The Problem of Evil (PoE)

Seeing its the last round I shall not be providing any new material, and will only be going over some previous points. You need good to have evilPro says. .. "While this only deals with a tiny part of my overall point, even then it butchers it. I am not saying that good and evil are the same, rather that there is no logical incompatibility of good existing without evil, and if God exists, an all-good being would be the embodiment of that. "I never argued that good can't exist without evil, what I have clearly argued is that evil NEEDS good to exist. I also never argued that evil is the absence of good, but rather that when something is in contradiction or opposition to the good its "evil". I think we have both good reason and it stands unrefuted that evil needs good to exist. And Pro needs evil to exist and therefore needs good to exist in order for their argument to work. The Problem of GoodPro says. .. "Even if I were to concede that I had to provide an ontological basis for good (which I have argued against with the points I have made throughout), I gave a reason for thinking that good exists. "Well I would say yes, you do have to have an ontological basis for the good, since your argument depends on real evil existing and therefore needs a real good to exist. Pro says. .. "Taking the example of preventing babies from suffering, I pointed out that many moral theories see this as a good, even if for different reasons (for the utilitarian it prevents pain, for the consequentialist not acting would be horrendous, etc. ) Con responds that I confuse moral knowledge with ontology,"We could talk about having knowledge of invisible unicorns but no one would take this seriously cause we don't really believe they exist in the first place. Like wise Pros granting that we can have knowledge of the good implies that there is a real actual good to know about in the first place. As I said before, If God exists, we have the good actually existing as God himself. I will leave it up to the voters to decide if Pro was able to provide an argument that shows that an actual good exists absent God or if Pro merely conflates the existence of the good with the knowledge of the good. As such I still press my argument that says. .. .1) If God exists then good exists2) Evil exists (pros argument)3) Evil can only exist if good exists (logically necessary)4) Good exists (From p2 + p3)5) Therefore God exists (from p1 + p4)Pros HypothesisPro hypothesis says. .. "If there were an all-powerful and all-good God, then there would not be any evil in the world unless that evil is logically necessary for an adequately compensating good. "I hardly think I have strawed man Pros hypothesis here, remember its says IF God exists. That's a pretty big IF. This leaves the door open to two options. .. .1) God does exist or2) God does not existI have gone into detail considering both propositions as true, hence my "assumptions". I looked at Pros argument both with the assumption that God does exist and also with the assumption that God does not exist. One of these assumptions is correct. As such I reject the charge where Pro says. .. "Dismissing that gratuitous evils exist by having God as a necessary, foundational assumption is Con’s approach here, which is to argue in a circle. "Pro is being a bit mis-leading here, I am not rejecting gratuitous evils just because of a previous assumption that God exists. What I am arguing for is that gratuitous evils doesn't exist whether God exists or doesn't exist. As such Premise 3) of Pros argument in both cases in false. As I concluded in the last roundIf God exists, we have both a basis for the existence of the good and therefore evil can exist, but it would be logically impossible for gratuitous evil to exist. Therefore premise 3) of pros argument is false. If God does not exist, we have no basis for the existence of the good, thus evil can't exist nor can gratuitous evil exist. Therefore premise 2 & 3 of pros argument is false. And once again this is where I shall be leaving it. Closing remarksI had asked Unitedandy to give me a debate on his POE argument and they were gracious enough to grant me that request and I thank them for it.