EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
My last question to this section: how is your department preparing for the upcoming Auditor General’s audit on the correctional system of your department?
Hon. Paul Okalik: From what I understand, we’re doing whatever we can to facilitate the audit. Our duty is to make sure that the audit is as full as it can be, so we’re trying to offer our services. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Next on my list, Mr. Savikataaq.
On page 32 of your business plan, the priorities for 2013-14, the last bullet says, “Continue to increase the recruitment of bilingual RCMP Special Constables…” Are there any special constables currently hired in Nunavut?
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you very much. Mr. Okalik.
Mr. Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I understand there are three so far. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I don’t know if this is the person to ask, but does the minister know what is the difference between a special constable and a regular RCMP member?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) My deputy minister is in charge of that department, so I’ll let her respond to that. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you very much. Ms. Williams.
The difference is that those with more training are referred to as regular members and their training is longer and the special constable training period is shorter.
Are the powers or duties any different between a special constable and a regular member?
The special constable’s level of policing skills might be slightly lower that those officers who have completed their full training that allow them to carry firearms.
The officers who are tasked with transporting prisoners to courts by air probably do not carry firearms and that is why their skill levels are different.
Mr. Savikataaq: Thank you for the clarification and clear response.
In the same line, it says, recruit bilingual special constables. Do the special constables have to be bilingual?
It doesn’t state that specifically, but we do know that there are not that many RCMP personnel that have the ability to speak Inuktitut.
Going on, on page 33 of your business plan on your status at the top there, I’ll read it.
This is about recruitment. “A recruiting unit is fully staffed with an Inuit member tasked with community outreach and recruitment of Inuit.”
Does this recruitment office go to outlying communities?
I have been advised that they visit the communities and they go on recruiting missions looking for younger generation recruits.
I know the information might not be readily available, but how many communities has the recruiting officer gone to in the last 12 months?
We will look for that information and provide it to the member.
I’m looking forward to the information.
Going on, your department’s draft 2014-15 business plan indicates that one of its priorities for the 2014-15 fiscal year is to “Consult with stakeholders on the creation of civil forfeiture legislation.”
The Commissioner’s Opening Address indicates that this legislation would enable the authorities to “seize property and proceeds believed to be a result of unlawful activities.”
Which of the individuals and organizations is your department planning to consult with before this legislation is made?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): We will want to consult with everyone we could consult with. I will be consulting and if any of my colleagues in the legislature has suggestions as to who we should visit, then we will do it.
Are there any plans to do community consultations, not by people travelling there, but using the existing Department of Justice workers who are in the communities?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Yes. We know that a lot of those people already have jobs and work to do and we don’t just want to saddle more work for them to do when they are already working pretty hard.
But I will want to utilize you as representatives of your constituencies and to wait what the best practices we could use to consult on the legislation.
Chairman (interpretation): Following my list of names and using my ability to decide I will allow Mr. Hickes to ask again.
My apologies for having a question that I forgot to mention earlier and I appreciate the opportunity to bring it forward.
Mr. Chairman, back in March in this House I had asked the minister in Oral Question period a question regarding Inuit employment.
At the time he stated that it’s something that is a high priority in our community and when he meets with his staff he always makes sure to get updated.
Mr. Chairman, I’m sure the minister met with his staff in preparation for this committee meeting and was updated.
I wonder if he could pass that update on to the members.
Perhaps if my deputy could provide an answer.
Every working day we are working on this issue including the casual employees who we are always trying to look for beneficiaries in terms of their qualifications naturally.
We know that we need to work with them and using our own people that can understand our languages and we will continue to work in this area.
Thank the witness for that answer. Also on that day the minister responded that the current practice in hiring needs some revisions and that we do need more Inuit working at the Baffin Correctional Centre.
Has his department taken into consideration the need for those revisions and would the minister be able to outline what kind of revisions they anticipate in making?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The staff are working on that issue, especially with the impending opening of the overcrowding facility.
We know that we need more man hours and we will be working towards capacity in this area.
Chairman (interpretation): We are on Justice. (interpretation ends) Branch Summary.
Directorate. Total Operations and Maintenance, to be Voted. $17,094,000. (interpretation) Agreed?
Before we go to page E-5, we will take a 10-minute break.
>>Committee recessed at 15:20 and resumed at 15:35
We are on page E-5. (interpretation ends) Branch Summary.
On page E-5, I have a few questions in regard to that page. They’re very important, so I would like to pose my questions.
