EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
The standing committee also encourages the minister to provide regular updates to the Legislative Assembly on the activities of the government’s Nuliajuk research vessel.
Mr. Chairman that concludes my opening comments on the proposed 2014-15 main estimates and the 2014-17 business plan of the Department of Environment.
Comments. There are no comments.
Branch Summary. Corporate Management.
I just have one question regarding policy.
As I’m sure most members are aware, there has been some coverage lately with the disagreement between Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated’s interpretation of Article 5 on the economic benefit of, specifically in this case, it’s the Southampton caribou, but I think it encompasses a Nunavut-wide issue, whereas the government’s stance is such that the basic needs harvest limits should not include the commercial limit under the economic benefit part of Article 5.
I’m confused as to both sides of it. I don’t know enough about the file to make an opinion one way or the other. I was wondering if maybe the minister could educate me.
Chairman: Minister Mike.
I would also like to thank my colleague for asking that question.
The Department of Environment, in regard to wildlife agreements under Article 5, we have to make a decision on that, especially in regard to the basic needs level that you just mentioned.
I can tell you that, as the Department of Environment, as a government, we are looking for the definition of that. We have been looking for the definition of that because we are not talking about the caribou population.
We’re concerned about subsistence harvesting because it touches the basic needs level.
We are looking for the definition of that term.
We have submitted this to the Nunavut Wildlife Management Board for basic needs level, especially within the government Department of Environment. That’s why we had submitted to the Nunavut Wildlife Management Board.
NTI has to come up with their own definition and they have to suggest a definition to the Nunavut Wildlife Management Board.
The Nunavut Wildlife Management Board is an entity on its own, at arms length. So that’s how I can explain it, Mr. Chairman.
I will say it in English. (interpretation ends) Basic needs level. We have forwarded our interpretation of basic need level to the Nunavut Wildlife Management Board that we are seeking in that term.
I do appreciate that there are complexities with the basic need level.
I’m not a lawyer but I would interpret an economic benefit if I hunt an animal and sell it, I’m getting an economic benefit, whether if that’s at the commercial or from selling fish outside of the NorthMart.
I’m still a little unclear. My apologies, Mr. Minister.
I still don’t understand the economic benefit side of things taken away from the total allowable harvest to the basic needs limit.
I don’t want to say irrelevant, because it’s a factor into the consideration into the interpretation of Article 5. I think, initially, so you get a definition of the economic benefit of hunting.
Hon. Johnny Mike (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, this is a complex issue. I am very pleased that you’re asking question on this issue because Nunavummiut need to hear and understand about this.
As I stated earlier, that this basic needs level definition and the details, I cannot really get into the details in regard to this until we get the definition.
Due to this, we need to resolve the definition. As a government, we have submitted the definition to the Nunavut Wildlife Management Board.
I cannot tell you if the Nunavut Wildlife Management Board implemented the suggestion that we had given to them. So therefore, I’ll have my interim deputy minister explain further on that.
I agree with the minister and it is a very complex issue that’s got a lot of legal implications.
The one thing that I would probably try and explain is that we make a distinction between harvesting by Inuit for sale, as opposed to harvesting by a commercial corporation, which is the difference in interpretation that we have with NTI.
As opposed to an Inuk harvesting and selling the product is, in our view, would be considered the basic needs level. Whereas, a corporation that is licensed to commercially harvest is a different issue.
That, in its essence, is the difference in the two positions. Again, it’s the jurisdiction of the Nunavut Wildlife Management Board to make that decision. The minister then responds according to the land claims process.
Between the two of you, I think I understand a little bit clearer now.
My main concern there was I’m not trying to take any money out of any hunter’s pocket and any opportunity for them to maintain their equipment, to purchase equipment, supplies, and materials so they can feed their family and their community.
I appreciate the interpretation.
I’ll digest it a little bit.
I kind of know the answer to this one but I would like the minister to tell the committee why it takes so long at times to fill a wildlife officer’s, conservation officer’s position when they leave a community?
My temporary deputy minister will respond to this question.
Chairman: Mr. Pinken.
Mr. Pinksen: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are a number of factors that play into how long it takes to staff positions. When a position becomes vacant we review the job description and submit it.
It has to be evaluated and advertised and it goes through a competition process but even before that, oftentimes when there is no staff housing available, we actually would hold off on advertising, sometimes for up to a period of months, unless we feel there is somebody in the community with their own housing that would be interested. That is rarely the case. Most people expect staff housing to come with their position, so, all of those factors do play a role and of course, occasionally, there is an appeal, which adds to the staffing process, as well.
