Does God Exist? Part 3

* Like you said, I thought about all the things you wrote, and these are my conclusions: An action is good when: -It does good for you, and doesn't affect others, or affects neutrally. -If does good for you AND for others -When you do something good for others, but you do not gain anything from it, except happiness that you did a good thing. This is not extremely clear, but I think you can understand my point. To define what action is bad (I prefer not to use the word evil), just replace 'good' with 'bad' in the three situations. 'Denial of a belief is not helpful unless you can offer an alternate explanation from your denial.' - I disagree. If many people think Bob killed himself, but the policemen find evidence that he was murdered, if the policemen won't find out who killed Bob or how or when etc, it's not valid to say he wasn't murdered at all, but because it IS important to answer those questions, I have tried my best to do that. I think we are doing pretty good in our moral and meaning discussion, though we strongly disagree on many things. Remember the Bella god? Then if someone puts this claim on the table, I think it's his responsibility to prove why it does exist. You don't have to present arguments why Bella doesn't exist.. You gave me very unconvincing arguments on why you believe in God. To use the Bob example, it's like you say: well, it's easier for me to accept that Bob killed himself because it makes sense to me that Bob was a suicidal person, so Bob killed himself. It's ridiculous. I know. I gave many reasons along this debate to support my claim. You gave none, when you said it, so I was just saying it's not valid. Atheism is a rejection of belief. You can say I see proof in Theism. Even my arguments on why God doesn't exist, rely on religious claims. There is a difference between not seeing proof in something, between seeing proof in something that contradicts something else. I even explained it to you: Nobody ever became atheist because he read a book and says:' well, atheists define morality better, so I want to be an atheist.' it's never ever that. It comes from rejection. Think of it that way: pretend God doesn't exist. Can you bring proof now to Atheism? And scientists don't always have to give an alternative hypothesis if they reject the current one. If they see something doesn't make sense, or contradicts itself, it doesn't magically make them find the 'right' hypothesis. They usually do, but if they don't it doesn't make the hypothesis they rejected right. Actually, in police, they do it all the time. They can find a man murdered, and based on information they have they can reject the fact that the man was murdered in a gang rival. If they don't find why, it doesn't mean he might have been murdered in a gang rival. Well, let's start that there is a big difference between immoral and amoral. Now you reject DNA ? :) Just kidding, of course. DNA can't force you to do things. I didn't really understand what you wrote, an example would be nice. These atheist immoral people weren't immoral BECAUSE they were atheists, but because of other non related reasons, unlike some theists, who I find immoral BECAUSE of that very reason (the KKK example), I think we finished this topic. 'I can see why people want to believe they control their own lives' - oh, so God controls, to your opinion all of our lives? If God controls everyone's life, then why do babies sometimes die at birth? Why are there tornadoes? Accidents? Or is God just a sadistic evil person ? Not exactly. Even if Gravity doesn't make sense to someone, there is just enough proof for him to 'have' to 'accept' it. The problem with racism is the actions. It's the laws. It's the hate speeches. If a man hates black people and thinks they're lesser then he is, it MUST reflect in his behavior, unless he doesn't really think that. A man like that can't help a black man who needs help, can't be friends with them, etc. I said that MOST polygamist women are women who are forced into it. Because polygamous relationships are not normal in our society, we still have to figure out about this topic. I will watch the ABC documentary, to learn more. We need to see, in every case, why do these women want to be in that sort of relationship (I assume we're taking about one man many women relationship), and more. If those women do find charm in that kind of relationship,what can I tell you? I think it's very much not for me, but maybe it is for them, and we should respect that. Yes, you are right, and in these many cases there isn't good or bad. 'Americans, Russians, Egyptians, Koreans, Chinese hurt people too. Every society hurts people, and every society has different ideas about how to fix it'- you are being very general. If you will bring me an example I could answer. CHRISTIANITY QUESTIONS *'the Christian god makes more sense to me than any other religions.' - Have you studied various religions before you reached your conclusion? *"You said that Christianity exists for many years, and if it wasn't true, it would have disappeared." I did not mean this to be an argument for Christianity being truer than Buddhism or Islam. It is an argument for why Christianity is a more realistic belief than Bella, Ra, Odin, or the flying spaghetti monster.' It's great that you didn't mean it, but that's exactly what you said! This argument states that a religion which isn't true, disappears It's wrong. *A man who is good, is simply a man who doesn't mean to hurt anyone. My point is, that according to Christianity, God separates Christians from everybody else, and rewards them for picking right the God that makes sense to them the most (your words), and makes the other suffer. To me it looks a lot like the Nazi ideology. *You actually think raping your daughter is equivalent to stealing an apple ?? A girl who is raped by her father is hurt MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE than a store owner you just stole an apple from. If we're all sinners, and sin is sin, then why do you get locked up in jail for killing, and nothing when you lie to your friend ? According to your point of view, it doesn't matter how much we sin, or how we sin. God doesn't even care about morals, he just gave them as a proposal, but said; hey, I know none of you will be able to follow all my rules. If a teacher gives a test with a few questions you can't possibly answer, then the grade is meaningless, isn't it? *Well, technically, a man can lock himself in the room, and do nothing except clap his hands and avoid human contact, for the rest of his life. He would NEVER sin! Is this what god wants? And actually, you can choose not to breath, but then you'll die. Can God punish people for talking? We choose to talk. *If God punished himself, then he did something wrong. So God isn't perfect.. right? another arguments: *Can a baby sin? From which age can you sin according to Christianity? *If we are all sinners and all sins are the same, then why don't we all have the same lives? To my understanding, if something good happens, its because of God, so why does God choose to randomly do good things (bring money, health etc) to one person and do bad things for another person (death, sickness, loss)? *There is a great quote, I don't remember who's, that says: 'When I was a kid, I wanted a bicycle, so I prayed and prayed every night, but I never got a bicycle, and then I realized God doesn't work like that, so I stole a bicycle and then prayed to God so he will forgive me.' - According to Christianity a person can sin and do horrible things, but it is OK and forgiven if he believes in God. You said it is easy to misunderstand God. So what if someone misunderstands God and does horrible things, but still believes in him and think he's doing fine? Is he worthy of heaven, too? *If God loves us so much, why doesn't he show himself up, to save everyone from hell? I have only a few minutes to turn in my entry, so it is not edited. I'm sorry if there are mistakes and unclear sentences.