John Elway is NOT one of the Greatest Quarterbacks Ever

As we enter the final round, I will sum up my own arguments as well as rebutting the remaining arguments from my opponent. To recount the debate win condition, I needed to establish Elway was a top-ten quarterback in league history, while my opponent needed to establish the opposite.In round 2, I argued John Elway is a top ten quarterback for multiple reasons: the first was his impressive winning record, including having 12 winning seasons as opposed to only two losing seasons and two .500 seasons, seven division championships, five conference championships, and two Super Bowl championships, in addition to his impressive record of come-from behind victories and clutch wins. Second, I argued his career statistics are among the most impressive in league history, with him ranking in the top ten in virtually every career passing and rushing (QB) categories, in addition to consistently ranking in the top ten on a season-by-season basis in these same important categories (including the ones my opponent claimed Elway was lacking in) and rarely ranking in the top ten in turnovers. Even in down seasons my opponent mentioned, Elway almost always finished with impressive records and playoff berths. Although my opponent asserted Elway was a mediocre passer according to PFR's Rate+ stat, I established Elway ranks in the top ten of all players in that website's Approximate Value Stat, an all-encompassing stat that ranks the best players in the league history. I also rebutted my opponent's key arguments: that Elway did not, in fact, start his career poorly, and in fact led his team to strong performances even in the parts of his career my opponent asserts as slumps. I also established that part of Elway's legacy is his ability to lead his teams to victory, something that contemporaries with 'similar' stats like Boomer Esiason could simply not do. I also questioned my opponent's claim that team success has no impact on a player's career ranking, something I found bizarre.In round 3, I questioned my opponent's claims that season stats outweigh career stats by noting the entire work of Elway's career is more important than any solitary moment. Additionally, I established Elway's success was what placed him above and beyond his contemporaries: his win percentage and clutch performance prove this. Given his team gave him a large number of pass attempts, it is safe to say Elway's share in the success of his team was much: if he were an average quarterback, why would the team trust him to throw the ball more than most other quarterbacks? I also noted my opponent was basing his definition of 'elite' on modern quarterbacks, not contemporaries to Elway; it simply doesn't make any sense to make a judgement on who 'elite' in Elway's era when the game was so different then. I noted Elway's performances were regarded highly by his peers, leading to nine Pro Bowl appearances, as well as reiterated that, based on my opponent's primary source (PFR), Elway ranks among the top-ten best players in league history - and in the top five among quarterbacks.With these summaries out of the way, I will now rebut my opponent's final arguments:To start, my opponent claims he was not hung up on individual seasons but was simply 'showing the importance of them'. I find this claim rather odd, as my opponent focuses entirely on individual seasons despite the fact I established that Elway was consistently ranking among the best passers in the league. He asserts that Elway never led the league in passer rating, touchdowns, or completion percentage. I say to that, "so what"? He was ranking near the top of league his whole career. The fact he never finished first in cherry-picked categories is not that important. My opponent then claims his 'average stats' are not worthy of a top ten quarterback (even though these stats were good enough to rank him in the top ten in pretty much every major statistical category). Next, my opponent claims pass attempts aren't important and are the reason he ranks relatively weakly in yards per attempt and touchdowns per attempt, never mind that Elway ranked in the top ten in league nine times out of 16 seasons in the former stat[1] or he's never explained why these are important stats.Additionally, my opponent claims passer rating and Rate + are great stats and are important. He also argues there is 'no excuse' for Elway's 'poor' passer rating in some seasons. I counter that any stat that ranks Michael Vick - a quarterback notorious for poor accuracy - ahead of Dan Fouts or Fran Tarkenton as a passer is a worthless stat.[2] Oddly, my opponent doesn't seem to trust the reliability of his own source, as he tries to disprove the Approximate Value stat by linking to more stats from that site. For example, he argues Rivers was statistically better one year but had a lower ranking than another. Why is this? Because Approximate Value looks beyond the stats to the surrounding pieces, factoring in the ability of the line and receiving corps. Simply put, Rivers may have been 'statistically better' in 2013, but his surrounding pieces were better and his overall contribution to the team was weaker than in other years.[3] This is far superior because it factors in the conditions a quarterback has to work with. If my opponent wants to discount the Approximate Value stat entirely he needs to discount Rate+ as both come from the exact same source.Confusingly, my opponent argues comebacks aren't important because good teams are often in situations where they don't need to comeback. Simply put, this logic is absurd: a team can finish 15-1, but if their quarterback can't get it done in the clutch it shows a deficiency in that quarterback. He further argues comebacks can come after a player has played poorly in some parts. So what? A quarterback can have fantastic stats and still lose a game by a couple touchdowns. If they can't get it done when they need to, that needs to be considered and factored in. My opponent attempts to trump Elway as having thrown a lot of interceptions: 226, in fact. This is extremely deceptive, however, because Elway rarely finished in the top ten in interceptions (only five times in his career) and doesn't rank in the top ten all-t in that stat[1]. Further, he threw less interceptions than Dan Marino (considered by many to be the greatest quarterback of all time) and has only thrown seven more than Peyton Manning, a current player my opponent has repeatedly asserted is better.[4]After this, my opponent again insists Elway was not 'elite' - although he agrees the game is in fact different and quarterbacks didn't have amazing stats, this time by saying he finished in the top ten in league stats less times than some modern quarterbacks. This argument makes no sense: why is he not comparing Elway to contemporaries? I don't understand this. On one hand, my opponent agrees quarterbacks in Elway's era didn't consistently throw for 3,000 yards and 30 touchdowns. On the other, he is judging Elway in comparison to modern quarterbacks.From there, my opponent argues Pro Bowls are overrated. One reason he gives for this is that 'only fans vote for the Pro Bowl'. Simply put, my opponent's football knowledge seems to be lacking: fan voting only counts for 33% of the Pro Bowl vote, the other 67% belonging to coaches and players.[5] Finally, my opponent argues Elway's playoff stats are nearly identical to that of his career performance. He never cites this, but I've already established Elway had a nearly identical record in the playoffs as the regular season, so that makes sense: it shows he played basically the same in the playoffs, where you win or go home, as in significantly less important regular season games.To conclude: according to my opponent's primary source, Elway ranks as the fourth-best quarterback ever. Elway was a consistent winner, responsible for almost all the success in the Broncos team history, and consistently ranked among the league statistical leaders. He also ranks top-ten all time in most passing stats, in all quarterback running stats, and does not rank in the top ten in negative stats. Vote con!References:1. http://www.pro-football-reference.com...2. http://www.pro-football-reference.com...3. http://www.sports-reference.com...4. http://www.pro-football-reference.com...5. http://espn.go.com...