EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
I actually have one of those calendars in my constituency office and I make note of it on numerous occasions.
Is it a capability of the Nunavut Housing Corporation to show residents of public housing units what their actual energy costs are so they can see the ramifications of what costs are for their units and actually be able to identify cost-saving measures where they can measure to show how they are saving energy, water, any of the other expenses that are associated with housing.
As I stated earlier, I talked about the calendars to provide more help to the tenants in order for a home to be energy efficient. That’s why we had created the calendar.
Perhaps Ms. Kimball can provide a supplementary response, if you don’t mind, Mr. Chairman.
We do have software that tracks the usage per household. We don’t yet have the ability to produce that in a statement format for the tenants, but it is something we have identified that we want to do.
We have identified kind of an IT strategy to get there. We’re a few years away from that, but it is something that we are moving towards.
Following my list of names, next is Mr. Enook.
Good afternoon, hon. minister.
I would like to ask a short question to the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
First of all, let me ask about allocating units in the communities and also about the local housing organizations.
The housing needs survey that was done by the Nunavut Housing Corporation states that Pond Inlet was the third community. This was written in 2010. Pond Inlet was the third community where homeowners have to take in renters.
Also, at the time when the Nunavut government received funding, I think it was $100 million, and I was trying to request more units for Pond Inlet because the survey states that the community was the third community in all of Nunavut that the homeowners had to take in renters.
Could you elaborate further, hon. minister? Are you using the survey to allocate units at the community level?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would also like to thank the member for his question.
The issue that the member is speaking about, if I understood the member correctly, the funding was allocated to the Nunavut Housing Corporation, as the member stated, and the funding was utilized properly.
In regard to allocating units in communities by using that funding, we have a good policy and the communities have a good policy.
According to the most need, we set out the policy and that’s how the funding was used, with the use of the policy.
However, in regard to the member’s comment, I don’t want to give a wrong answer with respect to homeowners who have to receive renters.
Maybe because of our dialectal differences… . The member had stated that Pond Inlet was the third community that takes in tenants or homeowners take in renters. I just want the member to clarify that.
Maybe, Mr. Enook, you can rephrase your question.
Perhaps I stopped my time because I’m asking the same question.
Let me read it in English. Perhaps we can understand each other in English.
(interpretation ends) The report also indicated that Pond Inlet was one of three communities in Nunavut with the highest proportion of temporary residents without a home elsewhere.
(interpretation) That’s what I’m basing my question on. I believe you understand my question.
In regards to the survey that was done it states that Pond Inlet…. It seems that the survey was not used to allocate housing units to the communities. Why was that so, and which policy were you using?
I can understand him a lot better. Perhaps you have to keep talking in English.
Mr. Chairman, like I stated earlier on, using the distribution of public houses whether it be in Pond Inlet or any other community.
We looked at the distribution system that we use, but if I mislead the member in any way I would like to get Ms. Kimball to respond partly.
Chairman: Thank you. I will allow that.
The survey that the member is referring to was conducted in 2009-2010.
Subsequent to the timing of that survey, a number of housing units were constructed in Pond Inlet under the Nunavut Housing Trust as well as the $100 million that we previously received for Canada’s Economic Action Plan.
Of course, we had to update our numbers to re-look at which community had the greatest need. It was determined that the approach that would be the most equitable and fair across the communities would be wait list as a percentage of stock.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) With all due respect, Ms. Kimball, (interpretation ends) I do not agree with Ms. Kimball.
I will look into the questions that I want to ask a little bit better and then ask some more questions later on.
Continuing on to another question, I asked this question before with respect to the Nunavut local housing associations as a chairperson I stated that something the Nunavut Housing Corporation is usually bullying the local housing boards.
They want the local housing associations to do what Nunavut Housing Corporation wants them to do.
My question is: the local housing associations and Nunavut Housing Corporation… we want them to work together.
However, I realize I don’t know whether it was the hon. minister who responded to the question or whether it was one of his staff.
If the Nunavut Housing Corporation agrees with the local housing boards that they can go ahead and do what they have to do.
I remember the questions that the member was asking in this House.
With respect to part of the question that he is asking we have a policy in place, if the policies cannot be followed by the local housing organizations and the Nunavut Housing Corporation, it has to go the cabinet for approval before it becomes a policy.
That’s when it finally gets adhered to.
The minister stated that the cabinet has to approve the policy before it’s used. That, I understand.
