King Joffrey Would Have (Eventually) Become a Good King

I would bring to attention the fact that only once did I mischaracterize Pro (he never called Cersei a fool) for which I apologize. Pro says I commit numerous mischaracterizations but only mentions one other, which wasn’t really a mischaracterization at all, but a matter of definitions. Corruption If Joffrey becomes more corrupt it’s very hard to see how he could improve elsewhere since his evolution into a good king, would require him to become a (much) more moderate character. Corruption generally leads more to extremisim. “Exceptionally rational” 1. Pro says Joffrey is exceptionally rational, yet calls him rash and immature in the same sentence. “Foolish”, “rash” “impetuous” “arrogant in excess” “incompetent” are all terms Pro has used that imply irrationality, not to mention the terms he never denied "unintelligent”, “deluded”, “entitled” and “naive”. 2. If Joffrey is exceptionally rational for criticizing Tywin (something he would do no matter what Tywin’s reasons for losing were) he’s exceptionally deluded for saying he defeated Stannis (he didn’t even know what the defense plan was until it happened and deserted as soon as the enemy set foot on shore) and critisizing Jaime despite him being captured. 3. Tywin is not an incompetent battle commander and is actually famous for his accomplishments in battle. The well known“Rains of Castamere” is in fact a testament to his complete annihilation of the defiant Houses Tarbeck and Reyne. 4 Robb's victories were a mix of good planning, trickery, and luck. There's no good reason to put much blame on Tywin, but, of course, Joffrey will blame anyone for anything that doesn't go his way. 5. Tywin was only directly in charge of part of the Lannister force. It was split up. Joffrey was convinced by his advisers to acquiesce to the Tyrell union. “Joffrey balks at setting aside his betrothal to Sansa, but is easily convinced in a sham dialogue with his mother and courtiers and agrees to marry Margaery Tyrell. ” . http://goo.gl...; Sadists treat people poorly for their own pleasure. Since Pro has frequently called Joffrey a sadist, his claim that he only does so with a reason, makes no sense. These are the only pieces of evidence for Joffrey’s “rational and insightful mind". Psychopathy As per Pro’s source, Joffrey would require extensive psychiatric treatment to change his ways, yet Pro posits that Tywin’s sage advice is enough to turn Joffrey around. Joffrey listens to Tywin sometimes, yet never changes his ways for he continually does brutish and rash acts. Tywin intimidates Joffrey; his influence is based on fear, not respect or reverence. How long will that last if Joffrey became more powerful, older, confidant and tired of Tywin’s tempering (especially since Tywin’s getting old)? The answer is easy and in itself refutes Pro’s entire case since it rests on such weak footing. Pro continually defers to his “with age and good guidance will come moderation” argument, despite this being based on weak speculation. Joffrey is horror-film-psycho. Pro can’t simply refer to his argument every time I mention the extremity of Joffrey’s character. Psychopaths are, by definition, not good people. Tywin’s certainly not a good person If effective ruling requires psychopathy, it is impossible to be a good king. -------- Cersei was Queen Regent after Joffrey’s death because Tommen was next in line, but Joffrey’s marriage marked an end to her being Regent. ---------- It is fine for a king to act selfishly at times, but Joffrey is blindly selfish. He doesn’t even realize that acting for the good of his subjects is beneficial to himself. Taking the credit Scapegoating has nothing to do with this, nor is it practical when used incompetently. Though Eddard would have been a flawed king, he is exemplary when it comes to creating loyalty through his fairness. Tywin failed as a father; why should Joffrey be different? Pro doesn’t contend that Tywin failed as a father. His only response is that Tywin isn’t raising a grandson but a king. This is an extremely weak response as Tywin's fathering is the perfect example we can refer to to see if Tywin would be able to moderate Joffrey's behavior. Since Joffrey already received poor parenting and is already much worse than Tywin's children, Tywin's task is doubly great. Ignored (other than what’s already been mentioned) "The core personality traits of psychopaths are exceedingly difficult to change” -Pro’s source “Joffrey does not attach himself to Tywin, he's intimidated by him” “Tywin’s approaching old age” “Joffrey ridicules Tywin to his face and behind his back” “Margaery is a women; Joffrey is sexist and a prideful one Margaery’s philanthropy would not have rubbed off on Joffrey. Joffrey’s a psychopath, he has no empathy for the needy Haughty sadists in extreme power are NOT receptive to influence Joffrey took after Cersei and Cersei never become a good ruler despite having Tywin Lannister as her parent. ”