From MMaralit at NIFL.gov  Fri Jan  4 08:17:34 2008
From: MMaralit at NIFL.gov (Maralit, Mary Jo)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 08:17:34 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1088] Reminder: Part 2 of Reading Assessment Webcast -
	Jan. 11, 2008
Message-ID: <4062487BDB6029428A763CAEF4E1FE5B180C51BB@wdcrobe2m03.ed.gov>

** Just a friendly reminder that registration is OPEN for the Reading
Assessment Webcast, Part 2 **

>From Assessment to Practice: Research-Based Approaches to Teaching Reading
to Adults
     Part 2: Specific Instructional Strategies for Fluency and Vocabulary

WHEN: Friday, January 11, 2008 

TIME:	       1:30 PM -  2:45 PM Eastern Time 
	 	12:30 PM -  1:45 PM Central Time 
	 	11:30 AM - 12:45 PM Mountain Time 
	 	10:30 AM - 11:45 AM Pacific Time 

Please join us for Part 2 of "From Assessment to Practice: Research-Based
Approaches to Teaching Reading to Adults" webcast. This follow-up webcast
will focus on specific instructional strategies for two other components of
reading, fluency and vocabulary. The presenters will show how all four
components provide a natural framework for assessing adult students' reading
ability, and how assessment results can lead seamlessly to a program of
instruction to improve students' reading.

REGISTRATION NOW OPEN
To register and for more information, please go to:
http://www.nifl.gov/nifl/webcasts/assesspractice2/webcast0111.html
Once you have registered, you will receive a confirmation email and a
reminder email before the event.

This seventy-minute webcast is a part two for the webcast presented on
September 28, 2007: From Assessment to Practice-Research-Based Approaches to
Teaching Reading  to Adults
<http://www.nifl.gov/nifl/webcasts/assesspractice/webcast0928.html>. The
main purpose of the first webcast was to present a compelling rationale for
the use of research-based principles for adult reading instruction. The
presenters used two components of reading, word analysis and comprehension,
as examples to illustrate research-based practices, focusing on specific
instructional strategies derived from the research. 

For more information, please contact info at nifl.gov or call 202-233-2025 or
visit us online at: http://www.nifl.gov/.

Thanks,
Jo Maralit
mmaralit at nifl.gov

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From gspangenberg at caalusa.org  Mon Jan  7 07:29:25 2008
From: gspangenberg at caalusa.org (Gail Spangenberg)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 07:29:25 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1089]  CAAL Releases New ESL Study
Message-ID: <CA2EFD1A-7541-42D3-B1C6-9C1A25681EAF@caalusa.org>


NEWS RELEASE (January 7, 2008 - NYC) -- The Council for Advancement  
of Adult Literacy today released PATHWAYS & OUTCOMES: TRACKING ESL  
STUDENT PERFORMANCE. It is a longitudinal study of adult ESL services  
at the City College of San Francisco (CCSF), completing a trilogy by  
CAAL about adult ESL service in community colleges. Its primary aim  
is to help those who plan and design community college ESL programs  
assess and develop effective services. But it will also help those  
who offer adult ESL services in other institutional settings, and  
policymakers and funding organizations. The authors note that CCSF's  
ESL program has features in common with many other community college  
programs, and point to the model's importance because so many ESL  
professionals across the country consider it to be "exemplary." It is  
both "a typical case and a best case of adult education ESL in the  
United States."

Steven Spurling and Sharon Seymour of the City College of San  
Francisco, and  CAAL's Forrest P. Chisman conducted the study. The  
report contains a wealth of highly detailed research information and  
analysis. It is groundbreaking in a number of respects. It may well  
be the most comprehensive, in-depth research ever conducted on any  
adult ESL program. It is based on College records tracking all  
students over a seven-year period who first enrolled in CCSF's credit  
and non-credit ESL programs in 1998, 1999, and 2000. More than 38,000  
non-credit and some 6600 credit ESL students make up the "cohort"  
that was examined. The primary focus is on persistence, learning  
gains, and transition to credit studies, and on the success in credit  
courses of non-credit ESL students. Major attention is given to the  
various features of CCSF's ESL program that affected student outcomes  
and pathways -- such as terms and hours of attendance, and program  
design and policy. CCSF's substantial data on "stop-outs" is also  
presented and analyzed in depth.

As the authors explain, PATHWAYS & OUTCOMES can be used and navigated  
in many different ways. It is organized to serve the needs of various  
kinds of readers. For some, the short Executive Summary will suffice.  
For others, selected chapters will be sufficient. Others will want to  
read the entire document and may be motivated to conduct additional  
analyses on their own.

This study was made possible by CAAL discretionary funds; a  
considerable amount of pro bono CAAL staff time and resources; and  
staff time, data, and computer resources provided by City College of  
San Francisco. Forrest Chisman was responsible for overall project  
direction. Steven Spurling (Institutional Research Officer, Office of  
Research, Planning, and Grants, CCSF) conducted the data analysis and  
had primary responsibility for interpretation of that analysis.  
Sharon Seymour (former Chair, ESL Department, CCSF) was  a key  
researcher in both of CAAL's prior ESL studies; she contributed to  
the study's design and interpretation of its findings. Her special  
insights into the College's ESL program helped shape findings about  
student performances and program features that influenced performance.

The report is available at no charge from the CAAL website  
(www.caalusa.org) as item ESL5 of the ESL section of the Publications  
page. It is optimized for printing and can be downloaded either as a  
single large document (212 pages) or in four smaller units. Bound  
copies of the publication can be purchased directly from CAAL  
(contact bheitner at caalusa.org for ordering instructions and price).

[The other two reports in this series are: "PASSING THE TORCH:  
Strategies for Innovation in Community College ESL" and "TORCHLIGHTS  
IN ESL: Five Community College Profiles." They are available from the  
CAAL website as items ESL2 and ESL4. Funding for the earlier reports  
came from the Hewlett Foundation, the Ford Foundation, CAAL  
discretionary funds from The McGraw-Hill Companies, and the Dollar  
General Corporation.]





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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Mon Jan  7 11:20:42 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 11:20:42 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1090]  ProLiteracy/COABE Northwest Regional Institute
Message-ID: <006c01c85149$41a0aa50$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Colleagues,
The following opportunity offers workshops on topics including using
data for program improvement and transitions and the GED.  Some of you
may be interested. 
Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
****************
Sharpen your.    
KNOWLEDGE       N        SKILLS        N      PERSPECTIVE
____________________________________________________________
Northwest Regional Institute 
  February 28-29, 2008 
University Place,    Portland, Oregon
Sponsored by ProLiteracy and COABE 
________________________________________________________________________
____ 
Featuring three intensive and interactive workshops:
N   Data Analysis for Program Decision-Making (Dollar
General/ProLiteracy Performance Accountability Initiative)
N   Models and Strategies for Adult Transitions
N   Student Retention Through Student Success
________________________________________________________________________
____________
Registration Deadline: February 3, 2008 
Registration information is located in the workshop descriptions below. 
Questions?   Please call   (315) 422-9121 ext. 283  or e-mail
<http://207.10.202.200/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://us.f329.mail.yah
oo.com/ym/Compose?To=prodev at proliteracy.org>  prodev at proliteracy.org.
________________________________________________________________
Site Information
University Place Hotel & Conference Center
310 SW Lincoln Street
Portland, Oregon
(866) 845-4647
http://www.pdx.edu/cegs/uplace.html
<http://207.10.202.200/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.pdx.edu/cegs
/uplace.html> 
Participants must make their own overnight accommodations. Contact
University Place and request a room in the ProLiteracy block. Book your
hotel reservation  before February 3rd  to receive the reduced room rate
of $99.00.
Onsite parking is available for Institute attendees. Parking fees based
on length of stay. Map and driving directions at
<http://207.10.202.200/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.pdx.edu/cegs
/uplace.html>    http://www.pdx.edu/cegs/uplace.html
________________________________________________________________________
_________________________
Schedule
Thursday, February 28
11:00 to 3:00 Registration
3:00 to 6:00 Sessions
6:30 to 7:30 Networking Reception
 
Friday, February 29
9:00 to 9:45 Breakfast Forum 
10:00 to 12:00 Sessions 
12:00 to 1:00 Lunch 
1:00 to 4:00 Sessions 
_______________________________________________________________________
Special Feature: Breakfast Forum with David Harvey, President,
ProLiteracy 
   
9:00 - 9:45 a.m., Friday, February 29    
Join David Harvey, president and CEO of ProLiteracy, for breakfast! Talk
with ProLiteracy staff about professional development and services that
you need to help your programs and students succeed; get updates on
national developments that affect your programs and students.  
________________________________________________________________________
__________________
Session #1

Program Management Workshop:
Data Analysis for Program Decision-Making 
(Module #2 of the Dollar General/ProLiteracy Performance Accountability
Initiative   . Note: You must be accepted into this program to attend
this free training. See "To Apply for Participation," below.) 
 
Do you have the information you need to:
n  Evaluate your program's performance? 
n  Identify and prioritize program improvement strategies?
n  Support winning grant proposals?
 In this second of three modules in the Dollar General/ProLiteracy
Performance Accountability Initiative, you will:
n  Review highlights of Module 1: Data Collection and Management
n  Think about how you use program data to improve your program
n  Compare and contrast how seven exemplary programs use data to make
program decisions
n  Practice analyzing program data and identifying trends
n  Identify strategies and outline a process for data-driven program
improvement
n  Assess how using team approaches can improve your program's "culture
of accountability and program  
                      improvement" 
n Explore the Initiative's online project wiki 
n Draft a plan to adapt and use promising data analysis and
decision-making practices over a nine-month period 
 
To apply for participation:
If you want your program to be a part of the Performance Accountability
Initiative, contact Marie Cora, Project Manager, at
<http://207.10.202.200/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://us.f329.mail.yah
oo.com/ym/Compose?To=mcora at proliteracy.org>  mcora at proliteracy.org for
more information and an application form.
Programs accepted in the Initiative project will receive information for
registering two people for Module Two: Data Analysis for Program
Decision-Making training. 
  
*The Performance Accountability Initiative, funded by the Dollar General
Literacy Foundation, provides training, online courses, electronic
resources, and stipends to participating programs. For more information,
contact Marie Cora, Project Manager, at    mcora at proliteracy.org
<http://207.10.202.200/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://us.f329.mail.yah
oo.com/ym/Compose?To=mcora at proliteracy.org> .
_______________________________________________________________________

Session #2
    
For program managers, coordinators, and instructional staff/volunteers: 
Models and Strategies for Adult Transitions 
Students succeed in your classrooms. 
Are they ready for what's next? Are you ready to help them?
 
Students who succeed in one academic environment may struggle in
another. They need support as they learn about new systems and develop
life skills so they can continue their education. For example, we know
that college pays off for GED holders, but research also shows that only
one-third of GED students go on to college, and just 10 percent finish
at least one year of postsecondary education. Less than 3 percent of all
adult learners earn an associate degree. (Source: J. H. Tyler,   The
Economic Benefits of the GED: Lessons from Recent Research , 2002).
 
In this workshop, you will:
n  Take a poignant, fun, and user-friendly trip through the research on
adult transitions
n  Identify important elements of transition programming
n  Apply the information to your program, design next steps, and get
feedback from colleagues
 
Presenter:   Cynthia Zafft, director, National College Transitions
Network, a project of World Education, Inc.
Registration fee:    $127 for ProLiteracy and COABE affiliates; $149 for
non-affiliates (Registration fee includes networking reception,
breakfast forum, and lunch.) 
To register  : Go to
https://www.proliteracy.org/external/mod2_form2.asp 
_______________________________________________________________________ 
Session #3
  


For program managers, trainers, and instructional staff/ volunteers:
Student Retention Through Student Success
 
How do your students' emotions and attitudes affect their ability to
"stay the course"?
How do your assessment practices impact students' retention?
 
Students are motivated when they see progress. Showing them that they
can be-and indeed, have been-successful supports their decision to stay
with a learning program. In this workshop, we'll talk about the supports
that affect adult student persistence, as identified by research from
the National Center for the Study of Adult Learning and Literacy
(NCSALL). We'll also apply these supports to your programs and
classrooms. 
 
In this workshop you will:
 
n Describe how students' self-efficacy influences their persistence 
n Identify research-based categories of support for students'
self-efficacy 
n Explore strategies to monitor students' progress toward meeting goals 
n Apply what you learned about self-efficacy and showing student
progress to a case study and your students.
Presenter:   Jane Greiner, professional development coordinator,
ProLiteracy
Registration fee:    $127 for ProLiteracy and COABE affiliates; $149 for
non-affiliates (Registration fee includes networking reception,
breakfast forum, and lunch.) 
To register  : Go to
https://www.proliteracy.org/external/mod2_form2.asp 
________________________________________________________________________
__________________
Registration Deadline: February 3, 2008.     Please register early! 
ProLiteracy reserves the right to cancel workshops with less than 12
participants. 
Questions?   Please call   (315) 422-9121 ext. 283  or e-mail
<http://207.10.202.200/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://us.f329.mail.yah
oo.com/ym/Compose?To=prodev at proliteracy.org>  prodev at proliteracy.org.
 
 
 
 
 
Marie Cora
 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
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From syoung at cal.org  Tue Jan  8 10:07:20 2008
From: syoung at cal.org (Sarah Young)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 10:07:20 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1091]  New Study on NRS Level Gain Using BEST Plus
Message-ID: <7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F03684033@MAIL.cal.local>

The Center for Applied Linguistics (CAL) is pleased to announce the
availability of our latest digest, "Effects of Instructional Hours and
Intensity of Instruction on NRS Level Gain in Listening and Speaking."
The digest reports on a descriptive study examining the relationship
between student performance on BEST Plus and NRS level gain and class
attendance. BEST Plus pretest and posttest data for nearly 7,000
examinees were analyzed to see how their performance at each National
Reporting System (NRS) educational functioning level varied according to
number of instructional hours and intensity of instruction. Results
showed that across all NRS educational functioning levels, the greater
the number of instructional hours, the higher the percentage of students
who made an NRS level gain. There was also a general trend toward
greater NRS level gain for students with high levels of instructional
intensity than for those with low instructional intensity. Intensity of
instruction had the greatest impact on students at the Beginning ESL
Literacy, Low Intermediate ESL, and Advanced ESL levels. To read the
full digest, you may view and download a complimentary copy from
http://www.cal.org/resources/digest/levelgain.html.

 

Other Online Resources from CAL

CAL is a private, nonprofit organization working to improve
communication through better understanding of language and culture. Our
Web site (www.cal.org <http://www.cal.org/> ) provides a wealth of
information on and access to many free resources. The following links
may be of particular interest:

 

Center for Adult English Language Acquisition (CAELA):
http://www.cal.org/caela -- Resources include briefs on a wide range of
topics in adult ESL education and research.

 

Literacy Education: http://www.cal.org/topics/le/ -- Resources include
the report from the National Literacy Panel and a report on adolescents
learning English as a second language.

 

Refugee Integration: http://www.cal.org/topics/ri/  -- Resources include
information about refugee populations coming to the United States. 

 


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From mcnutt at utk.edu  Tue Jan  8 12:42:18 2008
From: mcnutt at utk.edu (McNutt Jr, William R)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 12:42:18 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1092]  Position Announcement
Message-ID: <0913EC48F2B05C4FBE4878BAFCABBFEC0171CD68@KFSVS2.utk.tennessee.edu>

Reminder:  The Center for Literacy Studies at the University of
Tennessee, Knoxville, is currently soliciting applications for the
position of Center Director.  The last date to submit resumes for
consideration is January 16, 2008.

 

The Director oversees the work of the Center, raises funds through
grants and contracts, writes grant proposals and develops budgets,
approves expenditures of funds, negotiates subcontracts, hires and
discharges personnel, acts as principal investigator for grants, and
oversees a staff of thirty to assure project work is conducted in
accordance with contractual agreements with outside funders. Working
collaboratively with the Center's Senior Management Team, the Director
develops strategic plans, markets the Center, and integrates work with
the College of Education, Health and Human Sciences. The Director
oversees a budget that is in excess of $3 million annually. Currently,
major funders include the National Institute for Literacy, the Tennessee
Department of Labor and Workforce Development, the Tennessee Department
of Education, and the National Science Foundation.

 

For a complete job description, please see our on-line posting at
http://www.cls.utk.edu/director.htm

 

Bill McNutt

Technology Coordinator

UT Center for Literacy Studies

 

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From tsticht at znet.com  Mon Jan 14 15:44:39 2008
From: tsticht at znet.com (tsticht at znet.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:44:39 -0800
Subject: [Assessment 1093]  Celebrating Cora Wilson Stewart
Message-ID: <1200343479.478bc9b7846f9@webmail.znet.net>


January 17, 2008 is the Birthday of Cora Wilson Stewart:
The Queen Mother of Adult Literacy Education in the United States.

Tom Sticht
International Consultant in Adult Education

Quote: "The elderly lady gently took the letter that she had just dictated.
Because she was blind, she had to be shown where to begin her signature.
Her hands trembled so that her writing, which had been so graceful earlier
in life, seemed shaky and uneven. Determined to complete the task, she
doggedly persevered; after carefully completing the signature, she rested
her pen." End quote. (Nelms, 1997, p. 3).

Only a few years later, in December of 1958, blind and infirm, Cora Wilson
Stewart, founder of the Moonlight Schools of Kentucky "for the emancipation
of adult illiterates," passed away.  Her death came just shy of half a
century after she had started the Moonlight Schools, which historian Wanda
Dauksza Cook (1977) said "
might well be classified as the official
beginning of [adult] literacy education in the United States." (p. 13).

Starting the Moonlight Schools for adult illiterates in Rowan County,
Kentucky, was the first of a long list of innovations for adult literacy
education that Stewart introduced: the first newspaper designed especially
for adult literacy students, called the Rowan County Messenger;  the first
reading series for adults comprised of three Country Life Readers; the
Soldier's First Book used during World War I, and the Mother's First Book:
A First Reader for Home Women.

In her approach to teaching adult literacy, Stewart explicitly recognized
the importance of not using materials for adults that were designed for
children. All of her materials integrated the teaching of literacy with the
teaching of important knowledge content in farming, healthy living, civics,
home economics, financial management, parenting and other functional
contexts. As Stewart (1920) stated, "
each lesson accomplished a double
purpose, the primary one of teaching the pupil to read, and at the same
time that of imparting instruction in the things that vitally affected him
(sic) in his daily life" (p. 71).

Striking out in a crusade against adult illiteracy in Rowan County Kentucky,
Stewart went on to convince President Hoover to create the first National
Advisory Committee on Illiteracy, she initiated a National Illiteracy
Crusade, chaired for five times the Illiteracy Section of the international
World Conference of Education Associations, spoke before the national
Democratic party convention in 1920, spoke at numerous meetings across the
United States, reached hundreds of thousands of listeners through radio
broadcasts, and inspired numerous other states to initiate campaigns to
combat adult illiteracy.

Along with her national and international accomplishments, perhaps one of
the most important things that Stewart did was to develop a simple method
of teaching adult learners how to write their names. She developed a
special tablet that had soft paper into which students' names were etched.
Then the students used thin paper to trace their names over and over until
they could write their names unaided.

Later this simple technique was picked-up by Wil Lou Gray of South Carolina
in her initiation of campaigns to teach illiterate adults to write their
names. In turn Gray taught this technique to Septima Poinsette Clark who
used it in the Citizenship Schools of the Southern Christian Leadership
Conference. Through this work, over 700,000 African Americans were taught
to write their names for voter registration, and this political empowerment
helped to stimulate the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 60s which
would eventually transform the political landscape of the entire Nation.

Cora Wilson Stewart was profoundly aware of the importance that learning to
sign their names had for the illiterate adults of the Moonlight Schools. It
was their means of escaping the stigma and humiliation of making their mark.
With her understanding of the importance of being able to write one's name,
it is no surprise that in her older age, and blind in both eyes, Stewart
clung to the power of the pen and insisted on signing her own name on
letters and important documents up to the end of her life.

The year 2008 marks a half century since Cora Wilson Stewart's death, but we
celebrate the 133 years since her birth on January 17, 1875, and the years,
approaching the century mark, following her founding of the Moonlight
Schools for adult literacy learners. No other person before or since has
more forcefully fought for, and won, the right to literacy education for
adults of all stripes: men and women; young and old, whites, blacks,
Hispanics, and Native Americans; prisoners, soldiers, urban, and country
folk.

On January 17, 2008 adult literacy learners and educators celebrate the life
of Cora Wilson Stewart, the woman who above all others may rightly be called
the Queen Mother of Adult Literacy Education in the United States.

References

Cook, Wanda Dauksza (1977). Adult Literacy Education in the United States.
Newark, DE: International Reading Association.

Nelms, Willie (1997). Cora Wilson Stewart Crusader Against Illiteracy.
London: McFarland &  Company.

Stewart, Cora Wilson (1922). Moonlight Schools for the Emancipation of Adult
Illiterates. New York: E. P. Dutton & Co.

Thomas G. Sticht
International Consultant in Adult Education
2062 Valley View Blvd.
El Cajon, CA 92019-2059
Tel/fax: (619) 444-9133
Email: tsticht at aznet.net




From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Tue Jan 15 10:03:22 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 10:03:22 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1094]  Save the Date!!
Message-ID: <054f01c85787$c6a988e0$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Discussion Announcement 
Dear Colleagues, 
I'm pleased to announce the following Guest Discussion, which will be
held during the week of February 4, 2008.
Topic: 
Strategies for Innovation in Community College ESL
Guest Participants: 
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor and Director
Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
University of Maryland Baltimore County
 
Forrest P. Chisman 
Executive Vice President
CAAL (Council for Advancement of Adult Literacy)
New York
Recommended preparations for this discussion:
Passing the Torch:  Strategies for Innovation in Community College ESL 
(Executive Summary) 
by Forrest P. Chisman and JoAnn Crandall
CAAL February 20, 2007
16 pages
http://www.caalusa.org/eslexecsummary.pdf
 
Passing the Torch:  Strategies for Innovation in Community College ESL 
(Full Report)
by Forrest P. Chisman and JoAnn Crandall
February 26, 2007
163 pages
http://www.caalusa.org/eslpassingtorch226.pdf
 
Excerpts from the Executive Summary of Passing the Torch:
 
[Adult education English as a Second Language (ESL) instruction is an
essential national education service, but the outcomes of most ESL
programs are by no means as great as they should and can be - in terms
of learning gains, retention, and transitions to further education. p.
4]
 
[.According to the NRS, the overwhelming majority of ESL students enter
programs at the two lowest levels, and NRS reports that only about 36
percent of ESL students advance one level per year. Longitudinal
research prepared for CAAL by two community colleges indicates that only
a small percentage of ESL students are enrolled in programs for as long
as four semesters (the equivalent of two years or less) - either
consecutively or at any time. As a result, few ESL students experience
significant learning gains from adult education ESL programs. Moreover,
only about 10 percent of non-credit ESL students make transitions to
credit ESL, and an even smaller percentage make transitions to college
academic or vocational programs. p. 5]
 
[The problems of learning gains, persistence, and transitions clearly
call for serious attention. Fortunately, at least some community
colleges and other ESL providers have devised innovative and effective
strategies to address them. This report is based on a two-year study of
ESL service at community colleges by the Council for Advancement of
Adult Literacy (CAAL). The study draws on the authors' extensive
knowledge of and exposure to dozens of community colleges and ESL
programs through other studies, but it is based primarily on an in-depth
examination of the innovative strategies adopted by five community
colleges identified by ESL experts and their peers as exemplary in their
provision of adult ESL service... p. 5]
 
 <http://www.caalusa.org/pathways-outcomes/pathways-outcomesfull.pdf>
PATHWAYS & OUTCOMES: Tracking ESL Student Performance 
by Steven Spurling, Sharon Seymour, and Forrest Chisman
CAAL January 2008
212 pages
http://www.caalusa.org/pathways-outcomes/pathways-outcomesfull.pdf  
Note: Alternate printing/display option for this title:
 
<http://www.caalusa.org/pathways-outcomes/pathways-outcomes1-tochapt2.pd
f> pathways-outcomes1 chapters 1 to 2.pdf
 
<http://www.caalusa.org/pathways-outcomes/pathways-outcomes2-chapt3-5.pd
f> pathways-outcomes2 chapters 3 to 5.pdf
 
<http://www.caalusa.org/pathways-outcomes/pathways-outcomes3-chapt6-8.pd
f> pathways-outcomes3 chapters 6 to 8.pdf
 
<http://www.caalusa.org/pathways-outcomes/pathways-outcomes4-chapt9-10.p
df> pathways-outcomes4 chapters 9 to 10.pdf 
This report is a longitudinal study of adult ESL services at the City
College of San Francisco (CCSF). Its primary aim is to help those who
plan and design community college ESL programs assess and develop
effective services. But it will also help those who offer adult ESL
services in other institutional settings, and policymakers and funding
organizations. The authors note that CCSF's ESL program has features in
common with many other community college programs, and point to the
model's importance because so many ESL professionals across the country
consider it to be "exemplary." It is both "a typical case and a best
case of adult education ESL in the United States." This groundbreaking
report contains a wealth of highly detailed research information and
analysis. It may well be the most comprehensive, in-depth research ever
conducted on any adult ESL program. It is based on College records
tracking all students over a seven-year period who first enrolled in
CCSF's credit and non-credit ESL programs in 1998, 1999, and 2000. More
than 38,000 non-credit and some 6600 credit ESL students make up the
"cohort" that was examined. The primary focus is on persistence,
learning gains, and transition to credit studies, and on the success in
credit courses of non-credit ESL students. Major attention is given to
the various features of CCSF's ESL program that affected student
outcomes and pathways -- such as terms and hours of attendance, and
program design and policy. CCSF's substantial data on "stop-outs" is
also presented and analyzed in depth. The report is organized to serve
the needs of various kinds of readers. 
 
 
Related resources of interest:
 
Challenges in Assessing for Post-Secondary Readiness
Policy Brief
by Daryl F. Mellard and Gretchen Anderson 
Division of Adult Studies, Center for Research on Learning, University
of Kansas
December 4, 2007 
This Policy Brief examines the major assessments in use today to measure
adult learning gains and determine student placements - e.g., BEST,
CASAS, TABE, COMPASS, ASSET, and ACCUPLACER - in terms of their uses and
how they well they align with postsecondary education entry
requirements. Special attention is given to the GED. The authors
identify several problems and challenges as well as recommendations to
resolve them. 
http://www.caalusa.org/content/assessmentmellard.pdf
 
Transitions:  Linkages between Adult Education and Community Colleges
Multiple resources from CAAL (Council for Advancement of Adult Literacy)
 <http://www.caalusa.org/publications.html#trans>
http://www.caalusa.org/publications.html#trans
 
Transitions to Post-Secondary Education
Multiple resources from NCSALL (National Center for the Study of Adult
Learning and Literacy)
http://www.ncsall.net/index.php?id=106
 
 
     
 
 
 
Marie Cora
 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
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From djrosen at comcast.net  Sat Jan 19 15:30:39 2008
From: djrosen at comcast.net (David J. Rosen)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:30:39 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1095]  J. Michael Parker Award
References: <LYRIS-444-353671-2008.01.18-19.13.51--djrosen1#comcast.net@lists.scoe.net>
Message-ID: <72DBEC6B-0E27-460F-8AC8-FD90B321F538@comcast.net>

Colleagues,

Forwarded for Eric Jacobson to many discussion lists. Sorry if you  
get duplicate posts. Please get the word out to eligible colleagues.

From: ejonline at comcast.net
Date: January 18, 2008

National Reading Conference - J. Michael Parker Award
http://www.nrconline.org/awards/jmichaelparker.html

The National Reading Conference awards the J. Michael Parker Award to  
encourage research in adult literacy. The award is given to graduate  
students and untenured professors who present research on adult  
learning or education at the annual conference. The award was  
established in 2001 in honor of J. Michael Parker, winner of National  
Reading Conference?s Student Research Award. Recipients of the award  
receive a small cash award to be used for conference expenses and are  
recognized during a general session of the conference.

The award is presented to both papers with a single author and to co- 
authored papers. For single authored papers, the recipient will  
receive $500 and a plaque commemorating the award. For co-authored  
papers, the recipients will each receive a plaque and will decide  
amongst themselves how to divide the $500 award.

Committee members will rate the submissions on the following criteria:

1. The research is capable of making a significant contribution to  
theory and/or practice of adult learning and instruction.

2. The methodology is appropriate to the research question and of  
sufficient rigor.

3. Implications of the research are of a scope needed to impact the  
field.

Applicants will be notified of the results prior to the conference,  
and the plaque and honorarium will be presented to the winner during  
a plenary session at the conference.

Applicants are required to submit the full paper (25 pages or less)  
electronically by October 1st. Papers must be double-spaced and in 12- 
point font. The text limit does not include references and any  
appendices.

When submitting applications for the conference, those interested in  
the award should indicate that they will be applying for the J.  
Michael Parker Award (noted at the bottom of the personal information  
page).

Submissions and questions should be sent to the committee chair, Erik  
Jacobson, at jacobsone at mail.montclair.edu (replace at with @, no  
spaces).


Previous Winners

2007

Amy Johnson - ?Literacy as Answerable Response: A Life History  
Portrait of an African American Woman in a Rural Southern Community?

Kristin Perry - ?More than Language Translation: Culture, Text and  
Genre Aspects of Literacy Brokering among Sudanese Refugees?

2006

Robin Waterman - ?The Value of Mexican mothers, The Power of  
Effective Adult Education: Fueling viable parent involvement through  
school-based ESL classes?








From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Fri Jan 25 10:24:24 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:24:24 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1096] Register by February 3 for ProLiteracy/COABE NW
	Regional Institute in Portland, OR
Message-ID: <014101c85f66$60418a30$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Dear Assessment Listserv Members,

I want to remind you that there only 10 days remaining to register for
one of the three 8-hour intensive and interactive workshops that will be
offered at this excellent professional development opportunity.  

All the best,

Kathy St. John

Regional Institute Coordinator
ProLiteracy America
katlit2003 at yahoo.com




Register by February 3, 2008 for the ProLiteracy/COABE Northwest
Regional Institute 

February 28-29, 2008 

University Place, Portland, Oregon 

 
For program information: Go to
http://www.newreaderspress.com/downloads/NW_RI_08_Program_Info.pdf
<http://207.10.202.200/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.newreaderspr
ess.com/downloads/NW_RI_08_Program_Info.pdf>  

 
Featuring three 8-hour, intensive and interactive workshops: 

 
*	Models and Strategies for Adult Transitions 

Presenters: Cynthia Zafft, director, National College Transitions
Network, 
a project of World Education, Inc. and Sandy Goodman, National College
Transitions Network  

To register: Go to https://www.proliteracy.org/external/mod2_form2.asp
<http://207.10.202.200/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=https://www.proliteracy
.org/external/mod2_form2.asp>  
*	Student Retention Through Student Success  

Presenter: Jane Greiner, professional development coordinator,
ProLiteracy 
To register: Go to https://www.proliteracy.org/external/mod2_form2.asp
<http://207.10.202.200/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=https://www.proliteracy
.org/external/mod2_form2.asp>  
*	Data Analysis for Program Decision-Making (Dollar
General/ProLiteracy Performance Accountability Initiative) 

Presenter: Cathay Reta, Cornerstone Concepts  

To apply for participation:  

If you want your program to be a part of the Performance Accountability
Initiative, contact Marie Cora, Project Manager, at
mcora at proliteracy.org  <mailto:mcora at proliteracy.org> for more
information and an application form. Programs accepted in the Initiative
project will receive information for registering two people for Module
Two: Data Analysis for Program Decision-Making training. 

 

Special Feature: Breakfast Forum with David Harvey, President,
ProLiteracy 

 

Questions? Please go to:
http://www.newreaderspress.com/default_prolit.aspx
<http://207.10.202.200/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.newreaderspr
ess.com/default_prolit.aspx>  

or call (315) 422-9121 ext. 283 e-mail prodev at proliteracy.org. 
 
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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Mon Jan 28 15:58:46 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 15:58:46 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1097]  Performance Accountability opportunity
Message-ID: <052901c861f0$95a25bf0$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

PLEASE NOTE THAT THE APPLICATION DEADLINE HAS BEEN EXTENDED TO FEBRUARY
1, 2008
Application Deadline: Extended to February 1, 2008
Dear Colleague,
ProLiteracy is pleased to announce that the second of three modules
being produced through the Dollar General/ProLiteracy Performance
Accountability Initiative will be presented in all six ProLiteracy
regions.  
The second module begins with a day-and-a-half training on Data Analysis
for Program Decision-Making.  This training will help programs identify
their accountability system gaps while it shares promising practices
related to:
 
*	analyzing data and identifying trends
*	developing processes and strategies for data-driven program
improvement 
*	developing and using decision-making teams
*	creating and using data reports 
*	evaluating success
 
The training is based on understanding and implementing program
improvement principles related to accountability.  It is not restricted
to any one type of database.  Much of the content of the training is
drawn from exemplary literacy and adult education programs across the
country. 
Programs that participate in the training will be asked to 
*         implement one or more of the promising practices over the nine
months following the training
*         share their challenges, experiences, and successful strategies
as part of the print pieces that ProLiteracy will distribute nationally
at the end of the project. 
A stipend of $900.00 is available to support program participation in
the project.  The stipend is meant to help defray travel and hotel
expenses and to help cover reporting requirements.  
For an application and guidelines, or for more information about Data
Analysis for Program Decision-Making, please contact Marie Cora at
mcora at proliteracy.org.  
To be considered for participation, your program must submit its
completed application via e-mail (snail mail or faxes CANNOT be
accepted) by February 1, 2008, to mcora at proliteracy.org.  Up to 20
programs will be selected and invited to send two people from each
program to the training. 
If you know of other programs that may be interested in this
opportunity, please share this message with them. 
Thank you, 
Marie Cora, Project Manager 
ProLiteracy America
 
 
Marie Cora
 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Tue Jan 29 07:51:03 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 07:51:03 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1098]  Reminder:  Guest discussion next week!
Message-ID: <05f001c86275$9cf8b5e0$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.  I hope this email
finds you well.
 
I wanted to remind everyone about our upcoming discussion with JoAnn
Crandall and Forrest Chisman on their publication Passing the Torch:
Strategies for Innovation in Community College ESL.  
 
The discussion will focus on the innovative strategies that several
community colleges are using to help ESL students achieve higher learner
gains, increase retention rates, and facilitate transitions to higher
ed.
 
For complete information on this discussion and suggested preparations,
please go to:
 
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/08passingthetorch.html
 
Please join us for the discussion February 4 though 8!
 
Thanks!
 
Marie Cora
 
 
 
 
Marie Cora
marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Wed Jan 30 08:45:14 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 08:45:14 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1099]  Family Literacy List Discussion Announcment
Message-ID: <075a01c86346$58653f30$0202a8c0@LITNOW>


Colleagues:  to subscribe to this discussion on the Family Literacy
Discussion List, go to:
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/Familyliteracy.


Discussion Announcement

The Family Literacy Discussion List will host the following discussion
from February 4-8, 2008: Comprehension Monitoring Strategies for Adult
Readers. 

Guest Moderator

Susan McShane is a Reading Initiative Specialist at the National Center
for Family Literacy. She has more than 20 years of experience in adult
education and family literacy. She has taught adult reading students in
an adult basic education reading program, a private community-based
organization, and a community college developmental reading program. In
her current position, she authored a book for adult education
instructors, Applying Research in Reading Instruction for Adults: First
Steps for Teachers, developed with funding from the National Institute
for Literacy. As project manager for the Kentucky Adult Education
Reading Pilot Project, she provided training and assistance to
facilitate adult education teachers' implementation of scientifically
based reading instruction.
Joining Susan in the discussion will be Donna Elder, a Reading
Specialist at the National Center for Family Literacy. Donna served as a
reading coach for the Kentucky Adult Education Reading Pilot Project,
assisting adult education instructors in the implementation of reading
strategies, materials and activities to improve reading instruction and
learner outcomes for participants in the project.

Discussion Questions

1.       What comprehension monitoring strategies do you use with your
adult learners? Have you ever tried any of those mentioned on pages 80
-82 of Applying Research in Reading Instruction for Adults: First Steps
for Teachers (which is available free at
http://www.nifl.gov/nifl/publications.html ). What worked, what didn't? 
2.       How do you as instructors introduce/make the case for
comprehension strategy instruction with adult learners who may consider
themselves to be competent readers? 
3.       What strategies do you, as a reader, use? How can you become
more aware of the strategies you are using automatically, so you can
teach them to others? 

Suggested Reading

*	Pages 80-82 (Comprehension Monitoring), Chapter 7,
"Comprehension Strategy Instruction," Applying Research in Reading
Instruction for Adults: First Steps for Teachers. 
*	Research-Based Principles for Adult Basic Education Reading
Instruction by John Kruidenier. The publication is available free from
http://www.nifl.gov/nifl/publications.html 
*	National Institute for Literacy Webcast: From Assessment to
Practice: Research-Based Approaches to Teaching Reading to Adults, Part
1: Instructional Strategies for Alphabetics and Reading Comprehension.
Both the webcast and the PowerPoint slides are available at
http://www.nifl.gov/nifl/webcasts/assesspractice/webcast0928.html. 
*	National Institute for Literacy Webcast: From Assessment to
Practice: Research-Based Approaches to Teaching Reading to Adults Part
2: Specific Instructional Strategies for Fluency and Vocabulary. January
11, 2008. Webcast and PowerPoint slides are available at
http://www.nifl.gov/nifl/webcasts/assesspractice2/webcast0111.html. 
*	Assessment Strategies and Reading Profiles (ASRP):
Research-based assessment practices for the adult education classroom
Web site at http://www.nifl.gov/readingprofiles/ 
 
 
Gail J. Price
Multimedia Specialist
National Center for Family Literacy
325 W. Main Street, Suite 300
Louisville, KY 40202
gprice at famlit.org
502 584-1133, ext. 112
 
 
Join us for the 17th Annual National Conference on Family Literacy!
"Literacy Grows Families and Communities"
March 30, 31, & April 1, 2008-Louisville, KY
Register online at www.famlit.org/conference
 
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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Wed Jan 30 09:11:21 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 09:11:21 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1100]  Call for Proposals: IRA Convention
Message-ID: <001f01c86349$fe7e6d80$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

 
 
The Adult Education and Family Literacy Special Interest Group
(AEFL-SIG) is currently accepting proposals for the International
Reading Association (IRA) Annual Convention (West) that will be held in
Phoenix, Arizona February 21-25, 2009. 
 
The Adult Education and Family Literacy Special Interest Group
(AEFL-SIG) panel presentations provide a forum for sharing information
about specific areas of interest among reading and literacy
professionals.
 
For 2009, the panel will focus on the use of Web 2.0 technologies in
Adult Education, Family Literacy and ESOL programs and how they are
being utilized.
 
Web 2.0 refers to the second generation of the Web. This includes
Web-based communities and hosted services such as social-networking
sites, wikis, blogging, and tagging, just to name a few.  These
technologies are aimed at facilitating creativity, collaboration and
sharing between users.
 
Being a part of the AEFL-SIG panel presentation is a great opportunity
to..
 
*	Share your knowledge & experience with national and
international colleagues 
*	Interact and engage in critical dialogue and discussions as it
relates to your pedagogy 
*	Network with other Adult Education, Family Literacy and/or
English Speakers of Other Languages practitioners 
 
Based on pass experience, the panel presentation is around 1 hour and 15
minutes. This gives each panel member 20 minutes to share.  Q&A is
usually reserved for the end of the presentation.  The call for proposal
deadline is Friday, February 8, 2008 (3:00 p.m. E.S.T).  If are you
interested, please complete the online form located at 
 
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=myBE5cAG0h2A5EY3xzsDcQ_3d_3d
 
More information about IRA is obtainable at http://www.reading.org/
 
If you have questions and/or concerns, pertaining to AEFL-SIG, please
contact Kimberly S. McCoy, Program Chair via e-mail at ksmccoy at kent.edu
 
 
 
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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Fri Feb  1 11:03:20 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 11:03:20 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1101] Catalyst Questions for next week's Guest
	Discussion
Message-ID: <000001c864eb$f7c627f0$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.  I hope this email
finds you well.
Below please find a series of catalyst questions for you to think about
and respond to with our guests in next week's discussion.  They are very
interested in hearing your opinions and experiences.
Please note that Dr. Chisman and Dr. Crandall have elected to collect
your emails throughout the day, and respond to them at one time later
that day (as opposed to answering each email as it gets posted).  I will
remind you all of this on Monday morning, when our discussion opens.
Thanks so much everyone - and looking forward to a lively conversation
next week!
Marie Cora 
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
*********************************
For full information on this discussion, go to:  
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/08passingthetorch.html 
In preparation for next week's discussion on Passing the Torch:
Strategies for Innovation in Community College ESL, our guests have
posed a few questions for us to think about and respond to in order to
get our discussion started.  
To review first briefly, Drs. Crandall and Chisman's research found
that:  'only a small percentage of ESL students are enrolled in programs
for as long as four semesters (the equivalent of two years or less) -
either consecutively or at any time. As a result, few ESL students
experience significant learning gains from adult education ESL programs.
Moreover, only about 10 percent of non-credit ESL students make
transitions to credit ESL, and an even smaller percentage make
transitions to college academic or vocational programs.' [p. 5,
executive summary]
The authors' research concluded that the following factors are crucial
to a successful educational experience: 
*        intensity of instruction
*        structures and/or policies to facilitate student transition
*        professional development for staff working with this population
Their research also concluded that these important factors are often
ignored, leading to the problems for ESL students described above.  
Drs. Crandall and Chisman note that their research is focused on
community college, and thus, they are very interested in knowing what
this experience is like in non-community college settings.  To this end,
they have posed the following questions for us:
*        To what extent does your program perceive these 3 factors to be
issues?
*        Are these and the other findings of their research typical at
your community college ESL program?  If not, what is the experience like
at your program?
*        How typical are their findings in non-community college
settings? (CBOs, LEAs, Faith-Based, Workplace, etc)
*        How does your program offer instruction? (in terms of rigor and
intensity)
*        How does your program facilitate transitioning students to
workforce/career preparation or higher education and other programs?
*        What type of professional development is offered at your
program to help you better work with this population of ESL students?
*        About what portion of your students initially enroll at lower
(beginning) levels of ESL and how many levels do most of them progress?
(Surprisingly, there is no national data on this). 
*        How do you deal with the issues described above in the
research, if you experience them?
Please post your answers to these questions, as well as any questions
you have for our guests.  
 
 
Marie Cora
 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Mon Feb  4 09:37:34 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 09:37:34 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1102]  Guest Discussion begins today!
Message-ID: <035f01c8673b$7bde8090$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Dear Colleagues,
Today begins our discussion with Dr. Crandall and Dr. Chisman on their
work examining issues with ESL student achievement at the community
college level.  
Reminders:  
Dr. Chisman and Dr. Crandall have elected to collect your emails and
respond to them at one time later in the day (as opposed to answering
each email as it gets posted).  
Below are a series of questions for your response:
*        To what extent does your program perceive the following 3
factors to be issues in ESL student achievement?
1.      Intensity of instruction
2.      Structures and/or policies to facilitate student transition
3.      Professional development for staff working with this population
*        Are these and the other findings of their research typical at
your community college ESL program?  If not, what is the experience like
at your program?
*        How typical are their findings in non-community college
settings? (CBOs, LEAs, Faith-Based, Workplace, etc)
*        How does your program offer instruction? (in terms of rigor and
intensity)
*        How does your program facilitate transitioning students to
workforce/career preparation or higher education and other programs?
*        What type of professional development is offered at your
program to help you better work with this population of ESL students?
*        About what portion of your students initially enroll at lower
(beginning) levels of ESL and how many levels do most of them progress?
(Surprisingly, there is no national data on this). 
*        How do you deal with the issues described above in the
research, if you experience them?
Please post your answers to any of these questions, as well as any
questions you have for our guests now.  
For full information on this discussion, go to:  
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/08passingthetorch.html 
Thanks and looking forward to this week's discussion!
 
Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
 
 
 
Marie Cora
 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Mon Feb  4 18:50:48 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 18:50:48 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1103]  No Questions or Comments?!
Message-ID: <048601c86788$c51e4e50$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Hello everyone,
 
I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your
program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very
curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that
Dr. Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
intensity of instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
opportunities for professional development.
 
What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
student from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
 
Please post your questions and comments now.
 
Thanks!
 
Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
 
 
Marie Cora
 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
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From gburnett at sanford.org  Mon Feb  4 20:34:30 2008
From: gburnett at sanford.org (Gail Burnett)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 20:34:30 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
	Comments?!
References: <048601c86788$c51e4e50$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <D66AE1265AC9B14B9EDD2D3EDA8066F5013EA38C@shsmail.sanford.org>

Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
Warning: (not named).
Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more information.

In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three years) is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance, particularly if they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I would say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a student who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because he/she is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try to get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard concept in a second language. 
 
This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play a part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned from another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than classes). My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement. It's hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL teachers. The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging me to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're making some progress.
 
Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
To: Assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!


Hello everyone,
 
I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that Dr. Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of intensity of instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities for professional development.
 
What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL student from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
 
Please post your questions and comments now.
 
Thanks!
 
Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
 
 
Marie Cora
marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> 
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
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From taklein at austin.rr.com  Mon Feb  4 21:49:23 2008
From: taklein at austin.rr.com (Ted Klein)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 20:49:23 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
References: <048601c86788$c51e4e50$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <001001c867a1$b747c9f0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>

Marie,

In the long run, this may be all that I know.

Ted
www.tedklein-ESL.com

 

20 Questions: LANGUAGE CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES           NO                                              



1. Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?            

                                                            

2. Was the classroom comfortable in terms of                

   environment and learning atmosphere?                     

                                                            

3. Did the instructor have a pleasant and                   

   supportive personality?                                  

                                                            

4. Were the lessons communication centered,                 

   rather than informational, most of the time?             

                                                            

5. Was the instructor a native-speaker or                   

   near native-speaker of the target language?              

                                                            

6. Was the target language used as a medium                 

   of instruction all or most of the time?                  

                                                            

7. Did the students do most of the communication,           

   rather than the instructor?                              

                                                            

8. Did the instructor maintain control of the class         

   in a non-threatening manner?                             

                                                            

9. Did  members of the class seem compatible with each           

   other and the instructor?                                     

                                                                 

10. Did the students seem closely matched in their               

    target language proficiency?                                 

                                                                 

11. Did all of the students participate?                         

                                                                 

12. Were students enthusiastic?                                  

                                                                 

13. Did the instructor use a variety of techniques               

    to elicit communication activities?                          

                                                            

14. Did the instructor assist students, rather              

    than push them?                                         

                                                            

15. Did the instructor use normal, rather than              

    exaggerated speech?                                     

                                                            

16. Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce         

    results?                                                

                                                            

17. Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?     

                                                            

18. Was correction applied moderately and positively        

    so that it wouldn't inhibit communication?              

                                                            

19. Was there a balance of language skills (listening,      

    speaking, reading and writing?)                             

                                                            

20. Were students dealt with appropriately for their        

    ages? (e.g. adults treated like adults).

                                                                                      


---- Original Message ----- 
  From: Marie Cora 
  To: Assessment at nifl.gov 
  Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50 PM
  Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!


  Hello everyone,

   

  I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that Dr. Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of intensity of instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities for professional development.

   

  What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL student from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?

   

  Please post your questions and comments now.

   

  Thanks!

   

  Marie Cora

  Assessment Discussion List Moderator

   

   

  Marie Cora

  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

  NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator

  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

   

   



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  -------------------------------
  National Institute for Literacy
  Assessment mailing list
  Assessment at nifl.gov
  To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
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From jackie.coelho at gmail.com  Mon Feb  4 22:23:06 2008
From: jackie.coelho at gmail.com (Jackie Coelho)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 22:23:06 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1106] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <048601c86788$c51e4e50$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
References: <048601c86788$c51e4e50$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <1dd5701e0802041923p44dc9f0aub4215463dc89bcc1@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Maria,
   Since the conversation has had a slow start, I am going to ask a
question. I know that perhaps this question is answered in the
reading, which I have had time to read, so forgive me if that is the
case. What exactly is "intensity of instruction"? And how does one
measure "rigor"?

  Just the thoughts I had when I first read the description of this
discussion group.
Jackie

On 2/4/08, Marie Cora <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
>
>
> I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your
> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very
> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that Dr.
> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of intensity of
> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities for
> professional development.
>
>
>
> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL student
> from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
>
>
>
> Please post your questions and comments now.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Marie Cora
>
> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Marie Cora
>
> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>
> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>
>


From atyskiewicz at crec.org  Tue Feb  5 08:56:38 2008
From: atyskiewicz at crec.org (Tyskiewicz, Andy)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 08:56:38 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1107] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <048601c86788$c51e4e50$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <2E4115D033189841AF7BAF1768828B06A82BAB@crecmail.crec.org>

We have been funded for an ESL Transition to College program over the
next three years by a private foundation. There is a need in CT to
streamline services and to connect what our adult ed public school based
programs do with community colleges. We need to avoid duplication of
services and move forward with best practices. Our current program
(Regional Service Center entity) is more intensive in services 15-20
hours a week with internships and close support services - this is a
major factor in bridging the route to higher ed and referrals to the CC
ESL program. If students complete our program they usually skip a level
at the CC and avoid using some federal assistance for non-credit
courses, which is itself a controversial issue. The school districts
have free programs. PD is extensively provided in CT through a
centralized service. A next step here is further developing the linkages
with the private sector - more VESL on site - we have an increasing
number of these programs. Some funding is being provided through the
Labor Dept. incumbent worker funds and some by the companies. This is a
real growth area for services.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 6:51 PM
To: Assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!

 

Hello everyone,

 

I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your
program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very
curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that
Dr. Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
intensity of instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
opportunities for professional development.

 

What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
student from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?

 

Please post your questions and comments now.

 

Thanks!

 

Marie Cora

Assessment Discussion List Moderator

 

 

Marie Cora

marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> 

NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator

http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

 


    The documents accompanying this fax or e-mail transmission, including any attachments, are for the sole use of the intended recipients and MAY contain confidential health or other information that is legally privileged.  The authorized recipient of this information is prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party unless required to do so by law or regulation and is required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled.

If you are NOT the intended recipient you are hereby notified that ANY disclosure, copying, distribution or action taken in reliance on the contents of these documents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information via facsimile in error, please notify the sender immediately and arrange for the return or destruction of these documents. If information is received via e-mail and you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by e-mail immediately and delete/destroy both the original and the reply e-mail message.



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From Tina_Luffman at yc.edu  Tue Feb  5 10:48:01 2008
From: Tina_Luffman at yc.edu (Tina_Luffman at yc.edu)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 08:48:01 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
	or	Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <D66AE1265AC9B14B9EDD2D3EDA8066F5013EA38C@shsmail.sanford.org>
References: <048601c86788$c51e4e50$0202a8c0@LITNOW>,
	<D66AE1265AC9B14B9EDD2D3EDA8066F5013EA38C@shsmail.sanford.org>
Message-ID: <OF2315CD03.68A1EFAC-ON072573E6.00565C28-072573E6.0056CB3E@yc.edu>

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From jackie.coelho at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 13:06:09 2008
From: jackie.coelho at gmail.com (Jackie Coelho)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 13:06:09 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
	Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <OF2315CD03.68A1EFAC-ON072573E6.00565C28-072573E6.0056CB3E@yc.edu>
References: <048601c86788$c51e4e50$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
	<D66AE1265AC9B14B9EDD2D3EDA8066F5013EA38C@shsmail.sanford.org>
	<OF2315CD03.68A1EFAC-ON072573E6.00565C28-072573E6.0056CB3E@yc.edu>
Message-ID: <1dd5701e0802051006i6f9e4473wcc9aa9810ca65f7c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Tina,

This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in
favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in
the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation
in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second
or third language.

Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not written.

Jackie


On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:
> Hi list members,
>
> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to that of
> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country they
> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather quickly and
> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their country or
> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much
> advancement.
>
> This experience relates well to research done among Native American tribes
> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught literacy
> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who tried
> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their own
> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The
> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much easier
> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this is
> something deserving more research.
>
> Tina
> Tina Luffman
> Coordinator, Developmental Education
> Verde Valley Campus
> 928-634-6544
> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>
> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>
> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>
> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
> Comments?!
>
>
> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
> Warning: (not named).
> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more
> information.
>
> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three years)
> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance, particularly if
> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at
> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I would
> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a student
> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because he/she
> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try to
> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard concept
> in a second language.
>
> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play a
> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned from
> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than classes).
> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement. It's
> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL teachers.
> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging me
> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're
> making some progress.
>
> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your
> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very
> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that Dr.
> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of intensity of
> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities for
> professional development.
>
> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL student
> from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
>
> Please post your questions and comments now.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Marie Cora
> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>
>
> Marie Cora
> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
> If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager.
> This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the
> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>
>
>


From Tina_Luffman at yc.edu  Tue Feb  5 13:32:14 2008
From: Tina_Luffman at yc.edu (Tina_Luffman at yc.edu)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 11:32:14 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
	or	Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <1dd5701e0802051006i6f9e4473wcc9aa9810ca65f7c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OF56C5D320.83B8357C-ON072573E6.0065B469-072573E6.0065D41F@yc.edu>

Hi Jackie,

Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my 
former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual education 
in the K-12 school system.

Tina

Tina Luffman
Coordinator, Developmental Education
Verde Valley Campus
928-634-6544
tina_luffman at yc.edu



"Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com> 
Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
02/05/2008 11:13 AM
Please respond to
The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>


To
"The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
cc

Subject
[Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or  Comments?!






Hi Tina,

This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in
favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in
the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation
in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second
or third language.

Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not 
written.

Jackie


On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:
> Hi list members,
>
> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to that 
of
> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country 
they
> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather quickly 
and
> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their country 
or
> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much
> advancement.
>
> This experience relates well to research done among Native American 
tribes
> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught 
literacy
> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who 
tried
> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their own
> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The
> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much 
easier
> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this is
> something deserving more research.
>
> Tina
> Tina Luffman
> Coordinator, Developmental Education
> Verde Valley Campus
> 928-634-6544
> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>
> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>
> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>
> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
> Comments?!
>
>
> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
> Warning: (not named).
> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more
> information.
>
> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three 
years)
> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance, 
particularly if
> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at
> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I 
would
> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a 
student
> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because 
he/she
> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try 
to
> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard 
concept
> in a second language.
>
> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play 
a
> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned 
from
> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than 
classes).
> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement. 
It's
> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL 
teachers.
> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging 
me
> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're
> making some progress.
>
> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your
> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very
> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that 
Dr.
> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of intensity 
of
> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities 
for
> professional development.
>
> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL 
student
> from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
>
> Please post your questions and comments now.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Marie Cora
> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>
>
> Marie Cora
> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and 
intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are 
addressed.
> If you have received this email in error please notify the system 
manager.
> This message contains confidential information and is intended only for 
the
> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>
>
>
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu

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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Tue Feb  5 14:42:06 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 14:42:06 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <001001c867a1$b747c9f0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
Message-ID: <000001c8682f$3172ae10$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi Ted,
 
Thanks for this.  This is a great list - did you generate it yourself?  
 
I guess I have a bunch of questions for you about it:
 
How do you use it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try to
address each item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do others you
work with?
 
Do you find that if you adhere to these principles, that the students
advance?
 
Marie
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Ted Klein
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!


Marie,
 
In the long run, this may be all that I know.
 
Ted
www.tedklein-ESL.com
 
 
20 Questions: LANGUAGE CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES           NO

 
1. Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?            
                                                            
2. Was the classroom comfortable in terms of                
   environment and learning atmosphere?                     
                                                            
3. Did the instructor have a pleasant and                   
   supportive personality?                                  
                                                            
4. Were the lessons communication centered,                 
   rather than informational, most of the time?             
                                                            
5. Was the instructor a native-speaker or                   
   near native-speaker of the target language?              
                                                            
6. Was the target language used as a medium                 
   of instruction all or most of the time?                  
                                                            
7. Did the students do most of the communication,           
   rather than the instructor?                              
                                                            
8. Did the instructor maintain control of the class         
   in a non-threatening manner?                             
                                                            
9. Did  members of the class seem compatible with each           
   other and the instructor?                                     
                                                                 
10. Did the students seem closely matched in their               
    target language proficiency?                                 
                                                                 
11. Did all of the students participate?                         
                                                                 
12. Were students enthusiastic?                                  
                                                                 
13. Did the instructor use a variety of techniques               
    to elicit communication activities?                          
                                                            
14. Did the instructor assist students, rather              
    than push them?                                         
                                                            
15. Did the instructor use normal, rather than              
    exaggerated speech?                                     
                                                            
16. Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce         
    results?                                                
                                                            
17. Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?     
                                                            
18. Was correction applied moderately and positively        
    so that it wouldn't inhibit communication?              
                                                            
19. Was there a balance of language skills (listening,      
    speaking, reading and writing?)                             
                                                            
20. Were students dealt with appropriately for their        
    ages? (e.g. adults treated like adults).
 

 
---- Original Message ----- 
From: Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>  
To: Assessment at nifl.gov 
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50 PM
Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!

Hello everyone,
 
I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your
program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very
curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that
Dr. Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
intensity of instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
opportunities for professional development.
 
What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
student from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
 
Please post your questions and comments now.
 
Thanks!
 
Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
 
 
Marie Cora
 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 


  _____  


-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Tue Feb  5 14:56:39 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 14:56:39 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1111] Re: Factors affecting student advancement
In-Reply-To: <D66AE1265AC9B14B9EDD2D3EDA8066F5013EA38C@shsmail.sanford.org>
Message-ID: <002901c86831$399e9700$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi Gail, thanks for your post.

I think you raise some interesting issues to add to the list of items in
question.  You've noted that a student's educational experience often
seems to help, that perhaps the teacher's skill level could be at play,
and that small program's face many challenges that could exacerbate the
entire situation.

It's great to know that your program does its best to help you improve
your skills Gail.  At least you have that piece of the puzzle to an
extent.  

How about other factors that could cause problems?  Does anyone have
other things to add - and what you or your program tries to do to
address the issues?

Thanks!

Marie

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Gail Burnett
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 8:35 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
orComments?!

Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
Warning: (not named).
Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more
information.

In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three
years) is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
particularly if they're not working too many hours. Those who advance
the slowest, if at all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their
first language. I would say that lack of education is a bigger factor
than lack of time; a student who works full-time and is exhausted often
will still succeed because he/she is familiar with academic work, and is
goal-oriented. What we do is try to get our low-level students to come
up with goals, but that's a hard concept in a second language. 
 
This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play
a part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned
from another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
classes). My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow
advancement. It's hard for small adult education programs to get highly
skilled ESL teachers. The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my
program is encouraging me to get extra training and has me on a plan of
improvement. I think we're making some progress.
 
Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
To: Assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!


Hello everyone,
 
I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your
program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very
curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that
Dr. Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
intensity of instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
opportunities for professional development.
 
What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
student from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
 
Please post your questions and comments now.
 
Thanks!
 
Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
 
 
Marie Cora
marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> 
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the
system manager. This message contains confidential information and is
intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named
addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.



From jschneider at eicc.edu  Tue Feb  5 14:45:38 2008
From: jschneider at eicc.edu (Schneider, Jim)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 13:45:38 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1112] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <048601c86788$c51e4e50$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870AD26EA6@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>

I have directed a downtown Adult Learning Center for our local community
college for 14 years. The #1 issue that inhibits the success of all of
our learners - ESL, ABE, or GED is funding and infrastructure. 
 
Funding puts severe limits on the pay that is available for instructors,
the hours that classes can be offered, and the support services that
will be available to the learners. 
 
The reality of funding limitations on our program result in 
 
- starting pay of $13.25 an hour, top pay of $15.25/hr  - which is not
competitive with K-12 substitute teachers, let alone highly qualified,
instructors with any significant ESL and/or adult education training.
Our instructors work hard and are committed to the learning of their
students, but with an extremely limited well of knowledge training to
draw upon. 
 
- 4-10 hours a week for 38 weeks of the year also severely limits the
pool of interested instructors, as well as inhibiting the learning
opportunities of the students.  
 
Similar to others who have posted - we find that the higher the
literacy/education of the ESL student upon enrollment, the more likely
they are to progress and transition to additional education/training -
which isn't all that different from the U.S. born ABE students. 
 
We do have staff who do assist our learners transition to our short-term
vocational &  credit programs as one of several responsibilities. The
majority of ESL learners who have transitioned have done so via
short-term vocational programming - CNA, welding, etc.  Those who
transitioned into a credit program were again those who were well
educated in their home country. 
 
Bottom line is that adult literacy desperately needs a serious
commitment of funding, support and infrastructure from the federal,
state and local levels if meaningful learning is going to take place.
The system does very well considering the limitations placed upon it.
Professional development opportunities are meaningless if the system
doesn't support professionals. There isn't an NRS accountability measure
that can create Cadillac-level students with the current Yugo budgets. 
 
Sincerely, 
 
Jim Schneider
 
 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:51 PM
To: Assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!


Hello everyone,
 
I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your
program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very
curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that
Dr. Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
intensity of instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
opportunities for professional development.
 
What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
student from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
 
Please post your questions and comments now.
 
Thanks!
 
Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
 
 
Marie Cora
marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> 
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
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From valerie.woodard at hccs.edu  Tue Feb  5 14:59:12 2008
From: valerie.woodard at hccs.edu (valerie.woodard)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 13:59:12 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1113] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
References: <048601c86788$c51e4e50$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
	<1dd5701e0802041923p44dc9f0aub4215463dc89bcc1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B5EE7DED9296B4A94B20684F5289B296CBDA8@ADMINMAIL2.ad.hccs.edu>

I would like to respond to this question  it has been very hard to track this.  I have develop a process by viewing class data.  We have began to give all instructor and support staff computer access to data for tracking and forcasting.   
 
Valerie Y. Woodard, MA
Program Director
Research, Evaluation & Staff Development
Community & Adult Education
Houston Community College
3100 Main St, Rm BD07E
Houston, Texas  77002
 
713-718-5363 Office
713718-5377  Fax
 
http://www.hccs.ed/adulted.mov <http://www.hccs.ed/adulteEd.mov> 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Jackie Coelho
Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 9:23 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1106] Re: No Questions or Comments?!



Hi Maria,
   Since the conversation has had a slow start, I am going to ask a
question. I know that perhaps this question is answered in the
reading, which I have had time to read, so forgive me if that is the
case. What exactly is "intensity of instruction"? And how does one
measure "rigor"?

  Just the thoughts I had when I first read the description of this
discussion group.
Jackie

On 2/4/08, Marie Cora <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
>
>
> I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your
> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very
> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that Dr.
> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of intensity of
> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities for
> professional development.
>
>
>
> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL student
> from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
>
>
>
> Please post your questions and comments now.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Marie Cora
>
> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Marie Cora
>
> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>
> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>
>
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to valerie.woodard at hccs.edu




From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Tue Feb  5 15:04:14 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 15:04:14 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1114] Re: Intensity of Instruction
In-Reply-To: <1dd5701e0802041923p44dc9f0aub4215463dc89bcc1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004801c86832$48d94070$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi Jackie, great questions.  I can weigh in a little, and I'm sure that
subscribers can also add to what is meant by intensity and rigor, and of
course we will hear from our guests later on today.

There's a good article from Center for Applied Linguistics that
discusses this, through the lens of advancing NRS levels in BEST Plus:

Effects of Instructional Hours and Intensity of Instruction on NRS Level
Gain in Listening and Speaking
Sarah Young
Center for Applied Linguistics
2007
http://www.cal.org/resources/Digest/levelgain.html

It's pretty good - it reviews what is meant by instructional hours and
intensity, the relationship between level gains and these two factors,
and then provides some advice to programs.  

Here is their definition of intensity of instruction:

"Intensity of instruction was defined as how often students attended
class over a given period of time, ranging from low intensity (e.g., 100
hours of instruction over 250 days) to high intensity (e.g., 100 hours
of instruction over 75 days)."

How about anyone else?  Anything to add?

Marie





-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Jackie Coelho
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 10:23 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1106] Re: No Questions or Comments?!

Hi Maria,
   Since the conversation has had a slow start, I am going to ask a
question. I know that perhaps this question is answered in the
reading, which I have had time to read, so forgive me if that is the
case. What exactly is "intensity of instruction"? And how does one
measure "rigor"?

  Just the thoughts I had when I first read the description of this
discussion group.
Jackie

On 2/4/08, Marie Cora <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
>
>
> I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your
> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very
> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
that Dr.
> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of intensity
of
> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities
for
> professional development.
>
>
>
> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
student
> from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
>
>
>
> Please post your questions and comments now.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Marie Cora
>
> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Marie Cora
>
> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>
> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>
>
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com



From jackie.coelho at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 15:08:10 2008
From: jackie.coelho at gmail.com (Jackie Coelho)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 15:08:10 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1115] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870AD26EA6@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
References: <048601c86788$c51e4e50$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
	<208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870AD26EA6@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
Message-ID: <1dd5701e0802051208t204aff2ah465145d89b9d6e33@mail.gmail.com>

Way to go Jim!!!!
On 2/5/08, Schneider, Jim <jschneider at eicc.edu> wrote:
>
> I have directed a downtown Adult Learning Center for our local community
> college for 14 years. The #1 issue that inhibits the success of all of our
> learners - ESL, ABE, or GED is funding and infrastructure.
>
> Funding puts severe limits on the pay that is available for instructors, the
> hours that classes can be offered, and the support services that will be
> available to the learners.
>
> The reality of funding limitations on our program result in
>
> - starting pay of $13.25 an hour, top pay of $15.25/hr  - which is not
> competitive with K-12 substitute teachers, let alone highly qualified,
> instructors with any significant ESL and/or adult education training. Our
> instructors work hard and are committed to the learning of their students,
> but with an extremely limited well of knowledge training to draw upon.
>
> - 4-10 hours a week for 38 weeks of the year also severely limits the pool
> of interested instructors, as well as inhibiting the learning opportunities
> of the students.
>
> Similar to others who have posted - we find that the higher the
> literacy/education of the ESL student upon enrollment, the more likely they
> are to progress and transition to additional education/training - which
> isn't all that different from the U.S. born ABE students.
>
> We do have staff who do assist our learners transition to our short-term
> vocational &  credit programs as one of several responsibilities. The
> majority of ESL learners who have transitioned have done so via short-term
> vocational programming - CNA, welding, etc.  Those who transitioned into a
> credit program were again those who were well educated in their home
> country.
>
> Bottom line is that adult literacy desperately needs a serious commitment of
> funding, support and infrastructure from the federal, state and local levels
> if meaningful learning is going to take place. The system does very well
> considering the limitations placed upon it. Professional development
> opportunities are meaningless if the system doesn't support professionals.
> There isn't an NRS accountability measure that can create Cadillac-level
> students with the current Yugo budgets.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Jim Schneider
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
> Behalf Of Marie Cora
> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:51 PM
> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>
>
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
>
>
> I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your
> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very
> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that Dr.
> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of intensity of
> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities for
> professional development.
>
>
>
> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL student
> from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
>
>
>
> Please post your questions and comments now.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Marie Cora
>
> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Marie Cora
>
> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>
> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>
>


From crandall at umbc.edu  Tue Feb  5 16:30:58 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:30:58 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Assessment 1116] Intensity of Instruction and funding of adult ESL
	programs
Message-ID: <52106.130.85.83.224.1202247058.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>


Hi, everyone.  It has been interesting reading the postings today and want
to respond to some of them now.  I just learned from Forrest that his
Internet Service Provider is down, but he expects to be back on line
either tonight or tomorrow.  He'll add his comments later.

In the meantime, let me respond to a couple of themes that have emerged in
the discussion.

Jackie asked what we meant by "intensity of instruction" and Marie
provided a definition from an excellent publication from the Center for
Applied Linguistics which analyzes the effects of instructional hours and
intensity of instruction on NRS level gains in  listening and speaking.

In our study, we define "intensity of instruction" as the number of hours
per week and differentiate it from "duration" which is the total number of
hours for the program.
We think both intensity and duration are important.  It is important to
have enough hours per week of instruction, but also important that there
be enough weeks.  Programs in the 5 community colleges we studied varied
from 3 to 20 hours per week of instruction, with 10 hours/week considered
"semi-intensive" and 20 hours/week as "intensive" instruction.

As Jim so eloquently put it, there are some basic reasons why programs
might not offer as many hours of instruction per week as they want to,
with funding being at the root of many of the reasons.

Forrest and I would be interested in knowing how many hours per week your
various programs meet (and for how many weeks) and how you determined that
schedule.  Have you tried more intense programs for shorter periods of
time?  What has been the impact on attendance?

Have any of you provided adult ESL/ESOL programs that charge a fee?  We
were surprised to learn of such a program at Bunker Hill Community
College.  They provide free adult ESOL and also a fee-based program in an
attempt to accommodate more learners.  They found that at least some
learners were able to pay the fee and thus they were able to serve more
learners.

We'd also like to know if your programs are open-entry/open-exit, with
learners coming to class when they can and sometimes leaving for several
classes before they return, or if you have tried some kind of "managed
enrollment" with attendance expectations of those who are enrolled in your
classes.  Several community colleges have experimented with this approach
and have found it effective.  I know that Forrest will have more to say
about this.

I have to go teach, but when I return, I'd like to talk a bit about issues
surrounding literacy and prior education.

Jodi Crandall




From taklein at austin.rr.com  Tue Feb  5 16:00:55 2008
From: taklein at austin.rr.com (Ted Klein)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 15:00:55 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1117] Re: Observation checklist
References: <000001c8682f$3172ae10$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <005a01c8683a$3395db30$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>

MessageMarie,

I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and out of the U.S.A.  teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc. in ESL. It is based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that I'm back in the ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the Defense Language Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching immigrants part time for the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin Community College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what language teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to work at a higher level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I apply everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy traps." I have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed interested and it is published on my website at http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel absolutely free to use it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank you very much for the input. Questions are welcome. 

Cheers,   Ted

       Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
  Independent Consultant in Language
         and Intercultural Training
              14456 Agarita Road
          Austin, Texas 78734-2009
             Phone:512-266-1801
            taklein at austin.rr.com
            www.tedklein-ESL.com     
             

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Marie Cora 
  To: Assessment at nifl.gov 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42 PM
  Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re: Observation checklist


  Hi Ted,

  Thanks for this.  This is a great list - did you generate it yourself?  

  I guess I have a bunch of questions for you about it:

  How do you use it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try to address each item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do others you work with?

  Do you find that if you adhere to these principles, that the students advance?

  Marie



    -----Original Message-----
    From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Ted Klein
    Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49 PM
    To: The Assessment Discussion List
    Subject: [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!


    Marie,

    In the long run, this may be all that I know.

    Ted
    www.tedklein-ESL.com

     

    20 Questions: LANGUAGE CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES           NO                                              



    1. Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?            

                                                                

    2. Was the classroom comfortable in terms of                

       environment and learning atmosphere?                     

                                                                

    3. Did the instructor have a pleasant and                   

       supportive personality?                                  

                                                                

    4. Were the lessons communication centered,                 

       rather than informational, most of the time?             

                                                                

    5. Was the instructor a native-speaker or                   

       near native-speaker of the target language?              

                                                                

    6. Was the target language used as a medium                 

       of instruction all or most of the time?                  

                                                                

    7. Did the students do most of the communication,           

       rather than the instructor?                              

                                                                

    8. Did the instructor maintain control of the class         

       in a non-threatening manner?                             

                                                                

    9. Did  members of the class seem compatible with each           

       other and the instructor?                                     

                                                                     

    10. Did the students seem closely matched in their               

        target language proficiency?                                 

                                                                     

    11. Did all of the students participate?                         

                                                                     

    12. Were students enthusiastic?                                  

                                                                     

    13. Did the instructor use a variety of techniques               

        to elicit communication activities?                          

                                                                

    14. Did the instructor assist students, rather              

        than push them?                                         

                                                                

    15. Did the instructor use normal, rather than              

        exaggerated speech?                                     

                                                                

    16. Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce         

        results?                                                

                                                                

    17. Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?     

                                                                

    18. Was correction applied moderately and positively        

        so that it wouldn't inhibit communication?              

                                                                

    19. Was there a balance of language skills (listening,      

        speaking, reading and writing?)                             

                                                                

    20. Were students dealt with appropriately for their        

        ages? (e.g. adults treated like adults).

                                                                                          


    ---- Original Message ----- 
      From: Marie Cora 
      To: Assessment at nifl.gov 
      Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50 PM
      Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!


      Hello everyone,

       

      I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that Dr. Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of intensity of instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities for professional development.

       

      What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL student from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?

       

      Please post your questions and comments now.

       

      Thanks!

       

      Marie Cora

      Assessment Discussion List Moderator

       

       

      Marie Cora

      marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

      NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator

      http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

       

       



--------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From D'Andra.VanHeusen at nycha.nyc.gov  Tue Feb  5 17:34:54 2008
From: D'Andra.VanHeusen at nycha.nyc.gov (Van Heusen-Thomas, D'Andra)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 17:34:54 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1118] Re: Factors affecting student advancement
In-Reply-To: <002901c86831$399e9700$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <ACA5BF9B90F9A8469E885DB8089F6D7A037C55FC@CHMSEXP2.nycha.nyc.gov>

As discussed, often times there are factors beyond educational levels
that impede the success of a native English speaker or ELL when trying
to achieve their higher education aspirations. There has to be a
multistoried approach to working with the adult student who, although
motivated, has those added pressures of family responsibility, work
(non-working or underemployed), money, lack of social and family
support, etc to contend with. Finding the time, energy and dedication
necessary to stay the course can be daunting especially if they've
achieved limited educational success in their native language. Now the
expectations are, if they want to have the "American Dream", they must
(on some level) master a new language (both oral and written). Add to
the mix low paid teachers and/or instructors or organizations with
limited or no access to workforce resources such as job readiness
training etc and the water become even muddier. 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 2:57 PM
To: Assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1111] Re: Factors affecting student advancement

Hi Gail, thanks for your post.

I think you raise some interesting issues to add to the list of items in
question.  You've noted that a student's educational experience often
seems to help, that perhaps the teacher's skill level could be at play,
and that small program's face many challenges that could exacerbate the
entire situation.

It's great to know that your program does its best to help you improve
your skills Gail.  At least you have that piece of the puzzle to an
extent.  

How about other factors that could cause problems?  Does anyone have
other things to add - and what you or your program tries to do to
address the issues?

Thanks!

Marie

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Gail Burnett
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 8:35 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
orComments?!

Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
Warning: (not named).
Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more
information.

In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three
years) is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
particularly if they're not working too many hours. Those who advance
the slowest, if at all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their
first language. I would say that lack of education is a bigger factor
than lack of time; a student who works full-time and is exhausted often
will still succeed because he/she is familiar with academic work, and is
goal-oriented. What we do is try to get our low-level students to come
up with goals, but that's a hard concept in a second language. 
 
This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play
a part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned
from another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
classes). My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow
advancement. It's hard for small adult education programs to get highly
skilled ESL teachers. The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my
program is encouraging me to get extra training and has me on a plan of
improvement. I think we're making some progress.
 
Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
To: Assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!


Hello everyone,
 
I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your
program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very
curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that
Dr. Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
intensity of instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
opportunities for professional development.
 
What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
student from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
 
Please post your questions and comments now.
 
Thanks!
 
Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
 
 
Marie Cora
marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> 
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the
system manager. This message contains confidential information and is
intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named
addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to d'andra.vanheusen at nycha.nyc.gov


From forrest at crosslink.net  Tue Feb  5 18:41:03 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 18:41:03 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1119] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <2E4115D033189841AF7BAF1768828B06A82BAB@crecmail.crec.org>
References: <048601c86788$c51e4e50$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
	<2E4115D033189841AF7BAF1768828B06A82BAB@crecmail.crec.org>
Message-ID: <000801c86850$94844d30$bd8ce790$@net>

Hello List,

 

As one of the "guests" in this discussion, I want to apologize for being so
late in weighing in. My ISP chose today to go down - ALL DAY. But I'll do my
best now, and Jodi Crandall may join me a bit later.

 

Let me start with the Andy's contribution, because transitions are a special
interest of mine. I was delighted to learn of this transition program, and
it seems to be doing all the right things. Andy, I think you could help all
of us if you could tell us MORE. For example, how many students are enrolled
in the program each year (or semester), is it limited in geographic area
(and if so what area), do you have waiting lists or can you serve everyone
who applies, how many weeks (terms) does the program run, at what level do
students enter it (or what criteria are used to select them), can you
characterize the curriculum (e.g., how does it differ from standard life
skills or credit ESL, if at all), what are the "internships" (a fascinating
idea!) and support services,  what percentage of students who enroll make
transitions to colleges, do you know how successful they are in college?
Finally, how much does it cost on a per-student basis? The cost issue is
often a barrier to establishing and maintaining good transition programs. In
fact, could you support the program without private foundation funding? Is
that a barrier to expanding it? Are there other barriers to expanding it? 

 

I know that's asking a lot, but really good transition programs are hard to
find, and I think you would make a major contribution by telling everyone
more about yours.

 

Jodi and I agree that there is a great need for more VESL programs. A
problem seems to be that good ones are expensive to develop and maintain.
I've seen too many good VESL programs that were created  with grant funding
die because they couldn't be sustained by state funding, tuition, and other
"usual" means. Another problem seems to be the need to target VESL programs
on areas of real labor market need in a given area. Finally, at least some
VESL programs prepare students only for entry level jobs (such as CNA) that
pay very low wages. Often students who complete these programs don't remain
in the vocation very long, or if they do they become members of the "working
poor" - which most of them were to begin with.  It seems that VESL programs
that contain a "career ladder" component have better results, both short
term and long term, for both the students and the workforce. I'm wondering
whether these observations correspond to the experiences of people viewing
this discussion, and if they do, what have any of you been able to do to
meet these problems/challenges? In fact, I'm wondering how many of you have
VESL programs, and in what fields.  

 

Forrest Chisman

Vice President

Council for the Advancement of Adult Literacy 

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Tyskiewicz, Andy
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 8:57 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1107] Re: No Questions or Comments?!

 

We have been funded for an ESL Transition to College program over the next
three years by a private foundation. There is a need in CT to streamline
services and to connect what our adult ed public school based programs do
with community colleges. We need to avoid duplication of services and move
forward with best practices. Our current program (Regional Service Center
entity) is more intensive in services 15-20 hours a week with internships
and close support services - this is a major factor in bridging the route to
higher ed and referrals to the CC ESL program. If students complete our
program they usually skip a level at the CC and avoid using some federal
assistance for non-credit courses, which is itself a controversial issue.
The school districts have free programs. PD is extensively provided in CT
through a centralized service. A next step here is further developing the
linkages with the private sector - more VESL on site - we have an increasing
number of these programs. Some funding is being provided through the Labor
Dept. incumbent worker funds and some by the companies. This is a real
growth area for services.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 6:51 PM
To: Assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!

 

Hello everyone,

 

I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your
program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very
curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that Dr.
Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of intensity of
instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities for
professional development.

 

What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL student
from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?

 

Please post your questions and comments now.

 

Thanks!

 

Marie Cora

Assessment Discussion List Moderator

 

 

Marie Cora

 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator

http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

 

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From forrest at crosslink.net  Tue Feb  5 19:08:36 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 19:08:36 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1120] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No
	Questions	or	Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <OF56C5D320.83B8357C-ON072573E6.0065B469-072573E6.0065D41F@yc.edu>
References: <1dd5701e0802051006i6f9e4473wcc9aa9810ca65f7c@mail.gmail.com>
	<OF56C5D320.83B8357C-ON072573E6.0065B469-072573E6.0065D41F@yc.edu>
Message-ID: <000d01c86854$6e1dfde0$4a59f9a0$@net>

To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in
student performance:

 

Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly
educated students do better in terms of  persistence, learning gains, and
transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably
we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education
makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of their
students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That is, do
you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education makes? Or
any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior education that
seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are completely illiterate,
students who at least reached high school, high school graduates, college
graduates, etc. --  or is level of prior education pretty much of a
continuum?

 

More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly
educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably students
with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower level
ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by
definition)  in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes math.
Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at these
levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be desirable
to place less highly educated students in separate classes from those with
more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for them
accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or the
Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these
approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of "bi-lingual
education" that should be tried? 

 

It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the people
who study immigration tell us that the level of education of immigrants has
been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large numbers of
undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means), ESL programs
may be swamped with students who have very little education in their native
countries and too little money to serve them.  So anyone who has any ideas
about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a lot by posting
ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.

 

Forrest Chisman

Vice President

CAAL

 

  

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

 


Hi Jackie, 

Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my
former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual education in
the K-12 school system. 

Tina 

Tina Luffman
Coordinator, Developmental Education
Verde Valley Campus
928-634-6544
tina_luffman at yc.edu 




"Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com> 
Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 

02/05/2008 11:13 AM 


Please respond to
The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>


To

"The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov> 


cc

	

Subject

[Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

 

		




Hi Tina,

This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in
favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in
the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation
in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second
or third language.

Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not
written.

Jackie


On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:
> Hi list members,
>
> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to that
of
> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country
they
> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather quickly
and
> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their country
or
> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much
> advancement.
>
> This experience relates well to research done among Native American tribes
> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
literacy
> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who
tried
> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their own
> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The
> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much
easier
> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this is
> something deserving more research.
>
> Tina
> Tina Luffman
> Coordinator, Developmental Education
> Verde Valley Campus
> 928-634-6544
> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>
> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>
> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>
> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
> Comments?!
>
>
> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
> Warning: (not named).
> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more
> information.
>
> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three
years)
> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance, particularly
if
> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at
> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I
would
> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a student
> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because
he/she
> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try to
> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
concept
> in a second language.
>
> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play a
> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned from
> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than classes).
> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.
It's
> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
teachers.
> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging me
> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're
> making some progress.
>
> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your
> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very
> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that
Dr.
> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of intensity of
> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities for
> professional development.
>
> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL student
> from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
>
> Please post your questions and comments now.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Marie Cora
> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>
>
> Marie Cora
> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
> < <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>  <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
> If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager.
> This message contains confidential information and is intended only for
the
> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>  <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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>
>
>
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From forrest at crosslink.net  Tue Feb  5 19:16:40 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 19:16:40 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1121] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <000001c8682f$3172ae10$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
References: <001001c867a1$b747c9f0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
	<000001c8682f$3172ae10$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <001201c86855$8e877510$ab965f30$@net>

Ted,

 

I like the list very much too, and hope you can answer Marie's questions.
Also, how large is your program, how many hours/week do classes meet, and
how would you "grade" your program using this list? What percentage of your
students advance a level (or more) in a year (or more)? You don't list
intensity and duration of instruction - two factors that Jodi Crandall and I
have found important. Do you find these important too, or do you think those
factors "wash out" if the principles you list are followed?

 

Forrest Chisman

Vice President

CAAL   

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 2:42 PM
To: Assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re: Observation checklist

 

Hi Ted,

 

Thanks for this.  This is a great list - did you generate it yourself?  

 

I guess I have a bunch of questions for you about it:

 

How do you use it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try to
address each item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do others you
work with?

 

Do you find that if you adhere to these principles, that the students
advance?

 

Marie

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Ted Klein
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!

Marie,

 

In the long run, this may be all that I know.

 

Ted

www.tedklein-ESL.com

 

 

20 Questions: LANGUAGE CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES           NO


 

1. Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?            

                                                            

2. Was the classroom comfortable in terms of                

   environment and learning atmosphere?                     

                                                            

3. Did the instructor have a pleasant and                   

   supportive personality?                                  

                                                            

4. Were the lessons communication centered,                 

   rather than informational, most of the time?             

                                                            

5. Was the instructor a native-speaker or                   

   near native-speaker of the target language?              

                                                            

6. Was the target language used as a medium                 

   of instruction all or most of the time?                  

                                                            

7. Did the students do most of the communication,           

   rather than the instructor?                              

                                                            

8. Did the instructor maintain control of the class         

   in a non-threatening manner?                             

                                                            

9. Did  members of the class seem compatible with each           

   other and the instructor?                                     

                                                                 

10. Did the students seem closely matched in their               

    target language proficiency?                                 

                                                                 

11. Did all of the students participate?                         

                                                                 

12. Were students enthusiastic?                                  

                                                                 

13. Did the instructor use a variety of techniques               

    to elicit communication activities?                          

                                                            

14. Did the instructor assist students, rather              

    than push them?                                         

                                                            

15. Did the instructor use normal, rather than              

    exaggerated speech?                                     

                                                            

16. Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce         

    results?                                                

                                                            

17. Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?     

                                                            

18. Was correction applied moderately and positively        

    so that it wouldn't inhibit communication?              

                                                            

19. Was there a balance of language skills (listening,      

    speaking, reading and writing?)                             

                                                            

20. Were students dealt with appropriately for their        

    ages? (e.g. adults treated like adults).

 


 

---- Original Message ----- 

From: Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>  

To: Assessment at nifl.gov 

Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50 PM

Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!

 

Hello everyone,

 

I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your
program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very
curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that Dr.
Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of intensity of
instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities for
professional development.

 

What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL student
from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?

 

Please post your questions and comments now.

 

Thanks!

 

Marie Cora

Assessment Discussion List Moderator

 

 

Marie Cora

 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator

http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

 

  _____  

-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com

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From forrest at crosslink.net  Tue Feb  5 20:21:02 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 20:21:02 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1122] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870AD26EA6@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
References: <048601c86788$c51e4e50$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
	<208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870AD26EA6@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
Message-ID: <003501c8685e$8c416690$a4c433b0$@net>

Amen, Jim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

The question is what to do about it. At CAAL we are gearing up to lobby
Congress and  states for more funding specifically targeted at ESL. There
are at least two problems in doing this. 1) The lack of a strong push from
the field  for changes in policy that will increase ESL-specific funding -
as opposed to just asking for "more" for adult education generally. The
existing professional organizations do the best they can, but I think they
need more grass roots support to create policy change. Too many ESL people
seem to be suffering in silence. 2) There seems to be no clear idea of how
much funding would be enough. Simply asking for "more" is less convincing
than coming up with a number and justifying it. Can any of you provide some
inputs into this? How much do you spend per student (or per FTE) in
non-credit ESL each year? How much would you have to spend to increase key
outcomes (retention, learning gains, and transitions)to the levels possible
by "the state of the art"  -- to do the best job you are capable of doing?
And what would be the components of that additional spending? These are not
hypothetical questions. We run into them whenever we advocate for "more" for
ESL. But it's hard to justify any particular numbers. In fact, there is no
reliable data I know of about how much per student (or FTE) is now being
spent, on average. The numbers that float around indicate that program
expenditures vary from a few hundred dollars to a few thousand per student
(or FTE) per year, and there isn't much information that correlates spending
levels with program outcomes. PLEASE, if any of you can tell us your present
spending levels and what you think you need (and why), post it here. You
will help us and your colleagues A LOT!

 

Beyond getting more total funding, the question is whether programs can use
the funding they have to get better results. Some programs effectively do
this by limiting the number of students they serve - spreading the existing
funds over fewer students, so that at least those served get the full
benefit of a first rate program with first rate teachers. Sometimes there
are policy barriers to this; sometimes not. Does this seem reasonable
alternative to any of you? 

 

Another approach is to go hunting for "hidden subsidies." I believe that one
advantage colleges have over other providers is that they have "spare cash"
or its equivalent available for programs that they chose to subsidize.
Sometimes this can entail outright distributions from "the general fund"
that augment state allocations. Sometimes it entails ramping up the level of
"in kind" services - such as guidance/counseling, IT support, physical
plant, etc. A few colleges we've seen have established "scholarships" for
ESL students who make transitions (sometimes in the form of partial tuition
waivers. Another tactic is to "classify" non-credit ESL as one of the
higher-reimbursement non-credit programs at the college - where there are
differentials in non-credit reimbursement (as here are, for example in
Illinois). Or classifying the upper levels of what would normally be
non-credit as "credit ESL."  Or making part-time non-credit teachers
eligible for more of the benefits (e.g. healthcare) or training
opportunities available to full time faculty (such as time and funds for
continuing education/professional development). Have any of you made use of
any of these tactics? Is there barriers to your doing so?

 

Finally, as Jodi mentions in her post, a few colleges charge for non-credit
ESL service. They aren't allowed to charge for programs that receive federal
funds, but they can arguably charge for programs solely supported by state
funds, and this distinction can be made if the state allows. While charging
for non-credit ESL may seem heresy, and it isn't possible for all students
to pay very much, we have been surprised by how many students are willing to
pay how much, rather than sit on waiting lists. Is this an approach in
policy or practice that should be expanded?

 

             

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Schneider, Jim
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 2:46 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1112] Re: No Questions or Comments?!

 

I have directed a downtown Adult Learning Center for our local community
college for 14 years. The #1 issue that inhibits the success of all of our
learners - ESL, ABE, or GED is funding and infrastructure. 

 

Funding puts severe limits on the pay that is available for instructors, the
hours that classes can be offered, and the support services that will be
available to the learners. 

 

The reality of funding limitations on our program result in 

 

- starting pay of $13.25 an hour, top pay of $15.25/hr  - which is not
competitive with K-12 substitute teachers, let alone highly qualified,
instructors with any significant ESL and/or adult education training. Our
instructors work hard and are committed to the learning of their students,
but with an extremely limited well of knowledge training to draw upon. 

 

- 4-10 hours a week for 38 weeks of the year also severely limits the pool
of interested instructors, as well as inhibiting the learning opportunities
of the students.  

 

Similar to others who have posted - we find that the higher the
literacy/education of the ESL student upon enrollment, the more likely they
are to progress and transition to additional education/training - which
isn't all that different from the U.S. born ABE students. 

 

We do have staff who do assist our learners transition to our short-term
vocational &  credit programs as one of several responsibilities. The
majority of ESL learners who have transitioned have done so via short-term
vocational programming - CNA, welding, etc.  Those who transitioned into a
credit program were again those who were well educated in their home
country. 

 

Bottom line is that adult literacy desperately needs a serious commitment of
funding, support and infrastructure from the federal, state and local levels
if meaningful learning is going to take place. The system does very well
considering the limitations placed upon it. Professional development
opportunities are meaningless if the system doesn't support professionals.
There isn't an NRS accountability measure that can create Cadillac-level
students with the current Yugo budgets. 

 

Sincerely, 

 

Jim Schneider

 

 

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:51 PM
To: Assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!

Hello everyone,

 

I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your
program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very
curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that Dr.
Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of intensity of
instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities for
professional development.

 

What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL student
from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?

 

Please post your questions and comments now.

 

Thanks!

 

Marie Cora

Assessment Discussion List Moderator

 

 

Marie Cora

 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator

http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

 

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From usha_narayanan at fuhsd.org  Tue Feb  5 20:22:20 2008
From: usha_narayanan at fuhsd.org (Usha Narayanan)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 17:22:20 -0800
Subject: [Assessment 1123] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <005a01c8683a$3395db30$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
Message-ID: <C3CE4BCC.8F31%usha_narayanan@fuhsd.org>

I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked the tool that
Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope that it  is not
something that has already been asked and answered.

The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of our ESL
classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal constraints and
the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a positive to
have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we expect to see more
than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the numbers.

As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy programs
because of many socio-economic factors.

In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing market (in past
several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to stay in one
neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen more in people
who do not have high levels of education from their native country).

People with a certain level of education (college degrees from their
countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some kind of
community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs, go in and out
of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of various
constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and have no time to
practice.  

The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in educational
levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the  availability
of  community resources.

Usha Narayanan
Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
California
408-522-2737


On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:

> Marie,
>  
> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and out of the U.S.A.
> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc. in ESL. It is
> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that I'm back in the
> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the Defense Language
> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching immigrants part time for
> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin Community
> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what language
> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to work at a higher
> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I apply
> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy traps." I
> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed interested and
> it is published on my website at
> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel absolutely free to use
> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank you very much for
> the input. Questions are welcome.
>  
> Cheers,   Ted
>  
>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>   Independent Consultant in Language
>          and Intercultural Training
>               14456 Agarita Road
>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>              Phone:512-266-1801
>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>              
>  
> ----- Original Message -----
>>  
>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>  
>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>  
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
>>  
>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
>>  
>> 
>>  
>>  
>> Hi  Ted,
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it yourself?
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try to
>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do others you
>> work with?
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the students
>> advance?
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> Marie
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Marie,
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Ted
>>>  
>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES            NO
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
>>>  
>>>                
>>>  
>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
>>>  
>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
>>>  
>>>                
>>>  
>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
>>>  
>>>    supportive personality?
>>>  
>>>                
>>>  
>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
>>>  
>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
>>>  
>>>                
>>>  
>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
>>>  
>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
>>>  
>>>                
>>>  
>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
>>>  
>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
>>>  
>>>                
>>>  
>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
>>>  
>>>    rather than the  instructor?
>>>  
>>>                
>>>  
>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
>>>  
>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
>>>  
>>>                
>>>  
>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
>>>  
>>>    other and the instructor?
>>>  
>>>                
>>>  
>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
>>>  
>>>     target language  proficiency?
>>>  
>>>                
>>>  
>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
>>>  
>>>                
>>>  
>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
>>>  
>>>                
>>>  
>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
>>>  
>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
>>>  
>>>                
>>>  
>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
>>>  
>>>     than push them?
>>>  
>>>                
>>>  
>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
>>>  
>>>     exaggerated speech?
>>>  
>>>                
>>>  
>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
>>>  
>>>     results?   
>>>  
>>>                
>>>  
>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
>>>  
>>>                
>>>  
>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
>>>  
>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
>>>  
>>>                
>>>  
>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
>>>  
>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
>>>  
>>>                
>>>  
>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
>>>  
>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
>>>  
>>>                
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> ---- Original Message -----
>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>  
>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>  
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
>>>>  
>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Hello  everyone,
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on  regarding your
>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??  I was very
>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that
>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of intensity
>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities
>>>> for  professional development.
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit the ESL student
>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>  
>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>  
>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>  
>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>>  
>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for  Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
> 
> 
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to usha_narayanan at fuhsd.org



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From forrest at crosslink.net  Tue Feb  5 20:28:05 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 20:28:05 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1124] Re: Factors affecting student advancement
In-Reply-To: <ACA5BF9B90F9A8469E885DB8089F6D7A037C55FC@CHMSEXP2.nycha.nyc.gov>
References: <002901c86831$399e9700$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
	<ACA5BF9B90F9A8469E885DB8089F6D7A037C55FC@CHMSEXP2.nycha.nyc.gov>
Message-ID: <003a01c8685f$889dbd80$99d93880$@net>

D'Andra,

Thanks for this. The "personal barriers to success" often fall through the
stools in discussions of adult education -- I suppose because they aren't
amenable to "educational" solutions, in the narrow sense of the term. Yet
they may well be the greatest barriers of all. Many teachers report spending
a lot of time doing "social work." But at the program level, we found too
few approaches to systematically addressing these problems. Have any of you
found ways to come to grips with them? Do you have any ideas about how to do
it?

Forrest Chisman
Vice President
CAAL    



-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Van Heusen-Thomas, D'Andra
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 5:35 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1118] Re: Factors affecting student advancement

As discussed, often times there are factors beyond educational levels
that impede the success of a native English speaker or ELL when trying
to achieve their higher education aspirations. There has to be a
multistoried approach to working with the adult student who, although
motivated, has those added pressures of family responsibility, work
(non-working or underemployed), money, lack of social and family
support, etc to contend with. Finding the time, energy and dedication
necessary to stay the course can be daunting especially if they've
achieved limited educational success in their native language. Now the
expectations are, if they want to have the "American Dream", they must
(on some level) master a new language (both oral and written). Add to
the mix low paid teachers and/or instructors or organizations with
limited or no access to workforce resources such as job readiness
training etc and the water become even muddier. 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 2:57 PM
To: Assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1111] Re: Factors affecting student advancement

Hi Gail, thanks for your post.

I think you raise some interesting issues to add to the list of items in
question.  You've noted that a student's educational experience often
seems to help, that perhaps the teacher's skill level could be at play,
and that small program's face many challenges that could exacerbate the
entire situation.

It's great to know that your program does its best to help you improve
your skills Gail.  At least you have that piece of the puzzle to an
extent.  

How about other factors that could cause problems?  Does anyone have
other things to add - and what you or your program tries to do to
address the issues?

Thanks!

Marie

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Gail Burnett
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 8:35 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
orComments?!

Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
Warning: (not named).
Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more
information.

In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three
years) is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
particularly if they're not working too many hours. Those who advance
the slowest, if at all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their
first language. I would say that lack of education is a bigger factor
than lack of time; a student who works full-time and is exhausted often
will still succeed because he/she is familiar with academic work, and is
goal-oriented. What we do is try to get our low-level students to come
up with goals, but that's a hard concept in a second language. 
 
This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play
a part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned
from another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
classes). My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow
advancement. It's hard for small adult education programs to get highly
skilled ESL teachers. The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my
program is encouraging me to get extra training and has me on a plan of
improvement. I think we're making some progress.
 
Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
To: Assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!


Hello everyone,
 
I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your
program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very
curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that
Dr. Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
intensity of instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
opportunities for professional development.
 
What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
student from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
 
Please post your questions and comments now.
 
Thanks!
 
Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
 
 
Marie Cora
marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> 
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
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Email delivered to forrest at crosslink.net



From crandall at umbc.edu  Tue Feb  5 22:23:03 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 22:23:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <C3CE4BCC.8F31%usha_narayanan@fuhsd.org>
References: <C3CE4BCC.8F31%usha_narayanan@fuhsd.org>
Message-ID: <52294.130.85.83.224.1202268183.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>

Usha,

I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
experience that with more than 10 students, learning decreases?  If so,
how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be interested
in ways to decrease class size.

It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more important
to involve them in activities in which all get to participate, which means
less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small classes
need that.

What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?

You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop out of
classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any of you keep
records of your students that would identify those who do return?  Do you
have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning English
outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know of any
research about adult English Language Learners in this area, but there is
an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State University
following adult literacy level students for several years.  They have
identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside of the
classroom and also that some of these learners come back to classes after
being out of them for some time.

Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of you been
able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of these
services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have been most
effective? If you teach in a community college, have your students had
access to the various support services provided to other students?

Several of you have talked about the differences in progress made by
students with more advanced education and those who are at literacy level.
 Because literacy level students take longer in making progress, most
programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and literate
beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and literacy will
need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to talk about
what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about persistence
of literacy level students and their learning gains.

Students with advanced education in their own language may be able to have
a condensed program since they are already experienced as students and
often have high motivation to get through English so that they can take
courses related to their previous or future career.  City College of San
Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters worth of
work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer something along
these lines?

Jodi


> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked the tool that
> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope that it  is
> not
> something that has already been asked and answered.
>
> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of our ESL
> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal constraints and
> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a positive to
> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we expect to see
> more
> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the numbers.
>
> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy programs
> because of many socio-economic factors.
>
> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing market (in past
> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to stay in one
> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen more in people
> who do not have high levels of education from their native country).
>
> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from their
> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some kind of
> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs, go in and
> out
> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of various
> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and have no time to
> practice.
>
> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in educational
> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
> availability
> of  community resources.
>
> Usha Narayanan
> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
> California
> 408-522-2737
>
>
> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Marie,
>>
>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and out of the
>> U.S.A.
>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc. in ESL. It
>> is
>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that I'm back
>> in the
>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the Defense
>> Language
>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching immigrants part
>> time for
>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin
>> Community
>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what language
>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to work at a
>> higher
>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I apply
>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy traps."
>> I
>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
>> interested and
>> it is published on my website at
>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel absolutely free
>> to use
>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank you very
>> much for
>> the input. Questions are welcome.
>>
>> Cheers,   Ted
>>
>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>>   Independent Consultant in Language
>>          and Intercultural Training
>>               14456 Agarita Road
>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>>              Phone:512-266-1801
>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>
>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
>>>
>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi  Ted,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it yourself?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try to
>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do others
>>> you
>>> work with?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the students
>>> advance?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Marie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marie,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ted
>>>>
>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
>>>>  NO
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
>>>>
>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
>>>>
>>>>    supportive personality?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
>>>>
>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
>>>>
>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
>>>>
>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
>>>>
>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
>>>>
>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
>>>>
>>>>    other and the instructor?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
>>>>
>>>>     target language  proficiency?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
>>>>
>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
>>>>
>>>>     than push them?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
>>>>
>>>>     exaggerated speech?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
>>>>
>>>>     results?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
>>>>
>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
>>>>
>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
>>>>
>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello  everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on  regarding your
>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??  I was
>>>>> very
>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
>>>>> that
>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
>>>>> intensity
>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
>>>>> opportunities
>>>>> for  professional development.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>>>>> student
>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>
>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>
>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>> Assessment mailing list
>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to usha_narayanan at fuhsd.org
>
>
>
> Scanned by Barracuda Spam Firewall
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
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> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>


-- 
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html





From jschneider at eicc.edu  Tue Feb  5 23:29:42 2008
From: jschneider at eicc.edu (Schneider, Jim)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 22:29:42 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1126] Re: Intensity of Instruction and funding of adult
	ESLprograms
References: <52106.130.85.83.224.1202247058.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB8708AA1FF6@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>


At our cc based adult learning center we do not charge any fees for instruction. 

We have dabbled with the managed enrollment, however our institution is driven by enrollment and contact hours so that we simply cannot afford to operate in a managed enrollment fashion. I do believe that it is better for the teachers and students. Unfortunately, operating in a strict fashion, our enrollment took close to a 50% reduction. Still, recognizing the value of the concept, the past two years we have attempted a semi-managed enrollment. In the fall we have a 3 week enrollment period and then hold classes with no additional students for 5 weeks. Then an additional 3 week open enrollment followed by no new students for 5 weeks. Ideally, we would operate in this fashion year round providing some sense of continuity for the instructors and learners. Unfortunately, student attendance waxes and wanes due to employment, weather, transportation, etc. and in each year we attempted this we held to it through the second 5 weeks and then abandon it for the remainder of the year because student attendance/enrollment declined  to the point that we had to enroll any learner whenever they were interested to meet our enrollment goals. 

The bulk of our english learners enroll in the three levels of morning classes which meet Monday through Thursday from 8:30 until 11 a.m.. Our evening program has varied from 2-3 levels. Evening classes meet Monday and Wednesday from 6 to 8 p.m.. Both morning and evening classes are offered for approximately 38 weeks through the fall and spring semesters. 

These offerings are "how we have always done it" and are somewhat bound by the available funds. 

Jim, "I like the sound of eloquent" Schneider

Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Sent: Tue 2/5/2008 3:30 PM
To: Assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1116] Intensity of Instruction and funding of adult ESLprograms
 

Hi, everyone.  It has been interesting reading the postings today and want
to respond to some of them now.  I just learned from Forrest that his
Internet Service Provider is down, but he expects to be back on line
either tonight or tomorrow.  He'll add his comments later.

In the meantime, let me respond to a couple of themes that have emerged in
the discussion.

Jackie asked what we meant by "intensity of instruction" and Marie
provided a definition from an excellent publication from the Center for
Applied Linguistics which analyzes the effects of instructional hours and
intensity of instruction on NRS level gains in  listening and speaking.

In our study, we define "intensity of instruction" as the number of hours
per week and differentiate it from "duration" which is the total number of
hours for the program.
We think both intensity and duration are important.  It is important to
have enough hours per week of instruction, but also important that there
be enough weeks.  Programs in the 5 community colleges we studied varied
from 3 to 20 hours per week of instruction, with 10 hours/week considered
"semi-intensive" and 20 hours/week as "intensive" instruction.

As Jim so eloquently put it, there are some basic reasons why programs
might not offer as many hours of instruction per week as they want to,
with funding being at the root of many of the reasons.

Forrest and I would be interested in knowing how many hours per week your
various programs meet (and for how many weeks) and how you determined that
schedule.  Have you tried more intense programs for shorter periods of
time?  What has been the impact on attendance?

Have any of you provided adult ESL/ESOL programs that charge a fee?  We
were surprised to learn of such a program at Bunker Hill Community
College.  They provide free adult ESOL and also a fee-based program in an
attempt to accommodate more learners.  They found that at least some
learners were able to pay the fee and thus they were able to serve more
learners.

We'd also like to know if your programs are open-entry/open-exit, with
learners coming to class when they can and sometimes leaving for several
classes before they return, or if you have tried some kind of "managed
enrollment" with attendance expectations of those who are enrolled in your
classes.  Several community colleges have experimented with this approach
and have found it effective.  I know that Forrest will have more to say
about this.

I have to go teach, but when I return, I'd like to talk a bit about issues
surrounding literacy and prior education.

Jodi Crandall


-------------------------------
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From forrest at crosslink.net  Wed Feb  6 02:33:15 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 02:33:15 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1127] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <52294.130.85.83.224.1202268183.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
References: <C3CE4BCC.8F31%usha_narayanan@fuhsd.org>
	<52294.130.85.83.224.1202268183.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <000001c86892$8c674070$a535c150$@net>

Gee, Jodi, thanks for setting me up! And thanks for your other comments in
this posting (which I wish I had made). 

What we found at CCSF was that students who began at the Literacy Level
persisted longer (on average) and advanced more levels (on average) than did
students who began at any other level,  although it took them longer (on
average) to advance each level. Regrettably CCSF did not have data on level
of prior education for most of its students. Also their Literacy Level
students may not be typical. They have a large Chinese population, and some
members of that population would initially be placed in the Literacy level
simply to learn the English alphabet and to get a start on other major
linguistic differences if they had no English background, regardless of
prior education. More importantly, we found that students who began at the
Literacy and Low Beginning  levels were more likely to advance more levels
than were other students, but only about 20% of students who started at the
Literacy of Low Beginning Levels advanced more than two levels over a 7-year
time period. Does that jibe with experiences elsewhere?   

Okay?

Also, it's important to note that few of the students in the Reder
longitudinal study are ESL students. So we really need more research on ESL
learning by students outside the classroom and post-program. Among the
things we need to know more about is the learning of "stop-outs" -- students
who enroll, drop out, and re-enroll -- while they are absent from the
program. The CCSF research showed that a significant percentage of students
stopped out (for about two years on average). Most of them re-enrolled at
the same level where they had previously been placed (suggesting no learning
gain, or possibly learning loss). Also, while they advanced the same number
of levels as other students who began at the same level, it took them more
terms to do so. But we don't consider this definitive, because the finding
may be partly an artifact of placement procedures. It is possible that
students learn a lot of English outside the classroom, but the Census
reports an increasingly large number of linguistically isolated households,
neighborhoods, and jobs, so this effect may be diminishing. It's important
to find out.  

Forrest     

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 10:23 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist

Usha,

I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
experience that with more than 10 students, learning decreases?  If so,
how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be interested
in ways to decrease class size.

It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more important
to involve them in activities in which all get to participate, which means
less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small classes
need that.

What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?

You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop out of
classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any of you keep
records of your students that would identify those who do return?  Do you
have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning English
outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know of any
research about adult English Language Learners in this area, but there is
an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State University
following adult literacy level students for several years.  They have
identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside of the
classroom and also that some of these learners come back to classes after
being out of them for some time.

Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of you been
able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of these
services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have been most
effective? If you teach in a community college, have your students had
access to the various support services provided to other students?

Several of you have talked about the differences in progress made by
students with more advanced education and those who are at literacy level.
 Because literacy level students take longer in making progress, most
programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and literate
beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and literacy will
need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to talk about
what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about persistence
of literacy level students and their learning gains.

Students with advanced education in their own language may be able to have
a condensed program since they are already experienced as students and
often have high motivation to get through English so that they can take
courses related to their previous or future career.  City College of San
Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters worth of
work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer something along
these lines?

Jodi


> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked the tool that
> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope that it  is
> not
> something that has already been asked and answered.
>
> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of our ESL
> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal constraints and
> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a positive to
> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we expect to see
> more
> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the numbers.
>
> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy programs
> because of many socio-economic factors.
>
> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing market (in past
> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to stay in one
> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen more in people
> who do not have high levels of education from their native country).
>
> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from their
> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some kind of
> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs, go in and
> out
> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of various
> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and have no time to
> practice.
>
> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in educational
> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
> availability
> of  community resources.
>
> Usha Narayanan
> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
> California
> 408-522-2737
>
>
> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Marie,
>>
>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and out of the
>> U.S.A.
>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc. in ESL. It
>> is
>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that I'm back
>> in the
>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the Defense
>> Language
>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching immigrants part
>> time for
>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin
>> Community
>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what language
>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to work at a
>> higher
>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I apply
>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy traps."
>> I
>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
>> interested and
>> it is published on my website at
>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel absolutely free
>> to use
>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank you very
>> much for
>> the input. Questions are welcome.
>>
>> Cheers,   Ted
>>
>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>>   Independent Consultant in Language
>>          and Intercultural Training
>>               14456 Agarita Road
>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>>              Phone:512-266-1801
>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>
>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
>>>
>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi  Ted,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it yourself?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try to
>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do others
>>> you
>>> work with?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the students
>>> advance?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Marie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marie,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ted
>>>>
>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
>>>>  NO
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
>>>>
>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
>>>>
>>>>    supportive personality?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
>>>>
>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
>>>>
>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
>>>>
>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
>>>>
>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
>>>>
>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
>>>>
>>>>    other and the instructor?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
>>>>
>>>>     target language  proficiency?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
>>>>
>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
>>>>
>>>>     than push them?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
>>>>
>>>>     exaggerated speech?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
>>>>
>>>>     results?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
>>>>
>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
>>>>
>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
>>>>
>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello  everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on  regarding your
>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??  I was
>>>>> very
>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
>>>>> that
>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
>>>>> intensity
>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
>>>>> opportunities
>>>>> for  professional development.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>>>>> student
>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>
>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>
>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>> Assessment mailing list
>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to usha_narayanan at fuhsd.org
>
>
>
> Scanned by Barracuda Spam Firewall
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>


-- 
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html



-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to forrest at crosslink.net



From jackie.coelho at gmail.com  Wed Feb  6 07:01:15 2008
From: jackie.coelho at gmail.com (Jackie Coelho)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 07:01:15 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
	Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <000d01c86854$6e1dfde0$4a59f9a0$@net>
References: <1dd5701e0802051006i6f9e4473wcc9aa9810ca65f7c@mail.gmail.com>
	<OF56C5D320.83B8357C-ON072573E6.0065B469-072573E6.0065D41F@yc.edu>
	<000d01c86854$6e1dfde0$4a59f9a0$@net>
Message-ID: <1dd5701e0802060401r7fe15e6apb5e2af1d1564f98a@mail.gmail.com>

Forrest,
   I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy background
and those without. These two groups have such different needs. Having both
in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs of either
group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate the class,
and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor does not keep up
with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they often become
frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the instructor keeps
up with those students, the others are unable to keep up and they get
frustrated.
  I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of
how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.
Jackie


On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:
>
>  To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in
> student performance:
>
>
>
> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly
> educated students do better in terms of  persistence, learning gains, and
> transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably
> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education
> makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of their
> students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That is, do
> you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education makes? Or
> any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior education that
> seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are completely illiterate,
> students who at least reached high school, high school graduates, college
> graduates, etc. --  or is level of prior education pretty much of a
> continuum?
>
>
>
> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly
> educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably students
> with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower level
> ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by
> definition)  in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes math.
> Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at these
> levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be desirable
> to place less highly educated students in separate classes from those with
> more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for them
> accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or the
> Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these
> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of "bi-lingual
> education" that should be tried?
>
>
>
> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the
> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of
> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large
> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means), ESL
> programs may be swamped with students who have very little education in
> their native countries and too little money to serve them.  So anyone who
> has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a lot
> by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.
>
>
>
> Forrest Chisman
>
> Vice President
>
> CAAL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] *On
> Behalf Of *Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
> *To:* The Assessment Discussion List
> *Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
> Comments?!
>
>
>
>
> Hi Jackie,
>
> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my
> former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual education in
> the K-12 school system.
>
> Tina
>
> Tina Luffman
> Coordinator, Developmental Education
> Verde Valley Campus
> 928-634-6544
> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>
>   *"Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>*
> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>
> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM
>
> Please respond to
> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
>
> To
>
> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>
> cc
>
> Subject
>
> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
>  Comments?!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Tina,
>
> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in
> favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in
> the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation
> in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second
> or third language.
>
> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not
> written.
>
> Jackie
>
>
> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:
> > Hi list members,
> >
> > My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to that
> of
> > Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country
> they
> > came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather quickly
> and
> > get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their country
> or
> > lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much
> > advancement.
> >
> > This experience relates well to research done among Native American
> tribes
> > teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
> literacy
> > skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who
> tried
> > to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their own
> > tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The
> > concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much
> easier
> > to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this is
> > something deserving more research.
> >
> > Tina
> > Tina Luffman
> > Coordinator, Developmental Education
> > Verde Valley Campus
> > 928-634-6544
> > tina_luffman at yc.edu
> >
> > -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
> >
> > To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
> > From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>
> > Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
> > Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
> > Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
> > Comments?!
> >
> >
> > Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
> > Warning: (not named).
> > Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more
> > information.
> >
> > In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three
> years)
> > is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
> particularly if
> > they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at
> > all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I
> would
> > say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a
> student
> > who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because
> he/she
> > is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try
> to
> > get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
> concept
> > in a second language.
> >
> > This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play
> a
> > part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned
> from
> > another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
> classes).
> > My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.
> It's
> > hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
> teachers.
> > The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging
> me
> > to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're
> > making some progress.
> >
> > Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
> > Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
> > To: Assessment at nifl.gov
> > Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
> >
> >
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your
> > program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very
> > curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that
> Dr.
> > Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of intensity
> of
> > instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities
> for
> > professional development.
> >
> > What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
> student
> > from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
> >
> > Please post your questions and comments now.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Marie Cora
> > Assessment Discussion List Moderator
> >
> >
> > Marie Cora
> > marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
> > <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
> > NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
> > <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> >
> >
> > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
> intended
> > solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
> addressed.
> > If you have received this email in error please notify the system
> manager.
> > This message contains confidential information and is intended only for
> the
> > individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
> > disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
> > -------------------------------
> > National Institute for Literacy
> > Assessment mailing list
> > Assessment at nifl.gov
> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> > <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> > Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------
> > National Institute for Literacy
> > Assessment mailing list
> > Assessment at nifl.gov
> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> > <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> > Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
> <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>
>
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From andresmuro at aol.com  Wed Feb  6 08:28:29 2008
From: andresmuro at aol.com (andresmuro at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 08:28:29 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1129] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
 Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <1dd5701e0802060401r7fe15e6apb5e2af1d1564f98a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1dd5701e0802051006i6f9e4473wcc9aa9810ca65f7c@mail.gmail.com>	<OF56C5D320.83B8357C-ON072573E6.0065B469-072573E6.0065D41F@yc.edu>	<000d01c86854$6e1dfde0$4a59f9a0$@net>
	<1dd5701e0802060401r7fe15e6apb5e2af1d1564f98a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8CA36DB4BFA2167-E5C-2BC8@WEBMAIL-MA05.sysops.aol.com>


 Problem is that in many ESL people are placed in ESL classes based on an English placement multiple choice test. A student with advanced education in L1 and one with little education in L1 may know very little English and they may both be placed in the same level. The student with advance education will progress much faster than the one with little education. The advanced L1 student will understand concepts like sentence, paragraph, verb, subject, direct object, adjective, composition and essay readily. The one with with little education will need to understand these concepts. It takes a while for people to master these concepts. A highly educated L2? learner will likely progress faster academically in a second language than a fluent native speaker of that? language with limited academic education, for the same reason. This is observed regularly in universities all over the US. highly educated foreign students who acquired English as L2 recently will do better than their English speaking counterparts in academic tasks in English. Jim Cummins has articulated this clearly with his BICS and CALPS. 