I would like to ask a question: Does the local housing organization have to follow the policy provided by the Nunavut Housing Corporation?
Do they have to always watch their back to make sure if the policy was being followed that was approved by the cabinet? Do I understand that to be the case?
Mr. Chairman, the local housing organization is what the member is talking about. The LHO boards and the Nunavut Housing Corporation work together. The local housing organizations are a board on their own and elected.
They have to follow what the rules are. There is a management agreement in place between the Nunavut Housing Corporation and LHOs.
Do I understand that if the management agreement is not being followed? Are you saying that you’ll overrule their decisions?
That management agreement that in place between the LHOs and the Nunavut Housing Corporation, is fine.
Is the Nunavut Housing Corporation going to have the last decision?
If I understood him to say that, then the management agreement that is in place will be used to the best of their abilities between the LHOs and the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
If the management agreement is not being followed with respect to renovation of houses, and if there is a disagreement between the LHOs and the Nunavut Housing Corporation, we have to talk with them about what they’re job is supposed to be. If we don’t agree with each other, we can take over what the LHOs are doing.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Kuksuk.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): So the local housing offices know what to do.
Are you telling the local housing office boards in the communities that if there is a disagreement between the Nunavut Housing Corporation and the local housing office they can remove members from the local housing offices?
Chairman: Thank you. Mr. Kuksuk.
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, with respect to local housing office boards of directors have their own policies and they also can vote for people that can be in the boards. It is using that management agreement that we can work together.
I would like to make the member understand that the Nunavut Housing Corporation will not be controlling the local housing boards. They have their own policy. We have to follow the management agreement.
So long as they are going by the management agreement, the local housing office board of directors should work closely together with the Nunavut Housing Corporation. I hope I was understandable.
If you can respond to me properly I can really understand you so perhaps it would be better, and we can understand each other, that the Nunavut Housing Corporation can, through management agreement, can distribute housing in the community.
Hon George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Those questions are the same that you are asking but I am sorry if you are misunderstanding me.
We have an agreement in place between the local housing boards and the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
As long as they go by the rules that are in the management agreement, the Nunavut Housing Corporation cannot stop what the board is doing unless we know that they are breaking a policy or the agreement that is in place… . If the local housing offices are not doing what they are supposed to be doing under the agreement then we can take over.
Otherwise, we follow the management agreement.
I’m just trying to help the minister out.
What I want him to know because they have different understandings of what is expected of them and I am just trying to represent my community.
I think I finally understand about the management agreement that if the management agreement is not followed then they would take over.
Who would say, who has the say that the local housing boards are not following the management agreements?
To make sure that I understand properly, and if he doesn’t understand me properly, I would like to have the interim president respond to the member’s question.
If the LHO board is not in compliance with a cabinet-approved policy, we would usually advise the board of our concerns and have the dialogue back and forth. Generally, when we bring forward our concerns, the LHOs will, on their own, make a change to their decisions. If the matter is really significant, a really serious breach of policy, then NHC staff can raise it to the minister.
There is an article in the management agreement to place the board either on probation or on suspension, and we reserve that for really serious issues. We’ve had some serious financial issues where we’ve had to step in a put a board on suspension in order to make sure that we secure our assets.
That’s very, very rare that we would take it to that degree.
Most of the time, we’re able to work with the LHO and simply point out the cabinet approved policy and where we have concerns with a decision was made, and usually, we able to work together.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Thank you. I guess I will not be answered.
I asked about, (interpretation ends) according to who, when does the Nunavut Housing Corporation take over? Who decides if the agreements are not being adhered to, and when do they decide to take over?
As Ms. Kimball just stated clearly, if all other avenues in dealing with the issue of the Nunavut Housing Corporation and the LHOs does not work, according to the stated management agreement, then the Nunavut Housing Corporation minister would be obliged to follow the procedures set out by cabinet in resolving the issue.
Chairman: Thank you. (interpretation) Let me remind that we are at department summary. Nunavut Housing Corporation. L-3.
If the local housing organizations needed to be removed, would the Nunavut Housing Corporation then determine that the local housing organization boards needed to be replaced? Or would the Nunavut Housing Corporation officials go to them and say, “”You guys aren’t dong your job. Therefore you need to be removed.”
Would the minister go and do something like that?
If a situation like this should arise, let me see if I can phrase it in a better way.
If, for cause, the local housing organization boards needed to be replaced, then there would certainly be at least three months where the disagreement is about could be revisited.
