EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
What is the wish of the committee members?
We will begin on page 9.
The committee would like to continue with the Department of Community Government and Transportation - Bill 18 and when we have time, we can begin with the Department of Justice.
Chairperson (interpretation): Can the minister and her officials go to the witness table please.
Hon. Manitok Thompson (interpretation): Yes, Mr. Chairman, we can go to the witness table.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Madame Minister and your officials.
I forgot your officials’ names; can you please inform us again?
On my right is John Walsh, who is my Deputy Minister and on my left is Doug Sitland, Director of Capital Planning, and as well as in the gallery John Walsh’s two deputies, Methusalah Kunuk, along with Shawn Maley.
We’ll get to page 7-9 and 7-10.
I just want to get some clarification at the beginning before we get to that page.
The previous pages that we dealt with yesterday, under 7-6, Qikiqtaaluk Region and 7-9, there is also a Qikiqtaaluk Region totalling 5 million, 460 thousand dollars and also another Kivalliq Region section and there is only 78 thousand dollars and for the Kitikmeot region, we have a total of 4.9 million dollars.
I just want to know why they are separated in that manner.
Why does he ask why they are divided?
Under 7-6, Capital Estimates; there is the Qikiqtaaluk Region, 8.473 million dollars and other regions included, but now under 7-9 we have another Baffin Region, 5.46 million dollars. I just wondered why the Baffin Region has two separate pages instead of having it on one page.
Page 7-6 is for Grants and Contributions, and 7-9 are Tangible Assets.
Under 7-6 it’s Grants and Contributions for communities and under 7-9 Tangible Assets. When you see a line item for Cape Dorset Sewage Lagoon Repairs, isn’t that for the communities as well?
They’re all to be given to the communities but 7-6 deals with Grants and Contributions, 100 thousand and 300 thousand are for Grants and Contributions just in case there are breakdowns of vehicles or what not and for the improvements to arenas; that’s why they’re separate.
Under 7-9, these are to be paid out, but they’re tangible assets for the communities, for the regions, for the communities in the regions.
I think we’re just talking about grants and contributions, and tangible assets are different.
They’re all for the communities; under 7-6, the 100 thousand and 300 thousand are not divided amongst the communities, so this way if there’s a breakdown in their equipment, that’s what it’s for.
Under 7-9, they’re given out to each community and they’re tangible assets.
Mr. Arvaluk (interpretation): Yes, I understand exactly what the minister is talking about, but under 7-8, and from 7-6 to 7-8, these are for grants and contributions.
What about for the Whale Cove sewage and solid waste improvements, 80 thousand?
And when you turn the page to 7-9, Grise Fiord under 5 thousand 37, this is for water supply improvements, they’re all improvements, I’m not really sure exactly what it’s for, but it seems to be for tangible assets and grants and contributions.
But the communities will be looking at the capital estimates, so I just want the communities to know the difference between the two.
One is for water and one is for garbage, they’re all for improvements, too.
That’s why I’m confused.
This is how we report it in our reporting formats of the finances.
All of them are for those communities, for those issues.
Is the member concerned about the formatting of how it’s being presented?
Mr. Arvaluk: On that, how do you differentiate?
The Minister provides both grants and contributions, I guess my confusion here is what is the difference between grants and contributions and tangible assets?
On 7-8, that sewage or solid waste improvement for Whale Cove is 80 thousand.
Another improvement on 7-9 under tangible benefits is Grise Fiord water supply improvement.
How do these differ in terms of what you call formatting? Qujannamiik.
Hon. Manitok Thompson: On 7-6, grants and contribution has a line underneath it after 400,000, and then it just jumps to Qikiqtaaluk region.
We might as easily put tangible assets before Qikiqtaaluk region.
And 7-6, 7-9, we just put the title there or that’s the format used.
I don’t think it’s much of a problem, so much as that is the format of how we, how we’ve been told by finance to put the titles here and there, but the bottom line is, the people will get those projects.
Maybe I’ll have Mr. Sitland elaborate more on the formatting or the difference of projects.
