bet · GS01UU10 · 2005-04-26 00:00:00 — What we do have both in and in Chisinau is what we calla Tacis branch office. It is an entity that is run by an EU official asa technical assistance office. The major bulk of activities of Commissiondelegations in third countries are related to assistance. In , as I mentioned earlier, we have unfortunately avery limited scope of assistance. The question of whether we want toopen a delegation is obviously one of the questions that will appear inthe future for . It is definitely on the table, and I understandthere is a firm intention of opening a delegation very soon. There again,yes - it is a budgetary question also.Urban (): Why do we have one in if it is a budgetaryquestion? I am interested to know.Karsten Mecklenburg: I cannot answer that question. I am sure there isa representative of the Swedish Foreign Ministry who will be aware ofsimilar issues, or let's take for instance. There was a difficultsituation before taking up the Presidency of the EU having to close itsrepresentation in completely unrelated of its relation with ,which was entirely related to internal foreign ministry organizationand budgetary questions of representations. I cannot assess that. I amsure is an important country also, but I can only speak for Moldovahere.Lotta N (): I would like to ask two short questions - one toMr. Tarasyuk and one to Mr. Uritu.Concerning , I would like to know whether it is a shared visionbetween both democratic forces and other forces to join NATO.Mr. Uritu, if possible I would like you to expand the problem oftrafficking a bit. I know that you have a national action plan since anumber of years, and I would like to know whether you think the situationhas improved and what that action plan actually includes. Which measuresare there in that plan?Boris Tarasyuk: About NATO and the attitudes of different politicalforces in towards membership I can say that there are politicalforces in who are strongly opposing NATO membership. These arethe Communists, for obvious reasons, and the Socialists. The coalitionof is not very clear about this issue. At the sametime the largest political coalition Our is in favour of NATOmembership. The majority of the political parties belonging to thepro-ruling majority are in favour of NATO membership.If one judge and look at this issue through the voting by differentpolitical parties in the Parliament I must say that in November 2002for the first time in 's modern history the Parliament has votedin favour of NATO membership. 263 votes out of 450 were in favour.If you look at the public opinion polls you will find that there ismuch more support for EU membership, around . Those in favour ofNATO membership are half of that, around 30 %.Stefan Uritu: About trafficking in we can discuss two aspects.In it is controlled by authorities and through theregions controlled by separatists. If we analyze the trafficking at thestart of the action plan we can say that in controlled territorysome action is improved. But we have a monopoly of these questions. Wehave a specialized in the , and in my opinionthis can stimulate corruption. When these questions are under controlof different structures corruption may be made more impossible.Speaking about Transnistria it is still not controlled. A lot of agenciesgive documents for trafficking under Russian passports. This territoryis still not controlled. That is the present situation.In my opinion I fully agree with . The population shouldhave a future and a promise. If Union will give a clearmessage about integration in the future of maybe the Transnistriaregion will be integrated to with less force.Rosita Runegrund (kd): I have a question to , to andmaybe also to . As far as I can see for exemple in thereare no women at all in the Government, and in parliament there are only23 women of totally 449 members.My question is: What is the situation for the women regarding workingin parliament, in the NGO's and in the party system in your countries?Here in we have seen that when the figures raise and when thereare more women in parliament the issues change.Cecilia Wigström (fp): Would you like to have that question answered byall three countries?Rosita Runegrund (kd): Yes, please.Boris Tarasyuk: Thank you for your question. It is a very adequate one.In the case of the Ukrainan Parliament I think that the representationof women is inadequate. We have to look for the root causes of thisphenomenon, but certainly this does not reflect the role of women inUkrainian society. Usually they are highly respected. I think that wehave to prepare a different programme to increase the opportunities forwomen to enter political life.As to political parties and different NGO's we have numerous NGO's inUkraine. One of those was lead by a first lady, and it was running forthe election of parliament as a women's organization, but it failed. Wehave dozens of different women's NGO's caring about equal rights.As to work opportunities, I think that more and more women are beinginvolved in non-traditional sectors of Ukrainian economy like managers,bankers and so on and so forth. With the time coming the opportunitiesand the representation of women are being changed.Kerstin Zimmer: First of all I would say that this low representationof women in parliament also has to do with the character of the parliament.Half of the people are elected in single-mandate districts, and if youhave a look at who these people are you will find that they are mainlybusiness people. In the business sector, especially in high positions,you find very few women. There is also really more or less a powerstruggle in parliament, in my opinion. Somehow women are simply kind ofleft out of that power struggle. It is not, or very , about issueson what is dealt with in parliament - it is about power. This is maybesome kind of an answer.But I have the impression that in the NGO sector it is really different.You will find a lot more women there, especially