EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
We want to get everything completed before you lose all your hair too but at this time I apologize that it’s not for this year .
It has been put off for the fiscal year.
It was put over to the next year because there needs to be some planning done. … had to be drawn up.
That’s all I’m able to respond to you at this time.
Perhaps when we go to Gjoa Haven we will be able to meet with the Hamlet council.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Alakannuark.
Also I don’t see any projects for Pelly Bay.
The school in our community received a letter.
I’d seen a letter about that 1998 to year 2000.
There is nothing slated for that community about the school.
So, if you could be patient.
I think they’re searching for what you are talking about.
You were talking about the community hall?
Mr. Alakannuark: Thank you Mr. Chairman.
I’m talking about the school gymnasium.
We received a letter and I saw that letter last winter in the year 1999, year 2000, that they were going to get an improvement or renovations done but I don’t see that in the main estimates.
Chairperson (interpretation): Perhaps the Minister of Education can further clarify you on that but there are no funds.
No funds have been identified this year for specifications for the school gymnasium.
Mr. Alakannuark did you want to ask another question?
Mr. Alakannuark (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Chairman, that’s all I had.
Mr. O’Brien: Just for a point of clarification.
Are we on community government right now?
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. O'Brien, we're on community government.
Projects Kitikmeot.
Keewatin was already passed.
We are now on Kitikmeot section.
You understand now? Mr. O'Brien.
Mr. O'Brien: Mr. Chairman, is it possible to go back to one issue under the Keewatin I have a question on that.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. O'Brien wants to return to Keewatin.
Mr. O'Brien: Thank you Mr. Chairman and colleagues.
Under the Keewatin under Nuvuk Residential subdivision 1.6 million dollars.
I wonder if the Minister could be so kind as to give some details or rationale as to what this project entails.
A year ago there was a new subdivision opened up in Rankin Inlet.
There was buried pipe put in the ground.
The municipality went to the bank, borrowed money to develop that, and I had a letter of commitment in a form of a contract for the government's share this year to offset the difference in the cost between what an average lot cost, for development that is, and what these lots, because they were utilidor lots cost.
So we're honouring that commitment in terms of the loan that Rankin Inlet got to do the full subdivision and to reimburse them for what would have been the Territorial Government's share.
So basically this money is already spent and the work is already completed.
Is this expenditure primarily for utilidor work or is it actual land assembly?
Mr. Ferris: Under the agreement or under the policy that the Territorial Government had for lot development there was an average lot price established and think it was around about 50 thousand dollars.
What they tried to do was equalize the payments that individuals would make to lease a lot within the Territories and beyond that the policy allowed for the Minister of Community Affairs to pay the difference between what the average lot was in the territories versus what the lots cost.
For example, in Kimmirut, because of the hill structure there, the lots are very expensive.
So there has been a subsidy that's been provided out of the capital plan dollars for developmental lots in that community.
There are a few others where the price is beyond what's considered a reasonable price to ask an individual to pay to lease land and that's where this flows out of and that's because of buried pipe.
Buried pipe lot development is very expensive there as it is here in Iqaluit.
This policy, that it seems to me that, I guess cut and dry, somewhat flexible.
Are you saying this policy applies for the people here in Iqaluit?
That there is funding available to subsidize the price of lots but it varies from community to community?
Mr. Ferris: That is how the policy has been applied.
The standard lot price is used and the difference is what the government can consider as a subsidy to a municipality or a grant to the municipality to cover that difference that they're not going to collect back from the individual leasing.
Can the minister tell me what the average, that's the term that you used, average cost of a lot in Rankin is as opposed to the average cost of a lot here in Iqaluit.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Anawak, this is your question.
Hon. Jack Anawak: If he wants to get the fairly good, accurate, dollar amounts then if he can just bear with me, we'll get the information.
Chairperson (interpretation): Last one, Mr. O'Brien.
Can the Minister tell me what the policy is for installing utilidor services in the other communities.
