The Jesus Myth Debate

I didn't actually think you would respond in such a polite and calm manner after the barrage of rude ranting that sort of spill out.. I'm sure you can see my writing style reflects this and I do appreciate you sticking with me... My personal issue with Christianity has been known to produce some very "offensive" arguments... so your endurance is commendable! I will let you into a little bit of personal information to help you understand my reasons for blowing off steam on this website. I am getting married in about 10 days and even though neither of us believe in the Bible, we decided to get a pastor to marry us out of respect for our Christian families. We were reading the outline that he presented for us to let us know what he would say at the altar. It was passages in the bible about the hierarchy between a man and a women as represented by Adam and Even (we are most certainly equal partners) It then went on about how Jesus was necessary for a marriage to be successful, even though he knows that we are not believers! My fianc" called him because she was not happy at all and asked him to change it.. then he gave her the impression that we shouldn't have come to him unless we were willing to bend to his "pastoral duties".. meaning he should have told us this at the beginning when he knew very well we were not Christians. Now we are just pandering so we don't upset anyone.. I wanted this day to be about her.. not some random guys arrogance!! Basically I felt disrespected and sadness for my woman! Anyways.... As you can tell I am treating this as a discussion and not a Debate.. I apologize if I led you to believe otherwise! I was trying to explain it by adding that "supernatural events" Are simply Natural Events that have not been explained yet! I will be Honest I see no need for formalities at this point. your desire for "evidence" is resting on the idea that I accept the Bible as Evidence.. Clearly I do not and could never actually debate Christianity unless I entertain the notion of the Bible being anything other than a collection of beautiful Literature. I thought since I had you hooked we could actually discuss this instead of pandering to the "debate police" we might actually talk about this and maybe even learn from it! 1 So why create something that is "predestined" for eternal suffering? Why create suffering to begin with? Why does an "All Powerful" Being need such a convoluted and revolting system? "Life for a life" is a terrible ransom from something that could be guided or "fixed" at any moment by the "creator"! Again something that is described as "all powerful" and "Loving Father" simply does not fit with this intricate web of unnecessary ritual! The fact remains that this is purely conjecture. From my perspective you are actually creating a quasi-reality that best suits your.. umm "personality"? (I didn't want to say Ego!) We all are for that matter.. Muslims have their (grim) "reality" and Well... I'm sure your familiar with other beliefs. I look at every thought in my head as a collection of information (consciousness maybe?) I don't exactly feel responsible for it.. it is just there... I believe it is this exact source that actually creates our "individuality" as we are merely limited to the consciousness that has been.. umm provided (I'm not going to pretend to know where it comes from) and our minds are designed to take this information and manifest it into our natural world. No where in my manifestation has innocent people being damned by a bully deity. We see them all the time in Greek/roman and Norse mythology as well as hundreds of others. I believe this description of a "has you by the grapes" kind of god comes from the callous and inhumane nature of the environment. Naturally if you believe in God and your family dies of the plague you might assume that God did it for his divine plan or something like that! Everything here adds up to a coping mechanism.. you know the 5 stages of death? I think religion is great for helping you justify the horrible things that happen.. but I'm willing to bet the reality of it is not as forgiving as your ability to manipulate it in your own special reality! I have never in my life though that God doesn't exist.. I only argue the "Nature" of this..umm "being"? sorry to dance around these concepts are elusive! I was pointing out that the differences in people that make them wonderful.. are simply misunderstandings because we do not share the same quasi-reality. In your reality these differences can be the catalyst for eternal suffering.. So from my perspective.. you are actually using "free will" to choose a reality where people that you respect and love will know nothing but torment.. and not even as a lesson, as I said Hell is not productive, it does not strengthen or provide relief.. that is not exactly what I want in my little bubble! 2. Instinct and morality is a part of our genetic memory and new moralities are nurtured by the environment they live in. Morality is a tricky concept because you need a basis for some moralities and in other realities moralities do not even exist at all outside of our own individuality. Meaning something that could seem moral to you might seem wrong to them! Its the same when someone asks me "doesn't the idea of just dying and becoming worm food scare me. I say , not as much as the reality presented in the bible. Of course I'm scared.. we all are.. but " 1 Corinthians 13:11 . What I take from that is I'm old enough not to need bedtime stories to help me sleep at night. The callous reality of becoming one with the planet is a more elegant way to put it than you meet grandma in a day spa! Anyways I thought my Saddam Hussein and the mice with the electric pellet analogy was pretty convincing! We evolved with a unique ability that gives us insight into the human condition..Donkeys do not care about the Donkey condition (I don't think) Also if we are made in Gods image as sinful creatures.. doesn't that make God a sinful creature? People killing other people can be Darwinian impulses that are a part of natural selection.. the bi-product of living in a post Darwinian era! 3. O.K. now we are getting into circular reasoning and adhoc speculation. You can see why every possible belief can be justified through this process. You cannot prove that God is not everything... so I must be right (Pantheism)! You cannot prove that Vampires don't exist.. so fear the night! I did not mean to make that rhyme :) I trust you understand that Occam's Razor means "simple answer"... That crushes the convoluted concepts of most of the events in the bible! The ridiculous and grotesque rituals are from the sadistic minds of man.. very simple.. no need to throw in some complicated mess about pandering to a deity that may or may not exist.. I stand firm that the entire process of God telling people to sacrifice animals is a sadistic delusion. Possibly just to justify their blood lust! I do realize that my beliefs and opinions are merely speculation, I have no illusions about that. I invite you to consider, I have in fact reached my answers through intelligent independent thought that I recommend for anyone to try. Don't just accept these concepts as wrong or right.. think how did I arrive at such a conclusion? There must be some reason why I'm just as secure in my beliefs as you are! Although my beliefs are adaptable.. I truly am looking for "The Answer" What I have discovered is that you will find it over and over again without realizing. The answer is too simple to satisfy our creative minds.. so we make crap up. Think about what is truly necessary in life (eat,drink, poop, sleep, procreate, socialize, be entertained) I really can't think of a whole lot else we should be doing here. But I have got ALOT of people telling me that I should be just like them.. You are telling me that if I am like you I won't go to hell.. I'm saying that if you are like me there is no Hell!