Animal rights

I am challenging Billytheforum guy to a debate about animal rights from a response about the opinion topic "Animals in cages (yes) or set free (no)". I am against animals rights and all organisations for it quite simply put I believe in unregulated animal abuse and testing. I will be organizing my three main arguments in the form of questions, they are: 1. Why should animals not have rights? 2. Why are animals property? 3. Do animals feel anything like us humans do? 1. "Why should animals not have rights?" To start off I would like to define rights - "a moral or legal entitlement to have or obtain something or to act in a certain way.". So rights are in the law since they are a legal entitlement. Now laws were only invented to protect humans from other humans. if someone was all alone in the middle of the woods and never saw another human again he would not need laws since there would be no other human he could hurt. Laws were created by humans to protect themselves so why are animals getting rights all of a sudden? Now animals have had restrictions for ever this is because animals can be used and trained as a weapon. These restrictions are on animals because they can be used and manipulated by humans to cause harm to other humans much like your common knife or tool (I will later define them as property). So it is true they have restrictions but so do humans, the difference is animals are not entitled to anything in society. Is nailing a cat to a door a crime? No it is not let me elaborate why not. If you were to nail a cat to a door out in a public place it could be seen as an act of aggression but if it was on your own property then what. Then nothing would happen because laws are in place to protect humans from humans, in this case the animal is not being used as a weapon or as a means of causing harm to another human. Yes the cat will suffer (will elaborate on point three) but cats are meant to suffer they do not need to live. No one is getting hurt from this cat being tortured yes it will die a 'horrible' death but it is not human is it is not in my radar. I do not care about the cat and neither should you. As long as it is in our interests (our interest do include 'fun') then it is morally acceptable for an animal to suffer (even horribly) because humans have no relation to animals (see point three), we have evolved beyond them. But if this man were to take another person property and nail it to a door it would be considered stealing. Now let's say the cat does not like being nailed to a door, if it were human it would apply for new rights and regulations by themselves, but since this cat can not apply for rights or even contribute to society then it does not (until it can apply by it self for rights). This separates a baby for an ape, although their intelligence may be the same a baby has the potential to contribute to society in an intellectual way an ape does not. I would like to take this opportunity to distinguish a common cat from an ecosystem, a common cat has no value to the human race, it will do nothing to advance society. An ecosystem on the other hand protects the earth and in return helps humans so it should have rights. 2. "Why are animals property?" Can you steal an animal? Can you buy an animal? Yes well of course. Can you buy a human? No well of course not that was abolished a long time ago. So animals are property by definition. In society animals are mere tools or entities, and people can gleefully do what they wish with their tools. If I throw my wrench down a flight of stairs will you get mad at me well of course not even if it was intentional. So by definition throwing a cat down a flight of stairs is the same thing. Animals have no current role in society, BillyTheForumGuy said it himself, "We don't need animals for work. They were obsolete since the dawn of advance technology." - Society debate forum, topic 'Animals in cages (yes) or set free (no)', in response to Conservative12's argument. Since we have no use for animals currently (other than food and cheap clothing which both result in the extermination of the entity) then animals take a secondary role in humanities advancement. By secondary role I mean use as a pass time, yes you can own a painting even if it does not do you anything same goes for animals. Yes you can light a painting on fire same goes for animals currently. Until the day comes where animals can rise up and apply for rights then they will be classified as property. Let me take this opportunity to differentiate animals in society currently and oppressed groups in history. My example I will using is the African America 'slaves' brought over to the US. They were the victims or a serious error that people made: they judged them on what they had not their intellectual capacity. This was an inexcusable mistake but it is one we can all relate too. But once society realized that we were the same species with the same potential for advancing society in an intellectual way then they were granted rights. Animals can not contribute to society in a meaningful way since they are not conscious like humans and they can not even ration (not to mention have no problem solving abilities or any role in society). Laws are granted off of potential (like a baby) and animals have no potential in society anymore. Animals could get rights if they were to apply for them but until then they will be simple property. 3. "Do animals feel anything like us humans do?" I would like to start off this point by saying that your sentiments for animals are traceable to a western societal issue: humanizing animals. Animals are too often humanized in society be it through organisations (frickin PETA) or movies. Society has made people think that animals are like us. This is very far from true and these lies have corrupted us. Ask yourself are people who have grown up in a rural environment or come from a troubled past are they more or less likely to give in to animal rights. There are much less likely to give in to animal rights why because they have seen the truth. Animals are second to humans. My grandparents used to teach me how to truly view animals: as property nothing more (they also taught me hunting and fishing, all the fun stuff) they came out of the war and they lived on a farm. In my opinion they saw animals as what they are: nothing (I once saw they leave a squirrel to bleed out because they did not want to waste another bullet that is justice). So in summary we just see animals as human like creature because society has accidentally manipulated us into seeing them. This is something that must be changed there should be no rights for animals, no morals for animals and only the truth for animals. So I have (hopefully) made you believe that you are humanizing animals and not viewing them as what they really are. If not then I will explain how animals feel pain and how they are conscious. Animals are not conscious so we can not really relate to them they are in a constant state of sleep almost. If they need something they will get it with no regards for anyone else they do not believe in anything, no morals and no 'life' (if they really 'cared' about others why are there invasive species). So by this definition they also feel pain and emotions differently (they feel no emotions by humans standards). Animals feel pain as an alert by their bodies telling them their existence is being threatened. Torture for them is just making that alert go over and over again. They do not feel pain the way we do at all. Yes they will cry out in a seemingly human way when they are being tortured. This cry serves two purposes: one to appeal to your emotional side and make you stop (it does make you stop a lot of the time doesn't it, it is just a clever trick evolution has given them) and two it is a cry designed to make other come to their help (in a way they are related). So you can not 'put yourself in an animals shoes' because they are nothing like us, we can not relate and we should not try to relate. Before I finish I would like to ask you some questions 1. Do you agree with organizations such as PETA? 2. Do you believe in regulated (or in my case unregulated) animal experimentation? 3. Why do you support animal rights (tracing the source of your beliefs will help you realize some of my points. Really try to do this example: my beliefs in animals came through reading scholarly articles on animal pain and having first person interactions with them)? 4. Do you support fur and meat? In conclusion I believe in a better tomorrow for humans, one that has no room for animals and yes animals get hurt it is all part of the game. (And no I am not joking on this you have perviously asked me this for a reason I can not explain)