EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Mr. Scott: One of the issues that may have caused some of these problems was that the marshalling yard that was partnered with our contractor in Montreal didn’t have full access to the entire compound that they had claimed that they would have access to.
So as the materials were arriving, and all of the materials were provided by our supplier on time by the middle of May, the marshal down there didn’t have access to the entire yard that he had committed to us that he had. So the first issue was the lack of space.
This year, initially, the new RFP for marshalling services for this summer, 2008-09, we’ve changed the specifications to ensure that there’s adequate space because, to provide the type of service, you need a substantial piece of real estate in order to be able to sort out and re-package all of our housing packages for each community.
Again, I understand that space was a problem. Were there any other things that are different? Mr. Scott indicated that an RFP has just gone out for next year or season.
Can he give us an indication of any other specific differences that they’ve changed in next year’s RFP that they learned from this past season?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Before we award the contract, we have to make sure that there is enough space to house the material and we will make sure that we do a total review of the applicants to make sure that we avoid the problems that we’ve encountered this year.
I hope that I was clear and Mr. Scott could also add to that.
Go ahead, Mr. Scott.
One of the changes that we’ve put in the RFP is, I believe, a requirement to provide office space for NHC staff that are down monitoring the marshalling.
We did have, between NHC staff and our contractor, sealift info. We actually did over 240 man days on the dock site last year. Maybe that wasn’t enough and maybe we have to have full time staff at the beginning of the sealift season which would be early April.
When the materials are starting to come in, have full time staff on site until the last ship sails. We will look at that as an option.
I thank Mr. Scott for that response.
I think it’s important that and I’ve always said that with any organization and with the government, if they do something, they should be evaluating and looking at it, and finding and addressing areas of concerns instead of pretending they’re not there.
I’m glad to hear that the corporation is looking at that and trying to address some of those issues and they’re evaluating how things went this summer or didn’t go.
Once that report or review is done, I’m sure there will, more than likely, be some other areas that will be looked at and changed in the future.
On this whole issue with this particular contract, I know, I recall hearing in the media at one point that the contractor had indicated that one of the problems on why that situation came about was that there was considerable volume of stuff that was delivered and wasn’t actually specified in the contract.
I’m just wondering if we can get a clarification on that from the minister and his officials.
The contract last year called for approximately 7,000 metric tonnes. It wasn’t an exact amount.
The amount that was delivered to the marshalling yards in Montreal was just less than 7,200 metric tonnes.
So in relationship, our estimate was fairly close.
We have been delivering five-plex packages to Nunavut for the last couple of years. We have a pretty good idea of how much weight and volume is involved in each of these five-plexs, so our estimate in the contract was very close to what was actually delivered to the yards.
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also understand that some of the things that may have led to delays to things being put on the boat had to deal with packaging and freighting. I’m just wondering if the specifications for that were outlined in the contract.
Yes, that was the case where they were specified for marshalling.
Can the minister give an indication if that was a problem this summer? Was there stuff that was refused by the shippers because the crating or specifications were below standards? Were they actually brought to the docks and sent back because they weren’t crated properly?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): Thank you. (interpretation ends) Not that we’re aware of, Mr. Chairman.
One thing that Mr. Scott mentioned earlier, it had to deal with having people on site down there. I guess maybe I would just ask the minister, if you look at the overall Nunavut Housing Trust delivery, it’s a huge undertaking.
I’m just wondering if one of the things that the minister feels is that the corporation has adequate human resources to deal with a project like that, considering and still maintaining all the other programs and services that are provided.
I’ll get Mr. Scott to respond to the question.
Certainly, the additional work load that was created as a result of the Housing Trust has put a tremendous strain on the corporation’s resources. The corporation only has 88 approved PYs, and currently we’re at about 75 percent capacity, so there are 22 vacant PYs.
Also, we are competing with a very hot market particulalry for technical trades and technical staff.
We’ve been able to fill some of our gaps and some of our holes with contract employees, but it has been a very difficult task to attract the types of resources that we need in order to complete the delivery.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Scott. Mr. Tootoo.
I just wonder if the minister could commit to include that aspect of it in the review of this year’s cycle, if you want to call it that.  If we’re going to take a good look at everything, we take a good look at everything and make sure that we don’t run into a situation like this in the future.
We can’t just look at one component of it. We need to have a complete picture. So I’m just wondering if the minister would commit to that.
Yes, we will review that because we certainly don’t want to see this happen again in the future, especially when we have a dire shortage of housing in the North.  We certainly don’t want to see this happen again.
