EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
There was not question there. We will go back to Directorate. -$782,000.
I just wanted to know what the original meaning of the term that the Minister of Finance used, “the best bang for our buck.” What does it really mean?
What is the original meaning of that, Mr. Chairman?
I’ve got to be careful of expressions.
I have lots of expressions. If you only have a dollar, make it stretch as far as you can. If you see something on sale, three apples for a dollar versus two apples for a dollar, get the three apples for a dollar.
It may not be as nutritious, but they will still keep you alive.
I thought it sounded like an inappropriate term to use in a legislature.
I guess it is on the borderline there, so I guess we will try and refrain from using that.
We will go back to the Directorate again here. -$172,000.
Chairman: Intergovernmental Affairs. -$174,000.
Chairman: Devolution. -$180,000. Total Devolution. -$180,000.
Chairman: Total Department. -$526,000.
Chairman: We will move on to page 5. Finance.
Operations and Maintenance. Not Previously Authorized. Centrally Administrated Funds. -$29,000.
Chairman: Comptrollership. -$985,000.
I can recall that these funds are used for monitoring project funding.
Right now, we are having difficulty because of the Nunavut Housing Trust.
We are now seeing more cuts. Is it going to have an impact on the upcoming year? What kind of negative impact will it have in the upcoming year?
As I indicated earlier, the cuts and reductions this year will not affect our programs in this department.
We will go back to Total Comptrollership. -$985,000.
Chairman: Directorate. -$72,000.
Total Financial Management. -$594,000.
Chairman: Internal Audit Services. Total Internal Audit Services. -$20,000.
Total Policy and Planning. -$24,000.
Chairman: Total Department. -$1,724,000.
Chairman: Go to page 6.
Human Resources. Operations and Maintenance.
Directorate. -$95,000.
Chairman: Employee Relations.
Total Employee Relations. -$55,000.
Chairman: Inuit Employment Plan. Total Inuit Employment Plan. -$70,000.
I would like further information on how this cut or reallocation will have an impact on the Inuit Employment Plan.
We are already way behind with this commitment.
Are we going to be taking a step back with this cut?
Mr. Chairman, the information that I have on the Inuit Employment Plan is the savings are coming from surplus positions.
I don’t believe it will have an impact on Inuit employment planning; we will continue to provide that service.
Mr. Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) The program is budgeted for $793,000. So $70,000 of it is surplus funding out of the little program.
Is that what I’m getting?
Is it an additional PY or was it targeted for something else?
The funding for the $70,000 savings is coming out of compensation and benefits for the two vacant positions.
We will go back to Total Inuit Employment Plan. -$70,000.
Chairman: Job Evaluation and Organizational Design. Total Job Evaluation and Organizational Design. -$80,000.
Chairman: Community Operations.
Total Community Operations. -$32,000.
Chairman: Staffing.
Total Staffing. -$35,000.
Chairman: Move on to the next page. Page 7.
Mr. Elliott
On page 7, we’re dealing with $318,000 in terms of training and development.
Could the minister explain what is being cut if anything is being cut? Is there certain training that is not going to be given to the Government of Nunavut employees?
The information I have is the $123,000 is compensation benefits and that was a position that was frozen. There was a cancellation of the Nunavut Public Service Program, $96,000, but it wasn’t being utilized to begin with. There’s another $100,000 for compensation and benefits contributed to a salary surplus from the Sivuliqtiksat interns.
So I guess this goes with one of the questions or one of the concerns I have that continues to go in my mind. You had said that each department was working with 3 percent less and I think Mr. Okalik was alluding to it too.
When we do budget next year, are we going to still be at 3 percent less?
You had said that $90,000 was cut from that one program and it was not being utilized.
My concern is: why am I being asked as an MLA to vote on $90,000, which is just one program but there is probably other programs that aren’t being utilized? Why are we being presented with this in terms of are your budgets realistically being given to us for us to approve?
