Same-sex Marriages

Let me start this round off by saying that I've been watching several of your other debates, and you seem like a very intelligent person. It's a pleasure to be having this conversation with you it is a delightful privilege to be in an environment in which we can peacefully argue out points without having to ridicule each other on personal levels. I've been a part of several other online communities in the past, and they were not so kind. If I ever seem to sound arrogant or dismissive, please remember that voice tone and such can't be detected online as easily as it can when having a face to face conversation. If you feel insulted, I guarantee you, it was not my intention. Now, on to the topic at hand. "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," - words from our founding document as a country, the Declaration of Independence. This phrase is stated in the preamble, which the first sentence reads: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." So the document, as it says, acknowledges that we were endowed these rights by our creator, which is, in some shape or form, God. In this sense, our laws governing the society in general are not derived from mankind, but from God himself. So really, when you say that "stealing, murder, etcetera... are illegal because they infringe upon one's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, the unalienable rights so prominent in our nation's founding," you're basically saying that these laws are derived from God. So you're actually validating my point. I will concede the point you give that Romans and Greeks practiced homosexuality regularly. This is true, historically. However, even in these sometimes lust-driven societies, the homosexual family unit was never accepted as the norm. They practiced the ACT of homosexuality. You're advocating a revamp of the societal structure of marriage, which they never even touched. Sure, homosexual acts were committed, and yes, some very fundamentalist conservative Christians may advocate making homosexuality illegal in the U.S., punishable by years in prison. However, I, and most of those who oppose homosexual marriage, do not argue that homosexuality should be illegal, only that homosexual marriage should be illegal. The Greeks and Romans both recognized marriage as a union between a man and a woman, and any other definition of a family, whether it be a man and man or woman and woman, was considered insane. You're right, also, in pointing out how the U.S. has always been an advocate for changing norms. The abolition of slavery, womens rights, and the abolition of torture are great advances in U.S. history. However, these are based upon the same phrase we talked about before: "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Moral relativism plays no real part in these issues, and essentially, that is what you are arguing for. You say that "same-sex marriages, though morally wrong in God's eyes, should not receive the same negative view on a civil level." Then, I ask, why we should follow the phrase of "life, liberty, and happiness?" Even though slavery, torture, and the oppression of women are wrong in the Christian God's eyes, why should they receive the same negative view on a civil level? It seems as if you're advocating that the government shouldn't have any role in the morality of a society, yet when it comes to other issues, such as the three we discuss above, you believe the government should intervene. Moral relativism, or the belief that morality is subjective and humans shouldn't judge one another based on their moral compass, was one of the main reasons the Roman Empire fell. If anyone would have proposed homosexual marriage at the beginning of the Sexual Revolution in the '60s, they would've been considered insane. Now, after the effects of the '60s have influenced greatly our openly sexually promiscuous society, homosexual marriage is a very important issue. Ask yourself, what moral value will the secular progressives destroy next? Are we going to let moral relativism destroy the United States as it did the Roman Empire?