The Christian/Jewish God (Yahweh) most likely exists outside of peoples imagination.

Counter "If a supreme being does not objectively exist, then objective moral values do not exist.Objective moral values DO exist. Therefore a supreme being does exist." A. To clarify, it seems like pro says this 100% proves a god exist, but that is not true. B. They also have no source for their claims. This makes me to believe our debate will be mostly based on logic, which is fine. C. I do agree with premise one, but will argue with premise two, as I do not believe objective morals values actually exist. If objective morals are just certain moral absolutes, then objective morals do not exist. To almost all people, there is an objective moral difference between harming or caring for a baby. However, people have harmed, babies, obviously. If there are people who believe something different from what is considered objective morals, well then they are subjective morals. For something to be objective, it needs to be grounded in evidence. If I say, Donald Trump is running to be the Republican nominee in the U.S presidential election, then that is an objective claim, as we know there are videos, pictures, statements, and definitions to prove that claim, making it objective. To say that morals are objective, that means you have to prove that morals are absolute, like murder is wrong. Can you prove that? There is a debate going on right now on this site that argues for natural selection, letting the elderly and the mentally deficient die for their lack of contribution to society. Unless you can prove that, yes, murder is wrong, harming a baby is bad, and rape is bad, etc. you can not definitively say morals are objective. We can prove an objective claim, like, the internet does in fact exist as we know it, because we have history and evidence to prove that. Like if the internet is defined as: the global communication network that allows almost all computers worldwide to connect and exchange information. We can prove that through us communicating using information right now, and proof that people have done it across different continents. When you say morals are objective, you need evidence to back up that claim. As without proof, nothing is objective. If I say that the events that took place in the United States on September 11th 2001 were orchestrated by U.S president George W. Bush, and I do not present evidence to back up that claim, it is subjective. "This argument uses objective moral values to question God's goodness, but by its own concession of objective moral values, it's really validating Gods existence, just griping with God's decisions." A. Making an admission that you do not agree with children dying of bone cancer across the world does not make that objective, all it does is make that subjective to that atheist . If I say children should not die of bone cancer, that is my subjective belief, because I am not presenting evidence to that. It is a subjective value that most people share. B. I have heard this argument, and it is used usually not to disprove the existence of a deity, but rather to say why one would disagree with that deity is they exist, and to say why they find the teachings of the Christian God to be self contradictory. Because that is a subjective moral value that they find. Because they recognize if a God exists there would be objective moral values, one of those being killing kids is bad, which is a God specifically Yahweh did exist, would be meaning that killing kids is not a bad thing. C. If a God exists, and killing kids is bad is an objective moral value they created, and if it is Yahweh, who essentially controls the world like a game board instilled that value in all people and made it fact, and if you kill kids you are morally bad, then he is bad himself, while he is supposed to be all good. However if a God does not exist, then there are no objective moral values. If Yahweh exists, his actions are self contradictory. "the bible (and Torah) does not prompt Christians to take faith blindly." A. I know the Bible does at one point say to question everything. But then (correct me if I'm wrong) it implies at multiple points that non believers are sent to eternal damnation. This makes me believe it is saying that you can critical think, but if you do not decide to have faith in Yahweh you will be sent to eternal damnation. "For example seeing is believing." A. Seeing-the act of seeing someone or something. Maybe, but there is reason for this, when you see some one or something, your brain processes it. This is an involuntary action. You believe what you see, because that is how your brain works, and you have faith in your brain. You have reason to have faith in your brain, because your brain processes everything you hear, see, or feel. "Jesus gives prophecy concerning the destruction of the burning temple saying not one stone would be left atop another. In 70 AD, Romans under Titus Vesputian burned the temple causing gold to melt and run between the bricks, which were pried apart by legionnaires." A. You don't give sources for these, which is fine, but extend that to me too. B. Yes, that is true, however view this from a logical standpoint. Keep this in mind, if Yahweh is the deity, and knows everything that will happen specifically for all of the march of time, he should get everything right. If he does not get everything right, why didn't he? That would mean he purposely gave some vaguely true information, and some false information, let me highlight some false Bible prophecies. 1) In a prophecy in the Bible, Yahweh explains that Babylonian ruler Nebuchadnezzar, would completely sack and destroy Tyre, and that the land of Tyre would never by built on again, but this never happened. And this was a short term prophecy. There was a 13 year siege on Tyre, but eventually they compromised and accepted his authority without being destroyed. Even when Alexander the Great razed it 240 years later (which was not in the Bible) it still exists today. 2) The Bible states the Nile River would dry up, Ezekiel 30:12 "I will dry up the streams of the Nile and sell the streams to evil men; by the hand of foreigners I will lay waste the land and everything in it. I the LORD have spoken." Despite this, there is not a single piece of recorded evidence that this ever happened. The Nile River, did not dry up. This prophecy was false. There are plenty more, but I am running short on characters. So I will continue (give more next round.) So I have to ask, if Yahweh knows everything that will ever happen, why are some prophecies somewhat fulfilled, and some false? Besides prophecies, there are some things in the Bible that have been proven false. -At multiple points, the Bible eludes to the Earth being flat, or at least not being a sphere. Isaiah 11:12 "And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth."-What kind of Earth would have four corners, not a sphere. "Daniel 4:10-11. In Daniel, the king "saw a tree of great height at the centre of the earth" reaching with its top to the sky and visible to the earth's farthest bounds"-It is only with a flat Earth that this tree could be visible from the farthest bounds, not a spherical one. -The Noah's Ark story logically does not make sense for multiple reasons. Construction- The construction of the Ark supposedly took 70 years to make, and used gopher wood in order to make it 300 cubits long by 50 cubits wide, and 30 deep. A cubit is a form of measurement used by Ancient Egyptians. A standard cubit is about 18 feet long. The problem is Noah would not be able to acquire the wood he needed to built it, there was a ship built in 1511 called The Great Michael, which is said to have took "all the wood in Fife" which is a city in Scotland which is known for building ships, and on top of that wood had to be imported from France and other areas in the Baltic Sea to construct this. And it was only a fraction of the size of the Ark, so Noah would have needed tens of thousands of high quality trees to construct his Ark. Even if he could collect all the wood, his Ark would be almost as big as an aircraft carrier, and would not able to withstand the stress of the global ocean and would be too leaky. The largest known wooden boat ever proven to be built had a total length of 450 feet. Even to do this they required iron braces and constant mechanical pumps to start the hull from flooding. However, the Bible does not list any metal components in the construction of the Ark, which would definitely be needed. Animals-Let's say he could do that, and somehow managed to get 2 of every animal and a years worth supply of specific food for each of them (which he could't) It would be impossible to keep all the meat for the carnivores good without refrigeration. I really do not know how he would have some how separated the predators from each other and had no animals eating each other. Finally, how exactly did he get rid of all that feces?