Abortion is immoral and the destruction of life.

A1. A cell is not killed. It dies. There is a difference. It is also not a human being. An abortion is killing a fetus. It is not naturally occurring. This argument is for a better way of telling when an embryo becomes a human being. That is all. How is it not relevant when killing a human being is immoral? We use the heart and the heart alone to determine when a human being is dead so it should be the factor when considering when life starts as well. A2. I was saying that there are things that are more immoral than murder in regards to the victim. Abortion being one of them in my opinion. It is the difference between living and dying or being completely removed from existence like in "It's A Wonderful Life." A3. The point is that if it would be immoral for a doctor to harm the fetus, it should also be immoral for the mother to harm the fetus. A4. If you have two sons and they are hanging off of a cliff and you had to drop one of them to save the other one from certain death, it would not be immoral. If you dropped them both, it would be immoral. Normally dropping a child off a cliff is immoral, but when you have no other option between doing something immoral and doing something even more immoral, it is still moral to do the act that was previously immoral. If you have a moral alternative and you don't take it, then by default, you are being immoral. If someone put a gun to your head and said, "Have an abortion or I will shoot you." Having an abortion would then be moral. A5. I thought it was implied that we were talking about human life since that is what this debate is centered around. Self-defense is completely different and the fact you would link abortion to self-defense on the behalf of the mother is what's comical. C1. It is also my argument that it is a parents duty to protect an unborn child as well as a born child. I did counter your point, but you misunderstood it. You showed no difference between the qualifying factors you provided to show that a fetus was not a person, but you fail to see how an adult lacking the same qualifications cannot be murdered. C2. The point stands that just because another being causes you discomfort, you cannot kill them. Especially when the pain was brought on by the person wanting to do the killing. C3. All wars are immoral or a self-defense reaction to something immoral. Remember, we are talking about humans here. Stop derailing the argument with bacteria and farm animals. The entire reason we have governments and laws is to protect the right to life. Why would we protect something if we had no right to life? I guess if you believe that nothing has a right to live, killing could never be considered immoral. C4. If it is better than the alternative, why do they feel so remorseful? I think you know it is because they feel like they have done something wrong and you were very close to admitting it. C5. Since we are talking about abortions being moral or immoral, non-consensual sex adds another layer to the argument and could change the outcome entirely based on less than 1% of all abortions performed. If I can prove that abortions are immoral, I would like to take you up on this debate as I am sure we disagree, but if I can't prove a typical abortion is immoral, this is a waste of time. That is why I conceded the point to focus on the argument presented. http://www.nytimes.com... C6 This has nothing to do with the argument. Irrelevant. C7 This argument is nonsense. I read it and understood it entirely. I would say that since fetuses are male and female, you should respect the rights of both of them by not killing them. Since men have forced women to get abortions in the past, I would view their part in it as immoral also. Would you agree that if a woman was forced to have an abortion, it would be immoral? C8 That is what the morning after pill is for. I know the effective rate of various prophylactics. So do the people using them and if you didn't want a baby, would take a 1% chance? If the condom breaks and you say, "To hell with it!" that is your fault. This in no way has an effect on the morality of destroying a human life. C9 That is what I mean by "viable fetus" or "fetus that will not come to term." C10 I have shown that abortion is never a necessity. It causes more harm to the unborn child than all others involved. We don't kill people because they are poor. It would be immoral if we did so poor or not. C12 All the things done in Nazi Germany were lawful. That doesn't quite make them moral does it? Were all the abortions before Roe vs Wade immoral because they were illegal? Did they all of a sudden become moral just because the abortion was lawful?