EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
So, we would like to examine this closer.
That will require some discussion.
I do not want to proceed just too quickly to the point where they go too fast.
So, I’d like to take my time; perhaps this fall start discussions on the Wealth Act.
Does the department plan on then doing community consultations in the fall, to get some input from Nunavummiut on how they feel about it?
Most likely, but our goal is to get the new legislation in place before our term is up, because we feel that the current system needs some rethinking.
We would like to make sure that there are additional safeguards in place for families that may require it.
I can concur with the minister that I would like to see changes made to make things easier for Nunavummiut.
I am sure that the community consultations on it will be a good step in the process.
He had indicated that he would like to see it done before our term is up, that is, five years from now.
Is it going to be five years before we see any amendments come forward, or does he expect that in the next fiscal year?
When can we expect to see those?
I would like for it to be done soon, but I will see how the consultations proceed. If there are complex issues that our constituents want us to look at, then we will take a little bit of time. But this issue, yes, we will deal with it.
I want to be open to ideas from our constituents, and if you require a substantial amount of work, then we need to take the time to do it properly.
So, that is why I am trying to give some flexibility as to the time.
As I said, our goal is to have it in place before our next election comes around.
I have no other names on my list. We are on page E-8.
Justice branch summary. “Legal services:” $4,032,000. Do you agree?
Moving on to E-10.
Lawyer support services. Total, operations and maintenance is $2,074,000.
E-11.
Registries and court services. Total, operations and maintenance is $5,789,000.
Here again there is an increase of three PYs; actually, 3.5 PYs on there.
I just want to confirm what those positions are and if it is indeed 3.5 positions.
This is to reflect the concerns raised throughout that we had to increase the PYs for this division.
The family maintenance assistant is to assist single parents in collecting their child support.
There is also a family maintenance counsellor to assist families that may be in a difficult situation and need some counselling.
Hopefully they can work out their differences.
So, that is an added position.
We have also added assistance for Justice, a secretary and a half-time position for the Labour Standards Board.
Under contract services, that is more than cut in half from the revised amount last year.
I would just like to ask the minister why that is and what those contract services are for.
That is reflective of the additional PYs that we have put in place.
So, there are some adjustments where the contractors were before, perhaps, and there is also a reduction in costs associated with the courts.
Chairman: That’s it?
Page E-11. Total, operations and maintenance is $5,789,000. Agreed?
E-12.
Justice branch summary. Corrections and community justice. Total, operations and maintenance is $15,854,000.
Chairman: Mr. Evyagotailak.
You mentioned that there’s a manager that will be hired and will be taking training, and the issue of how to recruit staff from the new Kugluktuk men’s healing facility.
As I said in my opening comments, when we hired the manager for this facility… .
We are currently classifying the positions that will be put into Kugluktuk.
Once that is completed, then we will advertise.
The goal is to have the facility open this fall, and over the course of the summer we will be training the applicants that will work in the facility.
Once this facility is on the go, you’ll probably be hiring, I’m not sure how many.
But in Kugluktuk, maybe they can be hired for this facility so that hardship is not factored.
Hopefully, they will all be from Kugluktuk so it can bring up Inuit employment numbers.
Mr. Evygotailak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The reason why I asked is that if you are planning on hiring professional people from down south for the healing facility… .
I think it would be best to hire local Inuit and elders who can do a lot better to talk to people who need healing.
A lot of times when we will need healing, we’ll be more comfortable with an Inuk person rather than a person from down south.
I’m not against people from down south coming to work in Nunavut. But, in order to fulfill the needs of people who will be working up there… . People will also be more comfortable sitting across the table from the person who is looking after them for doing something wrong.
That’s just my comment.
Chairman: Thank you for your comment.
I’d like to ask the minister if his department has ever done any calculations for what it costs to house an inmate in BCC against sending a person, to, say, Alberta; I think the correctional centre down there is the Bowden Institution.
Have there been any calculations as to what it costs Nunavut? What’s the difference?
Yes, we have costed out how much it costs. Bowden is a federal facility, so we usually send them to Yellowknife to the correctional facility there, and also to Ottawa, that I’m aware of.
But I’m not aware of territorial inmates going to a federal facility.
But, yes, we have looked at the costs. I don’t have them with me at this moment, but I can give them to the member.
Mr. Peterson: I think that information will be useful for future discussions. I was wondering, Mr. Chair, talking about development programs such as diversion and quality education… .
One of the big issues in Cambridge Bay, and has been one for several years, is elder abuse.
The RCMP has worked with the hamlet and worked with the elders.
I am wondering if the minister could comment on the development of elder abuse and public education materials.
I think that is something the department should take the initiative on.
I know that we do have programs in place for when an individual is in our care, when they are in our facilities.
