The Universe has always existed

‘The things that are perish into the things out of which they come to be, according to necessity, for they pay penalty and retribution to each other for their injustice in accordance with the ordering of time” Anaximander of Miletus 610 BCE The Fool: That is it is only forms of existence that get destroyed only to become other forms, which change into others, but never into absolute non-existence. What IS IS, and what IS not cannot be known. For it is not there to know about and so not there to claim. What IS IS the universe. It could never be what is not, because it is. Non-existence simply put doesn’t exist. So any claim that there is such a thing is nonsense, because it is precisely what is not. So it never makes sense to say there was non-existence. (for their literally no sense in which it exist.) That is 100% certain. Please judge fairly, look at what he actually saying: Sophist: “Essentially what you are saying is that, what we do not know does not exist, yet the universe existed before we as a species existed, and it will continue afterwards.’ Is this really what I am saying? Come on now. I said cleary non-existence as a thing in itself is nonsense. It is not the same as not recognising something in the past. There is recognition and existence. Even the idea of non-existence is impossible because the idea would have to not exist. This is clearly demonstrated in the Zilch! Section above. Please judge fairly, look at what he is actually saying: Sophist: “I suppose in a sense you are correct. We really don’t know.” Please note he is saying: “In a sense its true and we don’t know” at the very same time. (Contradiction) Remember there is blackness and non-existence they are not the same. Thus the telescope example is justly rubbish. This has already been argued. Secondly, according to science the empirical universe is expanding at the speed of light, so even to look for the end, makes absolutely no sense because you could never catch up to it. Please judge fairly, look at what he is actually saying: Sophist: ‘We are also able to observe what we believe to be the "edges" of the universe, some 15 or so billion light years away.’ The knowledge that something does not come from nothing could never be asserted naturally or empirically. For it is often the case that we see things appear out of now where, that is what random is. And in science we perceive that all the time, especially in quantum mechanics. Please judge fairly, look at what he is actually saying: Sophist:“The knowledge that something cannot come from nothing only comes from observing the way things naturally happen within our universe or our existence.” That something cannot come from something is a purely logical explanation called “the principle of sufficient reason” proposed by the Anaximander of Miletus 610 BCE. http://en.wikipedia.org... Now when I say the universe is always changing, because of energy. It has nothing to with the semantics; in types of energy we all know what that means. It’s not that complicated. Please judge fairly, look at what he is actually saying. “Correction, the universe always has NO net energy. “ = “philosophers should stay away from science because generally they really don’t have a clue as to what they are talking about.” My opponent doesn’t know my background at all; net energy has nothing to do there being energy. It’s just law of conservation again. My opponent is disregarding and distorting what I have written. Secondly, this is posted in the philosophy section not science. It is also a false dichotomy anyways. "Dark Night Sky and the Fool" The Sophist: If the universe has always existed, and will always exist, then one CAN draw the conclusion that it must be infinite in size. The Fool: Key point here is CAN. And that is the death of an argument.(Foolery 101) For we can draw any conclusion that is must be some way. To have a sound argument it must follow by necessity not possibility. Thus it can’t be a logical paradox. It’s a Para-Not. So it’s gets an F for… Fool! ;) Let’s look at the scraps for some something worthy of investigation. This was a very unsatisfying victory. Who's that Fool in the garbage bin? Let’s grant that the argument was sound. Sophist: If the universe has always existed, and there is an infinite number of stars, and infinite size, The Fool: Even still doesn’t follow that there would be and would be and in finite number of stars, when again law of conservation says nothing can be created or destroyed. Yes. Even lion and Tigers and Sophist: Even lions and Tigers and Bears? The Fool: oh my. ;) Sophist: awww ;( what about infinite size? The Fool: it very well might be, if it’s true that universe is expanding at the speed light then we could never know how far because we can’t catch up the speed of light if it is the fastest speed possible. It’s a pretty poor claim of the big bang theory because it doesn’t seem to be falsifiable. I think it is only theoretical, so much for expansion and infinite size. But it’s the best explanation we have. Why? Because upon new information it can be changed, and thus its can evolving, is not a final explanation and nor is it meant to be one. We may have a better theory then quantum mechanics tomorrow. Knowledge comes in time, work and effort so we have to be patient, its others that distort its claims of reality aka The Sophists. An untimely Fool Well nobody lets to find out that Santa clause doesn’t not exist, we cling to that a little while longer even when we know he doesn’t exist. If you are not ready to grow up, you might want to skip this part. For fresh knowledge is not always happy knowledge. It’s interesting to me to see what people say that the universe has an age so it must have been born; I never get the feeling of born-ness when I gaze as the sky from a hill top. For one most people don’t grasp as clear as they think is time. What is time? Young Fool: what is time master? The True: time is what happens. Young Fool: Everything happens, that doesn’t help. The True: You just need to ask the right question Young Fool. How does happens happen? Young Fool: I don’t know, all I see is happenings. The True: How do you tell them apart? Young Fool: in relation to each other. The True: and you have your answer. Young Fool: hmmm. Oh The True: think! About the differences! Young Fool: oh okay, time is the difference of happenings? The True: exactly Young Fool: time is the difference of change between something and another. Hmmm. So our time must be the change between movement of the earth and its axis, while a year is relative to the location of the sun and earth. Yeah. That makes sense, just as an hour is synonymous with sand moving through an hour grass. Or water from a bucket. That is we measure time by change but time does not exist in itself! Awww But what about Christmas and birthdays and such?!! The Tru: The calendar is just convention that been forgotten. We all have to grow up sometime Fool! Aka time does not exist in the universe. You heard it here first!. And that is straight from the hill! Therefore it follows by NECESSITY the Universe is eternal! Review of key points 1. Matter or energy is never created or destroyed. (Law of conservation, and by logic) 2. Energy is, unstabilization (definition of energy) 3. The universe is always changing. (unstabiliztion is change) 4. New things are forming and unforming. (unstabilized change of relations of matter and mind) C Therefore the universe is eternal and creation is not necessary. 1. What universe what IS and so it could never be what IS NOT because it would be a contradiction to is-ness. 2. The universe is the whole that is all. (via explaintion of elementary fallacy) 3. Time is not a part of the universe. (via untimely fool) Each of these indiviually proves the universe is eternal. It’s not cool, to be ruled, by stool, vote FOOL!