EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Chairman: Thank you Mr. Minister.
Comments from the Chair of the standing committee.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): Yes, Mr. Chairman, thank you, and thank you to the minister and the president of the Housing Corporation, Peter Scott.
Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to provide you with my comments as the Chair of the Standing Committee on Infrastructure, Housing, and Economic Development.
The committee has reviewed the 2004-05 main estimates and business plans of the Nunavut Housing Corporation and had the opportunity to meet with the minister in April.
Committee members are aware that the minister has been lobbying his federal counterparts to increase funding for public housing in Nunavut.
In addition, members were pleased to note that the minister is working with NTI to lobby the federal government on this issue.
Recognizing that there is a housing crisis in Nunavut, members urge the minister to investigate every avenue to increase the housing stock including private-public partnerships, federal infrastructure funding, partnerships with Inuit organizations, and joint initiatives with other Government of Nunavut departments.
Members are concerned that adequate models do not exist to illustrate the staggering need for housing in Nunavut.
Models can be an extremely important lobbying tool when the minister goes to Ottawa.
Committee members believe the need exists for a comprehensive study to gather detailed accurate information on housing in our territory.
Members are concerned that waiting lists that are kept by local housing organizations do not illustrate the actual need, because many people do not apply for housing because they know that there is none available.
Committee members recognize that the cost of building a home includes land development costs, and land acquisition is very expensive.
These can be extremely high in some communities.
Members urge the minister to work with his colleagues to bring these costs down as an incentive for people who would like to build their own home.
Committee members believe that the current public housing structure which utilizes local housing organizations as housing maintainers should be reviewed.
It is believed that many of the functions currently undertaken by LHOs could be accomplished more efficiently through contracts through the private sector and we will elaborate on that later on.
Fairness and transparency are values that must be respected across the government.
Members are concerned with respect to the corporation’s policy when entering into lease arrangements for units.
The Government of Nunavut has limited resources and must get value for every dollar spent.
Members urge the minister to ensure that the corporation does not pay for leases on units that are not habitable.
Members were pleased to hear the minister’s announcement regarding the new seniors’ four-plex project that will be taking place in Clyde River.
Committee members urge the minister to concentrate efforts on more projects that involve the community as a whole and respond to the community priorities.
Members are also pleased that the initiative will provide employment for local trainees.
Members are especially pleased that the Clyde River project is using designs chosen by the community.
Members continue to urge the minister to work on housing designs that clearly reflect the needs of Northerners.
Committee members are concerned that homeowners are being forced to sell their homes and move into public housing because of the cost of operating and maintaining a home.
Members urge the minister to review home ownership programs to provide support to homeowners.
Members are concerned that the Nunavut Housing Corporation is already projecting a deficit for 2004-05 related to utility costs for public housing units for utility costs.
Members urge the minister to work with his colleagues to ensure that utility costs remain manageable.
Members are concerned that funding from the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation for the Social Housing Agreement will sunset in 2037.
That was a concern for the members of the standing committee.
In addition, members are concerned that there is no federal money for operating and maintaining units that are built using funding from the Canada Strategic Infrastructure Fund.
Members urge the minister to continue lobbying for a new social housing agreement.
Members are pleased that the corporation continues to monitor the effects of the Public Housing Rent Scale. The standing committee looks forward to reviewing the documents related to consultations with local housing organizations regarding the new rent scale.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Curley. (Interpretation ends.)
I would like to remind members of the following: according to rule 77 (1) you have ten minutes to speak, and according to rule 77 (2), subject to discretion of the Chair, a member may speak more than once to a matter under discussion, but not until every member wishing to speak has spoken.
I suggest to members that wherever possible you ask your detailed questions during the page-by-page review of the departmental estimates.
Do members have any general comments? Mr. Barnabas.
I would like to talk about the concerns that were raised in my constituency in regards to housing.
You are aware we are in the process of building four-plexes and duplexes in the smaller communities.
But these already have problems. We have already seen the problems, in Clyde River and Hall Beach, that these duplexes have.
When the units are together there is no fire escape, there is only one exit.
So there’s a concern when there was a fire in Hall Beach…. This concern was raised, and single dwellings have no fire exit, and there is only one exit door, and there is no sprinkler system in those apartment buildings.
I have been a firefighter myself, I know that the extinguishers can only last for eight seconds.
For that reason I believe that the department’s minister has to look at the safety equipment to make sure that this safety equipment is adequate for new duplexes.
The duplexes can only be purchased by people that have lots of money, such as the government.
During the construction of the duplex nobody can purchase these units because everybody would like to purchase one unit.
