EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
We held a hearing with witnesses appearing before the committee to answer our questions. We heard from Michael McMullen, Vice-President of the North West Company, Mr. Andy Morrison from Arctic Co-operatives Limited of Nunavut, along with Mr. Kenn Harper, who owns a small retail store here in Iqaluit. We sought the views of these individuals on whether the new Nutrition North Canada Program offered by the federal government is sufficient and adequate.
However, the concerns raised by the members on behalf of all Nunavutmiut were excellent and we need to follow through on them. The Nutrition North Program was developed as an alternative to the Food Mail Program by the federal government without consulting Nunavutmiut or requesting their feedback.
Individuals who were able order from their own suppliers from the south under the old subsidy program can no longer do that under the new program as the subsidy has been shifted to the airline companies and the large retail outlets. It seems that direct consumers have been abandoned.
The program is still being reviewed. Please provide letters of your concerns to your MLAs and inform your MLAs with your recommendations and suggestions to the federal government to improve this program.
I want to thank the people from Nunavut and I also urge Nunavutmiut to continue expressing their concerns to their representatives.
Orders of the day. Members’ Statements.
Moving on in the Orders of the Day, Item 4. Returns to Oral Questions.
Question 093 – 3(3): Contracting Practices (Schell)
In last week’s paper, there was an article on the front page that says, “Nunavut housing fiasco leaves contractors facing bankruptcy.”
The last couple days we have been dealing with Nutrition North and the federal government, and we have come to the conclusion that the federal government is favouring large corporations rather than these little mom-and-pop convenience stores in the communities.
I’m starting to think that the Nunavut Housing Corporation is working in the same way.
They seem to be favouring the large corporation that are getting these jobs nowadays and forgetting about the little mom-and-pop contractor that’s in the community.
The reason I say that is according to the NNI Policy, large corporations or any corporation that’s an Inuit corporation needs 51 percent Inuit ownership.
What these large corporations do is they get an Inuk over there to put in their corporation that has 51 percent, but has no say as to what’s happening, does not manage the money, and simply receives a salary.
Mr. Speaker, that is not fair.
The other problem is with these small contractors is the housing corporation, for instance, is making sure that when it comes to release of the holdbacks, they have to wait five to six months.
Also, they are not large enough to be able to get bonding, so they have to put a cash amount upfront.
They don’t get that back for a year.
That is enough to bankrupt any small company.
Also, the contractor, in a lot of these cases, is on the hook for missing material, even though the housing corporation is scattered all over the town and they weren’t there when the material arrived.
Also, most of these contractors are afraid to complain to the housing corporation because they figure that they will be further penalized by the power corporation.
I’ll give you an example of what happened with a contractor in Cape Dorset, which I brought to the minister’s attention twice but nothing was done.
It was a unit that this contractor tendered on. It was a five-plex townhouse.
It was the only bid on it, and when the housing corporation received the bid, the housing corporation brought him to the office and asked him, “Is there any chance you can take $100,000 off your bid?”
This was the response of the contractor because this was the highest amount that they ever had to have in Cape Dorset for Inuit content. It was 60 percent.
Since then, it has gone down to 20 to 25 percent and the contractor said, “The reason I bid this way is because there are two other major jobs on the go. I don’t think I’m going to meet my 60 percent content.”
Basically the housing manager said, “Well, do not worry about it. Have you ever been penalized for not meeting your Inuit content?”
Guess what? Not only did he drop it down by $100,000, he got penalized $100,000 for not meeting his 60 percent.
So my question to the housing corporation is: what are they going to do about this?
I also thank the member for providing the information to the House. I wish to state that I don’t read the newspaper articles, so I have no idea what he is referring to. They are not assisting us either with the housing corporation’s finances, especially in providing the best financial management.
We heard from the Auditor General through an independent review, along with cabinet recommendations on improving our financial management at the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
Many of the recommendations were incorporated and they have been implemented.
The one issue I fully know, Mr. Speaker, is this: the NNI Policy has never bankrupted a single company in Nunavut.
The information that you have gathered can also be reversed, especially when you talk about Inuit owned companies. For example, if my friend stated that he wanted to start a company as a partnership, even without an office, we can create a company without any investment and we can agree that my friend would own 51 percent and I would hold the 49 percent.
That is the only requirement and we don’t need to show proof or evidence of that ownership. The only thing that the 49 percent shareholders want is to be granted huge contracts and they aren’t inclined to check what the 51 percent owner contribution will be.
Let me reiterate that not one single company has been bankrupted by the NNI Policy.
If my colleague read the NNI Policy guidelines, there are compliance requirements.
