EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
It took a number of years to convince the federal government that per capita based funding does not work for the north, not just Nunavut but the other two territories also.
I think this has become obvious from the federal budget that we are getting back to per capita funding in a number of fields. That’s troubling.
It’s a step backwards. It means starting the same battle with Ottawa trying to convince them that per capita funding does not work for Nunavut.
I know that it is difficult. When I was with the Nunavut Association of Municipalities we spent a couple of years lobbying the federal government.
We actually took all the Mayors in Nunavut to Ottawa to pound on a few desks. We had a bit of success.
We got the one percent allocation formula in the $2 billion budget.
One percent of $2 billion is a lot of money and it helped us out with that Municipal Rural Infrastructure Fund.
I encourage and support the minister, and Nunavut Association of Municipalities, and anyone else that lobbies in Ottawa that per capita does not work for Nunavut.
We’re just going to continue to struggle if that’s the case.
On page C-15 of the department’s business plan there is a priority for 2007-08 that the department monitor performance of the economy and provide the Government of Nunavut with a semi-annual economic outlook for the territory.
I wonder if the minister could explain how they would develop and release a semi-annual economic outlook for the territory.
It is important that the Government of Nunavut understands where the economy is performing in terms of growth, job creation, and other areas. We at finance work closely with the Nunavut Bureau of Statistics and other departments to monitor the performance of the economy on a semi-annual basis.
The next economic outlook for the Nunavut economy will be included in the March budget.
I have noted that the Bureau of Statistics, over the last six to eight months, has increased their amount of information that they’re collecting and dispersing throughout the territory.
So that is useful information for people who like to read statistics. I am sure you’ve got a few folks in your department that like doing that. It is useful information to help you determine where to invest your money.
Mr. Chairman, another priority for 2007-08 is to work with the Certified General Accountants Association to have them support advanced accounting training in Nunavut.
Last summer, Mr. Chairman, of the standing committee met with the Auditor General for Canada and during the course of our meeting with her in the discussion and debate around the table, we all agreed that the Government of Nunavut and Nunavut in general has a huge shortage of qualified accountants in all departments, and all organizations and in the private sector.
So I’d like to hear a bit more from the minister of what their plans are with work with that organization to have them help us develop our own accountants in Nunavut.
Yes, we have been using Algonquin College out of Ottawa and through that we have helped 25 Government of Nunavut staff achieve exemption of five CGA courses and we are continuing to work with them with Algonquin College. We have had discussions with the Certified General Accountants Association directly about running their programs directly here in Nunavut.
However, we have not been able to come up with a final agreement to date but we are still continuing to work with them to see if we can get them to run programs directly in Nunavut.
Throughout your department, how many Chartered Accountants or CGAs do you have working for your organization?
I looked around and it appears we don’t have that information handy. I’ll compile that information for the member.
I thank the minister I hope he’ll provide that information. It is not critical and I know last summer I think we ball parked in the Department of Finance was 27 throughout the territory in your department. So I am just wondering if that is up or down or flat.
So that will be all the questions on that page, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
Page C-5.
Just a couple of follow up things. I know my colleague earlier asked a question on the RFP that the Government of Nunavut put out for banking services and Bank of Montreal need not bother applying. Given the whole concept of looking at getting expanded services into smaller communities, this whole idea of creating a special program for accountants.
You can ask any accountant. You don’t just wave a magic wand and throw some money at it and, poof, you have an accountant. A lot of the issues facing that are on financial planning, understanding it and recognizing the importance of it.
That is something that I have said for years that throughout the communities other than Rankin Inlet and Cambridge Bay and here that don’t have any financial institutions in them, that no one has the opportunity to learn.
You know budgeting, putting money away in a bank account, putting money into RRSPs things like that.
I wonder if a component of looking at trying to develop our own home-grown accountants. It started at the earlier levels if you look at partnering somehow with the Department of Education in developing a module or something that could be used at the earlier stages like in the high school or even in the middle, grade eight or up or something like that, to give people and get young people to start thinking about financial planning.
You know you have to have an interest in it; you have to understand it before you can sit down and take the courses that you need to be an accountant.
Right now, unfortunately, throughout most of the territory, a lot of those young people don’t get the opportunity to do that.
You see it … the results of that are widespread.
There are always people who never have enough money. People are advancing paycheques and living from paycheque to paycheque and not budgeting properly. It has a huge detrimental impact on not only people that aren’t in the workforce but also people who are.
If we can find a way or a process that could help identify that field to someone at an earlier age instead of after they go through the school system, they will say “Oh, I can make good money if I go and take this course but are they going to pay me good money to take it.” You have a better chance of getting someone who is going to be successful in that program, if they are more ready to be there and they understand the principles and everything behind that level.
