EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
This appropriation is for adjustments to the capital carryover amounts previously approved from the 2013-14 fiscal year to the 2014-15 fiscal year, in addition to three new requests for project funding.
$469,000 for the Department of Executive and Intergovernmental Affairs to carry forward the remaining 2013-14 Vote 2 budget for the Aeroplex office building renovations;
$43,000 for the Department of Finance, which includes an $85,000 increase in the capital budget for the office renovations of the Helen Maksagak building in Cambridge Bay, a $41,000 decrease to the capital carryover amount for the heavy equipment operator simulator in Rankin Inlet, and a $1,000 decrease to the small capital budget for Nunavut Arctic College;
-$64,000 in adjustments to capital carryovers for two projects for the Department of Education – a $63,000 decrease for the Internet School Connectivity project and a $1,000 decrease for the Education Flooring Project;
$11,134,000 for several projects for the Department of Health, which includes an increase in the carryover budget of $942,000 for the Taloyoak Health Centre, $10,266,000 in new funding for the Baffin Regional Hospital Renovation Project to allow the proceeds of the performance bond to be used by the project, a $22,000 reduction to the carryover for fixtures and equipment for the Baffin Regional Hospital Renovation Project, a $49,000 decrease to the carryover for diagnostic medical equipment, and a $3,000 decrease to the carryover for the Community Health Centre Wiring and Phone Upgrade Project;
-$9,000 adjustment for the Department of Community and Government Services for a capital carryover adjustment to the Iqaluit Parnaivik Structured Cabling Project; and
$22,951,000 in several projects for the Department of Economic Development and Transportation covering decreases of $690,000 in the capital carryover amounts for airport improvement projects in Grise Fiord, Repulse Bay, Chesterfield Inlet, Iqaluit, Baker Lake, and Rankin Inlet, as well as a $23,641,000 increase to the Iqaluit International Airport Improvement Project to bring the accounting for the project in line with current financial reporting practices.
Mr. Chairman, I would be pleased to take questions. Thank you.
Chairman: Thank you. Questions? We’re on page 4 of Bill 6.
Total. Directorate. $469,000.
Total Department. $469,000.
Chairman: Page 5. Finance.
Capital. Not Previously Authorized. Total Comptrollership. $85,000.
Total Centrally Administered Funds. -$42,000.
In the minister’s opening comments, below the $42,000, under Arctic College, $41,000 is for the heavy equipment operator simulator in Rankin Inlet, I believe. I just want further information on whether this has been deferred or why it is in this situation.
Mr. Chairman, these are accounting entries. What happened is the department paid more in the old year than they expected to pay, so now we’re reversing or making adjustments to record the payment in the last fiscal year.
Chairman: Thank you, Minister Peterson. We’re on Page 5. Finance.
Not Previously Authorized. Total Comptrollership. $85,000.
Total Department. Not Previously Authorized. $43,000. Agreed?
Capital. Not Previously Authorized. Total Corporate Services.
Again I have a question regarding the $63,000 decrease and in Inuktitut, it states here that there’s a $63,000 decrease for the Internet School Connectivity project.
In Inuktitut, I believe we’re talking about the Internet.
My question is: as Mr. Peterson was saying, is it a paper adjustment?
We’re on page 6. Education.
Capital. Not Previously Authorized. Total Corporate Services. -$64,000.
Total Department. Not Previously Authorized. -$64,000. Agreed?
Chairman: Page 7. Health. Capital.
Total Directorate. $11,134,000. Total Department. Not Previously Authorized. $11,134,000.
Total Capital Planning. -$9,000.
Total Department. Not Previously Authorized. -$9,000.
Mr. Rumbolt, I’m sorry.
On page 9, it states that it’s to provide $23,641,000 to bring the accounting for the Iqaluit International Airport Improvement Project into line with the current fiscal reporting practices.
When anyone looks at this figure, it looks like we are injecting more money into Iqaluit’s airport project and from my understanding, that’s not the case; it’s more of an accounting procedure that has to be done for contracting purposes.
I’m wondering if the minister or his officials can take us step by step through the process of how this accounting issue was identified and to the point where it was resolved and having to have it showing up in our books the way it is.
Mr. Rumbolt is absolutely correct.
Contrary to what the media is reporting, there is no increase to the budget for the airport P3 project.
If a reporter wants to talk to us, we’re free to answer questions and they can report that.
The full cost of the Iqaluit improvement project had to be included in the capital plan and this is based on months of discussions with our accounting people and also the Auditor General of Canada’s office.
I’m not an accountant myself, I understand the process, but I will ask my deputy minister, if a detailed explanation is requested, he can provide that.
In the normal capital planning process, we appropriate the amount that we are going to spend in a year on a capital project.
If a project costs $100 to build, normally there is an appropriation for $100.