One of the requirements includes financial statements to prove that they had staff on their payroll records and we were told by the Auditor General not to approve those claims without that information. We need to have the proper backup records.
Only one company was impacted because the contractors didn’t comply with the requirements and the contractors were paid without any information. The only organization that suffered by dint of this mismanagement was the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
This was in another year under a different administration, which started back in 1999, and they were proceeding without the proper records. This mismanagement is what brought down the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
I’ll just remind members to try and keep your preamble brief.
This will be a lot shorter.
The latest contractor that received the contract for finishing off the SIP units... . According to the NNI Policy, my understanding is that all of the business has to be done in the north for an Inuit company. Their office has to be in the north.
The communications has to be in the north, but it’s interesting that if you go on the website and look at the company, their phone number is in Rankin Inlet, but their fax number is in Nova Scotia. So my question is: is this a legitimate Inuit company?
Minister responsible for the Nunavut Housing Corporation, Mr. Curley.
I appreciate the point that the member raised.
All I can say is that the member’s opinion about whether or not it actually qualifies as an Inuit owned company proves exactly what I said in my response to you earlier.
I know that Article 24 is quite simple in stipulating exactly what constitutes an Inuit owned company, but it’s up to all parties, including the Inuit companies that are joint venturing with southern companies, to prove that they are legitimate. How the criteria are used to actually stamp that it’s now legitimate, which is done by NTI, I can’t speak for them because they have their own guidelines as to who qualifies as an Inuit owned company.
So I would suggest to the member that it may be best that he speak directly with NTI because they are the ones who pass on those records to the Nunavut Housing Corporation and CGS or for a matter of fact, to the whole government these are the Inuit owned companies.
How they arrive at it, what the discretionary evaluation criteria are, I can’t speak for that.
You will have to contact them directly.
Mr. Schell, your second supplementary.
With these large contractors doing these jobs in all of the communities, the local contractor is not getting any work. I realize that you are in a large deficit there and you’re trying to get the cheapest price.
What happened for many years is there were no contractors in these communities and the housing corporation negotiated with a lot of people trying to get companies set up. They got these companies set up and the only job these small companies can bid on is a housing job. They can’t bid on a large school or whatever.
So my question to the minister is: what is he doing with these small contractors?
After they supported them for a while, all of a sudden they throw them out to wolves.
They don’t seem to care if they go bankrupt and a lot of them, I’m telling you right now, are on the verge of going bankrupt because they haven’t got any work.
So my question to the minister is: what’s going to happen when all of a sudden there’s very little work with the housing corporation?
These large contractors are not going to do that work. What’s going to happen then? The prices are going to go up.
Hon. Tagak Curley: I appreciate the member’s concern.
I think we all share the concern that our economic groups, not just the small contractors for construction companies, were facing an economic downturn for the last three years. Particularly in Nunavut, I know very well that challenges for economic prosperity and opportunity is much greater than those companies south of 60.
It is not specifically up to one department or agency or Crown corporation like the housing corporation to ensure that companies do survive in Nunavut. It’s really up to the small companies to actually find a way to market their products and businesses, and how best to shape and be able to be a successful contractor.
That is up to the owners as well as the shareholders. So in my view, they need more information. If they need more information from us prior to the contract being issued, that’s something that the housing corporation, in its part, can possibly do.
Before I ask Mr. Schell for his final supplementary, I’ll just remind all members that questions are not to be hypothetical. Please go ahead, Mr. Schell.
Mr. Schell: Not a problem. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It is not just in one community; there are a few communities where the housing manager had basically told the contractor not to worry about the NNI Policy because they haven’t been penalized previously.
My question to the minister is: does that not mean anything when the housing manager makes that statement or it doesn’t really matter?
Hon. Tagak Curley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can’t respond to that particular hypothesis because I haven’t seen the detailed complaints about that particular stuff. It really means that it’s his word against the officials, maybe.
That’s the way it looks like.
Mr. Speaker, I think we have been fair to Nunavutmiut. Any company that bids and gets a contract on the strengths of the NNI Policy in the first place, it’s not normally a better bid in terms of the value, the cost. It is actually significantly higher than the other company’s bidding.
With a bid adjustment, you can actually lower it down by given percentages that are stipulated and what qualifies to discount that original high bid. Therefore, if they’re awarded, they begin to implement the contract and do so. It is also very clear in the NNI Policy that if you don’t meet the labour percentage you said you would get when it’s evaluated at the end of the term of the contract, they are subject to penalties because they did not honour the compliance requirements of that contract.
