EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
I just want to know: when you come up with a comprehensive agreement, who is responsible for the oversight of that agreement for the child’s life up until the age of 18? Are there certain things that have to happen?
For example, they have to be taught about their culture, you mentioned, I think.
Well, who is there to say that that’s actually being done? Who does that?
That’s my last question.
I haven’t identified anyone who would do the monitoring.
We are on Branch Summary. Children and Family Services.
The question I wanted to ask was already brought up that I wanted clarification on.
However, perhaps to make it absolutely clear, my question relates to people who are sent out from Nunavut for mental health issues or other kinds of issues.
They are sent south due to the fact that Nunavut has no facilities or institutions that can provide this service.
In those cases where residents are sent south for treatment, what is the average annual cost due to the lack of facilities to provide this service here in Nunavut?
I hope I was clear, Mr. Chairman.
It’s close to $29 million.
Mr. Mapsalak (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Chairman. That figure is absolutely exorbitant and in my opinion, we could put that money to better use by setting up a facility or institution and that would be easier to substantiate and accept.
Also another issue that was brought up earlier in another question related to this issue which I understand is being worked on and something members want to see implemented.
With the reality today where clients are sent south for treatment, are the parents or relatives allowed to visit the client a couple of times a year? How many trips are allowed to visit their child?
The parents or the foster parents can go down and see their child twice a year.
We are on Branch Summary. Family Services. Children and Family Services.
Following the list of names, Mr. Enook.
I want further information about adoptions based on the responses I heard, as I already had a question on the matter.
Let me first ask this question as the 2015-16 business plan speaks about the review of the Aboriginal Custom Adoption Recognition Act.
What specifically will be the subject of your review and for what reason?
With respect to traditional Inuit adoption practices, the numbers continue to increase every year with children being adopted by family members.
We will be looking at these figures with Nunavut Tunngavik. As NTI is responsible for beneficiaries, we will work with them on this file.
Just last month in January, the terms of reference for the review will be developed.
When are you going to complete that review and when can we get an update or the result of that review?
Hon. Jeannie Ugyuk (interpretation): If approved, we can proceed with the review and then at that time, we will identify when the deadline will be.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If it’s approved, when would you start and when would you complete the review?
Hon. Jeannie Ugyuk (interpretation): I will refer this question to Brandon Grant.
As the minister stated, we have drafted a draft terms of reference. We still require engagement with our stakeholders. Once they have approved it, we will be able to provide a timeline in which we will be able to complete the review.
You stated that the stakeholders will be included in further discussions on this timeline. Do you have a list of issues or subjects that will be discussed to work towards this timeline? Alternatively, do you have an idea of when you want to complete this review?
Here I am asking about the department and not the stakeholders.
Hon. Jeannie Ugyuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. At our next meeting, we will be discussing the review process and if the adopted children aren’t in dangerous situations where custom adoption following Inuit practices has been done. Also, we will review the Act to see if changes are required and to see if the traditional practice is being followed by the parents and adoptive parents.
The traditional Inuit practice is to adopt out children to our close relatives.
We will review all of these issues.
The reason for my line of questioning is because the (interpretation ends) Hon. Minister (interpretation) has stated in the past that this would be agreed to by January 2015. We are now in March.
What is the issue causing the disagreement over this review?
We haven’t reached out to the stakeholders to hear their views on this issue. That is how I can respond at this time.
Your opening comments stated that this review would be completed by January.
Why hasn’t your department undertaken this consultation of the stakeholders yet?
I’m sorry, but I don’t think I understood you. I will refer this to Brandon Grant.
As the member stated, we have not engaged yet; we didn’t meet the January deadline. We have a draft term of reference. We have a new deputy minister that we wanted to provide the opportunity to review the terms of reference before we proceeded engaging our stakeholders, so that is why we have been delayed.
Now that the process has been delayed, when is the next date when you would start the review?
The statement was made that the stakeholder requiring further clarification is now available.
When is your expected starting date for this process?
Ms. Williams (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, we have drafted up the terms of reference on this issue. Using the best approach that doesn’t make people uncomfortable or stressed out, we will disseminate the information to the Inuit organizations and the general public.
This will impact many residents and further, it will have impact their perspectives and their feelings, so we know the possible impacts.
The draft terms of reference I alluded to outlines the approach we want to take and identify the best methods to use.
What I can respond with here is that this spring, perhaps in the next two months in 2015, we hope to complete the work required.
