EdinburghNLP/nunavut-hansard-plusplus huggingface dataset:
We know that some people own their own SPOT devices and the people who use them are increasing. Most of the time, the search and rescue parties don’t have to search for them. They just go directly to where the coordinates were recorded.
I think that we sent them to the communities and people are continually purchasing them. We don’t want people to get lost. When you are a hunter, you don’t want your snowmobile to break down.
When the hunters use the SPOT devices, they are able to be picked up sooner.
I believe that the usage is increasing.
I want to add, Mr. Chairman, out of the 53 people who used the SPOT devices, there were some unfortunate incidents. There were six or seven SPOT devices that were activated just to see if a search and rescue party would come and look for them.
So looking at that, it’s unfortunate for the search and rescue parties and also for the search and rescue personnel. Their lives might be in danger when they’re responding to people just pressing these devices to test.
Some of the SPOT devices were accidentally activated. So there are some instances and there are also seven as well, but they were accidentally activated.
SPOT devices were also being activated deliberately. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Kusugak. Mr. Enook.
Mr. Enook (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also thank Mr. Minister for his response.
The issue he elaborated on is definitely a cause for concern.
I think we all know that the search and rescue personnel who conduct searches sometimes forget their own safety simply due to their desire to assist, and some searchers will abandon their own safety in their quest to find the person still alive and to offer assistance. Even when the situation seems dire, they will continue to search.
A big concern of mine that the minister spoke to is that certain people activate their SPOT devices solely to see if it would work.
In my opinion, they should be stopped immediately. How can we ensure no one frivolously activates their devices? The search parties undergo tremendous stress and hardship in fulfilling their duties and I prefer that their dedication not be tarnished by these hunters who insist on testing their devices.
Do we have any legislation in place, for example, if we find that a person had been just testing their device to check on the rescue party’s response time? Do we have any laws or consequences for these types of acts? I am not sure how, but perhaps there should be a fine.
To say it in English, “the consequences” of activating the SPOT devices in jest as they aren’t toys to play with. Can you provide some background on these concerns? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Enook. Minister Kusugak.
Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What I can relate to Mr. Enook is that once people started using these SPOT devices, we hadn’t thought of anyone contemplating a testing of the devices.
However, it was only after this happened that our EMO staff sat down with legal staff to review this issue and what type of consequences would befall anyone frivolously activating the devices. We require a written policy for these situations and we’re moving towards drafting up a policy.
Mr. Rumbolt: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My questions will be along the same lines as Mr. Enook’s with the use of SPOT devices. In the minister’s opening comments, he stated, “We continue our efforts to promote the use of SPOT devices and increase awareness of safety preparedness measures for all individuals going out on the land or water.”
Can the minister tell us what his department is doing to promote the use of SPOT more in our communities?
Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Our department is working with the local search and rescue community and the HTOs to promote the use of the SPOT devices that our department has forwarded to the municipalities.
Some are there to be used by the searchers and some are there to be taken free of charge and used by the local hunters who go out.
We continue to promote that and it’s taking effect.
If I may, Mr. Chairman, I’ll say that when the polar bear hunting season was opened in Rankin Inlet, people were told that if they’re going to go polar bear hunting, they should take a SPOT device and that they are available at the local HTO. We also did that when the narwhal hunting season was opened. So there’s that kind of promotion happening.
Our department continues to support that.
We are looking at ways to see how we could promote personal purchase of these goods and seeing how we can maybe help in trying to find ways to be able to help them in being able to activate and keep up with the activation charges.
We’re still looking at that avenue because it is a lot cheaper to go and retrieve someone instead of searching for them.
I’m just wondering if the number of SPOT devices that were issued to municipalities is adequate to suffice for the communities or if there is a need for more SPOT devices for our municipalities.
I’m one who hopes that we don’t have enough SPOT devices out there.
As the incall increases from municipalities that people are taking all the devices out or they are being used heavily, it would be good news for us.
We are currently looking at seeing if we should be purchasing more devices to make available to hunters in the communities in conjunction with trying to figure out if we should maybe have people purchase their own and we would somehow find a way to help them make the SPOT device activations.
So we are doing both of them at the same time. We are looking into that.
Under page J-7, Branch Summary, I wanted to briefly speak about emergency preparedness.
I think it’s critical at this point that we, in our communities, especially small communities, are well prepared for any event of a disaster happening. This is not a small task.
It is my understanding that this is a joint emergency preparedness program, which means territories, provinces, and their federal counterparts.
