EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): I would like to return the Department of Education's budget, capital estimates at this time.
Chairperson (interpretation): I am sorry can you repeat your wish please. Mr. Nutarak.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): I would like to return to the Department of Education Capital Estimates.
The member would like to return to the capital estimates of the Department of Education.
The minister can go back to the witness table with your officials.
Not too many officials please, Mr. Minister.
Welcome Mr. Minister and your officials.
Can you please, I think we know your staff, but for the record introduce them again.
Hon. James Arvaluk: Thank you Mr. Chairman to my right is Robert Moody, Deputy Minister and to my left is Murray Horn Director of Corporate Services, Department of Education.
I do not presently have any opening comments and we can begin.
Chairperson (interpretation): General comments from the floor.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Chairman under the Department of Education's Capital Estimates I would like to return to page 9 - 6.
Page 9 - 6, I am sorry Corporate Services.
Chairperson (interpretation): The member wishes to go to 9 – 6.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): This was the last item that we deferred at this time so I would like to talk about this section of the Capital Estimates.
This morning the Minister of Finance stated that 920 thousand was allocated for a program.
I would like to talk about the 920 thousand that the minister mentioned.
I just wondered whether it is in this Corporate Services section of page 9 – 6.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, I was trying to ask the Minister of Finance.
He mentioned to us that he would be able to answer some questions we have.
I just wanted to find out from the Minister of Finance whether that 920 thousand is in this page 9 – 6.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: The detail is with the Department of Education.
I can tell you based on the discussions that have taken place, as the minister has outlined in the past, there's 395 thousand dollars for an enlarged gym expansion as part of the Education Department's budget that we're reviewing right now.
This morning the Finance Minister mentioned that 920 thousand dollars is allocated for the heritage centre.
Perhaps I misunderstood, there was a different answer I was thinking that 920 thousand dollars, in regards to the 920 thousand dollars I would like to ask the minister under page 9 – 6 if that budget is in there.
That 920 thousand dollars is…but the MLA from Cambridge Bay member made a member’s statement this morning.
Perhaps the Finance Minister was responding to the member Hunter Tootoo and that is why he mentioned the 920 thousand dollars.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): The High School in Cambridge Bay and the member for Cambridge Bay mentioned this morning under a member’s statement that 920 thousand dollars will be directed to the Heritage Centre.
I am just trying to ask a question whether it is in the Capital Budget under 9 – 6.
Is it included in this section.
As the member for Cambridge Bay, the member responded to the statement made by Mr. Tootoo. Perhaps if that Honourable Member Mr. Ng can clarify what his member’s statement was about.
We are dealing with the Capital estimates of Department of Education and maybe Mr. Ng can answer the question for Mr. Nutarak.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Nutarak are you going to ask another question.
Just to help the minister I believe the 920 thousand dollars that the honourable member from Cambridge Bay mentioned this morning related to the 395 thousand dollars for the larger gym and the 525 thousand dollars for the Heritage Centre in that project.
I think that the member from Pond Inlet was asking if any of those dollars are included in the project costs.
Hon. Kelvin Ng: I think Mr. Tootoo is correct and just to further clarify in the Department of Education Budget there is 395 thousand dollars only for the gym which is what we are reviewing right now.
There is the issue of 500 thousand dollars in CLEY's budget for the heritage and cultural centre, which isn't before us right now.
But when I spoke about that earlier this morning as a member Mr Chairman, I referred to the project budget report because it included all costs for that project within that summary.
Chairperson (interpretation): Is it clear now Mr. Nutarak.
We are under Department of Education branch summary.
Under Kitikmeot Region, detail of capital.
There's no total Kitikmeot Region, 10 million 803 thousand.
I'm sorry, under page 9 – 6 Capital Estimates, Department of Education we are under Capital Estimates, Department of Education 9 – 6.
Is everybody on that page.
I am sorry I was just reading under Kitikmeot Region.
Total Kitikmeot Region, 10 million 803 thousand. Agreed
Chairperson (interpretation): Against.
