EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Clause 17 of Bill 16 has been amended to provide that the minister’s report on the administration of the Act is to be tabled in the Legislative Assembly on an annual basis.
The standing committee anticipates that the contents of this report will be of significant interest to all Members of the Legislative Assembly, as well as the general public and stakeholders in the tourism sector.
The other major amendment added a new provision to the bill which will require regulations respecting commercial passenger vessels and pleasure craft to be made within one year of the coming into force of this section of the legislation.
As Nunavut experiences an increasing volume of cruise ship traffic, the timely development of these regulations becomes more critical in respect to such issues as regulating the number of passengers who may disembark in a community at any one time.
I am pleased to note that the standing committee and the minister undertook a thoughtful and productive dialogue during her recent appearance concerning issues related to the tourism industry and its impact on the territory.
One of the major themes that emerged during the standing committee’s deliberations was the importance of building administrative capacity in all Nunavut communities to ensure that the provisions of the legislation can be effectively enforced, including any restrictions or prohibitions on activities resulting from the designation of Restricted Tourism Areas.
Another theme was the importance of developing a consultation process under subsection 14(1)(n) of the legislation regarding the designation of Restricted Tourism Areas that respects the role of elected municipal councils in making formal recommendations to the minister concerning such designations.
The standing committee recommends the passage of Bill 16, as amended and reprinted, to all members.
I have a question about your opening comments.
Cruise ships are starting to come up more and more in our waters and we get concerned about them and we talk about them.
Thinking about the future, how is it going to be managed by our government?
Hon. Monica Ell-Kanayuk (interpretation): I tried to press the button when someone else was pressing their button, Mr. Chairman.
I think there is a misunderstanding.
Did he ask when this Act would come into effect or what was the question?
I would like him to clarify his question.
Mr. Qirngnuq, can you clarify your question?
I’m asking about the cruise ships that take tourists up through our oceans. They’re beginning to come in the summertime through our waters and we get concerned about them.
How are they going to be managed in the future?
I hope my question was understandable.
The Department of Economic Development and Transportation is going to have to create regulations under the Act that will deal with cruise ships. We have to create regulations to address the concerns coming from the communities.
This will be my final question as I don’t have many questions.
I just want some clarification. That is why I’m asking questions.
The cruise ships are big and they carry passengers. They can even carry over 1,000 passengers and that is a great number of people to arrive on one ship.
They go into some communities that have smaller populations than the ship’s population.
What if something were to happen?
These cruise ships carry passengers or tourists. Once we make the regulations, we will consider your community and determine how many passengers your community can handle at a time. The passengers may have to take turns going ashore.
That can be included in the regulations.
My questions are based on the minister’s opening comments.
There are no page numbers, but on the first page in the English, my first question will be in regard to the Marine Tourism Regulations that will be created to address cruise ships that carry tourists.
It states, (interpretation ends) “appropriately regulated.” According to whom?
These regulations that we would create would be done with the communities in mind and through agreements with the communities.
You are all aware I already asked a question to the minister about this and you know that cruise ship tourism really affects Pond Inlet.
As Pond Inlet and the surrounding area are beautiful, more and more tourists want to come and see it, and it’s no wonder.
However, many of us have concerns about the proper management of tourists.  We’re always thinking about this.
We see that whenever cruise ships are landing anywhere near Pond Inlet, tourists can get off the ship and then they walk around anywhere they want. Wherever there may be artefacts, they aren’t even supervised because there are so many of them.
Here we are, Inuit of Nunavut, and we are told, “Don’t touch it. Leave it the way it is.”
Who is monitoring all of these cruise ship passengers?
Who is going to keep these passengers from removing artefacts from the ground and make sure they’re not collecting our precious artefacts that Inuit are not supposed to touch?
I’m not sure what the Inuktitut word is for (interpretation ends) tourism officers, (interpretation) but they would be responsible for that in the communities.
These regulations are not completed yet, but once they are drafted through our staff at Economic Development and Transportation, they will agree with what the communities need so that the regulations can be pertinent and as good as we can develop for the communities.
We will consult with the communities to see what they want in the regulations before we pass them.
We don’t have much authority to handle the places where these cruise ships go, but what we can handle is when they are getting off the boat in a community, we can limit the number of passengers that come off at the same time.
What I am talking about is the regulatory responsibility involving other entities, including the (interpretation ends) Nunavut Impact Review Board, (interpretation) the Department of Culture and Heritage and the Department of Environment through the Nunavut government. Federal departments also have regulations.
We will keep the cruise ships informed as to what the different regulations are.
She said that they would be monitored by regulations.
