EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Mr. Chairman, members look forward to reviewing the first annual report of the Human Rights Tribunal, which is required by law to be tabled in the Legislative Assembly, so that we can begin to evaluate the success of this new body.
Mr. Chairman, the standing committee recommends that the government table information in this House concerning the final costs of its major capital projects, including information on the Inuit labour content of each project, as well as any bonuses or penalties that have been assessed under the NNI Policy.
Before we proceed, I would like to remind members of the following: according to Rule 77(1), you have ten minutes to speak, and according to Rule 77(2), subject to the discretion of the Chair, a member may speak more than once to a matter under discussion, but not until every member wishing to speak has spoken.
I suggest to members that, where possible, you ask your detailed questions during the page-by-page review of the departmental estimates.
Mr. Mapsalak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to just briefly make a general comment in regard to this.
Since I became a Member of the Legislative Assembly, I have been working very hard on behalf of the smaller communities, especially for the communities that don’t have any job opportunities.
Those are the smaller communities that I represent and I will continue to work hard on behalf of those smaller communities.
I have been asking questions to the Minister of Justice in regard to justice questions and he had responded to me that we have to consider the public safety also.
The RCMP and the guards are not the only ones that are safeguarding.
In spite of that, I will continue to work hard on behalf of my constituents. We would like the smaller communities to be considered if you are going to be building healing facilities.
I believe that the smaller communities can take on those responsibilities and I’m sure it can benefit the government, especially if they use the community that is non-decentralized.
So therefore, I would suggest that the government consider the non-decentralized communities in the upcoming years when you are establishing those facilities.
So I just wanted to point that out.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Mapsalak. (interpretation ends) I have no more members on my list for general comments.
We will now proceed to the page-by-page review of the departmental estimates, starting with page E-6.
Details of Capital. Tangible Assets.
Total Headquarters Region. $4 million.
(interpretation) I am sorry, I was giving you too much money; it’s $400,000.
I welcome the minister and his officials to the Committee of the Whole.
Can the minister expand a little bit and provide some details on what the $400,000 would encompass under the small capital program?
Those are for various items, for example, we try to take the inmates out to the outpost camps and take them out on the land.
It would encompass snowmobiles, vehicles, and especially for the coroner’s office, where we have to replace it because of age.
It’s under small capital in the $400,000. We have also included computers and compliance with the law. They are all in there.
Page E-6. (interpretation ends) Justice.
Total Headquarters Region. $400,000.
Chairman: Total Tangible Assets. $400,000.
Chairman: Page E-7.
Just an information item.
Turn to page E-9.
This is an issue that I’ve brought up on more than one occasion, and I do get the same response, but I will keep asking that same question until I get the results that I want.
I keep referring to the smaller communities and the lack of employment in those communities.
I would like your department to see if it’s possible to get some positions placed in the smaller communities. And also for things like healing centres. Also the small communities would like to see those types of facilities and other programs go to the small communities because employment is very limited and the main reason is that they’re non-decentralized.
Would the minister be able to consider including the smaller communities when they’re looking at the locations of those facilities and other programs?
We’re looking at setting up that new correctional centre to be placed in Rankin Inlet because of course we don’t want to put anybody in jeopardy. There will have to be additional RCMP members should an emergency arise. If anything happens we would be liable and I don’t want to get into that situation while I am the minister.
We would like to make sure that the people are safeguarded.
In regard to the healing centre we are currently not dealing with that right now, but of course we will go back to it some time in the future.
I would like to thank the minister for that information. Maybe I misunderstood it but on E-8 that is written as: (interpretation ends) including on the land camps and open custody homes. (interpretation) That’s the reason why I brought it up.
We are on page E-9.
Before I start asking a question I need clarification on this page. It says, “Headquarters Region.
Nunavut various correctional centre $1.5 million” on page E-9 and then over on the Appendix 3, under Justice, it has, on page III-5 it says Rankin Inlet Correctional Centre.
Are we talking about the same capital item? Can the minister clarify it?
Hon. Paul Okalik: Yes, we are talking about the same thing, and it is becoming quite frustrating going through this every year. So whoever is listening who works on these, please get it right next year. I’m getting tired of this exercise.
I thank the minister for clarifying that.
I echo his sentiments; it would be nice if when the capital estimates were printed if they were correct the first time.
This leads me to my next question. Last year the substantiation sheet for this particular project listed Iqaluit as the location, and now we’re listing it here as Rankin Inlet. Can the minister clarify for the committee how the decision was arrived at to locate the new facility from Iqaluit to Rankin Inlet?