I have a document here, the Nunavut Emergency Management Annual Report 2011-12, tabled on No. 271 – 3(3).
This document was tabled on November 1, 2012.
On page 7, under the heading of Municipal Emergency Response Plan Status as of March 31, 2012, Kugaaruk’s emergency preparedness is still pending. I’m wondering if that’s still the case.
Also, Pond Inlet, Chesterfield Inlet, and Pangnirtung are still pending.
Mr. Chairman, as small territory, there are times when we are not able to fund our own programs, especially in the event of a disaster.
Under Public Safety Canada, if we are not able to meet the disaster by way of funding it, the federal government, under the counsel of the Emergency Measures Organization, is able to jointly fund in the event of an emergency.
If my understanding is correct, Mr. Chairman, if we are not prepared, will the federal counterpart continue to provide funding for enhancement to emergency preparedness in Nunavut?
I think that if we’re not prepared, the funding that we have from the federal government could be seriously affected.
(interpretation) Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the minister or his deputy minister or officials: today, in February 2013, what’s the status of the municipal emergency response plans?
Do all the hamlets have an emergency response plan now in place?
They’re all completed.
From what I mentioned, the Canadian Council of Emergency Management Organizations, through Public Safety Canada, are we still going to be receiving funding from them? Does it seem like they will be continuing to fund this?
Yes, the funding that we receive will stay the same.
Since he answered my question, I don’t have any further questions.
Ms. Ugyuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I have some questions for the minister concerning search and rescue in Nunavut.
For the benefit of Nunavummiut who are following our proceedings today, can the minister or his officials outline the process by which decisions are taken to assigning air support when searches are ongoing?
When there’s an emergency search, all the search activities are consistent.
They talk to the communities. They talk to search and rescue and the RCMP. We listen to what the community decides, along with our search and rescue employees at CGS, and that’s how we work together.
Ms. Ugyuk: Qujannamiik, Mr. Chairman.
I would like to ask again: which decisions are taken to assigning air support when searches are going on? Is it the RCMP?
Is it CGS? Is it search and rescue?
There have been times that they were waiting for each other or an answer wasn’t given.
So I would like for him to be very detailed. It’s a simple question. Who assigns air support?
I was very clear. I’ll be very clear again, this time in English.
Mr. Chairman, in terms of seeking support from aircraft in doing the search, that decision is made with the local search and rescue committee, the local RCMP, and the search and rescue employees within CGS.
That decision is not an easy one. There are many factors that go into deciding at what time an airplane becomes available or usable at any given time and location.
That decision is made collectively by the three parties, if I may use the term loosely, by the local search and rescue people, in consultation with the RCMP and our emergency measures office.
The decision is made if an aircraft is needed. Sometimes an aircraft is needed, but at the time it is called for, there might not be enough daylight.
They may not be able to get an aircraft available immediately at that time. Weather plays a very big role in being able to use an aircraft. It depends on many of those combinations, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Ugyuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr Chairman. (interpretation ends) Can the minister outline what aircraft assets are available for searches in the three regions of Nunavut?
Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
Within our government, we don’t have airplanes specifically for searching.
Often, it becomes availability of aircraft within the area or region or territory. We don’t have a specific aircraft available to us at any given time.
Ms. Ugyuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr Chairman. (interpretation ends) If that’s the case and if a search is going on in Taloyoak or Gjoa Haven or in the Kitikmeot area, is there an aircraft in the Kitikmeot that is readily available to service the Kitikmeot for searching if one was called for?
Mr. Chairman, unfortunately, there isn’t any aircraft readily available anywhere, not just in the Kitikmeot but in any community at any given time.
As I said, it relies heavily on availability of aircraft and location. Sometimes the planes aren’t readily available if they’re doing normal business.
We often have to scramble to try to find aircraft in any region.
Ms. Ugyuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) Thank you, minister.
I watched a documentary on the RCMP planes doing a search. Can that be one of the assets that can search for missing people if they’re part of the searching?
Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When it comes to air searching, the searchers in the community, like I said, the RCMP, the searchers, and our emergency measures office seek any and all aircraft available at any given time.
If the RCMP plane was available and if it was there, then I’m sure they would not hesitate to let us use it.
If any aircraft are available anywhere at any time, they are often more than happy to help out in a search.
Ms. Ugyuk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) As you know, I was asking questions today to the Premier about search and rescue in the Arctic. From her responses, it seems like a long way from getting aircraft assets for search in Nunavut or in the Arctic.
In our region, we’ve had some fatal searches, people frozen or not found.
We have struggled to get aircraft support in the Kitikmeot for searches.
