EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
I realize you have a lot of employees, but this driver just dropped off the patient by the hotel. This was not acceptable. There were a lot of people that saw that happen.
Perhaps the minister can talk to the manager or the drivers to be more sensible to the patients.
Hon. Leona Aglukkaq: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, I will follow up with the contractor for the Winnipeg boarding home to address that particular concern.
It shouldn’t be happening. The contract states that they are to pick up patients from the airport and bring them to the boarding home, or to the hotel where they are staying at.
So I will follow up to see if that has occurred and again it would be helpful for a name so we can follow up directly with the individual as well as the contractor.
Yes, I will find out what the results are from that and I will tell you to whom it happened. I think something has to be done.
Those individuals that have the contract for boarding homes, the manager, the drivers and all other staff should be given a cross-cultural education, as well as the manager.
Because I know that the doctors are taught the culture of Inuit, and that individual is not Inuk, so they’re not really going to respect Inuit ways.
There is an Inuk that has been working there for quite some time and the contractors like her.
The daughter just cried because the non-Inuit contractors were making comments about their Inuit race.
An Inuk can go down to the boarding home to explain that they should not be making racist comments, or for somebody to give them a cross-cultural education constantly, not just once in a while, because if there were no Inuit, then those contractors would not be receiving any compensation.
It goes both ways. We would like to get help from the minister to make sure that there are no racists comments made to Inuit boarding at that boarding home.
I will follow up with the staff on that complaint as well; again it’s the same service provider.
And, in terms of evaluating the quality of service and standards, I certainly take all those concerns into consideration and speak to the contractor for the Winnipeg Boarding Home.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): We know the contractor personally, but sometimes the boarding home in Winnipeg becomes really good when they know that there is going to be somebody visiting, or if I let them know that I’ll be passing through.
They welcome me when I go over there and they invite us to come and talk to them.
As Members of the Legislative Assembly, we wanted to get Inuit to meet with the Inuit employees but this is your responsibility as the minister and because we are political we might go a little bit too far.
So, I would like to encourage you as the minister not to meet with the contractors but to meet with the Inuit employees or one of your officials can go and visit them to have a talk with them.
That’s the Inuit Qaujimanituqangit way.
Chairman: To the comments, Minister Aglukkaq.
Hon. Leona Aglukkaq (interpretation): I thank my colleague.
When he mentioned Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit, when I go to Ottawa for meetings, I usually visit the facility, and I meet with patients as well and ask them how the facility is.
Also, in Winnipeg, I usually Meet with the contractors as well as the patients on the side.
I did the same thing in Yellowknife and Edmonton.
It’s better to see the facility itself with your own eyes, and then meet with all the people.
There are always improvements to be made.
They use Inuit employees, and I usually meet with the Inuit employees as well.
With your concerns, I meet up with Ottawa when the patients are not being well looked after in the facility, although the facility is nice.
Also, the same thing in Yellowknife, when I go down to a meeting, when you go down to the cities, you should meet with the patients as well sometimes.
Chairman: Thanks again, Mr. Curley.
I had a chance to visit the Larga Boarding Home yesterday and I would like to thank the minister because she understands the operation of the Larga Boarding Home in Ottawa.
The people that are staying in the Larga Boarding Home, especially the elders, to find out from them about the Inuit patients; there’s a problem that has to be resolved in Larga Boarding Home, especially for the elders and the patients that just received surgery. The Baffin Larga Home is very small.
The doorways to the rooms are very narrow.
The main doors are okay, it’s just the doors to the rooms that are very difficult for people that are elderly and for people who just received surgery.
That has to be resolved. That’s my comment.
Minister, would you like to reply to his comment?
If I understand correctly, the member is making recommendations to add a ramp, is that correct?
Mr. Barnabas: No, the ramp is already there. I’m talking about inside the building and I’m not talking about the outside doors; I’m talking about the bedroom doors.
The patients, the elders, the patients that have surgery or bone surgeries are having difficulty opening these doors because they’re metal doors.
If the minister can address this, I would really appreciate it.
Hon. Leona Aglukkaq: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will commit to speaking with the contractors to address that issue.
The facility in Ottawa has really outgrown its use and we’re trying to address that, but I will commit to following up to see what we can do to address the member’s concern.
Mr. Barnabas: Thank you. (interpretation) Perhaps it’s not relevant to this page but my question is, there’s some information lacking.
They receive patients that are too many in numbers, I mean the Baffin Larga Home receives too many patients and that manager has to try to find a place for them to stay. They are also not accepting patients when there’s no more room.
Could the minister provide another home where the patient can go?
What I’m trying to say is from the travel agency from Pangnirtung, they have lots of computers that they can work with but there becomes a problem where there’s too many patients coming in to the Larga Home and they have no room for them.
