EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
(interpretation) I do know that the Housing Corporation staff work extremely hard to make sure that houses are completed and to make sure that they have ordered enough supplies so that they can complete their projects.
I have seen on more than one occasion companies breaching the contract.
Thank you, Minister Akesuk, and Mr. Chairman.
We always look for solutions and how we can save money when we’re building a house so we’re using less money.
There’s more and more Nunavummiut who are looking at owning their homes. Most of the employees are looking at how they can build their own houses, for example, using the Access Program. Those houses are being built by contractors, which is really expensive.
There was a HAP House Program where the government bought the material and the homeowner would build his house. Sometimes it takes two years to build your own house. The HAP Program was excellent because the government only paid for the materials and nothing else.
A lot of people became homeowners through that program so we would like to urge the government and see if they can bring that program back.
If you’re building public housing the local housing authorities end up using a lot of money for operations and maintenance. Here in Iqaluit, especially, there are a lot of people from outside of Nunavut who’ll own homes and take on the contracts that could be taken by the local businesses.
With the HAP House Program, if you lived in that house for ten years you could sell it without a penalty. So I think we should look at that program. Look at the pros and cons of it.
For example if an elder wanted to sell his house the government could set up a revolving fund so that they can pay for a portion of that house. There’s a fuel tax rebate that was introduced by the government. If an elder wants to sell the house I think the government should get half of it back because, of course they ordered the materials.
I think the government is going to be losing more money if they don’t look at other solutions. We’re going to be getting some money from the federal government to build more housing.
So I think we should look at other ideas and see where we can save and where can increase the number of private homeowners.
We are on general comments. I have no more names on my list.
(interpretation ends) We will now proceed with the page-by-page review of the departmental estimates starting with page L-6. Nunavut Housing Corporation.
I don’t want to disappoint the minister, or his officials. I had indicated in my general comments that I have some questions on some specific areas.
I know I had an opportunity to tour one of the loading facilities in Montreal, in Valleyfield, this summer, and the guy showed a very high pile of plywood.
I said, “Look at all that good pile, it’s going to get used to cover up that other good plywood for crating” and then he indicated that that was one of the shipping requirements for the Housing Corporation in their contract.  I’m just wondering, it’s expensive...there’s an indication that some dollars could be saved if they looked at containerizing some materials where they could, instead of crating it all.
I’m just wondering if the minister or his officials could give us any indication of whether they have taken any steps in that direction in looking at reducing the cost on that end of things for shipping and preparing of goods to be shipped up to the various communities?
In the next fiscal year, we will be using the containers when we are delivering materials for units.
One of the other things that was pointed out is they also had, I think it’s three or four people there with stencils and paint painting the crates that were...again, that was a requirement under the contract for the Housing Corporation.
The information that they are painting on, stencilling, is apparently the same information that’s put on a sticker or something that’s attached already to the crates.
So I’m just wondering...and they say, “We have no problem doing that.” But why are you doing it, because that’s the same information and there’s more information on the sticker like these ones right here on our thing telling us what language to listen to on what channel. We don’t mind doing it, but it’s an added cost.
So I’m just wondering if they have looked at that as well as a requirement, or looking at their contract documents or tender, or whatever it is that outlines, specifically, what’s required under that.
Yes, we will look into that. We will look at how we could save costs and we will review it.
We’re on page L-6.
I think that’s important if we could find ways to save money.
The government, as a whole, is looking at finding savings in some places and I think it’s important that the more dollars we can have directly for housing, instead of other related costs, it would help us go further in our housing delivery dilemma that we’re in up here.
Going specifically to L-6, I note that there is $2.5 million there for new staff housing. I’m just wondering if we could get an indication from the minister or his officials where those staff housing units are going to be located.
As I stated that in my opening remarks, for Repulse Bay, Kugaaruk, Kimmirut, and Resolute Bay, those communities are already listed that this $2.5 million would be used for.
Is that going to be for the construction of new staff units or purchasing existing units.
I want to get an explanation as to what is happening there.
Those are renovating older units in the up coming year for the three smaller communities because there are quite a few communities that have been requesting staff housing units. As I mentioned before, these units will be new for the communities that you have mentioned.
Are they going to build them and own them?
Is the local housing association going to build for the Corporation? Is that how it is being handled?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The contactors, I am not sure who is going to own them, but the Government of Nunavut will own these units.
The other question that I have in there is a half million dollars for staff housing M&I retrofits. Are those on Government of Nunavut owned houses, or are those leased units?
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Tootoo. Minister Akesuk.
