RESOLVED: In a fight to the death, Darth Vader would defeat Darth Revan

OFF-CASE: I'd just like to point out that I am not plagiarizing as I did cite the person who I got this argument from; I acknowledged that this wasn't my work and acknowledged whose work this belonged, thus not plagiarism. Onto my rebuttal. RE: "My first point is that Vader was known as one of the best fighters of his time" Yes, of HIS time. First, let us remember that the force wielders in the films are of the time where much of knowledge of the force from the past has been forgotten. They know of only a fraction due to a fraction of holycrons. This is why it's considered impressive for Darth Sidious to know Force Storm (whereas as seen in KOTOR, this a move which a large portion of the sith ranks are familiar with). Second, we must keep in mind that Vader had lost his human appendages, thus at the same time, had lost a large portion of his abilities which he had in Episode III. This is why we see Vader as slow and clunky in his movements. Third, we must remember that during the original trilogy, there were not that many force wielders around (due the Emperor's "order 66" during Revenge of the Sith). With these three points being taken into consideration, we know that Vader's potential for force/saber abilities are far below that of the potential for force wielders during Revan's time, that Vader fighting style is limited and predictable due to his state of health and that there were not that many force wielders to compare him with. Thus, CON claiming that Vader was one of the the best fighters of HIS time (in particular) is absolutely meaningless when comparing him to someone such as Revan. In addition, even if we are to go so far as to compare Revan to Vader (prior to his defeat against Obiwan), it matters little as the fact remains that Vader got his butt handed to him by a force wielder far less powerful than himself (Obiwan), thus this doesn't speak much of his abilities. And given that Revan was known for his genius as well as keeping a cool head, it is reasonable to conclude that even if Revan were less powerful than Vader, he would be able to beat him in the same manner Obi-wan had (not to mention the fact that Revan's force/saber knowledge is endless in comparison to Obi-wan's). RE"My next contention is that Darth Vader was always prepared. " Why wasn't he prepared for the trouncing Luke (an inexperienced Jedi with very little real training might I add) handed him in ROTJ? How did he (a so-called ace pilot and someone who is force sensitive) get shot down by Han Solo in the first place? How is it that in the recent "Force Unleashed" game, he was made out to look like a pathetic fool when facing off against "The Apprentice" as seen in the vid to the right. http://www.youtube.com... Sure, you might argue that the apprentice was simply more powerful, but then why didn't Vader simply stick to the idea of using the apprentice to kill the emperor rather than give the apprentice a reason to want to kill him (Vader)? As far as this business about Revan goes, I would have to disagree with my opponent. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Revan would have been defeated by Bastilla and her companions. In the game, Revan and two other party members take down an army of Sith Masters, apprentices and such. As shown in one of the cutscenes, Malak is not surprised that Revan is able to do this and simply states that these troops are simply being used to stall (not to actually defefat Revan). This was before Malak knew Revan had become far more powerful. So tell me: If it is easily understood that Revan can (even with the help of two companions) take out an army of Sith, why should one even consider believing that he would have lost to Bastilla and a few other Jedi? Also, don't you find it strange that Malak would need to fire down on Revan within the safety of a battleship? If Revan could be defeated so easily, why didn't Malak just grab a few Sith Masters and just gang up on Revan at his own convenience? Also, just to be clear, I'm talking about Revan at the end the game (the Revan who seeks to go to the outer rim and go find the true sith). RE"My basis of this is quite simple; he had a higher midichlorian count. This is apparent in the movies when it is stated that he had the highest count to date." Doesn't matter. Pretty much all the information on past force wielders had been lost over the years. There's no way they'd know Revan's midichlorian count (much less Exar Kun's, Nihulus's, etc). Plus, given that the force wielding feats (sun moving, planet consuming) are far greater during the time of the Old republic, there is an abundant amount of evidence for my assertion. All that being said, even if you don't buy this, midichlorian count doesn't mean everything. Again, look back to Obi-wan laying the smack down on Anakin. RE: "My 4th contention is that Vader could endure a lot more than Revan could. " Not true. When you equip Revan's robes (or the light side robes provided in the star forge), your stats increase by an abundant amount. Thus, Revan's clothing brings him benefits as well. Not to mention that Vader's clothing is actually detrimental given how slow it makes him. In addition, the damage from force lightning would be far greater given that Vader's suit is metal. "Finally, it is illogical to even compare Vader to Revan. Due to the style of game, the combat strength or Revan could vary. " Not at all. The means of debating as PRO is rather simple. As PRO, you simply have to prove the regardless of what combat strength Revan is given, that Vader would still win In response to PRO's conclusion, I cannot help but notice that his points hinge on Vader after he had lost his (the Vader who supposedly is always prepared, has an amored suit) appendages and Vader before he had lost them (The Vader with the high midichlorian count). In all honesty, I had intended to have this debate with the Darth Vader of the original trilogy being taken into consideration, but I'm willing to argue against both incarnations of Vader. That said, it is simply illogical to argue these two different incarnations as if they are the same (as PRO is doing). DROPPED ARGUMENTS: PRO has not once addressed any of the 5 points I made in R1, so please pull them all across to this round. That'll do it for now. Till next round. :D