EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
You have that little number 6 on there says the explanation goes on at the bottom, applications amounting to 19 million dollars pending federal government approval.
Is it possible to get that list just for our information.
Hon. Jack Anawak: Yes, we can give you that list but again, that doesn’t necessarily mean that it is going to be approved.
We are expecting an announcement from Nancy’s office in the next couple of days on how much of this money we might get.
So an announcement is imminent.
But we have to wait for our MP to make it.
But we can provide the list.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you. 7-15 information item.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): Under 7-16, Land Administration, Nunavut Land Claims Agreement and this program is designed to run through 1993-2003.
Is there no funding available for this after 2003.
Hon. Jack Anawak (interpretation): That's the way that the Agreement reads that it would be there for 10 years, and after the 10 years is up then there is going to have to be renegotiations between the Nunavut Government and DIAND.
Chairperson (interpretation): 7-15. 7-14.
Under page 7-17, is that just for information.
Chairperson (interpretation): Do you have a question on Kivalliq region.
Mr. Arvaluk (interpretation): Yes.
Under utilities.
Under Kivalliq they did not get anything, why is this.
There's nothing in there, there's no mistake but there's just nothing in there.
Hon. Jack Anawak (interpretation): I have just been given the information that it's not needed for the Kivalliq region.
Mr. Arvaluk (interpretation): My question was why.
What's the reason, there has to be a reason.
Hon. Jack Anawak (interpretation): Mike Rafter can explain that.
Chairperson (interpretation): Go ahead Mr. Rafter.
Mr. Rafter: In previous years there had been a portion of budget under utilities for all regions.
It was reduced this year in the amount of 1 thousand dollars per PY and transferred to Department of Public Works for the administration of payment of telecommunications.
Other than that there's no explanation other than it's not required.
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): Maybe because they are using qulliks.
Chairperson (interpretation): That was just a silly remark.
Because there is nothing in there, in the Kivalliq region, I think I understand what the explanation is.
Isn't there anything that, are they not going to be using utilities because there's nothing, there is no figure on this under Kivalliq region.
Hon. Jack Anawak (interpretation): It is just not needed.
Like this is not just for Community Government and Transportation.
There was a budget in the past but it is not needed any more so that is why it is blank.
Chairperson (interpretation): If there are no more questions from the members we can get back to total O&M, 13 million.
Chairperson (interpretation): Total expenditures, 16 million.
If we can get back to 7-5.
Detail of expenditures, total operations and maintenance, 55 million, 414 thousand.
Some Members: Agreed.  Chairperson (interpretation): Opposed.
Carried. Total expenditures 78 million, 364 thousand. Agreed.
Thank you Mr. Minister and your officials, if you want to say a final comment.
I just want to thank the members of the Legislative Assembly and we have worked quite hard.
My officials have worked hard to put this budget together and I thank them very much.
Anthony Saez and Doug Sitland and Mike Rafter and I would especially like to thank my Deputy Minister Mike Ferris who has worked very hard.
He knows what he is doing and does his job well for Community Government and Transportation.
I would also like to say that the Inuit staff that we have are getting more in number under Community Government and Transportation and we are trying to hire them as much as we can as long as they know they are there.
I would also like to thank my fellow cabinet members and thank you very much and we will see you next year.
We will now take a 15 minute break.
We will be back in fifteen minutes.
>>Committee recessed at 6.14 p.m. and resumed at 6.33 p.m.
Bill 2 - Supplementary Appropriation Act No. 2, 2000-2001
We are now going to deal with Bill 2.
I'd like to ask Minister Ng if he has opening remarks.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Thank you for the opportunity to appear before the Committee of the Whole to discuss the Government of Nunavut's Supplementary Appropriation No. 2 for the fiscal year 2000/2001.
The purpose of the Supplementary Appropriation Bill is to provide additional funding for the Government of Nunavut for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2001.
Authority is requested for a total of 12 million 551 dollars in additional appropriations.
It is made up of 9 million 985 thousand dollars for O&M expenditures and 2 million 566 thousand dollars for capital expenditures.
The O&M appropriation requirement includes 850 thousand dollars for increased costs of the Territorial Power Support Program, 5 million 864 thousand dollars for increased costs associated with telecommunications and informatics operations, 2 million 65 thousand dollars related to the fuel price increases, 1 million 568 thousand dollars for the increased cost of the Municipal Operating Assistance Program and Water and Sewer Services program.
And 138 thousand dollars for the impact of the new collective agreement with the Federation of Nunavut Teachers for the professional development fund.
The capital appropriation requirements include 500 thousand dollars for the Kimmirut arena project, and 2 million 66 thousand dollars to complete the 100 public housing units.
