Girls should "make the first move" more than they currently do now.

Response mode, activate! _____________________________________ RESPONSE TO: "You assume that shy and socially anxious men are weak.", related statements My point has simply been missed here. Perhaps it wasn't the clearest choice of wording. I will attempt to restate my point to some extent: When it comes to finding a mate, and all other traits held constant... Smart men have an advantage over dumb men. Strong men have an advantage over weak men. Confident men have an advantage over shy men. I was simply showing that it isn't any more unfair to the shy man than it is to the dumb or weak man. I was meaning weak physically, but it and strong could be used for any facet of a person, I suppose. _____________________________________ RESPONSE TO: That love-shy guys tend to be nice, intelligent, etc. and any statements that rely on this assertion. This is an assertion, nothing more. My opponent fails to back this statement up, except for saying "I can personally attest to this, because I have formed many relationship with these kinds of people outside of the online community." However, this is not enough warranting to hold that premise up. First off, it's an anecdote. Just because you've had an experience that seems to lead to X does not mean the bigger picture follows suit. What I mean by this is that my opponent's observations about certain acquaintances of his simply cannot be used as if they were observations about the entire group. Also, there is the possibility that my opponent has fabricated this anecdote to further his case. It may seem unlikely, but it's impossible for us to tell. this is another reason why purely anecdotal evidence will not cut it here. How bout this. I know a lot of love shy guys, and from my experience, they tend to be psychopathic, inconsiderate, weak, dumb, ugly, smelly, dirty, and they're cruel to animals. Hopefully ye get what I mean. However, this point can still be substantiated if my opponent puts forward a logical line of reasoning showing WHY love-shy men would tend to be more X, Y, and Z. _____________________________________ RESPONSE TO: "both parties will be benefited by the relationship between a shy guy and a female willing to initiate a relationship." If a woman is willing to initiate a relationship and wants to, she already does it. It's not common. _____________________________________ RESPONSE TO: That love-shy only applies to men in this debate It applies to both genders, and there has not been anything limiting it to only men. I agree that it does not have the same negative effects (not getting a partner) for females as it does for males. This is because many males are confident and will ask out a love-shy girl, where the chances of the opposite are slimmer. This point was simply to show that it is likely that these females you're urging to start asking out guys _cannot_ do so, at least within the parameters of this debate. As my opponent noted in round 1, it is very difficult, if not impossible, for a love-shy person to ask someone out. The point lies in the fact that many women are love-shy, not that it causes them any harm. _____________________________________ RESPONSE TO: "Your argument here tells why they do not pursue the first move but does nothing to say why they shouldn't other that that it is the social norm. Kind of circular reasoning, "women should stick to the social norm because it is the social norm." We are debating on whether or not it should change." No, my argument tells why many women are in fact love-shy. In this debate, my opponent has noted that a love-shy person cannot simply ask a person out; it isn't a matter of "growing a pair." Therefore, my opponent's resolution is much like "Crippled people should walk to the store more often than they do." Perhaps they should... if they could. I am arguing that this abundance of love-shy women should not ask men out more often for the same reason my opponent isn't putting the burden of fixing their own problems on the love-shy men. _____________________________________ RESPONSE TO: "Women would be more likely to be in long term relationships as once a love-shy person gets with someone, it is of the utmost importance to them hold onto her. They know they are very lucky and will treat their loved one much better and value them more than someone who could easily hit the clubs and pick up women if he needed to, resulting in a longer relationship." So the relationships will stay together simply because he doesn't think he can get any better? While this is likely true, we must consider that many women would see this as devaluing their relationship. I know I would, if I was a woman. I, as I think most people do, prefer for people to be in a relationship with me because of how much they care about me, etc., not because they can't get anyone else. Relationships like that should NOT last very long, and as my opponent has shown, they would if women started asking out love-shy men. _____________________________________ RESPONSE TO: "As you stated before, women like the strong and smart traits, they would most likely get both of these in a love-shy person as they tend to be very romantic and intellectual, just unable to openly express their feelings. With some work a girl could help the love-shy person break out of their shell, getting much more than what they could from some social stud." It has not been shown that love-shy people tend to be smarter, more romantic, stronger, etc. _____________________________________ MY OFFENSE: First, I would like to drop one of my arguments. This is the "it could be partially genetic" argument. It's not only an irrelevant point now, but my opponent has provided a source with at least some amount of merit to discredit this. I was unsure whether it was nature or nurture, so I initially used both points, but this is no longer needed. Now let's take the perspective of a female here. We're not in a relationship and there's this guy we like. Unfortunately, he's really shy, and it seems he won't ask us out. There are 2 things we could do here: ask him out, or not. i] First, we might ask him out, or let him know that we like him romantically. This would be "making the first move." Very few women do this. Why? That is the question we must now examine. ii] Second, we might not ask him out. What are our reasons for this? :: a] We do not want to ask him out. Regardless of our reason for this, we should not ask him out if this is the case, since people should not do things they don't want to do. :: b] We are unable to ask him out. Regardless of our reason for this, we should not ask him out if this is the case, since we're unable to. Should requires a possibility. These are the reasons why women do not ask out men. Every woman who does not ask out a guy has one of these reasons. Since these reasons are valid, and no other decision should be made in these cases, women should NOT make the first move more than they currently do. Women's reasons for not asking men out are justified and valid, and therefore I uphold the status quo. Now I will go over what I expect from Pro. I expect some kind of warranting for the "shy guys are more X" argument. I expect a rebuttal to the above argument. I expect some line of reasoning as to why love-shy applies only to males, if ye still wish to assert this. I look forward to the rest of the debate ;]