EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
I want this, especially in my constituency, to be looked at where the minister to work to check on this.
I know that he is aware of that and I truly believe that he is doing everything he can to provide housing.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Alagalak.
I would like to first start off, according to what I’ve learned, when they first provided houses to the Inuit in the communities we were told by government to come and settle in a community, in one community so we can provide you with housing and you will not be obligated to pay anything except the $32, and because we were told that, I’ve never forgotten it and I will continually bring this up.
Up to date, there are people going through great difficulty in getting units, especially in my constituency.
I was told in one case, though he was a home owner, his family were going through a hard time. They were ready to give up because it feels like they are being evicted by the housing corporation.
As Mr. Barnabas stated earlier, they can’t qualify for social housing, and there are bills that are piling up and in a circumstances like that, their hands are tied. The way I understand it, they are going through very difficult times.
Maybe in the future, we as the legislative assembly, as law makers for Nunavumiut and to Inuit should consider what action to take.
I will be raising questions later on.
I would like to make a comment.
On social housing, we know there is a shortage.
It is not to say that nothing is being done.
But, everybody is working hard and the local housing authorities go through great difficulty and people should recognize and realize that.
A lot of times, their hands are tied because, especially for fuel, electricity, municipal services, the funding that they do get is usually behind the budget.
They seem to fall behind because their budgets are not dealt with at the appropriate time.
A lot of times, they don’t pay for their water, electricity or municipal services because the budget is not dealt with and there are a lot of people on the waiting list in Clyde River.
Even though the actual names are not that long, there is still the same number of people who want housing because they know that there won’t be any.
Some of them end up waiting 10 years or more.
Maybe a majority of them have to wait that long who has applied for social housing.
And, what Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated and the Housing Corporation are trying to do, we are in full support of they are trying to do on the Action Plan.
If they can physically get those houses, I am sure that people would be much happier, if this comes through the federal government because this has a social impact on the people.
Lastly, the Elders’ Facility in Clyde River is appreciated.
It would be a good model for other communities.
The tenants are there now and it is almost in full operation.
If you go to our community, make sure that you check on this Elders’ Facility.
I just have a few comments on the Housing Corporation.
In Nunavut we have a lot of people who are on the waiting list and they have been on the waiting list for many years, in just about all the communities.
We all know that a lot of houses are full with family members and friends.
When that happens, you know that there is a lack of space and that is when they start talking to each other in not a good way.
That can create a lot of problems in the house.
Not too long ago, too, one of my constituents just came up to me they were going to be evicted from public housing because their income was too much.
I am not too happy about that because there are a lot of people who owe a lot of money too.
People who are making money out of drugs and bootlegging, I think those people should be looked at first before anybody who makes more money in a good way working to keep their families happy, the Housing Corporation should be happy with them and keep them in housing.
Start thinking about the bootleggers and the drug dealers who are making money out of these things.
A lot of people are not very happy about that.
Mr. Chairman, I will be asking questions on these issues.
I would like to thank the minister and his staff for showing up to this Committee of the Whole.
I would like to make a brief general comment too.
First of all I would like to thank the members and the Deputy Chairman for the Infrastructure, Housing and Economic Development Standing Committee.
Mr. Peterson’s opening comments yesterday, last winter while I was away the Standing Committee met with the minister.
I would like to thank the Standing Committee members for meeting with the minister.
The issue that I wanted to raise in my general comments is that I know that the Housing Corporation has a policy for the allocation of housing to the communities.
They also prioritize the communities that are in the highest need.
The responsibilities are huge and the manager and the district managers are working by themselves.
I’m not happy too about it because they work internally and it seems like they are not considering the recommendations of the Members of the Legislative Assembly.
While we were reviewing the Capital Estimates, we heard that in some communities the Local Housing Authorities, for example, are not in a deficit situation.
I think it’s been over five years since they have never allocated units to Rankin Inlet and the Local Housing Organization is operating without a deficit and they require further training.
Some communities that are operating without a deficit, it seems like they’re being penalized.
It seems like all the concerns that we raised are not being respected.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to point out further that the Local Housing Organizations are getting under the umbrella of the municipality, like my colleague from Cambridge Bay’s questions.
If they have Maintenance Service, I’ll be asking questions in regards to that.
It seems like the Government of Nunavut has off loaded the responsibilities to the communities, and the municipalities don’t really want to take on the responsibilities but they have no choice but to take on the responsibility.
