(Pro) Atheistic evolution vs Christian creationism (con)

R3 Rebuttals"Stupidape: "My opponent must take a literal Christian approach to creationism. This is because, I don't want to have to hit a moving target...." I am not a Christian. I'm Jewish. Though I believe I'll be a suitable punching bag. :)I believe in God, the Torah, and creationism. I reject abiogenesis, speciation, and macroevolution." YozavadIt is not what you believe, but what you debate. So long as your willing to debate Christian creationism, you could be Muslim for all I care. "I believe empathy proves creationism and disproves evolution. I also believe Science is a rookie subjugated by its own interpretations." YozavadScience is a skeptical point of view aimed to eliminate as much bias as possible via the scientific method. Any bias comes from humans. "Empathy Argument:Predation, breeding quarrels, territorial disputes, suffering, disease, and environmental changes. All of this is governed by the Darwinian principle, "survival of the fittest." Evolution doesn't have an umpire, yet we constantly see various species saying, "to hell with darwinian principles." We hear it by their actions.I saw a guerrilla documentary. The cameramen came across some guerrillas attempting to rescue a dog. Poachers had placed some wiretraps in the area, and an unlucky dog stepped in it. The cameramen were amazed at how the guerrillas were trying to free the horrified dog's paw from the clutches of the wiretrap. The guerrillas were unsuccessful. A cameraman freed the dog after they left.Abiogenesis didn't give them guerrillas empathy. Abiogenesis has no traits to pass along to us.Evolution? Nope. Evolution is as hard as nails. That dog's existence would not benefit the guerillas." YozavadI assume you mean gorillas as in hairy apes as opposed to Vietnam guerrilla warfare. Empathy is useful and seen in many other species other than humans. "Empathy also plays a role in cooperation. One needs to pay close attention to the activities and goals of others to cooperate effectively. A lioness needs to notice quickly when other lionesses go into hunting mode, so that she can join them and contribute to the pride’s success. A male chimpanzee needs to pay attention to his buddy’s rivalries and skirmishes with others so that he can help out whenever needed, thus ensuring the political success of their partnership. Effective cooperation requires being exquisitely in tune with the emotional states and goals of others." [17]As you can see empathy does serve a purpose. Empathy is found in chickens "Chickens are capable of feeling empathy, scientists believeDomestic chickens display signs of empathy, the ability to 'feel another's pain' that is at the heart of compassion, a study has found. " [18]"They freed cagemates even when social contact was prevented. When liberating a cagemate was pitted against chocolate contained within a second restrainer, rats opened both restrainers and typically shared the chocolate. Thus, rats behave pro-socially in response to a conspecific’s distress, providing strong evidence for biological roots of empathically motivated helping behavior." [19]That being said, evolution is the answer to how empathy evolved in humans. As to the most primitive organism that possess empathy, I would guess a multi-cell organism. Meaning abiogenesis was not responsible for empathy but evolution was. As for the gorillas not benefiting from the dog's existence, that is difficult to determine. The food chain is elaborate and perhaps the gorillas do benefit from the dog. One example would be if the dog hunted and killed diseased gorillas reinforcing survival of the fittest. Then, more food would be available for the healthy gorillas. As for the violent acts which animals perform, this too is reinforcement for evolution. These actions are done for a purpose. For example, having a high sex drive would increase likely hood of reproduction. The downside would be the event you mentioned, the higher chance of reproduction must outweigh the downside. Chimpanzees are hunters, what you see is torture, I see as imagination, the Chimp, like a cat toying with a mouse, is using his/her imagination to help hunt and thus survive to reproduce, reinforcing evolution. There are plenty of Bible versus that have been use to promote animal cruelty. Animals not having souls, but humans having sous. God giving man dominion over animals."For centuries, religion played no small part in the needless suffering of animals. In the work of religious scholars and philosophers – most memorably, that of Descartes – human kind was taught to believe that animals were nothing more than soulless automaton; renewable resources with which we can do what we wish. Indeed we refer to this kind of opinion today as ‘Cartesian’, and thus we embed it with an air of intellectual vigour which science tells us it does not deserve. In truth the view is nothing more than religious nonsense which, like the creation story, science has now disproved. It was simply Descartes who was best known for arguing it, hence ‘Cartesian’. [20]"There's too much at stake. If they're right, it doesn't matter how we treat animals, or each other." YozavadEvolution provides empathy and there are plenty of moral developed in the realm of philosophy that do no require religion. Codes of law often are secular in nature, yet provide a moral code. A double standard is philosophical moral concept. By recognizing double standards against animals we can treat animals with greater respect and equality. " All that matters is efficiency. It's survival of the fittest." YozavadMorals and empathy are part of survival of the fittest. A Chimpanzee with no morals nor empathy will become a social outcast and be naturally selected out. That chimpanzee will not reproduce nor will his/her genes be passed on."I do believe it's plausible that scientists may discover something that discounts Darwin's theory. " YozavadIf Darwin's theory is falsified, it will be by another scientific theory. "Question: Stupidape, I assume you're not a Vulcan. Other than, "give me the facts only" world view, why do you WANT "atheistic evolution" to be true?" YozavadFirst, I don't think it is a matter of what I want. I seek the truth and I think atheism and evolution are true and God and creationism are false constructs. Second, I think religion is responsible for many immoral deeds.I think religion is responsible for at least in part:A. The WWII 3rd Reich holocaust of millions of JewsB. Much suffering to animalsC. OverpopulationD. Devaluing of the environment and scienceE. Countless atrocities including human sacrificesF. Finally, I think there is a good chance that religion will cause a premature end of the world in one of three ways:a. Running out of resources due to overpopulation and devaluing of science.b. World War III nuclear apocalypse over religious groundsc. Neglecting global climate change until we reach a Venus scenario. This is why it is my opinion that religion is immoral and must be resisted at every turn. Thanks for debating.Sources.17. http://greatergood.berkeley.edu...18. http://www.telegraph.co.uk...19. http://science.sciencemag.org...20. https://richarddawkins.net...