The line items for grants and contributions, are those projects that we undertake via a contribution agreement or some sort of agreement with the community.
It may still be the same types of assets that we construct. The items shown under tangible assets are those items that we construct through normal contracting procedures?
Contracting procedures, in other words, from the department to the contractors without going through the hamlet council, is that how I understand it?
Hon. Manitok Thompson: I think, Mr. Chairman, we will just, uh, I don’t think that Mr. Sitland was finished with his explanation, so I will let him go ahead.
Thank you, if you will allow that?
Chairperson (interpretation): Go ahead, Mr. Sitland.
That’s simplifying it, yes, normally the Department of Public Works and Services lets the contract for all of our projects and we make sure that we continue to involve the hamlet in the decision making process so they are fully aware of all the projects that are going on in their community.
I think the process would be, with the Minister’s second reading of the bill - Hamlets Act and the Cities, Towns and Villages Act mentioning empowerment to the communities.
I know we are still using the same old act, the municipal act that 7-9, and not allowing direct responsibility to the hamlets, in giving out contracts. For example Grise Fiord wants supply improvements and they will be notified from what you just told me, if I understand it correctly, they will know that they have tangible asset, for 10 thousand 326 for 2002/2003 that was done.
But for 10 thousand probably for inspection, if I’m correct but nevertheless the 320 thousand was done and contracted to someone by simply notifying Grise Fiord that they will have the water supply improvements. But they will not themselves be tendering and contracting and hiring a contractor to do that.
Whereas in 7-6, you will give the money to the hamlet and they would actually hire contractors to do their work, like for the Whale Cove sewage and waterway improvements, if Whale Cove wishes.
Do I understand that there are quite a number of projects in the Kitikmeot, Qikiqtaaluk region that you do not directly contribute to the community; rather you hire someone, a contractor to carry out their work?
My staff at the regional level are involved with the hamlet on a daily basis when they are asked and if the hamlet wishes to do some projects in their community we are always available to discuss any options for them and we have those contribution agreements with them.
Hamlets, where they take part, or they take control of the project in their communities, we’re open to those ideas.
We’ve done that in the past, we try to work with the communities unless it’s a specialist job where it needs outside help.
Then we look at all the options and we usually work with the hamlet in terms of their projects.
Mr. Arvaluk: I’m not going to go to 7-10 on the Kivalliq region before we finish Baffin, but I’ll use that as an example. For the Kivalliq region the tangible assets are 78 thousand versus 5 million 460 thousand.
So I’m happy that most of this money is given to the communities and directly contributed to the Kivalliq region, except for the 128 thousand.
But I am surprised that in the Qikiqtaaluk region you still have a lot of control up to 5.46 million dollars in your direct control as to how the contract will be put out in those communities.
I will talk about it even more when we go to the Kivalliq region.
As I said we have a very good working relationship with the hamlets and we try to do what they want us to do.
That is all I can say, Mr. Chairman, that is what we are there for.
The Regional Office and our staff are there to service the hamlets.
We have done some creative ideas with our municipalities.
If any of the municipalities are interested in a project, we will work with them some way to see how we can work with the local businesses in those communities and see how they can benefit.
That is all I can say; that we have had a very good working relationship so far with this.
Chairperson (interpretation): Do you have any further comments?
In supplementary to Mr. Arvaluk’s comments, although we finished page 7-7; there is a total for the Qikiqtaaluk region for mobile equipment and graders on page 7-9.
The Qikiqtaaluk region again it is on page 7-10.
There are many fire trucks; they give out mobile equipment to the Hamlets, municipalities but fire trucks are not given to the municipalities.
How is that separated?
I am not too sure which one he is talking about; could he identify the project number.
Is he talking about the Hall Beach Sewage Improvement and Sewer Truck.
I don’t know where there is an issue of a fuel truck.
Starting from 7-7, Qikiqtaaluk various. From 7-6, the 300 thousand.
At the bottom of the 300 thousand, in the Qikiqtaaluk region, graders, loaders.
When you open the page to 7-7, there is, where was it, on page 7-9.
