"The successful solution to every problem we ever face will always be MORE freedom, not less."

"I find it awful unfair to me as a debater when you consistently change your position" I find it awful unfair that you keep accusing me of that when in fact I'm merely clarifying what you've clearly misunderstood. English is ambiguous, you may choose what I mean until I clarify, I'm sorry that my real meaning doesn't match your chosen meaning. "It was much implied." Don't assume. "What exactly are the voters voting on here?" I don't care about votes. "They are inevitably due to mean too little too much of the time." Why? I don't think so. You assume that flexibility is bad or weak, I disagree. "You also open up the ability to have people who are tried argue whether or not the law was wrong rather than whether or not they were wrong." Uhhh, yea, that's the point, slave. Sometimes the law *IS* wrong. For example we didn't shoot the Enron execs. "'Guidelines' would be difficult to enforce" So ease of enforcement is your primary concern? Why not just have a declared "because I said so" system then? "simply because it will be bended with its flexibility all the way until it starts to break." We've already crossed that bridge, "if the glove don't fit you must acquit." The system is already bereft of credibility. "Laws exist, and people are still able to lead happy lives" So? That does not mean there is no room for vast improvement, or should we just halt innovation in general and take the whole "If it ain't broke don't fix it" approach to social systems design. "In general, most 'good' (I use the term loosely) people are not negatively affected to any reasonable extent by law." Circular, good is defined by adherence to the law in many minds. Besides, the exact opposite is true. Evil people typically don't care about the legality of their acts. This fact is well exploited in gun law debate, because a crack dealer does not care if his mac-10 is legally registered. "The law does what it can and does it well. It provides a means for order, and stability where otherwise it may not be." Again, just because the law is the best means for generating "order and stability" does not mean they are inherently good things. They could just as easily be seen as stagnation. An ant colony is orderly and stable as well, you wanna live like an ant? "Yes, it provides for the state, but inherently in doing so it aids the people." Only if you assume the state is a necessary construct. I do not. "Easier said than done. In a world where everyone can defend themselves, it is little different than a world where everyone cannot. The 'evil, and the 'good'. in each situation. still remain on the same level." Can you rephrase this? I simply don't understand but I know you're trying to make a point. But I don't see it. "Padded room -- no. Island -- yes." Slippery slope. The island leads to the room, to the strap. "You've claimed that bedstraps help people" No I claimed that cutting someone's hand off helps to prevent infection, but so does an antibiotic. "The statement 'all things change' cannot be proven from what I can see." http://en.wikipedia.org... And no worries about your delays.