Mormons are Christians

Hi Kasmic, I had some free time and thought I would just for the sake of fun take up this debate, but I hope that I will prove knowledgeable enough on the topic to make it a good debate. My argument will follow this basic outline. Argument #1 l The Same Jesus Christ? Argument #2 l Historicity and Validity of Joesph's Vision Let us begin! Argument #1 l The Same Jesus Christ? My opponent has laid out the following criteria for one to be a Christian: "To be a Christian one must have a faith in Jesus Christ, Believe that he is the Son of God, and believe that it is only through Jesus Christ one can be saved." I agree to this criteria, wherein he lays out the first conditional statement to be that the person has faith in Jesus Christ. My contention in this argument will be that Mormons believe very different things about Jesus Christ, such that it would be tantamount to a different person. To introduce this argument, I will offer an analogy. Suppose I was describing my wife to you, and I went on about how lovely her red hair was. Or how endearing her freckles became once enhanced by the summer sun. That one look from her bright blue eyes could entrance one for hours. Then, upon finishing this description you came to see that she didn't fit any of the descriptions I provided. That she had blonde hair instead of red, no freckles, and green eyes. I believe one would have to conclude that this was a different person. My argument now follows: 1) The prophet Gordon B. Hinkley quite explicitly stated that he believed in a different Christ. "No I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the dispensation of the fullness of times."[1] He went on to further say: "He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.'"[2] This "Jesus Christ" unique to the Mormon faith is said to have appeared to Joesph Smith in 1820. My next part of the argument is to substantiate that this "Jesus Christ" described by the Mormon prophet did not actually appear to Joesph Smith, but was more likely a fabricated story. This would therefore conclude us to believe that this new conception of Jesus Christ is false, and lead one to believe that Mormons are not actually Christians. Argument #2 l Historicity and Validity of Joesph's Vision My next contention is that the various changes to the account of Joesph Smith's first vision leads one to believe that the account was more likely than not fabricated. 1) The dates of the vision often changed as the account evolved. Evidence: A) The account was first dated to be in 1821, after his 16th birthday.[3] B) The account was later changed to to sometimes in 1822, after he was 17.[4] C) The canonized version of the first vision described the event as taking place in the early spring of 1820.[5] Other notable evidence is that the canonized account says that they had already been a member of the Presbyterian Church prior to the first vision, but a separate account says that they joined the church following the death of his brother. [see 4] These changes are part of a pattern in which the contents of the first vision evolved over time, and thus should be held in high suspicion. 2) The content and personages that visited him changed drastically over time.[6] Evidence: A) The first account in 1832 by Joesph Smith describes the following details: Personage: "The Lord" Message Synopsis: ""Thy sins are forgiven thee"; the "world lieth in sin" and has "turned aside from the gospel"; and a brief apocalyptic note" B) The second account in 1835 by Joesph Smith describes the following details: Personages: Two personages, and "many angels" Message Synopsis: "Thy sins are forgiven thee" and Jesus is the "son of God" C) The third account in 1838/1839 noted to a scribe, describes the following details: Personages: Two personages appear, and one says "This is my beloved Son, hear him". Message Synopsis: The personages tell Smith that all churches are corrupt. D) The fourth account listed in the "Times and Seasons" in March 1842, describes the following details: Personages: Two personages appear, and one says "This is my beloved Son, hear him". Message Synopsis: The personages tell Smith that all churches are corrupt. The notable feature about the last two accounts completely differ in the content of what these personages (or personage) convey. The first two accounts are primarily about a personal revival, where Joesph's sins are forgiven. These accounts also are different as the first one only lists "The Lord" as being present, while the second has an addition of another person and many angels. It is not until the late 1830s that the concept that these personages communicated the corruption of all present churches. This seems to be clear evidence of Joesph Smith himself changing the details of this vision to such a degree so as to leave an objective observer with the conclusion that this vision was in fact a fabrication. None of the details are spoken of prior to 1832, and the subsequent accounts of the vision contradict and attempt to supersede his initial account. As the entire narrative of Joesph Smith's discoveries are based on this lie, one can easily come to the conclusion that the entirety of Joesph Smith's revelations are also untrue. And on this basis, the Jesus Christ described by Gordon B. Hinkley is not really the true Jesus Christ. It is on the basis of this argument, that I submit that Mormons are not Christians, but rather have chosen to follow a fabricated idea of Jesus Christ, made up by Joesph Smith. I also reserve the right to post additional arguments in future rounds as Pro did not clarify the structure of the debate. Kind Regards, TrueScotsman [1] http://en.fairmormon.org...'t_believe_in_the_%22traditional%22_Christ [2] (LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, p. 7) [3] http://en.wikisource.org... [4] http://en.wikipedia.org... [5] https://www.lds.org... [6] http://en.wikipedia.org...