There are no arguments for God that cannot be refuted.

So, hello, my opponent petersaysstuff. Hope you are doing well :) . Definition: Change: "to undergo transformation, transition, or substitution"[2], or in other words, from one state to another.Argument 1 Before proceeding into argument one, I would like to also prove that the universe could not have created itself: - to saying that "something created itself" is a verbal absurdity for it is impossible for something to exist before itself and after itself at the same time. In other words if it is the "creator" of something then it must exist before it. And if it is created then it must exist after its "creator". Therefore, the merger of these two cases leads to an impossibility and what ever leads to an impossibility is itself impossible. If this is absurd, then claiming that nature created the world is more absurd, for if the world could not create itself, it would not be created by a part of itself. Ok: This is a Muslim argument, but, I feel it is nice. Premise A: We exist here today. Premise B: Before we existed there were a series of events, one after another leading up to our existence today. (The passing of such a series of events is what we call time, and measure in minutes, days, weeks and years.) If one accepts Premise A, then one must also accept that the series of events in premise B must have a beginning. This must be, because if someone claims that an eternal/beginning-less amount of events had to be concluded before his existence, then he is saying that eternity came to an end, which is a contradiction in terms. It is like if someone said “this car will only get to its destination after its wheels have spun infinitely many times,” and then claimed that the car arrived at its destination. It is clear, however, that the car could never have gotten to its destination if an infinite number of spins was the condition for its arrival. Those who claim that the world has no beginning are in fact saying that it is a prerequisite for tomorrow to arrive that an infinite number of events first take place. This is impossible, because infinity cannot end. Clearly then, the number of events that precedes our existence must have a limit. In addition, since it is necessarily true that this series of events has a beginning, then it must also be that before this beginning there were no series of events (defined as anything with a beginning). If someone claimed otherwise, then they would end up with the same contradiction (saying that infinity came to an end). Accordingly, the claim that the world was created by random events is irrational. Rather, there must be a Creator that gave the series of events existence, since it was nonexistent before it began. Moreover, since it is impossible for there to be any events before the existence of this series, then it must also be that the Creator is not attributed with events, i.e. with any attribute or action that has a beginning. This again means that the Creator does not resemble the creations, since all created attributes must have a beginning. Actually, having a beginning and being a creation is the same thing. This is because to create is to bring into existence, and everything with a beginning must have been brought into existence. We know from the above, by mathematical precision and logical necessity, that the Creator exists and does not resemble His creation. From the fact that the world has a beginning, we have proven that it must have a creator. The name of this creator is Allah in Arabic. If someone asks, “Who created Allah?” we say Allah does not have a creator, and does not need one as He has no beginning. If someone then asks, “how can you accept that Allah has no beginning, while you do not accept that the world has no beginning?” The answer is that we have shown that the world has a beginning based on the fact that it changes (changes are events). We do not believe, however, that Allah changes. Rather, we believe The Creator is One, and doesn’t change and has no beginning. The fact that Allah does not resemble His creation can also be known by saying that since The Creator's existence must be (as shown above), then it cannot also be merely possible (since “must be” and “possible” are incompatible meanings – something cannot be both a must and a possibility at the same time). Therefore, The Creator must be clear of any attribute that belongs to the possible category of things. For example, weakness, limits, boundaries and needs are attributes that may or may not have existence; their existence depends on them being created; their existence is a possibility, not a must. They need a Creator to specify their limits. We know that we need a Creator, because we know that our own attributes need specification. We know they need specification because they have limits, and limits must be specified. For example, if you pointed at a table in a room and said, “Who made it in that shape?” and someone answered, “No one, it is just there like that eternally!” Would you accept this? Of course not, because we know anything limited needs someone to specify it. If someone asked: If an event can be defined as an action that has a beginning and giving a series of events existence is an action with a beginning (and if it’s not, then what is it?), then how can one rationally conclude, based on the logic presented above, that the Creator is not attributed with events? The answer to this is that we did not define events as actions having a beginning, but as “anything that has a beginning.” Actions may have a beginning, namely the actions of creation – as they all share this resemblance, or they may not, namely the actions of Allah. Allah does not resemble His creation, so He is not an event or attributed with events. This is because to “create” is to “bring into existence,” and all events are therefore by definition created. As Allah’s attributes are not creations, they are not events. Last but not least, in attempt to confuse, or out of confusion some may ask: “What if the world’s existence is cyclical?” Our answer to this is that cycles are still one cycle one after another, so they are events. Some may also ask, in an attempt to confuse: “Before Allah created this series of events, was He able to create another series or not?” Our answer to this is that this is a nonsensical question, because what we established was that there must be an event that is first, regardless of the number of series, or the number of worlds preceding the current one. We also established that Allah’s actions are not events, so they are not described with a “before.” [1] In conclusion, the universe is need of a Creator for its existence. Argument 2 1) Whatever changes has a beginning* 2) This world has many changes occurring in it** _______________________________________________ Therefore, the universe has a beginning. You must conclude that the universe is need of a Creator, (after all, it existed after non-existence and could not have created itself) and that The Creator is clear of change/transformation. Explanation: *Whatever changes from one state to another has a beginning. This is because the change must have a beginning, otherwise, if one claims that the change has no beginning, then it never happened. This is because whatever has no beginning, has no end, and change is to go from one state to another. So, the change would have never got to the next form/occurred if it was beginning-less. Since the change has a beginning, so must the thing which is undergoing it. **Humans undergo a lot of changes. E.g. : Baby à adult à grave. Since we know the universe has a beginning, it’s existence is dependent upon something which doesn’t change. The person must then conclude that there must be a Creator for this universe. [1] http://sunnianswers.wordpress.com...[2] http://www.merriam-webster.com...