EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
In addition, I would like to emphasize that we are trying to decrease the number of sole source contracts and if at all possible, we will be open to the public out there, not only the Department of Executive and Intergovernmental Affairs but also in the other Government of Nunavut departments.
I didn’t understand part of Mr. Elliott’s question.
For further clarity, if I use the example of the $61,920 sole source contract, as Mr. Weber stated, the contractor is paid a retainer.
For example, if you complete this portion, you will be paid so much and then another amount after a certain meeting of a deadline.
Is there a difference between them?
If it says “retainer” in English, maybe we will have to use a different word.
A contractor only gets paid after the completion of a project or program. There is a ceiling to the amount of money that a contractor can be paid.
Mr. Arvaluk (interpretation): Whether it is Aarluk or someone else, there is quite a number of contracts awarded called service contractors hired by the government.
Some of them are contracted for years.
Can they not be hired as employees? It appears that some are even given housing as they are contracted for very long periods of time.
Can they not be hired as employees or are you not at all able to find someone to fill those positions?
My question is: the money is spent for contracts as the expenses are already included within the contract, but if the contractor will be contracted for years, is it not cheaper to hire an employee?
How come you have contractors for long periods of time instead of hiring someone as an employee?
I am very pleased that it was brought up.
It is a firm that has been contracted for a long time.
We are currently looking at the contract to see if we can hire employees instead. We will only contract them until they complete their contract.
Once they have completed their contract, it will be the end of the contract.
I don’t see any other hands up.
This is going to be a completely different question.
Here we have contracts C1249 and C1486 in regard to media monitoring services that have been awarded to two contractors.
They provide media monitoring services to the government.
Is your department getting good value for the $338,350?
I believe they have been contracted for a long time.
Nowadays, as we are able to seek information immediately through the Internet, we are in the process of evaluating whether our employees could research information themselves as we can access these easily through the use of modern technology.
This is a good example of how we can lessen the amount of contracts that are awarded.
Mr. Arvaluk (interpretation): Yes, I understand exactly where you are coming from. The Premier obviously understands that we have too many sole source contracts.
I will just use contract C1182 as an example. Your department awarded a $25,000 sole source contract for catering services.
Why did your department not issue a public tender for this contract instead of sole sourcing this contract for the provision of catering services?
Looking at all of this information, as I stated earlier, we are trying to decrease the amount of sole source contracts and it is going to be one of our priorities in this government.
Aarluk Consulting’s current newsletter indicates that the company “recently began an exciting project with GN’s Department of Executive and Intergovernmental Affairs.
The project is a limited scope review of the Department which is incorporating the Government’s new Government Liaison positions that are to be created in every community, as well as the repatriation of the Corporate Services functions back into EIA from the Department of Finance.”
Why can’t your department perform this work itself?
I will have my Deputy Minister, Markus Weber, respond to the question.
I thank the member for that question; it’s a very timely question.
The reorganization of the department has become necessary, primarily to incorporate the government liaison officers, and the priority that has been put on getting that work done within this fiscal year.
Our department, unfortunately, has had considerable difficulty with staffing of senior positions over the last year. We do have a number of directors in place, but also a number of acting directors, and we will be relying on those people to complete the work that was begun by Aarluk.
Aarluk’s contract was conducted in a very short timeframe and we received the results from all of the interviews.
They independently interviewed our staff to get some details of how staff would envision the reorganization being pulled together. That information is now being used and the department itself will be preparing submissions to cabinet and to Financial Management Board as well to complete that reorganization, so it was a very limited scope review.
Why did your current business plan not inform MLAs that the department is considering the repatriation of the Corporate Services function back into EIA from the Department of Finance?
We have had issues with the Department of Finance and we have to constantly keep monitoring it.
When we come across issues and not catch them right away, it exacerbates the problem. We had a meeting to see if we can address this.
If Markus has anything to add, I would like him to supplement my answer, Mr. Chairman.
The repatriation of Corporate Services is about the internal functions, the human resource function, the financial processing function, contracting elements are there as well, assistance with contracting and procurement and with budget analysis, budget variance.
All of those functions were previously within the Department of EIA. They were transferred to the Department of Finance. We are currently studying whether we will transfer those back to the Department of Executive and Intergovernmental Affairs.
The business plan doesn’t normally get into those internal workings.
In addition to that, this is not a firm plan at this point; it is something that the department may be recommending to the Executive Council as something that we would like to do.
Was Aarluk Consulting awarded this contract through a competitive bidding process and if not, why not?
