Superhero Face Off 2

INTRODUCTIONI will break my opponents arguments down into individuals points to make them easier for me to address as well as introduce a few new points about my characters as well as expanding on some of the things my opponent didn't address.ARGUMENTSThe Conditions of this BattleI am assuming that we begin on equal playing fields. You didn't specify where or when the fight takes place, only that no prior preparation was made. I assumed something along the lines of our fighters being unexpectedly teleported into some arena under our control, to do as we will. Barry Allen and the Speed ForceI suspect my opponent did not read the source I provided on the speed force. Let me provide a few quotes...“The Speed Force serves as the ultimate measure of velocity in the DC Universe.”“Perhaps his most versatile new power. Because the Speed Force governed all motion, Wally could rob objects of their kinetic energy, motion, or momentum (e.g., bullets in flight or turning a supervillain into a statue) and use the energy to accelerate himself even faster. He could similarly lend speed to inanimate objects or allies, enabling them to temporarily travel nearly as fast as himself.”“Exhibited by Barry Allen, Bart Allen, and Iris West. Their total control of kinetic energy at a molecular level allows them to match the vibrational frequency needed to travel easily into and through solid matter. As an offensive ability, it can be used to scramble one's molecular structure to the point of literal disintegration.”And this quote regarding Barry Allen specifically...“He has recently been revealed to not only be connected to the Speed Force, but is the very source of it, generating it with every step he takes. As such, he presumably has some of the Speed Force-related abilities other speedsters have demonstrated (such as lending and stealing speed), though he has yet to demonstrate such abilities. This alone is enough to make him one of the most powerful beings on Earth, and perhaps in existence. He is also immune to telepathic attacks and control, as he can shift his thoughts at a speed faster than normal thought.“REBUTTALSGoku's speed and power“im choosing goku at the end of gt so all that he was weak and needed help stuff aint gunna work here”This is completely incorrect. Goku and Vegeta merged into Gogeta were unable to defeat Black Smoke Shenron and he (Goku) ended up having to draw on the power of the beings all over the Universe to perform the spirit bomb. Clearly he was not unbeatable even at the end of GT.“just saying that goku needed help so that means that he is weak or that his stamina is gunna run out is alot easier said than done.“I am certainly NOT saying Goku is weak. I am merely citing the various fights (Raditz, Frieza, Androids, Cell, Buu and so on) where Goku was unable to defeat his opponent alone as evidence he is not some unbeatable fighting God.“Goku can instant transition to green lantern in a full nelson or just with a punch to the temple.”Of course he can. However, Goku's abilities that work in his Universe aren't necessarily going to work the same way in our hypothetical place of battle. I have already stated how I will control this fight and you didn't address that sufficiently.“at his now supersayin 2 he can more than likely keep up with the flash.”Again, we have no basis for comparison but since the Flash can travel so fast he can time travel, I highly doubt this.Regardless of all this, my initial point about the Flash robbing Goku of his speed still stands.The Hulk; breaking the grip of the power ring and being mobile in space.“anyone can break the energy stuff that comes out of his ring. you should know as well as i do that hulk has plenty physical force. he also has the thunder clap a long ranged move to stun the enemy so just dragging him into space is again easier said than done.”Of course, the will of the Green Lantern can be broken (though I disagree that 'anyone' can do it. It wouldn't be a fun comic to read if that wasn't the case. World War Hulk was defeated too. However, the Flash can just as easily rob the Hulk of his speed, rendering unable to move. My opponent has yet to provide any sources regarding the exact limits of World War Hulks (also referred to as Green Scar Hulk) abilities but my research suggests he is able to lift upwards of 100 tons. My source (provided last round) suggests that Hal Jordan is also capable of lifting 100 tons with his power ring. This suggests (to me at least) that they are on equal footing if they are head to head on Earth.So, Green Lantern heads straight for Hulk, using his speed and flight mobility to capture Hulk in a power ring lasso. Then he can either tow a kicking and screaming Hulk into space or hurl him into space with his will-powered strength. Either way, once the Hulk is in space, Green Lantern has the advantage as the Hulk has no ability to fly.The Phoenix and why she gets disintegrated by the Flash“Flash can do those things effortlessly sure but he cant do that instantaneously he needs to have at least one second to preform what ever the heck he is going to do.”No, no he doesn't. As I previously stated, the Flash travels so fast, he is able to travel through time. The moment the battle begins, the very instant the battle begins, the Phoenix is hit by a Flash with, and a quote “The force of an exploding white dwarf”. The Phoenix is the one who needs at least one second to perform her moves.“now we never specified how far away these guys are from each other”Ah, now you're trying to add some little change to the conditions of the battle (conditions you never set). Excuse me sir, but I believe you said this...“Phoenix gets flash in a force field and starts to crush him while floating him towards her”This indicates to me that they are in the general vicinity of each other.“either stopping him by controlling his mind from the beginning”No. Barry Allen is immune to mine control. I already stated this and provided the source which clearly states it.“when he vibrates disintegrate his molecules”This is only hypothetical (and I'll leave it up to the good voters to decide) but since Phoenix can control things on a molecular level and Barry Allen has total control of his kinetic energy at a molecular level, I don't think this is the tactic best suited to your victory. “if all else fails, phoenix can revive herself”(This is also relevant: “hulk can almost survive anything. he has had his whole body destroyed with organs showing and he only took 11 minutes to regenerate back”)Ah, so you're now admitting you have selected and unbeatable characters. She can't be destroyed, ever? Not ever? Not with any conceivable attack? Then she violates your 'No near-God level power' rule and you forfeit the debate. No, actually I change my tactic. The Flash travels back in time and kills Jean Gray, Bruce Banner and Goku when they were children.Let's stop being silly shall we?CONCLUSIONAs previously stated, the Flash ensures my victory in this battle. As my opponent says here:“these characters theoretically have to will they are controlled by us and do what we say.”“we are controlling them and thats it”We are in control. That means the usual morality of my selected heroes is thrown out the door and they're free to be as brutal in the extent they use their magnificent powers, as long as I state my tactic.My opponent has done no such thing. He has not even addressed Superman's place in this battle. Superman! Bah. I have more to say but I'm running out of characters.