Borrison/hk-legicost huggingface dataset:
所以，我希望建制派的同事，如果你們能認清今天的形勢，便明白今天的政治清算，他朝可能降臨在大家身上。
Therefore I hope that pro - establishment Members can grasp the present situation and realize that the political persecution today may befall anyone one day
當然，這並非特別指明某些政團，只是舉例而言而已，譬如鄉事派、工聯會等。
Of course I am not talking about any particular political groups . I just want to give some examples such as the rural forces the Hong Kong Federation of Trade Unions and so on
當中共能夠令香港的議會完全換血，便不需要你們這些傳統建制派的代理人了。
Once the Communist Party of China succeeds in completely replacing the membership of the Hong Kong legislature you people in the traditional pro - establishment camp will longer be needed as its agents
屆時，我們議會使用的語言便會變成"唔鹹唔淡"的廣東話。
When that time comes the language used in the legislature will be Cantonese with all sorts of accents
到了 那一刻，相信我們的議會已完全失陷。
I believe when this happens our legislature will have fallen completely
至少今天我們仍可利用我們的《條例》捍衞我們的廉署。
But anyway at least we can still make good use of the Ordinance today to defend our ICAC
主席，強制性公積金計劃，自2000年年底實施以來，其退休保障成效一直備受外界批評。
President since the implementation of the Mandatory Provident Fund MPF scheme in late 2000 its effectiveness in providing retirement protection has been subject to public criticisms
我們考究當中原因，除了強積金本身基金表現參差和收費偏高外，強積金對沖機制是破壞強積金退休保障功能的"最大元兇"。
After looking into the matter we discovered that apart from the varied performance of different MPF funds and the high level of fees the prime culprit that undermines the retirement protection function of the MPF scheme is its offsetting mechanism
事實上，特首早在2012年的競選政綱已承諾，"逐步降低強積金戶口內僱主累積供款權益用作抵銷僱員長期服務金及遣散費的比例"。
In fact in as early as 2012 the Chief Executive undertook in his Election Manifesto to progressively reduce the proportion of accrued benefits attributed to employers contribution in the MPF account that can be applied by the employer to offset long - service or severance payments
但是，事隔4年之久，特區政府在處理對沖安排上依然毫無寸進。
However four years have elapsed but no progress has been made by the SAR Government in respect of the offsetting arrangement
究竟特區政府是無心，還是不做？
Is this because the SAR Government is insincere or is reluctant to take any action?
相信社會自有公論。
I believe society will make a fair judgment
取消強積金對沖機制的最大原因，是設立強積金與遣散費及長期服務金兩者的主要目的並不相同。
The major reason for abolishing the MPF offsetting mechanism lies in the different objectives behind the implementation of the MPF scheme and the provision of severance and long service payments
先說遣散費及長期服務金，遣散費是當工作滿兩年或以上的僱員被裁員、解僱或停工時，僱主所支付的一筆金錢；而長期服務金則是當工作滿5年或以上的員工，因健康理由或年老等原因而辭職時，僱主向他們支付的一筆金錢。
First of all regarding severance and long service payments while the former is the amount of money payable by an employer when an employee having two years service or more is dismissed made redundant or suspended from work the latter is the sum of money payable by an employer when an employee having five years service or more resigned on ground of ill health or old age
簡而言之， 遣散費及長期服務金的目的，都是要紓緩僱員因失去工作而須面對短期的財政壓力。
Simply put severance and long service payments seek to alleviate the short - term financial hardship upon loss of employment
反觀強積金制度，主要的功能是作為退休保障，以就業為本的強制性供款制度，確保每名就業人士在就業期間撥出部分工資，以協助就業人士為退休生活儲蓄。
Contrarily the MPF System mainly serves to provide retirement protection . This employment - based mandatory contribution scheme ensures that each employee sets aside some income during hisher working life as savings for their retirement
一些原本可能積蓄不多，甚至沒有為退休而儲蓄的人士，現在可以透過強積金計劃儲蓄一筆金錢，以備日後退休生活之用。
