EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Total Operations and Maintenance, to be Voted. $3,180,000.
Chairman: We will move on to E-7. Branch Summary. Justice.
Registries and Court Services. Total Operations and Maintenance, to be Voted. $9,418,000. Do you agree?
Mr. Tapardjuk (interpretation): In regard to policing for 2011-14, can the minister refresh our memory? We, as MLAs, have fought hard for recruiting RCMP officers who can speak Inuktitut.
You also spoke about the national aboriginal policing services so that aboriginal communities can start to have their own police.
What I would like to know is at what stage this is at now.
Is it still being pursued? We now have the Inuit Language Protection Act and I wonder if it means that we will be able to recruit more Inuktitut-speaking officers.
Will the federal government be providing additional money to the Nunavut government?
I would like an update on that, Mr. Chairman.
It’s an important question.
In the Second Assembly, we were asking for Inuit special constables and yes, we initiated that in the Third Assembly.
They fund it internally. They started a pilot project and they are working with the Department of Justice. Initially the plan was to recruit five Inuit special constables and send them to the depot.
The efforts have been very successful to date. When they started, I think they had 35 applicants and through various interviews and screening processes, they got it down to approximately four or five.
For personal reasons, some of those individuals who were eligible and selected could not attend. There currently is one individual at the RCMP depot in Regina. I believe he is graduating in early April.
I would hope that he will be a success and a role model for future Nunavummiut interested in policing.
I don’t believe the RCMP is getting additional funding from the federal government for this, so they’re funding internally. We’re working with them through the RCMP summer student program and through youth academies.
In January, they had 60 youngsters from Nunavut who went down to the depot for a week to experience and see what it’s like.
I talked to one of those individuals and he is interested in pursuing a career in policing.
The RCMP has one or two of their Inuit members who will be participating in career days to encourage kids in high school that policing might be a career they might want to pursue in the future.
I don’t have any other names here, so we will go back to Branch Summary.
Chairman: We will move on to E-8. Justice. Branch Summary.
Corrections. Mr. Elliott.
I was wondering: in terms of the probation officers, is it four new positions that are coming up in your department?
Yes, four.
At this time, do you know which communities will be receiving those probation officers?
It will depend on the availability of housing and office space, but we do know that four communities require community corrections officers. Again, as I said, it will depend on the availability of housing and office space, and we’re working on that.
I was just going to say that we would love to have one in the High Arctic.
In speaking with my mayor in Arctic Bay, I know that there’s office space and that the hamlet is even willing to help with providing a hamlet house that they have.
If you could keep that in mind, it would be greatly appreciated.
In terms of corrections and the new correctional facility that’s opening up, I was just wondering: what type of programming will be offered?
I think it’s sort of alluding to what Mr. Tapardjuk was talking about.
Once we incarcerate somebody, what options are they given to be able to rehabilitate themselves and get back into the communities?
I thank Mr. Elliott for that good question.
Mr. Chairman, with your permission, if I may bring in a new witness who is the head of that section; he can provide some detailed information.
Chairman: Sergeant-at-Arms, can you bring in the new witness?
Mr. Peterson, could you introduce your new witness.
My new witness is J.P. Deroy. He’s the acting director of community corrections.
Go ahead, Mr. Deroy.
Mr. Deroy: On top of the other programs that we currently offer at BCC, including educational programs, land programs, cultural programs, counselling, and all of the variety of programs we have in other institutions, we will be recruiting a lot of resources from the communities.
So we have somebody who will be designated at the facility to canvass the community of Rankin Inlet and other areas to be able to offer programming directly from people from Rankin Inlet, basically inviting the community to assist in the rehabilitation of the offenders. So depending on the type of offenders we have, we will be matching these resources to the programs needed.
I think the facility is scheduled to open in September. Has there been much success in recruiting people and collecting ideas from the community in Rankin Inlet?
Mr. Chairman, just to be clear, I don’t believe the facility is going to be operational in September.
We’re hoping that it will be complete by September-October and operational later in this calendar year or perhaps early in 2012.
The plan right now is to recruit, I think, 44 individuals in advance and put them in some offices and housing in Rankin Inlet.
It’s going to be very difficult right now to hire a lot of staff because we need housing to hire.
Housing won’t be available, I believe, until some time in September, and then jobs will be offered, and then they will have somewhere to live and to bring their families, and so on and so fourth.
That confuses me a little because I thought part of what you said in your opening comments was that a big part of the budget is going towards supporting the opening and the PYs.
The increase in your budget is coming from the PYs, but if you’re not going to be hiring them until 2012, then that’s six months worth of extra PYs that you’re not going to be paying people.
I’m just wondering: are you anticipating having excess funding in your budget then?
