EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Mr. Speaker, I would also like to add that for the most part they are form letters, but one nurse, Mr. Speaker, hand wrote something in here that I would like to read.
It says, "I will not stay if I don't get travel warrants with children the costs are too high."
Deputy Speaker (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Tootoo.
Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills Item number 17, motions.
Item number 18, first reading of Bills.
Bill 16 – An Act to Amend the Property Assessment and Taxation Act – First Reading
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I move seconded by the honourable member from Iqaluit East, that Bill 16, An Act to Amend the Property Assessment and Taxation Act be read for the first time.
Deputy Speaker (interpretation): The motion is in order.
Bill 16 has been read for the first time.
Chaired by Mr. Iqaqrialu.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you members.
Let us get back to order.
On Friday we were dealing with the Department of Education and their business plan.
We also heard the minister's opening remarks on Friday.
If he has any witnesses with him he will make an introduction.
Can the minister indicate whether he wants to make his opening remarks again or have his witnesses with him in the witness stand.
Hon. James Arvaluk (interpretation): I'm sorry, I already made my opening remarks on Friday if there are no questions being posed and nobody wants to make any comments then that is the way we can go about it.
If they start asking me questions then I will want my witnesses at the witness stand with me.
But before they ask me any questions I will stay in my seat.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Arvaluk, Minister for Education.
I welcome the opportunity to give introductory remarks as we begin debate of the Main Estimates for Education as Chairman of the standing committee on Culture, Education and Health.
Our members have taken great interest in matters of education and very much support the Bathurst Mandate which listed Education and Housing as two priorities for the government.
The Standing Committee has met with the Minister on a number of occasions over the last year and has issued two reports with recommendations.
I would like to thank the Minister for acting on our recommendations to extend the consultation period on the draft Education Bill to ensure that more Nunavummiut have an opportunity to provide input on such an important matter.
Members have supported the dissolution of the District Education Councils and look forward to the local District Education Authorities having a stronger role in education.
Members have also supported the decentralization plans and look forward to the day when the education positions are established in their new home communities in Nunavut.
In terms of the Main Estimates once again, we have requested and support the Government plans for a much more comprehensive budget process so that members will have materials well in advance to properly review them.
While the Standing Committee had the opportunity to review the draft business plans and capital plans in February and March of this year during our fairly extensive discussions with the minister and his officials, we are disappointed that there are no changes to either document to reflect the concerns raised by members during those meetings.
In particular members shared concerns about a number of community schools which need renovation or additional space and to deal with problems of overcrowding and lack of adequate facilities such as gyms and deteriorating heating plant and other health and safety issues which sometimes require school closures.
We also questioned the addition of larger gyms and heritage facilities in other projects when these pressing needs are not able to be met.
Committee members were also disappointed that the capital plans were not adjusted in this regard.
Over the last few years, members have expressed many concerns about funding for Early Childhood Education, special needs students, the pupil teacher ratio, Inuktitut language education, trades and apprenticeship programs, libraries and other matters that will be raised during the debates over the next few weeks.
Members are also concerned about income support programs which many people in our communities depend on for their basic needs.
Our Standing Committee notes that the department has re-organized its delivery of income support in an effort to train local workers and have more community involvement.
As well, the department has initiated an income support review and members look forward to the results of this consultation with Nunavummiut.
Committee members look forward to a spirited discussion over the next few weeks and I would like to note that the Standing Committee on Culture, Education and Health will prepare and table a report with recommendations before the final vote on the appropriations Bill.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Nutarak, Chairman of the Standing Committee on Culture, Education and Health.
These opening remarks came from his committee so if the Minister of Education is prepared to answer questions, he and his witnesses can go to the witness stand and the members of the House will raise questions.
Hon. James Arvaluk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairperson.
Yes, I want my witnesses Deputy Minister Bob Moody and Assistant Deputy Minister Naullaq Arnaquq to join me.
I would like to ask a question if you let me Mr. Chairman.
There are 6 officials from my department they are Ian Rose, Nancy Hyland, Murray Horn, David Claude, Arctic College, Sandy Teiman, income support programs.
I am wondering if they can stand here to be prepared to answer some questions, more detailed questions.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Minister of Education, yes your officials can stand by.
The minister indicated that he wanted to have his officials stand by and answer some tough questions.
Thank you Mr. Minister and staff.
According to the minister's request to have his officials seated nearby, usually the staff members do not sit at the witness stand, but since we are in Nunavut and we are a new government I was prepared to let him take his staff there with him.
