EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Which of the ships or carriers have already received a contract to ship construction materials to the Kivalliq region?
Hon. Patterk Netser: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation) We will use the carrier that has a standing contract with the Nunavut Housing Corporation to deliver the construction materials.
However, Mr. Scott can clarify which of the carriers will be used to deliver these materials. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
Mr. Scott: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Housing Corporation uses the approved GN carriers and I believe that that contract has been extended for another two years.
I don’t have the list of the carriers that service which communities with me here, so I’m not sure which ships. I think it’s the NEAS ships that service the Kivalliq region, but I’m not sure myself.
It is obvious that you should have that information as opposed to us regular members.
For the past two years, NSSI has been the main shipping carrier delivering cargo to our communities. The scow (barge) used to deliver cargo to Baker Lake and it usually passed through Arviat and this is the historical carrier. However, this is the first time we have heard about NEAS delivering cargo to the Kivalliq region this summer.
They have made a public statement that they will be doing so this year, but I don’t know if they hold any contracts with the government. It would be quite beneficial to get more information on the company. NTCL delivered cargo that was left behind after being shipped via Churchill last year or diverted cargo that all of a sudden had to be shipped to our region last fall.
Can the minister provide details on which carriers the Government of Nunavut will be using?
Further, the carrier that has a standing contract with our government, which I believe was stated as being extended for two more years, we would like to get a breakdown of the details so that our constituents can know which carrier to use, especially the local housing organizations and the private homeowners who are expecting materials. Further, where will these materials be shipped from?
I would also like to get information on the construction contractors or alternatively, the transportation carriers who hold the contract to deliver the materials to our region, since our people want to know more about the sealift carriers and which are the sponsored contractors.
Can this information be provided in a written format, even if it means that it cannot be provided immediately? Can you give this to me at a later date?
Before the shipping season opens, I will let the member know exactly which carriers will be going to the Kivalliq to deliver the NHC materials. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
We have heard since last year, it was quite difficult and although it was not on purpose, we have had issues with materials going to the wrong destinations, such as this community’s materials being sent to another community.
Some of the materials even had to be reshipped via cargo planes and it caused a lot of headaches with the various contractors who were supposed to build the houses.
Due to this reason, prior to this summer’s shipping season, can we expect that the housing materials will all be included this year?
It was a logistical nightmare last year, even to the point where some of the Sea-Cans shipped up were full of the wrong kind of materials, such as the wrong kind of lumber. We also heard that there were no finishing materials, or in some cases, no foundation materials. On top of that, the lumber was just stacked in the Sea-Cans with no warehouse in which to store them.
We heard of all of the problems that occurred last year. Perhaps you have learned from last year’s mistakes to ensure that the materials destined for the communities will not be mishandled or misplaced but will reach the right destinations this year.
Can we expect a better handling of the materials this year? In regard to the materials that are to be shipped to our communities, can the minister inform us that this year’s shipments will not be as problematic as last year and that all of the materials scheduled to go to the communities reach their destination?
Last year’s situation that occurred with the mistakes and materials being shipped to different communities still requires a lot of follow-up work to plan for this year. We will be able to deliver some of the materials to the communities by airline where there are shortfalls possibly in May, to finish off the construction in the communities.
This coming summer, for the building supplies, we were able to go to Chesterville, Ontario to meet with our contractors and to look at the marshalling buildings and the deliveries that will be done in 2008-09 and for the upcoming construction season in the communities. I think it will be much better organized this coming summer to deliver the materials and I can say to you, Mr. Chairman, that this summer, the materials will be coming in full packages to their respective communities. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
I would also like to thank the minister and his officials.
With respect to L-3, there is only one page here.
It is quite indecipherable as a single page, although I know that you are just transferring these funds to another entity, $112,817,000.
Due to this being Grants and Contributions, it is only a one-pager.
However, as a regular MLA, it is really hard to discern the reasons for these funds and what these funds are planned for.
I am sure that these funds have a purpose for which they were planned, but when you request information from the government, it should include planning documents, such as those provided by other departments’ funding allocations.
I have another reason prior to initiating my questioning.
The Nunavut Housing Corporation has never provided a report to the House, except for 2004-05 unspent funds report which was provided a couple of years later on March 21, 2007.
We tend to get sporadic reports with considerable time in between these reports. Can the minister provide information on the $112,817,000 amount and what it is to be used for?
Mr. Arvaluk, a lot of detail starts on page M-IV-1.
Hon. Patterk Netser: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation) You provided the partial answer to his question, Mr. Chairman.