This was done through a standing offer, but I wouldn’t know how to say it properly in Inuktitut.
Perhaps I should say that it’s pre-approved.
Perhaps if we were to term it in Inuktitut, we would say “waiting to pounce.”
The government’s most recent annual report on leasing activities indicates that the government’s lease for the Commissioner of Nunavut’s residence in Iqaluit expires on March 31, 2020.
The annual value of this lease is $66,000. At the end of the 20-year lease period, the government would have paid $1.32 million.
Why doesn’t the government simply purchase the house?
That is the way it was set up, to lease or rent units for this government. It is a matter we can look into, especially to see if it would be more economical to purchase these facilities. This is a good question and we will need to research it further.
I know the Premier had mentioned that the intention of her department was to reduce the number of sole source contracts and she had also mentioned that it was up to the deputy minister to administer those sole source contracts.
In terms of contracts that are given out or requests for proposals, since CGS isn’t involved and I really want to understand this, so in your department, is it the deputy minister’s responsibility to put these advertisements in the newspapers and decide what can’t be done by different people within your department, not other people’s department but your department?
Who does the advertising for requests for proposals?
Who reads the tender documents or the documents for contracts and does the evaluation and stuff like that? Is that the deputy minister’s responsibility or are their people within your department who are paid to do that?
(interpretation ends) I think we got a briefing by CG&S that they do that, but if you want to confirm that, Mr. Weber.
The sole source specifically that the member referenced is the responsibility of the deputy ministers. A sole source can be entered into if the deputy minister of the line department authorizes it.
The actual process of contracting is conducted by the Department of Community and Government Services. Their Procurement Division looks after all of the administrative details.
After the advertising, they help to coordinate the review to make sure that they’re fair, transparent, and accountable awards of contracts.
The line department that needs the services sets the criteria for what it is that they need. So the Department of EIA, for example, would enunciate exactly what it is that they want from a consultant, what the final product should be, how much work needs to be conducted, and who would be involved.
The Department of CGS does all of the other administrative details and helps the line department accountably and transparently award those contracts to outside firms.
Thank you for that explanation because I definitely misunderstood.
When the minister said yesterday that he is only in charge of his department and when we were asking government-wide questions about different evaluation processes, he said it wasn’t his department’s responsibility. I misunderstood that, so I thank you for that clarification.
In terms of a sole source contracts, let us go back and if we went to the contract C1350, which was the devolution negotiator, within your department, you said, “We don’t have the specific skills and the ability to do this, so we need to get it done fast. We want a sole source contract.”
You, as Madam Premier, the deputy minister of your department would then say, “This needs to be done. Fill out the paperwork and send it off to CGS.” Is that correct?
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Elliott. (interpretation ends) On this one, I am surprised it is a sole source. I recall advertising this and awarding this contract, so I don’t know how it became a sole source, this particular contract anyway. (interpretation) Premier.
These contracts are difficult to understand, so perhaps if we could designate a person to explain them for us… (interpretation ends) Those are more day-to-day details kind of things in terms of contracts and so on. I am just suggesting that if members feel that they need more information on those kinds of things, then we can provide information to the members.
Chairman (interpretation): Minister Kusugak has his hand up.
Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): You said that you misunderstood what I said yesterday.
We responded as best as we could and gave details.
If there was some misunderstanding, it is probably his own personal responsibility. It was not my fault that he misunderstood.
He only misunderstood if he did it wilfully. The things that I said yesterday in my statement were completely true as far as I could tell.
I just want everyone to know this. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
You were not the only one, we got all of that information and it wasn’t your department’s fault.
Going to our agenda.
Along the same lines as Mr. Schell’s questioning, is the house that is rented for the commissioner $66,000 per year?
Why is it that when she is working for the federal government, the Government of Nunavut is paying for it?
Who wants to address this question?
The house is also where the office is. It is a residence as well as having official functions.
Mr. Arvaluk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The commissioner is not an employee of the GN but is the appointee of the federal government.
Why is it that the territorial government is paying for the rent?
The Commissioner of Nunavut is jointly funded by the federal government and by the territorial government. The house is not just a residence but there is an office there as well.
Markus Weber can explain the details of that.
The commissioner is indeed appointed by the federal government and all of the salary and benefits of the commissioner are paid for by the federal government.
The space is a combination of residential and office space. It is shared by an administrative officer. There is an assistant that is a Government of Nunavut employee to assist with all of the administrative burdens of getting Executive Council’s decisions signed off by the commissioner and decisions of this House as well.
