White Nationalism is not inherently racist

Thanks OreEle. White nationalism Before the debate began I gave Pro the opportunity to select a definition for white nationalism. The one definition he provided http://www.google.com... clearly contradicts his interpretation by specifying "a separate all-white nation state" contrary to OreEle's insistence that this is not an inherent component of white nationalism. As he hasn't provided an alternative definition or any evidence that his personal perception of white nationalism is more accurate than the source he linked, I can only assume we're going with the full definition: "White nationalism is a political ideology which advocates a racial definition of national identity for white people, and a separate all-white nation state. White separatism and white supremacism are subgroups within white nationalism." Nationalism OreEle is quite right to point out that there is more than one definition of nationalism, many words can of course have more than one very distinct meaning but only one definition of nationalism really makes sense when you put "white" in front of it. •patriotism: love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it •the doctrine that your national culture and interests are superior to any other •the aspiration for national independence felt by people under foreign domination •the doctrine that nations should act independently (rather than collectively) to attain their goals Nationalism can indeed refer to mere patriotism and love of one's country, but as OreEle acknowledges, "there is no "White" region in the world", no white nation to be patriotic about, so the general definition of national pride is clearly not valid here. Similarly no white nationalists in the modern world are "under foreign domination" from a non-white external power, so the definition that applies to Irish nationalists and to American sentiment in the build up to the Revolutionary War is equally inappropriate. The final definition of the four that Pro lists can't apply for the same reasons as the first, so the only suitable definition we are left with here is "the doctrine that your national culture and interests are superior to any other". Such a doctrine applied to a race is clearly a racist doctrine. Exclusion and superiority We've established that white nationalists don't live in all white nations, rather, they want to create all white nations and on the whole they want the nations they already live in to become purely white nations. How anyone could ask for a clearer example of racism is beyond me. By defining citizenship on the basis of race and declaring their non-white neighbours to be not merely second class citizens, but not even citizens at all, they are clearly asserting white people to be superior, in terms of the validity of their claim to citizenship if not in other aspects as well. It is an obvious example of discrimination on the basis of race and a direct statement of superior entitlement for white people. Culture and race OreEle make the claim that discussions of white nationalism "should obviously focus down to culture". While this seems to makes total sense from a rational and non racist perspective, we can't ignore the clear fact that white nationalists have an irrational and unscientific racial perspective of whiteness, where not everyone who appears white actually qualifies for their definition of whiteness. I am referring of course to Jews. Although anti-semitism may no longer be the main rhetorical focus of white nationalist movements, if you scratch the surface of any group of white nationalists you will find a deep seated hatred and lack of acceptance for Jews. This fact is so widely known that I don't feel the need to reference it here, though I will be happy to provide evidence next round if requested. While there are ethnic and ancestral components of Judaism, it is in fact a culture and religion that encompasses people of all complexions, a great many of whom are as white as any other person of mostly European ancestry. OreEle goes on to refer to subcultures within white culture, Jewish people clearly have a distinct culture but white Jews are regarded by white nationalists as not white or an inferior kind of white. Clearly any attempt to present white nationalism as a celebration of a homogeneous white culture in the same way that parades, history months and the like celebrate the diversity of minority cultures is, at best misguided and at worst fraudulent. OreEle asks "what is white culture?" and attempts to affirm it's existence by merely pointing out that cultures exist which doesn't really follow logically. The other cultures he lists are mostly tied to continetal heritage. He admits that there are many subcultures within white culture and the fact is that all white people have a distinct culture(s) aside from their racial identity of whiteness. Culture can be defined in ethnic, religious or regional terms. For example I am British and my opponent is American so we are from different cultures yet we are both white. Some white Americans also identify as Italian, Irish, Polish or whatever. White nationalists in France are French, those in Australia are Australian etc. It is clear that white nationalists define their own whiteness in racial rather than in cultural terms. Irish and American independence As touched on briefly above, there is a huge difference between the type of nationalism that consists of freeing your country from the colonial rule of an overseas empire and the type that seeks to evict all your fellow citizens who don't look and think like you do. White nationalists claim their nations are under invasion from illegal immigrants but this is hardly equivalent to having foreign overlords. White nationalists generally live in countries where the vast majority of their leaders are white, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see a surge in white nationalist sentiment in America just in response to having a non-white president, though it may well be too early to judge. Houses and nations OreEle presents a charming example of wanting your own home as an analogy to describe white separatism, unfortunately it is wildly inappropriate. One's home is one's private domain for oneself and one's family; one's neighbours are external to it. Nations are inherently community dwellings that we share with our fellow citizens. The analogy of wanting one's own house is only comparable to white nationalism if we imagine a large shared house where everyone has a tenancy agreement but the white majority of tenants conspire with the white landlords to have the non-white minority of residents evicted on account of their race. This would obviously qualify as racism. Conclusion White nationalists don't just want to limit immigration, they want to live in an all white nation because they regard other races as inferior. White nationalism may try to present itself as a benign celebration of some mythical homogeneous white culture but in reality it is mostly built around a non-scientific racial identity of anglo-saxon and nordic heritage that excludes white people from Jewish and other cultural sub groups. White nationalists are not defending their nations from invasion or occupation by a foreign state, they already live in nations where the dominant culture is predominantly white. They want to exclude what they see as inferior races. OreEle mentions that most infamous of all racists Hitler, but clearly he is not the only well known racist white nationalist and can't be held individually responsible for negative interpretations of white nationalism. If OreEle would like I can list a whole lot of others next round. For now I'm out of characters, so back over to OreEle. Thanks.