EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Before Nunavut became a reality we had some hard feelings with the previous territorial government and we have had some problems with that, especially the people who had their traditional dog teams shot by the Federal Government.
They also had traditional sod houses and equipment in Kiviqtuuq.
Because this touched all lives, the problems that we encountered with the Federal Government left us with hard feelings.
I just wanted you to know that there should be something done by the Department of Justice.
We should request the Department of Justice to be able to provide some assistance for us.
Every since we were growing up and even before we were born up to today, it affects us greatly.
We have gone through hardships by being told what to do from childhood to when we grow up.
Even when we were children all the things that we had to go through such as being abused have hurt us.
That is the reason why Inuit people sometimes tend to break laws.
The people of Nunavut have not always known the laws of the government.
There have been a lot of people that have gone through the correctional system without knowing exactly what laws they broke, because we cannot read the English laws as we have never learned to speak or read in English - the people that live in Nunavut.
Since the 1960s, we have been able to start our education in English.
That is the time that we started speaking English and that is the reason why we don’t really read English because we were unilingual.
And we didn’t really know anything about the laws of the Government because they have never been translated and we have been called criminals although we did not even know that we were breaking the laws.
This is the reason why there has to be healing initiated by the Department of Justice.
We have known for a long time that when the school system came about in the Nunavut communities, we had to be brought to one community, even though we were out there on the land to try to survive through hunting.
We were told to go into one community, and they would shoot our dog teams.
In different communities, there have been a lot of people that have been hurt in their minds because they had to go to court or be in a correctional system and not be given any counselling.
Those are the types of things that the Inuit had to experience, because they didn’t know anything about the laws at that time.
They had to go through the system so many times because they don’t really have an understanding of the laws that they have to follow.
They sometimes take them to the southern institutions; because they don’t know how to speak English, they bring them to the Federal Penitentiaries and they sometimes give up, because they don’t know how to speak to the officials.
I remember in 1959 and the early 60’s, I went down south when I was seven years old.
When I got down there, I did not understand the language and I did not understand their way of doing things.
To me, that was not appropriate.
I am sure that there has been a lot of people that go through the correctional system that feel the same way that I did, especially when they have to go to the Federal Penitentiary.
So therefore, I think that there should be a healing system whereby the Department can provide assistance for the people of Nunavut.
That is all of my comments for today, Mr. Chairman.
I’d just like to make a few comments from the Minister’s opening remarks that he made on Friday.
I am sad to say that the Minister’s opening remarks did not mention anything about a Women’s Facility in Nunavut.
Not even one consideration, nothing as far as this Women’s Facility in Nunavut.
I will say that we have BCC, we have the Utaqqivik, we have Fenbrook, and we have Yellowknife for men, but we have nothing for women in Nunavut.
It is no secret as one of our colleagues would say, some of the inmates that cannot speak English are maybe considered to stay at BCC even though they have a federal sentence.
An example, they may be in jail for over two years, but they are allowed to stay here because they can’t speak English, which is very nice.
I am just wondering when the Minister will start to consider the same rights of women from Nunavut.
I think that he indicated that there are about four women in custody right now.
Four is enough to maybe build a six bedroom house.
I think that the house in Fort Smith or Hay River, wherever that is over there, is only like a house.
Why cannot we have something like that in Nunavut?
It does not have to be like a big jail. It can be like an accommodation/place for women to serve time.
I will be asking further questions on that matter.
I am just saying that if we can have facilities for men in Nunavut, I know that Fenbrook and Yellowknife are not here, but whatever the programs that are needed they go to these places.
If the Department could come up with 11 million, 350 thousand dollars over four years, can we find some money to build, or construct, or renovate a building for women to serve time at their homes and in Nunavut as well?
I would like to say so much about how women are treated and how they should be treated the same as everybody else.
I think that the Department and the Minister understand this.
We have welcomed the Minister to come up to request under the Supplementary Appropriations so that we could consider this.
I am sad to say that it is not even mentioned in his Opening Remarks.
Itsivautaq, Qujannamiik.
I have no other names on my list. We’ll turn the page.
Page 5-6. Detail of capital.
Total headquarters region. 1 million 150 thousand.
Mr. Arvaluk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 1 million and 150 thousand, is that going to be used for architectural purposes?
We’ll have to complete the court building for the end of 2005 and we pay on an annual basis for this building.
We’re aiming for the end of 2005 and if these are agreed to, it’s not just going to be for architectural drawings.
We have looked at all the financial implications for this building and well also have to deal with the land and look at the possible contents of the building and we can possibly prepare the land for the building, possibly this year.
