EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
I think maybe a step back is just to explain how our organization is structured. We do have regular annual meetings of various levels throughout the organization in terms of their functions.
For instance, LHO managers and TROs, or tenant relations officers, would meet on an annual basis with regional program staff and have a group meeting to review issues. At those meetings, suggestions and feedback on what’s working and what’s not working is gathered. We do gather it at our district levels.
What we’re working on is creating better mechanisms to get that bubbled up to the headquarters office and better mechanisms to be able to make those revisions on a more ongoing basis.
This is going to be an evolving thing. I don’t think we’re ever going to have it perfect, so we want to create a mechanism so we can have continual improvements.
Ms. Angnakak: On page 5 of the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s Local Housing Organization Board Members Manual, this one here that we have been going through, it states that members of the local housing organization boards are expected to “make fair and open decisions, regardless of family connections.”
When I was looking at this, it’s in a bullet and it’s kind of like at the end of the first bullet, it says “…regardless of family connections, serving your community by making fair and open decisions.” Regardless of family connections, I thought it was a little bit subtle there.
I guess what I want to ask is: to what extent is favouritism and nepotism a concern with the local housing organizations?
I understand the question. However, since I don’t have the detailed information, I won’t be able to respond.
Perhaps Ms. Kimball can respond to that because she knows the operations of the corporation, if that’s okay. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
That is probably the number one feedback I get back from our district and program staff that do audits.
That has been one of our focal points for the past number of years.
I think it has significantly improved since we have put the procedure in place that when there are exceptions from the point rating system, it does have to be reviewed by our district office.
By creating that oversight and everybody knowing that it has go through that process, I think that has cut down quite a bit on some issues we’ve had in the past.
When you do have an issue of nepotism or somebody is accusing an organization of running or making decisions, but somebody else looks at it in a different way and says, “Look, there is nepotism going on here,” how do you deal with that?
What are your procedures?
Again, as this is a continuation of the line of questioning, I would like Ms. Kimball to respond. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
As allocations are made, they are supposed to be forwarded to our district for review.
It’s supposed to be reviewed prior to tenants actually getting keys and moving in. That always happens, but that’s supposed to happen.
If our districts have questions for follow-up, it is usually escalated to the programs manager within that district. They would communicate with the board any concerns we have for follow-up for feedback.
If we don’t feel that those concerns are being addressed, then it would be escalated to the district director. In some cases, the district director will even fly out and meet with the board to address any concerns.
I want to go on a little bit and again it’s in your board member’s manual on page 18.
I’m not going to read the whole thing, but I will read part of it.
It’s talking about the board has the authority to make a different decision than, perhaps, what a policy would suggest, such as allocating a unit to someone who may not be on top of the waiting list. It says in here, and I’m quoting, “…but the Directors must document the basis for that decision in the minutes and forward the documentation to the District Office.
In other words, the Board has the authority in exceptional circumstances to use their best judgement based on local knowledge and insight, but these decisions must be fair, rational, defensible and documented.”
On how many occasions over the last two years, perhaps, have the local housing organization boards formally requested approval from the Nunavut Housing Corporation to make a decision that perhaps deviated from the existing policy that you have in place?
Briefly to the question as to how many occasions, we don’t have that figure at this time on the LHOs.
We can discuss this or talk with the LHOs and then we can figure it out.
Ms. Angnakak: When we’re talking about exceptional circumstance, what does that mean to the Nunavut Housing Corporation?
There are many different means that can formulate the reasons on the client selection criteria or prioritizing the list. There can be different reasons for the exception, such as for the family or the person, and there can be various reasons.
Perhaps Ms. Kimball can provide an example where an association can sidestep the policies. Maybe Ms. Kimball can be allowed to elaborate as I know it was experienced quite a number of times for different associations.
Mr. Chairman, I would ask that Ms. Kimball supplement my response. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
One example that comes to mind is if there’s a fire or some sort of unexpected incident and they find themselves homeless unexpectedly.
We are in the process of working on the second phase of our rent scale software, which is going to allow the online tracking of applications. We’re actually going to have insight as to every point section available in the point rating system.
We will actually be able to analyze the data to see what are the different points being allocated and for what to get a sense of the different issues that is leading to the allocations.
It’s also going to give us more insight into the special circumstance scenarios.
I was going to ask about these requests, how many were approved and how many were denied, but because I didn’t really get an answer, that you didn’t know what kind of recommendations were made, I’m assuming that you wouldn’t have that information. Am I correct?
Hon. George Kuksuk: Yes, that is correct.