Mr. Chairman, as I indicated earlier in the past appearances, we’re stressing the importance to departments that they have to start budgeting to actual.
If they’re only going to be at a 65 to 80 percent capacity in their departments, they will budget to actual and then those funds can be utilized for other programs and services.
That message is getting through to our officials. They are working collaboratively.
This exercise was a good exercise for them, as I understand from my deputy minister and talking to some other deputies.
We hope that in the future, departments will not be budgeting for 100 percent of all of the PYs.
The simple fact is, in any given time in a government, you are going to have a vacancy factor and not all positions are going to be staffed.
I’m just throwing numbers out there, but if your five-year history is 70 to 75 percent capacity, then maybe you don’t need that extra 25 percent. It could go into programs and services. We could still function as a government and deliver programs and services.
Let’s use that extra money and direct it into programs and services that will have benefits to our communities, organizations, and departments.
That just brings up my next question.
What guarantees do we have as regular members that you are going to follow through on that or what will you put in place to make sure that that actually happens and each department follows through on that?
He has my assurances and the members have my assurances that as the Department of Finance and as cabinet, the ministers certainly understand the importance of trying to save money and utilize it the best way possible.
I would like to comment that our deputies and other officials are working well together now as a result of this exercise.
They pulled together fairly rapidly and responded to FMB decisions to find the funding. I believe it’s a good exercise.
The reality is we are operating with a finite amount of money and we have to make it go as far as we can.
My Deputy Minister of Finance works very closely with his colleagues. He has regular deputy ministers’ meetings with them and they discuss this initiative and other initiatives quite regularly.
I have been directing the Central Accountability Committee to look throughout government departments to find areas where we can save in terms of travel, contracts, the fees and payments of casual employment, a whole range of things, and they were doing that even prior to this issue arising in the hopes that we would be prepared for next year, depending on what the Territorial Formula Financing Agreement with Minister Flaherty will provide us with our level of funding.
The simple fact of the matter is that there is a demand and an expectation out there that the government be more accountable.
This whole exercise that we have gone through in the last few days on the sole source contracts and other contracts has highlighted the importance of using our money wisely.
That message is getting there.
It’s not going to happen overnight, but I think we’re making progress.
I know my deputy minister, if he wishes, he may be able to provide some additional comments to Member Elliott on what’s happening at the official’s level with respect to ensuring that departments hold the line and be more efficient and effective in terms of utilizing their budgets.
Mr. Ma, would you like to make some comments?
I think the minister is quite correct.
I think this exercise has been a very productive one for departments.
I think it has forced all of us to look at ways in terms of running our departments more productively. Certainly, it changes the way we do some of our business in some departments.
As the minister indicated, even before this exercise began, he had directed me, as the Chairperson of the Central Accountability Committee, to look at ways to reduce expenditures and be more efficient across government.
So I think, perhaps, he had some foresight that I didn’t have. I don’t know, but I think that has been a good exercise.
Obviously, we would like departments to continue to move towards the path of budgeting to actual.
The minister has indicated on a number of occasions what we had done in the last fiscal year when we galloped $2 million to the Department of Human Resources for the Training and Development Fund.
I think that’s been a great initiative.
I think some of my colleagues have realized that there is perhaps some, I don’t want to say staff, but there is some slack in their budgets that they can work on.
One thing that maybe we haven’t mentioned is because of the collective agreement process, we automatically adjust departments based on targets every year.
So they get more money into the compensation and benefits and that’s why we think there is some room to budget to actual.
This has been bit of a wake up call to us as managers of departments, but I am confident in my colleagues, as a management team, that we will make this thing happen.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Ma. We will now go back to page 7 here. Human Resources. Operations and Maintenance.
Not Previously Authorized. Training and Development. Total Training and Development. -$318,000.
Chairman: Total Department. -$685,000.
Chairman: Move on to page 8. Justice.
Operations and Maintenance. Not Previously Authorized. Community Justice. -$200,000.
