Proof That God is Real

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "1.) To change my mind on the existence of God, you would have to provide testable, scientific proof that supports the God hypothesis. I would expect the same treatment with any theory. Just as an anecdote, if someone told me that hot water freezes faster than cold water, I would want proof of this. They could show me one of several things: they could show me a scientific report on the Mpemba effect, they could show me a chart describing the Mpemba effect to provide a better visual of the molecular activity that explains this phenomenon, or they could always use a timer and two buckets of water to actually show me that hot water freezes faster than cold water. Any one of those things would change my mind on that hypothesis, so something with equal academic merit and scientific logic behind it would change my mind on the God hypothesis." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That is the point of my original argument. God is Spirit, and you want natural proof of His existence. You are looking at science to prove the existence of God but He is the ultimate scientist. Creation itself testifies to this. Science is ever changing, and proof today might be different tomorrow. One example of that would be the Volcanism hypothesis. During the 1980"s most believed that what led to the extinction of dinosaurs was volcanic activity that spewed gas, ash and dust into the atmosphere over a long period of time so that it kept sunlight from reaching Earth's surface, which led to the loss of plant growth and ultimately led to the demise of the dinosaurs. It wasn"t until 1991 that the famous Yucatan Peninsula crater was discovered, and this shook up the scientific community. With that in mind, scientific evidence can not make the claim that theories are the, "ultimate truth." Science, (or at least our understanding of it) is always changing. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "2.) Considering that I do not currently believe in a God, I do not expect Him to prove anything to me, I expect that the followers of God and those that truly believe in him to prove to me that God exists. I personally do not believe in fairies, so I wouldn't expect a fairy to prove their existence to me, I would expect a believer in fairies to prove their existence to me." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If it were possible for us to go back thirty years in time without the knowledge that we have today, you would believe the accepted scientific evidence for the cause of dinosaur extinction. You as well as most people, would accept that evidence because science made the claim. But if you did have the knowledge and were able to present the now accepted evidence, the 1980"s era would most likely not agree with you and would dismiss the evidence that you provide. So now your only recourse would be to ask them to investigate it for themselves. Now if we were to travel thirty years into the future there is a high probability that there will be completely different scientific evidence that explains the extinction of dinosaurs. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "3.) As with the last point, I do not believe in a God, so therefore I do not believe it is neccessary OR even possible for Him to prove anything to anyone." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I will argue that this is precisely the reason why most who doubt, won"t find the evidence you"re looking for. Even with scientific discoveries, all it took was one person who believed in possibilities beyond understanding. Now I mentioned in my original argument that I would use the bible, and although you disregard it as being true, I would hope that you will consider the passage that I share. I will paraphrase a bit, and if you would like to read it for yourself, the passage comes from Luke Ch. 24. In the account that is written, Jesus had been crucified and was in the tomb. The disciples hadn"t grasped what Jesus had told them, that He would raise from the dead after three days. There are two disciples traveling together on the road to Emmaus (a city.) As they are walking, a man approaches them and walks and talks with them. They did not recognize the man nor even consider that this man was Jesus. As they are walking, he begins to talk with them about prophetic scriptures and elaborating on those scriptures to them in a way that has their interest. They are approaching a city, and they ask this man to abide with them through in the city for the night. The man agrees. I"ll post the next two verses: Luke 24:30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. Luke 24:31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight. There are a few hidden rules contained in the entire passage. 1. One will not recognize Jesus unless HE reveals who He is to them. These two disciples were believers but their eyes hadn"t been opened yet. 2. They recognized the knowledge and wisdom of the man who walked with them on the road, and they asked Him to abide with them. Now Jesus did not reveal His true identity to everyone, but to those who believed. The disciples on the road to Emmaus obviously believed because they recognized the wisdom in what the man said, and they asked him to abide with them. As I stated in my original message, the only way for anyone to know for sure, is through a personal relationship in Christ Jesus. Doubt is like a big blindfold. The more a person doubts, the more difficult it is to actually see. To answer your questions. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "1.) Beyond Biblical scripture, what evidence do you have that God exists?" --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A personal relationship, is my personal evidence. Along with personal subjective experience. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "2.) What could I say that would change your mind to think differently as to God's existence?" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There no human alive that could cause me to doubt what I know is true. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3.) Do you approach your belief in God from a spiritual or a scientific standpoint? If you approach it spiritually, then from the very nature of science, God can neither be proven nor disproven. If you approach it from a scientific standpoint, then how do you account for the lacking evidence that would support the existence of God? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I believe that the only approach is through a spiritual standpoint. A heart that is willing to ask, "God, do you exist, and will you help my unbelief?" Is the heart that will be changed from the need for proof to the desire to know everything about Him that a person can comprehend. A changed heart will bring that desire to want to draw near to God. With all of the uncertainty in this world, a heart that is set on Him will find the truth. Thank you for your very thoughtful and intelligent response