BeIR/webis-touche2020 huggingface dataset:
Government Presence in the Pensions Sector Reduces Quality of Pension Services

Crowding out is not the same as blocking or preventing private companies to provide pension. The fact that the public provision of pension is preferred over private; even though as the proposition has articulated that option is available goes to prove that the perceived quality of government pensions is greater than that of private. This rather weak argument that pension should be privatized on the sole basis that Private providers cannot 'handle the competition' provided by Public providers needs to be revised extensively. [[Mishkin&Eakins(also cited earlier, same book different page) pg584]] Stock market failure in 2000(Specifically falling stock prices in the 2000-2002 period) wised people up to the problems with privatization. 70%+ private pension plan assets are based in the rather unreliable stock market. "The biggest obstacle to privatization is that funds diverted into private accounts will not be available to pay current retiree's benefits.This exacerbates the problem rather than solving it." analysts suggest the cost of a fully-privatized pension plan would be unaffordable(whereabouts 100 billion U.S.D) People retiring today will only receive a 2.2% return and a 30-yr-old employee will literally lose money in absolute terms upon retirement. Insurance companies are being crowded out by Private pension funds. Both institutions assume risk for their customers in exchange for a fee called a premium. The premium is lower for private pension funds.Public pension plans are preferred over both insurance and private pension funds, for the reason that they do not call for any such fee in exchange for no risk at all. Lower cost and greater security seem to be the dependable impetus to people's preference/choice.
Pakistan Summary

Simply put; we the opposition, were debating against the complete privatization of pension funds in countries/nations that do not currently have complete privatization in this area. We repetitively brought the attention of the readers to the difference between market-based and bank-based economies to garner an understanding of why this policy/act has worked in certain European countries and will not work for countries such as the U.S,U.K and Chile for the simple reason that they are market-based economies; that cannot realistically afford further privatization without amassing insurmountable risk for the now aging baby boomers(more babies than ever before, were born from 1946 to 1955) and for those who are fairly young at this time. Whenever the public has been pushed to handle her finances; sign vague thus auspicious contracts and understand financial jargon independently; there have been problems (Accountants are famous for running off with financially unread rich people's money; Enron shuts down, no employee gets retirement benefits, insurance policies are canceled on a day to day basis, 401(k) plans force customers out etc). The added problem with privatizing all pension funds is that people will not be able to resort to the risk-free government option [(e.g zero-risk bonds);which incidentally as stated in Mishkin&Eakins has a higher payout than what private pension funds can potentially offer.] Women/racial-minorities/the-disabled will also suffer because they tend to have lower salaries and employment rates; private pension is contingent upon work. Also, the government will have to take money out of other sectors (a large chunk from aid for the disadvantaged in the U.S) to pay the private sector; for the debt Govt.s take on to privatize pension funds. The proposition has given no argument to favor privatization of pension-funds/securities in market-based economies except for the hypothetical self-regulation and balancing out of the market in the long run. Sadly such has never happened in the past; the damage during the short run has caused governments to resort to banks and themselves at the end of the day. Removing public pension funds entirely strips us of that last resort option. We cannot afford to wait for the long run; which may, (given our history) never come. While offering a certain amount of private pension funds is okay; removing entirely the Govt. fallback option is unacceptable. Last but not least we have been criticized for being patronizing and would like to clarify that being caught in the whirlwind of financial bunkum does not make anyone weak/silly but that we believe the risk is too great no matter how savvy a person is, we want the surety/insurance that we will be taken care of in our old age rather than hope/optimism which may not follow through when we get there. Private pension funds take away the certainty of future return and according to reliable sources give a lower return when they do pay up.
State involvement in pensions is deleterious to both pensioners and the state.

Ruling out the option of resorting to public pension funds by privatizing pension funds altogether removes competition. Presently we have both private and public pension funds competing with each other in terms of quality,cost,revenue and public trust. If public pension funds were replaced entirely by private options as the proposition is suggesting (but somehow seems not to be aware of it) then there would be no tussle of the sort glorified on the left; forcing quality from competition. We reiterate crowding out is not equivalent to removing contest/opposition from existing private pension funds altogether. Total privatization of pension funds is however counter-conducive to competitive productivity. Removing the prime/best contender (public pension funds) will not logically improve matters. Teresa G's book "when I'm sixty four" is an understandable hyper-critical rhetoric on the flaws of the privatisation/privatization of social securities.Enron is a notorious example of the scathing damage that moves reverting to privatization especially in America can result in. [[http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8608.html]] The answer is to push for greater savings, better government/public pension plans not to go back to a system comprising solely of highly risky failed constructs(total privatization of pension funds) that we have suffered enough for; to date. [[http://www.plastic.dsl.pipex.com/unison/public.html]] 401 K plans are a private pension fund operated currently in the united states. They are flawed in three areas one: they are generally post tax; so that a smaller percentage of your income(income minus taxes) counts to your pension, two: the payment is generally fixed; withdrawals are difficult when permitted. And most importantly failure to make one payment or paying a lower installment than required means being forced out(90% 401k plans have this).I.e all previous installments are taken by the economically self-interested corp supposed to provide pension.
Greece Summary

