EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Ng. Mr. Iqaqrialu before you proceed, there are couple of different portfolios , so the Minister in front of us, is the Minister of Finance & Administration, I would prefer it if you would keep your questions in line with the Minister's portfolio and that you direct your questions to Finance and Administration.
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Chairman, when ever it’s financial it’s directly connected to the Minister of Finance and Administration and I think we should also state or emphasize that the Government of Nunavut has to look into the benefits package and that you have to work with the employees because they lost a lot of the benefits when they were employees of the GNWT.
In some ways it was beneficial where some of the benefits were cut because of other residents in Nunavut who did not have those benefits.
Still past employees miss those benefits and they’re expected to have them reinstated.
I would ask a person be appointed or you work with employees unions, that there be a working committees struck to review this issue.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Iqaqrialu please understand that each Department has a budget and although this is the Minister of Finance and Administration, all of the Departments have their own budgets and the Minister of Human Resources would be able to answer the question because it's more related to his portfolio, but if you wish, Mr. Minister you can speak to this, if you wish.
Mr. Ng: We're going to be waiting until Human Resources comes up.
My question to the Minister relates to forced growth and I’d like to know what the Minister has factored into the budget regarding forced growth, what’s the status on this issue?
Chairperson: Mr. Ng.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Mr. Chairman, there was no direct forced growth put into the main estimates of the departments in development of the budget, but it is recognized that there will be obviously those factors to contend with during the course of the year.
We have the reserve that will hopefully be able to assist in some ways and also as we get into the year in the spending of the departments we'll have a better idea what kind of flexibility if any there is within the spending government wide and plan to address it at that time.
Mr. Minister I believe you indicated that there’s was approximately 10 million dollars in the reserve.
Given that factor, if there’s nothing in the budget right now for forced growth, looking at the way we're expanding here in Nunavut, and we’ve been looking at power subsidies and so on.
Is it fair to say that it wouldn’t take very long to chew up that 10 million dollars, we’d find ourselves in that situation which Mr. Tootoo was referring to and find ourselves basically over spending.
Chairperson: Mr. Ng
Mr. Chairman, it certainly is an issue that we’re aware of and you're right and the member's right that 10 million dollars, if you look at it over all, at about a 600 hundred million dollar budget it isn’t a lot to reserve.
As I had indicated we’ve figured during the course of the year, as more departments get through their programming that there are going to be some not fully funded positions as a result of a slow recruitment process, that there will be a bit of flexibility, but again we have to be careful that we’re fiscally responsible and how we address that issue.
Just one final question in reference to this area.
Talking about forced growth and the 10 million dollars that we have now in reserve, and some of the factors that will cause some concerns in the coming months.
How has the Minister considered the decentralized modelled in reference to this budget.
I know you’ve indicated that which certain positions may not be filled, so maybe some money is left over, and of course that’s not my wish nor some of my colleagues here.
We see the decentralized model as probably the corner stone, one of the corner stones of the Nunavut Government.
So how has the Minister incorporated this into his overall budget.
Mr. Chairman, within the departmental budgets now, I have the understanding that they are funded to the levels of the decentralized model.
Mr. O’Brien: Mr. Chairman, we'll hold the Minister to that.
Chairperson: Mr. Kattuk
Mr. Kattuk (interpretation): Mr. Speaker, I just needed more clarification on the taxation issue, I think I heard someone speaking before, but I need more clarification as to how you are going to collect taxes or are you providing us a breakdown of information on how you can collect taxes, like fuel taxes, personal taxes and those items.
Mr. Chairman some instances, like for example income tax, the big one, income tax, we have a revenue collection agreement with the federal government as deductions that are taken off by employers are remitted to the federal government, they collect our portion on our behalf and then they return it to us.
That’s just one of the examples as obviously for consumer taxes like alcohol, and tobacco, petroleum products, that tax comes when a consumer purchase a product and the taxation goes back to the government, that was just some of the examples Mr. Chairman.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Ng. Mr. Kattuk.
Mr. Kattuk (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman I am just asking if you are going to provide detailed information on how you are going to collect taxes.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Mr. Chairperson, yes we will provide the information if it is the detail that the Honourable member is asking for in respect to how it is collected.
We will also provide the breakdown of the categories.
Chairperson (interpretation): Any further comments?
Minister, just a question in reference to one of the pension plans that was set up by the former government and how it relates to this government here.
It is my understanding that the pension fund, after all of the pensions were paid out, there would be approximately 9 million dollars left over, that was going to go back into the general funds.
Would the Nunavut Government see any portion of that 9 million dollars.
Chairperson (interpretation): Minister Ng or one of his officials.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Mr. Chairman, it is my understanding that it is part of the division of assets, liability agreement on the table that was entered into and agreed upon for the division of assets and liabilities.