In this case, this is the first time that the government is actually taking on some debt and we did not appropriate for the amount of money that the project company had spent on the project to date.
We talked to several accountants about the proper treatment of it, whether we should appropriate it at the time we are paying back the debt over 30 years piece by piece by piece or if it’s more important to do an appropriation that shows the value of what we put into the airport project to date, which would be the money that the government has spent, but also the funds that the project company that has put into physically building the airport.
At the end of the day, we decided that it was better to show the value of what we have spent on the building to date, both ourselves and the project company, so that at any one time, we can know how much has been put into the airport project in terms of construction.
To do that, we now create an additional liability, which, in this case, is $23,641,000.  As the minister and as member have said, there is no change at all to the value of the contract or the cost to the airport.
It’s merely the way that we are presenting it on our balance sheet.
We are on page 9.
Total Transportation. $22,951,000.
Total Department. Not Previously Authorized. $22,951,000.
Chairman: Go to page 2. Schedule 1: Capital.
Capital Appropriation. $34,524,000.
Chairman: Go to page 6 in your legislative binder.
Bill 6, Supplementary Appropriation (Capital) Act, No. 2, 2014-2015.
Chairman: Go to Schedule on page 3.
Schedule. Supplementary Amounts Appropriated for the Fiscal Year Ending March 31, 2015. Total Supplementary Appropriation. $34,524,000.
Chairman: Do members agree to Bill 6 as a whole?
Chairman: Do members agree that pursuant to Rule 62(2) that Bill 6 can immediately be placed on orders of the day for third reading?
I again thank you and your committee for your consideration of the bill. Not only today but in-camera standing committee meetings, we had good discussions and we appreciate that.
Minister Peterson, please proceed with your opening comments on Bill 7.
Bill 07 – Supplementary Appropriation (Operations & Maintenance) Act, No. 1, 2014-2015 – Consideration in Committee
I am here to present Bill 7, Supplementary Appropriation (Operations and Maintenance) Act, No. 1, 2014-2015.
Bill 7 is for operations and maintenance supplementary appropriations for 2014-15 totalling $7,329,000. It consists of the following items:
An interdepartmental transfer from Finance to Family Services of $247,000 to transfer three positions and their corresponding base funding;
An interdepartmental transfer from Community and Government Services to Family Services of $20,000 to fund the YWCA Aggvik agreement;
An additional $1,100,000 to the Department of Family Services to fund the Labour Market Agreement for Persons with Disabilities;
$3,585,000 to Education for NTA agreement increases;
$6,000 to Nunavut Arctic College for NTA agreement increases;
$2,138,000 to Health to fund the mental health and addictions expansion (phase 1); and
$350,000 to Environment to fund the preliminary steps of an assessment program for contaminated sites, plus an additional $150,000 to create an air quality specialist position.
We’re on Bill 7, page 4. Finance. Operations and Maintenance.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe we are on page 4.
The first one is the interdepartmental transfer to Family Services for three positions.
I believe that Nunavummiut all know that the Department of Family Services was separating from the Department of Health. At that time, we believed that new positions would not be created in the new department.
I just want to ask: are these positions new? Did these positions already exist and therefore, are only being transferred to the department?
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank Mr. Enook for his question.
Yes, Mr. Chairman, these positions currently exist within the Department of Finance and we are transferring them to Family Services to strengthen the Corporate Services Division in Family Services.
Mr. Enook: I don’t know.
You asked if I was done before I finished my train of thought.
These positions currently are in the Department of Finance and they are being transferred to Family Services. I may be mistaken, but I believe the positions that are being transferred are from the Department of Finance.
I know there is a good reason they are being transferred, but why do you need them transferred?
Yes, they are positions within the Department of Finance. They are positions we identified on our HR side with corporate services that we do not require in our department. We talked to the Minister of Family Services, and they do require additional assistance in their corporate services side and that is why, by identifying positions that we don’t require, we are able to help their department to strengthen their corporate services side.
That’s what we’re doing with this process.
Finance. Operations and Maintenance. Not Previously Authorized.
Total Directorate. -$195,000.
Total Policy, Planning and Financial Management. -$52,000.
Total Department. Not Previously Authorized. -$247,000.
Chairman: Page 5. Family Services.
I just have a question about the Labour Market Agreement for Persons with Disabilities.
Can you elaborate a little bit about what that’s about?
Chairman: Thank you, Ms Angnakak.
I’ll just find my notes here.
The Government of Nunavut signed an agreement with the Government of Canada. I think it’s a four-year agreement of $1.1 million.
It’s matching funds. The Government of Nunavut has to match the $1.1 million that is provided to us through that agreement.
The funds are not for health and wellness; they are for people with disabilities to help them in the labour market, in areas such as education and training, employment participation, employment opportunities, connecting employers and persons with disabilities, and building knowledge.
Thank you. Family Services.
