Affirmative Action

In the sense that it is discrimination between, I would agree that it's discrimination. However, I do not believe it's discrimination against. I gave you the unemployment numbers before. African-Americans are unemployed at a much higher rate than white Americans are. About 13.4% of African-Americans are unemployed, while only about 7.3% of white Americans are unemployed. I really would like to see a legitimate reason from you why the unemployment rates of African-Americans are almost double those of white Americans. Are they just less qualified? In a country in which all men are created equal, there is no reason at all that there should be such disparity. No, it's not obviously a bad thing if a white American doesn't get a job he normally would get. He's not entitled to the job. Yes, some people are more qualified than others, and some people appear more qualified than others. An African-American usually has to face more hardships in their upbringing than the average white American. As I've stated before, schools largely made up of minorities are typically underfunded and don't have as many AP classes, making it harder to have a high GPA to compete with top white students. Yes, they would obviously have more jobs. But you can't say someone lost a job if they didn't have it in the first place. It really doesn't mean much if you would hate the Latino and the African-American just because you would not get hired because of affirmative action. That wouldn't make your hate justified. It also doesn't mean others would hate the Latino and the African-American. It's not unfair to the white. It's taking on a burden to promote affirmative action. Your example is not by my logic at all. It has nothing to do with what I said. You referred to the majority as a whole when you said, "It equally robs majorities of their opportunities." In order for affirmative action to "equally" rob a majority of opportunity, it would have to affect the same portion. It does not affect the same portion and thus does not equally rob the majority of opportunity. Referring to specific members of majority that are affected by affirmative action and referring to the entire majority are not the same thing. You referred to the entire majority. Yes, the minority's account would be his or her upbringing, hardships, etc. You are distorting logic at this point in the argument. No, by that logic, applications would not be decided randomly by the entire public. If you've ever heard of Equal Opportunity Employment, you would know that it means prohibiting contractors from discriminating against employees on the basis of sex, race, religion, or beliefs. It doesn't prohibit contractors from ignoring qualifications as well. The point is that it provides an equal opportunity to all who are qualified. I find it hard to believe that you say something such as "They have equal opportunity with equal qualifications." Do you actually think there is a good reason 6.1% more African-Americans than whites are just not "qualified"? I'm puzzled as to your view on this. There has obviously been discrimination in some form or there would be no reason 6.1% more African Americans are unemployed. That is precisely why we have affirmative action, and it is precisely why we need to continue to employ this strategy. We have come a long way in the 49 years we have had the policy. Poverty rates of blacks have dropped. Many more minorities have been admitted to colleges and have been given jobs. Minorities' wages have risen. But we still have more work to do. There is no good reason 6.1% more African-Americans are unemployed. It's that simple. Women still make only 77 cents for every dollar a man makes. They have not completed their rise in the ranks of society. I don't believe a woman should make exactly the same amount, as that would impose unfair restrictions on industry, but there is no good reason that they should be making 23% less. Simply appealing to an authority and saying racism doesn't disappear over time, doesn't make it true. If you study the history of the United States, you will see how the view of African-American has evolved from believing they were inferior to believing they are equal. Society is far more integrated and accepting than it used to be. There is not much evidence to back up Sowell's claim. Racism can obviously heavily disappear over time through education and acceptance of others. Whether the resentment exists or not is irrelevant. It doesn't mean it will always exist, and it also doesn't take into account the values people learn from working in a diverse environment. No, race and class don't completely determine each other. That's not a very convincing argument. It's just stating the obvious. They still intersect. We can still see the effects of oppression. African-Americans are in poverty to a much higher extent than whites are. Many more African-Americans are unemployed, as I've stated. The point was that the situation would happen very rarely, if ever. It's not an accurate example of the typical affirmative action situation and thus is not a very good attack on it. Being discriminated against because of your race and being discriminated against because of class are not the same thing. I can't believe I'm even dignifying your argument, but I will respond. Please explain to me how two hundred years of slavery is comparable to being discriminated against because of unregulated capitalism. Please explain to me how not even being considered equal is comparable to the plight of Irish immigrants in the United States. It is not similar, and I find the comparison degrading to all African-Americans "Hardships" is an understatement. Not even being protected by the Constitution or being respected as a human are not the same as the hardships southern white farmers and Irish immigrants faced. I am someone who empathizes with those people, but there's little to no parallel between them and blacks. Affirmative action has not showed that it hurts majorities very much. It has showed it benefits minorities greatly while affecting a few of the majority. And I don't see what there is to back up your assertion that it has hurt men. They were given an opportunity, so they obviously weren't robbed of it. You should assume the black one faced more hardships because statistics back it up. Most African-American parents are less educated than most white parents, already placing them at a disadvantage. Most African-American parents are less wealthy than most white parents, putting more of a disadvantage on them. A child with less access to educational products and to a well-educated parent obviously won't do as well as someone who has had those benefits. Many minority schools are underfunded and don't have as many AP classes. This takes an understanding of history and how things have come to be how they are. As I've said, blacks were not treated as humans. They were given so-called equal rights, but were still oppressed. They were segregated. They were discriminated against in schooling and work. This has helped put them in a hole, and we need to help them get back. It is a responsibility that we live up to the creed that created this country: that all men are created equal. While Con takes the side that affirmative action increases resentment, he fails to recognize the value of diversifying an environment. He fails to see how coming into contact with other values and other cultures each day can bring one to accept those cultures. So while he sees the increase in resentment in one aspect, he fails to see the decrease in resentment for another aspect. This contention is invalid because bringing more minorities into the workplace will affect many more people than those who just didn't get a job because of affirmative action. That is clear through the employment rate. Flipping a coin clearly is not as valid as using affirmative action. As I have shown, affirmat