Baptism is a salvation issue.

You stated this. My opponent replied to this by stating that "the church was not born", = irrelevant, - this debate is about "physical baptism in relation to salvation" .. ,not when, if, before, or after, a particular event, I have provided a perfect example of a man receiving salvation without a physical baptism, (Luke 23:43) which alone proves my case, ! My reply. Con had asked me how the thief on the cross was saved. My reply was the church was not born yet. I then went on and gave total proof that the church was born on the day of Pentecost. Con did not like it. So he said it did not have anything to do with the debate. What I am trying to explain to con was the church was not born until the day of Pentecost in the book of Acts. Meaning all of the baptism verses con is giving, were before the church was born. So his verses mean nothing to me. Besides the baptism con gave me in revelation. Revelation is a symbolic book. The baptism of fire is symbolic. The writer was trying to get the point across that people going to be engulfed in flames. Just like as a water baptism. You stated this. Yes baptism does save us, but where in this passage or any other passage are we taught that it's a physical water baptism that saves us ? = the teaching doesn't exist, = there is no such passage ! = "Not of works" (Eph 2:9) the passage tells you what the baptism is, = "not the putting away of the filth of the flesh" = washing of sin, = water baptism", but the answer of a good conscience toward God" = belief in God,= spiritual baptism, My opponent appears to be tripping over his own passages My reply 1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were SAVED BY WATER. ***Fact Peter is talking about physical water like the days of Noah.*** 1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: ***Fact as we see here water baptism saves us.*** This is clearly a water baptism if you look at verse 20. You stated this. Eph 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast. "NOT of works" = "getting ourselves physically baptized does not save us" = "Not of yourselves", we can do nothing to save ourselves, My reply. James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works. ***Fact James says show me thy faith without thy works and I will show you my faith by my works.*** James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. ***Fact faith is built on works.*** James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? ***Fact you prove your faith by works.*** James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. ***Fact faith is nothing without works.*** Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. ***Fact your going to be judged according to your works.*** So as you can see here con did not no what he was saying when he said that the bible teaches that there is no more works based salvation. There for baptism is a work. I proved that the bible teaches that you show you faith by your works. Meaning that baptism is still necessary. You stated this. = "the eunuch had already been born of God" = spiritually baptized, due to his belief, ..1 John 5:1 says " Whosoever (presently) believeth that Jesus is the Christ is (has already been) born of God.= born again of the spirit., = second birth. - John 3:3 = "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God".= "the eunuch was born of Water" My reply. Just because he believed that Jesus was the Son of God does not make him spiritually baptized. Meaning if you cant prove that he was baptized at the point he believed, I am right. You sated this. we are baptized For ( = because) the remission of sins, again who can tell if we have been forgiven, who has the right to baptize other than God himself ? = No body, who are we told to trust other than Jesus for our salvation ?,, = "no body", We are not saved by ourselves, or anyone else claiming to be able to save us, other than Jesus, My reply Then what are we repenting for. Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. ***Fact baptism washes away sins.*** You stated this. Allow me to end this post, with explaining a scenario. according to my opponents beliefs, an Arab living this entire life in the desert alone with no water cannot get into heaven, because he cannot be physically baptized by another person in water, yet we read that this Arab can be given salvation in Rom 1:20 = "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: My reply. False that is not what my beliefs are. Con obviously has no relationship with God. Otherwise he would trust God to provide water for that Arab to be baptized physically. Also that in no way says that Paul is teaching that a physical baptism is not necessary. Luke 18:27 And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God. ***Fact all things are possible with God.*** You sated this. Only religion which is totally dependant on their followers for self survival, preach the necessity of a physical water baptism. My reply. Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. ***Fact Peter commanded that the Gentiles to be baptized. He didn't say oh please be baptized, or you should be baptized. No. Peter said be ye baptized.We know its a physical baptism because of these other verses in Acts.*** Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. Acts 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. As I open round three I would like to say that the con seems to be adding words to the bible by stating things that have in no way any thing to do with the verse he states. I would also like to say that I have proven that the baptism after the church was born on the day of pentecost was with water.