That’s a possibility, but we have to budget for the entire year when we go to the main estimates. This would be base funding for the operation for this year and future years.
A lot of that funding will be used for training, paying for temporary housing and temporary office space until we get more permanent office space and housing.
In discussions that I’ve had with constituents who have been in BCC or outside of the territory for being incarcerated, when they come back, some of them have been involved with the land programs that are being offered.
They actually really enjoy and feel that they actually are receiving the training that they need or the ability to get their life back on track by doing the land programs.
I’m wondering: are you increasing the number of inmates who are able to go on these land trips or in the different land programs? I think there is one in Kimmirut, Cambridge Bay, and Gjoa Haven.
Mr. Chairman, I have encouraged communities and individuals in Nunavut, if they’re interested, to approach the department to open up outpost camps. Particularly in the Kitikmeot, the department has contacted an individual in Gjoa Haven and an individual in Kugluktuk, and they have not come forward with any interest.
With some of the events that happened last year with the overcrowding in BCC and now with the women’s healing facility opened, I think one of the things that was… .
I can’t remember whether it was a statement that you had made or a statement that was in the newspaper, but with the idea that they weren’t able to offer some of the programs offered for the inmates because there was no room to be able to do them, is there room now in BCC to provide programs for the inmates?
I believe we still have an overcrowding issue at the Baffin Correctional Centre, which does make it difficult to deliver all of the programs that we want to deliver to our inmates.
In terms of once the new facility in Rankin Inlet is opened up in 2012, how will you determine which inmates will be going to Rankin Inlet? Will they be brought up from Ontario or across from Yellowknife?
Rather than offer my explanation, I don’t deal with the process on a day-to-day basis.
I know there will be people who will be repatriated from the south and there will probably be some folks from the Kitikmeot.
It’s a logistical issue that requires a daily, hands-on movement of inmates and assignment, depending on their case management program. So I will ask J.P. Deroy if he would answer that question in more detail for Mr. Elliott.
Mr. Deroy.
Mr. Deroy: There are various factors deciding where an inmate would be placed. Upon admission, we do a full assessment on every inmate to determine the program needs and their institutional risk factor. Depending on the type of programming available in each institution, the inmates would then be matched as close as possible to the program in each facility.
Another factor would be based on the overcrowding of BCC as well as the willingness of other institutions to take our inmates. As an example, Ontario is reluctant to take offenders or inmates that require to be placed in protective custody as they have limited space for this purpose.
NWT will no longer take offenders with behavioural problems. This also leaves BCC with high-risk offenders like protective custody and mental health clients, basically.
Do we have capacity within our Baffin correctional facility to handle these behavioural problems that the Yellowknife correctional facility will not take?
Well, I guess the answer would be yes.
If other jurisdictions will not accept persons with behavioural problems, then we have to accommodate them in the Baffin Correctional Centre.
So do we have staff that are hired with these special skills to be able to provide programs and adequately support these inmates?
Mr. Chairman, all of the staff or most of the staff of the Baffin Correctional Centre are trained to work with offenders.
I was just wondering: does your department have a cost breakdown in terms of per day for inmates in different jurisdictions to house someone?
I guess what I’m trying to figure out is when the deputy minister or the assistant deputy minister was explaining the reasons why people would be brought to the Rankin Inlet facility, I don’t think the cost of housing an inmate in a different jurisdiction was mentioned. I’m wondering if that’s part of the ways that inmates would be decided in terms of transfer.
If it’s more expensive to house someone in Yellowknife, would they bring them to Nunavut to house them to save some money there and if it’s cheaper to have them in Ontario, would they leave them in Ontario?
Mr. Chairman, I think all of us in this room and all Nunavummiut would like to see all of our folks be in facilities of Nunavut.
That’s one of the reasons we’re building that facility and that’s one of the reasons we built the women’s facility.
I don’t think the determination is going to be coming down in dollars and cents; a lot of it will be tied to what kinds of programs are available to help offenders as well.
Depending on the case management profile, if we don’t offer certain programs in our facility, we may be able to help them by sending them to a facility in another jurisdiction.
Of course, we don’t want to just incarcerate people, and then they don’t receive the proper counselling and rehabilitation programs. We want to ensure that they receive that so that when they are released, they can reintegrate back into communities, work with the community justice committees and other individuals in the communities upon release.
So I don’t think it’s good that we come down with dollars and cents because we’re going to save $500 here where we should leave that person there.
There will be quite complex logistical arrangements to make sure that offenders are moved to different facilities where they get the proper counselling and rehabilitation programs.
Thank you for that answer because that’s what I was getting at.
I was hoping that it was more based around the inmates’ needs and the safety for them and programs for them not based around dollars and cents. I think they deserve more than that.
