The Jesus Myth Debate

1. Keep in mind through this debate that I do not believe in supernatural events. (only natural events that have not been explained yet) The story of Adam, Eve, Noah, Abraham, Job..etc. fit in well with the stories of Perseus, "mud man and rib woman", Muhammad, Horace, Vishnu...etc. Also, Something could be extremely important to you and somewhat of a banality to others! I have found that the same thing that makes us different also makes us interesting and wonderful! The problem with Christianity, Muslim, Mormon.. etc is that they are extremely intolerant of those differences! Its a convenient little device to be on the "One Boat" to paradise as you watch the millions of other boats burn because they didn't believe in the right book! Hell is eternal.. no lesson to be learned or any way out. I would say that an all powerful entity throwing "His Children" in the lake of fire for not understanding the Resurrection story. Definitely not father of the year material. I keep hearing about God not intervening with free will but will commit mass genocide instead of providing guidance. I will explain this the best I know how.. Free will is determined and constricted to the time you have to use it. Being alive is the central pillar of "Free will" So if God intervenes by "Sending a Flood" That severely affects their free will seeing as how they have not a life to use it! If I have a child that commits suicide the first thing I will ask myself "Where did I go wrong" This thing I have created is broken.. This is MY FAULT! Btw If you buy a watch and it breaks in 10 days.. you blame the watch maker.. not the watch! I would also like to add that no Father could throw his child in hell regardless of what that child did let alone believed!My rejection of the Judeo Christian God is justified because I don't want him to be my Dad (The one I have works fine for me) I have to apologize for my tone.. It just comes out that way but I assure you that it is nothing personal, I just get a little edgy when talking about burning for eternity. 2. Our morality comes from a Darwinian impulse for self preservation. When we choose to be moral we are simply the mice choosing not to eat the electric pellet! I will use an extreme example of Saddam Hussein.. Not alot of morel choices came from this wicked man.. but do you think this went unpunished? He found out fast that he would spend his life waiting for the sniper bullet to take him out.. constantly on the run and then finally killed. This "Justice comes from an inherent need to protect ourselves and the innocent! He certainly did not "Get away with it"! He crossed the morel line and paid for it dearly! I could go my entire life without the influence of religion and know that kicking a pregnant woman in the stomach is not a morel act! Hell does not deter me from killing or stealing.. my self preservation and desire for freedom does! 3. We are both right! Animal sacrifices were sort of a temporary substitute until Jesus became the final sacrifice. "Without the shedding of blood there can be no forgiveness" (unnecessary and sadistic rule God made up) What type of event do you think would cause these people to think.. "Gods mad we better kill something"? I would either think that they were malicious and loved to kill animals or something was happening (Drought, Famine) To make them think that they have made God angry! You have not convinced me that "Sin" is anything other than our animal urges that we repress for our own survival! I believe that you can never be separate form God and our "Sins" is something that eats at our Ego and causes shame. You care about this so much that you would expect God to care if you look at a woman other than your spouse with lust! I believe that everything that we are was perfect as intended and the fear of punishment in the afterlife is a shenanigan to help sell books and fill churches! There is no reason to assume that the resurrection happened in reality or that there was any reason for it! The concept is mind numbing white noise! The implications of not believing this convoluted story is far to great for me to allow it to manipulate me into believing! I would like to point out that resurrection myths are not localized to Jesus alone! ( Baal,Melqart,Adonis,Eshmun,Tammuz, Ra the Sun god with its fusion with Osiris/Orion, and Dionysus. Inanna/Ishtar, Persephone, and Bari. Horus, Mithra The Phoenix.. All resurrected! Not to mention around the same time a Jesus mass graves opened up and the dead rose, kind of a common event during those days! "But what would be the point to this discussion anyways if your mind wasn't open?"- Can we continue this debate with closed minds? Opening up my mind brings in all sorts of possibility. Meaning any religion could be right. Vampires and the bogeyman become real if you let them! My argument is that I don't think your point of view is desirable! But we can still debate! 4. First off premarital sex can increase risk of contracting disease.. but getting married isn't exactly an immunity to these diseases! We do not need someone to tell us at the end that we "Took the wrong path"! That is not constructive nor does it provide the image of a loving God! We don't learn anything from it because we are left forgotten in the abyss! Suicide is usually caused by a mental illness that prevents the desire for self preservation.. you may as well have died from any other illness! Our "sinful nature" is just nature.. we provide the judgement known as sin! It has nothing to do with our God and should not be a focus or even allowed to exist outside of fiction! Sin is nothing ore than an idea created by man caused by guilt. Guilt is a self defence mechanism and a tool for learning your mistakes, it is not "Good or bad" we make it so! 5. Funny how the word "freedom" you describe is actually called servitude or slavery! There have been many discussions about whether or not humans secretly desire to be controlled leaving responsibility to the puppeteer. I believe that the resurrection myth is set apart from the rest of the bible. We did not get eye witness testimonials. In fact no one who lived during the time of Jesus wrote about him at all. Even though word of someone walking on water or healing the sick, being born of a virgin, claiming to be God until he is tortured, killed and the resurrected would spread fast. Instead we have gospels and scriptures written 20-200 years later! Long after every eye witness had died, or witnesses of the apostles dying for their claim that Jesus had risen! Why did Paul wait until he was almost dead to write about seeing Jesus risen from the grave? So I doubt that the story happened as told. More than likely someone back then named Jesus was crucified. But there is hardly evidence that he rose from the dead! Or that he died for anything other than the sadistic nature of people back then! I will state again that rising from the dead was a very popular "urban legend" at the time! Nothing new at all.. so why would it matter even if he did resurrect? It would be like watching Lazarus rise and thinking that's good enough I'm sold, but none of us are given that certainty.. we only have faith that we didn't just make up the story! So, I will recap quickly. 1. "Hell is required, due to God giving humans free will." Not making the connection 2. Hell is not the result of a need for punishing bad behavior. Because then where did morality come from? Hell is the cleanup crew for "Gods mistakes" Wash His hands of us.. Morality is a natural process that is not reliant upon a Deity! 3. "Sacrifices had nothing to do with trivial matters. They were about reconciliation with God. Hence, Jesus being the Last Sacrifice." I would still argue that the sacrifices were a desperate attempt to survive not be redeemed! 4. Sin is carnal, but is not "animal" due to its self-destructive nature. Out of r 5. A logical being can believe in God without fear.