The fire truck for Hall Beach on page 7-9, the Hall Beach fire truck.
And also still in the Qikiqtaaluk region, on page 7-10, loader.
Yes we will deal with the total Qikiqtaaluk region.
On page 7-10 there is a fire truck in page 7-10.
My question is what is the difference between the two from the other pages to this page?
The way it is formatted, I am sure this is creating confusion, Mr. Chairman, if it is okay with you, I would like Mr. Sitland to respond to that question.
Grants, the line item Grants and Contributions are those assets that we purchase through a contribution agreement.
For the fire trucks, which are shown under tangible assets, the Government of Nunavut has standardized the fire trucks, the design, and what not and as such the department actually purchases the fire trucks through a purchase order.
So it’s shown as a tangible asset because we do not buy it via a contribution agreement.
At the end of the day, the asset is still transferred to the community, so it is still a community fire truck.
Chairperson (interpretation): Are you finished? Mr. Iqaqrialu.
On page 7-9, Cape Dorset, Sewage Lagoon Repairs, 3 million, 300 thousand dollars.
The 3 million dollars is quite a huge sum of money for one community to make repairs.
Perhaps they’ll be making a lake or lagoon.
I would like to get further clarification.
I’m sure they have a sewage lagoon today, because I’m sure all the communities have sewage lagoons and this is a large sum of money as if the Cape Dorset doesn’t have sewage lagoon.
I would like to get clarification on the 3 million, 300 thousand dollars to be used for one community.
Perhaps they’ll probably be making a lagoon and I’m sure that it would cost less than that.
So I was wondering if he could clarify it for me.
In 1999, the sewage lagoon and water pipes broke down in Cape Dorset due to them being too old so we had to repair them quite urgently and the Minister responsible for Emergency Measures almost closed that community using the Health and Safety Act because it was becoming a safety issue.
This 3 million was already expended; is this money going to be used to pay for the one that already has been repaired or is it going to be used for a new sewage lagoon?
Yes, they will start constructing repairs - this money is to plan for 2003/2004 for the design and plan.
If it’s not repaired in Cape Dorset due to environmental hazards, it was an emergency, and I’m sure that they have repaired the old sewage and water lagoon, perhaps they will be making a brand new sewage lagoon aside from the one that they currently use.
Environment Canada, I forgot what you call them in Inuktitut; they almost closed it because it could contaminate the waters and the wildlife so therefore we had to construct a new sewage lagoon there.
I don’t know about it, that’s why I’m asking question.
I was wondering if it cost that much money because I don’t know the real cost of constructing a sewage lagoon.
In the future, they will be making be repairs to the sewage lagoon and it’s going to cost that much just to repair.
I’m sure the funding will be allocated to communities evenly but some communities get more money than the other communities do and it seems they are just going to construct a new sewage lagoon, where would that come from?
Chairman: Ms. Thompson.
This 3 million 300 thousand, part of it might not be used, or they could over expend it but that’s the estimate.
Because the sewage lagoon in Cape Dorset is a large piece of work and it’s going to cost that much in order to follow the environmental and safety guidelines, so that’s how much it cost after it had been surveyed.
As the Minister stated that we have to do things in accordance with federal statutes, that community, after their sewage lagoon broke down, it could contaminate the wildlife.
Perhaps, maybe they will be paying part of the sewage lagoon in that community.
Is that why it costs so much?
As a government at times we think that way but as I had made a statement in regards to this meeting in Ottawa, a meeting with the Minister of DIAND because we have to use the money when we have to bring our assets up to code.
So therefore we had to pay for repairs at the community level when things broke down and we had to pay for the maintenance.
Health and Safety Hazards, whether they are sewage lagoons or the water lake, we have to use our money for the repairs. So that’s how it is, especially when we don’t follow the code, when we break the health and safety codes.
Chairman (interpretation): Perhaps you can hear me from that microphone.
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): Well Community Government and Transportation Department, they do pay for the maintenance of broken down equipment especially when we have to repair them to keep up the code with the federal statutes.
