EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Once we construct a unit, the mortgage has to be paid for a long time and the operations and maintenance of the units have to be paid for.
I know the young people need to find their own homes.
Perhaps within the coming four years we will have to review it and find out how we can accommodate the young people.
For youth issues there is a department that deals with the youth, the Department of Culture, Language, Elders & Youth.
I don't know what the programs are for that department.
Perhaps work with them and reconsider this and deal with this.
Mr. Havioyak (interpretation): Thank you for your response.
It is becoming clear in the future, we have to think about those things I just mentioned.
I believe it is in Taloyoak there is a youth centre, it might not be your building.
It is a private project where you lease it.
This is utilized by youth.
For the future, we need to co-operate and work with each other to make this thing run.
It is not so much a question but to look in the future to see that it runs well with the co-operation of those involved.
These comments are geared to youth centres.
In Taloyoak, I know that they did a pilot project where they have a youth centre.
I’m sure that they did not just get our funding and they had other sources of funding and they did fundraising and that’s how they got that youth centre.
It’s understandable that we need places for young people.
When they get a spouse, there’s hardly any room left.
Yes we can consider this in the future when we start dealing with the Capital Estimates again as we have to approve these Capital Estimates annually for the Housing Corporation.
Yes, we take into consideration the recommendations and suggestions we get from the members.
I have no more names on my list. Mr. Nutarak.
There was a question a little while ago by one of the members.
Do we have any catalogues where we could order houses, are they in your office Madam Minister, or in the local communities’ Housing Associations.
Chairperson (interpretation): Ms. Thomson.
They are in the local Housing Authorities, and the local Housing Authorities can get them from our department.
If anybody wants to get a home then they can take a look at the catalogue of companies that provide housing.
So if anybody needs one or wants to look at one, they can get them from the Arviat office.
I want to say something that I never said yesterday is welcome to the minister and her staff to the Assembly.
I’m sorry I missed doing that yesterday.
Mr. Chairman, under 12-5 there’s over 40 million dollars in grants and contributions.
Are those contributions that the corporation makes to LHOs for the operations and maintenance of the public housing inventory.
I will get Ms. Hine to answer that question.
I was looking at something else and I will get Ms. Hine to answer the question.
The 40 million that’s showing here is the total contribution provided to us from the Government of Nunavut.
So it includes all our O&M including the money that we give to the LHOs, plus the money that we have for our staff.
So it’s the total O&M for the corporation that we receive from the Government of Nunavut.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
It is showing roughly, rounded off, roughly a 4 million dollar increase over the previous year.
I’m just wondering if the minister or her staff could indicate where those increases are going.
Mr. Darcy: Thank you.
I'm just pushing ahead here.
The increase to the LHOs is 2.1 million for new units and 1.5 million dollars for fuel costs.
However they have also been reduced by 1.3 million dollars, excuse me Mr. Chairman, I'm sorry, we are only talking about the Government of Nunavut dollars.
To be honest it's a little bit difficult dealing with just the Government of Nunavut dollars in that we've added the 58 million dollars from CMHC also to come up to a better number.
The actual increase in Government of Nunavut dollars comes from our forced growth requests for staffing of about 800 thousand dollars.
About 2.1 million and 1 million and five-ish for the fuel increase.
Mr. Chairman, the 1.5 million dollar increase to the LHO funding as a result of the fuel increase, is that adequate, will that offset the total impact on the LHOs or will they have to basically eat a little bit each on their own and if so how much.
We based our projections on the whole year and covering off the whole of the fuel cost.
Mr. Tootoo: Qujannamiik Itsivautaq.
Last year in the main estimates there was an increase of 600 thousand dollars to assist the LHOs with the 5-cent increase.
I'm just wondering why we saw only a 600 thousand dollar increase and I believe that was only for a partial year.
Now that we are seeing a 14-cent increase then there's only 1.5 million dollars. I'm just wondering, if the 600 thousand was for a 5-cent increase why are we only seeing a 1.5 million increase for a 14-cent increase.
