Borrison/hk-legicost huggingface dataset:
現時，政府提供的數據我不敢說所有數據都是這樣只不過是掩耳盜鈴，不能反映真實情況。
The data currently provided by the Government―I dare not say all the data are like this―are merely used to muffle ones ears while stealing a bell . The reality cannot be reflected
我們如何改善現有的監察制度呢？
How can the existing supervisory system be improved?
我相信政府在未來1年內必須盡快解決這個問題。
I believe the Government must resolve this problem expeditiously in the coming year
低技術人員選擇工作的能力確實有限，所以，這個制度所衍生的社會問題並非單一，我希望政府留意。
The ability of low - skilled workers to pick jobs is indeed limited . Therefore I hope the Government can pay attention to the fact that this system has given rise to more than one single social problem
第一，從投標的結果看來，是"價低者得"，雖然政府不承認；第二是監察制度。
The first point is that judging from the tender results the approach of lowest bid wins is adopted despite the denial by the Government; and second the supervisory system
我們希望以"質素為本"，在評分制度作出調整，除了前線人員的工資水平、前線人員的編制、前線人員與監管人員編制的比例外，設備水平、項目管理和評分方式等，須佔標書評分不少於50%，但現時只佔三四成。
We hope that the marking scheme can be adjusted according to the quality - oriented approach . Besides the wage levels and establishment of frontline employees as well as the ratio between them and supervisory staff the level of equipment project management the marking model and so on must account for not less than 50 % of the tender scores though they represent only 30 % to 40 % at present
所以，即使政府不承認是"價低者得"，現實上亦造成這效果。
Hence even if the Government denies lowest bid wins such an effect has been produced in reality
我相信在餘下的3至4分鐘發言時間，我不能完全闡述，但我希望今天點出問題和調整方向後，政府能認真研究。
I believe I will not be able to give a full account in the remaining three to four minutes of my speaking time but still I hope the Government can conduct a serious study after I have highlighted the problems and adjustment direction today
第二點是關於監察。
The second point is related to supervision
坊間有不少意見，民建聯也有不同意見，其中一個意見是強化區議會對承辦商的監察。
Members of the community including members of DAB have made quite many suggestions . One of them is to strengthen the supervision of service contractors by District Councils DCs
我們認為，政府應加強對 承辦商的監察，例如引入突擊檢查或匿名投訴等制度，令實際情況得以真實反映。
In our opinion the Government should strengthen the supervision of contractors by for instance introducing raids or such systems as an anonymous complaint system to enable true reflection of the actual circumstances
另外，儘管現時區議會有責任監察公共設施和服務的提供及使用，但外判服務的招標和評核工作主要由政府相關部門負責，區議會的參與其實並不多。
On the other hand although DCs are currently duty - bound to supervise the provision and use of public facilities and services their participation is actually not substantial because the tendering and assessment of outsourced services is responsible mainly by relevant government departments
所以，政府應研究強化區議會在外判服務方面的參與，包括就承辦商的招標、遴選及磋商合約等制訂監管機制給予意見，並鼓勵區議會收集公眾對外判服務的意見，集中向政府反映。
Therefore the Government should study enhancing the participation of DCs in outsourced services including advising on the establishment of a supervisory mechanism for the tenders for and selection of contractors negotiating contracts and so on and encouraging DCs to collect public views on outsourced services and relay them collectively to the Government
這是其中一點。
This is one of the points
其實，政府外判一些服務後，你們須承擔的所有責任便是監察。
Actually after the outsourcing of services by the Government the only responsibility borne by DCs has to be supervision
剛才我所說的突擊檢查，當局未必做得到，但是否能在問卷調查這方面多做一點？
Although the authorities might not be able to conduct raids as suggested by me earlier can efforts be stepped up in conducting questionnaire surveys?
