Super Smash Brothers Melee is a better competitive fighter than Super Smash Brothers 4.

I thank Con for his argument, and will proceed to give my rebuttals and counter arguments.1. Fight ViabilityCon makes an interesting point here, but it is not without it's flaws, which I will point out. Initially, Con is entirely correct in his statement that top tier characters share a speed of trait, however, that is incorrect with many of them. Let's take a look at the tier list.http://memberfiles.freewebs.com...Tiers number one and two are indeed Fox and Falco. While it's true that Fox is indeed quick on his feet as well as in the air, the character below him in the tier list, Falco, is actually not nearly as fast as Fox. In fact, coming from my own educated Melee standpoint, Falco's speed is one of his primary weaknesses, and other only reason he is top tier with that speed is the fact that he has an amazing combo game and what is considered by many to be the best projectile in the game. The character directly after, Jigglypuff, is also not speedy and quick, and relies more on reads and punishes to win. Hungrybox himself has been quoted as saying that he had to get good with gimmicks because his fingers aren't fast enough to perform advanced tech. Coming in sixth on the tier list? Peach. A character who's dash speed is roughly equivalent to Falco's own, if not a little faster, relies not on speed, but her spacing with turnips and her combo game. Ninth on the tier list we have Ice Climbers, a duo of characters that would not be so high on the tier list were it not for the technique of wobbling, in which the Ice Climbers grab the opponent and perform a down-tilt move, essentially locking the opponent in hitstun which can lead immediately to death, in addition to this, during EVO of this year, an Ice Climbers player found himself in to top 32 players of the entire event, an event, I might add, that had over 2000 participants, further disproving Con's argument that the top tiers are there for speed when a duo of characters that relies solely on grabbing to win can make it that far. To take this even farther, during the aforementioned EVO, a Samus player, number 11 on the tier list, found himself in TOP 8 of the ENTIRE tournament, and while that may seem like a small deal, please remember that Con stressed the idea of a tier list and it's importance as well as speed, while Samus, a character whose only good thing is the recovery, landed in Top 8 during an event with the best players in the world. Furthermore, my opponent says that you are restricted to choosing top tiers, but while I have already disproved that, I will also use Kage and Bizzaro Flame as examples that this is untrue, as they enjoy the game immensely why using Ganondorf.And then I've already mentioned the saying, "Any skilled Roy can beat a Fox." That's tier 19 beating tier 1.2. On the informational wallMy opponent makes the point that 2 of the top 6 players in the world right now are concerned with arthritis-like symptoms in their hands, which I mentioned just previously that the need to play Fox isn't as high as con would have you all believe. I will recycle my example with Hungrybox and how he has been a top player for YEARS, in ADDITION to being one of the most consistent of them all. An even better example further back is Mang0 himself who played Jigglypuff when he was first starting the game absolutely DESTROYING the top player of the time, Mew2King who was using Marth, not Fox. In fact, if you ever go back and look at players who have gone on massive winning spree's without having a response, the two most notable in the history of smash played almost exclusively Marth during their time, again, Not Fox. On the topic of Con saying you don't need to know much besides the fundamentals and combos, I also say this is incorrect, especially since, as I've mentioned before, Smash 4 has almost no true combos, and as I mentioned before, this slows gameplay even more due to the fact that the game is no longer an entertaining clash of players, but more a contest of who will get hit less and who will read a person more, which is exciting to begin with, but after a while quickly loses it's luster.3. On PatienceMy counter-argument here will also slightly go hand-in-hand with mentioning that Melee is fun because it's fast and fun to watch and not just watching two or four people hit another and run away. Yes, I admit that Smash 4 does emphasize patience over aggression, but the issue arises that Smash 4 is a game that heavily rewards defensive play, and as such, forces players to stay in a passive mind set when playing. This can lead to long games that neither the players nor spectators want to watch. The game DOES put extra focus on predicting your opponent and punishing them for it, but it makes no difference when both players are predicting each other, which results in them just running forward and then jumping backwards, the limits to this are stretched so far sometimes that even a match timer, which runs for 5 minutes in length, have been stalled out by a player unwilling to give up an advantage, in fact, it's worth mentioning that this has happened more in the year Smash 4 has been out than in the 14 that Melee has been out, whereas with Melee, there is indeed some level of patience there with mind games and reading, but then you also get to see the awesome combo and punish that follows, which is something that won't happen in Smash 4 because there ARE no good combos to punish with that don't last for more than 2 hits. If you need any more proof that a crowd enjoys a beat-down more than a timer stall, watch any EVO match for both games and you'll see just how much louder the Melee crowd will get. Of course, that may just be because the Melee crowd is bigger, since many others consider it a better game overall. And to counter Con's specific sentence, he says, "In Sm4sh, seeing as how there aren't many ATs, people don't focus there, and instead focus on patience and waiting for the right time to attack." Con mentions later in his argument the existence of WiFi battles, what he fails to mention is that in many of these battles, you will usually either be paired against a person who is far better, or far worse, and even than, in many cases the game is just trying to attack, only for it to be shielded against, and then both players resetting, where it starts all over again.4. On constant patches.Con is right in saying that Smash 4 does have more patches, but he is wrong in saying that Melee has received none. Melee actually has three different versions, in order, they are 1.0.0, 1.0.1, and 1.0.2. Another proof of this is in the tier lists for the two different regions of Melee. While the PAL version [1] is version 1.0.2, the NTSC version [2] is 1.0.0. Another thing worth noting that Con fails to mention is this section is that Melee recently gained Nintendo's support around the time that Smash 4 came out, evidence for this is that Nintendo helped to Sponsor Melee and Smash 4 at Apex as well as EVO this year for both games.5. Online playThis will likely be my favorite section in my response this time for a very good reason.While it is very true that Melee has only netplay to substitute for online play, it's also true that Smash 4's online leaves very much to be desired. Nintendo made online play for Smash 4 be from player to player instead of having a server based somewhere for players to connect too. This can result in terrible connections and laggy fights, making players angry over the game because of reasons like some sort of lag. Smash 4 also has no balancing mechanics, as mentioned before in my arguments, you are highly likely to run into a player who is either far better of far worse than yourself, with minimal chance of running into an equally skilled player, and even then, what's to stop the match from lagging out or becoming unplayable for some reason? While Melee has only netplay, which also has all of these issues, Melee was also not meant to be played online, while Smash 4 WAS, and even though it was made for online, it still has these issues. Also, earlier, I mentioned the fact that Melee has been around for 14 years vs the single year of Smash 4, yet Con states that the online, skill based play is crucial to a long life of a game, I disagree. Brawl had terrible online play but still kept a growing community for years, and in fact, still does, just by watching the recent Brawl matches on VGBootCamp. In addition to that, Melee has no real online besides netplay, and it's been one of the top competitive games for years. Another competitive game that gets a lot of attention is Project M, which ALSO has no way of getting online since Nintendo shut down WiFi services for the Wii. It is the strong opinion of Pro that online is, in fact, not needed for a game's longevity, espicially in fighter games where matches are much more intense in face to face, especially when one considers the sociological effects to the player to have a real environment of people like themselves to play with versus an almost strictly online community. Seeing as how I only have about 600 character left, I can say no more in this post. I give it over to Con and wish him luck in his next response.1- http://suroka.free.fr...2- http://memberfiles.freewebs.com...