BeIR/webis-touche2020 huggingface dataset:
Convince me a God has the right to punish and hurt people for their wrongs.

2. Morality Like I said, so many people claim to have spoken to God and have sent down scriptures and laws. But, if you think from my point of view (growing up being told to believe what ever I think makes sense) and looking at al these different religions and belief systems that all claim to be right, and having them all have different beliefs that differ from each other and that have changed since the time that they claimed to come from God, it is hard to take any of them seriously or lean towards any of them. Also, I am not convinced we all have a sense of a "greater good". Many people do things we consider terrible because they have different morals. Morals are so different in different cultures and within people that I do not see them as a constant that any supernatural being has placed within us. 1+2) Alright, I like this point. But, if God is all-powerful as you say, could not have he created us so that we would realize why certain things are immoral and have the capability but would never do so because if the way we were created? There are natural impulses in us that we were born with that cause us to do things that are considered immoral by many religions. If the purpose is to create a better afterlife, would not it be better if we all were created so that our natural impulse is not to do these immoral things? And yes, I agree with you on the murder thing and I like the idea of God being merciful. But, if he created us and wants us all to be happy and enlightened and go to heaven, why did he create people like psychopaths and sociopaths who are born with no moral compass whatsoever? If you say that this is to teach us and that murderers do not get rewarded, then why are the people he created to be like that not good enough to reach enlightenment when it is not their fault that they are not inclined to be moral? R3: You say all these great things about God. But it seems to me he does things that I believe to be wrong in some way, so for me to be able to believe in what you say is true about God, these things have to make sense and not be wrong to me.
Convince me a God has the right to punish and hurt people for their wrongs.

Thank you for your response, and am enjoying this debate- mostly so because I can see you really do have good intentions. Conceding one of my points gave it away. Aside from that, let's try to make some headway. 1. Creation That's fair enough. I won't try to shove it down your throat if you don't believe yet; that comes afterwards. 2. Morality Now don't get me wrong- I'm not conceding the point. But I am granting you credibility, as you did not link this with the first paragraph of round 2. My belief is that there IS an objective morality; God sent down his word through scripture and thousands of prophets, and, as religions, we attempt to conform to objective morality as best as we can. There are relatively subjective morals on earth, yes, but that is due to different human perceptions. Because we derive our morality from a sense of greater good, though, I would argue that morality definitely exists on an objective level; it is simply too complicated for us to logically deduce. C1. To answer my opponent's questions. 1) We weren't created SO that we make mistakes. We simply have the capacity to make mistakes. Coupled with God's mercy, I'd say this is a good thing. Moreover, it is an Islamic belief that when we sin, God uses this pain to teach us. Ultimately, our mistakes are a good thing because they prevent mistakes in the future. The old saying goes, "learn from your mistakes"; with God helping us to do so, I would think that mistakes are nothing more than a learning experience, since we are not punished on earth. The likelihood of being punished is actually minute, for the contention which was conceded. 2) He is testing us to create the perfect afterlife. Like you said, we were created with flaws; some with serious flaws. Someone who consciously murders other humans shouldn't be rewarded, don't you agree? But it is only flaws like these that are punished. In Islam, if you are born diseased such that you are impaired in some way, you will automatically go to heaven. This is further evidence of God's mercy. C2. This argument will extend. In Islam specifically, even smiling in the face of your husband or wife will reward you, thereby reducing your already insignificant chance of "punishment". R3. Please elaborate on this point. On my side, I will try to do a little better as well by arguing more clearly. First, God never punishes us on earth. There is nothing to show anything of the sort, especially not what we understand as "hell". Second, the likelihood that you will be punished is so low that you can probably bet on the fact that you're going to heaven. God's mercy is abundant and plentiful. Finally, God, by definition, is the most intelligible being that exists. His decisions would be the best decisions. Thanks again, and I hope everyone's holidays are going well.
Convince me a God has the right to punish and hurt people for their wrongs.

1.Creation (I actually do not agree that we were created supernaturally I am undecided but that is not the point of this debate) I also do not see how God has set the rules. God has "spoken" to certain people and because we are people and imperfect and selfish, it is hard for me to believe that God really spoke to them and they did not have other motivations. 2. I remain unconvinced of a set code of moral laws that some perfect being created seeing as there are so many that claim to be just that. I also fail to see how they could be absolute since we are free-thinkers and can therefore interpret things on our own, also everyone interprets things differently so what may have started out as a strict moral code could have been changed and has changed very much since humans existed. C1. If God created us why did he make it so we would make so many mistakes? You say he tests us. Why is he testing us? It seems to me he wouldn't need to test us if he had just created us so that we wouldn't do things we thought we bad. C2. I like this post. Forgiveness is good and this works for me and the fact that good is counted as more important than bad. R3. After pointing out those things that don't make sense to me, it is hard to believe that he is all the things you say in this refutation. All these beliefs were told by other humans which we have admitted are faulty. So many humans claim to be in communication with God, have the right way to worship and believe in God, from an unbiased perspective(meaning you didn't grow up with any of them taught to you to be the right one), how should I know which is right? Also, for me to start believing, the whole idea of a God needs to fit into the beliefs I am fairly certain about. I don't like the idea of someone creating us imperfectly just to test us.
Convince me a God has the right to punish and hurt people for their wrongs.

