EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
If next election we are not going to be using the 9:00 starting time for the polling to open and closing at 7:00, were not going to use that, or were going to use it, come down to Kitikmeot and put your polling station up in Kitikmeot so that the other regions could know how, what the difference is, otherwise use the times from 8:00 am, 9:00 pm and 10:00 in different times but it will start up the same without the time.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you Ms. Kusugak.
I think I’ll just take that as information to help us in preparing our notes for the Management and Services Board.
I would like to welcome back Ms. Kusugak and Mr. Orr.
It’s good to see you again.
I wanted to follow up on my questioning yesterday just for the public record.
I asked yesterday about notifying ineligible candidates for the next election.
I noted that the media did a little bit of coverage on it this morning.
It was unclear in the media.
In reviewing the Hansard from yesterday it was unclear there as well.
What are you planning to do to notify the ineligible candidates for the next election.
There is no procedure outlined in the legislation for me to inform those former candidates specifically.
To me, it would make most sense that I inform them in the time period before the next election when it is in the public’s mind that an election will be happening soon.
Certainly we can also do the more public things like posting this information to the website.
There is not direction given to me by the legislation in this regard.
That is my suggestion.
I agree that I do not want people to begin to think that they will run in the next election and then discover only when they go to submit their nomination papers that, no, they can’t do so.
At the same time I think maybe a letter, three or four years early can get lost or forgotten about in that time period.
That would be my plan, would be to inform them in that period, after an election date has been announced, then I would write to those 29 people.
It’s not an onerous task.
Thanks to Ms. Kusugak.
I would suggest that you write to them immediately as an initial follow up from the election that ended February 16th.
More than a year has already gone by.
If you can write to them immediately and let them know that you’ve filed your report.
You’ve had a meeting with the Legislative Assembly, and there’s been some media coverage.
That would be initially what I would do and then you could remind them again, three to four months prior to an election and also provide a list to election officials.
I’m sure when you make up the packages, you will inform your Returning Officers about ineligible candidates.
I strongly believe it’s in the interest of the public to know immediately as well, who the ineligible candidates are because there are probably questions out there right now because of the media coverage this morning.
There are probably people wondering who the ineligible candidates are who didn’t file their paper work, for the next election, what happened with the RCMP investigation and all that sort of stuff so that we can bring some closure to it.
Then we can move forward towards the next election.
Before the fact, in the plain language documents we wrote for candidates and agents, I believe it was at that time clearly defined what happens if you don’t file and people were, in that document, also warned that if you don’t think you’re going to get your information in on time, contact the Chief Electoral Officer.
It said what happens if you don’t put this information in on time and the answer said, well, you will not be eligible to run in the next election, although I believe, at the time, when people were working on that, they weren’t thinking of the results following.
Are you asking for a private notification to the individuals concerned, or are you asking for a more public notification for everybody to know who is eligible and who is not eligible to run?
Thank you Ms. Kusugak, I think yes privately write a letter as a follow up, just to bring closure to their file.
Then under the Act based on what I know you make public information about all the candidates election expenses and results.
It would just be a public courtesy thing where you inform the public of the final disposition of the February 16th Nunavut election.
I don’t know how you would word it, but I’m sure Mr. Orr could probably come up with appropriate wording.
The candidates should know anyway, they should be aware that this is the case.
I’m also sure that in the years coming that if any of them are considering running for election and are looking for nominators, the nominators would certainly want to know if they are an eligible candidate.
If it’s in a public place, there would be a record of it.
Ms. Kusugak: Perhaps it doesn’t require a reply, I’ve taken that as information.
Mr. Barnabas (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask, just recently we had received a letter from Revenue Canada regarding the Federal Election.
It was up to us whether we wanted to accept it or not.
How is it within Nunavut election whether the Revenue Canada, what is the actual situation here, or am I the only that does not understand about the Revenue Canada situation.
Ms. Kusugak: I’m sorry Mr. Chairman I don’t actually understand the question very well.
Mr. Barnabas, if you could clarify your question.
My question is, when we’re filling out our income tax, there’s a question there if we want to be listed on the federal government’s Election Act or list, and how is this being used with the Nunavut Elections Act.
Ms. Kusugak: Thank you very much.