Thank you Mr. Chairman, that concludes my opening remarks.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Ng. I would like to ask the minister if he would have witnesses appear in front of the committee.
Sergeant-At-Arms please bring in the witnesses.
Thank you, minister please introduce your witnesses.
To my right is the Deputy Minister Bob Vardy, to my left is Mr. Victor Tootoo, Assistant Deputy Minister.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Ng. We can start off with the Bill 2, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2000-2001.
Does the committee have copies.
Turn to page 6.
Total controllership and regional financial services, 850 thousand.
Mr. Arvaluk (interpretation): Just to get some clarification.
Why is finance and administration, looking at the regions, Kivalliq, Qikiqtaaluk, and Kitikmeot, why is it that it is under finance.
Is it money that is going to be provided to the regions.
Mr. Chairman, the funding is held at headquarters but it is distributed by the regional offices.
The amount is for additional increased costs as a result of more usage and demand in the Territorial Power Subsidy Program, for the current fiscal year.
Mr. Arvaluk: Is this for the different departments or for different organizations throughout Nunavut.
Mr. Chairman, the bulk of it is for individual private homeowners.
There is a small component for commercial customers, but that is a very small portion of it.
By and large it is for individual homeowners.
Mr. Arvaluk: Mr. Chairman is that then the same wording as the diesel fuel stabilization rider, something.
Is that similar kind of usage.
No it wouldn't be.
It's for additional increased demands for the Territorial Power Support Program.
Chairperson (interpretation): We're on page 6.
Why was it not foreseen, it's pretty close to 1 million bucks.
How come it wasn’t foreseen during budget preparations.
Primarily, it's a combination of things.
Increased usage and increased rates that caused amounts required for the subsidy to go up Mr. Chairman.
Chairperson (interpretation): You want to continue Mr. Arvaluk.
On page 6, questions.
Are we on page 6.
There's extra funding of 850 thousand dollars for the increased costs associated with the Territorial Power Subsidy Program.
How is it subsidised.
Could that be clarified.
Mr. Chairman, it's based on the first 700 kilowatt hours for residential customers that they would be subsidized at currently, from the Yellowknife power rate.
So the difference between whatever the community rate is and the Yellowknife rate is what the government of Nunavut provides as a subsidy.
At 700 kilowatt hours.
For commercial purposes, it's 1000 kilowatt hours, Mr. Chairman.
What do you mean by commercial purposes.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Private businesses, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): Private businesses owned by the Power Corporation.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Mr. Chairman, private businesses operating in Nunavut with annual gross revenues of 2 million dollars or less, so it's to help out small businesses.
These businesses that are owned in Nunavut, not owned by the Power Corporation but other businesses being run in Nunavut.
Hon. Kelvin Ng (interpretation): Yes.
Homeowners, how will it show that the homeowners are getting subsidies.
How do we know if we are getting that if we get a power bill is it going to that place.
I guess that’s the question.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Yes, for private homeowners, it shows up directly on your bill.
It shows the territorial power subsidy.
So it comes right off their amount that they have to pay otherwise the amount would be larger.
Finance and administration. Operations and maintenance. Not previously authorized.
Total comptrollership and finance services, 850 thousand.
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): I have a question.
I do not think I could agree on these without getting clarification.
I would like to make a few comments if it is okay with you Mr. Chairman.
Chairperson (interpretation): You will have to go by the page.
Do not go off track.
You could make a brief comment.
If I go off track you could correct me.
The amount that was approved last year is being raised and if we are going to be doing this every year I think we may be going into a deficit.
For 2001 for instance, when we have to approve not previously authorized amounts, I think they are added into the supplementary appropriation.
If we are going to be asked to approve items like this every year we may go into debt.
Is this the way it is normally done.
Chairperson (interpretation): Would you like to respond. Mr. Ng.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Just to let the member that yes that is how we have done it in the past practice and current practice.
If we are going to do this annually and approve funding like this will we be going into debt.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: That is why we bring it to add to the budget so you do not go over the budget.
It is an approved appropriation within the legislation, in the Assembly, those are the laws that we operate with.
I think there is 650 million or so that is our overall budget.
Is this included in that.
Mr. Ng. Could you explain to Mr. Iqaqrialu how this is done while we are dealing with the supplementary appropriation.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Mr. Chairman, if the supplementary appropriations are approved it gets added to the main estimates that was previously approved so in effect we raise the expenditure levels of the government.
So, for example, because we have an accumulated surplus as of now, it would reduce the accumulated surplus of the Government of Nunavut by approving this because it is an additional expenditure that is a current year budget.
Chairperson (interpretation): Finance and administration, operations and maintenance, not previously authorized.
Chairperson (interpretation): Total department, 850 thousand, Agreed.
