"DO NOT EDIT OR POST REPLIES TO THIS PAGE. THIS PAGE IS AN ARCHIVE. 

 This archive page covers approximately the dates between April 2005 and July 2005. 

 Post replies to the main talk page, copying the section you are replying to if necessary.   

 Archived discussions: 

 * Talk:Voluntary Student Unionism/Archive 1/Archive 1, Talk:Voluntary Student Unionism/Archive 1/Archive 2 

  

 Hrmm, 3 paragraphs for VSU, 7 against. This seems a little biased. I'll try and beef up the pro side if I know the zealots won't delete it. 

  

 how many universities would be effected by Federal enactment of VSU?   

 All of the publicly owned ones (ie. not Bond or ACU;): to my knowledge, there's not a single public uni in Australia where student organisation membership is currently optional.   

 ==Motivations of the ALSF== 

 The article states (or should state): 

 *Liberal Students argue strongly for VSU on the basis of freedom of association and other grounds; 
 *They deny the charge that they are arguing for VSU on the basis of political disadvantage for their opponents; 
 *VSU advocates on the other hand consistently and routinely accuse Liberals of  supporting the change for political motivations. 

 I will undo any changes to the article that do not substantially agree with this situation, as it is simply a matter of objective fact, favouring no particular side.   

 ===== 

 I don't know why you are bringing so much politics into this.  

 ""Liberal Students argue strongly for VSU on the basis of freedom of association and other grounds"" 

 Thats a very big blanket statement. So you are saying Liberal Students, as a whole, fit your reasoning? You can't possibly know that unless you have questioned every one. Thats what I'm objecting to. FYI I'm not a liberal, and wish Latham had won. I do support freedom of choice. 

 By the way, I apoligize for the 'commie' remark. 

 :That's perfectly alright. Politics plays a very large part in this: it is a point of conflict over the government's legislation after all, and was debated by both sides in the House of Representatives and the Senate when it came up, with the Liberals arguing in favour of VSU and Labor arguing in favour of USU. At the last election, the ALP's policy supported USU and the Coalition supported VSU. 

 ::Yes, but you are missing my point. I objected to the blanket language that implied that _all_ students who identified as X thought Y.   

 :And the ""freedom of choice"" argument really only appears because some students argue that they should be free to choose not to support the politics of their student organisation.  

 ::Hang on, I don't follow you here. Personally I think that Student Unions should stay out of politics not directly relating to education. Even if the unions didn't play politican, I still would support VSU. If some students want bands, clubs, so-called subsidised food etc, they should pay for it themselves. The ""Freedom of Choice"" argument still applies even if you ignore the political side of things.  

 By contrast, if a Liberal group gained control of a USU supporter's student organisation, that USU supporter would still not argue in favour of VSU because they still support USU philosophically (as indeed has happened at a few campuses). So the ""freedom of choice"" argument is underlined by differences in political opinion. If there was no objection to the political content, the advocates wouldn't be arguing the need to make the choice. 

 :: I disagree. See above. 

  
 :The point is, I'm not taking a stand one way or the other over whether Liberals *are* supporting it for political motivations, I'm saying that USU supporters *say* that Liberals are supporting it for political motivations (Many sources for this: virtually every NUS press release argues this point).  If, as you say, you're not a Liberal, this clearly doesn't apply to you. The article mentions that VSU supporters deny this claim. NPOV policy simply requires that we detail the substance of both sides' arguments without putting a judgement on their validity.   

  

 (. . .) 

 :Hi, Anon.  In future, please use headings and sign your posts, otherwise this talk page just gets messy.    

 Well it appears that any time I try a