Islam is THE main threat to liberty and life and Judeo-Christianity is key to PRESERVING BOTH: Rnd 2

Thanks for taking up the debate Solarman, I always look forward to your arguments. I agree with your statement that Hitler and the Nazis were not following Christ's teachings. However, your argument when you posted this resolve was that Judeo-Christianity is the "key to preserving" liberty and life. It really doesn't matter whether or not Christ would have approved of their actions, these people were clearly influenced by a strong sense of identity that was tied to their faith, as well as being motivated by one of the most celebrated leaders in Christian tradition. I'm not trying to bash Christianity, my point is that it can be used to take away people's liberties, which seems paradoxical in this case. "Who were Hitlers enemies ? England and the USA- both OVERWHELMINGLY CHRISTIAN nations" You forgot the Soviet Union, who rounded out the Big Three. They were an officially secular nation who supported atheist ideology. But this has no more merit than the fact that Germany was also a Christian nation. What made this situation relevant was the fact that the Nazis used Christianity to support their regime. "Ok, first of all list Jewish cases of corruption and murder and brutal conquest in history" I will admit that there are few instances of Jews causing mass havoc against another people. However, I don't know that you can attribute that to Judaism itself. History has always been a case of tyranny of the majority, and the Jews have never comprised a majority anywhere. That is, except for Israel, a nation which has been criticized for its military actions in the past. But Jews account for only 13 million people, a far cry from the 1.61 billion Muslims, or the 2.1 billion Christians in the world. Nevertheless, there have certainly been Jewish terrorists in the past, such as Baruch Goldstein, who opened fire on a crowded mosque at the Cave of Patriarchs Massacre, killing 29 Muslims and injuring 150. Other instances, such as the assassination of British politician Walter Guinness, show that Jewish people, like all people, are not impervious to violence in the name of a cause they believe in, no matter how twisted their logic may be. "When the bier of anyone passeth by thee, whether Jew, Christian or Muslim, rise to thy feet. "Second, I will point out that , although Christ has been used as an excuse to brutally suppress, it is NOT HIS WORDS OR TEACHINGS that validated this behavior- this is NOT TRUE AT ALL for muhammed. Nearly everything he had to say was like "conquer with force the christians and jews, take their women as booty, and subjugate them under Allah" I asked that this argument be made based on facts rather than opinions, loaded language, or generalizations. Interestingly enough, a simple Google search of this quote showed that it is nowhere to be found in the Quran. Here are a few sample quotes by Muhammad: "No person hath drunk a better draught than that of anger which he hath swallowed for God's sake"; ""The ink of the scholar is more sacred than the blood of the martyr"; "The most excellent jihad (struggle) is that for the conquest of self"; "The greatest crimes are to associate another with God, to vex your father and mother, to murder your own species, to commit suicide, and to swear to lie."; "When the bier of anyone passeth by thee, whether Jew, Christian or Muslim, rise to thy feet."; "Kindness is a mark of faith: and whoever hath not kindness hath not faith." Like I said before, the Quran is a vast book full of all kinds of beautiful literature, and yes, some of it is not pleasant. But the same holds true for the Bible, and if you don't believe me then you haven't read it carefully enough. "its founder, Muhammed, who was a terrible EVIL insane megalomaniac" Honestly, you have to provide some sort of evidence for these claims. I have heard countless Islamophobes call Muhammad a thief and a rapist, but I haven't seen any scholarly or peer-reviewed sources to back up these claims, just hearsay. "Marriage is defined as one man and one woman." According to whom? A marriage is a government by government definition which recognizes two people as having entered into a partnership with certain expectations and benefits. Civil unions and domestic partnerships are inventions by people who don't want gays to have the same rights that they have. "there is no disrimination aginst gays" This is simply untrue. According to the FBI, the last year that hate crimes were tallied there were nearly 1,300 hate crimes against homosexuals reported, that's about as many as there were anti-Jewish hate crimes. (http://www.fbi.gov...) Are you going to tell me that there is no discrimination against Jews? I have a feeling that would be just as difficult a point to prove. In a Gallup poll conducted in 2003, 49% of Americans said that homosexuality was not an acceptable lifestyle (http://www.usatoday.com...). I'd like to hear you rationale for saying that anti-gay discrimination doesn't exist. You say that I don't understand your arguments against Islam and refuse to provide any, so I will use your arguments from a previous debate. "First I am going to challenge you on your savior, Muhammed (may he rot in purgatory forever!) Do you worship him? Is he your savior? If so, why do you follow a murderous tyrant who spent his life raping, killing , stealing, torturing, and pretty much any other awful subhuman thing you can think of?" I have already shown that the teachings of Muhammad are teachings of compassion and self-restraint. You, on the other hand, have made no attempt at proving your poiints regarding your slandering of Muhammad. If you really knew anything about Islam, you would know that Muslims do not worship Muhammad or see him as their savior. Muhammad is seen as a prophet and a messenger of God. "they (the terrorists)are the "good Muslims"" This is your second point in your argument against mjvoss. Clearly you do view this as a main argument as to why Islam is a threat. I have already shown why this point is not valid. Islamic terrorism is something which has its roots in the Arab world of the 1970's. Every single Arab country, with the exception of the UAE and Qatar, is less free than it was 30 years ago. Look at Iran, Iraq, Egypt, or Lebanon. There are very few countries in the world that can say that. This has provided a platform for young Arabs who have been jaded by their respective regimes to rebel. Sayyid Qutub and his radical form of fundamentalism has given promises of redemption and salvation to thousands of Arabs who would otherwise have no hope. Your oversimplification of this dire situation is truly disturbing. Finally, in our last round you said this: "the main thrust of Islam right now is Sharia, conquest through force, desire to take over societies and establish a worldwide caliphate." How can you justify this statement when the three largest Muslim countries in the world are run by largely secular governments? You must provide some sort of EVIDENCE or FACTS for a statement such as this. Take a look at the Five Pillars of Islam and show me which one is going to lead to worldwide chaos. The burden of proof is on you to show some sort of impending threat that is provided by the religion of Islam, not by political tension in the Arab world. And once again, you must prove how Judeo-Christianity is the only way to save us from this supposed threat, rather than political stability.