If they’re going to do that, the training budget, I don’t think there is a training budget line item for housing staff.
It should be expanded.
The manager, the human resources and the personnel have to be qualified.
At times they are fired for literally no reason.
So, I’m asking for an expansion of training for human resources and the staff of LHO and we have to encourage the staff.
It has to be ongoing training.
The property management is changing whether it be plumbing, electrical or mechanical, they require adequate training.
And in some communities the municipalities, if the LHO is operating efficiently, they could probably be construction managers because they have good staff for labour only contracts.
If we did it that way, there would be more Inuit in the job force.
And if you tried to get lowest paid in Housing Corporation, some of the Inuit don’t get into the workforce.
It seems like they just want to make a profit.
We have been told that they have to comply with the NNI Policy and that’s why the cost has gone up and the bid prices go up.
When they hire Inuit, I would tell you that if you can get that I then would like to get the Local Housing Organization to do the construction and to hire Inuit, it would be cheaper than a regular construction company because the regular construction companies’ bids are too high.
Two years in a row in Rankin Inlet, the construction contract has been cancelled.
During the First Legislative Assembly, there was a budget for labour side and there were over $200,000 they bid.
If you can take their ideas and turn them into policy, that way there will be more Inuit employed and trained.
We could say because they will always be there (interpretation ends) they are not going to run away and they are not going to move away. (interpretation) So please provide training on capital training basic construction management that is required.
So, if you do it that way, it would be more effective between the regions.
I would urge you to reconsider these and perhaps you have to check some of your staff to see if they are qualified and the President when his term is up and unable to address this rather than having a political appointment for the President it should go through the competition.
That way, we can get qualified individuals with technical skills.
I’m going to be asking questions in regards to that and I will be seeking support.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Curley.
I no more names on my list for general comments.
Move on to L-6 to L-12.
If you have any questions from those pages?
Mr. Curley: I’m going to put now with some of the questions.
Maybe the minister and the President could explain to us exactly how the housing allocation policy works in the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
In viewing the fact that we have 27 or so communities, how is this allocation of housing, or is it by the year, is it year to year? Who makes the choices, decisions and recommends the ones that are worth considering for this coming construction season?
For instance, will they decide it?
If we look at the units that have been constructed in the communities. Either in two communities or three communities they allocate the units to all the communities of Nunavut in the past years.
And in listening to the recommendations by the Local Housing Organizations, and the members were stating that when you are just allocating to the communities we were asked to review the allocation of the units to the communities.
In the second year for 2005-2006 construction seasons, we started reviewing the communities that are in greater need.
We based them on the aboriginal people population increase and how many people are sleeping in one room and the number of dependents living in the house who are aboriginal.
We also look at the number of people living in a unit.
That way we can identify quickly in Kitikmeot the population has been increasing very rapidly.
I cannot tell you how long we will be using the term for but we always have time to make changes.
We have identified how many units will be built and we had to get them approved by the Members and the Cabinet before we submit them to the Legislative Assembly.
I would like to ask the President of the Housing Corporation why it was strictly a criteria of overcrowding, which to me means only where the largest concentration of families, families with large children, in spite of other needs in the community that may have less family members in their community but have a large waiting list of people who are looking for accommodation.
Just broadly, the demographics are pretty much probably with the needs would translate the same thing; more housing needed in, even the communities that don’t have a large family gathering in these communities, like some communities that we have in Nunavut.
Why one set of rules now because some other community will really never attain that because of their choice of not having of large family.
The way the units were allocated for this year was based on four different factors that the minister has indicated in there, which are statistics from two different sources.
It is reflective of the overcrowding situation in particular communities.
Using other indicators, such as the large waiting lists; we know that Arviat has a 130 people on the waiting list.
We know that Rankin Inlet has got quite a few on the waiting list as well.
Iqaluit, a much larger community has got almost half of what Arviat has on their waiting list.
That doesn’t mean that there is less overcrowding here; it means that there are less people who are eligible on the waiting list.
Waiting lists are not a viable way of determining what the need of the community; what the level of overcrowding is in the community.
There are too many variable factors involved in that.
As far as future allocations go, at this point we don’t know right now what we will have to deliver for 2006/07 but we are certainly more than open to any ideas or suggestions from the Floor; from the members; from the communities as to how we can more fairly allocate units to communities.
Again a question from the President of the Housing Corporation, comments that you normally receive from the Members of the House.
