The Problem of a Historical Jesus (Why we don"t know the actual historical Jesus)

There is 0 proof that the jesus mentioned in the printed bible ever existed. Now I'm not saying that he didn't exist. I'm saying there is no proof he did. And there isn't. Certainly not one with awe inspiring magical powers. Now the thing that is truly terrifying is that the bible teaches that suffering is somehow a very good thing. Yep, someone's torturing though horrific pain is a very good thing. How truly demented and deranged is that? And what can children possibly learn from suffering especially children except nothing and that suffering and pain is a horrible terrible thing and should never happen if they understand even that especially when daddy is bashing their faces in while sticking his you know what into their - well you can take a wild guess. Buddhists teach the "end" of suffering. christians teach the beginning of suffering. Oh gee, I just cannot possibly imagine which one I will choose. I only dug into "suffering". The article below and the videos dig into the mere existence of this fabled jesus character. This is taken from The Dossier of Reason The Problem of a Historical Jesus (Why we don"t know the actual historical Jesus) I. No contemporary historical evidence A.No historian alive during Jesus day wrote about Jesus despite ample opportunity 1.The kings coming to his birth 2.Herod"s slaughter of baby boys 3. The overthrowing of money changers 4. Jesus triumphant entry into Jerusalem where he is declared king by the whole town. 5. Darkness covering the whole earth for hours on Jesus" Death 6.The earthquakes at Jesus" death 7.The rending of the temple veil at Jesus" Death 8. The resurrection of Jesus that was seen by 500 witnesses. 9. The resurrection of dead holy men who were "seen by many." 10. Not one single contemporary reference to any of these or any other event in Jesus' life. B. Living Roman satirists who made fun of Jewish messiahs had nothing to say about Jesus II. The Gospels are contradicting, late hearsay accounts A. Mark, the earliest gospel, was written at least after 70 A.D. (referencing fall of temple) by a non-eyewitness, and makes numerous cultural and geographical errors that a Jewish writer would not have made such as locations of rivers, cultural customs regarding divorce, locations of towns or Jesus quoting from the greek Septuagint etc. (see geographical and historical errors in the bible.) B. The other gospels all copied from Mark. Luke and Matthew contain over 70% of Mark and mainly make changes in attempts to fix blatant errors made in Mark and to correct Mark"s poor grammar.The writer of Luke even reveals to us in Luke 1:2 that he was not an eyewitness, but that the story has been passed down to him. C. All contradict in nearly every way (see contradictions in the bible) 1.What year was Jesus born (Herod or Caesar"s tax?) 2.His genealogy 3.The day he was crucified and his final words 4.The resurrection account D. There are over 40 gospel accounts, the earliest being written at least later than 70 A.D., not just the four in the bible. 1. Four where chosen by the church father Iraeneus because he believed the earth was founded on four pillars and so too, should the gospels be founded by only four accounts. 2. Iraenus also revealed the names of the Gospels in the late second century, without any reason to assume they where the authentic authors - no one knows who actually wrote them! 3. John was initially considered heretical by the early church because of its variation from the synoptic but was overwhelmingly popular amongst Christians and so was included. E. What is more likely - That the natural order of the universe was indeed suspended in our favor and recorded by second hand witnesses with conflicting details, or that they were simply lying? III. Paul, Peter and other NT writers did not seem to know anything about the historical Jesus. A. Never wrote about any of the events taking place in the gospel 1.The virgin birth 2.His miracles 3.His baptism 4. Never references or even acknowledges Jesus" ethical teachings on earth B. The apostolic writers only wrote about the death, burial and resurrection - and never even placed them geographically. C They never referenced his teachings on earth or his actions in the gospels, even when it would have clarified doctrinal issues they were debating in their writings such as divorce, eating unclean meat etc... If they knew about them, why not? Instead, the gospels appear to have been written to agree with the apostle's teachings and arguments after the fact, not the other way around. IV. The early church did not seem to know anything about a historical Jesus. A. Huge amounts of disagreement over Jesus in the first hundred years 1. Some churches didn"t even believe he had a physical body, prompting Paul to write about that very issue. 