Is there a reason why you just can't have utilidor service, why it has to be only in Iqaluit, Rankin, and who ever else might have it.
Is it in within your policy to expand this beyond these communities?
Hon. Jack Anawak: You have to understand that, Mr. Chairman, we're less than two months old and we haven't developed a policy.
The policies that we inherited are from the Government of the NWT and at this point in time that's the policy we're following.
Chairperson (interpretation): Since this was your last one Mr. O'Brien.
Go ahead however.
That did not quite answer my question.
Mr. Chairman, I was asking what the policy is in relationship to hooking up other smaller communities, putting them on the utility system.
Mr. Ferris: The Minister's right that we haven't had an opportunity to review that policy, but under the existing policy of the GNWT, any community could have looked at utilidor services and over the years that I've been with the government is this region and other communities, Cape Dorset being one of them, did look at buried pipe utilidor services but you have to take into consideration the distance from the water point to the cost of buried pipe and in those smaller communities the price ruled out going with buried pipe or utilidor type services.
That's why it's only in limited communities and mainly in taxed based where they have the ability to raise the additional dollars to cover the costs.
Mr. Tootoo are you asking about Keewatin or do you want to go back to the Baffin Region or Keewatin?
We are currently under Keewatin.
I know exactly where we are.
I think projects or any of the capital any member from anywhere should be able to ask if it effects the capital for the whole territory in this department.
On the, what the deputy minister is saying this covers off a percentage of those costs or the project, could the minister inform us of the 1.6 million, what percentage of the project did that cover?
Mr. Ferris: Mr. Chairman we can provide the member with the cost but that was a project by the Territorial Government.
I'll have to go back to the files to get that.
It seems to me that the cost of land development was close to 3, 3 and one half million dollars but I will produce the information.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Tootoo. Please make your question clear.
Mr. Tootoo: I thought I did Mr. Chairman.
But I'll try and do better.
Could the Minister also again, I'm looking for that information, he indicated that this cost was this year's share.
I guess in the total project he's saying it's 3 million, is that the total project for this year or is that the project cost for this years phase or for the whole project in Nunavut if he could find that out as well.
Mr. Ferris: Mr. Chairman there is no work going on in Nuvuk subdivision this year.
This is an agreement that was entered into between the territorial government, the Hamlet of Rankin Inlet and the bank that they borrowed the money from and this is simply paying the governments share that could have been paid to the Hamlet last year.
The project was complete.
This is a contractual arrangement and that's why when we use the criteria it fit within the criteria.
Mr. Chairman the Minister also said that the policy allowed for what the government can consider.
I know there is three communities in Nunavut with utilidor, Iqaluit being one of them.
Has the policy been used and considered in other communities especially here in Iqaluit.
Mr. Ferris: Mr. Chairman, when a community has a cost and if they want to go ahead with their own funding so that it can go ahead the following year or if they have surplus funds and they want to start it in a given year even though we would pay for it if it wasn't started this year, but if the Hamlet wanted to start it on their own we can do it so that we pay them the following year.
For example if that was done in Iqaluit if they wanted to use old funds for a project the government can look at it to see how much we can help them out with.
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you.
I guess what I was asking is has this policy been used or will it be used in the cost of the lots being developed here in Iqaluit.
The new lots up the hill are when I first saw the price up around 70 thousand dollars per lot.
To me, that's a little more than your average cost of the lot and I'm wondering if the town of Iqaluit come back to the government and ask for that percentage that is the difference between the average cost and the actual cost.
We've already dealt with Baffin Region.
We were in Keewatin, and then we asked to go back to Keewatin and we're just dealing with that one question right now.
Perhaps Mr. Tootoo you can have your own private meeting now that is done but however I'll let Mr. Ferris respond.
Mr. Ferris: Thank you Mr. Chairman, at the present time under that policy tax-based municipalities, because of their additional funding based on the ability to generate their own tax revenue are not covered under that same policy.
