It Cannot be Shown that The Qur'an is Revelation from God

Rebuttal- Opening Statement + Claim of Rule Breaking Claim of Rule Breaking The first claim that I would like to address is Con’s claim that I broke the rules during my opening statement by providing a rebuttal to his opening statement. The only reason I had included the argument (which Con shows in the previous round) is because it’s a very common line of argumentation that I encounter in these types of debate. In fact (I cannot substantiate this, but it’s not very important), I didn’t even read Con’s opening statement when I started. Plus, to quote from Con, “He rather tries to refute the above argument, which is (almost) the equivalent of my arguments in R1 which I have concluded…” Notice the word ‘almost’? This shows that my argument wasn’t a rebuttal of Con’s, for my argument didn’t fit as a rebuttal for his argument. Also, my argument didn’t address the claims made by Con, as I didn’t argue as to the validity of those specific claims. As you see, saying “X and Y are true, and no one knew it was true before our religious text, thus our religious text is true! ” doesn’t address the specific claims by con, regarding his claims about the universe, fingerprints, and so on. So in conclusion, although a very cheap tactic used by Con, I hope to show how my opening statement wasn’t in fact a rebuttal, but was an argument addressing a common line of argumentation made by many theists. Common Sense Argument-1 Con states “We found” the universe and wonder who its owner is. ” Here, Con is assuming that there is an owner in the first place, an assumption con has yet to substantiate. Motion of Celestial Bodies and Dark Matter For clarity, the whole verse Con refers to is Surah 36:40, which goes as such: It is not allowable for the sun to reach the moon, nor does the night overtake the day, but each, in an orbit, is swimming. . http://quran.com... Neither does it lie in the sun's power to overtake the moon35 nor can the night outstrip the day.36 All glide along, each in its own orbit. . http://www.islamicstudies.info... Asad : [and] neither may the sun overtake the moon, nor can the night usurp the time of day, 21 since all of them float through space [in accordance with Our laws]. Malik : Neither it is possible for the sun to overtake the moon, nor for the night to outstrip the day: each floats along in its own orbit. Pickthall: It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit. Yusuf Ali: It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon nor can the Night outstrip the Day: each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law) . http://www.alim.org... I have provided six different translations for Surah 36:40, for in the third source I provided translations by four different Islamic translators and scholars. Now, a line that is very similar in all of the verses are It is not possible for the sun to overtake the moon. In fact, it is possible for the sun to overtake the moon. When looking at the cycle of any star, one will notice that there’s a phase where the sun turns into a red giant, or into a super red giant (basically the expansion of the sun). So, when that happens, the earth and moon will be enveloped by the sun, resulting in a very fiery death for this planet. Or, if we somehow survive that, there’s the possibility of the sun becoming a black hole. And I truly hope that I don’t need to explain what happens when a black hole is formed. . http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov... I would also like to focus on, what Con talks about, the Qur’an referencing dark matter. Con asserts that the Qur’an talks about dark matter due to it using the (Arabic equivalent) word “swimming”. Now, let’s suppose that we discovered that celestial bodies orbit around each other because the universe is made out of water. Yes, water. Here, the word swimming would apply. Now, let’s suppose that we found out that they move through a material called “the ether”. Here, again, the word swimming would apply. Or we could even say, without dark matter, that the motion of orbit by celestial bodies can be described as swimming, or floating, or many other verbs. You see, the example Con gave was merely the classic case of taking a small detail in a book, and then doing some logical gymnastics or drawing false analogies between an obscure phrase and what is actually in real life. Here, let me show you an example; I predict that, in the future, The United States of America is going to go into another war. Now, if (or rather, when) this prediction comes true, does that mean that I can see into the future? That I’m somehow divine? That I revealed some enormous truth? No. I just made an obscure prediction about the future (for example, war could be extended to mean a number of things. It could be used in both contexts of war in Afghanistan and war on drugs; both mean different things, yet the word war is applicable in both). The Expansion of Space Here, I would first like to cite verse 51: 47 from different translators. Sahih International: And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander. Pickthall: We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof). Yusuf Ali: With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace. Shakir: And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample. Muhammad Sarwar: We have made the heavens with Our own hands and We expanded it. Arberry: And heaven -- We built it with might, and We extend it wide. . http://corpus.quran.com... Now, in these multiple translations, we have the words vastness and expand used predominantly. What I would like to point out is that all the translations that use the word vastness (“we created the vastness of space”) occurred before Hubble’s discovery of an expanding universe, and all the translations that use the word expand came after Hubble’s discovery of an expanding universe. Although there would be a lot to cite here, I encourage you all to go out and see for yourself. In particular, I got my information from biographies of the translators, and the time period in which they lived. Now, of course you will find translations that use the word expand before Hubble, but there also was the usage of the word vastness too. Interesting how there was a consensus among scholars about using the word expand right after Hubble, now, isn’t there? Position of the Stars I find it truly amazing how, given the verse Nay, I swear by the places of the stars. And lo! That verily is a tremendous oath, if ye but knew. (Qur’an, 56:75-76), people can somehow connect this to black holes. Yes, black holes! From Allah swearing on the position of stars! Here’s a test/ question you should conduct/ ask yourself whenever someone claims their religious book revealed something regarding science that no one knew until it’s actual discovery: could you draw the same conclusion given no information other than the one verse? If Allah revealed x to us, why didn’t we discover x much earlier on than we discovered it? Also, I want everyone to do what I said. Take the verse Nay, I swear by the places of the stars. And lo! That verily is a tremendous oath, if ye but knew, and using no other scientific information that was available at that time, come to the conclusion about the existence of black holes. Go on, do it. You see, this is yet another case of people changing the context of their religious texts just to confirm their bias that it’s true. What you should do is, instead of working from what we already know, and then giving context to the Qur’an, look at the actual verses of the Qur’an, and then see what they tell us about the universe. Nothing much, now, do they? Fingerprints Using the verse Does man think that We will not assemble his bones? Yes. [We are] Able [even] to proportion his fingertips. (Qur’an, 75:3-4), let me attempt to come to a different conclusion than what Con came to. It talks about fingertips because they are very small, and thus are talking about how “they” assembled everything in the body, from the large (the skeletal structure) to the small (the fingertips). And notice how the verse doesn’t say anything about fingerprints. It just talks about fingertips. Yet another example of how people extend/ change the context of verses to make it appear true in light of modern science. Conclusion Although I’m aware that I barely addressed Con’s rebuttals, I intend to do so in the next round.