EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
I think when we discuss Boundaries Commission, if people has questions of that nature, I prefer Patrick, our legal counsel, to answer them because I don’t like to appear to have any desire to influence that.
Having been a member of the previous Boundaries Commission, I may have more opinions than I want to have on that issue.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Ms. Kusugak.
You have ten minutes for general comments.
I don’t have anyone on my list so we can go on to questions if you have any questions.
She welcomes any comments; she took long trip to come here.
I understand that Ms. Kusugak took the long route to get here.
I think, as you mentioned earlier today, she was accompanied by the Minister of Transportation, who saw first hand as a result of that long trip, the snow in your community.
I would like to welcome Ms. Kusugak and Mr. Orr to the Assembly.
I know that their job, the CEOs job, especially during election time, is not always a fun one.
As we all know as elected members that there is always someone that wants to complain about something at one point.
I tip my hat to Ms. Kusugak and her staff for doing the best that they could with the resources that they had available.
I think that they did a good job.
One of the things that this report allows us to take a look at is we all make changes or make decisions, or make regulations or make rules based on assumptions, or best educated guesses, or informed decisions based on having information.
I know that there were a number of new initiatives, especially in the ways of voting this time around.
This report gives us and the CEO an opportunity to evaluate how those decisions, whether they were good or identify any of the problems as a result of that.
I think that it is a very important process to be able to look at that.
My first question is that there were some new voting initiatives that were brought forward.
As a member of the last Standing Committee to make some of those recommendations, based on the consultations that we did and concerns that we heard from people throughout the territory, now that we have actually gone through a process that we have implemented and lived through that practice I would just like to ask if it was successful.
Do they recommend any changes, or anything to be concerned about with some of the new voting options that were put forward in the last general election?
Ms. Kusugak: We found that the voting provisions that were made, and again, that came from so many sources.
We were able to take the community consultations, which the Ajauqtiit Committee boiled into the recommendations of David Hamilton, the former CEO, and then I was able to talk to my colleagues across Canada about things that they were doing and thought were good, and put those together in the Act, so it’s a benefit of a whole lot of peoples’ wisdoms.
In general, we received a very positive response particularly with the mobile voting.
Our people that were at home that were unable to get out of the house were extremely happy with it; we received many compliments.
The mobile poll voting, the Deputy Returning Officer can, according to a schedule, take the ballot around to the homes of people who are unable to go to the polls.
And that was really popular, except with the one person who wanted to have a mobile poll because they were out of gas that morning, and I said, “Hmm, that’s kind of probably the limit.”
But the special balloting worked extremely well for our students, for the people on vacation, and for people that are in jail.
Those were the primary targets for special balloting.
We were able to use the people at Financial Assistance for Nunavut Students to promote the process of special balloting; they certainly didn’t give us peoples’ addresses or contact them directly, but we sent them our information all electronically and they sent it out to all of the students that received financial assistance.
So we know we are at least in contact with most of those.
The same went for the people that were in jail, so we know the information got out to them.
One problem we did have was Canada Post regulations that have come into force since 9/11, as we are famously calling it.
Canada Post requires that Express Post packages must be in the post office for eight hours plus the length of the flight they are about to have.
So when we spent the weekend preparing special ballots and dealing with it right up to the moment because of course in Nunavut, with our weather and transportation, etc..., we really want to move very quickly to ensure that special ballots get to the voter and get back to us in the time required.
We discovered that even though we had them into the post office the very first thing on Monday morning that they were going to have to sit there until Wednesday before they moved to Iqaluit or going west.
So I am hoping that we can work with Canada Post to change this because if we are to offer this service to people, then we have to have reasonable expectation that if they act promptly that they can expect that their ballot gets back to us some time.
I did, on more than a couple of occasions, when I discovered that was their policy, I took the ballots immediately to the airline, just had them sent that way, and they did go the same day.
So either way, we will have to have a change in procedure or I guess we have to consider whether it’s wise to offer people the service if we don’t think that their ballots will get back in time to be counted if we are not able to change the policy with Canada Post or have some special dispensation for Elections Nunavut mailed during an election, etc.... So that’s something we will work with on them.
Chairman: Thank you, Ms. Kusugak.
That’s good to hear that some of the work of the last Committee and the last Assembly did, and that there was good feedback from Nunavummiut on some of those things.
So I think one of the important things to remember with any election, you want to try and maximize the participation.
It would be great if we get one hundred percent minus the guy that ran out of gas on his way down with his snowmobile, those ones you can’t help deal with it.
