Why do so many say Israel doesn"t need to be a Jewish State

I can understand your feelings about how in the past the Jewish community was subjugated and oppressed. This is why they where given Israel in the first place. The biggest problem that I see is not that their is an Israel, (meaning a Jewish country in general) but where it is. The British Empire had invaded Palestine, but as their time for imperialism ended, they started giving lands that they once conquered back to the people still living their. Palestine was also promised this treatment, and they where very exited to get control over the holly land again. (it is their holly land to, along side the Christians and Jews) But with the end of WW2 the Holocaust survivors (reasonably) didn't want to go back to the places that had aloud them to be taken to the camps in the first place. Much to their delight, they where promised their old promised land back, but the problem was, was that now the Palestinians, and Muslims in general, who where promised the lands for themselves, where forcibly removed to make room for the new country. Meaning that they had been lied to and stolen from by the Brits. Understandably the Muslims didn't take this very well, and although I would have preferred a more peaceful approach to the problem, they saw this as a direct attack on them, which is why several of their countries launched an attack on the new nation on it's first day of being an official country. The Quran dictates that members of the Islamic religion are permitted to defend themselves, but if those who are attacking them surrender, or are no longer a viable threat, they are demanded to not seek revenge or farther the conflict. This was the reasoning behind the following wars, that have lasted to this day. What I'm getting at is that the problem resides mainly on the foolish placement of what was then the new Jewish country. Obviously, we in the states wouldn't take to kindly if we had to give up a state with great significance to us like Massachusetts or something, and that would just be a state, much less the land that is the most important holiest of lands to your culture. They should have been given a land that was not so important to the neighboring population, to where we now have 2 religions fighting over the same Holly land for the same God. (heck if it meant peace, I would have given them Massachusetts) As I said, for me it's not so much that the Jewish people have a country (although I am against mixing church and state, of any religion or country, but that is not important right now) It's more that the country was put in the wrong spot, where tensions couldn't have gotten worse. These are some of the reasons why I think that the country known as Israel as it is, should have never existed (Not blaming them, it was just rely poor planning, that could have been avoided) Now that that's out of the way, we can focuses on what you have said so far in this debate. In the first round you said that you "do see the Palestinians need a separate place to practice their Islam as they want!" Well this is one of the reasons that I gave that little back story at the start of this round, it was to point out that the holly land (epically Jerusalem) is seen as THE place to worship, do to the fact that they both worship the same God, and for Muslims it is just as important to them, because coincidentally, God's presence on earth, the most holly of holly spots for both religions, the place where the temple of Solomon stood, (that the Israeli people and government have expressed interest in rebuilding) and the dome on the rock that is there now, are in the same location, and neither can be moved. We seem to disagree about whether a 1 state or 2 state approach would be best, but I won't touch that one because that would be a totally separate debate, that I don't have time to get into at this time. We do seem to agree that the current Israeli government and the Palestine Liberation Organization , isn't doing very good when it comes to finding peace. What with the only human rights that haven't been completely trampled upon in the West Bank and Gaza strip under Israeli occupation, according to the UN, is Articles 4, 14-16, and 18. (while the PLO not being much better with their every once in a while sending a mortar round into Israel territory) So I wouldn't farther that argument. So in recap. 1st Israel as it is shouldn't have existed, and only did do to poor planning, and broken promises from outside groups. 2nd Both factions have a strong claim to the land, politically, historically, and religiously that can not be ignored. 3rd Most people that I have talked to, or read about, who are Con Israel, don't have a problem with their being a Jewish country, we are just against how the current Israeli Government is ran, and how they abuse the human rights of Palestinians in Israeli occupied territory, by literally starving them out, with their blockade, and ignoring almost all of their fundamental human rights. Making it to where the UN had declared in 2014 that the West bank and Gaza strip where the worst place for human rights in the world. I will have to end my round here. Sorry for the long wait, I broke something of mine that was expensive, and wasn't much in the mood to debate, after that. I can't wait to see what you have for me next. (and maybe I won't have to rush next time)