Capitalism Is Bad

In the second round, you shoot down many straw men, even in your first paragraph. Firstly, you state that I made the claim that the poor benefit just as much as the rich from capitalism. I never made this claim, I said that the poor and rich both benefited from capitalism, just in different capacities. The poor are generally better off than they would be without capitalism, and the rich benefit greatly. You also misunderstood exactly what I meant in regards to the poor living well. The poor do live well compared to how they would live under pre-industrial situations. Compared to the very wealthy, the poor might not live well. The poor share many luxuries in the US- including housing, food, heat, microwaves, TV's, books (if they please) music players, and other such entertainment / non necessary devises. Indeed, take a trip into the inner city of say- Saint Louis. I have. Then take a trip into the areas where the free market hasn't realized itself yet, or is outright denied. Take a trip to North Korea, many African nations, look around at the PRC, go back in time to Pre-Industrial France, or check out the starving masses of the USSR. None of the examples I gave are examples of free market capitalism. While the PRC is moving toward more capitalistic tendencies, they still have many systems of command style regulation. They have more than 100 regulative ministries, and still try to control their economy though both direct and indirect ways. African nations have yet to realize free market capitalism. Pre-Industrial France was mostly lords and serfs, and the USSR was socialist. In countries moving into industrialization it is true that sometimes capitalist industry moves into the countries. This is not a negative thing. Sure, in comparison to the wages we receive right now the wages do seem low. In fact, these wages are often higher than market value in that nation. Even if they are not receiving above market value for such, they went into a mutual agreement. They are not taking advantage of them, you assume that all people besides the evil, elite capitalists are stupid. While not everybody makes rational decisions, people should have the right to make decisions as to what they see is right. If they would like to work for minimum wage then they can do that if that is what they wish. If they would like to advance themselves, they must go to a country where capitalism has succeeded and then go into a more skilled occupation, one not everybody can do. I notice you bring up the idea of 'the capitalists' 'helping out' the 'poor' with issues of health care, education, etc. I think this very idea of 'helping out' to be wrong. What happened to hard work? Why is it the duty of the rich to help out the poor and not the duty of the poor to try to help themselves? We live in a world of infinite desires with finite resources. The only fair way to allocate these resources would be capitalism. Capitalism allows people to succeed or fail based on their own merit. Socialism allows everybody to fail, regardless of how hard they try. There is no incentive for actual hard labor, why try when everybody is the same? What is there to strive for? Your socialism is an idea and nothing more. You use the no true Scotsman fallacy again, saying that no true socialist nation would..... That is how things work out in the real world, outside of your idealistic fantasies. In the real world, communist nations and socialist nations failed to hold up to the optimistic Marxist philosophy, proving Marxist philosophy wrong again and again. I am close to some people that work for jobs with no real profit motive. The job is a job where you will make the same amount of money, little money. The greatest incentive is to work the least possible, just to get by. He does not enjoy working for the simple sake of knowing his fellow man has the ability to enjoy a clean building. This problem could easily be solved with a simple management solution. This problem can not be solved in socialism or communism, as work like this is the standard of both systems. To expand on healthcare. Capitalists very much want you to get better. Why is this? Because we are all Capitalists in a real capitalist country. We all are acting in order to better ourselves in the best way possible. The invisible hand of the market drives this. Some prosper, some prosper less than others. You have your own rational self interest in mind regarding healthcare. While you can not expect a handout, you can earn enough money to help yourself. Please do not bring up the example of the uninsured in the US, because the vast majority of US helathcare is NOT an example of capitalist healthcare- in fact, it's quite the opposite. I agree that capitalism does not allow all people to prosper. No system can allow all people to prosper given unlimited wants and limited resources. Capitalism, however, allows some people to prosper, and a great deal of people to prosper at different levels (There's a large middle class in the US. They have prospered just as the rich have, just to a lesser extent) Socialism does not allow this progression. In socialism, everybody is the same. You are only free to stay the same as your neighbor in socialism. In capitalism, you are free to do anything you please so long as you are able to do them. People who are unable to do those things are unable to do whatever they want, but that's simply because they can't do them. Socialism doesn't allow for the prosperity you might see in the upper class, or even most of the middle class. Socialism allows you to remain same. Socialism has no incentive to work, outside of theoretical incentives that do not transcend into the real world. Socialism is anti-freedom, you do not have the freedom or the means to make what you want of yourself, you have the 'freedom' to be your neigbour.