It is a good and holy act for Christians to honor Mary and ask her intercession #2

As we move into this final round, I will first address what seems to be the most important argument in this debate and then proceed to the others. “The Biblical distinction between intercessory prayer and the Heavenly Person of Intercessor is that intercessory prayer is made between mortals here on earth and that The Intercessor is in Heaven making intercession between man and God. *Please note that my opponent has provided NO scriptural evidence for praying to Mary or any other Saint ONCE they have gone into Heaven. ” Note: I agree that ‘the Heavenly Person of Intercessor’ is solely Christ since it is him alone who can achieve God’s forgiveness for us through his sacrifice. However, the heavenly saints can fit my oponent’s category of ‘intercessory prayer’. Is a person robbed of their ability to pray to God on another’s behalf robbed of them when they enter heaven? The answer to this question will answer most of the important arguments made throughout this round. I have pointed out that the holier a person is the more powerful their prayer is (see Intercession C1 P3) and my opponent never contested this. Thus, if God likes to listen to holy people pray on earth, then why would He not listen to even holier people in heaven. After all, “He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive. ” (Luke 20:38) My opponent’s sole argument against this has been that I did not bring up specific Scriptural passages proving my point. However, my opponent did agree in round 1 that we can use arguments “either from Scripture or reason”. Thus, this argument is a valid one even in the absence of specific Scriptural quotes, and an unaddressed argument must in all fairness be considered a true argument. Though I believe I have sufficiently proved my point, I will show a couple bible verses which have sufficed to justify praying to the saints for many Christians over the past two millennia (including Origen, Clement of Alexandria, Cyril of Jerusalem, St. Basil, etc. ) so that the viewers can be aware that there is indeed valid Scriptural grounds for accepting the intercession of the saints. . http://www.catholic.com... "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3–4). (Thus we see that the saints, i. e. those in heaven, do pray to God even in heaven) "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven" (Matt. 18:10). (Here it is implied that if you stand before the face of God then that is enough to be able to ask his intercession. The saints stand before the face of God since they are in heaven, so they must be able to intercede for us) With this main question now fully addressed, I will address the rest of the round, especially my opponent’s round 4 arguments. Honoring MaryContention 1: Example of ScriptureP1- We should follow the example of ChristP2- We should follow the example of holy Scriptural charactersP3- Christ honored Mary by making her the Mother of GodP4- Elizabeth and the Angel Gabriel honored MaryC1- We should follow the examples of Christ, Gabriel and Elizabeth and honor Mary My opponent has not made a consistent argument against this contention so it stands to prove my point. Contention 2: Scriptural ProphesyP1- In Luke 1:48 Mary says that 'all generations will call me blessed'. P2- Christians should follow the commands and advice of ScriptureC1- Christians should call Mary blessed (i. e. honor her) 'for all generations' “Calling Mary 'blessed by all generations' and 'full of grace' honours God as He alone makes a person blessed or full of grace. So to imbue Mary with Grace and blessings of her OWN is idolatrous and so sinful worship. ” I agree that calling Mary blessed does honor God. However it honors Mary as well. To honor one does not mean we cannot honor the other. Thus, we should fulfill Mary’s own prophesy and honor God by honoring her. Asking Mary's IntercessionContention 1: prayer is goodP1- Asking for others to pray for you is a good thingP2- The holier a person is, the more help their prayers will beP3- Mary was a holy follower of ChristC1- it is a good thing to ask Mary to pray for us Contention 2: Christ Listens to MaryP1- In John 2 Christ changes water into wine at the request of his motherC1- Christ will do things at the request of his mother which he may not have otherwise doneC2- Mary's prayers can help us Both of these contentions will stand or fall on the argument I addressed earlier. Now I will address the five other arguments which my opponent has introduced in this debate. Christ is only Intercessor “My opponent simply fails to address the distinction between mortals on earth praying for one another and a Heavenly Intercessor betwixt man and God, which the Bible clearly teaches is Jesus Christ alone. ” My opponent’s whole argument under this heading initially was that making Mary our ‘intercessor’ makes her take the place of Christ who is the ‘Intercessor’. As I said earlier, and my opponent did not refute, Mary’s intercession is completely different from the kind of supreme intercession we get from Christ. Thus, there is no problem here. Women and Authority “My opponent simply fails to address the distinction between mortals on earth praying for one another and a Heavenly Intercessor betwixt man and God, which the Bible clearly teaches is Jesus Christ alone. *Please note that my opponent has avoided my scriptural evidence for women and Authority. ” My opponent is still assuming that for Mary to intercede for us she needs some authority (which I have shown that she doesn’t). I don’t need Scripture here, because I am consistent with my opponent’s Scripture. Please note how my opponent continuously asks for Scripture where it is not needed. Virginity of Mary “Here my opponent has avoided my argument by no longer talking about honouring but switching to worship; My (unaddressed) argument, is that by not honouring the facts of ANYONE'S life as they are simply presented we do not honour them and their truth: Hence, when we willfully ignore facts in order to exult someone THEN this is idolatrous worship. *Please note that my opponent has avoided addressing my scriptural evidence for Mary's lack of virginity. ” Once again, Mary’s virginity is a topic which is outside the bounds of this particular debate. If the bible does indeed teach that Mary was not a virgin, then this means that Catholics are stupid not idolatrous. We honor Mary mainly for other reasons than her virginity, so this argument should be ignored. Luke 11:27-28 & Matthew 12:47-49 Blessed are those who find wisdom, those who gain understanding, for she is more profitable than silver and yields better returns than gold. She is more precious than rubies; nothing you desire can compare with her. (Proverbs 3:13-15) The Christian is called to be knowledgeable, so please give these passages the proper consideration. Notice that my opponent has no rebuttal to my explanations of these bible verses. He merely urges you to ignore my points, and thus drops them himself. In conclusion, we see that Mary does indeed deserve to be honored for the important part she played in salvation history, that she can help us to reach her Son through her prayers, and that Catholics would never worship a human being instead of God.