I would like to know what kind of impacts this will have on the department.
The main impacts on this funding will come from compensation and benefits of $675,000.
We are going to delay staffing of some positions that are already currently vacant.
If there are any resignations, we will temporarily delay hiring.
We are going to scrutinize areas of travel, contract services, and fees and payments.
I seem to remember that the staff end up monitoring the communities.
It seems as though it should be the officers. They need officers in the communities for the inmates if they cannot get a guard.
So I would like to get clarification on that.
Hon. Keith Peterson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank Mr. Okalik for that good question.
Mr. Chairman, under Corrections, there’s $175,000, so there isn’t a major impact on compensations and benefits there.
Mr. Okalik: If memory serves, these community justice budgets address probation and in making sure that there is an alternative to putting people in jail, so these are programs that keep people out of jail.
So if we’re cutting there, then we’re losing one of the alternatives to our already overflowing jail system.
So I would like to know how the $200,000 cut for community justice programs will be implemented. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman, even before this whole thing occurred, I was pressing my officials to find funds internally to fund community corrections officers. We are funding two this year internally, but I was hoping that we could fund some more.
I had made a commitment to my colleague, Minister Curley, to put community corrections out there and put more resources into the communities in terms of resources to the justice committees.
Through this exercise, I have seen that it’s possible and there’s going to be minimal impact on our current programs and services.
I will be directing my officials to keep sharpening their pencils so that we can find the slack within the department to fund internally and hopefully put some more corrections officers out there, perhaps help the RCMP with some public service employees that members have asked us to assist them with, and also put more resources into FAIA and community justice committees.
Because this exercise won’t happen this year, I’m pretty confident that it could happen next year.
Mr. Okalik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) So could I get an explanation on the $200,000? What’s happening on this?
What’s being cut?
That’s the briefing note I have. It indicates that it’s compensation and benefits.
And that would be related to staffing if there are vacancies in the department and positions where compensations and benefits are not required for those PYs.
Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Peterson and Mr. Okalik.
We will go back to Justice.
Total Community Justice. -$200,000.
Chairman: Not Previously Authorized.
Total Corrections. -$1,225,000.
What is this funding cut for?
I would like to find out where they are going to make reductions.
The information I have is $175,000 would be compensation and benefits and $1,050,000 would be other expenses.
I believe that would be related to travel, contract services, and fees and payments.
What travel costs $1 million annually? Where are they actually travelling?
I don’t believe it is all travel.
Like I said, it’s fees and payments, travel, and contract services.
There is a requirement to escort prisoners between facilities whether they are north and south and over to the west.
Mr. Okalik (interpretation): It is fine for the time being.
Do I understand correctly that $1.25 million is there due solely to the vacant PYs?
What percentage of the $1.2 million is due to the vacant positions?
The total for the vacant positions would be $1,225,000.
As I understand, that slippage is due to vacancies of positions, delayed staffing, some travel, and compensation and benefits.
I understand from Mr. Okalik’s question, the answer was some are in travel, in escorting the prisoners to the south or to the west, and vacant positions. My question is: how much of that is from the vacant positions?
If I understand Mr. Arvaluk, $175,000 of compensation and benefits is linked to these positions.
We will go back to Corrections.
Chairman: Directorate. Total Directorate. -$127,000.
Chairman: Law Enforcement. Total Law Enforcement. -$415,000.
Chairman: Lawyer Support Services. Total Lawyer Support Services. -$175,000.
Chairman: Registries and Court Services. Total Registries and Court Services. -$200,000.
Chairman: Total Department. -$2,342,000.
Chairman: Move on to page 9. Culture, Language, Elders and Youth. Operations and Maintenance.
Not Previously Authorized. Heritage. -$30,000.
Chairman: Directorate. Total Directorate. -$33,000.
Chairman: Elders and Youth. Total Elders and Youth. -$9,000.
Chairman: Oh boy, here we go. Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit.