Total buildings and works, 15 million 325 thousand.
Mr. Puqiqnak (interpretation): Are we under, I cannot find where we are at, Peter and I cannot find 2000 – 2001 Capital Estimates.
Chairperson (interpretation): It is under 2000 – 2001 Capital Estimates.
Did you get it.
I am sorry but we are slowing down.
Under total building and works, 15 million 325 thousand.
Total Capital Expenditures, 15 million 325 thousand.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the minister if he has at all any response to the recommendations that were made by the Standing Committee or by the regular members during the committee of the whole on this matter.
My responses are already in the Hansard for all these recommendations.
Chairperson (interpretation): If we're going to be voting on these figures we have to record our votes I think that would be better if you don't respond right away.
Total Capital Expenditures, 15million 325 thousand.
Going back to the capital.
Going to the other estimates, Main Estimates, 2000 – 2001 Estimates 9 – 7.
Page number 9 – 7 under the Main Estimates.
Corporate Services, branch summary.
Total Capital, 15 million 325 thousand.
Total Expenditures, 16 million 674 thousand.
We will then go back to 9.9 – 3 in the Main Estimates.
In the Capital does that mean that we agree to everything if we agree to 15 million 325 thousand.
Chairperson (interpretation): In the Capital Estimates we agreed to 15 million 325 thousand.
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): I believe that was a yes.
If we agree to that figure then that means everything is agreed to.
Chairperson (interpretation): Page 9 – 3.
Total Expenditures, 150 million 474 thousand.
Agreed as a whole.
I do not want to say thank you but I have to say thank you to the minister and his officials for being at the witness table.
I am sure we will see you again next year.
Hon. James Arvaluk (interpretation): Mr. Chairman I would like to thank you very much because you are not only a member but you are an excellent chairperson.
We also have Lorne Levy who is sitting in the gallery.
He will be our capital projects person, he use to work for the Divisional Board and he will be here to help you.
We also have Connie Brown who just came in to town not too long ago but was able to produce all this material because of the urgency of the issue.
Also Murray Horn who is in capital projects and he was overloaded for a while because of lack of staff and Robert Moody who helped him out at times.
He is also the Deputy Minister.
I would like to thank my staff who are very able and also the other members who are in Arviat.
We thank them all very much also the Members of the Legislative Assembly.
Chairperson (interpretation): We'll then go back to Government Services.
Ms. Thompson would you like to go to the witness table and also your officials.
Welcome Ms. Thompson and if you would introduce your officials. Ms. Thompson.
On my right is Ross Mrazek and on my left is the Director of Finance.
Yesterday we started this department with the 2000/2001 capital estimates and we were on page 6-6.
Page 6-5 should be 6-6 in the capital estimates.
We will go back to the capital estimates where we stopped.
Do you agree with the figures.
Abstentions. Opposed.
We will then move on to the estimates for 200/2001.
Page 6-3 or 6-4, Department of Public Works.
Directorate. Branch summary.
Directorate, operations and maintenance.
Total operations and maintenance, 4 million 317 thousand.
Chairperson (interpretation): I am told to use this format for voting and if you have to do so put up your hand.
Mr. Picco and Premier abstain because they are not listening.
Total expenditures, 4 million 317 thousand.
Public works 6-5, branch summary for technical services.
Operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, 5 million 449 thousand.
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): I'm sorry I came in late, which department are we dealing with.
Mr. Chairman, while we are dealing with this department she gave us a sheet on what would be going into the communities, maybe my question should be that we agreed with the department of education's figure and we also agreed to the architectural drawings.
My question, is that part of your responsibility to deal with the architectural designs of the schools.
Are you referring to the school in Clyde River.
Which architectural drawings are you referring to.
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): It is reference to the school addition drawings.
Is that in your department’s duties.
Hon. Manitok Thompson (interpretation): Yes, we are responsible for taking care of that matter.
We get the requests from the different departments and we do provide the services.
Chairperson (interpretation): I apologise 6-5 total expenditures for technical services, 5 million dollars 449 thousand dollars.