Operations and Maintenance. Not Previously Authorized. Total Corporate Management. $88,000.
Total Children and Family Services. $179,000. Mr. Enook.
Under the $159,000 that would be transferred from the Department of Finance to Family Services, I want to get clarification on what this means exactly.
The Department of Family Services required additional funding for residential care and we were able to assist them with that funding. That’s what the purpose of that transfer is.
Although I understand that it would be used for residential care, I wanted to get clarification on what this exactly means and what would they do.
I was just seeking clarity from my deputy.
Mr. Chairman, it is another vacant PY in the Department of Finance.
This transfer of $159,000 from Finance to Family Services is to provide additional funding (interpretation ends) for residential care. (interpretation) I didn’t see the translation in Inuktitut yet.
I just want to get clarification on what the definition of residential care is.
Perhaps I’m not understanding Mr. Enook clearly. If he could restate his question.
Mr. Enook: Thank you, Iksivautaaq. (interpretation) How can I rephrase my question?
I was trying to find the Inuktitut translation. Mr. Chairman, let me look at the Inuktitut translation first. Let me read the Inuktitut translation of this bill, if it was the same.
This $159,000, it states here, and I’ll start reading from the beginning, it’s to provide additional funding for residential care.
What are these funds for residential care for? Are these for staff, for the cooks, for the mental health workers, for the custodian?
I understand that it’s to provide services, but what exactly is the work?
I apologize to Mr. Enook.
We don’t have details at the table here of what exactly they mean by residential care, but we believe that it is a PY. We transferred PYs to the Department of Family Services and then they redirected one of the PYs to this position here for children and family services.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Chairman.
Sometimes I do not know the exact rules of the House.
Perhaps, through you, Mr. Chairman, the Minister of Finance can ask the Minister of Family Services to provide the response.
Again, we don’t have any details. I just looked at the Minister of Family Services and she doesn’t have the details either available today.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): I’m a little bit unsure how to say it.
If I’m going to use a lot of money and I want approval from my fellow MLAs, I would be prepared to answer questions, but there is no information on it.
Mr. Chairman, would it be appropriate to ask this to be deferred until they get back to us with an answer?
We can’t just okay what you want.
That is not how we are supposed to operate.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, I will leave this here for now and think about it some more. Maybe my colleagues will have more questions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Not so much a question on what is here, but maybe on process.
Whenever we get a budget put before us, it is always accompanied by substantiation sheets to explain exactly why this money is being spent.
I think I have asked in the past: why is it the government can’t submit substantiation sheets along with their supplementary appropriations so that we have a better understanding of the money that we are spending?
I thank Mr. Rumbolt for the excellent suggestion.
If that’s the will of the committee, we can review that.
I really personally don’t see any reason why we can’t, but sometimes the information could be quite detailed or cumbersome and can make our books extraordinarily thick. You could see my binder down here. It’s just one of the binders.
We are open to suggestions if it will help provide clarity.
As I stated before, I suggested this I think it was last year and the year before.
If your binders get thicker, they get thicker, so be it. The more information for us the better, and that’s just a comment.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Rumbolt. That was just a comment.
It’s just a comment as well.
This is the second time now that we’re asking questions to the budgets that we’re being asked to approve and we’re not getting the information that we’re asking for.
I empathize with the minister on your pack, that you have to pack a heavier binder, but maybe your colleagues in cabinet could maybe provide better briefing notes for you.
At the same time, I can’t help but notice that this is the second time now that we’re asking questions on a budget line that we can’t get a response to.
Minister Peterson, would you care to comment?
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I personally don’t have any problem carrying heavy binders.
I can probably carry up to 70 to 80 lbs. per arm, properly packed in bags.
Again, it’s hard to anticipate all the information that a standing committee will ask.
I have commented to my officials that the quality of briefing notes that we are getting from some officials or some departments are not up to our standard.
They put me and other ministers on the hot seat. We apologize. We don’t have that information because it’s hard to anticipate all the information that you require.
In this particular case, I apologize. We probably should have had that information. The minister indicated that she doesn’t.
I don’t have that information here. As the Minister of Finance, I don’t get the level of information that the individual minister in a department might have.
If it helps, Mr. Chairman, I can ask my Deputy Minister of Finance to make a few comments on this particular area.
We identified in the Department of Finance that there was a person year that transferred over from the Department of Human Resources and that we didn’t need that position anymore.
As a result, that position ended up being vacant. The person transferred out to another area of the government.
We have taken a look at the Department of Family Services and we determined that we probably needed to transfer between all of the other areas about ten and a half PYs, if you can imagine half a PY, Mr. Chairman.
We transferred two positions that actually have incumbents in them and they’re moving over to the Department of Family Services.
This funding here was just money that was on the compensation and benefits line that the Department of Family Services has seen fit to use in their funding area of residential care, which is a budget line for them.
