EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
I thought that document had already been tabled; I could be wrong.
It’s available on the website, so I don’t really know how to respond to that question.
I have heard about concerns in regard to contracts, such as in Rankin Inlet.
For example, for a construction contract, their labour content became too huge because of NNI, for the non-beneficiaries, perhaps because they didn’t want to hire Inuit, so they increased the amount.
A lot of Inuit don’t agree with that, because they don’t hire Inuit beneficiaries.
I think it’s value, experience, and Inuit content.
Inuit content includes labour.
I believe that this should be clarified in a document.
They have to have merit with their experience.
Are they competitive?
I don’t think anyone isn’t confused.
Perhaps the minister can explain their content and provide information.
Are you going to make changes or is that going to remain the same?
Yes, we are in the process of hiring individuals for this purpose.
The individual that we had hired to work there as the executive director had quit his job.
The staff are now taking training in NNI, and we’ve asked, once they understand the NNI policy, that they would start consulting with the community to inform the communities and to get input from the communities in regard to NNI, as to how the private businesses feel about that.
The officials will have a meeting with the staff and also consult with the communities.
That’s how the process is set up at this time.
The NNI is possibly a procurement policy.
That policy is for the whole of Nunavut.
If that NNI policy does not change now, the non-beneificiary contractors complain that it’s very expensive only for the labour rates.
I believe that this should be done urgently.
When are you going to start your consultation process?
Yes, we are expediting this within our department, to make sure that we consult with the communities and to make sure that we get input from the community about how they feel about the NNI policy.
Once our officials complete their training, then they will start touring the communities.
We’ve now done this on an urgent basis.
Speaker (interpretation): Your final and last supplementary, Mr. Curley.
Yes, we are concerned.
Not only by us, I believe that this NNI policy has to be improved.
Once the minister gets the information, perhaps he can make a report on the government response.
Yes, once we arrive at that point, we’ll be able to make a report on it.
Question 292 – 2(2): Government Leased Properties
It’s in relation to the leases that were tabled last Friday.
Mr. Speaker, I’m sure that before he approved the tabling, and not only himself but his cabinet colleagues, I’m certain they went through and reviewed it very carefully and noted, as I did, that the annual cost of all of the commercial leases is close to $10 million a year.
My question is: is he fully and completely satisfied that every single one of those leases, including the $22 million one that I mentioned earlier, is providing good value for the money: yes or no?
I don’t want to stickhandle my way around this question whether I am either fully satisfied or not, but, like I said in my earlier statement on the number of figures, contracts, and the list that we have here, because my colleague asked me if I am fully satisfied in each and every one of those: it will depend on the contract and the service provided and also the conditions that would call for a decision, to see if the contract or issue at hand is satisfactory or not.
So, Mr. Speaker, in responding to my colleague, it depends on the contract and what the service was in relation to the value of the contract.
I know there are three or four volumes of information that were tabled.
The information that I am zeroing in on today is just the commercial leases; like I said, there were $10 million.
He had indicated, if I can stickhandle his response, that there are some who do “give me concern”.
I am just wondering if you could identify any particular contract, under commercial leases that are in place, that were of concern to him and his department.
There are some issues and flags that do rise with different leases that we have out there, when you look at the renewal options and the time and duration of these contracts.
Again, depending on the issue and the lease in question, there have been some flags, inevitably. Like the other issues we deal with in our departments, there have been some.
Can the minister provide the members of this House with the listing of areas of concerns and the issues that they have with any of these commercial lease contracts and what they are doing about it?
For the benefit of my colleague and members, I also have to add on to my response by saying that on these leases, and I will just use an example… .
When leases are either expiring or expired, the department responsible, along with Community and Government Services and the lessor, will try and iron these issues out, and it’s usually at that level that these things are in doubt, in recommending an extension to the lease or the course of action they may want to take.
But also, Mr. Speaker, there have been some issues, especially from leases dating back to the government of the Northwest Territories days, realizing that the documents are provided for a certain year and the information prior to those years was not included as part of the documents.
What I am worried about, and I know Ms. Fraser talked about, in her report, value for money, is that we are not getting taken to the cleaners on some of these leases.
I look forward to the information that the minister committed to providing to us.
Hopefully, it is before the end of this sitting.
If not, it will be very soon after.
I look forward to following up on that.
My question is, what, specifically, is the department doing to ensure that some of these leases where we are getting taken to the cleaners, that we are not going to get taken to the cleaners?
In some of these cases would it be cheaper for us to just cancel the contract if we find that we are not getting value for money?
Of course, like every other arrangement and the dealings that this government has, those leases do get their review.
