Adolf Hitler was a Christian

The notion that I choked is just silly. Unless, of course, you define choking as pressing some wrong buttons. To explain what happened, I ted my argument too early because I thought I had pasted it. Anyways, here it is. #1: Anti-Christian quotes are faked There are two versions the original German table-talk. One edited by Martin Bormann called the Bormann Vermerke ("Bormann Notes") which, until 1980, existed only in the collection of Francois Genoud. The other version came from Picker who got is copy from Heim and then added his own entries. According to Richard C. Carrier, "the Bormann Vermerke also contains entries made by Bormann, and presumably Heim, during the period covered by Picker's text, which are inexplicably not found in his copy. There is also supposed to be a third copy, which Bormann forwarded to an office in Mï¿½nich, but it was lost (most likely destroyed by Allied bombs)." Picker's edition has the strongest claim to authenticity because it contains the actual German, has the support of eyewitness testimony and has scholarly backing. Next in authority is the scholarly work of Werner Jochmann who published the German of the Bormann Vermerke in 1980 (which Trevor-Roper, et al, used from Genoud's French translation). The German versions of the talk do not include the anti-Christian quotes. The English version endorsed by Trevor-Roper (and everyone else) contains the fabrications. These lies come, verbatim, from the translation of Genoud's French! In a related fakery, the alleged document of Hitler's Last Testament (supposedly a part of the table-talk), Genoud gave David Irving, a World War II historian, a copy of the complete typescript manuscript. Every page was "heavily amended and expanded in somebody's hand-writing." Genoud admitted it was his own, and later admitted to Irving that the entire typescript was his own confection saying, "But it is just what Hitler would have said, isn't it?" In other words, Hitler's Last Testament was a fake. #2: Nowhere does Hitler denounce Jesus or his Christianity - If one is to use the Table-Talk as evidence against Hitler's Christianity, then where does it appear? Nowhere in the conversations of Table-Talk, does Hitler denounce his Christianity or Jesus. - The quotes provided (that aren't forgeries) only tried to show that the Church form of Christianity produced lies. Whenever Adolf Hitler mentions Jesus Christ, he has nothing but positive things to say about him: ' Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism the destroyer. Nevertheless, the Galilean, who later was called Christ, intended something quite different. He must be regarded as a popular leader who too up His position against Jewry. Galilee was a colony where the Romans had probably installed Gallic legionaries, and it's certain that Jesus was not a Jew. The Jews, by the way, regarded Him as the son of a whore-- of a whore and a Roman soldier. The decisive falsification of Jesus's doctrine was the work of St. Paul. He gave himself to this work with subtlety and for purposes of personal exploitation. For the Galiean's object was to liberate His country from Jewish oppression. He set Himself against Jewish capitalism, and that's why the Jews liquidated Him. -Hitler [Table-Talk, p. 76] ' 'Christ was an Aryan, and St. Paul used his doctrine to mobilise the criminal underworld and thus organise a proto-Bolsevism. -Hitler [Table-Talk, p. 143] ' - If the fact that Hitler spoke against religion means he's not a Christian, then the most famous people of the church shouldn't be either. 'The papacy is truly the real power and tyranny of the Antichrist.... As beautiful as it was to keep a state of virginity, in the early days of Christianity, so abominable has it now become, when it is used as a means of eliciting Christ's help and grace.' -Martin Luther (Luther's Confession, March 1528) 'We maintain that the government of the Church was converted into a species of foul and insufferable tyranny. -John Calvin (The Necessity of Reforming the Church, 1544) There also numerous anti-atheist quotes found in the book: 'We don't want to educate anyone in atheism.' Table-Talk [p. 6] 'An uneducated man, on the other hand, runs the risk of going over to atheism (which is a return to the state of the animal)...' Table-Talk [p. 59] And a quote from Albert Speer is very convincing: 'Even after 1942 Hitler went on maintaining that he regarded the church as indispensable in political life. He would be happy, he said in one of those teatime talks at Obersalzberg, if someday a prominent churchman turned up who was suited to lead one of the churches- or if possible both the Catholic and Protestant churches reunited. He still regretted that Reich Bishop Muller was not the right man to carry out his far-reaching plans. But he sharply condemned the campaign against the church, calling it a crime against the future of the nation. For it was impossible, he said, to replace the church by any party ideology. [Speer, p. 95] (bold characters, mine)' If Con would like to use Table Talk as evidence of Hitler's lack of faith, can he explain these quotes? #3: The book reflects things that did not occur In the Secret Conversations with Hitler, two recently discovered confidential interviews were given by Richard Breiting in 1931. Breiting was a member of the German People's Party. In these conversations, (which were actually more private than the Table-Talk), Hitler reveals his aims and plans. Like the Table-Talk, the notes were taken in short-hand. Unlike the Table-Talk, which Hitler knew would later be revealed, Hitler was assured that his statements would be kept secret. [Calic, p.11] Moreover, the Secret Conversations were authenticated as written solely by Breiting (unlike the editing by Bormann). Yet nowhere in these conversations does Hitler denounce religion. On the contrary, Hitler mentions a conciliation with Roman and German Catholicism where "people like von Papen and many others are establishing good relations with the Vatican." In Hitler-- Memoirs of a Confidant, Hitler reveals himself through conversation to colleagues from a conference on economic policy. In it Hitler is reported to have spoken, glowingly, about raising the "treasures of the living Christ," "the persecution of the true Christians and sanctimonious churches that have placed themselves between God and man and to turn away from the anti-Christian , smug individualism of the past," and "to educate the youth in particular in the spirit of those of Christ's words that we must interpret anew: love one another; be considerate of your fellow man; remember that each of you is not alone a creature of God, but that you are all brothers!" [Turner, Ch. 23] Nowhere in the Memoirs do we find a Bormann-like anti-Christian statements as found in the Table-Talk. #4: A few notes - My opponent acts as if only atheists can believe Hittler was a Christian. Not only is this false, but even if it were true, it has nothing to do with the truth of the subject. - My opponent did not refute my quotes. #5: Sources Calic, Edouard, Ed., "Secret Conversations With Hitler," The John Day Company Carrier, Richard C. "On the Trail of Bogus Quotes" Helmreich, Ernst Christian, "The German Churches Under Hitler," Wayne State University Press, 1979 Speer, Albert, "Inside the Third Reich: Memoirs by Albert Speer," Galahad Books, 1970 Toland, John, "Adolf Hitler," Anchor Books, Doubleday, 1976 Trevor-Roper, H.R. [Introduction], "Hitler's Table Talk 1941-44: His Private Conversations, Redwood Press, Ltd., 1953 Turner, Jr., Henry Ashby, "Hitler-- Memoirs of a Confidant," Yale University Press, 1978 VonLang, Jochen, "The Secretary Martin Bormann: The Man Who Manipulated Hitler," Random House, 1979