Reformed Theology (Calvinism)

But there is no indication that he is limiting the "all. "9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, Not willing that any should perish, But that all should come to repentance. There is no indication here that the all means every single person who is on the earth without exception. If it meant every single person without exception, He would then be read as going back and forth between universal and some. It seems kind of eisegetical to read in any as every single person without exception, Randomly in the text. Notice Peter says he is long-suffering to US-ward, Not willing that any. . . Limiting any is obvious by the context, And henceforth all. But all of what? Cats? Dogs? Random people debating online? No. All of the us Peter was referring to. It is obvious the us limits the any and all, And refers to believers. It's not my job to explain every verse, All I need to do is rebut your points and back up my own. If you can't explain this verse in another way than I am, I don't see a need to accept your rebuttal, Especially when it doesn't actually deal with the verse itself. So that means that God creates people so that they CANNOT go to God naturally. That's my point. ALL they know is sin. No offense, But this is a seriously ignorant response. He doesn't create them for that, He creates them knowing they will do that. There's a difference. You didn't even acknowledge the Bible verses I provided. I'd rather believe what the Bible says. What does dead in trespasses mean? That they want to come to God? ! I mean, Come on! I was not straw manning. YOU literally just said that THEY CANNOT GO TO GOD NATURALLY. Since God created them and WILL NOT ALLOW THEM TO CHOOSE HIM, ALL they can do is SIN. They HAVE NO CHOICE. - Again, This doesn't mean He created them for that, He created them knowing they would do that. They cannot come to God naturally. If you think they can, That's dangerously close to Pelagianism. For, "No man can come to me, Except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. " The Bible's word against yours. Your originally conclusion was a straw man, That was what I was meaning. Its this "choice" versus the Bible. If you reference the passage from Joshua, That is referring to serving the Lord, Not salvation. Yes. No offense, But this is very unbiblical (maybe even heretical). Paul says, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. " There is NO POINT to saying this if there is another way to salvation. Jesus is the gospel, The good news! He Himself calls people to repent and BELIEVE! The Bible's word against yours. For, "I am the way, The truth, And the life; NO ONE comes to the Father EXCEPT through me. " I was not, I was pointing out that a respected figure of YOUR faith disagrees with what YOU saidI can go along with that. YOU IS A PRONOUN. WHAT PRONOUNS REFER TO ARE ANTECEDENTS. And you say I don't understand simple grammar? Did you forget that antecedents can refer to pronouns? Again, I was talking about SECOND Peter, Not FIRST Peter. Minute detail, Arbitrary. In that scripture, There is NO indication that they are limiting the "you" to any specific group of people. You did not show where you got this supposed antecedent from, But "you" is a pronoun. There is, And I did. Read the verse, And above. This is a straw man. None of those things have to do with a choice. Second of all, If you don't have a choice like YOU just said, The ONLY thing you can do is SIN. But then God is punishing us for the ONLY thing that we can do? A straw man is a false representation of someone's belief. What I wrote is an argument, Not what you believe. (? ) Sin is not the only thing they can do. It's what their nature is inclined to unless God changes it. Again, What does dead in trespasses mean? EXACTLY, THIS PROVES MY POINT. NONE of them can come to him, So he lets SOME. But then he throws the others in hell, Even though they COULDN'T choose him in the first place becaue he NEVER LET THEM. They LITERALLY COULD NOT BUT IN YOUR VIEW HE STILL PUNISHES THEM FOR ITYou realize I was representing what you believe here, In a semi-satirical way. (? ) He punishes them for sin. God is the creator, I'm not going to tell Him what to do with His creation, And I'm certainly not warp scripture to make him what i want him to be. Because they refuse to acknowledge him or to accept his gift. Does it say He offers propitiation to the world, Or does it say that He is the propitiation? Blatant eisegesis. You are reading offer into that verse! - Don't worry about the "elect" in Peter, Not sure where I was going with that. This was referring to the nations of Israel and Edom, Both of those men's descendants. Nations are made up of people. The words love and hate are still there! This has been an interesting debate. Blessings, -Juke