EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Mr. Chairman, I’m not so much concerned about the Minister’s department being able to confirm the ten million dollars that was provided by the federal government up to this date, but more or less, can we expect additional support, human support from the federal government from the department of D.I.A.N.D. in reference to our efforts to connect, I guess, all the communities the information highway.
I’m not sure, did you indicate that there was fifteen million dollars that you were going to spend, okay?
The second part of my question is in reference to connecting up the smaller communities… we always hear that the larger centres for many, many years that they’re always hooked up first… there’s lots of good reasons for that, but I guess my concern is that the smaller communities are equally as important, probably more so because they need that service.
My question is…is there any relationship or co-ordination between your department and, Minister, and the Department of Education in reference to the information highway.
Chairperson (interpretation): Which of you will provide a response to that?
Ms. Thompson?
Hon. Manitok Thompson: Not being fully briefed on all the details of this department, we’ve been very busy with our priorities, I’m sorry to say that, but our priority is to serve the communities the best we can.
I’ll let Mr. Mrazek add on to what I’ve said.
I’m pretty sure that we will also service the small communities with the Department of Education if  we have to, but I’ll let Mr. Mrazek elaborate more on that.
Mr. Mrazek: With that, I think we will put a little bit of light into it so member from Arviat will get hopefully little bit clear picture.
Eventually, all communities will be connected through the server and the main network.
We have just completed meetings last week with NorthwestTel and we tried to resolve a number of the telecommunication issues between government, between the NorthwestTel, between the Ardicom and few other suppliers.
This thing is really a complex project.
I’m sorry I’m not able to give you a specific date but we have the three major communities operational.
We will be hooking up the Arviat within the next several weeks and so is Kugluktuk, which will be operational and other community will follow.
This progress, it’s extremely complex; it takes a very lots of energy, manpower, and it’s basically going every two weeks and there are very serious meetings and progress check outs.
I’m sorry I cannot give you anymore specific dates, but it’s definitely nothing more original than to have all the communities connected in all through the intercom.
Thank you for that response, Mr. Mrazek.
So the people back in my home community will be pleased to hear that, we hope not for the next few weeks.
My next question is in reference to some clarification on the BIP, the Business Incentive Policy.
In article 24, do we have anything in place at this point to say that the B.I.P. will be in place prior to the summer projects being started or concluded?
Chairperson (interpretation): Ms. Thompson?
Hon. Manitok Thompson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I hope you will be able to understand that because they will be translated to English for sure.
At this point in time, some of the duties as I understand them, they’re being developed and we’re using the existing policies at this time, but as I stated earlier in my opening comments… Article 24… we are reviewing Article 24 because there is no way around it; we have to implement it especially with the creation of the Nunavut territory and again it’s part of our…part of the constitution and this help and we’ll be developing a policy as how best implement Article 24 and we’ll be involving NTI and consulting with them, and we have to work with different organizations because, as we’re developing the policy, we have to have a working relationship with those different organizations, both departments and Inuit organizations as well as federal departments.
Perhaps Mr. Mrazek will speak to this point a little further so he can clarify the situation.
Sometimes, when it goes through the translator, it kind of loses the meaning.
Chairperson (interpretation): Do you wish to add on to this, Mr. Mrazek?
Mr. Mrazek: I would like to add just a few notes for the benefit of everybody.
The Business Incentive Policy has been approved last week, and it’s interim measure for one year, and what’s happened basically is that the business and companies will get preference only within the Nunavut territory.
This way, they benefit the companies and definitely benefit from that location.
As far as the Article 24 is concerned, we will be honouring that Article 24 and will start negotiating later on this year with NTI to develop working relationship and more details how to implement Article 24 because we are still going and adopting the working details which were developed two years ago between the  G.N.W.T. and NTI as the interim measure.
Thank you, Mr. Mrazek for that information.
I wonder if the Minister and her staff can speak briefly to their current thinking on sealift options.
Chairperson (interpretation): Ms. Thompson.
Mr. O’Brien: I couldn’t hear that…my headset…could she repeat that?
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman…Thank you, Mr. O’Brien.
Can you please rephrase your question and ask…make it as understandable as to what you wish to make it understandable… what you wish spoken to…what you are alluding to, can you clarify that please?
Mr. O’Brien: In reference to sealift; have they reviewed sealift as it is?
Do they anticipate any changes as far as usage, schedules, and so on…is there any…we’re thinking of existing sealift operations.
Hon. Manitok Thompson: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairperson.
We’re up to review anything now because we’re the new government, I guess.