It was based on the central location of Rankin Inlet, and also, as I said, for security reasons, we require sufficient RCMP presence for backup in the event of an emergency in any facility.
So, Rankin Inlet was the ideal location.
Can the minister give us an indication of whether or not there were any consultations with the community of Rankin Inlet with respect to locating a very large correctional facility in their community?
They had been inquiring about it for quite some time. I believe at the time when Nunavut was created there were some motions passed with a reflection towards getting a correctional facility in Rankin Inlet.
So this is consistent and we’re doing studies right now on the possible location in Rankin Inlet and working with the community.
When the Baffin Correctional Centre was originally planned, and constructed, I read the background on it, it was too small at the time.
It was already too small before it was built, and then over the last 20 years or so, it’s proven that it was too small, and it’s created all kinds of problems for the community of Iqaluit, and the Northwest Territories, and now Nunavut.
With that in mind, can the minister give us some indication of whether or not the new facility will be planned and designed with the next 20 years in mind so that it will be able to accommodate possibly the increased growth of crime in Nunavut?
Yes, we are contemplating that. We hope that we don’t get there, but with that in mind, the design of the facility will be a modular facility so that it will be easier to add on expansions if and when they are required.
So, we have that in mind for the future if we need to. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Can the minister tell us how many beds this facility will have? Or, in other words, how many inmates will this facility accommodate?
We haven’t finalized those details yet. More studies need to be undertaken but that is happening now.
We’re looking possibly at a range between 36 to 48 additional beds at this point, with more possibly...as I said, it will be modular construction design so there may be additions in the future.
Can the minister tell us what the plans are for the older Baffin Correctional Centre when the new facility opens?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) The correctional centre will continue but there may be a focus…like there’s a lot of remand inmates at the current facility so there may be an expanded role there.
And quite a few of the offenders all come from the Baffin region as well so it will hold primarily Baffin inmates.
So there’s a lot of ongoing use of the current facility for future plans.
We’re learning as we go along here, that the new health facilities, in Cambridge Bay, in Rankin Inlet, and possibly here in Iqaluit have to be staffed by professional people and a lot of them had to come from outside Nunavut.
One of the problems of getting those facilities fully operational is housing.
So my question is; in Rankin Inlet when they open the new facility will there be adequate housing to house the people that will have to work in that facility.
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) We’re hoping we will hire a lot of local employees and we’re working with the College to work on training, future corrections officers, so that we can hire as many local employees as possible.
So hopefully it will all be local and so that we don’t have to look at housing as much as we do here.
Will the opportunity be given to the current employees at the Baffin Correctional Centre to transfer to Rankin Inlet, if they wish to work in that facility?
I don’t know what the outcome will be; we’ll get there once we all determine that.
The primary focus has been to try to hire as many local employees as possible.
The current facility that is in operation now will continue so we’re paying a substantial amount now to NWT and Ontario to house inmates.
So I’m sure that those savings will be passed on for the operation of the Rankin facility.
Can the minister clarify for me again, are you saying that no employees of the Baffin Correctional Centre will lose their jobs as a result of this new facility opening and that they will be given opportunities to transfer, if they are there, to Rankin Inlet?
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Peterson. Minister Okalik.
As I said the current facility operation will continue.
The focus may change, like there may be more remand inmates, but there will be an ongoing need to have guards in the facility. So that will not change when we open another facility.
We’re doing that now. We’re doing that now in NWT and Ontario, we’re paying for those services.
So the current facility will continue, but instead of putting inmates in NWT and Ontario we will be putting them in Rankin Inlet and running those programs for those inmates.
That’s why we are trying to repatriate some of these inmates so we can treat them with our own programs.
Can the minister give us some information on what the current percentage of the Baffin Correctional staff are Inuit?
Hon. Paul Okalik: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Currently they are at about 22 percent.
By next week they will about 29 percent.
So we are making a significant change in that, and our goal is to have a representative workforce in our department as elsewhere in the government.
I believe I read somewhere that the target date for the opening of this new facility will be 2011.
A question for the minister, can the minister tell us what plans his department has in place, or will have in place to train a representative work force to work in the Baffin Correctional Centre and in the new facility that opens in Rankin Inlet by that year, 2011.
Hon. Paul Okalik: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We are currently working with the college as I said earlier, and we are working with our sister territories on how we can get more Inuit trained in Corrections. So that is at a tentative stage because we need to improve our numbers.
And in addition, we are hiring a training specialist in this area that can work on this on an ongoing basis.
I thank the minister for that answer. $1,500,000 has been budgeted for 2007-08, can the minister give some clarification of what that money, or what exactly that money will be spent on in the next fiscal year.
