EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
And, because its very expensive I think it’s going to create a lot of problems if you’re going to go for the lowest bidder. It would leave out the Nunavut businesses.
Is it possible to make that change.
This proposed policy is for the benefit the people of Nunavut and businesses.
Because of that we give 20 percent for people of Nunavut to make that adjustment.
So the Nunavut businesses have just as much opportunity as the larger businesses.
I’m starting to smile more about owning a business in Nunavut.
It also talks here about Hamlets, they do not own businesses.
Usually the Hamlets don’t own businesses.
It also states here that this would go through the Hamlets.
Is that the case Mr. Chairman.
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Everyone who uses government money, including the Hamlets Councils, if they are funded by the government by more than 51 percent they will have to comply with our policies.
Again we have stated that should there be any concerns we are open to any suggestions sometime in the future.
What we’re trying to do here is let the Nunavut businesses benefit from this policy.
Chairperson (Interpretation): Mr. Iqaqrialu.
A very clear response.
The Hamlets are local government and they have to treat people fairly and equally just like the Nunavut government.
If that’s the case then is it not possible for the Hamlets to be financially benefiting and pushing out the local businesses.
Is that going to be reviewed again by your staff.
This policy is for Nunavut businesses.
It is not for the Hamlet councils.
If the local businesses would like to sign a contract with the Hamlet council then they would have to comply with this policy.
If there should be a problem we will review this NNI policy again.
Yes, that’s it at this point.
Mr. Chairman, as you all know that the process and the development of this new policy involved the different businesses, the community sectors, businesses, and the regional chambers and stuff like that.
I’d like to ask maybe the Premier and staff.
Were there any particular concerns like the chamber of commerce had on the policy.
Hon. Paul Okalik: Thank you Mr. Chairperson.
Numerous concerns leading up to the production of the policy were heard and addressed through the policy.
In the initial draft, there were concerns over the grandfather clause.
We dealt with that over a transitional period under section 20 of the policy.
There were concerns with the different departments doing different things in accordance with the policy.
Like the criteria, the standardised criteria.
We dealt with it through section 11, through an evaluation process and the bid adjustment process.
There were concerns about the appeal process.
In the past, there were no appeals.
So, we addressed that by setting up an appeals process under section 18 of the policy.
There were concerns about the monitoring and enforcement under the old BIP policy.
We addressed that through section 14 and 15 by setting up a monitoring and enforcement process.
There were concerns there were no real employment and training benefits under the old policy.
We addressed that with bonuses under section 12, under bonuses and penalties under the new policy.
There were concerns for incentives for hiring Inuit for example.
We addressed that again through section 12, through bonuses and penalties in the new policy.
There were concerns raised about previous companies being covered under the policy when they weren’t entitled to be.
We addressed those under section 14 and 15 by monitoring the enforcement of the policy.
There were concerns about Inuit companies receiving extra incentives under the old policy, we addressed that through section 11 through the evaluation process and bid adjustment process.
So, there were numerous concerns raised and we addressed them through the policy and really appreciate the comments we received from all concerned.
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you Mr. Chairperson, I understand there are also representatives from NTI.
There were representatives of the Development Corporations on the working group, so I imagine their concerns were addressed in the working group.
Mr. Chairman, last week I was asking the Premier as far as having a limit or a cap on the subsidies provided.
I am just wondering if, specifically on a construction contract if there would be a limit on that.
I guess those can be quite substantial and I would venture to guess that beyond a certain point, I don't know if any numbers have been crunched on that but, beyond a certain point we are giving more money away than what we need to.
I am just wondering if that's been addressed.
As I stated in my prior answers, we set up a cap for goods at 100 thousand dollars.
So if it is a major construction project and the goods are pretty expensive then they will be capped at 100 thousand dollars.
So that is the cap on where it won't produce much employment for the residents of Nunavut for getting goods.
It is capped at 100 thousand dollars.
If it is a four million dollar project and the goods are 2 million dollars then they would receive a cap at 100 thousand for the goods, but for the labour itself and services there is no cap.
We want to create employment in the Territory, and that's one of the main focuses of the policy.
Mr. Chairman, in section 12 under bonuses and penalties, the first one says that contracts may provide for, and then it goes on to list the different bonuses.
If it is "may" or "shall" or "will" there are some that will and some that won't or what criteria are used to determine whether they may or may not provide for that.
Perhaps I can go from the changes that were made from the draft that you were provided.
Okay under section 12 for example, 12.2 used the word may on the first sentence, penalties may apply.
That has been changed to shall.
If you go to the next section, section 12.3, on the first sentence, bonus or penalty may has been changed to shall.
