Jesus was not the God or Son of God

Thank you for this interesting topic.1. Thanks for admitting “Yes you are right there are other sources that mention Jesus”.I assume this means you are accepting the accuracy of those non Biblical sources cited.2. I encourage you to take the Bible more seriously.There is a great deal of textual evidence that makes the NT more authoritative, so if you accept the non Biblical sources from my round 1 you should also accept the NT. [1]If you accept the Quran as true, I encourage you to accept the Torah and the Gospels as true. “He sent down to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming all previous scriptures, and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel.” S. 3:3 “This Koran could not have been forged apart from God; but it is a confirmation of what IS before it, and a distinguishing of the Book, wherein is no doubt, from the Lord of all Being.” S. 10:37Many places in the Quran refer to the Torah and Gospels as “ a confirmation of what IS before it” You need to take the Bible seriously.3. You claim that “Jesus never claims to be God in any text” You are clearly wrong.A) John 8:53-59 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” 59 Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.People challeng Jesus because he said “if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.”In response to their challenge he says - “God is my Father” - “Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.” - “ before Abraham was born, I AM” His hearers understood exactly what he claimed (equality / identity with God) and wanted to kill Him.B) John 10:24--33 24 . . .If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me. . . . 30 I and the Father are one.” 31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” 33 The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” Here again Jesus’ audience understand that he is claiming to be God. He says he told them plainly (v 25) but they would not believe. This time they had no doubt about his claim. Their charge against him is “You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.”(v 33)C) John 9:35-38 records Jesus’ claim to be “Son of Man” and accept worship. 35 Jesus heard that they had put him out, and finding him, He said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” 36 He answered, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” 37 Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you.” 38 And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him. Son of man is a messianic term. If you were not aware of these scriptures, I am happy to point them out to you. If you claim that Jesus’ audience is wrong in their understanding of His words, that takes a special type of hubris and denial to claim that you understand his words better than his audience. These references are proof that Jesus did claim to be God. There is other evidence as well. [2]4) In round 1 (paragraph 1) you state “When He was about to be crucified He did not say Crucify me, I will die for your sins” I’m glad you mention that. I think you underestimate the power and wisdom of God. If you and I were in a chess game I would think you a fool if you told me your strategy before you moved. God is more wise than that. In Mark 10:32-34, Jesus tells his disciples the plan. And again He took the twelve aside and began to tell them what was going to happen to Him, 33 saying, “Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered to the chief priests and the scribes; and they will condemn Him to death and will hand Him over to the Gentiles. 34 They will mock Him and spit on Him, and scourge Him and kill Him, and three days later He will rise again.” Again in Matthew 26:1-2 he lets them know the plan. Not only did Jesus tell the events in advance, but he told the reason in advance in John 3:14-17 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.5) You say Jesus feared death. In John 10 he tells how he will lay it down AND take it up again by his own desire and authority. John 10:11; 14-1811 “I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. 17 For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. 18 No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”6) “If Jesus was the Son of God, why didn't he come down from the cross.” Jesus tells that the cross was a part of his purpose. Coming down from the cross would be a failure, not success. Look at John 12:27-28 27 “Now My soul has become troubled; and what shall I say, ‘Father, save Me from this hour’? But for this purpose I came to this hour. 28 Father, glorify Your name.” Then a voice came out of heaven: “I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.”7) “Those miracles were metaphorical” - wrong Those who investigated the miracles found evidence. They ate bread, drank wine, walked, spoke, had sight restored. No intelligent reading can say I believe the NT and then dismiss the miracles. You either dismiss the NT or believe the accounts mean real miracles. The four Gospels record 37 miracles of Jesus. The closing verse of John's Gospel says, "Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written." (John 21:25, NIV) If you accept the Quran, this might encourage you. “ Lo! I come unto you with a sign from your Lord. Lo! I fashion for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it is a bird by Allah’s leave. I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by Allah’s leave. And I announce to you what you eat and what you store up in your houses. Lo! herein verily is a portent for you if you are to be believers. And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you. I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, so keep your duty to Allah and obey me. Lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path.” (Qur’an 3: 49-51).8) “but probably he never resurrected, he was probably never dead either.” See point 7 above. If you do not accept the NT evidence or the non Biblical history we need some common authority for discussion.9) “Jesus survived crucifixion” Space is limited - look here if you are interested. [3] Only by totally dismissing all evidence can you claim this. Jesus claims to be God. Jesus claims to be God's son. Jesus takes other messianic titles on himself. Miracles were signs of his power and truth.The resurrection is the greatest sign.[1] Manuscript evidence for superior New Testament reliability - http://carm.org...[2] John 1:1, 14; John 20:28; Acts 20:28; Titus 2:13; Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38[3] Jesus only appeared to have died on the cross http://carm.org...