However, this is not our standard so we are learning our rules so if the minister is prepared now he can make his introduction of the members so we can record them.
On my right is my Deputy Minister Bob Moody and on my left Assistant Deputy Minister Naullaq Arnaquq.
Furthest from my left, Connie Brown our finance officer; Ian Rose is right beside her the Director of Policy and Planning; seated next to him is Sandy Teiman Income Support Programs Director; and Murray Horn Director of Corporate Services. David Claude is also in the House, he is with Arctic College with the finance department and beside him is Nancy Hyland who is with Arctic College, Director of Adult Learning and Post Secondary Services.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you minister for your introduction.
At this time we are open for comments or questions to the Department of Education.
If there are any questions at this time you can now start.
I would like to ask some questions about the information that has been provided.
Maybe I will speak in English.
Why don't they use a simple term for parent teacher ratios.
I think there should be simpler terms when they start distributing funds to the communities.
I just want to ask the minister why they are still using old terminology.
Maybe I can answer the question.
Yes we took over some of the GNWT's Department of Education criteria when it came to parent teacher ratios.
We have adopted some of the terms that were handed down to us form the GNWT's Department of Education.
We are reviewing all the aspects of education's mandates to try to use some simpler terms for the public, because we received some input when it came to education.
There were many communities that asked to see if the principal would also be a part of the teachers to take on classes in the school to relieve some of the overcrowding.
Therefore, we stated maybe after July 1 we would contact the local education councils for their input in this important matter.
So, we will be involving all the communities and the local education authorities.
Mr Chairman, in the Minister of Finance's budget address it highlighted quite an area on education.
In there he talked about what I believe was 400 thousand dollars for the development of the Inuktitut curriculum and 1.2 million dollars for increasing teachers and another 1.5 somewhere else.
Anyway, I remember it totalled up to 3.1 million dollars of new initiatives for the department.
As I indicated earlier in the session, the O&M dollars have only gone up 534 thousand dollars.
Maybe you can ask the minister to inform us as to where the dollars are coming from for these new initiatives.
What programs are being cut as a result of that.
Mr. Minister or whoever wants to answer that question you are free to do so.
The question the member is asking about 1.2 million dollars, is on the new teaching positions.
The 400 thousand dollars is for Inuktitut curriculum development, which we talked about earlier in the session.
In that 400 thousand dollars, in the Phase 1 part we will be doing design and development, research with elders in Arviat for 67 thousand dollars.
We will have two focus meetings with Inuit educators.
That will be another 4 thousand dollars and design work for 86 thousand dollars.
Theme development for 120 thousand and the editing, which is another 3 thousand and material production, theme units, tapes, etc., etc, will be about 30 thousand dollars.
This initiative will reflect in about 2.8 million dollars in a general increase for the O&M in the Department of Education and the balance of that the member is talking about is from very small reductions from all over part of the education programs.
So then any place that we see a reduction in there like for example 31 thousand dollars for day care subsidies funding is coming out to go into that particular project or is it the 400 thousand or the total 3.1 coming out of all those projects.
You went into detail on one project only and not the total 3.1 million dollars.
So is the total 3.1 million dollars coming from other programs within the department entirely.
Minister for Education.
Yes, and income support.
Okay, let's take day-care for example.
There was approximately a 30 thousand dollar reduction in the budget.
That is because there was a rollover from last year.
Using the old formula contribution or distribution of the funds to the day care centres across Nunavut, under the previous GNWT formula system, there was unspent money.
That was why last year I wrote a letter to all the day care centres inviting them to write me a one page proposal, and offering immediate help for 5 – 10 thousand dollars.
We also initiated a quick study on the financing or funding requirements for the day care centres, and I would like to get this interim report by April 30.
Maybe a final report by the end of May so that we will create a funding system for day care systems that is more relevant to Nunavut.
The old method of contributions to day care centres is still from the GNWT and there were some funding rules under that.
The other reductions were from income support and I stated in my opening remarks yesterday that because we have changed the community based income support system, the payments, like in Iqaluit, to the department with other initiatives and looking at other alternatives for income support, we were able to reduce the expenditure in that area.
So that was one reduction and there were some other small reductions all over because we didn't have really any other section of the department's budget especially in the area of salaries and forced growth, and the students enrolments in the communities.
So where we found the amounts to get this total is in very small amounts in many places, and I do not know exactly where all of them are.
Most of them are very small, to make up that total amount.
Mr. Chairman, I will get back to the rollover of funds for day cares later.
