Christian God = Loving Father

My conclusion for this debate is that morality is unreliable. It can be manipulated into any form by the powers that be. I tried to find solid ground with ethics, which you passed off as equal to morality. I wanted to find a universally acceptable ethical system that does not change regardless of the time period or culture. My ethical standards are based off of Basic ethical principles like do unto others what you want done to you, or the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. The objective morality you would find in the Bible or Quran does not adhere to even the most basic moral guidelines. You have been justifying atrocities to the point that even the holocaust cannot be judged if scripture allows it! I'm saying that is Bovine feces. Man has always made the laws, and man has always pursued his agenda's. Each scripture I used as examples perfectly illustrated the agenda during that time. Again morality has lost all meaning in this debate if I cannot use a simple ethics system to decide whether or not God is a loving father. You have to know how frustrating it is to be told the bible is a reasonable basis for morality when clearly IT IS NOT! You have used your bible to proclaim superiority in this debate. But the bible is what is being scrutinized. I'm saying that your "Objective morality" you are holding on to is subjective. It always has been, always will. Not only is it subjective but is inferior and obsolete. I started this debate with full intention of scrutinizing the validity of the bible. Saying the bible is your objective morality, is conjecture. You have no more proof than I do that you have a moral strength that I do not. I turned that around saying: because you are using the bible for morality you have completely disregarded universally recognized concepts of morality. A morality that actually exists (not just in your head)! I am empowering myself with the ability to scrutinize any culture in any time period by simply using ethics. If it does not follow certain guidelines (like do unto others) More than likely it is nothing more than something that SOMEBODY wants you to believe. You have placed WWAAAYY too much trust in the laws handed to you by man. We have a responsibility to protect the women and children. We have a responsibility to not allow the abuse or oppression of anyone! Oppression should be reserved for the oppressors (like Muslims mutilating their women) not whatever the king says! It is far more important to question laws than follow them blindly! It is foolish to take the word of a man. Stop leaving it in the hands of our leaders (kings or gods) IT IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY! That is MORAL! "My opponent brings up a few laws that lead to the death penalty- those who commit adultery, rebellious children, and those who practice sorcery. I see no problem with a society setting up laws that, when violated, invoke the death penalty. If someone lives in a society where committing adultery is convicted by death, and that person commits adultery, he had full knowledge of the consequences. How is this unfair?" Sounds like a witch hunt to me. Not one of those laws or punishment came from anything just or superior. Again those scriptures just clearly illustrated the ignorance and gullibility of that time. They would believe anything: even that your son should be killed for not falling in line! Those scriptures were clearly written with an agenda. The agenda's that made it law to marry your rapist, kill your unruly child, own slaves! This was a time nearly void of morality due to the obvious manipulation from the church! We know what is right! We do. If not your biology has failed you! It is instinct not commandments. It is integrity, not obedience! How can I make this more clear.. MORALITY IS SECULAR! That is fact! We did not move past the ridiculous assumption that our societies morality comes from the bible! You have no evidence to keep you glued to your high horse. So you better step off! To me your entire argument has been to distract from the fear you have that I am right. I have never seen someone so eager to claim they are righteous without anything other than personal opinion or conjecture to back it up! While demanding that I finds a moral high horse to follow. Guess what? The reason I couldn't find one is because it does not exist. Not in any book, nor any authority! So lets talk about your God now! Lets see if you are not just trying to sell me a turd sandwich and label it as delicious! I'm going to let you have the last word about one thing: Show me in the bible where you consider god to be benevolent! Not just claiming to be benevolent! I have never understood the Jesus argument because it hinges on the Lucifer/ Adam and Eve story! If you take that story as a literal interpretation of our actual history then God help us all! The entire concept of Jesus saving us from "our sin" is nonsense! I do not take responsibility for something that does not exist! Why create a blood ritual for something that never had to exist to begin with. If you are a watch maker and the watch you make doesn't work. You do not blame the watch! So if you created a human with curiosity and give him access to the fruit of knowledge. You cannot blame the human, blame the creator. No need to crucify anyone if you are intelligent! just make it right to begin with. This God has unlimited powers but resorts to annihilation instead of guidance! Again the damaged child was damaged in God's machine. You do not forsake the child you either fix it or create it without flaws! So the burden of all that we consider to be good or bad lies within the limitations and boundaries of the creation.. Still not seeing how we could be responsible for something as innocuous as eating a piece of fruit! If you did not want him to know do not make it so! Leaving that off with a rhyme! I asked someone where morality came from before the bible was created to guide them! They said that God was involved with creation during that time! He personally guided them through Moses! Giving us the Ten commandments and mosaic laws. So by the time Noah came to be the mosaic laws and commandments were completely disregarded! Even with guidance humans were so flawed God decided to wipe the slate clean! This shows the horrifying failure of God's creation. Even with guidance! If you had empathy you would actually care that people were so violent and disgusting even God did not want them to exist! This is still all part of his "Divine Plan" where countless "children" do not make the cut for being loved by daddy! Then why did you make me? You knew this was coming! Evil! "My opponent sources a text where God punishes a king for committing adultery. God takes some of the wives of the king and gives them over to a neighbor of his. How is this cruel or unfair? The king was served justly and learned his lesson, and I'm very sure the neighbor was very happy with the circumstances. :)" You might want to take a test to see if you are a sociopath! Am I the only one who experiences empathy? How can you justify this. You are only proving my point! That is a sorry excuse for morality any way you look at it! "I see a God who gave Moses a law system for a Jewish society until the messiah came (and they are seemingly harsh laws when viewed through our modern day lens), and these were the best laws for an ancient society with limited resources and people." I see ignorance and gullibility! I see a set of principles that are not deemed fit to be considered ethical! I see a father who acts with all of the flaws that I see in my fellow humans. Leading me to believe he was invented by humans! I see manipulation and oppression! I see atrocity and darkness surrounding this deity that hopefully does not exist! I see a system where women and children come last if at all! I see selfishness, greed, and narcissism! NOT LOVE! I truly hope your God does not exist!