Total Depravity

Introduction: You are a very funny man Dr. Cokeley and I am glad that we can debate this subject in such a forum. It has become abundantly clear that your argument for Total Depravity rests on your adherence to the other points of TULIP (Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace and Perseverance of the Saints). So with this current round I will do my best to dismantle not only your position on Total Depravity, but your position on all the others for which your position is founded. Eliminating both the structure and the foundation on which it's built should be sufficient in destroying your argument - if not sufficient to even change your mind! On Faith: Now you are under the impression that faith being man's gift to God is unbiblical. That could not be further from the truth. Hebrews 11 is most commonly called the "Faith" chapter of the Bible. The Faith chapter teaches that faith "is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see." It goes on to say that the "ancients were commended" for this faith. This chapter teaches that faith is something that we give to God. [1] Furthermore, God commands choice in Deuteronomy 30:11-20. Why would God plead for his children to choose life if He knows that none can? In Matthew 11:28-30, Jesus invites all who are weary to come to him. But this forces the question, why would Jesus make such an invitation if none could actually go to him? Moreover, in John 15, the parable of the Vine, we are told to ABIDE in Christ. In fact, if we DO NOT abide in Christ and bear fruit, we will be cut off. This teaches that we as Christians are responsible for our faith in Christ. If faith was something that GOD did, how is it possible that people fall away from faith (more on this later)? Philosophical Argument: You'll find that you have not actually answered the philosophical argument at all. In fact, you asserted that "We have all chosen to go our own way and therefore we have all chosen hell." Now, pray tell, if we have no opportunity to choose heaven, how are we responsible for choosing hell? For instance, If I put you in a situation where failure was not only likely, but certain, could it be reasonably said that you CHOSE to fail? How could it? You had absolutely no possibility to the contrary. Let me phrase it this way: If God is able to give all people the opportunity for salvation but does not—why call him loving? If God wants all people to have the opportunity but is not able, then He is not omnipotent. If He is both unwilling and unable, then why call Him God? Total Depravity: Perhaps when Jesus extorts his followers to enter through the narrow gate, he really believes that they have the choice to do so.[1] Perhaps the God who desires all people to be saved[2] has, through the enlightenment of all people[3], made it possible. Or is James, brother of Jesus, fundamentally wrong when he insists that people choose to go the way of the world?[4] Was Joshua utterly deceived by thinking that he or anybody else could actually choose to serve God?[5] According to the points of Calvinism, nobody chooses anything—all people are born depraved and enemies of God. If we cannot choose God, how then can we choose to be enemies of Him? It seems John has made the same error as James and Joshua in concluding that people can actually choose to do God's will. Unconditional Election: Your notion of Total Depravity is wholly dependent on your view of Unconditional Election - the idea that God chooses who will be saved. If human beings do not contribute anything to salvation, why then does Paul so ignorantly boast that because of him many praised God?[8] Why would Paul so arrogantly try to convince people about the veracity of Jesus[9] if he knew that people are not convinced—they are chosen? Why would he argue so persuasively about the kingdom of God[10] if he knew nobody could be persuaded - they could only be chosen? Why is it that so many people believed as a direct result of the preaching of the Gospel?[11] If man contributes nothing to salvation then why are we called to share the good news?[12] What purpose will that fulfill? Limited Atonement: Salvation is a gift, on that I hope we can agree. Now if God chooses those who will be saved, then it is impossible to believe in unlimited atonement (that Jesus died for all people). By way of analogy, imagine that I buy a gift for my wife. However, when I buy this gift I actually have absolutely no intention of actually giving the gift to her. It stands to reason that a gift is only a gift if it is bought with the intention of giving it. If God never planned on choosing you, then what was the point of dying for you? John makes it clear that whoever believes God allows them to become children of God.[23] So do we all have the ability to draw near to God and accept His grace? The Calvinist would say no. But if God really wants all to come to repentance[24] why should we imagine that he did not make it possible for all to do so? This is where limited atonement comes into play. If God really gave His son as a ransom for all men[25], and he really loved the whole world that he gave His only son[26], why would we think that he only died for our sins? He must have also died for the sins of the whole world.[27] And if it is true that Christ died for the sins of the whole world, he must also draw all men to himself.[28] That means if Christ died for all men and draws them, then all men can die with Christ and choose to live for Him.[29] Jesus' death on the cross was absolutely universally sufficient, it was not however, universally efficient.[30] That is to say, it is only limited in regards to the fact that not all men will respond. But all men CAN respond.[31] Are you not convinced that since through Adam sin condemned the whole world that through the second Adam all men can be redeemed?[32] Or was the fall greater than the redemption? Do you really think that Christ's precious water is not open to all who wish?[33] Perseverance of the Saints: I'll have to skip Irresistible Grace due to space restrictions. If it is true that God chooses us for salvation and that faith is something that God does and not man, then we will have to reconcile that with the fact that the Bible teaches that man can lose his salvation. How is that possible if salvation is something unilaterally done on God's side of the isle? If God's chosen will be irresistibly drawn and persevere to the end, why does the author of Hebrews insist that those who have been enlightened can fall?[34] Why does Jesus insist that his followers can fall away from their faith?[35] Why does Peter insist that those who have been saved by the knowledge Christ are in a worse position than a nonbeliever if they fall away[36] (why would Peter say that if it indeed were not possible) ? So it is abundantly clear to me that the process of salvation requires both man and creator. God wants genuine love, so He requires a genuine free willing response to His grace. Conclusion: I'll have to respond to your critiques in my following round. Sources: [1] Hebrews 11 [2] Matthew 7:13-14 [3] 1 Timothy 2:4 [4] John 1:9 [5] James 4:4 [6] Joshua 24:15 [7] John 7:17 [8] Galatians 1:24 [9] Acts 28:23 [10] Acts 19:8 [11] Acts 4:4; Acts 9:42 ; Acts 17:12 ; Acts 18:8; Acts 19:18 ; Acts 21:20 ; etc. [12] Matthew 28:19-20 [13] Genesis 4:4 [14] Genesis 6:9 [15] Job 1:1 [16] Romans 3:23 [17] Isaiah 53:6 [18] 2 Samuel 22:24 [19] Genesis 4:7 [20] Hebrews 10:22 . Hebrews 4:16 Hebrews 7:25 . Hebrews 11: [21] James 4:8 [22] Psalms 18:25 [23] John 1:12 [24] 2 Peter 3:9 [25] 1 Timothy 2:6 [26] John 3:16 [27] 1 John 2:2 [28] John 12:32 [29] 2 Corinthians 5:14-15 [30] 1 Timothy 4:10 [31] Matthew 11:28 [32] Romans 5:18 [33] Revelation 22:17 [34] Hebrews 6:4-6 [35] Matthew 24:10 [36] 2 Peter 2:20-21