EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
And then she carries on to say, "one would expect that the housing corporation would consider such things as government accountability and openness".
It seems to me that our Access to Information and Privacy Commissioner feels that this particular question should have been answered with a bit more information than simply, no, it’s protected under clause 17 and clause 24.
I’m wondering if in light of what the Access to Information and Privacy Commissioner said in her letter, if the minister would review and consider tabling some of that information that I requested in written question four.
I think I like that question, where he says some.
I acknowledged the receipt of the response, and I also know and have in hand in front of me one of the comments from the Commissioner, where she goes, “On the other hand, in the market we must be landlords, knowledge of the competitions’ specific project formula may well be extremely prejudical.” So, there are some very supporting comments in this document that was there from my colleague also.
But, to his second part of the question, like I said I am willing to review these and also willing to consult with my colleague as to the specific information he will be seeking.
My fifth question concerned monthly costs to the Government of Nunavut for each leased unit.
I was wondering if the minister could comment to why he believes that the identities of the companies and people from whom the Government of Nunavut leases units should be kept a secret?
I think it’s quite clear that the reasons are very similar, if not the same, as for the earlier response.
Again, for the public record, the Commissioner says that “...if the disclosure would reasonably be expected to prejudice the competitive position of a third party the public body cannot disclose the information...” and she continues “...however, there has to be something more than simple assertion that this is true, there must be something to back this up.”
She says, “In my opinion, it would be difficult, if not impossible, to come to this conclusion without consulting the third parties involved.”
I’m wondering, did the ministers’ officials consult the third parties involved?
The letters to the third parties, to ask if we could disclose, had gone just as recently as of today, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Minister.
Thank you to the ministers’ officials for that response.
I’ll wrap up comments for the official record from the Access to Information Commissioner, she says, “It seems to me, however, that there is room to disclose some more information, even in those circumstances where disclosure of the specific contract information might breach section 24."
At the very least it seems to me that there can be no objection to the disclosure of the names of the landlords with whom the Housing Corporation has contracted.” Then she carries on here, she says “It may need a little imagination, but it seems to me that even in the face of section 24 the goals of openness and accountability can be achieved by the disclosure of more information, if not the specific information connected to each contract.”
I wonder if the minister or his officials can comment on those comments.
Again, in respect to my colleague and his inquiry and also the response from the Commissioner, there really is no one direction decision on this, there is room either way as indicated by the Commissioner.
So, I am again willing to sit down and meet with my colleague to go over the specific information as that is something I do not have or rather will not share with the House at this time.
Mr. Chairman: Thank you, Minister.
As one of the 19 Members of the Legislative Assembly I think all of us should have access to some of the public information.
I'm trying to elicit some confirmation out of the minister and his officials and his officials that secrecy, with respect to spending public monies is not in the public interest, I can’t see how secrecy is in the public interest when we are talking multi-million dollars worth of contracts and leases that we have to administer over here.
I am wondering if the minister can comment on that.
I don’t want to be misleading but I believe I understand where the member is heading with this question.
The reason behind us not putting this information out was, as stated in my letter, I believe that there were some very supporting comments from the Integrity Commissioner.
I am willing to sit down with my colleague that there are no secrets in finding out what the request is with my colleague.
I leave that offer open to my colleagues.
Maybe the person on the minister’s right can respond to this.
There was a press release on January 2005 in providing 160 units in 25 communities within Nunavut.
One of the concerns that has been brought to my attention, I wonder if the minister or his officials can update me on the projects that was to be built in Resolute Bay but has been moved to Arctic Bay.
The Mayor and Councilors have not yet received any response on this, so I want more information on this?
We have been told that they are scheduled to arrive this year.
Maybe Mr. D’Arcy can elaborate more on this.
If can indicate who he is asking.
I want Mr. D’Arcy to clarify or elaborate more on why this was moved?
Why the tri-plex was moved from Resolute Bay to Arctic Bay, because there is also a shortage of housing in Resolute Bay.
We are on L-6.
Mr. D’Arcy, do you wish to respond?
When we decided to go ahead with Infrastructure Canada funding it was decided that every community would get at least a unit, or several units.
In the case of Resolute Bay, that equalled the tri-plex, or three units.
We did the material tender and had the material for Resolute Bay on the Eastern Arctic Sealift and it was steaming up the coast.
However, we were not able to construct in Resolute Bay last summer for a variety of reasons.
We elected instead of taking the materials and just marshalling them into the community and then building again this summer, we elected to divert them to the Hamlet of Arctic Bay, the Municipality of Arctic Bay to look after a pressing need for staff housing units there.
