EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Motion 020 – 2(4): Extension of Review Period for Bills 6 and 7 – Notice (Mapsalak)
I give notice that on Thursday, November 1, I will move the following motion:  I MOVE, seconded by the Honourable Member for Hudson Bay, that the period of time for the standing committee to report Bills 6 and 7 back to the House be extended by a further 120 calendar days.
Mr. Speaker, at the appropriate time, I will seek unanimous consent to deal with my motion today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
For the record, I think you said Tuesday. Did you mean Thursday, Mr. Mapsalak?
Mr. Mapsalak: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Speaker: Let the record show that he said Thursday.
There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Mapsalak.
Motion 020 – 2(4): Extension of Review Period for Bills 6 and 7 (Mapsalak)
Mr. Mapsalak: Thank you, Mr. Speaker and colleagues.
WHEREAS Bill 6, the proposed Official Languages Act and Bill 7, the proposed Inuit Language Protection Act, received second reading on June 6, 2007;
AND WHEREAS Bills 6 and 7 have been referred to the Standing Committee Ajauqtiit for scrutiny;
AND WHEREAS Rule 68(1) provides that bills referred to a standing committee shall not be proceeded with until the Assembly receives the report of the committee or 120 calendar days pass from the day the bill was given second reading;
AND WHEREAS the standing committee recently held well-attended public hearings on these important pieces of proposed legislation;
AND WHEREAS the standing committee is committed to fulfilling its responsibility to review these bills with care;
NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the Honourable Member for Hudson Bay, that the period of time for the standing committee to report Bills 6 and 7 back to the House be extended by a further 120 calendar days.
Bill 18 – An Act to Amend the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act and Related Statutes – Second Reading
I move, seconded Honourable Member for Nanulik, that Bill 18, An Act to Amend the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act and Related Statutes, be read for the second time.
Mr. Speaker, this bill amends the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act, and the following other Acts, as a result of coming into force of subsection 4(2) of the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act:
the Archives Act; the Medical Care Act;
the Disease Registries Act; the Payroll Tax Act, 1993;  the Education Act; the Qulliq Energy Corporation Act;
the Evidence Act; the Vital Statistics Act;
the Financial Administration Act; the Wildlife Act;
the Human Rights Act; the Young Offenders Act.
the Insurance Act;  the Labour Standards Act;
(interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker.  Speaker: Thank you, Mr. Premier.
The motion is carried, Mr. Premier.
Before I go on, Bill 18 is ready to be referred to the appropriate standing committee.
Bill 19 – An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act, No. 2 – Second Reading
I move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Iqaluit East, that Bill 19, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act, No. 2, be read for the second time.
Mr. Speaker, this bill amends the Income Tax Act to reflect changes in the federal Income Tax Act relating to tax brackets, tax credits for medical expenses and deductions for taxable dividends. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
To the principle of the bill. Question has been called. All those in favour of the motion, raise your hand, please.
Bill 19 is referred to the appropriate standing committee.
Bill 16 with Mr. Evyagotailak in the Chair.  Before we proceed into Committee of the Whole, we will take a 20-minute break.
>>House recessed at 15:03 and Committee resumed at 15:32
Mr. Kattuk: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We wish to continue with Bill 16 and the review of the Capital Estimates for the Nunavut Housing Corporation, followed by the Departments of Justice and Health and Social Services.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Kattuk. Are we in agreement we continue with the Capital Estimates for Nunavut Housing Corporation?
Mr. Akesuk, do you have witnesses you would like to bring to the table?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
To my immediate right is the President of the Nunavut Housing Corporation, Peter Scott, and to my left is the Chief Financial Officer, Eric Whitworth. (interpretation) Thank you.
Welcome to the Committee of the Whole. We were on page L-6.
Grants and Contributions. Headquarters.
Mr. Curley: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation) Minister and officials of the Housing Corporation, please feel welcome.
I do have a few more questions. We have all heard that the materials failed to make it to the barge in the port.
Can you explain to the committee as to how you are investigating this incident?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): Some of the material that came in by the barge was not all brought in and some were delivered to the wrong communities.
We are still investigating the situation. We opened all of the boxes which were going to be sent to the communities that came in by barge and sent them to the communities.
Your response didn’t really answer my question. I will rephrase my question.
I heard that in Pond Inlet, when they were opening the containers, some of the materials were supposed to go to the Kivalliq region.
Are you going to be looking after this properly so that it doesn’t get way too expensive? Some of the material weren’t supposed to go to Baffin Island.
Can the minister tell us as to why that happened? Pond Inlet is far from that shipment’s destination. The boxes that were opened contained materials that were supposed to go to the Kivalliq region.