But, in terms of the general public, we have not done that yet. I’m sure we could work out a way that the minister responsible for elders… . Perhaps work on that for people that have not been charged or convicted.
I think that it will be worthwhile initiative.
While I was campaigning in my riding, it came up a number of times.
Elders were telling me that they need help.
Their pension funds are being affected.
They are not getting enough food.
I don’t know how big an issue it is across Nunavut, but it is something that has been discussed extensively in our community.
The hamlet council talks with the RCMP and groups around there and with the elders involved. It might be good if the Minister of Culture, Language, Elders and Youth or yourself were to talk to those folks.
That was my last comment, Mr. Chair. Thank you.
I would like to touch on this stage in E-13.
We are well aware that the hamlets get monies that would be used to fund justice committees, about $680,000.
My question to the minister… . We see a lot of the larger communities take on programs. When I was a mayor I thought that this was very important, and the justice committee would have a meeting every week.
They’d be paid $25, and they’d have a meeting of one to five hours’ duration, and then a volunteer would write up the minutes of the meeting.
Mr. Minister, I believe that we can talk about this issue for many, many hours.
But, at this point I would like to know from the minister if there is a way to increase the funding that is allotted for the justice committees.
Is it possible to increase the amount for the larger communities and to possibly access other pots of money and put it into this pot?
Well, I was shocked when I heard that they were being paid $25 for their services. I increased it immediately when I become minister.
They do get a larger amount because, of course, they are a valuable part of the community and they contribute a lot.
I wasn’t overly concerned about the honorarium that they receive.
What this justice committee does is take care of the young offenders once they’ve been handed over the RCMP. Is it possible to include funding for their operations with the many, many youth out there who are going through the alternative justice system? The amount of money that they receive does not amount to the large responsibilities that they are given.
They make huge contributions, and they make the operations smoother.
Mr. Minister, is it possible for your department to consider increasing the amount for this committee and for their added responsibilities?
The justice committees, of course, we’re very thankful to them.
We have excellent committees in some communities, and I would like to get them together so that they will find out what is in particular communities and what can be adapted to suit other communities.
Just a question on this.
The minister had indicated earlier in the directorate that they hired an elder.
My question here is in regards to both the Baffin Correctional Centre and also the young offenders’ facility.
Do people there have the opportunities… . Is there a program in place to allow them to talk to elders while they are incarcerated?
(Interpretation ends.) Yes.
Chairman: Thank you. (Interpretation.) You got the answer, Mr. Tootoo.
Mr. Tootoo: I did not hear his answer, Mr. Chairman, sorry.
I am just wondering, are those elders on a full-time basis or as-and-when-needed basis or casual basis, that they… . How does the system work with the young offenders and inmates that are incarcerated, in order to able to take advantage of the opportunity for them?
There is an elder working in each facility, and usually there are the land programs that we have for most facilities.
I guess a statistic could be a tell-tale sign of crime prevention and the work that is going on in the correctional centre for inmates to rehabilitate themselves.
But is it the department or the correctional centre that keeps track of what the re-offending rates are for both the young offenders and people that are incarcerated at the Baffin Correctional Centre?
Yes, they track who has been in and who has been out, and they track all the names of these individuals.
I would just like to ask, if that tracking is done, does the minister have any idea of what the re-offending rate is for both of those facilities?
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  Chairman: Mr. Minister.
I am sure we can get the numbers. I do not have them at my disposal at this time, but I guarantee to provide the numbers and see how it is going. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I could see that could be a useful tool in measuring the success of crime prevention and rehabilitation. Does your department have any other ways or means that it is using to measure the success of the crime prevention programs offered throughout the department?
Chairman: Mr. Minister.  Hon. Paul Okalik: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I’m not current on that. We could look into it, but I know that the outpost camp program has been very successful for young offenders, and I would love to see more of those. That’s the only one that I’m aware of, that has been quite successful.
As I said, I will have to get back to the member on the rates and on what other measures we can put in place.
Another thing here is there’s an increase of ten PYs from last year.
Are those additional positions that are required at the correctional facilities, here at the young offenders’ facility and BCC? Are they elsewhere as well?
As I mentioned in my opening comments, there will be 12 new positions for Kugluktuk.
So, that’s where the increase is.
Any more Mr. Tootoo?
It’s a math problem again. There’s only an increase of ten on there, so you must be taking a couple from somewhere else.
I’m just wondering if they are going to be transferring two PYs from somewhere else within the department.
We’re not trying to skew numbers. There are 12 that could be created for Kugluktuk; that’s all and nothing else.
I understand what the minister is saying, but on page E-34, it’s showing 120 last year and 130 this year: it’s only an increase of 10. I’m showing that should be 12, or there’s a couple of positions that were already based in that community that are being moved to that facility.
