EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Since the Minister is in the end stages of reviewing the Act, the Nunavut communities are expecting program and services for disabled people.
We are expecting some funding for disabled people so we can provide services in the schools.
Chairperson Thank you Mr. Puqiqnak.
Yes, I agree with the member.
We have in the budget in Education a section for people with handicaps.
But I would like to say to Mr. Puqiqnak in this year we spent more money for grades 9 to grade 12 because they are increasing in numbers.
If you had 20 students we would have one teacher, that is what we are trying to retain.
We also would like to have Inuktitut curriculum and we have a development of the Inuktitut curriculum.
We have 400 thousand allocated for that purpose.
We also are helping in conjunction with the Department of Health and Social Services we are working with them in the communities to be able to go to communities and we have allocated 1.5 million dollars for that purpose.
I think there is 1.2 million dollars allocated for teachers and we are doing research on development of an Inuktitut curriculum for that purpose we also have some funding for that as well.
We had money allocated for a project in Arviat.
I think they are going to have 67 thousand dollars allocated for that purpose.
There is about 94 thousand as well too for the curriculum development.
We also have the 120 thousand dollars for other purposes to due a study of the curriculum.
Just to review whether the curriculum is put incorrectly and that is about 3 thousand dollars.
As well, we have development of tapes and other materials.
We have allocated money for that as well.
For this fiscal year we have planned to do these as soon as the budget is approved.
I am trying to say to the member that we are not going to try to follow the GNWT’s way.
So that is what we are trying to put into the Nunavut.
We want to do this as soon as we can but at times we can not really get going right away because we need the staff to do this.
If you are going to be talking about the money the figure, please let us know exactly where we are.
At what page so this way we will know where exactly where we are at.
Cause we are going to go right to the financial figures later.
I understand what the Minister is saying.
I believe we are all planning for better things after one year of being a Nunavut Government.
I believe we are all going to do our best.
When we had the GNWT government there were some disabled people going to school in Alberta and British Columbia.
But what I would like to see there is a lot of people in the Nunavut region that have disabled people and there should be special services of those disabled people so they can have a good education for them.
I am sure Nunavut can provide services for the disabled people and they can provide teachers as well.
And I would recommend that there is such a program for those disabled people and I am sure the people of Nunavut would like to see the parents of the disabled would like to see special services like that for those disabled children.
When the students finish their grade 12 they have to go to another community or a southern institution to go to college and university training.
Say for instance a disabled child has retained grade 12 do they also go for further education.
I just wanted to find out if you have a program where by the disabled people get to go to further education.
Is that in your study as well.
Maybe if we can have a direct question to the Minister.
I think I heard two questions.
The first question is that in regards to disabled children should be provided for services.
After they finish grade 12 do they go to further their education and they get some assistance to have further education in a southern institution.
Also, when the disabled children that finish grade 12. He wanted to get more services for them.
Are those what the questions were.
Mr. Puqiqnak can you clarify your questions.
For example if I was deaf and if I am physically handicapped I would like to see services in the school in grade 6,7 or 8 a place where I can retain my education because I am physically disabled.
Say for instance if a person was deaf mute in a community or blind person in the community they should be able to teach the teacher to teach those handicapped students there.
I just wanted to find out there is such a thing that the department of Education is looking at.
What I am saying is I want to be able to get special services or education institution for those kind of the people that are blind or deaf or physically handicapped.
Is that in your plans.
That is what my question is.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Puqiqnak., maybe if we can ask one question at a time.
I think that would be a lot faster.
But I will let the Minister respond.
We believe that we should be able to help the children in their home.
If they want to be taught in their home community.
We use to send students after they finished their education in their community into another community if they have to further their education.
If the community did not have that grade in the community.
As for those people that are physically handicapped we would like to provide educational services for them as well.
If there is no teacher for blind person or a hearing impaired, they can not take education.
Therefore, we would have to work with the Council for the Disabled.
I am not exactly what stage it is today on this.
I will get Ms. Arnaquq to respond.
Ms. Arnaquq if you can further respond to that question.
There are three regional offices in each region and they all have divisional education councils and they all have special needs teachers.
If they have an individual that is blind that is living in the Baffin region they would bring a person that specialises in teaching to do sign language to a person that is deaf, to teach the teachers and parents sign language.
It is a lot better for the students to be taught in their own community and to teach the parents and the teacher the sign languages for a deaf person.
Because we used to send physically handicap students outside the community to teach them.
But now what we want to do is have more teachers to teach the special needs students can have their education in their own community.
