Debate should be considered a recreational activity, rather than educational

I accept Pro's definitions of "recreational" and "educational." Pro offers three arguments in favor of the resolution: 1. Pro contends that there is no educational value because "Any one arguing against some one else, usually knows everything about the topic they are arguing about before hand." On many topics, if both sides knew everything abut the topic then they would agree upon all the relevant facts and many of the conclusions, but that is rarely the case. What the two sides typically start with is a belief about the topic. The debate provides the forum for deriving the belief by reasoning from relevant facts. One educational value of the debate derives from each side having to justify their reasoning by carefully formulating a case, including finding references for claimed key facts. 2. Pro claims, "People are generally ignorant." That assertion contradicts Pro's first contention, that nothing will e learned from the debate because the participants already know everything. The truth is that people know some things and don't know other things. The debate helps sort out what each side really knows from what they believe without good reasons. The opponent focuses intently upon exposing unjustified claims and erroneous logic. From an educational viewpoint, that's comparable to a one-on-one teaching situation. It puts the person on the spot to think carefully and research the subject. That's a more intense learning process than hiding in the back of the classroom as the teacher drones on. Being put on the spot is motivational, and motivation is the key element in education. 3. Pro references this site, debate.org for several points. A1. Pro claims, "It is a very rare occasion, when one can find a teenager doing something educational on their own time." If that is true, then it does not prove that debate fails to educate, it proves that debate is wonderfully educational because it is motivating teenagers to learn when it is not their habit to do so. However, it's quite clear that most teenagers are not on this site, so whatever is going on here is an exception to broad generalities about teenagers. Not many teenagers read philosophy or program computers in their spare time either, but some do and those ones who do are engaging in educational activities. Like debate, if most teenagers do not participate in those activities, it doesn't diminish the ones who do. A2. Pro claims, "Most of the people on this site, spend ALOT of time on this site. Obviously these people must think that debate is fun in some sort, or else they would not spend so much time on it." Most members of the site are casual users, with only a relative handful spending a lot of time. It's true that those who spend a lot o time probably enjoy it, but that just means they are enjoying an educational activity. Some people enjoy school, and any more enjoy certain classes in school. That doesn't mean that school as a whole or particular classes are primarily recreational. It means that activities that are educational may also be enjoyable. A3. Pro admits, "some people think that learning CAN be fun, thus entertainment." The measure is how much knowledge is gained for the time spent participating. For example, if one's hobby is playing ping pong, the activity is fun and healthy exercise, but very few consider it an educational activity. What makes debate an educational activity is the high educational content. Pro's first argument was that participants knew everything about the debate subject, and his second argument was that participants knew nothing about the subject. The spectators are in the camp of being interested enough to read or listen to the debate, but not having any necessary level of knowledge in the subject. Many debates have more than two voters judging the debate, so educational value may be greater for the audience than the participants. N1. Educators consider debate to be educational. Hundreds of times more people participate in academic debate than in this site. If there is any doubt that debate.org is educational, there ought to be no doubt that academic debate programs are educational. For example, the Los Angeles Times reports, concerning high school debate. ". . . Like the topics they argue, debate itself takes research and strategy. Students receive nearly 600 pages of high-level research organized into specific topics that they craft into an argument... Students who participate show improved academic achievement, according to the national urban debate league. ... Literacy scores among debaters have increased by an average of 25%. High school graduation rates among regular participants are nearly 100%, and more than 75% of urban debaters attend four-year colleges." http://articles.latimes.com... On the college level, there are 115 schools having College Policy Debate Programs http://www.wcdebate.com... Another organization, "The American Parliamentary Debate Association (APDA) includes over 50 member schools..." http://www.apdaweb.org... These debate organizations include the nations top schools. Top academic institutions recognize the educational value of debate by their sponsorship. The are many other debate organizations worldwide, "Competitive Debate is an organized activity with teams competing at the local, national, and international level. It is popular in English-speaking universities and high schools around the world, most notably in South Africa, Canada, the United States, the United Kingdom, Ireland, Australia, and New Zealand. Many different styles of debate occur under a variety of organizations and rules." http://en.wikipedia.org... N2. In addition to the research n preparing to debate and the information gleaned from watching a debate, debaters learn skills of analysis, such as the identification of logical fallacies and the development of step-by-step arguments. Such skills are important, and most people will learn them from debate if they earn them at all. That makes debate an important educational activity. ============ If participants think something is fun, does that mean it is primarily recreational? If someone thinks learning to solve simultaneous partial differential equations is fun, does that mean we should consider the activity recreational? No, activities, including debate, ought to be judged and considered educational based upon what they teach. If participants learn substantially for it, then it ought to be considered educational. Debate teaches facts, logic, and why others believe what they do. That makes it educational.