You should always be patriotic.

< > I didn't say that. Yes, like everyone else born here, I am willing to enjoy all the freedoms that America offers. I never said I would never make a sacrifice in order to keep those freedoms though. If there was an actual, imminent, foreign threat to the freedoms that we enjoy (like if Washington DC had been attacked and seized by another country), I would willingly join a militia/military to defend against this threat. Just because I'm not joining the Marines to go fight in the Middle East where our presence is brutalizing and unwanted, doesn't mean that I'm not willing to defend my freedoms and the freedoms of those who are being attacked. < > Sure America might "embody those qualities and more", but so do countless other countries. Do you think the slogan of Canada is "Captivity and misery!"? Of course not. EVERYONE wants to be free and happy, and consequently MANY governments "embody those qualities". < > I will concede this point. The UK and Europe in general are becoming more socialist. However, my overall life satisfaction wouldn't be any less than it is here if I was born over there. I could be just as happy as I am here in many other places around the world--and so could you. Suppose you were born in Italy--do you honestly think that you would love America? < > America being the greatest country in the world has nothing to do with patriotism. If everyone based their allegiance to a country on its status in the world, then why doesn't more of the world claim allegiance to America? Why don't we have American patriots from Nigeria, and Mynamar? Sure "some of the most devoted patriots in this country are those who have immigrated", but certainly not a majority of those who immigrate, claim allegiance to America. My mother has a friend who is from Brazil. She won't stand up for the pledge of allegiance, and she won't get citizenship is America. Why? For the same trivial reasons that you would do the same in her country. She has a sense of patriotism for Brazil--and no other country. People get all offended when she doesn't say the pledge of allegiance--but put yourself in the same situation. Imagine that you had a business opportunity in Brazil and you ended up living there for 10 years. Would you be patriotic towards the Brazilian government and heritage? No. Why? Because you feel patriotic towards America. I don't get offended when she doesn't stand for the national anthem, but I think she is just as silly in her beliefs and her dedication to one country and one country alone. That is exactly what patriotism does though--it engenders a sense of elitism and divides peoples of the world. When you are patriotic--you are patriotic to ONE country and ONE country alone. You think everyone else should be just like you. Why did we fight in Vietnam? Because the "threat of communism"? Communism doesn't kill people--tyrannical, fascist dictators do. < > If patriotism was the opposite of aggressive and offensive, then, again, why do we instigate so many wars? Could we survive if we left Iraq alone? Yes we could, and we could do it without sacrificing thousands of our soldiers and spending trillions of dollars. < > Whoa. "Patriotism" doesn't start wars? "A strong sense of national pride" does? I think you lost me. Even if those two aren't exactly the same, one implies and causes the other. Hence, using the transitive property: Patriotism --> Strong sense of national pride Strong sense of national pride --> The beginning of wars Patriotism --> The beginning of wars. I hope I didn't lose you there. And you say patriotism is what stopped all those wars? When a war is fought for the purpose of a war, in the end, there is a side of definite winners and a side of definite losers. It doesn't matter what side you fall on, you still have patriotism for your country. Just because the Nazi's lost WWII, doesn't mean that they conceded that they were wrong. They simply didn't have enough power to force their beliefs on others. The Allies did. Suppose that the Nazi's did win WWII and much of the world was under control of the regime. Do you think that they would call themselves the "Axis of Evil"? No. The winners of war get to write history, and thus the winners of war are always portrayed in a good light -- whether they were evil or not. Sorry... I kind of got of got off topic here. You made some other arguments but I will let those stand for what they are. I would like to make some of my own points now. When support the position that "You should always be patriotic", you are saying that no matter where you were born, you should be patriotic for the government that is sovereign over you. You need to get outside the idea of American patriotism. Let's talk about patriotism as it pertains to everyone in the world--not just Americans. You are saying that a Frenchman should love his government and no other, a Iraqi should love his and no other, and an American should love his and no other. What happens when everyone loves the government that governs them, is war. Plain and simple. If everyone thinks that they are right there are going to be a lot of conflicts in the world. If you eliminate the unconditional love for your country, you don't eliminate war altogether, but you could do away with a very large majority of it. I would like to know what you think patriotism does for world peace and tranquilty.