" Is the NHC Awake? == 

 First off, they should have marked Tammy as a depression before turning into a tropical storm. Now, the miss Vince as a depression almost a tropical storm but luckily they have it for a hurricane.  So the questions is: Anyone awake at the NHC?  

 :No, Tammy should not have been marked as a depression. When it acquired tropical characteristics, its winds were already at tropical storm force, so it wasn't a depression when the NHC issued its first advisory. No, they are not sleeping. Vince is a remarkable entity that is not something anybody expected to monitor. Also keep in mind that, like you and me, the NHC is not perfect, but they do a darned good job. —  

 ::Well even if Tammy didn't have tropical characteristics it could have been labeled a suptropical storm.  As for Vince maybe it's the fact that it's not close to the Western Hemisphere and so no body tends to pay attention.  Again, it's all ethnocentrism at work and you cannot question that.  

 :::OK. First, Tammy didn't have a circulation before it was upgraded, but on the morning of whatever day it was, visible satellite showed a circulation. Since winds were high, it could bypass the depression stage. Second, what if Vince didn't develop any more? What if it had well organized convection, and it dissipated? They said in the outlooks that it would be monitored for more organization, and when they upgraded, it was better organized. They are not sleeping, they don't want to upgrade something that might just dissipate. What if they upgraded Tammy as a Subtropical Storm, but it never got a well-organized circulation? They would raise hype for nothing. Any other storms you have a problem with?   

 I think they already admitted they missed Vince.  I'm guessing because it was out in the middle of nowhere they didn't even think to investigate it until the satellite images showed it had clearly taken tropical attributes.   

 Okay, first I have no problems with storms. The NHC has monitored depression even if they don't develop but it's the fact that they could is why they monitor them.  Unless of course you didn't catch that in their job description.  I am not shooting down the NHC I am giving them construtivce critism.  They are after all in charge of informing us about potential dangerous storms.  So Hurricanehink maybe you should read between the lines.   

 : To be a tropical cyclone, a system must have 
 :* A closed surface circulation; 
 :* Organized thunderstorm activity; and 
 :* A warm core. 
 : If the first two conditions are met but the storm lacks a warm core it may be classified as a subtropical storm.  Tammy was a strong low pressure system but lacked a closed surface circulation until the morning of Oct. 5.  The NHC had been mentioning it in their Topiclal Weather Outlook bullitens, but until it gained a closed circulation they could not classify it as a tropical cyclone.  You should look at the histories of tropical storms.  Most tropical cyclones start out as tropical cylones with 25 or 30 kt winds.  So only minimal strengthenning (to 35 kt) is needed to have them qualify as a tropical storm.  As was the case with Tammy, it is possible for a system to become tropical when it already has 35 kt or greater winds, in which case it immediately is a tropical storm.  This is not usual, but it does happen. 
 : So I assure you that the NHC was on top of Tammy.  If there are areas of concern, they are the way Vince sneaked up on them, and perhaps more so the hurricane that struck Brazil in March 2004.  (It seems that noone is responsible for the South Atlantic, which is unfortuate given that hurricanes while rare there do on occasion happen.)  |   

 ::Then why not mention it as a subtropical cyclone? That's the point I'm getting to.  

 ::: I will assume that you are refering to Tammy.  Until the morning of 10/5, Tammy lacked a closed circulation, and therefore was not a cyclone of either the tropical or subtropical variety.  Period.  Whether you approve of it or not, the NHC got Tammy right.  |   

 ::By the way has anyone seen the NHC lately? Their graphics seem to end close to Europe and Africa you can see it for wind prob. and tracking for Vince. 

 This argument is crazy. Whoever acused the NHC with being asleep should be ashamed of themselves. The guys at the NHC work around the clock to keep us safe. Without them, hundreds of thousands instead of a thousand would be dead in New Orleans ri