Ultimate Team War - Gateway Planet 2

Thanks to mongeese for an excellent round- although I think my case is stronger, I'll concede a number of fair points on his side. 1. Hit 'em fast and hard Since Charizard immediately uses Skull Bash at the same time as Bowser uses his mushroom to try and suck in the two girls, it is doubtful Bowser would realise what Charizard is doing and have time to counter, especially since Bowser is quite a slow and clumsy fighter and would be concentrating on the two girls. If Charizard launched himself quickly, Bowser wouldn't have time to defend himself. If he did manage it, although I'll concede the possibility that the two would cancel each other out, the collision of the two attacks would knock the two combatants apart so Bowser wouldn't be able to follow up with a punch. If this happened, Charizard would hold Bowser while Sakura went around behind him, grabbed his tail and tossed him out of the arena. Meanwhile, Peach would engage the two twins, blowing them out of the arena with Joy. The flame pipe is just the area inside Bowser that allows him to breathe fire- http://www.mariowiki.com... , it doesn't go anywhere towards supporting the view that Bowser could survive being flamed from the inside out. Bowser's throat might be flame resistant, but there is no reason to suppose all his internal organs would be. Charizard is heading straight towards Bowser at this point, so if the shroom sucked him in (and Pro STILL hasn't given any evidence that it can be used in that way), he would be positioned with his long head down Bowser's throat, choking him and in perfect position to unleash a barrage of flames. No evidence supports Pro's claim that Bowser can double his weight. Bowser must be able to flip in the air to initiate it, which he would not be able to do while captured by Charizard. Again, Charizard tosses Bowser right at the edge of the planet- Bowser is unlikely to have the incredible timing required to ground pound right away. Besides, Charizard could just lift Bowser so he is just out of the arena without letting go of him. Then Bowser would be disqualified and Charizard could continue. Alright, I'll concede that Mario is stronger than I gave him credit for, but I think it's an over exaggeration to claim that Charizard is weaker than Mario. It's difficult to get an appraisal of what Charizard's limit it, but it isn't a stretch to say that it would be very high, considering his large bulk and ability to carry large objects (like Blastoise) without apparent effort. Mario wouldn't be able to help Charizard, because he would already be engaged by Sakura and Peach by this point. If he tried it, Sakura would either simply jump up and knock him out the air, or throw kunai at him. Bowser would still lift Sakura and Peach at the beginning, before he realised what Charizard was doing. There is no way Mario and Luigi could be fast enough to knock down all the rubble with hammers. Sakura would cause widespread devastation around them, so they wouldn't be able to jump far enough away to avoid it. Bowser would already be eliminated by Charizard, one way or another, and if Bowser did make it back Sakura could just grab him by the tail and toss him off the planet. She would know about Bowser's technique by now and would stay behind him to avoid it. I would like to see some evidence that the twins are fast enough to avoid all attacks thrown at them. As far as I can tell, from SSBB and other games, the twins aren't any faster than other characters, and can't even jump that high. They wouldn't be able to avoid an unexpected attack from above. Any hammers brought on Sakura would be smashed apart, any attempt to jump on Sakura's head would be met by grabbing his leg and being tossed from the arena. As soon as the twin get close to Sakura, they would be tossed from the arena immediately. Bowser is already defeated. If he did somehow manage to eat the two girls, Sakura could just use her immense strength to bust them out, then toss Bowser off the planet. 2. Operation Shield. Bowser would be incinerated from the inside out. Even if the twins could avoid Peach using their (alleged) speed, she could just use joy to blow them off the planet. Additionally, while avoiding they would be wide open for Charizard's attack. If the twins did manage to let off a mighty meteor, it would be unlikely to finish them off in only one attack, doesn't always work, and Pro has given no evidence that it could not be dodged. Charizard could let off an overheat against it to counter it. Again, from my experience Bowser is quite a slow and clumsy fighter, for instance allowing Mario to run circles around him in battle, or being unable to counter Mario's jump attacks in Bowser's inside story. He is simply hindered by his size, even if raw power is enough to overcome Fawful's henchmen. If Bowser retreated into his shell, it would be child's play for either Charizard or Sakura to remove him from the arena, because he would be defenseless. Bowser would not be able to counter all of Charizard's physical attacks, and Charizard has an aerial advantage that he can use to smash into Bowser from above. The twins are already eliminated, one way or another at this point, and if they did try to help Peach would stop them by blowing them away with Joy. I certainly never said that Sakura's healing powers are unlimited. All I said was that she could continue doing for an almost indefinite amount of time barring interference. She cannot do so forever, and nor can she heal grievous wounds immediately. Besides, she must give up all her own battle usefulness while doing so, so it is hardly an above street level ability. Peach's Calm creates a bubble that heals the things inside it. There is no reason in theory that she should not be able to do it. If she couldn't then she could just use rage and come to Charizard's aid in battle, eventually overwhelming the Koopa. Mario and Luigi are eliminated at this point, and even if they weren't Sakura would just toss them from the arena, and then proceed to grab bowser's tail and finish him. Or Peach could engage them while Sakura does so. Flaws 1a. The warp pipe on the planet reaches all the way from one end to the other, unlike other pipes which teleport people. This is evidenced by the fact that you see Mario's shadow moving from one end of the planet to the other when you jump into it. The pipe is far too big for Bowser to eat/inhale. Even if it weren't we still couldn't see how far it goes underground, so Pro cannot say that it is shorter than Mario. 1b. By the same token, Sakura's immense strength means that if any of Team Pro's characters let their guard down for a second they would be smashed from the arena. Besides, Sakura, upon seeing Bowser's ability, would be careful not to get caught. She could avoid it easily by using clone techniques to fool Bowser. 2m. Yeah, but Mario Kart is a spin off game with no story element. It hardly counts as evidence for the willingness of characters to do things. Pro's evidence from the subspace emissary is irrelevant as already shown. In MK, character's spawn again totally unharmed, and unburned by lava. Again, different rules apply there than in this match. All of Pro's team's hesitance to attack Peach would lead to constant hesitating, while Peach would have no trouble attacking Bowser. This would give a decisive advantage to team Con. 2I. Uh, how do you know? The attack sends enemies pretty far in the game. Even if it didn't it would blow away anyone near, eliminating them for the time being. So whatever strategy was being carried out would be finished and then they could be turned back too. 2ssb. I have already provided evidence-you are just ignoring it. Sakura would just say she is attacking Bowser, or would be careful not to harm the twins. None of my plans really hinge on Peach anyway. The twins are tossed, not knocked out, so no retry clock.