Worshiping God

I apologize for having to forfeit the last round, it may have been a bad idea to start this debate right before finals week; however, my reply is as follows: You said: "He has no obligation to us to eliminate all our sufferings. He does not have to deal with all our problems for us. We should still worship him for creating us in this case. " But he is the one who created us and is therefore not only responsible for our well being but is also responsible for cleaning up the crap he created. He made us imperfect, he made nature, he made pain, he made evil, he made all; therefore it is his responsibility to make sure that these things are used justly. With his apparent unwillingness to do this I must say that is not logical to worship such a being. "Why would God then have any reason to be happy about our good works? If everyone's automatically good by nature, there's nothing remarkable about a good person. Good is only remarkable when put in contrast with evil. And a world of good would probably be boring for God to watch, and he should not place our insignificant interests above his own. " A perfect being needs entertainment and happiness, really? Is that the argument you're going with? I would think that the alpha and omega wouldn't need anything. Do you not see the illogical nature of this argument? "This isn't to say he doesn't love us. The sacrifices he would be making [he, an infinite being, would be less happy] FAR outweigh the insignificant troubles of the human race. Just because you love someone doesn't mean you take any and all sacrifices to help that person. For instance, if taking a bullet in the leg would help my mother save 1$ a month, I would not do it. My leg is more important than her 1$ a month. Just as God's happiness is more important than reducing our suffering. " Same question as the last part, but this time consider that God created everything. I don't think it would very hard for him to fix our issues, he is supposedly omnipotent. "My opponenet suggests that he could not worship our creator, simply because our creator won't do whatever it takes to eliminate all human suffering in the world. This is a ridiculous expectation my opponent places on God. " He made this mess, it's not a ridiculous expectation, what is ridiculous is that he has made such a mess and not felt the need to fix it. "The unlucky can remain unlucky - it is not God's burden to bear to make sure everyone sees justice. He created us! And we're ungrateful because some of our lives aren't quite as good as they could be? At least we have lives. " Again he made our lives crappy, the blame falls on his shoulders, it's not ungrateful it's demanding justice. So what he created us? I could make a kid but if I damn him to a life of squalor and pain then I am guilty of neglect. God not only created us but also the things that force us into such situations. He is even more responsible and as of yet has not even tried to fix his mistakes. "My opponent knew this, and that's why he used such grim examples, cleverly omitting the bad details to make it seem that the analogy fits with God too. However, my opponent has shown no injustice done to man by God. Even if there was injustice done, it would be very difficult for this to outweigh the good of CREATING us. " Incorrect I didn't add the bad details because I figured it was unnecessary to do so. I am making an analogy to God because he has caused the death, the suffering, the poverty, the wars, the diseases, the horror of this world. He is the worlds biggest terrorist. My analogy stands, take it or leave it. "It comes down to this: We should worship God because he created us. This is the most beneficial thing anything has ever done for us, or ever will. If anything merits worship, it's this. " Some peoples lives are good but I would say that the majority of lives are not. The more accurate question is, "Is it better to live in suffering and pain and misery or to be dead forever? " I'd choose death. "However, most of what happens on Earth is due to natural laws, and therefore not based on explicit decisions by God. God's not thinking "Hmm, should I ruin some village with a Tsunami today? " IT JUST HAPPENS SOMETIMES. " It happens because of God's natural laws and he could easily stop them; however he doesn't. He seems to either be ignoring our plight or having fun watching us suffer, either way that is not someone who I would like to be my friend. He has the power to do anything while we suffer. He created the situations and events that cause our suffering, it is his duty to fix our ills, as they were caused by him. "It's very rational to think that God would help those who worship him, at least in the afterlife. Why? Because any intelligence we DO understand would act that way, so why would we expect the opposite from God? " On this earth he shows no justice, why should we expect it to be any different in the afterlife? "So let's say there's an extremely generous 90% chance that God won't help us if we worship him. That makes a 10% chance that he will. Since God not helping us isn't a loss, and God helping us is a gain, the average value is still a gain. Therefore, we should indeed expect it to help us if we worship God, and thus we should worship him for this reason as well. " Refer to last question and why should we worship the cause of our pain? Conclusion: It is illogical to believe in a being that created evil and all the ills of the world. I respect the power but I loath the use of it. God can do anything and as history clearly shows he has damned us to a life of pain and squalor and has done nothing to stop it. He has a responsibility to us not only because we are his creation but also because he created the messes we are in, it is his mess to clean and in not doing so he loses all credibility as a loving being.