Who is the Greatest Batman Villian

There are two elements to this debate that I must establish. First I must establish that my opponent has failed to establish that Bane is "the Greatest Batman Villain". Second, I must establish that the Joker is the greatest. "Since I left out the Bane from Batman & Robin..." None of these were reasons to think of Bane as "the greatest", so I'll assume my opponent was kidding. My point still stands. "Talia al Ghul was a mastermind in the plot to destroy Gotham it was just as much as Bane's plan as her's." In the movie, ti was shown that despite them leading the viewer to believe that Bane was the elader of the League of Shadows, it was Talia. She was Bane's master, and you can't just state that it was "as much Bane's plan as her's" based on nothing. He was her servant. "Since you brought up Talia al Ghul I want to just say while Talia was in disguise as an employ of Wayne Industries, Bane did all the hard work, he beat Batman, blew up the city, hurt the stock market, able to get the necessary resources to make a nuclear bomb, and even protected Talia al Ghul in the Pit, without Bane she is dead as well as the master plan." I fail to see how the attributes that make someone a good henchman make someone the "greatest batman villain". "While in the comics Bane does need a steady dose of Venom to keep his super strength he doesn't necessarily need it." "[Bane] was captured, and re-implanted with the cranial tubes, hooked to the new Venom, but now unable to shake off his addiction without dying from the withdrawal." [1] Venom is highly addictive. The rest of your argument is that both Bane and the Joker have weaknesses. "While this is pretty messed up, Bane has some horrific injuries that occurred to his face and head. In prison he had his face mutilated by a swarm of angry prisoners and had surgery in that dirty prison and eventually had to get a mask." My point was that the Joker did this BY CHOICE, because he's so messed up and evil. Pointing out occasions in which Bane was defeated and mutilated does not seem to stand against it. "Bane has Talia al Ghul who you even mentioned being a mastermind unlike Harley who is more like a victim of wife beater syndrome." Bane ONLY has Talia in the Nolan movies. Everywhere else, he does not (Bane in the movie is conflated with Ubu, another amazingly strong character). While this doesn't negate the Talia he "has" in the movie, it's worth noting that there is a huge difference between being someone's henchman and being someone's significant other. Joker and Harley are dating, and Joker is the leader. In Nolan's Batman, Talia is the leader, and Bane is her loyal henchman. "This might be Bane's most amazing achievement he was able to rise from the ashes from Batman and Robin. Joker has never been tested like Bane and Bane was able to survive thanks to Nolan and Tom Hardy for their poytral of Bane which shows how great the character really is. Like what Thomas Wayne said. " And why do we fall, Bruce(Bane)? So we can learn to pick ourselves up." I don't think "He was portrayed very poorly a movie, and better in another" is a reason for a character to be "the greatest". "Can't say either is scarier its like choosing between having a Great White swimming toward you or have a Grizzly running after you just depends." You are saying that Bane is equally scary in principle to Joker. I would argue that's not the case, because either one of them could kill you, but only Joker is just as likely to kill you FOR NO REASON. I would argue that that is scarier. "Health Ledger moment of silence......didn't die because of him being the Joker it was just a tragic event and taught everyone to be careful with prescription medications." I agree that it was tragic. (I question whether anybody really learned a lesson...but agree they SHOULD). However, I didn't say the only reason that he died was the role, but rather that it may have contributed to his death. "Speaking to the New York Times about his role as the Joker in the Dark Knight, the 28-year-old revealed: "I probably slept an average of two hours a night. I couldn"t stop thinking. My body was exhausted and my mind was still going." He said one pill had no effect and confessed he usually took a second to make himself pass out, only to wake an hour later with his "mind still racing".[2] He died of an overdose of those pills. "Jack Nicholson, who played the Joker in 1989 - and who was furious he wasn't consulted about the creepy role - offered a cryptic comment when told Ledger was dead. "Well," Nicholson told reporters in London early Wednesday, "I warned him." [3] "When you take Joker and Bane, and compare the two and take out the bias it looks like Bane it just better. Joker fell into a chemical pot and became the Joker. Bane was born in a prison and had to learn to survive and killed his first person at age 8. Bane has a more interesting past." Bane's past is known, Joker's is unknown. There is no answer as to how interesting Joker's past was, nor is there a definitive explanation for his madness. I suppose whether that's more interesting is left up to the voters. The Joker has done better than Bane on every metric. He's succeeded in killing Batman, he's portrayed in more media, he's significantly injured/killed more BatFamily, he's scarier (although that's a more subjective point), Joker has had more variety in hsi past, going from god to "normal" person, while Bane is a proverbial "one trick pony". The only point my opponent brings up that stands so far is that Bane has achieved more, more quickly than the joker. I would argue that, considering the joker's origins lie in Batman #1 (1940). It was a different era in comics. By the time Bane showed up, the Joker had already killed Batman, Joker is no one's henchman. He's Batman's one true nemesis. He's got an entire crossover dedicated to him right now in the BatComics. My opponent has never refuted my point that the Joker's longevity I believe that I've established (as well as can be for a subject with as fuzzy and subjective nature) that Joker is the Greatest Batman Villain. Certainly, I believe I've established that while Bane is a fine villain, he is by no means as good as the Joker, who has killed Batman in the past but who also wouldn't stoop to winning "on a technicality". [4] He is Batman's "arch-villain" [5]. Thank you. [1] -- http://batman.wikia.com... [2] -- http://metro.co.uk... [3] -- http://www.nydailynews.com... [4] -- http://dc.wikia.com... [5] -- http://dc.wikia.com...