EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
There have been a number of projects.
I made one example where projects, during the construction season, have been funnelled through hamlets by direct transfer of funds. So thereby and the view of the business community is they’re trying to bypass complying with Article 24.
There were some discussions within the bureaucracy, that may be the case, but I’m just saying that as one that was alluded to me once.
If that is the practice, will the minister ensure that he relies on the public tender process for projects in order to allow that the best prices from the service industry are taken and the compliance requirements of the government are actually carried out?
So that was the only thing I alluded to.
Your officials either misunderstood me or appear to indicate that the only thing that they transfer annually is the O&M funding through contribution agreements.
I don’t think that is just the case. I think there are many other funding programs that are channelled through the direct sole source.
I call them sole source.
If you’re going to transfer project funding, my understanding is the minister must have his signature on it, as the Municipalities Act allows you to.
Whether Mr. Curley calls them sole source or not, sole source has to be sole source. CGS doesn’t do sole source contracts with the municipalities.
I hope it’s clear that our government is not trying, in any way, to circumvent Article 24.
We are constantly working with Justice to try to determine the best way of doing business.
In terms of sole source contracts with the municipalities, CGS doesn’t do that.
We do have other departments within the government that does work with municipalities on different projects, but as for CGS and his question on that, everything is pretty much tendered out.
We don’t do sole source with hamlets.
I have no more names on my list for page J-6. (interpretation ends) Community and Government Services. Branch Summary. Government Services.
Total Operations and Maintenance. $73,306,000. (interpretation) Do you agree?
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you. Turn to page J-7. (interpretation ends) Branch Summary.
I have several questions relating to this page. First off, I want to speak to the Emergency Measures Organization under this portfolio, Mr. Minister.
I would like go back to my previous comments and in particular, our dedicated employee, whom we all know, Mr. Ed Zebedee, who seems to be working non-stop.
However, this matter that I believe should be reconsidered is the subject of my next question, especially with the people listening in throughout Nunavut.
I want to raise this policy currently used, specifically the three-day search requirement that applies to the SAR aircraft or the RCMP aircraft. Even when there is a helicopter available, the pilots don’t want any involvement prior to the three-day air search that is required.
In some situations, even that extra day can lead to very dangerous situations for the people who are lost.
A person with whom I’ve had the opportunity to call when there was a search underway in Rankin Inlet last spring and summer was unable to get involved due to this three-day policy. This was our emergency search and rescue coordinator.
Perhaps the minister can speak to this issue and whether or not this matter can be revisited to include exceptions to the rule.
I believe that in certain situations, it would be better to have an exception as Inuit and the SAR teams have experience with dangerous situations, especially in inclement weather, whether it is the extreme cold of winter or the possibility of freezing rain in the fall. People wonder if the lost hunter has no supplies.
In those cases, it can lead to dire straits.
So I’m asking if this matter of exceptional cases can be looked into.
Can the minister report on this issue when the issues have been resolved with respect to this policy?
Furthermore, the SAR teams are canvassed for their opinion when they are given training to improve their skills. We are very appreciative of that and I am always very happy to see this training being undertaken.
So if you could ensure that this policy is renegotiated, more people would be pleased to have this resolved.
It should be negotiated so that an exception can be made in certain situations.
Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Thank you for your question. I also thank you for acknowledging the search and rescue teams.
Also, I know Ed Zebedee, who is always busy and never seems to stop working, and his team work very hard without sleep when there’s an emergency to make sure that people are safe.
In regard to the comment you made, emergency varies and some are serious. You are more aware than I am of the fact that some hunters are in more danger than others when they need responses, especially if it’s a serious emergency or they have gotten ill.
There were people floating off on an ice pan yesterday or the day before. Without waiting, they went to do their search and rescue by helicopter.
Mr. Curley, we work on emergencies right away.
We try not to wait according to how urgent it is.
I am very pleased to hear that. When the people hear you speak to that issue, they will be very pleased.
The reason why I made that comment is I was in Rankin Inlet in the summer when there was an emergency issue. The government and the RCMP couldn’t do their search and rescue, but the mining company had a helicopter.
When I called the Meadowbank mine, the helicopter from the Meliadine mine arrived in less than half an hour. We really appreciate that and they found that individual.
I was also in the helicopter at that time coordinating. (interpretation ends) So we need improvements coordinated.
(interpretation) Also, Mr. Chairman, for CG&S, I would like to see more search and rescue training and development of training guidelines for the communities to use.