Let me first ask a question on the line item for $35,772,000 for operations and maintenance for law enforcement contract services. To me, the funding of $35 million is a huge amount. How do you negotiate the funding for that?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): We don’t have much say because there’s an agreement with the federal government. They give their budget line items to the federal government, so we don’t have much leeway.
I know that this is a huge sum of money, but the federal government has to pay 30 percent for law enforcement according to the agreement, so it helps us a bit.
Perhaps I think what I’m trying to ask is that with that agreement, it’s a large sum of money. Do you actually have a say as to what kind of programs and services that they could provide in Nunavut?
As Nunavut, we say that we are unique. Our culture, lifestyle, and environment are quite unique.
Do you have an actual right to include programs and services in the agreement?
My deputy minister regularly meets with law enforcement and she can elaborate further on that.
We can look at the agreement in two ways.
The one is a 20-year agreement and the other one is set for two years at our department.
We work with senior law enforcement officials and we are able to talk with them and provide recommendations.
The minister and the inspector have an agreement.
We have a 20-year agreement that was signed in 2012, but we don’t make changes to the 20-year agreement and they budget their funding for 142 RCMP officers.
Perhaps I’m not posing my question properly, so it seems like you’re not asking my question.
I’ll just use an example.
For example, since this is using a large sum of funds, since the agreement costs lots of money, in some communities, some officers seem to bully the people of the community.
I’m talking about an actual case or event.
Sometimes they intimidate the people in the community because there are RCMP officers in the smaller communities.
Prior to the department singing the agreement, have you ever made any recommendations before the RCMP officers are sent to Nunavut? Do you provide cross cultural training or orientation? That’s what I am moving towards.
When the new RCMP officers are coming to Nunavut, do you provide orientation programs or do you train them with cross-cultural programs?
Can you make those recommendations in the agreement?
My deputy minister always deals with this issue so I’ll have her respond to your question.
It is a large amount for contract for the law enforcement. We understand that.
The member has stated that RCMP sometimes go to communities and they are big bosses or bullies, if I understood that correctly.
The reply to that would be the complaints process, which is in place so if something like this happens there is a process that people can follow.
When we do the shared directional statement between the minister and the RCMP commanding officer can work on together to make sure that these things don’t happen.
Also RCMP members who are going to the detachments are being oriented before they go into the community about community or cross cultural orientation.
When they go into the community, they are encouraged to meet with hamlets, and the community members who are dealing with community people so that they can be part of the community.
I just want to say again that there is a complaints process in place that people should know. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Perhaps I will try to speak English, too. (interpretation ends) I guess what I’m trying to ask is, I would like to suggest that there is a huge amount of dollars that this government spends on policing, namely with the RCMP.
I thought my simple question was; are there certain provisions in the contract that you demand in the contract such as, for example, any member wanting to serve in Nunavut must have this, this and this because we always state we are a unique society, we are a unique territory and we are a unique culture up here.
I wasn’t talking about any kind of process.
Yes, the deputy minister is right.
Unfortunately, too many times RCMP members come into communities heavy handed. We hear that time and time again.
They run rush-shod at communities.
We hear that time and time again.
That’s why I’m suggesting, are there any of these cross cultural, any of this stuff, put into this huge contract.
After all, it’s a huge amount of our money. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I don’t want a misconception out there. A lot of the force members are very good members and they provide a valuable service to the communities.
A lot of them volunteer their time on the side to make sure that the image of the police is portrayed in a positive way to the community.
I applaud those members that work very hard to maintain the positive image of the police force. I encourage them to continue that good work.
Yes, there have been challenges within the force with some members.
But those members will be dealt with through the complaints process as my deputy has outlined.
We also do our part in making sure that they are made aware of our unique territory.
We have done videos in the past. As my deputy explained, we encourage the new members to meet with the local justice committee people.
We are open to more innovative ways that my colleagues may encourage us to do. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Let me try and speak Inuktitut. Perhaps they didn’t understand me in English.
Mr. Chairman, I don’t want any misconceptions out there.
I didn’t say that all of the RCMP officers are doing wrong or bad.
All I said is there are some.
I am very proud of the RCMP officers that do valuable work and they do provide work beyond their scope of work.
The question I was trying to pose, perhaps they responded to my question. Maybe because I am misunderstanding.
Since this contract is for a large sum of money can Nunavummiut or your department ask or request or demand to put into the agreement?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Yes, we have that opportunity, but we cannot control their day-to-day operations.