Some people who may not save much or any for their retirement can now use the sum of money saved under the MPF scheme for their retirement
由此可見，遣散費及長期服務金與強積金的目的各有不同。
From this we can see that the severance and long service payments and MPF actually serve difference purposes
因此，我們不應該把強積金僱主供款與遣散費及長期服務金作對沖，兩者不應混為一談。
Therefore we should not use employers contributions to offset severance and long service payments as they should not be confused
我們要求取消對沖機制的另一主要原因，是它嚴重蠶食"打工仔女"的"血汗錢"，直接影響他們的退休保障，尤其是中下收入的基層員工。
Another major reason for requesting the abolition of the offsetting mechanism is that this arrangement has seriously eroded the hard - earned money of wage earners and directly affected their retirement protection especially the low - and middle - income grass - roots workers
在2015年受到對沖安排影響的47,300名僱員，平均約有93%的相關強積金僱主供款部分被對沖。
In 2015 among the 47 300 employees affected by the offsetting arrangement an average of about 93 % of employers contributions were offset
事實上，一些行業例如飲食、清潔、保安業等，每每在兩三年約滿後便被遣散，結果對沖安排導致這群僱員所得的強積金累算權益大幅減少，根本不足以作為退休保障。
In fact employees of certain industries such as catering cleaning and security are often made redundant upon the expiry of their two - or three - year contracts . Under the offsetting arrangement their MPF accrued benefits were substantially reduced and the amount remained is hardly adequate to provide retirement protection
由於政府遲遲未落實取消對沖安排，令"打工仔女"所賺的"辛苦錢"被蠶食，因此，政府名副其實是破壞退休保障的"幫兇"。
Owing to the Governments delays in abolishing the offsetting arrangement the hard - earned money contributed by wage earners has been eroded . Therefore the Government is actually an accomplice weakening the retirement protection function
除此之外，我們亦要求政府要全面檢討強積金制度，以確保其行之有效，保障"打工仔女"的退休生活，而當中最為社會所詬病的是基金收費過高及表現參差。
Furthermore we also request the Government to conduct a comprehensive review of the MPF scheme to ensure that it can effectively provide retirement protection for wage earners . The high level of fees and varied performance of the MPF scheme have attracted much criticism by society
儘管政府當局在2016年通過"核心基金"改革，並致力令基金收費下調，但最近期的強積金平均基金開支比率仍是1.56%，遠高於4個實施類似退休計劃國家的基金收費，當中包括智利為0.56%、英國為1.19%、澳洲為1.21%，而新加坡則稍高，為1.4%。
Although the Government carried out a reform in 2016 by introducing the core fund and striving to bring down the fees the latest average Fund Expense Ratio FER of MPF funds still stood at 1.56 % much higher than those in four other countries with similar retirement schemes including Chile 0.56 % the United Kingdom 1.19 % Australia 1.21 % and Singapore which has a relatively higher FER of 1.4 %
正如強制性公積金計劃管理局所說，積金局須要繼續努力減低收費，因為當前的收費水平與計劃成員的普遍期望仍有距離，強調減低收費必須繼續是未來的工作重點之一。
As stated by the Mandatory Provident Fund Schemes Authority MPFA the MPFA has to continue its efforts in reducing fees as there is still a gap between the existing fee levels and the general expectation of scheme members . Reducing fees must remain one of the priorities in the future
基金表現亦相當參差，主要原因是股票佔強積金總資產66%，容易受到外圍經濟波動影響。
The performance of different funds also varied . This is mainly because about 66 % of total MPF assets were held in equities making it vulnerable to external economic shocks
第一，以2013年的對沖金額計算，這數目只佔當年全港總薪酬支出的0.37%，對實質企業現金流的影響其實很低。
Firstly based on the offsetting amount in 2013 it only accounted for 0.37 % of the territorys total wage bill and was therefore insignificant to the actual cash flow of enterprises
學者羅致光亦曾經指出，取消對沖機制對企業的每年財務影響其實十分有限。
Mr LAW Chi - kwong an academic has also pointed out that abolishing the offsetting mechanism actually has very little financial impact on enterprises
