EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Houses are built from combustible material so it occurs from time to time, however, with respect to your question, we will always be suffering from shortages and that is obvious.
At this time, that is the only way to respond to your question, Mr. Rumbolt.
Chairman (Mr. Mikkungwak) (interpretation): Thank you very much, minister.
Can the minister indicate how much money would be required in order to repair all the fire damaged units throughout Nunavut, if they have that figure?
And that was a relevant question, however I must apologize as I understand your point but unfortunately I don’t have the figure memorized or in my head with respect to his question of how much funds are required to retrofit all fire damaged units.
If you don’t mind, Mr. Chairman, I would ask that my deputy to supplement my response with details on the member’s question.
Chairman: Thank you, Minister Kuksuk.
In addition to the minister’s response, Ms. Kimball.
At the time we put this binder together, we were showing about $4.6 million more than what we had in funding. Now, that’s before the $2.7 million that would get approved today or at this sitting. With that, it will leave a small balance remaining.
Again, we would be submitting our capital budgets for 2015-16. Our initial submission internally is due, I think, in early April. At that point, we would go for the balance of the funding.
Do we know how many actual units across Nunavut are presently sitting vacant because of fire damage?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Personally, I don’t have that figure with me so I apologize.
I would like that question answered if we had those figures available and that specific amount he asked for.
I would like to ask that Lori respond to the question raised by the member regarding the actual numbers. Do we have those figures?
Ms. Kimball: I’m just having a look at my notes here.
It looks like there were about 15 fires in 2013-14.
Of those fires that occurred in 2013-14, only two were significant enough that the units would have been taken offline.
There might be some older ones that are waiting for this funding and I don’t have that information with me.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you very much, Ms. Kimball.
Mr. Rumbolt: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On a different subject, your Heating Oil Replacement Program has been in place now for several years and quite a few people have taken advantage of it. Also, the Nunavut Housing Corporation has replaced pretty well all the tanks in their public housing stock.
I’ll use my community as an example. You probably have 180 to 200 units in our community, and now we have an abundance of used fuel tanks in our communities.
Does the Nunavut Housing Corporation have any plans to dispose of these used fuel tanks properly?
Hon. George Kuksuk: That’s a very good question, Mr. Rumbolt. (interpretation) I looked through my briefing notes but I didn’t see anything on the used oil tanks. (interpretation ends) I will ask Lori if we have a plan, if you will allow me to have Lori answer that question.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you very much, Minister Kuksuk. (interpretation ends) I will allow Ms. Kimball to answer.
As with all of our maintenance activities, we try to make sure that we’re complying with any environmental regulations related to those.
I don’t have the specifics with me, but I do know that we do ensure that we are in consultation with the Department of Environment, and make sure that if there are any environmental issues, that we are addressing those.
Just one last note on the fuel tanks, the biggest environmental issue we’re going to have is all these fuel tanks are going to end up in our landfills. These fuel tanks take up quite a bit of space.
Our waste disposal sites are already at capacity, in a lot of cases. I’m scared that that’s where they’re going to end up. I would like the department to get back to us with any plan of disposal that they may have.
Chairman (Mr. Enook): Thank you, Mr. Rumbolt.
I can’t find them in my briefing notes but the Housing Corporation will definitely have to look into the used fuel tanks.
Our landfills are just about at capacity.
We will look into the used fuel tanks and keep you updated.
Let me remind you that we are on L-3.
With the Down Payment Assistance program that you guys have, has all the dollars been expended in that program, to date?
Again, I would like to defer this question to Ms. Kimball, with your permission, Mr. Chairman.
As I mentioned before, we don’t actually allocate. We have the $4,616,000 in total funding for homeownership programs each year and we don’t set targets for the different programs.
We actually look at all the different applications that come in.
In 2012-13, we did spend $1.4 million on the Nunavut Downpayment Assistance Program.
So far this year, we have only spent $600,000, but our year-end has not closed yet, and our tracking shows that through approval, we have committed over $950,000 for the NDAP program for this year.
Within that program, there were some changes announced in July of 2012 to support the development of a private real estate market in Nunavut.
Have the changes to the Nunavut Downpayment Assistance Program increased the number of applications and approved applications, and how many new houses have been built using this program?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I also thank the member with my namesake.
I would ask that this question be responded to by Lori, at your discretion.
In 2013-14, we have actually received 64 applications, 46 of which were approved and 16 have been declined.
In 2012-13, we actually saw, for down-payment assistance, we had 58 applications and 22 approvals, 18 declined, and 25 were waitlisted.
The application volume seems to be fairly consistent.
This is a concern I have raised to the minister previously.
