EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Mr. Puqiqnak (interpretation): Thank you for your response but the reason I'm asking this question, is there something that the minister can do to make the establishment of these credit unions or financial institutions in smaller communities easier.
Speaker: I don't hear a question, but if you'd like to respond, Minister of Finance, Mr. Ng.
Mr. Speaker, I am also aware that, I believe it's the Arctic Coop is revisiting the possibilities of establishing some kind of financial co-operatives to provide some services as a pilot project to test that out.
They may be seeking some Government of Nunavut assistance in that regard but to date we haven't seen anything on paper.
We're just aware that there might be a possibility of that happening.
If that were the case, we'd have to evaluate it and see what we can do to possibly assist them.
Question 73 - 1(3): Deficits of Health Boards
I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Finance.
I have another question in regards to the Health Board deficits.
I hear three things now following the responses you have made.
The first response you made was that we might not inherit the deficits and the next one I heard is that once there is a dissolution of these boards we would inherit the deficit and now I hear that FMB has not looked into this issue.
Are you just responding to our questions without reviewing it further or doing a review on it.
I wish that you would give me a direct response to the question I have been asking you about the Health Boards' deficits.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Mr. Chairman, I'll try to be as direct as I can.
I believe I said yesterday and I'll confirm today that yes on April 1st, or March 31st, whenever the actual dissolution date of the Health Boards is, the Government of Nunavut, Department of Health, will assume the ongoing deficits that are carried over from the Health Boards as we are taking over their assets and liabilities.
What we're doing now, as I indicated yesterday in respect to the current year funding for our Health Boards, is working with the Department of Health in trying to analyze and make some recommendations to the Financial Management Board on how to address the current year's needs for funding for the boards, recognizing that they may not have sufficient funds to get them through this fiscal year.
Speaker: Thank you Minister of Finance.
Item 8, Returns to written questions.
Returns to written questions.
Item 9, Replies to opening address, replies to opening address, Item 10, Petitions.
Item 10: Petitions.
Petition 05 - 1(3): Opposition to Time Zone Change
Clerk: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
In accordance with rule 43(1), I am tabling a petition filed with me on behalf of a member.
Mr. Speaker, the petition is Change in the Time Zone and it contains 44 signatures from the residents of Nanisivik.
They request that the government of Nunavut rescind their decision on the time zone.
Item 11, Reports of Standing and Special Committees. Reports of Standing and Special Committees.
Bill 4 - An Act to Amend the Legal Services Act
Mr. Speaker, I have two Bills to report to the House today.
Mr. Speaker, I wish to report that Bill 4, an Act to amend the Legal Services Act has been reviewed by the Standing Committee on Community Empowerment and Sustainable Development and that the Bill is ready for consideration in the Committee of the Whole.
Mr. Speaker, I seek consent to waive rule 68 (5) and have bill 4 moved to Committee of the Whole for today.
Speaker (interpretation): Thank you Mr. O'Brien. (interpretation ends) The member is seeking consent to waive rule 68 (5) to move Bill 1 to Committee of the Whole for today.
Do we have nays?
We have no nays.
Mr. O'Brien, you have unanimous consent to deal with bill 4 in Committee of the Whole today.
Bill 3 - An Act to Amend the Interpretation Act
Mr. Speaker, the second bill I wish to present is Bill 3, An Act to Amend the Interpretation Act.
It has been reviewed by the Standing Committee on Community Empowerment and Sustainable Development, and although not all members of the committee are in support of the bill, we wish to report that it is ready for consideration in the Committee of the Whole at the appropriate time.
Asking for consent from the house.
We'll put that on our agenda so we can deal with it on Friday.
I wish to report that Bill 1, Loan Authorization Act 1999/2000, has been reviewed by the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Services and that the bill is ready for consideration in the Committee of the Whole.
Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to waive rule 68 (5) and have bill 1 moved into Committee of the Whole for today.
Speaker (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Akesuk. (interpretation ends) The member is seeking unanimous consent to waive rule 68 (5) and move bill 1 into Committee of the Whole for today.
Mr. Akesuk you have unanimous consent.
Bill 6 - An Act to Amend the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act
Hon. Kelvin Ng: I move seconded by the Honourable Member from Pangnirtung, Bill 6 - An Act to Amend the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act be read for the first time.
To the motion. Question has been called.
First Reading of Bills. Item 18, Second Reading of Bills.
Mr. Speaker, I seek consent to give second reading to bill 6 today.
Speaker: The Minister is seeking consent to deal with the second reading of bill 6.
Do you have any nays?
Minister you have consent.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Honourable Members.
Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Pangnirtung, that Bill 6 - An Act to Amend the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act be read for the second time.
Mr. Speaker, the GNWT passed the Access to Information and Protection to Privacy Act in 1994.
The Act came into force on December 31, 1996.
