if theres no clock( or watch/sundials/wrist watch/any other time recorder)then time does not exist.

First, I will translate my opponents arguement into English so that we may understand it. "Dear con, There is no sound without a listener. Very obvious. So damn obvious is the fact that theres no time without a clock. (? ) Of course agreed. But what about the superclocks nature has provided. No one can deny that . So what if the clock goes extinct. Time would very much exist with the help of those oh-so-loyal . Unerrable sun and moon. I need a reason to rebute. So oh there! Opponent lets have some fun. " ------------------ 1. There is no sound without a listener. Very obvious. -False, the sound exists, it is merely not heard. 2. So damn obvious is the fact that theres no time without a clock. (? ) Of course agreed. -Did you not just negate your entire arguement? Must I go further? 3. But what about the superclocks nature has provided. No one can deny that . So what if the clock goes extinct. -True, nobody can deny this. But, what WOULD happen if clocks go extinct, I will explore this later in my arguement. 4. Time would very much exist with the help of those oh-so-loyal . Unerrable sun and moon. -Would it? Let's see. -First, to understand why I may be right, you must first understand the concept of hypothetical constructs. ----- In scientific theory a hypothetical construct is an explanatory variable which is not directly observable. For example, the concepts of intelligence and motivation are used to explain phenomena in psychology, but neither is directly observable. A hypothetical construct differs from an intervening variable in that it has properties and implications which have not been demonstrated in empirical research. These serve as a guide to further research. An intervening variable is a summary of observed empirical findings. Cronbach and Meehl define a hypothetical construct as a concept for which there is not a single observable referent, which cannot be directly observed, and for which there exist multiple referents, but none all-inclusive. For example, according to Cronbach and Meehl a fish is not a hypothetical construct because, despite variation in species and varieties of fish, there is an agreed upon definition for a fish with specific characteristics that distinguish a fish from a bird. Furthermore, a fish can be directly observed. On the other hand a hypothetical construct has no single referent; rather, hypothetical constructs consist of groups of functionally related behaviors, attitudes, processes, and experiences. Instead of seeing intelligence, love, or fear we see indicators or manifestations of what we have agreed to call intelligence, love, or fear. Other examples of hypothetical constructs include gravity, creativity, menopause, and guilt. ----- -Now, lets move forward to those concepts of "Unerrable sun and moon". Time, as it relates to the sun, or Solar Time. : Solar times are measures of the apparent position of the Sun on the celestial sphere. They are not actually the physical time, but rather hour angles, that is, angles expressed in time units. They are also local times in the sense that they depend on the longitude of the observer. -Therefore, solar time is only relative. The same also goes for lunar time. There is no official lunar time, but you can define a lunar time similar to solar time. It's 12:00 solar time when the Sun is highest in the sky (or the least far below the horizon), and 0:00 (or 24:00) solar time if the Sun is lowest in the sky (or the furthest below the horizon). In the same way, we can define that it is 12:00 lunar time when the Moon is highest in the sky, and 0:00 (or 24:00) lunar time when the Moon is lowest in the sky. Because the Moon returns to about the same location relative to the Sun after a synodical month (about 29.5 days), there is one fewer lunar day than solar days in such a synodical month. One lunar day is therefore on average about 50 minutes and 28 seconds longer than a solar day. Lunar time and solar time run are the same when it is New Moon. At First Quarter (about a week later), lunar time is 6 hours behind solar time. At Full Moon (after about two weeks) lunar time is 12 hours behind solar time. At Last Quarter the difference is 18 hours, and at the next New Moon it is 24 hours, so then the lunar clock and solar clock show the same time again. --------- Artifacts from the Palaeolithic suggest that the moon was used to calculate time as early as 12,000, and possibly even 30,000 BP. (SRC: Rudgley, Richard (1999). The Lost Civilizations of the Stone Age. New York: Simon & Schuster, 86-105. ) The Sumerian civilization of approximately 2000 BC introduced the sexagesimal system based on the number 60. 60 seconds in a minute, 60 minutes in an hour – and possibly a calendar with 360 (60x6) days in a year (with a few more days added on). Twelve also features prominently, with roughly 12 hours of day and 12 of night, and 12 months in a year (with 12 being 1/5 of 60). The reforms of Julius Caesar in 45 BC put the Roman world on a solar calendar. This Julian calendar was faulty in that its intercalation still allowed the astronomical solstices and equinoxes to advance against it by about 11 minutes per year. Pope Gregory XIII introduced a correction in 1582; the Gregorian calendar was only slowly adopted by different nations over a period of centuries, but is today the one in most common use around the world. -Summary: Man created time in order to explain the rising of the sun and moon, and how things progress. Without any way to measure time (yes the sun and the moon are basically "nature's clocks") time would slip away. === -Time does not pass. To quote Neil Peart, "Time is a spiral, space is a curve". Yes, a spiral - right down the toilet. Time is a lame concept used to try and explain why things happen in a certain order. It is all just a matter of perception: Nothing happened, because it already has happened when you notice it. See? Time is not there. You cannot grab time. You cannot beat time. You cannot save time. -Because there is no time. Someone very clever has fooled us - time isn't real. So then, why do things happen? -They don't. Why do events occur in a certain order? Why is there cause and effect? -There isn't - everything has already happened, and it happens perpetually. Cause and effect are one in the same. People worry too much about what will happen. Just stop it now! There is no need to worry. Something has already taken place, you just haven't realized it yet. But do not worry about it - its not worth the effort. Save all that energy for something more useful like taking a nice hike, a bike ride, having sex, or baking cookies. Time just isn't real.