Determinism: Free will is an illusion

To first reiterate, we are controlling all aspects of the self, just not consciously. ANything inside you is the self. You may not be realize it but you are telling yourself "be hungry, breathe, pump blood", via the natural systems in your brain for the good of the body. Its just developed to a point where it is redundant and automatic, thus you do not need to be direct control over it. The body is elegant and complex enough where it can take some matters in its own hands, yes, but it is still never the less, irrevocably you. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. Meaning that even if you don't know it, its still happening, and your still doing it to yourself. I disagree with your assumption that I gave up on this point because of a "determinism realization" I merely feel that I did not present my point well enough. I conclude the point by saying that one previous action is not sufficient evidence that all man's fate is set out before him. It is not illogical for anything to base its actions by a previous one, but saying that this trait forfeits a being having its own will is. I will not provide extra evidence as this is the last round. The bathroom argument does not need warrant as it is pure common sense and knowledge. Also, the last example was about eating, but I digress. If a mans urinary needs where strictly controlled by the subconscious than we would just go anytime we feel the need to relive ourselves, however, we have the ability to "hold it in". Anyone who's been on a road trip knows this. We wait until there is a suitable opportunity, not for our bladders, but for our pride. The body's best interest would be to evacuate the waste, but our conscious selves deny our body and purposefully bring pain to ourselves. I believe this sounds like a conscious choice, no? Our subconscious, as I explained before, works in the body's interests, not so much the mind. While there are many aspects we cannot control, simply because we need not to, we can make choices, most apparently in our bad ones. But as I said before, it is still us making that choice, consciously or not. My final claim, is not constricted by what we know. The nature of language and logic means that everything is true or false correct? I do not say this is wrong, but merely nothing can be true or false until it has actually happened. It is also not restricted by what we know, it applies to the whole universe. An animal has died in the woods. No human will ever know about it, never the less, it is still true that it is dead. Prior to its death, however, there was the possibility, no matter how slim, that this beast would never die. It could theoretically live forever. When the animal was alive, it was true that it was alive, and false that it was dead. It could continue to be that way, as nothing can be certain in this creatures life until it has happened. It could vanish and never be heard from again anywhere in the universe, just like that. It could go walking on forever. Or die. In this case, it did die. Now it is true that it is dead, and false that it is alive. Until it has finally died, it cannot be said that it will die, even if all usual methods of reason, like the observation of a disease or old age, are taken into consideration. Thus, I am not saying that the "nature of language and logic" theory is incorrect, quite the contrary, but nothing can be true until it actually is. Free will is not an illusion, and it is not a fact. Neither is it truth or lie. AT the moment, it is a theory, a belief. As I said in the first round, until we find a definite means to discover both the future and past, nothing is certain. However, I believe I've given sufficient evidence to point out that free will is highly likely to be true at the moment. But anything is possible. Thank you Los_Altos_JW for this debate, it was a pleasure. I wish I could have been more a person to you, but it takes different strokes to rule the world. To the audience: I hope that you will not vote in accordance to your own personal belief, but to the better argument, be it mine or Mr. Altos. Darth_Grievous_42 out.