Our staff in Arviat are doing research as to how we can get those services for those special needs students physically disabled, or blind or deaf.
They are going to do a review on what kind of services those students could be provided.
Say for instance the pre-school students.
There are many pre-school students that are in that condition.
They will do a research on how many of them there are.
In addition, how many teachers they will need for those special needs students.
And in that research material they would have provided how many need those kinds of services and this is being done with our staff in Arviat.
So this way we will have an up to date number of physically handicapped people that need to be taught.
I think one of his questions was that he would like to see an institution.
Are looking at an institution in Nunavut to teach those special needs students.
Hon. James Arvaluk (interpretation): We are not thinking about a school.
We are thinking about putting a place for them.
There are some mentally handicap students to Chesterfield Inlet.
But we do not have any plans to put a school in each region for those special children.
But what we are stressing is that we are trying to provide education in their homes but we have not put any plans to build a school.
Is that it.
My question will be brief.
In the communities the teacher or student teacher ratio.
I know that there are too many problems with too many children in one classroom.
What kind of plans do you have to improve the situation.
Like I indicated yesterday, we have touched upon this subject a little bit.
We are trying to have 22 to 1 ratio.
We are trying to keep students at the same academic level in one classroom.
Let us say in grade 6 if there are 20 students to 1 teacher.
Like in grade 6, if there were 40 students than we would try to split the amount.
Let say we would have 20 grade 6 students in each class.
If there are more than 20-25 students to 1 than the 4 or 5 students if they are capable going to higher grade than we will try and provide or put in them into higher grades.
So that the number of students will be equal in each classroom.
For instance if there were 17 students in grade 6 the number would remain the same.
Those are the kinds of things we are trying to deal with.
We are trying to average out the number of students in each classroom if it is possible.
We are trying to target 22 as an average number of students in one classroom.
If there are more than 20, lets say 40, if there are close to 40 students in one classroom than we will try to split them into two.
However we have been having difficulties and the reason being is that we do fund the schools depending on a number of students that will be enrolled.
So following that we give a lump sum of money for a year of operation.
Than the teacher or than it up to the Principal to divide the number of students to see how best to serve them in the classroom.
Yes I understand his response.
He indicated that he tries to average out the number of students in the classroom.
If that is the case than the communities would be better served.
Have they agreed to this kind of arrangement.
Hon. James Arvaluk (interpretation): I did not quite get his question.
If he can rephrase his question.
Mr. Alakannuark (interpretation): Thank you Mr. chairman.
My main question is I know we have overcrowding in classrooms.
Having said that if you are going to solve this particular problem than will that help the community as a whole.
Like will this kind of arrangement be better for the students and the teachers in the classrooms.
Chairperson (interpretation): I think you understand the question now.
Hon. James Arvaluk (interpretation): Thank you Mr. chairman.
We will be reviewing this and try to improve in areas where there is a big concern.
Like I indicated, we have 27 students in grade 6.
Also, there are a certain number of students in grade 7.
Then we try to divide the number of students into two classrooms.
But we will be studying this further.
For example, if there are 400 students in the school then we will fund the school depending on the number of students enrolled.
If we have to make any improvements in any area then we are quite open to discuss these with teachers or the principals.
If we do not have any discussion with the principal then we talk to the teachers.
I know Mr. Tootoo also asked a question about this earlier.
But I can not say at this point in time what kind of improvements we will make until we have the study completed.
I am hoping in the next budget session we will have everything in place.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Minister Mr. Tootoo.
Before I get in to my next question.
I just like to ask the Minister or staff if the are aware or know what the current drop out rate in Nunavut is.
Hon. James Arvaluk (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, I don't have information on hand, however I do know there is an improvement in that area and we will look into this further and when we do I will get back to the member.
Mr. Chairman, it is my understanding and the minister can correct me if I'm wrong, the information is that the rate is close to 85%.
I have some demographics here that I want to mention from the minister's departmental business plan.
It says that the birth rate in Nunavut is 2.5 times the Canadian norm and twice that of the Northwest Territories.
Thirty eight percent of the population of Nunavut is under 14 years of age and 56% of the population are under 25.
Thirty one percent of the population aged 15 and over have less than grade nine.
It is true as the minister said that young people are staying in school longer and reaching higher levels, but graduation rates for grade 12 and university are well below the national average.
Nunavut has the highest rate of unemployment in Canada.
Over 53% of the people in Nunavut with a grade less than 9 would like a job but can't get one.