That’s our goal, to develop a new system in this government if it doesn’t work in the old system, but I’ll let Ross elaborate more on that, but what I did say in my statement was that we will be reviewing the cost of fuel that’s with the re-supply through barges and ships because there’s different subsidies in different communities, if that’s part of that, but everything’s up for review if the members wishes for something to be reviewed in my department, but I’ll let Ross elaborate more on the ships, and barges, transportation in that area because I’m not very familiar with that yet.
Chairperson (interpretation): Please proceed.
Mr. Mrazek: In case of sealift, you probably know that there is still contract with NTCL which government will be using.
I believe that contract will expire next year.
Every region is slightly different rate, and to be totally honest with you, we didn’t spend time and effort due to many other priorities for the last two months, and that’s basically what is happening right now.
Mr. Puqiqnak was actually ahead.
Go ahead, Mr. Puqiqnak.
Mr. Puqiqnak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
When the Minister was sitting and making her opening comments, in respect to petroleum and the purchase of petroleum... I just want to clarify... I just want to understand buy the gasoline in the Baffin, where do they purchase the petroleum for the Keewatin, where do they buy the petroleum for the Kitikmeot.
I would like to understand who the suppliers for the petroleum are.
Hon. Manitok Thompson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Chairperson.
I might be mistaken, I seem to know a little bit of it, so I would refer that to Mr. Mrazek.
Chairperson (interpretation): Go ahead Mr. Mrazek.
Mr. Mrazek: Petroleum Products division tenders the fuel supply every year on the world market.
One year you may get gasoline from Amsterdam, and another year from Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, and everywhere else.
It depends on who will give the government the best possible price for fuel or oil.
In the case of the Keewatin it is usually through the port of Churchill.
So maybe that will give you some idea, it's not exactly locally bought purchase for fuel, because when you are dealing with millions and millions of litres you have to look for an economy of scale so the people in the community will be able to pay a reasonable price also.
I hope that answers some of your questions.
Mr. Puqiqnak (interpretation): Mr. Chairperson, I would like to buy petroleum from Saudi Arabia because when I smell the petroleum here, it's smells better than the gas we have.
It has a sweeter smell than the fuel we have.
I keep going back to the petroleum because, I am sorry I have to debate these issues, because I am representing my constituents and they keep expressing concerns about that and I am trying to do a good job in representing my constituents.
Therefore I keep bringing that up.
I would also like to raise another question, Madame Minister and her officials, I know that you will be meeting with them but however, we have heard through the media and I have heard from my constituents both through telephone, faxes and mail that the residents of Gjoa Haven are extremely displeased with their gasoline.
I tend to believe that.
I wish to raise a question to you and your staff.
Your review, or research into the petroleum products, when will that be completed?
Perhaps if you found out the reason for the gasoline problems, I would like to hear that as soon as possible.
Again, there have been a lot of machines breaking up and if you could find out, perhaps, the reason for the breakdown of these snowmobiles, I would like to find that out.
As well, I know that this year, I was there, and the search & rescue division had to go and get people and had to use a lot of gasoline in order to rescue the hunters.
Even the search & rescue vehicles were breaking down and that was causing a safety concern.
What are you going to do about this, what are your plans for this problem that we are having in Gjoa Haven.
Starting in 1999, in January, from then we have been sending letters to the GNWT and it's already been four months.
I am sorry, I have started to ramble on here, but I would like to find out about this.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Puqiqnak.
I understand that he is trying to represent his community and he is doing a good job.
Again, we are the conduits for anything whether it be pleasurable or not, because we are representing our community concerns because that is our mandate.
He is representing his community, I understand his comments properly and he raised a question in respect to the petroleum in Gjoa Haven.
Although I understand now and when he posed his question I have kept trying to get a response on this.
My staff know exactly what has been happening in Gjoa Haven, as well as the research into the petroleum.
This is the one thing that I have understood today, the government research into the gasoline, they said that it was in acceptable levels.
I understand that the Hamlet also had an independent researcher look into the make up of the petroleum.
I am not sure if this is true but I believe that they said it was acceptable.
This is the extent of my understanding on the matter.
In respect of the snowmobiles that were breaking down, I have heard about it through the radio, I heard the Mayor alluding to this point.
I think you all know that I am not responsible for skidoos or for spark plugs, but I have agreed to go to Gjoa Haven, with my staff, especially when the Kitikmeot leaders have their meeting, but right now I am not sure what my plans are in respect to the breakdowns of the snowmobiles and I am not sure how we'll deal with it.
There are a lot of factors involved in skidoo breakdowns, this I know, however, to date the research results have consistently come out saying that it is acceptable.
That's all I have at this time but I will be visiting Gjoa Haven and the residents to meet with them on this petroleum issue.
I am sorry that this has been like this for a while and I know that they're very displeased with it.
