That Democratic Socialism is a good System

The Pro has stated that he would implement a system of one worker, one vote in companies. There are several issues with this, but first I will address the issues that he has with my stating that it is unfair to take companies from entrepreneurs and visionaries. He begins by stating that my belief is, 'that the power which business owner have over their workers is justified solely by the fact that they started the business'. And he would be absolutely right to say so. He also states that, 'power is derived from the consent of the governed' and this is also true. When workers sign up to a job, they become the governed, and they have consented to be so by signing a contract. The power that owners gain is justified by the fact that the started the business, because in many cases they provide hundreds of jobs to the communities in which they reside. The workers owe a debt of gratitude to the owner for providing them with a job. Governments are also in debt to businesses, as they employ billions of people accross the world, and keep the economy afloat. The pro states that, "social ownership is not taking a business form the person or persons who started that business, it is simply expanding the ownership of that company". This makes absolutely no sense. Let us imagine that someone has set up a company, and owns 100% of the stock. To 'expand the ownership' can only involve taking stock from them, leaving them with a lower proportion of the stock than what they started with. It's like having $100. If I want some of it, I have to either take some of the money, leaving the initial owner with less, or I make more money, which devalues the money that you have, and leaves you with less money. This is what 'expanding the ownership is' and it is indeed the 'taking' of money from business owners. The claim that nobody would start a business under democratic socialism is not illogical. People start businesses to make money, and an empty market space is a way for them to do so. People don't start businesses with the intent to fill a market gap, and money is merely a convenient side effect. People go out to make money, and if a need is not being met, then they will meet it to make money. However, under socialism, there will be no money to be made, as they will have to forgo their profits and stocks to the workers, which gives them no incentive to start a company. Ask any businessperson why they started a business, and the answer the majority of them will give, is to make money, not to fill a market hole. The market gap is merely the means to make money, which is the goal. The Pro brings up several examples of where the steel and energy industries have been nationalised. We can disregard the UK, as the industries were privatised once more as they were not working. Let us look at the examples that the Pro has given: India, Mexico, Venezuela, Argentina, Bolivia, Ecuador, Brazil and Norway. In India, 21.2% of the population are under the poverty line, and it has a BBB- credit rating, in Mexico, 44.8% of the population are under the poverty line and it too has a BBB- rating. Venezuela has the highest inflation in the world, at 100% in 2015, expected to reach 650% by the end of 2016 and hit 1800% in 2017. Remember that Venezuela was the country which underwent the 'Socialist' movement that you propose early this century. Its debt forms 51.4% of its GDP, and over 80% of its population are below the poverty line. The GDP has shrunk by 5.4%, and has a CCC rating, so we can see what happens when a socialist government takes control of a country. The Argentinian economy has an inflation rate of 39.1%, and 28.9% of its population live below the poverty line. Inflation has smashed the Bolivian economy since the 1970s, and the nationalisation of their energy industry has not helped. Ecuador has undergone multiple coups and upheavals over the last few decades, and it hardly paints the socialist movement in a glowing light. Brazil is currently undergoing a recession that it has been under since 2014. Norway is the exception on your list of a successful economy, and that is because of its proximity to other European trading partners who are doing incredibly well under a capitalist economy. The Pro states that energy companies under state ownership would not be concerned about maximising profits, and transition to renewables. He cites the example of Germany. Well, guess what countries with state owned energy companies haven't transitioned to renewables? India, Mexico, Venezuela, Argentina, Bolivia, Ecuador, Brazil and Norway. And even with non renewable focused companies, they are still barely keeping their heads above the water. The transition to renewables has occurred in Europe because of generous incentives for companies to transition to renewables (which I support), as well as there being a lack of space in Europe for land consuming mines and production plants. In response to the question of Equal opportunity v equal outcome, the Pro has effectively stated that he will accept equality of outcome until such a time as we can guarantee equality of opportunity. I will leave this issue, as I agree that it is a complex issue that is better served by its own debate. The Pro has stated that the Princeton study says that even if nearly every single American was against something, it wouldn't have any impact on that policy being passed if it was supported by the wealthy and corporate interests. This is totally untrue, because the politicians do actually want to be elected again! Politicians only support something if a proportion of the population, by no means a majority, supports the proposal, and they can sway another proportion of the population with its success. Politicians aren't silly and illogical, they do have lots to gain out of public popularity. Indeed the corporate interest wish to make a profit, but what is good for the corporations is ultimately good for its workers. More profits mean expansion of the business, and expansion of the business means more jobs, and more growth in the regional community. The Pro states that he does not advocate the state control of the economy, however that is precisely what socialism is. I have provided a definition below in case he has forgotten what his own ideology actually means. http://www.merriam-webster.com... In the Pro's final paragraph, he states that I went out of my way to ask for clarification on the equality issue, and then discussed it. In the paragraph where the Pro rejects my asking on what side of equality he stands, stating that it is a complex philosophical issue he would rather engage in. He then proceeds to spend several sentences discussing it, which is a complete contradiction of his initial statement in the first sentence. https://www.cia.gov... https://en.m.wikipedia.org... https://en.m.wikipedia.org... http://www.heritage.org... http://www.economist.com... http://www.focus-economics.com... http://www.focus-economics.com...