EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Again, I will read from the tabled document, Mr. Speaker. “Summary of recommendations…,” the second one, it said that “It is recommended that the college comply with the financial recommendations made by the Secretary of the Crown Agency Council on page 33 of this report.”
Will the minister provide this House with exactly what those recommendations were?
The Department of Education, in conducting its external review process, requested that Finance participate in that review.
The request came from the Minister of Education; we complied with it as part of our role, on a regular basis, to do an internal audit.
The recommendations that came out of that review did not come through the Crown Agency Council.
It went through the regular process of internal audit, as per the request from the Minister of Education, to assist in reviewing their financial processes and human resource training needs.
That report was completed and submitted to the Department of Education for consideration and follow up.
First supplementary, Mr. Tootoo.
It seems there is an error in the report.
Is that what the minister is saying, that it’s not accurate information that’s in the report?
My question, then, to the Minister of Finance, who is also responsible for internal audits, as she had mentioned, and provides to the members of this House any recommendations that were made to the Department of Education regarding finances of Nunavut Arctic College.
The recommendations were submitted to the Department of Education.
The Department of Education report of the external report summary was tabled in the House just recently, the executive summary.
So, I will leave it up to the Minister of Education to table that information as he sees appropriate.
The Minister of Education’s comments on whose report it was, the other day, kind of left it vague as to who is doing what or who asked for what to get done.
It wasn’t until further questioning that it got clarified that it was a joint report.
What I’m asking here is, is the minister stating then… . I would like to ask her why, in the report, as I read that the college should comply with the financial recommendations made by the Secretary of the Crown Agency Council on page 33 of that report, why would it reference the Crown Agency Council if it didn’t come from the Crown Agency Council?
As I mentioned earlier, we have a committee that was requested by the Department of Education to do an external review.
Part of that process was the involvement of our staff, that with the internal audit or the Crown group, they get together, they put forward the recommendations to the department.
The department is following with those recommendations to ensure that the financial processes are in place.
I have to go back and see where that report or the comments that you are referring to are within the timelines.
It may be a separate subject.
We’re talking about this particular external review.
I don’t know if that’s the same issue that we’re dealing with at this point in terms of the response to the standing committee or the Auditor General, whatever document you just read there.
I need to look at what that is we follow-up, to see exactly which report the recommendations or response you are referring to.
For the minister’s benefit, the tabled document, 82-2(2), was tabled on March 2, 2005 by the Minister of Education.
The minister also indicated in her response that if it was that particular one, where the recommendations were made to this report… . It begs the question to be asked: were there more reviews and more recommendations in other reports that were done on the college by the Department of Finance?
I think it’s important to say that again, the Department of Finance on a regular basis provides assistance and internal audits and reviews of any department, whether that is the college or the power corporation or Human Resources or whatnot.
That is an ongoing process all the time within the department.
Has there been another review, through an internal audit?
Perhaps there was, perhaps there wasn’t.
The executive summary that was tabled by the minister this week, of the external review, we participated in that small component of the actual review.
We put forth recommendations for training, just like we put forth recommendations for training in any department within the Department of Finance.
As an example, we have 11 interns in training to be financial officers, to build up the capacity of every department, to have trained staff on a regular basis.
That is an ongoing initiative, to do more external reviews.
I don’t believe there were more external reviews of the Arctic College.
The summary you received the other day was tabled by the Minister of Education and we are a small piece of that, in participating in that review.
I can’t respond on whether there has been other reports done; all I know is the one that was tabled in the House this week.
Speaker (interpretation): Member for Nanulik, Mr. Netser.
Question 202 – 2(2): Snow Fencing in the Communities
I have a question for the Minister of Community and Government Services.
Today I will be tabling photographic evidence of the need for new snow fencing in Chesterfield Inlet.
I know in our five-year capital plan, only one community, Baker Lake, is scheduled to have snow fencing, and that not until 2009-2010.
Good snow fencing can actually save communities money in the long run, as it reduces the need for snow removal.
My question today to the minister is this: does his department consider snow fencing to be a priority when developing a capital plan?
The ranking set by the municipalities is a big determining factor and the priority for the community can be identified to the Department of Community and Government Services by the community itself.
So, in normal past practices, the priority settings have been done, a lot, by most of the municipalities.
According to the Government of Nunavut business plans, a revised capital planning process is under development.
Can he tell the House what changes to the process are being considered and how communities will have the opportunity to indicate their own priorities?
