EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
I was thinking about whether the curriculum was included in there.
Thank you for the clarification Mr. Chairman.
Chairperson (interpretation): I think that was just a comment so, Mr. Havioyak.
I just want to ask in regards to the 5-year Capital Plan.
I think I read you correctly that when you receive letters from the Hamlets from each community requesting you to consider a project, again just to make sure we are on the list here, again using the classroom for example, when you look at the 5-year Capital Plan.
I guess they don’t go on the list even though it is set for this year.
How far along are they. Is it within the 5 years or within 3 years.
At least put it on the list even though there is nothing in there because that way we know a couple of years down the road that we don't put it aside and forget about it.
I just want to make sure.
The reason why I am saying that when we are talking about the capital plan, I know there was a letter cc’ed to you in regards to the new Arctic College building that is for a classroom type thing.
I just want to make sure that is put on the list so at least it is there and we could talk about it down the road.
I just wanted to make a comment on that, maybe that is a question, if it can be answered.
Do you consider putting them on the list at least.
Hon. Peter Kilabuk (interpretation): Yes, Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to let the members know that, yes, I understand where he is coming from.
We don't just plan it year by year, we have to look farther than that.
We would like to see these projects that have been put ahead but the only problem we have is the shortage of funding.
If the things that you want are not included in the 5-year Capital Plan but it is already in our department, my staff can try to include them.
I just wanted to clarify that we shouldn't forget these projects.
For example if my constituents in Kugluktuk had mentioned this and I relayed it to you, I don't want you to forget what our concerns are in our communities.
Regarding the capital plans, we will always consult with the members and not forget what they have requested.
What we do is enter them into the computer and this way we deal with them as they come.
Mr. Chairman, as we all know from the Minister of Finance's budget address where it talks about the summary of our fiscal position there's about total, I believe, 8 million dollars worth of capital carry-overs from last year.
I'm just wondering if there are any projects that the Department of Education had planned to do last year that had been carried forward for whatever reason.
How much of what we are seeing for this year is carried over from last year.
Hon. Peter Kilabuk (interpretation): Mr. Chairman if it is okay with you, I will ask my Deputy Minister to respond to the question.
Mr. Moody: Qujannamiik Itsivautaq.
The short answer Mr. Chairman, is that we haven't been in the part of the process yet where departments have been asked to formally request carry-overs from the current year to next year.
So, no departments have done that yet.
So, these are projects as we see them not including any potential carry-overs from this year.
I don't know if it would be right to ask if the minister is anticipating any problems with meeting the timeframes or the commitments that it made or budgeted for as capital projects last year if they anticipate any of those having to be carried over or not.
Most of the projects are on time and that's the projects that were budgeted for last year.
Mr. Chairman, one last question.
Looking at the substantial increase in capital for the Department of Education, I'm just wondering if there are any special measures or efforts being made to ensure that these things do get completed not only in a timely matter but in a most cost effective manner as well.
I'm just wondering is there a way of monitoring the timelines and timeframes being followed and also given the volume of capital projects being done is there any thought been given to look at realizing any economy of scale in any of this as well.
We previously did not have a monitoring system but we do have a capital projects person now, Lorne Levy, who can keep an eye out on these projects.
Chairperson (interpretation): That's it.
We are on Education, program summary, details of expenditures.
Total capital expenditures, 29 million.
If there's no further questions, we can then move onto 9-7. Education Branch Summary.
Corporate Services.
I apologize. Mr. Havioyak
Mr. Havioyak: We are going to continue on with those reports, actually just even if I should say report progress on this report.
It may take a little longer in this area on these two pages we are going on but if we get into it or not.
I’m sure the rest of the Assembly is agreeable to that.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you. Mr. Havioyak would like to report progress, there’s a motion on the floor, all in favour.
We can get the Speaker back.
I didn’t hear any calls for a nay vote.
Unless I missed it in the translation.
I only heard for those in favour of the motion.
Am I wrong in that assumption.
I’ll call again.
There’s a motion on the floor to report progress.
Please be very clear.
All those in favour of reporting progress.
Nays.
We will then keep going but I do have an engagement and I think Mr. Iqaqrialu is fresh.
He can take on the Chair.
In order to be properly coordinated, and for Mr. Iqaqrialu to get briefed, we’ll take a 10 minute break.
>>Committee recessed at 5.43 and resumed at 5.52
Chairperson (Mr. Iqaqrialu) (interpretation): Thank you. At this time, this is the first time I am chairing the Committee of the Whole since the fall, so this is my first sitting during this Session.
It will be a very well run Committee of the Whole.
If there are no further comments on 9-5.
Page 9-7.
Don't say anything yet because I haven't read them yet.