Chairman: Total. -$370,000.
Do you Agree?
Chairman: Total Official Languages. -$138,000. Do you agree?
Chairman: Sports and Recreation. Total Sports and Recreation. -$60,000.
Chairman: We will go to Culture, Language, Elders and Youth. Operations and Maintenance.
Not Previously Authorized. Oh boy. Taiguusiliuqtiit. -$75,000.
We need to process this through legislation, so I would like to get clarification as to what kind of impact it will have.
The information I have is $25,000 would be scaled back on the purchase of materials and supplies, another $25,000 reduction in the purchase of services budget, and then they would scale back $25,000 on contract services, for a net contribution of $75,000.
I don’t have any other names here. Total Department. -$715,000.
Chairman: We will move on to page 11. Education. Operations and Maintenance.
Not Previously Authorized. Directorate. Total Directorate. -$241,000.
I would like to know what kind of impact it will have on this program, especially when we are trying to work on the new legislation or to implement the legislation. I would like to know what is going to be happening and what kind of impact it will have.
We recognize that the Department of Education made a very valuable contribution budgeting to actual in the past plus they have mandatory legislative programming that directly benefits Nunavummiut.
So they are actually contributing the full 3 percent and we appreciate the contribution that they are contributing.
The biggest reduction will be travel restrictions. There are restrictions on the purchase of materials and supplies of $577,000 and then the exercise of restrictions on the use of other O&M maintenance budget items of $674,000.
I remember that if any member is going to be the lead of legislation, they need to be trained on the new legislation.
I would like to know if there has been adequate training to make sure that this legislation is understood. I thought that this $241,000 was going to be used for that.
I would like to know what kind of impacts this exercise will have.
I thank Mr. Okalik for the question.
It is an important question.
We directed the officials to work towards maintaining the existing programs and services and initiatives, that was our priority, and to look for savings in areas such as travel and unfunded positions.
I don’t know if I can give any assurances to Mr. Okalik as the Minister of Finance as his concern is unwarranted. Perhaps the Minister of Education could answer his question directly.
My colleague’s question as to what kind of impact it will have on funding under the new Education Act, it will not have much negative impact.
However, as the minister stated, $1,441,000 is being cut back on travel for all staff, DEAs, and other travel.
All DEAs were going to hold a meeting here this coming fall to do a workshop and training on the Act, but we will not be able to go through with that.
This is the biggest impact it will have on the Education Act.
There will also be an impact on the staff in the schools that we need to provide DEAs.
We will not be able to provide DEAs support now within this fiscal year.
The cutback for the Department of Education is the smallest amount of all other departments because we need to provide educational services to the public.
Mr. Chairman, those are the impacts it will have on the new Education Act.
The impacts will be on the training of the stakeholders on the new legislation and also education authorities’ travel, Mr. Chairman.
I am very sorry to hear that.
We do want to implement any kind of new legislation and we would like to see it done properly and training provided.
If they are not going to be providing travel, how are you going to be training the DEAs so that the policy will be consistent all over Nunavut?
What preparations are you making?
If they are not going to be getting the DEAs together, perhaps they can provide information to the DEAs by way of correspondence so that they can utilize the Act properly.
Yes, we are seriously taking action on these things to do our part in making cuts to pay for the shortfall in funding.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to tell my colleagues that we are looking at other options.
We are working hard to inform and consult with the DEAs on their new roles and mandates, including others within the new Education Act. We will implement the Act, but training will be slowed down at this time.
We are looking at other options as to how we can provide more information to the DEAs especially.
We will be reducing travel, but we are looking at other options as to how we can consult with and inform the DEAs, Mr. Chairman.
Education is very important and it is an issue dear to my heart and that will not disappear.
Yes, I will want to get further updates as we do not wish to be in the same situation in the future. I will want to learn how to deal with these reductions and how we can operate more efficiently in the future.
Mr. Tapardjuk, I guess it’s just a comment there.
