All Humans Have Faith In Something (Atheists, Theists and Everyone Else)

I accept your definitions. I will assume your use of the word 'greater power' is an issue of semantics rather than an attempt to change the intention of the debate. Firstly, what is faith? As you have defined it, faith is belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. So you would claim that believing in God is faith because there is no empirical evidence for his existence. My claim isn't that Atheists believe in some all-powerful creator, but that they have to have faith to even start their world view. For example, let's take one of the most common arguments between Christians, a type of Theist, and Atheists: Origin of everything: (What or who created the universe?) Christians say: God. Who created God? No one, he was always there. (We've arrived at an axiom that is consistent with the Munchhausen theory of axiomatic reasoning.) God was always there? But there's no tangible proof, there's no empirical evidence so it is a belief based in faith. Atheists say: "The most commonly held view is that the universe was once a gravitational singularity, which expanded extremely rapidly from its hot and dense state." Where did the gravitational singularity come from? "While this expansion is well-modeled by the Big Bang theory, the origins of the singularity remains one of the unsolved problems in physics." No proof for the origin of the gravitational singularity? No evidence for the causation of energy dispersal? Once again: a belief based in faith. (http://en.wikipedia.org...) So essentially, at its core, Christians have faith that a God exists, Muslims believe Allah exists and caused the creation of Earth, Atheists believe that gravitational singularity existed. Or some believe the universe always existed or there are other theories, but the one thing they all have in common is that something or some force or some material existed (Some theories even state that larger universes existed) but they cannot even hypothesize how. And even if they do hypothesize, there is no tangible proof or evidence suggesting how this is possible. God as an unexplainable force is a theory in the same way that 0+0=Universe is a theory. Both are based in faith in some greater truth. Both are based in the belief that something existed prior to matter or prior to the universe or that something has always existed (Which goes against natural law.) (Ie. Richard Dawkins presupposes gravity.) The Munchhausen Trilemma The second point I want to make is that, at the end of the day, we all revert to faith in reasoning. "The Munchhausen Trilemma is a philosophical term coined to stress the purported impossibility to prove any truth even in the fields of logic and mathematics." (http://en.wikipedia.org...) (Here is the Trilemma as explained on wikipedia:) If we ask of any knowledge: "How do I know that it's true?", we may provide proof; yet that same question can be asked of the proof, and any subsequent proof. The Münchhausen Trilemma is that we have only three options when providing proof in this situation: The circular argument, in which theory and proof support each other (i.e. we repeat ourselves at some point) The regressive argument, in which each proof requires a further proof, ad infinitum (i.e. we just keep giving proofs, presumably forever) The axiomatic argument, which rests on accepted precepts (i.e. we reach some bedrock assumption or certainty) The first two forms of argument were discounted by Greek Thinkers as weak. Let's address the strongest form: the third. So think of a child always asking 'why.' In the end people answer 'because I say so,' or 'that's just the way it is,' or "it's life." Try that with any claim of truth. Just continue to ask the question 'why.' In the end you'll find that you cannot prove anything. All comes down to some presupposition or core belief. All comes down to a faith-based greater truth that has no logical proof nor reasonable explanation. It just is. These principles apply to Atheists and Christians. Buddhists and Muslims. They are principles of logic and common thought, not religion. So in the end, having faith isn't a spiritual conundrum. It is a human one. Practical examples of other things Atheists have faith in: If God exists, you will see evidence of his existence. We do not see evidence of his existence, therefore he does not exist. (Presupposition is the first sentence.) Logic reveals truth. (Faith that there is 'truth' faith that logic is the right way to determine truth. Faith in truth and logic.) (If you pressupose their isn't truth, then your faith is in the statement 'there isn't truth.'