In our program at El Paso Community College we have found evidence of this. We stopped doing literacy ESL a while back for this reason. The college has an academic ESL program. Instead of doing ESL literacy we started offering Spanish Literacy and GED many years ago since the vast majority of our students are Spanish speakers. Once our students acquire their Spanish GED they transition into the ESL program and do better than those students who don't have L1 academic skills. Even if takes them a while to acquire the L1 literacy, they will do better. Those with no L1 literacy often stay in ESL forever and they drop out, start again in another program, drop out and continue the same pattern. I think that this happens because of the mixture of academically ready students and those that are not ready, since most ESL programs focus on traditional academics. For L1 low literacy students to be able to progress in L2 there has to be a program specifically designed for them that teaches skills in L2 in new and innovative ways without interference from academically skilled L1 students. Right now we don't have a system that systematically does this, and the WIA/NRS system prevents this form happening.

Hope that this makes sense,

Andres




 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jackie Coelho <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 5:01 am
Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!










Forrest,


?? I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy background and those without. These two groups have such different needs. Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs of either group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor does not keep up with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they often become frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the instructor keeps up with those students, the others are unable to keep up and they get frustrated. 



? I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.


Jackie

?


On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:







To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in student performance:


?


Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly educated students do better in terms of ?persistence, learning gains, and transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education makes? Or any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior education that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are completely illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high school graduates, college graduates, etc. -- ?or is level of prior education pretty much of a continuum?



?


More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably students with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by definition) ?in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes math. Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be desirable to place less highly educated students in separate classes from those with more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for them accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or the Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of "bi-lingual education" that should be tried? 



?


It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means), ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very little education in their native countries and too little money to serve them. ?So anyone who has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a lot by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.



?


Forrest Chisman


Vice President


CAAL


?


??


?




From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu

Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!






?



Hi Jackie, 

Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual education in the K-12 school system. 


Tina 

Tina Luffman
Coordinator, Developmental Education
Verde Valley Campus
928-634-6544
tina_luffman at yc.edu 













"Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com> 

Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 


02/05/2008 11:13 AM 










Please respond to
The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>


















To





"The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov> 









cc












Subject





[Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or ? ? ? ?Comments?!






?


























Hi Tina,

This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in
favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in

the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation
in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second
or third language.

Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not written.


Jackie


On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:

> Hi list members,
>
> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to that of
> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country they

> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather quickly and
> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their country or
> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much

> advancement.
>
> This experience relates well to research done among Native American tribes
> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught literacy

> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who tried
> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their own
> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The

> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much easier
> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this is
> something deserving more research.

>
> Tina
> Tina Luffman
> Coordinator, Developmental Education
> Verde Valley Campus
> 928-634-6544
> tina_luffman at yc.edu

>
> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>
> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>

> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>
> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov

> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
> Comments?!
>
>
> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed

> Warning: (not named).
> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more
> information.
>
> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three years)

> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance, particularly if
> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at
> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I would

> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a student
> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because he/she
> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try to

> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard concept
> in a second language.
>
> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play a

> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned from
> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than classes).
> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement. It's

> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL teachers.
> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging me
> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're

> making some progress.
>
> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
>
> ________________________________
>

> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM

> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!

>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm so surprised! ?No one has anything to comment on regarding your
> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? ?I was very

> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that Dr.
> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research: ?a lack of intensity of
> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities for

> professional development.
>
> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL student
> from advancing? ?What do you try to do about that?
>

> Please post your questions and comments now.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Marie Cora
> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>
>

> Marie Cora
> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>

> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

>
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
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> If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager.

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From taklein at austin.rr.com  Wed Feb  6 08:58:00 2008
From: taklein at austin.rr.com (Ted Klein)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 07:58:00 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1130] Re: Observation checklist
References: <C3CE4BCC.8F31%usha_narayanan@fuhsd.org>
	<52294.130.85.83.224.1202268183.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <001e01c868c8$49636de0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>

Hi Jodi,

Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times in the past, I think at least once when you visited the Defense Language Institute English Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I mention DLI is that it represents a language program with little leeway to fail. I spent 20 years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is to train allied and friendly military personnel worldwide in general and specialized English. Most students start ESL in their home countries with DLIELC personnel advising, and in some cases teaching, in these overseas military language centers. It may still be the largest language program in the world. Students after reaching certain levels go to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, complete their general English, usually go through specialized terminology and then on to whatever training their country needs with the U.S. military. Students have run the full gamut from recruits and NCO's up to generals and admirals. This is a very tightly organized "well-packaged" language program with predictable training times and results.

Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb while I was at at DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum. This was rarely broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters' bean counter would calculate that if a mere two or three students could be added to a class, voila, look at the money we would save! This money came both from foreign governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue and then try it, I believe several times over the years. However, in an organization that has a very effective testing system; both achievement and proficiency, it was soon noticed that the scores were going down, just enough so that they could prove that no money was being saved on teacher salaries and other expenses. I spent three years with the Royal Thai Navy for DLI as language training advisor and remember having to twist arms with the RTN Navy Education Department with the same problem. They wanted 15 in a class.

Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during my last eight years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes have consistently been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an organization is stuck with a low budget, make the hours of training per week lower, but keep the class sizes within 10 or so students. Fewer hours of really effective training are certainly better than large classes where the student attention level and collegiality are reduced. I remember Mary Finocchiaro saying years ago that she didn't care how many students were in her classroom, she would teach them! Unfortunately, most of us just aren't THAT dynamic.

Cheers,  Ted
www.tedklein-ESL.com



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM
Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist


Usha,

I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
experience that with more than 10 students, learning decreases?  If so,
how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be interested
in ways to decrease class size.

It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more important
to involve them in activities in which all get to participate, which means
less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small classes
need that.

What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?

You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop out of
classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any of you keep
records of your students that would identify those who do return?  Do you
have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning English
outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know of any
research about adult English Language Learners in this area, but there is
an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State University
following adult literacy level students for several years.  They have
identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside of the
classroom and also that some of these learners come back to classes after
being out of them for some time.

Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of you been
able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of these
services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have been most
effective? If you teach in a community college, have your students had
access to the various support services provided to other students?

Several of you have talked about the differences in progress made by
students with more advanced education and those who are at literacy level.
 Because literacy level students take longer in making progress, most
programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and literate
beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and literacy will
need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to talk about
what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about persistence
of literacy level students and their learning gains.

Students with advanced education in their own language may be able to have
a condensed program since they are already experienced as students and
often have high motivation to get through English so that they can take
courses related to their previous or future career.  City College of San
Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters worth of
work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer something along
these lines?

Jodi


> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked the tool that
> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope that it  is
> not
> something that has already been asked and answered.
>
> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of our ESL
> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal constraints and
> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a positive to
> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we expect to see
> more
> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the numbers.
>
> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy programs
> because of many socio-economic factors.
>
> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing market (in past
> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to stay in one
> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen more in people
> who do not have high levels of education from their native country).
>
> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from their
> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some kind of
> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs, go in and
> out
> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of various
> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and have no time to
> practice.
>
> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in educational
> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
> availability
> of  community resources.
>
> Usha Narayanan
> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
> California
> 408-522-2737
>
>
> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Marie,
>>
>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and out of the
>> U.S.A.
>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc. in ESL. It
>> is
>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that I'm back
>> in the
>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the Defense
>> Language
>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching immigrants part
>> time for
>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin
>> Community
>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what language
>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to work at a
>> higher
>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I apply
>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy traps."
>> I
>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
>> interested and
>> it is published on my website at
>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel absolutely free
>> to use
>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank you very
>> much for
>> the input. Questions are welcome.
>>
>> Cheers,   Ted
>>
>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>>   Independent Consultant in Language
>>          and Intercultural Training
>>               14456 Agarita Road
>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>>              Phone:512-266-1801
>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>
>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
>>>
>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi  Ted,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it yourself?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try to
>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do others
>>> you
>>> work with?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the students
>>> advance?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Marie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marie,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ted
>>>>
>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
>>>>  NO
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
>>>>
>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
>>>>
>>>>    supportive personality?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
>>>>
>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
>>>>
>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
>>>>
>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
>>>>
>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
>>>>
>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
>>>>
>>>>    other and the instructor?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
>>>>
>>>>     target language  proficiency?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
>>>>
>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
>>>>
>>>>     than push them?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
>>>>
>>>>     exaggerated speech?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
>>>>
>>>>     results?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
>>>>
>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
>>>>
>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
>>>>
>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello  everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on  regarding your
>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??  I was
>>>>> very
>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
>>>>> that
>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
>>>>> intensity
>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
>>>>> opportunities
>>>>> for  professional development.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>>>>> student
>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>
>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>
>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>> Assessment mailing list
>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to usha_narayanan at fuhsd.org
>
>
>
> Scanned by Barracuda Spam Firewall
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> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>


-- 
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html



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From jschneider at eicc.edu  Wed Feb  6 09:39:03 2008
From: jschneider at eicc.edu (Schneider, Jim)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 08:39:03 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1131] Re: Observation checklist
References: <C3CE4BCC.8F31%usha_narayanan@fuhsd.org><52294.130.85.83.224.1202268183.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
	<000001c86892$8c674070$a535c150$@net>
Message-ID: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB8708AA1FF7@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>

<Dr. Chisman wrote: More importantly, we found that students who began at the
Literacy and Low Beginning  levels were more likely to advance more levels
than were other students, but only about 20% of students who started at the
Literacy of Low Beginning Levels advanced more than two levels over a 7-year
time period. Does that jibe with experiences elsewhere?>

Yes it does. Those at the lower levels have the most ground to make up and do tend to advance more levels as a result. The 20% is also quite accurate. Our learner come with their own goals and life realities and expectancies. Most of those who linger and make more levels have the economic ability to do so. The reality for most though is that they come to class to learn enough English to get a job. It is our hope that we can keep them long enough to be able to understand their job safety and SOP's. Far too often they leave before this with tragic results from an work-related accident that likely would have been prevented with stronger English skills. 

We award Basic Skills Certificates as our learners advance levels. One of my favorite students was a working father - he pushed a broom at a local iron forge making minimum wage. At enrollment his reading was a CASAS 170, he had only attended school 4 years, and communication was a challenge.  

After a year and a half, he earned his "B" level reading certificate (215), and though far from fluent, communication was significantly improved. When he took the certificate to show his supervisor at work, the supervisor took him to personnel, and they advanced him to an  apprenticeship - which came with a hefty raise. He hasn't been back to class because he can now provide for his family in a way that he once could only dream of. 

I am sure that with his intelligence and work ethic he could have been successful in any number of programs. However, as is so common with ALL community college students, they know what they want and once they attain that, they depart. It is important that we do all we can to make them aware of the opportunities and provide comprehensive transition assistance. The best information and transitioning program in the world will still be limited by the realities and expectancies of the learner. 

Jim Schneider




-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Wed 2/6/2008 1:33 AM
To: 'Jodi Crandall'; 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1127] Re: Observation checklist
 
Gee, Jodi, thanks for setting me up! And thanks for your other comments in
this posting (which I wish I had made). 

What we found at CCSF was that students who began at the Literacy Level
persisted longer (on average) and advanced more levels (on average) than did
students who began at any other level,  although it took them longer (on
average) to advance each level. Regrettably CCSF did not have data on level
of prior education for most of its students. Also their Literacy Level
students may not be typical. They have a large Chinese population, and some
members of that population would initially be placed in the Literacy level
simply to learn the English alphabet and to get a start on other major
linguistic differences if they had no English background, regardless of
prior education. More importantly, we found that students who began at the
Literacy and Low Beginning  levels were more likely to advance more levels
than were other students, but only about 20% of students who started at the
Literacy of Low Beginning Levels advanced more than two levels over a 7-year
time period. Does that jibe with experiences elsewhere?   

Okay?

Also, it's important to note that few of the students in the Reder
longitudinal study are ESL students. So we really need more research on ESL
learning by students outside the classroom and post-program. Among the
things we need to know more about is the learning of "stop-outs" -- students
who enroll, drop out, and re-enroll -- while they are absent from the
program. The CCSF research showed that a significant percentage of students
stopped out (for about two years on average). Most of them re-enrolled at
the same level where they had previously been placed (suggesting no learning
gain, or possibly learning loss). Also, while they advanced the same number
of levels as other students who began at the same level, it took them more
terms to do so. But we don't consider this definitive, because the finding
may be partly an artifact of placement procedures. It is possible that
students learn a lot of English outside the classroom, but the Census
reports an increasingly large number of linguistically isolated households,
neighborhoods, and jobs, so this effect may be diminishing. It's important
to find out.  

Forrest     

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 10:23 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist

Usha,

I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
experience that with more than 10 students, learning decreases?  If so,
how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be interested
in ways to decrease class size.

It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more important
to involve them in activities in which all get to participate, which means
less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small classes
need that.

What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?

You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop out of
classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any of you keep
records of your students that would identify those who do return?  Do you
have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning English
outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know of any
research about adult English Language Learners in this area, but there is
an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State University
following adult literacy level students for several years.  They have
identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside of the
classroom and also that some of these learners come back to classes after
being out of them for some time.

Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of you been
able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of these
services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have been most
effective? If you teach in a community college, have your students had
access to the various support services provided to other students?

Several of you have talked about the differences in progress made by
students with more advanced education and those who are at literacy level.
 Because literacy level students take longer in making progress, most
programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and literate
beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and literacy will
need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to talk about
what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about persistence
of literacy level students and their learning gains.

Students with advanced education in their own language may be able to have
a condensed program since they are already experienced as students and
often have high motivation to get through English so that they can take
courses related to their previous or future career.  City College of San
Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters worth of
work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer something along
these lines?

Jodi


> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked the tool that
> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope that it  is
> not
> something that has already been asked and answered.
>
> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of our ESL
> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal constraints and
> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a positive to
> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we expect to see
> more
> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the numbers.
>
> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy programs
> because of many socio-economic factors.
>
> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing market (in past
> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to stay in one
> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen more in people
> who do not have high levels of education from their native country).
>
> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from their
> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some kind of
> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs, go in and
> out
> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of various
> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and have no time to
> practice.
>
> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in educational
> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
> availability
> of  community resources.
>
> Usha Narayanan
> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
> California
> 408-522-2737
>
>
> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Marie,
>>
>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and out of the
>> U.S.A.
>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc. in ESL. It
>> is
>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that I'm back
>> in the
>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the Defense
>> Language
>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching immigrants part
>> time for
>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin
>> Community
>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what language
>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to work at a
>> higher
>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I apply
>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy traps."
>> I
>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
>> interested and
>> it is published on my website at
>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel absolutely free
>> to use
>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank you very
>> much for
>> the input. Questions are welcome.
>>
>> Cheers,   Ted
>>
>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>>   Independent Consultant in Language
>>          and Intercultural Training
>>               14456 Agarita Road
>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>>              Phone:512-266-1801
>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>
>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
>>>
>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi  Ted,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it yourself?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try to
>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do others
>>> you
>>> work with?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the students
>>> advance?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Marie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marie,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ted
>>>>
>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
>>>>  NO
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
>>>>
>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
>>>>
>>>>    supportive personality?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
>>>>
>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
>>>>
>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
>>>>
>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
>>>>
>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
>>>>
>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
>>>>
>>>>    other and the instructor?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
>>>>
>>>>     target language  proficiency?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
>>>>
>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
>>>>
>>>>     than push them?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
>>>>
>>>>     exaggerated speech?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
>>>>
>>>>     results?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
>>>>
>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
>>>>
>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
>>>>
>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello  everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on  regarding your
>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??  I was
>>>>> very
>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
>>>>> that
>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
>>>>> intensity
>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
>>>>> opportunities
>>>>> for  professional development.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>>>>> student
>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>
>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>
>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>> Assessment mailing list
>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to usha_narayanan at fuhsd.org
>
>
>
> Scanned by Barracuda Spam Firewall
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>


-- 
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html





More importantly, we found that students who began at the
Literacy and Low Beginning  levels were more likely to advance more levels
than were other students, but only about 20% of students who started at the
Literacy of Low Beginning Levels advanced more than two levels over a 7-year
time period. Does that jibe with experiences elsewhere?  
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From forrest at crosslink.net  Wed Feb  6 11:07:57 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 11:07:57 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1132] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <001e01c868c8$49636de0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
References: <C3CE4BCC.8F31%usha_narayanan@fuhsd.org>	<52294.130.85.83.224.1202268183.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
	<001e01c868c8$49636de0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
Message-ID: <000401c868da$73827d70$5a877850$@net>

Ted,

 

This is fascinating stuff. Jodi will probably have more questions about it
than I do. (Jodi take note!) My major question is how far one can generalize
from the DLIELC experience. After all, military personnel are a ?captive
audience? and it?s part of their ?job? to learn English via DLI. As a
result, one would assume they are a very motivated bunch. Do you think this
skews your finding about class size, instructional time and other variables,
or not? Also, how large were the test differences when you ?squeezed in? a
few more students/class? Do you think the tests were good enough to make
those differences meaningful?

 

Forrest

 

  

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Ted Klein
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 8:58 AM
To: Jodi Crandall; The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1130] Re: Observation checklist

 

Hi Jodi,

 

Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times in the past, I
think at least once when you visited the Defense Language Institute English
Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I mention DLI is
that it represents a language program with little leeway to fail. I spent 20
years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is to train allied and
friendly military personnel worldwide in general and specialized English.
Most students start ESL in their home countries with DLIELC personnel
advising, and in some cases teaching, in these overseas military language
centers. It may still be the largest language program in the world. Students
after reaching certain levels go to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio,
complete their general English, usually go through specialized terminology
and then on to whatever training their country needs with the U.S. military.
Students have run the full gamut from recruits and NCO's up to generals and
admirals. This is a very tightly organized "well-packaged" language program
with predictable training times and results.

 

Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb while I was at at
DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum. This was rarely
broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters' bean counter would
calculate that if a mere two or three students could be added to a class,
voila, look at the money we would save! This money came both from foreign
governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue and then try it, I believe
several times over the years. However, in an organization that has a very
effective testing system; both achievement and proficiency, it was soon
noticed that the scores were going down, just enough so that they could
prove that no money was being saved on teacher salaries and other expenses.
I spent three years with the Royal Thai Navy for DLI as language training
advisor and remember having to twist arms with the RTN Navy Education
Department with the same problem. They wanted 15 in a class.

 

Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during my last eight
years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes have consistently
been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an organization is stuck
with a low budget, make the hours of training per week lower, but keep the
class sizes within 10 or so students. Fewer hours of really effective
training are certainly better than large classes where the student attention
level and collegiality are reduced. I remember Mary Finocchiaro saying years
ago that she didn't care how many students were in her classroom, she would
teach them! Unfortunately, most of us just aren't THAT dynamic.

 

Cheers,  Ted

www.tedklein-ESL.com

 

 

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>

To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>

Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM

Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist

 

Usha,

I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
experience that with more than 10 students, learning decreases?  If so,
how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be interested
in ways to decrease class size.

It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more important
to involve them in activities in which all get to participate, which means
less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small classes
need that.

What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?

You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop out of
classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any of you keep
records of your students that would identify those who do return?  Do you
have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning English
outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know of any
research about adult English Language Learners in this area, but there is
an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State University
following adult literacy level students for several years.  They have
identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside of the
classroom and also that some of these learners come back to classes after
being out of them for some time.

Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of you been
able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of these
services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have been most
effective? If you teach in a community college, have your students had
access to the various support services provided to other students?

Several of you have talked about the differences in progress made by
students with more advanced education and those who are at literacy level.
 Because literacy level students take longer in making progress, most
programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and literate
beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and literacy will
need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to talk about
what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about persistence
of literacy level students and their learning gains.

Students with advanced education in their own language may be able to have
a condensed program since they are already experienced as students and
often have high motivation to get through English so that they can take
courses related to their previous or future career.  City College of San
Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters worth of
work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer something along
these lines?

Jodi


> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked the tool that
> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope that it  is
> not
> something that has already been asked and answered.
>
> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of our ESL
> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal constraints and
> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a positive to
> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we expect to see
> more
> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the numbers.
>
> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy programs
> because of many socio-economic factors.
>
> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing market (in past
> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to stay in one
> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen more in people
> who do not have high levels of education from their native country).
>
> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from their
> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some kind of
> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs, go in and
> out
> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of various
> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and have no time to
> practice.
>
> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in educational
> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
> availability
> of  community resources.
>
> Usha Narayanan
> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
> California
> 408-522-2737
>
>
> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Marie,
>>
>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and out of the
>> U.S.A.
>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc. in ESL. It
>> is
>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that I'm back
>> in the
>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the Defense
>> Language
>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching immigrants part
>> time for
>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin
>> Community
>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what language
>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to work at a
>> higher
>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I apply
>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy traps."
>> I
>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
>> interested and
>> it is published on my website at
>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel absolutely free
>> to use
>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank you very
>> much for
>> the input. Questions are welcome.
>>
>> Cheers,   Ted
>>
>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>>   Independent Consultant in Language
>>          and Intercultural Training
>>               14456 Agarita Road
>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>>              Phone:512-266-1801
>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>
>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
>>>
>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi  Ted,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it yourself?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try to
>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do others
>>> you
>>> work with?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the students
>>> advance?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Marie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marie,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ted
>>>>
>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
>>>>  NO
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
>>>>
>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
>>>>
>>>>    supportive personality?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
>>>>
>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
>>>>
>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
>>>>
>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
>>>>
>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
>>>>
>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
>>>>
>>>>    other and the instructor?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
>>>>
>>>>     target language  proficiency?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
>>>>
>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
>>>>
>>>>     than push them?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
>>>>
>>>>     exaggerated speech?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
>>>>
>>>>     results?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
>>>>
>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
>>>>
>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
>>>>
>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello  everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on  regarding your
>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??  I was
>>>>> very
>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
>>>>> that
>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
>>>>> intensity
>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
>>>>> opportunities
>>>>> for  professional development.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>>>>> student
>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>
>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>
>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>
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-- 
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html



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From forrest at crosslink.net  Wed Feb  6 11:24:38 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 11:24:38 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1133] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB8708AA1FF7@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
References: <C3CE4BCC.8F31%usha_narayanan@fuhsd.org><52294.130.85.83.224.1202268183.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>	<000001c86892$8c674070$a535c150$@net>
	<208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB8708AA1FF7@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
Message-ID: <000901c868dc$c76cf6c0$5646e440$@net>

Jim,

Thanks for the confirmation. We need all we can get! 

Your description of the "persistence problem" is an eloquent statement of
what we have heard elsewhere. Also, a growing number of programs appear to
be offering "certificates," but it's not clear whether they help or hurt. 

Does ANYBODY have ANY idea about what to do about these persistence
problems? The only ideas I've seen that SEEM to work a bit are: 1)
structuring programs so that students can advance so fast that they have a
hard time "saying no" to college. 2) lowering college admission requirements
for English language proficiency. (At CCSF we found that a significant
number of students made transitions from the Low Intermediate Level and did
just fine in both credit ESL and other credit courses.) 3) Effectively
moving down more credit ESL into non-credit. 4) Packaging all of the above
with a lot of guidance/counseling as a "pathways to college" track. 

But that's rough and ready. Anybody have any other ideas? Overall, I wish we
had the resources to interview more "drop out" students about why they
dropped out and what would make a difference. Maybe THEY have the answers.  

Forrest

Forrest   
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Schneider, Jim
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:39 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1131] Re: Observation checklist

<Dr. Chisman wrote: More importantly, we found that students who began at
the Literacy and Low Beginning  levels were more likely to advance more
levels than were other students, but only about 20% of students who started
at the Literacy of Low Beginning Levels advanced more than two levels over a
7-year time period. Does that jibe with experiences elsewhere?>

Yes it does. Those at the lower levels have the most ground to make up and
do tend to advance more levels as a result. The 20% is also quite accurate.
Our learner come with their own goals and life realities and expectancies.
Most of those who linger and make more levels have the economic ability to
do so. The reality for most though is that they come to class to learn
enough English to get a job. It is our hope that we can keep them long
enough to be able to understand their job safety and SOP's. Far too often
they leave before this with tragic results from an work-related accident
that likely would have been prevented with stronger English skills. 

We award Basic Skills Certificates as our learners advance levels. One of my
favorite students was a working father - he pushed a broom at a local iron
forge making minimum wage. At enrollment his reading was a CASAS 170, he had
only attended school 4 years, and communication was a challenge.  

After a year and a half, he earned his "B" level reading certificate (215),
and though far from fluent, communication was significantly improved. When
he took the certificate to show his supervisor at work, the supervisor took
him to personnel, and they advanced him to an  apprenticeship - which came
with a hefty raise. He hasn't been back to class because he can now provide
for his family in a way that he once could only dream of. 

I am sure that with his intelligence and work ethic he could have been
successful in any number of programs. However, as is so common with ALL
community college students, they know what they want and once they attain
that, they depart. It is important that we do all we can to make them aware
of the opportunities and provide comprehensive transition assistance. The
best information and transitioning program in the world will still be
limited by the realities and expectancies of the learner. 

Jim Schneider




-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Wed 2/6/2008 1:33 AM
To: 'Jodi Crandall'; 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1127] Re: Observation checklist
 
Gee, Jodi, thanks for setting me up! And thanks for your other comments in
this posting (which I wish I had made). 

What we found at CCSF was that students who began at the Literacy Level
persisted longer (on average) and advanced more levels (on average) than did
students who began at any other level,  although it took them longer (on
average) to advance each level. Regrettably CCSF did not have data on level
of prior education for most of its students. Also their Literacy Level
students may not be typical. They have a large Chinese population, and some
members of that population would initially be placed in the Literacy level
simply to learn the English alphabet and to get a start on other major
linguistic differences if they had no English background, regardless of
prior education. More importantly, we found that students who began at the
Literacy and Low Beginning  levels were more likely to advance more levels
than were other students, but only about 20% of students who started at the
Literacy of Low Beginning Levels advanced more than two levels over a 7-year
time period. Does that jibe with experiences elsewhere?   

Okay?

Also, it's important to note that few of the students in the Reder
longitudinal study are ESL students. So we really need more research on ESL
learning by students outside the classroom and post-program. Among the
things we need to know more about is the learning of "stop-outs" -- students
who enroll, drop out, and re-enroll -- while they are absent from the
program. The CCSF research showed that a significant percentage of students
stopped out (for about two years on average). Most of them re-enrolled at
the same level where they had previously been placed (suggesting no learning
gain, or possibly learning loss). Also, while they advanced the same number
of levels as other students who began at the same level, it took them more
terms to do so. But we don't consider this definitive, because the finding
may be partly an artifact of placement procedures. It is possible that
students learn a lot of English outside the classroom, but the Census
reports an increasingly large number of linguistically isolated households,
neighborhoods, and jobs, so this effect may be diminishing. It's important
to find out.  

Forrest     

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 10:23 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist

Usha,

I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your experience
that with more than 10 students, learning decreases?  If so, how do you fund
that number?  I think a lot of people would be interested in ways to
decrease class size.

It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding constraints
you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more important to involve
them in activities in which all get to participate, which means less teacher
talk and more student interaction.  But even small classes need that.

What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?

You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop out of
classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any of you keep
records of your students that would identify those who do return?  Do you
have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning English
outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know of any
research about adult English Language Learners in this area, but there is an
ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State University
following adult literacy level students for several years.  They have
identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside of the
classroom and also that some of these learners come back to classes after
being out of them for some time.

Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of you been able
to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of these
services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have been most
effective? If you teach in a community college, have your students had
access to the various support services provided to other students?

Several of you have talked about the differences in progress made by
students with more advanced education and those who are at literacy level.
 Because literacy level students take longer in making progress, most
programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and literate
beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and literacy will
need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to talk about what
he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about persistence of
literacy level students and their learning gains.

Students with advanced education in their own language may be able to have a
condensed program since they are already experienced as students and often
have high motivation to get through English so that they can take courses
related to their previous or future career.  City College of San Francisco
offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters worth of work is taught
during one. Do any of your programs offer something along these lines?

Jodi


> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked the tool 
> that Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope that 
> it  is not something that has already been asked and answered.
>
> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of our 
> ESL classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal 
> constraints and the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a 
> negative or a positive to have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In 
> our case, we expect to see more than 10 students in a class and for 
> the teacher to sustain the numbers.
>
> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy programs 
> because of many socio-economic factors.
>
> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing market (in 
> past several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to 
> stay in one neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen 
> more in people who do not have high levels of education from their native
country).
>
> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from their 
> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some kind of 
> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs, go in 
> and out of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of 
> various constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and 
> have no time to practice.
>
> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in educational 
> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the 
> availability of  community resources.
>
> Usha Narayanan
> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
> California
> 408-522-2737
>
>
> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Marie,
>>
>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and out of 
>> the U.S.A.
>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc. in ESL. 
>> It is based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that 
>> I'm back in the ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years 
>> with the Defense Language Institute English Language Center. I've 
>> been teaching immigrants part time for the last eight years for the 
>> Adult Education Department at Austin Community College. Getting back 
>> in the trenches has reminded me of what language teaching is all 
>> about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to work at a higher level, 
>> because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I apply 
>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy traps."
>> I
>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed 
>> interested and it is published on my website at 
>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel absolutely 
>> free to use it in any way that will make life easier for students. 
>> Thank you very much for the input. Questions are welcome.
>>
>> Cheers,   Ted
>>
>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>>   Independent Consultant in Language
>>          and Intercultural Training
>>               14456 Agarita Road
>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>>              Phone:512-266-1801
>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>
>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
>>>
>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi  Ted,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it yourself?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try 
>>> to address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do 
>>> others you work with?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the 
>>> students advance?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Marie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Ted Klein
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marie,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ted
>>>>
>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
>>>>  NO
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
>>>>
>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
>>>>
>>>>    supportive personality?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
>>>>
>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
>>>>
>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
>>>>
>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
>>>>
>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
>>>>
>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
>>>>
>>>>    other and the instructor?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
>>>>
>>>>     target language  proficiency?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
>>>>
>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
>>>>
>>>>     than push them?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
>>>>
>>>>     exaggerated speech?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
>>>>
>>>>     results?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
>>>>
>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
>>>>
>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
>>>>
>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello  everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on  regarding your
>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??  I was
>>>>> very
>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
>>>>> that
>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
>>>>> intensity
>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
>>>>> opportunities
>>>>> for  professional development.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>>>>> student
>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>
>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>
>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>> Assessment mailing list
>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to usha_narayanan at fuhsd.org
>
>
>
> Scanned by Barracuda Spam Firewall
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> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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>


-- 
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html





More importantly, we found that students who began at the
Literacy and Low Beginning  levels were more likely to advance more levels
than were other students, but only about 20% of students who started at the
Literacy of Low Beginning Levels advanced more than two levels over a 7-year
time period. Does that jibe with experiences elsewhere?  



From forrest at crosslink.net  Wed Feb  6 11:33:37 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 11:33:37 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1134] Re: Intensity of Instruction and funding of
	adult	ESLprograms
In-Reply-To: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB8708AA1FF6@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
References: <52106.130.85.83.224.1202247058.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
	<208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB8708AA1FF6@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
Message-ID: <001301c868de$089ec370$19dc4a50$@net>

Jim,

That's too bad about your experiences with managed enrollment. Some of the
colleges we studied think they "beat this rap" by creating very large
managed enrollment classes to allow for attrition. (For them, managed
enrollment meant that if students didn't attend on a regular basis, they
were dropped from the program.) They figured that what they lost in head
counts, they made up for in contact hours. But we also heard stories like
yours. I'm beginning to believe that "managed enrollment" works best as one
of several "tracks" -- if a program is large enough to have "tracks" -- a
track for the motivated. Some programs believe that it is by itself
"motivational" -- in that it encourages students to make more of a
"commitment." 

What do the rest of you think?

Forrest     

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Schneider, Jim
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 11:30 PM
To: Jodi Crandall; The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1126] Re: Intensity of Instruction and funding of adult
ESLprograms


At our cc based adult learning center we do not charge any fees for
instruction. 

We have dabbled with the managed enrollment, however our institution is
driven by enrollment and contact hours so that we simply cannot afford to
operate in a managed enrollment fashion. I do believe that it is better for
the teachers and students. Unfortunately, operating in a strict fashion, our
enrollment took close to a 50% reduction. Still, recognizing the value of
the concept, the past two years we have attempted a semi-managed enrollment.
In the fall we have a 3 week enrollment period and then hold classes with no
additional students for 5 weeks. Then an additional 3 week open enrollment
followed by no new students for 5 weeks. Ideally, we would operate in this
fashion year round providing some sense of continuity for the instructors
and learners. Unfortunately, student attendance waxes and wanes due to
employment, weather, transportation, etc. and in each year we attempted this
we held to it through the second 5 weeks and then abandon it for the
remainder of the year because student attendance/enrollment declined  to the
point that we had to enroll any learner whenever they were interested to
meet our enrollment goals. 

The bulk of our english learners enroll in the three levels of morning
classes which meet Monday through Thursday from 8:30 until 11 a.m.. Our
evening program has varied from 2-3 levels. Evening classes meet Monday and
Wednesday from 6 to 8 p.m.. Both morning and evening classes are offered for
approximately 38 weeks through the fall and spring semesters. 

These offerings are "how we have always done it" and are somewhat bound by
the available funds. 

Jim, "I like the sound of eloquent" Schneider

Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Sent: Tue 2/5/2008 3:30 PM
To: Assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1116] Intensity of Instruction and funding of adult
ESLprograms
 

Hi, everyone.  It has been interesting reading the postings today and want
to respond to some of them now.  I just learned from Forrest that his
Internet Service Provider is down, but he expects to be back on line either
tonight or tomorrow.  He'll add his comments later.

In the meantime, let me respond to a couple of themes that have emerged in
the discussion.

Jackie asked what we meant by "intensity of instruction" and Marie provided
a definition from an excellent publication from the Center for Applied
Linguistics which analyzes the effects of instructional hours and intensity
of instruction on NRS level gains in  listening and speaking.

In our study, we define "intensity of instruction" as the number of hours
per week and differentiate it from "duration" which is the total number of
hours for the program.
We think both intensity and duration are important.  It is important to have
enough hours per week of instruction, but also important that there be
enough weeks.  Programs in the 5 community colleges we studied varied from 3
to 20 hours per week of instruction, with 10 hours/week considered
"semi-intensive" and 20 hours/week as "intensive" instruction.

As Jim so eloquently put it, there are some basic reasons why programs might
not offer as many hours of instruction per week as they want to, with
funding being at the root of many of the reasons.

Forrest and I would be interested in knowing how many hours per week your
various programs meet (and for how many weeks) and how you determined that
schedule.  Have you tried more intense programs for shorter periods of time?
What has been the impact on attendance?

Have any of you provided adult ESL/ESOL programs that charge a fee?  We were
surprised to learn of such a program at Bunker Hill Community College.  They
provide free adult ESOL and also a fee-based program in an attempt to
accommodate more learners.  They found that at least some learners were able
to pay the fee and thus they were able to serve more learners.

We'd also like to know if your programs are open-entry/open-exit, with
learners coming to class when they can and sometimes leaving for several
classes before they return, or if you have tried some kind of "managed
enrollment" with attendance expectations of those who are enrolled in your
classes.  Several community colleges have experimented with this approach
and have found it effective.  I know that Forrest will have more to say
about this.

I have to go teach, but when I return, I'd like to talk a bit about issues
surrounding literacy and prior education.

Jodi Crandall


-------------------------------
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From forrest at crosslink.net  Wed Feb  6 11:59:35 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 11:59:35 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1135] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
	Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <8CA36DB4BFA2167-E5C-2BC8@WEBMAIL-MA05.sysops.aol.com>
References: <1dd5701e0802051006i6f9e4473wcc9aa9810ca65f7c@mail.gmail.com>	<OF56C5D320.83B8357C-ON072573E6.0065B469-072573E6.0065D41F@yc.edu>	<000d01c86854$6e1dfde0$4a59f9a0$@net>	<1dd5701e0802060401r7fe15e6apb5e2af1d1564f98a@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CA36DB4BFA2167-E5C-2BC8@WEBMAIL-MA05.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <001f01c868e1$a99b0ba0$fcd122e0$@net>

Andres,

 

This is a fascinating approach. Do you apply it to all of your ESL students,
or just the ones at the Literacy Level. It would seem to take a long time
for students to advance through Spanish Literacy, the Spanish GED, and THEN
ESL. Does it? What percentage of students who start down this track
eventually transition to college? And can you say more about the policy
barriers you mention? 

 

What do other folks think about the design Andres describes? Have you tried
any part of it? Would it work for you? If not, why not?

 

Forrest 

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of andresmuro at aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 8:28 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1129] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

 

Problem is that in many ESL people are placed in ESL classes based on an
English placement multiple choice test. A student with advanced education in
L1 and one with little education in L1 may know very little English and they
may both be placed in the same level. The student with advance education
will progress much faster than the one with little education. The advanced
L1 student will understand concepts like sentence, paragraph, verb, subject,
direct object, adjective, composition and essay readily. The one with with
little education will need to understand these concepts. It takes a while
for people to master these concepts. A highly educated L2  learner will
likely progress faster academically in a second language than a fluent
native speaker of that  language with limited academic education, for the
same reason. This is observed regularly in universities all over the US.
highly educated foreign students who acqu ired English as L2 recently will
do better than their English speaking counterparts in academic tasks in
English. Jim Cummins has articulated this clearly with his BICS and CALPS. 

In our program at El Paso Community College we have found evidence of this.
We stopped doing literacy ESL a while back for this reason. The college has
an academic ESL program. Instead of doing ESL literacy we started offering
Spanish Literacy and GED many years ago since the vast majority of our
students are Spanish speakers. Once our students acquire their Spanish GED
they transition into the ESL program and do better than those students who
don't have L1 academic skills. Even if takes them a while to acquire the L1
literacy, they will do better. Those with no L1 literacy often stay in ESL
forever and they drop out, start again in another program, drop out and
continue the same pattern. I think that this happens because of the mixture
of academically ready students and those that are not ready, since most ESL
programs focus on traditional academics. For L1 low literacy students to be
able to progress in L2 there has to be a program specifically designed for
them that teache s skills in L2 in new and innovative ways without
interference from academically skilled L1 students. Right now we don't have
a system that systematically does this, and the WIA/NRS system prevents this
form happening.

Hope that this makes sense,

Andres



 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jackie Coelho <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 5:01 am
Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

Forrest,

   I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy background
and those without. These two groups have such different needs. Having both
in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs of either
group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate the class,
and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor does not keep up
with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they often become
frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the instructor keeps
up with those students, the others are unable to keep up and they get
frustrated. 

  I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of
how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.

Jackie

 

On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote: 

To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in
student performance:

 

Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly
educated students do better in terms of  persistence, learning gains, and
transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably
we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education
makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of their
students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That is, do
you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education makes? Or
any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior education that
seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are completely illiterate,
students who at least reached high school, high school graduates, college
graduates, etc. --  or is level of prior education pretty much of a
continuum?

 

More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly
educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably students
with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower level
ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by
definition)  in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes math.
Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at these
levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be desirable
to place less highly educated students in separate classes from those with
more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for them
accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or the
Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these
approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of "bi-lingual
education" that should be tried? 

 

It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the people
who study immigration tell us that the level of education of immigrants has
been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large numbers of
undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means), ESL programs
may be swamped with students who have very little education in their native
countries and too little money to serve them.  So anyone who has any ideas
about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a lot by posting
ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.

 

Forrest Chisman

Vice President

CAAL

 

  

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

 


Hi Jackie, 

Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my
former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual education in
the K-12 school system. 

Tina 

Tina Luffman
Coordinator, Developmental Education
Verde Valley Campus
928-634-6544
tina_luffman at yc.edu 


"Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com> 
Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 

02/05/2008 11:13 AM 


Please respond to
The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>


To

"The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov> 


cc

	

Subject

[Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

 

		




Hi Tina,

This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in
favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in
the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation
in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second
or third language.

Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not
written.

Jackie


On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:
> Hi list members,
>
> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to that
of
> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country
they
> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather quickly
and
> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their country
or
> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much
> advancement.
>
> This experience relates well to research done among Native American tribes
> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
literacy
> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who
tried
> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their own
> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The
> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much
easier
> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this is
> something deserving more research.
>
> Tina
> Tina Luffman
> Coordinator, Developmental Education
> Verde Valley Campus
> 928-634-6544
> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>
> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>
> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>
> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
> Comments?!
>
>
> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
> Warning: (not named).
> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more
> information.
>
> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three
years)
> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance, particularly
if
> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at
> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I
would
> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a student
> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because
he/she
> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try to
> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
concept
> in a second language.
>
> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play a
> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned from
> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than classes).
> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.
It's
> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
teachers.
> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging me
> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're
> making some progress.
>
> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your
> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very
> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that
Dr.
> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of intensity of
> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities for
> professional development.
>
> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL student
> from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
>
> Please post your questions and comments now.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Marie Cora
> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>
>
> Marie Cora
> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
> < <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>  <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
> If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager.
> This message contains confidential information and is intended only for
the
> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>  <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>  <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>
>
>
-------------------------------
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<http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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From forrest at crosslink.net  Wed Feb  6 11:48:18 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 11:48:18 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1136] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
	or	Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <1dd5701e0802060401r7fe15e6apb5e2af1d1564f98a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1dd5701e0802051006i6f9e4473wcc9aa9810ca65f7c@mail.gmail.com>	<OF56C5D320.83B8357C-ON072573E6.0065B469-072573E6.0065D41F@yc.edu>	<000d01c86854$6e1dfde0$4a59f9a0$@net>
	<1dd5701e0802060401r7fe15e6apb5e2af1d1564f98a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001501c868e0$1657b970$43072c50$@net>

Jackie,

 

Thanks. It's just a "top of the head" idea. I wonder why it isn't tried more
often. Or maybe it is? Is anybody on this list trying this approach? We
certainly heard from some ESL staff that they believe the more
able/motivated students feel frustrated by being held by in classes with
others. In fact, if you read our CCSF study, this may be a major flaw in
that college's program design. In fact, most of the students enrolled in the
"two level" programs at CCSF  -- which Jodi mentioned in a previous post -
were low level students. And they out-performed all other categories of
students by all measures. Regrettably there weren't very many of them, but
that may have to do with marketing (or not).

 

And yes, the more demanding/sophisticated the curriculum, the greater the
need for highly skilled teachers.  That may be the most important variable
of all, and I don't know how we get this to the attention of senior
management/policy makers. The few successes I've seen have been in programs
where both part time and full time teachers are unionized. There is often
pressure for greater pay equity, benefits, etc. in those situations. Any
other ideas????????

 

Forrest 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Jackie Coelho
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 7:01 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

 

Forrest,

   I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy background
and those without. These two groups have such different needs. Having both
in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs of either
group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate the class,
and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor does not keep up
with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they often become
frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the instructor keeps
up with those students, the others are unable to keep up and they get
frustrated. 

  I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of
how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.

Jackie

 

On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote: 

To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in
student performance:

 

Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly
educated students do better in terms of  persistence, learning gains, and
transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably
we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education
makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of their
students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That is, do
you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education makes? Or
any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior education that
seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are completely illiterate,
students who at least reached high school, high school graduates, college
graduates, etc. --  or is level of prior education pretty much of a
continuum?

 

More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly
educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably students
with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower level
ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by
definition)  in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes math.
Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at these
levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be desirable
to place less highly educated students in separate classes from those with
more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for them
accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or the
Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these
approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of "bi-lingual
education" that should be tried? 

 

It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the people
who study immigration tell us that the level of education of immigrants has
been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large numbers of
undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means), ESL programs
may be swamped with students who have very little education in their native
countries and too little money to serve them.  So anyone who has any ideas
about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a lot by posting
ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.

 

Forrest Chisman

Vice President

CAAL

 

  

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

 


Hi Jackie, 

Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my
former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual education in
the K-12 school system. 

Tina 

Tina Luffman
Coordinator, Developmental Education
Verde Valley Campus
928-634-6544
tina_luffman at yc.edu 


"Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com> 
Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 

02/05/2008 11:13 AM 


Please respond to
The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>


To

"The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov> 


cc

	

Subject

[Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

 

		




Hi Tina,

This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in
favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in
the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation
in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second
or third language.

Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not
written.

Jackie


On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:
> Hi list members,
>
> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to that
of
> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country
they
> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather quickly
and
> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their country
or
> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much
> advancement.
>
> This experience relates well to research done among Native American tribes
> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
literacy
> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who
tried
> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their own
> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The
> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much
easier
> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this is
> something deserving more research.
>
> Tina
> Tina Luffman
> Coordinator, Developmental Education
> Verde Valley Campus
> 928-634-6544
> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>
> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>
> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>
> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
> Comments?!
>
>
> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
> Warning: (not named).
> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more
> information.
>
> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three
years)
> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance, particularly
if
> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at
> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I
would
> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a student
> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because
he/she
> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try to
> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
concept
> in a second language.
>
> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play a
> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned from
> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than classes).
> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.
It's
> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
teachers.
> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging me
> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're
> making some progress.
>
> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your
> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very
> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that
Dr.
> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of intensity of
> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities for
> professional development.
>
> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL student
> from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
>
> Please post your questions and comments now.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Marie Cora
> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>
>
> Marie Cora
> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
> < <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>  <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
> If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager.
> This message contains confidential information and is intended only for
the
> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>  <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>  <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>
>
>
-------------------------------
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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu



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From andresmuro at aol.com  Wed Feb  6 14:04:37 2008
From: andresmuro at aol.com (andresmuro at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 14:04:37 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1137] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
 Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <001f01c868e1$a99b0ba0$fcd122e0$@net>
References: <1dd5701e0802051006i6f9e4473wcc9aa9810ca65f7c@mail.gmail.com>	<OF56C5D320.83B8357C-ON072573E6.0065B469-072573E6.0065D41F@yc.edu>	<000d01c86854$6e1dfde0$4a59f9a0$@net>	<1dd5701e0802060401r7fe15e6apb5e2af1d1564f98a@mail.gmail.com>	<8CA36DB4BFA2167-E5C-2BC8@WEBMAIL-MA05.sysops.aol.com>
	<001f01c868e1$a99b0ba0$fcd122e0$@net>
Message-ID: <8CA370A4084A35B-1370-EA8@webmail-da11.sysops.aol.com>


 Forrest:

The approach works for our program because we are a Spanish speaking community where we can pretty much teach native language literacy. It would be tougher to implement in other communities with a mixture of immigrants. 

Regarding progress, the majority of our students start at an average 6 grade education in Mexico and have been out of school for a while. Most of our students are migrant/agricultural workers. It takes approximately a year to a year and 1/2 for them to earn a GED in Spanish. Our lowest level student had a 2nd grade education and earned her GED within 21/2 years. She was very motivated. If they have above 6 grade education most complete a GED within a year. Below six grade it takes between one and two years. 

Problem with ESL is that students tend to get lost in ESL systems. Most ESL programs don't provide an outcome that has validity beyond the particular ESL program unless it is a credit college program. So, students will enroll for a few months to a few years of ESL and then stop and will not really have much more than a certificate that states that they were in ESL. Unless they get immersed in an English speaking environment, if they don't continue in a program they end up forgetting what they learn and starting again in a different ESL program. 

With WIA/NRS, there is no incentive to move students beyond a few levels because satisfactory progress is measured by students progressing form literacy ESL to beginning ESL.? Students may progress a few levels of ESL, the program shows progress and the students eventually stop attending. They often reappear in another ESL program starting at the lowest level. I doubt that there are any programs in the entire country that can show that they had ESL students that started in literacy ESL and progressed through all the levels and earned a GED in English. There may be examples of? a few students but they will be statistically insignificant. 

I am not arguing that there is no value in ESL instruction. However, there is no value in the way the system measures progress.? It does so through standardized testing that measures a limited range of academic skills and has little value to the students. So, the teachers are caught between teaching the students valuable things that may impact their life (such as health, immigration, legal rights, etc) and making sure that they show progress in the BEST Plus or whatever else. The pressure of the teachers to help the students show progress in these tests before they drop, prevents them from teaching the meaningful things that people like Heide Wrigley, Elsa Auerbach, Rimma Rudd and others advocate for. I know that some teachers make the compromise between trying to mix BEST progress with meaningful knowledge. However, it is tough. Especially since the only measure of progress is the BEST plus.? Also, "bringing literacy to life" and "making meaning making change" are very difficult things to do unless teachers are trained extensively in this, and devote their entire efforts to do this sort of stuff and have the right combination of knowledge, skills and abilities. Mixing this stuff with BEST plus is even harder and most cannot do this. 

Anyways, I have a meeting and I am late.

Andres






-----Original Message-----
From: Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net>
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List' <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 9:59 am
Subject: [Assessment 1135] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!

























Andres,



?



This is a fascinating approach. Do you apply it to all of your
ESL students, or just the ones at the Literacy Level. It would seem to take a
long time for students to advance through Spanish Literacy, the Spanish GED,
and THEN ESL. Does it? What percentage of students who start down this track
eventually transition to college? And can you say more about the policy
barriers you mention? 



?



What do other folks think about the design Andres describes? Have
you tried any part of it? Would it work for you? If not, why not?



?



Forrest 



?






From:
assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf
Of andresmuro at aol.com

Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 8:28 AM

To: assessment at nifl.gov

Subject: [Assessment 1129] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!






?






Problem
is that in many ESL people are placed in ESL classes based on an English
placement multiple choice test. A student with advanced education in L1 and one
with little education in L1 may know very little English and they may both be
placed in the same level. The student with advance education will progress much
faster than the one with little education. The advanced L1 student will
understand concepts like sentence, paragraph, verb, subject, direct object,
adjective, composition and essay readily. The one with with little education
will need to understand these concepts. It takes a while for people to master
these concepts. A highly educated L2? learner will likely progress faster
academically in a second language than a fluent native speaker of that?
language with limited academic education, for the same reason. This is observed
regularly in universities all over the US. highly educated foreign students who
acqu ired English as L2 recently will do better than their English speaking
counterparts in academic tasks in English. Jim Cummins has articulated this
clearly with his BICS and CALPS. 



In our program at El Paso Community College we have found evidence of this. We
stopped doing literacy ESL a while back for this reason. The college has an
academic ESL program. Instead of doing ESL literacy we started offering Spanish
Literacy and GED many years ago since the vast majority of our students are
Spanish speakers. Once our students acquire their Spanish GED they transition
into the ESL program and do better than those students who don't have L1
academic skills. Even if takes them a while to acquire the L1 literacy, they
will do better. Those with no L1 literacy often stay in ESL forever and they
drop out, start again in another program, drop out and continue the same
pattern. I think that this happens because of the mixture of academically ready
students and those that are not ready, since most ESL programs focus on
traditional academics. For L1 low literacy students to be able to progress in
L2 there has to be a program specifically designed for them that teache s
skills in L2 in new and innovative ways without interference from academically
skilled L1 students. Right now we don't have a system that systematically does
this, and the WIA/NRS system prevents this form happening.



Hope that this makes sense,



Andres













?









?






-----Original Message-----

From: Jackie Coelho <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>

To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>

Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 5:01 am

Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!









Forrest,









?? I like the idea of separate classes for those
with a literacy background and those without. These two groups have such
different needs. Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to
meet the needs of either group well and I find that often the stronger students
dominate the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor
does not keep up with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they
often become frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the
instructor keeps up with those students, the others are unable to keep up and
they get frustrated. 









? I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out.
And regardless of how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.









Jackie



?









On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman
<forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:













To all of you
who commented on level of prior education as a factor in student performance:









?









Everyone with
whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly educated students do
better in terms of ?persistence, learning gains, and transitions. And
learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably we found very little
hard data about how much difference prior education makes, because too few
programs track the level of prior education of their students and correlate it
with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH
difference level of prior education makes? Or any strong impressions? And are there
"cut points" in prior education that seem to make a difference --
e.g. students who are completely illiterate, students who at least reached high
school, high school graduates, college graduates, etc. -- ?or is level of
prior education pretty much of a continuum?









?









More
importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly educated
students and those with less prior education? Presumably students with very low
levels of education are more likely end up in the lower level ESL courses
(Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by definition) ?in the
business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes math. Why isn't this enough?
In your experience, does the "gap" exist at these levels too, or
mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be desirable to place less
highly educated students in separate classes from those with more education and
adjust the curriculum/support systems for them accordingly? Some programs have
tried "native language literacy" or the Spanish GED. What has been
the experience of any of you with these approaches? Any other ideas? IS there
an adult ESL equivalent of "bi-lingual education" that should be
tried? 









?









It seems to me
that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the people who study
immigration tell us that the level of education of immigrants has been falling.
And if Immigration Reform mandates large numbers of undocumented people to
"learn English" (whatever that means), ESL programs may be swamped
with students who have very little education in their native countries and too
little money to serve them. ?So anyone who has any ideas about how to
bridge this "education gap" could help us a lot by posting ideas
about how to close it on this discussion list.









?









Forrest Chisman









Vice President









CAAL









?









??









?












From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu

Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM

To: The Assessment Discussion List

Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!















?











Hi Jackie, 



Thank you for this information. I believe this
research must be what my former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for
bilingual education in the K-12 school system. 



Tina 



Tina Luffman

Coordinator, Developmental Education

Verde Valley Campus

928-634-6544

tina_luffman at yc.edu 







 


  

  

  
"Jackie Coelho"
  <jackie.coelho at gmail.com> 

  Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
  

  

  

  
02/05/2008 11:13 AM 

  

  

   


    

    
Please respond to

    The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>

    

   

  


  

  

  

   


    

    
To

    

    

    

    
"The Assessment
    Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
    

    

    

   

   

    

    
cc

    

    



   

   

    

    
Subject

    

    

    

    
[Assessment 1108] Re:
    {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or ? ? ?
    ?Comments?!

    

    

   

  


  

  
?

  

  

   


    



    



   

  


  

 















Hi Tina,



This has been researched already and
is the basis for the arguement in

favor of bilingual education, a good
idea that was not implemented in

the best way. For many years people
have known that a good foundation

in literacy in the first language
will facilitate learning in a second

or third language.



Another interesting twist is the
existence of languages that are not written.



Jackie





On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:

> Hi list members,

>

> My experience teaching ELAA
students in the GED class is similar to that of

> Gail. If the student has a solid
educational background in the country they

> came from in their native
language, they tend to advance rather quickly and

> get their GED. Those coming with
6th grade educations from their country or

> lower tend to stay in the GED
class for years and do not make much

> advancement.

>

> This experience relates well to
research done among Native American tribes

> teaching them English. Those
Native Americans who were first taught literacy

> skills in their own tongue
learned English much quicker than those who tried

> to learn literacy skills in
English without that background in their own

> tongue. I also found similar
problems when I was learning Spanish. The

> concepts I could mentally
translate from English to Spanish were much easier

> to grasp and learn than those I
didn't know in English. Perhaps this is

> something deserving more
research.

>

> Tina

> Tina Luffman

> Coordinator, Developmental Education

> Verde Valley Campus

> 928-634-6544

> tina_luffman at yc.edu

>

> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
wrote: -----

>

> To: "The Assessment
Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>

> From: "Gail Burnett"
<gburnett at sanford.org>

> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov

> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM

> Subject: [Assessment 1104]
{Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or

> Comments?!

>

>

> Warning: This message has had
one or more attachments removed

> Warning: (not named).

> Warning: Please read the
"AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more

> information.

>

> In our small adult education
program, my experience (just about three years)

> is that students with solid
educational backgrounds advance, particularly if

> they're not working too many
hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at

> all, are immigrants who are
barely literate in their first language. I would

> say that lack of education is a
bigger factor than lack of time; a student

> who works full-time and is
exhausted often will still succeed because he/she

> is familiar with academic work,
and is goal-oriented. What we do is try to

> get our low-level students to
come up with goals, but that's a hard concept

> in a second language.

>

> This does not mean that the
factors mentioned in the research don't play a

> part, though. I'm one of those
barely-trained teachers (transitioned from

> another career, got trained
mainly through workshops rather than classes).

> My skill level very well may
contribute to students' slow advancement. It's

> hard for small adult education
programs to get highly skilled ESL teachers.

> The pay is low and there are no
benefits. But my program is encouraging me

> to get extra training and has me
on a plan of improvement. I think we're

> making some progress.

>

> Does this address any of the issues?
And am I submitting it right?

>

> ________________________________

>

> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on
behalf of Marie Cora

> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM

> To: Assessment at nifl.gov

> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No
Questions or Comments?!

>

>

> Hello everyone,

>

> I'm so surprised! ?No one
has anything to comment on regarding your

> program's effectiveness at
helping ESL students advance?? ?I was very

> curious to know if subscribers
experience the same types of issues that Dr.

> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found
in their research: ?a lack of intensity of

> instruction/few protocols for
transitioning students/few opportunities for

> professional development.

>

> What are the issues in your
program that you feel inhibit the ESL student

> from advancing? ?What do
you try to do about that?

>

> Please post your questions and
comments now.

>

> Thanks!

>

> Marie Cora

> Assessment Discussion List
Moderator

>

>

> Marie Cora

> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>

> NIFL Assessment Discussion List
Moderator

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

>

>

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From crandall at umbc.edu  Wed Feb  6 15:05:50 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 15:05:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Assessment 1138] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <001e01c868c8$49636de0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
References: <C3CE4BCC.8F31%usha_narayanan@fuhsd.org>
	<52294.130.85.83.224.1202268183.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
	<001e01c868c8$49636de0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
Message-ID: <49507.130.85.83.224.1202328350.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>

Hi, Ted.  Glad to make contact again.

I definitely agree that smaller classes are more likely to bring learner
gains, especially in language, since students will have more opportunity
to speak when there are fewer students.  I didn't know about the DLI
policy, but it is a good one.  The problem with adult ESL classes, I fear,
is that there is such limited money available that programs would find it
difficult to keep class size to these numbers.

Has anyone tried to reduce class size and chart the learning gains?  If
so, please share with us all.  It might be that this would be a good
investment.  If students in smaller classes make faster gains, then there
would be more spaces available as these students transitioned to other
classes or the workforce.

Jodi

Hi Jodi,
>
> Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times in the past,
> I think at least once when you visited the Defense Language Institute
> English Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I mention
> DLI is that it represents a language program with little leeway to fail. I
> spent 20 years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is to train
> allied and friendly military personnel worldwide in general and
> specialized English. Most students start ESL in their home countries with
> DLIELC personnel advising, and in some cases teaching, in these overseas
> military language centers. It may still be the largest language program in
> the world. Students after reaching certain levels go to Lackland Air Force
> Base in San Antonio, complete their general English, usually go through
> specialized terminology and then on to whatever training their country
> needs with the U.S. military. Students have run the full gamut from
> recruits and NCO's up to generals and admirals. This is a very tightly
> organized "well-packaged" language program with predictable training times
> and results.
>
> Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb while I was at
> at DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum. This was
> rarely broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters' bean
> counter would calculate that if a mere two or three students could be
> added to a class, voila, look at the money we would save! This money came
> both from foreign governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue and then try
> it, I believe several times over the years. However, in an organization
> that has a very effective testing system; both achievement and
> proficiency, it was soon noticed that the scores were going down, just
> enough so that they could prove that no money was being saved on teacher
> salaries and other expenses. I spent three years with the Royal Thai Navy
> for DLI as language training advisor and remember having to twist arms
> with the RTN Navy Education Department with the same problem. They wanted
> 15 in a class.
>
> Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during my last
> eight years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes have
> consistently been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an
> organization is stuck with a low budget, make the hours of training per
> week lower, but keep the class sizes within 10 or so students. Fewer hours
> of really effective training are certainly better than large classes where
> the student attention level and collegiality are reduced. I remember Mary
> Finocchiaro saying years ago that she didn't care how many students were
> in her classroom, she would teach them! Unfortunately, most of us just
> aren't THAT dynamic.
>
> Cheers,  Ted
> www.tedklein-ESL.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM
> Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist
>
>
> Usha,
>
> I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
> experience that with more than 10 students, learning decreases?  If so,
> how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be interested
> in ways to decrease class size.
>
> It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
> constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more important
> to involve them in activities in which all get to participate, which means
> less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small classes
> need that.
>
> What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?
>
> You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop out of
> classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any of you keep
> records of your students that would identify those who do return?  Do you
> have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning English
> outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know of any
> research about adult English Language Learners in this area, but there is
> an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State University
> following adult literacy level students for several years.  They have
> identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside of the
> classroom and also that some of these learners come back to classes after
> being out of them for some time.
>
> Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of you been
> able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of these
> services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have been most
> effective? If you teach in a community college, have your students had
> access to the various support services provided to other students?
>
> Several of you have talked about the differences in progress made by
> students with more advanced education and those who are at literacy level.
>  Because literacy level students take longer in making progress, most
> programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and literate
> beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and literacy will
> need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to talk about
> what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about persistence
> of literacy level students and their learning gains.
>
> Students with advanced education in their own language may be able to have
> a condensed program since they are already experienced as students and
> often have high motivation to get through English so that they can take
> courses related to their previous or future career.  City College of San
> Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters worth of
> work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer something along
> these lines?
>
> Jodi
>
>
>> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked the tool
>> that
>> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope that it  is
>> not
>> something that has already been asked and answered.
>>
>> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of our ESL
>> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal constraints
>> and
>> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a positive to
>> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we expect to see
>> more
>> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the numbers.
>>
>> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy programs
>> because of many socio-economic factors.
>>
>> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing market (in
>> past
>> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to stay in
>> one
>> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen more in
>> people
>> who do not have high levels of education from their native country).
>>
>> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from their
>> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some kind of
>> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs, go in and
>> out
>> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of various
>> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and have no time
>> to
>> practice.
>>
>> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in educational
>> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
>> availability
>> of  community resources.
>>
>> Usha Narayanan
>> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
>> California
>> 408-522-2737
>>
>>
>> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Marie,
>>>
>>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and out of the
>>> U.S.A.
>>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc. in ESL. It
>>> is
>>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that I'm back
>>> in the
>>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the Defense
>>> Language
>>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching immigrants part
>>> time for
>>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin
>>> Community
>>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what language
>>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to work at a
>>> higher
>>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I apply
>>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy
>>> traps."
>>> I
>>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
>>> interested and
>>> it is published on my website at
>>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel absolutely free
>>> to use
>>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank you very
>>> much for
>>> the input. Questions are welcome.
>>>
>>> Cheers,   Ted
>>>
>>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>>>   Independent Consultant in Language
>>>          and Intercultural Training
>>>               14456 Agarita Road
>>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>>>              Phone:512-266-1801
>>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
>>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>
>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
>>>>
>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi  Ted,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it
>>>> yourself?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try to
>>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do others
>>>> you
>>>> work with?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the students
>>>> advance?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
>>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
>>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ted
>>>>>
>>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
>>>>>  NO
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
>>>>>
>>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
>>>>>
>>>>>    supportive personality?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
>>>>>
>>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
>>>>>
>>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
>>>>>
>>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
>>>>>
>>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
>>>>>
>>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
>>>>>
>>>>>    other and the instructor?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
>>>>>
>>>>>     target language  proficiency?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
>>>>>
>>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
>>>>>
>>>>>     than push them?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
>>>>>
>>>>>     exaggerated speech?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
>>>>>
>>>>>     results?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
>>>>>
>>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
>>>>>
>>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
>>>>>
>>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---- Original Message -----
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello  everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on  regarding your
>>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??  I was
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
>>>>>> intensity
>>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
>>>>>> opportunities
>>>>>> for  professional development.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>>>>>> student
>>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>>
>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>> Assessment mailing list
>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> Email delivered to usha_narayanan at fuhsd.org
>>
>>
>>
>> Scanned by Barracuda Spam Firewall
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>
>
>
> --
> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Professor, Education Department
> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
> Education
> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
> email: crandall at umbc.edu
> www.umbc.edu/llc/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>


-- 
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html





From crandall at umbc.edu  Wed Feb  6 15:10:18 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 15:10:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
 Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <1dd5701e0802060401r7fe15e6apb5e2af1d1564f98a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1dd5701e0802051006i6f9e4473wcc9aa9810ca65f7c@mail.gmail.com>
	<OF56C5D320.83B8357C-ON072573E6.0065B469-072573E6.0065D41F@yc.edu>
	<000d01c86854$6e1dfde0$4a59f9a0$@net>
	<1dd5701e0802060401r7fe15e6apb5e2af1d1564f98a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49509.130.85.83.224.1202328618.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>

Jackie and Forrest,

I think most large programs separate literacy level students from others
who are at a beginning level.  I know that back in the 1980s when there
were large refugee ESL programs, several community colleges created
parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels and even into intermediate
levels, with one set of classes for students with limited literacy or
prior schooling and another for more educated students.  The reason was
that the students with less education made slower progress.  Some of this
is undoubtedly due to the way in which we teach English (requiring
literacy), but it is also because students need to become accustomed to
attending classes, learning to hold and use a pen or pencil, and a wide
range of basic skills that come with being a student in a class.

Those of you who have separate classes for those who need literacy:   Can
you tell us what kind of classes or program you provide?

Those who teach both literacy and more educated learners in the same
class:  Can you let us know how you manage?  What are some ways in which
you accommodate both sets of needs?

Jodi
> Forrest,
>    I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy
> background
> and those without. These two groups have such different needs. Having both
> in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs of either
> group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate the class,
> and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor does not keep
> up
> with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they often become
> frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the instructor
> keeps
> up with those students, the others are unable to keep up and they get
> frustrated.
>   I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of
> how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.
> Jackie
>
>
> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:
>>
>>  To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in
>> student performance:
>>
>>
>>
>> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly
>> educated students do better in terms of  persistence, learning gains,
>> and
>> transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this.
>> Regrettably
>> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education
>> makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of
>> their
>> students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That is,
>> do
>> you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education makes?
>> Or
>> any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior education
>> that
>> seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are completely
>> illiterate,
>> students who at least reached high school, high school graduates,
>> college
>> graduates, etc. --  or is level of prior education pretty much of a
>> continuum?
>>
>>
>>
>> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly
>> educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably
>> students
>> with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower
>> level
>> ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by
>> definition)  in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes
>> math.
>> Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at these
>> levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be
>> desirable
>> to place less highly educated students in separate classes from those
>> with
>> more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for them
>> accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or the
>> Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these
>> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of
>> "bi-lingual
>> education" that should be tried?
>>
>>
>>
>> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the
>> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of
>> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large
>> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means),
>> ESL
>> programs may be swamped with students who have very little education in
>> their native countries and too little money to serve them.  So anyone
>> who
>> has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a
>> lot
>> by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.
>>
>>
>>
>> Forrest Chisman
>>
>> Vice President
>>
>> CAAL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
>> *On
>> Behalf Of *Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
>> *To:* The Assessment Discussion List
>> *Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
>> or
>> Comments?!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Jackie,
>>
>> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my
>> former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual
>> education in
>> the K-12 school system.
>>
>> Tina
>>
>> Tina Luffman
>> Coordinator, Developmental Education
>> Verde Valley Campus
>> 928-634-6544
>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>
>>   *"Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>*
>> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>
>> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM
>>
>> Please respond to
>> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>
>> To
>>
>> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>
>> cc
>>
>> Subject
>>
>> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
>>  Comments?!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Tina,
>>
>> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in
>> favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in
>> the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation
>> in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second
>> or third language.
>>
>> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not
>> written.
>>
>> Jackie
>>
>>
>> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:
>> > Hi list members,
>> >
>> > My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to
>> that
>> of
>> > Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country
>> they
>> > came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather
>> quickly
>> and
>> > get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their
>> country
>> or
>> > lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much
>> > advancement.
>> >
>> > This experience relates well to research done among Native American
>> tribes
>> > teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
>> literacy
>> > skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who
>> tried
>> > to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their
>> own
>> > tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The
>> > concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much
>> easier
>> > to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this
>> is
>> > something deserving more research.
>> >
>> > Tina
>> > Tina Luffman
>> > Coordinator, Developmental Education
>> > Verde Valley Campus
>> > 928-634-6544
>> > tina_luffman at yc.edu
>> >
>> > -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>> >
>> > To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>> > From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>
>> > Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>> > Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
>> > Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
>> > Comments?!
>> >
>> >
>> > Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
>> > Warning: (not named).
>> > Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for
>> more
>> > information.
>> >
>> > In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three
>> years)
>> > is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
>> particularly if
>> > they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if
>> at
>> > all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I
>> would
>> > say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a
>> student
>> > who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because
>> he/she
>> > is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is
>> try
>> to
>> > get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
>> concept
>> > in a second language.
>> >
>> > This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't
>> play
>> a
>> > part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned
>> from
>> > another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
>> classes).
>> > My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.
>> It's
>> > hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
>> teachers.
>> > The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is
>> encouraging
>> me
>> > to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think
>> we're
>> > making some progress.
>> >
>> > Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> >
>> > From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
>> > Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
>> > To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>> > Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>> >
>> >
>> > Hello everyone,
>> >
>> > I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your
>> > program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very
>> > curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
>> that
>> Dr.
>> > Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of intensity
>> of
>> > instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities
>> for
>> > professional development.
>> >
>> > What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>> student
>> > from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
>> >
>> > Please post your questions and comments now.
>> >
>> > Thanks!
>> >
>> > Marie Cora
>> > Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>> >
>> >
>> > Marie Cora
>> > marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>> > <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>> > NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>> > <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> >
>> >
>> > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>> intended
>> > solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>> addressed.
>> > If you have received this email in error please notify the system
>> manager.
>> > This message contains confidential information and is intended only
>> for
>> the
>> > individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
>> > disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
>> > -------------------------------
>> > National Institute for Literacy
>> > Assessment mailing list
>> > Assessment at nifl.gov
>> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> > <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> > Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>> >
>> >
>> > -------------------------------
>> > National Institute for Literacy
>> > Assessment mailing list
>> > Assessment at nifl.gov
>> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> > <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> > Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>> <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>>
>>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>


-- 
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html





From forrest at crosslink.net  Wed Feb  6 15:22:32 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 15:22:32 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1140] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
	Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <8CA370A4084A35B-1370-EA8@webmail-da11.sysops.aol.com>
References: <1dd5701e0802051006i6f9e4473wcc9aa9810ca65f7c@mail.gmail.com>	<OF56C5D320.83B8357C-ON072573E6.0065B469-072573E6.0065D41F@yc.edu>	<000d01c86854$6e1dfde0$4a59f9a0$@net>	<1dd5701e0802060401r7fe15e6apb5e2af1d1564f98a@mail.gmail.com>	<8CA36DB4BFA2167-E5C-2BC8@WEBMAIL-MA05.sysops.aol.com>	<001f01c868e1$a99b0ba0$fcd122e0$@net>
	<8CA370A4084A35B-1370-EA8@webmail-da11.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <002601c868fe$040b7220$0c225660$@net>

Andres,

 

I certainly agree with what you say about the limits of WIA/NRS. And I'm
glad your students progress so fast. But what percent of them earn the
Spanish GED? Also I'm not sure what happens to them then. Although El Paso
may be a Spanish=speaking community, our discussion here is about how to
teach students English. Having attained a Spanish GED, do your students then
take ESL classes? If so, how many of your students take ESL classes, and how
far do they advance in learning English BY ANY MEASURE?  

 

Certainly the mix of skills that should be taught in non-credit ESL  is an
arguable topic. As I understand it, most programs teach "life skills"
English at the non-credit level. They try to use the sorts of topics that
Elsa and Heide advocate as the content for teaching a progression of English
"academic skills" (reading, grammar, speaking, etc.) up to about what (by
tests made for native speakers) would be about the 9th grade level. Both
"life skills" and more "academic skills" are presumed to be "portable
skills" needed in an English speaking country. Programs do this in different
ways. Some use a set curriculum; others use a more "Frerian" approach to
insure the content is relevant to student interests/needs --(see the profile
of Yakima Valley Community  College in our "Torchlights" publication). I'm
not sure why you find this approach problematic. Can you elaborate?

 

I think you are right to raise the question of what the "terminal goal" of
ESL should be. It's a question too seldom discussed. What do others think
about it? My impression is that the terminal goal of most programs is rarely
the English GED (although it is at Yakima - and a significant percentage
reach it). Insofar as most have a "terminal goal" in mind it seems to be to
help students "do better" at life and in work in an English-speaking
environment. Effectively, students decide how much "better" is enough,
because students "vote with their feet" when they think they have learned
enough (or run out of free time and interest). But if "terminal goals" are
entirely  student-centered, it is hard to assess the  success of ESL
programs -- how much they benefit students. Anything goes! Hence most
programs I know also define success as progression up a series of levels of
English proficiency - the more progress the better. I've encountered few
people who have a problem with this general concept of "success" (although
it has no singular "terminal goal"). But many people  have trouble with the
standardized tests that measure it. Often locally developed tests are used
to get around this problem. 

 

For SOME colleges a secondary "terminal goal" is entry to and success in
credit courses (or VESL programs) taught in English. This isn't a hard
"terminal goal" to measure and has LARGE economic and other rewards, if it
is attained. Thus I, for one, believe there should be more emphasis on it.


 

What do other people think of Andres' posting? Am I off base here? And how
do you all think "success" by a student in ESL  should be defined and/or
measured? It seems to me that unless ESL programs aren't clear about what
counts as "success," students may not be either. And that may contribute to
low persistence and learning gains. 

 

Forrest

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of andresmuro at aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:05 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1137] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

 

Forrest:

The approach works for our program because we are a Spanish speaking
community where we can pretty much teach native language literacy. It would
be tougher to implement in other communities with a mixture of immigrants. 

Regarding progress, the majority of our students start at an average 6 grade
education in Mexico and have been out of school for a while. Most of our
students are migrant/agricultural workers. It takes approximately a year to
a year and 1/2 for them to earn a GED in Spanish. Our lowest level student
had a 2nd grade education and earned her GED within 21/2 years. She was very
motivated. If they have above 6 grade education most complete a GED within a
year. Below six grade it takes between one and two years. 

Problem with ESL is that students tend to get lost in ESL systems. Most ESL
programs don't provide an outcome that has validity beyond the particular
ESL program unless it is a credit college program. So, students will enroll
for a few months to a few years of ESL and then stop and will not really
have much more than a certificate that states that they were in ESL. Unless
they get immersed in an English speaking environment, if they don't continue
in a program they end up forgetting what they learn and starting again in a
different ESL program. 

With WIA/NRS, there is no incentive to move students beyond a few levels
because satisfactory progress is measured by students progressing form
literacy ESL to beginning ESL.  Students may progress a few levels of ESL,
the program shows progress and the students eventually stop attending. They
often reappear in another ESL program starting at the lowest level. I doubt
that there are any programs in the entire country that can show that they
had ESL students that started in literacy ESL and progressed through all the
levels and earned a GED in English. There may be examples of  a few students
but they will be statistically insignificant. 

I am not arguing that there is no value in ESL instruction. However, there
is no value in the way the system measures progress.  It does so through
standardized testing that measures a limited range of academic skills and
has little value to the students. So, the teachers are caught between
teaching the students valuable things that may impact their life (such as
health, immigration, legal rights, etc) and making sure that they show
progress in the BEST Plus or whatever else. The pressure of the teachers to
help the students show progress in these tests before they drop, prevents
them from teaching the meaningful things that people like Heide Wrigley,
Elsa Auerbach, Rimma Rudd and others advocate for. I know that some teachers
make the compromise between trying to mix BEST progress with meaningful
knowledge. However, it is tough. Especially since the only measure of
progress is the BEST plus.  Also, "bringing literacy to life" and "making
meaning making change" are very difficult things to do unless teachers are
trained extensively in this, and devote their entire efforts to do this sort
of stuff and have the right combination of knowledge, skills and abilities.
Mixing this stuff with BEST plus is even harder and most cannot do this. 

Anyways, I have a meeting and I am late.

Andres






-----Original Message-----
From: Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net>
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List' <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 9:59 am
Subject: [Assessment 1135] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

Andres,

 

This is a fascinating approach. Do you apply it to all of your ESL students,
or just the ones at the Literacy Level. It would seem to take a long time
for students to advance through Spanish Literacy, the Spanish GED, and THEN
ESL. Does it? What percentage of students who start down this track
eventually transition to college? And can you say more about the policy
barriers you mention? 

 

What do other folks think about the design Andres describes? Have you tried
any part of it? Would it work for you? If not, why not?

 

Forrest 

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
<mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov?> ] On Behalf Of andresmuro at aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 8:28 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1129] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

 

Problem is that in many ESL people are placed in ESL classes based on an
English placement multiple choice test. A student with advanced education in
L1 and one with little education in L1 may know very little English and they
may both be placed in the same level. The student with advance education
will progress much faster than the one with little education. The advanced
L1 student will understand concepts like sentence, paragraph, verb, subject,
direct object, adjective, composition and essay readily. The one with with
little education will need to understand these concepts. It takes a while
for people to master these concepts. A highly educated L2  learner will
likely progress faster academically in a second language than a fluent
native speaker of that  language with limited academic education, for the
same reason. This is observed regularly in universities all over the US.
highly educated foreign students who acqu ired English as L2 recently will
do better than their English speaking counterparts in academic tasks in
English. Jim Cummins has articulated this clearly with his BICS and CALPS. 

In our program at El Paso Community College we have found evidence of this.
We stopped doing literacy ESL a while back for this reason. The college has
an academic ESL program. Instead of doing ESL literacy we started offering
Spanish Literacy and GED many years ago since the vast majority of our
students are Spanish speakers. Once our students acquire their Spanish GED
they transition into the ESL program and do better than those students who
don't have L1 academic skills. Even if takes them a while to acquire the L1
literacy, they will do better. Those with no L1 literacy often stay in ESL
forever and they drop out, start again in another program, drop out and
continue the same pattern. I think that this happens because of the mixture
of academically ready students and those that are not ready, since most ESL
programs focus on traditional academics. For L1 low literacy students to be
able to progress in L2 there has to be a program specifically designed for
them that teache s skills in L2 in new and innovative ways without
interference from academically skilled L1 students. Right now we don't have
a system that systematically does this, and the WIA/NRS system prevents this
form happening.

Hope that this makes sense,

Andres

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jackie Coelho <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 5:01 am
Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

Forrest,

   I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy background
and those without. These two groups have such different needs. Having both
in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs of either
group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate the class,
and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor does not keep up
with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they often become
frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the instructor keeps
up with those students, the others are unable to keep up and they get
frustrated. 

  I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of
how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.

Jackie

 

On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote: 

To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in
student performance:

 

Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly
educated students do better in terms of  persistence, learning gains, and
transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably
we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education
makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of their
students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That is, do
you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education makes? Or
any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior education that
seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are completely illiterate,
students who at least reached high school, high school graduates, college
graduates, etc. --  or is level of prior education pretty much of a
continuum?

 

More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly
educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably students
with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower level
ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by
definition)  in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes math.
Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at these
levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be desirable
to place less highly educated students in separate classes from those with
more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for them
accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or the
Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these
approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of "bi-lingual
education" that should be tried? 

 

It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the people
who study immigration tell us that the level of education of immigrants has
been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large numbers of
undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means), ESL programs
may be swamped with students who have very little education in their native
countries and too little money to serve them.  So anyone who has any ideas
about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a lot by posting
ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.

 

Forrest Chisman

Vice President

CAAL

 

  

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

 


Hi Jackie, 

Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my
former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual education in
the K-12 school system. 

Tina 

Tina Luffman
Coordinator, Developmental Education
Verde Valley Campus
928-634-6544
tina_luffman at yc.edu 


"Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com> 
Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 

02/05/2008 11:13 AM 


Please respond to
The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>


To

"The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov> 


cc

	

Subject

[Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

 

		




Hi Tina,

This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in
favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in
the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation
in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second
or third language.

Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not
written.

Jackie


On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:
> Hi list members,
>
> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to that
of
> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country
they
> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather quickly
and
> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their country
or
> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much
> advancement.
>
> This experience relates well to research done among Native American tribes
> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
literacy
> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who
tried
> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their own
> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The
> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much
easier
> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this is
> something deserving more research.
>
> Tina
> Tina Luffman
> Coordinator, Developmental Education
> Verde Valley Campus
> 928-634-6544
> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>
> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>
> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>
> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
> Comments?!
>
>
> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
> Warning: (not named).
> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more
> information.
>
> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three
years)
> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance, particularly
if
> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at
> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I
would
> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a student
> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because
he/she
> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try to
> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
concept
> in a second language.
>
> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play a
> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned from
> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than classes).
> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.
It's
> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
teachers.
> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging me
> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're
> making some progress.
>
> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your
> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very
> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that
Dr.
> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of intensity of
> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities for
> professional development.
>
> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL student
> from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
>
> Please post your questions and comments now.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Marie Cora
> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>
>
> Marie Cora
> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
> < <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>  <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>
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From crandall at umbc.edu  Wed Feb  6 15:27:05 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 15:27:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Assessment 1141] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
 Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <8CA36DB4BFA2167-E5C-2BC8@WEBMAIL-MA05.sysops.aol.com>
References: <1dd5701e0802051006i6f9e4473wcc9aa9810ca65f7c@mail.gmail.com>
	<OF56C5D320.83B8357C-ON072573E6.0065B469-072573E6.0065D41F@yc.edu>
	<000d01c86854$6e1dfde0$4a59f9a0$@net>
	<1dd5701e0802060401r7fe15e6apb5e2af1d1564f98a@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CA36DB4BFA2167-E5C-2BC8@WEBMAIL-MA05.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <49516.130.85.83.224.1202329625.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>

Andres,

It is great that you provide Spanish language literacy and GED classes for
your students.  There's no question that native language literacy
contributes not just to the development of the first language, but also to
English language development when students take oral ESL classes.  There
is some research in this area by Michele Burtoff with Haitians in the U.S.
and there is a lot of research (see especially research by David Ramirez
which compares children who had 6, 3 or no years of bilingual education)
that shows that providing bilingual education not only has all the
benefits that would be expected, but students also achieve in English as
well or better than those who only had instruction in English.

We also found that Spanish GED classes had large numbers of students at
the colleges, since students who take the GED in Spanish are able to
bypass the need for extensive ESL just to get this credential.  They might
want to take ESL as well, but the desire for the GED is often for
work-related reasons.  I'm not clear on why you ask students to wait until
after they have passed the GED to take ESL classes.  Can you tell us a
little more about that?

Of course not all students who enroll in adult ESL are Spanish speakers
and there may not be enough who speak any language to provide literacy
classes for them in their own language, but programs might try to partner
with immigrant or refugee-related community-based organizations which
could reach more students and also identify someone to provide the
instruction.  Still, there will  be students who will not be able to take
literacy classes in their own languages and for them, a separate ESL
literacy class seems to be the best option.

It would be great to hear from others about their experiences both with
first language (Spanish and other languages) literacy classes, Spanish GED
classes, and literacy ESL classes.

How do you place students in your literacy classes?  Do you use a
standardized test or do you have informal ways of determining if someone
would be better served in a literacy ESL class?


Jodi

>
>  Problem is that in many ESL people are placed in ESL classes based on an
> English placement multiple choice test. A student with advanced education
> in L1 and one with little education in L1 may know very little English
> and they may both be placed in the same level. The student with advance
> education will progress much faster than the one with little education.
> The advanced L1 student will understand concepts like sentence,
> paragraph, verb, subject, direct object, adjective, composition and essay
> readily. The one with with little education will need to understand these
> concepts. It takes a while for people to master these concepts. A highly
> educated L2? learner will likely progress faster academically in a second
> language than a fluent native speaker of that? language with limited
> academic education, for the same reason. This is observed regularly in
> universities all over the US. highly educated foreign students who
> acquired English as L2 recently will do better than their Eng
>  lish speaking counterparts in academic tasks in English. Jim Cummins has
> articulated this clearly with his BICS and CALPS.
>
> In our program at El Paso Community College we have found evidence of
> this. We stopped doing literacy ESL a while back for this reason. The
> college has an academic ESL program. Instead of doing ESL literacy we
> started offering Spanish Literacy and GED many years ago since the vast
> majority of our students are Spanish speakers. Once our students acquire
> their Spanish GED they transition into the ESL program and do better than
> those students who don't have L1 academic skills. Even if takes them a
> while to acquire the L1 literacy, they will do better. Those with no L1
> literacy often stay in ESL forever and they drop out, start again in
> another program, drop out and continue the same pattern. I think that this
> happens because of the mixture of academically ready students and those
> that are not ready, since most ESL programs focus on traditional
> academics. For L1 low literacy students to be able to progress in L2 there
> has to be a program specifically designed for them that teache
>  s skills in L2 in new and innovative ways without interference from
> academically skilled L1 students. Right now we don't have a system that
> systematically does this, and the WIA/NRS system prevents this form
> happening.
>
> Hope that this makes sense,
>
> Andres
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jackie Coelho <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>
> To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
> Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 5:01 am
> Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
> Comments?!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Forrest,
>
>
> ?? I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy
> background and those without. These two groups have such different needs.
> Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs
> of either group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate
> the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor
> does not keep up with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they
> often become frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the
> instructor keeps up with those students, the others are unable to keep up
> and they get frustrated.
>
>
>
> ? I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of
> how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.
>
>
> Jackie
>
> ?
>
>
> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in
> student performance:
>
>
> ?
>
>
> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly
> educated students do better in terms of ?persistence, learning gains, and
> transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably
> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education
> makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of
> their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That
> is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education
> makes? Or any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior
> education that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are
> completely illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high
> school graduates, college graduates, etc. -- ?or is level of prior
> education pretty much of a continuum?
>
>
>
> ?
>
>
> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly
> educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably students
> with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower
> level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by
> definition) ?in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes
> math. Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at
> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be
> desirable to place less highly educated students in separate classes from
> those with more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for
> them accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or
> the Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these
> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of
> "bi-lingual education" that should be tried?
>
>
>
> ?
>
>
> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the
> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of
> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large
> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means),
> ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very little education
> in their native countries and too little money to serve them. ?So anyone
> who has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a
> lot by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.
>
>
>
> ?
>
>
> Forrest Chisman
>
>
> Vice President
>
>
> CAAL
>
>
> ?
>
>
> ??
>
>
> ?
>
>
>
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
> Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
> To: The Assessment Discussion List
> Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
> Comments?!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ?
>
>
>
> Hi Jackie,
>
> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my
> former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual education
> in the K-12 school system.
>
>
> Tina
>
> Tina Luffman
> Coordinator, Developmental Education
> Verde Valley Campus
> 928-634-6544
> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>
>
> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>
>
> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please respond to
> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To
>
>
>
>
>
> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> cc
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Subject
>
>
>
>
>
> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or ? ? ?
> ?Comments?!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ?
>
>
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>
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>
>
> Hi Tina,
>
> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in
> favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in
>
> the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation
> in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second
> or third language.
>
> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not
> written.
>
>
> Jackie
>
>
> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:
>
>> Hi list members,
>>
>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to that
>> of
>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country
>> they
>
>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather quickly
>> and
>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their country
>> or
>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much
>
>> advancement.
>>
>> This experience relates well to research done among Native American
>> tribes
>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
>> literacy
>
>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who
>> tried
>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their own
>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The
>
>> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much
>> easier
>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this is
>> something deserving more research.
>
>>
>> Tina
>> Tina Luffman
>> Coordinator, Developmental Education
>> Verde Valley Campus
>> 928-634-6544
>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>
>>
>> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>>
>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>
>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>
>> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>
>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
>> Comments?!
>>
>>
>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
>
>> Warning: (not named).
>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more
>> information.
>>
>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three
>> years)
>
>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
>> particularly if
>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at
>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I
>> would
>
>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a
>> student
>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because
>> he/she
>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try
>> to
>
>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
>> concept
>> in a second language.
>>
>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play
>> a
>
>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned
>> from
>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
>> classes).
>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.
>> It's
>
>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
>> teachers.
>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging
>> me
>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're
>
>> making some progress.
>>
>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>
>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
>
>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>
>>
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I'm so surprised! ?No one has anything to comment on regarding your
>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? ?I was very
>
>> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that
>> Dr.
>> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research: ?a lack of intensity
>> of
>> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities
>> for
>
>> professional development.
>>
>> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>> student
>> from advancing? ?What do you try to do about that?
>>
>
>> Please post your questions and comments now.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Marie Cora
>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>
>>
>
>> Marie Cora
>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>
>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>>
>>
>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>> intended
>> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>> addressed.
>> If you have received this email in error please notify the system
>> manager.
>
>> This message contains confidential information and is intended only for
>> the
>> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
>> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
>
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
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>> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
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>> Assessment mailing list
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>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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>> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
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>>
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> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
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> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
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-- 
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html





From taklein at austin.rr.com  Wed Feb  6 16:40:10 2008
From: taklein at austin.rr.com (Ted Klein)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 15:40:10 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1142] Re: Observation checklist
References: <C3CE4BCC.8F31%usha_narayanan@fuhsd.org>	<52294.130.85.83.224.1202268183.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><001e01c868c8$49636de0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
	<000401c868da$73827d70$5a877850$@net>
Message-ID: <002301c86908$d9ab5bc0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>

Forrest,

The person who started the DLIELC testing program, not too long after WW II,  was Sydney Sako. Sydney was a mathematician with a strong interest in language. The people who developed the test items were well-educated language people. I'm a right brained/creative person, who was the second oldest person in his high school class to graduate, because of math. Therefore, I really don't understand the whole process. However, I recognize what works. The English Comprehension Level (ECL) test, was amazingly successful. Each form, and there were many, was normed against other forms and the numbers were very steady. It was a combination of around 120 listening and reading multiple choice items. If you tested students using different forms, the numbers were quite close. Each specialty required a specific score; 65 for admittance to on-the-job training, 90 for Staff College, 85 for pilots, etc. When I was in the program, the failure rate among students who went on into their specialty because of language problems, was very small...something like 5%. In the 1980's the federal Oral Proficiency Interview (OPI) was added for persons who needed specific speaking levels, such as air traffic controllers, pilots, Puerto Rican ROTC graduates to get their commissions and some others. I understand that the ECL is now done on a computer, but the principles remain basically the same. You can get up-to-date information on the current system at http://www.dlielc.org/testing/ecl_test.html  Students who had received a good balance of training; listening, speaking, reading and writing skills and who performed well on the ECL test were generally also proficient orally.

There is a second option, the American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT) which consists of expired ECL tests that DLIELC can sell to recognized educational institutions. Several years ago I tried to get it adapted for Adult Education here, rather than the current system. The effort was almost successful, as a lot of people liked it. It was much quicker and cheaper to administer than what happens now and doesn't depend on opinion. However, acceptance of change is always a problem in anything. I have an article about the ALCPT on my website at http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/lang_tests.html  The ALCPT does not test persons who can't read English, but there are alternative ways to place students in that situation.

Military personnel are much more reflective of the population as a whole than one might imagine. Don't count on the accuracy of my memory on all of the details, but if I recall there was something like a ten percent drop in average proficiency gain monthly, when two or three students were added to a class of ten. DLI Training Management had wheels to predict how long it would take to gain X many points and they were surprisingly accurate. Students were in class four hours a day and two more hours in a supervised lab, five days a week. Scores were used for placement as well as graduation. My personal experience of this whole English Language Training package was positive. There were always complaints, but the proof was in the pudding.

Now I live in the "do your own thing" world which is much more fun. However, I respect other ways of operating. The main difference is that students were in their national uniforms, had to be on time and the system was more "regimented." Occasionally persons from the academic community find teaching jobs there and some of them run away at the first opportunity! Others stay for a career. I managed...and have some fond memories. I have been in ESL since 1961, so DLIELC represents less than half of my career.

Cheers,  Ted

       Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
  Independent Consultant in Language
         and Intercultural Training
              14456 Agarita Road
          Austin, Texas 78734-2009
             Phone:512-266-1801
             taklein at austin.rr.com
            www.tedklein-ESL.com     
             

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Forrest Chisman 
  To: 'The Assessment Discussion List' 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 10:07 AM
  Subject: [Assessment 1132] Re: Observation checklist


  Ted,

   

  This is fascinating stuff. Jodi will probably have more questions about it than I do. (Jodi take note!) My major question is how far one can generalize from the DLIELC experience. After all, military personnel are a "captive audience" and it's part of their "job" to learn English via DLI. As a result, one would assume they are a very motivated bunch. Do you think this skews your finding about class size, instructional time and other variables, or not? Also, how large were the test differences when you "squeezed in" a few more students/class? Do you think the tests were good enough to make those differences meaningful?

   

  Forrest

   

    

   

  From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Ted Klein
  Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 8:58 AM
  To: Jodi Crandall; The Assessment Discussion List
  Subject: [Assessment 1130] Re: Observation checklist

   

  Hi Jodi,

   

  Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times in the past, I think at least once when you visited the Defense Language Institute English Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I mention DLI is that it represents a language program with little leeway to fail. I spent 20 years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is to train allied and friendly military personnel worldwide in general and specialized English. Most students start ESL in their home countries with DLIELC personnel advising, and in some cases teaching, in these overseas military language centers. It may still be the largest language program in the world. Students after reaching certain levels go to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, complete their general English, usually go through specialized terminology and then on to whatever training their country needs with the U.S. military. Students have run the full gamut from recruits and NCO's up to generals and admirals. This is a very tightly organized "well-packaged" language program with predictable training times and results.

   

  Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb while I was at at DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum. This was rarely broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters' bean counter would calculate that if a mere two or three students could be added to a class, voila, look at the money we would save! This money came both from foreign governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue and then try it, I believe several times over the years. However, in an organization that has a very effective testing system; both achievement and proficiency, it was soon noticed that the scores were going down, just enough so that they could prove that no money was being saved on teacher salaries and other expenses. I spent three years with the Royal Thai Navy for DLI as language training advisor and remember having to twist arms with the RTN Navy Education Department with the same problem. They wanted 15 in a class.

   

  Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during my last eight years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes have consistently been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an organization is stuck with a low budget, make the hours of training per week lower, but keep the class sizes within 10 or so students. Fewer hours of really effective training are certainly better than large classes where the student attention level and collegiality are reduced. I remember Mary Finocchiaro saying years ago that she didn't care how many students were in her classroom, she would teach them! Unfortunately, most of us just aren't THAT dynamic.

   

  Cheers,  Ted

  www.tedklein-ESL.com

   

   

   

  ----- Original Message ----- 

  From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>

  To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>

  Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM

  Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist

   

  Usha,

  I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
  experience that with more than 10 students, learning decreases?  If so,
  how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be interested
  in ways to decrease class size.

  It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
  constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more important
  to involve them in activities in which all get to participate, which means
  less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small classes
  need that.

  What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?

  You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop out of
  classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any of you keep
  records of your students that would identify those who do return?  Do you
  have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning English
  outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know of any
  research about adult English Language Learners in this area, but there is
  an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State University
  following adult literacy level students for several years.  They have
  identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside of the
  classroom and also that some of these learners come back to classes after
  being out of them for some time.

  Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of you been
  able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of these
  services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have been most
  effective? If you teach in a community college, have your students had
  access to the various support services provided to other students?

  Several of you have talked about the differences in progress made by
  students with more advanced education and those who are at literacy level.
   Because literacy level students take longer in making progress, most
  programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and literate
  beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and literacy will
  need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to talk about
  what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about persistence
  of literacy level students and their learning gains.

  Students with advanced education in their own language may be able to have
  a condensed program since they are already experienced as students and
  often have high motivation to get through English so that they can take
  courses related to their previous or future career.  City College of San
  Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters worth of
  work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer something along
  these lines?

  Jodi


  > I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked the tool that
  > Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope that it  is
  > not
  > something that has already been asked and answered.
  >
  > The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of our ESL
  > classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal constraints and
  > the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a positive to
  > have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we expect to see
  > more
  > than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the numbers.
  >
  > As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy programs
  > because of many socio-economic factors.
  >
  > In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing market (in past
  > several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to stay in one
  > neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen more in people
  > who do not have high levels of education from their native country).
  >
  > People with a certain level of education (college degrees from their
  > countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some kind of
  > community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs, go in and
  > out
  > of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of various
  > constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and have no time to
  > practice.
  >
  > The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in educational
  > levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
  > availability
  > of  community resources.
  >
  > Usha Narayanan
  > Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
  > California
  > 408-522-2737
  >
  >
  > On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
  >
  >> Marie,
  >>
  >> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and out of the
  >> U.S.A.
  >> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc. in ESL. It
  >> is
  >> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that I'm back
  >> in the
  >> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the Defense
  >> Language
  >> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching immigrants part
  >> time for
  >> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin
  >> Community
  >> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what language
  >> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to work at a
  >> higher
  >> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I apply
  >> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy traps."
  >> I
  >> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
  >> interested and
  >> it is published on my website at
  >> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel absolutely free
  >> to use
  >> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank you very
  >> much for
  >> the input. Questions are welcome.
  >>
  >> Cheers,   Ted
  >>
  >>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
  >>   Independent Consultant in Language
  >>          and Intercultural Training
  >>               14456 Agarita Road
  >>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
  >>              Phone:512-266-1801
  >>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
  >>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
  >>
  >>
  >> ----- Original Message -----
  >>>
  >>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
  >>>
  >>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
  >>>
  >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
  >>>
  >>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> Hi  Ted,
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it yourself?
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try to
  >>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do others
  >>> you
  >>> work with?
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the students
  >>> advance?
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> Marie
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> -----Original Message-----
  >>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
  >>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
  >>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
  >>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
  >>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
  >>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> Marie,
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> Ted
  >>>>
  >>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
  >>>>  NO
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
  >>>>
  >>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
  >>>>
  >>>>    supportive personality?
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
  >>>>
  >>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
  >>>>
  >>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
  >>>>
  >>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
  >>>>
  >>>>    rather than the  instructor?
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
  >>>>
  >>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
  >>>>
  >>>>    other and the instructor?
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
  >>>>
  >>>>     target language  proficiency?
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
  >>>>
  >>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
  >>>>
  >>>>     than push them?
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
  >>>>
  >>>>     exaggerated speech?
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
  >>>>
  >>>>     results?
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
  >>>>
  >>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
  >>>>
  >>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
  >>>>
  >>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> ---- Original Message -----
  >>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
  >>>>>
  >>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
  >>>>>
  >>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
  >>>>>
  >>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>> Hello  everyone,
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on  regarding your
  >>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??  I was
  >>>>> very
  >>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
  >>>>> that
  >>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
  >>>>> intensity
  >>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
  >>>>> opportunities
  >>>>> for  professional development.
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit the ESL
  >>>>> student
  >>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>> Thanks!
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>> Marie  Cora
  >>>>>
  >>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>> Marie  Cora
  >>>>>
  >>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
  >>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
  >>>>>
  >>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
  >>>>>
  >>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>> -------------------------------
  >>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
  >>>>> Assessment mailing list
  >>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
  >>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
  >>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
  >>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> -------------------------------
  >>> National Institute for  Literacy
  >>> Assessment mailing list
  >>> Assessment at nifl.gov
  >>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings, please go to
  >>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
  >>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
  >>
  >>
  >> -------------------------------
  >> National Institute for Literacy
  >> Assessment mailing list
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  >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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  >
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  >
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  > Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
  >


  -- 
  JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
  Professor, Education Department
  Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
  Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
  Education
  University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
  1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
  ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
  email: crandall at umbc.edu
  www.umbc.edu/llc/
  www.umbc.edu/esol/
  www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html



  -------------------------------
  National Institute for Literacy
  Assessment mailing list
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  To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
  Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com



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From forrest at crosslink.net  Wed Feb  6 17:52:38 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 17:52:38 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1143] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
	Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <49509.130.85.83.224.1202328618.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
References: <1dd5701e0802051006i6f9e4473wcc9aa9810ca65f7c@mail.gmail.com>	<OF56C5D320.83B8357C-ON072573E6.0065B469-072573E6.0065D41F@yc.edu>	<000d01c86854$6e1dfde0$4a59f9a0$@net>	<1dd5701e0802060401r7fe15e6apb5e2af1d1564f98a@mail.gmail.com>
	<49509.130.85.83.224.1202328618.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <001f01c86912$fbcc09c0$f3641d40$@net>

Jodi,

I think you misunderstood me (as usual) :-). My question wasn't about
separating out literacy level students. I agree most programs do that. My
question was about the other practice from the 1980's you mention --
separate classes for students with higher levels of prior education ABOVE
the literacy level.

Forrest 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

Jackie and Forrest,

I think most large programs separate literacy level students from others
who are at a beginning level.  I know that back in the 1980s when there
were large refugee ESL programs, several community colleges created
parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels and even into intermediate
levels, with one set of classes for students with limited literacy or
prior schooling and another for more educated students.  The reason was
that the students with less education made slower progress.  Some of this
is undoubtedly due to the way in which we teach English (requiring
literacy), but it is also because students need to become accustomed to
attending classes, learning to hold and use a pen or pencil, and a wide
range of basic skills that come with being a student in a class.

Those of you who have separate classes for those who need literacy:   Can
you tell us what kind of classes or program you provide?

Those who teach both literacy and more educated learners in the same
class:  Can you let us know how you manage?  What are some ways in which
you accommodate both sets of needs?

Jodi
> Forrest,
>    I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy
> background
> and those without. These two groups have such different needs. Having both
> in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs of either
> group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate the class,
> and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor does not keep
> up
> with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they often become
> frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the instructor
> keeps
> up with those students, the others are unable to keep up and they get
> frustrated.
>   I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of
> how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.
> Jackie
>
>
> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:
>>
>>  To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in
>> student performance:
>>
>>
>>
>> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly
>> educated students do better in terms of  persistence, learning gains,
>> and
>> transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this.
>> Regrettably
>> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education
>> makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of
>> their
>> students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That is,
>> do
>> you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education makes?
>> Or
>> any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior education
>> that
>> seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are completely
>> illiterate,
>> students who at least reached high school, high school graduates,
>> college
>> graduates, etc. --  or is level of prior education pretty much of a
>> continuum?
>>
>>
>>
>> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly
>> educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably
>> students
>> with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower
>> level
>> ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by
>> definition)  in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes
>> math.
>> Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at these
>> levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be
>> desirable
>> to place less highly educated students in separate classes from those
>> with
>> more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for them
>> accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or the
>> Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these
>> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of
>> "bi-lingual
>> education" that should be tried?
>>
>>
>>
>> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the
>> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of
>> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large
>> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means),
>> ESL
>> programs may be swamped with students who have very little education in
>> their native countries and too little money to serve them.  So anyone
>> who
>> has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a
>> lot
>> by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.
>>
>>
>>
>> Forrest Chisman
>>
>> Vice President
>>
>> CAAL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
>> *On
>> Behalf Of *Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
>> *To:* The Assessment Discussion List
>> *Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
>> or
>> Comments?!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Jackie,
>>
>> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my
>> former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual
>> education in
>> the K-12 school system.
>>
>> Tina
>>
>> Tina Luffman
>> Coordinator, Developmental Education
>> Verde Valley Campus
>> 928-634-6544
>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>
>>   *"Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>*
>> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>
>> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM
>>
>> Please respond to
>> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>
>> To
>>
>> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>
>> cc
>>
>> Subject
>>
>> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
>>  Comments?!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Tina,
>>
>> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in
>> favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in
>> the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation
>> in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second
>> or third language.
>>
>> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not
>> written.
>>
>> Jackie
>>
>>
>> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:
>> > Hi list members,
>> >
>> > My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to
>> that
>> of
>> > Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country
>> they
>> > came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather
>> quickly
>> and
>> > get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their
>> country
>> or
>> > lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much
>> > advancement.
>> >
>> > This experience relates well to research done among Native American
>> tribes
>> > teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
>> literacy
>> > skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who
>> tried
>> > to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their
>> own
>> > tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The
>> > concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much
>> easier
>> > to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this
>> is
>> > something deserving more research.
>> >
>> > Tina
>> > Tina Luffman
>> > Coordinator, Developmental Education
>> > Verde Valley Campus
>> > 928-634-6544
>> > tina_luffman at yc.edu
>> >
>> > -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>> >
>> > To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>> > From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>
>> > Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>> > Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
>> > Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
>> > Comments?!
>> >
>> >
>> > Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
>> > Warning: (not named).
>> > Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for
>> more
>> > information.
>> >
>> > In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three
>> years)
>> > is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
>> particularly if
>> > they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if
>> at
>> > all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I
>> would
>> > say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a
>> student
>> > who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because
>> he/she
>> > is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is
>> try
>> to
>> > get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
>> concept
>> > in a second language.
>> >
>> > This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't
>> play
>> a
>> > part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned
>> from
>> > another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
>> classes).
>> > My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.
>> It's
>> > hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
>> teachers.
>> > The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is
>> encouraging
>> me
>> > to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think
>> we're
>> > making some progress.
>> >
>> > Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> >
>> > From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
>> > Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
>> > To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>> > Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>> >
>> >
>> > Hello everyone,
>> >
>> > I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your
>> > program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very
>> > curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
>> that
>> Dr.
>> > Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of intensity
>> of
>> > instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities
>> for
>> > professional development.
>> >
>> > What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>> student
>> > from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
>> >
>> > Please post your questions and comments now.
>> >
>> > Thanks!
>> >
>> > Marie Cora
>> > Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>> >
>> >
>> > Marie Cora
>> > marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>> > <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>> > NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>> > <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> >
>> >
>> > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>> intended
>> > solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>> addressed.
>> > If you have received this email in error please notify the system
>> manager.
>> > This message contains confidential information and is intended only
>> for
>> the
>> > individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
>> > disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
>> > -------------------------------
>> > National Institute for Literacy
>> > Assessment mailing list
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>> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> > <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> > Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>> >
>> >
>> > -------------------------------
>> > National Institute for Literacy
>> > Assessment mailing list
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>> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> > <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
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>> > Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>> National Institute for Literacy
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>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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>> Assessment mailing list
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>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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>>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>


-- 
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html



-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to forrest at crosslink.net



From andresmuro at aol.com  Wed Feb  6 18:01:26 2008
From: andresmuro at aol.com (andresmuro at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 18:01:26 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1144] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
 Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <002601c868fe$040b7220$0c225660$@net>
References: <1dd5701e0802051006i6f9e4473wcc9aa9810ca65f7c@mail.gmail.com>	<OF56C5D320.83B8357C-ON072573E6.0065B469-072573E6.0065D41F@yc.edu>	<000d01c86854$6e1dfde0$4a59f9a0$@net>	<1dd5701e0802060401r7fe15e6apb5e2af1d1564f98a@mail.gmail.com>	<8CA36DB4BFA2167-E5C-2BC8@WEBMAIL-MA05.sysops.aol.com>	<001f01c868e1$a99b0ba0$fcd122e0$@net>	<8CA370A4084A35B-1370-EA8@webmail-da11.sysops.aol.com>
	<002601c868fe$040b7220$0c225660$@net>
Message-ID: <8CA372B55F29DA3-1370-1EE6@webmail-da11.sysops.aol.com>


 Forrest:

Regarding GED completion, we have pretty good completion rate. On average it is about 70%. We graduate an average of 200 students a year in our GED Spanish program. Regarding what happens to them after they earn the GED, approximately 30% go to college and another 30% find jobs. Others don't go either route because their legal status or other barriers don't allow them too. We have been trying to track the ones that go to college ESL classes. We have found that a minority finish and continue to go beyond ESL and some have earned associate and Baccalaureate degrees so far. Others don't finish. However, their barriers are not academic. In other words, the majority excel academically in credit ESL but stop attending for different reasons. The advantage of having a GED and being ready for college ESL is that it is a lifelong learning opportunity. If they stay in the program, they will likely do well. On the other hand if they stop half way through, at least they will have credits that will allow them to continue in the future. The GED regardless of the language it is on, it is a door to employment. Employers don't ask what language is the GED in and most GED certificates do not specify it. Also, A GED certificate is one of the possible ways to demonstrate ability to benefit to qualify for financial aid with the feds. 

The way I see it is that success in ABE or college for most of our students depends on many factors beyond purely academic aspects. So, we need to create meaningful outcomes within a short period of time. For those that can acquire native language literacy and work towards a GED there are meaningful outcomes within a short period of time. One thing that helps that Spanish GED students that I forgot to mention is that they can work towards elementary and secondary certificates form Mexico. These provide meaningful intermediate outcomes in the process towards earning the GED. 

For those that need literacy ESL and cannot work towards meaningful certificates in their native language, they need to work towards meaningful outcomes that will facilitate community participation as well as language.? Again, there are multiple models for doing this. However, we need to train teachers to works towards meaningful outcomes that have validity for the students. Completion of literacy ESL, begining ESL or intermediate ESL is meaningless.

Andres


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net>
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List' <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 1:22 pm
Subject: [Assessment 1140] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!

























Andres,



?



I certainly agree with what you say about the limits of WIA/NRS.
And I?m glad your students progress so fast. But what percent of them
earn the Spanish GED? Also I?m not sure what happens to them then.
Although El Paso may be a Spanish=speaking community, our discussion here is
about how to teach students English. Having attained a Spanish GED, do your students
then take ESL classes? If so, how many of your students take ESL classes, and
how far do they advance in learning English BY ANY MEASURE? ?



?



Certainly the mix of skills that should be taught in non-credit ESL
?is an arguable topic. As I understand it, most programs teach ?life
skills? English at the non-credit level. They try to use the sorts of topics
that Elsa and Heide advocate as the content for teaching a progression of
English ?academic skills? (reading, grammar, speaking, etc.) up to
about what (by tests made for native speakers) would be about the 9th
grade level. Both ?life skills? and more ?academic skills?
are presumed to be ?portable skills? needed in an English speaking
country. Programs do this in different ways. Some use a set curriculum; others
use a more ?Frerian? approach to insure the content is relevant to
student interests/needs --(see the profile of Yakima Valley Community ?College
in our ?Torchlights? publication). I?m not sure why you find
this approach problematic. Can you elaborate?



?



