The United States should vacate the Kingdom of Hawaii

Claim: You have provided no evidence of this [monarchy ruled without the full consent of the governed and makes this government just as illegitimate as the later governments] I regard all forms of government that does not derive itself from the consent of the governed as illegitimate. The queen ruled without an election by the people so I do not feel any sorrow or disagreement if she is deposed. Property requirement It is true that the queen wanted a smaller property requirement so more natives could vote for people on the legislature. But at the same time she wanted to increase her own power relative to the legislature so really she was not necessarily in favor of more power to the people [1]. Claim: Though I still don't see how this is relevant, you are acting as if the Queen was some tyrant She tried to overthrow the constitution when she could not get it amended legally. What she was trying to do was illegal and violated the power of the legislature [1]. That reduces the legitimacy she has. Car analogy The problem with this analogy is that the people of Hawaii are not property like the car is. Sure they were ruled by a Queen but that does make this rule legitimate. Today, the car (people of Hawaii) do not want independence so there is no reason to give it back to the illegitimate previous owner (the Monarchy). Claim: The Hawaiian population certainly does not regard itself as "American", nor does the Hawaiians want anything to do with the tyrants in the Kingdom of Hawaii as I have already proved. I would like my opponent to back up the claim that the population does not regard itself as American. Why was the option of independence not on the ballot? Probably because such a measure was not seriously being considered given this was at a time when 95% of those who did vote on the Statehood measure voted yes. The vote for statehood was not a valid exercise of self-determination and decolonization and has no validity in international law. We talked about this. Just because something is against international law does not mean it is wrong. I prefer to follow the laws of this nation not international law if we are to dogmatically stick to a purely legal way of thinking about morality. Any U.S. citizen who had resided in the islands for a year was allowed to vote, which included large numbers of American military servicemen and their families... Native Hawaiians would not have been allowed to vote if they refused to become American citizens. Immigrants from other countries who were not American citizens were not allowed to vote. Since Hawaii was a territory when the vote was cast, if you were an American citizen you could vote. All you needed to do was have the minimum time of residency to have a say. This system seems to be biased but it was based on the assumption that Hawaii had legitimately become a territory. You need to be an american citizen to vote and that it why it was set up the way it was. If there was so much passion against statehood why wasn't there a greater effort on the part of the natives to get the vote out and get more than just 8,000 to say no? Out of 381,000 eligible voters, only 8,000 showed up and voted no. That is only 2%. Now how many of these people also did not want us to be a territory and wanted complete independence? Even less. Hawaii was only 31% Caucasian with 23% born out of state. If they wanted independence so much, far more than 8,000 would have showed up to vote no. Claim: Again, I will provide you proof that the Hawaiians want the United States to vacate.[6] Please present the proof in text rather than just listing three references. The first reference only gives accounts of meetings of a few hundred activists who want Hawaiian independence. No polling data or proof is given that a majority want this. The second was a news article that argues for independence but nothing else. Since I was not a member of the site I could not read the article further. The third was another opinion piece that briefly mentioned meetings about independence. No evidence for majority consent is given. So far Con has done nothing but debate the history of Hawaii, make false claims without backing them up, and has agreed with me. I did not make false claims. My claims are backed up by my sources. I did more than just debate history. I also argued that there is no evidence that Hawaiians today want independence and being part of the US has benefited Hawaii. I agreed that annexing Hawaii in 1900 was the wrong thing to do but that does not mean I think we should abandon them today. Claim: I urge Con to dispute the legal status of the "State of Hawaii", if Con cannot do this, then it's clear that the United States has been illegally occupying a country and needs to vacate. I am not a lawyer. My political opinions come from morality and reason not just through legal interpretations. If there is no evidence Hawaiians want to leave, I do not care what your legal interpretation is. Hawaii stays. Hawaiian Opinion In 1959, only 8,000 people voted against statehood and if they wanted independence so much they should have gotten far more votes out of 400,000 eligible voters. 55 years later Hawaiians are even split over whether tribes there should get legal recognition. Native Hawaiians only comprise 10-20% of the population there and that is where most of the small support for independence lies (3). When I google Hawaii independence I only find a few mainstream stories about some supporters for it, and private websites advocating it. I don't see any evidence of this overwhelming support for independence or any major demonstrations. If the majority of the people in a US state really wanted independence I would expect to find a lot more news coverage or even private coverage about it but I only find information about some meetings between a few hundred people. With all the 4th of July shows and the attendance these events have I seriously doubt these people want independence (4). This next article references the 4th of July crowds (5). Their 4th of July celebrations are huge. Hawaii is #3 in military recruitment rate in the nation (6). Seriously Hawaii is just another normal state that is just as patriotic if not more. They join the army, celebrate independence day, and vote like everyone else. My opponent has provided no evidence the majority of Hawaiian's want independence and this proof would exist if the majority of them wanted it. We would be hearing a lot more about it. Counter-resolution: Let them vote My opponent's argues for withdrawal and did not mention this withdrawal being conditional on a vote in the resolution or any arguments. It is unfair to throw a state out of the union because of events 116 years ago without the consent of the people of the state. I propose to let them vote on secession. Of course this ballot will fail by a wide margin just like an independence resolution would get destroyed in Kansas. I actually talked to an Asian friend from Hawaii about this and he said that nobody wants independence and does not know of anybody who is talking about it. That is how small support for this measure really is. 1: http://www.history.com... 2: http://statehoodhawaii.org... 3: http://www.washingtontimes.com... 4: http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com... 5: http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com... 6: http://www.statemaster.com...