One abstention.
Branch summary of operations and maintenance total expenditures, 57 million 732 thousand.
Total expenditures 57 million 732 thousand.
Total expenditures 57 million 732 thousand dollars.
Page 6-7 Public Works.
Branch summary, Informatics.
Total operations and maintenance 10 million 89 thousand.
Total expenditures 10 million 89 thousand.
I just have a question for you Mr. Chairman.
During this committee of the whole can we be counted only while we sit at our seats during our vote or question.
Chairperson (interpretation): Yes, that is the procedure.
You have to be at your seat so you can be counted as your vote.
You cannot be counted if you are not at your seat.
Those against.
All against.
Continuing with item 6-8.
Public works, branch summary, decentralization.
Total operations and maintenance, 2 million 200 thousand.
Total expenditures, 2 million 200 thousand.
Moving on, Public Works, branch summary.
Petroleum Products Division, operations and maintenance.
Total operations and maintenance 7 million 700 thousand.
I am sorry zero.
Total capital, 7 million 700 thousand dollars.
Under petroleum products division before we agree I have a question.
I assume you have an analyst concerning the bad gas that needs to be removed from the gas tanks in our riding.
Should there be an emergency and there has to be a cleanup I assume it would be very expensive to do so because you can't just dump the oil you have to package the bad gas first properly and have it shipped out professionally and carefully.
I am just wondering, I do not see any numbers for shipping or removing parcels of bad gas.
What kind of contingency plans do you have in that case.
Chairperson (interpretation): Ms Thompson.
If that should happen and we need to do that I just want to remind you the 800 thousand litres is no longer that same amount.
It is 675 thousand litres as it is slowly evaporating and dissipating, or being used by four wheelers because it works fine for them but for the skidoo’s gasoline there is a problem with that.
Therefore, we have made some different gas available from a different tank where they can get re-supplied.
If we have to empty that gas tank, I do not know because we are still using it for vehicles and four wheelers.
Mr. Puqiqnak (interpretation): But I thought I was told that they emptied that tank already.
I am talking about that new one.
Apparently there was 100 thousand litres and it was emptied, and once it was emptied out they stopped using the particular gas tank for skidoos and four wheelers because they don't like that gasoline being used for that tank.
Currently it is not in use and they are using another oil supply.
If I misunderstood that it had been emptied, perhaps Mr. Mrazek could reiterate because he answered yesterday that according to his knowledge in the Kitikmeot this is what was happening.
I am sure that they are using that gasoline, in fact they are using it for long distance.
I am just wondering what the situation is.
I would like to see some emergency plans before we totally run out of that supply.
Hon. Manitok Thompson (interpretation): I can tell the member of the legislature later when we get the expertise we could quickly meet with the member and give him a briefing and make available that information.
Gasoline that is being used for skidoo’s has run out as far as I understand it, and if they are going to use it for long distance then they are going to need some re-supply and we are gong to have to talk about it.
We can decide what to do and then I can let the member of the legislature know what the plan is.
My fellow MLA was asking about the money in the main estimates.
Are you going to provide some funding for the re-supplying of gasoline tanks, and what he was trying to say is that if we approve as is, will this delete that option.
The gas tanks that I am talking about need to be worked on.
This particular item deals only with expansion.
They already have the big gas tanks in Uqsuqtuq, which were already cleaned out and they are already over there.
Back to total expenditures, 7 million 700 thousand.
Moving on, page 6-10, Public Works.
Petroleum Products revolving fund.
I am having trouble reading.
This is just an information item.
Under this item, there is a difference between 6044 and 46 and looking at these figures and at the bottom there is a deficit.
Can we have some explanation as to why there is a deficit under that item.
Hon. Manitok Thompson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Chairman, as you know the person from petroleum products is seated over here.
His name is Roy Green and he is seated over here.
Chairperson (interpretation): Are we agreed that the witness comes to the table.
Can you exchange seats.
Did you hear the question and if you did, please respond Mr. Green.
