Israeli School Trips to Auschwitz Should be Banned

**Closing Argument** Firstly I need to remind Con that I am not referring to 'Jews', but Israeli's, or more specifically--student groups from Israel. The Jewish identity is and should be different to that of the Israeli identity. I am Jewish for example, but I am not from Israel. The Jewish identity, as I see it, is an identity that encompasses many different countries and should rather revolve around the religion itself rather than *politics* or one specific national identity. I personally see no issue with having other Jewish elements at Auschwitz (lighting candles, holding prayer, etc.) This is what it would mean to truly pay respect to the Jews killed there--a national flag does not, especially as the people held and killed at Auschwitz were not from Israel; what value or meaning does it really hold for them? I am referring to Jews who had a Polish national identity, a Ukrainian national identity, Russian national identity, a Hungarian national identity...Jews who had lived in Europe for centuries; the Jewish men who had actually fought for Germany in the First World War--the Israeli flag, it holds invariably no intrinsic value to them. I'd also point out how emigration to Israel was a 'last resort' for some, quite a few tried to re-settle but found that they had obviously lost everything (family, friends, possessions/money). And a lot of Russian Jews did not emigrate until later, due to not being able to openly practice Judaism under Soviet rule. It remains that while Jews largely dominate Israel's population, Israel is not representative of Jewish people as a whole. (8.) https://en.m.wikipedia.org... The claim that (they) 'are angry and suffering Jews' just does not work, they are not angry and suffering. They are people that have a relatively nice life in Israel, and most of the ones that go come from wealthier backgrounds anyway as they have to pay the minimum $1000 (sometimes it's 1600) to actually make the trip. Many of their ancestors suffered, but they, themselves, are not suffering and have no legitimate personal reason to be angry. Which refers to the point I had regarding 'entitlement' when Israeli student groups visit Auschwitz, which leads to them disregarding other visitors; again I can't link anything specific as there's literally no additional sources, but I've heard various accounts of pushing, shoving and the like from Israeli students from people who've also been at Auschwitz at the time. And once more, regardless of the souls who perished there, how exactly do they feel about the Israeli flag being wavered about? Though I have relatives and friends who've visited Auschwitz, I have never gone myself but if I did and saw Israeli flags there I would be displeased. Onto some more of Cons points: He more or less admits that Israeli students would fare better learning about the current scenario: which is an ongoing and intrinsically harmful conflict with the Palestinians--one that Con is right in saying actually began before WW2, but certainly escalated some time after and with each war, the most recent one being only three years ago--a war which involved many casualties and fatalities, and with pretty high levels of propaganda...that's just so easy to believe. Auschwitz is basically a preserved site of suffering, not a platform for you to go around waving flags and flaunting your politics, the same should naturally be expected from non-Israeli's. In going on these trips to Auschwitz, Israeli teenagers are essentially buying into the idea that there is a 'common enemy' and a legitimate reason to be so preoccupied with the military and defending oneself. These days it is of course not Nazi Germany, it is Palestine and other Arab/Muslim states that they are made to believe they're fighting against. It cements the realisation that Jewish people have suffered...and will never suffer again, no matter what measures or what lengths one has to go to, to reach that. So things such as military combat, settlements on disputable land, lesser rights for Palestinians...they become justified. I'm also aware as to how long Zionism has existed, it has two separate forms: religious and political, but since the start of the last century the two become intertwined and Zionism as it practiced now--is a very negative thing. Con references how the Soviet flag being displayed at Auschwitz would indeed be offensive, on the basis of it being representative of a 'dictatorship'...but I would again argue that the Israeli flag and its political connotations, is extremely offensive for some; non-Jews and Jews alike. They library comparison is also not really varied, as we are talking about what was formally a death camp, and a controversial nation state. Con continues to agree with key parts of my argument (Zionist culture, etc.) but asserts that because of this culture, imposing a ban may very well be unrealistic--he has a point here, but it isn't exactly my argument; which is that there's *enough* objective reasons for such a ban to be in place. It's possible that with the more politically neutral principles that do it, it may become more of an acceptable thing; and there's at least enough parents who either just cannot afford it or see it as wasteful to spend that kind of money on one short trip. As for Israel's 15% Arab population and Arab teenagers being denied the right to see Auschwitz, Israeli (nationalistic) propaganda is also an issue for them--as they undertake mandatory conscription as well. But the possibility of a non-Israeli Jewish family paying that kind of cost is perhaps unlikely, to my knowledge, I have never heard of a Christian Arab or Muslim Arab family in Israel going on one of these trips. Concerning the cost, $400 is under half that of the minimum that each student is charged--$1000, which does indeed mean that parents are purposely being shortchanged and that these trips are a marketable area for travel companies in Israel. This strongly undermines the 'education' argument as I have previously noted, and I do not see how charging parents more than you should be (for a trip of this gravity) is justified. Anyway, I will leave my argument here. I thank you Con again for accepting this debate and doing his research! It was well-written and carefully considered.