One of the biggest changes in the process is the inclusion of the Nunavut Association of Municipalities which is representing all municipalities in Nunavut. So, the Department of Community and Government Services and NAM will be joining forces to develop the five-year or long-term capital plans.
So, that is one of the biggest changes; this is a result of funding that we will be getting from the federal government, which should see more changes by the municipalities, and not only that but the priority settings that have been done in consultation with NAM and Department of Community and Government Services with the community directly.
When do you expect to consult with our communities?
The terms of reference were being set in the past little while.
Once that is set for the consultation process to take place, I will be notifying all MLAs, and also the municipalities, of the schedule.
Question 203 – 2(2): Polar Bear Technical Committee
Mr. Curley (interpretation): I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Environment.
In News North, in an article, when it came out on Monday, in regard to polar bears and a meeting in Edmonton… .
Can the minister inform the House who is this technical committee?
I say “hi” to my constituents in Cape Dorset and Kimmirut.
Thank you for raising this question.
The technical committee had representatives from Nunavut; there were different representatives; the Canadian Wildlife Service was one of them on that technical committee.
I am not exactly sure who they represent, but I can tell the member that I can check into this.
The Canadian Wildlife Service and the Government of Nunavut are all members of this technical committee, but after doing more research, I can give him clearer information about who the members are.
If they were representing any organizations from the international community, I presume we can also make a technical committee who will work on polar bears.
When our government was formed and when I was given the responsibility of being the minister of wildlife, I met with Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated, Nunavut Wildlife Management Board and the chairpersons in regards to wildlife, as to what else we could do, and we also included the communities.
Maybe we can see them as a technical committee, just concentrating in Nunavut and on the work that we have done through the Nunavut Wildlife Management Board, Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated, and RWOs. They are also involved when we discuss polar bears.
So, I guess we work in a similar way to a technical committee.
The reason I raised this was that the polar bear hunters in Nunavut, they don’t kill polar bears just for the sake of killing.
People kill polar bears because it’s part of their diet.
For those outsiders, it seems they kill the polar bears just to sell the skins.
We don’t just kill them to sell the skin. So, for that reason, it’s hard to comprehend why it’s a joint committee.
Is it part of the Nunavut Wildlife Management Board?
If not, because there’s a growing concern from the international organizations?
Maybe we can ask the technical committee to appear before us.
I can definitely find out more information on who the members are and how many are on the committee and what their mandates are.
We also give presentations from our department to the technical committee.
The member has stated that we need everyone to understand our use of polar bears.
We will definitely work harder for the international community to recognize us.
The reason I’m asking is because the technical committee report states that the population of polar bears has decreased.
I want to know how they came up with that conclusion.
Maybe you will be able to table the technical committee report in the House.
For us, Nunavut, we keep close contact with our communities and we work very closely with them.
In regard to polar bears, our population figures come from the Nunavut Wildlife Management Board because we work closely together on this, as to how we’re dealing with the polar bear issue.
We will always say, because we represent Nunavut and we’ve been up here for a long time, that Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit is true.
When Inuit hunters say things that we know about and we need to make the world understand how things stand.
There have only been western surveys on polar bears for about 30 years.
In the past, government decisions were made by mainly focusing on the outcome of that research from the southern institutions.
I will continue to value Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit.
If I were to see the report done by polar bear biologists outside of Nunavut, yes, I would be able to table them.
Question 204 – 2(2): Disconnection Notice Policy
I will be asking further questions on an issue I brought up earlier.
I said 90, 60, and 30 days in regard to the cut off dates that the power corporation has.
At times, we’re told you have 48 hours’ notice before your power is cut off.
We’ve been getting different comments from the power corporation.
One thing that I’m concerned about is, does the power corporation have a policy where it states that they give 48 hours’ notice prior to cutting off the power to a house?
The process that we’ve talked about in the House over the last several months, and indeed the member has raised it in the past, and I appreciate the member giving us the opportunity to clarify… .
Mr. Speaker, what occurs, again, on the power bill is that, and it’s not unlike a phone bill for example… . You haven’t paid your power bill, you weren’t able to get the cheque in on time and you will receive a bill that will say what the previous balance is for the previous month.
If that amount was $100, then the next month it will say, “This is what your balance is.”
If that continues to go on, for example, 90 days, over a three month period, you haven’t paid your bill for three months, and then it will say on the bill each month, because of the arrears that are there, it will say it will be subject to disconnection.
