Resolution: Evolution is an observed fact

Round Title: Genetic change alone does not constitute for evolution. This is about Evolution not natural selection, I know that. Like I have told you in the comments, I haven't spoken about Natural Selection anywhere is this debate. Evolution is 'the relation of species to one another (both in appearance and genetically), and the idea that there is genetic change over time.' One must know and OBSERVE that genetic change happening, the moment of evolution must be OBSERVED. You say: "we have actually observed this genetic change in the case of bacteria." No, you observed a difference in the genetic composition of a populations at two separate dates. No causal factors? If you mean muation I don't see why the causes cannot be discussed. See this: The second exponent of 2 is 4, 2^2. '2' is the domain, 'f(^2)' is the function. '4' is the codomain. E coli(-) = f - domain f(evolution) - function E coli(+) - codomain As a function: f: X -> Y[2] The cause is this case is the function, having only E coli(-) then E coli(+) is nothing unless I observe the binary fission of a bacterium that results in a gene that has a different genetic composition to the parent. All genetic changes can potentially have another cause, how do you not know that cell cannot replicate without meiosis eg protein composition in the ribosome becoming a nucleus? It hasn't been shown as impossible. Don't get me wrong, they're not mutuality exclusive however evolution is not the only choice, saying it is is a fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses. 2(f) = 4 E coli(-)(f) = E coli(+) I must know without a doubt what 'f' is. To prove evolution it's not enough to say here is species B-2, and two weeks later, here is species B-3. One must prove, through OBSERVATION that one evolved to another. It's the final round and you still haven't shown me evidence of anyone making an OBSERVATION of the mutation. This is the final round and I'd hate to see Pro giving new evidence now. So Resolution Affermed. I will follow each example Pro gives and see if they love up to this (below first =>). We have evidence "that (species of) organism's experience genetic change" but it's not evolution until I know what these causal factors are. Why? Because without the cause it's not evolution it's merely the difference in the genetic composition of a population over time. If you still disagree with this here are two common definitions of evolution, the biological and the general. 1(The general) Gradual directional change especially one leading to a more advanced or complex form.[2] 2(The biological) The change in the genetic composition of a population over successive generations.[2] -In biology, evolution is change in traits of a population of organisms over time (due to a number of mechanisms and processes). In other contexts, the term evolution can mean any gradual directional change.[3] Again, someone MUST OBSERVE the change, the mutation, the transition that proves a genetic mutation, evolution, has occurred. <====> The Cases, Many of these cases are, well… useless, they prove polypoidy exists and can be found in both domestic and wild species of plants, seeds and fruits. That is there main conclusion, see all the abstracts and conclusion sections to the links for evidence. Any further conclusions are that they MAY have occurred because of ‘X' reason. Eg. "It is suggested that these are true autopolyploids that have probably arisen through somatic doubling since tetraploid cell lines were found in some anther loculi."[#2] They are rarely linked to evolution or cell mitosis and even when they are linked it's only a POSSSIBLE connection. #1) http://www.cazv.cz... Citrus polypoids Seedlings recovered from underdeveloped seeds of different commercial cultivars of Citrus were studied for their plolypoid level. Chromosomal analysis showed that many had tetraploid and triploid chromosome numbers both in domestic and natural seeds. That is all the conclusions they made, relevance to this debate, I have no idea. Polyploidy exists, maybe? #2) http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com... Poaceae(False grass) polyploids Conclusions: Tetraploid and triploid chromosomes exist in Poacease grasses. #3) http://web.mac.com... The best link, neopolyploidy – and frequency. I only read ‘introduction' and ‘polyploidy and phenotypic evolution', Conclusions: Polyploids show distinctive phenotypic traits, polyploids are commonly differentiated from progenitor diploids by a combination of morphological, reproductive, phenological, life-history, and physiological traits – examples followed. SUGGESTED, NON-FACT causes for these traits - increased DNA content, population genetics, gene dosage effects, infertility, allelic diversity, genetic load ect. #4) http://www.plantbiology.msu.edu... Factual Conclusions: Polyploidy exists in yeasts, insects, amphibians, reptiles, and fishes, estimate rate of tetraploid formation is of the same order as the genic mutation rate (10^-5), in plants, polyploidy represents a major mechanism of adaptation and speciation, rates of polyploidy in many species, triploids are often semifertile, and contribute to tetraploid formation. Possible/Suggested Conclusions: Gene duplication suggests that the mammalian genome has a polyploid origin, unreduced gametes are the major mechanism of polyploid formation. #5) (removed for space; see round 2) Sorry, but due to time I can't give a full analysis, however I have read it, and like the others it's irrelevant. #6) http://www.cababstractsplus.org... Sorry, but due to time I can't give a full analysis, however I have read it, and like the others it's irrelevant. >Concerning E Coli< Evolution: "Evolution is the change in the inherited traits of a population" or "genetic composition of a species changes over time". Did the E coli's genetic composition change over time? Yes. Is the moment of evolution/change(binary fission) recorded? No. Both answers must be without a doubt yeses for the genetic change to constitute as evolution and not merely differences in genetic composition over time. <====> Miscellaneous Defenses, Natural Selection Natural selection isn't a cause for evolution, mutation is. Mutation is the only cause for evolution. Natural selection is the means in which the mutated (evolved) species became a majority, the allele frequency increases, but even in this case, they must have been a ‘prime evolver' some time or another. [4] Virion According to Wikipedia antiviral drugs are a form antibiotics since they kill microorganisms[5]. From Pro's own link[6][http://www.drreddy.com...]: "Some unfortunately all too common -- for bacteria and some viruses to "learn" how to survive even with antibiotics around." Some Antibiotics do affect the ribosomes in a way that the virions cannot reproduce themselves. Ring species, I didn't know if I was supposed to reply for this, it's true but ring species are no different to any other evolved species. What led you to stating this? 'Captured' By captured, I meant observed on a 1 to 1, bacteria to bacteria basis, bacteria evolved to bacteria. I understand your argument very well. [1] Logic, Induction and Sets, Thomas Forster. [2] http://en.wiktionary.org... [3] http://en.wikipedia.org...(disambiguation) [4] http://openlearn.open.ac.uk... [5] http://www.answers.com... [6] Pro's Round 2 - Link 1