The categorizations of "Good" and "bad" are illusions and nothing more. (and so is morality)

Harlan, The problem with your thinking is not something that can be overcome with logic. You have completely discredited the human mind in all perceptions, and therefore your argument is simply too abstract to be debated. First, you have absolutely no true evidence that there is no purpose for anything, that the particles just "exist" with no reason or goal. Maybe you have chosen to have no purpose or goal, but the overwhelming majority of people in this country and world would probably laugh at that notion. Your belief is simply nothing more than a theory, and your philosophy friends have nothing more than a theory as well. And if you use the argument that nothing that is perceived in our minds can be used as evidence, then you discredit your argument as well, because it was conjured up in your mind, which means it is not real and just your own individual perception, which means it is nothing and can accomplish nothing. The problem with your thinking is that it is a classic thinking of those who want to go through life with no responsibility, no goal, no drive, no purpose, and most importantly, no accountability for their actions. People like that are dangerous. If a person can rationalize in their mind that there is nothing bad or immoral about rape or murder or molesting a child or genocide, then they are a very dangerous person to human existence in general. But it is awfully convenient for those who just don't have any desire to better themselves in any way. Another problem with how abstract your thinking is would be the idea that there is no limit to how illogical you can really get. Ever seen the matrix? "there is no spoon"...right? According to your logic, it really doesn't matter that we are even having this debate, because neither of us are right or wrong, as a matter of fact, we are not even opposing eachother because there is no such thing as opposition. Really, whos to say you are even having this debate, it could all be an illusion, in your mind. Im not really here, this website doesn't exist, the computer you are typing on isn't really there. Your argument lacks two very important things, logic and foundation. Finally, the third problem with your debate is the arrogance..."if you think there is a cause, then please share so I may pick it apart"..."you obviously don't understand determinism at all, I can see". You have no desire to hear another side, just to belittle it. And more importantly, as I see right through you, you don't even really want to advance your ideas, you want to advance yourself. Your goal is not to convince others of your ideas, but convince them of how smart harlan is, and how he is intellectually above his opponent. This is not debating, this is condescending and arrogance. It does not help my friend. Eventually you will need to realize something...there is a such thing as truth. There is a such thing as "is" and "isn't". People are free to choose what they think right and wrong is, that has to do with their religious beliefs. They can believe the ten commandments constitute morality, or the koran, or any belief system. That governs an individuals morality. However, the abstract ideas that you have presented are illogical, unproven, and quite frankly, ridiculous. The difference between our arguments, is that yours comes from a mind that doesn't believe the mind has any credibility in determining truth, or anything real for that matter. That means that you can't actually believe that your argument can be truth, or even real. Its all an illusion to you. If you think that you are right in any way, you contradict yourself, and all of your credibility actually does disappear. Just think a little more realistically. P.S.-Answer me just one question, do you believe there was nothing wrong with the holocaust?