Can we just get an explanation on that?
Chairman: Thank you, maybe you can add to that number, Mr. Minister.
Hon. Paul Okalik: Yes, okay, the member outlined that there was an increase in the directorate.
What happened, what we just found out, was that there were two positions that we moved from corrections to the directorate section of the department.
That’s why it looks like there are only 10 positions coming from corrections. Actually, two positions have been moved to a directorate position.
Yet another unsolved mystery solved.
Great deductive work by the minister.
Out of the staff that are working at the correctional centre here… . I know that the Inuit employment numbers are low there because for one thing, it’s an environment that not a lot of people want to have to work in. I can recognize that, as I used to work in a correctional centre myself in the south.
On this I know that there is a lot of use of casuals.
I’d just like to ask the minister how many of the positions that they have there are indeterminate full-time staff, and how much staff constitute their use at the two facilities here in Iqaluit.
Currently there are 55 full-time correctional workers that could be hired at BCC and 18 full-time positions that can be hired for the young offenders’ facility.
As you know, it is difficult job, so we always have a hard time filling a lot of those positions.
A few of them are casual, so we want to hire more Inuit.
Actually, in the young offenders’ facility, we are advertising for positions where Inuktitut is a requirement for those that want to be employed in the facility.
Does the minister have an indication of how much casual usage is taking place at those two facilities?
If he does, is he going to let us know the numbers?
Hon. Paul Okalik: Thank you, Mr. Chairman I am advised that there is about a 40 percent casual rate at this time.
A high number, and I can acknowledge the rationale for this: people don’t want to have to work shift work and at nights, and they are not always in the most happy environment.
Given that, is there a plan that when you hire someone on casual, that they move into an indeterminate position, or is it kind of, someone just left so we need to… . Is there a high turnover in the casuals?
Are they moving into indeterminate positions? Or, are they not being hired because they want to have… . They perhaps are non-beneficiaries.
The minister indicated that they want to hire beneficiaries.
I am just wondering if that is a contributing factor to that high rate of casual usage.
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman The facility has to have guards 24-7.
If an employee is sick for a given day, we have to find a replacement.
That is where casuals come into play.
They have a role to play and we appreciate that service.
For casual Inuit that want to become full time employees, we have directly appointed them for those positions.
This is difficult work and night shifts are involved.
So, those create barriers that are not always attractive to a lot of people.
I could certainly acknowledge that fact.
I wish the minister and the department all the best in trying to improve those numbers.
He had indicated that there are 55 positions at BBC and 18 at Young Offenders. What is the vacancy rate right now on the indeterminate full-time positions there?
We don’t have those numbers.
They are changing quite regularly, so it is difficult for us to answer right now.
As I said, about 40 percent are casual.
So, that gives you an idea; I think 60 percent, perhaps, are filled.
I was talking to a constituent that used to work out there and was informed that upon completion of their term, it was a term position, that it wouldn’t be renewed, as it had to go out to a… . They were instructed that a beneficiary had to be hired for that position.
I am just wondering, in how many cases did they do this?
Is this something that has happened quite a bit, or is it just something that is hit-and-miss, a once-in-a-while opportunity or chances that that takes place?
In the event where something like that does happen, are there options given to the employee for other areas of work within either the department or the government?
I will not get into the specifics of a given individual, but I will say that when a person agrees to a term position, that is the end of the choice.
When the term ends then that is when it is completed.
No individual is barred from applying for positions, but our policy is to try and get as many Inuit in the correctional facilities; there are not enough.
We try to make sure that whatever we do does not hinder that.
We are on page E-12.
Corrections and community justice.
“Total, operations and maintenance:” $15,854,000.
Human Rights Tribunal.
Total, operations and maintenance is $583,000.
Pages E-15, 16, 17 and 18 are information items.
We go back to E-4.
Justice department summary.
Total, operations and maintenance is $48,993,000.
Chairman: Are you agreed that the Department of Justice is concluded?
Mr. Tootoo: I think I missed the Human Rights Tribunal.
I wanted to ask a couple of questions on that.
I was just wondering… . We were glad to see that the Human Rights Act that we passed last year and led to the tribunal… . I was just wondering if there are any indications from the minister as to how many people are going to be involved in the tribunal and where it is going to be located.
There will be three PYs. As to their location, we are awaiting the approval of the budget from that, and we will start finalizing the location.
So, I will be exploring options with members as to the location of the office.
We were on E-4.
The Department of Justice is concluded?
Chairman: I would like to thank the minister and his officials, Mr. Chartrand and Mr. Saez for being over there.
Do members agree that we proceed with the next department?
Coffee break, 15 minutes.
>>Committee recessed at 14:43 and resumed at 15:08
Chairman: Thank you for coming back.