For that reason the manager has to go and look for a hotel for those individuals that are coming in, too many coming in.
The travel agency, with all the technology, should be able to provide ... we’re in the modern age so there should be a communication between the travel coordinator and the Larga Home.
I think the minister should be able to provide another home for patients to go when that place is too full.
We share the member’s concern and have been working with the contractor to try and expand the new facility. We are moving forward in constructing a facility that will be able to meet the number of patient needs right now.
We have a 54-bed facility and on average we have 90 people in Ottawa. The contractor provides an incredible service to people traveling down to Ottawa.
Currently, where there is overcrowding, we put them in a hotel.
That’s the current arrangement that we can work with until we construct a new facility. Hopefully, within the next year or two, we’ll be able to address that.
The issue around better communication, we’ve been trying to deal with. We have a person developing the referral systems working with Ottawa. Boarding homes have to be an integral part of how we do business and how we deal with patients.
Part of the whole patient management and case management includes that boarding home. It’s not a hotel, it’s a boarding home that’s integral in how we provide the service. They need to know better information; what kind of care the person needs ahead of time, and so on.
So we are looking at developing IT system within the facilities for Ottawa Baffin Larga.
Not just there but also the boarding homes here, and so on.
We do recognize the overcrowding in Ottawa and we are trying to address that better.
When we were going to Montreal, the patients down there for medical reasons were allowed to go to museums. Today that is not the case because of the large responsibilities of the staff at Larga they don’t have the time to take the patients to the museums and to go sightseeing and so on.
The only place that they take them to is the stores.
I think it’s very important to take the patients out to see the museums and to do some sightseeing. Is it possible for you, as the minister, to provide funding for the patients, who’ve been down there for a long time, could be taken out to the museums and not just take them to the stores?
They usually go to the stores with their escorts.
I think it’s very important to take them to other places of interest.
The way the program was set up in Montreal was very good for the long-term patients. Is it possible to include that in the programs for the long-term patients?
I will see what we can do to address the member’s recommendation.
Currently that service is not provided under the contract. Health Canada does not cover those types of planning but I will see what we can do to try and address the member’s concerns not just in Ottawa but also with the other areas.
Mr. Barnabas (interpretation): Thank you. That’s it for now.
I just have some questions in relation to the contracts with the boarding home.
They are not new questions. I’ve asked the minister about it in the past, and I figure while we have the officials here; maybe we can get some answers.
It deals with an incident that was outlined in an article that I tabled here in the House.
I guess as the minister indicated, there are always more patients being sent down to Ottawa and Larga. I guess, first off, I would just like to ask what arrangements are there in place when the boarding home is full for patients as far as for accommodation requirements?
Patients are put in hotels.
Is there a requirement that they be put in appropriate accommodations?
Hon. Leona Aglukkaq: Thank you. I would think hotels are appropriate accommodations.
In that particular case that was outlined and I questioned the minister on earlier, I would just like to ask her if the department considers putting an escort along with her mother that’s down for either a knee or a hip replacement, that’s in a walker, on a second floor hotel room with only one bed in it, appropriate accommodations?
First of all, the hotel made the change.
We didn’t make the change. The hotel where the individuals were at had, apparently, prior bookings for that particular room and had made a change. We have looked into that through the hotel but it was the hotel that requested the change in that particular instance.
Regardless of whom you want to point the finger at on that, the contractor is responsible for providing appropriate accommodations.
In that particular case, they were subcontracting the hotel. By sticking them in a hotel, we have an agreed upon rate, I believe, with the contractor, the boarding home.
So how is it that, through a subcontractor like that, a patient could be stuck into a room that in the event of a fire that they would be trapped there? That even happened when the patient went with an escort to go back to the hotel.
The elevator was broken, and the individual asked for help from the staff to help get her elderly mother, in a walker and down for either a knee or a hip replacement, up the stairs, and they refused to help.
So how could that be considered appropriate accommodations, appropriate treatment, on behalf of the contractor, because the contractors are still liable or responsible for providing those services whether they do it themselves or they get someone else to do it.
I would like to ask the minister, how can that be considered appropriate?
As far as I know, in that particular incident, the individual arrived on February 17. The room change was made the following day. This was explained to the escort the previous day.
At that time it was not an issue. I am not making any excuses for housing and travel, or the hotel that the individuals are booked at.
The boarding home, I don’t believe has a contract with the hotel, but provides that service and we cover the cost of that hotel room.
The change was made and we have tried to address that and we contacted the staff in Ottawa and they contacted the hotel where these individuals were booked at and tried to address the issue with the hotel directly.
The hotel management will make decisions in managing their facilities and in that case that’s what took place and the hotel staff were contacted by the manager of the Ottawa boarding home to try and address this situation and that’s the information I have received related to that incident with that person.
