Joseph Stalin

R1: Stalin V. HitlerI. Hitler killed based off of religion. He killed people as he thought they where not as good as Germans. [1] It wasn't for genocide, rather him being a racial supremacist. Stalin, a I have proven, killed more people, killing is killing, no matter the motive. Your argument is he liberated people, well a switch from one evil snot to another evil snot is not liberation. I would like to add that Churchill thought Stalin threatened freedom and the west more then Hitler. [2] So really a switch fro h-ll to h-ll isn't good. Even if you are correct, he still killed 20 million people, lets subtract 300 guys, oh wait he is still a mass murderer... He truly killed 20 million people, even his grandfather! [3] As Stalin killed more people he is worse.II. You concede as you admitted Stalin took away private life. The both countries (as Nazis killed Jews) had little freedom of religion. [4] In the USSR however, there was little right to travel as they had the Berlin wall and 7 day workweeks (see last round), whereas in Nazi Germany you could travel. [4] III. "On January 30, 1933, President Hindenburg appointed Adolf Hitler chancellor of Germany." [5]Hindenburg (not the blimp) was rightfully elected leader of Germany. When he decided to step down, he appointed Hitler as the leader, which is a fair appointment you may say. The coup you named happened when he was leader, hence my point about a fair rise to power stands.R2: Industry and medicineI. "In 1928, the Communist Party approved the first of Stalin's proposed Five-Year Plans. The two major policies stipulated in his First Five-Year Plans were extremely demanding and in the long run proved to be unattainable." [6]His economic plans where not realistic in other words. The central government planing and the subsidies are arguably bad for the economy. Also you seem to be against the Nazis, yet they had similar 4 year plans, similar to these. [7] Many of the plans where failed and abandoned. [7] Only 5/13 where actually beneficial. The plans killed 5 million in famine, deported 10 million workers, and where highly unpopular, [8] His plans failed.II. You need to provide a source when saying non-common knowledge things. Also you never specified which, so basically this argument is vague and un-sourced, whereas mine was clear and sourced. Also to lower the statistics of the people dying in the soviet hospitals they where pushed out of the door before they died. [9] The doctors where poorly trained as well. [9]III. So killing people and ruining the lives of workers is ok? If that is your justification then that is terrible. Also, this is proof you haven't researched outside of Wikipedia, it was because they where 100 years behind. [4] I also find it funny I have proven Stalin killed more, hence you would be annihilated more in the USSR.R3: faminesI. Still, what source? "The second Soviet famine happened during the collectivization in the USSR. In 1932-1933 confiscations of grain and other food by the Soviet authorities" [10] This is a direct link to SOVIET OFFICIALS UNDER STALIN, not an economic downturn. As I stated last round, Stalin made the laws saying take the food. I do not see how you are justifying murder.II. The NKVD killed ethnic minorities in the gulags. [11] So whole groups of ethnic minorities are criminals? Sure a few are but not all. Also a refutation to he couldn't have stopped it:"Premier of the Soviet Union from 6 May 1941 to 5 March 1953." [11]He was the supreme ruler of the USSR and the communist party, yeah he could have ended the orders, or even not signed the laws in the first place! So he could have 1) ended it, or 2) prevented it. Dude, you cannot justify mass murders of 20 million people. R4: 3rd worldSo if I launched a plane into space would it directly affect you? No it would not help you at all. "There was no improvement in the average standard of living; in fact the average non-farm wage purchased only about half as much in 1932 as in 1938. " [12]You and I agree that before Stalin life in russia was terrible, well here it says income was actually not much better, and maybe even worse than before! So life wise it was bad. You claim launching people into space was good, yet how does it effect the standard of living? It doesn't. I could throw 100 US citizens into space, and no ones life would improve. Good Military and government technology =/= good citizen life."the government built few apartments, such that by 1940, there were roughly four people per room in every urban dwelling." [12]As they where poor and cramped, russia under Stalin was a 3rd world country. conclusion:I have refuted his arguments, and proven Stalin's plans failed, Russia was a third world country, had poor healthcare, and he was a ruthless killer. Justifying genocide makes no sense, as he was a murdering person, and didn't help at all, I urge a pro ballot. Arguments: me as I proved Stalin was a murderer and decreased the quality of life in the USSRSources: Me I had more and used more then Wikipedia and a few Marxist sites. S/G: You decideConduct: you decidedagree disagree: Your choice, as it is probably me though :) VOTE CON, VOTE ANTI KILLING!!!!!!!!sources:http://library.thinkquest.org... [1]http://www.freerepublic.com... [2]http://www.dailymail.co.uk... [3]http://markhumphrys.com... [4]http://www.fff.org... [5]http://econc10.bu.edu... [6]http://en.wikipedia.org... [7]http://www.schoolhistory.co.uk... [8]http://mises.org... [9]http://en.wikipedia.org... [10]http://en.wikipedia.org... [11]http://www.historydoctor.net... [12]