" 

 From December 2005 to March 2006 

  
 ==Template== 
 Sukh, I delved deeper into the matter, actually to ascertain what procedure had preceded your creation of the Indic template (none; am I right?), and I found that you have contributed vastly towards the creation of this page, which is a great help to all of us. Accept my kudos on that sterling contribution! Many of us contribute to editing WP, but you have done something systemic. 

 However, I still think it was premature/imprudent of you to clean out the well-intentioned work of other people before the matter was discussed on the deletion page. Coupled with the diligence with which you defend your Template:IndicText against the smallest imaginable change, the impression conveyed is unfortunately of superciliousness. However, I shall have nothing further to say on the matter except to urge you not to make the discussion majority-oriented, which will be vitiative and counter-productive (after all, we would like people to use the template without reservation) but rather to agree to some small changes in what is after all only a logo. My best regards,   

 :First of all, apologies for such a late reply - I completely missed your message!  And thank you for your kind words in regards to the help page.  And yes, you are right, there was no process to speak of when I made the template and help pages.  I was getting frustrated with people constantly changing Indic text to what they thought was right, so decided to do something about it.  The template has been very successful in educating users as to the problems although it only seems to make an impact when it is prominently placed on a page. 

 :I suppose my changes were arrogant (slightly!), however my rationale for changing the template was that it was used on perhaps four pages at most and my aim was to nip it in the bud before it spread.  I know in hindsight this might have seemed bad-natured, but I didn't expect such the anti-Gurmukhi logo response that I got.  Indeed, I thought using a minority script such as Gurmukhi would have actually helped stem the traditional north-south issues of Indian languages/scripts.  But, I was wrong, largely because most people still thought it was Devanagari! 

 :I have no problem in using a neutral logo of some sort (for example, my idea of a Brahmi character), however I have no want or need to actively change it.  If someone wants to come up with a replacement logo, I'd be more than happy to comment and indeed support it if it truely was a neutral logo.   | ਸੁਖ |   

 ::How about the Malayalam logo? It is also ""minority"" by your reckoning and not less ""neutral"" than Gurmukhi.   

 :::Would there be any point in changing it to Malayalam?  If it is no more neutral than Gurmukhi then it serves no purpose (other than to prove an extraneous point).  This applies equally to all other Indic scrips in use today.  However, as I said a Brahmi character or a sign such as a star would be neutral.   | ਸੁਖ |   

 ::::I actually only meant it as a kind of (perhaps facetious) joke, not seriously. On a serious note, I can tell you that the symbols convey no meaning to the general user. I don't consider myself stupid (I do say so myself) but I understood what meaning (maatraa-placement) was intended to be conveyed by the Gurmukhi only after the debate on this matter. Else the figures just looked like a logo/squiggle. You should seriously consider the other options (logo/flag/Brahmi), given that both syllable-symbols and maatra-symbols are different for different languages. Also, sorry I missed your message, having no idea you would reply here and not on my page.   

 :::::Indeed I agree, most users will not be familar with what is going on in the picture.  The same would apply to other Indic languages of course, because the logical ordering and complex rendering for Unicode is a relatively new thing. 

 :::::I don't think a flag will be appropriate.  Indic scripts include things like Tibetan and Thai which although descended from Brahmi, are not 'Indian'.  I have been dabbling with a Brahmi font, and I'll be sure to look into having a couple of options posted on the talk page (a mini-vote if you would).  I've added it to my to-do list, so hopefully it'll be done sooner rather than later.   |