EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
I know in the past, that’s how a lot of small businesses have started up.
A housing maintainer in his off hours for example, would assist a private home owner that required some assistance.
But that would be after hours on the individuals own time and obviously with the employers consent, that he or she do that work.
Mr. Chairman, my colleague was talking a little bit earlier about subsidies for staff housing.
I’m just wondering if the Minister can indicate what the range of subsidies is to people living in staff housing.
Mr. Chairman, as you know, the Housing Corporation just assumes responsibility for staff housing in its current fiscal year and we haven’t even completed a full fiscal year yet.
That’s coming up next week.
We’ll have a better idea of the full costs and that.
But I can tell you generally that if you have an employee that’s paying, and of course, members know that in staff housing it’s per unit, it’s not based on income right now.
If you have a unit of a thousand dollars, the government could be paying a lease rate of $2 thousand dollars, $25 hundred dollars in some other situations for that same unit, not including utilities.
So, we’re looking at generally an average of $1 thousand dollars to $1 thousand 5 hundred dollars a unit that we’re subsidizing right now.
That’s kind of a bench mark.
Like I said, we’ll have a better sense once the full fiscal year is completed.
We’ll have a sense as we work towards developing a new staff housing rental policy of some of the impacts of that.
It sounds like people that are in staff housing are anywhere from 50 percent and up by the looks of it, by the sounds of it.
I guess the point my colleague was trying to make earlier is that people that own their own homes don’t get anywhere close to that same kind of subsidy. I’m just wondering if the corporation is going to be taking on or looking at all the housing related stuff in one area, the employee rent assistance program or whatever it’s called is handled through the department of Finance right now is something that would be looked at going to the Housing Corporation and that these levels, I think that one right now, the threshold is 30%.
If they’re looking at streamlining it or trying to make something out there so that people that do have made in investment and into our territory and purchased their homes and made that commitment that they’ll get some kind of subsidy to assist them in the cost to maintaining their homes.
I think in the back of the business plan the average monthly shelter costs and that’s probably the average, below average, higher in most places, just around $550 dollars not including mortgage costs and especially here in Iqaluit where the demand is quite high.
Probably can’t find anything on the market under $225 thousand dollars.
They go up to $3 hundred and something and it’s not too many people can afford to buy a home like that without any kind of subsidies and I wonder if maybe it might be better to have a subsidy on home ownership and the thing for home owners rather than providing all the subsidy for staff housing it might be more of an incentive for people to get into home ownership.
We need to help take off the burden on the demand for staff housing that they’re I’m pretty sure that there is a huge waiting list right now and you see by all the jobs they could advertise with no staff housing.
That might be a way of looking at providing some kind of incentive to get people out of staff housing and into home ownership. I’m just wondering if that’s something that the minister or the corporation is looking at.
Mr. Chairman, I think the minister has been sitting too close to the Minister of Health; he’s starting to answer like him.
It’s good to see that some of his good qualities are rubbing off.
Can he indicate that its something they expect to see like in the next fiscal year or when we can expect to see any changes that’s just come about.
It’s hard to say and I could say that, like I said it is under consideration.
I don’t know, like I indicated in the past under what option its going to be coming forward in the next couple of months for consideration for the appropriate standing committees on the cabinet colleagues.
But I can tell you that it is being looked at internally at least right now prior to having some presentations of options for the standing committee and for cabinet.
Mr. Chairman, also under this area here it mentions that several of the communities and LHOs have responsibility for part or all of the home repair and home ownership programs.
These LHOs have basically been empowered or that responsibility devolved to the LHOs so that they’re the ones that are administrating those programs on behalf of the corporations that what’s happening there?
Mr. Chairman, that is ongoing work. There isn’t anything in place yet, from what I understand.
Maybe if he misunderstood my question, it says under here, it says several LHOs have the responsibility for part or all of the repair Homeownership Programs in 12-10 of the Main Estimates.
All those LHOs, are they delivering those Programs and Services on behalf of the Corporation.
I hope that makes it clear.
Mr. Chairman, that is if the Local Housing Authorities or Associations are willing to do that.
We used the example of here in Iqaluit where the District Office has moved now based in Cape Dorset.
It may be something that the Local Housing Authorities may be interested in doing, but certainly the Act is one of the first contact points for access to a lot of the Housing Corporation’s Programs, I mean from general information.
Mr. Chairman, I am specifically talking about the Iqaluit Housing Authority here.
When I look at that concept of having a community based organization delivering Programs and Services for the Corporation.
I was just asking if that was the case, have there been something that has been working out. Is it been going quite well.
Or have there been problems with it?
Basically, how is it going?
