Charmandar is so much better then Bulbasaur

I would once AGAIN like to remind the audience that the instigator started this debate on the notion concerning which Pokemon was better as well as the notion that the Pokemon we were comparing were none other than Charmander and Bulbasaur. I've already done my job on upholding my stance when it concerned these notions. In both the previous round and this one, PRO has gone against the original intentions of this debate, thus, you are to consider this when voting. >>>>NOW ONTO THE ACTUAL ROUND: Borrowing arguments out of the comment section, eh? In that case, the instigator should consider my own submission in the comment section. I repeat: 1) Reread the conditions I posted for Venasaur using sleep powder. Venasaur would use it ONLY if Charizard were to get into its range (which is guaranteed to happen if he uses FLY, which, once more, shouldn't be up for discussion given that the discussion concerns charmander) . Essentially, it would be the equivalent to me throwing a smoke bomb to the floor the moment you were within 10 feet of me. I wouldn't need accuracy to ensnare you in the smoke as I could ensnare you in the smoke even if I was blind. Now if I were to have argued that Venusasaur were to be using this attack in the same manner it were using solar beam or its other attacks which can be used in a sniping manner, your rebuttal would be legit. Of course, even to assume your argument has legitimacy, Venasaur still has sweet scent up its sleeve. Thus, to make up for the lowered accuracy, it could use sweet scent to lower Charizard's evasive prowess. 2) I've already discussed the lack of elemental advantage. He makes up for that with the status defying attacks such sleep power, poison powder, sweet scent and leech seed. In addition, it can use synthesis to HEAL itself via synthesis. All in all, a pretty good trade." >>>>NOW ONTO THE ACTUAL CONTRIBUTIONS MADE BY THE INSTIGATOR: RE: "As my opponent is well aware, Pokemon's natural moves (moves they learn by evolution) are considered natural talents. However, Pokemon are physically able to use certain TMs. For example, if you were in a fight and you found a sword to use, that is not considered a natural source. You did not 'learn' the sword. You found it and it increased your own abilities. Thus, the sword and TMs are alike." Is that so? So if I were to post a topic which states "The New England Patriots are better than Tennessee Titans", according to my opponent, I could simply argue that the The New England Patriots are better because they could come across a machine gun and gun down the opposing team. Given how erroneous this analogy is, he has only further established that TMS are irrelevant in this debate. RE:"My opponent mentioned that most of Charizard's moves are not long-range. For example, Flamethrower is considered a long-range attack. Fly is considered a long-range attack. You cannot say that if Charizard is Flying, that it is not a long-range weapon." PRO cites Flamethrower as being a long range attack just as I expected he would. However, what he fails to remember is that flame thrower is simply nothing more than a barrage of flames from CHarizards mouth. In other words, it's the equivalent to a human being exhaling air as long as possible (except with range proportionate to Charizard's size). As seconds pass, the air weakens. Exhaling or spitting something is not quite as effective as actually throwing it or firing with a cannon of some sort (this can't be said for solar beam or razor leaf). Plus, if you look at a real flame thrower, you'll note the same thing. You can't snipe people with it. As for the technique known as FLY, this isn't a long range technique as it requires Charizard to come into contact with his/her opponent. Hence, the heart of the first half of my argument on why Venasaur would win, given that Venasaur could simply WAIT for Charizard to get close enough so that he/she may cast one of his status effecting techniques. If anything, my smoke bomb example portrays this argument better than any other. Of course, we must once again note that Charizard is not Charmander, thus, this point made by my point is irrelevant. RE: "Bulasaur's (and Venuasur's) Poison or Sleep powder is indeed short-range. Very short-range. He could not attack Charizard if he did not come close. And Venusaur's powders are slower to use than Charizard's speed attacks such as Fly. another long-range attack is Wing attack. That is an attack that is harmful to the opposing Pokemon." I wholeheartedly agree that Poison or sleep powder is indeed short range, however, considering that I never made the argument that it wasn't (in fact, my argument centered around the fact that it WAS), I'm not sure why PRO wishes to center his attention on such a matter. As for Venasaurs powder being slower than Charizard's attacks, this is baseless conjecture. If PRO does not provide evidence that the actual process of dispelling the powder (in other word's, citing mobility stats is irrelevant) is slower than Charizard's wing attacks, you are to dismiss his claim entirely. "My opponent also mentioned Venusaur's Synthesis attack. As all are aware, in the Pokemon games, if you were to use the same attack over and over again, you would run out of PP. In the 'real world' (or in the anime), Venusaur would be unable to move whilst using Sythesis, thus giving Charizard and opportunity to attack with a fatal Flamethrower or any fire attack." And? If Charizard were to use its special attacks, it would run out of PP as well. That's not the issue. The fact of the matter is that whenever Venasaur is injured, it can simply heal itself. Thus, this would be a particularly long winded battle even in Venasaur's favor. As for the anime's version of synthesis, I've described the conditions for Venasaur making use of synthesis (to which PRO has still not responded). Synthesis would only be used if Charizard were to keep its distance while fighting Venasaur. Finally, I'd like to once again remind you all why insist they are equal. #1. They have weaknesses that cancel each other out. Originally, the topic was simply centered around "who is best." Not who'd win in a fight. #2. Even if we go by who wins in a fight, we must note that the two Pokemon's physical stats balance out (something else which PRO hasn't address, therefore drops). #3. Whereas PRO brags about one Pokemon's destructive abilities, I've countered by pointing out the other's status effecting techniques. None of these techniques rely on brute strength or be canceled out by brute strength and are hence favorable against just about any Pokemon. All three of this points would suggest that the two Pokemon were equal. PS: I made a note of there being no such Pokemon listed as "Charmandar." It would seem PRO proved me right as the 4th pokemon on the pokedex is not CharmandAr. Rather, this pokemon is named "Charmander." :D