So we will get our 44% portion.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. O’Brien.
Mr. Chairman, in reference to the division of assets and liabilities.
Can the Minister tell the members exactly how the process is set up and who from the Nunavut side is involved in this process to ensure that we get a fair and equal division of the assets and liabilities?
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Mr. Chairperson, I’ll ask Mr. Tootoo to speak to that one, as he was heavily involved in the aspects of that.
The agreement itself has been signed for some time, it’s in the implementation stage.
I was personally involved with the negotiations around the agreement and up until the signing and slightly afterwards.
Now for the implementation, there is an implementation committee set up to administer the agreement.
Rod Malcolm is here today as well, he’s the Assistant Comptroller General, and he’s Nunavuts' lead representative on the implementation committee for the division of assets and liabilities.
He and his staff are the ones who will be ensuring that the agreement is implemented in the spirit it was negotiated and that Nunavut gets its' fair share.
Chairperson: Mr. O’Brien.
Mr. O’Brien: Thank you Mr. Chairperson.
It’s my understanding that this government is to enter agreements, rather to contracts, of approximately 50% plus, services I guess from the GNWT.
Can the Minister tell members how that is impacting on this government?
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Thank you Mr. Chairperson.
Mr. Chairperson, for those specific services that are contracted back, the departments have the allocations that pay for those services because the reason why they‘re contracting back those services is they don’t have the staff in the department to do it.
So, they have the staffing dollars that are going to be used for the contracting fees.
Thank you Mr. Chairperson.
The cost of contracting these services, is it fair to say that it’s actually cheaper for us to contract these services, or is it costing us more as opposed to hiring their own people if these qualified people were available?
Chairperson: Mr. Minister.
Mr. Chairperson, each department made their own contractual arrangements for services.
But, generally speaking, I would think that they would be more of a cost because there would be some administrative fees on top of providing the services back to our government.
Chairperson: Thank you.
I believe those are just comments.
Anything else further?
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Chairperson.
In reference to the same question that was brought up in regards to contracting back to the territorial government.
I believe that it’s going to cost more, and I hope to see the Nunavut Legislative Assembly seek contractors within the Nunavut area instead of going outside of the Nunavut territory.
I believe that we will have to work hard to find contractors because of course we will be spending more in the long run if we contract the territorial government.
Mr. Chairperson, a lot of these services are provided by a government that already have the infrastructure established, and it can’t be provided by a general contractor because of the speciality and the expertise.
But overall, I intend, for the contracting first of all because we must recognize that the government of Nunavut on April 1st wouldn’t be capable of delivering 100% of all their services, there’s always that build up period to get fully operational.
But the intent is, for the next few years, would obviously be to as quickly as possible to get these capabilities within our own government of Nunavut personnel so that we’re controlling the delivery of programs and services as much as possible.
Chairperson (interpretation): Iqaqrialu, is that all?
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): Yes. I apologize Mr. Chairperson.
It’s a very important subject and, I believe that if we contracted from the Nunavut government, from the Nunavut area, it was just recently that this part of Nunavut was established.
We have to look at ways and means as to how we can increase our economic development around the Nunavut area.
Mr. Chairperson, I don’t disagree with the member, just the matter of the timing in respect to trying to build the capabilities within our own civil service to carry out those functions.
Chairperson: Mr. Nutarak.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Chairperson.
I wanted to return to a previous issue in regards to income tax.
As we heard, income taxes that are being deducted from both the federal and territorial government, does that mean that we will also be deducting a Nunavut income tax from our salaries?
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Yes, Mr. Chairperson, the Nunavut income tax is a percentage of the federal tax that’s collected.
So, we set the Nunavut personal income tax rate and it’s remitted to us from the federal government as part of their overall collection of income taxes.
Chairperson (interpretation): Any further comments, questions?
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): Maybe to use an example of the provinces, the rest of the provinces pay provincial taxes.
For example, in the province of Ontario, they pay 7% PST.
And my question is, is there going to be another level of tax imposed on the Nunavut territory?
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Right now, Mr. Chairperson, right now, no, there hasn’t been any additional taxes put in place for the Nunavut territory.
The Nunavut territory has no Provincial Sales Tax.
The Nunavut territory has no sales tax.
And, it’s the same income tax rate for personal income tax that we’ve taken over, to date.
Chairperson: Okay.
Mr. Nutarak, was that you?
Maybe they can’t hear me.
Mr. Akesuk (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Chairperson.
In reference to Mr. Nutaraks' question, what he was trying to ask the Minister was, is there going to be a Nunavut Services Tax sometime in the future?
Is there going to be an established Nunavut Services Tax sometime in the future?
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Mr. Chairperson, it’s too early to say one way or another.
