Day of Atonement = Pre-Advent Judgment

"The bible says that we have an advocate with the Father so no contradiction here." 2 Cor 5:10 "WE must all stand before the judgment seat of Christ." We have to present before God for judgment, and just because we will stand in the covering of Jesus as our intercessor does not mean that WE won't have to appear before Jesus in judgment. Jesus is the one who judges (John 5:22), so for him to stand in our behalf as you want it would put Jesus BEFORE the his own judgment seat. Christ judging Christ! Nonsense. What really happens in the judgment of the righteous is that Christ judges them with the understanding that they are covered in his blood, and so he looks at his righteousness that covers them. Jesus, in this judgment, can't intercede for us TO HIMSELF. Jesus only intercedes for us to the Father, but the Father isn't the one judging us. So I think you have it wrong here. Since nobody was standing before Christ, before Christ on his judgment seat from 1844 till now, then your pre-adventive judgment hasn't happened. Christ certainly wasn't standing in front of himself on our behalf, so I don't know how much clearer to say it. "Where does the Bible say the righteous will be judged? Your own text: we must all appear..." I made it clear that the judgment of the righteous is to decide their reward, as the text says. It's not a judgment over which they will be condemned, for Romans 8:1 says "there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." You are contradicting this by saying that the judgment of the righteous is one in which God separates which ones are saved from which ones are lost because some of them lost their faith. I am saying that those who lost their faith are not righteous, and will not be involved in the judgment of the righteous. Regarding the wicked, or the lost, you say: " They are judged more than twice. There are several phases to the judgment. Before the second coming as described in Dan. 7, during the millennium Rev 20 and at the white throne after the millennium." False. Let's look at Daniel 7:10-11 "A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him. Thousands upon thousands attended him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The court was seated, and the books were opened. "Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire." The court seated to make a decision that it was time to destroy the beast power. This is a judgment against the beast. Nothing is said here about a judgment of the righteous, so you are misapplying this text. In fact, notice how the dream was interpreted: "He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time. ""But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever." (vss 25-26) So again, the court sits to take away and destroy the little horn or the beast. Nothing here about the righteous standing in judgment before Jesus Christ. This judgment against the beast may give us some insight into what takes place in heaven when God is going to punish particular sets of people in history, like when he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. The rest of the text describes events concerning the coming of Christ that certainly have not yet happened. "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; ALL NATIONS and peoples of every language worshiped him. " (Dan 7:13-14) Did all nations worship Jesus between 1844 and today? No. Has the Son of Man come on the clouds yet? No. Verse 26-27 add this: ""But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. Then the sovereignty, power and GREATNESS OF ALL THE KINGDOMS UNDER HEAVEN WILL BE HANDED OVER TO THE HOLY POEPLE of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him."" Now I don't know who my opponent thinks the holy people are, but neither the SDAs, the other Christians, not even the Jews, received rule over ALL THE KINGDOMS under heaven between 1844 and today! This isn't talking about God's kingdom, but all the earthly "kingdoms" (plural). And even here it doesn't say anything about the holy ones being "judged," only that they "receive" rulership over the earth's kingodms. So this first phase of judgment Pro thinks will happen is non-existent in Daniel 7. We have no other text given by him to show a pre-adventive judgment except his speculations about what the Day of Atonement rituals of Lev 16 represent; but I already shows how they were fulfilled in Jesus 2000 years ago. So Pro has no case here. In Revelation 20, nothing at all is said about judgment taking place DURING the 1000 years. Rev 20:4 says that John saw some people who had authority to judge, but nothing is said about them executing judgment during the millennium, nor is any said to be judged not any books on judgment said to be opened until AFTER the 1000 years. (Rev 20:7, 11-15) So there is one judgment of the wicked. I am yet to see Pro quote the verse which speaks of the wicked in general being judged before the white throne judgment. Pro's position is simply not well supported by any Bible verse. "We have (1) those who never get saved, (2) those who get saved and then apostatize and (3) those who get saved and stay saved. " No, you are needlessly complicating this. We only have two groups. Those who die in a saved condition, and those who don't! "There has to be a judgment that separates between groups 2 and 3 because, unlike those who always opposed God, people in group 2 might be indistinguishable from those in group 3 TO HUMAN EYES." In your soul sleep theology, none of the billions of humans who died in history are present to see this Investigative Judgment of yours, so it certainly can't benefit their eyes. And to make it worse, not even the living humans on earth today, not even SDAs, are privy to hear the calling of the names and what is being said. So it doesn't benefit any human eyes. So I don't see how this judgment helps to clarify who is and isn't righteous in human eyes if we don't get to see the judgment, but only find out who was saved when we get to heaven. This is just a bad excuse for a non-existent pre-advent judgment. In fact, in my theology, it would benefit my eyes, and the eyes of all the righteous souls who have gone to heaven when their bodies died, for my spirit to stand before Christ's judgment seat on the same day that I die to receive my reward. Revelation 6:9-11 says that such souls of the saints who died are in heaven all now, and they ask for vengeance against the wicked living on earth, but they are told to wait until the full number of their brothers who are still here on earth with us are killed as they were. Your theology would make more sense and agree with the Bible if you believed what Jesus said: that when they kill your body, they won't be able to kill your soul. (Matt 10:28) "God doesn't make decisions in secret but does everything openly so that all the parties involved can understand why God sent some people to heaven and some to hell." Okay, so can you tell me some of the names that came up recently before God in this judgment that you say is going on as we speak? Can you tell me what these guys did to deserve their fate? No, because your IJ is secretly going on in heaven hidden from you! So much for not doing anything in secret. Now, as for the angels, where does the Bible say that God needs to prove anything to them? Give me the verse that says God needs to justify himself before them? Mrs. White repeatedly stated that the angels already know our actions. In Testimonies Vol. 1, p. 544, she says: "Heavenly angels are acquainted with our words and actions, and even with the thoughts and intents of the heart." See also Vol. 2, pp. 181, 442, Great Controvery p. 486. This makes it unnecessary to have judgment for the angels' benefit, and I would love the verse which says that its for their benefit. So far Pro gave us none! SDAs teach that the dead are unconscious until the resurrection, therefore no I. J. taking place before Christ comes can inform the dead about God's justice in this matter. Then how inconsistent to teach that an I. J. began in 1844, if God and the angels know "our words and actions" and "the thoughts and intents of the heart" and dead are unconscious till the I. J. is all finished. " If all God wanted to do is point to the cross He would have stayed with the simple sacrifices that Abraham offered and would not have created this elaborate symbolic service." Be careful not to exalt your logic above God's word. I already showed you how Jesus fulfills the entire Day of Atonement, not just at the cross, but in his taking our sins away. He is our High Priest, he is the temple, he is the sacrifice and the scapegoat, all this I showed. If every animal sacrifice offered each day of the year pointed the cross, why can't the day of atonement goats point to the cross and his resurrection (taking away our sins)? Jesus became our Passover lamb on the cross (1 Cor 5:7) and yet he was the lamb slain on the Day of Atonement. So all these festivals can point to the cross. Just because one points to the cross doing mean the others can't and must point to some later events. Man's wisdom and logic caused some to reject the Trinity, a doctrine we both affirm as Christians. Don't let your logic cause you to deny the facts I have given from Scripture. "We don't believe the heavenly sanctuary has two rooms" Great Controversy pp.359, 364-365 says they are, which I'll quote in the next round. I'm out of space.