事實上，參與政府投標的外判公司來來去去也是那五六間公司可能有更多，政府有實際的數字從結果顯示，政府傾向一些具規模的公司。
Actually only five to six outsourcing companies will participate in government tenders―the number might be higher; the Government has the actual figure―judging from the results the Government is inclined to sizable companies
因此，我希望政府我的發言時間不足，只餘下30多秒我只提及了清潔服務的外判，稍後可能有議員會提及IT和保安服務的外判，民建聯的其他議員會就不同範疇向政府反映意見。我謹此陳辭。
Therefore I hope that the Government―my speaking time is running out and only 30 - odd seconds are left―I have only mentioned the outsourcing of cleaning services
但是，政府同時透過T合約聘請很多人，所說的數目是數以千計。
However at the same time the Government recruits many workers through T - contract; the number is in the thousands
相比下，公務員編制內的IT人員只有951個。
In comparison there were only 951 IT staff in the civil service establishment
此外，非公務員合約制的IT僱員是440個。
Moreover the number of IT staff on non - civil service contract was 440
大家看到這個數目已感驚人，有哪個機構的外判員工會較本身的合約僱員或直接僱員多呢？
People are shocked just by the numbers . Which organization has more outsourced staff than contract staff or its own staff hired direct?
況且，這些真的並非一些基層如清潔員工，其實俱是專業人員，這對政府內部的某些系統開發工作的安全性等各方面的影響有多大，大家可想而知。
Moreover they are not grass roots workers such as cleaners but are all professionals . People can imagine how big the impact will be on various aspects such as security of certain system development work within the Government
那些中介公司合約的問題何在呢？
What is the problem with the contracts of those intermediaries?
營辦商是很好做的，聽說不少也是由退休政府人員經營，因為他們很熟悉相關系統。
It is easy to be a contractor . I have heard that many of them are run by retired government officials who are well versed in the relevant systems
他們坐着推推文件便可以發達，這真的是優質老闆的工作。
They make a fortune simply by sitting and doing some paper chase . It is truly an ideal job for a boss
10.6年是甚麼短期需要呢？
What short - term need lasts 10.6 years?
實際上，是否為了省錢呢？
As a matter of fact is it meant to make savings?
第二，這樣對行業有影響、對這群同事不公平對待，令他們同工不同酬。
Secondly it affects the industry and gives unfair treatment to this group of workers who receive different pay for the same work done
這些做法，多年來一直持續。
Such practices have persisted over the many years
創新及科技局成立後，本來它其中一項工作是壯大科技人才庫，但至今我仍未看到有任何動作，真正落實這件事。
Since the establishment of the Innovation and Technology Bureau ITB one of its tasks is to expand the talent pool of technology . But to date I have not seen any action that really undertakes such a task
政府至今實際上未有制訂任何長遠的資訊科技人力資源策略，以及相應的培訓人才策略。
In fact the Government has not formulated any long - term human resources strategy for IT and a corresponding manpower training strategy
有關STEM的教育改革，其實只是每間學校撥款20萬元。
As regards the education reform of the four fields of science technology engineering and mathematics STEM it just involves giving 200,000 to each school as funding
多年來我要求政府牽頭改善外判，特別是T合約的問題，政府基本上沒有回應，但實際行動便是最誠實的，這些職位的聘請人數續見增加。
Over the years I have been requesting the Government to take the lead to ameliorate problems of outsourcing in particular T - contract . The Government basically has given no response . But practical actions speak the truth
如果政府真的要吸引人才入行，請它牽頭尊重IT人才，對行業生態發揮一些正面的作用，而不是負面作用。
The number of recruits for these positions has been on the rise . If the Government really wants to attract people to join the industry please take the lead to respect IT talents and create some positive effects not negative effects on the ecology of the industry
過去，我跟進這件事，向公務員事務局查詢，它將我"踢"到政府資訊科技總監辦公室。
In the past I followed up on this issue and made enquiries with the Civil Service Bureau which kicked me to OGCIO
所以，我的建議是減少政府的外判合約員工、進行全面的政府資訊科技人力資源策略的檢討、建立長期T合約員工過渡到直接聘用的機制、分階段減少外判的IT職位，以及按照未來各個部門推動的項目，增加公務員編制下的IT員工的招聘。
Hence I suggest a reduction in the number of contract staff of outsourced government services a comprehensive review of the Governments human resources strategy for IT establishment of a mechanism for T - contract staff to be converted to direct employment reduction in phases the number of outsourced IT posts as well as an increase in the recruitment of IT workers in the civil service establishment according to projects launched by various departments in the future
我想在餘下的時間，回應一下數位議員提出有關"價低者得"的問題。
In the remaining time I would like to give a brief response to the problem of lowest bid wins as pointed out by a few Members
因為公務員不會自己完成一個項目，便說是某間外判公司做得差。
Civil servants would not complete a task on their own and say some contractor has done a bad job because if they do so who has done a bad job?