We will need to work with our stakeholders and we will have to negotiate with the various organizations after the review has been completed, Mr. Chairman.
Based on that response, if this begins in May or June, what timeline do you estimate is required for completion of this process?
Does your department have the position that you can move ahead without speaking to NTI, and what is your estimated timeline to complete this review?
This will be based on the number of meetings we hold as this will define the direction we will move towards, but we haven’t estimated a timeline as of yet.
We will wait for developments again.
Mr. Chairman, this other issue I would like further information on touches upon a question that was raised by one of our colleagues and I didn’t quite grasp the response.
The issue being discussed was (interpretation ends) adoption (interpretation) and my colleague asked questions about Inuit children who have been adopted out and whether they have to be informed of their Inuit culture and background. Apparently the department wants to have that requirement added.
I really perked my ears when the minister stated that currently there is no one checking to see if this requirement is being complied with.
That is where I may have misunderstood, as the department wants this requirement, but nobody in the department is monitoring whether or not this is being followed.
With respect to children adopted through (interpretation ends) private adoption and departmental adoption, (interpretation) I know for a fact that (interpretation ends) departmental adoption (interpretation) assesses the prospective parents and they have to agree with the legal requirements if they wish to adopt a child from Nunavut.
The requirements are part of the assessment done by the court system for prospective adoptive parents.
Although we don’t have anyone monitoring this situation, this requirement is still there and the department continues to maintain contact through the (interpretation ends) child protection workers (interpretation) to the parents.
The adoptive parents have to sign this agreement and upon their agreement, we automatically assume they will follow this requirement once they have signed the agreement. Upon this signing, our government will never monitor this requirement nor will they follow up to see if this requirement was followed as this agreement was signed.
As the minister responsible for this mandate, are you aware of whether or not this requirement is being followed?
Does your department know if the agreement is being adhered to by the adopters?
Hon. Jeannie Ugyuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Since that question is quite broad, I will have to research it and provide it at a later date.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, let me ask for your direction in this area since I seemed to understand that my question, if I were to state it in English, (interpretation ends) was taken as notice. (interpretation) Can the minister take a question as notice in the Committee of the Whole?
Mr. Chairman, please advise me on that.
Chairman (interpretation): If I understood properly, (interpretation ends) she didn’t take it as notice, but once she has all the details, she will get back to the member.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): I was looking at her when I asked the question whether she took it as notice and it looked like she agreed that (interpretation ends) she is taking it as notice.
Chairman (interpretation): To clarify, (interpretation ends) she cannot take it as notice in Committee of the Whole, only in question period. (interpretation) If you want to respond, Minister Ugyuk.
Whenever any couple adopts children, they are screened by lawyers, but our department doesn’t receive that information.
Inuit organizations receive that information because they need to be aware of Inuit children who are being adopted. This is part of the legal requirements listed in the legislation.
With respect to the screening or monitoring, I will provide that information to the member once I have the details that he was asking about related to monitoring of this requirement.
However, the reason for my misunderstanding perhaps is due to your dialect, as you stated earlier that you haven’t identified a monitor to review this.
I understood that this hasn’t been dealt with yet nor is it being dealt with presently. Now you just mentioned that you will have to conduct some research on this issue.
However, you also stated that the parties have to sign off on an agreement to govern the adoption and that they have to comply with the requirements of that agreement since they have agreed to these requirements.
It seems to me that upon agreement with the department, the adoptive parents are now complying with all of these requirements.
I think we all know that even when we agree or sign off on an agreement, sometimes not every requirement is met.
That is my only source of concern.
Why hasn’t the department made the monitor a priority? Let’s not just make the assumption that by agreeing to the agreement, the parents will follow the requirements, and not place blind faith on the parents meeting these requirements.
Why hasn’t your department ever taken this into consideration on a different tack for this matter?
My (interpretation ends) deputy minister (interpretation) will respond.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you very much Ms. Williams.
I was speaking in English when I was replying to MLA Angnakak’s questions about private adoption. I used the term “comprehensive.” I was talking about we have a comprehensive home study, if you know what that means.
If I’m going to be adopting somebody, social service workers will come to my house and look at my house, how big the house is, where the garbage can is, and if the fridge is full of food. They would look at my house and they would talk to me. They would go through my criminal record and everything else about me.
That is a comprehensive home study.
Now, we’re talking about when the children are adopted to other cultures other than Inuktitut. Is there somebody watching to make sure these people know about their home or anything about them?