Chairperson (interpretation): Does that answer your question?
Maybe you should take some Inuktitut lessons so that when you are bilingual it would be easier for you to understand everything.
Let’s go back to our item on hand.
Do I have to ask for agreement again?
Mr. Tootoo: I don’t know if this is a final order, Mr. Chairman, or not but I don’t appreciate the comments that were just made by the Chairperson.
It’s not my fault I don’t speak Inuktitut. Other members are here that don’t speak Inuktitut…I mean if I wanted to I could say the same thing to you in English but I won’t.
I take exception to those comments and I would sincerely hope that the Chairman would look at the rules of the house and make sure that they’re followed by everybody.
Chairperson (interpretation): Since I’m the Chairperson we’re trying to keep order and we’re trying to get ahead and that’s why I made those comments.
Do we have to get an agreement to go back our normal item?
Keewatin total, 3 million 903 thousand, do you agree?
And now to get back to 7-8, capital for Kitikmeot, total 1 million 163 thousand.
For all of Nunavut, capital total 50 million.
Community government total capital 10 million 833 thousand.
To go back to 7.5, total capital 10 million 833 thousand.
Total expenditures 46 million 755 thousand. 7-9, housing.
Operations and maintenance, total 33 million 243 thousand.
Mr. Chairman, underneath the Operations and Maintenance, here I believe it covers off the contributions to the local housing organizations and authorities here in Iqaluit and those other organizations and all their communities.
Mr. Chairman, I’d like to ask the Minister if the funding to those organizations has stayed the same, increased or decreased and how these numbers relate to last year.
Hon. Jack Anawak: Mr. Chairman, by and large, the funding has stayed the same as the previous year and the funding usually is derived per capita.
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I’d like to know if it has gone down over the last year.
I know that all the housing organizations in the communities have been struggling with cuts that have been faced for the last number of years with the GNWT and are barely sustained above water right now.
So, I’d like to know before I approve this as to whether or not they're are going to be taking another hit in O & M dollars to operate in the communities and here in Iqaluit.
Mr. Ferris: I just want to clarify.
The Minister's correct.
At the present time, we’re paying the municipality or the local Housing Authorities on the basis of the figures that came from the GNWT.
There is, if the main estimates are approved, there is 1 million in forced growth funding for local housing operations that has not been apportioned yet to those local housing operations.
And until the budget is approved we’re not able to tell them to spend that money.
But there was forced growth calculations done related to housing and that’s included in the dollars presently within this main estimate and that would then be an adjustment of the dollars going to local Housing Associations.
Thank you Mr. Deputy Minister for that response.
I’m pleased to hear that and I’m sure that the Associations in the communities will be, too.
Also in here, I take it that O & M funding for the regional offices and other departments and I’d like to ask them how those equate to last year’s numbers, to the regional offices.
Mr. Ferris: The funding in the main estimates does relate to the last year’s levels given the exception of the transfers of the technical positions from housing to public works and transportation.
The number of PY’s and the dollars related to those are now budgeted under Public Works.
Mr. Tootoo: Thanks Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman, could the Minister or staff give an idea of the percentage of reduction that the regional offices…I guess it’s only the Baffin Regional office that’s taking a reduction.
I guess all of them.
What percentages in each region the reduction over last year as a result of this transfer.
Chairperson: Mr. Anawak
Hon. Jack Anawak: Actually, the reductions should be proportionate to the number of personnel leaving in terms of going into the Public Works department.
So, it should be just proportionate to the number of people leaving.
I realize that but I asked if we could get a percentage in decreased in regional budget due to this transfer.
I don’t see how difficult that is to answer.
Hon. Jack Anawak: Yes, we can get the information and we’ll get it.
I’m just saying that it’s not a decrease.
It’s just a transfer of the funds to Public Works in order to facilitate the transfer of technical people to Public Works from the Housing Corporation.
So, I’m just going to clarify and make sure I have it straight.
