EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): Under that page, 10-5, under grants and contributions, in 2001-2002 there was a little over 1 million dollars, and there’s over 4 million dollars this year.
Is that to do with more employees or is that for the benefits that have increased?
It’s under grants and contributions.
Mr. Chairman, no the answer for this question is that in previous years in this line item for grants and contributions, we used to include the social services payments for alcohol and drug programs and the shelters.
They are now budgeted under contract services and after reviewing those agreements, we’ve transferred the budget to grants and contributions.
So now included here, in this line item are the contributions and grants including Nunavut Arctic College, the nursing and CHR programs as well as the community governments for the Committees of Council.
So we’ve increased the different areas that were being funded in a different area on another line item to the line item of grants and contributions.
Chairperson (interpretation): Anything else?
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): Under the same page, under contract services, what kinds of contracts are we talking about here?
Are you using professional contractors or is that to do with medical contracts?
Hon. Ed Picco: The member is correct.
That’s for medical contracts.
For example, out of territory hospitals 15 million dollars.
Non-Insured Health Benefits, that’s the NIHB, 12.9 million dollars.
Physician services, 7.2 million dollars.
Residential care, and that’s for out of territory placement of children and adults in care, that’s 5.8 million dollars.
Child foster services 2.8 million dollars.
So, for example, Mr. Chairman, all those areas are covered under that line item.
Chairperson (interpretation): Any more questions on that page?
If not, we’ll move to page 10-6.
Total operations and maintenance 19 million 339 thousand dollars.
Under contract services there is a decrease of about 50%.
Why is the decrease there?
I know you touched on some contracts earlier but in the directorate why is it down by 50%?
I would like the members to know that there’s another page on the directorate which is 10-7.
Just a bit of clarification and that goes back to the Member for Pond Inlet’s earlier question.
In prior years, under the payments for alcohol and drug programs and shelters, they had been budgeted under contract services.
What we’ve done now is put them under grants and contributions because they’re actually grants and contributions to those shelters for example.
And it also includes the Nunavut Arctic College and so on.
So that’s why the decrease, because we’ve taken other items out and put them under the other area, other line item.
Mr. Havioyak: On the other expenses, you might have moved something there but maybe, it’s good to know what you have put into the lines of the other expenses.
It’s quite a big increase, about a 2 million dollar increase.
Mr. Chairman, I guess the largest item in that area would be the equipment for the departmental staff for hardware and software, especially for the registration of the health information, so that’s basically what that’s for.
Or the health insurance program in Rankin Inlet.
Mr. Havioyak: Both of you were talking there when you answered so, I’m sorry I kind of missed that answer.
I apologise to the member.
That area there, Mr. Chairman, the largest item in that area would be for the hardware and software for the registration of the health programs that are in Rankin Inlet.
We had been in the past using the NWT software, now we’re using Nunavut software.
So that’s the largest item in that area, for the member’s information.
I hope that helps answer your question.
My question is on page 10-7, it’s part of 10-6 I think.
On the Nunavut Nursing program if I could ask him simple questions at first.
We can’t be given information on exactly how much they make.
There’s 600 thousand dollars for the Nunavut Nursing Program, and it’s the same thing for 2001-2002 and 2002-2003.
I think it’s got to do with the 15 nursing program students for the first year and second year students, and for the access nursing program at first and the second year students.
If that’s the case, now we know that.
Under 2001-2002, exactly how much money did you use for the nursing program out of the 600 thousand dollars?
Mr. Chairman, the member may remember when this was initially set up, we had built into the budget of the Department of Health and Social Services, into the base, the 600 thousand dollars to purchase the program from Arctic College.
All that 600 thousand dollars would include, logistically, the administration as well as some of the financial costs to the college to deliver the program.
That includes the hiring of instructors, as well as the practicum and so on.
That’s in the base.
So we contribute that directly to the college and then they run the program.
I don’t have the break-down here because it’s transferred to another department.
That would be Minister Kilabuk who would have that information on the total costs expended.
I have the amount that is transferred which is the 600 thousand dollars.
I will ask that question of Mr. Kilabuk in the House during question period.
We all know that the people taking the law school program, the Akitsiraq Law School and the Nunavut Nursing Program along with other programs, we know that there are all sorts of courses, and that we are sparsely populated in Nunavut, but we have to feed the students because they are not from here and their financial assistance is quite low.
I know that there is a wife who goes to the nursing program and the husband is here with their two children.
I heard that they were making 600 dollars a month.
In the middle of the month they would get 100 dollars.
So at the end of the month they get about 500 dollars or whatever.
I don’t know whether it’s true or not, maybe the minister can enlighten me, but I guess they went from 600 to 800 dollars a month.
