The discussion of politics belongs in the bar

My heart is in it, because while I regularly do what this debate is about, I am still aware of the problems it has created for me. I can remember many of the times that bringing up politics and religion has cost me socially. I just don't seem to give a damn all that much. I think you're making much more out of it than is deserved. If someone is your friend for any length of time, then you have most likely discussed politics in some length. If there is an issue where a community needs to come together for something, or if you need to know your neighbor's politics, you can do both those in a much better context than in a bar and with people you don't know. You would hopefully know your friends and your neighbors. If you don't know your neighbors, then you probably aren't caring that much about your community as a whole. That first impression is genuine because you are not your political beliefs. You are much more than that. You are much more likely to be discriminated against if you throw your political and religious beliefs out for everyone who doesn't know you at all to see. Once you get to know people, and they get to know you for being a human being instead of just a bunch of talking points and intractable beliefs, they are much more likely to accept you once they do find out your beliefs. I base a lot of my argument on that belief because it has often worked out that way. Like I said, these maxims exist for a reason. They are practical and take into account human nature. People do not usually react well to having their core beliefs challenged. This is magnified under the influence of alcohol. Granted, these are more extreme examples. What is much more likely is that you will turn off everyone around you who are there to simply have a good time and talk about much less weighty topics. You can trust me on that one. I have repeatedly brought down the atmosphere of an outing or completely bored people by bringing up politics or religion. People tend to get bored more with politics, while they get pissed with religion. My own informal studies back his up. For the sake of your less politically-involved friends, keep politics to times when they are not out to simply have a good time. We don't have to give up on democracy, just on our lack of ability to find anything else to talk about. Just because we don't talk politics 24/7 does not mean we become empty vessels for pundits to fill up with their incompetence. I think it is unreasonable to claim such things. Again, I think you're taking a good idea too far. Most people do not have the time to engage in politics. Discussing politics in a bar with them when they are just trying to relax after a long day's work is not going to get them to suddenly become engaged in the process. You're just going to piss them off. The more you do it, the more you will piss them off. Consensus can still be arrived at without having to force political debates on people who don't want to have them in a bar. For all of American history, the majority of people have not been politically engaged, but we've still managed pretty well so far. Sure, the Greeks were very important to the creation of our political mindset. But just because one of them said something doesn't mean that it was a great idea. The Greeks were not infallible, despite their founding status of democracy. I can positively tell you that, if my drunken mind says something is a good idea, it is almost assuredly not. If I had to get both my sober and drunk minds to agree on something before I did it, I would never get anything done. Not only that, I would have to get drunk a lot more than I do just to attempt to get stuff done. This might have been an aspect of Greek philosophy, but that doesn't mean it was a good one. We do need discussion in society to keep our government effective, but that doesn't mean we need to introduce ourselves as "Hi. My name is Eric. I'm a liberal democrat who doesn't believe in god. Let's talk about your evangelical dogma and why its wrong over a few beers." This would not have flown well with my new boss or the parents of my girlfriend the first time I met them. I would have seriously hurt my own cause in both instances had I done anything remotely like that. Oh, I am one of the last people to confuse our founding fathers with the legends most people want to believe. I'm sure Sam Adams got drunk often. Hell, even Washington thought it was patriotic to start up your own distillery to make American whiskey and not rely on the British. I just thought that Sam Adams did most of his drinking after the time in which he was most important to the cause, kind of like telling the young guys all his tales of glory over a pitcher of his own ale. I wish Adam's own brew was still around, because I still maintain that the modern day Sam Adams sucks. Except for their seasonal versions, especially their winter lager. That stuff is really tasty and has, at times, led me to some really dumb ideas.