BeIR/webis-touche2020 huggingface dataset:
Rebuttal: Democracy or Majoritarianism

A major portion of Opposition’s case rests on how problematic it is for a government to go against the wishes of the majority. But, if we look at the democracies of today, we see an ever-increasing trend towards more and more checks to prevent the tyranny of the majority that the opposition supports. Presidential Vetos, Judiciaries, and Constitutions, all provide checks against the majority rule. Most countries' constitutions explicitly forbid legislation that unfairly privileges a majority group, as seen in the enshrinement of equal rights in these documents. Opposition argumentation seems to suggest that the government may only override the will of the majority in the most extreme circumstances (e.g. the slaughter of twins). A government may subvert the will of the majority when, if it did not act, demonstrable harms would result. We can see this happen throughout the history of human rights, be it anti-discrimination laws, affirmative action laws, hate crime laws, or any other. The insinuation that government legislation for same-sex marriage would be an unfair imposition on the majority of dissenters only stands once government starts forcing its citizens to marry someone of the same sex. To quote opposition: "Liberalism is in essence the preference for self determination at the most personal level." This would seemingly make it clear than self determination at an individual level is the highest priority. Same sex marriage allows for self-determination within the LGBT community, without hindering the self-determination of those who oppose same sex marriage. They remain perfectly free to have a heterosexual marriage and not associate with anyone who hasn't got one.
More than just gay rights

The argument labelled 'more than just gay rights' is a complete red herring in this debate, and therefore should be ignored as a reason to legalise same-sex marriage. Yes, there is a lot of confusion around transgendered, and intersexed, persons' rights, identities and social status, and entitlements as human beings. We concede all of that. But what does that have to do with the debate at hand? The only rational link we can impute to the proposition team - since it is unclear from their superflouous entry - is the embedded (but, unhelpfully unexpressed) claim that same-sex marriage should be legalised in order to help improve the social and legal status of the transgender and intersex communities. But that is nonsense! For one thing, if same-sex marriage is legalised, we will still - rightly or wrongly - not be accomodating persons who do not fit the straight-gay dichotomy, or the male-female one, with the gay and heterosexual marriage regimes that would then be on the statute books. Proposition must show evidence, or at least argue why it is *likely* that, once same-sex marriage is legalised, it will be a mere small step towards marriage regimes that allow for other genders and sexualities to also be accomodated. At any rate, at best this argument is an extremely weak tangential *potential* benefit for a very small minority - transgendered and intersexed persons - and so it is a weak independent reason for legalising same-sex marriage. We reject it as an unconvincing, and unsubstantiated, red herring.
Rebuttal: This is Not a Small Debate

Again proposition misses the point of the debate. The opposition has never once claimed that homosexuals are *not* discriminated against at present. Our claims were: (1) The specific issue of the right to marry is a small and tangential one in comparison to Apartheid or the Jim Crow laws. (2) Bringing about formal equality by using top-down legislation is not the way to encourage substantive equality. Substantive equality relates to, but is not limited to, all those things proposition has just mentioned - equal treatment from the police, from fellow citizens, and from employers. (3) That it is incumbent upon proposition to show that allowing access to same-sex marriage would have substantial meaningful benefits for homosexuals. Further, proposition persists in failing to pry apart concerns by gay persons that fall outside the debate, but which are legitimate. For example, raiding gay bars or limiting gay persons' employment rights, etc., are not relevant in this debate, so a mass of evidence about those discriminatory practises are impotent in this context. We challenged Team USA to either show us a) why all of these gains that gay persons seek must be, and can only be, won as an irreducible * PACKAGE*, rather than won on an issue-by-issue basis; and/or b) why legalising same-sex marriage is a NECESSARY CONDITION for these other ills to disappear. Not only has this challenge been responded to with silence, but we in opposition have given positive evidence and argument to the contrary (see, again, for example, our entry on the backlash against gay persons which evidences the non-obvious link between same-sex marriage and more substantive equality concerns that gay persons rightly have - like, indeed, living in safe environments such as being able to frequent a pub without risk of becoming a hate crime victim) So, the connection between same-sex marriage legalistion and these alleged wider social benefits for gay persons remains unproven.
Rebuttal: Stereotypes- Propagation and impact.

