EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Peterson. Mr. Enook.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, let’s say two young children are going to the hospital at the same time, can both parents escort these two children? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank Mr. Enook for the question. As I understand, under the current policy, no.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Mr. Chairman, I based this on the written sections of this policy. I may have misunderstood the language as it speaks to only one escort for the children. The way I read the language, I understand it to say that both parents have to agree if one escort is acceptable for both of their children.
That is how I understand it. So maybe I could get further clarification on this matter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I’m going to have my deputy answer that question.
If I understood the member’s question correctly, there would be an escort approved if there’s a need for legal consent by a parent or guardian. His question is a bit broad. So if the patient has some other medical reason, then yes, there would be an escort, but that’s why it’s kind of hard to answer his question.
We kind of have to have the specifics.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Ma. Mr. Enook, you have nine seconds.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): My measly nine seconds will most likely be wasted as the witnesses didn’t grasp my question, although it was very clearly articulated. Let my time expire and I will wait until all members have asked their questions to see if I can get a chance to ask my questions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Enook. Mr. Ningark.
Mr. Ningark (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’ll ask a very short question and I’ll try to make it clear. Is it H-7, or what page are we on again?
With respect to medical travel, I also discussed this issue with a medical patient. Let’s say they were going to Winnipeg.
It’s not always the elders who go to medical institutions. There are also young people who go, along with pregnant women who go to give birth. This is particularly truer in smaller communities because they have no choice but to go to Winnipeg or Edmonton and a lot of them don’t want to go out and about because they’re not used to large cities.
I’ll also cite this example.
In the Kivalliq region, in Repulse Bay, they would most likely go to Churchill, Manitoba. Churchill tends to have a lot of polar bears, especially in the fall, and a lot of people don’t walk around or go outside because they’re generally in a boarding home.
People don’t go out a lot, and here I’m talking younger people. The telephone is very expensive and I imagine there is only one phone.
I would like to ask about computers because some people want to bring their laptops so they can chat on the Internet. What about the webpage? I believe that’s the proper terminology.
Do the boarding homes have Internet access provided for these patients?
I thank Mr. Ningark for that interesting question.
Mr. Chairman, we don’t know the answer to that question. We will have to look for that information and provide it to Mr. Ningark.
With the importance of the Internet to people today, especially where one doesn’t have access to telephones and with many people wanting to utilize the Internet, if the boarding homes don’t have Internet access, can the department reconsider this since it is a medium people are now used to?
In light of several policies and the fact that people aren’t going out, and with the patients asked not to consume alcohol or to go out drinking while at the boarding home, these are the policies in use today, which is a very good policy for patients.
However, with most patients unable to go places outside of the boarding homes, Internet access can provide people with a time-consuming activity which also battles boredom.
If the boarding homes don’t have Internet access, then I would like the department to establish it at the boarding homes.
I will make this my last question at this time.
I didn’t hear a question. Minister Peterson, I’ll give you an opportunity to respond if you would like to.
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank Mr. Ningark for raising that.
It’s actually a very good thought.
I know many of my own constituents are very active on the Internet, Facebook, and emails. They have iPads, notebooks, BlackBerrys, and a whole lot of technical gadgets that they use to stay in contact with each other in our communities.
I had an opportunity to go to the Larga facility in Yellowknife a few weeks ago, a very nice facility.
I did observe that one of my own constituents was on the computer in the front office area. There is a computer that is made available to them by the facility. At least in that facility, there is Internet access.
It’s a public one.
I think what you’re referring to is whether they can have access to their own computers and we will certainly look into it.
I want to ask this question.
In June 2011, the coroner’s report included recommendations for implementation after a person passed away here in Iqaluit. The Department of Health is well aware of the case.
With my assumption that this is part of the treatment system, I want to question and if I’m wrong, please correct me, Mr. Chairman.
An expensive piece of diagnostic equipment called a CT scanner was announced as being in the works for the hospital here in Iqaluit. I had heard the federal government promised to provide funding for the purchase of this CT scanner.
During Ministers’ Statements of our daily session, the Minister of Finance announced that the government would purchase a CT scanner for the hospital.
I would like to know what the status of this initiative is, whether or not the equipment is now at the hospital here in Iqaluit. Can the minister provide an update on this matter?
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank Ms. Ell for that very important question.
Yes, we are aware of the coroner’s recommendations and it is very important that we pay attention to recommendations like that.
I had an opportunity, being a month and half into it, to tour the Qikiqtani General Hospital. I thank the executive director and other officials for giving me an excellent tour.