in organizations thatare financed from abroad, and basically women's organizations.For my research I have made a lot of interviews in Donetsk, and in theadministration I only had two women out of altogether 60 interviews,whereas in the NGO sector it is very different. There you have 10-20 %women.Stefan Uritu: At a first look you could say that this problem in Moldovais solved, if you compare with the previous period. Now, in a differentstate structure, we have more women than before. The chief of Parliament,the chief of the and different vice ministers arewomen. That can be looked upon as good. It is usual for a Communistparty - also in the Soviet time we had a lot of situations like this -that a certain place should be only for women or for a special age. Butthey don't have any possibility to influence politically and to promoteself confidence. In this sense maybe you should analyze women in economy.In the committee we have a lot of complaints about arrests of womenwho are heads in the economic agencies and who refuse to collaborate orto support the Communist party in the elections. This is a problem,because the Communist party support only the women who work to gain it.Jaroslav Romanchuk: I have two interesting observations. We have quitea wide representation of women in Belarusian opposition politics. Bothwomen and men politicians were ousted from the parliament in the sameway. They are treated without any sex discrimination.At the same time I have an interesting observation about women in power.We have just one man, and they can be delusioned that this just is amale dominated society. At the same time the chair of the leading savingsbank is a woman and we have a chairwoman of the Central Election Committee.We also have a chairwoman of the commercial branch of presidentialadministration. We have a woman as Minister of Health and Care who isvery close to President . We have an interesting circle ofwomen who were promoted to very high positions in the state management.There is an opinion in the Belarusian society that if you promotesomebody from let's say the level of small business to the level ofrunning the you tend to be very loyal to the guy whopromotes you.These are two tendencies that I would like to mention. At the same timewe have the list of 220 candidates for parliament, and there are probablymore than about 30 women there.Cecilia Wigström (fp): 30 out of 220 - that is not so many!Jaroslav Romanchuk: Take into account the state of democracy in oursociety. We wish we had your level.Boris Tarasyuk: This is about the presentation made by Mr. Mecklenburgand the comments made by about the definition? What is Neighbourhood Policyabout? Who is subject and who is object? That is my question. Perhapsit means that this is the policy which Europe as its geographical entityis having towards its neighbours. Then neither nor norMoldova is the subject of this policy because they have to be insidethis regional entity. In such a case this should be the policy towardsthe neighbours beyond the , in the Middle East. These arethe neighbours and the object of Neighbourhood Policy.This is about the definition. I am glad, Mr. Mecklenburg, that you saidthat Europe does not equal to Union. But what about thedefinition then? Why Neighbourhood Policy and not the EUNeighbourhood Policy? This is my first comment.My second comment is about that you in a way were trying to defend yourbosses - Mr. But I may continue this row ofstatements which is appalling to us in . To say about the membershipof in Union that it equals to the membership ofMexico in the is appalling. It was said by Mr. Verheugensome two years ago! There is another expression saying: "Ukrainiansfeel like Europeans themselves - so what, the do as well!"Mr. Bolkestein - we may continue this row of inadequate and insultivestatements on the part of Commission officials.About , let me remind you that in the beginning of the year 2000I myself as foreign minister at that time had travelled to andthen from to to offer the good services on the part ofUkraine between and Union. This offer has not beenreceived or accepted by Council.I have one more point. I wouldn't say that I evaluate positively norrather negatively the influence or the relationship of the EuropeanUnion with in this case. I think that Union isdoing a great job in sending the right messages to Ukrainan authoritiesabout undemocratic deeds in . The examples of these messageswere numerous immediately after the appalling events by the regionalclan which is now being headed by the Prime Minister of , who isby the way one of the candidates for the presidential elections. TheEuropean Union issued a very strong message and statement. The EuropeanUnion made a very strong message to the Ukrainian authorities when therewas a complete violation of the Ukrainian constitution, Ukrainian lawsand Ukrainian commitments before Union trying to changethe constitution in January this year. I may name quite a number ofgood, positive influences that Union is making upon Ukrainianinternal development trying to convince Ukrainian authorities to comeback to the road of democracy. So, Mr. Mecklenburg, please do not takeit as though I am that negative about the role of Union inUkraine.Carina (): I have a question that maybe is more general. I sithere and listen to your speeches. We talk about democracy and humanrights. But nobody brings up gender equality. How is it possible stilltoday to talk about democracy and human rights and exclude women srights?Jaroslav Romanchuk: I don't think that we make any exclusions in theBelarusian opposition. When demonstrators are arrested and put behindbars they are treated the same way. There is no discrimination. We haveessentially to take into account the starting conditions of our society- a male Communist party and politburo dominated.Of course, unemployment is a huge and growing problem in , andwomen are most affected. We proposed a programme to deal with thisburning