Also, Mr. Scott indicated earlier that the marshaller did not have access to another space that they were going to use.
I understand as a result of that a lot of materials were stored outside in the environment and there was a lot of rain and stuff like that.
So I’m just wondering if they know of, or when will they know if there are any materials that have been damaged as a result of that.
As I mentioned earlier, we are still receiving reports in from the communities on overshoot and damage reporting. We are uncovering a number of damages in the materials that were delivered to the communities not necessarily as a result of materials being left out in the rain or exposed to weather but as a result of improper packaging, banding, strapping and that sort of thing.
Odd little items, too, like a whole box of framing nails that apparently had been broken open and then reshuffled into a box of Skippy peanut butter we have delivered to one of the communities.
So we are still looking for the peanut butter but we got the nails.
Sounds like a sticky situation.
The other thing that Mr. Scott mentioned earlier, Mr. Chairman, is when they looked at the containers where they had discussions with the carrier.
He indicated that they were convinced of that, that that was a good idea and that they switched to that.  I know that this whole concept of marshalling and receiving, and all of that is something that’s new to the corporation.
I don’t know how many companies out there that do that kind of work but there are companies out there that are good at it and have done it for quite some time.
I’m just wondering, in your view or in your review, would look at or consider sitting down with the companies and looking at getting some possible ideas and other ways to try and improve and make the whole process better?
I’m just wondering if that’s something that they would consider.
Yes, we will certainly look into this. As I stated earlier, we certainly don’t want to repeat this with housing projects.
We still have to build houses and figure how we can bring them up in a more cost saving way. We will keep monitoring this.
What Mr. Tootoo suggested is a very good idea and will be very helpful in how we can try and make improvements so that we will not repeat what happened this past summer.
My next question, I know and I asked when we had Community and Government Services in here, as we all know, it seems to be a growing pattern within the government where all of the capital projects that are being tendered are coming in anywhere from 20 to 50 percent higher than what has actually been budgeted for.
I’m just wondering if the minister or his officials could give an indication, is that the same as what we’re looking at with housing, or are they coming in on budget?
As the units that we wanted to build in communities for four years are still being worked on, we will work very hard in order to continue on with the construction of units in Nunavut.
We wanted to build houses for Nunavut and if we saved some money there, we would certainly want to use that money to build more houses.
Chairman: We don’t have a quorum (interpretation) I apologize. (interpretation ends) Shall we take a 10-minute break?
>>Committee recessed at 16:31 and resumed at 16:48
I would like to thank Mr. Tootoo for asking questions. Your time has expired. Mr. Peterson. (interpretation) I’m sorry.
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk: Thank you. I think you need Tylenol or…
(interpretation) We didn’t quite answer the questions that were raised by Hunter Tootoo.
The funding that we requested is enough. We have more than enough for the housing units we’re trying to build for now. To clarify further, we haven’t used up the monies that we have allotted for the 725 new units to be built.
I would like to welcome the minister and his officials to the Committee of the Whole today.
I wanted to follow-up on the questions on the Housing Trust from the Kitikmeot perspective. I haven’t heard of too many problems in our region but I thought it would be appropriate if I did ask you a few questions.
Can you give me an update on the status of the delivery of the materials in our Kitikmeot communities?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): The materials being sent to the communities are on their way to the Kitikmeot.
I spoke to this person and the barge just arrived.
They are unable to bring in the material to the community. The barges were a little bit late coming to the community of Cambridge Bay in the Kitikmeot area but they are getting closer to the community now.
I thank the minister for that answer. Yes, the barge into Cambridge Bay was unreasonably late this year for some reason.
I can’t recall it ever coming into Cambridge Bay in October, particularly late October.  Pursuant to your commitments or statements to my colleagues on the review and inventory of materials in each of the communities, will you also be conducting an inventory of the materials that arrive in our Kitikmeot communities to ensure that when the construction is undertaken, there will be no delays with missing materials?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): Thank you. Our staff in the Kitikmeot region were informed by our office to monitor the materials that will be used to build housing units in the communities.
Our next barge isn’t until August, September, and possibly October of next year, if there are any missing materials, how would you anticipate bringing them into the communities so that the contractors can proceed without delay?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If you’re missing some materials, we will have to work with the suppliers that are shipping the materials to the communities.
We will have to monitor them very carefully to ensure that the materials are going to the appropriate communities.
I haven’t heard of any real concerns in the Kitikmeot but I have heard of, obviously, all of the problems in this part of Nunavut.
