EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
By that I mean somebody who is actually approving an income support payment should not be the same person who is approving the payment of that payment. So those are the types of things that we are working with Education on.
Another example of a good internal control would be the sequencing of cheques. Cheques should likely all be pre-numbered and they should all be numbered sequentially. Those cheques should probably be put somewhere in safe custody where somebody doesn’t have access to the cheques and write cheques that should be going to somebody else.
Our job, because we’re sort of the experts, if you will, in the financial area in terms of financial management, would be to provide that type of advice.
I want to assure the member that there is no way that we would hold up this project.
In fact, I would say that we’re a fairly strong proponent of the project going forward by Education.
Obviously, it’s to the benefit of our department and the government overall if they can implement the new income support case software.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Ma. I have no other names.
Therefore, C-4. Finance. Branch Summary.
Directorate. Total Operations and Maintenance. $1,227,000.
Chairman: Branch Summary. C-5. Finance.
Policy and Planning. Total Operations and Maintenance. $3,111,000.
I just have a question in the lines of the Memorandum of Understanding and Crown corporations.
The business plan indicates that one of the government’s priorities for the 2010-11 fiscal year is to “Finalize and execute Memorandums of Understanding with all territorial corporations regarding governance, roles and responsibilities.”
When will you table these Memorandums of Understanding in the legislative?
If I may, Mr. Chairman, what direction is the government giving to Nunavut’s Crown corporations and agencies?
If I could ask Mr. Aupaluktuq to reference us to the page he is asking a question about in the business plan.
Mr. Aupaluktuq: That is C-5, the draft main estimates under the Policy and Planning for the 2010-11 fiscal year.
I apologize for… we’ve got lots of paper up here and we have to shuffle through.
It’s priority 3, “Finalize and execute Memorandums of Understanding…” The MOU templates exist and the plan is already in our new fiscal year to get those out.
Due to staff constraints in 2009, we weren’t able to move very quickly on those, but we’re hoping to table those Memorandums of Understanding as soon as possible.
I believe that in your opening comments, you might have made a reference to the one that we should table.
We do pay serious attention to those opening comments.
I want to thank the hon. minister for that response.
As of today, what’s the status of the government’s action plan to address the financial management problems of the Nunavut Business Credit Corporation and when do you anticipate that it will receive a clean audit opinion from the Auditor General?
I thank Mr. Aupaluktuq for the question.
The Department of Economic Development and Transportation has the lead for implementing the recommendations on the action plan.
Just for clarification and for the record as well regarding the Nunavut’s Crown corporations and agencies, you mentioned you would be tabling soon enough and that includes the Qulliq Energy Corporation, the Nunavut Development Corporation, and the Nunavut Business Credit Corporation. Is that correct?
Is that on page C-5 in the business plan?
Mr. Aupaluktuq: Yes, that was just a follow-up question under C-5, the main estimates in regard to the Nunavut Crown corporations and agencies.
I just wanted verification for the record if those Crown agencies and corporations were, in fact, the Qulliq Energy Corporation, the Nunavut Development Corporation, and the Nunavut Business Credit Corporation.
Yes, they are Crown agencies and they also include any other public agencies.
Mr. Arvaluk: I just need clarification on Mr. Aupaluktuq’s question.
Did you say that templates are made and are now available for MOUs with those Crown corporations? Did I hear that correctly?
Yes, the templates and letters exist. We just have to fill in particular information that we would include in the letter.
Not the MOU itself.
The MOU… well, I was a little confused because if you have templates for three different Crown corporations, your expectations on performance are probably different from each other.
How do you make a template that fits all? I guess that’s what I was confused about.
I guess one clarification is that the MOU actual letters will be different for each organization, for each corporation or Crown corporation, but the template will consist of mostly numbers and figures that you expect them to perform on. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Although it’s a template, there are some common items to all of the Crown agencies. For example, quarterly reporting and budgeting information.
I’m not sure if this has been asked, but I didn’t hear or maybe I misheard it.
When you finished those templates with the MOU with these Crown corporations for the Qulliq Energy Corporation and the Nunavut Development Corporation, when will you table these through the Legislative Assembly?
I thank Mr. Arvaluk for that follow-up question.
We would like to table them as soon as possible, even possibly as early as the June sitting or if not by then, certainly by the fall.
Chairman: Thank you, Minister Peterson. I have no more names.
I believe the activity, Policy and Planning, deals with support for the Nunavut Liquor Commission and it’s responsible for liquor enforcement and inspections.
As I have stated many times, I live in a technically dry community. My question, Mr. Chairman, to the hon. minister is: during your appearance last year before MLAs, the issue of information sharing with the RCMP was raised. What actions have been taken to increase cooperation between the department and the RCMP to fight the illegal sale of liquor or alcohol, if you will?