Mr. Chairman, the Minister’s stating that other than the cost related to the positions being transferred to the DPW, Telecommunications, and Technical Services, the regional offices are not seeing any reductions over last year’s numbers.
Hon. Jack Anawak: Yes, basically, that’s right with the exception that when the transfer occurred I guess there was about 4 or 5 vacant positions that have not been factored into the budget.
May I just clarify again because I’m not sure where the dollars coming in from the CMHC, do they flow through this area or they show up in a different area.
I’d just like to ask for some clarification on that.
Mr. Ferris: Mr. Chairman, the dollars coming in from CMHC do not show up in this section.
There is a social housing agreement that has been signed with the government and with CMHC and those dollars come through directly to the Housing Corporation and there’s 58 million this year that are flowing in.
Of that 58 million, 4 million 290 thousand are for the EM & I program and the rest are operational dollars for the Housing Corporation.
I have another name on my list.
Mr. Puqiqnak (interpretation): Thank you.
Just for further clarification, Mr. Chairman.
Regarding the grants and contributions.
What falls under grants and contributions and how do you get grants and contributions?
Mr. Ferris: Mr. Chairman, the grants and contributions is the portion of the dollars from the territorial government, the Government of Nunavut that goes to the local housing organizations and that is the amount of the grants and contributions.
The other O & M is used for travel, transportation costs, office supplies within the Housing Corporation operations.
Mr. Puqiqnak (interpretation): Thank you for that clarification and I would also like clarification on the contributions.
How do you apply…what contains contributions.
Chairperson (interpretation): Would anybody like to respond, Mr. Anawak?
Hon. Jack Anawak (interpretation): I apologize.
I didn’t look at the Inuktitut…I believe you’re talking about the grants and contributions in 7-9 and it’s contributions totalling 19 million.
Chairperson (interpretation): We’re not there yet.
Mr. Puqiqnak (interpretation): Well, it’s under housing.
Chairperson (interpretation): Please use the chair, Mr. Puqiqnak.
Mr. Puqiqnak (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, I apologize.
I forgot that we were at the Assembly.
I am here in 7-9 and I’m talking about contributions in the same page.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Puqiqnak, if you could identify the number.
Mr. Puqiqnak (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, I’m getting very confused.
It’s 7-9 under housing.
It’s for homeowners' assistance or some of the forms are assistance for housing.
I apologize to you, Mr. Puqiqnak.
You mentioned 19 million and little bit under.
It's the regional housing, Baffin, Keewatin and Kitikmeot which totals up 19 million and 50 thousand which would be contributed.
Mr. Puqiqnak (Interpretation): Thank you Mr. Chairman and Mr. Minister for responding to my question.
If that’s to help homeowners, you probably are well aware, Mr. Minister, that…there’s some people out there who would like to get housing but with all the policies and everything that they have to go through they have a hard time getting to use this assistance.
I can use an example in Uqsuqtuq.
There’s a person who would like to build a house with his own design but he can’t do that.
He’d like to build a house and he chose the type of housing he would like, because of course when you want to be building your house you want to have it the way you like it.
It creates a problem for the Inuit, this policy.
Even myself, if I were going to be spending money to build a house I would want that house built the way I want to see it.
I have heard of this concern and the department has actually talked to that person.
The problem is when you want to buy an existing home the house is not under the policy but I have heard that when the people who built the house…could go under Article 24.
It would not help out the community financially but I think…well, we can review this some more but under Article 24 the person that they’d like to buy the house from would have to be eligible under Article 24.
We’re working on it but I think that we have to review it again.
We have to find out where these houses come from, if they are arctic-proof and we have to look at the policy again.
Mr. Puqiqnak (interpretation): Thank you and I also thank the Minister.
Looking at Nunavut it’s very large geographically and we are representing our ridings, the communities in our ridings.
Well, I understand exactly where you are coming from and he said that they’re going to review the policy and I will be looking forward to the results of the review.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Puqiqnak. Please realize that if you have any questions please keep to the specific page number.
