::"I don't want a framework"... well, don't know how to say this, but thats just to damn bad.  I  decide what my suggestion are going to be, and to what specificity. I think the specifics should go at the end of a discussion, not the beginning.  You think I'm wasting time, well, my I suggest another hobby for you.  Some people like stamp collecting, maybe give it a try.  Your right to ask for soources, good thing there is NOT TIME LIMIT.  We'll work on that.  Meamwhile, it does seem to bother you that the section as is doesn't seem to conform to ANY OF THE CITED SOURCES. Could that because they tend to leed credence to some preheld belief of your?  JWF, I think this little squabble between us is silly and pointlees.  I'm much rather get back to a discussion of the sources, and what is mainstream.  But if you want to continue this stupid little tangant you started, fine.  But why not do it on our talk pages, I dont think any other editor give a damn about it.