Ben Should Become a Vegetarian

1. It is granted that meat products will continue to mean more resources are expended, but I'm not sure that has been shown to matter. My "admission" about not consuming much red meat doesn't mean I need to change, since it implies I don't really need to go anywhere if there isn't a problem. When you say I'm partly to blame for the incentive-scape, I agree. However I'm standing in a 90% majority even by that wiki's own numbers, by the most conservative estimate. That's excluding even the "vegetarian curious" numbers. Changing people's desires for meat is hard. Other options will be easier. Even if I were to go fully vegan, I'd be forced to be equally realistic. I'd still probably have to conclude the efforts of myself and those like me would not add up to a significant solution. 2. I agree I probably need to eat more vegetables as an omnivore simply because I don't have much of a balanced diet as it is. I really hate vegetables. The veggies I like are either the least like most veggies (corn and carrots) or have to be so chopped up as to be indiscernible from the food I do like that it is mixed in (like salsa). But eating more veggies wouldn't necessarily mean I'd be eating less meat per se. It would probably just mean I'd eat more veggies. I've not seen anything that has come out against a well balanced omnivore diet as far as health goes. All food pyramids still include meat as far as I know. So that's probably a losing argument for your side. 3A. I would say I have a very pragmatic, stripped down, independent approach to diet since I don't like wasting my time on unnecessary efforts. I expect by default everyone to feed themselves as competent and capable adults. Incidentally you happen to have a "let's cook an elaborate meal and all eat together" approach which is fine. I suppose I could refuse to cook with you and eat with you in order to maintain the symmetry of my approach and have considered that often. I'm allowing you to make your choices and splitting the difference by accommodating you to an extent. Even if that means waiting to eat, preparing food I don't necessarily like that much, having tons more dishes on a regular basis, and having you complain that I don't do the dishes I didn't want to create, because I know I don't like doing the dishes. And you don't like doing the dishes either in principle, and yet most of the dishes are generated from your approach to meals. So...in terms of practical strain...we'd have to adopt my policies instead of yours. But I don't expect you to change here. 3B. That study also says, "Shifting less than one day per week's worth of calories from red meat and dairy products to chicken, fish, eggs, or a vegetable-based diet achieves more GHG reduction than buying all locally sourced food." This seems to imply much more to large families who are cooking elaborate meals on a daily basis. This goes back to point 1 where I don't eat much red meat anyway and most of it is consumed one day a week on my "free day." I also don't consume much in the way of dairy throughout the week and most of it is again consumed on Saturday. So this debate is a huge red herring as though everyone has to change when some of us just aren't ranking high on the scale to begin with. Most of my elaborate meals are meal options you have chosen and you are a vegetarian. So again, I'm already just by occupying social space and time "doing my part" by going with the flow. Dieting is already hard and I often fail on my own terms. I'm not going to make it harder for the sake of nearly hopeless global problems I'm not going to solve. 3C. Like we couldn't do that anyway!