The Bible Qualifies as a Collection of Fairy Tales - E

>> "In debate, you begin with one definition. You can not provide multiple definitions later in the round to prove that no definition is correct." Therefore, we shall use the definition I provided in the first round. The source is Dictionary.com. Simply because I did not cite a source does not mean it is an invalid definition. Furthermore My opponent accepted this debate knowing full well the criteria upon which the argument was based. >> "Furthermore, he tries to reiterate later on that a fairy tale may just be a story with incredible content. Is a biography of Martin Luther King Jr. a fairy tale because it has incredible content?" My dear opponent seems to be confused about the definitions of incredible. The word can mean "so extraordinary as to seem impossible," which is the kind of incredible we see in the story of MLK. It can ALSO mean "not credible, hard to believe, or unbelievable," which is the kind of incredible we see in the Bible (Dictionary.com). **************************** 1. Giants The Jewish cubit was about 16.75 inches, making Goliath about 9 feet tall (http://en.wikipedia.org...; 1 Sam 17:4). However, this is clearly not the only case of Giants in the Bible. In Numbers 13:33, the Israelites come across some giants that are described as being so tall that they "were in [the Israelites'] own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight." These giants were clearly not simply tall men. Deuteronomy 3:11 describes a descendant of the giants as being 9 cubits, or more than 12 feet... 2. Dragons My opponent gives a semantic argument for this point, so I shall respond in kind. When the Bible references dragons, it uses the Hebrew word "tannin," which means literally "sea or land monster." However, there are words in Hebrew for snake, serpent, small lizard, great lizard, and even Basilisk (http://www.searchgodsword.org...). The use of "tannin" indicates that this creature was not of normal origin. 3. Cockatrices Isa 14:29b reads "out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent." This does not sound like an adder, viper, or asp to me, unless these snakes commonly lay flying, fire-breathing serpents. 4. Unicorns. Actually, my opponent is correct on this point, which I discovered after starting the debate. The Hebrew word used in the verses is "re'em," the plural of "rimu," a type of ox... I left it in here just in case... 5. Cheldean's Horses What do you mean "what about them is mythical??" A normal equine can run about 30 miles an hour over distance. A leopard can run about 20% (23%) faster than a horse. On top of that, horses' temperaments are not similar to those of wolves - they are far calmer. And furthermore, they do not fly (http://en.wikipedia.org...; http://en.wikipedia.org...). The Bible describes these beasts as "swifter than the leopards, and are more fierce than the evening wolves... they shall fly as the eagle that hasteth to eat." 6. Sorcers/Witches In 1 Samuel, the Bible uses the word "qecem" meaning divination, divine sentence, and witchcraft. Also, in Exodus and Deuteronomy, the word "kashaph" is used, meaning "to whisper a spell." A similar word, "Kesheph" is used in Kings, Micah, and Nahum - it means "magic, sorcery, witchcraft." When this concept appears in Greek, it is a derivative of mage (whose English meaning is clear), or "anan," meaning "a covert practice" (http://www.steveholder.com...). None of these words reference the use of Satan's power. The use or practice of divination, spells, sorcery, or witchcraft inherently requires a being with magical properties. 7. Other Gods My opponent states that the Bible never says the false gods are real. However, if they are not real, then why is the Judeo-Christian god a jealous god, and why does he prohibit the worship of the other gods? Furthermore, the Bible also never says that the other gods to NOT exist. It simply calls them "false" gods because the writers of the bible believe that only their god is the "true" god. 8. The Creation of Earth/Man Your "fossil" is a fake - http://gumbythecat.blogspot.com... - another one for good measure ( http://timpanogos.wordpress.com... ) This actually doesn't surprise me, because it's obviously a fake looking at the picture of it in YOUR link - the print is far too perfectly formed, and besides, Acrocanthosaurus has CLAWS on it's feet. Oh, and the "scientist" who analyzed it - "Dr" Carl Baugh - well... he has no doctorate (http://paleo.cc...) 9. The Temptation My opponent asks why two people are not a genetically viable population. Aside from the genetic problems inherent to inbreeding, this would be incest, punishable by death in the Bible. Also, the advised minimum population level for a viable society is around 150 (http://answers.google.com...) - but this is not for long-term viability. The long-term viability threshold is upwards of 10,000 (http://alfin2100.blogspot.com...). 10. Life Spans My opponent clearly does not understand life span OR the chart in the link. Biblical characters (except Adam) would have lived in the Bronze or Classical ages, where the life span was between 18 and 30 years. For Noah to exceed the average life span by a factor of TWENTY is clearly incredible content. 11. Plagues Ct30 does nothing to address the issue of probability in the consecutive plagues. The proximity of these plagues renders them highly suspicious and unbelievable - incredible characteristics common to fairy tales. Furthermore, the plague of blood applied to water in streams, rivers, ponds, pools of water, "in vessels of wood, and in vessels of stone" (Exo 7:19). So unless the Egyptians were peeing EVERYWHERE... even in their vessels of wood and stone... that bacteria could not have been the cause of the plague. 12. The Red Sea My opponent holds that a geographical split could have held back the waters, regardless of the fact that there would be both evidence of this split today, and a split would create a fissure that the water would sink into... 13. Jonah & the Fish If the whale did not know what it had eaten, it would have no inclination to spit it out, OR reason to return to a specific place to do so. ******************** Responses: >> "I will concede that he can also win by proving the creatures are magical" See the entire first section of the debate, especially for sorcerers, where the Hebrew word used is for "magic." >> "I have shown earlier that a fairy tale can not simply be a fairy tale because of incredible content." False - you have simply disputed the original definition in the debate. An incredible or unbelievable tale qualifies as a fairy tale. Most Biblical stories are certainly unbelievable to anyone who thinks about them rationally. >> "(Joshua 17: 15-16)" This is from a different book of the Bible. Also, it says nothing about ordination by God - just that the people of Joshua can't fight chariots. >> Hebrews 6:18 Was there some part of "impossible to lie" that you didn't understand?? >> "When God sent Jesus to Earth, he stripped him of some of his powers." Then how did he heal the sick and dying? Oh... I guess God only stripped him of omnipotence... RIIIIGHT... *********************** A recap: All animals excepting Unicorns are still valid magical creatures, especially the sorcerers (plural) in the bible that are described IN HEBREW as using magic. All stories remain incredible and unbelievable. The burden of proof is not to show impossibility, but rather implausibility, incredibility, or unbelieveability. Apologies for being short - lack of characters.