God more likely than no, exists

>>"to try to rationalize this as neurons firing in the brain is just that... rationalizing against the most apparent and obvious explanation." Neurons firing in the brain is a verifiable scientific phenomena. There are several studies, including one publised in Popular Science not too long ago that not only deal with the fact that NDE can be induced by a magnetic field (http://www.erowid.org...), but also the fact that brain chemistry plays a HUGE role in the production of experiences that are described as abnormal or spiritual (http://meta-religion.com...). In addition, the article in PopSci discussed the fact that there is a lobe of the brain that activates when people believe they're having a religious experience WHETHER OR NOT IT IS REAL OR INDUCED. It seems to me that concluding scientific phenomena is the work of god is rationalization. ESPECIALLY given any sort of religious conditioning in the patient. NDE screams of damage to the brain - science can explain most of what causes NDE. To conclude it is god is to make an unwarranted assumption because of religious conditioning. >>"if people generally don't have them... but theists do... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see there's something to being a theist." Only a theist would consider them miracles! Many things are really contingent coincidences. Consider the case where a child wanders onto a railroad crossing and gets his shoe caught in the rail gap there at the crossing. The track is curved such that the conductor couldn't apply the brakes in time to stop the train if he did so immediately upon seeing the child. The child is stuck... the train rumble and whistle is heard... the mother screeches... the train stops inches from the child. Miracle, right? No - we learn the operator fainted because his blood pressure was too low and the train automatically applied the brake when the operator ceased holding the controls. It just so happened that the brakes were applied in time to spare the child. NOT a miracle. But a theist will still consider it so, possibly even when learning about the contingencies concerning the operator. Qualitatively, the only thing being a theist changes is the propensity to see "miracles" where there are none. >>"if atheists convert after NDEs far and away, that's not only theists experiencing it... and it's not them walking away believing it. athesits are to refute the fact that atheists convert... and as i said before, things that happen solely to them like miralces doesn't happen to others. and if the evidence is in their favor for NDEs, they have a burden to rebut. " This makes no sense - you say that it's "not only theists experiencing it [NDE's]" and then immediately after is say that "things that happen solely to them like miralces doesn't happen to others." That's blatantly contradictory. Make up your mind here. The atheist is under no obligation to re-explain science to the theist. The science is there - the theist simply chooses to see god where there is no verifiable evidence that it IS god. But there IS verifiable evidence that has a scientific explanation. >>"if you believe in unicorns, and miracles happened to you, then you'd have an argument that there might be something to unicorns. but, you don't have that. theists do have that stuff, and evidence in their favor. " But miracles don't happen to me. They don't happen to theists either - theists simply choose to see them because they fancy the idea that they're right about god. Theists have their misguided notion of what a miracle is, and evidence that favors science. ********************** Actually, in the grand scope of things, it is theists who try to rationalize. There is no excuse for a move to attribute phenomena to a deity when the same phenomena can be explained by science. Just as it would be ridiculous to attribute the phenomenon of gravity to god, it is ridiculous to attribute the neurochemical and biological idiosyncrasies of a dying brain to god. As far as this source (http://www.near-death.com...) goes, a little surfing around their site unearths both that the site is CLEARLY geared towards theists and people who want to believe that NDE is god at work. Also, their evidence is testimony and interpretations, not scientific data...