Is god real

Thanks Pro, I thought you were going to forfeit. Fine Tuning Pro gives us a source from the ICR claiming the earth is fine tuned for life. This doesn't support his original claim that the universe itself is fine tuned, only the earth. Claiming the earth is fine tuned suffers from another problem. We have quite a few planets in our universe. It's not too improbable that life will come to be on one. NASA has a project to discover planets that could hold carbon based life. They have found planets earth sized planets that can hold water [http://www.nasa.gov...]. We must realize, this is a fairly new project and is only searching a small part of the universe! Imagine what we would find if we could examine every planet in the universe. Also keep in mind my rebuttals from the last round are still valid and uncontested, except for the multiverse, which he briefly touched on. He asks, where did the multiverse come from? This presumes the multiverse had to be created. We have no knowledge of the laws in a multiverse, if it exists, there's no reason why the multiverse overall must've came from somewhere. Especially if this multiverse has an infinite amount of universes. Cosmological Argument Pro quotes the ICR giving a version of the cosmological argument. First, under the mainstream interpretation of quantum mechanics, vacuum fluctuations come into being with no cause at all. “In the everyday world, energy is always unalterably fixed; the law of energy conservation is a cornerstone of classical physics. But in the quantum microworld, energy can appear and disappear out of nowhere in a spontaneous and unpredictable fashion.” - [Davies, Paul. 1983. God and the New Physics] “Uncaused, random quantum fluctuations in a flat, empty, featureless space-time can produce local regions with positive or negative curvature.” - Victor Stenger [http://www.colorado.edu...]. Lastly, why does this cause have to be sentient? Here are various possible alternatives to a God Non-sentient force Why can't the cause be an immaterial, causeless, eternal, powerful, spaceless, timeless, uncaused, non-sentient force that randomly creates things? Since this force was eternally creating things, one day the inevitable happened, energy, space, and time was created in a powerful reaction destroying everything including this force to create the two. The rest is history. Why should we think God caused the Universe instead of this force? Ekpyrotic Universe This model says “...our current universe arose from a collision of two three-dimensional worlds (branes) in a space with an extra (fourth) spatial dimension.” [http://wwwphy.princeton.edu...] The cause could have been just a collision of two universes in a cyclic way. Why accept God over the Ekpyrotic model? Retro-Causality This is the idea that the effect can happen before the cause. Such a thing is observed in quantum mechanics [http://arstechnica.com...] [http://arxiv.org...]. Why couldn’t this be the cause? Why accept God over retro-causality? Simultaneous causation Pro states “The universe could not have created itself using natural processes because nature did not exist before the universe came into existence.” However, think about this. What if the cause of the universe and nature was simultaneously caused? It is perhaps true that a natural cause can’t cause it in the way we usually view causality, but that is not the case if it was simultaneously caused. Three states of the universe come into being at the same time, State A causes B, which causes state C, which causes state A; all at the same time. The cause and effect exist simultaneously, all having causal explanations. Why accept God over simultaneous causation? Special thanks to L.A. Mitchell for coming up with this. Pro’s arguments are refuted. Back to Pro.