I’m unfamiliar with all the housing markets across Nunavut, but I am familiar with the housing market here in Iqaluit.
With the income threshold to be accepted into this program being capped at $125,000 per household, granted there are some additional amounts for dependants, having a house or purchasing a house and maintaining a house in Iqaluit with that income is setting people up for drastic failures.
While the intake may be there, I personally have had to deal with people who have been under this program in the past or some of the grandfathered programs that are going through foreclosure.
It pains me, Mr. Minister, to have to try and work with a family who have been trying to do everything right and they just don’t have the means to support this.
I seriously hope the minister will consider taking another look and I look forward another upcoming announcement from the minister with regard to this program. I would like a comment from the minister on that, please.
I also thank the member for his question; I meant his suggestion to me to consider the hardships families suffer through.
In looking at that matter, I concur with the member however, we will have to look into it further as a department or as the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
I agree with you George that the improvements should be looked at to provide better services. Perhaps further down the road in our future, we may be able to provide an answer to that question.
Just to switch gears a little bit here, under the Affordable Housing Framework announced in July of 2011, $1.4 billion was allocated across the country for 2011 through 2014.
With the $30 million that was announced this past fall by this government being provided $30 million, it was stated that it was through a supplementary agreement to this affordable housing agreement.
Can the minister answer whether this was a part of that original $1.4 billion nationally or was this a new agreement outside of that?
I also thank George, who shares my name.
It is in two parts. The houses were built with the money and there were two agreements and the other one was slightly amended.
The $100 million will be used for the construction of houses but I think you are asking a question on the national $1.
I don’t know how many billion that was and I do apologize, George, and I don’t know whether it is part of that money or if it is a new agreement.
Maybe I should refer this question to Lori.
The funding for CMHC, we have a three year agreement under the Investment and Affordable Housing Initiative with CMHC and that was providing separate funding which was $1,455,000 toward new construction every year, as a match-match.
The Government of Nunavut had to put in a matching amount to access that funding for three years, so what they did was; the first $30 million of the $100 million was done as a supplementary to that three year agreement which ended in 2014.
We are now doing a new agreement with CMHC for 2014-19 which will be a five-year extension of the $1,465,000 and then a supplement of that has been done for the $70 million to make up the total of the $100 million.
Not to begrudge the, I don’t want to say, generosity of the federal government because I still think we still have a long way to go, but out of the federal announcement of $1.4 billion, what you’re saying is that we got one percent of that?
I would like to thank him for that question.
I think he has a calculator head
but I don’t have one.
Again, I will refer this question to the person besides me.
Chairman: Ms. Kimball, you have the same calculator?
I don’t have a calculator but our funding is $1,455,000 per year for five years and I believe out of that.
I’m not sure if the $1.4 billion was related to the first three years or the five-year renewal. I can’t remember off the top of my head.
I’m sorry. Thank you.
Mr. Hickes: If I can help, the Affordable Housing Framework was scheduled under 2011 through 2014 as a $1.4 billion combined investment toward reducing the number of Canadians in housing needs, so my calculator doesn’t have to be too accurate to figure out $1.4 billion to $1.4 million. It’s a pretty easy calculation. Again, I appreciate the supplementary agreement is being done but I still have to question on how the message is getting across to the minister’s counterparts across the country on the real need for housing in Nunavut and having one percent of that money being spent in Nunavut just doesn’t seem realistic to me.
Was there a question in that, Mr. Hickes?
Hon. Minister, comment?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Yes, I do agree with you that this amount of money is not adequate for Nunavut.
I don’t know how I can phrase it properly, George, but we’ll just have to keep lobbying the federal government to try and meet the needs of the people of Nunavut.
I was trying to be careful on how I worded my comments and statements that I don’t offend the powers that be that have been somewhat generous in giving us housing dollars.
I think one of the arguments to help you with some of your counterparts is we don’t have trees here, we don’t have the manufacturing plants here, we don’t manufacture these materials to build houses in Nunavut. Those dollars go to your counterparts’ jurisdictions in southern Canada.
I really hope that you have an opportunity to emphasize the spin-off benefits to their jurisdictions by supporting us in our housing situation. That was just a comment.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Hickes. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Hickes.
Ms. Angnakak: Finally.
I do have some questions. In the very recent past, Nunavut Housing Corporation got into a difficult situation, really, when it came to building public housing units under the Nunavut Housing Trust fund.
The $100 million is going to be received by this government, you know, we have the agreement in place.
I am just wondering what kind of assurances or steps can you provide us today that the same cost overruns will not happen again?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): That is a very good question. I thank the member for her question.