The Act was then inherited by the Nunavut Government on April 1st of this year.
When the GNWT passed this Act in 1994, they included a provision under Section 4 which made privacy clauses in other Acts prevail over the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act until December 31st 1999. On December 31st of this year, Section 4, Clause 1 ends and Section 4, Clause 2 comes into effect.
Clause 2 states that the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act will prevail over all other Acts unless specific amendments are made to state otherwise. The GNWT took three years to determine which Acts require changes to the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act.
This fall they passed an Act to amend the Act which amended 10 separate pieces of legislation.
Mr. Speaker, the Government of Nunavut feels strongly that this assembly should not just automatically copy what was done in the Government of Northwest Territories.
We believe that this Assembly and Nunavut's Access and Privacy Commissioner should be involved in the process of determining what Acts should prevail over the ATIP Act and which should not.
Mr. Speaker, unfortunately as the Act is now written, these decisions must be made and amendments enacted before December 31st , 1999.
Bill 6 will extend the December 31st deadline by one year.
Mr. Speaker, it's for these reasons that our Government is asking this Assembly to pass Bill 6, an Act to amend the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act in this session.
To the principles of the bill.
Bill 6 has had second reading and accordingly stands referred to the Standing Committee.
Item 19, Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters: Bill 1, Loan Authorization Act 1999/2000; Bill 5, Supplementary Appropriation Act # 1, 1999/2000; Bill 4 an Act to Amend the Legal Services Act; Minister's Statement 22-1-(3), with Mr. Irqittuq in the chair.
(interpretation): At this time I would like to ask the House if you would like to take a brief break for 20 minutes before we go into Committee of the Whole.
We're having technical difficulties and since we opened the House officially we have yet to use the Members' Lounge.
It is now available for your use.
You can go through here and proceed over to the Members' Lounge for coffee. 20 minutes.
>>Short recess
Chairperson (Mr. Irqittuq) (interpretation): What is the wish of the committee?
Mr. Akesuk (interpretation): We wish to consider the bill as our committee has dealt with it. I would like the minister and his staff to sit at the witness table.
Chairperson (interpretation): I apologize I wasn't using my receiver, can you please repeat yourself Mr. Akesuk.
The Government Operations committee dealt with this bill and recommended that we proceed with consideration of the bill in Committee of the Whole and have the minister and his officials go to the witness table.
Perhaps Minister Ng would like to go to the witness table or would you prefer to sit on your seat there?
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Perhaps I'll just give the opening comments and then move to the witness table and bring forward the witnesses that are appropriate.
Chairperson (interpretation):Go ahead Minister Ng.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Mr. Chairman, the purpose of the Loan Authorization Act is to facilitate lending to municipalities.
It will benefit municipalities which may not have the ability to borrow from commercial lenders.
The Loan Authorization Act sets the upper limit for municipal loans for the 1999/2000 fiscal year at 10 million dollars.
To date we have committed 5.2 million dollars to two municipalities; Iqaluit $5 million dollars for the construction of a new sub-division and Clyde River $200 thousand dollars to meet on-going commitments until the fiscal review of that community is completed.
Mr. Chairman, the government is requesting a loan limit of $10 million dollars to ensure that we may be able to meet the needs that may arise in other municipalities.
If requirements do not materialize loans will not be made.
Loans are advanced only after careful scrutiny by the Departments of Community Governments & Transportation and Finance and Administration.
Only applications from mayors are recommended to the Minister of Finance and Administration for approval.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Minister Ng. Are you in agreement.
Just so you know, Mr. Akesuk recommended that the Minister and his officials go to the witness table.
Minister Ng would you introduce your officials please.
To my right is Mr. Bob Vardy, Deputy Minister of Finance and Administration, to my left is Mr. Roger Perchard, Director, Expenditure Management, Department of Finance and Administration.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Ng. Bill 1, we'll deal with Bill 1.
It is in your white binder. In the first tab in your white binder.
Perhaps the Minister would like to make his opening comments.
I apologize, the Minister's opening comments are done and we are on general comments.
I have a question if that's ok.
The reason I want to ask this question is that you say you have lent to a couple of municipalities, do the municipalities themselves have to ask for the loan, or can individuals or carvers get a loan through this act?
I would like you to clarify the Loan Authorization Act for me, Thank you.
Perhaps the Minister can re-phrase his opening remarks.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Mr. Chairman this Loan Authorization Act is specific, it's only to allow the government to lend to municipalities not to direct individuals or businesses under this act.
At least now I understand.
Chairman (interpretation): Mr. Iqaqrialu.
It states here that you have made a loan to Clyde River to meet on-going commitments and here in the Inuktitut translation it says for the construction of a new sub-division.
When you were reading your presentation you stated it was to meet on-going commitments until the fiscal review of that community is completed.