I have no knowledge about where the 600 thousand came from but we do know that we used actual consumptions in our 25 communities to calculate the 1.5 and 2.1 that we used for next year. Also we used that for our increase for this fiscal year of 913 thousand.
That was the most empirical or the most specific information that we could use and we think that it is accurate.
Mr. Chairman, Mr. Darcy had also indicated the, and I believe, I'm guessing that it's probably in the CMHC funding that there's been a decrease of 1.3 million dollars.
I'm just wondering if that 1.3 decrease that he referred to was a decrease in the funding from CMHC and is this the first part of what I understand is the new agreement, the social housing agreement that we signed with CMHC which the federal government has declining funding over the next 30 years basically to nothing.
If this is the first in a number, what are we looking at over the next few years as far as decreased funding from CMHC.
No, it is not a reduction from CMHC funding.
It hasn't started to drop off yet.
Mr. Chairman, I am wondering about that 1.3 million dollar reduction, where are we seeing that.
Where is that reduction being made.
The amount was transferred in the last fiscal year from the modernization and improvement capital line over to O&M for the local housing organizations.
The previous management team had made that decision.
This year we transferred it back where it would normally belong into the M&I program.
We saw that in the capital yesterday in fact.
So all of that money has gone back or will go back to the LHOs.
So it is not lost.
The questions that are being asked are on page 12-7.
We'll get to that in a few minutes.
The question that the member is asking will be on page 12-7.
Mr. Havioyak: I am not sure if it the right place to ask right now.
I should have asked earlier but you can cut me off if you want to.
But I just wanted to mention it.
During the federal throne speech there is some mention of the aboriginal housing money across Canada.
I can't remember the exact title but you may know what I am referring to.
Can some of that money be used in this area or maybe are we trying to access that money.
I believe it was over 680 million dollars across Canada.
I know that my staff have been working hard with the officials of the federal government on that recent announcement.
It is not very flexible at all for us.
So we are just working on that just to make sure that it is more flexible so that we can have access to those funds.
My staff are working with the federal government on that along with the other provinces in Canada.
If there are no further questions on that page.
Other information items, 12-7.
Mr. Havioyak: I wanted to ask on 12-6 about the 38 million.
I know we talked about M&I projects.
I wanted to make sure that each community has enough money to do their M&I projects.
Is this here in Headquarters not in the regional level.
We are talking O&M budget.
M&I was already approved in the capital section of the budget.
Chairperson (interpretation): Thank you, just to let the members know that 12-5 is the one we have to agree on.
For pages 12-6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13, you can ask questions on them, we just have to approve the total O&M.
Mr. Havioyak: That’s ok.
Along the same line as my colleague, the member for Kugluktuk, he asked why is this distribution of 38 million 823 thousand to the three regions.
Do I understand then the 38 million 823 thousand, why is this not split up like the rest of the money that is being spread out in other regions.
Chairperson (interpretation): Say “thank you” so we can move along better.
If you go to 12-9, it explains the distribution of the 38 million.
Mr. Arvaluk: If that’s the case, I’m still missing something like 10 million dollars, so where is that 10 million dollars, on what page.
I guess what I’m getting at here is the distribution of budget, and 12-9 debt repayment, why are they on two pages, and where is that 10 million, on what page.
I find it very confusing here.
I will ask Ms. Hine to respond to his question and that’s a really good question.
The 12-6 is just, again goes out to the GN portion, it makes it difficult, we are a Corporation and we’re trying desperately to fit into the government’s format in preparing this budget, and to provide the members as much detail as possible.
It makes it a bit confusing because on several pages we are showing the GN portion, some we’re showing the additional money that we are receiving from Canada Mortgage and Housing as well and it does make a little bit of confusion.
Now a lot of the money shown in the headquarters of 38 million would be money that’s actually going to be the money that’s going out to the local housing associations and funding them for the operation and maintenance of our public housing units.
As we go through the information pages, you will see where it breaks down in a lot more detail.