I was informed of this earlier.
We are investigating how they were packaged and why the material that wasn’t supposed to go to Pond Inlet got there.
We are investigating this as much as we can so that we can give a full explanation to my colleagues. We want to find out why the shipments ended up in the wrong destination and what we can do to correct the situation. We also want to determine the most cost effective way to resolve the mix up.
If Mr. Scott wants to add more details to my comments, he can do so.
In response to the member’s question, we are still compiling our overshoot and damage reports from each of the communities.
That involves opening up all the containers and crates to verify what was shipped by the marshallers.
As far as the materials that were not sent out or put on the ships, we have finished re-packaging all of those materials to prepare them for airlift. We can’t take sealift materials and try to fly them in. So they have to be re-packaged into packages that can go on the aircraft.
That has been completed and a complete inventory of what is left behind.
We just now have to match that up with what’s missing in a variety of communities, and determining if there was misshipment of goods and determining the most economic way of getting materials moved between communities.
Mr. Curley: Thank you. (interpretation) I have another question to the minister. The project managers from the Housing Corporation in each region, in the Kitikmeot and in the Kivalliq, are doing an investigation of the change in procurement practices with regards to the materials being bought in Montreal or down south.
You had separated the packaging, distribution, and marshalling, so now, they’re just dealing with one of them.
The store is not responsible for packaging anymore. Once you get them on the truck, you don’t need to re-pack them from Montreal or from Churchill. It seems like you’re just saying that in other places, like Churchill, they will just re-pack them and send them to the communities.
I’m in a hurry to get an answer because the work is increasing and there’s more than one supplier now involved in shipping these materials.
When this is the case, are you going to be able to keep up with the materials being delayed?
If it’s not corrected, then please correct it and know exactly where you’re shipping the materials and when and where they are going to be shipped.
Are you going to investigate your employees if they’re doing a good job at re-packaging the materials and sending them to the appropriate communities?
(interpreation ends) Thank you.
Yes, we will be monitoring our staff so that this doesn’t happen again in the future. We will see how we can improve the process so that this doesn’t happen again when they’re shipping the materials to Nunavut.
Next year we’re going to do a better job in shipping the materials so that they’re able to go to the appropriate communities.
Mr. Curley: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the minister; I think it’s very important that we look at whether or not the project managers, the people who oversee all of the procurement, as well as the packaging distribution responsibilities, are really adequate or not with the Housing Corporation.
I don’t want to underestimate the importance of procurement.
These are very complex responsibilities for purchasing because there are huge financial commitments that are normally made by the supplier. And, often they are not paid in their line of credit, as well as the huge financings that have to be arranged in order to procure certain things and deliver, so huge, complex purchasing requirements.
I want to ask the minister: will you ensure that the risks that Nunavut Housing Corporation put into by choosing a particular contract arrangement is fully assessed and evaluated before it left?
Could the minister ensure that he will undertake to protect the public in this area and ensure that the Housing Corporation will have a hands-on approach for these kinds of services that they provide?
Yes, we will do that and investigate the issues with materials for housing in the communities. What you’re saying is very clear.
We would like to utilize the funding that we received from the federal government properly and accordingly.
Mr. Curley: Thank you. I thank the minister for that commitment.
I think it’s really quite important that the minister justify the reason for changes, or clearly explain somehow, from regional distribution, as well as procurement and packaging services, that was working.
It may have cost a little bit more than what they’re facing right now, which we don’t know whether or not there will be any savings.
My question to the minister is, in order to ensure that the public, not only the sealift arrangements, distribution, and packaging are fully working, but that you actually get to build the facilities and provide Inuit with housing should be the most important objective in the whole thing.
I don’t believe that you are meeting the targets now for building units as a result of the chaos. Will that somehow, the report, if any, that is being done, be presented to the House?
Once the investigation is completed, we’ll give you a written report as to what has been happening and we will send a letter to those communities affected by this delay, including the hamlets in the communities identified.
We will be bringing forth a letter as to how it has affected the communities and our progress in the building of houses. Right now, the 725 units are progressing on time despite these setbacks.
I share the minister’s hope that we will complete these units and so on. I believe there will be a lot of damages and whatever else with the supplies. I’m not as optimistic as he is that these units will be built on time.
They will not be built on time, that’s for sure.
The thing that I want to ask the minister: in order to find out exactly what’s happening with all of the logistical problems and why the terms of the contacts were not met, is that going to be done by consultants, or is it going to be done internally?
Our staff will be looking into this. We have already begun with the process and the investigation. Mr. Scott is working on this update right now.
