EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
This is a very small amount, I think it is a $2,000 increase from the 2003-2004 actual estimates.
I am just wondering why with the increased value of assets in the community that that amount isn’t growing more?
The overly determining factor has been the purchase of the Sivuniksavut Building.
That is the difference that you see in the figures as a result of the purchase.
So looking at this then I assume that they pay $2,000 in taxes for that building there.
Hon. Peter Kilabuk: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation): I apologize, Mr. Chairman.
The increase in the Grants in Lieu of Taxes has increased by $100,000.
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Is that then the Grant difference in that is how much of a Grant that the government is giving in lieu of taxes for that one building that he is talking about?
In that case when are we going to see any increases for the projects that are ongoing right now?
We have a new Justice Centre, the new Hospital, Health Facility.
For those projects when are we going to see any Grants in Lieu of Taxes for those coming on line?
Those will not be reflected until the buildings have been completed and not until the facilities are operational.
Mr. Tootoo, are you done?
Mr. Evygotailak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I have a question in regards to page J-7. This reflects to the Nunavut municipalities.
In regards to the Land Claims; Article 23, which reflects the budget for the hamlet staff, for example, the Recreation Coordinators.
The monies are for the MTO and the hamlet employees.
The training is given through the MTO.
Well this was a question from the local hamlet, from my constituency.
They have stated that Article 23 of the Land Claims has to be used.
I’m happy to hear that this has been worked on.
I have a question in regards to the Consumer Affairs.
I don’t think that we’re concentrating enough on consumer affairs.
Especially, Inuit are not given enough information.
Usually what they do is request personal information.
I don’t think that there is enough information out there for the consumers.
It’s hard to get that information at the community level now.
Do you have enough resources working in the consumer affairs?
The information that we do get at the community level in regards to the safety issues, hazardous products and even the stuff that are recalled in the southern provinces, is not known up here or the information doesn’t make it to the people.
Consumers have to be aware of all these issues.
Is your Consumers Affairs Division properly set up and developed.
Our staff in Protection and Development and lots or business licensing, I work on those and we also work with Industry Canada under the federal government to make sure that the information that is brought up here is translated into Inuktitut.
Those are the majority of the tasks that they work on.
I would like to ask the Deputy Minister himself, because he runs the whole department, whether or not we have a division that deals with consumer issues, consumer affairs that are really able, qualified.
Do we have enough strength then, to keep up with consumer matters and so on?
Is there enough personnel in that division to make sure that the safety requirements, even some times recall products that are not safe sometimes.
In general, is there a program or division in that office, if it exists, that is able to respond properly to Nunavutmiut and to inform them of issues that they need to know?
I would like him to explain a bit about whether or not there is such a division that is really able to deal with those issues that are concerns to Nunavutmiut.
Hon. Peter Kilabuk (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, I will get Mr. Rich to elaborate on that because we have a staff in Baker Lake who deals with this.
Chairman: I’m sorry Mr. Curley.
Yes, we have a Consumer Affairs section which is located in Baker Lake.
We have two professional staff who are located there who now have a substantial amount of experience working with Consumer Affairs related issues.
We identified as part of the department reconfiguration process a year ago when we were joined into a new larger department that we wanted to increase the focus on Consumer Affairs.
So we actually moved the reporting structure so that it reported more closely to headquarters.
The Consumer Affairs section now reports more directly to the policy section in the department.
One of the reasons for doing that was so we could increase the emphasis on consumer information.
We’ve started a major project this year in two types of information.
The minister mentioned one which is the translation of a lot of Consumer Affairs information that we’ve been able to obtain from Industry Canada, who has the federal responsibility for Consumer Affairs.
A second major project that we’re working on with the Department of Education is the consumer information package for students that will educate them and get them to be better aware consumers in the market place.
We’re working on that now.
One of the major challenges is to adapt the materials into a northern context and make sure that they’re relevant to students and to communities here and also available in the appropriate languages for here.
In addition to that, we’ve forged closer links with the Department of Justice, which has the legislative and regulator responsibility for that.
We work regularly with one of the lawyers there to provide advice and guidance on Consumer Affairs related issues.
Over the next period of time, we hope to see further developments in Consumer Affairs.
We would certainly agree that it’s a very important area.
You did mention the issue of product recall.
It’s not necessarily something that falls under Consumer Affairs.
It depends on what the issue is.
For instance, there was a recent notice on recall on a certain type of flourescent light bulb.
We actually provided the information on that through the Electrical Inspector’s Office and he works as necessary with Consumer Affairs to make sure the information is there.
Mr. Curley: Yes, Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I certainly appreciate the outline of what the role of the Consumer Affairs Division is.