Mr. Chairman, I just want to confirm that we are on page 9-7 looking at corporate services and the detail of capital, looking at building and works, headquarters region, Iqaluit.
Is that where we are.
Chairperson (interpretation): You put up your hand before I finished speaking.
Education branch summary, corporate services.
Building and works, total headquarters region, 200 thousand.
We are here, if you have any comments on this issue, we can then proceed.
Under total headquarters region.
Mr. Chairman, I enquired to this topic with the minister and the staff had indicated it was used for minor capitol.
Basically it's a contingency fund used for minor capitol projects.
I would like to ask the minister if they have any standards or criteria that they use in determining what those funds will be used for.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you Mr. Tootoo. Mr. Minister of Education.
Not Sustainable Development.
The smaller projects have the same criteria as major ones.
It is the same for both.
Are those the standards that are applied to this, and how does the department determine priorities where those dollars are going to go.
These are contingency funds and they are for things that need to be dealt with right away.
Any further questions Mr. Tootoo.
Again I am asking, recognizing one I don't know why it doesn't say a reserve or contingency, I know it is not identified like that in the budget, as you look at it here it looks like that money is being spent in Iqaluit.
When in fact the 200 thousand dollars that is in there this year is being spent in, I believe, it was Clyde River.
I am wondering why and if they know where those dollars are going why it is not identified in the budget like that by those projects.
I agree with you whole-heartedly.
Mr. Chairman, this is for the whole of Nunavut and it looks like it is in Iqaluit.
So next time it will be more specific as to what is going to be used.
Any questions. Mr. Tootoo.
The minister just indicated prior to this being approved we already know where the money is going and again if all the other projects that are down here, it is not really a contingency fund if it already has been something that had been identified as to where it is going.
I just wonder how they determine you know what is the contingency and what is the project that is already pre identified.
Maybe I didn’t make myself clear Mr. Chairman, and I apologize for that.
These are not identified for the specific purpose they are going to be used for.
It is being set aside for emergencies or some things that may arise in the upcoming year.
Mr. Chairman, maybe I'm mistaken.
If he can clarify my understanding. Yesterday that department official indicated the projects exactly where the money was going.
We are going to see what happens and than we’ll use it.
So there are already previously identified projects. I am hearing two different stories.
I am wondering if you could clarify that.
For your clarification yesterday, we use some examples, these monies will he used for minor capital projects.
They haven't been identified for a specific purpose on what they are going to be used for or what project.
That is for your clarification, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman, I'll read Hansard yesterday where it says “this year this funding is to support the Clyde River new school temporary renovations that are required to continue and also to support contingency operations.
Also there are two projects in Arviat.
One was the playground flooding issue that had to be corrected and the second was the portable handicap access”.
In my mind, that's saying what this 200 hundred thousand is being used for.
Is that what this 200 hundred thousand that's in the budget here has been identified for.
This is not for this current year. That was for the next fiscal year.
Again, Mr. Chairman, I’m just wondering what does the department use to constitute what type of criteria or standard is to be used to determine what an emergency is.
Is an emergency a ramp or flooding in the playground, how high does the water have to be you know, one foot, two foot, six inches before it's considered an emergency and something has to be done.
Surely the department must have some type of criteria that's used in determining what constitutes an emergency of where this funding will go.
The criteria or standards take into account the age of structure, if it's a safety issue, if there's not enough money set aside for that project, if there's a malfunction or if it needs to be upgraded.
The Department of Public Works also has access to these funds.
Mr. Chairman, there's a couple of interesting points here that the minister raised is things need to be upgraded.
For what types of reasons do these things need to be upgraded.
Because I want it to look nicer, it would be nice to have this or we can upgrade to that again what specific types of criteria are used in determining where these dollars are going.
If they want something to just be worked on for whatever reason.
I wonder if the minister can be specific in determining the types of criteria that are used to identify where these dollars go.
Like I said, these monies can be accessed by Public Works also.
Our capital projects person, Mr. Levy can elaborate further.
Chairperson: Thank you, Mr. Kilabuk.
In terms of criteria, these are what are deemed to be emergency situations.
The Department of Public Works for all of the components of our schools has what’s called a life cycle for them.
So they know how long the furnishing should last on average.
They know how long all of the parts of the school should last.
Sometimes we run into what we call emergency situations though, where they fail.
It’s not a warranty situation, it's not a maintenance situation, it’s one where it’s a replacement situation beyond that.
An example could be where a furnace is no longer functioning and it's determined that it's urgent, we have to replace it but it's not for maintenance reasons.
It's exceeded it's life.
So in those situations, with our authority, we would transfer the funds to allow that to proceed.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Levy.
Any other questions, Mr. Tootoo.
