Atheism can be a causal factor in atrocity

First of all sorry, you are right that was armature of me to debate with a contra statement that is completely opposite of the premise you presented. I amend you on that, as well as I would like to thank you for providing me with your sources it is greatly appreciated. Now to the debate :] "I never said that is what atheism was. I am arguing that atheism CAN be a causal factor in atrocity, which, as it stands, has yet to be refuted." - your examples of atheism ( with Stalin and Mao) is precisely why I said "InquireTruth, you seem to be confused about what atheism is. Atheism is not strictly about people who criticize or hate religion, in fact, that's not the point at all." because those were Stalin and Mao's ways. "Questions that need to be answered by my opponent:" "1. Is it your contention that Stalin would still have systematically killed theists even if he himself was one?" - yes why not he was an evil man (Hitler did for example;theists killing theists) and at the most Stalin could just be considered as being a genocidal despot and a dogmatic communist. He did things because of his communistic ways of thinking and overpowering the people with his dictatorship. atheism is not at fault, his communist dogma run amok is at fault. Atheism is nothing more than a disbelief, not a way of life or dictatorship such as communism. "2.Stalin and Mao were destroying and eliminating religion because the atheism inherent in communism called for it. If Stalin and Mao were not eliminating religion because of atheism or communism, why were they? And how did their atheism NOT contribute to this?" -First of all you talk about communism and atheism so closely together that you almost make them to seem interchangeable in which they are not at all. ATHEISM and COMMUNISM are two entirely separate doctrines. Definitions: ATHEISM 1.the doctrine or belief that there is no God. 2.disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings. >> neither of these having anything to do with communism. COMMUNISM 1.a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state. 2.(often initial capital letter) a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party. 3.(initial capital letter) the principles and practices of the Communist party. >>nothing to do with Atheism Marx and Lenin do not define communism just because they were themselves, and wrote books of there way of communism, so if it was inherit for maybe Marx and Lenin but there is no direct link with Stalin or Mao. this is a presumptuous matter which has no certainty at all (there were forms of communism before them, specially in feudal lord days)- just stating in case you thought that Marx or Lenin were the creators of communism the concept itself. "If Stalin and Mao were not eliminating religion because of atheism or communism, why were they?" i already answered this ^^^^part of question #2^^^^ I will quote my self "it was the hate for religious domination in society that they were more against ( giving these where greedy dictators that would make sense ) more so than the doctrine of religions believing in God. Stalin did say yes that religion is the opposite of science but keep in mind that it is, making that nothing but a pure factual statement. You can't blame their unethical acts on his atheism specially considering that he was an evil man in general wanting to dominate society which has nothing to do with atheism. religious oppression is what brought this on to its self and there is no doubting that given the power of religion especially in those days of Stalin and Mao" "3. Is a 58% chance that an atheist leader will murder a noticeable percentage of the population over which he rules sufficient evidence that atheism does, in fact, proved a systematic influence to do bad things? (The Irrational Atheist 241)" - now this I don't know much about I will admit for I am modest but this statistic means nothing to me for it is only a statistic. < I leave that argument for someone who has the knowledge to rebuttal it. so readers feel free I am going to be quoting someone else for he says it perfectly and you have to think about the variables in this one. "Stalin and Mao were indeed atheists. Stalin/Mao/Pol-Pot were atheists so atheism must be wrong What is wrong with this argument? Atheism is a lack of belief, just like sobriety is a lack of alcohol. We all know that a lack of alcohol causes people to be sober. Sometimes, drunk people cause traffic accidents. But very often, sober people also cause traffic accidents. Should drunkards apologise for all the accidents caused by people drinking alcohol only if we sober people apologise for all the accidents caused by people who had no alcohol inside them? The claim that Stalin/Mao etc were atheists, so atheism is wrong, is like claiming that being sober is just as bad as being drunk, because look at the traffic accidents caused by sober people who happened to have taken cannabis or speed, or LSD or whatever. Yes, technically these people who crashed their cars after taking cannabis were technically sober. They had not drunk any alcohol. So they were just as sober as I am when I drive a car without taking cannabis or speed or other drugs. This hardly means that being sober is as bad as being drunk. The same for atheism. Atheism is a lack of belief in gods. So Stalin really was an atheist , just as somebody who drives a car under the influence of cannabis really is not drunk. But so what?" Now hopefully I answered your questions effectively and sufficiently Nobly I pass debate back to you InquireTruth. ~ MastaJake