EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
We have also pulled together some machines that were used in other sections of the department and put them under one section so that we are covering the lease cost for those machines through just one section.
On the same topic, I will pose my last question.
I thank you for that and the comprehensible response.
But it seems like this is just geared towards Iqaluit at the headquarters level, is nothing going to be directed to the community level?
Yes, it is just for the headquarters operation and maintenance requirements and also the regional headquarters and the regions have separate funding for their operation and maintenance funding.
My colleagues here have already asked the questions that I wanted to ask, so I will refrain at this time.
Total Operations and Maintenance, $2 million, 98, do you agree?
I was using my bifocals so I could not see that far.
I apologize, Mr. Tootoo.
Mr. Tootoo: It is okay, Mr. Chairman.
It is a good thing to have a good clerk up there with you, someone who does not need bifocals yet.
Mr. Chairman, 9-8 is Corporate Services and where I think I asked last week when we finished off, if that was the division that gave out the school budgets to the schools.
I know that was something of a concern, and it was raised in this House in the past of the timeliness of getting that information out to the schools.
I would like to ask the Minister if any steps have been taken to remedy that problem so that the schools get their budgets in a timely manner.
While I am glad to report that there have been some considerable improvements made to how and when we finance the District Education Authority or when we work out the financing for the District Education Authority.
And as a result, this year by June, is when we should have the budgets for the District Education Authority, the schools and the communities.
Mr. Chairman, does that give the schools enough time prior to finishing school and everyone knows that most of the teachers aren’t in schools after school is over.
I do not know why, I’d want a break too if I was there all year.
But to be able to do their ordering and stuff like that that they need for the previous year, in order to get it on the boat in time for that next fall.
Yes, before school is out, for example, we’ll probably know how many teachers will be required and they also know how much to order because they know that they will be spending approximately about the same amount as the last year.
So, they use the last year’s expenditures to order for the next fiscal year.
If there’s an increase on the material that they need to order, they could use some of the funds that they did not use from the previous year.
Mr. Chairman, there’s an increase in compensation and benefits there and I’m wondering if that’s just an increase due to the collective agreement negotiations or whether there’s been an increase in PYs in that division.
The increase for compensation and benefits, I’m sorry Mr. Chairman, the increase, the financial comptroller in Arviat and also within our department, we had staff assistants so therefore there’s a slight increase. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman, is that an increase of two PYs that the Minister had indicated or is it just one.
Yes, the two PYs are separate from each other.
Are there two new PYs to that division?
If that’s the case, then I’m just wondering, in their business plan, in appendix a, it says there’s an increase of one.
So, I’m just wondering what the correct number is there.
With their PY, it is a casual, and it’s an assistant for one of the staff and that assistant will be a on a casual basis.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, can the Minister indicate what position that casual is going to be an assistant for and how long do they anticipate keeping someone on casual.
You think if you have someone put in there for a year, why were they put on a term position or hired indeterminate rather than casual.
The assistant, if I’m correct, from the line item of $20 thousand dollars, for the assistant, to respond to your question, perhaps I’ll my Deputy Minister to respond on how it came about and what the objective is.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Deputy Minister Rich.
The particular casual position is working in the Human Resources section of Corporate Services and in particular, looking at the work we are doing to prepare all the documentation related to things like the Inuit employment plan.
Also, all of the employment records in the department, there is a lot of paper work to do as you can imagine.
She’s working on that.
It would be anticipated that work would take in the four to six month range period of time.
We’ve recently increased the way we’ve tried to offer Human Resources services across the department and this provides quite a bit of assistance to our Human Resources manager.
I’m certain people at Human Resources would agree with the amount of work that has to go on there.
You mentioned that the position increases for a financial comptroller; didn’t the department have a financial comptroller in their organizational chart before that?
How come they need to, all of a sudden, have a financial comptroller?
You would think that was something that would have been there right from the beginning.
This position is to be based in Arviat and if it is okay with you Mr. Chairman, I would like to have my Deputy Minister respond to that question.
The position is actually a finance officer position in Arviat and the position works with corporate services because of the number of staff that we have in the Arviat office, the curriculum and school services staff, there, the adult education, FANS and other staff, there are a lot of financial operations.
We’ve been operating at times with a casual person there.
It became obvious that, to provide appropriate and adequate support to that office, they needed a full-time dedicated finance officer.
So that’s the position that’s been approved for there.
Mr. Chairman, given that that was the headquarter location already, are you saying that there was never a finance officer to go along with that office before?
