The abortion limit should be set at 20 weeks

Thanks for your argument. Here are my thoughts. "I don't agree that a fetus has to pass some sort of milestone marker in order to gain value in this world" If something has value there has to be a reason for being valued. My hat is of value because (Add reason here- makes me look good/ useful). When would you value something without having any reason too AND would you be right to value it? This reason for value necessarily puts a milestone marker on when this value starts. If you agree with me that feeling is the morally relevant factor for value then 20 weeks should be the abortion limit. Another morally relevant factor may result in setting the abortion limit at conception or birth or anywhere in between. But there has to be a milestone marker somewhere and why is conception any different than any other time of pregnancy? ""because that would mean the fetus' value depends on its ability to feel, which isn't at all a very scientific, or ethical way to determine value." It is scientific and moral. We can test scientifically our pleasure and pain and it is moral as the only reason for an act being immoral is if it causes pain. Stealing is not wrong unless it causes others pain. "That's exactly like saying "as long as you aren't aware of pain or negative consequences, it doesn't effect you."" An adult human life unaware of the pain or negative consequences would have value where the unfeeling fetus does not as the adult human, though not being aware, does have the capacity to feel pain. The unfeeling fetus does not. Without pain we are valueless in ourselves- what would be the difference between a being that has no feelings to an inanimate stone? "It's another life that is being taken, and though it hasn't had a chance to see the world yet, it still is living though they are dependent on someone else." I agree dependence on an "other" is not justification for the "other" killing the dependent. However, you say its life being taken. But you do not justify why the life is valuable. We take animal life and the only difference between animal and human must be down to some morally relevant factor. Can you give me this morally relevant factor AND explain why animals are not included and fetuses are? "If you hinge the ability to determine the legal abortion limit based on pain, the same rules could apply for people killing fully newborns, even children, because they aren't fully developed, and as long as they don't feel pain when they are killed, it will be alright." Yes, all valuable creatures feel pain. Name an example of a person who is valuable but does not feel pain. When does a newborn or a child not feel any degree of pain or pleasure and still lives? Both pain and pleasure are essential to survival. Without hunger (pain) there is no reason to go and find food to eat. "And I have yet to find a reasonable excuse for an abortion. In this case, many people bring up the issue of rape, incest, or carrying out the procedure for the sake of the mother's life. Reality is, that less than 1% of all abortions are enacted because of these reasons, the 99%+ is simply for the sake of convenience, or desire." Circumstances do not matter to me. The fetus is either valuable or not and I think abortion becomes wrong when the fetus becomes valuable. "It sounds like value and what that includes determines the weight on the scales of a mother's desires, vs. the life of the fetus for you." What else can? Morality only exists because there is a preferable/ valuable outcome of acting a certain way. It is not the value in itself that I care about, but the reason for the value. Fetuses feel no pain before 24 weeks according to this study [1]. Different studies range as low as 20 weeks to higher. I think 20 weeks is right just in case we get it wrong and fetuses can feel pain at 20 weeks. Every study I've seen suggests 20-more weeks is when the fetus starts feeling. I look forward to your responses. [1] http://www.theguardian.com...