EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
The anticipated completion time in the 5-year plan would be in 2006-2007.
Those are the plans.
She stated that the completion date is for 2006-2007.
Does that mean that it is not concrete yet as to when the completion date of that arena will be?
We can look at this further and see what kind of adjustments can be made.
I can only respond in this manner.
The minister stated that it is in the plans but from what I heard and the way I heard it, it seems very likely that there might be delays over the years, for example moving it to 2007-2008 to complete it.
In the year 2004-2005, we have 77 thousand dollars for architectural drawings.
If that is approved by the Members of the Legislative Assembly during the budget session then things will fall in place.
We have no further Oral Questions.
Before we move on I'd like to make a comment since no one else is did on my Atigii.
It was made especially for me by the Deputy Speaker's wife, Lorraine Puqiqnak.
I have one made by the ladies of Arviat at the sewing factory in the Keewatin, this one from the Kitikmeot and I could use one from the Baffin.
That is a hint.
Written Questions. Item 8.
Return to Written Question 14 – 1(5)
I wish to advise that the Return to Written Question 14 – 1(5) asked by the Member from Baker Lake has been filed and tabled by the Minister of Public Works and Services.
Tabled Document 086 - 1(5): Mayor’s Invitation to Sit in Resolute Bay
I am tabling a letter from the mayor inviting the Member’s of the Legislative Assembly to Resolute Bay for their session in the fall.
It is signed and translated.
Tabled Document 67 - 1(5), Motion 21 - 1(5), Bill 23.
We will have Mr. Puqiqnak in the Chair.
Before we go into Committee of the Whole we’ll take a 20-minute break.
>>House recessed at 3.07 p.m. and resumed at 3.35 p.m.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you for returning to the House and welcome to the visitors in the gallery and members.
We have Tabled Document 67-1(5), Iqaluit District Education Authority, Bill 23 and Motion 21-1 (5), what is the wish of the committee.
The committee would like to deal with Motion 21-1(5), Quality of Gasoline and Tabled Document 80-1(5).
We will deal with Motion 21-1(5).
Does the committee agree that we’ll deal with this motion?
Minister Kattuk, you may now start with your opening comments.
Thank you for the opportunity to address concerns about this year’s gasoline supply.
I would like to introduce two members of the department that are with me today, Ross Mrazek, Deputy Minister of Public Works and Services and Susan Mukpah, Director of Petroleum Products Division in Rankin Inlet of the Department of Public Works and Services.
Also joining me is Dan Wispinski, from the Alberta Research Council.
(interpretation ends) Mr. Chairman, nine Nunavut communities have contacted either myself or my department to formally express concern over the quality of this year’s gas re-supply.
Tests conducted by the Alberta Research Council confirmed that Nunavut’s gasoline supply was well within the normal ranges according to the Canadian General Standards Board.
The Petroleum Products Division of Public Works and Services held their annual conference in Rankin Inlet from February 6-8.
At that time, the gasoline issue was discussed at length with the contractor, Nunavut Transportation Company Limited.
Acknowledging that complaints were continuing, the Department of Public Works and Services took the next step.
That step has taken us to England.
After having Nunavut test samples complete and pass all the available tests in Canada, samples were sent to England for a specialized testing called complete composition analysis.
It took some time to get all the samples to England because of airline regulations regarding dangerous goods.
I am expecting results from the tests in England any time now.
My department has been very proactive on this issue.
I support the actions that they have taken and I have directed that additional tests in cold weather conditions be conducted.
I hope my opening comments answer some of the questions of the committee on the gasoline quality issue.
Mr. Chairman, thank you for the attention of the committee.
I welcome any questions committee members may have at the time and again, I would like to recognize the experts here with me to assist in responding to your questions.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Minister responsible for Public Works & Services. Does the committee agree that the minister take a seat at the witness stand with his officials?
Sergeant-at-Arms, please bring in the witnesses.
When the witnesses are first brought in, the minister is usually asked to introduce them.
So minister, could you please introduce your witnesses.
To my right, is the Deputy Minister of Public Works & Services, Ross Mrazek, to my left, is Susan Muckpah, Director of the Petroleum Products Division in Rankin Inlet.
We also have Dan Wispinski, from the Alberta Research Council, who is sitting in the gallery.
During the Committee of the Whole we are dealing with Motion 21 – 1 (5).
The members are given 10 minutes for general comments.
After general comments, the members are free to direct questions to the minister.
In regards to the gasoline quality in Nunavut, there is some work being done in our community looking at the quality of the gasoline.
As a hunter I used to travel on snowmobiles so I am familiar with the use of gasoline.
Last summer the gasoline re-supply that was brought into our community was not right.
It was different. From the smell and even the look of it you could tell there was something wrong with the quality of the gasoline.
