A Christian can lose their salvation 2

Since my opponent seems to prefer the NIV, that's the translation I'll use unless otherwise stated. Now to address the passages he used: 1. John 10:27-29 Jesus says no one can "snatch" them out of his hands, he doesn't say they can't choose to leave. As long as you are one of his sheep you will never perish, but only if you remain one of his sheep till the end. Matt 24:13 places the condition on salvation that one must endure to the end. If it were impossible to lose salvation, it would not be conditional on their endurance. Many who once served God chose to turn away. Why would the Bible writers waste so much effort warning us not to go astray from the path if it were impossible to lose our salvation? A person who accepted Jesus could thus become homosexual, and a rapist till he dies and still be saved. This is the logical conclusion of the once-saved always saved doctrine. That God will let you into his kingdom no matter what you do after you are saved, which is impossible, for if you blaspheme against the Holy Spirit you won't ever be forgiven. (Matt 12:31-32) Even Paul says some actions can stop us from being saved if we don't repent. (1 Cor 6:9-10) The alternative is to argue that a saved person could not do wicked acts to the extent that they lose their salvation. But this implies that God takes away their free will to choose not to obey, and are now like robot machines with no choice but to serve God. This isn't really serving God from the heart, but a mockery of salvation, where God drags the unwilling sinner on the ride to heaven. 2. Deuteronomy 31:6 The Lord will never leave us nor forsake us, on the condition that we remain faithful to him. In the previous chapter Moses tells God's people (many of whom I assume were already saved) that if they obey God he would stay on their side, but if they left him, they would perish. (Deu 30:15-19) In fact, surprising you mention Deu 31, because in verses 16-18 of that same verse God promises that he would "forsake" Israel when they turned away from him to worship other gods. 3. Philippians 1:6 Yes, God will continue to work in us as long as we obey him, but in Phil 2:12 Paul tells us to "keep working out" our own salvation with fear and trembling. This shows that the final, ultimate salvation of the individual is not yet closed until that person is dead. If there was possibility of losing salvation once gained, they would not need to keep working it out all the time. Paul was writing to believers who were already saved. 4. 1 John 5:13 I know I have $5, does that mean I can't loose it? No; know that you have something is not proof you can't loose it. Because they have eternal life doesn't mean they can't loose it. 5. Revelations 22:17; John 4:14 Remember, these things are all conditional. One must read the word in order to keep filled spiritually. (Psalm 1:1-4) He must also pray, and do other things to keep his relationship with God alive. If one does not do these things, his relationship will become weak and he will get thirsty again. Now, what is the water being spoken about in these passages? The word of God that nourishes us like water. "What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow." (1 Cor 3:5-6) It is the word that gives life, hence Jesus says "The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life." (John 6:63) Paul says "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word." (Eph 5:25-26) Here again the word is likened to water. So "the water of life" is God's word, his instructions, that we must take hold of in order to really life. This is a condition of maintaining one's salvation; without this life-giving water, we would die, for man must live not on bread alone, but one every word from the mouth of God. (Matt 4:4) If we don't feed ourselves spiritually, we'll become spiritually sick, and dead. 6. Hebrews 7:25 This verse is talking about what Jesus "can" do, not what he "will" do for "every" single person. Just because some let go of their salvation does not mean Jesus can't save them completely. 7. Romans 8:31-39 Nothing can separate us from God's love under the conditions that we choose to remain in his love. Notice Paul warns that we can actually loose out on God's favor. Paul says: "You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off." (Rom 11:19-22) Paul is saying that the natural branches (Hebrews) were cut off because of lack of faith, so if Gentile Christians don't remain in the faith, they too will be cast off. Note the condition "provided you continue in his kindness," so salvation is dependant on our continuing faithful to God. Here are some verses that indicate a Christian can lose his salvation: Heb. 10:26, 27, RS: "If we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries." Heb 6:4-6 "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned." These folks were obviously saved, really saved, they had been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, shared in Holy Spirit, tasted not just the goodness of the word but also the powers of the world to come, so these were genuine Christians, yet, they fall away to the point beyond repentance, and end up being destroyed. Here is a classic case of losing one's salvation. I close with these questions: if a person is saved, can he choose to become an atheist? If not, why not? Does God force him not to believe this? And if so, is this not salvation by force? How does free will enter into all this? And if God is saving people against their will, why only save some and not all? I look forward to my opponent's anwers.