Thank you for your response. To be quite honest, I have a very similar view of morality- the only difference is that I believe in an objective morality. Religion and scripture is what guides us to conform to this objective morality as best as we can. With that, I'll get into the substance of my argumentation. == Observations == 1. Creation. Seeing as we agree on a theistic level that we were created by a supernatural being, we can agree that God sets our rules. We live in His house, we go by His ways. 2. Morality. God created moral law, and for that reason is morally perfect in every way. I will attempt to fit this in to your "subjective", personal morality, but at the end of the day God remains perfect. == Contentions == 1. Free-will comes with responsibility. Imagine if your parents gave you a car so you could get to work, but you used it to go to parties and get drunk. Naturally, they would punish you. The situation is comparable; God gave us the life we have as mortals as a test. We have the free will to act however we want, but if we abuse God's trust, a punishment is something we can naturally expect. 2. Imperfection =/= Damnation I concede that we are imperfect; this does not mean we will burn in hell. God is merciful, and I would hope my opponent agrees. I'll elaborate from the Islamic perspective. It is said that God is so generous and merciful that every good deed you perform is counted 10 times; every bad deed is only written down once. So to be "punished", you would have to literally be bad 10 times as much as you are good throughout the year. Not only that; in the holy month of Ramadaan, God multiplies your good deeds many times over. This is just a sliver of God's grace and mercy, and I'm sure the Christian perspective at least shares some of these beliefs. Nonetheless; I am arguing for the monotheistic God, not a single religion. == Refutation == My opponent's only arguments refer to the afterlife. I would argue that, 1) On Earth, God gives us innumerable chances to make up for our mistakes, and NEVER punishes us. That's mercy. 2) God's decision to punish/reward us is also very generous (see Contention 2). 3) God is all-knowing, almighty, and wise, and, at the end of the day, would know the best decision(s) to make. Thanks again, rogue, and good luck. -m93samman
Convince me a God has the right to punish and hurt people for their wrongs.

Alright thank you very much for accepting my challenge. I hope I do not offend you in any way, the point of this debate is not to win or lose but explore ideas, beliefs, and such. I hope this is an enlightening experience for both of us. So, for me what I consider to be morally right and wrong is that the right thing to do is whatever helps people in any way the most. The greatest wrong for me is to hurt people intentionally. In the Bible there are many accounts of God punishing, hurting, and judging people. I cannot see how this is right or fair. If we go with Christian beliefs, God created us this way and we are imperfect because he designed us this way so how can he judge or blame us for our wrongs? Also, I truly feel that I cannot worship anyone or anything that claims to be perfect and then hurts people intentionally mentally, physically, or socially.
Convince me a God has the right to punish and hurt people for their wrongs.

I commend my opponent's bravery in bringing up a touchy and sensitive subject such as this one. I believe that I can bring her to appreciate the idea of God's judgement day through my conception of the idea. For this round, I'll just hand it back over to Con and allow her to do the initial argumentation, so that we have an equal number of rounds to argue. That being said, good luck, Con, and may the truth be revealed!
Convince me a God has the right to punish and hurt people for their wrongs.

I would like to believe in a God. This would make my life much easier. But, besides my skepticism about the existence of a God, I can't seem to come to terms with the idea that a God would think it was ok to punish and hurt someone for their wrongs. I just cannot worship a being who hurts on purpose. Pro's job will be to convince me. My job will be to refute what Pro says.
Fast Food Franchises Makes Teens Fit a Larger Size, Or The Diet Industry Makes Peaople Skinny

I am not sure why my opponent bailed on me. Obesity is a problem in this country but again I feel it is up to the individual to choose what they eat. As far as children under 10 go, parents are the ones that need to be responsible to ensure their kids are eating the right foods in life. This is one of the many responsibilities of the parent or guardian of a child.
Fast Food Franchises Makes Teens Fit a Larger Size, Or The Diet Industry Makes Peaople Skinny

