That travellers should be forced to settle

I did not misunderstand your argument; you simply were not clear. Now that I know what you mean by "travellers" I will debate that subject. "Obviously, if someone is living in a caravan, without running water, without bins, without toilets, their waste is going to be thrown outside in the area that they reside in. " I detest your assumptions and use or words such as "obviously" (I will point how you consistently declare many points as "obvious" later on). How is this obvious? Are you certain that they have no other means for disposing of their waste? I have researched many sites and none of them have mentioned how travellers are unhygienic and throw their waste "outside in the area that they reside in. " I ask that you find me hard evidence to the contrary. Otherwise, I deem that this statement to be just a matter of opinion, and so, it really proves nothing about travellers. " 'How would the odd-jobs be done? ' " "I find your attitude towards the travellers here to be almost vulgar. As if you are saying it's work that should be done by the 'little people'. " First off, I did not know that we were discussing the social/ethnic group known as "travellers" that dwell mainly in Ireland and the UK. It did not mean to belittle travellers (both because I did not know we were debating about them and that I was describing what MIGRANT WORKERS do. Please read what I write so that you understand my entire argument). I was describing how migrant workers (in the United States) sometimes do different odd-jobs (defined by dictionary. com as "to work at a series of unrelated or unspecialized jobs, often of a low-paying or menial nature" (. http://dictionary.reference.com...). Again, I was not referring to travellers but migrant workers (whom I thought you may have been referring to before you cleared up what the subject of the debate was). Again, you declare another point to be obvious by stating "We all know that next to no travellers go to college and I trust that I do not have to go into the importance of college in the majority of peoples lives. " Where is your proof that next to no travellers go to college, and, if this is in fact true, just because college is important to one person does not make it important to another. Why would the travellers want to go to college (they might even desire not to--see further down). So, again, I ask you to prove your statement. I believe to have found some information to the contrary. In an essay written by Dr. Leon Litvack, Litvack states that "very few [travellers] desire to assimilate" (. http://www.qub.ac.uk...). Travellers are their own ethnic group (in the UK) and social group (in Ireland) that the majority of which do not wish to join society because it would take them from their way of life. You state that "Most of these people actually want to settle. " Where is your proof? Dr. Litvack describes how many travellers refuse to settle because they wish to keep with their ethnic traditions, such as their language which has "never been broadcast on Irish television, and is not taught even at all-Traveller schools". Litvack states that "rejection of language (and consequently, culture) is the price Travellers pay for admission to full participation in Irish life. " I see no reason to force an ethnic group to give up their culture. Again, you use that distasteful word of obviously when you say, "It is obviously better to settle these people on the grounds that it is better for their health and their education". Where is your proof? You continue. .. "is also better for them because it will be much easier for them to get a job. " Where is your proof? Do they really want a job in the standard society? It seems from Dr. Litvack's essay that many travellers are content with their lifestyle and ethic heritage. You continue to state that many points are "obvious" while I must say I strongly disagree and/or desire proof of your statement. You conclude your argument by stating that "The government needs to put more of an effort and more money into the council home system so these people can fix their lives and live in the way that they dream of. .". I say for a final time, where is your proof that these people want to "fix" their lives and dream of living a different way than they do right now? If the travellers really dreamed of joining society, could they not have done so? Even with possible prejudices and discrimination, is it not possible? Your argument seems to have a common theme that is both better for and "obvious" that travellers desire to join society, yet I see no proof of this. In fact, I have provided proof to the contrary. Unless you can prove that they desire to be integrated into society and have trouble doing so, I see them as an ethnic group content with their lifestyle and culture. Although there are accusations that their ethnic/social group is detrimental to society (usually through cons), there is no solid proof that I could find that the majority of travellers do so. You even defended their jobs when you declared my attitude towards travellers as "vulgar" and stated that the jobs of their ancestors were meaningful (and I agree with you, many of their jobs certainly are meaningful)! The only reason I could ever see for forcing an ethnic group to integrate itself into society would be if they were either rebellious to the government or all a bunch of criminals. Your view of these people is almost like that of one who believes in the philosophy of a Utopian society where all people wish to be well-educated (well-educated by the general society's standards), live in a nice, quaint community where everyone likes everyone. I do not feel like proving how all Utopian societies have failed (I will do so if you wish), but they fail and it is because sometimes people like the lifestyle they have now. So, I challenge you to prove your statements. Otherwise, I see this ethnic group as just another ethnic group, neither being detrimental to society (which would mean they should be forced to join it, as the topic statement declares) nor wishing to joining it.