So for that reason, there is a mix of who pays for which elements.
This lease, in particular, is split. The cost of it is actually $33,000 territorial and $33,000 federal. We have entered into the lease, I understand, but a portion of those costs are paid for by the federal government; half of those costs are paid for by the federal government.
We also heard on the radio and in the media about a statement made by our new commissioner that she will be living in Kugluktuk.
When she has made the decision to stay in Kugluktuk, will the house still be paid for by the Government of Nunavut?
We all know that we have a freshly minted commissioner and she has only been on the job for a few days, so a lot of these issues are still up in the air.
Mr. Elliott… I’m sorry.
I thought you had your hand up. I guess you were moving your arms around. I’m sorry, but that’s why I acknowledged you.
Are there any further questions for EIA?
I will now give you an opportunity to make your closing remarks, Premier.
Hon. Eva Aariak (interpretation): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. For all of the questions, I hope we provided good information.
If more questions arise, we are open to your questions. Thank you for giving us an opportunity to appear before the committee.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Premier and your officials.
Sergeant-at-Arms, if you could escort the witnesses out.
We are now finished with this department and we will deal with the next one, but we will take a five-minute break if you don’t mind.
>>Committee recessed at 16:38 and resumed at 16:53
We can now resume our meeting. We will now move on to the Department of Health and Social Services. You can now proceed with your opening comments, Minister Curley.
The statement I am going to read is quite lengthy and complicated, so I will be reading in English.
First of all, I would like to thank you all for attending to this meeting, especially since some of the services we provide are quite complex, but they have to be heard by Nunavutmiut for their benefit.
I will read them in English.
(interpretation ends) Mr. Chairman, the Department of Health and Social Services is committed to supporting and sustaining an effective and efficient publicly funded health care and social services system that provides equitable access to appropriate services for all Nunavutmiut, consistent with Government of Nunavut priorities and directions.
The Department of Health and Social Services has close to 1,000 positions, most of which are highly skilled and technical.
In the ideal world, we would like to have close to 100 [percent] capacity. However, that is not the case and there are times when we must rely on the work of contractors in order to meet this commitment.
This is not unique to health care and it is not to Nunavut – the use of contractors to fill roles in health departments is common practice throughout Canada and the alternative is to cancel services and in extreme, unlikely cases, close health centres elsewhere.
During the fiscal year 2008-09, Health and Social Services awarded 276 contracts over $5,000, totalling $75.3 million.
Of the 276 contracts, 90 were contracts awarded through the tendering process and totalled $47.3 million, or 63 percent of all contracts over $5,000.
I recognize, Mr. Chairman, that the use of contractors and particularly the use of sole source contracts is a major concern of the Legislative Assembly, the Government of Nunavut, and of course, Mr. Chairman, my department.
The Department of Health and Social Services has and continues to aggressively address the issue of contracts.
Consequently, Mr. Chairman, the department has issued directives to the senior management of the department outlining their requirements of the government’s policy, programs, and services to ensure public trust and accountability and to ensure that we are prudent fiscal managers with respect to public resources.
To that end, Mr. Chairman, the department will cease all non-urgent, non-emergency, and non-clinical contracts once they have reached their expiration date.
Mr. Chairman, the Department of Health and Social Services recognized its growing dependence on sole source contracts.
In order to alleviate this situation, we, with the assistance from the Department of Community and Government Services, have recently issued a request for proposals to establish standing offer agreements for a variety of consulting requirements.
This should significantly decrease our dependence on sole source contracts. However, Mr. Chairman, I should point out that due to the critical and timely nature of our work, this department will, at times, continue to need the services of sole source providers.
The department has issued constant reminders to all senior management and managers that there will be no sole source contracts approved by the department, unless, of course, it is a matter of health and safety of the people of Nunavut.
Mr. Chairman, the department has taken a number of steps, short and long term, to reduce the dependence on contract services and the department will continue to aggressively work with the Department of Human Resources to fill the critical, indeterminate positions.
The department will work with the help of the Department of Human Resources, the Department of Education, Arctic College, and other accreditation education and training institutions to provide ongoing training for staff as required to do their jobs.
Further, Mr. Chairman, the department will review all current contracts to determine value for money and work performed.
Also, Mr. Chairman, the department has hired a full-time, indeterminate contract manager and contracts administrator to assist and to provide ongoing advice and monitoring of contracts process in the department.
