The Christian God exists (3)

The cake analogy is flawed because when we see a cake, we know exactly how a cake could come about through someone creating it, and this is always how cakes come about. -My point was with this analogy is that we know that cakes don"t just appear out of nowhere. They are created. They don"t magically appear. I"m relating this to the universe. So bear with me, cake=universe. However, when it comes to universes, we don't know how they are created or if they were even created. We don't even know how many there are. -Why would the universe be any different? Everything else in this entire planet was created"so why wouldn"t the universe? Humans are created beings by a creator. Also, I again ask: if the universe is evidence of a designer, wouldn't god be evidence of a designer and so on until we have infinite gods creating other gods? -I don"t really get the point you are trying to make here. God made everything"never any "mini gods" Basically, you say that the universe couldn't just have appeared, yet God could have. -For something to be created it has to have an author, an artist, a designer. Something had to have started it all. I don"t want to get too technical so I am not going to rant but"because is the author of all, and the Creator of all"He also created time. (hours"years") So before everything was around"there was no time. So God never appeared"He just has always been around. Something has got to be around for everything to start. Why couldn't the universe have always been around? What do you even mean?? Always is forever. That means that the universe has always"(which my head can"t rap around) has been here. Things don"t last forever"the universe would be looong dead. The big bang theory does not say the big bang came out of nothing. -I would like to say that I have brought this point up and you have yet to define Big Bang" Here: explosion that started universe: the explosion of a single extremely dense mass of matter that started the universe according to a popular theory big bang theory -The reason why I defined it (since you didn"t) is the fact that there was an explosion of MATTER. If the big bang were true"where did this matter come from? Someone would have had to put it there. In other words, God would have to create it. ME:"I don't exactly understand what you meant about the universe always there...First off...even if that was possible, our world would have been dead LONG AGO." YOU: How? The world seems to be working pretty fine, and it's been around for a good 4.5 billion years. -The World is definitely doing fine"but I don"t believe it is 4.5 billion years old. Do you have anything supporting this? I base a lot of my life around the Bible, (I"m assuming you don"t) and after doing the math after Creation in the Genesis, the Earth has only been around for about 6-7 thousand years. -The Bible also has never been proven wrong. Everything in it is historically correct. There was this one woman who tried to prove the Bible her whole life and never could. She actually ended up becoming a Christian and gave talks about her lifestory. My mom actually went to one of her conferences. That"s besides the point. We can observe around us (and in the Bible) that the earth isn"t billions of years old, because God created it about 7 thousand years ago. Yes, they are theories. Just like the theories of gravity and heliocentrism. Theories have a lot of evidence to back them up, they're not just guesses. -The theory of gravity. Really? That is a proven FACT. Throw a ball in the air and see what happens"it falls. - Heliocentrism, or heliocentricism, is the astronomical model in which the Earth and planets revolve around a relatively stationary Sun at the center of the Solar System. This is a proven fact. We know the planet order and the exact distance in miles and light years where they are located. Satellites are a lovely little tool. Exactly, we have to trust in our reality to function, but who's to say this isn't the matrix? We can't be sure, but we make the assumption because it would be dumb not to. -I"m not gonna argue this" You're on the right track, but that's still not what the big bang theory says. Why did there have to be someone to start the big bang? -I already defined the big bang. Someone has to put that matter there. Stuff (matter) doesn"t just appear. Just like my cake analogy. It doesn"t just appear. Why should this one particular thing be different than everything thing else that exists? Why can't that be the uncaused cause? -The world is so incredibly complex! There had to be a cause! The cause was from God. Look at this: Look at the world. It's too complex to comprehend. Look at humans. Do you know how complex the human body is? Are we saying that dirt and mud and rocks created this complex earth. Really? An explosion created water, air, trees, fire? What about humans? What created blood, tissue, urine, the ability to combine DNA to make babies, skin cells, neurons, the brain? An explosion created ALL of these things we still can't understand and still research? An explosion? Something greater [God] than we can fathom created the world and everything that inhabit it. (http://www.qfak.com...) Which is more reasonable as an uncaused cause: the universe, which we can observe and is obviously here, or an extremely problematic god? -The universe we observe and obviously is here, which I believe God gave to us to see His glory and artwork. Back to the cake example, we know that these things are designed by people, but we don't know that the universe was designed by anyone. Humans are not too complex to come about in 14 billion years; nothing is. -Back to what I have said over and over. We know and observe that things must be created"so why should the universe be anything different? The world is too beautiful and COMPLEX to be from some random explosion. -You also haven"t supplied any evidence showing that the Big Bang is even possible. (there isn"t really any) Almost everything that could be of possibility has been shot down because it is too unrealistic (by scientists) The textbooks don"t tell you that though. That's a poor example. Humans came about through natural selection, which is not a random process, and the Earth etc. came about through cosmic evolution, also not an entirely random process. -Natural selection is a fraud. There is no "link" that has been found to even support this. - Read this: Today"s Darwinists point to mutations as the mechanism which provides this novelty from which "Natural Selection" selects. Evolutionists should then focus on mutations to defend their theory, instead of "Natural Selection". When pressed for examples of novel genetic information or body organs created by mutation, they typically point to instances such as wingless beetles4 on islands, or the flightless cormorant on the Galapagos islands.5 The problem with these examples is obvious. While they may confer a benefit to the creatures in a specific, very unusual environment, nothing "new" is added to the DNA or creatures" body parts. They actually involve a loss or corruption of existing genetic information.6 Evolution desperately needs "Natural Invention", "Natural Novelty" and "Natural Creation". "Natural Selection" just does not pass muster as exhibit A for evolution. Rather, it is a wonderful tribute to God"s design, and His providence for a fallen world. Natural Selection X00; Evolution. (http://creation.com...) I'd like to note that Pro has not even argued for the existence of the Christian god, just a higher power of some sort. -That isn"t true. I"ve been saying a "higher being" and "God" because in the Bible"we do indeed call him God. We don"t pray "Oh, Christian God"" we say God. Thanks for the debate. -No problem! I"m enjoying this. :)