EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Since all of the social workers are youth workers, right now in Nunavut, there needs to be some programs to prevent some of the things that they deal with maybe the problems with family violence, prevention for family violence and I do understand that a lot of the programs that we have are crisis intervention but we need to also look seriously at prevention and that’s also lacking in this department but it’s their responsibility.
I would also again like to mention social workers.
They are on call, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
We need to have more social workers in place in the communities.
Again, we are getting psychiatric nurses, mental health people, and I’m beginning to think along with some of the people that I’ve talked to that we’ve been labelled as mentally ill people because we are getting more services in that area but no prevention either.
I would also like to briefly mention our Committees of Council in the communities.
I think there is some federal funding in place to run home care through committees of council; however, committees of council are run by the department. In our community, not community so much, all of their tasks have been sort of, this is how you’re going to do things, this is good for you, this is how you should do things, you shouldn’t do that.
Their tasks are in that kind of thinking.
Again, social services are still doing probation and parole, as well as youth work under the Young Offenders Act.
I will be asking later on about how many social workers that we have that are doing probation and parole, which is taking a lot of their time and also conflicting with some of the roles that they have like child welfare worker.
I will just explain a little bit.
If you’re a social worker and you intervene because of child, family problems or the child has been victimised in criminal activities, the social worker’s role is to protect the child under the protection act, protection issue.
Then the person that committed a crime became her or his social worker under her duty also, when the court comes in they are asked to do a pre-sentence report on the offender.
But at the same time they are child welfare workers.
This is conflicting.
They need to look at this very seriously.
So that the social workers are not to do that anymore because the tasks that they are asked to do are too much, plus they have no one to talk to in the community because they are there by themselves.
There’s no other co-worker that they can talk to.
So today when we’re doing the estimates, I’m going to be asking a lot of social work questions because I know it is important and that this department is to do health and social services, not just the health department.
Any more comments from the members?
We can start with the questions from the floor.
If there are no questions on Health and Social Services then thank you, Mr. Minister.
No, I’m just kidding.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): I’m sorry.
Are we going to do page by page now on the Department of Health and Social Services, Mr. Chairman.
Chairperson (interpretation): If it’s the wish of the committee to start asking questions.
Maybe Mr. Havioyak has a comment.
Mr. Havioyak (interpretation): I’m happy to back here.
I just want to inform everyone that my wife is doing okay.
I just want to make two comments.
You have been hearing a lot about these concerns.
Whenever the question period comes up in the House, there’s been a lot of concern about cigarette smoking with the young people and the elderly.
I have been raising this question a number of times, also alcohol.
We should try and inform the public and also our young people because smoking and alcohol and all those addictive drugs, are not healthy.
Okay let’s use cigarette smoking for example, when these younger people start seeing these ads and that smoking is not healthy for anyone and they start to think that maybe I shouldn’t even start smoking to begin with.
So, if we could get the message out to these younger people.
I will be asking some of these questions and how funding is going to be used for Health and Social Services.
In regards to the doctors versus medivacs, I raised these questions last year.
It would be great if each community could have a doctor; maybe this way we wouldn’t be spending so much money on medivacs because if there are doctors in each community maybe we wouldn’t have to send so many patients out.
I know this is not going to be easy.
Regardless, some of these patients have no other choice but to go to Yellowknife or Edmonton to see a specialist.
If we have doctors in each region or in each community maybe we are going to cut down on medivacs and save some money, regional wise.
I raised this concern last year and I will be bringing up this concern again.
Also I will be asking questions in regards to doctors in each region or communities as well as medivacs.
(interpretation ends) Another thing that I want to mention, you talked about the increase to shelter organizations.
It’s good to hear that there’s something happening in that area but the questions would be in the area of O and M and so on.
I’m sure we’ll get some details on that issue.
It’s an issue that my community has been addressing for the last few years.
It’s a need in the community where the protection is needed for an individual that uses such a service.
I just wanted to touch on those three things anyways.
And lastly, the social workers, like one of my colleagues mentioned earlier on, we don’t have enough social workers in our communities and I know the positions are vacant for the last two years and it seems like that it has been put aside and maybe we are good for social workers.
And I hope we have a better approach or, I’m not sure how to say it, but in terms of those positions, we need a better approach, I don’t know how to say it, but fill those positions.
When they need to be filled, I don’t know, maybe it’s not the department’s fault, maybe it’s a problem finding qualified social workers.
I don’t know but it would be an interesting question later today or tomorrow in that area. (interpretation begins) That’s all I have to say Mr. Chairman.