There were some lease holds that we had; some leased units in staff housing that were not appropriate and we were going to drop those lease holds.
So we had an opportunity to be able to build three units in Arctic Bay with that material and then bring in another triplex in Resolute Bay this summer.
So, we gave those options to the Financial Management Board.
They approved the change to the Capital Plan for the Corporation and that’s exactly what’s going to happen.
This year we’ll bring a triplex up to Resolute Bay and we’re working closely with Community and Government Services and the Hamlet and the housing association up there to ensure that the triplex gets built in Resolute Bay.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. D’Arcy.
So my constituents will have a clear understanding.
I wanted to raise a question.
The units that were going to be built last year in Rankin Inlet and we heard that they’re going to be built later on in the fall.
Can the Minister update us as to what the status is because I’m pretty sure there are a number of people who are on the waiting list in Rankin Inlet?
Those are under Capital Budget and we will work on that next fall.
We are dealing with Operations and Maintenance, the members will know.
Hon. Peter Kilabuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 2003/04, the two units went through. 2004/05, construction will start in the spring.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): Thank you. 2003/04, that were delayed because they went over the budget.
When Jack Anawak was the Member of the Legislative Assembly, I heard that they were cancelled but they were included in the base funding but it was delayed for two fiscal years.
I’ll have other questions later.
You made a comment about people who are staying in public housing units.
I wanted to ask a question on who makes the decisions on who gets the units, because on the waiting list, sometimes the people who are waiting, they say that person was waiting before or behind me who got their house.
Those kinds of things might be going on too.
When constituents come up to us and give us some information to ask questions and that, that’s what we try and do.
So, who makes the decisions on who gets public housing?
The LHO at the community level makes those decisions.
Mr. Evyagotailak: Yes, because some times some of the people in constituency have mentioned that some Board of Directors may not have much to say about who gets it.
My constituents are very frustrated about some of the Board Members but I’m not too sure, I think as ministers, with the President of Housing, should look into these and try and make everybody aware that they should be treated equally, because some of the Board Members would intend to try and there families or friends to get the units before the others.
So you know, Board of Directors, Managers, if they want to be treated nice, treat everybody the same way that they want to be treated, that’s how it should be, not favoring anybody.
We all want to be treated equally.
Everybody wants to be treated equally; I think that message should be sent out to the Managers and Board of Directors.
Mr. Chairman: (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Evyagotailak.
As per my colleague’s, from Rankin North, earlier problems about more training required, this is definitely a good comment from my colleague to be part of the training process.
But also, I’ll let for the members information that I am currently working on a meeting for the spring and hopefully in May with the entire Local Housing Organizations Chairpersons, and also the Secretary Managers.
I will definitely use that opportune time to point this message.
Also at this meeting we want to go over the formula funding for the LHO.
So I note my colleagues comments on this matter.
Mr. Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister.
Anything else Mr. Evyagotailak
Another point that I’d like to bring up that for that staff.
We all know that the facts that’s his working for Housing for many years.
There’s just one that was fired, I’m not sure if they were fired or laid off.
The poor guy lost his wife about two years ago and a son not too long ago; I’m not sure how he was dismissed from the staff.
That’s been a person who was repairing furnace or just like that.
He was one of the guys who were working for the Housing Corporation for a long time.
I’m not sure why he was dismissed or fired.
Those things should be looked into, and let the public know why they were dismissed, because there was questions, and I couldn’t say anything about them because I don’t work for Housing Corporation.
At that time, just before I got elected, I was a President for Housing for two months, but I had to resign after I got elected.
I’d like to know what the minister or the President are going to be doing on these times.
Mr. Chairman (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Evyagotailak.
At this Witness Table, we’re not aware of any staff under Nunavut Housing Corporation who may be in that situation.
So if I can ask my colleague to clarify that if it is either Housing Corporation or the Local Housing Association he is referring to on this matter.
Mr. Evyagotailak: Mr. Chairman, yes.
The person was working for our Local Housing Organization.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Evyagotailak.
Hon. Peter Kilabuk (interpretation): That would be an issue the Local Housing Association Board would deal with.
I would like to thank the Minister and your staff.
Before I go into my question, I think that I just want to acknowledge something that is a rarity to see in the Main Estimates here and the Business Plans of the department.
As you know at the back of each, the last part of each department or crown corporation that is in here, it shows the PYs from the previous year to the current proposed year and the Housing Corporation PYs haven’t changed.
I think that is a rarity that we’ve seen in almost of the other departments mushrooming their PYs and growing and I think that whatever the Housing Corporation is doing maybe the minister should share that with some of his Cabinet colleagues so that they can get the mushroom under control.
