EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
The standing committee urges the minister to make public the results of the study and to report on actual initiatives that have reduced barriers to business in Nunavut.
Members note that the department expects to spend $2.5 million on the Small Communities Initiatives Fund in 2007-08.
The standing committee urges the Government of Nunavut to ensure that the fund is operated with the utmost transparency and accountability.
It is essential that Nunavummiut are able to track the benefits arising from spending through the fund.
Members noted that Bill C-45, a new federal Fisheries Act, has received first reading in the House of Commons.
Given the fact that approximately two-thirds of the Canada’s coast line lies in Nunavut, members believe that it is very important that Nunavut make a formal submission on Bill C-45.
The standing committee looks forward to reviewing any formal submissions that are made by the Government of Nunavut on this proposed federal legislation.
Mr. Chairman, that concludes my opening comments. Individual members may have their own concerns and comments as we proceed. I would like to thank, as the committee chair, our researchers.
Before we proceed I’d like to remind members of the following. According to Rule 77(1) you have ten minutes to speak, and according to Rule 77(2) subject to the discretion of the chair a member may speak more than once on a matter but not until every member wishing to speak has spoken.
I would like to remind the government that we negotiated the Land Claims Agreement, some of us for half of our lives, with our goal to self determination for all Nunavummiut, not just a few.
That is why, in the agreement there are carefully identified articles including Article 24 and the Inuit Impact Benefits Agreement and other provisions such as Nunavut Wildlife Boards and the Inuit Designated Organizations.
These articles are aimed to allow affected communities to benefit from future economic development such as mining in Mary River. When BaffinLand started test drilling several years ago, they spoke to affected communities like Pond Inlet, Igloolik, Clyde River, and Arctic Bay.
They contracted the Pond Inlet Cooperative to supply a work force, 40 plus workforce and supply food for that work force and also to rebuild the old road from Milne Inlet to Mary River.
Now, I am told that these contracts might not be renewed.
The mine is not in production yet and affected communities are already excluded from economic benefits.
The Government of Nunavut is a body to protect the concerns of Nunavummiut.
I would urge the government to intervene to ensure that Pond Inlet, Arctic Bay, Igloolik, and Clyde River directly benefit from the economic development there otherwise it will just be like Nanisivik that we know a few years ago.
(interpretation) Mr. Chairman, just to supplement further. The Inuit Impact Benefit Agreements need to be set properly and the government will have to be fully involved.
They say they are fully involved but if they are not involved the communities surrounding the mine will be left out.
As we are aware of all the mines there will have to be ships involved and there is not a big enough ship.
They believe that the ship that they will construct will be the size of three football fields.
So everything is going to be impacted there. Along with Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated, Qikiqtani Inuit Association and the Government of Nunavut and the community of Pond Inlet will all have to be involved.
The government should involve each and every one and this is the Government of Nunavut and it should govern and be careful with the ones that are going to be impacted especially the community of Pond Inlet.
BaffinLand goes through the community of Pond Inlet and I don’t know if they are involved with economic development plans I don’t know what is going to happen.
But I am going to be asking questions in regard to that later on.
I don’t have anybody else on my list. Mr. Tootoo.
I’d like to welcome the Minister and his officials to the Committee of the Whole.
Some of the things that I’d like to mention and I will be looking at questioning further on when we get to the appropriate sections within the budget, I guess kind of stems from the role I play as Chair of Government Operations and Accountability and just dealing with accountability and transparency of some of the programs that are run through the department, especially dealing with Business Development Credit Corporation and some of the other partnership agreements that are in place with the department as far as grants and contribution go.
Another area, I know that I will be looking to ask the minister some questions on is dealing with audit that took place with the Department of Transportation, the Motor Vehicles division here and finding out what types of steps have been, measures the department has taken to address some of the concerns that were highlighted there.
Generally speaking, I had, you know for the last year, had some concerns with the processes, and like, more of the accountability process for grants and contributions and I’ll be looking at some point to get some clarification on exactly how the department follows up on that.
I think another important issue, as the Chairman has indicated, is dealing with the small craft harbours.
I know a port here is something that’s been in the works for some time, and I be asking at the appropriate time for an update on where things are going with that, or with any of the small craft harbour issues that have been raised throughout the territory.
I know that those types of things are in great need. You know we’ve had circumstance here in the past where emergency services personnel had to wade into the water, up to their waists or so to be able to help someone.
There has to be a safer way to be able to provide, if necessary, hopefully it’s not necessary but at some point, not only here, but in all our communities, whether we like it or not these types of things could happen to make sure we’re ready for them.
