Wikipedia is all for references. Read everything I've ever said to you and you'll see that I would never deny that. I don't know who this "you guys" is, but I speak for myself, and have no stake in this fight. Believe me, I agree that Goethan, and Wisesabre and anyone else who has engaged in edit warring is being disruptive, but that includes you. Let's just say that you were to stop, and become the paragon of civility and restraint. It would make you a whole lot more cedible in your argument. Please, do try mediation. ·t