I think you are right to raise the question of what the ?terminal
goal? of ESL should be. It?s a question too seldom discussed. What
do others think about it? My impression is that the terminal goal of most
programs is rarely the English GED (although it is at Yakima ? and a significant
percentage reach it). Insofar as most have a ?terminal goal? in
mind it seems to be to help students ?do better? at life and in
work in an English-speaking environment. Effectively, students decide how much ?better?
is enough, because students ?vote with their feet? when they think
they have learned enough (or run out of free time and interest). But if ?terminal
goals? are entirely ?student-centered, it is hard to assess the ?success
of ESL programs -- how much they benefit students. Anything goes! Hence most programs
I know also define success as progression up a series of levels of English
proficiency ? the more progress the better. I?ve encountered few
people who have a problem with this general concept of ?success?
(although it has no singular ?terminal goal?). But many people ?have
trouble with the standardized tests that measure it. Often locally developed
tests are used to get around this problem. 



?



For SOME colleges a secondary ?terminal goal? is
entry to and success in credit courses (or VESL programs) taught in English.
This isn?t a hard ?terminal goal? to measure and has LARGE
economic and other rewards, if it is attained. Thus I, for one, believe there
should be more emphasis on it. ??



?



What do other people think of Andres? posting? Am I off
base here? And how do you all think ?success? by a student in ESL ?should
be defined and/or measured? It seems to me that unless ESL programs aren?t
clear about what counts as ?success,? students may not be either.
And that may contribute to low persistence and learning gains. 



?



Forrest



?






From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of andresmuro at aol.com

Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:05 PM

To: assessment at nifl.gov

Subject: [Assessment 1137] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!






?






Forrest:



The approach works for our program because we are a Spanish speaking community
where we can pretty much teach native language literacy. It would be tougher to
implement in other communities with a mixture of immigrants. 



Regarding progress, the majority of our students start at an average 6 grade
education in Mexico and have been out of school for a while. Most of our
students are migrant/agricultural workers. It takes approximately a year to a
year and 1/2 for them to earn a GED in Spanish. Our lowest level student had a
2nd grade education and earned her GED within 21/2 years. She was very
motivated. If they have above 6 grade education most complete a GED within a
year. Below six grade it takes between one and two years. 



Problem with ESL is that students tend to get lost in ESL systems. Most ESL
programs don't provide an outcome that has validity beyond the particular ESL
program unless it is a credit college program. So, students will enroll for a
few months to a few years of ESL and then stop and will not really have much
more than a certificate that states that they were in ESL. Unless they get
immersed in an English speaking environment, if they don't continue in a
program they end up forgetting what they learn and starting again in a
different ESL program. 



With WIA/NRS, there is no incentive to move students beyond a few levels
because satisfactory progress is measured by students progressing form literacy
ESL to beginning ESL.? Students may progress a few levels of ESL, the
program shows progress and the students eventually stop attending. They often
reappear in another ESL program starting at the lowest level. I doubt that
there are any programs in the entire country that can show that they had ESL
students that started in literacy ESL and progressed through all the levels and
earned a GED in English. There may be examples of? a few students but they
will be statistically insignificant. 



I am not arguing that there is no value in ESL instruction. However, there is
no value in the way the system measures progress.? It does so through
standardized testing that measures a limited range of academic skills and has
little value to the students. So, the teachers are caught between teaching the
students valuable things that may impact their life (such as health, immigration,
legal rights, etc) and making sure that they show progress in the BEST Plus or
whatever else. The pressure of the teachers to help the students show progress
in these tests before they drop, prevents them from teaching the meaningful
things that people like Heide Wrigley, Elsa Auerbach, Rimma Rudd and others
advocate for. I know that some teachers make the compromise between trying to
mix BEST progress with meaningful knowledge. However, it is tough. Especially
since the only measure of progress is the BEST plus.? Also, "bringing
literacy to life" and "making meaning making change" are very
difficult things to do unless teachers are trained extensively in this, and
devote their entire efforts to do this sort of stuff and have the right
combination of knowledge, skills and abilities. Mixing this stuff with BEST
plus is even harder and most cannot do this. 



Anyways, I have a meeting and I am late.



Andres
















-----Original Message-----

From: Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net>

To: 'The Assessment Discussion List' <assessment at nifl.gov>

Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 9:59 am

Subject: [Assessment 1135] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!












Andres,









?









This is a fascinating approach. Do you apply it to all of your ESL
students, or just the ones at the Literacy Level. It would seem to take a long
time for students to advance through Spanish Literacy, the Spanish GED, and
THEN ESL. Does it? What percentage of students who start down this track
eventually transition to college? And can you say more about the policy
barriers you mention? 









?









What do other folks think about the design Andres describes?
Have you tried any part of it? Would it work for you? If not, why not?









?









Forrest 









?












From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of andresmuro at aol.com

Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 8:28 AM

To: assessment at nifl.gov

Subject: [Assessment 1129] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!












?












Problem
is that in many ESL people are placed in ESL classes based on an English
placement multiple choice test. A student with advanced education in L1 and one
with little education in L1 may know very little English and they may both be
placed in the same level. The student with advance education will progress much
faster than the one with little education. The advanced L1 student will
understand concepts like sentence, paragraph, verb, subject, direct object,
adjective, composition and essay readily. The one with with little education
will need to understand these concepts. It takes a while for people to master
these concepts. A highly educated L2? learner will likely progress faster
academically in a second language than a fluent native speaker of that?
language with limited academic education, for the same reason. This is observed
regularly in universities all over the US. highly educated foreign students who
acqu ired English as L2 recently will do better than their English speaking
counterparts in academic tasks in English. Jim Cummins has articulated this
clearly with his BICS and CALPS. 



In our program at El Paso Community College we have found evidence of this. We
stopped doing literacy ESL a while back for this reason. The college has an
academic ESL program. Instead of doing ESL literacy we started offering Spanish
Literacy and GED many years ago since the vast majority of our students are
Spanish speakers. Once our students acquire their Spanish GED they transition
into the ESL program and do better than those students who don't have L1
academic skills. Even if takes them a while to acquire the L1 literacy, they
will do better. Those with no L1 literacy often stay in ESL forever and they
drop out, start again in another program, drop out and continue the same
pattern. I think that this happens because of the mixture of academically ready
students and those that are not ready, since most ESL programs focus on
traditional academics. For L1 low literacy students to be able to progress in
L2 there has to be a program specifically designed for them that teache s
skills in L2 in new and innovative ways without interference from academically
skilled L1 students. Right now we don't have a system that systematically does
this, and the WIA/NRS system prevents this form happening.



Hope that this makes sense,



Andres















?















?












-----Original Message-----

From: Jackie Coelho <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>

To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>

Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 5:01 am

Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!















Forrest,















?? I like the idea of separate classes for those
with a literacy background and those without. These two groups have such
different needs. Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to
meet the needs of either group well and I find that often the stronger students
dominate the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor
does not keep up with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they often
become frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the instructor
keeps up with those students, the others are unable to keep up and they get
frustrated. 















? I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out.
And regardless of how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.















Jackie



?















On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman
<forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:



















To all of you
who commented on level of prior education as a factor in student performance:















?















Everyone with
whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly educated students do
better in terms of ?persistence, learning gains, and transitions. And
learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably we found very little
hard data about how much difference prior education makes, because too few
programs track the level of prior education of their students and correlate it
with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH
difference level of prior education makes? Or any strong impressions? And are
there "cut points" in prior education that seem to make a difference
-- e.g. students who are completely illiterate, students who at least reached
high school, high school graduates, college graduates, etc. -- ?or is
level of prior education pretty much of a continuum?















?















More
importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly educated
students and those with less prior education? Presumably students with very low
levels of education are more likely end up in the lower level ESL courses
(Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by definition) ?in the
business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes math. Why isn't this enough?
In your experience, does the "gap" exist at these levels too, or mainly
at higher levels? At any levels, would it be desirable to place less highly
educated students in separate classes from those with more education and adjust
the curriculum/support systems for them accordingly? Some programs have tried
"native language literacy" or the Spanish GED. What has been the
experience of any of you with these approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an
adult ESL equivalent of "bi-lingual education" that should be tried? 















?















It seems to me
that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the people who study
immigration tell us that the level of education of immigrants has been falling.
And if Immigration Reform mandates large numbers of undocumented people to
"learn English" (whatever that means), ESL programs may be swamped
with students who have very little education in their native countries and too
little money to serve them. ?So anyone who has any ideas about how to
bridge this "education gap" could help us a lot by posting ideas
about how to close it on this discussion list.















?















Forrest Chisman















Vice President















CAAL















?















??















?


















From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu

Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM

To: The Assessment Discussion List

Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!





















?

















Hi Jackie, 



Thank you for this information. I believe this
research must be what my former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for
bilingual education in the K-12 school system. 



Tina 



Tina Luffman

Coordinator, Developmental Education

Verde Valley Campus

928-634-6544

tina_luffman at yc.edu 










 


  

  

  

  
"Jackie Coelho"
  <jackie.coelho at gmail.com> 

  Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
  

  

  

  

  

  
02/05/2008 11:13 AM 

  

  

  

   


    

    
Please respond to

    The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>

    

   

  


  

  

  

   


    

    
To

    

    

    

    

    
"The Assessment
    Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
    

    

    

    

   

   

    

    
cc

    

    



   

   

    

    
Subject

    

    

    

    

    
[Assessment 1108] Re:
    {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or ? ? ?
    ?Comments?!

    

    

    

   

  


  

  

  
?

  

  

  

   


    



    



   

  


  

 


















Hi Tina,



This has been researched already and
is the basis for the arguement in

favor of bilingual education, a good idea
that was not implemented in

the best way. For many years people
have known that a good foundation

in literacy in the first language
will facilitate learning in a second

or third language.



Another interesting twist is the
existence of languages that are not written.



Jackie





On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:

> Hi list members,

>

> My experience teaching ELAA students
in the GED class is similar to that of

> Gail. If the student has a solid
educational background in the country they

> came from in their native
language, they tend to advance rather quickly and

> get their GED. Those coming with
6th grade educations from their country or

> lower tend to stay in the GED
class for years and do not make much

> advancement.

>

> This experience relates well to
research done among Native American tribes

> teaching them English. Those
Native Americans who were first taught literacy

> skills in their own tongue
learned English much quicker than those who tried

> to learn literacy skills in
English without that background in their own

> tongue. I also found similar
problems when I was learning Spanish. The

> concepts I could mentally
translate from English to Spanish were much easier

> to grasp and learn than those I
didn't know in English. Perhaps this is

> something deserving more
research.

>

> Tina

> Tina Luffman

> Coordinator, Developmental
Education

> Verde Valley Campus

> 928-634-6544

> tina_luffman at yc.edu

>

> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
wrote: -----

>

> To: "The Assessment
Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>

> From: "Gail Burnett"
<gburnett at sanford.org>

> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov

> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM

> Subject: [Assessment 1104]
{Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or

> Comments?!

>

>

> Warning: This message has had
one or more attachments removed

> Warning: (not named).

> Warning: Please read the
"AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more

> information.

>

> In our small adult education
program, my experience (just about three years)

> is that students with solid
educational backgrounds advance, particularly if

> they're not working too many
hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at

> all, are immigrants who are
barely literate in their first language. I would

> say that lack of education is a
bigger factor than lack of time; a student

> who works full-time and is
exhausted often will still succeed because he/she

> is familiar with academic work,
and is goal-oriented. What we do is try to

> get our low-level students to
come up with goals, but that's a hard concept

> in a second language.

>

> This does not mean that the
factors mentioned in the research don't play a

> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained
teachers (transitioned from

> another career, got trained
mainly through workshops rather than classes).

> My skill level very well may
contribute to students' slow advancement. It's

> hard for small adult education
programs to get highly skilled ESL teachers.

> The pay is low and there are no
benefits. But my program is encouraging me

> to get extra training and has me
on a plan of improvement. I think we're

> making some progress.

>

> Does this address any of the
issues? And am I submitting it right?

>

> ________________________________

>

> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on
behalf of Marie Cora

> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM

> To: Assessment at nifl.gov

> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No
Questions or Comments?!

>

>

> Hello everyone,

>

> I'm so surprised! ?No one
has anything to comment on regarding your

> program's effectiveness at
helping ESL students advance?? ?I was very

> curious to know if subscribers
experience the same types of issues that Dr.

> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found
in their research: ?a lack of intensity of

> instruction/few protocols for
transitioning students/few opportunities for

> professional development.

>

> What are the issues in your
program that you feel inhibit the ESL student

> from advancing? ?What do
you try to do about that?

>

> Please post your questions and
comments now.

>

> Thanks!

>

> Marie Cora

> Assessment Discussion List
Moderator

>

>

> Marie Cora

> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>

> NIFL Assessment Discussion List
Moderator

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

>

>

> This email and any files
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From forrest at crosslink.net  Wed Feb  6 18:09:43 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 18:09:43 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1145] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <002301c86908$d9ab5bc0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
References: <C3CE4BCC.8F31%usha_narayanan@fuhsd.org>	<52294.130.85.83.224.1202268183.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><001e01c868c8$49636de0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>	<000401c868da$73827d70$5a877850$@net>
	<002301c86908$d9ab5bc0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
Message-ID: <002001c86915$5e8c93c0$1ba5bb40$@net>

Ted,

 

I find that absolutely fascinating and thank you for sharing it. Yes, a 10%
decline is significant. I?m surprised that someone hasn?t tried to export
these military assessments to the civilian sector ? given the general
dissatisfaction with the assessments most commonly used. Has this been
actively explored by anyone you know? Is there any reason why it shouldn?t
be? Was there anything more than inertia to the resistance you met?

 

My other point had to do with motivation. As you know, it?s a big problem in
ESL classes. Presumably military personnel under orders to ?learn English?
are highly motivated. I?m just wondering what difference that would make in
appropriate class size and other variables. Any ideas? For example, one
reason for larger classes in many ESL programs is (I think) that all
students don?t show up at all sessions, and there is attrition throughout
the year.

 

But you?ve given me, at least, a string to follow. And I will.

 

Forrest    

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Ted Klein
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 4:40 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1142] Re: Observation checklist

 

Forrest,

 

The person who started the DLIELC testing program, not too long after WW II,
was Sydney Sako. Sydney was a mathematician with a strong interest in
language. The people who developed the test items were well-educated
language people. I'm a right brained/creative person, who was the second
oldest person in his high school class to graduate, because of math.
Therefore, I really don't understand the whole process. However, I recognize
what works. The English Comprehension Level (ECL) test, was amazingly
successful. Each form, and there were many, was normed against other forms
and the numbers were very steady. It was a combination of around 120
listening and reading multiple choice items. If you tested students using
different forms, the numbers were quite close. Each specialty required a
specific score; 65 for admittance to on-the-job training, 90 for Staff
College, 85 for pilots, etc. When I was in the program, the failure rate
among students who went on into their specialty because of language
problems, was very small...something like 5%. In the 1980's the federal Oral
Proficiency Interview (OPI) was added for persons who needed specific
speaking levels, such as air traffic controllers, pilots, Puerto Rican ROTC
graduates to get their commissions and some others. I understand that the
ECL is now done on a computer, but the principles remain basically the same.
You can get up-to-date information on the current system at
http://www.dlielc.org/testing/ecl_test.html  Students who had received a
good balance of training; listening, speaking, reading and writing skills
and who performed well on the ECL test were generally also proficient
orally.

 

There is a second option, the American Language Course Placement Test
(ALCPT) which consists of expired ECL tests that DLIELC can sell to
recognized educational institutions. Several years ago I tried to get it
adapted for Adult Education here, rather than the current system. The effort
was almost successful, as a lot of people liked it. It was much quicker and
cheaper to administer than what happens now and doesn't depend on opinion.
However, acceptance of change is always a problem in anything. I have an
article about the ALCPT on my website at
http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/lang_tests.html  The ALCPT does not test
persons who can't read English, but there are alternative ways to place
students in that situation.

 

Military personnel are much more reflective of the population as a whole
than one might imagine. Don't count on the accuracy of my memory on all of
the details, but if I recall there was something like a ten percent drop in
average proficiency gain monthly, when two or three students were added to a
class of ten. DLI Training Management had wheels to predict how long it
would take to gain X many points and they were surprisingly accurate.
Students were in class four hours a day and two more hours in a supervised
lab, five days a week. Scores were used for placement as well as graduation.
My personal experience of this whole English Language Training package was
positive. There were always complaints, but the proof was in the pudding.

 

Now I live in the "do your own thing" world which is much more fun. However,
I respect other ways of operating. The main difference is that students were
in their national uniforms, had to be on time and the system was more
"regimented." Occasionally persons from the academic community find teaching
jobs there and some of them run away at the first opportunity! Others stay
for a career. I managed...and have some fond memories. I have been in ESL
since 1961, so DLIELC represents less than half of my career.

 

Cheers,  Ted

 

       Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
  Independent Consultant in Language
         and Intercultural Training
              14456 Agarita Road
          Austin, Texas 78734-2009
             Phone:512-266-1801
             taklein at austin.rr.com
            www.tedklein-ESL.com     
             

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Forrest Chisman <mailto:forrest at crosslink.net>  

To: 'The Assessment <mailto:assessment at nifl.gov>  Discussion List' 

Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 10:07 AM

Subject: [Assessment 1132] Re: Observation checklist

 

Ted,

 

This is fascinating stuff. Jodi will probably have more questions about it
than I do. (Jodi take note!) My major question is how far one can generalize
from the DLIELC experience. After all, military personnel are a ?captive
audience? and it?s part of their ?job? to learn English via DLI. As a
result, one would assume they are a very motivated bunch. Do you think this
skews your finding about class size, instructional time and other variables,
or not? Also, how large were the test differences when you ?squeezed in? a
few more students/class? Do you think the tests were good enough to make
those differences meaningful?

 

Forrest

 

  

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Ted Klein
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 8:58 AM
To: Jodi Crandall; The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1130] Re: Observation checklist

 

Hi Jodi,

 

Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times in the past, I
think at least once when you visited the Defense Language Institute English
Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I mention DLI is
that it represents a language program with little leeway to fail. I spent 20
years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is to train allied and
friendly military personnel worldwide in general and specialized English.
Most students start ESL in their home countries with DLIELC personnel
advising, and in some cases teaching, in these overseas military language
centers. It may still be the largest language program in the world. Students
after reaching certain levels go to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio,
complete their general English, usually go through specialized terminology
and then on to whatever training their country needs with the U.S. military.
Students have run the full gamut from recruits and NCO's up to generals and
admirals. This is a very tightly organized "well-packaged" language program
with predictable training times and results.

 

Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb while I was at at
DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum. This was rarely
broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters' bean counter would
calculate that if a mere two or three students could be added to a class,
voila, look at the money we would save! This money came both from foreign
governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue and then try it, I believe
several times over the years. However, in an organization that has a very
effective testing system; both achievement and proficiency, it was soon
noticed that the scores were going down, just enough so that they could
prove that no money was being saved on teacher salaries and other expenses.
I spent three years with the Royal Thai Navy for DLI as language training
advisor and remember having to twist arms with the RTN Navy Education
Department with the same problem. They wanted 15 in a class.

 

Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during my last eight
years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes have consistently
been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an organization is stuck
with a low budget, make the hours of training per week lower, but keep the
class sizes within 10 or so students. Fewer hours of really effective
training are certainly better than large classes where the student attention
level and collegiality are reduced. I remember Mary Finocchiaro saying years
ago that she didn't care how many students were in her classroom, she would
teach them! Unfortunately, most of us just aren't THAT dynamic.

 

Cheers,  Ted

www.tedklein-ESL.com

 

 

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>

To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>

Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM

Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist

 

Usha,

I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
experience that with more than 10 students, learning decreases?  If so,
how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be interested
in ways to decrease class size.

It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more important
to involve them in activities in which all get to participate, which means
less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small classes
need that.

What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?

You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop out of
classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any of you keep
records of your students that would identify those who do return?  Do you
have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning English
outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know of any
research about adult English Language Learners in this area, but there is
an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State University
following adult literacy level students for several years.  They have
identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside of the
classroom and also that some of these learners come back to classes after
being out of them for some time.

Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of you been
able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of these
services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have been most
effective? If you teach in a community college, have your students had
access to the various support services provided to other students?

Several of you have talked about the differences in progress made by
students with more advanced education and those who are at literacy level.
 Because literacy level students take longer in making progress, most
programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and literate
beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and literacy will
need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to talk about
what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about persistence
of literacy level students and their learning gains.

Students with advanced education in their own language may be able to have
a condensed program since they are already experienced as students and
often have high motivation to get through English so that they can take
courses related to their previous or future career.  City College of San
Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters worth of
work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer something along
these lines?

Jodi


> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked the tool that
> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope that it  is
> not
> something that has already been asked and answered.
>
> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of our ESL
> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal constraints and
> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a positive to
> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we expect to see
> more
> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the numbers.
>
> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy programs
> because of many socio-economic factors.
>
> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing market (in past
> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to stay in one
> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen more in people
> who do not have high levels of education from their native country).
>
> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from their
> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some kind of
> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs, go in and
> out
> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of various
> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and have no time to
> practice.
>
> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in educational
> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
> availability
> of  community resources.
>
> Usha Narayanan
> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
> California
> 408-522-2737
>
>
> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Marie,
>>
>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and out of the
>> U.S.A.
>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc. in ESL. It
>> is
>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that I'm back
>> in the
>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the Defense
>> Language
>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching immigrants part
>> time for
>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin
>> Community
>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what language
>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to work at a
>> higher
>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I apply
>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy traps."
>> I
>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
>> interested and
>> it is published on my website at
>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel absolutely free
>> to use
>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank you very
>> much for
>> the input. Questions are welcome.
>>
>> Cheers,   Ted
>>
>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>>   Independent Consultant in Language
>>          and Intercultural Training
>>               14456 Agarita Road
>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>>              Phone:512-266-1801
>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>
>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
>>>
>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi  Ted,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it yourself?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try to
>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do others
>>> you
>>> work with?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the students
>>> advance?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Marie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marie,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ted
>>>>
>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
>>>>  NO
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
>>>>
>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
>>>>
>>>>    supportive personality?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
>>>>
>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
>>>>
>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
>>>>
>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
>>>>
>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
>>>>
>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
>>>>
>>>>    other and the instructor?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
>>>>
>>>>     target language  proficiency?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
>>>>
>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
>>>>
>>>>     than push them?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
>>>>
>>>>     exaggerated speech?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
>>>>
>>>>     results?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
>>>>
>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
>>>>
>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
>>>>
>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello  everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on  regarding your
>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??  I was
>>>>> very
>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
>>>>> that
>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
>>>>> intensity
>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
>>>>> opportunities
>>>>> for  professional development.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>>>>> student
>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>
>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>
>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>> Assessment mailing list
>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to usha_narayanan at fuhsd.org
>
>
>
> Scanned by Barracuda Spam Firewall
> -------------------------------
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> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>


-- 
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html



-------------------------------
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Assessment mailing list
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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com

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-------------------------------
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From andresmuro at aol.com  Wed Feb  6 18:21:02 2008
From: andresmuro at aol.com (andresmuro at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 18:21:02 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1146] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
 Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <49516.130.85.83.224.1202329625.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
References: <1dd5701e0802051006i6f9e4473wcc9aa9810ca65f7c@mail.gmail.com>	<OF56C5D320.83B8357C-ON072573E6.0065B469-072573E6.0065D41F@yc.edu>	<000d01c86854$6e1dfde0$4a59f9a0$@net>	<1dd5701e0802060401r7fe15e6apb5e2af1d1564f98a@mail.gmail.com>	<8CA36DB4BFA2167-E5C-2BC8@WEBMAIL-MA05.sysops.aol.com>
	<49516.130.85.83.224.1202329625.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <8CA372E1335CD5E-1370-2018@webmail-da11.sysops.aol.com>


 Jodi:

The credit ESL program in the college is very academic. However it provides students with financial aid and other goodies. We feel that the students will not do well in a credit academic ESL program until they have a level comparable to GED in their native language. Also, a GED certificate is a way to demonstrate ability to benefit to qualify for financial aid. Those students who get into the credit ESL program without native language literacy don't do well. 

Students can attend other ESL classes in the community while they are attending our classes. We stopped providing ESL because of limited funding to provide what we would consider meaningful ESL. Also, our Spanish GED program is fairly intensive and our students would not have enough time to attend an additional program.  We have a few students who may be attending our classes and an ESL class concurrently. Those are a minority

The truth is that we started as an ESL literacy program many years ago. There was virtually no funding for? literacy ESL unless it? had all kind of testing  requirements. Also, it is very hard to train teachers to be really good at ESL. The system  that encourages large number of untrained part timers prevents this from happening. 

I know that a lot of people in these listservs claim exemplary service and illustrate? with examples of what they have done. I don't doubt that? their claims are 100% true. However,? we are in the minority. If I could get you and Heide and Elsa and Andy Nash and  Leonore and Deborah Schwartz, and Anson Green and Federico and others to be my ESL teachers, I would have the best program in the world. However, the fact is that in addition to the barriers that ESL students face in their daily lives, plus the bureaucratic and assessment barriers that the system creates for teachers and students, plus the difficulty hiring and retaining highly qualified ESL staff makes it very difficult to have a successful ESL program. 

I feel that until we get rid of WIA/NRS it will be tough to create good stuff in a systematic way. 

Andres
 



 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 1:27 pm
Subject: [Assessment 1141] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!










Andres,

It is great that you provide Spanish language literacy and GED classes for
your students.  There's no question that native language literacy
contributes not just to the development of the first language, but also to
English language development when students take oral ESL classes.  There
is some research in this area by Michele Burtoff with Haitians in the U.S.
and there is a lot of research (see especially research by David Ramirez
which compares children who had 6, 3 or no years of bilingual education)
that shows that providing bilingual education not only has all the
benefits that would be expected, but students also achieve in English as
well or better than those who only had instruction in English.

We also found that Spanish GED classes had large numbers of students at
the colleges, since students who take the GED in Spanish are able to
bypass the need for extensive ESL just to get this credential.  They might
want to take ESL as well, but the desire for the GED is often for
work-related reasons.  I'm not clear on why you ask students to wait until
after they have passed the GED to take ESL classes.  Can you tell us a
little more about that?

Of course not all students who enroll in adult ESL are Spanish speakers
and there may not be enough who speak any language to provide literacy
classes for them in their own language, but programs might try to partner
with immigrant or refugee-related community-based organizations which
could reach more students and also identify someone to provide the
instruction.  Still, there will  be students who will not be able to take
literacy classes in their own languages and for them, a separate ESL
literacy class seems to be the best option.

It would be great to hear from others about their experiences both with
first language (Spanish and other languages) literacy classes, Spanish GED
classes, and literacy ESL classes.

How do you place students in your literacy classes?  Do you use a
standardized test or do you have informal ways of determining if someone
would be better served in a literacy ESL class?


Jodi

>
>  Problem is that in many ESL people are placed in ESL classes based on an
> English placement multiple choice test. A student with advanced education
> in L1 and one with little education in L1 may know very little English
> and they may both be placed in the same level. The student with advance
> education will progress much faster than the one with little education.
> The advanced L1 student will understand concepts like sentence,
> paragraph, verb, subject, direct object, adjective, composition and essay
> readily. The one with with little education will need to understand these
> concepts. It takes a while for people to master these concepts. A highly
> educated L2? learner will likely progress faster academically in a second
> language than a fluent native speaker of that? language with limited
> academic education, for the same reason. This is observed regularly in
> universities all over the US. highly educated foreign students who
> acquired English as L2 recently will do better than their Eng
>  lish speaking counterparts in academic tasks in English. Jim Cummins has
> articulated this clearly with his BICS and CALPS.
>
> In our program at El Paso Community College we have found evidence of
> this. We stopped doing literacy ESL a while back for this reason. The
> college has an academic ESL program. Instead of doing ESL literacy we
> started offering Spanish Literacy and GED many years ago since the vast
> majority of our students are Spanish speakers. Once our students acquire
> their Spanish GED they transition into the ESL program and do better than
> those students who don't have L1 academic skills. Even if takes them a
> while to acquire the L1 literacy, they will do better. Those with no L1
> literacy often stay in ESL forever and they drop out, start again in
> another program, drop out and continue the same pattern. I think that this
> happens because of the mixture of academically ready students and those
> that are not ready, since most ESL programs focus on traditional
> academics. For L1 low literacy students to be able to progress in L2 there
> has to be a program specifically designed for them that teache
>  s skills in L2 in new and innovative ways without interference from
> academically skilled L1 students. Right now we don't have a system that
> systematically does this, and the WIA/NRS system prevents this form
> happening.
>
> Hope that this makes sense,
>
> Andres
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jackie Coelho <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>
> To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
> Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 5:01 am
> Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
> Comments?!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Forrest,
>
>
> ?? I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy
> background and those without. These two groups have such different needs.
> Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs
> of either group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate
> the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor
> does not keep up with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they
> often become frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the
> instructor keeps up with those students, the others are unable to keep up
> and they get frustrated.
>
>
>
> ? I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of
> how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.
>
>
> Jackie
>
> ?
>
>
> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in
> student performance:
>
>
> ?
>
>
> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly
> educated students do better in terms of ?persistence, learning gains, and
> transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably
> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education
> makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of
> their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That
> is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education
> makes? Or any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior
> education that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are
> completely illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high
> school graduates, college graduates, etc. -- ?or is level of prior
> education pretty much of a continuum?
>
>
>
> ?
>
>
> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly
> educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably students
> with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower
> level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by
> definition) ?in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes
> math. Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at
> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be
> desirable to place less highly educated students in separate classes from
> those with more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for
> them accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or
> the Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these
> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of
> "bi-lingual education" that should be tried?
>
>
>
> ?
>
>
> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the
> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of
> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large
> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means),
> ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very little education
> in their native countries and too little money to serve them. ?So anyone
> who has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a
> lot by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.
>
>
>
> ?
>
>
> Forrest Chisman
>
>
> Vice President
>
>
> CAAL
>
>
> ?
>
>
> ??
>
>
> ?
>
>
>
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
> Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
> To: The Assessment Discussion List
> Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
> Comments?!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ?
>
>
>
> Hi Jackie,
>
> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my
> former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual education
> in the K-12 school system.
>
>
> Tina
>
> Tina Luffman
> Coordinator, Developmental Education
> Verde Valley Campus
> 928-634-6544
> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>
>
> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>
>
> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please respond to
> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To
>
>
>
>
>
> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> cc
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Subject
>
>
>
>
>
> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or ? ? ?
> ?Comments?!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Tina,
>
> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in
> favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in
>
> the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation
> in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second
> or third language.
>
> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not
> written.
>
>
> Jackie
>
>
> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:
>
>> Hi list members,
>>
>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to that
>> of
>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country
>> they
>
>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather quickly
>> and
>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their country
>> or
>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much
>
>> advancement.
>>
>> This experience relates well to research done among Native American
>> tribes
>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
>> literacy
>
>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who
>> tried
>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their own
>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The
>
>> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much
>> easier
>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this is
>> something deserving more research.
>
>>
>> Tina
>> Tina Luffman
>> Coordinator, Developmental Education
>> Verde Valley Campus
>> 928-634-6544
>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>
>>
>> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>>
>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>
>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>
>> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>
>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
>> Comments?!
>>
>>
>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
>
>> Warning: (not named).
>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more
>> information.
>>
>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three
>> years)
>
>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
>> particularly if
>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at
>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I
>> would
>
>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a
>> student
>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because
>> he/she
>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try
>> to
>
>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
>> concept
>> in a second language.
>>
>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play
>> a
>
>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned
>> from
>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
>> classes).
>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.
>> It's
>
>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
>> teachers.
>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging
>> me
>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're
>
>> making some progress.
>>
>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>
>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
>
>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>
>>
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I'm so surprised! ?No one has anything to comment on regarding your
>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? ?I was very
>
>> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that
>> Dr.
>> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research: ?a lack of intensity
>> of
>> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities
>> for
>
>> professional development.
>>
>> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>> student
>> from advancing? ?What do you try to do about that?
>>
>
>> Please post your questions and comments now.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Marie Cora
>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>
>>
>
>> Marie Cora
>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>
>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>>
>>
>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
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>> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>> addressed.
>> If you have received this email in error please notify the system
>> manager.
>
>> This message contains confidential information and is intended only for
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>> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
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>
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
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>> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>
>>
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>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
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>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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>>
>>
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> National Institute for Literacy
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-- 
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html



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From taklein at austin.rr.com  Wed Feb  6 20:16:21 2008
From: taklein at austin.rr.com (Ted Klein)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 19:16:21 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1147] Re: Observation checklist
References: <C3CE4BCC.8F31%usha_narayanan@fuhsd.org><52294.130.85.83.224.1202268183.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><001e01c868c8$49636de0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
	<49507.130.85.83.224.1202328350.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <007e01c86927$0ca72220$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>

Jodi,

Same here! As long as the BEST Test is used to show gains, I'm afraid that there isn't much chance that REAL gains could be charted and compared. It is used too often to measure progress and is not as good for that purpose as one would hope. Really valid proficiency tests are the only way to prove the point. Achievement tests don't tell much in terms of overall progress. I would also guess that it would take a minimum of 120 hours of solid training to have a measureable level with any test that one could play numbers with. Other factors including attendance, etc. would have to be factored in. Adults have families and jobs in the way of total dedication to attendance. Also, one would have to have a test in which human judgment would play a small role. The BEST is fine for its original purpose, which was to place persons with others at their same levels of communication. Good measurement is the only way to prove anything. I often rely on plain old gut instincts to figure how things are really going. I know that's not very scientific.

Cheers,  Ted
www.tedklein-ESL.com 


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:05 PM
Subject: [Assessment 1138] Re: Observation checklist


Hi, Ted.  Glad to make contact again.

I definitely agree that smaller classes are more likely to bring learner
gains, especially in language, since students will have more opportunity
to speak when there are fewer students.  I didn't know about the DLI
policy, but it is a good one.  The problem with adult ESL classes, I fear,
is that there is such limited money available that programs would find it
difficult to keep class size to these numbers.

Has anyone tried to reduce class size and chart the learning gains?  If
so, please share with us all.  It might be that this would be a good
investment.  If students in smaller classes make faster gains, then there
would be more spaces available as these students transitioned to other
classes or the workforce.

Jodi

Hi Jodi,
>
> Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times in the past,
> I think at least once when you visited the Defense Language Institute
> English Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I mention
> DLI is that it represents a language program with little leeway to fail. I
> spent 20 years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is to train
> allied and friendly military personnel worldwide in general and
> specialized English. Most students start ESL in their home countries with
> DLIELC personnel advising, and in some cases teaching, in these overseas
> military language centers. It may still be the largest language program in
> the world. Students after reaching certain levels go to Lackland Air Force
> Base in San Antonio, complete their general English, usually go through
> specialized terminology and then on to whatever training their country
> needs with the U.S. military. Students have run the full gamut from
> recruits and NCO's up to generals and admirals. This is a very tightly
> organized "well-packaged" language program with predictable training times
> and results.
>
> Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb while I was at
> at DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum. This was
> rarely broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters' bean
> counter would calculate that if a mere two or three students could be
> added to a class, voila, look at the money we would save! This money came
> both from foreign governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue and then try
> it, I believe several times over the years. However, in an organization
> that has a very effective testing system; both achievement and
> proficiency, it was soon noticed that the scores were going down, just
> enough so that they could prove that no money was being saved on teacher
> salaries and other expenses. I spent three years with the Royal Thai Navy
> for DLI as language training advisor and remember having to twist arms
> with the RTN Navy Education Department with the same problem. They wanted
> 15 in a class.
>
> Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during my last
> eight years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes have
> consistently been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an
> organization is stuck with a low budget, make the hours of training per
> week lower, but keep the class sizes within 10 or so students. Fewer hours
> of really effective training are certainly better than large classes where
> the student attention level and collegiality are reduced. I remember Mary
> Finocchiaro saying years ago that she didn't care how many students were
> in her classroom, she would teach them! Unfortunately, most of us just
> aren't THAT dynamic.
>
> Cheers,  Ted
> www.tedklein-ESL.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM
> Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist
>
>
> Usha,
>
> I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
> experience that with more than 10 students, learning decreases?  If so,
> how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be interested
> in ways to decrease class size.
>
> It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
> constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more important
> to involve them in activities in which all get to participate, which means
> less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small classes
> need that.
>
> What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?
>
> You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop out of
> classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any of you keep
> records of your students that would identify those who do return?  Do you
> have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning English
> outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know of any
> research about adult English Language Learners in this area, but there is
> an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State University
> following adult literacy level students for several years.  They have
> identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside of the
> classroom and also that some of these learners come back to classes after
> being out of them for some time.
>
> Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of you been
> able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of these
> services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have been most
> effective? If you teach in a community college, have your students had
> access to the various support services provided to other students?
>
> Several of you have talked about the differences in progress made by
> students with more advanced education and those who are at literacy level.
>  Because literacy level students take longer in making progress, most
> programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and literate
> beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and literacy will
> need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to talk about
> what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about persistence
> of literacy level students and their learning gains.
>
> Students with advanced education in their own language may be able to have
> a condensed program since they are already experienced as students and
> often have high motivation to get through English so that they can take
> courses related to their previous or future career.  City College of San
> Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters worth of
> work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer something along
> these lines?
>
> Jodi
>
>
>> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked the tool
>> that
>> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope that it  is
>> not
>> something that has already been asked and answered.
>>
>> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of our ESL
>> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal constraints
>> and
>> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a positive to
>> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we expect to see
>> more
>> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the numbers.
>>
>> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy programs
>> because of many socio-economic factors.
>>
>> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing market (in
>> past
>> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to stay in
>> one
>> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen more in
>> people
>> who do not have high levels of education from their native country).
>>
>> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from their
>> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some kind of
>> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs, go in and
>> out
>> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of various
>> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and have no time
>> to
>> practice.
>>
>> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in educational
>> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
>> availability
>> of  community resources.
>>
>> Usha Narayanan
>> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
>> California
>> 408-522-2737
>>
>>
>> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Marie,
>>>
>>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and out of the
>>> U.S.A.
>>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc. in ESL. It
>>> is
>>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that I'm back
>>> in the
>>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the Defense
>>> Language
>>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching immigrants part
>>> time for
>>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin
>>> Community
>>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what language
>>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to work at a
>>> higher
>>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I apply
>>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy
>>> traps."
>>> I
>>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
>>> interested and
>>> it is published on my website at
>>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel absolutely free
>>> to use
>>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank you very
>>> much for
>>> the input. Questions are welcome.
>>>
>>> Cheers,   Ted
>>>
>>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>>>   Independent Consultant in Language
>>>          and Intercultural Training
>>>               14456 Agarita Road
>>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>>>              Phone:512-266-1801
>>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
>>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>
>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
>>>>
>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi  Ted,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it
>>>> yourself?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try to
>>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do others
>>>> you
>>>> work with?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the students
>>>> advance?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
>>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
>>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ted
>>>>>
>>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
>>>>>  NO
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
>>>>>
>>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
>>>>>
>>>>>    supportive personality?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
>>>>>
>>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
>>>>>
>>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
>>>>>
>>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
>>>>>
>>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
>>>>>
>>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
>>>>>
>>>>>    other and the instructor?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
>>>>>
>>>>>     target language  proficiency?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
>>>>>
>>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
>>>>>
>>>>>     than push them?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
>>>>>
>>>>>     exaggerated speech?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
>>>>>
>>>>>     results?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
>>>>>
>>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
>>>>>
>>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
>>>>>
>>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---- Original Message -----
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello  everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on  regarding your
>>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??  I was
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
>>>>>> intensity
>>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
>>>>>> opportunities
>>>>>> for  professional development.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>>>>>> student
>>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>>
>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>
>
> --
> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Professor, Education Department
> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
> Education
> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
> email: crandall at umbc.edu
> www.umbc.edu/llc/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
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> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>


-- 
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html



-------------------------------
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From rhinkle at raritanval.edu  Wed Feb  6 21:18:58 2008
From: rhinkle at raritanval.edu (Hinkle, Robert)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 21:18:58 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1148]  (no subject)
Message-ID: <CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B2E@exchr.raritanval.edu>

Hi All,
 
I have been reading most of the discussion comments and wanted to address a few issues. First, however, I'll give a summary of our program. 
 
I teach ESL at Raritan Valley Community College in New Jersey. Our program serves approximately 350 students from diverse language backgrounds. Our program offers two pre-academic levels of all skills ESL instruction (a six hour per week non-credit class). In addition, we have 5 levels of academic ESL preparation divided into three courses - Reading/Writing, Grammar, and Speaking/Listening). Our highest level Reading/Writing course gives successful students 6 elective credits that count towards RVCC graduation, but those credits do not transfer. Our semesters are 15 weeks. If a student misses 20% of any class, the instructor may withdraw that student (they are not, however, obliged to withdraw these students). At the moment, the late enrollment policy is that students may register for a course prior to the second week of class but not thereafter. Research, of course, indicates that students who begin a class late have a much higher rate of failure than those who begin on time. 
 
In our program, we have three full-time faculty and approximately 16-18 adjuncts. 
 
We have focused our program on academic prep ESL because we are a small program with limited resources, and we have a very difficult time finding qualified adjuncts. Also, a significant majority of our students have signalled their intention to obtain a college degree. Moreover, there are community programs that offer basic English skills although there is often a long waiting list to obtain the services. In other issues, we use the Accuplacer ESL test for placement and have in-house standardized tests at the end of each level of grammar and reading/writing
 
Within our classes, highly educated non-native speakers usually progress much more quickly. One of the most challenging groups is students who graduated from local high schools but still have inadequate English skills - and not infrequently, weak academic skills in general. One of the strategies that I would personally wish for is real communication between K-12 and community colleges so that students get the language skills they need before they enter college. I understand that there is great pressure to move students out of ESL in many school districts, but ultimately, it does a huge disservice both financially and in terms of motivation to students whose skills remain more BICS than CALP. 
 
I agree with those who suggest that first language literacy issues should be addressed before students enter ESL. However, it becomes complicated to find funding and support for such efforts. In my experience, students with low level literacy skills become frustrated and are not ultimately successful - probably by any definition. I am uncomfortable with the idea that they are spending hard-earned money when the chances for success in ESL are minimal. We advise students that the program is academically-oriented; often they have little understanding of what that means. 
 
I do not agree with the suggestion that the bar be lowered so that students with low-intermediate skills be allowed in credit classes (at least at my college). Historically, other faculty have little experience handling language issues and are very unhappy when students cannot read, write and converse at an appropriate level of English. They end up feeling helpless. Students may pass classes; however, I suspect that instructors do not want to deal with the challenges and so turn a blind eye and let them through. Recently, there has been a problem in the nursing department with non-native English speaking students not passing board exams because they enter the college from other programs and circumvent ESL with us. They have trouble reading and answering questions on the exam. This is a significant problem because nursing programs are judged in terms of the success of their students on these standardized exams. 
 
I think the measure of success should be based on a realistic assessment of student goals combined with a real-life discussion of the possibilities and limitations. Ideally, students would have incremental goals so that success could build. If the goals for students with low literacy levels are not carefully discussed and planned, then they will likely encounter more failure than success because their expectaions will be unrealistic. The more we have the opportunity to talk to students, the more likely it is that they can develop short-term goals that are within their reach. Unfortunately, we have no control over the myriad of complications that accrue in their every day lives. 
 
Apologies for the length.
 
Kevin Hinkle, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of ESL/Adjunct Coordinator
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From crandall at umbc.edu  Thu Feb  7 08:45:09 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:45:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Assessment 1149] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <007e01c86927$0ca72220$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
References: <C3CE4BCC.8F31%usha_narayanan@fuhsd.org><52294.130.85.83.224.1202268183.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><001e01c868c8$49636de0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
	<49507.130.85.83.224.1202328350.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
	<007e01c86927$0ca72220$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
Message-ID: <50639.138.88.30.77.1202391909.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>

Ted,

Did you use an oral proficiency interview at the Defense Language
Institute?  If so, how log did it take to administer to each student?  I
think time is a real barrier to most adult ESL/ESOL programs.  Thus, they
use tests that can be administered to students as a group and easily
evaluated.

For some college programs for international students, a whole range of
tests are used for placement, including a writing sample, a reading test,
and an oral interview.  Clearly that's more possible with smaller numbers
of students who are also paying for the classes.

What do you think is needed in the way of tests?  In Passing the Torch,
Forrest and I point to assessment as a major issue facing all the colleges
we studied.  We recommend the development of a test of all four skills
that, if possible, could be administered and scored in a reasonable amount
of time.

Have you tried the BEST Plus test?  What has been your experience with
that test?

I agree that for placement at literacy levels, a simple test developed by
a program might be sufficient.

I also think that for progress through the levels, student achievement in
the previous class, as judged by the instructor ("professional wisdom"),
is still the best determiner of whether a student is ready to go to the
next level.

Jodi


> Jodi,
>
> Same here! As long as the BEST Test is used to show gains, I'm afraid that
> there isn't much chance that REAL gains could be charted and compared. It
> is used too often to measure progress and is not as good for that purpose
> as one would hope. Really valid proficiency tests are the only way to
> prove the point. Achievement tests don't tell much in terms of overall
> progress. I would also guess that it would take a minimum of 120 hours of
> solid training to have a measureable level with any test that one could
> play numbers with. Other factors including attendance, etc. would have to
> be factored in. Adults have families and jobs in the way of total
> dedication to attendance. Also, one would have to have a test in which
> human judgment would play a small role. The BEST is fine for its original
> purpose, which was to place persons with others at their same levels of
> communication. Good measurement is the only way to prove anything. I often
> rely on plain old gut instincts to figure how things are really going. I
> know that's not very scientific.
>
> Cheers,  Ted
> www.tedklein-ESL.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:05 PM
> Subject: [Assessment 1138] Re: Observation checklist
>
>
> Hi, Ted.  Glad to make contact again.
>
> I definitely agree that smaller classes are more likely to bring learner
> gains, especially in language, since students will have more opportunity
> to speak when there are fewer students.  I didn't know about the DLI
> policy, but it is a good one.  The problem with adult ESL classes, I fear,
> is that there is such limited money available that programs would find it
> difficult to keep class size to these numbers.
>
> Has anyone tried to reduce class size and chart the learning gains?  If
> so, please share with us all.  It might be that this would be a good
> investment.  If students in smaller classes make faster gains, then there
> would be more spaces available as these students transitioned to other
> classes or the workforce.
>
> Jodi
>
> Hi Jodi,
>>
>> Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times in the
>> past,
>> I think at least once when you visited the Defense Language Institute
>> English Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I
>> mention
>> DLI is that it represents a language program with little leeway to fail.
>> I
>> spent 20 years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is to train
>> allied and friendly military personnel worldwide in general and
>> specialized English. Most students start ESL in their home countries
>> with
>> DLIELC personnel advising, and in some cases teaching, in these overseas
>> military language centers. It may still be the largest language program
>> in
>> the world. Students after reaching certain levels go to Lackland Air
>> Force
>> Base in San Antonio, complete their general English, usually go through
>> specialized terminology and then on to whatever training their country
>> needs with the U.S. military. Students have run the full gamut from
>> recruits and NCO's up to generals and admirals. This is a very tightly
>> organized "well-packaged" language program with predictable training
>> times
>> and results.
>>
>> Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb while I was at
>> at DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum. This was
>> rarely broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters' bean
>> counter would calculate that if a mere two or three students could be
>> added to a class, voila, look at the money we would save! This money
>> came
>> both from foreign governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue and then
>> try
>> it, I believe several times over the years. However, in an organization
>> that has a very effective testing system; both achievement and
>> proficiency, it was soon noticed that the scores were going down, just
>> enough so that they could prove that no money was being saved on teacher
>> salaries and other expenses. I spent three years with the Royal Thai
>> Navy
>> for DLI as language training advisor and remember having to twist arms
>> with the RTN Navy Education Department with the same problem. They
>> wanted
>> 15 in a class.
>>
>> Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during my last
>> eight years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes have
>> consistently been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an
>> organization is stuck with a low budget, make the hours of training per
>> week lower, but keep the class sizes within 10 or so students. Fewer
>> hours
>> of really effective training are certainly better than large classes
>> where
>> the student attention level and collegiality are reduced. I remember
>> Mary
>> Finocchiaro saying years ago that she didn't care how many students were
>> in her classroom, she would teach them! Unfortunately, most of us just
>> aren't THAT dynamic.
>>
>> Cheers,  Ted
>> www.tedklein-ESL.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM
>> Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist
>>
>>
>> Usha,
>>
>> I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
>> experience that with more than 10 students, learning decreases?  If so,
>> how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be
>> interested
>> in ways to decrease class size.
>>
>> It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
>> constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more
>> important
>> to involve them in activities in which all get to participate, which
>> means
>> less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small classes
>> need that.
>>
>> What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?
>>
>> You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop out of
>> classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any of you
>> keep
>> records of your students that would identify those who do return?  Do
>> you
>> have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning English
>> outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know of any
>> research about adult English Language Learners in this area, but there
>> is
>> an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State
>> University
>> following adult literacy level students for several years.  They have
>> identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside of the
>> classroom and also that some of these learners come back to classes
>> after
>> being out of them for some time.
>>
>> Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of you been
>> able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of these
>> services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have been most
>> effective? If you teach in a community college, have your students had
>> access to the various support services provided to other students?
>>
>> Several of you have talked about the differences in progress made by
>> students with more advanced education and those who are at literacy
>> level.
>>  Because literacy level students take longer in making progress, most
>> programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and
>> literate
>> beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and literacy
>> will
>> need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to talk about
>> what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about
>> persistence
>> of literacy level students and their learning gains.
>>
>> Students with advanced education in their own language may be able to
>> have
>> a condensed program since they are already experienced as students and
>> often have high motivation to get through English so that they can take
>> courses related to their previous or future career.  City College of San
>> Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters worth of
>> work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer something along
>> these lines?
>>
>> Jodi
>>
>>
>>> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked the tool
>>> that
>>> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope that it
>>> is
>>> not
>>> something that has already been asked and answered.
>>>
>>> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of our ESL
>>> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal constraints
>>> and
>>> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a positive
>>> to
>>> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we expect to see
>>> more
>>> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the numbers.
>>>
>>> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy programs
>>> because of many socio-economic factors.
>>>
>>> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing market (in
>>> past
>>> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to stay in
>>> one
>>> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen more in
>>> people
>>> who do not have high levels of education from their native country).
>>>
>>> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from their
>>> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some kind of
>>> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs, go in and
>>> out
>>> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of various
>>> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and have no time
>>> to
>>> practice.
>>>
>>> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in educational
>>> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
>>> availability
>>> of  community resources.
>>>
>>> Usha Narayanan
>>> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
>>> California
>>> 408-522-2737
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Marie,
>>>>
>>>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and out of the
>>>> U.S.A.
>>>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc. in ESL.
>>>> It
>>>> is
>>>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that I'm
>>>> back
>>>> in the
>>>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the Defense
>>>> Language
>>>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching immigrants part
>>>> time for
>>>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin
>>>> Community
>>>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what language
>>>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to work at a
>>>> higher
>>>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I
>>>> apply
>>>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy
>>>> traps."
>>>> I
>>>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
>>>> interested and
>>>> it is published on my website at
>>>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel absolutely free
>>>> to use
>>>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank you very
>>>> much for
>>>> the input. Questions are welcome.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,   Ted
>>>>
>>>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>>>>   Independent Consultant in Language
>>>>          and Intercultural Training
>>>>               14456 Agarita Road
>>>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>>>>              Phone:512-266-1801
>>>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
>>>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>
>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi  Ted,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it
>>>>> yourself?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try
>>>>> to
>>>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do others
>>>>> you
>>>>> work with?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the
>>>>> students
>>>>> advance?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
>>>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>>>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marie,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ted
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
>>>>>>  NO
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    supportive personality?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    other and the instructor?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     target language  proficiency?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     than push them?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     exaggerated speech?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     results?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---- Original Message -----
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello  everyone,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on  regarding
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??  I was
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
>>>>>>> intensity
>>>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
>>>>>>> opportunities
>>>>>>> for  professional development.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>>>>>>> student
>>>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>>>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>>> Assessment mailing list
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>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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>>>> Email delivered to usha_narayanan at fuhsd.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>> Professor, Education Department
>> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
>> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in
>> ESOL/Bilingual
>> Education
>> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
>> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
>> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
>> email: crandall at umbc.edu
>> www.umbc.edu/llc/
>> www.umbc.edu/esol/
>> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>
>
>
> --
> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Professor, Education Department
> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
> Education
> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
> email: crandall at umbc.edu
> www.umbc.edu/llc/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>
>
>
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> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
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> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>


-- 
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html





From taklein at austin.rr.com  Thu Feb  7 08:58:24 2008
From: taklein at austin.rr.com (Ted Klein)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 07:58:24 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1150] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
	Comments?!
References: <1dd5701e0802051006i6f9e4473wcc9aa9810ca65f7c@mail.gmail.com>	<OF56C5D320.83B8357C-ON072573E6.0065B469-072573E6.0065D41F@yc.edu>	<000d01c86854$6e1dfde0$4a59f9a0$@net>	<1dd5701e0802060401r7fe15e6apb5e2af1d1564f98a@mail.gmail.com>	<8CA36DB4BFA2167-E5C-2BC8@WEBMAIL-MA05.sysops.aol.com><49516.130.85.83.224.1202329625.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
	<8CA372E1335CD5E-1370-2018@webmail-da11.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <003701c86991$82141df0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>

Jodi and Andres,

There is one very real problem with taking the GED in Spanish that I'm aware of. If you have two immigrants, Roberto and Ju?n, and they both apply for the same job and if Ju?n took the GED in Spanish and Roberto took it in English, guess who gets the job?
Yes, life isn't fair, but most U.S. businesses prefer persons who have gone "all the way" with English. My students and I have discussed this and they have seen or know of this situation with their friends and family members. That is why many AE students remain longer in our ESL classes. Of course in many border towns, this may not be as important since many of the employers are Hispanic or are native speakers of English who are functional in Spanish. However, many customers of the businesses will need to use English. 

In my current class in Austin, Texas with eleven students, five different languages are spoken. Should we offer the GED in Arabic, Chinese, Korean, and Juba as well as Spanish?


Ted
www.tedklein-ESL.com 



----- Original Message ----- 
  From: andresmuro at aol.com 
  To: crandall at umbc.edu ; assessment at nifl.gov 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 5:21 PM
  Subject: [Assessment 1146] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!


  Jodi:

  The credit ESL program in the college is very academic. However it provides students with financial aid and other goodies. We feel that the students will not do well in a credit academic ESL program until they have a level comparable to GED in their native language. Also, a GED certificate is a way to demonstrate ability to benefit to qualify for financial aid. Those students who get into the credit ESL program without native language literacy don't do well. 

  Students can attend other ESL classes in the community while they are attending our classes. We stopped providing ESL because of limited funding to provide what we would consider meaningful ESL. Also, our Spanish GED program is fairly intensive and our students would not have enough time to attend an additional program. We have a few students who may be attending our classes and an ESL class concurrently. Those are a minority

  The truth is that we started as an ESL literacy program many years ago. There was virtually no funding for  literacy ESL unless it  had all kind of testing requirements. Also, it is very hard to train teachers to be really good at ESL. The system that encourages large number of untrained part timers prevents this from happening. 

  I know that a lot of people in these listservs claim exemplary service and illustrate  with examples of what they have done. I don't doubt that  their claims are 100% true. However,  we are in the minority. If I could get you and Heide and Elsa and Andy Nash and Leonore and Deborah Schwartz, and Anson Green and Federico and others to be my ESL teachers, I would have the best program in the world. However, the fact is that in addition to the barriers that ESL students face in their daily lives, plus the bureaucratic and assessment barriers that the system creates for teachers and students, plus the difficulty hiring and retaining highly qualified ESL staff makes it very difficult to have a successful ESL program. 

  I feel that until we get rid of WIA/NRS it will be tough to create good stuff in a systematic way. 

  Andres







  -----Original Message-----
  From: JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu>
  To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
  Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 1:27 pm
  Subject: [Assessment 1141] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!


Andres,

It is great that you provide Spanish language literacy and GED classes for
your students.  There's no question that native language literacy
contributes not just to the development of the first language, but also to
English language development when students take oral ESL classes.  There
is some research in this area by Michele Burtoff with Haitians in the U.S.
and there is a lot of research (see especially research by David Ramirez
which compares children who had 6, 3 or no years of bilingual education)
that shows that providing bilingual education not only has all the
benefits that would be expected, but students also achieve in English as
well or better than those who only had instruction in English.

We also found that Spanish GED classes had large numbers of students at
the colleges, since students who take the GED in Spanish are able to
bypass the need for extensive ESL just to get this credential.  They might
want to take ESL as well, but the desire for the GED is often for
work-related reasons.  I'm not clear on why you ask students to wait until
after they have passed the GED to take ESL classes.  Can you tell us a
little more about that?

Of course not all students who enroll in adult ESL are Spanish speakers
and there may not be enough who speak any language to provide literacy
classes for them in their own language, but programs might try to partner
with immigrant or refugee-related community-based organizations which
could reach more students and also identify someone to provide the
instruction.  Still, there will  be students who will not be able to take
literacy classes in their own languages and for them, a separate ESL
literacy class seems to be the best option.

It would be great to hear from others about their experiences both with
first language (Spanish and other languages) literacy classes, Spanish GED
classes, and literacy ESL classes.

How do you place students in your literacy classes?  Do you use a
standardized test or do you have informal ways of determining if someone
would be better served in a literacy ESL class?


Jodi

>
>  Problem is that in many ESL people are placed in ESL classes based on an
> English placement multiple choice test. A student with advanced education
> in L1 and one with little education in L1 may know very little English
> and they may both be placed in the same level. The student with advance
> education will progress much faster than the one with little education.
> The advanced L1 student will understand concepts like sentence,
> paragraph, verb, subject, direct object, adjective, composition and essay
> readily. The one with with little education will need to understand these
> concepts. It takes a while for people to master these concepts. A highly
> educated L2? learner will likely progress faster academically in a second
> language than a fluent native speaker of that? language with limited
> academic education, for the same reason. This is observed regularly in
> universities all over the US. highly educated foreign students who
> acquired English as L2 recently will do better than their Eng
>  lish speaking counterparts in academic tasks in English. Jim Cummins has
> articulated this clearly with his BICS and CALPS.
>
> In our program at El Paso Community College we have found evidence of
> this. We stopped doing literacy ESL a while back for this reason. The
> college has an academic ESL program. Instead of doing ESL literacy we
> started offering Spanish Literacy and GED many years ago since the vast
> majority of our students are Spanish speakers. Once our students acquire
> their Spanish GED they transition into the ESL program and do better than
> those students who don't have L1 academic skills. Even if takes them a
> while to acquire the L1 literacy, they will do better. Those with no L1
> literacy often stay in ESL forever and they drop out, start again in
> another program, drop out and continue the same pattern. I think that this
> happens because of the mixture of academically ready students and those
> that are not ready, since most ESL programs focus on traditional
> academics. For L1 low literacy students to be able to progress in L2 there
> has to be a program specifically designed for them that teache
>  s skills in L2 in new and innovative ways without interference from
> academically skilled L1 students. Right now we don't have a system that
> systematically does this, and the WIA/NRS system prevents this form
> happening.
>
> Hope that this makes sense,
>
> Andres
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jackie Coelho <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>
> To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
> Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 5:01 am
> Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
> Comments?!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Forrest,
>
>
> ?? I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy
> background and those without. These two groups have such different needs.
> Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs
> of either group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate
> the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor
> does not keep up with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they
> often become frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the
> instructor keeps up with those students, the others are unable to keep up
> and they get frustrated.
>
>
>
> ? I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of
> how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.
>
>
> Jackie
>
> ?
>
>
> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in
> student performance:
>
>
> ?
>
>
> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly
> educated students do better in terms of ?persistence, learning gains, and
> transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably
> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education
> makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of
> their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That
> is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education
> makes? Or any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior
> education that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are
> completely illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high
> school graduates, college graduates, etc. -- ?or is level of prior
> education pretty much of a continuum?
>
>
>
> ?
>
>
> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly
> educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably students
> with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower
> level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by
> definition) ?in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes
> math. Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at
> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be
> desirable to place less highly educated students in separate classes from
> those with more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for
> them accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or
> the Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these
> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of
> "bi-lingual education" that should be tried?
>
>
>
> ?
>
>
> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the
> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of
> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large
> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means),
> ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very little education
> in their native countries and too little money to serve them. ?So anyone
> who has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a
> lot by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.
>
>
>
> ?
>
>
> Forrest Chisman
>
>
> Vice President
>
>
> CAAL
>
>
> ?
>
>
> ??
>
>
> ?
>
>
>
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
> Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
> To: The Assessment Discussion List
> Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
> Comments?!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ?
>
>
>
> Hi Jackie,
>
> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my
> former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual education
> in the K-12 school system.
>
>
> Tina
>
> Tina Luffman
> Coordinator, Developmental Education
> Verde Valley Campus
> 928-634-6544
> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>
>
> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>
>
> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please respond to
> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To
>
>
>
>
>
> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> cc
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Subject
>
>
>
>
>
> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or ? ? ?
> ?Comments?!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Tina,
>
> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in
> favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in
>
> the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation
> in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second
> or third language.
>
> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not
> written.
>
>
> Jackie
>
>
> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:
>
>> Hi list members,
>>
>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to that
>> of
>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country
>> they
>
>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather quickly
>> and
>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their country
>> or
>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much
>
>> advancement.
>>
>> This experience relates well to research done among Native American
>> tribes
>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
>> literacy
>
>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who
>> tried
>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their own
>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The
>
>> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much
>> easier
>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this is
>> something deserving more research.
>
>>
>> Tina
>> Tina Luffman
>> Coordinator, Developmental Education
>> Verde Valley Campus
>> 928-634-6544
>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>
>>
>> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>>
>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>
>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>
>> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>
>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
>> Comments?!
>>
>>
>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
>
>> Warning: (not named).
>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more
>> information.
>>
>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three
>> years)
>
>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
>> particularly if
>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at
>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I
>> would
>
>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a
>> student
>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because
>> he/she
>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try
>> to
>
>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
>> concept
>> in a second language.
>>
>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play
>> a
>
>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned
>> from
>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
>> classes).
>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.
>> It's
>
>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
>> teachers.
>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging
>> me
>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're
>
>> making some progress.
>>
>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>
>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
>
>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>
>>
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I'm so surprised! ?No one has anything to comment on regarding your
>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? ?I was very
>
>> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that
>> Dr.
>> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research: ?a lack of intensity
>> of
>> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities
>> for
>
>> professional development.
>>
>> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>> student
>> from advancing? ?What do you try to do about that?
>>
>
>> Please post your questions and comments now.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Marie Cora
>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>
>>
>
>> Marie Cora
>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>
>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>>
>>
>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
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-- 
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html



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From Noa.Sadan at montgomerycollege.edu  Thu Feb  7 12:16:21 2008
From: Noa.Sadan at montgomerycollege.edu (Sadan, Noa)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 12:16:21 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1151] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
	Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <49509.130.85.83.224.1202328618.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <A1FACE81B7C82147B9CE6822E2D4A701022A24ED@MCMAIL2.mcnte.mc.cc.md.us>

Years ago, the Montgomery County Refugee Training Program (Montgomery
College, Silver Spring, MD)had highly educated people with no English,
in class with literacy level students. It was certainly difficult
meeting the needs of all students, but in this intensive 20-hours/week
program, a tremendous mutual respect was fostered between the groups.
Typically, the highly educated students raced ahead with reading and
writing, while the literacy students sped ahead with oral language. The
Somali mother of nine would say to the Russian engineer, "I wish I could
read and write like you!", while the Russian woman would reply, "I wish
I could speak like you."

All this ended with a slightly different solution. The Refugee Center,
then under the direction of Donna Kinerney, divided that school day into
separate Listening,Reading and "Homeroom" classes. Homerooom took in all
skills, plus the introduction to the American workplace. This model was
in place when we began to get World English speakers who were not
literate. It provided a solution in which they could study in a
literacy-level reading/writing class, and interact in a higher level
Listening and Homeroom class. 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

Jackie and Forrest,

I think most large programs separate literacy level students from others
who are at a beginning level.  I know that back in the 1980s when there
were large refugee ESL programs, several community colleges created
parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels and even into intermediate
levels, with one set of classes for students with limited literacy or
prior schooling and another for more educated students.  The reason was
that the students with less education made slower progress.  Some of
this is undoubtedly due to the way in which we teach English (requiring
literacy), but it is also because students need to become accustomed to
attending classes, learning to hold and use a pen or pencil, and a wide
range of basic skills that come with being a student in a class.

Those of you who have separate classes for those who need literacy:
Can
you tell us what kind of classes or program you provide?

Those who teach both literacy and more educated learners in the same
class:  Can you let us know how you manage?  What are some ways in which
you accommodate both sets of needs?

Jodi
> Forrest,
>    I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy 
> background and those without. These two groups have such different 
> needs. Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to 
> meet the needs of either group well and I find that often the stronger

> students dominate the class, and their drive push the teacher forward.

> If the instructor does not keep up with the students who are learning 
> at a faster rate, they often become frustrated and leave or mentally 
> check out. However, if the instructor keeps up with those students, 
> the others are unable to keep up and they get frustrated.
>   I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless

> of how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.
> Jackie
>
>
> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:
>>
>>  To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor 
>> in student performance:
>>
>>
>>
>> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more 
>> highly educated students do better in terms of  persistence, learning

>> gains, and transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect 
>> this.
>> Regrettably
>> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior 
>> education makes, because too few programs track the level of prior 
>> education of their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of

>> you do this? That is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference 
>> level of prior education makes?
>> Or
>> any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior education

>> that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are completely 
>> illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high school 
>> graduates, college graduates, etc. --  or is level of prior education

>> pretty much of a continuum?
>>
>>
>>
>> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between 
>> highly educated students and those with less prior education? 
>> Presumably students with very low levels of education are more likely

>> end up in the lower level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning 
>> levels) why are (almost by
>> definition)  in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes

>> math.
>> Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at 
>> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it

>> be desirable to place less highly educated students in separate 
>> classes from those with more education and adjust the 
>> curriculum/support systems for them accordingly? Some programs have 
>> tried "native language literacy" or the Spanish GED. What has been 
>> the experience of any of you with these approaches? Any other ideas? 
>> IS there an adult ESL equivalent of "bi-lingual education" that 
>> should be tried?
>>
>>
>>
>> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the

>> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of 
>> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large

>> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that 
>> means), ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very 
>> little education in their native countries and too little money to 
>> serve them.  So anyone who has any ideas about how to bridge this 
>> "education gap" could help us a lot by posting ideas about how to 
>> close it on this discussion list.
>>
>>
>>
>> Forrest Chisman
>>
>> Vice President
>>
>> CAAL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
>> *On
>> Behalf Of *Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
>> *To:* The Assessment Discussion List
>> *Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No 
>> Questions or Comments?!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Jackie,
>>
>> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what 
>> my former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual 
>> education in the K-12 school system.
>>
>> Tina
>>
>> Tina Luffman
>> Coordinator, Developmental Education
>> Verde Valley Campus
>> 928-634-6544
>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>
>>   *"Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>* Sent by: 
>> assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>
>> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM
>>
>> Please respond to
>> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>
>> To
>>
>> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>
>> cc
>>
>> Subject
>>
>> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or  
>> Comments?!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Tina,
>>
>> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement 
>> in favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented

>> in the best way. For many years people have known that a good 
>> foundation in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning

>> in a second or third language.
>>
>> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not 
>> written.
>>
>> Jackie
>>
>>
>> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:
>> > Hi list members,
>> >
>> > My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to
>> that
>> of
>> > Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the 
>> > country
>> they
>> > came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather
>> quickly
>> and
>> > get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their
>> country
>> or
>> > lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much 
>> > advancement.
>> >
>> > This experience relates well to research done among Native American
>> tribes
>> > teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
>> literacy
>> > skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those 
>> > who
>> tried
>> > to learn literacy skills in English without that background in 
>> > their
>> own
>> > tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. 
>> > The concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish 
>> > were much
>> easier
>> > to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps 
>> > this
>> is
>> > something deserving more research.
>> >
>> > Tina
>> > Tina Luffman
>> > Coordinator, Developmental Education Verde Valley Campus
>> > 928-634-6544
>> > tina_luffman at yc.edu
>> >
>> > -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>> >
>> > To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>> > From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org> Sent by: 
>> > assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>> > Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
>> > Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or

>> > Comments?!
>> >
>> >
>> > Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
>> > Warning: (not named).
>> > Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for
>> more
>> > information.
>> >
>> > In our small adult education program, my experience (just about 
>> > three
>> years)
>> > is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
>> particularly if
>> > they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, 
>> > if
>> at
>> > all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first 
>> > language. I
>> would
>> > say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a
>> student
>> > who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed 
>> > because
>> he/she
>> > is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is
>> try
>> to
>> > get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
>> concept
>> > in a second language.
>> >
>> > This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't
>> play
>> a
>> > part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers 
>> > (transitioned
>> from
>> > another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
>> classes).
>> > My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow
advancement.
>> It's
>> > hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
>> teachers.
>> > The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is
>> encouraging
>> me
>> > to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think
>> we're
>> > making some progress.
>> >
>> > Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> >
>> > From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
>> > Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
>> > To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>> > Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>> >
>> >
>> > Hello everyone,
>> >
>> > I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your

>> > program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was 
>> > very curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of 
>> > issues
>> that
>> Dr.
>> > Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of 
>> > intensity
>> of
>> > instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few 
>> > opportunities
>> for
>> > professional development.
>> >
>> > What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>> student
>> > from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
>> >
>> > Please post your questions and comments now.
>> >
>> > Thanks!
>> >
>> > Marie Cora
>> > Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>> >
>> >
>> > Marie Cora
>> > marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>> > <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>> > NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator 
>> > <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> >
>> >
>> > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>> intended
>> > solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>> addressed.
>> > If you have received this email in error please notify the system
>> manager.
>> > This message contains confidential information and is intended only
>> for
>> the
>> > individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not

>> > disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
>> > -------------------------------
>> > National Institute for Literacy
>> > Assessment mailing list
>> > Assessment at nifl.gov
>> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
>> > <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> > Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>> >
>> >
>> > -------------------------------
>> > National Institute for Literacy
>> > Assessment mailing list
>> > Assessment at nifl.gov
>> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
>> > <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> > Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
>> <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu 
>> <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>>
>>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>


--
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture Coordinator,
Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC) 1000 Hilltop Circle,
Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html



-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
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Email delivered to noa.sadan at montgomerycollege.edu


From crandall at umbc.edu  Thu Feb  7 12:59:14 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (Jodi Crandall)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 12:59:14 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1152] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
	Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <A1FACE81B7C82147B9CE6822E2D4A701022A24ED@MCMAIL2.mcnte.mc.cc.md.us>
References: <A1FACE81B7C82147B9CE6822E2D4A701022A24ED@MCMAIL2.mcnte.mc.cc.md.us>
Message-ID: <E2479819-EE54-483B-9EEE-7C2FD6CB7F41@umbc.edu>

Noa,

Thanks for sharing this.  How wonderful to have had 20 hours per week  
for these students.  Besides mutual respect (which is very  
important), were there ways in which students could use their  
complementary skills to help each other.  If you could describe some  
of the activities that you or others used that were helpful, that  
would be great.

If others of you could share your experiences with mixed classes, and  
how you coped with them, I think a lot of us would be interested.

The change to separate Listening, Reading and "Homeroom" classes is  
also a very interesting way of meeting the needs of this diverse  
population.  I know that many community colleges separate their  
instruction in adult ESL to oral language skills (Listening/Speaking)  
and written language (Reading/Writing) skills.  Are there others out  
there who could share your experiences in this regard?

The presence of World English speakers and Generation 1.5 speakers in  
adult ESL has further complicated the situation.  I'd be interested  
in knowing how  others  have dealt with such diverse students in  
adult ESL/ESOL.

Jodi



n Feb 7, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Sadan, Noa wrote:

> Years ago, the Montgomery County Refugee Training Program (Montgomery
> College, Silver Spring, MD)had highly educated people with no English,
> in class with literacy level students. It was certainly difficult
> meeting the needs of all students, but in this intensive 20-hours/week
> program, a tremendous mutual respect was fostered between the groups.
> Typically, the highly educated students raced ahead with reading and
> writing, while the literacy students sped ahead with oral language.  
> The
> Somali mother of nine would say to the Russian engineer, "I wish I  
> could
> read and write like you!", while the Russian woman would reply, "I  
> wish
> I could speak like you."
>
> All this ended with a slightly different solution. The Refugee Center,
> then under the direction of Donna Kinerney, divided that school day  
> into
> separate Listening,Reading and "Homeroom" classes. Homerooom took  
> in all
> skills, plus the introduction to the American workplace. This model  
> was
> in place when we began to get World English speakers who were not
> literate. It provided a solution in which they could study in a
> literacy-level reading/writing class, and interact in a higher level
> Listening and Homeroom class.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
> On Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM
> To: The Assessment Discussion List
> Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No  
> Questions or
> Comments?!
>
> Jackie and Forrest,
>
> I think most large programs separate literacy level students from  
> others
> who are at a beginning level.  I know that back in the 1980s when  
> there
> were large refugee ESL programs, several community colleges created
> parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels and even into  
> intermediate
> levels, with one set of classes for students with limited literacy or
> prior schooling and another for more educated students.  The reason  
> was
> that the students with less education made slower progress.  Some of
> this is undoubtedly due to the way in which we teach English  
> (requiring
> literacy), but it is also because students need to become  
> accustomed to
> attending classes, learning to hold and use a pen or pencil, and a  
> wide
> range of basic skills that come with being a student in a class.
>
> Those of you who have separate classes for those who need literacy:
> Can
> you tell us what kind of classes or program you provide?
>
> Those who teach both literacy and more educated learners in the same
> class:  Can you let us know how you manage?  What are some ways in  
> which
> you accommodate both sets of needs?
>
> Jodi
>> Forrest,
>>    I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy
>> background and those without. These two groups have such different
>> needs. Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to
>> meet the needs of either group well and I find that often the  
>> stronger
>
>> students dominate the class, and their drive push the teacher  
>> forward.
>
>> If the instructor does not keep up with the students who are learning
>> at a faster rate, they often become frustrated and leave or mentally
>> check out. However, if the instructor keeps up with those students,
>> the others are unable to keep up and they get frustrated.
>>   I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And  
>> regardless
>
>> of how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.
>> Jackie
>>
>>
>> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>  To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor
>>> in student performance:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more
>>> highly educated students do better in terms of  persistence,  
>>> learning
>
>>> gains, and transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect
>>> this.
>>> Regrettably
>>> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior
>>> education makes, because too few programs track the level of prior
>>> education of their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO  
>>> any of
>
>>> you do this? That is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference
>>> level of prior education makes?
>>> Or
>>> any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior  
>>> education
>
>>> that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are completely
>>> illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high school
>>> graduates, college graduates, etc. --  or is level of prior  
>>> education
>
>>> pretty much of a continuum?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between
>>> highly educated students and those with less prior education?
>>> Presumably students with very low levels of education are more  
>>> likely
>
>>> end up in the lower level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning
>>> levels) why are (almost by
>>> definition)  in the business of teaching basic literacy and  
>>> sometimes
>
>>> math.
>>> Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at
>>> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels,  
>>> would it
>
>>> be desirable to place less highly educated students in separate
>>> classes from those with more education and adjust the
>>> curriculum/support systems for them accordingly? Some programs have
>>> tried "native language literacy" or the Spanish GED. What has been
>>> the experience of any of you with these approaches? Any other ideas?
>>> IS there an adult ESL equivalent of "bi-lingual education" that
>>> should be tried?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because  
>>> the
>
>>> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of
>>> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates  
>>> large
>
>>> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that
>>> means), ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very
>>> little education in their native countries and too little money to
>>> serve them.  So anyone who has any ideas about how to bridge this
>>> "education gap" could help us a lot by posting ideas about how to
>>> close it on this discussion list.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Forrest Chisman
>>>
>>> Vice President
>>>
>>> CAAL
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
>>> *On
>>> Behalf Of *Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
>>> *To:* The Assessment Discussion List
>>> *Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No
>>> Questions or Comments?!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Jackie,
>>>
>>> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what
>>> my former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual
>>> education in the K-12 school system.
>>>
>>> Tina
>>>
>>> Tina Luffman
>>> Coordinator, Developmental Education
>>> Verde Valley Campus
>>> 928-634-6544
>>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>>
>>>   *"Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>* Sent by:
>>> assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>
>>> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM
>>>
>>> Please respond to
>>> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>>
>>> To
>>>
>>> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>>
>>> cc
>>>
>>> Subject
>>>
>>> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
>>> Comments?!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Tina,
>>>
>>> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement
>>> in favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not  
>>> implemented
>
>>> in the best way. For many years people have known that a good
>>> foundation in literacy in the first language will facilitate  
>>> learning
>
>>> in a second or third language.
>>>
>>> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not
>>> written.
>>>
>>> Jackie
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:
>>>> Hi list members,
>>>>
>>>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to
>>> that
>>> of
>>>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the
>>>> country
>>> they
>>>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather
>>> quickly
>>> and
>>>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their
>>> country
>>> or
>>>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much
>>>> advancement.
>>>>
>>>> This experience relates well to research done among Native American
>>> tribes
>>>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
>>> literacy
>>>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those
>>>> who
>>> tried
>>>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in
>>>> their
>>> own
>>>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish.
>>>> The concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish
>>>> were much
>>> easier
>>>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps
>>>> this
>>> is
>>>> something deserving more research.
>>>>
>>>> Tina
>>>> Tina Luffman
>>>> Coordinator, Developmental Education Verde Valley Campus
>>>> 928-634-6544
>>>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>>>
>>>> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>>>>
>>>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org> Sent by:
>>>> assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
>
>>>> Comments?!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
>>>> Warning: (not named).
>>>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for
>>> more
>>>> information.
>>>>
>>>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about
>>>> three
>>> years)
>>>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
>>> particularly if
>>>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest,
>>>> if
>>> at
>>>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first
>>>> language. I
>>> would
>>>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a
>>> student
>>>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed
>>>> because
>>> he/she
>>>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is
>>> try
>>> to
>>>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
>>> concept
>>>> in a second language.
>>>>
>>>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't
>>> play
>>> a
>>>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers
>>>> (transitioned
>>> from
>>>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
>>> classes).
>>>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow
> advancement.
>>> It's
>>>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
>>> teachers.
>>>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is
>>> encouraging
>>> me
>>>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think
>>> we're
>>>> making some progress.
>>>>
>>>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>
>>>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
>>>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your
>
>>>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was
>>>> very curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of
>>>> issues
>>> that
>>> Dr.
>>>> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
>>>> intensity
>>> of
>>>> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
>>>> opportunities
>>> for
>>>> professional development.
>>>>
>>>> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>>> student
>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
>>>>
>>>> Please post your questions and comments now.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Marie Cora
>>>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marie Cora
>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>> <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>>> intended
>>>> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>>> addressed.
>>>> If you have received this email in error please notify the system
>>> manager.
>>>> This message contains confidential information and is intended only
>>> for
>>> the
>>>> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
>
>>>> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>> <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>> <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>> Assessment mailing list
>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>> <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>> <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>> Assessment mailing list
>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>
>
>
> --
> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Professor, Education Department
> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture Coordinator,
> Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC) 1000 Hilltop Circle,
> Baltimore, MD 21250
> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
> email: crandall at umbc.edu
> www.umbc.edu/llc/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to noa.sadan at montgomerycollege.edu
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>


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From andresmuro at aol.com  Thu Feb  7 13:02:04 2008
From: andresmuro at aol.com (andresmuro at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 13:02:04 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1153] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
 Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <003701c86991$82141df0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
References: <1dd5701e0802051006i6f9e4473wcc9aa9810ca65f7c@mail.gmail.com>	<OF56C5D320.83B8357C-ON072573E6.0065B469-072573E6.0065D41F@yc.edu>	<000d01c86854$6e1dfde0$4a59f9a0$@net>	<1dd5701e0802060401r7fe15e6apb5e2af1d1564f98a@mail.gmail.com>	<8CA36DB4BFA2167-E5C-2BC8@WEBMAIL-MA05.sysops.aol.com><49516.130.85.83.224.1202329625.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>	<8CA372E1335CD5E-1370-2018@webmail-da11.sysops.aol.com>
	<003701c86991$82141df0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
Message-ID: <8CA37CAAE28180F-147C-1241@mblk-d23.sysops.aol.com>


 Ted:

How would the employer know the language that Julian took the GED in?
In most states the certificate does not tell you the Language. Texas is one of the few states that tells you the language. However, it is so hard to find that most people wouldn't even know. I have a hard time finding the language reference even though I have seen millions of certificates. Fact is most employers don't even know that people can take the GED in anything other than English, don't ask and do not scrutinize certificates to figure out scores, language, etc. A few might, but the majority don't. For low literacy Spanish speakers it may take them a couple of years to be ready to take the GED in Spanish. It make take them 2 more years to be ready for the English GED. Would you rather hold them two more years. They can take the GED in Spanish and continue to study English. Once they have sufficient English, they can decide if they want to take it in English or to move on to other things.

Andres


 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Klein <taklein at austin.rr.com>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 6:58 am
Subject: [Assessment 1150] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!
















Jodi and Andres,


?


There is one very real problem with taking the GED in Spanish that I'm 
aware of. If you have two immigrants, Roberto and Ju?n, and they both apply for 
the same job and if Ju?n took the GED in Spanish and Roberto took it in English, 
guess who gets the job?


Yes, life isn't fair, but most U.S. businesses prefer persons who have gone 
"all the way" with English. My students and I have discussed this and they have 
seen or know of this situation with their friends and family members. That is 
why many AE students remain longer in our ESL classes. Of course in many border 
towns, this may not be as important since many of the employers are Hispanic or 
are native speakers of English who are functional in Spanish. However, many 
customers of the businesses will need to use English. 


?


In my current class in Austin, Texas?with eleven students,?five 
different languages are spoken. Should we offer the GED in Arabic, Chinese, 
Korean, and Juba as well as Spanish?


?


?


Ted


www.tedklein-ESL.com 


?


?


?


----- Original Message ----- 



  
From: 
  andresmuro at aol.com 

  
To: crandall at umbc.edu ; assessment at nifl.gov 

  
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 5:21 
  PM

  
Subject: [Assessment 1146] Re: {Dangerous 
  Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!

  



  
Jodi:

The credit ESL 
  program in the college is very academic. However it provides students with 
  financial aid and other goodies. We feel that the students will not do well in 
  a credit academic ESL program until they have a level comparable to GED in 
  their native language. Also, a GED certificate is a way to demonstrate ability 
  to benefit to qualify for financial aid. Those students who get into the 
  credit ESL program without native language literacy don't do well. 
  

Students can attend other ESL classes in the community while they are 
  attending our classes. We stopped providing ESL because of limited funding to 
  provide what we would consider meaningful ESL. Also, our Spanish GED program 
  is fairly intensive and our students would not have enough time to attend an 
  additional program. We have a 
  few students who may be attending our classes and an ESL class concurrently. 
  Those are a minority

The truth is that we started as an ESL 
  literacy program many years ago. There was virtually no funding for? 
  literacy ESL unless it? had all kind of testing requirements. Also, it is 
  very hard to train teachers to be really good at ESL. The system that 
  encourages large number of untrained part timers prevents this from happening. 
  

I know that a lot of people in these listservs claim exemplary service 
  and illustrate? with examples of what they have done. I don't doubt 
  that? their claims are 100% true. However,? we are in the minority. 
  If I could get you and Heide and Elsa and Andy Nash and Leonore and Deborah 
  Schwartz, and Anson Green and Federico and others to be my ESL teachers, I 
  would have the best program in the world. However, the fact is that in 
  addition to the barriers that ESL students face in their daily lives, plus the 
  bureaucratic and assessment barriers that the system creates for teachers and 
  students, plus the difficulty hiring and retaining highly qualified ESL staff 
  makes it very difficult to have a successful ESL program. 

I feel that 
  until we get rid of WIA/NRS it will be tough to create good stuff in a 
  systematic way. 

Andres




  



  


-----Original Message-----
From: JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall 
  <crandall at umbc.edu>
To: The Assessment Discussion List 
  <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 1:27 pm
Subject: 
  [Assessment 1141] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or 
  Comments?!


  

Andres,



It is great that you provide Spanish language literacy and GED classes for

your students.  There's no question that native language literacy

contributes not just to the development of the first language, but also to

English language development when students take oral ESL classes.  There

is some research in this area by Michele Burtoff with Haitians in the U.S.

and there is a lot of research (see especially research by David Ramirez

which compares children who had 6, 3 or no years of bilingual education)

that shows that providing bilingual education not only has all the

benefits that would be expected, but students also achieve in English as

well or better than those who only had instruction in English.



We also found that Spanish GED classes had large numbers of students at

the colleges, since students who take the GED in Spanish are able to

bypass the need for extensive ESL just to get this credential.  They might

want to take ESL as well, but the desire for the GED is often for

work-related reasons.  I'm not clear on why you ask students to wait until

after they have passed the GED to take ESL classes.  Can you tell us a

little more about that?



Of course not all students who enroll in adult ESL are Spanish speakers

and there may not be enough who speak any language to provide literacy

classes for them in their own language, but programs might try to partner

with immigrant or refugee-related community-based organizations which

could reach more students and also identify someone to provide the

instruction.  Still, there will  be students who will not be able to take

literacy classes in their own languages and for them, a separate ESL

literacy class seems to be the best option.



It would be great to hear from others about their experiences both with

first language (Spanish and other languages) literacy classes, Spanish GED

classes, and literacy ESL classes.



How do you place students in your literacy classes?  Do you use a

standardized test or do you have informal ways of determining if someone

would be better served in a literacy ESL class?





Jodi



>

>  Problem is that in many ESL people are placed in ESL classes based on an

> English placement multiple choice test. A student with advanced education

> in L1 and one with little education in L1 may know very little English

> and they may both be placed in the same level. The student with advance

> education will progress much faster than the one with little education.

> The advanced L1 student will understand concepts like sentence,

> paragraph, verb, subject, direct object, adjective, composition and essay

> readily. The one with with little education will need to understand these

> concepts. It takes a while for people to master these concepts. A highly

> educated L2? learner will likely progress faster academically in a second

> language than a fluent native speaker of that? language with limited

> academic education, for the same reason. This is observed regularly in

> universities all over the US. highly educated foreign students who

> acquired English as L2 recently will do better than their Eng

>  lish speaking counterparts in academic tasks in English. Jim Cummins has

> articulated this clearly with his BICS and CALPS.

>

> In our program at El Paso Community College we have found evidence of

> this. We stopped doing literacy ESL a while back for this reason. The

> college has an academic ESL program. Instead of doing ESL literacy we

> started offering Spanish Literacy and GED many years ago since the vast

> majority of our students are Spanish speakers. Once our students acquire

> their Spanish GED they transition into the ESL program and do better than

> those students who don't have L1 academic skills. Even if takes them a

> while to acquire the L1 literacy, they will do better. Those with no L1

> literacy often stay in ESL forever and they drop out, start again in

> another program, drop out and continue the same pattern. I think that this

> happens because of the mixture of academically ready students and those

> that are not ready, since most ESL programs focus on traditional

> academics. For L1 low literacy students to be able to progress in L2 there

> has to be a program specifically designed for them that teache

>  s skills in L2 in new and innovative ways without interference from

> academically skilled L1 students. Right now we don't have a system that

> systematically does this, and the WIA/NRS system prevents this form

> happening.

>

> Hope that this makes sense,

>

> Andres

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Jackie Coelho <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>

> To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>

> Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 5:01 am

> Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or

> Comments?!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Forrest,

>

>

> ?? I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy

> background and those without. These two groups have such different needs.

> Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs

> of either group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate

> the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor

> does not keep up with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they

> often become frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the

> instructor keeps up with those students, the others are unable to keep up

> and they get frustrated.

>

>

>

> ? I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of

> how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.

>

>

> Jackie

>

> ?

>

>

> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in

> student performance:

>

>

> ?

>

>

> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly

> educated students do better in terms of ?persistence, learning gains, and

> transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably

> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education

> makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of

> their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That

> is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education

> makes? Or any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior

> education that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are

> completely illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high

> school graduates, college graduates, etc. -- ?or is level of prior

> education pretty much of a continuum?

>

>

>

> ?

>

>

> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly

> educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably students

> with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower

> level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by

> definition) ?in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes

> math. Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at

> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be

> desirable to place less highly educated students in separate classes from

> those with more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for

> them accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or

> the Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these

> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of

> "bi-lingual education" that should be tried?

>

>

>

> ?

>

>

> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the

> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of

> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large

> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means),

> ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very little education

> in their native countries and too little money to serve them. ?So anyone

> who has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a

> lot by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.

>

>

>

> ?

>

>

> Forrest Chisman

>

>

> Vice President

>

>

> CAAL

>

>

> ?

>

>

> ??

>

>

> ?

>

>

>

>

> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On

> Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu

>

> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM

> To: The Assessment Discussion List

> Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or

> Comments?!

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ?

>

>

>

> Hi Jackie,

>

> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my

> former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual education

> in the K-12 school system.

>

>

> Tina

>

> Tina Luffman

> Coordinator, Developmental Education

> Verde Valley Campus

> 928-634-6544

> tina_luffman at yc.edu

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> "Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>

>

> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov

>

>

> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Please respond to

> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> To

>

>

>

>

>

> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> cc

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Subject

>

>

>

>

>

> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or ? ? ?

> ?Comments?!

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hi Tina,

>

> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in

> favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in

>

> the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation

> in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second

> or third language.

>

> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not

> written.

>

>

> Jackie

>

>

> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:

>

>> Hi list members,

>>

>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to that

>> of

>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country

>> they

>

>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather quickly

>> and

>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their country

>> or

>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much

>

>> advancement.

>>

>> This experience relates well to research done among Native American

>> tribes

>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught

>> literacy

>

>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who

>> tried

>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their own

>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The

>

>> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much

>> easier

>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this is

>> something deserving more research.

>

>>

>> Tina

>> Tina Luffman

>> Coordinator, Developmental Education

>> Verde Valley Campus

>> 928-634-6544

>> tina_luffman at yc.edu

>

>>

>> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----

>>

>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>

>

>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>

>> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov

>

>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM

>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or

>> Comments?!

>>

>>

>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed

>

>> Warning: (not named).

>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more

>> information.

>>

>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three

>> years)

>

>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,

>> particularly if

>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at

>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I

>> would

>

>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a

>> student

>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because

>> he/she

>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try

>> to

>

>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard

>> concept

>> in a second language.

>>

>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play

>> a

>

>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned

>> from

>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than

>> classes).

>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.

>> It's

>

>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL

>> teachers.

>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging

>> me

>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're

>

>> making some progress.

>>

>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?

>>

>> ________________________________

>>

>

>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora

>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM

>

>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov

>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!

>

>>

>>

>> Hello everyone,

>>

>> I'm so surprised! ?No one has anything to comment on regarding your

>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? ?I was very

>

>> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that

>> Dr.

>> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research: ?a lack of intensity

>> of

>> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities

>> for

>

>> professional development.

>>

>> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL

>> student

>> from advancing? ?What do you try to do about that?

>>

>

>> Please post your questions and comments now.

>>

>> Thanks!

>>

>> Marie Cora

>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator

>>

>>

>

>> Marie Cora

>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>

>

>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator

>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

>

>>

>>

>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and

>> intended

>> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are

>> addressed.

>> If you have received this email in error please notify the system

>> manager.

>

>> This message contains confidential information and is intended only for

>> the

>> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not

>> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

>

>> -------------------------------

>> National Institute for Literacy

>> Assessment mailing list

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>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

>

>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

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>> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu

>>

>>

>> -------------------------------

>> National Institute for Literacy

>> Assessment mailing list

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>> Assessment at nifl.gov

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>> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com

>>

>>

>>

> -------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Assessment mailing list

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>

>

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> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

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> -------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Assessment mailing list

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> ________________________________________________________________________

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>





-- 

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

Professor, Education Department

Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture

Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual

Education

University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)

1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250

ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880

email: crandall at umbc.edu

www.umbc.edu/llc/

www.umbc.edu/esol/

www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html







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From andresmuro at aol.com  Thu Feb  7 13:05:08 2008
From: andresmuro at aol.com (andresmuro at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 13:05:08 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1154] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
 Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <003701c86991$82141df0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
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-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Klein <taklein at austin.rr.com>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 6:58 am
Subject: [Assessment 1150] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!
















Jodi and Andres,


?


?


In my current class in Austin, Texas?with eleven students,?five 
different languages are spoken. Should we offer the GED in Arabic, Chinese, 
Korean, and Juba as well as Spanish?


?


?
Ted: If you had read my post you would have seen that I stated that Spanish GED is an appropriate tool for those communities with overwhelming majorities of Spanish speakers such as El Paso. For communities and programs such as your, ESL is appropriate. 

Andres


?


?


----- Original Message ----- 



  
From: 
  andresmuro at aol.com 

  
To: crandall at umbc.edu ; assessment at nifl.gov 

  
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 5:21 
  PM

  
Subject: [Assessment 1146] Re: {Dangerous 
  Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!

  



  
Jodi:

The credit ESL 
  program in the college is very academic. However it provides students with 
  financial aid and other goodies. We feel that the students will not do well in 
  a credit academic ESL program until they have a level comparable to GED in 
  their native language. Also, a GED certificate is a way to demonstrate ability 
  to benefit to qualify for financial aid. Those students who get into the 
  credit ESL program without native language literacy don't do well. 
  

Students can attend other ESL classes in the community while they are 
  attending our classes. We stopped providing ESL because of limited funding to 
  provide what we would consider meaningful ESL. Also, our Spanish GED program 
  is fairly intensive and our students would not have enough time to attend an 
  additional program. We have a 
  few students who may be attending our classes and an ESL class concurrently. 
  Those are a minority

The truth is that we started as an ESL 
  literacy program many years ago. There was virtually no funding for? 
  literacy ESL unless it? had all kind of testing requirements. Also, it is 
  very hard to train teachers to be really good at ESL. The system that 
  encourages large number of untrained part timers prevents this from happening. 
  

I know that a lot of people in these listservs claim exemplary service 
  and illustrate? with examples of what they have done. I don't doubt 
  that? their claims are 100% true. However,? we are in the minority. 
  If I could get you and Heide and Elsa and Andy Nash and Leonore and Deborah 
  Schwartz, and Anson Green and Federico and others to be my ESL teachers, I 
  would have the best program in the world. However, the fact is that in 
  addition to the barriers that ESL students face in their daily lives, plus the 
  bureaucratic and assessment barriers that the system creates for teachers and 
  students, plus the difficulty hiring and retaining highly qualified ESL staff 
  makes it very difficult to have a successful ESL program. 

I feel that 
  until we get rid of WIA/NRS it will be tough to create good stuff in a 
  systematic way. 

Andres




  



  


-----Original Message-----
From: JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall 
  <crandall at umbc.edu>
To: The Assessment Discussion List 
  <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 1:27 pm
Subject: 
  [Assessment 1141] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or 
  Comments?!


  

Andres,



It is great that you provide Spanish language literacy and GED classes for

your students.  There's no question that native language literacy

contributes not just to the development of the first language, but also to

English language development when students take oral ESL classes.  There

is some research in this area by Michele Burtoff with Haitians in the U.S.

and there is a lot of research (see especially research by David Ramirez

which compares children who had 6, 3 or no years of bilingual education)

that shows that providing bilingual education not only has all the

benefits that would be expected, but students also achieve in English as

well or better than those who only had instruction in English.



We also found that Spanish GED classes had large numbers of students at

the colleges, since students who take the GED in Spanish are able to

bypass the need for extensive ESL just to get this credential.  They might

want to take ESL as well, but the desire for the GED is often for

work-related reasons.  I'm not clear on why you ask students to wait until

after they have passed the GED to take ESL classes.  Can you tell us a

little more about that?



Of course not all students who enroll in adult ESL are Spanish speakers

and there may not be enough who speak any language to provide literacy

classes for them in their own language, but programs might try to partner

with immigrant or refugee-related community-based organizations which

could reach more students and also identify someone to provide the

instruction.  Still, there will  be students who will not be able to take

literacy classes in their own languages and for them, a separate ESL

literacy class seems to be the best option.



It would be great to hear from others about their experiences both with

first language (Spanish and other languages) literacy classes, Spanish GED

classes, and literacy ESL classes.



How do you place students in your literacy classes?  Do you use a

standardized test or do you have informal ways of determining if someone

would be better served in a literacy ESL class?





Jodi



>

>  Problem is that in many ESL people are placed in ESL classes based on an

> English placement multiple choice test. A student with advanced education

> in L1 and one with little education in L1 may know very little English

> and they may both be placed in the same level. The student with advance

> education will progress much faster than the one with little education.

> The advanced L1 student will understand concepts like sentence,

> paragraph, verb, subject, direct object, adjective, composition and essay

> readily. The one with with little education will need to understand these

> concepts. It takes a while for people to master these concepts. A highly

> educated L2? learner will likely progress faster academically in a second

> language than a fluent native speaker of that? language with limited

> academic education, for the same reason. This is observed regularly in

> universities all over the US. highly educated foreign students who

> acquired English as L2 recently will do better than their Eng

>  lish speaking counterparts in academic tasks in English. Jim Cummins has

> articulated this clearly with his BICS and CALPS.

>

> In our program at El Paso Community College we have found evidence of

> this. We stopped doing literacy ESL a while back for this reason. The

> college has an academic ESL program. Instead of doing ESL literacy we

> started offering Spanish Literacy and GED many years ago since the vast

> majority of our students are Spanish speakers. Once our students acquire

> their Spanish GED they transition into the ESL program and do better than

> those students who don't have L1 academic skills. Even if takes them a

> while to acquire the L1 literacy, they will do better. Those with no L1

> literacy often stay in ESL forever and they drop out, start again in

> another program, drop out and continue the same pattern. I think that this

> happens because of the mixture of academically ready students and those

> that are not ready, since most ESL programs focus on traditional

> academics. For L1 low literacy students to be able to progress in L2 there

> has to be a program specifically designed for them that teache

>  s skills in L2 in new and innovative ways without interference from

> academically skilled L1 students. Right now we don't have a system that

> systematically does this, and the WIA/NRS system prevents this form

> happening.

>

> Hope that this makes sense,

>

> Andres

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Jackie Coelho <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>

> To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>

> Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 5:01 am

> Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or

> Comments?!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Forrest,

>

>

> ?? I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy

> background and those without. These two groups have such different needs.

> Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs

> of either group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate

> the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor

> does not keep up with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they

> often become frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the

> instructor keeps up with those students, the others are unable to keep up

> and they get frustrated.

>

>

>

> ? I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of

> how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.

>

>

> Jackie

>

> ?

>

>

> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in

> student performance:

>

>

> ?

>

>

> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly

> educated students do better in terms of ?persistence, learning gains, and

> transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably

> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education

> makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of

> their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That

> is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education

> makes? Or any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior

> education that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are

> completely illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high

> school graduates, college graduates, etc. -- ?or is level of prior

> education pretty much of a continuum?

>

>

>

> ?

>

>

> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly

> educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably students

> with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower

> level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by

> definition) ?in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes

> math. Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at

> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be

> desirable to place less highly educated students in separate classes from

> those with more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for

> them accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or

> the Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these

> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of

> "bi-lingual education" that should be tried?

>

>

>

> ?

>

>

> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the

> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of

> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large

> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means),

> ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very little education

> in their native countries and too little money to serve them. ?So anyone

> who has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a

> lot by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.

>

>

>

> ?

>

>

> Forrest Chisman

>

>

> Vice President

>

>

> CAAL

>

>

> ?

>

>

> ??

>

>

> ?

>

>

>

>

> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On

> Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu

>

> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM

> To: The Assessment Discussion List

> Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or

> Comments?!

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ?

>

>

>

> Hi Jackie,

>

> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my

> former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual education

> in the K-12 school system.

>

>

> Tina

>

> Tina Luffman

> Coordinator, Developmental Education

> Verde Valley Campus

> 928-634-6544

> tina_luffman at yc.edu

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> "Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>

>

> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov

>

>

> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Please respond to

> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> To

>

>

>

>

>

> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> cc

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Subject

>

>

>

>

>

> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or ? ? ?

> ?Comments?!

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hi Tina,

>

> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in

> favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in

>

> the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation

> in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second

> or third language.

>

> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not

> written.

>

>

> Jackie

>

>

> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:

>

>> Hi list members,

>>

>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to that

>> of

>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country

>> they

>

>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather quickly

>> and

>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their country

>> or

>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much

>

>> advancement.

>>

>> This experience relates well to research done among Native American

>> tribes

>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught

>> literacy

>

>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who

>> tried

>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their own

>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The

>

>> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much

>> easier

>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this is

>> something deserving more research.

>

>>

>> Tina

>> Tina Luffman

>> Coordinator, Developmental Education

>> Verde Valley Campus

>> 928-634-6544

>> tina_luffman at yc.edu

>

>>

>> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----

>>

>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>

>

>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>

>> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov

>

>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM

>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or

>> Comments?!

>>

>>

>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed

>

>> Warning: (not named).

>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more

>> information.

>>

>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three

>> years)

>

>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,

>> particularly if

>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at

>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I

>> would

>

>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a

>> student

>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because

>> he/she

>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try

>> to

>

>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard

>> concept

>> in a second language.

>>

>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play

>> a

>

>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned

>> from

>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than

>> classes).

>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.

>> It's

>

>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL

>> teachers.

>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging

>> me

>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're

>

>> making some progress.

>>

>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?

>>

>> ________________________________

>>

>

>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora

>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM

>

>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov

>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!

>

>>

>>

>> Hello everyone,

>>

>> I'm so surprised! ?No one has anything to comment on regarding your

>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? ?I was very

>

>> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that

>> Dr.

>> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research: ?a lack of intensity

>> of

>> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities

>> for

>

>> professional development.

>>

>> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL

>> student

>> from advancing? ?What do you try to do about that?

>>

>

>> Please post your questions and comments now.

>>

>> Thanks!

>>

>> Marie Cora

>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator

>>

>>

>

>> Marie Cora

>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>

>

>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator

>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

>

>>

>>

>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and

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>> This message contains confidential information and is intended only for

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>> -------------------------------

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>>

>>

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-- 

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

Professor, Education Department

Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture

Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual

Education

University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)

1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250

ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880

email: crandall at umbc.edu

www.umbc.edu/llc/

www.umbc.edu/esol/

www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html







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From taklein at austin.rr.com  Thu Feb  7 12:58:11 2008
From: taklein at austin.rr.com (Ted Klein)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 11:58:11 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1155] Re: Observation checklist
References: <C3CE4BCC.8F31%usha_narayanan@fuhsd.org><52294.130.85.83.224.1202268183.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><001e01c868c8$49636de0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75><49507.130.85.83.224.1202328350.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><007e01c86927$0ca72220$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
	<50639.138.88.30.77.1202391909.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <001801c869b3$01219660$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>

Jodi,

My wife, Mary Margaret, was a certified OPI interviewer at DLI. She says that the average interview was 20 minutes. This depends on the interviewee's level. Two people interview. The higher the level, the longer the test. It's a really good test. The bad news is that there is/was something like a 40% failure rate for certification of interviewer among instructors and staff. Some of these people were pretty sharp, but doing it is an art and a science. There is no question the OPI is the state-of-the-art. Even experienced interviewers get frequent tune-ups. I believe that the OPI scoring system with the + indicating 60% of the next higher level COULD be simplified and adapted to adult education. However, if progress has to be shown as often as now, real proficiency doesn't change that fast and could cost programs $ when they submit their paperwork.  IF it were done after maybe 120 class hours, there may be significant changes.

Although I got the training, I bribe other people to do the BEST Plus on my students, including Mary Margaret! I think that it's fine for placement, but really doesn't work for "progress" for a number of reasons. Even when people are trained to use it properly, there is enormous difference, even in how the interviewers expresses themselves orally and make scores. If we have to continue using the BEST tests, another thing that I would like to see is small teams of really good and consistent interviewers that do the tests on all of the students. A weak measurement system is the Achilles Heel in Adult Education.

I would prefer the use of the American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT). If you will give me an e-mail address that is convenient, I will send you more information on it from my old workshops. It's cheaper, quicker, and quite accurate. I totally agree with you that teacher wisdom is also a good way to determine where and when the student should move on. Unfortunately, many managers don't trust the peasants! There are also several good ways to place people that don't involve their ability to read the ALCPT.

I put out an Adult Education/ESL Newsletter once in a while. I recently did an article on the OPI, which may answer more of the questions. Here it is:


Adult Education/ESL News Letter; the Federal Oral Proficiency Interview   Jan. 8, 2008    Ted Klein

For many years the Foreign Service Institute (FSI) of the United States conducted interviews of foreign language proficiency to measure the understanding and production of languages acquired by their staff. This test was also used by some other federal agencies and was adapted by some civilian language programs as a measure of their graduates. This test expressed performance using scores ranging from zero to five. For decades it was the best game in town. The problem is that both the interview techniques and scoring systems in the FSI exam were not as objective as needed for some persons, whose jobs required very specific scores that would be important to accomplishment of their missions.



Language proficiency testing needs have always depended on the terminal objectives of the students. In most cases, a well-designed comprehension test is adequate and may be used for language class placement, graduation criteria, determination of readiness for certain jobs, training, or education, etc. During my twenty years with the Defense Language Institute English Language Center, all students were tested with the English Comprehension Level (ECL) test, which was developed as an overall measure of listening and reading skills. This test was developed and maintained by individuals whose primary expertise was in valid measurement procedures assisted by a team of persons who developed multiple choice test items that were based more on their language expertise than math. Scores were in a sense arbitrary and didn't represent a "percentage" of anything. However the use of an ECL test to determine readiness for international military personnel from many countries to participate in U.S.military training was considered a very reliable source of measuring English-language readiness. The test measured listening and reading skills and was "loaded" with numerous structural, vocabulary and phonological factors. It was multiple choice and could be administered in an hour to a large group of students. Students went on from DLIELC for training as pilots, staff college attendees, electronics specialists, medical personnel, etc. and enjoyed a very low failure rate due to language factors. Often, the comprehension scores tended to reflect competence in spoken English, because most of these students had acquired English in a balanced environment of listening, speaking, reading and writing skills. The DLIELC program itself was fairly uniform in which all American Language Course materials were systematically provided for specific lengths of time to teaching staff trained to use specific methodologies. DLIELC students normally start their training in their home countries and later go to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio to finish general English when their ECL scores meet predetermined criteria to continue to continue on to study specialized terminology.



In the 1980's a gentleman from the Central Intelligence Agency was tasked with the production of a more objective oral language measurement system than the FSI exam, with truly meaningful scores and criteria. He accomplished that mission and the new Oral Proficiency Interview (OPI) examination was designed. That's the good news! The bad news is that it is both an art and a science to administer. A copy of the criteria and rating factors is below. It can be found at the DLIELC website at http://www.dlielc.org/testing/opi_profile.html  This OPI took care of the majority of the problems with the older FSI exam, including a very tight and variable interview system in which persons were taken to their highest level of oral communication. Both listening and speaking skills receive a score. The chart below reflects whole number judgments with a performance-based description of what the person being tested can do with the language. The problem is that even after two weeks of training persons to administer the test, there is a rather high failure rate among tester candidates. At one time potential interviewer failures rates were as high as 40%. Tests are administered by pairs of persons who have to agree on a score. I have seen persons with graduate degrees in linguistics fail to become certified interviewers and persons with much less technical expertise succeed and become very competent certified interviewers. The OPI is now used in numerous programs throughout the military, intelligence and diplomatic communities. It is NOT used in place of other valid testing instruments. It is reserved as a supplement for persons in which a known language production level is required. This may include persons who will be air traffic controllers or pilots in which verbal communication skills can be critical.



The ROTC programs at the University of Puerto Rico require OPI scores for their cadets who become officers in the U.S. military establishment. They also have required ECL scores, and candidates must also be verbally competent in spoken English to get their commissions and succeed in adequate communication for their jobs in the military. The required score to enroll in the ROTC program is an ECL of 75 and an OPI score of 2/1+. One year later the required ECL score is 80 with a 2/2 OPI. To be commissioned in the  U.S. Military the required ECL is 90 and the required OPI is 2+/2. The first number (2+) reflects listening comprehension and the second number reflects speaking ability. When we include the + (plus) designation, this means that the candidate performs at the next higher level at least 60% of the time. Therefore, if we go from 0 (no competence) to five (educated native speaker competence) there are eleven possible levels including the pluses. The difficult part for most interviewers is reaching the candidates' real levels, measuring objectively, and having each interview so different from the last one that the possibility of compromise through information sharing is very unlikely. An ECL score of 90 is equivalent to a TOEFL score of 550, which is adequate for an international student to get into many American universities. The American Language Course Proficiency Test (ALCPT) is made from expired ECL tests and can be made available to civilian institutions.



Why am I telling you about all of this? I was in management work at DLIELC when the OPI system was introduced and never had reason to become a certified interviewer. However, what I find exciting is that the OPI Rating Factor Grid below describes the natural sequence in which our ESL students acquire English. It is a recapitulation of the entire never-ending process of getting a new language. I'm guessing that average competent foreign language majors in a good university would graduate with a 3/3 OPI score in their target languages. The numbers in the OPI can only hint at how long and complicated a process we have to go through to really be truly functional in a second language. For travelling or living in another country for a while, 2/1+ is a very reasonable goal. The chart should give ESL instructors strong insight into both teaching objectives and what their students are going through.  



There is a short general article on my website about language testing at

 http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/lang_tests.html  





Ted



       Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
  Independent Consultant in Language
         and Intercultural Training
              14456 Agarita Road
          Austin, Texas 78734-2009
             Phone:512-266-1801
              taklein at austin.rr.com        
            www.tedklein-ESL.com     
             









OPI  RATING  FACTOR  GRID

 

       
     Interactive Comprehension
     Structural Control  Texts Produced Lexical Control
     Delivery

       
     Sociolinguistic Competence
     Global Tasks and Functions
     
       

      0+
     The individual understands a number of short, memorized utterances in areas of immediate needs; frequent, long pauses and repeated requests for repetition.  
     No control. Can only use memorized structures. 

       

      Individual words and phrases.
     Memorized words and phrases related to immediate survival needs.
     Even in memorized speech, stress, intonation, tone usually quite faulty.
     Severely limited.  Any knowledge of cultural appropriateness has a nonlinguistic source
     Can make statements and ask questions using memorized material.
     
       

       

      1
     A native speaker must often use slowed speech, repetition, paraphrase, or a combination of these to be understood by this individual.  Misunderstandings are frequent, but the individual is able to ask for help and to verify comprehension of native speech in face-to-face interaction. 
     Structural accuracy is random or severely limited.  Almost every utterance has errors in basic structures.  Time concepts are vague.  Can formulate some questions.  

      Discrete sentences.
     Very limited.  Covers courtesy expressions, introductions, identification, personal and accommodation needs, daily routine.
     Often speaks with great difficulty. Pronunciation, stress, intonation generally poor.
     Uses greetings and courtesy expressions.  Can interact with native speakers used to dealing with non-natives.
     Can create sentences; begin, maintain, and close short conversations by asking and answering simple questions; satisfy simple daily needs.
     
       

       

      2
     The individual can get the gist of most everyday conversations, but has some difficulty understanding native speakers in situations that require a specialized or sophisticated knowledge.  (May require a native speaker to adjust to his/her limitations in some way).  
     Discourse is minimally cohesive.  Grammatical structures are usually not very elaborate and not thoroughly controlled; errors are frequent.  Simple structure and basic grammatical relations are typically controlled.  

       

      Full paragraphs.
     Sufficient to discuss high frequency concrete topics such as work, family, personal background and interests, travel, current events.  Imprecise for less common topics.
     Speaks with confidence but not facility.  Can usually be understood by those not used to dealing with non-natives.
     Satisfies routine social demands and limited work requirements.  Can interact with native speakers not used to dealing with non-natives; native speakers may have to adjust to limitations.
     Can describe people, places, and things; narrate current, past, and future activities in full paragraphs; state facts; give instructions or directions; ask and answer questions in the work place; deal with non-routine daily situations.
     
       

       

      3
     In face-to-face conversation with natives speaking the standard dialect at a normal rate of speech, comprehension is quite complete.  Although cultural references, proverbs, and the implications of nuances and idiom may not be fully understood, the individual can easily repair the conversation.  
     Effectively combines structure and vocabulary to convey meaning. Discourse is cohesive.  Use of structural devices is flexible and elaborate.  Errors occur in low frequency and highly complex structures; but structural inaccuracy rarely causes misunderstanding.  