When we go out hunting, we don’t use lifejackets and people rarely ever follow the procedures.
Also, for winter emergencies, we now have fast snowmobiles and hunters don’t even think about their safety and what the weather is going to be like.
I would like to ask if you could coordinate more training to enhance it since there is some funding available.
I appreciate the fact that you discuss these issues with HTOs, but I believe that we need to do more because many people get lost while they are out hunting, especially young people.
We are always sorry to see people getting lost on the land or sea. Even I have lost family members to the sea.
In the past, we didn’t have search and rescue teams in Nunavut. Search and rescue teams are quite new and the emergency measures are quite new. Some communities don’t even have an emergency committee and we will continue to strive to work hard on that.
Also, the people who work under emergency measures work very hard because their priority is to find the individual who is lost.
Our search and rescue teams are very dedicated and these teams in the community are volunteers, who are not paid to conduct SAR missions.
Some of the teams conduct their searches in near zero visibility and we are extremely grateful for their dedication. With respect to their training needs, we will continue to look for more programs and I am being truthful with that remark.
Last year, the SAR training program was delivered in ten different communities, with the teams being trained in various skills. I would like to see more.
As in the past, when snowmobiles were less fuel efficient, they were not able to go as far and the search area would be much smaller. In those days, when they estimated the range of the snowmobile, they would make a grid. Based on the range of the machine being used, that was their search area.
Nowadays, the modern machines are capable of driving long distances on a single tank of gas. Many people have machines that can go from Rankin Inlet to Arviat on a single tank.
That automatically increases the search area as the ranges have dramatically increased and makes it a lot more challenging. It is beneficial to have more efficient machines, but the result is that the search area is correspondingly increased.
In particular, we are setting up a training program that focuses on preparation, especially in asking people to be much more prepared in case they get lost or suffer equipment breakdown, to have the sufficient provisions to survive while the search is being conducted.
That will be the focus in our training. We want to request our hunters to be better prepared as there are now various search methods that can be utilized.
This would be on top of the actual search mission.
Mr. Curley: Thank you. (interpretation) That is good to hear.
As per my previous statement, I am aware of the progression of the search and rescue program, including the committees.
However, one thing I want to reiterate is that the communities should be provided more training, particularly the younger generation. Perhaps for our youth, that training ought to be offered in the high schools so that we can teach them earlier. For the older generations, perhaps we are not as open-minded.
Even though technology exists that we can take advantage of, older people generally don’t utilize the technology. Some younger people could benefit if the training was offered in the high school, such as emergency survival skills.
In cases where people get lost on the land, most people don’t take shelter or go into sheltered areas.
I know from personal experience that shelters can be built in most places. On the tundra, snow is all over the land. The snow may be softer in this area, so it is not the same.
However, in our region, snow is readily available for conversion into a shelter. When people get lost in a blizzard, the tendency is to keep going whereas they ought to be building a shelter to await better conditions.
Due to that reason, I want the department to consider this idea of coordination for this training led by CGS. I wonder if the minister has considered this.
Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): I imagine that would be a good initiative, especially if CGS is the lead department.
However, it is a shared responsibility that should be taught by the parents as well as various Inuit organizations, such as NTI, who negotiated the land claims agreement to further the interest of Inuit in general and to protect Inuit culture, language, and customs. Perhaps that is something that could be a shared program, to have NTI work with the hunters under their programs to teach survival skills as that is part of the Inuit skill set.
We also have regional Inuit organizations that represent Inuit in their regions. I am not scolding them with these remarks. Perhaps this can be a joint initiative shared between our government and the Inuit organizations.
I believe it has to be led by our Inuit organizations as this government doesn’t have the resources to unilaterally take these actions under their wing, particularly matters related to emergency measures. We would be spread too thin if we tried to encompass everything within this area.
I concur with your idea, but we have to try to determine if this is a shared responsibility. As Inuit, we ought to be working with our parents, relatives, elders, NTI, and RIAs, and to cooperate on this type of training to offer our youth.
I am quite glad to hear that response and the public is listening to that idea. Perhaps this is a good initiative to debate because we need to ensure that our youth are protected as we have a number of youth we could teach.
I know for a fact that if an individual learns to build an igloo, then they can be in a shelter in less than an hour.
When you are lost, your first priority has to be shelter and you ought not to stay outside even if the blizzard is not that strong as you can dry your clothing while you wait for the weather to subside.
For that reason, I agree with you that NTI should take part in doing prevention work because we’re losing people who could have been prevented from being lost.
