Best Batman Villain

p1)"he tells (Bruce) that he was dipped in the Lazarus Pit by Ra's" - No, he doesn't. Jason tells Bruce - "Oh, you got to talking with Ra's, huh? Well, does it make it easier for you to think that my little dip in his fountain of youth turned me rabid? or is this just the real me?" 1. He never says that Ra's was the one who dipped him in there [hint: Ra's didn't, it was Talia]. 2. He doesn't say that it brought him back from the dead, only that it supposedly turned him rabid [hint: It did not bring him back from the dead because Lazarus Pits aren't capable of bringing someone back after so long]. So, let's see Ra's total actions involved in the "making" of Red Hood . (A) He hires someone to cause a distraction, inadvertently causing Jason's death. (B) He takes care of a comatose Jason. Then Talia, against Ra's wishes, puts him into the Pit. The story fits, without contradiction, with the DCAU movie Under the Red Hood and (A) and (B) above are the only actions Ra's takes to "create" the Red Hood . The only one who can be given undisputed credit (in a villainous way) is the Joker . "My opponent is picking and choosing different facts from his sources that contracted itself" - They do not contradict themselves at all... the continuity of the DCU necessitates that the flashback narrated by Ra's was a lie. Jason was dipped in "(Ra's) fountain of youth", but it wasn't Ra's himself that did it (and, in fact, Ra's wished against it. Maybe he lied to Bruce to cover for his daughter. Remember, he wants Bruce to wed Talia and become his heir of the Legion of Shadows). p2) "when I said that he created Batman he gave him the skills that was (sic) necessary for him to become Batman which in turn made him create Batman." - I don't need to argue this. (1) Ra's created Batman and this makes him a better/worse villain. (I argue, it hurts his status as a villain) (2) Ra's didn't create Batman and he doesn't get credit for better or for worse. (Your point is conceded) Your choice. p3) Lazarus Pits cannot bring a person back from the dead who has been dead for a period of time. I already stated this from one of my sources; Battle for the Cowl . If it is attempted, the best that can happen is that person is brought back as a mindless zombie. Also, just to kill the whole point of "immortality" and why Ra's is special in this... many other characters have used the Lazarus Pit to heal wounds, illness or become youthful again. These include: Bane, Black Canary, Nyssa, Talia, King Snake, Nora Fries, Lady Shiva, The Riddler, and Batwoman. There is nothing special about Ra's in this. Ra's is no more immortal than anyone else. He is just Old . p4) "My opponent brings up that the reason that Jason Todd is such a great villain is that he is an out of control vigilante for Gotham" - The "out of control vigilante" is your term, not mine. I have never addressed him as anything but a villain in the eyes of Batman and a possible hero in the eyes of the citizens of Gotham. The closest thing I said to that is "Jason Todd's journey to murderous vigilantism is (Bruce's) greatest Failure". In fact, I've never came close to calling him "out of control", I call him a "contrived concerted motif". "Batman has to defend the corrupt world from Ra's" - Although Batman sometimes strays when enjoined with the Justice League... his role as an individual is to protect Gotham and only Gotham. Even when he does join with the Justice League, he often laments at this... viewing his actions with the League secondary to his role as the protector of Gotham (as we know from the comic; Onyx, and later Catwoman, are the only superheros that Batman allows to operate independently in Gotham.) My friend, when it comes to Batman and his villains - the only concern is Gotham . I would say, for the reasons stated in previous rounds, that Red Hood has a better chance of beating Batman for Gotham's soul than Ra's does. For that, he is the Best Batman Villain .