Torture should never be used for the purpose of extracting information.

Greetings surfride and thank you for making this debate topic. I regret to tell you that may argument is much in the same vein as the one that you declaimed as flawed in your opening post. A fundamental right that a moral system of governance should uphold that often comes up with the idea of torture for information is the right to exist in peace. It is my belief that by taking actions that negate the rights of others to exist in peace, one looses in part or in whole, that right. I also believe that the morality of an action that an organization takes can be determined by the potential ability for said action to result in a net increase of the rights of the people that are led or governed by said organization. Basically I believe in utilitarianism. "A) first of all, it is impossible to tell whether a person has the requisite information to prevent the plot" What needs to be realized is that the person in question(or any person)has the POTENTIAL to hold information within his or herself that would result in the torturing organization being able to better protect the right to exist of those who entrust their rights with the organization that tortured the individual for information(likely a government.) "B)secondly, if a person is really devoted enough to kill thousands of people, torture would only harden their resolve to not speak until the plot was completed, or give false information" Who says that the person we caught is a devoted Al-quida member who considers all Americans infidels, and wishes death to America even at the cost of his life? An organization, like the US government, might come across a person who simply doesn't harbor the same feelings towards the US, but may infact hold information that would be vital in ensuring the security, and rights of the people. "C) third, in order to catch a terrorist with knowledge of a plot, a police agency would already have to know that a plot existed, have knowledge of the terrorist cell attempting the plot, and know where some of the terrorists were going to be in order to arrest them. If a police force already has this much information, and was able to catch at least one terrorist, it seems highly improbable that the agency either has not already foiled the plan or should have enough information to stop the attack." That's a rather confusing point, but, "...plot existed, have knowledge of the terrorist cell attempting the plot, and know where some of the terrorists were going to be in order to arrest them." All of the things that you stated before me can be acquired by organizations and agencies in a wide variety of methods, one of those methods is torture of individuals who may hold information of varying degrees. One torture won't foil an entire attack, but it can aid in the procurement of intelligence that can lead to stopping an event that would abridge some people's right to exist. "D) Many people talk about this scenario, yet it has never once happened! There has never been a case where there was a known large-scale plot and a person with knowledge of said plot in custody." The idea that any organization should go around torturing individuals willy-nilly for information is absurd, and one that I stand strongly in opposition to. However, there is no universal law of nature that dictates that a torture will never yield intelligence of any kind that could protect the rights of innocent people. Because of this, one can not simply rule out torture in all circumstances, as this resolution does. Just because the pro side has never witnessed an instance of torture aiding an organization in protecting the right to exist of the people who entrust said rights to the organization, doesn't mean it won't ever happen in all eternity. It is not right to require organizations to not try to the best of their ability to thwart plots that could cause destruction to their cause, which is the people they are to protect. As Richard Posner, Justice on the Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit of the United States puts it so succinctly, "If torture is the only means of obtaining the information necessary to to prevent the detonation of a nuclear bomb in Times Square, torture should be used... to obtain the information."