EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
After the program functional review and then for the business case the proposed facility comes forward to the government, to cabinet, before the standing committee for us to look at.
Then they would not go forward.
That could be the optimum Mr. Chairperson it would be 18 months that is why I said it could be 18 months.
That is why I said it could be 18, it could be 36 whatever.
We really do not know what contingencies are in place.
The Member will remember with the P-3 facility as an example we tried to put in place in Arviat.
The whole idea was to finish off last year but there was concern with the soil and delayed it for nine months.
So things happen.
So I am trying to give a time frame and a window.
That is why we need to move forward on this incinerator now Mr. Chairperson.
So we will have it in place because I do not know what the time frame will be.
Optimally it would be optimistically 18 months.
But it could be 24 or 36 months.
No one has the ability to see that far and see how the different stages will go.
That is why I gave the indication.
I hope that clarifies to the Member on that earlier statement., Thank you, Mr. Chairperson.
Mr. McLean: Ma’na I hope for the residents of Iqaluit and the Baffin Island it is in 18-24 months because the facility is in dire straight.
The point I am trying to get to here Mr. Chairperson is we talk about spending money wisely.
I have to question the minister that spending 1.2 million dollars on a incinerator in a hospital that we are replacing or renovating and then 18-24 months later having to build another incinerator in another facility.
To me it does not look very wise.
That is just my impression of an unwise investment in dollars.
Is there any way that you put this incinerator in the old facility it can be put in and removed into the new facility.
Is that what the government planned on this one.
I thank the Member for the question and given me an opportunity to clarify the situation regarding the incinerator.
The original capital cost for the replacement Mr. Chairperson the replacement on an incinerator using the present site.
Now Mr. Chairperson with the proposed new hospital facility it may Mr. Chairperson, it may be wise to consider building a free stand alone incinerator which will be accessible to both the old and the existing facilities.
That is part of the money that we are voting on right now.
So we can actually look at what is most conducive for the existing facility and the new facility so we can actually do that.
I think that is what the Member is asking us to be proactive in the planning of this incinerator so it will not be redundant in a year or two years down the road.
I think that is the level of comfort we are trying to reach right now.
That is exactly what I wanted to hear.
That we are not throwing 1.2 million dollars away.
I am hoping that he would take that option and not think of any other option.
Cause like I say I feel it is a total waste of dollars if we are putting in to that old facility and not being able to utilise it again.
My next question is regarding the 250 thousand for the children’s group home expansion in future years another million dollars.
Can the Minister explain to me what this is for please.
Mr. Chairperson the current facility is utilised very extensively.
However major modifications to the building are required to meet the client needs.
Some examples of the Mr. Chairperson would be wider hallways, wheelchair accessible doors to the rooms.
With the increasing population, the capacity of the current facility will have to be increased to avoid costly southern placement requiring residential care.
So if I do not and the department and the government does not upgrade the facility many of our children who are placed in this type of home would have to be sent to the south.
I do no think that is acceptable to me as minister or to the Members of this Assembly so that is the idea of the expansion of the facility.
As the m ember is aware, I think there is one in his community.
Thank you for your answer so it is nice to hear that we are trying to keep our children in Nunavut cared my Nunavummiut.
The next Item is wellness centre construction. 50 thousand dollars.
Can the Minister can give me a brief explanation what this project is for.
Mr. Chairperson the wellness centre program is what we would call ambulatory care mental health program.
Now it is extremely popular and attracted a large number of clients.
Now the existing facility we are using is a lease facility.
It is costly to maintain and requires major renovations.
Mr. Chairperson it is actually at risk of being closed by the health inspector.
The previous Baffin regional health and social services board did not have adequate funds to provide an effective mental health treatment program in the Apex facility.
Perhaps if the board had sufficient funds it would have been interesting in running a residential treatment program as part of a comprehensive mental health program.
So the idea here Mr. Chairperson is to look at the existing facility that is in place which is a leased facility and to see if there is a need to a build a stand alone wellness centre facility for the mental health program that we are attempting to run.
Which there is a huge need in the community for.
You explain to me that you are dealing with a lease facility at this point.
That is not up to acceptable standards for the government.
I suspect there has been a leased signed years ago when it was not acceptable building standards.
Has the person that you are leasing from been approached to bring it up to acceptable standards thus saving us capital dollars.
Just a hypothetical question I just wanted to know.
Mr. Chairperson the owner of the building is actually deceased.
The building is on an over-hold through the estate of the deceased owner.
A letter has been signed off.
That is basically what we have in place for the lease of this facility.
Now again it was with the Baffin regional health and social services board.
We have inherited that as of April 1 when we integrated the health boards.
I do not now Mr. Chairperson would be want to go forward and fix up the facility.
We pay quite a bit of rent right now.
