Jacobgunter started what I thought would be a great debate topic... Lets go from where he left off-

Hey jacobgunter, No worries, I like stepping out of my comfort zone and hitting the debates I usually wouldn't. NCLB is a great theory of what a program could be... I'm glad to have somebody savvy who isn't a complete dunce. Make sure to see my debate on entitlements if you want an example of bad ideas, or the one on Barrack Obama... Anyways enough of me ranting on ways and means, to the issues! I think the Federal Government should have a firm grip on NCLB. It must choke hold the states, and make sure they act uniformly to have SOME policy. However, punishing a state (Utah) for just not using NCLB is Republican hogwash, thats not the kind of choke holding I meant. As I understand it (and you have stated it) Utah created their own program and did well... They should make the states use NCLB unless they come up with an idea that proves to be more successful in small areas first then state wide later. You said- "You discussed that you wouldn't fire a worker who shows potential but not any immediate effect. However, if you see the potential in the part/job that he is in, then you should wait. This argument is easily turned to my case because it shows how the potential of an individual entity can sometimes be worth the long-term investment. You would never have a policy as a business worker where you keep every employee until they prove their worth, but instead base it on an individual level of the worker. Now cross-apply that logic to the federal (boss) and state (worker) level education standards." I stand by my original statement. I don't believe that my view turns to work for you as you stated, and I don't think anyone reading this will think that either. As a Property Manager and as a member of the Navy, I do in fact have that policy of not leaving employees to hang. If I see someone is struggling, I don't give them three chances and then just cut them loose. I make sure they understand the policies, and procedures. As a matter of fact I hardly ever fire anyone except those with gross insubordination. My staff is remarkable because I nurture them, and teach them how to do things better. That is what no child left behind is supposed to be. You can do that with any program. If my company Vice President came and employed my management skills all the way across the board to everyone in the company, i'm sure it wouldn't work everywhere... But it would be a start and it would be organized. Maybe another office would have a better solution, we could employ their ideas too. That is the idea for NCLB. Everyone congregates to help each other. The program isn't perfect, but its a good theory and worthy of fighting for in my opinion. But the Bush Administraion listens to nobody, and does nothing it should. As a student in Florida I have to scoff at your "Jeb Bush" plan. He is the worst thing that ever happened to public education. You can site edreform.com all you want, but I lived it, and his program sucks. Here is why... I was left behind. (No kidding, I was.) Somehow in math I found myself studying explorations in math while others my age were into geometry. Maybe it was that girls were on my mind, or maybe it was I didn't eat the proper amount of peanut butter in the mornings, butI was never given the tools to succeed, never helped, and I failed the FCAT (Florida's standardized testing method,- you have to pass it to graduate.) 6 times. It was a joke. So I left Florida (not for that reason) and went to Ohio and got myself a tutor at school. (Florida public schools seldom have programs like that.) I passed the Ohio Proficiency math test with a 96% and shortly after I had an IQ test done, and I tested high. Then I took my ASVAB test and got a 92 and joined the Navy. So why is it that I couldn't do well in Florida? Because I was left behind. Jeb Bush had no idea what he was doing, and that is why his school systems showed improvement, but had the highest dropouts in the nation. (NY TIMES) Some of the smartest people I knew fell victim to the standardized testing he created. They would tell us to study one thing, and the test would be completely different. If I had stayed in Florida's educational penal system, I wouldn't have graduated, and wouldn't be the man I am today. No Navy, no Property Management. No success, and no help. I had to get it on my own, with help from Governor Stricklands Ohio education program. As for it being unconstitutional, I disagree. I think it is within the Governments rights to force education on an ignorant society.