As long as the United States is a patriarchal society, women will not be truly equal

.. haha. . get it? "When women are treated as equals. .. society as a whole does better. " - "Overall, the system works better under equality. " --- Can you use some sources for this, or somehow define "better". I will (later) argue against this. In what societies would you consider women to have been treated as equal? Owning Land: CONCEDED women should be allowed to own land/property. Access to Education: MODIFIED I don't know when women were denied education. Maybe formal education, but even then. .. there were schools for girls, they were just separate. It was a class issue, not a gender one. I think women and men should be treated equal under law in terms of our chances for education. No scholarship should be just for one sex, no quotas on the percentage of a certain sex. If women can pass the tests and raise the money, they get the same chances. History: Subjugation of a population of people is beneficial to society. "It was practiced with slaves, Blacks, immigrants, women, etc. It is a well-established way to keep the less fortunate down. And it is wrong. " - things worked out pretty good in societies where there was a subjugated population. (For society as a whole). In fact, there has never been a great society built (meaning came to greatness) that didn't subjugate one population or another. (Unless you can find a society that breaks that, it will be accepted as true. I'll give for example. .. . Rome, Mongolia, China, England, America, Third Reich, Egypt, Napoleonic France (he re-instated it! )) If those aren't a list of the greatest societies that ever existed on Earth, I'm not sure what criteria you want to go on. "a) has not detracted from the education of men" -- tell that to any man who has had his job/scholarship/athletic team passed over because it was unfair to women "b) serves as a positive and sustainable economic stimulus" -- we have 10% unemployment anyway. .. we don't need more workers "c) increases the intelligence of your average member of society. " -- I'm sorry, what? Have you paid attention to America? Do you believe that (1) we're striving to become an educated populace (2) we're anywhere close to becoming one (3) the type of education women are getting is the type that will "raise the bar" on society? and (4) George Carlin - "think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of 'em are stupider than that" People are stupid, they choose to be. . and nothing will change that in the construct of the current society. .. additionally. .. women did educate themselves in past times. . they could take it upon themselves to learn to read, it wasn't like they were forbidden. .. it's most a of social-class problem then a male-female problem. Voting and Politics: CONCEDED, regardless of the following- women should have the right to vote under our current political system. . http://www.smbc-comics.com... "a) intelligent enough to be educated alongside men" - In America, we do not sit the right to vote on intelligence. There is no aptitude test to pass before you can vote. The intelligence of the voter is non-consequential. "b) are thrifty enough to contribute significantly to society" -- Also not a criteria for voting "Disclaimer" - I'm well aware of the construct of the debate, you don't need to remind me. .. thank you "Given that women represent HALF of the population, their opinions, proposals and needs have just as much validity as men's. " Approximately 25% of the population is under the age of 18. Their opinions, proposal and needs have just as much validity as adults. - I would love to hear any worthy rebuttal to this. I can't imagine you support children being able to vote. While this doesn't say why women shouldn't, it just removes the "that's crazy talk! " aspect of your "we're XX% of the population, we should get a vote". Additionally, approx. 3% of the adult population is in prison. Only two states (ME and VT) allow voting while in prison. That's another 3% who's opinions, proposals and needs have just as much validity. Again, I'm not saying they should get the right to vote, I'm just saying that by saying "we're XX% of the population, we deserve a voice". .. is not a good argument That being said, I don't really mind so much if women vote in the current system. I think sex gets in the way of rational thought, but I think that happens to guys too. So I will concede to women's suffrage. And I would argue against women being in politics, but that too becomes pretty useless on its own. So I will concede that women should be allowed in politics too. Health care and Family: "In fact, many young women entered childbirth expecting not to see the other side. " -- that's an exaggeration, everyone that goes sky diving expects the chute not to work. There were plenty of women who gave birth 6+ times and lived a full life. Women did die in childbirth. . but calm it down a bit. Besides that, I have no idea what you are talking about in this paragraph. "it is also within the realm of fairness that women ought have the right to control her own body and her own life. " I really don't know what you're saying. I'm not arguing for arranged marriages and "honor murders", if that's what you think. My arguments! ! Historically, women have been subjugated. There's not much room for debate there. Western civilization has always been patriarchal. Why? (1) Women are physically weaker. In history, this makes a huge difference. If you were a weaker people, you were subjugated. Period (2) Women needed to be protected. Not only because of their physical weakness, but their emotional and biological ones. Historically, they didn't have midol and birth control. Without these, it greatly changes the temperament of a woman. (3) Thirdly, hygiene. No joke, in ancient times, women weren't allowed out of the house while they were menstruating. They didn't have tampons or maxi pads. Those things were kept private and deserving so. There's probably more, but I'm just quibbing it More recent history, Since the industrial revolution, men have gone to work and women have stayed home and raised the kids. Dad made enough money to keep up with the Jones' and Mom provided her children with the love and care that mother could. When the work force was low (due to war), women would be hired en masse. Not by desire, but by necessity. They knew that as soon as Papa came home, she would be back at home, having kids and raising the family… and was HAPPY about it. If you want the history of women since the industrial revolution, it's that. Men don't go to work because they want to, they do it because they have to. Society doesn't work without it. Women ENJOY being care givers, but recently they WANT to take on the responsibility that men have for no other reason than their desire to be equal. They don't want to help society, they want to help themselves. If you are arguing for a society like a lion's pride, where the male just sits around all day while the women do absolutely EVERYTHING. .. you sold me. I think one thing that is important to note in all of this. Men didn't choose to be men, we just are. And as such, we take on our responsibility of being MEN. Part of that is working and taking responsibility for the household. Making sure our family is provided for. I believe (as I will expand upon later) that women being in the work force (en masse) is undermining that American Dream. I apologize for my convoluted arguments… I just wasn't sure what I was addressing when talking strictly on "the past". Like, it was patriarchal. .. ok? I'm not supporting pre-industrial revolution ideas. Once we get to "where we are now" and "where we should go", I should have more structured arguments. Thank you, and good luck.