L-M Classic: patsox834 vs. feverish.

Thanks and respect to Patsox for a strong comeback. Scrolling up and down that post, it seems that most of my opponent's points focus on accurate character portrayal and adherence to the specified canon. I think he has raised a few valid issues but also made many flawed observations. He hasn't really offered any new strategies so in this round I'll pretty much stick with my original strategies too, though I may develop them a little. -- 1. Whether the Storm. <"Dracula may be more experienced"> Dracula's superior experience is acknowledged, I emphasise that he has had centuries to master the powers that Storm developed in her adult life. <" but Storm's raw power should be able to easily counteract that."> The assumption that Storm has more raw power is unfounded. The extent of Dracula's weather control is unspecified but given the extent of his other powers I would not be surprised if it vastly outstripped Storm's. I maintain that it would certainly be strong enough to neutralise most of Storm's attacks. The most compelling evidence is perhaps the fact that Storm's powers require intense concentration and are physically and emotionally draining for her, whereas Drac performs his feats with a marked nonchalance. <"When she decides to make the weather blistering hot, then there's not much Dracula can do"> <"Storm can easily make the sun shine down with great intensity." Storm's powers consist of affecting the weather conditions that already exist in her environment. Please explain how this allows her to make the sun shine brighter. Also I would have thought it one of the easiest forms of weather control to manufacture a small dark cloud in the immediate vicinity to keep oneself in shadow. -- 2. Spawn again. <"the suit is apart of the character's constituency"> I don't intend to labour the issue of Spawn's costume. Yes, it has become part of Spawn but is still specified as a separate entity in the source. <"team members are "absolutely loyal" to the individual facilitating the aforementioned team"> Mind control (as my opponent attempts to use in this debate) is legal and clearly overrides team loyalty, semantics aside. In addition the control Dracula exerts is an involuntary physical control, so Spawn's inner loyalty is irrelevant, moreover he is not even attempting to control or make him do anything, just restrain him. <""pull a Mewtwo" -- that is, use psychic powers such as telekinesis to manipulate Spawn's mind."> I think my opponent is mixing up his mind power jargon, telekinesis (psychokinesis) is moving objects with the mind, distinct from mind control and other forms of telepathy. http://en.wikipedia.org... Incidentally, Dracula's powers do include mind control. <"why would Spawn stay loyal to Dracula? Spawn didn't stay loyal to entities much, much more powerful than Dracula could ever hope to be, namely Satan. Knowing this about Spawn, I really doubt someone who he is clearly much more powerful than could keep him loyal."> Comparing Dracula with Satan is irrelevant, Satan (I assume you reference the Judeo-Christian Bible) does not command the automatic loyalty or exercise control over the undead. We can debate about him another time. You assume Spawn is more powerful than Dracs. Well, I can only say that that's not polite and he is known to bear a grudge. :) -- 3. Hide and Seek. <"blow them out of hiding with winds, and maybe even a tornado."> Tornadoes are wind. Storm's winds would be neutralised by Dracula and would anyway not be a very effective means of locating a hidden enemy. If this is really team patsox's only detection strategy then they've no chance of finding my lads. <"I have two members capable of teleportation"> Teleportation is indeed a potentially effective evasion tool. However Spawn is struggling with some inner conflict (on a molecular level) and Mewtwo is just not fast enough to react to guys like Starks and Monkey. <"He is also unable to enter a place unless invited to do so>" This is a fair point, I had always assumed that this limitation extended only to private residences rather than just anywhere as the source seems to suggest. It shouldn't be too hard however, depending on how you want to interpret it. I could personally invite Dracula to enter the sewer or indeed any member of my team could, even if we insist that they have to pop open a manhole and jump in there first to invite him, it shouldn't be a problem. Lastly he could simply order a rat to invite him in. -- 3 a) Further Dracula dissing Dracula is formidable but does of course have many interesting (fairly trivial) weaknesses, this is part of what makes him a fascinating character. The sun won't bother him under a cloud or in the sewer, he's in the form I want him in, he doesn't need to cross the river and being repulsed is hardly limiting. The fact that I am repulsed by paedophilia makes me potentially more dangerous to a paedo than a lack of repulsion would. One important fact to consider is that in the novel Dracs is rarely, if at all shown to exert himself even when controlling groups of other vampires or huge packs of wolves. Throughout the story he is merely toying with the protagonists. It is only his own arrogance and complacency, plus Van Helsing's extensive knowledge of his powers and weaknesses that allows them to defeat him. Drac is the don. My opponent's attempts to belittle him represent little more than mortal terror. -- 4. Trickster Bugs. Bugs' girl outfit trick only works on especially foolish characters such as Daffy Duck, Yosemite Sam, Elmer Fudd etc. Clearly not on the same intellectual level as Starks or Monkey. 5 year old kids (I have one) are well aware that it's still Bugs under the dress. Saying he's a trickster does not put him on the level of a supreme being like Buddha who is most definitely a trickster too. <"the Zen tradition speaks of the Buddha himself, the great enlightened teacher, as a "trickster">http://www.pwf.cz... If my opponent really wants to make seduction a key tactic then he'd probably have more luck trying it with Storm, who is at least an attractive, female human. -- 5. Spawn again, again. <"Spawn wouldn't at all want to obey Dracula, especially when Dracula has been rendered useless"> Whether Spawn wishes to is irrelevant, in fact I assumed he would resist which is why the effect would be near incapacity rather than external control by my team. Again this power is shown to require minimum effort. -- 6.Meow. <"I don't see where in my opponent's canon it says that Sun Wukong has such a spirit."> My bad, it is his nature rather than his spirit but I don't see much distinction. It is mentioned in the spoken introduction to every episode. http://en.wikipedia.org... <"I see no reason why Mewtwo couldn't use the array of attacks he wields to dismantle this shield"> Starks is the greatest inventor in the Marvel universe where psychics are abundant, his shields would be serious and the slow Mewtwo would not get through them fast enough before Tony blew him to bits. Mewtwo looks like a bit of a pussycat to me anyway. -- 7. Spawn again and again and again. <"that's non-canonical."> I don't think my opponent can reasonably post a source and expect us to ignore the parts that disagree with his argument, I am not disregarding any of my character's weaknesses. The source describes a method of permanently killing Spawn that my team could easily employ. I should also point out that a source specifies a canon and is not a canon in itself. -- I remain unconvinced by my opponent's arguments and consider my original strategies to have been effective with my team's victory the inevitable outcome. Really enjoying the debate. Over to you Patsox.