Jack Bauer is superior to Jason Bourne (David Webb)

"Except for the show never showed that he is taking any sort of medication. Argument is mute." It would be moot, not mute - and the point stands, Bauer never even considers this, people do take medication, they do get sick. Bauer is again tactically ignorant and acts as if he lives in a world of rainbows and fairies where none of this matters. And again, if his combat ability was even competent, let alone superior, he could have not had to resort to a potential for lethality when if Mason was killed it could end the success of the mission before it started - and besides that, what effect would that have on his wife and daughter if he was convicted of murdering a fellow agent. "Jason bourne had his girlfriend killed, that's a pretty great tactician there!" Seriously? Bauer's wife ring a bell, raped and killed - his daughter constantly kidnapped, almost raped a half a dozen times, etc. . "I'm pretty sure he knew the correct dose amount. Even if he didn't, obviously mason didn't die, and if he did, it would have been to help jack in his mission." The does amount is based on body type and metabolism, does he calculate it - no. If he did die how would that actually help, did you watch season one and two, Mason is integral to the development and resolution of both situations. Especially in season two where without Mason flying the plane Jack would have been dead. Plus ignoring all of this, Jack would be killing an innocent man, leaving the CTU with a loss of a resource because he has does not have the combat ability to subdue him. "The great thing about jack Bauer is that he is able to manage both his family and his job, as struggling as it my be. He is always able to save his family, and complete his job." Yes, he is definitely superior at this integration. His wife leaves him, he has an affair with another woman (who turns out to be a counter agent), he has his wife killed (by the woman he had an affair with - excellent judge of character), and his daughter is estranged from him for almost two years as she can not stand to look at him. This exposes her to threat of violent abuse, kidnap and possible sex-slave raping by a paranoid-hillbilly, and under constant treat of death from a gun toting madman in a mexican-stand off (season two) etc. . Yes, he deserves an award for superior parenting/husband. "Bauer did everything he could to make sure he got out alive, and succeeded in doing so." Yes as noted, by invoking the luck-of-bond. The point was that he is completely ignorant of even the most basic principles of tactical awareness, he leaves his blind spot open constantly, in most cases he never even checks it, he ignores second wave/back for hostiles, etc. . As noted, even a kid starting paintball is aware of these principles, they are b-a-s-i-c. If Jack did receive "extensive combat training" he either has suffered massive head trauma, or is was all delusion and in reality he was just with FPS Doug for all those years [1] "He trusts somebody to help him that he hardly even knows!" At that time Bourne has no conscious training, due to his memory loss his training only comes back in instinct. At that point he knows he has to get out of there and he should just take the car, but his morality will not let him harm an innocent woman to save himself - that is superior character/morality. If you want to talk about trust/character judgment, seriously - does it not stand out as a huge issues that Bauer trusts and has an affair with the woman who is a counter agent and ends up killing his wife? Superior judgment there obviously. Again, no tactical awareness and never considers she could be the mole, and never sets any counter intel to reveal it, this again is basic, very basic. "Not only does Bauer eliminate foes quickly and effectively, he does it in numerous amounts. This proves his overwhelming experience." It proves he can pwns newbs. Again, he never faces anyone with the level of skill and experience that Bourne has to face, nor does he face them how Bourne does, with no memory, no support, he just basically awakes in a world trying to kill him where everyone knows what is happening besides him - and still he survives. That defines superior conflict resolution. "Jason Bourne has a similar experience after the death of his girlfriend." Really? After Jack discovers his daughter is dead, he throws the mission objective out the window, he again leaves all of his tactical training behind him and he rushes headlong after the Drazen's (climax of season one) - which is exactly as they wanted, again showing how he is so trivially manipulated. Not only by his daughter, and wife, and Nina, but even the actual people he is trying to bring in. "Peer review falls vastly in superiority, to critic review ..." You need to actually provide warrant for these claims. Peer review is the standard for scientific development, the reason why science uses peer review is because peers are competent to be able to judge the quality of work - what is superior, just like peers are able to judge Bourne vs Bauer. The fact that some middle-age housewife feels Bauer is superior can in no way be used to advocate anything except that maybe Bauer is superior at exciting middle age housewives. Just consider this, if you needed an agent to succeed, would you ask other agents, operatives, etc. or would you ask an arm chair commando - even you know that your argument holds no substance. "If anyone aquanders superiority in this area, it would be Bourne, where he cannot detain two assassins quickly enough, where as bourne can subdue a man in way under a minute." Yes, except for all the ones that Bauer does not and again the level of threat is not even close. I can for example easily subdue a class of kindergarden students, my brother would have difficulty subduing his fellow SD instructor quickly who has an extensive knowledge of CQC, bare handed and armed. Thus by your argument I am superior as a combat agent to my brother. In short : -Bauer again and again shows complete ignorance of tactical awareness -Bauer is easily manipulated by family, friends and even the "bad guys" -Bauer gets his wife raped and killed, his daughter is constantly in danger, etc. -Bauer shows little to low combat ability (aside from the constant pimp-two-guns shooting) -Bauer attempts suicide (ref. Mason in the plane in season two), refuses missions, etc. - he avoids/fears conflict Bourne -Shows a level of tactical awareness which makes him an almost Nate Grey level precog -Has a level of combat ability that would make even the Undertaker (with Paul Bearer and Urn) fear a Wrestlemania bout -Exhibits a level of mental resolve and pure strength of will that is nothing short of superhuman -Is constantly praised (and feared) by his peers The arguments for Bauer (he is old and feeble and still he gets the job done, people who know nothing about anything think he is superior, etc. ) are as weak as the technical advisers for 24. To end, some of the key facts about Bourne which settle this confrontation : ------ Ordinary people have panic attacks. Chuck Norris has Jason Bourne attacks! Jason Bourne doesn't need to search the internet, he just stares a computer down until it gives him the information he needs. Jason Bourne once won a game of Connect 4 in 3 moves. Jason Bourne sleeps with a night light because the dark is afraid of Jason Bourne Vin Diesel can be rearranged to say "I end lives." Jason Bourne can be rearranged to say "Jason Bourne" which means the same thing. ---- [1] http://www.youtube.com...