The Minister of Finance, Ms. Aglukkaq, will make her opening remarks.
I’m pleased to appear before the Committee of the Whole to discuss the 2004-05 main estimates for the Department of Finance as well as the 2004-05 business plan.
I will begin with a brief overview of the department’s budget.
For 2004-05 the Department of Finance has allocated $52.5 million in the operations and maintenance expenditure as compared to $43.4 million from 2003-04 main estimates.
The major components of the department’s budget are: $16.2 million for compensation and benefits; $34.6 million to the centrally administrative programs and costs, including $7.1 million for government-wide employee benefits such as dental premiums, workers compensation premiums, and employee medical travel; $10.2 million for the lease cost of the Legislative Assembly building and other office buildings constructed by the Nunavut Construction Corporation prior to April 1, 1999; $5 million for the regular Power Support Subsidy Program; $10 million for a special fuel subsidy; $2.3 million for Government of Nunavut insurance premiums; and $1.7 million for other operations and maintenance costs.
The increase over the 2003-04 main estimates is a result of the introduction of a subsidy offsetting the Qulliq Energy Corporation.
Finance has six branches: Directorate; Fiscal Management; Internal Audits; Financial Operations; Centrally Administered Funds; and the Liquor Revolving Fund.
The department currently has a cost estimate of 147 person years composed of 106 in headquarters, 15 in Qikiqtarjuaq, 14 in the Kivalliq, and 12 in the Kitikmeot.
In addition, there are 7 positions funded under the Liquor Licensing Board and the Liquor Revolving Fund.
The department’s focus for 2004-05 will be to continue to provide central agency services in areas that include the support for the Financial Management Board, to manage the government’s overall fiscal position, and to oversee the financial framework and accounting processes.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Ms. Aglukkaq.
(Interpretation ends.) Do you have any witnesses that you would like to bring the table?
Chairman: Please take them.
Does the committee agree to bring in the witnesses?
Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses.
Ms. Minister, please introduce your witnesses.
Hon. Leona Aglukkaq: To my right is Robert Vardy, Deputy Minister of Finance, and to my left is Paul Reddy, Director of Expenditures Management.
Chairman (interpretation): Welcome Mr. Vardy and Mr. Reddy.
Does the chair of the standing committee have any comments?
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and my colleagues.
Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to provide you with the committee's comments on the 2004-05 main estimates and business plan of the Department of Finance.
The committee notes that the department's proposed budget of $52,513,000 has increased by over 90 percent since the department’s initial allocation of $27,548,000 in 1999-2000.
Members recognize that a significant proportion of the department’s budget is allocated for such government-wide functions as employee benefits, commercial leases, insurance coverage, and power subsidies.
Members also note that the department’s budget increase from 2003-04 is primarily due to a new $10 million subsidy initiative associated with the Qulliq Energy Corporation’s proposed fuel stabilization rider.
Members recognize the role that the department plays as a central agency. One of the most important functions that the department performs is co-ordinating the government’s budget process and preparing the annual estimates documentation and the public accounts.
Over the past several years, members of the Legislative Assembly have consistently called on the department to enhance the transparency and accountability of government operations through such measures as ensuring that the government’s financial statements are tabled within the timelines established by law, and expanding the level of detail contained in the main estimates, including information on prior years’ actual expenditures.
As the minister indicated, we hope to see this in next year’s estimates.
In her most recent report to the Legislative Assembly, the Auditor General notes a number of ongoing issues in these areas.
Although members are aware of the government’s responses to these concerns, it is apparent that more work needs to be done.
For example, members have noted that the government has offered excuses for its consistently late tabling of the public accounts, by referring to the fact that Nunavut Arctic College’s financial year-end occurs on June 30 as opposed to March 31.
If this situation is such a significant impediment to timely tabling, then members would recommend that the government proceed to amend the relevant legislation to change the financial year-end of the college to bring it in line with other Government of Nunavut entities.
Members have also noted with surprise that the department’s budget for internal audit services is projected to decrease in 2004-05, despite the clear need for a strong internal audit function within the government.
The committee would also wish to see the government’s annual consolidated financial statements include comprehensive information on its lending and borrowing activities under section 27 of the Nunavut Act, and that such information include a clear picture of the government’s available borrowing room.
It is alarming to members that the Auditor General’s report indicates that further work needs to be done to achieve a clear picture of exactly how much we owe.
Members were pleased to finally receive a copy of the territorial business case on fiscal issues that the GN, in co-operation with its territorial partners, submitted to the federal government.
While members recognize that some improvements to the level of support provided to Nunavut and the North were announced in the recent federal budget, the committee is concerned that there has been no announcement regarding the signing of a new formula financing agreement, despite the fact that the former agreement expired earlier this year.