A Christian can lose their salvation 2

"once some-one has known the love of God, they are literally UNABLE to turn away from him." So the angels to turned away from God "never ever" knew the love of God? (Jude 6; Rev 12:4) So Adam and Eve "never" knew God's love before they turned away? Even Satan himself was not always the Devil, did he not "ever" experience God's love? Con says Christians are "UNABLE," that is, THEY DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY,a to turn away from God. So would this not impinge on their free will? Salvation maintained by force? Why didn't God create man without the ability to sin in the first place so that no one would go to hell? Robot Christians; is that what we become once we accept Jesus? He says that Matt 24:13 "does nothing to prove that those who stumble will not be saved." But surely no one could deliberately "practice" sin without repenting and be saved. There are many Christians who lose faith in God and embrace such things as atheism, agnosticism, homosexuality, etc, and maintain these positions all their lives. Surely they have not endured to the end. If, as Con claims, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is never accepting him in the first place, but there are people who have not yet accept Jesus; are they guilty of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit? If so, they will not be forgiven even if they repent and give their lives to Jesus; so salvation isn't open to them. So did Jesus only die for "some" men? Jesus mentioned blasphemy against the Holy Spirit in the context of people who should know better attributing the power of God to Satan, that is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. (Matt 12:22-34) At 2 Cor 11:2-4 Paul tells the believers that he is afraid that they might embrace another Jesus. Tell me, were they not saved? Was this not a congregation of Christians many of whom were saved? Yet, accepting another Jesus, another gospel, would entail losing one's salvation, for it is faith in the true Jesus, in the true Gospel of his death, that his blood cleanses us from sin, that saves us in the first place. To embrace the Jehovah's Witness doctrine, for instance, that Jesus is a created being, (which would be to accept another Jesus) would be a denial of the one who really saves. We are saved by FAITH through grace; how can one still be saved if he loses that faith? "We cannot live our lives in this fear that we are constantly at risk of losing our salvation." Cause in Con's mind, once you're saved you can't lose that salvation, and this leads to the doctrine held by many that no what they do or for how long (even a lifetime) they are still saved. Yet the Bible warns that if we willfully practice sin after knowing the truth, we have no sacrifice for sin left. (Heb 10:26-27) He was talking to Christians. Were there no saved people among them? 1 Tim 1:19-20 says that some have shipwrecked their "faith" (the thing that saves us when put in Jesus). So even the faith itself we put in Jesus needs to be guarded, it can be ruined. Deuteronomy 31:6 was talking about "salvation"? For argument sake, let's say it was, "not fail, nor forsake thee." Now, to whom was this addressed, the Israelites. So, I'll ask Con, were they all saved? If not, then it was conditional. Deuteronomy 30:17-18 "But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess." This is an "if" statement. It would not present even the possibility of turning away from God if this was impossible for people who are saved. If worshipping other gods up to the moment one dies is not turning away from Yahweh, please Con, tell us what is. Previously Con claimed a saved person is UNABLE to turn away from God, so were none in this audience to whom Deuteronomy 30:17-18 is addressed saved? "It says the will be destroyed, but not that God would destroy them. And again, this means they still have salvation." So there you have it. Con claims these people were saved and yet could worship other gods right up to the point when they were killed by their enemies. How is that not "turning away" from God? Is this not just an excuse for church people to do whatever they want, and break God's commands with the understanding that they will still get to heaven? This flies in the face of God's word which says that Jesus will says to them, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matt 7:22-24) To worship false gods right up till you die is not my idea of enduring to the end, which is exactly what one must do to remain saved. (Matt 24:13) Philippians 2:12 says to "work out" our salvation with "fear and trembling." If we can't loose that salvation, what do we have to be afraid of? He was the one who said earlier that we can't live in fear of losing our salvation; this verse says the direct opposite. 1 John 5:13 merely says that they have eternal life, it doesn't comment on weather or not they can or can't lose it; this verse doesn't prove Con's point at all. "Revelations 22:17/6. John 4:14 If it where conditional, it would not be called a gift." Salvation is a gift, but it is conditional that we have to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior first. So gifts do come with conditions. One condition for maintaining that salvation is enduring to the end. (Matt 24:13) I gave 1 Corinthians 3:5-6 to show how the Bible symbolically uses the word "water" to explain its significance in Rev 22:17 and John 4:14. As for John 6:63, the word is life, so if someone does not feed on the word, he will die spiritually. Let Con tell us, can one be both "saved" and "spiritually dead"? Timothy 1:19- Hymenaeus and Alexander Are you serious? You actually believe these guys didn't lose their salvation? It is faith in Jesus that brings salvation, and these guys shipwrecked their faith, not just their works, but their "faith" itself was shipwrecked. Without faith in Jesus there can be no salvation. Paul says he handed them over to Satan! On Matthew 4:4 Con actually says that we won't die if we don't eat the very food Jesus says we need to live. Well, I'll take Jesus' word over his. What about you? He says I never addressed Hebrews 7:25, I did, and I'll do so again. Jesus also says the God "can" raise up to Abraham children from stones. (Matt 3:9) Does that mean he will do it? No. Heb 7:25 is talking about what Jesus "can" do, not what he "will" do; but I n any case, this verse doesn't imply that he forces those who come to him for salvation to stay. In Rom 11:19-22, what is it they were cut off from? Con says its not salvation, let him tell us what it is; this answer should be revealing. "Hebrews 10:26-27 This judgement doesn't mean that we go to hell, it simply means that once in heaven we will have to give an account of our lives." If we are still going to heaven despite practicing sin "willfully," the judgment would not be one to "fear"! At most it might be a scolding; but Paul tells us here to fear this judgment! Verse 28-31 continue to show that this punishment is one worse than physical death under the law of Moses, and under that law people were stoned or burned to death. Sounds a lot like hell to me. Hebrews 6:4-6 says these people have actually "tasted" of the heavenly gift. Only a person who is truly in Christ could taste it, not an unbeliever. They even tasted the "powers of the world to come," now tell me how an unbeliever experiences that? Only through accepting Christ can one do so. But just to make sure, Paul says its not possible for them to "be brought back to repentance," which means that previously they had truly "repented," so this was describing people who were Christians. And they turned away from God, losing their salvation.