Likewise, if they exceeded that labour provision more than they said what the minimum Inuit local labour would be, then they are eligible for bonus provisions. So it works both ways.
In both cases, Mr. Speaker, what’s fair is this, and the housing corporation is implementing that, you have to prove that you actually hired that many people.
The only way we can find out, and we are required by the Auditor General, is to have backup proof. The best proof of that issue would be to prove the record of employment. A payroll record for that particular term of the contract is required before they’re either penalized or awarded a bonus.
I think it is fair, Mr. Speaker, both ways.
Question 094 – 3(3): Cancer Screening and Prevention in Nunavut (Ugyuk)
Ms. Ugyuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Health and Social Services.
Mr. Speaker, more and more Nunavummiut are being diagnosed with cancer, but it seems that in many cases, the diagnosis is coming too late for them to get the proper treatment.
Can the minister inform this House whether or not his department keeps track of the number of cancer diagnoses there are across Nunavut and at what stage the cancer is at when it is finally diagnosed?
Minister of Health and Social Services, Minister Curley.
Hon. Tagak Curley (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I understand the gist of your question, that many people are worried about these late diagnoses. In some cases, people have been diagnosed too late, not just in our jurisdiction here in Nunavut, but some patients pass away due to this in other places.
Your question is not asking about treatment we offer these sick patients, but your question is too complex to answer as it involves the whole system.
I cannot state that this is the case in all of these situations, but we can say that the people who work as nurses and doctors at Health and Social Services work extremely hard in trying to provide the best health care in the communities.
When someone is ill, they have to be tested earlier and as soon as possible.
This is also an onus on individuals. If we feel unwell or feel that we are suffering from an illness, we have to take the initiative. As we stated earlier, even though it can be very difficult for a person, as my colleague stated, even though it is a heavy matter, we have to push for more testing and ensure we list all of the symptoms to the health care providers.
Sometimes people are reluctant to disclose their symptoms and the doctor or nurse can misunderstand.
I know this from a personal perspective, as I had a heart problem for many years but I thought I was healthy.
I had difficulty breathing and even had to rest when I would walk around.
In many cases, people assume that they don’t have a health problem and this is especially the case with men who don’t like to go the health centres.
We have to encourage our relatives to be in touch with their own bodies and not depend entirely on the health system diagnostic tools to determine whether or not they are really sick.
You didn’t answer all of my questions. I asked if they keep track of the number of cancer diagnoses there are across Nunavut.
(interpretation ends) My question is: according to the government’s Public Health Strategy document which was tabled in the House on November 1, 2010, the breast cancer mortality rate in Nunavut is the lowest in Canada.
Women can conduct self-examinations for the beginning signs of breast cancer.
The strategy also shows that Nunavut’s rates for colorectal cancer mortality are four times higher than the national average.
Can the minister advise this House whether there are procedures that men can follow by themselves to look for the beginning signs of cancer?
Hon. Tagak Curley: Mr. Speaker, certainly I, as the minister, can’t provide exact statistics or whatnot as these statistics are actually, probably in some cases, dealing with ongoing medical treatment or whatnot, but our officials at the Public Health Division, including our chief medical health officer, probably have some numbers in regard to that.
As well, we do publish the various annual reports required under the legislation, which we publish.
Until this information is available, I can’t really take time or request my officials to give [information on] a specific area.
But we do know that, in terms of the breast procedures that we have in every community, well woman clinics are scheduled every month and whatnot.
It’s up to our clients in communities to ensure that they do participate in that because they are normally in the first stage of trying to get information or whatnot and it’s up to an individual to take advantage of that and we urge that information.
I know our nursing staff in every village normally publicizes those in communities to ensure that people who have some concerns with their health take part in those clinics that are scheduled practically every few months, from what I know.
I had referred to men in my previous question, but you didn’t respond to it.
However, my other question is: (interpretation ends) the Canadian Partnership Against Cancer is a federally funded program that works with provinces, territories, and other groups, such as aboriginal communities, to help reduce and prevent cancer amongst Canadians.
Can the minister confirm whether or not his department works with this organization to address cancer issues across Nunavut?
Hon. Tagak Curley: Mr. Speaker, we’re very much part of implementing public health strategies, which means all levels and areas of particular public health issues that are of concern for Canadians, including cancer and minimizing cancer.
In many ways, we work particularly with the Public Health Agency of Canada. They have a number of initiatives and strategies in place. These discussions are ongoing.
I mentioned earlier this morning in my statement as well that obesity is becoming an issue which could lead to a number of sicknesses in life. I didn’t say it specifically in that regard, but it could have some consequences.
We are part of the national strategies.