We share information with the RCMP with respect to the names of individuals who are receiving permits.
Mr. Ningark: Mr. Chairman, my second question is: over the last two years, Mr. Minister, how much revenue has been received by the government from fines imposed for the violation of the Liquor Act?
Do you still support allocating fines revenue to alcohol education and treatment programs?
As the Minister of Finance, I don’t have that information on the amount of fines. That would be in the Department of Justice.
You will have to ask the Minister of Justice that question.
But to answer the second part of your question, I know I used to ask these questions of the Minister of Finance, would he use the proceeds of fines to redirect them into helping alcohol education.
Yes, I still support that. I have talked to my Deputy Minister of Finance about that.
We’re hoping, through the review of the Liquor Act, that consultations will be underway in the next 12 to 18 months.
We will come up with some innovative ideas on how to provide more funding to alcohol education committees and substance abuse programs.
I suggest that you consult with your twin brother.
I was going to say that I am a proponent of departments working together, whatever differences they hold.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Ningark. (interpretation) That was just a comment. (interpretation ends) Did you want to respond, Minister Peterson?
I can assure you that the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Justice do consult quite frequently on issues that relate to alcohol and substance abuse in Nunavut.
My question is in regard to the business plan on page C-5 under the priorities for 2010-11, the first bullet.
I was wondering if the minister could give us an update in terms of the territorial funding formula.
The current TFF agreement arrangement expires in 2014.
We’re gearing up for negotiations. It provides approximately 80 percent of our annual budget, so it’s quite important.
This fiscal year coming up, we’re just fine. We’re a little worried about future years, in terms of the federal budgeting process, if there are any cutbacks.
We hope that the federal government doesn’t attack the TFF for Nunavut or anyone in the north.
Our folks are preparing for the negotiations.
The three territorial departments of Finance for Nunavut, the Northwest Territories, and the Yukon are working with the federal Department of Finance to prepare for those negotiations.
I’m not sure if I heard the minister correctly. Did he say that we receive 80 percent of our funding from the federal government or is it 95 percent of our funding?
Approximately 84 percent of our funding comes through the TFF and the balance of the funding comes from other federal programs.
So just for clarification, 84 percent comes from TFF and more comes through other funding sources, like the Building Canada Fund and those types of funds. Does it actually add up to a total of about 95 percent or do you have that figure?
Yes, it’s approximately 93 percent.
What specific items are the negotiating team asking for?
We have done the review of Health and Social Services and have heard Mr. Campbell saying, in effect, that his budget is not enough or adequate in terms of funding.
That’s something that we would hopefully be asking for. Are there any specifics that we’re asking for?
In meetings we’ve had as well, we were told that health costs are going up and up and up and out-of-territory costs for medical charges for our patients who go out of territory are going up.
Is this something that is being negotiated or is that one part of it?
Hon. Keith Peterson: Sorry, pardon me. It’s a very complicated subject. In the past, we have offered to provide explanations to standing committees.
If Mr. Elliott would like the details of how the whole TFF is calculated, I can ask my deputy minister to provide that information.
If the Chair could initiate a letter or if Mr. Ma could write us and set a time maybe in June, that would nice and I would be willing to attend that.
Again, it’s nice to learn that information.
My question was geared more towards what specific things we are negotiating for.
Are we just going as three territories and saying, “Give us more money”? Are we going and saying, “Well, we need money for ports and waterways because the Northwest Passage is melting. We’re going to have ships going through all of the time.”
Are we going and saying, “Well, repeatedly we run over on our costs for health care. Can we negotiate that?”? I want specifically what you guys are negotiating, not how the territorial formula works.
I’ll take a cut at it. As I said, it’s a very complicated topic.
I think the three territorial governments, in all of the years, are not satisfied with the level of funding from Ottawa.
It is something that we have continued to work with Ottawa.
A lot of it has to tie with what we call a gross expenditure base, which is a component of the territorial formula funding agreement that represents an estimate of the GN’s expenditure needs.
So we have to work very diligently to convince Ottawa that here are our true costs and then we work towards a formula that will give us an allocation that will sustain our future expenditure needs.
Mr. Ma could provide more details if Mr. Elliott wishes.
I think it was a CBC report that was talking about to get some of the things done that we’re talking about in the Tamapta Action Plan that we have to be innovative.
I think one of the things that we never had in the past is that card to play that the world is changing, we already seeing it affecting our polar bear quotas, and that’s the global warming and it’s not going to stop.
All three of our territories are along the Northwest Passage and if the federal government is going to buy in, “Use it or lose it,” now is the time that they need to start investing into our territory.
We repeatedly go back in capital, we don’t have money. We repeatedly go back in O&M, we don’t have money. To me, that’s something I think we should push.
If Mr. Ma could give a little bit more of an explanation, it would be great.