problem in our country, but the government doesn't want to listento us. Members of the women's party that was disassembled in Belarusjoined our party. I don't think there is any discrimination, but I thinkit wouldn't be interpreted well by the society if we try to artificiallyincrease the number of women just to put people there who don't belongto politics and are not interested. I think it takes time, and we needa lot of involvement of women's organizations from the West and fromSweden to erase women problems in . We are on the running curveto reach your level of awareness of the role and the importance of womenin the society.Paul Silfverarm: I am partly in in . Myquestion goes to Mr. It has come to my knowledgethat the conditions in are below the level of human rights thathas been taken by the United Nations. Doesn't the UN act in thesecountries to help people from being offended? Is there any policy orintention or anything like that?Karsten Mecklenburg: I am not quite sure that I understood the question.Was it about human rights and not about social rights?Paul Silfverarm: I will explain what is behind the question. I listenedto a man who is in through a non-governmental organization.He said that people in this country are abused and that the women aretrying to help and to let the world know what is happening. I don'tknow what is happening in the other countries, but it is serious. Thisnon-government organization is working with money coming from Sida. Iam also Vice Chairman of in , thathas a project in Belarus.Is it true as I have been told, that the UN is not acting in this countrytrying to see to it that these people are not offended? My question is:Does the .Cecilia Wigström (fp): Do you mean Union?Paul Silfverarm: Yes. Does the EU have any intention of acting in thesecountries?Cecilia Wigström (fp): To stop the human rights violations?Karsten Mecklenburg: OK - I get it. I was asking because you referredto the United Nations. My understanding is that for the UN it is notthe priority to follow the human rights situation in European countries.UNDP is in all these countries, I understand. That s why I wasasking whether we were talking about social rights. Obviously we aretalking about , which is a member of the and, if you want,in the area of . is havinga very close look at the human rights situation and development inBelarus. Romanchuk made a presentation where this came out very clear,so I wouldn t feel the need to add up much more on that.Mr. Romanchuk also referred to reports by Mr. I think heis a Cypriot, and an MP of just made a report on the situation of disappeared persons in Belarusincluding some suggestions on how to follow that up, how the Council ofEurope should react and how other European countries should react. Thereis a very intense discussion ongoing on and on the situation ofhuman rights and democracy in inside Union. In theCouncil and in the Council working groups a number of member states ofthe European Union are very . They are having a very close lookand insist on defining EU reactions on all these appaling cases. Iunderstand you have a specific example of a Swedish NGO being activethere. There is indeed a number of activities from official donors butalso from NGO's funded by Union in . That is alsoincreasing the level of transparency which I understand you are callingfor.I think it is quite clear that Union as well as otherEuropean bodies - and I mentioned - are followingthe situation in very attentively and with the for utmosttransparency making public the violations of the human rights and basicdemocratic principles in Belarus.Daniel Ionita: I am Secretary in charge of political affairs at theEmbassy of here in . I do have a question targetedespecially to Mr. but also to the other distinguishedmembers of the panel who may like to join.I would like to hear your views on the different proposals to federalizationof the republic of Moldova.Stefan Uritu: We have different proposals for the intention tosolve the Transnistrian conflict. We have the federalization of theRepublic of and then a memorandum of Mr. Ican say that for me and for the majority of the population in Moldovathis proposal is not acceptable. It looks as a proposal to combatinternational terrorism via federalization of the with a Bin Ladennetwork and a . I would like to say that we never willaccept any recognition of the . We are not againstfederalization, but we are against it if a regime of criminals and theregim of will be the actual regime. They violate internationalhumanitarian law and produce a lot of violation of human rights. Now aninternational community is looking for a solution.Boris Tarasyuk: As a person who was involved since the very beginningin the settlement of the Transnistrian conflict in I may saythat clearly defined its position back in 1992. The oppositionmeant that if you are interested in saving the territorial integrity ofyour country you have to admit the diversity of views in parts of thiscountry. The opposition meant that autonomy for Transnistria was thesolution. But unfortunately our views were not heard in Chisinau atthat time.This is one of the results of what we have in - the continuationof this separatism. As long as federalization is not leading to separatismand as long as it is supporting the territorial integrity of the countryit might be acceptable.Kenneth G (): I would like to direct my question to Ms. Zimmerand to have your view on the possibilities for these countries to becomestable democracies as we define them in western Europe. Most of all Iam concerned about and the situation there. The past electionsdon't seem to give much hope. What has to be done specifically andconcrete to make solid democracy possible? What has to be done in thecountries by themselves and what can we help with or promote from Swedenand other countries in the world who believe in democracy?Kerstin Zimmer: I can only speak about . I am very unfamiliarwith the two other cases. But