DDO vs Edb8

Thanks to Larz for acceptingInstead of contentions in this round I want to go over the impacts and who is winning whatCon Impacts1) FeaturesThis is the main impact for Larz. I will concede that his site allows you to do both team debates, and video debates on site. Meaning you do not have to rely on a third party system to do them. Larz will also concede that those same things can be accomplished on DDO, it just takes more effort to do it. He himself has participated in video debates on DDO, and we can see the countless team debates that occur on DDO. The only difference is that his site makes it more convenient. Both sites can accomplish the same things, but as I said his is on site. This would be a major impact for him if you could not do team debates or video debates at all on DDO. The issue is you can do them, it just takes more time. This mitigates the impacts significantly in terms of the weight it carries. Pro Impacts1) Higher Quality Members and DebatesLarz is trying to argue that his site has a *higher percentage* of high quality debate and members, which is an absolute straw man. If a new debate site is started, and they had 2 debates and 1 of them was high quality they would have half the debates on the site being high quality. The same logic is applied to members. That in no way makes it a better site than DDO. DDO on balance as *more* high quality debates and members in general. We have an entire 7 year archive of debates. People often come to the site when they are doing research topics for school and college because they find these debates. With the amount of members we have and thousands coming to the site on a day to day basis, we will pick up members that just show up and post a debate for fun and leave. That does not negate the amount of quality that is found on this site. He contests that there is 1 good member for every 3 poor members. This is shakey on so many levels as he would have to constitute what is a poor member. By his own assertion, anything that is *not formal* is of poor quality. Anything that is not drafted as a resolution for competitive debate is *poor quality*. This is wrong on so many levels.1) A member can not debate at all and positively contribute to the site and be a good member and invest in the site2) Just in formal debates alone, there is no comparison. Even if all of edb8s 200 debates were *good quality* which they are not, DDO has thousands upon thousands that are archived and active. He then asserts I did not contest what makes his site *higher quality*. I contested this and shot it down in the last round. He was asserting that his site focuses on making members better, working on voting, etc. I showed that DDO does all of these and does it better with countless adopt a noob tournamnets, high quality members being listed on the main page as constant mentors, user guides, voting feedback through moderation, etc. Asserting I did not contest this is false. DDO has a progressive system designed to help keep members on the site and show them how to use it effectively. We have picked up countless new members and integrated them into the site.2) Online Presence / Profitability. I'm going to use this also as a rebuttal to pros contention about ads, and tie it in with my impact. Larz claims adds are intrusive, but they are necessary. Marketing is what I do on a day to day basis , so in terms of necessity I can indeed confirm why they are useful. He claims his site runs on low overhead which is fine, but think about this from a business standpoint. If you have a business that costs 5 dollars a day to run, but you are only making 5 dollars a day there is no money to invest in other areas . Meaning you are just making enough to sustain the business, or in Larzs case probably investing your own money into maintaining the site. He would have to come out of pocket to even pay for the sites website fee on top of sustaining any other issues with it. Sure it's a low overhead but there is 0 profit. The issue with this is you can't invest money back into marketing or increasing your online presence. There are hundreds of ways to increase an online presence, which starts with working on your digiitly footprint. You can run paid for hits, invest money to boost your website to the top of a search engine on the side and gain hits organically. Organic hits occur naturally , meaning by running adds on DDO juggle is actually able to make a profit and then in turn boost this sites online presence. If you google debate on google edb8 will be on the last possible page, where as DDO will be near the top. This is based on the profit of the site and what they do to boost organic hits. More organic hits mean more views and users, which means higher qulaity debates and members because of how easy it is to find. The very definition of *value* in terms of which site is better underlines this contention. Value is based on profit, and sure non profitable organizations can do good but when you are doing a comparative debate revolved around numbers and statistics. The site that makes the most profit has the best chance of getting numbers and members online. This literally works with my quality impact to show that net worth is a primary contention in this debate by the very essence of the definition. Due to Larz making no profit it forces him to invest his own money, and even if he is running off low overhead that means nothing. DDO is making more than enough to offset the overhead and reinvest the money back into the site to make it more versatile. 3) Social Setting / User ContentLarz says social interactions occur on edb8 but I would advise anyone to test this theory. Go the website see the interaction on the forums. Sometimes days can go between a single post. The amount of social interaction on DDO is far greater by no comparable standard. Even if edb8 has mafia, it does not have it to a comparable degree to the amount DDO has. This impact is weighted on how much social interaction occurs. Just because 2 people talk on edb8 does earn him this point or refute my point. DDO has constant mafia games going, fan fics, user praise threads, nightly hangouts. All these occur on site instead of off. This encourages people to participate on DDO which then in turn fuels the Archive of material on the site and draws in new members. This is a great way to add a net beneift to the site (such as building an archive of material all on site) while helping people stay where they are not bored. Again just because 1 or 2 people talk on edbate (check the forums to verify the time lapse in between posts and activity) does not negate this point. The amount of social interaction and user generated content on DDO far surpasses edb8. 4) Appeals to everyone / encourages all types of debateLarz has already dubbed *high quality debates* as debates that are typically formal debate. he even states this in his rebuttal to quality so consider this a concession" It's not about more serious topics, but about more quality topics. Such as topics written by experts for major tournaments. "Along with saying that high quality debates are only tournament style debates, he basically asserts this is the only type of quality you can have. I fundamentally disagree. Debate is the pursuit of knowledge. By limiting that to a *meta* you are disallowing quality topics that are not included in that meta. This could be comic topics, fun topics, or any topic for that matter that is not included in that specific target area. Larz literally concedes that DDO appeals to more versatile user base by his own definition of quality debates and what he encourages on his site. ConclusionThe rest of the primary contentions and impacts bascially cancel each other out and rely on larz making bare asserions. Larz says his site does a better job building judges and helping members learn debate. This is just an assertion based on no evdience. DDO does this equally if not more with the new members thread, open mentor system , adopt a noob tournaments, open message system, user guides etc. This completely shatters larzs point about quality or even his point that his site is more focused on building better members. DDO does the same, it just has more members. There have been countless members that were new that have become beyond valuable members. Myself, Debatability, Romani, DK, Fuzzy, Subtai, Sargon, BOT, Tuf, Zaro, wylted and so many more are all proof of this. When you are referring to jifpop as a quality member that produces quality content something is wrong and his points don't add up. Socialization is virtually negated as both sites are linked to face book, while DDO has a blog and his site has a few hashtag features. This is not even a valid impact as both do this and the extent is very similar. We can negate this. Site bugs. Larz just asserts there is a few bugs on DDO. As I have stated almost every bug is fixed instantly such as the "error" message. For this to be a valid impact it would actually have to negatively impact the site and in a high degree. It does not impact it to any noticeable degree so we can negate this point as he himself concedes that edb8 also has bugs along with any other site. Both sites get rid of them quickly. Judge content and builidng new members. I have effectively just shattered this point as it is a bare assertion. He asserts his site builds members, well so does ours and we do it better. See the first paragraph of conclusion. If anything this impact is negated and canceled out, and if not it goes to DDO. This is no where in a realistic realm that edb8 does this better than DDO. Formats , just underlining text on a profile page or changing your background does not add value to the site at least to any noticeable degree. We can get rid of this as well. If anything its minorThis is a debate about impacts. Larz has one impact, which is features. This is also been mitigated. While I have 4-6 that stand strong. This is a clear choice