EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Yes, as the Nunavut Government we cannot work on this alone.
We need the co-operation of other organizations, because it is very expensive to build facilities.
Perhaps NTI and Nunavut Wildlife Management Board by working with them we can, we already have a working relationship with these two entities, so we can look for ways with them to resolve this.
Especially in the communities who are lacking facilities, I would like to know which communities have very old and badly deteriorated facilities.
As the Nunavut Government we cannot deal with this alone, we would require assistance from NTI and Nunavut Wildlife Management Board and we will have to work together to improve this and find out what the status of the community offices are.
I am very pleased to hear this response that he is willing to look into this in the future.
But when they say how expensive it is, as I said before, the government officials that come into our communities, their facilities and offices already exist and they are very nicely built.
One individual or one staff member from the headquarters comes into the community and they have very nice offices, so therefore I was just wondering if the HTOs could be treated the same.
I am sure it is possible because we require adequate facilities.
I just wanted to have a concrete plan for the future and I am willing to assist the Department of Sustainable Development on that.
Speaker: Before the minister responds, I would just like to remind the members to keep your preambles short and your answers to the point.
As the Nunavut Government, we give funding through our department.
The HTOs in the communities are funded by the Nunavut Wildlife Management Board, and NTI.
As the government, we contribute to NTI and Nunavut Wildlife Management Board and that is their responsibility.
Perhaps one could write a letter to these two entities.
Bill 6 - Nunavut Power Corporation Utility Assets Transfer Confirmation Act - Notice
Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Tuesday March 26, 2001, I shall move that Bill 6, the Nunavut Power Corporation Utility Assets Transfer Confirmation Act be read for the first time.
Bill 1, with Mr. Iqaqrialu in the Chair.
During the Committee of the Whole, we will be dealing with the Department of Justice.
Ms. Williams: Thank you, Mr. Chairman., we would like to deal with Bill 1, 2001-2002 Main Estimates and the Department of Justice.
We would also like to commence the review of the 2001-2002 Capital Estimates for the Department of Culture, Language, Elders & Youth today.
Do we agree to deal with Bill 1, 2001-2002 for the Department of Justice.
We will start with page 5-6.
Minister Okalik you may go down to the witness table.
Do the members agree that his witnesses can come into the Chamber.
Before the witnesses come to the Chamber.
If we could take a short break.
Perhaps 5-10 minutes.
Before your officials come in we will take a short 10-minute break.
Do all the members agree.
>>Committee recessed at 11.05 a.m. and resumed at 11.20 a.m.
Mr. Okalik take your seat at the witness table.
They are the same two as yesterday.
Nora Sanders is at my right, Deputy Minister and on my left is Simon Awa, Director of Policy and Planning.
Before we start with questions, I will give members 10 minutes to make general comments.
Are there any general comments to the Department of Justice.
I'll be talking about Inuit culture.
Justice is a very important part of our lives.
I know when an individual is incarcerated a lot of the inmates are in for a very long time, it is very hard on the family.
They spend time in jail for such a long time and they don't see their families. The children that are left behind tend to go through hardships and I think there should be assistance or some kind of help for children.
When a person is sent to jail I think we should look for ways for sending them for a short time.
I know it is very hard as a person and sometimes, if it is an indictable offence an individual might stay for a very long time.
They have to spend time in jail.
I know Inuit used to talk to their people advising individuals and disciplining people that offended or broke the law.
I think we should look for ways of using traditional knowledge to advise inmates of how they could better their lives.
I know our cultures are different.
Inuit culture and Qallunaat culture are different but the pain is the same and we all have the same feelings, they can be hurt the same way.
We have to look for ways to better our lives and the lives of the people in our communities.
Chairperson (interpretation): Are there any other general comments.
Mr. Irqittuq, I would like to ask you to take the chair, for a bit.
Chairperson (Mr. Irqittuq) (interpretation): Thank you.
I am going to be talking about what I understand and what I think about the justice system and our culture.
I have been involved in the justice committee in our community.
I have also dealt with offenders and I myself have misbehaved in the past as well.
I think we all at one time or another in our lives break a rule and we often learn from those mistakes.
I know everybody has lived through embarrassment, and there are things in the past that we don’t want to reveal and everyone has gone through something like that at one time or another.
The justice system has been around for many years and I really appreciate the work the department does.
They work hard towards making sure that people follow the law.
I know in the past before the justice system came to the north, we used to go through really hard times.
I also know some individuals that have been charged with a crime have to wait for many months for their case to be dealt with by the courts.
When an individual is waiting to be taken to court, many tend to think about suicide.
