Baptism is the Point at which a believer becomes a Christian,

Round 2 In this round we have the opportunity to ask 3. questions to the others opponent. So preacher Andy Please answer: 1.Would you agree that a saving belief is an obedient belief? 2.At what point does belief save? 3.Please explain Matt 7:21? Good evening. Tonight we will look at what saves, how it saves and when it saves a "believing individual"? So let's get started. In 1Co. 1:18 "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." The Holy Spirit said through the pen of The Apostle Paul that Christ, Death, Burial, and Resurrection, is God Power to Save lost mankind from their sins. Paul would again say, in Ro. 1:16, For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Did you all realize that God cannot save anyone without the message of the cross, which is the Gospel of Christ? Even if you believe, repent of your sins, even confessing Jesus as Lord and are baptized, with out the cross, it is all in vain. For God cannot forgive sins without the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. •The [blue letter bible] says: the glad tidings of salvation through Christ Paul would give a more defined definition of what the Gospel or the message of the cross is in 1 Co. 15:1-5," Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve." In vs. 1 we see the word Gospel and in verses 3-4 Paul explains that the gospel is Christ; death, burial and resurrection. In vs.2 we see they received and stood on it, by this gospel they were saved. Friends that is why Paul would say in 1 Cor. 1: 17 "For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect." I would rather myself preach the death, burial. and resurrection any day. Baptism will always come latter, and there are other Christians that can baptize. But not all can preach or teach the word. This is what Paul is saying in 1Co. 1:17 and he is not saying in this verse baptism is not important. For we will look at what he said concerning baptism in other passages, Now let's look at what he said concerning how many gospels there are. Gal. 1:6-9, "I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed." Some Jewish Christian's were trying to get these churches in the Galatians area, to be circumcised and were saying that it was part of salvation. In their eyes these gentiles Christians could not be saved until they were also Circumcised. Paul gives a blanket statement to anyone who changes the gospel of Christ in the least. If an angel from God or any preacher, Priest, Rabbi, or anyone period, Preachers a different gospel then the one God had taught him, He would be accursed. That would Accursed means as a "Non Believer." [Barnes commenary] says: Let him be accursed. Greek, anayema, (anathema.)…. It is not improperly here rendered "accursed," or "devoted to destruction." Friends in this debate, if "I" or my opponent preaches a different gospel, God looks at us as a non believer. We both believe with all our heart that Jesus was born of a virgin and lived a sinless life and was nailed to a cross, and died there, that a soldier pierced his side after he was dead, and blood gushed out of his side. We believe he was buried in a tomb and laid there for three days and on the third day arose in the morning from the grave, and somewhere after 40 days arose from the grave. if we preach another gospel God will look at us as a non believer, and hell will be our fate. You may be saying that is the gospel, Christ death, Christ Burial, Christ Resurrection, and his ascension into Heaven. I ask you to consider some other evidence that completes Paul's teaching on the Gospel. Turn in your bibles to Rom 10:16, But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" 2 Thess. 1:8-9,"in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power," 1Pet 4:17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? "Obey" according to [Vines Greek dictionary] means; (to harken to a command a) to obey, be obedient to, submit to. Now it is a fact that the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ happened, and Paul and Peter are saying in these passages, that it is something to be obeyed. So how do we obey it? Not only that but if you do not obey it, Hell fire awaits you!!!! If God expects you to obey a fact, then he must make a way for you to obey it. You see if we had a red rose and God said obey it, God would have to make a way to do it, because if indeed we had a red rose, that is only a fact. In the same way, God has to make a way for us to obey the fact of the gospel. Paul teaches us that he did just that. Rom 6:3-7, "Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. In verse 3, in Baptism we are baptized into Christ, and we are baptized into Christ death, Right? In verse 4, In baptism we are buried with Christ into death, and that is our death for we died to self, sin and the world. I must ask a question here, When did Jesus shed his blood according to John 19:32-33? In his death. You see when a believer is baptized into Christ death they get washed in the blood of Chrst. Now for verse 7 teaches us that: he who died has been freed from sin!!!!!. Thus a believer in Christ is forgiven of their sins, at the point of Baptism. Belief only does not save until one obeys the gospel of Christ which is being buried with Christ into his death burial and resurrection. Ed Wharton writes in his book [The Church of Christ Page 51 the last paragraph] "The Mark of the true church's identity is its teachings concerning what a man must obey to be made free from sin." Thus there is more to the gospel of Christ then mentally believing it. It is something to be obeyed, and the way you obey it is, by being baptized. Credits: Ed Wharton the Church of Christ, Blue letter bible, Barnes Commentary and Vines Greek dictionary Thanks Preacher Andy for debating me it is an honor. Tim