The abortion limit should be set at 20 weeks

Thank you for your response. If you were to value something material in this world, it would be because you think it enhances your life, or because it is an asset. A candy wrapper has no innate value once its purpose is served, and will not be missed once it is disposed of. But human life is something that cannot be and should not be measured on theories based on our own best guess of when a baby has value. A baby is alive, and will eventually be able of making its own choices. But because it's still in development, and it inconveniences the mom, you'll deprive the living being of its unalienable rights, and put them in the hands of another? Tell me, why does a newborn baby have the same value as an adult in your eyes? The baby certainly has nothing to offer the world, and is actually not deemed useful to the world. The only one that can give value to the baby, is the mother, there is no magical moral or scientific way to determine value, because if the mom does not see the developing human as valuable, then it will be killed regardless of what it can feel. The same argument goes for newborns, the baby is still completely dependent on the mother, and if the mother decides that the baby isn't valuable or an asset to her, she could kill it. She has the ability to, but the funny thing about humans and where they draw the line, is that as long as you can't see it die or hear it scream, it's almost like it never happens. But God forbid she kills the baby when it's actually born, because it magically has value of some sort now that it's born. If you believe that pain and the awareness of that pain is required in order to hand value to a being, we might as well all be vegans, no, even more so than that, not eat at all. Because who are we to say that animals, and even plants, who feel on some sort of level, should not be killed for our consumption? They have emotions, and they feel pain as well. And if you define value based on an organisms ability to feel pain, we would all be dead. "It is scientific and moral. We can test scientifically our pleasure and pain and it is moral as the only reason for an act being immoral is if it causes pain. Stealing is not wrong unless it causes others pain." So referring to one of my points in the last round, if you killed a full grown adult in their sleep, but it doesn't cause the victim pain, or any sorrow to anyone who might have been close to them, it is moral? Because that would completely go against what you said before when you stated that you thought it would be wrong to kill an adult human because they are "beings with interests." With pain being so subjective, and so shallow, it cannot bear the tension of functioning as the fulcrum of leverage for value and worth. If our ability to feel defines who we are, does that mean a person without nerve endings is worthless? I doubt you'd agree with that statement, so if the same can't apply for adult human beings who don't have the ability to feel pain, how could it apply for a developing human being who can't feel pain either? "Morality only exists because there is a preferable/ valuable outcome of acting a certain way. It is not the value in itself that I care about, but the reason for the value." What if the reason for the value is for a human being to experience life? Life can be cruel, and usually is. I know. But if you use that as an excuse to end a child's life before it begins, you've already voided them the chance to have "interests", as you've said before. The reason for the value is plain and simple, but the desire to change morality comes from a place of selfish desire vs human life, which really isn't a new argument at all. This philosophy is carried out in war and politics all the time, and people cry injustice over those topics. But with abortion, you top it with the guise of caring about the mother's life and wanting to end the child's life in the most humane way as possible (does that not sound sick to you?), and suddenly selfish interests are pit against something that wasn't ever supposed to be in question: Human life.