I had an opportunity to view the area where they’re proposing to put a CT scanner.
We do have a request in through a supp bill that we will be considering in this House next week for a CT scanner and we do have the draft RFP ready to go as soon as, hopefully, the funds get approved.
We will be accessing the funds through the federal government program. I think it’s called the Patient Wait Times Guarantee program.
Have those funds been made available? I imagine that you know the final cost of the CT scanner by now.
The request for the funding has gone through the Financial Management Board.
Now it will come to this House through a supp bill to get it approved, move the money out of what we call the boutique trust, then into the department so that they can put the RFP out, then when there’s a response to the RFP, they would be able to select the best proposal, and then purchase the equipment.
Ms. Ell (interpretation): When can we expect the release of this request for proposals and how long would we have to wait before the CT scanner is available for use here in Iqaluit?
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank Ms. Ell again for the question.
The RFP itself is ready to go.
We just need approval of the funding in the request in the supp bill and if that’s done next week in this House… .
I will be here at this witness table to speak to all the supp bills. If the funding is approved, then the RFP could go out and then the money would be transferred internally to pay for the equipment when the winning RFP is selected.
I imagine this is already known by the hospital staff and they know how to operate this machine. In the case that they did not, is there any kind of training program that has been included in the RFP for training staff to run the CT scanner? Will there be a training program for technicians to operate the CT scanner?
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank Ms. Ell again for the question and I appreciate her concern that when we do get the equipment, we actually use it.
That is the plan. I’m just reading the notes here.
There’s a new radiologist contract that’s being developed, operational planning, the creation of a CT program, and guidelines are underway.
So we’re not just going to purchase equipment and then put it in the hospital and not use it. We intend to use it.
I did talk to the officials at the hospital when I had the tour. They’re quite excited about the possibilities of having a CT scanner that could be used to treat people here in Iqaluit and if they come in from the other communities rather than having to send them all the way to Ottawa to get a CT scan. So there are very exciting possibilities in terms of saving time for people having to travel but also cost savings for the Government of Nunavut.
He has already responded to one of my questions that I was going to direct, but I’ll raise it irrespective of the response.
If those of us from Nunavut have to be sent down for a CT scan, we currently have no choice but to go south as there is no CT scanner in Nunavut.
The minister stated that it would lead to cost savings for the government if there was a CT scanner here. That is the same scenario I see.
Would the minister know or have an idea as to the amount of funds we may possibly save in our costs if the CT scanner was here in Iqaluit?
I thank Ms. Ell for her question.
With the preliminary estimates we have, we could save $2 million over a five-year period. At the same time, aside from the monetary benefits by having a CT scanner here, it will give us better diagnostic abilities to provide better medical care for people.
So a CT scanner here may still require a person to go to Ottawa or wherever they have to be sent or may eliminate the need to go to Ottawa and provide the treatment here.
At the same time, we are looking at renovating the hospital up here to provide even more services to the Baffin region. So it’s very exciting. I’m looking very much forward to the future of health in Iqaluit and the Baffin.
Mr. Tapardjuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to welcome the witnesses to the Committee of the Whole.
Last year, there was an announcement about Memorial University where a contract was signed for providing medical services to Nunavummiut.
With respect to the students who will be part of this service provision, how many students from Nunavut will be involved?
I had a great time. I had an opportunity to meet all the people involved in the Nunavut initiative the other night at the Discovery Inn from Memorial University out of Newfoundland, our officials here at the Qikiqtani General Hospital, and a lot of other people.
Again, it’s quite an exciting initiative and it’s an initiative that is funded through the federal government, but it will help us perhaps acquire more physicians in the future.
Currently, the program is in its early days. We have, I believe, one resident from the University of Newfoundland up at the Qikiqtani General Hospital.
Let me raise this other question.
In the past, most people didn’t go for physician or doctoral training, let’s say, from Igloolik.
Are any Inuit included in the internship program where they are working under supervision of a doctor?
Since Inuit will be treated by these interns who are working towards the completion of their doctoral studies, I asked whether or not there will be any Inuit students.
Have any interns completed their work and became doctors due to their work in Nunavut in the past?
I’m unaware myself of an intern program in the past.
The only reason I raised that matter is we have heard of certain cases. As an example, there was a story about an intern who was on a tour and went to Igloolik and did his examinations of patients there.
Since he was only an intern, his examinations resulted in misdiagnoses of patients’ health complaints with no treatment of their health concerns.
It led to one person paying his own way down to the hospital here in Iqaluit for a medical checkup to allay his health concerns.
