All Governments are Criminal Organizations

First off I apologize for FF the last roundIll refute the Pro's points from round 3 then challenge his views in round 4"at least in the US, is that men with guns come to your house, tie you up in metal shackles, throw you in a vehicle, many times a windowless van, and toss you in a cage that isfamousfor being a place where you will be beaten and raped"You like to put a dark spin on things huh? First off a law is a law and if you break it then that is your own damn fault not the governments. That being said people who are arrested still have rights, they can still have attorneys, they have the right to remain silent, they are not slabs of meat like you think they are for some reason. Governments acknowledge that people are people, criminal organizations dont because criminal organizations dont give people rights. "Law enforcement IS violence and intimidation"Yeah if asking nicely and giving you an option to choose youre own fate is counted as violence"The idea that I would be "allowed" to move beyond those borders with permission implicitly asserts that the corporation has the right to deny me access, which is the exact opposite of me being "allowed" to cross those borders."The reason they can deny you access is if youre a smuggler or a criminal or someone wanted for committing a crime. If youre not a criminal or a smuggler then youre allowed to go around anywhere. "Also, you forget that it is not "the people" government spends money on, as there is no such thing as 'the people"."You really are a close minded anarchist huh...Here's the thing, If you were born in a hospital, been to a hospital, seen a dentist, or gone to a school, then the government has spent money on you.... So the government does spend money on EVERYONE"...except the ones that have exemptions that allow them to violate the law, which, I still maintain, is all of them."You still havent given any proof that this is close to being true. For ALL governments to be criminal organizations you must prove that all governments are criminal organizations. You cannot assume that just because 1 might qualify that all others do qualify. "There are many fictional crime families out there. To the extent that they are fictional, their crimes are fictional, but that doesn't change the fact that they are criminal. "Im not talking about fictional crime families, im talking about fictional governments. You said all governments are criminal organizations, I named several that are not criminal organizations, you have yet to give proof that they are indeed criminal organizations. "Claimed that law enforcement (law enFORCEment) has nothing to do with force, violence, or intimidation, even though the exact opposite is demonstrably true."Law enforcement still acknowledges that people have rights, that law enforcement is limited in how they treat people, and that law enforcement lives by codes and laws that they have to obey. Things like the Miranda rights are codes that law enforcement have to work by. Criminal organizations do not have these codes and thus are not criminal organizations. "Claim that taxation is a "special case" because "the people" (ie, you, and people who agree with you) consider it a 'necessary evil'." Yeah, I agree with this, for a government to work it needs taxes which can come from tariffs, excise taxes, or the most common form, income taxes. "Used fictional (FICTIONAL!) governments as examples of governments which are not criminal"Im allowed to use fictional governments to prove you wrong, and you have still not offered evidence showing that each and every one of these are criminal organizations. "Is it really hard to accept that the next to be called into question is the dominant institution of our day?"Well to accept something that challenges the norm, you need proof that shows you are correct, you havent offered any tangible evidence or examples of how all governments are criminal organizations. " Is it really that far of a stretch to think that institutions (governments) which killed nearly 300 million people in the 20th century may not be rational?"Nobody is here to say that governments are rational 100% of the time, but you are certainly the only one here who thinks that American intervention in WWII makes America a criminal organization. "Is it really hard to accept that using an institution which steals nearly half the nation's income is not a good strategy for protecting property rights?"Half of the people in the US doesnt even pay taxes and the half that does is taxed by less than 40% 99% of the time so re-evaluate your math and then when you realize that the government uses a good majority of that to help us live better lives, you might start singing a different tune"Is it hard to figure out that the more soldiers "fight for our freedom", the less freedom we actually have,"Yes because had we not fought the Revolutionary War we would all be somehow MORE free"as measured by the massive amount of legislation coming out of Washington, from SOPA and PIPA to the NDAA and the Patriot Act?"You mean those things that were vetoed, amended numerous times, vetoed again, struck down, limited, and applied only to potential terrorists? I thought so"We can either choose to be on the right side of history, or we can choose to indulge in the delusion that the status quo is always correct - a delusion that, history has shown, will almost always be wrong."Ill call Bullsh*t on that out of all the other ridiculous arguments youve made. According to the Pro all forms of anarchy are better than any form of government. So lets compare governments to AnarchiesGovernments give people rights, Anarchies dontGovernments acknowledge people's property rights, Anarchies dontGovernments provide services to its people, Anarchies dontGovernments puts criminals, murderers, and rapists in jail, Anarchies dontGovernments fund jails to keep criminals in, Anarchies dontGovernments acknowledge the right to bear arms, Anarchies dontLet me summarize this whole moshpit of a debate. Pro is a die hard anarchist who probably believes that making your kid go to school counts as child abuse and absolutely refuses to acknowledge anything good the government has ever done. I am arguing that since governments provide services to people, give rights to people, protect and acknowledge people's rights, repeal laws that are found to be unjust, give rights to people even when they are criminals, and passes laws that benefit people when they do not benefit the government. Governments are not criminal organizations, and by extension just because one government crosses the line one time that certainly does not mean that all governments are somehow all criminal organizations because the Pro has still yet to offer evidence of just how each and every last government is a criminal organization. Fictional or not