And on employment still but a different matter. According to the December 31, 2013, stats here, the beneficiary percent is only at 32 percent of the employees and for senior management and executives are at zero percent.
Does the minister have any plans to address this issue?
I thank my colleague from Arviat asking about the lack of senior personnel in this department who are one of the beneficiaries, so as a minister for this department, I will continue to address this issue that it needs Inuit senior personnel of Inuit origin to be in the higher echelons of the Department of Environment.
However, the difficulties that I do know, the beneficiaries who are available, even though they have been asked, basically refuse to accept positions in this department.
I thank the minister for his candid answer. Still on employment, I know and the minister knows that to be a conservation officer, you have to have training and certificates and I also know that there is a high turnover rate and then the hiring process starts all over again.
Can the minister or does the minister know why that turnover rate is fairly high?
I will have my acting deputy minister respond to the question.
We do suffer a fairly high turnover rate both in conservation officer positions and in other technical positions.
Of course, the decision to leave a job is usually a personal one and people make their own decisions, but we do know that with some people, there’s job satisfaction that we have learned from them on exit surveys. Occasionally, we know that for some of our non-Nunavut hires, they get experience and move on to other positions that they’re advancing into.
There are various reasons. I’m afraid we can’t give a clear answer as to exactly why we have such high turnover rates, but I think there are many factors that play into it.
I’ll ask the minister’s officials then: would I be close to being right if I said that we were training southern officers that weren’t experienced enough to get employment down south to come up here and get training and employment, and then get employment down south?
I will have my acting deputy minister to respond to that question.
I would say that could be the case in some cases, but just looking back at the staffing process, the staffing process is intended to be fair and giving special considerations to beneficiaries and long-term northerners.
It is a fair process that also hires non-Nunavut residents.
If some of them make that choice to come here for experience, it is their choice.
I would note that in the past two to three years, we have seen a substantial increase in the number of graduates from the Nunavut Arctic College Environmental Technology Program. Just in recent, let’s say, year and a half or so, we have seen quite an increase in the number of applicants from that program coming to our department.
We have hired, I think, three in the last year and I know that there’s active competition for couple of others, so that’s very encouraging.
I agree that there are more graduates now from the environmental program and I hear that they’re highly sought after.
From the last graduates that were from there, can the minister tell me how many went to go work for the Department of Environment?
My acting deputy minister will respond to that question.
Those recent graduates just graduated two weeks ago and we haven’t actually had any job competitions out, except there is one job competition open in Taloyoak and there are two of them applying for it.
I believe that’s the one.
From the last graduating class, we hired, I believe, two.
Branch Summary. Corporate Management. Total Operations and Maintenance.
Along with my colleague, with the line of questioning that he was doing regarding the wildlife officers, are those posted out for advertisement publicly or what’s the process there?
Hon. Johnny Mike: Yes, they are open competition, publicly.
Mr. Mikkungwak (interpretation): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) Thank you very much.
When an individual has completed the environmental technology course, are they directly appointed or do they have to go through the application process?
They would have to go through the hiring process, competition process.
So there are no direct appointments to any of these wildlife officers?
Hon. Johnny Mike (interpretation): While the competitions are open and there are usually wildlife officers with experience and there are students who are just completing and there are those that compete for those positions.
I guess I’ll rephrase my question here. An individual who hunts throughout the year. There are seasonal hunters and some of them are full-time hunters.
An individual who has completed the environmental technology course through Nunavut Arctic College and has completed and successfully passed. If there will be a direct appointment, which one would receive the direct appointment?
My deputy will answer this question.
That’s a bit of a theoretical question, I don’t know if I can answer the question in that manner.
A beneficiary who hunts all year round applies for a wildlife officer position and another individual who applies for the same position who has completed the environmental technology course.
My question here is would there be a direct appointment for that particular job offer or job description or job advertisement?
My deputy will answer this.
If individuals are applying that means there is an open competition. If they are applying for the job there must have been a competition so there wouldn’t be a direct appointment. Direct appointment is used only in vary special circumstances when a competition will be seen as unnecessary.
It’s very rare that that happens, especially with wildlife officer positions.
The minimum requirements for somebody to screen in for a conservation officer position is a post-secondary diploma. That is the baseline. I’m having some difficulty with the question.
My apologies. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I guess my question here is: have there been any direct appointments?
Hon. Johnny Mike (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, I will have my deputy minister answer the question.
Mr. Pinksen: I believe the last direct appointment for a conservation officer position was about three years ago.