It’s going to be used for architectural purposes as, I’m sure it’s never been started, we’ve never set aside some funds, we probably don’t know how much it’s going to cost for the land, the location, and the architectural design of the building.
We have set aside 10 million dollars for the capital plan but we might go over or under that figure.
Do you have any estimates of what you can do with these 10 million dollars in the building of this courthouse?
We did a feasibility study. We do know that there are a lot of requirements if we’re going to be building, there’s the remand centre, and the other rooms that are required, it’s not going to be under this building.
But we’re probably going to have to do some cost cutting measures but what I mentioned was in the original design.
Chairperson: Arvaluk.  Mr. Arvaluk (interpretation): Thank you.
The Department of Justice has an old system that they’ve been using for quite a long time; the European system for example, we go by the Parliamentary rules and we have dress codes and we have decorations in the House that we have to follow as in the old English tradition, and in the democratic countries, we see beautiful buildings with expensive décor that is pleasant to look at.
Are you looking at a building with the same sophisticated décor with individual washrooms for each room?
What kind of décor are we looking at in this building?
I’m sure it’s not going to be like that because we have limited resources, if there are the basics that will be required in this building, and we’ll use these funds if you agree to it.
I can’t say what kind of design it will be, but it will be looked at by technical people who know what is required in a court building.
Mr. Arvaluk (interpretation): My last question.
The design of this building is going to be closely scrutinized by the people of Nunavut and they’ll be looking at the price tag while this building is going up.
Ms. Williams stated earlier the women of Nunavut do not even have a remand centre or a correctional centre and not even a building that looks like a residential building; they don’t even have that.
But if we build a justice building with all the décor, it’s going to be closely scrutinized by the public out there.
I just wanted to make that additional comment.
That was more of a statement.
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): If we’re on 5-6, it’s 1 million, 150 thousand.
My question is for 5-8, if it’s okay with you.
Chairperson (interpretation): We’re on page 5-6 and we’ll go back to 5-4 afterwards.
I’ll pose my question when we go to 5-8.
Chairperson (interpretation): Questions?
No further questions?
Ms. Williams (interpretation): I apologize.
I have another question, which is a part of Mr. Arvaluk’s comment in regards to the justice centre for Nunavut.
In English, it has a very nice English name, but in Inuktitut we would call it the big justice centre.
I have a question in regards to the architectural drawings.
Is it possible for the regular members to see this design?
And further in the south and in the big cities, usually justice centres in the south have individual washrooms and stuff like that.
What kind of justice centre are we looking at here and would it be possible to see architectural designs once they are completed?
If you want to see the architectural drawings when they are completed, we could do so, because of course everybody wants to see the plans and everything like that.
But of course, it’s going to be a lot smaller than the ones you see down south.
Mr. Arvaluk (interpretation): There’s a question that I missed.
This justice centre is it going to be built and owned by the Government of Nunavut, because sometimes the government leases buildings and takes on a long-term lease.
Is this building going to be owned by the government?
That’s the plan.
Currently and right now, we have a problem with leasing the building because we’d pay approximately 400 thousand per year for the lease costs and at the end of the day, we won’t own it.
So that is why we have set aside 11 million dollars in total so we can own the building instead of leasing it because it’s going to be very expensive.
That’s the plan currently.
Chairman (interpretation): Anything else? Mr. Alakannuark
I have a question, as you mentioned there will be architectural drawings, my question is, where is this new Justice Centre going to be located?
Chairman (interpretation): Mr. Okalik.
It will be here in Iqaluit but we have yet to finalize the location of the building.
This is in the plans for this year and we’ll finalize the location of this building that’s going to be here in Iqaluit.
Chairperson (interpretation): Anything?
I fully support the building of a Courthouse. I know there are other needs in this territory for Women’s Correctional Centres and I fully support that also.
And I wish we had one, a remand centre, but on the issue of a courthouse, we’re probably the only jurisdiction in Canada that doesn’t have our own courthouse as of today, which is a pretty sad state.
We have one hospital and we’re working towards building three.
We have schools, yes we need more correctional facilities but on this correctional facility, I fully support the government building it.
This happens to be the capital, that's good, and I think it’s a step in the right direction but I don’t agree that we should lease it.
I think we should build it and own it so we can have a sign up there that says that finally we got some justice in this territory that reflects this territory.
So those are just some of my comments on a courthouse, I think it’s far too long as a territory.
Even when it was Northwest Territories, we went without a proper court facility, especially in this community where I think we are renting right now and I’ve got to give them a lot of credit for operating in that structure because we took a visit and I think it’s really substandard.