Mr. Curley: Thank you. I want to ask the minister or his officials, have you hired a consultant to look into all of this mess?
I don’t want to term it mess, but the contracts that are not being met, have you actually hired a consultant to date?
We have not spoken with any consultants because our staff is working on this issue at this time.
The minister says they have not hired a consultant.
I want to ask the minister: are you engaging in any services from the private sector to find out exactly what’s going on with the logistical problems?
Mr. Scott: The only outside help that we have engaged is that we have extended the services of a company called Sealift Info that assisted with monitoring the materials as they were arriving and leaving the marshalling yard.
They will be continuing to assist us, under contract, to sort out some of the remaining logistical challenges that we have.
To date, we have not engaged anybody to look into the reasons for this issue that’s come up.
It appears, in my interpretation, that the private sector consultant has been engaged to look into the current problem.
Will that report, at least that comment with the current sealift period, be presented to the Assembly once it’s completed?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): Yes, we will try and table it right away because we want all information to be clear to the members and also to the impacted communities in regard to the construction of the units along with this problem.
Mr. Curley: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Housing Corporation issued Requests for Proposals last year in January for the following services required: for packaging and so on, like distribution and logistical services for a number of locations, including Montreal, Kivalliq, and Hay River.
Can the minister tell this House exactly how long the contracts were arranged with the successful proponents?
It’s for one year, and once that year is up, we will review the work that they’ve done.
They were contracted out for one year.
Mr. Curley: Thank you. So the contracts that were entered into are for one-year contracts for three locations. Could the minister or his officials indicate to this House whether or not the contractors that were hired will remain doing the work for this coming fiscal year?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): Thank you. They were awarded the contract last year to work on this but we have suspended it for now. I don’t think there was any new opening for that.
Mr. Curley: Thank you. The Minister of the Housing Corporation: can you explain to the House, as you have said to us that with the changing policies, there were considerable savings to be made in this new arrangement, if that is the case, why aren’t you extending the contract to those contractors that you hired?
And, if you’re not satisfied with them, please explain to the committee why you are not satisfied.
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): Thank you. Yes, we want the construction of units to go ahead. It would have gone ahead properly if they had addressed the materials to the appropriate communities.
In their contract, it stipulated that the contract would have a one-year term, and if they did their job properly, then we would consider re-contracting them.
That’s what we had used in dealing with this.
I appreciate the minister. I think you need help from your officials on that because it’s not even one year.
Why would you want to cancel the contract when they have not even had a chance to fully account for their responsibilities that were clearly, I’m sure, agreed to in the contractual arrangement?
Can the minister explain in detail why he’s not satisfied, if any, with any of the contractors that they hired for the three regions, and specifically, which contractors is he not satisfied with?
The President of the Nunavut Housing Corporation will respond to that.
Last year, when the RFP was issued, there were no responses to our marshalling requests for Hay River and for Winnipeg.
The Winnipeg or Kivalliq marshalling was all done through Montreal.  Once the last ship had left the dock in Montreal, leaving behind quite a bit of the material, as we discussed yesterday, we cancelled the contract because they did not comply with the terms and conditions that they were engaged to do.
That’s largely why we were dissatisfied with that particular contract.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Scott. I would like to thank Mr. Curley for asking questions.
Do you have additional questions?
Mr. Curley: Yes, thank you. Yes, I do.
Mr. Chairman, I thank the President of the Housing Corporation.
I looked at the Request for Proposals from last year but it did not specify that Winnipeg was the receiving point, nor mentioned at all in the RFP.
It did explain Churchill was one of the location points.
So can the minister clarify for us whether or not Winnipeg is one of the receiving points for all of the supplies that the Housing Corporation requires?
The minister did not explain that there were problems in Manitoba or Hay River. It appears to be one region mainly.
Yes, Churchill, I’m not too sure, it used to be Fort Churchill, but it’s the Manitoba one.
As the member said, the Kivalliq cargo came from Montreal. We had the same contract. Perhaps, there were 21 communities that received from the same point there.
Chairman: Thank you, Minister. I would like to thank Mr. Curley for asking questions here. Your time is up.
I’m kind of tired of reading, but my colleague is unable to ask questions so I have to ask questions on behalf of another member.
(interpretation ends) Since the quality of materials shipped was more than the description in the Request for Proposal, can you explain how the contractors will be indemnified?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation) There was 7,200 metric tonnes of material coming from down south that we know, and also in that same place, there are 125 tonnes still down south that have to be shipped up to Nunavut.
So if I understand your question correctly, that’s how it is.