So could you elaborate on that because in the translations in Inuktitut it states otherwise.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Mr. Chairman there are two items where we indicated that commitments had been made; 5 million dollars was for the Town of Iqaluit for the creation of a new sub-division; 200 thousand was for Clyde River for cash to meet on-going commitments.
Even though I read the Inuktitut version of it, it does not state a new sub-division it only states there is a loan for 200 thousand dollars to Clyde River until a fiscal review of that community is completed.
It's states that in Inuktitut, I don’t see any new sub-division.
Chairperson (interpretation): James, when we were listening to the interpreters it said Iqaluit for the construction of new sub-division. There's a misunderstanding here now.
The next speaker is Mr. Nutarak.
A question to the Minister of Finance.
You have already committed funds of 5.2 million dollars and we are trying to put a cap of 10 million dollars so that it won't go beyond 10 million on March 31, 2000. 5.2 million dollars, is that the remaining money, have you already committed the remaining money?
Chairperson (interpretation):Thank you Mr. Nutarak.
I have to apologize for the Inuktitut document here.
For the construction of a new sub-division, Mr. Iqaqrialu had a question on that because of the Inuktitut document.
Mr. Iqaqrialu just wanted to make a point because the translation on the document is missing.
If you understand now we'll get to Mr. Nutarak's question.
Perhaps the Minister can respond.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: I apologize if there is a misunderstanding as a result of the translation, but like I indicated in my comments that I think that it is quite clear that the sub-division proceeds loan commitments was for the Town of Iqaluit and the $200 thousand dollars is for on-going commitments for Clyde River.
In respect to Mr. Nutarak's question.
This Loan Authorization Act sets a ceiling of 10 million dollars as a maximum amount that Government of Nunavut could lend at any given time in total for this current fiscal year of 1999/2000 to municipalities.
As I indicated in my opening statement if there is no need then the money won't be lent.
It's based on specific requests that may come from municipalities and it goes through a formal review process of a committee of officials before it's recommended whether or not to loan funds to municipalities.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Ng. Mr. Nutarak.
Sometimes I can hardly see my button here.
The remaining 4.8 is left over from the 10 million dollars? Is the remaining money, the 10 thousand 4.8 million dollars already committed prior to March 31?
No it isn't, sorry, 200 thousand dollars of that 4.8 million dollars is committed the rest isn't.
Chairperson (interpretation): Are you finished.
Just a few comments Mr. Minister.
The ten million dollar ceiling that your department has placed on this Loan Authorization Act, can you tell the members for example, the last year of the NWT, what the amount was that they stipulated and put forward in reference to this Loan Authorization Act.
I can't, I don't have the information in respect to what their ceiling amount was, the GNWT ceiling on their Loan Authorization Act.
I can tell you the amounts they advanced last year; they advanced 1 million dollars in all to municipalities under their loans.
And I can also use an example of '95/96 where they advanced 9.1 million dollars, so it fluctuates in different years depending on the needs of municipalities at any given time.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Ng. Mr. O'Brien.
Mr. Chairman given our tight financial situation or our almost embarrassing financial situation here in Nunavut with the health care and education and housing and so on.
How can the Minister justify expending ten million dollars for these various projects given the financial bind that we find ourselves in.
Mr. Chairman for the record, first of all this isn't a grant or contribution, this is a loan authorization. The money has to come back to the Government of Nunavut.
It's to assist municipalities because of various reasons for their financial needs they may not be able to access commercial lending for whatever circumstance that the application would come forward from municipalities.
Mr. Chairman what is the time-line or the time-frame for these, for example in Iqaluit there's 5 million dollars committed.
What is the time-frame for this money to be returned to the Government of Nunavut.
Perhaps the Minister would like to respond.
Mr. Chairman each loan application includes a repayment schedule that is worked out based on negotiations with the municipality and the recommendations that come from the official that screened each of the applications.
In this case it is my understanding, because it is a land debenture using the Town of Iqaluit scenario, it's generally because of their capital projects with long repayment periods, generally a 20 year time-frame for repayment.
And one has to remember that these are interest-bearing loans as well because it is not interest free. By and large when the capital projects are completed they’re flexible enough that they can advance payments and repay it outside of the minimum terms outlined for repayment.
Mr. O'Brien: I just find it difficult to comprehend that we can't seem to find money for health and in particular housing, where we have overcrowding and 700-800 people on a waiting list for homes.
But we can find 10 million dollars to loan out and it may not be for the 20 twenty years but I'm sure it will be at least 10 years.
I'm just not sure this is the best use of our money given the fact that we're in a bind financially and this is not a slight on Iqaluit or anybody else.
I just think that our money could be better spent at this time.
If we were in a flush situation where there was a lot of money and we were well established, I could see it.
But I do have difficulty with this and my question would be how is the minister going to allocate the second 5 million dollars?