The whole thing of educating the public and the importance of how they can get out and vote is great.
One of the other recommendations that were made in the last Assembly to try and address one of the issues that was a problem and that was enumeration that was to move towards a permanent voters list.
Maybe I can just get some comments on that transition.
Is the first time that we have gone with a permanent voters list?
How that worked and any things that we may need to tweak to address some areas of concern within that whole process and how well it worked this time around.
Ms. Kusugak: Overall the registration process worked well.
We still have a number of people, although we show them the section in the Act that really indicates that the voter information is used for electoral purposes, are still convinced somehow that the list will be used to make jury lists.
I don’t know beyond that what we can say to people to convince them.
We have used the municipal elections as an opportunity to update the voters list.
We have set up tables at their elections in order to take in any changes and new registrations.
We are also, with the broadband coming on any day, any hour, our returning officer will be using the laptops that they have as part of their jobs to update the voters list in there for their constituencies on our web based system.
They have not done that before, we did all the data entry at headquarters previously.
As soon as the broadband is activated then we get them trained and on this and they will be doing that as a matter of course.
In the discussion about community government, as we said, talking about working together with them.
One of the things that is possible is that we will be able to produce the voters list for the municipality.
In small communities perhaps that is not an issue for the municipality, but in the larger ones it certainly is.
I know that the City of Iqaluit is very interested in having a relationship with us so that we can help produce their voters list.
We could produce materials for them, etc.
It will reduce the amount of duplication of effort and should make things a little more efficient.
Other than that we are going to use our web based system as a learning opportunity for our Returning Officers.
We will also be able to get information through agreements from Motor Vehicles, as people update their vehicle registration, their personal drivers licenses, they will be able to have a check box that will allow them to also provide information to Elections Nunavut.
One of the interesting things that is happening in a number of provinces across the country is that they are having a one stop shop place to change contact information.
Primarily this is working online, but it can work any other way too through normal mail or fax, residents can go online and update their healthcare information, update their motor vehicles, etc., to give those new address or name change information to those agencies.
They can pick and choose.
I think that would be probably in Nunavut where we have people to update their name changes, etc, this might be something that we consider, it would be a way to look at the future.
I know Ms. Kusugak touched on it a little bit and I know that it was something that, again, that the standing committee, the last time around, had recommended, and that was having not so much just elections, but at that time of year when elections would happen.
And I know she also mentioned that other jurisdictions in Canada are looking at that now as well, and I am sure all members are aware, in British Columbia, they have the date of their elections is now fixed by law and the public knows long in advance that when the next election is going to be.
Maybe just to get an idea from your perspective as the Chief Electoral Officer, what would be some of the advantages and disadvantages of adopting that type of approach here in Nunavut?
Ms. Kusugak: Well, as an administrator, I think I can only see the advantages.
I am sure there are disadvantages to other people.
If we were to be a reference point or to help out Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated or the municipalities in their elections, then we need to be able to stagger the times for those; they would also have to commit to specific times for their elections.
We are a small office and we can’t have the peaks of activity happening at the same time.
It requires a long time to prepare for an election even in our small jurisdiction and a long time to do the recovery work on it.
We would know, for instance, when our returning officers need to be available; if some of them needed to be seconded from other kinds of jobs, we would be able to make those preparations.
We can contract with the municipalities or whoever for providing office space for the returning officers; we would know what specific amount of time we would need.
It’s the same with the polling places.
So we could create our documents well in advance; the dates would be on them, we could work slowly and build the information.
We would also know more clearly of when we would be freer to help the other organizations and what kind of work we could do for them.
Mr. Tootoo: Does she have some more to add to that?
Chairman: Ms. Kusugak.
Ms. Kusugak: Sorry, I was just going to say that Mr. Orr could speak to the legal part of that issue about, if you wish.
Chairman: Okay. Mr. Orr.
There are two issues from the legal point of view.
The first is section 17 of the Nunavut Act requires that the commissioner is the one who can dissolve the Legislative Assembly after consultation with the Assembly to have a fixed date in statute might require some change to the Nunavut Act to allow it to be done.
An alternative would be to have it to set up that kind of a customary thing that there’s basically a contention of the House that a certain date be chosen and not have it actually enshrined in statute.
The other thing, of course, is there are triggers in the Nunavut Elections Act that are for financing purposes that when the date of an election is known, the pre-election expense period starts to run.
We would have to accommodate that because if you knew four years in advance of what the election date for it, you would basically have a pre-election period of four years.
So you would have to make some kind of an accommodation for that.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Orr.
