LM Classic Puck vs. Ragnar Rahl

:or I could hollow out a tree, pile my team in and call myself as being in a defensive invulnerable position. I could sell cupcakes from it and call it a shop. Deadpool could even dress it up as one. You could, if you could find a tree, and if you have time. That's the nature of the scenario. :It violates the canon: as its invulnerable ability do not arise from Animorphs - rather the specific instances of the tournament. That would be like saying Goku and Vegeta (if they were allowed in this tournament), were "violating the canon" by ducking behind a skyscraper, because skyscrapers are not invulnerable in their world. "The canon" is relevant only in describing the personal properties of the characters, not in how the city is able to interact with those properties. A creature reliant on breathing a high-methane atmosphere would die in this tournament, even if the canon he is from contains no instances of him ever being deprived of such an atmosphere. :It would be akin to taking Jack Hawkmoor as a character - the Spirit of Cities - and being granted insta-invulnerability as a result. I'm not sure how being a spirit of cities makes you a PART of a city, but presuming it does, such would be valid. :It violates the rules: 2. No team member may have unlimited abilities in one or more particular areas. http://www.debate.org...... - linked by LM as the example of a UTB debate. Unfortunately - invulnerable is an unlimited ability. It's not unlimited. The rules prohibit teleporting it out of New York, but not removing it some other way-- if your characters can. It is therefore a strictly limited invulnerability-- limited by location. The man who was not vulnerable while he touched the earth was not unlimited, for he could be lifted. I'm sure a creative person has many ways to make him not part of the city. :Even if given the Hive exterior is closed off - the interior is not solid. Spiral, Deadpool both have transportation that allow all team members entry. Opposing characters are still not safe inside. They are safe from what was described first round. That was my intent. :Not knowing where my characters are is not akin to knowing that they are. Presumably Jagang does not have omnipotence in regards to all life - i.e. it does him no good if he is not aware that my characters even exist - if he has no instance of thought as to who his possession should target. If Jagang were limited by foreknowledge of his opponents, the canon would all but certainly describe scouts looking for such opportunities, and people who escaped such knowledge. It doesn't really seem to though. What makes most sense? Considering the canon, which is that the ease of finding things depends on how powerful they are (Incidentally, he can find not only the "gifted" easily, but also apparently sorcerors and so forth-- and both additive and subtractive help, both being magics from different sources), we can presume due to Occam's razor that he can search for other minds with his, and the degree to which they stand out is amplified by the degree of the power those minds directly control, which would explain why he has an easier time with the gifted (Incidentally, this would mean that in a New York of 10 minds, there would be very little to obscure his consciousness). :In Jagang's world, magic is called the Gift, and Jagang's ability of the dreamwalker was created specifically during the Great War, by wizards of that world to the tune of that world's magic. Much like Marvel physics isn't the same as DC physics, one can't assume that the term 'magic' is a single catch all phrase that denotes the one source. The dreamwalker ability that is useful him in his world, is part of its creation by wizards using the type of magic of that world to the tune of the magic of that world - Spiral's magic is of dimensional origin (explained later), it's source, structure etc., are fundamentally different, thus the same vulnerabilities cannot be assumed. Spiral's immunity can still be considered valid - at least for now. This does not follow. Preserving Spiral's claim to "not making it easier," does not preserve her claim to immunity. The claim to immunity would RELY on Jagang dealing in the same medium as everyone else. :however the instance Jagang attempts mind control, his presence would become aware to Sinister - ranked as one of highest level telepaths of Marvel (http://www.comicvine.com......) - as it is Jagang himself in some manner who attempts the possession Jagang uses his power in the space between moments. He is therefore instantaneously aware of this, and acts accordingly by switching targets. :Any nearby invading mental presence whether directed at him or other team members would be engaged with. Though magic based, a mental assault is still that - to assume simply because it is magic based therefore somehow immune would be erroneous as the basics of mental control remain. This assumes that the mechanic basics of "mental control," which have no real equivalents, are the same between canons, which you rebutted above. Telepathy is an ability definable in terms of physics, albeit Marvel physics, and limited by it's laws-- ultimately, an interaction between brain cells, which cannot outdo the instantaneous nature of Jagang's magic. By the time any defense could be complicated, the mind would already be lost. Sinister would instead be contemplating an assault upon his allies by that time :). Does Mr. Sinister have possessive abilities? Direct them at everyone not immune to his. :Sinister has bettered mental assaults from Psylocke, Madelyne Pryor, Jean Grey all of whom possess on par the ability of Jagang. Each of the characters you described is a mutant, whose abilities rely on their PHYSICAL nature. The gravity of a pea would stand a better chance of holding the pea together despite a nuclear explosion than any defense that takes time to mount could against the instantaneous. :Furthermore, power engaged with Sinister, can be returned to sender, with additional power. The team is down bar perhaps Oba with his void of magic. At minimum, Jagang's ability is held at bay. You've thankfully rebutted this already. A mirror can reflect light but not a fist, both of which can be described in terms of physics, what ground can you have for extrapolating from telepaths which can to Jagang which can't? :Even if all remains, Spiral's dimensional magic requires for the most part the use of complex rituals (dance) to extract the necessary power. Quick fire team paralysis is out. Jagang, fortunately, does not share my weaknesses of having to ask to be aware of this.