可見有關加重企業財政負擔的論點，實屬商界無的放矢的說法，以及政府偏袒的表現。
It can therefore be concluded that the argument that the abolition will impose a heavier burden on enterprises is an unsubstantiated claim of the business sector and a proof of the Governments favouritism
第二，由於時移勢易，強積金對沖確實"沖"走全港"打工仔女"合共292億元"血汗錢"，嚴重影響強積金的退休保障功能，使其不能發揮應有作用。
Secondly as time went by a total of 29.2 billion of the hard - earned money of local wage earners had been offset under the offsetting arrangement seriously affecting the MPF scheme to perform its due function of providing retirement protection
因此，為了"打工仔女"的退休保障着想，實在有必要盡快取消強積金的對沖機制。
Hence in order to secure retirement protection for wage earners it is necessary to expeditiously abolish the MPF offsetting mechanism
近日有消息指，政府傾向取消長期服務金，並曾經提出以失業保險金取代遣散費，工聯會認為不能接受。
It has been reported recently that the Government is inclined to abolish long service payments and replace severance payments with unemployment insurance fund . The Hong Kong Federation of Trade Unions considers this unacceptable
正如我較早前說過，長期服務金和遣散費的目的是紓緩僱員因失去工作而須面對的短期財政壓力。
As I said earlier on both long service and severance payments seek to alleviate the short - term financial hardships of employees due to the loss of their job
因此，取消長期服務金及遣散費是本末倒置的做法，只是將取消對沖機制的視線轉移。
Hence abolishing long service and severance payments is tantamount to putting the cart before the horse and distracting peoples attention from the abolition of the offsetting mechanism
取消長期服務金的建議，說明政府放棄保障勞工權益的責任，令商界有錯覺以為爭取勞工權益可以"進一步、退兩步"，對日後的勞資談判造成負面影響。
The proposed abolition of long service payment indicates that the Government intends to shirk its responsibility in protecting labour interests giving the business sector the wrong message that the fight for labour interests can take one step forward but two steps back . This would have an adverse effect on negotiations between employers and employees in the future
至於以失業保險金代替遣散費的建議，更意味着政府有意運用公帑倒貼為商界"買單"，袒護商界之心可說是"司馬昭之心，路人皆知"。
With regard to the proposal to replace severance payments with unemployment insurance fund it implies that the Government intends to use public funds to foot the bill for the business sector . Its bias towards the business sector is too obvious to all
主席，取消強積金對沖機制的阻力，主要來自心理上的影響。
President the obstacle to abolish the MPF offsetting mechanism is mainly psychological
我認為政府應帶頭做好良好僱主的榜樣，率先以政府外判承辦商的僱員、非公務員合約員工及基層員工的對沖安排作為第一步，即是由政府帶頭取消這些員工的強積金對沖機制，而不應再在處理對沖安排一事上含糊其詞。
I think the Government should set an example as a good employer and as a first step take the lead to abolish the offsetting arrangement for employees of government outsourcing contractors non - civil service contract staff and grass - roots employees . In other words the Government should take the initiative to abolish the MPF offsetting mechanism with regard to those staff and should not be perfunctory in handling the offsetting arrangement
既然特區政府本着"民生無小事"的原則，而對沖安排又是全港"打工仔女"的首要大事，所以政府務必盡快妥善處理，以回應社會的訴求。
Given the SAR Governments belief that no livelihood issue is too trivial and the offsetting arrangement is of prime concern to all local wage earners the Government should therefore expeditiously handle the matter effectively and respond to peoples aspirations
我希望今天出席的張建宗局長真的聆聽勞工界的聲音，亦希望局長能給大家好的開始，由政府帶頭取消強積金對沖機制，向商界做好的示範。
I hope that Secretary Matthew CHEUNG who is present at the meeting today would genuinely listen to the voices of the labour sector . I also hope that the Secretary would give us a good start and take the lead to abolish the MPF offsetting mechanism and set a good model for the business sector