主席，我謹此陳辭，希望議員支持我的修正案。
With these remarks President I hope Members will support my amendment
我現在向各位提出的待議議題是：《道歉條例草案》，予以二讀。
I now propose the question to you and that is That the Apology Bill be read the Second time
代理主席，我記得去年有一宗關於財務中介公司不良行為的新聞，當時亦頗為轟動。
Deputy President I remember that last year there were news reports about a case relating to the unscrupulous practices of financial intermediaries which caused quite an uproar at the time
報道指有一名婦人欠下銀行18萬元的債務，在中介公司的幫助下我 暫且稱之為幫助她以為可以獲得低息貸款，結果便不斷要"數冚數"地還款。
It was reported that a woman owed a debt of 180,000 to a bank and she thought she could secure a loan at a low interest rate with the assistance of intermediaries―let me term it as assistance for the time being―but in the end she had to keep taking out more loans to repay the previous ones
最後怎樣呢？
What happened in the end?
最後是原來借貸的420萬元，她只是收到104元。
It eventually turned out that she received only 104 for the loan of 4.2 million that she was supposed to have taken out originally
我重複，是104元，不是104萬元。
Let me repeat it was 104 not 1.04 million
這種荒謬離譜的情況，相信大家也知道並非單一例子。我相信在每個月、每個星期，甚至每天都在香港社會上發生。
I believe Members all know that this is not the only case of such absurdity and I think it happens in Hong Kong society every month every week or even every day
在我過去接獲市民的求助個案當中，為數不少都涉及放債人和中介公司的不良行為。
Among the cases received by me in which members of the public requested assistance quite a large number was about unscrupulous practices of money lenders and intermediaries
面對中介公司日益猖獗的不良行為，現行的政策和法例欠缺對中介公司的直接監管。
While the unscrupulous practices of intermediaries have become increasingly rampant direct regulation of intermediaries is lacking in the existing policies and legislation
目前，這方面主要的監管法例是《放債人條例》。顧名思義，《放債人條例》主要是監管放債人，而非中介公司。
Currently the major regulatory legislation in this respect is the Money Lenders Ordinance and as its name suggests the Ordinance serves mainly to regulate money lenders not intermediaries
我相信當初制定《放債人條例》時並未有充分考慮到中介公司所帶來的問題。
I think initially when the Money Lenders Ordinance was enacted the problems brought about by intermediaries had not been fully taken into consideration
不過，隨着近年不斷發生中介公司以不良手法經營的事件，我知道政府也曾推出一些新措施，但針對的對象依然離不開放債人，例如要求放債人在批出任何貸款時必須確定借款人有否委任中介公司，亦要求放債人確保委任的中介公司不會向借款人收取任何費用。
However as I understand it in face of the repeated occurrence of incidents of intermediaries operating with unscrupulous practices in recent years the Government has put forward some new measures yet such measures still target only money lenders such as requiring money lenders to confirm at the grant of the loan whether the borrower has appointed an intermediary and requiring money lenders to ensure that the appointed intermediary does not charge any fee on the borrower
審查中介公司的責任反而落在放債人身上，政府始終沒有完善及直接監管中介公司，根本的問題並未得到解決，而事實上問題至今仍然存在。
The responsibility of checking the intermediaries thus falls on the money lenders while the Government still has yet to implement effective and direct regulation on the intermediaries . The thrust of the problem has remained unresolved and in fact the problem still exists now
這問題其實可以分兩方面來看。
This problem can actually be considered from two perspectives
第一，放債人究竟有否能力確保中介公司不會作出違規的行為呢？
First do money lenders have the ability to ensure that the intermediaries do not act against the rules?
