EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
I know there are sometimes specialized programs and I guess maybe that is where the term limited came in.
There is this program that with no place to operate out of.
Where is the Department planning on operating these programs out of?
Hon. Ed Picco: Mr. Chairman, when we talk about detox, we talk about withdrawal management, that is from suffering withdrawal when you are doing the detoxification process.
That is the program.
It has to be in a physical facility.
That does not mean necessarily that we have to build a new facility to do it in.
What we have indicated, Mr. Chairman is that a detox programs will be run and set up in one of our small non-decentralized communities.
And part of the reason why we are investigating that, for example, in your home community, there is a facility, there is a program being run, there is space for unlimited detox.
Your community, Mr. Chairman, is a non-decentralized, have not community.
You have already approached myself and the Premier several weeks ago asking us to look at your community.
So if the facility is already there in your community, then we can run a detox program.
So we don’t necessarily need a Capital Budget to build something when we deliver the program or O&M for detox, we would try to use a facility that is already in place.
As the Premier had indicated, Mr. Chairman, that would be in a non-decentralized community.
I thank the Minister for clarifying that.
The way it was presented in the past it seemed like there was going to be a facility built in a non-decentralized community to provide these programs and apparently that is not going to be the case.
It is going to be using apparently overabundance of facilities that they have in these communities to offer the programs.
I did not hear a question there, Mr. Chairman.
The comment is trying to be a bit facetious.
I would suggest to the Member that no one, the Premier never said that we were building a facility.
And I certainly have never said in the House or in public that the Department of Health and Social Services was building a facility.
What we said was that we were going to deliver a detox program.
That is what we have stated.
We said we would do that in a decentralized community.
For example, Mr. Chairman, if we went out and leased a building for that program, it could be a new building being constructed.
For example, Mr. Chairman, in the Rankin facility and the Cambridge Bay facility there are dedicated beds for limited detox in those facilities for withdrawal management.
That is part of detox.
We have talked about that before, Mr. Chairman, when you look at detoxification, and so on.
There are two ways with treating addictions.
One is withdrawal, it is when someone physically is addicted to a substance or alcohol and they have withdrawal management, you need a dedicated facility and 24/7 coverage.
If you are counselling someone, to help them with issues around addiction, that is a different type of coverage that you can do very well in most of our communities which have Community Wellness Centres, or through the Health Centre itself.
I hope that help clarify the point made by the Member.
We have Pond Inlet, $4.4 million dollars.
I would like further information on whether this for the replacement of the Health Centre or for equipment and other purposes.
The budget for the facility in Pond Inlet is $8.995 million dollars which includes new equipment as well as the total construction costs of the new health centre.
In 2003/2004, in the Capital Estimates, it’s $4.4 and there were monies expended last year and my question is in regards to $4.4 million dollars.
Exactly what is that going to be used for?
Is it for the equipment, furniture, or for the construction of the health facility?
Mr. Chairman, the capital planning process, you usually do them over a two year period on a larger project like this.
So the monies in the 2003/2004, $4.445 million dollars includes the finishing construction of the facility, so the facility is complete.
As the member has indicated, it also includes money for new equipment and so on for the health centre.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): As you stated, it included equipment and so on.
So what are we replacing?
Are we replacing all the beds and extra equipment and everything else?
Are we going to have brand new equipment in this building?
Hon. Ed Picco: On a regular basis Mr. Chairman, we endeavour to replace equipment in a facility.
In this case, we would be replacing the standard equipment that you would find in the health centre.
For example, examination beds, the furniture for the centre itself, X-Ray equipment for example and so on.
So those types of logistic equipment would be replaced as well as some new equipment would be purchased for the lab and so on to facilitate the new centre.
There wouldn’t be much point of moving into a brand new building and having old equipment and old furniture.
That’s the idea of the total budget, so that we have the very best situation for Pond Inlet.
We were at Health and Social Services.
Branch Summary, 10-6, Detail of Capital, Baffin Region.
