SDA Doctrines about the year 1844, the Heavenly Sanctuary and Investigative Judgement are Unbiblical

Con says: "Okay so you admit the word "chatak" could mean cut off. SO using what we know the days could be cut off for the people mentioned. We believe that this cut off is cut off from the previous 2300 days/years making our belief biblical. " Wrong, Daniel 9:24 doesn't say "70 weeks are chatak FROM," as if the 70 weeks were a part of a long time prophecy. Rather, it says "70 weeks are chatak UPON," so this verse is not describing the 70 weeks as being part of a longer time prophecy such as the 2,300 days. Secondly, the same verse says "chatak upon they people and thy holy city," so the relationship given is between the 70 weeks and the people and city, not between the 70 weeks at the 2,300 days. Third, the vision of the 2,300 days in Daniel 8and the vision of the 70 weeks in Daniel 9 are not a single vision, but are two separate and distinct visions that occurred on different occasions. The vison of the 2,300 days was given in the 1st year of Belshazzar (Dan 8:1, 14) but the vision of the 70 weeks was given in the 1st year of Darius (Dan 9:1, 24). There is no relation between them because Daniel 9 doesn't mention the 2,300 days, the ram, goat or little horn, and Daniel 8 doesn't mention the 70 weeks. Fourth, even if we assume, as SDAs do, that the 70 were part of the 2,300 days, this would not be enough to show that the start date of the 70 weeks (457 BC) is the start date of the 2,300 days. My lunch hour is part of, and is cut off from, my regular work hours for the day, but that doesn't mean that the start time of my lunch hour must therefore be the start time of my work hours for that day. I have already given the SDA quotes showing that they claim the 2,300 days embraces the vision of the ram, goat, and little horn, so the 2,300 days should begin in 550 BC which is when the events of the ram's horns begin. This also shows that SDAs don't need the 70 weeks to find a start date for the 2,300 days, because if as they claim, the 2,300 days embraces the vision of the ram, goat, and little horn, we do have a start date for the 2,300 day vision in Daniel 8 - namely, the rise of one horn over the other. History testifies this occurred in 550 BC. Con says: "Regarding the timeline you say we claim that the whole prophecy regarding the ram took place within the 2300 days. I don't believe this is true and would like to read your source. " "What does the phrase "evening and morning" designate? Gen. 1:8, 13; Exod. 27:20, 21; Lev. 24:2, 3. The phrase "for two thousand three hundred evenings and mornings" (NRSV) defines the period that will cover the fulfillment of the vision of the ram, the goat, and the little horn, including the daily ministry of Christ and the little horn's attack on His work. At the end of that prophetic period an important event is introduced: The sanctuary will be cleansed (vindicated/restored). This is the event that initiates the prophetic period and the event that closes it. What the chapter does not provide is a specific date for the beginning of the period (that comes in Daniel 9). If the 2,300-day period covers the time span that includes the ram, the goat, and the little horn, why must the 2,300 days not be taken literally? " . http://www.ssnet.org... There you have it, from your own SDA source. The thing is, Great Apocalyptic Prophecies is an SDA quarterly that was studied by Adventists the world over for a number of months, so I'm surprised that Con claims to be unaware of this source. He could have simply procured a copy from his church and looked up my quotation. I have shown that the vision of the ram begins no later than 550 BC, therefore, 1844 is unbiblical because 2,300 years from 550 BC doesn't bring us to 1844. Con seems to be saying that Ellen White was not speaking about a past atonement on the cross, but about some future atonement that the Father saw after the cross. Here are the SDA quotes with source: "II. Complete Sacrificial Atonement Made on Cross He [Christ] planted the cross between heaven and earth, and WHEN THE FATHER BEHELD THE SACRIFICE OF HIS SON, He bowed before it in recognition of its perfection. "It is enough," He said. "The Atonement is complete. ""The Review and Herald, Sept. 24, 1901. Type met antitype in the death of Christ, the Lamb slain for the sins of the world. Our great High Priest has made the only sacrifice that is of any value in our salvation. WHEN HE OFFERED HIMSELF ON THE CROSS, A PERFECT ATONEMENT WAS MADE for the sins of the people. We are now standing in the outer court, waiting and looking for that blessed hope, the glorious appearing of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. "The Signs of the Times, June 28, 1899. Our great High Priest completed the sacrificial offering of Himself WHEN HE SUFFERED WITHOUT THE GATE. THEN A PERFECT ATONEMENT WAS MADE for the sins of the people. Jesus