Once Saved, Always Saved

"So your task is twofold. * Prove the existence of God and validity of the Bible, existence of salvation and Messiah-ship of Jesus." I expected this to be an inter-christian debate, as the argument is strictly within the bounds of the Bible, as Salvation would be a non-issue if God didn't exist. Let's please assume that the Bible is in fact 100% true, which would relieve me of waging two huge arguments in 2 rounds. We can have another debate on your first asterisk later. If you will temporarily concede this, we shall move onward in the argument. So, now that the issue is essentially one fold only: " * Present some argument as to why this silly doctrine isn't Biblical when the text of the Bible seems to clearly disagree. " Okay, as you have haphazardly listed multiple verses, my first job is largely to explain each verse in the way it was intended. Defense before offense. " Matthew 13:18-23, the parable of the sewer of seeds: those without roots quickly fall away. " This is clearly not anything challenging eternal security. Those WITHOUT roots refers to those who arent even saved yet. As stated in my initial argument, once one has TRULY come to Christ, he shall not be denied salvation. The last verse in the passage you mentioned, Matthew 13:23, says "...this is the man who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit." in this particular parable, only the last man was ever truly saved. read it again. "1 Corinthians 3:16" You misquoted this. You actually combined and misinterpreted verses 16-17. it says ~~Do you not know that you are a temple of God?... If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are. ~~ This is saying if SOMEONE destroys US (the temple of God) HE will be destroyed. Not "if we defile ourselves, he would destroy us." Plus, even if this could be interpreted that way, Destroyed does not indicate taking away salvation, simple ending life on earth. "1 John 2:24" ~~Make sure that the message you heard from the beginning lives in you. If that message lives in you, you will also live in the Son and in the Father. ~~ Carefully read this. Like 2 Peter 1:10, it says be sure you're a Christian. If the message is living in you, you will be saved. It doesn't say be sure the message keeps living in you. All translations agree. See: http://bible.cc... "James 1:13-14" God doesn't tempt us. If we are tempted, and it leads to lust, it is our own sin, and as the bible clearly teaches, sin leads to death. But Christ brings life. Death does not imply loss of salvation. The lost will go to hell for their sins. the elect are forgiven for their sins. "Matthew 24:13,24,25." Verse 13 states an obvious fact, If you endure, you will be saved. Well all those who are truly saved will endure, as I will show later when i get to post MY verses. 24 and 25 refer to the end times when there will be very persuasive liars who will attempt to lead people astray. many of those who thought they were christians will be lead away. the actual elect will not. this verse says "if possible, lead the elect astray" but it is in fact impossible. The verse doesnt say the elect WILL be led astray. "Luke 8:5-8,11-15 " this is luke's telling of Mat 13:18-23. I've already rebutted this. See above. "Luke 12:45,46" Be sure to read the verse before and after this. It is saying those who know are familiar with the bible/will of God but continue to ignore it will be punished more than those who disobey "in ignorance." nothing about losing salvation here. "Luke 14: 34-35" if we live worldly lives, we lose our good influence and are essentially useless for leading the lost to Christ (christians often call this "losing your witness). however, these people's salvation is not at stake. "Luke 15:13,21,24 certainly doesn't refer to losing salvation. we ARENT worthy of being called God's children. That's the beauty of Christianity. The son was lost as in he was unsaved, then he was brought home (saved). not referring to eternal security or lack thereof. You have listed so many irrelevant verses (to this issue) it's taking forever. "Luke 22:31,32" irrelevant. "Romans 9, 10, and 11" are taking about Jews and Gentiles. The Jews were the first, the Gentiles came after. Not referring to loss of salvation. Many of the "if's" are theoretical and wont occur. Your 1st Cor passages are all either irrelevant or support my side of the argument, (eg. 1 cor 10:12). Gal says "would be" not "are." Your Phil passage is irrelevant. The Coll passage is similar to those rebutted above. Remember, you have to be truly saved to never be lost. those who come close but not all the way can fall away. 1st Thess, ditto. 2nd Thess, ditto, your 1st timothy passages are again irrelevant or referring to those not fully saved or hypothetical situations. 2nd tim verses were all referring to those not yet saved. Your Hebs passages are all as above except chapter 6, which i will have to get to later. The James passages are reiterations of others i have rebutted. Lol, the 1st peter passage simply says the word salvation but does not refer to losing it at all. the 2nd peter passages again are about those not ever actually saved. 1st john was already talked about, or a reiteration of it. the Revelation passages are irrelevant. Let me explain Rev 3:16 because it is often brought up in debates concerning salvation. Spit you out of my Mouth DOES not indicate a loss of salvation. something unpleasant tasting is spit out of the mouth. it indicates God's displeasure in mediocre christians. "Rev 22:18-19" The word of God is living and cannot be destroyed or altered, it's impossible, so you could say that warning is unnecessary. "Hebrews Six" If we could lose our salvation, then it would be lost forever, because Christ only died once. Hebrews 6:4-6 is an often misunderstood passage, which strongly supports the doctrine of eternal security in two ways: it implies that Christ's sacrifice must be sufficient for all sins, and states that if it were possible for a person to lose their salvation, it would be forever lost. According to this passage, if a person could do something that cost them their salvation (which they cannot), then it would be "impossible" for them to be re-redeemed. So all these verses have been addressed. they are either irrelevant or taken out of context. re mention any that you feel are very significant and that i should further address. Now for MY verses that i would like you to address: John 10:27-29. No man can pluck them out of my Father's hand. Romans 8:35-39 NOTHING can separate us from God. Romans 11:29 God's calling is irrevocable. John 6:37-39 I shall not cast any out. Ephesians 1:13-14 We are sealed with the Holy Spirit, now possessions of God. Jude 1:24-25 God keeps us from stumbling away. 1 Peter 1:3-5 Our salvation can never perish, spoil, or fade. Believers are born again (regenerated) when they believe (John 3:3; Titus 3:5). For a Christian to lose his salvation, he would have to be un-regenerated. The Bible gives no evidence that the new birth can be taken away. (d) The Holy Spirit indwells all believers (John 14:17; Romans 8:9) and baptizes all believers into the Body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13). For a believer to become unsaved, he would have to be "un-indwelt" and detached from the Body of Christ. I might add that, in Biblical times, those who were adopted could never be disowned, unlike regular children, who could be disowned. once we are adopted into God's family, we're always in it. As far as your last "practical" argument: if you're truly saved, you want want to use God as a credit card. It's something the Spirit does within you, and frankly, without that, it's hard to comprehend all this. I'm out of room to type, so I'll have to stop here. The Bible offers many more supporting passages, though. Please be open-minded on this.