Stormcloaks' Goals Are Right

"I somewhat agree and somewhat disagree with my opponent, respectfully. The Thalmor are probably making an actually good tactical decisions by not attacking now as there is a possibility that they may get crushed, but that is where I only agree with my opponent. You see, perhaps the Thalmor would get defeated by the Empire again which is actually good why they are waiting."My opponent contradicts himself at this point. First he says the Empire would be rushed by Thalmor should they make Talos worship legal. Then, later, he says that they did good by not attacking the Empire since they could be crushed. Thus, I do not know which side does Con take. The solely purpose of my argument on this point was to say why his sentence "The Empire probably wishes that Talos would be legal, but if they make it legal they will get crushed by the Thalmor" is not true, which he presented in the second round. Why Con takes a totally different opinion in the second round, I do not know. However, since he contradicted himself, I guess it's bonus points for me. "Perhaps the Thalmor are hoping for the Stormcloaks to win and thus the Thalmor can win with a "divide and conquer" plan. Even if the war is won by the Empire it still weakens them as they lose troops. If the Stormcloaks win it maybe worse."I already said why this is wrong in the past round. Skyrim would be more unified with one side won, than being in a civil war. The Thalmor certainly doesn't want anyone to win in the civil war. I will talk about this point more a bit later in t argument. Then Con says that it would be bad for the empire to win since it would weaken them. This is a logical fallacy. The one who loses is certainly more weakened than the one who wins. Therefore, it would not be benefitial to them at all. Same thing with Stormcloaks."This is because the Empire is not the same old Empire. Two hundred years after the Oblivion Crisis the Empire is in a state of collapse with many provinces seceding the Empire, the first being Black Marsh followed by Elsweyr. The Empire is in a state of corruption and betrayal. The Imperial Legion is not better. What was once the most powerful fighting force in Tamriel is now just a shadow of its former self and its condition is much like the Empire's. Without the Legion all would be lost for the Empire."First, to clear up the definitions, I want to note that the Imperial Legion is the army of the Empire. [1] Therefore, the state of the Empire and the Legion is always the same. Con talked about them as seperate forces, which is wrong. I do agree that the Empire is far weaker than it once was. However, if it was as weak as my opponent says it was, then the Thalmor would have already attacked. Their intentions are obviously of conquering nature, and if they could do it, they would've already started. In the year 4E 175 the Thalmor faced their biggest defeat up to date, significantly weakening them. [2] Just 5 years later, Hamerfell went against one of the conditions of the Concordat, which said that the Southern part of the country should be taken by Thalmor. Without anyone's help, Hamerfell defended their country. [3] It would be logical to asume that the Dominion was in bad conditions at the time. It was both weakened by the war and lost a large part of its potential territory. This also shows the White-Gold Concordat would've been uneccesary, and that, even though it would be exhausting, the Imperial legion would totally erradicate the Aldmeri Dominion, if it continued the war. Skyrim is set only 21 years after the last noted year. [3] In such short time, the Dominion couldn't have possibly improved their state by a large amount. The Empire would recover for the same time, additionaly. I've shown that the Empire could still win in a war against Thalmor, and that the Dominion was severely weakened by the recent wars."I meant Skyrim's Empire in terms of meaning the Empire during Skyrim so just during the game and during the game the Empire is not just in Skyrim. The Empire is on the continent of Tamriel. I am sure that in its current state the Empire has also suffered from troubles all over the continent. The Empire has to spread out the Legion all over the continent and is slowly weakening. Losing Skyrim maybe wound the Empire perhaps fatally. It would raise the morale of other rebellions and start the Dark Ages of the Elder Scrolls."The Empire, during the game of Skyrim, has stabe control of High Rock and Cyrodiil, with Skyrim being under Civil War. [3] I agree that it has suffered from the continous wars over the last years, but losing Skyrim wouldn't mean a fatal punch to the Legion. I also don't know about what "rebllions" is Con talking about. The only one existing at the Skyrim time is the Stormcloaks vs Imperials. There exist no other rebellions that could start the Dark Ages. Additionaly, the Dark Ages aren't defined in the game. One could look at the whole Fourth Era as a dark age, but it doesn't go against the Stormcloak rebellions."The Stormcloaks may have a bigger impact than you think. However, I disagree with my opponent that if the Stormcloaks won they maybe the strongest force in Skyrim and not many would oppose this. First off, the Stormcloaks came out of a bloody civil war and thus they may be weak."Con says that if Stormcloaks won, they will not be the strongest force in Skyrim. I oppose. If the Legion is driven out, the largest military force would be them. Jarls would have been changed to those who are in favour of Stormcloaks, with Stormcloak guards patrolling the cities. This happens in the game itself. Of course, certain families would go against them, but nothing major would happen. About the last sentence... well, it is obviously not true. They obviously have great organisation, or they wouldn't have gotten as far as in the start of the game. If they were weak as Con says they could be, they wouldn't be given an option of winning in the game. If something arises from a cil war, it doesn't mean it is weak."Then it is possible that it could be a trick."This couldn't have possibly been a trick... I don't know if my opponent has finished this quest, but it involves infiltrating the Thalmor Embassy and taking classified documents from it. The Thalmor would have no need to fake them."Also the civil war is not technically cover when you take down Solitude or Windhelm depending on who you choose. They do state the possibility of small bands of either side still out fighting which will be hard to find. While the Empire is weak, even if the Stormcloaks take Solitude what about the possibility of reinforcements? The war does not end with the taking of Solitude or Windhelm, the campaign in the Skyrim Civil War ends."First, I want to note that it is not only takning one of these cities that make the win of either side. During the questline, the side who the player fights with takes numerous forts, which are the base of Imperial/Stormcloak operations. During the Stormcloak questline, they also acquire large weapon and silver resources from an Imperial caravan. [4] Not only does this go in favour of Stormcloaks, but also weakens the Imperial resources. After the Solitude battle, the number of Imperials in skyrim would be so small it wouldn't even matter. These small camps are just the remaining soldiers which cannot do anything but hopelessly defend themselves. Skyrim would most likely be rendered free, and Empire would only be in loss by sending reinforcements. They were in not such a good situation before it anyway.Racist ArgumentThis argument makes no sense. Khajits and Argonians are treated everywhere equally, with only Dunmer being especially discriminated (only in Windhelm). Their number would, either way, be meaningless. The small bands of imperials would be too small to do anything. I've already stated why there wouldn't be reinforcements and Ulfric either way wants to attack the Thalmor when he wins [5].Conclusion and soures in comments-lack of space