The smaller communities don’t have elders’ facilities, especially convalescent homes in the smaller communities.
Also, this was a concern raised: there were eleven units back in 1999; these units were taken by Nanisivik.
There was no concern whether the place was contaminated but later on, after it was constructed, they found out about the contaminants, and even though the Arctic Bay residents required more housing units….
Also, public housing, or the leased units which the teachers and the staff of the Government of Nunavut lease out; it’s starting to become evident that these leased units are not inspected properly.
For example, the power bills that some teachers pay are about $300 a month.
Just for the power bill alone, and that’s not including the lease or the rent.
So, these have to be checked to make sure that these units are adequate, especially if they are being leased by the government.
I have no more names on my list for general comments.
We will now proceed to a page-by-page review of the departmental estimates.
We are starting with page L-6.
Any questions on this page for the corporate summary?
L-7.
Information page.
Headquarters.
The information item.
I would like to talk about it, in regards to Arviat.
Some of us would like to write correspondence to Arviat office, but we don’t know who would be responding to our correspondence in regards to home ownership.
There were a few applications for the home ownership last year, but there was no response even though they applied for home ownership.
If I could ask, home ownership repair program…. If you could provide us with a breakdown. Arviat residents mainly took advantage of that program but some of the Rankin Inlet residents were unable to get a response, even though they applied more than once.
Would you be able to rectify this situation?
Yes, I would like to see them responded to.
On my colleague’s concern, I will have my officials elaborate.
For those applicants, whether they got what they want, whether they got denied or approved.
They have to know whether they were approved or denied.
These individuals wanted to be responded to whether they were approved or denied.
They would like to know.
But for those who have been approved…. I have seem some individuals. I have been living there for two years.
Their windows are new now.
These old units were HAP housing.
Their windows…. In the original HAP housing, the insulation is really bad around the windows.
Is it possible there are individual homeowners that need assistance?
Perhaps some of the homeowners did not qualify.
So, that’s why nobody responded to them?
Perhaps if they did not qualify for the home ownership repair program they should respond to them whether they were approved or not.
When the doors in the old units get too old….
I have seen more than one, the windows in the Keewatin region — that is one of the harshest, coldest climates.
As the minister, what is the cap on the homeowners repair program?
If we can’t get a loan from your department, then if we can’t afford to get a bank loan, then we just leave them in need?
. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The homeowners repair program has a cap of $33,700.
Yes, when they first got their home, I am sure that if you have $33,000, and you need $33 thousand dollars, I do not think you can afford to get a half-house.
I am sure the price went up.
Do you have any idea when you will be making changes, because some people with a salary of $50,000 cannot really afford this or that.
So, I was wondering if you considered this in the past.
I am concerned now, and I do not know whether my colleague and I are talking about the same issue; $33,750 dollars is what I am talking about for the home repair.
I think I just gave the cap.
Perhaps for his second question, if I can ask him to rephrase his question.
What I am trying to say is that this $33,000, is that the cap?
If his salary is $33,000, they do not qualify for that program. Are they not eligible for that program?
Perhaps your deputy minister understands.
Some of the applicants were confused.
They were confused on whether they were eligible, or whether they made too much money, they made over the required eligiblity, if they went over the required eligibility.
Yes, the cap is set in the community.
There is a community cap and they just follow the community cap to date.
Mr. Chairman, it is evident that there are many more homeowners that require assistance or support.
The applicants’ maintains are the same as the ones who have been asking in the past and we have agreed to review the home ownership assistance program because we have to respect that homeowners require more assistance.
I just would like more clarification: if you are making too much money, you are not able to apply for an access home?
And so for the old homes, they are very cold. Maybe they are like that only in the Keewatin region because they are very high and they also have a septic tank.
They are very cold, they are very drafty, and there was a youth that was living in one of those houses and I was there.
The utility bills are very expensive because of the cold.
There has to be some kind of a program where they could get assistance for this.
My director, on my right, will be responding to you.
Chairman (interpretation): Mr. D’Arcy.
Mr. D’Arcy: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The funding level currently in the home repair program is $33,750, however the maximum household income to get the grant is on average about $96,000 in the territory.
And, as we know, we’re investigating that over the year.
It also is a sliding scale, so the minimum that a person will be able to receive under this program would be $15,000; if you made on average $96,000 in the territory, and the maximum would be $33,750.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you Mr. D’Arcy.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): Thank you, yes, I understand that now, thank you.
Even if the applicants are not successful, can you please let them know in writing that they have not been accepted.
My last comment that I would like to make: in my home community, there are old-age pensioners who are seventy years old; this person is aging, and he or she has an access home.
