Faith can be based on facts

I guess we should begin by defining our terms. Faith [1] 1. Allegiance to duty or a person. 2a. Belief and trust in and loyalty to God. 2b. Firm belief in something of which there is no proof. 3a. Something that is believed with strong conviction. 3b. A system of religious belief. Facts [2] 1. Something that truly exists or happens, something that has actual existence 3. A true piece of information. Since my opponent didn't specify which definition of faith we are dealing with, I'm going to have to use his round 1 examples to infer which type he is referring to. I'm going to rule out definition 1 since it doesn't fit with the examples Pro gave. 2b and 3a fit the examples Pro used to describe what he is generally talking about. 2a and 3b seem related to each other, but not directly related to what Pro is describing. I'm going to completely rule out Faith def. 1 as the topic. I'm not going to address Faith def. 2a and 3b since Pro didn't specify we are talking about religion. I will address this debate from the perspective that Pro is referring to definitions 2b and 3a since they most closely fit Pro's examples. Faith and Fact for this debate Faith 2b. A firm belief for something in which there is no proof 3a. Something which is believed with strong conviction Fact 1. Something that truly exists or happens, something that has actual existence 2. A true piece of information I think we can already see a contradiction between faith and fact. It seems to me, when one is present, the other is absent. I know for a fact that I have a daughter. I can present much evidence to myself or another person that demonstrates her existence. I can weigh her, confirming she is real. I can take pictures. I can ask others if they see her. I can have her move things. There are many things I can do to verify her existence. I don't need faith to know my daughter exists. I have facts that show she does. If I have no evidence which demonstrates the fact that Santa Claus exists, I must rely on faith in order to support that belief. If someone were to present evidence that proves the existence of Santa Claus, his existence becomes a fact and no longer is faith needed. Both faith and fact are used to justify the belief in something. However, they aren't used together. When facts are available, faith isn't needed. When facts aren't available, faith is needed. One replaces the other. Facts don't support faith, facts replace faith and faith replaces facts. Lets look at Pro's examples to see how this works 1. "A man has faith someone won't rob him today because it never happened. " This faith statement is related to today. The facts of today are yet to be uncovered. There are no facts from today that support today's belief that the man will not be robbed today. The fact that the man hasn't been robbed in the past doesn't, in a factual manner, support the conclusion that he won't be robbed today. Everyday someone is robbed for the first time. The man may be that someone. His faith that he won't be robbed today isn't supported by a fact that he won't be robbed today. When the day is over, and the man wasn't robbed, it then becomes a fact that he wasn't robbed. What just happened? Fact replaced faith. We return to the definitions, faith: 3a, Something which is believed with strong conviction. This fits the man's faith position. He strongly believes he won't be robbed, this is yet to be a fact. When the day concludes, and the man isn't robbed, it becomes a fact that he wasn't robbed. Fact: A true piece of information. The man began with a faith position that he wouldn't be robbed, a strong belief. He concluded with a fact position that he wasn't robbed, conclusion supported by the fact he wasn't robbed. Fact replaces faith. 2. "Someone has faith when their friend promises to do something because they always do the (thing) they promise to do. " This is effectively the same example as above. A person has faith a promise will be kept later. If it is later, the person cannot know for a fact that the promise will be kept. The belief that promise A will be kept, isn't support by the fact that promise A was kept. The friend may let them down for a variety of reasons. When the promise is kept, it becomes a fact that is was kept. At this point faith is replaced with fact. Past experiences of the friend keeping promises isn't a fact that future promises will be kept. It increases the probability that they will. But faith is still required to believe the friend will keep today's promise. When the friend does, it becomes fact. Again fact replaces faith. 3. "Someone has faith their friend won't die in the hospital because the doctors are taking good care of them. " There is no fact here supporting the faith position. The friend may die. It isn't until the friend leaves the hospital that they surviving the hospital becomes a fact. Once again fact replaces faith. Which if you look back to the definition of both is what you would expect to happen. Faith is the belief that the friend will survive. Fact is the statement that the friend has survived. 4. "Someone will have confidence they will win a race because they rarely ever lost. " Same problem as the above three. The person may lose. When the race is decided, the person will know what the facts of the race are, maybe they won, maybe they lost. Again, faith is needed when the unknown is believed, when the unknown is know, that becomes a fact, faith disappears. I've tried to make the case that both faith and fact is a type of support for belief. When facts are present faith is unnecessary. When facts aren't present, faith becomes necessary to support belief. This seems to be supported by the definition of the two words. Bob has a "firm belief" he won't be robbed today. But he has no "proof" he won't be robbed today. This is faith, by cited definition. Bob finishes his day. He wasn't robbed. Fact def. "A true piece of information" No longer does Bob need faith for his conclusion. Bob in fact wasn't robbed today. Fact replaces faith. I think I will turn the debate over to Pro at this moment. I look forward to reading your arguments. 1 . http://www.merriam-webster.com... 2. . http://www.merriam-webster.com... P. S. I have a sneaky little notion Hebrews 11:1 is on someones mind. We shall see if it shows up.