The debate.org site rules should be more strictly enforced.

1) Room for Improvement"However, the argument does not apply to enforcing debate.org site rules almost entirely changes in enforcement policy that do not increase the workload. If there is any increase in workload, user-moderators can be used for the enforcement, as I suggested."But 1) Giving mod powers to more people DOES require a workload from Juggle, especially if you are proposing that there be 10 new mods..... And 2) The explosion of user mods already presents a crapload of other potential problems that are far worse than just harmless insults. Juggle does have a very, VERY finite amount of resources to expend by updating DDO, and it would be far better to use those updates on cutting down on spam and forfeited debates than it would be to give out mod powers to a ton of other people JUST to cut down on insults. "The topic is whether the rule enforcement should be tightened, not whether minor policy infractions should be unmercifully punished"What youre proposing though is exactly that though, unmerciful punishment/censorship of minor policy infractions, in this case petty insults. "Con argues that featuring poor-quality debates and posting spam opinions ought to receive resources that might go site rules. But those are policy issues, not limitations of resources. If the DDO wanted to, it could easily filter debates by the Elo rating of the debaters and feature the ones involving the high-rated debaters."That still requires significant effort and resources on Juggle's side to carry out such an update though. "The subject of our debate is whether DDO should expand the region of civility"And im arguing that its fine the way it is, with personal insults being allowed yet people who significantly abuse the privilege being dealt with on a case by case basis...... The current policy is a hell of a lot better then the crazy police-state youre advocating. " Con wrongly supposes that I'm advocating banning The Weekly Stupid. Not at all. All that's required is to rename it something like The Weekly Worst, and to avoid direct insults like “stupid” in the descriptions. "That is single handedly the stupidest and most asinine recommendation I have ever heard......2) Stricter moderation attracts + keeps better users"Nah. I never suggested banning without ample warning. "Youre proposing massive censorship on anything that you deem an insult, which according to your definition of an insult includes just about everything. "Google finds 317 uses of the word “moron” on DDO in the past year."Which again, is a rate of less than one occurrence per day..... "So maybe there are 30 to 50 uses in the past year of one member calling another member a moron"And that doesnt warrant cracking down on insults and enforcing the ToS to the point where its just stupid. 30-50 times in the past year averages out to just ONCE A WEEK. "Even if uncommon, the site would be better if it were less."But the difference wont be that much better, especially if 15 people are running around with mod powers being able to censor anything they want, insult or no insult. "The goal of debate is to argue based upon facts and logic, which is why the site ought have higher standards against ranting."Calling a stupid argument stupid though isnt ranting, its a does of reality, which a lot of people on here could use once in a while... "This thread has dozens of insults over a few days -- with little profanity. I reported the insults, but moderators did not intervene. "Yeah, because youre the only one on here who thinks that 'youre a debate cheat' is something that should be censored...."He should have been warned before it got out of hand"If profanity wasnt used and a line wasnt crossed, then it DIDNT get out of hand. "DDO should build it's position as a place for legitimate debate. "DDO already IS a legitimate place for debate though, if it werent then you wouldnt still be here now would you?"Con argues that there is no evidence that increased civility promotes teacher recommendation. It follows from the nature of the responsibility of teaching."Its not the teachers responsibility to go out and look for debate sites to recommend to her students, and claim that they are not telling their students of DDO because of the (low) frequency of personal attacks thats just stupid.....3) More moderation improves debate skills"Con argues that if DDO gets rid of members showing bad behavior, they will just go elsewhere. Yes, that's the whole idea."So your idea is to ban everybody? Not everybody who shows bad behavior is by extension a bad member, and your standards of what qualifies as bad behavior can label just about anybody as someone with bad behavior, and by your logic also a bad member....." If you are trying to learn to swim, it's not helpful to have non-swimmers throwing objects into the pool"And its also not helpful to be censored every time you say something when youre trying to learn to debate. "Debate skills are learned by debating, not personally fighting trolls."If someone being a troll prevents someone from improving your debate skills, then that person is too mentally incapable of ever becoming a good debater in the first place. "No one would ever be banned for saying another member misunderstands, because that's not an insult."Sure they could.... If there are 10 or more mods whose job it is to censor anything they deem insulting and ban repeat offenders, one of those mods could easily abuse their power and ban someone for saying another member misunderstands something, and does so in a snide tone..... On the other hand it can easily be seen as an insult by telling someone that they dont understand something, since you even consider the phrase “You're a strange little fellow, ...” an insult..... "Moderators get to use use judgment on insults."Moderators arent perfect though, and neither is their judgement.... They easily can make mistakes and make an asinine move when handling a situation that involves censoring something they percieve as insulting. "but better enforcement encourages trolls to leave the site"Not everyone who uses insults though is a troll, and that is something you cant seem to comprehend. There are tons of smart people on here who routinely insult stupid people for believing stupid things, while at the same time there are stupid people who never say anything insulting to anyone else at all..... Tougher enforcement, especially the level you are proposing it should be raised to, would not only turn DDO into a psychotic police state, but also open the door to allow for horrible abuse of power by a dozen different moderators, an exodus of intelligent people who frequently call it like they see it and insult others, postpone other much more needed updates DDO could use................ All just to cut down on insults that by your own statistics happen less than 1 instance per day........===========================================================================================The debate.org site rules should NOT be more strictly enforced. Its best to simply let personal insults take place and only go after people who cross a line and abuse the privilege, since actual curse words are only used at a rate of less than once per day while other personal attacks are very tame and well within the realm of what is considered acceptable conduct.