LM Classic: Sherlockmethod vs MTGandP

My premise is logical and I will defend it. Choosing Onslaught prior to this well known event was too important to not mention. Cable: Cable has teamed up with a lot of characters, Ghost Rider included. I do not see how this prevents his status as being above street level. Cable is too over powered to be considered on the same level as Batman, Nightwing, and even Wolverine. LM commented on street level several times, but the most significant is this at 187 quoting clockwork, thread below: ‘Important question: When you say "human level" in the street level character requirement, do you mean in terms of species or in terms of abilities? For example, would the Green Lantern (a human) still be considered a "street level" character, even though he very rarely fights other humans/earthlings? ' Abilities. Also, I wouldn't consider Green Lantern to be street level. " Abilities do matter and Cable is too powerful to considered street level. I listed many of his powers and the fact that he has fought along the side of street level characters does not negate his near limitless power. As a matter of fact, the limits to Cable's powers are unknown. (see opponent's source) If Cable is street level, then my entire team is street level. The summation of Con's position concerning Onslaught appears to be that Onslaught is not a collective and if he is then collectives are not against the "official" rules: The official rules were listed AFTER our teams were formed. In the thread prior to the round match ups, I asked some very specific questions. Only two are relevant to this debate. I asked if the city had rats and whether collectives were allowed. (Comment: Sherlockmethod; post 166 . http://www.debate.org... ) From MTGandP (comment 182 above thread) "Yes to rats, no to collectives. " Et tu brute? From LogicalMaster (comment 189 above thread) "No collectives count as one person. Though I may allow you to submit such a team, provided you're prepared to argue that your team abides by the rules as I'm sure others would make the same objection. " I am making that objection. Judges, collectives violate the team guidelines because collectives add members above the 5 member limit. In addition, Onslaught, per my opponent's sources fits the bill for a collective as he is a combination of Professor X, Magneto, Franklin Richards, and X-Man. Onslaught: "[A] sentient combination of the psyches of Professor X and Magneto. " (listed as opponent's source 4; . http://marvel.com... My opponent's second and third sources (listed as 5 and 6) are not official pages and do not provide full info as they are collections from around the net and the listings are purposefully shortened, but each board lists Onslaught as a combination of Prof X and Magneto and the power rating listed for Onslaught putting him at 12 must include the augmenting powers of FR and X-Man. I just don't see a way around it. Con's Onslaught is the one prior to Franklin and X-Man: Even if this is so, the creature is still a collective of Prof X and Magneto. This point aside, how could I possibly have known this? The powers my opponent listed are extrapolated from these four super powered characters and I do not see a way of taking two people out and claiming the same level of telepathy, strength, psychic abilities, etc. I based two rounds of arguments on the premise that Onslaught was this combination and the official source my opponent used verifies this premise. I find nothing unreasonable about concluding such facts considering the source material. My opponent's use of Onslaught in other debates is not relevant to this one. If Onslaught did not include these two, Con should have made the point clear as Franklin provides a necessary weakness in the creature, one I attempted to fully exploit. The powers for Franklin and X-Man are not specifically listed in the fan boards as they are overshadowed by X and Magneto, but are listed in the Marvel Official Page and the fan boards do list the events of Onslaught describing the acquisition of FR and X-Man. I do not see how to separate them and maintain the same level of power. I could not change Ghost Rider from Ketch to Blaze to Vengeance so I made clear the one I was using; Con did not. This fact is too important as it changes Onslaught's level of power. Every source I am seeing includes this event in Onslaught's description. Even removing FR and X-Man, I am still dealing with an illegal team. Rebuttals: Concerning Onslaught's danger my opponent states: "There is no danger. Onslaught is absolutely loyal to me (UTW rule 6), and Superman knows it. " The danger is in the fact that Franklin is part of Onslaught, and loyalty is not the problem, Franklin's inability to create the saving dimensional rift is the issue that makes Onslaught a danger to Superman's friends. Rebuttals: Con tells us Onslaught could mind control Superman making him attack and that Doom's shield could not hold. I fully stated the force shield would collapse if attacked heavily as Doom is not strong enough in the arcane to hold off two beings like Superman and WW, but the shield would slow both down and should hold against Cable until the Hellfire is put up. The shield serves its purpose here, slow them down. Doom is not a shmuck and his magic would hardly make "a little force shield". He has vied for the title of Sorcerer Supreme and made some close runs on it; he can perform the necessary actions for a force shield in this case so as to slow a speed blitz. In addition, my opponent feels that hellfire would not harm his team members, and again tells us Supes and WW are on a completely different level than Ghost Rider. WW and Superman would give pause when consumed by hellfire, which is all I need. WW's bracers are not sufficient to prevent the mystical fire surrounding her. Hellfire is dangerous business and both of these toons do not deal well with arcane powers. Would it kill either? No, probably not, but I just need to slow them down and distract them. Hellfire can perform this function. The force shields are interesting as Cable and Onslaught do not appear to have much in the way of mystical resistance, I do not think the force shield would do well here. I did not commit a logic fallacy concerning the rats, if the rats are gone then so are all others as Doom would have been the only one who lived and was not incapacitated in that scenario. The Penance Stare: This ability is similar to hell fire in damage. The stare does affect emotions but is more along the lines of burning images into one's soul. The psionic shield does not affect this. Wonder Women's disorientation: In the scenario I presented, Doom occupied her body (really no way to write that without sounding dirty) which causes the disorientation, not the equipment loss. Superman disoriented during the Penance Stare: If Supes is disoriented he still has good sight, maybe super human good, but Ghost Rider has stood toe to toe with some very strong demons and villains. In the state I listed, he can administer the stare. He could probably not subdue SM if both are in top form, but the effects of the hellfire or WW's punch would give the Rider the opening he needs.