We can make an agreement with them on the shared direction. Their two-year agreement is now lapsing, so therefore we are now planning on a new two-year agreement on how the RCMP will on the shared direction.
Myself and the commanding officers will sign the agreement.
After the agreement has been signed then it’s distributed to all of the RCMP detachments, the copy of the shared direction is given to them.
According to the names on my list, Mr. Hickes.
I’ve just got a couple questions in this section. The minister pointed out that 30 percent of this contract is paid by the federal government. Is that 30 percent based on the 35 plus million dollars or is the actual cost of policing $51 million dollars and 70 percent is paid by Nunavut?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) The $35 million is our portion of the contract. The other 30 percent comes from the federal government through the agreement.
In addition there are other services that we utilize from RCMP that would not otherwise be available to us, such as testing, so those services are available to us via this contract. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Hickes: So we were talking earlier on how $35 million is a lot of money to spend on policing.
When the minister, please correct me, just stated that the actual cost of policing in Nunavut is $51,103,000.
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) It is within that range.
As well, there are other services that we are dependent upon for the RCMP they offer us as a result of being a country-wide police force that we would not otherwise be able to access. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Now, that is a lot of money.
Mr. Chairman, in March of 2013, the shared directional statement between the Minister of Justice and the RCMP commanding officer for 2012-14 was tabled.
In it, there are a number of categories that the RCMP, along with the GN, work towards that are in our communities, identifying youth, suicide prevention, family violence, crime reduction.
How is the progress of this shared statement measured?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My deputy minister meets with the RCMP, so I’ll get her to answer that question.
We have the opportunity... .
The RCMP services and the minister have a shared directional statement and the RCMP is always involved with suicide prevention as well as other services, such as young children and youth who could work with the RCMP with respect to languages, and they try to work with the RCMP.
The shared directional statement has been provided before, but in 2012, we want to be able to state that we have to have an agreement between the RCMP and the Nunavut government.
Whatever we do takes a long time, even though I meet with them every week.
I could use an example, maybe within four years, what good things have been done for the RCMP to implement the shared directional statement along with the commanding officer for the operation of the RCMP.
This is very slow, but we’re in talks with the RCMP and we would like to make it done a lot faster, Mr. Chairman.
I applaud the coordination between your department and the commanding officer within the “V” division here.
My question is: how is success or failure measured? Is it categorically or an overall, broad, just crime reduction numbers or is there community by community evaluation from the staff sergeants in each community on whether they feel that this statement is being adhered to and successful?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): I’ll have my deputy minister respond to this question as well because she is responsible for that.
We actually don’t have a measuring tool, but when we meet every week, we talk about the shared directional [statement]. Let’s say, every four months at a time, we review this directional statement and just generally talk about where are we at here.
It’s part of ours too. It’s shared directional and it’s not just for the RCMP, so we try to work on it together.
As I said earlier, we are more involved in operations, not the investigations but how the RCMP is running in Nunavut.
As a Department of Justice, as I said earlier, it would be very good to have a tool to measure but as everybody knows in Nunavut that it is really difficult to count how many crimes happened there or what was reduction.
Although every week we get information from the RCMP about major issues that are happening in Nunavut. We have those counts. Sometimes they’re less, sometimes not so much.
We are only just developing it this year. A little bit last year and part of this year. We are trying to make more efforts to see where we are at with the shared directional.
Where can we put more? I might be confusing everybody here and I’m talking too long.
We are on page E-5. (interpretation ends) Branch Summary. Justice. Law Enforcement.
I have no further names on my list. Total Operations and Maintenance, to be Voted.
I would like to ask a question. With respect to the RCMP, the Arviat Member of the Legislative Assembly asked a question about whether Family Services deals with people who are suicidal.
Because the RCMP are the first people to be called when there is a suicidal situation.
People who are at risk of committing suicide talk to whoever they want to talk to.
The RCMP do get a lot of calls but sometimes they find out through the cell phones or when somebody informs them and then they go and deal with the suicidal person.
I thank the deputy minister for her response.
Do you count how many people are suicidal? Do they gather the numbers, for example, how many people were suicidal in a year?
Ms. Williams (interpretation): Yes, we have a count.
I can say that from January to date there have been 13 suicidal individuals that have had some assistance. The RCMP get over 400 calls in the communities from people looking for suicidal individuals annually.
From January to date, 13 people have attempted suicide.
I thank the deputy minister for her good response.
This must be very hard to deal with and the RCMP is to help the people in each community and they have to protect and serve the people of the community.