When people check the box when they do their income tax, the question asks do you mind if this information is shared with Elections Canada or do you want your name to go on the voters list for Elections Canada and when people check that off that is for the Federal Election, although we do have an information sharing agreement with Elections Canada, for voter relating to voting only, so at their request we provide them with our voter information and we have just actually received the first extract from Elections Canada from their voters data base.
So, they get the information off your income tax forms, that yes you want to be included on the list and if they have that information, then we will get their list and that way, we will be aware if we are perhaps missing people from the list.
There are new registrations we should make from getting that information.
I would like to follow up on Mr. Peterson’s questioning earlier.
As you know Ms. Kusugak, sometimes we have to bail out some of the people who didn’t file their financial reports on the election expenses as well as other issues.
I think quite a few people, when they were asked by candidates to be their financial agent, didn’t quite understand what the procedures were and what kind of situation they would be in.
So, yes, there is going to be Inuktitut writing here and I know that some people are given time to be sent documents to read.
I don’t know if these documents are properly understood by individuals who accept the responsibility of that position.
I don’t know if it’s translated properly for people to understand.
My question is, how do you make those people understand what they’re getting into.
I understand your comment completely.
I do know that in some instances, a prospective candidate will come up to somebody and say sign here, you won’t have to do anything when in actual fact that person has responsibilities.
It is one of the difficulties I suppose, of operating in a system where there aren’t parties because in a party system, there has been so much preparation and the candidates have been nominated early etcetera before an election that everybody is more aware of their responsibilities.
In our system, over a 35 day time period, the people are nominated and they quickly move out to campaigning and getting their campaign underway.
The financial agent is often appointed in a hurry.
The candidate might not have spent a lot of time to find out what’s required of them.
It’s something I struggle with because I really want people to know what they need to do.
People are not very interested during the time of a campaign in the financial aspect.
They just want to get out and do things.
And then it’s afterwards that the financial agents work becomes more.
They’re likely to come up onto the understanding of their responsibilities.
In some of the instances that we had over the last year, sometimes the candidate would say, well I haven’t seen the financial agent in months and the financial agent would say, well the candidate didn’t ever give me anything and there was a lack of communication.
We are going to be producing a separate package for a financial agent.
We will during the next election be offering teleconference where people can phone into maybe our 1-800 number and in what ever language people choose, they’ll be able to listen to what they need to do and to ask questions about what receipts they need to keep and how do they sort this out.
I would say it was an area that we spent quite a lot energy on because we wanted to work better for people.
We knew if anybody has run in an election before in the Northwest Territories, the book and paper work required was quite extensive and we really tried to reduce it, while at the same time giving that kind of public responsibility, and public accountability.
I’m always looking for more information and more answers on how to do this well.
Those are my ideas for the next election.
It’s difficult when it happens and the intense interest is just over a short period of time.
All we can do is put out a lot of public information in the month preceding an election to say if you’re thinking about being a candidate, please find someone that can work with you closely and that can do the financial work.
Mr. Barnabas (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Sandy, for giving me that information.
Sometimes unintentionally, they see their names in the newspaper and think, “My name is out in the public now,” and become nervous and I’ve seen this happen.
Because of this fact, who is responsible for the candidates, for the screening period and the financial agencies, whose responsibility is it to evaluate the financial agencies.
Does Mr. Barnabas mean like the qualifications of the financial agent to do the work, or evaluate the returns that the financial agent sends in, I’m slightly confused.
I was just trying to get the financial information, sometimes they have to show their expenses and yes they have to have qualifications for good management on finances.
But, I’m asking who is responsible for ensuring that these agents are doing an adequate job with the financial information.
It’s really the candidates’ responsibility to chose a suitable financial agent.
You as members have all filled out the forms or worked with your financial agent who has.
There’s certainly not a requirement to be anything like an accountant to do our reporting.
I believe that anybody that’s ever worked with the, in a hamlet office for instance or perhaps a co-op or a northern office can handle this easily.
And certainly, with the ability to phone our office and get support in English and Inuktitut, then people shouldn’t, I believe, have difficulty.
When Metro Solomon was working with our office, he would tell people, if you phone me I will work with you line by line and help you to fill it out and send in the information.
Hillary Muckpa worked with him on that as well.
They’d have to be somebody the candidates have confidence in.
When we set up the new Elections Act, we made a separate position for a campaign manager that a candidate could have, and a financial agent that he must have, because I thought the terminology we use to use, which was an official agent, led people often to believe that the campaign manager is kind of person that we think of somebody that runs teas and welcoming events was suitable for an official agent and once a candidate was in the middle of the campaign, they realized oh, this person has to sign for the financial responsibility.