On the next section also where it is referring to may, has been changed to shall.
On 12.5 second line, may has been changed to shall. 12.6 also the first line, may has been changed to shall.
If you go to 12.7 as well the may has been changed to shall, so there is less discretion in the policy.
Does that clarify the question.
I would like to thank the Premier for those changes.
I know those ones between the old one and the new one, I was just saying in 12.1 where it says contracts may provide for, I just wanted some clarification on that one.
Chairperson: Mr Cornthwaite would you like to respond.
Mr. Cornthwaite: Thank you Mr. Chairman.
Basically there are many, many different types of contracts so it is something that can't be said that they'll always be able to be applied, because of the different types of contracts that the government has to enter into.
The government has to have the ultimate power to decide with regard to the incentives.
Hope that answers your question.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you. Mr. Tootoo.
So I guess, just to make that point clear is how this is going to be implemented is basically at the discretion of the Department responsible for doing that.
I don't know if there is a way that could be further clarified or not, just food for thought, maybe to take a look at it and add a little more clarity to it.
That's all I have for right now I will let somebody else have some questions.
Are one of you are going to be responding to that question.
Okay, other questions.
I don't believe it is part of this policy but it does have an effect.
The private businesses have a plan or put a business plan together when they are going to be trying to obtain some contracts.
Usually they hire lawyers to put the draft together, the agreement and the structure and so on.
Lawyers don't come cheap.
When businesses are trying to be established, what kinds of plans do you have that would help the potential businesses or what kind of support system have you established for businesses that are going to be starting up.
It doesn't have anything to do with the NNI policy.
This is more to help the businesses if they want to establish their own private businesses then possibly what they can do is use the Department of Sustainable Development.
It has nothing to do with this so I can't give you an adequate response.
I wouldn't say anything about it if it had nothing to do with this policy, but of course there are going to be businesses that will be established.
Once you establish a business you have to use this policy.
This is going to be a very important policy for us as the Nunavut Government and we will have to use Nunavut local businesses.
It has everything to do with the businesses that we are planning to establish.
So I would suggest that the Department of Sustainable Development work very hard on this issue and I can help them and give them advice.
Chairperson (interpretation): I don't hear a question.
In regards to the smaller communities they have small businesses that have been established and when they are bidding for a contract some of the people who own these small businesses don't know very much about the tendering process and bidding for contracts and so on.
Is there going to be training made available for these small businesses.
We are already starting the training process.
They are going out to the communities and we hope to cover all the Nunavut communities in this year.
Mr. Akesuk (interpretation): Since there is going to be support for the smaller businesses are you also going to be considering the other communities so that everybody will have a fair chance at obtaining these government contracts.
Mr. Premier or… Mr. Premier.
Yes if they are from Nunavut, they will get support.
There is a 3 percent local bid adjustment for businesses with local status.
The smaller businesses that are just getting established don't have the required equipment or they don't have vehicles.
For those that are just starting out.
There are some businesses that have all their equipment and there are some that are just getting established and have hardly any resources.
Are you going to be giving some support to those businesses that are just getting established.
Manitok. I am sorry, Ms. Thompson.
Hon. Manitok Thompson (interpretation): Just call me Manitok, it's okay.
I have got a very expensive name.
In regards to Mr. Akesuk's comments, the Department of Sustainable Development will be able to work with our Department so that the needs of the smaller communities will be realized if that is your wish.
Also we try and make sure that they contracts are put in the Hamlet offices and in the newspapers.
My department and Sustainable Development's mandates are a little bit different.
The Department of Sustainable Development is more to help the establishment of small businesses and with my department we deal solely with the contracts.
But we will take your issues into consideration and we will see how we can have a better working relationship on this issue with DSD.
Anybody else.
I couldn't find the button for my microphone.
In the NNI policy on section 9.0 the Clyde River Protocol.
Could you clarify that for me because it says the Clyde River Protocol, the only community mentioned is Clyde River.
It is the only community mentioned, so what is so special about it.
Yes, that just tries to elaborate the agreement that took place in Clyde River between Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated and that agreement was called the Clyde River Protocol.
So we used that Clyde River Protocol and that was only one of the protocols that we have used when preparing for this policy.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): But is there a Clyde River protocol.
Did you just use Clyde River as a name.
Could you clarify that again to me please.
If you remember, last year, I think it was during the fall, we signed an agreement between Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated and we agreed to have a meeting in Clyde River. NTI was going to have their AGM at that time but due to bad weather, they were unable to make it to Clyde River.
So therefore we had signed that agreement here in Iqaluit, and even though we did that, the agreement was called the Clyde River Protocol.
Mr. Nutarak do you have any further comments or questions.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): I don't mind using that name.