Recently, I was down south. This is very hard to deal with and they must go through a lot during their employment.
The RCMP works very hard to try to help the people. Even though there are problems arising, there has to be a solution.
Thank you for the responses.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you very much. (interpretation ends) Branch Summary.
Justice. Law Enforcement. Total Operations and Maintenance, to be Voted. $35,772,000.
Chairman: Thank you. (interpretation) We are going to page E-6. (interpretation ends) Justice.
Branch Summary. Lawyer Support Services. Total Operations and Maintenance, to be Voted. $3,441,000.
I just have one question here and I’m sure everyone will get my theme.
In the priorities in 2014-15, in the second bullet, it has “Continue efforts to recruit and train Nunavut Land Claims Agreement beneficiaries as legal and legislative counsel.”
What is your department currently doing to accomplish this priority?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) We are trying to be as useful as we can be and trying to recruit as many Inuit as we can that we know that may be able to offer legal services.
We are also trying to support students who want to pursue a career in law. We’re hoping that we can improve our numbers in the long run and we will do whatever we can to support initiatives that may get us better numbers in our department. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
We are on page E-6. (interpretation ends) Justice. Branch Summary. Lawyer Support Services.
Total Operations and Maintenance, to be Voted. $3,441,000.
We are now on page E-7. (interpretation ends) We are now on page E-7.
Total Operations and Maintenance, to be Voted. $11,173,000.
We are going to page E-8. (interpretation ends) Justice. Branch Summary.
Corrections. Total Operations and Maintenance, to be Voted.
Under Corrections, I wonder: what measures has your department implemented to correct some of the serious deficiencies that BCC had?
That is a capital project and we are making some plans for it.
In the coming future when we do capital projects we will be hearing it again.
We are under Operations and Maintenance. Not capital. Just a reminder.
I will save that, like you say, for the capital (estimates).
How many inmates are currently at the Baffin Correctional Centre right now?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): We are looking for the figures right now.
As of May 16, total at the Baffin Correctional Centre was 81 inmates.
For 86 inmates, does that represent overcrowding still at the Baffin Correctional Centre?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Actually 81, it was a little overcrowded. Yes.
Can the minister give us an idea of how many inmates that building is built for? What is the maximum that you are really supposed to put in that building?
Mr. Okalik.  Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Yes, the optimum number is 65.
It is supposed to be 65 inmates but it is a little overcrowded right now.
Are we breaking any rules by having more than the number currently than it was meant to accommodate?
Does it pose any dangers to the inmates?
When it is in that situation it doesn’t look good but they are trying to do something about it. They are even building a relief building.
I know it’s obvious that the situation will improve once we get the relief structure completed.
How many inmates are currently held outside of Nunavut?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): As of May 16, there were 47.
Once you have the new building up to house more inmates, do you foresee the inmates that are in the south coming back to Nunavut?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): I don’t know what is going to happen.
Some of them get released after they do their time.
I can’t estimate how many inmates will be down there next year. Next year we will know.
The Baffin Correctional Centre needs to be renovated. We know that. Once we get into the capital estimates that will be brought back to the table.
I was talking about inmates who will probably be down south for a while due to us having no room here in Nunavut.
Once you get the building, will some of those inmates be coming back to be held here in Nunavut instead of down south?
That’s what we want to do if it’s possible. We would prefer to have them held in Nunavut if at all possible.
That’s what we always try to do whenever we can and we would prefer it if they were held in custody in Nunavut. However, when we don’t have room, we have no choice but to send them outside of Nunavut.
Can the minister tell us what the budget is to house inmates in the south outside of Nunavut, either in Yellowknife or anywhere in the south?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): I don’t have that figure in front of me right now, although I would like to respond to that.
I don’t have that figure in front of me right now. I can respond to you at a later date once I have the figures in front of me.
Ms. Angnakak: I look forward to that information so that everybody can hear it.
How are the facilities in Iqaluit, Kugluktuk, and Rankin Inlet for inmates different from each other?
Hon. Paul Okalik (interpretation): Once we get into the capital estimates, we will be making some amendments. Right now, we’re working on operations and maintenance.
The newer facility in Rankin Inlet seems like the most adequate right now, but I know that we will be making some improvements once we get that new relief structure working.
I was referring to programs and services offered to inmates, nothing to do with capital.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  Chairman (interpretation): Thank you very much.
They have different programs in each facility. The facility in Kugluktuk is the most open one. It’s a minimum-security facility.