God has predestined before the foundation of the world who would be saved (Calvinistic Soteriology).

Hello my Friend! Thanks for inviting me to this debate. I want to start out by saying (I know you know, but for the non Christian readers) this is a subject that good people differ on. This is one of those times where we have to look at not only related verses but the totality of scripture to see which side seems most likely to be true. Which side has less contradiction, and does our view point limit God. This isn't a situation where one side feels that they are a Christian and the other is not. I believe that many of the difference's between Christians comes from each side limiting God to the limits of their belief system. I feel that denominations create a divide between Christians because of this reason. I hope in this debate we can be aware of this, and open to new ideas if our current ideas limit God. I agree with you that there are verses that are very easy to place into the theology of Calvinism. There is no question that you have reason and good reason to believe what you believe. I don't however believe that Calvinism matches up with the totality of scripture. I think you run into too many contradictions. I also don't feel that Calvinism matches up with the character, love, or intentions of God. This doesn't make me right, but it's enough for me not to choose to follow it. From the very beginning to present day man has had one choice, God or not God. It's as simple as that. All God wants is for us to choose him. The entire Bible is full of God doing things so that man would know that He is the Lord. So that man would have the choice to choose Him and evidence to do so. Choose the God of the Bible over other gods, over religious traditions and man made laws, over the world. Calvinism takes away the choosing factor. The free will aspect that is really important to the totality of the Bible. Also the message that God's love is for everyone, His door is open to everyone, Jesus died on the cross for everyone, all are welcome, God wants all men to be saved, this is taken away by Calvinism. To be a Christian and tell someone that God doesn't want you in Heaven and there is no way that you can be saved isn't the Christian message that I choose to spread. There isn't a person that I would ever look at and say "You are not chosen so you can't be saved" I would say that Jesus's invitation is to everyone, that His hand is extended to everyone and all you have to do is reach for it in faith. God so loved the "World" not God so loved the "elected". This isn't to say that God doesn't already know who will be saved and who won't, I believe just as you do that God does have this knowledge, but that it is based on our age old choice, God or not God. For myself I find less biblical contradictions with Molinism. It's not my view that we have to say "this is the answer and the only way" because I'm just a dude, and a sinner walking around in a fallen world, not God with all the answers. I will say that for me Molinism fit's better with my view of who God is, who Jesus is, unconditional love, the grandness of God's knowledge, and the theme of free will. I think it's a better starting point to understanding the parallel messages of predestination and free will. I think it supports Gods greatness and the greatness of His plan. Molinism allows God to be all knowing, while still being all loving. I don't feel that it takes anything away from God, the ministry of Jesus, or the plan of salvation. Calvinism for me, takes away from all of these things. It can be a super complicated subject, and isn't easy for anyone to wrap their head around. But this is an idea that would allow God to remain sovereign, all knowing, all loving, and man to remain free to choose. Love to remain pure and unconditional. The blood of Jesus to not have been shed in vain. Loss of salvation to be a fair and righteous judgement. As well as preserving the Christian message. God knowing before the foundation of the world that we won't of our free will choose Him, is very different than God choosing that we won't choose him and removing our free will and God's availability to us. Like a father knowing he's going to have 5 children, and deciding before they are born that he is going to offer his fatherhood, his love, his help, his inheritance to all of them, and whichever children choose to receive, will receive it and those who don't, won't. That's very different than the father choosing that he's only going to offer these things to one child and not the rest. In this case God is the father, he knows which children will make which choices, but He still gives them the option to choose, while never withholding the offer of His love. If God is love as the Bible says, and if God is the creator of unconditional love then I would say that the father who offers his love to all would better fit that description. Calvinism is an answer to age old questions, but an answer filled with many contradictions that just don't add up for me. It matches up with the verses that Calvinists use for their arguments but not with the totality of scripture. It's hard for me to think I could tell someone that Jesus died for their sins so that they could be saved, and know in the back of my mind that I don't know for sure if Jesus really died for them because in reality Jesus only died for a few that are the elected. That Jesus died for me but not for my neighbor. I know God is a father who loves all his children whether they choose to live, or choose to die. God teaches us by example how to be fathers, and I believe He teaches that we should choose all of our children, give to those who choose to receive, and leave the door open to those who don't. Can you honestly tell me that their aren't verses and even main messages of the Bible that contradict Calvinism? You can't choose to have faith if it is pre-chosen for you, that's very different then God knowing before hand whether you will choose to have faith. Thanks again!