The Velvet Underground Are Simultaneously The Most Underrated and Overrated Band of All Time.

:: POINT ONE :: I argue that there is no way for Pro to prove that TVU is simultaneously the most underrated and overrated band of all time. His entire argument supporting the resolution has so far been based on his opinion and hearsay. This contention alone is enough to win me the entire debate. :: POINT TWO :: I'll be honest - I don't think a lot of people have ever even heard of TVU, especially not a lot of young people. Thus they cannot possibly (logically) be considered one of the most OVER-rated bands. :: POINT THREE :: The only kind of 'factual evidence' we can go by here are actual studies or polls that have been published. So here are 2 random lists (the first ones I found using Google) regarding the most over-rated of all time. The Beatles make The Top 10 both time, landing at both number one and number four [1]! Likewise, when Googling the BEST bands of all time, The Beatles actually came in at number two [3] and number one [4]. So, according to these polls (and many others), The Beatles top the list as both the best AND most-overrated. Now if you're thinking is that The Beatles have never been considered UNDER-RATED, think again. If The Beatles are so great... and they are... then given their accomplishments and stature, they should always be considered the GREATEST band of all time. However since they're not... since Led Zeppelin often takes the gold... then they, The Beatles, are also under-rated as well. Anyway my point here is that Pro has not shown enough 'evidence' that TVU is considered by others, at least, to be simultaneously both the most over and under-rated band. :: POINT FOUR :: How often do we hear the phrase: You either love it or you hate it? It's pretty common, and with reason. Logic tells us that if something is unique, some people are going to embrace its differences and claim it brilliance. Others will be turned off by the unfamiliarity and brand it rubbish. This applies to many aspects of life - not just music or TVU in particular. Therefore it can be said that this is an entire speculatory argument that could be made about anyone and any thing. :: POINT FIVE :: The 5th way I can win this debate is to offer at least ONE band that I can argue is both the most underrated and overrated band of all time. So in this round, I will list a number of bands along with a detailed description of why I feel they are both simultaneously underrated and overrated. If you agree with my analysis, or at least find it more thorough and thought provoking than Pro's, then you must vote Con. Some bands for consideration are: [The Ramones] Who doesn't find themselves singing along to the Hey! Ho! Let's Go! commercial, or get pumped whenever "I Wanna Be Sedated" comes on? Let's face it - The Ramones are often credited as being the best punk band of all time, and from a number of sources [5]. The Ramones were also largely responsible for an entire movement of youth and sub-culture across the globe (punk). Yet they are almost never considered on The Top 100 Bands of all time... 100! They also have not sold a lot of records in comparison with other bands, meaning they weren't mainstream popular and therefore under-rated by a lot of the public. [The Beatles] Ah, The Beatles. A plethora of major accomplishments include producing the first concept or rock opera album; creating one of the most popular (sold) records of all time; introducing a lot of unfamiliar instruments into the maintstream, including the studio itself ; suggested a future of sonic and lyrical experimentation [6]; etc. HOWEVER, musically the Beatles' songs are not very challenging. Most of them are based on just a few chords that are easy to learn and play. The theory behind this is, if The Beatles were better musicians, their songs would be more complex. One also has to wonder if they really LIKE The Beatles of if they are just brainwashed to think they're supposed to, because of all The Beatles have done for the industry. Hmm. On the other hand, The Beatles are often considered the hands-down greatest band of all time. [Nirvana] Sure they pioneered grunge, but let's face it - grunge kinda SUCKS! Would this band have really been as big had not Kurt Cobain killed himself? Huh? Huh? [Coldplay] Suppose Chris Martin was ugly. Or that he wasn't married to Gwynth Paltrow with a kid named Apple. Or that other tres chic celebs didn't love him. Would you? Most fans (and there are a lot of them) love Coldplay for that they are: a poppy British sensation. However, many people would even go so far as to consider them genius! I kid you not. [Billy Joel] This guy sells out concert after concert after concert after concert. His ticket prices are enormous and he even gets to play at cool gigs such as being the final performance played at Mets Stadium! But when was piano rock ever cool anyway? Elton John was really the only other big name, and he was really only popular because of who he was sleeping with. ['N Sync] I thought this would be an interesting turn: introducing a boy band into the mix. Well, technically they're a band, and in my opinion, extremely over-rated. It doesn't matter who's doing the rating here - the fact of the matter is that 'N Sync has been the most popular musical group at some point, topping youngters list as THE BEST OF ALL TIME, even. So... do you think they deserve this? Probably not!!! They're not that good, even at singing (assuming their songs were better...)!!! Yet just because you and I might think so, does not negate the fact that SO many people have worshipped them - even if they were young girls. Thus they have also been significantly under-rated in terms of their music and efforts just because of their fan base. Hence, them being simultaneously the most under and over-rated band. [Michael Jackson/Jackson 5] Okay, Michael is the King of Pop. But that's only because he was lucky enough to be the first. Sort of. I mean, he kind of sounds like a little girl and always has. His songs rocked, but he didn't write them. When he was little, he was singing about love before his balls even dropped. And when they did drop, you couldn't tell - at least not from his music. The truth is that he has no strength; I mean, he's no Andrea Bocelli! His pipes are seriously lacking. Yet he is so glamorized outside of his weird and creepy ways. Like I said, he's been dubbed the KING of Pop, and he's responsible for the best selling album of all time! He tops everyone's list as a fave. So what's the deal? [Elvis] He was famous for being gorgeous and for shaking his hips. His music was stolen from black soul artists! Then again, F that! He's the KING! See what I mean? :: CONCLUSION :: Even if you do not agree with my choice of bands, you must consider my points vs. Pro's. Thus, with all things considered, I have by far provided the better argument in NEGATION of the resolution. To win this debate, Pro must first prove that others (the general public - or at least other website admins) feel that TVU is both the most over-rated and under-rated band via some credible sources. Next, Pro must combat the ideology that it is not uncommon for something or someone to be either loved or hated with little room for grey. Finally, Pro must prove that TVU is both under and over-rated more than any band or artist I have mentioned thus far. Most importantly, he must convince you, the reader, that he is right. :: SOURCES :: [1] http://www.thesegotoeleven.com... [2] http://www.listology.com... [3] http://www.avrev.com... [4] http://www.msnbc.msn.com... [5] http://www.listology.com... [6] http://popwatch.ew.com...