Perhaps after the member has had a chance to digest this information, he can pose another question on the details that he wants. The members should have a copy of all the information in regard to the breakdown of the funds we wish to expend this year. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
What I’m trying to say is that in these pages of our business plan here, I would like to see some background information but I’ll just pass over that issue and raise another question.
I would like to mention that a report has not been tabled for 2006-07.
The Nunavut Housing Corporation has stated that they were going to undertake certain activities in 2006 and the minister wrote a report that they will be trying to keep pace with the reporting requirements.
I would like to ask: what is the reason why the 2006-07 annual report not been tabled?
Our finance comptroller is working with the OAG concerning the 2006-07 reports and they are still working on it.
Perhaps Mr. Whitworth can elaborate more on this matter that the member has raised, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
Just to inform the member, starting in 2005-06 and 2006-07, we are now required to consolidate 21 LHOs in 2005-06 and 22 in 2006-07, which is quite a task.
We are currently just finalizing up the audit with the OAG.
They are now taking a break, they are currently doing an audit on QEC, and hopefully, they will be coming back in April.
After they come back within a month or so, we expect to finalize our audit that we will get signed off.
Once we have signed off, then we will proceed to have them translated.
So that’s our process, but most of the delay has been because of the consolidation.
Does this mean that the Nunavut Housing Corporation can state that the next annual report outlining the activities of the corporation will not be late?
According to his statement.
Hon. Patterk Netser: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation) The person on my left stated that the Housing Association activities will have to be included in this report but we cannot say whether the report will be on time, since he stated that this is a complex process. (interpretation ends) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
In answering questions, please give the exact names of the organizations.
I didn’t hear exactly who he is referring to; which organization was he talking about?
Chairman (Mr. Barnabas)(interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Arvaluk.
Hon. Patterk Netser: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation) I thought I said the name.
The local housing organizations are what I was referring to, and their activities should be put into one report. Mr. Whitworth stated that it’s going to be more difficult to put them all into one report so we cannot say that we will work faster on these reports. (interpretation ends) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Netser.
The members asking these questions would appreciate responses. (interpretation ends) Please give the exact name of the organizations.
That’s to your officials.
I’m asking your officials to address the exact names.
Your business plan indicates that the corporation’s RFP for the development of a new housing strategy closed on September 20, 2007 and it also indicates that the draft housing strategy is expected in March 2008.
The Nunavut Housing Corporation will submit the final strategy to Cabinet for approval in the late spring of 2008 and expects to begin implementation in the fall of 2008. What company was awarded these contracts and how much is it being paid to do this work?
Hon. Patterk Netser: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation) With respect to the member’s question, we’re a little bit behind on the report and we will complete it in the fall. Nuna Burnside is the company we have contracted for this project. Perhaps Mr. Scott can elaborate on that RFP. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
We’re still under discussions on the scheduling and planning of the completion of the report but the company that we are dealing with is called Nuna Burnside. The expectation is that the report will be completed by the fall of 2008 and should be available then for either tabling or a review by the standing committee or the Legislative Assembly.
Mr. Arvaluk: During the Legislative Assembly’s recent review of the Nunavut Housing Corporation capital estimates last fall, MLAs expressed concern that the development of the GN Housing Strategy should not be driven entirely by consultants who do not actually live in the territory. How is the Nunavut Housing Corporation addressing the concerns of MLAs in the area? How will the strategy be different from the Public Housing Trust delivery?
Is it similar in that? You will be involving the housing associations. Would that work?
I would like Mr. Scott to answer that question.
Part of the work plan that we are discussing with the company is developing consultations with various stakeholders that would have an interest in the housing strategy and that would involve, in particular, some of our local housing organizations in the development of that.
Your business plan indicates that one of the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s priorities for 2008-09 is to conduct “a Housing Needs Study in 2008 to identify the number of bedrooms and the number of people resident in each housing unit in Nunavut.
NHC is currently considering a proposal from the Nunavut Association of Municipalities to undertake this work and expects that interviewing will begin in January 2008.” As of today, what is the status of this initiative?
Mr. Scott will answer that question.
The status of the needs study that we are planning is still in the discussion stages with the Nunavut Association of Municipalities as well as Stats Canada.
At this point, it’s anticipated that the first phase of the needs study which is the development of the questionnaires and the methodology for the needs study will be done this spring and early summer. Collection of data will take place in the fall after the summer camping season and then it would allow the wintertime for Stats Canada and the Nunavut Stats Bureau to assist in the compiling of the data and doing the analysis.
