All feminist should be MRAs

Ok, where to begin. Firstly I thank you for accepting this debate and in terms of the definition of a feminist I really am not to fussed considering your definition is pretty much identical to mine if not very similar. Also MRA- male rights activist Since their is no dictionary definitions for MRA I am going with what the name says. A male right activist. Let's begin with your major arguments then I will continue to rebut your rebuttals of my arguments and I will finish by elaborating on my initial argument. " Case 1: Men Rights Activism (MRA) is a response to feminism: If one were to fight for equality, especially against a system of rules that existed for such a long time, one would expect an organization to exist for a long time as well. However, it started in the 70s as a response to feminists threatening traditional gender roles [3]. "But YaHey," I hear you counterarguing, "the Republicans weren't always old, white, racists! Movements change!" Yes, this is true, but to see where one is, it is important to know how one started. But this is only argument 1!" You have not really elaborated on this argument, you say yourself that movements do change and you obviously know that I am going to mention that so what is the point of is argument? It has already been nullified since I have a response to it and you have not responded to that response rather you have just stated it is a single argument. Just because a flawed argument is only a single argument does not bolster its legitimacy. I do praise that you have given some historic context but like you say yourself, movements change. Also, no I don't think the origins of MRA's are needed to be discussed. If you do think they should then please elaborate on that. Also, please do not use Wikipedia as a reference for controversial topics such as. MRAs as it looses it's neutrality when heavily opinionated topics are discussed. Anyone who is passionately against MRAs ( there are more then a few of them) can later to their hearts content. "Sexists in sheep's clothing: I argue that most MRAs are actually just misogynistic sexists. This can be shown in the "Don't Be That Girl" campaign, which made a big show of false rape accusations. Despite the fact that a miniscule number of rapes are fake and so many rapists are never caught, these MRAs wanted to put more doubt on rape claims. " Please note that I have never once grouped feminist together like you have done with MRAs ( I did mention a few generalisations but these all come back to the definition of a feminist and a MRA). MY generalisations of feminist not caring for male topics sparked of the idea that a MRA activist want gender equality by focusing on Male issues and feminist want to focus on female issue to create equality hence if you are JUST a feminist then you don't address male issues. If you do address make issues then you are a MRA, and like wise for feminism. You fail to recongize that male right activism is the male equivalent to feminism. On a neutral definitional bases it is trying to achieve what feminism are doing for women but for men. I am actually really surprised when so many feminist and MRAs are in argument when they are both pretty much the same thing except for two different genders. I digress, I have made generalisations about feminists but your gernelistaions about MRAs are nothing more then ad hominem or viscous name calling. Please back up why most MRAs are sexist or misogynist. I have never attacked feminist, I merely say they need to be MRAs so they can achieve equality. Also, your example of what some MRAs have done proves nothing. So can I make the judgement that Muslims are evil due to 9/11? Or can I say that Japanese hate animals due to their treatment of whales ? No, this would seem as undeniable offensive yet you use a few example to label MRAs. Of you want to criticise MRAs attests make it definitional criticisms. I can also mention projects that feminist have created that are just as bad like the ban bossy campaign or the sorry not sorry campaign. These do not strive for equality but rather strive for superiority ( this is debatable but let's leave that for another time, point is I can mention feminist projects that can be interpreted as bad just as you have for MRAs). I am jot saying feminist are bad but I am saying that what you are doing to MRAs can work the other way as well. Also, just for your information, some of the most popular YouTube MRAs are women and feminist, ever heard of honey badger radio? They are ALL women MRAs. Also, I have a lot of criticisms for the articles you sent me but I don't think they were used as arguments by you so I will leave them. " The Last Refutation, or Feminists should be MRAs: Here we see something I wanna call a DOUBLE STANDARD. You say feminists should become MRAs, but not the fact that MRAs should become feminists? If anything, the latter should be true, since feminism encompasses both genders, while MRAs focus on men. However, there isn't the overlap you want to claim is there. The MRM, as a response to feminism, cannot therefore become feminism? Just like atheism, which is a response to theism, cannot become theism. The two sides are not compatible. " Please elaborate on how feminist have been encompassing both genders? And if they do they are MRAs ! If you stand for make rights you are a MRA much like if you stand for female rights you are a feminist, I never said MRAs should not be feminist in fact I agree with you. Also, you have failed to define MRAs as they way they should be, activist of male rights. They are just as progressive as feminist and want to see a change. Your analyses of MRAs is not only based on Wikipedia off all sites but is a one dimensional one. You can have left wing and right wing views much like having feminist and MRA ideologies. Atheism and theism are direct opposites, MRA and feminism are not. Now for a few rebuttals of rebuttals Firstly, removing patriarchy may possibly fix male problems, but we need to directly attack male problems just as we do with females problems or people will either forget they exist or it will take too long. There are make problems that need to be addressed right now like suicide and we can't wait for the patriarchy to be removed before this happens. It is simply more efficient for feminist to become MRA rather then wait until patriarchy is removed to remove male problems. Female problems are being addressed now, so should make problems. 1) Dude, men are always expected to perform or supply. From fathers to boys in schools we are given standards to achieve just like women are. When I play a sport against a girl I need to win or I will be disowned due to societies expectation of women being weak and men having to be stronger. It is a standard for men and a attack on women. We expect men to do better then women in physical activities even though they are just as competent as us. This is why we need feminist to tell women they can be just as physically fit as a man and we need MRAs to tell men we can be beaten by women and we shouldn't feel embarrassed. Either way , this is just one example of a male problem and not really an argument. 3) and 2) These were just examples I used to show men have problems. Attack the arguments not the examples. 4) Definition wise , if a female is an activist for make rights they are a MRA. Please elaborate on how MRAs cannot be for equal rights. Finally Let's look at my argument again, o personally believe we should all be humanist. Humanist : MRA + Feminist We need to look at the bigger picture and point injustice in both genders, you cannot preach the ideologies of feminism yet neglect the problems men face on a day to day basis. This can also be said for MRAs. Overall, unless you are saying men have no problems at all, we should all be MRAs much like we should all be feminist.