I guess if you really get down to it and forget about who made the change for what, under the contract that’s in place, is the contractor responsible to provide appropriate accommodations to the patients and escorts that are out on medical travel regardless of whether it’s at the boarding home or at a hotel?
Is it their responsibility to ensure appropriate accommodations are available?
The reservations would be made by the boarding home with the hotel, which is what took place.
When they were booked in, from what I understand, the next day the hotel management asked them to move to a different room because that previous room that they were in was booked already before their arrival.
The incident took place during one of the busiest times in Ottawa, during the Winterlude. All the hotels are booked up and I understand from the staff of the boarding home in Ottawa, they had a huge challenge of trying to book rooms for people traveling down to Ottawa for medical care during the Winterlude activities in Ottawa.
I understand the hotel had made the change with this particular person because of those issues and it’s at the discretion of the hotels to do that.
Is it acceptable to us? No. But what other alternatives did we have?
There were no rooms in Ottawa and that’s the biggest challenge. We have the overcrowding situation in the Ottawa boarding home; it’s a huge issue for us. We are trying to move forward.
The individuals in Ottawa do the best they can. They have a 54-bed facility and on average there are 90 patients in Ottawa that they try and coordinate hotel rooms and boarding home services, picking them up from hotels to hospitals and so on. They try their best under the circumstances.
In this particular case, that particular person’s incident happened during the busiest time, and they tried their best to address the situation with the hotel.
Again, it’s at the hotel’s discretion to make those changes.
Is it acceptable? No.
When it isn’t acceptable and making excuses, you can make all the excuses you want.
But, it sounds like it is the responsibility of the contractor to ensure appropriate accommodations. What was provided there wasn’t appropriate and that isn’t acceptable.
I believe that a letter of apology should be sent to these individuals for the way they were treated on this.
And, on top of it, when they complain about it because they don’t feel like they’re being treated fairly, that they’re being abused, and I hear the same thing from my colleague from Rankin Inlet, and then other boarding homes where patients don’t feel that they’re being treated fairly.
If an individual stood up and said, “I don’t think I’m being treated fairly” for the way she was being treated, and I don’t blame her for getting upset; I would have too.
The boarding home, after I inquired through correspondence with the minister, through the director of the hospital, get a hold of this individual and inform her that she is barred for 30 days from Larga.
So, what’s the process? And then the article in the paper says they won’t tolerate any abuse. I agree with that, but at what point should the patients and escorts tolerate abuse, and what mechanism do they have to deal with it?
The minister at the time said there are two sides to every story.
There are two sides to every story. It seems like in this case it was inappropriate accommodations, and an individual spoke up about it. They were just accused of being abusive and barred and sent home, and that’s it.
So what mechanisms are there in place when people that are on medical travel, whether they be the escort or the patient, feels that they’re being abused, what mechanism is place for them to deal with it?
The services provided by the boarding homes …boarding homes all have zero-tolerance policies whether that is alcohol or where a staff feels that they are threatened by individuals. The policy that they have is that they make that call as service providers.
As contractors, they make the decisions based on what is happening in the environment to address the matter before them. Ultimately, at the end of the day, the service providers are there to provide a service to all the people that are staying in the boarding home, the patients and the escorts and so on.
If there is a person there that is disruptive, and/or abusive to those individuals, they will act accordingly. That is within their mandate and their authority. So, they make that call.
I don’t make that call. They have to make that call as service providers in dealing with that particular individual or situation at that time, and at that moment.
I have to support that, and ultimately at the end of the day, they have to make the decision, first on their own.
There are issues around abuse, or what not, but also for the best interest of the patients as well as the other residents in the boarding home.
So they make that call to investigate that and go from there.
I know that. That’s not what I was asking the minister. They have a zero-tolerance but is that saying that the patients and escorts have to have all the tolerance if they feel they are being abused and mistreated?
And my question was what mechanism is in place for them to be able to deal with that issue and bring it forward without being accused of being abusive?
The escorts’ or the patients’ mechanism is to contact the regional directors who provide that manage the contract.
Or they can go to their MLA, or they can go to the paper, or contact me, or … there are different mechanisms in place.
If a person wants to file a complaint on the service provider, they are more than welcome to do so.
We will investigate the situation and ensure that we treat both sides; review both sides of the situation and take it from there.
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess having said that, what comfort can we give our constituents ... as you said earlier; you have to accept the word of the contractor … that their concerns aren’t even going to be listened to.
You’re taking cases ... in point this one that I have corresponded to you on.
This individual is sent home and not until after I wrote a letter on her behalf enquiring as to what happened, she gets a phone call saying that she’s barred for 30 days after the letter was received.
