Experts' Tier R1: In a fair fight, Mace Windu would likely defeat Yoda.

Thanks again to Ninja! I will use this speech to review my dropped case, and to rebut Con's case. PRO's CASE Con has Failed to Rebut my case. Please extend all of my dropped arguments. Unfortunately, if Con responds to my Case this round, I will not be able to address his points next round due to the rules about "no new responses" in round 5. So, for the sake of fairness, I would ask Con to either forgo responding to my Case for the debate, or to agree to an exception so that I may respond to anything new he may say. I will construe any rebuttals of my dropped case as permission to provide responses to them in round 5. Let me review the significance my case: 1. Windu has the shatterpoint ability: this ability allows Windu to see the weakenesses of his opponents so that he can exploit them. Yoda does not have this ability. Therefore, Windu is at a distinct advantage because he can sense where Yoda is weakest and can strike there. 2. Windu has the force speed ability; he is so fast that he can land 6 blows to another force user before that person could blink. That is an impressive display of the force, and shows (when combined with Windu's Force Leap ability) that Windu is likely more maneuverable than even Yoda. 3. Windu has the force wave ability, allowing him to send a pulse of force energy radiating out from him. This can eliminate hundreds of opponents at once. 4. Windu has the force grip ability, enabling him to crush an opponents bones or organs. This ability treds closely to the dark side, and so Yoda would likely be unwilling or unable to use it. 5. Windu has impressive telekinetic abilities. As I said earlier: "The fact that Windu had an easier time manipulating something heavier than Yoda did gives us insight into how they might match up in a fight. " In a contest of pure force ability, such as the one that transpired between Yoda and Dooku, Windu would prevail over Yoda because Windu could fling heavier objects faster and with less energy (Windu wouldn't tire out as quickly. ) Yoda would be hard-pressed to keep up. 6. Windu is the ONLY Jedi to have mastered all subsets of Juyo. Therefore, Windu is a master of all subsets of all forms of lightsaber combat. This means that he is a more accomplished duelist than Yoda because Windu is an expert at more types of lightsaber combat than Yoda is. 7. Windu's abilities suit his lightsaber style well, allowing him to deploy such strategies as "Assured Strike" which guarantees a near 100% hit ratio and Swift Flank with helps a duelist outmanuever and opponent. Windu could therefore score more hits on Yoda than Yoda could score on Windu. Windu would also be able to out-flank Yoda during their clash. 8. Windu defeated 82 battle droids with his bare hands. Even on Rugosa when Yoda was rescuing King Katuunko, Yoda had several clones and his lightsaber to help him to victory. Windu, let me repeat, used his BARE HANDS. Even disarmed, Windu with his fist-to-fist combat skills/strengths and with his telekinetic prowess would be more dangerous than Yoda would be disarmed. Windu even repeated this feat on Omphalos. 9. On Boz Pity, Windu outmaneuvered Dooku in battle--that's something Yoda failed to do on Geonosis. Mace Windu got closer to killing Dooku than Yoda ever did. 10. Windu is an accomplished and skilled pilot. If the battle between Yoda and Dooku became aerial, Windu would win. Con has never presented any evidence that suggests Yoda was a good combat pilot. 11. Windu was skilled at using two blades at once. Con never presents evidence showing that Yoda can use two blades well. 12. Windu is an excellent strategizer while dueling. 13. Yoda has reduced mobility due to age. 14. Yoda would tire out quickly in a duel. He can only maintain his energy for a short time period. Remember: all of these points have been DROPPED by CON. Extend my arguments. CON's CASE -- Yoda's Force Powers -- Con says Dooku fled because he could not defeat Yoda. No. Dooku fled because he knew reinforcements would arrive to assist Yoda. Notice, Dooku leaves seconds after Padme and her clones arrive. [1] There is no evidence that Yoda alone would've defeated Dooku. Con DROPS this point entirely: "Windu has a greater range of options" beecause he's more willing to use "powerful, darker force techniques. " Con then says that the superconducting loop that Windu created to deform and weaken Sidious was a lightsaber technique. To this I have two responses: (1) Even if it was solely a lightsaber technique, it's Vaapad, and Yoda is unlikely to be skilled in it; (2) the loop is not just a lightsaber ability. Vaapad, the lightsaber style which Windu employs, is an amalgamation of force abilities and blade skills. Vaapad requires that one channel one's inner darkness and convert it into helpful, controlled usages of the force. [2] Therefore, everything that one does in Vaapad is also a use of the force. It is an innacurate portrayal of