So I fully support the construction of the new courthouse in Nunavut based on your plans.
However 11 million sounds like a lot of money but I know of, if we had to build a courthouse that we probably need for the next fifty years, it’ll probably be 20 million.
So I fully support the construction and the government paying for this courthouse and not leasing it.
Chairman (interpretation): If you wanted to respond.
It was just a comment so it’s okay if we don’t answer.
Chairman (interpretation): Mr. McLean.
Mr. McLean: No insult to the fine capital city of Iqaluit, but when you’re constructing this new courthouse, don’t build it down on the flats please; will you commit to that?
I can’t respond to that at this time because we haven’t finalized the location of the building but it will be here.
But we will keep you updated on the progress, as time goes.
Ms Williams (interpretation): I have another question.
Is the federal government making a contribution to the building of this Justice Centre? Because of course we have federal inmates who go through the courts and we have our agents working up here.
Is the federal government going to be making contribution to this building?
We have raised that more than once, and I have had meetings with my federal counterparts, and I have asked them but they have yet to help us out.
We’ll have to proceed on our own at this point.
But I’m sure the federal government will take some of the offices, Federal Justice and the prosecutors will house their offices in that same building and I’m sure that we can lease some of the offices.
The present courthouse always seems inadequate.
It’s way down there on the shore.
The subsistence hunters, it would be more appropriate if we had the hunters build their houses there and the Justice building be built up there in the hills.
That’s in the plans, and we’re very limited on land here.
I just wanted to say that if there are no lots, there are lots of lots in my community.
He responded to part but I wonder if he can repeat his response in regards to the federal funding.
The people who are not Nunavut employees, like the prosecutors, will you be billing them on a monthly basis for rent?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Yes, Mr. Chairman, since the building will be our own and we will have to house the offices of those prosecutors, they will have to pay their lease or operating and maintenance costs.
Detail of Capital. Justice.
Total headquarters region, 1 million, 150 thousand.
Chairperson (interpretation): Total tangible assets. 1 million, 150 thousand.
Chairperson (interpretation): Turn the page. 5-8.
Detail of Capital. Corrections and Community Justice, Headquarters Region.
Total Headquarters Region.
Do they have any plans for a female offenders' facility? Because when they are tried here in Iqaluit they have to wait in the cells, which also house people who are drunk. The families who wish to visit them have a hard time since they don’t have guards available all the time.
For that reason, I want to know if there have been any plans to build a female offenders’ facility.
Yes, that’s a good concern, we are in the planning stages as to how we can get a facility after we have identified what we want to do.
We’ve been thinking about the one we use here in Iqaluit, it could be sort of a half way house, for both females and males but they would have different cells, that’s what we’ve been considering doing.
It is very nice to hear a response like that, but we haven’t seen anything on paper.
We have given our concerns that we wanted it to be one of the priorities.
I wonder if the Minister can tell us when we can see it on paper?
We have been planning this year that it would be outside of Iqaluit.
After we have identified where then we will get into more detailed planning.
On the Regional Community Correctional Facility, is that for all three regions, or is that just one region?
Hon. Paul Okalik: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. At this point we can keep an open mind, but we are probably looking for one facility at this time.
We will see as time goes because currently the system that we have now needs to be improved with the inmates that are in a centre outside the territory, we want to try and consolidate that to one facility.
What we are planning to do is make a decision of the locale of the facility at this time.
I have listened to my colleague from Gjoa Haven and my colleague from Kugluktuk expressing their concerns numerous times in the House about the need for a facility over in their regions.
I am hoping that when you are doing your planning that you are considering that part of the territory for a change.
They have had some really strong issues and some tragedies that have happened.
They were very forceful.
It is unfortunate that they are not here today because we would hear from them again and again.
I am just saying that when you are doing your consideration for another facility, consider one over in the western part of the territory that really, really needs it.
That is all that I have.
I have heard that many times.
That will be part of that evaluation and we have one proposal that we have received and it is still active from that part of the territory.
I just want to make a comment because my community is also interested in having such a facility.
The Kitikmeot and the Kivalliq are very close to our western counterparts so they have good facilities over there.
I want all the communities in Nunavut to be considered that are interested.
To date we have heard of only one community who wishes to get a correctional facility.
I am pretty sure that we will get more requests and the Health and Social Services Minister is trying to come up with a detox centre.
We are more in the planning stage of the Department of Justice.
We know that some inmates can get very unhappy especially around Christmas and towards the New Year.
Here in Iqaluit, if there was to be a riot or some incident at the Correctional Centre, do they provide adequate RCMP if there was a strike or if the guards or wardens were to go on strike?
