Dota 2 v. League of Legends

I should note that a debate like this is trying to compare apples to oranges, so it's rough. I will go into some rebuttals and then into the main contentions. I feel some of these arguments are going to even out in the end and the main factor in this is actually going to fall into the complexity argument. Which is what I really want to focus on. 1) Complexity I am going to tie in all my previous points from other rounds. Meaning I am going to discuss runes , skills, items etc. My contenders primary argument against runes and masteries (along with summoner spells ) , is an equal playing field. He just makes a brief poke at this saying, he defeats my argument because a level 5 can't fight a level twelve. That displays a fundamental misunderstanding of how the matching and ranking system works. First a level 1 or 5 generally won't match a level twelve pre level 30. If you are a level 5, 90 percent of the time you are going to line up with people right around your level. Sure you may have heal and someone may have ignite, but this is only the case for 1 or 2 levels pre 30. You usually find this around levels 8-12 after that everyone has the same summoner spells and even then most of the levels are within 1 or 2 levels of each other. It's also not an unequal playing field as there are counters to flash and smite. People get ghost and heal at level 1 which can be just as or more effective with different strategies. Heal can cleanse the ignite off , and ghost can get you out of sticky situations. Just because someone is a level or two ahead of you, does not effect the game that much. He's also saying people have more runes than other people which is generally false. There is a certain amount of exp that it takes to get to level 30 in leagues. Up unto that point the ranking system is pretty balanced and fair, meaning you are facing people around your level. Each time or win you lose you get points to buy runes or characters with. So when people buy runes, they can pick and chose what runes they want to buy. Some people will buy AD some will buy AP, some will buy life steal. It opens the game up for character customization and the playing field is in fact level because everyone is around the same level and has around the same number of points. Note this picture to show that it is not pay to win. You may lp for runes and masteries My adversary keeps asserting that leagues is pay 2 win which is false, because the only actual *real money* you can put into the game is to get skins, champs, and aesthetics. Not actual items that will impact the game. All the actual runes and masteries are gained as you level, with the leveling being done on a level playing field. Post 30 everyone has their max runes, and can play ranked or regular to earn more if they want to focus on more than one area. Think of it like this, dota has a base for characters. Meaning when you pick a champ , what you pick is what you get. Leagues allows you to have that base line while giving you the benefit of changing that line to optimize lane match ups. The system is in fact really fair because the ranking system is really well done, and you match people around your own level. a) ItemsThis is now subjective as to which items are better so this is not really a factor in this debate anymore. His items do the same thing or less than the ones I displayed. This is now merely preference so we can effectively negate this point as a stand still. Items in both games allow you to slow, deal damage, heal , cleanse etc. There is now way to determine a winner on this specific sub point other than voter preferenceb) SpellsThis is actually a point I can go into. My adversary is pointing to specific instances where spells do a lot of damage and are broken according to him. Noting that if leagues had this damage , people would only pick that specific champ. The issue is the damage that he is referring to is directly related to dota. Health and stats in both games work differently. What is 1k in one game could equate to 500 in another. He is literally focusing only on power which is such a fallacious argument. The depth and complexity of the skills are what matter. So let's examine is the complexity of the spells. As I stated and which was basically non refuted, is that certain champions in leagues give you more play making potential. Dota is literally limited to around 2-5 champions that have optimized skills for doing insane stuff. Leagues has many. With kat you can dance in and out of fights. Lee sin is the king of making plays and being able to effectively use your skills well. Note the first video at the top of the page. His sonic wave allowing you to mark enemies and then hit another q to follow up, or using his shield to ward jump in and out of fights, with us ultimate being able to knock people away or back into team fights. The skill and outplay potential is virtually no comparison to dota. You have yasuo who can dash around fights and knock people up. You have zed who can shadow to shadow, that can QSS with items to reduce debuffs and then go back to his other shadow. Note second video. Leagues in general just has far more play making potential. http://www.youtube.com...http://www.youtube.com...c) Build Paths this ties into the previous ones but build paths are something else leagues has that dota fails on. Take kayle, you can pick kayle and build him ap, ad , or hybrid and each one is played differently and can be utilized in different ways. The same is true with many champions, and tagging this on to rune pages and masteries, you can optimize your skills for lane match ups. 2) LayoutWe are at a fundamental difference in understanding and agreement on this point. He is asserting that a large map requires greater coordination but I think that is without doubt wrong. It's a simple case. Big map = less map mobility. Smaller map = more map mobility. When you throw mobility boots on a jungle in leagues , he can go from mid to bot in like 7 seconds. Knowing when ganks are coming, how fast they can come, and chaining off the ganks requires much more depth and team work than dota. The smaller map is a huge factor in proper teams fights and knowledge. 3) skinshis quote" You have the option to buy characters with real money and have a higher champion pool and more to choose from, having an advantage over those who don't spend any money on the game. If that's not P2W then I don't know what is anymore. "False. You can buy champions with real money if you chose, but you can also earn them. If you dump 1 grand into the game the only thing it does is open up a bigger pool to you. This does not give you an advantage that much either way. Most people focus only on a few champions to get good with them. While you can counter pick champions better if you have more champions open, the runes and masteries allows you to utilize smaller champions pools and outplay people that dump money into buying champions. Buying champions does not make you good at the game. I can take ezreal mid, top, or adc and still win my lane. Plus ranked Que requires you to have 10 champions open before you go in. This is fundamentally different than being able to buy runes and materies that would actually give you a bump. Anyone that improves their lane knowledge and optimizes their runes and masteries can win any lane match up and have an advantage over someone with a large champion pool. skins are all aesthetics. They give you no benefits other than the joy of seeing them, which helps fund the competitive scene. The more money people spend on skins, the bigger the tournaments and prize money. Having skins open is a great thing in leagues. Dota 2 having way less skins, and way less options for aesthetics for a cheaper amount actually hurts them. Leagues has them at a fair price that everyone is willing to pay, which is generally (5 - 10dollars) for a skin with the exceptions of legendary skins that all go to funding riot and the competitive scene. 4) Fun and Competitive. I agree fun is subjective. So we can dismiss this point other than reviewing what most people consider fun. The fact that 27 times more people consider leagues fun is a argument in my favor. Leagues has 8 x the player base dota does for a reasona) Competitive " I don't deny the competitive scene in LoL is a LOT better than in Dota 2 "Ill dismiss the rest and take that starting sentence as a concession at this point. 5) Sexually aesthetic and pleasing girl skinsMy adversary notes that this draws people to the game and makes them spend more money which ultimately fuels the competitive scene more. R) Steam Integration1) Community Workshophe asserts you can't customize skins on leagues, which is false. http://leaguecraft.com...a website dedicated to crafting skins that you can dl and use in game2) VoiceLeagues has a link to curse voice in game and when you log in half the time along with notations of how to dowload it. It takes 2 seconds and is a TP program supported by leagues that requires half the bandwith of normal chat programs. It was also optimized to help keep track of buff timers, respawns, etc. 3) OverlayLeagues has something very similar which is called lolking and mobfire, which are both actively advertised and which riot backs. Both give you game knowledge about champions, and in game stats. http://www.lolking.net...http://www.mobafire.com...4) MarketI've explained why cheaper skins is actually bad