And, if that was the case, where was all that documentation being processed prior to the finance officer in Arviat?
Well, at this time, the individual’s position was at the headquarters and this new finance officer position will be responsible for doing the duties and responsibilities in Arviat.
Is the headquarters where it used to be and now moving to Arviat?
Is this what the Minister is indicating or what?
I’m not sure as he’s confusing me with his response.
I just wonder if he can clarify if it’s yet another decentralized position out of Iqaluit.
No, to avoid confusion to the members, the service that was being provided by the headquarters staff is now being done by the position in Arviat.
So, we’re not taking any position away from Iqaluit.
It’s just a service that was necessary which if you look at the location of the offices and the field of work, the immediate work that is required, we felt that it was best to put in a position in Arviat, rather than depending on the headquarters staff here in Iqaluit.
Corporate Services, 9-8, page 9-8, Department of Education, Branch Summary, Corporate Services, total Operations and Maintenance, $2 million 98. Agreed?
Page 9-8. 9-10. 9-10, Mr. Anawak.
I would like further clarification or maybe I rushed it, but are these contributions for the public or just for the employees?
These are accessed by employees in income support but there’s a description further back.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Minister, if you would introduce your official.
On my right, we have Sandy Tieman who is our coordinator for contributions.
Just for further clarification, the travel and transportation is slightly smaller than last years.
There’s a slight decrease for the travel and transportation of $11 thousand because we’ve put the amount in the other sections.
Mr. Alakannuark (interpretation): Does that mean you’re going to be cutting down on travel and transportation?
I’m not saying there’s going to be a decrease in the travel.
This travel budget is for the income support staff.
We’re not going to be telling our staff that there’s going to be a decrease but what we’re doing is decreasing the amount so that we can put it to other expenses in the department.
We were on 9-10.
This is for clarification.
I know that there is an agreement or a contract with the Hamlets for the positions have been cancelled as Income Support workers.
Is it in this page first of all?
To his question, no they are not here.
Chairperson (interpretation): That is it?
That is it, Mr. Havioyak?
9-10, Mr. Nutarak.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): In regards to the Income Support, is this budget just for the staff or does it include anything else?
Is it just for the offices located in Pangnirtung, Rankin Inlet and Cambridge Bay?
These are for the operations of the Headquarters Divisions.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): Under the Compensation and Benefits, is this increase to keep in part with the increased cost of living or have you increased the number of positions in this Department?
There is approximately $12 thousand for the Compensation and $75 thousand for a PY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
On that position that has been increased again another Division has increased PY. What is that PY, what is the position that is being added?
Hon. Peter Kilabuk: It is the Case Management Clerk position.
I put two questions in one here.
One is that where would that be located or I imagined it here in Iqaluit with that for the headquarters is and what is the rationale, is this forced growth issue that they need the extra Case Management Clerk?
I will have, if it is okay with you, I will have Ms. Tieman respond to your question.
Please welcome, Ms. Tieman.
Ms. Tieman: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Case Management Clerk position was established in the headquarters office to assist with the financial records that we have to deal with in income support.
We also issue T5 slips for all income support clients across Nunavut which amount to approximately five thousand records that we have to do by hand.
The case management clerk also monitors all the statutory or legal appointments that go through our offices when an income support worker is appointed.
We have to go through the Department of Justice and the Department of Finance to make sure that everything is legal.
This person has got a lot of work to do who ever it is.
Is that again, is it an increase due to a forced growth issue or is it just something that was overlooked in the original plans and now needed to be added in because it was over looked?
Chairperson (interpretation): Where are we?
I guess you can say that it is a result of both matters.
One that it may have, well, in the start the position was not there but also because the work load that has increased, we have found it necessary to create this position because now it’s very evident due to the workload increase and this position will be handling it.
There are no shortages of places where forced growth has lead to the need for more staff.
That’s too bad it’s in income support.
Another question I have directly relates to income support, is this the division that does all the overall policy development and stuff like that for income support.
Are those policies and the programs that they do, are they done strictly within the headquarters within Nunavut or are there some things that we have to have in there as a result to any ties from the Federal Government into the funding?
Using it as an example, we have to work with the Federal Government’s HRDC but I’ll have Ms. Tieman provide more details in that respect.
Chairperson (interpretation): Ms. Tieman.
In the income support division in headquarters, we do the policies and procedures for Nunavut.
We work very closely with our directors in the three regions and have close ties with HRDC and Canada Customs and Revenue Agency because of the T5 reporting that must be done on reportable benefits in Nunavut.
We have to work very closely with Canada Customs.
