Evidence of God is Strong

Thanks for the debate Pro, I hope you'll take my criticisms of your approach to posting your arguments. Stick to the relevant things, and, if you're going to quote the bible, then please explain the link for each quote or else it all seems irrelevant. Let's finish this. *FINAL REBUTTALS*I had originally asked Pro why we should consider the bible authoritative on matters of the universe or morality, and, as far as I can tell, the only reason Pro provided was that the bible was prophetic. Pro's problems here are two-fold.1. Accurate prophecy was never demonstrated by Pro, instead, Pro took bible quotes and retrofitted post-biblical events/Islam/recent terror attacks without showing how these quotes exclusively indicate any of those concepts; it was all very unclear.2. Even if these concepts were accurately predicted, the predictions indicate NOTHING about the origins of the universe or the ultimate source of moral authority, so we shouldn't be obligated to commit an association fallacy that since the bible predicted x, it's therefore also correct about/authoritative on y. Pro just never gave us any reason to think that his god created the universe/is a morality source or that we should buy what the bible's selling us. Pro asked about space:"It is eternal and never ends, yet it had a beginning? "My response:I never said space was eternal, I said that space definitely had a beginning and that space may keep on expanding forever. No contradiction here. Pro reasons:"If time did not exist, nothing would have ever happened including time itself. "My response:Time did not exist when there was no universe, but zero energy did. From an unstable zero energy state, time was expressed when a virtual particle avoided annihilation. Pro continues:"Time did not exist, but one day "poof", there was time. Are we trying to prove creationism with this response? "My response:Time is contingent on space, and space is the position of or the distance between STATIVE matter. At one point, there was no stative matter, instead it fluctuated in and out of existence in zero energy quantum fluctuations. Once matter was stative though, there was then stative space and therefore stative time. Unstable zero energy-->stative energy-->stative time. Pro reasons further:"If you are the creator of time, time is meaningless in how you do anything. "My response:Here's the deep structure of Pro's reasoning:If you are the entity that used a time-based process to bring about the existence of time, time is meaningless in how you do anything. A creator MUST precede their creation and precedence is impossible without stative time. .. you never got to this Pro. Pro tells how god created the universe sans time:"The same way nothing created the universe without time in Con's model. "My response:Oh really? I didn't see anywhere in Pro's cornucopia of bible quotes any mention of fluctuating variables expressing stative matter/energy/space/time. Nothing didn't *create* anything, rather, nothing is unstable and cannot remain, thus something (energy) is guaranteed without any creation necessary. Origin and creation are simply not the same terms. Pro responds to god's allowance of atrocities:"If you are looking at infinite amounts of possibilities and your mind runs at the highest conceivable speed, you can look at all kinds of possibilities, see the final result of all of these possibilities, and pick the one that finishes well or "best". "My response:Oh, so innocent babies being born with malaria only to suffer and die was the best pick? So, that's the best that god can do, huh Pro? God's best sucks. Pro asks:"Are you morally bound to let it play out knowing it turns out well, or are you morally bound to stop it because there are dark colors in between? "My response:You are morally bound to make everything perfect because you have every ability to do so, therefore if there are dark colors in between, you've created them, knew they would happen, chose them, and did nothing to stop atrocities. .. nothing. Pro explains how god rules the universe:"Apparently in similar fashion to how a computer programmer rulers the virtual worlds he creates. "My response:And the bible quote you provided that showed this is. .. ?Non existent. Similar to the evidence for your purported god. Pro tells us why we should buy what the bible's selling:"Jesus was prophesied in the Old Testament, fulfilled it in the New Testament"My response:You mean to say that the authors of the new testament retrofitted prophecies from a book with which they were largely familiar. Pro continues:"Jesus was claimed to have raised the dead and even raised from the dead Himself"My response:I was claimed to have made things fly and even fly myself in the classroom where I teach. .. I still didn't create the universe. Pro continues:"Jesus had command of the weather, healed the blind, lame, deaf, crippled, put a severed ear back on a Roman soldier's head and back to working order"My response:Really? Jesus was able to fix the problems his father created? Great. Now if only Jesus could create the universe, then we'd have some strong evidence, but nope. Pro finishes:"Jesus predicted the future with unbelievable confidence that then came true. .. and. .. He claimed to be God in the flesh. "My response:Thus ends the list of evidence-less claims by Pro, they remain mere assertions, AND, even if they were true, do not indicate the creation of the universe or the source of ALL moral authority. I reject that a creator of the universe exists, because without a universe, there is no space, therefore there is no time, and temporal processes like creation that necessitate precedence and series of events are impossible without time. No time, no creation, no creator, no god. Pro never got to this, and one can vote Con here. Pro also never showed why we should consider the bible authoritative for any other reason than the bible. We were never shown ANY of the bible's authoritativeness on the origin of the universe or source of moral authority. Thanks Pro for the debate, but please stop quoting so much scripture. Evidence is usually strongest when there's more than one source to back it up.