I know it is quite important that we simply go along with what you recommend.
Certainly, other communities like large communities, here in Iqaluit for instance, where employees are working for government, their numbers are options.
Some communities strictly don’t have that.
We don’t have all those options in smaller places or regions that don’t have a large concentration of private houses being constructed.
So I would like to get an idea whether or not the points that the Members of the Legislative Assembly raised, are they taken into consideration one way or another at all?
Chairman: Mr. Scott.
Any input; any ideas put forward to us by members, their ideas and inputs is well received by us.
I’ve had some very good dialogue over the last year with various members of the House with suggestions on how we can improve delivery and improve services and we’re more than open to suggestions.
Well I appreciate that offer.
Certainly it is important because many of us have felt for a long time, but it is a bit pointless to make any recommendations to the Housing Corporation.
I would like to ask the president whether or not he has a long term allocation plan for Nunavut.
Is it year to year? Is it five years?
What are the factors that are there?
Does it depend on the Cabinet or is it just rolling along with a long term plan as a need for taken into consideration the factors that you mentioned.
Right now the Corporation follows the government’s capital planning process.
At this point, not even knowing how much capital we’ll have for 2006/07, or 2007/08, we can’t do much planning beyond a one year planning horizon because we don’t do our capital budgets until the fall.
That’s when it’s determined what we’ll get and how many units we can deliver and it will be decided as to where the units will go for 2006/07.
Mr. Curley: Can the President clarify exactly what he means by government’s planning process, so the Housing Corporation does not have as an independent crown corporation their own capital allocation process given the fact that you may get this number of units per year at minimum.
Could you explain to us exactly what you mean by government planning process?
The capital planning process within government and we get our capital allocations through that process.
It starts usually in the summer months.
We had given our capital targets with which to develop our Capital Plan and our Capital Budget for the next year.
So, sometime this summer we’ll get our targets.
We’ll develop our Capital Plan from there.
We have other programs.
That out of the capital that we have to deliver, we try to protect up to $10 million of whatever capital we do get for improvements to public housing units and we have homeownership programs.
Generally what’s left over after we’ve delivered these other programs is what we’ll have left over for delivery of new capital for construction.
It appears to be to me, quite a small window for a planning process.
I would think you do have a long term planning process.
You said it’s similar to the government planning process.
Does that include a long term range like five years or not?
Based on historical allocations on capital, we can guess at what we might be able to deliver in subsequent years, because it’s tied in with the government capital planning process and there is no guarantee.
We do have a three year Modernization and Improvement Capital Plan where the Local Housing Organizations develop the projects for repair and upkeep of the public housing units but that’s, as I mentioned before, we try to protect as much of that money in our capital budget as possible to keep the upkeep and repairs of existing public housing.
I’d like to ask him again because I am interested in exactly how it works.
Once you have seen the demographics with communities, assuming that you do get them from housing associations, do they have any particular kind of a more professional role in recommending what they need? When that information goes somewhere, where does it go to and who does it go to?
Who makes the final recommendation to some group in the capital planning process?
We are given our capital planning targets to and then we develop our plan from that.
It proceeds up through the system through ICCP (Interdepartmental Committee on Capital Planning) who then vet through all the departmental plans and then proceeds to recommend the departmental Capital Plans through the budget planning system through the Department of Finance.
So my question was when the information is obtained from, assuming local associations had some involvement.
Who do they submit that information to, where does their role come in, in terms of recommending which communities gets certain allocations or do you play or just pass it over to some group in the ICCP?
Mr. Chairman: Thank you. Mr. Scott.
On the M&I Planning, Modernization and Improvement Planning the communities develop their own projects, identify what their priorities are and they come up with a list of priorities whether eight, ten, twelve projects they would like to do per-year.
That is then submitted into each of the district offices which then roll that up into a proposed Capital Plan.
The districts are allocated out of the overall M&I budget in portion relationship to the size and Baffin is going to get twice as much as Kivalliq and Kitikmeot, etc.
And then the district offices then approach each of the projects based upon how far down the priority listing that they can approve based on the funding that becomes available.
Mr. Chairman: Thank you. Mr. Curley.
Mr. Curley: Yes, you did not answer part of my question what role do you play in actually recommending which one should be approved?
Maybe you just get bypassed and it is sent directly to the Minister from the district manager to district approval.
Is there a role at all somewhere that the municipalities, like Mayors, are consulted at all with this kind of allocation process and project allocation planning process?