I think it needs to be looked into more in detail to serve all Nunavummiut.
It doesn’t have to be a designated aircraft, but some kind of an agreement with the airlines or RCMP planes while we don’t have search and rescue in the Arctic.
I think every life is valuable.
It’s hard when you come from a community where people froze to death because we weren’t able to find them. The searchers work hard to find missing people. We need to do the best possible thing to assist searchers.
Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank Ms. Ugyuk for the questioning.
This is an issue not just in the Kitikmeot; it’s even an issue in communities like Iqaluit and Rankin Inlet, where we have many airplanes that fly through our airports every day.
It was unfortunate, over the Christmas too, we had a person who got lost in Rankin Inlet and died very tragically. I mean every death is tragic when they’re lost.
There is no guarantee that an airplane would find anybody. Let me put it this way: they have a very low success rate in terms of finding. They do find people and we appreciate that very much.
We appreciate the searchers out there. They risk their lives to save those who didn’t make it home for one reason or another.
Our department fully understands where Ms. Ugyuk is coming from.
We do our best to try to get aircraft regardless of where they are. There is no less effort to get an aircraft to the Kitikmeot than anywhere else.
We do our best, and I commend our departmental staff who do this and the local search and rescue and the RCMP, who work through these very trying times to try to find the lost people out there. I commend them for it.
It’s just one thing that we don’t have any means of knowing where aircraft are available at any given time. It’s a very stressful and hard situation regardless of where the search is.
I thank the minister for his responses. (interpretation ends) The document showed that where the RCMP was used, they didn’t have a heat sensor or a body sensor.
Can the department look at getting one of those sensors when they’re searching through air? I can’t remember what they’re called, but if you look through a binocular, you could see orange or something if there’s heat.
If you can help me on that.
If I can reiterate, we use any aircraft that is available to do searches. I don’t know if it would be feasible to take on a project. I don’t know any particulars about installing heat-sensing equipment on aircraft.
I can’t respond to that, Mr. Chairman. We use any aircraft at any given time when possible.
Chairman (interpretation): Thank you, Minister Kusugak. Mr. Ningeongan.
We’re under Protection Services. There are some questions that have been raised and I would like to get some clarification. The airlines have to be notified for so many hours, which has been a problem.
Is there anything done to make this more efficient? That’s the first question I would like to ask. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank Mr. Ningeongan for asking the question.
I do not know any airlines stating that they cannot do search and rescue. As I said, there are different types of searches.
We have to follow the weather conditions and other conditions when there’s a search and rescue. Sometimes we might need an airplane right away. There’s nothing that I have heard that they need so many hours of notification, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Ningeongan (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This problem I referred to earlier has caused issues in the past. I brought it up as a question only because I wanted to know.
This other matter which affects smaller communities in particular is searches via water. Although some people aren’t lost, if their motor dies or they can’t start their motor, this can cause hardship to some families when their family members go through those difficulties.
Some communities have been informed that in those cases, the family is responsible to assist them.
Some families may not have an extra boat. We have faced this problem before in Coral Harbour. I doubt that this is part of the discussion, Mr. Chairman, but I wanted to better understand the background.
At least in Coral Harbour, we have seen those cases. This can also occur when a hunter purchases a boat from another community and faces difficulty on the trip. They can’t ask for assistance from their relatives, and then they are faced with the predicament of calling the search and rescue personnel.
Has the department put any thought towards these types of situations, especially marine rescues, where the parties can’t escape to sheltered coves as they can also face dangers in open water?
I wonder if the department has looked at that situation in their review of the issues to date and I would like to get clarification on it.
Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That’s a good question. They’re all good questions on emergency issues.
According to the example that he used, if the local search and rescue is unsure as to what to do, they usually call CGS officials and we can assist them. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Oshutapik (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. All the communities in Nunavut have concerns on search and rescue and they have appreciated the assistance that they received from CGS, but their funding is not increasing.
There’s a committee and they run the search and rescue. They tried to raise some funds, but the funds that we received is usually not enough and this is being felt by most of the communities, which we hear about.
We have to use our own equipment to conduct a search and rescue, whether it’s winter or summer. We appreciate the funds that we receive. You don’t have the equipment available, so we have to use our own equipment to do the search and rescue.
We do use our equipment to go hunting to get food and they break down.
What I would like to say is, as we heard from the Premier, that they are working with the federal government.
My question is: how much do you work with them in regard to emergency responses? Are you working with the federal government?
I will have further questions.