Public Works and Services, operations and maintenance.
Not previously authorized, total informatics, 5 million 864 thousand.
Mr. Arvaluk (interpretation): I don't see anything here for capital items for example 5 million 864 thousand, I don't see anything that would be used for capital or something that we haven't seen or anticipated.
It just says operations here, when it's for operations, why is it over 5 million 864 thousand.
Primarily Mr. Chairman the Informatics needs of Public Works are as a result partially of inadequate budgets that were initially given to the department. But in addition to that, and the fact that decentralization itself was accelerated to try and meet those demands, or expectations that the communities would require additional infrastructure to get those communities up and ready from the perspective of informatics requirements.
So the Informatics requirements in those decentralized communities are now complete, there will be no additional cost associated with that.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: No, Mr. Chairman, that's not the case, as you know once you have the systems developed there's always an ongoing operating cost and maintenance cost and upgrading cost, so it's not as if it's a one time expenditure, because of ongoing requirements in maintenance, matters that require funding.
Mr. Arvaluk: Are you still talking about approximately 16 million dollars a year.
Yes, the member is correct.
Did I hear you saying correctly that Public Works was under funded or under budgeted by 5 million 864 thousand on purpose or was this a complete oversight or was is it purely on basis on that the decentralized offices have been accelerated and require that additional funding.
Mr. Chairman, what I meant was when their budget wasn't adequate, given the accelerated requests and needs because of the accelerating decentralization, for two certain communities and the fact that these costs weren't anticipated actually and not part of their initial budget for the current fiscal year.
Will we have a better forecasting system for those decentralized communities especially requiring informatics to be provided to them.
I think this is the second time in a row now since the inception of this government that we required not previously authorized or supplementary appropriation in this magnitude of around 5 million dollars.
So are we going to have a better handle on this in the future on dealing with the informatics program.
Mr. Chairman, we hoped to be in that situation but unfortunately this program like many other programs has excessive demands and it's a matter of trying to prioritize what can be delivered within existing budgets.
There has been a new information technology steering committee structured to try to better plan out for the development of our informatics requests and needs throughout government wide.
Having said that, it will mean though again, there will be some decisions where some programs will go longer and some communities may take longer to get up and running when we try to constrain the amount that's being spent in this area.
Mr. Havioyak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 5.8 million dollars is quite big.
Is the detailed information available on this amount, where it's going, what it's for.
It would be nice to see that information here.
I did get some additional information from Public Works and if I may, there's 2.5 million dollars going towards a wide area network, which is telecommunications circuits, that link buildings and communities and a large part of the GN’s core offices.
So those are the decentralized communities but also including schools, health centres, libraries and community learning centres in those same communities.
There's 400 thousand dollars for upgrading telephone equipment.
There's another 138 thousand dollars for fibre optic line rentals. Two million 578 thousand dollars approximately for the management of core computer systems and telecommunication networks across Nunavut.
That was tendered and contracted to IT service companies.
The main contract is IBM, 190 thousand dollars for specialized technical consultants which supports the financial applications, the payroll and Free-Balance.
And also, finally, 54 thousand dollars, Mr. Chairman for internet access service providers to supply gateways to worldwide internet for the institutional wide area network.
So those are some of the larger or the main components in the 5 million 864 thousand dollars, Mr. Chairman.
Some of the things that you said that are on the list, it would be nice again to get that list from you very shortly, just for detail.
You went through it very quickly, but it would be something in the future that these things are put back in there again just for information.
Mr. Chairman, after going before regular members’ caucus, there was a couple of requests for information and the other one was the distribution of the forced growth dollars for Community Government & Transportation.
I do have all that.
The reason why I haven't provided it is it hasn't been translated.
As you know, the third item was the telehealth locations was the third item that was requested and I have that as well but the formal document hasn't been translated yet.
That should hopefully be readily available tomorrow.
I would be more than willing to obviously speak to it during this review.
The questions that I wanted to pose are already answered.
Ms. Williams: I wanted to ask the same sort of questions that MLA Havioyak asked, that I think we need to have the detailed list.
I would suggest or say that before approving Appropriation Bill.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: It is a matter of, I guess, how members want to handle it.
I would suggest that we have the information I am willing to give it out but the normal practice has been to have it translated before giving it out.
If members wanted it only in English then I am willing to provide that but in respect of all our colleagues I am just abiding by the standard practice of the House of having translated copies available so that all members are able to receive it at the same time.
Now, I would say that, when all members always have the opportunity to address issues, I do not know if there is anything that is before the committee that is controversial that would require the Bill could be held up given the fact that, you know, it has gone through the regular members caucus and there were no major issues that I was aware of except for providing some additional detail which we have or just having translated in time to provide today.
