We should neither hate Hitler nor respect Martin Luther King

=] As to the question of the title, the last thing I wished to do was mislead CON or the readers. I did not add the word Junior for the same reason that I did not add the word Adolf - they are both famous enough that they are still recognisable from their slightly shortened names. If you were to google Martin Luther King you will find that the first page of links are entirely about MLK Jr [1][2] because that is who people normally associate with the name MLK. I also added a link to a page about MLK Jr. as part of my definitions list in case some people were unsure as to whether I meant MLK Jr. or MLK Snr. [1]. http://www.debate.org... [2]. http://www.debate.org... I sincerely apologise for any confusion caused. I was somewhat suprised that CON spent the entirity of round 1 discussing whether he accepted my premises or not, I was under the asumption that if you disagreed with the premises of the instigator then you either did not accept the debate or messaged the instigator asking for a change in the premises since this would save a whole round being effectively wasted - which is what has, regretably, happened. I have asked other, more senior, memebers of the DDO community and have been informed that this is not standard practise and can be considered as bad conduct. Luckily CON has agreed to my first premise - namely, that there are no supernatural things such as souls in this world; but he has rejected to my second premise that these people are not to be judged for their beliefs. However at the end of his paragraph, half of which was an annecdotal account of verbal abuse suffered by his Jewish friend, CON says: " Now maybe these people shouldn't be defined by their beliefs, but if not, then definitely by their actions" I shall take this as meaning that you would be willing to debate with the premise "Hitler and MLK are defined by their actions and so should be judged by their actions". So without further ado, here are my reasons for saying that Hitler and MLK should not receive the hatred and respect they respectively receive from the public. 1) You would not hate a glass beaker because it was too small to hold the amount of coffee you wanted or if it broke when you poured hot water into it because you know this is not the glass's fault - it is the manufacture's fault for making it too small/ not heat resistant enough. Similarly you would not love the glass beaker which holds just the right volume or never shatters when boiling water is poured into it. This is all because we know that the glass beaker did not choose out of spite to shatter and spill boiling water everywhere or choose out of love to become just big enough for our cup of coffee. 2) So, logically, if we are at emotional neutrality towards a defective glass beaker which had no choice in its action of shattering; then we should also be at emotional neutrality to a person if it was shown that the person - like the beaker - had no real choice in his/her actions. 3) I am arguing that Hitler and MLK did not have any real choice in becoming the people they became because people are who they are down to a mixture of their genes and their environment. It is obvious that they had no choice in their genes so that leaves their environment. Their environment (the people, books, views etc. they are exposed to) are also not down to their choice - we cannot choose our parent's wages, and any "choices" they make which may change their environment (such as changing schools, moving to a new country, getting a new job) will have been made because of their genes and their previous environment. A simple example: a tall teenager raised in a socioeconomically disadvantaged household who went to a inner-city school might "choose" to drop out and pursue a career in professional basketball. Ofcourse there will be numerous other genetic and environmental factors such as: lung capactiy, efficiency of cardiovascular system, body build, whether his parents are supportive of his dream, whether his parents feed him food of high nutritional value that allows his body to reach its full potential and enables him to be better at basketball. As you can see all the choices and actions we undertake are down our environment and our genes - both of which are beyond our control. This is why we can no more hate Hitler than we can the glass which shatters when boiling water is poured into it - because neither had a choice in what they are and consequently what they did.