It was also scheduled so that half of the amount was paid out at the middle of the month, is that true or am I mistaken?
Hon. Ed Picco: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, you look very dapper this evening Mr. Chairman, very nice.
Mr. Chairman, first of all under the Nursing Program there’s two financial opportunities for the Nursing Program that I am aware of through the Government of Nunavut.
One is the Student Financial Assistance Program and based on the family needs of each individual student.
So for example, if a student has, let’s say a husband and two children they would receive more money than a single parent as an example.
So there are factors in the way the Student Financial Assistance is allocated and I can’t comment on what the maximum or the minimums are.
That debate was held over the last couple of days with the Minister of Education on the review of the Student Financial Assistance Program.
What I can say that with the Student Financial Assistance Program we had heard from the Nursing Students that they were having difficulty and that’s why we brought in the bursary program which was unconditional funding to the nursing students.
So each student, nursing student received up to ten thousand dollars during their academic school year.
That was unconditional funding in that Mr. Chairman, as you know unconditional means that they could use the money for rent, they could use it for food they could use it for airline tickets to go home it was theirs that they chose to do what they needed the money for.
At the same time we brought in fifteen hundred dollars for the students of the Nursing Program that were in the access year.
Now I understand that there is a concern that the Law Program actually has a base salary and so on but that’s outside the scope of what I could deal with today under the Nursing Program.
I can say that we believe that the bursary program has been successful and as I said before in this House, I need to go out now and get corporate sponsorship for that program from larger corporations to help me match the funds I initially put into it from the government to keep that program continuing.
So far Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to say that the uptake has been good.
I am some ways away from reaching the goal that we need to be self-sustaining on a corporate donation basis.
The ten thousand dollars that we talked about earlier, was paid out in quarterly payments.
My question was whether I’m right or not?
That was my previous question and can he respond.
Hon. Ed Picco: I think I answered the question by saying he is partially correct on his initial question.
We’re talking about the Main Estimates and we have to approve this budget.
Also we’re trying to make the best representation of our people in trying to approve the budget.
I’m using as an example, in regards to the 600 thousand dollar budget; he stated that I’m partially right.
If I am partially right, then as we have all heard, the people that are taking the law school program get about 50 thousand dollars annually.
If the nursing program students make 800 dollars a month, it’s about 9 thousand 600 dollars annually. If we use accountants to calculate the figures, it’s about ten, I’m sorry; it’s about five times more than what the nursing program students get.
From 1999, ever since we were sworn in as members of this House, we have been continually saying, especially my good friend the minister has been saying that we need nurses that are going to be staying in the north.
He has been talking about options for retaining nurses in Nunavut.
He even talks about giving them bonuses to retain them here in Nunavut.
We look for nurses in Australia and other places, and the really crucial nursing program has to continue.
And here they’re making 5 times less than the law school program students.
What I am trying to understand is do we have a vision?
Yes, the program is under Arctic College, we all know that but we have to make sure that the money is sufficient for the nursing program or on par with the Akitsiraq Law School students or just take it completely out of Arctic College.
It has to be rectified.
The reason why I asked the question was because we state that it’s very important to have nurses in Nunavut.
At the same time, we’re not giving them enough money to complete the course and they sometimes don’t have enough to eat while they’re taking the nursing program.
They are on a literal diet with not enough finances and not enough food and this lasts throughout the entire program.
Do we really want nurses?
If that is the case, and we agree that we need nurses, then I think we have to allocate the necessary resources to deal with these issues.
Mr. Chairman, under directorate, 10-6, it states the compensation and benefits of staff is 11 million 360 thousand dollars.
And the ones that are supposedly very important for Nunavut, which are the Inuit who are taking the nursing program; it’s just 600 thousand dollars that we’re giving them.
I think we’re going to have to make a motion in the House which states, I don’t know when it will happen, but the assistance that the nursing program students are getting while they’re taking the program, this money they have to survive, it is not enough.
The importance of these positions is not irrelevant because you can exist without lawyers and nobody will die even if we have no lawyers.
However if you do not have any nurses available, someone could conceivably die.
Which one is more important to us, to Nunavut?
I would like to ask the minister if he can commit to and believe in the program which is training these nurses and he can commit whatever resources are necessary to have a successful program and to have these graduates work in Nunavut, whether that be housing, financial or otherwise? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Hon. Ed Picco: Mr. Chairman, first of all let me say that I appreciate Mr. Arvaluk’s comments.
Mr. Arvaluk, as members know and I have said several times in this House several times during the budget debate, he was one of the major advocates when we brought forward the nursing program three years ago.
The money that’s being approved here Mr. Chairman, and I want to make it clear.
The money that’s being approved here today, the 600 thousand dollars is not for student financial assistance, it’s not for compensation, that 600 thousand dollars is to buy the program from Arctic College to pay for classroom space, to pay for classroom instructors, to pay for the text books, and so on.
