Prayer is a failure to reason honestly and is the perfection of narcissism.

I'd like to speak on specific quotes made by my opponent, and then outline some key voting issues this round. "Don't get to relaxed pro I have alot more tearing up of your case to do. Just not enough characters to finish all of it this round. "I truly wish there were more statements made like this on DDO. Most see it as an opponent being disrespectful, I see it as as a competitive edge rearing its head in debate! Onto the voting issues. . "So since people believe their god probably exists and that god probably provided the bible to people for their benefit,then at some level it is reasonable for them to think when it says god listens to their prayer that he really does. " As stated before, there is no reason to believe that everything in the bible is the infallible word of God, let alone that God decided to write a book. "How are we to determine the correct kind of logic for a Christian or religious person to follow? They believe any human logic that disagrees with there creators thinking is flawed reasoning. So with that being said how does someone expect for then to listen to anything different from what they believe. "By applying the logic & deductive reasoning that all people use on a daily basis. If God is as described and the natural world is as appears, prayer is both pointless and ineffective. The problem with the statement after my opponent's question is, yet again, that he is sampling more reasoning that is not honest to reason itself. At some point, one must step back and make sure they're still on a path of sanity and reject all commandments to lead away from sanity. Religious people who uphold the bible exhibit this characteristic every Sabbath when they decide not to kill their neighbors for working on the Sabbath as asked in Exodus 31:12-15, or stone their disobedient children. It is this form of reflection that shows that the religious have deductive reasoning when reading their text, but it is only selective. Thus, opening the door so that prayer can be judged according to reasoning skills they exhibit in other areas. "We cannot determine if there argument is 100 percent true or 100 percent not true because none of us without a doubt can prove god exists or not, we can neither prove if there manuscripts are the words of their creators. They believe what they believe. It is not insane or illogical for anyone to follow their beliefs at all. "Agreed, we cannot prove for 100% certainty that there is or is not a God. Much like we cannot prove with 100% certainty that their are invisible witches on brooms flying around at night. My opponent and I will have to fundamentally disagree with his claim that it is not insane or illogical for people to follow their beliefs. Beliefs are not exempt from logic and reason. If I believed that everyday I talked to Megatron and he told me things I needed to do in order for him to be able to come to earth, the minute I decide to follow those beliefs and act on them, I've just became illogical and insane. This is not a new concept, this is the reason there are people in psych wards worldwide. Voting issues-The failure to reason honestly, and perfection of narcissism. My opponent has misunderstood the meaning of the phrase in the title, ". .perfection of narcissism. " It was never intended to mean that those who pray are only praying for personal gain. It encompasses the totality of the idea without any specificity. Whether a person is praying for the betterment of their neighbor's job situation, or his own personal wealth, one must believe that they are the end all to be all in the decision making of their deity. My opponent has chosen to outline Christianity, so I will use their example as well. The Christian God is said to be omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, & omnibenevolent. This provides 2 separate ways the idea of self-centeredness can be presented. One can either think God is considering his words over the situation itself and will therefore change his mind because the person who is praying has a telepathic connection to a God that the person he's praying for doesn't have. Or one can think that they're going to change the mind of a being that is omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, & omnibenevolent because they think that their viewpoint is higher than what God has set forth. Both are the perfection of narcissism, because neither one of these ideas are shown for what they are during the act of prayer. The person is pleading to change the will of a being superior in knowledge to him, on the basis of feeling as if they have a better understanding of how things ought to be, completely void of that conviction. Thus, they go on without any of the guilts associated with the action leading to accepted self-centeredness. My opponent means to ratify the belief in prayer, by using the bible as a reference of infallible word. The premise here is flawed because it is also unreasonable to think that the bible has no wording that is flawed. It is no secret that the bible contains very radical view points and absurd conclusions. Leviticus 21:16-20, "16 Then the LORD said to Moses, 17 "Tell Aaron that in all future generations, his descendants who have physical defects will not qualify to offer food to their God. 18 No one who has a defect may come near to me, whether he is blind or lame, stunted or deformed, 19 or has a broken foot or hand, 20 or has a humped back or is a dwarf, or has a defective eye, or has oozing sores or scabs on his skin, or has damaged testicles. " This sort of arguing for the principle of reason is to suggest that if you're a Christian, anything is reasonable because the bible said so. Because this is flawed reasoning in and of itself, one cannot build reason based on this philosophy. The bible also justifies the stoning of children for being disobedient to their parents, Deuteronomy 21:18-21. It would not be the excerpting of true reason for a Christian to go out and practice this teaching, it would defy all current knowledge of life. The same has been said for the concept of prayer. Because it is unreasonable to think that God is doing something minute in one's own life, yet neglecting the millions of starving children worldwide & because it is absurd to think that you can outsmart or have better perspective than a being that is omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omniscient, and omnipresent, prayer is seen to be the lack of reason, the failure to reason honestly. Though Christians use inductive arguments, as outlined by my opponent, they still must adhere to a higher set of reason and logic. When applied, prayer does not meet that requirement. My opponent says, "A lie is not a lie if the person does not intend to tell a lie when they say it. " However, someone can be irrational and defy logic & reason whether they intend to or not.