Alcoholics Anonymous is NOT a cult

Thank you for your response, and an interesting yet repetative debate. "So clearly, concern does necessarily mean that there is danger." This is a sad effort on my opponents part. When you read the previous paragraph, the article states the following: "Many members, former members, and supporters of cults are not fully aware of the extent to which members may have been manipulated, exploited, even abused." These are all, for the most part, and in most cases, a bad thing. Clearly the word "Concern" in this context must be applied as something that is dangerous. "I just believe that they are irrelevant to the debate" My opponent has made no efforts as to explain WHY it is irrelevant, and when my opponent has used the secular AA groups as a clear cut method of trying to argue that Atheists can be included into AA she clearly is arguing about Atheists and whether atheists can get sober. My opponent had no problem arguing about AA and atheists, yet when the question arises, she refuses to answer on the grounds that "we shouldnt argue about AA and atheists because it is irrelevant", which is a clear contradiction. "Alcohol is the foe here, not the Higher Power." Not once have i claimed the higher power to be the foe. However, read the rest of the 12 steps. "...were powerless over alcohol..." "...ready to have God remove all these defects...." "...asked Him to remove our shortcomings." These people believe that the only way they can overcome their alcohol problem is to submit to a higher power to remove their defect. Therefore, they are helpless against this Higher power and want to ask him to intervene to help them. Otherwise, they could not possibly overcome this problem. "AA is based on the 12 Steps. If a group were to reject the 12 Steps and adopt a different approach, it would not be AA." Bingo. The secular system has removed itself from the 12 step program and has essentially separated itself from the core of AA. Therefore, the secular AA system is not a part of the original AA system and can be seen as a different recovery program, such as the Mcleod Center and Black Mountain treatment Center. "therefore, as a whole, they are not a cult." Based on the definition you gave, to which i agreed, they are. Must i bring the dictionaries definition up again? Rebuttal 2. Oh, how convenient. You claim that Raelism is a cult, but then dont bother going into that despite it being a very important point. Oh, and by the way, many sects of Christianity fit quite a lot of the check marks on that list. "displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader" Check(The pope, priests, etc) "Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged" Check(Excommunication) "Mind-altering practices" Check(Prayer, chanting, faith healing) "dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel" Definitely a Check "polarized us-versus-them mentality" Check for a few sects of Christianity "not accountable to any authorities" Catholic church, check (Pedophile priest scandal, where the church shuffled the priests around to resist arrest and/or hinder investigation by police) "induces feelings of shame and/or guilt" Definitely Check "I respect and realize that the phrase Higher Power could mean many different things;" I never claimed that the phrase "Higher Power" could not mean anything but God. However, i find it funny that my opponent first said: "Do you have evidence that most people equivalent wording?" to "I do not jump to any conclusions and attempt to represent a larger group." So, even if i were to present evidence, you would have rejected it? Thats nice to know. "I ask you, what evidence do you have to back up this claim?" The evidence you presented for what a higher power could mean, is dependant on the persons beliefs. A christian would not consider a higher power to mean "The government", and would instantly point to a God. Since the majority of the USA identify themselves as christian(1), it is safe to assume that the majority do infact think of God when the word "Higher power" is mentioned. My opponent has said it herself, that when the word "Higher power" is mentioned, she instantly turns to the word "God" because of her christian background. "They are not endorsing a particular religion." But they are endorsing a particular form of worship and devotion. Websters dictionary has the following to say on Cults(2): "5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : the object of such devotion c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion" "I went above and beyond to demonstrate that there is a wide variety of "Higher Power"" And AA member 10's higher power is this cup. Sure, you can equate higher power to anything. However, how many do you think will equate a higher power to a cup? And how many to God? Thank you very much. "Aside from fellowship and sociability, the prime object was to provide a time and place where new people might bring their problems" And what do you think Confessions are in church? "AA has been around for 74 years and will continue to help alcoholics to achieve sobriety for probably many years to come." No one has argued that AA was ineffective. This point is moot, and this only serves to promote AA instead of actually argue anything about whether or not AA can be considered as a Cult. "However, I do not feel that Midtown is practicing the traditional AA program. They have hijacked the AA name and are using it to their advantage." So, there is an instance where AA became a cult. And clearly this means that there is also a possibility that other locations of AA groups could also become cults. I believe this completely disregards your original contention of how "AA is NOT a cult". I thank my opponent for this debate. However, there are problems which i shall address in a final note. The checklist my opponent provided, may be useful to determine if a particular religious sect is a cult. However, this fact utterly fails when religions like Christianity fit more than one, and definitely many, of the points. Under the normal day-to-day usage of the word "Cult", i would not call Christianity as such. However, i would also, under the same usage of the word, not consider Raelism as a cult either. My opponent has claimed that she would call Raelism a Cult, which is great, because Christianity also fits many of the points on the checklist, especially the southern baptist religious extremists. But i wouldn't call any of them Cults either. When you consider these facts, all belief systems that are sought after have the ability to become cults and can be viewed as cults by certain people, the contention of "Alcoholics anonymous is NOT a cult" is utterly false. This doesn't mean that they are definitely a cult. This means that no one could not and should not claim that AA could not possibly be a cult. Source: 1. http://en.wikipedia.org... 2. http://www.merriam-webster.com...