Mary Mother of Jesus Scarlet or Saint

My opponent started off again without sources to help his claim. He gives us Wikipedia to chew on. We will get back to that one. I stand by my previous statement: "In all rational cases my opponent would be right here but this is not the case. In this case we are given means of miraculous conception. Therefore by this means all prior biological means are mute. " I stand by this not because I am a creationist but because no one or thing can disprove this claim. It is simply that, 'a claim. ' It is to far in the past to make biological evidence from it. Therefore we both must have a 'tie' in this point. He does not believe and I do. Dead point. "As a miraculous conception is not only not provable it can not be disprove this topic must be thrown out on the basis of lack of evidence on both parties. I am sure my rival will agree with my reasoning here. As my statement was agree my CON I will state it can not be thrown from the discussion. " Yes I do agree! "She stated to Joseph that an angel came and god made her with child. As this isn't possible in the natural world it is a lie. Zeus and Poseidon have taken virgins many times. Those stories are also false. ' Again my opponent stays with semantics. He can not prove it was not possible. This goes to another debate as in, 'does God exist or not. ' If God does exist then this is possible, if He does not then is is not. My opponent must provide proof that God does not exist. "Miraculous Births in other cultures. It isn't new to the world knowledge but this is the only one accepted my Christ's followers. Gods have impregnated virgins before. Kind of a past time throughout religion as a whole. " You are right, this practice is used in many cultures throughout the world both before and after Christ. Why? Well we must look back at, satan, satan desired to be God. In desiring to be God, he learned many things about God and His knowledge. This knowledge aquired was helpful for him to decieve. I like my opponent believe no 'virgin births' took place other than Jesus. Signs of other cultures accross the world, only gives credance to Jesus, as actually bring a true event. Jesus was the only one in all these false Messiah's to fulfill the prophecy of the Messiah. This hold wait for Him being the Messiah, if there was one. Though my opponent supplied no reasons why Mary-mother of Jesus, is a liar. He also gives no reference to why we should throwout thousands of years of belief. I can undertand his clause that women today do not have babies without sex, agreed. But that is not evidence against divine intervention. "This debate is not for if Mary existed. She did but was there a virgin birth that is the topic" I can not give as my opponent wants, Live proof! That is impossible, atleast for me. Though I can offer the thousands of years of Christianity and faithful followers of Christ, who they themselves experince the spirit of Mary. If thses people are in fact experiencing Mary-mother of Jesus. This is evidence she was a virgin as claimed and mother of God. My opponent concedes to the fact Mary was real and Jesus's mother. So we will procede to evidence of her being a virgin by thousands of years of belief: Theological basis for the veneration of Mary . http://www.catholic.org... The Catholic veneration of Mary is based on two aspects: the workings of God who made a virgin the Mother of God,[12] and the biblical view of Mary as the selected maiden of the Lord[13] who is greeted and praised[14]by both Elisabeth[15]Luke 1:28. A Christology without Mary is erroneous in the Roman Catholic view, because it is not based on the total revelation of the Bible. Traces of this parallel interpretation go back to the early days of Christianity and numerous saints have since focused on it. OUR MOTHER THE SAINT VIRGIN . http://tasbeha.org... There is no woman about whom the prophets prophesied, and about whom the Holy Bible cared, like the Virgin Mary. .. .. .. There are numerous symbols about her in the Old Testament. In the New Testament also, there are her biography, her praise, and the miracles. How many are the glorifying expressions and the contemplations, which were cited about the Virgin in the books of the fathers. .. .. .. .. How full of praise are the surnames by which the Church calls her, and which are inspired from the Spirit of the Holy Bible. .. .. .. ! Many witnessed accounts of Jesus and Mary: . http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org... . http://www.pleaseconvinceme.com... . http://www.jesuswalk.com... A more troubling question is if eyewitnesses can't seem to get their stories straight, whether we can believe the story or not. When you think about it, you realize that these very differences validate the authenticity of the story. In the big, important things we see five main points of agreement. They include: Jesus was dead and buried. The disciples were not prepared for Jesus' death. They were overcome with confusion. The tomb was found on Easter morning to be empty. But this in itself didn't inspire faith. Mary thought the body was stolen. The disciples encountered a number of experiences which they took to be appearances of Jesus risen from the dead. The disciples proclaimed the resurrection of Jesus in Jerusalem, near where he had been buried. Key Verses "[The other disciple] bent down to look in and saw the linen wrappings lying there, but he did not go in. Then Simon Peter, who was behind him, arrived and went into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, as well as the burial cloth that had been around Jesus' head. The cloth was folded up by itself, separate from the linen. Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed. " (John 20:6-8) "Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: 'I have seen the Lord! ' And she told them that he had said these things to her. " (John 20:18) To conclude this round I would like to make some BOLD statements myself. First, anything in this world is perception, what you percieve will most likely be what you believe. If the billions upon billions believe and feel Jesus Christ, then that itself proves Mary as a virgin, because it give credance to it. If you do not believe then you will not percieve these miracles. Can we as a society makes claims that such miracles do not and can not happen? I do no think we can. I give thousands of years of verified testimony of billions of believers. This holds weight. I gave thousands of years of documanted evidence that Mary was a virgin and the mother of the Living God. This holds weight. My opponent only approach is biological evidence of today, which means nothing to thousands of years ago. Final note* I think opponent and the reader can see this whole topic relies on hear say. My opponents whole case relies on hear say and as does mine. Who's hear say is more convincing is the question? In the next round is the conclusion were our final arguement and rebuttal clashes. Thanks to my opponent.