So we should actually skip the 12-6 and use the innards, gizzards, whatever you want to call them.
From the 12-6, I understand the GN portion of the distribution of budget, and 12-6 is actually the rest of the pages like the minister says.
If that’s the case Mr. Chairman, then I’ll wait until we get to the proper pages.
We agree with his suggestion.
Chairperson (interpretation): You can turn the page to 12-7.
Corporate summary. Mr. Tootoo.
I've been raising my hand and I think it's kind of late but now that you noticed me, I wanted to ask a supplementary question to Donald's question. The minister was saying that her staff is working very hard and they are going to be lobbying the federal government for more funds.
I want to ask the minister if she herself will go to Ottawa and lobby for more funds.
Hon. Manitok Thompson (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, I've been to Ottawa three times and have met with the federal minister and yesterday I said that we are still planning to go down with Paul Quassa, the NTI president.
Mr. Chairman, I just want to clarify because it is a little confusing that one page only showing the Government of Nunavut portion and the rest of it showing the combined one.
This corporate summary on this page is basically a total overall picture. It shows the Government of Nunavut funding and the CMHC funding total.
Is this just basically the other half, like 12-5 shows the Government of Nunavut portion and this 12-7 shows the Government of Nunavut and the CMHC portion.
The member is correct that 115 million shows everybody, Government of Nunavut and CMHC funding on this page.
I notice that for 12-7 and 12-9 there was a debt reduction of 29 million 3 and you have other expenses 28 million 294 thousand. Why is it called other expenses when almost all of it is a big debt reduction, repayment.
Hon. Manitok Thompson: Sorry, Mr. Chairperson.
I will ask Mr. Darcy to answer that question.
We do know that other expenses includes 28 million in debt repayment to CMHC for amortization.
I'll give it to Mr. Darcy to answer or elaborate more on that.
Chairperson: Mr. Darcy.
It's simply a formatting thing so that the Corporation can fit better within the Government of Nunavut and we have fewer lines to look at when we are looking at the main estimates.
So this was the first year that we included all of the CMHC portions of the funding and because of that we've made a decision to put it with other expenses and add a new page called debt repayment.
If that is not working for the members, we’ll change it over the course of the year as we reformat the main estimates for next year.
Chairperson (interpretation): If you are going to raise a question, just raise your hand right away.
I have ample time to ask questions here.
On the overall picture here, there has been as you indicated, there's a slight increase in O&M from the Government of Nunavut.
Was there any increase or decrease from the CMHC or did it stay the same.
It stayed the same, the money that we get from CMHC.
Mr. Chairman, I'll put my hand up higher.
I know we have a declining funding scale with CMHC but when are we going to see a decrease in that CMHC funding.
Is that going to be, if we don't see anything this year will it be next year or the year after.
I am just wondering when we are going to start seeing the decrease.
As the buildings are paid off between 2003-2037, this amount will be going down and that’s when it starts to decline.
The minister indicated once the mortgages basically fall off the books I think you indicated that we would no longer be receiving any funding for these buildings.
My colleague pointed out that right now we get I think it is roughly 60 million dollars right now from CMHC.
They give us a check in one hand of 60 million dollars and we have to give them another check back for 28 million dollars and as the payments drop so basically does the funding drop.
I am just wondering if they're going to keep helping us operate and maintain our public housing inventory.
As long as those mortgages are on the books where is the funding going to come from to operate those units once we no longer we get that funding from CMHC.
Chairperson (interpretation): Madam Thompson.
Hon. Manitok Thompson: The funding would have to come from our government here in Nunavut.
What the member is talking about is on page 12-9.
That is where the debt repayments are.
On page 12-9.
I know it is a little bit confusing because we have 28 million dollars here on 12-7.
But for that specific question that is on page 12-9.
Mr. Chairman, roughly then if you look at what we receive and what we have to give back to CMHC, the contribution that we do get basically you know is roughly about 32 million dollars a year that we get to operate and maintain our inventory.