Our officials, through our deputy minister and staff, including our chief medical health officer, are very much in contact with all national strategies that are taking place.
To be honest with you, there will be a series of meetings that are going on and these discussions are partnering with all various, not just the Crown agencies of the federal government but also private major health care providers in some respects, that are concerned with the health of Canadians.
These are very active groups throughout. Our department officials are very much part of that.
Ms. Ugyuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (interpretation ends) In looking through the department’s 2011-14 business plan, there doesn’t appear to be any cancer specific programs in Nunavut, even though it is one of the leading causes of death across the territory.
Can the minister clearly describe what cancer screening and prevention measures are available to all Nunavummiut on a regular basis and especially for men?
I appreciate that. I think what I want to say is the information that’s available for treatment, including men or whatnot, the department doesn’t specifically address which generic or whatnot or the status of individuals who require treatment to be treated more specifically than the others. Sure, I think we want to treat all.
Individuals who may wish to be evaluated further have an opportunity. That’s the commitment that the department is committed to, regardless of the sex of an individual.
We will continue to monitor and work towards making information available to all, including working with our partners in communities, community health committees, which we continue to evaluate the fact that they could be doing more to provide public information.
Public health is an important category and it applies to all levels of our clients and members of Nunavut. We will continue to try and improve where we have weaknesses and we’re committed to that.
We will not leave anyone marginalized because one simple report or briefing document doesn’t say it.
Public health is a huge obligation of the government, a mandate that we will continue to work towards ensuring that Nunavutmiut have the services they need or at least get an opportunity to be evaluated when they need it.
Moving on to Oral Questions. Member for Amittuq, Mr. Tapardjuk.
Question 095 – 3(3): Environment Week 2011 (Tapardjuk)
This morning in your Minister’s Statement, you stated that June 5 to June 11 marks Canadian Environment Week.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the minister to provide further clarification about the Environment Week Challenge he referred to. You stated, “… we are asking Nunavummiut to share their views on what environmental stewardship means to them.
All participants will receive an eco-friendly prize and the best entries will be published and shared throughout the territory.”
Mr. Speaker, what I wanted to understand is “The goal of this campaign is to inspire people to reflect and take pride in both the environment and the age-old traditions that continue to help people live in harmony with the land.”
I don’t understand what you mean by “the environment and the age-old traditions.” Perhaps he can clarify that part. Does that mean individuals who have taught others to live in harmony with the land?
Mr. Speaker, I would like clarification firstly what he meant by age-old traditions in his statement.
I thank the member for that question on what age-old tradition means. First of all, I think it’s a very important week. The Environment Week is in response, education, and a forefront to make sure the environment is a healthy environment and that it sustains proper management of wildlife and is there for the people to use.
The “age-old” statement means, I think to my mind, that when we go out in the environment, we left that environment how we found it. So the point is when you go out there and you take litter with you or any other things with you, you bring that stuff back home with you when you go home.
Mr. Tapardjuk (interpretation): Indeed, I think it will be quite interesting to read his response in the Blues.
The reason why I asked that question was because the idea of literary awards has its place and the telling of stories helps literacy.
In May, on the celebration of Queen Elizabeth’s great-grandmother’s birthday, Victoria Day is a national holiday and a lot of people went out on fishing derbies.
It seems obvious to me that many hundreds of pounds of garbage were left behind by some participants, including camp stove fuel cans and other debris.
Mr. Speaker, I want to ask if the Department of Environment has identified any funding for cleaning up lands after a community has held an event.
No, there are no funds identified in the department to clean up such instances as fish or litter that is left on the land after a fishing derby or an event like that that reflects on the environment.
I think all of us as individuals in Nunavut and communities the responsibility is put on all of us to take care of the land. If we take that out there and we leave things on the land, it is our responsibility to clean that up.
Participants are generally advised prior to the fishing derby that they should bring back their garbage. This message is repeated continually.
However, Mr. Speaker, there are old archaeological sites, old spring camp sites, as well as other sites that have been littered with garbage, not just from recent activities, as many Inuit utilize these sites.
Has the Department of Environment discussed or worked with the local HTOs in determining how to best clean up these old camp sites or other sites that are littered with garbage?
At previous mayors’ meetings and mayors’ forums, this question has been brought up. I have invited all mayors of communities as well as HTOs of communities, if they know where such sites are, that they inform us and inform the hamlet councils. We will ensure we work together with them and make sure the responsible people for cleaning up those sites clean them up.
You final supplementary, Mr. Tapardjuk.
I am unsure if the minister understood what I stated. I wondered if you have held discussions with the hamlets or HTOs on the sites that would be the priority.