The Morality of the Bible is Outdated

Your claim that the humanist manofesto3 is more likely to lead to a more prosperous and harmonious society, has already been proven to be a failure. I assumed this was common knowledge, as in every instance that progressive socialism, otherwise known as communism, has failed. Sure, you can give it a new coat of paint , rename it, but its the same old song and dance. If you disagree with my assertion that it's just communism in disguise, then please point to a humanist government that exists, and if you can't, than your argument is nothing more than a pipe dream. You can claim all you want that it's superior but since it doesn't exist, it will be impossible to prove, and the debate will be over. I've noticed that you gave a lot, and I mean a lot, of examples to prove your point. I answer these so called proofs towards the end of my rebuttal. I don't know if this was your debate tactic, but suffice it to say, I think you read to many Dan Brown novels. Why do you play semantics with the term "secular humanist"? Are you not comfortable with the term atheist? I don't want to offend you but if it walks like a duck and if it talks like a duck, chances are it's a duck. Your humanist manifesto3 is nothing more than regurgitated tripe. [Karl Marx meets Charles Darwin] It's claim that "Ethical values are derived from human need and interest as tested by experience." Well I think this ideology has been tested throughout history and should never be tested again. Also can you not see the mistake in this? The American Humanist Association logo says " Good without a God"Why bring religion into this at all, why not just "doing good through humanism" because you look down on people who believe in a God, you make fun of them, you take pot shots at their religion ,you believe your intellectually superior and this eventually leads to persecution. Sound familiar? Read the history of communist Russia. Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it. Can you tell me who determines what the ethical values are? Is this a board, a committee? If it is one of these, how do you get on the board/committee?. What are the defining factors involved? This progressive culture sounds like a utopia, of course I understand that someone has to dig the ditches and someone has to pass out the checks. But all for the greater good, right comrade? As long as I'm the one digging the ditches. Can you not see the fallacy of this? It all sounds good on paper but when put into practice has only led to persecution of one form or another. I would really like to know how you learned to embraced this ideology, was it from a college professor? Was it from the Internet? And since I'm asking, were you ever religious and if you were, what faith tradition did you hail from? The reason I'm asking is because I want to know if you embraced this because of political reasons, ideology, or a rejection of religious teachings. I have to say that it certainly sounds like you have an axe to grind against the Catholic Church. Which makes me think that you were once a Catholic. Also, I've noticed that you seem to get most, if not all, of your biblical morality from the old testament. Perhaps a thorough reading of Matt. Chapters 5,6,7 for an updated look at what would be considered biblical morality. Unless of course you're not actually seeking the truth but only a hammer to wield against "theist". One last question, if a child has no one to answer to but himself, is he more or less likely to get into trouble? I think that's enough for now. I answer you points below "Here, too, we can learn by the example of the Catholic Church. Though its doctrinal edifice, and in part quite superfluously, comes into collision with exact science and research, it is none the less unwilling to sacrifice so much as one little syllable of its dogmas... it is only such dogmas which lend to the whole body the character of a faith." Pro, I a little confused by this statement. Did you mean ,Through its doctrinal edifice? And it comes into collision with exact science? You do know who gave us the scientific method right?, and why would it change its dogma, it's what Catholics believe. If you don't believe it, don't become Catholic, Most, if not all of your statements are pretty much the same old arguments that Anti-Catholics have been using against the Church for years. Easily refuted by, get this, what the Church actually teaches. So next time, I would suggest taking the time to find out what the Catholic teaching is beforehand, it would save a lot of time and a lot of space. You say the Catholic church is anti-semetic (Hitler, denial of Holocaust), what