It’s always good to anticipate, as we know housing is a critical issue in all of our communities as well, any unforeseen or unreasonable delays could have a negative impact on our communities.
In your opening comments, Mr. Minister, you mentioned receiving $4,290,000 from the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation. From previous capital estimates, we’ve talked about the sunsetting of that program.
Do you have an updated report on when that CMHC funding will sunset?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It may be done in the year 2037.
You mentioned in your report as well that you’re working towards obtaining further federal contributions for the Ten-Year Inuit Housing Action Plan.  Could you elaborate a little bit about what lobbying you’re doing and what presentations you’re making in Ottawa to convince them that we need more housing up here?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): Thank you. We met with Monte Solberg, the minister from the federal government, about two weeks ago concerning the housing situation and the materials that were going to be shipped to Nunavut.
I thank the minister for that information. Could you elaborate on what was discussed; what arguments or case you put forward for more housing in Nunavut?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): Thank you. Once we met with the minister in the federal government, we discussed the Ten-Year Inuit Housing Action Plan.
Before the Throne Speech at Parliament Hill, we met with him a little over three weeks ago as to what actions we are going to take concerning housing but he was reluctant about indicating what they’re planning to do. We discussed how much more housing we wanted to build in Nunavut for the next ten years.
I look forward to the standing committee members getting more information from you as you continue your lobbying in Ottawa with the federal government.
I see in the Kitikmeot region, on page L-9, there’s quite a significant amount of money set aside for M&I retrofit for housing. I’ve been to several houses in my riding over the last year. It’s at the request of my constituents because there’s usually a problem with the house.
Recently, I was in a house where there were indoor fumes from the furnace and I asked my constituent, “Well, how long has this been going on?” and she said, “Over a year.”
I checked with the Health Department and they said that’s a health hazard. And then another constituent had problems with the sewer tank and he had been trying to get it fixed for over a year as well, maybe a couple of years. Again, that was a health hazard.
So I’m just wondering if the minister or his officials could take us through a typical scenario where the Local Housing Organizations are on a preventative maintenance routine where they would go inspect each house on an annual basis - the furnaces, the sewer tanks, or other functional parts of the house - to make sure that it’s up to standard, up to code and that they’re healthy and safe for constituents to live in. How does that work? How do you ensure that that work is being done?
These are identified in the details of the capital plans. We would like to retrofit all of the old houses and the government has stated that we need to fix those houses so that there can be much healthier places to live in.
We are doing some renovations in some communities.
We are seeing how we can properly renovate them so that they can be better to live in.
If Mr. Scott could elaborate a little more on this, he can do so.
Chairman: Thank you, Minister. Mr. Scott, go ahead.
The housing associations are funded to perform various functions, primarily preventative maintenance functions and, to some degree, demand maintenance.
Part of that is doing an annual unit condition rating, which then tells us the conditions of each of the units, or should tell us the condition of each of the units in the communities. It should indicate which ones are the worst ones and which ones should be shown as priority when it comes to developing the M&I program for their community.
The M&I program, we have a three-year M&I plan that is generated by the local housing organizations based upon their priorities, or what they feel are their priorities as far as major work that needs to be done on the units.
They’re prioritized based on health and safety first, and then energy efficiency secondly.
What we are finding though, as a result in the increase in demand maintenance being placed on maintenance staff, that not all of the unit conditioning ratings are getting done every year and not all of the preventative maintenance for four quarters are being generated by the maintenance and management program are being initiated as well.
That is obviously a concern of ours but it’s a result of a bit of the man power issue that is there as well.
Mr. Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the minister for that useful information.
So how do tenants, if they’re in a house, how do they bring their concerns forward?
I get a sense that some of my constituents have brought the issue forward at some level. They’ve persevered and they’ve stayed in the house.
Clearly, the last house I looked at, I personally didn’t think it was safe, and I contacted the health department and I think they concurred with me.
The tenants are threatening to call the health inspector but usually you go to the landlord first and they will rectify it or try to rectify it and send in an assessment.
So if you’re a tenant in one of the social or public housing, how do you bring your concerns forward to ensure that they’re taken care of?
Mr. Scott, go ahead.
The first step that the tenants obviously should take is to contact the local housing office there and put in a work order request.
I’m well aware, as the member is, too, that often these aren’t addressed immediately, especially if they’re not considered to be high priority and sometimes they get put on sort of a waiting list while the housing organization clears up all of the higher priority work orders.
The other option is that they can go directly to their representatives on the board of directors that they’ve elected to talk to the board, or go to one of the monthly or bi-weekly board meetings that are held at the housing organization.
