A Christian cannot lose salvation

========== Witness ========== Jesus is the Savior of the world, And the one true path to salvation. Some will complain about the formula for salvation in Section 2. Really the formula looks more like this: ***** SAVED = Grace + what Jesus teaches in the Bible ***** Salvation is not a get-spiritually-rich-quick scheme. I took this debate because too many friends in High School had been taught that they can keep doing the same detestable things as the wicked as long as they "say a prayer in their heart accepting Jesus. " In an age of cynicism and voice-operated devices, That is a failing introduction. It teaches kids that they are done before they have even started. The goal of my witness is to point our minds and souls to the teachings of the Bible so that we can come to know what Jesus really says. To come to know our part to play in the everlasting covenant. Some say it requires "faith only" or "born again" or "works. " While we all want easy answers in life, We need to spend our lives coming to know Jesus and what He requires of us. The Church ought to be the best place to do this learning. While the Church waits for the young (in age or in the Word) to come to a true understanding, The worst message of all is to say that they ARE saved, And that they can NEVER LOSE that salvation. It engenders an aborted Christianity. A Christianity of idleness, Conceit, And depression. 1 ========== The Bible You agreed that evidence had to come from "the 66 books of the Bible. . . Not anything else. " In your arguments, You keep referring to your interpretation and your understanding. In Rounds 4 and 5 it came out that these are based on Calvinism. "Calvinism" and its so-called doctrine of the "preservation of the saints" are not found in the Bible, So they are not valid evidence in this debate. You were supposed to use the Bible to support your view, Not use your view to read the Bible. 2 ========== Definitions At the beginning you agreed that TRUE CHRISTIANS are people who 1) placed their faith in Jesus alone, 2) repented, 3) were born again, And 4) continue to follow Jesus. In other words: ---SAVED = (Grace) + faith + repentance + born again + is following--- As I promised, I brought several Bible references to clarify the "is following" part. You responded by removing "is following" with these two conflicting redefinitions: ---SAVED = (Grace) + born again--- ---SAVED = Predestination +/- nothing--- Clearly, We can't have 3 definitions, So the first must stand for this debate. 3 ========== Who's Who You think that I invented these different groups of people? I didn't say some are predestined but others are added (Eph 1). I didn't say that some will endure to the end and others won"t (Matt 24). I didn't make some into TRUE CHRISTIANS (John 10), Others into fake Christians (Matt 7), And a few into antichrists (1 John 2). The Bible says these things, Not me. 5 ========== Timing of gift of Salvation The list of scriptures we've reviewed with a PAST gifting of salvation: --Eph 2:5-8-- "you HAVE BEEN saved", But. . . Right after saying that the Ephesians HAD BEEN made alive and saved, Paul says, "And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus" (Eph 2:6). Unless you are willing to say that the Ephesians HAD BEEN seated with Christ in Heaven, There is something rhetorical in Paul"s use of the past tense. The list of scriptures we've reviewed with a FUTURE gifting of salvation: --Matt 24:13-- "the one who stands firm to the end WILL be saved" --2 Tim 4:8-- Paul's crown is LAID UP until Jesus awards him --John 3:3-- "see the Kingdom" AFTER being born again --John 3:5-- "enter the Kingdom" AFTER being born again --John 6:37-- who "the Father gives me" WILL come to Jesus --Eph 1:14-- Holy Spirit "is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance" UNTIL actual redemption --John 1:12-- "the right to BECOME children of God" --Phil 1:6-- Jesus WILL bring His "good work. . . To completion" --1 Cor 1:8-- kept firm "so that you WILL be blameless" when Jesus returns To which I add one final "good Bible explanation" for a FUTURE gifting of salvation: For the whole chapter of Matt 25, Jesus teaches that salvation comes to TRUE CHRISTIANS when He comes in glory. The 5 wise Virgins did not enter the feast until the Bridegroom arrived (v. 10). The 3 men with bags of gold did not settle their accounts until the Master returned (v. 19). The sheep and the goats were not separated until the Son of Man came in glory (v. 31). 8 ========== Falling Paul tells the Corinthians to "be careful that you don't fall! " You claim this fall means a Christian can backslide. "Backslide" is not found anywhere in the New Testament. In the Old Testament, It comes from the Hebrew term "shub, " which means "to turn back" (like when it is used in Ezekiel 18:24 & 26). Peter adds (2 Pet 3:10 & 17): "the day of the Lord will come like a thief. . . Be on your guard so that you may not. . . Fall from your secure position. " Ezekiel, Paul, And Peter agree that it is possible to fall. The clear reading of these three inspired men is that after becoming a TRUE CHRISTIAN, Unfaithfulness can lead to losing "your secure position" before salvation is gifted. Further, Jesus adds that this turning away from faith will happen to some before salvation is gifted in The End (Matt 24:10). ========== Conclusion ========== 2. When we exercise faith in Christ, Repent, Are born again, And continue following Jesus, We become TRUE CHRISTIANS. 8a. We are warned that we must stand firm, Endure, And continue following Jesus. 8b. If we stop following Jesus and turn away from our faith (or backslide), We lose our secure position (no longer counted as TRUE CHRISTIANS). 5. When The End comes, And Jesus arrives in His Glory, He will judge everyone and by His Grace irrevocably gift salvation to those who are still TRUE CHRISTIANS. 8c. Some one-time TRUE CHRISTIANS will not be gifted salvation, Because they turned away from faith and Jesus. 8d. Those who never-quite-became TRUE CHRISTIANS will not be gifted salvation, Even though someone told them "you are irrevocably saved" before they ever started on the path.