Circumsicion is necessary and ethical.

However, same such studies have also shown that with proper hygiene - that is pulling back foreskin and washing the penis - can be just as preventative. This means that circumcision is not necessary for physical health reasons. For mental health reasons, it is only "necessary" because of our norms that our society has put in place. If in 3000 bce (before current era) we decided to remove every woman's clitoris at birth, would it not be the social norm? Of course, this is hypothetical - so no one can truly know - but I believe my point is that social norms are created by habit and lack of knowledge. The lack of knowledge in this case is that hygiene can be just as effective. So as you numbered your points, I will number my responses to such said points, even though some of it will be repetition. 1. Social norms, addressed above: if a woman thinks it's a no-no, then I feel sorry for her because from some research suggests an uncircumcised penis enhances physical pleasure by both parties. Do social norms mandate necessity? This is a question that I must ask as well, then, and we must consider. 2. Yes, if you decide to be neglectful of hygiene, then circumcision may be beneficial in reducing disease - but it does not mandate a necessity. 3. When one urinates with an uncircumcised penis, one pulls the foreskin back to urinate - so point is null and void. (obviously, this can vary on individual basis, but the idea is that urination does not have an absolute effect whether one is circumcised or not). 4. You state that I have "said that hot women" - I never said anything about "hot women" - I did say "Sexually Active Women" - did you read that as "Sexually Attractive Women," perhaps? And in fact, I did say they did say it was "gross" - proving the point that it is a social norm. But again, the point of the debate was not whether it is a social norm, but rather if there is a necessity, and because I have yet to see a necessary point, if it remains ethical to continue such genital mutilation. 5. Progressive is subjective, and is always changing. When the moors were in place in Spain before the first inquisition, there were many scientifically progressive institutions in place that were eradicated by the inquisition. It is point of view in progression. And I'm sorry sir, but I do not want to interject religion into this argument, because whether or not god exists can not truly play a role as to whether or not circumcision is necessary. But since I must, I will quote the new testament: St. Paul's letter to the Galatians states, "In Christ, circumcision availeth nothing. " Not only this- but why would god "Create" us with foreskin and then ask us to take it off? That doesn't seem like good "planning" or "intelligent design" . .. seems like a hiccup in the design if you choose to believe this higher power really designates us to have to pray on sundays and go to communion, etc. etc. (For further insight on my beliefs: I am a god fearing man - but there is no point in a religion where there are doctrines set for ritual - there is but one golden rule: treat others how you would want to be treated. No other ritual is mandated to live - as we see many non-worshipers who still lead full lives) 6. A general MYTH about circumcision is that babies feel no pain. We now know that babies do feel pain, very acutely. Babies scream, choke, hold their breath, and vomit during the circumcision process. Another myth is that it's more painful if done later. Even with anesthesia, at any age it is a painful procedure with the potential for serious complications. 7. Higher self-esteem because the norms of society produce differences among man. Differences among man has always caused there to be outcasts. If you are stating a necessity for everyone to be the same, then you are on the same level as Hitler who deemed a race of perfection - all the same. I do not understand what you mean by parameters, but yes, in order for this discussion to be "necessary," circumcision should be happening for us to discuss whether or not itself is necessary or ethical. Thank you for taking the time to respond. Chad