Once Saved, Always Saved

All of your assertions are relying on this premise that the Bible isn't a farce. I simply asked for some evidence here before moving on to the next step. Your assertions have no weight whatsoever there is no foundation to the idea of salvation. You yourself see the truth to this as you noted in round 2: "as Salvation would be a non-issue if God didn't exist." -- Well, what is there to suggest that God exists and that salvation is an issue at all? You could argue that Goblins are green but unless Goblins exist you're sunk. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in God. There's nothing making me feel in control of my life other than the control I have from time to time. You clearly did suggest that the Bible taught something, that doesn't make it true. The Bible also teaches that plants predate the sun, snakes eat dust, and insects have four legs... that doesn't make any of that true. Being part of a book, doesn't make anything true. Where I don't disagree that the Bible might say that, I disagree with the topic on the grounds that being once saved is completely unestablished as is being always saved. If you gain your salvation in the first place it's all a moot point. I see nothing to assume the former is established why then the latter. What part of numerous examples of people falling away makes falling away not a plausible argument. -- "We can have a debate on the validity of Scripture another time, but it is unnecessary to talk about it right now." -- I disagree. The topic cannot be true without the validity of scripture. It's a valid point to the debate. -- "How absurd of you to think that every time I have a debate, I'm required to want equally to debate a Christian or a non-Christian." -- Well, if you want to assume the truth of the Bible, you should state that in your opening remark. Because, without that assumption, you have nothing to debate and no external support for any of your points at all. Without the assumption that that book is valid, your entire religion crumbles. And because there's no external evidence for the validity of your religion... it all appears to be predicated on a very far-fetched assumption. If you want to debate within that assumption, you should obviously state that. Without the assumption, you can't establish any of it as true. Or if you can, you didn't bother to try. I accept that the Bible is contradictory, so simply suggesting one thing, doesn't force one to believe the contrary is false. The point remains that there are a number of references to falling away and even if there are references to the elect, it doesn't negate the first point. I don't feel you did a good job refuting such a thing by pointing out that without roots you aren't really saved. http://www.geocities.com... You're entire debate is contingent on the truth of the Bible. That's not an assumption I am willing to accept at this time. If you check my debate history, you'll notice that I debated on this exact topic previously on the pro side against Countrylover and was more than willing to accept the truth of the Bible. However, without that requirement, I firmly disagree with the topic on the grounds that it's all made up. ----- -- "There was no other way to do it, and Jesus has ZERO regrets for doing what He did." An all powerful God was unable to just do it without the superfluous suicide? Also, 'myself myself, why have I forsaken myself' seems a little regrety to me. I'd happily die for anybody if I get to spring back to life. That's not much of a sacrifice at all come to think of it. -- "Once again, your job is to prove that the BIBLE does not teach eternal security." No. My job is to prove that there is no eternal security. The Bible teaching it is a moot point of the Bible is full of crap. There's no argument here that the Bible isn't garbage, and no argument that actual salvation exists. There's no way you meet your burden here. You've established nothing.