LM Classic: mongeese vs iamadragon

"Technically, because the rock is unusable, it is already defeated." Here's the definition of unusable: http://www.thefreedictionary.com... Neither of those really provides a clear answer. What does it mean to "use" something? http://www.thefreedictionary.com... "1. To put into service or apply for a purpose; employ." (side note: that site is awesome; you can double click on any word in a definition and find a definition for that word.) Certainly, a rock can be "used." I can use a rock for many things. More importantly, I can use the rock in such a way that does not require any outside influence on the rock. I could use it to hold something down. I could use it for scenery. Anyway, I'm getting a bit off-topic, but generally, rocks can be used. Now, in the context of the battle, I am using the rock. I'm using it simply by having it on my team. I'm using it in a battle where I am trying to maintain my characters before you fail to maintain yours (meaning, keep my characters undefeated longer than you can keep yours undefeated.) The rock is there; I want the rock there because it's on my team; therefore, I am using the rock. The rock is being used. The rock is usable. Now, applying this to my philosophy: the rock, being a non-living thing, is being used by me simply by existing. As long as the rock exists, I am using it. Therefore, it is not being rendered unusable, and therefore, it has not been defeated. "See Video 1 (1:10). Quite a large range, but far from infinite." Hilarious video, but where's the limit? "Kirby cannot swallow excessively large objects, like the monsters usually imported by King Dedede. However, he will eat the small ones." OK, I think that'll work. "What? As interesting as this is to know, it serves no purpose to this debate." I said that to provide an easier-to-understand idea of how large the "pointers" on the Ring are. "The answer is magic. It always is. If Yugi wants to know where the atom is, then the Millennium Ring will point in the general direction of the atom. Sure, the location would not be exact, but I would be able to narrow the atom's location down to a few square feet, allowing Kirby to easily eat it if necessary." Alright. Now you'll have to explain why the atom has been defeated if it's been swallowed. "If that does not work, I can always have Link ride on Kirby's Warp Star and hang Kirby off of the side using the Clawshot. Link can then use Kirby as a vacuum-cleaner, taking him all over New York City, eating everything he possibly can. The atom stands no chance." Is there any limit to Kirby's stamina? "Oh. You're using a giant rock. By my opponent's picture, it seems that he is using Ayer's [sic] Rock. However, Ayer's Rock is extremely large. I doubt that it would actually fit in New York City, especially when it is 1,142 ft. tall [2], and the highest point in New York City is 1,250 feet high [3], Ayer's Rock would have to be located in a large expanse with no building or construction that would tilt Ayer's Rock out of the zone allowed. I doubt that this is even possible." I just looked back over the LM Classic thread [1], and no height stipulation was every decided upon either by Logical-Master or by us... so, I'm going to go ahead and say that there is none. In fact, you suggested [1] a mile above the highest object in the city. A mile is 5280 feet. [2] The highest point in NYC plus the height of Uluru is 2,392 (mental math) feet, which is far less than a mile. "However, the rock would be rendered unusable by Team CON, and therefore, the rock would be defeated." Refuted above. I am still using the rock. "Link uses Bomb Arrows to break Ayer's Rock down into smaller pieces that can be consumed by Kirby. Because eating the rock makes it unusable, the rock is defeated once Kirby eats said smaller pieces." A few things. 1. Link does not have an unlimited number of Bomb Arrows. I believe the most he can carry in Twilight Princess is 30 bombs per bag + 3 bags = 90 bombs. Are 90 bombs enough to reduce all of Uluru into an eatable size? 2. I showed why the rock is still rendered unusable. 3. Law of Conservation of Mass. [3] Breaking the rock into smaller pieces does mean that Kirby would have an easier time swallowing them all, but the total mass remains unchanged. Can Kirby really swallow so much? Where's the limit? "Or, Midna could levitate Ayer's Rock, and move it out of New York City, instantly defeating it." Rule 15 [1]: "15) Teleporting out of NYC is prohibited." I don't believe Logical-Master ever clarified on this rule. Someone, later in the thread, suggested that the rule implies that a team member cannot be defeated simply be being forcibly removed from NYC. I'll apply the rule the same way. "For one thing, Atem does not age while in the Millennium Puzzle." But he is trapped in the Puzzle without Yugi, "unusable" in the sense that a living character would be unusable. "So, you see, I do not command my team. I just explain why it would win." This is somewhat of a semantical argument, and, I believe, a direct twisting of the rule's intent. The rule clearly means that a team member cannot physically assist his team in battle. Anyway, here's another rule [4]: "6. Team members are absolutely loyal to the team leader..." Besides the obvious implication that killing the team leader would result in not being loyal, these rules go hand-in-hand to show that the team members only act when ordered. Without a team leader, they don't do anything. "Of course, I could be left as the last person to eliminate, thus allowing me to issue commands for after I am defeated." Finally, without the team leader, how can mongeese's team win? It isn't even mongeese's team. I think that in this kind of a battle, it's a clear implication that the team leader guides his team to victory and thus, obviously, must be alive at the end to claim victory. I have refuted all of my opponents refutations; thus, my original strategies are legitimate and prevail. [1]http://www.debate.org... [2]http://en.wikipedia.org... [3]http://en.wikipedia.org... [4]http://www.debate.org...