While people are always looking for a reason to blame for their issues, I am more likely to blame the people for their issues. It is a personal choice to eat fast food and it should be done so in moderation as with everything in life. If you are to blame McDonald's & KFC for obesity, I would suggest to also blame Zenith for inventing the remote controlled TV which allows people to watch endless TV without getting up once. I worked physical labor for 15 years, within the first month of my office job I gained 15 pounds in comparison to 0 pounds during the time that I was working physical labor. Eating balanced and healthy is up to the individual person. Whether they choose to or not, they will be the ones directly affected. I personally choose not to eat healthy but I work out on a regular basis to offset my poor eating habits. We all want an easier life with things always at our fingertips though when these things provide outcomes we don't like, we choose to blame the thing we originally wanted. Also, their is enough talk in public about the side effects of many things though we choose to defy them (i.e. alcohol, smoking, drugs, not wearing a seatbelt, etc.).
Fast Food Franchises Makes Teens Fit a Larger Size, Or The Diet Industry Makes Peaople Skinny

I say that now, fast foods make teenagers larger than they are meant to be. Not saying I have never eaten at McDonalds or KFC, but some teenagers eat fast foods a little too often, which leads to, I am not trying to offend anyone here, obese. I have copied and pasted a peice from another website for you to see. Millions of Britons would find it impossible to give up fast food like burgers and pizza, according to new research. Around 45 per cent of the people surveyed about eating habits agreed with the statement "I like the taste of fast food too much to give it up". In the USA the figure was 44 per cent. Nine thousand people around the world were questioned for the study, carried out by market research firm Synovate and backed up by a BBC investigation. The study showed a wide range of attitudes towards food and weight. The French were most likely to get on the scales every day. People in Singapore checked their weight least often. Steve Garton of Synovate said: "People are inherently contradictory and nowhere is it more obvious than on such a sensitive and important issue such as their weight. "The results show there's a world of people who cannot deny themselves that hamburger or extra piece of pizza, but probably make themselves feel better by washing it down with a diet cola." I hope you read that with caution. This is just to say, now, teens can get obese easily. Onto My second point. Teenagers can get obssesed with what they see, like that new dress in the shop window. Also, people get obssesed with weight. I have a friend who is skin and bones, yet, all she can ever say is... I NEED TO LOSE MORE WEIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Obviosly, this is not true. I am the one who needs to lose weight. I am 60 kg and am only 15. feel free to take on this challenge...
The Old Testament/Law of Moses was done away by the death of Jesus Christ

My opponent is effective ONLY in avoiding his responsibility of denying my affirmative position, by disproving the proposition and subsequent premises set forth in my affirmation. Instead, my opponent chooses to establish his entire position upon a single term and its definition; which I will prove absolutely demolishes his entire argument and position. Ignoring the overwhelming evidence is not a denial and certainly not an effective negation of my affirmative argument. The cessation of the Law of Moses is evident through the New Testament. The inspired apostle, in comparing the law of Moses to the Covenant of Christ, in no uncertain terms affirmed to abrogation of the Old Testament " 2 Cor. 3. He wrote that the law "written on stone tablets" " vs. 3, and which "killeth" " vs. 6 was to "cease", "be abolished", "be done away" and "vanish" (katargeo - Greek). He further said that the law which Moses gave with a veil over his face was to come to an "end" or "conclusion" and having reached its "end" or "conclusion", it would be "abolished" " vs. 13, kjv or "pass away" " nasb. Paul is even further point, in his letter to the Colossians, saying the gospel system came into fruition by the 1.) "blotting out", "erasing" or "wiping away" (exaleipho - Greek) of the law of Moses. Note that this very terminology was employed by Peter in reference to what happens to one"s sin when they are forgiven and "washed away" " Acts 3:19. Now, if being "blotted out" does NOT mean, in this case "to be removed", "abolished" or "done away", then likewise, regarding one"s sins are not "removed", "blotted out" or "abolished" from his/her conscience through obedience to the gospel of Jesus Christ. 2.) Paul goes on to say that the law of Moses was "taken out of the way" and "nailed to the cross" " Col. 2:13-14. Again, Paul make this very argument to the Ephesians, in reference to how God brought together, in one body both Jew and Gentile through "dissolved", "put off", "ABOLISHED" and "slain" (i.e. destroyed or "put to death") the law of Moses " Eph. 2:14-16. Finally, the writer of Hebrews, in arguing the superiority and supersession of the Covenant of Christ over that of Moses, affirmed that SINCE the priesthood established through Moses is "changed", "removed" or "disestablished", the it was necessary that the law from which the Levitical priesthood originated be "changed" " Heb. 7:11-12. Therefore, in Christ"s affirmation in Matt. 5:17, He in no way suggested or determined that the law of Moses would not soon come to an end; but that His intent and purpose for coming was not to usurp or "overthrow" the law of Moses. So, Yes; Christ came to bring the law of Moses to a close, but NOT by revolt insurgence, "overthrow". But, it was to happen by fulfilling that law and completing that law through the sacrifice of the only begotten Son of God. I would like my opponent to address these passages and disprove their regard to the "passing away" and "abrogation" of the law of Moses.
The Old Testament/Law of Moses was done away by the death of Jesus Christ