主席，我謹此陳辭，稍後再作其他回應。
President I so submit and will respond again later
我現在向各位提出的待議議題是：黃國健議員動議的議案，予以通過。
I now propose the question to you and that is That the motion moved by Mr WONG Kwok - kin be passed
有6位議員要就這項議案動議修正案。
Six Members will move amendments to this motion
本會現在就議案及6項修正案進行合併辯論。
This Council will now proceed to a joint debate on the motion and the six amendments
我會依次請要動議修正案的吳永嘉議員、蔣麗芸議員、尹兆堅議員、張超雄議員、劉小麗議員及田北辰議員發言；但他們在現階段不可動議修正案。
I will call upon Members who move the amendments to speak in the following order Mr Jimmy NG Dr CHIANG Lai - wan Mr Andrew WAN Dr Fernando CHEUNG Dr LAU Siu - lai and Mr Michael TIEN; but they may not move the amendments at this stage
主席，我今天提出這項議案，是希望給社會一個機會關注和討論這個議題，然後形成共識，促使政府盡快就取消強制性公積金對沖機制這問題作出決定和有所行動。
President I have proposed this motion today hoping to create an opportunity for the community to express concerns about and discuss the subject and to reach a consensus thereby urging the Government to decide and take action expeditiously to abolish the Mandatory Provident Fund MPF offsetting mechanism
今天這項議案有6項修正案，先後有22位同事發言。
Today six amendments have been proposed to the motion and 22 Members have delivered speeches
我很感謝發言的同事，無論他們的立場為何，是支持還是反對這項議案，他們都說出了各自的理由，而我們應讓社會和市民評論究竟哪一方的理據較強。
I would like to thank Honourable colleagues who have spoken irrespective of their stances . No matter they are supportive of or opposed to the motion they have stated the reasons for their stances and we should leave it to the community and the public to comment which stance is better justified
其實，由政府提交強積金的具體法例開始，我們已反對法例包含對沖安排。
Actually when the Government submitted the specific legislation on MPF back then we already opposed the inclusion of the offsetting arrangement
尹兆堅議員要求行政長官履行承諾，對此我們理所當然予以支持，因為照理說，工聯會是第一優先的"債主"，"追數"我們一定會追到底。
Mr Andrew WAN urges the Chief Executive to honour his pledge and we will definitely support this . For the Hong Kong Federation of Trade Unions FTU should be the preferential debtor on the top of the list and we are determined to recover the debt by all means
如果說要一併取消長期服務金和遣散費，才可以取消強積金對沖機制，即是"左袋與右袋交換"，這是我們勞工界不可能答應的，除非我們是傻的。
If the MPF offsetting mechanism can be abolished only in conjunction with the abolition of long service payments and severance payments it is de facto putting the money in the left pocket to the right pocket . We from the labour sector are not that stupid to accept this arrangement
我相信政府也不是傻的，它不會拿這種方案跟我們"摸底"。
I think the Government is not stupid either and it will not offer us such an arrangement to touch base
有人說政府拿取消長期服務金和遣散費的方案跟工聯會"摸底"，這純粹是捕風捉影的說法。
Some people are saying that the Government has offered to the FTU this arrangement of abolishing long service payments and severance payment as an attempt at soft lobbying and I would say that these are groundless speculations
我們認為，長期服務金和遣散費都是僱主本身應承擔的成本。
In our view long service payments and severance payments are costs that should be borne by employers
不過，在制度轉變時給予僱主過渡性協助，由政府作出一定的財政承擔，我們不會反對。
Yet during the change of the system we do not oppose offering interim assistance to employers and the making of financial commitment by the Government
因此，我們會支持蔣麗芸議員的修正案。
Hence we will support Dr CHIANG Lai - wans amendment
我們不能支持這項修正案。
We cannot support this amendment
田北辰議員的修正案雖然未能全面兼顧"打工仔"的權益，只是提出取消遣散費的對沖安排，而沒有提出取消長期服務金的對沖安排，但我們認為田北辰議員的修正案是出於善意的。
