The Arts have Value, in and of themselves

The point about not defining value as monetary value is because it"s obvious" I wouldn"t argue against the fact that people pay money for Art. I clearly wasn"t defining Value in that way to begin with, else we only needed about 100 characters for you to win the debate. That"s why we can discuss what we meant by saying "value" and not by the Webster"s definition of the word. We can argue another day what word can be used instead of "value" to describe what I"m trying to say, but it"s one that doesn"t include Monetary Value. For this debate, we discuss the only non-monetary value of Art. "I argue that society would likewise shrivel and die without art"A society without beauty, inspiration, emotion, color, music, etc. would surely cave to depression, apathy and melancholy." You can"t have beauty, inspiration, emotion, and color with only Science? I"ll accept "music" as being purely an artistic venture, but the rest of those is hogwash. There is still emotion in science. So" strip that, and you are saying that without music we would "surely cave to depression, apathy and melancholy"" so come a little harder next time "To that point, you provided no real evidence or example to prove that art has ANY negative effect on imagination." I guess you didn"t read my quote by Chesterton? You didn"t get what I was saying there?" you do this all the time and it"s quite agitating" YES, I"ve given as much support as is necessary to prove my point. "We have monsters inside us... and there are monsters all around us... we can be told how to slay them, and thus discover nothing... or we can conquer them ourselves... we can make our own path. And while that path is covered in blood, tears and toil... we must carry on or perish". What else do you want? I apologize that I read too much Nietzsche. The truth is, I can"t give you a real like example of when Art stifled someone"s otherwise great discoveries" why?" because they never happened! I can only speak in parables and hope you agree. "Good artists copy, great artists steal." / "Art is theft" - Pablo Picasso. "Art IS inspiration. Art IS imagination." "Also unsupported is your argument that value decreases originality." " I made what argument? "IN FACT many of the things that science has recently made possible were FIRST imagined by artists," " So, their value comes in their assistance to the Sciences? And they have no value in and of themselves? Wasn"t this already addressed? "You must show that Art is an important goal that has value in itself. That simply creating Art is desirable. You can argue that Art is required for its effects on other fields, but you must show that it is, in fact, REQUIRED and not something that can be accomplished in another way." "There are far more humans than there are necessary inventions." " But there are not more humans than there are creations, useful creations. We all have cars and clothes, houses and computers" all of these things people can CREATE instead of Art. I"m not saying we all have the desire to invent the Time Machine, I"m saying we have an ingrained desire to CREATE something. "Science has its dead weight too." I never said that ALL science was useful, but thanks for pointing that out. "Fact: different people have different aspirations. Thus, you cannot say that art bars us from them if you cannot speak to the true full range of aspiration." " No, we don"t... we all are the Will to Power" we"ve discussed this and if you ever want to convince me on these grounds, you"ll have to convince me on Will to Power first. Art is an attempt by the otherwise handicapped to obtain Power. This should be re-directed. "a) has no factual or evidentiary basis and b) can (if true) apply just as much to science!!!" " You"re right.. it does apply to science too! So? Both things hurt us" Art hurts us more. Because not only are you not doing anything, you"re not learning anything either! "Honestly, when you start to talk about falling to temptation, you begin to sound like Billy Graham. I see no place in this argument on either side for crazed Christian ramblings." " If you"re just going to insult me... I"m done... infact... I am" I tire of this" I forfeit... I wanted you to actually win me over in this because I know it"s important to you" but I wasn"t just going to concede, I wanted you to actually prove it to me" I"m done having this particular argument" you can think Art is important and I will think it"s not. I forfeit this Round and Round 5