Hon. Paul Okalik: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. They are primarily for planning purposes, and we have to identify the site where the facility will be. Once it is identified we have to prepare the ground so that there will be a foundation for the building.
Can the minister clarify for me, is there going to be an announcement that this facility is going to be located in Rankin Inlet, I ask that question because there was an announcement of the trade school, heritage center, and cultural school in the last year, in various centers. So I am wondering if there will be an announcement about the new correctional facility opening in Rankin Inlet.
That’s the plan, but we have to have a good idea of the structure, we have an idea of the location, but we have to have detailed plans in place and how it is going to function before we announce.
So that is what we are trying to do with this money for this year, so we could be in a position to announce formally our plan and how it is going to work.
I would like to get an update from the minister on the men’s correctional healing lodge that we approved in the capital estimates for Kivalliq in the 2006-07 capital estimates.
I believe we approved $2,372,000 and it was supposed to be 20 to 24 bed men’s correctional healing lodge.
I am wondering if the minister can give us some idea of whether a community has been selected for the new men’s correctional healing facility.
In light of the challenges that we’ve had with Kugluktuk, we decided to refocus our efforts in setting up the correctional centre and focusing on that for now.
In light of our overall fiscal situation as a government we decided to focus our energy on areas that are immediate. So that’s why we decided to delay that part for another three or four years, because the focus right now is overcrowding, and we have to address that and plan for it.
But, when time permits, when the correctional facility is out of the way, then we can refocus our energy on that.
That is surprising, that information.
I would have thought that this would have been a priority project for the Department of Justice for the Government of Nunavut.
As my colleague Mr. Mapsalak mentioned earlier, these small healing lodges in the smaller communities can often times probably be better for some of our inmates in Nunavut than a large facility.
I guess I’d like to seek some commitment from the minister that this is not an initiative that is going to drop right off the table, that it is an initiative that will be pursued very vigorously by the Government of Nunavut in the coming years to have facilities in the smaller communities.
I didn’t clearly hear a question but, Minister Okalik.
Hon. Paul Okalik: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I said, we’re facing a different fiscal situation than where we were a year ago and we’ve had to refocus our efforts on where we need them the most.
And, unfortunately we’re very much in need of a facility to repatriate inmates so we can focus programming within the territory. And, for the time being, we have to focus on that now, today.
And, yes, there will be an ongoing need for an additional healing facility, but at this point our focus in our fiscal situation does not permit us to deliver as much as we would like in some situations.
Can the minister explain to the committee, you’ve mentioned the repatriating inmates from federal facilities to Nunavut.
Along with that repatriation comes the responsibility to Nunavut for Nunavummiut and the inmates that the proper counseling and healing programs will be available to the inmates.
Can you explain to the Committee of the Whole what programs and services will be available to the inmates so that they receive proper counselling and healing so that they can be allowed to go back to their communities if they so wish?
Hon. Paul Okalik: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe we are dealing with capital, not operations and maintenance.
I didn’t realize the minister was getting so testy.
He mentioned repatriation and the facilities, so I thought I would take the opportunity to ask the minister to share with the Legislative Assembly and Nunavummiut what his plans are to provide counselling, training, and education to inmates in Nunavut.
I’ll ask him again; can he provide that information?
Hon. Paul Okalik: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’ll deal with that when we deal with operations and maintenance.
The minister will probably be dealing with it in Question Period in the coming days, so we won’t have to wait that long.
The question on the new justice center, did the new justice center come in under budget, on budget, or over budget.
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): On budget.
Can the minister explain to the committee what the plans are or what happened to the old courthouse facility?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I understand that Community and Government Services is managing that now, and utilizing it for other purposes.
We are on Page E-9. (interpretation ends) Justice.
Total Headquarters Region. $1.5 million.
Chairman: Total Tangible Assets. $1.5 million.
Chairman: Page E-10, it is an information item.
Go back to Page E-4.
Details of Expenditure.
Total Capital Expenditure. $1.9 million.
Thank you, Minister and your officials, Mr. Weber, and Mr. Dingle.
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): I would like to thank all of you, and have a good evening.
Yes we had a great day.
I would now like to ask Minister Picco, the Department of Education, the Minister of Education, to make his brief opening remarks.
Bill 26 – Appropriation (Capital) Act, 2007-08 – Review in Committee – Education
I am very pleased to be here today to discuss the proposed 2007-08 Department of Education capital projects budget.
The Department of Education 2007-08 Capital Budget is, again, a strong budget with a proposed expenditure of $23,395,000 in 2007-08.