I think it was just last Friday when we discussed this matter the Premier had stated that the contracts that were in effect last year will continue to use this but they will use this new policy with the new contracts that take place in this fiscal year.
The Premier had stated that the policy would take effect on April 1st, and I know it will be implemented.
If we don't implement it I am sure there will be some problems that arise from it, if it doesn't go ahead.
As we have stated that housing shortage is in crisis now and we would like to see the units constructed this year and it is one of the Nunavut Government's highest priorities.
I know that the construction of housing will have to be tendered out this spring, if the Nunavut Government brings some process in on that agreement.
So I just wanted to find out what kind of consequences there would be if we do not pass this policy.
So I have those two questions.
Mr. Premier, if you or one of your officials would like to respond to that question.
Yes, this will take effect on April 1st, and as the Government we have the authority to regulate the policies and to implement them.
If any one of my colleagues had any concerns we are now collecting concerns so that we can amend the NNI.
So we are open to your concerns and your input but we would like to have this in place by April 1st, because there is going to be a large number of contracts that have to be bid on.
So once we are using this policy it is going to benefit the communities.
So therefore we want to implement this on April 1st, that's why.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Premier for giving us the opportunity to make amendments once we find out what kind of problems are occurring.
Since this is new we will implement it and once it come into effect we will know from experience what kind of problems will occur.
In regards to Mr. Iqaqrialu's question, I don't think they answered him properly.
Will the contract procedures be in Inuktitut.
For example if they want to build a water reservoir in my community, and that is tendered out, the contracting documents are about this thick.
A lot of reading is required.
Will these documents be translated into Inuktitut.
Mr. Premier, if you or any of your officials would like to respond.
That is a very interesting proposal.
I am a little bit afraid that I can't offer any judgement at this time, because to translate the technical specifications, drawings and the general descriptions of the projects might be really difficult.
I don't think we can promise you that this can be done, but if there are any serious inquiries for any tender, my ADM Jamie Flaherty is fully fluent, he will be able to interpret in some portions, providing this is done prior to the tender.
But we are not involving ourselves with pre-tendering or anything like this at that point, you have to realize that from the contracting law it is basically not permitted.
I am not sure if I answered your question, but I thought I would try.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Mrazek.
Mr. Irqittuq (interpretation): I apologize, I almost spoke as if I was the Chairperson.
So in regards to Mr. Iqaqrialu's question that is how I understood it.
That's why I just rephrased the question and asked the same question again.
I will be asking a question in regards to that question again.
My second question.
I know that in most of the smaller communities, small businesses are being established.
You either require the Worker' s Compensation Board.
There are many requirements in the contracts that hinder small Inuit businesses from applying for the contracts.
For example if I wanted to bid for the one hundred thousand dollar contract, I would have to pay a percentage of that.
We would need bid security at all times.
Even for the small businesses how can we give more forms of help for Inuit businesses that are establishing.
Mr. Premier or your staff, if you would like to respond.
Mr. Mrazek: Mr. Chairman the current situation regarding the bid security which is required by the law is still 100 thousand plus.
Now considering the prices went up considerably for the past couple of years the department is still seriously considering increasing the bid security to somewhere around two hundred fifty thousand dollars in order to reflect the possibility of giving the smaller contractors benefits so they do not need to contact the security or insurance companies to get the bid bond or performance bond.
That right now, we are exploring that possibility with the Justice people and we will be proposing that this is the way to go in reflecting on construction prices or contract prices because it will generally help the smaller contractor.
For the last number of years in some contracts we were able to eliminate the bid security specifically dealing with the Hamlets and the risk was absolutely minimal.
So that leads us to believe that increasing the bid security to a quarter of a million dollars is probably the right thing to do.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you for your response.
Do you have any further questions Mr. Irqittuq.
Mr. Irqittuq (interpretation): So I understand the bid security will no longer be in use.
I don't think I understand your response.
Are we going to do away with the bid security.
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Yes, at this point if you are going to bid for a 100 thousand dollar contract you need a security deposit.
Perhaps we need to increase the total number for bids up to a 250 thousand dollar contract.
A 100 thousand dollar contract doesn’t require a security bid.
If the contract is 250 thousand dollars or more then you require a security bid.
I hope I responded to your question.
Mr. Irqittuq (interpretation): My last question is more a comment than a question.
In most of the communities a majority of the businesses require assistance.
I myself experienced this.
They bypassed the smaller contractors, for example if they have to build an arena or to build a big housing facility.
The big housing companies don't want to hire local people for employment, they use transient workers.
Like GC North wins contracts they can afford to bring all their equipment into the community and once they are done they ship it all out again.
