John Lennon's Song- Imagine is a Utopia

Thank you for offering this debate, I am happy to accept. Among other things, it gives me an excuse to listen to this extraordinary song again, and to clear up a misconception Con holds in common with many people who criticize atheistic/ skeptical/ free thought. John Lennon wrote Imagine to describe a world that had given up the limited fear based thoughts of national and religious jingoism. I hold that the song is very much a Utopian future- except in those nations for which it is in fact the present. 1st Objection by Con to Imagine is the line “nothing to kill or die for”, which you somehow take to mean having no “point to even living”. As a first argument, the point to living is obvious- when you consider the alternative. Further, the lyric is in a verse that points out no countries – i.e. no nation states that can make you kill or die for, say political convenience or profiteering. It doesn’t describe 'principles or relations'. I and many people like me wake up every day- for something that WE CHOOSE. Believe me, that is a great place to live. And Con, you are wrong about the brotherhood- a brotherhood is in fact the willingness to protect your fellows. In a society where that is the norm, it becomes unnecessary to anyone to kill or to be killed, as people who respect each other don't have a motive to hurt others. Next, in what should have been the second point, con asks if you have no greed or hunger, is that the point? Well, YES. Again the alternative to having no hunger is to be hungry (in the songs context of world scale poverty and famine), which sucks by comparison. Next you seem to conflate greed and ambition, which in the context of Imagine are not synonymous. In a quick bit of advice- your hypothetical gold wedding band can handle the fire- better to wait and recover it safely. Again, ambition and greed should not be equivalent. One can have ambition that has nothing in common with being grasping, envious and coveting. Lennon himself was rich, from creating great works of art, and never was even vaguely miserly. Compete for a job all you want, but if it goes to your competitor, don't wail at the heavens- go get another job. 2nd Objection- The claim of a lack of diversity. I frankly don't know how you managed to hear a song that is an anthem to reason and forbearance and got that it called for the annihilation of diversity instead of removing divisive loyalties and Us vs Them mentalities. You made a few direct objections, not being able to fly to a country or explore a religion. May I suggest flying to a city and meeting the people, or exploring art and mythology, as all religions really are? And as far as wars being worth keeping the religion, that statement is wrong enough to be worth its own debate- the wars directly caused by religion are numberless, while those caused by art or philosophy? We are still waiting. It is tyranny that Imagine opposes, not diversity. It is obedience that authoritarian states want, and conformity instead of what you called 'clear expression' that religion preaches. Overall, Imagine calls for a world where people respect and aid one another, not killing each other for ideas or ideology. It wants people to to cherish, to care for, to love each other, and to allow for free thought in ways priests and warlords instinctively despise. This world will be rich and peaceful and free. I will close with a quote of my own. "A believer is a bird in a cage. A freethinker is an eagle parting the clouds with tireless wing." - Robert Ingersollhttp://youtu.be...