An additional project budget totaling $66,024,000 for 2008-09 between 2011-12.
Mr. Chairman, the 2007-08 budget allows the department to undertake nine projects.
This plan includes final design leading to the construction of Nunavut’s first trades school. The specific program details are currently being refined by Nunavut Arctic College in conjunction with my staff and that of the Community and Government Services.
We remain committed, committed Mr. Chairman, to entering the construction phase in the 2007-08 fiscal year, with a trades training presence in Rankin, as well as Cambridge Bay and Iqaluit, under campus program offerings.
Mr. Chairman, over the past seven years the Department of Education has developed and utilized a comprehensive school facility database which has enabled us to set the priority for each project based on rankings on the current facility’s condition, utilization and program requirements.
The department continues to gather information from hamlets, District Education Authority’s, school operations, Nunavut Arctic College, Community and Government Services as a fundamental part of developing, planning, and managing our portion of our Government of Nunavut Capital Plan.
Mr. Speaker, the department persists in moving forward in a progressive and fiscally responsible manner.
This proposed capital plan includes an equitable balance between school and college requirements and therefore will provide Nunavummiut with the best affordable education facilities that this government can offer.
Construction will be ongoing in the communities of Coral Harbour, Gjoa Haven, Iqaluit, and Rankin Inlet during the 2007-08 construction years.
We continue to assess bussing requirements and are adding student transportation replacement and provisions for communities across Nunavut. We have identified a bussing budget that recently supported Sanikiluaq, Kimmirut, and Igloolik and scheduled bus replacements are being developed to service this territory over the next five years.
We have emphasized principles of Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit in our planning and design as well as supporting multi-purpose facilities, partnerships, and student training as fundamental elements in our construction contracts.
The department’s capital plan for the next five year cycle will continue to make a great difference in the provision of educational infrastructure here in Nunavut.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to emphasize that the delivery of the capital programming remains focused on delivering projects and not the budget.
With limitations on funding it is imperative that this fundamental management approach delivers the greatest project value to the largest number of communities in the most expedient manner.
An example was the recent tendering for Gjoa Haven school renovations. Mr. Chairman, we only received one bid that exceeded the budget by almost $23 million.
This may seem incredible and we are re-tendering to achieve better value. Our analysis indicates the high bid was not due to a complex or extravagant design, but a current construction environment where there is a higher demand for trades staff than can easily be filled.
We are grappling with these rising costs and trying to meet the budgets, which is also affected by Nunavut’s complex construction environments.
Our communities identify many requests for both new facilities and delivering projects quickly. For example, my ministerial colleagues and I are well aware that there was a request to move school projects in Qikiqtarjuaq and Sanikiluaq forward more quickly than the last capital plan. Unfortunately, with limits of total capital funding and the need to be fiscally responsible it is not possible to further fast track capital projects.
In the interim steps are being taken to assist schools until projects can be fully delivered. Again, I emphasize that this government is delivering projects as quickly as possible and in a fiscally responsible manner.
As all the members know we must work within the budget framework and there are significant implications to already higher project costs.
The additional issues include costs for more staffing; associated housing requirements; building utilities, and ongoing maintenance.
All of these issues must be considered when we want to either create new facilities or add existing structures.
Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to be here today to discuss the Department of Education’s capital budget for 2007-08 and the subsequent four years. I look forward to the questions from the members, comments, and discussion.
As the Co-Chair of the Standing Committee on Health and Education, I am pleased to make some opening remarks as we begin deliberations on the 2007-08 Capital Estimates of the Department of Education.
The department’s proposed capital budget for next year represents the largest share of the Government of Nunavut’s overall capital spending.
The Department of Education will account for just over 25 percent of the entire capital budget for 2007-08.
The committee fully agrees that this investment in infrastructure is critical to supporting the safe and effective delivery of education services across Nunavut. It is an investment in our future.
The committee has noted, however, that the projected total costs for many capital projects have increased significantly from one year’s capital estimates to the next.
In five out of eight projects, the projected overall cost estimates have increased from last year’s estimates by an average of over $4 million for each project.
While committee members recognize that this is due to such factors as a 20 to 30 percent rise in the price of construction materials and services, changes in safety codes and such unexpected discoveries during extensive renovations as mould, this trend is troubling.
Another trend appears to be developing with respect to the frequent transfer of significant amounts of funding from one project to another to cover unanticipated cost increases.
The committee recognizes that the department’s capital planners are faced with the combined pressures of meeting community expectations within a specific time frame and providing completed projects within budget limitations.