I mean, as I indicated in response to Mr. O’Brien’s question about payroll tax, I mean, the issue of adequate taxation or inadequate individuals’ preferences on what they feel is adequate or inadequate is an issue that we’ll have to work through.
We’ll see what the sense is to develop the next budget.
Chairperson (interpretation): Very good now.
Questions or comments if there’s nothing further.
Quite a lot of hands came up.
Mr. Akesuk (interpretation): Thank you.
You mentioned 500 thousand hundred dollars for P3 initiative; can the Minister inform us what projects this will include?
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Mr. Chairperson, this doesn’t go into any specific project per se.
It’s for the development of the government of Nunavut’s policies and procedures surrounding how we would implement and go through the public/private partnership arrangements.
Chairperson: I still have two names on the list and, after these two have spoken, we’ll take a break.
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you Mr. Chairperson.
Just going back to that general question, you indicated earlier that the formula financing agreement allows for the decentralized model.
In your budget address, you indicated that this formula financing grant is intended to allow the delivery of the same level of services in Nunavut as was previously offered by the GNWT.
Do you feel confident that that same level, or are you comfortable with that same level of services will be provided to the residents of Nunavut based on the resources that we have to work with?
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Mr. Chairperson that is bit of a subjective question.
Yes, I would have to say that I would have to rely on the individuals that finished off the negotiations so that the funding that would be provided would be substantive enough to meet current programs that were being delivered within the government of the NWT, and the Nunavut settlement area.
And, as I indicated earlier, obviously over the course of this year there’ll be a better idea once we get into actually delivering and monitoring the expenditures to find out where there might be problems, difficulties, short falls, or areas that would cause us concern.
Going back to another question, you mentioned that the over-expenditure from the OIC office would be a liability that’s been carried forward that’s going to be offset against assets that we’re getting from the GNWT.
I’m not an accountant, but explain how something that was incurred in one year is offset against something coming in from another area.
I’m just wondering if you could clarify that for me because it’s not totally clear.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: I guess, the way I would understand it, if I’m wrong the accountants sitting here could correct me.
Basically, if we had, for example, 50 million dollars of assets for a transfer from the GNWT, as the net amount after the division of assets and liabilities is concluded, and if we had the 4 million dollars we used, as an example, for the Office of the Interim Commissioner as a negative.
So, the 50 less the 4, we would have 46 million dollars opening balance in respect to assets on April 1st, 1999.
That’s basically my understanding of it.
Chairperson: Your last question Mr. Tootoo.
Mr. Tootoo: Mr. Chairperson, when you talk about assets and liabilities, again, is there a time frame or of what we’re looking at it for when this process will be concluded and, if there’s any idea on an amount that may be there as well any problems that we may encounter?
Mr. Chairperson, it’s my understanding that the audit of the OIC operations may be concluded by the end of June.
Around that timetable.
For the assets and liabilities with the GNWT is October of 1999, I believe, where that is supposed to be concluded.
Chairperson: We’ll get back to you later on.
Mr. McLean: Thank you Mr. Chairperson.
My question to the Finance Minister is, the allocation of capital dollars is based on standards, criteria, health, safety, and other factors.
The standards and criteria that we brought over from GNWT are old and outdated.
It’s probably 10-15 years old.
Is your department looking at setting standards and criteria, and health and safety factors that reflect the true needs of the people of Nunavut?
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Mr. Chairperson, we haven’t undertaken that exercise as yet.
The plan would be to undertake that but the problem we have of course is the timing.
No, I’ve given the priorities of trying to get things up and running as it stands now.
We can only do so much with so many individuals, and we all recognize that we have a lot of hard working staff but they're not all fully staffed yet within the departments.
So, there’s a lot of issues that we have trying to get operational right now, that has been the priority of all of the departments.
Chairperson: Mr. McLean.
This will be my final question to that answer.
Are you going to need any time line there so the regulars members can have input and understand the standards and criteria practised and not like this time where it was thrown at us and we had to swallow it?
Chairperson: Minister Ng.
Normally, the Department of Public Works, our Public Works, Telecommunications and Technical Services have a big component of the development of standards and criteria in respect to facilities.
I don’t know what kind of timetable they would have.
Probably, when the Minister comes, you can ask on that.
But, certainly, in respect of overall goals and priorities, the five year capital planning projects that we’re planning on undertaking this fall, those kind of issues would be relevant in those discussions.
Chairperson: Perhaps we’ll take 10 minutes short break.
>>Committee Recesses
Chairperson: I apologize.
We’ll just continue on with the department. And I will just continue on with the names on the list that I have.
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): There’s a feedback somewhere.
In regards to, this is a supplementary to Mr. Tootoo’s comments, although Mr. Ng had responded by saying that there will be negotiations on the division of the liabilities and assets.