What I am getting at, Mr. Chairman, if it is working out, fine there.
Maybe it is something that the Corporation could sell an idea that it could sell to some of the other government departments in finding ways to become more effective, and more efficient, and more streamlined; if we could be able to deliver Programs and Services in the communities?
Generally, Mr. Chairman, it probably reflects fairly good relationship that the District Offices of the Housing Corporation have with the Local Housing Associations, or Authorities.
Over the years, there has been a pretty reasonable information flow back and forth and there is cooperation assistance in trying to help the clientele.
It is really just a natural progression in trying expand that when the request is there and the support is there.
Mr. Chairman, I know that the Minister is aware, that I worked with the Corporation in the Baffin District here, prior to division.
At that time all of the communities were delivering the Capital Programs for the Corporation through an agreement that they had with us.
I am just wondering if that is still the case, that the communities are still delivering these Programs, or not?
Mr. Chairman, it is more community specific depending on what their desires are.
Maybe if he can be more specific.
Can the Minister indicate which communities in the Baffin are delivering those Capital Programs through the LHOs in the Baffin?
I am pretty sure that all of them were pre-division.
I am just wondering if that is still the case, if not, which ones are?
Mr. Chairman, I believe that they are all involved in one form or another.
Just the degree of which parts and how much that they have taken on.
I do not have all the details here, but I can commit to providing that to the Members.
I noticed looking through the old Chart; I know that the true division there used to be I think 25 or so divisions in the Baffin District Office and down to 19 and the other two regions did not have quite the same ratio drop in PYs within the region.
But I know before division, every single community in the Baffin was delivering all of the capital programs and when you look at Clyde River, in one year, it was $2 million dollars worth of capital that they did.
I think a year or two before division within the Baffin District alone and that the number that they have used before, you know it is $25 million dollars worth of capital delivered and almost all of that was done through the LHOs in the communities.
And one of the things, hopefully that I would see that this drop in staffing levels that provided the support to the communities to enable them to do that has not disappeared and the will to try and work with them to be able to provide the LHOs with the capacities to be able to deliver those programs and services, which puts, in some cases, the ability for the LHOs to be able to hire more people that puts employment into every single community.
As a result of that, delivery of those programs and services are still in place and that it is not being, like we have seen in other cases sucked back into the Corporation level and we have seen actually community de-parliament taking place.
And I just want to make sure that that is not the case here.
Yes, I would agree with the Member.
The Minister had stated that the homeowners are given some support or assistance.
I did not quite understand his response.
So, if he is willing to clarify that, I would like that clarification.
He spoke about homeowners being given some support of some kind.
So, if he can elaborate that.
Mr. Chairman, if the Member was referring to my answer to Ms. Williams in respect of homeownerships, homeownership programs besides what we have available for potential homeowners.
For existing homeowners like where the Housing Corporation actually holds the mortgages such as the access programs where we provide subsidies based on levels of income of individuals.
The tenant to owner program that we are putting in place is the same thing.
The less income that family makes, the homeowner makes, then the more of a subsidy from the Housing Corporation would provide to that family or individual.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): What percent is the subsidy for the homeowners?
How much percent do you provide the benefits?
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Nr. Nutarak.
It differs, Mr. Chairman, depending on the level of income of the homeowner, I mean like I had indicated the less they make, the more subsidies that Housing Corporation provides, but it varies depending on you know, community cost, it varies depending on the family income situation of the homeowners, etc.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): The homeowners, where do they get subsidy, is it for the land lease, what kind of support do you provide for them?
There is a report provided in there, the mortgage, the principle repayments, in other words, the less that they make, the more that we would carry the difference in the payments.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): In reading the explanation, where is lease to own or staff units?
I was just asking questions in regards to the explanation here; perhaps if there was another explanation here that the home owners do get mortgage through the banks too.
It was never the case in the past so if you can give more detailed information and the explanation of this in the main estimates are that’s why I was kind of thrown off. That’s why I was asking those questions.
Mr. Chairman, the home ownership programs are a part of the capital estimates that we went through in the fall; this is more the operating and maintenance side.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Ng. Do you have any further questions?
I’d like to ask a question to the minister.
There is more than one unit in one of my communities that I represent, is not being used by staff because of the condition however; housing corporation or government is still probably leasing that, paying lease to this unit.
If that’s the case in a small community, are there many of these cases throughout Nunavut?
Mr. Chairman, I would say that generally no, that would be the exception versus the normal.
There is a high demand for staff housing.
There are problems with the particular unit or units in a community or throughout Nunavut I guess, we would try to work with the landlord to rectify those problems and they couldn’t be rectified obviously to see what recourse we would have as a government in respect to that unit with that particular landlord.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Ng. Going back to the page 12-10.
