Jacobgunter started what I thought would be a great debate topic... Lets go from where he left off-

Nice. Good outline, very clear point to point and I appreciate that. Im not going to take anything personally. Its debate. it always get alittle underhanded and cruel in rounds. Outside of rounds though, its all good. Nice Rhyme... Maybe Ill make one too. Thanks for a great debate. You said "However, punishing a state (Utah) for just not using NCLB is Republican hogwash, thats not the kind of choke holding I meant. As I understand it (and you have stated it) Utah created their own program and did well... They should make the states use NCLB unless they come up with an idea that proves to be more successful, in small areas first then state wide later." Regardless of whether NCLB is R hogwash, it does punish any states that have another program that may be more successful. We are debating NCLB in its exact form. The punishing of states flows through the round, and we have to see that it is unacceptable. You said Now the difference in my statement and yours is nothing... except at the end, I offered a solution, where you did not. I did offer a solution. abolish NCLB and let the states decide. That sounds like a clear solution to me. You said Allow States to have their own method, and let them start in smaller regions and test the theory. I believe (as a democrat no less) in smaller government, less intrusion... But when it comes to school systems and education, I think the government needs a broader role. Granted, education may be one thing that the government should be especially involved in. However your argument is saying that its OK to try different policy in local areas. With NCLB, you cant do that without losing the states federal education funding. THerefore they cant try to do that without being punished. You said Stop saying NCLB in unconstitutional, it was voted in the Supreme Court not to be. Your opinion is here-say, the federal court said it is not, along with 32 state supreme courts. Granted, the supreme court ruled it constitutional. The only way they did it was arguing interstate commerce. This argument is used to increase the scope of the government. Also, just because they say it is constitutional, doesnt mean its true. If somebody passed a bill to limit ones freedom of religion and the supreme court said it was constitutional doesnt make it so. Keep in mind they also legalised slavery, and segregation, Japanese intern camps, etc. so its not like they are right all time. I agree that the same subjects are taught everywhere, but its the style by which you teach them. People in one state may do better with theory, in another state with practice. You said There is nothing wrong with a pass fail system. Everything is a pass fail system. When I took the ASVAB test, if I would have gotten under a 34 I would have failed and not been able to serve. When you take a field sobriety test, if you can blow under .08 you pass, if not you fail. Life is a pass fail system, so why wouldn't school testing be too? The only people I hear complaining about the pass fail system are on the losing end of it. School wise, it should definitely be pass/fail. But the students should be given the tools to pass, and the ones who fail should be given the help to redeem themselves. Cause trust me, school is the last time that anyone will care if you get left behind. Life is a lot harder. I agree that you either pass or fail a class, but you should be graded appropriately. If you only pass by one point, then you still passed, but are treated as a nearly failing school. If you only fail by one point, you should be treated as a barely failing school. A passing grade is a D in my school, but you wont go very far with it, so a passing grade doesnt mean a whole lot. Schools should be gaded on a scale, not on a pass-fail. Yes, I do blame a lot of the problems on politics. you yourself said everything is political, so I can blame everything on politics because you granted me that argument. I agree that people care about education, but the best way to care abou tthat is to do it at the local level by repealing NCLB dyankovich, dyankovich, oh you are a silly kind You supported a bad policy called No Child Left Behind You think the best way to run a school is with an idea that is way uncool You break the constitution, and all its great intent with the hopes of changing kids, for all our betterment But here I must say, that your arguments are full of folly And it is because of that, that I urge a vote for me Thanks for a great debate. Its the best Ive had so far. Peace Out! I also would like to say that I admire your serving in the Military. Kudos for that.