But, when you state that the regular members have no authority or input according to the way you responded, will we have input or will we be involved or will we participate?
Will we participate during the process of dividing the assets and liabilities?
Minister Ng, you may respond now.
Mr. Chairperson, there’s no plans for MLA’s or for Ministers for that matter to participate.
This is strictly an officials function because the formula and all the agreements were agreed upon prior to March 31st.
They're signed off by the government of the NWT, and the Office of the Interim Commissioner in respect to percentages and what counts and doesn’t count.
It’s all laid out in the division of assets and liabilities agreement that was agreed upon by the legal entities that had the authority to enter into discussions and make the final agreement.
So we’re following through in implementing what ever that agreement was just to make sure that there’s nothing that falls between the cracks.
Chairperson: Member, Mr. Iqaqrialu.
Prior to the establishment of the Nunavut government, all these processes were prepared before the election of the Legislative Assembly.
I feel that the Members of the Legislature should be involved.
Once we have been elected, we should be involved in the process, and we should also be involved in the agreements that have been signed off.
Since after being elected, can’t we make changes as Members of the Legislative Assembly, as elected people?
We also state that, in the programs, we would like to see programs according to the needs of Nunavut residents.
If we are not going to be able to make changes to the agreements that have already been signed, still the Members of the Legislative Assembly won’t be able to have any input, or, if they’re not involved in the process, it’s going to be senseless.
We should be involved, and we should deal with this issue again.
Even though the agreements have been signed off, with the territorial government and Nunavut government, I would like to be able to make changes and amendments to the agreements that were signed off.
Because, during my campaign, that’s what I spoke about.
Chairperson: Minister Ng, would you like to respond?
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Mr. Chairperson, I guess the way I would explain it is, it’s not a political negotiation, it’s not a political exercise.
It’s strictly an accounting of officials work is what it comes out to because there’s an agreed upon criteria to divide the assets and liabilities.
So, this point on, as we know it, we have the legal authority to make any changes for any current programs and services and that is what we intend to do after we have an assessment of what we’re delivering, and where our priorities would be collectively as an Assembly.
So that’s the only way I can explain it for the Member.
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): I’m finished.
Mr. Tootoo: Mr. Chairperson, there’s been some fairly detailed news coverage on the 20 million dollars that’s going to be put in housing for Nunavut.
Correct me Mr. Minister if I’m mistaken, I think it just recently covered in the National news and so on.
Can the Minister tell us exactly how that money is going to be distributed, what type of housing?
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Mr. Chairperson, when the Minister of Community Government, Housing and Transportation comes before the committee, we’ll have the details of the breakdowns and the programs that are being proposed for those funded under his department.
I don’t have that detail before me.
In respect to the budget, I present the broader government programs, highlight some of those programs to the Assembly and deliver the budget speech, and the details.
That’s why we have the Cabinet, and the Ministers that are responsible for their portfolios to provide more of the details of what their programming is Mr. Chairperson.
I understand what you’re saying Mr. Minister, and that’s fine if we’re talking about one hundred thousand dollars.
We’re talking about 20 million dollars.
Let’s say we have $20,000,000.00 dollars for housing, is it for social housing?
Is it home ownership?
You must have some preliminary concepts you are going to pass out to the Members here.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Mr. Chairperson, we are dealing with the Finance and Administration department budget today, and broader government responsibilities and initiatives that will fall under the department of Finance and Administration.
Again, I don’t have the details for the Community Government, Housing and Transportation budget here. And, it’s more appropriate for that Minister to be responding to the programs within his jurisdiction, not me as a Finance Minister.
I’ll accept then, Mr. Chairperson, if the Minister doesn’t know what exactly the 20 million dollars is for.
But, I think, we’ve gone through a lot of detail this afternoon on various issues, and I just thought that it was a more than fair question to find out if it was social housing or home ownership.
I think it is pretty large sum of money that we’re talking about.
I thought that information would be readily available.
No more questions thank you.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: Mr. Chairperson, I had indicated, I’m not the Minister of CGHT.
I know that the 20 million dollars is for delivering up social housing programs.
Home ownership is a whole blend of a housing component.
It’s pretty broad when you talk about housing, and the Minister has that detail.
I don’t have that detail here.
If I had it, I’d provide it to the Member.
Chairperson: Your last question Mr. O’Brien.
I’ve indicated that I accepted that the Minister did not know what the money was for, and that’s fine.
Chairperson: Mr. Irqittuq.
Mr. Irqittuq (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Chairperson.
Although you responded to this question I would like to comment on it further that we will go into a deficit a little bit over 5 million dollars.
Would the Minister be able to look for new dollars from the Federal Government to be utilized for this deficit because it seems that this deficit is not the responsibility of the Nunavut Government.