Mr. Orr, I thank him for that; that’s something, I have never heard of pre-election expenses and any thought on how we may look at trying to address that issue.
Off the cuff, I can think of two ways to do it, the first is to choose an arbitrary period of time, perhaps six months or so before the fixed Election Day for the pre-election expense period to run and adjust the amount of the pre-elections expenses as required.
The alternative would be to have the whole pre-election expense provisions applied to the whole time that the members sit, and then add more sophisticated provisions dealing with contributions to the Member while sitting as a Member, adjusting the levels of what’s allowed and what’s not allowed.
This is something that I think, if I can refer to the Gomery Inquiry, there might be issues coming out of that inquiry dealing with special situations the Government of Canada’s facing, of course with it’s facing the same by any means what Nunavut is facing, but there might be recommendations for how to deal with financing concerns during the sitting of the members, we might want to look at that.
Chairman: Thank you Mr. Orr, Mr. Tootoo.
Mr. Chairman the other area that Mr. Orr talked about in regards to the Nunavut act, would it be necessary if there was consensus, an agreement or a custom, or what ever you want to call it, just to say one of the first things the Assembly decides is when the next election is going to be, setting a time for it, now granting anything can happen between that date and the day you make a decision and when that day finally comes.
If that was the way in which the Assembly chose to pursue that, if it does chose to pursue that, would that type of thing require an amendment to the Nunavut act or would that basically it’s still in consultation with the Assembly and the executive council to the Commissioner. We know how hard it is to amend the policies at the territorial level, never mind the federal level, who knows, there could be an election next week called but then the things that go down there with the Gomery Inquiry.
Maybe just get some comments on that idea.
Chairman: Thank you Mr. Tootoo, Mr. Orr.
Mr. Orr: In my opinion, in dealing with this by way of convention gives you the most flexibility, and would not require any amendment to the Nunavut Act, there are provision in the Nunavut Act, the disallowance of territorial legislation by the federal government that have not used, conventionally that are not used, constitutionally speaking convention can vary written statutory provisions, and I think that may be the best way to go in the beginning.
So basically a convention adopted by the house with consultation with the commissioner and it’s a way of practice, it would not require an amendment, it would give you more flexibility.
Thank you, Mr. Orr.
You know that old saying that there is more than one way to skin a cat, look for the easiest way to do something.
Mr. Chairman, my next question. is for the chief electoral officer, Ms. Kusugak, in appendix I, they talked about some recommendations that were made by the first Assembly, that Elections Nunavut should work with in consultation with the Department of Education to ensure elections as part of the curriculum for elementary and high school students.
I know when we met five years ago with Mr. Kingsley and other people at Elections Canada, they had booklets that went out, they had in Inuktitut on a program that could be delivered and used by teachers in schools.
I am just wondering if they are looking at maybe adopting or utilizing that same material or developing something new.
I know that the Minister of Education is always saying that we are entering into a fundamental shift in the way that education is delivered in the territory.
If our goal is to try and maximize participation down the road in an election, which is the ultimate goal of any election and democratic process to educate the young people on the importance of it and how it works and different information about the whole process.
That will help us achieve that down the road.
We won’t see the results right now but that will be something that will happen down the road.
So I am just wondering if we can get some comments from you on that any plans or ideas that you have on pursuing that?
Ms. Kusugak: A number of you know I started life in Nunavut as a teacher, so this is something that is important to me as well.
I know that the discussions that I have had with people in education have been so far we need to set aside a time to talk about this and to talk about this and to plan it out.
And that’s really two or three sentences are as far as we have gotten so far.
It’s certainly on my agenda, certainly on theirs, they always have a lot of issues that they are dealing with.
We will be setting aside a time to come up with a plan and a timeline for seeing what they offer at the moment in terms of civics.
What part we could play in helping them to develop materials.
What part they would play.
Where the materials are, etc.
Some of the provinces in the country do a great deal of work with the students in helping them to develop student council elections.
I just got some materials from Quebec the other day.
Quebec is very active in this regard.
So we could examine the materials that have been developed already in the country and look at what education has so far, and try and make a plan for developing it.
That is really the most basic discussions that we have had so far.
Mr. Tootoo, you time is up at the moment.
If you have anymore questions, they will be at the chair’s discretion, I will put your name down for a few more questions.
Welcome Ms. Kusugak and Mr. Orr to the witness table.
It is good to see you here to answer some of our questions or concerns.
I think a lot of Nunavummiut would like to hear us plan for the next election.