第二，放債人申領牌照時，門檻並不太高，如果要依賴放債人監管，能否有效打擊放債人和中介公司合謀的違法行為呢？
Second as money lenders do not need to meet too high a threshold in applying for a licence if we count on money lenders to play a monitoring role can this be effective in curbing the unlawful practices of money lenders acting in collusion with the intermediaries?
因此，我認為政府有必要推行更多直接措施監管中介公司，包括麥美娟議員在原議案中提及的設立財務中介牌照制度、設立監管機構、擴大現行《放債人條例》的監管範圍等。
Therefore I think it is imperative for the Government to implement more measures for direct regulation of the intermediaries including the establishment of a licensing regime for financial intermediaries establishment of a regulatory body and expansion of the ambit of the existing Money Lenders Ordinance as mentioned in the original motion of Ms Alice MAK
不過，我認為最重要的一點是，政府必須承擔更多監管中介公司的責任。
Having said that I think it is most important for the Government to assume more responsibilities in the regulation of intermediaries
長遠而言，如果財 務中介這行業持續發展下去，政府應該研究另行立法規管中介公司。
In the long term if the financial intermediary industry continues to develop the Government should study the enactment of a separate piece of legislation on the regulation of intermediaries
考慮到這些情況，我認同原議案的建議，政府應該推動行業專業發展，以提高從業員的操守。
In view of these cases I support the proposals made in the original motion that the Government should promote the professional development of the industry to improve the conduct of its practitioners
至於具體的做法，我認為首先要設立行業從業員登記制度，因為在登記後，一來能讓市民查詢是否有人假冒，二來亦有助政府監察行業從業員的操守，以便執法。
As for what specific measures should be adopted I think as a first step it is necessary to establish a registration system for practitioners in the industry because their registration will firstly enable the public to identify any imposter and secondly help the Government monitor the conduct of the practitioners in the industry and facilitate law enforcement
另一方面，我也看到海關和警方近年確實有打擊不良中介公司，但打擊的大多是大規模的詐騙集團，對於個別的不良銷售手段則無法處理。
On the other hand I can see that the Customs and Excise Department and the Police have indeed taken actions against unscrupulous intermediaries in recent years . However they mostly targeted actions at large - scale fraud syndicates and could not tackle individual unscrupulous sales practices
即使他們報警求助，警方仍然以私人商業糾紛為由阻止他們或不受理。
Even though they reported their cases to the Police they were still deterred or rejected by the Police on the ground of private commercial disputes
剛才麥美娟議員說現時警方也做了不少的工作和提供幫助，甚至亦有專責的人員負責處理這類糾紛。
Earlier on Ms Alice MAK remarked that the Police have made a lot of efforts to provide assistance and they even have dedicated staff responsible for handling these disputes
我覺得最重要的是警務人員的做法，因為不少市民都覺得當出現問題時，便一定要報警處理，故警方不能一律以這些屬私人問題為由而要求求助人自行解決，而是應先受理這些個案，然後進行深入調查，除非有明顯及具體的拒絕理由，否則便應該審慎處理才對。
I think the way that the Police handle these cases is most important because many members of the public think that they must report to the Police when there is a problem . Therefore the Police must not indiscriminately tell people seeking assistance to solve the problem by themselves on the ground that the disputes are of a private nature . Rather they should first accept these cases and then conduct in - depth investigations
代理主席，另一個問題是現時部分放債人濫發貸款，遠遠超出借款人的還款能力。
