Life is meaningless without God.

"Your argument, essentially, is that humans assign their own meaning to their own lives and therefore do not require God to provide one." - Yes, this indeed my argument. Human beings do not need God to find meaning in their own lives. "Your argument is one for subjectivity; that each individual has their own perspective of what is valuable. In your painting example an individual can assign meaning to an otherwise meaningless painting. If the value of some object or action is determined by any individual perspective, every possible perspective is equally valuable to the others." - It is one for subjectivity in terms of meaning, yes. Doesn't everyone have their own perspective of what is valuable? I may appreciate Stanley Kubrick movies and you may find them insignificant, for example. But there is no true objective way to say "You are wrong" and "I am right." Yes, the individual assigns meaning to an otherwise meaningless painting. Unless someone assigns a meaning to something, it is, by definition, meaningless. There is no inherent meaning. "For example, Hitler would find the Holocaust meaningful, while we would not. Without an objective standard, Hitler's opinion is equal to ours and his position is legitimate. Who are we to say someone else's perspective is inferior to ours without a standard of meaning to appeal to?" - I think you may be misinterpreting my argument. This has nothing to do with ethics or morality. Yes, Hitler does indeed find the Holocaust meaningful, while most would not, at least not in the same way. So to Hitler, did he do something meaningful? Yes. To us? Absolutely not, and we condemn him for his actions. - BUT, we cannot say his life was devoid of meaning. I cannot judge his life to be devoid of meaning because that meaning was his own. I can disagree with every single action he took and hate every ounce of him - many people do. I can judge him to be morally and ethically, evil, for lack of a better word. BUT, that judgment does not have anything to do with the meaning Hitler found in life. The individual has the freedom to seek and find value in some aspect of one's life. So did Hitler find his life to be meaningful? Yes. Are his actions condemnable by human standards? Yes. These are not contradictory statements since meaning and morality are not the same concept. Individual meaning does not lead to moral relativism. " In this way, God gives us a superior standard to determine meaning. Without God, what is it to say something is meaningful? For your art enthusiast, to say "I find meaning in that abstract painting" is just to say "I like that painting". But meaning extends past personal approval by its very definition. To have meaning is to be significant and the only way we can assign significance is by measuring its effect on a purpose. Humans are unable to establish that necessary purpose because we are unable to escape subjectivity." - Without God, the individual has the freedom and power to determine meaning for their own life. There is no handed-down meaning from God. Think of this example: You are an artist (yeah, art is common theme it seems). You have two options: The first is that you are told by your boss to create a specific kind of art for the rest of your life, and after you are dead, you will be famous. The second is that you have no boss, and you can create whatever art your heart desires for as long as you like, and there is no guarantee whatsoever of fame after you are dead. Which sounds more meaningful? The assignation of meaning by some higher power to each person where you are constricted in what you do in life in order for your life to have meaning? Or the second option, where each individual human being may choose to do whatever they find valuable in life and are not burdened by some forced, assigned meaning from a supernatural being? - I also disagree with your statement that saying "I find meaning in that painting" is the same as saying "I like it." They are quite different. Liking the painting is an emergent characteristic of finding meaning in the painting. If someone finds meaning in a painting, it is valuable and significant to them in some way, whether it be through a message they found, the physical beauty they see in it, etc. They are not the same thing, though. - Just as an example, let us think about a hermit. He sees no one in life. He affects no one's life. He simply goes into the wilderness and meditates and thinks about life for 65 years, until the day he dies. He discovers many things about himself, nature, and life and he finds that his life is meaningful. He does not subscribe to any theistic religion. You would say his life is meaningless? Or less meaningful than someone who is a politician, for example, who believes in God and has done some good and some bad while in office (in terms of improving quality of life for his constituency)? I am just curious. - My stance would be that if that hermit found his life to meaningful, then it was. It has nothing to do with God. He does not need God to have a meaningful life. Subjectivism in meaning is not something to "escape." It is all there is. Every individual gets their own meaning in life by their own choosing. Life is not meaningless without God because each person creates their own meaning for themselves. I await our final round. This is a good debate, I feel.