the units closed in and airtight, and then they would basically be able to extend the building season for the whole year. They would go around and temporarily heat these units and do the work on the inside in all five of the units instead of just being able to get one done because of the timing.
One of the other significant benefits of these units is the fact that, as I have said in the past, they’re being spec’d to be 50 percent higher than the national energy standard.
Right now, we know that it costs us on the average about a little over $21,000 a year to maintain a public housing unit across the territory.
From the numbers that we’re looking at with the new energy efficiency of these units, that should significantly reduce our O&M costs on the units, which is a big chunk of our housing budget.
With the condensed foam that’s in between the interior and exterior units that comprise of the panel, this also eliminates the space and the stuff that allows mould to grow in these units. So that is a considerable amount of benefits to using this technology over the traditional stick build.
My next question is in regard to the apprentices and the training of the people who are working on the Nunavut Housing Trust.
You had asked Minister Tapardjuk in terms of the Department of Education, so I’ll save those questions for a later date because it would be nice to know.
It’s nice that we have 51 people in the trades program, but it would be nice to know whether they are at level 1, level 2, whether they’re involved in plumbing or not.
With the new SIP buildings, is that going to jeopardize any of the time in which these apprentices are working? Are they still going to get the same number of hours working towards their trade?
The individuals who are working in the apprenticeship program will still have ample opportunity to get the hours that they require for their certification with this method of delivery.
On J-5, where it talks about the secured storage, there’s $900,000 being allocated.
I know the minister sort of has been very helpful in answering a lot questions on the Nunavut Housing Trust project, which is the $200 million, and this is the budget for this year.
So that we don’t get them confused or I don’t get confused, the storage area, that’s the storage area for the housing associations within the communities or are these being used to build storage facilities for the telehandlers that are coming to the communities?
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Elliott. Minister Tootoo.
These structures, as I had indicated last week, they’re 31 by 60, roughly 1,860 square feet, I believe. They’re going to be provided to the local housing organizations to be able to use as secured storage for any of their materials.
If they decide to store their telehandler in there, that’s their prerogative. It’s up to the LHO.
Chairman: Thank you, Minister Tootoo. Mr. Elliott.
Again on J-5, where it’s the Fire Damage Replacement, the $1 million that’s being requested under that, I’m just curious to find out.
In Arctic Bay, we had two homes over the last couple of years that were burned.
One was a duplex and that’s in the process of being constructed now.
The other was a single-family dwelling.
Is that for one of those dwellings to be replaced in Arctic Bay?
The member is correct that that duplex has been covered off, but we’re still waiting to get a report from the housing authority on the damage and cost to replace that single family dwelling unit. It hasn’t been reported yet.
Also on J-5, I just wanted to find out. In terms of the three regions for the homeownership programs, does that include all types of programs like the MAP and all of the different types?
Yes, that’s correct. That $4 million covers off all of the homeownership programs covered under the Nunavut Housing Corporation. As I indicated in my opening comments, we doubled that amount from last year because of demand.
Chairman: Thank you, Minister Tootoo. Mr. Aupaluktuq.
I would like to welcome back the Hon. Minister Tootoo and Ms. Kimball, the Executive Director of Corporate Services and Chief Financial Officer.
I apologize if my questions have been previously asked by other members of the committee. Perhaps the chair and staff can educate me if they were covered, as I didn’t bring my copies of the Hansard at present.
My questions are directed towards homeownership programs, for example, the Nunavut Downpayment Assistance Program, the Material Assistance Program, the Senior and Disabled Persons Preventative Maintenance Program. Has the Nunavut Housing Corporation evaluated if any of these homeownership programs are successful and if there are any programs that are more successful or not?
As I had indicated in the past, I don’t quite remember if it was in question period or in previous Committee of the Whole, our homeownership programs are drawn upon quite heavily.
The only program right now that doesn’t have a significant draw on is the Material Assistance Program. To address that, we are looking at a different design of a structure to try and help make it more attractable to individuals out there to be able to access that program.
But I think overall, under the homeownership programs from April until this fall, we’ve had a total of 558 applications, the majority of those being on the Home Repair Program with 229 individuals applied under that program. So they are quite popular out there with the homeowners. Now that we’ve got more money, double the money in homeownership, we will have more money to be able to help address those individuals’ needs.
Your 2009-2010 business plan priority is to “Finalize the review of Homeownership policies and guidelines…” Presently, what’s the status of this review?
I believe I had indicated last spring that that is something that we will be conducting, a review of all our programs in the corporation right now.
I think I made the announcement earlier this fall that the new president is coming online and that’s going to be one of the things that I’m going to task that individual. The first thing is for them to look at it along with the rent scale review to be able to move forward on it.
Again in the 2009-2010 capital estimates budgeted, $500,000 for retrofits to the Baker Lake Local Housing Organization Warehouse was provided. Which other LHOs may require similar funding in future years?