In addition, Mr. Chairman, over 50% of the population of Nunavut receive income support and at some point in the year and overall income support costs and case loads are increasing by approximately 6% per year throughout Nunavut.
Mr. Chairman, in light of this type of information I think what I was getting at earlier, is why are we losing our kids in high school.
Unless we can solve that problem Mr. Chairman, these numbers are going to stay at this level and are not going to improve.
At this time while we are developing a new Education Act and looking at a made in Nunavut system, we have to find a way to address what the core problem is.
If we have a real high dropout rate for whatever reason, we need to know why that is.
I believe the minister indicated earlier that a lot of what he said was as a result of support from the parents and pride in the schools and the communities, but I mean, I don't know if that is all of it.
I think that is why the department should take a look at what is causing these numbers.
A real in-depth look at how we deliver our programs and services and ensure that we are doing that in a way that is most beneficial.
I will be the first to say that the system that we have is inherited from the Northwest Territories.
The system that was there before.
Maybe it is time that we have a real fundamental look at how the school system is run.
I don't know if that is part of the problem or not but unless something is done those numbers aren't going to change and this is a beginning.
If we don't fix them now then who knows when it will happen again.
I am not as pessimistic as the member is stating because there have been some improvements in the past, even including today.
It was because we know that it is not acceptable.
I think my deputy already stated that we are going to be doing that and we had a discussion on that several times before and we just did not have time right now amongst the other work that we have to do.
But we mentioned that in the fall.
District Education Councils, as the member is aware, and the Department of Education have been working very hard, because I demand that we need to make very fast, very strong progress in making the graduation success.
The social conditions of our communities in respect to the young people that the member is talking about are a very serious issue.
But, at the same time I am confident that with this continuing improvement, this trend that the people of Nunavut, in fact the whole society is stating to us, is expressing to us that, if you listen to the radio once in a while and the people on the phone in show, how do you feel since the April 1 anniversary has your pride increased or improved etc, they have been very positive.
I think I could be speaking on behalf of the government that people's attitude has completely improved since the Nunavut Government was created in 1999, April 1, 1999.
Education I don't think is an exception to that improvement.
It is just that we had a very bad start when the dropout rate influenced the young people and their parents, which occurred without the Government's control.
Maybe through poor planning, maybe the belief in democracy, in freedom, I don't know.
But we are determined to start looking into it this fall very aggressively because we also know and believe that if we start now and if we start looking at that now it will make a positive effect.
If we don't do anything about it now the member will agree with me, it will have a detrimental effect down the road.
So I agree with the member completely and I am committed to work with all the Nunavummiut, including the MLAs to start working towards the improvement of our success rate in the high schools.
Mr. Chairman, I would just ask that as part of that review that the minister and his department plan on doing, an in-depth review on how it runs its system itself, internally as well as the external factors that we alluded to earlier, that all relate to how children do in school.
As I stated that when the GNWT introduced the school system and the high school programs in the communities, the success rate has increased.
When we start hiring teachers from kindergarten to grade 3 and 6, the success rate in the elementary and the pride and the confidence of the students also improves.
So these are things that help, while it is not all, in the bigger picture all those things contribute for improvement and I am also looking at, for example, school management, how well are we staffed for principal school management.
I am interested in that because sometimes when it just does not work, it has a reciprocating effect with all the staff members, especially with the teachers and the students.
All that will be looked at how as a department we handle our schools, including staff and the relationship between the parents and ourselves for the benefit of the students.
Because the bottom line is how do we succeed with the students.
I look forward to seeing that, just going off to a different topic Mr. Chairman, I would just like to ask if the minister could tell us how the schools are funded.
I understand that it is all based on student population.
I wonder if you could explain how much funding a school gets per child and what that's all..how that's all broken down between schools.
Apparently it is very complicated, and very mechanical trying to use the formula that the Department of Education uses for that.
I would like to have Mr. Moody answer that question.
Mr. Moody: Nakurmiik, Mr. Chairman.
As the minister mentioned it is quite complicated and quite technical and what I would like to suggest through the minister and through the chair is that we provide the member, and in fact all members, with the detail on how it works at another date, but I would like to offer some brief comments today.
The basis of the formula is, as the member has suggested, a per dollar amount per student but then there are other parts to the formula.
For example there is so much for special needs, there is another separate funding for example, for school bussing that is available.
There is an allotment for the administration, it goes on and on.
