If here today, our Founding Fathers would call themselves Libertarians and vote accordingly.

"I was not speaking of our founding fathers as individuals, but as a group. The constitution is a product of their cooperative intent." You cant classify them as a group though! They are waaay too diverse. To try and classify such a mismatched group of men all into one category is simply impossible. And though the constitution is a product of their cooperative intent, all that proves to me is that you think the Constitution is libertarian, which you would obviously think considering you're a libertarian. "There were doctors back then that charged for their services.There were criminals back then, just as dangerous as our modern-day gangbangers. People worked just as hard for their money and wanted to keep it. And there were a lot of poor people (even before laziness was sanctioned) that would have loved a welfare state." Sure there were doctors, but it wasn't an industry, it was a series of private practices. The prices werent too high and the care was easily obtained. The founding fathers would NEVER have considered that an issue, so to do what you are trying to do which is to guess where they would stand would be impossible seeing as they never dealt with the problem. Also, sure there were bad guys, but that doesnt void my point. You couldnt control guns because it would have been unthinkable. They were FAR too necessary. Im never said there werent bad guys. I simply said that guns were too much of a necessity to control them, so again, its another issue they never needed to deal with. Lastly, I dont see any point proven with your last two sentences. Of course people would have loved welfare. Of course they wanted to keep there money. Who doesnt? I never even addressed the welfarism, and from a taxes point of view, people in the 18th century were STILL taxed just as much as we are, just in different forms. "I'm guessing you're a liberal: or a person who supports ideals which the founding fathers (as a whole) did not. You probably believe that government is here to create equal outcome, not equal opportunity; to sieze property, not protect it; and to stifle personal freedoms rather than defend them. The founding fathers would turn in their graves if they knew how the constitution (a purely libertarian ducument ratified by the entire group) has been virtually wacked. If here today, I believe they would do their best to restore it to its original purpose, and would take a Libertarian stance on almost all issues. The constitution was not the framework for a socialist state or a right-wing puritanical empire. If you want evidence of what our founding father agreed on, you have it. It's called the constitution. In your argument, you mentioned that many of our founding fathers were not libertarians. I recommend you check the bottom of the constitution (the touchstone of libertarian thought) to see if they might have signed on." -Hahaha dude im a conservative. The idea of a welfare state makes be sick. Gun control is dangerous to law-abiding citizens, taxes are too high, and government is too involved. I was never trying to argue liberal ideas. I was only trying to prove a point. That being aside, your attempt to somehow discredit me by calling me a liberal is simply stupid and largely intolerant. Lastly, seriously, stop trying to prove that the Constitution is libertarian and try to prove the point you started with.