God did not make the world perfect

You strangely took that statement out of context. I applaud you. Recluse the statement and of course it wouldn't make sense. But I'll get to that later. You see, my arguments, which you clearly misread/discarded, are based on only two possible outcomes: either God and her creation are both perfect or God and her creation are both imperfect. Allow me this analogy: There are two watchmakers. One perfect, and another imperfect. You can question the semantics of a perfect watch all you want but the perfect watch is a watch that works 100% of the time and will never fail to tell the correct time at any exact location. The perfect watchmaker creates perfect watches 100% of the time. The imperfect watchmaker creates perfect watches ___% of the time. The imperfect watchmaker is obviously more likely to create imperfect, unstable watches than the perfect watchmaker who will NEVER fail. One day, the perfect watchmaker strangely decides to purposely create an "imperfect" watch. The imperfect watchmaker asks the perfect one why he would do such a thing when clearly he should never fail. The perfect watchmaker contests that it's all part of his "perfect plan". Time passes and for whatever reason he had, the watchmaker concludes with strong conviction that his "imperfect" watch worked PERFECTLY and went according to his perfect plan. This was a simple reiteration of my stance on why there is "imperfection"; it's all part of God's perfect plan. Just like the perfect watchmaker, God created the world imperfect for a perfect purpose. Since God's plan should never fail, then it is logical to conclude that these "imperfections" are working PERFECTLY, hence the illusion of imperfection is removed and therefore everything that God created for her purpose was really perfect to begin with. Think about that. Genesis 6-7: that's not the point, he STILL killed/allowed the killing of innocent men, women, children, and every other living species; and it's evident with every other verse I provided. Does that not sound cruel and immoral to you? "2) This only further proves that God did not make the world perfect, but that by killing these people off for the evil they done, he's in a sense making it perfect (I don't have time to explain it in this debate, we're getting off topic)" - You just agreed with my two contentions. Either God and her creation are both perfect or God and her creation are both imperfect. What was her divine and perfect plan? To create imperfect beings just to simply kill them off? God is omniscient. She knew of everyone's fates since the beginning of time. She knows EVERYTHING. Why bother creating an imperfect world knowing you'll be dissatisfied by it later on? Or better yet, why create evil and suffering when you really don't want it around in the first place? The genocides committed by God forces one to conclude one of my contentions; either God made a mistake and and decided to wipe out her very creation of evil and suffering, or she created these evil people to merely justify her genocides/allowing of genocides as part of her "perfect" plan. Again, perfect beings MUST do perfect things 100% of the time. That includes whatever he/she creates. Imperfect being can only create perfect things with huge amounts of uncertainty. If you still think this world is TRULY imperfect, then your God is imperfect as well. As for 3), I'll say this again in case you missed my entire point a while back: perfect plans require things to act perfectly according to plan. If they do, that essentially fulfils their imperfect design perfectly, hence perfection all along. "By what standard of evil do you deem his actions evil? Yours?" - The secular society's subjective consensus AKA mine as reflected among many others. If I were to choose an extreme end, it would lean towards atheism because unlike christian morality, secular morality makes more sense. "You assume that because God is perfect, he is obligated to create a perfect universe which isn't the case." - You really don't know that. As a matter of fact, you really CAN'T know that. "The fact that God made the universe and sin is present shows that he is able to create but allow imperfection for a greater purpose, doesn't imply that he's not perfect, just that he allows imperfection." - Correction: he allows imperfection for a PERFECT PURPOSE. To simply state that's it for a "greater purpose" is just weaselling your way out. What defines something is it's purpose and features. We may seem imperfect to ourselves because that's all we can know, but here I go again; God created this illusion of imperfection for a perfect purpose, hence her creation is working perfectly! I'm not saying this with faith. I'm using the logic of the two contentions I have made since the beginning of this debate. To unfollow this logic is appallingly absurd, because it further demonstrates the total incoherence of your religion. I should say this now because it might not get through to you: imperfection and perfection is undefinable. Who are we to judge God's creation as perfect or imperfect? She supposedly created us so only she will be able to tell us in the end. "You have not shown that God made the world perfect which is supposed to be your burden of proof." - You may have noticed I was labelling God as a 'she'. That's because I'm using a completely different doctrine of Christianity. http://www.oneplace.com... And that's where the problem begins. You are debating as a christian with a strict set of beliefs. I am debating as a secularist with arguments of sole logic. If you really insist on BOPs, then I suggest you prove to me why your bible/circular reasoning is infallible. I don't necessarily have the BOP. I am already able to defend myself with logical assertions. Yours is based on faith; firm belief in something for which there is no proof. http://www.merriam-webster.com... P.S. "These are accusations by a site which has no clear cut proof that it's how it is." Same goes for your 2000 year old book.