Having bad table manners makes you a less liked person.

I was a little worried that you wouldn't get to post. But it's a good thing you did so this debate can continue… Good luck with your final speech. Beginning with an overview… My opponent has only shown how good manners are a good idea. He has shown how he would like a please or thank you, but has not shown how if he did not get a please or thank you, that he would think of them ANY less. We agree that good manners are a good idea but if you happen to have bad manners, it doesn't make you automatically less liked. Now days, everyone at school puts their elbows on the table. If someone talks with their mouth open, the only thing I don't like is the bad manner, not the person. If I saw you chew with your mouth open at a debate tournament, I would still consider you a good guy. If I saw my mom fail to say thank you to the person at McDonald's, I wouldn't judge her to be any less of a person. Sometimes people forget or simply weren't taught to do so. A bad manner does NOT make a bad person. Onto direct refutation I.--> He talks about "no effect" not meaning anything… but he is wrong. If there is no effect from bad manners, it does NOT make you less liked, therefore being con. What you will see in this resolution is that when there are made table manners, it does not automatically make you less liked which yet has to be proven by pro. For example, in my opponent's first and second speech, he did not say thank you… BUT, I do not think of him any less at all. You see, he may not consider that to be a "manner", but I may. Since I understand people's differences in what they think is proper, I do not expect any one else to do what I consider to be good mannered. It's nice if someone else has good manners, but it has no effect on my thought of the person. A1--> What do you think it takes to be an expert on this debate? This debate IS about the opinions of the common citizen (such as my friend). He agrees with me that they are a good idea, but if someone doesn't do them, it doesn't make your opinion of them any worse. A2 You're right, people aren't enforcing this manner. You know there isn't a set list of table manners which means that people may not have the same idea of table manners. Our old foreign exchange student from Switzerland thought us Americans look like pigs with some of the things we eat and how we eat them. But that had no effect on how he thought of us. He understood that what goes on in his country may not go on in our country. A3 Again, the elbows on the table may be EXTREMELY rude to someone. But in general, it is not going to lessen the way they like you. It may lead to them liking you less, but it will NOT be the reason they don't like you. AND for CERTAIN, not everyone will change their opinion of you… cross-apply the examples of me, my friend, and our foreign exchange student. With that, you will see that it will NOT make you a less liked person. B Actually, just a few weekends ago we used proper settings at my Grandma's house… Me and my cousins were all making jokes about it and in result, no one thought of anyone any less. In fact, we had fun, our friendships actually got better. And as far as you saying that no one knows how to do that. I learned in school… forks on left… spoon and knife on right… plate with an inch of space in-between the edge of the table and the edge of the plate (as well as the utensils)… generally, you go from the left to the right with the utensils… cup/glass in upper-right hand corner with a special little plate under that… If you don't follow that, I don't think of you any differently… C Well, although I don't work at McDonald's, I do work at Kmart… And although I do like an occasional thank you, I don't expect it. I think better of the people that say thanks, but I don't think worse of someone who doesn't, to me, they are just another customer… average if you will. If you have a customer at McDonald's and they don't say thank you, do you really think they are evil? Furthermore, why did you start this debate with the parameters if you're not going to follow them… you said in round 1 that, "we are not talking about people that do not dine with the person in question"… That specifically breaks your own parameter… * Although you may have mentioned some proper manners, you have yet to appropriately show what the bad manner is and HOW it makes you less liked as the resolution asks… II… you said, "It really does make it better when you are polite."… BUT it doesn't make you worse when you DON'T… it only makes you average ----you also said, "do you want to hear someone burp before devouring their entire plate in a single bite?"… well, I don't really mind but even if I did, it wouldn't have an effect on me… my cousins ALWAYS do that stuff but it has no effect on how any of my family members view them… Your case I Although if you look WORD FOR WORD you contradict yourself, I have already attacked that… so I'll continue with saying that yes, the lunch ladies are due a thank you… there is no debate there… but where the debate IS, your not. You have yet to prove that the lunch ladies think of people less when you fail to say thank you. Let's just say that every student has rating of 50 out of 100 for likeness to start out with (from the lunch ladies). If I say thank you, let's just say that my rating goes up to 60. Table manners helped people to like me more… BUT as the average student goes through the line, they do not say thank you. As I stated before, VERY FEW kids say thank you, so is there any reason for them to think of them less if what their doing is the same as everyone else…? II Your first impression arguments has two big flaws… 1) You assume that the first impression is the final impression… My thought of someone changes any way… 2) People try MUCH harder to make a good impression, therefore, the first impression will probably be a good impression and if it isn't, there is inevitably other "things" that make him a less liked person. III I sound like an LDer… haha… thanks for the compliment… wait James…you sound like a policy debater… no… have you turned to the dark side??????? Haha, just kidding……. But your logic in "III" is out there to say the least. People form relationships because of manners? People form relationships because they like each other, manners help but do NOT hinder the way people like each other. You big argument about why people like each other less has a lot to do with relationships but NOTHING to do with friends and family… I challenge you to apply it to these two entities as well… AND yes, I do continue "seeing" people if they have bad manners… In the end, manners have a good effect when followed but have no bad effect when not applied. Manners are so variant that it's impossible to even write up a list specific "table manners" so you can't even tell when to "like someone less." There simply isn't enough content on pro to prove that bad manners WILL make someone think of you less… Therefore, I urge a CON vote… I await your next speech… (have a nice April!)