Even through the cracks, snow comes in.
These are persons with a wheelchair, and more than three feet of snow on top of the house, and he has to remove the snow themselves, and we looked at this, and we asked if it could move to another dwelling….
Who would we write to if an elder like this is having problems?
Hon. Peter Kilabuk: Thank you Mr. Chair.
I’m pleased to clarify: you would have to go through the office in Arviat; that is where you would go.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): The individual is retired; he had worked with NTPC for a number of years.
And right now, this spring, it was overflowing around that corner, he wishs he bought the house himself.
I will give you a copy right now.
The snow was removed by the hamlet; these are the comments that I would like to make and I will ask more questions later.
I do not have any more names available to me.
We will take a break for 30 minutes.
We’ll have a mini-break for half an hour.
>>Committee recessed at 18:09 and resumed at 18:40
Chairman (interpretation): We can begin.
We are on L-7.
Headquarters, Nunavut Housing Corporation, just an information item.
Mr. Curley (interpretation): I would just like to make a comment, Mr. Chairman.
The Housing Corporation is a very important department, Mr. Minister, because we are proud of them, and also that they are now looking after the staff housing as well.
I will not be naming names, but I would just like to make some comments concerning housing.
I know that when you were in that portfolio, or your deputy, or the president, I should say… .
The tenders, were they completely open to the public? Because while I am MLA I would not want to compete when people needed housing.
I am representing the business owners. Since we are elected it seems that it was this going done under that table.
I would not like to be seen this way when I am in the Legislature during my term.
I would not like to see something happen this way again, when there is housing available, when you are going to rent, that it would have to go through the government.
If there was something done like this, what I would like to hear is if that something like this will be done again.
I can answer you this way: my staff and my officials are learning since we have started. Yes, we will be open, and I will continue to have talks along these lines.
We have to make sure that we have material available to be well understood by all communities, and to avoid these kinds of things again.
There are no more names.
Go to L-8.
Debt payment.
I would just like to ask the minister and his officials if they could clarify… . It says debt repayment. Does it refer to the long-term loans from the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation?
The Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation has a debt owed of $196,177,000 at the end of March 31.
That was the total of the debt that the Government of Nunavut owes to the Canada Mortgage Housing Corporation.
And then, just, they say the Canada Mortgage Housing Corporation provides a contribution for the Nunavut Housing Corporation to pay for the additional charges of $28,003,000.
Could you clarify how that works?
Do they give us a loan, we pay the interest and debt, and then they give us a contribution to help pay the additional charge?
What are the additional charges?
Hon. Peter Kilabuk (interpretation): I apologize.
I want to be understood.
The funding that we do get, we pay for our debt.
That is the repayment requirement to that until today.
Almost clear. They are giving us a loan and they are going to give us a contribution to pay back the loan and our interest on the loan; how are we supposed to understand this?
Hon. Peter Kilabuk (interpretation): Yes. If you allow me, Mr. D’Arcy will clarify this.
I will start again.
Canada Mortgage Housing Corporation pays us around $60 million a year.
Part of that is this $28 million in the debt reduction.
Obviously, there is a schedule that goes out to 2037-38, where that amount will go down over time.
What we meant when we said the additional charges of $28 million was additional to our base Government of Nunavut funding of $79 million dollars, we are investigating changing that verbiage for next year to make sure it is clear.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. D’Arcy.
Mr. Peterson: No further questions.
We are on page L-8.
L-9, “Mamianaq.”
During the standing committee what they talked about is, we have to almost revise these on operations and maintenance; the local housing associations are running in debt.
They are using up a lot of funding and I do not think any of these associations are making any.
Do they have review exercises like mechanical? If they can be contracted out, that this is going to work, that they would be paying them.
The maintenance of the rent collection… . I would like to know if you have thought about anything like this.
This way, I feel that we would not be using so much funding if this is run by Housing.
Some of the hamlets do not want to have the local housing within the hamlet.
Yes, in some communities this is being used, but it has been a hard time for the staff.
Yes, we are completely open to the communities.
I have a question for the minister and his staff.
The district office sets the region priorities.
We understand from reading over the last few months, we’ve been reading stuff in the media where we have immediate needs for 3,900 housing units. We now need $1.5 billion over the next twenty years for housing.
Then a community like Arviat has 120 people on the waiting list. In Cambridge Bay we have between 50 and 70.
I was wondering, how do the district offices establish regional priorities, how housing would be allocated, constructed, from year to year?
That question I will give to Mr. Scott.
Mr. Speaker: Mr. Scott.