I could also state that with automobiles it seems like there was tar.
There were concerns raised with the use of gasoline and there were problems in our community.
When we were trying to warm up our snowmobiles we started to have problems with them. As hunters we have great concern over that and I think the gasoline was missing some components.
I think the gasoline was more for helicopters or airplanes. As a hunter I want the gasoline to be corrected. Perhaps it could be mixed so that there is more supply in the community.
I know even though there were studies being done, the people that are doing the study aren't aware of the climate in the north. I think in the north our climate is so harsh the study should have been done here whereas the study was being done in the south where the climate is different. This gasoline was probably more suitable for a southern climate.
During the summer we are going to see a lot of hunters going out on boats in nice weather. The weather up here is really unpredictable so we have to think of our hunters who will be traveling out on the land during the year.
As a hunter we have to look at the fact that there are a lot of hunters who get stranded out on the land. We have to consider problems such as this.
The hunters should have some input as to how this study will be done because they’re aware of the problems that they’re having.
I think it would be most appropriate to have the study done up here.
I know that this has been very costly.
Quite often when Nunavummiut ask for certain supplies, or certain things to be reviewed, we are often told that there is not enough money. But as Nunavummiut, I think our concerns should be heard.
We just have a lot of concerns about how money is being spent and as Nunavummiut I think that we should be heard.
There’s high unemployment in our communities.
Nunavummiut are not given enough opportunities and hunters from Nunavut have lost a lot of money because of this problem.
It doesn’t just affect the hunters, it also affects people that have to drive their snowmobiles to work and we need to consider the concerns that are affecting all the people of Nunavut.
The people who have suffered damages due to the gasoline should be compensated.
If you are going to have questions, maybe you could wait until we open the floor to questions from the members.
There’s a problem with the quality of gas here in Nunavut.
In my communities, especially Repulse Bay, there have been problems encountered.
The Hondas and mobile equipment have been breaking down.
I believe that these people should be assisted, especially the ones that go out hunting quite frequently. They realize that the quality of gas is not up to par because they know their machinery.
I feel that there should be some assistance or some compensation given to those people that are experiencing the break down of their machinery.
It’s a danger to the hunters because they might end up stranded out on the land or on the water and they could die because of a breakdown with their machinery due to the quality of gas.
What kind of assistance can the government or the people that have sold us the gas give to replace the machinery the hunters’ equipment.
Our constituents have experienced hardship because they don't have any extra money when their machinery breaks down.
I wanted to make these comments, Mr. Chairman.
I hope that the department is doing whatever it can to bring the quality of gas up to par.
This is very dangerous for the people of Nunavut if they keep on having that quality of gas.
I know this summer when the hunting starts again there might be some people that break down in the middle of the sea.
As well during the cold weather when they go out in the wintertime, those are the people that we have to protect.
We cannot put our constituents in danger because of the quality of gas.
I am happy to have the minister and his officials here.
I also want to welcome the person from Alberta.
I have a short comment Mr. Chairman because I have some questions later on.
I would like to make a comment about the minister's opening comments.
There were two other members that spoke about the danger and the safety of the hunters in the communities.
This gasoline is going to pose a danger to those hunting in May, June and July in my community.
There are going to be a lot of people that are going to be going out on the land for pleasure and for hunting.
Some of them are not very sure whether they are going to go out on the land in the summertime because they are not really sure whether that gasoline is going to be replaced or whether it is going to break their machinery.
There have been about 35 snowmobiles that have broken down in my constituency.
I have mentioned those to the minister. The minister stated that there is nothing wrong with the gas.
The people in the communities and my constituents will want to go out hunting in the summer and in the winter.
The Member from Repulse Bay stated that they have had problems for quite some time, and the government knew the quality of gasoline was not up to par.
I will have some questions later on for the minister and his officials.
There are a lot of people experiencing problems due to the poor quality of gasoline.
There are also problems that people are experiencing when they go to Arctic Bay and Pond Inlet by snowmobile.
I know that there are going to be a lot of people experiencing the breakdown of their machinery if the quality of gas stays the same.
As well in Iqaluit I know that there are a lot of people experiencing breakdowns with their machinery.
I would like to ask questions later on about the minister's opening comments.
The floor is open to general comments from the members at this time.
I will give the members the opportunity to make their comments first.
I thank the minister and his officials for appearing before us today.
This winter the quality of gas has been pretty bad for the machinery here in Nunavut.
We are not just saying that the quality of gasoline is bad as we have a lot of information from our constituents about their problems.
The hunters that tell us that they are having problems are not saying it just for the sake of saying it.
Even though Inuit people didn't have any training in those things, they always look at their machines to find out what the problems are.
We have been using snowmobiles for quite a while ever since they were brought up to the north.
