Miley Cyrus

Well, this debate has been interesting. Your arguments here were much better than I expected, and you kept going. So many opponents simply forfeit that I'm strangely appreciative of an entire debate. I will refute CON's R3 and then tell you why I win. If my tone becomes abusive, please understand that it's nothing personal, slammin. "I am glad that you have learned a lot about her through this debate, but still- if you really had no idea what was going on with her, etc. then maybe you aren't really fit to say that she is a good person or not a bad person." -1)I was being facetious:), 2)That should be all the better for you, right? It is our arguments that matter, for that is what will sway voters, not either of our credentials, or lack thereof. We're not exactly debating rocket science, to use the old clichï¿½. "Okay. Let me clarify..." -You missed my point here. The world isn't divided into good and bad, black and white - it isn't that simple. Just because Miley isn't *bad* doesn't make her *good.* By the same token, just because I am not "against" Miley in this debate does not mean that I am necessarily "for" Miley. As I said, my argument is contradictory, not contrary. Now, you didn't provide a clear resolution in your opening argument, which only mentioned the "role-model" part of your case. So I provided the resolution, which you did not dispute; therefore anything beyond this, such as her not being a good person, etc, is irrelevant. "True, a hack er may have gotten these pics, but what good and morally valued teen girl would take those pictures and blackmail them to her ex Nick Jonas?!" -It's her phone and her body, and what she does with either of them in private is her business. If her privacy hadn't been invaded, which is a crime while taking pictures of yourself is not, this would not be a point in your argument. Differently, you never gave any standard of morality at all which I am supposed to see her breaking. I am a consequentialist, so for me Miley, despite her corporate puppet status, is still pretty far on the "OK" side of the moral fence. Also: "blackmail" isn't a letter in a dark envelope that you drop in the mailbox;) "New pictures have been [u]ncovered of her taking pictures of herself naked in the bathroom mirror. They found them on her phone." -Who is "they" and why are "they" on her phone anyway? It seems if the scandal-crazed media and hackers would leave the girl alone, there wouldn't be all this "controversy." Sounds like another invasion of privacy. "My source is the radio [Q100] while yours is wikipedia?! Wikipedia is not a valid source. Anybody can get on and change any information." -I'll grant you that wikipedia isn't the greatest source around. However, compared to your previous unsourced quotes and "radio Q100," whatever that may be, I daresay that wiki might as well have the seal of God. Besides, if the information was incorrect, you should have countered with an argument. "Still, again I ask what good and morally well person would do this? It is just plain unnecessary and inappropriate. Look at what this teaches the thousands/ millions of viewers." -You tell me, slammin. I'm still trying to figure out what standard you are judging by. And what does it teach the viewers? You haven't told me that, either. "Your personal opinion isn't really a valid source either…" -Thus my qualification "Personally..." "Uhmm…how does this disprove my point? She showed the world her newfound hate for poor Nick." -I'm simply saying that she was expressing a fairly common emotion - when people break up they often have a strong dislike for one another. It has nothing to do with being a good role-model or a good person. Also, you betray bias by saying "poor Nick." From what I understand, this Nick kid is fairly well-off, both financially and romantically. "I can't get into the mind of Miley Cyrus, but her actions speak to me loud and clear. I am not sayig that she is a horrible person who will never get any better. I am just against her current way of life and actions." -You said she did these things because she felt threatened. That's a motive, but not one that you have valid access to. "Sorry for saying it backwards." -Don't be sorry, be careful:) You didn't have to reiterate to me the logic I showed you. "So? Just beca use you are a bigger celebrity doesn't make you any better or a better person more fit to be a fine exapmple of a role model does it?" -Strawman. I never said it did - my point is that the bigger a celebrity a person is, they, for better or worse, have more sycophants, paparazzi, and evidently phone-hackers around them, just waiting on the latest bubblegum crap "story" or "scandal" to break. There are magazines to sell, tabloids included, in which "truth" isn't relevant. "Still Wikipedia is not a valid source but...just because you have done a few charitable or nice things in your life doesn't automatically make you a great person. I am speaking of her current status. With all of her money, she SHOULD be donating like this regulalry. The good things do not make up for all the numerous negative actions she has commited." -Again, if the *referenced* (see that "39" in brackets?) source is incorrect, you should tell us. True, this does not automatically make her a good person, but again, I never said it did. However, it's more than any of your examples of "good" role-models have done. "My opponent has offered just this previous point as his only reason as to why she is not a bad person." -That wasn't why I quoted that; I told you it was simply to humour you, as it is a part of the good person/bad person part of your argument, which is entirely irrelevant to the debate. At the most, all of these teens are mediocre people - no more, no less. slammin, you might have had a stronger case if you had made the clear resolution "Miley Cyrus is not a good role-model." But, you allowed me to provide "Miley Cyrus is a bad role-model," and you didn't dispute this. There is a difference, integral to the debate. Finally, CON never provided the solid definitions necessary to complete her argument, as well as hold it together. I enjoyed it, slammin. See you around the site. Britt