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): The renovations retrofit Government of Nunavut units. Retrofit for Government of Nunavut units.
(interpretation ends) Nunavut Housing Corporation. Grants and Contributions.
Welcome Mr. Minister and his officials to our session here today.
I want to get an update from the minister. He has heard me the last couple of days talking about staff housing for the Health Facility in Cambridge Bay and as we heard from the Minister, Health and Social Services has a requirement for 20 to 25 houses for the staff, but I don’t see anywhere in your Capital Estimates where you are planning to build any houses for Cambridge Bay to support the Health Facility.
Can I get an update as to what is happening here?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): Thank you. The funding for capital, the resources for the government are very limited and we have very limited funding for staff housing. So we’ve been looking at how we can proceed with this.
There are three regional hospitals that were recently constructed and they all need staff so we are working on this process up to now and I know we are looking at ways on how we can resolve the staff housing situation.
Can the minister give us a brief overview how the Nunavut Housing Corporation works together with other departments to support their housing needs when they are in a process of developing major projects or even to meet the current housing needs for employees; staff housing.
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We work with all the departments closely.
We have to construct many units for Nunavut staff housing units to make sure we house our staff properly, so we work closely with the government departments how we can deal with the staff housing units, so that they can be housed properly.
I realize what the minister, he says he works closely with the other departments, but can he give me an indication of the process that you have in place that allows you to work closely? I wonder, you say you have no money, the departments say they need housing; Human Resources can’t staff the positions because there’s no housing.
How do you work together closely with the other government departments?
There are many units that we work on. We work with the other departments and our officials try to work with the officials from the other departments.
In regard to staff housing, whether it’s the Department of Health and Social Services or Department of Education, we have to constantly work closely with them on the staff housing units and the committee works on this.
Perhaps I could come at it a different way. As the minister’s known for many, many years, the health facility in Cambridge Bay required 20 to 25 houses, but I see, you know that’s a priority.
We have a $20 million facility that’s 50 percent operational, and it doesn’t look like it’ll be operational, 100 percent operational, for years to come, unless there’s housing provided for the hired doctors and nurses.
We see that you have provided for staff housing a new supply, 10 houses, in other communities; Repulse, Kugaaruk, Kimmirut, and Resolute.
How did you determine that you needed new housing units in those communities as opposed to a community like Cambridge Bay or elsewhere where there’s a large health facility that needs housing for the health professionals that they have to hire?
Mr. Scott, after I make a response, will respond.
We’ve never constructed any units in the smaller communities for a long time.
The teachers, and other staff who work for the government need staff housing, and they lack staff housing in those communities I have mentioned.
So with that in mind we decided to construct these units in those communities.
I will allow Mr. Scott to further elaborate on that.
In response to the member’s question, when the capital plans were being set for what we’re looking at today, was started off back in the summertime.
We looked at two initiatives going on. One was developing the capital plan and identifying where our staff housing crisis areas were and secondly we had a request for proposals out looking for additional staff housing units in the three centres where the hospital in Iqaluit and the two health centres were being built or being finished.
The anticipation was that the RFP would identify additional supply that we could lease from land-owners and from the private sector, and then the focus of new construction, the new capital dollars into primarily the non-decentralized communities where there is a high demand for staff housing.
So that’s essentially how it was decided that most of the new construction, the new units would go into smaller communities such as Repulse Bay.
We also have duplexes on the ground ready to be built in Chesterfield Inlet and Whale Cove as well for staff housing.
Also in response to part of Mr. Peterson’s question on how we work with other departments. There is a requirement in the capital planning process that when departments put forward new infrastructure requests in that there is a requirement to identify the housing need that’s created by the new infrastructure and incorporate that into the plan.
This is a fairly new requirement. I think over the last year or so that all departments are working together on identifying the new demands for staff housing.
At the same time we have four allocation committees that meet on a weekly basis to discuss housing demands and allocate staff housing units, and accept applications for staff housing; there’s one in Iqaluit, and one in Cape Dorset for the Baffin region; there is a committee in the Kivalliq, and in Cambridge Bay.
That’s made up of the core departments; there’s Justice, Health, Education, Human Resources, and the Housing Corporation.
So that committee is our primary method of working with the departments that have the greatest demand for housing.
That’s essentially how we work together.
I thank the minister and Mr. Scott for that answer.
As you can appreciate, when you have a $20 million facility in a community and it can’t be made a 100 percent operational, essentially, it boils down to; at least that’s what I’m being told that, they don’t have housing.
We have to look at ways to address the housing.