I have to apologize, but I’m not up on that to see if that is actually in the Act or in any agreement.
What I’m trying to say is that we can study that a little bit better and provide the information somehow so that everybody is clear in the House.
Indeed, I am aware of the fact that adoptions under your department are in three categories and each category has their own rules pertaining to that specific category.
I do know that for a fact.
The one issue I keep returning to in my comments here is the reference to the agreements that adoptive parents have to sign off on, but I am unsure which category has that requirement because when a custom adoption takes place, the adoptee is made fully aware of their Inuit background and culture, etcetera.
The only matter I am trying to ask the minister about is the agreements and how your department attempts to monitor whether or not the adopted children are provided with that cultural orientation or background.
I seemed to hear your response earlier that when an agreement is signed off on, according to the department, everything is fine and the assumption is that the parents will fulfill their duties and the department just takes their word for it. That was your response.
Nonetheless, you responded afterwards that you will have to check into the actual status and would respond later on. I will leave that for now, as my only query is regarding the agreement monitoring. I will wait for further information to be provided and I expect it in the future.
Chairman: I take that as a comment. I have no more names on my list.
Total Operations and Maintenance, to be Voted. $53,658,000. Agreed?
Flipping onto the next page, Family Services. Branch Summary. Income Assistance.
On page 126 of the business plan under income support and objectives, it says, “To identify, review and evaluate policy and procedural matters surrounding the delivery and administration of income assistance programs in Nunavut.”
I wonder if the minister can describe which key areas of income assistance will be reviewed as a priority.
Under Sivumut Abluqta, there is a requirement to review the legislation to see what requires improvement related to income support programming.
As I stated earlier, we get support from government lawyers to try and update some of the old policies and programs.
That is where this situation stands at this time.
Does the department anticipate bringing forward any proposed legislation to change the Social Assistance Act and, if so, when do they anticipate bringing forward such legislation?
The three proposed areas of change for social assistance programs are compliance and expenditure control, transitional support for social assistance clients, and a framework for social assistance rates.
We are trying to stay away from when we are going to finish things because we are not meeting so many deadlines.
As you know, the department is just starting. We are trying to reach full capacity to start working on some of these actions.
Under the Social Assistance Regulations on page 10, it talks about unearned income. On page 11, section I, it says, “gifts and gratuities if received regularly or in the amount in excess of $40 a month.”
I wonder if the minister can explain this particular item and if she could describe exactly what she means by gifts.
I would like Brandon Grant to answer the question, please.
As the minister mentioned, there are three areas where we have drafted a presentation that we have delivered to the DM of Quality of Life Committee, which is the oversee committee for social assistance reform.
We’re acting on areas, including our compliance area in which we’re delivering the system to more communities this year. We have been able to deploy to Rankin Inlet, Arviat, Cambridge Bay, Baker Lake, as well as we will be completing deployment in Igloolik as well this year.
We will be finalizing some changes to the Act and regulations on needed areas, including updating some of the issues like gifts, but also finding ways in which we can incentivize work and modernize the Act and regulations that haven’t been changed in a while.
The member referenced gifts.
That could be anything from possibly honorarium.
I would have to review this specific section he is referencing, but it points to the matter that the regulations are in need of updating and there should be changes coming to us from our lawyer by March 31 that we will review with our deputy minister and minister and hopefully, we will be able to share it with the House very soon.
Mr. Rumbolt: Mr. Chairman, it’s nice to know that this particular area is going to be reviewed because that was going to be a question I was going to ask towards the end of my questioning.
Nonetheless, this regulation is still out there at the present time and we’re not quite sure when it will be changed, so I will continue with my questions in this area.
How does your department monitor this aspect of the regulations?
Do you have people that actually go out there and check to make sure that people don’t get gifts over $40, or do you rely on the honesty of the clients?
The income support workers who work locally are being provided with further training on these new technologies and computer software.
As we switch from paper to digital work, we have made some progress on that front.  However, with respect to the member’s question, I would like Brandon Grant to respond, please.
All clients in the system, whether or not they’re in the electronic system or in the manual environment, go through an assessment process each month. During the assessment process, all clients must sign a statement of authorization and declaration that they’re going to be truthful. We also do a number of checks.
We check people’s bank statements to verify income. We check for printouts for child benefit supplement. We do income verification each and every month.
