EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
What will the savings be to Nunavut to have these community care facilities open when the new hospital is operational and the boarding homes fully operational to support the health facilities? I know in the past we have spent tens and tens of millions of dollars sending patients down south to the Northwest Territories or to provinces. I read last year that it is up to $5,000 per patient per night.
You must have done calculations that show what the savings will be to us as a government. Could you give us a bit of an indication what those savings might be?
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Peterson. Ms. Minister.
Hon. Leona Aglukkaq: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Clearly the department is working on consolidating and looking at all that information.
The areas where there will be savings, obviously, of course with the centres that would be closer to Nunavut and the facilities in Rankin Inlet and Cambridge Bay as an example.
We expect that there will be some decrease in the medical travel funds for providing that service. That is one area. The other area that we are looking at is around the whole area of training and development, with training of local people and hiring of local individuals for professional-type jobs down the road.
We are anticipating that there will be less recruitment and retention costs.
Those are some of the categories that are going to be included in the report.
As it is right now, we don’t have that information available and hope that in a year from now we’ll be able to provide that with the two centres open. They just opened a few months ago so we’ll have to gather that information.
Just to confirm that the minister is assuring us that this time next year, when we have this conversation again; she’ll be able to table some actual figures to us that show that we have had savings by the opening of these health facilities and not having to send patients down south. Is that what the minister is saying?
Hon. Leona Aglukkaq: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to clarify again, the health centre in Rankin Inlet opened two months ago and the one in Cambridge Bay, well the staff won’t be moving in there until November so from those dates we should have a better idea and be able to report.
I hope to have that information at least a year into the operation of those new facilities.
I am happy to hear that but I would be more confident if you were telling me that you have instructed your staff to start collecting that information and put the systems in place.
I am sure Mr. Blais probably has done that but I would like to hear that that is happening. I know every year; a year and a half now we have been at this, and the costs have gone up every year, so it would be nice to start getting some information saying that the costs are going down and that we have a lot of savings on O&M when these new capital projects are going into place that we could use to re-direct towards to providing improved health services to Nunavummiut.
If the minister could perhaps assure me and the rest of the regular members in the House that the staff is already collecting this information and will have it available for the House and/or Standing Committee around this time next year to review.
We can look at comparisons, “pre” these capital projects and after they have opened.
I will commit to that.
Are you done? Thank you. Mr. Arreak.
Mr. Arreak: (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a very brief question.
Today during Members’ Statements I made a statement in regard to the Qikiqtarjuaq Nursing Station. As I stated it is very, very old although it was renovated and improved back in 1991, the health centre or facility that we have is over thirty years old.
My question today is, have you worked on the renovation plans for that Nursing Station?
Hon. Leona Aglukkaq: According to the information that I have, the Qikiqtarjuaq Health Centre was renovated in 1991. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Yes, it was renovated back in 1991, but have you started discussing constructing a new health centre over there?
The Qikiqtarjuaq Health Centre, a brand new facility is not currently in the five-year capital book.
In your opening comments, and also in the chair of the standing committee’s opening comments, according to the opening statements, the third project that you mentioned; could you consider Qikiqtarjuaq as the site?
There has been no decision made on that as it is, and it is not a health centre.
In my opening remarks, I referred to a continuing 24/7 care facility, and that decision has not been made.
Yes, I understand that, but you talked about the average age of health care facilities as being less than 20 years old. The one in Qikiqtarjuaq, perhaps it’s no longer in your inventory because it’s so old.
Qikiqtarjuaq is on our inventory list and it shows as a building that was renovated in 1991.
So, in calculating whether it’s 33 years old, perhaps the original frame is 33 years old but there were renovations made to that facility in 1991.
Thirty three years ago the facilities were built and even though they’ve been renovated they don’t even live up to the codes.
Even though, even public units, they’ve been renovated they don’t actually become better.
The question is can you start looking into the health centre in Qikiqtarjuaq, if you can commit to thinking about or looking into the health centre in Qikiqtarjuaq, sometime in the coming years, starting from now?
Yes, I hear what the member is saying and I want to reassure the member that the facility for Qikiqtarjuaq is in the book. The date/age of construction without the renovation is 33 years old.
We are dealing right now with facilities that are 47 years old, and we’re just finishing off those projects.
We opened one this month in Cambridge Bay. The 35-year old facility, Rankin Inlet, and the other one’s 43 years old and that is in Iqaluit.
So these three facilities are in the books and as you can see, they are in the capital estimates. Those three facilities alone could eat up the entire government of Nunavut’s capital budget.
So along with all the other priorities of the Government of Nunavut departments, we do put forth our cases on a needs basis and with all the facilities that we have with the Department of Health, Qikiqtarjuaq is one of those facilities.
