Revelation Was Written Before A.D 70.

Rebuttals “Any futurist view forces a late date for Revelation. John Nelson Darby [1] promoted Dispensationalism. As I stated in my arguments, a futurist view does not require a late date for Revelation. The prophecy can still refer to a future date regardless of the composition date of John’s Apocalypse. The Preterist view does, as a prerequisite, require an early date. Also, I would like to clarify John Nelson Darby did not invent the futurist view. This view was held by the early church fathers, such as Ireneaus (whom we have already discussed in my previous arguments), Hippolytus, Africanus, Eusebius, and Hesychius, just to name a few. “Argument # 1 – Audience relevance” The Bible does contain audience relevant passages. This is not an argument for or against either of our positions here. “Argument # 2 – The Time of God’s Vengeance on apostate Israel” When Matthew 23:29-38 is taken in context with the Olivet Discourse in the following chapter in Matthew, Pro’s interpretation is rendered impotent. Matthew 24 3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” Jesus gives a long list of things which did not happen in A.D. 70 such as: 29 Immediately after the distress of those days, ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ 30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. “34 Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. -Matthew 24:34” This has been taken out of context as well. Matthew 24: 32-34 32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Jesus is referring to the generation of people alive on the earth when the Last Days come about. One popular interpretation of the Fig tree parable is the re-establishment of Israel in 1948 was the ‘re-blooming’ of the tree. “How does God define a generation to which we speak?” “Generations vary in the Bible. “The average generation from Abraham to David (Matt. 1:17) was approximately 64 years, while the average generation for the other two groups was 38 years. The time span covered by each generation is not the emphasis, but rather the fact of the passing of the number of successive generations. There are also other meanings for the term “generation.” For example, the “generation” that will see Christ return (Matt. 24:34) refers to those who will be alive at that time.” [7] “Argument 3 – The Destruction of the Temple QUESTION: Why is there no mention of the Temple having being destroyed in any book of the NT if some/all these books were written after A.D. 70?” Let me clarify, most of the books of the NT are thought to have been written before 70AD. As for Revelation, John did not mention the destruction of the temple because he was commanded by Jesus to write what he saw in relation to the prophecy. To do otherwise would have been disobeying Jesus. Revelation 1:19 (NASB) 19 Therefore write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things. Secondly, Revelation was audience specific to Gentile believers in Asia Minor in AD 95. [9] The temple would not have been relevant to his audience.The other books of John were written to Jews AND Gentiles. There was no mention of the temple because it did not compliment the intent of his message. “Argument 4 – Some clues in Revelation as to its date of writing” “1) The numerous references to things which must shortly come to pass.” This was to give a sense of urgency, not to establish a time line. Revelation is the vision of end times and the second coming of Christ given to John by Jesus. According to scripture, Jesus could not know if the second coming would shortly come to pass. Matthew 24:36 (NASB) 36 But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. “2) John is told to measure the temple which still stands.” Revelation is a prophecy and John was measuring a temple in a vision. “This does not mean the temple was actually standing at the time of writing. Daniel 9 and Ezekiel 40-43 both mention temples which were not standing at the time of composition.” [10] “3) The seven churches in Asia stand. Paul establish some of them. He writes to them before his death. My opponent will have to establish this as not being the case in order for a late date to hold.” The churches were addressed in my original argument. I fail to see how the early date of these churches affects the late date of the writing of Revelation. Would you mind clarifying your position here? “4) There are seven kings listed in Revelation 17. The one that is would be Nero. This would put the date of writing before A.D. 70. Nero died in A.D. 68.” One problem with this interpretation is when you try to figure out who the 8th king is. Rev 17:10-11 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction. The 8th was to be one of the 7. Who might that be in the list of Roman emperors? Also, This is a vision of the future. How do we know what time frame John was envisioning? To assume Nero is the "One [that] is" is a leap of faith on Pro's part and can not be used without first establishing the time frame of the vision. This is a presupposition of Revelation written before 70 AD and I cannot follow Pro there based on this submission. There are many interpretations of the ‘seven kings’, so I have no desire to embrace one. I think readers will understand I am not a theologian. However, the Bible has other examples of “mountains” referring to “Kingdoms” or forms of government instead of “kings". Here are a few examples of mountain symbolizing kingdom: Isaiah 2:2, Isaiah 13:1-2, 40:4, Daniel 2:34-35, Jeremiah 51:24-25, Zechariah 4:7, Micah 4:1-2New Argument Practical Implications for the current ageIf we assume the destruction of the temple in 70 AD were a fulfillment of most prophecies in Revelation, and we are in the "New heaven and Earth", then this means there is "no Satan (Rev. 20:10), no death, crying or pain (Rev. 21:4), no longer any unclean, nor those practicing abomination and lying (Rev. 21:27), no curse (Rev. 22:3), the presence of God the Father (Rev. 22:4), just to name a few". [11]Titus 2:12-13 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,Since Jesus Christ has already come should we say "yes" or "be indifferent" to ungodliness and worldly passions, etc? Unfortunately, this view would make most of the NT applicable to a 40 year period in the past and obsolete to the the modern era. There are many more implications, but...character limit!I look forward to the next Round, sir! [7] http://rcg.org... [8] http://www.gci.org... [9] http://vimeo.com... Dr. Mark Hitchcock time 16:15 [10] http://vimeo.com... Dr. Mark Hitchcock time 18:51 [11] http://www.ldolphin.org...