Unlimited Consciousness

Ogan: Thank you so much for your reply, it is truly an honour to debate with you. (However experimentation has shown that consciousness can be detected and observed,) Ogan: Surely you mean evidence of the correlation between lower mental activity and the brain can be observed? Even over a century ago and still true today, Martineau answers: "The passage from the physics of the brain to the corresponding facts of consciousness is unthinkable. Granted that a definite thought and a molecular action in the brain occur simultaneously; we do not possess the intellectual organ nor apparently any rudiments of the organ, which would enable us to pass by a process of reasoning from one to the other. They appear together, but we do not know why. Were our minds and senses so expanded, strengthened and illuminated, as to enable us to see and feel the very molecules of the brain; were we capable of following all their motions, all their groupings, all their electric discharges, if such there be; (which science now knows them to be – my words) and were we intimately acquainted with the corresponding states of thought and feeling, we should be as far as ever from the solution of the problem, 'How are these physical processes connected with the facts of consciousness?' The chasm between the two classes of phenomena would still remain intellectually impassable." (True Consciousness is a concept for which no evidence exists.) Ogan: True Consciousness is not a concept but is its own evidence to those who Awaken. Reality is only a realisation of the senses. True Consciousness is the awakening to Actuality. (The onus is on my opponent to show some form of evidence to suggest that there is a form of consciousness outside the realms of the physically observed.) Ogan: Evidence of this Higher Consciousness is out of all relation to reality or a realisation of the senses of the temporary body, which is a mere reflection of Actuality. And therefore, the evidence received by many recipients cannot be communicated from one to another, but some of the more important evidence given to skilled Doctors regarding NDE may be of assistance… should one wish to research. (If reference to this my opponent explains that, "True Consciousness, which uses this body and animal ‘mind' as its instrument for learning purposes. Therefore, the area of our debate is how anyone can prove the existence of a superior Consciousness that uses the body, it senses and intellect for an unknown Purpose – that Purpose only being known when that Individual Consciousness either reveals itself to the lower intellect or is freed from the restrictions of the body and brain etc., But that's the point I made earlier in a comment – only that individual who experiences such a thing KNOWS it as it is! The fact that people have dreams, hallucinations, crazy notions and a kind of blind faith bears no relationship at all with this Superior Consciousness which cannot be known by intellectual debate") (Here my opponent seems to state that, a) This debate concerns proof of existence for a true or transcendent consciousness. Ogan: I repeat: only that individual who experiences such a thing KNOWS it as it is, and therefore gains direct evidence! And there are many such individuals! ( b) Such proof can not be presented in a debate. Ogan: I agree that no proof can be communicated regarding that actual Conscious state to anyone, whether in a debate or not; but there is important evidence given by many NDE subjects. One I recommend is Dr. Kenneth Ring's NDE Research of the Blind "People Born Blind Can See During a NDE". Patients born blind who had this NDE are then able to understand all concepts of light, colour and perspective which others born blind could never do. Not only could they see after leaving the body, but saw in a far more superior manner to the rest of us. In any case, an old quote, I forget where from: "Concrete consciousness (normal consciousness – my words) cannot be predicated of abstract Consciousness, (True Consciousness – my words) any more than the quality wet can be predicated of water -- wetness being its own attribute and the cause of the wet quality in other things". Or in other words, normal consciousness etc., during our imprisonment with a body, is merely an aspect of a more unified Consciousness, or in the analogy, wetness being only an aspect and therefore unable to comprehend water. (Therefore I feel that my opponent has conceded the debate.) Ogan: The debate is not conceded (Hallucinations can occur when fully awake, sober, rational and uninjured. In such instances we can only know that we are hallucinating when such visions conflict with logic, or the rest of a given reality. In the absence of these we can not know the true nature of reality. Should I suddenly hear the voice of God in my head how will I ascertain at that point if I am hallucinating, speaking with my sub-conscious, insane, or talking to God?) Ogan: I am fully experienced in the power and nature of hallucinations from certain dangerous experiments and can definitely say that the brain, nerves, logic, reason etc are but weak protectors against such things and are quite easily shaken to their foundations. However, True Identity stemming from True Consciousness, sees them as mere child's play, while the less fortunate among us become lunatics and messengers of some voice or other. They, reason, logic, wide experience etc., are only useful when dealing with exterior crisis in the lower consciousness. Also, the nature of reality is only a realisation of the senses and animal brain, whereas, Actuality is quite unknown to those senses and brain… unless the brain is given memories, say, from an NDE or any other means. (I do not feel that this issue, nor the issues of False Memory Syndrome or eyewitness clash have been addressed.) Ogan: I thought I had addressed them? I think if you check I have stated numerous times the difference between the lower personal consciousness, with its memory, senses and brain, such being subject to all kinds of weaknesses, faults and hallucinations, and the only part subject to direct experiment here, whilst, Higher Consciousness being subject to non of them, rules over them completely. (To summarise my opponent argues for a true consciousness, he provides no evidence for this, my opponent claims that only personal experience can reveal this higher state, but fails to address the issue that personal experiences are subjective and fallible.) Ogan: I am in full agreement, personal experience is indeed subjective and fallible and that's the point. Person - from the Latin Persona… actor's mask, character in a play, human being; - is merely a ‘sounding board' for the True Individual and only an aspect of the Real Actor, who is, for the most part, unconscious during incarnation and is only conscious of concrete reality through the bodily brain and senses, yet awhile! In summary: True Consciousness of our actual Individuality cannot be known by a process of reason, brain or senses, but can be fully experienced by those able or ready to receive it. That this Knowledge or Revelation cannot be communicated from one to another but must indeed be experienced. I would go further and state all units of true Consciousness form as a unity an unknown ASPECT of God's Mind. Therefore, the Kingdom of God is WITHIN You! I await your you reply.