L_M Classic (UTW Tournament) Grand Finale. Feverish V Puck

http://www.youtube.com... Thanks to Feverish for a challenging final! Are Sentry's powers practically limitless? Not really. Sentry's status in Marvel Universe: deceased. Sentry depowered by: being hit by ship. http://img843.imageshack.us... Should Sentry have limitless powers? Depends - his super level feats are galactic level; Sentry is a being that needs to psionically absorb sunlight (see R1) - since the feats Feverish wishes to use appear on the galactic level - it follows then that he requires massive amounts of solar absorption - something he doesn't get on Earth (hence Marvel's "normal" Sentry level) and consequently something unavailable to Feverish's Sentry. Note the prior rounds where I made this point repeatedly. Sentry dies on Earth, where his power is limited. Sentry's super level feats do not occur on Earth. There is a clear relevance to Sentry's location and power level (see prior rounds). Do I dispute "the quote"? No. My argument was that Sentry *as normal* is X level as defined by Marvel, supported by comics and as expressed by the grid. The corollary to that was - should Feverish wish to use ‘not normal Sentry' such power levels disqualify Sentry from the tournament (Feverish himself puts Sentry's power on equal to the most powerful being in Marvel Universe - Galactus -, banned at this tournament). The second corollary argument was has Feverish shown that his wished power level translates to the battle field? The answer is no. Feverish's singular lack of defining Sentry's powers is his problem. He concedes that "million suns" was a verbal device much like "man of steel", it fails to adequately to describe anything concrete and Feverish continually fails to define what his power level was in regards to energy projection. In addition, there was a distinct issue with translating that into the Sentry suicide attack i.e. it does not follow that Sentry dying = explosive force of any level let alone one of ‘undefined level' attack. The only relevant information Feverish includes to this attack came last round: "The Sentry can generate light, heat, force, and other forms of energy as powerful blasts and explosions of a yellow color... The maximum power of these blasts is unknown." Here Feverish admits by it's usage he has no idea what Sentry's power level is in regards to explosive force (that's the only relevant force in his suicide attack, since that was his argument). So what do we have to go on then? The power grid. Which clearly defines Sentry's powers in terms of explosive force/energy output. None of the super feats Feverish lists has anything to do with explosive energy either - all we have is a clearly defined article on what that level is, and it's not that an impressive level overall. So, have I disagreed with the wikia article? Not at all. I simply argue it is contextual (and the evidence backs this up). It is however Feverish's argument that he wishes to use ‘the wikia is right till I want it to be wrong'. Can Sentry move ahead of the time line? Not here. There is no "free" timeline prior to the battles start to move ahead into. The start of the battle is time = 0. What speed does Feverish use? R1 he doesn't indicate any speed, R2 he does however: "bear in mind that Sentry can fly to the sun and back in minutes, thereby surpassing the speed of light" - so I'm not sure what Feverish wished to argue other than ‘I want to use him to go faster than light' - the R4 retcon is simply that, a retcon of a prior argument about Sentry's speed. To state otherwise is the argument ‘Sentry moved at the speed I want in R4.' We then have the additional problem of evidence for Sentry's speed *on Earth*. The wikia provides a very specific speed, from very specific feats that determine Sentry's speed on Earth, and light speed isn't it. The speed Sentry can fly on Earth is defined at "5 miles a second" - plenty of time for Spiral to teleport, and my teams defences to be in play otherwise. Do molecules moving *ahead of the timeline* constitute as time travel? Certainly. Is sentry's level banned? Yes, see Galactus. Is omnipotence the defining characteristic? No. Sailor moon characters, Silver Surfer, Squirrel Girl, Dr Strange the list goes on. None of these are omnipotent, they do however have vast powers and none are gods. L-M defines what he constitutes as a god, not that god is what constitutes solely as banned (traits is plural after all - see R1 link for list; nor is omnipotence even in that god list the defining characteristic given Thanos' multiple defeats even with the infinity gauntlet). Spiral's teleport is clearly indicated to be near instant. Nowhere is there any image of preparation, nor any need for preparation. The images clearly show between panel speed effects for the teleport use and on panel speed effects for the teleport use (i.e. my argument is consistent). "two panels to be connected and on the same timeline, there must clearly be a transition from one to the other." Yes it's the same timeline, the events occur in a linear fashion - the *effect* of using between panels is to introduce speed into a static format. Feverish contends the Beast image is about preparation, and I disagree. Beast is talking. Beast finishes. Next panel Spiral is gone. There is no indication or sign that any preparation was occurring (and the other images agree!). Again Feverish ignores the DP image that shows the exact same technique. Even so, at Sentry's speed of 5 miles a second it is ample time to execute before he arrives. Some of Spiral's complex spells require preparation e.g. cross dimensional travel (if Feverish thinks any of the images I linked show ritual dancing then he is wrong - only complex spells require complex actions, and the images clearly show no such preparation needed - neither dance or her swords are needed). Are her teleports tricky? Not shown anywhere and Feverish's arguments are simple conjecture without any backing at all i.e. a lot of ‘should' arguments without any basis. Spiral's teleport skills are defined by the comics where she is in, and nothing I've linked has Feverish used to support his claims, nor provided anything himself (essentially asking me to disprove a negative) and the images I link show no such issues - she teleports in direct combat (Rogue) after all. Does Spiral time travel? No. There is a difference between no time and moving faster than time (e.g. Sentry) or travelling directionally in time e.g. to the future or past, none of which Spiral does. All teleporters work in this fashion, a transition of location within a null time frame, and teleporting isn't banned. Engineer/Mr Sinister both engaged defences for my team at my behest. Their precognition of anything from Feverish's team is not a requisite, or every battle would be each team standing around. Engineer's defences that can block heavy solar attacks - Feverish never argued that Sentry's attack would defeat this once I introduced it. Again, Sinister can erect a psychic forcefield to cover my team and again Feverish never argued how Sentry would break a psychic barrier. Feverish also never argues that DP and Sage would not survive either (last round). Sentry's attack is a futile one, resulting in his own death and nothing more. Never argued was the Monkey evidence regarding fire and being hit (I provided the evidence as asked, direct form his source). Nor that Engineer would easily defeat them resulting in Monkey's removal from play. Feverish also never contends that Sinister would not gain easy control of Spawn in the psychic plane, resulting in his removal. He never argues that the ultimate demise of his team's ships would not occur if Engineer is on the field, nor that his street level members would be easily disposed of. Thanks to Feverish, L-M, the Judges and of course my team: http://img843.imageshack.us...