      Extended discourse.
     Broad enough for effective formal and informal conversations on practical, social, and professional topics.  Can convey abstract concepts.
     Speaks readily and fills pauses suitably.  Pronunciation may be obviously foreign. Flaws in stress, intonation, pitch rarely disturb the native speaker.
     Uses cultural references.  When errors are made, can easily repair the conversation.
     Can converse extensively in formal and informal situations; discuss abstract topics; support opinions; hypothesize; deal with unfamiliar topics and situations; clarify points.  
     
       

       

      4
     Can understand native speakers of the standard and other major dialects in  essentially any face-to-face interaction.  Can understand the details and ramifications of concepts that are culturally or conceptually different from his/her own.  Understands shifts of both subject matter and tone.  
     Organizes discourse well, using appropriate rhetorical devices and high level discourse structures. 

       

       

       

      Speeches, lectures, debates, 

      conference discussions.
     Precise for representational purposes within personal and professional experience.  Can elaborate concepts freely; choose appropriate words to convey nuances of meaning.
     Speaks effortlessly and smoothly, but would seldom be perceived as a native speaker.

       
     Uses and understands details and ramifications of target cultural references. Can set and shift the tone of exchanges with a variety of native speakers.
     Can tailor language to fit the audience; counsel; persuade; represent an official point of view; negotiate; advocate a position at length; interpret informally.
     
       

      5
     (No gaps in comprehension, including all details and nuances.)
     Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.  

      All texts controlled by a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.
     Breadth of vocabulary and idiom equivalent to that of a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.
     Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker of a standard dialect.
     Speech reflects the cultural standards of country where language is natively spoken.
     Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.
     

DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03 (Reverse)

 

       
      OPI  PERFORMANCE  PROFILE RATERS
     DATE
     Check One:
     C
     S
     
       
     ENTRY
     Mid
     Exit  
      
     
      SCN/TEL OPI CODE
     RANK/NAME
     CY
     GRAD DATE
     SET CODE
     TEACHER/ROOM NO.
     VERIFICATION
     
      Interactive Comprehension Structural Control / Texts Produced Lexical Control
     
       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       
      
      
     
      Delivery
     Sociolinguistic Competence
     Global Tasks and Functions
     
       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       
      
      
     
       
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
     

    DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03







                                                

 ----- Original Message ----- 

From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:45 AM
Subject: [Assessment 1149] Re: Observation checklist


Ted,

Did you use an oral proficiency interview at the Defense Language
Institute?  If so, how log did it take to administer to each student?  I
think time is a real barrier to most adult ESL/ESOL programs.  Thus, they
use tests that can be administered to students as a group and easily
evaluated.

For some college programs for international students, a whole range of
tests are used for placement, including a writing sample, a reading test,
and an oral interview.  Clearly that's more possible with smaller numbers
of students who are also paying for the classes.

What do you think is needed in the way of tests?  In Passing the Torch,
Forrest and I point to assessment as a major issue facing all the colleges
we studied.  We recommend the development of a test of all four skills
that, if possible, could be administered and scored in a reasonable amount
of time.

Have you tried the BEST Plus test?  What has been your experience with
that test?

I agree that for placement at literacy levels, a simple test developed by
a program might be sufficient.

I also think that for progress through the levels, student achievement in
the previous class, as judged by the instructor ("professional wisdom"),
is still the best determiner of whether a student is ready to go to the
next level.

Jodi


> Jodi,
>
> Same here! As long as the BEST Test is used to show gains, I'm afraid that
> there isn't much chance that REAL gains could be charted and compared. It
> is used too often to measure progress and is not as good for that purpose
> as one would hope. Really valid proficiency tests are the only way to
> prove the point. Achievement tests don't tell much in terms of overall
> progress. I would also guess that it would take a minimum of 120 hours of
> solid training to have a measureable level with any test that one could
> play numbers with. Other factors including attendance, etc. would have to
> be factored in. Adults have families and jobs in the way of total
> dedication to attendance. Also, one would have to have a test in which
> human judgment would play a small role. The BEST is fine for its original
> purpose, which was to place persons with others at their same levels of
> communication. Good measurement is the only way to prove anything. I often
> rely on plain old gut instincts to figure how things are really going. I
> know that's not very scientific.
>
> Cheers,  Ted
> www.tedklein-ESL.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:05 PM
> Subject: [Assessment 1138] Re: Observation checklist
>
>
> Hi, Ted.  Glad to make contact again.
>
> I definitely agree that smaller classes are more likely to bring learner
> gains, especially in language, since students will have more opportunity
> to speak when there are fewer students.  I didn't know about the DLI
> policy, but it is a good one.  The problem with adult ESL classes, I fear,
> is that there is such limited money available that programs would find it
> difficult to keep class size to these numbers.
>
> Has anyone tried to reduce class size and chart the learning gains?  If
> so, please share with us all.  It might be that this would be a good
> investment.  If students in smaller classes make faster gains, then there
> would be more spaces available as these students transitioned to other
> classes or the workforce.
>
> Jodi
>
> Hi Jodi,
>>
>> Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times in the
>> past,
>> I think at least once when you visited the Defense Language Institute
>> English Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I
>> mention
>> DLI is that it represents a language program with little leeway to fail.
>> I
>> spent 20 years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is to train
>> allied and friendly military personnel worldwide in general and
>> specialized English. Most students start ESL in their home countries
>> with
>> DLIELC personnel advising, and in some cases teaching, in these overseas
>> military language centers. It may still be the largest language program
>> in
>> the world. Students after reaching certain levels go to Lackland Air
>> Force
>> Base in San Antonio, complete their general English, usually go through
>> specialized terminology and then on to whatever training their country
>> needs with the U.S. military. Students have run the full gamut from
>> recruits and NCO's up to generals and admirals. This is a very tightly
>> organized "well-packaged" language program with predictable training
>> times
>> and results.
>>
>> Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb while I was at
>> at DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum. This was
>> rarely broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters' bean
>> counter would calculate that if a mere two or three students could be
>> added to a class, voila, look at the money we would save! This money
>> came
>> both from foreign governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue and then
>> try
>> it, I believe several times over the years. However, in an organization
>> that has a very effective testing system; both achievement and
>> proficiency, it was soon noticed that the scores were going down, just
>> enough so that they could prove that no money was being saved on teacher
>> salaries and other expenses. I spent three years with the Royal Thai
>> Navy
>> for DLI as language training advisor and remember having to twist arms
>> with the RTN Navy Education Department with the same problem. They
>> wanted
>> 15 in a class.
>>
>> Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during my last
>> eight years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes have
>> consistently been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an
>> organization is stuck with a low budget, make the hours of training per
>> week lower, but keep the class sizes within 10 or so students. Fewer
>> hours
>> of really effective training are certainly better than large classes
>> where
>> the student attention level and collegiality are reduced. I remember
>> Mary
>> Finocchiaro saying years ago that she didn't care how many students were
>> in her classroom, she would teach them! Unfortunately, most of us just
>> aren't THAT dynamic.
>>
>> Cheers,  Ted
>> www.tedklein-ESL.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM
>> Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist
>>
>>
>> Usha,
>>
>> I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
>> experience that with more than 10 students, learning decreases?  If so,
>> how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be
>> interested
>> in ways to decrease class size.
>>
>> It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
>> constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more
>> important
>> to involve them in activities in which all get to participate, which
>> means
>> less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small classes
>> need that.
>>
>> What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?
>>
>> You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop out of
>> classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any of you
>> keep
>> records of your students that would identify those who do return?  Do
>> you
>> have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning English
>> outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know of any
>> research about adult English Language Learners in this area, but there
>> is
>> an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State
>> University
>> following adult literacy level students for several years.  They have
>> identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside of the
>> classroom and also that some of these learners come back to classes
>> after
>> being out of them for some time.
>>
>> Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of you been
>> able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of these
>> services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have been most
>> effective? If you teach in a community college, have your students had
>> access to the various support services provided to other students?
>>
>> Several of you have talked about the differences in progress made by
>> students with more advanced education and those who are at literacy
>> level.
>>  Because literacy level students take longer in making progress, most
>> programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and
>> literate
>> beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and literacy
>> will
>> need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to talk about
>> what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about
>> persistence
>> of literacy level students and their learning gains.
>>
>> Students with advanced education in their own language may be able to
>> have
>> a condensed program since they are already experienced as students and
>> often have high motivation to get through English so that they can take
>> courses related to their previous or future career.  City College of San
>> Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters worth of
>> work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer something along
>> these lines?
>>
>> Jodi
>>
>>
>>> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked the tool
>>> that
>>> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope that it
>>> is
>>> not
>>> something that has already been asked and answered.
>>>
>>> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of our ESL
>>> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal constraints
>>> and
>>> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a positive
>>> to
>>> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we expect to see
>>> more
>>> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the numbers.
>>>
>>> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy programs
>>> because of many socio-economic factors.
>>>
>>> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing market (in
>>> past
>>> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to stay in
>>> one
>>> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen more in
>>> people
>>> who do not have high levels of education from their native country).
>>>
>>> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from their
>>> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some kind of
>>> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs, go in and
>>> out
>>> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of various
>>> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and have no time
>>> to
>>> practice.
>>>
>>> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in educational
>>> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
>>> availability
>>> of  community resources.
>>>
>>> Usha Narayanan
>>> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
>>> California
>>> 408-522-2737
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Marie,
>>>>
>>>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and out of the
>>>> U.S.A.
>>>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc. in ESL.
>>>> It
>>>> is
>>>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that I'm
>>>> back
>>>> in the
>>>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the Defense
>>>> Language
>>>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching immigrants part
>>>> time for
>>>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin
>>>> Community
>>>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what language
>>>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to work at a
>>>> higher
>>>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I
>>>> apply
>>>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy
>>>> traps."
>>>> I
>>>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
>>>> interested and
>>>> it is published on my website at
>>>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel absolutely free
>>>> to use
>>>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank you very
>>>> much for
>>>> the input. Questions are welcome.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,   Ted
>>>>
>>>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>>>>   Independent Consultant in Language
>>>>          and Intercultural Training
>>>>               14456 Agarita Road
>>>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>>>>              Phone:512-266-1801
>>>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
>>>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>
>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi  Ted,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it
>>>>> yourself?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try
>>>>> to
>>>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do others
>>>>> you
>>>>> work with?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the
>>>>> students
>>>>> advance?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
>>>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>>>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marie,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ted
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
>>>>>>  NO
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    supportive personality?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    other and the instructor?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     target language  proficiency?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     than push them?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     exaggerated speech?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     results?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---- Original Message -----
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello  everyone,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on  regarding
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??  I was
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
>>>>>>> intensity
>>>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
>>>>>>> opportunities
>>>>>>> for  professional development.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>>>>>>> student
>>>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>>>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>>> Assessment mailing list
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>>>
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>>> National Institute for Literacy
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>>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>> Professor, Education Department
>> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
>> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in
>> ESOL/Bilingual
>> Education
>> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
>> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
>> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
>> email: crandall at umbc.edu
>> www.umbc.edu/llc/
>> www.umbc.edu/esol/
>> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>
>
>
> --
> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Professor, Education Department
> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
> Education
> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
> email: crandall at umbc.edu
> www.umbc.edu/llc/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>


-- 
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html



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From Ajit.Gopalakrishnan at po.state.ct.us  Thu Feb  7 13:13:32 2008
From: Ajit.Gopalakrishnan at po.state.ct.us (Gopalakrishnan, Ajit)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 13:13:32 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1156] Re: Intensity of Instruction and funding ofadult
 ESLprograms
In-Reply-To: <001301c868de$089ec370$19dc4a50$@net>
Message-ID: <200802071317859.SM06896@doit-mstwmms1>

When the topic of managed enrollment has come up in my discussions with
local administrators, more so in recent years, I have tried to reiterate
that managed enrollment does not have to be an all or nothing
proposition. In CT, where close to 90% of the public adult education
expenditures come from state and local sources, several local program
administrators don't like the idea of denying entry to a local resident
until the next term/semester. It appears that our suggestion is similar
to the "tracks" concept you mention below --of course, the program needs
to have some minimum capacity in order to provide both managed and open
entry options. Even large programs may only be able to offer "tracks" at
one or two of their largest sites while the remaining smaller satellite
locations may end up continuing with an open-entry approach.

 

The end game is about finding ways that enable learners to maximize
their attendance hours. The most recent CAL study and two previous
studies through CASAS (one with CA data and the other with CT data)
confirm that learners who attend more hours (generally more than 100
hours) reflect the greatest gains in ESL. These studies also show that a
large number of ESL students attend fewer than 60 hours. This brings us
back to the persistence issue. Jodi raised a question in an earlier
email about intensity and attendance. My hypothesis is that learners in
more intensive (greater weekly intensity) classes attend more total
hours than learners in classes where the same number of instructional
hours are delivered over a longer duration. I have seen it manifested in
some local program data but need to study it more.

 

Ajit


Ajit Gopalakrishnan
Connecticut Department of Education
25 Industrial Park Road
Middletown, CT 06457
Phone: (860) 807-2125
Fax: (860) 807-2062
Email: ajit.gopalakrishnan at ct.gov

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
<mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov> ] On Behalf Of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 11:34 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1134] Re: Intensity of Instruction and funding
ofadult ESLprograms

Jim,

That's too bad about your experiences with managed enrollment. Some of
the
colleges we studied think they "beat this rap" by creating very large
managed enrollment classes to allow for attrition. (For them, managed
enrollment meant that if students didn't attend on a regular basis, they
were dropped from the program.) They figured that what they lost in head
counts, they made up for in contact hours. But we also heard stories
like
yours. I'm beginning to believe that "managed enrollment" works best as
one
of several "tracks" -- if a program is large enough to have "tracks" --
a
track for the motivated. Some programs believe that it is by itself
"motivational" -- in that it encourages students to make more of a
"commitment."

What do the rest of you think?

Forrest    

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
<mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov> ] On
Behalf Of Schneider, Jim
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 11:30 PM
To: Jodi Crandall; The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1126] Re: Intensity of Instruction and funding of
adult
ESLprograms


At our cc based adult learning center we do not charge any fees for
instruction.

We have dabbled with the managed enrollment, however our institution is
driven by enrollment and contact hours so that we simply cannot afford
to
operate in a managed enrollment fashion. I do believe that it is better
for
the teachers and students. Unfortunately, operating in a strict fashion,
our
enrollment took close to a 50% reduction. Still, recognizing the value
of
the concept, the past two years we have attempted a semi-managed
enrollment.
In the fall we have a 3 week enrollment period and then hold classes
with no
additional students for 5 weeks. Then an additional 3 week open
enrollment
followed by no new students for 5 weeks. Ideally, we would operate in
this
fashion year round providing some sense of continuity for the
instructors
and learners. Unfortunately, student attendance waxes and wanes due to
employment, weather, transportation, etc. and in each year we attempted
this
we held to it through the second 5 weeks and then abandon it for the
remainder of the year because student attendance/enrollment declined  to
the
point that we had to enroll any learner whenever they were interested to
meet our enrollment goals.

The bulk of our english learners enroll in the three levels of morning
classes which meet Monday through Thursday from 8:30 until 11 a.m.. Our
evening program has varied from 2-3 levels. Evening classes meet Monday
and
Wednesday from 6 to 8 p.m.. Both morning and evening classes are offered
for
approximately 38 weeks through the fall and spring semesters.

These offerings are "how we have always done it" and are somewhat bound
by
the available funds.

Jim, "I like the sound of eloquent" Schneider

Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Sent: Tue 2/5/2008 3:30 PM
To: Assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1116] Intensity of Instruction and funding of adult
ESLprograms


Hi, everyone.  It has been interesting reading the postings today and
want
to respond to some of them now.  I just learned from Forrest that his
Internet Service Provider is down, but he expects to be back on line
either
tonight or tomorrow.  He'll add his comments later.

In the meantime, let me respond to a couple of themes that have emerged
in
the discussion.

Jackie asked what we meant by "intensity of instruction" and Marie
provided
a definition from an excellent publication from the Center for Applied
Linguistics which analyzes the effects of instructional hours and
intensity
of instruction on NRS level gains in  listening and speaking.

In our study, we define "intensity of instruction" as the number of
hours
per week and differentiate it from "duration" which is the total number
of
hours for the program.
We think both intensity and duration are important.  It is important to
have
enough hours per week of instruction, but also important that there be
enough weeks.  Programs in the 5 community colleges we studied varied
from 3
to 20 hours per week of instruction, with 10 hours/week considered
"semi-intensive" and 20 hours/week as "intensive" instruction.

As Jim so eloquently put it, there are some basic reasons why programs
might
not offer as many hours of instruction per week as they want to, with
funding being at the root of many of the reasons.

Forrest and I would be interested in knowing how many hours per week
your
various programs meet (and for how many weeks) and how you determined
that
schedule.  Have you tried more intense programs for shorter periods of
time?
What has been the impact on attendance?

Have any of you provided adult ESL/ESOL programs that charge a fee?  We
were
surprised to learn of such a program at Bunker Hill Community College.
They
provide free adult ESOL and also a fee-based program in an attempt to
accommodate more learners.  They found that at least some learners were
able
to pay the fee and thus they were able to serve more learners.

We'd also like to know if your programs are open-entry/open-exit, with
learners coming to class when they can and sometimes leaving for several
classes before they return, or if you have tried some kind of "managed
enrollment" with attendance expectations of those who are enrolled in
your
classes.  Several community colleges have experimented with this
approach
and have found it effective.  I know that Forrest will have more to say
about this.

I have to go teach, but when I return, I'd like to talk a bit about
issues
surrounding literacy and prior education.

Jodi Crandall


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From crandall at umbc.edu  Thu Feb  7 15:26:49 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (Jodi Crandall)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 15:26:49 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1157] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <001801c869b3$01219660$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
References: <C3CE4BCC.8F31%usha_narayanan@fuhsd.org><52294.130.85.83.224.1202268183.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><001e01c868c8$49636de0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75><49507.130.85.83.224.1202328350.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><007e01c86927$0ca72220$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
	<50639.138.88.30.77.1202391909.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
	<001801c869b3$01219660$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
Message-ID: <9A537A75-618C-402D-8F6E-EDEA8C0DF840@umbc.edu>

Ted and all,

I imagine others would like to have access to the ALCPT information  
as well.

I have also given the OPI, not as a certified interviewer but with a  
lot of training in its use.  I use it  as part of information  
gathering in reviewing programs overseas, to see what various levels  
of instruction correspond to in proficiency terms. I haven't used it  
with adult ESL population.  Like Mary Margaret, I have found that it  
takes about the same amount of time.

Do others have the same concerns about the BEST Plus?

Jodi

On Feb 7, 2008, at 12:58 PM, Ted Klein wrote:
> Jodi,
>
> My wife, Mary Margaret, was a certified OPI interviewer at DLI. She  
> says that the average interview was 20 minutes. This depends on the  
> interviewee's level. Two people interview. The higher the level,  
> the longer the test. It's a really good test. The bad news is that  
> there is/was something like a 40% failure rate for certification of  
> interviewer among instructors and staff. Some of these people were  
> pretty sharp, but doing it is an art and a science. There is no  
> question the OPI is the state-of-the-art. Even experienced  
> interviewers get frequent tune-ups. I believe that the OPI scoring  
> system with the + indicating 60% of the next higher level COULD be  
> simplified and adapted to adult education. However, if progress has  
> to be shown as often as now, real proficiency doesn't change that  
> fast and could cost programs $ when they submit their paperwork.   
> IF it were done after maybe 120 class hours, there may be  
> significant changes.
>
> Although I got the training, I bribe other people to do the BEST  
> Plus on my students, including Mary Margaret! I think that it's  
> fine for placement, but really doesn't work for "progress" for a  
> number of reasons. Even when people are trained to use it properly,  
> there is enormous difference, even in how the interviewers  
> expresses themselves orally and make scores. If we have to continue  
> using the BEST tests, another thing that I would like to see is  
> small teams of really good and consistent interviewers that do the  
> tests on all of the students. A weak measurement system is the  
> Achilles Heel in Adult Education.
>
> I would prefer the use of the American Language Course Placement  
> Test (ALCPT). If you will give me an e-mail address that is  
> convenient, I will send you more information on it from my old  
> workshops. It's cheaper, quicker, and quite accurate. I totally  
> agree with you that teacher wisdom is also a good way to determine  
> where and when the student should move on. Unfortunately, many  
> managers don't trust the peasants! There are also several good ways  
> to place people that don't involve their ability to read the ALCPT.
>
> I put out an Adult Education/ESL Newsletter once in a while. I  
> recently did an article on the OPI, which may answer more of the  
> questions. Here it is:
>
>
> Adult Education/ESL News Letter; the Federal Oral Proficiency  
> Interview   Jan. 8, 2008    Ted Klein
>
> For many years the Foreign Service Institute (FSI) of the United  
> States conducted interviews of foreign language proficiency to  
> measure the understanding and production of languages acquired by  
> their staff. This test was also used by some other federal agencies  
> and was adapted by some civilian language programs as a measure of  
> their graduates. This test expressed performance using scores  
> ranging from zero to five. For decades it was the best game in  
> town. The problem is that both the interview techniques and scoring  
> systems in the FSI exam were not as objective as needed for some  
> persons, whose jobs required very specific scores that would be  
> important to accomplishment of their missions.
>
> Language proficiency testing needs have always depended on the  
> terminal objectives of the students. In most cases, a well-designed  
> comprehension test is adequate and may be used for language class  
> placement, graduation criteria, determination of readiness for  
> certain jobs, training, or education, etc. During my twenty years  
> with the Defense Language Institute English Language Center, all  
> students were tested with the English Comprehension Level (ECL)  
> test, which was developed as an overall measure of listening and  
> reading skills. This test was developed and maintained by  
> individuals whose primary expertise was in valid measurement  
> procedures assisted by a team of persons who developed multiple  
> choice test items that were based more on their language expertise  
> than math. Scores were in a sense arbitrary and didn't represent a  
> "percentage" of anything. However the use of an ECL test to  
> determine readiness for international military personnel from many  
> countries to participate in U.S.military training was considered a  
> very reliable source of measuring English-language readiness. The  
> test measured listening and reading skills and was "loaded" with  
> numerous structural, vocabulary and phonological factors. It was  
> multiple choice and could be administered in an hour to a large  
> group of students. Students went on from DLIELC for training as  
> pilots, staff college attendees, electronics specialists, medical  
> personnel, etc. and enjoyed a very low failure rate due to language  
> factors. Often, the comprehension scores tended to reflect  
> competence in spoken English, because most of these students had  
> acquired English in a balanced environment of listening, speaking,  
> reading and writing skills. The DLIELC program itself was fairly  
> uniform in which all American Language Course materials were  
> systematically provided for specific lengths of time to teaching  
> staff trained to use specific methodologies. DLIELC students  
> normally start their training in their home countries and later go  
> to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio to finish general English  
> when their ECL scores meet predetermined criteria to continue to  
> continue on to study specialized terminology.
>
> In the 1980's a gentleman from the Central Intelligence Agency was  
> tasked with the production of a more objective oral language  
> measurement system than the FSI exam, with truly meaningful scores  
> and criteria. He accomplished that mission and the new Oral  
> Proficiency Interview (OPI) examination was designed. That's the  
> good news! The bad news is that it is both an art and a science to  
> administer. A copy of the criteria and rating factors is below. It  
> can be found at the DLIELC website at http://www.dlielc.org/testing/ 
> opi_profile.html  This OPI took care of the majority of the  
> problems with the older FSI exam, including a very tight and  
> variable interview system in which persons were taken to their  
> highest level of oral communication. Both listening and speaking  
> skills receive a score. The chart below reflects whole number  
> judgments with a performance-based description of what the person  
> being tested can do with the language. The problem is that even  
> after two weeks of training persons to administer the test, there  
> is a rather high failure rate among tester candidates. At one time  
> potential interviewer failures rates were as high as 40%. Tests are  
> administered by pairs of persons who have to agree on a score. I  
> have seen persons with graduate degrees in linguistics fail to  
> become certified interviewers and persons with much less technical  
> expertise succeed and become very competent certified interviewers.  
> The OPI is now used in numerous programs throughout the military,  
> intelligence and diplomatic communities. It is NOT used in place of  
> other valid testing instruments. It is reserved as a supplement for  
> persons in which a known language production level is required.  
> This may include persons who will be air traffic controllers or  
> pilots in which verbal communication skills can be critical.
>
> The ROTC programs at the University of Puerto Rico require OPI  
> scores for their cadets who become officers in the U.S. military  
> establishment. They also have required ECL scores, and candidates  
> must also be verbally competent in spoken English to get their  
> commissions and succeed in adequate communication for their jobs in  
> the military. The required score to enroll in the ROTC program is  
> an ECL of 75 and an OPI score of 2/1+. One year later the required  
> ECL score is 80 with a 2/2 OPI. To be commissioned in the  U.S.  
> Military the required ECL is 90 and the required OPI is 2+/2. The  
> first number (2+) reflects listening comprehension and the second  
> number reflects speaking ability. When we include the + (plus)  
> designation, this means that the candidate performs at the next  
> higher level at least 60% of the time. Therefore, if we go from 0  
> (no competence) to five (educated native speaker competence) there  
> are eleven possible levels including the pluses. The difficult part  
> for most interviewers is reaching the candidates' real levels,  
> measuring objectively, and having each interview so different from  
> the last one that the possibility of compromise through information  
> sharing is very unlikely. An ECL score of 90 is equivalent to a  
> TOEFL score of 550, which is adequate for an international student  
> to get into many American universities. The American Language  
> Course Proficiency Test (ALCPT) is made from expired ECL tests and  
> can be made available to civilian institutions.
>
> Why am I telling you about all of this? I was in management work at  
> DLIELC when the OPI system was introduced and never had reason to  
> become a certified interviewer. However, what I find exciting is  
> that the OPI Rating Factor Grid below describes the natural  
> sequence in which our ESL students acquire English. It is a  
> recapitulation of the entire never-ending process of getting a new  
> language. I'm guessing that average competent foreign language  
> majors in a good university would graduate with a 3/3 OPI score in  
> their target languages. The numbers in the OPI can only hint at how  
> long and complicated a process we have to go through to really be  
> truly functional in a second language. For travelling or living in  
> another country for a while, 2/1+ is a very reasonable goal. The  
> chart should give ESL instructors strong insight into both teaching  
> objectives and what their students are going through.
>
> There is a short general article on my website about language  
> testing at
>  http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/lang_tests.html
>
>
> Ted
>
>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>   Independent Consultant in Language
>          and Intercultural Training
>               14456 Agarita Road
>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>              Phone:512-266-1801
>               taklein at austin.rr.com
>             www.tedklein-ESL.com
>
>
>
>
>
> OPI  RATING  FACTOR  GRID
>
>
> Interactive Comprehension
> Structural Control  Texts Produced
> Lexical Control
> Delivery
>
> Sociolinguistic       Competence
> Global Tasks and Functions
>
> 0+
> The individual understands a number of short, memorized utterances  
> in areas of immediate needs; frequent, long pauses and repeated  
> requests for repetition.
> No control. Can only use memorized structures.
>
> Individual words and phrases.
> Memorized words and phrases related to immediate survival needs.
> Even in memorized speech, stress, intonation, tone usually quite  
> faulty.
> Severely limited.  Any knowledge of cultural appropriateness has a  
> nonlinguistic source
> Can make statements and ask questions using memorized material.
>
>
> 1
> A native speaker must often use slowed speech, repetition,  
> paraphrase, or a combination of these to be understood by this  
> individual.  Misunderstandings are frequent, but the individual is  
> able to ask for help and to verify comprehension of native speech  
> in face-to-face interaction.
> Structural accuracy is random or severely limited.  Almost every  
> utterance has errors in basic structures.  Time concepts are  
> vague.  Can formulate some questions.
> Discrete sentences.
> Very limited.  Covers courtesy       expressions, introductions,  
> identification, personal and accommodation       needs, daily routine.
> Often speaks with great difficulty. Pronunciation, stress,  
> intonation generally poor.
> Uses greetings and courtesy expressions.  Can interact with native  
> speakers used to dealing with non-natives.
> Can create sentences; begin, maintain, and close short  
> conversations by asking and answering simple questions; satisfy  
> simple daily needs.
>
>
> 2
> The individual can get the gist of most everyday conversations, but  
> has some difficulty understanding native speakers in situations  
> that require a specialized or sophisticated knowledge.  (May  
> require a native speaker to adjust to his/her limitations in some  
> way).
> Discourse is minimally cohesive.        Grammatical structures are  
> usually not very elaborate and not thoroughly controlled; errors  
> are frequent.  Simple structure and basic grammatical relations are  
> typically controlled.
>
> Full paragraphs.
> Sufficient to discuss high frequency concrete topics such as work,  
> family, personal       background and interests, travel, current  
> events.  Imprecise for less common topics.
> Speaks with confidence but not facility.        Can usually be  
> understood by those not used to dealing with non-natives.
> Satisfies routine social demands and limited work requirements.   
> Can interact with native speakers not used to dealing with non- 
> natives; native speakers may have to adjust to limitations.
> Can describe people, places, and things; narrate current, past, and  
> future activities in full paragraphs; state facts; give  
> instructions or       directions; ask and answer questions in the  
> work place; deal with non-routine daily situations.
>
>
> 3
> In face-to-face conversation with natives speaking the standard  
> dialect at a normal rate of speech, comprehension is quite  
> complete.  Although cultural references, proverbs, and the  
> implications of nuances and idiom may not be fully understood, the  
> individual can easily repair the conversation.
> Effectively combines structure and vocabulary to convey meaning.  
> Discourse is cohesive.  Use of structural devices is flexible and  
> elaborate.  Errors occur in low frequency and highly complex  
> structures; but structural inaccuracy rarely causes misunderstanding.
> Extended discourse.
> Broad enough for effective formal and informal conversations on  
> practical, social, and professional topics.  Can convey abstract  
> concepts.
> Speaks readily and fills pauses suitably.  Pronunciation may be  
> obviously foreign. Flaws in stress, intonation, pitch rarely  
> disturb the native speaker.
> Uses cultural references.  When errors are made, can easily repair  
> the     conversation.
> Can converse extensively in formal and informal situations; discuss  
> abstract topics; support opinions; hypothesize; deal with  
> unfamiliar topics and situations; clarify points.
>
>
> 4
> Can understand native speakers of the standard and other major  
> dialects in  essentially any face-to-face interaction.  Can  
> understand the details and ramifications of concepts that are  
> culturally or conceptually different from his/her own.  Understands  
> shifts of both subject matter and tone.
> Organizes discourse well, using appropriate rhetorical devices and  
> high level discourse structures.
>
>
>
> Speeches, lectures, debates,
> conference discussions.
> Precise for representational purposes within personal and  
> professional experience.  Can elaborate concepts freely; choose  
> appropriate words to convey nuances of meaning.
> Speaks effortlessly and smoothly, but would seldom be perceived as  
> a native speaker.
>
> Uses and understands details and ramifications of target cultural  
> references. Can set and shift the tone of exchanges with a variety  
> of native speakers.
> Can tailor language to fit the audience; counsel; persuade;  
> represent an official point of view; negotiate; advocate a position  
> at length; interpret informally.
>
> 5
> (No gaps in comprehension, including all details and       nuances.)
> Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated  
> native speaker.
> All texts controlled by a highly articulate, well-educated native  
> speaker.
> Breadth of vocabulary and idiom equivalent to that of a highly  
> articulate,       well-educated native speaker.
> Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated  
> native speaker of a standard dialect.
> Speech reflects the cultural standards of country where language is  
> natively spoken.
> Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated  
> native speaker.
> DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03 (Reverse)
>
>
> OPI  PERFORMANCE  PROFILE
> RATERS
> DATE
> Check One:
> C
> S
>
> ENTRY
> Mid
> Exit
>
>
> SCN/TEL OPI CODE
> RANK/NAME
> CY
> GRAD       DATE
> SET CODE
> TEACHER/ROOM NO.
> VERIFICATION
> Interactive Comprehension
>
> Structural Control / Texts Produced
>
> Lexical Control
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
> Delivery
>
> Sociolinguistic Competence
>
> Global Tasks and Functions
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>     DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03
>
>
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:45 AM
> Subject: [Assessment 1149] Re: Observation checklist
>
> Ted,
>
> Did you use an oral proficiency interview at the Defense Language
> Institute?  If so, how log did it take to administer to each  
> student?  I
> think time is a real barrier to most adult ESL/ESOL programs.   
> Thus, they
> use tests that can be administered to students as a group and easily
> evaluated.
>
> For some college programs for international students, a whole range of
> tests are used for placement, including a writing sample, a reading  
> test,
> and an oral interview.  Clearly that's more possible with smaller  
> numbers
> of students who are also paying for the classes.
>
> What do you think is needed in the way of tests?  In Passing the  
> Torch,
> Forrest and I point to assessment as a major issue facing all the  
> colleges
> we studied.  We recommend the development of a test of all four skills
> that, if possible, could be administered and scored in a reasonable  
> amount
> of time.
>
> Have you tried the BEST Plus test?  What has been your experience with
> that test?
>
> I agree that for placement at literacy levels, a simple test  
> developed by
> a program might be sufficient.
>
> I also think that for progress through the levels, student  
> achievement in
> the previous class, as judged by the instructor ("professional  
> wisdom"),
> is still the best determiner of whether a student is ready to go to  
> the
> next level.
>
> Jodi
>
>
> > Jodi,
> >
> > Same here! As long as the BEST Test is used to show gains, I'm  
> afraid that
> > there isn't much chance that REAL gains could be charted and  
> compared. It
> > is used too often to measure progress and is not as good for that  
> purpose
> > as one would hope. Really valid proficiency tests are the only  
> way to
> > prove the point. Achievement tests don't tell much in terms of  
> overall
> > progress. I would also guess that it would take a minimum of 120  
> hours of
> > solid training to have a measureable level with any test that one  
> could
> > play numbers with. Other factors including attendance, etc. would  
> have to
> > be factored in. Adults have families and jobs in the way of total
> > dedication to attendance. Also, one would have to have a test in  
> which
> > human judgment would play a small role. The BEST is fine for its  
> original
> > purpose, which was to place persons with others at their same  
> levels of
> > communication. Good measurement is the only way to prove  
> anything. I often
> > rely on plain old gut instincts to figure how things are really  
> going. I
> > know that's not very scientific.
> >
> > Cheers,  Ted
> > www.tedklein-ESL.com
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
> > To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:05 PM
> > Subject: [Assessment 1138] Re: Observation checklist
> >
> >
> > Hi, Ted.  Glad to make contact again.
> >
> > I definitely agree that smaller classes are more likely to bring  
> learner
> > gains, especially in language, since students will have more  
> opportunity
> > to speak when there are fewer students.  I didn't know about the DLI
> > policy, but it is a good one.  The problem with adult ESL  
> classes, I fear,
> > is that there is such limited money available that programs would  
> find it
> > difficult to keep class size to these numbers.
> >
> > Has anyone tried to reduce class size and chart the learning  
> gains?  If
> > so, please share with us all.  It might be that this would be a good
> > investment.  If students in smaller classes make faster gains,  
> then there
> > would be more spaces available as these students transitioned to  
> other
> > classes or the workforce.
> >
> > Jodi
> >
> > Hi Jodi,
> >>
> >> Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times in  
> the
> >> past,
> >> I think at least once when you visited the Defense Language  
> Institute
> >> English Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I
> >> mention
> >> DLI is that it represents a language program with little leeway  
> to fail.
> >> I
> >> spent 20 years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is to  
> train
> >> allied and friendly military personnel worldwide in general and
> >> specialized English. Most students start ESL in their home  
> countries
> >> with
> >> DLIELC personnel advising, and in some cases teaching, in these  
> overseas
> >> military language centers. It may still be the largest language  
> program
> >> in
> >> the world. Students after reaching certain levels go to Lackland  
> Air
> >> Force
> >> Base in San Antonio, complete their general English, usually go  
> through
> >> specialized terminology and then on to whatever training their  
> country
> >> needs with the U.S. military. Students have run the full gamut from
> >> recruits and NCO's up to generals and admirals. This is a very  
> tightly
> >> organized "well-packaged" language program with predictable  
> training
> >> times
> >> and results.
> >>
> >> Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb while  
> I was at
> >> at DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum.  
> This was
> >> rarely broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters' bean
> >> counter would calculate that if a mere two or three students  
> could be
> >> added to a class, voila, look at the money we would save! This  
> money
> >> came
> >> both from foreign governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue and  
> then
> >> try
> >> it, I believe several times over the years. However, in an  
> organization
> >> that has a very effective testing system; both achievement and
> >> proficiency, it was soon noticed that the scores were going  
> down, just
> >> enough so that they could prove that no money was being saved on  
> teacher
> >> salaries and other expenses. I spent three years with the Royal  
> Thai
> >> Navy
> >> for DLI as language training advisor and remember having to  
> twist arms
> >> with the RTN Navy Education Department with the same problem. They
> >> wanted
> >> 15 in a class.
> >>
> >> Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during my  
> last
> >> eight years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes have
> >> consistently been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an
> >> organization is stuck with a low budget, make the hours of  
> training per
> >> week lower, but keep the class sizes within 10 or so students.  
> Fewer
> >> hours
> >> of really effective training are certainly better than large  
> classes
> >> where
> >> the student attention level and collegiality are reduced. I  
> remember
> >> Mary
> >> Finocchiaro saying years ago that she didn't care how many  
> students were
> >> in her classroom, she would teach them! Unfortunately, most of  
> us just
> >> aren't THAT dynamic.
> >>
> >> Cheers,  Ted
> >> www.tedklein-ESL.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
> >> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM
> >> Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist
> >>
> >>
> >> Usha,
> >>
> >> I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
> >> experience that with more than 10 students, learning decreases?   
> If so,
> >> how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be
> >> interested
> >> in ways to decrease class size.
> >>
> >> It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
> >> constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more
> >> important
> >> to involve them in activities in which all get to participate,  
> which
> >> means
> >> less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small  
> classes
> >> need that.
> >>
> >> What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?
> >>
> >> You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop  
> out of
> >> classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any of  
> you
> >> keep
> >> records of your students that would identify those who do  
> return?  Do
> >> you
> >> have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning  
> English
> >> outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know of  
> any
> >> research about adult English Language Learners in this area, but  
> there
> >> is
> >> an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State
> >> University
> >> following adult literacy level students for several years.  They  
> have
> >> identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside  
> of the
> >> classroom and also that some of these learners come back to classes
> >> after
> >> being out of them for some time.
> >>
> >> Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of  
> you been
> >> able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of  
> these
> >> services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have been  
> most
> >> effective? If you teach in a community college, have your  
> students had
> >> access to the various support services provided to other students?
> >>
> >> Several of you have talked about the differences in progress  
> made by
> >> students with more advanced education and those who are at literacy
> >> level.
> >>  Because literacy level students take longer in making progress,  
> most
> >> programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and
> >> literate
> >> beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and  
> literacy
> >> will
> >> need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to  
> talk about
> >> what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about
> >> persistence
> >> of literacy level students and their learning gains.
> >>
> >> Students with advanced education in their own language may be  
> able to
> >> have
> >> a condensed program since they are already experienced as  
> students and
> >> often have high motivation to get through English so that they  
> can take
> >> courses related to their previous or future career.  City  
> College of San
> >> Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters  
> worth of
> >> work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer  
> something along
> >> these lines?
> >>
> >> Jodi
> >>
> >>
> >>> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked  
> the tool
> >>> that
> >>> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope  
> that it
> >>> is
> >>> not
> >>> something that has already been asked and answered.
> >>>
> >>> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of  
> our ESL
> >>> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal  
> constraints
> >>> and
> >>> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a  
> positive
> >>> to
> >>> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we expect  
> to see
> >>> more
> >>> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the  
> numbers.
> >>>
> >>> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy  
> programs
> >>> because of many socio-economic factors.
> >>>
> >>> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing  
> market (in
> >>> past
> >>> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to  
> stay in
> >>> one
> >>> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen more in
> >>> people
> >>> who do not have high levels of education from their native  
> country).
> >>>
> >>> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from  
> their
> >>> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some  
> kind of
> >>> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs,  
> go in and
> >>> out
> >>> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of  
> various
> >>> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and have  
> no time
> >>> to
> >>> practice.
> >>>
> >>> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in  
> educational
> >>> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
> >>> availability
> >>> of  community resources.
> >>>
> >>> Usha Narayanan
> >>> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
> >>> California
> >>> 408-522-2737
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Marie,
> >>>>
> >>>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and  
> out of the
> >>>> U.S.A.
> >>>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc.  
> in ESL.
> >>>> It
> >>>> is
> >>>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that  
> I'm
> >>>> back
> >>>> in the
> >>>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the  
> Defense
> >>>> Language
> >>>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching  
> immigrants part
> >>>> time for
> >>>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin
> >>>> Community
> >>>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what  
> language
> >>>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to  
> work at a
> >>>> higher
> >>>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I
> >>>> apply
> >>>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy
> >>>> traps."
> >>>> I
> >>>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
> >>>> interested and
> >>>> it is published on my website at
> >>>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel  
> absolutely free
> >>>> to use
> >>>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank  
> you very
> >>>> much for
> >>>> the input. Questions are welcome.
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers,   Ted
> >>>>
> >>>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
> >>>>   Independent Consultant in Language
> >>>>          and Intercultural Training
> >>>>               14456 Agarita Road
> >>>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
> >>>>              Phone:512-266-1801
> >>>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
> >>>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi  Ted,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it
> >>>>> yourself?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you  
> deliberately try
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or  
> do others
> >>>>> you
> >>>>> work with?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the
> >>>>> students
> >>>>> advance?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Marie
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
> >>>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
> >>>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
> >>>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
> >>>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Marie,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ted
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
> >>>>>>  NO
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>    supportive personality?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>    other and the instructor?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>     target language  proficiency?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>     than push them?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>     exaggerated speech?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>     results?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ---- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hello  everyone,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on   
> regarding
> >>>>>>> your
> >>>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??   
> I was
> >>>>>>> very
> >>>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types  
> of issues
> >>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a  
> lack of
> >>>>>>> intensity
> >>>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
> >>>>>>> opportunities
> >>>>>>> for  professional development.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit  
> the ESL
> >>>>>>> student
> >>>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Marie  Cora
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Marie  Cora
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
> >>>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -------------------------------
> >>>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
> >>>>>>> Assessment mailing list
> >>>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
> >>>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings,  
> please go to
> >>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> >>>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
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> >> --
> >> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> >> Professor, Education Department
> >> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
> >> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in
> >> ESOL/Bilingual
> >> Education
> >> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
> >> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
> >> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
> >> email: crandall at umbc.edu
> >> www.umbc.edu/llc/
> >> www.umbc.edu/esol/
> >> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
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> > --
> > JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> > Professor, Education Department
> > Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
> > Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/ 
> Bilingual
> > Education
> > University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
> > 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
> > ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
> > email: crandall at umbc.edu
> > www.umbc.edu/llc/
> > www.umbc.edu/esol/
> > www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
> >
> >
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> >
>
>
> -- 
> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Professor, Education Department
> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/ 
> Bilingual
> Education
> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
> email: crandall at umbc.edu
> www.umbc.edu/llc/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor and Director
Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
University of Maryland Baltimore County
1000 Hilltop Circle
Baltimore, MD 21250
tel:  410-455-2313
fax: 410-455-8947
eml: crandall at umbc.edu




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From mueland at cal.org  Thu Feb  7 16:09:47 2008
From: mueland at cal.org (Michelle Ueland)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 16:09:47 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1158] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <9A537A75-618C-402D-8F6E-EDEA8C0DF840@umbc.edu>
References: <C3CE4BCC.8F31%usha_narayanan@fuhsd.org><52294.130.85.83.224.1202268183.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><001e01c868c8$49636de0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75><49507.130.85.83.224.1202328350.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><007e01c86927$0ca72220$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75><50639.138.88.30.77.1202391909.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><001801c869b3$01219660$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
	<9A537A75-618C-402D-8F6E-EDEA8C0DF840@umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F02F33CB7@MAIL.cal.local>

 

Dear Assessment Listserv Members,

It is with great interest that we have been following this discussion regarding one of our assessments, BEST Plus, and its use for oral proficiency meaurement on initial placement and learner progress. 

As other assessments have been brought into the discussion, we would like to provide the following clarification, taken verbatim from the DLIELC Website: http://www.dlielc.org/testing/ALCPT.html <http://www.dlielc.org/testing/ALCPT.html>  : "DLIELC conducts English language proficiency testing using the Oral Proficiency Interview (OPI) <outbind://86/opi_test.html> , a face-to-face or telephonic interview, and the English Comprehension Level (ECL) <outbind://86/ecl_test.html> test, a multiple choice test of listening and reading comprehension. (The ECL test is provided to authorized US Government users only.) DLIELC also makes available the American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT) <outbind://86/ALCPT.html>  for English language programs conducted outside of DLIELC. Achievement testing of American Language Course (ALC) objectives is conducted using book quizzes and performance tests, which can be obtained with the course materials." 

According to the April 2007 edition of the Handbook for the American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT): "The most important consideration under the general topic of test security is test compromise. One of the easiest ways to compromise any test is through its inappropriate use." Given the definitions above, there are many reasons to question the appropriateness of using any of the above mentioned tests with the adult ESL population in the U.S.

Currently, BEST Plus is the only assessment developed specifically for use with adult English language learners in educational programs, which simultaneously measures adults' listening and speaking skills. As the BEST Plus Level Gain study shows ( http://www.cal.org/resources/digest/levelgain.html ), more hours equals more gains, whether that be during one academic year (intensity of instruction) or over an adult's lifetime (persistence as a learner). Furthermore, this study also shows that not only is BEST Plus appropriate for initial placement, but it is also a good measure of student progress. In many ways, BEST Plus brings the knowledge and design of other oral proficiency instruments to the field of adult ESL in a highly accessible manner. Test administrations are relatively inexpensive when compared to the high cost of other oral proficiency assessments, the results accurate and immediate, and for the first time, instructors are able to confirm many of their "gut instinct" and "handshake" evaluations based on their expertise and familiarity with the adult ESL population in a standardized manner that is scored by a common rubric.

In regard to test administrator training, another advantage to BEST Plus is that ESL instructors are able to engage in professional development in the area of proficiency assessment. Across the country, responses to BEST Plus training are overwhelmingly positive. Our core of trainers does fantastic work to educate practitioners about the differences between being a good teacher and being a good standardized test administrator, in addition to training test administrators to administer and score BEST Plus. Furthermore, there are several opportunities for previously trained test administrators to recalibrate their scoring accuracy through the use of the Scoring Refresher Toolkit within their local programs and states. In this way, programs can confirm their inter-rater reliability, as CAL has also done during the development and design of BEST Plus. We would encourage anyone interested in finding out more about the design of BEST Plus and its high rate of inter-rater reliability to read the BEST Plus Technical Manual.

Finally, we hope that programs using BEST Plus continue to see the benefits of providing adults ESL learners with data regarding their oral proficiency level and progress. Particularly adults with many commitments need this type of information offered at their convenience locally by their service providers. By knowing their levels, program directors and instructors can to continue to make instructional and programatic decisions based on learner needs and to assist the learners in their own educational goal setting.

Michelle M. Ueland

Adult ESL Assessments

Center for Applied Linguistics


________________________________

	From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
	Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:27 PM
	To: The Assessment Discussion List
	Subject: [Assessment 1157] Re: Observation checklist
	
	
	Ted and all, 

	I imagine others would like to have access to the ALCPT information as well.

	I have also given the OPI, not as a certified interviewer but with a lot of training in its use.  I use it  as part of information gathering in reviewing programs overseas, to see what various levels of instruction correspond to in proficiency terms. I haven't used it with adult ESL population.  Like Mary Margaret, I have found that it takes about the same amount of time.  

	Do others have the same concerns about the BEST Plus?

	Jodi

	On Feb 7, 2008, at 12:58 PM, Ted Klein wrote:

		Jodi,
		 
		My wife, Mary Margaret, was a certified OPI interviewer at DLI. She says that the average interview was 20 minutes. This depends on the interviewee's level. Two people interview. The higher the level, the longer the test. It's a really good test. The bad news is that there is/was something like a 40% failure rate for certification of interviewer among instructors and staff. Some of these people were pretty sharp, but doing it is an art and a science. There is no question the OPI is the state-of-the-art. Even experienced interviewers get frequent tune-ups. I believe that the OPI scoring system with the + indicating 60% of the next higher level COULD be simplified and adapted to adult education. However, if progress has to be shown as often as now, real proficiency doesn't change that fast and could cost programs $ when they submit their paperwork.  IF it were done after maybe 120 class hours, there may be significant changes.
		 
		Although I got the training, I bribe other people to do the BEST Plus on my students, including Mary Margaret! I think that it's fine for placement, but really doesn't work for "progress" for a number of reasons. Even when people are trained to use it properly, there is enormous difference, even in how the interviewers expresses themselves orally and make scores. If we have to continue using the BEST tests, another thing that I would like to see is small teams of really good and consistent interviewers that do the tests on all of the students. A weak measurement system is the Achilles Heel in Adult Education.
		 
		I would prefer the use of the American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT). If you will give me an e-mail address that is convenient, I will send you more information on it from my old workshops. It's cheaper, quicker, and quite accurate. I totally agree with you that teacher wisdom is also a good way to determine where and when the student should move on. Unfortunately, many managers don't trust the peasants! There are also several good ways to place people that don't involve their ability to read the ALCPT.
		 
		I put out an Adult Education/ESL Newsletter once in a while. I recently did an article on the OPI, which may answer more of the questions. Here it is:
		 
		 
		Adult Education/ESL News Letter; the Federal Oral Proficiency Interview   Jan. 8, 2008    Ted Klein
		 
		For many years the Foreign Service Institute (FSI) of the United States conducted interviews of foreign language proficiency to measure the understanding and production of languages acquired by their staff. This test was also used by some other federal agencies and was adapted by some civilian language programs as a measure of their graduates. This test expressed performance using scores ranging from zero to five. For decades it was the best game in town. The problem is that both the interview techniques and scoring systems in the FSI exam were not as objective as needed for some persons, whose jobs required very specific scores that would be important to accomplishment of their missions.
		 
		Language proficiency testing needs have always depended on the terminal objectives of the students. In most cases, a well-designed comprehension test is adequate and may be used for language class placement, graduation criteria, determination of readiness for certain jobs, training, or education, etc. During my twenty years with the Defense Language Institute English Language Center, all students were tested with the English Comprehension Level (ECL) test, which was developed as an overall measure of listening and reading skills. This test was developed and maintained by individuals whose primary expertise was in valid measurement procedures assisted by a team of persons who developed multiple choice test items that were based more on their language expertise than math. Scores were in a sense arbitrary and didn't represent a "percentage" of anything. However the use of an ECL test to determine readiness for international military personnel from many countries to participate in U.S.military training was considered a very reliable source of measuring English-language readiness. The test measured listening and reading skills and was "loaded" with numerous structural, vocabulary and phonological factors. It was multiple choice and could be administered in an hour to a large group of students. Students went on from DLIELC for training as pilots, staff college attendees, electronics specialists, medical personnel, etc. and enjoyed a very low failure rate due to language factors. Often, the comprehension scores tended to reflect competence in spoken English, because most of these students had acquired English in a balanced environment of listening, speaking, reading and writing skills. The DLIELC program itself was fairly uniform in which all American Language Course materials were systematically provided for specific lengths of time to teaching staff trained to use specific methodologies. DLIELC students normally start their training in their home countries and later go to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio to finish general English when their ECL scores meet predetermined criteria to continue to continue on to study specialized terminology.
		 
		In the 1980's a gentleman from the Central Intelligence Agency was tasked with the production of a more objective oral language measurement system than the FSI exam, with truly meaningful scores and criteria. He accomplished that mission and the new Oral Proficiency Interview (OPI) examination was designed. That's the good news! The bad news is that it is both an art and a science to administer. A copy of the criteria and rating factors is below. It can be found at the DLIELC website at http://www.dlielc.org/testing/opi_profile.html <http://www.dlielc.org/testing/opi_profile.html>   This OPI took care of the majority of the problems with the older FSI exam, including a very tight and variable interview system in which persons were taken to their highest level of oral communication. Both listening and speaking skills receive a score. The chart below reflects whole number judgments with a performance-based description of what the person being tested can do with the language. The problem is that even after two weeks of training persons to administer the test, there is a rather high failure rate among tester candidates. At one time potential interviewer failures rates were as high as 40%. Tests are administered by pairs of persons who have to agree on a score. I have seen persons with graduate degrees in linguistics fail to become certified interviewers and persons with much less technical expertise succeed and become very competent certified interviewers. The OPI is now used in numerous programs throughout the military, intelligence and diplomatic communities. It is NOT used in place of other valid testing instruments. It is reserved as a supplement for persons in which a known language production level is required. This may include persons who will be air traffic controllers or pilots in which verbal communication skills can be critical.
		 
		The ROTC programs at the University of Puerto Rico require OPI scores for their cadets who become officers in the U.S. military establishment. They also have required ECL scores, and candidates must also be verbally competent in spoken English to get their commissions and succeed in adequate communication for their jobs in the military. The required score to enroll in the ROTC program is an ECL of 75 and an OPI score of 2/1+. One year later the required ECL score is 80 with a 2/2 OPI. To be commissioned in the  U.S. Military the required ECL is 90 and the required OPI is 2+/2. The first number (2+) reflects listening comprehension and the second number reflects speaking ability. When we include the + (plus) designation, this means that the candidate performs at the next higher level at least 60% of the time. Therefore, if we go from 0 (no competence) to five (educated native speaker competence) there are eleven possible levels including the pluses. The difficult part for most interviewers is reaching the candidates' real levels, measuring objectively, and having each interview so different from the last one that the possibility of compromise through information sharing is very unlikely. An ECL score of 90 is equivalent to a TOEFL score of 550, which is adequate for an international student to get into many American universities. The American Language Course Proficiency Test (ALCPT) is made from expired ECL tests and can be made available to civilian institutions.
		 
		Why am I telling you about all of this? I was in management work at DLIELC when the OPI system was introduced and never had reason to become a certified interviewer. However, what I find exciting is that the OPI Rating Factor Grid below describes the natural sequence in which our ESL students acquire English. It is a recapitulation of the entire never-ending process of getting a new language. I'm guessing that average competent foreign language majors in a good university would graduate with a 3/3 OPI score in their target languages. The numbers in the OPI can only hint at how long and complicated a process we have to go through to really be truly functional in a second language. For travelling or living in another country for a while, 2/1+ is a very reasonable goal. The chart should give ESL instructors strong insight into both teaching objectives and what their students are going through.  
		 
		There is a short general article on my website about language testing at
		 http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/lang_tests.html <http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/lang_tests.html>   
		 
		 
		Ted

		 

		       Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
		  Independent Consultant in Language
		         and Intercultural Training
		              14456 Agarita Road
		          Austin, Texas 78734-2009
		             Phone:512-266-1801
		              taklein at austin.rr.com        
		            www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-esl.com/>      
		             

		 

		 

		 

		 

		OPI  RATING  FACTOR  GRID
		

Interactive Comprehension


Structural Control  Texts Produced

Lexical Control

Delivery

Sociolinguistic Competence

Global Tasks and Functions

0+
The individual understands a number of short, memorized utterances in areas of immediate needs; frequent, long pauses and repeated requests for repetition.  
No control. Can only use memorized structures. 
Individual words and phrases.
Memorized words and phrases related to immediate survival needs.
Even in memorized speech, stress, intonation, tone usually quite faulty.
Severely limited.  Any knowledge of cultural appropriateness has a nonlinguistic source
Can make statements and ask questions using memorized material.
1
A native speaker must often use slowed speech, repetition, paraphrase, or a combination of these to be understood by this individual.  Misunderstandings are frequent, but the individual is able to ask for help and to verify comprehension of native speech in face-to-face interaction. 
Structural accuracy is random or severely limited.  Almost every utterance has errors in basic structures.  Time concepts are vague.  Can formulate some questions.  
Discrete sentences.
Very limited.  Covers courtesy expressions, introductions, identification, personal and accommodation needs, daily routine.
Often speaks with great difficulty. Pronunciation, stress, intonation generally poor.
Uses greetings and courtesy expressions.  Can interact with native speakers used to dealing with non-natives.
Can create sentences; begin, maintain, and close short conversations by asking and answering simple questions; satisfy simple daily needs.
2
The individual can get the gist of most everyday conversations, but has some difficulty understanding native speakers in situations that require a specialized or sophisticated knowledge.  (May require a native speaker to adjust to his/her limitations in some way).  
Discourse is minimally cohesive.  Grammatical structures are usually not very elaborate and not thoroughly controlled; errors are frequent.  Simple structure and basic grammatical relations are typically controlled.  
Full paragraphs.
Sufficient to discuss high frequency concrete topics such as work, family, personal background and interests, travel, current events.  Imprecise for less common topics.
Speaks with confidence but not facility.  Can usually be understood by those not used to dealing with non-natives.
Satisfies routine social demands and limited work requirements.  Can interact with native speakers not used to dealing with non-natives; native speakers may have to adjust to limitations.
Can describe people, places, and things; narrate current, past, and future activities in full paragraphs; state facts; give instructions or directions; ask and answer questions in the work place; deal with non-routine daily situations.
3
In face-to-face conversation with natives speaking the standard dialect at a normal rate of speech, comprehension is quite complete.  Although cultural references, proverbs, and the implications of nuances and idiom may not be fully understood, the individual can easily repair the conversation.  
Effectively combines structure and vocabulary to convey meaning. Discourse is cohesive.  Use of structural devices is flexible and elaborate.  Errors occur in low frequency and highly complex structures; but structural inaccuracy rarely causes misunderstanding.  
Extended discourse.
Broad enough for effective formal and informal conversations on practical, social, and professional topics.  Can convey abstract concepts.
Speaks readily and fills pauses suitably.  Pronunciation may be obviously foreign. Flaws in stress, intonation, pitch rarely disturb the native speaker.
Uses cultural references.  When errors are made, can easily repair the conversation.
Can converse extensively in formal and informal situations; discuss abstract topics; support opinions; hypothesize; deal with unfamiliar topics and situations; clarify points.  
4
Can understand native speakers of the standard and other major dialects in  essentially any face-to-face interaction.  Can understand the details and ramifications of concepts that are culturally or conceptually different from his/her own.  Understands shifts of both subject matter and tone.  
Organizes discourse well, using appropriate rhetorical devices and high level discourse structures. 
Speeches, lectures, debates, 
conference discussions.
Precise for representational purposes within personal and professional experience.  Can elaborate concepts freely; choose appropriate words to convey nuances of meaning.
Speaks effortlessly and smoothly, but would seldom be perceived as a native speaker.
Uses and understands details and ramifications of target cultural references. Can set and shift the tone of exchanges with a variety of native speakers.
Can tailor language to fit the audience; counsel; persuade; represent an official point of view; negotiate; advocate a position at length; interpret informally.
5
(No gaps in comprehension, including all details and nuances.)
Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.  
All texts controlled by a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.
Breadth of vocabulary and idiom equivalent to that of a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.
Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker of a standard dialect.
Speech reflects the cultural standards of country where language is natively spoken.
Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.
		DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03 (Reverse)
		



OPI  PERFORMANCE  PROFILE

RATERS
DATE
Check One:
C
S
ENTRY
Mid

Exit

SCN/TEL OPI CODE
RANK/NAME
CY
GRAD DATE
SET CODE
TEACHER/ROOM NO.
VERIFICATION

Interactive Comprehension


Structural Control / Texts Produced

Lexical Control

Delivery

Sociolinguistic Competence

Global Tasks and Functions

		    DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03

		 

		 

		 

		                                                
		 ----- Original Message ----- 
		From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
		To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
		Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:45 AM
		Subject: [Assessment 1149] Re: Observation checklist

		Ted,
		
		Did you use an oral proficiency interview at the Defense Language
		Institute?  If so, how log did it take to administer to each student?  I
		think time is a real barrier to most adult ESL/ESOL programs.  Thus, they
		use tests that can be administered to students as a group and easily
		evaluated.
		
		For some college programs for international students, a whole range of
		tests are used for placement, including a writing sample, a reading test,
		and an oral interview.  Clearly that's more possible with smaller numbers
		of students who are also paying for the classes.
		
		What do you think is needed in the way of tests?  In Passing the Torch,
		Forrest and I point to assessment as a major issue facing all the colleges
		we studied.  We recommend the development of a test of all four skills
		that, if possible, could be administered and scored in a reasonable amount
		of time.
		
		Have you tried the BEST Plus test?  What has been your experience with
		that test?
		
		I agree that for placement at literacy levels, a simple test developed by
		a program might be sufficient.
		
		I also think that for progress through the levels, student achievement in
		the previous class, as judged by the instructor ("professional wisdom"),
		is still the best determiner of whether a student is ready to go to the
		next level.
		
		Jodi
		
		
		> Jodi,
		>
		> Same here! As long as the BEST Test is used to show gains, I'm afraid that
		> there isn't much chance that REAL gains could be charted and compared. It
		> is used too often to measure progress and is not as good for that purpose
		> as one would hope. Really valid proficiency tests are the only way to
		> prove the point. Achievement tests don't tell much in terms of overall
		> progress. I would also guess that it would take a minimum of 120 hours of
		> solid training to have a measureable level with any test that one could
		> play numbers with. Other factors including attendance, etc. would have to
		> be factored in. Adults have families and jobs in the way of total
		> dedication to attendance. Also, one would have to have a test in which
		> human judgment would play a small role. The BEST is fine for its original
		> purpose, which was to place persons with others at their same levels of
		> communication. Good measurement is the only way to prove anything. I often
		> rely on plain old gut instincts to figure how things are really going. I
		> know that's not very scientific.
		>
		> Cheers,  Ted
		> www.tedklein-ESL.com
		>
		>
		> ----- Original Message -----
		> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
		> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
		> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:05 PM
		> Subject: [Assessment 1138] Re: Observation checklist
		>
		>
		> Hi, Ted.  Glad to make contact again.
		>
		> I definitely agree that smaller classes are more likely to bring learner
		> gains, especially in language, since students will have more opportunity
		> to speak when there are fewer students.  I didn't know about the DLI
		> policy, but it is a good one.  The problem with adult ESL classes, I fear,
		> is that there is such limited money available that programs would find it
		> difficult to keep class size to these numbers.
		>
		> Has anyone tried to reduce class size and chart the learning gains?  If
		> so, please share with us all.  It might be that this would be a good
		> investment.  If students in smaller classes make faster gains, then there
		> would be more spaces available as these students transitioned to other
		> classes or the workforce.
		>
		> Jodi
		>
		> Hi Jodi,
		>>
		>> Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times in the
		>> past,
		>> I think at least once when you visited the Defense Language Institute
		>> English Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I
		>> mention
		>> DLI is that it represents a language program with little leeway to fail.
		>> I
		>> spent 20 years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is to train
		>> allied and friendly military personnel worldwide in general and
		>> specialized English. Most students start ESL in their home countries
		>> with
		>> DLIELC personnel advising, and in some cases teaching, in these overseas
		>> military language centers. It may still be the largest language program
		>> in
		>> the world. Students after reaching certain levels go to Lackland Air
		>> Force
		>> Base in San Antonio, complete their general English, usually go through
		>> specialized terminology and then on to whatever training their country
		>> needs with the U.S. military. Students have run the full gamut from
		>> recruits and NCO's up to generals and admirals. This is a very tightly
		>> organized "well-packaged" language program with predictable training
		>> times
		>> and results.
		>>
		>> Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb while I was at
		>> at DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum. This was
		>> rarely broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters' bean
		>> counter would calculate that if a mere two or three students could be
		>> added to a class, voila, look at the money we would save! This money
		>> came
		>> both from foreign governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue and then
		>> try
		>> it, I believe several times over the years. However, in an organization
		>> that has a very effective testing system; both achievement and
		>> proficiency, it was soon noticed that the scores were going down, just
		>> enough so that they could prove that no money was being saved on teacher
		>> salaries and other expenses. I spent three years with the Royal Thai
		>> Navy
		>> for DLI as language training advisor and remember having to twist arms
		>> with the RTN Navy Education Department with the same problem. They
		>> wanted
		>> 15 in a class.
		>>
		>> Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during my last
		>> eight years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes have
		>> consistently been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an
		>> organization is stuck with a low budget, make the hours of training per
		>> week lower, but keep the class sizes within 10 or so students. Fewer
		>> hours
		>> of really effective training are certainly better than large classes
		>> where
		>> the student attention level and collegiality are reduced. I remember
		>> Mary
		>> Finocchiaro saying years ago that she didn't care how many students were
		>> in her classroom, she would teach them! Unfortunately, most of us just
		>> aren't THAT dynamic.
		>>
		>> Cheers,  Ted
		>> www.tedklein-ESL.com
		>>
		>>
		>>
		>> ----- Original Message -----
		>> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
		>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
		>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM
		>> Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist
		>>
		>>
		>> Usha,
		>>
		>> I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
		>> experience that with more than 10 students, learning decreases?  If so,
		>> how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be
		>> interested
		>> in ways to decrease class size.
		>>
		>> It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
		>> constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more
		>> important
		>> to involve them in activities in which all get to participate, which
		>> means
		>> less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small classes
		>> need that.
		>>
		>> What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?
		>>
		>> You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop out of
		>> classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any of you
		>> keep
		>> records of your students that would identify those who do return?  Do
		>> you
		>> have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning English
		>> outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know of any
		>> research about adult English Language Learners in this area, but there
		>> is
		>> an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State
		>> University
		>> following adult literacy level students for several years.  They have
		>> identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside of the
		>> classroom and also that some of these learners come back to classes
		>> after
		>> being out of them for some time.
		>>
		>> Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of you been
		>> able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of these
		>> services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have been most
		>> effective? If you teach in a community college, have your students had
		>> access to the various support services provided to other students?
		>>
		>> Several of you have talked about the differences in progress made by
		>> students with more advanced education and those who are at literacy
		>> level.
		>>  Because literacy level students take longer in making progress, most
		>> programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and
		>> literate
		>> beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and literacy
		>> will
		>> need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to talk about
		>> what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about
		>> persistence
		>> of literacy level students and their learning gains.
		>>
		>> Students with advanced education in their own language may be able to
		>> have
		>> a condensed program since they are already experienced as students and
		>> often have high motivation to get through English so that they can take
		>> courses related to their previous or future career.  City College of San
		>> Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters worth of
		>> work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer something along
		>> these lines?
		>>
		>> Jodi
		>>
		>>
		>>> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked the tool
		>>> that
		>>> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope that it
		>>> is
		>>> not
		>>> something that has already been asked and answered.
		>>>
		>>> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of our ESL
		>>> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal constraints
		>>> and
		>>> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a positive
		>>> to
		>>> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we expect to see
		>>> more
		>>> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the numbers.
		>>>
		>>> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy programs
		>>> because of many socio-economic factors.
		>>>
		>>> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing market (in
		>>> past
		>>> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to stay in
		>>> one
		>>> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen more in
		>>> people
		>>> who do not have high levels of education from their native country).
		>>>
		>>> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from their
		>>> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some kind of
		>>> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs, go in and
		>>> out
		>>> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of various
		>>> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and have no time
		>>> to
		>>> practice.
		>>>
		>>> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in educational
		>>> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
		>>> availability
		>>> of  community resources.
		>>>
		>>> Usha Narayanan
		>>> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
		>>> California
		>>> 408-522-2737
		>>>
		>>>
		>>> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
		>>>
		>>>> Marie,
		>>>>
		>>>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and out of the
		>>>> U.S.A.
		>>>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc. in ESL.
		>>>> It
		>>>> is
		>>>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that I'm
		>>>> back
		>>>> in the
		>>>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the Defense
		>>>> Language
		>>>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching immigrants part
		>>>> time for
		>>>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin
		>>>> Community
		>>>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what language
		>>>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to work at a
		>>>> higher
		>>>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I
		>>>> apply
		>>>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy
		>>>> traps."
		>>>> I
		>>>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
		>>>> interested and
		>>>> it is published on my website at
		>>>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel absolutely free
		>>>> to use
		>>>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank you very
		>>>> much for
		>>>> the input. Questions are welcome.
		>>>>
		>>>> Cheers,   Ted
		>>>>
		>>>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
		>>>>   Independent Consultant in Language
		>>>>          and Intercultural Training
		>>>>               14456 Agarita Road
		>>>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
		>>>>              Phone:512-266-1801
		>>>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
		>>>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
		>>>>
		>>>>
		>>>> ----- Original Message -----
		>>>>>
		>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
		>>>>>
		>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
		>>>>>
		>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
		>>>>>
		>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>> Hi  Ted,
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it
		>>>>> yourself?
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try
		>>>>> to
		>>>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do others
		>>>>> you
		>>>>> work with?
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the
		>>>>> students
		>>>>> advance?
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>> Marie
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
		>>>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
		>>>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
		>>>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
		>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
		>>>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
		>>>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> Marie,
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> Ted
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
		>>>>>>  NO
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>    supportive personality?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>    other and the instructor?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>     target language  proficiency?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>     than push them?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>     exaggerated speech?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>     results?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> ---- Original Message -----
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> Hello  everyone,
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on  regarding
		>>>>>>> your
		>>>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??  I was
		>>>>>>> very
		>>>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
		>>>>>>> that
		>>>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
		>>>>>>> intensity
		>>>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
		>>>>>>> opportunities
		>>>>>>> for  professional development.
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit the ESL
		>>>>>>> student
		>>>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> Thanks!
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> Marie  Cora
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> Marie  Cora
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
		>>>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> -------------------------------
		>>>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
		>>>>>>> Assessment mailing list
		>>>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
		>>>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
		>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
		>>>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>> -------------------------------
		>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
		>>>>> Assessment mailing list
		>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
		>>>>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings, please go to
		>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
		>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
		>>>>
		>>>>
		>>>> -------------------------------
		>>>> National Institute for Literacy
		>>>> Assessment mailing list
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		>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
		>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
		>>>> Email delivered to usha_narayanan at fuhsd.org
		>>>
		>>>
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		>>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
		>>>
		>>
		>>
		>> --
		>> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
		>> Professor, Education Department
		>> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
		>> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in
		>> ESOL/Bilingual
		>> Education
		>> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
		>> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
		>> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
		>> email: crandall at umbc.edu
		>> www.umbc.edu/llc/
		>> www.umbc.edu/esol/
		>> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
		>>
		>>
		>>
		>> -------------------------------
		>> National Institute for Literacy
		>> Assessment mailing list
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		>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
		>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
		>> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
		>> National Institute for Literacy
		>> Assessment mailing list
		>> Assessment at nifl.gov
		>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
		>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
		>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
		>>
		>
		>
		> --
		> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
		> Professor, Education Department
		> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
		> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
		> Education
		> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
		> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
		> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
		> email: crandall at umbc.edu
		> www.umbc.edu/llc/
		> www.umbc.edu/esol/
		> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
		>
		>
		>
		> -------------------------------
		> National Institute for Literacy
		> Assessment mailing list
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		> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
		> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
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		> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
		> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
		> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
		>
		
		
		-- 
		JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
		Professor, Education Department
		Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
		Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
		Education
		University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
		1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
		ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
		email: crandall at umbc.edu
		www.umbc.edu/llc/
		www.umbc.edu/esol/
		www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
		
		
		
		-------------------------------
		National Institute for Literacy
		Assessment mailing list
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		To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
		Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com 
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		To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
		Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu


	
	JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
	Professor and Director
	Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
	Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
	University of Maryland Baltimore County
	1000 Hilltop Circle
	Baltimore, MD 21250
	tel:  410-455-2313
	fax: 410-455-8947
	eml: crandall at umbc.edu





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From Jonathan.Cohen at dol.state.nj.us  Thu Feb  7 16:25:53 2008
From: Jonathan.Cohen at dol.state.nj.us (Cohen, Jonathan)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 16:25:53 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1159] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F02F33CB7@MAIL.cal.local>
References: <C3CE4BCC.8F31%usha_narayanan@fuhsd.org><52294.130.85.83.224.1202268183.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><001e01c868c8$49636de0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75><49507.130.85.83.224.1202328350.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><007e01c86927$0ca72220$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75><50639.138.88.30.77.1202391909.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><001801c869b3$01219660$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75><9A537A75-618C-402D-8F6E-EDEA8C0DF840@umbc.edu>
	<7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F02F33CB7@MAIL.cal.local>
Message-ID: <63733377F5D386419FE59FCB038725EF0B544FEE@EXCHANGE.njdol.ad.dol>

Good reply.

Jon

 

Jonathan Cohen

Workforce Readiness & Literacy

NJ Dept. of Labor & Workforce Development 

 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Michelle Ueland
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 4:10 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1158] Re: Observation checklist

 

 

Dear Assessment Listserv Members,

It is with great interest that we have been following this discussion regarding one of our assessments, BEST Plus, and its use for oral proficiency meaurement on initial placement and learner progress. 

As other assessments have been brought into the discussion, we would like to provide the following clarification, taken verbatim from the DLIELC Website: http://www.dlielc.org/testing/ALCPT.html <http://www.dlielc.org/testing/ALCPT.html>  : "DLIELC conducts English language proficiency testing using the Oral Proficiency Interview (OPI) <outbind://86/opi_test.html> , a face-to-face or telephonic interview, and the English Comprehension Level (ECL) <outbind://86/ecl_test.html> test, a multiple choice test of listening and reading comprehension. (The ECL test is provided to authorized US Government users only.) DLIELC also makes available the American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT) <outbind://86/ALCPT.html>  for English language programs conducted outside of DLIELC. Achievement testing of American Language Course (ALC) objectives is conducted using book quizzes and performance tests, which can be obtained with the course materials." 

According to the April 2007 edition of the Handbook for the American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT): "The most important consideration under the general topic of test security is test compromise. One of the easiest ways to compromise any test is through its inappropriate use." Given the definitions above, there are many reasons to question the appropriateness of using any of the above mentioned tests with the adult ESL population in the U.S.

Currently, BEST Plus is the only assessment developed specifically for use with adult English language learners in educational programs, which simultaneously measures adults' listening and speaking skills. As the BEST Plus Level Gain study shows ( http://www.cal.org/resources/digest/levelgain.html ), more hours equals more gains, whether that be during one academic year (intensity of instruction) or over an adult's lifetime (persistence as a learner). Furthermore, this study also shows that not only is BEST Plus appropriate for initial placement, but it is also a good measure of student progress. In many ways, BEST Plus brings the knowledge and design of other oral proficiency instruments to the field of adult ESL in a highly accessible manner. Test administrations are relatively inexpensive when compared to the high cost of other oral proficiency assessments, the results accurate and immediate, and for the first time, instructors are able to confirm many of their "gut instinct" and "handshake" evaluations based on their expertise and familiarity with the adult ESL population in a standardized manner that is scored by a common rubric.

In regard to test administrator training, another advantage to BEST Plus is that ESL instructors are able to engage in professional development in the area of proficiency assessment. Across the country, responses to BEST Plus training are overwhelmingly positive. Our core of trainers does fantastic work to educate practitioners about the differences between being a good teacher and being a good standardized test administrator, in addition to training test administrators to administer and score BEST Plus. Furthermore, there are several opportunities for previously trained test administrators to recalibrate their scoring accuracy through the use of the Scoring Refresher Toolkit within their local programs and states. In this way, programs can confirm their inter-rater reliability, as CAL has also done during the development and design of BEST Plus. We would encourage anyone interested in finding out more about the design of BEST Plus and its high rate of inter-rater reliability to read the BEST Plus Technical Manual.

Finally, we hope that programs using BEST Plus continue to see the benefits of providing adults ESL learners with data regarding their oral proficiency level and progress. Particularly adults with many commitments need this type of information offered at their convenience locally by their service providers. By knowing their levels, program directors and instructors can to continue to make instructional and programatic decisions based on learner needs and to assist the learners in their own educational goal setting.

Michelle M. Ueland

Adult ESL Assessments

Center for Applied Linguistics

	 

	
________________________________


	From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
	Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:27 PM
	To: The Assessment Discussion List
	Subject: [Assessment 1157] Re: Observation checklist

	Ted and all, 

	 

	I imagine others would like to have access to the ALCPT information as well.

	 

	I have also given the OPI, not as a certified interviewer but with a lot of training in its use.  I use it  as part of information gathering in reviewing programs overseas, to see what various levels of instruction correspond to in proficiency terms. I haven't used it with adult ESL population.  Like Mary Margaret, I have found that it takes about the same amount of time.  

	 

	Do others have the same concerns about the BEST Plus?

	 

	Jodi

	 

	On Feb 7, 2008, at 12:58 PM, Ted Klein wrote:

		Jodi,

		 

		My wife, Mary Margaret, was a certified OPI interviewer at DLI. She says that the average interview was 20 minutes. This depends on the interviewee's level. Two people interview. The higher the level, the longer the test. It's a really good test. The bad news is that there is/was something like a 40% failure rate for certification of interviewer among instructors and staff. Some of these people were pretty sharp, but doing it is an art and a science. There is no question the OPI is the state-of-the-art. Even experienced interviewers get frequent tune-ups. I believe that the OPI scoring system with the + indicating 60% of the next higher level COULD be simplified and adapted to adult education. However, if progress has to be shown as often as now, real proficiency doesn't change that fast and could cost programs $ when they submit their paperwork.  IF it were done after maybe 120 class hours, there may be significant changes.

		 

		Although I got the training, I bribe other people to do the BEST Plus on my students, including Mary Margaret! I think that it's fine for placement, but really doesn't work for "progress" for a number of reasons. Even when people are trained to use it properly, there is enormous difference, even in how the interviewers expresses themselves orally and make scores. If we have to continue using the BEST tests, another thing that I would like to see is small teams of really good and consistent interviewers that do the tests on all of the students. A weak measurement system is the Achilles Heel in Adult Education.

		 

		I would prefer the use of the American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT). If you will give me an e-mail address that is convenient, I will send you more information on it from my old workshops. It's cheaper, quicker, and quite accurate. I totally agree with you that teacher wisdom is also a good way to determine where and when the student should move on. Unfortunately, many managers don't trust the peasants! There are also several good ways to place people that don't involve their ability to read the ALCPT.

		 

		I put out an Adult Education/ESL Newsletter once in a while. I recently did an article on the OPI, which may answer more of the questions. Here it is:

		 

		 

		Adult Education/ESL News Letter; the Federal Oral Proficiency Interview   Jan. 8, 2008    Ted Klein

		 

		For many years the Foreign Service Institute (FSI) of the United States conducted interviews of foreign language proficiency to measure the understanding and production of languages acquired by their staff. This test was also used by some other federal agencies and was adapted by some civilian language programs as a measure of their graduates. This test expressed performance using scores ranging from zero to five. For decades it was the best game in town. The problem is that both the interview techniques and scoring systems in the FSI exam were not as objective as needed for some persons, whose jobs required very specific scores that would be important to accomplishment of their missions.

		 

		Language proficiency testing needs have always depended on the terminal objectives of the students. In most cases, a well-designed comprehension test is adequate and may be used for language class placement, graduation criteria, determination of readiness for certain jobs, training, or education, etc. During my twenty years with the Defense Language Institute English Language Center, all students were tested with the English Comprehension Level (ECL) test, which was developed as an overall measure of listening and reading skills. This test was developed and maintained by individuals whose primary expertise was in valid measurement procedures assisted by a team of persons who developed multiple choice test items that were based more on their language expertise than math. Scores were in a sense arbitrary and didn't represent a "percentage" of anything. However the use of an ECL test to determine readiness for international military personnel from many countries to participate in U.S.military training was considered a very reliable source of measuring English-language readiness. The test measured listening and reading skills and was "loaded" with numerous structural, vocabulary and phonological factors. It was multiple choice and could be administered in an hour to a large group of students. Students went on from DLIELC for training as pilots, staff college attendees, electronics specialists, medical personnel, etc. and enjoyed a very low failure rate due to language factors. Often, the comprehension scores tended to reflect competence in spoken English, because most of these students had acquired English in a balanced environment of listening, speaking, reading and writing skills. The DLIELC program itself was fairly uniform in which all American Language Course materials were systematically provided for specific lengths of time to teaching staff trained to use specific methodologies. DLIELC students normally start their training in their home countries and later go to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio to finish general English when their ECL scores meet predetermined criteria to continue to continue on to study specialized terminology.

		 

		In the 1980's a gentleman from the Central Intelligence Agency was tasked with the production of a more objective oral language measurement system than the FSI exam, with truly meaningful scores and criteria. He accomplished that mission and the new Oral Proficiency Interview (OPI) examination was designed. That's the good news! The bad news is that it is both an art and a science to administer. A copy of the criteria and rating factors is below. It can be found at the DLIELC website at http://www.dlielc.org/testing/opi_profile.html <http://www.dlielc.org/testing/opi_profile.html>   This OPI took care of the majority of the problems with the older FSI exam, including a very tight and variable interview system in which persons were taken to their highest level of oral communication. Both listening and speaking skills receive a score. The chart below reflects whole number judgments with a performance-based description of what the person being tested can do with the language. The problem is that even after two weeks of training persons to administer the test, there is a rather high failure rate among tester candidates. At one time potential interviewer failures rates were as high as 40%. Tests are administered by pairs of persons who have to agree on a score. I have seen persons with graduate degrees in linguistics fail to become certified interviewers and persons with much less technical expertise succeed and become very competent certified interviewers. The OPI is now used in numerous programs throughout the military, intelligence and diplomatic communities. It is NOT used in place of other valid testing instruments. It is reserved as a supplement for persons in which a known language production level is required. This may include persons who will be air traffic controllers or pilots in which verbal communication skills can be critical.

		 

		The ROTC programs at the University of Puerto Rico require OPI scores for their cadets who become officers in the U.S. military establishment. They also have required ECL scores, and candidates must also be verbally competent in spoken English to get their commissions and succeed in adequate communication for their jobs in the military. The required score to enroll in the ROTC program is an ECL of 75 and an OPI score of 2/1+. One year later the required ECL score is 80 with a 2/2 OPI. To be commissioned in the  U.S. Military the required ECL is 90 and the required OPI is 2+/2. The first number (2+) reflects listening comprehension and the second number reflects speaking ability. When we include the + (plus) designation, this means that the candidate performs at the next higher level at least 60% of the time. Therefore, if we go from 0 (no competence) to five (educated native speaker competence) there are eleven possible levels including the pluses. The difficult part for most interviewers is reaching the candidates' real levels, measuring objectively, and having each interview so different from the last one that the possibility of compromise through information sharing is very unlikely. An ECL score of 90 is equivalent to a TOEFL score of 550, which is adequate for an international student to get into many American universities. The American Language Course Proficiency Test (ALCPT) is made from expired ECL tests and can be made available to civilian institutions.

		 

		Why am I telling you about all of this? I was in management work at DLIELC when the OPI system was introduced and never had reason to become a certified interviewer. However, what I find exciting is that the OPI Rating Factor Grid below describes the natural sequence in which our ESL students acquire English. It is a recapitulation of the entire never-ending process of getting a new language. I'm guessing that average competent foreign language majors in a good university would graduate with a 3/3 OPI score in their target languages. The numbers in the OPI can only hint at how long and complicated a process we have to go through to really be truly functional in a second language. For travelling or living in another country for a while, 2/1+ is a very reasonable goal. The chart should give ESL instructors strong insight into both teaching objectives and what their students are going through.  

		 

		There is a short general article on my website about language testing at

		 http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/lang_tests.html <http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/lang_tests.html>   

		 

		 

		Ted

		 

		       Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
		  Independent Consultant in Language
		         and Intercultural Training
		              14456 Agarita Road
		          Austin, Texas 78734-2009
		             Phone:512-266-1801
		              taklein at austin.rr.com        
		            www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-esl.com/>      
		             

		 

		 

		 

		 

		OPI  RATING  FACTOR  GRID

 

Interactive Comprehension


Structural Control  Texts Produced

Lexical Control

Delivery

Sociolinguistic Competence

Global Tasks and Functions

0+

The individual understands a number of short, memorized utterances in areas of immediate needs; frequent, long pauses and repeated requests for repetition.  

No control. Can only use memorized structures. 

Individual words and phrases.

Memorized words and phrases related to immediate survival needs.

Even in memorized speech, stress, intonation, tone usually quite faulty.

Severely limited.  Any knowledge of cultural appropriateness has a nonlinguistic source

Can make statements and ask questions using memorized material.

1

A native speaker must often use slowed speech, repetition, paraphrase, or a combination of these to be understood by this individual.  Misunderstandings are frequent, but the individual is able to ask for help and to verify comprehension of native speech in face-to-face interaction. 

Structural accuracy is random or severely limited.  Almost every utterance has errors in basic structures.  Time concepts are vague.  Can formulate some questions.  

Discrete sentences.

Very limited.  Covers courtesy expressions, introductions, identification, personal and accommodation needs, daily routine.

Often speaks with great difficulty. Pronunciation, stress, intonation generally poor.

Uses greetings and courtesy expressions.  Can interact with native speakers used to dealing with non-natives.

Can create sentences; begin, maintain, and close short conversations by asking and answering simple questions; satisfy simple daily needs.

2

The individual can get the gist of most everyday conversations, but has some difficulty understanding native speakers in situations that require a specialized or sophisticated knowledge.  (May require a native speaker to adjust to his/her limitations in some way).  

Discourse is minimally cohesive.  Grammatical structures are usually not very elaborate and not thoroughly controlled; errors are frequent.  Simple structure and basic grammatical relations are typically controlled.  

Full paragraphs.

Sufficient to discuss high frequency concrete topics such as work, family, personal background and interests, travel, current events.  Imprecise for less common topics.

Speaks with confidence but not facility.  Can usually be understood by those not used to dealing with non-natives.

Satisfies routine social demands and limited work requirements.  Can interact with native speakers not used to dealing with non-natives; native speakers may have to adjust to limitations.

Can describe people, places, and things; narrate current, past, and future activities in full paragraphs; state facts; give instructions or directions; ask and answer questions in the work place; deal with non-routine daily situations.

3

In face-to-face conversation with natives speaking the standard dialect at a normal rate of speech, comprehension is quite complete.  Although cultural references, proverbs, and the implications of nuances and idiom may not be fully understood, the individual can easily repair the conversation.  

Effectively combines structure and vocabulary to convey meaning. Discourse is cohesive.  Use of structural devices is flexible and elaborate.  Errors occur in low frequency and highly complex structures; but structural inaccuracy rarely causes misunderstanding.  

Extended discourse.

Broad enough for effective formal and informal conversations on practical, social, and professional topics.  Can convey abstract concepts.

Speaks readily and fills pauses suitably.  Pronunciation may be obviously foreign. Flaws in stress, intonation, pitch rarely disturb the native speaker.

Uses cultural references.  When errors are made, can easily repair the conversation.

Can converse extensively in formal and informal situations; discuss abstract topics; support opinions; hypothesize; deal with unfamiliar topics and situations; clarify points.  

4

Can understand native speakers of the standard and other major dialects in  essentially any face-to-face interaction.  Can understand the details and ramifications of concepts that are culturally or conceptually different from his/her own.  Understands shifts of both subject matter and tone.  

Organizes discourse well, using appropriate rhetorical devices and high level discourse structures. 

Speeches, lectures, debates, 

conference discussions.

Precise for representational purposes within personal and professional experience.  Can elaborate concepts freely; choose appropriate words to convey nuances of meaning.

Speaks effortlessly and smoothly, but would seldom be perceived as a native speaker.

Uses and understands details and ramifications of target cultural references. Can set and shift the tone of exchanges with a variety of native speakers.

Can tailor language to fit the audience; counsel; persuade; represent an official point of view; negotiate; advocate a position at length; interpret informally.

5

(No gaps in comprehension, including all details and nuances.)

Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.  

All texts controlled by a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.

Breadth of vocabulary and idiom equivalent to that of a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.

Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker of a standard dialect.

Speech reflects the cultural standards of country where language is natively spoken.

Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.

		DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03 (Reverse)


OPI  PERFORMANCE  PROFILE


RATERS

DATE

Check One:

C

S

 

ENTRY

Mid


Exit

 

 

SCN/TEL OPI CODE

RANK/NAME

CY

GRAD DATE

SET CODE

TEACHER/ROOM NO.

VERIFICATION


Interactive Comprehension


Structural Control / Texts Produced

Lexical Control

 

 

 

Delivery

Sociolinguistic Competence

Global Tasks and Functions

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

		    DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03

		 

		 

		 

		                                                

		 ----- Original Message ----- 

		From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>

		To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>

		Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:45 AM

		Subject: [Assessment 1149] Re: Observation checklist

		 

		Ted,
		
		Did you use an oral proficiency interview at the Defense Language
		Institute?  If so, how log did it take to administer to each student?  I
		think time is a real barrier to most adult ESL/ESOL programs.  Thus, they
		use tests that can be administered to students as a group and easily
		evaluated.
		
		For some college programs for international students, a whole range of
		tests are used for placement, including a writing sample, a reading test,
		and an oral interview.  Clearly that's more possible with smaller numbers
		of students who are also paying for the classes.
		
		What do you think is needed in the way of tests?  In Passing the Torch,
		Forrest and I point to assessment as a major issue facing all the colleges
		we studied.  We recommend the development of a test of all four skills
		that, if possible, could be administered and scored in a reasonable amount
		of time.
		
		Have you tried the BEST Plus test?  What has been your experience with
		that test?
		
		I agree that for placement at literacy levels, a simple test developed by
		a program might be sufficient.
		
		I also think that for progress through the levels, student achievement in
		the previous class, as judged by the instructor ("professional wisdom"),
		is still the best determiner of whether a student is ready to go to the
		next level.
		
		Jodi
		
		
		> Jodi,
		>
		> Same here! As long as the BEST Test is used to show gains, I'm afraid that
		> there isn't much chance that REAL gains could be charted and compared. It
		> is used too often to measure progress and is not as good for that purpose
		> as one would hope. Really valid proficiency tests are the only way to
		> prove the point. Achievement tests don't tell much in terms of overall
		> progress. I would also guess that it would take a minimum of 120 hours of
		> solid training to have a measureable level with any test that one could
		> play numbers with. Other factors including attendance, etc. would have to
		> be factored in. Adults have families and jobs in the way of total
		> dedication to attendance. Also, one would have to have a test in which
		> human judgment would play a small role. The BEST is fine for its original
		> purpose, which was to place persons with others at their same levels of
		> communication. Good measurement is the only way to prove anything. I often
		> rely on plain old gut instincts to figure how things are really going. I
		> know that's not very scientific.
		>
		> Cheers,  Ted
		> www.tedklein-ESL.com
		>
		>
		> ----- Original Message -----
		> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
		> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
		> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:05 PM
		> Subject: [Assessment 1138] Re: Observation checklist
		>
		>
		> Hi, Ted.  Glad to make contact again.
		>
		> I definitely agree that smaller classes are more likely to bring learner
		> gains, especially in language, since students will have more opportunity
		> to speak when there are fewer students.  I didn't know about the DLI
		> policy, but it is a good one.  The problem with adult ESL classes, I fear,
		> is that there is such limited money available that programs would find it
		> difficult to keep class size to these numbers.
		>
		> Has anyone tried to reduce class size and chart the learning gains?  If
		> so, please share with us all.  It might be that this would be a good
		> investment.  If students in smaller classes make faster gains, then there
		> would be more spaces available as these students transitioned to other
		> classes or the workforce.
		>
		> Jodi
		>
		> Hi Jodi,
		>>
		>> Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times in the
		>> past,
		>> I think at least once when you visited the Defense Language Institute
		>> English Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I
		>> mention
		>> DLI is that it represents a language program with little leeway to fail.
		>> I
		>> spent 20 years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is to train
		>> allied and friendly military personnel worldwide in general and
		>> specialized English. Most students start ESL in their home countries
		>> with
		>> DLIELC personnel advising, and in some cases teaching, in these overseas
		>> military language centers. It may still be the largest language program
		>> in
		>> the world. Students after reaching certain levels go to Lackland Air
		>> Force
		>> Base in San Antonio, complete their general English, usually go through
		>> specialized terminology and then on to whatever training their country
		>> needs with the U.S. military. Students have run the full gamut from
		>> recruits and NCO's up to generals and admirals. This is a very tightly
		>> organized "well-packaged" language program with predictable training
		>> times
		>> and results.
		>>
		>> Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb while I was at
		>> at DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum. This was
		>> rarely broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters' bean
		>> counter would calculate that if a mere two or three students could be
		>> added to a class, voila, look at the money we would save! This money
		>> came
		>> both from foreign governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue and then
		>> try
		>> it, I believe several times over the years. However, in an organization
		>> that has a very effective testing system; both achievement and
		>> proficiency, it was soon noticed that the scores were going down, just
		>> enough so that they could prove that no money was being saved on teacher
		>> salaries and other expenses. I spent three years with the Royal Thai
		>> Navy
		>> for DLI as language training advisor and remember having to twist arms
		>> with the RTN Navy Education Department with the same problem. They
		>> wanted
		>> 15 in a class.
		>>
		>> Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during my last
		>> eight years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes have
		>> consistently been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an
		>> organization is stuck with a low budget, make the hours of training per
		>> week lower, but keep the class sizes within 10 or so students. Fewer
		>> hours
		>> of really effective training are certainly better than large classes
		>> where
		>> the student attention level and collegiality are reduced. I remember
		>> Mary
		>> Finocchiaro saying years ago that she didn't care how many students were
		>> in her classroom, she would teach them! Unfortunately, most of us just
		>> aren't THAT dynamic.
		>>
		>> Cheers,  Ted
		>> www.tedklein-ESL.com
		>>
		>>
		>>
		>> ----- Original Message -----
		>> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
		>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
		>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM
		>> Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist
		>>
		>>
		>> Usha,
		>>
		>> I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
		>> experience that with more than 10 students, learning decreases?  If so,
		>> how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be
		>> interested
		>> in ways to decrease class size.
		>>
		>> It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
		>> constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more
		>> important
		>> to involve them in activities in which all get to participate, which
		>> means
		>> less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small classes
		>> need that.
		>>
		>> What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?
		>>
		>> You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop out of
		>> classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any of you
		>> keep
		>> records of your students that would identify those who do return?  Do
		>> you
		>> have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning English
		>> outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know of any
		>> research about adult English Language Learners in this area, but there
		>> is
		>> an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State
		>> University
		>> following adult literacy level students for several years.  They have
		>> identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside of the
		>> classroom and also that some of these learners come back to classes
		>> after
		>> being out of them for some time.
		>>
		>> Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of you been
		>> able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of these
		>> services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have been most
		>> effective? If you teach in a community college, have your students had
		>> access to the various support services provided to other students?
		>>
		>> Several of you have talked about the differences in progress made by
		>> students with more advanced education and those who are at literacy
		>> level.
		>>  Because literacy level students take longer in making progress, most
		>> programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and
		>> literate
		>> beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and literacy
		>> will
		>> need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to talk about
		>> what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about
		>> persistence
		>> of literacy level students and their learning gains.
		>>
		>> Students with advanced education in their own language may be able to
		>> have
		>> a condensed program since they are already experienced as students and
		>> often have high motivation to get through English so that they can take
		>> courses related to their previous or future career.  City College of San
		>> Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters worth of
		>> work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer something along
		>> these lines?
		>>
		>> Jodi
		>>
		>>
		>>> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked the tool
		>>> that
		>>> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope that it
		>>> is
		>>> not
		>>> something that has already been asked and answered.
		>>>
		>>> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of our ESL
		>>> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal constraints
		>>> and
		>>> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a positive
		>>> to
		>>> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we expect to see
		>>> more
		>>> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the numbers.
		>>>
		>>> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy programs
		>>> because of many socio-economic factors.
		>>>
		>>> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing market (in
		>>> past
		>>> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to stay in
		>>> one
		>>> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen more in
		>>> people
		>>> who do not have high levels of education from their native country).
		>>>
		>>> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from their
		>>> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some kind of
		>>> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs, go in and
		>>> out
		>>> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of various
		>>> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and have no time
		>>> to
		>>> practice.
		>>>
		>>> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in educational
		>>> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
		>>> availability
		>>> of  community resources.
		>>>
		>>> Usha Narayanan
		>>> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
		>>> California
		>>> 408-522-2737
		>>>
		>>>
		>>> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
		>>>
		>>>> Marie,
		>>>>
		>>>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and out of the
		>>>> U.S.A.
		>>>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc. in ESL.
		>>>> It
		>>>> is
		>>>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that I'm
		>>>> back
		>>>> in the
		>>>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the Defense
		>>>> Language
		>>>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching immigrants part
		>>>> time for
		>>>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin
		>>>> Community
		>>>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what language
		>>>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to work at a
		>>>> higher
		>>>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I
		>>>> apply
		>>>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy
		>>>> traps."
		>>>> I
		>>>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
		>>>> interested and
		>>>> it is published on my website at
		>>>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel absolutely free
		>>>> to use
		>>>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank you very
		>>>> much for
		>>>> the input. Questions are welcome.
		>>>>
		>>>> Cheers,   Ted
		>>>>
		>>>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
		>>>>   Independent Consultant in Language
		>>>>          and Intercultural Training
		>>>>               14456 Agarita Road
		>>>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
		>>>>              Phone:512-266-1801
		>>>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
		>>>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
		>>>>
		>>>>
		>>>> ----- Original Message -----
		>>>>>
		>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
		>>>>>
		>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
		>>>>>
		>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
		>>>>>
		>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>> Hi  Ted,
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it
		>>>>> yourself?
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try
		>>>>> to
		>>>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do others
		>>>>> you
		>>>>> work with?
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the
		>>>>> students
		>>>>> advance?
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>> Marie
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
		>>>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
		>>>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
		>>>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
		>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
		>>>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
		>>>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> Marie,
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> Ted
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
		>>>>>>  NO
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>    supportive personality?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>    other and the instructor?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>     target language  proficiency?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>     than push them?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>     exaggerated speech?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>     results?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>> ---- Original Message -----
		>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> Hello  everyone,
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on  regarding
		>>>>>>> your
		>>>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??  I was
		>>>>>>> very
		>>>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
		>>>>>>> that
		>>>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
		>>>>>>> intensity
		>>>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
		>>>>>>> opportunities
		>>>>>>> for  professional development.
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit the ESL
		>>>>>>> student
		>>>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> Thanks!
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> Marie  Cora
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> Marie  Cora
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
		>>>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>>
		>>>>>>> -------------------------------
		>>>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
		>>>>>>> Assessment mailing list
		>>>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
		>>>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
		>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
		>>>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>>
		>>>>> -------------------------------
		>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
		>>>>> Assessment mailing list
		>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
		>>>>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings, please go to
		>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
		>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
		>>>>
		>>>>
		>>>> -------------------------------
		>>>> National Institute for Literacy
		>>>> Assessment mailing list
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		>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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		>>>> Email delivered to usha_narayanan at fuhsd.org
		>>>
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		>>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
		>>>
		>>
		>>
		>> --
		>> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
		>> Professor, Education Department
		>> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
		>> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in
		>> ESOL/Bilingual
		>> Education
		>> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
		>> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
		>> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
		>> email: crandall at umbc.edu
		>> www.umbc.edu/llc/
		>> www.umbc.edu/esol/
		>> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
		>>
		>>
		>>
		>> -------------------------------
		>> National Institute for Literacy
		>> Assessment mailing list
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		>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
		>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
		>> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
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		>> Assessment mailing list
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		>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
		>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
		>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
		>>
		>
		>
		> --
		> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
		> Professor, Education Department
		> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
		> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
		> Education
		> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
		> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
		> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
		> email: crandall at umbc.edu
		> www.umbc.edu/llc/
		> www.umbc.edu/esol/
		> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
		>
		>
		>
		> -------------------------------
		> National Institute for Literacy
		> Assessment mailing list
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		> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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		> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
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		>
		
		
		-- 
		JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
		Professor, Education Department
		Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
		Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
		Education
		University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
		1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
		ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
		email: crandall at umbc.edu
		www.umbc.edu/llc/
		www.umbc.edu/esol/
		www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
		
		
		
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	JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

	Professor and Director

	Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program

	Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education

	University of Maryland Baltimore County

	1000 Hilltop Circle

	Baltimore, MD 21250

	tel:  410-455-2313

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From crandall at umbc.edu  Thu Feb  7 17:22:49 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (Jodi Crandall)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 17:22:49 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1160] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
	Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <001f01c86912$fbcc09c0$f3641d40$@net>
References: <1dd5701e0802051006i6f9e4473wcc9aa9810ca65f7c@mail.gmail.com>	<OF56C5D320.83B8357C-ON072573E6.0065B469-072573E6.0065D41F@yc.edu>	<000d01c86854$6e1dfde0$4a59f9a0$@net>	<1dd5701e0802060401r7fe15e6apb5e2af1d1564f98a@mail.gmail.com>
	<49509.130.85.83.224.1202328618.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
	<001f01c86912$fbcc09c0$f3641d40$@net>
Message-ID: <076B1938-8827-49B0-9890-3DA0BC4C3641@umbc.edu>

Forrest,

I'm not sure yet that I know the question, but here goes ...

I don't know of community college programs now that continue to  
separate out literacy level students after the actual literacy  
class.  Does anyone else>

When I mentioned higher levels of prior education, in this context, I  
didn't mean college-educated students, but those with closer to a  
high school education n their own countries.  These are the students  
that we used to believe were the main students that we served, not  
the literacy level students who are increasingly being enrolled  in  
our classes.

For highly educated individuals, those with college degrees in their  
own countries, most of the programs that I know seek to transition  
these students into more academic ESL programs at the intermediate  
levels.  In fact, some community colleges, like the English for  
Academic Purposes College of Lake County, that we studied, created a  
seamless transition from noncredit to credit academic ESL courses by  
working backwards from the credit expectations and then aligning the  
intermediate level noncredit ESL to them.

City College, as you know, provides accelerated ESL classes (two  
terms in one) for more educated students, since they are likely to be  
able to make faster progress.


Jodi

On Feb 6, 2008, at 5:52 PM, Forrest Chisman wrote:

> Jodi,
>
> I think you misunderstood me (as usual) :-). My question wasn't about
> separating out literacy level students. I agree most programs do  
> that. My
> question was about the other practice from the 1980's you mention --
> separate classes for students with higher levels of prior education  
> ABOVE
> the literacy level.
>
> Forrest
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On
> Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM
> To: The Assessment Discussion List
> Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No  
> Questions or
> Comments?!
>
> Jackie and Forrest,
>
> I think most large programs separate literacy level students from  
> others
> who are at a beginning level.  I know that back in the 1980s when  
> there
> were large refugee ESL programs, several community colleges created
> parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels and even into  
> intermediate
> levels, with one set of classes for students with limited literacy or
> prior schooling and another for more educated students.  The reason  
> was
> that the students with less education made slower progress.  Some  
> of this
> is undoubtedly due to the way in which we teach English (requiring
> literacy), but it is also because students need to become  
> accustomed to
> attending classes, learning to hold and use a pen or pencil, and a  
> wide
> range of basic skills that come with being a student in a class.
>
> Those of you who have separate classes for those who need  
> literacy:   Can
> you tell us what kind of classes or program you provide?
>
> Those who teach both literacy and more educated learners in the same
> class:  Can you let us know how you manage?  What are some ways in  
> which
> you accommodate both sets of needs?
>
> Jodi
>> Forrest,
>>    I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy
>> background
>> and those without. These two groups have such different needs.  
>> Having both
>> in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs of  
>> either
>> group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate  
>> the class,
>> and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor does  
>> not keep
>> up
>> with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they often  
>> become
>> frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the  
>> instructor
>> keeps
>> up with those students, the others are unable to keep up and they get
>> frustrated.
>>   I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And  
>> regardless of
>> how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.
>> Jackie
>>
>>
>> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>  To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a  
>>> factor in
>>> student performance:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more  
>>> highly
>>> educated students do better in terms of  persistence, learning  
>>> gains,
>>> and
>>> transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this.
>>> Regrettably
>>> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior  
>>> education
>>> makes, because too few programs track the level of prior  
>>> education of
>>> their
>>> students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this?  
>>> That is,
>>> do
>>> you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education  
>>> makes?
>>> Or
>>> any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior  
>>> education
>>> that
>>> seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are completely
>>> illiterate,
>>> students who at least reached high school, high school graduates,
>>> college
>>> graduates, etc. --  or is level of prior education pretty much of a
>>> continuum?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between  
>>> highly
>>> educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably
>>> students
>>> with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the  
>>> lower
>>> level
>>> ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by
>>> definition)  in the business of teaching basic literacy and  
>>> sometimes
>>> math.
>>> Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist  
>>> at these
>>> levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be
>>> desirable
>>> to place less highly educated students in separate classes from  
>>> those
>>> with
>>> more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for them
>>> accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy"  
>>> or the
>>> Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these
>>> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of
>>> "bi-lingual
>>> education" that should be tried?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because  
>>> the
>>> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of
>>> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates  
>>> large
>>> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that  
>>> means),
>>> ESL
>>> programs may be swamped with students who have very little  
>>> education in
>>> their native countries and too little money to serve them.  So  
>>> anyone
>>> who
>>> has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could help  
>>> us a
>>> lot
>>> by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Forrest Chisman
>>>
>>> Vice President
>>>
>>> CAAL
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
>>> bounces at nifl.gov]
>>> *On
>>> Behalf Of *Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
>>> *To:* The Assessment Discussion List
>>> *Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No  
>>> Questions
>>> or
>>> Comments?!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Jackie,
>>>
>>> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be  
>>> what my
>>> former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual
>>> education in
>>> the K-12 school system.
>>>
>>> Tina
>>>
>>> Tina Luffman
>>> Coordinator, Developmental Education
>>> Verde Valley Campus
>>> 928-634-6544
>>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>>
>>>   *"Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>*
>>> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>
>>> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM
>>>
>>> Please respond to
>>> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>>
>>> To
>>>
>>> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>>
>>> cc
>>>
>>> Subject
>>>
>>> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
>>>  Comments?!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Tina,
>>>
>>> This has been researched already and is the basis for the  
>>> arguement in
>>> favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not  
>>> implemented in
>>> the best way. For many years people have known that a good  
>>> foundation
>>> in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a  
>>> second
>>> or third language.
>>>
>>> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not
>>> written.
>>>
>>> Jackie
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:
>>>> Hi list members,
>>>>
>>>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to
>>> that
>>> of
>>>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the  
>>>> country
>>> they
>>>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather
>>> quickly
>>> and
>>>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their
>>> country
>>> or
>>>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much
>>>> advancement.
>>>>
>>>> This experience relates well to research done among Native American
>>> tribes
>>>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
>>> literacy
>>>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than  
>>>> those who
>>> tried
>>>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in  
>>>> their
>>> own
>>>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning  
>>>> Spanish. The
>>>> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were  
>>>> much
>>> easier
>>>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps  
>>>> this
>>> is
>>>> something deserving more research.
>>>>
>>>> Tina
>>>> Tina Luffman
>>>> Coordinator, Developmental Education
>>>> Verde Valley Campus
>>>> 928-634-6544
>>>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>>>
>>>> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>>>>
>>>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>
>>>> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
>>>> Comments?!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
>>>> Warning: (not named).
>>>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for
>>> more
>>>> information.
>>>>
>>>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about  
>>>> three
>>> years)
>>>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
>>> particularly if
>>>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the  
>>>> slowest, if
>>> at
>>>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first  
>>>> language. I
>>> would
>>>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a
>>> student
>>>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed  
>>>> because
>>> he/she
>>>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is
>>> try
>>> to
>>>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
>>> concept
>>>> in a second language.
>>>>
>>>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't
>>> play
>>> a
>>>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers  
>>>> (transitioned
>>> from
>>>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
>>> classes).
>>>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow  
>>>> advancement.
>>> It's
>>>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
>>> teachers.
>>>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is
>>> encouraging
>>> me
>>>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think
>>> we're
>>>> making some progress.
>>>>
>>>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>
>>>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
>>>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your
>>>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was  
>>>> very
>>>> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
>>> that
>>> Dr.
>>>> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of  
>>>> intensity
>>> of
>>>> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few  
>>>> opportunities
>>> for
>>>> professional development.
>>>>
>>>> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>>> student
>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
>>>>
>>>> Please post your questions and comments now.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Marie Cora
>>>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marie Cora
>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>> <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>>> intended
>>>> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>>> addressed.
>>>> If you have received this email in error please notify the system
>>> manager.
>>>> This message contains confidential information and is intended only
>>> for
>>> the
>>>> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
>>>> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>>> Assessment mailing list
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>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>> <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
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>>>> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>> Assessment mailing list
>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>> <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>> <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
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>>>
>>>
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>> Assessment mailing list
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>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>
>
>
> -- 
> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Professor, Education Department
> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/ 
> Bilingual
> Education
> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
> email: crandall at umbc.edu
> www.umbc.edu/llc/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to forrest at crosslink.net
>
>

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor and Director
Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
University of Maryland Baltimore County
1000 Hilltop Circle
Baltimore, MD 21250
tel:  410-455-2313
fax: 410-455-8947
eml: crandall at umbc.edu




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From crandall at umbc.edu  Thu Feb  7 17:33:15 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (Jodi Crandall)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 17:33:15 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1161] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
	Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <8CA372E1335CD5E-1370-2018@webmail-da11.sysops.aol.com>
References: <1dd5701e0802051006i6f9e4473wcc9aa9810ca65f7c@mail.gmail.com>	<OF56C5D320.83B8357C-ON072573E6.0065B469-072573E6.0065D41F@yc.edu>	<000d01c86854$6e1dfde0$4a59f9a0$@net>	<1dd5701e0802060401r7fe15e6apb5e2af1d1564f98a@mail.gmail.com>	<8CA36DB4BFA2167-E5C-2BC8@WEBMAIL-MA05.sysops.aol.com>
	<49516.130.85.83.224.1202329625.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
	<8CA372E1335CD5E-1370-2018@webmail-da11.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <E0EFE030-9C08-4251-B280-5991DED7DD9E@umbc.edu>

Andres,

Thanks for this.  If the Spanish GED program is intensive, then  
students would probably not have time for ESL and if they do,  
attending classes at another program in the community makes sense.

I also understand your desire to focus on more academic ESL.  I'm  
also curious to know if your college also offers career/technical  
training.   Does your academic ESL program align with what's needed  
there or do you offer  integrated Vocational ESL and Vocational/ 
Career/Technical training programs?

I think we all empathize with the limited funding and the amount of  
resources needed to  meet NRS reporting requirements.