In terms of the Rankin Inlet facility, is everything… ? We just had Minister Curley in here with the Nunavut Housing Corporation, but in terms of getting those positions filled, is there proper and adequate housing available or staff housing available for all of the positions that are going to be going there?
I thank Mr. Elliott again for the question.
In September, the plan is when the housing is available that is being constructed by the Nunavut Housing Corporation, there won’t be an issue. Between now and then, we will have to find temporary housing to accommodate the individuals who we will be hiring.
In terms of Inuit employment currently in the corrections system, because there is the Baffin Correctional Centre and then there is the women’s healing facility, I think there are young offenders as well, how many Inuit are currently employed?
Mr. Chairman, we don’t have those figures with us right now. If Mr. Elliott is willing, we will be able to provide them to him at some point.
In terms of the training that the minister was talking about providing, I was curious to find out when the training is actually going to start. I’m assuming it’s training for some of the people who will be hired next year in 2012.
I thank Mr. Elliott again for his question.
Mr. Chairman, Mr. Deroy will take that question.
Mr. Deroy: Thank you.
In September, we will hire the bulk of the case workers for the facility, but prior to that, we’re going to hire basically or fill positions incrementally due to housing. In April-May, we’re looking at hiring the four managers of various positions.
We’re going to train these people basically in the job and orient them into our system. Following that, in June or July, we’re planning on hiring eight supervisors.
So the senior case workers and the supervisors, these four managers will help in training the supervisors and of course, they will be in our system, and then after that, basically we will have 12 people.
In September, these 12 people will help in training the bulk of the people and then they will be ready by January after that, the whole group, incrementally, basically, and depending on how many housing and temporary office space we can secure until then.
Again for these training positions that are going to be advertised in April, will these be jobs posted in the local papers so that everyone has access and emphasize that it’s a bit of a training position as well?
Mr. Deroy: The positions will be advertised through Rankin Inlet’s human resource officers and it will be advertised there.
Hopefully we will be able to hire everybody through Rankin Inlet.
Depending on their qualifications, they will be trained by our current training officers and all of the people who are currently trainers in our own organization.
If there was another individual across the territory that didn’t live in Rankin Inlet, they are not going to be able to access this training and the position.
I believe if individuals are elsewhere in Nunavut, they could apply for the jobs. One of the reason there’s housing with the positions is to enable people from elsewhere to apply for the jobs and transfer to Rankin Inlet.
The difficulty will be ensuring that there’s housing available for positions when the positions are staffed.
In the explanation that was given earlier, I thought that it was only going to be advertised in the human resources department in Rankin Inlet. If I have someone who is in Grise Fiord who wants to apply for this job, where do I tell them to contact in April?
I think this goes along with what other members have been saying about how come the smaller communities seem to get left out of training opportunities and opportunities for jobs and positions.
The way it sounds like it is set up right now and the way it was explained to me, and I might have misheard what was said, is that Rankin Inlet will stand to benefit from these jobs and the training opportunities. They’re already benefiting from the infrastructure in their community.
So if I can get an answer to that, it would be greatly appreciated.
I’ll just backtrack a little bit. There are going to be 45 positions in the facility and there are going to be 33 housing units that go along with the facility, so that would imply that positions are going to be available to people outside of Rankin Inlet.
I believe that the Rankin Inlet human resources, depending on what region it is, if it’s going to be in Cambridge Bay or Iqaluit or Rankin Inlet, will be engaged to put the ads in newspapers or however they do it.
I’m not the HR person.
Quite often I do read News/North and Nunatsiaq News, and I see human resources ads for employment positions in Nunavut and they always tell which region and which community.
So if there’s a person in Grise Fiord who is interested in applying for the job in Rankin Inlet at the correctional facility, I’m sure they will be given that opportunity.
Thank you for explaining that because the first time I heard it, it didn’t seem the way he explained it the second time.
So that’s great. I’ll just tell everyone to check the newspapers in April for the positions that are coming up.
With the success rate that we have through GN human resources, do you anticipate any problems with the rate of people being hired in terms of getting those positions filled to be able to get the facility opened?
Of course, we hope that the people in Nunavut choose the Government of Nunavut as their employer of choice.
We’re in a very competitive market nowadays for individuals; there are many opportunities out there for folks.
I’m sure we will have to work with career days and other opportunities to encourage people to choose a career in corrections.
It could be very rewarding work. As opposed to a local mine, they may choose to pursue corrections.
We don’t anticipate any problems, but I don’t want it put down and cast in stone that there are going to be no problems because there are always problems when it’s up to people to choose where they want to work.
We’re going to be very active in promoting the opportunities that are coming up in Rankin Inlet at this facility and we hope that people will apply for the positions that are available.