Mr. Chairman, is he saying that then they have an inventory basically of all facilities whether they do or the Department of Public Works does and monitors things and as soon as something hits the, you know, they projected the last 20 year's uses up to that 20 years and after that 20 years if something needs to be replaced that’s what determines where these funds are used. Is that what he is indicating.
Hon. Peter Kilabuk (interpretation): I apologize, Mr. Chairman.
We’ll refer that question to that to Mr. Levy, if that’s okay with you Mr. Chairman.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Kilabuk.. Mr. Levy.
Mr. Levy: Thank you Mr. Chairman.
Yes, there are inventories of the schools, both Public Works and our department keep inventories.
This is one of the elements that we looked at, so it's not the only one but in certain situations we would use this funding for that purpose if it was deemed an emergency and appropriate.
It's not the only situation but this would be one.
Mr. Chairman, maybe I could ask if Mr. Levy or the minister could inform us as to what other elements are taken into consideration, other than the life cycle, what other elements that they also will use.
I would like to remind everyone that we’re just dealing with the overall picture.
We’re not looking into all the little details.
When we’re dealing with the capital issues, we try to, we put in some estimates on the numbers but we do not deal with all the little details.
Even as that’s the case, Mr. Minister, if you would like to respond.
Hon. Peter Kilabuk (interpretation): I would like to apologize Mr. Chairman.
I would like to ask Mr. Levy to respond to that question.
If that’s okay with you Mr. Chairman.
There is a guideline that is included in the standards and criteria.
It describes what we call the 5 categories.
That is soon to be made available.
But they include: number 1 was for life and health; number 2 is space shortfalls; number 3 is deficiencies; number 4 is upgrades; and number 5 is considered technical.
There were so many possible projects that could fall under this.
It could also include something such as a school bus having the motor seized where it was deemed it was essential to replace that to allow transportation to continue.
It would be very difficult to give an all-inclusive listing.
But with the assistance of the Department of Public Works as well as the school operations as well as District Education Authorities, we go through these.
But the standards and criteria are available for reference.
Mr. Chairman, I thank Mr. Levy for providing the criteria, different things that are looked at and clarifying that.
I am just wondering Mr. Chairman the amount you are looking at the cost of just getting a motor replaced for a bus in any of the communities.
Because of the remoteness of it, if you don't happen to blow the motor just in time to throw it on a ship and get it up there, you are looking at high air freight costs and sometimes even maybe having to fly in mechanics into some communities.
I don't know if all communities have the capacity to do that.
Just on that, what type of a demand has the department had historically on this type of fund.
Is this 200 thousand dollars something that is eaten up right away.
Are there a lot of requests for things that don't get approved because the resources aren’t there for it.
Or is it every year we get 200 thousand dollars worth of requests that fall under this.
I just was wondering if we could get some history on that.
If you will be asking another question that will be your last question.
I would like to give the rest of the members an opportunity to ask questions. Mr. Kilabuk.
Since we created the Nunavut government, we've only been working on this for one year now.
I know that if we are going to be looking at one year, before that it is going to be hard to find out what the real needs are in the communities.
I know we have only been in existence for one year but the Divisional Boards of Education have been going on for quite a few years.
I find it very odd or hard to say we can't judge.
We don't have anything because we've only been here for a year.
Surely there is some more background that you used in developing a budget than just we're guessing, we've only had one year to come up with this.
These numbers account for more than one year.
I am sorry but the answer the minister gave it just doesn't seem adequate.
Maybe if he could elaborate a little bit more on that.
There must be some history that justifies that number.
Yes, if it's okay with you Mr. Chairman I would like my official to respond.
I can respond partly in terms of my previous role as assistant director with the school board.
We've had excellent co-operation with the Department of Public Works and many times we look at a project and finally make it work where one or both of us will assume the partnership approach, just to make the funds go as far as they can.
In my experience this amount of funding, I guess I'm hesitant to say it is adequate because you always get a number of demands in any one year. There can always be extenuating circumstances, but certainly from my experience this amount of money has proven to be enough with that continued partnership with Public Works.
I have to ask the other members if they have any questions other than Mr. Tootoo.
If there are no questions from the rest of the members, Mr. Tootoo, do you have any other questions.
Mr. Tootoo: Thank you Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman I could ask questions all night.
We are only here for a short period of time so let's make the best use of the time as we can.
Mr. Chairman, given the fact that over the years and it's been clearly identified, a lot of the infrastructure that we have in the education system throughout Nunavut, may not be fair to say it is decaying, a lot of it is very old and reaching the end of it's useful life and whenever that happens you see a lot more problems or emergencies that happen as a result of that.
As communities grow and things happen as far as things reaching the end of their useful life and things happening, you know, an example of floods in schools and the floors having to be replaced.
