The Ressurection of Jesus

Well, pro, what can I say? You have proved yourself of being a worthy opponent. Your points are strong and it was tough finding a way to refute them. I shall do my best to answer your claims. Fact 1: Jesus died by crucifixion. I think that this is common ground for both of us. We really don't need to go into any more detail about this. The truth is there is adequate evidence to support this. Fact 2:Jesus' desciples believed that he rose and appeared to them. Remember: Just because you believe something DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT IS THE TRUTH! You claim, "Now, why would someone die for what they knew was a falsehood?" This argument is very common. However, I will start off by saying that people have died for lies before. People were put to death for the beliefe in Isalm, and even Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, was killed for his belief! Now, if Mormonism wasn't true, why would he be willing to face imprisonment for it and even be maryered for it. Let me show you an examle in recent times, the Watchtower has produced 3 possible dates for the end of the world. All 3 of them dates came and went. However, there are still people who are Jehovah's wittnesses even though the Watchtower was wrong, which should have proved right then and there that their belief in the Watchtower was wrong. Fact 3: The church persecutor Paul was suddenly changed. This does not mean that the ressurection occured, it just means that Paul believed it. And remember from my second rebuttle, just because you believe something does not mean it is the truth. Can Paul even be a good wittness? Let's look at a few verses. For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, that I might win the more. To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews; to those under the law I became as one under the law – though not being myself under the law – that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law – not being without law toward God but under the law of Christ – that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings. (I Corinthians. 9:19-25). He openly acknowledged a practice that is utterly dishonest. To the Jews, he presented himself as a Jew. But to those outside the law, the Greeks and others, he presented himself as outside the law – as a Greek if we go by his Greek name. He became all things to all men! Whatever the occasion demands, that he is. Its begins more and more to appear as though the Ebionites may have been correct in their statements about Paul – that he was a Greek and never a Pharisee Jew. By his own firm statement, he was a human chameleon! For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? Romans 3:7 In this verse, Paul is basically asking this question, "If my lie is getting people to convert to Christianity, why am I being judged as a sinner?" You see that he admits to lying. We also know that he admits to robbing other churches! "I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service." 2 Chorinthians 11:8 KJV So, you can see that Paul is such a great wittness! Fact 4: The skeptic James, brother of Jesus, was suddenly changed. Again, what does this prove except the fact that he believed in the ressurection? Just because someone believed something, doesn't mean it actually happened. Fact 5: The tomb was empty Does an empty tomb mean that the person that was in there is now alive? No, it just means he is no longer in that tomb. Perhaps Joseph of Aramathia removed the body of Jesus and put him into a mass grave with other crucified victims? Now, I also have other theories as to why they didn't produce the body of Jesus. The answer is perhaps they did! However, as stated before, no matter how much evidence against someone's beliefe is given to them, they still find ways to refute it. I'll go back to the Watchtower argument. There have been numerous dates set by the watch tower for the return of Christ, yet all those attempts failed. Rather than facing the facts that the watchtower is wrong, many Jehovah's wittnesses continue to support the watchtower. Interesting huh? It is hard to believe that Joseph of Armathia provided the tomb for Jesus. After all, he was one of the people who voted for execution. Why provide his family tomb? That is sac-religious. Another argument, why on Earth would the Phairasees be so concerned over a small little gentile cult? Christianity didn't catch on long after Jesus' death. Also, we don't know what tomb Jesus was buried in? How can one say it was/is empty if we have no clue where it is at! Critisism 1. Long by wat standard? Well, when you are a historian, you will realize that historians look at events and want CONTEMPORARY evidence, meaning something written shortly after the alleged event occured. Example, 2000 years from now, historians wouldn't credit a writing of the 1st moon-landing written in 2011, they would want something from that exact year--right? Unfortunatly, most of the gospels were written long after wards. As far as your oral-tradition theory, sure, but have you ever played telephone before? Imagine playing a game of telephone over several generations! How much difference would the story be from the person that 1st told the story to the person that wrote it down? Think about it. 2. You claim, "Many reliable works of history have contradictions in them, yet that is no reason to toss out their information outright. The fact that they provide similar information gives us enough reason to think something that happened which was miraculous. Moreover, it is a streach to say the gospels contradict one another. A better explanation is that they were providing complementary explanations." Just to shorten this down is that you claim that they were telling the story from their own viewpoint. That is fine, but what is the best way to discredit a story that has been fabricated? Well, you look for discripancies! If you read the gospels, they're full of them! 3. "So...what if they were written by somebody else? Then whoever wrote it could have twisted the story? Plus they are not eye-witness accounts. Now, as far as the creed in 1 Corinthians, there are issues: 1. There were only 11 disciples at that time. Judas was not replaced and Judas has hung himself. I am going to recommend watching this video. Watch it and give me your opinions. http://www.youtube.com... it gives a lot of in-site. Also, why are there no secular sources for the ressurection? There are tons for the crucifixion, not for the ressurection. The ones that are were written LONG after the supposed events. More arguments, no more characters :(