If local housing boards would be suspended for a cause according to the policy and according to the law, as stated by cabinet, then they could be reinstated after three months if the situation has been resolved.
Sometimes it’s unclear and I won’t be stating a specific community.
Perhaps there is a situation in community in Nunavut where housing corporation officials have come into a community and then begin to bully and boss local housing associations.
However, even though you have stated that there was never a case, I have heard cases like that.
For example, last year, your department caused a policy to appear before the Legislative Assembly where it stated that certain protocols needed to be carried in terms of when local housing associations can or should not be consulting with the housing corporation.
That was why I stated that.
When will the housing corporation be holding workshops with the local housing boards? Do you have local housing boards so that they could understand that there are protocols in place everywhere and that they can’t just be… ?
In terms of training and so on that needs to be taught through workshops in relation to new board members who are selected by their community to sit on local housing boards, if the managers could identify the needs for things of this nature, there are various training workshops that could be undertaken by the housing corporation, whether it’s to housing managers or finance officers or board manuals.
The moves could be initiated through regional offices and so on. There are protocols in place that can cause these things to take place. I think that is the hon. member’s question and if that is the case, then that is what the housing corporation does and can do.
The minister stated that he can say “yes.” Do new housing board members need to be trained every time there’s a new board elected?
In the event that they request information and for workshops for housing corporation officials to come and talk to them about management agreements and protocols and the reasoning behind them… .
Yes, I agree wholeheartedly about local workshops that could be initiated with the new board members in the community in terms of talking about all the laws, as stated by the government and cabinet, what exists in the law, management agreements, and all of these other various things.
Let me then just ask and there have been cases where workshops have been held.
Mr. Kuksuk
This has always been a policy, I think, by our predecessors.
Whether they are hamlets and all other various boards they go through protocols and workshops like this.
I think our predecessors do that and we will do that in the same way that they did.
On page NHC-8 in your business plan, you state there that you have completed a comprehensive organizational structure review, and then for 2014-15, it states “Implement approved recommendations of the result of the comprehensive organizational structure review.”
Can the minister give us an update on structure review?
I ask that because seven positions were taken from Arviat and they were not replaced. Does the minister have plans to rob more PYs from my community?
At the present time, in relation to this question it has not been approved by cabinet yet the reorganization plan, that is.
Will the minister have a public announcement once this reorganization has been approved by cabinet?
Once the reorganization plan has been approved… I don’t see any reason why I would say no to such a thing like an announcement announcing approval by cabinet of something like this.
I would like people to remind you that we’re on Department Summary. Nunavut Housing Corporation. L-3.
The reason I ask that is going to implement it that means it is non-debatable and whatever they decide will go ahead as they plan with no input from committee members?
In terms of implementing the process of implementing the reorganization, if Ms. Kimball could answer that if you don’t mind, Mr. Chairman, that is.
In regards to the overview, obviously if we’re going to be adding positions it is going to have a financial impact and that financial impact would flow through to the House for approval by all of the members.
I ask the minister then, as long as there’s no financial implication, like if you’re taking jobs from one community and probably putting them here in Iqaluit, that’s okay.
In reference to the question framed in this manner, it could not be the case.
I think it would be simplistic if we answer yes or no to that, for example, yes, it can be done, taking employees from one place and putting them in another place.
Just moving them around at any director’s or minister’s whim, I think, is inappropriate because there are various regulations, policies, and protocols that need to be followed. Therefore, I don’t think anything like this could be done.
They would need to go through cabinet and cabinet can’t, but needed to deal with it.
If my answer is inappropriate, in the event that it could be, then I will ask Ms. Kimball to provide clarification in a more technical manner, if you don’t mind.
At this point, what we are proposing does not involve reducing the number of staff in any of our decentralized communities.
Thank you very much for the assurance. We will go on to other stuff now.
The homeownership policy was talked about and the minister did state that it’s under review.
One of the recurring themes is that the threshold income is too low.
Can the minister give us a date of when this review will be done and a new or revised policy would be ready?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the member for that question.
Mr. Chairman, while this is being reviewed, I don’t want to guess and I can’t really answer that because the work has not been completed.
If the minister can’t give us a date of when the review is done, I would think that a prudent manager would, once they start a review of any program of any department, have a set date of when they want the results.
If a program is being reviewed, there should be a timeline. Otherwise, we can just say that a program is under review for the whole duration of our term.
