May Regular Tournament: God Exists

Well thanks.Saying "I don't know, therefore God exists" is not very reasonable and does not help your argument. I want you (and the readers of this debate) to keep this in mind.I also want you to keep in mind that what's "generally accepted in the scientific community" is not always right. It was once generally accepted that the Earth was flat, and you could fall off if you went over the edge. This debate is not about what is the most popular idea as to what happened before or to cause the Big Bang, this debate is about who can present the most reasonable, valid argument for their case. If something is "generally accepted," it doesn't mean it's correct, it means it's... generally accepted.You explaining that the observable universe had a beginning is irrelevant, as I agree with you. My point is that whatever was before that and outside of the calculated 92 billion light year radius (540,833,534,332,891,911,238,367.931281 Miles) [1] of the universe, is infinite.Here is an article that explains how infinity can be possible [2]. When we're talking about the creation of the observable universe, it is more reasonable to believe that the universe formed (by natural means) at a point in infinite space and energy, over the idea that it formed from nothing. Nothing cannot create something, and I'm assuming that's your point, so you're just blindly asserting God created something from nothing, however my point is "nothing" doesn't and never exist(ed). As I showed before, energy is infinite, so at the very least, our universe formed inside infinite energy and space. A large group of astrophysics discussed (somewhat) this topic in 2013 [3] and basically concluded that it's unreasonable to rule out the possibility of infinity. Considering it hasn't been "proved" to be "real," I can't assert that infinity exists, however it does line up and cooperate with pretty much everything on a grand scale.There is a difference between the universe and everything else. A small article (that I recommend reading) explains this [4], and the realistic possibility that space and time is infinite, and our universe is one of an infinite amount of others in space and time. You say quantum fluctuations can only occur inside the universe, but this is a simple misunderstanding, as the universe does not exist of "everything," but is merely a bubble inside "everything." You practically admit that quantum fluctuations can occur in the universe (everything in existence, your definition), so therefore they can occur in actually everything in existence, as everything is infinite.You claim your burden of proof is to prove that God created the universe. You misinterpreted the meaning of the "universe," and asserted that the universe is a finite bubble of space-time, when in reality, space-time is not finite, and extends further and earlier than our universe, and our universe is simply one of an infinite amount of universes [5] (see #1) in an infinite amount of space-time.So to conclude the creation of the universe topic - You have not shown that infinity is impossible. I have shown that it is possible (although I have not proved that it EXISTS, I have shown that it is possible). By you not being able to prove infinity is impossible, you have not disproved any theory relating to the creation of the universe in the infinite space-time. Due to this fact, asserting that God created the universe (or even time itself) is simply incorrect, and is not backed by anything at all. You have failed to prove that God was the cause of the universe, as all you've done is assert that because we aren't 100% on what happened pre-Big Bang, it was God. That is not evidence nor proof supporting the existence of an intelligent being that is the supernaturally powerful, transcendent cause of the universe. All you did was assert that nothing existed before OUR universe, therefore it was God that created it. That isn't evidence at all, and most likely incorrect (about the nothing part - space and energy have existed forever)."Thus, the universe had a cause, and that cause is God." - Like I said before, saying "I don't know, therefore God exists" is not evidence. You have failed to prove God's existence. Even if you could 100% disprove everything I said, your main argument is that because we don't know how the observable universe (or space-time, if you were able to prove it is finite) came into existence, it was God. That's nothing more than a theory.Now, on to the ontology.My apologies about referring to the Bible, however my point still stands, and you didn't even attempt to dispute it. I fully explained how *new* ideas are created, and although I see what you're getting at, that *simple* ideas are impossible to dream up over complex ideas, all I have to do to dispute your claim is explain how it was possible to come up with the idea of God "an intelligent, supernatural transcendent cause of the universe" without actually witnessing it. And I'll do that quickly, in one second.First, let's quickly go over the definition of simple and complex ideas. As John Locke kindly puts, "though we all know what blue looks, no one could give a definition of it, so it qualifies as a simple idea" [6]. A cat is not a simple idea, as it is made up of colours, textures, motions, noises, etc. ....Dare I say it? God is not a simple idea, as it is made up of different qualities as well.An unknown higher power. There, I did it. God is intelligent - something humans can grasp the idea of and conclude through experiences. Supernatural - simply beyond our levels of understanding nature and natural phenomena. Supernatural is a word used to describe something we can't explain, it isn't a "simple" idea. And finally, transcendent - being able to be outside of space-time is also not a simple idea, it's taking into account that we live inside space-time, and the possibility that before this existed, something else existed to create it. And of course the universe is not a simple idea. So God is in fact a complex idea, as there are many different parts that make the idea up, all which are obtainable from human experience.If you assert that anything imagined is true or false, then infinity must be necessarily true. I'd even go as far to say Infinity is a simple idea, whereas God is a complex one, and according to your own logic, Infinity is more possible than God. I already explained how God can be imagined through human experience of different elements, but can infinity? Infinity does not have an end [7], therefore we cannot define where that end is. Infinity is not a measurable quantity, so we cannot define how much infinity there is.Either way, you basically contradicted yourself with this argument. If God could exist, so could infinity, as both are ideas. So that basically negates your entire argument about God creating the universe, as space-time is necessarily infinite. However the thing that also kills this argument is that God is not a simple idea, as I've shown.ConclusionIt seems as though you focused your entire anti-fluctuation argument on the premise that the observable universe consists of everything in existence, when in reality, it's more than reasonable to believe that the observable universe is, well, just that - only what we can observe - and there is most likely infinite space and time outside of (and before) the universe. You being unable to disprove this (and even if you were able to) shows that you definitely failed to prove the existence of an intelligent, supernatural, transcendent being. Asserting something exists because we aren't 100% on the answer has proved to be incorrect every single time in the past, so it's reasonable to conclude that the assertion of a God is simply a plug to fill the hole while we search for the actual answer. Here's something [5] to explain more about this, and although it does get into Christianity, it explains how ancient Gods have stopped being worshipped because there's no evidence for them, as well as reasoning behind the naturally occurring phenomena that the civilization was worshipping as a "God" when they didn't know what it was.God is nothing more than a complex idea based on human experience. Infinity is more of a simple idea than God is.Your two arguments have not helped the idea of God. Asserting that God created the universe because we aren't 100% on what was the actual cause is not evidence. On top of that, you failed to grasp that the universe could very well not be the only thing in existence, and there is space that goes on forever outside of our universe. I agree that our universe had a beginning, but space, time, and energy in general is infinite. And as I showed before, throwing God at an unanswered question has happened too many times in the past, and has been 100% refuted every single time. Your other argument makes the false assumption that God is a simple idea, when it is actually not, and can be imagined through personal experience with real life situations.Thanks a lot for the debate, and thanks a lot to whoever got the time to read all this. I won't tell the voters to vote for me because I want them to make their own decision.Sources[1] http://www.space.com... [2] http://gizmodo.com... [3] http://www.livescience.com... [4] http://www.livescience.com... [5] http://godisimaginary.com... [6] http://www.sparknotes.com... [7] https://www.mathsisfun.com...