Social Welfare Programs do not work

"this system that i propose i believe is the best." You have never proposed a system. Your idea to lower taxes on the poor was refuted 100% by me, because the poor already pay no taxes. "the trickle down system may of failed at keeping people out of poverty but it did succeed in removing the incentive to not move up the ladder." Do you have any proof of this? No. I have proof that it was disastrous to the economy: every time it has been tried (Hoover, Reagan/Bush I, Bush II) it has sent the economy into a recession. "the birth rates are so low that the next generation will be tiny and unable to sustain the economic pace. russia had a holiday for national have sex day, offering prises to those who give birth exactly 9 months from the date. in spain the ratio of children to women is almost 1;2 meaning the nest generation in spain will be half as large. this may or may not be a result of the social programs but the economy is a boom-bust." First of all, the global population is growing so fast, and the immigration rates into Europe are so high, that this is almost a nonissue. I refute that it will negatively affect these countries' economies. It isn't like many things (other than cars) are manufactured in Europe anyway - they do not need a large population to sustain their booms, which are based on high-tech products. In fact, there is the beginning of a massive brain-drain out of the USA into Europe, because they are investing their businesses in high-tech and we are not. Therefore, Europe's population decline (which is not nearly as dramatic as you make it sound, because you leave out immigration numbers) will not affect their current economic booms. As to your point that their economies are boom-bust, the last time I checked, so was ours. In fact, their economies are much more stable. "unless we want another generation of the poor who are unable to live on their own the government needs to remove the incentives of not making a decent living" You have never addressed my point that no government handouts that are now in place or that are likely to be in place allow anybody to live off of them comfortably. Most of the poor, contrary to your statements, are hardworking Americans struggling to get by. Programs like welfare and unemployment insurance and food stamps act as a safety net in the middle of your metaphorical well. Disabling them and replacing them with a trickle-down system has been tried, and it has failed. The people just fall down the well, and they drag the rest of the nation with them. "If someone falls into deep pit is the best solution to keep throwing water and food down there until the person dies of old age? or is the most efficient solution to throw down a rope and let 'em get out. the obvious answer is to throw down a rope. today's present day social programs help people in poverty like keeping the person on the bottom of the well...if the safety net is removed the careless will fall but everyone else will be more careful" You have never put forth a coherent plan for replacing the rope to help people get out. In fact, unemployment insurance, one of the social programs that you so hate, does exactly that: it provides a lifeline for those who have been laid off so that they can live while they look for a new job. As for "being careful", people who have just been laid off from their jobs cannot have been more or less careful. They were just laid off from their jobs. In this age of massive corporate and factory layoffs, that is not surprising. I would like you to talk to some of these people. To tell someone who works two jobs (at Walmart and Sears) trying to support herself on her meager salary; a person who needs their welfare check to survive; that she should be more careful and learn how to manage her money. In short, you have never been able to answer any of the following points: 1. That social welfare programs help people out of poverty. 2. That they are not devastating to the economy. 3. That you have no viable proposal for anything else. 4. That trickle-down economics have been tried and they have failed. 5. That most poor people are, in fact, employed and hard-working; or searching for a job. I have, therefore, won the debate.