Time and Energy Have no Beginning From a Biblical and/or Scientific Viewpoint

Pro says "Con describes a person seeing a clock moving at normal speed when in fact the clock has slowed down, and uses this as proof that time can be warped. All this shows is that motion can be slowed, not time, for both the person and the clock have slowed down. But if a person sees a clock slow down because of a singularity, it merely shows his perception has been warped, not time. In reality, the clock was zapped into the centre of the black hole in less than a second. The fact that someone going into the singularity would PERCEIVE events differently doesn"t prove they happen this way, anymore than seeing the sun rise and set proves that it circles the earth. So Con"s theory of time is based on flawed human perception. " This is what my opponent has failed to understand throughout the course of this debate. He fails to acknowledge the known scientific fact that time is relative to the observer. Time would appear to be the same for anything viewing the clock going the same speed. He hides behind this fact by claiming that it is flawed human perception. He failed to support this with anything or how it is relevant. Pro says "Con then says that "Time is also not the movement of events but the order in which they occur. " So if God creates the singularity, then the Big Bang occurs, that"s an order of events, and thus time was around before the Big Bang, and thus the Big Bang was not the beginning of time. " Pro does not include the full quote therefore proving he cannot support his claim. The original quote also added that time is a dimension, one that can be warped. Events may have occurred, but they did not necessarily need to occur in time. Time is simply a dimension that is thought to have always existed by my opponent, so i challenged him to recognize that there must have been a first event. Pro says "Regarding my illustration of clocks ticking outside the singularity, he says "it has no relevance to singularity as there was no elsewhere. " How does Con know this? How does he know there was no place outside the singularity? Yet he believes in God! So if nothing was outside the singularity, then God was either non-existent, or trapped in the singularity. " I know this due to scientific studies . http://www.physlink.com... Pro fails to acknowledge all the science supporting me and shows none to support himself. I stated that I believe that God existed outside of the singularity. It i possible there are other areas in space outside our own universe for god to exit in without being trapped in singularity. That simply makes no sense. Pro says "Theologically, its incorrect to speak of a first event, or else you have the ridiculous situation of a God who was immobile, who literal existence for an eternity doing absolutely nothing. Not even thinking. In this state, unable to even think, God would not be able to create the universe. " It is not incorrect. In fact, it is highly probable. The first event to occur in the dimension of time is defined as the first event. It is agreed upon by scientists that the dimension of time was created by the big bang. God would not need this dimension to exist in as we do so it is pointless to argue that god Pro says " But what he doesn"t get is this. We often locate things relative to where other things are. So where is our universe relative to where God put these other universes where the angels and so on are? Our universe is separated from heaven by literally, nothing but distance. So if something is moving outside our universe, again there must be time outside our universe, outside the singularity which began our universe, for events to happen outside such as creating heaven and other universes. " I get what you are saying, I just disagree. It is likely that the big bang was the creation of time i our universe, and the creation of time in others was another big bang. Pro says that time is required for the creation of the heavens, but I diagree. It makes no sense for one single dimension to have always existed when it was god who laid out the concept of everything including time. Now for my favorite part of the debate! Pro says "Con tries to give an example of infinite density by dividing 1 by 2 over and over again, claiming you will never reach zero. When the fact is that he already went below zero when he reached .25, because anything behind the decimal point on the number line, such as 0.1, is less than zero. " WOW! !! Did he really just say that? ?? So 0.1 is less than 0 now? ? My sources for my 2nd graders out there . http://www.homeschoolmath.net... Pro continues to say "My evidence of the fact that God"s energy was simply converted, is the scientific fact which you accept, that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only converted from one form to another. And science doesn"t claim the Big Bang is the beginning of the universe, but merely the expansion of an already existing universe. " Pro tries to argue that God's energy could have been converted, but I disagree on that for two reasons. God created the laws of science so he would not necessarily need to abide by them because as con has mentioned many times with all of the miracles god has performed, he doesn't go by these laws. Also, there is no biblical evidence for a transfer of energy because Genesis 1 referrers to creation on many levels. It mentioned nothing of conversion. My opponent has shown time and time again how he really lacks the understanding of general scientific concepts such as Relativity and carries minuscule evidence to support his claims. I have quoted many highly acclaimed scientific sources while my opponent takes out pieces of the bible that do not even necessarily support his claim. I have discredited all of his theories using his own quotes and scientific sources of my own. His argument is mostly speculative and I do not believe he has proved that time and energy always existed. In fact I think I proved just the opposite. I state my logic again for the voters P1 Singularity is the beginning of all matter/energy P2 God could have existed in a state outside of singularity to create it P3 God could have created singularity. P4 If god created all the energy in singularity, then he used no energy to do it C1 If god created singularity, and singularity was the genesis of matter/energy, then matter and energy have a definite beginning P4 No time passes within singularity P5 At the moment of the big bang, all the matter/energy from the black hole was released. P6 The matter/energy is no longer in the black hole P7 Time was not passing in the black hole before the big bang P8 Time is passing currently after the big bang C2 Time has a definite beginning as well I had fun debating.