Our definition applied to developed liberal democracies, allowing for a greater scope of debate on the suitability of private and public systems unhindered by any local particularities but taking into account various cases. The proposition has illustrated that government is unsuited to running pensions schemes because of its structual short-sightedness and lack of motivation to plan for the future at the expence of the present. This point was never seriously contended by the opposition, other than to say that private firms also have private incentives. The ability of government schemes to run at massive losses and push costs into the future is highly detrimental to the development of competitive pension systems that target the general public. This reduces choice and prevents private pensions schemes from developing sufficiently to counter government programs under the status quo. The opposition has misinterpreted this as an inability to stand up to competition, however, there is no competition when one of the competitors can massively subsidize failing programs for decades at end. Private enterprise given proper regulation is more suited to long-term planning. Private firms have an incentive to protect their assets and plan for the long-term in a way that policy-makers don't. Apart from the fact that executive teams tend to stay in office more than most governments the interplay between stakeholders, management and regulators is such as to dissuade overly risky moves. The opposition countered this by claiming that the absence of government would disincentivize investors, which, apart from missing the point, is not true as shown by the UK private sector. By conceding, that privatization would work in most of Europe they, at least partly, accepted the three above arguments. It focused its case on the issue of riskiness. Giving two examples over the last century it tried to show that markets are fundamentaly unstable. We explained that both these crises were caused by lacking or faulty government intervention and are not characteristic of markets in general. This system is less risky in that it allows government to target those in real need and the few cases of market failure whereas now we have a debt-ridden government and massive pension poverty as the government in the long-run can't provide what it keeps promising pensioners. We presented the benefits of privatization for both the government in fulfilling its role and pensioners finding higher, reliable pensions that suit their personal needs. Lastly, we showed that state pensions are unsustainable for demographic reasons. We were accused of being opposed to longer lifespans. All we are saying is that we need to solve the issues this creates with pensions so that governments can focus on healthcare for example. It is because the status quo is unsustainable, fails pensioners and cripples governments and privatisation clearly works that we are proud to stand in proposition to this motion.
Germany,france and Italy: economies where privatisation works because Unions and banking trump over risky finacial markets; the most unreliable being the Stock market that both the U.S and U.K depend on in private funding ventures.

Federal Reserve Board records of the last 100 years prove that the best investment by far is in stocks. In comparison, these investments make bonds, treasury bills appear meaningless. But we can substantiate our claim that stock markets are unreliable and can fall sharply.The Wall Street Crash of 1929 is a perfect example of how capricious the stock market can be.On August 24, 1921, the Dow Jones Industrial Average stood at a value of 63.9 and by September 3, 1929, it had risen more than sixfold, touching 381.2. However on October 29, 1929(also known as the Black Tuesday) the Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 38 points to 260, a drop of 12.8%. Within two days the Dow Jones Industrial Average fell by 23%. [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_market_crash]] Furthermore, the stock market crash on October 19,1987, a date also known as Black Monday, was the greatest single-day loss that Wall Street had ever suffered in continuous trading up to that point. Between the start of trading on October 14 to the close on October 19, the DJIA lost 760 points, a decline of over 31 percent.The U.K and U.S are market based economies as such depend on the rather unpredictable market extensively. We need an alternative mechanism to handle unprecedented blows to the market.This is provided by government-bank sponsored entities such as security commissions, reserves and the central bank. If we remove public pension funds/schemes unlike Germany,Italy,France and Japan; a market crash will be impossible to absorb. The four countries mentioned are bank-based economies they are not largely dependent on the goings on of financial markets rather they are dependent on regulations, banks and most business decisions, declines and successes are made via the banking system and not through stock valuation. Ups and downs in the market do not effect/affect them considerably. They can privatize pension funds entirely without worry over the effect on their economy: Over-privatization is a non-issue.
Twelve reasons why privatizing social security is a bad idea