Unless there are obvious and concrete reasons to reject a case the Police should handle such cases carefully . Deputy President another problem is that some money lenders have approved loans recklessly to the extent that the loans granted are far beyond the repayment capacity of the borrowers and when borrowers do not have the means to make repayment they would keep on charging interests on the borrowers or even suggest the borrowers repaying their loans by taking out more loans
直到借款人無力還款時，便不斷收取利息，甚至教借款人"數冚數"，結果令借款人還一輩子也還不完，因而衍生更多問題。
As a result the borrowers will only find themselves saddled with a lifetime of debts and this will give rise to even more problems
據我所知，現時銀行和大型財務機構都會按照借款人的還款能力批出貸款，但一些小型機構則不會這樣做。
As far as I know banks and large - scale financial institutions are now approving loans in accordance with the repayment capacity of the borrowers but some small - scale institutions do not do the same
所以，我希望政府能在這方面多加規管，嚴格規管所有放債人必須對借款人的還款能力作出評估後才決定放債金額，以杜絕濫發貸款的問題。
Therefore I hope that the Government can step up regulation in this respect to strictly require all money lenders to make assessment of the repayment capacity of the borrowers before deciding to grant loans to them thereby eliminating the problem of money lenders approving loans recklessly
簡而言之，對於放貸行為，特別是中介公司，政府必須採取更主動和積極的態度，制定適用於中介公司的法例，同時大力加強執法，以免有更多市民受害。
In short with regard to money - lending activities especially those involving intermediaries the Government must adopt a more proactive and positive attitude and enact legislation applicable to intermediaries and at the same time vigorously step up enforcement actions so as to prevent more people from becoming victims
根據《基本法》第七十五條動議的擬議決議案。
Proposed resolution under Article 75 of the Basic Law
我現在請梁耀忠議員就議案動議修正案。
I now call upon Mr LEUNG Yiu - chung to move his amendment to the motion
我現在向各位提出的待議議題是：梁耀忠議員就麥美娟議員議案動議的修正案，予以通過。
I now propose the question to you and that is That the amendment moved by Mr LEUNG Yiu - chung to Ms Alice MAKs motion be passed
由於胡志偉議員不在席，本會不會處理他的修正案。
Since Mr WU Chi - wai is not in the Chamber Council will not proceed with his amendment
主席，自從政府帶頭以"價低者得"的原則將服務外判後，對僱員的權益開了一個極壞先例。
President since the Government took the lead in outsourcing services under the lowest bid wins principle an extremely bad precedent has been set with regard to employees rights and benefits
社會其他企業都緊隨政府的做法，外判一些比較勞動性或者以基層為主的工作出去，甚至出現"判上判"，導致一層剝削一層的情況不斷在勞工界出現。
Companies follow the Governments practice and outsource certain relatively manual or elementary jobs even to the extent of subcontracting thus leading to tiers of continued exploitation in the labour sector
不過，正如議員剛才所說，我相信政府一定不承認奉行"價低者得"原則，因為政府說沒有白紙黑字寫明"價低者得"，何來有這個政策存在。
Nevertheless as Members have just said I believe the Government will definitely not admit that it upholds the lowest bid wins principle . As the Government said the lowest bid wins principle is not in black and white so this policy does not exist
但是，主席，大家都清楚知道，現時政府招標中最重要的因素始終是以價格為主，所謂價格的評分標準是甚麼呢？
However President as we are all know clearly the most important factor in Government tenders is always the price . What is this so - called price - oriented scoring scheme about?