And we have to fund them; I don’t think this is adequate to say that we can spend our own money to keep up with the federal statutes or codes.
Perhaps in your department, in the upcoming years, you can lobby the federal government to make sure that if we’re going to break the laws of federal statutes or codes that they pay for the maintenance.
Chairman (interpretation): Ms. Thompson.
Hon. Manitok. Thompson (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman (interpretation): Are there any further questions and comments on pages 7-9 to 7-10?
Chairperson (interpretation): Total, I’m sorry I forgot to read.
Total Qikiqtaaluk Region 5 million, 460.
Chairperson (interpretation): And still on the same page, 7-10, Kivalliq region, total Kivalliq region, 78 thousand, do you agree?
Kitikmeot region, total Kitikmeot region, 4 million, 945 thousand. Questions?
I do not understand the Inuktitut translation.
I don’t know if it’s correct or not, so I have a question in regards to that.
I did not understand this line item, Joamie Attuqtaujunik Pilirivik, sanitation site works.
Back in 1986, we did a study in Kugaaruk on the dumpsites.
That’s what they’re talking about.
Mr. Havioyak (interpretation): I apologize as I was out for a bit.
Can I go back to 7-12, of the various line items, 30 thousand dollars the one I want to pose a question on is in another area.
When they’re hauling gravel for house foundations and road improvements, because it is only accessible during our wintertime, we have a winter road to the island seven miles out so they can haul gravel to the community.
I just want clarification on how it’s going to be undertaken. If we don’t understand this or if we don’t get clarification on these capital items, it’s very expensive when we have to haul gravel from the island, so I just want some clarification on that.
For Kitikmeot, there’s hardly any gravel areas and our options are limited.
I’m sure that they’re going to have problems in the future in 2002-2003-2004, it’s for the planning stage to find out where they can find the gravel sites.
(interpretation ends) It’s just a study for where there are some options for gravel stores in Kitikmeot, because we’re seeing that there might be a problem for long-term reliable gravel stores in that region.
Mr. Havioyak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and the Minister.
I’m sorry, thank you, Minister.
It’s very good to hear that this 30 thousand is only for studies that have been done for our region, this amount of money that we’re going to be getting.
I would also like to thank you as you are aware of the problem we have.
It’s in Kugluktuk; we have to go out 7 miles from the community to the island to haul gravel from that particular island.
Thanks for the brief.
In general it’s for granular materials.
Chairperson (interpretation): Are you clear on that?
Do you have further questions?
We are on Kitikmeot page 7-11, we’ll continue down to 7-12, total Kitikmeot region, 4 million.
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): Thank you. I would like to get clarification on Kitikmeot region, Cambridge Bay replacement water supply line.
In the Capital Estimates figures, I never seem to have seen that particular line item, so it seems like this is the first time that this was brought forward and it’s going to cost 1 million, 300 thousand dollars.
When did they bring this forward?
The water supply line in Cambridge Bay is 25 years old and it breaks down very easily.
At this time, the population is growing in the community and their water supply line breaks down too often so this was done on an emergency basis because the water supply line kept breaking down due to the age of the equipment along with the increased demand.
It’s likewise in the other communities that way with their water supply line and I’m sure that they are working very hard on attempting to update their water supply lines. So due to strong political support, this money, a little bit over 1 million dollars has been allocated already and I’m sure the other communities could have utilized this funding.
Perhaps the minister can elaborate to me when they came up with this emergency funding?
It was in April 2002 when we started discussing this matter.
Other communities, ever since we started we have been requesting things and we still haven’t seen the requests materialize and this request was made just last April 2002 and it’s going to cost that much money.
I envy the community for being able to get what they want right away.
The other communities have made requests and they haven’t received their requests, I don’t know for how many years they’ve been making their requests.
That’s why I’m making these comments.
Because since I’m from my community and I know Clyde River since I’m a resident of that community and they’ve been trying to build a breakwater but that was stopped and we were trying to work on the breakwater for quite some time. They took that budget line item, it was put to the water supply line replacement in Cambridge Bay, and it seems like this money was taken from other projects and we see that these things are happening when the political will is there.
