Mormons are Christians

Bdollhall, I'm terribly sorry I wasn't able to write in time. I wrote my response but when I got home to submit it, I had run out of time. I'll simply copy and paste what I wrote for the last round and write my last words after that: """Wow once again there's so much to discuss! Haha I hope I can get to all of it! You make a good point from the definition I used about Christians. However, if you went up to any atheist and asked them if they follow the teachings of Jesus Christ they would say no. They do not believe he died for the sins of mankind. Muslims do not believe that either. I am not an expert on Jehovah witness doctrine but as far as I know they do believe Jehovah died for their sins (correct me if I'm wrong). The point I was trying to make is that if someone is sincerely trying to follow Jesus Christ and His teachings, then they are Christians. Although someone or others may consider their following of those teachings an incorrect interpretation, they, with their heart, are trying to live as they think Christ would want them to live. As such, I believe Mormons are Christians as well as the other 30,000 denominations. And yes you are correct that in a general study of Christianity, Mormonism is one of the 30,000. (Something else to note: World Religions classes on a college level teach that Mormonism is a sect of Christianity). As for the proper order of baptism, yes it is crucial! Not only must it be done as Christ taught, but also with His prescribed authority given to man! "And again the Lord called others... and he gave unto them POWER to baptize. And he said unto them: On this wise shall ye baptize; AND THERE SHALL BE NO DISPUTATIONS AMONG YOU" (3 Nephi 11:22, emphasis added). God has asked that we do things in a specific way. Who are we to say that they need not be performed in the manner He has asked? Recall when Paul went up to Ephesus in Acts 19. He asked by what manner the people had been baptized and they said, well the same way that John baptized. Paul then declared the proper manner of baptism and in verse 5, "they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." Why would it be necessary to baptize them again if they had already been baptized? This doesn't suggest that people who are baptized in other faiths are evil or aren't receiving blessings for further dedicating themselves to Christ, but it does show that God is a god of order and as such, has prescribed a specific manner in which we must do things. As far as worshipping Christ and the Father, I feel like the doctrine is clear that they are truly one together! That to worship Christ is to worship God! I feel like the scriptures support such a claim, however, to each is entitled his opinion. Referring once again to John 4:24, this may very well depend on which translation of the Bible we use, however, in the KJV of the Bible, it states, "God is a spirit" and in the preceding verse, Christ states, "But the hour cometh...when the true worshippers shall WORSHIP the Father IN SPIRIT and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him." Context here helps to see why Jesus would declare that God is a spirit, for we are to worship Him in spirit. But all men are spirits! To reference Moses 3 verse 5 once again it states, "For I, the Lord God, created all things, of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth..." All things have spirits as well as bodies. Why would God be beneath His creations and only have a spirit? Surely He would abide by His own laws? And of course, man is simply IN THE IMAGE of God. This does not mean to suggest that our bodies are like unto God's in perfection, merely the same image. Going to the Hebrew roots is a wonderful way to understand better the scriptures. However, this goes back to the scripture when Christ says that He and the Father are one. Using a singular noun in no way disregards that Christ was part of the creation as a separate being, because either way, it was performed as if it were one person. I find it extremely difficult, even from scriptural evidence alone, to accept the idea of the Trinity. There are too many scriptures to suggest otherwise. I'll just mention a few examples. 1) Matthew 3:16-17 with emphasis added, "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God DESCENDING LIKE A DOVE, and lighting upon him: And lo A VOICE FROM HEAVEN, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." All 3 members of the godhead are referenced in completely different places. How could the Holy Spirit descend upon Jesus if they were one and the same? How could a voice come from heaven when Christ is standing in the water? 2) Acts 7:56 when Stephen is being stoned, "...Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God." How can Christ stand on the right hand of himself? A quick side not here is that is says HAND of God. Why would it reference a physical property of a human form if God did not, in fact, have human form? 3)1 Timothy 2:5, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" It very clearly references Christ and God as distinctly separate: the mediator being Jesus Christ. Okay I'll quickly talk about modern-day prophets. The president of the Church absolutely is the prophet! And absolutely does receive revelation for the church! However, he is also entitled to his opinion, as well as the apostles, and as well as any member of the church. Declared doctrine is in the canonized scripture and general conference addresses given to the church every 6 months. Books OR quotes taken outside of this context are not declared doctrine. Many are true! But even the apostles have different opinions about some things. Heck, even in the Bible the apostles disagreed on things! Hope this helped to clarify that point. I don't have time to talk about Mormon's beliefs on the entire plan of salvation. I wish I could and perhaps we can have a separate discussion on that another time, but I promise you though that everything Mormons believe coincides perfectly with what Jesus taught! All men have been redeemed through the merits of Jesus Christ and through Christ alone as you have said. And yet, by how we live, we decide how much of that sacrifice we are willing to participate in. But to Christ, not living with God IS Hell! How would it feel to live for eternity knowing the blessing you could have had if you had simply accepted? As great as the glories are that God has prepared for man, there is a pain and torment in knowing you could have had more. Well that's all I have time for now. I look forward to the last round! Best wishes.""" That wasround 4. I'll briefly talk about the points you made in round 5. First: you are correct in saying the translations we have today very accurately reflect what they were translated from. However, I am quite surprised you failed to mention (or perhaps weren't aware) that hundreds of records of prophets were lost. Simply reading the Old Testament will give dozens of references to books that don't exist in our bible today. (i.e. 2 Chronicles 9:29) Surely you're aware of the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD, where highly appointed religious leaders came together and voted on doctrines of God: let me repeat that: they VOTED on doctrines of God. This, to me, is in and of itself blasphemous (surely only God can say what His own doctrine is). During the council, disagreements arose, parties split, other churches formed, and have been forming for centuries. Other similar councils were conducted in Chalcedon (425 AD), Nicaea (787 AD), and Trent (1545 AD). Nephi's prophecy was so clearly true that many, many records were taken away or incorrectly interpreted by churches around the world. He wasn't referring to the monks who did the actual translation. As for Alma's prophecy, you have to remember that these people are on the opposite side of the world in a relatively primitive society. The only thing they know of the other side of the world is that their fathers came from Jerusalem which was sacred to the Jews. They didn't know Israel's geography. Had Alma said Bethlehem, the people would have had no idea what he was talking about. For all they knew, that could be a future city in their own land. Saying Jerusalem gave them a reference point and something they could relate to. As for the revelation given to Joseph, I'm glad you mentioned that because I hadn't thought about it that way before. However, the prophecy given that a temple will erected in Independence WILL happen. Don't forget Christ's words to the Jews in John 2:19, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." The Jews misinterpreted His prophecy and used it against Him later. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss a prophecy simply because it doesn't occur in the way we think it should. As for the validity of the Book of Mormon, I tell you now that it is true. I have not read a book that has brought me so close to God. I promise if you read it with the desire to know Christ, you will be so very enriched and enlightened. I will say this though. No man, book, or literature can answer the deep questions of the soul. The only way to truly know if something is true is to ask God Himself. Just as one can pray to God to know that Jesus Christ is their Lord and their Redeemer, so can one pray to God to know if the Book of Mormon is true. I have had the opportunity to do so and stand as a witness that it is true! With every fiber of my being, I testify that it is true! God has appointed a prophet on the earth once again just as He did in times of old. Christ is our Savior and has provided a way for us to live with Him again. I'm so pleased to see your devotion to God. I believe that it's devotion like that that will save this country and save men's souls. Thanks for the wonderful discussion. God bless.