When they attend court they tend to reveal a lot of shameful incidents or things that have happened.
The justice system, the federal government has asked the government to review the justice department and I think that was a very good suggestion.
When you live in a smaller community, I know that when a crime has been committed in the bigger communities we often feel for the victims and also the offender.
When we live in a small community, the community is very good at working together, but we also see people disagree with each other and it makes it very hard for the community.
When you are involved with the justice committee you tend to work with the community and I have served as a justice of the peace and dealt with a lot of members of our community. We have gone through hardship in our community under the justice system. I know that this affects people in the community and the Justice Department has dealt with a lot of people and it is really hard on the families when an individual has committed a crime and that individual has to realize what he or she has done and correct those mistakes.
I really appreciate the work that the department does because they try to make life better in the community.
Since the 1960’s, that was the turning point in our lives and there are some of us who are in between.
During that turning point, we started losing our identity which created more social problems.
We started taking on an identity that was totally alien to us and we started taking on a different lifestyle.
Because of the change over the years, looking back, I think we are going to be taking back our identity and looking at what kinds of tasks lie ahead of us.
I think that we will start realizing that once we start getting our identity back and that will influence the Department of Justice.
I will be very appreciative if the Department of Justice looks at the traditional and the contemporary lifestyles and I will be a full supporter of this department when we start doing that.
The Justice Department has an effect on all of us and I think we should all work together.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for giving me this opportunity.
Did you want to take the chair again.
Please return then.
Chairperson (Mr. Iqaqrialu) (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Irqittuq.
Any general comments, if there are no further general comments, we will go to the estimates.
Page 5-6, Department of Justice, branch summary.
Page 5-6.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): Before we go to the main estimates, I would like to ask some general questions if it is okay with you, Mr. Chairman.
You can go ahead with your questions.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): In the opening remarks yesterday and today the members said that they will be training Inuit to become lawyers.
My question is in regards to the training that will be held.
Is that just for Inuit or is that for all Nunavummiut.
Yes, it will be Inuit only.
Because of course we all know that there are no Inuit lawyers and we would like to see Inuit take on this profession.
In our department we find that we have to increase the Inuit numbers and we have to train Inuit to take on these professions.
That is where we would like to see some training for our department, so we can take on more Inuit who will give assistance to the people out there.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): I am very happy that you would like to do some training for Inuit only as the trainees will be using Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit in part of their training.
Once we get these Inuit trained, will they be able to work nationally and will Inuktitut be recognized nationally.
Chairperson (interpretation): Minister Okalik.
We can’t change the national Acts or the standards, but we can deal with our own up here.
In our department we use Inuktitut, we draft bills and legislation that will be used for the people of Nunavut.
We are going to be training Inuit on those.
We will also integrate the Inuit culture because it will be applicable in the future.
We will also look at possibly integrating Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit into this training component so it can be applied in the future.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): Going to another issue.
Regarding the juries that are selected during court proceedings.
What are we going to be doing about the rates that are paid to the jurors and who deals with that.
The federal government sets this but we administer pay for the jurors.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): I have received a letter about the rates that are paid to the jurors that are selected.
For example if I have to take time off work, if I work for the Hamlet Council and I have to take time off to attend court as a jury member.
I would to take time off without pay.
If I were making 75 dollars or 90 dollars per day, I would be losing that if I was selected to sit on the jury.
I would be sitting as a juror for two or three days and I would be paid for example, 45 dollars per day.
If I didn’t show up the judge could summon me.
If I didn’t show up I could be arrested.
I think that we should do something about it, and reconsider the rates that are paid by your department.
We have made some adjustments to that but it is mostly for our employees, where we can cover lost wages.
But for the people that don’t work for the Nunavut Government we may have to reconsider it.
How long would the review take or would you have to introduce a bill for the rates that are paid for jury members.
The rates are set by our regulations and we would have to review the whole policy carefully.
I can’t tell you exactly when that would take place.
I would like to ask another question that is totally different from that one.
During some proceedings elders have to be included.
I don’t know whether that applies to all the Nunavut communities.
But the elders attend during the court proceedings and the court can either accept the advice of the elders and apply it or not use it at all.
That’s what we do in my community of Pond Inlet, and I assume that’s what it is like in all the Nunavut communities.
The elders’ circle has to be involved during the court proceedings and the elders give advice to the person, or the person is asked to go in front of the elders in the justice circle.
Are you looking into ways of paying for elders in the courts.
Or are you doing anything about alternative justice systems, or community justice.
This is the first time that I have heard about the alternative justice system separate from the community justice committee using the elders.
I know that the elders are included in the justice committees and they are involved during the court proceedings.