There is, also, always that option of reviewing something if there are problems with the leases causing too much hardship or conditions are not being met.
So, there is that option which the departments and also Community and Government Services always considers in reviewing specifics of the leases or the contracts.
Also, I just realized that I am going to have to do a lot more homework because these are contracts, leases, procurements that I plan to table, starting from now, on an annual basis.
Question period is now over. Going back to the orders of the day. Item 7.
Item 9. Item 10. Item 11.
Item 12. Item 13. Tabling of documents.
Tabled Document 103 – 2(2): Exploration and Mining on Crown Lands in Nunavut Guidebook
I would like to table a Guidebook from Indian and Northern Affairs Canada.
It is entitled, “Exploration and Mining on Crown Lands in Nunavut Guidebook.”
Speaker (interpretation): Please pass the tabled document to our Clerk’s table.
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): Mr. Speaker, I didn’t raise my hand.
Speaker (interpretation): I forgot to delete this.
Tabled Document 52-2(20), Bill 8, Bill 9, Bill 10, Bill 11, Bill 12, Bill 13 and Bill 14.
In accordance with the authority vested in me by motion 3-2(2), the Committee of the Whole will stay in session until it reports itself out.
We’ll take a 20 minute break.
>>House recessed at 15:17 and resumed at 15:47
Chairman (Mr. Netser): Thank you for coming back.
We wish to continue with Bill 8 and continue with the main estimates for the Department of Health and Social Services.
After completing this department, we will proceed with the review of the Department of Economic Development and Transportation.
Minister Brown, could you please go to the witness table with your officials.
(interpretation) We’re on page H-12.
On my right is my Deputy Minister, Bernie Blais and on my left is Mr. Eric Whitworth, the Executive Director of Corporate Services.
Chairman: Welcome, Mr. Blais and Mr. Whitworth.
We’re on page H-12.
I have Mr. Barnabas on my list of names, but he is not present at the moment.
Total operations and maintenance, $4.574 million.
Chairman: Go to page H-13.
Total operations and maintenance. Mr. Mapsalak.
I have talked about this before and I have asked questions in this house in regards to medical client travel.
The clients that go down to the hospitals to the southern institutions, especially the elders that can’t speak in English and they don’t usually go out of their community quite often, sometimes they don’t have an escort.
For that reason, the airlines usually have a stop-over in other communities, I know that there’s going to be an interpreter when they reach their destinations or sometimes the airlines, if something goes wrong with the airline and they can’t proceed to their destination where that elder is going to.
Sometimes the elders get totally confused and they are having a hard time because they have no place to go, and they don’t know how to, even if they are in place where there’s a telephone, they don’t know how to use the telephone.
They don’t know how to use those calling cards or they don’t have any idea of how to use the long-distance operating system and they don’t want to ask for help.
This has been ongoing and I am sure there have been a lot of people in that situation.
We hear different stories about people in that situation.
Sometimes the nurse is the one that’s supposed to be directing things and sometimes it’s your department is supposed to approve everything.
In the smaller communities especially, like sometimes the nurses feel that the clients don’t need escorts because of the condition they are in and they have to be confidential in their kind of sickness that they have, but if you are in the smaller communities, that’s the way it is for most of the people in Nunavut.
My question is about the guidelines that the department has.
A lot of people don’t know how to read; even if they know how to read, they don’t really understand what the guidelines or the policies are of the department.
Perhaps this could be looked into by the Department of Health because I have not heard of anyone or an incident of this.
Is there any way that one of the officials of the Department of Health can go the communities and give those verbal instructions or verbal guidelines so that they can understand if I am understood?
This has been brought up many, many times and I would like to thank the member for bringing it up again.
I know it’s very, very hard for people that go out to a medical centre, and I have been told that there’s one person that’s escorting them with so many of them, and we can’t just guess what kind of sickness that they have.
The people that have to have an escort are the ones that are unilingual, but sometimes we have a hard time with the guidelines, and sometimes the people think that the nurses are the ones that tell you the policy and they see the individual that’s going down south as knowing what is expected of them.
Sometimes it’s very hard to know which person needs an escort or not.
Like I’ve said in this House, the member wanted someone to come to Kugaaruk and Repulse Bay to give the people information about the policies.
And I will do that.
I am happy to hear the response of the Minister.
I’m sure every one of us knows that there have been a lot of people that have gone south for medical treatment.
Sometimes they don’t reach their destination because they don’t know how to speak English and they don’t know how to ask questions and they don’t have any assistance.
We have heard about those people many times.
I said at one time in this house that when I was talking about this, I wasn’t just talking about my community, but I was talking about my constituents want to see somebody go to the communities to give verbal information to the nurses or the whole community.
