Creationism vs. Atheism

” This was a very odd usage, and after this clarification, it is clear to me that PRO is making a differently worded cosmological argument for the existence of a god. I will begin this round with a quick discussion of definitions before I jump right into the argument. Definitions First off, I would like to thank PRO for offering these. I wholeheartedly accept the offered definitions for “creationism,” and “infinite. ” However, I do not accept PRO’s definition for “atheism. ” I’m not sure that it will actually make a difference in this debate, but for purposes of clarity, atheism is not necessarily the claim that no gods exist. As I mentioned in the previous round, atheism is the lack of belief in gods [1][2][3][4][5]. While it is true that some atheists go the extra step of actually asserting that a particular god does not exist, this is a claim above and beyond atheism. While on the topic of definitions, I feel I must address the use of the word “created,” especially since PRO is arguing for the existence of a “Creator. ” Like the discussion above, this may or may not matter to the content of the debate. However, the use of the words “create,” and “creation” are generally used in the context of a creator. However, they need not be. The way PRO is using the word “created” in his discussion regarding his third premise is such that a composite may be created by natural processes. In fact, there is nothing in the definition of the word that necessitates intent [6]. PRO’s Cosmological Argument Now, onto the actual argument. I would like to start by saying that I accept the first and third premises; therefore, I take issue with the second. First of all, PRO has claimed that “no sum of finites can in actuality yield infinity. ” This may be a little petty, but what if you had an infinite number of finites? However, this is not my main objection to this premise. My main objection is when PRO made the claims, “this chain of causes cannot go on ad-infinitum,” and, “the whole of this world is finite…its causes must also be limited in number. ” To put PRO’s claim in the more common language of cosmological arguments, he is claiming that the universe had a beginning. I would like to revisit the point I made in the previous round that we do not know what happened before approximately 10^-43 seconds after the Big Bang [7]. Our modern understanding of physics does not allow us to know anything about this period. Therefore, how can PRO claim to actually know that there is not an infinite chain of causes? While an infinite chain does seem absurd inductively, as PRO is actually making the positive claim that it is impossible, I would like him to provide evidence in support of his claim. PRO’s Uncaused Causer PRO has posited an uncaused creator. I would like PRO to provide evidence for the existence of said creator. Please note that simply describing conditions that seem to require such a creator is not sufficient, as it would be an Argument from Incredulity Fallacy to declare that such a creator MUST be the answer to a particular problem [8]. Final Point PRO claims to have “debunked” an argument of mine. However, this is not the case. The “argument” he claims to have debunked was not an argument at all. I freely admit it was speculation. The point is that we do not know anything about the time that close to the Big Bang, so PRO will have to provide evidence if he is going to speak on the matter. I will not go into more depth, as I have already addressed this point in my rebuttal to PRO’s argument. Wrapping Up PRO has yet to provide any evidence for his claims. He claims that our world [universe] is not infinite, even after I have demonstrated that he could not possibly know this. He also claims that there is some sort of "creator," but so far has only argued that the universe looks like it requires one. He has not actually offered evidence for the "creator. " I look forward to PRO’s comments in the final round. Sources: [1] . http://www.merriam-webster.com... [2] . http://www.oxforddictionaries.com... [3] . http://www.thefreedictionary.com... [4] . http://www.iep.utm.edu... [5] . http://www.beliefnet.com... [6] . http://www.merriam-webster.com... [7] . http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu... [8] . http://rationalwiki.org...