Mr. Kattuk: Mr. Chairman, I’m kind of lost.
I thought we were in the 7-9, 33 million 243 thousand and we’re talking about…I believe were talking about 7-10 so I’d like to go back to the topic at hand.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Kattuk.
Mr. Chairman, in the O & M function there’s salaries and wages that those costs reflect all the staff related to the Nunavut Housing Corporation.
Does that include, the, include all the staff that are being hired in the office in Arviat?
Hon. Jack Anawak: Yes.
Mr. Chairman, could the Minister or his staff inform us, I know during the standing committee meeting it was indicated they were having some problems filling some of those positions.
They were at the time looking for controllers, I was wondering if were able to find that person, a key person within that division and also the status on filling the rest of the positions within that office.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Anawak
On the controller, he started 2 weeks ago and on the rest we’re proceeding according to our schedule.
We’re proceeding to get employees for the department, according to the schedule that we set.
Mr. Chairman, I mentioned earlier that the Housing Corporation looks after all the social housing staff and all the dollars from CMHC goes to the Nunavut Housing Corporation and that it’s, the agreement’s been signed and it also points out that we’re short by over 5000 and by 2006 we’re going to be short 5116 units.
Has this been addressed or is there any plans on negotiating with CMHC on the agreement as far as some changes to it or is there any plans.
Hon. Jack Anawak: The CMHC are not going to be responsible for social housing anymore but what I’ve been saying is the shortage of housing is very severe and it was one of the major concerns when we were touring around in the communities.
It has effected schooling, health and justice issues.
We’re going to work very hard on the issue of housing and I, we haven’t put together a plan yet, but we will work together at the House, at the department and so on to work on this issue of housing.
But CMHC money is going to gradually decrease.
This social housing money will gradually decrease over the years.
Chairperson (interpretation): Did you get that Mr. Tootoo?
Mr. Chairman, I’m not in agreement, you said the Minister said that the CMHC is no longer responsible for social housing, I guess the question is, who is responsible for social housing and I know the agreement that we have in place is with CMHC. So, if you want to negotiate that you should be negotiating with CMHC.
I’m just wondering if you can clarify those.
Mr. Ferris: Mr. Chairman, thank you.
The Minister is right that CMHC is no longer involved in social housing.
That decision was made.
All the agreements that are currently in place are identical in every province and territory.
They simply are honouring the commitment on units that CMHC built when they were in social housing to pay us the money to maintain those units and those dollars decreased as the mortgages get paid off.
With the provinces and territories and, we have been involved, I’m on the council of  Deputy Ministers that have responsibility for housing.
Our Minister will be also attending the meeting, hopefully in Whitehorse, with other Ministers responsible for Housing in the provinces and territories.
There is an attempt in a united way by the provinces and territories to get the federal government, whether it’s CMHC, whether it’s DIAND, whoever, to look at their role in social housing.
But it’s one of those ones that the federal government unilaterally transferred to provincial and territorial jurisdictions when they gave the edict so it's not just facing us in Nunavut, it is one that we are working with our colleagues right across the country.
Mr. Chairman, the Deputy Minister said that the federal government is not responsible, they are no longer in social housing.
Does that mean that we, as the Nunavut Government are the ones that are responsible for social housing in Nunavut?
He indicated that they transferred their responsibility over to us, it's something that basically if we looked at it, if we addressed it, it would sink us.
If they're going to dump that responsibility on us there has to be some way of going back after the federal government, because it was their responsibility to begin with.
I don't know if we've been transferred that responsibility.
As far as I know, all that we've done is enter into a contribution agreement with them to administer their units, and I am just wondering if anything is being done, because to me this doesn't seem right to dump this in our lap to deal with.
I think there is someone there at the federal level that should have responsibility for it and as the Deputy Minister indicated, that is something that is being looked at nationally and I am glad to see that.