If he could give some guidelines on how the projects will be selected and whether the regular members will have any input into this selection process?
Chairperson (interpretation): Minister.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to reiterate, this isn't an expenditure, this is a loan that the government is putting out.
There is an big distinction between giving out money like a grant or contribution versus lending out money to the municipalities.
Mr. Chairman, I'm trying to stay away from the broader issue of Government of Nunavut financing based on the member trying to expound on health needs.
I think we've recognized that and I've said in the House previously that we're trying to rectify that situation by putting together first of all an analysis of what the exact needs are and bringing forward a plan of action to correct that through the Financial Management Board.
He also knows that the Minister of Housing through the Task Force is quite actively trying to find some possible solutions, make some recommendations on how to proceed in the specific area of housing.
Going back to the merits of this bill, which is what we're debating, Mr. Chairman, with all due respect, the Loan Authorization Act, I would say on his question about what allocation would take place, possible allocations for the remaining 4.6 million that's uncommitted at this stage.
Again, I would say that it has to go through a screening process of officials.
There are representatives, specifically, it has to come forward from Community Government and Transportation which deals primarily with municipalities; Finance is involved obviously because of the analysis of the risk and repayment schedules.
There's criteria in respect to conformance with the Towns and Villages Act to authorize municipalities to borrow.
There's repayment terms that have to be specified.
There's assessment, as I indicated, on the repayment ability of the borrower and the security as well.
Those issues of security have to be looked at and taken into the evaluation and it has to be approved by debenture bylaws in certain circumstances and the ability of the municipality to provide repayment as well.
I have to say that on this specific issue, again trying to stay away from the specifics of the application because we're talking about the Authorization Act, not the Iqaluit Loan Act here Mr. Chairman, but the Honourable Member, because it is a significant amount keeps referring to it.
It was tied specifically to the land development needs of the Town of Iqaluit because it was growing at such a quick pace because of Iqaluit becoming the Capital.
They were in a crunch of not being able to secure reasonable private commercial lending to deal with trying to develop a subdivision to meet their housing needs because of the fact, we know, I think all members know in their personal situation of trying to find reasonable accommodation, that there's very limited accommodation here in the capital because of the growth that's taking place right now.
So land development is an issue that allows for more housing in the capital.
It allows more people because of more private development, it actually takes some of the pressure off some the Government of Nunavut needs for staff housing.
It takes some of the pressure off public housing as well, because some of the individuals that might get Government of Nunavut jobs might have the availability of private housing or to move out of public housing if they were to get new jobs as a result of all the economic activity that's taken place here.
Mr. O'Brien: Mr. Chairman, it's not my intent to agitate the minister.
These are serious questions and I have some concern with the logic behind the 10 million dollar ceiling itself and whether the money be spent in Iqaluit or Cambridge Bay, it really wouldn't make a difference to me.
To me the issue is that we have needs and you say it's not a grant or a freebee.
I understand that, but it's still 10 million real dollars that comes out of the pot of money. We have 10 million dollars to be divided up in three or four different areas but there's only one pot of money.
If it were 10 million dollars that is not in the pot for example, to spend on housing, and it's hard not to bring these different issues or areas into the fold but they're there, they exist. And again going back to my earlier comment, I feel that it could be better spent elsewhere. That money's going to be tied up for 10 or 15 or 20 years so it's money we can't spend.
You talk about the situation you brought up about Iqaluit and the need for the expansion of land development, there's certainly many communities that have that similar situation.
They certainly are not at the level of Iqaluit unfortunately but my point is I just feel that's a large sum of money to be taken out of the pot at this point in time when we're in such difficult financial state.
I question the rationale at this point in time.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: I think it's important to remember that this is available to all municipalities.
There have been in fact, past municipalities that have borrowed with the GNWT in respect directly to land development.
I know that for a fact and this a standard government procedure for our municipalities primarily because, except for the Town of Iqaluit, none of them are tax based and that restricts quite frankly some of their borrowing abilities from conventional commercial institutions because of not being tax based municipalities.
So Mr. Chairman, it could be for land based development, it could be for municipal needs because of deficits or financial difficulties that the municipality is encountering, such as Clyde River, but I think that the onus is on this government to support our municipalities needs in trying to assist them and that is what the intent of this legislation is Mr. Chairman.
I can say that if we were to have the money all lent out and there were additional needs for the Government of Nunavut, for whatever reasons and I won't get into the specifics again, the Government of Nunavut has significantly stronger borrowing powers than a smaller municipality so it more than offsets what may be out there in respect to loans to municipalities.
If we required some borrowing for the Government of Nunavut, certainly that can be done.
Mr. Chairman, my final comment and question would be, given the fact that this document, the Loan Authorization Act has not been passed, we're discussing it now, it also annoys me I guess, to hear that we've already committed 5 million dollars of it or 5.2 before it even being passed.