the Christian god exists

"1.1 The 12 disciples The link showed what fate they chose because of their testimony of Christs resurrection. You didn't even challenge me on this one.. All you posted was a source that showed how the disciples died. You did not show why their testimony was in any way validated by this. "1.2 Ordinary people "This does not specify any people specifically who saw Jesus ressurect." This makes no difference to my point." Of course it does. You only showed that a story says that a lot of people saw Jesus rise from the dead. This could all be made up as you provided no external evidence for your claim. "And appeals to eye witness testimony are usually faulty in that people have horrible judgement" The "horrible judgement" part needs explanation." The following is from "Problems and Materials on Trial Advocacy" "Eyewitness testimony is, at best, evidence of what the witness believes to have occurred. It may or may not tell what actually happened. The familiar problems of perception, of gauging time, speed, height, weight, of accurate identification of persons accused of crime all contribute to making honest testimony something less than completely credible." Eye witness testimony can not always be taken at face value. "Just look at supposed alien abductions or people who believe their house is haunted." These two scenarios lack: 1. A huge number of witnesses of the same event. 2. A huge number of witnesses willing to go through tribulation for their testimony. 3. External evidence, for example, an empty tomb." 1. You provided no external evidence that the event even took place or that there were eyewitnesses. It could have been easily made up as their is no evidence that the accounts taken are true. 2.I already showed why this has no matter in truth. Nazis were willing to go through "tribulation" for their "testimony". 3.An empty tomb as I have already shown is not evidence of god. I already said that either A-Jesus never existed, B-The disciples stole Jesus' body in an effort to promote Christianity, or C-Jesus existed but was never crucified. Your only source of the crucifixtion is in a book written decades after the alleged crucifixtion and by men who had every reason to fabricute the story. Take an analogy of your empty tomb "proof". Say that I went up to my friend and exclaimed that I had found a unicorn and had it trapped in my garage at home. Now say my friend was skeptical(as he should be) and demanded that I show him the unicorn in person before he believes me. When we get to my house and I open my garage there is nothing in there but tools and trash bins. Does this count as external evidence that there WAS a unicorn trapped just because someone, without credible evidence, said there SHOULD have been a unicorn? "1.3 Paul "This is again eye witness testimony and no external evidence for the existence of any deity." So you gonna just ignore this? Cool." Another analoy. If Bob told Jimbo that he saw Superman yesterday and that he believed he had seen Superman with such intensity that he would be willing to lay down his life for his testimony, would that count as external evidence that Bob was telling the truth. No. It provides evidence that Bob THINKS he is telling the truth. "People were willing to suffer persecution for the cause of Islam so how can they both be right?" These people said that they saw him resurrect so this is not a matter of faith. Yes, people get persecuted for many things, but their persecution involves belief and faith while the early Christians were not persecuted for what they believed but rather for what they knew." You have not shown any credible evidence that these people KNEW they had seen Christ ressurect, although you have shown that they BELIEVED they had seen Christ ressurect. ".1 First part "A)He never existed" Can you back up this point? " I do not have to. You are positively asserting that Christ existed, therefore it is up to you to provide reason and evidence. "We have the gospels, the historians such as Tacitus and Josephus" As Carl Sagan said, "Extraordinary claims requuire extraordinary evidence." you have not shown beyond a reasonable doubt that the gospels were not fabricated or that Tacitus and Josephus were not mistaken or lying. "...insufficient time for a myth to develop" http://www.egyptianmyths.net... Some parallels between Horus and Jesus Christ: 1. Horus born of a virgin. <> Jesus born of a virgin. 2. The foster father of Horus was Seb or Seph. <> Jesus was fostered by Joseph. 3. Horus was of royal descent. <> Jesus was of royal descent. 4. Horus birth accompanied by three solar deities [star gazers] who followed by the morning star of Sirius bearing gifts. <> Jesus birth accompanied by three wise men [Zoroastrian star gazers] who followed by a star "in the east" bearing gifts. 5. The birth of Horus announced by angels. <> The birth of Jesus announced by angels. 6. Herut tried to murder the infant Horus. <> Herod slaughtered every first born in an attempt to kill Jesus the forthcoming messiah. 7. Horus is baptized at age 30 by Anup the Baptiser at a river. <> Jesus is baptized at age 30 by John the Baptist at a river. 8. Horus resists temptation by the evil Sut [Sut was to be the precursor for the Hebrew Satan] on a high mountain. <> Jesus resists temptation by Satan on a high mountain. 9. Horus had 12 followers. <> Jesus had 12 disciples. 10. Horus performed miracles like healing the sick and walking on water. <> Jesus performed miracles like healing the sick and walking on water. 11. Horus raised someone from the grave [his father Osiris] <> Jesus raised Lazarus [notice the name similarity] from the grave. Lazarus is short for Elasarus - the "us" on the end is romanized. Elasarus was derived from "El-Asar" which was the name given to Osiris. 12. Horus was buried and resurrected in the city of Anu. <> The place Bethany mentioned in John was a derivative of the words "Bet" and "Anu" which translates "the house of Anu". The ‘y' on the end of bethany is interchangeable with the letter ‘u'. 13. Horus was killed by crucifixtion. <> Jesus was crucified. 14. Horus was accompanied by two thieves at the crucifixtion. <> Jesus was crucified with two thieves. 15. Horus was buried in a tomb at Anu. <> Jesus was buried in a tomb located in Bethany [Bet-Anu]. 16. Horus was resurrected after 3 days. <> Jesus was "said" to resurrected after over a period of three days. 17. The resurrection of Horus was announced by three women. <> The resurrection of Jesus was announced by three women. 18. Horus was given the titel KRST which means "anointed one" <> Jesus was given the title Christ [Christos] meaning "anointed one" http://www.abovetopsecret.com... "how could someone claim to see something that doesn't exist?" They could be lying or easily mistaken. "B)The disciples stole his body in an effort to attract followers" Hence, they died and suffered for what they knew was a lie..." This again is no argument but mere speculation on what their intentions might have been. Still no evidence that they were telling the truth. "C)Jesus existed but the crucifixtion never took place" I've no idea how this is supposed to work. May you explain this theory?" It's pretty self-explanatory. And it's not a theory I'm just pointing out scenarios in which Jesus may never have been buried to begin with. It seems as though I have run out of room to continue refuting Pro's incredibly weak arguments. As this is the last round I will tell the voters that Pro brought absolutely no credible evidence for the existence of the Christian god. It was all based on eyewitness testimony which he did not prove was not lies or honest mistakes. VOTE CON! And good luck to pro in the voting period.