Pressuring noobs vs Pressuring experienced players in mafia games.

Thanks Danielle. I will start by defending my original arguments and then refuting Con's points.DEFENCEC1) Scumtells vs Noob mistakesMy contention here is that new players are hesitant to give up information whereas experienced players know the standard way to deal with pressure. Danielle says that if she was personally pressured, she would fight it, argue and not give up any information. However, the vast majority of experienced players would simply wait for enough votes and then give their character at which point, the other players would unvote and move on to a different player. A new player on the other hand may refuse to give up their character or may give too much info including their role, or may copy-paste their role PM. The majority of new players would be overwhelmed with the game and will not react to the pressure in a way that regular players would consider "standard." Con says that more experienced players are aware that noobs typically act in a way that is considered scummy and not persue it. However, experienced mafia will persue it and push for role-claims and lynches. C2) Assessment of guiltMy point is that pressuring players whose style you know is more efficient because their reactions give you more insight than pressuring players you don't know. Con counters by saying that you don't need to pressure someone to see their style. The part that Con is missing is that when someone is pressured, their reaction to the pressure is what is telling. Do they stall? Do they stubbornly demand that more votes be placed on them and they won't claim until it is done? Do they turn the pressure on the accuser and counter-accuse them? It is those reactions that give away whether someone is mafia or town. When pressuring someone who you know, you will be able to see their reaction to determine their innocence or guilt. Pressuring someone you don't know does not give you the same insight.Also, my opponent's rebuttal works in my favor as well. If experienced players are in general more difficult to read than new players, then pressuring them for a claim would be the only surefire way of analyzing their guilt or innocence. New players can be pressured later if they are found to slip up, and they are more likely to slip up compared to experienced players. C3) Information about a player's roleCon doesn't really counter the meat of this point. I never said that revealing a power role makes a noob look suspicious. My argument is that new players unaware of how much they should reveal, may reveal far too much information about their role than is absolutely necessary. This puts a target on their back. For instance, a noob pressured for a character claim on DP1 may reveal that he/she is the doctor or watcher. This would cause them to be an instant target leading town to lose a power role.Con doesn't respond to the fact that if the new player pressured is mafia, they have the support of their mafia teammates so can think of a good claim.C4) Strategies used to avoid claimingPressuring an experienced player avoids the problem of revealing too much information. Even if asked for a role-claim, an experienced player might be able to convince the town that it is not in their best interest to push for it. Noobs will most likely lack those skills. This is why it is better to pressure a player who is confident enough to handle the pressure in a way that is most beneficial to the town.REBUTTALSI'll start by rebutting the "meat and potatoes" of my opponent's arguments which are points 4, 5, and 6 and then give a quick rebuttal to the other points. 4) Con says that the primary reason for voting for a noob is that they "suck" at mafia. She says that a more experienced player is likely to trick you whereas a noob would mess up. She would prefer that experienced players be investigated. But this creates a problem where the same group of experienced players always tend to be investigated first which is not a pleasant experience for anyone. My opponent, for instance is well known for complaining that she is always the first to be investigated, killed, role-blocked, framed and a whole host of other things, and with good reason too. If she were pressured first, for instance, people might get a good feel of how she reacts to pressure and be able to draw conclusions from that as opposed to investigating her first every night. So, my position on pressuring experienced players would actually leave players like her less likely to be investigated which a net benefit. 5) Con says that you can rely on your reads and scum-tells from experienced players without pressuring them. However, the way a player plays without pressure is different from the way a players plays when under pressure. Their reaction to pressure IS the read that you should be looking for. They are also much more likely to commit their usual scum-tells when under pressure than when not. 6) "The only way to tell if a n00b's idiocy is legitimate or not is to get a definitive claim from them"This argument can go both ways. The best players (like Con) are better at deception and seemingly play pro-town. So, it can be argued that the only way to tell if they are town or mafia is to get a definitive claim from them. For instance, most players would be hard pressed to tell when Con is town or mafia just by watching her playstyle but if she were to claim, it opens up many more possibilities that can determine innocence or guilt such as the role, its provability, past night actions etc. With a lot more information to go on, innocence or guilt can be more easily determined.1) Con says that noobs will not likely get power roles. However, her method of assigning roles is to do it randomly. This isn't an exception as many of the other experienced mods agree with it. TVellalot says in the mod advice thread "I like Danielle's method of randomly assigning the characters to the numbers and letting people unwillingly pick their own."This contention doesn't hold water as most mods starting with Danielle are more likely to assign roles randomly than deliberately give new players unimportant roles. 2) Con says that the town can help direct the night actions of new players so that they are not wasted on misused. However, "directing" night actions will likely result in the mafia knowing exactly who to target. As demonstrated in Heroes V Villains mafia, openly broadcasting all of the town's actions directly led to a town loss.3) "As such, it can be statistically in your favor that a n00b is likely mafia."This isn't true because the number of mafia range from 1/3 to 1/6 of the total players and going by my oppoenent's strategy, it is statistically more likely for any player (including a new player) to be town than mafia.Sources[1] http://www.debate.org...;