Mr. Arvaluk: Mr. Chairman, contract services.
Is this for the unit that private owner that are leasing to the housing corporation to house public or staff?
Mr. Chairman, this is the staff housing unit payments.
Staff housing unit payments to the private sector, are they mostly in Iqaluit?
All across Nunavut, it was the staff housing portfolio that was transferred from public works and services for the housing corporation on April 1st of this past year.
Mr. Arvaluk: Are these $30 million dollars worth, all to the private sector or some to the public works?
Mr. Chairman, its for all the cost in respect of maintaining the staff housing portfolio of that $28 million 310 thousand 865 is for leases.
There are other contract services. $1 million, 975 thousand dollars, these are for the utilities for those and it’s also $265 thousand dollars in there of staff costs for the staff housing tenant officers.
Mr. Arvaluk: Are these leases to the private for your staff housing all negotiated or do they have a standard rate to their rents because especially in Iqaluit, private sector lease rates are incredibly high.
An individual person coming from the community cannot, unless you put 100 percent of his salary on average, so the subsidy is quite high in others words.
It probably costs 2 or 3 times of that by the staff member who pays to the Government of Nunavut or the Finance Department and 30 percent of that or a part of that is coming from Housing Corporation.
Is there anything you can do to reduce the rent that is being charged by the private sector?
Mr. Chairman, first of all, all the lease arrangements were secured through requests for proposals from a public process and so given that, the competition and the market place, it’s reflective I think of the business climate environment here, particularly in Iqaluit.
In answering your question, it’s a market and supply issue really and once more units hopefully come on line, hopefully some of the pricing will go down but it’s more of our medium to longer term solution.
Mr. Arvaluk (interpretation): I did not raise my hand again.
Going back to page 12-10, information, information item.
If there are no further questions, turn the page to 12-11. information item.
And page 12-12, information item.
Mr. Arvaluk (interpretation): I would like to get clarification on other fees payments or other expenses, $8 million 327 thousand dollars for headquarters.
Is that the same funding for CMHC?
That’s the amortization payment we spoke of earlier.
On the contract services, is that $31 million dollars that we just talked about on the previous page and the total $31 million 390 thousand dollars, and here we have $30 million 991 and that $19 million is slated for Qikiqtaaluk, is that mostly because it’s in Iqaluit.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Yes, the member is correct on all his statements.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Ng. 12-12, Mr. Nutarak.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): Grants and Contributions, $30 million dollars, Baffin, is that to construct units?
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Nutarak. Minister Ng.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: That’s the portion for the Local Housing Authorities in Qikiqtaaluk. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): Also under contract services, what are they for?
That’s the leases for the staff housing units.
12-12.
We’ll move back to 12-4.
Do you agree that Nunavut Housing Corporation, I’m sorry, that Nunavut Housing Corporation, Department Summary, Housing Corporation.
Total Operations and Maintenance $77 million 516 thousand dollars.
Do you agree? Mr. Arvaluk.
This is my last comment on page 12-4.
I know there is a shortage of housing everywhere, especially in Iqaluit, however, with the housing shortage, isn’t there a sort of encouragement by the investment groups like Qikiqtaaluk Corporation and others who are in a position to get into housing investments.
Don’t they recognise that there is a housing need, so there is money to be had in housing?
Or is it because the utility or lease on the land is so great, that it’s not attacking house builders for lease or sale on the reasonable or affordable prices?
Mr. Chairman, it’s really an issue that beneficiaries should take up with their own designated Inuit organizations or Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated.
I don’t think it’s appropriate for myself as a non-beneficiary to speak about potential investments.
I can tell you that I met recently with the president of Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated to speak specifically on issues surrounding housing and housing needs, housing investment and I know that she’s quite concerned about the issue as well and is going to consider some possible options involving land claims funding.
I might not be very popular with the business sector of Nunavut but I think it has to be said that right now, if you look at the Bank of Montreal, the actual costs of building, not including the import labour, but if we had local labour, that building apartments or houses or whatever, homes, it’s not that exorbitant at cost.
Right now, we’ve been had by the private sector a lot of times, on housing, by the exorbitant rents prices, exorbitant private housing prices.
I have a very ordinary bungalow for $300 thousand dollars.
It’s a one story basic three bedroom.
I know it’s not made out of gold.
But because of some mystery reason they are very highly priced that only the government can rent and sublease it to their own staff, but with a subsidy.
There must be a way to rectify that.
There must be a way to say, okay, local municipal government or the town or the city of Iqaluit, we cannot really afford to build housing for rent because of your lease costs.
