Morality

So all the questions I put forth weren't answered. At least they were not answered in a sense that was clear. Reasoning of asking those questions was to get clarity and understanding . Which a lot of the argument presented from the pro side remains unclear . Statements from the pro side :"I have already explained "Morality stems from nature, and flourishes in human nature".I have already explained that there is nothing directly immoral or moral, but that any direct subject can be moral or immoral {i.e. kindness can be immoral; suicide can be moral}."If it was explained , it wasn't too clear . I still don't know where is the criteria coming from about this directly immoral or moral protocol . I don't know how this is being figured except that apparently it's just an idea of yours. If it is , then just indicate so. That's what I mean by subjective and it doesn't seem like you comprehend that word, let alone the word relative or relativity . Then it appears like the context is switched up when using these words when talking about people and being that they can't choose an effect or result. So you don't see how subjectivity fits. They choose a cause or something to that degree and not the effect . Be careful not to confuse the contexts on what people are saying and use effort to comprehend . A lot of this feedback has confused what I have stated and things I never stated . Now in round 2 it was emphasized that the meaning of what YOU meant when you stated " morality stems from nature , and flourishes from human nature" is that we don't choose the seeds we have but are in control to support them or in how they grow, etc. somewhere along that route. Again , this has not been EXPLAINED on how you come to this conclusion . It was not verified at least to me on why or how this came to be . The statement " reap what you sew" is known to me best as one of the biblical adages . Everything that has been stated by you is nothing more than a claim yet to be backed up by anything other than what you say it is . It's nothing other than what the pro side claims it to be . Being that this is a "be all end all" round , there really is no point for further questioning . The response was or is , morality stems from nature . I don't know how or why that is . Just some idea that an individual is expressing . Again as it was brought up before about the purposes of humans which I still don't know your take on or what you believe , but moving on , here is the breakdown. The right and wrong categories tie in with some sort of purpose or else how would right and wrong be identified? (Rhetorical question) . I went to explaining how I arrive at my conclusions. I don't think any of that was examined by the opposing side.From the pro side : "species comes before the individual where morality is concerned. If an action of yours stupid for the species, it's an evil action.It doesn't matter what each individual thinks is good and evil when coming to the conclusion "what's good and evil for humanity?", but what is evil for our survival. Whether an individual does or does not care about the survival of our species, doesn't matter."NONE of this is explicated to how this is or why this is in mankind. These are flat statements about good and evil functioning this way or that way . No explaining on how something is an evil action , on how it's stupid or non-intelligent behavior and how it's derived to be so . You say it doesn't matter what each individual thinks , then I don't see where relativity comes in at. Relative means depending on another for a cause to get an effect . If someone has their own idea of right and wrong and is deciding what to be done or not to be done according to their ideas, best believe their thoughts matter . Their thoughts weigh in heavy . That's why it's reiterated to expound these points more in depth. Maybe the confusion is in what your meaning when using these words to communicate . In conclusion , again I take the position that fundamental morality , not the morality that people pick and choose over , but morality itself is not relative . Meaning TRUE good and bad, TRUE right and wrong don't change from person to person outside of their minds at least . There is an order to things that carry on and fulfill a purpose . Everywhere one may travel in the known universe there is universal law and principle to keep everything going as it is . What other use is there besides the use that's in place.