I don’t have too much in the way of general comments but just some things on issues that hopefully I’d like to see the department work towards in the next year and I know some of the things they are probably looking at right now and I encourage them to continue to do so.
One of them is nursing, I think that the minister is quite aware that the cost of agency nurses is tremendous on the department and I think that they should try and continue their efforts to minimize and limit the use of agency nurses.
Maybe by having those agency nurses here compared to the nurses that are indeterminate it’s a very inequitable situation, you know, when you look at it individual by individual.
I think that the more we can try and make it a more equitable playing field for all nurses, make it attractive for nurses to be indeterminate nurses and stay in Nunavut, anything we can do to do that, you know, I support the department in its efforts.
But I think that’s something we need to focus on.
The turnover of nurses in the communities, I know from first hand experience in dealing with a new nurse every time if you have someone that’s chronically ill or is going in all the time, every time you go into the nursing station you’re having to re-explain the same thing that you’ve told three or four nurses before that, every time you go in there.
So you know I think not only in the way of continuity, safety and continuity would be very beneficial to have some more long term indeterminate positions, nurses here in Nunavut so that we’re not getting them in and burning them out and sending them off or just bringing in people for short spurts like we are now.
I encourage the minister and the department, I know he’s making efforts to do that and I encourage him to continue his efforts on that and try and bring forward to his colleagues on cabinet a plan to address that issue a little more.
Another thing, I think it’s been mentioned already, one is that in looking at nursing, maybe we should try to find a way other than just the ten thousand, the bursary that’s there for the nurses, but to try to find some funding similar to the law students to be able to attract and retain nurses in the nursing program.
I know of some nurses, there’s some potential nurses that were in that program that left because they couldn’t afford to stay in the program.
So, I think if we want to have that long term stability in our nursing stations we need to be able to make it attractive for these students to go through and get the training and become nurses.
Another thing I think the minister indicated, a large portion of his budget is eaten up with medical travel. I thing the departments on the right track in the way that it’s looking at it in, I understand in the Kivalliq Region, they’re splitting it up with airlines and getting more of a competitive nature that way.
I think that’s something they should explore in doing here in the Baffin and I don’t know if they’re doing that in the Kitikmeot as well, but I think that they would be probably more beneficial to the department in the long run if competition was there.
You know one airline is going to charge you this much for medivac or for medical travel, they’re always watching each other’s numbers so as long as there is two around you have a chance to have the best bargain that you can to do that.
Another thing that was mentioned also earlier is the fact of the shelters.
I know that the minister is also the Minister responsible for Homelessness, and I think that there needs to be more attention paid to the needs and issues related to the lack of shelters in Iqaluit, not in Iqaluit but in Nunavut and the needs of the homeless throughout Nunavut as well.
It falls under his portfolio.
Also, another area that I think that needs to be looked at and the question maybe if the minister in this whole program review exercise is looking at really truly taking on the social envelope with health and social services, that’s the one component that’s missing from there is income support that’s being run through the Department of Education which is approximately around 25 million dollars of the Education budget.
Maybe, again going back to a phrase that the minister is quite familiar with from the past, is that a holistic approach to the social envelope and trying to find the ways to deliver those services in a more effective and efficient manner to allow us to maximise the dollars that we can put into our programs as a result of that.
That’s it for my general comments.
All the members present have already used their 10 minutes for comments.
We can move onto questions.
You have ten minutes to pose your questions.
I asked earlier before we got into raising questions to the minister, so I’ll raise the question again.
During his opening comments on page 2 he stated last year they had to approve 21 million dollars due to supplementary appropriations for 2001-2002.
There’s an increase of 36 million dollars for 2002-2003.
I’d like to ask the minister if he expects that in 2002-2003, that with this increase they won’t have a deficit.
Hon. Ed Picco: Mr. Chairman, first of all, a point of clarification on the process, usually we have an opportunity to respond to the opening comments of the members, as the minister responsible for the department that’s being reviewed.
I’m wondering if we’ll be doing that today.
I think there were good comments that were made and I would have liked the opportunity to respond.
On the specific question by Mr. Arvaluk, do we expect to have a deficit in 2002/2003? Mr. Chairman, I can’t say if we’re going to have a deficit or not.
What I can say is that in all likelihood, based on previous experience, there is a good possibility that that may occur.
With the extra funding that has been made available to us, which as we said earlier in the opening comments, was for the historic shortfall in funding or the under-basing of the budget, we believe that it should be considerably less than what it has been in the previous two fiscal years.