When we talk about considering such requests, what’s the role of the minister in this, if any?
That’s a very good question and I can’t personally respond to it.
Perhaps it’s in the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s legislation on the Minister responsible for the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s role in considering requests.
Perhaps Ms. Kimball can add to my response.
My response is that we use the housing corporation’s Act.
Within the management agreement itself, the management agreement does have clauses in it that does give the minister direct roles and responsibilities in terms of he has ultimate authority in terms of suspending the board or terminating the agreement if there are issues with the execution.
Basically, if the LHO side is not delivering what they are committed to, the minister can suspend the agreement.
If NHC is not delivering what we’re committed to, obviously I have a reporting role here, so the minister has roles on both sides.
I have a little over one minute that I can ask more questions, so I’ll get on with it.
In 2008, the Auditor General did a report and one of the recommendations that she [made] said that the Nunavut Housing Corporation should really “clarify the appeal process for applicants and tenants who feel they have been treated unfairly, and clarify the internal corporate procedures for managing the appeal.”
The Nunavut Housing Corporation subsequently committed to “developing an independent, transparent process that is simple and accessible.” As of today, what is the appeals process for public housing applicants and tenants who feel they have been treated unfairly by either the Nunavut Housing Corporation or their LHO?
I also thank the member for her question. When it comes to appeals, none have come to my attention personally, but this is a process managed by the district office or it goes through the LHO to the district office. These are the processes that we follow.
There’s an appeal process and it goes from the local housing organization to the regional districts and if it has to go any higher, we have policies to that effect.
That concerns me a little bit only because I have heard some real problems with the district office and the local housing organizations. There’s a clash with some of them. How do you deal with that?
Do you give them no choice but to go through the district office that they may or may not have a problem with? How do you deal with that and how do you ensure that their cases are being treated respectfully and transparently?
I’ll refer this question to Ms. Kimball for clarification on the process and how it is dealt with.
One of the things that NHC is very much focused on is rebuilding a relationship with the LHOs and as part of that, also working with our district staff in terms of how we relate to our LHOs and how we interact.
Earlier, we spoke of 10 people going on our community tour and that was actually why we did that.
We had our district staff and our headquarters representation as well as our directorate executives all together to send the same message to every level at the same time in the tone of how we want to communicate with our LHOs to set that precedent and to create that dialogue.
Unfortunately, that is our structure. The issue should come through the district. We are working on improving that, but there’s an escalation process.
If they’re not happy with the results they get from the district office, we do have our headquarters where the oversight for the entire rental program is there. It can go to that office and if that fails, there’s always my office.
There are multiple layers. If there is a layer with the problem, it should be able to go on beyond that.
Ms. Angnakak, you’ve got four seconds.
Ms. Angnakak: I know.
It’s enough to ask one question, four seconds.
On average, how many appeals are made each year by applicants who feel that they may have been treated unfairly either by the Nunavut Housing Corporation or the LHO?
I hope you have an answer because that was my last question.
Hon. George Kuksuk: I’ll make it very short.
We don’t have that information.
Chairman: I’ve got one more name.
Mr. Mikkungwak, you have eight minutes plus 120 seconds.
That’s plenty time there.
Page 3 of the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s Master Agreement for the Management and Administration of Local Housing Organization Programs states that LHOs “agree to ensure that all matters related to the affairs of clients and the corporation comply with the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act.”
In April of 2015, the Government of Nunavut amended the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Regulations to include housing authorities and housing associations under the definition of “public body.”
The new regulations provide that the Minister responsible for the Nunavut Housing Corporation has been designated as the “head of each housing authority and housing association.”
For the purpose of the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act, how is NHC helping LHOs to comply with their obligations under the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act?
I don’t know the exact details when it comes to the Privacy Act.
I’ll refer this question to Ms. Kimball on access to information.
NHC provides support through our policy shop.
If there are any access to information requests that come through our office, our policy shop provides the support and guidance to LHOs and work with the LHO staff. That saves us having to try to train 25 separate organizations on how to deal with one request that they might get every several years.
We do have some challenges, though, in terms of the technology used at the LHO level.
For instance, part of the ATIPP Act requires that you be able to pull all your email activities if there’s a request, yet not all of our LHOs have the technology and a system in place to be able to accommodate that.
Those are some of the things that we are looking at as we’re reviewing the management agreement and updating it. It’s to look at services we may be able to provide to support the LHOs so that they will be able to be more compliant.
