King Joffrey Would Have (Eventually) Become a Good King

Rebuttal1) CON: "Since “corruption” is a heavily negative term, Pro concedes that Joffrey would get worse, and, thus, essentially, concedes the debate. "This is silly. The negative, corrupting influence of power needs to be weighed against the positives that Joffrey would gain from maturity and good guidance. All kings are subject to corruption from power; this cannot be used as a determinant of a good vs bad king.2) CON: "Joffrey is clearly irrational and Pro already accepted that fact. "This is also silly and a mischaracterization. Joffrey is exceptionally rational. .. it's just that he is rash and immature. Some examples:2a) Joffrey was right about "[Tywin's] stupidity in the field of battle. " Cercei and Tyrion may think that Tywin is a capable battle commander, but what do they know of battle? Tywin lost every single battle to Robb Stark, and this with an army 3 times the size of Robb's. Tywin is a master strategist and administrator, but battle commander? Incompetent, especially compared to Joffrey's "father", Robert Baratheon.2b) Joffrey's first impression of the Tyrells is that they're an "ideal match" for his rule and would allow him to rule for 100 years uncontested. This is exactly Tywin's independent assessment of their alliance as well.2c) Joffrey does not treat anyone poorly until he has reason to so - Sansa only after Ned's treason, Tyrion because, well, you know, the slaps, Ser Dontos because he was drunk at a fight to the death, etc. .. Recall that Joffrey was the picture of civility towards Sansa before Ned committed treason. There are many other instances of Joffrey's rational and, dare I say, insightful mind at work, but space does not permit. 3) CON concedes that "If psychopathy has any positive traits, they are of the more moderate cases. " Indeed with age and good guidance will come this moderation.4) CON is "not sure how [PRO] can argue Joffrey being a psychopath would make him a good king. "You can be a wise sociopath and thus a good king. It just means you lack empathy. If you start putting faces to each life when you're comparing numbers of lives saved or lost in war and peace, you won't be able to make the hard decisions that kings need to make. This is a picture perfect description of Tywin, who for the purposes of this debate defined what a good king would be.5) PRO/CON agree that "Tywin’s sage advice is the most treatment Joffery would ever get," and this has proven to be enough to change Joffrey's behavior. Per Tywin, Joffrey ceased with the bedding ceremony during Tyrion's wedding, gave an initially appropriate response to Tyrion's gift at his own wedding, etc. .. There are not many scenes between Joffrey and Tywin, and in nearly all of them, Joffrey defers to Tywin.6) CON: "Joffrey was old enough to marry. Cersei had ceased to be Queen Regent. "Cercei was Queen Regent up until and after Joffrey's death.7) CON thinks it's a bad thing that kings act "purely out of selfish motives. " Nonsense. In order for a king to do any good, the king must put himself first. Just think of chess - if you lose the king, you lose the game, no matter how many pieces you take. Per Tywin (round #1), Orys the First was not a good king because he died shortly after taking the crown - this despite all the good works he did for the people.8) Another mischaracterization by CON: "Cersei is a fool (as Pro admits). .. "I do NOT admit this. Cercei is a most capable power broker. Unfortunately, she knew nothing of administration. Of course she wouldn't. .. she's a woman, and women in Westeros did not hold any position of administrative responsibility, and thus were not taught any aspects of administration. Margeary does not know either. .. she only does charity work, not administrative detail.9) CON: "Joffrey would turn the Tyrells against him. .. Joffrey could not handle the problems plauging [sic] Westeros"Ignored because this is baseless speculation.10) On "Taking the credit", scapegoating occurs often and is accepted as practical at nearly every level of society even today.11) CON: "Tywin failed as a father. "Tywin is not raising a grandson in Joffrey, but a king.12) PRO/CON agree that "Eddard Stark [was] hopeless in the politics of King's Landing". Ned Stark would not have made a good king. ConclusionMost people would like to be around people they can share a beer with. Joffrey is not like most people. .. Joffrey is king. What would make someone undesirable and even dysfunctional in a normal environment would, interestingly enough, make someone fit to be king. Kings don't drink with buddies. .. they manage power, violently and ruthlessly when appropriate. Regardless of what all of the jealous and petty bystanders at court would have you believe, all Joffrey needed was maturity and guidance, and he would indeed have become a good king.