Mr. Scott: Again, I assume we are still talking about the M&I Project from that, that would only be in the communities where housing is delivered through the municipalities, as the hamlets get involved in developing and identifying projects that are their priorities.
In all the other communities then, it’s all done through the Local Housing Organization through their Board of Directors.
Once you, to some of us there is no difference between how the local renovation projects should go on, or kind of same process as well as the allocation planning process as the housing needs.
Within your allocation process, do you not feel that the Mayors should be consulted at all or do you just hope that the housing associations have discussed that requirement and if not, would you be in favour of the staffing establishing procedure where the community, the municipalities have some say in whether or not their requirements are met and maybe get some recommendations from the communities.
Would that be something that you would be prepared to see happen in the future?
Mr. Scott: With the exception of Iqaluit and what we call the empowered communities, the hamlets that run our housing program, the housing operation is the LHO, directed by a locally elected board of directors and they’re elected by the community to represent the community’s housing interests to the housing corporation.
So, our role is to support the organizations and to deal with the local housing organizations on all housing issues within the municipality and, like I said, except where the municipality deliver the program on our behalf.
Chairperson: Thank you, Mr. Scott.
We’re going to go page by page from L-6 to L-12.
Are there any questions on L-6?
Mr. Peterson: I have a question relating to the minister’s opening comments yesterday.
I was reading the Hansard last night, and the minister made a statement that stood out on page 87 of the Hansard.
"I wish to emphasize that, as long as there is respect to Integrity Act, I am willing to share any and all information with members privately, either one on one as far as standing committee appearances."
As everyone knows, Integrity Act is applicable to Members of the House.
So, I’m wondering what the minister meant.
Perhaps, he can clarify for the record what he meant by his reference to Integrity Act in his opening comments.
The statement that I made in that regard was, I was talking about it in regards to confidential information.
Like, I could look at the stuff from paper with you, with the member.
I would like to apologize to the House and to the members on the statement that I made yesterday in my opening remarks, because I was given two pieces of paper.
The first one had a report that I was going to make to the committee and the other here in the House.
I had the wrong piece of information or the paper that the comments that I made.
Somewhere in between when I had to go and sit at my desk over here, I ended up with the wrong piece of paper.
That was for the information of the committee and there was some additions that had to be deleted.
So, that was what I was reading to the committee that I was reading yesterday.
When I heard it yesterday and when I read it last night, it really concerned me because it was implying that the minister did not trust the members of the House.
I thought, perhaps, that he was insinuating that confidential information he shares with members on an individual basis, or with standing committees would somehow be leaked.
As we all know there are no leaks in the legislative assembly so, that concerns me.
I want to accept the minister’s clarification.
Last November. I submitted a written question asking the minister about staff housing.
The minister responded on December 3rd.
There were two questions I had asked him.
Question four, is, as of November1, 2004, broken down by community, who is the deeded owner each leased unit, and what is the term of each lease.
The Minister’s department responded, "with respect to this information is protected under 17-1 and 24-1 of the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act".
And question 5, what is the monthly cost to the government for each leased unit.
And again, the answer was, "with respect, this information is protected under Section 17-1 and 24-1 of the Access to Information and Privacy Act".
Last summer our standing committee asked some officials from the Community and Government Services if they would table leased information or provide leased information on Government of Nunavut buildings, and their response was that they didn’t see that there would be a problem.
When we asked for this information from the Nunavut Housing Corporation, there does seem to be a problem, so it’s a bit of a conflict in our minds.
I would like to ask the minister why, as the minister, he believes that the amount of public money we spend on housing should be a secret.
I know the circumstance surrounding this specific request.
Also that the responsibility that I hold as the minister responsible is of course to make sure that the dollars are being used accordingly, and also for the protection not only the department, but also the people who we work with.
Where it may be deemed as a conflict of interest, or as an issue under the Act, the specific question that was forwarded to me, does contain information that, because of the low numbers of competitors out there, I felt that the response I would give to my colleague would only be in accordance for the protection of all parties involved.
I took my written question and the minister's response to the written question and I sent it to our Access to Information and Privacy Commissioner and to ask her for a ruling.
Her response to that particular question, question four, she responded in a letter that I tabled this letter a couple of weeks ago in the house. "
The public body can only rely on this section if it can show that the discloser of the information in question will harm the economic interest of the public body.
The onus is on the public body to show this".
Then she goes on to say that, "it is a discretionary decision".