Just a comment going into it.
Mr. Chairman, my question and I asked the Minister in the House yesterday about it and it is dealing with the staff housing.
As I indicated in every department almost has got an increase in PYs in their organizations.
We know that there is a staff housing shortage across the territory.
I was wondering if there are any plans at looking to try and address that issue over the next year or so.
I just want to, be clear that my colleague is asking regarding the same issue that he was referring to yesterday regarding staff housing.
Mr. Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Minister.
Like I say in all the other Business Plans they seem a mushrooming of the PYs in the departments.
We know that there is a shortage in staff housing.
I was just wondering if there was anything in the works to address that issue.
I’ll try and respond to my colleague in two ways.
First that the ongoing work to address the staff housing shortage continues.
As I indicated also yesterday, we’re trying to look at different options for consideration later on.
And also, possibly the second point about the PYs we realize that we really are short staffed because the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
I hope that answers my colleague’s question.
The minister indicated that they’re working on something and that they are hoping to bring something forward and plans and that he can indicate when that will be.
Will it be this year, next year, and next month?
When can we expect to see some kind of a plan of attack in dealing with the critical staffing housing shortage that we face?
As part of that process, one of the things that I am hoping to do over the next couple of weeks is present the staffing housing strategy to Cabinet.
The other part of his question regarding the timeframe, when we’ll be looking to present these options, I would certainly like to be able to do that before too late in the fall, and hopefully, before September latest, by August anyways, to have some options for consideration.
I know another issue that I’ve asked questions about to the Minister in the past is the, I think it’s a condominium project that they have here in Iqaluit.
Work was done on that.
I’m just wondering if the fund for that was that something that went through the Operations and Maintenance of the budget of the department or is that something that was allocated as Capital, before I ask anymore questions on that.
In hopes that we may recover this, it was taken out of the working capital from the Housing Corporation. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Do they have a final figure on how much that was?
I’m led to believe that the final figures are not in yet.
I guess there are probably still legal fees going on top of that.
Once the final figure is arrived at, would the Minister be willing to provide that information to the members of the House.
Yes I will be more than willing to do that.
I appreciate the response and the commitment made by the Minister.
The other question I have deals with the funding that we get from Canada Mortgage Housing Corporation.
I know that it’s on a declining scale right now, and that we’re probably starting to take our big hits in funding from them.
What kind of plans does the corporation have to deal with that loss of income or revenue coming in from Canada Mortgage Housing Corporation through that Contribution Agreement?
Yes, my colleague is correct.
When we get burdened on this government to try and sit and watch the support fall, so, in our effort we will be lobbying for more support from both the federal government and the Canada Mortgage Housing Corporation.
At the same time, this government is going to have to look at its weight in support to housing if all of the efforts fail us.
I wish the minister luck and I’m sure everyone here would commit to supporting you in your efforts to try and address that funding shortfall from the federal government in securing more funding from them. So, just keep that in mind.
One of the other things that I was looking at and I know that there was announcement made and I don’t know if it was this year or last year.
Time seems to all blend together now, after you reach 40 years old, that happens to all of us.
There was an announcement that was made for the Housing Corporation, some of the Homeownership Programs that it offers; I don’t know if it was the Downpayment Assistance Program that took family size into consideration when they are setting the ceiling of income levels for that.
I am just wondering that has been implemented into the other programs that the Corporation has as well, like the Home Repair Program and all the other Housing Homeownership Programs?
Yes it is part of the full package.
The full package in line with the other programs that we have got and that our Senior’s Programs.
So it is part of our supporting programs under Nunavut Housing Corporation.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister. Mr. Tootoo.
It is something that I know that I have raised in the past and I know it was raised here again in the House by one of my colleagues very recently, and that I know that during the old Northwest Territories Housing Corporation days it came out with this DAP Program and then they EDAPed it, which made the contributions much larger to the individuals to qualify to be able to buy a home.
I think in a lot of cases only by bidding up to 70 percent or 80 percent of the mortgage that the assistance from the Corporation was those people able to qualify and get a mortgage for the difference.
With the increasing costs of fuel, of power, of everything, a lot of those people, whether they have had another child or something like that, that they are right on the edge to be able to afford to pay and maintain a house when they qualify for the Program.
Given the inflationary factors and other factors that are out there, are there any plans at looking at assessing whether there is a need or requirement to look at finding some kind of assistance for people who are running into trouble, in being able to meet their mortgage obligations as well as their just to be able to maintain their homes and feed their families?