What the minister has commented today Mr. Chairman, and earlier this week is that we're committed to reviewing that formula and a large part of that of course is the student teacher ratio, coming up with recommendation of how to make the components of that overall more relevant to Nunavut.
I am sure Mr. Chairman and the members will appreciate that to change and improve that has implications dollar wise so that is something that once we have done our homework, what we believe is right educationally, that's something that the minister would want to take before the government.
So I will conclude Mr. Chairman, by saying that it's complex and technical and we will provide a written summary of how that works and I believe we should be able to have that in one or two working days to the members' satisfaction. Nakuurmiik.
Before I recognize anybody else, when I was young, when I started being involved in committees and boards and agencies, I use to work with Louis Pilakapsi and Raymond Ningeocheak.
I would like to recognize them and welcome them because they have been the main people to create Nunavut also.
Thank you. Mr. Irqittuq.
This is very brief. Question.
Within the Education Department if there was any urgent requirement do you have any reserve funds, contingency funds.
I would like to ask that question to be replied to by the Minister of Finance.
Minister of Finance, if you can respond.
I don't know what kind of a slush fund the Department of Education would have within their budgets.
Quite frankly if there is any issue in respect to additional needs that was within the Department of Education budget, the Financial Management Board would be asked to deal with that issue if it is outside their budget.
I would like to thank the Finance Minister for his reply and would like to supplement.
Although we do not have surplus funds, if there was an urgent need because we did not get the number of students enrolled before the school year, we do have a contingency fund for 1.2 million dollars.
For example if a family moved to another community and they had many children just in case we didn't get enough teachers to keep the student teacher ratio accurate, then we do have the 1.2 million dollars for that.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Minister of Education and the Finance Minister.
Your responses are clear.
The first one being, as I am aware now we are using the Alberta curriculum system with our educational curriculum.
I really do not know where the line is drawn when I was with the Divisional Board of Education we planned the curriculum to grade six, we completed that curriculum for those grades.
The curriculum from grade 7 to grade 12 were being planned and worked on that would be used for Nunavut.
Some parents wanted to have Inuktitut curriculum for their children, so what is the status of that plan now.
There are two questions he posed at the same time and you can respond to both, Minister of Education.
Hon. James Arvaluk (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, perhaps I would like to respond to the first one, the second question I did not quite understand.
So I would like to get clarification from him.
With the Alberta education curriculum, since we are using that system today and also the minister's counterparts in the west I usually work with them all the way to BC, Northwest Territories, Yukon, Alberta, Manitoba and Saskatchewan.
I usually work with my colleagues from these regions and we do strategize for the future. As my colleague knows, we would like to have curriculum made in Nunavut for Nunavut within the schools, and the curriculum should keep up to date and up to par with the university levels.
For that reason, those are our goals and that is our mission.
Once we complete the curriculum it will be easier, and perhaps at that time we will have a mission so that we can be up to par with the rest of the world.
If I am not too clear, Naullaq can elaborate.
I would like to ask Mr. Barnabas if you got the response that you were looking for since you asked two questions.
Could you elaborate on your second question please.
Mr. Barnabas (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, perhaps I will wait for Naullaq's response.
I think I know the answer but I would like to see or hear it for the record so that the rest of my colleagues' can know about it too.
You know the answers and you do not bring them out.
Hon. James Arvaluk (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, yes we can respond to you in a document and that way we can have a detailed response, especially about high schools and the Alberta system.
We have to keep up to their level and that's what we are working on and we are now in the planning stages to make a report on that.
Your second question, you're okay now.
Mr. Chairman, I move that we take a twenty-minute break.
We would be back at ten to.
Chairperson (interpretation): There is a motion on the floor to take a twenty-minute break and resume after the break.
I will grant this.
Thank you. Mr. Nutarak did you want to make another comment before we take a break.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): Yes I would like to meet with the regular members in the Nanuq meeting room upstairs.
Chairperson (interpretation): Regular members are asked to go upstairs to the Nanuq room.
We will take a twenty-minute break.
>>Committee recessed for twenty minutes
Chairperson (interpretation): The committee will now come to order.
We are dealing with the Education budget.
If the minister is ready I will ask him and his witnesses to go back to the witness table.
I can take his place right now as we start the committee.
First I would like Peter Kattuk to speak.
Just before we begin, I would like to recognize an individual, Donald Watt welcome to the House.
Mr. Kattuk (interpretation): He is from the Makkivik Corporation.
Welcome to the house.
We were under general comments, Department of Education.
Are there any comments from the floor.
Mr. Nutarak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairperson.