Resolved: The US founding fathers were Socialist

Rebuttals State constitutions are irrelevant in determining the political orientation of the Founding Fathers Pro claims that due to the Supremacy Clause, the State Constitutions are irrelevant in determining the political orientation of the founding fathers. This is an extremely foolish statement. The Supremacy Clause simply eliminates conflicting laws; it does not eliminate the State Constitutions. The State constitutions are still relevant to their respective States. Pro even went so far as to claim, “[the supremacy clause] reflects the Founding Father's weariness with federalism and their desire to form a stronger national Government.” First off, the Supremacy clause it’s self recognizes that we are a Federation, and attempts to make laws efficient, by eliminating conflict. If the founders wanted an all power central government, they would have created a unitary state. Furthermore, according to the 10th amendment to the constitution, in the US Bill of rights, “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”[1] Therefore the US constitution is a limited constitution, and all powers not specifically given to the Federal Government, is the power of the State Governments. Pro claims, “state constitutions is utterly irrelevant in determining the political values of the Founding Fathers, who - as we already agreed - are those who specifically drafted the federal U.S. Constitution.” Actually we agreed the Founding fathers were those who established the Government. We are a Federation, so state constitutions are relevant. Compensating property owners after seizing their property by force is not a "purchase" Pro claims that since the government forces a land owner to sell their land, it can’t be considered a purchase. That is just plain wrong, the power to take land with just compensation, is not derived from the restrictive 5th amendment, but rather Article 1, section 8, which reads; “To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;”[2] Pro said, “Alexander Hamilton,… cited the implied powers of the Necessary and Proper Clause to justify the creation of the first national bank,” First off, the Necessary and Proper clause reads, “[congress has the power] To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.”[2] (adj) necessary (absolutely essential)[3] (adj) proper (limited to the thing specified)[4] In other words, Congress may make laws which are absolutely essential, and limited to the powers specifically granted to the Federal Government. Also in article 1 section 8, it grants congress the power to “To borrow money on the credit of the United States;… To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin…”[2] The First Bank of the United States was a privately owned bank, granted a 20 year charter, known as the Bank Bill of 1791. The Bank was granted a monopoly, and in return they printed Bank Notes for the Government (such as the dollar bill), and they lent the Government money, when needed. That was the extent of the Bank’s government powers, according to its charter. [5] I’m pretty sure that’s not what Marx had in mind. The Federalist Party's policies were not socialist Pro claims “[the federalist party was socialist] given the fact that industry-specific subsidies ("bounties") and tarriffs are by their very nature redistributive.” First off Hamilton said other countries use Bounties, look at the quote again; "But the greatest obstacle of all to the successful prosecution of a new branch of industry in a country, in which it was before unknown, consists, as far as the instances apply, in the bounties, premiums and other aids which are granted, in a variety of cases, by the nations in which the establishments to be imitated are previously introduced. It is well known that certain nations grant bounties on the exportation of particular commodities, to enable their own workmen to undersell and supplant all competitors, in the countries to which those commodities are sent. Hence the undertakers of a new manafacture have to contend not only with the natural disadvantages of a new undertaking, but with the gratuities and remunerations which other governments bestow.” Hamilton was in favor of a protective tariff, in order to counter other countries’ aid. A tariff is a tax, and a protective tariff is implemented in order to artificially raise the prices of imports, to make local goods more desirable. Pro once again shows his ignorance of history by claiming, “The word ‘socialism’ itself only became popularized almost 100 years after the Founding Fathers existed.” The term socialism is attributed to Henri de Saint-Simon. After Henri died in 1825 his followers used the term "socialism" to refer to his ideals. [6] Pro than attempted to claim the federalist were Marxists, however the communist manifesto was published by Marx in 1848, while the US established the National Bank in 1791; there seems to be a problem in Pro’s timeline. Argument Pro’s argument seems to be based around the belief the Federalists were socialists, so I will prove they were not socialists, but rather Nationalists. Federalist Platform The economic policy of the Federalist Party was; funding of the old revolutionary war debt , and the assumption of state debts passage of excise laws creation of a central bank maintenance of a tariff system favorable treatment of American shipping [7] Assumption of State Debt, and favorable treatment of American shipping State Debt assumption is not Socialist, but rather nationalist; it has nothing to do with private v public, it has to do with local v National. Assumption of State debt is a Nationalistic policy just like favoring American shipping, over foreign shipping, as they focus on the National interest. Excises and Tariffs Both excises and Tariffs are the only taxes mentioned in the constitution, which states, “The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, imposts and Excises.”[2] (n) Excise (a tax that is measured by the amount of business done (not on property or income from real estate)) [8] (n) Impost (money collected under a tariff) [9] The tariffs were used by Federalists to promote American goods, over foreign goods. Tariffs are hardly socialist. The Federalists favored Economic Nationalism, which is designed to promote National goods over foreign goods. An example of an Excise would be the stamp act imposed by the British on sugar. The Excise tax does not tax property, or income, but rather sales; hence it’s not a redistributive tax, like the income tax. The income tax was unconstitutional until the 16th amendment.[10] Central Bank As stated before the Central Bank was a Private Bank, with a Monopoly. It was employed by the Government.ConclusionThe Federalists were Nationalist, and the constitutions, as well as quotes proves the Founders were anti-Socialism. http://www.usconstitution.net... http://www.usconstitution.net... http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu... http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu... http://www.applet-magic.com... http://www.arthistoryunstuffed.com... http://www.history.com... http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu... http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu... http://www.usconstitution.net...