Okay the 1.7 million dollars deficit in the revolving fund that means with the existing cost components and with the current retail price, the sales are not high enough to cover the operating costs.
So this 1.7 million dollars would be part of the stabilisation which is part of the funding limit that we operate in.
If that is the situation then does that mean we are going to have a deficit of that amount.
Basically those figures are based on the last years re-supply costs.
So the bottom line in this is subject to the re-supply which commences in July 2000.
So if the price of crude continues to drop then our operating costs would go down accordingly.
Last year in the fiscal year 99/00 it was 39 million dollars now it is 44 million dollars.
Is that because the cost of gasoline has gone up quite a bit.
I just wanted clarification on that Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Green: It is correct.
The cost of fuel products went up on the average of 8 cents per litre.
So that is why you are seeing an increase of about 5 million dollars over last year.
But when you look at the 44 million dollars most of that is the bulk sales that we sell into Iqaluit.
What happens is that we buy the product for Iqaluit and then we sell it for the cost that we pay for it.
Sales have increased dramatically in Iqaluit and this is where the total sales have increased significantly from last year.
The retail price increased by 5 cents and that would increase your total sales.
Under this item I would like to get some more information.
Under 2000.
This summer in July there might be another increase as you stated, I was just wondering how much does the petroleum products increase yearly.
The petroleum products cost depends on what we can buy it for on the world market.
All I can tell you is that when we did an evaluation two weeks ago the price of fuel was up around 6 cents a litre higher then what we paid for it last year.
Having said that the price of crude has dropped about 6 cents since the prices in January and February because the price of crude has been gradually dropping.
So to be quite honest with you I have no idea what the price of crude will be when we do buy it in June of this year.
Mr. Green mentioned that it would be decreasing in price a little bit so for that reason will the petroleum products be cheaper in the communities.
If the price of crude and our operating cost drops to the extent that we could forecast a profit, indeed we would be looking at a decrease for fuel in the retail prices.
The retail prices would depend on what we buy it for in the world markets.
So if we are looking at substantial savings by this summer then we could see a reduction in the price passed along but at this time there are no guarantees.
If that is the way it is going to be, if petroleum products will be decreasing the communities cost should decrease as well.
I wonder why they predict that there is going to be a reduction in price.
Mr. Green: Thank you Mr. Chairperson.
At this point in time the reason why we are looking at a decrease so far is because some of the OPEC countries are going to be increasing the amount of their production.
When petroleum products buys it there is no lag time by the time the prices come down.
So as soon as the petroleum products prices start to go down in price then we benefit immediately.
So right now there has been some increased production, which would force down the price of crude.
At this point of time we are dealing with a lot of uncertainty and a lot of speculation.
Mr. Iqaqrialu (interpretation): Perhaps I would like to get some more clarification.
Say in which part of the country do you buy the petroleum products from.
Mr Green: Thank you Mr. Chairman.
We buy it from oil refineries in Texas.
You mentioned early that you buy from various places.
Is Texas the only place they buy it from so far.
Mr. Green: For the most part we buy the majority of the re-supply from overseas markets and Texas.
We buy some fuel from Shell Canada in Alberta but only a limited amount.
The majority we buy from the oil refineries in the U.S. market.
I would like to get some clarification on the revolving fund.
Right across Nunavut there is going to be a few projects on the capacity of each settlement.
Something in this area, let say for example there are so many projects done before the end of the year is it in here too.
Chairperson: Ms. Thompson or Mr. Green.
Hon. Manitok Thompson: Yes, Itsivauta.
Mr. Havioyak: Thank you Mr. Chairman, I recall a few years back in Kugluktuk they didn't have a space for storing additional petroleum and they had to barge it in the mouth of the river.
Is that how it is going to be done again during this fiscal year.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr Green.
Mr. Green: Mr. Chairman at this time I do not have the information and I will get it to the MLA as soon as we get a hold of it.
If that is okay Mr. Chairman.
Chairperson (interpretation): We are under 6-10.
Petroleum product fund.
Under the same item Mr. Iqaqrialu.
We do not have a quorum.