So, we thought by dividing those into two, we were making it more apparent that there were responsibilities as such.
I hope I’ve answered the question, but please ask me again if I haven’t.
Yes, we will slowly learn as we go along and progress.
We have already learned a lot since the last election.
My other question is, the successful candidates are given seven days after the election to make a report and a lot of our constituencies don’t get regular schedule airlines coming into the communities.
Those official documents have to be submitted within a certain number of days, seven days in fact.
I’m wondering why such a short time is designated.
Can an extension be made to accommodate the inconveniences in some of the communities?
Ms. Kusugak: Excuse me Mr. Chairman.
I just need a few minutes to find the appropriate section in the act.
We just checked back.
A successful candidate, like anybody else, has in effect 60 days to file their financial return.
The problem with that is that there is another section in the act that says that a successful candidate cannot sit in the assembly until their return has been received.
So, I think it would be to do with the timing of the start of the assembly, as opposed to the time of having to put in a return as such, if you know what I mean.
If the assembly were to start 60 days passed that, then you would have the full 60 days, as did any other candidate.
Mr. Barnabas, do you have any further questions.
I’ll ask this question in English.
(interpretation ends) I have a question that was not addressed in your recommendations.
It has to do with the contributions to candidate regulations.
There was no reference to that what so ever.
Suppose you did not receive any comments or complaints or any sort with respect to the amount of funds that can be donated to a candidate.
Were there no complaints during the last election?
Mr. Curley, do you mean the contribution limits of $30 thousand?
Nobody complained that the amount that the amount was too little and there was really no candidate that came close to spending that amount, so I haven’t received any criticism or actually comment at all on that subject.
Yes, I realize that and fully understand the amount or limit that can be granted or donated to a candidate.
I know the theory behind it in Canada.
Obviously, in order to try and make as many individuals as possible participate in democracy, they purposely limit the amount each individual can donate to a candidate.
The thing is, in Nunavut, that’s very different because no individuals in any given constituency, I don’t really believe, other than corporations, that one way to participate is through donating to a candidate in terms of funds and so on.
I was wondering what happens if a candidate receives a $5 thousand donation from an individual.
Obviously that’s not allowed.
What would you advise a candidate to do with that?
Instead of backing it, what do we do with it?
Under the present legislation you would have to tell the person that was going to give you the money what that the limit was and that they had exceeded it and they’d simply have to write you a different cheque for the amount that was allowable.
Mr. Curley: The current limit is the same for corporations as it is for individuals.
I really think our legislation should differentiate between a corporation and individuals mainly because the sources of raising financing for candidates in seriously contested ridings anyway, have a very challenging situation wishing to raise funds.
Obviously the Management Services Board can propose that but is the current law based on a Southern system or has any thought been given as to whether or not in some regions it may be difficult for individuals to donate to candidates so, therefore most of the candidates pretty much rely on corporations to raise their campaign dollars.
It is difficult because candidates really shouldn’t be asking that because financial agents are not really aware that they should be the ones that should be knocking on the doors of the potential donors.
Would you be open to amending the limits that the corporations can donate so that it is not the same amount of individual donations?
To give a really good answer, I would have to do some research as to what happens in all the other areas.
Certainly, we know, watching the Federal Government, the corporation donations have been pretty well eliminated.
When we were constructing the Act, the majority of the Act was on the Ajauqtiit Committee recommendations, the recommendations of the former Chief Electoral Officer, and I talked to my colleagues about what they found worked really well in their Elections Act, that they thought we should include, as well as meeting with groups through the territory.
I’m not exactly sure where the source of that particular clause and that particular amount came from because my memory isn’t that good.
Perhaps Mr. Orr does remember.
I wouldn’t want to speculate right now.
I think I should ask other people what they do and why they do it so I would have a good recommendation to make to the Financial Management Board or if the Financial Management Board wanted to discuss it further, that I would have some sound information to base that opinion on or give them some data.
I am also interested in hearing what Mr. Orr might have to say on that because I know that when we were doing the preparation for the campaign, there were potential donor like in my riding, out of provinces, who were willing to put in the paper but we had to turn them down.
And I sort of felt it was a bit unfair because like I said before, raising financing is a bit difficult, so you pretty much either deal with the corporations that you do know and if you don’t know your really at a disadvantage as to where you get your contributions from.