In past the CMHC, even though I was not the minister at that time, I don’t want to see a lack of housing again.
We have put plans in place for that. We recognize that where we have made any mistakes and what we should do to correct that.
I’ll get Ms. Kimball to respond to it, if it’s okay with you, Mr. Chairman.
In fact, you want me to tell Ms. Kimball to answer the question.
One of the things that we did after the Nunavut Housing Trust and the other ones with Canada’s Economic Action Plan, the over-commitment of units, we identified a document called the NHT Lessons Learned. It really recapped a lot of the initiatives that were incorporated in those two construction activities that added to the cost.
Some of the ways we approached the construction activities that added to cost.
Our approach this time is much more simplified. We are going with supply, ship, and erect tendering methods so that we know the whole costs of the contract up front.
We are not splitting our materials and our labour tenders.
We’re also doing staggered tendering so we’re able to see what the bids are coming in like, and project the remaining bids, knowing the differences in cost.
We know that shipping varies by community.
Under Canada’s Economic Action Plan, for instance, the structural insulated panel units ranged from $30,000 for the material to be delivered to a community to $90,000, depending on the community it was shipped. Looking at the known cost differences by community, we’re able to take tenders that we’re receiving and extrapolate and project what we expect the tenders to be in other communities.
With the ship-supply-erect tendering, it also dramatically reduces change orders because the full construction package is put onto the contractor up front, so they are accountable for the whole piece.
Through those different methods, we have some risk mitigation strategies. We also have improved budgeting techniques, improved financial tracking, and appropriate staffing levels.
One of the first things we did when we received the news of the $100 million is we did come forward and made requests to make sure that we had appropriate bodies in place to have oversight over this whole process.
Your answer kind of leads me into my next question, actually, because I understand that the tenders to build public housing units under the $100 million have gone out.
I’m not sure if they’re back or not, but if they are, did they come back within budget or are you expecting them to come back within budget?
With respect to the $100 million fund allocated towards public housing units, it is allocated regionally and some funds have already been provided and further some tenders are still open but they will close at the end of this month.
Additionally, there will be further tenders opened in April, so at this time the NHC new units will be constructed at this summer and the construction will continue to next year. Those funds were already allocated based on the plans made to that purpose.
If I perchance answered your question, I believe the member asked if the (interpretation ends) budget (interpretation) contains that funding figures.
Are we on budget or are we over?
That is something I would ask Lori to respond to as I don’t want to err with my response. I ask that she be allowed to answer (interpretation ends) that part.
(interpretation) Thank you, again it is at the chairperson’s discretion. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
I didn’t get the English translation, so I may be repeating a little bit.
We did tender 128 units.
This past fall, we awarded 123 of the 128.
The only one we didn’t award is one five-plex in Whale Cove.
With changes to our design, we found that the price was reflecting some over-design issues that we had with the architect.
We have actually gone back to redesign the five-plex with the intent of bringing down the cost and making sure that we’re not over-designing or over-spec’ing some of the mechanical systems and different system needs.
We have 80 units out for tender right now, which consists entirely of ten-plexes, and that’s closing on March 20, and then we are going to be re-tendering those two five-plexes in April and closing those off as well.
The 123 units did come in within budget.
Actually, here in Iqaluit, it came in under budget and they had a second proposal option to go from 30 units to 33 units, and we were able to go with the 33 units within budget.
I’m just wondering too, just based upon your answer: what kind of feedback are you getting from contractors about the way that you’re doing your tenders now?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also thank the member for asking that question as it is an extremely good question.
We use various contractors, at least those contractors who submit bids on NHC tenders for the public housing.
It is usually larger companies, obviously, that submit bids.
In a small company in the community, there is a lot more money that a bigger company has to get equipment, and so on.
We have not really heard from anyone with respect to supply and erect using the SSE. You asked about feedback from my department.
We have not really heard anything negative.
Ms. Angnakak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) My next question is: to what extent are the local housing organizations involved in regard to the new public housing units that you’re building under this initiative?
I’ll get Ms. Kimball to respond to Ms. Angnakak’s question on whether we involve the local housing organizations with respect to construction, and so on.
If it’s okay with you, Mr. Chairman, I would like to get Ms. Kimball to respond to that question.
At the beginning when we first heard about the $100 million, we did arrange to have conversations with our district offices, who were in consultation with the LHOs in terms of the bedroom size and the need list that we had from each community and what type of structures we wanted to build.
At the same time, we have to weigh that against the architectural design costs to different designs in different communities, which create other challenges.
In one design, we actually got a price of over $800,000, plus a commission on every build is what they were looking for.
