Four Point Calvinism

Bold and italics are quotes from you. Let's be clear there was no sin in humans, as far as we can tell in scripture in perfect god and man were in perfect coexistence with god. If man was originally good and Jesus says God alone is good; why did Adam and Eve fall into sin? We have three options: 1. God failed at making Adam and Eve perfect and good. Problem 1: they were not actually good since they were in direct disobedience to God’s singular law. Problem 2: Jesus said, “No one is good but One--God” (Luke 18:19) so if Adam and Eve who were sinless, chose to sin, how can we who are not good, ever stay away from sin? 2. God failed to foresee the events taking place, and somehow Adam and Eve’s freewill was not a possible breach of goodness, but it still broke God’s law. Problem 1: this is self-contradictory. Problem 2: even I can leave my son alone with a cookie I told him not to eat, and I know he’ll eat it. How much more will God know that we are sinful. 3. Adam and Eve were good, only because God was present. When God left the garden, Adam and Eve went to sin for fulfillment. So, the only reason Adam and Eve were good, was because God Himself is good, and when God makes things good, for them to remain good, is necessary for them to be in constant need of Him. Surely if God was standing there with them, they wouldn’t have sinned. Yet, God in His foreknowledge knew that this was a necessary step in His pre-determined will. To show that man is sinful apart from Him and that He is the only good in us. If we are purely evil what is there for god to love in us? “The boastful cannot stand in Your presence; You hate all evildoers.” (Psalm 5.5) For, everyone is a doer of evil. Everyone has made an idol in their life, everyone has lied at some point, nearly everyone has lusted committing adultery in their heart, nearly everyone has blasphemed, and nearly everyone has hated someone at some point making them murderers of heart. So, if all evildoers (which is me and you) who God hated, He chose to die for us when we were doing detestable things toward Him. He died for us while we were mocking Him, punishing Him with our sin. Jesus took all that He hated, to love those who do not deserve love. Thereby, demonstrating the perfect love of God. Jesus said that no one is good but God alone, so yes, the only Good in us is God (Luke 18.19), the only love in us is God (1 John 4.10,19), and the only righteousness in us is God (Isaiah 64.6). God loves us not on our own merit (Otherwise it would no longer be grace, or a gift), but out of demonstration of His perfection, His holiness, and His love. "Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)," - Ephesians 2:3-5 If man is inherently sinful was Jesus not a man or was he sinful? How can we be completely depraved and still maintain the image of god? Man chooses sin when separated from God. So, then man’s salvation is determined on God’s presence rather than his inherent nature. Which concludes with man’s salvation being determined by where God lays His presence (The Holy Spirit). Jesus had the Spirit of God from birth. “This is My Servant; I strengthen Him, this is My Chosen One; I delight in Him. I have put My Spirit on Him.” (Isaiah 42.1) Is it fair to punish a person for something they have no control over? “Everyone called by My name and created for My glory. I have formed him; indeed, I have made him. Bring out a people who are blind, yet have eyes. and are deaf, yet have ears.” (Isaiah 42.7-8) “It is I who sweep away your transgressions for My own sake and remember your sins no more.” (Isaiah 42.25) “There is no one who calls on Your name, Who arouses himself to take hold of You; For You have hidden Your face from us And have delivered us into the power of our iniquities. But now, O LORD, You are our Father, We are the clay, and You our potter; And all of us are the work of Your hand.” (Isaiah 64.7-8) 1. God affirms that He has hidden Himself from Israel and made Himself known to those who did not seek Him. (Isaiah 45.14; 65.1) 2. When the Apostle Paul quotes this, he says “So then it does not depend on human will or effort but on God who shows mercy. For the Scripture tells Pharaoh: I raised you up for this reason so that I may display My power in you and that My name may be proclaimed in all the earth. So then, He shows mercy to those He wants to, and He hardens those He wants to harden. You will say to me, therefore, “Why then does He still find fault? For who can resist His will?” But who are you, a mere man, to talk back to God? Will what is formed say to the one who formed it, “Why did you make me like this?” Or has the potter no right over the clay, to make from the same lump one piece of pottery for honor and another for dishonor? " (Romans 9.16-21) 3. “In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, would be for the praise of His glory.” (Ephesians 1.11-12) So, then God has chosen us, saves us according to His plan, by His will, and for His glory. 4.“we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose.” (Romans 8.28) If I left my son in a room alone with a bunch of cookies I told him not to eat and he eats them even though I knew he would, am I the unjust one? Or is it him who did the wickedness? Should I not punish him for his disobedience so that he learns not to do that in the future? On the other hand, if I refuse to punish him even though I put him in an instance of sin, doesn’t that encourage him to sin even more? That there are no consequences for his actions? I can predict my sons sins long before they are ever committed. If he made the decision why should he not bear the consequences? Is that a good god? Is that justice? really ask yourself is that Justice? You do not define good and you do not define justice. God does. o “What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.” (Job 2.10) o “You planned evil against me; God planned it for good to bring about the present resultR39;—R39;the survival of many people.” (Genesis 50.20) o “I will heap evils on them. I will spend my arrows on them.” (Deuteronomy 32.23) o “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” (Isaiah 45.7) o “In their case, the god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.” (2 Corinthians 4.4) This is typically interpreted as the “god of this age” being the devil. Regardless though, God has allowed him to blind unbelievers so that they cannot see the Gospel of Christ. For, God to not be sovereign over evil, would mean for evil to be sovereign over God. All evil is under the sovereign control of God. Sometimes God bends evil to happen for good to come out of it, and sometimes God uses evil things to judge those who are evil. What appears evil to us, God can use for good. His ways are higher than ours. (Isaiah 55.9) Just because something is distasteful does not mean it’s not true. Would a god that truly loves us allow this to happen to that which he calls his own? Using your reasoning, why would God even place the tree in the garden so that we may sin? If that is the way things are would not a god of love save everyone? Why would he risk a single soul? Are you saying God is limited in power to save everyone? Because regardless to whether you believe in predestination, you have to believe God did not intend on saving everyone. God would be perfectly just to save nobody. Because nobody deserves God’s grace, yet He provided atonement for everyone, thereby demonstrating love for everyone, just those who are in their natural selves cannot receive salvation without the help of the Holy Spirit. Because he hasn't we must assume his plan is that so many people go to hell and if that's the case is this a god of love or suffering? The Apostle Paul says “what if God, desiring to display His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience objects of wrath ready for destruction? And what if He did this to make known the riches of His glory on objects of mercy that He prepared beforehand for glory— on us, the ones He also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?” (Romans 9.22-25) How can we trust a god that just as easily saved you sends your neighbor to hell with no chance for them at all? Are you saying God would no longer be trustworthy if He elected whom He desires to save? You have to realize nobody deserves heaven. Everybody deserves hell. But, by God’s grace He chose to give salvation to some. So is God being unfair? By no means, God is entitled to give grace to whom He wants to give grace. If I give money to one poor man am I unjust for not giving to all the other poor men? No, rather it was a gracious thing for me to do, but those who are envious in their heart will call what I did which is good, they call it evil, because of the evil in their hearts. God debated with Abraham and Moses and in some cases changed his original course. “God is not a man who lies, or a son of man who changes His mind. Does He speak and not act, or promise and not fulfill?” (Numbers 23.19) “Also the Glory of Israel will not lie or change His mind; for He is not a man that He should change His mind." (Samuel 15.29) If God does not change His mind, then God foreknew what Moses response would be so that He could demonstrate grace when asked to.