I guess that’s about it for my opening comments. It was short and sweet and I look forward to asking the minister some questions when we get to the appropriate budget sections.
Mr. Peterson: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I welcome the Minister and his officials to the Committee of the Whole today.
I’ll try to keep my comments short and sweet as well. I would say that the Department of Economic Development and Transportation is one of the most important departments in our government.
In his dual role as the Department of Finance, in the Minister’s Budget Speech he said that we have a promising future. In my mind a promising future depends on the development of our economy.
As we’ve mentioned before, the economy, I think is very, very dependant on the transfer payments from the federal government and all the communities are currently dependant on transfer payments from the Government of Nunavut.
When everyone is dependant on government transfer payments, it is more like an artificial economy. If you remove any of those transfer payments, our economy is going to suffer. Communities are going to suffer.
Businesses are going to suffer. I believe it’s very important for us as Members of the Legislative Assembly and the government to make every effort we can to facilitate the development of our economy.
I know there are a lot of people across Nunavut working on that: you have the Land Claims organizations, you have the Nunavut Economic Forum, and you have the federal government but it will take a concerted effort for all those people to make it easier for our business to operate in Nunavut and to develop the business opportunities out there.
What I see lacking in Nunavut is another area; I’ll use the Kitikmeot as an example, since I’m most familiar with it. We have considerable mining opportunities over there in the Slave Geologic Province, but we don’t have basic infrastructure to support the development of those mining opportunities.
One mine by itself can generate a lot of employment and training, contracting, subcontracting opportunities, significant economic wealth can be created in the communities.
When people have an additional source of funding they bring that wealth back to the communities. They will want to spend that money and that will very likely be spent in the communities, if there are entrepreneurs who spring up there to be able to develop businesses where people will be able to spend their money.
Right now, anyone that does have money they’re spending it in places like Yellowknife, or Edmonton, or Winnipeg, or Ottawa, and that’s not good.
We have try and keep that money in Nunavut.
One dollar generated in a community has a multiplier effect of two to three dollars, so that stimulates other opportunities for people.
We need to support the entrepreneurs; we have to have businesses infrastructure, what I mean by that is buildings where entrepreneurs can operate a little bit.
It probably costs a business person in Nunavut two to three times what it costs the business person in the south to construct a building.
If you go down south they don’t even have to invest in infrastructure, they can lease that space, whereas in Nunavut the business person has to build their own offices and garages, and so on and so forth.
That’s a serious investment in capital on the part of our entrepreneurs in the north. Many have to find the working capital to hire their employees and it is very difficult for them. We also need to find a way to provide bookkeepers and accountant services to our business community.
Everybody knows you have to have good solid financial information and reporting systems to succeed anywhere. I think it’s very critical in Nunavut, where it’s extremely difficult to operate at the best of times, if you don’t have accountants or bookkeepers. Many of our businesses are struggling in that regard, many have to deal with the regulatory regimes like Revenue Canada, Territorial/Federal Government reporting.
You have to report to the Territorial Government on loans and grants and contributions so that is a very complicated process.
There are all kinds of areas that we have to focus on and in the Kitikmeot we have many, many opportunities. After three years as an MLA, I am not seeing a lot of new businesses being developed over there.
I went through Kugluktuk about a month and a half ago and people came up to me in the airport and they were telling me that things have pretty much died in Kugluktuk, there’s absolutely nothing going on there, I am sure my colleague will attest to that; the same in some of the other communities.
Cambridge Bay is not too bad because we do have the government there, but as I said earlier we don’t want to become too dependant on the government, even government employees want to be able to take their paycheque and spend it somewhere in the community, but they are going to Yellowknife and Edmonton as I mentioned.
So we have to work very hard as a government, as a department and as MLAs to improve the economy or you are going to continue to stand up year after year in your other portfolio as the Minister of Finance and report that we have a bright future but where 80 to 90 percent of our funding comes from the federal government.
As I said, that’s just an artificial economy; when your economy is dependant on government funds to me that’s not healthy.
I’ll be asking questions about the Bathurst Inlet Port and Road. I would like an update on the Nunavut Economic Development strategy, there are a number of good recommendations made in there; the uses of the strategic infrastructure fund; the program capacity building area because we have community economic development officers; and the government’s other programs, the business support and the community infrastructure program.
With that, Mr. Chairman, I will end my comments.
We will now proceed to the page-by-page review of the Main Estimates. Starting on page K-5.
This page also includes page K-6.
We made a reference to the committee.
