Zaradi's Prized Debate Tournament Quarterfinal - TN05 vs. Valkrin

I, as well, am glad to have had this opportunity with opponent, and it has been a pleasure debating him. I'm gonna try pretty hard here cause I got nailed in the last round. Consider this a "last stand". :PWave-dashing/L-CancellingOpponent is true in the regard these are exploits of the physics engine, and not actual features meant to be implemented. However, they still play a key role in playing the game whether players seem to recognize it or not, as more than often if a player spams enough buttons they can pull off the right maneuver for at the very least a wavedash, at the very least an l-cancel. For those that understand the mechanic (not just casual players, but those who've looked up various Melee mechanics) it's very useful on characters such as Luigi, who often relies on his ground based attacks. The wavedash can be used for Luigi to have movement and still deal ground based attacks without walking or running, in fact the Melee Luigi somewhat relies on this. As well, l-cancelling allows for faster movements out of an aerial attack (most notably Link's down air). If used properly, characters that normally are bad because they have a lot of landing lag are now somewhat faster due to l-cancelling, and this makes characters like Link/YL a lot easier to maneuver and control if used properly. Even if they were not intentional, they are still a vital part of the game regardless, and should be taken into consideration, as this is an ability that can still be utilized by the players in gameplay. Overall Gameplay/CampingMy opponent states that camping is harder is SSB4 than in Melee. Unfortunately, opponent is mistaken. There are characters that have extremely projectile-based kits, such as Duck Hunt, Link (and TL), and Megaman (Robin included if you're able to manage his spells properly), and projectiles are pretty much what they rely on. When someone picks up this character and you play against them, it's always frustrating, as they're simply zoning you back with projectiles and not actually meaning to attack you close up. When a character is specifically designed to be projectiles-only, that screams out "camping". While opponent denies that camping is prevalent in SSB4, and instead decides to use the "edgehogging" idea as his escape, keep in mind that Fox's projectiles deal very low damage and do not cause flinching, and Falco's projectiles take a lot longer to fire, are slower and easier to predict, and can easily be blocked. As well, this is the only projectile-based move of these two characters. Take this as opposed to MM and DH, who constantly spam projectiles based on their kit and rarely try to fight close up. Overall this is what I feel makes the SSB4 experience less interesting than Melee, as there are many characters with the ability to camp as opposed to Melee. As well, even though elements such as edgehogging and planking were removed from SSB4, Melee has rarely seen plays of edgehogging/camping. As well, even though you are only invincible the first time in SSB4, this doesn't destroy the existence of camping, rather, if an opponent tries to attack you it's almost as easy as Melee to get an easy aerial off on him and kill him, depending on the % and if it's a dair or not. In regards to character, other characters have benefits that the seemingly "fast" characters don't. The main point is raw damage. Notice I didn't say "Damage output". Faster characters are able to deal less amounts of damage on a more consistent basis, while heavier characters can only deal one hit, yet deal lots of damage. As well, characters like Marth and YL have swords, which allows for a greater range than the faster characters, who almost exclusively use their fists. As well, most of the faster characters rely on aerials and regular attacks, while the more powerful ones tend to rely on their specials. This is why many prefer the faster characters, or characters with great regular attacks, and why these are used by pros. Because they are able to use their fingers faster than most, and properly manage their character, they can wield the faster ones with great precision. In the casual scene, the matches are relatively even, as most cannot move as fast as pros, and people in lower tiers tend to use specials more than regular attacks. So this is somewhat of an advantage for the more "casual" side of the community, which opponent says is a lot larger than the competitive community. Overall, some agree easier games are better, while some agree harder. An easier game would easily benefit a more casual player, but if a player truly wishes to get better at the game (which a lot do) they don't mind the harder edge, to improve. After all, how can you get better if you face an opponent easier than you? As well, opponent often mentions features available in the future, rather than the current point in time, which is what we are discussing. OnlineSSB4 does have the option of online, while the only option for Melee online is the PC, which, opponent points out, is dubious in terms of legality and doesn't have a huge community. The first is part-true. It's illegal if you do not own a physical copy of the game, however, it is legal if you rip a copy of the game files from the disc itself instead of using a torrent. And secondly, while the online community isn't huge it's still present. And the 3DS with SSB4 had some extreme problems with online connectivity. Enough that even Sakurai himself commented on it in order to give advice to reduce lag. [1] In instances this will work with no problem, however, there have been enough complaints about lag for Sakurai himself to take notice and comment about it, which says something about the online right there. Competitive SceneOpponent constantly states how I use the words "competitive scene" too much, and the competitive scene for Smash, compared to the "casuals" who play the game. Overall this is true, there are far more people who play the game simply for fun rather than competitively. However, not only is the competitive scene I think the biggest asset to the game, but also the community. A community of a game can make or break it. For example, I find League of Legends to be a good game, however with its number of toxic players, trollers, etc. I find the game unenjoyable. The community of both of the games are relatively large and have great people within them. For example, some players in the SSBM community raised over $100,000 dollars in research for breast cancer. [2] As well, while not the grandest in scale, a user figured out that at least 40K people had claimed points for tourneys in Melee on SmashBoards. [3] While not grand in scale compared to the casual scene, that's still, undoubtedly, an extremely large amount of people that have claimed points in Melee tournaments (not to mention there are those who failed to claim points! ). As well, with the creation of Project M, it has turned a dead (community-wise), badly designed and glitchy game (Brawl) into a true masterpiece, combining the good elements of both Melee and Brawl together. Despite what opponent says, by far there are less than the supposed "99% of Smash players". My point here is that no matter how good a game is, if there aren't people who play it it will die out. And the 3DS community of nearly any game is a lot smaller than the community of a console-game (3DS vs Wii U version is a good example). Even though there are more sold copies in the US of the 3DS version than the Wii U version, some seem to refer to the Wii U when talking about the game, because that's what the Smash series is known on: the consoles that support it. The Melee community is a lot more outspoken than the 3DS one, and seems to be greater in number as of now. As well, I never stated custom moves were useless, simply banned in most tourneys. ConclusionMy opponent wraps his debate up by stating that there a number of various things the 3DS SSB4 has, that are far more than the amount of features in Melee. However, as opponent himself states in my response to the amount of soundtracks: Quality ≠ quantity, and by far quality is not worse than quantity. Typically a game with more features tends to have a better outcome, and that is what opponent is basing his arguments off of, such as more game modes, more characters, more stages, and more unlockables. However, in the features Melee does excel in, they are by far more important than the features SSB4 excels in, as shown below. My final arguments are this:• The controller is one of the cruxes of a game, as proper controlls and controller shape, size, etc. affect everything about how you play said game. • Melee has by far a greater community and competitive scene that are a lot more outspoken than the 3DS one. • Characters in casual Melee are more balanced than what meets the eye, and in the competitive scene to properly use a fast character it requires faster fingers than most and great aerial management as well as attack management. As well, many characters in SSB4 promote camping while the opposite is true is Melee. Thus, Melee requires a lot more work to play the faster characters effectively. • While SSB4 has an online option, it can have great amounts of lag, even enough for Sakurai to take notice. • At the end of the day, multiplayer > singleplayer in Smash, and SSB4 focuses on singleplayer while Melee focuses on multiplayer. This is evident in the competitive scene and large, supportive community. While this was certainly tough, I believe we both put up great arguments for our respective sides. I thank opponent for his time and hope we can debate in the future. :)And now, I leave the rest to the voters. Sources:[1] . http://www.nintendoeverything.com...[2] . http://www.milktea-ssbm.tumblr.com...;[3] . http://www.reddit.com...;