The Christian God exists (2)

Hey bigtown, it's good to be debating with you again.I'd like to ask that if you do reference our other debate (http://www.debate.org...) or points brought up in it, you provide a quote. This is for those people who did not read our other debate and for clarification about what specific points we're talking about.I'll try to avoid Bible passages, but no promises.REBUTTAL"Now when you talk about proof, what sort of proof would you like? CCTV pictures, Him coming to shake your hand, or interfering in worldly affairs."Yeah, any of those would be definite proof. I'd probably accept god if any of those things happened. "Now with that said, as we discussed the other day, you therefore have in your mind conceived an idea of what God should be like in your mind, if you were God if you like. All those wonderful attributes and moral goodness etc. You haven't pictured Him, like a spaghetti monster, well I hope not! but you have conceived of what His attributes could be like or in your human mind what they should be like. So far so good?"Well, I guess. I do know most of the attributes of the god you claim to exist and most of his actions through the Bible, and I wouldn't call him "wonderful" or "morally good" at all, but I do have a perception of what the god you support would be like if he actually existed. I have an idea of what a perfect god might be like as well. I have many ideas about many fictional things and people."Ok, there are 3 types of people in this universe, I'll think you'll agree."No, I don't agree that there are only three types of religious philosophies. I believe that there are two beliefs on each end of a spectrum with a whole host of other different people and descriptions of them in the middle of these two. The two on the ends are anti-theists, such as myself, and radical theists. Middle positions include agnostic atheists, agnostic theists, and "silent" theists and atheists. There are many, many middle positions, but the center-most one is agnosticism."Atheists - they deny the existence of it, but conceive it's there. Else, what's to deny? Ref biology professor No 1.You even have a conception of it, but you want to deny it, for human reasons and it get's in the way somewhat. So you fight it. The big mistake in an atheist's outward denial of it, is that it proves the existence of it unfortunately, if you are perceptive."I agree with the first part, we do live our lives as though no god exists. We also have a conception of the god you are proposing. However, this does not prove the existence of a god (I will expound upon this later), and we deny it because we've realized there's no evidence to support it. Technically all atheists are agnostic, but we've decided to live our lives as though there were no god (his existence is a near impossibility in our view)"Agnostics - they conceive it's there, but not sure if they can accept it as fact, a weak but safe middle ground they think, as did I. I"m a good person really, it"ll be alright in the end. That's ok, they would probably make up a large proportion of people on the planet. Hence my reasoning for objective morals the other day. They may discuss the concept, sure. They're undecided in their minds to believe it. They want may be a little proof, a little miracle may be, something for sure."Actually, everyone on the planet is an atheist and agnostic towards the flying spaghetti monster. Agnostics believe that nothing is known or can be known about the nature or existence of the metaphysical world or god.[1] "Theists - they conceive of it and are positively sure it's there, and can therefore prove it by this very same argument. If we are all conceiving of the same thing or entity, it must therefore necessarily exist. Are we ALL delusional. No."This is why theism is the only group that doesn't really make much sense. Many of them claim to know for a fact that god is real, which you won't hear from any other group. Just because you make a claim does not mean you can prove it. I claim, as of now, that I can fly and shoot lasers out of my eyes. Can I prove that? "No, because you don't really believe that" (that is my own refutation, I am not straw manning you). Well, if I really, honestly believe that I have an imaginary friend, can I prove that to anyone? Just because everyone has the same notion of the general characteristics of a fictional character does not mean it exists. Everyone knows most of Harry Potter's character traits, so must he exist? Also, just because a belief is popular doesn't make it right. Most people believed in slavery at one point; are they all delusional?"The big danger in making bold statements, such as I know it doesn't exist, proves that you thought about it already, thereby proving its very existence. It's been discussed throughout the centuries. Were all those people mad? No."No atheist makes the claim that they know god doesn't exist. God is an unfalsefiable hypothesis; you can't prove for sure that he doesn't exist. Also, how does thinking about something prove its existence? I've just thought about flying bananas, Harry Potter, and Odin. Do they all exist now? Not everyone discussing the existence of god was insane. I believe that theists make claims they cannot back up with evidence, not that they're insane. Also, serious, widespread debate about religion has not been happening for centuries. Maybe the last couple of decades, but atheists were killed back in the day (and still are in Islamic countries might I add), which didn't lead to much discussion about religion. "So, the deity necessarily exists. Is it the Christian God? Mmm let's think about that."No it doesn't."We have a book written over the space of may be 1,500 to 2,000 years, detailing the life of a certain race of people, including the very essence of creation and the beginnings. Through God this book was written, unless you think everyone at that time was deluded also in claiming the existence of God. And some very powerful writing it was too. It's an historical story that has way too much provenance to suggest other than it's more than likely very true."Is it not possible that the people who wrote this book made this up, or were trying to spread some weird, cultish beliefs? How good the writing was doesn't have an affect on how real it is. Aesop's Fables were pretty inspiring and powerful. So was the Narnia series. Could you describe such provenance? I disagree that it is a historical story, I'd say it's historical fiction."It has been the most discussed, widely read, researched and criticised book in all of history. Do you think people again would spend so much time doing that, if it wasn't at least credible and therefore more than likely true? I would reason not. Why would it create so much debate otherwise? We don't debate Greek gods and mythology and ask, can that be true? No, so that is my main reason. I can add more in the next round. I just wanted you to think a little."People do these things because they either were brainwashed at birth to believe such fairy tales, want a sense of security and shelter from harsh, cold reality, or don't believe in the book and call it out because so many people believe in its divinity and that belief is negatively impacting society. We don't debate Greek mythology because nobody believes it, so we don't have to refute the claims that Zeus is supreme because there are none. If people believed in Zeus, we'd show them how illogical that belief is, but they already agree with us, so there's no need to debate them. Sources:1. http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...