cause+effect=logic(cause and effect is logic)

"there is no logic in fantasy, that's why I can imagine jumping of a cliff and slamming into the ground and nothing actually happens besides perhaps and emotional response, where as we can reason about this and come the conclusion that jumping off a cliff would be unreasonable, and what determines it is unreasonable is the cause and effect relation of my body and the ground, if I had the power of superman it would be reasonable for me to jump, yet it would be reasonable for me to jump if I wanted to die, because logic is so, yet if I was superman it would be unreasonable to jump if I wanted to die, as it is an insufficient way to kill myself, based on logic. logic is the measurement of reasonable" First, that hurt to read, and second that (ironically) makes no logical sense. You've actually created a logical case here by stating that if you were to jump off a cliff but could fly it would make sense (why?) or if you wanted to commit suicide you could leap off a cliff and you would die (though you could also just be bungee jumping and then you wouldn't die and you'd have a lot of fun while at it) so you concluded from your theoretical situation with parameters you set that the outcome should be X whatever that was. You are actually proving me correct. Logic itself only works within those parameters; the statements inside of the parentheses are meant to be alternatives to your set implicit parameters and if taken they too are sound. The soundness of your mental exploration only persists because of exactly what I said; there is no derivative from a lack of observations. If you were on the moon for instance and you jumped off of a cliff you'd likely not die because you wouldn't gain the required speed to suffer the trauma and if you jumped off of a small ledge on Jupiter you would instantly be killed because of the gravitational pull of the planet. This too is logical exploration and theoretical as is most logic including what you just posed. "all poisonous objects will poison animals, cause and effect of the object being poisonous, matter determines this, it has nothing to do with what you think, because you can eat the object, and your thoughts doesn't change the result that you will get poisoned ... its only a poisonous mushroom if its poisonous to my body, if an animal eats it and the animal can handle the poison the cause and effect relation is different" Your proposition is that your thoughts do not alter your reality. The thing is that your thoughts and your reality are intrinsically linked; not only do your thoughts alter your reality your entire reality is alters your thoughts as well. You've proven this here through your statements regarding toxicity however you only look at the toxicity in relation to a standard of effect which means that it is only true when it is only true! That's incorrect. For instance the LD50 of water for a person that is 100 pounds is significantly different than the LD50 of water for someone that is 200 pounds. When we talk about shrooms (yes, the drug) you have the same effect plus you have tolerance and other minor players all working against the psilocybin in the system. The reaction is also not equivalent among drugs whether you are referring to alcohol which is common or the obscure such as Ritalin and different amounts have different effects based on a myriad of factors. It is the fact that there is no one specific simple answer to questions of this nature that make you wrong; there have been numerous studies on positivity and recovery from illness (http://abcnews.go.com...) as well as negativity and proneness to illness (http://www.berkeleywellness.com...) so the reality is that you actually could think your way out of certain death because apparently what you think matters more than what you face at times. Not always of course. The second cursory problem is defining "poison". You say if it not poisonous by nature then it is simply not poisonous however that isn't true; quite a number of poisons are simply rendered inert, they are still poison, and if one loses the enzymes to maintain that inert state you can become susceptible to the poisons themselves and another case can just be method of ingestion for instance some snake venoms are inert in the stomach but if injected via fang will kill you (http://books.google.com...) which itself is an interesting reality! Exciting! "so there is no cause and effect relation causing these things with the ice cube?" This is a question that makes zero sense and thus cannot be answered.