Jodi
On Feb 6, 2008, at 6:21 PM, andresmuro at aol.com wrote:

> Jodi:
>
> The credit ESL program in the college is very academic. However it  
> provides students with financial aid and other goodies. We feel  
> that the students will not do well in a credit academic ESL program  
> until they have a level comparable to GED in their native language.  
> Also, a GED certificate is a way to demonstrate ability to benefit  
> to qualify for financial aid. Those students who get into the  
> credit ESL program without native language literacy don't do well.
>
> Students can attend other ESL classes in the community while they  
> are attending our classes. We stopped providing ESL because of  
> limited funding to provide what we would consider meaningful ESL.  
> Also, our Spanish GED program is fairly intensive and our students  
> would not have enough time to attend an additional program. We have  
> a few students who may be attending our classes and an ESL class  
> concurrently. Those are a minority
>
> The truth is that we started as an ESL literacy program many years  
> ago. There was virtually no funding for  literacy ESL unless it   
> had all kind of testing requirements. Also, it is very hard to  
> train teachers to be really good at ESL. The system that encourages  
> large number of untrained part timers prevents this from happening.
>
> I know that a lot of people in these listservs claim exemplary  
> service and illustrate  with examples of what they have done. I  
> don't doubt that  their claims are 100% true. However,  we are in  
> the minority. If I could get you and Heide and Elsa and Andy Nash  
> and Leonore and Deborah Schwartz, and Anson Green and Federico and  
> others to be my ESL teachers, I would have the best program in the  
> world. However, the fact is that in addition to the barriers that  
> ESL students face in their daily lives, plus the bureaucratic and  
> assessment barriers that the system creates for teachers and  
> students, plus the difficulty hiring and retaining highly qualified  
> ESL staff makes it very difficult to have a successful ESL program.
>
> I feel that until we get rid of WIA/NRS it will be tough to create  
> good stuff in a systematic way.
>
> Andres
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu>
> To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
> Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 1:27 pm
> Subject: [Assessment 1141] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No  
> Questions or Comments?!
>
> Andres,
>
>
>
> It is great that you provide Spanish language literacy and GED  
> classes for
>
> your students.  There's no question that native language literacy
>
> contributes not just to the development of the first language, but  
> also to
>
> English language development when students take oral ESL classes.   
> There
>
> is some research in this area by Michele Burtoff with Haitians in  
> the U.S.
>
> and there is a lot of research (see especially research by David  
> Ramirez
>
> which compares children who had 6, 3 or no years of bilingual  
> education)
>
> that shows that providing bilingual education not only has all the
>
> benefits that would be expected, but students also achieve in  
> English as
>
> well or better than those who only had instruction in English.
>
>
>
> We also found that Spanish GED classes had large numbers of  
> students at
>
> the colleges, since students who take the GED in Spanish are able to
>
> bypass the need for extensive ESL just to get this credential.   
> They might
>
> want to take ESL as well, but the desire for the GED is often for
>
> work-related reasons.  I'm not clear on why you ask students to  
> wait until
>
> after they have passed the GED to take ESL classes.  Can you tell us a
>
> little more about that?
>
>
>
> Of course not all students who enroll in adult ESL are Spanish  
> speakers
>
> and there may not be enough who speak any language to provide literacy
>
> classes for them in their own language, but programs might try to  
> partner
>
> with immigrant or refugee-related community-based organizations which
>
> could reach more students and also identify someone to provide the
>
> instruction.  Still, there will  be students who will not be able  
> to take
>
> literacy classes in their own languages and for them, a separate ESL
>
> literacy class seems to be the best option.
>
>
>
> It would be great to hear from others about their experiences both  
> with
>
> first language (Spanish and other languages) literacy classes,  
> Spanish GED
>
> classes, and literacy ESL classes.
>
>
>
> How do you place students in your literacy classes?  Do you use a
>
> standardized test or do you have informal ways of determining if  
> someone
>
> would be better served in a literacy ESL class?
>
>
>
>
>
> Jodi
>
>
>
> >
>
> >  Problem is that in many ESL people are placed in ESL classes  
> based on an
>
> > English placement multiple choice test. A student with advanced  
> education
>
> > in L1 and one with little education in L1 may know very little  
> English
>
> > and they may both be placed in the same level. The student with  
> advance
>
> > education will progress much faster than the one with little  
> education.
>
> > The advanced L1 student will understand concepts like sentence,
>
> > paragraph, verb, subject, direct object, adjective, composition  
> and essay
>
> > readily. The one with with little education will need to  
> understand these
>
> > concepts. It takes a while for people to master these concepts. A  
> highly
>
> > educated L2? learner will likely progress faster academically in  
> a second
>
> > language than a fluent native speaker of that? language with limited
>
> > academic education, for the same reason. This is observed  
> regularly in
>
> > universities all over the US. highly educated foreign students who
>
> > acquired English as L2 recently will do better than their Eng
>
> >  lish speaking counterparts in academic tasks in English. Jim  
> Cummins has
>
> > articulated this clearly with his BICS and CALPS.
>
> >
>
> > In our program at El Paso Community College we have found  
> evidence of
>
> > this. We stopped doing literacy ESL a while back for this reason.  
> The
>
> > college has an academic ESL program. Instead of doing ESL  
> literacy we
>
> > started offering Spanish Literacy and GED many years ago since  
> the vast
>
> > majority of our students are Spanish speakers. Once our students  
> acquire
>
> > their Spanish GED they transition into the ESL program and do  
> better than
>
> > those students who don't have L1 academic skills. Even if takes  
> them a
>
> > while to acquire the L1 literacy, they will do better. Those with  
> no L1
>
> > literacy often stay in ESL forever and they drop out, start again in
>
> > another program, drop out and continue the same pattern. I think  
> that this
>
> > happens because of the mixture of academically ready students and  
> those
>
> > that are not ready, since most ESL programs focus on traditional
>
> > academics. For L1 low literacy students to be able to progress in  
> L2 there
>
> > has to be a program specifically designed for them that teache
>
> >  s skills in L2 in new and innovative ways without interference from
>
> > academically skilled L1 students. Right now we don't have a  
> system that
>
> > systematically does this, and the WIA/NRS system prevents this form
>
> > happening.
>
> >
>
> > Hope that this makes sense,
>
> >
>
> > Andres
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: Jackie Coelho <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>
>
> > To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
>
> > Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 5:01 am
>
> > Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No  
> Questions or
>
> > Comments?!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Forrest,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ?? I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy
>
> > background and those without. These two groups have such  
> different needs.
>
> > Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet  
> the needs
>
> > of either group well and I find that often the stronger students  
> dominate
>
> > the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the  
> instructor
>
> > does not keep up with the students who are learning at a faster  
> rate, they
>
> > often become frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However,  
> if the
>
> > instructor keeps up with those students, the others are unable to  
> keep up
>
> > and they get frustrated.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ? I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And  
> regardless of
>
> > how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Jackie
>
> >
>
> > ?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a  
> factor in
>
> > student performance:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more  
> highly
>
> > educated students do better in terms of ?persistence, learning  
> gains, and
>
> > transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this.  
> Regrettably
>
> > we found very little hard data about how much difference prior  
> education
>
> > makes, because too few programs track the level of prior  
> education of
>
> > their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do  
> this? That
>
> > is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior  
> education
>
> > makes? Or any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in  
> prior
>
> > education that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are
>
> > completely illiterate, students who at least reached high school,  
> high
>
> > school graduates, college graduates, etc. -- ?or is level of prior
>
> > education pretty much of a continuum?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between  
> highly
>
> > educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably  
> students
>
> > with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the  
> lower
>
> > level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are  
> (almost by
>
> > definition) ?in the business of teaching basic literacy and  
> sometimes
>
> > math. Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap"  
> exist at
>
> > these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels,  
> would it be
>
> > desirable to place less highly educated students in separate  
> classes from
>
> > those with more education and adjust the curriculum/support  
> systems for
>
> > them accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language  
> literacy" or
>
> > the Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with  
> these
>
> > approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of
>
> > "bi-lingual education" that should be tried?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because  
> the
>
> > people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of
>
> > immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates  
> large
>
> > numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that  
> means),
>
> > ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very little  
> education
>
> > in their native countries and too little money to serve them. ?So  
> anyone
>
> > who has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could  
> help us a
>
> > lot by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Forrest Chisman
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Vice President
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > CAAL
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ??
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On
>
> > Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
>
> >
>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
>
> > To: The Assessment Discussion List
>
> > Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No  
> Questions or
>
> > Comments?!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Hi Jackie,
>
> >
>
> > Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be  
> what my
>
> > former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual  
> education
>
> > in the K-12 school system.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Tina
>
> >
>
> > Tina Luffman
>
> > Coordinator, Developmental Education
>
> > Verde Valley Campus
>
> > 928-634-6544
>
> > tina_luffman at yc.edu
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > "Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>
>
> >
>
> > Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > 02/05/2008 11:13 AM
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Please respond to
>
> > The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > To
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > cc
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Subject
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or ? ? ?
>
> > ?Comments?!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
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> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Hi Tina,
>
> >
>
> > This has been researched already and is the basis for the  
> arguement in
>
> > favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not  
> implemented in
>
> >
>
> > the best way. For many years people have known that a good  
> foundation
>
> > in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a  
> second
>
> > or third language.
>
> >
>
> > Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not
>
> > written.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Jackie
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >> Hi list members,
>
> >>
>
> >> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar  
> to that
>
> >> of
>
> >> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the  
> country
>
> >> they
>
> >
>
> >> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather  
> quickly
>
> >> and
>
> >> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their  
> country
>
> >> or
>
> >> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much
>
> >
>
> >> advancement.
>
> >>
>
> >> This experience relates well to research done among Native American
>
> >> tribes
>
> >> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
>
> >> literacy
>
> >
>
> >> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than  
> those who
>
> >> tried
>
> >> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in  
> their own
>
> >> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning  
> Spanish. The
>
> >
>
> >> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were  
> much
>
> >> easier
>
> >> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps  
> this is
>
> >> something deserving more research.
>
> >
>
> >>
>
> >> Tina
>
> >> Tina Luffman
>
> >> Coordinator, Developmental Education
>
> >> Verde Valley Campus
>
> >> 928-634-6544
>
> >> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>
> >
>
> >>
>
> >> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>
> >>
>
> >> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>
> >
>
> >> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>
>
> >> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>
> >
>
> >> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
>
> >> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
>
> >> Comments?!
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
>
> >
>
> >> Warning: (not named).
>
> >> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s)  
> for more
>
> >> information.
>
> >>
>
> >> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about  
> three
>
> >> years)
>
> >
>
> >> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
>
> >> particularly if
>
> >> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the  
> slowest, if at
>
> >> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first  
> language. I
>
> >> would
>
> >
>
> >> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a
>
> >> student
>
> >> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed  
> because
>
> >> he/she
>
> >> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do  
> is try
>
> >> to
>
> >
>
> >> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
>
> >> concept
>
> >> in a second language.
>
> >>
>
> >> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research  
> don't play
>
> >> a
>
> >
>
> >> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers  
> (transitioned
>
> >> from
>
> >> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
>
> >> classes).
>
> >> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow  
> advancement.
>
> >> It's
>
> >
>
> >> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
>
> >> teachers.
>
> >> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is  
> encouraging
>
> >> me
>
> >> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I  
> think we're
>
> >
>
> >> making some progress.
>
> >>
>
> >> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
>
> >>
>
> >> ________________________________
>
> >>
>
> >
>
> >> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
>
> >> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
>
> >
>
> >> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>
> >> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>
> >
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Hello everyone,
>
> >>
>
> >> I'm so surprised! ?No one has anything to comment on regarding your
>
> >> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? ?I was  
> very
>
> >
>
> >> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of  
> issues that
>
> >> Dr.
>
> >> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research: ?a lack of  
> intensity
>
> >> of
>
> >> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few  
> opportunities
>
> >> for
>
> >
>
> >> professional development.
>
> >>
>
> >> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>
> >> student
>
> >> from advancing? ?What do you try to do about that?
>
> >>
>
> >
>
> >> Please post your questions and comments now.
>
> >>
>
> >> Thanks!
>
> >>
>
> >> Marie Cora
>
> >> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >
>
> >> Marie Cora
>
> >> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>
> >> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>
> >
>
> >> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>
> >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
> >
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>
> >> intended
>
> >> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>
> >> addressed.
>
> >> If you have received this email in error please notify the system
>
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>
> >
>
> >> This message contains confidential information and is intended  
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>
> >> the
>
> >> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
>
> >> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
>
> >
>
> >> -------------------------------
>
> >> National Institute for Literacy
>
> >> Assessment mailing list
>
> >> Assessment at nifl.gov
>
> >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>
> >
>
> >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
> >
>
> >> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> -------------------------------
>
> >> National Institute for Literacy
>
> >> Assessment mailing list
>
> >
>
> >> Assessment at nifl.gov
>
> >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>
> >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
> >
>
> >> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> > -------------------------------
>
> > National Institute for Literacy
>
> > Assessment mailing list
>
> >
>
> > Assessment at nifl.gov
>
> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
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>
> > Assessment mailing list
>
> > Assessment at nifl.gov
>
> >
>
> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>
> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
> >
>
> > Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > -------------------------------
>
> > National Institute for Literacy
>
> > Assessment mailing list
>
> > Assessment at nifl.gov
>
> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>
> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
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> >  
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> __
>
> > More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
>
> > http://webmail.aol.com
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> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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> > Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
>
> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>
> Professor, Education Department
>
> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
>
> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/ 
> Bilingual
>
> Education
>
> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
>
> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
>
> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
>
> email: crandall at umbc.edu
>
> www.umbc.edu/llc/
>
> www.umbc.edu/esol/
>
> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
>
> National Institute for Literacy
>
> Assessment mailing list
>
> Assessment at nifl.gov
>
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
> Email delivered to andresmuro at aol.com
> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor and Director
Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
University of Maryland Baltimore County
1000 Hilltop Circle
Baltimore, MD 21250
tel:  410-455-2313
fax: 410-455-8947
eml: crandall at umbc.edu




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From gburnett at sanford.org  Thu Feb  7 19:07:48 2008
From: gburnett at sanford.org (Gail Burnett)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 19:07:48 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1162]  {Dangerous Content?} assessments
References: <mailman.1548.1202425063.1030.assessment@nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <D66AE1265AC9B14B9EDD2D3EDA8066F5013EA39F@shsmail.sanford.org>

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All the discussion on this list (the first I've ever joined) has been fascinating. I have a question I haven't seen addressed. Someone said that the BEST-Plus is the only valid kind of test for ESL learners. What does anyone think of the CASAS? That's what we use with our adult students, both ELLs and native speakers. I know it wasn't designed for ESL use but it does use real-life material (road maps, pay stubs, store signs, etc.) and I think that's good. What has always bothered me is that it's taken silently. That doesn't seem right for our lower level students, who rarely make many gains. I wonder if it's considered valid for them or not. I know that other ESL programs do use it.

Thanks.


-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of assessment-request at nifl.gov
Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 5:57 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: Assessment Digest, Vol 29, Issue 28
 
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Today's Topics:

   1. [Assessment 1160] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
      or	Comments?! (Jodi Crandall)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 17:22:49 -0500
From: Jodi Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu>
Subject: [Assessment 1160] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
	or	Comments?!
To: "Forrest Chisman" <forrest at crosslink.net>
Cc: 'The Assessment Discussion List' <assessment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <076B1938-8827-49B0-9890-3DA0BC4C3641 at umbc.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Forrest,

I'm not sure yet that I know the question, but here goes ...

I don't know of community college programs now that continue to  
separate out literacy level students after the actual literacy  
class.  Does anyone else>

When I mentioned higher levels of prior education, in this context, I  
didn't mean college-educated students, but those with closer to a  
high school education n their own countries.  These are the students  
that we used to believe were the main students that we served, not  
the literacy level students who are increasingly being enrolled  in  
our classes.

For highly educated individuals, those with college degrees in their  
own countries, most of the programs that I know seek to transition  
these students into more academic ESL programs at the intermediate  
levels.  In fact, some community colleges, like the English for  
Academic Purposes College of Lake County, that we studied, created a  
seamless transition from noncredit to credit academic ESL courses by  
working backwards from the credit expectations and then aligning the  
intermediate level noncredit ESL to them.

City College, as you know, provides accelerated ESL classes (two  
terms in one) for more educated students, since they are likely to be  
able to make faster progress.


Jodi

On Feb 6, 2008, at 5:52 PM, Forrest Chisman wrote:

> Jodi,
>
> I think you misunderstood me (as usual) :-). My question wasn't about
> separating out literacy level students. I agree most programs do  
> that. My
> question was about the other practice from the 1980's you mention --
> separate classes for students with higher levels of prior education  
> ABOVE
> the literacy level.
>
> Forrest
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On
> Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM
> To: The Assessment Discussion List
> Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No  
> Questions or
> Comments?!
>
> Jackie and Forrest,
>
> I think most large programs separate literacy level students from  
> others
> who are at a beginning level.  I know that back in the 1980s when  
> there
> were large refugee ESL programs, several community colleges created
> parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels and even into  
> intermediate
> levels, with one set of classes for students with limited literacy or
> prior schooling and another for more educated students.  The reason  
> was
> that the students with less education made slower progress.  Some  
> of this
> is undoubtedly due to the way in which we teach English (requiring
> literacy), but it is also because students need to become  
> accustomed to
> attending classes, learning to hold and use a pen or pencil, and a  
> wide
> range of basic skills that come with being a student in a class.
>
> Those of you who have separate classes for those who need  
> literacy:   Can
> you tell us what kind of classes or program you provide?
>
> Those who teach both literacy and more educated learners in the same
> class:  Can you let us know how you manage?  What are some ways in  
> which
> you accommodate both sets of needs?
>
> Jodi
>> Forrest,
>>    I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy
>> background
>> and those without. These two groups have such different needs.  
>> Having both
>> in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs of  
>> either
>> group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate  
>> the class,
>> and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor does  
>> not keep
>> up
>> with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they often  
>> become
>> frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the  
>> instructor
>> keeps
>> up with those students, the others are unable to keep up and they get
>> frustrated.
>>   I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And  
>> regardless of
>> how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.
>> Jackie
>>
>>
>> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>  To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a  
>>> factor in
>>> student performance:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more  
>>> highly
>>> educated students do better in terms of  persistence, learning  
>>> gains,
>>> and
>>> transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this.
>>> Regrettably
>>> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior  
>>> education
>>> makes, because too few programs track the level of prior  
>>> education of
>>> their
>>> students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this?  
>>> That is,
>>> do
>>> you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education  
>>> makes?
>>> Or
>>> any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior  
>>> education
>>> that
>>> seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are completely
>>> illiterate,
>>> students who at least reached high school, high school graduates,
>>> college
>>> graduates, etc. --  or is level of prior education pretty much of a
>>> continuum?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between  
>>> highly
>>> educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably
>>> students
>>> with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the  
>>> lower
>>> level
>>> ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by
>>> definition)  in the business of teaching basic literacy and  
>>> sometimes
>>> math.
>>> Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist  
>>> at these
>>> levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be
>>> desirable
>>> to place less highly educated students in separate classes from  
>>> those
>>> with
>>> more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for them
>>> accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy"  
>>> or the
>>> Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these
>>> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of
>>> "bi-lingual
>>> education" that should be tried?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because  
>>> the
>>> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of
>>> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates  
>>> large
>>> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that  
>>> means),
>>> ESL
>>> programs may be swamped with students who have very little  
>>> education in
>>> their native countries and too little money to serve them.  So  
>>> anyone
>>> who
>>> has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could help  
>>> us a
>>> lot
>>> by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Forrest Chisman
>>>
>>> Vice President
>>>
>>> CAAL
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
>>> bounces at nifl.gov]
>>> *On
>>> Behalf Of *Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
>>> *To:* The Assessment Discussion List
>>> *Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No  
>>> Questions
>>> or
>>> Comments?!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Jackie,
>>>
>>> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be  
>>> what my
>>> former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual
>>> education in
>>> the K-12 school system.
>>>
>>> Tina
>>>
>>> Tina Luffman
>>> Coordinator, Developmental Education
>>> Verde Valley Campus
>>> 928-634-6544
>>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>>
>>>   *"Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>*
>>> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>
>>> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM
>>>
>>> Please respond to
>>> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>>
>>> To
>>>
>>> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>>
>>> cc
>>>
>>> Subject
>>>
>>> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
>>>  Comments?!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Tina,
>>>
>>> This has been researched already and is the basis for the  
>>> arguement in
>>> favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not  
>>> implemented in
>>> the best way. For many years people have known that a good  
>>> foundation
>>> in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a  
>>> second
>>> or third language.
>>>
>>> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not
>>> written.
>>>
>>> Jackie
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:
>>>> Hi list members,
>>>>
>>>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to
>>> that
>>> of
>>>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the  
>>>> country
>>> they
>>>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather
>>> quickly
>>> and
>>>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their
>>> country
>>> or
>>>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much
>>>> advancement.
>>>>
>>>> This experience relates well to research done among Native American
>>> tribes
>>>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
>>> literacy
>>>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than  
>>>> those who
>>> tried
>>>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in  
>>>> their
>>> own
>>>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning  
>>>> Spanish. The
>>>> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were  
>>>> much
>>> easier
>>>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps  
>>>> this
>>> is
>>>> something deserving more research.
>>>>
>>>> Tina
>>>> Tina Luffman
>>>> Coordinator, Developmental Education
>>>> Verde Valley Campus
>>>> 928-634-6544
>>>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>>>
>>>> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>>>>
>>>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>
>>>> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
>>>> Comments?!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
>>>> Warning: (not named).
>>>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for
>>> more
>>>> information.
>>>>
>>>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about  
>>>> three
>>> years)
>>>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
>>> particularly if
>>>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the  
>>>> slowest, if
>>> at
>>>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first  
>>>> language. I
>>> would
>>>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a
>>> student
>>>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed  
>>>> because
>>> he/she
>>>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is
>>> try
>>> to
>>>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
>>> concept
>>>> in a second language.
>>>>
>>>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't
>>> play
>>> a
>>>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers  
>>>> (transitioned
>>> from
>>>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
>>> classes).
>>>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow  
>>>> advancement.
>>> It's
>>>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
>>> teachers.
>>>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is
>>> encouraging
>>> me
>>>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think
>>> we're
>>>> making some progress.
>>>>
>>>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>
>>>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
>>>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your
>>>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was  
>>>> very
>>>> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
>>> that
>>> Dr.
>>>> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of  
>>>> intensity
>>> of
>>>> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few  
>>>> opportunities
>>> for
>>>> professional development.
>>>>
>>>> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>>> student
>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
>>>>
>>>> Please post your questions and comments now.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Marie Cora
>>>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marie Cora
>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>> <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>>> intended
>>>> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>>> addressed.
>>>> If you have received this email in error please notify the system
>>> manager.
>>>> This message contains confidential information and is intended only
>>> for
>>> the
>>>> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
>>>> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
>>>> -------------------------------
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>>>> Assessment mailing list
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>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>>> Assessment mailing list
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>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> National Institute for Literacy
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>>>
>> -------------------------------
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>> Assessment mailing list
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>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>
>
>
> -- 
> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Professor, Education Department
> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/ 
> Bilingual
> Education
> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
> email: crandall at umbc.edu
> www.umbc.edu/llc/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to forrest at crosslink.net
>
>

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor and Director
Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
University of Maryland Baltimore County
1000 Hilltop Circle
Baltimore, MD 21250
tel:  410-455-2313
fax: 410-455-8947
eml: crandall at umbc.edu




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From mjjerdems at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  7 19:18:11 2008
From: mjjerdems at yahoo.com (Mary Jane Jerde)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 16:18:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Assessment 1163] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <63733377F5D386419FE59FCB038725EF0B544FEE@EXCHANGE.njdol.ad.dol>
Message-ID: <142680.92048.qm@web54007.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

As an ESL instructor who has used BEST Plus for pre-test and post-test scoring in grant funded classes, I have found the test to be an accurate gauge of student placement and growth in English.

One advantage is that I have been able to test new students myself and have post-testing done by various other ABE or ESL instructors. They were all trained by BEST Plus staff. Before a test session the examiner and I go through a review. I have sat with the examiners for initial post-test sessions to have them gain confidence in their abilities. But I had faith that a "subjective" test could be accurate because I had used BEST for seven years in a refugee program and knew it's value for placement. 

The program does a fine job of adjusting level of difficulty based on feedback from responses. 

Is one test ever enough? No. But I have enjoyed the benefit of being able to use both CASAS and BEST Plus in smaller community programs. 

Mary Jane Jerde
ESL Instructor
Howard Community College



"Cohen, Jonathan" <Jonathan.Cohen at dol.state.nj.us> wrote:               Good reply.
  Jon
   
  Jonathan Cohen
  Workforce Readiness & Literacy
  NJ Dept. of Labor & Workforce Development 
   
      
---------------------------------
  
  From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Michelle Ueland
 Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 4:10 PM
 To: The Assessment Discussion List
 Subject: [Assessment 1158] Re: Observation checklist
  
   
   
  Dear Assessment Listserv Members,
  It is with great interest that we have been following this discussion regarding one of our assessments, BEST Plus, and its use for oral proficiency meaurement on initial placement and learner progress. 
  As other assessments have been brought into the discussion, we would like to provide the following clarification, taken verbatim from the DLIELC Website: http://www.dlielc.org/testing/ALCPT.html : "DLIELC conducts English language proficiency testing using the Oral Proficiency Interview (OPI), a face-to-face or telephonic interview, and the English Comprehension Level (ECL) test, a multiple choice test of listening and reading comprehension. (The ECL test is provided to authorized US Government users only.) DLIELC also makes available the American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT) for English language programs conducted outside of DLIELC. Achievement testing of American Language Course (ALC) objectives is conducted using book quizzes and performance tests, which can be obtained with the course materials." 
  According to the April 2007 edition of the Handbook for the American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT): "The most important consideration under the general topic of test security is test compromise. One of the easiest ways to compromise any test is through its inappropriate use." Given the definitions above, there are many reasons to question the appropriateness of using any of the above mentioned tests with the adult ESL population in the U.S.
  Currently, BEST Plus is the only assessment developed specifically for use with adult English language learners in educational programs, which simultaneously measures adults' listening and speaking skills. As the BEST Plus Level Gain study shows ( http://www.cal.org/resources/digest/levelgain.html ), more hours equals more gains, whether that be during one academic year (intensity of instruction) or over an adult's lifetime (persistence as a learner). Furthermore, this study also shows that not only is BEST Plus appropriate for initial placement, but it is also a good measure of student progress. In many ways, BEST Plus brings the knowledge and design of other oral proficiency instruments to the field of adult ESL in a highly accessible manner. Test administrations are relatively inexpensive when compared to the high cost of other oral proficiency assessments, the results accurate and immediate, and for the first time, instructors are able to confirm many of their "gut
 instinct" and "handshake" evaluations based on their expertise and familiarity with the adult ESL population in a standardized manner that is scored by a common rubric.
  In regard to test administrator training, another advantage to BEST Plus is that ESL instructors are able to engage in professional development in the area of proficiency assessment. Across the country, responses to BEST Plus training are overwhelmingly positive. Our core of trainers does fantastic work to educate practitioners about the differences between being a good teacher and being a good standardized test administrator, in addition to training test administrators to administer and score BEST Plus. Furthermore, there are several opportunities for previously trained test administrators to recalibrate their scoring accuracy through the use of the Scoring Refresher Toolkit within their local programs and states. In this way, programs can confirm their inter-rater reliability, as CAL has also done during the development and design of BEST Plus. We would encourage anyone interested in finding out more about the design of BEST Plus and its high rate of inter-rater
 reliability to read the BEST Plus Technical Manual.
  Finally, we hope that programs using BEST Plus continue to see the benefits of providing adults ESL learners with data regarding their oral proficiency level and progress. Particularly adults with many commitments need this type of information offered at their convenience locally by their service providers. By knowing their levels, program directors and instructors can to continue to make instructional and programatic decisions based on learner needs and to assist the learners in their own educational goal setting.
  Michelle M. Ueland
  Adult ESL Assessments
  Center for Applied Linguistics
     
    
---------------------------------
  
  From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
 Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:27 PM
 To: The Assessment Discussion List
 Subject: [Assessment 1157] Re: Observation checklist
  Ted and all, 
     
  
    I imagine others would like to have access to the ALCPT information as well.
  
     
  
    I have also given the OPI, not as a certified interviewer but with a lot of training in its use.  I use it  as part of information gathering in reviewing programs overseas, to see what various levels of instruction correspond to in proficiency terms. I haven't used it with adult ESL population.  Like Mary Margaret, I have found that it takes about the same amount of time.  
  
     
  
    Do others have the same concerns about the BEST Plus?
  
     
  
    Jodi
  
     
  
    On Feb 7, 2008, at 12:58 PM, Ted Klein wrote:
  
          Jodi,
  
     
  
    My wife, Mary Margaret, was a certified OPI interviewer at DLI. She says that the average interview was 20 minutes. This depends on the interviewee's level. Two people interview. The higher the level, the longer the test. It's a really good test. The bad news is that there is/was something like a 40% failure rate for certification of interviewer among instructors and staff. Some of these people were pretty sharp, but doing it is an art and a science. There is no question the OPI is the state-of-the-art. Even experienced interviewers get frequent tune-ups. I believe that the OPI scoring system with the + indicating 60% of the next higher level COULD be simplified and adapted to adult education. However, if progress has to be shown as often as now, real proficiency doesn't change that fast and could cost programs $ when they submit their paperwork.  IF it were done after maybe 120 class hours, there may be significant changes.
  
     
  
    Although I got the training, I bribe other people to do the BEST Plus on my students, including Mary Margaret! I think that it's fine for placement, but really doesn't work for "progress" for a number of reasons. Even when people are trained to use it properly, there is enormous difference, even in how the interviewers expresses themselves orally and make scores. If we have to continue using the BEST tests, another thing that I would like to see is small teams of really good and consistent interviewers that do the tests on all of the students. A weak measurement system is the Achilles Heel in Adult Education.
  
     
  
    I would prefer the use of the American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT). If you will give me an e-mail address that is convenient, I will send you more information on it from my old workshops. It's cheaper, quicker, and quite accurate. I totally agree with you that teacher wisdom is also a good way to determine where and when the student should move on. Unfortunately, many managers don't trust the peasants! There are also several good ways to place people that don't involve their ability to read the ALCPT.
  
     
  
    I put out an Adult Education/ESL Newsletter once in a while. I recently did an article on the OPI, which may answer more of the questions. Here it is:
  
     
  
     
  
    Adult Education/ESL News Letter; the Federal Oral Proficiency Interview   Jan. 8, 2008    Ted Klein
  
     
  
      For many years the Foreign Service Institute (FSI) of the United States conducted interviews of foreign language proficiency to measure the understanding and production of languages acquired by their staff. This test was also used by some other federal agencies and was adapted by some civilian language programs as a measure of their graduates. This test expressed performance using scores ranging from zero to five. For decades it was the best game in town. The problem is that both the interview techniques and scoring systems in the FSI exam were not as objective as needed for some persons, whose jobs required very specific scores that would be important to accomplishment of their missions.
  
     
  
    Language proficiency testing needs have always depended on the terminal objectives of the students. In most cases, a well-designed comprehension test is adequate and may be used for language class placement, graduation criteria, determination of readiness for certain jobs, training, or education, etc. During my twenty years with the   Defense Language Institute  English Language  Center, all students were tested with the English Comprehension Level (ECL) test, which was developed as an overall measure of listening and reading skills. This test was developed and maintained by individuals whose primary expertise was in valid measurement procedures assisted by a team of persons who developed multiple choice test items that were based more on their language expertise than math. Scores were in a sense arbitrary and didn't represent a "percentage" of anything. However the use of an ECL test to determine readiness for international military personnel from many countries to
 participate in U.S.military training was considered a very reliable source of measuring English-language readiness. The test measured listening and reading skills and was "loaded" with numerous structural, vocabulary and phonological factors. It was multiple choice and could be administered in an hour to a large group of students. Students went on from DLIELC for training as pilots, staff college attendees, electronics specialists, medical personnel, etc. and enjoyed a very low failure rate due to language factors. Often, the comprehension scores tended to reflect competence in spoken English, because most of these students had acquired English in a balanced environment of listening, speaking, reading and writing skills. The DLIELC program itself was fairly uniform in which all American Language Course materials were systematically provided for specific lengths of time to teaching staff trained to use specific methodologies. DLIELC students normally start their training in
 their home countries and later go to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio to finish general English when their ECL scores meet predetermined criteria to continue to continue on to study specialized terminology.
  
     
  
    In the 1980's a gentleman from the Central Intelligence Agency was tasked with the production of a more objective oral language measurement system than the FSI exam, with truly meaningful scores and criteria. He accomplished that mission and the new Oral Proficiency Interview (OPI) examination was designed. That's the good news! The bad news is that it is both an art and a science to administer. A copy of the criteria and rating factors is below. It can be found at the DLIELC website at http://www.dlielc.org/testing/opi_profile.html  This OPI took care of the majority of the problems with the older FSI exam, including a very tight and variable interview system in which persons were taken to their highest level of oral communication. Both listening and speaking skills receive a score. The chart below reflects whole number judgments with a performance-based description of what the person being tested can do with the language. The problem is that even after two weeks of
 training persons to administer the test, there is a rather high failure rate among tester candidates. At one time potential interviewer failures rates were as high as 40%. Tests are administered by pairs of persons who have to agree on a score. I have seen persons with graduate degrees in linguistics fail to become certified interviewers and persons with much less technical expertise succeed and become very competent certified interviewers. The OPI is now used in numerous programs throughout the military, intelligence and diplomatic communities. It is NOT used in place of other valid testing instruments. It is reserved as a supplement for persons in which a known language production level is required. This may include persons who will be air traffic controllers or pilots in which verbal communication skills can be critical.
  
     
  
    The ROTC programs at the University of Puerto Rico require OPI scores for their cadets who become officers in the U.S. military establishment. They also have required ECL scores, and candidates must also be verbally competent in spoken English to get their commissions and succeed in adequate communication for their jobs in the military. The required score to enroll in the ROTC program is an ECL of 75 and an OPI score of 2/1+. One year later the required ECL score is 80 with a 2/2 OPI. To be commissioned in the  U.S. Military the required ECL is 90 and the required OPI is 2+/2. The first number (2+) reflects listening comprehension and the second number reflects speaking ability. When we include the + (plus) designation, this means that the candidate performs at the next higher level at least 60% of the time. Therefore, if we go from 0 (no competence) to five (educated native speaker competence) there are eleven possible levels including the pluses. The difficult part
 for most interviewers is reaching the candidates' real levels, measuring objectively, and having each interview so different from the last one that the possibility of compromise through information sharing is very unlikely. An ECL score of 90 is equivalent to a TOEFL score of 550, which is adequate for an international student to get into many American universities. The American Language Course Proficiency Test (ALCPT) is made from expired ECL tests and can be made available to civilian institutions.
  
     
  
    Why am I telling you about all of this? I was in management work at DLIELC when the OPI system was introduced and never had reason to become a certified interviewer. However, what I find exciting is that the OPI Rating Factor Grid below describes the natural sequence in which our ESL students acquire English. It is a recapitulation of the entire never-ending process of getting a new language. I'm guessing that average competent foreign language majors in a good university would graduate with a 3/3 OPI score in their target languages. The numbers in the OPI can only hint at how long and complicated a process we have to go through to really be truly functional in a second language. For travelling or living in another country for a while, 2/1+ is a very reasonable goal. The chart should give ESL instructors strong insight into both teaching objectives and what their students are going through.  
  
     
  
    There is a short general article on my website about language testing at
  
     http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/lang_tests.html  
  
     
  
     
  
    Ted
  
   
           Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
   Independent Consultant in Language
          and Intercultural Training
               14456 Agarita Road
           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
              Phone:512-266-1801
               taklein at austin.rr.com        
             www.tedklein-ESL.com     
              
  
   
   
   
   
    OPI  RATING  FACTOR  GRID
  
           
         Interactive Comprehension
         Structural Control  Texts Produced            Lexical Control
         Delivery
         Sociolinguistic Competence
         Global Tasks and Functions
             0+
            The individual   understands a number of short, memorized utterances in areas of immediate   needs; frequent, long pauses and repeated requests for repetition.  
   
            No control. Can only   use memorized structures. 
   
      Individual   words and phrases.
   
            Memorized words and   phrases related to immediate survival needs.
   
            Even in memorized   speech, stress, intonation, tone usually quite faulty.
   
            Severely limited.    Any knowledge of cultural appropriateness has a nonlinguistic source
   
            Can make statements   and ask questions using memorized material.
   
             1
            A native speaker   must often use slowed speech, repetition, paraphrase, or a combination of   these to be understood by this individual.  Misunderstandings are frequent,   but the individual is able to ask for help and to verify comprehension of   native speech in face-to-face interaction. 
   
            Structural accuracy   is random or severely limited.  Almost every utterance has errors in basic   structures.  Time concepts are vague.  Can formulate some questions.  
   
      Discrete sentences.
   
               Very limited.    Covers courtesy expressions, introductions, identification, personal and   accommodation needs, daily routine.
   
            Often speaks with   great difficulty. Pronunciation, stress, intonation generally poor.
   
            Uses greetings and   courtesy expressions.  Can interact with native speakers used to dealing with   non-natives.
   
            Can create   sentences; begin, maintain, and close short conversations by asking and   answering simple questions; satisfy simple daily needs.
   
             2
            The individual can get the gist of most   everyday conversations, but has some difficulty understanding native speakers   in situations that require a specialized or sophisticated knowledge.  (May   require a native speaker to adjust to his/her limitations in some way).  
   
            Discourse is   minimally cohesive.  Grammatical structures are usually not very elaborate   and not thoroughly controlled; errors are frequent.  Simple structure and   basic grammatical relations are typically controlled.  
   
      Full   paragraphs.
   
            Sufficient to   discuss high frequency concrete topics such as work, family, personal   background and interests, travel, current events.  Imprecise for less common   topics.
   
            Speaks with   confidence but not facility.  Can usually be understood by those not used to   dealing with non-natives.
   
            Satisfies routine   social demands and limited work requirements.  Can interact with native   speakers not used to dealing with non-natives; native speakers may have to   adjust to limitations.
   
            Can describe people,   places, and things; narrate current, past, and future activities in full   paragraphs; state facts; give instructions or directions; ask and answer   questions in the work place; deal with non-routine daily situations.
   
             3
            In face-to-face   conversation with natives speaking the standard dialect at a normal rate of   speech, comprehension is quite complete.  Although cultural references,   proverbs, and the implications of nuances and idiom may not be fully   understood, the individual can easily repair the conversation.  
   
            Effectively combines   structure and vocabulary to convey meaning. Discourse is cohesive.  Use of   structural devices is flexible and elaborate.  Errors occur in low frequency   and highly complex structures; but structural inaccuracy rarely causes   misunderstanding.  
   
      Extended discourse.
   
               Broad enough for   effective formal and informal conversations on practical, social, and   professional topics.  Can convey abstract concepts.
   
            Speaks readily and   fills pauses suitably.  Pronunciation may be obviously foreign. Flaws in   stress, intonation, pitch rarely disturb the native speaker.
   
            Uses cultural   references.  When errors are made, can easily repair the conversation.
   
            Can converse   extensively in formal and informal situations; discuss abstract topics;   support opinions; hypothesize; deal with unfamiliar topics and situations;   clarify points.  
   
             4
            Can understand   native speakers of the standard and other major dialects in  essentially any   face-to-face interaction.  Can understand the details and ramifications of   concepts that are culturally or conceptually different from his/her own.    Understands shifts of both subject matter and tone.  
   
            Organizes discourse   well, using appropriate rhetorical devices and high level discourse structures.   
   
      Speeches,   lectures, debates, 
   
      conference   discussions.
   
               Precise for   representational purposes within personal and professional experience.  Can   elaborate concepts freely; choose appropriate words to convey nuances of   meaning.
   
            Speaks effortlessly   and smoothly, but would seldom be perceived as a native speaker.
   
            Uses and   understands details and ramifications of target cultural references. Can set   and shift the tone of exchanges with a variety of native speakers.
   
            Can tailor language   to fit the audience; counsel; persuade; represent an official point of view;   negotiate; advocate a position at length; interpret informally.
   
             5
            (No gaps in   comprehension, including all details and nuances.)
   
            Functionally   equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.  
   
      All texts controlled   by a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.
   
               Breadth of   vocabulary and idiom equivalent to that of a highly articulate, well-educated   native speaker.
   
            Functionally equivalent   to a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker of a standard dialect.
   
            Speech reflects the   cultural standards of country where language is natively spoken.
   
            Functionally   equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.
   
          DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03 (Reverse)
  
          OPI    PERFORMANCE  PROFILE            RATERS
   
            DATE
   
               Check One:
   
            C
   
            S
   
              
            ENTRY
   
            Mid
   
         Exit          
          
                SCN/TEL OPI CODE
   
            RANK/NAME
   
            CY
   
            GRAD DATE
   
            SET CODE
   
            TEACHER/ROOM NO.
   
            VERIFICATION
   
             Interactive Comprehension         Structural   Control / Texts Produced         Lexical Control
              
             
          
             Delivery
         Sociolinguistic Competence
         Global Tasks and Functions
              
             
          
              
          
          
          
          
          
          
          
          
          
          
          
          
          
              DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03
  
   
   
   
                                                    
  
       ----- Original Message ----- 
  
  
      From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
  
    To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
  
    Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:45 AM
  
    Subject: [Assessment 1149] Re: Observation checklist
  
  
     
  
  Ted,
 
 Did you use an oral proficiency interview at the Defense Language
 Institute?  If so, how log did it take to administer to each student?  I
 think time is a real barrier to most adult ESL/ESOL programs.  Thus, they
 use tests that can be administered to students as a group and easily
 evaluated.
 
 For some college programs for international students, a whole range of
 tests are used for placement, including a writing sample, a reading test,
 and an oral interview.  Clearly that's more possible with smaller numbers
 of students who are also paying for the classes.
 
 What do you think is needed in the way of tests?  In Passing the Torch,
 Forrest and I point to assessment as a major issue facing all the colleges
 we studied.  We recommend the development of a test of all four skills
 that, if possible, could be administered and scored in a reasonable amount
 of time.
 
 Have you tried the BEST Plus test?  What has been your experience with
 that test?
 
 I agree that for placement at literacy levels, a simple test developed by
 a program might be sufficient.
 
 I also think that for progress through the levels, student achievement in
 the previous class, as judged by the instructor ("professional wisdom"),
 is still the best determiner of whether a student is ready to go to the
 next level.
 
 Jodi
 
 
 > Jodi,
 >
 > Same here! As long as the BEST Test is used to show gains, I'm afraid that
 > there isn't much chance that REAL gains could be charted and compared. It
 > is used too often to measure progress and is not as good for that purpose
 > as one would hope. Really valid proficiency tests are the only way to
 > prove the point. Achievement tests don't tell much in terms of overall
 > progress. I would also guess that it would take a minimum of 120 hours of
 > solid training to have a measureable level with any test that one could
 > play numbers with. Other factors including attendance, etc. would have to
 > be factored in. Adults have families and jobs in the way of total
 > dedication to attendance. Also, one would have to have a test in which
 > human judgment would play a small role. The BEST is fine for its original
 > purpose, which was to place persons with others at their same levels of
 > communication. Good measurement is the only way to prove anything. I often
 > rely on plain old gut instincts to figure how things are really going. I
 > know that's not very scientific.
 >
 > Cheers,  Ted
 > www.tedklein-ESL.com
 >
 >
 > ----- Original Message -----
 > From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
 > To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
 > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:05 PM
 > Subject: [Assessment 1138] Re: Observation checklist
 >
 >
 > Hi, Ted.  Glad to make contact again.
 >
 > I definitely agree that smaller classes are more likely to bring learner
 > gains, especially in language, since students will have more opportunity
 > to speak when there are fewer students.  I didn't know about the DLI
 > policy, but it is a good one.  The problem with adult ESL classes, I fear,
 > is that there is such limited money available that programs would find it
 > difficult to keep class size to these numbers.
 >
 > Has anyone tried to reduce class size and chart the learning gains?  If
 > so, please share with us all.  It might be that this would be a good
 > investment.  If students in smaller classes make faster gains, then there
 > would be more spaces available as these students transitioned to other
 > classes or the workforce.
 >
 > Jodi
 >
 > Hi Jodi,
 >>
 >> Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times in the
 >> past,
 >> I think at least once when you visited the Defense Language Institute
 >> English Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I
 >> mention
 >> DLI is that it represents a language program with little leeway to fail.
 >> I
 >> spent 20 years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is to train
 >> allied and friendly military personnel worldwide in general and
 >> specialized English. Most students start ESL in their home countries
 >> with
 >> DLIELC personnel advising, and in some cases teaching, in these overseas
 >> military language centers. It may still be the largest language program
 >> in
 >> the world. Students after reaching certain levels go to Lackland Air
 >> Force
 >> Base in San Antonio, complete their general English, usually go through
 >> specialized terminology and then on to whatever training their country
 >> needs with the U.S. military. Students have run the full gamut from
 >> recruits and NCO's up to generals and admirals. This is a very tightly
 >> organized "well-packaged" language program with predictable training
 >> times
 >> and results.
 >>
 >> Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb while I was at
 >> at DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum. This was
 >> rarely broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters' bean
 >> counter would calculate that if a mere two or three students could be
 >> added to a class, voila, look at the money we would save! This money
 >> came
 >> both from foreign governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue and then
 >> try
 >> it, I believe several times over the years. However, in an organization
 >> that has a very effective testing system; both achievement and
 >> proficiency, it was soon noticed that the scores were going down, just
 >> enough so that they could prove that no money was being saved on teacher
 >> salaries and other expenses. I spent three years with the Royal Thai
 >> Navy
 >> for DLI as language training advisor and remember having to twist arms
 >> with the RTN Navy Education Department with the same problem. They
 >> wanted
 >> 15 in a class.
 >>
 >> Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during my last
 >> eight years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes have
 >> consistently been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an
 >> organization is stuck with a low budget, make the hours of training per
 >> week lower, but keep the class sizes within 10 or so students. Fewer
 >> hours
 >> of really effective training are certainly better than large classes
 >> where
 >> the student attention level and collegiality are reduced. I remember
 >> Mary
 >> Finocchiaro saying years ago that she didn't care how many students were
 >> in her classroom, she would teach them! Unfortunately, most of us just
 >> aren't THAT dynamic.
 >>
 >> Cheers,  Ted
 >> www.tedklein-ESL.com
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> ----- Original Message -----
 >> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
 >> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
 >> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM
 >> Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist
 >>
 >>
 >> Usha,
 >>
 >> I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
 >> experience that with more than 10 students, learning decreases?  If so,
 >> how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be
 >> interested
 >> in ways to decrease class size.
 >>
 >> It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
 >> constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more
 >> important
 >> to involve them in activities in which all get to participate, which
 >> means
 >> less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small classes
 >> need that.
 >>
 >> What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?
 >>
 >> You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop out of
 >> classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any of you
 >> keep
 >> records of your students that would identify those who do return?  Do
 >> you
 >> have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning English
 >> outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know of any
 >> research about adult English Language Learners in this area, but there
 >> is
 >> an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State
 >> University
 >> following adult literacy level students for several years.  They have
 >> identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside of the
 >> classroom and also that some of these learners come back to classes
 >> after
 >> being out of them for some time.
 >>
 >> Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of you been
 >> able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of these
 >> services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have been most
 >> effective? If you teach in a community college, have your students had
 >> access to the various support services provided to other students?
 >>
 >> Several of you have talked about the differences in progress made by
 >> students with more advanced education and those who are at literacy
 >> level.
 >>  Because literacy level students take longer in making progress, most
 >> programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and
 >> literate
 >> beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and literacy
 >> will
 >> need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to talk about
 >> what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about
 >> persistence
 >> of literacy level students and their learning gains.
 >>
 >> Students with advanced education in their own language may be able to
 >> have
 >> a condensed program since they are already experienced as students and
 >> often have high motivation to get through English so that they can take
 >> courses related to their previous or future career.  City College of San
 >> Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters worth of
 >> work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer something along
 >> these lines?
 >>
 >> Jodi
 >>
 >>
 >>> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked the tool
 >>> that
 >>> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope that it
 >>> is
 >>> not
 >>> something that has already been asked and answered.
 >>>
 >>> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of our ESL
 >>> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal constraints
 >>> and
 >>> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a positive
 >>> to
 >>> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we expect to see
 >>> more
 >>> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the numbers.
 >>>
 >>> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy programs
 >>> because of many socio-economic factors.
 >>>
 >>> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing market (in
 >>> past
 >>> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to stay in
 >>> one
 >>> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen more in
 >>> people
 >>> who do not have high levels of education from their native country).
 >>>
 >>> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from their
 >>> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some kind of
 >>> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs, go in and
 >>> out
 >>> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of various
 >>> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and have no time
 >>> to
 >>> practice.
 >>>
 >>> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in educational
 >>> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
 >>> availability
 >>> of  community resources.
 >>>
 >>> Usha Narayanan
 >>> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
 >>> California
 >>> 408-522-2737
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
 >>>
 >>>> Marie,
 >>>>
 >>>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and out of the
 >>>> U.S.A.
 >>>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc. in ESL.
 >>>> It
 >>>> is
 >>>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that I'm
 >>>> back
 >>>> in the
 >>>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the Defense
 >>>> Language
 >>>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching immigrants part
 >>>> time for
 >>>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin
 >>>> Community
 >>>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what language
 >>>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to work at a
 >>>> higher
 >>>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I
 >>>> apply
 >>>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy
 >>>> traps."
 >>>> I
 >>>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
 >>>> interested and
 >>>> it is published on my website at
 >>>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel absolutely free
 >>>> to use
 >>>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank you very
 >>>> much for
 >>>> the input. Questions are welcome.
 >>>>
 >>>> Cheers,   Ted
 >>>>
 >>>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
 >>>>   Independent Consultant in Language
 >>>>          and Intercultural Training
 >>>>                 14456 Agarita Road
 >>>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
 >>>>              Phone:512-266-1801
 >>>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
 >>>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
 >>>>
 >>>>
 >>>> ----- Original Message -----
 >>>>>
 >>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Hi  Ted,
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it
 >>>>> yourself?
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try
 >>>>> to
 >>>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do others
 >>>>> you
 >>>>> work with?
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the
 >>>>> students
 >>>>> advance?
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Marie
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
 >>>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
 >>>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
 >>>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
 >>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
 >>>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
 >>>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> Marie,
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> Ted
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
 >>>>>>  NO
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>    supportive personality?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>    other and the instructor?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>     target language  proficiency?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>     than push them?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>     exaggerated speech?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>     results?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> ---- Original Message -----
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Hello  everyone,
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on  regarding
 >>>>>>> your
 >>>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??  I was
 >>>>>>> very
 >>>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
 >>>>>>> that
 >>>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
 >>>>>>> intensity
 >>>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
 >>>>>>> opportunities
 >>>>>>> for  professional development.
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit the ESL
 >>>>>>> student
 >>>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Thanks!
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Marie  Cora
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Marie  Cora
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
 >>>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> -------------------------------
 >>>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
 >>>>>>> Assessment mailing list
 >>>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
 >>>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
 >>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 >>>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> -------------------------------
 >>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
 >>>>> Assessment mailing list
 >>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
 >>>>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings, please go to
 >>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 >>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
 >>>>
 >>>>
 >>>> -------------------------------
 >>>> National Institute for Literacy
 >>>> Assessment mailing list
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 >>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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 >>>> Email delivered to usha_narayanan at fuhsd.org
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 >>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
 >>>
 >>
 >>
 >> --
 >> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
 >> Professor, Education Department
 >> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
 >> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in
 >> ESOL/Bilingual
 >> Education
 >> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
 >> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
 >> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
 >> email: crandall at umbc.edu
 >> www.umbc.edu/llc/
 >> www.umbc.edu/esol/
 >> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> -------------------------------
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 >> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
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 >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
 >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 >> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
 >>
 >
 >
 > --
 > JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
 > Professor, Education Department
 > Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
 > Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
 > Education
 > University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
 > 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
 > ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
 > email: crandall at umbc.edu
 > www.umbc.edu/llc/
 > www.umbc.edu/esol/
 > www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
 >
 >
 >
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 > Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
 > National Institute for Literacy
 > Assessment mailing list
 > Assessment at nifl.gov
 > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
 > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 > Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
 >
 
 
 -- 
 JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
 Professor, Education Department
 Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
 Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
 Education
  University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
   1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
 ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
 email: crandall at umbc.edu
 www.umbc.edu/llc/
 www.umbc.edu/esol/
 www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
 
 
 
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    To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
  
    Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
  
    
   
      JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
  
    Professor and Director
  
    Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
  
    Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
  
    University of Maryland Baltimore County
  
    1000 Hilltop Circle
  
    Baltimore, MD 21250
  
    tel:  410-455-2313
  
    fax: 410-455-8947
  
    eml: crandall at umbc.edu
  
     
  
     
  
  
 
 
  
     
  
    
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From mjjerdems at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  7 19:31:12 2008
From: mjjerdems at yahoo.com (Mary Jane Jerde)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 16:31:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Assessment 1164] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
	Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <A1FACE81B7C82147B9CE6822E2D4A701022A24ED@MCMAIL2.mcnte.mc.cc.md.us>
Message-ID: <571084.73827.qm@web54003.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I was going to write a very similar message based on my experience working under Barbara Denman at the erstwhile refugee program in Prince George's County, Maryland. 

Now that I work in a community college with ESL classes that span the lowest level ESL and academic experience to the higher levels of college credit classes, my experience has grown. The principles of both cooperation and teamwork in learning and separation by level still hold true. Students benefit from knowing that they need to help each other. It's part of our culture, surprise, surprise. The institution where I work has six levels of class for the various language skills, so there's lots of separation by level. 

What I have found myself doing with high beginning students and intermediates with less education in their home countries is preparing them for the grammatical terms that will come their way if they continue to take ESL classes. I also work diligently with them to have a firm grasp of basic English grammar, especially verbs. This will help them at work or if they decide to begin ABE classes, where the grammar focus is not normally on their kind of grammar issues. 

Mary Jane Jerde
ESL Instructor
Howard Community College

"Sadan, Noa" <Noa.Sadan at montgomerycollege.edu> wrote: Years ago, the Montgomery County Refugee Training Program (Montgomery
College, Silver Spring, MD)had highly educated people with no English,
in class with literacy level students. It was certainly difficult
meeting the needs of all students, but in this intensive 20-hours/week
program, a tremendous mutual respect was fostered between the groups.
Typically, the highly educated students raced ahead with reading and
writing, while the literacy students sped ahead with oral language. The
Somali mother of nine would say to the Russian engineer, "I wish I could
read and write like you!", while the Russian woman would reply, "I wish
I could speak like you."

All this ended with a slightly different solution. The Refugee Center,
then under the direction of Donna Kinerney, divided that school day into
separate Listening,Reading and "Homeroom" classes. Homerooom took in all
skills, plus the introduction to the American workplace. This model was
in place when we began to get World English speakers who were not
literate. It provided a solution in which they could study in a
literacy-level reading/writing class, and interact in a higher level
Listening and Homeroom class. 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

Jackie and Forrest,

I think most large programs separate literacy level students from others
who are at a beginning level.  I know that back in the 1980s when there
were large refugee ESL programs, several community colleges created
parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels and even into intermediate
levels, with one set of classes for students with limited literacy or
prior schooling and another for more educated students.  The reason was
that the students with less education made slower progress.  Some of
this is undoubtedly due to the way in which we teach English (requiring
literacy), but it is also because students need to become accustomed to
attending classes, learning to hold and use a pen or pencil, and a wide
range of basic skills that come with being a student in a class.

Those of you who have separate classes for those who need literacy:
Can
you tell us what kind of classes or program you provide?

Those who teach both literacy and more educated learners in the same
class:  Can you let us know how you manage?  What are some ways in which
you accommodate both sets of needs?

Jodi
> Forrest,
>    I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy 
> background and those without. These two groups have such different 
> needs. Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to 
> meet the needs of either group well and I find that often the stronger

> students dominate the class, and their drive push the teacher forward.

> If the instructor does not keep up with the students who are learning 
> at a faster rate, they often become frustrated and leave or mentally 
> check out. However, if the instructor keeps up with those students, 
> the others are unable to keep up and they get frustrated.
>   I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless

> of how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.
> Jackie
>
>
> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman  wrote:
>>
>>  To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor 
>> in student performance:
>>
>>
>>
>> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more 
>> highly educated students do better in terms of  persistence, learning

>> gains, and transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect 
>> this.
>> Regrettably
>> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior 
>> education makes, because too few programs track the level of prior 
>> education of their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of

>> you do this? That is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference 
>> level of prior education makes?
>> Or
>> any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior education

>> that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are completely 
>> illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high school 
>> graduates, college graduates, etc. --  or is level of prior education

>> pretty much of a continuum?
>>
>>
>>
>> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between 
>> highly educated students and those with less prior education? 
>> Presumably students with very low levels of education are more likely

>> end up in the lower level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning 
>> levels) why are (almost by
>> definition)  in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes

>> math.
>> Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at 
>> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it

>> be desirable to place less highly educated students in separate 
>> classes from those with more education and adjust the 
>> curriculum/support systems for them accordingly? Some programs have 
>> tried "native language literacy" or the Spanish GED. What has been 
>> the experience of any of you with these approaches? Any other ideas? 
>> IS there an adult ESL equivalent of "bi-lingual education" that 
>> should be tried?
>>
>>
>>
>> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the

>> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of 
>> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large

>> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that 
>> means), ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very 
>> little education in their native countries and too little money to 
>> serve them.  So anyone who has any ideas about how to bridge this 
>> "education gap" could help us a lot by posting ideas about how to 
>> close it on this discussion list.
>>
>>
>>
>> Forrest Chisman
>>
>> Vice President
>>
>> CAAL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
>> *On
>> Behalf Of *Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
>> *To:* The Assessment Discussion List
>> *Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No 
>> Questions or Comments?!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Jackie,
>>
>> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what 
>> my former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual 
>> education in the K-12 school system.
>>
>> Tina
>>
>> Tina Luffman
>> Coordinator, Developmental Education
>> Verde Valley Campus
>> 928-634-6544
>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>
>>   *"Jackie Coelho" * Sent by: 
>> assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>
>> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM
>>
>> Please respond to
>> The Assessment Discussion List 
>>
>> To
>>
>> "The Assessment Discussion List" 
>>
>> cc
>>
>> Subject
>>
>> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or  
>> Comments?!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Tina,
>>
>> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement 
>> in favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented

>> in the best way. For many years people have known that a good 
>> foundation in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning

>> in a second or third language.
>>
>> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not 
>> written.
>>
>> Jackie
>>
>>
>> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu  wrote:
>> > Hi list members,
>> >
>> > My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to
>> that
>> of
>> > Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the 
>> > country
>> they
>> > came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather
>> quickly
>> and
>> > get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their
>> country
>> or
>> > lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much 
>> > advancement.
>> >
>> > This experience relates well to research done among Native American
>> tribes
>> > teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
>> literacy
>> > skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those 
>> > who
>> tried
>> > to learn literacy skills in English without that background in 
>> > their
>> own
>> > tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. 
>> > The concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish 
>> > were much
>> easier
>> > to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps 
>> > this
>> is
>> > something deserving more research.
>> >
>> > Tina
>> > Tina Luffman
>> > Coordinator, Developmental Education Verde Valley Campus
>> > 928-634-6544
>> > tina_luffman at yc.edu
>> >
>> > -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>> >
>> > To: "The Assessment Discussion List" 
>> > From: "Gail Burnett"  Sent by: 
>> > assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>> > Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
>> > Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or

>> > Comments?!
>> >
>> >
>> > Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
>> > Warning: (not named).
>> > Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for
>> more
>> > information.
>> >
>> > In our small adult education program, my experience (just about 
>> > three
>> years)
>> > is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
>> particularly if
>> > they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, 
>> > if
>> at
>> > all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first 
>> > language. I
>> would
>> > say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a
>> student
>> > who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed 
>> > because
>> he/she
>> > is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is
>> try
>> to
>> > get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
>> concept
>> > in a second language.
>> >
>> > This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't
>> play
>> a
>> > part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers 
>> > (transitioned
>> from
>> > another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
>> classes).
>> > My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow
advancement.
>> It's
>> > hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
>> teachers.
>> > The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is
>> encouraging
>> me
>> > to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think
>> we're
>> > making some progress.
>> >
>> > Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> >
>> > From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
>> > Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
>> > To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>> > Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>> >
>> >
>> > Hello everyone,
>> >
>> > I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your

>> > program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was 
>> > very curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of 
>> > issues
>> that
>> Dr.
>> > Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of 
>> > intensity
>> of
>> > instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few 
>> > opportunities
>> for
>> > professional development.
>> >
>> > What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>> student
>> > from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
>> >
>> > Please post your questions and comments now.
>> >
>> > Thanks!
>> >
>> > Marie Cora
>> > Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>> >
>> >
>> > Marie Cora
>> > marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>> > 
>> > NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator 
>> > 
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> >
>> >
>> > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>> intended
>> > solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>> addressed.
>> > If you have received this email in error please notify the system
>> manager.
>> > This message contains confidential information and is intended only
>> for
>> the
>> > individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not

>> > disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
>> > -------------------------------
>> > National Institute for Literacy
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>> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
>> > 
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> > Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>> >
>> >
>> > -------------------------------
>> > National Institute for Literacy
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>> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
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>> >
>> >
>> >
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>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
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>>
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> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
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>


--
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture Coordinator,
Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC) 1000 Hilltop Circle,
Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html



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From crandall at umbc.edu  Thu Feb  7 20:17:49 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (Jodi Crandall)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 20:17:49 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1165] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <142680.92048.qm@web54007.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <142680.92048.qm@web54007.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0FA3F320-ACE2-46C1-AA0E-2AB1B06274CA@umbc.edu>

Mary Jane,

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

Do you also use a reading and/or writing test at any of the adult  
ESOL levels?

Jodi
On Feb 7, 2008, at 7:18 PM, Mary Jane Jerde wrote:

> As an ESL instructor who has used BEST Plus for pre-test and post- 
> test scoring in grant funded classes, I have found the test to be  
> an accurate gauge of student placement and growth in English.
>
> One advantage is that I have been able to test new students myself  
> and have post-testing done by various other ABE or ESL instructors.  
> They were all trained by BEST Plus staff. Before a test session the  
> examiner and I go through a review. I have sat with the examiners  
> for initial post-test sessions to have them gain confidence in  
> their abilities. But I had faith that a "subjective" test could be  
> accurate because I had used BEST for seven years in a refugee  
> program and knew it's value for placement.
>
> The program does a fine job of adjusting level of difficulty based  
> on feedback from responses.
>
> Is one test ever enough? No. But I have enjoyed the benefit of  
> being able to use both CASAS and BEST Plus in smaller community  
> programs.
>
> Mary Jane Jerde
> ESL Instructor
> Howard Community College
>
>
>
> "Cohen, Jonathan" <Jonathan.Cohen at dol.state.nj.us> wrote:
> Good reply.
> Jon
>
> Jonathan Cohen
> Workforce Readiness & Literacy
> NJ Dept. of Labor & Workforce Development
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Michelle Ueland
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 4:10 PM
> To: The Assessment Discussion List
> Subject: [Assessment 1158] Re: Observation checklist
>
>
> Dear Assessment Listserv Members,
> It is with great interest that we have been following this  
> discussion regarding one of our assessments, BEST Plus, and its use  
> for oral proficiency meaurement on initial placement and learner  
> progress.
> As other assessments have been brought into the discussion, we  
> would like to provide the following clarification, taken verbatim  
> from the DLIELC Website: http://www.dlielc.org/testing/ALCPT.html :  
> "DLIELC conducts English language proficiency testing using the  
> Oral Proficiency Interview (OPI), a face-to-face or telephonic  
> interview, and the English Comprehension Level (ECL) test, a  
> multiple choice test of listening and reading comprehension. (The  
> ECL test is provided to authorized US Government users only.)  
> DLIELC also makes available the American Language Course Placement  
> Test (ALCPT) for English language programs conducted outside of  
> DLIELC. Achievement testing of American Language Course (ALC)  
> objectives is conducted using book quizzes and performance tests,  
> which can be obtained with the course materials."
> According to the April 2007 edition of the Handbook for the  
> American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT): "The most  
> important consideration under the general topic of test security is  
> test compromise. One of the easiest ways to compromise any test is  
> through its inappropriate use." Given the definitions above, there  
> are many reasons to question the appropriateness of using any of  
> the above mentioned tests with the adult ESL population in the U.S.
> Currently, BEST Plus is the only assessment developed specifically  
> for use with adult English language learners in educational  
> programs, which simultaneously measures adults' listening and  
> speaking skills. As the BEST Plus Level Gain study shows ( http:// 
> www.cal.org/resources/digest/levelgain.html ), more hours equals  
> more gains, whether that be during one academic year (intensity of  
> instruction) or over an adult's lifetime (persistence as a  
> learner). Furthermore, this study also shows that not only is BEST  
> Plus appropriate for initial placement, but it is also a good  
> measure of student progress. In many ways, BEST Plus brings the  
> knowledge and design of other oral proficiency instruments to the  
> field of adult ESL in a highly accessible manner. Test  
> administrations are relatively inexpensive when compared to the  
> high cost of other oral proficiency assessments, the results  
> accurate and immediate, and for the first time, instructors are  
> able to confirm many of their "gut instinct" and "handshake"  
> evaluations based on their expertise and familiarity with the adult  
> ESL population in a standardized manner that is scored by a common  
> rubric.
> In regard to test administrator training, another advantage to BEST  
> Plus is that ESL instructors are able to engage in professional  
> development in the area of proficiency assessment. Across the  
> country, responses to BEST Plus training are overwhelmingly  
> positive. Our core of trainers does fantastic work to educate  
> practitioners about the differences between being a good teacher  
> and being a good standardized test administrator, in addition to  
> training test administrators to administer and score BEST Plus.  
> Furthermore, there are several opportunities for previously trained  
> test administrators to recalibrate their scoring accuracy through  
> the use of the Scoring Refresher Toolkit within their local  
> programs and states. In this way, programs can confirm their inter- 
> rater reliability, as CAL has also done during the development and  
> design of BEST Plus. We would encourage anyone interested in  
> finding out more about the design of BEST Plus and its high rate of  
> inter-rater reliability to read the BEST Plus Technical Manual.
> Finally, we hope that programs using BEST Plus continue to see the  
> benefits of providing adults ESL learners with data regarding their  
> oral proficiency level and progress. Particularly adults with many  
> commitments need this type of information offered at their  
> convenience locally by their service providers. By knowing their  
> levels, program directors and instructors can to continue to make  
> instructional and programatic decisions based on learner needs and  
> to assist the learners in their own educational goal setting.
> Michelle M. Ueland
> Adult ESL Assessments
> Center for Applied Linguistics
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:27 PM
> To: The Assessment Discussion List
> Subject: [Assessment 1157] Re: Observation checklist
> Ted and all,
>
> I imagine others would like to have access to the ALCPT information  
> as well.
>
> I have also given the OPI, not as a certified interviewer but with  
> a lot of training in its use.  I use it  as part of information  
> gathering in reviewing programs overseas, to see what various  
> levels of instruction correspond to in proficiency terms. I haven't  
> used it with adult ESL population.  Like Mary Margaret, I have  
> found that it takes about the same amount of time.
>
> Do others have the same concerns about the BEST Plus?
>
> Jodi
>
> On Feb 7, 2008, at 12:58 PM, Ted Klein wrote:
>> Jodi,
>>
>> My wife, Mary Margaret, was a certified OPI interviewer at DLI.  
>> She says that the average interview was 20 minutes. This depends  
>> on the interviewee's level. Two people interview. The higher the  
>> level, the longer the test. It's a really good test. The bad news  
>> is that there is/was something like a 40% failure rate for  
>> certification of interviewer among instructors and staff. Some of  
>> these people were pretty sharp, but doing it is an art and a  
>> science. There is no question the OPI is the state-of-the-art.  
>> Even experienced interviewers get frequent tune-ups. I believe  
>> that the OPI scoring system with the + indicating 60% of the next  
>> higher level COULD be simplified and adapted to adult education.  
>> However, if progress has to be shown as often as now, real  
>> proficiency doesn't change that fast and could cost programs $  
>> when they submit their paperwork.  IF it were done after maybe 120  
>> class hours, there may be significant changes.
>>
>> Although I got the training, I bribe other people to do the BEST  
>> Plus on my students, including Mary Margaret! I think that it's  
>> fine for placement, but really doesn't work for "progress" for a  
>> number of reasons. Even when people are trained to use it  
>> properly, there is enormous difference, even in how the  
>> interviewers expresses themselves orally and make scores. If we  
>> have to continue using the BEST tests, another thing that I would  
>> like to see is small teams of really good and consistent  
>> interviewers that do the tests on all of the students. A weak  
>> measurement system is the Achilles Heel in Adult Education.
>>
>> I would prefer the use of the American Language Course Placement  
>> Test (ALCPT). If you will give me an e-mail address that is  
>> convenient, I will send you more information on it from my old  
>> workshops. It's cheaper, quicker, and quite accurate. I totally  
>> agree with you that teacher wisdom is also a good way to determine  
>> where and when the student should move on. Unfortunately, many  
>> managers don't trust the peasants! There are also several good  
>> ways to place people that don't involve their ability to read the  
>> ALCPT.
>>
>> I put out an Adult Education/ESL Newsletter once in a while. I  
>> recently did an article on the OPI, which may answer more of the  
>> questions. Here it is:
>>
>>
>> Adult Education/ESL News Letter; the Federal Oral Proficiency  
>> Interview   Jan. 8, 2008    Ted Klein
>>
>> For many years the Foreign Service Institute (FSI) of the United  
>> States conducted interviews of foreign language proficiency to  
>> measure the understanding and production of languages acquired by  
>> their staff. This test was also used by some other federal  
>> agencies and was adapted by some civilian language programs as a  
>> measure of their graduates. This test expressed performance using  
>> scores ranging from zero to five. For decades it was the best game  
>> in town. The problem is that both the interview techniques and  
>> scoring systems in the FSI exam were not as objective as needed  
>> for some persons, whose jobs required very specific scores that  
>> would be important to accomplishment of their missions.
>>
>> Language proficiency testing needs have always depended on the  
>> terminal objectives of the students. In most cases, a well- 
>> designed comprehension test is adequate and may be used for  
>> language class placement, graduation criteria, determination of  
>> readiness for certain jobs, training, or education, etc. During my  
>> twenty years with the Defense Language Institute English Language  
>> Center, all students were tested with the English Comprehension  
>> Level (ECL) test, which was developed as an overall measure of  
>> listening and reading skills. This test was developed and  
>> maintained by individuals whose primary expertise was in valid  
>> measurement procedures assisted by a team of persons who developed  
>> multiple choice test items that were based more on their language  
>> expertise than math. Scores were in a sense arbitrary and didn't  
>> represent a "percentage" of anything. However the use of an ECL  
>> test to determine readiness for international military personnel  
>> from many countries to participate in U.S.military training was  
>> considered a very reliable source of measuring English-language  
>> readiness. The test measured listening and reading skills and was  
>> "loaded" with numerous structural, vocabulary and phonological  
>> factors. It was multiple choice and could be administered in an  
>> hour to a large group of students. Students went on from DLIELC  
>> for training as pilots, staff college attendees, electronics  
>> specialists, medical personnel, etc. and enjoyed a very low  
>> failure rate due to language factors. Often, the comprehension  
>> scores tended to reflect competence in spoken English, because  
>> most of these students had acquired English in a balanced  
>> environment of listening, speaking, reading and writing skills.  
>> The DLIELC program itself was fairly uniform in which all American  
>> Language Course materials were systematically provided for  
>> specific lengths of time to teaching staff trained to use specific  
>> methodologies. DLIELC students normally start their training in  
>> their home countries and later go to Lackland Air Force Base in  
>> San Antonio to finish general English when their ECL scores meet  
>> predetermined criteria to continue to continue on to study  
>> specialized terminology.
>>
>> In the 1980's a gentleman from the Central Intelligence Agency was  
>> tasked with the production of a more objective oral language  
>> measurement system than the FSI exam, with truly meaningful scores  
>> and criteria. He accomplished that mission and the new Oral  
>> Proficiency Interview (OPI) examination was designed. That's the  
>> good news! The bad news is that it is both an art and a science to  
>> administer. A copy of the criteria and rating factors is below. It  
>> can be found at the DLIELC website at http://www.dlielc.org/ 
>> testing/opi_profile.html  This OPI took care of the majority of  
>> the problems with the older FSI exam, including a very tight and  
>> variable interview system in which persons were taken to their  
>> highest level of oral communication. Both listening and speaking  
>> skills receive a score. The chart below reflects whole number  
>> judgments with a performance-based description of what the person  
>> being tested can do with the language. The problem is that even  
>> after two weeks of training persons to administer the test, there  
>> is a rather high failure rate among tester candidates. At one time  
>> potential interviewer failures rates were as high as 40%. Tests  
>> are administered by pairs of persons who have to agree on a score.  
>> I have seen persons with graduate degrees in linguistics fail to  
>> become certified interviewers and persons with much less technical  
>> expertise succeed and become very competent certified  
>> interviewers. The OPI is now used in numerous programs throughout  
>> the military, intelligence and diplomatic communities. It is NOT  
>> used in place of other valid testing instruments. It is reserved  
>> as a supplement for persons in which a known language production  
>> level is required. This may include persons who will be air  
>> traffic controllers or pilots in which verbal communication skills  
>> can be critical.
>>
>> The ROTC programs at the University of Puerto Rico require OPI  
>> scores for their cadets who become officers in the U.S. military  
>> establishment. They also have required ECL scores, and candidates  
>> must also be verbally competent in spoken English to get their  
>> commissions and succeed in adequate communication for their jobs  
>> in the military. The required score to enroll in the ROTC program  
>> is an ECL of 75 and an OPI score of 2/1+. One year later the  
>> required ECL score is 80 with a 2/2 OPI. To be commissioned in  
>> the  U.S. Military the required ECL is 90 and the required OPI is 2 
>> +/2. The first number (2+) reflects listening comprehension and  
>> the second number reflects speaking ability. When we include the +  
>> (plus) designation, this means that the candidate performs at the  
>> next higher level at least 60% of the time. Therefore, if we go  
>> from 0 (no competence) to five (educated native speaker  
>> competence) there are eleven possible levels including the pluses.  
>> The difficult part for most interviewers is reaching the  
>> candidates' real levels, measuring objectively, and having each  
>> interview so different from the last one that the possibility of  
>> compromise through information sharing is very unlikely. An ECL  
>> score of 90 is equivalent to a TOEFL score of 550, which is  
>> adequate for an international student to get into many American  
>> universities. The American Language Course Proficiency Test  
>> (ALCPT) is made from expired ECL tests and can be made available  
>> to civilian institutions.
>>
>> Why am I telling you about all of this? I was in management work  
>> at DLIELC when the OPI system was introduced and never had reason  
>> to become a certified interviewer. However, what I find exciting  
>> is that the OPI Rating Factor Grid below describes the natural  
>> sequence in which our ESL students acquire English. It is a  
>> recapitulation of the entire never-ending process of getting a new  
>> language. I'm guessing that average competent foreign language  
>> majors in a good university would graduate with a 3/3 OPI score in  
>> their target languages. The numbers in the OPI can only hint at  
>> how long and complicated a process we have to go through to really  
>> be truly functional in a second language. For travelling or living  
>> in another country for a while, 2/1+ is a very reasonable goal.  
>> The chart should give ESL instructors strong insight into both  
>> teaching objectives and what their students are going through.
>>
>> There is a short general article on my website about language  
>> testing at
>>  http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/lang_tests.html
>>
>>
>> Ted
>>
>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>>   Independent Consultant in Language
>>          and Intercultural Training
>>               14456 Agarita Road
>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>>              Phone:512-266-1801
>>               taklein at austin.rr.com
>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> OPI  RATING  FACTOR  GRID
>>
>> Interactive Comprehension
>> Structural Control  Texts Produced
>> Lexical Control
>> Delivery
>> Sociolinguistic Competence
>> Global Tasks and Functions
>> 0+
>> The individual understands a number of short, memorized utterances  
>> in areas of immediate needs; frequent, long pauses and repeated  
>> requests for repetition.
>> No control. Can only use memorized structures.
>> Individual words and phrases.
>> Memorized words and phrases related to immediate survival needs.
>> Even in memorized speech, stress, intonation, tone usually quite  
>> faulty.
>> Severely limited.  Any knowledge of cultural appropriateness has a  
>> nonlinguistic source
>> Can make statements and ask questions using memorized material.
>> 1
>> A native speaker must often use slowed speech, repetition,  
>> paraphrase, or a combination of these to be understood by this  
>> individual.  Misunderstandings are frequent, but the individual is  
>> able to ask for help and to verify comprehension of native speech  
>> in face-to-face interaction.
>> Structural accuracy is random or severely limited.  Almost every  
>> utterance has errors in basic structures.  Time concepts are  
>> vague.  Can formulate some questions.
>> Discrete sentences.
>> Very limited.  Covers courtesy expressions, introductions,  
>> identification, personal and accommodation needs, daily routine.
>> Often speaks with great difficulty. Pronunciation, stress,  
>> intonation generally poor.
>> Uses greetings and courtesy expressions.  Can interact with native  
>> speakers used to dealing with non-natives.
>> Can create sentences; begin, maintain, and close short  
>> conversations by asking and   answering simple questions; satisfy  
>> simple daily needs.
>> 2
>> The individual can get the gist of most everyday conversations,  
>> but has some difficulty understanding native speakers in  
>> situations that require a specialized or sophisticated knowledge.   
>> (May require a native speaker to adjust to his/her limitations in  
>> some way).
>> Discourse is minimally cohesive.  Grammatical structures are  
>> usually not very elaborate and not thoroughly controlled; errors  
>> are frequent.  Simple structure and basic grammatical relations  
>> are typically controlled.
>> Full paragraphs.
>> Sufficient to discuss high frequency concrete topics such as work,  
>> family, personal   background and interests, travel, current  
>> events.  Imprecise for less common topics.
>> Speaks with confidence but not facility.  Can usually be  
>> understood by those not used to dealing with non-natives.
>> Satisfies routine social demands and limited work requirements.   
>> Can interact with native speakers not used to dealing with non- 
>> natives; native speakers may have to adjust to limitations.
>> Can describe people, places, and things; narrate current, past,  
>> and future activities in full   paragraphs; state facts; give  
>> instructions or directions; ask and answer questions in the work  
>> place; deal with non-routine daily situations.
>> 3
>> In face-to-face conversation with natives speaking the standard  
>> dialect at a normal rate of speech, comprehension is quite  
>> complete.  Although cultural references, proverbs, and the  
>> implications of nuances and idiom may not be fully understood, the  
>> individual can easily repair the conversation.
>> Effectively combines structure and vocabulary to convey meaning.  
>> Discourse is cohesive.  Use of structural devices is flexible and  
>> elaborate.  Errors occur in low frequency and highly complex  
>> structures; but structural inaccuracy rarely causes misunderstanding.
>> Extended discourse.
>> Broad enough for effective formal and informal conversations on  
>> practical, social, and professional topics.  Can convey abstract  
>> concepts.
>> Speaks readily and fills pauses suitably.  Pronunciation may be  
>> obviously foreign. Flaws in stress, intonation, pitch rarely  
>> disturb the native speaker.
>> Uses cultural references.  When errors are made, can easily repair  
>> the conversation.
>> Can converse   extensively in formal and informal situations;  
>> discuss abstract topics; support opinions; hypothesize; deal with  
>> unfamiliar topics and situations; clarify points.
>> 4
>> Can understand native speakers of the standard and other major  
>> dialects in  essentially any face-to-face interaction.  Can  
>> understand the details and ramifications of concepts that are  
>> culturally or conceptually different from his/her own.   
>> Understands shifts of both subject matter and tone.
>> Organizes discourse well, using appropriate rhetorical devices and  
>> high level discourse structures.
>> Speeches, lectures, debates,
>> conference discussions.
>> Precise for representational purposes within personal and  
>> professional experience.  Can elaborate concepts freely; choose  
>> appropriate words to convey nuances of meaning.
>> Speaks effortlessly and smoothly, but would seldom be perceived as  
>> a native speaker.
>> Uses and understands details and ramifications of target cultural  
>> references. Can set   and shift the tone of exchanges with a  
>> variety of native speakers.
>> Can tailor language to fit the audience; counsel; persuade;  
>> represent an official point of view; negotiate; advocate a  
>> position at length; interpret informally.
>> 5
>> (No gaps in comprehension, including all details and nuances.)
>> Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated  
>> native speaker.
>> All texts controlled   by a highly articulate, well-educated  
>> native speaker.
>> Breadth of vocabulary and idiom equivalent to that of a highly  
>> articulate, well-educated native speaker.
>> Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated  
>> native speaker of a standard dialect.
>> Speech reflects the cultural standards of country where language  
>> is natively spoken.
>> Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated  
>> native speaker.
>> DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03 (Reverse)
>> OPI  PERFORMANCE  PROFILE
>> RATERS
>> DATE
>> Check One:
>> C
>> S
>>
>> ENTRY
>> Mid
>> Exit
>>
>>
>> SCN/TEL OPI CODE
>> RANK/NAME
>> CY
>> GRAD DATE
>> SET CODE
>> TEACHER/ROOM NO.
>> VERIFICATION
>> Interactive Comprehension
>>
>> Structural Control / Texts Produced
>>
>> Lexical Control
>>
>>
>>
>> Delivery
>> Sociolinguistic Competence
>> Global Tasks and Functions
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:45 AM
>> Subject: [Assessment 1149] Re: Observation checklist
>>
>> Ted,
>>
>> Did you use an oral proficiency interview at the Defense Language
>> Institute?  If so, how log did it take to administer to each  
>> student?  I
>> think time is a real barrier to most adult ESL/ESOL programs.   
>> Thus, they
>> use tests that can be administered to students as a group and easily
>> evaluated.
>>
>> For some college programs for international students, a whole  
>> range of
>> tests are used for placement, including a writing sample, a  
>> reading test,
>> and an oral interview.  Clearly that's more possible with smaller  
>> numbers
>> of students who are also paying for the classes.
>>
>> What do you think is needed in the way of tests?  In Passing the  
>> Torch,
>> Forrest and I point to assessment as a major issue facing all the  
>> colleges
>> we studied.  We recommend the development of a test of all four  
>> skills
>> that, if possible, could be administered and scored in a  
>> reasonable amount
>> of time.
>>
>> Have you tried the BEST Plus test?  What has been your experience  
>> with
>> that test?
>>
>> I agree that for placement at literacy levels, a simple test  
>> developed by
>> a program might be sufficient.
>>
>> I also think that for progress through the levels, student  
>> achievement in
>> the previous class, as judged by the instructor ("professional  
>> wisdom"),
>> is still the best determiner of whether a student is ready to go  
>> to the
>> next level.
>>
>> Jodi
>>
>>
>> > Jodi,
>> >
>> > Same here! As long as the BEST Test is used to show gains, I'm  
>> afraid that
>> > there isn't much chance that REAL gains could be charted and  
>> compared. It
>> > is used too often to measure progress and is not as good for  
>> that purpose
>> > as one would hope. Really valid proficiency tests are the only  
>> way to
>> > prove the point. Achievement tests don't tell much in terms of  
>> overall
>> > progress. I would also guess that it would take a minimum of 120  
>> hours of
>> > solid training to have a measureable level with any test that  
>> one could
>> > play numbers with. Other factors including attendance, etc.  
>> would have to
>> > be factored in. Adults have families and jobs in the way of total
>> > dedication to attendance. Also, one would have to have a test in  
>> which
>> > human judgment would play a small role. The BEST is fine for its  
>> original
>> > purpose, which was to place persons with others at their same  
>> levels of
>> > communication. Good measurement is the only way to prove  
>> anything. I often
>> > rely on plain old gut instincts to figure how things are really  
>> going. I
>> > know that's not very scientific.
>> >
>> > Cheers,  Ted
>> > www.tedklein-ESL.com
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
>> > To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:05 PM
>> > Subject: [Assessment 1138] Re: Observation checklist
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi, Ted.  Glad to make contact again.
>> >
>> > I definitely agree that smaller classes are more likely to bring  
>> learner
>> > gains, especially in language, since students will have more  
>> opportunity
>> > to speak when there are fewer students.  I didn't know about the  
>> DLI
>> > policy, but it is a good one.  The problem with adult ESL  
>> classes, I fear,
>> > is that there is such limited money available that programs  
>> would find it
>> > difficult to keep class size to these numbers.
>> >
>> > Has anyone tried to reduce class size and chart the learning  
>> gains?  If
>> > so, please share with us all.  It might be that this would be a  
>> good
>> > investment.  If students in smaller classes make faster gains,  
>> then there
>> > would be more spaces available as these students transitioned to  
>> other
>> > classes or the workforce.
>> >
>> > Jodi
>> >
>> > Hi Jodi,
>> >>
>> >> Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times  
>> in the
>> >> past,
>> >> I think at least once when you visited the Defense Language  
>> Institute
>> >> English Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I
>> >> mention
>> >> DLI is that it represents a language program with little leeway  
>> to fail.
>> >> I
>> >> spent 20 years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is  
>> to train
>> >> allied and friendly military personnel worldwide in general and
>> >> specialized English. Most students start ESL in their home  
>> countries
>> >> with
>> >> DLIELC personnel advising, and in some cases teaching, in these  
>> overseas
>> >> military language centers. It may still be the largest language  
>> program
>> >> in
>> >> the world. Students after reaching certain levels go to  
>> Lackland Air
>> >> Force
>> >> Base in San Antonio, complete their general English, usually go  
>> through
>> >> specialized terminology and then on to whatever training their  
>> country
>> >> needs with the U.S. military. Students have run the full gamut  
>> from
>> >> recruits and NCO's up to generals and admirals. This is a very  
>> tightly
>> >> organized "well-packaged" language program with predictable  
>> training
>> >> times
>> >> and results.
>> >>
>> >> Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb while  
>> I was at
>> >> at DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum.  
>> This was
>> >> rarely broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters'  
>> bean
>> >> counter would calculate that if a mere two or three students  
>> could be
>> >> added to a class, voila, look at the money we would save! This  
>> money
>> >> came
>> >> both from foreign governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue  
>> and then
>> >> try
>> >> it, I believe several times over the years. However, in an  
>> organization
>> >> that has a very effective testing system; both achievement and
>> >> proficiency, it was soon noticed that the scores were going  
>> down, just
>> >> enough so that they could prove that no money was being saved  
>> on teacher
>> >> salaries and other expenses. I spent three years with the Royal  
>> Thai
>> >> Navy
>> >> for DLI as language training advisor and remember having to  
>> twist arms
>> >> with the RTN Navy Education Department with the same problem. They
>> >> wanted
>> >> 15 in a class.
>> >>
>> >> Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during  
>> my last
>> >> eight years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes have
>> >> consistently been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an
>> >> organization is stuck with a low budget, make the hours of  
>> training per
>> >> week lower, but keep the class sizes within 10 or so students.  
>> Fewer
>> >> hours
>> >> of really effective training are certainly better than large  
>> classes
>> >> where
>> >> the student attention level and collegiality are reduced. I  
>> remember
>> >> Mary
>> >> Finocchiaro saying years ago that she didn't care how many  
>> students were
>> >> in her classroom, she would teach them! Unfortunately, most of  
>> us just
>> >> aren't THAT dynamic.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,  Ted
>> >> www.tedklein-ESL.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
>> >> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM
>> >> Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Usha,
>> >>
>> >> I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
>> >> experience that with more than 10 students, learning  
>> decreases?  If so,
>> >> how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be
>> >> interested
>> >> in ways to decrease class size.
>> >>
>> >> It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
>> >> constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more
>> >> important
>> >> to involve them in activities in which all get to participate,  
>> which
>> >> means
>> >> less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small  
>> classes
>> >> need that.
>> >>
>> >> What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?
>> >>
>> >> You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop  
>> out of
>> >> classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any  
>> of you
>> >> keep
>> >> records of your students that would identify those who do  
>> return?  Do
>> >> you
>> >> have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning  
>> English
>> >> outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know  
>> of any
>> >> research about adult English Language Learners in this area,  
>> but there
>> >> is
>> >> an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State
>> >> University
>> >> following adult literacy level students for several years.   
>> They have
>> >> identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside  
>> of the
>> >> classroom and also that some of these learners come back to  
>> classes
>> >> after
>> >> being out of them for some time.
>> >>
>> >> Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of  
>> you been
>> >> able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of  
>> these
>> >> services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have  
>> been most
>> >> effective? If you teach in a community college, have your  
>> students had
>> >> access to the various support services provided to other students?
>> >>
>> >> Several of you have talked about the differences in progress  
>> made by
>> >> students with more advanced education and those who are at  
>> literacy
>> >> level.
>> >>  Because literacy level students take longer in making  
>> progress, most
>> >> programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and
>> >> literate
>> >> beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and  
>> literacy
>> >> will
>> >> need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to  
>> talk about
>> >> what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about
>> >> persistence
>> >> of literacy level students and their learning gains.
>> >>
>> >> Students with advanced education in their own language may be  
>> able to
>> >> have
>> >> a condensed program since they are already experienced as  
>> students and
>> >> often have high motivation to get through English so that they  
>> can take
>> >> courses related to their previous or future career.  City  
>> College of San
>> >> Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters  
>> worth of
>> >> work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer  
>> something along
>> >> these lines?
>> >>
>> >> Jodi
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked  
>> the tool
>> >>> that
>> >>> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope  
>> that it
>> >>> is
>> >>> not
>> >>> something that has already been asked and answered.
>> >>>
>> >>> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most  
>> of our ESL
>> >>> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal  
>> constraints
>> >>> and
>> >>> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a  
>> positive
>> >>> to
>> >>> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we  
>> expect to see
>> >>> more
>> >>> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the  
>> numbers.
>> >>>
>> >>> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy  
>> programs
>> >>> because of many socio-economic factors.
>> >>>
>> >>> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing  
>> market (in
>> >>> past
>> >>> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to  
>> stay in
>> >>> one
>> >>> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen  
>> more in
>> >>> people
>> >>> who do not have high levels of education from their native  
>> country).
>> >>>
>> >>> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from  
>> their
>> >>> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some  
>> kind of
>> >>> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs,  
>> go in and
>> >>> out
>> >>> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of  
>> various
>> >>> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and  
>> have no time
>> >>> to
>> >>> practice.
>> >>>
>> >>> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in  
>> educational
>> >>> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
>> >>> availability
>> >>> of  community resources.
>> >>>
>> >>> Usha Narayanan
>> >>> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
>> >>> California
>> >>> 408-522-2737
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Marie,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and  
>> out of the
>> >>>> U.S.A.
>> >>>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc.  
>> in ESL.
>> >>>> It
>> >>>> is
>> >>>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say  
>> that I'm
>> >>>> back
>> >>>> in the
>> >>>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the  
>> Defense
>> >>>> Language
>> >>>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching  
>> immigrants part
>> >>>> time for
>> >>>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at  
>> Austin
>> >>>> Community
>> >>>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what  
>> language
>> >>>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to  
>> work at a
>> >>>> higher
>> >>>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope  
>> that I
>> >>>> apply
>> >>>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy
>> >>>> traps."
>> >>>> I
>> >>>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
>> >>>> interested and
>> >>>> it is published on my website at
>> >>>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel  
>> absolutely free
>> >>>> to use
>> >>>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank  
>> you very
>> >>>> much for
>> >>>> the input. Questions are welcome.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Cheers,   Ted
>> >>>>
>> >>>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>> >>>>   Independent Consultant in Language
>> >>>>          and Intercultural Training
>> >>>>               14456 Agarita Road
>> >>>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>> >>>>              Phone:512-266-1801
>> >>>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
>> >>>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Hi  Ted,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it
>> >>>>> yourself?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you  
>> deliberately try
>> >>>>> to
>> >>>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or  
>> do others
>> >>>>> you
>> >>>>> work with?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the
>> >>>>> students
>> >>>>> advance?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Marie
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>> >>>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
>> >>>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
>> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
>> >>>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>> >>>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Marie,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Ted
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
>> >>>>>>  NO
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    supportive personality?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    other and the instructor?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>     target language  proficiency?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>     than push them?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>     exaggerated speech?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>     results?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> ---- Original Message -----
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Hello  everyone,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on   
>> regarding
>> >>>>>>> your
>> >>>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students   
>> advance??  I was
>> >>>>>>> very
>> >>>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types  
>> of issues
>> >>>>>>> that
>> >>>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a  
>> lack of
>> >>>>>>> intensity
>> >>>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
>> >>>>>>> opportunities
>> >>>>>>> for  professional development.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit  
>> the ESL
>> >>>>>>> student
>> >>>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Thanks!
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
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>> >> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
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>> > Professor, Education Department
>> > Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
>> > Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/ 
>> Bilingual
>> > Education
>> > University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
>> > 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
>> > ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
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>> -- 
>> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>> Professor, Education Department
>> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
>> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/ 
>> Bilingual
>> Education
>> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
>> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
>> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
>> email: crandall at umbc.edu
>> www.umbc.edu/llc/
>> www.umbc.edu/esol/
>> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
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>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
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>
> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Professor and Director
> Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
> Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual  
> Education
> University of Maryland Baltimore County
> 1000 Hilltop Circle
> Baltimore, MD 21250
> tel:  410-455-2313
> fax: 410-455-8947
> eml: crandall at umbc.edu
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
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> Assessment mailing list
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> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
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> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor and Director
Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
University of Maryland Baltimore County
1000 Hilltop Circle
Baltimore, MD 21250
tel:  410-455-2313
fax: 410-455-8947
eml: crandall at umbc.edu




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From crandall at umbc.edu  Thu Feb  7 20:24:31 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (Jodi Crandall)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 20:24:31 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1166] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <63733377F5D386419FE59FCB038725EF0B544FEE@EXCHANGE.njdol.ad.dol>
References: <C3CE4BCC.8F31%usha_narayanan@fuhsd.org><52294.130.85.83.224.1202268183.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><001e01c868c8$49636de0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75><49507.130.85.83.224.1202328350.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><007e01c86927$0ca72220$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75><50639.138.88.30.77.1202391909.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><001801c869b3$01219660$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75><9A537A75-618C-402D-8F6E-EDEA8C0DF840@umbc.edu>
	<7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F02F33CB7@MAIL.cal.local>
	<63733377F5D386419FE59FCB038725EF0B544FEE@EXCHANGE.njdol.ad.dol>
Message-ID: <80D4960C-669A-4203-91B3-DE3C34200D93@umbc.edu>

Michelle and others,

Thanks so much.  We will all benefit from the clear explanation of  
the BEST Plus.

It's good to hear from some of you who are using the test as well.

Michelle, can you tell us if there are any plans for developing a  
comparable reading and writing test for adult ESL learners?

Jodi


On Feb 7, 2008, at 4:25 PM, Cohen, Jonathan wrote:

> Good reply.
>
> Jon
>
>
> Jonathan Cohen
>
> Workforce Readiness & Literacy
>
> NJ Dept. of Labor & Workforce Development
>
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Michelle Ueland
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 4:10 PM
> To: The Assessment Discussion List
> Subject: [Assessment 1158] Re: Observation checklist
>
>
>
> Dear Assessment Listserv Members,
>
> It is with great interest that we have been following this  
> discussion regarding one of our assessments, BEST Plus, and its use  
> for oral proficiency meaurement on initial placement and learner  
> progress.
>
> As other assessments have been brought into the discussion, we  
> would like to provide the following clarification, taken verbatim  
> from the DLIELC Website: http://www.dlielc.org/testing/ALCPT.html :  
> "DLIELC conducts English language proficiency testing using the  
> Oral Proficiency Interview (OPI), a face-to-face or telephonic  
> interview, and the English Comprehension Level (ECL) test, a  
> multiple choice test of listening and reading comprehension. (The  
> ECL test is provided to authorized US Government users only.)  
> DLIELC also makes available the American Language Course Placement  
> Test (ALCPT) for English language programs conducted outside of  
> DLIELC. Achievement testing of American Language Course (ALC)  
> objectives is conducted using book quizzes and performance tests,  
> which can be obtained with the course materials."
>
> According to the April 2007 edition of the Handbook for the  
> American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT): "The most  
> important consideration under the general topic of test security is  
> test compromise. One of the easiest ways to compromise any test is  
> through its inappropriate use." Given the definitions above, there  
> are many reasons to question the appropriateness of using any of  
> the above mentioned tests with the adult ESL population in the U.S.
>
> Currently, BEST Plus is the only assessment developed specifically  
> for use with adult English language learners in educational  
> programs, which simultaneously measures adults' listening and  
> speaking skills. As the BEST Plus Level Gain study shows ( http:// 
> www.cal.org/resources/digest/levelgain.html ), more hours equals  
> more gains, whether that be during one academic year (intensity of  
> instruction) or over an adult's lifetime (persistence as a  
> learner). Furthermore, this study also shows that not only is BEST  
> Plus appropriate for initial placement, but it is also a good  
> measure of student progress. In many ways, BEST Plus brings the  
> knowledge and design of other oral proficiency instruments to the  
> field of adult ESL in a highly accessible manner. Test  
> administrations are relatively inexpensive when compared to the  
> high cost of other oral proficiency assessments, the results  
> accurate and immediate, and for the first time, instructors are  
> able to confirm many of their "gut instinct" and "handshake"  
> evaluations based on their expertise and familiarity with the adult  
> ESL population in a standardized manner that is scored by a common  
> rubric.
>
> In regard to test administrator training, another advantage to BEST  
> Plus is that ESL instructors are able to engage in professional  
> development in the area of proficiency assessment. Across the  
> country, responses to BEST Plus training are overwhelmingly  
> positive. Our core of trainers does fantastic work to educate  
> practitioners about the differences between being a good teacher  
> and being a good standardized test administrator, in addition to  
> training test administrators to administer and score BEST Plus.  
> Furthermore, there are several opportunities for previously trained  
> test administrators to recalibrate their scoring accuracy through  
> the use of the Scoring Refresher Toolkit within their local  
> programs and states. In this way, programs can confirm their inter- 
> rater reliability, as CAL has also done during the development and  
> design of BEST Plus. We would encourage anyone interested in  
> finding out more about the design of BEST Plus and its high rate of  
> inter-rater reliability to read the BEST Plus Technical Manual.
>
> Finally, we hope that programs using BEST Plus continue to see the  
> benefits of providing adults ESL learners with data regarding their  
> oral proficiency level and progress. Particularly adults with many  
> commitments need this type of information offered at their  
> convenience locally by their service providers. By knowing their  
> levels, program directors and instructors can to continue to make  
> instructional and programatic decisions based on learner needs and  
> to assist the learners in their own educational goal setting.
>
> Michelle M. Ueland
>
> Adult ESL Assessments
>
> Center for Applied Linguistics
>
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:27 PM
> To: The Assessment Discussion List
> Subject: [Assessment 1157] Re: Observation checklist
>
> Ted and all,
>
>
> I imagine others would like to have access to the ALCPT information  
> as well.
>
>
> I have also given the OPI, not as a certified interviewer but with  
> a lot of training in its use.  I use it  as part of information  
> gathering in reviewing programs overseas, to see what various  
> levels of instruction correspond to in proficiency terms. I haven't  
> used it with adult ESL population.  Like Mary Margaret, I have  
> found that it takes about the same amount of time.
>
>
> Do others have the same concerns about the BEST Plus?
>
>
> Jodi
>
>
> On Feb 7, 2008, at 12:58 PM, Ted Klein wrote:
>
>> Jodi,
>>
>>
>> My wife, Mary Margaret, was a certified OPI interviewer at DLI.  
>> She says that the average interview was 20 minutes. This depends  
>> on the interviewee's level. Two people interview. The higher the  
>> level, the longer the test. It's a really good test. The bad news  
>> is that there is/was something like a 40% failure rate for  
>> certification of interviewer among instructors and staff. Some of  
>> these people were pretty sharp, but doing it is an art and a  
>> science. There is no question the OPI is the state-of-the-art.  
>> Even experienced interviewers get frequent tune-ups. I believe  
>> that the OPI scoring system with the + indicating 60% of the next  
>> higher level COULD be simplified and adapted to adult education.  
>> However, if progress has to be shown as often as now, real  
>> proficiency doesn't change that fast and could cost programs $  
>> when they submit their paperwork.  IF it were done after maybe 120  
>> class hours, there may be significant changes.
>>
>>
>> Although I got the training, I bribe other people to do the BEST  
>> Plus on my students, including Mary Margaret! I think that it's  
>> fine for placement, but really doesn't work for "progress" for a  
>> number of reasons. Even when people are trained to use it  
>> properly, there is enormous difference, even in how the  
>> interviewers expresses themselves orally and make scores. If we  
>> have to continue using the BEST tests, another thing that I would  
>> like to see is small teams of really good and consistent  
>> interviewers that do the tests on all of the students. A weak  
>> measurement system is the Achilles Heel in Adult Education.
>>
>>
>> I would prefer the use of the American Language Course Placement  
>> Test (ALCPT). If you will give me an e-mail address that is  
>> convenient, I will send you more information on it from my old  
>> workshops. It's cheaper, quicker, and quite accurate. I totally  
>> agree with you that teacher wisdom is also a good way to determine  
>> where and when the student should move on. Unfortunately, many  
>> managers don't trust the peasants! There are also several good  
>> ways to place people that don't involve their ability to read the  
>> ALCPT.
>>
>>
>> I put out an Adult Education/ESL Newsletter once in a while. I  
>> recently did an article on the OPI, which may answer more of the  
>> questions. Here it is:
>>
>>
>>
>> Adult Education/ESL News Letter; the Federal Oral Proficiency  
>> Interview   Jan. 8, 2008    Ted Klein
>>
>>
>> For many years the Foreign Service Institute (FSI) of the United  
>> States conducted interviews of foreign language proficiency to  
>> measure the understanding and production of languages acquired by  
>> their staff. This test was also used by some other federal  
>> agencies and was adapted by some civilian language programs as a  
>> measure of their graduates. This test expressed performance using  
>> scores ranging from zero to five. For decades it was the best game  
>> in town. The problem is that both the interview techniques and  
>> scoring systems in the FSI exam were not as objective as needed  
>> for some persons, whose jobs required very specific scores that  
>> would be important to accomplishment of their missions.
>>
>>
>> Language proficiency testing needs have always depended on the  
>> terminal objectives of the students. In most cases, a well- 
>> designed comprehension test is adequate and may be used for  
>> language class placement, graduation criteria, determination of  
>> readiness for certain jobs, training, or education, etc. During my  
>> twenty years with the Defense Language Institute English Language  
>> Center, all students were tested with the English Comprehension  
>> Level (ECL) test, which was developed as an overall measure of  
>> listening and reading skills. This test was developed and  
>> maintained by individuals whose primary expertise was in valid  
>> measurement procedures assisted by a team of persons who developed  
>> multiple choice test items that were based more on their language  
>> expertise than math. Scores were in a sense arbitrary and didn't  
>> represent a "percentage" of anything. However the use of an ECL  
>> test to determine readiness for international military personnel  
>> from many countries to participate in U.S.military training was  
>> considered a very reliable source of measuring English-language  
>> readiness. The test measured listening and reading skills and was  
>> "loaded" with numerous structural, vocabulary and phonological  
>> factors. It was multiple choice and could be administered in an  
>> hour to a large group of students. Students went on from DLIELC  
>> for training as pilots, staff college attendees, electronics  
>> specialists, medical personnel, etc. and enjoyed a very low  
>> failure rate due to language factors. Often, the comprehension  
>> scores tended to reflect competence in spoken English, because  
>> most of these students had acquired English in a balanced  
>> environment of listening, speaking, reading and writing skills.  
>> The DLIELC program itself was fairly uniform in which all American  
>> Language Course materials were systematically provided for  
>> specific lengths of time to teaching staff trained to use specific  
>> methodologies. DLIELC students normally start their training in  
>> their home countries and later go to Lackland Air Force Base in  
>> San Antonio to finish general English when their ECL scores meet  
>> predetermined criteria to continue to continue on to study  
>> specialized terminology.
>>
>>
>> In the 1980's a gentleman from the Central Intelligence Agency was  
>> tasked with the production of a more objective oral language  
>> measurement system than the FSI exam, with truly meaningful scores  
>> and criteria. He accomplished that mission and the new Oral  
>> Proficiency Interview (OPI) examination was designed. That's the  
>> good news! The bad news is that it is both an art and a science to  
>> administer. A copy of the criteria and rating factors is below. It  
>> can be found at the DLIELC website at http://www.dlielc.org/ 
>> testing/opi_profile.html  This OPI took care of the majority of  
>> the problems with the older FSI exam, including a very tight and  
>> variable interview system in which persons were taken to their  
>> highest level of oral communication. Both listening and speaking  
>> skills receive a score. The chart below reflects whole number  
>> judgments with a performance-based description of what the person  
>> being tested can do with the language. The problem is that even  
>> after two weeks of training persons to administer the test, there  
>> is a rather high failure rate among tester candidates. At one time  
>> potential interviewer failures rates were as high as 40%. Tests  
>> are administered by pairs of persons who have to agree on a score.  
>> I have seen persons with graduate degrees in linguistics fail to  
>> become certified interviewers and persons with much less technical  
>> expertise succeed and become very competent certified  
>> interviewers. The OPI is now used in numerous programs throughout  
>> the military, intelligence and diplomatic communities. It is NOT  
>> used in place of other valid testing instruments. It is reserved  
>> as a supplement for persons in which a known language production  
>> level is required. This may include persons who will be air  
>> traffic controllers or pilots in which verbal communication skills  
>> can be critical.
>>
>>
>> The ROTC programs at the University of Puerto Rico require OPI  
>> scores for their cadets who become officers in the U.S. military  
>> establishment. They also have required ECL scores, and candidates  
>> must also be verbally competent in spoken English to get their  
>> commissions and succeed in adequate communication for their jobs  
>> in the military. The required score to enroll in the ROTC program  
>> is an ECL of 75 and an OPI score of 2/1+. One year later the  
>> required ECL score is 80 with a 2/2 OPI. To be commissioned in  
>> the  U.S. Military the required ECL is 90 and the required OPI is 2 
>> +/2. The first number (2+) reflects listening comprehension and  
>> the second number reflects speaking ability. When we include the +  
>> (plus) designation, this means that the candidate performs at the  
>> next higher level at least 60% of the time. Therefore, if we go  
>> from 0 (no competence) to five (educated native speaker  
>> competence) there are eleven possible levels including the pluses.  
>> The difficult part for most interviewers is reaching the  
>> candidates' real levels, measuring objectively, and having each  
>> interview so different from the last one that the possibility of  
>> compromise through information sharing is very unlikely. An ECL  
>> score of 90 is equivalent to a TOEFL score of 550, which is  
>> adequate for an international student to get into many American  
>> universities. The American Language Course Proficiency Test  
>> (ALCPT) is made from expired ECL tests and can be made available  
>> to civilian institutions.
>>
>>
>> Why am I telling you about all of this? I was in management work  
>> at DLIELC when the OPI system was introduced and never had reason  
>> to become a certified interviewer. However, what I find exciting  
>> is that the OPI Rating Factor Grid below describes the natural  
>> sequence in which our ESL students acquire English. It is a  
>> recapitulation of the entire never-ending process of getting a new  
>> language. I'm guessing that average competent foreign language  
>> majors in a good university would graduate with a 3/3 OPI score in  
>> their target languages. The numbers in the OPI can only hint at  
>> how long and complicated a process we have to go through to really  
>> be truly functional in a second language. For travelling or living  
>> in another country for a while, 2/1+ is a very reasonable goal.  
>> The chart should give ESL instructors strong insight into both  
>> teaching objectives and what their students are going through.
>>
>>
>> There is a short general article on my website about language  
>> testing at
>>
>>  http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/lang_tests.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Ted
>>
>>
>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>>   Independent Consultant in Language
>>          and Intercultural Training
>>               14456 Agarita Road
>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>>              Phone:512-266-1801
>>               taklein at austin.rr.com
>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> OPI  RATING  FACTOR  GRID
>>
>>
>>
>> Interactive Comprehension
>>
>> Structural Control  Texts Produced
>> Lexical Control
>>
>> Delivery
>>
>> Sociolinguistic Competence
>>
>> Global Tasks and Functions
>>
>> 0+
>>
>> The individual understands a number of short, memorized utterances  
>> in areas of immediate needs; frequent, long pauses and repeated  
>> requests for repetition.
>>
>> No control. Can only use memorized structures.
>>
>> Individual words and phrases.
>>
>> Memorized words and phrases related to immediate survival needs.
>>
>> Even in memorized speech, stress, intonation, tone usually quite  
>> faulty.
>>
>> Severely limited.  Any knowledge of cultural appropriateness has a  
>> nonlinguistic source
>>
>> Can make statements and ask questions using memorized material.
>>
>> 1
>>
>> A native speaker must often use slowed speech, repetition,  
>> paraphrase, or a combination of these to be understood by this  
>> individual.  Misunderstandings are frequent, but the individual is  
>> able to ask for help and to verify comprehension of native speech  
>> in face-to-face interaction.
>>
>> Structural accuracy is random or severely limited.  Almost every  
>> utterance has errors in basic structures.  Time concepts are  
>> vague.  Can formulate some questions.
>>
>> Discrete sentences.
>>
>> Very limited.  Covers courtesy expressions, introductions,  
>> identification, personal and accommodation needs, daily routine.
>>
>> Often speaks with great difficulty. Pronunciation, stress,  
>> intonation generally poor.
>>
>> Uses greetings and courtesy expressions.  Can interact with native  
>> speakers used to dealing with non-natives.
>>
>> Can create sentences; begin, maintain, and close short  
>> conversations by asking and  answering simple questions; satisfy  
>> simple daily needs.
>>
>> 2
>>
>> The individual can get the gist of most everyday conversations,  
>> but has some difficulty understanding native speakers in  
>> situations that require a specialized or sophisticated knowledge.   
>> (May require a native speaker to adjust to his/her limitations in  
>> some way).
>>
>> Discourse is minimally cohesive.  Grammatical structures are  
>> usually not very elaborate and not thoroughly controlled; errors  
>> are frequent.  Simple structure and basic grammatical relations  
>> are typically controlled.
>>
>> Full paragraphs.
>>
>> Sufficient to discuss high frequency concrete topics such as work,  
>> family, personal  background and interests, travel, current  
>> events.  Imprecise for less common topics.
>>
>> Speaks with confidence but not facility.  Can usually be  
>> understood by those not used to dealing with non-natives.
>>
>> Satisfies routine social demands and limited work requirements.   
>> Can interact with native speakers not used to dealing with non- 
>> natives; native speakers may have to adjust to limitations.
>>
>> Can describe people, places, and things; narrate current, past,  
>> and future activities in full  paragraphs; state facts; give  
>> instructions or directions; ask and answer questions in the work  
>> place; deal with non-routine daily situations.
>>
>> 3
>>
>> In face-to-face conversation with natives speaking the standard  
>> dialect at a normal rate of speech, comprehension is quite  
>> complete.  Although cultural references, proverbs, and the  
>> implications of nuances and idiom may not be fully understood, the  
>> individual can easily repair the conversation.
>>
>> Effectively combines structure and vocabulary to convey meaning.  
>> Discourse is cohesive.  Use of structural devices is flexible and  
>> elaborate.  Errors occur in low frequency and highly complex  
>> structures; but structural inaccuracy rarely causes misunderstanding.
>>
>> Extended discourse.
>>
>> Broad enough for effective formal and informal conversations on  
>> practical, social, and professional topics.  Can convey abstract  
>> concepts.
>>
>> Speaks readily and fills pauses suitably.  Pronunciation may be  
>> obviously foreign. Flaws in stress, intonation, pitch rarely  
>> disturb the native speaker.
>>
>> Uses cultural references.  When errors are made, can easily repair  
>> the conversation.
>>
>> Can converse  extensively in formal and informal situations;  
>> discuss abstract topics; support opinions; hypothesize; deal with  
>> unfamiliar topics and situations; clarify points.
>>
>> 4
>>
>> Can understand native speakers of the standard and other major  
>> dialects in  essentially any face-to-face interaction.  Can  
>> understand the details and ramifications of concepts that are  
>> culturally or conceptually different from his/her own.   
>> Understands shifts of both subject matter and tone.
>>
>> Organizes discourse well, using appropriate rhetorical devices and  
>> high level discourse structures.
>>
>> Speeches, lectures, debates,
>>
>> conference discussions.
>>
>> Precise for representational purposes within personal and  
>> professional experience.  Can elaborate concepts freely; choose  
>> appropriate words to convey nuances of meaning.
>>
>> Speaks effortlessly and smoothly, but would seldom be perceived as  
>> a native speaker.
>>
>> Uses and understands details and ramifications of target cultural  
>> references. Can set  and shift the tone of exchanges with a  
>> variety of native speakers.
>>
>> Can tailor language to fit the audience; counsel; persuade;  
>> represent an official point of view; negotiate; advocate a  
>> position at length; interpret informally.
>>
>> 5
>>
>> (No gaps in comprehension, including all details and nuances.)
>>
>> Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated  
>> native speaker.
>>
>> All texts controlled  by a highly articulate, well-educated native  
>> speaker.
>>
>> Breadth of vocabulary and idiom equivalent to that of a highly  
>> articulate, well-educated native speaker.
>>
>> Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated  
>> native speaker of a standard dialect.
>>
>> Speech reflects the cultural standards of country where language  
>> is natively spoken.
>>
>> Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated  
>> native speaker.
>>
>> DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03 (Reverse)
>>
>> OPI  PERFORMANCE  PROFILE
>> RATERS
>>
>> DATE
>>
>> Check One:
>>
>> C
>>
>> S
>>
>>
>> ENTRY
>>
>> Mid
>>
>> Exit
>>
>>
>> SCN/TEL OPI CODE
>>
>> RANK/NAME
>>
>> CY
>>
>> GRAD DATE
>>
>> SET CODE
>>
>> TEACHER/ROOM NO.
>>
>> VERIFICATION
>>
>> Interactive Comprehension
>>
>> Structural Control / Texts Produced
>>
>> Lexical Control
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Delivery
>>
>> Sociolinguistic Competence
>>
>> Global Tasks and Functions
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
>>
>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:45 AM
>>
>> Subject: [Assessment 1149] Re: Observation checklist
>>
>>
>> Ted,
>>
>> Did you use an oral proficiency interview at the Defense Language
>> Institute?  If so, how log did it take to administer to each  
>> student?  I
>> think time is a real barrier to most adult ESL/ESOL programs.   
>> Thus, they
>> use tests that can be administered to students as a group and easily
>> evaluated.
>>
>> For some college programs for international students, a whole  
>> range of
>> tests are used for placement, including a writing sample, a  
>> reading test,
>> and an oral interview.  Clearly that's more possible with smaller  
>> numbers
>> of students who are also paying for the classes.
>>
>> What do you think is needed in the way of tests?  In Passing the  
>> Torch,
>> Forrest and I point to assessment as a major issue facing all the  
>> colleges
>> we studied.  We recommend the development of a test of all four  
>> skills
>> that, if possible, could be administered and scored in a  
>> reasonable amount
>> of time.
>>
>> Have you tried the BEST Plus test?  What has been your experience  
>> with
>> that test?
>>
>> I agree that for placement at literacy levels, a simple test  
>> developed by
>> a program might be sufficient.
>>
>> I also think that for progress through the levels, student  
>> achievement in
>> the previous class, as judged by the instructor ("professional  
>> wisdom"),
>> is still the best determiner of whether a student is ready to go  
>> to the
>> next level.
>>
>> Jodi
>>
>>
>> > Jodi,
>> >
>> > Same here! As long as the BEST Test is used to show gains, I'm  
>> afraid that
>> > there isn't much chance that REAL gains could be charted and  
>> compared. It
>> > is used too often to measure progress and is not as good for  
>> that purpose
>> > as one would hope. Really valid proficiency tests are the only  
>> way to
>> > prove the point. Achievement tests don't tell much in terms of  
>> overall
>> > progress. I would also guess that it would take a minimum of 120  
>> hours of
>> > solid training to have a measureable level with any test that  
>> one could
>> > play numbers with. Other factors including attendance, etc.  
>> would have to
>> > be factored in. Adults have families and jobs in the way of total
>> > dedication to attendance. Also, one would have to have a test in  
>> which
>> > human judgment would play a small role. The BEST is fine for its  
>> original
>> > purpose, which was to place persons with others at their same  
>> levels of
>> > communication. Good measurement is the only way to prove  
>> anything. I often
>> > rely on plain old gut instincts to figure how things are really  
>> going. I
>> > know that's not very scientific.
>> >
>> > Cheers,  Ted
>> > www.tedklein-ESL.com
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
>> > To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:05 PM
>> > Subject: [Assessment 1138] Re: Observation checklist
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi, Ted.  Glad to make contact again.
>> >
>> > I definitely agree that smaller classes are more likely to bring  
>> learner
>> > gains, especially in language, since students will have more  
>> opportunity
>> > to speak when there are fewer students.  I didn't know about the  
>> DLI
>> > policy, but it is a good one.  The problem with adult ESL  
>> classes, I fear,
>> > is that there is such limited money available that programs  
>> would find it
>> > difficult to keep class size to these numbers.
>> >
>> > Has anyone tried to reduce class size and chart the learning  
>> gains?  If
>> > so, please share with us all.  It might be that this would be a  
>> good
>> > investment.  If students in smaller classes make faster gains,  
>> then there
>> > would be more spaces available as these students transitioned to  
>> other
>> > classes or the workforce.
>> >
>> > Jodi
>> >
>> > Hi Jodi,
>> >>
>> >> Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times  
>> in the
>> >> past,
>> >> I think at least once when you visited the Defense Language  
>> Institute
>> >> English Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I
>> >> mention
>> >> DLI is that it represents a language program with little leeway  
>> to fail.
>> >> I
>> >> spent 20 years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is  
>> to train
>> >> allied and friendly military personnel worldwide in general and
>> >> specialized English. Most students start ESL in their home  
>> countries
>> >> with
>> >> DLIELC personnel advising, and in some cases teaching, in these  
>> overseas
>> >> military language centers. It may still be the largest language  
>> program
>> >> in
>> >> the world. Students after reaching certain levels go to  
>> Lackland Air
>> >> Force
>> >> Base in San Antonio, complete their general English, usually go  
>> through
>> >> specialized terminology and then on to whatever training their  
>> country
>> >> needs with the U.S. military. Students have run the full gamut  
>> from
>> >> recruits and NCO's up to generals and admirals. This is a very  
>> tightly
>> >> organized "well-packaged" language program with predictable  
>> training
>> >> times
>> >> and results.
>> >>
>> >> Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb while  
>> I was at
>> >> at DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum.  
>> This was
>> >> rarely broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters'  
>> bean
>> >> counter would calculate that if a mere two or three students  
>> could be
>> >> added to a class, voila, look at the money we would save! This  
>> money
>> >> came
>> >> both from foreign governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue  
>> and then
>> >> try
>> >> it, I believe several times over the years. However, in an  
>> organization
>> >> that has a very effective testing system; both achievement and
>> >> proficiency, it was soon noticed that the scores were going  
>> down, just
>> >> enough so that they could prove that no money was being saved  
>> on teacher
>> >> salaries and other expenses. I spent three years with the Royal  
>> Thai
>> >> Navy
>> >> for DLI as language training advisor and remember having to  
>> twist arms
>> >> with the RTN Navy Education Department with the same problem. They
>> >> wanted
>> >> 15 in a class.
>> >>
>> >> Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during  
>> my last
>> >> eight years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes have
>> >> consistently been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an
>> >> organization is stuck with a low budget, make the hours of  
>> training per
>> >> week lower, but keep the class sizes within 10 or so students.  
>> Fewer
>> >> hours
>> >> of really effective training are certainly better than large  
>> classes
>> >> where
>> >> the student attention level and collegiality are reduced. I  
>> remember
>> >> Mary
>> >> Finocchiaro saying years ago that she didn't care how many  
>> students were
>> >> in her classroom, she would teach them! Unfortunately, most of  
>> us just
>> >> aren't THAT dynamic.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,  Ted
>> >> www.tedklein-ESL.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
>> >> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM
>> >> Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Usha,
>> >>
>> >> I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
>> >> experience that with more than 10 students, learning  
>> decreases?  If so,
>> >> how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be
>> >> interested
>> >> in ways to decrease class size.
>> >>
>> >> It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
>> >> constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more
>> >> important
>> >> to involve them in activities in which all get to participate,  
>> which
>> >> means
>> >> less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small  
>> classes
>> >> need that.
>> >>
>> >> What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?
>> >>
>> >> You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop  
>> out of
>> >> classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any  
>> of you
>> >> keep
>> >> records of your students that would identify those who do  
>> return?  Do
>> >> you
>> >> have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning  
>> English
>> >> outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know  
>> of any
>> >> research about adult English Language Learners in this area,  
>> but there
>> >> is
>> >> an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State
>> >> University
>> >> following adult literacy level students for several years.   
>> They have
>> >> identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside  
>> of the
>> >> classroom and also that some of these learners come back to  
>> classes
>> >> after
>> >> being out of them for some time.
>> >>
>> >> Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of  
>> you been
>> >> able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of  
>> these
>> >> services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have  
>> been most
>> >> effective? If you teach in a community college, have your  
>> students had
>> >> access to the various support services provided to other students?
>> >>
>> >> Several of you have talked about the differences in progress  
>> made by
>> >> students with more advanced education and those who are at  
>> literacy
>> >> level.
>> >>  Because literacy level students take longer in making  
>> progress, most
>> >> programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and
>> >> literate
>> >> beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and  
>> literacy
>> >> will
>> >> need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to  
>> talk about
>> >> what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about
>> >> persistence
>> >> of literacy level students and their learning gains.
>> >>
>> >> Students with advanced education in their own language may be  
>> able to
>> >> have
>> >> a condensed program since they are already experienced as  
>> students and
>> >> often have high motivation to get through English so that they  
>> can take
>> >> courses related to their previous or future career.  City  
>> College of San
>> >> Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters  
>> worth of
>> >> work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer  
>> something along
>> >> these lines?
>> >>
>> >> Jodi
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked  
>> the tool
>> >>> that
>> >>> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope  
>> that it
>> >>> is
>> >>> not
>> >>> something that has already been asked and answered.
>> >>>
>> >>> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most  
>> of our ESL
>> >>> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal  
>> constraints
>> >>> and
>> >>> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a  
>> positive
>> >>> to
>> >>> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we  
>> expect to see
>> >>> more
>> >>> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the  
>> numbers.
>> >>>
>> >>> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy  
>> programs
>> >>> because of many socio-economic factors.
>> >>>
>> >>> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing  
>> market (in
>> >>> past
>> >>> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to  
>> stay in
>> >>> one
>> >>> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen  
>> more in
>> >>> people
>> >>> who do not have high levels of education from their native  
>> country).
>> >>>
>> >>> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from  
>> their
>> >>> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some  
>> kind of
>> >>> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs,  
>> go in and
>> >>> out
>> >>> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of  
>> various
>> >>> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and  
>> have no time
>> >>> to
>> >>> practice.
>> >>>
>> >>> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in  
>> educational
>> >>> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
>> >>> availability
>> >>> of  community resources.
>> >>>
>> >>> Usha Narayanan
>> >>> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
>> >>> California
>> >>> 408-522-2737
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Marie,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and  
>> out of the
>> >>>> U.S.A.
>> >>>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc.  
>> in ESL.
>> >>>> It
>> >>>> is
>> >>>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say  
>> that I'm
>> >>>> back
>> >>>> in the
>> >>>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the  
>> Defense
>> >>>> Language
>> >>>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching  
>> immigrants part
>> >>>> time for
>> >>>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at  
>> Austin
>> >>>> Community
>> >>>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what  
>> language
>> >>>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to  
>> work at a
>> >>>> higher
>> >>>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope  
>> that I
>> >>>> apply
>> >>>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy
>> >>>> traps."
>> >>>> I
>> >>>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
>> >>>> interested and
>> >>>> it is published on my website at
>> >>>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel  
>> absolutely free
>> >>>> to use
>> >>>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank  
>> you very
>> >>>> much for
>> >>>> the input. Questions are welcome.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Cheers,   Ted
>> >>>>
>> >>>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>> >>>>   Independent Consultant in Language
>> >>>>          and Intercultural Training
>> >>>>               14456 Agarita Road
>> >>>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>> >>>>              Phone:512-266-1801
>> >>>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
>> >>>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Hi  Ted,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it
>> >>>>> yourself?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you  
>> deliberately try
>> >>>>> to
>> >>>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or  
>> do others
>> >>>>> you
>> >>>>> work with?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the
>> >>>>> students
>> >>>>> advance?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Marie
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>> >>>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
>> >>>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
>> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
>> >>>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>> >>>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Marie,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Ted
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
>> >>>>>>  NO
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    supportive personality?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    other and the instructor?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>     target language  proficiency?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>     than push them?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>     exaggerated speech?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>     results?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> ---- Original Message -----
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Hello  everyone,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on   
>> regarding
>> >>>>>>> your
>> >>>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students   
>> advance??  I was
>> >>>>>>> very
>> >>>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types  
>> of issues
>> >>>>>>> that
>> >>>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a  
>> lack of
>> >>>>>>> intensity
>> >>>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
>> >>>>>>> opportunities
>> >>>>>>> for  professional development.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit  
>> the ESL
>> >>>>>>> student
>> >>>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Thanks!
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>> >>>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> -------------------------------
>> >>>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>> >>>>>>> Assessment mailing list
>> >>>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> >>>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings,  
>> please go to
>> >>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> >>>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -------------------------------
>> >>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>> >>>>> Assessment mailing list
>> >>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> >>>>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings, please  
>> go to
>> >>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> >>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -------------------------------
>> >>>> National Institute for Literacy
>> >>>> Assessment mailing list
>> >>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> >>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please  
>> go to
>> >>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> >>>> Email delivered to usha_narayanan at fuhsd.org
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Scanned by Barracuda Spam Firewall
>> >>> -------------------------------
>> >>> National Institute for Literacy
>> >>> Assessment mailing list
>> >>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> >>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> >>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> >>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>> >> Professor, Education Department
>> >> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
>> >> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in
>> >> ESOL/Bilingual
>> >> Education
>> >> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
>> >> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
>> >> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
>> >> email: crandall at umbc.edu
>> >> www.umbc.edu/llc/
>> >> www.umbc.edu/esol/
>> >> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -------------------------------
>> >> National Institute for Literacy
>> >> Assessment mailing list
>> >> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> >> Email delivered to  
>> taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
>> >> National Institute for Literacy
>> >> Assessment mailing list
>> >> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> >> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>> > Professor, Education Department
>> > Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
>> > Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/ 
>> Bilingual
>> > Education
>> > University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
>> > 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
>> > ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
>> > email: crandall at umbc.edu
>> > www.umbc.edu/llc/
>> > www.umbc.edu/esol/
>> > www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -------------------------------
>> > National Institute for Literacy
>> > Assessment mailing list
>> > Assessment at nifl.gov
>> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> > Email delivered to  
>> taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
>> > National Institute for Literacy
>> > Assessment mailing list
>> > Assessment at nifl.gov
>> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> > Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>> >
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>> Professor, Education Department
>> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
>> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/ 
>> Bilingual
>> Education
>> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
>> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
>> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
>> email: crandall at umbc.edu
>> www.umbc.edu/llc/
>> www.umbc.edu/esol/
>> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com
>>
>> -------------------------------
>>
>> National Institute for Literacy
>>
>> Assessment mailing list
>>
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>
>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>
>
> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>
> Professor and Director
>
> Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
>
> Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual  
> Education
>
> University of Maryland Baltimore County
>
> 1000 Hilltop Circle
>
> Baltimore, MD 21250
>
> tel:  410-455-2313
>
> fax: 410-455-8947
>
> eml: crandall at umbc.edu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor and Director
Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
University of Maryland Baltimore County
1000 Hilltop Circle
Baltimore, MD 21250
tel:  410-455-2313
fax: 410-455-8947
eml: crandall at umbc.edu




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From forrest at crosslink.net  Thu Feb  7 20:26:26 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 20:26:26 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1167] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
	Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <076B1938-8827-49B0-9890-3DA0BC4C3641@umbc.edu>
References: <1dd5701e0802051006i6f9e4473wcc9aa9810ca65f7c@mail.gmail.com>	<OF56C5D320.83B8357C-ON072573E6.0065B469-072573E6.0065D41F@yc.edu>	<000d01c86854$6e1dfde0$4a59f9a0$@net>	<1dd5701e0802060401r7fe15e6apb5e2af1d1564f98a@mail.gmail.com>
	<49509.130.85.83.224.1202328618.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
	<001f01c86912$fbcc09c0$f3641d40$@net>
	<076B1938-8827-49B0-9890-3DA0BC4C3641@umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <000001c869f1$a2b33ef0$e819bcd0$@net>

Jodi:

 

Just so other people can see how we get misunderstand each other and still
work together...