Mr. Tootoo: If they can try and make it more specific, then I can appreciate the response.
Are there any rules, policies, procedures, criteria or anything like that that we have to use that the Federal Government requires.
Basically, that is where a lot of the funding comes from for the programs, that they say we have to use this criteria or rules or are we totally on our own to come up with those?
Ms. Tieman.
As in all jurisdictions across the country, we work very closely with Revenue Canada and with HRDC but we are able to come up with our own policies and procedures within Nunavut.
So, we’re quite fortunate in that respect. The only things that we have to adhere to in the Income Support Program are the deadline for filing of T5s with the February 28 deadline that all jurisdictions must meet.
Basically we are block funded and we can set our own rules and guidelines and policies as to who can qualify and how much they get.
Whether rent is included and things like that.
Is that what they are indicating?
Hon. Peter Kilabuk: Yes, that is the case. Thank you.
Mr. Tootoo: On that, and I know that there was a review done on Income Support, but what is the eligibility or the type of things that are covered under the Program?
Say if someone needed to find a place to live, and they do not have any money for rent or a down payment, if those types of things would be able to be covered or not, then basically we can set that criteria.
And whether it should be or should not be eligible?
Hon. Peter Kilabuk: Yes, Mr. Chairman.
Were those types of things looked at in the review of Income Support?
And if so, what types of conclusions did they come up with?
Mr. Minister, make it brief please.
What kind of conclusions is the other half of that question?
I will get Ms. Teiman to explain the details in that regard.
Can you please repeat?
I will have Ms. Teiman explain the details in that regard.
Chairperson (interpretation): Ms. Teiman.
Ms. Teiman: The Income Support Policy Review that was done a couple of years ago covered several different areas.
When we went through it not a lot of people asked us to make changes to regulations as they stand.
We carried over the Act and the regulations from the GNWT.
For the most part, people indicated that they were satisfied with what we had.
We have gone through and made several changes like the Income Exemption Level, because people in Nunavut told us that the Income Exemption Levels were too low so we increased those.
We have simplified the contracts, the Community Contracts that we have for the Hamlets.
We have done a major campaign on the information kits that you have seen in the House, to let people know in Nunavut what the program is about, and what it can do for them if they are on income support.
That was one of the biggest areas that people told us.
People do not understand what the program is about, and so those are some of the things that we have done.
The specifics to housing, and those types of things, the majority of those items are already covered in the regulations.
We have public housing, we have regulations for rental agreements, we have regulations that cover mortgages.
So most everything is covered in the regulations as they stand.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Ms. Tieman.
Mr. Chairman, I know that the Minister and his staff are aware that I used to work for housing and that I was a member of the Housing Task Force and one of the things, and Ms. Tieman mentioned the social housing on there, we all know that Income Support recipients only pay $32 a month for their rent and other utilities and things like that are covered off on there.
One of the problems that we face all throughout the territory and people in social housing, when they go to work, their rent goes up; anything up from $32, anything up from that is a percentage of their income.
Right now, I think it is 21% across the board pretty much that people pay of their income is a huge increase from $32.
Is there was any talk of on a recipients stub on their monthly payments or whatever it is that they get as a way of a education program for them so that they see the true costs for them and the housing is not $32 and what the utilities are and things like that where they could be shown on a stub just saying like a pay check.
This would have been your gross pay and these are your deductions and this is what you end up with based on the regulations and the policies that are in place.
At least give people an idea of the actual cost to income support or the Government other than the cost that they see and many of the costs that they do not see.
I am just wondering if that is something that has been passed around or talked about or is that about implementing.
Yes, that would be preferable for people who are recipients to have a better idea of what the actual costs are and yes, we can make considerations to include that information to recipients.
And perhaps, we can do an information campaign for social assistance recipients and we can certainly do a press release to get the information out.
However, the implications on Housing Corporations regarding this, they are also going to come up with a press release regarding this impact on social assistance recipients.
Tootoo.
I will just ask the Minister if this is something that they would look at doing if they have the technology to be able to set something like that up on a regular basis so that recipients’ monthly checks will have rent, what it would be, utilities, water and sewer and garbage, what everyone else gets.
And with LHO’s, they get dinged within the communities for that, basically paid by the Government.
Just so that, you know, the educational tool for people so that they have a better understanding of the system, which is one of the things that the task force recommended doing for housing.