When I asked questions about it ... this is the service provider, the contractor’s rule, their word is golden, and that’s it. So it doesn’t really matter what this individual said and what her concerns were. You already said that was inappropriate and unacceptable accommodations.
When you complain about it, ‘You’re being abusive.
You go home.’ What is being done about that? And what kind of mechanism could we put in place to make sure that our constituents don’t continue to get mistreated when they’re out on medical travel?
I don’t think it’s appropriate to imply that every patient is mistreated at the facilities.
Sometimes we have problems with escorts and sometimes we have problems with patients.
It’s not all the time.
We deal with each case on a case-by-case basis but unfortunately, I cannot tell the story, to protect the confidentiality of the patient and the escort, in the House.
The information was investigated and the service provider provided that information to us.
The contractor is QC, Nunasi, Larga is also the contractor.
It’s in their interest as well to provide services to the beneficiaries that go to their facilities.
You can give them calls and complain that way as well.
But I want to reassure the people here, that the people that go to the Larga, or our boarding homes, for the most part, are treated very well by the staff. Sometimes we have incidents and we have to address them, and in this particular case, I’m satisfied that the review was done and the communications took place between the escort and my staff to address the situation in Ottawa.
I understand a conversation took place with the individual, as well as the director here to address and discuss the situation. We heard from the manager of the facility as well on the situation.
So the mechanisms are there to address the complaints and I think, through this process, we have been able to investigate the situation.
Like I said, there are two sides to every story and I cannot discuss a personal file in the House because I have to protect the whole patient confidentiality issue of the clients we provide service to.
I want to reassure the member that we have looked into the situation and have tried to address it.
It’s unfortunate it happened, but for the most part, the service is provided by the staff, and I want to defend the staff of Ottawa Larga because they do good work under the circumstances.
I guess the other question I have under the contract that is in place; is there a requirement for the contractor or the service provider, who ever is delivering the service on the ground there, as my colleague earlier mentioned, to pick people up at the airport, bring them to the boarding home, or the hotel? Is there a provision in the contract that they are required to transport patients and escorts to and from, whether it be the boarding home or the hotel to the hospital?
The boarding homes have set departure times and set pick up times from the boarding home to the various clinics and hospitals every day.
Are those schedules adhered to? Are they posted throughout the facility, and if there were only one individual going, would they say; no, we’re not going because we have to wait until we get more than one person before we go?
Would that be something that is part of their rationale of not going at a certain time? Or are they required to go at those times whether they have anyone or not?
Hon. Leona Aglukkaq: As far as I know, in Ottawa, those individuals are required to go whether they have a patient or not.
Just recognizing the clock, I would like to move to report progress.
We have a motion on the floor to report progress, and the motion is not debatable. All those in favour of the motion.
Speaker (interpretation): Thank you. Item 20. (interpretation ends) Report of the Committee of the Whole.
Mr. Kattuk is the seconder.
Question has been called. All those in favour. Opposed.
A reminder of a meeting of the Full Caucus tomorrow morning at nine o’clock at the Nanuq Boardroom.
Orders of the Day for March 22:
Motion 3 – 2(4)
Bill 9  Second Reading of Bills
This House stands adjourned until March 22 at 1:30 in the afternoon.
>>House adjourned at 20:07
Opening Prayer 627
Ministers’ Statements 627
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery 635
Tabling of Documents 656
Revert to Item 5: Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery 658
Motions 659
First Reading of Bills 674
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters 674
Report of the Committee of the Whole 715
Orders of the Day 715
Thursday, March 22, 2007 627
039 – 2(4): Coppermine River Management Planning (Netser) 627
040 – 2(4): Nunavut Plan to Ban Incandescent Light Bulbs (Picco) 628
073 – 2(4): Victims of Income Support (Mapsalak) 629
074 – 2(4): Reaction to the Federal Budget (Curley) 629
075 – 2(4): In Appreciation of Nurse Gail Redpath (Barnabas) 631
076 – 2(4): Elders and Youth Forum at Baker Lake (Simailak) 632
077 – 2(4): Chesterfield Inlet Science Fair (Netser) 632
078 – 2(4): Above-Ground Pool in Cambridge Bay (Peterson) 633
079 – 2(4): Polar Bears Not Endangered Species (Kattuk) 634
080 – 2(4): Role of Mayor (Picco) 634
099 – 2(4): Measures to Address the High Cost of Living in the High Arctic (Barnabas) 636
100 – 2(4): Funding for Development of Lots (Peterson) 638
101 – 2(4): Delayed Construction of Aqsarniit Middle School – School Year Loss (Tootoo) 641
102 – 2(4): Victims of Income Support (Mapsalak) 643
103 – 2(4): Support for the Families of Sick Children (Evyagotailak) 646
104 – 2(4): High Cost of Fuel for Homeowners (Kattuk) 648