Death Penalty

"Can you prove that this is more costly than my number in R2? The number in my round 2 doesn't even take in the costs of medicine and some other expensive things. I also did not take into account in my number, the costs of additional prisons that would have to made to hold these people who do not deserve to live." I will not re-post my sources at this late juncture. If you examine the materials I have provided, you will see that the costs of holding a death row inmate are greater than the costs of switching to a purely life sentencing system. "You would need very strong undoubtable evidence to convict somebody of the crime. With strong undoubtable evidence especially with the technological advances such as IDing with finger prints and hair. I seriously doubt its as high as high as 12%. I would like for you to post your source so I can better refute your argument." The source is posted. Reforming the system would cause it to cost twice as much. I will quote it for you: "Using conservative rough projections, the Commission estimates the annual costs of the present (death penalty) system to be $137 million per year. The cost of the present system with reforms recommended by the Commission to ensure a fair process would be $232.7 million per year. The cost of a system in which the number of death-eligible crimes was significantly narrowed would be $130 million per year. The cost of a system which imposes a maximum penalty of lifetime incarceration instead of the death penalty would be $11.5 million per year. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org... That's for your home state. There are other facts available for different states and federal sentencing. "The death penalty most definitely not unconstitutional. You say that you cannot deprive somebody of life or liberty without applying the due process of law. But criminals lose some legal rights when they decide to break the law. For example if you are convicted of a felon you lose your voting right. If you murder somebody similarly you lose your right to life." Due process only applies when you are accused of breaking the law. I am not saying that the death penalty is unconstitutional. I am saying that any penalty applied without due process is unconstitutional. Also, what good does it do to focus on lost rights? That doesn't fix anything. All it does it provide retribution … costly retribution. "When executions started rising in the early 90's to the year 2000 murder rates began to decline. Why is this? http://wiki.idebate.org...... Many other similar studies have concluded the same thing. http://www.redorbit.com...; Answer to your studies: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org... http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org... The problem with studies is that they are prone to flaws in methodology. Statistics just count numbers … in this case, recorded murders per 1,000 people per state with a death penalty. The benefits of a death penalty should show up in the numbers, with fewer incidents of murder in those states with a death penalty than without, and with an increase in murder for those that eliminate it. This has not happened; therefore, the deterrent prediction is false. As for your statistics, that is a flat measure of executions to murders. All that means is that we catch them more often and have less murder. Here's another event that correlates with the increase in number of murders: http://en.wikipedia.org... Note that we have also been steadily killing more people, which would not be what I would call deterrence: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov... Correlation does not prove causation. Statistics can, however, refute predictions. Such as the prediction that implementation of the death penalty would reduce murder rates, a necessary showing to make an assertion of deterrence. "Murder is the key word here. You can legally KILL somebody if its in self defense. The state legally kills people to prevent those people from killing innocent lives." You also can not legally kill someone if they are incapacitated and no longer could be reasonably considered an immediate threat. Punishment is a process that occurs after people are caught, not in the middle of the act. "Rape is on the rise, burglary is on the rise, almost every crime you can think of is on the rise." Nope. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov... http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov... http://en.wikipedia.org... Some go up, some go down. Punishment has little to do with why some people commit certain kinds of crimes. Most are going down, by the way. "I misunderstood what my source said I apologise for that. One of my sources said that North Carolina banned "some" executions. But you can still see how the fewer executions in the state lead to more murders." Actually, North Carolina began reducing the number of executions for a number of reasons entirely unrelated to the penalty itself: http://www.newsobserver.com... Look at the chart in your chart source again and you will see that the murder rate going from 2006-2007 remains relatively stable. It's technically lower than it was prior to 2006.