But I think it is also something that is important to come from income support if you look at, you know, one of the goals is the time to help individuals to become more self reliant, they realize what they have to work with or what they need, then it gives them a more realistic picture of what they have to do to try and get there instead of, I go to work and all of a sudden I’m paying five hundred dollars a month for rent instead of 32 dollars, it’s not really worth it for me to do that.
If that could be done at the LHO level, they probably have it by unit number where that information could be gathered.
But is that something that income support has the capacity of integrating into their system?
Hon. Peter Kilabuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation end): Mr. Chairman, we can most definitely assign someone to look at how we can best deliver the information on a more regular basis to our income support recipients.
As to the cost comparisons of what subsidy they get and the actual cost of funding a House, again Mr. Chairman, that is something that we would assign Steven to do but also to look at the best practices to make sure that this is a cost effective campaign.
Regarding the comments made by the Member for Iqaluit Centre, I’m disappointed with his comments.
Regarding social assistance recipients, a lot of people like that do not have any choice.
It’s really not by choice that people go on welfare.
They have no other means to support themselves and they have nothing else to turn to.
The majority of the recipients have no other means.
This is how much you’re costing the government because you’re on income support and when too many people think that they are overpaid, but they have no other options but social assistance.
Are we going to make them feel belittled because they’re receiving income support?
When people apply for income support, that’s their last resort because they have no other means of looking after their meals for the month.
It is because I cannot support myself in any other manner that I would go to social assistance.
(interpretation end) I don’t think we want to try and make the people who cannot afford it, who get social assistance feel guilty about accepting that social assistance cheque.
Chairperson (interpretation): I don’t hear a question in there.
Was that a comment or just a question asked?
Okay, going back to my list. Thank you, Mr. Anawak.
I’d like to welcome the people at the witness table as I was not here at the beginning.
I’ve worked with Ms. Tieman for many years so welcome to the Assembly.
They probably never thought that I’d be in here in 1984.
My question is regarding the income support program and I will ask my question in English.
(interpretation end) Mr. Chairman, the appeal process, I know it used to be a problem when you appealed a decision that was made by the income support worker or social worker at the time.
When the client appealed it, it was the person that did the form, the social worker or the income support person who had to hear the appeal so it didn’t make any sense.
Maybe, the Minister can explain what the process is today that is working in the communities.
The criteria for the Appeals Board, we cannot answer.
Briefly, just so I can explain better, the Appeals Board are to be very objective and fair and follow the set guidelines for such an appeal and they will be as objective as possible in administering the income support programs in Nunavut.
They will be fair and understand all of the set criteria and guidelines for the program.
And included in that, as part of their responsibilities is also to look into, to see if they are carrying their responsibilities properly.
They can also set their own guidelines and recommend changes to guidelines, they can reject, approve or change an appeal, they can make recommendations to approve or reject the appeals coming forth and they can also set amounts of how much income support will be provided.
There was a question regarding the Appeals Board.
I would like to remind people, Mr. Chairman, we have a list of names for people that want to be on the Appeals Boards in the communities, but I do not have them in front of me.
I was not asking about the Appeal Process, I was more asking, what is in place now to hear appeal matters.
Is there a Community Appeals Committee is there a Nunavut Appeal Board?
Maybe the question is a little bit clearer.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Minister Kilabuk.
I am sorry if I misunderstood her question, but it was just part of her question.
This Appeals Board is Nunavut-wide.
So, if the Appeal Board is in Nunavut, probably based here or maybe I do not know out of the communities.
How long would it take for that board to hear the case?
I am picturing meantime, that person who was denied of social income support did not get anything and how long would it take for the board to have to sit to hear the appeal?
Ms. Williams is correct when she states that it is rather a confusing process.
We have had difficulties across Nunavut in getting Appeal Committees set up in the communities.
The process is usually run in tandem with the Municipal Elections and we ask that the Hamlet all elect an Appeal Committee at that point in time and then the Minister will approve or reject the names that are put forward.
Many of our communities in Nunavut have not done that to date.
So, what we have done, according to the regulations, is where there is no Appeal Committee in place, we have an administrative review group set up in every Region in Nunavut.
The Director of Career and Early Childhood Services conducts the initial review with Members that she appoints to sit with her at the three members and keep in mind that, we have the obligation to issue them assistance until their appeal is heard so they do not go without funds.
We are in the process of establishing Appeal Board that is the next level up.
If there is no Appeal Committee established in a community, then we move right to the Appeal Board.
We hope to have that structure in place by April.
One more last question on that matter, Mr. Chairman.
I am hoping that all the appeal forms, everything is in Inuktitut now, because most of the people who are going to become an Appeal Committee in the communities cannot read.