EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
It’ll be spent in the communities under the trades program.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Kilabuk.
The amount that I was talking about, how would it be divided, like is Pond Inlet getting 100 dollars, Iqaluit 100 dollars or how will this money be divided.
Will it be divided by students based on how many students apply for the program.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Nutarak.
Would you like to respond Mr. Minister.
Hon. Peter Kilabuk (interpretation): Yes Mr. Chairman.
We haven’t decided how the money will be divided.
It probably won’t be enough but the money will be spent and we will look at it based on how many students apply.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Minister. Thank you.
We're on 9-11.
Mr. McLean: Thank you, Mr. Chairman I'm just going to make some comments, I'll try to ask some questions.
Under the student financial assistance there's 3 million 142 thousand dollars, and I don't want to be sarcastic today but I think it's time that this government starts showing some vision.
When we created Nunavut in 1999, it's a known fact that we separated from the NWT and one of the things was that we were going to stand on our own two feet and try to deliver programs on our own.
We've got a young population that we tell them that education is a priority and that to reach self-sufficiency that you’re going to have to get a good education.
Grade 12 was good enough for a lot of us years ago, but today the fact is a lot people need a university degree.
Like I was saying 50% of our population is under the age of 25 and a lot of them are in school and when they graduate they have expectations of all having jobs in Nunavut because a lot of us were told that and a lot of us have told the younger people that.
I think and it's just my humble opinion that our children are going to have higher aspirations than us, maybe they want to become lawyers and civil engineers and computer programmers and stuff like that.
I think you are going to see an influx of kids, high school graduates to southern institutions to get a higher degree of education that we can't offer them up here.
I know NTI has scholarships and grants, the federal government has scholarships and grants but what I'm getting into here is that student financial assistance is starting to hamstring a lot of people.
The previous minister developed a policy that you could get it twice a month, bi-weekly which is a great move, because we all heard horror stories of students not having enough money and trying to survive on hand outs, most students in southern Canada are probably like those in northern Canada, they have to go to relatives for meals.
What I'm getting to here is student financial assistance, the program that we had in the last twenty years, where we could send our students to Hay River and Fort Smith and Iqaluit and stuff like that.
We had a better feel for them, we had a better response for looking after them but like I say, I see a lot more students heading south for post secondary.
That’s where we’re going to start getting into problems with them trying to deal with the bureaucracy up here, and by the way I can congratulate the Nunavut government on having total bureaucratic lock down right now in a lot of things.
We've caught up, we're there now, but I think it's time to back off on a lot of this stuff and my question to you today is, are you prepared to do a review of the student financial assistance program and have some vision on where we're going and not where we are.
We're still sending people to Fort Smith for heavy equipment courses, we should be running heavy equipment courses in Nunavut.
We're still sending kids, adults over to Fort Smith to learn to be cooks.
We've got a hotel in every community in Nunavut and I know this has nothing to do with student financial assistance so I'm going to roll into Arctic College shortly.
But can you commit to even looking at doing a review with some vision on kids that decide to go south to Ottawa or Toronto, Winnipeg that they won't have to deal with a bureaucratic problem if they want to apply for universities and get assistance.
Would the minister like to respond.
Perhaps I could answer him in three ways.
As Nunavummiut to review the student financial assistance, we have agreed to do a review and within four months, we expect it would go ahead.
We realize that when a student is receiving assistance they often don't get enough for the month and we will continue to work on this.
I praise the minister on the review.
The review might not necessarily cost more.
But when the review is done would the minister commit to doing like a broad range consultation with students whether in southern institutions and also with students that are in northern institutions and facilities to see what can be done to make it easier.
Lo and behold, we might save some money.
That's just basically my comments to you.
We have been getting ideas from the members and I will work with the students everywhere including in the southern institutions.
I'm sure NTI and the Government of Canada will be involved in this also because that's second and third party funding that the students could probably utilize.
But going onto my other topic.
Arctic College, college contributions of 13 million 654 thousand.
I've got a sheet of paperwork in my office that I've written to Public Works, Arctic College, Department of Education on a major capital project that is happening in my community this summer.
I was starting to write back about six or seven months ago and this all fits into a plan that I've been trying to push forward is that we're probably going to get a large capital project in my community over two years.
One of the biggest issues is local employment and I've been beating that horse for the last year on it, that if the true statistics come out that the unemployment rate in my community isn't 17% it probably hovers around 38 - 39%.
Earlier today I was questioning the Premier on EI and how much money people need to survive up here.
