Rom 10:9-10 teaches Lordship salvation

rules of this debate. Anyone who accepts this debate must answer the questions given by the opponent. and failure to do so forfeits the round to the one who asked the question. Let it be understood that if a question will be answered in another round, that it must be so stated as such, and the answer in that round must be identified as the answer to that particular question. No more then 3 questions may asked per round. If this is agreed to let us began. I have heard this passage used time and time again "trying to defeat the teaching (found in the bible) that baptism is Necessary for salvation. Yet they have taken this passage out of context. Rom. 10:9-10 is not saying that one does not have to be baptized in order to be saved, Nor is it saying that all one has to do is believe in the heart and confess from the mouth and they will be saved. I have heard this Calvinistic teaching for years, and in this debate I will set the record straight. John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life" Notice that no where in this verse does it talk about confession, or repentance, as well as being baptized. Yet many hang their entire souls destiny on that verse. There will be 5 rules of bible interpretation that i will use. 1st. Rule of bible interpretation is: that all verses on the same topic must be considered before one draws a conclusion as to what the bible teaches concerning that topic. Thus Luke 13:3 "except you repent, you will all like wise perish." is just as valid a verse concerning salvation as John 3:16. neither cancels the other out. 2nd rule of bible interpretation is: Keep every verse in context with the passage around it. Thus I submit that Romans 10:9-10 cannot be understood unless chapters 9-11. are taken into account.. 3th rule is: "the rules of language apply." Thus we need to really dig to find what this passage means. 4th rule is: What did the original audience understand when they heard those words? 5th rule the bible harmonizes with itself, so any concluesion other wise is a wrong concluesion we need to understand as much as possible who they were and what were the circumstances that promoted the writing of the letter to them. So who is Paul writing to in Chapter 10? to answer this question lets read: 9:1-5 1 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen a according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen Who were Paul's country in the flesh as verse 2 identifies? They were the Jews, Israelites according to the flesh. Christ was a Jew, and they were his kinsmen according to the flesh. So I submit that this passage from Romans Chapter 9-11 are written to Jews. In this part of the text it is written to unsaved Jews. Now the whole letter according to Rom. 1:7 "To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." Thus we know that it is addressed to the Church at Rome, but Paul is talking to his fellow Jewish Christians, and letting them know that he has a deep love for the Jews who are not saved. This starts the whole direction of thoughts in the next 3 chapters. it is also note worthy to bring up at this point that Paul quotes from the old testament no less then 12 verses. 5 verses from the Pentateuch and 7 from the prophetical books. Jews understood those scriptures well for they were given to them. therefore without a doubt we see this passage directed toward the Jewish Christians. Next we are going to follow the passages that are around Chapter 10:9-10, both before and after this passage. This will take the rest of this round and most of the next round. Rom. 9:6-12, " But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, "In Isaac your seed shall be called." 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise: "At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son." 10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger." Notice Paul is telling them that not every seed of Abraham are Israel. think about it, Esau is a seed of Abraham, but not counted as Israel, for they were Edomites. Defining it more closely those from the seed of Jacob came the children of promise. Yet God Chose the seed not on its merit, but because he is God and he answers to no man. Paul would go on and say in verse 16 "So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy." Today God chose the church as the elect, not Jews born physically the seed of Abraham. lets skip to verse 27 "Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:"Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, The remnant will be saved." It was never intended for all Israel to be saved, but only a remnant. That remnant was the ones who would leave the Jewish faith and submit unto Christ. again in verses 29-32, And as Isaiah said before: "Unless the Lord of Sabaoth l had left us a seed, We would have become like Sodom, And we would have been made like Gomorrah." 30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. o For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. therefore only those who pursue righteousness by faith will be saved. now this to the Jew was a stumbling stone. we will look at that thought in greater detail in my next post. So in context we see Paul talking to the Jews who were Christians explaining why they were of the elect, and their countrymen were not. it is in this setting that we go to Chapter 10:1-4,"Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." there are 5 things against the Jew. 1. They have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 2. They Are ignorant of God's righteousness 3. They seek to establish their own according to the Law. 4. They have not submitted to God's righteousness. 5. They have not accepted that the law has ended for the believers in Christ. Paul is explaining to the Jews who had become Christians why Israel according to the flesh would not be saved. now lets skip down to verse. 16-17," 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" I 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Notice the word obeyed in verse 16 and believe are used interchangeable. who is game??? come on I am going to show you water and the gospe