Mr. Elliott, your last question.
In terms of food services for the inmates in BCC, how will they be provided as well?
Is there going to be a contract for that or are you going to be training someone? I noticed there was an article in the paper about a culinary arts class going on in Cambridge Bay. Are they going to be trained locally or will it be just a contract?
I believe we will have our own kitchen. I’ll ask Mr. Deroy to provide the details with the planning he is working on for the facility.
Mr. Deroy: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I believe we’re talking about the Rankin Inlet facility, not BCC. We have our own kitchen there, a fairly sophisticated kitchen that’s fully equipped.
We will have our own cook and chef and we will do the ordering through sealift like we do at BCC every year and we will be purchasing a lot of local products as well every week.
I won’t be pushing my time limit that you have provided me, just so you know.
I have a fairly short question, actually two of them.
The first question is in regard to the Rankin Inlet facility that you just discussed. We are proud of the facility as it allows those who require help to receive help while they are incarcerated, and this is our expectation.
Some correctional facilities and jails have little chapels or they have a chaplain.
Will we be seeing that kind of thing in the Rankin Inlet facility?
Yes, there is a chapel at this facility.
Thank you for the information. We know the chapels and the priests provide a tremendous service to the inmates who need guidance.
My second question revolves around probation officers, as a person who is under a probation order from the courts has to go see designated probation officers.
In my constituency, my other community doesn’t have a probation officer at all. If a probation officer was available, there would be less people incarcerated because they cannot abide by the probation order due to not having a probation officer.
The end result is more inmates are sent to the correctional facility.
Why does that occur?
Why does it have to be set up in that manner?
I thank Mr. Tapardjuk for the first question.
We are working very diligently to provide probation services to all communities in Nunavut.
I believe we currently have services in 11 communities. If this budget is approved, we will have four more and we’re hoping to add four every year for a couple of more years after that so that social workers don’t have to provide that service.
Where there are no social workers or probation officers, I believe regional probation supervisors can make arrangements to provide those services, but the long-term plan over the next couple of years is to find probation officers to be placed in every community or in most communities in Nunavut.
Mr. Tapardjuk (interpretation): I unintentionally broke my statement that I would ask only two questions, but I’ll continue to ask my question nonetheless.
Is it true that if the community has no probation officer or if they don’t have a social worker in the community that can take on the probation orders, they have to incarcerate the probationer at the correctional centre? Do they really need to be incarcerated, and why is that?
I believe that if an individual is on probation in the communities on a probation order, if the person is adhering to the conditions of his probation or his condition orders, there should be no problem.
I believe there is some discretion at the community level.
If the RCMP were to pick a person up who has breached his probation, they could take that individual to a community justice committee and deal with it there. We don’t want people to go back to jail. If it’s a minor thing, they can deal with it at the local level.
Certainly that’s the intent. But if it’s a major issue, then the local RCMP, if a person is on a breech of probation, they likely would be. For example, if they’re not supposed to drink alcohol and obviously they’re caught drinking, that’s a serious breach of probation and they would likely be returned to jail.
We will go back to Justice. Branch Summary.
Corrections. Total Operations Maintenance, to be Voted. $30,502,000.
Chairman: We will move on to E-9. Branch Summary. Justice.
Total Operations Maintenance, to be Voted. $4,624,000. Do you agree?
Chairman: We will go back to E-3. Department Summary.
Justice. Detail of Expenditures. Total Operations Maintenance, to be Voted. $88,387,000.
I would like to thank the committee for asking some excellent questions. That’s what this process is all about. I hope we were able to answer questions.
If there are any unanswered questions or if you want any additional information over the next few months about any of our programs or the status of facilities, feel free to contact me and I’m available at any time.
I would like to thank my officials who have appeared today. Christine Bens, as I mentioned, this was her first time in the Committee of the Whole and I think it is J.P.’s first time as well. He did an excellent job.
It’s always good to get folks experienced like this.
I would like to thank our deputy minister as well and all of the folks back in the Department of Justice who worked so hard to put this business plan and main estimates together.
I would also like to thank the minister and staff for showing up to answer questions.
Could the Sergeant-at-Arms escort the minister and staff out, please.
Chairman (Mr. Tapardjuk) (interpretation): Thank you. Welcome.
Before we start, we will take a 5- to 10-minute break.
Once the bells start to ring, you will know that you are to return to the Chambers.
>>Committee recessed at 17:30 and resumed at 17:56
Thank you for returning to Committee of the Whole.
Perhaps Minister Peterson has opening comments on the Department of Finance.
Bill 01 – Appropriation (Operations & Maintenance) Act, 2011-2012 – Consideration in Committee – Finance
I am pleased to present the Department of Finance’s business plan and main estimates for 2011-12.