The Christian God exists (2)

Hey Superbowl, I really think I might have you thinking a little, which is great for you. Really I mean that. Until you start realising the proofs (ok not CCTV, physical etc) in a reasoned and calm way, it's hard to start out I know, because starting from a position of extreme scepticism needs time and reading and reflection. It's not easy for sure. I may not convince you of anything, but to maybe let you know why people believe it. Firstly, I just wanted to maybe straighten a couple of things out. Now, for many centuries, believe me, of considered philosophy and debate on the subject of the Origins and meaning of life, there really has been only 2 positions to take on the subject. Theism was really the default position for many reasons and much discussion on the whys and hows and meaning of creation and life etc. So it is a considered subject. All I'm saying is, do not dismiss this as pure hocus pocus. Remember logic and philosophy were the backbone of debate among some of the greatest thinkers of our time. I do not think we compare in the slightest to these men. So, were they deluded in some way for discussing God or gods. No, that's for sure. So when the subject arises, it does seem very silly to invoke images of pasta etc for such a serious topic. That is not your fault I know. You have almost been bullied into that position and you do not realise it, so I can accept it from you as you're a smart person, but a little too dismissive of the greatest philosophical topics that have kept many great men occupied for centuries. Who made us? Who made this? Why are we here? Do we have a purpose in life? If so, what is that purpose? You may have asked yourself these questions or you may have dismissed them because when you entered society, it almost seemed silly to ask. Your life's questions were answered if you like. But when you get a little older and observe the world, you start to doubt even your own position, that's when these questions come back to you. It's not a silly topic but quite a serious one, as indeed it is your life. By the way, I'm glad you answered yes to the hypo question. It shows the honesty in you. Thank you. So in effect, if I can somehow prove it to you, you may have some time to think and question yourself, which is good. The more you question, the more you learn. Learning is not sitting in a class absorbing data and facts, although that is important of course for you to make a living doing something. But self-learning and questioning yourself are all still important too. The game's not over until it's over. It's called lifelong learning, but you do all the work, and then happiness for you, contentment, and assuredness. Things go wrong, you get back up and carry on. He's a loving God. Yeah proof of the physical entity you won't get. God in essence is an immaterial entity, He created and set the whole universe in motion. At creation time space and matter came into existence at the same time, I believe Einstein even proved this. Yes? that great scientist, read what he had to say. You can say well, who created God, but you cannot have an infinite regress of causes like that. That is faith, and I believe it. He is in reality a spaceless, timeless, immaterial, changeless but personal entity. Personal, because He chose to create this universe and us in it. So, if you want proof of Him, you really do need to look around you and observe the world. Even the most skeptic atheists cannot help but wonder at the magnificence of it all, but deep down push it away in their minds. This world and its wonders are the proof of His existence. Read how finely tuned the universe is, men cannot help to see the utmost design of it. Think about logical and mathematical absolutes, these transcend space and time, we are all as humans aware and ultimately designed to think the same way. What would happen if I said 1 plus 1 was 3, and you said no it's 2. Mathematics are absolutes, logic to build order within our own personal thinking, those tools everyone has, so we can reach proper and the same conclusions if we follow the same rules. This is why I said logic was a tool to avoid deception in your life. Why this, why that, upside down and inside out and move forward. This actually was my last proof needed that such an entity existed. I thought how supreme and magnificent was that? Then you get lockdown in your mind and know it's real. The Bible, as I said, yes is quite confusing to read and keep your belief. Ok, if you can imagine a group of people living a few thousand years ago. These people had not been given any guidance on how to live their lives. Sin had already entered the world from the start. Humanity is in tatters with all sorts of evil things being done. God needed to give some guidance to save that humanity. It pained Him to see the evils of men. They did not know how to conduct themselves so they could start to make a change to save the human race. So, from the descendants of Noah right through to Moses, he started to give some rules. There were rules for conduct of the adminstration or leaders (civil laws if you like) of those people and there were God's Laws, the Ten commandments, so everyone could be reminded that they were made by God and should therefore worship Him respectfully. They had religious laws for temple ceremonies where sins could be forgiven and for worship on the Sabbath. Now when we read the OT books, they seem awfully harsh in this day and age, don't they? Slavery and stonings etc, but in comparison to other tribes of men they were actually very lenient for that time. When the OT mentions slavery by the way, it is actually employment in a sense. If you were destitute, there was no social security remember, you could offer yourself to someone so that they may house and feed you in return for work. It generally was for a time of 7 years, when you were free to leave that household. Many 'slaves' if you like would decide to not leave, and there were intermarriages between families and 'slaves' So it's not what you envisage slavery to be. It was strictly forbidden to take somebody or kidnap them to work for nothing. Also, the rules were there for sorting out disagreements. It's doesn't been they were getting beaten daily and life was so miserable. Many didn't want to leave their 'master's' employment. I'm not saying things didn't happen, you will always get a bad one, so the laws were there to make sure there was some kind of good treatment in those cases. Slaves were also free to leave in those situations also. Sometimes women were 'sold' into a family to repay a debt. That's not buying and selling of slaves as you and I would envisage. God is not a cruel God, but he knows men are. The moral objective still in all men is really 'do no harm', but God knows we need reminding of it. About the homosexuality aspect. It's always difficult. Ok, God loves everyone equally I assure you, but He hates to see men destroy themselves through this activity of sleeping with other men. He loves them and mankind, but the sin aspect He sees as destructive to a human and society in some ways. I know you won't see it as you are young. We were created male and female and when you marry man and woman become one person. That's how it was supposed to be. That's why marriage was always reserved for a man and a woman, so they could become one entity under God's love. Yes love is a part of it, but M/F couples grow together and have children and live in a family and it creates a solid base for society. Roles are shared and children grow in a loving relationship. It works well most of the time. Now back to OT. Homosexuality was very much more deviant in those times, even the Greeks would engage in pederasty and what we would call paedophilia today. Yes, you bet. Would you like to be a 12/13 year old or younger boy being abused by a grown man. NO It was always associated not with love but with power, Fems and Doms, Doms and boys etc. Not a great way to behave. He hates to see that. If there were some harsh judgements made, I bet they were made for good purposes. You see Westboro guys as a fringe group baiting gays, and think, well all Christians are like that. NO. I've had tried very hard to speak with gay men about religion, as I know God loves everybody. Remember, do no harm. You are not here to judge, but to help if you can. We don't like to see it, because God in essence has reminded us of the damage it can do. Do you think NAMBLA a good organisation? NO See fringe opposites, beat up the Christian side, let the pederasts off with it. Slightly biased, yes? If you read something with no context behind it, you will judge incorrectly and again deceive yourself. Read 'Is God a Moral Monter' online to get some background. Read both sides then decide, normal, rational thinking. They do it court don't they? Why can't you? As I said, absolutes are not physical entities, how can they be? They were the same 4000 years ago and they will be the same 4000 years in the future. You think they're your physical brain,but they're your mind. The place where you reason and judge things, in your conscience that you can't see, but know instinctly everyone has one. That's not physical it is where your concept of God resides,if you want to know Him. Yes, religion can be a put off I'm sure. I don't go to church by the way, honestly. I worship Him in my mind and heart, and love Him more everyday. When you see the world and the evil persists, that's men, not religion doing that. Churches with strange doctrine I want to avoid really. Lastly, did those people make up a lie for no reason and die for it? All the disciples crucified or stoned, Jesus' brother killed for it. Do you know how historians work today? Things are not written about for 20 or 30 years after the events. Don't be confused with daily news, it didn't exist. Ok, people go into it, but do they really believe? That's different. But don't use it as genetic fallacy