Also, on the 1.2 million dollars for new teachers and new teaching positions I believe is that is what that is for.
Hon. James Arvaluk: Yes Mr. Chairman.
That is for the new teachers, 1.2 is for the new teachers for the extraordinary growth and the demand to skip…audio unavailable…
Mr. Chairman, I remember last year having the same questions.
Is the 1.2 to be put to new additional teachers above and beyond the ones that we have right now in the schools in Nunavut.
This is an increase enrolment in school.
It requires additional funding to maintain current people teacher ratio.
Funding provided is for salary dollars for new teachers, resource materials for students.
Additional student supplies for schools.
Mr. Chairman maybe I can ask minister or his staff.
If they know exactly the number of teachers we have in Nunavut right now.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Mr. Tootoo.
Hon. James Arvaluk: Mr. Chairman I am not exactly sure.
I think we have around 725 teachers.
We could get that exact number if you needed. If you want.
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you Mr. Chairman maybe I will ask this last question.
I will take a break for a little while and let some of the members ask questions.
When the minister is getting the number of teachers, could I ask could it also show the specifically for Iqaluit.
In there the number of teachers that are actually in the schools right now based on the formula and everything in here, is that 1.2 million on top of all the teachers we have right now as he has indicated.
Hon. James Arvaluk: We can ask the Divisional Board of Education for Baffin region to give us that number.
I can not guarantee that but we will ask for that information.
When we get it yes, we will supply that Thank you.
You indicated that was your final question.
From 1999-2000 and 2000-2001 fiscal year under the income support program according to last year’s figures there was 2.6 million allocated for that division.
Now I see it is now 2 million for this new fiscal year.
I see a reduction and we have many people that are depended on this.
Does this reflect the number that depend on these programs have declined.
I said briefly that what we are doing now is reviewing the income support programs.
Some people often are not actually dependent, they can apply for unemployment or use other options but because those people that are dependent on income support assistance.
I know he wants an answer but I think I will defer the question to my assistant.
As to whether that is the actual case, I will defer my question to my official.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Minister of Education.
The Minister has deferred his question for his official to respond on his behalf.
I believe his name is Mr. Moody.
Mr. Moody: The member is referring on page 9-1-3.
These numbers actually do not relate at all to payments to clients.
These numbers relate to monies in support of the Headquarters. This does not affect the monies that are available for clients.
It is headquarter money.
For example, the staff that run the policy shop here in Iqaluit.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Moody.
I am asking that question because I was wondering if I would be able to get a response for people who are on income support.
In the fiscal year 2000-2001 do the amounts remain the same.
Has it decreased, has it increased.
Can I get a response to that question.
I was getting a quick briefing.
I am told we do not have very much space right now.
We have a lot of paper that we have to work with.
But anyway, I understand that the number of people that are dependant on the income support programs remain the same.
For example although the population numbers have increased, the people dependent on assistance have not increased.
There has been a slight increase under this program.
What we are trying to say is this; people who are already employed have increased in number.
They are less dependent on social assistance.
Mr. Kattuk (interpretation): Thank you Chairman.
Further to my question.
This is concern I have had for a while in the House under the housing assistance program.
People are having a hard time keeping up with their mortgage payments.
I have talked about the different expenses that keep getting inflated.
I wonder if a person who has trouble paying for his utilities would be able to receive temporary income support.
Because I know of instances where people have not been able to come up with their utility payments then what they have to do is ask their relatives or their family members to supplement their income.
Are they able to come to your department for assistance temporarily.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Minister of Education.
For those people who have homeownership if they put in an application for higher learning or for upgrading or for carving training whatever what might help to assist in their income.
They would be eligible to receive income support from us if they are willing to take on jobs or training.
We expect that the social assistance programs, which I mentioned about two weeks ago, will be reviewed.
We will be looking forward to finding out the recommendations and we plan to table a report based on the income support review and how best we can implement the recommendations we receive from the review.
There has to be a comprehensive review done.
If a person wants social assistance, you have to find out if he is willing to look for work in the interim and that changes his eligibility.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Minister of Education, Mr. Kattuk.
The example that I cited earlier that person is actually employed and has a good job but his salary is not adequate for him to keep up with the necessary payments for his basic needs.
When you total his living expenses they over extend his incoming salary.
And a lot of the time his pay cheque is gone before he can finish his payments and this happens to many people who are employed.
I think we know that sometimes they need temporary assistance, which is why I brought that up as an example.
Hon. James Arvaluk (interpretation): I do not hear a question.