Finally, after the 90-day period has elapsed and there is a duration there, the customer may get notification again, a 48-hour notification of a disconnect, where they contact the customer and say, “Over the last X number of days, and on your bill there has been reported arrears: you have not come in and seen us; you haven’t spoken to us; you haven’t made any arrangements to pay your bill; so, now you are subject to a 48-disconnect notice.”
At that point the customer, again, is able to walk into the power corporation and say, “Look, I just got this notice of 48 hours’ notice and I’m sorry. Here’s what I propose to do.”
Again, as soon as that is made, then that notice is disqualified. We don’t take that in account and we give the customer another opportunity.
Disconnects are only done as a final, last resort.
They don’t disconnect the power, for example, this time of year.
The regulator is put on there, what is called a load limiter, which keeps the water running; it keeps the boiler on but it doesn’t allow for televisions, and so on and so forth.
So, I hope that helps clarify how that process works.
Again, there are many checks and balances within the process.
It gives the customer opportunities throughout the arrears process to go to the power corporation and either pay their bill or make an arrangement where they have a payment plan.
I am sorry I didn’t hear an answer to what I asked for.
My question was, each time when there is a 48-hour notice, staff at the community level, in the smaller communities, do house-to-house visits saying that the tenant has a 48-hour notice.
Some day the employee might run into an aggressive man and be abused and all that.
So, is that your policy, to visit house-to-house to say that you have a 48-hour notice?
Is that a corporation policy?
In the majority of cases in our communities, the people who do the disconnects live in the community and they know the customer base.
As a courtesy, the employee will actually go to the person’s house and say, “Look, you have a 48-hour disconnect notice, what do you want to do?”
The power corporation employee doesn’t want to go in and cut someone’s power off.
They live in the community.
Mr. Speaker, as a courtesy they actually go to houses and say, in many cases, “This is what’s occurring: you have a disconnect notice.
Can you pay your bill?
Are you going to make different arrangements?” and so on.
Again, it is only when arrangements have not been made, where there hasn’t been communication between the customer and the corporation, as a final resort, that the power would be disconnected.
In this case, put on the load limiter.
Speaker (interpretation): Your second supplementary, Mr. Kattuk.
What would happen if I don’t welcome that guy into my house?
I can see you in your office?
Or, is there a better place or proper place to talk about this?
Also, sometimes they run after your vehicle in the community, when you are driving your skidoo.
Sometimes, when you are leaving the airport, they turn to you and say that you have a 48-hour notice.
That is not the proper way to run the business.
Can you look into it and do it properly in the smaller communities?
The analogy that the member use is a good indication of how eager and how conscientious some of our employees are, to try to collect the debt or the amount owed.
In this case, as I said earlier, there are X number of notices put out, 30-, 60- or 90-day notices.
They are on the bill saying that you owe, you owe, you owe.
It finally gets to the point where there has been no response from the customer and then there is a 48-hour disconnect notice given.
As a courtesy, the employee goes to the person’s house.
If they go to the house and knock on the door, “Hello, you are going to be disconnected within 48 hours unless you pay your bill,” and I don’t want to welcome the employee to my house and say, “I don’t want to hear your good or bad news,” in this case they are going to cut you off, then that is all the employee can do. The employee has actually gone in above and beyond their duty.
What I will do, I will talk to the power corporation officials again about the process of disconnecting and how the consumer base is informed. They shouldn’t be hassling the customers; their job is not to go out and hassle the customer, their job is to facilitate and work with the customer in providing power in any given community. By going to the person’s house, in many cases, they are going above and beyond in the call of duty as a courtesy to the customer.
Sometimes, it is not well welcome. The customer, as the member has said, may not want to see me come to the Speaker’s house and disconnect it.
Which I haven’t done; that is just an example.
I hope that clarifies and, again, I will ask for a review and get back to the member.
But, if he is aware of where an employee of the corporation has gone forward and hassled the customer base in his community and has done something that he feels is not acceptable, then if he would let me know about the incident and so on, in particular, that is something I would follow up on.
Question 205 – 2(2): Tabling of Crown Agency Report
Again, my question is for the minister responsible for the Crown Agency Council.
Given that the minister doesn’t seem to know if there were recommendations that were made by the Crown Agency Council, would she be willing to table any recommendations that were made by the Crown Agency Council to any of the crowns and agencies of the government.
I think it is also important to clarify: in this whole process, in the summary of the recommendations to the Department of Education, it states, under number 2, the secretary and my staff that work with the departments and agencies, in looking at all the legislation and all their calls and their Department of Human Resources practices… .