the loop to say that it is ONLY an example of blade skills. It is also an example of focus, force prowess, and mastery of one's inner darkness. Con also tries to claim that the loop was a "byproduct. " Let's refer to the actual source: "Windu redirected the lightning back with his lightsaber, melting away the Chancellor's features in a display of the 'superconducting loop' of Vaapad. " [2] Windu actively redirected the energy with Vaapad. This means that Windu was conciously causing this to happen and it was no byproduct. -- Yoda's Lightsaber Abilities -- Con claims I said that Yoda was not a master of all forms. In fact, I never disputed that Yoda was an expert in much of Juyo. What I said was: "Windu was, as I showed earlier, a master of all seven forms including Vaapad. Therefore, Windu actually has a more comprehensive mastery of lightsaber skills than Yoda. " The veracity of this statement is indisputable, insofar as Con concedes that "Yoda is not a master of the Vaapad subset. " Therefore, Con is entirely incorrect when he says that "both Jedi have an equal range of lightsaber combat techniques. " Yoda is a complete master of 6 forms, with an almost complete mastery of Juyo, except for Vaapad. Winu is a complete master of all 7 forms, including Vaapad. Therefore, Windu has superior skills when it comes to lightsaber skills. Con claims that Yoda is capable in forms besides Ataru--I agree (except for Vaapad. ) Yet, Yoda is still likely to default to Ataru because it is his preference. It's psychological. Therefore, Yoda would likely tire out quickly. Notice, Con DROPS that Ataru would quickly tire him out and that it would fail in confined zones. Extend this. Con also says Yoda wouldn't tire out. He cites Yoda's evasion of Order 66 as evidence of this. Con only provides a portion of the whole quote though. Here is the fuller quote of what happened on Kashyyyk: "Yoda then proceeded to escape into the nearby jungle along with Wookiee warriors Tarfful and Chewbacca, after fighting through swarms of clone troopers. Their quick escape was fortunate. " [3] Yoda made a QUICK getaway. Therefore, Yoda wasn't in combat that long, and was able to escape with speed. If he had been forced to fight longer, he would have tired out--my evidence shows this. Con's analysis failed to take into account the full quote. -- Yoda's Past Feats -- Mace Windu was also a general in the Clone Wars, and was highly successful in battle. [2] Therefore, Yoda's generalship is a non-unique point. Con says that Windu would not have survived so many rocks falling on him. Firstly. Windu is no Hailfire droid--as I showed in my dropped case, Windu is an excellent trategist while he duels. Therefore, Windu would not have been tricked into letting the stones fall on him. Secondly, Windu's telekinetic abilities surpass Yoda's, so Windu would likely survive. I never said that Yoda did not fight--Con is miscontruing my argument again. In fact, my point was that Yoda did not do all the fighting; he had help. On Dantooine, Windu defeated 82 battle droids and a tank on his own. Extend my argument here--Con doesn't clash with them so they're essentially DROPPED. Con says that my evidence is insufficient to show that the Clone's provided valuable assistance to Yoda. In fact, the photo shows that Yoda had help. If there are still doubts, I have provided a corroborating source. [4] 200 Jedi survives Order 66 [5]. That is about 2% of the Order. Many of them escaped by luck, like Master Zao. He refused to participate in the Clone Wars--no Clones to kill him. [6] Kenobi himself only sruvived by hiding, not due to battle skills. Therefore, we cannot say that escaping Order 66 really means anything. If Yoda survived, it's likely Windu would have too. -- Mace Windu -- Con makes a serious of fallacious arguments here. Firstly, Con asserts that Anakin is a poor fighter because he failed in his duel with Dooku. Yet, that incident was several years before the encounter with Sidious. Secondly--and more importantly--Con is basing his claim on a false premise. Con is saying that Mace Windu lost to Anakin Skywalker. In fact, that is incorrect. Mace Windu could not turn away from Sidious to confront Anakin because that would have left him exposed. Anakin AMBUSHED and OUTFLANKED Windu. Had Yoda been in that position, Yoda would have died as well. The fact is that Windu came closer to defeating Sidious than Yoda did. Even Con seems to admit this, writing: "Yoda was unable to get as close to Darth Sidious a Mace Windu did. " Con also tries to say that the space they fought in matters. Notice, Yoda's Ataru, which he used on Sidious, is better in open spaces, so Yoda should have done better in the open, but he didn't. SOURCES 1 - . http://www.youtube.com... The Video (Dooku). 10:30 -11:00 2 - . http://starwars.wikia.com... 3 - . http://starwars.wikia.com...(Clone_Wars) #Order_66 4 - . http://www.youtube.com... Video (Ventress). 5:30 - 6:15 5 - . http://starwars.wikia.com... Thanks!