The Existence of God

Introduction: Thank you Hiskid for the arguments that you presented, let’s get Round 3 started! I will organize my response in sections. I will have a section devoted to a rebuttal of each of Hiskid’s arguments, and a section devoted to rebutting any points that came up outside the arguments (General Rebuttal). I will then have a section devoted to the conclusion, concluding my Round 3 response. General Rebuttal: “As stated, the Bible is considered, for all intents and purposes, to be a viable source. This is important, as in order to prove anything's existence you need at least one thing: Some proof or evidence that they existed. You cannot observe something that hasn't manifested its existence in any way.” The Bible is not evidence that God exists, much like the Harry Potter series is not evidence that Hogwarts exists. The Bible is a viable source in reference to the Christian culture, but not evidence that its god exists. Rebuttal of A1: “This verse states that the entire Bible, or Scripture, is God breathed, or theopneustos, which means divinely inspired This is the only source in writing that we have in relation to God, and is therefore necessary in order to believe in him.” Do you have any evidence that the Bible is in fact God breathed at all? Just because it says so in a verse does not mean it is true much like the example I used earlier, the Harry Potter books are not evidence that Hogwarts exists. This topples the root of your argument, until you can prove that the Bible was divinely inspired and not just made up by some Bronze Age people this argument holds no weight. Hiskid ends his argument with some questions about the Bible, “The Lords word is flawless, or without error. This has yet to be disproven. This is why I said we needed to argue the legitimacy of the Bible. Since it is a source that I can use to prove God's existence, I have all I need right here. I assume that you meant that I could use it as a source to describe God? I'm not sure, because allowing the Bible would guarantee con a win.” The Christian concept of God as described in the Bible is flawless, but you have to prove that God actually exists first. We do not need to argue the legitimacy of the Bible, as I already said many times now, the Bible is a legitimate source to refer to the concept of the Christian God and their culture, but is not evidence of God’s existence. This would not guarantee you a win because the Bible is not a way to prove God exists, only a way to define the concept. (I think you meant Pro by the way). Rebuttal of A2: In this argument, Hiskid uses the standard causation argument which runs along the lines of, Since something cannot come out of nothing, something must have created the something and this something would have to be God. Which is why it is called the Causation Argument, something has to cause something. First of all, this is a God of the Gaps argument. I found that GotQuestions.org gave a good explanation for it, “The ‘God-of-the-gaps’ argument refers to a perception of the universe in which anything that currently can be explained by our knowledge of natural phenomena is considered outside the realm of divine interaction, and thus the concept of ‘God’ is invoked to explain what science is, as yet, incapable of explaining. In other words, only the ‘gaps’ in scientific knowledge are explained by the work of God, hence the name ‘God of the gaps.’ ” (1) This is a fallacy because every time a gap in knowledge is filled, the believer can move to the next gap. The game continues to infinite because human knowledge can never explain everything, therefore the argument is a logical fallacy of arguments from ignorance. (For more information visit (2)) Basically Hiskid is saying that, “In order to accept that something's exist, we need to think up something that breaks the "Rules…” By making the assumption that science has not found how something can come from nothing, Hiskid illogically fills in the gap with God. This by no way proves that God exists, and Hiskid has committed a logical fallacy. The second fallacy in Hiskid’s argument was how he tied it to the Christian God, “Who do we now that is Independently Existent, Eternal, and Omnipotent? I suppose you could argue ‘A god’, But since we are arguing for the existence of 1 God, The Christian God, I am going to say that this provides sufficient evidence to support his existence. Oh, and here is where scripture agrees. Colossians 1:16’ ‘For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.’” Even if Hiskid’s argument would have worked out, he would have had to prove that the god that caused the something from nothing was the Christian god, not the Greek or Roman or Hindu or Islamic, the Christian. Hiskid does this by citing more scripture, and makes the fallacy of believing that this proves the Christian god, this is not the case. In the Quran it says, “He created the heavens and Earth with truth. The day He says ‘Be!’ it is. His speech is Truth. The Kingdom will be His on the Day the Trumpet is blown, the Knower of the Unseen and the Visible. He is the All-Wise, the All-Aware.” (Surat al-An'am, 73) By Hiskid’s logic this should also prove that Allah was the god that created something out of nothing. I have identified at least two fallacies in this argument which defeats it. “I don't know about you, But I find it much easier to accept that a something that exists outside of the "Rules" created everything, rather than believing that everything already existed for no reason, and then began to change form until we got what we have.” I’m much more concerned about whether or not something is true, rather than if it is “easy to accept” or not. Conclusion: I have successfully defeated both of my opponent’s arguments and finished my Round 3 response. I look forward to Hiskid’s rebuttals and wish my opponent and anybody reading this the best of luck! Citations: http://www.gotquestions.org... http://rationalwiki.org...