There must be something that that the Housing Corporation, Nunavut Government and federal government and town can discuss how to make affordable homes in Iqaluit.
But right now, it seems to be acceptable because nobody is suffering except the clients.
I didn’t hear a question; it was more of a comment.
Certainly the member brings up some valid points.
At the beginning, the people who were home owners, there’s a lot of money that is going to be paid to the homeowners that the government is leasing from.
My colleague, Mr. Puqiqnak, mentioned that some corporations wanted to build houses to lease, an Inuit organization wanted to build some houses to lease.
I just wondered why the Local Housing Authorities don’t talk to those individual corporations and work with them to build houses to be leased in those communities.
They Inuit organizations don’t seem to be given a chance because we could at least give them $19 million dollars to build houses.
I think we have to, because of the lack of housing in Nunavut communities, try to do everything to help each other in building houses.
Not a question.
It’s up to you Minister Ng if you want to respond to it.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Just the same Mr. Chairman, we would work with any group provided it was cost effective and dependable publicly, any arrangements that the Housing Corporation might enter into.
The people that built houses in the past, I just wondered why these people are not allowed to build their own houses anymore in the communities?
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Maybe Mr. Chairman, because we don’t have the HAP program that the member is referring to.
I think it would be better if that HAP program came back. It’s very expensive to hire a contractor to build a house for you in the community.
And they also have problems because the contractor knows that that house is not their own, they build it as quick as they can.
I just to wanted to bring that up to the Housing Corporation that they should try to do the best that they can to build the house.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: I agree. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairperson (interpretation): The Nunavut Housing Corporation Department Summary.
Nunavut Housing Corporation, Total Operations and Maintenance, $77 million 516 thousand, agreed?
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you. Do you agree that the Housing Corporation is concluded with?
Chairperson (interpretation): We will take a short 20 minute break.
I would like to tell the Minister as a Chairperson, I hope that you will be using Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit as that is our goal.
Thank you, Minister and your officials.
We will now take a 20 minute break.
After that we will move onto to Human Resources.
I too wish to thank the committee, their patience and staff for their assistance.
Chairperson (interpretation): 20 Minutes.
>>Committee recessed at 15:46 p.m. and resumed at 16:22 p.m.
Chairperson (Translation): We can start again.
The Minister responsible for Human Resources can now make his opening comments.
I’m pleased to appear today before the Standing Committee on Government Operations to present the 2003/04 Main Estimates and Business Plan for the Department of Human Resources.
The Department of Human Resources has been allocated to a total budget of $18.3 million.
The Inuit Employment Plan Program continues to be our lead priority.
In the coming year, the Department of Human Resources will be focusing many of our initiatives and programs on the implementation of IEP.
The establishment of the IEP Division will be responsible for the implementation, management and monitoring of Article 23 initiatives across all departments in the Government of Nunavut.
(interpretation ends) The IEP Program also will focus on training and development, as well as greater coordination of initiatives in all departments.
Specific initiatives include Management Development Program, Employment System Review, Assistant Deputy Ministers Development, Public Administration Certificate program, Specialized Training, Learning and Development, and including Awards and Recognition.
The implementation of the Inuit Employment Plan also will be supported by many initiatives in all divisions of the department including the implementation of the recommendations of the Employment Systems Review.
The objective of this review is to remove artificial and systemic barriers in our human resources systems, practices and procedures.
An important part of this project will be the critical and comprehensive review of the education work experience qualifications stated in job descriptions.
About $6 million or 1/3 of the department’s budget is allocated to Inuit Employment initiatives.
(interpretation) The Department of Human Resources will continue to support the Akitsiraq Law School program, Summer Students, Employee Orientation, Inuktitut Language and Employee Wellness programs.
These initiatives, which complement the training efforts of other departments, will ensure that the Government of Nunavut has a better trained and a more professional public service.
The department, in partnership with the Department of Finance will launch an integrated Human Resource Information and Payroll System in January 2004.
Our department has allocated $550 thousand for this project.
The department will have a complement of 83 staff including 14 Manager Interns who are being trained in various departments, and 7 new staff positions created to address operational needs in our department.
The Department of Human Resources is committed to provide efficient and effective human resource services to all departments and agencies.
We will continue our efforts in developing strategies and delivering programs in order to build a strong, stable and representative workforce, especially through the implementation of IEP.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I welcome comments from Committee Members at this time.
Before we move onto other items I will ask the chair of the Standing Committee to make his opening comment. Mr. Tootoo.
Mr. Chairman, before I start this one I want to clarify the minister is appearing before the committee of the whole not the standing committee on government operations.