I am just wondering if the minister can commit to looking at something like that because for the long term, we can’t always keep going after people once they have finished school. We need to be able to try and foster that learning and attitude at a younger level.
I am just wondering if that is something he would be willing to take a look at.
I’m sorry to say that you will have to sit down with the Education Minister but sometimes you have to do what you have to do.
It is an interesting concept. In fact, my Deputy Minister has had some of those discussions. Maybe he can elaborate more on what those have been.
The member raises a good point and it is something we certainly have discussed at a working level; that would be at the official’s level. It would be something that would be considered part of the overall … what is being done with the consultants that we’ve hired on the Human Resources strategy.
It’s certainly not something we have talked about at the working group level in the working group including the DM from Education as well as the President of Nunavut Arctic College.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Ma. Page C-5.
Finance. Branch Summary. Directorate.
Total Operations and Maintenance. $1,596,000. (interpretation) Do you agree?
Chairman: C-6.
Welcome Minister and your staff. In 2003, the government had announced the establishment of the Crown Agency Council to address issues related to the Government of Nunavut’s relationship with such entities as Qulliq Energy Corporation. Also, the minister is also the Chairman of the Crown Agency Council.
I would like to ask the minister a question on what are the crown agency council’s priorities for 2007-08?
We are proposing four main activities for 2007-08 and I’ll just read them to you. Investigate a corporate governance template for future reference, as well what you might call a tool box for the use of public agencies with regards to governance components. The so-called tool box would replace the suggested handbook.
Secondly, perform legislative reviews as necessary, building off work previously done to assist in strengthening the governance reporting and accountability framework of territorial corporations.
For example, assist in finalizing the Nunavut Development Corporation/Nunavut Business Credit Corporation rationalization if that’s appropriate.
Thirdly, continue to build on the relationship between the crown agency council and the public agencies. Fourthly continue with active liaison on day to day basis between public agencies and the Government of Nunavut.
Mr. Evyagotailak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks, Minister.
The 2006-07 letters of expectations to the Government of Nunavut major crown agencies were tabled on December 5, 2006.
In your views, as the chair of the crown agency council, are crown agencies compliant with the letters of expectations?
Chairman: Thank you Mr. Evyagotailak. Minister Simailak.
There have been major improvements, yes.
Have any crowns not complied with the directions given to them by their minister?
No there have been none.
Mr. Evyagotailak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Minister.
Why did the Qulliq Energy Corporation and the Nunavut Business Credit Development Corporation not provide the 2007-08 draft business plan for reviews by the standing committee?
It was just a timing issue. I understand now they have been submitted to the appropriate standing committee.
I’m sorry, as part of the main estimates, they have been submitted now.
Thanks Minister.
Why is the office of the Auditor General conducting a special audit of the business credit corporation?
The performance audit is part of the main audit and we are expecting the report in May.
The 2006-07 letter of expectations to the Qulliq Energy Corporation instructed the corporation to reduce its spending on employee housing by 50 percent.
Over the five-year period, in your view as the chair of the crown agency council, is the corporation compliant with this instruction?
Yes, they are, they are working on it, so in my view they are compliant with that letter of expectation, they are working on it.
The 2006-07 letter of expectations to the Qulliq Energy Corporation instructs the corporation to develop and enhance a business like relationship with the Petroleum Products Division, of the Department of Community and Government Services.
In your view as the chair of the crown agency council, is the corporation compliant with these instructions?
Yes, they are complying with that. There is ongoing dialogue going on.
My last question to the minister is: the Crown Agency Council has been working to finalize the governance model for public agencies, what is the status of this initiative?
As I mentioned earlier we are investigating a corporate governance template for future reference. So it is ongoing work at this point.
Page C-6.
Total Operations and Maintenance. $3,810,000. (interpretation) Do you agree?
Branch Summary. Financial Management.
Just a question dealing with the Fuel Tax Rebate Program that was announced in 2006. Can the minister indicate how successful that program has been to date?
At the end of September it was not as great as we had hoped it would be, but it is a new program, we are changing the program. It is a work in progress.
I could say with the changes that we will be proposing that people will be able to find it much easier to apply for and to use.
Does the minister know when he’ll be able to table the annual report on the administration of the program?
The plan is to table that at the May session.
As I noted in my opening comments and the response to a petition concerning the Fuel Tax Rebate Program, you indicated that some further modifications to the program are in the process of being made. Is he in a position to give an indication of what kind of changes are they looking at?
