LM Classic: Logical-Master vs ToastofDestiny

I'll respond to each point and then add clear section at the end explaining why I've won. I trust that my opponent shall present no new arguments or evidence since I'd have no means of responding. ============= RE: Haru's speed | ============= My opponent cites Haru glory's speed in where he demonstrates himself to be quick enough to evade automatic gunfire. However, my fair judges, this demonstration of speed is by no means impressive when considering that even Batman and Spider-Man casually move this quickly on a regular basis. And they are both by far the potentially slowest members of my time. ==== Sora | ==== 1) @ "Hercules not been punching Sora with full strength on the basis that Sora would have been sent flying a few hundred yards at bare minimum": As interesting as a theory that is, I'm afraid it couldn't be any further from the truth. If you attack someone with physical prowess similar to your own and their guard is up, they are not going to topple over even be sent flying http://www.debate.org... as my opponent phrases it. Sora has fought man adversaries with super strength. Many who are unintelligible monsters and would have absolutely no means of rationalizing the notion that they can hold back. For proof, watch both vids on the right. http://www.youtube.com... 2) @ "Sora being player controlled." This battle occurs during the actual story. Sora winning is also part of the story. That, and writers control characters in the same fashion as there are different ways to write characters. Ergo, moot argument. 3) @ "Sora is taken out of the equation since he is just evading Jean." Strawman fallacy. I said that Sora could simply move fast enough to avoid Jean's detection. This does not insure that he evades Jean. CON has acknowledged that Jean cannot track him if he moves fast enough, thus it doesn't matter how close he gets to Jean. It is his speed which is keeping her from processing him in his mind. ======== FTL Travel | ======== I'm arguing just what CON says, thus this should be taken as a concession on his part. @ "Blind spots": Even if this is true (which it isn't or else Sora wouldn't be able to deflect lasers all around him, meaning he is above what we deem physical laws), it makes no difference as no one on CON's team is fast enough to tag FTL speed anyway. =========== Battle Strategy | =========== SECTION A) @ "Jean just as easily crush my characters insides." Rather than argue this point, I'll simply agree (due to space) to this being so assuming she was able to tag Spider-Man before Revan or Amazo killed her. As for Batman though, I showed evidence that his will power saved him, not his exoskeleton. As for Sora, his speed would keep him safe. @ "Superman punched Batman's sternum" Um, Superman was ordered via mind control to KILL Batman (if you check the source I provided, you'll find it to be rather reliable). The extra force my opponent is talking about is exactly the kind of force he would have used to carry out the command. After all, it was an order to KILL. This is not an issue @ SECTION B) 1) Force sight doesn't home in on all life forms. As insisted, that's force sense. The more powerful one's force energy, the more widespread this can be done. If either of you judges have ever watched DBZ, it's similar to how the Z warriors would "sense" others without a scouter ( it can also augment normal senses). My argument is using this in conjunction with force sight for Amazo to duplicate the powers of CON's entire team. Merely pinpointing Jean's location would be done with force sense. 2) Example is irrelevant since that's 2 objects moving in the same direction at similar speeds. The vid is different. Second, my initial source cites the game's expansion on the properties of force speed at the very bottom of the page. " the game around the player slows down while that of the player remains normal, signifying that the ability did not only augment his speed, but it altered the Jedi's perception of time." 3) The ship was attempting to move away Doesn't explain relevance. Fiction displays lightpspeed movement all the time. Watch Superman, DBZ, Justice League, Star Trek, etc. 4) Force (life within all universe) > mer psychic powers. C) 6) It's been agreed that Sora is too fast for Jean. Amazo would have Revan's power's too, so that's not happening. At best, she could do this to Spider-Man, but as you shall see with a few alterations, I don't necessarily need Spider-man or even Batman to win this fight. :D 7) Doesn't matter if tries to serve as an annoyance. Brit cannot cover every area of Jean's body. 8) Based on the link CON provided, even if someone is hit by million sun, the effects last for a few seconds at best (note how Musica's eyes are wide open on the next page). Furthermore, it doesn't cove that much territory. Say Haru uses it at the start of the battle. Sora knows their exact location (of course, he already would know with Revan or Amazo's help), speed blitzes Haru . 9) Sora knows magic, thus could attack without coming in direct contact with Jean (firaga, etc). And CON concedes that none of his pages demonstrate his point 10) Notice each instance and notice how the wielders of this technique need to be in direct or semi direct contact in order to pull this off. Also, I'm seeing nothing about being able to seal off ALL magic or else Luca would have made Haru's sword completely useless during their battle. Yet you'll note that Haru pulls off "Million suns' just fine a page later. Evasion is all that is necessary. 11) Haru's million sun's doesn't seem to be capable of eternal use. Amazo, possessing precognition both via Revan's force powers and spider-man's spider sense, knows when to expect the technique, covers his head and then proceeds with the plan. 12) If Haru happenen to fight Sora in a sword duel, Sora (being faster than Haru) could even blitz him or cast stopga (makng time completely stop for Haru temporarily) and kill him with one blow. As for Amazo, that combined with the fact that he has precog to anticipate "Million Suns" 13) With precognition and FTL speed, he'll know when to expect a super powered crotch kick, avoid it and can provide one of his own to whoever this weakness applies to. 14) With the strategy I've already outlined, they'd never get the opportunity. 15) Nope. Rules say skyscrapers are indestructible. Thus, even if Runesaves supposedly have that power, this city would be their limitation. 16) CON has failed to provide you with reason that Haru and Northstar could track down Sora, much less even move faster than the speed of light. CLOSING STATEMENTS: 1) Most of my opponent's case consisted of whether or not Jean Grey would be successful in the initial phase of the battle. However, the clear weakness in CON's contributions is that he never actually demonstrates how Jean would manage to find and kill Revan (or anyone else on team PRO) faster than Revan or even Amazo would kill Jean. EVEN if you were to somehow dismiss my arguments on speed, the fact of the matter is that I have 2 characters with same power trying to kill Jean. EVEN on the unlikely chance Jean were capable of bypassing Revan's own telepathic via force defenses, Amazo could kill her while she was attempting to subdue Revan or vice versa. 2) Another large problem boils down to team CON's vastly inferior speed in comparison to Sora. CON dropped all of his arguments which suggest otherwise, hence making Sora virtually untouchable by the likes of team CON. He can blitz any one of Team CON's players and subdue Bric himself if it came down to it. 3) The kamikaze tactic is worthless as my key players (in this debate are all) well capable of circumventing it and it's not like Batman's boomtube couldn't be used by someone else