Do these ships need approval for anchoring anywhere, whether it’s within a community or surrounding areas? If they are going to be dropping their anchor, do they need approval for that from such entities that you just referenced?
The GN does not have the power to regulate cruise ships that are used solely or partly for navigation. It’s a matter of exclusive federal jurisdiction.
Can she answer my question?
Hon. Monica Ell-Kanayuk: I thought I answered it by saying that if the ships are solely used for navigation, it’s a matter of federal jurisdiction.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Thank you for that information.
What I’m trying to ask is: for all the ships carrying tourists that are going to be anchoring anywhere, whether it is by a community or a surrounding area, do they require any kind of approval? If they require approval to anchor their ship, then who makes that decision?
We cannot tell them where to anchor through regulations.
What we can do is if they are going to get off the ship, then we can apply the regulations.
Do I understand correctly that they can anchor anywhere they please? However, you can tell them, “If you anchor in a specific area, you may not disembark.” Can you tell them that?
Hon. Monica Ell-Kanayuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also thank the member for wanting to have this important information clarified.
The following is just an example. They drop their anchor in a place named Sannirut and a few hundred passengers disembark and begin to tour Sannirut.
Who will be monitoring these tourists to make sure they are not touching or taking any historical artefacts? If there were 500 tourists, whose job is it to look after them all?
I’m not familiar with the place Sannirut, but I believe it’s just an example.
We have tourism officers and if they apply the regulations as they are supposed to, then we would use wildlife officers and conservation officers from the communities.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Thank you. Do I understand correctly that the tourism and wildlife officers will be aboard the cruise ship and travel to each community as well? Will they follow to each community to monitor the tourists?
To ensure Mr. Enook understands the answer clearly, I will have our Director of Policy, Matthew Bowler, respond to the question.
Chairman: Mr. Bowler.
Mr. Bowler: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Two of the elements of the cruise regulations that we’re looking at are the requirement to file itineraries and that will help us know where cruise ships are going and we will be able to impose a code of conduct on cruise ships.
I recognize that doesn’t answer the question of whether we will have tourism officers, but those are two provisions that will allow us to better understand where cruise ships are going and what they’re doing. It will apply as a standard to them to follow and there can some consequences if they don’t adhere to that standard.
I thought I was making myself very clear.
Even if we know where the ship is going, it doesn’t make much of a difference if we can’t do anything about what they should be doing like leaving artefacts alone. It doesn’t make any difference if we know where they’re going.
You said that you would know where the ship was.
That’s not my concern and that’s not my question.
My concern is that when they go on land, who will be monitoring them?
If there were going to be 500 passengers in Sannirut or anywhere on the land, who would monitor their activities? Are you now going to have a monitor who will make sure that artefacts are not disturbed once they have returned to the ship?
I also thank the member for those questions.
We can set a code of conduct that will apply to the cruise ships. If there are any sites you don’t want disturbed, we can tell the cruise ship company in advance under the code of conduct and we can also tell them that they should have a guide with them.
Are there always tourism officers or monitors on the cruise ships?
Do you already have those monitors on board?
No, the monitors are not on the cruise ships at this time.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Are you going to have monitors once this legislation is enacted?
We haven’t thought about setting that out in the regulations.
If passengers were going to go on land, then the tourism guide would be there and also community concerns could be outlined.
I’m just using Pond Inlet as an example. Prior to the cruise ship coming in, possibly a 100 miles away from Pond Inlet, if they want to land and they have received approval, you indicated that somebody would be able to get on board as a monitor once they go on land.
Does that mean that they would have to go to Pond Inlet to get the monitor and then they go to the site that they would like to visit?
These are the things we will be looking at doing as we’re drafting the regulations.
Chairman: Ms. Rowe, can you repeat?
You didn’t have your mic on.
These are the things we will be looking at as we’re drafting the regulations.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) And that’s precisely the problem that we have. (interpretation) Once the regulations have been drafted, our concerns are not always applied.
When you don’t say we will do this or we will not do that, you’re not even going to think about us when you’re creating the regulations.
It’s something that’s very hard that I would like to see.
You might also have to think about getting more employees and I know that it’s going to be hard for you to apply those kinds of regulations, but it’s something that’s very important to our community.
The bill might be good, but when you start putting the regulations in, all the goodness is taken out.
It’s going to have a huge impact on the communities and please remember that as I will not forget it.
Mr. Chairman, I have another question. One of the main goals is to “Ensure tourism development aligns with local priorities and Inuit societal values.”
Can my colleague identify where it is in the bill?