We have set aside some money so that the elders can be paid more in the community justice committees.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): Thank you very much for your response.
Maybe you would know a lot more as you have become the Minister of Justice.
It is something that I just wanted to bring up but it is a comment more than anything else.
I am very glad that you are going to be reviewing the rates that are paid to the elders but I think that they need more support.
Because using Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit they are involved during the court proceedings and I think they should be adequately compensated.
I think they should also have a clerk or reporter so that we can start integrating Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit at the community level.
That is more of a comment.
I didn’t hear a question but it is something to be considered.
This is the first time that I have heard about the elders’ situation that you mentioned.
I thought they were already in the committees but we are going to be giving them more responsibility so I will have this checked into.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Okalik, for your response.
This is a similar line of questioning as Mr. Nutarak regarding jury duty.
The government has legislated a minimum wage for all the employees in Nunavut, or have grandfathered minimum wage legislation.
The hours of work before overtime is paid is also legislated.
My question is can there be legislation for jury duty, not just for the government employees, but for all the employees of Nunavut, private sector or otherwise, to be on jury duty not to lose their pay.
Can this be legislated as part of the Nunavut made legislation.
To make a brief comment, we will be breaking at 12 o’clock for lunch and we will probably be taking a half hour or 45 minute break, before I forget.
We can look at it further.
Right now we currently pay our employees for jury duty, but it would involve talking with the businesses whether they could afford to pay for their employees that have jury duty.
To date it has been more of a civic duty to be chosen as a jury member, so that is why it has been left as it is, but we can look at it further.
This civic duty is very much taken with pride by all citizens of Canada including Nunavut.
Does this policy by the government to pay their employees when they are on jury duty, include government sponsored or government funded organizations like the hamlets or agencies and boards and commissions.
Does that include the local government and other government funded programs.
I have no more names at this time.
We will then move on to the Department of Justice, main estimates, branch summary.
We are on page 5-6.
Total operations and maintenance, 1 million 882 thousand.
Mr. Arvaluk: Why is there a requirement for contract services in the directorate.
I will ask my Deputy to respond to that question.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Premier Okalik.
Ms. Sanders.
Ms. Sanders: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Directorate includes our policy and planning division and also our corporate services.
From time to time, there would be things like the contract for our photocopier I think is included in that and it could also include a minor contract for a research charge and that kind of thing that would be done through our policy and planning division.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Ms. Sanders.
We were at 1 million 820 thousand.
To the next page.
We will be moving to page 5-8 because those are information items.
Mr. Arvaluk: On 5-8 is this contract services for the RCMP part of the expenditure of 13 million 891 dollars.
Is that still at the 30% on what the Federal government pays.
Yes, we pay 70% and the federal government pays 30% of the contract services.
Is that consistent with other jurisdictions that use RCMP for their policing services.
When we were looking at the capital I didn't see anything about new aluminium boats and outboard motors in the communities.
But in my communities the aluminium boat that belongs to the RCMP is never used, only on the weekend that is used for pleasure purposes, because we have a very good wildlife office programs that attend to on the land enforcement.
Is this still continuing, purchasing of capital items such as boats and things like that for the RCMP in the communities.
The federal government does all capital purchases.
We are now in Justice Branch summary.
Law enforcement, total expenditures 13 million 964 thousand.
Total expenditures 13 million 164 thousand.
Turn to 5-9.
Justice branch summary, Legal Services Board.
Total operations and maintenance, 3 million 126 thousand dollars.
Total expenditures, 3 million 126 thousand.
Just information item on 5-10.
Justice Branch summary, lawyer support services.
Total operations and maintenance, 1 million 802 thousand.
Total expenditures, 1 million 802 thousand.
Justice, branch summary.
Registries and court services.
Total operations and maintenance, 4 million 456 thousand.
Before you read out the numbers I have a question regarding registries and court services.
Chairperson (interpretation): Which page are you on Ms. Williams. Page 5-12.
Go ahead Ms. Williams.
I want to ask about the Justices of the Peace in the communities.
I know that these have been worked on for the last two years.
Now in all the communities is there more than one JP now in every community.
I cannot give you the exact numbers of JPs right now but there have been more Justices of the Peace appointed to this date.
I also wanted to ask if there are more JPs now and there are workshops held for these JPs as they have different protocols.
Are they level 2 or 3 now for training.
Are there any JPs that can take on cases that are more serious and are there more law clerks employed.
I also want to hear how many lawyers have been hired to deal with cases.
Chairperson (interpretation):Thank you, Ms. Williams.
Yes, we still have ongoing workshops so that the Justices of the Peace can take on more responsibilities.
