LM CLassic Semi-finals: Puck vs Logical-Master

If L-M wants to give up a part of the voting then that is his prerogative. The ramifications of those arguments extend beyond conduct though and to what is valid within the actual debate. The claim to a fallacy is incorrect. Style over Substance fallacy relates to how an argument is delivered (faulty speech, stammering, poor language use etc., being used as a measure of a poor argument). The claim was L-M backtracked 'time' on his characters to apply new arguments as to what they did. http://changingminds.org... The "adjustment claim" is not equitable. They were simply 'if that is insufficient Sinister does X'. *Not* if that fails then I start again and do over. == 1. "First, the ambush is most relevant as the situation ... " Once you allow Sinister the opportunity to battle Apocalypse the issue of ambush is moot, *especially* since you attempt the 'contact in secret' argument, meaning offense was never the intent; giving Sinister the first move. Your DDO links are to no album. Imageshack link is to mine from prior round. Cable vs Apocolypse: http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net... Sage and mindmap: http://img94.imageshack.us... Sage can fully map Apocalypse's structure providing it to Sinister. A mindmap is analogous to a smaller portion of the total Sage can provide Sinister. Nate Grey is Omega level at the time we are discussing. http://www.comicvine.com... 1 B. L-M dropped. 1 C. I used Cable, Jean Grey, Madelyne Pryor to establish an minimum upper limit of Sinister's abilities. L-M has used a single self reference to set his bar as 'above Professor X'. L-M had 4 rounds to provide evidence of Apocalypse's supposedly profound mental feats and did not. He has failed to establish his psychic level *at all* let alone on a level above the Professor. His "single reference" is not valid as it was not ably backed up. 1 D. "Apocalypse's ship is nowhere near the vicinity" He is having a conversation about it, making it *post* event. The nature of how is not referenced in the frame at all. The issue of it being an alien tech possibility remains. Possibility is all that is necessary to make it a non valid reference to his skill level. Access to his ship's tech is void. It exists outside NY city and the 1K sky limit above buildings (judges, read L-M's R1 with Amazo, where he references what we agreed to in PM; the sky limit set to 1 kilometre above the tallest building). Nor is this a debate about what other members of this tourney have argued, since it exists outside the bounds of this debate and our teams. 2 A. L-M failed to prove the abilities of his Gauntlets. For this battle they can only provide the ability 'boomtube' and none of the other vaunted motherbox abilities L-M attempted to claim Batman would have access to. "Spiral doesn't possess psychic immunity." Irrelevant for this section since we are talking about what Batman can do. "As for Deadpool, ... that just leaves him with Super Amazo, Apocalypse, and doomsday to deal with. Hiding =/= Winning." Deadpool doesn't have to deal with other members of your team apart from what you send after him. If the nanites succeed, Batman and Spiderman never meet Deadpool. There is no other way you can access his location, meaning your team can *never* win, since Deadpool is never destroyed and immune to psychic awareness to find him. http://img528.imageshack.us... I never hide him away, he uses the landscape to his tactical advantage, setting traps in areas he accesses in the event of contact. It's a valid strategy as you yourself can attest to, having both Spiderman and Batman bear the brunt of it. 2 B. Source arguments rendered unnecessary. 3. "Spiral put the spell into effect before Doomsdays decides to attack, provided Sinister's counter to Apocalypse's initial telepathic search was impeded." No provision at all. From R1: "Concurrent with the start of the battle:", "Spiral creates a bubble around the team." The spell is in effect from the start of the battle and you have Doomsday *wait* for Apocalypse to give him directions, meaning even if Apocalypse has the upper hand, the spell is in place. Doomsday flies straight into it rendering him unable to advance/retreat making him easy picking for Spiral's paralysis spell. "Keep in mind the incantation Spiral has to make ... keeping in mind the speed of Apoccy's own cognition ... Doomsday's speed." You failed to provide any evidence for Apocalypse, let alone the speed at which he can cast his mind abroad. Speed arguments for Apocalypse > contact > Doomsday's instruction > my team are unfounded. Spiral cast the spell in a full battle with the full team of Avengers present. A waiting delay would have likely been fatal. http://www.comicvine.com... 4. How much Sage can boost is irrelevant since I only wanted to establish it as 'extra in case' vs. Apocalypse, and to establish a higher (any) level. Much like the psychic/astral plane argument, it goes against 'Sinister is X level' arguments where additional boosts serve the purpose of allowing presumably greater force to be brought to bear against Apocalypse. If you hold that the manifestaion is a measure of one's power, that puts Sinister highly indeed. http://img202.imageshack.us... 5 A. "And he shall be immune to sneak attacks as well" The nanites are teleported *to* Amazo, meaning they are in effect when they appear, making any spider sense of them > action moot as upon arrival they are in effect. Amazo is depowered as they appear. Even so, Angela can also have the next batch teleported into Amazo for the same effect, bypassing a TK shield. "With precog, he knows about the nannit blitz before it is even used" Spidey sense relates to what is there to precog it (e.g. before a gun is fired at him point blank). Since the nanites teleport to him, precog is useless to him here. http://en.wikipedia.org...'s_powers_and_equipment#Spider-sense "I point out that there was never anything in my case to indicate that Apocalypse is even anywhere out of Amazo's sigh." You in R1 use Apocolypse's abilities with Amazo, the only issue was resolving the initial Sinister incursion. As you teleport Apocalypse, and only grow Amazo, the 'pre' TK shield *before* nanites attack argument is void. " examples of CON adjusting his position should suffice in indicating that his point holds no weight." Addressed already. Note I don't contest that Apocalypse can teleport as it's an example of the flow of the battle (Sinister engages, Apocalypse to escape a TP push, teleports). Note how this is different than 'I did this' then 'No wait, I want to do it this way this time' which some of L-M's arguments were. 5 B. "My opponent initially has Deadpool stand and fight as well ... His conduct here is no different than mine." False: R1: Deadpool teleports to a sealed location, given by Engineer, and prepares. R2: Deadpool has been preparing since he teleported in (see R1) [[[as the duo appear, he detonates set explosives as he teleports to the next locale,]]]... 6 B. "Sinister cannot move at lightspeed ... " You have Amazo race towards my team *then* change size. Ample time for Sinister to prepare paralysis touch. Damage as per pic is irrelevant anyway. Rest of team strategy was not countered. == L-M never argues against the ability of my nanites, dropping arguments of Batman's and Spiderman's escape of them. They are out, and if not, Deadpool was capable. Deadpool was never engaged with. Amazo is taken out by nanites, never argued against that could not. Or later at the telefrag attempt. Doomsday was dealt with by Spiral. Sinister takes Apoc.