There are no dollars in this budget right now to deal with community warehouse issues. However, part of dealing with some of this is by being able to provide those steel structures, those secured storage facilities in the communities to help address some of the communities’ needs.
On every line, there is a number before a dollar sign.
It is not uncommon, pertaining to my community of Kugaaruk, during the construction of new housing, the homeownership programs, retrofits, name it, there are tonnes and tonnes of drywall ending up in the garbage dump.
Boxes and boxes of insulation material are ending up in the garbage dump because of the mishandling, shipping, lack of storage in the community, you name it, maybe vandalism and what have you.
Now, when there is a shortage of such material for construction and the home is not being able to be completed and there are a whole lot of people waiting for homes, who pays for these damaged materials? Is it the housing corporation contractor, the shipper, or whoever?
I would say that in each individual case, it would depend on the circumstances and who was responsible for the material at the time.
I think that in some cases, if it’s as a result of damage during shipping, it may be covered by the shipping company. If it’s a contractor, once they start the contract, then they are responsible for the materials. It may be the contractor responsible for that.
It would depend on the particular circumstances as to who would be responsible for that.
In such cases, sometimes maybe we have a field day in the garbage truck and we can collect stuff that is still usable in the community.
Does the housing corporation keep track of how much money is being lost because of mishandling, shipping, elements, weather, and other damages?
It is my understanding that if there are shortages in the communities, they report back to the district office and that all gets rolled in at the time.
Now, even for stuff for this year, if they’re not starting on that project this season or until the spring, sometimes it takes them quite some time before they get into it to find out whether any of the materials have been damaged or not.
Damage, Mr. Chairman, is one thing, but costs are being incurred because someone is not doing what they should be doing, trying to save money for the government, especially when you need more housing. So is there any way to keep track of things being lost?
I think that was also a driver behind providing these secured storage facilities in the communities for them to be able to store safely materials that arrive into the community.
Also, Mr. Chairman, the corporation just recently updated our MMOS system to be able to track that type of information, so the system has been just upgrading. They have been doing training in the communities throughout Nunavut on that to be able to track things like that.
Mr. Ningark: Again I’ll speak for my community.
If the government is willing to too, this means… .
We have a local co-op and I am sure that they would be more than willing to do business. They will look after the warehousing. When you come to the community, then you have all of the materials, especially in the areas of drywalling and insulation.
Have you ever looked at that possibility?
When materials hit the ground in the communities, they fall under the watchful eye of the contractor that has the contract to build the unit.
In some cases, it could be a private contractor, where they would be responsible for storing and looking after the materials.
In some cases, it’s the local housing organization that has the contract to do that.
In some communities, it’s the hamlet itself that has that contract to construct those units. So it would be up to them as to how or where they choose to store those materials.
My question will be more along the lines of what Mr. Elliott was asking earlier.
Presently, under the stick-build system, the ship comes in, the materials show up, and at present, they’re building the units up until December, then there is a three-or four-month shut down, and then they come in the spring and finish up the units.
With the new design, you indicated that you would be able to get them out of the weather a lot faster after the ship comes to the community and that you could extend the construction season.
So are you indicating that there will be no shutdown during the three or four months that you presently do?
I would say that would be up to the contractor that has the contract. The opportunity would be there for them to continue all year round if they chose to do so.
That would depend specifically on the contractor.
You indicated that it’s up to the contractor, but earlier or on Friday, you said that that time period was also used for apprentices to go to schools and stuff. So how can you leave it up to a contractor to make that decision if they want to extend the season or not?
I’m just trying to get clear what the new program will be.
The corporation is working closely with Nunavut Arctic College and the Department of Education to identify when those training opportunities are required for those individuals who are in the apprenticeship program.
Also, as I had indicated, it was part of the Nunavut Housing Trust that those hours have to be there for those apprentices. So they will have the opportunity and the time that they need to be able to go and do the theory part of their program as well.
With regard to getting these new design units, so to speak, out of the weather in a few days, I think I heard indications that it was probably like a 20 to 25 percent savings in labour costs if I’m correct, I may be off.
In terms of man-hours, do you have any idea of how much savings there will be?
I think the SIP three-bedroom unit is about 300 hours less than what it would take a traditional stick built unit to be built.
I think it’s just a little over 2,000 hours for a traditional stick built model and it’s around 1,700 hours with a SIP unit.
Presently, in my community, I fill out EI applications for a few employees who are on the construction site and a lot of them barely have enough hours to qualify.
So if you’re going to take away another 300 hours from the construction season in smaller communities, are we not going to put a strain on our income support system?
I believe, like I said earlier, that there will still be ample time and lots of hours for individuals to be able to work during the construction season before they close down for three months, or four months in some places, to deal with the cold weather.
With these units, like I said, they will be sealed off and closed in, so they will be able to work on them for a longer period of time.
Also recognizing the fact of the requirement for apprentices going out to take their theoretical part of the program, I think it’s a one-month program, but it doesn’t take that whole time, so there’s still the availability there of extending the current construction season.
