Vainglory Topic: Is Lyra OP

To satisfy Con's curiosity, I stopped playing ranked after they separated casual play from ranked play. Before that, my rank was rank 6 (I forgot the name of the rank). My IGN is 252525jj. Now to business... Rebuttals of Con's arguments: Items: 1. the problem about using a crucible/reflex block is that it can only block the pulse. After that one time use, the walls stays. If you use a crucible inside the bulwark, Lyra can walk out of the bulwark. If the enemies continue to give chase, they will be snared by the wall. Also, most players don't have the reflexes to block an near instantaneous ability. 2. Most stuns are either skillshots or movement based. If it is a skillshot, Lyra can either dodge by walking (most stuns are very slow, eg. Celeste's core collapse) or teleporting away. If the stun is movement based, she can bulwark, or teleport. Also, if you stun a support Lyra, what are you going to do about the other two carries. Fight a support Lyra is a dilemma, should I focus her and do nothing against that CP Vox with his ultimate? Or ignore her, and get all of our abilities removed. There are only two silences in the game, so banning and priority picking can solve the problem. If in casual play , Lyra can either dodge via ultimate, or use a crucible. The only silence that lasts long is Catherine's, which is easy to anticipate and avoid. 3. Are you talking about Cp Lyra or support Lyra? If CP Lyra, she can just use her A to do around 200 damage, which is still a lot. CP Lyra can also prevent you from applying the atlas her via bulwark and/or ult..If you are are going against a support, it is highly advisable to use it instead on the carries, as they will mow you down when you apply the effect on her. 4. I admit burst damage is one the biggest issues for a Lyra. However, the problem about burst comps is that their effectiveness drops significantly in the late game. At late game, Tension bow does nothing even against a Lyra. Also the abilities you mentioned in your example can be stopped by her bulwark. Lance's A is easily dodgeable. Heroes: 1. I was expecting a crystal adagio example which much more effective in the current meta. His heal going weapon power does nothing. Also, CP Lyra can still poke him with her imperial sigil. Remember CP Lyra isn't just the basic attack, her practically spammable sigil also does a lot of damage. Even in BR, I still don't think that Wp adagio is good because he has no movement ability, hence no escape from constant ganks and Lyra's slow. 2. If they started the ability at the same time, yes she can't block X-retsu. However, there is a simple solution, after the x-retsu, bulwark and ult out. Now, you got a trapped or snared taka in the bulwark with only one way to escape! If he uses your portal, you should be gone already. Also, her imperial sigil prevents enemy takas from approaching her. In one of my sources, the writer specifically uses the sigil as a ward against heroes, as it provides vision and most players don't want to walk over that time bomb. Another trick Lyra players use is to portal into the team fight, bulwark, then teleport out. Since she started her bulwark first, taka can't use X-restu. In a 1v1, taka will melt lyra. However, Lyra has a few advantages. One, Taka is squishier. Two, Taka's invisibility is useless against her. Three, in a team fight, takas don't last long as they are generally weak in the late game. 3. Catherine is only effective at close range. If she tries to use her only source of damage (her stun), she will be stopped by the bulwark. Her B is only good against burst damage, which is different from Lyra's basic attack. Have you ever wondered why you can't stop petal from melting you even if you have that shield on? Catherine's shield only reflect high amounts of damage at once. The ability Lyra has that allows Catherine's shield to be effective is her sigil, which should not be used in close range. 4. Lance's A ROOTS heroes. The key difference is that when you are stunned, you can't do anything except activate items. When you are rooted, you can still fight back. Besides, it is still stopped by her bulwark and is fairly easy to dodge and punish. Lance's B can block her bulwark but keeps him in place for a second. The shield only protects him, not his teammates, so he either has to wait for teammates, or dive in and get himself killed. You also mention Wp lance to be the threat, but then you mention that he is played as support. So what is your argument? 5. Celeste's can't keep Lyra away from her farm because Lyra's can do a strategy called hugging the turret. Since she has the highest range, she can wait for the minion wave to come close to the turret. then, she "hugs" the turret, farming safely. If Lyra's get's harassed by celeste, she can heal herself can be ready for another fight in no time. Celeste does not provide vision for scout traps , so most teams buy flares anyways. 6. Reim is good only against melee heroes. He is actually considered a weak laner due to his low mobility. In broken myth's tier list, he is put in 8th place, just one place ahead of the notoriously bad "throwzo". Reim's A is easy to dodge because of its speed and telegraphed position. It is impossible for Reim to reach Lyra, as Lyra can dodge his A easily while kiting with her initial basic attacks. 7. The only thing SAW has against Lyra is his B. His A is stopped by the bulwark, and his C has his basic attack range which is smaller than her basic attack range. If he hits her with the B, she can heal up, and is ready for the next fight. 8. The silence is not a problem, because it only lasts for a small amount of time. His ults damage can be mitigated by crucible or healing. 9. CP kestrel's 4 attacks are not enough against a healing Lyra. After her 4 attacks, she can't do anything.To counter the B, you can buy flares, or just not give chase and let the mist clear. 10. If Lyra's is pulled, she can teleport out while kiting with her missiles. Her range keeps Phinn at a distance, preventing him from using his stun effectively. In conclusion, Lyra is OP because of her small amount of counters. Most of the counter's that Con mentioned can be easily mitigated, or even completely canceled because of her bulwark, her escape, and her healing. Trust me, if she has a 100% win rate in a competitive scene and people saying that it is impossible for SEMC to not nerf her in 1.20, she is definitely a broken champion. (The source is a video where even though the player is playing support Lance, there is a moment in the video where they say Lyra should be nerfed in the upcoming update.) I wish Con good luck on his rebuttals, and if he wants to, can add me as a friend on vainglory. Sources: http://brokenmyth.net... http://brokenmyth.net... http://www.vaingloryfire.com...