cause+effect=logic(cause and effect is logic)

"im not saying it would make sense, im saying its reasonable, and logic determines reason, reason the the concept of logic, cause and effect" If something does not make sense it is by nature not reasonable. "is it unreasonable to jump off a cliff if I want to die, compared to eating vegetables?" Depends on the parameters. You have better chance of living falling off of a 12' cliff than if you eat yew (http://www.countrylovers.co.uk...). In order for your scenario to work I have to accept your implicit parameters; what you mean is "Is it unreasonable to jump off of a [100'] cliff if I want to die, compared to eating [healthy and gainful] vegetables?", and those brackets are indicating your implicits. The entirety of your understanding is weakened just by the fact that you can only theoretically enforce your own thoughts and patterns but you circumvent your own arguments by also failing to have the language required to actualize your own thoughts and patterns sufficiently. "well im not adding bungijumping you are, im talking about reality as it is.. where you can jump of a cliff and no bungee is necessarily attached to you, therefore its not implied in my example", but bungee jumping is real. You're not talking about reality as it is, you are talking about reality as you need to it to be to work within your framework, which is enjoyable and normal but also proves that logic is theoretical and you cannot produce a constant using it in actuality. "you are twisting it m8", but of course. That is what Logic is for. Logic is nothing more than twisted observations conundrums and implicit and explicit combinations to create statements that allow for both communication and sound decision making. Twisting logic is nothing new, it's nothing rare, and it's nothing that effects reality at all; the truth is that whether it be the idea that flies simply spawn from meat and phlogerston causes fire or whether it be ebola being incurable and virii being 'dead but alive too' none of this effected by how you logically discern the world and while ideas may come and go the nature of the world need not change. "Cause and Effect" is merely a tool, it is an expression relating to an expected outcome given specific parameters, for instance your leaping off a cliff leading to death expresses that the cliff is high enough, you are unprotected and not resilient enough to survive the fall, no freak miracles keep you from death, and that death is actually even possible and you're not immortal. There are so many hidden parameters within parameters for logical statements that we don't even think of them. And this is why you are wrong; the very nature of Logic twists and turns far too much for you to be right about anything relative to the concrete nature of "what is". "it is only true, when it is true, only now is true, anywhere beyond now is imaginary, false.", ah yes, X|X and the rules of the contemporary temporal value. Well, that's not true. It's not only untrue but it's actually ridiculously untrue. Let's say that you are reading this now, which you are, and if you are let's say that in two seconds after this period at the end of this sentence we see if you still exist. ... ... Congratulations! You exist. But was there ever any real doubt? Did I have to truly imagine you existing beyond that period? No. You won't cease to exist just because you can conceptualize not existing and thus again your logic proves false; the fact that you state you cannot forecast anything undermines the value of meteorology which does so with high accuracy modeling off of the patterns of the world. "so you can jump of a cliff and imagine flying away and everything will be fine, you will not continue falling and splat?(if you are on earth and everything is as it is.........lul)", yes: http://www.wingsuitfly.com..., it's called a Wingsuit. I know, another parameter you did not think of. "if no one can get poisoned, no poison exist, the effect of the poison is the cause of the poison", no, it's not. Not at all. We can note this because some substances are more toxic to specific populations than others even within the same species and genus. Poison is actually not a "property" but a classification of an interaction. Basically what makes poison what it is happens to be how it chemically reacts to the body of recipient not based on it's physical substance itself. This is why tolerances, resistances, and various other things need to be taken into account; a common poison for instance is alcohol, it is very much so poisonous, and yet humans don't die and drink it for fun? Are they dumb? Or is there more to chemistry than you allow? The answer is out there. "wauw, your saying cause and effect dosnt apply to your ice cube example, but that is only true if you imagine it, as there is no logic in fantasy", cause and effect doesn't apply to the ice cube example. There is no cause. There is no effect. There is only an observation. Ice cubes don't float in water because of the water and the water displacing isn't a side-effect of the ice cube. There are some things that do arise from processes and there are some things that just happen to be as they are. For instance there is no process required for you to exist as you are per se. There is a process for the conception but the rest is actually irrespective of it; your gestational period disconnects from the conception, your birth disconnects from the gestational period, and your current self disconnects from your birth; while these are sequenced they are not actually linked intrinsically. This can be a bit complex at first so the simplest example is turning the page of a book. Though you turn the page of the book the words do not appear magically because you did. They were always there. You are not the cause of the words, though you are the cause of the page being turned, thus you are not the cause of the content, though you can only perceive the content if you turn the page, and in turn this means that the two elements, the previous page and the new page and their continuity, are not intrinsically linked by you despite your being required to turn the page. It's fun stuff this "Logic".