承辦商提出的價格越低，越容易中標，這是不容置疑的事實。
The lower the price offered by contractors the easier will be the bid won . This is an undeniable fact
無須多說，為迎合政府這個"價低者得"的要求，這些投標者或外判商，自然用盡 所有手段來降低成本，最容易的做法就是壓低工資、扣減人手和增加工時等。
Needless to say in order to meet the Governments lowest bid wins requirement bidders or contractors try every possible means to cut costs with suppressing wages reducing manpower and increasing work hours being the easiest ways
政府的外判，不單是外判了工作，更外判了責任，將保障僱傭權益的責任都外判給外判商自行承擔。
The Government has not only outsourced the work but also the responsibility . It has outsourced the responsibility of protecting employees rights and benefits to contractors
香港物業管理及保安職工總會在上半年走訪了全港康樂及文化事務署及食物環境衞生署轄下場地，訪問了百多二百位外判保安員和清潔員。
The Hong Kong Buildings Management and Security Workers General Union visited venues under the Leisure and Cultural Services Department LCSD and the Food and Environmental Hygiene Department FEHD in the first half of the year and interviewed some 200 outsourced security guards and cleaning workers
最離譜的是，超過九成外判商沒有為工友提供有薪用膳時間，而這是我們一直以來爭取的。
The most outrageous case was that more than 90 % of the contractors did not provide paid meal breaks to workers and paid meal breaks are what we have been fighting for
由此可見，政府外判承辦商大力壓榨勞工以降低成本。
It can thus be seen that the Government service contractors oppress labour to reduce costs
不過，很諷刺的是，政府的外判工處境剛剛相反，工資低、福利差、時間長，這不是諷刺是甚麼呢？
It is most ironic that the situation of outsourced workers of the Government is the exact opposite low wages poor benefits long working hours . What else can this be if not irony?
現在政府直接聘用的清潔工友月薪大約12,000元。
The monthly wage of cleaning workers directly employed by the Government is about 12,000
不過，外判員工的工資是多少呢？
How much is that of outsourced workers?
同工竟然不同酬。
Different pay for the same work
歸根究底，政府必須改變外判"價低者得"的原則，充分考慮勞工的基本權利。
Ultimately the Government must change its lowest bid wins principle in outsourcing and fully consider the fundamental rights of the labour
其實讓外判商剝削勞工，變相令人覺得是政府帶頭剝削這群勞動工友。
In fact letting contractors exploit workers gives people the impression that the Government is taking the lead to exploit this group of workers
主席，我知道政府一定會狡辯說有監督承辦商，確保他們不會無理剝削員工，又會強調《僱傭條例》裏面有很多保障。
President I know that the Government will argue that contractors are under supervision to ensure protection for employees from unreasonable exploitation . The Government will also stress that there are sufficient safeguards in the Employment Ordinance EO
但是，大家知道這種說法是騙人的，因為大家也知道《僱傭條例》只不過是保障最基本的勞工權益。
However we all know that this is a lie because EO protects only the most basic labour rights
事實上，不單外判工友受到保障，全港"打工仔"都受到保障，即說了等於沒說。
In fact it protects not only outsourced workers but all wage earners in Hong Kong
你將這個責任推給《僱傭條例》是沒有意思的，因為我們知道由政府外判的工作予人的感覺政府是背後的老闆，政府為何可以這樣卸責呢？
So it means nothing . Shirking this responsibility to EO is meaningless because as we all know the Government is the boss behind its outsourced work . How could the Government shirk its responsibility like this?
反過來說，大家都明白，政府責無旁貸，應該直接關注和保障員工應有的權利，不應該讓外判商在中間剝削這群僱員。
On the other hand we all understand that the Government is duty - bound to care about and protect the due rights of employees and should not allow contractors to exploit this group of employees
同時，主席，政府經常說有監管，所謂的監管只不過是批出文件或發指引給僱主。
Meanwhile President the Government often says there is supervision but the so - called supervision is merely issuing documents or guidelines to employers
但是，大家也知道，僱主犯不着違反這些所謂指引和法例，因為這些對他來說沒有甚麼特別大傷害。
However we know that employers have no reasons to violate these so - called guidelines and regulations which can do no particular harm to them
大家知道，很多時外判商知道甚麼時候會點人數，所以，點算人數的時候會湊夠人數，點算後一定沒有足夠人數，不夠人數又怎樣呢？
Contractors are often in the know when headcounts will be conducted so they will rally enough people during the headcount but it is surely another case afterwards . So what happens when there is not enough people?