There has been a concern for example in Arctic Bay that there have been only two police officers on occasion
I wonder if that has been considered in considering where the location would be. Because a lot of things that are attached will have to be considered if they want to put in a place or they can identify if they’ll have more inmates who will need more healing.
I wonder if the Minister can respond to this?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Yes, Mr. Chairman.
We don’t want to see anything dangerous arise.
We don’t want to see anything like that; we want to be prepared for anything, and we will try and work out these details.
But we sort of have gone through the scenarios if the guards were on strike, so they’re also considered an essential service for the government.
Those are not the only ones that we should consider and we will be talking with the federal government minister to see if they’ll help us.
Just following up on my colleague’s earlier comments regarding the facilities for women in remand; I know when the minister and staff met with the standing committee that was an issue that we raised there.
At that time we indicated that the committee would be more than happy to see something to address this issue immediately brought forward in one of the many Supplementary Appropriations that the government made.
Because this is something that we do not have adequate facilities for right now, I’m just wondering if this is what you indicated looking at a regional organization or something in the works being done right now to immediately address this problem in the interim.
Yes, I have considered the comments and found the comments very helpful in terms of planning and what we can consider at this time.
What I have mentioned is that we are looking for facilities outside of Iqaluit and that the current facility, that is the correctional facility here in Iqaluit, could perhaps be used as a remand facility for both men and women with them being separated so all the resources could be placed in that facility that we use right now.
So that is what we are looking at; I think that we’re focused right now on trying to create a separate facility at this time.
So we’d like to focus on this so we can make some progress on this unfortunate issue.
Mr. Chairman I can appreciate the minister’s response.
This new facility we don’t even know where it’s going to be yet, and in the meantime there’s absolutely nothing for female prisoners in remand.
I’m just wondering if the minister would be willing to do something in the meantime.
You know whether to just be able to, you know do minor capital modifications to existing RCMP cells or something like that; something that won’t require millions of dollars to do.
If there is something that can adequately address this need that’s right there right now.
What we’re trying to do is trying to make things happen and it is often difficult when you have twenty different priorities to focus on one issue that you want to implement.
So what we are trying to do is accomplish both at the same time and to divert ourselves from this target that we’re trying to put forward will only set us back.
We’re trying to focus on setting up a new mass facility for both men and women and at the same time, addressing the correctional needs that are desperately needed in the territory as a whole.
So I guess that the Minister is indicating they’re not prepared to do anything to accommodate or to ensure that we have adequate facilities for remand of our female prisoners until such time as a new correctional facility is constructed.
As I said, we’re trying to get this done as soon as we can and that will be our focus when we go in twenty different directions that tends to slow us down.
So we’re trying to divert all of our energies at this time to creating a facility for both men and women so that we’ll have an adequate facility for everyone.
I guess women in remand will just have to wait and go into the existing RCMP cells that are very degrading; they don’t have any privacy or anything like that.
So, I guess you know, it’s unfortunate that we can’t do anything to accommodate them in the meantime and that wouldn’t take a whole lot of work to do, I’m sure.
I’m sorry to hear that; I’m disappointed.
Mr. Chairman, my next question, I guess, is dealing with the facilities.
The Minister had indicated that they only had one community expressing interest in housing such a facility.
Has the Minister given any thought to other possible locations?
You know, like we have Little Cornwallis Island, the mine that has all of the infrastructure in that place that’s currently shut down.
You know, would there be a possibility of looking at a facility in a location such as where they have existing infrastructure, you know, already?
As I said, we haven’t closed any doors yet.
What we would like to do is work with communities that want it.
To deal with getting a prison is a very serious matter.
Whichever community gets a prison will have to live with the potential after-effects.
Here in Iqaluit we end up with people that nobody else wants in their communities because they get out of jail and they stay.
So most of those consequences come with a jail and I would hope that people that want a jail will give that serious thought.
As for Cornwallis Island, I believe there’s no facility up there, it was decommissioned, all previous works were planned to be removed, and there’s no current infrastructure that would perhaps accommodate the needs of a facility.
First of all, I would like to ask a question.
Only if they build the correctional facility, there will be a women’s remand centre?
Is my understanding correct?
Yes, as part of that process, what we’re doing is looking for a remand centre for women because at this time, we only have a male remand centre at the correctional facility at BCC, and we want to build a centre for people awaiting trail to be remanded there.
The women’s remand centre has to be built soon.
Is there any way that we can have an emergency room for women on remand?
I think it should be, I don’t think it’s appropriate for those women on remand to be in the same cell as drunken people.
That is just a comment but if this could be treated as priority it would be good.