It’s a program that they deliver. We did not ask them what specifically they were going to spend the money for. We just are aware that they’re using it in the residential care section of Family Services.
That’s the best explanation I can give, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Hickes, are you satisfied? Mr. Hickes. No?
Mr. Enook: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation) This is a substantial amount of money to me.
If it’s over a dollar, it’s a lot of money to me.
This is a request by Family Services. Did they substantiate why they wanted it like that? Did you see it?
I know that you said that you don’t have it, but I think you’re aware of it.
Here we are and you want us to say yes to it and you don’t have any information or details about it.
You should know the details.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask, perhaps to the Minister of Finance or through the Minister of Finance to the Minister of Family Services, if we take a 15-minute break, would you be able to get the information?
I’ll have to ask the Minister of Family Services. Is 15 minutes long enough for you to get information from your officials to provide an answer to Mr. Enook’s question?
I think I know the answer, but I don’t want to mislead anybody.
When Family Services started out on its own, they were lacking PY money.
This is an important matter. It’s got to do with residential care. We should take a break and get the information.
This money is in the proposal from Family Services and the Minister of Family Services should know what it’s for as she signed it herself.
Her reply is that she wants to take a break to get the information.
I am asking, Mr. Chairman, if we can take a 15-minute break to get that information.
You’re asking for 15… .  Thank you.
>>Committee recessed at 17:28 and resumed at 17:43
Answer to the question, Minister Peterson.
Minister Ugyuk is going to respond to the question.
Every year, we ask for a budget to pay for the expenses for people who have to be taken care of outside of Nunavut.
The money coming from the Department of Finance would help pay for the residential care part of the (interpretation ends) out-of-territory placement. (interpretation) I hope that is understandable.
I don’t really understand.
That substantial amount of money would come from the Department of Finance to the Department of Family Services to be used for residential care outside of Nunavut for those who have to taken care of outside of Nunavut.
If I understood it correctly, $159,000 was from the finance department’s budget. What did you take off in order to find that money? What other program or something did you take off to get that money?
Mr. Chairman, the Department of Finance deleted that position from our department.
If I understand it correctly, this $159,000 was a person year. He stated that it was a position in English.
It was a position and it’s no longer a position and it’s going to be added into the residential care money. You erased that position and are using the money now for residential care instead.
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, Mr. Chairman, that is correct. Two of the positions were incumbent.
They were positions that had people in the positions, employees, and one was not incumbent. There was no position, so it was available to delete. We didn’t require it.
We’re trying to help the Department of Family Services. The area of residential care services is an area that traditionally requires lot of funding because we do send a lot of people down south for residential care.
Thank you, hon. minister. Just to request for more clarity, this would be more for residential care, for a service, not a position.
The $159,000 is a lot of money in my opinion.
Does it mean that because we have to send so many people outside of Nunavut and we want to send so many people out of Nunavut that you need this exorbitant amount of extra money? Is that what it means?
I thank Mr. Enook for the question and his concern.
Yes, if we didn’t delete the position and transfer that money to allow them to use it for residential care, then it’s very likely that if they were sending people out to residential care, if they didn’t have the funding, they would have to do a supplementary request, regardless, to get additional funding.
The simple fact of the matter is that we do have people in Nunavut who require care. We don’t have the facilities or expertise up here and we do have to provide them with that care. In most cases, that care is in the south and it is very expensive care.
This $159,000 for residential care is what it looks like. Who are we talking about? Who needs residential care?
People in the hospital? Is it people in foster care? Can you tell us which ones we are talking about?
I don’t have that level of detail here, but I do recall from my days as the Minister of Health, which included social services, typically it would be for children who were sent down to facilities in the south for care. There’s Health.
Health and social services were under one department, but social services, they have people who had to go into care down south as well.
On the medical side, you have residential facilities down south where people from Nunavut will be sent down south for, for example, the Selkirk facility in Winnipeg. There are people in other facilities across Nunavut.
So whether it’s family services or health, we do have to send people down south.
Through you and through the Minister of Finance, I would like to redirect the question to the Minister of Family Services because I want to find out exactly which category we’re talking about.
Minister Peterson, would you defer the question?
I will defer that question to the Minister of Family Services.
I don’t have the level of detail.
It is a request to transfer the money from the Department of Finance to the Department of Family Services for residential care outside of the territory.
That’s all we have here.
We do know that there are children down there and there are other clients being cared for in southern institutions.
I don’t have the level of detail, but this money is going to be transferred from one department to another to provide for residential care.
I would like to make a motion at this time to report progress.
Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the guests.
Your committee has been considering Bills 4, 5, and 6 and would like to report that Bills 4, 5, and 6 are immediately ready for third reading.
Mr. Speaker, I move that the Report of the Committee of the Whole be agreed to. (interpretation) Thank you.