:::I think you're misunderstanding what diffusing means. American politicians is not non-diffusing, African-American politicians is. A non-diffusing cat is one which doesn't remove contents from the parent. A cat can be non-diffusing on one parent and diffusing on another. Secondly, absolutely ergs trees should be 'less navigable' - otherwise you'd have to reproduce the whole generic tree in gender and ethnicity and religion as well, which would cause complications even worse than we have now. There is a limit, we simply disagree on where that line is. Now, of course an EGRS cat can be diffused (ex:by nationality, by job) but the cat itself - and importantly, all of the contents, no matter how deeply nested, - must always be non-diffusing on any neutral parent. Do you understand the difference? One is a description looking up the tree, the other is going down the tree - so obviously Women can be diffused, but it _must_ be non-diffusing on People. Where it gets confusing is where people want to create a subcategory that is diffusing in one tree and non-diffusing in another - like women in forestry is diffusing of women by occupation, but it's non-diffusing of people in forestry - and that's where last rung rule and other ergs guidelines come into play. (Fwiw, i read your cites on forestry and am simply not convinced they cover the broad sweep of that category)  these mezzanine cats also pose a big risk because by simply adding them to a new neutral parent you can immediately ghettoize all of their contents without even realizing it.  Finally as to your points on peas and corn etc, you seem to think that if we group people by X, we can group women by X. This is really deeply wrong, and I really wish you'd understand why. A gendered or ethnic category -even a container - has a much higher bar, if we could do gender + arbitrary container category this would add thousands of cats to the tree. We should not, we should focus such containers to cases where we can establish that the container is itself an object of study, or utility containers like X by nationality. Otherwise we are implicitly making a claim of importance not backed up by sources. I don't target gender cats, I target all bad cats, it just so happens I have a special eye for useless gender cats having done lots of deghettoization, it frustrates me to see these lying about and I think it's bad for the wiki, and my record is pretty good, the cfd crowd seems to agree with the bulk of my proposals. I also create gendered cats sometimes, or help rearrange trees, I recently did some work unwinding princes and princesses for example, so I'm not against them, I'm just picky, unlike our friend Ottawa who has created many dozens, stuffed one person inside and then gone away. I think care should be taken before creating a gendered cat and the ghettoization potential negative is much worse than any marginal navigational benefit in many cases.