RE: God's Existance

Pro, it was your original debate that I wanted you to start- and that a debate that you challenged a respondent to provide the first argument for, which was in my opinion poor form then and not helped by your obvious awareness of that now. You still have not meet your burden of proof even with your first argument. Allow me to say that I am so NOT stunned (disappointed, I will grant you). Part 1. The very first sentence is a typo- " no alternative to our beginning without... God" taken literally is a stronger version of my argument. Or an admission, whichever. The next sentences are much worse. I would suggest that you do some research into the sciences that you are parodying here. In brief, evolutionary theory is not an alternative to Yahweh. There are billions of followers of the abrahamic faiths, and most of them have no difficulty accepting that their God and evolutionary processes are compatible. Catholic doctrine in particular, states that evolution is "more than a hypothesis", and compatible with the faith. Evolution also does not state that the first cell was made out of hydrogen and helium. Really, helium, Pro? The first noble gas, which famously does not build or even combine with anything is a building block of all life? Absurd! Then you follow with the same misunderstanding of big bang theory. No, it wasn't all light beams at the start. No, the photons didn't develop into atomic elements- photons have no mass and therefore can't form atoms. In fact helium doesn't go on to make stars, it is made from stars, when hydrogen fusion occurs. So are the rest of the elements, from which we came to be. This explanation does exist, but as my space is limited I cant give you proper justice. Then you say that life existed 'in a simple state' for 3billion years until developing into humans. That is another ridiculous smear on evolution - followed by the 'evolution can't explain the eye' trope. Last time I checked there were 34 separate lineages of eyes in biology, every one explained to the the hilt. Google 'evolution of the eye' sometime. Google 'big bang origin' sometime. But first, you should really google 'relevant argument'and 'alternative argument' some time, because these are not! Stellar fusion, the Big Bang and evolution are all well verified theories, by which I mean they are robust, tested, directly observed in the real world. They are not alternatives to the existence of any god, particularly YHWH/ Jehovah/ Allah. As I said, there are many people who believe in whatever god and in these theories as well. There are also some people who disbelieve them both. Your entire incoherent paragraph does not address the existence of a god, except as a fallback from a false either or argument. I note again the delicious irony of the official arguments for god- 'apologetic'. Since you were so interested in Also, I do not have room to discuss the origins of life in this forum. Fortunately I in fact don't have too, as that is not the topic of this debate- we are on God Existence, right now. Part 2. As you noted, I haven't given any arguments for the nonexistence of the Christian God, so for grins I will do so now. Premise 1-1: God is all powerful. Premise 1-2: God is all knowing. Ergo: God can accomplish what He desires. Counter 1: God is not incompetent. Premise 2-1: God is Good Premise 2: God desires (from #1) that mortals understand Him by a written work. Ergo2: Any written work that is of God is consistent. Counter2: A written work that is inconsistent is not of God. The Torah, or God should get the facts straight. First Account (Genesis 1:1-2:3) Second Account (Genesis 2:4-25) Genesis 1:25-27 (Humans were created after the other animals.) And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image.... So God created man in his own image. Genesis 2:18-19 (Humans were created before the other animals.) And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. Genesis 1:27 (The first man and woman were created simultaneously.) So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Genesis 2:18-22 (The man was created first, then the animals, then the woman from the man's rib.) And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them.... And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. The Testament, or God should be able to keep a schedule. From Matthew: 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. The Koran, or God should've gotten it right the first time. None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?" (2:106). When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not," (16:101). Pro, I hope you have as much fun with that as I have. A god may exist, but the books of monotheism cannot describe he/she/it accurately. Therefore any god that does exist is not *your* god. Some final links for your research: http://www.pandasthumb.org... http://www.talkorigins.org... http://www.evilbible.com... http://skepticsannotatedbible.com... http://www.answering-islam.org...