Would it be possible for every community to be visited.
We have to make sure that everybody is equal in all of the communities even though there are quite a few communities in Nunavut.
I think this information should be give to the public.
A lot of people have been requesting information on that.
So, we will treat them equally and make sure that they are all visited.
Have you studied or looked into how many people have had that problem when they’re going down south and not knowing what to do or are lost when they’re supposed to be going down south for medical treatment.
Once you hear about that, do you keep a record of it.
How many people have had those types of problems because they didn’t have an escort.
I think it’s been one year since I’ve been Minister of Health and Social Services.
There have been approximately four individuals.
They didn’t know who to call or what kind of help they could get from other people.
At least even if we speak English, we get stuck and we don’t know what to do.
I can understand how the unilinguals can get lost and not know what to do so for that reason, I will do my best to help those individuals.
Sometimes we hear about people going south for medical treatment that stay waiting for a long time.
Perhaps there is not very good communication between the boarding home and the hospital or the nurses.
This has been an ongoing problem.
They have requested many times to make sure that the information is given out so the medical services centres are putting out some information.
Once that information is put together, then we will meet with the cabinet so that all the people from the communities that go for treatment in the south can know what is expected of them.
A short one, Mr. Chairman,
when do we expect this visitation to the communities to inform the public about medical travel?
What we are doing now is that we are drafting it in paper right now, and then after, they go the Cabinet, then we will provide it to the members.
I have a question on the Request for Proposal for the single-engine that travels between Rankin Inlet, Chesterfield Inlet, and Coral Harbour.
One of the ongoing problems we have is that this single-engine doesn’t have washroom facilities.
This Request For Proposal was put out in 2002 and it states, and I quote: “All aircraft proposed must be easy for people with disabilities who may require assistance due to immobility to board and unboard.
Furthermore, for flights over one hour in duration, the contractor shall provide washroom facilities on all aircraft on which patients will be flying.
(interpretation) When somebody breaches a contract, usually happens is that the contract is terminated, and with those single-engine aircrafts, what happens because they have breached their contract?
It also states here (interpretation ends) “The Nunavut Government will be responsible for all safety and transportation for Nunavut residents.”
(interpretation) What I hear that there are individuals who are utilizing these flights and they can’t either board or discharge from the aircraft?
Why is it that there was nothing done when they breached the contract?
Hon. Levinia Brown (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman and I would also like to thank Mr. Netser for bringing this issue up.
I believe that all members are properly representing their ridings.
I will ask Mr. Whitworth to respond to the question.
To address the member’s concern, in the Kivalliq Region there is presently no contracts in place for scheduled medical travel.
This Request For Proposal that did go out back in 2002 this fall with Nunavut; out of this Request For Proposal there were contracts for schedule in the Kitikmeot and the Baffin Regions.
There was a decision made by Cabinet that the department renegotiate with the current providers in the Kivalliq Region and that’s currently is taking place now.
So there are currently no contracts in place with those providers.
So I finally find that that’s the case.
In the business plans, it states that (interpretation ends) implement recommendation resulting for medical travel review and establish medical travel coordination centre for all of Nunavut.
The status is the client travel policy review is in the final stages, they did a development to put out a Request For Proposal is complete, and a Request For Proposal will be issued early in 2005.
(interpretation) If that’s going to be the case, what’s going to happen with the scheduled aircrafts that go to our communities?
Are they just going to be flying around, moving medical patients from point A to point B, with none of these facilities available? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I would like Mr. Whitworth to answer the question.
Chairman: Thank you. Mr. Whitworth.
If I understand the member’s question, it’s regarding the coordination of the medical travel with the new proposed medical travel coordination centre.
They will be, once the contracts are in place, there will be specifics as to what contractor to use on specific routes at specific times.
So, even the coordination centre will have direction from the department as to what airline to use at any specific time.
With the patients that go down to Winnipeg and Churchill, there are quite a few that go from my communities.
Their tickets are handled in Rankin Inlet and I was told by the previous Minister that these patients have the option of using Kivalliq Air or Calm Air.
It is up to the discretion of the patient who is traveling.
But, in Rankin Inlet, when their tickets are fixed, they are usually given to one particular airline.
You get the feeling that the coordinator of these tickets is a relative or in partnership with the airline that is usually used.
Even when they say that would prefer to go by another aircraft, they are just given room in those single aircrafts. Is that government employee in partnership with that particular airline?
It’s very inconvenient for the people of Kivalliq Region.
We have to be open and accountable.
We want to make sure that services are provided properly.
I will ask Mr. Whitworth to respond to your question.