食環署或康文署判出最多外判工作，他們有否留心、關心或關注這些外判員工如何受到外判商的剝削呢？
FEHD and LCSD outsource the most work have they paid attention to cared about or shown concern about how contractors exploit these outsourced workers?
此外，政府不斷提出，外判服務設有扣分制度，請大家不用擔心，但我們認為扣分制度只是"無牙老虎"，因為被扣分的其中一個原因是被勞工處判定犯事，但正如我剛才所說，勞工處如何才會判定僱主犯事呢？
Besides the Government has repeatedly suggested that there is a demerit points system for outsourcing services so we do not need to worry . But we think that the demerit points system is just a toothless tiger because one of the reasons for incurring demerit points is violation as determined by the Labour Department LD . As I have just said when will LD determine that an employer is in violation?
便是觸犯《僱傭條例》，不是犯剝削條例，我們沒有剝削條例，所以這些外判商很少因為違規而被扣分，這是一個問題。
When the employer contravenes EO not an anti - exploitation legislation . We do not have any legislation against exploitation so contractors rarely incur demerit points due to violation . This is a problem
最後，我想指出，我認為政府必須縮窄現時的外判範圍和規模，並且以保障工人的合理生活水平為原則。
Lastly I think the Government must reduce the scope and scale of the existing outsourcing services and ensure a reasonable living standard for the workers . At the same time the Government will sometimes stop outsourcing or stop employing some contract staff
同時，現時政府有很多外判工作，有時會停止外判或聘請一些政府合約員工，但我們認為這個做法是有問題的，最好的做法是以長期聘用方式聘請僱員，但長期聘用之中，希望政府能夠優先聘請一些外判員工或合約員工，讓他們有機會繼續工作，因為這些員工一直為我們服務，他們有經驗，為免浪費他們......
We believe this practice is problematic . The best way is to hire employees on permanent terms and when doing so it is hoped that the Government will give priority to outsourced workers or contract staff so that they will have a chance to continue to work as these workers have been serving us . They have the experience and it should not be wasted
我發言支持原議案和所有修正案。
I rise to speak in support of the original motion and all the amendments
剛才我聽到陳家強局長的開場發言，似乎不太對焦，因為最重要是現行的放債人發牌制度 出現很大問題。
The opening remarks of Secretary Prof K C CHAN just now sounded to my ear that they did not seem to be focused because the most important issue is that serious problems lie in the existing money lenders licensing system
2015年持牌放債人有1,641個，主席，其實我和你只要有心的話，繳交8,800元牌費，再向牌照法庭繳交1,910元費用，不需要資本資金證明，便可以開業。
There were 1 641 licensed money lenders in 2015 . President in fact if you and I wish we may launch a business by simply paying 8,800 licence fee and 1,910 to the licensing court . No proof of capital and funds is required
通常要找放債人或財務公司的，都是一些最基層的市民，他們很少有固定收入，甚至唯一的資產是一層樓。
Those who need to approach money lenders or finance companies are usually the grass roots . They rarely have a fixed income and their only asset may be a flat
所以，政府在去年年底表示，收緊放債人發牌條件便可以解決這個問題，我恐怕有點緣木求魚。
The Government said at the end of last year that the problem could be solved by tightening the licensing conditions of money lenders
因為，事實上，我和你都知道，如果要落重手、要做工夫，當然無需自己動手，那些中介人、"艇仔"會幫忙處理，這是第一點。
I am afraid this is no different from climbing a tree to catch fish because we all know that they surely do not need to do it themselves if they want to use a heavy hand