Creationism (and Intelligent Design) advocates are necessarily liars

I accept your argument by taking the Con side, saying, "No, one need not be a liar to be a Creationist." I also assume you're not saying this in an "Everybody lies, so Creationists are liars too" way. If that were the case, I'd toss the debate. Thank you for establishing that we needn't nitpick individuals for our cases; both efforts would be futile."Let me start with the core assertions of creationism: Inerrancy of the bible. Clearly, creationism is born from the belief in inerrancy of a biblical text."You've shot yourself in the foot with the very first statement of your argument. First of all, not all Creationists are Christians, and thus, not all read the Bible. This statement will be passed on through each point and each round of this debate. Second, many theists of all walks do not consider the Bible to be inerrant. Anyone can do a quick Google search and find where the Bible contradicts itself. Not many think the Bible is a literal text, and certainly not all do. Frankly, I could stop my argument right here. I, personally, don't believe the Bible is literal, or even supposed to be, and thus your argument could be completely refuted right now. For the sake of the debate, I will continue to argue."The fact is, that the bible contains at least 100,000 transcription errors just from the original texts into other ancient texts..."Anyone who can do a Google search (or read a bit of the Bible) can find how many times the Bible errs. There are very few people who think the Bible doesn't have errors. Despite what you may think, not all theists are backwards and stuck in the past. It's not like the Middle Ages. We've kind of progressed a little since then. Only the worst close-minded bigots (we're looking at you, Westboro) can't admit that. That, of course, doesn't speak ill of the rest."We don't follow biblical morality, and once more, I will even state that historically we never did in the first place. Morality has always come from our society, has always been enforced by it, imposed by it, changed by it, and will continue to do so in the foreseeable future."Yeah, because we aren't barbarians. Being a theist does not mean you must follow all the rules of the Bible or whatever religious text you follow. Intelligent design is, by definition, "the theory that life, or the universe, cannot have arisen by chance and was designed and created by some intelligent entity." Nowhere can you find that belief in every word of the Bible is necessary for being a theist. Or in any holy book, for that matter."Science and medicine in the bible you say? Let me be crass: The bible contains none of it."It just feels like I'm reiterating the same points. Nobody these days takes Biblical medicine/science seriously, save for religious nutjobs."Such simple advice (on which to defecate) would have saved countless lives over the eons."I'd like you to find any time in history in which someone died from fecal-related issues because they couldn't find where in the Bible they could take a dump. Nobody through history has died from pooping in the wrong place because the Bible didn't tell them. The Bible also doesn't say how to fix my sink. If my sink goes out, I'm not gonna consult the Bible and then give up. Nobody has ever been that stupid. Your talk as such is ridiculous to the point of being offensive."Historically we were held back for hundreds of years by "inerrant" interpretations of the bible...We know the dark ages and middle ages as several centuries of nothing more than suppression of progress due to dogmatic religious beliefs "Historically, we were not. Heliocentrism: http://www.iep.utm.edu... - You'll find that science and religion never really clashed over the subject, and Churchmen never persecuted those who tried to push for heliocentrism.Furthermore, science owes a supreme debt of gratitude to religion and the church: http://blogs.nature.com... - The only reason any science even made it past the Middle Ages is solely the responsibility of Churchmen- they were the only ones who could read and write, and thus spent their years passing on ideas the scientific community had proposed. Rarely, if ever, did religion hinder scientific progress. The idea is an incredibly misleading one....you know what, really. Realize that the reason we are this far ahead scientifically is because of religion. It's done us a major, major favor."Your counter arguments are clearly going to go into the usual epi-cycles of apologism, including the various methods of 'people make mistakes, but God doesn't' or 'separate interpretation from religion'... If you take either tact, you are essentially admitting that there are problems with the bible - that it isn't error free."Wow, dude, you're right! You've actually strengthened my argument! I've been saying this whole time, "The Bible does err, but that has absolutely nothing to do with theism and intelligent design." Thanks a bunch, man! Sincerely, and from the bottom of my heart, thank you very much for making my job that much easier. "When you call a book full of errors a perfect 'inerrant' book, you're lying."Yeah, if you do that, I whole-heartedly agree. If that was the argument, you'd win, hands down, no contest. But that isn't your argument. Your argument is that theists must believe the Bible doesn't err, and that argument isn't true in the slightest. Most theists/Creationists/Christians/monotheistic religions don't believe it is an inerrant book, or even an infallible book. It errs. Very, very few think it doesn't, and yes, they are liars. Or just ignorant. But this idea you have... you must be a liar to believe in intelligent design... is flawed beyond belief. It is simply a weak argument. Frankly, I'd like to see you get out of this hole you've dug yourself into. I look forward to your response.