Oneness Pentecostalism

Philo defined the term "Word" as God's image. This resource could have been substantial for this debate if you would have gave a link to back up you claims. 20-40 years before John wrote his gospel? John wrote his gospel some 60 years after Christ. Could Philo had a reason to try and deny that Jesus was not the Son of God and possibly been a bit bias in his writings?????? Genesis 15:1-4 KJV Genesis 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward. Hebrew definition of Word; d) business, occupation, acts, matter, case, something, manner (by extension) What is your point? And, you get hung up in semantics (not to be unkind) and miss the whole point. http://www.blueletterbible.org... My point is words can be switched when copying from a book or web site to this debate, not intentionally but still it can happen. The text says dwelleth and you wrote dwellt on your web site. And because there is a web site that has the Bible for us to read we can look and see for ourselves. You have not posted any web sites that we can verify what Philo or the Targums have in them. So we can not trust your references without proof. And, this is NOT like me using a computer; it is like me using my mind to write these words in a computer. You said it yourself. You are using your mind. Your conscious individual mind. What if someone used my mind to write these pages? If God was using Himself to write those words as you claim, then this "image" had a will BEFORE the incarnation. Remember, God's Spirit moved upon Mary. It is in this way that the Son was sent. Mary conceived Jesus. Jesus was born of a woman. If God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit (according to your theory) are omniscient (know all things) and timeless (see the end from the beginning) how can one of them be "sent" from heaven, where they exist in an immutable, unchanging state of being? Are you saying God can not do this? Is this impossible for God? Jesus gave up His equality and was made a man. If God the Son is omniscient, and timeless, and cannot change (Malachi 2:10) how could he be sent from heaven? He gave up His equality with God and became like us. Change? Does this ABSOLUTLY mean a state of being? Or can it also mean will or quality? It can mean who Jesus is, He did not become a different person, He gave up His equality for US. This is why Trinity makes Jesus' sacrifice EVEN GREATER. Would he not know that he was going before He was even asked to go? Of course He knew. Does Scriptures ever say Jesus was surprised by this mission given to Him by the Father? No. His Passion was known before hand. How does this matter? He gave up His place in Heaven for that time, to become human to save our souls. Again, a much greater sacrifice then an image or form dying for our sins. Likewise, how can the Holy Spirit be a separate person of God who is omniscient and timeless, if He is sent from heaven? The Holy Spirit has been dealing with men since the beginning; craftsmen were filled with the Holy Spirit when they built the Ark. What image was "God the Son" (your theory) in before the incarnation? Please explain this. He was is and will always be God. He was never an "image"; WE are made in the image of God. WE are the "image". And, this "form" or "image" could not grasp equality with God, because He is God in the lesser form of a glorified man. Again you say COULD NOT GRASP. But the text says did not think (again, will) it was robbery. "Could not grasp" completely changes the verse and its meaning. God in this lesser form had a human will, so he could "choose" independently from the eternal God, who exists in a state of being that does not change. There was no lesser God in human will until the incarnation, according to your theory. God as a man went to sleep also. Did He do this within a human mind? Please answer this. What do you mean "sleep"? Like death? Or just going to sleep? The answer to both is the fact that Jesus became a man, fully. He had TWO natures or qualities, but still completely man AND completely Divine. It is demonstrated throughout the Gospels that Jesus was man and Divine. He got hungry, tired and thirsty; all human qualities. He also knew what people were thinking and had control over nature; Divine qualities. And being fully man He died on the cross. Not a second consciousness but a person with a will. And, Kittle's merely states a provable historic belief of ancient times. Again, you gave no link for the references from this Kittles. I do not have a copy of this dictionary lying around; I doubt many people here do. And I could not find it on line, therefore the information therein can not be held as reliable. Colossians 1:17-18 17; and he is [PRESENT TENSE] before all things [CREATION, previous verse], and by [in, at or near] him all things consist [hold together]. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is [PRESENT TENSE] the beginning, the firstborn from the dead [RESURRECTED, GLORIFIED]; that [IN ORDER THAT] in all things he might have [BECOME] the preeminence [THE FIRST]. These are the Greek definitions. Take note, Jesus was "first born from the dead" so that He could become "the first" or "pre-eminent." This is possible because of the Jewish belief that God and heaven always exist before all things, and the Son of Man ascended into the Spirit of God, who dwells outside of the universe in heaven. Jesus was born a man just like us; He gave up His equality with God to do this. He was BORN (just like us) He was Baptized (just like us) He died (just like us) and He was raised from the dead. (just like we WILL be) and this is why He is the first born. And, of course, AS GOD, who is Spirit, Jesus was greater than the angels before the incarnation, in order to become lower. However, after the resurrection, He as made greater than the angels. This does not mean that He became only a Spirit once again. We know by the Bible that He was raised up into a body that is a "new creation" of God. Yes, He became a man, after this He went to Heaven fro where He came. In this new body. Please do not forget, HE BECAME A MAN. This is very important. This is opposite of your theory, God became man. Consider the passage in Philippians: Philippians 2:7-8 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made [copied] in the likeness of men [plural] : 8 And being found in fashion [to hit upon] as a man [singular] , he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." Made: the habitus, as comprising everything in a person which strikes the senses, the figure, bearing, discourse, actions, manner of life etc. Fashion: to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being The Angel of the LORD in the Old Testament was God, but He appeared as man—as God's servant! Then who is Gabriel and Michael? I thought they were angels? Did God create them after the incarnation? I believe I covered this in the beginning of this post. He did not appear as man, He became a man, and by doing this He became as a servant. When I sent a representative it is someone I fully trust to display me in my absence. AND, Jesus is God just as the Father is God, there are no disagreements here. When Jesus says that marriage was never meant to be terminated by a man He is speaking in full confidence of God. So Jesus' words are God's words. This is why Jesus is the WORD of God, God's full revelation to man. Oneness is false, there are two many problems in the theory when studied by scriptures. The doctrine of the Trinity is superior in all ways when the two are compared side by side. I have enjoyed this debate and hope to debate other topics with Pro