Debate should be considered a recreational activity, rather than educational

1. "On many topics, if both sides knew everything abut the topic then they would agree upon all the relevant facts and many of the conclusions, but that is rarely the case." I would file that statement as in-correct. A debate in which you are referring to, is that of the like of a scientist and a caveman. When debating, and when both sides are informed on the topic at hand, they base their arguments off of why they think their side is right or more moral due to those relevant facts. For example: Say two people have studied abortion together thoroughly, and know all the details of the topic. Both know every fact about abortion in itself, but one might argue that the killing of the fetus is murder, while the other might say that it's the mothers right to choose. Both debaters know everything about the topic, and simply have a mere dis-agreement in opinion of those facts. "One educational value of the debate derives from each side having to justify their reasoning by carefully formulating a case, including finding references for claimed key facts." Yes, but that would be addressing the studying itself, being educational. What one studies beforehand, has a bearing in the debate, however in the debate itself, an individual doesn't actually learn anything at all. Sure they may have made educated upon forming the case, but that comes from their previous study and knowledge of the topic. This is further proof that debate is a mere clash of opinion on morality, and other such values. For some, this would be considered fun. But as far as actually learning something from a debate, one can hardly say after walking out of one that their knowledge on the topic has increased substantially. 2. "From an educational viewpoint, that's comparable to a one-on-one teaching situation. It puts the person on the spot to think carefully and research the subject. That's a more intense learning process than hiding in the back of the classroom as the teacher drones on." Debate: 1. A discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints: a debate in the Senate on farm price supports. 2. A formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated by opposing speakers. http://dictionary.reference.com... You see, there is a vague difference between a student, asking conflicting questions to a teacher as opposed to two fully knowledgeable opponents debating a topic. In the student's scenario, there questions that are brought forth are not for the purpose of debate, but for the purpose of understanding the issue at hand. When someone does not know the full detail on a topic, they are merely getting firsthand information about the topic at hand. People are generally ignorant. To justify this claim I would like to ask my opponent some questions. When you accepted this debate, did you intend to learn anything? Do you feel there is anything on this topic, that you don't already know? Would you yourself, enter into a debate that you felt you only were half read-up on? Is it true, that no matter what argument I bring up, you will try to your best ability make an counter-argument? Debate is recreational. To justify this claim, I will ask my opponent some more questions. Did you personally accept this debate for the sole purpose of getting educated? Do you think debate is fun? If so, what about debate do you find so fun? Ignorance does not define the quality of the person, or their debating skills in anyway. People have strong feelings towards what they believe, and will do anything to stand by those beliefs. 3. A1. "However, it's quite clear that most teenagers are not on this site, so whatever is going on here is an exception to broad generalities about teenagers. Not many teenagers read philosophy or program computers in their spare time either, but some do and those ones who do are engaging in educational activities." It is true, that some teenagers find doing activities such as 'fixing a computer'. But that is the activity itself, that they believe is fun. The actual hands-on aspect of them knowing they are building something. Fun is relevant to the person themselves. And even more, some even think that learning IS fun. A2. "It's true that those who spend a lot of time on this site probably enjoy it, but that just means they are enjoying an educational activity. " Like you said, they are enjoying the use of it. Whether they are getting educated or not is irrelevant now, due to the fact that they are actually having fun, thus recreational. "Some people enjoy school, and many more enjoy certain classes in school." As far as enjoying school, I can personally attest to the fact that it's the social aspect of school that the teenager enjoys. But again, enjoying a certain class, is still enjoying, meaning recreational! "That doesn't mean that school as a whole or particular classes are primarily recreational. It means that activities that are educational may also be enjoyable." Referring back to the definition I have provided regarding recreational, would you not say that fits the definition perfectly? A3. "What makes debate an educational activity is the high educational content" But the point is, that in studying the topic of debate, you are becoming knowledgeable, which leads to the educational content of the person, rather than the debate itself. The debate is merely an argument of opinions already made on the facts that have been established. "Pros first argument was that participants knew everything about the debate subject, and his second argument was that participants knew nothing about the subject." Actually this statement would be false. My first argument was that the debater knows everything about their topic already, and the second was saying that they will stand by them with any argument they can think of, because ignorance leads to defensiveness, and a heated debate. "Many debates have more than two voters judging the debate, so educational value may be greater for the audience than the participants" Except for in a judge's position, they are merely looking at the speaking skills of a debater, and seeing if they are knowledgeable on the subject. N1. School debate, and debate.org, I would not classify as much of a difference. I have already refuted this argument several times above, but I will say that yes, I would agree with your sources resolution that debate has increased intellectual activity decently. This is true, and one of the many subjects that people can really enjoy. However all the increased knowledge comes from before hand research of a topic. On the actual debate itself, all anyone is doing is arguing there opinion on the facts. N2. I can basically just say the exact same to this argument. Indeed, debate is helpful and used all around the world. Its is such a popular activity, because not only does it help one increase their ideas educationally, due to their study of the said subject, it also spikes the interest of the many people who take debate. ========== Recreation means that some one has found something that they find leisurely, and enjoyable, or in general just a pastime. So in answer to your question "If participants think something is fun, does that mean it is primarily recreational?" Debate is fun! Can someone honestly tell me that they would be involved in debate if it weren't? Especially extra-curricular debate sites such as the ones this site presents! And " If someone thinks learning to solve simultaneous partial differential equations is fun, does that mean we should consider the activity recreational?" Well sure! If someone prefers to study amoebas all day, or solve math equations, because it spikes there interest, then all the power to them. While it is educational, they are also experiencing recreation! Good luck to my opponent. thanks -philosophical