Eternal Security is a True Christian Doctrine

Prosperity Gospel There has to be a distinction between people who suffer because of sin, and people who suffer because of their faith. The apostle’s death was a gruesome testimony to suffering for faith, but in fact it could be considered a blessing. Their suffering in comparison to their eternal life with God can be viewed as a blessing to help others believe in stead of being viewed as a punishment. This is why the apostle’s were grateful to suffer in the name of Christ. Acts 5:40-41 40 His speech persuaded them. They called the apostles in and had them flogged. Then they ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.41 The apostles left the Sanhedrin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy of suffering disgrace for the Name. 42 Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Messiah. The blessing of suffering pertaining to the apostle’s deaths could be the blessing of giving reason for millions of later peoples to come to know Christ. I agree that the works give rewards in the afterlife, even though it doesn’t give the reward of an afterlife with God in them. So we know as Christians that a blessing could come in the form of suffering for upholding the name of the Lord. We understand the blessings of being one to suffer for Him, and thereby spreading the truth of Christ by demonstrated conviction. Blessings also come from suffering in the name of Lord in the form of becoming stronger in Christ. James 1:2-4 2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters,whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. 4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. Also God can reward us with the blessings of peace and righteousness through suffering. Hebrews 12:11 11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. John Templeton The reason I brought up this interview was to show how someone can still deep down acknowledge the peace and truth they once had through Christ, and can still feel it because at some small point in their heart he is still there. In the case of converted Atheists from Christianity, I personally believe their passion and vigor is a way to oppress the truth they consciously or subconsciously know to be reality. Of course there is no way to prove this in any empirical way, but with the Templeton case we can see a longing for Christ in such a way that speaks to the truth of his heart. Double Crucifixion I think here that Con is mixing the sin of apostasy with all other sins. All other sins when committed do not require the rejection of Christ. Con’s main case is that the sin of apostasy is the only sin that will forfeit your salvation, and therefore should not even be compared to other sins. Strangely however, Con here defends apostasy as being equal to other sins, and that at the time of initial salvation all sins past, present, and future are forgiven. Con inadvertently is supporting eternal security in arguing that apostasy is a sin like all others, and is forgiven, even if it were to take place in the future, by Christ’s death and resurrection. So even if we persist in this sin to our death, it has already been forgiven eternally securing our salvation. Eternity and Man Eternal is eternal in the sense of it being a potential eternal, i.e. a potential infinite. For example take our salvation. We are to be with God for eternity, even though we never actually exist for an eternal amount of time. We are working toward eternity, even though it will never be reached. So if I will never die I will be working toward a potential eternity, even though I’ve been alive for a finite amount of time. This is the same as the number set: (0, 1, 2, 3….) There is an infinite number of numbers in this set, but there are a finite number of numbers between any one number and the beginning of the set. Regardless this is aside from the real topic at hand being are you still saved if you reject your salvation. God Can’t Lie and Our Contract The problem with Con’s 12,000 dollar car contract is when he states he doesn’t pay. The problem is two fold. 1. We have the money and God has the car. Eternal security says we sign a contract with God for the car. We then give him the 12,000 dollars and take the car home. Later we decide we don’t like the car and bring it back. The problem is that it is still our car, and now the dealer (God) is just holding it for us. When we die and all of a sudden realize the truth, there is God with our car and the keys in his hand offering them to us. 2. We have the car and God has the money. I think this a more likely analogy due to the bible saying Christ paid for us in his blood. God enters the contract with us and pays for the car (our soul). We give the car to God and take the money. Later we decide we don’t like God and think his money is worthless and give it back. We don’t want the car back either because we now believe the car is not a good mode of transportation (non-belief in a soul according to God). So God still has the car even though we don’t accept the car as a mode of transportation. Once again when we die and realize the truth, there is God with the receipt for our soul. We are eternally saved. Are We Greater Than God? The statement “are we greater than God” still stands in light of the contract. We would have to go to God and take the car back from him by force. You can try but you will fail, we are not stronger than God. We do have the free will to deviate from Gods desires, and yes our lives will reflect these decisions, but our salvation is secured. Our free will is not compromised by the ability to reject our salvation, because we can reject it. However our rejection holds no power over our salvation, it only holds power with how we live our lives on this Earth and our perception of our salvation. Conclusion and Thanks In conclusion I want to outline the points I’ve made in support of eternal security. 1. We cannot lose our foundation of grace, even though we can deceive ourselves to think it is a different foundation and build our house from our deception. 2. I have shown how if we could lose our salvation it would require Christ to be crucified again to be “re-saved.” Since this is impossible, it is impossible to lose or forfeit our salvation in the first place. (Hebrew 6:4-6) 3. I have shown that if we could reject our salvation then we would be making God a liar in not carrying out his promises. Since God cannot lie we cannot lose our salvation. 4. I have shown that we are not stronger than God and cannot reclaim his purchase for our soul. In light of all these evidences I feel I have made the case for eternal security to be true. Regardless of the outcome of this debate I urge everyone to pray about these issues and find the truth for you through communication with the Lord. Thank you Marauder for your insightful arguments, and for your respectful yet challenging responses. I have extremely enjoyed this debate as it has strengthened my own beliefs in the matter, and equipped me to face eternal security’s critics. I would be happy to debate you again in any topic pertaining to our faith.