All love is conditional, all relationships are exchanges.

"…you have put the burden upon yourself to prove that there are no examples of a mother loving her child regardless of what the child did or didn't do." Not true. My statement of a negative is a response to an implied positive on your part. By your logic atheists would be obliged to prove god does not exist, which they are not, as has been exhaustively covered elsewhere. It is not possible to prove a negative without complete knowledge, and the inability to prove a negative is not a proof of a positive. …But nice try though. :P :) "Well duh, this debate would be meaningless if that were the case there are always going to be physical conditional requirements for love to exist in the first place." So we agree. Heh, thank you for playing. Should I continue? I assume you want me to. :P "The real point of this debate and the task incumbent upon you is to prove that there are no relationships in the world between two people where their love and adoration for a child (parent, brother, sister, loved one) was unconditional in the sense that it was uninterrupted and existed regardless of any action that the recipient did or could have done." If I were to assume your burden which I am not, you had me until "…could have done". If nothing else it is possible to inflict brain damage on a person in such a way that they hate you. Many examples exist of brain trauma resulting in severe emotional disturbance. It's an unbreakable chain of reasoning. And well within "could have". "Love is more of a state of mind then just the emotions that result its presence." Now it's my turn to announce burden of proof issues. If you can prove that love is not an emotional state of mind, you will have secured for yourself a place in human history, as you will have shown the soul to exist, or at least room for it. I.E. Emotional sourcing outside the meat of the mind. "Indeed there are. But this isn't really the point of the debate, is it? I came here to argue that there are cases that have existed and indeed do exist today where true love / care has been unconditional and present regardless of any actions that were taken." Actions that were taken, not actions that could have been taken. My response is that anyone can be made to hate anyone else under the proper conditions. Just because those conditions are not met for a set of people, does not mean that those conditions and their results cannot exist. "You're too quick to equate love as a basic human emotion but really it's more complex then that." This is known as the Appeal to Ignorance (I think). Sure love is complex but just because we don't know about some of it doesn't mean its super natural. "I clumsily described it as a state of mind, but I think we can both agree (assuming you have been in love) that it's far more guided and persistent then being merely happy or sad." I've experienced love, but it was conditional. You're being underhanded. You're saying that if I don't believe that love is unconditional I've never ‘really' experienced love. I hope you do not presume to demean the validity of my emotions just because we disagree on their nature. Love is a state of mind. As above, if not, and you can prove it, you have fame waiting for you. "…specifically used to describe God's love for us. Which is ironic because that's assuming you fulfill the condition of believing and indeed following him in the first place or else it's off to hell for you." That irks me to no end. "This isn't to somehow suggest that their identity is somehow limited to their utility relative to you." Ahhh, I totally misunderstood. So I straw manned you via ignorance, my bad hehe. "I've seen that humans are capable of selflessness, compassion, and indeed love without conditions." Oh boy! Altruism FTW. Please provide me a single example of a selfless human act. :) I'll save you time, you cannot. All human action is either willful, and therefore in service of will and therefore desire, or is involuntary and outside the realm of judgment. This may be a whole other debate lol. "Another great round. Seems like you've had this argument before :)" Oh my, have I. I've got a whole book of this madness. Go put Sergent in lulu.com. :P I fancy myself a Sophist in the Greek sense, and I'm sure many feel I am in the modern sense. :) You're a treat to debate with. This site rocks.