Baptism is a salvation issue.

"how was the thief on the cross saved",? = No answer, Pro choose to talk about a church, which has no relevance to this debate. did the Jews need physically baptized before Pentecost ? = yes, then what made this thief different ? = he believed and changed = no physical baptism, = point proven ! Here's another ! (Matt 15:28) "Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour". = Made whole by faith = no baptism Pro stated James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. ***Fact faith is built on works.*** Reply James doesn't tell the reader that "works" are required for salvation ! James States faith produces Good works, if faith is not producing, then it is because it's dead The bible clearly teaches, that Jesus is the vine, and we (the believer) are the branches, the type of fruit (works) we produce is dictated by the sap (spirit) of the vine, works outside the vine are of our own making = are as wood, hay, stubble, and will burn in the test of fire, works of the vine = Gold Silver and precious stone, and will survive the test of fire. This explains the "judgement of our works in the last day", (1 Cor 3:11-12) it will be divided. Jesus tells us "Without me (the vine) ye can do nothing" (John 15:5) so unless we are receiving the sap (spirit) from the vine we can do nothing, we are not in the vine until we have been called by the father.Acts 2:39 Pro clearly contradicts = "***Fact faith is built on works.******Fact you prove your faith by works.*** Reply If we prove we have faith by our works, then faith has to be the foundation for our works, so how can faith being the foundation for our works be built on our works ? , = beats me. Here in this verse the father delivers us, - Col 1:13 "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son": we have no input in delivering ourselves. Does Pro feels that God is lacking something and is in need of help in delivering us to the Son ?, why else would Pro work to get HIMSELF" "baptized ? there is no commandment to be baptized NONE ! We know "we can do nothing" without Jesus,,and man in the flesh cannot please God, (Rom 8:8) so how can Pro please God by being baptized in the flesh ? If we are saved through an act of work = includes "physical baptism", then we are clearly saved by works, yet "Eph 2:8/9" as provided in the previous round clearly tells us "not of works, but of Grace",, We can also turn to - Rom 11:6 "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work". = "if we are saved by our works, we have no Grace, if we have no Grace we are saved by works " = Rom 6:14 ".ye are not under the law, but under grace".. = we are "under Grace and our works are not required" = "point proven" 1 Cor.12:13, Gal 3:27; Baptism by the Holy Spirit. These passages teach an instantaneous, permanent, one-time "waterless baptism" of every child of God, by the Holy Spirit. This is the point in time that the child of God is "born again", 1 Pet 1:23, transferred from the kingdom of Satan into the Kingdom of God, Col. 1:13, sealed into union with Christ by the Holy Spirit, Eph. 1:13&14, and therefore permanently "identified" as "in Christ". , I invite my opponent to look at these verses with an open mind, which further proves my point. Eph 1:13-14 " 13 - In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (= "After we believe we are sealed" = Greek prefect tense cannot be reversed = salvation gained 1 Peter 1:23 "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever" = Born again by the "word of God" which is "incorruptible Truth" = not a "physical baptism". 14 - Which is the earnest ( = Promise) of our inheritance (= everlasting life) until the redemption (= freedom) of the purchased possession, (= our bought soul) unto the praise of his glory. (= praise God for what HE has done ) = We give thanks and praise to God and God alone for our soul having been freed due to being purchased by God with his blood therefor is a possession of God, which has been promised everlasting life, not by being "physically baptized" but simply because "the Truth was believed" .. "and the Truth shall make you free" ( John 8:32) = "Jesus is the Truth" (John 14:6) Gal 3:26-27 "For ye are all the children of God "BY FAITH" (= by belief) in Christ Jesus". (= in Truth) For as many of you as have been baptized (spiritually)into Christ have put on Christ. (spiritually) where does it say we are children of God through "physical baptism" = non existent, where does it say" by faith" (belief) ? = Gal 3:26-27 = "point proven" = NO NEED FOR RELIGION AND THEIR FALSE TEACHINGS.= HAVING PEOPLE WRONGLY BELIEVE THAT RELIGION IS NEEDED TO BAPTIZE AND GAIN SALVATION FOR THE BELIEVER, WHEN THE TRUTH CLEARLY SHOWS IT'S RELIGION THAT IS IN NEED OF PEOPLE, Pro states and refers to these scriptures for support for his argument. Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. ***Fact Peter commanded that the Gentiles to be baptized. He didn't say oh please be baptized, or you should be baptized. No. Peter said be ye baptized.We know its a physical baptism because of these other verses in Acts.*** Reply. Peter did not command the gentiles to be baptized, Peter commanded "them" = "the Jews" to baptize the Gentiles, The Jews here and at that period of time did not accept the that they and they alone were no longer the only chosen people of God and rejected the Gentiles as being part of the same flock, the Gentiles here had been given the Holy Ghost, and wanted to perform an outward ritual of what God had done for them inward. In 1 Pet 3:21, the Greek word translated "baptism" is the Greek word "baptisma", which is a NOUN, meaning the "THINGS" SIGNIFIED BY BAPTISM, it is NOT A VERB as the English reader would naturally assume! Peter is saying that "baptism doth save us (is presently saving us) ", meaning that the "things", or "Bible teachings", or "doctrines" CONCERNING baptism are now saving us. (http://www.blueletterbible.org...) What are those things, or teachings that baptism signifies? We are buried with Christ, sins washed away, raised in newness of life, the great doctrines of soteriology, or salvation, these are the "things" now saving us, not the verb, the ACT of baptism! the natural man = "not born of God" cannot receive anything from the spirit = 1 Cor 2:14, These believers were not "natural men", because as the scripture states clearly that they " received the Holy Ghost as well" = they had already been "born of God", so my opponent is wrongly using this scripture to bolster his cause, and as a result is providing ammunition for his own down fall. = "Point proven" Scriptures were provided in the previous round and again in this round stating "NOT OF WORKS" why are these ignored ? a simple case of disbelief, ? = Pro has not been born of God ?, Pro clearly doesn't believe that Jesus did it all on the cross ?, Pro doesn't believe in the completed work of Jesus. ? = Pro's own works are added to the cross, = this is a fruit of religion, not the vine ! When we see the word "church" in the NT, it is taken from the Greek word "Ekklesia" = (God's) called out one's, it doesn't = "Religion", nor anything else,= we are called of God,= not call ourselves ! = God shall call. Acts 2:39