But the EI fund today sits at 35 billion dollars.
The federal government kind of wrote us out of the equation on collecting EI because our seasonal workers up here are not like seasonal workers down south.
But the point I'm getting to here is I ran into 15 road blocks in the last six months.
I would call them cement walls with Arctic College and the government in trying to get Arctic College or Public Works or the Department of Education to set up a pre-carpentry course in my community that would fall into the construction of this project.
They've given me every reason why it can't be done and if they would only understand that a pre-carpentry course if we can get thirty people enrolled, and if they got the basics of carpentry they might get a job on this project. The employer or the contractor that gets the project may be able to hire them if they have a few basic skills.
That would help income support, which may get 15 or 20 off of SA, there would be a cost savings there for the government.
But, try to get that through the people that make the decisions in Arctic College.
The problem with that is you have Arctic College, they’re an autonomous board and I like that, I think that is a good idea, I think.
People convince me that it is, and I am still trying to believe in that because I think it is a good idea.
But, the decisions that were made at the regional level and sometimes the decisions at the territorial level do not reflect the priorities at the community level.
I ran into that in the last two years as an MLA.
Every time I write somebody a letter in Arctic College about a little training course, I am not trying to build rocket ships in Baker Lake.
I am not trying to build caterpillars.
I am trying to get a pre-carpentry course or pre-mining course or adult basic education program, and it seems like I am asking for the world.
If we are going to fund Arctic College, I wish the MLAs had a little bit of input in what happens in their communities.
Because the people are telling us this is what we need in our community.
I can't seem to relay that message back to Arctic College at the regional level.
I don't know if I am the only one having this problem, but there seems to be great programs at the regional level but try to get something basic happening at the local level that would fall into capital projects or the needs of the community.
That is my pet peeve with Arctic College.
I know that they are a lot wiser and things like that, but they have to make decisions based on what we need in our community.
If you go to my municipality and ask the hamlet council what their priorities are, they are totally different from Arctic College's priority at the regional level.
So, as the minister you probably heard this before.
I need help on this, I am asking for your help to help the community help itself.
When you have an autonomous board that is not listening, it is very difficult for people in their community, in my community to help themselves.
That is all I have to say about Arctic College.
It is just a comment.
That is just a comment.
That was a good comment Mr. McLean.
I have Mr. Iqaqrialu on my list.
I have a question regarding the 3 million dollars, following the comments that were raised earlier.
It was clarified a bit but, the 3 million 142 thousand dollars under student financial assistance.
A lot of the students end up dropping out of school because the money is not enough to last for a month.
It seems like you are encouraging students to give up.
It seems that you’re scared that they might succeed.
They might take on jobs that are coming up in Nunavut, and I am wondering why we are having problems with the student financial assistance when it should be set up so that the students are comfortable with it.
I don't agree with the member.
What he just stated is not true.
He stated that we are doing this so that our students will give up.
That is not the way it is, what he said is hurtful to the educators and the students.
We work hard to encourage our students to stay in school.
So Mr. Chairman, I'd like to have it on record that the Department of Education does not encourage the students to give up.
Perhaps he is trying to relay another question, but that is how I understood it.
I would like him to clarify.
Could you clarify your comments, Mr. Iqaqrialu.
Just clarify your comments Mr. Iqaqrialu.
I understand the minister’s comments.
My question was under 2001-2002, according to the three years that we see here or the two years that we see here we seem to have the same amount of money for grants to student financial assistance.
We are hearing that students are giving up because of a lack of money.
I just wondered why the money has not been increased.
The question that I have is that the 3 million 142 thousand, is it always adequate.
Is it always more.
Is that why they never increase it.
That's my question Mr. Chairman.
Yes, I thank Mr. Iqaqrialu for clarifying his comment.
Like I said, there will be a review of the student financial assistance and its operations.
After we receive the recommendations, we will be looking at all the things that we deal with under student financial assistance.
I just don't want it to be looked at.
I want some action on it so the money in this student financial assistance can increase.
Hon. Peter Kilabuk (interpretation): Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
We just don't want to change for the sake of changing something, it has to have a solid foundation.
We have to do a good review then we will be able to change the things that we have to change but I will not make the changes just for the sake of making changes.
Like, everybody knows Mr. Chairman, I just want to understand the member properly.
We will do the review and we will make the right changes to it.
On page 9-12 we have contributions, it provides for the operations and maintenance.
Just for information, when was the last time that you did an inventory or review of your facilities across Nunavut.