Hon. Manitok Thompson: Yes.
Chairperson (interpretation): Mr. Tootoo do you have any more questions.
Page 12-7.
On compensation and benefits, I might have missed it somewhere.
Are you close to 100% staffing with this figure.
This 12-9 is for all of the staff we have.
The question is, are we staffed fully now, no we are not fully staffed yet.
Mr. Havioyak: At least give me an idea I guess.
With this number what percent are staffed.
We are at 78% right now.
Mr. Havioyak: That is all at headquarters or across Nunavut.
That is for everybody in Nunavut.
Chairperson (interpretation): The Nunavut Housing Corporation information item, 12-7.
We'll turn to 12-8.
Mr. Chairman, there is quite a substantial increase in the compensation and benefits.
I am wondering if the minister could indicate how many PYs there were there last year and how many are here in the budget for this year.
This represents the 11 additional staff authorized for headquarters.
Four at the Directorate in Iqaluit, which is the President, Director of Policy, Executive Secretary and Policy Analyst and 18 at the headquarters group in Arviat.
That includes the Chief Financial Officer who is currently in Iqaluit on a casual basis right now.
Other additional staff from the original 11 in 1999 as part of Community Government & Transportation, are the revenue clerk, data entry, control clerk, manager of financial services, manager design and development, contract co-ordinator, maintenance co-ordinator, architect.
That is the breakdown of compensation and benefits.
Mr. Chairman, I think I heard there are 11 new positions.
As I remember reading and I can't remember if it was in business plan or where, hearing that there were approximately 20 new positions in the Corporation.
I am wondering if this increase in Headquarters covers that off, like the total number Corporation wide.
Was it 11 more or 20 more and where are those positions.
When we first started as a government, housing was with Community Government & Transportation and then Housing became part of Public Works.
Those 11 positions were transferred to the housing corporation that was technical staff.
Those are the 11 positions I am talking about.
However, for additional information on the 22 or 20, one of my staff might have that information.
Mr. Chairman, I'll ask Mr. Darcy to elaborate more on those numbers.
The Corporation, pre-division, went through a couple of changes post-division where some staff were amalgamated over into CGHT and some staff weren’t.
Then after the first three months we were not divorced but changed back to a stand alone Corporation.
Through that mess, through that interesting time I should say, excuse me Mr. Chairman, the main estimates for the corporation had to be developed and 36 PYs were put in as the actual number.
I have to tell you that we don't know where those 36 PYs came from.
But what we generally did was we took the ones back from Community Government and Transportation and then did a re-org to come up to the number of staff that we thought we could possibly use, I should say the minimum staff complement that we could possibly use to run the Corporation and that rounded out at 58.
So we went from 36 on paper to the 58 that we have now.
Which would also translate to now 11 PYs in the Kitikmeot, 11 PYs in the Kivalliq, and 14 in the Baffin added to the 22 headquarters staff will bring us up to the 58.
Mr. Chairman, just looking at the regional numbers of PYs that are there.
I know, you know, everyone knows that the Baffin is roughly twice the size of the other two districts.
I'm wondering if you take a look at the numbers they have 11 in each of the other two regions, why are there only 14 in the Baffin.
I'm just wondering if there is a cross over with headquarters, it just seems odd when you know, just looking at the numbers when you know that one region is twice the size as the others and yet there are only three more staff to run the whole region.
It's a situation that we are monitoring really closely and I think that the members could understand our position as Mr. Darcy has said originally we've gone through quite a bit of transition before we ever reached the stand alone Corporation and we're trying to operate as streamlined as possible without a lot of duplication.
We do have our headquarters now located in Arviat in this territory.
Mr. Tootoo would remember in the days of the old housing corporation we had our headquarters in Yellowknife doing the whole GNWT.
So we are hoping that we can streamline a little bit.
We are also putting a lot of emphasis on our local housing organizations as well and that's one way that we are able to keep our numbers down.
But we are monitoring the situation closely and it may be necessary to increase our staff complement.