 

Really, my question was whether, given the importance of prior education, do
any programs provide separate classes for students with higher prior
education (by any definition)?

 

Overall, in the research we conducted together, I was struck by how much the
colleges we visited talked about the importance of prior education, and how
little they did about it in designing their programs. For example, most of
them did not include level of prior education in their student records. Thus
teachers may or may not have known what the prior education of particular
students was. Likewise, I'm quite sure that CCSF has no idea what the prior
education of students in their two-level courses are. Anyone can take these
courses, and the college says students are sometimes encouraged to do so if
they have an interest in credit studies or in advancing rapidly for some
other reason - which may or may not indicate level of prior education.
Likewise, the Lake County intensive transition program is open to any
intermediate level student who wants to enroll - although when we studied it
there weren't enough slots for everyone who wanted to enter it.

 

So, I guess my question stands. Recognizing the importance of prior
education, do any of you do anything (other than Spanish literacy/GED) to
compensate for it by making progress easier for both more highly educated
and less highly educated students? 

 

Forrest

 

      

From: Jodi Crandall [mailto:crandall at umbc.edu] 
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 5:23 PM
To: Forrest Chisman
Cc: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

 

Forrest,

 

I'm not sure yet that I know the question, but here goes ...

 

I don't know of community college programs now that continue to separate out
literacy level students after the actual literacy class.  Does anyone else>

 

When I mentioned higher levels of prior education, in this context, I didn't
mean college-educated students, but those with closer to a high school
education n their own countries.  These are the students that we used to
believe were the main students that we served, not the literacy level
students who are increasingly being enrolled  in our classes.

 

For highly educated individuals, those with college degrees in their own
countries, most of the programs that I know seek to transition these
students into more academic ESL programs at the intermediate levels.  In
fact, some community colleges, like the English for Academic Purposes
College of Lake County, that we studied, created a seamless transition from
noncredit to credit academic ESL courses by working backwards from the
credit expectations and then aligning the intermediate level noncredit ESL
to them.  

 

City College, as you know, provides accelerated ESL classes (two terms in
one) for more educated students, since they are likely to be able to make
faster progress.

 

 

Jodi

 

On Feb 6, 2008, at 5:52 PM, Forrest Chisman wrote:





Jodi,

 

I think you misunderstood me (as usual) :-). My question wasn't about

separating out literacy level students. I agree most programs do that. My

question was about the other practice from the 1980's you mention --

separate classes for students with higher levels of prior education ABOVE

the literacy level.

 

Forrest 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On

Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM

To: The Assessment Discussion List

Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or

Comments?!

 

Jackie and Forrest,

 

I think most large programs separate literacy level students from others

who are at a beginning level.  I know that back in the 1980s when there

were large refugee ESL programs, several community colleges created

parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels and even into intermediate

levels, with one set of classes for students with limited literacy or

prior schooling and another for more educated students.  The reason was

that the students with less education made slower progress.  Some of this

is undoubtedly due to the way in which we teach English (requiring

literacy), but it is also because students need to become accustomed to

attending classes, learning to hold and use a pen or pencil, and a wide

range of basic skills that come with being a student in a class.

 

Those of you who have separate classes for those who need literacy:   Can

you tell us what kind of classes or program you provide?

 

Those who teach both literacy and more educated learners in the same

class:  Can you let us know how you manage?  What are some ways in which

you accommodate both sets of needs?

 

Jodi

Forrest,

   I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy

background

and those without. These two groups have such different needs. Having both

in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs of either

group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate the class,

and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor does not keep

up

with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they often become

frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the instructor

keeps

up with those students, the others are unable to keep up and they get

frustrated.

  I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of

how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.

Jackie

 

 

On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:

 

 To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in

student performance:

 

 

 

Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly

educated students do better in terms of  persistence, learning gains,

and

transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this.

Regrettably

we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education

makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of

their

students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That is,

do

you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education makes?

Or

any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior education

that

seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are completely

illiterate,

students who at least reached high school, high school graduates,

college

graduates, etc. --  or is level of prior education pretty much of a

continuum?

 

 

 

More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly

educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably

students

with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower

level

ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by

definition)  in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes

math.

Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at these

levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be

desirable

to place less highly educated students in separate classes from those

with

more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for them

accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or the

Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these

approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of

"bi-lingual

education" that should be tried?

 

 

 

It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the

people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of

immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large

numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means),

ESL

programs may be swamped with students who have very little education in

their native countries and too little money to serve them.  So anyone

who

has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a

lot

by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.

 

 

 

Forrest Chisman

 

Vice President

 

CAAL

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]

*On

Behalf Of *Tina_Luffman at yc.edu

*Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM

*To:* The Assessment Discussion List

*Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions

or

Comments?!

 

 

 

 

Hi Jackie,

 

Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my

former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual

education in

the K-12 school system.

 

Tina

 

Tina Luffman

Coordinator, Developmental Education

Verde Valley Campus

928-634-6544

tina_luffman at yc.edu

 

  *"Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>*

Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov

 

02/05/2008 11:13 AM

 

Please respond to

The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>

 

To

 

"The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>

 

cc

 

Subject

 

[Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or

 Comments?!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Tina,

 

This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in

favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in

the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation

in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second

or third language.

 

Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not

written.

 

Jackie

 

 

On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:

Hi list members,

 

My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to

that

of

Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country

they

came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather

quickly

and

get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their

country

or

lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much

advancement.

 

This experience relates well to research done among Native American

tribes

teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught

literacy

skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who

tried

to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their

own

tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The

concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much

easier

to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this

is

something deserving more research.

 

Tina

Tina Luffman

Coordinator, Developmental Education

Verde Valley Campus

928-634-6544

tina_luffman at yc.edu

 

-----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----

 

To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>

From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>

Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov

Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM

Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or

Comments?!

 

 

Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed

Warning: (not named).

Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for

more

information.

 

In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three

years)

is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,

particularly if

they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if

at

all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I

would

say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a

student

who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because

he/she

is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is

try

to

get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard

concept

in a second language.

 

This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't

play

a

part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned

from

another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than

classes).

My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.

It's

hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL

teachers.

The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is

encouraging

me

to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think

we're

making some progress.

 

Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?

 

________________________________

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora

Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM

To: Assessment at nifl.gov

Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!

 

 

Hello everyone,

 

I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your

program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was very

curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues

that

Dr.

Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of intensity

of

instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities

for

professional development.

 

What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL

student

from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?

 

Please post your questions and comments now.

 

Thanks!

 

Marie Cora

Assessment Discussion List Moderator

 

 

Marie Cora

marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

<mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>

NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator

<marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>

http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

 

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and

intended

solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are

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If you have received this email in error please notify the system

manager.

This message contains confidential information and is intended only

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Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu

 

 

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Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com

 

 

 

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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

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Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

 

 

 

-- 

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

Professor, Education Department

Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture

Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual

Education

University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)

1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250

ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880

email: crandall at umbc.edu

www.umbc.edu/llc/

www.umbc.edu/esol/

www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html

 

 

 

-------------------------------

National Institute for Literacy

Assessment mailing list

Assessment at nifl.gov

To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

Email delivered to forrest at crosslink.net

 

 

 

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

Professor and Director

Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program

Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education

University of Maryland Baltimore County

1000 Hilltop Circle

Baltimore, MD 21250

tel:  410-455-2313

fax: 410-455-8947

eml: crandall at umbc.edu

 

 





 

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From forrest at crosslink.net  Thu Feb  7 21:00:45 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 21:00:45 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1168] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
	or	Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <571084.73827.qm@web54003.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <A1FACE81B7C82147B9CE6822E2D4A701022A24ED@MCMAIL2.mcnte.mc.cc.md.us>
	<571084.73827.qm@web54003.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002401c869f6$781c6fe0$68554fa0$@net>

Mary Jane,

 

Thanks for this input. I gather that all of your classes mix students with
different levels of higher education. Is that right? If so, how do you
manage to find the time (or manage the class) so that you can provide this
extra help to students with low levels of prior education? About how many
hours/week do your classes meet? Also, I think we'd all like to hear some
examples of the cooperation and teamwork you mention, and its results. This
seems to be an important, but too little documented theme.

 

Forrest   

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Mary Jane Jerde
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:31 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List; Jodi Crandall
Subject: [Assessment 1164] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

 

I was going to write a very similar message based on my experience working
under Barbara Denman at the erstwhile refugee program in Prince George's
County, Maryland. 

Now that I work in a community college with ESL classes that span the lowest
level ESL and academic experience to the higher levels of college credit
classes, my experience has grown. The principles of both cooperation and
teamwork in learning and separation by level still hold true. Students
benefit from knowing that they need to help each other. It's part of our
culture, surprise, surprise. The institution where I work has six levels of
class for the various language skills, so there's lots of separation by
level. 

What I have found myself doing with high beginning students and
intermediates with less education in their home countries is preparing them
for the grammatical terms that will come their way if they continue to take
ESL classes. I also work diligently with them to have a firm grasp of basic
English grammar, especially verbs. This will help them at work or if they
decide to begin ABE classes, where the grammar focus is not normally on
their kind of grammar issues. 

Mary Jane Jerde
ESL Instructor
Howard Community College

"Sadan, Noa" <Noa.Sadan at montgomerycollege.edu> wrote:

Years ago, the Montgomery County Refugee Training Program (Montgomery
College, Silver Spring, MD)had highly educated people with no English,
in class with literacy level students. It was certainly difficult
meeting the needs of all students, but in this intensive 20-hours/week
program, a tremendous mutual respect was fostered between the groups.
Typically, the highly educated students raced ahead with reading and
writing, while the literacy students sped ahead with oral language. The
Somali mother of nine would say to the Russian engineer, "I wish I could
read and write like you!", while the Russian woman would reply, "I wish
I could speak like you."

All this ended with a slightly different solution. The Refugee Center,
then under the direction of Donna Kinerney, divided that school day into
separate Listening,Reading and "Homeroom" classes. Homerooom took in all
skills, plus the introduction to the American workplace. This model was
in place when we began to get World English speakers who were not
literate. It provided a solution in which they could study in a
literacy-level reading/writing class, and interact in a higher level
Listening and Homeroom class. 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

Jackie and Forrest,

I think most large programs separate literacy level students from others
who are at a beginning level. I know that back in the 1980s when there
were large refugee ESL programs, several community colleges created
parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels and even into intermediate
levels, with one set of classes for students with limited literacy or
prior schooling and another for more educated students. The reason was
that the students with less education made slower progress. Some of
this is undoubtedly due to the way in which we teach English (requiring
literacy), but it is also because students need to become accustomed to
attending classes, learning to hold and use a pen or pencil, and a wide
range of basic skills that come with being a student in a class.

Those of you who have separate classes for those who need literacy:
Can
you tell us what kind of classes or program you provide?

Those who teach both literacy and more educated learners in the same
class: Can you let us know how you manage? What are some ways in which
you accommodate both sets of needs?

Jodi
> Forrest,
> I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy 
> background and those without. These two groups have such different 
> needs. Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to 
> meet the needs of either group well and I find that often the stronger

> students dominate the class, and their drive push the teacher forward.

> If the instructor does not keep up with the students who are learning 
> at a faster rate, they often become frustrated and leave or mentally 
> check out. However, if the instructor keeps up with those students, 
> the others are unable to keep up and they get frustrated.
> I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless

> of how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.
> Jackie
>
>
> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman wrote:
>>
>> To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor 
>> in student performance:
>>
>>
>>
>> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more 
>> highly educated students do better in terms of persistence, learning

>> gains, and transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect 
>> this.
>> Regrettably
>> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior 
>> education makes, because too few programs track the level of prior 
>> education of their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of

>> you do this? That is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference 
>> level of prior education makes?
>> Or
>> any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior education

>> that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are completely 
>> illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high school 
>> graduates, college graduates, etc. -- or is level of prior education

>> pretty much of a continuum?
>>
>>
>>
>> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between 
>> highly educated students and those with less prior education? 
>> Presumably students with very low levels of education are more likely

>> end up in the lower level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning 
>> levels) why are (almost by
>> definition) in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes

>> math.
>> Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at 
>> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it

>> be desirable to place less highly educated students in separate 
>> classes from those with more education and adjust the 
>> curriculum/support systems for them accordingly? Some programs have 
>> tried "native language literacy" or the Spanish GED. What has been 
>> the experience of any of you with these approaches? Any other ideas? 
>> IS there an adult ESL equivalent of "bi-lingual education" that 
>> should be tried?
>>
>>
>>
>> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the

>> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of 
>> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large

>> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that 
>> means), ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very 
>> little education in their native countries and too little money to 
>> serve them. So anyone who has any ideas about how to bridge this 
>> "education gap" could help us a lot by posting ideas about how to 
>> close it on this discussion list.
>>
>>
>>
>> Forrest Chisman
>>
>> Vice President
>>
>> CAAL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
>> *On
>> Behalf Of *Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
>> *To:* The Assessment Discussion List
>> *Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No 
>> Questions or Comments?!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Jackie,
>>
>> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what 
>> my former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual 
>> education in the K-12 school system.
>>
>> Tina
>>
>> Tina Luffman
>> Coordinator, Developmental Education
>> Verde Valley Campus
>> 928-634-6544
>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>
>> *"Jackie Coelho" * Sent by: 
>> assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>
>> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM
>>
>> Please respond to
>> The Assessment Discussion List 
>>
>> To
>>
>> "The Assessment Discussion List" 
>>
>> cc
>>
>> Subject
>>
>> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or 
>> Comments?!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Tina,
>>
>> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement 
>> in favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented

>> in the best way. For many years people have known that a good 
>> foundation in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning

>> in a second or third language.
>>
>> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not 
>> written.
>>
>> Jackie
>>
>>
>> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu wrote:
>> > Hi list members,
>> >
>> > My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to
>> that
>> of
>> > Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the 
>> > country
>> they
>> > came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather
>> quickly
>> and
>> > get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their
>> country
>> or
>> > lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much 
>> > advancement.
>> >
>> > This experience relates well to research done among Native American
>> tribes
>> > teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
>> literacy
>> > skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those 
>> > who
>> tried
>> > to learn literacy skills in English without that background in 
>> > their
>> own
>> > tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. 
>> > The concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish 
>> > were much
>> easier
>> > to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps 
>> > this
>> is
>> > something deserving more research.
>> >
>> > Tina
>> > Tina Luffman
>> > Coordinator, Developmental Education Verde Valley Campus
>> > 928-634-6544
>> > tina_luffman at yc.edu
>> >
>> > -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>> >
>> > To: "The Assessment Discussion List" 
>> > From: "Gail Burnett" Sent by: 
>> > assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>> > Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
>> > Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or

>> > Comments?!
>> >
>> >
>> > Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
>> > Warning: (not named).
>> > Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for
>> more
>> > information.
>> >
>> > In our small adult education program, my experience (just about 
>> > three
>> years)
>> > is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
>> particularly if
>> > they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, 
>> > if
>> at
>> > all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first 
>> > language. I
>> would
>> > say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a
>> student
>> > who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed 
>> > because
>> he/she
>> > is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is
>> try
>> to
>> > get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
>> concept
>> > in a second language.
>> >
>> > This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't
>> play
>> a
>> > part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers 
>> > (transitioned
>> from
>> > another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
>> classes).
>> > My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow
advancement.
>> It's
>> > hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
>> teachers.
>> > The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is
>> encouraging
>> me
>> > to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think
>> we're
>> > making some progress.
>> >
>> > Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> >
>> > From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
>> > Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
>> > To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>> > Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>> >
>> >
>> > Hello everyone,
>> >
>> > I'm so surprised! No one has anything to comment on regarding your

>> > program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? I was 
>> > very curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of 
>> > issues
>> that
>> Dr.
>> > Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research: a lack of 
>> > intensity
>> of
>> > instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few 
>> > opportunities
>> for
>> > professional development.
>> >
>> > What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>> student
>> > from advancing? What do you try to do about that?
>> >
>> > Please post your questions and comments now.
>> >
>> > Thanks!
>> >
>> > Marie Cora
>> > Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>> >
>> >
>> > Marie Cora
>> > marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>> > 
>> > NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator 
>> > 
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> >
>> >
>> > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>> intended
>> > solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>> addressed.
>> > If you have received this email in error please notify the system
>> manager.
>> > This message contains confidential information and is intended only
>> for
>> the
>> > individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not

>> > disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
>> > -------------------------------
>> > National Institute for Literacy
>> > Assessment mailing list
>> > Assessment at nifl.gov
>> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
>> > 
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> > Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>> >
>> >
>> > -------------------------------
>> > National Institute for Literacy
>> > Assessment mailing list
>> > Assessment at nifl.gov
>> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
>> > 
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> > Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
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>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
>> 
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu 
>> 
>>
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>>
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> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>


--
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture Coordinator,
Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC) 1000 Hilltop Circle,
Baltimore, MD 21250
ph: 410-455-2313/2376 fax: 410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html



-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to noa.sadan at montgomerycollege.edu
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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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Email delivered to mjjerdems at yahoo.com

 

  

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From forrest at crosslink.net  Thu Feb  7 21:09:08 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 21:09:08 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1169] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <142680.92048.qm@web54007.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <63733377F5D386419FE59FCB038725EF0B544FEE@EXCHANGE.njdol.ad.dol>
	<142680.92048.qm@web54007.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004101c869f7$9cf723e0$d6e56ba0$@net>

Mary Jane,

 

That is very interesting. How often do you administer the Best Plus to
students as a post-test, and for what purposes? For example, is it the
post-test used for promotion decisions, and how is it used to guide teachers
in their classroom instruction of particular students/classes? Is it used
for NRS reporting?   Finally, I think a lot of people would like to know how
you would compare the usefulness of this test to CASAS. When and for what
purposes would you recommend either test?

 

Forrest

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Mary Jane Jerde
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:18 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1163] Re: Observation checklist

 

As an ESL instructor who has used BEST Plus for pre-test and post-test
scoring in grant funded classes, I have found the test to be an accurate
gauge of student placement and growth in English.

One advantage is that I have been able to test new students myself and have
post-testing done by various other ABE or ESL instructors. They were all
trained by BEST Plus staff. Before a test session the examiner and I go
through a review. I have sat with the examiners for initial post-test
sessions to have them gain confidence in their abilities. But I had faith
that a "subjective" test could be accurate because I had used BEST for seven
years in a refugee program and knew it's value for placement. 

The program does a fine job of adjusting level of difficulty based on
feedback from responses. 

Is one test ever enough? No. But I have enjoyed the benefit of being able to
use both CASAS and BEST Plus in smaller community programs. 

Mary Jane Jerde
ESL Instructor
Howard Community College



"Cohen, Jonathan" <Jonathan.Cohen at dol.state.nj.us> wrote:

Good reply.

Jon

 

Jonathan Cohen

Workforce Readiness & Literacy

NJ Dept. of Labor & Workforce Development 

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Michelle Ueland
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 4:10 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1158] Re: Observation checklist

 

 

Dear Assessment Listserv Members,

It is with great interest that we have been following this discussion
regarding one of our assessments, BEST Plus, and its use for oral
proficiency meaurement on initial placement and learner progress. 

As other assessments have been brought into the discussion, we would like to
provide the following clarification, taken verbatim from the DLIELC Website:
<http://www.dlielc.org/testing/ALCPT.html>
http://www.dlielc.org/testing/ALCPT.html : "DLIELC conducts English language
proficiency testing using the  <outbind://86/opi_test.html> Oral Proficiency
Interview (OPI), a face-to-face or telephonic interview, and the
<outbind://86/ecl_test.html>  English Comprehension Level (ECL) test, a
multiple choice test of listening and reading comprehension. (The ECL test
is provided to authorized US Government users only.) DLIELC also makes
available the  <outbind://86/ALCPT.html> American Language Course Placement
Test (ALCPT) for English language programs conducted outside of DLIELC.
Achievement testing of American Language Course (ALC) objectives is
conducted using book quizzes and performance tests, which can be obtained
with the course materials." 

According to the April 2007 edition of the Handbook for the American
Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT): "The most important consideration
under the general topic of test security is test compromise. One of the
easiest ways to compromise any test is through its inappropriate use." Given
the definitions above, there are many reasons to question the
appropriateness of using any of the above mentioned tests with the adult ESL
population in the U.S.

Currently, BEST Plus is the only assessment developed specifically for use
with adult English language learners in educational programs, which
simultaneously measures adults' listening and speaking skills. As the BEST
Plus Level Gain study shows (
http://www.cal.org/resources/digest/levelgain.html ), more hours equals more
gains, whether that be during one academic year (intensity of instruction)
or over an adult's lifetime (persistence as a learner). Furthermore, this
study also shows that not only is BEST Plus appropriate for initial
placement, but it is also a good measure of student progress. In many ways,
BEST Plus brings the knowledge and design of other oral proficiency
instruments to the field of adult ESL in a highly accessible manner. Test
administrations are relatively inexpensive when compared to the high cost of
other oral proficiency assessments, the results accurate and immediate, and
for the first time, instructors are able to confirm many of their "gut
instinct" and "handshake" evaluations based on their expertise and
familiarity with the adult ESL population in a standardized manner that is
scored by a common rubric.

In regard to test administrator training, another advantage to BEST Plus is
that ESL instructors are able to engage in professional development in the
area of proficiency assessment. Across the country, responses to BEST Plus
training are overwhelmingly positive. Our core of trainers does fantastic
work to educate practitioners about the differences between being a good
teacher and being a good standardized test administrator, in addition to
training test administrators to administer and score BEST Plus. Furthermore,
there are several opportunities for previously trained test administrators
to recalibrate their scoring accuracy through the use of the Scoring
Refresher Toolkit within their local programs and states. In this way,
programs can confirm their inter-rater reliability, as CAL has also done
during the development and design of BEST Plus. We would encourage anyone
interested in finding out more about the design of BEST Plus and its high
rate of inter-rater reliability to read the BEST Plus Technical Manual.

Finally, we hope that programs using BEST Plus continue to see the benefits
of providing adults ESL learners with data regarding their oral proficiency
level and progress. Particularly adults with many commitments need this type
of information offered at their convenience locally by their service
providers. By knowing their levels, program directors and instructors can to
continue to make instructional and programatic decisions based on learner
needs and to assist the learners in their own educational goal setting.

Michelle M. Ueland

Adult ESL Assessments

Center for Applied Linguistics

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:27 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1157] Re: Observation checklist

Ted and all, 

 

I imagine others would like to have access to the ALCPT information as well.

 

I have also given the OPI, not as a certified interviewer but with a lot of
training in its use.  I use it  as part of information gathering in
reviewing programs overseas, to see what various levels of instruction
correspond to in proficiency terms. I haven't used it with adult ESL
population.  Like Mary Margaret, I have found that it takes about the same
amount of time.  

 

Do others have the same concerns about the BEST Plus?

 

Jodi

 

On Feb 7, 2008, at 12:58 PM, Ted Klein wrote:

Jodi,

 

My wife, Mary Margaret, was a certified OPI interviewer at DLI. She says
that the average interview was 20 minutes. This depends on the interviewee's
level. Two people interview. The higher the level, the longer the test. It's
a really good test. The bad news is that there is/was something like a 40%
failure rate for certification of interviewer among instructors and staff.
Some of these people were pretty sharp, but doing it is an art and a
science. There is no question the OPI is the state-of-the-art. Even
experienced interviewers get frequent tune-ups. I believe that the OPI
scoring system with the + indicating 60% of the next higher level COULD be
simplified and adapted to adult education. However, if progress has to be
shown as often as now, real proficiency doesn't change that fast and could
cost programs $ when they submit their paperwork.  IF it were done after
maybe 120 class hours, there may be significant changes.

 

Although I got the training, I bribe other people to do the BEST Plus on my
students, including Mary Margaret! I think that it's fine for placement, but
really doesn't work for "progress" for a number of reasons. Even when people
are trained to use it properly, there is enormous difference, even in how
the interviewers expresses themselves orally and make scores. If we have to
continue using the BEST tests, another thing that I would like to see is
small teams of really good and consistent interviewers that do the tests on
all of the students. A weak measurement system is the Achilles Heel in Adult
Education.

 

I would prefer the use of the American Language Course Placement Test
(ALCPT). If you will give me an e-mail address that is convenient, I will
send you more information on it from my old workshops. It's cheaper,
quicker, and quite accurate. I totally agree with you that teacher wisdom is
also a good way to determine where and when the student should move on.
Unfortunately, many managers don't trust the peasants! There are also
several good ways to place people that don't involve their ability to read
the ALCPT.

 

I put out an Adult Education/ESL Newsletter once in a while. I recently did
an article on the OPI, which may answer more of the questions. Here it is:

 

 

Adult Education/ESL News Letter; the Federal Oral Proficiency Interview
Jan. 8, 2008    Ted Klein

 

For many years the Foreign Service Institute (FSI) of the United States
conducted interviews of foreign language proficiency to measure the
understanding and production of languages acquired by their staff. This test
was also used by some other federal agencies and was adapted by some
civilian language programs as a measure of their graduates. This test
expressed performance using scores ranging from zero to five. For decades it
was the best game in town. The problem is that both the interview techniques
and scoring systems in the FSI exam were not as objective as needed for some
persons, whose jobs required very specific scores that would be important to
accomplishment of their missions.

 

Language proficiency testing needs have always depended on the terminal
objectives of the students. In most cases, a well-designed comprehension
test is adequate and may be used for language class placement, graduation
criteria, determination of readiness for certain jobs, training, or
education, etc. During my twenty years with the Defense Language Institute
English Language Center, all students were tested with the English
Comprehension Level (ECL) test, which was developed as an overall measure of
listening and reading skills. This test was developed and maintained by
individuals whose primary expertise was in valid measurement procedures
assisted by a team of persons who developed multiple choice test items that
were based more on their language expertise than math. Scores were in a
sense arbitrary and didn't represent a "percentage" of anything. However the
use of an ECL test to determine readiness for international military
personnel from many countries to participate in U.S.military training was
considered a very reliable source of measuring English-language readiness.
The test measured listening and reading skills and was "loaded" with
numerous structural, vocabulary and phonological factors. It was multiple
choice and could be administered in an hour to a large group of students.
Students went on from DLIELC for training as pilots, staff college
attendees, electronics specialists, medical personnel, etc. and enjoyed a
very low failure rate due to language factors. Often, the comprehension
scores tended to reflect competence in spoken English, because most of these
students had acquired English in a balanced environment of listening,
speaking, reading and writing skills. The DLIELC program itself was fairly
uniform in which all American Language Course materials were systematically
provided for specific lengths of time to teaching staff trained to use
specific methodologies. DLIELC students normally start their training in
their home countries and later go to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio
to finish general English when their ECL scores meet predetermined criteria
to continue to continue on to study specialized terminology.

 

In the 1980's a gentleman from the Central Intelligence Agency was tasked
with the production of a more objective oral language measurement system
than the FSI exam, with truly meaningful scores and criteria. He
accomplished that mission and the new Oral Proficiency Interview (OPI)
examination was designed. That's the good news! The bad news is that it is
both an art and a science to administer. A copy of the criteria and rating
factors is below. It can be found at the DLIELC website at
<http://www.dlielc.org/testing/opi_profile.html>
http://www.dlielc.org/testing/opi_profile.html  This OPI took care of the
majority of the problems with the older FSI exam, including a very tight and
variable interview system in which persons were taken to their highest level
of oral communication. Both listening and speaking skills receive a score.
The chart below reflects whole number judgments with a performance-based
description of what the person being tested can do with the language. The
problem is that even after two weeks of training persons to administer the
test, there is a rather high failure rate among tester candidates. At one
time potential interviewer failures rates were as high as 40%. Tests are
administered by pairs of persons who have to agree on a score. I have seen
persons with graduate degrees in linguistics fail to become certified
interviewers and persons with much less technical expertise succeed and
become very competent certified interviewers. The OPI is now used in
numerous programs throughout the military, intelligence and diplomatic
communities. It is NOT used in place of other valid testing instruments. It
is reserved as a supplement for persons in which a known language production
level is required. This may include persons who will be air traffic
controllers or pilots in which verbal communication skills can be critical.

 

The ROTC programs at the University of Puerto Rico require OPI scores for
their cadets who become officers in the U.S. military establishment. They
also have required ECL scores, and candidates must also be verbally
competent in spoken English to get their commissions and succeed in adequate
communication for their jobs in the military. The required score to enroll
in the ROTC program is an ECL of 75 and an OPI score of 2/1+. One year later
the required ECL score is 80 with a 2/2 OPI. To be commissioned in the  U.S.
Military the required ECL is 90 and the required OPI is 2+/2. The first
number (2+) reflects listening comprehension and the second number reflects
speaking ability. When we include the + (plus) designation, this means that
the candidate performs at the next higher level at least 60% of the time.
Therefore, if we go from 0 (no competence) to five (educated native speaker
competence) there are eleven possible levels including the pluses. The
difficult part for most interviewers is reaching the candidates' real
levels, measuring objectively, and having each interview so different from
the last one that the possibility of compromise through information sharing
is very unlikely. An ECL score of 90 is equivalent to a TOEFL score of 550,
which is adequate for an international student to get into many American
universities. The American Language Course Proficiency Test (ALCPT) is made
from expired ECL tests and can be made available to civilian institutions.

 

Why am I telling you about all of this? I was in management work at DLIELC
when the OPI system was introduced and never had reason to become a
certified interviewer. However, what I find exciting is that the OPI Rating
Factor Grid below describes the natural sequence in which our ESL students
acquire English. It is a recapitulation of the entire never-ending process
of getting a new language. I'm guessing that average competent foreign
language majors in a good university would graduate with a 3/3 OPI score in
their target languages. The numbers in the OPI can only hint at how long and
complicated a process we have to go through to really be truly functional in
a second language. For travelling or living in another country for a while,
2/1+ is a very reasonable goal. The chart should give ESL instructors strong
insight into both teaching objectives and what their students are going
through.  

 

There is a short general article on my website about language testing at

  <http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/lang_tests.html>
http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/lang_tests.html  

 

 

Ted

 

       Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
  Independent Consultant in Language
         and Intercultural Training
              14456 Agarita Road
          Austin, Texas 78734-2009
             Phone:512-266-1801
              taklein at austin.rr.com        
            www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-esl.com/>      
             

 

 

 

 

OPI  RATING  FACTOR  GRID


 

Interactive Comprehension


Structural Control  Texts Produced


Lexical Control

Delivery

Sociolinguistic Competence

Global Tasks and Functions


0+

The individual understands a number of short, memorized utterances in areas
of immediate needs; frequent, long pauses and repeated requests for
repetition.  

No control. Can only use memorized structures. 

Individual words and phrases.

Memorized words and phrases related to immediate survival needs.

Even in memorized speech, stress, intonation, tone usually quite faulty.

Severely limited.  Any knowledge of cultural appropriateness has a
nonlinguistic source

Can make statements and ask questions using memorized material.


1

A native speaker must often use slowed speech, repetition, paraphrase, or a
combination of these to be understood by this individual.  Misunderstandings
are frequent, but the individual is able to ask for help and to verify
comprehension of native speech in face-to-face interaction. 

Structural accuracy is random or severely limited.  Almost every utterance
has errors in basic structures.  Time concepts are vague.  Can formulate
some questions.  

Discrete sentences.

Very limited.  Covers courtesy expressions, introductions, identification,
personal and accommodation needs, daily routine.

Often speaks with great difficulty. Pronunciation, stress, intonation
generally poor.

Uses greetings and courtesy expressions.  Can interact with native speakers
used to dealing with non-natives.

Can create sentences; begin, maintain, and close short conversations by
asking and answering simple questions; satisfy simple daily needs.


2

The individual can get the gist of most everyday conversations, but has some
difficulty understanding native speakers in situations that require a
specialized or sophisticated knowledge.  (May require a native speaker to
adjust to his/her limitations in some way).  

Discourse is minimally cohesive.  Grammatical structures are usually not
very elaborate and not thoroughly controlled; errors are frequent.  Simple
structure and basic grammatical relations are typically controlled.  

Full paragraphs.

Sufficient to discuss high frequency concrete topics such as work, family,
personal background and interests, travel, current events.  Imprecise for
less common topics.

Speaks with confidence but not facility.  Can usually be understood by those
not used to dealing with non-natives.

Satisfies routine social demands and limited work requirements.  Can
interact with native speakers not used to dealing with non-natives; native
speakers may have to adjust to limitations.

Can describe people, places, and things; narrate current, past, and future
activities in full paragraphs; state facts; give instructions or directions;
ask and answer questions in the work place; deal with non-routine daily
situations.


3

In face-to-face conversation with natives speaking the standard dialect at a
normal rate of speech, comprehension is quite complete.  Although cultural
references, proverbs, and the implications of nuances and idiom may not be
fully understood, the individual can easily repair the conversation.  

Effectively combines structure and vocabulary to convey meaning. Discourse
is cohesive.  Use of structural devices is flexible and elaborate.  Errors
occur in low frequency and highly complex structures; but structural
inaccuracy rarely causes misunderstanding.  

Extended discourse.

Broad enough for effective formal and informal conversations on practical,
social, and professional topics.  Can convey abstract concepts.

Speaks readily and fills pauses suitably.  Pronunciation may be obviously
foreign. Flaws in stress, intonation, pitch rarely disturb the native
speaker.

Uses cultural references.  When errors are made, can easily repair the
conversation.

Can converse extensively in formal and informal situations; discuss abstract
topics; support opinions; hypothesize; deal with unfamiliar topics and
situations; clarify points.  


4

Can understand native speakers of the standard and other major dialects in
essentially any face-to-face interaction.  Can understand the details and
ramifications of concepts that are culturally or conceptually different from
his/her own.  Understands shifts of both subject matter and tone.  

Organizes discourse well, using appropriate rhetorical devices and high
level discourse structures. 

Speeches, lectures, debates, 

conference discussions.

Precise for representational purposes within personal and professional
experience.  Can elaborate concepts freely; choose appropriate words to
convey nuances of meaning.

Speaks effortlessly and smoothly, but would seldom be perceived as a native
speaker.

Uses and understands details and ramifications of target cultural
references. Can set and shift the tone of exchanges with a variety of native
speakers.

Can tailor language to fit the audience; counsel; persuade; represent an
official point of view; negotiate; advocate a position at length; interpret
informally.


5

(No gaps in comprehension, including all details and nuances.)

Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated native
speaker.  

All texts controlled by a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.

Breadth of vocabulary and idiom equivalent to that of a highly articulate,
well-educated native speaker.

Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker
of a standard dialect.

Speech reflects the cultural standards of country where language is natively
spoken.

Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated native
speaker.

DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03 (Reverse)



OPI  PERFORMANCE  PROFILE


RATERS

DATE

Check One:

C

S


 

ENTRY

Mid


Exit


 

 


SCN/TEL OPI CODE

RANK/NAME

CY

GRAD DATE

SET CODE

TEACHER/ROOM NO.

VERIFICATION



Interactive Comprehension


Structural Control / Texts Produced


Lexical Control


 

 

 


Delivery

Sociolinguistic Competence

Global Tasks and Functions


 

 

 


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

    DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03

 

 

 

                                                

 ----- Original Message ----- 

From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>

To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:45 AM

Subject: [Assessment 1149] Re: Observation checklist

 

Ted,

Did you use an oral proficiency interview at the Defense Language
Institute?  If so, how log did it take to administer to each student?  I
think time is a real barrier to most adult ESL/ESOL programs.  Thus, they
use tests that can be administered to students as a group and easily
evaluated.

For some college programs for international students, a whole range of
tests are used for placement, including a writing sample, a reading test,
and an oral interview.  Clearly that's more possible with smaller numbers
of students who are also paying for the classes.

What do you think is needed in the way of tests?  In Passing the Torch,
Forrest and I point to assessment as a major issue facing all the colleges
we studied.  We recommend the development of a test of all four skills
that, if possible, could be administered and scored in a reasonable amount
of time.

Have you tried the BEST Plus test?  What has been your experience with
that test?

I agree that for placement at literacy levels, a simple test developed by
a program might be sufficient.

I also think that for progress through the levels, student achievement in
the previous class, as judged by the instructor ("professional wisdom"),
is still the best determiner of whether a student is ready to go to the
next level.

Jodi


> Jodi,
>
> Same here! As long as the BEST Test is used to show gains, I'm afraid that
> there isn't much chance that REAL gains could be charted and compared. It
> is used too often to measure progress and is not as good for that purpose
> as one would hope. Really valid proficiency tests are the only way to
> prove the point. Achievement tests don't tell much in terms of overall
> progress. I would also guess that it would take a minimum of 120 hours of
> solid training to have a measureable level with any test that one could
> play numbers with. Other factors including attendance, etc. would have to
> be factored in. Adults have families and jobs in the way of total
> dedication to attendance. Also, one would have to have a test in which
> human judgment would play a small role. The BEST is fine for its original
> purpose, which was to place persons with others at their same levels of
> communication. Good measurement is the only way to prove anything. I often
> rely on plain old gut instincts to figure how things are really going. I
> know that's not very scientific.
>
> Cheers,  Ted
> www.tedklein-ESL.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:05 PM
> Subject: [Assessment 1138] Re: Observation checklist
>
>
> Hi, Ted.  Glad to make contact again.
>
> I definitely agree that smaller classes are more likely to bring learner
> gains, especially in language, since students will have more opportunity
> to speak when there are fewer students.  I didn't know about the DLI
> policy, but it is a good one.  The problem with adult ESL classes, I fear,
> is that there is such limited money available that programs would find it
> difficult to keep class size to these numbers.
>
> Has anyone tried to reduce class size and chart the learning gains?  If
> so, please share with us all.  It might be that this would be a good
> investment.  If students in smaller classes make faster gains, then there
> would be more spaces available as these students transitioned to other
> classes or the workforce.
>
> Jodi
>
> Hi Jodi,
>>
>> Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times in the
>> past,
>> I think at least once when you visited the Defense Language Institute
>> English Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I
>> mention
>> DLI is that it represents a language program with little leeway to fail.
>> I
>> spent 20 years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is to train
>> allied and friendly military personnel worldwide in general and
>> specialized English. Most students start ESL in their home countries
>> with
>> DLIELC personnel advising, and in some cases teaching, in these overseas
>> military language centers. It may still be the largest language program
>> in
>> the world. Students after reaching certain levels go to Lackland Air
>> Force
>> Base in San Antonio, complete their general English, usually go through
>> specialized terminology and then on to whatever training their country
>> needs with the U.S. military. Students have run the full gamut from
>> recruits and NCO's up to generals and admirals. This is a very tightly
>> organized "well-packaged" language program with predictable training
>> times
>> and results.
>>
>> Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb while I was at
>> at DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum. This was
>> rarely broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters' bean
>> counter would calculate that if a mere two or three students could be
>> added to a class, voila, look at the money we would save! This money
>> came
>> both from foreign governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue and then
>> try
>> it, I believe several times over the years. However, in an organization
>> that has a very effective testing system; both achievement and
>> proficiency, it was soon noticed that the scores were going down, just
>> enough so that they could prove that no money was being saved on teacher
>> salaries and other expenses. I spent three years with the Royal Thai
>> Navy
>> for DLI as language training advisor and remember having to twist arms
>> with the RTN Navy Education Department with the same problem. They
>> wanted
>> 15 in a class.
>>
>> Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during my last
>> eight years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes have
>> consistently been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an
>> organization is stuck with a low budget, make the hours of training per
>> week lower, but keep the class sizes within 10 or so students. Fewer
>> hours
>> of really effective training are certainly better than large classes
>> where
>> the student attention level and collegiality are reduced. I remember
>> Mary
>> Finocchiaro saying years ago that she didn't care how many students were
>> in her classroom, she would teach them! Unfortunately, most of us just
>> aren't THAT dynamic.
>>
>> Cheers,  Ted
>> www.tedklein-ESL.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM
>> Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist
>>
>>
>> Usha,
>>
>> I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
>> experience that with more than 10 students, learning decreases?  If so,
>> how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be
>> interested
>> in ways to decrease class size.
>>
>> It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
>> constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more
>> important
>> to involve them in activities in which all get to participate, which
>> means
>> less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small classes
>> need that.
>>
>> What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?
>>
>> You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop out of
>> classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any of you
>> keep
>> records of your students that would identify those who do return?  Do
>> you
>> have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning English
>> outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know of any
>> research about adult English Language Learners in this area, but there
>> is
>> an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State
>> University
>> following adult literacy level students for several years.  They have
>> identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside of the
>> classroom and also that some of these learners come back to classes
>> after
>> being out of them for some time.
>>
>> Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of you been
>> able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of these
>> services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have been most
>> effective? If you teach in a community college, have your students had
>> access to the various support services provided to other students?
>>
>> Several of you have talked about the differences in progress made by
>> students with more advanced education and those who are at literacy
>> level.
>>  Because literacy level students take longer in making progress, most
>> programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and
>> literate
>> beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and literacy
>> will
>> need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to talk about
>> what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about
>> persistence
>> of literacy level students and their learning gains.
>>
>> Students with advanced education in their own language may be able to
>> have
>> a condensed program since they are already experienced as students and
>> often have high motivation to get through English so that they can take
>> courses related to their previous or future career.  City College of San
>> Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters worth of
>> work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer something along
>> these lines?
>>
>> Jodi
>>
>>
>>> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked the tool
>>> that
>>> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope that it
>>> is
>>> not
>>> something that has already been asked and answered.
>>>
>>> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of our ESL
>>> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal constraints
>>> and
>>> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a positive
>>> to
>>> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we expect to see
>>> more
>>> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the numbers.
>>>
>>> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy programs
>>> because of many socio-economic factors.
>>>
>>> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing market (in
>>> past
>>> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to stay in
>>> one
>>> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen more in
>>> people
>>> who do not have high levels of education from their native country).
>>>
>>> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from their
>>> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some kind of
>>> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs, go in and
>>> out
>>> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of various
>>> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and have no time
>>> to
>>> practice.
>>>
>>> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in educational
>>> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
>>> availability
>>> of  community resources.
>>>
>>> Usha Narayanan
>>> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
>>> California
>>> 408-522-2737
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Marie,
>>>>
>>>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and out of the
>>>> U.S.A.
>>>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc. in ESL.
>>>> It
>>>> is
>>>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that I'm
>>>> back
>>>> in the
>>>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the Defense
>>>> Language
>>>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching immigrants part
>>>> time for
>>>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin
>>>> Community
>>>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what language
>>>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to work at a
>>>> higher
>>>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I
>>>> apply
>>>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy
>>>> traps."
>>>> I
>>>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
>>>> interested and
>>>> it is published on my website at
>>>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel absolutely free
>>>> to use
>>>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank you very
>>>> much for
>>>> the input. Questions are welcome.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,   Ted
>>>>
>>>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>>>>   Independent Consultant in Language
>>>>          and Intercultural Training
>>>>               14456 Agarita Road
>>>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>>>>              Phone:512-266-1801
>>>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
>>>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>
>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi  Ted,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it
>>>>> yourself?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try
>>>>> to
>>>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do others
>>>>> you
>>>>> work with?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the
>>>>> students
>>>>> advance?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
>>>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>>>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marie,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ted
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
>>>>>>  NO
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    supportive personality?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    other and the instructor?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     target language  proficiency?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     than push them?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     exaggerated speech?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     results?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---- Original Message -----
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello  everyone,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on  regarding
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??  I was
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
>>>>>>> intensity
>>>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
>>>>>>> opportunities
>>>>>>> for  professional development.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>>>>>>> student
>>>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>>>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>> Email delivered to usha_narayanan at fuhsd.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Scanned by Barracuda Spam Firewall
>>> -------------------------------
>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>> Assessment mailing list
>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>> Professor, Education Department
>> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
>> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in
>> ESOL/Bilingual
>> Education
>> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
>> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
>> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
>> email: crandall at umbc.edu
>> www.umbc.edu/llc/
>> www.umbc.edu/esol/
>> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>
>
>
> --
> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Professor, Education Department
> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
> Education
> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
> email: crandall at umbc.edu
> www.umbc.edu/llc/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>


-- 
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html



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JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

Professor and Director

Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program

Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education

University of Maryland Baltimore County

1000 Hilltop Circle

Baltimore, MD 21250

tel:  410-455-2313

fax: 410-455-8947

eml: crandall at umbc.edu

 

 

 

 

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From forrest at crosslink.net  Thu Feb  7 21:15:44 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 21:15:44 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1170] Re: {Dangerous Content?} assessments
In-Reply-To: <D66AE1265AC9B14B9EDD2D3EDA8066F5013EA39F@shsmail.sanford.org>
References: <mailman.1548.1202425063.1030.assessment@nifl.gov>
	<D66AE1265AC9B14B9EDD2D3EDA8066F5013EA39F@shsmail.sanford.org>
Message-ID: <004b01c869f8$8d950a60$a8bf1f20$@net>

Gail,

Good question!!!!!!!!!! I'd be interested in the replies. Because CASAS is
MANDATED in many states, and most programs don't want to use more than one
assessment (because of limited time for testing and fear of over-testing).
What do you all think of CASAS for ESL?

Forrest 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Gail Burnett
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:08 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1162] {Dangerous Content?} assessments

Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
Warning: (not named).
Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more
information.

All the discussion on this list (the first I've ever joined) has been
fascinating. I have a question I haven't seen addressed. Someone said that
the BEST-Plus is the only valid kind of test for ESL learners. What does
anyone think of the CASAS? That's what we use with our adult students, both
ELLs and native speakers. I know it wasn't designed for ESL use but it does
use real-life material (road maps, pay stubs, store signs, etc.) and I think
that's good. What has always bothered me is that it's taken silently. That
doesn't seem right for our lower level students, who rarely make many gains.
I wonder if it's considered valid for them or not. I know that other ESL
programs do use it.

Thanks.


-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of assessment-request at nifl.gov
Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 5:57 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: Assessment Digest, Vol 29, Issue 28
 
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Today's Topics:

   1. [Assessment 1160] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
      or	Comments?! (Jodi Crandall)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 17:22:49 -0500
From: Jodi Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu>
Subject: [Assessment 1160] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
	or	Comments?!
To: "Forrest Chisman" <forrest at crosslink.net>
Cc: 'The Assessment Discussion List' <assessment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <076B1938-8827-49B0-9890-3DA0BC4C3641 at umbc.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Forrest,

I'm not sure yet that I know the question, but here goes ...

I don't know of community college programs now that continue to separate out
literacy level students after the actual literacy class.  Does anyone else>

When I mentioned higher levels of prior education, in this context, I didn't
mean college-educated students, but those with closer to a high school
education n their own countries.  These are the students that we used to
believe were the main students that we served, not the literacy level
students who are increasingly being enrolled  in our classes.

For highly educated individuals, those with college degrees in their own
countries, most of the programs that I know seek to transition these
students into more academic ESL programs at the intermediate levels.  In
fact, some community colleges, like the English for Academic Purposes
College of Lake County, that we studied, created a seamless transition from
noncredit to credit academic ESL courses by working backwards from the
credit expectations and then aligning the intermediate level noncredit ESL
to them.

City College, as you know, provides accelerated ESL classes (two terms in
one) for more educated students, since they are likely to be able to make
faster progress.


Jodi

On Feb 6, 2008, at 5:52 PM, Forrest Chisman wrote:

> Jodi,
>
> I think you misunderstood me (as usual) :-). My question wasn't about 
> separating out literacy level students. I agree most programs do that. 
> My question was about the other practice from the 1980's you mention 
> -- separate classes for students with higher levels of prior education 
> ABOVE the literacy level.
>
> Forrest
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM
> To: The Assessment Discussion List
> Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions 
> or Comments?!
>
> Jackie and Forrest,
>
> I think most large programs separate literacy level students from 
> others who are at a beginning level.  I know that back in the 1980s 
> when there were large refugee ESL programs, several community colleges 
> created parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels and even into 
> intermediate levels, with one set of classes for students with limited 
> literacy or prior schooling and another for more educated students.  
> The reason was that the students with less education made slower 
> progress.  Some of this is undoubtedly due to the way in which we 
> teach English (requiring literacy), but it is also because students 
> need to become accustomed to attending classes, learning to hold and 
> use a pen or pencil, and a wide range of basic skills that come with 
> being a student in a class.
>
> Those of you who have separate classes for those who need  
> literacy:   Can
> you tell us what kind of classes or program you provide?
>
> Those who teach both literacy and more educated learners in the same
> class:  Can you let us know how you manage?  What are some ways in 
> which you accommodate both sets of needs?
>
> Jodi
>> Forrest,
>>    I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy 
>> background and those without. These two groups have such different 
>> needs.
>> Having both
>> in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs of 
>> either group well and I find that often the stronger students 
>> dominate the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the 
>> instructor does not keep up with the students who are learning at a 
>> faster rate, they often become frustrated and leave or mentally check 
>> out. However, if the instructor keeps up with those students, the 
>> others are unable to keep up and they get frustrated.
>>   I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And 
>> regardless of how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.
>> Jackie
>>
>>
>> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>  To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor 
>>> in student performance:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more 
>>> highly educated students do better in terms of  persistence, 
>>> learning gains, and transitions. And learning theory would lead us 
>>> to expect this.
>>> Regrettably
>>> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior 
>>> education makes, because too few programs track the level of prior 
>>> education of their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any 
>>> of you do this?
>>> That is,
>>> do
>>> you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education 
>>> makes?
>>> Or
>>> any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior 
>>> education that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are 
>>> completely illiterate, students who at least reached high school, 
>>> high school graduates, college graduates, etc. --  or is level of 
>>> prior education pretty much of a continuum?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between 
>>> highly educated students and those with less prior education? 
>>> Presumably students with very low levels of education are more 
>>> likely end up in the lower level ESL courses (Literacy or 
>>> Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by
>>> definition)  in the business of teaching basic literacy and 
>>> sometimes math.
>>> Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at 
>>> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would 
>>> it be desirable to place less highly educated students in separate 
>>> classes from those with more education and adjust the 
>>> curriculum/support systems for them accordingly? Some programs have 
>>> tried "native language literacy"
>>> or the
>>> Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these 
>>> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of 
>>> "bi-lingual education" that should be tried?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because 
>>> the people who study immigration tell us that the level of education 
>>> of immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates 
>>> large numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever 
>>> that means), ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very 
>>> little education in their native countries and too little money to 
>>> serve them.  So anyone who has any ideas about how to bridge this 
>>> "education gap" could help us a lot by posting ideas about how to 
>>> close it on this discussion list.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Forrest Chisman
>>>
>>> Vice President
>>>
>>> CAAL
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
>>> bounces at nifl.gov] *On Behalf Of *Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
>>> *To:* The Assessment Discussion List
>>> *Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No 
>>> Questions or Comments?!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Jackie,
>>>
>>> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what 
>>> my former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual 
>>> education in the K-12 school system.
>>>
>>> Tina
>>>
>>> Tina Luffman
>>> Coordinator, Developmental Education Verde Valley Campus
>>> 928-634-6544
>>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>>
>>>   *"Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>* Sent by: 
>>> assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>
>>> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM
>>>
>>> Please respond to
>>> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>>
>>> To
>>>
>>> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>>
>>> cc
>>>
>>> Subject
>>>
>>> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or  
>>> Comments?!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Tina,
>>>
>>> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement 
>>> in favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not 
>>> implemented in the best way. For many years people have known that a 
>>> good foundation in literacy in the first language will facilitate 
>>> learning in a second or third language.
>>>
>>> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not 
>>> written.
>>>
>>> Jackie
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:
>>>> Hi list members,
>>>>
>>>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to
>>> that
>>> of
>>>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the 
>>>> country
>>> they
>>>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather
>>> quickly
>>> and
>>>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their
>>> country
>>> or
>>>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much 
>>>> advancement.
>>>>
>>>> This experience relates well to research done among Native American
>>> tribes
>>>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
>>> literacy
>>>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those 
>>>> who
>>> tried
>>>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in 
>>>> their
>>> own
>>>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. 
>>>> The concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish 
>>>> were much
>>> easier
>>>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps 
>>>> this
>>> is
>>>> something deserving more research.
>>>>
>>>> Tina
>>>> Tina Luffman
>>>> Coordinator, Developmental Education Verde Valley Campus
>>>> 928-634-6544
>>>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>>>
>>>> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>>>>
>>>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org> Sent by: 
>>>> assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or 
>>>> Comments?!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
>>>> Warning: (not named).
>>>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for
>>> more
>>>> information.
>>>>
>>>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about 
>>>> three
>>> years)
>>>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
>>> particularly if
>>>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, 
>>>> if
>>> at
>>>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first 
>>>> language. I
>>> would
>>>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a
>>> student
>>>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed 
>>>> because
>>> he/she
>>>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is
>>> try
>>> to
>>>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
>>> concept
>>>> in a second language.
>>>>
>>>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't
>>> play
>>> a
>>>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers 
>>>> (transitioned
>>> from
>>>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
>>> classes).
>>>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow 
>>>> advancement.
>>> It's
>>>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
>>> teachers.
>>>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is
>>> encouraging
>>> me
>>>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think
>>> we're
>>>> making some progress.
>>>>
>>>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>
>>>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
>>>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your 
>>>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was 
>>>> very curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of 
>>>> issues
>>> that
>>> Dr.
>>>> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of 
>>>> intensity
>>> of
>>>> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few 
>>>> opportunities
>>> for
>>>> professional development.
>>>>
>>>> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>>> student
>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
>>>>
>>>> Please post your questions and comments now.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Marie Cora
>>>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marie Cora
>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator 
>>>> <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>>> intended
>>>> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>>> addressed.
>>>> If you have received this email in error please notify the system
>>> manager.
>>>> This message contains confidential information and is intended only
>>> for
>>> the
>>>> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not 
>>>> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> National Institute for Literacy
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>>>> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> National Institute for Literacy
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>>>> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> National Institute for Literacy
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>>>
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>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
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>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>
>
>
> --
> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Professor, Education Department
> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture Coordinator, 
> Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/ Bilingual 
> Education University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC) 1000 Hilltop 
> Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
> email: crandall at umbc.edu
> www.umbc.edu/llc/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
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> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
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> Email delivered to forrest at crosslink.net
>
>

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor and Director
Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program Director, Peace Corps Master's
Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education University of Maryland Baltimore
County 1000 Hilltop Circle Baltimore, MD 21250
tel:  410-455-2313
fax: 410-455-8947
eml: crandall at umbc.edu




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From forrest at crosslink.net  Thu Feb  7 21:58:14 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 21:58:14 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1171] Re: Intensity of Instruction and funding ofadult
	ESLprograms
In-Reply-To: <200802071317859.SM06896@doit-mstwmms1>
References: <001301c868de$089ec370$19dc4a50$@net>
	<200802071317859.SM06896@doit-mstwmms1>
Message-ID: <005501c869fe$7c8379e0$758a6da0$@net>

Dear Ajit,

 

Our research supports the idea you suggest: managed enrollment is usually
offered as one option (and often not at all levels) at the larger campus
sites, but not at remote locations. Interestingly, it usually seems to
attract more students than it can handle. The limit, of course, is that it
managed enrollment programs are usually also high intensity programs. Thus
they require more teacher hours/level than do open entry/exit programs and
therefore APPEAR more expensive. But if they move students up and out more
quickly, then they would be LESS expensive in reality. 

 

Our research on 5 colleges (in "Passing the Torch")supports your hypothesis
that high intensity, managed enrollment students are more likely to attend
more hours and to advance more levels, although we were not always able to
quantify this.   

 

Our CCSF research  (in "Pathways and Outcomes" ) provides quantitative
evidence that  supports your observation (and that of others) that students
who advance levels attend about 100-110 hours  on average, BUT students who
attend this many hours are more likely to advance if they do so
consecutively (i.e. in the same term). CCSF offers few high intensity
programs in the traditional sense, but students who enroll in the high
intensity programs they DO offer both attend far more hours and advance far
more rapidly. In contrast,  we found that students who attend 50 hours or
less rarely advance levels EVER. That doesn't mean they don't learn
anything, but they don't learn enough to be promoted a level, and they
almost always drop out.

 

CCSF also offers an interesting solution to BOTH the problems of how to
blend high intensity instruction and how to deal with the problem (raised in
various contexts in this discussion) of  how deal with students who are more
proficient in one of the ESL skills (perhaps because of prior education)
than in others. They offer "Focus" programs at every level of instruction.
Each focus program offers 5 hours per week of instruction in one of the core
ESL skill areas (reading, writing, speaking, listening). Students in the
mainstream 10/hour per week program (which teaches all 4 skills) are not
required to take these focus programs, but some are advised to do so. A
remarkably large percentage of students enroll in one or more Focus programs
during their careers in non-credit ESL, and they almost always do so
concurrently with the mainstream program. Hence these students elect a
fairly high intensity schedule (15 hours per week) and one that allows them
to make up for difficulties in mastering particular skills. Not
surprisingly, we found that students who enroll in Focus programs attend
more total hours, persist longer, and are more likely to advance than are
other students. In a way, one can see Focus programs as one way of offering
high intensity instruction as an option. 

 

Forrest               

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Gopalakrishnan, Ajit
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 1:14 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1156] Re: Intensity of Instruction and funding ofadult
ESLprograms

 

When the topic of managed enrollment has come up in my discussions with
local administrators, more so in recent years, I have tried to reiterate
that managed enrollment does not have to be an all or nothing proposition.
In CT, where close to 90% of the public adult education expenditures come
from state and local sources, several local program administrators don't
like the idea of denying entry to a local resident until the next
term/semester. It appears that our suggestion is similar to the "tracks"
concept you mention below --of course, the program needs to have some
minimum capacity in order to provide both managed and open entry options.
Even large programs may only be able to offer "tracks" at one or two of
their largest sites while the remaining smaller satellite locations may end
up continuing with an open-entry approach.

 

The end game is about finding ways that enable learners to maximize their
attendance hours. The most recent CAL study and two previous studies through
CASAS (one with CA data and the other with CT data) confirm that learners
who attend more hours (generally more than 100 hours) reflect the greatest
gains in ESL. These studies also show that a large number of ESL students
attend fewer than 60 hours. This brings us back to the persistence issue.
Jodi raised a question in an earlier email about intensity and attendance.
My hypothesis is that learners in more intensive (greater weekly intensity)
classes attend more total hours than learners in classes where the same
number of instructional hours are delivered over a longer duration. I have
seen it manifested in some local program data but need to study it more.

 

Ajit


Ajit Gopalakrishnan
Connecticut Department of Education
25 Industrial Park Road
Middletown, CT 06457
Phone: (860) 807-2125
Fax: (860) 807-2062
Email: ajit.gopalakrishnan at ct.gov

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [ <mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov>
mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 11:34 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1134] Re: Intensity of Instruction and funding ofadult
ESLprograms

Jim,

That's too bad about your experiences with managed enrollment. Some of the
colleges we studied think they "beat this rap" by creating very large
managed enrollment classes to allow for attrition. (For them, managed
enrollment meant that if students didn't attend on a regular basis, they
were dropped from the program.) They figured that what they lost in head
counts, they made up for in contact hours. But we also heard stories like
yours. I'm beginning to believe that "managed enrollment" works best as one
of several "tracks" -- if a program is large enough to have "tracks" -- a
track for the motivated. Some programs believe that it is by itself
"motivational" -- in that it encourages students to make more of a
"commitment."

What do the rest of you think?

Forrest    

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [ <mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov>
mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Schneider, Jim
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 11:30 PM
To: Jodi Crandall; The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1126] Re: Intensity of Instruction and funding of adult
ESLprograms


At our cc based adult learning center we do not charge any fees for
instruction.

We have dabbled with the managed enrollment, however our institution is
driven by enrollment and contact hours so that we simply cannot afford to
operate in a managed enrollment fashion. I do believe that it is better for
the teachers and students. Unfortunately, operating in a strict fashion, our
enrollment took close to a 50% reduction. Still, recognizing the value of
the concept, the past two years we have attempted a semi-managed enrollment.
In the fall we have a 3 week enrollment period and then hold classes with no
additional students for 5 weeks. Then an additional 3 week open enrollment
followed by no new students for 5 weeks. Ideally, we would operate in this
fashion year round providing some sense of continuity for the instructors
and learners. Unfortunately, student attendance waxes and wanes due to
employment, weather, transportation, etc. and in each year we attempted this
we held to it through the second 5 weeks and then abandon it for the
remainder of the year because student attendance/enrollment declined  to the
point that we had to enroll any learner whenever they were interested to
meet our enrollment goals.

The bulk of our english learners enroll in the three levels of morning
classes which meet Monday through Thursday from 8:30 until 11 a.m.. Our
evening program has varied from 2-3 levels. Evening classes meet Monday and
Wednesday from 6 to 8 p.m.. Both morning and evening classes are offered for
approximately 38 weeks through the fall and spring semesters.

These offerings are "how we have always done it" and are somewhat bound by
the available funds.

Jim, "I like the sound of eloquent" Schneider

Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Sent: Tue 2/5/2008 3:30 PM
To: Assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1116] Intensity of Instruction and funding of adult
ESLprograms


Hi, everyone.  It has been interesting reading the postings today and want
to respond to some of them now.  I just learned from Forrest that his
Internet Service Provider is down, but he expects to be back on line either
tonight or tomorrow.  He'll add his comments later.

In the meantime, let me respond to a couple of themes that have emerged in
the discussion.

Jackie asked what we meant by "intensity of instruction" and Marie provided
a definition from an excellent publication from the Center for Applied
Linguistics which analyzes the effects of instructional hours and intensity
of instruction on NRS level gains in  listening and speaking.

In our study, we define "intensity of instruction" as the number of hours
per week and differentiate it from "duration" which is the total number of
hours for the program.
We think both intensity and duration are important.  It is important to have
enough hours per week of instruction, but also important that there be
enough weeks.  Programs in the 5 community colleges we studied varied from 3
to 20 hours per week of instruction, with 10 hours/week considered
"semi-intensive" and 20 hours/week as "intensive" instruction.

As Jim so eloquently put it, there are some basic reasons why programs might
not offer as many hours of instruction per week as they want to, with
funding being at the root of many of the reasons.

Forrest and I would be interested in knowing how many hours per week your
various programs meet (and for how many weeks) and how you determined that
schedule.  Have you tried more intense programs for shorter periods of time?
What has been the impact on attendance?

Have any of you provided adult ESL/ESOL programs that charge a fee?  We were
surprised to learn of such a program at Bunker Hill Community College.  They
provide free adult ESOL and also a fee-based program in an attempt to
accommodate more learners.  They found that at least some learners were able
to pay the fee and thus they were able to serve more learners.

We'd also like to know if your programs are open-entry/open-exit, with
learners coming to class when they can and sometimes leaving for several
classes before they return, or if you have tried some kind of "managed
enrollment" with attendance expectations of those who are enrolled in your
classes.  Several community colleges have experimented with this approach
and have found it effective.  I know that Forrest will have more to say
about this.

I have to go teach, but when I return, I'd like to talk a bit about issues
surrounding literacy and prior education.

Jodi Crandall


-------------------------------
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-------------------------------
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From forrest at crosslink.net  Thu Feb  7 22:38:59 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 22:38:59 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1172] Re: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B2E@exchr.raritanval.edu>
References: <CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B2E@exchr.raritanval.edu>
Message-ID: <007201c86a04$26b41a50$741c4ef0$@net>

Dear Kevin,

 

Many thanks for providing all of us with a profile of your program. Seeing
the variety of college program goals and designs is extremely valuable in
stimulating ideas about how to do a better job in delivering ESL.

 

Personally, I think that it is perfectly valid for colleges to elect to
offer solely pre-academic ESL at the non-credit level. But it does prompt
the concern about whether other programs in the college's service area are
providing non-academic ESL to large enough numbers of students and at a high
enough quality to "feed" the college program - as well as how well their
efforts articulate with yours. I wonder whether this troubles you, and if so
whether/how you have addressed the issue.  Frankly, I think one reason why
many colleges offer comprehensive ESL programs is that they would prefer to
"make" pre-academic students themselves, rather than rely on others to do
it. Another reason, of course, if that they may not be eligible for
federal/state grant money unless they offer comprehensive programs. Does
your college receive these funds to support its pre-academic program? If
not, how is it supported financially?

 

I heartily agree that helping students set realistic goals and understand
their options is essential. I believe, however, that encouraging students to
expand their goals as they succeed is also essential. For example, many
immigrants come from countries where going to college is the privilege of
very few, and thus may consider that an unrealistic goal  unless they are
encouraged to take the steps necessary (often one step at a time). The
problem seems to be that it is hard for most programs to find the resources
to provide very much guidance of any of these kinds to most students. I
wonder if anyone has any solutions to THAT issue. 

 

In any event, many thanks for fleshing out an interesting model.  

 

Forrest     

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:19 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1148] (no subject)

 

Hi All,

 

I have been reading most of the discussion comments and wanted to address a
few issues. First, however, I'll give a summary of our program. 

 

I teach ESL at Raritan Valley Community College in New Jersey. Our program
serves approximately 350 students from diverse language backgrounds. Our
program offers two pre-academic levels of all skills ESL instruction (a six
hour per week non-credit class). In addition, we have 5 levels of academic
ESL preparation divided into three courses - Reading/Writing, Grammar, and
Speaking/Listening). Our highest level Reading/Writing course gives
successful students 6 elective credits that count towards RVCC graduation,
but those credits do not transfer. Our semesters are 15 weeks. If a student
misses 20% of any class, the instructor may withdraw that student (they are
not, however, obliged to withdraw these students). At the moment, the late
enrollment policy is that students may register for a course prior to the
second week of class but not thereafter. Research, of course, indicates that
students who begin a class late have a much higher rate of failure than
those who begin on time. 

 

In our program, we have three full-time faculty and approximately 16-18
adjuncts. 

 

We have focused our program on academic prep ESL because we are a small
program with limited resources, and we have a very difficult time finding
qualified adjuncts. Also, a significant majority of our students have
signalled their intention to obtain a college degree. Moreover, there are
community programs that offer basic English skills although there is often a
long waiting list to obtain the services. In other issues, we use the
Accuplacer ESL test for placement and have in-house standardized tests at
the end of each level of grammar and reading/writing

 

Within our classes, highly educated non-native speakers usually progress
much more quickly. One of the most challenging groups is students who
graduated from local high schools but still have inadequate English skills -
and not infrequently, weak academic skills in general. One of the strategies
that I would personally wish for is real communication between K-12 and
community colleges so that students get the language skills they need before
they enter college. I understand that there is great pressure to move
students out of ESL in many school districts, but ultimately, it does a huge
disservice both financially and in terms of motivation to students whose
skills remain more BICS than CALP. 

 

I agree with those who suggest that first language literacy issues should be
addressed before students enter ESL. However, it becomes complicated to find
funding and support for such efforts. In my experience, students with low
level literacy skills become frustrated and are not ultimately successful -
probably by any definition. I am uncomfortable with the idea that they are
spending hard-earned money when the chances for success in ESL are minimal.
We advise students that the program is academically-oriented; often they
have little understanding of what that means. 

 

I do not agree with the suggestion that the bar be lowered so that students
with low-intermediate skills be allowed in credit classes (at least at my
college). Historically, other faculty have little experience handling
language issues and are very unhappy when students cannot read, write and
converse at an appropriate level of English. They end up feeling helpless.
Students may pass classes; however, I suspect that instructors do not want
to deal with the challenges and so turn a blind eye and let them through.
Recently, there has been a problem in the nursing department with non-native
English speaking students not passing board exams because they enter the
college from other programs and circumvent ESL with us. They have trouble
reading and answering questions on the exam. This is a significant problem
because nursing programs are judged in terms of the success of their
students on these standardized exams. 

 

I think the measure of success should be based on a realistic assessment of
student goals combined with a real-life discussion of the possibilities and
limitations. Ideally, students would have incremental goals so that success
could build. If the goals for students with low literacy levels are not
carefully discussed and planned, then they will likely encounter more
failure than success because their expectaions will be unrealistic. The more
we have the opportunity to talk to students, the more likely it is that they
can develop short-term goals that are within their reach. Unfortunately, we
have no control over the myriad of complications that accrue in their every
day lives. 

 

Apologies for the length.

 

Kevin Hinkle, Ph.D.

Assistant Professor of ESL/Adjunct Coordinator

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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Fri Feb  8 08:05:24 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 08:05:24 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1173]  Last day for Guest Discussion!
Message-ID: <058b01c86a53$45162c50$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Hello everyone,
 
Today is our final day of discussion with Drs. Chisman and Crandall.  If
you have questions or comments, please post them now.  This discussion
will close at the end of the day today.
 
I would like to thank everyone in the interim for holding such a rich
and interesting discussion - I've learned a lot.  I've been particularly
excited to see some new voices pop up this week - thank you!  It's
really wonderful to hear from more of you (there are nearly 700
subscribers now!).  If you haven't ever posted before, I encourage you
to take the leap.  And of course, it's great to read from the 'regular'
posters as always here.
 
I am preparing a transcript of the discussion for your use afterwards.
I have more than 20 pages of text to work on, so it's going to be a tad
tricky to get the flow of posts so that it makes good sense to all.  I
will alert you when the transcript is ready and can be downloaded -
probably sometime at the end of next week.
 
Ok!  On to our final discussion day then!  Looking forward to what's in
store today!
 
Marie 
 
 
 
 
Marie Cora
 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
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From rhinkle at raritanval.edu  Fri Feb  8 09:42:26 2008
From: rhinkle at raritanval.edu (Hinkle, Robert)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 09:42:26 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1174] Re: (no subject)
References: <CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B2E@exchr.raritanval.edu>
	<007201c86a04$26b41a50$741c4ef0$@net>
Message-ID: <CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B3C@exchr.raritanval.edu>

I believe we do have a hard time getting enough students fed into our program and with the appropriate background to succeed if they do come to us. It is a real problem. There are some workplace ESL programs which are run through our Corporate and Continuing Education Office, but those students rarely, if ever, come to us. And they serve the employees of specific companies as opposed to the community at large. 
 
Our ESL program is within an academic department in the college (Communication and Languages) and so is run like every other. ESL students pay the same tuition and fees as all other students at the college. We do not receive special government funding beyond what the state and counties provide for the college as a whole as a part of our yearly budget.
 
Finances are probably a big reason why we are getting fewer students at the low levels. Community programs are free or low cost; although in the scheme of higher education, the community college is less expensive, it may still be out of reach of many students. 
 
In terms of having a more comprehensive program, we are limited by a small staff, and the unlikelihood of being able to expand given college budgeting restraints. In addition, our three full-time faculty members (including myself) not only teach 15 credit hours per semester but also do the administrative work required. We do advising, scheduling, and the many other tasks associate with keeping the program afloat. The only "official" administrative support for the program is through the 3 hours of overload I receive to serve as Adjunct Coordinator. 
 
The belief that they can attend college does not seem to be a problem with our population although I can certainly see that it could be. A growing problem for us (and many around the country) is the disconnect between high schools and colleges in terms of student preparation. Either the high schools do not think the students are college-bound and so don't bother to give them a college-prep course of study, or there is simply a growing gap between the expectations of each. Additionally, students seem to think that a high school diploma equates to college readiness.
 
We do our best to advise students, but we don't always have enough time - and as professors primarily - may not know ourselves what all of the options for students are. 
 
Kevin 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 10:38 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1172] Re: (no subject)



Dear Kevin,

 

Many thanks for providing all of us with a profile of your program. Seeing the variety of college program goals and designs is extremely valuable in stimulating ideas about how to do a better job in delivering ESL.

 

Personally, I think that it is perfectly valid for colleges to elect to offer solely pre-academic ESL at the non-credit level. But it does prompt the concern about whether other programs in the college's service area are providing non-academic ESL to large enough numbers of students and at a high enough quality to "feed" the college program - as well as how well their efforts articulate with yours. I wonder whether this troubles you, and if so whether/how you have addressed the issue.  Frankly, I think one reason why many colleges offer comprehensive ESL programs is that they would prefer to "make" pre-academic students themselves, rather than rely on others to do it. Another reason, of course, if that they may not be eligible for federal/state grant money unless they offer comprehensive programs. Does your college receive these funds to support its pre-academic program? If not, how is it supported financially?

 

I heartily agree that helping students set realistic goals and understand their options is essential. I believe, however, that encouraging students to expand their goals as they succeed is also essential. For example, many immigrants come from countries where going to college is the privilege of very few, and thus may consider that an unrealistic goal  unless they are encouraged to take the steps necessary (often one step at a time). The problem seems to be that it is hard for most programs to find the resources to provide very much guidance of any of these kinds to most students. I wonder if anyone has any solutions to THAT issue. 

 

In any event, many thanks for fleshing out an interesting model.  

 

Forrest     

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:19 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1148] (no subject)

 

Hi All,

 

I have been reading most of the discussion comments and wanted to address a few issues. First, however, I'll give a summary of our program. 

 

I teach ESL at Raritan Valley Community College in New Jersey. Our program serves approximately 350 students from diverse language backgrounds. Our program offers two pre-academic levels of all skills ESL instruction (a six hour per week non-credit class). In addition, we have 5 levels of academic ESL preparation divided into three courses - Reading/Writing, Grammar, and Speaking/Listening). Our highest level Reading/Writing course gives successful students 6 elective credits that count towards RVCC graduation, but those credits do not transfer. Our semesters are 15 weeks. If a student misses 20% of any class, the instructor may withdraw that student (they are not, however, obliged to withdraw these students). At the moment, the late enrollment policy is that students may register for a course prior to the second week of class but not thereafter. Research, of course, indicates that students who begin a class late have a much higher rate of failure than those who begin on time. 

 

In our program, we have three full-time faculty and approximately 16-18 adjuncts. 

 

We have focused our program on academic prep ESL because we are a small program with limited resources, and we have a very difficult time finding qualified adjuncts. Also, a significant majority of our students have signalled their intention to obtain a college degree. Moreover, there are community programs that offer basic English skills although there is often a long waiting list to obtain the services. In other issues, we use the Accuplacer ESL test for placement and have in-house standardized tests at the end of each level of grammar and reading/writing

 

Within our classes, highly educated non-native speakers usually progress much more quickly. One of the most challenging groups is students who graduated from local high schools but still have inadequate English skills - and not infrequently, weak academic skills in general. One of the strategies that I would personally wish for is real communication between K-12 and community colleges so that students get the language skills they need before they enter college. I understand that there is great pressure to move students out of ESL in many school districts, but ultimately, it does a huge disservice both financially and in terms of motivation to students whose skills remain more BICS than CALP. 

 

I agree with those who suggest that first language literacy issues should be addressed before students enter ESL. However, it becomes complicated to find funding and support for such efforts. In my experience, students with low level literacy skills become frustrated and are not ultimately successful - probably by any definition. I am uncomfortable with the idea that they are spending hard-earned money when the chances for success in ESL are minimal. We advise students that the program is academically-oriented; often they have little understanding of what that means. 

 

I do not agree with the suggestion that the bar be lowered so that students with low-intermediate skills be allowed in credit classes (at least at my college). Historically, other faculty have little experience handling language issues and are very unhappy when students cannot read, write and converse at an appropriate level of English. They end up feeling helpless. Students may pass classes; however, I suspect that instructors do not want to deal with the challenges and so turn a blind eye and let them through. Recently, there has been a problem in the nursing department with non-native English speaking students not passing board exams because they enter the college from other programs and circumvent ESL with us. They have trouble reading and answering questions on the exam. This is a significant problem because nursing programs are judged in terms of the success of their students on these standardized exams. 

 

I think the measure of success should be based on a realistic assessment of student goals combined with a real-life discussion of the possibilities and limitations. Ideally, students would have incremental goals so that success could build. If the goals for students with low literacy levels are not carefully discussed and planned, then they will likely encounter more failure than success because their expectaions will be unrealistic. The more we have the opportunity to talk to students, the more likely it is that they can develop short-term goals that are within their reach. Unfortunately, we have no control over the myriad of complications that accrue in their every day lives. 

 

Apologies for the length.

 

Kevin Hinkle, Ph.D.

Assistant Professor of ESL/Adjunct Coordinator

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From taklein at austin.rr.com  Fri Feb  8 09:48:51 2008
From: taklein at austin.rr.com (Ted Klein)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 08:48:51 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1175] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
	Comments?!
References: <1dd5701e0802051006i6f9e4473wcc9aa9810ca65f7c@mail.gmail.com>	<OF56C5D320.83B8357C-ON072573E6.0065B469-072573E6.0065D41F@yc.edu>	<000d01c86854$6e1dfde0$4a59f9a0$@net>	<1dd5701e0802060401r7fe15e6apb5e2af1d1564f98a@mail.gmail.com>	<8CA36DB4BFA2167-E5C-2BC8@WEBMAIL-MA05.sysops.aol.com><49516.130.85.83.224.1202329625.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>	<8CA372E1335CD5E-1370-2018@webmail-da11.sysops.aol.com><003701c86991$82141df0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
	<8CA37CAAE28180F-147C-1241@mblk-d23.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <006401c86a61$b871d920$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>

Andres,

I'm not too sure that some of your perspectives haven't been somewhat altered by living in El Paso. I say that with total respect for El Paso and for your answer. Let me explain. First, I've lived in Texas most of my life, except for some time overseas. I know just about all of our border towns, from El Paso to Brownsville. I've also lived in nine countries outside of the United States and traveled perhaps in twenty more. AXIOM: All over the world, border towns are different  from other towns. Persons, regardless of ancestry,  who live in border towns anywhere tend to be bicultural and bilingual. They also tend to identify with each other on close levels as being a well-made "tossed salad." If most or all of your students plan to stay in El Paso for the rest of their lives, I totally agree with what you say. However, if they want to go to cities north of the border area; Dallas, Ft. Worth, Austin, Houston, Waco, or out of state, then the picture changes. I am almost as comfortable in Spanish as I am in English and have dealt with persons from every country in Latin America comfortably and successfully, as well as Spain. However, I do not represent anything close to a majority, particularly when it comes to having a business. When persons go for job interviews in non-border towns, being truly bilingual is a great asset and can even result in higher pay and better opportunities. That is true for Spanish speakers and English speakers. However, most of your persons who have had to take the GED in Spanish are not truly bilingual. That's a fact and when they go for a job interview, the human resources person doesn't need paperwork to know that there may be communication problems with clients and on the telephone. The fact is that life is short. However it is long enough for persons to spend a couple of more years acquiring English if it gives them more options in life. Again, if they plan to spend their lives in a border town, this may not be a problem at all. 

Three years ago, my wife and I and one of our colleagues, took an ESL teaching gig at a cookie factory in Austin. Quite a few of their employees did not speak English and the company wanted to fix that situation. There were 27 persons who had volunteered to take English classes at work, maybe six hours a week. The first problem was how to determine divisions of 27 students among three teachers. I got out a brief "test" that I had used to determine readiness for the ALCPT tests in the past.

Here is a copy:

ORAL INTERVIEW QUESTIONS TO DETERMINE ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE

 

                                                      Block 2                 Ted Klein

 

Questions marked with an asterisk * are mandatory. Of the remaining questions, ten should be selected at random. Speech of the interviewer will be at normal speed and clarity, with NO exaggeration.

 

1. What is your name please?* -----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

2. Where are you from?* -------

 

3. What part of XXXXXXX are you from?-------

 

4. What is your native language? -------

 

5. How long have you been in America? -------

 

6. Do you read English?* -------

 

7. Did you study English in your country? -------

 

8. How long did you study English? -------

 

9. Are you enjoying the U.S.A? -------

 

10. What do you like here? -------

 

11. Is there anything that you don't like? -------

 

12. Have you studied any other languages besides English? -------

 

13. Why do you want to learn English? -------

 

14. How many years of education have you had? -------

 

15. Do you have any hobbies? What are they? -------

 

16. Do you have any American friends to practice English with? -------

 

17. Do you work?  Where? -------

 

18. What are your plans for the future? -------

 

19. Why did you come to America? -------

 

20. Do you have any questions for me? -------

 

 

Mark responses: 0 no answer.   0+ telegraphic/very simple response. 

1 simple, but complete response.  1+ functional and clear response.

2   somewhat elaborate, fairly clear and mostly grammatical response.

 

Interviewees with ten or more answers in the 1+ to 2 range should be ready to take a written

proficiency test of listening and reading skills. Non-readers are excluded. (ref: Ques. 6)


The three of us interviewed the 27 candidates together. 19 out of the 27 were not able to answer the second question: e.g. (Teacher) Where are you from?
(Candidate) ?Mande?  (Teacher) Where are you from? ?Como?  (Teacher) Are you from Mexico? (Candidate) M?xico, "jes." One answered, "M?xico, no, Peru s?."

The 8 students who were able to answer that question and maybe four or five more questions were assigned to an "advanced class." The others were split into two groups. What happened here? Many of these persons had lived in Austin for some time. Some for up to ten years. Most had families. The families naturally used Spanish at home, even their children who spoke English at school. They had Spanish-speaking supervisors. They watched television in Spanish. They ate at Mexican restaurants. They went to Spanish-speaking doctors. 95% of their friends were Hispanic. In plain language, if they wanted to stay at the cookie factory, making cookies, they didn't need English, although the company preferred that they know English for upward mobility. This program went on for three or four months.The company merged and our program ended. We did not use Spanish in class. In early training I use materials that I developed based on some of the old "direct methods;" picture flashcards, Cuisenaire rods, etc. and we also concentrated strongly on English sounds, particularly listening and identification. The program went surprisingly well and many of the students were very disappointed when it ended. They had already found some new places to go and some were acquiring English-speaking friends.

So what is the good news? Several of our former students have entered the Austin Community College AE program and are doing well. One of them is in my class now. She has a child and often works at night at the cookie factory. Sometimes she comes in looking very tired, but she's surviving. She wants to be a Certified Nursing Assistant. She'll make it! She plans to take the GED in English next year and enter the Nursing Program at ACC. Most of her future patients will not be bilingual and she will be ready for them. 

That's about it.

Ted  
www.tedklein-ESL.com

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: andresmuro at aol.com 
  To: assessment at nifl.gov 
  Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 12:02 PM
  Subject: [Assessment 1153] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!


  Ted:

  How would the employer know the language that Julian took the GED in?
  In most states the certificate does not tell you the Language. Texas is one of the few states that tells you the language. However, it is so hard to find that most people wouldn't even know. I have a hard time finding the language reference even though I have seen millions of certificates. Fact is most employers don't even know that people can take the GED in anything other than English, don't ask and do not scrutinize certificates to figure out scores, language, etc. A few might, but the majority don't. For low literacy Spanish speakers it may take them a couple of years to be ready to take the GED in Spanish. It make take them 2 more years to be ready for the English GED. Would you rather hold them two more years. They can take the GED in Spanish and continue to study English. Once they have sufficient English, they can decide if they want to take it in English or to move on to other things.

  Andres





  -----Original Message-----
  From: Ted Klein <taklein at austin.rr.com>
  To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
  Sent: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 6:58 am
  Subject: [Assessment 1150] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!


  Jodi and Andres,

  There is one very real problem with taking the GED in Spanish that I'm aware of. If you have two immigrants, Roberto and Ju?n, and they both apply for the same job and if Ju?n took the GED in Spanish and Roberto took it in English, guess who gets the job?
  Yes, life isn't fair, but most U.S. businesses prefer persons who have gone "all the way" with English. My students and I have discussed this and they have seen or know of this situation with their friends and family members. That is why many AE students remain longer in our ESL classes. Of course in many border towns, this may not be as important since many of the employers are Hispanic or are native speakers of English who are functional in Spanish. However, many customers of the businesses will need to use English. 

  In my current class in Austin, Texas with eleven students, five different languages are spoken. Should we offer the GED in Arabic, Chinese, Korean, and Juba as well as Spanish?


  Ted
  www.tedklein-ESL.com 



  ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: andresmuro at aol.com 
    To: crandall at umbc.edu ; assessment at nifl.gov 
    Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 5:21 PM
    Subject: [Assessment 1146] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!


    Jodi:

    The credit ESL program in the college is very academic. However it provides students with financial aid and other goodies. We feel that the students will not do well in a credit academic ESL program until they have a level comparable to GED in their native language. Also, a GED certificate is a way to demonstrate ability to benefit to qualify for financial aid. Those students who get into the credit ESL program without native language literacy don't do well. 

    Students can attend other ESL classes in the community while they are attending our classes. We stopped providing ESL because of limited funding to provide what we would consider meaningful ESL. Also, our Spanish GED program is fairly intensive and our students would not have enough time to attend an additional program. We have a few students who may be attending our classes and an ESL class concurrently. Those are a minority

    The truth is that we started as an ESL literacy program many years ago. There was virtually no funding for  literacy ESL unless it  had all kind of testing requirements. Also, it is very hard to train teachers to be really good at ESL. The system that encourages large number of untrained part timers prevents this from happening. 

    I know that a lot of people in these listservs claim exemplary service and illustrate  with examples of what they have done. I don't doubt that  their claims are 100% true. However,  we are in the minority. If I could get you and Heide and Elsa and Andy Nash and Leonore and Deborah Schwartz, and Anson Green and Federico and others to be my ESL teachers, I would have the best program in the world. However, the fact is that in addition to the barriers that ESL students face in their daily lives, plus the bureaucratic and assessment barriers that the system creates for teachers and students, plus the difficulty hiring and retaining highly qualified ESL staff makes it very difficult to have a successful ESL program. 

    I feel that until we get rid of WIA/NRS it will be tough to create good stuff in a systematic way. 

    Andres







    -----Original Message-----
    From: JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu>
    To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
    Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 1:27 pm
    Subject: [Assessment 1141] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!


Andres,



It is great that you provide Spanish language literacy and GED classes for

your students.  There's no question that native language literacy

contributes not just to the development of the first language, but also to

English language development when students take oral ESL classes.  There

is some research in this area by Michele Burtoff with Haitians in the U.S.

and there is a lot of research (see especially research by David Ramirez

which compares children who had 6, 3 or no years of bilingual education)

that shows that providing bilingual education not only has all the

benefits that would be expected, but students also achieve in English as

well or better than those who only had instruction in English.



We also found that Spanish GED classes had large numbers of students at

the colleges, since students who take the GED in Spanish are able to

bypass the need for extensive ESL just to get this credential.  They might

want to take ESL as well, but the desire for the GED is often for

work-related reasons.  I'm not clear on why you ask students to wait until

after they have passed the GED to take ESL classes.  Can you tell us a

little more about that?



Of course not all students who enroll in adult ESL are Spanish speakers

and there may not be enough who speak any language to provide literacy

classes for them in their own language, but programs might try to partner

with immigrant or refugee-related community-based organizations which

could reach more students and also identify someone to provide the

instruction.  Still, there will  be students who will not be able to take

literacy classes in their own languages and for them, a separate ESL

literacy class seems to be the best option.



It would be great to hear from others about their experiences both with

first language (Spanish and other languages) literacy classes, Spanish GED

classes, and literacy ESL classes.



How do you place students in your literacy classes?  Do you use a

standardized test or do you have informal ways of determining if someone

would be better served in a literacy ESL class?





Jodi



>

>  Problem is that in many ESL people are placed in ESL classes based on an

> English placement multiple choice test. A student with advanced education

> in L1 and one with little education in L1 may know very little English

> and they may both be placed in the same level. The student with advance

> education will progress much faster than the one with little education.

> The advanced L1 student will understand concepts like sentence,

> paragraph, verb, subject, direct object, adjective, composition and essay

> readily. The one with with little education will need to understand these

> concepts. It takes a while for people to master these concepts. A highly

> educated L2? learner will likely progress faster academically in a second

> language than a fluent native speaker of that? language with limited

> academic education, for the same reason. This is observed regularly in

> universities all over the US. highly educated foreign students who

> acquired English as L2 recently will do better than their Eng

>  lish speaking counterparts in academic tasks in English. Jim Cummins has

> articulated this clearly with his BICS and CALPS.

>

> In our program at El Paso Community College we have found evidence of

> this. We stopped doing literacy ESL a while back for this reason. The

> college has an academic ESL program. Instead of doing ESL literacy we

> started offering Spanish Literacy and GED many years ago since the vast

> majority of our students are Spanish speakers. Once our students acquire

> their Spanish GED they transition into the ESL program and do better than

> those students who don't have L1 academic skills. Even if takes them a

> while to acquire the L1 literacy, they will do better. Those with no L1

> literacy often stay in ESL forever and they drop out, start again in

> another program, drop out and continue the same pattern. I think that this

> happens because of the mixture of academically ready students and those

> that are not ready, since most ESL programs focus on traditional

> academics. For L1 low literacy students to be able to progress in L2 there

> has to be a program specifically designed for them that teache

>  s skills in L2 in new and innovative ways without interference from

> academically skilled L1 students. Right now we don't have a system that

> systematically does this, and the WIA/NRS system prevents this form

> happening.

>

> Hope that this makes sense,

>

> Andres

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Jackie Coelho <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>

> To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>

> Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 5:01 am

> Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or

> Comments?!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Forrest,

>

>

> ?? I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy

> background and those without. These two groups have such different needs.

> Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs

> of either group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate

> the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor

> does not keep up with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they

> often become frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the

> instructor keeps up with those students, the others are unable to keep up

> and they get frustrated.

>

>

>

> ? I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of

> how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.

>

>

> Jackie

>

> ?

>

>

> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in

> student performance:

>

>

> ?

>

>

> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly

> educated students do better in terms of ?persistence, learning gains, and

> transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably

> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education

> makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of

> their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That

> is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education

> makes? Or any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior

> education that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are

> completely illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high

> school graduates, college graduates, etc. -- ?or is level of prior

> education pretty much of a continuum?

>

>

>

> ?

>

>

> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly

> educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably students

> with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower

> level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by

> definition) ?in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes

> math. Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at

> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be

> desirable to place less highly educated students in separate classes from

> those with more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for

> them accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or

> the Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these

> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of

> "bi-lingual education" that should be tried?

>

>

>

> ?

>

>

> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the

> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of

> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large

> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means),

> ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very little education

> in their native countries and too little money to serve them. ?So anyone

> who has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a

> lot by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.

>

>

>

> ?

>

>

> Forrest Chisman

>

>

> Vice President

>

>

> CAAL

>

>

> ?

>

>

> ??

>

>

> ?

>

>

>

>

> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On

> Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu

>

> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM

> To: The Assessment Discussion List

> Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or

> Comments?!

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ?

>

>

>

> Hi Jackie,

>

> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my

> former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual education

> in the K-12 school system.

>

>

> Tina

>

> Tina Luffman

> Coordinator, Developmental Education

> Verde Valley Campus

> 928-634-6544

> tina_luffman at yc.edu

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> "Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>

>

> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov

>

>

> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Please respond to

> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> To

>

>

>

>

>

> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> cc

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Subject

>

>

>

>

>

> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or ? ? ?

> ?Comments?!

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hi Tina,

>

> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in

> favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in

>

> the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation

> in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second

> or third language.

>

> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not

> written.

>

>

> Jackie

>

>

> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:

>

>> Hi list members,

>>

>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to that

>> of

>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country

>> they

>

>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather quickly

>> and

>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their country

>> or

>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much

>

>> advancement.

>>

>> This experience relates well to research done among Native American

>> tribes

>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught

>> literacy

>

>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who

>> tried

>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their own

>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The

>

>> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much

>> easier

>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this is

>> something deserving more research.

>

>>

>> Tina

>> Tina Luffman

>> Coordinator, Developmental Education

>> Verde Valley Campus

>> 928-634-6544

>> tina_luffman at yc.edu

>

>>

>> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----

>>

>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>

>

>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>

>> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov

>

>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM

>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or

>> Comments?!

>>

>>

>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed

>

>> Warning: (not named).

>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more

>> information.

>>

>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three

>> years)

>

>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,

>> particularly if

>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at

>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I

>> would

>

>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a

>> student

>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because

>> he/she

>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try

>> to

>

>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard

>> concept

>> in a second language.

>>

>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play

>> a

>

>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned

>> from

>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than

>> classes).

>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.

>> It's

>

>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL

>> teachers.

>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging

>> me

>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're

>

>> making some progress.

>>

>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?

>>

>> ________________________________

>>

>

>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora

>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM

>

>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov

>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!

>

>>

>>

>> Hello everyone,

>>

>> I'm so surprised! ?No one has anything to comment on regarding your

>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? ?I was very

>

>> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that

>> Dr.

>> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research: ?a lack of intensity

>> of

>> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities

>> for

>

>> professional development.

>>

>> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL

>> student

>> from advancing? ?What do you try to do about that?

>>

>

>> Please post your questions and comments now.

>>

>> Thanks!

>>

>> Marie Cora

>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator

>>

>>

>

>> Marie Cora

>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>

>

>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator

>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

>

>>

>>

>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and

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-- 

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

Professor, Education Department

Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture

Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual

Education

University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)

1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250

ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880

email: crandall at umbc.edu

www.umbc.edu/llc/

www.umbc.edu/esol/

www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html







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From rhinkle at raritanval.edu  Fri Feb  8 10:03:55 2008
From: rhinkle at raritanval.edu (Hinkle, Robert)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 10:03:55 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1176] Re: Observation checklist
References: <C3CE4BCC.8F31%usha_narayanan@fuhsd.org><52294.130.85.83.224.1202268183.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><001e01c868c8$49636de0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75><49507.130.85.83.224.1202328350.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><007e01c86927$0ca72220$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
	<50639.138.88.30.77.1202391909.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B3E@exchr.raritanval.edu>

Jodi,
 
At Raritan Valley since my arrival five years ago, we have put in place homemade standardized exit exams for grammar and reading/writing classes at each level so that we have some way of ensuring that students with different instructors enter the next level with approximately the same skill level. We did that because many instructors engaged in social promotion. The exit exams have improved the consistency of the program and helped even out the skill level within classes.
 
We still have the social promotion problem with the listening/speaking classe because there is no standardized assessment, and instructors sometimes pass students who really do not have the requisite level. In fact, some students have complained that the listening/speaking courses are a waste of time because they have classmates in an upper level class who have great difficulty speaking. 
 
Even though we have course outlines with clearly defined learning outcomes, my experience has taught me to be wary of the open-ended concept of professional wisdom. That sometimes morphs into a misguided belief that passing unprepared students is somehow constructive.
 
Kevin

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 8:45 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1149] Re: Observation checklist



Ted,

Did you use an oral proficiency interview at the Defense Language
Institute?  If so, how log did it take to administer to each student?  I
think time is a real barrier to most adult ESL/ESOL programs.  Thus, they
use tests that can be administered to students as a group and easily
evaluated.

For some college programs for international students, a whole range of
tests are used for placement, including a writing sample, a reading test,
and an oral interview.  Clearly that's more possible with smaller numbers
of students who are also paying for the classes.

What do you think is needed in the way of tests?  In Passing the Torch,
Forrest and I point to assessment as a major issue facing all the colleges
we studied.  We recommend the development of a test of all four skills
that, if possible, could be administered and scored in a reasonable amount
of time.

Have you tried the BEST Plus test?  What has been your experience with
that test?

I agree that for placement at literacy levels, a simple test developed by
a program might be sufficient.

I also think that for progress through the levels, student achievement in
the previous class, as judged by the instructor ("professional wisdom"),
is still the best determiner of whether a student is ready to go to the
next level.

Jodi


> Jodi,
>
> Same here! As long as the BEST Test is used to show gains, I'm afraid that
> there isn't much chance that REAL gains could be charted and compared. It
> is used too often to measure progress and is not as good for that purpose
> as one would hope. Really valid proficiency tests are the only way to
> prove the point. Achievement tests don't tell much in terms of overall
> progress. I would also guess that it would take a minimum of 120 hours of
> solid training to have a measureable level with any test that one could
> play numbers with. Other factors including attendance, etc. would have to
> be factored in. Adults have families and jobs in the way of total
> dedication to attendance. Also, one would have to have a test in which
> human judgment would play a small role. The BEST is fine for its original
> purpose, which was to place persons with others at their same levels of
> communication. Good measurement is the only way to prove anything. I often
> rely on plain old gut instincts to figure how things are really going. I
> know that's not very scientific.
>
> Cheers,  Ted
> www.tedklein-ESL.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:05 PM
> Subject: [Assessment 1138] Re: Observation checklist
>
>
> Hi, Ted.  Glad to make contact again.
>
> I definitely agree that smaller classes are more likely to bring learner
> gains, especially in language, since students will have more opportunity
> to speak when there are fewer students.  I didn't know about the DLI
> policy, but it is a good one.  The problem with adult ESL classes, I fear,
> is that there is such limited money available that programs would find it
> difficult to keep class size to these numbers.
>
> Has anyone tried to reduce class size and chart the learning gains?  If
> so, please share with us all.  It might be that this would be a good
> investment.  If students in smaller classes make faster gains, then there
> would be more spaces available as these students transitioned to other
> classes or the workforce.
>
> Jodi
>
> Hi Jodi,
>>
>> Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times in the
>> past,
>> I think at least once when you visited the Defense Language Institute
>> English Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I
>> mention
>> DLI is that it represents a language program with little leeway to fail.
>> I
>> spent 20 years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is to train
>> allied and friendly military personnel worldwide in general and
>> specialized English. Most students start ESL in their home countries
>> with
>> DLIELC personnel advising, and in some cases teaching, in these overseas
>> military language centers. It may still be the largest language program
>> in
>> the world. Students after reaching certain levels go to Lackland Air
>> Force
>> Base in San Antonio, complete their general English, usually go through
>> specialized terminology and then on to whatever training their country
>> needs with the U.S. military. Students have run the full gamut from
>> recruits and NCO's up to generals and admirals. This is a very tightly
>> organized "well-packaged" language program with predictable training
>> times
>> and results.
>>
>> Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb while I was at
>> at DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum. This was
>> rarely broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters' bean
>> counter would calculate that if a mere two or three students could be
>> added to a class, voila, look at the money we would save! This money
>> came
>> both from foreign governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue and then
>> try
>> it, I believe several times over the years. However, in an organization
>> that has a very effective testing system; both achievement and
>> proficiency, it was soon noticed that the scores were going down, just
>> enough so that they could prove that no money was being saved on teacher
>> salaries and other expenses. I spent three years with the Royal Thai
>> Navy
>> for DLI as language training advisor and remember having to twist arms
>> with the RTN Navy Education Department with the same problem. They
>> wanted
>> 15 in a class.
>>
>> Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during my last
>> eight years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes have
>> consistently been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an
>> organization is stuck with a low budget, make the hours of training per
>> week lower, but keep the class sizes within 10 or so students. Fewer
>> hours
>> of really effective training are certainly better than large classes
>> where
>> the student attention level and collegiality are reduced. I remember
>> Mary
>> Finocchiaro saying years ago that she didn't care how many students were
>> in her classroom, she would teach them! Unfortunately, most of us just
>> aren't THAT dynamic.
>>
>> Cheers,  Ted
>> www.tedklein-ESL.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM
>> Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist
>>
>>
>> Usha,
>>
>> I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
>> experience that with more than 10 students, learning decreases?  If so,
>> how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be
>> interested
>> in ways to decrease class size.
>>
>> It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
>> constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more
>> important
>> to involve them in activities in which all get to participate, which
>> means
>> less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small classes
>> need that.
>>
>> What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?
>>
>> You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop out of
>> classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any of you
>> keep
>> records of your students that would identify those who do return?  Do
>> you
>> have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning English
>> outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know of any
>> research about adult English Language Learners in this area, but there
>> is
>> an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State
>> University
>> following adult literacy level students for several years.  They have
>> identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside of the
>> classroom and also that some of these learners come back to classes
>> after
>> being out of them for some time.
>>
>> Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of you been
>> able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of these
>> services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have been most
>> effective? If you teach in a community college, have your students had
>> access to the various support services provided to other students?
>>
>> Several of you have talked about the differences in progress made by
>> students with more advanced education and those who are at literacy
>> level.
>>  Because literacy level students take longer in making progress, most
>> programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and
>> literate
>> beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and literacy
>> will
>> need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to talk about
>> what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about
>> persistence
>> of literacy level students and their learning gains.
>>
>> Students with advanced education in their own language may be able to
>> have
>> a condensed program since they are already experienced as students and
>> often have high motivation to get through English so that they can take
>> courses related to their previous or future career.  City College of San
>> Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters worth of
>> work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer something along
>> these lines?
>>
>> Jodi
>>
>>
>>> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked the tool
>>> that
>>> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope that it
>>> is
>>> not
>>> something that has already been asked and answered.
>>>
>>> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of our ESL
>>> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal constraints
>>> and
>>> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a positive
>>> to
>>> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we expect to see
>>> more
>>> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the numbers.
>>>
>>> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy programs
>>> because of many socio-economic factors.
>>>
>>> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing market (in
>>> past
>>> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to stay in
>>> one
>>> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen more in
>>> people
>>> who do not have high levels of education from their native country).
>>>
>>> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from their
>>> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some kind of
>>> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs, go in and
>>> out
>>> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of various
>>> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and have no time
>>> to
>>> practice.
>>>
>>> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in educational
>>> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
>>> availability
>>> of  community resources.
>>>
>>> Usha Narayanan
>>> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
>>> California
>>> 408-522-2737
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Marie,
>>>>
>>>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and out of the
>>>> U.S.A.
>>>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc. in ESL.
>>>> It
>>>> is
>>>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that I'm
>>>> back
>>>> in the
>>>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the Defense
>>>> Language
>>>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching immigrants part
>>>> time for
>>>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin
>>>> Community
>>>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what language
>>>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to work at a
>>>> higher
>>>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I
>>>> apply
>>>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy
>>>> traps."
>>>> I
>>>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
>>>> interested and
>>>> it is published on my website at
>>>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel absolutely free
>>>> to use
>>>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank you very
>>>> much for
>>>> the input. Questions are welcome.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,   Ted
>>>>
>>>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>>>>   Independent Consultant in Language
>>>>          and Intercultural Training
>>>>               14456 Agarita Road
>>>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>>>>              Phone:512-266-1801
>>>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
>>>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-esl.com/> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>
>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi  Ted,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it
>>>>> yourself?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try
>>>>> to
>>>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do others
>>>>> you
>>>>> work with?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the
>>>>> students
>>>>> advance?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
>>>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>>>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marie,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ted
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-esl.com/> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
>>>>>>  NO
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    supportive personality?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    other and the instructor?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     target language  proficiency?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     than push them?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     exaggerated speech?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     results?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---- Original Message -----
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello  everyone,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on  regarding
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??  I was
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
>>>>>>> intensity
>>>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
>>>>>>> opportunities
>>>>>>> for  professional development.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>>>>>>> student
>>>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>>>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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>>>> Email delivered to usha_narayanan at fuhsd.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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>>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>> Professor, Education Department
>> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
>> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in
>> ESOL/Bilingual
>> Education
>> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
>> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
>> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
>> email: crandall at umbc.edu
>> www.umbc.edu/llc/
>> www.umbc.edu/esol/
>> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>
>
>
> --
> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Professor, Education Department
> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
> Education
> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
> email: crandall at umbc.edu
> www.umbc.edu/llc/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>


--
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html



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From jschneider at eicc.edu  Fri Feb  8 10:30:45 2008
From: jschneider at eicc.edu (Schneider, Jim)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 09:30:45 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1177] Re: {Dangerous Content?} assessments
In-Reply-To: <004b01c869f8$8d950a60$a8bf1f20$@net>
Message-ID: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870AD7F2CE@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>

CASAS is the assessment of choice (mandated) in Iowa. If teachers and
learners buy into competency-based instruction, the CASAS assessments
have some utility. The short-comings and artificiality of standardized
tests seem to be amplified with the ESL. 

