Expired IDs should be accepted to prove DOB

.. .. and. .. . RC1"First off, I am not interested in "winning" this argument on this web site or getting positive comments or having some "judge" critique the argument or getting points. "That is perfectly satisfactory to me; I’ll accept your concession soon, if that is truly how you feel. I’ll also let the judges know how little you think of their skills to categorically evaluate the debate. “I am also not interested in using fancy language or citations. I am also not interested in the law or the courts or the constitution. This is a philoosphical question of sorts and I don't care if some judge, politician or even majority of the population supports your side. ”I will accept your concession of the spelling and grammar point as well as the sources points. The law doesn’t exist arbitrarily as to rule it irrelevant in an argument of an imperative (should, must, etcetera); the purpose of just law exists because it codifies the philosophical* and moral norms to which society should adhere. Law is considered applied ethics. [1]“I want actual original counter arguments, not simply citing a law. .. government. ”It sounds like you are ordering me around to provide you with an assignment. Ask this question on Yahoo Answers; I’m sure they’ll love to do your homework. See my added contention “Identification without government” for a response to your philosophical and reasoning question. RC2“Secondly, you say we can't accept expired IDs because they are more likely to get discarded and picked up by juveniles. .. threw it away. ”Both forms are used and both forms are fraud. It’s much easier for a person to use a family member or friend’s old ID for a night to buy alcohol or get into a nightclub than to spend $200-300 on a decent-looking ID which has the only function of lying about one’s age. The fraud that you mentioned is not germane to the resolution, so let’s try to keep it pertinent. “Besides, they would have to (or logically should) find somebody who has the same looks, height, age, etc. for it to be reasonably believable anyway. .. that concern. ” I think it’s more likely that a person would use the old ID of a family member or friend before they would illegally purchase a fake ID. I am currently conducting two polls on the subject which I will post the results of in the next round. RC3 “Third, I do say the expiration date matters on a drivers license, but only IF that person is driving. The DOB portion is all that matters when one is buying beer. ”Thank you for asserting the Con position on the resolution. You could have added that the ID is no longer valid in a government system or in a spontaneous system to permit that action. RC4 “Fourth, I don't accept that a driver's license is the main form of identification in the U. S. There are military IDs, passports, ID card, etc. many of which have expiration dates. .. ”This argument is a bit like saying, "Pie isn't the best food, because cake is pretty good too. " Driver’s licenses are used to identify you when you are pulled over by the police. They are used every time one makes a bank deposit. They are used when purchasing alcohol, tobacco, firearms, fireworks, spray paint. They are used when applying for a marriage license or pilot’s license. They are used when getting into a nightclub, a gentlemen’s club, and bars. They are used when renting a car, plane, or boat. They are used when applying to college and other institutions. In fact, since transactions and proof of ID have become so linked together, twenty-four US states have added magnetic strips to their state driver’s licenses in order to turn them into debit cards. [2]RC5“Fifth, I would not consider using an expired ID to prove your age 'FRAUD' . .. ”Fraud is the wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in unfair advantage or personal gain, so if someone uses an illegitimate ID to purchase or attend something with a minimum age requirement, they are committing fraud in the eyes of the social order, the law, and the spontaneous transactional order. Once again, I do not care about your weapons permit, and since it is not a primary form of identification, you should refrain from mentioning it for the entirety of the rest of this debate. RC6"Sixth, if the government were to change the law and allow a shopkeeper to accept expired IDs as proof somebody is old enough to buy that beer, it would hardly lead to "SOCIAL DISORDER. " give me a break. Social disorder are riots anarchy. " That is true, but only because the moral and social framework in the absence of government will compensate for that lack. Now, if the government mandated that everyone be allowed to purchase drugs at any age regardless of the pertinent sagacity of the store-keeper, then there would be social disorder. I explain this in my added contention:Identification without governmentThe point is that even without a system of coercion forcing people to comply with the REAL ID ACT or state laws pertaining to ID checks, people will naturally shy away from handing drugs to young children, because it’s a moral norm. The system of government monopoly on the issuance of legitimate identification for this sort of use is unnecessary. Private identification centers would spring up in the absence of the government control in order to facilitate the trust in forming contracts and buying and selling. The integrity of these systems would be held in check by the media who would report bad centers. When the new centers would issue IDs, they would naturally require proof beyond reasonable doubt that “you are who you say you are. ” And in turn, people with whom you make contracts, deals, or agreements would rely on your identification as the means by which to hold you accountable. Private stores would most likely establish their own rules regarding the purchase of drugs, and would require identification for young-looking customers based on the inherent moral responsibility in genuine human interaction. [3] [4]Since private enterprise naturally runs every operation more efficiently and effectively than the government, the expiration on IDs would be shorter than government issued IDs, because when a case compromises the integrity of an ID issuer, his store may be untrusted, disreputable, and following from that: unprofitable. It is quite reasonable to assume that since firms would maintain their own minimum age requirements and identification would arise from the natural order of protecting natural rights of contract and exchange, that expired IDs would not be considered legitimate sources of identification and could even harm a store’s reputation and by extension, the store’s profit. Stories such as, “Chuck’s gas station selling alcohol to 8-year-olds with expired IDs” would definitely deter some customers in the same manner that the Catholic Sex Abuse Scandal deterred church offerings in the order of billions of dollars. Therefore, identification would arise out of the spontaneous natural order to protect natural contract and exchange rights and the DOB checking would be more effective and appropriate than government-mandated rules. ConclusionWith or without government, expired IDs would not be accepted to prove DOB. People, through moral responsibility, care about one another and set private rules to ensure the interests of both parties in a transaction. My opponent has failed to present a case and thus fails in his burden of proof. I have exceeded my burden of broof. [1] . http://www.iep.utm.edu...[2] . http://www.creditcards.com...[3] . http://mises.org...[4] . http://plato.stanford.edu...