God Debate

Thank you very much for that wonderful response Pro. I will start with my rebuttal and then my arguments. Rebuttal: “Christians believe that God gave us free will (this is key). We can choose good, or evil.” As I stated previously; God is all-knowing. If God is omniscient he knows past, present, and future. If God knows what the future will be, it is a fixed subject, therefore you have no free-will. Saying that God gave us free-will is completely contradictory, for if God is to exist, you lack free-will. What you said is impossible, contradictory, a fallacy. God does not make us do evil acts. Yet he does. In the bible God commands Abraham to murder his son to prove that Abraham loves God. I personally believe murdering your son is evil; therefore God does command people to do evil things. “Adam and Eve choose to turn away from God, as did the humans who were killed in the flood (it's also worth noting that the Adam and Eve story is not taken literally by all Christian denominations).” Since God is all-knowing, God knew Adam and Eve would disobey him, and knew the humans in the flood would turn away from him. They did not choose this. Yet God still goes along with the plot for an unknown purpose. Yet effect was all of humanity sinned for eternity, and death to all living things. God knew this would happen, yet still went along with it. “Some Christians believe that it is sin that created cancer, disease, death, etc. (The Fall).” I’m not sure what you mean by “sin.” A sin is breaking a moral principle, not sure how a word can create a disease… please elaborate in your next response. “Others believe that disease, earthquakes, etc. are part of nature.” Revelation 11:13 – “And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.” God does create earthquakes to murder numerous people, God therefore creates earthquakes, making in supernatural, not natural. “Not all Christians actually take the genealogy of Adam literally.” If it wasn’t literal, then it must have been figurative. I don’t see how a family tree can be interpreted as a metaphor, please explain. And just because the Bible starts with Adam, it does not mean Adam was the first human. He may have simply been the first recorded human in the Bible.” "The first man, Adam, became a living person."1 Corinthians 15:45 You are incorrect again, according to your bible Adam was the first human. “However, if God stands outside the laws of our world and is 'perfect', then it makes sense he could be the primary mover that caused the Big Bang.” I already established that God cannot be perfect, and I think the idea of perfection is a fallacy. It also makes very little sense. Let me explain. You established that God stands outside the laws of our world. There is definitely equal amount of chance that neon pink space bunnies riding a chicken wing with Elvis stand outside the laws of our world. Anything that you can think of has a completely equal chance of creating the universe from your stand point. Pro, please explain why you believe that God created the universe rather than neon-pink space bunnies riding a chicken wing through the universe. For they both have exactly the same chance of existing and starting the Big Bang. “It is also worth noting the Big Bang is still only a theory.” You are being deceived by the different ideas of the word theory. Usually we describe something as ‘just a theory’ meaning it is a proposed explanation for things which has not yet been supported by the evidence. However in science the word theory is used to mean an explanation for the facts which is supported by all the evidence. In science a hypothesis is a proposed explanation. When we get good solid evidence for a hypothesis it becomes a scientific theory. So the Big Bang is a scientific theory. It is misleading to describe it as ‘only’ a theory. It will only ever be replaced if someone comes up with a stronger theory that is also supported by all the evidence. Yet your idea that God created the universe completely lacks any type of constructive evidence. Evolution is a scientific theory. Relativity is a scientific theory. Quantum mechanics is a scientific theory. The Earth being round is a scientific theory. No one who understands science doubts that these theories are true because there is just so much evidence in favor of them that it makes no sense to doubt them. The Big Bang Theory is not as strong a theory as the previous three but it is still strongly supported by all the available evidence. It isn’t just a wild idea that will be easily replaced. To summarize ‘just a theory’ and ‘a scientific theory’ mean two completely different things. Don’t confuse one with the other. It is unfortunate that we use the word theory in these two completely different senses. "The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day." "Oxygen is the third most abundant element in our universe. Earth's atmosphere is 21 percent oxygen. "That precise figure is an anthropic constant [i.e., one permitting man's existence, seemingly by design] that makes life on earth possible. If oxygen were 25 percent, fires would erupt spontaneously; if it were 15 percent, human beings would suffocate" (Norman Geisler and Frank Turek, I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist, 2004, p. 98)." Pro’s last argument was the usual one about the Earth being ‘too perfect.’ This universe is estimated to hold more than 100 billion galaxies. In our galaxy alone, there are around 8.8 billion Earth-like habitable planets. So assuming that each galaxy holds at least 8.8 billion habitable planets. If you do the math: 8,800,000,000X 100,000,000,000= 8,800,000,000,000,000,000,000! There are then around 8,800,000,000,000,000,000,000 habitable planets in the universe. This obviously is a very rough estimate; the big idea is there is a LOT of habitable planets. And I hope you agree that there are billions upon billions of galaxies in our universe. And there are billions and billions of planets in each one. Resulting in uncountable billions upon billions upon billions upon billions upon billions of planets. The chances that one, just one of these planets could be suit life is humongous. This one planet out of the entire universe could suit life so we live here, and we call it Earth. The Earth is also not perfect either. Grinding tectonic plates create earthquakes that brutally kill millions of innocent people. Deadly streaks of lightning that kill thousands of innocent people every year. Millions of people die from diseases. Heart disease: 596,577 Cancer: 576,691 Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 142,943 Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,932 Alzheimer's disease: 84,974 Diabetes: 73,831 Influenza and Pneumonia: 53,826 Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 45,591 Saying that the Earth is ‘too perfect’ is a bad argument for you haven’t accounted for the other countless planets in the universe. I believe that this argument has been defeated but if you still want to prove that the Earth is perfect then continue. If not, intelligent design is defeated. Arguments: People seem to believe that God is the most moral being in the universe. Part of this belief of the ordinary man is that God does not have certain kinds of feelings. Although God may have the feeling of anger, God does not have the feelings of lust or envy. Moreover, part of this ordinary concept of God is that God knows more than anyone else. In particular the ordinary man supposes that God knows (at least) all that men know. However these two beliefs, once correctly understood, are logically incompatible. A person who knows lust and envy has at least had the feeling of lust or envy. Since God has all of men's knowledge and more, he must know lust and envy. But to say God has known lust and envy is to say that God has had the feelings of lust and envy. But this is incompatible with God's moral goodness. Hence God does not exist. If God exists, God has not had the feelings of lust or envy therefore not intruding on his moral existence. If God exists, God exists as a being who knows at least everything man knows and more.. If God exists as a being who knows at least everything man knows, God knows lust and envy. If God knows lust and envy, God has had the feelings of lust and envy. Thus impossible to exist. Conclusion: This is the end of my response. I believe I have successfully defeated your arguments, if you think otherwise then say so in rebuttal. I ran out of time for I was gone for the entire weekend, thus the restricted arguments. Nevertheless I intend to continue in the same fashion throughout the entire debate. I wish my opponent the best of luck in this debate and thank the audience for reading my response. I understand your predicament Pro and wish you luck in this debate. Also, good luck on midterms!!! http://en.wikipedia.org... http://news.discovery.com... http://www.cdc.gov... http://en.wikipedia.org... https://www.biblegateway.com...