It’s not to pay students and it’s not to pay any student financial assistance.
We just dealt with those issues with the education budget when the members reviewed the student financial assistance.
I have suggested to you and I have said in the House that I realize this is a problem with the some of the financial considerations for the nursing students and that’s why I brought forward the bursary, first time ever, in the history of Arctic College, Nunavut Arctic College or indeed Aurora College in the west that there was a bursary program funded by a government specifically for a program.
I think we can do more to keep students and to attract students.
We’ve heard some good comments today in the House.
So, I want to make it clear to the member that this budget goes outside the scope of allowing for extra student financial assistance for the nursing program and it is not there to compare the nursing program to the law school.
That’s a unique program unto itself, where there is work tenure and so on involved in it, corporate sponsorship for salary dollars.
The nursing program is base funded in my budget and will continue year 1, year 2, year 3, year 4, and as soon as someone graduates year 3 or year 4, they keep going on in other years in the program.
So with that Mr. Chairman, I thank you for your kind words earlier and I appreciate the support and advocacy of Mr. Arvaluk and the members in helping us continue with the nursing program.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you. At times the responses, when they start to get long it’s hard to tell what questions have been responded to and what the question was.
You could have just said what the 600 thousand dollars was going to be used for.
So just respond to the question that is being raised.
And thank you to the minister for his response.
My last question: does he agree that he’ll work with the Minister of Education to encourage students to stay in school and that they are provided with country food and that the money will be enough, and will they need supplementary funds for these students this year?
Mr. Chairman, I mean I have agreed with Minister Kilabuk on many occasions. I have severely disagreed with Minister Kilabuk on many occasions.
So I can work with him and I look forward to working with him to see if there is an opportunity to continue the good work on the student financial assistance for the program and I’m sure that Minister Kilabuk, I see now he’s willing, he is saying over there yes, he wants to work with me on this.
So I look forward to working with him on the program and I can commit to the Honourable Member that we will again review the opportunities that present itself with the bursary program.
I have a couple of names on my list.
Ms. Williams and Mr. Iqaqrialu.
Under 10-6, Directorate.
How many staff does this 11 million go towards, how many staff members are there that it requires 11 million dollars.
Looking at the other departments, they don’t use up that much.
Just to get an idea how many staff members this goes towards?
Mr. Chairman that line item there includes the three regional offices, Rankin Inlet, Pangnirtung, and the Kugluktuk decentralized office as well as headquarters and we would be looking at in excess of 130 positions in total for the regional offices and HQ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Just so that I understand, the O and M expenditure for 2001-2002, it says 127 staff on the budget, the cost was 19 million 562 thousand.
What’s the difference now from that time to today?
I wonder if the member could clarify which page that is?
Chairperson (interpretation): We’re on page 10-6 and it goes onto 10-7, Directorate.
Ms. Williams could you clarify your question?
Ms. Williams: I’m referring to the Program Review working document that was provided to us and it says a breakdown of divisions, the staffing and the costs, that’s what I was referring to.
It indicates PYs 127 in Directorate and the costs 19 million 562 thousand.
But the minister is saying that it’s 130 staff in this one but the budget is 11 million, so I’m just trying to understand exactly where we are.
Chairperson (interpretation): We weren’t on that page, she isn’t talking about this page but I’ll get the minister to respond.
Mr. Chairman I can respond under the 10-6 and suggest to you that on our compensation and benefits and if I may, I’ll go slow so that you can write the numbers down.
Under headquarters, FTE or the fulltime equivalency there’s 112 HQ, and that budget is 10 million 254 thousand.
Under the Baffin region and that’s all the communities in the Baffin there’s 257 FTE and that’s 21 million 984 thousand.
Under the Kivalliq region there’s 148.3 FTE and that’s 12 million 80 thousand and under the Kitikmeot there’s 72.6 FTE and that’s 6 million 106.
So the total employees under the compensation and benefits for the three regions plus headquarters is 589.9 or 50 million 424 thousand now that compensation has been adjusted to reflect the increased costs in the new contract agreement that was just signed.
That also includes the departmental staffing which includes the three regions and the headquarters.
So, I hope that maybe makes some clarification. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairperson (interpretation): Just to remind the members we’re on 10-6, so if you have any questions you can raise your questions in regards to 10-6 and you can’t raise questions on items that haven’t been tabled in the House.
I’m sorry, I confused the question.
My question only was for the directorate division.
I’m not talking about the whole Nunavut.
How many PYs do you have in there that cost 11 million 360 thousand dollars?
It’s on 10-6.
Mr. Chairman, I don’t have the numbers here in front of me on what the total positions are in the directorate for the 11 million dollars.
