The system of "Sin" is not fair.

I feel that any addition to the original post I made might push the debate farther than it should in terms of simplicity and a "simple read", although it is already very long. My response in accordance to the points brought up: 1. I'm not exactly sure how to go about saying this so I will try to make it as clear as possible. If you are making the point that God is seperate from humanity and that god is holy, seperated, and a different entity: I accept that as per the bible stating it.(I thought this was by default accepted once you accept the bible as tru per the opening). However, your math was off. The punishment of sinning is not only that you are sent to hell, but that God may take your life before that(and then consequently you would go to hell). I want o make this clear because to say that the only punishment God has given for sin in the bible is to to got to hell, is not true. 2. "Sins of our fathers". I'd like to address the acts that we are all born sinful and that is becaue of the original "fall" of Adam and Eve. Romans 5:18-19: 18 Therefore, as one trespass[b] led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness[c] leads to justification and life for all men. 19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. -Let us ignore the Jesus stuff for the sake of the debate. This verse states that all were condemned for the sin of Adam and Eve. The "father" of all mankind, made many sinners. Note: You did not respond or explain to people why God killed the several groups of people in the stories of Noah, Moses, Sodom and Gomorrah and the Amalekites, where in each the entire group of people were wiped out because they were deemed "sinful" or "corrupt" in the eyes of God. -You assume that the verses stating that the child will not pay for the sins of the father prove that no child was punished in these genocides unfairly, but that assumption is false. Not only in the sense that all mankind has paid for the sins of Adam, but that these groups of people(children included) were punished for the sins of the mature members. Innocent children were punished (killed) in these acts. Note: I am not proposing that the bible is false, but that the verse was meant for a different interpretation. That being The son shall not bear the responsibility of the father according to the law.(i.e. the 613 commandments in the Old Testament). So that if a father broke the law, the son could not be punished for this. I believe this verse was intended in such a way. -God did kill children. In accordance with the story of Noah, Moses, Sodom and Gomorrah and the Amalekites, all died for their sin(from birth) and the sins of their father. To think that not one child existed in these examples is rather naive, but for an example we can look towards the story of Moses: Exodus 11: 4-7: "4. So Moses said, "This is what the Lord says: "About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. 5 Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the female slave, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well. 6 There will be loud wailing throughout Egypt"worse than there has ever been or ever will be again. 7 But among the Israelites not a dog will bark at any person or animal." Then you will know that the Lord makes a distinction between Egypt and Israel." -I'd like to note that there are examples of where God himself killed the innocent and where he ordered the Israelites to do such. There is a difference, but I find that the overall effect the same. [On the topic of Born-Sinners] The Bible repeatedly tells us that we are born sinners thanks to adam and eve. In the first part I opened with the assumption that both parties would accept children as being "innocent". I make this assumption based upon the notion that children do not fully understand or comprehend the acts that they do and their consequences. I realize that this can also apply to more mature humans, but for children I think we can agree that "innocence" is among them to a certain age. This presents a conflicting view. We percieve children as innocent though the bible does not and from birth gives them the effective sentence of Hell, though they could not have possibly disobeyed god. This is effectively "the sins of the father", that father being Adam. 3. Deserving of Hell. I'd like to make the point that the verse you listed(1corinthians 10:4) is talking aobut the Jewish religion. I.e. the same "spiritual drink" and "unto Moses" relate to the Old Testament. Of course within the belief that Jesus was God(the trinity), those who already believed in the Jewish God(i.e. the jews), would have technically been believing in Jesus before he came to Earth. However that leaves us with John 14:6 "6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." So the original meaning of the Corinthians verse is that the Jews would continue their religion by believing in Jesus. This does not apply to the non-jewish people before Jesus, but ot assure the Jews that Christianity is a continuation of their religion. ============================================= The whole point of 3 was that those who could not know of the Law, Jesus, or of the bible were sent to hell, regardless if they are "Good" by moral or even biblical standards. It is in accordance with 2, where they are punished not by something they did, but by the sin of Adam. Meaning: People go to Hell for circumstances that are outside of their control. ========================================= In response to your edits on P1-3(I'd rather you not since this makes it harder to read through later.) P1-3 1.Noah can be called a preacher and Abraham can plead for Sodom, but that has no effect whatsoever on the decision made by God and what it stands for. In response to your assumption that God "morally" executed a killer, I deny that. God committed genocide. (Genocide definition: the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.) This is entirely different from the moral justification of killing a specific person or group. The justification for genocide is non-existent. 2. The good people? The people who are for the most part good. Humanitarian, peaceful, non-violent. I'd presume there is a general definition of a "good" person we can agree on. 3. It is founded on all the scripture, in fact the entire story of the Old Testament is of the Jewish people. To clarify, I was talking of the time before Jesus. Genesis 17:7 "7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee." ==================== Note: You did not edit the closing correctly. You left the phrase "and punishes those undeserving of punishment" ========= To summarize: 2."Sins of Our Father" - Adam and Eve: mankind pays the price for generations because of their Sin. The are (according to the bible) the parents of all. -God also murdered select groups of people for the sins of the whole. -God did kill children(listed examples). [Children are innocent] -Yet the God has killed them in the act of Genocide. -Yet God condemns them to hell from their birth. 3. People go to Hell for circumstances that are outside of their control. P1: God does not give a "second chance" in the old testament to many groups of people. He simply writes them off as "too far gone" and murders them. P2: See 3. P3: God's chosen people(the jews) were the only ones God continually spoke to before Jesus. Leaving primarily them alone to know of God and how to avoid the fate of Hell. C: The system of sin is one that punishes those undeserving of punishment and for circumstances that are beyond a person's control.