Women "pastors/preachers" are rebellious to God, for taking on a man's position.

PRO states Women "pastors/preachers" are rebellious to God, for taking on a man's position. I believe that God is sovereign, and that he can call people to serve as He chooses. Let's look at scripture, culture, history and calling to make this point. Before moving to these arguments we need some definitionsPRO's definition for pastor/preacher is acceptablePastor/preacher is someone that leads the Church (gives the messages from Gods Holy Word).Rebellious : a : given to or engaged in rebellion b : of, relating to, or characteristic of a rebel or rebellionhttp://www.merriam-webster.com...I will be using the word usurp for "to seize or exercise authority or possession wrongfully" which is implied by PRO\s phrase "for taking on a man's position."http://www.merriam-webster.com...With those definitions I want to ask a few questions.The debate in conservative, Bible believing churches usually focuses on the roles of teaching (preaching to the congregation) and organizational leadership (who is the senior pastor). In scripture these roles of leadership and speaking God's word have different titles.Old Testament prophets - hear and speak God's words judges - lead in military, political, judicial matters shepherds - (figuratively) not the sheep herders kings & queens, elders, advisers, officers, overseers and many moreNew Testament prophets elders overseers preacher teacherIf we find even one instance in scripture of God calling a woman these roles you must abandon your simplistic view that God does not call women. 1. Roles of leadership in scripture are not always gender defined! 2. Roles of teaching are not always gender defined! Here are some OT examples of God calling women to His work. Miriam (Ex 15:20) was a prophetess Deborah (Judges 4:4) was a prophetess and judge Esther (Esther 4:15-17) called the people to fast and as queen commanded her uncle. Anna (Luke 2:36) was a prophetess. Here are some NT examples Various women (Luke 8:1-3) who are part of the ministry and had money for support. Older women are to teach (Titus 2:3) Euodia and Syntyche (Php 4:2) worked with Paul and Clement. Leading women (Acts 17:4) Prominent Greek women (Acts 17:12)God calls women to lead and speak God's word. This are the exact roles you have defined for a preacher/pastor Let's look at some cultural issues. - the cultures in Biblical time were run by men. - Women as prophets and leaders would be less acceptable in those cultures than today. GOD CALLED WOMEN TO LEAD AND SPEAK HIS WORD ANYWAY If we find variation in the example of scripture it may be that cultural or situational issues are important as well.Look at this example - If we are in a culture where women are not allowed to lead anywhere or speak out publicly about anything, the act of taking leadership or speaking out would be rebellious IN THAT CULTURE, and the idea of “live at peace with all men” (Rom 12:18 ) would impose restrictions.If women in ministry is even partially a cultural issue, then changes in culture may require that we evaluate what parts of the issue are God’s unchanging nature and will, and what parts are determined by culture.Remember - if it is exclusively cultural - it changes with culture. - if it is exclusively God’s will / character it will not change with culture. - It may also be partially cultural. (like live at peace with all men)Below is a good summary of the women in Luke/Acts http://hermitbrother.blogspot.ca...THESE EXAMPLES SHOW THAT GOD CALLS WOMEN TO LEADERSHIP &GOD CALLS WOMEN TO PROPHECYThis is evidence that 1. God calls women to ministry and 2. Some of the difficulties with women in ministry are cultural.Maybe the clearest commendation of gender equality is Gal 3:26-29)26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.One last consideration is that God continues to call men and women to ministry. Let me work through PRO's questions and statements briefly. PRO references 1 Timothy 2:11-14 - Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. There may be all sorts of reasons why Paul wanted to make clear that this was his position (as opposed to the revealed will of God) I believe this is like 1 Cor 7 where Paul makes clear the difference between His advice and God's command. Look at verse 9 - Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly This is clearly Paul showing his opinion apart from God's command. PRO stated "Now I understand that this verse was pertaining to . . ." I would need some references or documentation for that. I hear too many people claiming some Biblical position only to find out that their "cultural reference is only bad church hearsay sort of like an urban legend. PRO stated "God appointed throughout the Old Testament nothing but men to do His work" This is incorrect! in 2 Kings 22:15 we read about Huldah - She said to them, “Thus says the Lord God of Israel, ‘Tell the man who sent you to me, thus says the Lord, This was not because there were no men to consult. She was the best. PRO asks with distain "what was the outcome with Deborah as the judge??" I suggest she read the book of Judges and see what happend when men were in charge. My particular favourites include the last 3 chapters of Judges. Those were bad times and only a few listened to and obeyed God. PRO refers to Eph 5:22 and following. This is a great scripture for our debate. 22 Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. 24 But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything. The reason I love this scripture for this debat is because it is about authority. The husband being the head of the wife has nothing to do with the roles of leading and prophecy. When I speak as a Bible teacher I am teaching from the authority of God's word - not my own. When I give a word of prophecy (hearing from God and speaking as He commands) it is not my authority. When I lead God's people in worship or prayer it is not my own authority. It is God's Spirit (on my best days) and people (hopefully) see less of me, and more of Jesus. Back to women in ministry or any role to which God has called them. If a lady cop pulls me over it is not her authority, but the authority she speaks for. If I say she should be silent because the Bible says so (in her police role) she is right to arrest me. In the family, God has appointed the husband as the head of the wife. The pastor is not the ruler of the church, Jesus is. I love Jesus' words of instruction in Mark 10:42-25 42 Calling them to Himself, Jesus *said to them, “You know that those who are recognized as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them; and their great men exercise authority over them. 43 But it is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant; 44 and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be slave of all. 45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.” We pastors serve under the authority of Jesus. We are bond slaves. We do not exercise authority like the rulers of the gentiles. Blessings - I look forward to the next round