Total Capital Baffin Region, 25 million 620 thousand dollars.
10-7, Detail of Capital, Kivalliq Region, $13 million 425 thousand dollars.
I want to ask a question regarding the Repulse Bay Health Center.
Is that for the arctic patrol drawings of the health centre or is it for the replacement of the health centre?
This building in Repulse was built about 17 years ago.
And it’s a barn style facility and I can say to you, I’ve been there several times now, that the facility is just not acceptable.
It’s probably one of the worse ones I’ve been in.
There are leaks in the roof and so on.
The resident situation is not acceptable for the nurses there.
The money, and the member is correct, the money is for the design, as well as the money that is there to design the money for the new residence for the nurses, so they won’t be in the health centre.
Are you also going to be replacing the health centre in Repulse Bay?
It’s way too small.
Do you have any plans to replace the health centre in Repulse Bay?
In the 5 year capital plan, $6.7 million dollars has been budgeted for the replacement of the health centre and that will begin in earnest in 2005/2006 and be completed by 2007/2008.
I would suggest to you Mr. Chairman, that if we had the funds available, I would move this project further up in the capital plan, closer to now, that and the project in Pangnirtung.
Both of them need to be done but we don’t have the resources to do it.
This is one of the priorities of the department and hopefully in over the coming years, if there’s an opportunity, we will move it up in the Capital Plan.
But this needs a lot of work to keep it up to code also, extensive repairs and renovations need to spent on to keep it operating over the next couple of years.
In Rankin Inlet, the Kivalliq Health Centre, furniture and equipment, $15 million dollars.
I took a drive by the location the last time I was in Rankin Inlet and it doesn’t look by the appearance of the piles, that it’s a very large facility.
What functions are going to be provided in the Rankin Inlet facility?
Mr. Chairman, the two medical facilities, the health centre as well as the facility in Cambridge Bay will have some of the similar functions that we have in Iqaluit except that you would not have the surgical functions that are being carried out.
You will have specialty clinics.
We’ll do some of the dental surgery.
We will be able to offer an expanded range of services that are not now currently available.
For example, we will be able to increase the number of births and so on.
You will have 10 in patient beds where we would be able to bring people to Rankin Inlet instead of having to medivac them to Churchill or Winnipeg.
So there will be quite a few other abilities of the extended care facility in Rankin Inlet.
As well as in Cambridge Bay.
I know when I use the word cost savings to you; you get defensive when it comes to health care.
But one of our staff escalating costs in Nunavut today is health care and it seems like it’s out of control.
We have to be critical of these costs because when they rise fast, there are other programs that have to suffer.
I was talking to the mayor of Churchill two years ago.
Mike Spence is a friend of mine, and yours.
He was saying 85% of the usage at the Churchill health centre is Kivalliq residents.
Do you expect to be a significant reduction of use in that health facility, once new Rankin Inlet Health Facility is completed?
Hon. Ed Picco: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to point out that we have been joined today at this very moment by many of the senior NIC, the Nurses in Charge in our health centres here in the Baffin Region.
See behind Mr. McLean, and they listen to him intently on the virtues of having a new facility in both the Keewatin and Baffin Region and the Kitikmeot Region of Nunavut.
Very quickly to answer Mr. McLean’s question, I do not like the verbiage out of control spending.
I would suggest to you Mr. Chairman, as pointed out by the Auditor General of Canada herself that there be expenditure base as the Government of Nunavut Department of Health & Social Services was not sufficient and therefore and thus the extra money that was put into that program last year.
But the member has made one good point Mr. Chairman, as you said earlier.
Mr. Chairman, at one point you said that the gross expenditure base on a gross domestic product of GDP, Mr. Chairman, when you said that about the Department of Nunavut, Health expenditures at 17% of the Government of Nunavut is not sustainable and you are correct Mr. Chairman.
The 17% that the GDP, right now being spent by the Government of Nunavut on Health Care is the most of any jurisdiction in Canada.