When you’re talking about technology and seeing that the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act is very important, do you have a strategy in place to ensure that all LHOs are up to date with technology?
In this case, the managers within the LHO who are the day-to-day managers are provided training via workshops to ensure that they understand the information required from the LHO, which is the local association. Just as an example to answer his question, how they would deal with these needs and what information the manager is required to know in order to manage the association, and the needs are identified as part of the training process and this is where it should be done.
Mt. Mikkungwak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
To eliminate the hassle for the Nunavut Housing Corporation with the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act, as the official indicated, to eliminate the problem that you currently have, do you have a one-year strategy to update all the technology with all the LHOs?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Maybe Ms. Kimball can respond to his question on whether we have a strategic plan. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
At this point, we don’t have a strategy. That’s why we’re looking at different technologies and what our options are given the remoteness of locations, the Internet connectivity, the software, and the technology that could be run to be able to ensure that appropriate back-ups are saved and stored.
This is quite a big IT endeavour and therefore, IT is a key centre point around the revisions of the management agreement in terms of those services.
We are providing tentative services if LHOs choose to use them. For instance, we have created a nunavuthousing.ca set of emails for all LHO staff so the LHOs can receive that through a central server and that server then has all the technology to be able to track emails.
We haven’t developed a formal broad spectrum strategy for how we’re going to comply.
There is going to be quite a bit of cost and planning involved, especially given the technology and Internet realities in Nunavut.
I guess I was trying to be proactive, but maybe I’ll go on the flipside here.
Before you initiate that strategy, how many formal requests under the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act have been made to LHOs since the regulations were amended in April of this year?
The exact number of requests hasn’t reached me. We know that it’s dealt with through district offices and headquarters. I’ll have Ms. Kimball respond to the number of requests.
I don’t have a specific number with me. I know in the past, and I can’t recall if this is before or after that change because the LHOs have always been covered under the ATIPP Act.
It was just clarified with this revision.
We have had other requests in the past specific to LHOs, but we also get a number of broad requests to NHC that can include information that maybe exists at the LHO.
Would you be able to elaborate on that broad information that you’re referring to?
I’ll refer this to Ms. Kimball. It’s just an addition to the last question.
I don’t have the details with me at this time.
Seeing that there is no information, maybe I’ll move on to something else here.
On page 3 of the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s Master Agreement for the Management and Administration of Local Housing Organization Programs, it states that NHC will provide LHOs with “operations and maintenance funding based on the corporation’s Local Housing Organization Funding Formula.”
How often is the funding formula reviewed?
It is reviewed annually.
Mr. Mikkungwak: In circumstances where an LHO disputes its annual allocation under NHC’s local housing organization funding formula, how is the matter resolved?
As to how situations like that have been dealt with, Ms. Kimball deals with the LHOs, so I’ll get her to respond to it.
Whenever we see an issue, if there’s a deficit being run at any of our LHOs, we definitely work with our LHOs. Our district staff, we have district finance staff, program staff, technical and maintenance. They will all work closely with the LHO manager and also the board to understand what’s driving the variance.
Across Nunavut, we do look at the whole spectrum. We have very few LHOs at this point that are running annual deficits.
We’re actually in an overall surplus position.
When we compare similar size and scale LHOs, we look at why others are able to operate within their budget and why an LHO is struggling. We look at the specific line items to see if there’s an operational rationale.
So far, we have been able to identify steps the LHO can take to make changes to its operation to be in compliance with its budget.
We haven’t encountered a case where the LHO is completely unable to meet its budget without assistance or guidance in how they can manage.
I believe I was not answered.
With the LHOs that dispute, you guys really start discussing the funds and accounting procedures with the LHO.
If they have proven that they could be very operational, do you guys respect that or do you guys still stand your Nunavut Housing Corporation decision on that?
If I understand the question correctly, the funding for the operations, if they are able to do it with the funding they have in their organization, then they do, if it’s very obvious that they can operate and run things on their own as a local housing association.
However, if we need to deal with it or take it over for whatever reason, then we would have to follow the wording of the agreement or if they did not follow the wording of the agreement and we had to get involved, we would get involved.
Maybe I’ll move on from there.
Pages 3 and 4 of the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s master agreement, I’m referring to your document again, the Nunavut Housing Corporation’s Master Agreement for the Management and Administration of Local Housing Organization Programs states that LHOs “agree to deal with employees according to the terms of the corporation’s Local Housing Organization Personnel Manual, except where the Personnel Manual is superseded by a collective agreement.”
