The Bible does not support the traditional Christian concept of The Devil/Satan.

Also, no need for apologies due to rushing are needed, as I believe my opponent has represented his side of this debate very well. I also will endeavor to finish strong and do justice to the CON side of this debate. ---- Isaiah Quote by PRO: ". .. arguing in circles around the few Bible quotes that can be (with a huge stretch of the imagination) interpreted to back up the conventional depiction of Satan. " -Firstly, there are many more scriptures in the Bible which accurately support the traditional Christian concept of The Devil/Satan. There are, however, just a handful which we have chosen to discuss during this debate. These scriptures are clear in many cases, or AT LEAST IMPLY the standard traditional view of Satan as held by Christian churches, and as that (BEING IMPLIED IN THE BIBLE) is to be the minimum burden required by my opponent (See Rd. 2 - PRO said "However I reiterate that none of these 'facts' or the 'facts' I posted in round 1 are clarified or IMPLIED in the Bible. "), I think that the scriptures in the Bible DO meet and exceed that burden! Additionally, here are examples of other scriptures in the Bible that talk about the traditional concept of Satan/ Devil: 34 references to "Satan" - . http://scriptures.lds.org... 34 references to "devil" - . http://scriptures.lds.org... -Secondly, a huge imagination is not really needed to interpret these things (as PRO suggests). .. An in depth knowledge and familiarity with the scriptures would be needed however! A careful reading of the scriptures would clearly illustrate that there was a being cast out of heaven! And then after that is discovered in the scriptures, it is not too much of a stretch to simply look for other references in the Bible for a "being that was cast out of heaven" and make connections when other references are found. .. ie: Revelation to Genesis to Job to Isaiah etc. .. research is needed, not imagination per se (even in looking for symbolism in the scriptures which would fit. .. it seems more to be research than imagination). Though I am not Catholic (anymore) I still respect the religion and would like to quote a Catholic website with regards to St. Jerome: "The Latin Vulgate was translated By St Jerome " a most learned father, and the best linguist without controversy, of his age, or of any that went before him," AND (regarding his other work) The following are some fine examples of where the translators of the King James Version chose to follow the Catholic Latin Vulgate rather than the Greek texts: (27 examples listed there) including: Matthew 27:35, John 8:9-10, Acts 9:5-6, Acts 10:6, Acts 10:21, etc. ALSO One thing to remember in doing translation work is that the entire CONTEXT must be considered, not simply individual words(like "Helel"). St. Jerome had a reputation as the best linguist of his time to figure things out. . http://www.catholicapologetics.net... ---- My opponent desired a source for my definition of a "Morning star" as a "generic" term. It is not ONLY Venus! "Morning star. (a) Any one of the planets (Venus, Jupiter, Mars, or Saturn) when it precedes the sun in rising, esp. Venus. Cf" . http://dictionary.die.net... ---- Quote by PRO "If Revelations is saying Satan IS the serpent then how can Genesis be saying he possessed it. Con claims to have "provided several scripture references from the Bible that make the strong connection of the serpent being Satan. " This is not true, he has suggested that it is from his actions that we can interpret that it is Satan. His other arguments contradict each other, (see above) as he must either be the serpent or the possessor. " -This apparent contradiction can be resolved quite easily. Let us examine another situation in which Satan possessed Judas and betrayed the Savior. John 13:26 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. 27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly. Now which of these statements would be accurate to say? : 1. Judas betrayed the Savior. 2. Satan betrayed the Savior. 3. Either 1 or 2 . .. The answer is (3. ) When Judas was possessed by Satan it is perfectly fine to refer to that situation as EITHER Satan betrayed the Savior (because he was inside Judas) OR Judas betrayed the Savior (because it was his body which did it). The same thing could be said of Satan possessing the serpent. -Also both points of view are allowed in traditional Christianity, so there is not a need to prove that one or the other is the correct interpretation. Also the serpent's actions are congruent with what Satan would do, now if the serpent had done something out of character or opposite of what the devil would have done, then there could have been a possible argument. ---- Revelation -Revelation 12:7-9 are not addressed by any of my opponent's links (regarding the war in heaven)(it is conspicuously absent from charts) (Rev. 12:14-15 is briefly touched on - but that is an entirely different topic - that is the only reference to Rev. Ch. 12 in his links that I could find). -Satan being bound during the Millennium is confirmed in his first link (under Millennium Theme). -Also his third link contains this statement "We know the above events will occur just as the Bible describes them. What we do not know is precisely WHEN the events will occur in relation to each other. " In summary, the time frame CON has used is perfectly sound. ---- Evil Quotes by PRO "I didn't say the devil was righteous or deny that he did bad things and I think my opponent's own earlier arguments (POWs etc. ) explain how one can be loyal for reasons of fear etc. rather than righteousness. " & "He always does what God tells him" I believe I have shown that the devil does not do what God tells him to do, but rather that he is an enemy to God. My opponent says here again that he doesn't deny that the devil does bad things (like tempting people to sin or harming people), so what PRO must be implying by saying that is that he is under orders from God to do those things (which are evil). BUT as early as Rd. 1 CON has quoted scripture which proves that God does not tempt man. So if it isn't God behind the tempting to do evil who is? Obviously it is the devil's own free will that he is using. .. the thing is that although the devil can choose to tempt and do evil things. .. the devil CANNOT dictate the RESULTS or outcomes that his tempting has! This is the KEY DISTINCTION on this point that CON has tried to illustrate through various analogies and explanations. CON has attempted to show through analogies how that IN SPITE OF what the devil is doing (which is opposite of what God wants), that God still is able to accomplish what He wants to be accomplished because God has so much wisdom and power. PRO seems to think the devil is loyal, but I have endeavored to point out that instead of loyal. .. the devil is manipulated and the bad things the devil does (with his bad intentions of harming humanity) are made so that the efforts of the devil to destroy are ineffectual, if viewed from an eternal perspective. ---- CON has established the 5 specified criteria that were required to be proven, and CON also has rebutted the 5 concepts against the traditional point of view offered by PRO. I have enjoyed this debate and I thank my opponent again and also the readers! RESOLVED: THE BIBLE SUPPORTS THE TRADITIONAL CHRISTIAN CONCEPT OF THE DEVIL/SATAN.