feminism is marxism

"Your previous point as I understand it, is that Feminism is socialist but not Marxist." I never said that feminism was socialism, I just said whether it has those ideals or not, it is not Marxism. Feminism, even this Pro-woman type isn't even Socialism, that what equal outcomes for women, all women, rich, poor, middle-class, everyone. They want gender equality, socialists want class equality, it is different, Feminism may be based in a similar model, but that does not mean it is one and the same. "All socialism is Marxism. Socialism as a economic model is conditional on two primary pillars of Marxism; specifically the identification of unequal classes and the use of force to redistribute economic output." Uhh... false... Marx created a type of Socialism, so did 20 other major political philosophers, Socialism is a broad category, which contains Marxism, but is not limited to Marxism. In fact, Marx didn't even invent Socialism, Plato, in "Laws" talks of a socialist society being the most practical and just society, (Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy). Plato was not a Marxist, I don't think any sane human being would say that. Anyways, your point is moot, as feminism is not the same as socialism much less Marxism. "Whether that socialism is only 10% of the economy or 100%, it is still the forced redistribution of economic output. Whether you want to define the class as the proletariate [sic], economical disadvantaged, oppressed masses etc. it all boils down to the same thing: specifically that the state forces a transfer of economic output from one class to another. Note that whether or not the firm is worker owned or privately owned is irrelevant as the end result is the same." Again, false. Socialism and Capitalism are often mixed, as logically neither a truly pure free market or a truly pure socialist economy could exist. The fact that welfare exists does not give us a socialist economy, absolutely not. "While there are many theoretical and practical differences among the various forms of Marxism, most forms of Marxism share: * a belief that capitalism is based on the exploitation[5] of workers by the owners of capital * a belief that people's consciousness of the conditions of their lives reflects the dominant ideology which is in turn shaped by material conditions and relations of production * an understanding of class in terms of differing relations of production, and as a particular position within such relations * an understanding of material conditions and social relations as historically malleable * a view of history according to which class struggle, the evolving conflict between classes with opposing interests, structures each historical period and drives historical change * a belief that this dialectical historical process will ultimately result in a replacement of the current class structure of society with a system that manages society for the good of all, resulting in the dissolution of the class structure and its support (more often than not including the nation state)" That does not mean that socialism is Marxism, socialism came first, therefore we can say Marxism is a form of Socialism, but not that Socialism is Marxism. "In every point, feminism is fits the Marxist model. Point one: exploitation of women by men point two: feminist assault on family (read economic specialization necessitated when people have children) Point three: same as point two Point four: Mentioned in my previous post regarding the view of all things being caused by the environment (ie. patriarchy) Point five: Which wave of feminism are we in now? Point Six: Men and women are equal. The 'liberalism' that you mention." Even if it fits the Marxist model (a stretch) that does not mean it is Marxism. But, to disprove you even more: Point One: This is saying that capitalism causes men to exploit women, which is not true, capitalism is not usually blamed. Point Two: A feminist "assault" on the family has little to do with Point Two Point Three: A feminist "assault" on the family has little to do with Point Three Point Four: Patriarchy does not equal capitalism Point Five: Multiple waves are not exclusive to Marxism Point Six: Men and women being equal has nothing to do with Point Six "The current left are socialist and Marxists. They desire the redistribution of wealth and economic output and are willing to use the power of the state to enforce it. To argue that liberals and feminist in particular want equal opportunity is not correct. What they desire is equality of outcomes. This is not the same thing. Implicit in socialist policies is the definition of classes. Redistribution is designed to take from the 'haves' to the 'have nots' to the degree that the current powers are able to maintain political power." Some, but not all, in fact most are pretty solid capitalists. "In each of the socialist areas I mentioned in my previos post, a 'class' is identified and force is being placed to bear on other classes to provide the resources claimed by the 'disadvantaged class'." It doesn't make it socialism. "Whether a coup is successful without a shot does not mean it is not a coup. You argue there are meaningful differences between Marxism and Marxism light. At the end of the day, I see no differences." Feminism is Marxism light, where did that come from?