A believer in liberty should be against a Palestinian state

"This is a debate topic much older than either of us... I don't want to get personal but intuition tells me that you are asking a question in the that debate...This is a very very old contradiction in modern terms there are views that stretch the gambit from the Extreme Collectivist that believes the individual has no rights to the extreme individualist who believes collective responsibility as a concept is fascist...Unfortunately its not the original debate we intended to have, though I would love to have a specific debate with you about collective v. individual rights and responsibilities." The thing is that, that discussion is extremely relevant to our debate, no not the extremities of that debate of course, i was definitely not arguing that collective responsibility as a concept is fascist. I"m taking the middle road believers in freedom and liberty in my opinion should hold that the purpose of government of a country should be to protect the lives and freedom of the individuals residing therein. I"ll give you a radical example (it parallels our discussion) if Hitler would be elected in a country do you think that lovers of freedom and liberty should be supportive of that country or should they say that a country that elects for minorities to be persecuted against and even killed has no right to vote until they renounce their belief system (superior Aryan race, inferior worm like races etc.). http://youtu.be... The relevance is obvious to create a country which in its outset clearly says that they can only be established by having all the Jews thrown out (judenrein), a country which constantly calls for the blood of Jews. http://www.palwatch.org.... If this is all true with the Palestinian authority how much more so with Hamas as the government i hope my crowd is educated enough to know that Hamas is a typical terrorist organization who dances in the streets at the sight of the twin towers falling and obviously they refuse to recognize israels right to exist in any borders religiously i quote to you from the Hamas charter "Nothing is loftier or deeper in Nationalism than waging Jihad against the enemy and confronting him when he sets foot on the land of the Muslims... the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion." For the whole charter i refer http://www.thejerusalemfund.org... As i said in my initial argument the attitude of the Palestinians to the Jews is one so well know and documented that to dispute it is ridiculous. The greatest proof of all being the fact that it's obvious to everyone that it wouldn't be safe to leave Jews in the state of Palestine. (I thought it such basic knowledge that i didn't check the web site from my random search on Google whether it was made by an amateur I"m sorry about that). I don't want to get personal (g-d forbid) but let us be clear you said in your initial argument that even if all the things i said are true a lover of liberty should not be opposed to the Palestinian state. Then you spend your whole second argument trying to disprove my claim that the Palestinians are terribly anti-Semitic and explaining how these laws are just in place for the survival of the Palestinian nationalist movement and not in any way indicative of how a future Palestine would look,(and please, only Israelis i am only an American but me being a Jew 3 years ago was not allowed past the point outside of Ramallah where there's a big sign no Israelis past this point).But to be fair you conclude your argument my reverting to your original claim that even if it's all true the state should be created because Israel deserves it and you list their grievances . "Knowing the History of Israel, how it was created by what we call today, radical separatists... With a declaration of Independence ( http://en.wikipedia.org......) that caused a war..on land that was carved up under British Rule ( http://www.princeton.edu......) and fought by an army backed by British powers, but was previously recognized as a terrorist organization". In any event they shouldn't get a state till they can overlook their grievances but it"s not even true I don't have enough typing space left to deal with the propaganda you've been led to believe but I"ll give you one site which i love especially the myth and fact section and it's very accurate. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org... "Should a "Believer in liberty" really be touching this conflict with a 10ft pole, attached to a crane arm,operated by remote control-from the moon?" i say absolutely I just hope that if your on the moon you have a good pair of binoculars to see the reality for what it is.