The Bible is an immoral bit of utter crap.

The general claims seem to be akin to the idea that the Bible doesn't matter, that those part of the Bible aren't true anymore. Why should this be the case at all? If the Bible is moral, I should be unable to cite anything that isn't the utmost moral sentiment of all time. However, I bring up various genocides depicted in the bible and my opponent attempts to shrug them off by saying it "was actually a town invasion". Clearly a genocide would be very naughty, but killing all the men and women and young boys of a town and keeping the young girls to rape is different? The Bible is littered with such petty genocides. (Jeremiah 50:21, Judges 21:10-24, Numbers 31:7-18, Deuteronomy 20:10-14). When murdering the Midianites they killed all the men and gathered up the remaining villagers. And then Moses comes by and he gets pissed that they haven't slaughtered all the women. You can keep the virgins for some raping, but murder the women and kids for God's sake (literally for God's sake)! We are asked to consider this moral because it was *only* a town full of people. They only specifically murdered all the Midianites, that may technically be genocide, but only tens of thousands. This is your argument that the Bible isn't an immoral bit of utter crap? Insufficient death? -- I am offended by your insinuations. The idea that calling the Bible an immoral bit of utter crap should be offensive to you is a joke. ; it's absolutely true. No amount of arm waving about how genocides are fine, rape is fine, and murder people is fine is going to excuse this. You have no right to be offended by the truth being observed about a book. While certainly if I said a hurtful truth about you, one could see justification. However, I am simply expressing a simple truth about a horrible book. In the comments of this debate a commenter chimed in "how can the bible be immoral if the bible is what decides what morals are! ?" to which you replied, "exactly! " -- Seriously? Rape, genocide, blood sacrifice, child sacrifice, slavery, homophobia, thought crimes, and you have the audacity to claim that these are basis of morality? How dare you? Our government and our morality today are largely secular and we are better for this. We do good, when we do the most good for the most people. You would have us believe that we do good by following the Bible. That because Gandhi didn't accept the God of the OT (violating the first commandment), that murdering him wouldn't have been acceptable today, but we can be happy that he's now burning in hell forever. This is equally as barbaric, equally as immoral, and equally as disgusting. The only redemption of these immoral claims are their falseness. --- I didn't bring up slavery as some distant bit of trivia. You can't say "it was a different time. " because it was 150 years ago. This country is still haunted today by the ghosts of slavery. It was wiped out by a largely secular movement fighting against the letter of the Bible which condoned slavery and gave the pious in the south, a moral argument. I'm not talking about myths like Exodus which you claim was "the only time where there was all-out slavery on a defenseless culture was with Egyptians vs. Israelis", that didn't happen. Archeologically there is no exodus, there weren't any Jewish people at that time and the Jewish identity grew up after that from the local populations. I'm talking about actual chains and slave ships. I'm talking about people owning people in contemporary existence. I'm talking about real pain and real evil being condoned by the Bible. "The Bible certainly did teach that slavery was a perpetual institution. Its chains were forged in heaven, by God himself, and so fastened, that no power could sunder them but His. " - Ebenezer Warren ". .. the church of this country is not only indifferent to the wrongs of the slave, it actually takes sides with the oppressors. It has made itself the bulwark of American slavery, and the shield of American slave hunters. Many of its most eloquent Divines . . . have shamelessly given the sanction of religion and the Bible to the whole slave system. They have taught that man may, properly, be a slave; that the relation of master and slave is ordained of God; that to send back an escaped bondman to his master is clearly the duty of all followers of the Lord Jesus Christ" - Frederick Douglass -- "Actually, most of the "unclean" laws went away with the death of Jesus. " I have it on good authority that not a jot or tittle went away. -- "Also, because most people agree that homosexuality is a sin, it is actually moral for those people to not practice homosexuality. " The idea that homosexuality is a sin, that being different is being wrong, that loving is evil is completely immoral. And the fact that you think this is, like DATCMOTO's defense of thought crimes, a good argument that the Bible is an immoral bit of utter crap. Homophobia isn't biblically justified. The fact that the Bible is used as a justification, shows that the Bible is wrong, not homosexuality. -- "Blood sacrifice ENDED with Jesus. Anything before that can be called history, the past, what once was. " My point isn't that it ended but that the very *idea* of blood sacrifice is immoral. That causing innocents to bleed and die makes you a better person is barbaric. The fact that Christianity's central core is that of blood sacrifice is, in and of itself, the immoral bit. -- "Why do you think Christians go to church on Saturday? " The rules to keep the sabbath is more than attending a Saturday service (though Sunday is far more typical). -- "However, you give no reason for the Bible to be unable to copy good rules. " True. It is able to copy good rules. Just as it copied down some good proverbs. The fact that this is so, doesn't make the Bible moral. It means that the good parts have nothing to do with the Bible. -- "That was history of Israel; the Ten Commandments said nothing of the sort. Hey, times were stricter back then. " Women were property, it was theft to use another man's property. Such laws aren't constitutional today because the rights of women and men are paramount rather than some bronze aged property claims. Marriages are largely based on love rather than on property arrangements. The punishments for violating the commandments is death. -- "Well, yeah, because we chose not to be an entirely Christian nation, but there were still influences. " We chose to be a secular nation. The fact that we got absolutely none of our laws from Christianity should be telling; They were immoral laws. They are not acceptable in a modern and just culture. Freedom of religion comes directly out of the enlightenment, and is the very definition of a secular ideal. -- "I'm still not going to spend 50 minutes watching your facts. As I already said, you should cite facts within those videos to use, or else they're not part of your argument. " To cite the facts would take more than 50 minutes. The Bible is written largely as self-aggrandizing etiology to glorify the past. Most of it is completely false. -- "That doesn't mean that the rod isn't metaphorical. " You can beat children with it and make them cry. We are told to keep beating them even if they cry, because it's good for them. .. such wisdom! -- "The past is the past, but today, the Bible is indeed wise. If you were to follow Proverbs today, you would be wise. " Actually many of those proverbs would get me arrested. -- "it WAS war. .. " Even when the women were gathered up and defenseless and slaughtered? -- "Bit - a small piece or quantity of some material thing" The Bible isn't the complete set of utter crap, it's simply a bit of utter crap. Surely you've heard this part of speech before. -- Thank you for reading.