First of all, let me just say that we would be pleased to provide an information session on the territorial formula financing, the TFF.
I think that when we did the original orientation of all new members in the Third Assembly, we did give a bit of an overview.
I think it probably is good for us to give you a refresher course, if you want, in that regard and we will certainly plan towards that in the June sitting.
The TFF is basically driven by three components.
The minister spoke to one of them, which is the gross expenditure base.
The GEB is supposed to be a representative of a comparable level of services and programs that you would get anywhere else in southern Canada and that would be given to all three territories. It’s only the territories that get the TFF.
A second component of that is population growth or decrease.
So we have been, in some ways, the fortunate recipient of more money because of the growth in our population.
The third factor that’s considered in all of this is the capacity of a particular jurisdiction to generate tax revenue. Of course, as you guys have been drilling my poor minister here the last several days, we don’t have a whole lot of capacity to generate additional revenues. So that again works in our favour.
I believe the minister may have mentioned it in his Budget Address and if he didn’t, it certainly was in our fiscal and economic outlook document that was provided as part of the budget documents.
Over the last several years, the TFF has generally grown by about 6.1 percent annually, which I think equivocally would turn out to be about sixty-seven million dollars off the top of my head.
I actually don’t have the figure in front of me. So we have been very fortunate.
The current agreement actually expires in 2013-14 off the top of my head.
Even though that seems like a long ways away, the work and the discussions that have to happen with federal Finance are going to take time.
We certainly learned that in the last go around. I came in at that point very late as the new deputy of finance. I can tell you, it was a very tough, gruelling process, so we’re trying to gear ourselves up.
There’s no specific answer at this point of time in terms of how to move forward, but as the minister has indicated several times, health is a priority obviously within our government. I think members here, our minister, and other members of cabinet have mentioned our infrastructure needs.
So certainly, we’re very aware of the things that have to happen. We have been very fortunate because we have a fairly good working relationship with federal Finance.
I think in 2007, we got the $23 million that we have spoke quite extensively about here to approve our financial management. Part of the lobbying effort that we mounted as a territory resulted in the Building Canada Fund, which helped us in terms of infrastructure.
We were again, I think, fairly successful, us and the other two territories, this year and got the THSSI thing extended for another two years.
So believe me, I think fed Finance is hearing our voice in Ottawa.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Ma. I have no more names. C-5. Branch Summary.
Finance. Policy and Planning. Total Operations and Maintenance. $3,111,000.
Your department’s business plan indicates that its action plan to address the concerns and recommendations in the Auditor General’s 2009 report to Legislative Assembly on the GN’s financial management practices will be implemented over the next three years.
What is the status of the action plan and will you commit to tabling in the Legislative Assembly an annual update on its implementation?
The action plan is well underway and we will commit to providing updates.
I noted in the standing committee’s comments today that they’re going to hold the government accountable for a three-year promise, so I’ll probably pay fairly close attention to the action plan.
Mr. Arvaluk: Also, the 2007 federal budget announced in funding the $23 million to help the GN strengthen financial management. How much of that $23 million is being spent for that purpose?
We don’t have the details with us, but we have spent a considerable amount of that funding particularly on the hardware side.
It’s a different question altogether. I appreciate that. It’s probably used for computer and accounting hardware, etcetera.
The different question is the government’s Tamapta Action Plan, which was tabled last December, I think, indicated that the GN will undertake a functional work review of decentralization, which one is working, which one is not working, etcetera.
How will Department of Finance participate in this review?
The Department of EIA has the lead on that, but the Department of Finance would support the work of the EIA.
As I said earlier, we’re a central agency department, so we do provide support to all of the other departments.
Again, we will go to C-5. Branch Summary. Finance.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you. (interpretation ends) Go to C-6. Finance.
Branch Summary. Financial Management. Total Operations and Maintenance. $3,068,000.
On page C-7 of the department’s business plan under the priorities for 2010-11, the first bullet talks about “Establish and implement a professional training regime to enhance the financial expertise of the territory at all levels.”
Is this to hire a consultant to come up with a plan to train people?
I just wanted to confirm with my official on the question.
This would be an in-house training program that we’re developing.
Will the resources and the expertise for the designing of this come from within the department and the people who are already hired or is an outside consultant being hired to provide that training?
The plan is to do it in-house and there is an individual who is already working in the Department of Finance involved in that.
I just have another question in terms of the training. Is that training going to be linked to a qualification of some sort, like through Nunavut Arctic College or Carleton University?
It depends on who the training organization is linked. I think I had mentioned last year that Algonquin College might be involved and it could be Nunavut Arctic College. It depends who is involved in providing the training.
On June 10, 2009, I asked the minister questions regarding the $2 million that was passed off to the human resources department.
At the same time, I had brought up questions about his department working with the Department of Human Resources to complete a comprehensive human resources strategy.