I'm just curious, the reason I'm asking that is do we have enough facilities in each community to address the needs of the communities.
We're spending 13 million dollars on that, it's quite a bit, maybe we need more on that.
I'm just trying to find out where we are on that.
When was the last time they did a review on the facilities.
If you don’t mind Mr. Chairman, I will get Mr. Moody to respond to the question.
He could give us an outline of the review of the college.
In response to Mr. Havioyak’s question, we are actually doing that now for all educational facilities across Nunavut as part of our 5 and 20 year capital planning process.
So, what we are doing is compiling quite a detailed database of not only our education facilities including Arctic College, but also the condition and the use of those.
That becomes a part of the information that we will use to feed into the wider government capital planning process.
I can't answer when it was last done, but we are doing it now.
The information that we are compiling now is very current, and it is our intent to always include Nunavut Arctic College in present and future capital planning initiatives such as that.
Qujannamiik Itsivautaq.
Mr. Havioyak: I guess that type of information will be available to the House and also to the Hamlet Councils, so that they have some input to that aside from the department itself.
Chairperson (interpretation): Any response to that.
We will be working with both the groups that he mentioned.
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Before I go to 9-12, a question on compensation and benefits.
In here there is 1 million 140 thousand dollars.
I just want again to confirm that is based on 100 percent capacity.
Also, could the minister indicate the percentage they are staffed at right now in that area.
Hon. Peter Kilabuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Regarding 9-11, 1 million 140 thousand dollars.
We are pretty well at 100% capacity.
Maybe I misunderstood the question.
If he could clarify.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Tootoo could you ask your question again.
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I guess I am asking the number of PYs that amount is budgeted for and what levels of capacity is staffed to this point.
For the number of PYs, I am sorry I made a mistake.
The number of PYs that are funded is 14.5.
There are four vacancies.
Chairperson (interpretation): We are under 9-11.
Compensation and benefits.
I would imagine the 14.5 is about 100%.
The amount there is budgeted for the full 100% staffing levels.
The 14.5 are for that 1.14 under compensation and benefits.
I am sorry to have to beleaguer and continue to push until I make sure that I get all the answers, but I've discovered by experience that you have to make sure that you get quite clearly the answers that you’re looking for and not leave any room for doubt.
Mr. Chairman looking under the grants and contributions for student financial assistance.
Showing the level that it's at right now, and I understand that the minister indicated that within the next four months, they’re going to be conducting a full review of that program.
To what level has it been, or what number of students have gone through and applied for the past year, how many people does that amount to, how many students has that served.
How many students are we funding to go to post secondary education, out of that amount.
The review is ongoing at this time, probably about three hundred students have applied for grants and contributions.
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman.
Just so I get this, three hundred, like for the 2000-2001 year there were three hundred applicants for student financial assistance. Is that what the minister is indicating.
Mr. Chairman is there any indication that the department or the minister knows how many of these students that we're funding are taking post secondary programs offered within Nunavut versus the number of students taking programs outside of Nunavut.
We don't have the answers to the member’s question at this time, and I will respond to the member tomorrow.
Mr. Chairman, I would just ask, if someone applies for student financial assistance, and I know I have a lot of students here in my constituency and I'm sure everyone does in their communities as well.
I know of students that have asked me, if they know I'm going hunting, can I come along, or can I come over and eat at your house because I don't have any food.
I am wondering how they, what type of formula, or where the numbers, what was used in determining what types of formula was used in determining the levels of assistance that each student gets.
Is it the same here in Iqaluit as it would be in any of the communities.
Is it the same here in Nunavut as it would be to someone going to a school outside the territory.
I'm just wondering if there's any way of showing that there's a difference, taking into account the different cost of living, depending on where you’re going to school.
What we do is if the person is going to school in Nunavut or in a southern institution, we have to use a northern rate and a southern rate.
So that's the formula that we follow.
That's the way it is right now.
Mr. Chairman can the minister, does the minister or his staff know what the difference between those two rates are.
I'm sorry we don't have the information available at this time so, if the member doesn't mind, we will have the information available for him tomorrow.
Mr. Chairman, I guess to go back to where those numbers came from and I know that a lot of legislation and I'm not sure if these numbers, you know, the level of assistance is identified within the legislation or if it's a policy thing.
Are these policies that we have or has the policy changed at all since the transfer from the NWT.
Has or is this based on the same formula that was in place prior to division.
The grants and contributions were from the GNWT and they were using them still to date.
However, in our review, part of the review will consist of looking at that.