if one has a look at that country I thinkit is first of all necessary for the so called opposition to find acommon reform plan, because I think the main problem at the moment isthat the opposition is not really united. I don t know if we can doanything from the outside to support that.But what can certainly be done especially from Union - andthis is where I would agree with the other panelists - is to give aclear message to that if the country meets the standards itwill have the chance to become a member. If one has a look at thepopulation in and the opinion polls about integration with theEuropean Union and with for example it is interesting to seethat both integration points have very high rating. It is also clearthat you cannot have both. That should be made clear from the side ofthe European Union. It is either or - you cannot integrate into thewestern European economic space and have unified economic space withRussia at the same time because it requires different setting of rulesthat might contradict each other. I think this is something where theEuropean Union could be more blunt.Jaroslav Romanchuk: We have a blueprint for democratizing Belarus.Essentially it has a lot to do both with the activities of the oppositionand the activities of the international society. We mostly did our partof the job. There is a kind of myth of unificiation of opposition inBelarus, my country, and I think it probably sometimes refers to othercountries too. We united major political parties and major forces thatwanted to carry out the parliamentary campaign. Now let's say that theauthorities are very apt to destroying every idea and proding it intothe mind of the people. Recently there was the appearance of the socalled sports party that claimed to be in the opposition. Authoritieskeep on producing different structures. People legitely belong to theopposition but aren't members of the Coalition. It goes on end, becauselet's say that we have been in the opposition politics for abouteight years right now, after the parliament was dissolved, and we knowwho is who. Now the West is also somehow doped by the idea that noteverybody is there.Besides, some people who are politicians in have differentagendas. For example, the Social Democratic party leader wants to runfor president. His priority at present is to run for president and notto take part in the parliamentary campaign. That is his right, but itis the problem of the opposition that not everybody, of theanti-democratic, regime are with us. But at the same time, when you lookat the essence, these people who are in opposition also are supportedby some Western institutions and structures. So I believe that if weunite of the people who have the same vision of democratization itis good.There is also another thing that our Western colleagues and partnersshould take into account and keep in mind. If you look at this bottleyou see that it is water. The lable states that. In Belaruslabels are very misleading.It's easier to take the name of the party, the name of the structure,for granted, saying: "This is the Social , these areLiberals, these are Nationals. Let's treat them as we treat our colleaguesin our own country. "I would suggest changing that, because labels sometimes produce wrongresults. Instead of supporting people who act in the same kind ofstrategy on a tactics scenario, they are supported by the West just fortheir labels, not for their deeds. We have seen recent cases of this inthe past.What can the West do? By the West I do not mean only Unionbut broadly civil society and foundations. We have 110 campaigns running.We have people running for parliament. I myself have started my campaignalready. We, of course, need support. We need information support, weneed technical support, we need training, for each constituency.Parliamentary elections in start almost a week before electionday. It takes four or five days when any number of ballot papers can beput in the ballot boxes. That is another problem.There are media groups in who are very and authoritative.We have five registered Russian media groups. They have their mediaoutlets. Not a single Western European Union paper or magazine hasexpressed the to work or promote European values and promote theposition of Europeans. My suggestion is to talk to media groups here tomake a joint venture or buy an existing Belarusian paper and produce agood magazine that will address people in order to promote a year ofactivity supported by a Western institution. If these foundations arehesitant to support Belarusian papers they might support this kind ofactivity of well established brands from the West. There are many waysof supporting educational institutions, training centres. My colleaguesproposed to the government an alternative budget law, privatization law,pension reform systems. Creating common groups, teams, to make out theblueprint for Belarusian reforms, with the participation of Europeans,will be welcome. now we are working on the project of making abook for the next parliament, 500 pages, to cover all major policy areasfor future parliamentarians. Even if Lukashenka appoints them they willstill have our vision and our concrete proposals for the country, if itis internal policy, human rights, death penalty, budget, social security,pensions. These are concrete things, and they are highly welcome bysociety in . It is not like talking about human rights, democracyin general. These are challenging the existing opinions and existingpractices of government.Boris Tarasyuk: I would like to agree with Ms. Zimmer, but I cannot,about the reason why there is no prospective democracy in . Theopposition is disunited. Let me say a few words, since you referred tothis issue for the second time.What is opposition in ? Our , the Coalition, of which Iam one of the leaders, is the most successful project of unification ofoppositional forces. We have combined ten different political partiesfrom the far right to a centre left.