the usa should ban most guns and confiscate them

Pro seems to have ignored the data I provided about Australia's murder rates, which came directly from Australia's government. The actual agency responsible for the reporting and recording of such numbers shows a modest 12% decline, no matter what Slate says. What pro is actually saying, is that "Homicide by firearm" declined 50%, yes true, the murderer now chooses a different weapon, exactly the point of the pro gun side. As far as not having had another mass shooting, that is simply not true. The homicide rate of Australia dropped 37% according to the list provided, from 1.95 to 1.24. The rate in the United States has dropped 50% over the same period, from 9.4 to 4.7. [8] Again showing that gun control did nothing for it, both nations saw a decrease in the rate due primarily to increases in population. While in the United States the number of murders had dropped far faster than the same numbers for Australia. Even conceding a higher rate of mass killings in Australia, we still find that mass killings were an actual problem in Australia, where they accounted for full percentages of the total murder rate. Something that is not true in the United States, where less than 1% of all murder victims are mass killing victims. Pro again makes the argument that more guns cause more death, but a look at the statistics simply doesn't bear that idea out. As I provided above, lists of states vs murder rates shows a negative correlation between guns and murder, that is more guns equal less murders. Pro's next argument is to make up numbers rather than attack the data, you don't get to establish that because you don't like a source it is not credible, show me why it isn't credible or is it that you can't? A run down of the numbers, done on the progun sources linked above [1,2] shows that the number isn't 30 times. At best you could count 3 times. Counting suicides as gun deaths for the purposes of legislation is outright deceptive. Suicide has many causes, and the nations with the highest suicide rates in the world have near total gun bans. After removal of suicides the Kellermann studies get you only a 2.7 : 1 ratio, and that is before removing criminality from the information, that is counting for the fact that criminals with guns are more likely to murder than non-criminals with guns. Even the VPC whose total running numbers track murders from 2007 with guns, shows that in the last 8 years less than 100 murders per year, or less than 1%, are carried out by legal gun owners.[13] I never cited Kleck, that study is flawed, however the CDC does consider it for its calculations, but even ignoring those numbers, the CDC arrived at more than 500,000 DGUs per year. And here we go again, when faced with data and facts, pro, like most anti-gun people, turns to fine tuned data to show their point. Let me make this clear, even in your own data you fail to notice a key point. Your data shows that 'Firearm related deaths' drop, sure. I concede that point. However much like what happened in Australia, Knife related deaths go up. Fist related deaths go up, baseball related deaths go up. You are not actually stopping the murders, you are simply moving them from one column on a report to another and trying to claim victory. So throw out your single column of data, and look at all the homicide columns. When you do that your graphs change. The question to Pro is this, do you only care about gun deaths? If so then sure, ban guns and end gun deaths, whatever. But if we are talking about actually reducing murders, then we must look at all the data, not just a single column of homicide data, and decide from there what works best. In the UK and Australia, we see that murders simply moved from one column to another, that there are now more knife murders and less gun murders, but that the number of murders has practically remained flat. In the US we have allowed more guns, and seen a drop in the number as well as rate of murders. My question to you is simple, do you care about all victims of violence, or only those that fit a specific type of weapon? It can be shown that other violent crime types actually increase after gun bans. [13] http://concealedcarrykillers.org...