Spinkos tourney, 2nd round: The historical existence of Jesus

Taictus Taictus was born in 56 AD, and Jesus died in 27 AD at the earliest and 36 AD at the latest. [1][2] Therefore Taictus was not a firsthand source. In addition the annals where not written until 109 AD, 73 to 82 years after Jesus’s supposed crucifixion. [3] By 109 AD Christianity was already well established, with the current pope at the time being St. Alexander I, who was the 6th pope of the Catholic Church. [4] This means that Taictus’s accounts could be influenced by Christian mythology. In fact Taictus uses the Latin title “Christus” in the annals rather than Jesus’s actual name, which means he is referring to a title not a person. If I wanted to prove Buddha was a historical figure, I would look for historical accounts of a “Prince Siddhartha Gautama”, I would not look for historical accounts of a “Buddha”, as “Buddha” is a religious title, not a name. In addition, your quote makes no distinction between actual historical records, and oral traditions of the Christians. The fact that he refers to him as Christus, implies he was referring to the Christians’ oral traditions. The quote itself is less about Jesus’s crucifixion and more to do with the fire of Rome, and Emperor Nero blaming the Christians. You yourself admitted that the annals are inaccurate, therefore citing the annals as proof is a weak argument. Josephus Flavius Josephus was born in 37 AD, after the crucifixion of Jesus. [5] It is very odd that not a single historian from the time of Jesus’s crucifixion, or during the time he was raising people from the dead, could account for Jesus’s existence. It’s kind of hard to imagine that nobody wanted to record these events, as they happened. In addition, the quote is unreliable, as it refers to Jesus as “Jesus”. If Jesus was a historical figure, he would not be named Jesus. Jesus’s name was actually “Yeshu‘a”, or “Joshua” in English, which later became the Greek “Iēsous”. “Iēsous” became “Iesus” when translated to Latin, and eventually it turned into the English “Jesus” after first passing through German translations. [6] Hebrew Scriptures use the name “Yeshu’a” 27 times, and as many as 5 different men held the name “yeshu’a” in the Old Testament. Furthermore after the Babylonian exile the Jewish high priests were often called “Yeshu’a”, and less frequently were called by the elongated name “yehōshu‘a”. [6] Furthermore that quote is from chapter 9 of book XX, not book XVIII. [7] Josephus’s Book XVIII was about “the banishment of Archelus to the departure from Babylon”, and Book XX was about “the interval of 20 years. From Fadus the Procurator, to Florus”. Cuspius Fadus was procurator from 44 AD to 46 AD, and Gessius Florus was procurator from 64 to 66 AD, and both were procurators after the departure from Babylon. [7] It’s more likely that Josephus mentioned the high priests as “yeshu’a”, and Christians altered the text in latter translations. If you read the rest of the paragraph it goes on to say, “Whereupon Albinus complied with what they said, and wrote in anger to Ananus, and threatened that he would bring him to punishment for what he had done; on which king Agrippa took the high priesthood from him, when he had ruled but three months, and made Jesus, the son of Damneus, high priest.” [7] 3 paragraphs later it reads, “And now Jesus, the son of Gamaliel, became the successor of Jesus, the son of Damneus, in the high priesthood, which the king had taken from the other; on which account a sedition arose between the high priests, with regard to one another; for they got together bodies of the boldest sort of the people, and frequently came, from reproaches, to throwing of stones at each other” [7] To me it sounds like “Jesus” is reference to the Jewish high priests. The Talmud The quote is actually, “It is taught: On the eve of Passover they hung Yeshu and the crier went forth for forty days beforehand declaring that ‘[Yeshu] is going to be stoned for practicing witchcraft, for enticing and leading Israel astray. Anyone who knows something to clear him should come forth and exonerate him.’ But no one had anything exonerating for him and they hung him on the eve of Passover. Ulla said: Would one think that we should look for exonerating evidence for him? He was an enticer and G-d said (Deuteronomy 13:9) ‘Show him no pity or compassion, and do not shield him.’ Yeshu was different because he was close to the government." [8] The Talmud states the Yeshu in this quote died during the reign of Alexander Jannaeus. [8] Alexander Jannaeus reigned from 103 to 75 BC. [9] Unlike Jesus of Nazareth, Yeshu had friends in the Government, Yeshu was trialed in Jewish courts rather than Roman courts, and a crier went around for 40 days trying to find someone to speak on Yeshu’s behalf, rather than Pontius Pilate during the trial. [8] The Talmud also mentions a different case of someone being hung on the eve of Passover. “One says to him ‘Tell me again what you said to me in private’ and he tells him. He says ‘How can we forsake our G-d in heaven and worship idolatry?’ If he repents, good. If he says ‘This is our obligation and what we must do’ the witnesses who hear him from outside bring him to the court and stone him. And so they did to Ben Stada in Lud and hung him on the eve of Passover.” [8] Ben Stada was an idol worshiper who practiced witchcraft, and was crucified in a similar manner. Both Ben Stada and Yeshu were “hung” during the reign of Alexander Jannaeus; these passages have nothing to do with Jesus, but rather individuals living a century before Jesus. [8] Lucian Lucian of Samosata was born around 120 AD, and therefore could not have been at the crucifixion of Jesus of Nazareth. [10] Furthermore, the quote you provided does not indicate that Lucian believed Jesus existed and was crucified, but rather that he believes Christians believe Jesus existed and was crucified. The quote you provided was Lucian describing what the Christians believed, and why they are not afraid of death. Again, you provide a quote out of context, in order to claim a historical figure believed in Jesus. 1. http://www.unrv.com... 2. http://www.thenazareneway.com... 3. http://classics.mit.edu... 4. http://www.stuardtclarkesrome.com... 5. http://www.livius.org... 6. http://askdrbrown.org... 7. http://www.ccel.org... 8. http://www.angelfire.com... 9. http://www.wildwinds.com... 10. http://www.sacred-texts.com...