I would like to ask the minister; in the 2007-08 Business Plan, the Nunavut Business Credit Corporation Report. Will that be tabled? Why is the annual report for NBCC for 2006-07 late?
The report will be forthcoming. At this time the Auditor General is currently working on NBCC and is doing an audit for 2005-06. They’re currently working on the audit.
This should be coming out very soon.
I stated earlier under the committee report the Nunavut Development Corporation 2005-06 Annual Report. When will it be tabled in the House because it’s over a year late? Can the minister respond to that?
That report is completed. The Nunavut Development Corporation Annual Report for 2005-06 has to be approved by the Cabinet. Once it’s approved then it will be tabled in the House.
Once it’s approved by the Cabinet, who else approves it?
The Cabinet has to approve it in order for it to be tabled.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): Yes, I understand that.
This is an independent corporation and the requirements for the Nunavut Development Corporation; it probably states in the legislation that they have to table their annual report in the House.
It would seem that it would be more appropriate if its Board of Directors approved it. Isn’t that the case?
We will be tabling those reports because they first have to be approved by the Cabinet. That’s the procedure.
Just this past winter the Nunavut Business Credit Corporation and the Nunavut Development Corporation were reviewed by a consultant that was appointed by the government. I believe this has been completed.
What was the outcome of the consultant’s report and what was the outcome of the operational review?
There was a review of NBCC and NDC and the review has been completed and the report of the consultant is completed and is now presently being reviewed by our personnel.
It will either be amended or they’ll edit it and then it will be given to the Minister.
During the Committee in February you stated that you would be able to table the report. Are we going to be able to see the results of that operational review that you alluded to and are you going to be able to table it in the House?
Hon. David Simailak (interpretation): Once they are completed and reviewed by us, it’ll be approved by the Executive Council and then it will be tabled.
Well at that time, we will refer to your commitment again at that time and I am sure we will be able to see it in our May sitting.
My next question is in regard to the Nunavut Development Corporation and it has been in operation without any senior personnel. I am referring to the Nunavut Development Corporation.
We had to wait for the operational review of the Nunavut Business Credit Corporation and the Nunavut Development Corporation and that is what is holding us up at this time.
Mr. Curley: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to follow up on that because I think it is really quite important because of the legal requirements of these corporations are to have a Chief Executive Officer and without a Chief Executive Officer formally appointed as required by law, it tends to have an impact on the team; the executive team as well as the management team.
Is there any particular reason that Nunavut Development Corporation has not had a President since March 2004?
Hon. David Simailak (interpretation): To date they have had no president but up to 2006 they did.
They did have one, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
I would like the minister to table that Gazette because the current Gazette that we have which is the basis for legal appointments or not. It indicates clearly here that his term expired in March 2004.
So, unless that is wrong could the minister undertake to table that because there must be a reason for not reappointing the President that was appointed at that time. The only reason would be political I think or the internal management. It is supposed to be a pretty standard thing.
So is there a political reason other than management or operational issues?
Well, like I said, we are waiting for the operational review outcome before making any further progress.
The operational review covered a lot of items and from then on, we will see how we can revamp the Nunavut Business Credit Corporation and the Nunavut Development Corporation.
So with that, I wanted to make sure that we complete that operational review before doing anything else.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): So as long as it’s not a political issue. The Nunavut Business Credit Corporation seems to have problems and the Nunavut Development Corporation seems to be going okay. I don’t know what the tie is between the two.
Are we going to be able to get the information prior to the May session?
I can say that we will be able to complete all of this prior to the May session.
K-5 and K-6.
As my colleague was asking some questions in regard to the consultant’s report, the minister has indicated that they are in progression of reviewing that, and I know that no final decision has been made yet in regard to anything in there.
Can the minister give us an indication of what types of recommendations were made by the consultant in that report of the operational review?
No, I am not in a position to do that right now.
I know that my staff have received the report and they have been going through it, so we’re discussing it further with the consultant. Once we come to an agreement, at that time, I will get to see the report. I have no idea of what recommendations are in there at the moment.
Can the minister indicate when the department received the report?
It would have been mid to late February.
If the minister hasn’t seen that yet, I’m just wondering if his officials could give us an idea of what types of recommendations were made by the consultant, that they are looking at in that report.
I think that would be premature because the report itself is not finalized yet. It’s still under discussion between my staff and the consultants.
I very much look forward to seeing that report.
Another question I have is I know I brought it up earlier in this sitting in Question Period and the Nunavut Business Credit Corporation falls under this area. I would just like to ask the minister if he knows why the Auditor General decided to go and do a special audit on Nunavut Business Credit Corporation.