Again, once the contract negotiations have been completed with the airline in the Kivalliq Region, there will be specific flights on specific days for specific airlines based on routes they cover, based on flight schedules, based on number criteria.
Today, it would be premature to say how it will roll out.
But it looks like, based on what we’re currently working on, that it will be equitable for the airline and it should be beneficial to all the residents in the Kivalliq Region.
Chairman: Thank you. Mr. Netser.
I think you misunderstood my question.
Maybe you’ll understand if I say it in English.
What we experience in Coral Harbour, especially is when we have medical patients that travel to Winnipeg or Churchill, the warrant is issued out of Rankin Inlet.
The majority of the patients traveling are forced to go on that little airline.
We were told that they were supposed to have a choice which airline they wanted to travel with.
Most of the warrants are issued to go on Kivalliq Air.
We often think over in our community that maybe that person that issues these travel warrants, maybe he or she has an interest in this particular airline because they’re not given a choice.
I just want to bring that up to the House and I want to know if it’s true or not.
I am not personally aware of that taking place.
In the past things like that could have happened, but I know in the future, with the current contracts that are being worked on, it is going to be a little more difficult for that to happen because it’s based on specific routes, specific times, specific dates or days of the week that they fly, is who will get the medical patient travel.
So it will be a little bit more objective from an employee whose is issuing the medical warrants point of view.
The RFP that you will be issuing out shortly to these airlines, will you put in the RFP specifications on having to need a washroom on all the airlines because it gets very uncomfortable for senior citizens to travel on an airline which has nothing in the way of washroom or snacks on their routes to these southern medical centres.
Those are very important issues that the member is bringing up and we have been hearing them for quite a while now.
When I was a member of the Health Board this was one of the major concerns that we had and apparently there has been no corrective action that has taken place.
I will ask Mr. Whitworth to respond.
We have certain standards now based on the RFP that the member is referring to, which we had helped to develop.
The department had help from KPMG in developing those RFP’s back in 2002.
Clearly it articulates what the requirements for flights over an hour, under an hour, for such things as washrooms, hot and cold meals, and things like that.
It’s right out in the RFP.
That is what we will follow.
I am very pleased to hear that response.
I just want to remind the minister that we are going to go through the same thing next year.
We are ever watchful on what is happening in our communities.
So I just wanted to thank the Department of Health for promising to make changes on how the medical patients are going to be traveling within the next fiscal year.
(Interpretation) I would just like to say thank you and moving onto another subject.
The Pimmarsvik in Chesterfield Inlet, they employ a lot of people in the community, but for the last two years it has been providing services without a contract.
They have never been able to get a response from your department.
Could the minister give us an update on what is happening with the negotiations?
That is the case with the Chesterfield Inlet facility.
Just recently and in the upcoming months, and as April 1 is going to kick in, and even prior to that, we will be given an update on what is happening with the negotiations.
My staff has been working on it diligently and I am sure that there are people out there who are waiting.
I think we will be hearing very shortly on what’s happening with the negotiations.
Will the minister commit to having a contract settled before this fiscal year has ended?
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you. Madame Minister.
We are currently working on it and reviewing all the pieces of legislation and laws.
I would want to say yes, but I might be premature. I will ask my staff to work on it and try to have it completed prior to the new fiscal year.
Mr. Netser: Thank you. This is my last question.
Why did it take two years for this contract to be settled?
Why are we playing games with these people who provide jobs in our communities?
I’m glad that my colleague is asking good questions.
Since we are seated at the witness stand, I will ask Mr. Whitworth to respond to that questions.
The contract is really two years in the making.
The contract that they did have expired on March 31, 2004.
We knew that there was going to be a change from one facility to the other facility.
Instead of entering into different contracts, what the plan was, is to wait until the move had taken place into the new facility, enter into a contract that would cover from April 1 up to the day of the move and then go forward.
That was the rationale behind it.
We have not delayed payment to the provider.
They still have received, have provided the services to the government and to the client and we have made payments.
We are working with them and I have spoken with them a recently as this morning as to the status of where we are with the contract.
Thank you, for the answer because there are other organizations that are interested in coming into our communities and taking over the job.
That’s what they were worried about.
I’m just making sure of that and I’m following up on that request.
That was just a comment, not a question.
I’m quite happy with what my colleagues have brought up also because it’s a concern to all Nunavutmiut.
This department is not a playground.
Let’s get serious and help the people out there who need help on travel, especially the ones that are going out for treatment, cancer treatment.
I know if I was receiving cancer treatment, if I was down in Edmonton alone, I would be very worried not knowing how my family is going to be.
You would feel the same way too.
Even for the elders, when they don’t have escorts, how do you think they’re thinking?