Resolved: The Death Penalty Should be Abolished

I will mostly be addressing cons arguments in this round. ___ "If you want life sentences to actually be for life, then the risk of locking up an innocent person in jail would also be prevalent if not more so his system ___ If there is no death penalty, lawyers would be able to focus more time and resources on wrongful convictions for these men who are serving LWOP. ___ "Second, the study done by Gross does not prove innocents have been executed" ___ True, but Gross does state he is certain based on the numbers that there have been wrongful executions. Just to give you some examples: [1] http://www.theguardian.com... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org... [3] http://en.wikipedia.org... [4] http://www.chron.com... ____ Unfortunately in many cases across the United States the most damming evidence can be witness testimony. In many of the examples this was the main evidence used to wrongfully execute the accused. ____ "Studies claiming the DP is costly fail to take into account plea bargains. Before plea bargains are accounted for, the DP costs about 2.6 more as LWOP. But when the they are controlled for, the DP is only about 1.5 times as costly" ___ This report indicates the total costs accounting for multiple variables by year for each state with the death penalty and includes cost comparisons. And like you said, yes it still costs the state much more. [5] http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org...; ____ Back to deterrence then. Con did address Fagan in some respects but still can not prove, as Fagan pointed out, that any criminal actually thinks about the death penalty before considering committing crime. There is no observable evidence of this. It is speculative at best. The only thing that can be observed is regret and that is not sufficient enough. ____ I find it humorous that con cites a criticism of the NAS by the person the NAS was criticizing. But I digress. ____ Con continues to bring up econometrics as the saving grace for his deterrence argument and insists that this is the only credible research done on the subject. He even says that because the people who discredited his studies were not econometric experts that they were not qualified to make that assesment. Unfortunately for con econometric studies are essentially the only studies that may lead to his conclusion because suprisingly as I have found some of them do not. Cons only proof is one that only is on his side some of the time. The main criticism of econometrics is that "Models that find deterrence effects of capital punishment often rely on rather bizarre specifications. In a rigorous and comprehensive review Cameron (1994, 214) observed that, “What emerges most strongly from this review is that obtaining a significant deterrent effect of executions seems to depend on adding a set of data with no executions to the time series and including an executing/non-executing dummy in the cross-section analysis . . . there is no clear justification for the latter practice.” ". [6] http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org... ____ Essentially econometric users have to compensate for the lack of data and it obscures the results. So sometimes the results of these studies are different because of the data that should or shouldn't be left out. On the contrary hundreds of comparisons have been done on the homicide rates in states with and without the DP and have found no deterrence. [6] http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org... ___ Two econometricians weigh in on their own findings, "Cloninger and Marchesini concede that “studies such as the present one that rely on inductive statistical analysis cannot prove a given hypothesis correct.” However, they argue that when a large number of such studies give the same result, this provides “robust evidence” which “causes any neutral observer pause.” ____ Another reason to ignore econometricians on this subject is that many of them misrepresent data as mentioned before to fit their bias for BOTH sides of the argument! "In response to Ehrlich’s (1975) initial econometric study, other econometricians using the same data included Yunker (1976), who found a stronger deterrent effect than Ehrlich, and Cloninger (1977), who supported his findings. But Bowers and Pierce (1975), Passel and Taylor (1977), and Hoenack and Weiler (1980) found no deterrence at all". [6] http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org... ______ Finally in 2012 the National Research Council of the National Academies released their review of over three decades worth of research involving the sorts of methods con insists are the only credible methods of determining deterrence. They found that the research consistently contained three major flaws. 1. The studies do not factor in the effects of noncapital punishments that may also be imposed. _____ 2. The studies use incomplete or implausible models of potential murderers’ perceptions of and response to the use of capital punishment _____ 3. Estimates of the effect of capital punishment are based on statistical models that make assumptions that are not credible. ______ [7] http://www.nap.edu... [8] http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org... _______ At this point it is up to the voters to determine the credibility of the econometric models of study though i will continue to cite the examples of their failures if con continues to insist that they are as solid as he claims they are. _______ " Even though the criminologists think the DP is a weak deterrent, 100% of the sample actually agreed the DP deterred some [2]. " _______ This is not an accurate conclusion considering that as can be seen from your source 91% said the DP was not any stronger a deterrent then LWOP. _______ "But this criticism falls apart when my evidence included 400 people being released from jail who had life sentences. It also falls apart when there is a fairly long list of criminals--often who murder and rape--who had LWOP sentences but were let free and ended up killing again [7]. The death penalty is the only 100% effective way to prevent recidivism. " ________ Con completely ignores my previous point. Just as we could reform the system to improve the death penalty we could just as easily implement more absolute sentences in terms of LWOP. His point is moot. Not to mention its dishonest to claim the DP is the ONLY way possible to prevent recidivism. Like I said, if we instituted a policy where LWOP was absolute with a lack of evidence to a convicts innocence, it would have the same effect. ________ "Why should people like me fund LWOP cases if we support the DP?" _______ I addressed this in the last round, Even if you argue that the other side is being forced to pay for that persons meals and so forth, you are also paying for their detention. You are paying for the feeling they will have every morning when they wake up and realize they will never feel the outside world because of what they did. After death people do not know consequence, they do not know right or wrong. They are relieved of their conscience and of their past. If a family who suffered from a violent crime pays for life without parole, the criminal will face that punishment for a lifetime. Also LWOP costs much less and as discussed before can be modified to absolutely keep these people in prison. ____ "Many people also complain about funding roads, when it is obviously a public good. Others oppose funding police departments because the police may oppose marijuana usage. But this does not mean the existence of public roads or a police force is immoral. ________ I don't think roads can very well be equated to a human life Con. Most people favor the roadways, police, and fire departments. There are far more who oppose the DP on a moral basis and in no way see it as a public good. I find it hard to believe you don't see any difference between funding roadways and funding the death of a human being. _________ In closing I ask voters to consider the following: Consider the legitimacy of the numerous and conflicting studies using econometrics, Consider the reality that tax payer dollars have and will kill the innocent, Consider that as a society we condone an act that we condemn in other countries because the circumstances of the crime are viewed as more severe in their country (just as severe as murder). Consider that the DP simply isn't worth the cost to us in our current fiscal situation. Consider that the DP gives government leeway to change its definitions of what constitutes the punishment. Consider the very real possibility that criminals do not feel this deterrence before committing a crime but do feel regret after years of not knowing freedom. ________ Thank you to Con, I await your response