Is there any set date for the completion of the review?
Chairman (Mr. Enook)(interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Savikataaq.
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I again thank the member for that question.
Many things can be reviewed and this is one of the things that need to be reviewed. Private homeownership is one of those things that are under review.
I want to respond to you properly, but I would have to guess and I don’t want to guess. All I can say is that it’s still under review.
It’s obvious that this program is going to be under review for an extended period.
I guess nothing is changing in the near future, so I’ll just leave that subject here.
Another different topic is the new rent scale.
It is in effect now.
I don’t know what you call it, the particulars, I guess. Can the minister give us a rough idea… ?
Using his figures here, it states that if a household income is making over $97,200, they will pay up to the maximum rent. I know there is a formula.
Can the minister tell us what that maximum rent would be if the household passes $97,200 and they have three kids, if kids are factored in?
We look at how much that person or people are making. They would first look at the salary that the household is making.
Mr. Chairman, hold on, I don’t want to keep you waiting. I’m looking at the same time.
I know my deputy minister can respond to that properly if you don’t mind.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you. (interpretation ends) Ms. Kimball.
The rent scale is actually based on the income of the two primary tenants. We do not factor in a deduction for children; however we do factor in a deduction for overcrowding.
We calculate the number of bedrooms required based on the national occupancy standard and compare that to how many bedrooms they have. For every bedroom short, they do get a credit on their rent.
A family earning with two primaries that make a total of $97,000 the calculated rent would be about 20 percent of their income at $1,600, $1,604 to be precise.
In terms of maximum rent, we have made it equivalent to the staff housing rate for the same sized unit. If that family was in a two-bedroom unit, the maximum rent for a two-bedroom unit in the territory is $1,466. In this case, if they were in a 2-bedroom unit their maximum would be $1,466.
A three-bedroom maximum is $1,792. So if they were in a three-bedroom, they would only pay $1,604.
Mr. Savikataaq: Thank you for that clear response.
On another matter, we know that the government is the biggest economy in Nunavut in terms of staff being hired and construction.
The housing corporation’s new tendering process calls for supply, ship, and erect. I think most of us know why it turned out to be the way it is right now.
What I ask is if there’s anything being done to help the local small contractors in town that cannot bid on these huge mega contracts that are supply, ship and erect because most of the houses are also five-plexes? In supply, ship and erect you have to buy the materials, you have to ship it, and you have to get it to the community.
You need lots of money for that.
Most small construction companies in the smaller communities just don’t have access to that kind of funding.
Is there anything being done to try and help these small contractors or to help local people get employment because most mega-companies that get these contracts bring in their own workers?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for that question.
Mr. Chairman, for the larger units, the contracts have a ship and supply clause in it.
If a company is going to tender for one of those contracts, when they would need to have good finances available and be very proficient, because these things are very expensive, if they’re going to try and ship, supply and erect.
If the companies are not able to ship, supply, and erect because they generally don’t have that much cash available because they are a smaller company, it’s impossible for them to get that much cash.
Mr. Chairman, because of those smaller companies and our efforts to support them, we get the larger contractors.
The larger contractors are hired and the smaller company is told that they can become a sub-contractor for the larger contractor.
We try to encourage partnerships like that so that the smaller construction companies can also benefit and be part of the development in the community.
That is how smaller companies can get involved in larger contracts if they can’t get them on their own. We really want to support the smaller companies. We would like them to work together like that in the communities.
We always want to see smaller contracts be given out to smaller companies, like for the renovation of houses. The local housing authority could bring in the material and the smaller construction companies can do the labour aspect of it. That’s how the smaller businesses can be made to become involved.
That is what we support.
That’s what we have tried to support within the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
The minister stated that he encourages the smaller companies to work the larger companies.
Is there anything in the contract, or does someone from the Nunavut Housing Corporation talk to the successful bidders?
Can the minister just explain a bit on how they support these smaller contractors who get work from the larger contractors?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In regard to the larger contractors having to use the smaller contractors, and for smaller companies to work with the larger companies when they can’t get the contracts on their own, there are many guidelines and policies that we have to consider: there is the NNI Policy, as well.
We have to really apply that to the contractors.
For contractors that are going to be working in the communities, for example, larger companies have to come into the communities, and then we have to really apply the NNI Policy and make sure we adhere to it, as well as make sure the housing association and contractors are adhering to the NNI Policy.
That’s how we can look at the larger companies that come and do contract work up here.