The Safavid's had a good chance at becoming a Great Power

Thanks to Pro for his counter-rebuttals.First, there's something I'd like to get out of the way:"...the BOP is in my opponents hands as well. My strategy is to argue they already were a great power, so if even half of my points were true, then its apparent they had the potential."As clarified in Round 1, Pro is arguing that the Safavid Empire had a good chance at becoming strong enough to compete with European imperial/colonial powers politically and economically.I HAVE put forth contentions that negate that resolution; they are just built into my rebuttals, since they would have become rather repetitive if I separated them into "contentions" and "rebuttals".For example, my rebuttal to Pro's points about Safavid victories also served as a contention about Safavid military defeats.So, to anyone who may be reading, please do not get fooled by this; I AM fulfilling my BOP, showing that it is unlikely for the Safavid Empire to have become a "great power" capable of competing with the European powers..R1) Persian Nationalism"Nationality is the pride of the nation, and should be differentiated from the pride of an ethnic group. The greatest empires in the middle east, were the old Persian ones, which time and time again conquered the lands."There is very little evidence to suggest that the sense of nationalism that may have been created by the Persian empires from around 500 BC-200 AD [1] continued to exist even among non-ethnic Persians all the way through to the 1500s AD. Pro has not provided any such evidence; he has just said that the Persians used to be successful a really long time ago...To suggest that Arabs share any sort of sense of nationalism with the Persians is absurd; they are part of two different sects of Islam (Sunni and Shia, respectively), which have remained diametrically opposed to each other since their split in the 7th century and have remained so even to this day. They simply do not get along; sharing a common heritage means nothing to them [2]."Simply putting this into a realist perspective. Persecution kept the empire pure of religious and other cultural movements, a trait exercised by all nations at the time. "This is false. When studying the history of Europe during the time period in question, we can see that the greatest amount of prosperity was reached under rulers exercising policies of religious tolerance, such as Elizabeth I in England and Henri IV in France [3]. The suppression of minority religious groups within the Safavid Empire shows that its internal stability wasn't as good as that of the greatest European powers."The Safavids, as I already pointed out, had resisted European attempts to colonize Iran."So did Ming China, Japan, the Ottoman Empire, and Mughal India (at first). Being able to ward off European colonization in the 1500s was something that any semi-advanced military power was able to do..R2) Safavid Military Strength"Audience, I didn't concede any of these points."Quote(s) from Pro: "The Safavid Dynasty was strengthened by the disdain and failing administration of its neighbors. The Uzbeks, Indians [Mughal Empire], and Iraqi [Ottoman Empire] peoples all rose up in revolt over their respective rulers... People generally agree that the Ottomans and Mughals, although failing, were still great powers.... The Mughals and Ottomans were no joke in the 1600's."These contradictions on Pro's part are making me confused as to what the basis of his arguments are...Since Pro doesn't seem to be able to decide whether or not the Mughals and Uzbeks were strong or weak, I will just concentrate on the Ottoman Empire, since, for the most part, he has stuck with the contention that they were strong enough to pose a significant threat to the Safavids."His army, which combined the Ottoman tactic (A quite successful one) of levying peasents armys, combined with organized and structured forces of the west, gave the Safavids a world wide military advantage."If the Safavid Empire really had that great of a military advantage, then how come it never turned up any results? They never completely defeated another very strong power in a war, nor did they ever do much imperial expansion aside from its initial conquests upon inception.If we are looking at that great of a military advantage, even if it's just military "potential", we would have seen at least SOMETHING hinting at its existence."We are arguing that it was possible for the Safavids to become a great power. By conceding the Ottomans were over extended, then you are conceding that the Iranians had great potential to take over other lands. "False. My point in bringing that up was that the Safavid Empire conquering Baghdad doesn't show anything about its military potential, since the Ottomans weren't even able to concentrate their full power on them. Seeing that the Ottomans won the war EVEN under those conditions, it is very likely that the Ottoman Empire's military in full force was significantly stronger than that of the Safavid Empire."And the battle of Chaldiran, the one you are referencing, took place in 1514.This was near Isthals creation of the empire, and the Safavids took it back at their height"I can find no historical record of the Safavids taking back Chaldiran, and seeing that Pro has not sourced this claim, it should be disregarded. "it was actually the Mamluks who ended up controlling Mesopotamia"That is factually incorrect. According to Pro's own source, the Mamluks were the ruling dynasty of Egypt around the early modern age, and they virtually nothing to do with Mespotamia... I don't know where Pro is getting this information from..Conclusion I have refuted all of Pro's contentions and provided some of my own within my rebuttals, showing that the divisions within the Safavid Empire, as well as its unremarkable military record, greatly lowers the chances of the Safavid Empire having become a great imperial power comparable to European nations.The resolution has been negated. Thanks to Pro for an interesting debate!.SOURCES[1] http://www.ancient.eu.com...[2] http://www.bbc.com...[3] http://en.wikipedia.org...