2. There was an enormous debate between all the major early churches as to whether Jesus was divine or not, this was settled at the council of Nicea by the Roman Emperor Constantine. 2. No early church fathers referenced Jesus' own words or teachings as recorded in the gospels to settle theological disputes. V. Proving Jesus" Claims A. We are talking about a man who is claimed to be divine and to be the creator of the entire universe! This is quite the claim, what if I told you that I was really a time-traveler... what sort of evidence would you need to believe such a claim? Would you settle for me saying that "you can't prove that I am not a time-traveler? Yet time travel is not as bold as the claim of divinity that people believe Jesus made. B. "What about eyewitnesses?" the Christian may ask. Why would people follow him and report his miracles if they didn"t actually see them take place? 1. Today there are Hindu Magi and Gurus in India that have been reported by witnesses to be able to perform the same types of miracles that Jesus performed during his supposed time on earth. Why do we not accept those eyewitness / first hand accounts today such as Sathya Sai Baba, who has more than a million followers and thousands of eyewitness accounts of his purported miracles including a virgin birth. 2. Why is there no contemporary record of the 500 "brothers" (the witnesses to Christs" ressurection.) Why is Paul the only one that thought it was worth writing about an event in which Christ proved his resurrection to a large number of people? What if I told you that 500 people saw me walking on water - would me just telling you that be sufficient evidence? 3. Plethora of "savior gods" that have same attributes and miracles attributed to them as those that are attributed to Jesus that we do not accept as true. a. Mithradates b. Krishna c. Romulus d. Perseus e. Heracles C. Another common christian objection is "Why would early christians be willing to be martyred if they hadn"t actually seen his ressurection and known without a doubt that he was actually god?" 1. The answer to this is to consider modern cults. Why would 39 members of the cult "Heaven"s Gate" be willing to commit suicide believing that the act would grant them celestial passage on a space ship that was following Haley"s Comet? The death cult bought a telescope to observe the spacecraft that their leader promised them would be there, and when the telescope revealed no such thing - they returned it angrily insisting that the telescope was broken instead of listening to reason and realizing they had believed a complete myth. They killed themselves in March of 1997. 2. What about Jim Jones, or david koresh, or charles manson? Does the commited insanity of their followers speak to the truth of their teachings as well? And now the videos... http://www.youtube.com... - jesus wasn"t jesus (Aron Ra) http://www.youtube.com... - The True Core of the jesus Myth (Christopher Hitchens) http://www.youtube.com... - Did jesus Exist? http://www.youtube.com... - Why christianity is Unreasonable (Richard Carrier) http://www.youtube.com... - Biggest Lie - The fourth gospel ("The first striking revision in the 4th gospel is that the ministry of jesus has ballooned out from from one year to three. The writers not only make a reference not only from one but to three distinct passover festivals. Now was this just a tradition that some early christians held to a three year ministry and others to a one year ministry? Can anyone honestly maintain that whole dialogues could be remembered word for word for many decades and yet believers have no common agreement whether these words were said during one year or during three years?") Um duh. Do you REALLY THINK jesus existed? http://www.youtube.com... - The Gospel According to Carrier (Richard Carrier states jesus may have possibly existed, but scrap all the mythology) http://www.youtube.com... - Proving the Historicity of Jesus? Tracie and David http://www.youtube.com... - Stephanie Thomason vs Matt Dillahunty, or how not to debate an Atheist! (skip to the 7:00 mark!!!) Oh this one is good and Pro is the caller with his furry tongue. http://www.youtube.com... - What did jesus do for you? RULES: Again the main topic from The Dossier of Reason was the existence of jesus as are the videos. But for these rules, its a bit tougher... Prove that christ has ever existed and his suffering and pain is a "good" thing while in the mean time children's daddies are punching them in the face and brutally raping them and prove that children can somehow learn from suffering and pain. dsjpk5 will not be allowed to vote in the voting process.