Faith + good works = salvation

Presentation of new statements Yes I agree with you in the sense that faith apart from works is probably dead, for I don’t think there are any saved that will not do them. For why would a soldier sign up for the army, yet plan on not doing any fighting? What person becomes a Christian, yet plan on not loving the Lord? I know not of any. Works, righteousness, love, and fearing God is just all icing on the cake. I believe that they are all caused through our faith, but salvation is through faith not by works, works should follow. By Grace through Faith (Ephesians 2:1-9) Your confusing “purpose” with “salvation”. We are saved through faith, but the purpose of the saved is to do good works. When you say “faith + good works = salvation” I interpret this to mean if you die without doing a good work, you’re going to hell. I don’t think that is necessary true, for I think that if a man accepts Christ, but dies minutes later without having time to whip out a good work, there is still hope. I used the criminal on the cross as an example. I don’t disagree with you that the saved will and should do good works, it’s just not what they’ll saved through. As I said, Colossians 3:23-25 The thing is that it says, “knowing that from the Lord you will receive…” I think it’s telling it to people that are already saved, people that already have the reward. It’s saying because God is saving you, you should do good works. Not that you’re saved by them. Which I do agree with, you should do good works If we are righteous in the eyes of the Lord, we will be awarded. If we are wicked in the eyes of the Lord, we will be punished. I prefer the term discipline when it comes to the saved, instead of punished. For when you and I do wickedness, it doesn’t necessary follow that we forfeit our salvation. Did not King David commit wickedness with Bathsheba? Yet do you think he is unsaved? No. But he was certainly disciplined. Grace is no longer Grace This verse is speaking in the context of Jews that went to Babylonian captivity for their rebellion against him. If you don’t do what is pleasing to God, He’ll probably discipline you by taking away many of your gifts. In this case of the Jews, it can mean losing some of your freedoms. While not necessary meaning losing your salvation. We SHOULD cooperate with God, for his disciplines can be pretty severe sometimes. A case of salvation through Faith When Christ said let your light shine before men, I know that he did not mean “Go, act like a criminal. Then get nailed on a cross so you can tell others about me.” The ‘thief’ as you call had no light, he had no honor. It would of made NO onlookers think that this man is King. The thief is more of the lowly of spirit, the humble, than one that has light to give to God. All he did basically is just move his lips. That’s not what I’m picturing as a good work. I'm thinking of something bigger, like curing poverty, or curing cancer. Case of “Faith + Good works” Failed Salvation. Miracles are works done by God, not by men. Moses won’t enter into heaven because of those miracles. None of them were done by Moses but by the power of God. For if Moses said those miracles were done by him, God would probably be very wrathful with him for Moses credits himself and not God. God parted the waters, God had the serpent heal, God made water flow through rocks, NOT Moses. I do agree with you that there is a difference. I’m starting to wonder if the definitions for “good works” aren’t aligned with the Biblical definitions. For when the Bible talks about good works, I think its talking in terms of larger works that are good. Like curing cancer is a work that is good, but it may not necessary be done to please God, for all we know it could be done by the hands of a non-believer. So in a sense Sola Fide is an accurate doctrine, if used by the biblical definitions. But probably not with the ones for this debate. You’ve defined “good works” in such a way that you’re almost saying that the thief did a good work by the things he said on the cross in front of the onlookers. If this is so, the definitions could accept works that are soooo weak, that by simply believing that God exists could be considered a good work. Isn’t believing in him something that pleases the divine? Paul was probably not talking about this when they were talking about works. We can either choose to draw close to God or move away from him. Still why say “Complete submission to either the divine (or the world).” Why not simply say “Complete submission to God.” It's not just about having faith, it's about living by faith. According to James 2:14-26, what prevents our faith from being dead faith? That is talking in the context of people that “live by faith” for some time, yet don’t do good works. “What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.” (James 2:14–17, ESV). If you have your heart set on not doing good works, your faith will probably not save you for it does have its limits. But if you die and are unable to do a good work in time (thief on the cross) I do believe there is hope. The doctrine of sola fide as I understand is saying what salvation comes through. Though your faith. It is not a position that states you should not do good works, but by which it comes through. If you have faith, you should certainly try to do good works, fools don't.