According to the Bible (Old & New Testament) Jesus Christ is God

Welcome back everyone. I thank Con for his argument. For the final round I will present rebuttals of Con’s argument and then present whatever I can manage within the character limits. Rebuttals: Firstly, Con appeals directly to his religion to formulate an opinion on what the Bible says about Jesus Christ. May I remind Con that we are discussing what the bible teaches not what the late 19th century teachings of Baha’I says the bible teaches. We are looking at scripture itself, in all of the proper context (i.e. historical, cultural, etc.) Furthermore, using 19th century Persian spirituality, which stemmed from Islam, to understand B.C.E. second temple Judaism context makes little sense. The context of the New Testament begins within the context of second temple Judaism, which preceded Con’s beliefs and their formulations of the N.T. by more than 1900 years. In addition, using his belief instead of the Bible is problematic as Baha’I rejects blatant claims of scripture such as the virgin birth, resurrection of Christ, and so forth. So I remind Con that we are letting the Bible speak for itself, in proper context, and nothing more. This is established in the rules and therefore Con is expected to adhere to it. Furthermore, I have never heard a Christian theologian translate “Son of Man” to “Son of Humanity”. There is no reason to translate it that way as theologians refer to it exactly as it translates into English, “Son of Man”. Regardless, his point, makes no case (see why below). Con on the Humanity of Christ Con goes into the humanity of Jesus, which is all well, but rule #2 makes it clear, “This debate also presupposes the authority of scripture, the existence of God, and the existence and humanity of Christ. The matter should be focused on the issue of Christ's divinity.” Con’s efforts here are wasted as we have established the humanity of Christ in the rules. His argument is going into discussing the role of Jesus in contrast to the Father, but it was made clear that we are not dwelling into doctrines of the Trinity or Hypostatic Union. We are discussing whether or not the Bible claims Jesus is God. Jesus’ prays…to Himself? Con brings up a common issue that most people have to wrestle with when confronting the claims of Jesus’ divinity. Part of this is explained through understanding of Who God is opposed to What God is. But it is further understood by the preexistence of Christ as he was the Son of God before the world. The relationship between the Father and Son are pre-time, creation, etc. John 1:1, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” Jesus Christ is known as the living Word of God and a read through of chapter one of John confirms that “Word” refers to Christ. Not only does this passage say “the Word (Jesus) "was God”, but that Jesus is preexistent to time/creation. The Sons role in his humanity is not only meant as an example, as followers of Christ are to be conformed to Christ, but to further prove his humanity. This issue is cleared up in Philippians 2:5-8, “Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant,being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.” (Emphasis added) In order to be fully human, untainted by sin, Jesus had to “empty himself by taking the form of a servant” and “becoming obedient”. Obedience includes communication with The Father for seeking of wisdom, his will, and guidance. This is showing that Christ was indeed human, but even more so – a picture of what Humans were intended to be, an example of how those who follow Christ should be. Interestingly enough, in making my case I have presented a text, which indicates that God took on the additional role of humanity in the person of Christ. This passage also shows that Christ, in his humanity, assumed a role of a “servant”. Christ’s humanity is necessary for the goal of salvation as Christ is established as a high priest, which would require too much explanation for the purpose of this debate. This passage single handedly dismantles Con’s section “humanity of Jesus”. I would also ask Con, is God limited to the logic he created? He certainly is not limited to the laws of the materialistic realm he created as we see throughout the Old Testament. God created a logical and orderly world, but we must be careful lest we put God in a box subject to his own creation. Jesus was a prophet of God’s full self-disclosure Christ was not an apostle, (http://www.dictionary.com...) as an apostle is “any of the early followers of Jesus who carried the Christian message into the world.” Is Jesus a disciple of Jesus? The role of a prophet is to provide revelation of God and so yes, Jesus was a prophet, but the last in special revelation. Jesus is also the ultimate prophet as his message included the full self-disclosure of God, "Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father?'" John 14:8-9 In fact, in this self-disclosure Jesus tells Phillip, when he asks to see the Father, that seeing him has meant that he seen the Father. Con goes into the argument that “Moses was like God unto Pharaoh”, which is common argument stemming from two problems (a) historical context and (b) semantics of eliminating the analogy in place. In the historical context, Pharaohs were seen as God, and thus Pharaoh could not, would not, be subject to anyone but himself. Moses role not only shows Pharaoh that he is not in control, but within the analogy shows that there is A God who rules over pharaoh. The New Testament says that a husband is like Christ and his bride is like the church. Does that mean that I am Jesus Christ? Or is my wife the Church of Christ? Of course not. It would be silly to say so and this is basically the argument Con is formulating because the Old Testament has Yahweh telling Moses, “You will be like a god unto pharaoh.” Con states, “If all these verses confirm the OT in the sense that Jesus is a Prophet, it would make sense if the OT had said the Messiah would be God as well.” To which I reply with a Messianic Prophecy in Isaiah 9:6, “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” (Emphasis added). In the end of Con’s argument in this section he makes historical error as the crucifix and flogging was considered the most dishonorable form of execution in that time. Not only was it extremely painful, and my passages in the previous round show that the Jews understand himself to be calling himself God, but the Jews continuously made it a point that the Romans execute Jesus, not themselves. Remember Pilate did not want to kill Jesus because it was a religious execution, but was later forced to because of possible political turmoil. Regardless, there must be a rebuttal of the Jew’s understanding of Christ’s words in order for Con’s case to hold any weight. Con also states, “We cannot know God”, which is contrary to scripture. We are observing what the Bible teaches, again, not what Con’s interpretation of the Bible says. Again, "Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father?'" John 14:8-9 My last argument: John 12:37-43: In this passage Jesus has just finished his public ministry, and the writer of John is speaking on those who heard Jesus teaching and did not believe. The writer gives explanation as to why people refused to believe Jesus’ words and teachings by quoting Isaiah 6:10. The chapter of Isaiah 6 focuses on Isaiah’s encounter with the throne of God and of course, God being on that throne. John 12:40 is a direct quotation from Isaiah’s encounter with God in the throne room. The writer of John is speaking of Jesus’ ministry here and verse 41 goes on to say, “Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him.” (Emphasis added). So we have the writer of John saying that while Isaiah encountered God in the throne room he “saw his glory and spoke of him”, but here he is speaking of Jesus. The question then is whom did Isaiah see? Jesus or God? Or is Jesus God? Here is John 12:37-43 in its entirety with verse notations to show verse 40, which is the quote from Isaiah 6, “37 Though he had done so many signs before them, they still did not believe in him, 38 so that the word spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled: “Lord, who has believed what he heard from us, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” 39 Therefore they could not believe. For again Isaiah said, 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.” 41 Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him.” It is important to also note in verse 37 that John establishes that the following verses are attributed to Jesus as he speaks on many people not believing in him despite the “many signs before them.”Conclusion:I believe I have presented enough evidence for my case and have hit the limit. Therefore, I hope the viewers objectively analyze what has been presented for themselves. Bible.com is a great resource if you do not have a bible to reference for yourself. Thank you again,-Logic in Life