And after that, there are a number of different remedies. They can go to their MLA and talk to them, as you said your constituents have found that to be useful sometimes.
They can also the approach the rental officer if they feel that they’re not being treated fairly by their landlord, which is the housing organization, then they can go to the rental officer for remedies there as well.
Mr. Peterson, can you keep your questions to the capital estimates?
Thank you, Mr. Scott, for that answer.
I would like to think that the MLAs are the last resort.
I don’t think all of them come to me but usually they come to me after they’ve exhausted all their other avenues. I think the LHO usually responds.
I noted in your opening comments, Mr. Minister, you were talking about providing more staff housing, particularly for the new trades school in Rankin Inlet, and the continuing care centres in Igloolik and Gjoa Haven. They are requesting additional funding to construct these staff housing units. It reminded me of my continuing efforts to get staff housing for the health centre in Cambridge Bay for medical professionals.
I’m wondering if you could give me an update on where the Housing Corporation is at in terms of having housing available for the medical professionals in Cambridge Bay.
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, perhaps there were seven or eight units that were geared towards the nursing centre and there are 25 vacant units in Cambridge Bay.
That’s useful information. As well, it appears that housing is not a problem in Cambridge Bay for health professionals, so the problem is elsewhere now. I will follow up appropriately with that information.
I wanted to ask him also, I have quite a few constituents in my riding who are elders and disabled, and they live in public and social housing. Do you make funding available for renovating those houses to ensure that they are suitable for elders and disabled to enter/exit, in terms of the steps, door handles that are easy for people with arthritis to open, caps on sinks and bathtubs that are easy to turn on and off, maybe even bathtubs that are low enough so that they can step into them, and railings to get up off of the toilet.
Do you make money available for renovations to houses for that purpose?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We try to make funding available to our elders and for the people with disabilities. We have a program that provides funding for those.
I’m sure that you’re probably working in cooperation with the Department of Health to identify the home care people to identify who needs their housing upgraded to that status.
Under the homeowner programs for the Kitikmeot, you have $450,000 budgeted. Can you give me a brief overview of how the program is being delivered in the Kitikmeot and how successful it is, say, in my riding of Cambridge Bay?
Hon. Olayuk Akesuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, the first one you just mentioned, we work with the Department of Health and Social Services to determine which elders or people with disabilities require more assistance.
Perhaps Mr. Scott can respond to the latter question.
That’s only because I was quicker flicking through the briefing book than he was.  Under the various programs that the Housing Corporation delivers in the Kitikmeot, for this year, 2007-08, we’ve taken in 138 applications for the various programs and 42 applicants have been approved out of that.
There are also a number of other applications that are still pending final approval for another additional 35 applicants there.
The bulk of those approved applications are under the Home Repair Program, quickly followed by the Emergency Repair Program. So those are the two most popular programs currently delivered in the Kitikmeot region.
Mr. Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the minister and Mr. Scott for those answers.
With respect to those other programs if you’re buying a house, you get $30,000 or $50,000, is there information available on those programs?
Yes, we have that information on hand as to whom and how many have applied for support through the Nunavut Down Payment Assistance Program for material and renovation.
All of that information is clearly written in the document that we have.
Thank you, Mr. Peterson. Your time is up.
I have a follow-up to some of the questions that I made earlier.
I believe the minister is a lot more refreshed now from yesterday and today.
Mr. Chairman, I think the logistical problems are quite clear but I’m not sure, as a member of the committee here, that the problems that face us is really not all of the problems of the logistical contractor.
I believe it has to do with the choice that the... because of the change in how the suppliers have been asked to deliver to the distribution centre, maybe so in Montreal, but mainly in that one location.
So I’m wondering, having said that, why would the minister now not change the tender, or RFP, to reflect the problems that we experienced and make it more efficient?
The reason I’m saying that is you have now directed, I suppose, or advised the suppliers to deliver to the distribution centre in Montreal.
And they really don’t... I’m not sure, are they advised to have a clearly marked product when the trucks are delivering? If they were clearly marked, why would some products going to the Kivalliq region be in Pond Inlet, for instance?
Before I get the minister to answer your questions, I would like to remind the committee members that we are still on page L-6. Grants and Contributions. Headquarters Region.
Go ahead, Minister Akesuk.
We wanted to have the packaging and crating of material to be done properly so that they could be shipped to the appropriate destinations. They were crated and packaged but some of them were delivered to the wrong communities. We already mentioned how we can improve this.
Perhaps Mr. Scott can respond to Mr. Curley’s question.