This will be my last question. If the Nunavut Association of Municipalities is going to be involved and working with the Nunavut Housing Corporation, exactly how much would NAM want to be paid by Nunavut Housing Corporation to be part of the compilation and the analysis?
Hon. Patterk Netser: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation) We’ve had discussions with NAM but they have quoted a rather large sum, so we are unable to reach an agreement yet. (interpretation ends) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
At this time, we will take a 30-minute break.
>>Committee recessed at 17:57 and resumed at 18:30
Chairman (Mr. Evyagotailak): Thanks for returning.
Page L-3.
Mr. Peterson: I’m not going to let you guys get off that easy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the minister and his officials for coming today.
We have been asking the Government of Nunavut for at least four years, it might go back a few years before that, about a P3 policy, public-private partnerships, and the government has indicated that they are working on that policy, and perhaps they will table it later this year. I’m wondering: has the Nunavut Housing Corporation considered the concept of a P3 policy to help them deliver housing in Nunavut?
I understand that we had been discussing this with the federal government some time ago. Lately, not much has been brought forth to the table but we know they’re open to that.
Can the minister provide a bit more detail on what the extent of the discussions have been with the federal government on a P3 for delivery of housing in Nunavut?
Hon. Patterk Netser (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) My president can elaborate on that question.
As the minister indicated, there haven’t been any recent discussions and ones that we did have with the federal government were before his time as our minister.
The former Minister of Housing with the federal government, Joe Fontana, when we had discussions with him, he arranged to set up discussions and meetings with the federal P3 Secretariat, or whatever it was that they called it.
So we had a couple of sessions of briefing of what the issues were regarding the housing in Nunavut - what the demand was, what the requirements were, and what’s the total cost - we were talking then almost $2 billion in investment needed to address the housing situation here in Nunavut, and then we advised them of the revenue stream that is received or collected from our public housing portfolio.
After that, we never heard back from the P3 folks at the federal government; they never responded back.
Mr. Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the minister and Mr. Scott for that answer.
Do you think that P3 policy or strategy might work in Nunavut from the perspective of Nunavut, irrespective of what the federal government thinks or however they react to ideas like that?
Hon. Patterk Netser (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) To Peter Scott.
I guess I would have to have a look at the policy that’s being developed or once it’s completed to determine if it will actually work in addressing the housing situation here in Nunavut.
We have had, recently, some very preliminary discussions with Nunavut Construction on potential P3 projects, again it’s very preliminary and there really are no details on that initiative available yet.
When I was reading through your business plan, I didn’t add them up but there are references to housing needs, studies, strategies, and all kinds of initiatives to try and make the case that we need more housing in Nunavut.
I, for one, don’t understand why you had to make such a big case in Ottawa when the evidence is there already.
You have talked to your counterparts in Ottawa and Mr. Scott’s talked to his counterparts, and they have studied the north and they travelled up here, and yet, the Housing Corporation has to keep generating more reports, more studies, more strategies, and coming up with more information. I just, for the life of me, don’t understand where that information is going and who’s reading it that they can’t see that there’s a pressing need up here for housing.
You mentioned in your opening comments that the minister is coming up here, I think you said April 2, for meetings. So I’m wondering if the minister could tell us, the House, what the federal government’s current position is on providing funding for housing in Nunavut.
Hon. Patterk Netser (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) It’s no secret that we need $1.9 billion to address the housing needs that we have here in Nunavut and the $200 million that we currently have will be spent in the next couple years. Until the federal government comes to the table, then it will be very slow for us in addressing the housing crisis we have in Nunavut.
The member is correct that we will be going down to Ottawa on April 2 to meet with Monty Solberg to voice our concerns again over the housing strategy.
Like I said in my opening comments, we were recently in Chesterville for the opening of the marshalling contract we have with them.
The contractor did a preliminary, very short study on what the cost of the program was and I think it’s about 60 percent of the funds that stay south of the territory.
When the feds put money into the housing project, then all of Canada gets the benefits of the program. So that is what we’re going to say to the minister when we meet with him on April 2.
The minister mentioned the $1.9 billion in federal funding is required for housing in Nunavut. How realistic is it for us to expect the federal government to provide this amount of money?
That is a very good question: how realistic is it?
He knows the answer better than I do.
We are grateful for whatever money, if any, the federal government will provide us to address the housing needs in Nunavut.
I recall from the Ten-Year Inuit Housing Action Plan that there was a need for almost 4,000 housing units in Nunavut, so there’s a huge demand.
