Team Debate: Mace Windu vs. Darth Sidious

We will now address their R3 comments. FORCE ABILITIESCon writes: “they claimed that mind tricks and/or DM would not be effective against the Jedi. ” It is well known that mind tricks only work on the weak-minded; the video (canon material) confirm this fact. [1] As for DM, we never asserted that it could not work against Jedi, just that it was unlikely to work against Windu. Maul was a highly emotional individual with a clear connection to his brother, and who was given to being prideful: “Maul's hatred of the Jedi notwithstanding, his master cautioned him to guard against his pride. ” [2] All Con’s video shows is that Sidious took advantage of Maul’s lack of emotional self-control, Maul’s burning desire for revenge [3], and Maul’s wounded pride to unsettle him. Windu, as noted earlier, had remarkable self-control, the kind of self-control Maul lacked. Maul was the kind of being vulnerable to DM, but Windu was the kind of being who was not at all susceptible to it. Again, as we wrote last round: “the fact that Windu was strong enough to fully master Juyo without falling to the dark side (which other accomplished Jedi like Sora Bulq and Depa Bilaba did), it is clear that Windu had a mastery of himself and his emotions that few others truly had. ”Con asks why it took Windu so long to respond to Sidious? There are several explanations, the first being that with four Jedi in a crowded entry way, it would be hard to have the room enough to strike without injuring a nearby ally. There was just no space for Windu to employ his force-enhanced abilities. The confined space of Sidious’s whole office may also be responsible for the lack of a “speedy” duel, since the space limitation would force both Windu and Sidious to focus more on bladework. Additionally, Con asks why it took Windu such a long time to apply the killing blow. The answer here is also simple: Windu did not intend to kill the Chancellor. He had hoped to place the Chancellor under arrest, and killing a disarmed opponent is not the way of the Jedi. [4] It was only after internal deliberation and Sidious’s use of force lightning that Windu came to the decision that, given Sidious’s power, there was no choice but to eliminate him. This was not a case of DM working, this was a case of Windu analyzing his own Jedi values. NON-FORCE ABILITIESPhysical AbilitiesCon claims that Sidious is capable of greater speeds than Windu, but the reason for Windu’s lack of speed has already been discussed. Sidious’s only really burst of speed during the entire fight was during that first strike, when he was farthest from the Jedi, and had the most room to capitalize on the use of force-enhanced speed. And, sure, Sidious “used his abilities with the Force to grant him astonishing speed and strength. ” But that doesn’t rebut the fact that Windu had greater stamina. Stamina is not the same as strength or speed, it’s the ability to maintain that strength and speed over time. Con’s points here are just non-responsive to ours. Just to remind readers, we wrote: “At the time of their battle, Mace Windu was about 53 years old, and Darth Sidious was about 63 years old. .. Darth Sidious, being far out of his physical prime at that point, was substantially outmatched in his physical abilities. Windu was extremely physically fit, whereas Sidious had clearly not been as experienced in combat as Windu, having spent much of his life as a politician, trying to avoid having to engage in combat for the sake of keeping his public profile intact. Mace Windu displayed many times his exceptional physical condition. .. In a prolonged instance of combat, Mace Windu would outlast Sidious with his superior stamina, would have an advantage due to his larger size - and therefore longer reach, and, due to the fact that he was far closer to his physical prime than Sidious - would be naturally physically stronger, and more agile. ” Lightsaber SkillsI cannot access Con’s source 4, so I cannot ascertain at what point in Maul’s training this incident occurred. But, judging from the fact that Maul was defeated by Obi-Wan Kenobi, a Jedi less accomplished in combat than Windu, Sidious’s ability to defeat Maul is not impressive. Windu would’ve put forth a far more significant challenge. Moreover, Savage was not particularly strong in comparison with his other Sith; Maul easily dealt with him himself, as did Dooku. [5, 6] Sidious, as seen in Con’s video, was only really able to defeat the two combined because he was able to divide and conquer. Furthermore, Sidious’s duels with Maul would’ve ended after the Battle of Naboo (32 BBY), meaning that Sidious would’ve gone 13 years with little practice in swordsmanship (19 BBY). [7, 4] Thus, the points remain that Sidious was far less practiced than Windu in combat, and that Sidious, in Con’s example, effectively faced two opponents separately who were weaker than both him and Windu. There is no doubt Sidious was a formidable enemy, but it is unlikely that he was stronger than Windu. The Conclusion that can be drawn from all this, and which we will distill more clearly in the final round, is that even if Sidious had been fighting at peak capacity, Windu would likely have won the match. SOURCES1 - See Video 1 (4:00-4:30) . http://www.youtube.com...2 - . http://starwars.wikia.com...3 - See Video 2 (1:00-1:25) . http://www.youtube.com...4 - . http://starwars.wikia.com...5 - See Video 3 (1:00-1:25) . http://www.youtube.com...6 - See Video 4 (0:20-1:10) . http://www.youtube.com...7 - . http://starwars.wikia.com...Thank once more! Please Vote Pro! Chris and I now turn things over to Con. ..