Ben Roethlisberger is the best QB out of the 2004 NFL draft

Thanks, Pro. Let's put a rest to the Playoff/Superbowl issue. I said, "While it undoubtedly is to Ben's credit that he's achieved post-season success, it's hardly a strong contention in favor of him being the superior QB" for the exact reason I explained and which Pro agrees -- that not every great athlete wins a championship. Both my opponent and myself acknowledge this reality, yet Pro insists that this should be of utmost consideration, or at least highly important, to the testament that Ben R. is the better QB just because he's won a Superbowl. In previous rounds, I mentioned that ON PAPER the Steelers looked like the superior team to the Chargers. My reasoning included the fact that in addition to their stellar defense and great new coach, the Steelers boasted two Superbowl MVP Wide Receivers (Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes). Obviously having this caliber of receivers on your team boasts a QB's opportunities, so Ben had an advantage in this regard. This is further demonstrated by these two receivers being rated among the TOP SIX WR'S IN ALL-TIME STEELER HISTORY, with Ward being ranked #1 [1]. Yes, Antonio Gates is a great Tight End and Tomlinson made a bunch of catches for Rivers as well. However a receiver-happy RB and decent TE does not compare to multiple MVP Wide Receivers when it comes to comparing who compliments a QB for receiving most favorably. This is because Safetys and Corners for instance have to be concerned with multiple deep threats for the Steelers as opposed to simply the short pass or slant route. Once again, the caliber of these receivers undoubtedly strengthens Ben's opportunities as far as a passing game is concerned. Pro cannot deny this. By the way - Steelers TE Heath Miller is not too shabby! [2] [ Note: To clarify, when I mentioned Sweed, I was noting that he was supposed to be a great Steeler addition though being plagued with injuries and other problems has kept him off the field. That said, just because I accidentally called Hines Ward Charlie Ward one time does not mean my opponent should talk down to me and insult me over a typo. This is bad conduct, evidenced by his increasingly condescending tone throughout the last round. ] Up next - Pro says it's nonsensical to suppose the Chargers had an inferior team given their success. However my point was that Ben had a strong support system: great coaches, amazing receivers, etc. and yet he could not win as many games as Rivers did with a less than impressive supporting cast. Yes, Gates and Tomlinson (a RB) were phenomenal players, but considering Ben's opportunities and other advantages he should have at LEAST put up better numbers than Rivers, if not won as many games. However he didn't win as many games, and his numbers did not excel past Rivers. They have the exact same completion rating, and Rivers has the higher TD percentage, and gains better yardage both in terms of averages and overall yards earned. Once again, the reason I'm saying to take Playoff statistics with a grain of salt is because the Steelers have had far more experience, so there's not much for the Chargers to compare to. Nobody's taking away from Ben's accomplishments, however just because he got to the Playoffs already gives him a (slight) edge over Rivers to begin with. Of course since Rivers didn't make the Playoffs much, he obviously didn't make the Superbowl thus there's no stats to compare in this regard. Bragging about Ben's Superbowl numbers when there aren't Rivers Superbowl numbers is a futile attempt at distinguishing superiority under the same kind of pressure situation. Plus, the Chargers came so close to reaching the championship several times, such as when they lost in the divisional round of the playoffs several seasons in a row - like to the Pats, and then the Jets by just 3 points, respectively, last season. Again, I'm not saying we should discount Ben's post-season numbers, but since Rivers has so few, there's not much to compare meaning this is hardly a good assessment of pairing the match-up between the two QBs. Since we've all already agreed that phenomenal players often don't make the post-season (see: LeBron James), then it means we can't use this against Rivers to a large degree; we can make a note of it, but at the end of the day only compare the stats from when both players have had the chance to play at the same time for the same amount of time (the regular season). In doing so, we see that Rivers consistently put up better numbers than Ben. Next, indeed Pro's error in confusing the Superbowl seasons dismantles his point. His entire point was that the Chargers did better in the regular season during those years, yet it was the Steelers who went on to win the Superbowl despite having a worse regular season record. However, the Steelers did NOT have a worse regular season record during the years they went on to win the Superbowl! Therefore, this point is entirely moot. Moving on, Pro agrees that it's "impossible" to know how Rivers would have fared had he started at QB his first 2 seasons in the NFL. As such, he acknowledges that it's pointless to guess, so all we have to go on is evaluate the years that Rivers DID start. Ben still has an advantage in this regard, because if we start comparing from that year (2006 season), Ben already had 2 entire seasons under his belt as the starting QB in the NFL whereas Rivers did not. Nevertheless, Rivers had a 92 rating that year compared to Ben's 75! Ben had 18 TDs and 23 INTs, while Rivers had 22 TDs and only 9 INTs! Ladies and gentlemen, the numbers speak for themselves. Not only were Rivers' rookie season numbers better than Ben's, but they were far better that year than Ben's, who by that time was a veteran. [ Note: Indeed Rivers only had 11 4th quarter career comebacks; Big Ben has 17, but remember he's played in 14 more games. ] *** -- REBUTTAL -- Pro says Ben's: 1. regular season cumulative stats are better --> How so?! In R2 I provided statistics with CITATIONS proving Rivers averages more TD passes per game, more yards per game, and more yards in general than Ben! What stats of Ben's are better, exactly? 2. regular season per game stats are comparable --> Uh, not really. See above. 3. Playoff stats are more important and better by a large margin --> I've explained why they're not much more important. Once again, it takes an entire TEAM to succeed in the Playoffs; Ben can't be given all the credit. 4. More regular season wins --> No, actually the Chargers have had a better winning record every single year that Rivers has started in comparison to the Steelers except for 2008-2009, the Steelers' championship season (despite the fact that Pro indicated otherwise). 5. more playoff wins --> See above; doesn't count for much. 6. better playoff win percentage --> Lol, you're really holding on to this aren't you? 7. 2 Superbowls --> Haha, I guess so. *** -- CONCLUSION -- Phil Rivers has put up numbers comparable and/or BETTER than Ben despite Ben having so many MVP receivers on his team; two extra years of NFL experience; a better staff; etc. Rivers has an overall better QB rating, has won more regular season games, gained more yards, averages more yards, etc. The ONLY thing Pro has demonstrated is that Ben has more Playoff and Superbowl wins... big deal. That can't be held against Rivers for all aforementioned reasons. In comparing the two's performance these past 4 years that Rivers has started, Rivers out-does Ben consistently in every area except for post-season wins, which is only one (small) of many considerable factors. We can assume that if Rivers were on the Steelers, his numbers would excel far past Ben's. Also, extend my arguments regarding Ben losing the title of captain, and other forfeited and/or dropped arguments by my opponent. Thank you. [1] http://tinyurl.com... [2] http://tinyurl.com...