What they do, the students at this time, we would like them to be able to get paid two times a month as part of the review.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Minister. Mr. Tootoo.
Mr. Chairman maybe just a comment, I know the minister is looking at doing a review and I think it's vital. I've seen over and over again and I was almost a victim of it myself when I was going to school, is that I couldn't afford for a while there, I couldn't afford to go to school.
As we see the rising costs that students are facing not only here in Nunavut but all over Canada wherever you go there's inflation and the cost of things go up, tuitions are going up, books are going up, rent, everything is going up.
As one of my colleagues mentioned earlier that, you know, if we really are sincere as a government about making education a priority and ensuring that we give our residents the opportunity to obtain the tools that they need to be able to come back and do the jobs that we need them to do here in Nunavut.
This particular program is vital to that.
We have to ensure that any resources that we put in this area, I urge all the government to look at it, it's not going to cost us more money.
You have to look at it as an investment.
With a sound investment here it should save us money in the future.
So hopefully that type of a mentality and this vision thinking that one of my colleagues mentioned earlier is taken into account when they are doing this review and I would urge the minister to use that argument when he is meeting with his colleagues as well.
Not looking at it as an expense, it is an investment.
Going on to the other one, 9-12, is a college contribution.
Is this just for the O&M of the college facility or is this for delivery, does this include program delivery as well.
Regarding the O&M costs, some of the funding is for that, for the maintenance and also to support the College.
I also want to mention that Arctic College does get funding from other sources outside of this government and they have that opportunity to look for funding from other sources.
So this includes all the program delivery and O&M costs of the College facilities.
I am not saying all of the O&M, all the program delivery.
But, this is the money the government provides to the college to provide some programs and services and not just to operate it's facilities.
Could you clarify that and then I got another one to follow that.
Yes, this is for all the facilities of Arctic College in Nunavut.
In the larger centres, this is used for operations and for programs on top of this.
There is also over 1 million dollars funding that is for the Teacher Education Program, outside this funding which we give as a contribution.
If I can ask the minister that not only outside of the Teacher Education Program, which has been reallocated to a different area, I am going to be asking a question on why that is there as well.
But, what programs do we get for the money that we provide to the college.
Are there certain programs that go along the lines of okay, we will give you this money, but we want you to provide these particular programs.
I am wondering what we get as far as programs, not only in the regional centres but also in all the communities out of this 13.5 million dollars.
The document that I have on hand states that there are very many programs that are supported.
If I could explain and highlight the main ones.
In all the communities, they have continuing education programs.
For example carving and accounting, home economics, cooking classes and prospectors support.
In addition, we provide them with basic office training programs, computer training programs, how to be a child psychologist or environmental technician.
Also heavy equipment operators, language and heritage programs, a training course on curriculum development and the literacy program.
So there are various programs provided in the communities and I can make them available if the members would like to see them in detail.
I will allow you to ask another question and when we first started, the chairperson stated that he would give each member ten minutes.
I think it has been 20 minutes you've been asking questions so I will allow you to ask another question.
Mr. Tootoo: Mr. Chairman is it 20 minutes of me asking questions or is it 20 minutes of questions and answers.
I've got lots and lots of issues it's probably the most important department that we are going to be dealing with here.
It is the key to the success and the future of our territory, so it's not something just to be ignored or taken lightly.
Under the college programs, I know in the past the college has looked at linking with southern universities for the provision of programs and a good example is with the TEP program.
They used to and I don't know if they still do but they used to go down to U of S to finish off their degree.
I know that there was an EMBA program that was done through St. Mary's I believe a year or two ago.
I'm just wondering is any of the post-secondary training or adult education services, are they all being offered, is it the college that's responsible for looking and finding and delivering these programs itself or is there another branch of the Department of Education that also looks at providing those types of services.
Arctic College provides the training programs but there's also a special committee that looks at the TEP programs.
We do have a special committee to deal with that.
Chairperson (interpretation): I will allow you to ask the last question.
According to our House rules, we have to allow the rest of the members to ask their questions and our rules say that we have ten minutes to ask questions but if there are no further questions from the other members, I will get back to you.
The minister mentioned a special committee.
Is this committee, does it deal specifically just with the Teacher Education program.
I'm just wondering when we are talking about creating efficiencies and economies of scale and delivery and stuff like that, why if there's a special committee, if the college is basically the vehicle in which all of our post secondary training flows through, why is there a different committee to look at certain aspects of it.
I was wondering if you could give an explanation as to why that is.