I just want to make a comment on Mr. Oshutapik’s question.
We help out the search and rescue. If an individual volunteers to go do a search and rescue, we usually help out, for instance, whether they need to replace a broken belt or something along those lines, if they are using their own equipment to search for an individual.
The Premier stated that she is working with the Prime Minister in regard to search and rescue.
If individuals who volunteer can state that they use their own equipment, we can help them out, but this is being done by the Premier.
However, we still talk to each other about the replacement of personal equipment.
I’m pretty sure that this will eventually come to your department.
I just want to make sure that you are respected because we really need that sort of help.
We need help from anybody when we are doing search and rescue and those people who volunteer to search using their own equipment and their own funds, including the aircraft that help cover a lot more landmass. Sometimes it’s unfortunate that we cannot find those people who are lost.
It seems like it has been the policy of the government departments how long the searches should last, even though it’s the federal government’s responsibility.
Is there anything in writing whereby if an individual is not found by the government, the federal government has to take the searchers’ place?
Even though there is not enough funding, search and rescue parties usually just go out there to try to find those individuals who are lost. Even though some of them provide assistance, is there someone else who can take over? Due to life being precious, people volunteer.
The question that I had was: after how long can you give up searching? Is there anything in writing whereby it says that we haven’t found them and this is how long we can search for them?
I don’t think there is anything written down there. We try to help out search and rescue as long as they’re searching for someone.
As long as no one gives up, the department tries to help them as much as possible.
It has been great, actually, hearing all the discussion about search and rescue.
I wanted to touch up on some of the other protective services that the department is responsible for and, in particular, in terms of human resources in dealing with O&M.
I know we passed the legislation for the Nunavut Building Code.
I believe there were three positions that were supposed to be attached to that. I can’t remember exactly. In terms of territorial building inspectors and whatnot, do we have that sort of structure in place?
If you would allow, Mr. Chairman, my deputy, Mr. Green, to respond to that.
CGS is now in the process to issue a competition to hire a building code advisor. Once the building code advisor is recruited, this person will then be responsible for the development of regulations and, from there, will determine what resources that we would need to implement the building code.
At this point in time, we’re just in the recruitment stage for the building code advisor.
So at this time, in terms of the piece of legislation that we passed with the Nunavut Building Code, I believe, when we had the discussions for that, we were told that the department and the government follow the Canadian codes for building.
Are we following the national code still until these technical people are hired or what’s the transition of this?
Yes, we will follow the building codes.
Just so I understand the process, who would be following it? At this time, you would have a personal homeowner who is building a house.
I’m assuming, as the house is being built, a building inspector has to come and do different stages to make sure that it’s built correctly to code. I imagine the Nunavut Housing Corporation, with some of the houses that it is building in Arviat and whatnot, would have to do that as well. Do we have the staff to accommodate that?
Everybody who builds a building, homeowner, or contractor has to follow the building code in construction or whatever they might be building, Mr Chairman.
We’re hopeful that we will have adequate staffing when it comes time to implementing it.
I admit that I’m not up on building codes and stuff like that. If I’m building a house, somebody comes in from outside of the community.
I know we did end up talking about and it was discussed that Iqaluit would be the only community that would probably have a building inspector who was hired because of the amount of construction.
I’m just wondering: what happens when that occurs in the smaller communities?
At the time when it becomes required to do those, there will be people doing that, but it’s not a requirement at present.
Mr. Elliott: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
So if I was to start construction this summer on a house in Arctic Bay, I would not have to have a building inspector come and inspect the work that is being done by a contractor.
Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Mr. Chairman, I believe that if Mr. Elliott decides to build a house this summer in Rankin Inlet or Resolute Bay, he will be required to have a building permit.
I don’t know if that answered my question because I said “building inspector,” not building permit.  I will go on to another topic in terms of inspections.
As far as I know, there are only a few elevators across the territory.
I was wondering if the minister could explain in terms of protective services. It does talk about doing inspections such as that. What’s the status of inspection of elevators across the territory?
Maybe you could clarify the status of the elevators in Nunavut in terms of inspections or if they work. Mr. Chairman, if you could specify that.
It’s my understanding that for elevators at the Frobisher Inn, Capital Suites, the hospital, and a few other locations, and, I believe, the Sivummut Building, which is a government building, all of those have to be inspected.
I don’t believe that it is on an annual basis, but if you read the little certificate that’s in the elevator, it says they should be. At times, they’re outdated. I haven’t ridden an elevator lately because I’m trying to walk the stairs and get some exercise, so I haven’t checked it lately.