EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
We also attend NHRC and CHRA meetings. We are also working with the Northwest Territories and Yukon in developing a tri-territorial submission that will outline a business case unique to the north.
I appreciate those three seconds. I probably used them up just saying that.
Last year, I had also brought up the topic on utility savings. We still see a number of instances where people aren’t directly responsible for the energy costs. I’m not saying it’s not appreciated, but maybe it’s not recognized.
I brought up the topic of maybe putting out some type of notice or almost a pseudo bill type of thing. I can’t remember the exact wording that I used last year.
At that time, Ms. Kimball had responded that there is software in place to track the usage per household, but they don’t have the ability to produce a statement format of what I was looking at.
It’s something that has been identified that NHC wants to do and you have identified the IT strategy to get there.
I would like an update on the progress of that process.
If you don’t mind, I think Ms. Kimball would love to update the House on Mr. Hickes’ question.
Unfortunately, from an IT standpoint, we haven’t made a whole lot of progress on that.
We are trying to address that in terms of addressing our overall system needs. We are still very much a manual system organization and we recognize that that’s got a number of risks with it, especially with our aging stock.
We are looking at a full solution that will incorporate this as well. There is a lot involved to a procurement process for that and that’s something that we’re working on.
In the meantime, though, in the short term, we are trying to look at ways in terms of getting tenant engagement and motivation for tenants and figuring out once we do get that, how can we motivate tenants to reduce it.
I thank Ms. Kimball for that response. She kind of answered part of my next question here.
Now, you may not have the software to track per unit right now, and I know you’ve had an energy savings campaign in the past year with calendars and different advertising things.
Last year, I also brought up a question of a question.
Is there any type of incentive program that could be offered to our tenants? Even though we don’t know the usage per unit right now, if there is just an overarching, some type of an incentive program to push residents of public housing to be more energy efficient in their day-to-day lives.
I would like Ms. Kimball to continue responding to that line of questioning. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
Yes, those are things that we are looking at, trying to develop ways to provide those incentives. That is something that we are currently looking at.
At this time, I would like to ask a question regarding something that is not in the business plan, yet it is in the business plan for the Department of Economic Development.
It talks about a pay-for-power program where the Energy Secretariat staff has worked closely with the Nunavut Housing Corporation on a number of actions, including working towards a pay-for-power program for public housing tenants, a tenant energy conservation program, and energy-efficient retrofits.
Maybe if the minister could explain the objective, scope, and terms of reference for the pay-for-power program and why it’s not included in NHC’s business plan.
Minister Kuksuk. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
With respect to that question, unfortunately, I haven’t been briefed on the issue as to how it would play out. Nonetheless, Mr. Brown manages this file.
Mr. Chairman, with your permission, he can respond in detail to the member’s question. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
Chairman: Mr. Brown.
Mr. Brown: Thank you.
The pay-for-power program, as it has been explained to me in dealing with my colleagues at the Department of EDT and the Energy Secretariat, is basically putting together a number of separate initiatives that we are working on together.
Some of it is trying to look at energy audits that we just heard about in the news.
Others are working on quantifying our utility usage and getting some tracking metrics in place for that, and then others are with regard to a tenant engagement program and how can we reduce our overall energy consumption that way.
From our perspective, we have been looking at it in terms of our collaboration on all of those issues. From what I understand, my colleagues at EDT are linking it together in terms of justifying their lines of work.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Brown.
For the sake of the technicians, when you’re done, acknowledge the Chair so that they can turn it over to me.
I appreciate the opportunity to directly include Mr. Brown in these proceedings.
With regard to the pay-for-power program when you’re talking about identifying metrics and tracking data, and then just previously Ms. Kimball mentioned that there is a gap obviously in the IT component of being able to get that data, is there a potential for a link with the Energy Secretariat to assist them in their data collection by working with NHC to provide the necessary IT resources?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. If you don’t mind, Ms. Kimball would like to respond to that. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you. (interpretation ends) Apparently Ms. Kimball, you really want to answer this question. Your chance.
Ms. Kimball: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, we can definitely do some data sharing.
We do have information at the unit level, so we can actually export that for analysis. What we have the challenge in IT is translating that into a statement that can be delivered to clients. On the overall, we do have the data, though, that can be analyzed with the Energy Secretariat.
I really look forward to seeing some further work on that. I think that would be a fantastic initiative to help alleviate and put more dollars back in the housing corporation to use for new housing stock.