So what I’m trying to suggest to you is maybe separate the corporations and so on, what would be the consequences or problem with opening it up to other donors that do business in Nunavut, even if they are based outside of Nunavut.
I know there is a reference, they could donate providing they do business in Nunavut, but then there are also individuals I know, we had to send a check back, a friend donated a small amount but was not a resident.
Even an individual was willing to donate, where as in local ridings, many of our people tend to believe that a word of encouragement is going to make a candidate elected.
Most of the time it’s a bill vote and everything else and all the other paraphernalia involved that get them elected.
Could you help us out in whether or not these are within the means of the assembly to change if we wish to do so?
Very interesting from a policy point of view, I know that when the Act was drafted, I believe the limit was raised from a former limit on the contribution.
The idea that the limit would be the same for individuals and corporations, I believe has been a historical practice in both the first election in Nunavut and in the Northwest Territories before that.
There was no suggestion coming from either inside election Nunavut or outside to change it at that time, because it was felt that one thousand five hundred per person, whether that person is a human or a legal person, was a generous limit.
On the idea that a corporation being not one in Nunavut, the provision is, the corporation has to carry on business in Nunavut, this ties in with the Business Corporations Act where a business that wants to carry on business here but isn’t actually registered or incorporated has to register with the registering company.
So we thought that would tie in with existing provision, and the underlying policy principle is that people who do not have a connection with Nunavut either because their an individual residing in Nunavut, and of course they don’t have to reside in the constituency where the elections taking place, but don’t reside in Nunavut, or corporation that doesn’t have some connection to carry on business in Nunavut should be able to use their money to influence a decision over which that has no effect on them, just as we wouldn’t want American companies coming in and financing candidates.
Running for parliament, the theory is, you don’t want people outside the jurisdiction influencing elections in the side of jurisdiction, so that was the policy behind it and if the assembly wanted to look at it again, I would advice some caution on that.
Chairman: Thank you Mr. Orr.
Mr. Curley: Thank you, I understand all that, but Nunavut is not exactly the same as any other provinces where there financial contributions can be seen as influencing both and so on.
Expenses can be pretty high in this part of the world because production of the many paraphernalia needed are only have to be done outside of Nunavut as well to get a really quality campaign material and all that kind of stuff.
I remember generally, some potential donors said is that all, you know like why not just bank it and use it for another next election, but that was not allowed either.
In our situation, I think that really has to be, in many respects, improved because there were problems with trying to raise financing from regular individuals in Nunavut.
People are not really into donating to candidates, other than the corporations.
So, I feel that we need to try and address that.
During the Financial Management Board we’ll address that.
We don’t really have to model the Southern campaign donations limits and other things but we should improve it to try and ensure that all the candidates be given a good run during their campaign.
I would like to follow up on something that was mentioned earlier in regards to individuals who have disqualified themselves from the next election.
I think it’s important that those individuals be informed right away and also that the public be made aware of who they are.
This is a small territory.
Those individuals may decide to run for a different election.
There are all kinds of elections going on.
There might be a federal one coming up pretty soon.
There are municipal elections, Inuit organization elections and all kinds of local elections that go on.
In most cases, those people that want to be candidates in elections have to get people to sign their nomination papers and I think I would want to know if someone came to me and asked me to sign their nomination papers.
If I knew they were disqualified from the next federal election for what ever reason, I might think twice about signing their nomination papers.
I think we owe it to the public to be informed of who these individuals are and then at least they can make an informed decision as to whether they want to support someone for a different election down the road.
I think that is an important thing.
It was already put out there in the last big ad that you posted after the elections.
There were all the names with the question marks on there, and the question marks are still out there in people minds.
They’re wondering what happened to those question marks.
In the Integrity Commissioner’s Report, he had indicated that a number of them had been resolved but that there were still more that were in the works.
I think that people have a right to know of those ones that have disqualified themselves.
They may want nomination forms signed for another election, a different kind of election.
That could affect a persons decision in whether or not to support that individual in nominating them or not.
That was just a comment to make and to add to some of the comments that were made to some of the other members.
I would like to ask another question but I’m not sure where it fits.
I know of two facilities in Nunavut where individuals are staying that are basically institutionalized.
They are in an adult group home or something.
I know that there is one here and I believe that there is one in Rankin Inlet and I’m not sure if there are any other ones that are out there.