Atheism or Theism

Contention 1: Extraordinary claims; extraordinary evidence. 1. If a claim is extraordinary, then in the absence of extraordinarily strong evidence in its favor, the claim may be considered false. 2. The claim that a god exists is an extraordinary claim. 3. Therefore, in the absence of extraordinarily strong evidence in its favor, the claim that a god exists may be considered false. 4. There is no extraordinarily strong evidence for the claim that a god exists. 5. Therefore, the claim that a god exists may be considered false. In order to understand this argument, we need to define an extraordinary claim. I will define an extraordinary claim as: A claim that contradicts accepted physical laws or our common sense, everyday experiences of the world.[2] So, the question is, ‘Is God an extraordinary claim?” I contend to you that indeed, it is. Let’s take a look at this chart that I have drawn up. God Man Holy Unholy All-knowing Limited knowledge Perfect Imperfect Immortal Mortal All-loving Evil Invisible Visible Just Unjust As one can see from this chart, God has attributes much different than man; indeed, God is incomprehensible compared to man.[3] Premise 3 states, “Therefore, in the absence of extraordinarily strong evidence in its favor, the claim that a god exists may be considered false.” We now need to ask ourselves two questions: 1) Why is one justified in rejecting extraordinary claims in the absence of extraordinary evidence? 2) What is the basis of extraordinary evidence? Allow me to give you the following propositions and ask yourself “which one do you immediately reject, and why?” 1) I am a member of Facebook, 2) I won the multi-million dollar lottery, and 3) I own a transportation mechanism that transports you from point A to point B in under 1 second. Which one do you immediately reject without further ado, and why? If you guessed point 3, you would be correct—and totally justified in rejecting proposition 3. Allow me to explain why. According to Facebook stats, Facbeook currently have 350,000,000 members [4] hence, to claim that I am a member of Facebook is not unheard of, nor is it an extraordinary claim. Claim 2 is certainly more extraordinary than the first; however, people have won the lottery before so it is not unheard of—in order for one to accept this claim, one may need to look at just my lottery ticket, or the numbers on TV. However, claim 3 is quite different. In order to accept claim 3 with just my word, you will have to: 1) Change your current views on the technology of today, 2) Change your views on how people transport from point A to point B, and 3) Change your perspective on the person making such a ridiculous claim (and ridiculous is quite appropriate). So, you see, extraordinary claims do require extraordinary evidence. So, what type of evidence is there for God? I contend that there is no evidence; it will be my partner's burden to prove so. In the words of Keith Augustine: "God, as conceived by the major religions, does not exist. I hold this neither dogmatically, nor as an article of faith. Rather, I think the existence of the Judeo-Christian/Islamic God is as improbable as the existence of Zeus and the plethora of Olympian gods. I am simply more consistent in my skepticism. I have the same amount of evidence for the existence of Yahweh, Jehovah, or Allah as I have for Zeus--none." [5] How does this cast doubt on God's existence? Consider: God wants us to "love him maximally"; and if that were to be the case, one would need to know for a fact that God exists (or at least have extraordinary evidence to prove that He exists). One cannot "love a being maximally" that does not exist or is hidden. Contention 2: God is incoherent 1. Anything with contradictory attributes cannot exist.2. God has contradictory attributes.3. Therefore, God cannot exist.[6] When I say that a being's attributes are contradictory, I mean much more than strange or mysterious, but that they are logically incompatible. I am sorry to say, but my partner has helped me tremendously in this debate. If God is ineffable, and incomprehensible, then this seems to contradict the other attributes; for how can the attributes of God be known if He is ineffable and incomprehensible? Consider:1. If God cannot be known or understood, then his attributes cannot be known.2. God cannot be known and understood.3. Therefore, his attribues cannot be known. According to my partner, God is most loving (agape); and also points out that he "hates all sin and by no means clear the guilty." (emphasis mine). Agape according to Paul is "paitent, kind, doesn't envy, doesn't boast, not proud, doesn't dishonor otehrs, not self- seeking, is not easily angered, and keeps no record of wrong..." (1 Corinthians 13:4-7, NIV). According to the Greek language, the word agape is the exact word used to describe God: "God IS agape." Therefore, he CANNOT keep any record of wrong, yet he "by no means clear the guilty'? Finally, my partner contradicts himself by saying that God is both merciful and just. Matt Slick of CARM points out: "God is holy and righteous and if he didn't carry a punishment for sins, he would be allowing evil to exist without consequence. The result would be, essentially, to condone evil, and since God cannot do that, His justice requires that a proper punishment be incurred for each sin." [7] Because of this fact, it is absolutely impossible for God to be both merciful and just. To conclude: "The characteristics of God as supplied by Christian theologians are nothing more than meaningless and contradictory concepts wrapped in theological garp. [8] Thank you, I look forward to your arguments. Bibliography 1. This argument was formulated in the Krueger-McHugh Debate: Theism or Atheism (2003)http://www.infidels.org......... 2. The definition was also given in the debate above. 3.Indeed, this is the part where St. Alsen given his Ontological argument. See http://www.equip.org... God and an explanation of God’s incomprehensible. I will deal with the Ontological Argument in chapter 3. 4. Stats from http://www.facebook.com......... 5. http://www.infidels.org......; 6. http://www.infidels.org...;7. Slick, Matt. "How Just is the God of Islam?" http://carm.org...;8. Tobin, Paul. "The Rejection of Pascal's Wager."