I would like to touch on the arrears. I am happy to see the increase in collecting arrears, but at the same time, if I go back to May of 2013, the arrears were $18.5 million. Today, in the minister’s opening comments, they are at $25 million.
Even with the great efforts being made to collect, it’s a growing and growing number. Are there any other actions that NHC can do to collect these arrears? That’s 60 units that could be on the ground right now.
Yes, the level of arrears is disconcerting, which is obvious because the levels are not decreasing visibly.
However, the other tool in use now is called the (interpretation ends) collections project (interpretation) and the other name is the (interpretation ends) collection agency pilot project. (interpretation) Once these pilot projects were commenced, we saw a decrease in the amount of arrears.
That is as much as I can respond with at this time. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
I’ll move on from that one.
Maybe somebody else might pick it up a little bit more.
I’m just going back to last year’s Committee of the Whole. One of the responses intrigued me at the time and then I followed up with it a little bit.
There was a response where NHC is looking at supporting elder living facilities and supporting elders. It even talks of assisted living.
If the members will indulge me, I’ll do a quick quote. In one of the responses, it said, “At the same time, we are looking at existing dwellings that we have in our public [housing] stock. For instance, if we have a five-plex that might be suitable to have a care provider and, [say], four residents in a five-plex.
We are exploring and having discussions…at the very preliminary stage…with the Department of Health.” Maybe if the minister could update me on how those discussions have proceeded over the past year.
That is an excellent question. We will work with the departments of Health and Education on how to allocate units to the elders and converting the unused units (interpretation ends) or unused public housing into supportive living and dementia care facilities. (interpretation) Yes, the Department of Health is leading this initiative along with our department.
I realize that you guys had started looking into it, but how has it progressed over the past year?
With respect to those discussions, the Department of Health leads the planning process and we are collaborating on the plans, but nothing concrete has been developed to this point.
I guess I’ll leave that one alone for now as well.
One of the things that, since I started campaigning, I have talked of a housing continuum where some of our adult youth get into an independent living system.
Now, I know it’s very difficult with our overcrowded situation where we can have two, three, or potentially four generations living in a household right now.
One of the things that I have always envisioned of being able to have, whether it be apartment living or one-bedroom or bachelor suites, where our adult youth can move into to gain some independence, start learning some life skills, becoming more self-sufficient, then moving on through their own partnering up or moving up in their own lifecycle of families and children, even up into private homeownership opportunities.
I know this is something that Housing has been looking at for a number of years.
I would just like to get the minister’s thoughts on how this is progressing and what concrete actions are taking place so that we can start having our youth living independently and learning these life skills at an earlier stage than moving out on their own through overcrowding, already having a family, but not really having had the opportunity to learn how to maintain a household.
Regarding the issues Mr. Hickes raised in his question about smaller housing units or single or bachelor units, it hasn’t been studied to see if the costs would be offset by what Mr. Hickes recommended, but it would have to go through the government in terms of the assistance required to do that.
Currently, we are looking into the cost analysis for a one-bedroom unit. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
Chairman: Qujannamiik, Hon. Minister. (interpretation) Mr. Hickes, you have run out of time.
I will be able to recognize you later on. I still have names on my list.
Some of the topics were already covered, but I would just like to dig into them a little more.
Mr. Hickes was just talking about the rental arrears of $25 million.
In the minister’s opening statement, it states that the collection rate has increased from 80 to 90 percent.
I’ll ask the minister: are the arrears going down?
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Savikataaq. Minister Kuksuk.
Approximately 10 percent is dedicated towards arrears. How can I say the right term? I can’t remember the Inuktitut meaning for the (interpretation ends) collection rate, (interpretation) which has risen by about 10 percent.
That is what I was trying to state here.  With respect to the question of whether the arrears amount is dropping and in looking at Mr. Savikataaq’s figures (interpretation ends) from $18 million to $25 million, (interpretation) the amount change probably doesn’t make sense with the figure seemingly increasing, but Ms. Kimball can explain why that is the case.
Mr. Chairman, if you can allow Ms. Kimball to answer Mr. Savikataaq’s question.
If you look at a collection rate of 89 percent, it basically means there’s still another 11 percent out there that is not being collected of every annual amount and that’s going to continue to grow until we get over 100 percent collection, which we way never achieve.
One of the things we’re doing right now and part of why the arrears are going up, a couple of reasons are that we increased the housing stock by almost 1,000 units, so we’re assessing a lot more rent than we were before. That additional rent assessment is going to have additional rental arrears. The fact that we’re collecting 10 percent than we were in prior years is a huge accomplishment.