So, yes, there have been in the past.
The last one, I believe, was a trainee position, as opposed to a full-fledged officer.
If there are any direct appointments, that obsoletes any job advertisements that are posted publicly.
I would like my acting deputy minister to respond to that.
Yes, if there was a direct appointment, which is a process that’s provided for in the GN staffing process, then there wouldn’t be a need to advertise if there was a direct appointment happening.
Total Operations and Maintenance, to be Voted. $4,408,000.
>>Laughter  Mr. Mapsalak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
A couple of us have been raising our hands and we haven’t been noticed for a while.
I don’t have a real big question. I just have a request for clarification. My colleague from Arviat, Mr. Savikataaq was asking questions on it.
We don’t have a conservation officer in Repulse Bay either. The ones that we’ve had worked for a while, even less than a year, then they leave.
It’s been like that for a number of times now.
Is there a conservation officer position in Repulse Bay open right now, or not?
I have my acting deputy minister to answer that question.
Yes, the conservation officer position in Repulse Bay is just now starting the staffing process. It is going out for competition.
As I stated earlier, the officers that were previously hired don’t stay very long.
Maybe they don’t like it there, or they find that they don’t have enough to do there. We always request for them. They have work to do there.
This happened too many times.
Is the minister aware, or does he suspect any reason why these conservation officers work for a very short time in some of the communities? I’m sure this happens in more than one community.
Do you have any idea why they don’t spend much time up here?
If you cannot answer that, I’ll understand.
We suspect that when they come from the south, they don’t seem to want to stay in Nunavut very long.
If you can find people with the right abilities in the communities, if someone who had passed their education, it would be good if someone could try and apply for that and if you get an application like that from the communities, would that person be able to get started on the job right away and be trained?
The MLAs concern, the fact that they can’t seem to retain conservation officers, I can’t tell you why but I can have it looked into, to see why they don’t spend much time there.
We have to know that.
We want to know that and you want to know it too and people who take training to become conservation officers, they are always supported by the Department of Environment.
As a minister, I cannot really say, this person will be more suitable or that person will be more suitable. If someone comes from your community, if they will be more suitable, if the person comes from Nunavut, would that make him more suitable or if not from Nunavut?
That is not my job but I can say that people who are qualified, we try to hire people who are qualified, but it is unfortunate that some of them quit in a short time.
I will get this looked into to see why conservation officers don’t seem to want to stay in your community. That’s all I can say for now.
I just want the members to be aware that questions of staffing issues have been asked repetitively and one than one member, please ask questions that have not been asked.
Mr. Mapsalak (interpretation): Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The question I was going to ask but according to your instruction I don’t think I will be asking that anymore. What I was asking was, if there was someone who was properly educated in the community, who is qualified, I would prefer them to be picked instead, and because they are from the community, the will probably stick with the job longer.
Chairman: At the start of a branch, if members would let me know that they would like to ask questions, please let me know, put your hand up, way up.
I raise my arm really quick, hoping he will let me talk. I wanted to ask another question about staffing, though, if you can allow me to do that?
It is on this page, human resources and training. If you can allow me, I would like to ask the question, Mr. Chairman?
Chairman: Go ahead, Mr. Enook.
Thank you for allowing me the chance. The question I would like to ask is, it includes training and staff needs to be trained and updated.
Let me ask first, when a conservation officer needs to go on training somewhere else, everything in their job stops in the community and it causes a lot of inconvenience to the larger communities, like Pond Inlet.
Have you looked into this at all? It is very inconvenient when you direct your conservation officer to go for a training course or a meeting or to update their skills. Everything in their job stops in the communities.
Have you thought about doing something about this?
We understand that when any staff is out of their position for training or for holidays or for whatever reason, their job function is certainly affected.
We manage it on a case-by-case basis in various ways. In some cases, for permitting and things like that, we have another agency take it over.
With the purchasing of furs and sealskin, which is a really important role, we usually have other staff brought into the community on a regular basis to provide that service or other similar arrangements, including having local hunters and trappers organizations provide some assistance.
Overall, in each region, the regional manager is responsible for providing services to all communities.
If there is a vacancy, it’s the manager’s responsibility to ensure that the department’s services are provided during that time.
Minister, I can probably tell you that that does not happen. I’m speaking to you from the community’s perspective.
You stated that the job can be taken over by somebody else and that must be the case where non-trained people take over once in a while.
Your concern is about when all of the conservation officers come to a course at the same time.
I know that at those times, we don’t have any replacements.