Are they looking at expanding the program to include sustenance hunters as well?
Yes, that is one area that we are looking at but the department will be bringing it forward to me as a discussion paper on those changes very soon. Soon, we will be able to take that to Cabinet and get the changes in place so that more and more Nunavummiut could take advantage of the program.
Is there a timeline of when he is expecting to be able to bring something to Cabinet? Will he hoping to be able to make an announcement in the May-June sitting on changes to the program or is it something that is going to have to wait until a little later than that?
I am hoping to be able to make announcements prior to the May sitting of this House and then table those changes in the House at that time.
Finance. Branch Summary. Financial Management.
I would like to ask the minister a question on the revenues for alcohol. I can’t recall if I asked him this before, I think, perhaps, I might have, but he’s probably heard me talk about renovations at the Cambridge Bay Wellness Centre and all the great work they do putting on programs to help people with substance abuse problems and requiring treatment.
My question for the minister is: does the minister support using the revenues from alcohol to assist organizations to put on alcohol and treatment-type programs in the communities?
All those revenues from the liquor sales go to the government’s general revenues, and then they are divvied up from there.
Whether they would be used for something specific as the member is suggesting, that would be something that the FMB would have to decide on.
Perhaps, there’s something more specific. Perhaps the fines that are generated from the violations of the Liquor Act, they could be diverted to alcohol treatment programs. I’m thinking fines that come from bootlegging and driving under the influence, and some of those sorts of things, is that something the minister could consider?
Again, it would be up to the Department of Health to come forward with a budget line for something like that if that’s what they want to do if they are finding that the money available to them is not enough and they would have to ask for an increase.
And, again, we would get FMB to decide where that money would come from.
Mr. Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the minister for the answer. I’m thinking that it can come from the fines that are enforced under the Act.
That could be specific.
I’m not a lawyer or an accountant, but I think if FMB was serious about combating alcohol and substance abuse-type issues in Nunavut that they would certainly have this set-up and divert some of the monies that the government receives and puts in the consolidated revenue fund, diverted specifically to programs to help the groups in our communities who need additional source of revenue to put on vital and necessary treatment programs.
So I wonder if the minister or Mr. Ma could explain the process that would have to be undertaken to make some changes in the regulations to allow something like that to happen.
There are now Alcohol Education Committees in some of the communities that are basically frontline people, I guess, when it comes to things like that through their committee work and approving it, liquor permits and applications and that.
We’re also going to be starting up a review of the Liquor Act, so that’s certainly an area that can be looked at during that review, and then we could see where we go from there. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I certainly look forward to some positive results, since I’m on the alcohol, I’m sorry, on the Government Operations and Accountability Committee; I look forward to seeing some progress in that area.
I’m sure I’ll have many opportunities to follow up with you on that.
You touched on something that I was going to ask you about and that’s the Alcohol Education Committees. I noted in your business plan that you’re planning to do some education-type work with the Alcohol Education Committees.
Can the minister tell us how many alcohol education committees there are across Nunavut and what specific type of work they undertake in their communities.
There are, presently, 12 communities across Nunavut that have Alcohol Education Committees. Some of their responsibilities include who may have liquor in the community, who may import liquor, the amount of liquor a person may possess.
They may withdraw eligibility of a person to possess alcohol or they may organize programs and provide counselling services.
I thank the Minister for that information.
In the minister’s opinion are the 12 committees fairly effective in their communities in undertaking their duties and fulfilling their obligations as committee members.
We have alcohol education committees in 12 communities and every single one of them is a volunteer.
They are still doing their work, they are committed to their work and through that, just the fact that there is an Alcohol Education Committee in 12 communities across Nunavut is a success and I would encourage the rest of the communities to look for those volunteers in their community.
The reason that I was asking that question is because on page C-18 of the business plan there is a priority from 2006-07 to educate the alcohol education committees as to their roles and responsibilities. The status is ongoing. The department has recently hired a client liaison officer to work with the alcohol education committees.
That kind of sent the message to me that the 12 committees, although they provide important functions in the community, they still have to receive guidance and training from the department. I wonder if the minister could clarify what the client liaison officer position is and where that person works and how they interact with the 12 committees.
Hon. David Simailak: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Ma can respond to that one.
There probably has been progress in educating the alcohol education committees but obviously that is something that is ongoing, something to continue to work on and to improve upon.
The client liaison person is actually located here in Iqaluit at the Parnaivik office building.
The individual was hired, I believe, in September of last year.
The responsibility of that individual is to work with the alcohol education committees, work with communities, get out to the schools and basically be our public liaison individual in that respect in terms of educating people about alcohol.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Ma. Page C-7.