So, again, it is up to the members but I would be, I guess, hesitant to just hold everything up because of, unless there is a major issue, that the members feel requires that it be dealt with.
I think we learned from this that when we are asked to approve something we need to have the full information maybe from here on we will have that.
Well I don't know if the members, what other information she wants.
If she could maybe convey that to me I will try to provide it but I am trying to provide the information that was requested yesterday during the regular members review.
I am going to leave it at that but I would like further clarification.
I would like further information in the coming years I think that we should have proper planning.
After this experience that we have learned from, because 5 million dollars, almost 6 million dollars is a large amount of money.
Perhaps due to poor planning and especially for the decentralized communities and the costs involved I think that this is a learning experience so that we do not do it again.
I would like to have further clarification on what kinds of plans you have done so that we do not have to approve huge amounts of money that are not previously authorized.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Mr. Chairman, it is always that, in the course of a year, any jurisdiction always requires supplementary appropriations because things happen during the course of the year that are unexpected.
No matter how well you try to plan out or map out what you think is going to happen with circumstances beyond the control of governments and individuals.
I would say that we could have not spent a lot of this money but that would have meant that the longer the decentralized communities would not have the capabilities or staff that are in some of those decentralized communities now would not have the accessibility to the rest of the government.
They would be more restricted as far as access goes and that would impede some of the programs.
So that is why we supported going forward, in trying to accelerate, in meeting the expectations in trying to accelerate some the informatics requirements in these decentralized communities.
Another point I guess should be made is this is not Public Works itself that's responsible in respect of not planning adequately, there are a lot of other departments involved that have needs sometimes that come up again during the course of the year.
Public Works is the department that holds the funding for government-wide capital for installation of the informatics requirement.
So it's not just one department, it's government wide and like I said if we had known, obviously we would have fit in the planning of the budget.
But over the course of the year, there are things that happened Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
We're on page 7.
We'll go back to Public Services, operations and maintenance.
Chairperson (interpretation): Opposed. Carried. Total Department, 5 million 864 thousand.
Carried. Turning it over.
To page 8.
Community Government and Transportation, operations and maintenance.
Total Community Government, 2 million, special warrants.
Not previously authorized, 500 thousand.
January 19th, they all have the same dates here and they all talk about hamlets.
Does that mean that all the hamlets in Nunavut area have all gone over budget.
No, this is for the dates, the special warrants that were approved, the date that allows the Department of Community Government & Transportation to legally be able to have those additional 2 million dollars for funding to the municipalities for an increase in the cost of fuel. There are four different categories.
There's one thing I don't understand, special warrants are often requested, if for example a hamlet is going to be short of money, why is it that Cabinet took out, for example the arena that's going to be built in Kimmirut and that's 500 thousand dollars, from a special warrant.
How come we didn't take that from the surplus.
There's 425 thousand that's going out to be taken out, there's four of them, like Mr. Iqaqrialu mentioned, why is it that the money is coming out of a special warrant when there's going to be surpluses, in various department monies.
Mr. Chairman, the special warrant is there to authorize the departments to advance the money, the dollars there to the municipalities under this category.
But ultimately, all the special warrants under the supplementary appropriation, it all comes from the accumulated surplus of the government at year-end or prior years.
Chairperson (interpretation): Community Government & Transportation, operations and maintenance.
Total community government, 2 million dollars.
Not previously authorized, negative 500 thousand dollars.
Chairperson (interpretation): Total department, 2 million dollars.
Chairperson (interpretation): Not previously authorized, negative 500 thousand dollars.
Department of Education, operations and maintenance.
Not previously authorized, 138 thousand dollars.
This 138 thousand dollars to provide funding for the Federation of Teachers Professional Development Fund.
I would like to get further clarification on that, is that to provide teachers further training or is this to provide training for individuals to become teachers.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Yes, Mr. Chairman, this is funding as a result of the collective agreement change and it is for ongoing financial support for the professional development of teachers.
So they have to be in the profession, teaching, in order to qualify for professional development.
For others who would like to become teachers, is this provided for people or individuals who are not certified teachers.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: For individuals who are working towards becoming teachers, there are other programs through student financial assistance.
The Department of Education supports those individuals.
Although the Department of Education provides that funding, why do we have this supplementary.
Mr. Chairman, for the changes to the collective agreement, the difference is in order to meet the obligations of the collective agreement, the deal that was reached with the Federation of Nunavut teachers.
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): So this is the one for the teachers union.
This to provide additional funding to the Federation of Nunavut Teachers Professional Development fund.
Chairperson (interpretation): We're on page 9.
Education, operations and maintenance.
Not previously authorized, early childhood education and school services, 138 thousand dollars.
Chairperson (interpretation): Total department, 138 thousand dollars.