So we have been delivering workshops so that they can carry out their role.
I can’t respond to you about how many JPs we have but I will be able to get back to all the members, especially about what the member is asking.
Ms. Williams, you will be the last person before we break for lunch.
Yes, we are breaking for meals all the time. (interpretation ends) My question was that there has been some training for JPs in the communities by a person that is well trained in the law.
Is this person teaching level 2 and 3 JPs in the communities.
If so can they now do more trials in the communities and does this department expect to increase their operating budget for legal and other staff for the JPs to deal with more cases in the communities, which has been a plan of this government.
In the past the JPs didn’t have employees, so we don’t foresee that.
But they do get assistance from our court services, whether it be registering sentences, or assisting with other administrative duties.
So currently before you there are additional staff that we are requesting for court services.
I would imagine that they will take on additional duties as more JPs go on line and deal with more matters at the local level.
At this time, total operations and maintenance, 4 million 456 thousand.
Chairperson (interpretation): Carried. Total expenditures, 4 million 556 thousand.
Chairperson (interpretation): Going on to the next page. At this time, we will take a short lunch break. We will return in 45 minutes.
>>Committee recessed at 12.00 and resumed at 12.49 p.m.
Chairperson (interpretation): We should start as we need to complete some items.
We will go on back to page 5-13.
Justice branch summary.
Community justice and corrections.
Total operations and maintenance, 12 million 206 thousand.
I am not sure how I am going to ask this question.
This page talks about community justice and correction.
I'd like to get some clarification or an update on how this is going.
In Igloolik and Hall Beach, the community has made recommendations on how to deal with community justice.
Could I get a response Mr. Minister.
We continued to give them responsibilities and more training.
If I was approached by a community member with a concern about whether their program is continuing or not, I could check into it.
The money was allocated for inmates in Yellowknife.
We'd like to bring back the inmates closer to Nunavut.
We'd like to see more inmates serving their time at outpost camps or camps close to communities in the future.
The inmates that serve their time at correctional camps, are there rules that are set up.
I know that a couple of communities were asking to set up camps outside of their community for a while now.
What are the barriers that they kept coming across to have camp corrections.
There's training available and our staff is available for training.
We look to see if the camps are safe and we will continue to review the incidents that happened just recently this year and we will continue to make corrections when we do so.
The correctional camps that are set up, could there be assistance available for transportation in those camps.
I understand he said yes.
The communities that I represent have come across areas where their application for transportation wasn't approved and if a community requested transportation, a community was requesting a snowmobile, would they be able to receive that.
Sometimes we have assisted communities.
If they don't have a snowmobile for their transportation we have been able to assist communities and we will continue to do this.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Premier Okalik. Mr. Irqittuq.
Mr. Irqittuq (interpretation): Thank you, I appreciate his response and will forward that information to the community.
I am wondering how many inmates a correctional camp would be able to receive per supervisor.
How many supervisors are available at that camp.
They have a limited number of inmates per supervisor.
It is set up so that supervisors can just take care of a certain amount because they are supervising individuals that have committed crimes.
Each camp is different.
It depends on what crimes a person has committed and the limited space in camps.
I don't have the exact numbers.
For instance if I used myself as an example how many inmates would I be supervising, if I was supervisor.
It is hard to respond to that question.
I think we’d have to look at the size.
It would depend on the size of the camp and how many inmates were serving time in that camp.
So it is hard to respond to that question.
Mr. Chairman, when an individual is serving time in a camp is there a limit as to how many supervisors there can be.
For instance, if there were 10 inmates there are no set rules saying how many supervisors would be there.
One supervisor would be able to supervise three inmates and it would also depend on what they are serving time for.
A camp would not have 10 inmates if there were one supervisor.
This is not the way it is set up.
Mr. Irqittuq (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. that is what I am trying to find out.
Mr. Chairman, when a supervisor is working at a correction centre or camp, what is that salary for the supervisor for the day, or week. What is the method of payment for say an inmate in a camp for a day.
Payment is different.
The supervisors are paid about 90 dollars a day for one inmate.
Some of them are a little bit lower and some of them are higher.
We'd have to check them out and we can also review their wages.
So it might be a little bit lower or higher than 90 dollars.
The minister indicated transportation.
Everything would be provided for the person in custody including the meals and room and board and also the guards.
We pay 90 dollars per day for guarding the inmate and also for the operations.
That's included in there.
Mr. Chairman, the guard's salary is also included with the meals right.
Have you considered, for example, 90 dollars is not very much when you're going to be using it to pay for all the expenses, and operations.
Have you considered increasing that per diem.