I don’t think Inuit should just receive trainees’ or interns’ medical assessments. I believe we also require the top health professionals to provide medical treatment and not just be a stepping stone for students in the medical field.
That was why I asked the question.
I have no idea whether there was an intern treating people in Igloolik as I have just heard about it and it may be hearsay, which is why I’m asking about it.
I appreciate Mr. Tapardjuk’s concern.
Mr. Chairman, as I understand, under the NunaFam initiative, interns would work and train at the Qikiqtani General Hospital and as it is an accredited hospital, they would work under the supervision of doctors.
There are not only interns from Memorial University in Newfoundland who would come up.
There could be interns from other medical schools who would come up to work at the Qikiqtani General Hospital, but again, they would be under the supervision of a physician because it’s an accredited hospital.
Mr. Tapardjuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to ensure I understand this clearly.
On another matter, a previous question was raised by my colleague relating to patients who are complaining about health issues and don’t believe a physician’s diagnosis after their appointment.
If they’re just told that it’s a symptom of old age and that all they have to do is to take a Tylenol and they should feel better, where can they turn to?
Who can they register their complaint with? How can they, pun intended, get a second opinion medically? Most people are quite aware of their bodies.
If they feel that a doctor has made a misdiagnosis, what then?
I hope I can be understandable about this, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman, doctors are regularly scheduled to go into the various communities in Nunavut.
If the patient feels that they didn’t receive the proper treatment, they can request a second opinion from a doctor when they visit.
I doubt that this will occur.
Seriously, I don’t think that would matter because once a physician or doctor proclaims that a person is in good health in their assessment, that person is viewed medically as being healthy, even when they believe they’re suffering from a medical ailment.
The appointments for these visits are made by the people working at the health centre.
If your name doesn’t appear on this list, then a person has no ability to see the doctor, even if they want to see the doctor. The nurse may feel that it’s a waste of an appointment, even if you clamour for an appointment.
How can we best fix the system so that there are options?
We also talked about an appeals process and someone mentioned the regional director of operations for health or something to that effect. This avenue has absolutely no use. Some of us have tried to conduct appeals through that process.
It’s just a paper trail.
When we tried to undertake that process, it was just a waste of time, with no results. I believe it requires a review. It is nothing but a bureaucratic exercise in paperwork and it’s almost impossible to complete to its conclusion.
The appeals process that has been introduced to handle these concerns is nothing more than that. People have tried to use it, but with nary a result and it’s basically useless.
You stated that you were conducting a review of the Client Travel Policy and that this review will be completed by the end of March. I certainly hope that this concern is also being addressed as part of the review, Mr. Chairman.
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank Mr. Tapardjuk for his question. I understand his concern that patients sometimes want a second or third opinion.
Most patients know their bodies pretty good. They feel the pain. The doctor might not know that there is pain there, so the patient may request a second opinion.
I do know from my own experience.
One time, because I’m quite adept at Googling, I self-diagnosed myself and went to the health centre. This was years ago. The nurses didn’t believe me, and then the doctor came in and confirmed what my own diagnosis was.
I got it off the Internet and fortunately it wasn’t serious.
Mr. Chairman, the deputy minister has told me that he and the assistant deputy minister are taking these things into consideration and are reviewing. It’s good to have this kind of dialogue in the House because we don’t always hear these things. So it’s a good opportunity to hear the concerns and then our officials can look at them and see how we can address them.
This is a matter that definitely requires further review. It is apparent that the minister is inundated with concerns and problems from all over. During the Baffin mayors’ meeting, some concerns were expressed and I know that your department was presented with these health concerns.
What one has to realize is that the community health centres and the nurses-in-charge all operate differently in our communities. Some communities have very good nurses-in-charge, which is quite enviable, while some of our communities don’t have any options related to situations where the community is in disagreement with the individuals and dislikes the health care provision.
Again, the health professionals protected by the bureaucratic leaders.
The appearance is that the health system turns their back on the patient requiring medical attention in order to protect one of their own employees. This is absolutely ludicrous since the medical people are sent there to provide adequate health care to the people, to treat medical ailments, and to look after the health care of the residents. I know that this will be looked at.
It’s basically a comment.
I would like to raise this last question. The matter is also identified in the capital estimates where the amounts for the medical travel fund have been estimated up to 2014. I cannot recall the response to a prior question about this, but when we’re looking at the medical travel budget estimates for this year, are you expecting this medical travel portion to rise?
This will most likely be my last question for the time being.