is our Advocate, our High priest, our Intercessor. Our present position therefore is like that of the Israelites, standing in the outer court, waiting and looking for that blessed hope, the glorious appearing of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. "Manuscript 128, 1897" . http://www.sdanet.org... Words cannot be more clear that the atonement was made AT THE CROSS 2000 years ago, long before 1844. When did the Father SEE Jesus on the cross if not when He died? Yet, in the first of these 3 quotes, that is when the Father says the atonement is complete, which means you can't place atonement in 1844. What's more, Daniel 9:24 says the atonement was to take place during the 70 weeks. SDAs believe the 70 weeks were fulfilled long before 1844. In either case, the atonement in Daniel 9:24 is referring to what Jesus did on the cross. Con says: "I can't say that I know for certain what Jesus was doing. " Look back at the question I asked. We as Christians know what the atonement was, Christ's death on the cross, where his blood had value to cover our sins. So, I asked, what exactly was this atonement in 1844? Did Jesus die again? Maybe SDAs think it was Jesus acting as our intercessor, but certainly he was our intercessor and advocate long before 1844. So what is it that Jesus began to do in 1844 that he wasn't doing before? The reason why Con can't tell us is because there is nothing new Jesus began to do for us in 1844. Con says: "Your asking me what he was doing for 1800 years but I could turn around and ask you what has he been doing for the whole history of the earth? Can you give me a solid answer? " Firstly, these questions are irrelevant to this debate. Look at the title of this debate. It's about SDAs doctrine of 1844 (what exactly happened in 1844), the investigative judgment and the heavenly sanctuary. It's not about the history of the earth. But I could tell you what Jesus was doing for the history of the earth though. Understanding that Jesus is God (Isa 9:6; John 1:1-3, 14; 20:28; Heb 1:6, 8-10), it was therefore Jesus who created the earth, was seen as God in the OT guiding the saints like Abraham in Genesis 18, and Moses in Exodus 3, and after preparing Israel as a nation to a certain point, he died for us on the cross, was raised to heaven where he stands before the Father as our Advocate. Jesus also was ruling in heaven as God before coming to earth. (Col 1:13-19; Php 2:5-8) But that's not the point of this debate. If you claim an atonement took place in 1844, you need to tell us what that atonement was. He also says: "Yes Jesus died at the cross in atonement for our sins. .. . Jesus died on the cross but he needed one final step and that is to cleanse the temple by sprinkling the blood in the holies of holies. That is what Adventists believe happened in 1844. " Now, where does the Bible say that Jesus took his blood and sprinkled it in the holy of holies in 1844? It doesn't, this isn't Biblical. Did Jesus cut open his flesh and shake his blood around in ark in 1844? Or was Jesus still bleeding after his resurrection and ascension to heaven? Did He keep bleeding till 1844? I guess Con is imagining Jesus cutting himself to sprinkle his blood in a Day of Atonement ritual in 1844, in the Most Holy. A serious problem with this is that according to Hebrews 9:24-28, Jesus already entered the presence of God long before 1844, and we know from Leviticus 16:2 and all the other passages I gave that God's presence was in the Most Holy. So if Jesus did present his blood before the Father, it didn't happen in 1844 but in the 1st century CE. But Hebrews 9:24-28 also says Jesus offered himself once for all time. He doesn't need to shed his blood again in 1844. This makes a mockery of his atonement on the cross to call it incomplete, needing another step in 1844. Daniel 9:26 mentions the destruction of the sanctuary, but this can't be the Roman attack in 70 CE, because if you count the 70 weeks (490 years) from 457 BC, this brings you to 33 CE, placing the destruction of that temple outside the 70 week prophecy. Sin is to go during the 70 weeks (Dan 9:24) but sin is still here among Daniel's people, showing the final week is yet to be fulfilled. The sanctuary will be rebuilt, and destroyed again. Its' this sanctuary that will need to be cleansed in Daniel 8:14, not one in heaven. It will be defiled by the little horn, a power on earth, not in heaven. (Dan 8:9-13) Since the defilement takes place on earth, the horn that does the defilement is one earth, then so is the sanctuary. So Con has the wrong sanctuary in Daniel 8:14. 2 Corinthians 5:10 says we will STAND BEFORE Jesus for judgment, and Con used this verse to prop up his investigative judgment. But the judgment SDAs claim began in 1844 has people being judged who are NOT PRESENT BEFORE THE JUDGMENT SEAT of Christ. They therefore have an unbiblical view of the judgment. We will be there when being judged.