:::::: I think you miss my point. Appearances do matter. We judge on outcomes, not intents. If a (random) article is a horribly biased and poorly written, it doesn't matter whether the authors had the best of intentions or the worst, we need to fix it. It is not a violation of AGF to point out the issues. This is true of processes as much as it is of articles. If a process consistently produces results we find flawed, it doesn't matter whether the process developers had the best of intentions or the worst, we need to fix it. If the very process of editing in the CC/AGW area is difficult because of perceived issues of control, it needs fixing. I am willing to AGF and assume that those who are causing the problem in this don't intend to, and don't think that they are. But they have been told about this over and over. In fact this is a goodly aspect of why there is an enforcement regime in the first place. If after being told there is a perception problem, that editors shudder to interact with them, that they are perceived as condescending, and they are unwilling to change their approach, that is where we run out of AGF, for at that point, once the problem has been surfaced, they are no longer being collegial. Read the diff Cla gave again, carefully and see the condescension there. Read the survey I pointed you to, and evaluate the results. Slide 18 is very significant. It's not the UI that keeps editors from returning, it's the editing environment. That needs to change, or Wikipedia will enter a period of decline. If it hasn't already. NO amount of high profile funding will change it, if editors are gradulally drifting away and not being replaced at an adequate rate. ++: /  

  
 That's not a violation of