Evolution (Con) vs. Creationism (Pro)

I’ve made it clear that round 2 was for arguments where each side presents his/her case on why their model works and why the other doesn’t. While I could have been clearer on that, it is explicitly stated in the debate structure that rebuttals aren’t until at least round 3. Reading your argument, it is obvious that it was written as a direct rebuttal to what I’ve said. We will continue this debate but you may be penalized in the voting. With the example of dogs and cats, I don’t deny that the loss or rearrangement of current genetic information can result in a new species. What I am stating is that for macroevolution to work (ex. From wolves to whales), new genetic information that creates new functional genes must be introduced to the population. I agree with the statement that mutations are random but all have been observed to destroy information as you dispute in the next part of your argument. You have brought up Lenski’s 20 year experiment with E. coli bacteria developing the ability to use citrate as an energy source where glucose is scarce. I’ll have to give Lenski credit for his persistence in maintaining a 20 year experiment. The logic behind the experiment also makes sense. If evolution is to be observed, it would be seen in bacteria because of the rate they reproduce. Although, it is unknown how the mutation specifically affected how the E. coli bacteria utilizes citrate, the possible explanations proposed by Lenski and his colleagues are still consistent with the loss of information. In the article you have put up, the authors claim, “One possibility is that the Cit lineage activated a ‘‘cryptic’’ transporter (41), that is, some once-functional gene that has been silenced by mutation accumulation. ” This is still is a loss of genetic information because the E. coli loses a functional gene to process citrate. Another possibility that they also claim could have happened is, “A more likely possibility, in our view, is that an existing transporter has been co-opted for citrate transport under oxic conditions. This transporter may previously have transported citrate under anoxic conditions (43) or, alternatively, it may have transported another substrate in the presence of oxygen. ” [1]The first part where the existing transporter now transports citrate regardless of the oxidative state is a loss of specificity which would count as a loss of information. Evolution would require an increase of specificity. For example, in order for single-celled organisms to evolve to multicelluar organisms, different cells would have to cooperate and take on specific roles. The second part is also a loss of specificity as a transporter that transported a different substance under the presence of oxygen no longer only transports that specific substance. You also bring up multi-drug-resistant (MDR) germs as evidence that new genetic information can arise naturally. It is important to note that MDR germs have been around long before humans were able to mass produce antibiotics as it was already being produced by various bacteria and fungi. For example, antibiotic resistant bacteria have been discovered in the frozen bodies of Arctic explorers in 1845 [2]. They are becoming more prevalent due to natural selection. You have a population of bacteria, some of them already resistant to bacteria. The population is treated with antibiotics and the non-resistant bacteria die out. The remaining bacteria are allowed to reproduce to the point that you have a large population of antibiotic resistant bacteria. Even the MDR germs that result from mutations are still due to the loss of genetic information. For example, streptomycin-resistance is due to mutations altering the ribosome so the specific sites where streptomycin usually attaches to and kill the bacteria are gone [3] [4]. This is another example of a loss of specificity. In addition, because the ribosomes are altered, this makes the process where bacteria creates proteins vital to its life becomes less effective. In a streptomycin-free environment, the bacteria would be outcompeted by normal bacteria [6]. Another example of a mutation-caused resistance is found in Mycobacterium tuberculosis. This bacteria normally produces an enzyme that would interact with antibiotics to turn it into its lethal form. However, a mutation where the gene responsible for the enzyme is damaged results in little to no enzyme to interact with the antibiotic. Therefore, the antibiotic will remain in its harmless form. [5]Your explanation for living fossils is inadequate. Many of these living fossils have been living for hundreds of millions of years. Tell any believer in an old Earth that Earth’s climate has been consistent for that amount of time and they would tell you that you are crazy. Such living fossils have survived numerous mass extinctions that have altered the environment so much that it has nearly wiped out all species. They would have had to evolve to survive. For example, the horseshoe crab, supposedly 425 million years old has survived 16 mass extinctions. In addition, all the other organisms around them would be evolving including their predators, parasites, prey, and competition. Regardless of the environment around them, mutations still occur. [7](Note: About the Gould quote, I keep my arguments in various word documents and it appears I had some mixed up when putting together that argument. Here is the source: . http://www.nature.com... (You need a subscription to Nature to access the article. I apologize)) What I said about the Incan stones, I take that back. I admit that these stones are not authentic after doing more research on them. However, there is still ample evidence that humans and dinosaurs have coexisted together. For instance, if you look at many cultures around the world, all of them have stories about dragons that can resemble dinosaurs. In fact, dragon stories can be found on every continent except for Antartica (for obvious reasons) [8]. The late evolutionist Carl Sagan recognizes the fact that ancient peoples knew about dinosaurs and tries to explain it in his book The Dragons of Eden. [9] The report on the Biochemist about how soft tissue and proteins can survive such a long time is based on experimental evidence, that even under the best conditions, such things do not last that long. However, because the environment that dinosaurs lived in is the opposite of ideal it can be safe to assume that soft tissues and proteins won’t come close to lasting that long. Under your third statement, I understand that you may be limited by # of characters so in the next round I suggest you provide evidence that dinosaurs died out around 65 million years ago. Regarding transitional forms, you seem to be using circular reasoning to justify why transitional forms are rare in the millions of fossils we find. Transitional fossils are rare because they are transitional? As shown in the living fossils argument, the environment will not stay constant for millions of years. In fact, it takes just one catastrophe to completely change the environment. Furthermore, it would be unfair for me to go through that complete list of “transitional forms” and refute every single one. What I suggest next round is that you select a few that you believe are the best examples, and then we can go from there. Sources:1. . http://myxo.css.msu.edu...2. McGuire, R. , Eerie: human arctic fossils yield resistant bacteria, Medical Tribune, 29 December, 1988, pp. 1, 23.3. Davies, L, Brzezinska, M. and Benveniste, R. , R factors: biochemical mechanisms of resistance to amino glycoside antibiotics, Annals of the New York Academy of Science 182:226–233, 1971.4. Davies, J. and Nomura, M. , The genetics of bacterial ribosomes, Annual Review of Genetics 6:203–234, 1972.5. Wieland, C. , Antibiotic resistance in bacteria, Journal of Creation 8(l):5–6, 1994; p. 5.6. Gartner, T. and Orias, E. , Effects of mutations to streptomycin resistance on the rate of translation of mutant genetic information, J. Bacteriology 91:1021–1028, 1966.7. . https://en.wikipedia.org...8. . http://www.draconika.com...9. . http://creation.com...