As for Mr Michael TIENs amendment though it fails to give full regard to the interests of wage earners in which only the abolition of the offsetting arrangement for severance payment but not that for long service payment is proposed we consider Mr Michael TIENs amendment an act of goodwill
作為僱主，他最低限度願意走前一步，試圖平衡勞資雙方在這方面的矛盾，打破僵局。
As an employer himself he is at least willing to take a step forward to try to strike a balance in the disagreement between employers and employees and break the deadlock
因此，雖然我們不同意田北辰議員的修正案，但仍感謝他在這方面作出的努力。
So even though we disagree with Mr Michael TIENs amendment we appreciate the effort made by him in this aspect
此外，我要說明一點，對於劉小麗議員的修正案，工聯會議員是不會投票的。
Moreover I would like to clarify our stance concerning Miss LAU Siu - lais amendment that is Members from the FTU will not vote on her amendment
我亦希望商界朋友不要那麼激動，我們在這個問題上是可以商量的。
I also hope that friends in the business sector will not get too agitated for we can discuss the issue
如果大家都作理性討論，我希望能夠達成共識。
If we can come together for rational discussions I hope we can reach a consensus
在勞工議題上，現屆政府對全港300多萬名"打工仔"可謂欠債累累，無論是標準工時立法、取消強制性公積金對沖、爭取退休保障，以至檢討侍產假、統一法定假日和公眾假期，以及最低工資要一年一檢，均未"找數"。
Insofar as labour issues are concerned the current - term Government has owed the 3 million - odd wage earners in Hong Kong huge debts . Whether it be legislating for standard working hours abolition of the Mandatory Provident Fund MPF offsetting arrangement campaigning for retirement protection or even the review of paternity leave alignment of statutory holidays with general holidays and the annual review of the minimum wage the Government has yet repaid its debts
關於這些勞工權益，除了特首要負責外，今天前來本會的兩個政策局亦難辭其咎。
With regard to these labour interests apart from the Chief Executive who should be held responsible the two Policy Bureaux which are represented in this Chamber today can hardly be absolved of the blame
首先，在取消強積金對沖的議題上，今天前來本會的兩個政策局在現屆政府初期一直是太極推手的高手，互相推卸責任，持續了一年多兩年。
First of all on the abolition of the MPF offsetting arrangement the two Policy Bureaux which are represented in this Chamber today had been most adept at passing the buck to others since the beginning of the current - term Government and they had kept on doing so for a year or two
即使我們工聯會的議員不斷催促，兩個政策局仍不斷推卸，及至後期，特首指明兩個政策局都需要跟進，情況才稍為明朗。
Despite repeated urges by Members from the Federation of Trade Unions the two Policy Bureaux did not cease to shirk their responsibilities . It was only at a later time when the Chief Executive explicitly stated that both Policy Bureaux should follow up these issues that the situation became slightly clearer
主席，強積金至今已實施超過15年，其保障退休的成效，大家心中有數。
President MPF has been implemented for over 15 years and we all know how effective it is in terms of retirement protection
對於"打工仔"的保障，根本未能達到預期效果，單是2015年4月1日至2016年3月31日，已令"打工仔"白白供款，為甚麼？
It cannot in the least achieve the desired results in affording wage earners protection . From 1 April 2015 to 31 March 2016 alone the contributions made by wage earners all came to naught
以上年度為例，全港"打工仔"的強積金供款額是5,925億元，如果以1.58%計算，單是去年的管理費已是93億元，接近100億元，即每名"打工仔"的強積金戶口每年便要支付3,700元管理費。
Last year for instance the MPF contributions made by wage earners in Hong Kong amounted to 592.5 billion . If we use 1.58 % as the basis for calculation the management fee for last year alone was 9.3 billion which was close to 10 billion meaning that a management fee of 3,700 was paid out of the MPF account of each wage earner annually
如果政府不能處理和解答這些問題，根本無助透過強積金來保障僱員的退休生活。
If the Government fails to address and answer these questions MPF is actually not helpful to protecting the retirement life of employees