Yes, it’s good to see renovations done. I’m not overly concerned with the other health centres, but I’m quite concerned about the Qikiqtarjuaq Health Centre being renovated or if you can start thinking of a replacement for that health centre.
Yesterday, during the opening ceremonies, we heard through the address that the communities that are non-decentralized should be considered. I’m urging you not to forget the smaller communities that are non-decentralized.
Even though they may be smaller communities, the services should be comparable to the services that are provided in the larger centres.
You have to consider the health centre in Qikiqtarjuaq and if there are health centres in smaller communities, they should be considered as well.
That concludes my questions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman (interpretation): I don’t think that was a question, so I’ll move on to the next member.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to do a follow-up on the questions that were posed by the Member for Cambridge Bay.
As the minister had responded that in Rankin Inlet there are two continuing care facilities, I just wanted to follow-up on that. I think we should have a good understanding of that. When you were selecting those continuing care facilities we understood that they were going to be 24-hour care facilities.
I have also tabled a petition here in regard to the elder’s facilities continuing care and that’s what they have requested and that’s the second largest community of Nunavut; approximately a population of 3,000. And there are a lot of elders there.
I also wanted to do a follow-up. Prior to the selection of the site, they selected Cambridge Bay, Gjoa Haven, and Igloolik. The minister responded to me and although I’m very happy with your response, the tone of the letter seems like it didn’t really want it because Rankin Inlet has already a continuing care facility, a handicap facility.
I’m sure that that handicap facility is not 24 hours.
I don’t even know if they have professional staff such as psychiatric treatment; perhaps if the minister or her officials can tell me if there are professional staff in Rankin Inlet.
And also, I think you said that there were two elder’s facilities. That’s just the housing for elders and there are only four elders living in that facility.
If you can explain, (interpretation ends) what is a continuing care facility?
The list I provided to the Member from Cambridge Bay was residential facilities and care facilities. And there are four facilities for continuing care, 24/7, that we announced last year, I believe.
The two I mentioned in Rankin Inlet are Rankin Inlet Adult Group Home and the other one was Rankin Inlet Children’s Group Home. During this summer we had talked about the number of facilities in the Keewatin, and I believe that was the angle of the questions I was asked. In Kivalliq, at the time, I had identified five facilities existing in that region and not necessarily by the communities.
I hope that clarifies it to the member.
The other question the member asked is if there are 24-hour staff in those facilities and I’m advised for Rankin Inlet Adult Group Home and Children’s Group Home that would be the case.
I appreciate the minister’s attempt to clarify the question, but I think we need to get the facts straight on that.
I don’t believe the adult home in Rankin Inlet, there are only four residents there, is a 24-hour facility.
It is a volunteer I know, because one of my relatives had concerns; they had to spend their whole time there voluntarily, whenever the elders were really too weak, when that individual is sick.
I also recall somewhere in the statements, I think last year, that regionally that facility was cost shared by the housing corporation and so on.
Originally it was not designed as a health care facility, it was really an elder’s home, it was residential, I mean, pretty much.
That facility is helpful, but what we were seeking last year was with respect to the petition that we needed a 24-hour care facility in a place like Rankin Inlet because it is a centre where most people come in from other regions and so on.
So, for that purpose, I would like the minister to see if she can clearly define exactly where there is a health care facility.
I think you’re using statistics and mixing them in a bag and saying these communities have enough, they don’t need any more, and the priority goes somewhere else.
That may be fine for defending the government’s actions but its good PR or policy to be applied by our own government. So I think we need a little more respect for presentation as to why it is essential in some parts and not in others.
So could the minister clarify for me and the House, to the House, exactly why we don’t have a 24-hour facility on the radar scope or five-year plan for places like Rankin Inlet, particularly for elders?
I know that a youth group home has at least 24-hour care attendants, whether they do have professional care I’m not sure.
There are a lot of questions in that. I’ll try and answer the questions that I do remember.
The Rankin Inlet facility, from what I understand here, there are, in the two facilities in Rankin Inlet, there are 16 beds.
There are staff that operate that and the Department of Health covers the cost of these facilities, whether they are for children, adults or disabled people.
I know in the past, the housing corporation provided housing for elders which is different from people that require 24 hours, 7 days a week care, as an example.
One example I can use is the Naajat Isabella Home, where they live in a home and they are looked after 24/7 because of their disabilities.
The varying degrees of these facilities I listed, will differ based on who is residing in the centre.
I think all the facilities that I’ve listed as residential or long-term care are important services, provided to the community, and I’m responding to what facilities that we currently provide for service to Rankin Inlet, and those are the two that I made reference to earlier.