The critical question is whether legalizing same-sex marriage will help to stop the spread of stereotypes. We concede, on opposition, that there are some stereotypes that do exist. We reject the notion that their existence is predicated on whether or not same-sex marriages are legal. What the proposition has given us is at best badly articulated pop-psychology. The public see that gay people can't be married and thus equate the 'problems' of non-married people to homosexuality. We see no evidence whatsoever for this psychological link other than a simple correlation - maybe; why is it that South Africans, who live with and know about married homosexuals, still have strong feelings of 'dislike' towards homosexuals? The proposition then attempted to show that the fact that homosexuals*youths* are more likely to commit suicide relates to the moral quandries they face with regard to their sexual identity. Funnily enough, the statistics they cite all related to *youths* (age 12 - 21), not the age group that is likely to be in any way affected by the legalizing of same-sex marriage. At the same time, we believe that the quandaries faced by homosexuals are as a result of the way in which fellow citizens treat them. It is no surprise that young homosexuals commit suicide more frequently than young heterosexuals if we consider the fact that, as stated in the proposition's own evidence, homosexuals are treated very badly at schools [[http://www.gayfamilysupport.com/gay-statistics.html]]. WHY WOULD SAME-SEX MARRIAGE ELIMINATE these statistical realities at any rate? Proposition's linkage of the same-sex marriage debate with other issues faced by the gay community remains limp.
More than just gay rights

The transgender and intersex communities are often legislated into confusing situations because of mandates for opposite-sex marriage. Depending on how "sex" is legislated in a particular area, these individuals are arbitrarily prevented from marriage with long-term partners who may or may not be intersexed, gay, or transgendered themselves. Since "[t]here is no one biological parameter that clearly defines sex," [[http://www.isna.org/legal]], these individuals are often forced to choose a gender identity that does not reflect their biological or emotional reality. In the transgender community in Australia, the law, previous to Feb. 2003, allowed transgender individuals to recognize themselves as the gender they had become except for in marriage. In the famous case of Kevin and Jennifer, it was found to be unconstitutional to assign someone's gender based upon their designated gender at the time of their birth. [[http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/family_ct/2003/94.html]] Due to the Marriage Act of 1961, legal marriage is still held to be only between a "man and a woman". This means that in Australia Post-operative transgendered persons may marry persons of the opposite gender to their current gender. Pre-operative transgendered persons are not allowed marriage and those who change their gender after marriage are still in a legal gray area. We see that this puts undue stress on transgendered persons to obtain very expensive surgery to change their gender if they wish to have a legally recognized marriage. Intersexed individuals are those persons whose sexual identity is ambiguous in relation to legal requirements either because their genitalia/gonads are doubly gendered or missing or because they have mixed primary or secondary sexual characteristics. Since at least 1 in 1000 births show intersex characteristics [[http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency]], this is a problem affecting significant portions of any society. Mandating gender-difference for marriage creates significant problems for these people. in those places of the world where marriage is seen as paramount, parents or doctors may perform surgery to "normalize" the appearance of genitalia. This is estimated to be performed for one to two out of every 1000 live births. The size of one's clitoris or penis should not be the basis for a medical procedure without the will of the patient. Columbia has reflected this in their decision to prevent such surgeries from occurring [[http://www.isna.org/node/97]]. The fear of not being able to marry off a child often leads to operations which are "inadequate" and need to be repeated later in life. [[http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CYD/is_13_36/ai_76877656/]]
It creates a social backlash that damages substantive equality for homosexuals

Corrective rape is not caused by same-sex marriages. In the links the opposition posted, we see incidents of rape in school of outed unmarried individuals. Their other link attributes the rise in corrective rape not to a "backlash" but to the highly publicized rape of Eudy Simelane: "[S]ince then a tide of violence against lesbians in South Africa has continued to rise". The problem is that the SA government has failed to take sufficient action against these crimes, not that they have legalized gay marriage. The South African government was clearly aware that there was "overwhelming opposition to this bill from people throughout South Africa" [[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6147010.stm]] when they legalized same-sex marriage. It affords same-sex couple legal stature and recognition in a very homophobic atmosphere. It is hard to see how "gradualism" could have prevented these acts of violence. Indeed, more immediate legal action continues to be called for from the gay community in South Africa. [[http://www.pambazuka.org/en/category/lgbti/58066]]
Rebuttal: This is Not a Small Debate

Opposition has already decided this debate is a "small" one, analogous to whether you like "banana on pizza" or not. Therefore, while same-sex marriage may sometimes be desirable, it is non-necessary and mostly insignificant. This falls into the challenge that was initiated from the opposition which was to point out how "socio-economic rights relating to education, association, public facilities, employment, political emancipation" are being impaired within the status quo. In the status quo, we see that gay persons do face discrimination: In 29 states of the US, citizens can and do get legally fired for being gay or lesbian [[http://socialistworker.org/2009/08/11/lgbt-equality-on-the-job]] and in other countries such as Turkey [[http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/gay-referee-gets-red-card-in-turkey-1718056.html]] which shows that LGBT citizens' employment is limited. Schools do not protect gay students from harassment, abuse or threats from other students [[http://www.newsday.com/nyclu-says-school-didn-t-protect-gay-teen-1.1379784]]. Gay bars and institutions are subject to unruly and unregulated raids which threatens LGBTQ persons' right to congregate peacefully with like minds without apprehension [[http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-gay-raid7-2009aug07,0,1710983.story]]. Gay Parades are banned in countries and cities such as Moscow which removes any sort of right of protest [[http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid107690.asp]]. LGBTQ people face much social discrimination. The opposition attacked our opening analogies: of course, all analogies must have some dis-analogous part, and surely the scope of the examples of Jim Crow and apartheid do not make a one-for-one correspondence to the denial of same-sex marriage. The importance of them is to show that when a group, be it a minority or a majority, is deliberately denied symbolic equality, they are made into an ideological minority, they feel the pain of undeserved mistreatment, and they do not feel that is it a "small" debate.
Minority Discrimination