Another matter related to this is some people are getting lost due to their dependence on technology.
However, the new technology can’t smell the lost person. In some cases, the person who is lost will see the snowmobiles close to their location. If they use dog teams, the dogs would have smelled the person and turned towards them.
There are already GPS devices in vehicles that we use. I have seen people wondering if they’re heading north.
Why are we not using them with snowmobiles? Compasses can be installed. People who get lost out there don’t even know which direction they’re at, whether it’s north, south, east, or west.
Perhaps you should try that within your office to have those GPS devices so that more lives can be saved and they’re not too expensive.
Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Perhaps tie a dog to our snowmobile.
Mr. Chairman, this is a very important issue. I know that many all-terrain vehicles now have GPS devices.
GPS devices are already available. Perhaps the manufacturers of snowmobiles are listening, I’m sure that they would be interested in that.
They’re already in the ATVs.
Perhaps it would be astonishing if it’s too expensive, but that one measure would not be too expensive.
When we ask the hunters to use GPS and bring along SPOT devices, volunteers find it hard to do so. Perhaps you can write a letter to them and ask them what they think. I’m sure the manufacturers can help because not too many of this equipment is sold here.
We will be able to consider his request.
Thank you for asking the question in regard to this issue.
My questions are along the same lines as Mr. Curley’s.
As the minister stated a little while ago, as recently as this past weekend, three hunters were successfully rescued from drifting ice in Igloolik. According to the news article, one of the reasons that helped them get rescued successfully is because they had a satellite phone while they were hunting.
In his opening comments, he stated that there were 163 searches for 281 individuals.
How many of the 163 searches were successful because the SPOT or satellite device was used by hunters?
Approximately 25 percent of the searches were because of SPOT activation, of that 163.
How does your department monitor the use of the SPOT device for use in search and rescue?
For those that are owned by the government that have been sent out to the municipalities, I believe there is an activation that goes to our emergency services department, and then it’s gone through that.
In terms of the personal ones, we’re contacted by the individuals who press that SPOT device or their families who call us and say that this went off.
Mr. Rumbolt: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the minister’s opening comments, he stated, “We will continue our efforts to promote the use of SPOT devices and increase awareness of the value of being prepared when going out on the land or water.” What is your department doing to increase the awareness of the importance of using the SPOT device in the communities?
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Rumbolt. Minister Kusugak.
Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I said earlier, we are putting together some advertisements or plans to do an awareness campaign, so we will be working on that.
In the bigger picture, Mr. Chairman, we are at, I must say, a very preliminary stage of taking a look at possibly having the government look at taking care of the activation fees of SPOT devices. I’m not saying it’s going to happen, but we’re looking at that.
There are people out there, Mr. Chairman, who can afford a SPOT device, but they don’t have credit cards or means of paying the annual fees, nor do some people have telephones or cellphones or Internet or a place to get them activated.
So we’re taking a look at the broad picture on this, Mr. Chairman, to see if there is a way that the government could get involved where you buy your own personal device and then if you need the help, the government would help out in terms of the activation, and so on and so forth, the bigger picture on that.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Kusugak. Mr. Rumbolt.
Mr. Rumbolt: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know that these devices come at a cost and like the minister said, some people can afford to buy their own but some people can’t. I’m just wondering if his department has any contact with NTI about, under the Hunter Support Program, if they would be willing to provide SPOT devices to the HTOs so that hunters can buy them at a cheaper cost.
Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Not yet, but only because we’re still at our preliminary planning stage. Once we start to put numbers down and start ironing out some of the issues that may arise, once we get past that, I think it would be a great opportunity for things such as the Hunter Support Program to help in terms of purchasing some of the equipment.
Again, we’re speaking very broadly and there could be opportunities for that. I hope something like that would come in the future.
In terms of our department, we’re still at the preliminary stage in trying to figure out what the costs would be and what kinds of details we would want. You wouldn’t want one number because it would be busy all the time. So there are some things to work out and we’re at that stage.
I hope we could be able to proceed. His idea is one great one and we will take that into account. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Elliott: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the department’s business plan on page 172, the priority for 2011-12 was developing territorial emergency plans. I know, in some of the questions that were asked in the House and some of the updates that the minister gave us, that all of the plans were created across the territory.
It was just a matter of hamlet councils to approve them. I’m wondering if he could give us an update as to whether all hamlet councils have approved the plans across the territory.
Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have approved 18 and hope to have the rest, if not most of the rest, by the end of the week. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Elliott: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for that answer. Next, in terms of fire protection and employment in the fire marshal’s office, my understanding is there are three positions across the territory.
