The Book of Mormon is Scripture

"Though temples are places of ORDINANCES, they are not groups of people, nor are specific groups of people assigned to them. Churches and then Stakes are...And just because you believe Joseph Smith was a child doesn't mean comic books are written by children." -It is foolish of you to attempt to even imply this has anything at all to do with this debate. I understand you are probably angry because you cannot address my points, but that doesn't mean you should grab at the most casual statements I have made in analogy- especially when they in no way impact the veracity of my arguments. "By the way, Christianity as a whole IS an Abrahamic religion." -Ummm... I am the one who made that assertion. Thanks for letting me know you are at least skimming through my responses. "Whether or not YOU believe Mormons are Christian is a debate I've already won, and will not repeat with you." -Again, you are implying this implied statement(implied by your own inference, not mine) has anything to do with my arguments. This was your last argument... you should have at least tried to have substance rather than bring up things very impertinent to this debate. "We, though, DO believe in being resurrected- and, because, as you've already stated, no one knows their language, for all you know it could be etymologically connected." -We do have traces of their language- their names and what they called the places they frequented. I have already shown how the names- ie. Moroni, have no etymological link to ancient Hebrew (at least none implied by any prior scripture, and/or my opponents own assertions). The claim that these Hebrews from the first century BC spoke an unknown, undocumented, and previously unheard of variation to a very known language- Egyptian- and there is absolutely no trace of this language is just not rational. "If your status as a messenger of God has to be judged by your name, though, it seems that science has little to do with it." -Etymology is the science or study of words, and has everything to do with the lack of veracity to the claims made by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and variations thereof. Your entire religion is based on a translation, and you will deny the importance of knowing the origins of language, words, and names??? "Joseph Smith was not allowed to share the Plates with anyone- when he shared even a portion with a loyal and trusted friend, it was lost forever." -That's not true. You are adjusting the story to fit your argument. Joseph Smith "revealed" the plates to a "group" of trusted individuals under pressure to provide proof of the origin of his claims (the 11 Witnesses: 3 Witnesses, 8 Witnesses). According to early church leaders like Oliver Cowdrey, Joseph Smith and a few others returned the plates to a cave in Cumorah Hill after the translations. They are not "lost forever" as you claim. What was lost was "the Book of Lehi" which was written on 116 pages that were "lost" and "destroyed". Because Joseph Smith felt he was being baited into retranslating the book, he refused to ever translate the Book of Lehi and instead replaced it with an abridgement from yet another plate. Mmmhmm... "Though he did bring it to a language specialist somewhere.... but it's meaningless anyway." -You mean the language specialist that later denounced him? You mean Professor Charles Anthon who on Feb. 17, 1834 wrote a letter denouncing the claim by Joseph Smith and others that he had validated the language on the golden plates as "reformed egyptian hieroglyphics"? "Also, if you remember, there were huge wars, earthquakes, fires, cities sinking into seas... all kinds of destruction that you must have read about, and we don't know what else the Lamanites did, or even what happened to them." -But yet we have much evidence of the Olmecs who existed around the same time frame claimed in the BoM about these other civilizations! Not only that, but the LDS claims that the Native Americans are descendants of these civilizations, not that these civilizations were erased off the face of the earth! The BoM peoples have a seven day week- inconsistent with any Mesoamerican calendar. The BoM refers to the following things that did not exist in Pre-Columbian America, and would have been here when the Spaniards arrived: mule, bull, calf, cattle, cow, domestic goat, horse, ox, domestic sheep, sow, swine, elephants, wheat, and barley. They had: chariots, steel swords, bellows for blacksmithing, and silk. Yet none of these things were present in America and NO anthropological evidence of their existence has ever been found. "Actually, if we look at that, Steel is a metal almost exclusively European." -First of all, the Old Testament is translated from a known language. The fact that the translators knew of steel only allowed for them to substitute that word for what they knew metallurgists to use in weapons making. As you said- Steel is almost exclusively European- your argument which serves my point. The bible was translated by Europeans. The actual word translated as steel is "copper"(Heb. kesheth-nehushah) as there was not a word for brass (though they probably were referring to brass). Since we can' examine "reformed egyptian", noone can say if Joseph Smith made the same mistake (except for his claim that his translation was divine, and therefore infallible). Thanks for bringing this up! "Lamanites, the actual forbears of the Native Americans" -Let's examine THIS claim then, because earlier you stated the civilizations were destroyed and therefore there would BE no trace of them. But if they are the forebears and they are descendants of Laman, which the BoM claims to have been a Hebrew, why do the Native Americans have no Semitic DNA??? Why do they in fact have Siberian/Asian DNA as science and anthropology actually suggest they should??? "a great deal of information was tragically lost." -How convenient... "The Lamanites were not under the favor of God at all, and didn't make any discoveries since all good stems from his inspiration." -Then they couldn't have been the "forebears of the Native Americans" who had very advanced technology. Native Americans built great Pyramids like the Egyptians, they created the most accurate calendar, and they mapped the stars accurately. Either they were not on bad terms with God, or they were not Lamanites. Either way the truth contradicts your statement. "Finally, you said miracles don't have anything to do with this- I say they do....I mean, look already at what our science has done to mutilate religion." -This isn't about miracles because miracles don't have to be irrational. God would not create the irrational miracle of erasing every trace of 4 different civilizations descended from his chosen people in another land (as he did not erase the existence of any civilization named or referred to in the bible). It would be an irrational "miracle" to say there are animals in America that did not exist here until recently. Your miracle argument is irrational, as you would have to believe the entire BoM is a magical book of mystical beings long gone and that is not what your church teaches. You are simply altering the scope of the argument because you have no rational answers to my questions and findings. Look, it is historical fact that Joseph Smith was a "treasure hunter", and that he had previously swindled people out of money using "seer stones". Joseph Smith even translated "The Kinderhook Plates" which were a forgery. The Plates are mentioned in the History of your Church, and it is documented that they were a forgery. There is a host of things inconsistent with reality found in the BoM: culture, metallurgy, animals, crops, geography, script, races- all things that have scientifically verified at least SOME claims in nearly every religion. Science has not verified ANY of the above named items in the BoM. To Be Continued...