We’ve got a backlog of older arrears that we now need to work through and figure out how much of that can be collected and how much can’t be collected. As we address the ones that can’t be collected, then that will come off that number.
We haven’t done any of that yet. We wanted to make sure we take a thorough look and collect as much of it as can be collected before we start writing off any amount.
I know that LHOs are responsible for collecting of rent.
For the ones that are owed a huge amount of arrears in rent, does that impact their budgets or their operational requirements?
Hon. George Kuksuk: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, it does.
Just for a simple example, if a local housing association has $1 million in arrears, the housing corporation would give them $1 million less, then, in the budget because that’s the $1 million that they could have or should have come up with?
That’s just a figure I come up with, but you could put any number in there you want.
Are they given, as part of their funding, however much their arrears are, that much less in their budgeting?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): I didn’t quite understand his question unfortunately, but I believe Ms. Kimball understood the question as to how that process is run. If I answered, it would be confusing. Ms. Kimball can answer that question, if you don’t mind, (interpretation ends) Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Kimball, I believe you wanted to respond.
The funding formula is a little bit complicated, but basically, if you anticipate that they need… . I’m just going to use round figures. If we’re saying they need $2 million to operate for their admin. and maintenance, then we estimate what we think they’re going to have for assessments.
They give us their actual assessments and we expect them to collect that less 3 percent. We allow 3 percent as bad debt and if they collect less than that, then it does impact their finances in the current year. It doesn’t affect their budgeting.
It affects their actual results in terms of surplus. It doesn’t affect future year budgeting.
Mr. Savikataaq: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank Ms. Kimball for clarifying that to the viewing public.
Another topic that was brought up by one of my counterparts was the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s RFP for the interdepartmental coordination and production of the Government of Nunavut Housing Action Plan. It’s quite a mouthful. You requested an RFP and you have said that you’ve got it.
My question is just: why are you going to an outside source when, I believe, you have all the accountants, all the trade experts, all the lawyers, and every kind of professional person that you need? Was there something that you could not do in-house?
With respect to that question, we don’t deal with this singularly as the department. We have different departments outside of NHC involved, such as CG&S, Environment, and others that are involved in the (interpretation ends) facilitation (interpretation) process.
We have to work together on this issue, as we can’t implement the plan by ourselves. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
Mr. Savikataaq: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the minister for admitting that they have capacity issues.
I will go on to another thing related to LHOs still.
A few days ago, the minister tabled a master management plan between the LHOs and the Nunavut Housing Corporation and I noticed that the date on the bottom was 2006. Is that the original template or has it been updated or any plans to update it?
Things change quite a bit in nine years.
I know the context or the core areas would stay the same, but other stuff might change. I would just like clarification whether this has never been updated since 2006.
Yes, the 2006 management plan was the last time it was updated. To date, we have started developing plans to commence work (interpretation ends) for a new update.
The minister said it’s going to be looked at for an update.
Can he gives a timeline on when we might be able to see an updated copy tabled in the House?
Perhaps we can state that it won’t happen in 2015 and the likelihood is that it will be completed by the year 2016. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
Going on to different matters here, in the opening statement, you are getting 21 new positions to better fulfill your mandate. Going through the organizational review summary report, one of the PYs, or person years, is for Inuit language, Inuit societal values, and Inuit Qaujimajatuqanga, one position.
Can the minister just explain the role of IQ and societal values in terms of building houses?
This is an internal government initiative dealing with IQ and it was brought up in the House earlier, as my colleague recalls.
The different departments within our government have had to start incorporating IQ into operations and each department is provided with a PY to deal specifically with IQ as it applies to each departmental mandate.
(interpretation ends) Right off my head, (interpretation) as to who would lead this initiative within NHC and as to the dates of implementing them, I can’t recall them.
However, issues such as (interpretation ends) language (interpretation) and using Inuktitut as a working language has to be dealt with by the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
With respect to IQ becoming part of each department, it has been left to them to implement certain areas, such as (interpretation ends) language (interpretation) or to use the Inuit writing system or language.
That would part of the IQ areas implemented within the housing corporation. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
I thank the minister for the explanation.
Still under these positions, there is an additional position for a homeownership program coordinator.
I believe there has been one position since 1999, since Nunavut, and now we have one more. There will be two positions working on the homeownership program.
If I understood the question, it will be a (interpretation ends) centralized (interpretation) position. I can’t recall the Inuktitut word right now.