We have been using them for that long.
The people out there know the running of the motor and other things.
They realize that there is something wrong with the gasoline because they check their machinery in the winter and summertime, when they are going long distances from one point to another.
They never used to think about having a break down because they knew they were going to run smoothly.
Can we believe our government saying that there is nothing wrong with the quality of gasoline?
I could provide another example, but the government has said that the quality of gas is fine.
We had a different sort of gas than the people of Gjoa Haven but the member from Gjoa Haven brought this up before now.
When I was in Hall Beach I heard on the radio that the people of Iqaluit were experiencing problems as well.
I told myself that perhaps people would start believing us.
I’m not trying to just say that there’s something wrong with the gasoline but we wanted to make sure that the gas was analyzed.
I don’t want to keep on talking about it but I’ll ask some questions later on.
I’m welcoming general comments from the members at this time.
Mr. Chairman, I think I can echo my colleagues concerns with the problem of the gasoline that seemed to be plaguing a number of communities in Nunavut for mere safety, the risk factor to the people that use it, hunters are out hunting and if something happens to the machine and it breaks down.
Another thing here, in Iqaluit we have a lot more recreational snowmobilers and I think those people may be at a higher risk because usually they don’t have the knowledge and skills to survive on the land if something does happen to them.
There are all sorts of mechanical breakdowns and again if it’s caused by the gasoline, then I think that that’s one of the things that we want to try and find out today from the minister and his staff.
Find out what some of the problems may be and some of the issues and concerns that we’ve heard around the quality of the gasoline.
I’ve heard of things and I’ve seen them.
I went down to the snowmobile shop and the guy showed me a sample of gasoline that was taken out of a gas tank that looked like coffee.
It was unmixed gasoline.
Also, he showed me the coating on the inside of the machine, the crankshaft that looked just like a brown, beige coating all over the inside.
Apparently, whatever it is that’s in there, the jets are getting clogged up and the rings seemed to be, the stuff, whatever it is seems to be getting in behind the rings and causing problems with the engine.
I think one other factor that we have to look at and try and find whatever the problem is, we need to identify it because a lot of the people that are having problems are sustenance hunters.
When you have machines that are worth anywhere between 8 to 15 thousand dollars, it’s not inexpensive to get those machines fixed and a lot people are having problems that a lot of people can’t afford, continual breakdowns of their snowmobiles to pay for new pistons or things like that.
I think one of the other issues that I’ve also heard from owners of automobiles they’re having problems with their fuel pumps.
They’re always getting clogged up which is again something that is a new phenomena this year, just in this last year that didn’t seem to have that problem to the frequency that we’re having that seem to happen now here in Iqaluit.
So I think the problem is based on what standards that our gas is all right by. Are there different, quite obviously there seems to be something that is different about our gasoline that we have this year. I will try to find out what it is.
Maybe it doesn’t affect something that we normally test for, and I don’t know if that leads to some of the problems that we are facing. I look forward to getting those things answered here over the next day or so, however long it takes to try to get it resolved or find out what the problem is because I think whether it is or isn't a problem with the gasoline, we need to find out.
If it isn’t the gasoline, then we should be working at trying to find out exactly what it is.
All of the machines whether they are an older or newer snowmobile, older vehicles, newer vehicles, they all seem to be having this problem. I don’t think that it is something specifically to do with some type of vehicle that is out there.
There has to be some other common link and we need to find out what it is.
I also look forward to asking the minister a number of questions and one just in his general comments he had indicated that they are doing some additional quote weather condition testing for the fuel.
I know that hadn't been done to date.
Is there a standard test that we do or look at for fuel we know is going to be used in the cold conditions?
Are there things that we need to have different in our fuel because of using it in cold conditions and things like that.
I look forward to being able to ask the minister and his staff those types of questions.
I would just like to thank the member Ms. Williams, for bringing forward and tabling this letter so that we have a mechanism to address this problem that really seems like a plague in a lot of our communities.
Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this because one way or the other it's the people in our communities that are at risk both financially and if they are out in the land, something terrible could happen out there as well.
We need to find out what the problem is and how to solve it.
I look forward to questioning the minister on that over the next day or so and try to resolve it.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you. I have no other names on my list for general comments.
I will now open the floor, just a minute.
Our item this afternoon is to deal with the tabled document regarding the quality of gasoline in the Baffin Region and Nunavut in general.
It has had an affect on the people of Nunavut.
I would like you to keep your questions to the issue at hand so that we will be well co-ordinated.
I will now open the floor for questions.
Mr. Chairman, in the minister's opening comments, he mentioned that he had directed additional testing for cold weather conditions to be conducted.
Is this not a factor that they take into consideration when they initially purchase the fuel to be used in the north?