It is important that we do get that information and out to the public as well in general.
There are in my view, the department must take a lead role in providing information with products that are recalled from time to time.
If you don’t do it, who else is going to do it?
That’s the kind of thing that I’m saying.
I appreciate the Deputy Minister responding to that.
I have another item that I want to raise.
One is with regard to administering the lottery program.
It seems to me that there are so many charitable groups in the communities, practically other than the hamlets, groups in the communities they’re all probably have a charitable license and able to qualify for such licenses to raise money.
Don’t you think that the minister, or his deputy, think that it’s time now to really actually review the whole criteria that is normally used for giving such licenses because what I’m leading up to is that these lottery licenses or for all that matter, the bingo licenses, if they’re available, that you have created a tremendous gambling addiction.
There is no way, even some of the Child Tax Credit, once they’re cashed in, they’re normally spent on gambling.
It sounds good to me that you’re administering a lottery program but is there any attempt to have a major review and maybe bring back some concerns to the committee or to the public at all?
Chairman: Thank you Mr. Curley, Mr. Minister.
I totally agree with the member, that this needs a review; this is a matter that has been raised with me a number of times, and also the types of licensing for the different organizations.
So I agree this is something that my department should undertake to complete a thorough review of the way the different organizations are licensed through our department.
Mr. Curley: (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I would like to thank the minister for saying that they would be reviewing that Lottery Licensing Program.
But there’s been a lot of gambling addictions, just like people are addicted to alcohol.
Some people just want to wait for the day for when they’re going to have a bingo.
I would appreciate the minister saying that and support the minister saying that going to be reviewing that, because the criteria could probably be changed, especially in a bigger community like Rankin Inlet.
Every week there’s gambling going on, like through lottery licensed establishments.
Like sometimes we don’t even have time to visit any more.
And another question that I have in regards to insurance.
Are those licenses run by the Justice Department, or do they go through, there not just a motor vehicle insurance but I feel that the consumers insurance have to do with consumers.
I’m sorry but if I could get some clarification from the member, the insurance, under the Department of Transportation, they deal with insurance, but I’m not really quite sure exactly which one, which his talking about, what types of insurance.
Chairman: Perhaps if Mr. Curley can give us a clarification.
Mr. Curley: (interpretation): Insurance in general such as regulations and guidelines of insurance, I don’t think, I’m not really sure who deals with them, such as there are a lot of insurance policies or regulations that we have to deal with, or have to follow.
Like if somebody wants to get a business license because there liability insurance is pretty huge.
Consumer Affairs are not dealing with those types of situations are they?
If I’m not mistaken, our department has nothing to do with insurance; it’s been dealt with by the Department of Justice.
Mr. Curley: (interpretation): Yes, I understand, and I will deal with the appropriate department, because there are a lot of insurance sales people in Nunavut.
I will ask the Department of Justice.
That’s it from me for now.
Mr. Chairman: Thank you Mr. Curley.
Under G-6 it states that for programs and services.
Just last summer, the Cambridge Bay office they are now dealing with its regional office, with my constituents now dealing with the Cambridge Bay office.
My constituents want to voice their concerns to the minister and his office.
There were concerns from the member’s constituents that I have written them a letter now informing them of the correct procedure.
I just wonder why Resolute Bay and Grise Fiord, how come they are transferred to Cambridge Bay office now?
It was relocated to Cambridge Bay, the services provided to those two constituencies, Resolute Bay and Grise Fiord.
They are now using Regional Offices over in Cambridge Bay because we wanted to serve them better.
While we are in that line item if the minister could let me know whether Grise Fiord and Resolute Bay are getting petroleum products from the western Kitikmeot region?
We are not quite in that section yet.
They received the same as the Baffin region communities.
At this time I know that we will be dealing with the Petroleum Products Division but I just wanted to get some first hand information.
The people of Pond Inlet are a de-centralized community and there is also a department dealing with some of the communities.
There are five people that are working for the Petroleum Products Division over there.
I will be speaking in English. (interpretation ends): Are these five positions responsible for Petroleum Products Division’s function for the Baffin region?
Chairman: Mr. Barnabas, could you tell us which page you are on?
Mr. Barnabas (interpretation): Maybe I am ahead of myself, Mr. Chairman.
I will get back to it when we get to that item.
Chairman (interpretation): That is it, Mr. Barnabas?
Mr. Barnabas (interpretation): Yes.
I thank the minister and his officials for coming again today.
I just wanted to get back to what I was on yesterday with the list of committees with Recovery Business Plans in place.
I think the minister indicated that there were currently six communities.
I wonder if the minister could, for the record, tell us what those six communities are.