Total Operations and Maintenance $3,154,000.
C-8. Finance. Branch Summary.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, no I have the wrong page. I will ask later.
Total Operations and Maintenance $1,173,000.
Chairman: C-9.
Finance. Branch Summary. Control Issue.
Total Operations and Maintenance. $12,713,000. (interpretation) Do you agree?
Page C-10. Finance.
A short question here for the minister, we have been asking for a copy of the Government of Nunavut P3 Policy and I’m wondering if the minister could tell us what the status is of the policy?
I forgot to mention this page also includes Page C-11.
Presently we are still working on that policy.
I think the Department of Finance has been, I have heard that answer, I think I’ve asked this question three of four times and I think I’ve heard the same answer three or four times. Can the minister put it to rest and give us a firm date on when the P3 policy will be complete and be tabled for MLAs to review?
Yes, it is a priority for this year.
Before he says priority for this year could the minister give a firm date please? Is it May 2007, will it be October 2007?
Just give us a date.
We would hope by December the 31st of this year.
Can I ask him to change the word from hope to commit?
Hon. David Simailak: We will give it our best effort.
It is a priority for this department and the deputy minister has been instructed to finish the job and get it done.
I have a lot of confidence in Mr. Ma. I have his phone number and his e-mail address, and I know where he lives, so I will take that as a commitment.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): My question is in regard to the electricity subsidy. First of all, when was the last time the price went up for consumers for those people who are subsidized?
The subsidy is half of the Iqaluit rate, or 19.5 cents per kilowatt-hour.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): When was the last time it went up?
The guess is around 2005.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): We have been told that 2006-07 the fuel price is at its highest and the homeowners, especially in the communities, feel it.
They almost pay a 100 percent and this subsidy helps a lot for those homeowners because they are commercial power subsidies but I like to see if the subsidy that is received by the consumer is the rate the same in Iqaluit as it is throughout Nunavut.
The subsidy is actually half of the Iqaluit rate, which works out to 19.5 cents per kilowatt-hour because the Iqaluit rate is 39 cents per kilowatt-hour and I could also say for residential; it is a very huge program for us.
For example, 2005-06, we spent over $6 million subsidy paid out to residential buildings and $148,000 for businesses.
So it is very valuable program for Nunavut.
And as I stated earlier it helps a lot homeowners. The fuel is most felt this year and the subsidy hasn’t gone up, especially in the communities.
The price of the fuel is almost doubled and they pay so much more. Why can’t you average this because it is only half because it is the cheapest here in Iqaluit?
I wonder if this can be considered to put in the mid range or be more flexible, especially for people in the High Arctic.
Their level of subsidy might be higher. Why do you think that it should be equal all across Nunavut because in some communities it cost a lot higher and the fuel price and the price of energy is going up?
Hon. David Simailak (interpretation): At this time starting from April to September they are subsidized 700 kilowatt hours in winter time after that 1,000 kilowatt hours are subsidized.
So in wintertime, 1,000 kilowatt hours help a lot for the homeowners in Nunavut.
It is very beneficial but the price of fuel and the energy has gone up but the subsidy hasn’t changed.
But if we look at the Crown Corporation Qulliq Energy, if they don’t have a subsidy they go to Utility Rate Review Council and then the Minister approves them.
Why does the Crown Corporation need a subsidy, or to put a rate rider, if it’s approved?
I know that there wouldn’t be a rate rider but for that reason, maybe in the near future you will be able to do a review of the fuel prices because the price of the fuel has increased a lot. Will you be doing a review not too long from now?
I think it was last year that we made a change from 700-kilowatt hours up to 1,000. We did that with that in mind.
We put it to 1,000-kilowatt hours and I believe that it helped a lot.
In regard to your question, we can look at it and se what the outcome would be.
We’ll be looking forward to it. We will want to get an update sometime in the fall.
The previous Finance Minister called it the three percent solution.
The increase is way up. The fuel price that we bought when it was $72 a barrel and right now there has been a decrease.
With that I think you should review it and keep in mind the fuel tax, and so on.
That’s more of a comment than a question. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Curley. (interpretation ends) Page C-10.
I just want to ask on the Nunavut Electricity Subsidy Program that is administered by this department, which has seen an increase in limits in the last year, as the minister indicated. I think they extended the number of kilowatt-hours that were eligible for a subsidy as well as the time of year in which that amount would be used for. The minister did say that it did have huge impact on homeowners to help them out.
Having said that, my question the price of energy is increased you have broadened the subsidy program by increasing the number of hours and the time in which those could be used.