The resolution "The Old Testament/Law of Moses was done away by the death of Jesus Christ" The above statement is what my opponent has to prove. Please pay special attention to the words "done away", in the resolution. Jesus's words "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." Matthew 5:17 Definition of the word Abolish Below is a direct quote from dictionary.com "Main Entry: abolish Part of Speech: verb Definition: do away with or put an end to Synonyms: abate, abrogate, annihilate, annul, call off, cancel, destroy, disestablish, dissolve, end, eradicate, erase, expunge, extinguish, extirpate, finish, inhibit, invalidate, kill, negate, nix, nullify, obliterate, overthrow, overturn, prohibit, put an end to, put kibosh on, put the kibosh on, quash, repeal, repudiate, rescind, revoke, scrub, set aside, squelch, stamp out, subvert, supersede, suppress, terminate, undo, vacate, vitiate, void, wipe out, zap" Pay special attention to the bolded words. http://m.dictionary.com... Conclusion Given the statement of Jesus and the definition of the word abolish, it has been proven without a doubt that pro can't possibly prove his resolution.
The Old Testament/Law of Moses was done away by the death of Jesus Christ

The Law of Moses and Covenant which God made with Israel was never meant to be permanent. It was limited in duration and therefore, drawing to its conclusion when it was given: "Who also hath made us able ministers of the New Testament; not of the letter ("written on tablets of stone" vs. 3), but of the spirit ("written upon the heart"): for the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away" 2 Cor. 3:6-7, ""and are not as Moses, who put a veil upon his face, that the children of Israel should not look stedfastly on the end of that which was passing away" vs. 13. The Law of Moses and Covenant God made with Israel, was never designed to accomplish God"s eternal plan and man"s ultimate need; which was "remission of sins" (which was provided through the blood of Christ Eph. 1:7 & Col. 1:12-14 ) and "everlasting righteousness" (provided by Christ Rom. 3:21-26 & 5:19-21, 2 Cor. 5:21). "For the law having a shadow of the good things to come, not the very image of the things, can never with the same sacrifices year by year, which they offer continually, make perfect them that draw nigh. Else would they not have ceased to be offered? Because the worshippers, having been once cleansed, would have had no more consciousness of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance made of sins year by year. For it is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins." Heb. 10:1-4 "On the morrow he seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold, the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world!" Jn. 1:29 God set that old system on a course which "ended" with the death of Christ, the fulfillment of the law, the only offering which could appease God wrath against man"s sin and "blot out" the sin on man"s record Isa. 1:18, Acts 3:19 & 1 Jn. 2:1-2. "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Rom 8:3-4. Therefore, once a system has run its course, "IT IS FINISHED" Jn. 19:30. How many runners, "Wylted" do you KNOW of that, having crossed the "finish line" continue on running? Jesus said; "It is FINISHED ("`4;^9;_5;^9;L9;`9; - teleo" = complete, closed, ended)" Jn. 19:30. As with Paul"s affirmation; "Christ is the END ("`4;^9;L9;_5;_9;`2; - telos" = conclusion, termination, completion, etc.) of the law" Rom. 10:4. Therefore, by the death of Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God, came the completion, conclusion and termination of the Law of Moses and the Old Testament.
The Old Testament/Law of Moses was done away by the death of Jesus Christ

Contents of the Laws of Moses For the purposes of this debate I will be dividing the Laws of Moses into several parts. For the sake of brevity I will ignore some of the Laws of Moses seeing as how there are 613 of them[1] and even if you divide them up it would still have to be in about 10 categories. 1. The 10 commandments 2. The laws on sacrifice 3. Laws on what is clean and unclean 4. Various other laws, codes, ordinances, etc. .. Sources [1] . http://www.jewfaq.org... What did Jesus Mean Jesus must have had some good insight to the future and how his legacy would be remembered and misinterpreted. The verse in Matthew 5:17, is a good example of how Jesus did make some attempt to preempt this by stating his purpose. Unfortunately despite his best effort misconceptions will arise. ""Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. " Matthew" 5:17 Jesus clearly states that he does not wish to abolish the laws of Moses. When he speaks of fulfilling the laws he is referring to some of the prophecies and also by providing himself as a sacrifice, so that the animal sacrifices no longer are necessary. Part of his purpose is to bring more understanding of the laws as well. One way he provided more clarity was by discussing the spirit of the law since the word of the law was being overly focused on. Here is some more context to the verse previously mentioned. Matthew 5:18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. As we all know Heaven and Earth hasn't disappeared, so the law is clearly not done away with. More context Matthew 5:19 "Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. " Here once again Jesus asserts that the laws are not abolished. Then he goes even further by condemning those who break the laws of Moses.