EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
We would very much like to see those facilities built in the communities, so that the families will stay together, because when one of the parents leave, the household does not function properly even though the individual is disabled they still love them and want to be with them and sometimes the individual gets sent out to the home just to give the rest of the family a rest.
I will be asking questions about that later on Mr. Chairman.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Puqiqnak.
We are under general comments and you have 10 minutes for general comments.
Perhaps if I could ask a question first if I make a mistake please correct me because this is my first time.
It’s in regards to social services and we are talking about Health and Social Services.
We have social workers in the communities and they are there to help us with services but we have had some problems whereby social workers in the communities especially where young people in the communities get together for the first time and they get married and sometimes they have a problem later on with their marriage as very young people.
Whenever they start having problems the social workers are brought in to help them.
When my wife and I first got married, we were not always happy and we did not ask for the social worker to counsel us but we sent somebody or used the people from the church to help us, to help counsel us.
But today what we do is we get social workers involved and we get the police involved and the male spouse is probably taken away from the family because they feel that he is causing problems; the Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit Katimajiit would be very helpful in that situation where they can do some counselling.
Or the social workers could be taught to do better counselling or use other people such as from the church group to help the young married couple to get counselling.
I will be asking questions about that later on Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Nester.
I’m sorry I called you Mr. Kattuk earlier on.
We are really happy because in Rankin Inlet there is a regional facility being built and I’m sure that there have been some questions already.
Perhaps the Department of Health and Social Services has been questioned about the present facility; what is going to be happening with the present facility in Rankin Inlet?
It just seems like there are no plans in place for the health facility in Rankin Inlet although we have been using it as a birthing centre.
At the present time it’s being utilized by the people especially in the Kivalliq region; it’s okay to get a hospital here in Iqaluit but would that facility or that nursing station that is at the present time in Rankin Inlet will it be, will they do some more expansion on that or what is going to be happening to it?
Will they be getting more patients to go there to bear their children because as you know, we have a birthing centre instead of sending them out to Edmonton, Winnipeg or Ottawa and will they be using the present birthing facility in Rankin Inlet?
I think we have to think about what kinds of uses we can provide after the new hospital is built and to train midwives in the Kivalliq Region.
At this time, those are my comments, but I am sure that the Minister has also thought about the usage of the hospital, after the regional hospital is built.
There is no question that a lot more needs to be done in health.
On what my fellow Member from Nanulik mentioned, these are the kinds of issues that must be addressed.
I would also like to tell the Minister, and I say hello to Rosemary who is sitting next to him and is from Rankin Inlet and knows very much about midwifery, I would like the Government to start thinking about how we can improve or prioritize the issue of midwifery.
In Nunavik, they have a birthing center and it is very well coordinated.
We are a little late in reaching the backstage and not all women can go there, but in Nunavik, there is a birthing center, I think it is in Puvunniqtuuq and possibly what the Minister should do is to send some of the staff down to Nunavik so they can look at the birthing center and see how it operates.
I do not have many questions, but I would like to see the issue of midwifery and birthing centers considered.
Chairman (Mr. Puqiqnak) (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Anawak.
We are in the Capital Estimates, but I would like to take my 10 minute opportunity to make some general comments.
Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit is not being used at all today in the health system.
I wanted to make a few comments in regards to how we treated the Inuit.
Let us take people who have had frozen limbs and they have had to take them out, which is wrong.
In the Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit, you did not take them out and I think that there could have been people who could have been taken to court.
That is in regards to people with frost bites and having to be amputated.
We are going to stay in the North and there will be cases of frost bites because of our severe weather conditions.
If it is the frozen limb should be put in ice cold water, even with ice in it because it does not do damage to the skin; if you thaw out the limb in warm or hot water, it will ruin the skin and it can also ruin the arteries because of course it is cooking the skin.
We have to look at these types of issues and Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit is not being used as much as it should be today so that we can treat frost bitten patients properly.
Those of us who have been here know how we should deal with frost bite.
We have survived from the igloo era to now.
I think that if we included or implemented Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit in this department we could probably save a few dollars in your department.
I have been making those comments for the last three years and I think the Minister knows what I am talking about.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Iqaqrialu.
We’ll go onto questions.
I would like the Chair to come back and chair the meeting.
Chairman (Mr. Iqaqrialu) (interpretation): Mr. Puqiqnak.
I will keep my questions brief.
Chairman (interpretation): I would like to make a few comments before we go into questions.
We have to note that 10-5, we’re on page 10-5 on the capital estimates; the floor is now open to more questions.
If there are no general comments, Mr. Puqiqnak.
You are the Chairperson if I go out of line please tell me, but my question is in regards to the traditional healers.