I recall when I looked at the Elections Act, going through it and I am not a lawyer, most of us in Nunavut aren’t, it was quite a complicated document to go through.
And then you had to cross reference different sections.
Just thinking back now it was quite an ordeal to wade through it and actually know what they are looking for.
I asked a couple of questions that I had at that time.
I don’t think I had clear answers on them, I am wondering if you could answer them for me now.
On the day of the election it says that the nominations close at two pm.
How do you ensure that it is two pm that is considered like a central location like Greenwich Mean Time instead of local time?
People’s clocks can be five minutes off.
I know in Cambridge Bay our siren is supposed to ring twelve o’clock, but will ring ten to eleven minutes early because it has lost time.
We have to reset it every few months.
Some of us that are watching via CBC time, which is very accurate.
You might well see other clocks in the community hanging on walls that are five or ten minutes out.
How do you ensure that it is two pm, the time of two pm that you want it to be closed, as opposed to people going by their watches or some other time?
How do you ensure that?
Ms. Kusugak: The time is local time.
Of course for those constituencies where there is more than one time zone, the Returning Officer establishes which time they are using and advertises that.
We established a time and of course we apply it.
Our objective in that is not so much to deny people’s ability to standardize so that if people bringing their nominations are in the door by around two o’clock, then we are going to accept them.
There is certainly always the difficulty that clocks are different in all of our communities as we know the electricity varies so that you can have a clock that is set correctly one day and not another.
I would say that my issue is that I would really like to promote people putting their nominations in early so that we don’t have this problem.
I don’t want to discourage people from being nominated but clearly if they wait until one or two minutes to two in their local time, the possibilities are great that they have left something out, or have misread something or one of their nominators is not actually eligible to be a voter and to nominate.
There is that difficulty and we would like to clarify it.
I would like to see people really working to get their nominations in at the beginning of the nomination period.
For the next election the papers will be available either electronically or on paper very early on.
People can actually collect the papers before the nomination period opens.
They just can’t deliver them and consign them to you until that time.
I don’t really know what else to say in that matter.
For some people the process of being nominated is tied up with their employment.
If they are required to take a leave from the time their nomination is entered, and so it means that they will lose salary dollars the earlier the nomination is entered, which is not very encouraging on the aspects that I care about.
I don’t know whether I have really answered your question, Mr. Peterson.
I understand the difficulty that you are having.
We can give a directive that our Returning Officer regulate their time by CBC. In fact, we did ask them to do that in the last election.
Informally we asked them to set their faxes so we knew the fax machines were correct as far as they could.
I think that we do our best as imprecise as it is.
Thank you, Ms. Kusugak.
I know when something is tendered for contracts I think Public Works has a date and time clock.
They set it everyday.
It just eliminates any uncertainties, any ambiguities, any potential for someone accusing the department of accepting contracts or tender documents after a specified time.
It seems to me that the two pm for elections, unless you set your clock on that day your election time, not what’s on your watch or what everyone else thinks, it’s two pm set by elections people, synchronized to a very accurate source, and that’s what everybody should go by.
I’m sure that would eliminate a lot of ambiguities and inconsistencies or potential challenges by candidates that maybe the elections officers or the returning officers were showing favouritism to candidates who were coming in late.
I’m not sure how you do that, but battery operated clocks on the wall could be a real problem.
You made a comment about the nomination papers and that raised another question for me.
How does a returning officer determine or ensure that a candidate and or a nominator under the nomination papers is an eligible voter in Nunavut when they come in.
What information does the returning officer use to make a determination.
Ms. Kusugak: By in large if the person is eligible to be a voter, they’re eligible to be a candidate, unless they’ve broken an elections law. That pretty well covers everybody except for people who would know, like the Member of Parliament and the judges and etc, there’s a few people that can’t run as candidates.
Registering to vote itself would be the main process you would use to determine somebody’s eligibility as a candidate.
Of course you can be a candidate in any constituency in Nunavut despite the place where you reside.
That’s the basics.
Chairman: Ms. Kusugak when you finish would you either say thank you or Mr. Chairman, so we know when to go to the next question.
Thank you Ms. Kusugak, I know when I went in with my nomination papers, the returning officer flipped through the first couple of pages and she challenged me on two of my nominators who have lived previously in Kugluktuk but lived in Cambridge Bay at the time they nominated me.
I knew that they lived in Cambridge Bay for twelve months proceeding the closing nomination.
I didn’t have a problem, but she challenged me, I actually had sixty or seventy people nominate me, so I had more then enough nominators.