I think the opportunity presenting itself that would be better to actually have our own stand-alone facility.
It would be more cost effective.
Indeed there would be economy of scale in doing that.
I can agree with the Member on the economy and scales.
I can argue versus ownership versus leases.
We just went through that with the new hospital here it is going to be build-lease.
There are many more dollars on that.
My last question on the capital for the Baffin region is replacement of material management building.
Could the Minister give me a brief outline what this is about cause it looks like total capital project of 600 thousand dollars.
The material management building is actually a warehouse.
It is the medical supply warehouse for the Baffin regional hospital.
It is extremely old.
The floor Mr. Chairperson is a safety risk.
The structure is going to become the medical supply warehouse for Nunavut.
After integration of the health boards which occurred a few weeks ago on April 1.
So to bring it forward to that area.
To fix the floor which is a safety concern.
We have proposed the 150 thousand dollars in the budget for this year to begin work on that.
You have to excuse me Mr. Minister.
Is that owned by the government.
Is that owned by the government of Nunavut assets.
Yes it is. It is a government asset.
As I said before it is extremely old.
It is one of the oldest buildings in Iqaluit and the flooring is quite rotten and falling out.
Therefore and thus the reason for moving forward for building a new warehouse which will House all of our medical supplies and so on for the government of Nunavut.
Itsivauta I am flabbergasted and aghast that we have so many buildings in Iqaluit that are falling down and have rotten floors.
You would never know that by driving through the community.
It is nothing but new skyscrapers and beautiful buildings.
That is all the comments I have on the Iqaluit capital at this point.
Chairperson (interpretation): This was more of a comment than a question.
Baffin region.
On page 10-5.
Total Baffin region. 1 million 695 thousand.
Kivalliq region, 499 thousand.
Mr. McLean: This is just a question to the Minister again.
We are replacing the health centre in Igloolik and it cost 5 million 150 thousand dollars.
I look at the health centre in Repulse Bay 7 million 295 thousand dollars.
So there is a 2 million dollar difference.
Can the Minister give me a brief reason why.
First let me say Mr. McLean is flabbergasted and aghast and upset about the skyscrapers in Iqaluit.
As the Member knows there are no skyscrapers in Iqaluit.
The biggest building we have is the three story based on the by-law we have in Iqaluit.
The brown building which is the highest building in Town and probably the highest building in Nunavut.
But it would not qualify as a skyscraper.
If the Member would like me to give him a tour of the total Town of Iqaluit and see some of the serious issues we are dealing with in the community I would be very pleased to do that.
After saying that Mr. Chairperson I would like to answer his question on the differential cost between Repulse Bay and Igloolik facilities.
The different types of cost as the Member knows are brought forward.
In this case, in Repulse Bay there are different freight costs involved and different topography when you are trying to build.
This has to be factored to the costs.
The actual different design and everything being presented I do not have that level of detail with me Mr. Chairperson.
But on Repulse Bay for example, the facility was constructed 17 years ago.
It is a barn shape building where the roof is part of the exterior siding and it is very high maintenance.
There are on-going problems with water damage within the building itself. The facility has a fixed size program areas where which were made to fit resulting in some areas now being dysfunctional.
There is no space for the social worker and some of the concurrent positions in that building.
A team of technical consultants from public works and service headquarters in Yellowknife over a year ago helped us out in looking at designs and so on.
They would ultimately supply a complete architectural structural, mechanical, and electrical review early this year.
A needs assessment of functional programs have to be written for the new facility.
Igloolik is similar, I think the cost we talked about before is basically on the actual construction and where is located and so on in Igloolik.
I know the Member is very familiar with having been there.
I think he might have actually live there at one time.
That is my understanding if he wants more level of detail on the Igloolik cost and difference between the two facilities.
I can get that for the Member and provide it later.
Mr. McLean:
Where I come from with anything over two stories is a skyscraper and in Baker Lake, we recently received our first elevator.
I know that Iqaluit outshines us in that department also along with a lot of housing projects.
The reason why I asked the question is that if the Minister was following the design standards and criteria.
That are we going to getting out to a point where we are going to go to a different design on health centres in Nunavut.
Rather than stay with off the shelf package.
So are we going to design a different health centre for every community in Nunavut.
Or are we going to try to stay to sort of a reasonable standard design.
Mr. Chairperson I conquer with the Member.
I do not believe there is any need to go out and design something different in every other community.
After saying that Mr. Chairperson there are sometimes local needs and the local level as the Member is aware.
That should be reflected on the Bill.
I had the opportunity as you know Mr. Chairperson to attend the opening the wonderful facility in Gjoa Haven.
The new health centre facility which I must say is aesthetically beautiful and the staff really enjoy working there.
I think that is the type of facility that we are trying to bring forward.