I would also ask Mr. Chairman, if there’s an opportunity to be able to address the comments made by the members in the review.
Mr. Arvaluk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the minister for his response.
Also, in his opening comments on page 4, Mr. Tootoo commented on it earlier, in regards to the nursing program, can the minister just clarify this because Nunavut Arctic College will be funding or there will be courses on social work at the college.
So in your plans for 2002-2003, will there be an improvement in the programs at the Arctic College?
Mr. Chairman, I am still waiting for your earlier response Mr. Chairman, on the review of the opening comments.
But I will answer Mr. Arvaluk’s specific question on the Nursing Program.
First of all Mr. Chairman, as we said earlier we had come up with a bursary to support financially and monetarily, the nursing students just this past year so that they wouldn’t have the financial difficulty that they had been continuously telling us that they were experiencing.
We believe the commitment made by the government through the department demonstrated our support for that nursing program.
At the same time Mr. Chairman on the other two programs we continue to review with the Arctic College, the Nunavut Arctic College the administration as well as the delivery of the social worker program and that’s joint consultation between Arctic College as well as the Department of Health and Social Services and Mr. Chairman, for the first time in at least three years we delivered the first CHR program also at the Nunavut Arctic College.
Specifically in the opening comments of Mr. Arvaluk he made a good point on traditional foods being supplied to the students at the college and this has been an ongoing concern of the students for quite a while.
I would be open to suggestions from the member on how we could co-operatively try to address that concern also.
You asked me earlier if you could respond to the comments made, but the members made a lot comments, suggestions and recommendations during their opening comments.
There were many comments and suggestions made and they’re being transcribed for your information.
If you try to respond to all of the issues raised in the members’ comments, it would take a while, perhaps too long, so we’ll move onto the questions section.
What I am trying to say is, perhaps if I ask this question.
These courses that are related to health, we really want these programs to be successful, are they on par with other programs such as the Akitsiraq Law program?
By that I mean their financial assistance and housing.
Is the nursing program on par with these other programs?
I appreciate your ruling on my earlier question.
I had hoped to respond to member’s comments specifically but I will not challenge the Chair in this case.
Mr. Chairman, specifically on the Nursing Program, as I have said in this House in the past, we began by putting this year a bursary in place of 10 thousand dollars for nursing students in the first, second and third year of the program.
At the same time in the access year, we made a bursary available of 15 hundred dollars.
That was unconditional funding Mr. Chairman, so that when they received that money they were able to use it to help them with rent payments, tickets home, clothing and so on and so forth.
We believe that bursary program, and the feedback that we’ve gotten from the nursing students, was that it was well welcomed, well received and has been an incentive to keep the nurses in the program.
Again I think it’s important to point out, Mr. Chairman, that a lot of our students are unlike students in the south who go to college or university at 16, 17 and 18 years of age when they finish school.
A lot of our students are adults and especially in the nursing program they are young mothers who have children, common-law spouses, husbands, families to support and there needs to be a different way of supporting those students from previously what was done in there, for example in the south, taking into account the financial hardships that the member talked about.
We believe the bursary program has done that.
At the same time, in other programs that we have run under Health, the member maybe recalls, that just recently we finished the Medical Terminology Interpreter/Translator Program course.
It is the first time that has been delivered in a couple of years, helping with the interpretation as well as the translation of medical terminology at Health Centres and including the hospital.
We also ran the first CHR Program in some time.
And we are in the process of doing the review, again on the Social Work Program.
So those are the types of academic programs that we put in place for the students through the Department of Health and Social Services.
Right here, on the same page, on page 4, in your opening comments in the first paragraph, on the same line.
Could you tell us I believe that we raised this question last year, how many Nursing Program students have left since its inception?
We know that the remaining students were quite low, those who remained in the program when most of the other students had already dropped out.
Can he elaborate as to how many students started the Program since its first year, and how many students that have continued in the Program.
And secondly, could you give us details as to how many have started the second year and how many continued and perhaps we can move to the third year now.
So, could he inform the committee as to what is happening with the success of these students and the program?
Mr. Chairman, as the member may recall when we reinstituted this Program, this Program, the Nunavut Nursing Program, had been under the NUHRDS Program which is the Nunavut Human Resources Development Strategy, before the creation of Nunavut, put in place by the Federal Government and the Government of the Northwest Territories.
On the eve of the beginning of Nunavut, the money or the funding for this Program was cancelled.
Indeed the students that were in the Program were left without a Program.
