Morality does not require the existence of a god

Again, a well devised reply. My thanks for your support as well. 1. I take your response here to mean that modern day morality is nothing more than the evolved instincts that were at one point essential to the survival of our species. My counterpoint is that without the idea of God, in one of its various forms throughout time, the evolved morality that we enjoy as a Human society would not exist. I believe that without the introduction of that which is higher than human, ie god, the society would not have adopted the social norms that we have come to depend upon. I say this because no human truly believes that a king or ruler is smarter or has better ideas about the way society should be. For example, the authors of the code of ur-nammu and the code of hammurabi both claimed that the laws were decreed by a god. Whether or not an actual deity gave these laws to the rulers is not relevant. What is relevant is that both rulers knew that the society as a whole would require a divinity figure in order to accept these rules. I concede the point that morals are not objective. However, I maintain that no societal rules were handed down by rulers and were instead attributed to gods. Societies from the beginning have required god to make their rules because they don't trust their leaders to do so. Our modern day society has attempted to change this by giving trust to leaders but only in two or four year periods; the end of which time the society as a whole can change the leader in order to change they way they are governed. This is perhaps indicative of a change in where society now puts its' faith. However, the current laws and morals sprung directly from the religious upbringing of the leaders involved. 2. While the term"golden rule" or "golden law" did originate in the 1670s, it is found in virtually all religious texts. The passage in the bible that was put forward by Jesus was just an example, the golden rule or a form of it if found in Confucianism, Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, and early Christianity. You stated that "The fact that men CLAIMED that these rules came from god just seems to be par for the course for men attempting to persuade other men to follow the rules they made up." This further demonstrates my point that without the widespread belief in a god figure, none of the aforementioned sets of societal laws would have been accepted by society. 3. I certainly see your point that the writings of all bygone eras seem to be antiquated. However, this effect does not usurp the reality that humans utilized these laws that were set forth by one god or another to live by and raise their children by. Even if the children professed that god did not exist, their belief in what is good and bad was developed based on the teachings of the now non-existent god. Therefore, their morality would not exist without god. 4. I agree that the extension of instincts will naturally be morality in the higher lifeforms when they evolve. My counterpoint is that in order for one of those newly evolved societies to standardize acceptable behavior, they will be forced to invent a god figure and attribute those laws to the new god. This is due to the supposition posed in the first point. ie. " I say this because no human truly believes that a king or ruler is smarter or has better ideas about the way society should be." Simply replace human with any of the other higher lifeforms and the point is still made. I will conclude by quoting you, " In short, the belief in morals being handed down by the gods HAS improved their acceptance by the common man." In this phrase you make my argument for me. The actual existence of a god handing down laws is not our debate in my mind. It is instead the fact that humans would not have developed their standard morality with "thinking" that an omnipotent being gave us these laws. I hate to think of myself as being part of your "herd mentality" but the truth of the matter is that for a society to move towards a common goal, ie lawfulness, the herd must agree with the rule maker. To achieve the agreement, rulers have put forth laws that were from "god" so that the common man would accept these rules. Therefore, morality would not exist without god or at least the idea of god.