December Tournament Round 2: Jews are going to heaven.

"The resolution "Jews are going to heaven" does not specify why they go to heaven." Yes, if you could show how ALL Jews have some kind of characteristic that means they go to heaven, that would be enough. However, again, works without Jesus are worthless in God's eyes. Not to mention there is no verse given to say what "good works" are, that they alone can get you into heaven, how many you would need, etc. Just an assertion that it would help somehow despite the verses clearly saying otherwise. "John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." If you look at the context of the verse, you will see that Jesus is talking to the Pharisees..." It's irrelevant if Jesus was talking to a Pharisee or not. The message is universal. Jesus didn't make one set of rules for Pharisees and another for common Jews and yet another for gentiles, etc. No, it's an easy to follow single set of rules. Many books of the Bible were originally letters to existing churches back then. So does that mean we can't read or learn from them? Or that it doesn't apply to us because our name isn't on it? Nothing in the Bible is directed personally to the reader. In other words, if you think that it will say "And thus I say only to Jack, nobody but Jack." then you won't walk away with a single message. No, clearly, what is written, is for all to read and learn from. If there were such a verse that really only applied to a specific person or group it would be made clear and wouldn't require some form of special interpretation. Jesus didn't come to trick people and that is why this verse lines up perfectly with every other verse I presented. Another thing I will point out is, it says the audience is "the Jews" at this point in the chapter and not Pharisees like my opponent asserted (not that it would matter). So Jesus made it quite clear as He was speaking to Jews when He said this. It's the same recurring message throughout the Gospel. I will make this verse a mathematical equation: sin + death - Jesus = hell sin + death + Jesus = heaven Not sin + works + death - Jesus = heaven So, unless you could prove that no Jew is capable of sinning, ever, then the conclusion is they need Jesus just like anybody else. "they can either continue to preach but not have good works, or they can believe in him and have good works. The latter would get them to heaven. " It never even mentioned preaching OR works. Only needing Jesus because of sin to not go to hell or "die in your sin". In the whole chapter it never says anything about preaching or works even. "Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." This verse states that faith can save you, but it does not say that you need faith to be saved." So my opponent concedes that faith CAN save you, but doesn't admit that you NEED faith, despite the verses saying otherwise. Where are the verses that say that works alone can save you? Especially without Jesus... "John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." This verse says nothing about believing in Jesus, it could be referring to following his teachings by having good works." This verse is really clear. You would have to put your own spin on it to come to some different conclusion. If Jesus was standing right there saying, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.", it would be silly to say, well, He doesn't mean that I need Him at all. I can just use my own works to do it. I don't see how anybody could possibly come to that conclusion. Notice He doesn't say, "I am a way, some men come to the Father without me." That's almost the exact opposite of what He said. Nor does He say, "I am a way, men come to the Father by their works (even if they deny Me)". No, He specifically says He is THE WAY, THE TRUTH, THE LIFE. "Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." meaning that faith saves you; you don't save yourself. It then says, "It is the gift of God: not of works," meaning that works do not earn salvation by themselves; God will save you because he is merciful. If you read the rest of the passage, it talks a lot about God's mercy, so you can infer that this verse is referring to God's mercy. You can conclude from this verse that God saves people because of their faith and/or good works." "faith saves you; you don't save yourself" Right, we are saved by faith through grace. In other words, faith is what saved us, which we get by God's grace and not because we deserve it. Just like works don't have anything to do with it "lest any man should boast". That right there tells you that faith/God's grace get's the credit and not one person will be able to boast that they are there because of their works. Also, if it WERE through works, then it would follow that you could make the case that you DID deserve it, and thus removing the credit from faith/God's grace and giving that person the means to boast. "You can conclude from this verse that God saves people because of their faith and/or good works." No, it says you are saved through FAITH, NOT OF WORKS. Not and/or, choose your way in. "I am using the Catholic Bible, which is the original version. Baptists and other Protestant Christians left out several books and chapters and changed some verses." Who told you that? First of all, Catholicism is a works based false religion. So of course they have changed the text to line up with their phony doctrine. Just like a Jehovah's Witness fake Bible will remove the deity of Christ, and so on. That being said, Catholics would not officially agree with your stance that you don't need Jesus and that works alone could save you. This link refutes that there are any changes from the actual legitimate Bible canon. The only additional material used in a Catholic Bible are books that aren't part of the Hebrew canon. It isn't inspired, so it isn't canon. Just like the apocrypha isn't canon and you wouldn't expect to find it in a legitimate Bible. There are many reasons to distrust the Catholic system, however that is a whole different debate. I will just point out that the Catholic church up until only recently did everything in latin. Everybody was forbidden to try to read the Bible or to translate it. They didn't want people to know what it really said. People were burned alive for teaching the Lord's prayer even... http://www.jesus-is-savior.com... Even after all that, even if we grant this corrupted irrelevant version as being correct, it still proves my point. "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him." If you believe in Jesus you go to heaven. If you "disobey" you go to hell. Not believing in Jesus is disobeying the first part of the same sentence. Just like all the other verses, it's not even implied that works alone are any good for getting into heaven. You'd have to make it say the opposite. "Galatians 2:16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." This verse talks about justification. I don't see how that has anything to do with going to heaven." Justification, in Christian theology, is God's act of removing the guilt and penalty of sin while at the same time declaring a sinner righteous through Christ's atoning sacrifice. https://en.wikipedia.org...(theology) How does it not have EVERYTHING to do with it? Justification is salvation, it is the penalty of sin (hell) being removed through Jesus. Basically it is saying, "Man is not saved/forgiven by works, but by faith on Jesus,... for by works shall no flesh be saved/forgiven. "Acts 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." This is an incomplete verse. It uses the words "neither" and "other" without any hint as to what it is referring to." Are you claiming to not understand that this is saying you can only be saved by Jesus? Did you have some problem with context? Does it not line up with all of the rest of the Gospel message? Or did they throw some kind of curveball and never explain themselves? "Matthew 7:21-23" Again, this only would apply to somebody that He could say, "I never knew you" to. If you have faith in Jesus this would never apply to you, however, if you plan on using only works you're going to get a nasty response like, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." "James 2:14" "Can faith save him?" which means that he has faith, but it is not enough. Here's what it's saying put simply. If a person says he has faith, but shows otherwise, will that supposed faith save him? Any other interpretation is to ignore the plethora of verses which lay it out very easily. There is not 1 single verse that implies you don't need Jesus, nor that works alone can cut it. I have showed many verses that show that YES, true faith IS THE WAY to salvation alone. Not fake faith, true faith in Jesus. "Romans 2:6-7 I have already disproven all your arguments to support that claim. " No, you asserted things that say the opposite of the Gospel message. Even the Catholic source doesn't help with the main issue at hand... Do you need to believe on Jesus? Of course! I already explained this. Everybody gets judged and their deeds brought out for everyone to see. From there, you either get saved or you aren't forgiven. You need Jesus to be forgiven.