in a fight between pain(nagato) vs madara, pain would win

"1-8 are not completely usless its true that madara could phase through but if madara were to continually phase through he would run out of chakra quite fast and wouldnt be able to attack and if he did there are 6 or more eyes watching in every direction that would notice if madara solidified to make a move" Tell me, where did you get the information that Madara's special jutsu takes up any chakra whatsoever? You are only speculating without any type of evidence. Madara has used this jutsu multiple times, and has not shown any fatigue from it whatsoever. "1) as i said above there are 6 or more eyes looking in every direction that can see chakra and so the moment that he opens the rifft to come back to this dimension there would be chakra embembed in it and therefore letting pain know where he would strike next" 1st Counterargument. We don't actually know how advanced Madara's Sharingan is, and we do know precisely what Nagato's can do. He automatically gets an affinity for every chakra type, barring the elemental mixes. He can use the six paths the Sage of the Six Paths did, and their abilities cannot actually stop Madara's. Secondly,we do know that Nagato cannot see chakra in his opponent's movements, like the Sharingan can. If he could, he would've been able to dodge Jiraiya's attacks for the most part, and none of his bodies would've been incapacitated by Jiraiya. 2nd Counterargument. As I said before, we have no idea how advanced Madara's Sharingan is. We have no idea how far his space-time manipulation has become. In fact, your argument is absolutely worthless because you say that you know exactly how it works. You don't. No where in the Manga is there a full description of how it works,only mere assumptions and speculations. Aside from all those holes in your first argument, and the fact we already have a full description of the Rinnegan's abilities, not once is it mentioned that the Rinnegan can see chakra. From this, we can ascertain that Nagato would not know where Madara was attacking from. And even if Pein did know where Madara is coming from, he could not react quick enough to stop it. In fact, Minato, the Yondaime Hokage, who is professed to have the fastest reflexes in the world, was only saved from Madara's vortex by using his Hiraishin no jutsu. Without it, he would've died. "2) no one has ever found pains feeble body except for naruto (who was lucky) and so therefore madara's chances of finding the true pain are very very slim also madara most likley wont know that there is even a real pain this took even jiriya the whole battle to figure out and he has had more knowledge with the rinnegan considering he had pain as his student" Madara, from the very start, has been manipulating Nagato. He had already planned out everything, using Nagato's obsession for peace as a promise to end all war. From this, it is easy to conclude that Madara would know every single secret about Akatsuki's members. I mean, if he can manipulate the leader of the most dangerous mercernary group from the start, it's not too hard to know the locations of said members. And besides, Jiraiya knew Nagato for a year, tops. At this point, he didn't really know anything about the Rinnegan, aside from who last possessed it. He didn't even know that Pein could make multiple bodies. "3) rinnegan are the most powerful ocular jutsu and so therefore mangekyo sharingan has no power over the rinnegan" Wow, what a shoddy argument. I'd to see how a severely degraded Rinnegan is somehow superior to the most complex Sharingan in the world. I'd love to see how multiple bodies and affinities for six elements is somehow greater than being able to kill your opponent by giving them a full body blow-job, instantenous teleportation, hellfire that burns for a week, and an inpenetrable skeleton that protects the user from anything and everything. That that's only stuff we know from Madara. Do you realize how many Mangekyo's Madara has taken? He has the accumulation of perhaps several hundred Mangekyo's stored within his eyes. And Pein has a watered down Rinnegan. Please show me how Madara would lose. Please tell me how. Character allegations mean nothing. No one in the Narutoverse apparently realizes how severely degraded the Rinnegan has gotten since its last user, and how that last user can't control it that well in the first place. "yes he could of but if he was lying why wouldnt he just kill pain and start leading the akatasuzki and put moon's eye plan into action beacuse he didnt, it goes show that pain's abilities were highly respected by madara and most likely feared" Because he needed someone to be the Jinchuuriki of the Gedo Mazo. It says it quite clearly. Since Pein died, Madara has admitted that he need Sasuke to replace Pein. The opener of the Gedo Mazo dies, and only very powerful people would be able to harness it. That is why he needed Pein, and needs Sasuke. "let me quote PRETTY MUCH and im not quite sure what you mean by anything but if it means any technique that is in fact incorrect beacuse the only one chakra type: earth" I don't even know what you mean. Your grammar is atrocious. "Arguments: Pro. Pain is a game breaker he is considerd to be a god." Correction:Pein considers himself a god. "The Rinnegan's abilities are largely unknown," Not really. "but it did permit the user to use all types of elemental chakra, and allowed Nagato to master every technique Jiraiya taught him at the age of ten." This means? All it means is that Nagato had the Rinnegan, and he's powerful. "According to Ibiki, the Rinnegan allows Nagato to use any technique he wishes." Aside from all creator-specific techniques, bloodlines, kekkai genkai, and element mixture combos. My opponent has not made one valid argument giving any reason why Pein would win.