We’ve spent three times as more Mr. Chairman, as any other jurisdiction on Health Care for GDP and in that context Mr. McLean is correct when he says that is unsustainable, he is correct.
There is no way we can sustain that amount of expenditure over a period of time.
Yes, your right, Mr. Chairman, you read that GDP amount in the National Health Magazine as well as being audited by other firms.
Thank you Mr. Ng and thank you Mr. Chairman.
If you could perhaps shorten your answers and make them to the point.
Mr. McLean: I’m glad you said that to him; make them short and to the point.
But I wish he would answer my question.
Like you know, he could come over to my house tonight if he’s lonely and talk to me about you know, all this type of stuff and he’s more than welcome but you know when I’m in the house here, I’m asking a question and if he’s going to be you know, usage and stuff like that, I wish he would answer the question like you know, I know the minister is not caught short for talking to me and I do brush him off sometimes when he sees me around the building and you know I won’t listen to him but you know I wish he would answer my question when I ask him.
That’s all I’m asking as a politician, that’s suppose to keep him accountable that he answer my question when I ask him.
I’m not asking him personal stuff; I’m just asking him you know.
The question was, when this new Rankin Inlet facility is built, does he expect that the usage of the Churchill Hospital will drop off? Because currently 85% of the people that use the Churchill facility are from the Kivalliq.
Have you done any kind of cost estimates or are we still going to be using the Churchill facility as much? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. McLean. Mr. Picco.
Mr. Chairman, the answer to question as yet and we’ve seen a drop off as we speak right now with the birthing program for example.
The answer very shortly is and simply is yes.
That’s the way is should be. Mr. McLean.
You’re a very good Chairperson of doing this for me.
I’d like to thank you for your help and getting me the answers out of Mr. Picco that I’m looking for and like I say I fully support Mr. Picco’s initiatives to build these facilities in the three regions.
Now, the other question and you know it is related to capital.
On the Rankin Inlet facility you told me they’re going to be providing different functions and processes.
My question is, when you build a facility like that, and you’re going to provide extra services and stuff, can you give me an estimate of how many new jobs will be created for the residents of Rankin Inlet, and I’m talking about janitors, I’m talking about lab technicians, I’m talking about assistants, nursing assistants, and all kinds of new opportunities that the people in Rankin Inlet are going to have when this new facility opens?
Mr. Chairman, the short answer is that there would be an increase in PYs in Rankin Inlet.
We would expect that the increase in PYs would be through helping attract some nurses as well as care taking staff and so on.
We don’t have a firm estimate.
At this time we would expect there would be at least 8 to 12 FTEs in Rankin Inlet; the direct result of this facility that would probably come directly from Rankin Inlet.
And I’m not nailing you down on the certain numbers but a dozen new positions created for Rankin Inlet and like I say, I fully support this facility in the Kivalliq.
People in the Kivalliq have been waiting over 20 years for this facility and I have to commend you as the minister for finally bringing it to the residents of the Kivalliq because I know in my community there’s an undue amount of stress when Elders have to travel from Baker Lake down to Winnipeg for a simple physiotherapy or simple check up.
And the cost on this government is horrendous when you have to send somebody down for a half hour appointment that is minor.
A return ticket for two people is close to 5 or 6 thousand dollars, so I’m hoping that this new facility will provide those functions that aren’t currently being provided for in Rankin Inlet now.
I commend the minister for showing his leadership and his vision to these facilities off the ground eventually.
But my final question to the minister, Mr. Chairman, is, has he thought about if he has to bring in outside professionals, the staff housing issue again, because like, every other community in Nunavut, Rankin Inlet has a housing shortage.
Mr. Chairman, the premier recently appointed the minister in charge of immigration for the Government of Nunavut also.
In that vain the idea would be to be able to expedite the hiring of people over-seas if needed, especially the medical profession like we’ve done with the good work with some of the Australian nurses that have brought forward, which has worked out very well for us.