I am wondering, you mentioned a request for proposals for the three regional centres, to address housing for those facilities.
Can you give us an overview of how you wrote the RFPs, and what was the intention? Was it a fishing expedition or were you sincere that you really wanted contractors, developers, or landlords of those communities to apply to Housing Corporation proposals, because you indicated in Cambridge Bay only one developer replied.
That must be telling you something; you must have sat down and talked about it.
What happened in Cambridge Bay where people didn’t come forward with proposals?
It’s kind of a technical question, so I will get Mr. Scott to respond to the question.
Mr. Scott: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In response to Mr. Peterson’s question we definitely certainly were sincere in the development of the RFP that went out last summer.
It closed near the end of August. The intent was there were actually three parts that any developer could apply to. One is existing units that were on the ground, ready to be occupied; they could put in proposals for that.
They could put in proposals for units that could be brought in on the 2007 sealift, and built. We would have looked at those as future potential. Also we had an option there - a purchase option, as well.
We got a combination of the first and third component of that but as a result of the RFP we didn’t one response, as part of that RFP for future development because it left an opening there for the Housing Corporation to provide the financial commitments the developer would need to bring in materials this coming summer and to build.
The developers were non-responsive in that area.
I thank the minister and Mr. Scott.
That was in August and we are now in November. What have you done in the interim to address housing for the health centre in Cambridge Bay?
I’ve been giving the Minister of Health a hard time in meetings in the House here. When is the facility going to be opened?
The reason why I ask these questions is because we can’t continue to have a health facility remain at 50 percent capacity.
The Government of Nunavut has a Closer to Home heath strategy. Yet we continue to have to send people to Yellowknife and then to Edmonton from the Kitikmeot when in fact the intention was to have them come to Cambridge Bay to be treated, obviously not for the most serious medical emergencies, but certainly the ones that can be treated closer to home.
If we never get any housing we are never going to have that facility fully operational so we are going to be chasing around in circles for years to come unless we address the housing. I am trying to get a sense on how the Nunavut Housing Corporation is going to deal with the situation in Cambridge Bay.
Can the minister respond please?
The three health facilities that were built in the Kivalliq region in Rankin Inlet and Cambridge Bay, I know that we are going to work very hard to be able to staff them 100 percent.
The staff housing that is available out there right now is not adequate and we would like to make that better. Because of the lack of funding of houses, we can not build all those facilities.
Whether they be teachers, or nurses, or doctors, we are trying our very best to accommodate them to have housing so those health facilities could run properly. I think we are going to have to sit down and find out how we can deal the shortage of staff housing in these communities whether they’d be for the nurses and the doctors.
I thank the minister for a response.
Perhaps if I could ask Mr. Scott this question because he touched on it in the RFP. What type of financing or other alternatives did you offer the developers?
I know if a developer wants to get bank financing, they are probably looking at 10 years. The banks require a 10-year lease for the banks to even to think about it. Is that something that was offered to the RFP?
Mr. President, Mr. Scott.
A couple of things I guess in response: any proposals submitted by a developer if there is a requirement for the bank financing for that project to have at least 50 percent of the units having commitment on those.
And if we made that commitment, then that would resolve one of the issues the developers have in getting financing.
So that was on, that would have been on the table. We were looking at making the commitments at the time.
The second part of Mr. Peterson’s question, I’m trying to remember what it was and I’ll let him repeat the question because it probably didn’t satisfy him.
Mr. Scott’s starting to sound like one of our colleagues across the floor there, when they ask us to repeat, see if we remember what we asked.
I wanted to know what other financing alternatives you offered in the RFP. There’s the bank financing and the 50 percent commitment, what other alternatives were available to developers?
The other part of the question was what kinds of terms the leases were. In Cambridge Bay in particular, because it’s the government’s staff housing policy that we have, we will be getting out of staff housing in Cambridge Bay over the next nine years, the maximum term of any leases that were being offered were for nine years.
In Iqaluit it would be four years, nine years in Rankin Inlet. We didn’t offer in the RFP any financial incentives or bonuses it was up to the proponents to make those proposals in their proposal response.
I thank Mr. Scott.
Well, that brings me to my next question. There was one developer that did submit a proposal and he has been in touch with the Nunavut Housing Corporation for a couple years now.
They have that three-plex in Cambridge Bay or triplex.
I’m not sure what the issue is there, but it has been vacant, they have approached the Government of Nunavut. I recall a couple years ago the Premier, myself, the Minister of Health had a tour of the facility and they have been trying to lease with the government, I think they may be trying to sell it to the government now. You mentioned that an RFP came out.