Again, we have to have at least a good year of operations under our belt before we can look at making a case for additional staff.
Chairperson (interpretation): I don't have anybody else on my list.
We're on headquarters 12-8.
Turn to 12-9, debt repayment.
Mr. Arvaluk: What is the outstanding mortgage now after the 28 million debt repayment.
What's the total outstanding mortgage now.
Hon. Manitok Thompson: We still would have to pay 215 million dollars to CMHC for those public housing units.
That’s 28 million dollars per year.
That’s a long way to go, Mr. Chairman, how much interest do we pay in this one.
Hon. Manitok Thompson: We’re paying about 22.8 million per year in interest.
Mr. Chairman, are we just paying the interest, not paying the principal of the mortgage at all.
Is that what the minister’s saying.
As of March 31 2000, the loan amount was 215 million.
We’re paying about 5 million per year on the principal amount, and we’re paying about 22.8 million interest.
As the years go by we will be paying more on the principal and that interest until that debt is zero.
Mr. Arvaluk: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think I will allude to Ms. William’s question earlier, that, is there anything that the Corporation or the government can do to have this forgiven so that at least this new government and territory could, you know have a more positive note.
We can look into the request, to the Feds not to charge the amortization but this would mean that we would have to go back to our agreement.
If we do that, if CMHC would do it for our territory then all the other people that they agreed with, would have to be done the same.
Then it would set a precedent for everybody else that has an agreement with CMHC.
We don’t know if the CMHC would agree to this approach but we can certainly pursue the options to see if there are any alternatives for us.
Mr. Arvaluk: Mr. Chairman. I understand that, I mean, I’m open for other suggestions, it is really too bad we had a clear-cut here, we have no more forest but other jurisdictions across Canada have forests.
If Nunavut had a forest, we would probably never have been asking the CMHC for any kind of wood.
I could never understand you know, all the Inuit would be building their own houses, never mind buying them, the forest would build it themselves, and it would be probably be a lot easier than trying to live in an igloo year round.
Mr. Chairman, I’m puzzled that since we’ve been in existence for two years, we have not yet been able to try to convince the federal government and CMHC, that we have a crisis, a housing crisis in Nunavut, I think we are in worst shape than the other jurisdictions as far as housing crisis are concerned.
We have no options except to import and fly in or transport by sealift and not compare that to other jurisdictions that the minister’s talking about.
I really hope that the minister will try to have her federal counterparts understand we are in a very unique situation, we are in crisis.
I did do a very good presentation to Minister Gagliano, who is the Housing Minister for the feds and I know that ITC has also had a meeting in regards to the crisis we have up here.
We have been working with the feds, we have been telling them that and I know they have been hearing it.
But it doesn't seem to be a very easy thing to do, just to hand us some money.
That's why my officials have been working with the CMHC officials to see if the funds that are for aboriginal housing as was mentioned in the throne speech could be more flexible because we are in a unique territory up here.
I can understand the member’s frustration because we are just as frustrated.
We are in Canada and we are very eager to assist other countries in crisis.
We have a very good history of contributing to disasters in other countries.
Arviat alone one time I think raised around 38 thousand dollars, out of that small community, for Ethiopia.
We are very good at these things and I am very proud of Canada for that.
But, can we, or do we, or are we prepared to go to the United Nations and tell United Nations that Canada is ignoring it's own backyard.
Has she considered getting the information out publicly or internationally to let the other countries know that we have our own crisis in Canada in Nunavut in terms of housing that the world doesn't know about.
As you know our Premier went on Team Canada with the rest of the Premiers and I'm aware that every cabinet is also trying to lobby every time they meet with the feds on their housing crisis and I know other members, other leaders in our territory are also saying the same thing.
We can do that but it's something that I, as a Minister of Housing, couldn't do alone and I appreciate the fact that other leaders are also putting this forward in the face of the federal government. We are aware that Canada helps other countries and so on and so on.
We are doing the best we can right now.
I just had a couple of quick questions.