LM Classic: Logical-Master vs Mongoose

RE: OPPONENT'S REBUTTAL TO STRATEGY #1 1a. Don't have the space to continue this section. Fortunately, 1b makes this okay 1b. I agree (hence why I was the one who stated this initially); there is nothing in the rules which suggest that nothing exist outside of NYC. Since CON is agreeing to this, he has effectively conceded to his central argument against the force as being moot. 2a. Even if CON's reasoning here were sound, it would make no difference. The rules dictate that knocking an opponent out or subduing them in any other manner brings about their defeat. Even if Ganondorf cannot die, this says nothing about him being incapable of being knocked out or subdued. Since it's agreed that the keyblade works on him, enough blows would KO him rather than kill him. 2b. That source states that such is the case for telekinesis. The boom tube is merely one of the functions of a motherbox, not telekinesis. 2c. CON attempts to thwart my usage of the boomtube by claiming that it involves traveling between dimensions. However, CON has provided false information. Here's what his source states: QUOTE: The "science" of boom tubes has never been explained, (as is normal for the New Gods, though Orion, in the first issue of New Gods, says that a tube "stems from the waves of the mind") but they allow people to travel interstellar distances, and between dimensions, quickly by creating an apparent tube between two points through which people can travel. Note the phase " to travel interstellar distances, AND between dimensions." In other words, these are two distinct forms of travel (one to travel anywhere in the dimension the other to travel outside the dimension). I've yet to claim that anyone on my team would be traveling to another dimension. CON's source merely PROVES that boomtube usage is well within the rules. Also, there is no known science which explains the boomtube (hence ignore CON's attempt to explain it at the end of R3). Being wrapped in a bubble of energy and then moving at incomprehensible speeds is an easy explanation for going from A to B. As for Sora, CON is playing semantics. The fact of the matter is that he is insisting that Ganondorf would seal my group inside of a barrier. In other words, an interior which they are sealed in. d. -Ganondorf would STILL be unable to get past Amazo (who would possess all of his abilities as well as the abilities of my teammates. CON would have to prove that Ganondorf was more powerful than himself (which is illogical) as well as everyone on my team put together. -As for Amazo, he can do more than copy metahumans. I specifically stated that I was using the Amazo from the Justice League animated series (base form at that); my link goes right to JLAS Amazo. Last I checked, neither Superman or Martian Manhunter were considered Meta Humans (since they are aliens) and HawkGirl's (alien too) mace as well as Wonder Woman's braces are both magical in nature. You can confirm this in the link I posted in the 1st round. And in my opponents link, you'll note it being stated that he copied Zatanna's magical powers. 3a. No, the 1st pic shows him underground in a position preparing to fire bullets side ways. What CON is insisting is that MasterHand is going to be attacking upwards while protected underground. There is no such technique which enables him to do this. 3b. Heh, well the emphasis in my last response was moreso it working on Sephiroth than anything else. I took the time to point out how powerful Sephiroth was for a reason. And no, it doesn't bring the walls of rooms crashing inwards as the purpose of the technique is to draw in enemies as well as AP orbs. There is really nothing else to "know" about the technique. 3c. Gravity doesn't effect masterhand? SSBM disagrees with that ( 0:57 - 1:03 on 1st vid). As for vacuums, a clear read of the link CON cites shall indicate what kind of irrelevant vaccum CON is talking about. BOTTOM LINE: When MH is not flying, it is gonna come crashing to the ground like anything else. This idea that he is immune to gravity or can withstand being sucked in by Sora's magnet techniques (in spite of me showing that a far more powerful being can't resist it) is baseless conjecture at best and is thus to be dismissed without any hesitation. e. No evidence. 4. -Even if he could do this , it wouldn't matter as the thought bomb technique is ethereal. It's effect is to suck out the target's soul (quote from source, "The thought bomb sucked the souls of its victims into a sphere of dark side energy where they were trapped in an orb of dark torment until the end of time"). -Note that I have specifically stated that Revan would use force powers to render Apocalypse immobile ( hence " verge of insanity or in too poor of mental state to do anything"). This means no retaliation as CON insists RE: CONs AWESOME STRATEGIES 1. -It wasn't a "gut thing." He said he "sensed Lord Vader was in danger." See 5:07 on 2nd vid. Again, he sensed this BEFORE Anakin was even harmed. We're not just speaking in terms of 0 second instant; we're talking about negative seconds (precognition to be more precise). Still, since prep time wasn't agreed to, he At very LEAST instantly learns the location of the only 5 other being in the city. Also, he could even find their location faster than that by speeding up his perception of time via force speed. - Out of space, thus am dropping the "UFO only" point. However, there are different settings on device to toggle through (minutes, days, years) -About being powerless to do anything about it: I've already contested that Revan could activate his force power faster than K could push the button (both with battle sharpened reflexes to the point of deflecting lazers from blaster bots as well as usage of force speed). -About force choke: Prolongation only applies when a force wielder is intended to torture his/her victim. Use of this technique at its strongest (which is more commonly referred to as force crush, found on the very page CON is citing) would remedy the issue of K having time to do anything, although use of force speed could also be used to speed up the process while using the weaker version of this technique. -Once more, Revan could attack Ganondorf with this technique as well. Or heck, he could kill K and THEN starting gripping ganon before he even had time to move. -At best, one can conclude that it effected everyone who was visually exposed to the light transmitted by the statue of liberty. However, in the lowest regions of the sewers where such light couldn't possibly expose? Or how about if one presses both of their hands over their eyes? This is baseless conjecture (no limits fallacy too :D ). Also, there is no statement which confirms that EVERY SINGLE person in NYC was mindwiped. 2. Ganon: http://en.wikipedia.org.... All known force powers: http://starwars.wikia.com.... Compare. :) Note my R3 solution which doesn't hinge on this comparison. CON dropped it. 3. Extend. VOTING ISSUES: CON's most dedicated argument boils down to a film's plot device (the neutralizer from MIB) while using the no limits fallacy (concluding that there are no precautions which could assure that one wasn't harmed by its effects other than the glasses). He offers no evidence which indicates that the rays of the device can penatrate one's hands, must less reach the lowest regions of the NYC sewers and fails to dispute my evidence of Revan simply being fast enough to either assure that the device isn't activated or grab the mother box to bomtube team-LM into the lowest regions of the NYC sewers. The rest of his position is mostly defensive in nature. I see no reason to reiterate/clarify on any other aspect of the debate. Any new arguments by CON in R4 are to be dismissed. Cheers. :D http://www.youtube.com...