I don’t really agree with the minister. Right now, we shut down for a period of time during the winter and then construction picks up again in the spring. The house still gets built within a year whether you finish it during the winter or you wait until next spring and finish it within a year.
All I’m trying to get across is that you’re still going to have less hours for workers on these buildings.
I just think that it’s going to cause further hardships for families who barely get enough hours to qualify for EI.
As I indicated, I believe that there will still be ample work for people in the communities. Based on the member’s concerns, we will monitor the hours that are put in throughout this coming year and see if it is an issue or not.
Like I said, I don’t believe that it will be, but I’m human too. No one is perfect.
I will commit that that is something that the corporation will monitor.
There is a requirement under the contracts for the contractors to submit for the number of hours that the people working for them are working.
So keeping track of that, we will be able to monitor it and if there are issues, we will address them.
First of all, I don’t know whether I see it here or not and the minister can possibly help me. I did ask a question on this issue earlier.
There are warehouses that house things that should be kept in a heated area.
Do we have enough heated warehousing in the communities to house the supplies and so on that can be damaged environmentally?
The member brings up a good point and I know that’s something that is a challenge that the corporation has faced, not so much the corporation but even the contracts. When the materials sometimes get to the communities so late in the year, sometimes you have paint that arrives off the boat and it’s frozen already by the time it gets there.
One of the things that is in place right now is that the contractor or marshaller provides a map, if you want to call it, of what’s in where so that when that stuff does arrive to the community, they are able to identify which perishable items or “unfreezables” could be affected by the cold weather or the rain or whatever to be able to be moved into appropriate facilities.
Actually, I had questions on this specific matter. Currently, in the communities, sea cans are used as warehouses by the housing authority, the LHOs. Even though they have a warehouse, they are utilizing these sea cans as workshops, repair shops, and so on.
My question was: are the LHOs getting adequate, heated warehouses to house all of those materials that can be damaged by freezing temperatures? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I believe that right now, most communities have or were able to find or obtain adequate storage in the community, but the member brings up a very good issue.
Over the last number of years between the housing trust and this new federal stimulus money, there are going to be over a thousand more units on the ground throughout the territory.
As the public housing stock in a community grows, the requirement for facilities to be able to store the materials necessary to maintain those units will become an issue as well.
That’s something that we are aware of and looking at trying to deal with.
Just moving to another issue, I will be talking a little bit on marshalling.
I have been informed that Illamar Marshalling Incorporated of Ontario was given a two-year contract to be responsible for the handling of delivery of buildings and will be responsible for the structured panels. Who owns Illamar Marshalling?
Is it possible for you to table that information in the House?
Right now, because Illamar is a privately owned company, we cannot find out who the shareholders are by law, but I think the president of Illamar is named.
I remember that it was something that was brought up in the House a few years ago when the contract was entered into with them, when I was sitting on your side of the House. The individual’s name is Brian Cox, who runs Illamar.
Besides Brian Cox, are there other principals involved in this company?
Although that is privately owned, owners are sometimes not mentioned, but it’s very often that they’re told.
We knew who owned the Edmonton Oilers before; we knew all the bunch of owners.
Can he at least provide us with principals of that company if there’s not just one owner?
If there’s only one owner, fine, but are there other principals in that company that he could provide for us?
As I had indicated earlier, if it’s a privately owned corporation in Canada, we cannot find out who the shareholders are.
One of the things that the corporation is doing to be proactive on this, as it seems to have caught the interest of some of the members, is any new contracts that we enter into will have a disclosure clause in the contract itself. So that’s something that we’re working on with the Department of Justice to include into the contracts.
Can he indicate to us when that will be ready for our use?
I need to apologize. The corporation isn’t working with the Department of Justice on this. Our own legal counsel is the one who is developing that clause for us to go into our contracts.
I just want to set the record straight and not get the officials in the Department of Justice worried over there.
They’re probably wondering what I was talking about when I said that. I’m sorry.
Mr. Chairman, we’re hoping to have that within the next week or two and as I said, any new contract that we enter into will have that clause in it.
I am glad that we will be able to find the owners, if there is more than one owner, and who the main players are in that company. I don’t want to be surprised later on.
Even though we have no idea who these people are, according to the minister, who own the companies, we contract them anyways.
I don’t want to finally find out later on that there are surprises and surprises.
So it would be a good idea if that amendment can be made so that we will know who we are contracting with.
I appreciate the member’s support in the work we’re trying to do as far as including clauses like that in our contracts.
I have no more names on my list. Page J-3. Nunavut Housing Corporation.
Branch Summary. Total Capital Expenditures. Nunavut Housing Corporation. $27,269,000.
Chairman: Page J-2. Nunavut Housing Corporation.
Detail of Expenditures. Department Summary. Total Capital Expenditures. $27,269,000.
Chairman: Are you agreed that the Nunavut Housing Corporation is concluded?
I would like to ask the minister if he has any closing comments.
First off, I would like to thank the committee members for very good questions, concerns, and suggestions.