A Creator's Existence is Apparent

Thank you for challenging me in this debate. I agree with all that has been said by Con in the first post. My first post is simply a copy paste of my first round in my previous debate. This is fair, because this is exactly what Con wishes to rebuke.First I believe the following is important to realize,Whether God exists or not, is not really a scientific question. You´re not going to prove his existence through science nor will you disprove it. Instead, it is a philosophical question. Though, you can use things such as science and history to support your own arguments, or to tackle your opponent´s arguments. But philosophical reasoning, using the rational and intelligent minds we have that can critically think to draw reasonable and logical conclusions, has to be the basis in terms of coming to a conclusion about God.Btw: I am a Christian, but I want to debate about "a creator" and not Yahweh/Yahushua. Let's begin.The cosmological argument: what is the best explanation for the origens of the universe, intelligence or non-intelligence?Christian scientists (etc) have always maintained that the universe had a beginning. A point where time, space and matter came into existance, contrary to it being an eternal universe. After all, the bible says, in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.Secular scientists have long maintained that the universe was eternal, yet nowadays, for a long while, scientists from any background, or worldview, now basically all (no doubt there’s the exception) agree that this universe does have a point back in time where it came into existance and thus is not eternal. The secular scientists call this the big bang instead of God.Regardless, the fact that the universe had a beginning is extremely significant. Because, if the universe would be eternal, then there is no point of thinking about a cause that caused the universe to be. However,1. Everything that begins to exists has a cause2. This universe began to exist3. Therefore, this universe has a cause.Now we can think about this cause, to see if we can find out what this cause could possibly be.Now then, in terms of the cosmological argument, we will examine our universe to see what seems to be a reasonable cause. After all, the components of the universe could certainly tell us things about the cause.First observation concerning the universe: Everything hangs upon mathematical patterns and formulas.Second observation: The universe and our world are finely tuned for life.Now, let us reason with one another.Is it more reasonable, to assume that the universe hangs upon extreme complex mathematical patterns and formulas, and that the universe is so finely tuned for life as it is, as result of an intelligent mind or non-intelligence?I submit to you that it is absurd to say such extreme complex math, and fine tuning of the universe, comes from the unintelligent or non-intelligent such as merely a big bang. There would be a huge logical disconnection there.The design argument: is complex design absolute proof of a designer (creation of creator, etc)?First we shall have to establish whether there is a clear design in the universe or not. I shall present a few examples to demonstrate that, indeed, there is a clear design in the universe. Let us once again reason with eachother.- Example 1: Consider the appletree.Don’t merely gaze at it. There’s all sorts of things happening inside the appletree, and around it, and it has its function too. The tree requires organic minerals to grow and to remain healthy. It has its roots dug deep in the ground, and by means of photosynthesis, the appletree absorbs the strong energy of the sun in order to absorb the inorganic minerals from the ground and convert them into organic minerals which the appletree now can utilize to grow and remain healthy. Thusly, also apples appear, which now can be eaten by humans who also require the organic minerals which are now found in the apple. To me, clearly this is a process, a system, a design. And then we haven’t even spoken yet on what happens inside the tree at microscopic or molecular level. All sorts of things happen in systematic and orderly ways, a design.- Example 2: The human body.Again, think about what all the cells and molecules etc do. But on a more overt level, consider the organs that work within you. Your brains, or you eye with all of its functions and how it is hardwired into your brain with thousands and thousands of wires. The lens, etc. It is clearly designed. You put the aforementioned apple into your mouth, you chew it, swallow; it falls down your throat into your stomach, then your digistive track/ colons. All clearly in a system or design. We also have the nervousSYSTEM, clearly design. Consider some of those crazy well-made robots of nowadays, how absolutely inferior they are to the human body, yet it takes an incredible amount of intelligence, manpower, time and money to create it. I would never convince you that such a thing came to be without an intelligent mind. You’d scoff, and call me a fool if I were serious. However, just a single single celled organism in our body is tons more complex than said robot. We call it irreducibly complex. What follows logically, is that to assume that the human body came to be without an intelligent mind is, reasonably speaking, an absurd concept. Again, there would be a huge logical disconnection there.- Example 3: DNA.Wow. Just wow. This one nails the coffin. I shall not expand on this too much, because wow. To assume DNA comes to be out of nothing, for no reason what so ever, out of the blue, purely by chance, by natural means and natural laws, without intelligence, is an absurd idea in the light of what we’ve spoken of so far. I would greatly press on your heart, that if you think DNA came about by such means, that you should consider asking yourself the question whether you have been intellectually honest with yourself in studying this matter. The human DNA contains so much ordered information, a written language, actual instructions, that if you’d stretch it all out, you’d reach the moon (and then back to earth again, I believe. But atleast all the way tot he moon!). This is all densily packed into that which we call DNA. What is more reasonable, to assume this comes from an incredible intelligent mind or the non-intelligent? Seems clear to me.Now, I didn’t mean to go on regarding the design argument after these three examples, but finally I’d also like to point out the greater dependence that everything has with eachother, or symbiosis, which makes it all seem even more like a complex clockwork design. Remove a component and things won’t work as well anymore as it used to, if at all. This also suits nicely with argument one. The symbiosis points out that it all came to existance at once, for else things wouldn’t work or begin to work to begin with. Missing a vital function shuts the entire system down, both nowadays and when you think origens.Now then,Is design absolute proof of a designer?This sounds like a rhetoric question to me. The only possible answer to this question could be yes. Let us keep reasoning here. You will never find a painting in case there has never been a painter before in existance. Likewise, if you do happen to stumble upon a painting, you can bet your billion dollar bank account without breaking a sweat that there either is or has been a painter in existance.No building without a builder. You see a building? There is or has been a builder. Even if you’ve never seen the builder, or have never seen a building being built, or never had the knowledge of the concept of a builder. It is a matter of truth which cannot change regardless of the scope of your knowledge.No robot without a robot engineer. No human without a “human maker”. No universe without a “universe maker”.So then,1. Complex design is absoluut proof of a designer2. This universe and all of its components show complex and even irreducibly complex design3. Therefore, this universe either has or had a designer.Naturally the secular person then goes on to propose that if such is the case, then who designed God? But obviously, if God has created time, space and matter, then what logically follows is that he’s a timeless, spaceless and immaterial being who lives in the dimension beyond ours, the supernatural, the dimension of eternity. So God is eternal, meaning he has always been, he is and he shall always be. He never began to exist and therefore there is no cause to his existance. (This is in fact the reasoning the secular scientist tried to put on the universe itself prior to everyone being in agreement that the universe certainly cannot be eternal.) Otherwise you’d end up in an endless spiral of paradox, which simply gives us intelectual headaches, despite the infinite, eternal, immaterial and uncaused nature of God also sometimes being hard to grasp for us finite beings. But it is what it is. We're talkin about God after all. But think of it like this: a painter is very alien to the painting, as is a game designer towards his digital game world he created. Of complete different nature.Is it not obvious that there is a creator of everyone and all things?