The Jesus Myth Debate

Debate is structured the way it is because, more often than not, the two debating will not convince each other wholly of their way of thinking. However, those watching can be persuaded to believe one way or another, from an objective viewpoint. It is a competition, I will admit. And I was not asking you to accept the Bible as fact. I was just saying that if you are asking how I can believe God can punish people with Hell, also consider the fact that the God I believe in is perfectly just and knowing. I do not have to worry about Him being unfair. I have. I had a friend who was cured of cancer spontaneously. That was incredible. I've had friends who have survived near death experiences. I've even felt the presence of my God. But that's me personally. This can't translate to you. I understand that. I can't share my past experiences in a way that's believable with someone who wasn't there. I just encourage you to realize that... yes... we must always look into the cause of things. After all, science never proves anything. We never know for sure if we have the answer scientifically. But I find it more reasonable to believe in my God than I do to believe in pantheism. If you think about it, what is there to back up the belief that everything is god? .... It's as valid of a theory as anything, since it hasn't been disproved. But I want you to see that at some point, you may just be denying Christianity, or religion as a whole, because of harsh feelings towards it. I think evolution is fascinating, personally. However, I don't believe in evolution as an explanation for the creation of the world. This is because, as the famous syllogism goes.... Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause of its existence; The universe has a beginning of its existence; Therefore: The universe has a cause of its existence. Evolution only works when there is something to go off of. We adapt. And even though there's no proof that macro evolution could work/has worked before, I'm willing to consider it. However, the fact that everything had to come from something else leads me to believe that we had a Creator. As for relative truth. I apologize, but I really hate the theories of "relative truth" and "relative morality". Truth exists. The fact that believe that relative truth is true, makes it false. If truth is relative to everyone, how can I believe you when you tell me that it's relative? It's circular reasoning. Why? I must ask. Why do you believe that there is no such thing as truth? We, as humans, try and come up with so many ways to explain how we can all disagree and still be right. However, if I did something I viewed as moral to you, who viewed it as immoral, would you care what my opinion was? No. This teaches us that morality is black, white, and constant. It's not gray and squishy. I want to point out that this whole time, even if you've been right about everything, I don't have any negative consequences after my life is over. But if I'm right, I'll have positive ones. You, on the other hand, if wrong, will have negative consequences. While, if you're right, you will have no consequences. I do not wish to deny the teaching of evolution. In fact, most of the arguments by Christians aren't to stop teaching evolution, but to teach both evolution and creationism. The problem is that, despite not being proven false, schools are refusing to teach creation as a valid theory? Does this seem just to you? It doesn't to me. Homosexuality is a choice, in my opinion. I understand it's an unpopular opinion. Many people call me a "homophobe". I don't hate homosexuals at all. I, in fact, don't thing that government should tell homosexuals that they can't be together. I don't think that homosexuals should be allowed to be "married", by that specific term. But civil unions I'm okay with. I don't think heterosexual couples should get any more benefit than homosexual ones. I just think that homosexuality is a sin. I wish that homosexuals would stop their acts, (because I still believe it to be a choice) but I love them just the same as I love my Christian friends. I don't understand how the middle east bombings are related... I believe this is actually Islamic worshipers, or Muslims, who are performing Jihad. I do believe in demons. I don't know if one was inside of you, (I sure hope not of course) but that doesn't change the fact they exist. I think that, from my point of view, religious actions are actually treated with harsher backlash than non-religious actions. But then again, you and I are biased, aren't we? Yes. I believe we are. Christianity shouldn't be about stupidity, blind following, or shutting people up if they don't agree with you. Isaiah 1:18 says, "Come, let us reason together.". The point of Christianity is that it's the truth, so if reason is followed, you will eventually wind up with it as the answer. If you don't accept it, that's your choice. But Christians who are afraid to talk about why they believe what they believe, probably don't have much faith in their beliefs at all. As far as baggage goes, it's totally fine. Life can be a pain. 1. I refer back to my earlier statement. We are not meant to be automatons. Yes, God knew what would happen. But He is omniscient, I am not. Again, to assume part of the Biblical God is true is just going to make you angry. You have to have faith that He's all who He says He is, in order to have faith that it'll be okay. All I can do is accept Him, and try and share the news with others. Do you think the society we have today, with all our suffering, is a God-driven one? I don't. So long as we don't have a Utopian society, where everyone follows the same values, we will have disagreement and suffering. That "Utopia" is God's kingdom. God doesn't choose who's going to Hell, just like you don't choose if you kid will kill themselves... You could just lock them in a closet for the rest of their life, force feed them, and make sure they can't move or harm themselves, but you wouldn't do that. You'd rather have them live life and try and get it right, loving them. Correct? 2. My point isn't that morality comes from the Bible. My point is that morality had to have started somewhere. Where did we get the concept? It's like the KCA syllogism I mentioned earlier. What's the cause? Also, I don't think I need to reiterate that the possibility of all that happening, even factoring out that there was no beginning to it all, pales in comparison to the probability of a creator. And another thing, evidence points to a decaying world, correct? Science shows that our world simply could not have been around for that long, due to the natural decay in our environment. This world, at the rate it naturally decays, could only have been a round a maximum of 15,000 years. However, you're denying all that by assuming we came from nothing, evolved over billions-trillions of years, (despite a lack of macro evolutionary evidence) mutated into a humanoid species, died, mutated again millions more years later, died, etc. until we somehow had learned a moral code. Then we somehow reproduced with those lower in the evolutionary cycle to create more of our kind. We shared our knowledge through communication (even though there's no source for the idea, even, of communication in your theory). Then we created diverse civilizations and cultures, created religion, then went back and destroyed our own moral internal system, claiming morality is relative. And this all happened in a dying world with a 25,000-30,000 years maximum lifespan? 3. I'm afraid I don't much understand this last argument. I've already spoken on my thoughts of relative truth. I know, personally, that there is only one truth. You can not tell me otherwise. I mean... you can... you just won't be correct. Haha. Seeing as next round is last, I'd encourage you to try and summarize as best as possible your position throughout this discussion/debate. I will do the same.