Mr. Mapsalak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can you explain why the containers of 300 units finally exceeded 400 units, not including the materials that were not shipped?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk: Mr. Chairman, can I have a clarification on that question?
Mr. Mapsalak, can you clarify your question for the minister?
The question that I’m supposed to pose is written that way.
They were expecting 300-something containers.
Now, they’re way beyond 300 and they went up to 400 units.
If I understood the question in the way it is written, it’s talking about the material.
Did they arrive through the ship?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): Thank you. We did not do an inventory to see how many units there would be at the marshalling yard. We said that there was 7,250 tonnes.
We didn’t know how many marshalling yards there would be but we knew how much the materials weighed.
Mr. Mapsalak.  Mr. Mapsalak (interpretation): Thank you.
(interpretation ends) When the Nunavut Housing authorized the delivery of materials, was the contractor for marshalling and packing in processing of all final, precise, and pertinent documentation permitting them to perform the contract?
(interpretation) I hope that I’m clear.
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I understood you correctly, the contract usually stipulates what they have to follow.
The company that was awarded the contract should have known the contents of the contract. They said that they were capable of dealing with the contract.
Mr. Mapsalak: Thank you.
After it was obvious that all of the materials weren’t going to be shipped, the contract was full of solutions to diminish the costs of forwarding the materials to the communities.
Please explain why these solutions were not considered by the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
To the best of my knowledge, the marshalling contractor did not put forth any alternate suggestion about how to get the material to the missing communities. So I’m not aware of any discussions of that nature.
Is it a general practice for the Nunavut Housing Corporation to blame the contractors for the Housing Corporation’s lack of planning and preparation of major contracts, like marshalling and packaging?
That’s not the usual practice but we try to make sure that we get the best contractors to do the necessary work as housing is very important. We try to get the best contracts.
The construction of houses has been very beneficial to the communities as we are training our staff. We want this to continue smoothly for Nunavut, so it’s not our usual practice to blame contractors.
We do want to see the Housing Corporation do the best that they can but we are having problems with the houses that were supposed to go up in the communities.
I think it would be better to work closely with the people that you have contracted to make sure that this problem is rectified at least in the upcoming year.
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): Thank you. Perhaps, when we provide the report to you, we will also indicate how much more money we had to spend after the contracts had been written.
After we have the report ready, we would be able to see what else we could do. I can’t say exactly who will be awarded the contract but we will have to do a thorough review of how much impact it has on Nunavut with respect to building housing units and how it will affect the individuals who we are training in the communities. We will also see where we can make improvements.
As this is providing communities with significant economic development, we will monitor this very closely.
I would like to thank Mr. Mapsalak for his questions.
I welcome the minister and his officials back to the Committee of the Whole.
A few questions, first on the list that we’ve talked about here since late yesterday and today, it just deals with this new concept or new way of approaching the purchase of supplies and materials for the housing units that are being built throughout the territory.
I believe yesterday the minister or Mr. Scott indicated that this is the first year that they’re looking at using this approach on that.
I’m just wondering if he could just give an indication or a rationale of where this new approach came from. I know that Mr. Scott indicated yesterday that they said they had to look for new ways to save money and deliver stuff. I’m just wondering: where did this concept come from?
First of all, I stated yesterday that we were asked by the standing committee to look at cost saving measures for the shipment of materials for the housing units. We took the advice of the standing committee and we had meetings with the various ship operators to look at how we could save money.
If Mr. Scott would like to make a supplementary, he may do so.
The idea or concept of using containers to containerize the material, as opposed to the traditional crating of everything, came from one of the shipping companies, NEAS, out of southern Montreal. That was their sales pitch that convinced us that substantial savings could be achieved if we used containers.
So we did do some consultation with some of the experts that are out there that are involved in shipping of materials and whatnot.
Is it the first year that this whole concept of bulk buying all of the separate material and then sorting it out once it’s received at the marshalling yards? Is it the first year that’s been tried and where did that concept come from?
This is the first year. If Mr. Scott would like to make a supplementary, he may do so.
This is the first year that we’ve tried this approach. Largely, the concepts were developed and fleshed out through our senior management in consultation with the regions and in open discussions of how we can get the same results at a cheaper cost to the corporation.
I just want to confirm the correctness because I think I heard the minister or his official indicate that by using that method of purchasing this year that they saved $6 million.
I know that it’s just the first year that this has been tried and it’s obvious that there were some things that didn’t go as planned.
I’m just wondering if the minister or his officials could give us an indication of what they’ve learned from this year and any changes that they’ve made to address those concerns for next year’s cycle.
We are looking at further cost saving measures. I’ll have Mr. Scott respond.