Quickly after April 1st, 1999, Mr. Chairman, the minister at that time, Minister Arvaluk and myself had reviewed different programs and decided that this was one of the priorities with the support of our Cabinet colleagues to bring forward.
At that time we put 600 thousand dollars into Program itself through the College as well as I believe about 150 thousand in Student Financial Assistance.
In 1999-2000 there were seven students in the NUHRDS Program.
The following year, Mr. Chairman there were only three students in the Program.
That was an attrition rate of about four students.
We estimate right now that the attrition rate is about twenty to thirty percent.
In the year 2001-2002, that was last year and this year, we have seven students, three in the first year and four in the second year.
And we anticipate in 2002-2003 there will be eight students in the first year, which is the access year, two in the second year, and four in year three, for a total of fourteen.
In the following year which we would be looking at Mr. Chairman, we would be looking at a total of twelve, six and two.
We expect Mr. Chairman, that the first graduates would occur with a diploma in 2003-2004, and with a degree in the same year.
We expect that starting by 2007-2008 we would have graduated at least eleven or twelve students with a degree or diploma in Nursing.
So that will be over the next three to five years continuing with the Program.
We think that is a very aggressive number to meet, but we believe that it is possible.
I will have Mr. Nutarak talk next.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): You just want me to just talk?
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for giving me the opportunity.
In regards to the nursing program, how is it set up?
Does it go through the Department of Education; do they give you a pot of money that will be used for the nursing program?
No, we would wish that would happen but unfortunately that is not the case.
As is the case with most programs through the college, this is a purchased program, we purchase this program.
We contribute 600 thousand dollars directly to the college in our base budget towards the Nunavut Nursing program as well as the Department of Education also includes in their budget the amount for the student financial assistance.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): In regards to the living allowance, food allowance, clothing allowances, is it possible to give them more benefits so that there would be an increase in the retention?
Mr. Chairman, this is one of the most important programs I believe that we are currently running in Nunavut.
At the present time and looking at their continued rate, we will need at least 200 to 280 nurses over the next five years.
That includes the nurses that are currently employed as well as homecare.
There’s a huge opportunity for nurses.
One of the concerns has been the financial incentives that are available, not just for this program but for other programs offered at the college and that’s why the Department of Education has looked at a review of student financial assistance, as well as trying to look at increases in their budget that was recently passed in this House.
We have put in place, as I’ve said before, a bursary of 10 thousand dollars for the nursing students, as well as a bursary of 15 hundred dollars for the students in the access year of the program.
That money is unconditional Mr. Chairman, which means when the nursing students receive the 10 thousand dollars, they can use if for a trip home, they can buy furniture with it, it’s their discretionary funding to them.
The feedback that we have received from the nurses Mr. Chairman has been very positive.
That indeed, they believe it has been an extra incentive and we believe that it has helped not only to retain, but to recruit new nursing students into the program.
On the nursing program again, it’s obvious that there’s less than 10 students going through this program and of course I’m all for increasing their numbers.
There’s a large amount of money that has been set aside for the law school and they’ve also got 350 thousand dollars from Human Resources.
Why is it that the Nursing Program is not given anything from Human Resources?
I believe the Nunavut law program as has been explained in the past in this House, is a different program than the nursing program.
The nursing program is a standard program that is delivered within the college system.
The law program includes work tenure, where students that complete the program and indeed are enrolled in the program have to work in tenure to the Government of Nunavut or other sponsors of the program.
That’s quite different, and there’s a guaranteed wage in there.
We have tried to compensate within the nursing program itself by the introduction of the bursary.
I don’t think those programs can be compared because of the differences as earlier explained.
I also suggest that in the member’s opening comments on the programs and some of the other comments, they were well received by my staff and me.
The attrition rate during the first year of this program was almost 50%.
And right now I think we’re down to about 20 to 30% and I have to apologize to the member because in one question she had asked me before I had used the figure of eight and it was quite embarrassing when the member came to me in the office one day and said I can’t find these students and she of course was correct because in one of the numbers I gave which was eight in the first year, 2003-2004 was the anticipated enrolment and not the actual enrolment and that’s why I restated the numbers again today just to clarify that point Mr. Chairman.
So we did have a fall off from 7 to 3 in one year.
That’s when the GNWT dropped the program in 1998-1999 and when the program began again by this government of the seven that were in the program only three returned.
But we have continued to increase the numbers since that time.
I just want to ask you in the area of home foster care.
It’d be interesting to know across Nunavut I guess, to see if we’re in a shortage of foster homes.