But I know exactly where the member is coming from and I believe we all know that when you start working when you have a permanent job you usually owe for mortgages and so on.
I do not know giving support working people but anyone could approach Social Services.
The social worker would do an assessment on the person.
I am sure the reply would be according to the policies that are followed by social services.
I think that this would be my last comment and question.
Usually when you live in a community, you know who received income support and who they are working for.
Of course, they usually follow the policies when they give income support to families.
Has there been a decrease in the monthly allowances that are given out to the people and what is the ceiling of the salaries where they would be considered the eligible for income support.
We follow the same policy so we have to do an assessment or review to see whether the levels and the educational financial support given to them are still adequate in today’s cycle.
When the review is probably done in fall they will come up with recommendations which will be given to my department.
All I can say today is that we are still following the GNWT policies on income support.
Before we go onto another item, we will take a five minute break.
Chairperson (interpretation): Are there any questions.
Mr. Chairman as I indicated earlier.
The total of operations & maintenance for Education is gone up 540 thousand dollars.
After listening to the Minister of Finance’s budget address, I believe it was also at the minister’s opening remarks indicated as savings of 500 thousand dollars for this year as a result of the dissolution of the divisional boards.
Mr. Chairman, do your math that is 34 thousand new dollars put into the Department of Education on operations & maintenance.
I myself am pretty disappointed to see that that is all there is Mr. Chairman in light of the fact that the again in the Bathurst Mandate, and every member, said this is our number 1 priority.
One of the top 2 priorities of this government is Education.
I do not see that personally as an expense, it is an investment.
You know if we can develop an Education system that can foster and develop young children into young adults and to people that can be productive members of our Territory that is going to save us money in the long run.
May be Mr. Chairman if I just asked is the Minister if the department had did they put forward more than in a preliminary stages asking for more funding from what they have or I just wondering if they did that or not.
We are just one part of the membership of the cabinet and the government.
We know that there is so much that can go around through different departments.
I think we can be very positive in the department of education that the budget is up 2.8 million and 8.5 million dollars in capital.
You know that’s double from previous year.
I believe this is a good budget for the education and for the government.
Although the member is right, we all wanted more for our own department.
Especially the education but there is only so much to go around.
I am optimistic that with our 1.2 million provided for additional teachers and 400 thousand for Inuktitut curriculum it will help us in the long run.
Mr. Chairman the minister indicated 2.8 million dollar increase in the total overall budget of the department.
Mr. Chairman, I understand through some questions that I had asked earlier during the session the school in Cambridge Bay is about 8 million of that capital budget that the department is putting forward. Out of that the majority, I was not given an exact number but the majority of those funds are going to result through an insurance claim.
So if you take that project out Mr. Chairman.
I mean if you take that project out that is being covered by insurance, you have a decrease in capital of well over 2 million dollars from the previous year.
Again, I just wanted to state for the record that I am not very happy with the numbers coming forward like that.
You can paint numbers however you like and to make it look good.
But you know the fact of the matter is 34 thousand new dollars and a reduction in capital taken out of a new major project that is covered by insurance.
To me I am very disappointed in that and you know I just do not how that can comply with what we all said is our top priority.
I guess it is somewhat late to do anything about that now.
But I sure hope that everyone in here and the rest of his colleagues, I understand that he is one member of cabinet but that this priority every single one of us has said was a priority.
Also the Minister of Finance indicated earlier to me that last week I believe that there had been indeed a concerted effort to ensure additional resources into the two priorities areas.
You know looking at the budget this one and the other ones.
It looks to me a lot like status quo budget from previous years.
Which again is disappointing.
But getting back to this 1.2 million dollars the minister had indicated.
How many new teachers is that going to put in Nunavut.
I will not comment on the general comments because that is the member’s comments.
That 1.2 million will bring about 14 new teachers.
Mr. Tootoo any further comments.
I can appreciate those comments were not mainly for the minister but for everyone to hear.
Twelve to fourteen teachers have those been allocated.
Have there been any allocations for where the teaching positions are going to be.
I will ask Mr. Moody to answer that question.
Mr. Moody: That process has begun.
The allocation we have requested of our three divisional education councils to provide us with the latest information available on extraordinary enrolments and together with the education councils and our own staff, we are going to reach agreements in the next couple of weeks on how to allocate those dollars.
Our plan is Mr. Chairman that the boards will know where those positions will go before the end of April.
That has not been done to my knowledge this early ever before.
But it will do much benefit to get that information out now rather than wait until October or November.