Thank you Mr. Chairperson.  Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Puqiqnak, perhaps if you have questions other than the petroleum, because I know you will be dealing with that and the Minister has stated that she will go to the community.
Do you have any other questions in respect of some other matter for public works?
Mr. Puqiqnak (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Chairperson.
If you had a better response then I would prefer to be at the meeting, but if you are just bringing the same response then I would prefer not to be at the meeting.
If your response is going to continue to be the same then I am not going to be there, but if you were to show some new initiative then I would want to be involved.
Mr. Chairman, I also wanted to emphasize to the Minister and her department the gasoline that caused the breakdowns this winter is going to be used again for the summer season.
I guess some of the hunters are giving up on their summer travel plans, because again they know they might lose their outboard motors if this winter is any indication of the breakdowns of snowmobiles.
I am sorry that I keep referring to gasoline and petroleum, because again this has caused a lot of stress in our community.
Especially this winter.
Again, you did not quite respond in respect to, I know that you stated that you are not responsible for snowmobiles broken down this winter, but what are you going to do about it?
I understand that the member doesn't want to meet tomorrow, and I accept that, I have other things to do I guess, it's okay.
I appreciate his comments, I don't know if I have any new items in regards to this, I am just a new Minister.
I am sorry to say that, I am reviewing what has been going on with the departments.
What I can say is that, if we are going to compensate the skidoos, then we will have to do it for everybody else that has problems with their skidoos and I am not prepared to do that. I'm sorry to say that.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Ms. Thompson. Mr. Puqiqnak are you done?
Don't give up just because you get refused once, you have to be persistent and that's why you were elected.
I think I should be sitting where you are Madame Minister, I think that I would be perfect for the job.
Also I would like to say the opening comments that you made, we didn't have a copy in front of us and I think that some of them were really good, so I think that is part of our difficulty.
Since we don't have the paper in front of us and we are trying to deal with that, and we do have the budget estimates, we have these figures, but your opening remarks, I think we are going to keep having difficulties until we have them in front of us.
Perhaps we should take a break, and copies of your opening comments could be made and we would feel much better to deal with the budget estimates, Madame Minister.
I do think that I would be good in your position as Minister because I know all about the man things, like you said before.
Chairperson (interpretation): Would you stand up Madame Minister and Mr. Iqaqrialu will take your place, just kidding.
Let's take a short break to regroup after Ms. Thompson makes a comment.
Hon. Manitok Thompson (interpretation): I am sorry, I am the best person to do this job, I know this department, I am going to learn it, I am the best man for this job and you are not much of a man if you stand beside me, so don't bother challenging me.
Yes, I can do this group and don't patronize me because I am a female, because I know that I can work for PWTTS, Thank you.
Chairperson (interpretation): We will regroup and get copies of the opening comments and come back shortly.
>>Committee recessed at 4.38 pm and resumed at 4.57 pm.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you please take your seats.
We are not supposed to have coffee in the Legislature, so please ensure that you don't bring your coffee in here.
I was told that even in the Committee of the Whole, that was the protocol.
The translations are still being carried out and when they are completed they will be handed out.
You will be receiving an English copy at this time.
Again, the clock is running and I would like to return to our meeting.
Mr. Iqaqrialu, I believe Mr. Iqaqrialu has another question, we will not be voting on the matter right now.
In regards to the BIP that we just heard about, Article 24, that we just heard about.
This afternoon earlier in question period, contracts in regard to RFP's.
I am sure that these are awarded to the best proposal and if they have BIP and if they have Article 24.
The problem that I see with RFP's, and I have asked the question earlier today to my colleagues, is that it is not necessarily the lowest bidder that gets it.
So if we have an RFP that is 20 - 40% higher than the low bidder and then we throw BIP on there, and then we include Article 24, is there going to be cost down the road at some point that we may not be able to afford to do this in our contracting?
Ms. Thompson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Chairperson.
I would like to thank the member for his concern.
We had talked about that and we have the department working with other departments to see how we can deal with Article 24, in the Nunavut Government, in a public government.
I will have Mr. Mrazek update us on his discussions in regards to Article 24 and BIP for contracting in Nunavut.
Mr. Mrazek will elaborate a little bit more on that.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Mrazek.
Mr. Mrazek: I will try to describe the correct answer to Mr. McLean specifically.
There is a major difference between a tender and a request for proposals.
Tenders are completely public, request for proposal is not.
That doesn't mean that people are prevented from providing a request for proposal.
The only thing which contracting procedures, according to the Financial Administration Manual are prohibiting is to disclose prices to the general public with a request for a proposal.
The reason for this is that you may receive more than one, or several proposals which are completely different and you are not able to award an request for proposal to a proponent strictly based on the price.
