Re: The biblical God probably doesn't exist.

Ok, here we go. :)*I want to reiterate that let’s stick to the KJV, not the NKJV. Don’t mean to be overly picky, but there are significant differences. The accuracy of one translation vs. another could be the topic of another debate. Historically KJV is the most popular and considered the most accurate. It is a word-for-word translation, whereas newer translations generally rephrase the original wording to confirm with a particular interpretation.*Also, just so folks understand my perspective, I am Christian, devout Mormon (aka LDS) to be specific. I do not claim to represent or speak authoritatively for other Christians of any sect (including LDS); I’m just giving my opinion.*Also, throughout this I am intentionally trying to not cite scripture. If you want me to provide a reference I’m happy to, but I’m trying to leave the scriptural burden with you. I may cite a few verses, but I’m mostly just going to respond to yours. You’re the one trying to prove that “God probably doesn’t exist” based on the description of God in the Bible.Regarding omniscience, I agree with you that the verses you cited are often interpreted to mean that God is omniscient. But let’s dig deeper.First, what is “omniscient”? I generally agree with your definition, and I personally consider God to be omniscient, however I do not believe this to be absolute but relative. The Bible does not use the word “omniscient” and provides no definition for such a word. Instead we have created this word.In the LDS church there is a saying that goes, “As God is, Man may become, and as Man is, God once was.” I’m putting this in my own words, so don’t quote me, but that’s the general concept. This phrase carries a lot of meaning. Comparing God’s knowledge with ours is like comparing an infant child with its parents. Relatively speaking, the parents could be called omniscient.God doesn’t literally know everything there is to know in absolute terms. I fully acknowledge that many within Christendom would reject my opinion and assert that God does literally know everything, but they’re wrong. The people that argue this would probably also argue that there are no errors in the Bible, grammatical or otherwise, and that it is literally the word of God. Scripturally, there is nothing to suggest that God’s “omniscience” is absolute.Second, what is “knowledge”? Knowledge of WHAT? The scriptures do not say that God knows everything about everything, period. For example, could God tell me the distance between two microbes on some random planet? I’m sure he can get out a telescope or even travel in-person with a ruler, but I seriously doubt he has this information memorized. When knowledge is spoken of in the scriptures this generally means knowledge of the gospel, knowledge of “good and evil” or whatever one wants to call it. It is speaking of absolute laws of nature, outside even God’s “authority.”Third, in studying the Old/New Testament I think it’s important to clarify who “god” or “lord” refers to. There are two persons to be concerned with, Jehovah, who is also Jesus Christ in the New Testament, and Elohim, who is the Father. Now of course, many within Christendom believe in the Trinity and consider both to be the same person. This belief however is not scriptural and not all Christians believe this. In these particular verses it is Jehovah/Christ that is being referred to. That by itself is also evidence to support my points above. The fact that two distinct beings have apparently equal traits raises questions regarding the full extent of said traits.Let’s look at the scriptures you referenced. Nothing about the phrases “perfect in knowledge,” “God of knowledge” or “understanding is infinite” suggests an absolutely omniscient being that knows everything about everything. The only phrase that maybe comes a little close is “understanding is infinite,” but understanding is very different than knowledge.Regarding omnibenevolence.First, I would ask that you clarify the definition of “benevolent” since “omnibenevolent” is defined as being an infinite amount of this. As with omniscience, this is a word that doesn’t appear in the scriptures, we are making it up. Note the word “benevolent” also doesn’t appear anywhere. It is a word I have never personally used to describe God, nor is it a word I can recall ever being used at church, and when I say church I mean LDS, Baptist and many other churches I’ve been to. Frankly I’m inclined to simply reject that God is “omnibenevolent.”That said though, when I hear the word “omnibenevolent,” to me, it simply means “infinite kindness” or “charity” or “pure love.” Is this what is meant by the word? If so, I agree.Second, I don’t agree with the interpretation of the verses you reference. I don’t read these verses to mean that God is omnibenevolent.Psalm 18 is essentially a poem that David wrote. It’s not the Lord saying to us, “hey, I’m omnibenevolent,” but rather David giving his opinion of the Lord. He’s praising the Lord for helping him through some trials, trials BTW through which he grew. Again, Lord here refers to Christ, not God the Father. Also note difference between 18:30 vs. 18:32. First David describes God’s way as being perfect. And then he says in 32 that because of the strength given to him by God, his [David’s] way is also perfect. So is David also omnibenevolent? What does David actually say? He doesn’t say God is perfect, but his “way” is, and what does this have to do with benevolence?Psalm 19 says law of LORD is perfect, nothing more. Doesn’t say the law is easy or pleasant, just that it’s right. And that too is relative to the people at that time.Preemptively I also want to add that benevolence or kindness or love doesn’t necessarily mean “easy” or “fun.” Based on your previous debate I suspect I know where you’ll go with this. The existence of pain or suffering is not mutually exclusive with a loving God. I’m sure you’ve heard the expression, “no pain, no gain.” Growth is work, and work is pain. Learning to ride a bike requires falling a few times. Is it written anywhere in the Bible that pain or suffering is bad? God could be infinitely kind and cause infinite suffering at the same time, could he not?See Ecclesiastes 1:18 – “For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.” (http://lds.org...)Regarding omnipotence. First, as with the previous omnis, this word doesn’t actually exist, so we’re making it up, yet again…You didn’t say anything about omnipotence but I think this is equally important and I suspect I know where you’ll go with this too. I would agree that God is omnipotent, but as with omniscience, this is relative. I do not believe in an ex nihilo creation. Scripturally there is no evidence for this either.That being the case, God didn’t create natural laws such as the laws of Physics, he is constrained by them as much as we are, but of course he has much more knowledge than we do. Likewise God did not create evil. He did not create Satan, etc.As with omniscience I acknowledge many within Christendom would disagree with me, but they are wrong :) Scripturally there is no evidence to support this absolute omnipotence. I would also again point to the significance of the fact that the god of the Old Testament is Jehovah, aka Christ, not Elohim, God the Father. Scriptures in the Old Testament used to support the absolute omnipotence of God would most likely point to Jehovah. How could Jehovah and Elohim both be omnipotent? Well they can’t, or that omnipotence is meant to be relative.