Yes, as I stated earlier, the Rankin Inlet group home for youth, I think, is a good one, and it has been well received and it continues to provide good service by the staff.
But, I’m not sure they do have, the answer is not coming from the minister or her staff, whether they are professional staff that provide treatment for those very seriously handicapped, in some cases mentally.
I don’t think it is just a centre for youth, but it provides care for those who have some type of handicap. But the elder’s facility, there are only four rooms in that facility and it’s really what I consider a senior’s home and not a health care facility as far as I am concerned.
I may be wrong but I will be dealing with that more as a Kivalliq region item.
Chairman (interpretation): Do you want to respond, Ms. Minister.
The member is correct. The facilities are different facilities.
There are 24/7, adults, youth and there are a number of situations but I just want to identify that there are different facilities that we do provide assistance to as a government.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you. Are you done? Mr. Evyagotailak.
On the 24 hours care facility, I had brought a resolution couple of years ago on 24-hour care facility.
Before I ask the question I would like to bring this up. A couple of months ago one of our elders passed away, away from the territory away from his home.
And I heard that he had wanted to be buried in his own community and his wish was not met because we don’t have a 24-hour health care facility.
And it is not nice to see the family in pain when you hear about these things.
Anyways I had a public meeting and again this was brought up to my attention from one of the elders, that they wanted a 24-hour care facility in Kugluktuk. I brought a resolution that was made by one of the elders who is not living now.
And the seconder was another elder from Kugluktuk and I had tabled that resolution that came from the elders.
Can the minister let this committee know if they are going to build another 24-hour care facility in the near future?
The commitment from Cabinet is to build or construct four 24/7 facilities in Nunavut and in June I announced the two facilities that we have identified communities for.
Mr. Evyagotailak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for your answer.
I also would like to bring to your attention that I got a letter from a person from Fort Smith who happened to...
Chairman (interpretation): Mr. Evyagotailak if you could please hold on a second.
We are on page 7 in the Qikiqtaaluk region and we will be talking about Kitikmeot and Kivalliq region on the next page.
If you have any questions on the Qikiqtaaluk region now is the time to ask those questions. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
Pertaining to the Qikiqtaaluk region, you may proceed.
Mr. Barnabas (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In 2005 and 2006 there was going to be health facility replacement for Arctic Bay and that they would start that in 2007. It was supposed to cost in the neighbourhood of $7.5 million.
In 2007 to 2011 when you see the capital plans it states that it is not going to begin the building of that facility until 2008-09.
Maybe it has something to do with just the planning of that facility.
If I can get some clarification on that first?
According to the information that I have for the five year capital plan Arctic Bay appears in the books for 2008-09. Without knowing what the question was, I think there were two questions there, if he can clarify it for me.
In 2005-06 it was supposed to be built but they deferred to 2008-09. What is the reason for it being deferred is my question.
From what I understand in the preface here the departments are allocated a target and within that target the Department of Health tries to fit in all the capital projects and from what Ms. Brown tells me, Arctic Bay was put in the books this year for 2008-09.
Mr. Barnabas: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Assembly approved $15,000 for 2005-06 fiscal year for needs assessment of the Arctic Bay Health Centre. What was the result of that assessment?
The consultation will take place after Christmas once the capital budgets are dealt with.
Mr. Barnabas: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What is the new timeline for the replacement of the Arctic Bay Health Centre?
The consultation will take place, like I said, after December.
In the five year capital year we have targeted the design work for the new centre for the 2008-09 fiscal year.
Mr. Barnabas: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What are the total projected costs for this facility and when will they appear in the capital plans?
The mains are just preliminary. Once they have done the design work, we’ll be able to cost it out after 2008-09.
In my constituency the new schedule for First Air will start on December 10. The people from my constituency will be coming into the new hospital in the middle of the night with the new schedule that First Air has, and the drivers for the boarding home finish at five o’clock.
What is going to happen? Are there any plans in place for the consideration of those people?
Is the member referring to the new scheduled flights with First Air?
If you could clarify your question, Mr. Barnabas.
Mr. Barnabas (interpretation): Yes, that is what I am talking about.
If there are patients on that flight and the patients are scheduled to stay at the boarding home, they will be picked up by the boarding home when they arrive, whenever that time may be.
Mr. Barnabas. (interpretation) Are you done?
Mr. Alagalak, if you have any questions on page H-7.
I have one question: what’s the total estimated cost for that Qikiqtani General Hospital?
The estimated amount is $52.7 million and I believe that’s also in the capital main estimates.
That’s the only question I have.
Mr. Mapsalak, do you have questions on H-7 or are you asking about the Kivalliq region?
