salvation

Sorry for the misunderstanding Con, my main point here is obedience, obedience to the gospel, Con says again and again in what the scriptures say of how to be saved, tells us about saved by grace through faith, saved by God, saved by faith alone, well I do not contradict that teaching, except the faith alone - Let us see what saved by GRACE THROUGH FAITH REALLY MEANS: Do Nothing Salvation would be if God came down from Heaven, (and without a person saying or doing anything) if God then personally said to them, "You used to be a lost sinner, but now, without you doing anything, I am changing you into a saved sinner." That's it, that is the ONLY possible way, that a person could preach a do nothing plan of Salvation. But of course we know that no person will ever experience such an event because that would make God a liar. Here is the HEART of a Do Nothing Salvation Doctrine. It begins with their inaccurate understanding of Saved by Grace through Faith and not by Works. And this deceptive understanding in turn stems from the false definition of GRACE. Their definition of Grace is what tragically provides the supporting foundation for the do nothing salvation Doctrine. Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved, through faith, and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast. If someone gives you a gift certificate for a thousand dollars, and the conditions of the certificate declare that you must do what it asks on the certificate (as commanded in the terms of the Covenant on the certificate), How could you possibly ever try and say, that obeying those commands is equal to WORKING for that gift ? ? That is just simply absurd. Just imagine someone saying this to the Gift Giver, " I simply refuse to do what you ask (as You have commanded here in the terms of your Covenant) in order to redeem your gift certificate because if I were to do that, then I would be working for your free gift, so therefore ... " I'm gonna refuse to accept the terms of your Covenant and I'm gonna do things my way. " people who relies on this doctrine defines God's grace as: God's Grace Grace = Having to Do absolutely Nothing in order for them to obtain the gift of Heaven. Well first off, God declares that we must be faithful unto death, in order to receive our reward, and that if we have done the will of God we will receive Eternal Life. Revelation 2:10 Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life. Hebrews 10:36 You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. The foundation of the this Doctrine is flawed from the beginning as they falsely define Grace. The True definition of Grace is, Gods' GRACE = God's choice to be crucified, in order to bring His Plan of Salvation (New Covenant)(Acts 2:38) to earth, all while we were still sinners and enemies towards Him. That, is the TRUE definition of God's Grace. Now on the obedience topic: Con says that we should ask Christ if which ones brings us into salvation well, in my first argument i said the scriptures speak of having many things as having a part in our salvation. though the scriptures say that we are saved by all of these things , they do not teach that we are saved by any one of them alone or just rely on them solely. the Bible does not teach that man is saved by any one thing "only." The New Testament relates of people who believed(has Faith) but who were not saved, because they would not obey the Lord. The Rich young ruler (Matt. 19:16-22) The Chief Rulers (John 12:42-43) Pharisees and Lawyers (Luke 7:28-30) Devils(James 2:19) Earlier in my first argument i spoke about "A faithful obedient life", and i quoted several scriptural reference and i did not mistaken to put them there Matt. 10: 22 says "And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. Now the question is if you are not obedient then you will be disobedient, now how will you endure if you are not obedient? Obedient to what, obedient to the faith - Rom. 16:26 The same answer with Rev. 2:10 Now on the Baptism-According to Romans 6:3-10 and Colossians 2:12 we are dead and unified with Jesus through baptism into His death, His burial and His resurrection According to this erroneous teaching, which states: We are saved when we believe and are resurrected at that point and are then baptized as a sign of "what has already taken place," We don't bury live people. On the contrary; We bury dead ones! This teaching, when looked at closely, is NOT what the Word of God teaches about baptism in Romans 6 and Colossians 2:12. This is not a Biblical baptism. Romans 6:9-10 states Christ died ONCE and cannot die again! We are unified with Him in death, buried with Him and also raised with Him through baptism. How does all this take place? By faith. If we are "saved" before we are baptized, then baptism has no meaning and is contradictory to itself. If we deny baptism is when we are reborn, we are denying not only our own resurrection (and rebirth) but also Christ's resurrection. in 1Corinthians 10:1-4, to clarify this point we see an example in the Old Testament as an example for us today: God brought Israel: 1. out of Egypt (the land of slavery--i.e. sin) 2. through the sea (water -i.e. baptism) 3. and into the promised land (Israel—i.e. salvation, redemption) God did NOT bring Israel: 1. out of Egypt (the land of slavery--i.e. sin) 3. into the promised land (Israel--i.e. salvation, redemption) 2. then through the sea (water -i.e. baptism) Baptism is nothing new in God's salvation plan. It is something He has always used to illustrate the separating of sin from mankind. God has always saved people through water. It was foreshadowed long ago in the Old Testament scriptures. Actually in I Pet. 3:21 My opponent helps me explain Now on Con's last statement he says in Ephesians 2:1-3 describes the state of a non-believer prior to Christ's redemptive work. let us clarify further Eph. 2:1-3 implies that "And you He made alive, who were DEAD in TRESPASS AND SINS, as i have said earlier we are DEAD IN OUR SINS, BURIED THROUGH BAPTISM,AND WALK THROUGH NEWNESS OF LIFE. Also my opponent says that i endorse good works as causes salvation, well the answer is NO, in Titus 3:5 says - Not by WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE, But according to His Mercy He saved Us, THROUGH THE WASHING OF REGENERATION AND RENEWING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, we see here that this verse MAKES A CONTRAST between works of righteousness(good works) and baptism. Washing of regeneration..... means baptism see Albert Barnes Notes on the Bible and Adam Clarke's Commentary on the bible