Most of what is mentioned in our ref links has already been noted by the opposition; such as no protection from stock market losses,superior reliability/dependability of public funds; the U.K and U.S are market-based economies, self-interests of corporations(wall-street), people young now as well as baby-boomers will get less money for greater risk and so forth. We will now consider the link-points we haven't yet made: Govt. salaries will be reduced; Infamous Fact: There is no money in the public sector; reducing Govt. Pay will aggravate this issue. The U.S' experience [[http://www.nea.org/home/16546.htm]] reveals that many people fail to understand even the most basic aspects of investment and that most make bad investment decisions (eg. not diversifying investments: asset portfolio diversification is necessary to neutralize risk:basic logic behind mutual funds) [[Alicia Munnell, "We've Already Tried Private Accounts!" in The American Prospect , January 2005]] Disability funds will be dramatically cut by 19-45%; most of us get disabled in old age.[[http://www.tcf.org/Publications/RetirementSecurity/12badideas.pdf]] (we are not being patronizing as the prop suggests only reiterating fact). The U.S government will be indebted to the private sector; given the debt she's already taking on:This is not a good idea.(bad idea 3); people who are young now will get lower retirement pay or not get any if the market is down.(bad idea 9) Women+minority-races work less,live longer and earn less; privatizing securities will damage future prospects for minorities considerably.(point 10+11) Tax payers will not bail retirees; again we've already mentioned this lack of security. (point 12) We see the proposition as being confused about how we've defined the debate. We repeat: we are not including bank-based economies because they are not relevant having already employed this policy and having a different F.S from that of the nations(market-based) who need to make this choice.
Government Presence in the Pensions Sector Reduces Quality of Pension Services

Bill Owens Government can‘t create wealth but it can create the conditions for private enterprise to flourish. The presence of government in the pensions sector, as in most others, "crowds-out" private providers of pensions. Private providers of pensions are supported only by their pension funds with occasional risk-sharing with other financial services. This forces them to make realistic and sustainable choices as to the rates they change and the level of pensions they give out. Governments, however, are able to mask inefficiencies, corruption and unsustainable practices by drawing on taxes and be such means as increasing the retirement age as has happened in Greece.[[http://www.commonwealthfoundation.org/research/detail/health-care-reform]] This renders most pension practices uncompetitive, forcing them to specialize in client niches as the bulk of the population is bought off by promises of high pensions by the government which are unfeasible and lead to measures such as the increasing of the retirement age, stealth taxes which in the whole leave pensioners in a worse off position than under a properly regulated market. The inherent lack of competition of the pension sector reduces choice and quality of services. The effect the government sector has on pensions is similar to the "crowding out" of private options observed in the healthcare sector. [[Ibid.]]The long-term nature of pension funds aggravates this situation by pushing back costs into the long-run. While the government remains active in the provision of pensions other public services will be unable to fully develop and make use of their increased efficiency and flexibility. This is not to say that there is not a legitimate role for government. In support of this motion we advocate a gradual privatization of pension schemes with a phase-out of public schemes. We would regulate the market so as to promote competitiveness and inform consumers of the potential risk associated with each
State involvement in pensions is deleterious to both pensioners and the state.

In liberal states the role of the government is to provide a framework where private individuals and corporations can use the market mechanism to allocate resources and jobs as and when needed. It is not the business of liberals government to provide employment for everyone. One's pension is essentially an extension of one's income into retirement. The government needs to provide a framework where private providers can provide pensions which individuals are free to choose from. Rather than "crowd-out" different options the government should help foster competition and the associated variety of retirement schemes to allow individuals to make choices about their own retirements. The present system imposes taxes in support of a system whose inefficiencies mean that pensioners get less for their money than they would under a developed private system. Indeed, the dominant blanket policy pushes many pensioners below the poverty line. [[http://www.financemarkets.co.uk/2008/04/16]] If everyone provided directly for his own pension, as under private pensions, without having to worry about the next generation not sufficing to pay for his pension as he did for the previous ones then he would have a greater incentive to work and save for his retirement, Governments are not the best judge of what is best for each member of society which is why individuals should be afforded their own choice in deciding what is best suited for them. Moving on from the last point one can also deduce that apart from harming individual pensioners this inflexible, inflation-prone system of state pensions results in a fiscal-burden that is detrimental to the legitimate role of government. The massive fiscal burden that governments take on prevents it from focusing its attention where it is really needed, providing benefits to those below the poverty line, reducing taxes to attract business and regulating the markets. This as a whole is not conducive to the government's role in society.
senior citizens should not and cannot be exposed to such naked risk on moral grounds

