European Union

Rebuttal#1 The net contribution from the UK to the EU budgetI think this information is compatible with what I have been saying. My sources from the last round prove that there is no trade benefit with staying in the EU [round 2, source 2] that we wouldn't get from leaving the EU. So, we would save money if we left it.#2 There is no trade benefit to the United Kingdom in staying in the European UnionI understand pro's confusion in this, so perhaps I didn't express my point clearly enough. The report that I linked to in the second round is saying that there is no trade benefit from the EU [round 2, source 2] that we wouldn't get if we were to leave the EU.#3 There is trade benefit to the United Kingsom in leaving the European UnionAll of the current countries who are members of the European Economic Area {EEA} but not the EU itself are all very small countries. Iceland has a population of 320,000, Liechtenstein has a population of 34,237, and Norway has a population of just over 5 million [1]. We have a population of over 63 million [2]. Not only that, but you mentioned in your argument the trade deficit between the EU and the UK - it has been estimated that if the UK lost 3 million jobs, then the EU would lose 4 million jobs [3]. Britain is important enought that they'd be able to create a trade deal with Europe that doesn't include any of the membership fees or limitations of our current trade restrictions.#4 If we left the EU, there'd be a significant decrease in Fuel PovertyIt's true that there'd be more elderly people dying if we were to stay in the EU, and I can feel the tory voters reading this and nodding their heads in agreement - not me, though! I care for our old people, and if there are better groups of people to suffer from the consequences of dealing with this problem than the elderly. After all, a significant number of old people live in old peoples' homes, which young people may not find very "rad".The solution is to stop all the immigrants with nothing special to offer this country from entering this country, because as I said in the last round, if we left the EU, we'd be allowed to have a real immigration policy. Not just that, but we'd also be able to deport illegal immigrants and terrorists without taking ages.#5 The European Union is not responsible for peace and puts us in risk of having a war/riotsI'll just clarify - here, I was dealing with the common argument from Nick Clegg fans that if we left the EU, there'd be a third world war. Pro gives us no reason why similar circumstances could not happen in the UK after a few more years of staying in the EU. As proved (Round 2, source 8), it is most likely that the UK would have to adopt the Euro if it were to stay in the EU until 2020. This is especially bad as one of the main reasons that the UK's economy is growing (and even to overtake France by 2020 [4]) is because of the pound's strength against the dollar compared with the Euro [5].#6 The EU has destroyed over 97,000 UK jobsBut those EU-related jobs aren't specifically EU-related. They are Europe-related. We'd still be able to trade with Europe if we left the EU, and if anything, we'd have more jobs, as we wouldn't have the EU blocking cheaper imports. So, the point still stands.#7 Outside of the EU, we will be able to have a fair and sensiblePro's point here is very wobbly as he doesn't five any statistics on what % of people who migrate to the UK come from unpreviliged countries, or even the reasons migrants give for coming to this country. Even so, 200.000 divided by the number of alternative comparably pleasent places to migrate (The US, France, Germany, Spain, Japan, Russia, the list goes on) does not make for a significant burden on other countries, especially when you factor in their size.Moreover, the UK needs a real (fair and sensible) immigration policy, as is evident from the fact that England is the most crowded country in Europe and has some of the highest levels of net migration [6]. This problem needs a solution, and urgently.#8 Outside of the EU, we would be able to restore democracy to our countryPro's statistics do not do much to deny that there is a democracy deficit in the UK as a result of the EU. He says that a lot of MEPs dispute legislative figures, however I am talking about someone who'd have more authority to know about things like these than an MEP - a senior European Comissioner, as I linked to in the second round. The question has to be asked - why would a senior European Comissioner get such a thing wrong, and if it has an equal chance of being anywhere between 6-84% as you implied, why did she go for the very high figure? Wouldn't she want Britain to think better of the EU if she wanted to do that?The point still stands that MEPs cannot initiate legislation and therefore the EU is not a fair democracy - one of many reasons why we should leave it.On the European Comissioners - a majority of people elected (MEPs), people in Britain would have no say over whatsoever, therefore they aren't elected democratically. (I am in favour of an AV system) If we elected 50 people in the house of commons, and the other few hundreds are not. Then, they have to elect people to represent them. Would that be democratic? No, exactly.I think I have maintained a strong case for the UK leaving the EU.Thank you.Source[1] http://en.wikipedia.org...[2] 2012 figure, https://www.google.co.uk...[3] The first Myth, http://www.betteroffout.net...[4] http://m.bbc.co.uk...[5] ibid[6] http://www.dailymail.co.uk...