Smoking Ban

I'll begin by talking about procedural matters. By PRO's "plan" it is obvious that I meant PRO's "proposal". There doesn't need to be a clearly defined proposal if the resolution *itself* is a proposal. PRO supports a "ban on tobacco." That's what I meant by PRO's plan. Like, there is no reason whatsoever to bring this point up, because it does absolutely nothing to advance PRO's case. PRO says the harm principle isn't the "main point" of this debate. I literally have no clue what that even means, or what that's supposed to mean. It's completely incoherent. The harm principle is PRO's standard, so PRO's arguments have to accord to that standard; it is also my standard, as CON, so my arguments also have to accord to the standard. It's that simple. There's nothing beyond that to it. Then, PRO says "the source doesn't really count..." I don't even understand why PRO has to contest my source, because he **agrees** with me on the harm principle. If he doesn't, he should make that very explicitly clear. But the fact that Mill means "other" as an individual that doesn't consent to the harm is not only well known and objectively true, it is obvious. But PRO says my source is difficult to access, and he'll need to "read it in three days." First off, it's only a single page.... this is just awkward. Secondly, if PRO were to merely google the book, he'd find it online. For PRO's benefit, here it is (see page 18: http://bit.ly...). For purpose of "rebuttal" I will both defend my own arguments and respond to PRO's arguments, since both qualify as "rebuttal." On the issue of individual liberty, PRO says it is dangerous for the individuals that smoke. So what? That doesn't matter... by PRO's own (and my) standard, only individuals that do not consent to the harm being done are "others" and the harm should be prevented only to those individuals by the government. Then, PRO brings up a decent point, on children... the response to that: make it illegal to smoke in front of children. There are laws like that in many states of the U.S. But the point I'm trying to make is that NONE of those harms can't be prevented in the CON world; so there's literally no *unique* harm prevented by a smoking ban. Then PRO says there is no chance they'll smoke only in private property. PRO does nothing at all to prove this, so this is a bare assertion. But more importantly, how will PRO's own plan be enforced, if this is the case? PRO offers no answer. But there is actually evidence that a public smoking ban with specific "smoking zones" to smoke actually works. In other words, people reduce, or even altogether stop, smoking in public spaces, or wherever the prohibition applies. (4) On criminal activity, both of PRO's responses fall short. The first response is that the argument has nothing to do with criminal activity or criminal networks. It seems PRO hasn't even **read** the arguments. The "black market" is the "criminal market" and trading in the black market is a form of criminal activity, if that's where the confusion arises. I also talked about killing a lot of people and forming drug cartels... if that's not what criminal activity or networks are, I don't know what else fits the term. The second response -that there will be no tobacco left- is also objectively wrong since tobacco can be produced without a LEGAL market. (Block letters are used for emphasis.) How does PRO think people smoke marijuana in places where it's illegal? The answer: illegal production. Now, let's move on to PRO's arguments. PRO's first argument is about secondhand smoke, but the ban on public smoking entirely solves this harm, and the negligible amount of secondhand smoke that exists has impacts that are FAR outweighed by the negative impacts in the form of violent crime. Regarding PRO's second argument on reduced smoking, I have two responses. One, public smoking bans prevent any harm to "others" and reduce such smoking. Two, smoking in private is fine, and it doesn't matter if it reduces because there is no harm to a non consensual OTHER. Harming oneself is fine as per PRO's own framework of the harm principle. The third argument, about saving money, fails because people have the right to do what *they* want with the money they possess. You can't tell them to learn a new language, because that's up to them... it's up to them whether they want to waste money smoking. The prevention of crime, and liberty, are important, so vote CON. Footnotes, cont'd... (4) Two references are used here. The first reference is a study from the American Economics Review, cited as follows: Evans; et al. 1999. "Do Workplace Smoking Bans Reduce Smoking?". The American Economics Review, volume 89, pp. 728-247. The second reference is from ABC News [see article: http://abcnews.go.com...]. I would urge readers to note that in these contexts, the term "smoking ban" is different from what PRO is proposing, and don't refer to absolute bans.