Affirmative action and racial profiling are both race based legislation...(topic continued)

Thanks to my opponent for his last post, now on with the debate. PRO: <"My opponent is correct in his assertion that people are free to hold whatever political opinions they see fit, this however is not proof that there is no contradiction with supporting/opposing racial profiling or affirmative action, and not both."> My opponent here seems to be conceding his initial position that "one must support either both or neither" and clarifying that what he really means is that such opinions represent a contradiction. My apologies for hammering the dictionary in this debate but I feel that contradiction must also be defined now. "In classical logic, a contradiction consists of a logical incompatibility between two or more propositions." http://en.wikipedia.org... PRO: <"it is not a contradiction to support one issue MORE than the other. The contradiction at hand is supporting one issue OVER the other."> I confess to being a little confused by this as to my mind saying "one over the other" is the same as "one more than the other" but I think my opponent is arguing that it is a contradiction to support 'one AND NOT the other'. PRO: <"If Lionel truly believes that affirmative action would be the best way to obtain his desired job position, and that it is perfectly acceptable for his race to be taken into account in ways that could possibly favor him over those who are more or just as qualified as he is, then Lionel should understand that this is the same mentality used by Steve"> It is an often repeated falsehood that affirmative action favours minorities over those who are better qualified. Affirmative action only applies and race only becomes a consideration when candidates are equally qualified for the same position. <"White men hold 95% to 97% of the high-level corporate jobs. And that's with affirmative action programs in place. Imagine how low figures would be without affirmative action. Of 3000 federal court decisions in discrimination cases between 1990 and 1994, only 100 involved claims of reverse discrimination; only 6 of those claims were found to be valid.>" http://www.now.org... Lionel supports affirmative reaction because he thinks many employees are too racist to give him a chance. Steve supports racial profiling because he thinks many police officers are not racist enough. These are two very different mentalities and while Lionel's opinions contradict Steve's, neither individuals own opinions are in contradiction with themselves. PRO: <"What these two people have in common is that they both jump to conclusions over the intentions of a specific group of people, and even though they may seem obvious, the intentions of these groups CANNOT be proved without a doubt."> While it is true that the facts of their opinions can not be proven, the assumptions they have made are logically consistent with their own experiences. PRO: <"If one was to believe that legal action is necessary in order to provide opportunities for people affected by the impact of race, and that race is a major factor in providing justice, then it would be logically consistent of this person to support affirmative action and racial profiling. Also, if one was to believe that individuals should not be given more/less freedoms than other individuals, and that the norteriety of the ethnic group in which an individual belongs to has no place in legislation, then it would be logically consistent of this person to be against affirmative action and racial profiling."> I agree that supporting neither of these positions is a logically consistent opinion and this is probably the majority opinion on this site. Supporting both of them makes much less sense to me personally and I certainly haven't been able to find anyone professing this opinion on DDO but it may still be logically valid to believe this depending on the individual reasons. At the end of the day though these are very different pieces of legislation and representing them as identical simply because they both have a racial element is ignoring the reasoning behind each. Affirmative action is anti-racist policy. It starts with the assumption that all races ( and men and women ) have equal capabilities and potential to succeed, then makes the additional assumption that minorities ( and women ) are often unfairly discriminated against and seeks to prevent this. Whether or not these assumptions are correct does not affect the logical process or motivation behind affirmative action. Racial police profiling is a racial policy that starts with the assumption that minorities ( especially young black males ) are more likely to commit crimes. The only "opportunities" being given to minorities here are opportunities to be locked up. Whether or not the initial assumption is based on fact does not affect the reasoning or justification for racial profiling. <"Profiling reflects a racial bias in America and tarnishes the years of struggle that the civil rights movement has attempted to eliminate. This narrow justification of singling out certain races for police attention can also lead to other criminals being neglected."> http://www.freeonlineresearchpapers.com... It is possible that all my opponent is trying to point out in this debate is his belief that affirmative action is reverse discrimination and therefore not a good thing but that he has chosen to make this argument in a very round about way. If this is the case then he should perhaps create another debate to discuss this issue. It makes absolute logical sense to support affirmative action and be against racial profiling if a person has the following opinions: 1. Racism exists. 2. Racism is bad. 3. Racism against minorities causes employers to favour white people. 4. White people are just as likely to commit crime as black people. Resolution negated.