The six communities in question in the Deficit Recovery Plans are as follows:
Clyde River;
Hall Beach;
Taloyoak;
Kugaaruk;
Kugluktuk and;
Chairman (interpretation): Anything else, Mr. Peterson?
Mr. Peterson: I thank the minister for that information.
Could the minister give us an indication of how serious their financial difficulties are in terms of their deficits and receivables, that sort of stuff?
I must apologize to my colleague; I don’t have those figures with us here today, but I will commit to reviewing it with my colleague.
Could the minister tell us how long his officials estimate that those six communities will be in the deficit recovery situation?
I must apologize again; I know they vary in the period that have been set for them, and also with the additional challenge of some hamlets having found it more difficult to stick with the plan in means of recovery time.
If you would allow me, Mr. Chairman, I can get my Deputy Minister to speak more on this matter with the question.
Chairman: Please proceed, Mr. Rich.
Communities such as Clyde River, Hall Beach, Taloyoak, and Kugaaruk have actually fully implemented the Recovery Plan and are well on the way to recovery.
In Kugluktuk, we have been working with the supervisor that was appointed in that community.
The last financial information that we had from the community was that they were already making substantial progress in that.
They have a fairly substantial deficit, but they are working quite readily on it.
Probably one of communities with the largest challenge and one of the largest deficits was Qikiqtarjuaq.
They have made substantial progress now in the second half of their first year in the Recovery Plan, and are now starting to turn things around quite substantially.
Thank you, Mr. Rich for that information.
Could you tell us what type of measures the hamlets have to put in place to have a Recovery Plan and start to provide benefits to them?
Is it layoffs to personnel or cutbacks from programs and services?
Are there any drastic measures that have to be implemented to get them to turn around in a specified recovery period of time?
I guess the biggest determining factor is in consultation with the Council and which programs and services they review to help them with their deficit recovery.
So, again, it will defer from one year’s budget to the next, but it is in close consultation with the council that those things are looked at and determined.
I was trying to get at the fact that there’s some hard difficult decisions that have to be made.
I wondered when the minister probably gets into financial difficulties, I think depending on how serious they are, there are layoffs that affects everybody.
One job in a small community is probably $40,000 in economic value.
The multiplier effect is two to three times.
It’s quite serious, then, if their reserves are depleted.
It seems to be a recurring problem every year.
I mentioned this yesterday.
Some years there’s a dozen, some years more, some years is less, but it just seems to be a constant problem.
I am wondering if the department could comment on how they can reassure the House and the general public and the Mayors and Councilors who are, to the most part, volunteers.
They have their regular day jobs.
It’s very difficult to run a municipality, particularly when you are limited, you don’t have the benefit if we are not there raising taxes and that sort of stuff.
It’s not easy these days.
So I am wondering if the department has considered the problems over the last five years with the hamlets running into deficits and putting in some sort of mechanisms and plans that municipalities can use to identify the problems that they are having before they become big problems?
I guess the biggest tool that we are becoming more dependent on is the monitoring and evaluation process for the situation that each municipality may be in.
I am just going back to one of his earlier comments; yes there are some very difficult decisions being made through this process.
As my colleague mentioned, there are lay-offs, or cutting of hours for certain employees.
Receivables are also a large issue and cutting expenses.
This is work that happens with the municipalities but there definitely are some tough decisions being made through this process at the community level.
I would like to thank the Minister for that comment.
One of my former SAOs when I was Mayor used to tell me that when I was asking for financial information, he would always tell me that the buck stops at him, at the SAO.
I used to debate that and say no the buck stops with the Mayor and Council.
I think there is some confusion there between the roles of the SAO and financial administration officials and councils.
One of the things I learned when I was a Mayor was the municipal accounting package was a very complicated beast and would generate 30 or 40 page financial statements every two week when we met.
As we all know, to be a politician in charge of a $1 billion government, or almost a $1 billion financial accountability and an ability to read financial statements is important, the same as it is at the hamlet level.
Easy to read and easy to interpret financial information I think is essential to everybody.
I’m wondering if your department has given any consideration to simplifying the financial accounting software that the hamlets use so that it’s easier to interpret and get a quick snapshot from looking at two to three pages instead of having to sit through 40 pages every 2 weeks.
Could the Minister comment on that?
Well the indicators from MTO that have been developed are also very important and usable tools for the Councils.
At the same time, Mr. Chairman, we are supplying simple templates for financial reporting to Councils.
With the tools we now have in place, like I said, I’m pretty confident we do now have more mechanisms in place to detect early before the municipalities get too far into trouble with debts.
I thank the Minister.
