METADEBATE!: Noam Chomsky vs. J.Kenyon

There is no criterion for successfully debating the issue besides a slew of quotes which will emerge no real victor. Furthermore this debate has a high chance of delving into unnecessary adhominems which will foster no true exchange of knowledge Noam Chromsky: "People talk about a return to Keynesianism, but that's because of a systematic refusal to pay attention to the way the economy works. There's a lot of wailing now about "socializing" the economy by bailing out financial institutions. Yeah, in a way we are, but that's icing on the cake. The whole economy's been socialized since -- well actually forever, but certainly since the Second World War. This mythology that the economy is based on entrepreneurial initiative and consumer choice, well ok, to an extent it is. For example at the marketing end, you can choose one electronic device and not another. But the core of the economy relies very heavily on the state sector, and transparently so. So for example to take the last economic boom which was based on information technology -- where did that come from? Computers and the Internet. Computers and the Internet were almost entirely within the state system for about 30 years -- research, development, procurement, other devices -- before they were finally handed over to private enterprise for profit-making. It wasn't an instantaneous switch, but that's roughly the picture. And that's the picture pretty much for the core of the economy. " Source: . http://www.chomsky.info... As my opponent can see, Chromsky makes few assertions which I will boil down into a list: 1. Spending money from taxation is the "core of the U. S. economy". 2. Computers and the Internet are "entirely within the state system". 3. Entrepreneurship and consumer spending is a myth. 4. Without states spending large amounts of taxpayer dollars, the internet would not exist nor would ever exist. Allow me to introduce some sense. Essentially the argument Noam is trying to make is that because the government utilized existing technology to create networks. They are responsible for the internet and all commerce done on i. Even just with this statement, a reasonable person would assume that J. Kenyon wouldn't be as unschooled. There are several flaws both on an educational basis as well as with logic: A. Claiming that an inventor produces all inventions off the original. A perfect analogy would be like saying that because the native americans made trails and paths in the woods (which was the first forerunner for the modern U. S. highway as well as the railroads, planes and all forms of transportation) that the native americans have a claim on all the commerce that was produced as a result of all U. S. transportation. Furthermore since the plain was invented in the U. S. and since paths were a forerunner for planes, then without a doubt the Indians were responsible for the creation of most of the United States and all the commerce produced from it since without roads, paths, and transportation none of it could have happened. Therefore the native americans are responsible for the GDP of the U. S. as well as all tourism that occurs as a result of planes which is core of the worlds economy. So one can clearly see that it was not government spending that is the core of the U. S. economy but really native americans. B. There are many more reasons for the internet than ARPNET. In reality though the ARPNET isn't the reason we have the internet, the real reason is entrepreneurs: # Ethernet - The physical communication technology underlying the Internet, Ethernet was created by Robert Metcalfe and David Boggs in 1973. # TCP/IP - In May, 1974, the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers (IEEE) published a paper titled "A Protocol for Packet Network Interconnection. " The paper's authors - Vinton Cerf and Robert Kahn - described a protocol called TCP that incorporated both connection-oriented and datagram services. This protocol later became known as TCP/IP. Email - Long before the World Wide Web, email was the dominant communication method on the Internet. Ray Tomlinson developed in 1971 the first email system that worked over the early Internet. None of these were through government spending but rather entrepreneurship, so not only is his logic incorrect, but also his basic premise which he uses through faulty logic. Source: . http://compnetworking.about.com... It is apparent from the above that not only does Noam Chomsky use ridiculous logic, but also does not understand what he is talking about in the first place. J. Kenyon has taken the time to research things he is ignorant of before presenting an opinion. Since Noam's hogwash is printed on his website, he clearly believes what he said in the interview. I'd venture to say that in any debate on this site regardless if Noam was aware of how style. Noam is both illogical and ignorant and per his interview gives his opinion about things he is ignorant of then publishes it. The voters of this site do not favor both ignorant and illogical people.