Every argument raised by the proposition has a practical element to it, none more so than their first charge - that current legislation is minority discrimination. The crucial question that needs to be asked of the proposition is this: What changes will actually occur if same-sex marriages are legalized? It is simply not sufficient to say 'the time is always now to bring about such change'. For this reason it seems peculiar that the debate has been set in 'all countries', including those who have condemned 'active' homosexuals to death, and so we will limit our discussion, at present, to those countries where same-sex marriages are a political possibility. First and foremost, the opposition recognizes that this debate is not about the 'rightness' or 'wrongness' of homosexuality. As our positive case substantiates below, there exists reasonable disagreement as to whether or not homosexuality is morally acceptable. Second, we challenge the proposition to show us that a refusal to grant homosexuals the right to marry is in any way comparable to Apartheid legislation or the Jim Crow laws which both limited not only the occasional 'social' right, but a broad swathe of socio-economic rights relating to education, association, public facilities, employment, political emancipation, and so on. Any psychological and socio-economic consequences that resulted from these laws are entirely and absolutely incomparable to the non-legalizing of same-sex marriages; these laws were designed to control resource allocation and thus impair the prosperity and growth of a people, not to 'safeguard' a particular cultural institution. The cases are categorically different. Interestingly, the only serious social science studies of the demand for same-sex marriage (based on the a variety of countries as well as specific states in the USA) shows that such demand seems fairly small [[Gallagher & Baker: 2006]]. It seems unlikely to us that this rather small issue is having profound sociological, psychological and economic effects on people's lives. Finally, while we concede that ideologically driven legislators will often find ways in which to manipulate legislation to damage the interests of others, we feel we should consider the issue realistically. In most cases homophobic legislators will only feel strongly that homosexuals should not 'impose' on their personal cultural sphere by actually marrying. Thus, we believe, the majority of legislators are not going to actively snipe homosexuals over and above that which is required to keep them 'away' from marriage. It is quite unclear from proposition's argument how they feel legislators might actually try to undercut homosexuals' rights, and citing one scandalous piece of legislation (that can itself be openly debated as either homophobic or not) is simply not sufficient. Indeed, we feel that homophobic legislators might be even more tempted to actively remove the rights of homosexuals in marriages if they feel that they have been given no choice in the matter. Generating buy-in from legislators and citizens alike will be a central argument in our substantive case.
Rebuttal: Stereotypes- Propagation and impact.

The opposition must be living in a utopia county, which from their own evidence we know South Africa is not, to believe that hyper sexuality is not a common stereotype attributed to homosexuals. Furthermore if they bothered to read our evidence, they would see it indeed clearly single out this stereotype. [[http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/02/27/MNG1H59R5Q1.DTL]] We accept that the start of these stereotypes may be religious, but we believe even the most religious people need some evidence, however skewed to spread such hate. We believe by denying Same sex marriage this stereotype of the homosexual who is incapable of monogamy is only further propagated, since it puts an official stamp of approval from the government that there is something lacking in same sex relationships which does not qualify them for marriage. Possibly more even damaging is the fact that stereotype don’t just affect others, they affect you too. While growing up in a social climate where you are getting this strong stereotypes about what you are supposed to be, and then you see the government making legislation denying you rights, and confirming this ideas, you start believing them to inevitable traits you must accept. This is where the additional price added to homosexuality by the government comes in. Opposition is right that there are some individuals who do not face moral quandaries over their sexuality, but unfortunately these individuals are few and far between. We see significantly higher depression and suicide rates amongst homosexuals [[http://www.gayfamilysupport.com/gay-statistics.html]] No small cause of this is the dichotomy of choice homosexuals are faced with. Yes true, you can technically still married, but I don’t think there are too many cases of a openly gay man who can go up to a woman, tell her he’s gay and then ask her hand in marriage. That is a ridiculous justification by the opposition. So when we take into account the damaging nature of these stereotypes that denying same sex marriage spread, and the probable consequences instead of “Technically possible” that the opposition gives us, we see that legalizing same sex marriage makes being homosexual a whole lot less depressing.
Inadequacy of Alternative Categories