I think the member is pointing to an area within the regulations that would difficult to capture because income verification is a challenging process. That is why our focus in our business plan into the future for our workers is building their capacity through increased training.
That is how I would answer that.
That is my point: you rely on the honesty of the client to make sure you get all of your information correctly. In the case where people get gifts, if the client reports it, then there is a good chance that the amount of income support they receive will be deducted for that month. Then on the other end, you have clients who don’t report it and their income support is not affected.
That is exactly the point that I’m trying to make with this particular area.
Again, along the gifts area, in the news lately, there was talk about “Helping our Northern Neighbours” and you have such things as food banks, even soup kitchens that provide services to people who don’t have enough to make their ends meet throughout the month.
How does your department take this into consideration on a monthly basis if, for example, “Helping our Northern Neighbours” gives a food basket to a particular family and it could have a value of maybe even $200? Does this affect the income support for that particular month?
This is a new item. I will look into it.
“Helping our Northern Neighbours” may be a new item, but such items as food banks and soup kitchens are not new in the north and have been around a long time.
Again I’ll ask the same question and I’ll use the food bank for an example. If a person on income support goes to a food bank and picks up a bag of groceries that is worth $60, $80, or $100, does this affect the client’s income support for that particular month?
Hon. Jeannie Ugyuk (interpretation): When they are assisted by someone else, we don’t look at that.
I guess it goes back to the income support client being honest when they’re applying for their income support for the month.
Again, along the same lines, it says, gifts in excess of $40 a month. A scenario I’ll throw at you is not hypothetical at all. It happens every day.
My wife does it. When you have family members who are on income support and they don’t have enough money to get them through the month, we end up helping them. We give them $100 to go and buy food or we go to the store and we buy food for them.
By them not reporting that I provided that service to them, they’re in violation of their income support or whatever rules you call it there.
Does your income support worker take this into consideration each month too?
Brandon Grant will respond to that question.
I’m glad the member asked. One of the areas in which we are making changes within the regulations is around liquid asset policy and around how we deal with cash gifts because it is an issue in our communities, especially around income tax return lump-sum payments, around bingo, and other lump sums that individuals receive.
It’s one of the areas in which our workers have brought up that is an area in need of change. It will be forthcoming.
Our lawyer is scheduled to deliver regulation changes, including a liquid asset exemption rule within the regulations, by March 31.
Once our minister and deputy minister have reviewed these changes, hopefully we will be able to update the House soon.
I don’t have very many questions in this area, but I do want to ask about social assistance.
I would like to know what kind of counselling takes place when a client comes into the department and asks to go on social assistance.
In following the legislation for this area, clients become eligible to apply for income support once they turn 18 years old and this is for all Nunavut residents to meet their dietary needs.
We also work with the (interpretation ends) Career Development (interpretation) Division, as they are part of the department, and to try to work with the clients to wean them off income support by offering further education or job training if they are able to take the training courses.
This is part of our future plans and that is what we are working towards.
I would ask that my (interpretation ends) deputy minister (interpretation) provide more details.
Whenever a new client applies for income support, they approach the local income support worker. The client is briefed about the purpose of the program and what types of support is available to them. When the discussion takes place, they are informed about potential training courses or upgrading or areas where they can look for job opportunities.
That is the practice we use today and we know it needs to be changed.
The client is provided with a job search form where they approach the listed organizations to see if any opportunities are present and, if not, they would sign the form saying that the client had approached them to enquire about jobs.
That is the practice we use. We are also aware that many communities don’t have any employment opportunities available. Even with that requirement, we should be aware that 41 percent of residents in Nunavut receive income support.
The income support worker works with the client to see if any possibility of self-reliance can be worked towards.
As we heard earlier, it seems the department isn’t providing proper assistance to people living on the poverty line.
Our expectations are that the Income Assistance Program will be improved. To use Iqaluit as an example, a couple with three children with five people in a household receives $1,300 a month for income support.
We are aware that as Iqaluit residents, this amount is insufficient to meet their needs.
It is due to these factors that we have to review the program. The last increase was in 2011 when a 15 percent increase was added to the income support levels, but we are aware that we need to make more improvements.
I hope I responded appropriately, Mr. Chairman.
I just want to know: when somebody sits down with an 18-year-old who comes into the office saying that he or she wants to go on income support, are they sent to a career counsellor before they are signed up for income support?
We are in the process of reviewing. I would like Brandon Grant to explain it in more detail.