God has predestined before the foundation of the world who would be saved (Calvinistic Soteriology).

Thanks for your response. I want to make the point again that I hope you don't take anything I say as a personal attack or even an attack against Calvinism. Also that I'm not a "Molinist" I just personally find it to be a better fit. I think for the most part you and I believe the same things. I too believe that God chooses us to be vessels for caring out His will. I believe that He chose Israel, the characters of the Bible both believers and non believers for His will. I'm not saying God doesn't have control, I'm just saying that it is possible that His plan is being carried out under His control while giving man free will. Free will to choose God or not choose God. It doesn't change God's sovereignty, it makes all people accountable, God's love universal, and His judgement just. It also keeps the message of Jesus one of hope. That all those who come to him will not be turned away, this is a beautiful message but I think it loses everything when there's no free will. How do you evangelize? "You have no choice, if you're going to be saved you can't resist it and if you're going to hell there is no hope, you have no choice!" I don't believe that to be the Christian message. I also want to point out that Molinism doesn't take away predestination which is your debate topic, what it does is include free will and the choice to choose God. In your example of Pharaoh there would be 2 options. Calvinism: God created Pharaoh to choose not God (to die) so that he could use Pharaoh as part of His plan and display His power through this use. Molinism: God knew that Pharaoh of his own free will would choose not God (to die) and God used Pharaoh to display His power through this use. It's the same Pharaoh, same use, same display of Gods power, same outcome, the only difference is that Pharaoh had a choice and God didn't create someone to die for His own use. This doesn't change anything that you understand about God other than the idea that God wants all men to live, he knows they won't choose to, but he wants them to and His love and grace are available to and sufficient for all men. Romans 9: As I said before I'm not in the business of limiting God. If God wants to choose between 2 brothers as to whom will serve whom, who will be used by God in whichever way is in His will, that's up to God, and He has the power to do that and I believe all of His choices are just. I don't have any reservations in regards to God having the power to do these things. This is evidence that God's has a plan however is not evidence that God in totality chose who would be saved or not. It's also in no way proof that free will is not taken into account. This decision was made before the 2 boys were born, but that doesn't mean that God didn't know what they would do with their free will ahead of time as Molinism would suggest. Even if their free will wasn't taken into account and for whatever reason God chose Jacob that still has no bearing on whether the totality of salvation was chosen by God without mans choice. The raising up of Pharaoh "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." This shows that God had a plan and used Pharaoh as part of that plan, but no bearing on our discussion of salvation. Romans 9:19 Sounds like a question a Calvinist should ask. Why would you find fault in man if he has no free will? You can find fault because all men are sinners, but that would include the elected as well. It might make more sense if God knew before hand where their free will would lead them, in the world God created and make a better argument for a Molinistic view. That's not to say that God doesn't intervene like in the case of Paul who didn't find Christ through natural situations. We are dead in our sins, yes we know this Romans 6:23, 2 Corinthians 4:4 does say we have been blinded but it's referring to us been blinded by the Devil, ((g)od of this age). Romans 1 is pretty clear that though God was evident they chose not God and God "gave them over" to their choices. 2 Corinthians 4:6 tells us that is the same Christian God that created literal light, that creates the light of knowledge within the Christian that they find in Christ. These are all great verses as are all verses in the Bible but has nothing to do with the topic. None of these would lead one to Clavinism. As for how it applies to myself and what I had to do with my salvation, I chose to have faith in Christ. We are saved by grace through faith. By Molonism's view God created a world in which I would chose to be saved. Keeping God's sovereignty and control but also keeping my choice and free will. Acts 16:14 a woman who believed in God heard the message of Jesus by way of Paul and her heart was open by God. This happens to all of us who choose to believe. By Molonisms view God created a world in which if she heard this message in this situation she would chose to believe. Just as with myself, you, and every Christian. Not and argument for Calvinism. John 6:44 says that "God draws them in", I totally believe God draws us in, this is in no way change by force. God does not force us to chose him. I can't see how any of this would biblically lead us to Calvinism. I don't disagree with all of Calvinism but the taking away of free will to chose God or not isn't biblical in my opinion. John 7:17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. We have to chose. Even in the Molonist view where God creates a world in which these outcome will come to pass, we still have to choose. We're not that different my friend. But I would argue that your view has the opportunity to dishearten the disbeliever, the Molonist view would tell the nonbeliever that yes God created a world where He knows what will happen, but you still get to choose. You can choose Christ today and be saved. Thanks again!