Everything is an illusion.

Thank you again for debating this with me. I will try to be considerate and respectful over the course of this debate, as I also believe in God, albeit a rather different God from the one you promulgate; also, I believe in respectful behavior in general. My real name is on of your names of God, by the way (but don't tell anyone). Now the contentions start. Before I begin, please note that I will try to be most respectful of your experiences, although I believe them to be false and possibly the work of an evil spirit (no offense intended). However, I have had no such experiences and a great many that on the other hand confirm my belief in the traditional evangelical doctrine of Christ's humanity and deity and dualism. As a result, convincing me (or anyone else on this website) will require evidence outside your personal experience. To begin with, you claim that our creator is not visible to man because "we're nothing but information within His mind." How is that so? If God can create illusions of saints, could He not create an illusion of Himself, or make it obvious that He exists, as the whole illusion is contained (and obviously generated) by His mind? Diving into your plethora of verses: You say that "I will underline some key phrases in these scriptures to help you understand that they are not about the flesh of a man. It's about the knowledge of God, also know as the spirit of God that gives life to God's people called men." So, in examining each verse we must evaluate whether these verses truly do refer to the spirit of God, and more importantly whether that indicates that everything is an illusion, which is what we are debating. John 6:63 John is right. The flesh without the spirit profits nothing. Without the Spirit we are dead in sin. This doesn't help you, bornofgod. John 1 Your point in quoting selected verses seems to be that the Word (Christ) had life and light in Him. Christ was the Life and the Light. I agree. But that is a little beside the point. You are trying to prove that everything is an illusion. Elsewhere you have stated that good and evil are both an illusion. Now, in the 5th verse it says, according to your translation: "The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it." In verse 4, which you underlined, the text states that "the life was the light of men." These two passages show that there is light, that life is a symbol for life, that the darkness is attempting to overcome the light/life, and that the darkness has failed. This contradicts your doctrine that evil is an illusion. Also, John 1:3 says that "all things were made through him," without the slightest hint that those things were illusions. Verse 12-13: Believers are children of God, born of the Spirit. I agree, though our interpretations are slightly different. Again, none of this indicates that everything is an illusion. Verse 18 does not support your onus either. This verse states that no one has seen God, but that the only Son (Christ), has made made Him known. In other words, Christ is revealing the Person of God in Himself. Verse 14 testifies to the truth of Christ's Sonship, that He is the Word and the Son of God. None of this necessitates or aids your doctrines. The text indicates that although God is invisible and was not seen in His heavenly form, Jesus Christ, the Son, came down and man beheld His glory. (John 1:14) Colossians 1 "He is the image of the invisible God . . ." Sorry to press the point, but this verse again is making the point that Christ was the very Image of God, His Divine Son, in Whom all things were created. No illusions presented here. Note that 16 says that all things were created, "In heaven and on earth, visible and invisible," again presenting the truth just as we'd expect to see it if God had indeed created the world and if the world was real. If you believe that Christ was not Jesus, that Christ was never a man, then you are misconstruing all these verses. Look at John 1:14: "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us," after we have already learned from John 1:1 that the word was God. It is obvious that God became flesh, and that that flesh was the Man Jesus. 1. the Word was God (John 1:1) 2. the Word became flesh (a man) (John 1:14) 3. Therefore, God became flesh (a man) That was logic. Unless you doubt John's gospel you cannot deny what I have just proven. You claim that the Word was knowledge, pure and simple. But read John 1:1: " . . . the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Your stance has no biblical basis. Jeremiah 15:15 This is a reference to the Babylonian army. The Babylonians were an immoral people who were later destroyed through God's judgement. (Jeremiah 50:18) The Babylonians spoke a different language. Here you are totally taking the verse out of context and inserting your own meaning, which is quite wrong. By the way, I think you got the reference on this one wrong, because I looked it up and could not find the verse. Ephesians 1 The "saints" are believers. This speaks of God foreknowing and making known "wisdom and insight" to believers. This does not contradict your doctrines, but neither can it be taken as proof, as "ordinary" Christians everywhere interpret these verses in the context of a real universe. Your belief concerning God's chosen believers is not very pertinent to the matter at hand. I John 4 This is my favorite book of the bible, by the way. But it doesn't help your "illusion doctrine" any more than the other passages. It speaks of the "world" and nonbelievers speaking to the world, and believers listening to the truth. Nothing about illusions. Closing out: I am a believer in the philosophy held (unconsciously or not) by all Christians called Dualism. Dualism maintains that there is a spirit world AND a physical world. I look forward to answering your next set of arguments. By the way, I think it is worth noting that you think at least some things are not an illusion. The Word is not an illusion, is it? Neither is God. Therefore, from your worldview you cannot really uphold the onus in this debate, as you do not fully believe it yourself. I will still debate everything else with you, but I thought this should be noted. Remember, you have to prove that "Everything is an illusion." Go ahead with your videos, but please make them less than 15 minutes in length as I am fairly busy at the moment. Thanks again. ||| | || ||| Signing off-- ... pp --- .. =:','"" . , ,. , --\|??\/\./ James14