A Christian Cannot Lose His Salvation

1. Although PRO did not formally challenge my definition of Christian from Round 2, his question in round 3 shows that he does not accept the definition in Webster’s Online Dictionary- Christian - one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ. [1] PRO’s first question essentially asks “was Charles Templeton a Christian?” 1) He professed to be a Christian. (Meeting the dictionary definition) 2) His life and words gave every evidence of solid faith. (Meeting a more strict definition) 3) He was active and effective in evangelism. [2] As much as we can know, Templeton was saved. If you push your view of eternal security too far - believers will have a different worry. They will have to worry if they were really saved in the first place. 2. Pro says “‘blotting out’ were references to physical life ”. This is often a position of people who have first decided to affirm the “once saved - always saved” position and then (without good evidence) claim it is refers to physical life. Not only is this a minority position among Christians worldwide, but it is also a minority position among scholars. [3] 3. Pro claims “-As for Rev. 2:3-5, this is connected to the case of the aforementioned man who had relations with his mother. He did not repent, and as a result, the Lord took his life away.” - This is a hard position to defend, and not really part of the debate. Since the first incident happened in Corinth (1 Cor. 5:1-5) and Rev 2:3-5 is a letter from Jesus to the church at Ephesus. - Most bible scholars believe that this incident is linked to 2 Cor 2:5-11. [4]4. PRO states “Rev 3:15-16 must be talking about those who never were saved to begin with” This is a bias that comes from your position. It becomes a circular argument. If you define saved or Christian as “those who make it to the end” you have done two things. 1) You have redefined a word differently from the dictionary definition. This makes your thesis statement meaningless as we are not using the same language. This also makes the debate one of semantics rather than substance. 2) You have made the debate pointless by definition. You cannot redefine words to make your point. Jesus’ letters to the churches warn the churches that deeds must follow faith. Jesus tells them “I know your deeds”. There are warnings and encouragements. Like in Rev 3:11-12 “hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12 He who overcomes . . . “ where Jesus warns them to “hold fast”, and gives a conditional promise “He who overcomes”. Neither statement make sense if all who claim belief are eternally secure with no option of falling or turning away.5. Let me elaborate on Mt 18 - This teaching begins with an exchange between Peter and Jesus. “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” 22 Jesus *said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. 23 “For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves. ” Jesus tells Peter that he must forgive others. The parable is of a wicked slave. forgiven much, who will not forgive others. The conclusion is that the master tells the wicked servant “33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.” “Handed over to the torturers” is a picture of hell. The wicked servant had been forgiven a huge debt, but would not forgive others. Jesus warns that “35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”6. PRO states “One is either saved, or not saved.” I disagree. There is a process (past, present and future aspects) of salvation. That is why scripture talks about “being saved” as a past event, as a present process and as a future culmination of God’s work.[5] See Romans 13:11 (KJ21) “that now it is high time to awaken out of sleep; for now is our salvation nearer than when we first believed.Pro states “Here, "no one" means not even we could snatch ourselves out of His hand” - this is a bold assertion. It does not make sense. It is unsubstantiated.Pro states “the doctrine that you're arguing for makes the implication that one maintains his own salvation” - Not so. I am saying that God does not take away our freedom of choice. Look at 2 Peter 2 “even denying the Master who bought them” in v1 gives the impression that they once belonged to Jesus. The focus of the chapter is about those “forsaking the right way, they have gone astray” v15 Look at v 20-21 “ For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.” - This is clearly about people who escaped defilement by knowledge of Jesus but then turn away.PRO claims I am arguing doctrine I am simply exploring scripture. See Hebrews 10:26-27 “For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries.” Scripture tells that willful sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth has terrible consequences of “judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries.”PRO opposes that "drifting away" was a reference to drifting away from faith.” - Hebrews 2 tells us to pay attention “so that we do not drift away.” and then warns “how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation?” It is clearly talking about salvation and the message of Jesus.In 1 Timothy 4 “the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons” in verse 1. See the conditional promise “ Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you.” Jesus teaches about falling away in Luke 8. Not how he says some believe and then fall away (v 13), and that others bring no fruit to maturity (v 14)“13 Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.” Although I am Baptist, I find the following a good source. [6], [7][1] http://www.merriam-webster.com...[2] http://en.wikipedia.org...[3] http://www.bbc.edu...[4] http://www.biblegateway.com... - click on “show resources” and RSB 1 Cor 5:3–5[5] http://www.ewtn.com...[6] http://enrichmentjournal.ag.org...[7] http://enrichmentjournal.ag.org...