Peter Scott: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
As far as there would be… . Most of the capital planning, particularly on new construction, is done at the director headquarters level.
Recommendations are put together, based on input from all the district offices as well, for decision to the Financial Management Board.
The districts have their own capital budgets for Nunavummi Nangminiqaqtunik Ikajuuti projects and minor capital, which they then work with the LHOs to determine what the priorities are on community-by-community basis.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Scott.
Mr. Peterson: Thank you Mr. Chairman.
I’m not quite sure I understand it. If Arviat needs 120 housing units, and Cambridge Bay needs 50, and some other town needs 15, how do you decide where your annual budget will be used to construct housing units in the various communities?
If you could give me some clarification on that.
Mr. Speaker: Mr. Minister.
When it comes to the distribution of units to the communities, it has been the practice over the last few years to try to evenly distribute the units, looking at Nunavut as a whole.
If we were to look at the waiting lists today, it is quite lengthy, and we have many families on the waiting lists.
For an example, Mr. Chairman, 127 is the highest number on the waiting list that we see today.
Next is 119, third down is 102, fourth down is 85 and it just goes on, and on, and on, right down to the last eight communities, under 20.
So, one of the things that I am seriously looking at is to see if we can do to better meet the needs in communities where there are more people on the waiting list, to reduce the problem at the other communities where the immediate need is nowhere near as great as the communities with the biggest needs.
So, when it comes to the priority list for the reallocation of the units, it has not been the practice over the last few years for the district offices, or the regional offices, to decide as to which communities get what.
So, this is currently something I am taking a very close look at with my staff to see if there are some better ways to distribute for the communities that are in dire need.
Mr. Peterson: That’s good to hear, because there are communities in Nunavut where there is a high population growth, very fast. There’s people moving in from one community to another for employment opportunities, for education, and that is putting heavy pressure on the community.
There’s got to be a system in place, I think, that better distributes the available housing towards where it’s really needed. There might be some communities in Nunavut that don’t need any housing but are getting it right now, so like the per capita community distribution of every community, build at least two houses and one community needs fifteen or twenty right away. That should be taken into consideration.
That is just a comment, Mr. Chairman.
We are at the end of L-9.
Names or questions?
Moving on to L-10.
On local housing associations, what the minister stated is well understood.
For staff housing, I feel that they should go through contract.
Maintenance is a large issue under the housing association, and every year it is about the same.
We’re talking millions every year.
For that matter, I feel we should look at people who have been employed for a long time. I feel that it should be privatized, especially on O and M, that they use these for maintenance.
It would be more leverage, like not within just one year.
I feel that it could be better if we do it this way.
For example, if people are employed, so that they are able do this on a contract.
I would like to know how you feel about this.
Yes, I know that the member really feels that the contractors can take over the maintenance part of their houses in the communities, so that there could be more funding to build houses.
When we do reviews on our departments, we will consider the member’s comments and I will work with my staff to see how we can do what the member is asking. I will talk with my cabinet colleagues to find out more about how we can deal with the wish of the mMember, what the member is asking.
Affordable housing program. Turn to page L-11.
This is an information item.
Go back to page L-4.
Nunavut Housing Corporation. Department summary.
Total, operations and maintenance, $79,171,000.
Is the committee agreed that the Housing Corporation is completed? Sorry. $79,171,000.
Chairman: The committee is agreed that the Nunavut Housing Corporation is concluded?
Chairman: Thank you. Housing Corporation main estimates is complete.
I would like to thank the minister and his officials for appearing before us this evening.
Chairman: There is a motion on the floor to report progress.
All those in favour of the motion raise your hand.
(Interpretation begins.) In favour of the motion to report progress?
We can now deal with a different department.
I would like to ask the Minister of Executive and Intergovernmental Affairs to make his opening remarks.
Thank you for this opportunity to address the Committee of the Whole.
My staff are not here at the moment, but I will read my opening remarks.
I am pleased to present the review of the 2004-05 for the Department of Executive and Intergovernmental Affairs.
Executive and Intergovernmental Affairs has the smallest departmental budget in the government.
This budget continues to build upon the principles, goals, and objectives committed to in Pinasuaqtavut and to advance Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit across all sectors of the government.
As I will outline, our budget is also critical to coordinating and representing the interests of the Government of Nunavut and all Nunavummiut in our dealings with the Inuit organizations and the federal government.
I am pleased to report that on both these fronts our past efforts are producing results.
With your continued support, I look forward to Executive and Intergovernmental Affairs continuing its central role in implementing the goals of our government set by the members of this House.
Executive and Intergovernmental Affairs’ Mission and Role