The protection of elderly citizens is highly valued by side opposition. However, genuine security for those at need is only achieved, sustainably, through our model. We respectfully disagree with the patronizing attitude of the opposition towards citizens; senior citizens are not necessarily senile and while were not all bankers we are able, We stand by the core principle of liberal democracies: we are capable of making the best possible decisions for ourselves. Unlike the opposition we welcome the fact that this motion promotes individual responsibility. There are limits to what governments can do. The crippling fiscal burden of supporting state pensions for everyone drastically reduces governments' ability to focus on and provide for those who fall below the poverty lines and are truly in need of help.[[http://247wallst.com/2010/05/20/state-pensions-face-1-trillion-shortfall/]] By encouraging individuals to pursue private pensions by more efficient private producers and actually take control of their pension,like they do with their income, the government can focus on the minority that falls through the system. Public pensions are not risk-free. As they are unsustainable we have explained governments resort to increases in the retirement age and extensive taxes, José Piñera "[However,] since the raising of both the retirement age and payroll taxes has an upper limit, sooner or later the system has to reduce the promised benefits, a telltale sign of a bankrupt system" the final result for the retired worker is the same: anguish in old age created, paradoxically, by the inherent insecurity of the "social security'' system. [[http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj15n2-3-1.html]]. While individuals can sue a private company for their withheld pensions or have the ombudsman intervene for them. Claiming your lost benefits from the government is a much trickier endeavor that makes it much riskier that a private but well regulated option.
Historical evidence has shown that privatisation has been unsuccessful

José Piñera After 15 years of operation, the results speak for themselves. Pensions in the new private system already are 50 to 100 percent higher--depending on whether they are old-age, disability, or survivor pensions--than they were in the pay-as-you-go system. Privatization works. The key caveat, however, is that it needs to be done under close government supervision and regulation to prevent anti-competitive practices. When the government devices a good framework for private firms to operate in, consumers will benefit. Privatization has proven successful in many cases such as British Gas and British Telecom[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatization#Supporting]]\ The core intention of a firm is to make maximize its profit. This can lead it to seek to attract consumers but also to cheat (eliminate opposition or collude to increase prices at the expense of the consumer), The crucial extra step need to ensure that the aim of the firm to make a profit is aligned with its incentive to give consumers the best possible deal is government supervision. While governments are bad at the supply of pension services they are much better suited to supervising markets., This comes down to facilitating information between consumers, CEO's and shareholders (to allow for proper appraisal of risk), to eliminating fraud and enforcing competition law. It was the failure to regulate properly that damaged privatization in Russia and was one of the main causes of the 2008 financial crisis.[[http://shareholdersunite.com/2009/03/07/imf-regulation/]] The lesson that has been learn is that while private trumps public in efficiency and willingness to carry out long-term planning, supervision is still necessary to ensure smooth running of the system.
Government is fundamentally unsuited to running pension schemes.

Private Corporations have their own personal objectives. Surely the financial crisis and the ensuing Government bailout is evidence that Private organisations/organizations(such as banks and other failing companies) are not very good at long term planning. The proposition seems to be suggesting that private companies/organizations bailed the government out; this in reality was not and can never be the case. Usually the reason people(however not the proposition) speak for privatisation is to favor the increase of market efficiency via self-regulation. It is understood that financial institutions will have to regulate themselves in the long run in the free market; when the government fall back option is not available. However, practically this has never been the case.This self-correcting mechanism that privatization supporters tout never occurs. Free banking(thus private pension schemes) causes counterfeiting, wildcat banking(Over-issuance of a currency so it cannot be converted) and fraudulence. In the U.S free banking period; bank failures in Indiana, Minnesota and Wisconsin are prime historical examples of where (privatization) free markets fail. The central bank was created out of necessity ; reverting to the mistakes made in the 1970s is not a step forward but two steps taken back. "Stock market failure" [[http://books.google.com/books?id=ZMSw0-jrHcEC&pg=PA581&lpg=PA581&dq=mishkin+eakins+pension+private+vs+public&source=bl&ots=hWsW6RT-1f&sig=3slA3_Bfdmvjjk9hjSifWKAy--8&hl=en&ei=KClrTLKAHIyHcZLXjJQB&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false]] The reason most people prefer public pensions over private even when the payout is significantly lower is because government sponsored contractual saving institutions(entities that collect installments over periods of time to return them with interest at a later date) offer risk free options whereas private companies do not and can not offer up that sort of fool-proof security.