I am the chair of the CAC, and my secretary works with boards, agencies, in trying to address a number of issues related to the Auditor General’s report.
One of those initiatives happens to be an external review.
In the external review, there are 75 recommendations. Specifically what was recommended by the secretary, I don’t have that information.
The executive summary refers to their recommendations. I can only assume at this point in time, by reviewing those recommendations, what may have come from my department.
I don’t have a copy of the full report in front of me, what came from Finance to the college.
What I can say is the recommendations that went to Education for the review, where we were a part of, there are five recommendations there that have already been tabled in the House.
Which specifically fall within Finance, I can find that out and I can only guess, at this point in time, by reading those recommendations that may have come from the Department of Finance.
I would like to thank the minister for answering my previous question and her commitment to provide that information.
My question was not specific to this report. My question was, would she be willing to table and provide information to the House on any recommendations that have gone through the Crown Agency Council to any Crown corporation or agency of the government.
Would she be willing to do that?
The Crown Agency Council has been working with the Crown agencies, that have been identified to the Auditor General, on an ongoing basis.
The Finance department and the Qulliq Energy Corporation, on a regular basis, work together to try and address concerns raised.
As an example, we tabled in the House the audited financial statements of Qulliq Energy Corporation.
That was part of the overall work that we were dealing with in addressing the concerns raised by the Auditor General.
We oversee that, we collaborate with other departments.
The other thing that we have been doing as a Crown Agency Council, as I had mentioned in the House on several occasions and now raised by the same member… . Of that work involved in Crown agencies, one of the things that we have done is reviewed all the legislation associated with Crowns and boards.
Every single board and Crown operates under a different legislation, have different governance rules.
They have different accountability rules and different financial reporting systems.
One example is the year end for the college is different than any other Crown.
So, we have to work within those and have a broad understanding of what we are dealing with in providing direction to those organizations, on what specific issues have been identified.
We can’t provide direction to a Crown agency without understanding the legislation governing those bodies.
That is the work that we have been doing with this Crown agency.
No specific direction has been done since that, but on a regular basis, the department and the agency have been working to address the concerns raised by the Auditor General.
That is the work that they do on a regular basis.
Finance does not micromanage the responsibilities of every department, in overseeing the Auditor General’s report.
We oversee in terms of reporting activities, but we don’t go in there and fix it for them.
We work with them and monitor.
That is our role, and that will continue to be our role.
Once we have had a chance to review all the information that we are gathering at this point on governing structure legislation, we will be putting forth recommendations on improving the reporting or the accountability of the board, so that they are streamlined.
As this point in time, like I said, they operate differently.
They report to boards; some don’t report to boards, some do.
These are things that we need to have a clear understanding of, as well as the member; he needs to have an understanding of those as well.
So, it is our responsibility to gather that and work with the agencies in trying to address the Auditor General’s recommendations, because putting forward direction to the college is not going to be the same as to Qulliq Energy Corporation, or the business development corporation.
Again, like I alluded to my colleague, the Minister of Education the other day, that was wonderful story, but it definitely is not an answer.
It is good to hear that the Department of Finance and the minister don’t micromanage other departments.
As far as members trying to find out how things work, that is what we are doing here, by asking questions so that we can understand.
In order to help us understand, we need to see what is being done, not just say nothing is being done, or we are just looking at legislation.
From the minister’s response, is she then indicating that the Crown Agency Council has not made any recommendations to any Crown, board, or agency of the government?
Is that what she is saying, because if I interpret what she said, that is what she is saying: that they are just trying to figure out what the heck they are supposed to be doing right now, and they haven’t issued any recommendation out to any of those bodies.
I would like to ask the minister if she can verify whether they have or not.
Hon. Leona Aglukkaq: There has been a lot of work done by the Crown Agency Council.
Every single member in this House has access to that legislation, and one can figure that out very quickly by picking up the legislation governing Qulliq Energy Corporation, the college, the boards, and whatnot, that they operate differently.
You can do your own research to find that out.
That is complicated; it is difficult.
We are trying to address those on a regular basis.
Directions we have given on a regular basis; we have to report in the House the consolidated reports or the audit reports.
Those are ongoing initiatives that continue on a regular basis.
What we are doing right now is looking at all the agencies and trying to figure out the differences in how they govern.
Crown agencies, on a regular basis, report to boards.
They don’t report to the government.
The President of Qulliq Energy Corporation reports to a board.
Nunavut Arctic College’s president reports to a board.
The Housing Corporation does not have a board.
The Nunavut Business Development Corporation has a board.