God does not exist as anything but myth

Contradictions are not only concepts of the mind. They can be manifested as concepts and actions. The one may lead to the other and visa versa. They are epistemological AND metaphysically. Pro states that being metaphysical is "impossible from the definition and description of God". Yet Pro offers no definition or description to support his claims. Saying that God is supposed to be limitless and supernatural is hardly a definition and even less of a proper description. People have different perceptions regarding the concepts and it is therefore better to define in as to be applied to the purpose of the debate. For example: Pro may ascribe characteristics to supernatural that contradicts the definition of the orthodox definition of the God he argues against. Perhaps I did not state it very clearly but an identity is a concept and a concept when defined has an identity. The two are interchangeable. I have heard people say that God is all-loving and all-powerful. By all-loving God loves everyone regardless and understand if you "sin" or even reject him. We all end up in heaven because He is all-loving. All-powerful according to some means He can do anything He wants to do. I also noticed you use the words "supposed to be". According to who? Personally I have a problem with all-loving and all-powerful as defined by some people because it is not very logical. From the Bible I also find this type of application does not apply to the God of the Bible. If God is all-loving in the sense that no one is accountable then He cannot be righteous or just. If He is all-loving then He allows people to get away with anything and therefore do not hold them accountable for what they did wrong. The idea of justice is only logical if there is an afterlife. People steal, kill and rape and when they are cornered can just kill themselves. If there is no God they will not be held accountable in this life or the next. Where is the justice? The natural man cannot have a complete comprehension of justice if you rule out the afterlife. Some men get caught and are held accountable others are not held accountable. Imagine explaining justice on that basis without taking the afterlife into account. Justice demands accountability. Regarding all-powerful: One of God"s attributes is that He is everlasting. He cannot stop being everlasting. So in short, the human definition of all-powerful contradicts what God has to say about himself. To understand what it means for God to be almighty one has to look at how the Bible defines it. The Bible defines God as almighty because He can bring His will about, and if required, make everyone else to bow to His will. He has the supreme power to enforce and accomplish what He sets out to do within His being. The limitations that apply to God cannot prevent Him from accomplishing what He sets out to do. However, it is important to understand that God"s attributes and being are not contradictory but complementary. In other words, He will not set out to do something in the first place that contradicts His being. For example: God is holy, and as stated, cannot lie. It is part of His being. He cannot lie but that does not restrict Him to create because being able to tell a lie is not required to create. Trying to apply a concept in general to different specific tasks is like trying to use a printer to build a house. Do you need a shovel to print a document? It is logical that you only need certain specific attributes in order to be able to do certain things but to do something else you do not necessarily need the same attributes and they can all exist together at the same time. Pro says that an entity must be specific and if so then the entity is natural. If natural then God is part of nature and not as, "supposed to be" outside it. Pro further says that I stated that God is not beyond nature but then says God transcends nature. There is a difference between saying that God transcends nature and, like what Pro says, that supernatural is outside of existence. When I say God transcends nature I do not say that He is outside of existence. Another point is that although God may transcend nature He revealed Himself to humankind and therefore is knowable. We know God because He revealed Himself to us through the nation Israel and as the man Jesus Christ and these revelations were recorded in the Bible. So what I am saying is that being able to transcend nature in no way restricts God from entering what we consider nature. Hypothetically, if God was to hide Himself from man we would never be able to find him because He transcends nature. Philosophers waste their time trying to solve this isolated point. The philosophers theorize in vain whether we can know God or not because God ALREADY revealed himself to mankind. Ignorance may be bliss, but in the case of philosophy, it can also be a sign of stupidity. We define metaphysical as a concept. Is that therefore natural? A concept that refers to something beyond the natural as you claim? If so then the supernatural must also be natural according to your reasoning because we are able to define it. But if Supernatural is natural then "super" natural cannot be comprehended. We CAN define and comprehend supernatural therefore I do not agree with your conclusion that an entity that is defined is necessarily natural. Sometimes yes and sometimes no, it depends on the circumstance and context. You claim the extreme saying beyond is false and I hold a balanced position saying SOMETIMES not. Natural refers to what we observe, experience, taste, see and can verify in our surroundings. Something is supernatural or transcends it when it is not bound to our environment or restricted by our "natural" laws. Can you define and understand the concept of "everlasting"? Is everlasting therefore natural? Can you or anyone else verify it, being restricted by your life span? No one alive can verify the concept in their life time so how can that possibly be "natural"? Yet we experience it as a reality that exists. How is it even possible that something can just exist from everlasting? Is it only an epistemological concept? Then how are you able to experience it? You experience it because you are subjected to time everyday. I have read that you stated that the earth existed from everlasting. Can you even prove how that is possible? Can you by the scientific method recreate everlasting to prove it? Can you verify it? And if you cannot prove it by science, then how can you regard that as natural? But yet you do. Pro makes it sound that the possibility of transcending nature cannot at the same time mean that God can be in nature. Again, the statement made is too generalized. Pro applies a specific attribute to all aspects of God when it is not applicable. The Bible states God came as the man Jesus Christ and that he experienced our infirmities etc. and in all ways was tested like us. Therefore God can come into the "natural" and even experience it on our level. God loves like we do, God cares like we do, so we even share qualities with God that we define as natural. God transcends nature because of His being and also some of His attributes. God is not bound by time and space like we are. God has the power to create, we do not. God has a knowledge and understanding of things not available to us. So in that respect He clearly transcends nature. Pantheism says everything is God. God taking on the form of a specific man cannot be equated with that. I have briefly summed up what is usually contained in volumes of Theology books. So in short, note that all aspects were not covered and I realize that some of the things might provoke questions. I mention what I think is applicable to the point I am trying to make. As for the Supernatural: I have mentioned that God has knowledge of things we cannot comprehend with the natural mind because of various natural restrictions, especially time and space. So here I will give you an example of supernatural knowledge. Job 38:16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth? Here a "non existent" being (according to you) tells Job that there are springs in the sea. Not only that there are springs but that they are deep. So here is the problem. In Job"s day the technology did not exist to go down into the depths of the sea to discover springs. No natural man in that era, without the technology to assist and protect them, could have gone that deep. Natural man did not have the mental or physical capability AT THAT TIME to know this information without the aid of technology. Someone who makes a statement like that either is lying or has access to SUPERNATURAL knowledge. How will we know if it is a lie? Simply by verifying what was said. To have this supernatural knowledge implies supernatural capabilities. God did not say there "might be" springs but makes a statement of fact. Only in the 1970"s did man develop the technology to go down to the deep for THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY. Guess what they found? They found springs at the bottom of the ocean. This portion was written in the Bible and can be found in manuscripts predating the 1970"s so it is not a human invention or forgery. Not only is that an example of the supernatural but also of the existence of the being who imparted that knowledge. The knowledge imparted was truthful because it was verified and therefore the Being"s existence is credible.