As of today, how many LHOs have signed collective agreements with their employees?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. With respect to his question about how many LHOs have signed the agreement, unfortunately we don’t have that information in front of us.
However, the majority of the associations have agreements like that.
Mr. Mikkungwak: I guess my question in addition to that would be: when you look at signed collective agreements, do you negotiate by the three regions separately or is that done as an entire Nunavut region?
Hon. George Kuksuk (interpretation): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. The local housing organizations independently negotiate their agreements.
They are local negotiations and agreements. NHC negotiates with individual LHOs to get their agreements done.
When you have these collective agreements that are signed, are they fixed for a number of years, for example, it’s a three-year agreement, four-year agreement, or two-year agreement?
What would the number be possibly for the majority of the local housing organizations or associations?
As I stated earlier, each local housing organization negotiates their collective agreement. They set it up themselves and they are different from each other. Some of them have multiyear agreements and others have agreements that are shorter.
As to the actual number, we don’t have that in front of us right now, but the LHOs negotiate their own collective agreements and there is no one-time negotiating and agreeing.
Mr. Mikkungwak: On page 3 of your September 14, 2015 letter to MLAs, you indicated that “as part of the development of a new Master Management Agreement, the NHC will be creating new recommended human resources policies for LHOs.
The new policies will help establish a more structured approach to human resources that will ensure fairness and protect LHOs against litigation.”
What are the specific problems with the LHOs’ current approach to human resources?
Ms. Kimball will respond to the details of the question.
Today’s environment in terms of staffing and employee relations is very legal.
Employees that are unhappy with, for instance, how they have been terminated, the creation of the legal contracts when they’re doing hiring contracts, all those aspects have a bunch of legal ramifications and if they’re not properly handled and not properly vetted, it creates a significant risk for the organization.
We do have a number of legal actions in progress.
I’m unable to get into the details obviously, but that’s creating a risk for NHC and we want to spend money on houses, not spend money on these types of litigations.
We want to make sure that we have some improved structure that is vetted by a legal set of eyes before we do things like employment contracts, terminations, employee relations management, that we’re following all the proper protocols to protect the LHO and to protect the government.
In what specific ways do LHOs need to have more structured human resources policies?
I would like Ms. Kimball to continue responding to this line of questioning. (interpretation ends) Thank you.
As I mentioned, it would be things like the employment contract and the language of employment contract, the execution of the employment contract, the timing of when it is signed, the timing of when employees start, if there is an issue in terms of performance management, how expectations are communicated with employees in writing in terms of performance, if the employee is not performing to satisfaction, what are the steps to take in how you communicate that with an employee to make sure that there has been proper opportunity for the employee to rectify the situation.
If it doesn’t go the right way, we do have to proceed with termination to make sure that we followed all the correct processes legally.
It would basically be around hiring, performance management, and termination.
When you’re looking at policies, aside from the three that you just previously indicated, what specific new policies are also being developed?
I don’t have the response to that in front of me, so I would like Ms. Kimball to respond to that if she can.
NHC is continually revisiting and looking at our procedures, things like the Tenant Relations Manual and our Rent Scale Manual. We have refreshed our Preventative Maintenance Manual recently. We’re in the process of revisiting other maintenance protocols and modernization and improvement protocols.
It’s not necessarily a policy. It’s more of supportive procedures that we want to improve the documenting of and get that circulated out to LHOs. All of those, of course, would be done in consultation with LHOs.
I don’t have specifics with me.
We have done a number of them over the past few years and we’re continuing to identify other ones as we have workshops with our LHOs.
If we identify ones that need to be refreshed, we start that process.
How many lawsuits related to human resources issues have been initiated against the LHOs over the past five years?
Regretfully we don’t have that in front of us. We would have to check with the local housing organizations in order to respond to the numbers.
Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the officials out of the witness table.
Your committee has been considering Tabled Document 107 – 4(2) and would like to report progress.
Mr. Keyootak. (interpretation ends) The motion is in order. To the motion.
Speaker: All those in favour.
Just a reminder that there’s a meeting tomorrow of the Regular Members’ Caucus at nine o’clock in the Tuktu Boardroom.
Motion 7 – 4(3)
Motion 8 – 4(3)
Motion 9 – 4(3)
Motion 10 – 4(3)
Speaker (interpretation): Thank you. (interpretation ends) This House stands adjourned until Thursday, November 5, at 1:30 p.m.
>>House adjourned at 17:34  Appendix – November 4, 2015
Report on the Review of the 2014-2015 Annual Report of the  Information and Privacy Commissioner of Nunavut