catholic church's claims are weak n early history, regarding papacy

Rebuttals My opponent's comments will be in quotes. "con offers speculation on all the quotes he counter attacks. but not the best argument. for example, cyprian called that council and said "none of us sets hisself up as bishop of bishops, nor by tyrannical forces compels...". he is clealy speak in reaction to the bishop of rome's responses, and his words describe that bishop." Since Cyprian doesn't name the Pope, we can't be sure if he was referring to anyone specifically in his comments. He could have been simply saying that this council of bishops is not trying to be tyrannical. We need to be careful not to put words in his mouth. "con also ignores all the middle ages information posted in the link." I responded fully to everything in the article. Every single point. If something was in the comments section of the article, I can't be expected to respond to that. Ask yourself if you've ever considered the comments section of an article to be something that must be rebutted or responded to. Having said that, now that my opponent has made the claim, I will be happy to respond to it in the paragraph below. Before I do that, since we're on the subject of people not responding to claims I would like to point out that it was ACTUALLY MY OPPONENT who did not even attempt to rebut ANY of the 14 quotes I offered showing the Catholic Church's claims are STRONG concerning the papacy and the early Church. With this in mind, I extend all of those quotes and will await to see if my opponent will at some point respond to them. "it doesn't make sense that it'd take a thousand years to develop." I would like to ask my opponent what the statute of limitations is concerning doctrinal development? On what basis does she declare something to have taken too long? The Church.only sees the need to define something when there is controversy concerning a belief. The fact that it took some time before the Church had to step in officially actually supports MY claims concerning the early Church. "con also doesn't respond the fact that ecumenitcal councils to catholics and orthodox early in the church usually had zero to very little papal representation." This is irrelevant. Travel in early centuries of the Church was dangerous, difficult, and time consuming. Sometimes a Pope would simply sign off on a council after receiving the documents of the council, and finding that they were without doctrinal error. Then, and only then, would the council considered ecumenical and valid. "also the tacit admissiom by pope emeritus ratzinger pope benedict is ignored by con as well" What admission? My opponent has not offered any alleged "tacit admission" at this point of the debate. It not in any round of this debate, nor in the article she offered. "con also ignores tha tthe first vatican counil was pretty much a sham and the vote for infallibiity was 'bought' and 'shoved' in." The article makes no mention of any such thing. Before I respond, Pro is going to have to offer evidence for her claims. "con also ignores an entire history of disregard for the bishop of rome http://en.wikipedia.org...; This is the first time my opponent has referenced this issue, so I haven't ignored anything. Now that she has, I'd be happy to respond: The split between the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church concerning the Pope didn't occur until after the first 1,000 years of Christianity had passed. According to my opponent, a thousand years is too long of time to pass for something to be true. With that in mind, this fact actually supports MY claims concerning the early Church and the papacy because it took so long for there to be a controversy. New Arguments I will now offer further quotes from the early Church fathers showing the Catholic Church's claims are strong when it comes to the early Church and the Pope. [3] Tatian the Syrian "Simon Cephas answered and said, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God." Jesus answered and said unto him, "Blessed are you, Simon, son of Jonah: flesh and blood has not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say unto thee also, that you are Cephas, and on this rock will I build my Church; and the gates of hades shall not prevail against it" (The Diatesseron 23 [A.D. 170]). Tertullian "Was anything withheld from the knowledge of Peter, who is called "the rock on which the Church would be built" [Matt. 16:18] with the power of "loosing and binding in heaven and on earth" [Matt. 16:19]?" (Demurrer Against the Heretics 22 [A.D. 200]). "[T]he Lord said to Peter, "On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and] whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven" [Matt. 16:18"19]. . . . What kind of man are you, subverting and changing what was the manifest intent of the Lord when he conferred this personally upon Peter? Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys" (Modesty 21:9"10 [A.D. 220]). The Clementine Homilies "[Simon Peter said to Simon Magus in Rome:] "For you now stand in direct opposition to me, who am a firm rock, the foundation of the Church" [Matt. 16:18]" (Clementine Homilies 17:19 [A.D. 221]). Origen "Look at [Peter], the great foundation of the Church, that most solid of rocks, upon whom Christ built the Church [Matt. 16:18]. And what does our Lord say to him? "Oh you of little faith," he says, "why do you doubt?" [Matt. 14:31]" (Homilies on Exodus 5:4 [A.D. 248]). Cyprian of Carthage "There is one God and one Christ, and one Church, and one chair founded on Peter by the word of the Lord. It is not possible to set up another altar or for there to be another priesthood besides that one altar and that one priesthood. Whoever has gathered elsewhere is scattering" (Letters 43[40]:5 [A.D. 253]). "There [John 6:68"69] speaks Peter, upon whom the Church would be built, teaching in the name of the Church and showing that even if a stubborn and proud multitude withdraws because it does not wish to obey, yet the Church does not withdraw from Christ. The people joined to the priest and the flock clinging to their shepherd are the Church. You ought to know, then, that the bishop is in the Church and the Church in the bishop, and if someone is not with the bishop, he is not in the Church. They vainly flatter themselves who creep up, not having peace with the priests of God, believing that they are secretly [i.e., invisibly] in communion with certain individuals. For the Church, which is one and Catholic, is not split nor divided, but it is indeed united and joined by the cement of priests who adhere one to another" (ibid., 66[69]:8). Firmilian "But what is his error . . . who does not remain on the foundation of the one Church which was founded upon the rock by Christ [Matt. 16:18], can be learned from this, which Christ said to Peter alone: "Whatever things you shall bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth, they shall be loosed in heaven" [Matt. 16:19]" (collected in Cyprian"s Letters74[75]:16 [A.D. 253]). "[Pope] Stephen [I] . . . boasts of the place of his episcopate, and contends that he holds the succession from Peter, on whom the foundations of the Church were laid [Matt. 16:18]. . . . [Pope] Stephen . . . announces that he holds by succession the throne of Peter" (ibid., 74[75]:17). Optatus "You cannot deny that you are aware that in the city of Rome the episcopal chair was given first to Peter; the chair in which Peter sat, the same who was head"that is why he is also called Cephas ["Rock"]"of all the apostles; the one chair in which unity is maintained by all" (The Schism of the Donatists 2:2 [A.D. 367]). Ambrose of Milan "It is to Peter that he says: "You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church" [Matt. 16:18]. Where Peter is, there is the Church. And where the Church is, no death is there, but life eternal" (Commentary on Twelve Psalms of David 40:30 [A.D. 389]). Jerome "I follow no leader but Christ and join in communion with none but your blessedness [Pope Damasus I], that is, with the chair of Peter. I know that this is the rock on which the Church has been built. Whoever eats the Lamb outside this house is profane. Anyone who is not in the ark of Noah will perish when the flood prevails" (Letters 15:2 [A.D. 396]). Augustine "If the very order of episcopal succession is to be considered, how much more surely, truly, and safely do we number them [the bishops of Rome] from Peter himself, to whom, as to one representing the whole Church, the Lord said, "Upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not conquer it." Peter was succeeded by Linus, Linus by Clement. ... In this order of succession a Donatist bishop is not to be found" (Letters 53:1:2 [A.D. 412]). Sechnall of Ireland "Steadfast in the fear of God, and in faith immovable, upon [Patrick] as upon Peter the [Irish] church is built; and he has been allotted his apostleship by God; against him the gates of hell prevail not" (Hymn in Praise of St. Patrick 3 [A.D. 444]). Council of Chalcedon "Wherefore the most holy and blessed Leo, archbishop of the great and elder Rome, through us, and through this present most holy synod, together with the thrice blessed and all-glorious Peter the apostle, who is the rock and foundation of the Catholic Church, and the foundation of the orthodox faith, has stripped him [Dioscorus] of the episcopate" (Acts of the Council, session 3 [A.D. 451]). Sources 3. http://www.catholic.com...