The words "under God" should not be taken out of the Pledge.

REBUTTAL 2/3 "I understand the importance of God to Christians, but that wasn't my point. This isn't a matter of faith in God, its a matter of how much that faith will play into our government, if at all." I agree. You doubt that the government needs to trust a God in anything, as a typical atheist would do. This is why your argument is not sound. We are talking about the Pledge, and three fourths of Americans believe in the God you are trying to take out of the picture. "Well here we have a definite contradiction in your argument. In your first paragraph you talk of the importance that God has on Christians, not in general. You obviously assumed, as did I, that God means the Christian one. And even if you did mean for this to apply to all religions (though it could only apply to monotheistic ones as it is "under capital G-o-d, and it can't be Buddhism because Buddhism doesn't require a belief in a god) it still wouldn't be right, as it assumes some religion or belief in a god. Which, by the way, is unconstitutional, as it restricts the freedom to religion, and the freedom from." OK, well obviously no Bhuddists have gotten mad at the government or anything of sort, but there actually is a God involved in Buddhism even if that is something we are going to choose to argue about. [1] Besides that, all the other religions include a G(g)od and each one, according to their religion, is "true" therefore it's a capitol G. I fail to see how this is unconstitutional. [2] "Okay, I could have worded that better, I apologize. I mean to say that the Constitution was neat, but these guys, not the Constitution, aren't infallible prophets for writing it. The Constitution doesn't say anything about being based on Christianity, so it doesn't exactly help your case. In fact, I use both the Constitution and quotes from the first presidents in my later arguments, though the latter isn't that important. Because their dead. Lastly, it does apply. The pledge is for America, and America's law system is based on the Constitution, so the pledge must be, at the very least, not unconstitutional." You say the Constitution is written by old dudes who we couldn't possibly agree with now days, but then you say the Pledge needs to be based off it because it represents America...! Um, clarification needed AGAIN here. "Oh my god we had a debate about that and I think I showed you wrong." Great to know, Mr. Cocky-pants. "Up until very recently gay people were prosecuted and that changed when the majority of the public realized being homophobic was wrong. The majority of Americans decided to change laws to protect those minorities." Homophobia is natural, just like homosexuality supposedly is! How can you condone those who don't agree with it and are labeled homophobic, and then say being gay is not a choice? "Yeah I don't doubt that these people were Christians and they believed in the Christian god. My point in bringing up these quotes was too show that the opinion of these people were irrelevant." This whole debate you've been saying that the writers of the Constitution and Pledge are completely irrelevant, even though they are--after all--the people who came up with the words we are still following today...they were presidents, alright? They had to do everything they could to keep citizens (of all religion) happy. "It doesn't have to do with the Pledge, I give you, but I think they're in the same ball park. I mean if we got God off the pledge, I think getting him off money is the next step. But if you only want to talk about one and only one instance of which religion is being forced onto people by the government, then I will oblige." Yeah I was planning on keeping this debate on 1 subject. We are arguing about the Pledge, not money. "Then it's also a choice to say them, now isn't it? If kids want to say God they can but let's not pretend they're not expected to. Especially little kids. They're given a script and told to repeat it." Take science textbooks. Most show the evolutionary process and then call it utter fact, without any exceptions. Aren't little kids reading that too? And it wouldn't work if the Christian kids all said 'under God' while the non-theistic kids wait awkwardly. That kind of thing would only work the other way around, if God was still officially part of the pledge. "You implied it was a Christian country by not specifying it wasn't, and even in this round by talking about specifically the Christian religion. When you say capital G-o-d in the Western world people assume Christianity, especially since the only other plausible competitor, Islam, usually calls their god Allah. Even Muslims in English speaking countries." First I never implied that America was a Christian country. You give no example of where I said it and I still know that the definition of God is "the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being" and you can't argue that this applies to Islam and other monotheistic religions. [3] "You wanna talk to me about getting off topic, when you casually throw in the completely innocent and not loaded question "Do you think the president believes in God? I don't." Please, at least my digressions, which some I don't even believe to be digressions, were in the same ball park." You're the one who got us into debating about whether the Founding Fathers were believers in God. I concede that I was a bit harsh, if that's the word, when saying you were off topic. In 2004 the Court ruled unanimously to keep 'under God' in the Pledge of Allegiance. [4] So it's not like you atheists haven't tried, it's just that the majority believes America is really in the trust of God (or a G[g]od) and that letting go of that wouldn't be right. SOURCES [1] http://en.wikipedia.org... [2] http://www.everystudent.com... [3] http://www.google.com... [4] http://www.smithsonianmag.com...