I’d like to go to page J-7, there is a comment up there on equalization.
It says municipal taxing authorities, right in your business plan, page J-16, priorities for 2005/2006; develop the framework for the transition of hamlets to municipal taxing authorities.
Three or four years ago, I read an RFP in one of the newspapers where they were seeking a consultant to help them develop the framework for a municipal taxing authority.
They were going to look to Rankin Inlet and Cambridge Bay at the time.
I remember contacting one of your Assistant Deputy Ministers at the time to discuss and he was going to get back to me.
It seems to have dropped off the face of the earth until I read this in your Business Plan.
Perhaps you could give us some clarification on what the department is planning in terms of municipal taxing authorities for Nunavut to have hamlets already.
This has risen a number of times over the last couple of years.
When we have been discussing with some of the municipalities, the discussions have been more fact finding discussions.
I’m going to ask Mr. Rich to go over some of the issues surrounding the transition process to become a tax based City or municipality.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Minister. Please proceed, Mr. Rich.
As the minister said this is a fairly complex issue and as the member has stated that there have been several discussions over the past.
We have also taken into account that meetings that we have previously had with Standing Committees, where there has been support, but also cautions that have been expressed to the department about the move and how its done.
One of the things that were strongly expressed at the previous meeting, for instance, was the need to ensure that the community has strong public support if they are going to move in this direction.
In light of that we have worked fairly carefully on this file.
We have identified a number of key factors that need to be taken into consideration as the hamlet is looking at transferring from a non-tax based to a tax-based status.
Those include factors such as right of collections; the composition of the tax-base in the community; the establishment of the mill rates and how that would be done, and what that would mean; the population base; one of the things that we are looking at and I have been talking with our colleagues in the Northwest Territories, who have a little more experience directly with this recently, is what population base recommendations we should make; the knowledge base in terms of the training that the community staff should have, because it increases the training requirements for staff quite a bit, and finally; the mechanisms for public consultations to ensure, as I mentioned, that there is broad public support for it.
The latest thing that we have done is have some direct consultations with the Northwest Territories that have been developing their process over the last two or three years, as they have more aggressively moved in this direction. We want to see both the successes that they have had, and the challenges that they have had and then work with one or two communities to establish a process here in Nunavut.
Thank you, Mr. Rich.
I take it though that no municipality will have the MTA forced on them.
It will be at their request as they are ready, as you mentioned in your Business Plan.
On the same page J-7.
The Nunavut Association of Municipalities, I see that their budget has remained stable at $135,000.
Have there been any requests for an increase to their budget?
No, there have been no requests for increases under this funding for the Association of Municipalities.
I anticipate that there is going to be a lot more work for Nunavut Association of Municipalities, for the Nunavut Association of Municipalities President, in particular if he is going to go with you to Ottawa and participate on the Advisory Committee.
Would your department be covering his costs to participate?
Yes, I was just led to believe that we will be covering those expenses and I am sure that they will be expenses that they will be able to cover during the process, but we will be assisting them with the consultation process.
I mentioned this yesterday that Nunavut Association of Municipalities had a number of resolutions from the last AGM.
I actually tabled them in the House last May.
Has the department or the Government of Nunavut formally responded to any of those resolutions?
I have been led to believe no, not at this time.
Does the Government of Nunavut plan to formally respond before Nunavut Association of Municipalities’ next AGM?
Yes, we will definitely be responding to them before their next AGM.
Over on page G-8, the Water and Sewage Services Block Funding.
The minister mentioned in his opening comments yesterday that they will be making changes for the increased flexibility and expenditure loss within the program to maximize communities’ abilities to measure individual programs.
I actually had a Written Question in the last sitting in December.
I asked the minister what the status was.
The response was that you said you would be bringing forward recommendations in on how to improve the subsidy program.
In response I asked him when there would be tabling in the House, he said will be available for winter session of the Legislature.
Can you tell the House when you will be tabling the results of your review of the Water and Sewage Subsidy Program?
My colleague is right that I would have liked to have tabled the recommendations during the session.
However, because the work is ongoing, I am hoping that the group will finalize its recommendations in April of 2005.
So, Mr. Chairman, I was not able to get the final for tabling into the House at this time.
Mr. Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you Mr. Minister.
On page J-16 of your business plan on your priorities for 2005-06 you mentioned implement a more simplified and improved Water and Sewage Subsidy Program.
A pilot project in three communities had led me to think that you had completed your review.
Your recommendations had come forward.
Could you comment on which of the three communities that you mentioned will take part in this final project?
Just to clarify, Mr. Chairman but the Business Plan is for 2005-06.
The review of the Water and Sewer subsidy is taking three places.