Debate should be considered a recreational activity, rather than educational

1. I will say that my opponent makes a great point in this fact. However the plain and simple fact that is ignored, is that the ignorance factor is still in effect. If you will notice, in every single one of the debates my opponent has posted, the opponent attacked, and defended regaurdless. Let's compare this to a teacher trying to tell a student that copying his/her homework is bad. The student may agree with the fact that what they did was bad, but they're going to stand by what they did and defend themself with some lame excuse such as "I did it because YOU did not explain it properly enough", or " I didn't know how to do the homework, thus I am justified in the copying". If the individual doesn't believe that what they did was wrong, and will continue to do it, then what are they really learning? Same applies to a debate. If both individuals believe that that they are right, no matter what the scenario, and will re-frain from using the arguments that have been used against them as burden of proof, then it is simply common sense to say that they have learned essentially nothing. Now granted there are a few individuals in a debate, who will submit that their oppoent is right, and simply give up. However, if you looked at how many of those there actually are that would do this on that site, you would find very few in not none. And the ones who do such things usually don't feel like actually typing up an argument. We need to look at debate as the whole. Virtually everyone, feels like they need to maintain there reputation as smart and cunning, and allowing an opponent a win by submitting themselves to being un-knowledgable, is highly unlikely. As far as study before the debate. This should not even be considered, seeing as we are talking about the debate itself. What one already knows when going into a debate, is not learning. Learning is actually achieving knowledge through the process. As to your weightlifting comparison. Are you referring to the muscles gained while watching a weight competition, or muscle gained from the weight lifting in general? Because in this resolution we are strictly talking about the tournament in itself. So in that sense, If we are comparing how much muscles the weightlifter acheives during his actual competition, then yes, it would be quite the same, and previous muscles gained, should be deemed meaningless, seeing as they were not gained in the competition. 2. In response to my sudent/teacher scenario, my opponent replied that it didn't matter what the purpose of the questioning activity was. However, that makes no sense in referal to debate. Debate means you are clashing your opinions with an opponent, not simply asking questions, and having them answered. That situation would be seen as an educational one, because the student is learning beneficiary things, rather than arguing and opposing everything the teacher brings up, which would easily be considered debate. In response to my opponents answer to my questions. Now these questions are going to be the ones that have most effect, following there answers. Seeing as I will not be able to respond after, I would like the audience to examine his answers in the next round carefully. If my opponet provides something of essence that he has learned, he is submitting to the fact that there may be issues in which he himself would say he is un-knowledgable on. This benefits the fact that he has put in the time and energy into showing that he cares enough about the debate, which can be narrowed down recreational. Why else would someone use their spare time to provide to study, unless they had to or they were generally intersted in doing so. Obviously my opponent didn't HAVE to respond to my argument, so seeing as he did respond to them, it shows that he sees this as an interesting oppertunity AKA recreational. Q: When you accepted this debate, did you intend to learn anything? A: Yes. For example, I looked up information on the variety, extent, and value of high school and college debate programs. I didn't know that stuff. I expect to learn something from every debate. NEW Q: Okay, then if so, what would you say you have learned from this debate so far? Q: Do you feel there is anything on this topic, that you don't already know? A: Yes, certainly. For example, I still have not found the numbers of individual participants in academic debate programs. NEW Q: Which means that you are generally interested in spending your time to find them, correct? Q: Do you feel debate is fun? If so, what about debate do you find so fun? A:I am learning about the subject, improving my ability to reason and explain things, and teaching young whippersnappers things they need to know in order to take over society. NEW Q: So that means, you would agree that upon debating people, you become interested due to these principles? Q: Would you yourself, enter into a debate that you felt you only were half read-up on? A: Yes, certainly. I expect to read up on the other half. NEW Q: Ah! So you would dedicate your time to looking up that other half then? Q:"Is it true, that no matter what argument I bring up, you will try to your best ability make an counter-argument?" A: No. Not ever. I agreed with you that debate is fun, but am arguing that it being fun doesn't imply that it should not be considered educational. In general, denying the obvious is a poor debate practice, because it undermines the credibility of your other arguments. LAST Q: OH, so then based on what I have seen so far, and based on EVERY other debate you have been in, and with the arguments you have provided your opponents, you would say that this is fact? Because from what I've seen, is that you've done just that. You've have done your very best to argue each and every single little point to the best of your ability, not only in this debate, but with every other debate you have been in (at least on this site). Therefore, I find it justified, to say that this claim is FALSE. Because if you are not willing to submit to a single argument, and say that you are, then that is what we call ignorance. And I am under the strong impression that every individual, including myself, obtains ignorance. And again, being ignorant is not a bad, thing, because all it does is show that you care enough about your beliefs to stand by them no matter what, although at least being opened minded enough about them. It is easy to say that you would submit defeat to an argument, if it was logical enough to be dis-proven, but you have to look at the truth. Is this really the case? Would you really, just give up and say, "Your right..."? I can tell you the answer to that is no. We as humans will resort to a defence mechanism, and will find any other door to getting through that, which is possible, and eventually come up with an argument supporting their side. I hope these questions have showed the audience and my opponent this point is true. Because, as sure as I am standing here, I can guarantee every one that we shall hear and expect an argument from my opponent. 3. A1. I can respond to this whole argument by simply asking: What seperates fun from learning? The simply fact that fun is involved in the activity, show that the activity is recreational. A2. But the plain and simple fact ignored here, is that regaurdless of the situation, the individual is having fun. How can this be looked at in any other way than recreational? A3. My opponent brings up a very good point here. This being fact, I would like to ask the audience to ignore any facts brought up from either, regaurding education being recreational as well. My reason for bringing it up was simply to show that there is other possibilities from this debate. Seeing as I am just about out of remaining characters, I would like to thank my opponent for providing such logical refutations. I have enjoyed this debate very much.