The reading and listening tests fall short of providing a comprehensive
useful assessment of the student's abilities at orientation. We offer
three levels in the morning, beginning, intermediate, and advanced, with
the placement being done using their writing (application), speaking and
listening (initial interview questions), and reading (based on the
literacy demonstrated with the application and interview). 

However, due to the mix of skills, the beginning and intermediate are
really blended multi-level classes with some beginners who can read, but
struggle with speech and writing, and some intermediate who can speak
very clearly, but struggle with the reading and writing and virtually
every other possible combination. 

Similarly, teachers and students have been frustrated with the lack of
progress in post-testing as well as the inconsistency of the scores.
Those students that bring high literacy skills to the class tend to have
fairly consistent scores. Those who are not as literate (and are a
growing population in ESL) can swing up and down the scaled score
throughout the year with little rhyme or reason. 

Bottom line - CASAS works well for the standardization required by NRS,
but is not as powerful or useful in regard to teaching and learning as
one would like. 

Jim Schneider

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 8:16 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1170] Re: {Dangerous Content?} assessments

Gail,

Good question!!!!!!!!!! I'd be interested in the replies. Because CASAS
is MANDATED in many states, and most programs don't want to use more
than one assessment (because of limited time for testing and fear of
over-testing).
What do you all think of CASAS for ESL?

Forrest 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Gail Burnett
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:08 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1162] {Dangerous Content?} assessments

Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
Warning: (not named).
Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more
information.

All the discussion on this list (the first I've ever joined) has been
fascinating. I have a question I haven't seen addressed. Someone said
that the BEST-Plus is the only valid kind of test for ESL learners. What
does anyone think of the CASAS? That's what we use with our adult
students, both ELLs and native speakers. I know it wasn't designed for
ESL use but it does use real-life material (road maps, pay stubs, store
signs, etc.) and I think that's good. What has always bothered me is
that it's taken silently. That doesn't seem right for our lower level
students, who rarely make many gains.
I wonder if it's considered valid for them or not. I know that other ESL
programs do use it.

Thanks.


-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of
assessment-request at nifl.gov
Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 5:57 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: Assessment Digest, Vol 29, Issue 28
 
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Today's Topics:

   1. [Assessment 1160] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
      or	Comments?! (Jodi Crandall)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 17:22:49 -0500
From: Jodi Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu>
Subject: [Assessment 1160] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
	or	Comments?!
To: "Forrest Chisman" <forrest at crosslink.net>
Cc: 'The Assessment Discussion List' <assessment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <076B1938-8827-49B0-9890-3DA0BC4C3641 at umbc.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Forrest,

I'm not sure yet that I know the question, but here goes ...

I don't know of community college programs now that continue to separate
out literacy level students after the actual literacy class.  Does
anyone else>

When I mentioned higher levels of prior education, in this context, I
didn't mean college-educated students, but those with closer to a high
school education n their own countries.  These are the students that we
used to believe were the main students that we served, not the literacy
level students who are increasingly being enrolled  in our classes.

For highly educated individuals, those with college degrees in their own
countries, most of the programs that I know seek to transition these
students into more academic ESL programs at the intermediate levels.  In
fact, some community colleges, like the English for Academic Purposes
College of Lake County, that we studied, created a seamless transition
from noncredit to credit academic ESL courses by working backwards from
the credit expectations and then aligning the intermediate level
noncredit ESL to them.

City College, as you know, provides accelerated ESL classes (two terms
in
one) for more educated students, since they are likely to be able to
make faster progress.


Jodi

On Feb 6, 2008, at 5:52 PM, Forrest Chisman wrote:

> Jodi,
>
> I think you misunderstood me (as usual) :-). My question wasn't about 
> separating out literacy level students. I agree most programs do that.
> My question was about the other practice from the 1980's you mention
> -- separate classes for students with higher levels of prior education

> ABOVE the literacy level.
>
> Forrest
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM
> To: The Assessment Discussion List
> Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions 
> or Comments?!
>
> Jackie and Forrest,
>
> I think most large programs separate literacy level students from 
> others who are at a beginning level.  I know that back in the 1980s 
> when there were large refugee ESL programs, several community colleges

> created parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels and even into 
> intermediate levels, with one set of classes for students with limited

> literacy or prior schooling and another for more educated students.
> The reason was that the students with less education made slower 
> progress.  Some of this is undoubtedly due to the way in which we 
> teach English (requiring literacy), but it is also because students 
> need to become accustomed to attending classes, learning to hold and 
> use a pen or pencil, and a wide range of basic skills that come with 
> being a student in a class.
>
> Those of you who have separate classes for those who need  
> literacy:   Can
> you tell us what kind of classes or program you provide?
>
> Those who teach both literacy and more educated learners in the same
> class:  Can you let us know how you manage?  What are some ways in 
> which you accommodate both sets of needs?
>
> Jodi
>> Forrest,
>>    I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy 
>> background and those without. These two groups have such different 
>> needs.
>> Having both
>> in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs of 
>> either group well and I find that often the stronger students 
>> dominate the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the 
>> instructor does not keep up with the students who are learning at a 
>> faster rate, they often become frustrated and leave or mentally check

>> out. However, if the instructor keeps up with those students, the 
>> others are unable to keep up and they get frustrated.
>>   I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And 
>> regardless of how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.
>> Jackie
>>
>>
>> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>  To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor

>>> in student performance:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more 
>>> highly educated students do better in terms of  persistence, 
>>> learning gains, and transitions. And learning theory would lead us 
>>> to expect this.
>>> Regrettably
>>> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior 
>>> education makes, because too few programs track the level of prior 
>>> education of their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any 
>>> of you do this?
>>> That is,
>>> do
>>> you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education 
>>> makes?
>>> Or
>>> any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior 
>>> education that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are 
>>> completely illiterate, students who at least reached high school, 
>>> high school graduates, college graduates, etc. --  or is level of 
>>> prior education pretty much of a continuum?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between 
>>> highly educated students and those with less prior education?
>>> Presumably students with very low levels of education are more 
>>> likely end up in the lower level ESL courses (Literacy or 
>>> Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by
>>> definition)  in the business of teaching basic literacy and 
>>> sometimes math.
>>> Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at 
>>> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would 
>>> it be desirable to place less highly educated students in separate 
>>> classes from those with more education and adjust the 
>>> curriculum/support systems for them accordingly? Some programs have 
>>> tried "native language literacy"
>>> or the
>>> Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these 
>>> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of 
>>> "bi-lingual education" that should be tried?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because 
>>> the people who study immigration tell us that the level of education

>>> of immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates 
>>> large numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever 
>>> that means), ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very

>>> little education in their native countries and too little money to 
>>> serve them.  So anyone who has any ideas about how to bridge this 
>>> "education gap" could help us a lot by posting ideas about how to 
>>> close it on this discussion list.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Forrest Chisman
>>>
>>> Vice President
>>>
>>> CAAL
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
>>> bounces at nifl.gov] *On Behalf Of *Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
>>> *To:* The Assessment Discussion List
>>> *Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No 
>>> Questions or Comments?!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Jackie,
>>>
>>> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what

>>> my former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual 
>>> education in the K-12 school system.
>>>
>>> Tina
>>>
>>> Tina Luffman
>>> Coordinator, Developmental Education Verde Valley Campus
>>> 928-634-6544
>>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>>
>>>   *"Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>* Sent by: 
>>> assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>
>>> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM
>>>
>>> Please respond to
>>> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>>
>>> To
>>>
>>> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>>
>>> cc
>>>
>>> Subject
>>>
>>> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or 
>>> Comments?!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Tina,
>>>
>>> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement 
>>> in favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not 
>>> implemented in the best way. For many years people have known that a

>>> good foundation in literacy in the first language will facilitate 
>>> learning in a second or third language.
>>>
>>> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not

>>> written.
>>>
>>> Jackie
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:
>>>> Hi list members,
>>>>
>>>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to
>>> that
>>> of
>>>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the 
>>>> country
>>> they
>>>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather
>>> quickly
>>> and
>>>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their
>>> country
>>> or
>>>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much 
>>>> advancement.
>>>>
>>>> This experience relates well to research done among Native American
>>> tribes
>>>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
>>> literacy
>>>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those 
>>>> who
>>> tried
>>>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in 
>>>> their
>>> own
>>>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. 
>>>> The concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish 
>>>> were much
>>> easier
>>>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps 
>>>> this
>>> is
>>>> something deserving more research.
>>>>
>>>> Tina
>>>> Tina Luffman
>>>> Coordinator, Developmental Education Verde Valley Campus
>>>> 928-634-6544
>>>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>>>
>>>> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>>>>
>>>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org> Sent by: 
>>>> assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or

>>>> Comments?!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
>>>> Warning: (not named).
>>>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for
>>> more
>>>> information.
>>>>
>>>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about 
>>>> three
>>> years)
>>>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
>>> particularly if
>>>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, 
>>>> if
>>> at
>>>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first 
>>>> language. I
>>> would
>>>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a
>>> student
>>>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed 
>>>> because
>>> he/she
>>>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is
>>> try
>>> to
>>>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
>>> concept
>>>> in a second language.
>>>>
>>>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't
>>> play
>>> a
>>>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers 
>>>> (transitioned
>>> from
>>>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
>>> classes).
>>>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow 
>>>> advancement.
>>> It's
>>>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
>>> teachers.
>>>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is
>>> encouraging
>>> me
>>>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think
>>> we're
>>>> making some progress.
>>>>
>>>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>
>>>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
>>>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your

>>>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was 
>>>> very curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of 
>>>> issues
>>> that
>>> Dr.
>>>> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of 
>>>> intensity
>>> of
>>>> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few 
>>>> opportunities
>>> for
>>>> professional development.
>>>>
>>>> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>>> student
>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
>>>>
>>>> Please post your questions and comments now.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Marie Cora
>>>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marie Cora
>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator 
>>>> <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>>> intended
>>>> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>>> addressed.
>>>> If you have received this email in error please notify the system
>>> manager.
>>>> This message contains confidential information and is intended only
>>> for
>>> the
>>>> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not

>>>> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
>>>> <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
>>>> <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>> Assessment mailing list
>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
>>> <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu 
>>> <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>> Assessment mailing list
>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>
>
>
> --
> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Professor, Education Department
> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture Coordinator, 
> Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/ Bilingual 
> Education University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC) 1000 Hilltop

> Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
> email: crandall at umbc.edu
> www.umbc.edu/llc/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to forrest at crosslink.net
>
>

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor and Director
Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program Director, Peace Corps
Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education University of Maryland
Baltimore County 1000 Hilltop Circle Baltimore, MD 21250
tel:  410-455-2313
fax: 410-455-8947
eml: crandall at umbc.edu




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From taklein at austin.rr.com  Fri Feb  8 10:37:06 2008
From: taklein at austin.rr.com (Ted Klein)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 09:37:06 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1178] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No
	Questionsor	Comments?!
References: <A1FACE81B7C82147B9CE6822E2D4A701022A24ED@MCMAIL2.mcnte.mc.cc.md.us><571084.73827.qm@web54003.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<002401c869f6$781c6fe0$68554fa0$@net>
Message-ID: <00c001c86a68$75e58be0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>

Mary Jane,

If you want your students to get a better grasp on grammatical terminology I strongly recommend "Gram?tica Espa?ola para Estudiantes de Ingl?s" by Anna I Levenson. It not only gives the terminology in both English and Spanish, it gives examples from both languages. It is published by Olivia and Hill Press  www.oliviahill.com  Most Spanish-speaking students that I have had, inlcluding some university graduates, have never studied the grammar of their own language. They also have a book, "English Grammar for Students of Spanish," which is quite useful for ESL teachers who need a comparison of the two languages, particularly for problem analysis. They have similar materials for other languages that all look good. They are also quite readable. One doesn't need a docturate in linguistics to read them!

By the way. I teach all of the major verb tenses at one time and find that a holistic view is better than one or two tenses at a time. This even works for me at lower levels. My wife, who loves grammar, thinks I'm crazy. That's O.K.


Ted
www.tedklein-ESL.com 


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Forrest Chisman 
  To: 'The Assessment Discussion List' 
  Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 8:00 PM
  Subject: [Assessment 1168] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questionsor Comments?!


  Mary Jane,

   

  Thanks for this input. I gather that all of your classes mix students with different levels of higher education. Is that right? If so, how do you manage to find the time (or manage the class) so that you can provide this extra help to students with low levels of prior education? About how many hours/week do your classes meet? Also, I think we'd all like to hear some examples of the cooperation and teamwork you mention, and its results. This seems to be an important, but too little documented theme.

   

  Forrest   

   

  From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Mary Jane Jerde
  Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:31 PM
  To: The Assessment Discussion List; Jodi Crandall
  Subject: [Assessment 1164] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!

   

  I was going to write a very similar message based on my experience working under Barbara Denman at the erstwhile refugee program in Prince George's County, Maryland. 

  Now that I work in a community college with ESL classes that span the lowest level ESL and academic experience to the higher levels of college credit classes, my experience has grown. The principles of both cooperation and teamwork in learning and separation by level still hold true. Students benefit from knowing that they need to help each other. It's part of our culture, surprise, surprise. The institution where I work has six levels of class for the various language skills, so there's lots of separation by level. 

  What I have found myself doing with high beginning students and intermediates with less education in their home countries is preparing them for the grammatical terms that will come their way if they continue to take ESL classes. I also work diligently with them to have a firm grasp of basic English grammar, especially verbs. This will help them at work or if they decide to begin ABE classes, where the grammar focus is not normally on their kind of grammar issues. 

  Mary Jane Jerde
  ESL Instructor
  Howard Community College

  "Sadan, Noa" <Noa.Sadan at montgomerycollege.edu> wrote:

  Years ago, the Montgomery County Refugee Training Program (Montgomery
  College, Silver Spring, MD)had highly educated people with no English,
  in class with literacy level students. It was certainly difficult
  meeting the needs of all students, but in this intensive 20-hours/week
  program, a tremendous mutual respect was fostered between the groups.
  Typically, the highly educated students raced ahead with reading and
  writing, while the literacy students sped ahead with oral language. The
  Somali mother of nine would say to the Russian engineer, "I wish I could
  read and write like you!", while the Russian woman would reply, "I wish
  I could speak like you."

  All this ended with a slightly different solution. The Refugee Center,
  then under the direction of Donna Kinerney, divided that school day into
  separate Listening,Reading and "Homeroom" classes. Homerooom took in all
  skills, plus the introduction to the American workplace. This model was
  in place when we began to get World English speakers who were not
  literate. It provided a solution in which they could study in a
  literacy-level reading/writing class, and interact in a higher level
  Listening and Homeroom class. 

  -----Original Message-----
  From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
  On Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
  Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM
  To: The Assessment Discussion List
  Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
  Comments?!

  Jackie and Forrest,

  I think most large programs separate literacy level students from others
  who are at a beginning level. I know that back in the 1980s when there
  were large refugee ESL programs, several community colleges created
  parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels and even into intermediate
  levels, with one set of classes for students with limited literacy or
  prior schooling and another for more educated students. The reason was
  that the students with less education made slower progress. Some of
  this is undoubtedly due to the way in which we teach English (requiring
  literacy), but it is also because students need to become accustomed to
  attending classes, learning to hold and use a pen or pencil, and a wide
  range of basic skills that come with being a student in a class.

  Those of you who have separate classes for those who need literacy:
  Can
  you tell us what kind of classes or program you provide?

  Those who teach both literacy and more educated learners in the same
  class: Can you let us know how you manage? What are some ways in which
  you accommodate both sets of needs?

  Jodi
  > Forrest,
  > I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy 
  > background and those without. These two groups have such different 
  > needs. Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to 
  > meet the needs of either group well and I find that often the stronger

  > students dominate the class, and their drive push the teacher forward.

  > If the instructor does not keep up with the students who are learning 
  > at a faster rate, they often become frustrated and leave or mentally 
  > check out. However, if the instructor keeps up with those students, 
  > the others are unable to keep up and they get frustrated.
  > I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless

  > of how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.
  > Jackie
  >
  >
  > On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman wrote:
  >>
  >> To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor 
  >> in student performance:
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more 
  >> highly educated students do better in terms of persistence, learning

  >> gains, and transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect 
  >> this.
  >> Regrettably
  >> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior 
  >> education makes, because too few programs track the level of prior 
  >> education of their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of

  >> you do this? That is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference 
  >> level of prior education makes?
  >> Or
  >> any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior education

  >> that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are completely 
  >> illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high school 
  >> graduates, college graduates, etc. -- or is level of prior education

  >> pretty much of a continuum?
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between 
  >> highly educated students and those with less prior education? 
  >> Presumably students with very low levels of education are more likely

  >> end up in the lower level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning 
  >> levels) why are (almost by
  >> definition) in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes

  >> math.
  >> Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at 
  >> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it

  >> be desirable to place less highly educated students in separate 
  >> classes from those with more education and adjust the 
  >> curriculum/support systems for them accordingly? Some programs have 
  >> tried "native language literacy" or the Spanish GED. What has been 
  >> the experience of any of you with these approaches? Any other ideas? 
  >> IS there an adult ESL equivalent of "bi-lingual education" that 
  >> should be tried?
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the

  >> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of 
  >> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large

  >> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that 
  >> means), ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very 
  >> little education in their native countries and too little money to 
  >> serve them. So anyone who has any ideas about how to bridge this 
  >> "education gap" could help us a lot by posting ideas about how to 
  >> close it on this discussion list.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> Forrest Chisman
  >>
  >> Vice President
  >>
  >> CAAL
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> *From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
  >> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
  >> *On
  >> Behalf Of *Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
  >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
  >> *To:* The Assessment Discussion List
  >> *Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No 
  >> Questions or Comments?!
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> Hi Jackie,
  >>
  >> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what 
  >> my former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual 
  >> education in the K-12 school system.
  >>
  >> Tina
  >>
  >> Tina Luffman
  >> Coordinator, Developmental Education
  >> Verde Valley Campus
  >> 928-634-6544
  >> tina_luffman at yc.edu
  >>
  >> *"Jackie Coelho" * Sent by: 
  >> assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
  >>
  >> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM
  >>
  >> Please respond to
  >> The Assessment Discussion List 
  >>
  >> To
  >>
  >> "The Assessment Discussion List" 
  >>
  >> cc
  >>
  >> Subject
  >>
  >> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or 
  >> Comments?!
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> Hi Tina,
  >>
  >> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement 
  >> in favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented

  >> in the best way. For many years people have known that a good 
  >> foundation in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning

  >> in a second or third language.
  >>
  >> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not 
  >> written.
  >>
  >> Jackie
  >>
  >>
  >> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu wrote:
  >> > Hi list members,
  >> >
  >> > My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to
  >> that
  >> of
  >> > Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the 
  >> > country
  >> they
  >> > came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather
  >> quickly
  >> and
  >> > get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their
  >> country
  >> or
  >> > lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much 
  >> > advancement.
  >> >
  >> > This experience relates well to research done among Native American
  >> tribes
  >> > teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
  >> literacy
  >> > skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those 
  >> > who
  >> tried
  >> > to learn literacy skills in English without that background in 
  >> > their
  >> own
  >> > tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. 
  >> > The concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish 
  >> > were much
  >> easier
  >> > to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps 
  >> > this
  >> is
  >> > something deserving more research.
  >> >
  >> > Tina
  >> > Tina Luffman
  >> > Coordinator, Developmental Education Verde Valley Campus
  >> > 928-634-6544
  >> > tina_luffman at yc.edu
  >> >
  >> > -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
  >> >
  >> > To: "The Assessment Discussion List" 
  >> > From: "Gail Burnett" Sent by: 
  >> > assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
  >> > Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
  >> > Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or

  >> > Comments?!
  >> >
  >> >
  >> > Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
  >> > Warning: (not named).
  >> > Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for
  >> more
  >> > information.
  >> >
  >> > In our small adult education program, my experience (just about 
  >> > three
  >> years)
  >> > is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
  >> particularly if
  >> > they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, 
  >> > if
  >> at
  >> > all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first 
  >> > language. I
  >> would
  >> > say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a
  >> student
  >> > who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed 
  >> > because
  >> he/she
  >> > is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is
  >> try
  >> to
  >> > get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
  >> concept
  >> > in a second language.
  >> >
  >> > This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't
  >> play
  >> a
  >> > part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers 
  >> > (transitioned
  >> from
  >> > another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
  >> classes).
  >> > My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow
  advancement.
  >> It's
  >> > hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
  >> teachers.
  >> > The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is
  >> encouraging
  >> me
  >> > to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think
  >> we're
  >> > making some progress.
  >> >
  >> > Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
  >> >
  >> > ________________________________
  >> >
  >> > From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
  >> > Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
  >> > To: Assessment at nifl.gov
  >> > Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
  >> >
  >> >
  >> > Hello everyone,
  >> >
  >> > I'm so surprised! No one has anything to comment on regarding your

  >> > program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? I was 
  >> > very curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of 
  >> > issues
  >> that
  >> Dr.
  >> > Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research: a lack of 
  >> > intensity
  >> of
  >> > instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few 
  >> > opportunities
  >> for
  >> > professional development.
  >> >
  >> > What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
  >> student
  >> > from advancing? What do you try to do about that?
  >> >
  >> > Please post your questions and comments now.
  >> >
  >> > Thanks!
  >> >
  >> > Marie Cora
  >> > Assessment Discussion List Moderator
  >> >
  >> >
  >> > Marie Cora
  >> > marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
  >> > 
  >> > NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator 
  >> > 
  >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
  >> >
  >> >
  >> > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
  >> intended
  >> > solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
  >> addressed.
  >> > If you have received this email in error please notify the system
  >> manager.
  >> > This message contains confidential information and is intended only
  >> for
  >> the
  >> > individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not

  >> > disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
  >> > -------------------------------
  >> > National Institute for Literacy
  >> > Assessment mailing list
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  >> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
  >> > 
  >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
  >> > Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
  >> >
  >> >
  >> > -------------------------------
  >> > National Institute for Literacy
  >> > Assessment mailing list
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  >> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
  >> > 
  >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
  >> > Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
  >> >
  >> >
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  >> National Institute for Literacy
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  > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
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  > Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
  >


  --
  JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
  Professor, Education Department
  Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture Coordinator,
  Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
  University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC) 1000 Hilltop Circle,
  Baltimore, MD 21250
  ph: 410-455-2313/2376 fax: 410-455-8947/1880
  email: crandall at umbc.edu
  www.umbc.edu/llc/
  www.umbc.edu/esol/
  www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html



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From forrest at crosslink.net  Fri Feb  8 10:42:24 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 10:42:24 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1179] Re: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B3C@exchr.raritanval.edu>
References: <CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B2E@exchr.raritanval.edu>	<007201c86a04$26b41a50$741c4ef0$@net>
	<CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B3C@exchr.raritanval.edu>
Message-ID: <001f01c86a69$364ee6b0$a2ecb410$@net>

Kevin,

 

Thanks for the explanation. I find it VERY useful. It's a very interesting
model. I'm not surprised that your students are motivated for college,
because they've signed up for a college prep track! What worries me are the
limited aspirations of many lower level ESL students who may have college
potential. 

 

I understand now why you don't have the resources to operate a more
comprehensive program. I've heard an increasing number of stories about
areas were the LEA runs the federal/state  adult education ESL grant program
and has asked the local college to take it over (because the LEA has
concluded it's an "adult" program). Have there been any rumblings of that in
your area?

 

Best of luck in your good work.

 

Forrest    

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 9:42 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List; The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1174] Re: (no subject)

 

I believe we do have a hard time getting enough students fed into our
program and with the appropriate background to succeed if they do come to
us. It is a real problem. There are some workplace ESL programs which are
run through our Corporate and Continuing Education Office, but those
students rarely, if ever, come to us. And they serve the employees of
specific companies as opposed to the community at large. 

 

Our ESL program is within an academic department in the college
(Communication and Languages) and so is run like every other. ESL students
pay the same tuition and fees as all other students at the college. We do
not receive special government funding beyond what the state and counties
provide for the college as a whole as a part of our yearly budget.

 

Finances are probably a big reason why we are getting fewer students at the
low levels. Community programs are free or low cost; although in the scheme
of higher education, the community college is less expensive, it may still
be out of reach of many students. 

 

In terms of having a more comprehensive program, we are limited by a small
staff, and the unlikelihood of being able to expand given college budgeting
restraints. In addition, our three full-time faculty members (including
myself) not only teach 15 credit hours per semester but also do the
administrative work required. We do advising, scheduling, and the many other
tasks associate with keeping the program afloat. The only "official"
administrative support for the program is through the 3 hours of overload I
receive to serve as Adjunct Coordinator. 

 

The belief that they can attend college does not seem to be a problem with
our population although I can certainly see that it could be. A growing
problem for us (and many around the country) is the disconnect between high
schools and colleges in terms of student preparation. Either the high
schools do not think the students are college-bound and so don't bother to
give them a college-prep course of study, or there is simply a growing gap
between the expectations of each. Additionally, students seem to think that
a high school diploma equates to college readiness.

 

We do our best to advise students, but we don't always have enough time -
and as professors primarily - may not know ourselves what all of the options
for students are. 

 

Kevin 

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 10:38 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1172] Re: (no subject)

Dear Kevin,

 

Many thanks for providing all of us with a profile of your program. Seeing
the variety of college program goals and designs is extremely valuable in
stimulating ideas about how to do a better job in delivering ESL.

 

Personally, I think that it is perfectly valid for colleges to elect to
offer solely pre-academic ESL at the non-credit level. But it does prompt
the concern about whether other programs in the college's service area are
providing non-academic ESL to large enough numbers of students and at a high
enough quality to "feed" the college program - as well as how well their
efforts articulate with yours. I wonder whether this troubles you, and if so
whether/how you have addressed the issue.  Frankly, I think one reason why
many colleges offer comprehensive ESL programs is that they would prefer to
"make" pre-academic students themselves, rather than rely on others to do
it. Another reason, of course, if that they may not be eligible for
federal/state grant money unless they offer comprehensive programs. Does
your college receive these funds to support its pre-academic program? If
not, how is it supported financially?

 

I heartily agree that helping students set realistic goals and understand
their options is essential. I believe, however, that encouraging students to
expand their goals as they succeed is also essential. For example, many
immigrants come from countries where going to college is the privilege of
very few, and thus may consider that an unrealistic goal  unless they are
encouraged to take the steps necessary (often one step at a time). The
problem seems to be that it is hard for most programs to find the resources
to provide very much guidance of any of these kinds to most students. I
wonder if anyone has any solutions to THAT issue. 

 

In any event, many thanks for fleshing out an interesting model.  

 

Forrest     

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:19 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1148] (no subject)

 

Hi All,

 

I have been reading most of the discussion comments and wanted to address a
few issues. First, however, I'll give a summary of our program. 

 

I teach ESL at Raritan Valley Community College in New Jersey. Our program
serves approximately 350 students from diverse language backgrounds. Our
program offers two pre-academic levels of all skills ESL instruction (a six
hour per week non-credit class). In addition, we have 5 levels of academic
ESL preparation divided into three courses - Reading/Writing, Grammar, and
Speaking/Listening). Our highest level Reading/Writing course gives
successful students 6 elective credits that count towards RVCC graduation,
but those credits do not transfer. Our semesters are 15 weeks. If a student
misses 20% of any class, the instructor may withdraw that student (they are
not, however, obliged to withdraw these students). At the moment, the late
enrollment policy is that students may register for a course prior to the
second week of class but not thereafter. Research, of course, indicates that
students who begin a class late have a much higher rate of failure than
those who begin on time. 

 

In our program, we have three full-time faculty and approximately 16-18
adjuncts. 

 

We have focused our program on academic prep ESL because we are a small
program with limited resources, and we have a very difficult time finding
qualified adjuncts. Also, a significant majority of our students have
signalled their intention to obtain a college degree. Moreover, there are
community programs that offer basic English skills although there is often a
long waiting list to obtain the services. In other issues, we use the
Accuplacer ESL test for placement and have in-house standardized tests at
the end of each level of grammar and reading/writing

 

Within our classes, highly educated non-native speakers usually progress
much more quickly. One of the most challenging groups is students who
graduated from local high schools but still have inadequate English skills -
and not infrequently, weak academic skills in general. One of the strategies
that I would personally wish for is real communication between K-12 and
community colleges so that students get the language skills they need before
they enter college. I understand that there is great pressure to move
students out of ESL in many school districts, but ultimately, it does a huge
disservice both financially and in terms of motivation to students whose
skills remain more BICS than CALP. 

 

I agree with those who suggest that first language literacy issues should be
addressed before students enter ESL. However, it becomes complicated to find
funding and support for such efforts. In my experience, students with low
level literacy skills become frustrated and are not ultimately successful -
probably by any definition. I am uncomfortable with the idea that they are
spending hard-earned money when the chances for success in ESL are minimal.
We advise students that the program is academically-oriented; often they
have little understanding of what that means. 

 

I do not agree with the suggestion that the bar be lowered so that students
with low-intermediate skills be allowed in credit classes (at least at my
college). Historically, other faculty have little experience handling
language issues and are very unhappy when students cannot read, write and
converse at an appropriate level of English. They end up feeling helpless.
Students may pass classes; however, I suspect that instructors do not want
to deal with the challenges and so turn a blind eye and let them through.
Recently, there has been a problem in the nursing department with non-native
English speaking students not passing board exams because they enter the
college from other programs and circumvent ESL with us. They have trouble
reading and answering questions on the exam. This is a significant problem
because nursing programs are judged in terms of the success of their
students on these standardized exams. 

 

I think the measure of success should be based on a realistic assessment of
student goals combined with a real-life discussion of the possibilities and
limitations. Ideally, students would have incremental goals so that success
could build. If the goals for students with low literacy levels are not
carefully discussed and planned, then they will likely encounter more
failure than success because their expectaions will be unrealistic. The more
we have the opportunity to talk to students, the more likely it is that they
can develop short-term goals that are within their reach. Unfortunately, we
have no control over the myriad of complications that accrue in their every
day lives. 

 

Apologies for the length.

 

Kevin Hinkle, Ph.D.

Assistant Professor of ESL/Adjunct Coordinator

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From jschneider at eicc.edu  Fri Feb  8 10:47:49 2008
From: jschneider at eicc.edu (Schneider, Jim)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 09:47:49 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1180] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
	orComments?!
In-Reply-To: <006401c86a61$b871d920$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
Message-ID: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870AD7F32B@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>

I feel compelled to put my two cents in on the Spanish GED. 
 
My experience is that both Andres and Ted have valid points. Here in Eastern Iowa, there are few bilingual employers. Employers that are bilingual rarely pay the best wages and are typically short of employees if there are any signs of INS.  
 
On the other hand, many of the students who have completed the Spanish GED are already employed, and have fairly decent English skills, but are short on time. Attaining the GED provides them the opportunity for advancement at work and/or access to postsecondary education/training. 
 
It has been excruciating watch the one or two who insist on the GED in English get through the Literature and Writing portions of the test. 
 
And the difficulty of the new Spanish GED tests are such that it is a rare student who can pass it. The old Spanish GED was attainable for most learners who had a 6-8th grade education. We have found that it is virtually impossible for anyone with less than a 10-11 grade education By simply translating the English test into Spanish and then utilizing the standard scores/norms of the English test, students who have passed it, have EARNED their GED. 
 
Jim S.  

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Ted Klein
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 8:49 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1175] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions orComments?!


Andres,
 
I'm not too sure that some of your perspectives haven't been somewhat altered by living in El Paso. I say that with total respect for El Paso and for your answer. Let me explain. First, I've lived in Texas most of my life, except for some time overseas. I know just about all of our border towns, from El Paso to Brownsville. I've also lived in nine countries outside of the United States and traveled perhaps in twenty more. AXIOM: All over the world, border towns are different  from other towns. Persons, regardless of ancestry,  who live in border towns anywhere tend to be bicultural and bilingual. They also tend to identify with each other on close levels as being a well-made "tossed salad." If most or all of your students plan to stay in El Paso for the rest of their lives, I totally agree with what you say. However, if they want to go to cities north of the border area; Dallas, Ft. Worth, Austin, Houston, Waco, or out of state, then the picture changes. I am almost as comfortable in Spanish as I am in English and have dealt with persons from every country in Latin America comfortably and successfully, as well as Spain. However, I do not represent anything close to a majority, particularly when it comes to having a business. When persons go for job interviews in non-border towns, being truly bilingual is a great asset and can even result in higher pay and better opportunities. That is true for Spanish speakers and English speakers. However, most of your persons who have had to take the GED in Spanish are not truly bilingual. That's a fact and when they go for a job interview, the human resources person doesn't need paperwork to know that there may be communication problems with clients and on the telephone. The fact is that life is short. However it is long enough for persons to spend a couple of more years acquiring English if it gives them more options in life. Again, if they plan to spend their lives in a border town, this may not be a problem at all. 
 
Three years ago, my wife and I and one of our colleagues, took an ESL teaching gig at a cookie factory in Austin. Quite a few of their employees did not speak English and the company wanted to fix that situation. There were 27 persons who had volunteered to take English classes at work, maybe six hours a week. The first problem was how to determine divisions of 27 students among three teachers. I got out a brief "test" that I had used to determine readiness for the ALCPT tests in the past.
 
Here is a copy:
 

ORAL INTERVIEW QUESTIONS TO DETERMINE ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE

 

                                                      Block 2                 Ted Klein

 

Questions marked with an asterisk * are mandatory. Of the remaining questions, ten should be selected at random. Speech of the interviewer will be at normal speed and clarity, with NO exaggeration.

 

1. What is your name please?* -----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

2. Where are you from?* -------

 

3. What part of XXXXXXX are you from?-------

 

4. What is your native language? -------

 

5. How long have you been in America? -------

 

6. Do you read English?* -------

 

7. Did you study English in your country? -------

 

8. How long did you study English? -------

 

9. Are you enjoying the U.S.A? -------

 

10. What do you like here? -------

 

11. Is there anything that you don't like? -------

 

12. Have you studied any other languages besides English? -------

 

13. Why do you want to learn English? -------

 

14. How many years of education have you had? -------

 

15. Do you have any hobbies? What are they? -------

 

16. Do you have any American friends to practice English with? -------

 

17. Do you work?  Where? -------

 

18. What are your plans for the future? -------

 

19. Why did you come to America? -------

 

20. Do you have any questions for me? -------

 

 

Mark responses: 0 no answer.   0+ telegraphic/very simple response. 

1 simple, but complete response.  1+ functional and clear response.

2   somewhat elaborate, fairly clear and mostly grammatical response.

 

Interviewees with ten or more answers in the 1+ to 2 range should be ready to take a written

proficiency test of listening and reading skills. Non-readers are excluded. (ref: Ques. 6)

 
The three of us interviewed the 27 candidates together. 19 out of the 27 were not able to answer the second question: e.g. (Teacher) Where are you from?
(Candidate) ?Mande?  (Teacher) Where are you from? ?Como?  (Teacher) Are you from Mexico? (Candidate) M?xico, "jes." One answered, "M?xico, no, Peru s?."
 
The 8 students who were able to answer that question and maybe four or five more questions were assigned to an "advanced class." The others were split into two groups. What happened here? Many of these persons had lived in Austin for some time. Some for up to ten years. Most had families. The families naturally used Spanish at home, even their children who spoke English at school. They had Spanish-speaking supervisors. They watched television in Spanish. They ate at Mexican restaurants. They went to Spanish-speaking doctors. 95% of their friends were Hispanic. In plain language, if they wanted to stay at the cookie factory, making cookies, they didn't need English, although the company preferred that they know English for upward mobility. This program went on for three or four months.The company merged and our program ended. We did not use Spanish in class. In early training I use materials that I developed based on some of the old "direct methods;" picture flashcards, Cuisenaire rods, etc. and we also concentrated strongly on English sounds, particularly listening and identification. The program went surprisingly well and many of the students were very disappointed when it ended. They had already found some new places to go and some were acquiring English-speaking friends.
 
So what is the good news? Several of our former students have entered the Austin Community College AE program and are doing well. One of them is in my class now. She has a child and often works at night at the cookie factory. Sometimes she comes in looking very tired, but she's surviving. She wants to be a Certified Nursing Assistant. She'll make it! She plans to take the GED in English next year and enter the Nursing Program at ACC. Most of her future patients will not be bilingual and she will be ready for them. 
 
That's about it.
 
Ted  
www.tedklein-ESL.com
 
----- Original Message ----- 

	From: andresmuro at aol.com 
	To: assessment at nifl.gov 
	Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 12:02 PM
	Subject: [Assessment 1153] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!

	Ted:
	
	How would the employer know the language that Julian took the GED in?
	In most states the certificate does not tell you the Language. Texas is one of the few states that tells you the language. However, it is so hard to find that most people wouldn't even know. I have a hard time finding the language reference even though I have seen millions of certificates. Fact is most employers don't even know that people can take the GED in anything other than English, don't ask and do not scrutinize certificates to figure out scores, language, etc. A few might, but the majority don't. For low literacy Spanish speakers it may take them a couple of years to be ready to take the GED in Spanish. It make take them 2 more years to be ready for the English GED. Would you rather hold them two more years. They can take the GED in Spanish and continue to study English. Once they have sufficient English, they can decide if they want to take it in English or to move on to other things.
	
	Andres
	


	-----Original Message-----
	From: Ted Klein <taklein at austin.rr.com>
	To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
	Sent: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 6:58 am
	Subject: [Assessment 1150] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!
	
	
	Jodi and Andres,
	 
	There is one very real problem with taking the GED in Spanish that I'm aware of. If you have two immigrants, Roberto and Ju?n, and they both apply for the same job and if Ju?n took the GED in Spanish and Roberto took it in English, guess who gets the job?
	Yes, life isn't fair, but most U.S. businesses prefer persons who have gone "all the way" with English. My students and I have discussed this and they have seen or know of this situation with their friends and family members. That is why many AE students remain longer in our ESL classes. Of course in many border towns, this may not be as important since many of the employers are Hispanic or are native speakers of English who are functional in Spanish. However, many customers of the businesses will need to use English. 
	 
	In my current class in Austin, Texas with eleven students, five different languages are spoken. Should we offer the GED in Arabic, Chinese, Korean, and Juba as well as Spanish?
	 
	 
	Ted
	www.tedklein-ESL.com 
	 
	 
	 
	----- Original Message ----- 

		From: andresmuro at aol.com 
		To: crandall at umbc.edu ; assessment at nifl.gov 
		Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 5:21 PM
		Subject: [Assessment 1146] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!

		Jodi:
		
		The credit ESL program in the college is very academic. However it provides students with financial aid and other goodies. We feel that the students will not do well in a credit academic ESL program until they have a level comparable to GED in their native language. Also, a GED certificate is a way to demonstrate ability to benefit to qualify for financial aid. Those students who get into the credit ESL program without native language literacy don't do well. 
		
		Students can attend other ESL classes in the community while they are attending our classes. We stopped providing ESL because of limited funding to provide what we would consider meaningful ESL. Also, our Spanish GED program is fairly intensive and our students would not have enough time to attend an additional program. We have a few students who may be attending our classes and an ESL class concurrently. Those are a minority
		
		The truth is that we started as an ESL literacy program many years ago. There was virtually no funding for  literacy ESL unless it  had all kind of testing requirements. Also, it is very hard to train teachers to be really good at ESL. The system that encourages large number of untrained part timers prevents this from happening. 
		
		I know that a lot of people in these listservs claim exemplary service and illustrate  with examples of what they have done. I don't doubt that  their claims are 100% true. However,  we are in the minority. If I could get you and Heide and Elsa and Andy Nash and Leonore and Deborah Schwartz, and Anson Green and Federico and others to be my ESL teachers, I would have the best program in the world. However, the fact is that in addition to the barriers that ESL students face in their daily lives, plus the bureaucratic and assessment barriers that the system creates for teachers and students, plus the difficulty hiring and retaining highly qualified ESL staff makes it very difficult to have a successful ESL program. 
		
		I feel that until we get rid of WIA/NRS it will be tough to create good stuff in a systematic way. 
		
		Andres
		
		
		


		-----Original Message-----
		From: JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu>
		To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
		Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 1:27 pm
		Subject: [Assessment 1141] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!
		
		
		Andres,
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		It is great that you provide Spanish language literacy and GED classes for
		
		
		
		your students.  There's no question that native language literacy
		
		
		
		contributes not just to the development of the first language, but also to
		
		
		
		English language development when students take oral ESL classes.  There
		
		
		
		is some research in this area by Michele Burtoff with Haitians in the U.S.
		
		
		
		and there is a lot of research (see especially research by David Ramirez
		
		
		
		which compares children who had 6, 3 or no years of bilingual education)
		
		
		
		that shows that providing bilingual education not only has all the
		
		
		
		benefits that would be expected, but students also achieve in English as
		
		
		
		well or better than those who only had instruction in English.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		We also found that Spanish GED classes had large numbers of students at
		
		
		
		the colleges, since students who take the GED in Spanish are able to
		
		
		
		bypass the need for extensive ESL just to get this credential.  They might
		
		
		
		want to take ESL as well, but the desire for the GED is often for
		
		
		
		work-related reasons.  I'm not clear on why you ask students to wait until
		
		
		
		after they have passed the GED to take ESL classes.  Can you tell us a
		
		
		
		little more about that?
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		Of course not all students who enroll in adult ESL are Spanish speakers
		
		
		
		and there may not be enough who speak any language to provide literacy
		
		
		
		classes for them in their own language, but programs might try to partner
		
		
		
		with immigrant or refugee-related community-based organizations which
		
		
		
		could reach more students and also identify someone to provide the
		
		
		
		instruction.  Still, there will  be students who will not be able to take
		
		
		
		literacy classes in their own languages and for them, a separate ESL
		
		
		
		literacy class seems to be the best option.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		It would be great to hear from others about their experiences both with
		
		
		
		first language (Spanish and other languages) literacy classes, Spanish GED
		
		
		
		classes, and literacy ESL classes.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		How do you place students in your literacy classes?  Do you use a
		
		
		
		standardized test or do you have informal ways of determining if someone
		
		
		
		would be better served in a literacy ESL class?
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		Jodi
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>  Problem is that in many ESL people are placed in ESL classes based on an
		
		
		
		> English placement multiple choice test. A student with advanced education
		
		
		
		> in L1 and one with little education in L1 may know very little English
		
		
		
		> and they may both be placed in the same level. The student with advance
		
		
		
		> education will progress much faster than the one with little education.
		
		
		
		> The advanced L1 student will understand concepts like sentence,
		
		
		
		> paragraph, verb, subject, direct object, adjective, composition and essay
		
		
		
		> readily. The one with with little education will need to understand these
		
		
		
		> concepts. It takes a while for people to master these concepts. A highly
		
		
		
		> educated L2? learner will likely progress faster academically in a second
		
		
		
		> language than a fluent native speaker of that? language with limited
		
		
		
		> academic education, for the same reason. This is observed regularly in
		
		
		
		> universities all over the US. highly educated foreign students who
		
		
		
		> acquired English as L2 recently will do better than their Eng
		
		
		
		>  lish speaking counterparts in academic tasks in English. Jim Cummins has
		
		
		
		> articulated this clearly with his BICS and CALPS.
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> In our program at El Paso Community College we have found evidence of
		
		
		
		> this. We stopped doing literacy ESL a while back for this reason. The
		
		
		
		> college has an academic ESL program. Instead of doing ESL literacy we
		
		
		
		> started offering Spanish Literacy and GED many years ago since the vast
		
		
		
		> majority of our students are Spanish speakers. Once our students acquire
		
		
		
		> their Spanish GED they transition into the ESL program and do better than
		
		
		
		> those students who don't have L1 academic skills. Even if takes them a
		
		
		
		> while to acquire the L1 literacy, they will do better. Those with no L1
		
		
		
		> literacy often stay in ESL forever and they drop out, start again in
		
		
		
		> another program, drop out and continue the same pattern. I think that this
		
		
		
		> happens because of the mixture of academically ready students and those
		
		
		
		> that are not ready, since most ESL programs focus on traditional
		
		
		
		> academics. For L1 low literacy students to be able to progress in L2 there
		
		
		
		> has to be a program specifically designed for them that teache
		
		
		
		>  s skills in L2 in new and innovative ways without interference from
		
		
		
		> academically skilled L1 students. Right now we don't have a system that
		
		
		
		> systematically does this, and the WIA/NRS system prevents this form
		
		
		
		> happening.
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> Hope that this makes sense,
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> Andres
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> -----Original Message-----
		
		
		
		> From: Jackie Coelho <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>
		
		
		
		> To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
		
		
		
		> Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 5:01 am
		
		
		
		> Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
		
		
		
		> Comments?!
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
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		> Forrest,
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> ?? I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy
		
		
		
		> background and those without. These two groups have such different needs.
		
		
		
		> Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs
		
		
		
		> of either group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate
		
		
		
		> the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor
		
		
		
		> does not keep up with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they
		
		
		
		> often become frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the
		
		
		
		> instructor keeps up with those students, the others are unable to keep up
		
		
		
		> and they get frustrated.
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> ? I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of
		
		
		
		> how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> Jackie
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> ?
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in
		
		
		
		> student performance:
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> ?
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly
		
		
		
		> educated students do better in terms of ?persistence, learning gains, and
		
		
		
		> transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably
		
		
		
		> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education
		
		
		
		> makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of
		
		
		
		> their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That
		
		
		
		> is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education
		
		
		
		> makes? Or any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior
		
		
		
		> education that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are
		
		
		
		> completely illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high
		
		
		
		> school graduates, college graduates, etc. -- ?or is level of prior
		
		
		
		> education pretty much of a continuum?
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> ?
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly
		
		
		
		> educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably students
		
		
		
		> with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower
		
		
		
		> level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by
		
		
		
		> definition) ?in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes
		
		
		
		> math. Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at
		
		
		
		> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be
		
		
		
		> desirable to place less highly educated students in separate classes from
		
		
		
		> those with more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for
		
		
		
		> them accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or
		
		
		
		> the Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these
		
		
		
		> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of
		
		
		
		> "bi-lingual education" that should be tried?
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> ?
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the
		
		
		
		> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of
		
		
		
		> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large
		
		
		
		> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means),
		
		
		
		> ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very little education
		
		
		
		> in their native countries and too little money to serve them. ?So anyone
		
		
		
		> who has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a
		
		
		
		> lot by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> ?
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> Forrest Chisman
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> Vice President
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> CAAL
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> ?
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> ??
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> ?
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov <mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov?> ] On
		
		
		
		> Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
		
		
		
		> To: The Assessment Discussion List
		
		
		
		> Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
		
		
		
		> Comments?!
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> ?
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> Hi Jackie,
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my
		
		
		
		> former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual education
		
		
		
		> in the K-12 school system.
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> Tina
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> Tina Luffman
		
		
		
		> Coordinator, Developmental Education
		
		
		
		> Verde Valley Campus
		
		
		
		> 928-634-6544
		
		
		
		> tina_luffman at yc.edu
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
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		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> "Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
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		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> Please respond to
		
		
		
		> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
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		> To
		
		
		
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		> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
		
		
		
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		> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or ? ? ?
		
		
		
		> ?Comments?!
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
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		> Hi Tina,
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in
		
		
		
		> favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation
		
		
		
		> in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second
		
		
		
		> or third language.
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not
		
		
		
		> written.
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> Jackie
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>> Hi list members,
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to that
		
		
		
		>> of
		
		
		
		>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country
		
		
		
		>> they
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather quickly
		
		
		
		>> and
		
		
		
		>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their country
		
		
		
		>> or
		
		
		
		>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>> advancement.
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		>> This experience relates well to research done among Native American
		
		
		
		>> tribes
		
		
		
		>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
		
		
		
		>> literacy
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who
		
		
		
		>> tried
		
		
		
		>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their own
		
		
		
		>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much
		
		
		
		>> easier
		
		
		
		>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this is
		
		
		
		>> something deserving more research.
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		>> Tina
		
		
		
		>> Tina Luffman
		
		
		
		>> Coordinator, Developmental Education
		
		
		
		>> Verde Valley Campus
		
		
		
		>> 928-634-6544
		
		
		
		>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		>> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>
		
		
		
		>> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
		
		
		
		>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
		
		
		
		>> Comments?!
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>> Warning: (not named).
		
		
		
		>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more
		
		
		
		>> information.
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three
		
		
		
		>> years)
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
		
		
		
		>> particularly if
		
		
		
		>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at
		
		
		
		>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I
		
		
		
		>> would
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a
		
		
		
		>> student
		
		
		
		>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because
		
		
		
		>> he/she
		
		
		
		>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try
		
		
		
		>> to
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
		
		
		
		>> concept
		
		
		
		>> in a second language.
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play
		
		
		
		>> a
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned
		
		
		
		>> from
		
		
		
		>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
		
		
		
		>> classes).
		
		
		
		>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.
		
		
		
		>> It's
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
		
		
		
		>> teachers.
		
		
		
		>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging
		
		
		
		>> me
		
		
		
		>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>> making some progress.
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		>> ________________________________
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
		
		
		
		>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
		
		
		
		>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		>> Hello everyone,
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		>> I'm so surprised! ?No one has anything to comment on regarding your
		
		
		
		>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? ?I was very
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that
		
		
		
		>> Dr.
		
		
		
		>> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research: ?a lack of intensity
		
		
		
		>> of
		
		
		
		>> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities
		
		
		
		>> for
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>> professional development.
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		>> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
		
		
		
		>> student
		
		
		
		>> from advancing? ?What do you try to do about that?
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>> Please post your questions and comments now.
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		>> Thanks!
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		>> Marie Cora
		
		
		
		>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>> Marie Cora
		
		
		
		>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
		
		
		
		>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com?> >
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
		
		
		
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From kbeall at onlyinternet.net  Thu Feb  7 15:41:25 2008
From: kbeall at onlyinternet.net (Kaye Beall)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 15:41:25 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1181] Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
	Instruction--registration opens
Message-ID: <00ca01c869c9$d4d08f00$030ba8c0@D14J7YD1>

World Education is pleased to offer Multiple Intelligences and
Differentiated Instruction as an online training. 

 

The course syllabus and registration details are attached. Contact Kaye
Beall at kaye_beall at worlded.org with questions.

************************

 

Adult Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated Instruction

 

Course Dates: March 12?May 13, 2008; Online chats during Lessons 3, 4, and 5

 

Course Description

Research conducted by the National Center for the Study of Adult Learning
and Literacy shows that instructional practices inspired by Multiple
Intelligences (MI) theory resulted in high levels of authentic instruction
and student engagement.

Integrate your understanding of Multiple Intelligences (MI) theory with the
power of differentiated instruction in this facilitated, eight-session
course. You?ll learn how to apply MI theory and differentiate instruction
for all levels of adult basic education and English for speakers of other
languages. The facilitator will guide you as you develop your own MI-based
lessons.

 

Objectives

Upon completion of this course you will be able to:

*Apply the theory of multiple intelligences (MI) to design learning
activities that match your learning objectives

*Use varying methods of differentiated instruction (DI) that address the
different skills and interests of your learners

*Apply knowledge of your own MI profile to your classroom teaching

*Produce and reflect on a lesson or unit using both MI and DI

 

Required Text:

Viens, Julie and Silja Kallenbach. Multiple Intelligences and Adult
Literacy: A Sourcebook for Practitioners. (New York: Teachers College Press,
2004. Copies of the required textbook can be obtained from the publisher,
Teachers College Press (TCP), the publisher at
http://store.tcpress.com/0807743461.shtml. The cost is $27.95 per copy.

 

Course Format and Schedule: facilitated, online

During this eight-week course, you will engage in self-paced activities and
readings, as well as asynchronous discussions with the facilitators and
course participants. Three synchronous chats will be scheduled during
Lessons 3, 4, and 5.

 

Syllabus: See attached PDF?AMI Course Details.

 

Course Facilitator: Wendy Qui?ones

 

Estimated Completion Time: 40 hours

 

Registration: Complete and return the attached registration form-[PDF].
Payment must be received prior to enrollment. Registration is limited to 20
participants.

 

Cancellation policy: World Education reserves the right to cancel the course
if the minimum number of registrants is not met by March 4, 2008.

 

Kaye Beall

Project Director

World Education

6760 West Street

Linn Grove, IN 46711

765-717-3942

kaye_beall at worlded.org

www.worlded.org

 

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From forrest at crosslink.net  Fri Feb  8 11:01:08 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:01:08 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1182] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
	or	Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <006401c86a61$b871d920$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
References: <1dd5701e0802051006i6f9e4473wcc9aa9810ca65f7c@mail.gmail.com>	<OF56C5D320.83B8357C-ON072573E6.0065B469-072573E6.0065D41F@yc.edu>	<000d01c86854$6e1dfde0$4a59f9a0$@net>	<1dd5701e0802060401r7fe15e6apb5e2af1d1564f98a@mail.gmail.com>	<8CA36DB4BFA2167-E5C-2BC8@WEBMAIL-MA05.sysops.aol.com><49516.130.85.83.224.1202329625.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>	<8CA372E1335CD5E-1370-2018@webmail-da11.sysops.aol.com><003701c86991$82141df0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>	<8CA37CAAE28180F-147C-1241@mblk-d23.sysops.aol.com>
	<006401c86a61$b871d920$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
Message-ID: <003601c86a6b$d47ce920$7d76bb60$@net>

Ted,

 

Fascinating story.  I once spent a lot of time looking at  employer-sponsored ?workplace education? programs, and found that their quality (given their goals) varied greatly. So did the corporate commitment. As I recall Levi Straus once had a good one in El Paso (run by the college), but it went away when the company moved all of its manufacturing to Asia. One interesting thing I saw in many of these programs was relevant to your final observation ? a surprising number of students who participated in job-specific ESL went on to enroll in more comprehensive ESL programs. So if workplace education served no other purpose, it served as a recruiting ground for comprehensive ESL . Ultimately it seemed to be a matter of raising aspirations ? people living/working in an entirely Spanish speaking environment got the idea that English as worth learning and that they could do it. Then they wanted more. In some cases the sacrifices they made were amazing ? but they did make them. In a few cases, companies granted some release time as a ?benefit? to facilitate this, after they had terminated their job-specific ESL programs. Any way you slice it, these were ?feel good? stories of immigrants finding more opportunities than they expected in America.  

 

Forrest 

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Ted Klein
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 9:49 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1175] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!

 

Andres,

 

I'm not too sure that some of your perspectives haven't been somewhat altered by living in El Paso. I say that with total respect for El Paso and for your answer. Let me explain. First, I've lived in Texas most of my life, except for some time overseas. I know just about all of our border towns, from El Paso to Brownsville. I've also lived in nine countries outside of the United States and traveled perhaps in twenty more. AXIOM: All over the world, border towns are different  from other towns. Persons, regardless of ancestry,  who live in border towns anywhere tend to be bicultural and bilingual. They also tend to identify with each other on close levels as being a well-made "tossed salad." If most or all of your students plan to stay in El Paso for the rest of their lives, I totally agree with what you say. However, if they want to go to cities north of the border area; Dallas, Ft. Worth, Austin, Houston, Waco, or out of state, then the picture changes. I am almost as comfortable in Spanish as I am in English and have dealt with persons from every country in Latin America comfortably and successfully, as well as Spain. However, I do not represent anything close to a majority, particularly when it comes to having a business. When persons go for job interviews in non-border towns, being truly bilingual is a great asset and can even result in higher pay and better opportunities. That is true for Spanish speakers and English speakers. However, most of your persons who have had to take the GED in Spanish are not truly bilingual. That's a fact and when they go for a job interview, the human resources person doesn't need paperwork to know that there may be communication problems with clients and on the telephone. The fact is that life is short. However it is long enough for persons to spend a couple of more years acquiring English if it gives them more options in life. Again, if they plan to spend their lives in a border town, this may not be a problem at all. 

 

Three years ago, my wife and I and one of our colleagues, took an ESL teaching gig at a cookie factory in Austin. Quite a few of their employees did not speak English and the company wanted to fix that situation. There were 27 persons who had volunteered to take English classes at work, maybe six hours a week. The first problem was how to determine divisions of 27 students among three teachers. I got out a brief "test" that I had used to determine readiness for the ALCPT tests in the past.

 

Here is a copy:

 

ORAL INTERVIEW QUESTIONS TO DETERMINE ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE

 

                                                      Block 2                 Ted Klein

 

Questions marked with an asterisk * are mandatory. Of the remaining questions, ten should be selected at random. Speech of the interviewer will be at normal speed and clarity, with NO exaggeration.

 

1. What is your name please?* -----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

2. Where are you from?* -------

 

3. What part of XXXXXXX are you from?-------

 

4. What is your native language? -------

 

5. How long have you been in America? -------

 

6. Do you read English?* -------

 

7. Did you study English in your country? -------

 

8. How long did you study English? -------

 

9. Are you enjoying the U.S.A? -------

 

10. What do you like here? -------

 

11. Is there anything that you don't like? -------

 

12. Have you studied any other languages besides English? -------

 

13. Why do you want to learn English? -------

 

14. How many years of education have you had? -------

 

15. Do you have any hobbies? What are they? -------

 

16. Do you have any American friends to practice English with? -------

 

17. Do you work?  Where? -------

 

18. What are your plans for the future? -------

 

19. Why did you come to America? -------

 

20. Do you have any questions for me? -------

 

 

Mark responses: 0 no answer.   0+ telegraphic/very simple response. 

1 simple, but complete response.  1+ functional and clear response.

2   somewhat elaborate, fairly clear and mostly grammatical response.

 

Interviewees with ten or more answers in the 1+ to 2 range should be ready to take a written

proficiency test of listening and reading skills. Non-readers are excluded. (ref: Ques. 6)

 

The three of us interviewed the 27 candidates together. 19 out of the 27 were not able to answer the second question: e.g. (Teacher) Where are you from?

(Candidate) ?Mande?  (Teacher) Where are you from? ?Como?  (Teacher) Are you from Mexico? (Candidate) M?xico, "jes." One answered, "M?xico, no, Peru s?."

 

The 8 students who were able to answer that question and maybe four or five more questions were assigned to an "advanced class." The others were split into two groups. What happened here? Many of these persons had lived in Austin for some time. Some for up to ten years. Most had families. The families naturally used Spanish at home, even their children who spoke English at school. They had Spanish-speaking supervisors. They watched television in Spanish. They ate at Mexican restaurants. They went to Spanish-speaking doctors. 95% of their friends were Hispanic. In plain language, if they wanted to stay at the cookie factory, making cookies, they didn't need English, although the company preferred that they know English for upward mobility. This program went on for three or four months.The company merged and our program ended. We did not use Spanish in class. In early training I use materials that I developed based on some of the old "direct methods;" picture flashcards, Cuisenaire rods, etc. and we also concentrated strongly on English sounds, particularly listening and identification. The program went surprisingly well and many of the students were very disappointed when it ended. They had already found some new places to go and some were acquiring English-speaking friends.

 

So what is the good news? Several of our former students have entered the Austin Community College AE program and are doing well. One of them is in my class now. She has a child and often works at night at the cookie factory. Sometimes she comes in looking very tired, but she's surviving. She wants to be a Certified Nursing Assistant. She'll make it! She plans to take the GED in English next year and enter the Nursing Program at ACC. Most of her future patients will not be bilingual and she will be ready for them. 

 

That's about it.

 

Ted  

www.tedklein-ESL.com

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: andresmuro at aol.com 

To: assessment at nifl.gov 

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 12:02 PM

Subject: [Assessment 1153] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!

 

Ted:

How would the employer know the language that Julian took the GED in?
In most states the certificate does not tell you the Language. Texas is one of the few states that tells you the language. However, it is so hard to find that most people wouldn't even know. I have a hard time finding the language reference even though I have seen millions of certificates. Fact is most employers don't even know that people can take the GED in anything other than English, don't ask and do not scrutinize certificates to figure out scores, language, etc. A few might, but the majority don't. For low literacy Spanish speakers it may take them a couple of years to be ready to take the GED in Spanish. It make take them 2 more years to be ready for the English GED. Would you rather hold them two more years. They can take the GED in Spanish and continue to study English. Once they have sufficient English, they can decide if they want to take it in English or to move on to other things.

Andres

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Klein <taklein at austin.rr.com>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 6:58 am
Subject: [Assessment 1150] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!

Jodi and Andres,

 

There is one very real problem with taking the GED in Spanish that I'm aware of. If you have two immigrants, Roberto and Ju?n, and they both apply for the same job and if Ju?n took the GED in Spanish and Roberto took it in English, guess who gets the job?

Yes, life isn't fair, but most U.S. businesses prefer persons who have gone "all the way" with English. My students and I have discussed this and they have seen or know of this situation with their friends and family members. That is why many AE students remain longer in our ESL classes. Of course in many border towns, this may not be as important since many of the employers are Hispanic or are native speakers of English who are functional in Spanish. However, many customers of the businesses will need to use English. 

 

In my current class in Austin, Texas with eleven students, five different languages are spoken. Should we offer the GED in Arabic, Chinese, Korean, and Juba as well as Spanish?

 

 

Ted

www.tedklein-ESL.com 

 

 

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: andresmuro at aol.com 

To: crandall at umbc.edu ; assessment at nifl.gov 

Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 5:21 PM

Subject: [Assessment 1146] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!

 

Jodi:

The credit ESL program in the college is very academic. However it provides students with financial aid and other goodies. We feel that the students will not do well in a credit academic ESL program until they have a level comparable to GED in their native language. Also, a GED certificate is a way to demonstrate ability to benefit to qualify for financial aid. Those students who get into the credit ESL program without native language literacy don't do well. 

Students can attend other ESL classes in the community while they are attending our classes. We stopped providing ESL because of limited funding to provide what we would consider meaningful ESL. Also, our Spanish GED program is fairly intensive and our students would not have enough time to attend an additional program. We have a few students who may be attending our classes and an ESL class concurrently. Those are a minority

The truth is that we started as an ESL literacy program many years ago. There was virtually no funding for  literacy ESL unless it  had all kind of testing requirements. Also, it is very hard to train teachers to be really good at ESL. The system that encourages large number of untrained part timers prevents this from happening. 

I know that a lot of people in these listservs claim exemplary service and illustrate  with examples of what they have done. I don't doubt that  their claims are 100% true. However,  we are in the minority. If I could get you and Heide and Elsa and Andy Nash and Leonore and Deborah Schwartz, and Anson Green and Federico and others to be my ESL teachers, I would have the best program in the world. However, the fact is that in addition to the barriers that ESL students face in their daily lives, plus the bureaucratic and assessment barriers that the system creates for teachers and students, plus the difficulty hiring and retaining highly qualified ESL staff makes it very difficult to have a successful ESL program. 

I feel that until we get rid of WIA/NRS it will be tough to create good stuff in a systematic way. 

Andres



 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 1:27 pm
Subject: [Assessment 1141] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!

Andres,



























It is great that you provide Spanish language literacy and GED classes for













your students.  There's no question that native language literacy













contributes not just to the development of the first language, but also to













English language development when students take oral ESL classes.  There













is some research in this area by Michele Burtoff with Haitians in the U.S.













and there is a lot of research (see especially research by David Ramirez













which compares children who had 6, 3 or no years of bilingual education)













that shows that providing bilingual education not only has all the













benefits that would be expected, but students also achieve in English as













well or better than those who only had instruction in English.



























We also found that Spanish GED classes had large numbers of students at













the colleges, since students who take the GED in Spanish are able to













bypass the need for extensive ESL just to get this credential.  They might













want to take ESL as well, but the desire for the GED is often for













work-related reasons.  I'm not clear on why you ask students to wait until













after they have passed the GED to take ESL classes.  Can you tell us a













little more about that?



























Of course not all students who enroll in adult ESL are Spanish speakers













and there may not be enough who speak any language to provide literacy













classes for them in their own language, but programs might try to partner













with immigrant or refugee-related community-based organizations which













could reach more students and also identify someone to provide the













instruction.  Still, there will  be students who will not be able to take













literacy classes in their own languages and for them, a separate ESL













literacy class seems to be the best option.



























It would be great to hear from others about their experiences both with













first language (Spanish and other languages) literacy classes, Spanish GED













classes, and literacy ESL classes.



























How do you place students in your literacy classes?  Do you use a













standardized test or do you have informal ways of determining if someone













would be better served in a literacy ESL class?









































Jodi



























>













>  Problem is that in many ESL people are placed in ESL classes based on an













> English placement multiple choice test. A student with advanced education













> in L1 and one with little education in L1 may know very little English













> and they may both be placed in the same level. The student with advance













> education will progress much faster than the one with little education.













> The advanced L1 student will understand concepts like sentence,













> paragraph, verb, subject, direct object, adjective, composition and essay













> readily. The one with with little education will need to understand these













> concepts. It takes a while for people to master these concepts. A highly













> educated L2? learner will likely progress faster academically in a second













> language than a fluent native speaker of that? language with limited













> academic education, for the same reason. This is observed regularly in













> universities all over the US. highly educated foreign students who













> acquired English as L2 recently will do better than their Eng













>  lish speaking counterparts in academic tasks in English. Jim Cummins has













> articulated this clearly with his BICS and CALPS.













>













> In our program at El Paso Community College we have found evidence of













> this. We stopped doing literacy ESL a while back for this reason. The













> college has an academic ESL program. Instead of doing ESL literacy we













> started offering Spanish Literacy and GED many years ago since the vast













> majority of our students are Spanish speakers. Once our students acquire













> their Spanish GED they transition into the ESL program and do better than













> those students who don't have L1 academic skills. Even if takes them a













> while to acquire the L1 literacy, they will do better. Those with no L1













> literacy often stay in ESL forever and they drop out, start again in













> another program, drop out and continue the same pattern. I think that this













> happens because of the mixture of academically ready students and those













> that are not ready, since most ESL programs focus on traditional













> academics. For L1 low literacy students to be able to progress in L2 there













> has to be a program specifically designed for them that teache













>  s skills in L2 in new and innovative ways without interference from













> academically skilled L1 students. Right now we don't have a system that













> systematically does this, and the WIA/NRS system prevents this form













> happening.













>













> Hope that this makes sense,













>













> Andres













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> -----Original Message-----













> From: Jackie Coelho <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>













> To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>













> Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 5:01 am













> Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or













> Comments?!













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> Forrest,













>













>













> ?? I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy













> background and those without. These two groups have such different needs.













> Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs













> of either group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate













> the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor













> does not keep up with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they













> often become frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the













> instructor keeps up with those students, the others are unable to keep up













> and they get frustrated.













>













>













>













> ? I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of













> how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.













>













>













> Jackie













>













> ?













>













>













> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in













> student performance:













>













>













> ?













>













>













> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly













> educated students do better in terms of ?persistence, learning gains, and













> transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably













> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education













> makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of













> their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That













> is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education













> makes? Or any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior













> education that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are













> completely illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high













> school graduates, college graduates, etc. -- ?or is level of prior













> education pretty much of a continuum?













>













>













>













> ?













>













>













> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly













> educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably students













> with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower













> level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by













> definition) ?in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes













> math. Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at













> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be













> desirable to place less highly educated students in separate classes from













> those with more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for













> them accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or













> the Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these













> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of













> "bi-lingual education" that should be tried?













>













>













>













> ?













>













>













> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the













> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of













> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large













> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means),













> ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very little education













> in their native countries and too little money to serve them. ?So anyone













> who has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a













> lot by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.













>













>













>













> ?













>













>













> Forrest Chisman













>













>













> Vice President













>













>













> CAAL













>













>













> ?













>













>













> ??













>













>













> ?













>













>













>













>













> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov <mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov?> ] On













> Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu













>













> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM













> To: The Assessment Discussion List













> Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or













> Comments?!













>













>













>













>













>













>













> ?













>













>













>













> Hi Jackie,













>













> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my













> former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual education













> in the K-12 school system.













>













>













> Tina













>













> Tina Luffman













> Coordinator, Developmental Education













> Verde Valley Campus













> 928-634-6544













> tina_luffman at yc.edu













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> "Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>













>













> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov













>













>













> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> Please respond to













> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> To













>













>













>













>













>













> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> cc













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> Subject













>













>













>













>













>













> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or ? ? ?













> ?Comments?!













>













>













>













>













>













>













> ?













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> Hi Tina,













>













> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in













> favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in













>













> the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation













> in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second













> or third language.













>













> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not













> written.













>













>













> Jackie













>













>













> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:













>













>> Hi list members,













>>













>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to that













>> of













>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country













>> they













>













>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather quickly













>> and













>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their country













>> or













>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much













>













>> advancement.













>>













>> This experience relates well to research done among Native American













>> tribes













>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught













>> literacy













>













>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who













>> tried













>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their own













>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The













>













>> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much













>> easier













>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this is













>> something deserving more research.













>













>>













>> Tina













>> Tina Luffman













>> Coordinator, Developmental Education













>> Verde Valley Campus













>> 928-634-6544













>> tina_luffman at yc.edu













>













>>













>> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----













>>













>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>













>













>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>













>> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov













>













>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM













>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or













>> Comments?!













>>













>>













>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed













>













>> Warning: (not named).













>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more













>> information.













>>













>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three













>> years)













>













>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,













>> particularly if













>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at













>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I













>> would













>













>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a













>> student













>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because













>> he/she













>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try













>> to













>













>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard













>> concept













>> in a second language.













>>













>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play













>> a













>













>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned













>> from













>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than













>> classes).













>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.













>> It's













>













>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL













>> teachers.













>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging













>> me













>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're













>













>> making some progress.













>>













>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?













>>













>> ________________________________













>>













>













>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora













>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM













>













>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov













>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!













>













>>













>>













>> Hello everyone,













>>













>> I'm so surprised! ?No one has anything to comment on regarding your













>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? ?I was very













>













>> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that













>> Dr.













>> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research: ?a lack of intensity













>> of













>> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities













>> for













>













>> professional development.













>>













>> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL













>> student













>> from advancing? ?What do you try to do about that?













>>













>













>> Please post your questions and comments now.













>>













>> Thanks!













>>













>> Marie Cora













>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator













>>













>>













>













>> Marie Cora













>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com













>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com?> >













>













>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator













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ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880













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-------------- next part --------------
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From forrest at crosslink.net  Fri Feb  8 11:13:42 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:13:42 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1183] Re: {Dangerous Content?} assessments
In-Reply-To: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870AD7F2CE@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
References: <004b01c869f8$8d950a60$a8bf1f20$@net>
	<208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870AD7F2CE@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
Message-ID: <004101c86a6d$95aef5b0$c10ce110$@net>

Jim,

Very interesting, and thanks. What puzzles me is that a lot of people seems
to say, as you do, that CASAS and other standardized tests work well for
NRS, but not for teaching/learning. But if the purpose of NRS is to
determine how much students are learning in particular programs, how can
this be so? Maybe I'm just dumb about this, but I'd rather confess my
ignorance than live with it. Shouldn't NRS be measuring what your students
are actually learning? And if CASAS and other standardized tests don't do
that, don't we need either a better assessment system, or a better way of
reporting to NRS by other means.

As I say, maybe I'm just dim.

Forrest       

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Schneider, Jim
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 10:31 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1177] Re: {Dangerous Content?} assessments

CASAS is the assessment of choice (mandated) in Iowa. If teachers and
learners buy into competency-based instruction, the CASAS assessments
have some utility. The short-comings and artificiality of standardized
tests seem to be amplified with the ESL. 

The reading and listening tests fall short of providing a comprehensive
useful assessment of the student's abilities at orientation. We offer
three levels in the morning, beginning, intermediate, and advanced, with
the placement being done using their writing (application), speaking and
listening (initial interview questions), and reading (based on the
literacy demonstrated with the application and interview). 

However, due to the mix of skills, the beginning and intermediate are
really blended multi-level classes with some beginners who can read, but
struggle with speech and writing, and some intermediate who can speak
very clearly, but struggle with the reading and writing and virtually
every other possible combination. 

Similarly, teachers and students have been frustrated with the lack of
progress in post-testing as well as the inconsistency of the scores.
Those students that bring high literacy skills to the class tend to have
fairly consistent scores. Those who are not as literate (and are a
growing population in ESL) can swing up and down the scaled score
throughout the year with little rhyme or reason. 

Bottom line - CASAS works well for the standardization required by NRS,
but is not as powerful or useful in regard to teaching and learning as
one would like. 

Jim Schneider

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 8:16 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1170] Re: {Dangerous Content?} assessments

Gail,

Good question!!!!!!!!!! I'd be interested in the replies. Because CASAS
is MANDATED in many states, and most programs don't want to use more
than one assessment (because of limited time for testing and fear of
over-testing).
What do you all think of CASAS for ESL?

Forrest 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Gail Burnett
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:08 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1162] {Dangerous Content?} assessments

Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
Warning: (not named).
Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more
information.

All the discussion on this list (the first I've ever joined) has been
fascinating. I have a question I haven't seen addressed. Someone said
that the BEST-Plus is the only valid kind of test for ESL learners. What
does anyone think of the CASAS? That's what we use with our adult
students, both ELLs and native speakers. I know it wasn't designed for
ESL use but it does use real-life material (road maps, pay stubs, store
signs, etc.) and I think that's good. What has always bothered me is
that it's taken silently. That doesn't seem right for our lower level
students, who rarely make many gains.
I wonder if it's considered valid for them or not. I know that other ESL
programs do use it.

Thanks.


-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of
assessment-request at nifl.gov
Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 5:57 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: Assessment Digest, Vol 29, Issue 28
 
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Today's Topics:

   1. [Assessment 1160] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
      or	Comments?! (Jodi Crandall)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 17:22:49 -0500
From: Jodi Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu>
Subject: [Assessment 1160] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
	or	Comments?!
To: "Forrest Chisman" <forrest at crosslink.net>
Cc: 'The Assessment Discussion List' <assessment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <076B1938-8827-49B0-9890-3DA0BC4C3641 at umbc.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Forrest,

I'm not sure yet that I know the question, but here goes ...

I don't know of community college programs now that continue to separate
out literacy level students after the actual literacy class.  Does
anyone else>

When I mentioned higher levels of prior education, in this context, I
didn't mean college-educated students, but those with closer to a high
school education n their own countries.  These are the students that we
used to believe were the main students that we served, not the literacy
level students who are increasingly being enrolled  in our classes.

For highly educated individuals, those with college degrees in their own
countries, most of the programs that I know seek to transition these
students into more academic ESL programs at the intermediate levels.  In
fact, some community colleges, like the English for Academic Purposes
College of Lake County, that we studied, created a seamless transition
from noncredit to credit academic ESL courses by working backwards from
the credit expectations and then aligning the intermediate level
noncredit ESL to them.

City College, as you know, provides accelerated ESL classes (two terms
in
one) for more educated students, since they are likely to be able to
make faster progress.


Jodi

On Feb 6, 2008, at 5:52 PM, Forrest Chisman wrote:

> Jodi,
>
> I think you misunderstood me (as usual) :-). My question wasn't about 
> separating out literacy level students. I agree most programs do that.
> My question was about the other practice from the 1980's you mention
> -- separate classes for students with higher levels of prior education

> ABOVE the literacy level.
>
> Forrest
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM
> To: The Assessment Discussion List
> Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions 
> or Comments?!
>
> Jackie and Forrest,
>
> I think most large programs separate literacy level students from 
> others who are at a beginning level.  I know that back in the 1980s 
> when there were large refugee ESL programs, several community colleges

> created parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels and even into 
> intermediate levels, with one set of classes for students with limited

> literacy or prior schooling and another for more educated students.
> The reason was that the students with less education made slower 
> progress.  Some of this is undoubtedly due to the way in which we 
> teach English (requiring literacy), but it is also because students 
> need to become accustomed to attending classes, learning to hold and 
> use a pen or pencil, and a wide range of basic skills that come with 
> being a student in a class.
>
> Those of you who have separate classes for those who need  
> literacy:   Can
> you tell us what kind of classes or program you provide?
>
> Those who teach both literacy and more educated learners in the same
> class:  Can you let us know how you manage?  What are some ways in 
> which you accommodate both sets of needs?
>
> Jodi
>> Forrest,
>>    I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy 
>> background and those without. These two groups have such different 
>> needs.
>> Having both
>> in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs of 
>> either group well and I find that often the stronger students 
>> dominate the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the 
>> instructor does not keep up with the students who are learning at a 
>> faster rate, they often become frustrated and leave or mentally check

>> out. However, if the instructor keeps up with those students, the 
>> others are unable to keep up and they get frustrated.
>>   I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And 
>> regardless of how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.
>> Jackie
>>
>>
>> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>  To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor

>>> in student performance:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more 
>>> highly educated students do better in terms of  persistence, 
>>> learning gains, and transitions. And learning theory would lead us 
>>> to expect this.
>>> Regrettably
>>> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior 
>>> education makes, because too few programs track the level of prior 
>>> education of their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any 
>>> of you do this?
>>> That is,
>>> do
>>> you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education 
>>> makes?
>>> Or
>>> any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior 
>>> education that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are 
>>> completely illiterate, students who at least reached high school, 
>>> high school graduates, college graduates, etc. --  or is level of 
>>> prior education pretty much of a continuum?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between 
>>> highly educated students and those with less prior education?
>>> Presumably students with very low levels of education are more 
>>> likely end up in the lower level ESL courses (Literacy or 
>>> Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by
>>> definition)  in the business of teaching basic literacy and 
>>> sometimes math.
>>> Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at 
>>> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would 
>>> it be desirable to place less highly educated students in separate 
>>> classes from those with more education and adjust the 
>>> curriculum/support systems for them accordingly? Some programs have 
>>> tried "native language literacy"
>>> or the
>>> Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these 
>>> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of 
>>> "bi-lingual education" that should be tried?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because 
>>> the people who study immigration tell us that the level of education

>>> of immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates 
>>> large numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever 
>>> that means), ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very

>>> little education in their native countries and too little money to 
>>> serve them.  So anyone who has any ideas about how to bridge this 
>>> "education gap" could help us a lot by posting ideas about how to 
>>> close it on this discussion list.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Forrest Chisman
>>>
>>> Vice President
>>>
>>> CAAL
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
>>> bounces at nifl.gov] *On Behalf Of *Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
>>> *To:* The Assessment Discussion List
>>> *Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No 
>>> Questions or Comments?!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Jackie,
>>>
>>> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what

>>> my former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual 
>>> education in the K-12 school system.
>>>
>>> Tina
>>>
>>> Tina Luffman
>>> Coordinator, Developmental Education Verde Valley Campus
>>> 928-634-6544
>>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>>
>>>   *"Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>* Sent by: 
>>> assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>
>>> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM
>>>
>>> Please respond to
>>> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>>
>>> To
>>>
>>> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>>
>>> cc
>>>
>>> Subject
>>>
>>> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or 
>>> Comments?!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Tina,
>>>
>>> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement 
>>> in favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not 
>>> implemented in the best way. For many years people have known that a

>>> good foundation in literacy in the first language will facilitate 
>>> learning in a second or third language.
>>>
>>> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not

>>> written.
>>>
>>> Jackie
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:
>>>> Hi list members,
>>>>
>>>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to
>>> that
>>> of
>>>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the 
>>>> country
>>> they
>>>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather
>>> quickly
>>> and
>>>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their
>>> country
>>> or
>>>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much 
>>>> advancement.
>>>>
>>>> This experience relates well to research done among Native American
>>> tribes
>>>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
>>> literacy
>>>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those 
>>>> who
>>> tried
>>>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in 
>>>> their
>>> own
>>>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. 
>>>> The concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish 
>>>> were much
>>> easier
>>>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps 
>>>> this
>>> is
>>>> something deserving more research.
>>>>
>>>> Tina
>>>> Tina Luffman
>>>> Coordinator, Developmental Education Verde Valley Campus
>>>> 928-634-6544
>>>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>>>
>>>> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>>>>
>>>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org> Sent by: 
>>>> assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or

>>>> Comments?!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
>>>> Warning: (not named).
>>>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for
>>> more
>>>> information.
>>>>
>>>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about 
>>>> three
>>> years)
>>>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
>>> particularly if
>>>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, 
>>>> if
>>> at
>>>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first 
>>>> language. I
>>> would
>>>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a
>>> student
>>>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed 
>>>> because
>>> he/she
>>>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is
>>> try
>>> to
>>>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
>>> concept
>>>> in a second language.
>>>>
>>>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't
>>> play
>>> a
>>>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers 
>>>> (transitioned
>>> from
>>>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
>>> classes).
>>>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow 
>>>> advancement.
>>> It's
>>>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
>>> teachers.
>>>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is
>>> encouraging
>>> me
>>>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think
>>> we're
>>>> making some progress.
>>>>
>>>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>
>>>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
>>>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your

>>>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was 
>>>> very curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of 
>>>> issues
>>> that
>>> Dr.
>>>> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of 
>>>> intensity
>>> of
>>>> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few 
>>>> opportunities
>>> for
>>>> professional development.
>>>>
>>>> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>>> student
>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
>>>>
>>>> Please post your questions and comments now.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Marie Cora
>>>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marie Cora
>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator 
>>>> <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>>> intended
>>>> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>>> addressed.
>>>> If you have received this email in error please notify the system
>>> manager.
>>>> This message contains confidential information and is intended only
>>> for
>>> the
>>>> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not

>>>> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
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>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
>>>> <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>> Assessment mailing list
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>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
>>> <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
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>>> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu 
>>> <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>> Assessment mailing list
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>>> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>
>
>
> --
> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Professor, Education Department
> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture Coordinator, 
> Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/ Bilingual 
> Education University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC) 1000 Hilltop

> Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
> email: crandall at umbc.edu
> www.umbc.edu/llc/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to forrest at crosslink.net
>
>

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor and Director
Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program Director, Peace Corps
Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education University of Maryland
Baltimore County 1000 Hilltop Circle Baltimore, MD 21250
tel:  410-455-2313
fax: 410-455-8947
eml: crandall at umbc.edu




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From crandall at umbc.edu  Fri Feb  8 11:39:35 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (Jodi Crandall)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:39:35 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1184] Re: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <001f01c86a69$364ee6b0$a2ecb410$@net>
References: <CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B2E@exchr.raritanval.edu>	<007201c86a04$26b41a50$741c4ef0$@net>
	<CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B3C@exchr.raritanval.edu>
	<001f01c86a69$364ee6b0$a2ecb410$@net>
Message-ID: <4BF38AF2-AB8B-4E41-A30B-388D328E41BF@umbc.edu>

Kevin,

Are many of your students what we now refer to as generation 1.5  
students?  They have had much or most of their education in this  
country, but may still need extensive help with academic English,  
especially in writing?

If so, are there any special things that you have tried to help this  
population?

Do you also have international students?

Joy Reid has written extensively about "ear" learners (generation 1.5  
learners would likely be here) and "eye" learners and how their needs  
are so different.  Ear learners are those who were immersed in an  
English-speaking environment and have learned their English orally.   
As you suggest, they have strong Basic Interpersonal Communication  
Skills or social language, but may not have developed the academic  
language required for success in the community college.  Eye learners  
are just the opposite: they have learned English through books and  
lack the fluency of ear learners, but are more likely to have more  
standard English  While these two groups share some common needs,  
they are also very different in others.  It's a real challenge.   
Getting these ear learners prepared for the college is something that  
lots of people are talking and writing about.

There is also the problem with the first group that they speak  
English and often are offended when told they need more English,  
especially when it's ESL!

In effect you are teaching only credit ESL, is that right?  Are there  
linkages with any of the programs in the community that are teaching  
lower level ESL?

Jodi
On Feb 8, 2008, at 10:42 AM, Forrest Chisman wrote:

> Kevin,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the explanation. I find it VERY useful. It?s a very  
> interesting model. I?m not surprised that your students are  
> motivated for college, because they?ve signed up for a college prep  
> track! What worries me are the limited aspirations of many lower  
> level ESL students who may have college potential.
>
>
>
> I understand now why you don?t have the resources to operate a more  
> comprehensive program. I?ve heard an increasing number of stories  
> about areas were the LEA runs the federal/state  adult education  
> ESL grant program and has asked the local college to take it over  
> (because the LEA has concluded it?s an ?adult? program). Have there  
> been any rumblings of that in your area?
>
>
>
> Best of luck in your good work.
>
>
>
> Forrest
>
>
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 9:42 AM
> To: The Assessment Discussion List; The Assessment Discussion List
> Subject: [Assessment 1174] Re: (no subject)
>
>
>
> I believe we do have a hard time getting enough students fed into  
> our program and with the appropriate background to succeed if they  
> do come to us. It is a real problem. There are some workplace ESL  
> programs which are run through our Corporate and Continuing  
> Education Office, but those students rarely, if ever, come to us.  
> And they serve the employees of specific companies as opposed to  
> the community at large.
>
>
>
> Our ESL program is within an academic department in the college  
> (Communication and Languages) and so is run like every other. ESL  
> students pay the same tuition and fees as all other students at the  
> college. We do not receive special government funding beyond what  
> the state and counties provide for the college as a whole as a part  
> of our yearly budget.
>
>
>
> Finances are probably a big reason why we are getting fewer  
> students at the low levels. Community programs are free or low  
> cost; although in the scheme of higher education, the community  
> college is less expensive, it may still be out of reach of many  
> students.
>
>
>
> In terms of having a more comprehensive program, we are limited by  
> a small staff, and the unlikelihood of being able to expand given  
> college budgeting restraints. In addition, our three full-time  
> faculty members (including myself) not only teach 15 credit hours  
> per semester but also do the administrative work required. We do  
> advising, scheduling, and the many other tasks associate with  
> keeping the program afloat. The only "official" administrative  
> support for the program is through the 3 hours of overload I  
> receive to serve as Adjunct Coordinator.
>
>
>
> The belief that they can attend college does not seem to be a  
> problem with our population although I can certainly see that it  
> could be. A growing problem for us (and many around the country) is  
> the disconnect between high schools and colleges in terms of  
> student preparation. Either the high schools do not think the  
> students are college-bound and so don't bother to give them a  
> college-prep course of study, or there is simply a growing gap  
> between the expectations of each. Additionally, students seem to  
> think that a high school diploma equates to college readiness.
>
>
>
> We do our best to advise students, but we don't always have enough  
> time - and as professors primarily - may not know ourselves what  
> all of the options for students are.
>
>
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Forrest Chisman
> Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 10:38 PM
> To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
> Subject: [Assessment 1172] Re: (no subject)
>
> Dear Kevin,
>
>
>
> Many thanks for providing all of us with a profile of your program.  
> Seeing the variety of college program goals and designs is  
> extremely valuable in stimulating ideas about how to do a better  
> job in delivering ESL.
>
>
>
> Personally, I think that it is perfectly valid for colleges to  
> elect to offer solely pre-academic ESL at the non-credit level. But  
> it does prompt the concern about whether other programs in the  
> college?s service area are providing non-academic ESL to large  
> enough numbers of students and at a high enough quality to ?feed?  
> the college program ? as well as how well their efforts articulate  
> with yours. I wonder whether this troubles you, and if so whether/ 
> how you have addressed the issue.  Frankly, I think one reason why  
> many colleges offer comprehensive ESL programs is that they would  
> prefer to ?make? pre-academic students themselves, rather than rely  
> on others to do it. Another reason, of course, if that they may not  
> be eligible for federal/state grant money unless they offer  
> comprehensive programs. Does your college receive these funds to  
> support its pre-academic program? If not, how is it supported  
> financially?
>
>
>
> I heartily agree that helping students set realistic goals and  
> understand their options is essential. I believe, however, that  
> encouraging students to expand their goals as they succeed is also  
> essential. For example, many immigrants come from countries where  
> going to college is the privilege of very few, and thus may  
> consider that an unrealistic goal  unless they are encouraged to  
> take the steps necessary (often one step at a time). The problem  
> seems to be that it is hard for most programs to find the resources  
> to provide very much guidance of any of these kinds to most  
> students. I wonder if anyone has any solutions to THAT issue.
>
>
>
> In any event, many thanks for fleshing out an interesting model.
>
>
>
> Forrest
>
>
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:19 PM
> To: assessment at nifl.gov
> Subject: [Assessment 1148] (no subject)
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> I have been reading most of the discussion comments and wanted to  
> address a few issues. First, however, I'll give a summary of our  
> program.
>
>
>
> I teach ESL at Raritan Valley Community College in New Jersey. Our  
> program serves approximately 350 students from diverse language  
> backgrounds. Our program offers two pre-academic levels of all  
> skills ESL instruction (a six hour per week non-credit class). In  
> addition, we have 5 levels of academic ESL preparation divided into  
> three courses - Reading/Writing, Grammar, and Speaking/Listening).  
> Our highest level Reading/Writing course gives successful students  
> 6 elective credits that count towards RVCC graduation, but those  
> credits do not transfer. Our semesters are 15 weeks. If a student  
> misses 20% of any class, the instructor may withdraw that student  
> (they are not, however, obliged to withdraw these students). At the  
> moment, the late enrollment policy is that students may register  
> for a course prior to the second week of class but not thereafter.  
> Research, of course, indicates that students who begin a class late  
> have a much higher rate of failure than those who begin on time.
>
>
>
> In our program, we have three full-time faculty and approximately  
> 16-18 adjuncts.
>
>
>
> We have focused our program on academic prep ESL because we are a  
> small program with limited resources, and we have a very difficult  
> time finding qualified adjuncts. Also, a significant majority of  
> our students have signalled their intention to obtain a college  
> degree. Moreover, there are community programs that offer basic  
> English skills although there is often a long waiting list to  
> obtain the services. In other issues, we use the Accuplacer ESL  
> test for placement and have in-house standardized tests at the end  
> of each level of grammar and reading/writing
>
>
>
> Within our classes, highly educated non-native speakers usually  
> progress much more quickly. One of the most challenging groups is  
> students who graduated from local high schools but still have  
> inadequate English skills - and not infrequently, weak academic  
> skills in general. One of the strategies that I would personally  
> wish for is real communication between K-12 and community colleges  
> so that students get the language skills they need before they  
> enter college. I understand that there is great pressure to move  
> students out of ESL in many school districts, but ultimately, it  
> does a huge disservice both financially and in terms of motivation  
> to students whose skills remain more BICS than CALP.
>
>
>
> I agree with those who suggest that first language literacy issues  
> should be addressed before students enter ESL. However, it becomes  
> complicated to find funding and support for such efforts. In my  
> experience, students with low level literacy skills become  
> frustrated and are not ultimately successful - probably by any  
> definition. I am uncomfortable with the idea that they are spending  
> hard-earned money when the chances for success in ESL are minimal.  
> We advise students that the program is academically-oriented; often  
> they have little understanding of what that means.
>
>
>
> I do not agree with the suggestion that the bar be lowered so that  
> students with low-intermediate skills be allowed in credit classes  
> (at least at my college). Historically, other faculty have little  
> experience handling language issues and are very unhappy when  
> students cannot read, write and converse at an appropriate level of  
> English. They end up feeling helpless. Students may pass classes;  
> however, I suspect that instructors do not want to deal with the  
> challenges and so turn a blind eye and let them through. Recently,  
> there has been a problem in the nursing department with non-native  
> English speaking students not passing board exams because they  
> enter the college from other programs and circumvent ESL with us.  
> They have trouble reading and answering questions on the exam. This  
> is a significant problem because nursing programs are judged in  
> terms of the success of their students on these standardized exams.
>
>
>
> I think the measure of success should be based on a realistic  
> assessment of student goals combined with a real-life discussion of  
> the possibilities and limitations. Ideally, students would have  
> incremental goals so that success could build. If the goals for  
> students with low literacy levels are not carefully discussed and  
> planned, then they will likely encounter more failure than success  
> because their expectaions will be unrealistic. The more we have the  
> opportunity to talk to students, the more likely it is that they  
> can develop short-term goals that are within their reach.  
> Unfortunately, we have no control over the myriad of complications  
> that accrue in their every day lives.
>
>
>
> Apologies for the length.
>
>
>
> Kevin Hinkle, Ph.D.
>
> Assistant Professor of ESL/Adjunct Coordinator
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor and Director
Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
University of Maryland Baltimore County
1000 Hilltop Circle
Baltimore, MD 21250
tel:  410-455-2313
fax: 410-455-8947
eml: crandall at umbc.edu




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From crandall at umbc.edu  Fri Feb  8 11:48:56 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (Jodi Crandall)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:48:56 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1185] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
	orComments?!
In-Reply-To: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870AD7F32B@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
References: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870AD7F32B@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
Message-ID: <4CA15A25-2C3D-42D0-BAF3-C0ED4E232D86@umbc.edu>

Jim,

I think you've summarized how I feel as well.

We can discuss the various options with students, but in the end, if  
we offer Spanish Literacy and Spanish GED, it's their choice.  Some  
will choose to do everything in English and take longer to do it, but  
others will choose to work in their own language.  For some students,  
the Spanish GED provides short-term benefits.  But they will still  
need ESL for future academic or vocational training, if they have  
limited English.

Have any programs tried to encourage students in Spanish Literacy or  
Spanish GED to take ESL classes as well?

Jodi




On Feb 8, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Schneider, Jim wrote:

> I feel compelled to put my two cents in on the Spanish GED.
>
> My experience is that both Andres and Ted have valid points. Here  
> in Eastern Iowa, there are few bilingual employers. Employers that  
> are bilingual rarely pay the best wages and are typically short of  
> employees if there are any signs of INS.
>
> On the other hand, many of the students who have completed the  
> Spanish GED are already employed, and have fairly decent English  
> skills, but are short on time. Attaining the GED provides them the  
> opportunity for advancement at work and/or access to postsecondary  
> education/training.
>
> It has been excruciating watch the one or two who insist on the GED  
> in English get through the Literature and Writing portions of the  
> test.
>
> And the difficulty of the new Spanish GED tests are such that it is  
> a rare student who can pass it. The old Spanish GED was attainable  
> for most learners who had a 6-8th grade education. We have found  
> that it is virtually impossible for anyone with less than a 10-11  
> grade education By simply translating the English test into Spanish  
> and then utilizing the standard scores/norms of the English test,  
> students who have passed it, have EARNED their GED.
>
> Jim S.
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Ted Klein
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 8:49 AM
> To: The Assessment Discussion List
> Subject: [Assessment 1175] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No  
> Questions orComments?!
>
> Andres,
>
> I'm not too sure that some of your perspectives haven't been  
> somewhat altered by living in El Paso. I say that with total  
> respect for El Paso and for your answer. Let me explain. First,  
> I've lived in Texas most of my life, except for some time overseas.  
> I know just about all of our border towns, from El Paso to  
> Brownsville. I've also lived in nine countries outside of the  
> United States and traveled perhaps in twenty more. AXIOM: All over  
> the world, border towns are different  from other towns. Persons,  
> regardless of ancestry,  who live in border towns anywhere tend to  
> be bicultural and bilingual. They also tend to identify with each  
> other on close levels as being a well-made "tossed salad." If most  
> or all of your students plan to stay in El Paso for the rest of  
> their lives, I totally agree with what you say. However, if they  
> want to go to cities north of the border area; Dallas, Ft. Worth,  
> Austin, Houston, Waco, or out of state, then the picture changes. I  
> am almost as comfortable in Spanish as I am in English and have  
> dealt with persons from every country in Latin America comfortably  
> and successfully, as well as Spain. However, I do not represent  
> anything close to a majority, particularly when it comes to having  
> a business. When persons go for job interviews in non-border towns,  
> being truly bilingual is a great asset and can even result in  
> higher pay and better opportunities. That is true for Spanish  
> speakers and English speakers. However, most of your persons who  
> have had to take the GED in Spanish are not truly bilingual. That's  
> a fact and when they go for a job interview, the human resources  
> person doesn't need paperwork to know that there may be  
> communication problems with clients and on the telephone. The fact  
> is that life is short. However it is long enough for persons to  
> spend a couple of more years acquiring English if it gives them  
> more options in life. Again, if they plan to spend their lives in a  
> border town, this may not be a problem at all.
>
> Three years ago, my wife and I and one of our colleagues, took an  
> ESL teaching gig at a cookie factory in Austin. Quite a few of  
> their employees did not speak English and the company wanted to fix  
> that situation. There were 27 persons who had volunteered to take  
> English classes at work, maybe six hours a week. The first problem  
> was how to determine divisions of 27 students among three teachers.  
> I got out a brief "test" that I had used to determine readiness for  
> the ALCPT tests in the past.
>
> Here is a copy:
>
> ORAL INTERVIEW QUESTIONS TO DETERMINE ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE
>
>                                                       Block  
> 2                 Ted Klein
>
> Questions marked with an asterisk * are mandatory. Of the remaining  
> questions, ten should be selected at random. Speech of the  
> interviewer will be at normal speed and clarity, with NO exaggeration.
>
> 1. What is your name please?*  
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> -
>
> 2. Where are you from?* -------
>
> 3. What part of XXXXXXX are you from?-------
>
> 4. What is your native language? -------
>
> 5. How long have you been in America? -------
>
> 6. Do you read English?* -------
>
> 7. Did you study English in your country? -------
>
> 8. How long did you study English? -------
>
> 9. Are you enjoying the U.S.A? -------
>
> 10. What do you like here? -------
>
> 11. Is there anything that you don't like? -------
>
> 12. Have you studied any other languages besides English? -------
>
> 13. Why do you want to learn English? -------
>
> 14. How many years of education have you had? -------
>
> 15. Do you have any hobbies? What are they? -------
>
> 16. Do you have any American friends to practice English with? -------
>
> 17. Do you work?  Where? -------
>
> 18. What are your plans for the future? -------
>
> 19. Why did you come to America? -------
>
> 20. Do you have any questions for me? -------
>
>
> Mark responses: 0 no answer.   0+ telegraphic/very simple response.
> 1 simple, but complete response.  1+ functional and clear response.
> 2   somewhat elaborate, fairly clear and mostly grammatical response.
>
> Interviewees with ten or more answers in the 1+ to 2 range should  
> be ready to take a written
> proficiency test of listening and reading skills. Non-readers are  
> excluded. (ref: Ques. 6)
>
> The three of us interviewed the 27 candidates together. 19 out of  
> the 27 were not able to answer the second question: e.g. (Teacher)  
> Where are you from?
> (Candidate) ?Mande?  (Teacher) Where are you from? ?Como?   
> (Teacher) Are you from Mexico? (Candidate) M?xico, "jes." One  
> answered, "M?xico, no, Peru s?."
>
> The 8 students who were able to answer that question and maybe four  
> or five more questions were assigned to an "advanced class." The  
> others were split into two groups. What happened here? Many of  
> these persons had lived in Austin for some time. Some for up to ten  
> years. Most had families. The families naturally used Spanish at  
> home, even their children who spoke English at school. They had  
> Spanish-speaking supervisors. They watched television in Spanish.  
> They ate at Mexican restaurants. They went to Spanish-speaking  
> doctors. 95% of their friends were Hispanic. In plain language, if  
> they wanted to stay at the cookie factory, making cookies, they  
> didn't need English, although the company preferred that they know  
> English for upward mobility. This program went on for three or four  
> months.The company merged and our program ended. We did not use  
> Spanish in class. In early training I use materials that I  
> developed based on some of the old "direct methods;" picture  
> flashcards, Cuisenaire rods, etc. and we also concentrated strongly  
> on English sounds, particularly listening and identification. The  
> program went surprisingly well and many of the students were very  
> disappointed when it ended. They had already found some new places  
> to go and some were acquiring English-speaking friends.
>
> So what is the good news? Several of our former students have  
> entered the Austin Community College AE program and are doing well.  
> One of them is in my class now. She has a child and often works at  
> night at the cookie factory. Sometimes she comes in looking very  
> tired, but she's surviving. She wants to be a Certified Nursing  
> Assistant. She'll make it! She plans to take the GED in English  
> next year and enter the Nursing Program at ACC. Most of her future  
> patients will not be bilingual and she will be ready for them.
>
> That's about it.
>
> Ted
> www.tedklein-ESL.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: andresmuro at aol.com
> To: assessment at nifl.gov
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 12:02 PM
> Subject: [Assessment 1153] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No  
> Questions or Comments?!
>
> Ted:
>
> How would the employer know the language that Julian took the GED in?
> In most states the certificate does not tell you the Language.  
> Texas is one of the few states that tells you the language.  
> However, it is so hard to find that most people wouldn't even know.  
> I have a hard time finding the language reference even though I  
> have seen millions of certificates. Fact is most employers don't  
> even know that people can take the GED in anything other than  
> English, don't ask and do not scrutinize certificates to figure out  
> scores, language, etc. A few might, but the majority don't. For low  
> literacy Spanish speakers it may take them a couple of years to be  
> ready to take the GED in Spanish. It make take them 2 more years to  
> be ready for the English GED. Would you rather hold them two more  
> years. They can take the GED in Spanish and continue to study  
> English. Once they have sufficient English, they can decide if they  
> want to take it in English or to move on to other things.
>
> Andres
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ted Klein <taklein at austin.rr.com>
> To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
> Sent: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 6:58 am
> Subject: [Assessment 1150] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No  
> Questions or Comments?!
>
> Jodi and Andres,
>
> There is one very real problem with taking the GED in Spanish that  
> I'm aware of. If you have two immigrants, Roberto and Ju?n, and  
> they both apply for the same job and if Ju?n took the GED in  
> Spanish and Roberto took it in English, guess who gets the job?
> Yes, life isn't fair, but most U.S. businesses prefer persons who  
> have gone "all the way" with English. My students and I have  
> discussed this and they have seen or know of this situation with  
> their friends and family members. That is why many AE students  
> remain longer in our ESL classes. Of course in many border towns,  
> this may not be as important since many of the employers are  
> Hispanic or are native speakers of English who are functional in  
> Spanish. However, many customers of the businesses will need to use  
> English.
>
> In my current class in Austin, Texas with eleven students, five  
> different languages are spoken. Should we offer the GED in Arabic,  
> Chinese, Korean, and Juba as well as Spanish?
>
>
> Ted
> www.tedklein-ESL.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: andresmuro at aol.com
> To: crandall at umbc.edu ; assessment at nifl.gov
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 5:21 PM
> Subject: [Assessment 1146] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No  
> Questions or Comments?!
>
> Jodi:
>
> The credit ESL program in the college is very academic. However it  
> provides students with financial aid and other goodies. We feel  
> that the students will not do well in a credit academic ESL program  
> until they have a level comparable to GED in their native language.  
> Also, a GED certificate is a way to demonstrate ability to benefit  
> to qualify for financial aid. Those students who get into the  
> credit ESL program without native language literacy don't do well.
>
> Students can attend other ESL classes in the community while they  
> are attending our classes. We stopped providing ESL because of  
> limited funding to provide what we would consider meaningful ESL.  
> Also, our Spanish GED program is fairly intensive and our students  
> would not have enough time to attend an additional program. We have  
> a few students who may be attending our classes and an ESL class  
> concurrently. Those are a minority
>
> The truth is that we started as an ESL literacy program many years  
> ago. There was virtually no funding for  literacy ESL unless it   
> had all kind of testing requirements. Also, it is very hard to  
> train teachers to be really good at ESL. The system that encourages  
> large number of untrained part timers prevents this from happening.
>
> I know that a lot of people in these listservs claim exemplary  
> service and illustrate  with examples of what they have done. I  
> don't doubt that  their claims are 100% true. However,  we are in  
> the minority. If I could get you and Heide and Elsa and Andy Nash  
> and Leonore and Deborah Schwartz, and Anson Green and Federico and  
> others to be my ESL teachers, I would have the best program in the  
> world. However, the fact is that in addition to the barriers that  
> ESL students face in their daily lives, plus the bureaucratic and  
> assessment barriers that the system creates for teachers and  
> students, plus the difficulty hiring and retaining highly qualified  
> ESL staff makes it very difficult to have a successful ESL program.
>
> I feel that until we get rid of WIA/NRS it will be tough to create  
> good stuff in a systematic way.
>
> Andres
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu>
> To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
> Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 1:27 pm
> Subject: [Assessment 1141] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No  
> Questions or Comments?!
>
> Andres,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It is great that you provide Spanish language literacy and GED  
> classes for
>
>
>
> your students.  There's no question that native language literacy
>
>
>
> contributes not just to the development of the first language, but  
> also to
>
>
>
> English language development when students take oral ESL classes.   
> There
>
>
>
> is some research in this area by Michele Burtoff with Haitians in  
> the U.S.
>
>
>
> and there is a lot of research (see especially research by David  
> Ramirez
>
>
>
> which compares children who had 6, 3 or no years of bilingual  
> education)
>
>
>
> that shows that providing bilingual education not only has all the
>
>
>
> benefits that would be expected, but students also achieve in  
> English as
>
>
>
> well or better than those who only had instruction in English.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> We also found that Spanish GED classes had large numbers of  
> students at
>
>
>
> the colleges, since students who take the GED in Spanish are able to
>
>
>
> bypass the need for extensive ESL just to get this credential.   
> They might
>
>
>
> want to take ESL as well, but the desire for the GED is often for
>
>
>
> work-related reasons.  I'm not clear on why you ask students to  
> wait until
>
>
>
> after they have passed the GED to take ESL classes.  Can you tell us a
>
>
>
> little more about that?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Of course not all students who enroll in adult ESL are Spanish  
> speakers
>
>
>
> and there may not be enough who speak any language to provide literacy
>
>
>
> classes for them in their own language, but programs might try to  
> partner
>
>
>
> with immigrant or refugee-related community-based organizations which
>
>
>
> could reach more students and also identify someone to provide the
>
>
>
> instruction.  Still, there will  be students who will not be able  
> to take
>
>
>
> literacy classes in their own languages and for them, a separate ESL
>
>
>
> literacy class seems to be the best option.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It would be great to hear from others about their experiences both  
> with
>
>
>
> first language (Spanish and other languages) literacy classes,  
> Spanish GED
>
>
>
> classes, and literacy ESL classes.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> How do you place students in your literacy classes?  Do you use a
>
>
>
> standardized test or do you have informal ways of determining if  
> someone
>
>
>
> would be better served in a literacy ESL class?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jodi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >  Problem is that in many ESL people are placed in ESL classes  
> based on an
>
>
>
> > English placement multiple choice test. A student with advanced  
> education
>
>
>
> > in L1 and one with little education in L1 may know very little  
> English
>
>
>
> > and they may both be placed in the same level. The student with  
> advance
>
>
>
> > education will progress much faster than the one with little  
> education.
>
>
>
> > The advanced L1 student will understand concepts like sentence,
>
>
>
> > paragraph, verb, subject, direct object, adjective, composition  
> and essay
>
>
>
> > readily. The one with with little education will need to  
> understand these
>
>
>
> > concepts. It takes a while for people to master these concepts. A  
> highly
>
>
>
> > educated L2? learner will likely progress faster academically in  
> a second
>
>
>
> > language than a fluent native speaker of that? language with limited
>
>
>
> > academic education, for the same reason. This is observed  
> regularly in
>
>
>
> > universities all over the US. highly educated foreign students who
>
>
>
> > acquired English as L2 recently will do better than their Eng
>
>
>
> >  lish speaking counterparts in academic tasks in English. Jim  
> Cummins has
>
>
>
> > articulated this clearly with his BICS and CALPS.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > In our program at El Paso Community College we have found  
> evidence of
>
>
>
> > this. We stopped doing literacy ESL a while back for this reason.  
> The
>
>
>
> > college has an academic ESL program. Instead of doing ESL  
> literacy we
>
>
>
> > started offering Spanish Literacy and GED many years ago since  
> the vast
>
>
>
> > majority of our students are Spanish speakers. Once our students  
> acquire
>
>
>
> > their Spanish GED they transition into the ESL program and do  
> better than
>
>
>
> > those students who don't have L1 academic skills. Even if takes  
> them a
>
>
>
> > while to acquire the L1 literacy, they will do better. Those with  
> no L1
>
>
>
> > literacy often stay in ESL forever and they drop out, start again in
>
>
>
> > another program, drop out and continue the same pattern. I think  
> that this
>
>
>
> > happens because of the mixture of academically ready students and  
> those
>
>
>
> > that are not ready, since most ESL programs focus on traditional
>
>
>
> > academics. For L1 low literacy students to be able to progress in  
> L2 there
>
>
>
> > has to be a program specifically designed for them that teache
>
>
>
> >  s skills in L2 in new and innovative ways without interference from
>
>
>
> > academically skilled L1 students. Right now we don't have a  
> system that
>
>
>
> > systematically does this, and the WIA/NRS system prevents this form
>
>
>
> > happening.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Hope that this makes sense,
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Andres
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
>
>
> > From: Jackie Coelho <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>
>
>
>
> > To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
>
>
>
> > Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 5:01 am
>
>
>
> > Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No  
> Questions or
>
>
>
> > Comments?!
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Forrest,
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > ?? I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy
>
>
>
> > background and those without. These two groups have such  
> different needs.
>
>
>
> > Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet  
> the needs
>
>
>
> > of either group well and I find that often the stronger students  
> dominate
>
>
>
> > the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the  
> instructor
>
>
>
> > does not keep up with the students who are learning at a faster  
> rate, they
>
>
>
> > often become frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However,  
> if the
>
>
>
> > instructor keeps up with those students, the others are unable to  
> keep up
>
>
>
> > and they get frustrated.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > ? I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And  
> regardless of
>
>
>
> > how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Jackie
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > ?
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a  
> factor in
>
>
>
> > student performance:
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > ?
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more  
> highly
>
>
>
> > educated students do better in terms of ?persistence, learning  
> gains, and
>
>
>
> > transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this.  
> Regrettably
>
>
>
> > we found very little hard data about how much difference prior  
> education
>
>
>
> > makes, because too few programs track the level of prior  
> education of
>
>
>
> > their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do  
> this? That
>
>
>
> > is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior  
> education
>
>
>
> > makes? Or any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in  
> prior
>
>
>
> > education that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are
>
>
>
> > completely illiterate, students who at least reached high school,  
> high
>
>
>
> > school graduates, college graduates, etc. -- ?or is level of prior
>
>
>
> > education pretty much of a continuum?
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > ?
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between  
> highly
>
>
>
> > educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably  
> students
>
>
>
> > with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the  
> lower
>
>
>
> > level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are  
> (almost by
>
>
>
> > definition) ?in the business of teaching basic literacy and  
> sometimes
>
>
>
> > math. Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap"  
> exist at
>
>
>
> > these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels,  
> would it be
>
>
>
> > desirable to place less highly educated students in separate  
> classes from
>
>
>
> > those with more education and adjust the curriculum/support  
> systems for
>
>
>
> > them accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language  
> literacy" or
>
>
>
> > the Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with  
> these
>
>
>
> > approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of
>
>
>
> > "bi-lingual education" that should be tried?
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > ?
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because  
> the
>
>
>
> > people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of
>
>
>
> > immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates  
> large
>
>
>
> > numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that  
> means),
>
>
>
> > ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very little  
> education
>
>
>
> > in their native countries and too little money to serve them. ?So  
> anyone
>
>
>
> > who has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could  
> help us a
>
>
>
> > lot by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > ?
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Forrest Chisman
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Vice President
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > CAAL
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > ?
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > ??
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
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> > ?
>
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
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>
>
> > From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On
>
>
>
> > Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
>
>
>
> > To: The Assessment Discussion List
>
>
>
> > Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No  
> Questions or
>
>
>
> > Comments?!
>
>
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> >
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> > ?
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> >
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> >
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> >
>
>
>
> > Hi Jackie,
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be  
> what my
>
>
>
> > former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual  
> education
>
>
>
> > in the K-12 school system.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Tina
>
>
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> >
>
>
>
> > Tina Luffman
>
>
>
> > Coordinator, Developmental Education
>
>
>
> > Verde Valley Campus
>
>
>
> > 928-634-6544
>
>
>
> > tina_luffman at yc.edu
>
>
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> >
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> >
>
>
>
> > "Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>
>
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> >
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> >
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> > 02/05/2008 11:13 AM
>
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
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>
>
> > Please respond to
>
>
>
> > The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
>
>
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> >
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> >
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> > To
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> >
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> >
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>
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> >
>
>
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> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>
>
>
> >
>
>
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> >
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> >
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>
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> > cc
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> >
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> >
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> > Subject
>
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> >
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> >
>
>
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> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or ? ? ?
>
>
>
> > ?Comments?!
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
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> >
>
>
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> > ?
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> >
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> >
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> >
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>
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> >
>
>
>
> > Hi Tina,
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > This has been researched already and is the basis for the  
> arguement in
>
>
>
> > favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not  
> implemented in
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > the best way. For many years people have known that a good  
> foundation
>
>
>
> > in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a  
> second
>
>
>
> > or third language.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not
>
>
>
> > written.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Jackie
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >> Hi list members,
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar  
> to that
>
>
>
> >> of
>
>
>
> >> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the  
> country
>
>
>
> >> they
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather  
> quickly
>
>
>
> >> and
>
>
>
> >> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their  
> country
>
>
>
> >> or
>
>
>
> >> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >> advancement.
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >> This experience relates well to research done among Native American
>
>
>
> >> tribes
>
>
>
> >> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
>
>
>
> >> literacy
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than  
> those who
>
>
>
> >> tried
>
>
>
> >> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in  
> their own
>
>
>
> >> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning  
> Spanish. The
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were  
> much
>
>
>
> >> easier
>
>
>
> >> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps  
> this is
>
>
>
> >> something deserving more research.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >> Tina
>
>
>
> >> Tina Luffman
>
>
>
> >> Coordinator, Developmental Education
>
>
>
> >> Verde Valley Campus
>
>
>
> >> 928-634-6544
>
>
>
> >> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>
>
>
>
> >> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
>
>
>
> >> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
>
>
>
> >> Comments?!
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >> Warning: (not named).
>
>
>
> >> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s)  
> for more
>
>
>
> >> information.
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about  
> three
>
>
>
> >> years)
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
>
>
>
> >> particularly if
>
>
>
> >> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the  
> slowest, if at
>
>
>
> >> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first  
> language. I
>
>
>
> >> would
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a
>
>
>
> >> student
>
>
>
> >> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed  
> because
>
>
>
> >> he/she
>
>
>
> >> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do  
> is try
>
>
>
> >> to
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
>
>
>
> >> concept
>
>
>
> >> in a second language.
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research  
> don't play
>
>
>
> >> a
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers  
> (transitioned
>
>
>
> >> from
>
>
>
> >> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
>
>
>
> >> classes).
>
>
>
> >> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow  
> advancement.
>
>
>
> >> It's
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
>
>
>
> >> teachers.
>
>
>
> >> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is  
> encouraging
>
>
>
> >> me
>
>
>
> >> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I  
> think we're
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >> making some progress.
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >> ________________________________
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
>
>
>
> >> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>
>
>
> >> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >> Hello everyone,
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >> I'm so surprised! ?No one has anything to comment on regarding your
>
>
>
> >> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? ?I was  
> very
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of  
> issues that
>
>
>
> >> Dr.
>
>
>
> >> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research: ?a lack of  
> intensity
>
>
>
> >> of
>
>
>
> >> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few  
> opportunities
>
>
>
> >> for
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >> professional development.
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>
>
>
> >> student
>
>
>
> >> from advancing? ?What do you try to do about that?
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >> Please post your questions and comments now.
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >> Thanks!
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >> Marie Cora
>
>
>
> >> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >> Marie Cora
>
>
>
> >> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>
>
>
> >> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>
>
>
> >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>
>
>
> >> intended
>
>
>
> >> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>
>
>
> >> addressed.
>
>
>
> >> If you have received this email in error please notify the system
>
>
>
> >> manager.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >> This message contains confidential information and is intended  
> only for
>
>
>
> >> the
>
>
>
> >> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
>
>
>
> >> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >> -------------------------------
>
>
>
> >> National Institute for Literacy
>
>
>
> >> Assessment mailing list
>
>
>
> >> Assessment at nifl.gov
>
>
>
> >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >> -------------------------------
>
>
>
> >> National Institute for Literacy
>
>
>
> >> Assessment mailing list
>
>
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> >
>
>
>
> >> Assessment at nifl.gov
>
>
>
> >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
> > -------------------------------
>
>
>
> > National Institute for Literacy
>
>
>
> > Assessment mailing list
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Assessment at nifl.gov
>
>
>
> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>
>
>
> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > -------------------------------
>
>
>
> > National Institute for Literacy
>
>
>
> > Assessment mailing list
>
>
>
> > Assessment at nifl.gov
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>
>
>
> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > -------------------------------
>
>
>
> > National Institute for Literacy
>
>
>
> > Assessment mailing list
>
>
>
> > Assessment at nifl.gov
>
>
>
> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>
>
>
> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>
>
> > Email delivered to andresmuro at aol.com
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >  
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> __
>
>
>
> > More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
>
>
>
> > http://webmail.aol.com
>
>
>
> > -------------------------------
>
>
>
> > National Institute for Literacy
>
>
>
> > Assessment mailing list
>
>
>
> > Assessment at nifl.gov
>
>
>
> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>
>
>
> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>
>
> > Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
>
>
>
> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>
>
>
> Professor, Education Department
>
>
>
> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
>
>
>
> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/ 
> Bilingual
>
>
>
> Education
>
>
>
> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
>
>
>
> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
>
>
>
> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
>
>
>
> email: crandall at umbc.edu
>
>
>
> www.umbc.edu/llc/
>
>
>
> www.umbc.edu/esol/
>
>
>
> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
>
>
>
> National Institute for Literacy
>
>
>
> Assessment mailing list
>
>
>
> Assessment at nifl.gov
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>
>
>
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>
>
> Email delivered to andresmuro at aol.com
> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com
> -------------------------------
>
> National Institute for Literacy
>
> Assessment mailing list
>
> Assessment at nifl.gov
>
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
> Email delivered to andresmuro at aol.com
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor and Director
Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
University of Maryland Baltimore County
1000 Hilltop Circle
Baltimore, MD 21250
tel:  410-455-2313
fax: 410-455-8947
eml: crandall at umbc.edu




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From jhalaesl at aol.com  Fri Feb  8 11:50:59 2008
From: jhalaesl at aol.com (jhalaesl at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 11:50:59 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1186] Re: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <001f01c86a69$364ee6b0$a2ecb410$@net>
References: <CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B2E@exchr.raritanval.edu>	<007201c86a04$26b41a50$741c4ef0$@net>	<CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B3C@exchr.raritanval.edu>
	<001f01c86a69$364ee6b0$a2ecb410$@net>
Message-ID: <8CA3889EA7B2E7B-1014-2817@webmailbeta-m10.sysops.aol.com>


 Not always the reason for an LEA-to-local college turnover of those federal and state adult ed funds
In my experience, it has simply and sadly been the result of limited resources and insufficient funds.
And in some areas a CBO (not an LEA) manages those grant programs, offers classes free to the lowest literacy ESL/ESOL students, and is never able to fully bridge the gap between very part-time instruction and college.