其實，當局引入這麼多個基金信託人來管理，不單是"捉隻老鼠入米缸"，而是捉了18隻老鼠入米缸，因為現時有18個受託人參與管理計劃。
In fact when the authorities have brought in so many MPF trustees to manage the schemes they are not only catching a rat and putting it into the rice urn but they are catching 18 rats and putting them into the rice urn because currently 18 trustees are engaged in the management of schemes
當中的原因包括缺乏競爭、收費透明度不足，以及欠缺公共信託人。
The reasons include inter alia a lack of competition a lack of transparency in the fees and the absence of a public trustee
近年很多老闆表示難以挽留人才。
In recent years many employers have claimed that it is difficult to retain talents
有些員工因而願意留在原來的機構繼續工作。
Some employees are therefore willing to stay working with the same company
但是，由於有對沖機制，無論是員工或僱主，解僱一方會肆無忌憚，辭職一方又會少了顧慮，對商界也絕非好事。
But given the offsetting mechanism employers are unrestrained in dismissing their employees whereas employees have less worries about resignation and this is absolutely not a good thing to the business sector
所以，如果商界真的想挽留人才，又抱怨人手不足的話，麻煩他們先取消強積金對沖機制。
Therefore if the business sector genuinely wishes to retain talents and complains about a shortage of manpower they might as well abolish the MPF offsetting mechanism as the first step
此外，我要順帶提出，政府作為全港最大僱主，亦有責任率先為其員工取消強積金對沖機制，才能回應社會訴求，同時發揮牽頭作用，作為其他僱主的仿效對象。
Incidentally I wish to point out that the Government as the biggest employer in Hong Kong is duty - bound to take the lead to abolish the MPF offsetting mechanism for its employees in order to answer social aspirations while playing the leading role of setting an example for other employers to follow
我 作為民主派議員的戰友，當然支持林卓廷議員，亦向他表示尊敬，因為這實在不是一件易事。
As a comrade of democratic Members I certainly support Mr LAM Cheuk - ting and treat him with respect because what he did is no easy task
我想廉署本身都是一個在社會制度內、在香港社會內吹哨子的人。
I believe ICAC itself is also a whistle - blower in our social system
廉署都是正為香港社會揭發社會內部是否有非法行為、不誠實行為、不正當行為，然後作跟進和舉報。
It discovers illegal dishonest or improper activities in Hong Kong and then conducts investigation on them and reports about them
香港勝在有ICAC、香港勝在有ICAC、香港勝在有ICAC，重要的說話要說3次。
Hong Kong Our Advantage is ICAC Hong Kong Our advantage is ICAC and Hong Kong Our advantage is ICAC . Important things should be said three times
在2014年，我與一些學者曾接受廉署委任，進行一個有關香港年輕人、澳門年輕人和廣州年輕人對鄰里決定的研究。
In 2014 I together with some scholars was appointed by ICAC to conduct a research on young people in Hong Kong Macao and Guangzhou regarding their attitude towards neighbourhood decision . Today I am not going to spend time on the result of that research
我今天不會花時間跟大家說該研究的結果，但我看到的是廉署認真地做這項研究，廉署非常認真地探討在急劇轉變的香港社會內，究竟香港的青年對廉潔和貪污的觀念有沒有轉變、如何作回應、如何可以杜漸防微；我看到廉署的同事真的為香港守着很重要的門。
But my experience gained from that research is that the ICAC officers are very conscientious about their work . They carefully looked into any changes in attitude that Hong Kong young people might have in this rapidly changing society towards integrity and corruption and how to respond to and prevent such negative changes if any . I saw how hard the ICAC officers have worked to safeguard this important gate of Hong Kong
我不知道若事件發生在其他公營部門或政府部門時，我們的關心是否相同、我們的力度是否相同、我們的抽心程度是否相同，但我肯定的是，事件發生在ICAC時，整個香港都為了"香港勝在有ICAC"這句話而感到震動。
I dont know if we will feel the same concerned and work the same hard if the same incident takes places in other public organizations or government departments . But one thing for sure is that all Hong Kong people are shaken to learn that this incident took place in ICAC because the slogan Hong Kong Our advantage is ICAC is deep - rooted in us