At that time, there was a commitment to table that in the fall. I’m just wondering why that hasn’t been tabled yet.
He’s certainly been fairly diligent in following up on my promises and commitments.
Mr. Chairman, the reason we had to hire the consultant that he was asking about earlier was to work on the implementation plan and help speed up the process. We hope to be able to table that as soon as possible.
I make lists and lists of promises that the minister is making.
I feel that’s part of my job, holding the government accountable for what they say and the actions that they do.
So thanks for noticing that.
The other reason I brought that up is because on page C-7 of the business plan for your department, the top bullet for priorities for 2009-2010 actually says that the status of that is complete if I’m reading that correctly.
So it will be tabled in the next couple weeks.
Mr. Chairman, the strategy itself is complete and we can table that. It’s the implementation plan that we’re working on.
I have no further names for C-6.
Finance. Branch Summary.
From my opening comments, Mr. Chairman, the Auditor General’s most recent report to the Legislative Assembly stated that “the underlying cause of the Government’s lack of progress on our previous recommendations is its limited human resource capacity.
Simply put, there are not enough qualified financial staff to properly carry out basic financial functions.” What is your strategy to address this issue?
Mr. Chairman, it is no secret, I recall when I was a member that one of the MLAs was asking the government those questions and also asking the Auditor General for her support.
Recognizing that we do have a shortage of CGAs, CMAs, and CAs throughout the government, at one time, we only had 27 throughout the government.
From the MLA side, we were holding the government accountable doing our standing committee recommendations.
Now, as the Minister of Finance, we have followed up on the recommendations. We are providing in-house training.
All of the questions that Mr. Elliott has just asked, we’re particular to that area with what we’re doing in terms of developing an internal training regime.
So we do have plans to find trained and qualified accountants to not only do work in the Department of Finance but will work throughout the government.
Last June, you committed to tabling your department’s human resources strategy in the Legislative Assembly in the fall. Why have you not yet tabled it and will you table it in the next sitting?
We have the strategy.
I apologize that we didn’t table it in the fall. We have it. We have to go and get cabinet approval to table the document and we will table it as soon as possible.
Chairman: Thank you, Minister Peterson. (interpretation) Are you finished, Mr. Arvaluk?
Your department’s business plan indicates that one of its priorities for the 2011-12 fiscal year is to consider consolidating the government’s main estimates and capital estimates.
Does this mean that you’re looking at having both the main estimates and the capital estimates introduced in the Legislative Assembly at the same time and if so, why?
As I responded to that question earlier, it’s in planning. We read the plan and looked at all of the different options.
The answer to his question is not something that we’re considering doing any time soon.
As the central agency and the Department of Finance, we have to look at all of the different scenarios in terms of financial controls and preparing documents, and so on and so forth.
My attempt to finish off C-6.
C-7. Branch Summary. Finance.
Internal Audit Services. Total Operations and Maintenance. $1,176,000. Agreed?
C-8. Finance.
Branch Summary. Comptrollership. Total Operations and Maintenance. $14,160,000.
C-9. Branch Summary.
Finance. Centrally Administered Funds. Total Operations and Maintenance. $34,727,000.
We will go back to C-3. Department Summary. Finance.
Detail of Expenditures. Total Operations and Maintenance. $57,469,000.
Chairman: Are members agreed that the Department of Finance is concluded?
I would like to ask Minister Peterson if you have closing comments.
Hon. Keith Peterson: Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank the committee for their continued support of the Department of Finance.
I would like thank my officials who are here today, Mr. Ma and Mr. Chown, who is in the Gallery, all of the other finance staff in the Department of Finance throughout the headquarters and regions who have worked very hard to prepare all of the capital estimates and main estimates.
As you can appreciate, it’s a lot of work, so they have done a great job.
I would also like to assure the members of the committee that we do take the opening comments from yesterday very seriously, and I was listening very intently to Mr. Arvaluk and Mr. Schell. Reading the reports of standing and special committees has brought back fond memories of when Mr. Tootoo and I had used to do that. It would be quite long.
I’ll be sitting down with my staff reviewing your recommendations.
I assure you that we will take everything seriously and we will endeavour to table all of the reports that you gave asked for.
I’ll have to be very careful with what I commit to in the future, as I’m sure Mr. Elliott will be dogging me at the next appearance.
I mean that with the sincerest respect because it is important for regular members to hold the government accountable and help us to do our jobs to serve all Nunavummiut and to spend the limited money that we have wisely and prudently so that it goes as far as we can stretch it.
With that, Mr. Chairman, thank you.
Chairman: Thank you, Minister Peterson and your official. (interpretation) Sergeant-at-arms, if you can escort the witnesses.
(interpretation ends) I have asked Mr. Okalik to take the Chair at this point for the next department. (interpretation) Thank you.