did the Jews of that time say? "Throughout the 1940s and 1950s, tributes to Pope Pius came from several other Jewish leaders who praised him for his role in saving Jews during the war. In 1943, Chaim Weizmann, who would become Israel"s first president, wrote that "the Holy See is lending its powerful help wherever it can, to mitigate the fate of my persecuted co-religionists." Moshe Sharett, who would become Israel"s first Foreign Minister and second Prime Minister, reinforced these feelings of gratitude when he met with Pius in the closing days of World War II: "I told him [the Pope] that my first duty was to thank him, and through him the Catholic Church, on behalf of the Jewish public for all they had done in the various countries to rescue Jews"We are deeply grateful to the Catholic Church." In 1945, Rabbi Isaac Herzog, the Chief Rabbi of Israel, sent a message to Msgr. Angelo Roncalli (the future Pope John XXIII), expressing his gratitude for the actions taken by Pope Pius XII on behalf of the Jewish people. "The people of Israel," wrote Rabbi Herzog, "will never forget what His Holiness and his illustrious delegates, inspired by the eternal principles of religion, which form the foundation of true civilization, are doing for our unfortunate brothers and sisters in the most tragic hour of our history, which is living proof of Divine Providence in this world." In September 1945, Dr. Leon Kubowitzky, the Secretary General of the World Jewish Congress, personally thanked the Pope in Rome for his interventions on behalf of Jews, and the World Jewish Congress donated $20,000 to Vatican charities "in recognition of the work of the Holy See in rescuing Jews from Fascist and Nazi persecutions." Dr. Raffael Cantoni, head of the Italian Jewish community"s wartime Jewish Assistance Committee, who would subsequently become the President of the Union of Italian Jewish Communities, similarly expressed his gratitude to the Vatican, stating that "six million of my co-religionists have been murdered by the Nazis, but there could have been many more victims had it not been for the efficacious intervention of Pius XII." On April 5, 1946, his Union of Italian Jewish Communities, meeting for the first time after the War, sent an official message of thanks to Pope Pius XII:" http://www.catholicleague.org... "In 1944, the Chief Rabbi of Rome, Israel Anton Zolli, gave an interview to the"American Hebrew"(July 14, 1944). Rabbi Zolli, who had been hidden in the Vatican during the German occupation of Rome, told the paper, "The Vatican has always helped the Jews and the Jews are very grateful for the charitable work of the Vatican, all done without distinction of race." In his book"Antisemitismo, Rabbi Zolli would later write: "World Jewry owes a great debt of gratitude to Pius XII for his repeated and pressing appeals for justice on behalf of the Jews and, when these did not prevail, for his strong protests against evil laws and procedures". No hero in all of history was more militant, more fought against, none more heroic than Pius XII in pursuing the work of true charity!" and this on behalf of all the suffering children of God." http://www.catholicleague.org... "The voice of Pius Xll is a lonely voice in the silence and darkness enveloping Europe this Christmas" -New York Times December 25, 1942 http://www.catholicleague.org... A) Hitler grew up a Catholic "It is wrong to paint Hitler as a Catholic. Though he was baptized, he excommunicated himself, latae sententiae, when he sought, in his words, to "crush [the Catholic Church] like a toad." He made good on his pledge by persecuting 8,000 priests, over 500 of whom were killed in concentration camps. He also sought to assassinate the pope." I realize, due to your lack of knowledge pertaining to the Catholic religion, you are unaware of the self-excommunication. The fact that Hitler persecuted Catholics as well as killed them during the Holocaust doesn't give your argument that Hitler was a "Catholic" any weight whatsoever. As far as the video; because a Catholic bishop denies the Holocaust, this makes him anti-semetic? Therefore since Catholics died in the Holocaust it would also make him anti Catholic too, a laughable conclusion. .http://www.catholicleague.org... B) Christians, including Catholics, had been pouring hatred atop Jews like fuel for centuries through Blood libel [5], combined with popular Christian interpretation of the scripture Matthew 27:24-25 I cant speak for other Christians but I can show you what the Catholic Church teaches. "The historical complexity of Jesus" trial is apparent in the Gospel accounts. The personal sin of the participants (Judas, the Sanhedrin, Pilate) is known to God alone. Hence we cannot lay responsibility for the trial on the Jews in Jerusalem as a whole, despite the outcry of a manipulated crowd and the global reproaches contained in the apostles" calls to conversion after Pentecost.385 Jesus himself, in forgiving them on the cross, and Peter in following suit, both accept "the ignorance" of the Jews of Jerusalem and even of their leaders.386 Still less can we extend responsibility to other Jews of different times and places, based merely on the crowd"s cry: "His blood be on us and on our children!" a formula for ratifying a judicial sentence.387 As the Church declared at the Second Vatican Council: (1735, 839) ...[N]either all Jews indiscriminately at that time, nor Jews today, can be charged with the crimes committed during his Passion.... [T]he Jews should not be spoken of as rejected or accursed as if this followed from holy Scripture.388 Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraph 597" C) "Catholicism doesn"t simply get to spill the gasoline, light the match, and walk away with its finger pointed at Richard Dawkins for the holocaust, as if it were his fault. [10] By your "worst atrocities are by atheists" argument, you are basically implying that Secular Humanists are the same as Nazis, simply because neither group believes in a God. This is just as absurd as claiming that pacifist Pennsylvania Quakers are the same thing as Al Qaeda jihadists because they both do believe in a God. Voters should hold you accountable for this." Believe me ,I'm not giving a pass on some of the horrible things Christians have done but Secular Humanist are the same as Nazis as insofar as they both are atheistic in their belief systems,and is it a coincidence that they, and not the Quakers nor the jihadists, killed millions of people? Remember, it was you who tried to equate theism and the soviet union " "For example, the Soviet Union was atheist, and imposed that atheism by force, brutality, discrimination, etc" just as theism often has," My intent was to show how ridiculous this comparison is and the only thing that we ever received from an atheistic government was persecution and or death. Now you want to claim that this is somehow absurd, that's fine , just give me an example of a atheistic government that hasn't done these things. And readers note: no begging for votes here. D) "Your commentary on DCT fares no better. People are not lifeless paintings, so your comparison is an obvious Faulty Comparison fallacy [11]. I wonder how it would play out if later today, you came across an old man standing over his son, who is tied up on an alter. The old man raises his knife high, about to plunge it into the young man - would you decide to confront him? Call the police? If you did demand an answer as to what he"s doing and why, suppose he replies back, "Oh, it"s okay, I"m his father, I can do whatever I want with him. Besides, God told me to." Somehow I doubt you"d be more satisfied with his answer than I would be. Compare the story I describe to the one in Genesis 22:5 " 22:8 and then tell me if moral understanding has not evolved over the past few thousand years." Note: see dictionary, find word; metaphor What if I came upon a man that wasn't standing at an altar but lets say he was in charge of a country and instead of a knife he had gas chambers or forced abortions or he just starved his people... Yep it's evolved alright . E) "Humans have come up with all sorts of explanations for why reality is the way it is." I would agree with this, let's look at atheism, they believe that creation created itself, and can prove it scientifically. F) "What probability do I attribute to your suggestion that maybe I"m wrong and the Israelite war god called YHWH exists, and somehow evolved from a nasty jerk in the Old Testament into a hippie Trinity in the New Testament?" "We are committed to treating each person as having inherent worth and dignity, and to making informed choices in a context of freedom consonant with responsibility" Humanist manifesto3 Must be more of that superior morality. G) "You've asked me to establish what particular parts of the Bible I think have become obsolete. Just to review what was raised so far in this round: " 1.Who's interpretation? Let me guess, yours. 2.What if that child's name was Adolf Hitler? 3.Dude, Homosexuality is unnatural and doesn't conform with your evolutionary thinking. 4.Jesus statements about wealth are not about money but the love of money, as the bible clearly states. " for the love of money is the root of all evils" 1st Tim 6.10 5.Think, indentured servant and then look up Deut 15.12