That God does not exist

Please accept my sincere apologies about being slow to reply to this round. For some reason I didn't get the usual 'it's your turn to debate' email.1. The attributes of perfectionMy opponent states I have not named any. Actually, if he had read my case carefully he would note that I have already named and justified two: omniscience and omnipotence. My opponent has also mentioned one that I have not argued against - omnipresence. Niether my opponent nor myself needed a dictionary to get these. We worked them logically from the dictionary definition. As I said last round: "If God's nature is ultimate power, then it logically follows that any expression of power is in the nature of God. "However, since my opponent insists I cite a source to show my definition, see here: . http://dictionary.reference.com... . As you will note, there are 3 definitions. The first is pretty much 'being perfect. ' The second is 'the highest degree of potency, skill or excellence' which is exactly what I'm saying. Highest degree of potency = omnipotent. The third is 'a perfect embodiment. ' If you look at what religions believe, it is the same. The Catholic Encyclopedia, to use a Christian example, states omnipotence is a divine attribute of God's perfection (. http://www.newadvent.org...). That's true for all the Abrahamic, as well as the vast majority of other religions (. http://en.wikipedia.org...) - almost all believe that God's perfection lends itself to omnipotence. When we say 'wow God, that blueberry pie you just gave me was perfect' or 'Adam was made perfect' or anything like that, we are using this third definition. We are referring to specific aspects of their characters - perfect male human, perfect blueberry pie. However, these characters are still limited because they import attributes (ie human attributes, blueberry attributes) that are not perfect. The question is which definition is better. Obviously that depends on what we are calling perfect. I defined God in two ways - perfection for eternity. Eternal being does not import attributes on perfection. Since there are no attributes to import, we cannot claim them on God. In round one my opponent did attempt to impart additional attributes on God: his own morality. He never told you, however, why following moral codes, which limit you to not do certain things, makes you more optimal. He never told us why his morality is absolute like perfection. Therefore this contention cannot stand. It seems clear, therefore, that the second definition is logically relevant. Since I am using an earlier definition than my opponent, it is more primary than my opponent's too. If bicycles could fly, they would be more perfect. If bicycles were flying about, then we would also claim the bicycle is more complete than all those silly land-based models because it can both fly AND go on land. If I could meow like a cat I would indeed be more successful because I could accomplish more. Doing more with less is what makes something a success. If I drew a lady so perfect that she could jump out of the painting, say "thanks for making me" and walk away, then that painting would be better than Da Vinci's - and therefore, more perfect. And finally - "That's because any imperfect entity would be more complete, flawless and successful by being able to do more" is not a typo. For a perfect entity to be able to do more is completely nonsensical.2. What do you mean I can't be a squirrel! ?Let me run through this one more time. A squirrel is not perfect. By becoming a squirrel, God must limit its perfection. By limiting its perfection, God becomes imperfect, or flawed, in that it is a squirrel. Therefore a perfect entity can't be a squirrel, or any other limiting creature. Besides, it isn't in the nature of being perfect to not be perfect. Even if Satan (or any other malevolent power) was to say to God: "Change into a squirrel or my diabolical plan to destroy Earth will come to fruition," God couldn't meet the demand. It is forced to do something else, like use its omnipotent power to foil the plot. It would not be in the nature of God to not be perfect, even for an instant. Remember God must be continually equally perfect for eternity. What does "better" mean? I've told you. More optimal. If philanthropy is better than murder, then a philanthropist would be more perfect than a murderer. First you'd have to establish that philanthropy is better than murder, though (what about cases like the death penalty or war). There are some things, however, that are indubitably better than the alternative, such as being all-powerful. Squirrels (at least the kind I know) do not have this feature and so are not perfect. Dieties do have this feature and are perfect.3. Dammit, now I'm predestined to reply. I'd like to know how my opponent actually knows the future. I rather suspect he's making an educated guess based on the fact I wrote a rule against it so wouldn't forfeit. However, what if my laptop breaks down? What if I collapse and am rushed to hospital for three days of intensive surgery? What if I discover Narnia and go exploring for 3 days? In all of these circumstances (and many more), I am not going to respond. My opponent doesn't know. It might not even be my choice, as it is not the choice of the Sun to rise. God is a bit better than that - God actually knows. While my opponent's 'knowing' doesn't rule out the alternative, God's knowing does because it is impossible for God to be wrong. When it comes to elections, God knows who I'm going to vote for. That means I have to vote for that party. I am still offered the voting paper with the choice on it. However, that does not mean I have the choice. I might think I have the choice, but I don't because in seeing the future, God has determined the future. In that chess game, my crystal ball has determined my choice. I still go through the process of deciding, but really the decision has already been made. I am not free to vote for any party other than the party God knows I will vote for. I am not free to make any moves except those leading to fool's mate. If God had said to me "Lars, you will post your next round" I am not free to do otherwise. As I mentioned, predestination cannot be true for God. God must be able to make its choices because otherwise it would not be all-powerful to choose. But in having the power to make the choice (as opposed to my inability to choose only what is preordained), it contradicts its ability to see the future. I'm very much looking forward to reading my opponent's final statements. I appreciate the effort he has put in this debate.