On the residency side itself, Mr. Chairman, the answer is yes.
This will be my final question, Mr. Chairman.
Is that the recurring issue of a transient centre in Rankin Inlet, for the residents of Arviat, Whale Cove, Chesterfield Inlet, Baker Lake, Repulse Bay and Coral Harbour, that got a travel facility to use it, will you have an up and running good transient centre in place by the time this facility is up and running?
Mr. Chairman, the answer is yes, the plan was to have a facility in place by the time the Rankin Inlet facility is open.
We would hope in the new year to go to an RFP for the expression of interest for boarding home availability not only Rankin Inlet but also in Cambridge Bay for both of those facilities.
First of all I would like to apologise for my delay as I was having meetings in Yellowknife.
Perhaps you’re on 10-6?
I would like to ask a question in regards to the health facility in Cambridge Bay.
Oh, okay, I will ask a question once we get there.
Chairperson (interpretation): We’re on 10-7, 13 million $425 thousand dollars.
Turning to page 10-8.
Mr. Havioyak (interpretation): I apologize perhaps I was in a rush here.
I would like to ask a question in regards to the Health facility in Cambridge Bay.
Where the residents of the Kitikmeot will have the use of the facility, I want to raise a concern that was brought up from my constituents in Kugluktuk.
Would we have a facility such as a boarding home, once this Health facility is up and running in Cambridge Bay.
I would suggest that both facilities be built at the same time, because there is always a concern where patients that go to a Health facility do not always have a place to stay.
I wonder if this would be in the five year Capital Plan?
Mr. Chairman, the plan would be to have a boarding home in Cambridge Bay.
And the plan would also be, Mr. Chairman, to facilitate that through an RFP, around the same time that we would be doing an RFP in Rankin Inlet.
It is not in the Capital Budget, Mr. Chairman, because that is facilitated through the NIHB Program and reciprocated through accounts receivable and accounts payable by the Government of Nunavut.
Thank you, Minister for your comments, because there is always a concern on that and it is good to see that it is in the plans.
While we are on the subject of the Kitikmeot region, Mr. Chairman, I would ask some issues on the five year plan, because there are some issues that are not in there that I want to question, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman, there are some programs that we have not been able to bring forward on the Capital Plan based on the costs to table the dollar availability.
The dollar values that are available to us as a Department.
That is something that we actively encourage discussions on.
We are already dealing with this at the present time.
I hope to answer the Member’s question.
I do would like to welcome the Member back to Iqaluit.
He has been missed the last couple of days at the Assembly with his usual excellent oral questions.
In the Five Year Capital Plan, I would like to ask another question in terms of we know that the communities in Nunavut are growing and increasing.
We are aware that our children or our young people get into trouble and have to be put in group homes in the communities.
In cases where the young people are sent away from their communities, that is a concern because it does not seem to help the young person overcome their problems.
Once you have a young person who is trouble in the community they should be put in a place in their own community where they have relatives and friends that they can help deal with them with their problems.
I would like to see this in the 5 year plan in terms of placing group homes in the communities.
It’s been 2 or 3 years since I’ve been questioning this and I would like to see the young people stay in their communities when they’re in trouble.
I am aware that the minister wants to work on this in terms of the concerns that we have in the Hamlet of Kugluktuk.
I would like to see this concern in terms of placing health facilities and group homes in the community or even the region so that the young people are closer to home.
That’s part of the tough decisions that we have to make as a government and that future governments will have to make.
Right now, we’ve tried to bring on line the three health facilities as well as the community health centres that we’re trying to replace and quite a few of them are quite old.
We’d also like bring on Elder care facilities, long term Elder care facilities like we’ve just opened recently in Baker Lake by renovating an under utilized building and we would also like to be able to bring on some more group homes, so again, it depends on the capital dollars that are out there.
There are so many needs in each department in the government and government in general and health, the need is there for centres or hospitals as well as the group homes and all the care facilities so, again it’s based on what’s available at that time.