But after saying that there are standards and criteria that had to be followed.
In all cases the evidence point out that has been done in both the planning of these two facilities.
Maybe some concerns with the structure.
What has to be removed in the current location.
Where the lot maybe located which costs more money.
For example, there is a vacant lot already prepared in Igloolik and there is not one in Repulse Bay.
So those are some of the things that could be factored into the cost.
As I said Mr. Chairperson, I do not have that available with me right now.
I would suggest if the member was a little bit taller he would know the difference between the skyscrapers and the mobile elevators.
In Keewatin region I have heard and seen that the Keewatin region have been requesting to get their regional hospital for quite sometime now.
Have you considered constructing a regional hospital in the Keewatin region.
There are some items here that are just going to be renovations.
I do not think that there will be any construction of a hospital. So I was wondering if your department have been considering building a hospital in the Keewatin region.
Mr. Picco would you like to respond.
When we were in Rankin Inlet sitting.
I had an opportunity along with the Premier and the MLAs representing Rankin Inlet and some of the MLA in the Keewatin region and the finance minister to attend a public meeting about the express desire of the people in Rankin to have a health centre constructed there. We would be able to look at some opportunities for it to become a regional health facility for the Keewatin region.
Yes Mr. Chairperson we are moving forward on that plan.
As the Member knows the Honourable Kelvin Ng, Minister of Finance is involved in that file quite liberally.
It is not in the budget but you do see there, as an example Mr. Chairman, is for example a planning study for a new medical boarding home in Rankin.
We are seeing more people going to Rankin for example with our birthing clinic.
The plan is progressing in regards to the Keewatin facility and the short answer to the member's question is yes there is a plan under way.
For the Baffin region there are fifteen of us that come to Iqaluit to the regional hospital.
We have one regional hospital.
Why in regards to the P3 projects are they trying to build hospital-like facilities.
Why are the other ones in Rankin and Cambridge Bay and this one is in Arviat.
Why is this the case.
Why can't they build a real hospital that can be utilised by the region.
Mr. Chairman, as the member knows, because he was quite vociferous with the government operations committee and indeed the infrastructure committee which I chaired in the previous assembly which reviewed in minute detail the P3 process efforts from the Coles Group and Arthur Anderson on the P3 process, there are pros and cons to all processes.
After saying that as the member knows, if we use the sliding figure of 25 million dollars for Iqaluit and 14 for the other two facilities that is 53 million dollars for the three health facilities that I think everyone in this House and in Nunavut realize that we need.
The total budget of the Nunavut Government capital is only 60 million dollars.
So how would you be able to finance these facilities.
By putting these facilities in place, in Rankin, and in Cambridge Bay it would mean we would be flying less people to Winnipeg.
This means we would be flying fewer people to Yellowknife and Edmonton and those cost savings Mr. Chairman, would be put back into health systems in Nunavut.
For example Mr. Chairman, we are medivacing more people out of the Keewatin Region to the south than we are in the Baffin.
The Baffin Region has double the population.
Well in the Baffin region we have a hospital and many people don't have to go south because they can come here to Iqaluit.
So, yes sometimes you have to spend a little bit more money in the front end to make money in the back end.
Those facilities that are being planned and the member is right, they are being planned under P3 because of the cost, and some of the opportunities the P3 present.
So, I hope that help answers the member's excellent question.
Chairperson Thank you Mr. Minister.
At this time under page 10-5, Kivalliq Region.
Total 599 thousand dollars.
Mr. McLean posed a very good question and I was not aware of the response.
Maybe Igloolik people are about sixteen hundred there and the other ones are in Repulse Bay six to seven hundred.
However, this health centre it looks like it is going to be smaller for Igloolik than it will be for Repulse Bay and I'm wondering why that is because I didn't quite understand the response so I would like to get a further clarification to that.
Hon. Ed Picco: Thank you Mr. Chairman and I thank the member for giving me the opportunity to clarify.
What I am trying to say is that the dollar figure put forward for any capital project is only part of the picture for the facility or the building that you are trying to construct.
In this case for example, I told the member and committed to the member for Baker Lake, that I don't have the detail here right now.
But I will commit to bringing it forward.
I gave some examples of why the costs could be more.
It could be more expensive to ship things into Repulse Bay.
The topography of Repulse Bay is a lot different than Igloolik.
Igloolik is more flat.
Maybe the lot is already available in Igloolik and therefore the lot doesn't have to be developed.
In Repulse maybe they have to develop a whole new lot and have to remove the total health centre that is in place.
There could be factors involved with regards to the facility in Igloolik.
But Mr. Chairman, as you know, when we did the Gjoa Haven facility, based on population and based on a program functional review, the facility that Igloolik needs, they will get.
