Final Fantasy VII debate: Aerith's........

Allow me to note that Con has dropped each and every one of his arguments. He is the instigator and carries a burden of proof, so not responding to my counterpoints essentially loses him the debate. I will respond, however, to his counterpoints of my positive case, in the same format as Pro made them. 1) I argued that Aries' death was one of the greatest moments in gaming history, not the greatest. Gamespy was ranking the most 'cinematic' moments in gaming - a vague term that is not only tied with visuals or theme tunes. This point is obvious from the clip - Aries' death isn't particularly visually impressive, though the music is rather haunting. If the ranking system were only about visuals or music, other scenes from FF7 itself would have ranked higher. Rather, the scene was ranked higher for other reasons - specified in Gamespy's account as the emotional impact of Aries' death. Con attempts a bizarre pseudo-psychological explanation of the fact that video game fans everywhere regard Aries' death as a seminal moment in gaming history - saying, essentially, that gamers are confusing their own emotional response to a good character being killed off with great storytelling. However, it is important to note that this line of argument is impossible. The main reason people often say that Aries' death was an important moment was because of the emotional toll it exacted. Because of the shock and sadness of losing the character so suddenly and brutally that storytelling moment has been praised. Stepping back from the emotional response to the death of a main character to assess its worth as part of the plot is like burning off your own taste buds to 'objectively' assess the taste of some food. The greatness of the moment is so tied up with the emotional response it invoked that to remove oneself from that is missing the whole point. Con says "The plot did not even build up to her death either. It was just thrown in there" That was the whole point! That's why the death was so emotionally compelling - it didn't happen for any higher purpose. There was no warning. It was just a brutal death at the hands of an evil antagonist, and therein lies the draw of the scene.A) The answer to this is rather simple - all the spells that revive characters in the battle system revive characters that have been *knocked out* or K.O.'d, not out and out killed. Besides, what is this supposed to prove? In most RPG's there is a disconnect between what happens during cut scenes and what happens during gameplay. In the actual story people don't take turns to attack each other or drink potions to recover their 'HP'. Those are just gameplay elements that are disconnected plotwise from the overarching story. B) I have no idea what the argument is supposed to be here. Um, interesting exposition of death mythos from FF?2) That's about right, though I was really letting the makers themselves make the case. a) This just misses the point - it is true, of course, that brave sacrifices do sometimes happen in real life. However, the point is that in gaming the plotlines far too often use that plot point to the point of cliché - it is overused, whereas in real life death is often brutal short and unexpected. Don't many more people die suddenly and even pointlessly in war?b) You are, once again, missing the point - Aries' death was more natural and realistic within the context of the game. This may appear paradoxical, but it isn't really. Just because a story takes place in a fantasy world doesn't mean that it can get away with using cliché, deux ex machinas or absurd coincidences - those spoil the immersion in the fantasy world. Far from helping escapism into a video game, clichéd plotlines break immersion. Obviously Aries' death wasn't realistic in the sense that she died in a way similar to how people die in the real world - she was killed by a sword wielding genetic experiment that flew in from the sky. But that isn't the sense in which the word 'real' was being used. c) I don't really get this point. As pointed out, bringing Aries back would cheapen the dramatic impact of the scene. d) Frankly, I don't think that the death scene would have been nearly as emotional in Barrett had died. Barrett was a walking, mildly racist, Mr T stereotype. He might have been memorable, but he certainly wasn't as interesting or well developed a character as Aries was at that point in the game. Barrett's death simply wouldn't have had the emotional impact that Aries' death did, and it is doubtful that it would have become a classic moment in gaming history.