This was brought forward in April 2002.
What was the procedure used to classify this as an emergency matter?
This wasn’t just brought forward in April 2002.
We found out that there was a need for this when it kept breaking down, that it needed replacement.
The water line needed replacement for quite some time.
Because of the constant breaking of that supply line, we found out that we needed to do it, to repair it. what the member is talking about in regards to the docking facility in Clyde River, we talked about that facility during the Mayors’ conference, and we’re considering it.
Under Mr. Iqaqrialu’s questioning on Cambridge Bay, 507512 and 507530.
I wonder if someone can clarify this matter of the solid waste management facilities and sewage treatment plant in Cambridge Bay?
The solid waste management facility there is quite old so we have to do repairs of fifty thousand and the other one for sewage treatment study, in the amount of twenty five thousand dollars because they have to do a study of the present sewage lagoon.
The other one is for a solid waste management facility and sewage treatment study.
Chairperson (interpretation): Total Kitikmeot region.
Four million 945 thousand.
Chairperson (interpretation): Carried. Total tangible assets.
Ten million 483 thousand dollars.
Department of Transportation.
Branch summary in total Kitikmeot region, 230 thousand.
Chairperson (interpretation): Total grants and contributions, 230 thousand.
Chairperson (interpretation): Turning the page 7-15.
Details of capital.
Tangible assets.
Headquarter region 430 thousand.
Chairperson (interpretation): Approved.
Qikiqtaaluk region, capital, 2 million 805 thousand.
Chairperson (interpretation): Turning the page, 7-17.
Total Kivalliq region, 1 million 195 thousand.
Chairperson (interpretation): Total Kitikmeot region, 530 thousand.
Chairperson (interpretation): Total tangible assets, 4 million 960 thousand.
Chairperson (interpretation): Going back to page 7-4.
On page 7-4, I would like to ask a question, it was a question from the Member for Amittuq. I want some clarification because they don’t have any granular deposits in Igloolik; they have asked for a docking facility.
Is there a study that can be done on granular materials to see if they can access gravel for Igloolik? There was also an accident that occurred in Pond Inlet because they don’t have a breakwater.
I feel those things are very important and will the department do a study on those communities to see if they can build breakwaters for those communities?
Last summer, Allen Johnson, who is one of our staff, went to the communities to do a study on the docking facilities in each community.
And Mr. Chairman, the Hall Beach docking facility will be done, and all those requests have been looked into.
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): The reason I asked the question is because we are beginning to have bigger boats than in previous years.
At that time when we had smaller boats we did not need the docking facilities as much, but now we have to have those facilities because of the bigger boats that we use.
Will the department try to access some money from the Federal Government, because the Federal Government usually contributes towards those types of infrastructure for the communities?
Hon. Manitok Thompson (interpretation): I am sorry.
Yes we try our best to get money from the Federal Government.
We got 500 thousand from the Federal Government, I know that that is not very much for docking facilities and we will try to distribute it evenly to the communities in need.
We are looking for funding as well to be used for transportation.
It is good to hear that they at least accessed 500 thousand from the Federal Government.
Some of the communities are in danger if they don’t have docking facilities.
Have you talked with the Federal Government, the Department of Transportation for the Federal Government to see if they could help out with the docking facilities?
They are getting tired of us because we have asked for some funding on so many occasions.
Methusalah Kunuk knows this.
I would also like to talk about docking facilities.
A lot of communities need breakwaters.
In Resolute Bay the shoreline is far from the community itself and they don’t have any docking facilities.
The wind usually comes from a certain direction all the time and it becomes very windy at times.
They wanted to do a proposal.
I would ask the department if they can meet with the hunters and trappers of Resolute Bay, so the department will know what facilities they need?
Mr. Chairman, my staff have accessed 500 thousand dollars of federal funding.
We will also look for more funding because a lot of communities have asked us for docking facilities.
Now that we have the Nunavut Government, we have to try to help out the communities and what the hamlets can do is talk with their regional offices and do a proposal to build a docking facility.