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank Mr. Tapardjuk. Could I ask Mr. Tapardjuk just to clarify what page he is on in the business plan?
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Peterson. Mr. Tapardjuk, if you can identify what page you are on.
Mr. Tapardjuk (interpretation): This was when the minister was meeting with the Standing Committee on Oversight of Government Operations and Public Accounts while he was the Minister of Finance. When he was under that portfolio, he also tabled a document about agreements with the federal government with respect to the medical travel fund that will help offset the medical travel costs accrued by the Nunavut government up to 2014.
It seems to me that medical travel is continually rising and that is my reasoning for asking about this matter here. It’s not listed in the portfolio you’re currently holding, but I’m just recalling back to when you held a different portfolio as the Minister of Finance and tabled that document related to the medical travel fund, which would be offered until 2014.
I’m just trying to get more clarification, Mr. Chairman.
I thank Mr. Tapardjuk for the clarification.
Yes, the territorial health initiative sustainability system program was THSSI. We all call it THSSI. It’s the acronym.
It was actually extended by two years until March 31, 2014. It was going to expire at the end of this fiscal year, but with the hard work of our former health minister and our MP, it did get extended. Out of that program, $10.2 million goes to medical travel.
When I was in Victoria at the finance ministers’ meeting in December, all the finance ministers for the three northern territories asked Minister Flaherty if we could get some certainty or guarantee that THSSI funding would be extended permanently because of our, particularly in Nunavut, high travel costs.
We absolutely need funding for travel. But out of the THSSI funding, there’s [also] money for a lot of our public health programs that we deliver in Nunavut and across the north.
So we’re continuing to work on that.
We will continue our dialogue with our MP and with the Minister of Finance for Canada to extend the funding even beyond 2014 and make it more permanent so that we have some certainty and guarantee of the amount of funding we [receive] every year.
I think Mr. Tapardjuk said that that was his last question.
Just as with a flock of sheep, one does not want to be the black sheep of the family. However, while we are on page H-7, we are set for the second or third round of questioning. So I want to remind members that you can write, email, or set up an appointment with the minister or his deputy to ask your additional questions.
If we cannot utilize these other avenues, we always have the chance to direct our questions during our daily question period.
This is just to remind the members of their options when it comes to asking questions.
Mr. Enook, you wanted to be provided more time.
I also thank you for offering me this second chance. I would like to return to the medical travel portion.
I don’t have a whole lot of questions, but I just want further clarification.
First of all, as it’s written down with respect to the medical travel and escort policies, based on No. 2, Mr. Chairman, I will say this phrase in English because I’ll run out of time again by being misunderstood.
Let me read it in English so that I, too, will personally understand it.
It reads, (interpretation ends) “Note: One adult can act as an escort for a group of children when appropriate (e.g. travel for orthodontic procedures) subject to consent being obtained from the relevant parents or guardians.” (interpretation) My comprehension of English isn’t that great, so I would like to get that clarified if I may.
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank Mr. Enook for seeking clarification.
Mr. Chairman, the deputy minister will attempt to clarify that clause.
I don’t have the documents in front of me, but I did hear Member Enook clearly, so let me try and give an example to best explain it. I think that might be the way to do it.
So an example picked is I think an actual live example, before I was deputy here, of patients being brought, I think, from the minister’s region, from the Kitikmeot, to Baffin to get dental services. So in that case, I think there were some young adults or young minors, I guess is a better phrase, or children, let’s say that.
In that case, let’s say there was ten kids, if the parents of all ten kids say, “Yes, they can go with Ms. Voth to Iqaluit,” then that would be an example of that particular situation that Member Enook has described.
I appreciate that clarification of the issue.
I have another matter I want to ask about and I’m not expecting an instantaneous answer today.
I know it is possible to do so data-wise, perhaps with the last decade or perhaps back to the time Nunavut came into being.
I wonder if the minister could agree to my request if I were to provide it. Of the requests that were turned down initially that went through the appeals process, what’s the total number of cases that were successful? Alternatively, how many times has a patient had to undergo this process and what was the end result?
I hope I can be understood.
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank Mr. Enook for the request.
Mr. Chairman, our officials can go back a few years.
I think that would be reasonable, but to go back 10 years, that would just be too onerous and difficult for us.
Let me ask then: can’t you even go back within a five-year period?
That would be acceptable as it would provide an idea. However, I just don’t grasp what you mean by your statement about this request being too onerous.
Is it too onerous because of the vast number of appeal requests?
Is that why it would be too onerous? Is this because of the fact that there are so many appeals?
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank Mr. Enook for his request again.