I will ask questions when we get to the Kivalliq capital estimates.
Chairman (interpretation): Any questions on the Baffin region? You can ask two more questions, Mr. Barnabas.
When that hospital is completed, what kinds of specialists will be working in that hospital?
(interpretation ends) Will there be dialysis capacities; would there be diagnostic equipment such as MRI machines, CT scanners, and mammography machines?
I’m going to ask the deputy minister to respond to the programs that will be offered at the new hospital when the construction is completed.
Chairman: Thank you. Could you please respond to Mr. Barnabas’ question, Mr. Blais?
Mr. Blais: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As he relates to dialysis, at this time, this is not a program that we will be implementing.
I have directed my staff to do a review of all dialysis patients going out-of-territory from Nunavut to other jurisdictions to determine whether we have sufficient patients to build a dialysis unit.
We have already been in discussions with Winnipeg and also with Ottawa about the possibility.
In order for us to do that, we would require a partnership with a large academic or teaching hospital in Canada in order to provide the specialist support that would be required, but we could, in fact, at some future date have a satellite dialysis unit in Nunavut. It could be at any one of the three health centres at this point. We don’t know where the critical mass of patients are situated.
The period that we are focusing on now is really chemotherapy as our first priority.
We know we have a lot of chemotherapy patients in all three regions. We have a pilot project in Rankin Inlet and our hope is to expand that to build a bigger satellite chemotherapy centre in each of the three regions.
And then once we have done that, then dialysis will be our next priority.
Mr. Barnabas: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. How will the government’s recent staff housing policy impact the recruitment and retention of medical professionals such as doctors and nurses?
The Department of Health and Social Services continues to monitor the impact it will have on our employees.
As members will note, this policy has just been implemented and only through time will we be able to determine the real impact. As it is right now we are monitoring that. We continue to try and address the whole issue of capacity around health care professions at a number of fronts that I mentioned earlier.
We are expanding the training programs in Nunavut so that Nunavummiut are able to take training in the north and occupy the jobs essential in our communities. As it is right now I can not predict it but I can say that the department is monitoring that impact. At the same time the department will be initiating I guess if you want to call it a survey with professionals on the level of job satisfaction not just considering the issue of housing but around training and the support at the community level and the quality of life, different areas and try and get a real feel why we lose nurses or doctors in the north and what makes the north attractive outside the job whether it be a training program or the quality of life in the community with housing or what have you.
But that is an initiative the department has started discussions on and hopefully we’ll deal with it in the next year or so.
Again I will say that we will continue to monitor the impact of that and also surveys and interviews of people that we may be losing because of the housing situation. We won’t know this until such time has passed.
Go ahead, Mr. Barnabas.
And thank you for giving me another chance to ask.
I wonder if the minister can provide us with where there needs to be new construction or improvements of the health centres in the communities that are not included in the 2006-07 Capital Plans.  As to which communities will be priorities.
I can provide a list to the Member of the number of facilities and how old those facilities are and if they received any renovations and what have you, which kind of indicates what is needed. I can provide that listing to the Members.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you. We are on page H-7 under Qikiqtaaluk. I don’t have anybody else on my list.
Total Qikiqtaaluk Region. $18 million.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you. Moving to page H-8.
Kivalliq Region.
First of all, the $100,000, it is embarrassing especially when I am sitting in this House. I am sure it is not embarrassing for the Minister for the colleagues on that side. I think these are only for vehicles.
My question is: when they were doing the planning, I would like to supplement on a statement that I made. They said that they are going to wait for the federal government on the boarding home.
They know for sure about the boarding home. I wonder if the minister or her deputy minister can tell me when they expect to hear something from the federal government. Do you know the status of the negotiators, if there is going to be cost sharing, or what it entails?
The member is correct. We are dealing with Health Canada to negotiate the Non-Insured Health Benefits rate for boarding homes in Nunavut, not only Nunavut, but also the one in Ottawa.
Health Canada provides funding to operate health boarding homes.
The discussions are ongoing and we hope to have a response back from Health Canada in early January.
Of course we need to finalize the negotiations with Health Canada before we can do a request for proposals for the boarding home for the Kivalliq.
Mr. Curley, do you have any other questions.
As I stated earlier, I can’t even remember how many years ago it was supposed to be erected, but it hasn’t gone through and now I find out it’s been deferred again.
At least it’s written in the capital plan, but they never seem to follow through with what they have on paper.
That being the case, as we can see, it’s been deferred until 2009-10, and for it to be completed, 2010-11.
Can the minister indicate to me that these years that are put on there, 2010-11 will be used?
Is that the exact target date, because the present health centre we have is not in very good condition.