Outlawing the burning of Americas flag will hurt patriotism

Happy Thanksgiving to you too! 1) As according to your challenge, here I am. You suspect that the experts on this subject are head council members like Chris Dempsey or Justin Dan McCarthy. These people are experts at Boy Scout Paperwork stuff. They don't have time to hang out in the 'field' and see firsthand just how the reverence of these retirement ceremonies by burning have on our scouts, the kids that our organization is all about. If these guys have any knowledge about how it's good or bad, its from there past experience as a Scoutmaster or Assistant Scoutmaster or parent of a scout while they still were in the 'field' working with the scouts. And this referred to position is one that I currently hold, Assistant Scoutmaster. I know it sounds kind of arrogant to label myself the expert for this topic but there is no other source worth going to for this topic than the volunteers who actually talk to the scouts, and better yet were once these scouts. I can tell you during my time as a scout my patriotism was greatly shaken by this video. http://www.youtube.com... And you know what boosted it back up? Participating in one of these flag retirement ceremonies. there is not much better evidence for how this practice we are arguing on affects a scout, than for a scout to tell you just how it affected him. 2) His credentials you would find are very similar to mine, if not greater. he's been an assistant scoutmaster since I started scouts. the fact he even holds a retirement ceremony shows he views the practice as worthwhile. But as I said I could never prove to you that it's not still me typing on this computer only claiming to be him. 3) You said: 'Regarding "flag burning," a distinction should be made 'flag retirement by burning' ( http://en.wikipedia.org...... ) and 'flag desecration' ( http://en.wikipedia.org...... ).' well not in this debate, see round one. Even if I were to give focus in this debate to flag desecration it remains damaging to patriotism because in order to outlaw that the bill of rights must be changed witch is the pillar that Americans primarily use to justify their patriotism to this country. this is a great country because we can say what we want, hence think what we want and not be punished by our country for it. Freedom of speech 'with exceptions' is not freedom at all. American patriotism and the gratefulness for our freedom go hand in hand. 4) I would like to address this point you made because it is the first time this debate you have actually argued against the flag retirement ceremony I cited rather than argue about how I have argued. "I argue that flag retirement by burning should be outlawed. I am absolutely opposed to burning the flag for any reason. I am absolutely opposed to all public flag burning ceremonies. The less that the flag is burned in public, the less the act of flag burning will be in the peoples' consciousness. The less that the act of flag burning exists in the public consciousness, the less likely it is that political dissenters will burn the flag to express their dissent." It's interesting how this argument is subject to the same criticisms you gave my arguments, that this is just speculation. However I do not guess this matters much since as you said you are supporting a negative. Either way, you speculation is wrong. How would you define public? is it 3 people together somewhere that are not related? what about 10? Are my scout troop meetings public? what of family reunions at a school house? Is school public when people have to go there? Dissenter's will find somewhere to burn there flags in the presence of others, maybe even people who are not one of them, if its outlawed. Far worse for them to regularly burn flags only among themselves for that makes for a stronger unified cult. this stronger cult has more resolve to commit to something like rebellion; and history shows that kind of attitude spreads. http://en.wikipedia.org... 5) You then proposed flag owner's privately bury there flag anywhere. Like the word public, privately is left undefined. Are the scouts cut out of this? without grown-ups there, should his patriotism been shaken by the Loose change video he may use this 'private' opportunities to privately desecrate the flag, not dignify. thus cementing his anti-patriotism. On another point here, see how reliable Occam's razor was? I said if you don't incinerate it that leaves landfill. you have simply specified special locations for the landfill for only flags (rather than the public dump). you might be right about the ground pollution if all flags were made out of cotton. http://www.custommadeflags.com... but a lot are made of plastic. And don't worry about the air pollution there are holes in the Ozone so it will seep out =). 6) "In fact, it may be that the disappearance of flag burning from contemporary may even result in the disappearance of flag desecration by other means to express political protest." No; Logically other means will increase in public since the method of burning has been made illegal for them, they have to resort to other methods, such as peeing on the flag, painting swastikas on it, maybe they will become creative with the flag pole and replace the eagle with an Iron fist. All that will really be accomplished is elimination of the preferred way of retirement of the flag with dignity. 7) You are right about this. "there are other methods of promoting patriotism through the use of the flag. Here is an example: http://www.herald-mail.com...... I argue that this PUBLIC ACT by a boy scout troop promotes patriotism." but its also irrelevant. there are lots of way's of venerating our country, like singing to the national anthem, or to Toby Keith's Courtesy of the Red White and Blue. But limiting the freedom of how we may express that veneration will harm patriotism. there is a great deal of good symbolism we have with fire that is not offered with leaving them on tombstones. Fire is a reference to light. So often this country is called a city on a hill because we light the way by example. Fire is light. Fire is also symbolic for energy, enthusiasm, passion. This is appropriate for patriotism for the heart of this country (as it ought to be anyway). The veterans buried in the cemetery referred to in the herald are symbolic of people who fought to protect there families, not necessarily there country. That's all I've got for this round. One more to go!