The Velvet Underground Are Simultaneously The Most Underrated and Overrated Band of All Time.

Thank you Lwerd. You make some great points as i expected you to. Obviously it is very difficult to definitly prove something is over/underrated. My job will be to provide enough evidence to suggest that this belief is substantiated. 1 . I have provided evidence. Apparently my opponent failed to review my sources. -Number 1 for 1967 and number 4 of all time 2. Con correctly pionts out this logic but fails to take into account the relationship between musicians and popular recognition (i. e being well known) Being an unknown lawyer has completely different implications than being an unknown musician. Knowning lawyers is not a fundamental part of most human's existence. Musicians however are very different. Music is a fundamental part of human existence by and large. (there are a few very small exceptions to this among very few indigenous peoples. ) Popular recognition is in fact a method of understanding the ratings of a musician. Allow me to better clarifly this. Within a given circle of people if X is fundamentally part of that circle then popular recognition of (an) individual(s) within that circle is a method for evaluating said individual(s) rating. Within the circle of lawyers (and businessmen who need lawyers) the degree of popular recognition a lawyer has (to the people within that circle) does correlate with a merit rating, whether it is good or bad. In the case of music nearly everyone holds music to be fundamentally part of their life. So the circle of people is so large it includes basically everyone. So the popular recognition of musicans by everyone does correlate to a rating. Well known musicians are highly rated by virtue of being well known. In most cases they are overrated. People are generally aware of the fact that there are great musicians who are not well known. Such musicians are underrated in this case. (plz note i'm not saying that being well known makes a musician good, i'm saying being well known makes a musician highly/over rated. ) 3a. Rateyourmusic. com is democratic as it is the ppl who decide the artists ratings. Just as this site is democractic as it is the ppl who decide who wins the debate. Ppl dont have to vote on rateyourmusic. com for their opinion to be valid. That website is just a means of collecting what people's opinions are. I was collecting people's opinions to use as evidence that many people think TVU are great. People can not skew the votes as easily on that website as they can here b/c there are hundreds of thousands of voters. Over 7000 for that one album alone and many many more accross the whole website. Its very unlikely that anyone has skewn the votes b/c you would have to make thousands of accounts. 3b. Thanks for pointing out this logical jump i was fully aware of it and had a feeling you might exploit it. (while hoping you wouldn't :P) This is were the debate is very difficult for me . I will address this in 2 different ways >i - decide for yourself. these are two of TVU most famous songs. . http://search.playlist.com... . http://search.playlist.com... this is the rest of the album that they are most acclaimed for. . http://search.playlist.com... . http://search.playlist.com... . http://search.playlist.com... . http://search.playlist.com... . http://search.playlist.com... . http://search.playlist.com... . http://search.playlist.com... . http://search.playlist.com... . http://search.playlist.com... . http://search.playlist.com... . http://search.playlist.com... plz listen and tell me if you think that is the number 4 Best Album Of All Time. > RYM or the number one according to NME and The Observer. 13 According to Rolling Stones. >ii The ablum is creative but lacks talent. Lou Reed hasn't even learned how to hold a note as a singer. Clearly its overrated. 3c. It is exactly the same as your sources i wanted to be sure and provide sources like yours incase you felt my analysis of your sources was incorrect. 4. The main point of my argument was that they aren't popularly recognized today and they are rating more highly then they should be today. That point was a minor side note for more info. 5. see [2. ] 6. This was inregards to "::POINT FOUR::" in your R1. I agree with your analysis that some people either love or hate different things. That if something is unique some ppl with praise it while others brand it as rubbish. This analysis however, doesn't address my point. It talks about my point, futher explains it if you will but it doesn't disprove it. My point still holds. You do not win the debate on this measure. The example of Heath: some people saying that Heath's performance was overrated doesn't make it underrated. As i've shown in #2 popular recognition (diff. from commercial success) does display how highly/lowly something is rated. (not necessarily how good it is, but how it is rated) Re: CONCLUSION: I am not incorrect, my opponent must provide an example of a band that is more overrated and more underrated to prove me wrong. (now she may win the debate regardless of whether she does that but that is what she must do to prove me wrong. ) Pointing out that there is no unbiased way of determing this does not mean you win the debate bc that was never included in the provisions of this debate. I never claimed that there was an unbiased way of determing this. There isnt an unbiased way of determining anything. I'm just saying that TVU are the most under/overrated band. and this is something we can determine with substantiated evidence. (it may require some bias in the sense that yes you must form an opinion about what makes music good. ) That is the only bias and it isnt a bias that i ever claimed i wouldn't rely on. Conclusion: According to points 2 and 3b i have shown that TVU are the most under/overrated band.