At the immediate time, like my colleague says, there really is nothing in place to assist homeowners that are right at the borderline.
I will ask my President to see if he has had any discussions with anybody along the line of questioning that my colleague is posing.
If you don’t mind, Mr. Chairman?
We are looking at a couple of new innovative programs but they are not fully developed at this point.
Obviously, we don’t have Cabinet or Financial Management Board approval to move ahead with them, or funding for the programs, but they do involve additional assistance to senior homeowners.
We are finding now that we have been delivering homeownership programming for 20 years above the tree line.
Some of our homeowners are getting older and we are looking at programs that will assist them in staying as a homeowner for a longer period of time and as well as other programs to assist, particularly public housing tenants to move out of public housing into homeownership.
I would like to thank Mr. Scott for his answer and I’m sure that I look forward to hopefully if he sees ministerial and cabinet approval, and Financial Management Board approval, to seeing some announcements on those programs in the future.
The other question that I have, and Mr. Scott alluded to a little bit of trying to find ways to assist people who are in social housing or public housing move into the private sector where there would be homeownership or their own place.
Is there any a policy or anything in place that say there’s a lot of government employees that live in social housing.
Is there any mechanism in place that if they’re eligible for staff housing, then they have to go out of social housing and get into staff housing.
Under the Nunavut Housing Corporation, a policy to that specific issue, no.
However, at the community levels the Local Housing Organizations do like try to encourage staff or people who are above the threshold income level to look at homeownership.
The Housing Organization Boards do try to encourage people to look at homeownership.
You have 26 seconds, Mr. Tootoo.
That means I can speak slowly.
My question deals with staff housing.
Staff housing tenants are subsidized anywhere from 40-70 percent, I believe.
I’m just wondering if there’s any thought looking at the, you have senior civil servants, that according to information that’s been made available by the government, that are making in excess of $130,000 a year and in some cases they have dual incomes in those units, of looking at some kind of a scale.
Where maybe in cases like that, where the subsidy may be lower and allow us to free up some dollars to put towards more staff housing units for people who really can’t afford to get into homeownership.
As a matter of fact that is something we’re discussing and reviewing at this time under the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Minister. (interpretation): At this time we’re on page L-6. I would like to suggest to the members that they stick to the subject and to the page.
I wanted to speak for just a few minutes to Page L-10 of the Business Plan.
There is a figure there of overcrowded conditions by community.
The national average is about 5 percent and Cambridge Bay it’s not quite 10 percent.
That’s nearly twice the national average, the sources of 2001 Aboriginal People’s Survey, Community statistics.
I’m wondering if the minister can comment on how accurate he believes those figures to be in the 2005.
The stats we have here for the over crowding conditions by the communities.
The drafts that have been presented to us are in my view and understanding fairly accurate.
To speak on the matter, I’ll get my expert to speak on it a bit more.
Mr. D’Arcy
When we are trying to, from the year 2000 when the Corporation started, we’ve been trying to get accurate data.
Get data that can stand the acid test with the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporations, with the federal government and with the people here.
We have a Rent Scale Program that collects data for household bases for public housing in each and every community.
We were pleased when the 2001 data from the Aboriginal People’s Survey which is a subset of the census, so part of the 2001 Canada wide census was released.
And it was actually very close to the data that we’ve been collecting from the Local Housing Organizations.
What that meant was we could use this data and also use the data from the LHOs to track where we are in terms of, in this case, overcrowding conditions by community.
So we think as far as trends go I don’t think we could talk about specific numbers, and specific community, but as far as a general trend goes we’re happy with this data in 2001 and we think that if we take the 3 percent growth in the territory into consideration or even the, population goes by community, into consideration and wrap that up to 2005 numbers, it would be approximately the same in terms of statistical accuracy.
To specifically answer the member’s question, yes we think that this is still a draft that will be pretty much the same, if we use 2005 numbers.
Thank you, Mr. D’Arcy.
Last November I tabled a petition from the Cambridge Bay Housing Association in the House signed by over two hundred residents of Cambridge Bay and many of them were people who don’t have housing.
In my constituency work, I receive many phone calls, letters, and visits from people in the community looking for help with public housing, social housing.
It seems to me that there’s a real pressing need for housing in Cambridge Bay, of all types, and probably will be more so in the future as our community expands with the employment and business opportunities that are coming up because of the mining over there.
People are moving into town, they are coming in from other communities in the Kitikmeot to take advantage of the opportunities.
I’m wondering if the minister could comment on whether his corporations are taking those kinds of factors into account, when there calculating their methodology?