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, it’s in the minister’s opening comments on page 1. It says (interpretation ends) “The main goals of the amendments are to...” (interpretation) In Inuktitut, “The main goals of the amendments are to” and I read the fourth one.
Hon. Monica Ell-Kanayuk (interpretation): The fourth main goal in my opening comments relates to tourism regulations and policies, which we want feedback on from the communities and their views on these issues that I spoke to and what they want promoted or not, those kinds of things.
The consultation on the local views on this and other matters referred to under policy development within the Nunavut government is where these issues arose from.
As an example, the need to be hospitable and welcoming, as well as the need for further training is where the policy addresses these concerns as brought forward.
It is well known that Baker Lake is beautiful and that we also have two beautiful heritage rivers. We usually get tourist from Europe and the United States.
My first question is: it states in your opening comments on the first page that you will “Maximize the economic benefits from tourism for Nunavummiut.”
How would it benefit ordinary citizens of Baker Lake if this bill is enacted?
We think this bill will benefit the communities.
We are going to be thinking about tourism safety guarantee.
It would include a safety net and it would also be up to par with industry standards (interpretation ends) so that the tourists are not misrepresenting their service or that they do not “misadvertise.”
I think that the regulations would give more of a standard, and also the tourist experience would be more reflective of the environmental beauty, as you mentioned.
Last year during the summer, outside of Baker Lake, there were American tourists who had a canoe accident. When they first started from the lake, they capsized and they had to go through the Kazan River. They wanted to canoe through there.
Earlier on you talked about the people who will watch the tourists. For example, for canoeists outside of Baker Lake, I know search and rescue and the Department of Community and Government Services are responsible for that. If this should happen, would you be working with the Department of Community and Government Services once this legislation is implemented?
Within the Government of Nunavut, search and rescue is primarily the responsibility of the Department of Community and Government Services.
Marine search and rescue is the responsibility of the Canadian Coast Guard. We have some anecdotal evidence that from time to time tourists, both guided and unguided, require search and rescue and this costs the Government of Nunavut or other public agencies.
Mr. Mikkungwak (interpretation): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) When we look at this Bill 16, Travel and Tourism Act, in your opening comments also on the last bullet it indicates, “Bring the Act into line with current Canadian and international tourism legislation.”
As I indicated, we do have tourists that are coming into Baker Lake, whether it be from Europe or the United States.
Would these have an impact or would there be improvements in reference to this particular bullet line item?
I’m not sure I follow the member, but I’ll try to answer.
The Travel and Tourism Act will provide for the authority to regulate matters applicable to guides, outfitters, and tourist establishments, as well as the development and management of the industry.
The Travel and Tourism Act was inherited from the Northwest Territories and has not been amended since 1992.
The content and actual practices of the tourism industry in Nunavut have changed greatly, and in certain areas the Travel and Tourism Act has become outdated and no longer reflects the reality of the tourism industry in Nunavut.
For example, the canoeists that go to Baker Lake come from the United States or Europe.
With this new amended legislation, it will be more for Nunavummiut and made in Nunavut.
I’ll ask this question. I know that there are quite a number of canoeing tourists. After this legislation has been passed, will there be an improvement for tourists and canoeists coming from the United States or Europe?
As tourism is one of Nunavut’s priorities in the economic sector, this is going to put the current Act in line by updating it.
It will allow for the creation of new Marine Tourism Regulations, which is not possible under the current Act.
Creating Marine Tourism Regulations enables the GN to properly regulate and account for commercial passenger vessels as well as the pleasure crafts that the member is talking about, especially at a time when bigger cruise ships are showing up, showing an interest in visiting Nunavut and public perception of marine tourism is increasing.
Mr. Mikkungwak (interpretation): I’m not talking about cruise ships, but it’s evident with the current mine development occurring, there will be more shipping traffic in Baker Lake. The question that I was just asking about is regarding canoeists, not motorized vessels.
They’re just canoeing and they use oars to row.
I’m trying to find out if there’s going to be an improvement for Baker Lake after this bill is passed.
I believe what he’s talking about would fall under “pleasure craft,” but at this time under the legislation, we can’t tell anyone when to come and when not to come. Once the regulations have been drafted, we will be able to regulate that they let us know when they will be coming.
That’s clearer now. I would like to thank the minister.
Below that, it states that “the Department of Economic Development and Transportation held a series of consultations in seven communities...” I just want to find out which communities you visited.
Iqaluit was consulted through a community meeting from September 22 to 24 during the (interpretation ends) Baffin trade show. (interpretation) We held a community meeting on September 25 in Pangnirtung. We held a community meeting in Rankin Inlet on September 28 and 29 and attended the (interpretation ends) Kivalliq Trade Show. (interpretation) We then met with the community of Naujaat on September 30.
