Girls should "make the first move" more than they currently do now.

"First, he notes that extremely shy and socially anxious males can be put at a serious disadvantage compared to those who are outgoing and socially confident. Is this a bad thing, really? Smart men have an advantage compared to dumb men. Strong men have an advantage compared to weak men. This is because strong and smart are two different traits the female population at large values, at least on average. It is no different for the traits "outgoing" and "socially confident. " These traits should be given an advantage, and their opposites, shy and socially anxious, should be at a disadvantage. " You assume that shy and socially anxious men are weak. When in reality they, in my experience, are very strong (in character, as I assume you used the word weak in such a manner) and tend to be intellects. This can be seen in many online communities, where people get together, have intellectual discussions and debates, but also regularly complain about how they are lonely and always too shy ask a girl out. These type of communities are all over the internet and tend to be made up of some the the nicest people you will be in real life. I can personally attest to this, because I have formed many relationship with these kinds of people outside of the online community. You also state that the female population values strong and smart traits, this is incorrect. If they did value those traits they would realize that the ones that truly tend to be nice and intelligent are in most cases shy and socially anxious, then pursue them in hopes of a relationship. I do agree with you, some people will be advantaged, and some disadvantaged, but both parties will be benefited by the relationship between a shy guy and a female willing to initiate a relationship. I will discuss these benefits later. "First, it could be, at least partially, genetic. As is noted by my opponent, love-shy men have a very hard time finding a mate, and therefore are much less likely to pass on their love-shyness. However, love-shy women don't have anywhere near the same trouble finding a mate. Therefore, this love-shy gene would thrive in women, but not so much in men. " Love-shyness as defined by my source in the outline of the debate, only applies to men. In his study, psychologist Brian G. Gilmartin, came the the following conclusion about women who may suffer from similar love-shyness. "The very shy young woman is no less likely to date and to marry than is the self-confident woman, non-shy woman . . . . In essence, even very shy women marry. Love-shy men cannot and do not marry irrespective of how strong their desires might be . . . . " This is allowed by the social norm now, as you said, a love-shy woman does not have to pursue a relationship as they are supposed to come to her. You state that love-shyness is genetic, when in fact it is most likely a result of untreated depression, traumatic events in the person's past, fear of rejection, and even the need for intellectuals to over think themselves out of a situation, like asking a girl out. (. http://www.shynessonline.com...) It could possibly be passed on but not in the sense you speak of, but rather by social situations common in a specific family. "Second, it could be caused by upbringing. Since we live in a society where men are expected to ask women out, women are not taught to be the initiating force of a relationship. By the media, by their parents, etc. None of these sources teach women to be the active pursuer of a relationship to the extent that men are. Therefore, it is completely reasonable that we observe many more men starting relationships than females. " In the proposition of the debate I said that women should "make the first move" more than they currently do. Your argument here tells why they do not pursue the first move but does nothing to say why they shouldn't other that that it is the social norm. Kind of circular reasoning, "women should stick to the social norm because it is the social norm. " We are debating on whether or not it should change. Now,as I promised, here are some benefits women would receive if they began to pursue love-shy men more than they currently do. 1) Women would be more likely to be in long term relationships as once a love-shy person gets with someone, it is of the utmost importance to them hold onto her. They know they are very lucky and will treat their loved one much better and value them more than someone who could easily hit the clubs and pick up women if he needed to, resulting in a longer relationship. 2) As you stated before, women like the strong and smart traits, they would most likely get both of these in a love-shy person as they tend to be very romantic and intellectual, just unable to openly express their feelings. With some work a girl could help the love-shy person break out of their shell, getting much more than what they could from some social stud. I'm glad you chose to take up this debate, and from your response I know I will gain much even if I lose, which I hope not to. You're much better than the debater in my first debate.