Alcoholics Anonymous is NOT a cult

"I would like my opponent to point out where the article clearly states that the checklist usually defines "dangerous cults." I would love to. "This list may help you determine if there is cause for concern." That is what this checklist is for. Usually things that are causes for concern, are dangerous to an extent. "However, as the advocate I had the initial responsibility of defining terms, in which I used their checklist to do so. The article clearly states that their checklist ‘may be helpful in assessing a particular group or relationship.'" I agree. However, this still does not change the fact that this list is "not meant to be a "cult scale" or a DEFINITIVE CHECKLIST to determine if a specific group is a cult." Emphasis has been added by me. But this is still a direct quote. "They then turn to the power of the group, which is indeed more powerful than their own strength." I understand this. However, i feel as though my opponent has not answered my question to the fullest. To reiterate my question here again: "Really. And what sort of "Higher power" could an atheist call upon, to which they are helpless against?" This is, after all, one of the main sections of the 12 step program, which is admitting that you are helpless against this higher power. "Others have been known to use Mother Nature as their Higher Power." In other words, Pantheism. "the Agnostic AA groups can format their meetings differently, but they are still AA meetings." Very well, then. I shall ask my opponent this question. If a group decides to throw away the 12 step program in favor of a more secular, yet vastly different approach that is based upon a different Secular Alcohol rehabilitation group, is that group still AA? Rebuttal 2. And i have also successfully provided an example of a religion that is deemed as a cult by many, but which utterly fail when the checklist is applied. This example was Raelism. Infact, i would like to ask my opponent a very important question. Does my opponent believe that Christianity is a Cult? Rebuttal 3. I shall address this in further detail once my opponent answers my question regarding AA meetings, above. Rebuttal 5. Yet, clearly, when Bill, the founder of AA, created the "Big book", which was an outline of the history, methods and beliefs of Alcoholics Anonymous, he produces the 12 steps, which specifically mention God. One could only conclude that by "Higher power", Bill was referring to God, specifically. Otherwise, he would have kept the words "Higher Power" and never would have used the word "God". I fail to see what a forced dichotomy has to do with answering the question. My opponents arguments depend solely on the interpretation of the word "Higher power", and claim that one could not possibly assume that the word "higher power" directly references, or equates to "God". If my opponent is Christian, and I am an atheist, then we are on opposite sides of the playing field. Therefore, if we both reach the same conclusion as to what the word "Higher power" means, then clearly this is a representation of a larger group, and not just a single group of like-minded people. I would like the audience and my opponent to be mindful that the fallacy of composition is only applied when the whole is assumed to be true based on the partial. However, I have never claimed that every single person on the planet will instantly point to the word "God", when the word "Higher power" is mentioned. Thus, there is no fallacy present. Furthermore, it is even more absurd when my opponent claims the fallacy of Ad populum, when the claim is "Most people who hear the word "Higher power" think of the word "God"", because that claim IS dependent on majority opinion. Buddha is a god. Pantheism. Existentialists are not atheists. The twelve step group is a worship in a deity. In every instance that you have substituted a higher power for, the instance is related to Theism or a deity in particular. This is laughable. Hindu India = Theism. Buddhist japan = Theism. Catholic Spain = Theism. There is no such thing as an Atheistic Russia. In fact, the majority of people in Russia are theists(1). Maybe you are talking about the Soviet Union. I wasn't aware that we were in the 20th century. "I am curious to see if my opponent will interject his personal opinion and state that these examples are also religious in nature, as he did for the previously mentioned conceptions. His opinion does not represent the opinions of everyone else." Yes. Because, clearly Catholicism has nothing to do with religion. Clearly, Buddhism has nothing to do with religion. Clearly, Hinduism has nothing to do with Religion. This is not my personal opinion. This is a fact. And this is probably why you chose to write "Hindu India, Buddhist japan, Catholic Spain". The truth of the matter is, I asked YOU, or rather, MY OPPONENT the question. I did not ask a group of people. I did not circulate a worldwide poll. I asked my opponent, as to whether or not he buys his own argument. My opponent, is christian, i agree. However, so is the majority of this country. Infact, the majority of the human race that has the means to suffer from Alcoholism, is religious. This does not create a dichotomy, or a fallacy of the majority. I am not claiming that "Since the majority of believers would point to God when they hear the word "Higher power", therefore everyone in the world would do the same". I am claiming that the majority of people who hear the word "Higher power" will believe it to be pointing to the word "God", and this is most definitely a fact. My opponent just refuses to answer this simple question because even he does not believe in his own argument. Rebuttal 11. Nonetheless, i would like to continue addressing the fact that the checklist is a potential checklist in determining whether an organization is a cult, but not a determinate one, nor a requirement. Rebuttal 12. Ditto above. Rebuttal 13. Ditto above. Rebuttal 14. Again, Ditto above. Rebuttal 15. Although I could ditto this too, I will ask my opponent a question instead. When a loyal member of the AA group, who believes in the 12 steps program and also in the 12 traditions, has his faith shattered and can no longer believe that a higher power exists, what do you believe will be the most general course of action that this person will take? Source: 1. http://en.wikipedia.org...