You also look at an example of where we almost, Mr. Chairman, almost, lost a school here to fire last year.
It was very fortunate that the fire department was able to react as quick as they did and respond to be able to save the school say, a few more minutes and it would have gone in underneath and that would have been pretty much it for one of the schools that we have.
Also looking at maybe skirting in a school, different things, these are the types of things that we are starting to see more of happen in the communities.
Is there a way or is there a possibility in this contingency of monitoring it, to set aside in the contingency plan a fixed amount each year.
Will the department be evaluating the number of requests that it gets for that to ensure that they either, we have to look at doing things differently or, increasing that amount based on need.
To me, it's just good sound planning if you're keeping track of how many times or how many requests you get for something like that and any plans that they have in monitoring and updating if necessary this contingency fund.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Tootoo. Minister Kilabuk.
We are now starting to use that procedure and we are already using that kind of procedure and will continue to use that procedure.
We are under 200 hundred thousand.
Total Headquarters.
So we have to he careful whether this figure is going to be changed or not.
So we have to keep that in mind.
As the Minister indicated they are already using a system to monitor and track the types of requests being made to this contingency fund.
I look forward to seeing some type of report or on that maybe if the Minister could provide that for this past year or something.
I am going to make a mental note to ask about next year's when we do the same thing again.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Tootoo, your question is not within the topic that we are talking about.
So, please try and keep to the topic.
I'll leave it to the Minister and his officials whether they want to respond to the question because we are now dealing with Capital Estimates.
Since now we have a policy person in our department we will keep on monitoring those.
Yes, we get requests for maintenance work or if there is anything that needs to be fixed.
About your question, when we can make them available, we will make them available to you.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Kilabuk.
Mr. Chairman, I am just trying to find out and look forward to finding out information that justifies the amounts that we see in the budget and ensuring that is the type of information that we need to ensure that it is an adequate amount as well.
The Minister indicated that he would provide that information.
I would just ask more specifically what kind of a time frame or would he be able to provide this past year's information.
This year is almost ending.
So the information to date that they've had and a more specific time as to when he can do that.
Yes, I would like to make that information available during the end of the fiscal year.
As soon as it is available we will make it available to you.
If there are there no further questions.
Do you agree with total headquarters for 200 thousand dollars.
Chairperson (interpretation): Total Qikiqtaaluk region, 12 million 425 thousand dollars.
Chairperson (interpretation): Going to the next page 9-8.
You've already approved 12 million 425 thousand dollars.
Any further questions to this.
Chairperson (interpretation): Then we move on to 9-8.
Total Kivalliq region, 8 million 660 thousand dollars.
It became clear, Mr. Chairman, during question period as I stated before that I would be asking this question when we reached this in the estimates.
My question is, will we be building more expensive school facilities.
I'd like to get some clarification so that I could have a better understanding on why it is so expensive.
I would not be able to say that it is one area that we could identify that makes things so expensive.
Kivalliq region, total 8 million 660 thousand.
Chairperson (interpretation): Total Kitikmeot region, 7 million 785 thousand.
Mr. Chairman, one of the projects listed in there is Killiniq High School replacement in Cambridge Bay and I'd just like to ask the minister if, I know that was a project that raised a lot of questions last year.
I'd just like to ask the minister if the prior years, the amounts that are listed on there, if the project is coming in as it has been budgeted for.
Are there any savings or cost over-runs that the department may be anticipating.
Who will respond.
The Killiniq high school replacement is on schedule according to most recent reports, which we received last month.
Mr. Chairman, I know the minister indicated that they are up to date with the work and that.
I'm just wondering are they on budget, that is what I'm asking.
Hon. Peter Kilabuk: Yes, they are.
Mr. Chairman, they’re on budget.
I'm glad to hear that they're on budget for the 9.5 million dollars that we gave them last year.
I'd like to ask if I can get an idea of the 5.1 million dollars that is being allocated towards the project this year, is that it or what does that cover.
What was missing out of that 9 million that needs to be done yet with that 5.
The 5 million 112 thousand dollars that is allocated is for the work that still needs to be done to complete the project.
I gather that.
What stage is it at.
Is it at the closing stage.
Are they just doing the finishing touches on the inside, when will the students of Cambridge Bay be able to anticipate using their nice new facility.
It'll probably take another year.
The exterior and the roof had been completed when I was there.
The interior will take another year to be completed.
Mr. Tootoo are you done.
Mr. Chairman, this is more just a thing that I wanted to find out, I have asked but wasn't able to find out.
In the school I understand that it has a larger size gym and based on the information provided in Committee of the Whole last year that the gym is square.
What type of floor is the gym going to use.
Is it a hardwood floor or that rubberized floor that is out there as well.
I cannot get that information right now.