One of the Members had stated, in regards to the traditional healers and the way that the Inuit are treated as patients, well my question is how are we going to incorporate Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit into the Department of Health and Social Services?
Chairman (interpretation): We are in the 2004-2005 capital estimates, please keep that in mind but I will have the Minister respond if he should want to.
Mr. Chairman but I guess to keep it brief because we are on capital and not dealing with the O and M issues.
I’m very proud to say, as the Members know here the first Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit coordinator the government hired for any department was in Health and Social Services and I directly appointed Mr. Andrew Tagak over 2 and ½ years ago now.
Andrew has since that time coordinated within the Department of Health and Social Services with all the employees as well as headquarters and regional level a review of programs and services delivered.
In the last couple of months you know he’s been Inuktitut Tukisinaktuk visiting communities on IQ, having phone in shows and meeting people about how more traditional practices, where possible, could be implemented and integrated within the department.
We’re doing up a report on IQ involvement in health right now and we’re hoping to have that report in several weeks.
One of the things we are looking at is the incorporation of Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit.
The Member from Coral mentioned some issues around the traditional counseling and so on and I agree with those comments.
The question around having the foam on the person’s mouth and I have heard that several times and I remember hearing it from the Minister Thompson when we’re in Yellowknife about an episode in Coral when someone died because of the foam.
These are types of things we want to integrate and we are doing it, for example with our midwifery program in Rankin, which we are trying to expand.
We’ve done quite of bit already with implementing IQ but a long ways to go.
We would hope that when we have more Inuit nurses graduating from nursing program that we will be implementing more of these traditional practices where possible and available.
We are in the capital estimates.
We have an opportunity every day to pose questions.
If you would like to ask those questions we have question periods during the session.
So I would suggest to the Members to stick to the capital estimates.
We now open the floor for the questions.
I am just concerned in regards to what is not here.
When will we see monies for the Lena Pedersen Boarding Home?
Because I am concerned about that and my Kitikmeot colleagues are aware we have voiced this for long time.
When we see this capital planning, next year or next five years?
And when will we see the results about the capital planning that we’re concern about?
Mr. Chairman: Thank you Mr. Havioyak.
Hon. Ed Picco: Mr. Chairman, the Member is correct I did.
I have been to Lena Pedersen’s Boarding Home several times and indeed before with some of the Members.
There are some concerns with inadequacies and everything in the home.
The Member is very strong voice and the Member of Taloyoak, Mr. Puqiqnak and as well as Donald and Ovide expressed those concerns.
The reason there is no money in the capital plan for the Kitikmeot boarding home in Yellowknife because that’s sponsored through NIHB Non-Insured Health Benefits.
It flows through the government of Nunavut and we won’t have in the capital plans.
For example, the new boarding home we built in Ottawa was not in capital plans and the new boarding home in Winnipeg was not in capital plans so that’s the reason for that and it is not over sight as such.
It’s just that we don’t have the money allocated through the capital budget planning process because it is outside of that.
Mr. Havioyak (interpretation): I thought that was an oversight and I thought it was put on the back burner.
That’s why I raised the question.
Thanks for your comments, and I will continue to raise my concern on this.
I have noticed in the capital estimates in Kitikmeot medical boarding home, that it should be situated in Cambridge Bay.
I was commenting earlier because these boarding homes don’t have leisure or recreational rooms.
When the patients stay long at the boarding home and they start getting home sick, you know when you have a leisure room aside from the TV room, where you have sewing, crafts, leisure, or recreational rooms, have you looked into that?
Are you aware of what my concern is in regards to medical boarding home in Cambridge Bay with regards to leisure rooms?
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you very much, Mr. Havioyak.
Mr. Chairman, the Member makes a good point.
If you look at the boarding home that we have just completed, the model that we would like to have is the model that we see in Winnipeg where there are opportunities for playrooms, accommodations, common rooms, I do not know if any of the other Members have had a chance to be there.
It is a beautiful facility in Winnipeg.
We have also done the same thing in the Ottawa facility.
We have also done the same thing in the Edmonton facility.
Specifically for the Kitikmeot, in Cambridge Bay we have a half a million dollars in the Capital Budget to revamp and renovate the student hostel in Cambridge Bay.
That will include two common rooms, as well as rooms for TV, and so on, so that there will be opportunities for play stations for children, keeping patients separated, and so on.
That is the plan that we have in place.
We believe that it will be suitable and we will be able to facilitate that.
So that is the direction that we are moving in.
I would like to ask the Minister, although it does not show up in his Opening Statements regarding the closure of the Wellness Centre due to the building not being up to code, what is the status of that?
Mr. Chairman that building that is not up to code is under Public Works and Services.
It is one of their projects.
I met with the Member, and I want to thank the Members for again raising the issue on the facility.
It is my understanding that Public Works and Services has budgeted extra monies, new monies to actually renovate a facility in Arctic Bay to facilitate the replacement of the Health and Social Services workers there and some of the other staff.
However, they believe that that will suffice for now.
I do not think that there is a plan to build a new building in the community.
I know that the Member has talked about the opportunity with a local company to move forward.
That is something that I would endorse.
However, that is the discussion that needs to be ongoing with the review by Public Works.
Maybe I will switch it to English because my question had nothing to do with Arctic Bay.
Thank you for the information anyways.
My question was that the treatment centre in Iqaluit, which was closed due to the building not being a very good building.
The treatment centre treated a lot of people the Baffin or from elsewhere.
Maybe, the Minister can say what is going with on with this building because a treatment centre is needed, alcohol or a healing centre needed here in Iqaluit.
Maybe he could update us on that?
Minister Picco
I apologize to the Member.
I had Arctic Bay and the Public Works building on my mine.
The building that the Member is talking about, I believe she is talking about the Mamisarniq Wellness Centre that used to be the old, the one down behind Mr. Twerdin’s house.
That old centre, Mr. Chairman, the building that the Member is talking about was a leased building to the Government of Nunavut, before that, it to the Baffin Regional Health and Social Services.
It’s an old building, and new roof was put on it, and one of the employees in the building complained about mold.
Mr. Chairman, the Workers Compensation Board under the auspices of the Minister of Workers' Compensation Board Mr. Ng, these people went in there and they thought it was an unsafe work place.
Mr. Chairman, we were leasing the building; we didn’t feel we were in a position to go in and renovate and spend money on someone else’s building, that’s the building we were leasing, up to the owner of the building to get that building up to shape and so on.
So Workers' Compensation Board closed the building because it was an unsafe work place and we relocated our employees to other locations in town.
At the present time we are renovating the Sylvia Grinnell building; there’s renovations going on there and we will be co-locating our service there.
At the same time we’re are in cooperation and working with Tukisinarvik group again to providing some services there and we hope to be able to maybe expand that operation.
So I hope that answers some of your questions on some of the building?
I'm glad that the departments going ahead to make sure that you go ahead with the treatment centre.
Maybe it’s a minor capital, did it show up here and is it in the documents before us?
Mr. Chairman, the Member is correct; it is under minor capital; it wasn’t in the capital estimates budget.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you Minister Picco, I have no one on my list for questions.
If there are no further questions, we will go to page 10-5.
Directorate, Health and Social Services, Branch Summary for Directorate. Total Capital Expenditures, $28 million, 635 thousand.
There is a footnote for 10-6 and 10-7 and 10-8 for the directorate, are there any questions on those pages?
We are on 10-5, but there are 3 pages, on 10-6, 10-7, and 10-8.
The Government, not only the department of health has a whole number of vehicles that are top of the line model and on page one of the pages, there is $300 thousand for the purchase of vehicles.
If we look at Baffin Region for example and Kivalliq and Kitikmeot, there’s $100 thousand each for each region, for the purchase of vehicles.
What is the government doing when they are purchasing vehicles? Do they have criteria because they seem to purchase top of the line most expensive vehicles?
And we all know that while they are working, it’s not only work time that they are used, they also use it after hours and they have a lot of miss use of these vehicles can the minister tell us, how many vehicles will be purchased for $300 thousand.
Couple of good points and the member is correct, government wise, the Premier has acknowledged that there has been a concern raised with the employees using vehicles, not just in the larger communities; it’s also in the smaller communities.
Through the good offices of Public Works as well as the individuals office we have been looking at the Vehicle Policy. My understanding is that that vehicles are only required for the people who are on 24-hour call seven days a week.
In this case when you look at the budgets presented and I will just look at, let us say 10-6, it says that Baffin Regional Hospital equipment and vehicles, $100 thousand, for example, a vehicle that, would be only one vehicle and the rest could be an incubator, it can be a stretcher, it can be other medical equipment, too.
So, it is equipment, minor equipment and vehicles and that is the category, although it is not necessarily $100 thousand dollars for all vehicles.
In most cases, it is other medial equipment that is included in that program.
I don't have a breakdown of how many vehicles that we are buying in total this year, but I can get that for the Committee and I can say, Mr. Chairman, that the specifications for the vehicles are dictated by the Public Works, again, on what vehicles are available as requested by the Member or by the Department.
In this case, let us say it was a social worker who was on call 24-hours a day, and then you would probably need a 4-wheel drive vehicle in case there was a storm.
If it is a vehicle, a van that a health center needed, it should probably be all-wheel drive or 4-wheel drive if they are carrying patients in.
Those are the types of things that are decided on.
It does not come down to the luxury side of it, should it have a CD player or whatever, and it is based on the requirements of the data.
That is my understanding of how the purchases are done and if you look at again on the budget allocation amounts, the majority of that is also included in the actual equipment, for the health center and/or for the hospital.
For the Qikiqtaaluk Region listed here for equipment and vehicles is $120 thousand for just the Baffin Region and just under that, for the Baffin Region new hospital $100 thousand.
So, there is $220 thousand there already that while you are trying to get that information as to how vehicle usage can be looked at because we often see vehicles, just one minivan going home to lunch with just one passenger and just recently, I went to Mary Brown’s, they were quite big vans parked outside with just the one driver gone for lunch.
And seeing this around town, you think, well, Government is paying for the gas and this great big vehicle is just being used.
We are always saying we have no funds for everything and so because of all those, I think there needs to be a closer look on getting a vehicle usage policy.
So, I will not be agreeing to that section.
Chairman (interpretation): I do not hear a question in there.
Perhaps if Mr. Minister, if you would like to respond and always press the red button, there is a cough button there if you like want to converse between each other before you go on, okay?
Mr. Chairman, the Member makes a good point there.
Some of the concerns that the Member has raised are the concerns that we have heard.
I mean, we as Members, everyone in this room have heard the same concerns, whether it be in our home community, whether you are in the capital there in the larger regional centers.
That is the reason why, Mr. Chairman, that the Premier had asked almost two years ago, probably longer, for each Government vehicle to have on it, for example, D-4, D-5, a large letter and a number and if you or me or if the public at large see a vehicle stopped at the Legion during dinnertime, at Northern Stores, you know, at the local Co-Op, whatever the thing is or the issue is, not being used for Government business, then they can contact the Government and say, I saw a vehicle D-4 and what was going on.
That is one of the Policies that have been put in place by the number.
There has been some concerns raised and that is one of the proactive stances that the Government has put in place to deal with that.
On the equipment amounts, again, Mr. Chairman, I will find out, out of the total, by the vehicles.
One vehicle costs $30 thousand dollars plus freight.
So, it does not take very much money to get up to $150 thousand that could be three-four vehicles.
But my understanding is, again, that it includes equipment and vehicles, it could be stretchers, it can be new chairs, it could be furniture for health centers and the reason why it is broken out like this is that we are trying to show what the hospital is purchasing and what the region is purchasing.
The region is every community outside of the hospital and the hospital, of course, is the hospital itself.
So, I hope that helps answer some of those questions.
Mr. Chairman, in the Capital Estimates on page 10-8, there is an ongoing question regarding what we call safe houses; I don’t know exactly what you call them.
But I think you are well aware of what I’m talking about.
There are women’s shelters when couples have disagreements or problems or spousal abuse happening so they do provide for women’s shelters.
In Taloyoak there is a women’s shelter and at the time with the Nunatsiaq government there was funding for operations and maintenance for that facility and the annual contribution for that facility has never been upped and Taloyoak women’s shelter operations and maintenance, even with the cost of living have been risen their budget allocation has never been increased.
Are there any plans in the future to increase that budget item for capital?
Mr. Chairman the budget for the Taloyoak facility as well as for women’s facilities are not included here in the capital; they are in O and M budget.
The women’s facilities have not had any increase form 1992 to the year 2000.
With the support of the members of the health facility, I increased the budget for women’s shelters across Nunavut by 20 %, there’s another increase in the budget this year 10% and 10% last year for increase to 20%.
However, in a smaller community like Taloyoak, the budget is only 50 thousand dollars; the budget would only amount to 4 or 5 thousand dollars.
But we have increased for the first time in the last 2 years and the reason why we don’t see it here is that it’s not a capital project it would be in the O and M. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Puqiqnak (interpretation): Yes I understand.
The Minister has stated there has not been an increase since 1992 and I understand that you have increased the budget for safe shelters 20% and then 10%.
There have been people working at the Taloyoak safe shelter.
Do they increase the O and M at times too for those facilities?
Hon. Ed Picco: I don’t have my O and M sheets with me.
I could tell you categorically that I know because we had that review last year and my wife used to work at the women’s shelter here I know that they had no increase from 1992 right until we increased it when this government put money into those budgets.
We put 10 % in and I increased them by 10% this year.
So I know that in the last couple of years there was a 20 % increase because we did it, this government did that and that was the only increase those shelters had since 1992 and some of the Members have talked about where it’s very difficult to recruit and retain staff at the women’s shelters because the wages and incentives are low and can’t compete with the government.
So that’s something that we’ve done.
But the Member is correct it’s 20 %, 10 and 10 and not 10 and 20, it’s 20 %.