That reality is predetermined and that free will does not exist

1. "I accept your premise that if we were to find a formula (or a set of formulae) that allow us to determine the future course of particles with a 100% accuracy, then our world is predetermined." As stated in the previous round, we have found such formulae that allow us to determine the future course of particles with 100% accuracy known as the De Broglie-Bohm theory. In case the wikipedia article was difficult to understand, here is a more clear description: http://plato.stanford.edu.... Unless Con can find a flaw in the De Broglie-Bohm theory, Pro automatically wins this debate. 2. "The Bohr theory of quantum mechanics was only truly valid for single electronic species. ie. Atoms with only one electron. (http://en.wikipedia.org...... As a theory, it can be derived as a first-order approximation of the hydrogen atom...) Applying it to multi electron atoms yield, at best, only crude approximations." I agree - I am defending De Broglie-Bohm, not the Bohr theory of quantum mechanics. 3. "Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle says that uncertainty is a fundamental property of quantum systems, and is not a statement about the observational success of current technology." This is blatantly false - Heisenberg's uncertainty principle does not say that uncertainty is a fundamental property of quantum systems. Con is saying that by Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, quantum particles do not have positions or velocities, which is clearly incorrect. Heisenberg's principle (http://en.wikipedia.org...) states measuring position more accurately will cause momentum measurements to be less accurate, and vice versa, by changing the particle's position/momentum. In order for the quantities to be measured, the particle must have a specific, certain position and velocity at the time when the measurement is taken. 4. "Your statement "...since the current state of the universe can be guessed if not measured" just supports my argument. Guessing the state of the universe is not the same as predicting it. A guess is inherently undetermined." Con concedes that the current state of the universe can be guessed. It follows that the quantum particles have a certain specific position and velocity at every point in time, invalidating point 3. Just because the state of the universe can be guessed does not mean it cannot be determined. If every possible guessed state of the universe is taken and plugged into the de Broglie"Bohm equations, then exactly one guess (which we will then know is the current state of the universe) will result in a formula that determines the future course of all particles with 100% accuracy. Although taking every single guess and apply the de Broglie"Bohm theory to it may not be humanly possible, it is theoretical possible. Thus, although the equation predicting the future may never be discovered (the probability of discovering it is infinitesimal), it must exist (since it is possible to discover it), making our world predetermined. 5. "Again, the accuracy of the roll of the die is not a 100%. With high levels of data inputs, we have managed to calculate the outcome of the event with a higher degree of probabilistic certainty. In the example, you say that the wind speed affects the outcome of the die. But we cannot predict the wind speed. Furthermore, this isn't a very good example as the die is a macroscopic system. The degree of error due to randomness is so small that it may not affect 99.9999% of outcomes, thus leading to the feeling of "pseudo determinism" regarding the rolling of a die." Locality is key here. Wind is caused by factors that lie outside of the room that the die is in. Basically, since everything in the universe impacts everything else, it is impossible to make a deterministic prediction without using the state of the universe. In this example, if we knew that the sun was causing the temperature gradient to increasing by 10 degrees per second, we could better predict wind speed. Also, if this is not a good example, Con ought find an example of true randomness in a microscopic system (I cannot find one since I am arguing that no such example exists). 6. "Even if you were to know the positions of each and every particle in the universe, you would not be able to determine the outcome of the dice 100% of the time as the interaction between the particles would be governed by quantum mechanics which then leads to uncertainty." This is incorrect. The de Broglie"Bohm theory of quantum mechanics describes a "guiding equation" that gives the exact velocities and positions of every particle without any uncertainty. Basically, the de Broglie"Bohm thoery take the quantum mechanical wave equation describing problematically the position of each particle and uses it to determine the actual position of the particle. Source: http://plato.stanford.edu.... 7. "Einstein was amongst the few scientist who claimed the probabilistic nature of the universe to be unnatural. But the Uncertainty principle is very well verified by modern experiments. Uncertainty Principle is one of the reasons why we have such difficulty developing a Quantum Computer." Although Einstein is perhaps the most well-known scientist who did not believe that the universe was probabilistic, there are many others who agree with him. As stated earlier, the uncertainty principle relates to measurements and not to any inherent randomness in the universe. It is compatible with the de Broglie"Bohm theory. On a side note, I would be interested to know which experiments (if any) support the existence of true randomness in the universe. 8. "To summarise, a "Great Equation" into which we feed in data about each particle of the universe and which return the exact state of the universe will never be found. At best, our approximations of the universe may increase in accuracy until we are 'almost certain' about the predictions we make. But we will never be completely certain." A two-step method for finding the great equation has already been found. First, make a random guess about the state of the universe. Next, plug the guessed state into the de Broglie"Bohm equations and see if the resulting prediction matches reality. If not, repeat this process until the great equation is found. Although the equation may never be found, it must exist and can theoretically be found though the process described. To summarize, Con has failed to show that the universe contains true randomness that cannot be explained by the de Broglie"Bohm theory of quantum mechanics. Unless he can do so, Pro ought win this debate.