Solarman's Neo-con Republican picks (Romney McCain Bush) hurt our country through supporting the war

Well done, Solarman, this has been an even better exchange than I had hoped for. Putting our current debate aside for a moment, I am curious as to why you are the most losingest debater I have seen yet on this website. You are obviously quite skilled, and perhaps it is a combination of your strong opinions and the inefficiencies in the voting standards on here that are to blame for your tremendously bad winning percentage. I have a losing record myself, despite the fact that I usually better my opponents, and I am quite disappointed in many of the voting turnouts in my debates. I lose debates where the other side concedes, forfeits arguments, and simply cannot and will not address my points. It seems that if you want to make a debate to open people's minds and go against the status quo, you are more likely to simply lose in the votes because people won't accept what you have to say. With that out of the way, let us continue. You do have some good points, and my argument is going to continue to be that our situation in the middle east is significantly and utterly different than your examples provided. Nazi's, japan, mussolini, Islamist Axis fighters - This situation was general, old fashioned tanks and bombs warfare. This is NOT what we are dealing with in Iraq. Consider this: If we had went into Japan AFTER they had surrendered, and tried to occupy them and tell them they need to become a democracy, for example, this would be much more like our current dillema. We defeated Iraq, in the manner you are speaking of, already. "Their ability to recruit has been decimated as well- and their funding sources have been dried up", "The iraqis have turned against them and are ratting them out BECAUSE we stuck it out long enough and earned their trust." Are these sentences facts? By your logic then, we have already won and should return home anyway! The fact is we have not won, and will not win. If the Islamists were in America pushing down Christians, they would never be able to wipe them out, "decimate" their recruitment powers, or "dr[y]" up their funding sources. Like I said before, Islam is a religion, and idea, that cannot be destroyed by tanks, bombs, or even George Bush himself. Islam will live on in the hearts and minds of the middle easterners and there will always be a need for Islam extremism while our troops are over there. The more we "win" in the sense you are purveying, the stronger their cause becomes and the more we actually do towards promoting anti-western ideologies. "these people are PURE EVIL. They will strap bombs to children and handicapped people and blow up markets" Are they? I'm glad you pointed this out, because labeling in this fashion represents how conflicts begin in the first place. They say the same thing about us you know! Now are they right? Are you right? Or are you both WRONG? I would go for the third option. I'm sure they see our fat, rich, white a**es and think we are evil. They point out our lax morality, sexual promiscuity etc. and think we are very bad for the world indeed. They call us evil, we call them evil, and the next thing you know we are at war. My point with all this is that we have our faults as do they, and it is easier to just point them out as "insane" and "evil" then it is to look at our own faults and criticize ourselves. How can you possibly call an entire people evil? Even if you are just talking about the Islamist extremists, it is highly unlikely that they exist as pure evil and there isn't any logic to their situation. I know Christian extremists, that believe everybody except those in thier particular chruch are going to hell, and I see them as sort of the opposite side of the coin to those Islamic extremists. Neither groups are inherently evil; misguided yes, but we cannot label them as evil. You see, labeling people as evil like this is just what Hitler was trying to do. Hitler's Jews are Bush's Islamists. How many germans agreed with hitler that Jews were evil, and should be wiped out? How many Americans agree with Bush that Islamists are evil and should be wiped out? I think it is interesting that both you and I use the Nazi's as examples to back our arguments, and I'm sure something is to be said for that. "Islam is at its core, NOT a religion, but an INSANE DEATH CULT based on the life of a truly horrible human being" I think this is a bad way to look at the situation. Surely there is a superior way to address this matter. "No , the logic we are using is to try and encourage FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY, and the EMPOWERMENT of WOMEN" We are just going to walk in their country, execute their leader, interfere in their civil war, and push democracy on them. Democracy must be earned. Democracy must be utterly and totally embraced by the entire population to take effect. We cannot just go over there and shove it down their throats and expect them to handle it wisely. Corruption and tyrrany still exist in democracy, especially when the democracy was not totally accepted in the first place. Empowerment of women? Now I would like for women to be treated better in the middle east, but our own history of how we treat women is not a shining one either. Women were unable to vote less than a century ago. Women are shown on television and movies everyday wearing little to no clothing, and used as sex symbols. Britney spears is out there right now setting women's rights back as we speak and showing the Islamists exactly what we have to offer them, and Britney Spears also went on record supporting George Bush and telling the country that she "trusts" our president and believes he is doing the right thing. My points here are that we need to lead by example, not just by force. We have to accept the fact that Iraqi's are different, and maybe they are going to stay different from us indefinitely. I don't think the overwhelming majority of Iraqi's are eagerly awaiting to switching over to our western philosophies right now. "Why dont you ask the IRAQIS if they want us there?" This is the right way to approach this situation, but I believe you are not empathizing with the iraqi people effectively. If there could possibly be an accurate poll of whether or not the Iraqi's want us in their country, I seriously doubt any of them at all would say they do. Well, I think I will end it here, it was nice debating you Solarman, until next time...