DDO vs Edb8

Overview There are a few things I want to point out. Larz makes quite a few assertions during his rounds, which I will point out later. Also as I suspected he tried to show where his site excels because it focuses on a *targeted area*. Meaning he is stating that because his site focuses on formal debate, his site is better at producing quality stuff. There are two issues with that(1) DDO focuses on formal debates as well (2) This is a debate about which *site* is better, not which site is better at *certain* things. R1) LearningLarz states that DDO fails compared to Edb8 in terms of progression. This is entirely false. He also asserts that the adopt a noob programs have failed. Some tournaments have not *finished* but that does not mean that they have "failed". Even if some of the new members get locked into real life activities that hinder them from finishing, they still are *learning* from the experience. Not to mention there are so many more things that DDO does. (1) Ragnar has made a new users guide in order to help new members improve their efforts and how to learn about the site and debate[1](2) Max has worked on and installed an entire new page for new members so they can learn about the site [2] (2a) As you noticed in that thread, there is an entire list of members that you can contact with any questions in regards to the site, and all of those are willing to work with you on debating and improving. In addition to this a variety of experienced members including myself have offered to help any new members with debating and opened out inbox's to help them improve. Some of these members include zaradi, bluesteel, myself and many othersWe as experienced members of the site encourage and stand behind improvement, and are more than willing to help new members learn. (3) There are constant adopt a noob tournaments that help new users learn and that do well. One is in progress now [3] R2) FormatsLarz asserts that DDO does not have debate formats but this is false as well. The open structure of DDO enables any type of format. All you have to do is structure the debate in the first round, and proceed with the format you like. See a debate from Liz and how this is possible [4]Larz is basically saying that his site gives you the option for video debating, team debate, and all these other features but DDO can do the same thing as well. The open format does not *target* a specific type of debate (formal) but allows member to do any type of debate they want. From music debates, video debates, team debates (see my profile, I've did quite a few), formal debate, non formal debates, etc. The open setup in Round 1 literally appeals to any type of user and you can structure the debate in *any* way you want. He will say his site does this as well, but DDO does it and does it better as Larz himself has stated he want's formal debate to be a driving force on his site. R3) AdsThis point is basically a non factor. (1) A simple ad block fixes this. (2) Adds actually help the site. Adds give juggle money, the money goes back into the site which then in turn is used to build up the organic hits on the site. They money also feeds back into paid for hits, and building a footprint on the web where the site can be easily found drawing in more members. For larz to do this and with the revenue his site draws, he would have to invest his *own* money into marketing and building an online presence where as DDO is owned by juggle and is profitable , so they are able to invest money into marketing from the add revenue. R4) Customization Larz basically asserts you can change the color of a background, and the font of your profile. This is such a minor impact that it can be discounted in comparison to the *major* impacts I have presented. DDO allows you to customize your profile, just because you can't change the color of a background or bold text on a profile, does not make it a better.R5) Bugs / Development The bugs Larz is referring to is so minor that they are fixed instantly. He states he can fix bugs and knows coding, but the only bugs on DDO are normally minor such as the site error one, which is normally taken care of within minuets. R6) SocializationLarz asserts that his site can be linked to shout boxes tagging, etc. Again if you even count this argument it is a minor impact or even negated by the fact that DDO can update posts to the blog and is linked to facebook. Both sites have minor features with this, so trying to compare this is so marginal that it is not even an impact as both do little enough to cancel each other out. R7) Judge DevelopmentLarz then states that judging development on his site and the only thing DDO has is a leaderboard. The leaderboard by itself negates his argument, because while it does not improve the *quality* of the vote it does improve the *quantity* of the votes, and encourages users to vote in bulk. As far as improving voting procedures, you can tie this back into my R1. There are active experienced members, and voting guides that encourage people to vote properly. Both of these explain how to vote and experienced members take the time to work with newer members and show them how to vote properly. In addition to this when a bad vote is received, voting moderation leaves the reason why the vote is removed so the member is aware that his vote was removed and why, so he can work on how to place a better RFD. C1) Quality This is the bare assertion I was referring to. Larz just asserts that we have more members but *on balance* his site has better debates. This is not even logical. His site only has 200 debates in total, and with an on balance perspective DDO has a collective history of amazing debates. Roy Lathams debate history alone beats out his entire site in terms quality and numbers. Just by the sheer number of users, and the amount of quality users we have defeats this point. As members like bsh, whiteflame, roy, bluesteel, tyler, zaradi, have thousands of high quality debates when totaled up. He also asserts that fun topics are not of good quality but that is incorrect. Any topic can be a quality topic, and some of the comic topics are a way for good debaters to have fun and attract a certain user base> Meaningful judgments (This is bias as DDO has quality judgments, he can't just assert that his site has quality due to preference. We even have an elect a judge system. There is not pretense for this point)> Tournaments ( we have more than edb8 and have better quality members in them)> Feedback (Negated already above)> Pre Drat rounds ( this is not even a factor as you can draft arguments here as well)> Auto FF ( Same on DDO except awarding the win which you will get anyway, non factor)> Dozens of things > Bias assertionHe then asserts they have better debaters which is not true. I dare him to show a list of his best debaters and put it up against ours. There is no comparison, just our first page of the leader boards beats out edb8 alone, which was demonstrated in his own tournament that he made last year. Again just by the sheer number of users we get, we are more than likely just by odds, to get higher quality debaters just out of quantity. This is a proven fact when you compare both sites. C2) Net worthThis is simple. This is a debate about which site has more value. Value is determined by a variety of things. The amount of profitability determines the *value* of something by definition. The profitability of a site helps extend it's online presence which then in turn gains membersC3) TypesHe says edb8 is geared to less formal debate while basing an entire round on why he has higher quality debates because of the focus on formal debate. See my R2 for format, to expand on this. The setup in DDO allows user to make any type of debate they want. From formal, to informal, to comic debates, fun debates, troll debates etc which appeals to everyone. Where as my adversary has stated hundreds of time, his site is geared to only formal debateC4) FeaturesThe opps and polls section alone beats all the features my adversary brings up. Strictly because of the traffic it draws and how the traffic is turned to profitability which then in turns extends to organic and non organic hits which draws new membership. The features he is referring to is changing a background or playing with the font of text. We have 4 main sections which are Debate, Ops, Forums, and Polls and all of them draw a specific crowd. Needless to say he says his site does it better, but just by preference and membership alone shows that DDOS style is preferred and does it better. C5/6) SocialHe says anyone can use the secondary features on other sites which is true, but DDO encourages it where as his site does not. We have nightly hangouts, mafia hangouts, and a vast push for social interaction. If anything mafia in the games forum alone negates his point. Larz asserts you can do the stuff on here on different sites, which is true but DDO is a community where we actively participate as such. We foster a community presence and do those activities together and on site. Which is why mafia is so clique. It encourages people to stay on DDO because of relationships they have built, and the break from debating it gives them. Going to other sites is fine, but doing those activities on site such as mafia better increases the presence of the site online which adds to why it is a better site. ConclusionImpacts I'm winning on1) DDO fosters a community presence and encourages people to participate in activities on site which increases the value of the site as a whole. (Mafia, Fan fics, Etc)2) Profitability / online presence 3) More high quality members and debates4) Debate formating5) Encouraging all types of debate6) Appeals to everyone7) Social interactionSources[1] http://tinyurl.com...[2] http://www.debate.org...[3] http://www.debate.org...[4] http://tinyurl.com...