For that reason I feel if we are going to be agreeing or disagreeing on this item I think we have to have a quorum.
Regular members should be here.
Hon. Jack Anawak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
We are Members of the Legislative Assembly as long as we have a quorum we could continue.
Chairperson (interpretation): The member is right.
We will ring the bell and we will wait for a quorum.
Thank you Mr. Iqaqrialu for informing us about a lack of quorum.
Page 6-10 is just an information item.
Agreed. 6-11.
Public Works information item.
Public stores revolving fund.
I just want to get some clarification under public stores revolving fund.
I think they are talking about storage areas.
What is warehousing.
The government has assets or papers that we have to store such as computers have to be put in warehouses, such as government forms that belong to the departments and information items and pamphlets.
The things that are put in warehouses.
Chairperson (interpretation): 6-11.
All in favour. 6-12 Granular and program revolving fund.
Granular and program revolving fund.
Authorized limit Mr. Iqaqrialu.
In 1999-2000 there was 11 million 700 thousand.
Right now under the main estimates is only 3 million 704 thousand.
Exactly what do those figures mean.
I was trying to exchange our seating.
The 11 million 700 thousand is for the GNWT but with the Nunavut Government it is now 3 million 704 thousand.
I just wondered, that amount of over 3 million dollars, do you have any information as to how much we spent so far from 1999-2000.
These figures are the government’s revolving fund.
Granular material.
They are just talking about the granular materials in the government.
These are just for contractors' use.
Private contractors stockpiling granular material.
It is just for that purpose.
Chairperson (interpretation): 9-12 information.
Page 6-13, Public Works.
Detail of work performed on behalf of third parties.
The 900 thousand and the 600 thousand dollars under the 2000-2001 mains include the divisional health board for the Baffin area.
There is no funding allocated for the 2000-2001 main when there is money set aside for the Nunavut Arctic College and the divisional education boards for the Keewatin and Kitikmeot.
Are they under the Department of Public Works.
The Department of Public Works is now maintaining the divisional boards’ and the health boards’ assets and property.
We will have our finance person explain the response.
Mr. Irqittuq (interpretation): Mr. Galbraith.
Mr. Galbraith: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
This is what we call an outside arrangement with an agency that we would be doing work on behalf of for that particular agency and or board.
Then we would charge them back through an invoicing situation.
So this year the boards of health are no longer in existence.
Therefore all the maintenance will be done by Public Works and there will be no charge back situation to the Department of Health.
Under the divisional education boards they are going to be dissolved but you have set aside 600 thousand dollars for the 2000-2001 estimates.
It became quite clear the health boards were going to be dissolved and because of that the government now owns the assets and maintains their buildings and facilities.
So that is why we have nothing slotted down for the divisional health boards but we are still providing services for the divisional education boards. These are estimates of what might still be owing by our department.
I hope I am clear.
It is clear.
What is that 600 thousand going to be used for.
The Nunavut Arctic College, the Adult Education centres have pipelines, toilets, lighting, and other stuff that needs maintenance.
We are a service provider and we provide maintenance services to their facilities.
That is what it is used for.
They do not do their own maintenance.
Public Works provide services and maintenance for government facilities.
We are there to provide services and maintenance.
For example the Hamlets do the same thing.
They provide services for their own facilities and if there has to be work done on the Arctic College buildings we maintain them and we set aside money for their maintenance.
They are part of the government assets and facilities.
Chairperson (interpretation): Page 6-13 information item.
Looking at the different pages.
You have set them aside in regions.
Baffin, Kitikmeot and the Keewatin.
Is that how you came up with the figures.
This 7 million in the top there is 3 million, 2 million, 2 million.
They are distributed according to the number of staff in the regions.
That is including their salaries and so on.
Chairperson (interpretation): Anything else.
The Minister of Health will have to take part because I have a very bad cold. 6-14 information item.
We will then go back to 6-3.
Program summary.
Detail of expenditures.
Total operations & maintenance 79 million 787 thousand.
Chairperson (interpretation): Total capital 7 million 700 thousand.