It has been determined after the tests were conducted that this gasoline is good for cold weather conditions.
Mr. Tootoo: So I guess those additional tests have been done and they do have the results for them.
After we started getting complaints about the quality of gas, samples were sent down south.
Some of the members were saying the samplings were done in a warm climate.
I told my staff to make sure that the testing that was done included testing the gas at minus 40 to see if there is going to be a variation between testing it in a warmer climate and also testing it in minus 40 degree weather.
So that is how I have directed my department and the people that are doing the study.
Mr. Chairman, I would just like to ask the minister, I don't know whether those tests are done or not.
Can he or his staff explain the difference in which the gasoline burns?
What is the difference between warm temperature operations and say minus 30, 40 operations?
How does the fuel react differently and what kind of things do we need to look for in ensuring that it still operates properly at those colder temperatures.
What is the difference between warmer temperatures?
I will refer your question to one of my officials.
Chairperson (interpretation): Minister Kattuk if you could introduce your official please.
Mr. Wispinski: My name is Dan Wispinski.
I am from the Alberta Research Council.
Chairperson (interpretation): In order to proceed properly please refer to the chair before you make your statements and after you make your statements.
I am not sure how to pronounce your name.
Mr. Wispinski: Mr. Chairperson forgive me for any indiscretion, of course I am not used to sitting here.
I am actually quite honoured to be here and happy to have the opportunity to answer any questions to the best of my ability.
I’d like to address the Honourable Member’s question about the cold weather testing and what makes the difference between warm weather and cold weather for gasoline.
It would be something called volatility and this is controlled by vapour pressure.
The vapour pressure has to be high for the northern country and it’s ordered especially to meet those requirements.
That is something that the Alberta Research Council tested for in their investigation and the higher pressure enables an engine to start when it has cold weather.
When there is cold weather you have to have high vapour pressure in order for engines to start.
In warm weather the vapour pressure has to be lower so that the gasoline does not boil at ambient temperatures.
I wonder if the minister could indicate, at the cold temperature that we operate under, I would assume that would be the standard at which we get our gasoline and we wouldn’t be ordering it to be at the higher end of the warmer season.
The vapour pressure, the volatility that he talked about, what would be the recommended whatever, volatility or vapour pressure that he’s talking about for the cold weather conditions that we operate under.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you. Mr. Wispinski.
Mr. Wispinski: The vapour pressure is ordered to a standard of 90 Kilopascals.
That is the proper vapour pressure for this climate.
If that is the proper pressure that we look for, is all our fuel tested to ensure that it has that as a minimum level.
Mr. Wispinski: Mr. Chairman, yes, all the gasoline is tested to all the vapour requirements.
Is that pressure something that could be affected over time or say if when we first, you know, how many times is it tested.
And is it something that can be affected over time or is there anything else in the fuel that could be affected over time.
A lot of communities get our fuel once a year so, later on in the year, I don’t know if later on, if it’s so long, does that have an affect on that level or any other levels that are minimum specs.
Mr. Wispinski.
Mr. Wispinski: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The vapour pressure can fade I guess with time.
The gasoline exposed to air can evaporate and change.
Is it something, just when we buy it or is it something that is monitored on a regular basis?
Ms. Makpah.
Ms. Makpah: The fuel is tested during the course of the year.
The first time we test it is prior to discharge from the vessels and then once it’s in our tanks we wait for about 24 hours and then we draw another sample from there. Then it’s sent down to Alberta Research Council for testing.
It all depends on which product it is.
For gasoline it could be a year for testing.
Am I correct in understanding that this is the first time that the fuel is tested?
Just prior to being off loaded before going to the communities.
Not prior to and before we buy it.
Chairperson (interpretation): Ms. Makpah.
Ms. Makpah: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
It is tested before NTCL buys the product for the Government of Nunavut.
What happens is that the fuel is tested again when the ship comes into the community.
We draw a sample from the vessel itself.
We also draw samples from the old batch. Once the fuel is tested from the vessel it is discharged to the tank farms and we wait for about 24 hours before it settles down and then we draw another sample from the tank farm with the new batch in it.
We then send that out to the lab in Alberta.
I am sure I am not the only one that has questions on the sampling and checking that.
When you look at the fuel that we have, and I really noticed it this year in my vehicle, the smell of the gas and the exhaust from my vehicle. It is a lot more sulphuric. I am wondering if that has increased over previous years’ supply of fuel or not.
What would cause that smell?
Has something been added to the fuel.
Or is it just something that we never noticed before.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Tootoo. Ms. Makpah are you going to respond.
I will refer your question to Mr. Wispinski.
Mr. Wispinski: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The smell is a subjective analysis.
It is not usually part of any fuel specification.
Again it is a subjective thing. It is an opinion of a person and it is not part of a specification.