God more likely than no, exists

this is one of the worst responses i've seen. but, i think you mean well. and even though you claim to be detached as agnostic, i think it's showing that you're not detached to your posistion by your responses as an objective person should be. NDE's have to do with God because that's what they often show. by far most say that. also... there's pretty conclusive proof that there's more to it than brain damage. there's studies that show they hear and see things when their body was clinically dead. to try to rationalize this as neurons firing in the brain is just that... rationalizing against the most apparent and obvious explanation. conclusive proof means proponderance means i've proven my case in a court of law. NDE's scream of God in their message. to say other wise is being an ostrich with your head in the sand. http://www.near-death.com... ******** >>"if people in gneeral had miracles etc then you'd have a point, but you don't have that. the evidence is in favor of theists, and hte presumption is in favor of them. " Exactly - people in general DON'T have miracles. Nor do people on death beds. This evidence is AGAINST theists, and favors science. I'm not how you can argue that lack of miracles speaks in favor of theism. *************** please reread what i wronte in the context of it all. if people generally don't have them... but theists do... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see there's something to being a theist. now, you may have an argument it's not God.. but you have to admit your response makes no sense in response to mine. *************8 >>"if the thing that distinguishes them is their belief... then at best you could simply insist that it could be their mind or something. but, when the distinguishing variable is their belief, that's not the most obvious explanation. atheists have the burden to rebut that presumption." When the distinguishing variable is belief in the case of a NDE - that's yet MORE evidence against theism. If only theists interpret this phenomenon as a NDE or religious experience, then that simply supports the fact that it is religious conditioning warping their opinion, rather than an actual experience of a deity. Atheists are under no obligation to refute the claims of science. ************************** again please reread my post. if atheists convert after NDEs far and away, that's not only theists experiencing it... and it's not them walking away believing it. athesits are to refute the fact that atheists convert... and as i said before, things that happen solely to them like miralces doesn't happen to others. and if the evidence is in their favor for NDEs, they have a burden to rebut. *********************** >>"the most straightforward explanation is their belief itself distinguishes them.... and their belief is indicative of God.. so using my standard of proof, i rest my case." This is a terrible argument. You argue that people's belief in God indicates his existence. Well what if I believe in unicorns? Does that indicate their existence? What if I believe in the NON-EXISTENCE of god? Does that indicate his non-existence? Using your standard of proof as outlined in the last paragraph of your arguments, I submit that not only does god NOT exist simply because I believe it, but that unicorns, leprechauns, demons, the hydra, mythical monsters of all kinds, etc... all exist simply because I believe they do. **************** you are not comparing apples to applies. if you believe in unicorns, and miracles happened to you, then you'd have an argument that there might be something to unicorns. but, you don't have that. theists do have that stuff, and evidence in their favor. to try to deny it is not the most reasonable position. as a jury person, you could deny it as it's not deductive.... but you're the one who's trying ot rationalize.