Mormons are Christians

I will structure my rebuttals and responses in such manner: Rebuttal #1 l The Historicity of Joesph Smith's First Vision Rebuttal #2 l Gordon B. Hinkley Quote Rebuttal #3 l The Nature of Jesus Christ and More Rebuttal #1 l The Historicity of Joesph Smith's First Vision My opponent has an interesting response to my remarks concerning Joesph Smith's First Vision, in that he almost concedes the point. He responded in two ways that I can observe, 1) an appeal to confusion about the historicity of events with Jesus life, 2) that making up a story doesn't make one, not a Christian. In regards to his first response, I will agree that there is indeed some confusion on the events of Jesus' life. For instance, we have interpolations such as the Pericope Adulterae (John 7:53-John 8:11), or textual criticism around other various sayings. What I don't see is how this gets Mormons off the hook on behalf of their inventive founder. Jesus is a historical figure who lived thousands of years ago, and we have a limited amount of information about these events so as to leave experts pretty well divided. This is not so with Joesph Smith, who lived a relatively short time ago. These accounts are also not spoken of about him, but rather are written down himself. Since Joesph Smith's life is well documented, we can discover a great deal more about his character. Therefore, I contend that my opponents response does not address the fundamental issue. That if the basis upon which the Mormon Church is founded is a lie, then their conception of Christ and status as a Christian cannot be substantiated. The second response that my opponent made was very interesting. It in a sense granted for the sake of argument that Joesph Smith was a liar, but that this wouldn't disqualify him as being a Christian/Prophet. There are some big problems with granting this for a Mormon. 1) The First Vision Account from Joesph Smith is essential in order to substantiate Smith's entire reasoning for seeking to found a new church. That he was told by God (and Jesus), that all the other churches were an abomination, and that he had been set apart to start a new one, or rather restore the truth of the gospel. Without this first account, the rest of the narrative that Smith portrays is groundless and false. 2) The account is not just something in the Narrative, it has been Canonized by the Mormon church in the Joesph Smith History Chapter 1. [1] This would then set a precedent that portions of Canonized documents from the prophets may be falsified information. The entire addition of the Mormon Canon (BoM, PoGP, D&C) can be quickly refuted on these grounds. Time constrains me from breaking down every single one of Joesph Smith's falsehoods, but this one is so central and clear that no other needs to be listed. Rebuttal #2 l Gordon B. Hinkley Quote In Gordon B. Hinkley's quote, he explicitly states that they believe and follow a different Christ. He didn't say that Mormon's simply believe different things about the same Christ, but rather that they reject the "traditional Christ" for the Christ who has been revealed in this present dispensation. If Christ wasn't revealed in this present dispensation, and Joesph Smith was a liar. Then the Christ of the Mormon church is not real, but rather a shadow of the one presented in the Bible. Based upon the Biblical character, but drastically altered so as to be independent and exclusive to Mormonism. In other words, either Mormons are the only Christians, or they are not Christians at all, since they are speaking of two different Christs. If someone lies about meeting Christ in person, then makes up a new gospel on account of that meeting, which then supersedes all of history, I do not see how such a person can be designated by that historical distinction of "Christian. " Rebuttal #3 l The Nature of Jesus Christ and More Mormons believe some things about Jesus that are so different so as to constitute two distinct individuals. For instance, the historical conception and Biblical conception of Jesus is that he is an eternal being, having always existed as Deity. In Mormon doctrine this is not the case, but rather Jesus is a literally begotten son of God, along with his brother Lucifer. He then is exalted to be a God. This conception of henotheism within Mormonism is one of the primary reasons that Mormons are not Christians, as it contradicts not only Scripture, but historical Christianity as far back as it can be ascertained. The findings the Council of Nicaea were not a new discovery or invention, but rather the orthodox response to the heresy of Arianism. Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. [2] This text presents many problems for Mormonism. First, it negates the possibility of another God being formed before or after Yahweh (or Jehovah as Mormons understand the tetragrammaton name of God). Second, Mormons interpret the name Jehovah as being unique to Jesus, while Elohim being God the Father. This would then be understood that before Jesus, no other God was formed before or after. This would lead one to conclude that Jesus was eternal, yet not even the Father in Mormonism is eternal but too was once a man who became an exalted God. [3] In response to the analogy, my opponent offered a different analogy that does not convey the same message as mine. In a sense, he offered a weaker analogy in order to refute the one I presented. Rather than going off of distinct and unchangeable physical features, he went off of characteristics that can only be perceived. This is not the analogy I presented, nor is it representative of my argument in that there are huge distinct differences in the historical conception of Christ and the Mormon view, such to the degree that even your prophets conclude that it is a different Christ. Therefore, if the founder of the Mormon faith has presented a falsehood as the foundation of the faith, then the conception of Christ must also be false. This would mean that Mormon's follow a different and false Christ, making them not Christians. Regards, TrueScotsman [1] . https://www.lds.org... [2] Isaiah 43:10 (KJV) [3] Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-346