Same sex marriage

**Sorry about missing the post in the 3rd round. Here is a link for anyone interested in reading it.http://www.debate.org...Thank you Pro for this great debate. You gave some well thought out arguments and this was a civil and polite debate. I appreciate your point of view and your willingness to discuss it. I have learned a lot.+ I want to give another quote from Alexis de Tocqueville that I think is appropriate in this context: “The evils which extreme equality may produce are slowly disclosed; they creep gradually into the social frame; they are only seen at intervals, and at the moment at which they become most violent habit already causes them to be no longer felt... The charms of equality are every instant felt, and are within the reach of all... Democratic nations are at all times fond of equality, but there are certain epochs at which the passion they entertain for it swells to the height of fury... At such times men pounce upon equality as their booty, and they cling to it as to some precious treasure which they fear to lose. The passion for equality penetrates on every side into men's hearts, expands there, and fills them entirely. Tell them not that by this blind surrender of themselves to an exclusive passion they risk their dearest interests: they are deaf. Show them not freedom escaping from their grasp, whilst they are looking another way: they are blind.” (1) Equality in and of itself is not bad. It can sometimes drive change that is right and noble, such as the abolishment of slavery. However, sometimes the fight for equality changes from becoming a means to an end, to being the end goal in and of itself. As mentioned by de Tocqueville, a democratic nation can be consumed by the goal of equality. This happens because the benefits of equality are immediately felt, but the evils of extreme equality take much longer to be felt. When that happens, as de Tocqueville says, do not tell people seeking for blind equality that they are risking more than they think they are, because they will not hear it. Do not show people that they are losing their freedoms, they do not wish to see that. Equality gives an immediate benefit that is easily felt, and any loss of freedom or negative affect brought about by that equality is going to be something felt down the road. Perhaps not even by the current generation. Out of sight, out of mind. As evidence, I give a quote from your argument in round 4. “Equality does have a diminishing effect on freedom but only on freedom regarding ones actions toward the public and not on personal freedoms.” See how quick we are to dismiss public freedoms in the interest of equality? What are freedoms, except when it comes to public behavior? Are you telling me I am free to believe what I want privately, just not free to live my life according to my private beliefs if anyone is watching? I realize I am asking a question here when this is the last round and you are not able to respond. I hope I am not treating your argument unfairly. But this does seem to be what you are getting at. In essence, you are stating “Believe what you want personally, but in your public life, you need to act differently than your personal beliefs.” I give you credit for being honest and consistent in your answer to my KKK question. What you are saying here tho, is that you do not believe in what the KKK stands for, but you will give support to them. If you believe this way, you are free to do so, but you are taking away my freedom by asking me to follow what you believe, not what I believe. The 1st Amendment in the Bill of Rights ensures the Right of Assembly. In NAACP v. Alabama in 1958, the Supreme court ruled that the Right of Assembly also included the Right of Association. (2) The Right of Association is that we can choose who we associate with. You are free to choose to associate yourself with the KKK in regards to my example, but I should also be free to not associate myself with the KKK if I so choose. What good is freedom if I cannot express it in public? You say that my freedom to believe what I want to in private is still intact, but then you also state that “Recognizing homosexual marriage will show that society views this minority group as equals... Freedom may be lost, but only in exchange for a better society where people are treated equally.” You again show the willingness to trade freedom for equality. In essence you are saying that federal recognition of homosexual marriage will show what society believes. Will it show what society believes personally, or publicly? Having the government create laws is not the way to go about this. America is not founded on the government making decisions for us, it is founded on the people making the decisions, and the government protecting those decisions. If society believes homosexuals should be allowed to marry, then any change made in this regard should not be forced upon us by the government, but should come about by freedom of association in society. If a restaurant does not believe in gay marriage, but you do, do not go there. If an actor does not hold views you believe in, do not watch their movies. If a group has views that are reprehensible to you, do not cater their event. Eventually society will show their belief by how people live their lives, who they associate with, and what they support. Conclusion America was founded on the idea of freedom. The Constitution is a document that enables and secures freedom. The trend lately is to discard freedom in the desire for equality, but I fear it is as de Tocqueville stated, that the passion for equality has swelled to the height of fury. At this point, freedom gives way, and equality increases, and changes the very purpose of the founding of the United States. Walter E. Williams stated, “The true test of one's commitment to freedom of association doesn't come when he permits people to associate in ways he deems appropriate. It comes when he permits people to voluntarily associate in ways he deems offensive.” (3) If equality is your goal, freedom will be put aside, and eventually it will be discovered that freedom has been lost, and will never be regained. At that time, the only thing left is to enjoy the equality in slavery that you have earned. (1) http://lamar.colostate.edu...... (2) http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org...... (3) http://www.creators.com......