We went to Pond Inlet on October 5.
We went to Cambridge Bay October 15 and held a public meeting.
We went to Gjoa Haven on October 16 and held a public meeting.
We also held a meeting in Iqaluit on October 23 with the Government of Nunavut. We discussed these matters during the tourism meeting and held consultation meetings with the tourism operators.
Mr. Mikkungwak (interpretation): Thank you, very much, Mr. Chairman.
I also thank the minister for providing that information.
I would like to urge the minister that when drafting the regulations, please consider Baker Lake carefully because Americans and Europeans come there. There are a significant number of canoeists and tourists who go there.
This might be my last question, but it will depend on your response. In your opening comments, if this legislation is passed, it states that it’s going to “Promote quality tourism services” and “Ensure tourism development aligns with local priorities” of communities that are visited. What exactly does that mean?
As I stated, once the regulations are drafted, we would consult with the communities and work with them to come up with the regulations.
As I stated, I could use what you say in relation to canoeists or in smaller boats that take tourists out. We would have to find out what kind of regulations communities want to see, such as when the tourists are coming into the community and whether they have to inform the community first before they come. This could be accomplished through these means.
Her response is very clear.
I’m just encouraging her department to consider Baker Lake when they draft the regulations because there’s high interest from tourists coming to the community. The small, single-engine planes landing in the water usually land in the community, so I’m urging your department to think about that too.
Chairman: Was that just a comment?
Welcome, Minister Ell-Kanayuk and your officials.
While we’re reviewing An Act to Amend the Travel and Tourism Act, you stated that you heard from different entities in the communities and you did consultation work through an online survey, conference calls, and webinar sessions.
Did you also hear from tourism operators?
Yes, as I stated earlier, we did that consultation work with stakeholders and tourism operators. We also consulted with (interpretation ends) other establishments, (interpretation) if I say it in English. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Perhaps I didn’t hear you, so I apologize.
What did you hear from the stakeholders or tourism operators? What was the main reason to amend the legislation?
Our officials also did telephone surveys from people in the communities and business owners.
They discussed numerous things. I can talk to you about many things, but the main ones are they asked for more information on the legislation and regulations.
I’m not sure where to start as there are many topics.
(interpretation ends) The idea of setting minimum standards was met with a mix of support and hesitation.
Many conversations turned towards implementation. There was concern about the current state of the Nunavut tourism industry and its unique realities. Supporters said that the minimum standards would create assurances about the level of service availability.
Some other things were discussed. Economic benefits to communities were identified as a reason why tourism industries exist in Nunavut. There was a solid support for economic benefits to be a priority.
Licensing was also discussed by the tourism operators that take visitors out on the land, on hikes, and bring them to some of Nunavut’s cultural and environmental sites. These topics focus on land-based tourism activities guided by licensed outfitters and local guides.
I’ll just stop there, Mr. Chairman, as I could just go on with that list.
Can she state currently how many different types of licences do tourism operators in the communities have to acquire? Will this legislation that we’re trying to amend add more licences that they will require?
I don’t think we’re trying to add additional types of licenses through the bill, but I can look into that. At the moment there are two types of licences and we’re not trying to add any more.
Going to another topic, I think one of the recommendations, according to what you’re hearing, is that there should be additional taxes for tourists that come up to Nunavut. How much have you thought about that and would you be including them in your regulations?
We had discussed it, but we’re not going to deal with it. We don’t expect to deal with it.
Even if you’re not going to deal with it today, will it be dealt with in the future?
Yes, if this is something they wish to consider in the future, they are able to do that.
Looking at the report you did on what you heard about amending the legislation, I also read that on page 9, tourists and community residents don’t understand each other enough.
For instance, tourists don’t understand community traditions enough, or community residents don’t understand where tourists come from and what they plan to do.
Perhaps you can elaborate further on how it would be added to this bill.
I’ll ask my Deputy Minister, Ms. Rowe, to respond to that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Hon. Monica Ell-Kanayuk (interpretation): I’ll have Matthew Bowler respond to that instead.
The idea is to add, through the Marine Tourism Regulations, a code of conduct which we would prescribe to cruise ships and cruise ships would need to abide by this code of conduct.
It could include, for example, cultural awareness training for passengers on the cruise ship.
As part of our licensing of the cruise ships, we would want to see a copy of the materials that they were using or some kind of summary of the program that they had to do this, to make sure that passengers were sensitive to residents and their concerns.
Have you identified who would provide the cultural awareness training to passengers?