I went to Igloolik with the member from Amittuq last spring and that was one of the requests that came forward and we are very pleased to put that in our budget.
I will get back to the members of this House with information for the difference in costs.
I will get back to the member with some of the reasons for that.
So it seems the designs are going to be the same for those two facilities.
But it could cost more for shipping materials but the actual designs of the buildings will be the same.
Is that correct Mr. Chairman.
What we had to do earlier is a program functional review, and what a program functional review does is that it gives you the design.
So, for example, when I was in Igloolik the present facility has residences attached, I think five.
Nurses live in that facility.
In the new facility will we build apartments so the nurses will be staying there.
Is that the situation in Repulse Bay. I'm not sure.
So the different design will take into place what the building will be used for.
For example in Igloolik, it is a larger population and may need a larger in-patient room or maybe they need a larger examining room.
Maybe they need more space for a social worker, CHR etc.
So the buildings may be different in size and different in scope based on what the need is in each particular community.
Therefore and thus that is how you do your design.
I can't say Mr. Chairman that they will be both identical in design.
I can say the program functional review is based upon input from the community, and the committee that we are trying to set up at the community level in the community of Igloolik and Repulse Bay will be one that they have had input on.
Mr. Barnabas (interpretation): Thank you, final supplementary to my question.
I probably got a partial response to it already but this concerns patients and escorts.
I am wondering if there might be other assistance that can be provided.
For instance, for handicapped people or the elderly.
If these persons are travelling down south it seems that there could be other people that could escort them or that can be on hand to assist them.
For instance, the Minister recognized the driver because he was easily recognisable to have a driver at one time when the government still used to have funds.
Now a lot of the time we hear stories about elders travelling on their own and losing their way around the cities.
I wonder if that is the case.
Chairperson: (interpretation): Do you have a response to that Mr. Picco.
With capital issues here and the escort travel and patient services it is probably an O&M issue.
This afternoon in opening comments there were several questions from members that we had answered some questions on escort travel.
Again to recap as I said earlier and I think it is a good point the member is making.
We tried to put in place a regime where, and we have been working on it, when a person is escorted out of their community they are met now at the gate.
For example in Ottawa they are escorted through and they have bilingual people in place at the airport to make sure the people are picked up and brought directly to the boarding home.
As I said before Mr. Chairman, we operate boarding homes in Churchill and Winnipeg Manitoba, Edmonton, Yellowknife, Iqaluit and Ottawa.
So, it is a lot of work to make sure the same system is put in place in all these jurisdictions.
In most of these cases the people running the boarding home are doing so under contract to the government.
So, while we are under this item for capital projects I would encourage you to stay within the Items.
Keewatin Region, total on page 10-5. Total Kivalliq Region, 499 thousand.
Agreed.  Some Members: Agreed.
Chairperson (interpretation): Page 10-6, Health and Social Services detail of capital for the Kitikmeot region total 355 thousand dollars. Total building and works 2 million dollars 649 thousand.
Chairperson (interpretation): On page 10-7, health and social services, branch summary detail of capital directorate total equipment acquisitions for headquarters region, total head quarters region 1 million dollars.
I had to leave on an urgent matter but as it turns out it was not that urgent so I come back right in time.
I think there is a misunderstanding concerning the details for Hall Beach.
Under the 5 thousand dollar Item, I think you talked about that in your opening remarks but this concerns the health and social service committees in our community.
Apparently, they were to be given funding of 5 thousand dollars.
We have other ongoing issues and concerns about whether funding will be provided for community futures, community wellness, and daily operations.
There is a letter to that effect indicating the plans for the Department of Health & Social Services.
Concerning mental health, primary care, and prenatal classes.
I just got this information from Hall Beach and they are wondering how they should be getting their funding.
This would be for the community health and social services committees.
Are they going to have secretaries to work on their day to day operations and I would like to ask these questions while the minister is present.
Mr. Chairman, ultimately that money in the past was transferred by the Baffin Regional and Social Services Board to the community of Hall Beach and now to Nunavut communities through the department of Health and Social Services.
One of the major changes now is Brighter Futures and Community Wellness comes directly from the department of health and then directly to those communities.
The community of Hall Beach for example would be putting together a community wellness plan under the Hamlet and they would be asking for "x" number of dollars directly through the department.
Again that is an O&M issue and I don't know Mr. Chairman if you want to deal with O&M when we are still dealing with capital.
Further comments Mr. Irqittuq.
I am sorry I forgot we are still under capital Items.
Once we come to the O&M budget then we can get back to that question. At this time according to our page numbers, we are on 10-7.
Equipment acquisition, headquarters region.
Total headquarters region 1 million dollars.
This is where we left off. 1 million dollars.
Chairperson (interpretation): Baffin Region, various Baffin equipment and vehicles.
Total Baffin Region 359 thousand.