But I can say it includes headquarters, and three regional offices.
But we can have that information for the member for tomorrow in the committee.
Are you done? Mr. Iqaqrialu.
Please do not direct me to the Minister of Education when I am asking something as I will not be asking him.
I would like to ask a short question.
Under fees and payments, it was 409 thousand dollars and it’s gone down to 206 thousand dollars.
What’s the reason for the decrease under fees and payments on page 10-6?
Mr. Chairman, the member as usual is very observant, and I was just trying to help clarify the question earlier with the Education Minister.
I’m very pleased and proud to represent him as the Health Minister.
I would like to take this opportunity to explain that answer.
And the answer is very simply that the social services related expenditures for the Kitikmeot region were incorrectly coded to the directorate area or division.
So, that meant the amounts have now been properly recorded under healthy children, family and the community for 2002-2003 and that’s why the drop.
So it was incorrect coding in the previous revised estimates.
Under other expenses on 10-6, Main Estimates for 2001-2002, there’s 2 million 18 thousand dollars for 2001-2002 and the revised estimate was 518 thousand and then for 2002-2003, it’s gone up to 2 million 150 thousand dollars.
Why have the figures changed?
I think we had previously given that answer for that area.
That was, when we talked about the extra money that we had put in place for computer related purchases, under other expenses, the software and the hardware that we talked about earlier.
We were using previously the software from the Northwest Territories and have introduced the Nunavut software and that’s why the increase.
So, in the main estimates, there was 2 million dollars, and in the revised estimates, the 518 thousand.
So we had to continue this year with the computer software and hardware purchases and that’s why the amount is there.
We weren’t able to bring it forward completely last year.
On 10-7, Committees of Council, the contribution of 5 thousand dollars per community for support of the operations of hamlet committees.
It is 200 thousand and it was 130 thousand dollars and the contribution hasn’t changed.
I’m wondering if this hasn’t been changed because the communities aren’t asking for an increase, is it because some communities haven’t started up a committee or because it’s not properly done?
Chairperson (interpretation): Picco.
Mr. Chairman, last year we had budgeted in the 2001-2002 main estimates 130 thousand dollars, for the Committees of Council. That was expended.
We’ve increased that to 200 thousand dollars this year so we tried to increase the amounts given to each community and in the opening comments by the Chairman of the committee, he noted that there was some concern that it was unfair that smaller communities weren’t receiving an increase.
What we have done is we haven’t decreased anyone.
Everyone received the same amount which is 5 thousand dollars and based on the per capita amount we increased.
So, the member, what we’ve done now is increased the amount from 130 thousand dollars to 200 thousand dollars budget amount in the Main Estimates.
And it also leaves some room for us to review again, based on requirements from the committees, as communities come back and say you’ve given me 5 or 6 and there isn’t enough money.
I do have a little bit more money or flexibility there within that budget to be able to allocate more money based on need as indicated by the committee.
That’s one of the recommendations we followed from the health committee.
Some communities probably haven’t asked for more than 5 thousand dollars.
How about if under the training when your staff went to communities to train councils, I’m wondering if the councils are aware of being able to increase their budgets?
Are they made aware of this?
If he could please clarify this for me Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
No, they wouldn’t be aware of it until today because this is the first time we’ve had an opportunity to present the budget and the amounts.
So, if this budget is approved, then we will be contacting the communities and saying here’s what the allocated amounts are and if there is a need for more money based on what we have contingent in the budget we’d be able to look at their request and hopefully increase it.
The money that was spent training committees of council is covered under the department’s budget not in the committee budget.
They don’t have to pay for that.
Chairperson (interpretation): At this time I have Ms. Williams.
Page 10-6, other expenses. (interpretation) Could the minister tell me what they use that 2 million 150 thousand dollars under other expenses for?
I answered that question earlier.
As I said earlier, one of the larger expenses in that other expenses is for computer related purchases under the directorate and that’s for the software and the hardware.
That’s especially for the health insurance program in Rankin Inlet.
That would be the basis of that.
And there are also contingent funds there for example, sometimes for emergency needs, within the department also.
For example, if we had another RSV outbreak, then those are contingent funds that you’d have available.
In one particular community for example this year, when we had an RSV outbreak, we had to bring in a battery of doctors and fly out a lot of patients and we try to have some contingency funds that’s included in the other expenses.
The major hard item in the expenses is the computer software purchases.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Nutarak please proceed.
I apologise. Mr. Havioyak then Mr. Arvaluk.
It would be interesting to know, you mentioned emergencies.
How much of that would be emergency money that you put there?
The reason, you know, sometimes you might not use it, and you know it really depends on the emergency.
It would be interesting to know the number and how much that emergency contingency is.