All those years before the RFP, they were contacting you folks and then they respond to the RFP, it doesn’t look very hopeful at this point, that the government is receptive to leasing or buying it so I’m trying to get a sense, you’re looking for space, housing in Cambridge Bay.
The developer has some brand new housing. They responded to the RFP and yet you’re saying you still don’t have housing; you haven’t bought it or leased it. Can I get an update on how that’s been going?
We’re going to be working with QC to have an agreement between us and them in regard to housing and we will be talking with them and we will be negotiating with them with that particular house that you’re talking about.
Can the minister clarify, you said QC, I think I heard QC not, can he clarify what he meant?
Sorry about that, Mr. Peterson, if I said QC its KC. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I thank the minister for clarifying that, you know there are a lot of acronyms flowing around the House in the last couple of weeks.
QC means one thing to me, there is a QC; it’s in Iqaluit.
Can you give me an update then? You indicated the RFP wasn’t very successful. You had one proponent who developed a reply; what are the next steps in addressing housing in Cambridge Bay for the health facility?
Maybe the government will have to look further if they will have to build more staff housing in Cambridge Bay.
We’re in the end of November; December starts tomorrow.
Shipping season is coming up. Would it be your intention to perhaps review the RFP again and put it out in the papers and send it to the developers in Cambridge Bay to enable them to get a second chance to respond in time for the financing of barge season next summer?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We’re going through our capital estimates for 2007-08.
We would do our very best to recognize where we could improve delivering staff housing units in Cambridge Bay or anywhere in the territory.
Once we go through this capital estimates, I think that we will have find a way of how we could deal with trying to ship other buildings to the territory, and finding money to deliver those.
I was hoping to hear a bit more positive response from the minister. It sounds to me that if he doesn’t get housing for the health centre next year, then the facility could be vacant for another fiscal year beyond 2007-08.
I’m not sure how the…perhaps Mr. Scott can explain this. If the developers respond to an RFP and you lease the facility or the buildings off them, you’re not buying materials, it’s a lease; a financial commitment.
How would that fall under the capital planning process?
If we were to do that, we would have to come through a supplementary appropriation to come up with more money.
Mr. Peterson, your time is up.
I will go back to the list.
Mr. Arvaluk: We should go watch them racing.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation) The questions that I want to pose...I think we already know that when the HAP Housing Program was on, the government didn’t spend as much.
Yes, they might spend a large amount at first, but in the long run, for O&M and such, they don’t spend that much.
Has the government considered reintroducing the HAP Program, especially to the smaller communities where there’s not a housing market, or even if they were sold, then half of it would go to the Revolving Fund.
We have changed the name to the Material Assistance Program and we requested 10 for Nunavut during the shipping season.
The Housing Corporation buys the units and those who had been approved would build houses and the owner would have to own the unit for at least ten years.
They are now called MAP houses.
Mr. Arvaluk (interpretation): Then do I understand correctly that if they get approval from the bank then they would have to buy it from the government?
Do they know exactly how much it is?
Sorry that I didn’t make myself clear, Mr. Arvaluk.
The units, we would hand them to the approved applicant and that person would have to ask for a loan from the bank, then they wouldn’t have to pay for the material.
So if that individual wanted to build a unit because the Inuit are very capable and the HAP houses are one of the best built units, because they were built, maybe, in the span of two years.
If they wanted to build their unit personally, without going through the bank, are they allowed to build them themselves?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): Thank you. We haven’t gone through that route, but we definitely can look into that if we want to improve it in the future but we don’t have it like that at this time.
Mr. Arvaluk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It’s not planned that way.
Once this is done they’ll plan for another capital plan.
Will this be included in the business plan?
Yes, we can definitely look into this, how we can make improvements for the future if we were to go through that route. This time, I’m not sure if it will be included in the business plans but we will try to keep that in mind. If it was successful with the HAP Program then we can definitely look into it further in the future if we’re going to go through that route.
The communities can work together. I don’t know if you can call it co-op housing, but a cooperation or an agreement where if there are two units that comes into the community a number of individuals will build the units.
Charlie and somebody, or Violet’s house.
If there are more units coming in then Louis Tapardjuk or Patterk’s house can be constructed.
We definitely can work that way and those should be considered not in Iqaluit, but in the smaller communities. There is cooperation in the community amongst all the people, but it’s just that it has to be approved by the bank; that’s for the Iqaluit residents.
But in the smaller communities there is a lot of willingness to help each other and to cooperate and we can definitely do that in the communities.