I know in my riding, we have 50 individuals and families on waiting lists seeking housing and there are similar lengthy waiting lists in all the communities.
I know you said you’re grateful for any money that the federal government provides but if you have this requirement and there’s an urgent demand for housing, even if the federal government isn’t able to or doesn’t want to provide any funding, then what is the plan for the Government of Nunavut or the Nunavut Housing Corporation if we will ever see the funding that we’re seeking?
Hon. Patterk Netser (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I understand before the federal government gave us the $200 million Housing Trust Fund, we were receiving $5 million a year and we know $5 million doesn’t go very far, so we would like the federal government address the housing needs as it’s a national crisis.
I think that the funding that you referred to might be the Canada Mortgage Housing Corporation funding. I think that is set to terminate completely in 2037.
That’s a few years away yet, but we’re going to need more resources.
I think the cost of building houses in Nunavut a couple of years ago was $300 per square foot or maybe higher. I know it’s on an annual basis but I think the number I recall is $20,000 for the Nunavut Housing Corporation to provide all the O&M costs on public and social housing, so it’s quite expensive.
If that CMHC program is expiring, what is the Nunavut Housing Corporation doing to address that issue?
Hon. Patterk Netser (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) The federal government’s responsibility for housing was transferred to this jurisdiction back in 1997 and that is why they have been playing very hard ball to get any money or funding from.
As for the other question, I would like to have Mr. Scott elaborate on that part of the question.
I thought the minister handled both parts of the question quite well, mainly because I don’t remember what the first question was.
To add to what the minister was saying, it’s been very difficult and very frustrating for the provincial and territorial officials at the deputy and ministerial levels to get the federal government engaged in discussions on the housing portfolio of the housing file. As the minister indicated, their position is that the responsibility for housing was transferred to the provincial and territorial jurisdictions starting back in 1997.
The meeting that we held recently in Vancouver was supposed to be a federal, territorial and provincial ministers’ meeting.
It turned out to be a provincial and territorial because the federal minister was not able to come. The meeting on April 2 is an informal meeting between the federal minister and his provincial/territorial colleagues.
On the CMHC funding that is being reduced every year, the further we get into the social housing agreement that we have with Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, every year that we go forward with our main estimates, there’s a component in there to make up for the loss of funding so that it actually then becomes a burden upon the Government of Nunavut to offset that loss of funding.
At the same time, it’s an issue that is very much of concern of almost every other jurisdiction and that it’s one of the key issues that they want to discuss with the federal government is to, if nothing else, then stop the money from falling off the table from the social housing agreements, and at the very least and if not, start reinvesting back into the housing issues and housing concerns across Canada.
Can the minister tell me, when these 725 new houses come on stream to the Housing Trust, where the incremental funding is coming from within his department to provide for the annual operations of those houses?
As I said earlier, it’s roughly $20,000 per house. Where is that funding coming from?
Hon. Patterk Netser (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) Those houses will be transferred over to the local housing authorities or organizations.
The corporation has made a commitment to fully fund the cost of all local housing authorities or organizations and it will be part of the forced growth funding that the government comes up with annually.
It’s probably going to add another $14 million to the annual requirements.
I have some constituents that live in the communities of Bay Chimo and Bathurst Inlet who have houses.
Is there any funding within your department for 2008-09 to provide them with assistance to upgrade and renovate the homes that they live in?
I’m sorry to say not officially.
Could the minister clarify: when he says “not officially,” what does that mean?
Hon. Patterk Netser: To put it bluntly, no.
Mr. Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’m going to read an email I have here from former employees of the Housing Corporation. They say the units in Bay Chimo were built under an outpost program.
As you are aware, these are very basic small units.
These units are not recorded as an asset and once completed, they are given to the group of residents to use as they see fit. NHC cannot just walk away and forget them, however.
That was an email sent to me in response to an inquiry.
So with that information, can the minister tell me, if the employee was saying, “We can’t just walk away,” what did he mean if you were saying that you can’t provide them with any help?
As for the email, I don’t know where it came from or if it came from the Housing Corporation, so I can’t respond to that question.
Mr. Peterson: Perhaps you can help me, Mr. Chairman. Can I tell you who it came from?
Maybe a copy could be given to the minister.
He could have this copy right now.
Do you have a follow-up question to the minister?
Mr. Peterson: Yes, I would like the minister to tell me if the Nunavut Housing Corporation can provide the folks down there with some assistance to upgrade their houses. They require windows to be fixed, doors to be levelled, and stoves to be cleaned.