However, we were referring to when the conservation is out on holidays or taking a short taking program. We send people there to go help the office for a while.
We know that all conservation officers go for a training program at the same time. They just completed one in Iqaluit and they spent quite a bit of time here.
That is to help them do their jobs better, to advance in their careers, for government employees like conservation officers. That’s why they come here. They’re trying to improve their situation and their jobs.
In regard to your concern, I can’t think of any solutions right now for when all of the conservation officers in the regions come to Iqaluit at the same time.
We will have to put some more thought into that.
Although the hon. minister stated that, I believe he included the HTO.
HTOs sometimes take over the conservation officer’s roles and responsibilities. That’s why I had asked this question. Do you train HTOs to carry out the roles and responsibilities of environmental technology?
Is that why they replace or do the work?
My acting deputy minister will respond.
What I intended to describe previously was that it’s not that we give the responsibilities to the HTO. It’s managed in each community on a case-by-case basis by the regional manager whose responsibility it is to ensure service delivery. In some cases, certain responsibilities have been temporarily handed over to HTOs, occasionally to the local Royal Canadian Mounted Police for issuing permits.
To other staff or to whatever arrangements the manager can make to best provide the services when there is somebody absent from the community.
It’s not that we give it to the HTOs, but the manager is responsible for service delivery and makes whatever arrangements they think works best under the circumstances.
The deputy minister stated that the HTO sometimes take over if the conservation officer leaves so that’s why I’m asking this question, because it was mentioned.
I do believe that the HTO doesn’t need to do the work of the conservation officer.
Do I understand correctly, if a conservation officer needs to leave for illness, for training, or for meetings or workshops, their work is continues even though they’re absent from the community at the local level?
I’m sure we took part in HTO meetings. Having to support each other when the conservation officer has to leave because the HTO has their managers.
I, too, know that when I was a member of the HTO sometimes HTO members if the conservation officer is away they do the work.
I just wanted to elaborate a bit on that.
In regards to the member’s question, my deputy will elaborate further on the response.
When a staff person is absent from their position for whatever the reason, work does not continue as usual because the person is not there.
We take whatever measures are available at the time to ensure minimal interruption in service delivery. The responsibility falls back to the regional managers.
In regards to staffing, who decides that this community requires additional conservation officers?
Whether it is wildlife issues or terrestrial wildlife issues, the community knows exactly what to do within Nunavut. The busiest conservation officers in the communities.
I know that if we continue to develop according to our knowledge we try to do that as they become busier.
According to my knowledge as the minister, not one of them came to my office.
We consult with them on how they are operating according to the community how the community is busy the conservation officers who work for the government. According to how busy they are, that’s how we know if they need additional conservation officers.
Do I understand then that the community does not take part when they want to request for an additional conservation officer because the environment officials are the ones that make the decision on whether they require an additional conservation officer.
Does the community have a say whether they need to get an additional conservation officer?
The HTOs know, too, about these issues, especially with those entities because they keep working with our department.
We can initiate, but just Department of Environment officials, because we’re not the only ones that review whether they need additional staff. We also involve the HTO when we have to make a decision.
Do I understand correctly if the HTO thinks that they an additional conservation officer, then if they make a recommendation then the Department of Environment will work with them?
Yes, the HTO will take part in the review.
By working together, that’s how we deal with it.
Do I understand that if the HTO feels that they require an additional conservation officer that they can request for one through your department?
They can also utilize their MLAs.
I’m asking about the HTOs in the communities. If he can respond to that, I would be very pleased.
As I stated earlier, that the HTOs are always involved when they’re looking at how busy they are and how the wildlife issues can be dealt with.
I’ve already mentioned it.
I am very pleased that the HTO is also involved.
The question that I have is that if they believe that they require an additional conservation officer, can they request for one through your department?
I can only say that the HTO is always involved in the communities of Nunavut. In wildlife issues, the HTOs and communities know how busy they are.
I know that the HTOs, and I have seen this personally because I was a previous member of the HTO and other board and agencies, I know that they can work closely together and know about each other. That’s how I responded.
The HTOs are the ones that know about the wildlife issues at the local level. So therefore, they can work with our department, if we need to review the fact that they need an additional conservation officer in the community.
I don’t think I’m getting a response, Mr. Chairman. I’ll move on.
With your permission, Mr. Chairman, under page I6 if that’s ok with you, Mr. Chairman? Or should I wait until we go to I-5? I’m not sure where and when I should be asking my question.
If you can educate me. I want to talk about the top grants under I-6.