'once saved always saved' v 'never saved to begin with' is too uncertain. only God knows

we cannot know a person's heart. they may show works or they may not. or, their works may not be viewed by us to be good. ["] for an average joe. many christians live lives no different than nonchristians. even if they live a life a bit better, who are we to say whether they are saved or not? -Very true. But we know or can witness someone by their fruit. -"15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. [Mathew 7:15-19] hitler was a christian. he thought he was doing what was right for his people. we cannot judge his heart, though we can characterize his situation and perhaps he was not saved after all, as it looks like. -Hitler was not a Christian. -"You are right that Hitler did mention Christianity many times in his writings. He paid Christianity a lot of lip service in Mein Kampf, and he claimed to be a Christian. But Hitler's secretary, Martin Bormann, also declared that "National Socialism [Nazism] and Christianity are irreconcilable" and Hitler didn't squawk too much about it. Similarly, Hermann Rauschning, a Hitler associate, said, "One is either a Christian or a German. You can't be both." In addition, Hitler declared Nazism the state religion and the Bible was replaced by Mein Kampf in the schools. Historian Paul Johnson wrote that Hitler hated Christianity with a passion, adding that shortly after assuming power in 1933, Hitler told Hermann Rauschnig that he intended "to stamp out Christianity root and branch." As Hitler grew in power, he made other anti-Christian statements. For example, he was quoted in Hitler: A Study in Tyranny, by Allan Bullock, as saying: "I'll make these damned parsons feel the power of the state in a way they would have never believed possible. For the moment, I am just keeping my eye upon them: if I ever have the slightest suspicion that they are getting dangerous, I will shoot the lot of them. This filthy reptile raises its head whenever there is a sign of weakness in the State, and therefore it must be stamped on. We have no sort of use for a fairy story invented by the Jews." http://www.straightdope.com... tihs doesn't even get into the fact that according to the bible, a person can lose their salvation. such as the seed that took the word but wasplanted on bad soil and never got far. i could go on and on. -No, a Christian cannot lose salvation. Nothing can separate a Christian from God"s love (Romans 8:38-39). Nothing can remove a Christian from God"s hand (John 10:28-29). God is both willing and able to guarantee and maintain the salvation He has given us. Jude 24-25, "To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy"to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen." [http://www.gotquestions.org...] some people can seem saved and then later turn into vipers. doe that mean they were neversavd to begin with? i don't think so. but even if it was 'either they were or they weren't, it's not our place to say. -21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'" [Mathew 7:21-23] i know a christians who was beautiful at what he did. but now ihe is worldy and an avowed atheist. i'm sure his mom owuld lik to think h was was saved always saved, but how can any of us know if he was never saved to begin with or if behind that cloak he is still saved? only God can know. -The most frequent objections to the belief that a Christian cannot lose salvation are 1) What about those who are Christians and continually live an immoral lifestyle? 2) What about those who are Christians but later reject the faith and deny Christ? The problem with these two objections is the phrase "who are Christians." The Bible declares that a true Christian will not live a continually immoral lifestyle (1 John 3:6). The Bible declares that anyone who departs the faith is demonstrating that he never truly was a Christian (1 John 2:19). Therefore, neither objection is valid. Christians do not continually live immoral lifestyles, nor do they reject the faith and deny Christ. Such actions are proof that they were never redeemed. [http://www.gotquestions.org...] Furthering my arguments: the term "Christian" must be defined. A "Christian" is not a person who has said a prayer, or walked down an aisle, or been raised in a Christian family. While each of these things can be a part of the Christian experience, they are not what "makes" a Christian. A Christian is a person who has, by faith, received and fully trusted in Jesus Christ as the only Savior (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8-9). ["] A Christian is promised eternal life. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16). Eternal life is a promise of eternity (forever) in heaven with God. God promises, "Believe and you will have eternal life." For a Christian to lose salvation, eternal life would have to be taken away. If a Christian is promised to live forever, how then can God break this promise by taking away eternal life? [http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com...] You are either saved or not. I would also like to point out that you have not supplied any Biblical Evidence.