So making changes to design can quickly eat up the money that we want to build houses.
So in consultation with the LHOs, we determined that we were going with the ten-plex as the main design, which allows for eight two-bedroom units and two one-bedroom units.
We know that there is a backlog of one-bedroom unit demand, so this allows us to slowly address that.
As we go forward with the builds, it’s actually our district offices that are staffed up to oversee the contractors and monitor the construction activity.
We do, of course, involve our LHOs to make sure that their eye is on the ground as to what’s going on, as well as we will be flying our community development officers, who actually do the formal inspections and sign off for various stages of the progress payments.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Ms. Angnakak.
I’m just wondering from your answer if you had had any real opposition to the type of design that you are going to put into a community?
Yes, just a short response.
We haven’t had any major opposition at this time.
Ms. Angnakak: Okay, I’m going to switch gears.
Nunavut has a high population of young people, but also a growing elder population.
What is the Nunavut Housing Corporation doing at this present time to address the growing need to have adequate and relevant housing for elders, seeing that we heard yesterday that, within the government it takes about five years from the time it is identified as a priority to the actual time we see a building built.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Ms. Angnakak. Hon. Minister Kuksuk.
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That is a good question, as well, from the member.
The elders in Nunavut have to have adequate housing and they have to be cared for adequately because they are our elders.
They looked after us and now we have to look after them, so for that reason, we have a vision of what we want to do for them and there are various kinds that we talked about.
I will get Lori to respond to that question so she can answer it properly.
NHC’s construction timeline typically is in the same five year cycle but we are 100 percent dependant on whether or not funding arrives from the federal government.
If we look at just having the notice last year, we do plan to have all the materials in the communities this summer and complete the units by spring, sorry, summer of 2015.
With that being said, we have recently gone live with our new rent scale management software, so we can now pose some really interesting statistics in terms of people aged 50 to 59, so we can actually plan in advance now, so we have some great statistics that show us, some communities are actually…their elder population is going to increase by 172 percent in some cases.
So this is actually factoring into our planning and it actually has led in the 2015-16 lot acquisitions that we have proposed through the funding of the $10 million.
We’ve actually identified that we need a senior’s four-plex in Sanikiluaq, based on the senior’s demand from this new data, so we will be using this data as we plan the different structures in the different communities, going forward.
In saying that, what plans do you have for Iqaluit in regards to long-term elder care housing?
Chairman: Thank you, Ms. Angnakak. (interpretation ends) Hon. Minister.
I would also like to thank the member for her question.
In regards to the question and providing elders’ homes, in Iqaluit, the City of Iqaluit is responsible for the lots but only if they grant the lot for the building (interpretation ends) that would depend on the city, whether we get approved for land (interpretation) for the sites (interpretation ends) It depends on the city in regards to the land.
I’m just wondering if you have approached the city to talk about this issue, to see what they think about it.
Do they know that it’s up to them to come to you to request such a thing or have you sat down and spoken with them and said that this is the process we need from you?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): That’s a very good question, Mr. Chairman.
My deputy has been discussing this matter with the City of Iqaluit. I will ask Lori to respond.
Definitely, we’re not waiting for the city to offer us land. We have been approaching the city.
We do have some lots that we have, but zoning can be a factor in terms of what type of building they will allow.
We are trying to work with the city to address some of those challenges.
Ms. Angnakak: You spark my interest now.
So I understand that you have gone to the city, you have said, “We could build an elder facility. You need to identify land.”
And somehow there’s a bit of a resistance there about zoning and stuff.
I just want to be clear on this.
This is the same line of questioning, so I would like Lori to respond to it as well.
We do have some lots that we already own where there are some older, boarded-up units, and we had approached the city with some plans for those lots. However, that area is zoned in such a way that it would not allow the multiplex structure that we were looking at putting in.
If we’re going to build for seniors, we would like to build a multiplex to accommodate as many as we can. Obviously, the denser a structure we have the better cost per unit.
We are working with the city on those issues.
Ms. Angnakak: In regard to the same topic, can you give me an idea of a timeline of when you would probably come to a decision that “We’re going to build an elders’ facility in Iqaluit and this is what it’s going to look like.”?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you very much. If we can continue (interpretation ends) with Lori. (interpretation) Thank you.
At this point, we have put in our tentative plan for ten units in Iqaluit for this summer. If we’re not able to rectify the situation, we’re looking at an alternative plan of going with two seniors’ four-plexes instead.
Of course, we get fewer units when we reduce the size of a structure.
I can’t speak in terms of the timeline of when we’re going to hear back from the city.
My last question kind of touches on what we were just talking about.