God Is Unnecessary As A Basis For Morality And Justice

1 Corinthians 10: 23, 24 says something similar and a bit more pointedly. It adds that we should do what is good for others and not ourselves. Morality from God takes into consideration the well being of others not for self interest but for the interest of peace in general. Romans 12:18 says that as far as it depends upon us, be peaceable with others. The other scriptures in the chapter also tell how a Christian should conduct himself in order to maintain peace. If you're alone on an Island I suppose you wouldn't have to worry about being a disruption in a library either. An interesting facet to Morality based on God is that those who are governed by godly principles are always conscious of disappointing their god. For example, many people violate speed limits set by local law. It isn't until they see a traffic camera or a police officer that they become concerned with violating the law. This can be said about most crimes that take place. The reach of secular morality is limited to the reach of the government, or societies power and ability to enforce law. Those subjected to Godly principles of morality are constantly concerned with disappointing their God. Now this isn't out of dread but more like how a young child doesn't want to disappoint their parents and lose favor with them. People adhere to Godly principles of morality because they love God and they love their brothers and sisters of faith as well as their neighbors, (which means everyone as illustrated by Jesus parable of the good Samaritan) There is little to no love in secular morality especially if it is guided by "self interest" as you say it is. To me and many others, morality without love is cold, dead and easily cast off when people aren't forced to adhere to it. "it is true that people want moral laws that are convenient for them. But what is convenient for them is inconvenient for others and do you think people would let their convenience taken away?" Yes people, especially men, let their convenience get taken away everytime they get married. People in relationships stop doing things that are convineient, natural, or comfortable to them because it may annoy or make their loved one upset, or uncomfortable. You could say it's out of self interest, but me and a lot of others would say it's because of love. Love is not unneccesary on the contrary it is very neccessary. Godly morality is based on love. A sense of morality is neccessary to function in society and it is reasonable to conclude that the the princiiples of morality based on love would be the superior and more neccessary. "The bible does not protect the people from all of the immorality like you claimed. In the past the bible was used to justify slavery." The Bible itself does not justify slavery. It did however impose laws to protect the lives of slaves until slavery could be phased out completely. To explain, under the Mosaic Law Jews were not allowed to completely own their brother or sister of faith. While they could enter into servitude to one another under they were to be freed from their debt of servitude during the jubille year. Even foreign slaves were to be respected and protected. If one were to beat a slave and incur serious damage to their eye they were to be compensated heavily. And should the slave be killed then the owner would have to pay with their own life. There were strict laws regarding slavery and it was not like what we think of slavery nowadays in recent history. While Joseph was a slave in Egypt he aquired a great deal of power, influence, and wealth eventually becoming second only to Pharaoh. But as Christianity came along and brotherhood in faith was extended to everyone, no Christian could realistically keep anyone as a slave especially in the event that a slave become a Christian it would then behoove the owner to set their brother free should the slave desire it. But it wasn't uncommon for slaves to remain in service to their "owners" by choice due to the living conditions being favorable to slaves continued well being. It could be likened to Alfred and Bruce Wayne. Your criticism of slavery in the Bible lacks understanding of historical and biblical context and therefore does not hold up. "how do you explain stuff in the past that becomes wrong?" Some things were always wrong. It just took time for people to be taught. Galatians chapter 3 explains the purpose of the Mosaic law to tutor the Jews and help them understand what was right and wrong and protect them. Matthew 19:8 also sheds light on the consistent wrongfulness of certain practices, but how God made provision to regulate certain preactices, in this case divorce, out of regard for the cold hearts and stubbornness of people. Divorce has always been a bad thing in God's eyes, but he stipulated particular grounds for divorce due to the nature of people. Now if you want to talk about the justification of the Jews killing and displacing groups of people, but how Christians are later told that they should pursue peace and that vengence belongs to God I'd be happy to discuss it in length another time. But the short answer is that the Kingdom of Israel was once the physical representation of God'd kingdom and were instrumental in executing God's judgement on those people at that time. You see Abraham was told that he would have to wait for his decendants to take possesion of the land once the badness of the current inhabitants reached a certain point. And at the time the Jews came in fighting those people practiced male, female, homosexual protsitution in their relgious temples as well as child sacrifice. Their cities were full of rampant debauchery, thievery, and murder. They had become so bad they were a pollutant to the land and were thus displaced by the Jews. But the Jewish nation was eventually rejected after they killed the messiah and a superior Kingdom was established in Heaven. And Chiristians constantly pray and wait for that Kingdom to come and exercise it's will upon the Earth. That's it in a nutshell. I have pointed out the everchanging tides and currents of secular morality and how it is often found wanting; leading to the pain and suffering of many people. This fact you have not really argued and instead you hold that this trial and error approach to morality which has failed so often is part of some kind of refining process. But to what standard is this product of trial and error constantly held against? What tool is used to check and calibrate secular morality? Whether you like it or not it is God's principles of morality that sets the bar in which to measure secular morality. That's partly why I mentioned the religous history of mankind. Mankind will constantly look back to history to gauge what kind of changes it has made and determine how good or bad those changes were. God will never become unnesseccary for establishing principles of Morality and Justice. What you have admitted about secular morality, how it is constantly evolving to the whims of troubled societies, and how I have pointed out the disastrous results of those often misguided changes only proves the truth of these scriptures. Proverbs 14:12 - There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death. Proverbs 21:2 - Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the Lord examines the heart Secular Morality is wanting and limited in its ability to affect people. God is necessary as a basis for morality and justice.