We will go back to the Total Directorate. -$241,000.
Chairman: Policy and Planning. Total Policy and Planning. -$12,000.
Chairman: Corporate Services. Total Corporate Services. -$194,000.
Chairman: Income Support Headquarters. Total Income Support Headquarters. -$10,000.
Chairman: Adult Learning and Post-Secondary Services. Total Adult Learning and Post-Secondary Services.
I wish to ask what kind of cuts there is going to be within the Adult Learning and Post-Secondary Services.
I believe the areas affected there are travel, materials and supplies, and purchase services and it’s related to the FANS database redesign that the Department of Education is working on.
I don’t understand that response at all. I would, however, like to be made aware of its details. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The information I have just indicates that this is related to Arviat, $30,000, it’s very fine print, $22,000 for travel, $30,000 for travel, $20,000 for materials and supplies, $200,000 for purchase services, and $350,000 for contract services.
It simply says that the FANS database redesign is delayed.
We will go back to Total Adult Learning and Post-Secondary Services. -$622,000. Do you agree?
Mr. Elliott: I have questions on Item 6, Mr. Chairman. The $1 million, I’m just curious to find out what services are not being provided or whether there are any of the initiatives that are on hold for the next year.
There is travel; it’s $256,000 that has to be eliminated for working groups and new initiatives for student assessment.
Assessment and evaluation development, that’s $179,000, that’s a reduction in assessment work. Travel for Arviat working group meetings, that’s $205,000.
Some curriculum project work of $26,000 in Arviat. $64,000 is travel in Iqaluit and that’s related to K-6, Curriculum and Competency Team.
So it looks like most of it is for travel, but I guess to answer my question on the other end, it sounded like they were having travel for people from within the communities to come to do working groups and evaluations.
It was read kind of fast, so I didn’t catch everything that he said. Is this going to affect any types of documents that were going to be done over the next year or is it going to delay any evaluations or projects for a year?
The briefing that we have says that the restrictions in the area of curriculum and school services may hinder the development.
So I’m hopeful that it doesn’t.
It follows along the lines of what Mr. Okalik was saying. That department is very important and we’re hoping that it doesn’t hinder the development. The minister seems to be confident that they’re going to look at internally how they can ensure that the work gets done.
Is it possible to have the minister continue to read whatever he was reading?
He said, “… may hinder the development,” and then there are other words after that, but development of what, development of a program that’s going to be offered to the communities or whatnot?
I think Minister Tapardjuk already mentioned it. It may hinder the development of a bilingual education model as mandated by the Education Act and the Inuit Language Protection Act.
So it has already come up as an issue in the line of questioning.
All of this travel of over $1 million was for meetings and the implementation of the new Languages Acts.
I can’t say with certainty, but a portion of it for sure. I don’t have the official level of detail for what all of the travel is for, but a portion of it is related to those Acts.
Does Minister Tapardjuk have anything to add in terms of the scope and the detail of what Mr. Peterson was saying?
Usually, the largest amount allotted is for travel in the Department of Education.
The schools have to be visited and we provide lots of support activities within our department.
Right now, it’s obvious that we can use other means of communication, like email and telephones, instead of using air travel.
The deputy minister has to attend meetings, such as the provincial/territorial meetings, and the travel is going to be used just for necessary travel.
It is going to have an impact on travel and in providing support, but I believe that we can use alternative methods to get the work done.
We will see how it’s going to impact our department. However, Mr. Chairman, I can’t say it’s not going to have an impact; it will definitely have an impact, particularly on travel within our department. We do not see this as a barrier and we can look at alternative means to get our work done.
Mr. Okalik: Mr. Chairman, I recognize the clock and move to make progress. (interpretation) Thank you.
Your committee has been considering Bills 28, 30, and 31 and would like to report that Bill 28 and 30 are immediately ready for third reading.
There is a motion on the floor. Is there a seconder? Mr. Rumbolt.