Perhaps if I can refer to appendix C-24.
For example, 2005 – 2006, the programs are not included.
There is a lot of planning which is good.
I would like to see in the near future just what the basic needs are in terms of our 5 year capital plan and when they’re not put in the plans it just seems that the problems seem to increase and the programs are further away in terms of years as to when those facilities would be revisited.
How soon can we see those issues that are in the 5 year capital plan that are put in place?
Chairperson (interpretation): We’re under detail of Capital.
You’re question is a very good question but maybe you can touch more on this tomorrow because at this time we’re dealing with detail of Capital.
Once we reach that stage then you can raise the question again.
Mr. Havioyak (interpretation): I will raise that once it arises perhaps tomorrow.
It’s already in the 5 year capital plan.
I’ll let the minister respond.
Mr. Chairman, if you follow the Capital Plan, and continue up to 2007/2008, there is a percentage with each department budgeted for, that we bring forward in the capital planning process and, before 2007/2008, when you look at the total for Health and Social Services under that page, for example, that it’s $3.9 million dollars.
That is the cap at that time.
What I am prepared to do though, Mr. Chairman, and I just spoke to both of my colleagues there, is to look at the Capital Plan and to see where there is an opportunity for some of the programs that they’re talking about that we also know that’s needed.
For example, I’m trying to replace the health centre.
At the same time there are needs for group homes and extended care facilities for Elders.
And how do I get those facilities in the Capital Plan?
So, that’s something that we’re working on.
For the facilities that will be built in the Kitikmeot, I have concerns so that, in Kitikmeot Region, the 5 outlined communities will use the new health facility that will be built in Cambridge Bay, there will be Gjoa Haven and we all know that they’ll definitely need a transient centre or boarding home.
As the minister, you said that you’re looking for somebody to contract those services to.
There’ll be lots of patients that will use lots of those services at the hospital in Kitikmeot.
There will definitely be a need for a boarding home and we can honestly say that there’ll definitely be a need for a boarding home.
Not just a small facility but a boarding home large enough to be able to accommodate the number of patients that have to travel there.
We’ll definitely need a bigger boarder home.
Can the minister assure us that there will definitely be a boarding home for the patients to use.
Mr. Chairman, there are two opportunities there.
One is through an RFP process for Cambridge Bay.
And the other one is under the capital budget you will notice that the Nunavut Arctic College is putting in 2.2 million dollars in Cambridge Bay for a new Nunavut Arctic College student accommodation.
Is there an opportunity to see if that could also accommodation hospital patients?
Is there a way of revamping that program and including it?
For example, Mr. Chairman, here in Iqaluit, the former student residence for the high school is used as the boarding home, so there are a couple of opportunities.
One way or the other, Mr. Chairman, I would suggest to you that there will be a boarding home or facilities for boarding patients in Cambridge Bay and Rankin Inlet before the facility is complete or the facility opens in each community.
I was going to ask the same question.
The facility in Cambridge Bay, how many beds or how many rooms will there be?
Does the minister know that information?
Hon. Ed Picco: That is correct Mr. Chairman.
Chairperson (interpretation): Minister Picco, I didn’t hear your response.
Can you respond to his question?
Hon. Ed Picco: The answer is yes, the number is 10 beds.
If there is going to be 10 beds and considering the size of the population in Kitikmeot and looking at the boarding home the present boarding home in Yellowknife, then there won’t be enough room for everybody, for the people of Kitikmeot for the population.
Before we put the RFP out, what we were trying to determine before hand is the number of patients that would be staying for example in the facility.
When we say 10 beds, for example, Mr. Chairman, there maybe five patients from Cambridge Bay staying in the facility.
That means they’re not coming from outside of community and therefore and thus we wouldn’t need to board them.
So, those types of contingencies would be put in place before the RFP was issued.
Chairperson (interpretation): The list of names that I have - we're on 10-8.
Details of Capital.