Do Females have any responsibility

You Posted "My opponent claims "if a woman dresses in a risque, provcative, manner, she knows that she is inviting attention to her feminine attributes when she dress like that. sotheseedsofliberty2's Response: The woman who dresses in that manner is not innocent of the effects of dressing in a risque fashion and is not taken by surprised when men take notice of her." ( A ) You replied,The problem is in knowing what any individual man will find risque or provocative. sotheseedsofliberty2's Response: ( A ) A woman instinctively knows what manner of dress will stimulate the male's response to her and for you to inply that the woman isn't aware of the effects of her wearing a"risque, provcative," dress is insulting to all women's intelligence. ( B ) There are fetishists sights devoted to women dressed as nuns for example, are we to say "well if she didn't want that kind of attention she shouldn't have been dressed like a nun" sotheseedsofliberty2's Response: These women by wearing a nuns robes are deliberertly, by their wearing nuns apparal,are drawing attention to themselves. Doesn't a judge, by wearing a robe or a policeman by the uniform that they wear also draw attention to themselves by their apparal. ( C ) in Saudi Arabia a woman is considered to be provocative and risque if jer hair is showing, even just one lock and especially if that hair is blonde. sotheseedsofliberty2's Response: In India,the cow is considered sacred. "....there are varying beliefs about cattle in societies and religions. In some regions, especially Nepal and most states of India,..." religions such as Hinduism, Jainism, Zoroastrianism,...." Wikipedia What applies in Saudi Arabia or India doesn't apply in America. ( D ) When you say women are responsible for inciting negative attention they don't want you are asking her to hide her sexuality all together. ( D ) sotheseedsofliberty2's Response: You are saying, it is either that she dress provocative and risque or her feminity will be denied and not recognnized. Modest dress does not mask a womans charms in any way. ( E ) This is a subjective and prejudice view. To say "she was asking for it" is damaging to a person who has already been victimized. sotheseedsofliberty: You stated, I believe, that a womman should be able to run down a alley naked and not be raped..." this is not reality, not the real world that we live in, the real world is what we have to deal with here. James Madison once said,"If men were angels,no government...No rules of conduct/laws,... would be necessary...." ( F ) He also states "America has been thought of as one of the more developed countries and the countries standards and modes of acceptable dress and conduct," to which I reply so what. sotheseedsofliberty: If you can take the liberty of flaunting Saudi Arabia as a standard of what is acceptable then I also am free to bring up America's standards of what is acceptable or not. ( G ) you stated,"It was never specified that this debate is contingent upon having an American standard for the modes of acceptable dress and conduct American standard for the modes of acceptable dress and conduct." sotheseedsofliberty2: nor were the ground rules ever stated that America's "standard for the modes of acceptable dress and conduct" couldn't be used here. ( H ) He also asserts that "in America, it wouldn't be acceptable to use a open field where males and females relieved themselves /went to the toilet" except that if you are camping it is. sotheseedsofliberty2's response: The peccadillos and lifestyles of campers will be left for another day. ( I ) Also if I were deficating in a field that would hardly give you the right to force unwanted attention on me. sotheseedsofliberty2: If you, were brazen enough to expose yourself, if female, to the world in an open field your saying, by your actions that your fair game. ( J ) However in his example he points out that women in India are subject to assault for this very reason. Should we considered then an Indian woman at fault because she ought to know how a woman crapping in a field gets an Indian guys motor revving. Here again "Relativism" rears its ugly head, who are we to judge other people's sexual fedishes. "Diane Coffey, a Ph.D. candidate with Princeton's Woodrow Wilson School and an economist, She studied five northern Indian states and found that 19 percent of women with access to a latrine still preferred to defecate in the open." Wikipedia These Indian women then, like American women know what turns on American men, knew what revved up" an Indian guys motor." ( K ) The subjective nature of attraction means that it is almost impossible for a woman to know if her model of dress or behavior would be considered provocative. sotheseedsofliberty2 Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden, eve have known what turned a man on, come on now, your not that naive as to think that women don't understand and know when they are dressing provocatively. ( L ) You replied, " Believe me its almost as hard to be sure that you are dressed sexy as to be sure that you are not." sotheseedsofliberty2: unbelievable that you would make such a statement. In conclusion in a country like America (since that is the country apparently whose biases are being discussed) where the negative social stigma of not being pretty are just as real and nearly as profound as the stigma of perceived sluttyness minus the threat of sexual assault, it is a very unfair double standard to say that dressing attractively, which is an expected social norm, is any excuse for the harassment of an individual. ( M ) You Posted," It is not a crime nor is it complicit to a crime to be sexy in and of itself." Thank you sotheseedsofliberty2: " beauty is in the eye of the beholder..."... For a woman to dress " slutty, identifies her as a woman who doesn't care about her moral image and respect.