Rap vs Metal

I don't think any of Pro's examples provide proof that music itself motivates people to commit violent acts, (the references to sex crimes and drug abuse appear to have been dropped. ) Music works on the emotions and I suppose in some isolated cases, it could be possible that music could provide a trigger, an emotional response that makes the listener more likely to act upon intentions they already have. But I believe in every case sited and every situation referred to, the motivation comes from sources external to the music itself. Rioters and looters in Los Angeles in 1992 were primarily motivated by two things, the brutal beating of Rodney King and the opportunity to steal stuff. The idea that they attacked police because of Bodycount's Cop Killer, rather than because of the video of and the verdict awarded to those (despicable excuses for) police officers, stretches the bounds of believability for me. Sure, musicians wrote many lyrics about the riots after they happened, but the idea that any piece of music, particularly Ice T's unconvincing attempts at Heavy Metal, inspired or instigated the riots is wholly unsubstantiated and quite far-fetched to say the least. Ice Cube's Black Korea was in no way the motivation for animosity between black and Korean communities, it merely documented it, or as Pro's wiki source puts it "reflected the tensions". The anecdotal and video evidence about riots associated with RATM is similarly unconvincing. I would posit that it's far more likely that these rioters were inspired by a mixture of generic, naive, teenage rebellious spirit and radical anarchic politics. RATM may have reflected these political themes in their music and even have helped to popularise them, but they certainly didn't create them. People lashed out at authority long before anarchist ideology was expressed in popular music, "The System" is the real motivation here. As for Charles Manson, his motivation is simply his batsh! t craziness. There is no racial subtext to Helter Skelter, the fact that his delusional mind believed he had endorsement from Lennon & McCartney for his plans of instigating a race war, does not make the song his motivation. The stuff about religious groups is interesting, but is no evidence that music motivates violence. Appealing to the authority of such a group would be equivalent to surmising that "god hates f@gs" because Westboro Baptist Church says so. It's interesting to note Pro referring to "the bad reputation that these people have given to these forms of expression and the propaganda they spread to discredit both rap and metal", when he himself seems to be giving credit to the reactionary notion that music poisons young minds. I don't see how the activities of musicians themselves is particularly relevant to the debate and in any case the list of rappers who have supposedly been charged with murder is without corroboration and at face value seems palpably false. Biggie for example was arrested for harassment and drugs and weapons offences and was of course murdered himself, but was never charged with murder. . http://en.wikipedia.org... I've never heard anything about murder charges for most of the artists on this list. Kane, Rakim, Dre, Nas and Jay-Z I'm almost certain have never been charged with murder, contrary to Pro's assertions. There's certainly nothing about it on their wiki pages. I'm not going to present a similarly incorrect list of Heavy Metal artists and as we're discussing the influences of music not the personal lives of artists, I don't think any more needs to be said about this. Pro's assertions about the lifestyle of his own friends belongs in the category of anecdote and has as much significance for the debate as if I were to claim the converse, that I know loads of Heavy Metal fans who rape, kill and use drugs. I think it's pretty clear that most people who listen to the bastardised version of hip hop that Pro calls rap, are not actually gun toting gangsters. On this very web site with its predominantly middle class intellectual teenage demographic, there are plenty of rap fans, I'm pretty sure very few of them pack heat or gang bang. There were gangsters and guns long before there was rap or heavy metal, the listening preferences of modern day gangsters is not really relevant, their motivations are the same as they have always been, greed and the lust for power over others. I've really enjoyed this debate and hope that people vote according to the arguments presented and not their pre-conceived notions about the issue. Thanks again to blood and good luck in your future debates.