I was wondering if the minister could correct me on whether there are three positions, if those positions are filled and, if they’re not, how long they have been vacant.
Hon. Lorne Kusugak: If I could have Kathleen answer the details on that in terms of the positions and vacancies.
There are actually eight positions within the fire marshal’s office and they are in varying communities throughout Nunavut. Four positions are filled right now and four are vacant. We’ve got a contractor, I think, fulfilling one of those position duties as well.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Ms. Lausman. (interpretation end) For the record, I did recognize you.
In this year’s priorities for 2012-13 on page 173 of the business plan, it talks about the draft policy and standard operating procedures relating to emergency measures and the Fire Prevention Act.
I’m just wondering: in terms of the standard operating procedures in dealing with fire prevention, is that how, if there is an emergency, the situation is taken care of or what does that entail?
Is this a review of policies that were already there or are these new policies and we’ve never had standard operating procedures before?
Could I have, through you Mr. Chairman, Ms. Lausman respond to the details?
We keep updating and revising standard operating procedures for many reasons. We’ve got changes going on within the territory.
We’ve just simply drafted new emergency management plans and it’s important that folks know how to practise and know how to respond in the case different types of emergencies.
It’s important that we have those standard operating procedures updated so that we’ve got people current, knowing who to contact, how, where, and what to do.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Ms. Lausman. (interpretation ends) For the record, I wanted to recognize you, but there were technical difficulties.
Mr. Elliott: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In terms of search and rescue, I think we provide training to all of the… . I guess we provide services to them as well.
Some of the members had mentioned the SPOT devices and whatnot. I’m just wondering: in terms of what seems to be going on and the number of searches that seem to be increasing, is there going to be more education within the school system possibly? I think Mr. Curley was alluding to that.
Times are changing and the ice is changing.
I’m wondering if being more proactive and making more awareness for people when they are going out on the land to prepare properly so that an accident or a search is not needed, whether that would be more cost effective than just doing the search once someone is actually out and lost.
Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the question.
We do have training out there for our search and rescue volunteers.
I believe there’s like $250,000 that’s admitted through the Municipal Training Organization.
In terms of training and more of a public awareness program, we are working on those things. We would like to be able to deliver them to as young as they can get, I guess.
Prevention is key. We spend a lot of money on searching for people.
If we can put a bit more money in terms of public awareness, then we would save lives that way too.
Yes, we want to put a campaign out there to decrease the number of searches that have to be conducted.
Last year, a number of countries went together to work with Canada, the federal government, in terms of working on protocol for search and rescue. It was signed, in terms of jointly, how different countries would work together.
I’m wondering if we could get an update from the minister on what our role is as a territory in Nunavut. We have a lot of coastal waters and a constant debate or fight between internal and external waters. I’m wondering how your department is working with the federal government to work with that new protocol that has been put in place.
That’s way above us. That’s being dealt with by the federal government and through the Arctic Council.
If anything, we have observer status on that, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Kusugak. (interpretation ends) Moving on. Mr. Oshutapik.
I would like to make a comment on this page.
Having been involved myself, I have a particular feeling about what the local search and rescue needs are.
There are different policies that we have to adhere to in Nunavut, depending on our individual needs.
We haven’t been told to become searchers and rescuers, but we do so as volunteers.
Search and rescue operations in Nunavut, especially in Pangnirtung, usually supply their own snowmobiles in the winters.
During the summer, they use their own boats.
I believe this is the same everywhere else.
I believe that because they’re not provided with equipment, this limits their capabilities.
Any equipment they provide themselves are never replaced either.
There are usually not any monies provided for equipment for search and rescue organizations in Nunavut.
What equipment is provided to us is not intended for local use.
The six- or eight-wheeled all-terrain vehicles are unused in our community.
One would have thought that communities would be given those vehicles based on the characteristics of each community.
We are told that we have to use this certain equipment, an all-terrain vehicle. Once we have completed the use of it, it’s moved to another community.
This thing weighs about 700 to 900 lbs. That was information I just wanted to pass on.
As a searcher, I have used the search and rescue devices as they came out and we have become accustomed to operating them. Of these, there are quite a number that are unusable just because many volunteers don’t know the English language. They can be used only by those who know English.
I have asked for training programs to be provided so that I can provide the training myself. I have written proposals on more than one occasion to access some funds to set up training programs for hunters or search and rescue volunteers. I would like to see a training program by your department so that anyone who requires those devices will be able to use them.