All the benefits do not trickle down to the community, it only benefits the big company.
This has been the case in the past.
Perhaps we should be saying that we are going to be utilising local businesses for construction purposes.
This way we will be able to help small businesses in the communities to develop.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Irqittuq that was more of a comment than a question, but I'm sure the Premier would like to comment.
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you Mr Chairperson.
I too have seen it that way when I worked at a local law firm.
The big companies bypassed us because we were northerners or Inuit.
That’s why I have pushed for this Nunavummi Nangminiqaqtunik Ikajuuti, because once we utilise this policy it will become beneficial.
So I understand where you are coming from.
Are there any more comments.
Mr. Tootoo: Mr Chairperson I just noticed while going through the budget address that a very small amount of corporate income tax was collected in Nunavut.
I would like to ask the Premier or his staff if through his consultations did he hear from anyone if Nunavut corporations paid their taxes, and is there anything we can do to benefit those firms.
Mr. Premier if you want to respond to that.
This policy did not focus on taxes.
We want to promote as much opportunity as possible for businesses in our territories.
So that is one of the reasons we have such a low corporate tax rate, probably one of the lowest in the country.
We want to promote more investment and opportunities for Nunavummiut.
Mr. Tootoo if you have any further comments.
Mr. Tootoo: I guess I was just wondering if we could provide more of an incentive to corporations who do pay their taxes in Nunavut.
Looking at the numbers and how much money gets spent up here it is quite obvious that a lot of those corporations do work up here but are based somewhere else.
I was wondering if we could look at implementing some type of incentive for businesses that do file their income taxes in Nunavut.
Mr. Premier or one of his officials can answer.
We are dealing with the Nunavummi Nangminiqaqtunik Ikajuuti policy.
So if you want to elaborate more or one of your officials, go ahead.
Hon. Paul Okalik: the focus of the policy is to create incentives for businesses in Nunavut.
If they are not based in Nunavut then they won't be covered.
For those companies that are situated outside of the territory who were once covered under the old Business Incentive Policy they have 2 years to fall into line.
Section 3, under the authority which allows cabinet on an exceptional basis to depart from the application of the policy, Mr. Chairman a couple of questions.
Why is that policy there and what are the types of situations that would warrant an exception.
I need some clarification there.
Mr. Mrazek: If you look at just about any policy there is always a clause for the authority to make an exception and override what is there.
So I think this is the reason the section is included.
I guess the deputy minister indicated it's there because it's always been there.
But what are the examples, if he has ever encountered any other than it has always been there.
There is nothing hidden providing that a paragraph or statement is there, and I cannot give you an example or envision what could happen in the future.
It is there because every policy has the authority statement.
I would like to make sure that Mr. Tootoo understands that it has not been put into the policy for any particular reason.
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you Mr Mrazek I just wanted to get some clarity for that.
Section 11.1 and 11.2 of the policy outlines the detailed bid adjustment values for Nunavut firms, Inuit firms and Local status firms, and Inuit content criteria.
Has the government calculated an approximate cost for implementing this policy based on those values.
Hon. Paul Okalik: Yes we have.
Mr. Tootoo: Would the premier be willing to let us know what those numbers might be.
Hon. Paul Okalik: I don't have those numbers with me but they can be provided. The old policy was around an 8 percent adjustment.
This new one should be around 9 percent.
So about a percentage increase in government costs.
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you Mr. Premier, but I would just ask if he is stating that it will be just a one percent increase I would like a total dollar value so we know what it is costing us to implement the policy.
I have another question Mr. Chairperson.
Will this policy affect the P3 projects.
The policy applies to all Nunavut businesses regardless if it is a contract for construction, a grocery store or something like that.
So Mr. Tootoo is right it will apply to P3 project contracting procedures.
If you can use the last names.
Mr. Tootoo do you have any other questions.
Section 11.5 allows the responsible department to develop evaluation criteria for specific professional service contracts.
I'm just wondering what types of contracts are envisioned here.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Mrazek or Premier, I don’t know which of you wants to respond to the question.
Hon. Paul Okalik: Thank you Mr. Chairman this policy covers every department in our government and any type of contract.
It could be for legal services or an engineering contract or it could be for a construction contract.
So, each department will address each contract for each case.
So do you mean any consulting contracts also are covered by this and they would apparently just be put out and tendered as well.
Hon. Paul Okalik: Yes, this is the case.
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you Mr. Chairman and thank you Premier.
I really appreciate those types of answers.
Under section 14 it directs that each contract authority will be responsible for monitoring and enforcing the policy.
What consequences will be in place for departments or officials that don't adequately apply the policy in their contracting.