Passing a kidney stone is more painful than giving birth.

I need to preface this by stating that I am under the influence at the time of this writing and will most likely not be available for a rebuttal tomorrow. I apologize if this results in any confusion and I hope that my context and syntax remains coherent, rather than the narcotics speaking. I thank FREEDO "Con" for taking the other side of this debate. I will no doubt use words or terms, that one could begin a broadside of semantic and definitional usage arguments, but I hope that we can use these words within the core framework of the argument, as the meaning should be implied with-in the context and an elaborate barrage should not be necessary. Lastly, I hope it is all in good fun as this is being used as an exercised to keep me focused while the narcotics keep the pain at bay. ================================== Point 1: Common referral. Why would anyone make a common referral between two different medical problems? It would stand to reason that if frequent comments are made (not only by layman, but doctors and nurses alike) in reference to the pain of passing a kidney stone would be as bad worst than labor –there would be some merit to the comment. For we know there are X number of those that have passed kidney stones, we know there are Y number of who have given birth, and there is Z number of those that have passed kidney stones and given birth. One would think that with the frequency of the comment, that if it was not true there would be a rather large contingent that would be the "nay sayers". Personal Experience as to the frequency from professionals (while not verified – I would hope my opponent will consider these as true – for the sake of the debate. Granted that in none of the statements indicate that one is more or less painful, it does demonstrate that it is comparable.) a.In San Francisco, when I had my first stone – the urologist said – prior to passing the stone "Now you'll know how painful it is for women to give birth!" That would imply the pain is equivalent. b.When I went in to have the stone "broken up" the nurse said – "I would rather give birth again, than passing another kidney stone!" The nurse has experienced both; however her comment did not indicate which was more painful and could additionally imply that the corresponding results of having a child was worth the pain. Never-the-less the comparison was made and both implied similar levels of pain. c.Emergency Room (last Friday) for recent stone. I had three separate references from three separate individuals (attending doctor, resident, and admitting nurse). All of them making the comparison between passing a stone and labor. Granted none of them said which was more painful, but they did make comparable references. Internet After reviewing several search engines it quickly becomes apparent that I am not the only person that has had the experience in the referencing of pain between passing a kidney stone and labor (Google results 401,000 for "kidney stone vs. labor"). Additionally, there are hundreds of comments, topics, questions, and form responses about the comparison of pain between the two. Conclusion to Point one: Many have heard the painful comparison. While a common comparison does not constitute verification as to which has higher pain level, the mere fact that it has not been a refuted comparison, would indicated that there is a reasonable high level of probability that the pain is similar. The common reference (and frequency in which I have experienced) would reasonably conclude that they are of similar pain. For it would not be logical for the comparison to be made in the first place, if it were not. ======================================= Point 2: The Comparison. When you suffer from a kidney stone they don't say, "It's as painful as a gunshot wound!" Instead it is most commonly referenced to a labor pain. Why would they make that reference? I was at my urologist this morning and asked him that very question. He said the pain is located in the same general area in which women fell birthing pains. Kidney stones will however only give pain to the left or right side, but it is one of the few pains that will also be felt in the lower back, side and front – similar to birthing pain. Additionally, kidney stone pain and birthing pain comes and goes (for the most part) – via contractions in the case of birth, via stone movement in the case of kidney stones – however stones can be continuous pain. They also share in some of the same pain receptor nerves (not all). He concluded that women have cited that kidney pain was similar to giving birth. Yet when I asked about which he thought was worse, he said he didn't know because he was a man – and wouldn't wager to guess. Conclusion to Point 2: It seems that doctors and women have both verified the comparison, the urologist took a medical approach as to why, while the nurse (in Point 1) made the comparable statement after experiencing both – which would lead me to conclude the pain was of similar nature. For why else would she make the comparison? So it would stand to reason that the type of pain and the location has something to do with the comparison. ============================================== Point 3: Statistical While point one and point two don't conclusively indicate which is MORE painful, they do show that it is common and similarities between the two pains. The only way to conclude this debate is to look at statistical polling results. The following poll resulted in: 57.8% thought Kidney Pain was worse and only 18.4% said Labor was worse. http://community.babycenter.com... Conclusion to Point 3: The only people to qualify whether one is more painful than the other are for those that experienced both. The poll not only indicates that passing kidney stones are as painful (to met my burden as Pro), rather they are even MORE painful - by a rather wide margin. =============================== Conclusion: Points 1 & 2 would indicated it is commonly referred to as a similar pain, both from simple medical level (being of the same location, same type of pain, and some similar pain receptors). The comparison is not just made by laypeople, but frequently used by doctors, nurses, and others in the medical field. While it may be commonly referred to, I would agree it doesn't mean that one is of more pain – however – it would stand to reason that those in the medical field have experienced enough patients who have had both problems that from their observable experience they are comparable and similar in pain levels. So which is worse, that leads to Point 3. The only true way to measure which is worse is to gather statistical information from those that have experienced both. The poll indicates that these women believed that Kidney Stones were more painful than labor by a rather large margin. I believe that I have demonstrated through the common use of the comparison, the actual comparison, and through the polling data that Kidney Stones are as or more painful than labor. Vote Pro - As the polling results (of women who have experienced both) should be more than enough to meet the burden of "I contend that the pain is as great if not more severe for passing a kidney stone vs. giving birth." Note: I would happily lose this debate if it proved the "Con" was right and I could be rid of this pain right now.