我認同大家都是愛護ICAC的人，而愛護ICAC的方法，跟林卓廷議員一樣，我認為最佳方法便是查根究底，得個明白。
I believe every one of us cherishes ICAC and the best way to cherish it which is the same way Mr LAM Cheuk - ting adopted is to find out the truth
我們可以沒有甚麼前提，無需很多前設，只不過我們真的很想走進去或邀請他們前來，問個清楚，最重要之處不是要滿足議員的好奇心，又或單單要履行議員的責任，而是讓香港人知道整件事的底蘊，並且還ICAC一個公道。
There can be no premise or precondition . All that we want to do is to go inside or invite them over to ask them what it is all about . Most importantly we seek not to satisfy our curiosity or fulfil our duty as Member but to let Hong Kong people know the details of the incident and to do ICAC justice
我希望大家不要神經兮兮地一聽到"獨立"便很緊張，ICAC本身就是獨立運作的，而這種獨立是我們一直以來皆認為是最重要的。
I hope that Members will not be oversensitive about the word independence . ICAC for instance operates independently and such independence has been of great importance to us
今天，林卓廷議員收到一些消息，指可能因為調查梁振英案件，所以會招徠一些打壓，甚至引起軒然大波。
Today Mr LAM Cheuk - ting received information saying that the investigation on the LEUNG Chun - ying case may be subject to some kind of pressure and may even lead to serious consequences
梁振英固然是一個問題，但破壞獨立是更大的問題。
LEUNG Chun - ying is certainly a problem but ruining this independence is a more serious problem
如果ICAC也不能獨立，如果ICAC也不能好像以前一樣是其是，非其非，如果ICAC也開始受到政治干擾、有案件以外的其他考量，這不單是ICAC的崩壞，而是香港的崩壞。
If ICAC cannot operate independently if it cannot say what is right as right and what is wrong as wrong and if it also starts to be subject to political interference such that it has to consider other factors in case investigation this is not only the collapse of ICAC but the collapse of Hong Kong
主席，首先，我注意到昨天有些同事就林卓廷議員提出的議案的發言內容有很多誤會，甚至在邏輯和次序上出現顛倒，尤其是在反對林卓廷議員的議案時，我留意到有很多同事用了以下的字眼，包括：指控、干預、抹黑。
President to begin with I noticed a great deal of misunderstanding or even illogicality and erroneous causal reasoning in some Members remarks concerning the motion moved by Mr LAM Cheuk - ting yesterday . In particular I noticed that when these Members expressed their disapproval of Mr LAM Cheuk - tings motion many of them used these words accusation intervention and tarnishing
但是，我希望指出，林議員其實只是建議引用《立法會條例》進行調查。
But I must point out that Mr LAM merely proposed the invocation of the Legislative Council Ordinance to launch an inquiry
所謂"調查"，必然是未有證據的，故此並不存在指控，更不會構成干預或抹黑。
Investigation necessarily implies that evidence has yet to be found . Hence an investigation is not an accusation and will not even constitute any intervention or tarnishing
調查的目的是為了找尋真相和監察該部門。
The objective of an investigation is to seek the truth and monitor the organization concerned
昨天，黃碧雲議員和尹兆堅議員已經詳細列出多項有關廉政公署在過去一段時間內出現的不尋常事件，我在此不再複述。
Yesterday Dr Helena WONG and Mr Andrew WAN already gave a very detailed account of various unusual happenings in the Independent Commission Against Corruption ICAC over some time in the past . I am not going to dwell on these happenings now
關鍵在於這些不尋常事件已經引起市民高度關注。
The crux of the matter is that these unusual happenings have come to arouse grave public concern
此外，昨天聽到多位議員皆對事件感到有疑問，亦未能知悉事實的全部。
Moreover yesterday I heard from the speeches of many Members that they were suspicious of the happenings and could not have a full picture of the facts
因此，我們已經有足夠的理解，認為現時這個問題已經屬於公共利益的層面。
Hence we should now fully understand that the matter has already come to involve public interests
所以，立法會為履行《基本法》第七十三條賦予的職權，是有責任就此事進行調查的。
Therefore in order to fulfil the powers and functions vested with the Legislative Council under Article 73 of the Basic Law we are duty - bound to investigate the matter