Abortion

==== On the contrary, I would say that the fetus does not posses it's own body ==== According to http://dictionary.reference.com..., Possession (the one that applies most to our current topic) is "the control over oneself, one's mind, etc." Now, a fetus can move itself. A fetus has simple thought patterns. A fetus can tell itself to kick. A fetus possesses its body. Why do you think that the fetus does not posses its own body? - Let me rephrase the question: Would you enjoy being killed in a way similar to that of a fetus? - ==== First, I deny the premise of a fetus' humanity. Fetus' are not able to survive if independent from one particular source of nutrients. Humans are. ==== Wrong. Humans cannot survive without nutrients we sap from earth. We need the sun, the earth, foood, etc. We aren't self-sufficient. If you base humanity partially on the ability to sustain itself without outside help, then you consider humans un-human. ==== Second, humans can, at least in a primitive way, express emotions which other humans can interpret. Fetus' have never been shown to do so. ==== So, emotion = human and/or sentience? Well, if you look at the video I posted in the argument above, I think you can clearly see the expression of pain and despair on its face. If not, either a) get reading glasses, or b) watch the video in HD. ==== Secondly, however, and this is a point I will refer to later, there is a difference between what I will call a willing and an unwilling parasite. If someone wishes to take care of people who would not be able to do so by themselves, that is fine. But when the person in question has no choice in the matter but is obligated by law to maintain that parasite, there is an issue. ==== A person is not always forced to hold that pregnancy. There are many other options, such as vitro-fertilization. If there is a person who, by law, is killed without a say nor care, there is an issue. I understand that there are people out there who cannot support babies. They can adopt, but they cannot kill. ==== So you are certain that there is absolutely no situation, no matter how outlandish, ill-conceived or just plain unlikely, that would make it moral to kill a baby? ==== Yes. No one has the right to kill another. If the baby is born and the mother dies (Unlikely in the US), it is tragic -- but life for the child can go on. Let me explain... an abortion can kill any single baby to twins and beyond. Therefore, we can conclude that there are more deaths to abortion than being forced to carry the child. If the baby dies, in my opinion, it is worse -- the mother has had an opportunity to live and experience life, whereas the child has not. ==== Personally? No I would not. When I am talking about abortion, I talking about the time fairly early in the fetus' development, not just before it comes out the womb, which is something of a gray area(what is the actual moment of birth?). ==== Well, even an hour before birth, the baby is dependent on the mother -- and by your own definition, not human. You may not do it personally, but your logic could allow you. (Sorry... by seconds I mean minutes... it was ate at night! :D) ==== First, what you are saying is that the relationship only becomes symbiotic AFTER the fetus is born, not during the period when it can be aborted, which is what we are talking about. ==== Well, I would like to point out that the fetus will usually become beneficial. A baby cannot benefit, but with time, s/he could become productive, moral, and helpful to society. ==== Nope. You are perfectly human. I am not saying dependency removes humanity, I am saying it removes a lot of rights (for instance, while [if] you are under the age of 18, at least in the United States, basically your entire life is subject to legal parental control). My arguments against including fetus' as human are elsewhere. ==== Tell me, why did you not answer my question on the earlt-born: What about a baby born early? Are they not dependent on their little oxygen tanks? Without them they would die! Dos this mean they cannot receive the rights of a human? (This can also go for an elderly person with breathing issues.) http://www.abortiontv.com... abortionno.org Since my opponent wants alternative reasons not to have an abortion, I shall provide another: The health of the woman. Here is a basic overview of consequences of abortion: By Mrs. Ann Warner [ Visit http://www.christianliferesources.com... in addition] Physical Effects: Miscarriages Ectopic Pregnancies Perforated Uterus/Infections Nervousness Frigidity Sterility/Stillbirths Shock Fever/Cold Sweats Loss of Other Organs Psychological Effects: Unfulfillment/Sense of Loss Loss of Confidence in Decision-Making Intense Interest in Babies Loss of Interest in Sexual Contact Feeling of Dehumanization Feelings of Being exploited Flashback of the Actual Abortion Guilt/Suicidal Impulses Anniversaries (of Actual Due Date and Abortion Date) Eating Disorders Sleeping Disorders Low Self-Esteem Fear of Something Happening to One of their Other Children Problem with Trusting Another Partner Fear of Never Being Given Another Pregnancy Depression/Anxiety Interruption of the Bonding Process with Present and/or Future Children Survival Guilt Alcohol/Drug Abuse http://www.nrlc.org...