The department will also continue to work with the Department of Community and Government Services to ensure that proper contracting and procurement processes are adhered to in accordance with the Financial Administration Manual and contract procedures and regulations.
Mr. Chairman, the department is committed to work with the Department of Finance to continue to improve the financial management, systems, and processes of the department to ensure public transparency and accountability of its budget.
Lastly, Mr. Chairman, the Department of Health and Social Services is totally committed to fixing the concerns regarding contract management and administration.
But I should emphasize that this has taken and will continue to take some time for dedicated and concentrated attention by senior management of the department.
Mr. Chairman, (interpretation) if you have any questions, I will be able to provide responses to them and I thank you for the opportunity to address the committee.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Curley. (interpretation ends) I think your department needs some lessons on spelling. We noticed some errors and typos throughout your text.
Hon. Tagak Curley: I note that as well. My apologies, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Curley. (interpretation ends) Minister Curley, do you have witnesses that you would like to join you before us?
Hon. Tagak Curley (interpretation): My deputy minister is here, so if the DM could go to the witness table.
Do you agree that the he can bring a witness to the table?
Chairman (interpretation): Sergeant-at-Arms, could you escort the witness in.
Minister Curley, please introduce your witness.
The person on my left is the only witness here at this time and he is (interpretation ends) Deputy Minister Alex Campbell. (interpretation) He has been the longest serving deputy minister in the department.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Curley and your deputy, and welcome.
Your first question, Mr. Elliott.
Thank you for your opening comments.
It actually looks like your department is making some interesting changes into how you do business.
The first question is in regard to your agency nurses. Just so that I know clear in my head, agency nurses are contracted out and there is actually a contract for them paid to a contractor and then the agency nurses are actually paid through the contractor.
It’s my understanding that the agency nurses and social workers are contracted to the agencies and the agency is the employer of these contracts.
All of the pay and benefits and the rest are the responsibility of the agencies themselves.
I would like to provide an opportunity for comments on the opening comments. Mr. Ningark would like to ask some questions.
In the opening comments on page 3 at the top of the page, it states that “… there will be no sole source contracts… unless, of course, it is a matter of health and safety of the people of Nunavut.”
With the H1N1 virus in remission, will this free up some resources of the department?
The H1N1 is called Nuvannaaluk in Inuktitut.
This will definitely assist our initiative.
The H1N1 drive was quite expensive.
Most of the contracts we are referring to from last year stem from the 2008-09 fiscal year.
It is stemming from these previous contracts.
Due to this, we have to keep in mind that it was not only the medical professionals nor the doctors and nurses that were contracted out.
Even our administration level staff positions are contracted out, such as within the finance department, or even to ensure that our operations continue, especially where we cannot fill the positions we are required to have. We have to contract out certain positions to ensure that our department operates smoothly.
That is what we mean when we talk about these contracts, but the member’s statement will definitely assist us as well.
To the opening comments. Mr. Ningark.
I apologize, but it is to the comments. I went ahead even though the microphone was off.
Even if I blow on it, it may not turn off.
I would like to refer to one paragraph, perhaps it is the second or third paragraph.
It states that “The department will work with the Department of Human Resources, the Department of Education, Arctic College… to provide ongoing training for staff.”
I imagine that this will help to alleviate the shortfalls we experience if these students could have a position awaiting them once they have graduated.
If this means that they will be graduating in the coming years, we hope that they will alleviate some of the demands for contracts as they come on stream.
We have to ensure that our people are trained and have a career to work in or even a future position when they graduate.
Will these types of details be taken into consideration when they are looking at creating new positions in his ministry?
With respect to what the member was speaking to, the statement is an expression of his support for the work undertaken by our department. I thank him for his constructive comments.
However, with regard to the paragraph’s contents, we understood it to be defined in this manner. At least, in my personal assessment, I meant it this way.
In our department, we have perhaps a thousand positions listed in our organization chart, but there are about three hundred positions currently vacant.
Some of these positions have been contracted out. In certain cases where a staff member was either too young or not capable enough, we had to undertake training for these staff members.
We had to contract out the trainers who could train these staff members to fulfill their duties in their positions. That occurred this year.
Even my predecessor ministers had to fill out their department with contracted qualified workers from outside Nunavut who could train staff while undertaking their contracted work.
Some of these contracts were fairly large and due to this reason, within our department, my deputy minister and I have discussed how best to resolve these challenges.
Our position is that we ought to be looking at qualified, trained Nunavutmiut who can fill these positions. After all, our department is not a training centre and is meant to fulfill government obligations with respect to health.