Proposition's argument is mistaken on a number of grounds. First, civil unions are not inherently different in the rights and burdens they distribute, compared to marriage. This is contingent on the civil union legislation of a particular country. Civil partnerships in the UK and in South Africa, for example, distribute the same benefits and duties as do marriage. So it is perfectly possible to design parallel legal structures to those of marriage. This part of proposition's case is factually false. Second, it is also false to suggest that questions around custody, and the like, cannot be equittably dealt with between straight couples and gay gouples unless all couples enter into marriage regimes. For one thing, a lot of administrative and social barriers to custody persist EVEN WHEN marriage is extended to gay persons. Gay couples in South Africa, including married ones, sometimes struggle to access parental rights due to administrative and social hurdles. This evidences the fact that same-sex marriage is NOT the panacea for substantive equality. Conversely, gay persons' right to adopt children, by way of example, was legally recognised before gay marriage was legalised in South Africa. This speaks to the fact that each of these social policy issues can be, and tend to be, independently debated and decided. Proposition is, without evidence, assuming that there is a necessary connection between them. Evidence of widespread cases in which these battles are won AS A PACKAGE have not been presented. Finally, and perhaps most seriously, is the worry that gay persons are excluded from the symbolism that constitutes the label 'marriage'. We do not think that the symbolism constitutes a serious enough harm - it is the associated legal benefits of the institution of marriage that is a more important, tangible issue of harm. And, as we have argued, these associated benefits CAN be enjoyed under others bits of legislation. The right to the symbolic value of the word 'marriage' is not self-evident, and neither is the symbolism itself obvious to us - perhaps Team USA would like to explain what's in a word?!
Rebuttal: More than gay rights

This rebuttal misses our original counter-argument: Legalizing same-sex marriages simply creates a gay-straight dichotomy in marriage; it does not legalize 'ungendered' marriages. That is a different debate. Indeed, Team USA's confusion about 'sex' and 'gender' issues is starkly revealed when they state in their rebuttal: "With the legalization of same sex marriage, gender is no longer an element in the marital equation, therefore sparing intersexed and transgendered individuals the trouble of choosing and declaring a gender to get married." - Gender has NEVER been 'an element in the marital equation'. 'Gender' is a social construction, while 'sex' is a biological category. Marriage debates are about which 'sex' groups can get married - males and females only? Or also same-sex couples? 'Gender' issues would speak to feminitity, masculinity and other behavioural identity types that overlay the physical body of a person. The crux of the social stigma, and legal battles, of intersexed and transgendered persons stem from wider societal prejudices around i) whether or not only two sex categories are ethically acceptable ('natural') and ii) what genders can be accepted, socially and legally, etc. - but NONE OF THESE massive, and legitimate quandaries facing the transgenedered and intersexed communities are dependent on whether same-sex marriage is legal. [ For example, if same-sex marriage is legal, presumably, if proposition is right, "...the trouble of choosing and declaring a gender to get married" would be gone. WHY, if so, in the 7 test cases - i.e. the countries where same-sex marriage IS legal - do we NOT have marriage regimes for intersexed and intergendered persons who refuse to adopt the tired gender categories specified by the law? Clearly, these constitute real world counter-examples to proposition's argument. ] This proposition argument therefore remains a jarring red herring and opposition remains surprised that proposition is persisting in trying to keep it a live issue. Surely not?
Minority Discrimination

To not legalize same-sex marriage is to further perpetuate the problem of minority discrimination that has stained human history. Both of our countries share examples of governments institutionalizing hate and discrimination by enacting laws and decrees upon its minority citizens in various forms that aim to limit and instill inferiority in citizens of minority groups such as Jim and Jane Crow laws and the apartheid [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws]]. Once this feeling of inferiority enters the psychology of minorities, a lack of self worth leads to less economic and social prosperity as well as a denial of one's own identity as they are barraged with the message that they are lesser .[[ http://books.google.com/books?id=CdFfnaGqsMYC&lpg=PP1&ots=zPLrWifLFt&dq=Post-slave%20Psychology&pg=PT27#v=onepage&q=&f=false%5D%5D The time is always now to end this vicious pattern of discrimination against homosexuals citizens. To legalize same sex marriage is to award the right of marriage to every citizen and having citizens be viewed as equals in the eyes of the government. While same-sex marriage is illegal, anti-gay legislation is easily disguised when laws only pertain to married persons, as was the case of Mary Coughlan's amendment in Ireland [[http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0311/gay.html]]. Once it is made legal, government attempts to undercut the rights of same-sex couples will be transparent, and thus more easily dealt with.