Mr. Chairman, within the (interpretation ends) homeownership application (interpretation) position, it will be a (interpretation ends) centralized (interpretation) position with one PY handling the homeownership applications throughout the territory. (interpretation ends) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I guess I didn’t make myself clear. Currently, there is a homeownership program coordinator and this one more position is being created as a homeownership program coordinator.
If it’s okay with you, I will refer this question to Ms. Kimball.
It’s okay with me.
Currently, in Arviat, we have a homeownership program manager and a homeownership program analyst.
This is creating a brand-new homeownership program coordinator.
In the past, we had a casual filling a position over there. Now we are actually making it a full-time position.
As part of that, we are going to be centralizing our processing, which will alleviate some of the burden from our district offices so that they can focus on providing more supports for the LHO.
As the minister and his staff know, I am a great proponent of homeownership programs.
I hope this means that there will actually be programs coming out now because right now, the only program that is available to get an existing building, I believe, is the down-payment assistance.
There is no way of physically getting a house. It’s just down-payment assistance.
Am I correct to say that now that there are more people working on it, we might actually get a homeownership program?
What the member referred to are the types of issues we have to consider as part of the review. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
I am glad they will look into that because we do need some kind of home assistance program. In the past, we had the access program, the HAP program, where people physically got a house.
I know Ms. Kimball has stated in the past that the clientele might be small, but it has been a while, so maybe the clientele might have picked up a bit. We need to get people into their own houses in Nunavut. I’m sure there are some now that are capable of operating a house now.
While we’re on that, I know we have talked about it in the past, but it is homeownership qualification, I guess, or eligibility.
What is the current maximum household income to qualify for homeownership programs?
This is for various communities as every community faces different challenges, as an example, Arviat. The figure listed here is $158,500 for the household income cap in Arviat.
The $158,500 is the upper limit for Arviat.
If you look at each community, these caps are different. I was just using Arviat as the example for this question. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
Staying on with housing, I don’t know if this would fit under homeownership programs or not, but right now, from the documents we have been given, a public housing house is costing the Nunavut Housing Corporation roughly $25,000 a year to operate it.
Staff housing, I think, was $18,000 a year to operate it.
Is there any consideration being given to give a subsidy to anyone who wants to rent a house or buy a house to take the pressure off public housing?
I’m not saying it should be $25,000, but maybe if anyone who could rent a house from anywhere was given a subsidy of, let’s say, $1,000 a month, which would be $12,000 a year, which is half the cost of public housing, maybe someone in the community would be able to build private housing to rent out, creating more houses without the government expending lots on capital.
If the minister understands where I’m trying to get to, can he please answer that?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Just briefly, Mr. Chairman, his question includes numerous possibilities or (interpretation ends) options (interpretation) that would have to be looked into, although we have done some initial work on this. However, with respect to his question, we don’t have an actual written document on those ideas. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
Mr. Savikataaq: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I understood correctly, the minister said that his department is looking at options. This is one of the options that they might be looking at in the whole housing strategy.
Hon. George Kuksuk: Yes, (interpretation) we have included it in the list to be part of the overall comprehensive review. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
This is just going to be a comment saying that we have to look at ways of getting the people of Nunavut into their own houses so that they can pay, the ones who can afford it, to be in that house.
As the minister is well aware, we will never house all the people in Nunavut with public housing.
The money is not there to build the houses. The money is not there to maintain the houses.
We have to help people of Nunavut in getting into affordable housing, not public housing, but affordable housing that they will own, operate, and be proud to live in.
I believe we are on page N-IV-2. Thank you. My first question relates to the section listing other expenses, as this figure has increased.
What is the reason for the increase?
In looking at the member’s question, if it was on that page, I think it may be under (interpretation ends) N-IV-2. (interpretation) I don’t see it. Perhaps it is on the next page.
I apologize because I got confused about the page the member is on.
Mr. Chairman, maybe he can reiterate his question.
Chairman (Mr. Akoak): We are at N-IV-2.
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Yes, I apologize.
That was unfortunate, but I just found the reference the member asked about.
This question relates to the increased amount in this line item. The increase is approximately $47,000 and the reasoning for the increase is due to IT, or information technology, price increases. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
Some of my colleagues raised the issues I want to query the minister about.
Regardless of that development, I want to ask about arrears and collection of debt.
With this pilot project you have initiated towards this arrears collection project from tenants, can you identify the communities where this pilot project has begun?