You will be basically comparing apples to oranges, technically, if you are disclosing that.
Requests for proposals are evaluated on selected criteria, price is one of them, but obviously there are many others.
The evaluation process is completely fair, can be verified, it is usually a committee, and obviously the cost/benefit analysis, including BIP and Article 24 plays a major role.
I am not sure if I answered your question, but any request for proposals, even including the tenders, they don't have to be awarded if the government finds that they are not able to pay for it.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. McLean.
In the presentation out of 108 positions in regional operations, a total of 40 new are staffed by Inuit.
This represents 37% of the work force in the department.
The services provided are purchasing, contracting, building maintenance and delivery of petroleum products.
Is the department taking a concerted effort to make sure that the Inuit employment factor gets up to at least 50% and is the department conscious of that in bringing more people into this department?
Sorry Ms. Thompson, or Mr. Mrazek.
We will make a commitment to do Inuit employment plans for the department if it has not been done already.
I will be committed to bringing more Inuit staff into this department as I have been asked by the member.
We will make sure that this is done by this department.
I am sure that we have Inuit employment training plans within this department and I do know that my staff is very good at trying to recruit as many Inuit as they can, but I will review that with my department and make sure that it gets done by this department.
Mr. McLean: The decentralization plan for the department is proceeding.
This is scheduled to begin in the year 2000, as additional housing and office space becomes available.
Speaking for my own community there is an abundance of staff housing and office space.
If the Minister needs correspondence, I can make it available to their department, but I am sure that they have it.
There are two technical service positions slated for Baker Lake.
Getting to that, I am also asking, is decentralized going to happen a bit quicker than next year in this department?
Mr. Mrazek: From the Public Works side there are two positions slated with information technology as the support staff for Baker Lake.
That is my understanding according to the organizational charts.
To be honest with you I am not sure if these things will happen between now and the next summer.
Those positions are strictly depending on the decentralization of the other departments to the community, because those two positions will be supporting the network for other departments.
Besides that there will be, or there will have to be, a training period when we have the outsourcing period with a contractor to train a number of people for those positions.
I have just been involved in the Rankin situation when we had three potential Inuit employees who have Microsoft experience and who will be put on line, probably within the next couple of weeks.
As far as Baker I think we will probably have to wait a little while until decentralization is in progress.
Otherwise those positions will not be able to support anything at this point in time.
Mr. McLean: On that answer, I don't find it acceptable.
If we are going to put two positions in Baker Lake next year with Technical Services why doesn't the department identify a few Inuit graduates or people in existing positions, as has been done in the past they've transferred them to Rankin to take the technical training there and when the decentralization happens we have fully trained individuals, preferably Inuit, that can slide into the positions rather than wait.
There is a training component in it, I have been in the office, in Rankin Inlet at Public Works and Services there, and there's an abundance of staff there.
So I think by identifying and training a few unemployed Inuit people from Baker Lake that this would probably fast track your positions in Baker Lake.
Chairperson: Mr. Mrazek.  Mr. Mrazek: You are partially right.
The training plan for those supporting positions is being in the beginning of developing.
The reason for that is that we are working with the contractor to develop a training module for the decentralization plan for outsourcing the network in every community.
That's the reason for it, as I mentioned before, we don't expect the positions will be filled next week or whatever, but it will be filled as soon as physically possible.
At this time the clock is running could you please make your questions and comments concise and understandable?
Mr. Kattuk (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Chairperson.
I would like to ask this question in respect to petroleum products.
Because of the high cost of petroleum in the Inuit homelands does your department, have you looked at homeowners and hunters, those who go through a hard time in the winter, has your department considered subsidies for homeowners or hunters because of the high cost of petroleum.
Chairperson (interpretation): Ms. Thompson or Mr. Mrazek.
We will be reviewing the cost of fuel in the future, but I think the question is more directed to, I know EC & E, or housing has a program where the senior folks who own their own home can get subsidized for their fuel.
Sustainable Development would probably have something for subsidizing skidoo fuel.
But we would be reviewing the cost of fuel in the near future, so the members' are invited to put in their comments at that time.
Chairperson (interpretation): Is that all?
Mr. Tootoo could you make your question concise and understandable please?
Mr. Tootoo: Honourable members, Mr. Chairman, I am trying to think how to say it really quick.
Mr. Chairman I am wondering if the Minister or her staff can let us know if their department is responsible, or confirm if their department is responsible for providing all the capital delivery of Nunavut?
Hon. Manitok Thompson (interpretation): Yes we are.
In light of that I know that in some communities and again, going back to housing, not only in Baffin but in other regions there are communities that have been empowered to provide the capital delivery responsible to housing.