Mr. Campbell is in a better position to answer that particular question.
Just to provide some information on the types of audits that the Auditor General is completing on NBCC right now: there’s a financial audit that’s in the process of being finalized.
I was told that would be completed by the end of this month; a draft report finalized. That’s for the period, as the minister indicated earlier, for the period ending March 31 of last year.
In addition to that we have agreed with the Auditor General that a special audit be conducted on NBCC to look at the governance structure, the administrative structure, and to provide a report on that basis.
The reasons why we have requested these to be done are to identify areas that need improvement at NBCC.
In regard to governance and administrative audits, maybe I’ll just ask the minister or his officials if they could just give us a brief outline of how that governance and administration is handled now.
I know that it’s a Crown Corporation that’s under the department, but it also has a Board of Directors.
I’m just wondering if the minister or his officials can say who’s responsible for what with the NBCC from the ministerial level down.
To Mr. Campbell please.
The NBCC is an independent Crown Corporation of the government. The Crown, through the chair, reports to the minister. I provide some operational and guidance support for the CEO of the organization.
The Board of Directors are appointed by the Executive Council. A regular recruitment process appoints the CEO with HR being involved in the exercise.
I guess that’s it for now. If you need any more information, you can...
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’d like to thank Mr. Campbell for that response.
If I interpret that correctly the department and the minister don’t have any direct role to play in the actual governance and administration of that organization.
The fiduciary responsibility falls on the Board of Directors.
The minister is responsible for the Crown, first of all, through the Nunavut Business Credit Corporation Act.
He, through our recommendations, we issue a letter of direction to the Crowns on an annual basis. The Crown Agency Council, as well, is involved in providing the departments with support and some recommendations on improving financial reporting, accountabilities and governance issues.
So the Crown Agency Council is also involved in providing some direction, as well as acting in an advisory capacity for the minister.
Mr. Campbell had indicated that they had requested the Auditor General’s staff to do an audit on the governance and administration of the Nunavut Business Credit Corporation.
I don’t know if he can indicate why they felt that an audit like that was necessary.
Hon. David Simailak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Campbell will answer that question. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman: Thank you, Minister. Mr. Campbell.
We’ve had ongoing, as the members would appreciate and understand, concerns about the annual reporting and financial reporting of this particular crown, NBCC, due to a number of reasons including the capacity to staff the office at NBCC.
We’ve raised issues through the letters of direction on areas that we as a government wanted NBCC to improve on. The board of directors have tried to make sure some of those letters of directions were being followed through and proper procedures have been put in place. We rely heavily on CEO’s and their finance staff to deliver on some of the business plan commitments that they’ve made at NBCC.
My role as a deputy minister in that process is just to periodically report on progress to the monthly reports that were prepared by the CEO and providing commentary on some of the administrative procedures that they do provide.
But in a nutshell, it was these ongoing concerns that the department had, as well as, I’m sure, the members here, at not seeing the annual reporting of NBCC. The Auditor General has taken upon itself to review the corporation and to provide some solid recommendations to the Legislative Assembly and to the government on how to improve some of those practices at NBCC.
If I’m interpreting correctly, what I’m hearing is that the Minister and Mr. Campbell don’t really have much in the way of responsibilities, other than through the chairperson and the board, for the day to day operations, governance and administration of the NBCC, but that responsibility lies predominantly with the board of directors.
Hon. David Simailak: That is correct. Yes.
I was just wondering if the minister or his officials are aware of any specific concerns, as far as regular governance and administration, that haven’t been followed by either the staff or the board with NBCC.
I don’t want to interrupt the powers of the auditor general, in this process. They are presently auditing the financial transactions of the crown. We have been concerned, as I said earlier, as a department, and the minister has been concerned.
The minister has taken steps in using the legislation to change the reporting requirements on the previous CEO reporting directly to me on an interim basis until we can sort out some of those administrative and management and operational issues that are of concern to the department.
I can say to the members that, yes, I know of some of those concerns that have been identified, but I don’t want to relay those to the members. That responsibility I think should be the Auditor General making her report to the members, Thank you Mr. Chairman.
Chairman: Thank you, Campbell.
I can appreciate the position that Mr. Campbell is in on that, but I would just assume that there were some deficiencies and things that were of concern that were serious enough to get the Auditor General to go in and do an audit in that area.
I guess given that as well, have there been any changes in structure other than the CEO reporting directly to the minister? Have there been changes in staff or any changes in any other reporting procedures since the beginning of this audit?