This house states that there is/was/were a Creator/s.

Thank you for you debate. I find that you are a person with some sense on the matter and that you are taking me literal in the fact that I do not want to debate on monotheism blah blah blah.... This however is not the point of the debate. I think that when you say "However, it in quantum physics this is turned on it's head, and events are causeless and just happen. If there is energy, it will rip into an electron and positron this amount of time and then fall back into itself at random. It's an absolutely causeless event. As such, there's no reason to suppose the Big Bang needs to have a cause or exist within time, it might actually just happen and the it might just a causeless zero sum energy fluctuation." That things can happen without a cause. If so than you must prove to me that we were not caused by anything (Big Bang, God, Zeus, The Great Wild Spirit, or Quantum Physics). For if there is no cause than we can not make a cause out of thin air as you so kindly pointed out. You still however avoided my question, "Where did all the energy/matter in the Universe come from?" You also avoided my premise, "There must be a beginning." I find this to be as obvious as the reflexive axiom but for the sake of the debate... If there is time which you have already stated there is "There's a joke, why does time exist? So that everything doesn't happen at once. The real question is why does spacetime exist, and it seems that the answer is so that everything isn't nothing." then there must be a beginning. For if we do not have a beginning then how can we have history oh wait under your theory we don't and Adolf Hitler is having to deal with Julius Caesar who is dealing with Napoleon Bonaparte. This clearly is not happening so their must be some sort of timeline. As with all timelines there must be a beginning to it. So if I have to get any deeper than that I don't know where to begin. This is all well and good but more to the point since there is a beginning there must be a story behind it. What is that story? What caused the energy to be there? "Let's say, I don't know where the energy comes from." You apparently do so in laymen's terms (for I must be an idiot) where did it come from. What caused the matter to be there? What caused the entropy to be there? Answer these without a God/s and without a causeless happening for for everything there is a cause otherwise things would be popping up everywhere. Now even with your ridiculous example of the nickels there is a possibility that could happen granted not under modern scientific law but it could happen. This is just like the probability question that my teacher asked us, "What is the probability that a coin could turn up heads?" Most people would say that it is 50/50 chance that the coin would turn up heads. I however am intelligent enough to realize that there is a third (however slight) a third possibility. The coin will land on its side. Realistically this may only happen once in a hundred billion times but possibly can still happen every time. Correct? No you miss understood me I said since it possibly exists it must exist in a POSSIBLE universe not actually exists. The flaw with your jelly doughnut is this. It is not omnipotent. Meaning all powerful or almighty. It is just the best of something not the best of EVERYTHING. That is where you jelly doughnut went. Where did all the energy/matter in the Universe come from? It had to come from somewhere. There must be a beginning. This is proven I proved it. Is there a system that put it into motion? Something did. If so what is that system and where did it go? I propose that a Creator/s is that system and that that Creator/s is somewhere (outside of the laws of science). If you say that the system is only a system that works under certain circumstances then what are those circumstance? I propose that this Creator/s is only willing to work on It's/their own conditions and in It's/their own time. If we know those circumstances then why can we not reproduce those same circumstances? It is broke so that don't work. When it works if it works I will give a strong probability that there is no Creator/s. Other than that congrats for introducing me to a subject I will have to investigate further. If we do not know those circumstances then how come we deny a Creator/s? I think that the arguments shown are very strong evidence for the fact that there is a Creator. There is a possibility that there is/was/were a Creator/s. There is a possibility of anything. Even the possibility that there is Bigfoot or something like that. Now philosophically if there is a possibility of something then it must exist in some possible universe. In some possible world there is a possible God it is just that simple. If there is a possible universe that an omnipotent being/s exists/existed then it/they would be greater than if It/they had not existed even in a possible universe. "This wrongly makes the leap from conceptual to material. You can't say it's better if this exists, therefore it exists, even if that thing is by definition the best thing. The 'thing' being considered here is a concept. Whereas the 'better thing' is an actual material existence." Where did I start talking about Creator/s as things? If I did I apologize for the slip of the tongue I mean finger. HAHA Sorry back to the debate. It is not better for some being to be in existence rather it (that is the being) is greater by existing than not existing. Therefore a Omnipotent Being/s must exists by it's very nature. If there is a possible universe that an omnipotent being/s exists/existed then it/they would be greater than if It/they had not existed even in a possible universe. If It/they is greater than It/they was then It/they is not truly an omnipotent being. Now in order for It/they to be truly omnipotent being/s than It/they must be as great as is possible. Omnipotent means almighty or infinite in power. Therefore something infinite must infinitely exist. Apply the same principal that we just applied to the possible to reality This is true because our theoretical (up into this point) being/s are omnipotent therefore they must exist. Sorry your jelly doughnut is not omnipotent if is was it might just eat you. This house states that there is/was/were a Creator/s. Your last statement made no sense sorry. But I do believe that I have shown enough evidence that this is true. --- Thank you for the debate I thought that you had some very interesting points that I want to ponder on some more. But overall I think you miss interpret my argument and that you fail to understand that I am not just a Jesus nut who thinks that any argument I find is perfectly useful and proves that there is a God. Thanks again hope to continue to find as logical people as you out there. Sorry if my argument seem a little skewed or ill thought out but I did respond at 5:00 in the morning.