One key element to our small successes has been having colleagues in each institution (local college, LEA, CBO, gov't DOE/DOL) who understand the dynamics and the gaps. Granted, most are still limited by the systems in which they work and to which they must be accountable. But there is still much to be said for permitting ourselves some case-by-case thinking, making those simple phone calls, and asking.

Joanne Hala
Literacy Serrvices
Jointure for Community Adult Education, Inc.



?ve heard an increasing number of stories about
areas were the LEA runs the federal/state ?adult education ESL grant program
and has asked the local college to take it over (because the LEA has concluded
it?s an ?adult? program). Have there been any rumblings of
that in your area?

 


 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net>
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List' <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 10:42 am
Subject: [Assessment 1179] Re: (no subject)

























Kevin,



?



Thanks for the explanation. I find it VERY useful. It?s a
very interesting model. I?m not surprised that your students are motivated
for college, because they?ve signed up for a college prep track! What worries
me are the limited aspirations of many lower level ESL students who may have college
potential. 



?



I understand now why you don?t have the resources to operate
a more comprehensive program. I?ve heard an increasing number of stories about
areas were the LEA runs the federal/state ?adult education ESL grant program
and has asked the local college to take it over (because the LEA has concluded
it?s an ?adult? program). Have there been any rumblings of
that in your area?



?



Best of luck in your good work.



?



Forrest ???



?









From:
assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf
Of Hinkle, Robert

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 9:42 AM

To: The Assessment Discussion List; The Assessment Discussion List

Subject: [Assessment 1174] Re: (no subject)









?









I believe we do have a hard time getting enough students fed into
our program and with the appropriate background to succeed if they do come to
us. It is a real problem. There are some workplace ESL programs which are run
through our Corporate and Continuing Education Office, but those students
rarely, if ever, come to us. And they serve the employees of specific companies
as opposed to the community at large. 









?









Our
ESL program is within an academic department in the college (Communication and
Languages) and so is run like every other. ESL students pay the same tuition
and fees as all other students at the college. We do not receive special
government funding beyond what the state and counties provide for the college
as a?whole as a part of our yearly budget.









?









Finances
are probably a big reason why we are getting fewer students at the low levels.
Community programs are free or low cost; although in the scheme of higher
education, the community college is less expensive, it may still be out of
reach of many students. 









?









In
terms of having a more comprehensive program, we are limited by a small staff,
and the unlikelihood of being able to expand given college budgeting
restraints. In addition, our three full-time faculty members (including myself)
not only teach 15 credit hours per semester but also do the administrative work
required. We do advising, scheduling, and the many other tasks associate with
keeping the program afloat. The only "official" administrative
support for the program is through the 3 hours of overload I receive to serve
as Adjunct Coordinator. 









?









The
belief that they can attend college does not seem to be a problem with our
population although I can certainly see that it could be. A growing problem for
us (and many around the country) is the disconnect between high schools and
colleges in terms of student preparation. Either the high schools do not think
the students are college-bound and so don't bother to give them a college-prep
course of study, or there is simply a growing gap between the expectations of
each. Additionally, students seem to think that a high school diploma equates
to college readiness.









?









We
do our best to advise students, but we don't always have enough time - and as
professors primarily - may not know ourselves what all of the options for
students are. 









?















Kevin 












?













From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of
Forrest Chisman

Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 10:38 PM

To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'

Subject: [Assessment 1172] Re: (no subject)









Dear Kevin,



?



Many thanks for providing all of us with a profile of your
program. Seeing the variety of college program goals and designs is extremely
valuable in stimulating ideas about how to do a better job in delivering ESL.



?



Personally, I think that it is perfectly valid for colleges to
elect to offer solely pre-academic ESL at the non-credit level. But it does
prompt the concern about whether other programs in the college?s service
area are providing non-academic ESL to large enough numbers of students and at
a high enough quality to ?feed? the college program ? as well
as how well their efforts articulate with yours. I wonder whether this troubles
you, and if so whether/how you have addressed the issue. ?Frankly, I think
one reason why many colleges offer comprehensive ESL programs is that they
would prefer to ?make? pre-academic students themselves, rather
than rely on others to do it. Another reason, of course, if that they may not
be eligible for federal/state grant money unless they offer comprehensive
programs. Does your college receive these funds to support its pre-academic
program? If not, how is it supported financially?



?



I heartily agree that helping students set realistic goals and
understand their options is essential. I believe, however, that encouraging
students to expand their goals as they succeed is also essential. For example,
many immigrants come from countries where going to college is the privilege of
very few, and thus may consider that an unrealistic goal ?unless they are
encouraged to take the steps necessary (often one step at a time). The problem
seems to be that it is hard for most programs to find the resources to provide
very much guidance of any of these kinds to most students. I wonder if anyone
has any solutions to THAT issue. 



?



In any event, many thanks for fleshing out an interesting model.
?



?



Forrest ????



?









From:
assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf
Of Hinkle, Robert

Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:19 PM

To: assessment at nifl.gov

Subject: [Assessment 1148] (no subject)









?









Hi All,









?









I have been reading most of the discussion comments and wanted to
address a few issues. First, however, I'll give a summary of our program. 









?









I
teach ESL at Raritan Valley Community College in New Jersey. Our program serves
approximately 350 students from diverse language backgrounds. Our program
offers two pre-academic levels of all skills ESL instruction (a six hour per
week non-credit class). In addition, we have 5 levels of academic ESL
preparation divided into three courses?- Reading/Writing, Grammar, and
Speaking/Listening). Our highest level Reading/Writing course gives successful
students 6 elective credits that count towards RVCC graduation, but those
credits do not transfer. Our semesters are 15 weeks. If a student misses 20% of
any class, the instructor may withdraw that student (they are not, however,
obliged to withdraw these students). At the moment, the late enrollment policy
is that students may register for a course prior to the second week of class
but not thereafter. Research, of course, indicates that students who begin a
class late have a much higher rate of failure than those who begin on time. 









?









In
our program, we have three full-time faculty and approximately 16-18 adjuncts. 









?









We
have focused our program on academic prep ESL because we are a small program
with limited resources, and we have a very difficult time finding qualified
adjuncts. Also, a significant majority of our students?have signalled
their intention?to obtain a college degree. Moreover, there are community
programs that offer basic English skills although there is often a long waiting
list to obtain the services. In other issues, we use the Accuplacer ESL test
for placement and have in-house standardized tests at the end of each level of
grammar and reading/writing









?









Within
our classes, highly educated non-native speakers usually progress much more
quickly. One of the most challenging groups is students who graduated from
local high schools but still have inadequate English skills - and not
infrequently, weak academic skills in general. One of the strategies that I
would personally wish for is real communication between K-12 and community
colleges so that students get the language skills they need before they enter
college. I understand that there is great pressure to move students out of ESL
in many school districts, but ultimately, it does a huge disservice both
financially and in terms of motivation to students whose skills remain more
BICS than CALP. 









?









I
agree with those who suggest that first language literacy issues should be
addressed before students enter ESL. However, it becomes complicated to find
funding and support for such efforts. In my experience, students with low level
literacy skills become frustrated and are not ultimately successful?-
probably by any definition. I am uncomfortable with the idea that they are
spending hard-earned money when the chances for success in ESL are minimal. We
advise students that the program is academically-oriented; often they have
little understanding of what that means. 









?









I
do not agree with the suggestion that the bar be lowered so that students with
low-intermediate skills be allowed in credit classes (at least at my college).
Historically, other faculty have little experience handling language issues and
are very unhappy when students cannot read, write and converse at an
appropriate level of English. They end up feeling helpless. Students may pass
classes; however, I suspect that instructors do not want to deal with the
challenges and so turn a blind eye and let them through. Recently, there has
been a problem in the nursing department with non-native English speaking
students not passing board exams because they enter the college from other
programs and circumvent ESL with us. They have trouble reading and answering
questions on the exam. This is a significant problem because nursing programs
are judged in terms of the?success of their students on these standardized
exams. 









?









I
think the measure of success should be based on a realistic assessment of
student goals combined with a real-life discussion of the possibilities and
limitations. Ideally, students would have incremental goals so that success
could build. If the goals for students with low literacy levels are not
carefully discussed and planned, then they will likely encounter more failure
than success because their expectaions will be unrealistic. The more we have
the opportunity to talk to students, the more likely it is that they can
develop short-term goals that are within their reach. Unfortunately, we have no
control over the myriad of complications that accrue in their every day lives. 









?









Apologies
for the length.









?















Kevin Hinkle, Ph.D.









Assistant
Professor of ESL/Adjunct Coordinator















 





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From crandall at umbc.edu  Fri Feb  8 12:02:57 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (Jodi Crandall)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:02:57 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1187] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B3E@exchr.raritanval.edu>
References: <C3CE4BCC.8F31%usha_narayanan@fuhsd.org><52294.130.85.83.224.1202268183.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><001e01c868c8$49636de0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75><49507.130.85.83.224.1202328350.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><007e01c86927$0ca72220$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
	<50639.138.88.30.77.1202391909.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
	<CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B3E@exchr.raritanval.edu>
Message-ID: <53D57C79-3DCE-41E2-907F-712B37492670@umbc.edu>

Kevin,

Unfortunately, social promotion is always a danger.

Since your standardized exams for reading/writing and grammar classes  
have proved to be so helpful in helping students to be in classes at  
the right level, are you thinking of developing a listening/speaking  
test as well?

I wonder whether any other programs have developed or identified a  
listening/speaking test that they could describe or recommend?

Jodi
On Feb 8, 2008, at 10:03 AM, Hinkle, Robert wrote:

> Jodi,
>
> At Raritan Valley since my arrival five years ago, we have put in  
> place homemade standardized exit exams for grammar and reading/ 
> writing classes at each level so that we have some way of ensuring  
> that students with different instructors enter the next level with  
> approximately the same skill level. We did that because many  
> instructors engaged in social promotion. The exit exams have  
> improved the consistency of the program and helped even out the  
> skill level within classes.
>
> We still have the social promotion problem with the listening/ 
> speaking classe because there is no standardized assessment, and  
> instructors sometimes pass students who really do not have the  
> requisite level. In fact, some students have complained that the  
> listening/speaking courses are a waste of time because they have  
> classmates in an upper level class who have great difficulty speaking.
>
> Even though we have course outlines with clearly defined learning  
> outcomes, my experience has taught me to be wary of the open-ended  
> concept of professional wisdom. That sometimes morphs into a  
> misguided belief that passing unprepared students is somehow  
> constructive.
>
> Kevin
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 8:45 AM
> To: The Assessment Discussion List
> Subject: [Assessment 1149] Re: Observation checklist
>
> Ted,
>
> Did you use an oral proficiency interview at the Defense Language
> Institute?  If so, how log did it take to administer to each  
> student?  I
> think time is a real barrier to most adult ESL/ESOL programs.   
> Thus, they
> use tests that can be administered to students as a group and easily
> evaluated.
>
> For some college programs for international students, a whole range of
> tests are used for placement, including a writing sample, a reading  
> test,
> and an oral interview.  Clearly that's more possible with smaller  
> numbers
> of students who are also paying for the classes.
>
> What do you think is needed in the way of tests?  In Passing the  
> Torch,
> Forrest and I point to assessment as a major issue facing all the  
> colleges
> we studied.  We recommend the development of a test of all four skills
> that, if possible, could be administered and scored in a reasonable  
> amount
> of time.
>
> Have you tried the BEST Plus test?  What has been your experience with
> that test?
>
> I agree that for placement at literacy levels, a simple test  
> developed by
> a program might be sufficient.
>
> I also think that for progress through the levels, student  
> achievement in
> the previous class, as judged by the instructor ("professional  
> wisdom"),
> is still the best determiner of whether a student is ready to go to  
> the
> next level.
>
> Jodi
>
>
> > Jodi,
> >
> > Same here! As long as the BEST Test is used to show gains, I'm  
> afraid that
> > there isn't much chance that REAL gains could be charted and  
> compared. It
> > is used too often to measure progress and is not as good for that  
> purpose
> > as one would hope. Really valid proficiency tests are the only  
> way to
> > prove the point. Achievement tests don't tell much in terms of  
> overall
> > progress. I would also guess that it would take a minimum of 120  
> hours of
> > solid training to have a measureable level with any test that one  
> could
> > play numbers with. Other factors including attendance, etc. would  
> have to
> > be factored in. Adults have families and jobs in the way of total
> > dedication to attendance. Also, one would have to have a test in  
> which
> > human judgment would play a small role. The BEST is fine for its  
> original
> > purpose, which was to place persons with others at their same  
> levels of
> > communication. Good measurement is the only way to prove  
> anything. I often
> > rely on plain old gut instincts to figure how things are really  
> going. I
> > know that's not very scientific.
> >
> > Cheers,  Ted
> > www.tedklein-ESL.com
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
> > To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:05 PM
> > Subject: [Assessment 1138] Re: Observation checklist
> >
> >
> > Hi, Ted.  Glad to make contact again.
> >
> > I definitely agree that smaller classes are more likely to bring  
> learner
> > gains, especially in language, since students will have more  
> opportunity
> > to speak when there are fewer students.  I didn't know about the DLI
> > policy, but it is a good one.  The problem with adult ESL  
> classes, I fear,
> > is that there is such limited money available that programs would  
> find it
> > difficult to keep class size to these numbers.
> >
> > Has anyone tried to reduce class size and chart the learning  
> gains?  If
> > so, please share with us all.  It might be that this would be a good
> > investment.  If students in smaller classes make faster gains,  
> then there
> > would be more spaces available as these students transitioned to  
> other
> > classes or the workforce.
> >
> > Jodi
> >
> > Hi Jodi,
> >>
> >> Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times in  
> the
> >> past,
> >> I think at least once when you visited the Defense Language  
> Institute
> >> English Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I
> >> mention
> >> DLI is that it represents a language program with little leeway  
> to fail.
> >> I
> >> spent 20 years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is to  
> train
> >> allied and friendly military personnel worldwide in general and
> >> specialized English. Most students start ESL in their home  
> countries
> >> with
> >> DLIELC personnel advising, and in some cases teaching, in these  
> overseas
> >> military language centers. It may still be the largest language  
> program
> >> in
> >> the world. Students after reaching certain levels go to Lackland  
> Air
> >> Force
> >> Base in San Antonio, complete their general English, usually go  
> through
> >> specialized terminology and then on to whatever training their  
> country
> >> needs with the U.S. military. Students have run the full gamut from
> >> recruits and NCO's up to generals and admirals. This is a very  
> tightly
> >> organized "well-packaged" language program with predictable  
> training
> >> times
> >> and results.
> >>
> >> Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb while  
> I was at
> >> at DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum.  
> This was
> >> rarely broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters' bean
> >> counter would calculate that if a mere two or three students  
> could be
> >> added to a class, voila, look at the money we would save! This  
> money
> >> came
> >> both from foreign governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue and  
> then
> >> try
> >> it, I believe several times over the years. However, in an  
> organization
> >> that has a very effective testing system; both achievement and
> >> proficiency, it was soon noticed that the scores were going  
> down, just
> >> enough so that they could prove that no money was being saved on  
> teacher
> >> salaries and other expenses. I spent three years with the Royal  
> Thai
> >> Navy
> >> for DLI as language training advisor and remember having to  
> twist arms
> >> with the RTN Navy Education Department with the same problem. They
> >> wanted
> >> 15 in a class.
> >>
> >> Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during my  
> last
> >> eight years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes have
> >> consistently been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an
> >> organization is stuck with a low budget, make the hours of  
> training per
> >> week lower, but keep the class sizes within 10 or so students.  
> Fewer
> >> hours
> >> of really effective training are certainly better than large  
> classes
> >> where
> >> the student attention level and collegiality are reduced. I  
> remember
> >> Mary
> >> Finocchiaro saying years ago that she didn't care how many  
> students were
> >> in her classroom, she would teach them! Unfortunately, most of  
> us just
> >> aren't THAT dynamic.
> >>
> >> Cheers,  Ted
> >> www.tedklein-ESL.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
> >> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM
> >> Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist
> >>
> >>
> >> Usha,
> >>
> >> I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
> >> experience that with more than 10 students, learning decreases?   
> If so,
> >> how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be
> >> interested
> >> in ways to decrease class size.
> >>
> >> It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
> >> constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more
> >> important
> >> to involve them in activities in which all get to participate,  
> which
> >> means
> >> less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small  
> classes
> >> need that.
> >>
> >> What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?
> >>
> >> You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop  
> out of
> >> classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any of  
> you
> >> keep
> >> records of your students that would identify those who do  
> return?  Do
> >> you
> >> have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning  
> English
> >> outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know of  
> any
> >> research about adult English Language Learners in this area, but  
> there
> >> is
> >> an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State
> >> University
> >> following adult literacy level students for several years.  They  
> have
> >> identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside  
> of the
> >> classroom and also that some of these learners come back to classes
> >> after
> >> being out of them for some time.
> >>
> >> Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of  
> you been
> >> able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of  
> these
> >> services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have been  
> most
> >> effective? If you teach in a community college, have your  
> students had
> >> access to the various support services provided to other students?
> >>
> >> Several of you have talked about the differences in progress  
> made by
> >> students with more advanced education and those who are at literacy
> >> level.
> >>  Because literacy level students take longer in making progress,  
> most
> >> programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and
> >> literate
> >> beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and  
> literacy
> >> will
> >> need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to  
> talk about
> >> what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about
> >> persistence
> >> of literacy level students and their learning gains.
> >>
> >> Students with advanced education in their own language may be  
> able to
> >> have
> >> a condensed program since they are already experienced as  
> students and
> >> often have high motivation to get through English so that they  
> can take
> >> courses related to their previous or future career.  City  
> College of San
> >> Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters  
> worth of
> >> work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer  
> something along
> >> these lines?
> >>
> >> Jodi
> >>
> >>
> >>> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked  
> the tool
> >>> that
> >>> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope  
> that it
> >>> is
> >>> not
> >>> something that has already been asked and answered.
> >>>
> >>> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of  
> our ESL
> >>> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal  
> constraints
> >>> and
> >>> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a  
> positive
> >>> to
> >>> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we expect  
> to see
> >>> more
> >>> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the  
> numbers.
> >>>
> >>> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy  
> programs
> >>> because of many socio-economic factors.
> >>>
> >>> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing  
> market (in
> >>> past
> >>> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to  
> stay in
> >>> one
> >>> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen more in
> >>> people
> >>> who do not have high levels of education from their native  
> country).
> >>>
> >>> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from  
> their
> >>> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some  
> kind of
> >>> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs,  
> go in and
> >>> out
> >>> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of  
> various
> >>> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and have  
> no time
> >>> to
> >>> practice.
> >>>
> >>> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in  
> educational
> >>> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
> >>> availability
> >>> of  community resources.
> >>>
> >>> Usha Narayanan
> >>> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
> >>> California
> >>> 408-522-2737
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Marie,
> >>>>
> >>>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and  
> out of the
> >>>> U.S.A.
> >>>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc.  
> in ESL.
> >>>> It
> >>>> is
> >>>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that  
> I'm
> >>>> back
> >>>> in the
> >>>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the  
> Defense
> >>>> Language
> >>>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching  
> immigrants part
> >>>> time for
> >>>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin
> >>>> Community
> >>>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what  
> language
> >>>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to  
> work at a
> >>>> higher
> >>>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I
> >>>> apply
> >>>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy
> >>>> traps."
> >>>> I
> >>>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
> >>>> interested and
> >>>> it is published on my website at
> >>>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel  
> absolutely free
> >>>> to use
> >>>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank  
> you very
> >>>> much for
> >>>> the input. Questions are welcome.
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers,   Ted
> >>>>
> >>>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
> >>>>   Independent Consultant in Language
> >>>>          and Intercultural Training
> >>>>               14456 Agarita Road
> >>>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
> >>>>              Phone:512-266-1801
> >>>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
> >>>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi  Ted,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it
> >>>>> yourself?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you  
> deliberately try
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or  
> do others
> >>>>> you
> >>>>> work with?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the
> >>>>> students
> >>>>> advance?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Marie
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
> >>>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
> >>>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
> >>>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
> >>>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Marie,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ted
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
> >>>>>>  NO
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>    supportive personality?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>    other and the instructor?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>     target language  proficiency?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>     than push them?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>     exaggerated speech?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>     results?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ---- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hello  everyone,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on   
> regarding
> >>>>>>> your
> >>>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??   
> I was
> >>>>>>> very
> >>>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types  
> of issues
> >>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a  
> lack of
> >>>>>>> intensity
> >>>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
> >>>>>>> opportunities
> >>>>>>> for  professional development.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit  
> the ESL
> >>>>>>> student
> >>>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Marie  Cora
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Marie  Cora
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
> >>>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -------------------------------
> >>>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
> >>>>>>> Assessment mailing list
> >>>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
> >>>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings,  
> please go to
> >>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> >>>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -------------------------------
> >>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
> >>>>> Assessment mailing list
> >>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
> >>>>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings, please  
> go to
> >>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> >>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -------------------------------
> >>>> National Institute for Literacy
> >>>> Assessment mailing list
> >>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
> >>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> >>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> >>>> Email delivered to usha_narayanan at fuhsd.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Scanned by Barracuda Spam Firewall
> >>> -------------------------------
> >>> National Institute for Literacy
> >>> Assessment mailing list
> >>> Assessment at nifl.gov
> >>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> >>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> >>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> >> Professor, Education Department
> >> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
> >> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in
> >> ESOL/Bilingual
> >> Education
> >> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
> >> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
> >> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
> >> email: crandall at umbc.edu
> >> www.umbc.edu/llc/
> >> www.umbc.edu/esol/
> >> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -------------------------------
> >> National Institute for Literacy
> >> Assessment mailing list
> >> Assessment at nifl.gov
> >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> >> Email delivered to  
> taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
> >> National Institute for Literacy
> >> Assessment mailing list
> >> Assessment at nifl.gov
> >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> >> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> > Professor, Education Department
> > Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
> > Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/ 
> Bilingual
> > Education
> > University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
> > 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
> > ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
> > email: crandall at umbc.edu
> > www.umbc.edu/llc/
> > www.umbc.edu/esol/
> > www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------
> > National Institute for Literacy
> > Assessment mailing list
> > Assessment at nifl.gov
> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> > Email delivered to  
> taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
> > National Institute for Literacy
> > Assessment mailing list
> > Assessment at nifl.gov
> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> > Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
> >
>
>
> --
> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Professor, Education Department
> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/ 
> Bilingual
> Education
> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
> email: crandall at umbc.edu
> www.umbc.edu/llc/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to rhinkle at raritanval.edu
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

-------------- next part --------------
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From Noa.Sadan at montgomerycollege.edu  Fri Feb  8 11:59:57 2008
From: Noa.Sadan at montgomerycollege.edu (Sadan, Noa)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:59:57 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1188] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
	orComments?!
In-Reply-To: <E2479819-EE54-483B-9EEE-7C2FD6CB7F41@umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <A1FACE81B7C82147B9CE6822E2D4A701022A24F8@MCMAIL2.mcnte.mc.cc.md.us>

Jodi,
 
The classroom mix of the highly educated literate students who didn't
know English with the literacy level beginning English students was
often a challenge. The first (unstated) task was to help the educated
students realize that they might learn a great deal from those who
picked up oral language faster than they did. 
 
Techniques for dealing with the mixed levels:
    The Key: fostering a sense of community within the class
    Main technique: Group work - teacher as enabler, moving around the
groups

*	        extra reading help in reading given while class was
working on either written assignments or group projects
*	        groups were mixed

	*	            always by language
	*	            occasionally by gender
	*	            rarely by ability (only when reading lessons
specifically for the literacy group were held)

    School Job: The Refugee Center has a working Snack Bar, and Boutique
(donated clothing - everything sells for fifty cents/item).

*	         students polish their abilty to work together
*	        students learn chain of command (literacy level students
are supervisors just as often as the highly educated, since they often
have a verbal advantage)
*	         literacy-level students could make coffee, serve as a
cashier, and give excellent customer service
*	        a highly educated accountant who cannot get out an
English sentence orally, could create a cost-accounting spreadsheet see
if it was less expensive to buy bulk sugar or packets for coffee.

Other projects are used as well - making recipe books, making student
profile books. Today, with the use of the computer, the possibilities
are endless for activities for mixed classes.
 
Noa
   

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 12:59 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1152] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
orComments?!


Noa, 

Thanks for sharing this.  How wonderful to have had 20 hours per week
for these students.  Besides mutual respect (which is very important),
were there ways in which students could use their complementary skills
to help each other.  If you could describe some of the activities that
you or others used that were helpful, that would be great.

If others of you could share your experiences with mixed classes, and
how you coped with them, I think a lot of us would be interested.

The change to separate Listening, Reading and "Homeroom" classes is also
a very interesting way of meeting the needs of this diverse population.
I know that many community colleges separate their instruction in adult
ESL to oral language skills (Listening/Speaking) and written language
(Reading/Writing) skills.  Are there others out there who could share
your experiences in this regard?

The presence of World English speakers and Generation 1.5 speakers in
adult ESL has further complicated the situation.  I'd be interested in
knowing how  others  have dealt with such diverse students in adult
ESL/ESOL.

Jodi


 
n Feb 7, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Sadan, Noa wrote: 


	Years ago, the Montgomery County Refugee Training Program
(Montgomery
	College, Silver Spring, MD)had highly educated people with no
English,
	in class with literacy level students. It was certainly
difficult
	meeting the needs of all students, but in this intensive
20-hours/week
	program, a tremendous mutual respect was fostered between the
groups.
	Typically, the highly educated students raced ahead with reading
and
	writing, while the literacy students sped ahead with oral
language. The
	Somali mother of nine would say to the Russian engineer, "I wish
I could
	read and write like you!", while the Russian woman would reply,
"I wish
	I could speak like you."

	All this ended with a slightly different solution. The Refugee
Center,
	then under the direction of Donna Kinerney, divided that school
day into
	separate Listening,Reading and "Homeroom" classes. Homerooom
took in all
	skills, plus the introduction to the American workplace. This
model was
	in place when we began to get World English speakers who were
not
	literate. It provided a solution in which they could study in a
	literacy-level reading/writing class, and interact in a higher
level
	Listening and Homeroom class. 

	-----Original Message-----
	From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
	On Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
	Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM
	To: The Assessment Discussion List
	Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No
Questions or
	Comments?!

	Jackie and Forrest,

	I think most large programs separate literacy level students
from others
	who are at a beginning level.  I know that back in the 1980s
when there
	were large refugee ESL programs, several community colleges
created
	parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels and even into
intermediate
	levels, with one set of classes for students with limited
literacy or
	prior schooling and another for more educated students.  The
reason was
	that the students with less education made slower progress.
Some of
	this is undoubtedly due to the way in which we teach English
(requiring
	literacy), but it is also because students need to become
accustomed to
	attending classes, learning to hold and use a pen or pencil, and
a wide
	range of basic skills that come with being a student in a class.

	Those of you who have separate classes for those who need
literacy:
	Can
	you tell us what kind of classes or program you provide?

	Those who teach both literacy and more educated learners in the
same
	class:  Can you let us know how you manage?  What are some ways
in which
	you accommodate both sets of needs?

	Jodi

		Forrest,
		   I like the idea of separate classes for those with a
literacy 
		background and those without. These two groups have such
different 
		needs. Having both in the class make it difficult for a
teacher to 
		meet the needs of either group well and I find that
often the stronger


		students dominate the class, and their drive push the
teacher forward.


		If the instructor does not keep up with the students who
are learning 
		at a faster rate, they often become frustrated and leave
or mentally 
		check out. However, if the instructor keeps up with
those students, 
		the others are unable to keep up and they get
frustrated.
		  I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out.
And regardless


		of how you do it, well-trained instructors are
essential.
		Jackie


		On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net>
wrote:


			 To all of you who commented on level of prior
education as a factor 
			in student performance:



			Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked
believes that more 
			highly educated students do better in terms of
persistence, learning


			gains, and transitions. And learning theory
would lead us to expect 
			this.
			Regrettably
			we found very little hard data about how much
difference prior 
			education makes, because too few programs track
the level of prior 
			education of their students and correlate it
with outcomes. DO any of


			you do this? That is, do you have any data on
HOW MUCH difference 
			level of prior education makes?
			Or
			any strong impressions? And are there "cut
points" in prior education


			that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students
who are completely 
			illiterate, students who at least reached high
school, high school 
			graduates, college graduates, etc. --  or is
level of prior education


			pretty much of a continuum?



			More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow
the gap between 
			highly educated students and those with less
prior education? 
			Presumably students with very low levels of
education are more likely


			end up in the lower level ESL courses (Literacy
or Low-Beginning 
			levels) why are (almost by
			definition)  in the business of teaching basic
literacy and sometimes


			math.
			Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does
the "gap" exist at 
			these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At
any levels, would it


			be desirable to place less highly educated
students in separate 
			classes from those with more education and
adjust the 
			curriculum/support systems for them accordingly?
Some programs have 
			tried "native language literacy" or the Spanish
GED. What has been 
			the experience of any of you with these
approaches? Any other ideas? 
			IS there an adult ESL equivalent of "bi-lingual
education" that 
			should be tried?



			It seems to me that we need to come up with
better ideas. Because the


			people who study immigration tell us that the
level of education of 
			immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration
Reform mandates large


			numbers of undocumented people to "learn
English" (whatever that 
			means), ESL programs may be swamped with
students who have very 
			little education in their native countries and
too little money to 
			serve them.  So anyone who has any ideas about
how to bridge this 
			"education gap" could help us a lot by posting
ideas about how to 
			close it on this discussion list.



			Forrest Chisman

			Vice President

			CAAL







			*From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
			[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
			*On
			Behalf Of *Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
			*Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
			*To:* The Assessment Discussion List
			*Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous
Content?} RE: No 
			Questions or Comments?!




			Hi Jackie,

			Thank you for this information. I believe this
research must be what 
			my former Spanish teacher was basing her
argument on for bilingual 
			education in the K-12 school system.

			Tina

			Tina Luffman
			Coordinator, Developmental Education
			Verde Valley Campus
			928-634-6544
			tina_luffman at yc.edu

			  *"Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>*
Sent by: 
			assessment-bounces at nifl.gov

			02/05/2008 11:13 AM

			Please respond to
			The Assessment Discussion List
<assessment at nifl.gov>

			To

			"The Assessment Discussion List"
<assessment at nifl.gov>

			cc

			Subject

			[Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE:
No Questions or  
			Comments?!






			Hi Tina,

			This has been researched already and is the
basis for the arguement 
			in favor of bilingual education, a good idea
that was not implemented


			in the best way. For many years people have
known that a good 
			foundation in literacy in the first language
will facilitate learning


			in a second or third language.

			Another interesting twist is the existence of
languages that are not 
			written.

			Jackie


			On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
<Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:

				Hi list members,

				My experience teaching ELAA students in
the GED class is similar to

			that
			of

				Gail. If the student has a solid
educational background in the 
				country

			they

				came from in their native language, they
tend to advance rather

			quickly
			and

				get their GED. Those coming with 6th
grade educations from their

			country
			or

				lower tend to stay in the GED class for
years and do not make much 
				advancement.

				This experience relates well to research
done among Native American

			tribes

				teaching them English. Those Native
Americans who were first taught

			literacy

				skills in their own tongue learned
English much quicker than those 
				who

			tried

				to learn literacy skills in English
without that background in 
				their

			own

				tongue. I also found similar problems
when I was learning Spanish. 
				The concepts I could mentally translate
from English to Spanish 
				were much

			easier

				to grasp and learn than those I didn't
know in English. Perhaps 
				this

			is

				something deserving more research.

				Tina
				Tina Luffman
				Coordinator, Developmental Education
Verde Valley Campus
				928-634-6544
				tina_luffman at yc.edu

				-----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote:
-----

				To: "The Assessment Discussion List"
<assessment at nifl.gov>
				From: "Gail Burnett"
<gburnett at sanford.org> Sent by: 
				assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
				Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
				Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous
Content?} RE: No Questions or


				Comments?!


				Warning: This message has had one or
more attachments removed
				Warning: (not named).
				Warning: Please read the
"AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for

			more

				information.

				In our small adult education program, my
experience (just about 
				three

			years)

				is that students with solid educational
backgrounds advance,

			particularly if

				they're not working too many hours.
Those who advance the slowest, 
				if

			at

				all, are immigrants who are barely
literate in their first 
				language. I

			would

				say that lack of education is a bigger
factor than lack of time; a

			student

				who works full-time and is exhausted
often will still succeed 
				because

			he/she

				is familiar with academic work, and is
goal-oriented. What we do is

			try
			to

				get our low-level students to come up
with goals, but that's a hard

			concept

				in a second language.

				This does not mean that the factors
mentioned in the research don't

			play
			a

				part, though. I'm one of those
barely-trained teachers 
				(transitioned

			from

				another career, got trained mainly
through workshops rather than

			classes).

				My skill level very well may contribute
to students' slow

	advancement.

			It's

				hard for small adult education programs
to get highly skilled ESL

			teachers.

				The pay is low and there are no
benefits. But my program is

			encouraging
			me

				to get extra training and has me on a
plan of improvement. I think

			we're

				making some progress.

				Does this address any of the issues? And
am I submitting it right?

				________________________________

				From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on
behalf of Marie Cora
				Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
				To: Assessment at nifl.gov
				Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions
or Comments?!


				Hello everyone,

				I'm so surprised!  No one has anything
to comment on regarding your


				program's effectiveness at helping ESL
students advance??  I was 
				very curious to know if subscribers
experience the same types of 
				issues

			that
			Dr.

				Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their
research:  a lack of 
				intensity

			of

				instruction/few protocols for
transitioning students/few 
				opportunities

			for

				professional development.

				What are the issues in your program that
you feel inhibit the ESL

			student

				from advancing?  What do you try to do
about that?

				Please post your questions and comments
now.

				Thanks!

				Marie Cora
				Assessment Discussion List Moderator


				Marie Cora
				marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
				<mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
				NIFL Assessment Discussion List
Moderator 
				<marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>

			http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment



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				This message contains confidential
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		Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu




	--
	JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
	Professor, Education Department
	Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator,
	Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
	University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC) 1000 Hilltop
Circle,
	Baltimore, MD 21250
	ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
	email: crandall at umbc.edu
	www.umbc.edu/llc/
	www.umbc.edu/esol/
	www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html



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-------------- next part --------------
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From jschneider at eicc.edu  Fri Feb  8 12:30:26 2008
From: jschneider at eicc.edu (Schneider, Jim)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:30:26 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1190] Re: {Dangerous Content?} assessments
In-Reply-To: <004101c86a6d$95aef5b0$c10ce110$@net>
Message-ID: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870AD7F56C@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>

Forrest, 

Having read everything I can find that you have written in the past 17
years, dim is the least of terms I'd use to describe you. (I'm working
on a Ph.D proposal dealing with the marginality of community college ABE
programs).

The issue with standardized tests, NRS, NCLB, etc. is that they are
trying to impose Frederick Taylor's principles of scientific management
to people. The variables involved with forging steel are certainly
complex, but finite in comparison to the variables involved with nearly
any aspect of working with people. 

An incredible instructor can make a poorly conceived curriculum work,
whereas the best curriculum in the world will languish in the hands of a
mediocre to poor teacher. 

Similarly, standardized assessments are a weak, artificial means of
assessing skills. 

I do like CASAS for the life & work orientation over a more academic
assessment such as TABE. However, even the life and work orientation is
highly dependent on the experiences of the learner. This morning I have
a Buddhist monk from Cambodia enrolling in our program. He has completed
16 years of education in Cambodia, his listening, speaking, and writing
are all exemplary relative to our typical ESL student. However, he is
struggling with the last section on a CASAS C level reading assessment
because of the context of the material being presented. I suspect that
he will do well, but his struggle exemplifies the weakness of using
standardized assessment and expecting standardized results. Educating
people is significantly more complex than forging steel... We are
learning how to become more effective in our approaches, but I cannot
fathom teaching and learning ever being "standardized" to the extent of
those who seem to believe that NRS/NCLB etc. is the answer to the
question. 

Jim S. 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 10:14 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1183] Re: {Dangerous Content?} assessments

Jim,

Very interesting, and thanks. What puzzles me is that a lot of people
seems to say, as you do, that CASAS and other standardized tests work
well for NRS, but not for teaching/learning. But if the purpose of NRS
is to determine how much students are learning in particular programs,
how can this be so? Maybe I'm just dumb about this, but I'd rather
confess my ignorance than live with it. Shouldn't NRS be measuring what
your students are actually learning? And if CASAS and other standardized
tests don't do that, don't we need either a better assessment system, or
a better way of reporting to NRS by other means.

As I say, maybe I'm just dim.

Forrest       

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Schneider, Jim
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 10:31 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1177] Re: {Dangerous Content?} assessments

CASAS is the assessment of choice (mandated) in Iowa. If teachers and
learners buy into competency-based instruction, the CASAS assessments
have some utility. The short-comings and artificiality of standardized
tests seem to be amplified with the ESL. 

The reading and listening tests fall short of providing a comprehensive
useful assessment of the student's abilities at orientation. We offer
three levels in the morning, beginning, intermediate, and advanced, with
the placement being done using their writing (application), speaking and
listening (initial interview questions), and reading (based on the
literacy demonstrated with the application and interview). 

However, due to the mix of skills, the beginning and intermediate are
really blended multi-level classes with some beginners who can read, but
struggle with speech and writing, and some intermediate who can speak
very clearly, but struggle with the reading and writing and virtually
every other possible combination. 

Similarly, teachers and students have been frustrated with the lack of
progress in post-testing as well as the inconsistency of the scores.
Those students that bring high literacy skills to the class tend to have
fairly consistent scores. Those who are not as literate (and are a
growing population in ESL) can swing up and down the scaled score
throughout the year with little rhyme or reason. 

Bottom line - CASAS works well for the standardization required by NRS,
but is not as powerful or useful in regard to teaching and learning as
one would like. 

Jim Schneider

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 8:16 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1170] Re: {Dangerous Content?} assessments

Gail,

Good question!!!!!!!!!! I'd be interested in the replies. Because CASAS
is MANDATED in many states, and most programs don't want to use more
than one assessment (because of limited time for testing and fear of
over-testing).
What do you all think of CASAS for ESL?

Forrest 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Gail Burnett
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:08 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1162] {Dangerous Content?} assessments

Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
Warning: (not named).
Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more
information.

All the discussion on this list (the first I've ever joined) has been
fascinating. I have a question I haven't seen addressed. Someone said
that the BEST-Plus is the only valid kind of test for ESL learners. What
does anyone think of the CASAS? That's what we use with our adult
students, both ELLs and native speakers. I know it wasn't designed for
ESL use but it does use real-life material (road maps, pay stubs, store
signs, etc.) and I think that's good. What has always bothered me is
that it's taken silently. That doesn't seem right for our lower level
students, who rarely make many gains.
I wonder if it's considered valid for them or not. I know that other ESL
programs do use it.

Thanks.


-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of
assessment-request at nifl.gov
Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 5:57 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: Assessment Digest, Vol 29, Issue 28
 
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Today's Topics:

   1. [Assessment 1160] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
      or	Comments?! (Jodi Crandall)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 17:22:49 -0500
From: Jodi Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu>
Subject: [Assessment 1160] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
	or	Comments?!
To: "Forrest Chisman" <forrest at crosslink.net>
Cc: 'The Assessment Discussion List' <assessment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <076B1938-8827-49B0-9890-3DA0BC4C3641 at umbc.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Forrest,

I'm not sure yet that I know the question, but here goes ...

I don't know of community college programs now that continue to separate
out literacy level students after the actual literacy class.  Does
anyone else>

When I mentioned higher levels of prior education, in this context, I
didn't mean college-educated students, but those with closer to a high
school education n their own countries.  These are the students that we
used to believe were the main students that we served, not the literacy
level students who are increasingly being enrolled  in our classes.

For highly educated individuals, those with college degrees in their own
countries, most of the programs that I know seek to transition these
students into more academic ESL programs at the intermediate levels.  In
fact, some community colleges, like the English for Academic Purposes
College of Lake County, that we studied, created a seamless transition
from noncredit to credit academic ESL courses by working backwards from
the credit expectations and then aligning the intermediate level
noncredit ESL to them.

City College, as you know, provides accelerated ESL classes (two terms
in
one) for more educated students, since they are likely to be able to
make faster progress.


Jodi

On Feb 6, 2008, at 5:52 PM, Forrest Chisman wrote:

> Jodi,
>
> I think you misunderstood me (as usual) :-). My question wasn't about 
> separating out literacy level students. I agree most programs do that.
> My question was about the other practice from the 1980's you mention
> -- separate classes for students with higher levels of prior education

> ABOVE the literacy level.
>
> Forrest
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM
> To: The Assessment Discussion List
> Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions 
> or Comments?!
>
> Jackie and Forrest,
>
> I think most large programs separate literacy level students from 
> others who are at a beginning level.  I know that back in the 1980s 
> when there were large refugee ESL programs, several community colleges

> created parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels and even into 
> intermediate levels, with one set of classes for students with limited

> literacy or prior schooling and another for more educated students.
> The reason was that the students with less education made slower 
> progress.  Some of this is undoubtedly due to the way in which we 
> teach English (requiring literacy), but it is also because students 
> need to become accustomed to attending classes, learning to hold and 
> use a pen or pencil, and a wide range of basic skills that come with 
> being a student in a class.
>
> Those of you who have separate classes for those who need  
> literacy:   Can
> you tell us what kind of classes or program you provide?
>
> Those who teach both literacy and more educated learners in the same
> class:  Can you let us know how you manage?  What are some ways in 
> which you accommodate both sets of needs?
>
> Jodi
>> Forrest,
>>    I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy 
>> background and those without. These two groups have such different 
>> needs.
>> Having both
>> in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs of 
>> either group well and I find that often the stronger students 
>> dominate the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the 
>> instructor does not keep up with the students who are learning at a 
>> faster rate, they often become frustrated and leave or mentally check

>> out. However, if the instructor keeps up with those students, the 
>> others are unable to keep up and they get frustrated.
>>   I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And 
>> regardless of how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.
>> Jackie
>>
>>
>> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>  To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor

>>> in student performance:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more 
>>> highly educated students do better in terms of  persistence, 
>>> learning gains, and transitions. And learning theory would lead us 
>>> to expect this.
>>> Regrettably
>>> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior 
>>> education makes, because too few programs track the level of prior 
>>> education of their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any 
>>> of you do this?
>>> That is,
>>> do
>>> you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education 
>>> makes?
>>> Or
>>> any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior 
>>> education that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are 
>>> completely illiterate, students who at least reached high school, 
>>> high school graduates, college graduates, etc. --  or is level of 
>>> prior education pretty much of a continuum?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between 
>>> highly educated students and those with less prior education?
>>> Presumably students with very low levels of education are more 
>>> likely end up in the lower level ESL courses (Literacy or 
>>> Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by
>>> definition)  in the business of teaching basic literacy and 
>>> sometimes math.
>>> Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at 
>>> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would 
>>> it be desirable to place less highly educated students in separate 
>>> classes from those with more education and adjust the 
>>> curriculum/support systems for them accordingly? Some programs have 
>>> tried "native language literacy"
>>> or the
>>> Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these 
>>> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of 
>>> "bi-lingual education" that should be tried?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because 
>>> the people who study immigration tell us that the level of education

>>> of immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates 
>>> large numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever 
>>> that means), ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very

>>> little education in their native countries and too little money to 
>>> serve them.  So anyone who has any ideas about how to bridge this 
>>> "education gap" could help us a lot by posting ideas about how to 
>>> close it on this discussion list.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Forrest Chisman
>>>
>>> Vice President
>>>
>>> CAAL
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
>>> bounces at nifl.gov] *On Behalf Of *Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
>>> *To:* The Assessment Discussion List
>>> *Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No 
>>> Questions or Comments?!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Jackie,
>>>
>>> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what

>>> my former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual 
>>> education in the K-12 school system.
>>>
>>> Tina
>>>
>>> Tina Luffman
>>> Coordinator, Developmental Education Verde Valley Campus
>>> 928-634-6544
>>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>>
>>>   *"Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>* Sent by: 
>>> assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>
>>> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM
>>>
>>> Please respond to
>>> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>>
>>> To
>>>
>>> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>>
>>> cc
>>>
>>> Subject
>>>
>>> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or 
>>> Comments?!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Tina,
>>>
>>> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement 
>>> in favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not 
>>> implemented in the best way. For many years people have known that a

>>> good foundation in literacy in the first language will facilitate 
>>> learning in a second or third language.
>>>
>>> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not

>>> written.
>>>
>>> Jackie
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:
>>>> Hi list members,
>>>>
>>>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to
>>> that
>>> of
>>>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the 
>>>> country
>>> they
>>>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather
>>> quickly
>>> and
>>>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their
>>> country
>>> or
>>>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much 
>>>> advancement.
>>>>
>>>> This experience relates well to research done among Native American
>>> tribes
>>>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
>>> literacy
>>>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those 
>>>> who
>>> tried
>>>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in 
>>>> their
>>> own
>>>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. 
>>>> The concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish 
>>>> were much
>>> easier
>>>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps 
>>>> this
>>> is
>>>> something deserving more research.
>>>>
>>>> Tina
>>>> Tina Luffman
>>>> Coordinator, Developmental Education Verde Valley Campus
>>>> 928-634-6544
>>>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>>>
>>>> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>>>>
>>>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org> Sent by: 
>>>> assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or

>>>> Comments?!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
>>>> Warning: (not named).
>>>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for
>>> more
>>>> information.
>>>>
>>>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about 
>>>> three
>>> years)
>>>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
>>> particularly if
>>>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, 
>>>> if
>>> at
>>>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first 
>>>> language. I
>>> would
>>>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a
>>> student
>>>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed 
>>>> because
>>> he/she
>>>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is
>>> try
>>> to
>>>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
>>> concept
>>>> in a second language.
>>>>
>>>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't
>>> play
>>> a
>>>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers 
>>>> (transitioned
>>> from
>>>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
>>> classes).
>>>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow 
>>>> advancement.
>>> It's
>>>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
>>> teachers.
>>>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is
>>> encouraging
>>> me
>>>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think
>>> we're
>>>> making some progress.
>>>>
>>>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>
>>>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
>>>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your

>>>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was 
>>>> very curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of 
>>>> issues
>>> that
>>> Dr.
>>>> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of 
>>>> intensity
>>> of
>>>> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few 
>>>> opportunities
>>> for
>>>> professional development.
>>>>
>>>> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>>> student
>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
>>>>
>>>> Please post your questions and comments now.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Marie Cora
>>>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marie Cora
>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator 
>>>> <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>>> intended
>>>> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>>> addressed.
>>>> If you have received this email in error please notify the system
>>> manager.
>>>> This message contains confidential information and is intended only
>>> for
>>> the
>>>> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not

>>>> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
>>>> <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>>>
>>>>
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>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
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>
>
> --
> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Professor, Education Department
> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture Coordinator, 
> Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/ Bilingual 
> Education University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC) 1000 Hilltop

> Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
> email: crandall at umbc.edu
> www.umbc.edu/llc/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
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> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
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>
>

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor and Director
Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program Director, Peace Corps
Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education University of Maryland
Baltimore County 1000 Hilltop Circle Baltimore, MD 21250
tel:  410-455-2313
fax: 410-455-8947
eml: crandall at umbc.edu




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From rhinkle at raritanval.edu  Fri Feb  8 12:52:45 2008
From: rhinkle at raritanval.edu (Hinkle, Robert)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:52:45 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1189] Re: (no subject)
References: <CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B2E@exchr.raritanval.edu>	<007201c86a04$26b41a50$741c4ef0$@net>
	<CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B3C@exchr.raritanval.edu>
	<001f01c86a69$364ee6b0$a2ecb410$@net>
	<4BF38AF2-AB8B-4E41-A30B-388D328E41BF@umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B3F@exchr.raritanval.edu>

Jodi,
 
We have a small but probably growing group of Generation 1.5 students (I wrote a dissertation on Generation 1.5 students for my PhD from NYU - completed in late 2005). Some Gen. 1.5 students do take some ESL while others end up going the developmental studies route. Largely this depends on how resistant they are to ESL. We simply can't force somebody to be motivated for something they do not think they need. We find they are much more excited by developmental coursework than by ESL - and we feel that they are more likely to be successful there. I should add that the Generation 1.5 students I see at RVCC are not as severely underdeveloped in terms of academic skills as Gen. 1.5 students in somewhat more urban locations. As so many discover, there are no magical answers. This is where I gnash my teeth at the lack of cooperation between high schools and colleges. I feel cooperation could mitigate the rather devastating effect of being told in college that your English is not at all what is expected for academic success.
 
We do have some international students and a fairly significant number of au pairs who are working for the many wealthy families that live in this part of New Jersey. 
 
Our ESL is all credit (unfortunately all but the highest level of reading/writing is credit in name only; it doesn't count towards a degree but is called credit for billing purposes - similar to developmental reading and math courses for native speaking students). Fortunately, we did convince the college to award 6 real credits for the highest level reading/writing course which can count towards RVCC graduation only as a general elective. 
 
 
Kevin

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Fri 2/8/2008 11:39 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1184] Re: (no subject)


Kevin, 

Are many of your students what we now refer to as generation 1.5 students?  They have had much or most of their education in this country, but may still need extensive help with academic English, especially in writing?

If so, are there any special things that you have tried to help this population?

Do you also have international students?

Joy Reid has written extensively about "ear" learners (generation 1.5 learners would likely be here) and "eye" learners and how their needs are so different.  Ear learners are those who were immersed in an English-speaking environment and have learned their English orally.  As you suggest, they have strong Basic Interpersonal Communication Skills or social language, but may not have developed the academic language required for success in the community college.  Eye learners are just the opposite: they have learned English through books and lack the fluency of ear learners, but are more likely to have more standard English  While these two groups share some common needs, they are also very different in others.  It's a real challenge.  Getting these ear learners prepared for the college is something that lots of people are talking and writing about.

There is also the problem with the first group that they speak English and often are offended when told they need more English, especially when it's ESL!

In effect you are teaching only credit ESL, is that right?  Are there linkages with any of the programs in the community that are teaching lower level ESL?

Jodi  
On Feb 8, 2008, at 10:42 AM, Forrest Chisman wrote:


	Kevin,

	 

	Thanks for the explanation. I find it VERY useful. It's a very interesting model. I'm not surprised that your students are motivated for college, because they've signed up for a college prep track! What worries me are the limited aspirations of many lower level ESL students who may have college potential. 

	 

	I understand now why you don't have the resources to operate a more comprehensive program. I've heard an increasing number of stories about areas were the LEA runs the federal/state  adult education ESL grant program and has asked the local college to take it over (because the LEA has concluded it's an "adult" program). Have there been any rumblings of that in your area?

	 

	Best of luck in your good work.

	 

	Forrest    

	 

	From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
	Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 9:42 AM
	To: The Assessment Discussion List; The Assessment Discussion List
	Subject: [Assessment 1174] Re: (no subject)

	 

	I believe we do have a hard time getting enough students fed into our program and with the appropriate background to succeed if they do come to us. It is a real problem. There are some workplace ESL programs which are run through our Corporate and Continuing Education Office, but those students rarely, if ever, come to us. And they serve the employees of specific companies as opposed to the community at large. 

	 

	Our ESL program is within an academic department in the college (Communication and Languages) and so is run like every other. ESL students pay the same tuition and fees as all other students at the college. We do not receive special government funding beyond what the state and counties provide for the college as a whole as a part of our yearly budget.

	 

	Finances are probably a big reason why we are getting fewer students at the low levels. Community programs are free or low cost; although in the scheme of higher education, the community college is less expensive, it may still be out of reach of many students. 

	 

	In terms of having a more comprehensive program, we are limited by a small staff, and the unlikelihood of being able to expand given college budgeting restraints. In addition, our three full-time faculty members (including myself) not only teach 15 credit hours per semester but also do the administrative work required. We do advising, scheduling, and the many other tasks associate with keeping the program afloat. The only "official" administrative support for the program is through the 3 hours of overload I receive to serve as Adjunct Coordinator. 

	 

	The belief that they can attend college does not seem to be a problem with our population although I can certainly see that it could be. A growing problem for us (and many around the country) is the disconnect between high schools and colleges in terms of student preparation. Either the high schools do not think the students are college-bound and so don't bother to give them a college-prep course of study, or there is simply a growing gap between the expectations of each. Additionally, students seem to think that a high school diploma equates to college readiness.

	 

	We do our best to advise students, but we don't always have enough time - and as professors primarily - may not know ourselves what all of the options for students are. 

	 

	Kevin 

	 

________________________________

	From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Forrest Chisman
	Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 10:38 PM
	To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
	Subject: [Assessment 1172] Re: (no subject)

	Dear Kevin,

	 

	Many thanks for providing all of us with a profile of your program. Seeing the variety of college program goals and designs is extremely valuable in stimulating ideas about how to do a better job in delivering ESL.

	 

	Personally, I think that it is perfectly valid for colleges to elect to offer solely pre-academic ESL at the non-credit level. But it does prompt the concern about whether other programs in the college's service area are providing non-academic ESL to large enough numbers of students and at a high enough quality to "feed" the college program - as well as how well their efforts articulate with yours. I wonder whether this troubles you, and if so whether/how you have addressed the issue.  Frankly, I think one reason why many colleges offer comprehensive ESL programs is that they would prefer to "make" pre-academic students themselves, rather than rely on others to do it. Another reason, of course, if that they may not be eligible for federal/state grant money unless they offer comprehensive programs. Does your college receive these funds to support its pre-academic program? If not, how is it supported financially?

	 

	I heartily agree that helping students set realistic goals and understand their options is essential. I believe, however, that encouraging students to expand their goals as they succeed is also essential. For example, many immigrants come from countries where going to college is the privilege of very few, and thus may consider that an unrealistic goal  unless they are encouraged to take the steps necessary (often one step at a time). The problem seems to be that it is hard for most programs to find the resources to provide very much guidance of any of these kinds to most students. I wonder if anyone has any solutions to THAT issue. 

	 

	In any event, many thanks for fleshing out an interesting model.  

	 

	Forrest     

	 

	From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
	Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:19 PM
	To: assessment at nifl.gov
	Subject: [Assessment 1148] (no subject)

	 

	Hi All,

	 

	I have been reading most of the discussion comments and wanted to address a few issues. First, however, I'll give a summary of our program. 

	 

	I teach ESL at Raritan Valley Community College in New Jersey. Our program serves approximately 350 students from diverse language backgrounds. Our program offers two pre-academic levels of all skills ESL instruction (a six hour per week non-credit class). In addition, we have 5 levels of academic ESL preparation divided into three courses - Reading/Writing, Grammar, and Speaking/Listening). Our highest level Reading/Writing course gives successful students 6 elective credits that count towards RVCC graduation, but those credits do not transfer. Our semesters are 15 weeks. If a student misses 20% of any class, the instructor may withdraw that student (they are not, however, obliged to withdraw these students). At the moment, the late enrollment policy is that students may register for a course prior to the second week of class but not thereafter. Research, of course, indicates that students who begin a class late have a much higher rate of failure than those who begin on time. 

	 

	In our program, we have three full-time faculty and approximately 16-18 adjuncts. 

	 

	We have focused our program on academic prep ESL because we are a small program with limited resources, and we have a very difficult time finding qualified adjuncts. Also, a significant majority of our students have signalled their intention to obtain a college degree. Moreover, there are community programs that offer basic English skills although there is often a long waiting list to obtain the services. In other issues, we use the Accuplacer ESL test for placement and have in-house standardized tests at the end of each level of grammar and reading/writing

	 

	Within our classes, highly educated non-native speakers usually progress much more quickly. One of the most challenging groups is students who graduated from local high schools but still have inadequate English skills - and not infrequently, weak academic skills in general. One of the strategies that I would personally wish for is real communication between K-12 and community colleges so that students get the language skills they need before they enter college. I understand that there is great pressure to move students out of ESL in many school districts, but ultimately, it does a huge disservice both financially and in terms of motivation to students whose skills remain more BICS than CALP. 

	 

	I agree with those who suggest that first language literacy issues should be addressed before students enter ESL. However, it becomes complicated to find funding and support for such efforts. In my experience, students with low level literacy skills become frustrated and are not ultimately successful - probably by any definition. I am uncomfortable with the idea that they are spending hard-earned money when the chances for success in ESL are minimal. We advise students that the program is academically-oriented; often they have little understanding of what that means. 

	 

	I do not agree with the suggestion that the bar be lowered so that students with low-intermediate skills be allowed in credit classes (at least at my college). Historically, other faculty have little experience handling language issues and are very unhappy when students cannot read, write and converse at an appropriate level of English. They end up feeling helpless. Students may pass classes; however, I suspect that instructors do not want to deal with the challenges and so turn a blind eye and let them through. Recently, there has been a problem in the nursing department with non-native English speaking students not passing board exams because they enter the college from other programs and circumvent ESL with us. They have trouble reading and answering questions on the exam. This is a significant problem because nursing programs are judged in terms of the success of their students on these standardized exams. 

	 

	I think the measure of success should be based on a realistic assessment of student goals combined with a real-life discussion of the possibilities and limitations. Ideally, students would have incremental goals so that success could build. If the goals for students with low literacy levels are not carefully discussed and planned, then they will likely encounter more failure than success because their expectaions will be unrealistic. The more we have the opportunity to talk to students, the more likely it is that they can develop short-term goals that are within their reach. Unfortunately, we have no control over the myriad of complications that accrue in their every day lives. 

	 

	Apologies for the length.

	 

	Kevin Hinkle, Ph.D.

	Assistant Professor of ESL/Adjunct Coordinator

	-------------------------------
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	Assessment at nifl.gov
	To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
	Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu


JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor and Director
Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
University of Maryland Baltimore County
1000 Hilltop Circle
Baltimore, MD 21250
tel:  410-455-2313
fax: 410-455-8947
eml: crandall at umbc.edu




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From crandall at umbc.edu  Fri Feb  8 13:09:22 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (Jodi Crandall)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:09:22 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1191] Re: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <8CA3889EA7B2E7B-1014-2817@webmailbeta-m10.sysops.aol.com>
References: <CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B2E@exchr.raritanval.edu>	<007201c86a04$26b41a50$741c4ef0$@net>	<CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B3C@exchr.raritanval.edu>
	<001f01c86a69$364ee6b0$a2ecb410$@net>
	<8CA3889EA7B2E7B-1014-2817@webmailbeta-m10.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <9896493C-9886-4CD1-8578-D7DD25EEE11D@umbc.edu>

Joanne,

Bravo!  Making connections with such limited funds is critical.  I  
remember when major cities had  councils which coordinated literacy/ 
ESL services.  I wonder if any of you have some kind of even an   
informal network that meets to discuss the most efficient and  
effective ways to use the minimal funds that are available.
Jodi

On Feb 8, 2008, at 11:50 AM, jhalaesl at aol.com wrote:

> Not always the reason for an LEA-to-local college turnover of those  
> federal and state adult ed funds
> In my experience, it has simply and sadly been the result of  
> limited resources and insufficient funds.
> And in some areas a CBO (not an LEA) manages those grant programs,  
> offers classes free to the lowest literacy ESL/ESOL students, and  
> is never able to fully bridge the gap between very part-time  
> instruction and college.
>
> One key element to our small successes has been having colleagues  
> in each institution (local college, LEA, CBO, gov't DOE/DOL) who  
> understand the dynamics and the gaps. Granted, most are still  
> limited by the systems in which they work and to which they must be  
> accountable. But there is still much to be said for permitting  
> ourselves some case-by-case thinking, making those simple phone  
> calls, and asking.
>
> Joanne Hala
> Literacy Serrvices
> Jointure for Community Adult Education, Inc.
>
> ?ve heard an increasing number of stories about areas were the LEA  
> runs the federal/state  adult education ESL grant program and has  
> asked the local college to take it over (because the LEA has  
> concluded it?s an ?adult? program). Have there been any rumblings  
> of that in your area?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net>
> To: 'The Assessment Discussion List' <assessment at nifl.gov>
> Sent: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 10:42 am
> Subject: [Assessment 1179] Re: (no subject)
>
> Kevin,
>
> Thanks for the explanation. I find it VERY useful. It?s a very  
> interesting model. I?m not surprised that your students are  
> motivated for college, because they?ve signed up for a college prep  
> track! What worries me are the limited aspirations of many lower  
> level ESL students who may have college potential.
>
> I understand now why you don?t have the resources to operate a more  
> comprehensive program. I?ve heard an increasing number of stories  
> about areas were the LEA runs the federal/state  adult education  
> ESL grant program and has asked the local college to take it over  
> (because the LEA has concluded it?s an ?adult? program). Have there  
> been any rumblings of that in your area?
>
> Best of luck in your good work.
>
> Forrest
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 9:42 AM
> To: The Assessment Discussion List; The Assessment Discussion List
> Subject: [Assessment 1174] Re: (no subject)
>
> I believe we do have a hard time getting enough students fed into  
> our program and with the appropriate background to succeed if they  
> do come to us. It is a real problem. There are some workplace ESL  
> programs which are run through our Corporate and Continuing  
> Education Office, but those students rarely, if ever, come to us.  
> And they serve the employees of specific companies as opposed to  
> the community at large.
>
> Our ESL program is within an academic department in the college  
> (Communication and Languages) and so is run like every other. ESL  
> students pay the same tuition and fees as all other students at the  
> college. We do not receive special government funding beyond what  
> the state and counties provide for the college as a whole as a part  
> of our yearly budget.
>
> Finances are probably a big reason why we are getting fewer  
> students at the low levels. Community programs are free or low  
> cost; although in the scheme of higher education, the community  
> college is less expensive, it may still be out of reach of many  
> students.
>
> In terms of having a more comprehensive program, we are limited by  
> a small staff, and the unlikelihood of being able to expand given  
> college budgeting restraints. In addition, our three full-time  
> faculty members (including myself) not only teach 15 credit hours  
> per semester but also do the administrative work required. We do  
> advising, scheduling, and the many other tasks associate with  
> keeping the program afloat. The only "official" administrative  
> support for the program is through the 3 hours of overload I  
> receive to serve as Adjunct Coordinator.
>
> The belief that they can attend college does not seem to be a  
> problem with our population although I can certainly see that it  
> could be. A growing problem for us (and many around the country) is  
> the disconnect between high schools and colleges in terms of  
> student preparation. Either the high schools do not think the  
> students are college-bound and so don't bother to give them a  
> college-prep course of study, or there is simply a growing gap  
> between the expectations of each. Additionally, students seem to  
> think that a high school diploma equates to college readiness.
>
> We do our best to advise students, but we don't always have enough  
> time - and as professors primarily - may not know ourselves what  
> all of the options for students are.
>
> Kevin
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Forrest Chisman
> Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 10:38 PM
> To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
> Subject: [Assessment 1172] Re: (no subject)
> Dear Kevin,
>
> Many thanks for providing all of us with a profile of your program.  
> Seeing the variety of college program goals and designs is  
> extremely valuable in stimulating ideas about how to do a better  
> job in delivering ESL.
>
> Personally, I think that it is perfectly valid for colleges to  
> elect to offer solely pre-academic ESL at the non-credit level. But  
> it does prompt the concern about whether other programs in the  
> college?s service area are providing non-academic ESL to large  
> enough numbers of students and at a high enough quality to ?feed?  
> the college program ? as well as how well their efforts articulate  
> with yours. I wonder whether this troubles you, and if so whether/ 
> how you have addressed the issue.  Frankly, I think one reason why  
> many colleges offer comprehensive ESL programs is that they would  
> prefer to ?make? pre-academic students themselves, rather than rely  
> on others to do it. Another reason, of course, if that they may not  
> be eligible for federal/state grant money unless they offer  
> comprehensive programs. Does your college receive these funds to  
> support its pre-academic program? If not, how is it supported  
> financially?
>
> I heartily agree that helping students set realistic goals and  
> understand their options is essential. I believe, however, that  
> encouraging students to expand their goals as they succeed is also  
> essential. For example, many immigrants come from countries where  
> going to college is the privilege of very few, and thus may  
> consider that an unrealistic goal  unless they are encouraged to  
> take the steps necessary (often one step at a time). The problem  
> seems to be that it is hard for most programs to find the resources  
> to provide very much guidance of any of these kinds to most  
> students. I wonder if anyone has any solutions to THAT issue.
>
> In any event, many thanks for fleshing out an interesting model.
>
> Forrest
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:19 PM
> To: assessment at nifl.gov
> Subject: [Assessment 1148] (no subject)
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have been reading most of the discussion comments and wanted to  
> address a few issues. First, however, I'll give a summary of our  
> program.
>
> I teach ESL at Raritan Valley Community College in New Jersey. Our  
> program serves approximately 350 students from diverse language  
> backgrounds. Our program offers two pre-academic levels of all  
> skills ESL instruction (a six hour per week non-credit class). In  
> addition, we have 5 levels of academic ESL preparation divided into  
> three courses - Reading/Writing, Grammar, and Speaking/Listening).  
> Our highest level Reading/Writing course gives successful students  
> 6 elective credits that count towards RVCC graduation, but those  
> credits do not transfer. Our semesters are 15 weeks. If a student  
> misses 20% of any class, the instructor may withdraw that student  
> (they are not, however, obliged to withdraw these students). At the  
> moment, the late enrollment policy is that students may register  
> for a course prior to the second week of class but not thereafter.  
> Research, of course, indicates that students who begin a class late  
> have a much higher rate of failure than those who begin on time.
>
> In our program, we have three full-time faculty and approximately  
> 16-18 adjuncts.
>
> We have focused our program on academic prep ESL because we are a  
> small program with limited resources, and we have a very difficult  
> time finding qualified adjuncts. Also, a significant majority of  
> our students have signalled their intention to obtain a college  
> degree. Moreover, there are community programs that offer basic  
> English skills although there is often a long waiting list to  
> obtain the services. In other issues, we use the Accuplacer ESL  
> test for placement and have in-house standardized tests at the end  
> of each level of grammar and reading/writing
>
> Within our classes, highly educated non-native speakers usually  
> progress much more quickly. One of the most challenging groups is  
> students who graduated from local high schools but still have  
> inadequate English skills - and not infrequently, weak academic  
> skills in general. One of the strategies that I would personally  
> wish for is real communication between K-12 and community colleges  
> so that students get the language skills they need before they  
> enter college. I understand that there is great pressure to move  
> students out of ESL in many school districts, but ultimately, it  
> does a huge disservice both financially and in terms of motivation  
> to students whose skills remain more BICS than CALP.
>
> I agree with those who suggest that first language literacy issues  
> should be addressed before students enter ESL. However, it becomes  
> complicated to find funding and support for such efforts. In my  
> experience, students with low level literacy skills become  
> frustrated and are not ultimately successful - probably by any  
> definition. I am uncomfortable with the idea that they are spending  
> hard-earned money when the chances for success in ESL are minimal.  
> We advise students that the program is academically-oriented; often  
> they have little understanding of what that means.
>
> I do not agree with the suggestion that the bar be lowered so that  
> students with low-intermediate skills be allowed in credit classes  
> (at least at my college). Historically, other faculty have little  
> experience handling language issues and are very unhappy when  
> students cannot read, write and converse at an appropriate level of  
> English. They end up feeling helpless. Students may pass classes;  
> however, I suspect that instructors do not want to deal with the  
> challenges and so turn a blind eye and let them through. Recently,  
> there has been a problem in the nursing department with non-native  
> English speaking students not passing board exams because they  
> enter the college from other programs and circumvent ESL with us.  
> They have trouble reading and answering questions on the exam. This  
> is a significant problem because nursing programs are judged in  
> terms of the success of their students on these standardized exams.
>
> I think the measure of success should be based on a realistic  
> assessment of student goals combined with a real-life discussion of  
> the possibilities and limitations. Ideally, students would have  
> incremental goals so that success could build. If the goals for  
> students with low literacy levels are not carefully discussed and  
> planned, then they will likely encounter more failure than success  
> because their expectaions will be unrealistic. The more we have the  
> opportunity to talk to students, the more likely it is that they  
> can develop short-term goals that are within their reach.  
> Unfortunately, we have no control over the myriad of complications  
> that accrue in their every day lives.
>
> Apologies for the length.
>
> Kevin Hinkle, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor of ESL/Adjunct Coordinator
> -------------------------------
>
> National Institute for Literacy
>
> Assessment mailing list
>
> Assessment at nifl.gov
>
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>
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> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor and Director
Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
University of Maryland Baltimore County
1000 Hilltop Circle
Baltimore, MD 21250
tel:  410-455-2313
fax: 410-455-8947
eml: crandall at umbc.edu




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From crandall at umbc.edu  Fri Feb  8 13:17:58 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (Jodi Crandall)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:17:58 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1192] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
	orComments?!
In-Reply-To: <A1FACE81B7C82147B9CE6822E2D4A701022A24F8@MCMAIL2.mcnte.mc.cc.md.us>
References: <A1FACE81B7C82147B9CE6822E2D4A701022A24F8@MCMAIL2.mcnte.mc.cc.md.us>
Message-ID: <3CB6A6A4-8951-4438-BD56-DEBAF6A7E6AC@umbc.edu>

Noa,

These are fabulous ideas.  I especially like the emphasis on how  
literacy level students can help those who are more educated and also  
cooperate and compete with them in the snack bar and boutique.

You have provided clear guidance on how to maximize both groups'  
strengths and also encourage them to learn from each other.

By the way, "boutique" is so much more positive a name than the usual  
"closet" or another name that sounds like it's charity.

Do others have suggestions of ways of accommodating literacy level  
and more educated students in the same class.

Jodi

On Feb 8, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Sadan, Noa wrote:

> Jodi,
>
> The classroom mix of the highly educated literate students who  
> didn't know English with the literacy level beginning English  
> students was often a challenge. The first (unstated) task was to  
> help the educated students realize that they might learn a great  
> deal from those who picked up oral language faster than they did.
>
> Techniques for dealing with the mixed levels:
>     The Key: fostering a sense of community within the class
>     Main technique: Group work - teacher as enabler, moving around  
> the groups
>         extra reading help in reading given while class was working  
> on either written assignments or group projects
>         groups were mixed
>             always by language
>             occasionally by gender
>             rarely by ability (only when reading lessons  
> specifically for the literacy group were held)
>     School Job: The Refugee Center has a working Snack Bar, and  
> Boutique (donated clothing - everything sells for fifty cents/item).
>          students polish their abilty to work together
>         students learn chain of command (literacy level students  
> are supervisors just as often as the highly educated, since they  
> often have a verbal advantage)
>          literacy-level students could make coffee, serve as a  
> cashier, and give excellent customer service
>         a highly educated accountant who cannot get out an English  
> sentence orally, could create a cost-accounting spreadsheet see if  
> it was less expensive to buy bulk sugar or packets for coffee.
> Other projects are used as well - making recipe books, making  
> student profile books. Today, with the use of the computer, the  
> possibilities are endless for activities for mixed classes.
>
> Noa
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 12:59 PM
> To: The Assessment Discussion List
> Subject: [Assessment 1152] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No  
> Questions orComments?!
>
> Noa,
>
> Thanks for sharing this.  How wonderful to have had 20 hours per  
> week for these students.  Besides mutual respect (which is very  
> important), were there ways in which students could use their  
> complementary skills to help each other.  If you could describe  
> some of the activities that you or others used that were helpful,  
> that would be great.
>
> If others of you could share your experiences with mixed classes,  
> and how you coped with them, I think a lot of us would be interested.
>
> The change to separate Listening, Reading and "Homeroom" classes is  
> also a very interesting way of meeting the needs of this diverse  
> population.  I know that many community colleges separate their  
> instruction in adult ESL to oral language skills (Listening/ 
> Speaking) and written language (Reading/Writing) skills.  Are there  
> others out there who could share your experiences in this regard?
>
> The presence of World English speakers and Generation 1.5 speakers  
> in adult ESL has further complicated the situation.  I'd be  
> interested in knowing how  others  have dealt with such diverse  
> students in adult ESL/ESOL.
>
> Jodi
>
>
>
> n Feb 7, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Sadan, Noa wrote:
>
>> Years ago, the Montgomery County Refugee Training Program (Montgomery
>> College, Silver Spring, MD)had highly educated people with no  
>> English,
>> in class with literacy level students. It was certainly difficult
>> meeting the needs of all students, but in this intensive 20-hours/ 
>> week
>> program, a tremendous mutual respect was fostered between the groups.
>> Typically, the highly educated students raced ahead with reading and
>> writing, while the literacy students sped ahead with oral  
>> language. The
>> Somali mother of nine would say to the Russian engineer, "I wish I  
>> could
>> read and write like you!", while the Russian woman would reply, "I  
>> wish
>> I could speak like you."
>>
>> All this ended with a slightly different solution. The Refugee  
>> Center,
>> then under the direction of Donna Kinerney, divided that school  
>> day into
>> separate Listening,Reading and "Homeroom" classes. Homerooom took  
>> in all
>> skills, plus the introduction to the American workplace. This  
>> model was
>> in place when we began to get World English speakers who were not
>> literate. It provided a solution in which they could study in a
>> literacy-level reading/writing class, and interact in a higher level
>> Listening and Homeroom class.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
>> bounces at nifl.gov]
>> On Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM
>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>> Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No  
>> Questions or
>> Comments?!
>>
>> Jackie and Forrest,
>>
>> I think most large programs separate literacy level students from  
>> others
>> who are at a beginning level.  I know that back in the 1980s when  
>> there
>> were large refugee ESL programs, several community colleges created
>> parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels and even into  
>> intermediate
>> levels, with one set of classes for students with limited literacy or
>> prior schooling and another for more educated students.  The  
>> reason was
>> that the students with less education made slower progress.  Some of
>> this is undoubtedly due to the way in which we teach English  
>> (requiring
>> literacy), but it is also because students need to become  
>> accustomed to
>> attending classes, learning to hold and use a pen or pencil, and a  
>> wide
>> range of basic skills that come with being a student in a class.
>>
>> Those of you who have separate classes for those who need literacy:
>> Can
>> you tell us what kind of classes or program you provide?
>>
>> Those who teach both literacy and more educated learners in the same
>> class:  Can you let us know how you manage?  What are some ways in  
>> which
>> you accommodate both sets of needs?
>>
>> Jodi
>>> Forrest,
>>>    I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy
>>> background and those without. These two groups have such different
>>> needs. Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to
>>> meet the needs of either group well and I find that often the  
>>> stronger
>>
>>> students dominate the class, and their drive push the teacher  
>>> forward.
>>
>>> If the instructor does not keep up with the students who are  
>>> learning
>>> at a faster rate, they often become frustrated and leave or mentally
>>> check out. However, if the instructor keeps up with those students,
>>> the others are unable to keep up and they get frustrated.
>>>   I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And  
>>> regardless
>>
>>> of how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.
>>> Jackie
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a  
>>>> factor
>>>> in student performance:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more
>>>> highly educated students do better in terms of  persistence,  
>>>> learning
>>
>>>> gains, and transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect
>>>> this.
>>>> Regrettably
>>>> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior
>>>> education makes, because too few programs track the level of prior
>>>> education of their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO  
>>>> any of
>>
>>>> you do this? That is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference
>>>> level of prior education makes?
>>>> Or
>>>> any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior  
>>>> education
>>
>>>> that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are completely
>>>> illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high school
>>>> graduates, college graduates, etc. --  or is level of prior  
>>>> education
>>
>>>> pretty much of a continuum?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between
>>>> highly educated students and those with less prior education?
>>>> Presumably students with very low levels of education are more  
>>>> likely
>>
>>>> end up in the lower level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning
>>>> levels) why are (almost by
>>>> definition)  in the business of teaching basic literacy and  
>>>> sometimes
>>
>>>> math.
>>>> Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at
>>>> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels,  
>>>> would it
>>
>>>> be desirable to place less highly educated students in separate
>>>> classes from those with more education and adjust the
>>>> curriculum/support systems for them accordingly? Some programs have
>>>> tried "native language literacy" or the Spanish GED. What has been
>>>> the experience of any of you with these approaches? Any other  
>>>> ideas?
>>>> IS there an adult ESL equivalent of "bi-lingual education" that
>>>> should be tried?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas.  
>>>> Because the
>>
>>>> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of
>>>> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates  
>>>> large
>>
>>>> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that
>>>> means), ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very
>>>> little education in their native countries and too little money to
>>>> serve them.  So anyone who has any ideas about how to bridge this
>>>> "education gap" could help us a lot by posting ideas about how to
>>>> close it on this discussion list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Forrest Chisman
>>>>
>>>> Vice President
>>>>
>>>> CAAL
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
>>>> *On
>>>> Behalf Of *Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
>>>> *To:* The Assessment Discussion List
>>>> *Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No
>>>> Questions or Comments?!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Jackie,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be  
>>>> what
>>>> my former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual
>>>> education in the K-12 school system.
>>>>
>>>> Tina
>>>>
>>>> Tina Luffman
>>>> Coordinator, Developmental Education
>>>> Verde Valley Campus
>>>> 928-634-6544
>>>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>>>
>>>>   *"Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>* Sent by:
>>>> assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>>
>>>> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM
>>>>
>>>> Please respond to
>>>> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>>>
>>>> To
>>>>
>>>> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>>>
>>>> cc
>>>>
>>>> Subject
>>>>
>>>> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
>>>> Comments?!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Tina,
>>>>
>>>> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement
>>>> in favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not  
>>>> implemented
>>
>>>> in the best way. For many years people have known that a good
>>>> foundation in literacy in the first language will facilitate  
>>>> learning
>>
>>>> in a second or third language.
>>>>
>>>> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are  
>>>> not
>>>> written.
>>>>
>>>> Jackie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:
>>>>> Hi list members,
>>>>>
>>>>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is  
>>>>> similar to
>>>> that
>>>> of
>>>>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the
>>>>> country
>>>> they
>>>>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather
>>>> quickly
>>>> and
>>>>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their
>>>> country
>>>> or
>>>>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much
>>>>> advancement.
>>>>>
>>>>> This experience relates well to research done among Native  
>>>>> American
>>>> tribes
>>>>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first  
>>>>> taught
>>>> literacy
>>>>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those
>>>>> who
>>>> tried
>>>>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in
>>>>> their
>>>> own
>>>>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish.
>>>>> The concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish
>>>>> were much
>>>> easier
>>>>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps
>>>>> this
>>>> is
>>>>> something deserving more research.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tina
>>>>> Tina Luffman
>>>>> Coordinator, Developmental Education Verde Valley Campus
>>>>> 928-634-6544
>>>>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>>>>
>>>>> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>>>>>
>>>>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>>>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org> Sent by:
>>>>> assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No  
>>>>> Questions or
>>
>>>>> Comments?!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
>>>>> Warning: (not named).
>>>>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for
>>>> more
>>>>> information.
>>>>>
>>>>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about
>>>>> three
>>>> years)
>>>>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
>>>> particularly if
>>>>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest,
>>>>> if
>>>> at
>>>>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first
>>>>> language. I
>>>> would
>>>>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a
>>>> student
>>>>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed
>>>>> because
>>>> he/she
>>>>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we  
>>>>> do is
>>>> try
>>>> to
>>>>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a  
>>>>> hard
>>>> concept
>>>>> in a second language.
>>>>>
>>>>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research  
>>>>> don't
>>>> play
>>>> a
>>>>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers
>>>>> (transitioned
>>>> from
>>>>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
>>>> classes).
>>>>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow
>> advancement.
>>>> It's
>>>>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
>>>> teachers.
>>>>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is
>>>> encouraging
>>>> me
>>>>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think
>>>> we're
>>>>> making some progress.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
>>>>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding  
>>>>> your
>>
>>>>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was
>>>>> very curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of
>>>>> issues
>>>> that
>>>> Dr.
>>>>> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
>>>>> intensity
>>>> of
>>>>> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
>>>>> opportunities
>>>> for
>>>>> professional development.
>>>>>
>>>>> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>>>> student
>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?
>>>>>
>>>>> Please post your questions and comments now.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie Cora
>>>>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie Cora
>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>>> <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>>>> intended
>>>>> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>>>> addressed.
>>>>> If you have received this email in error please notify the system
>>>> manager.
>>>>> This message contains confidential information and is intended  
>>>>> only
>>>> for
>>>> the
>>>>> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should  
>>>>> not
>>
>>>>> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>>> <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>>> <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>> <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>>> <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>> Assessment mailing list
>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>> Professor, Education Department
>> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture Coordinator,
>> Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual  
>> Education
>> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC) 1000 Hilltop Circle,
>> Baltimore, MD 21250
>> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
>> email: crandall at umbc.edu
>> www.umbc.edu/llc/
>> www.umbc.edu/esol/
>> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to noa.sadan at montgomerycollege.edu
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor and Director
Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
University of Maryland Baltimore County
1000 Hilltop Circle
Baltimore, MD 21250
tel:  410-455-2313
fax: 410-455-8947
eml: crandall at umbc.edu




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From forrest at crosslink.net  Fri Feb  8 13:36:58 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:36:58 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1193] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No
	Questions	orComments?!
In-Reply-To: <4CA15A25-2C3D-42D0-BAF3-C0ED4E232D86@umbc.edu>
References: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870AD7F32B@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
	<4CA15A25-2C3D-42D0-BAF3-C0ED4E232D86@umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <004b01c86a81$9934a9f0$cb9dfdd0$@net>

Jim,

 

I?m with Jodi on this. Many people would take exception  with the idea that
the Spanish GED is too hard. I think people who have studied
economic/educational benefits by and large think BOTH the English and
Spanish GED?s, as well as high school diplomas, are TOO EASY. I believe the
research shows that GED holders have a far higher rate of placement in
developmental education than do high school graduates, but that data may be
based on the OLD  GED.

 

Forrest  

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 11:49 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1185] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
orComments?!

 

Jim,

 

I think you've summarized how I feel as well.

 

We can discuss the various options with students, but in the end, if we
offer Spanish Literacy and Spanish GED, it's their choice.  Some will choose
to do everything in English and take longer to do it, but others will choose
to work in their own language.  For some students, the Spanish GED provides
short-term benefits.  But they will still need ESL for future academic or
vocational training, if they have limited English.

 

Have any programs tried to encourage students in Spanish Literacy or Spanish
GED to take ESL classes as well?

 

Jodi

 

 

 

 

On Feb 8, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Schneider, Jim wrote:





I feel compelled to put my two cents in on the Spanish GED. 

 

My experience is that both Andres and Ted have valid points. Here in Eastern
Iowa, there are few bilingual employers. Employers that are bilingual rarely
pay the best wages and are typically short of employees if there are any
signs of INS.  

 

On the other hand, many of the students who have completed the Spanish GED
are already employed, and have fairly decent English skills, but are short
on time. Attaining the GED provides them the opportunity for advancement at
work and/or access to postsecondary education/training. 

 

It has been excruciating watch the one or two who insist on the GED in
English get through the Literature and Writing portions of the test. 

 

And the difficulty of the new Spanish GED tests are such that it is a rare
student who can pass it. The old Spanish GED was attainable for most
learners who had a 6-8th grade education. We have found that it is virtually
impossible for anyone with less than a 10-11 grade education By simply
translating the English test into Spanish and then utilizing the standard
scores/norms of the English test, students who have passed it, have EARNED
their GED. 

 

Jim S.  

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Ted Klein
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 8:49 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1175] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
orComments?!

Andres,

 

I'm not too sure that some of your perspectives haven't been somewhat
altered by living in El Paso. I say that with total respect for El Paso and
for your answer. Let me explain. First, I've lived in Texas most of my life,
except for some time overseas. I know just about all of our border towns,
from El Paso to Brownsville. I've also lived in nine countries outside of
the United States and traveled perhaps in twenty more. AXIOM: All over the
world, border towns are different  from other towns. Persons, regardless of
ancestry,  who live in border towns anywhere tend to be bicultural and
bilingual. They also tend to identify with each other on close levels as
being a well-made "tossed salad." If most or all of your students plan to
stay in El Paso for the rest of their lives, I totally agree with what you
say. However, if they want to go to cities north of the border area; Dallas,
Ft. Worth, Austin, Houston, Waco, or out of state, then the picture changes.
I am almost as comfortable in Spanish as I am in English and have dealt with
persons from every country in Latin America comfortably and successfully, as
well as Spain. However, I do not represent anything close to a majority,
particularly when it comes to having a business. When persons go for job
interviews in non-border towns, being truly bilingual is a great asset and
can even result in higher pay and better opportunities. That is true for
Spanish speakers and English speakers. However, most of your persons who
have had to take the GED in Spanish are not truly bilingual. That's a fact
and when they go for a job interview, the human resources person doesn't
need paperwork to know that there may be communication problems with clients
and on the telephone. The fact is that life is short. However it is long
enough for persons to spend a couple of more years acquiring English if it
gives them more options in life. Again, if they plan to spend their lives in
a border town, this may not be a problem at all. 

 

Three years ago, my wife and I and one of our colleagues, took an ESL
teaching gig at a cookie factory in Austin. Quite a few of their employees
did not speak English and the company wanted to fix that situation. There
were 27 persons who had volunteered to take English classes at work, maybe
six hours a week. The first problem was how to determine divisions of 27
students among three teachers. I got out a brief "test" that I had used to
determine readiness for the ALCPT tests in the past.

 

Here is a copy:

 

ORAL INTERVIEW QUESTIONS TO DETERMINE ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE

 

                                                      Block 2
Ted Klein

 

Questions marked with an asterisk * are mandatory. Of the remaining
questions, ten should be selected at random. Speech of the interviewer will
be at normal speed and clarity, with NO exaggeration.

 

1. What is your name please?*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

2. Where are you from?* -------

 

3. What part of XXXXXXX are you from?-------

 

4. What is your native language? -------

 

5. How long have you been in America? -------

 

6. Do you read English?* -------

 

7. Did you study English in your country? -------

 

8. How long did you study English? -------

 

9. Are you enjoying the U.S.A? -------

 

10. What do you like here? -------

 

11. Is there anything that you don't like? -------

 

12. Have you studied any other languages besides English? -------

 

13. Why do you want to learn English? -------

 

14. How many years of education have you had? -------

 

15. Do you have any hobbies? What are they? -------

 

16. Do you have any American friends to practice English with? -------

 

17. Do you work?  Where? -------

 

18. What are your plans for the future? -------

 

19. Why did you come to America? -------

 

20. Do you have any questions for me? -------

 

 

Mark responses: 0 no answer.   0+ telegraphic/very simple response. 

1 simple, but complete response.  1+ functional and clear response.

2   somewhat elaborate, fairly clear and mostly grammatical response.

 

Interviewees with ten or more answers in the 1+ to 2 range should be ready
to take a written

proficiency test of listening and reading skills. Non-readers are excluded.
(ref: Ques. 6)

 

The three of us interviewed the 27 candidates together. 19 out of the 27
were not able to answer the second question: e.g. (Teacher) Where are you
from?

(Candidate) ?Mande?  (Teacher) Where are you from? ?Como?  (Teacher) Are you
from Mexico? (Candidate) M?xico, "jes." One answered, "M?xico, no, Peru s?."

 

The 8 students who were able to answer that question and maybe four or five
more questions were assigned to an "advanced class." The others were split
into two groups. What happened here? Many of these persons had lived in
Austin for some time. Some for up to ten years. Most had families. The
families naturally used Spanish at home, even their children who spoke
English at school. They had Spanish-speaking supervisors. They watched
television in Spanish. They ate at Mexican restaurants. They went to
Spanish-speaking doctors. 95% of their friends were Hispanic. In plain
language, if they wanted to stay at the cookie factory, making cookies, they
didn't need English, although the company preferred that they know English
for upward mobility. This program went on for three or four months.The
company merged and our program ended. We did not use Spanish in class. In
early training I use materials that I developed based on some of the old
"direct methods;" picture flashcards, Cuisenaire rods, etc. and we also
concentrated strongly on English sounds, particularly listening and
identification. The program went surprisingly well and many of the students
were very disappointed when it ended. They had already found some new places
to go and some were acquiring English-speaking friends.

 

So what is the good news? Several of our former students have entered the
Austin Community College AE program and are doing well. One of them is in my
class now. She has a child and often works at night at the cookie factory.
Sometimes she comes in looking very tired, but she's surviving. She wants to
be a Certified Nursing Assistant. She'll make it! She plans to take the GED
in English next year and enter the Nursing Program at ACC. Most of her
future patients will not be bilingual and she will be ready for them. 

 

That's about it.

 

Ted  

www.tedklein-ESL.com

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: andresmuro at aol.com 

To: assessment at nifl.gov 

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 12:02 PM

Subject: [Assessment 1153] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

 

Ted:

How would the employer know the language that Julian took the GED in?
In most states the certificate does not tell you the Language. Texas is one
of the few states that tells you the language. However, it is so hard to
find that most people wouldn't even know. I have a hard time finding the
language reference even though I have seen millions of certificates. Fact is
most employers don't even know that people can take the GED in anything
other than English, don't ask and do not scrutinize certificates to figure
out scores, language, etc. A few might, but the majority don't. For low
literacy Spanish speakers it may take them a couple of years to be ready to
take the GED in Spanish. It make take them 2 more years to be ready for the
English GED. Would you rather hold them two more years. They can take the
GED in Spanish and continue to study English. Once they have sufficient
English, they can decide if they want to take it in English or to move on to
other things.

Andres

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Klein <taklein at austin.rr.com>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 6:58 am
Subject: [Assessment 1150] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

Jodi and Andres,

 

There is one very real problem with taking the GED in Spanish that I'm aware
of. If you have two immigrants, Roberto and Ju?n, and they both apply for
the same job and if Ju?n took the GED in Spanish and Roberto took it in
English, guess who gets the job?

Yes, life isn't fair, but most U.S. businesses prefer persons who have gone
"all the way" with English. My students and I have discussed this and they
have seen or know of this situation with their friends and family members.
That is why many AE students remain longer in our ESL classes. Of course in
many border towns, this may not be as important since many of the employers
are Hispanic or are native speakers of English who are functional in
Spanish. However, many customers of the businesses will need to use English.


 

In my current class in Austin, Texas with eleven students, five different
languages are spoken. Should we offer the GED in Arabic, Chinese, Korean,
and Juba as well as Spanish?

 

 

Ted

www.tedklein-ESL.com 

 

 

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: andresmuro at aol.com 

To: crandall at umbc.edu ; assessment at nifl.gov 

Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 5:21 PM

Subject: [Assessment 1146] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

 

Jodi:

The credit ESL program in the college is very academic. However it provides
students with financial aid and other goodies. We feel that the students
will not do well in a credit academic ESL program until they have a level
comparable to GED in their native language. Also, a GED certificate is a way
to demonstrate ability to benefit to qualify for financial aid. Those
students who get into the credit ESL program without native language
literacy don't do well. 

Students can attend other ESL classes in the community while they are
attending our classes. We stopped providing ESL because of limited funding
to provide what we would consider meaningful ESL. Also, our Spanish GED
program is fairly intensive and our students would not have enough time to
attend an additional program. We have a few students who may be attending
our classes and an ESL class concurrently. Those are a minority

The truth is that we started as an ESL literacy program many years ago.
There was virtually no funding for  literacy ESL unless it  had all kind of
testing requirements. Also, it is very hard to train teachers to be really
good at ESL. The system that encourages large number of untrained part
timers prevents this from happening. 

I know that a lot of people in these listservs claim exemplary service and
illustrate  with examples of what they have done. I don't doubt that  their
claims are 100% true. However,  we are in the minority. If I could get you
and Heide and Elsa and Andy Nash and Leonore and Deborah Schwartz, and Anson
Green and Federico and others to be my ESL teachers, I would have the best
program in the world. However, the fact is that in addition to the barriers
that ESL students face in their daily lives, plus the bureaucratic and
assessment barriers that the system creates for teachers and students, plus
the difficulty hiring and retaining highly qualified ESL staff makes it very
difficult to have a successful ESL program. 

I feel that until we get rid of WIA/NRS it will be tough to create good
stuff in a systematic way. 

Andres



 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 1:27 pm
Subject: [Assessment 1141] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

Andres,



























It is great that you provide Spanish language literacy and GED classes for













your students.  There's no question that native language literacy













contributes not just to the development of the first language, but also to













English language development when students take oral ESL classes.  There













is some research in this area by Michele Burtoff with Haitians in the U.S.













and there is a lot of research (see especially research by David Ramirez













which compares children who had 6, 3 or no years of bilingual education)













that shows that providing bilingual education not only has all the













benefits that would be expected, but students also achieve in English as













well or better than those who only had instruction in English.



























We also found that Spanish GED classes had large numbers of students at













the colleges, since students who take the GED in Spanish are able to













bypass the need for extensive ESL just to get this credential.  They might













want to take ESL as well, but the desire for the GED is often for













work-related reasons.  I'm not clear on why you ask students to wait until













after they have passed the GED to take ESL classes.  Can you tell us a













little more about that?



























Of course not all students who enroll in adult ESL are Spanish speakers













and there may not be enough who speak any language to provide literacy













classes for them in their own language, but programs might try to partner













with immigrant or refugee-related community-based organizations which













could reach more students and also identify someone to provide the













instruction.  Still, there will  be students who will not be able to take













literacy classes in their own languages and for them, a separate ESL













literacy class seems to be the best option.



























It would be great to hear from others about their experiences both with













first language (Spanish and other languages) literacy classes, Spanish GED













classes, and literacy ESL classes.



























How do you place students in your literacy classes?  Do you use a













standardized test or do you have informal ways of determining if someone













would be better served in a literacy ESL class?









































Jodi



























>













>  Problem is that in many ESL people are placed in ESL classes based on an













> English placement multiple choice test. A student with advanced education













> in L1 and one with little education in L1 may know very little English













> and they may both be placed in the same level. The student with advance













> education will progress much faster than the one with little education.













> The advanced L1 student will understand concepts like sentence,













> paragraph, verb, subject, direct object, adjective, composition and essay













> readily. The one with with little education will need to understand these













> concepts. It takes a while for people to master these concepts. A highly













> educated L2? learner will likely progress faster academically in a second













> language than a fluent native speaker of that? language with limited













> academic education, for the same reason. This is observed regularly in













> universities all over the US. highly educated foreign students who













> acquired English as L2 recently will do better than their Eng













>  lish speaking counterparts in academic tasks in English. Jim Cummins has













> articulated this clearly with his BICS and CALPS.













>













> In our program at El Paso Community College we have found evidence of













> this. We stopped doing literacy ESL a while back for this reason. The













> college has an academic ESL program. Instead of doing ESL literacy we













> started offering Spanish Literacy and GED many years ago since the vast













> majority of our students are Spanish speakers. Once our students acquire













> their Spanish GED they transition into the ESL program and do better than













> those students who don't have L1 academic skills. Even if takes them a













> while to acquire the L1 literacy, they will do better. Those with no L1













> literacy often stay in ESL forever and they drop out, start again in













> another program, drop out and continue the same pattern. I think that this













> happens because of the mixture of academically ready students and those













> that are not ready, since most ESL programs focus on traditional













> academics. For L1 low literacy students to be able to progress in L2 there













> has to be a program specifically designed for them that teache













>  s skills in L2 in new and innovative ways without interference from













> academically skilled L1 students. Right now we don't have a system that













> systematically does this, and the WIA/NRS system prevents this form













> happening.













>













> Hope that this makes sense,













>













> Andres













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> -----Original Message-----













> From: Jackie Coelho <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>













> To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>













> Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 5:01 am













> Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or













> Comments?!













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> Forrest,













>













>













> ?? I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy













> background and those without. These two groups have such different needs.













> Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs













> of either group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate













> the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor













> does not keep up with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they













> often become frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the













> instructor keeps up with those students, the others are unable to keep up













> and they get frustrated.













>













>













>













> ? I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of













> how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.













>













>













> Jackie













>













> ?













>













>













> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in













> student performance:













>













>













> ?













>













>













> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly













> educated students do better in terms of ?persistence, learning gains, and













> transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably













> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education













> makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of













> their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That













> is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education













> makes? Or any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior













> education that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are













> completely illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high













> school graduates, college graduates, etc. -- ?or is level of prior













> education pretty much of a continuum?













>













>













>













> ?













>













>













> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly













> educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably students













> with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower













> level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by













> definition) ?in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes













> math. Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at













> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be













> desirable to place less highly educated students in separate classes from













> those with more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for













> them accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or













> the Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these













> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of













> "bi-lingual education" that should be tried?













>













>













>













> ?













>













>













> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the













> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of













> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large













> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means),













> ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very little education













> in their native countries and too little money to serve them. ?So anyone













> who has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a













> lot by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.













>













>













>













> ?













>













>













> Forrest Chisman













>













>













> Vice President













>













>













> CAAL













>













>













> ?













>













>













> ??













>













>













> ?













>













>













>













>













> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
<mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov?> ] On













> Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu













>













> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM













> To: The Assessment Discussion List













> Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or













> Comments?!













>













>













>













>













>













>













> ?













>













>













>













> Hi Jackie,













>













> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my













> former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual education













> in the K-12 school system.













>













>













> Tina













>













> Tina Luffman













> Coordinator, Developmental Education













> Verde Valley Campus













> 928-634-6544













> tina_luffman at yc.edu













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> "Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>













>













> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov













>













>













> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> Please respond to













> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> To













>













>













>













>













>













> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> cc













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> Subject













>













>













>













>













>













> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or ? ? ?













> ?Comments?!













>













>













>













>













>













>













> ?













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> Hi Tina,













>













> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in













> favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in













>













> the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation













> in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second













> or third language.













>













> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not













> written.













>













>













> Jackie













>













>













> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:













>













>> Hi list members,













>>













>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to that













>> of













>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country













>> they













>













>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather quickly













>> and













>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their country













>> or













>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much













>













>> advancement.













>>













>> This experience relates well to research done among Native American













>> tribes













>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught













>> literacy













>













>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who













>> tried













>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their own













>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The













>













>> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much













>> easier













>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this is













>> something deserving more research.













>













>>













>> Tina













>> Tina Luffman













>> Coordinator, Developmental Education













>> Verde Valley Campus













>> 928-634-6544













>> tina_luffman at yc.edu













>













>>













>> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----













>>













>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>













>













>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>













>> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov













>













>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM













>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or













>> Comments?!













>>













>>













>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed













>













>> Warning: (not named).













>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more













>> information.













>>













>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three













>> years)













>













>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,













>> particularly if













>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at













>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I













>> would













>













>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a













>> student













>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because













>> he/she













>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try













>> to













>













>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard













>> concept













>> in a second language.













>>













>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play













>> a













>













>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned













>> from













>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than













>> classes).













>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.













>> It's













>













>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL













>> teachers.













>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging













>> me













>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're













>













>> making some progress.













>>













>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?













>>













>> ________________________________













>>













>













>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora













>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM













>













>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov













>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!













>













>>













>>













>> Hello everyone,













>>













>> I'm so surprised! ?No one has anything to comment on regarding your













>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? ?I was very













>













>> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that













>> Dr.













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From forrest at crosslink.net  Fri Feb  8 13:38:48 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:38:48 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1194] Re: Multiple Intelligences and
	Differentiated	Instruction--registration opens
In-Reply-To: <00ca01c869c9$d4d08f00$030ba8c0@D14J7YD1>
References: <00ca01c869c9$d4d08f00$030ba8c0@D14J7YD1>
Message-ID: <005001c86a81$da873a80$8f95af80$@net>

Very interesting. Anyone going to try it?

 

Forrest

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Kaye Beall
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:41 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1181] Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
Instruction--registration opens

 

World Education is pleased to offer Multiple Intelligences and
Differentiated Instruction as an online training. 

 

The course syllabus and registration details are attached. Contact Kaye
Beall at kaye_beall at worlded.org with questions.

************************

 

Adult Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated Instruction

 

Course Dates: March 12?May 13, 2008; Online chats during Lessons 3, 4, and 5

 

Course Description

Research conducted by the National Center for the Study of Adult Learning
and Literacy shows that instructional practices inspired by Multiple
Intelligences (MI) theory resulted in high levels of authentic instruction
and student engagement.

Integrate your understanding of Multiple Intelligences (MI) theory with the
power of differentiated instruction in this facilitated, eight-session
course. You?ll learn how to apply MI theory and differentiate instruction
for all levels of adult basic education and English for speakers of other
languages. The facilitator will guide you as you develop your own MI-based
lessons.

 

Objectives

Upon completion of this course you will be able to:

*Apply the theory of multiple intelligences (MI) to design learning
activities that match your learning objectives

*Use varying methods of differentiated instruction (DI) that address the
different skills and interests of your learners

*Apply knowledge of your own MI profile to your classroom teaching

*Produce and reflect on a lesson or unit using both MI and DI

 

Required Text:

Viens, Julie and Silja Kallenbach. Multiple Intelligences and Adult
Literacy: A Sourcebook for Practitioners. (New York: Teachers College Press,
2004. Copies of the required textbook can be obtained from the publisher,
Teachers College Press (TCP), the publisher at
http://store.tcpress.com/0807743461.shtml. The cost is $27.95 per copy.

 

Course Format and Schedule: facilitated, online

During this eight-week course, you will engage in self-paced activities and
readings, as well as asynchronous discussions with the facilitators and
course participants. Three synchronous chats will be scheduled during
Lessons 3, 4, and 5.

 

Syllabus: See attached PDF?AMI Course Details.

 

Course Facilitator: Wendy Qui?ones

 

Estimated Completion Time: 40 hours

 

Registration: Complete and return the attached registration form-[PDF].
Payment must be received prior to enrollment. Registration is limited to 20
participants.

 

Cancellation policy: World Education reserves the right to cancel the course
if the minimum number of registrants is not met by March 4, 2008.

 

Kaye Beall

Project Director

World Education

6760 West Street

Linn Grove, IN 46711

765-717-3942

kaye_beall at worlded.org

www.worlded.org

 

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From jschneider at eicc.edu  Fri Feb  8 14:22:16 2008
From: jschneider at eicc.edu (Schneider, Jim)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:22:16 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1195] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No
	QuestionsorComments?!
In-Reply-To: <4CA15A25-2C3D-42D0-BAF3-C0ED4E232D86@umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870AD7F759@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>

Most of our Spanish GED students are attending the ESL classes as well.
 
Jim

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 10:49 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1185] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No QuestionsorComments?!


Jim, 

I think you've summarized how I feel as well.

We can discuss the various options with students, but in the end, if we offer Spanish Literacy and Spanish GED, it's their choice.  Some will choose to do everything in English and take longer to do it, but others will choose to work in their own language.  For some students, the Spanish GED provides short-term benefits.  But they will still need ESL for future academic or vocational training, if they have limited English.

Have any programs tried to encourage students in Spanish Literacy or Spanish GED to take ESL classes as well?

Jodi
 



On Feb 8, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Schneider, Jim wrote:


	I feel compelled to put my two cents in on the Spanish GED. 
	 
	My experience is that both Andres and Ted have valid points. Here in Eastern Iowa, there are few bilingual employers. Employers that are bilingual rarely pay the best wages and are typically short of employees if there are any signs of INS.  
	 
	On the other hand, many of the students who have completed the Spanish GED are already employed, and have fairly decent English skills, but are short on time. Attaining the GED provides them the opportunity for advancement at work and/or access to postsecondary education/training. 
	 
	It has been excruciating watch the one or two who insist on the GED in English get through the Literature and Writing portions of the test. 
	 
	And the difficulty of the new Spanish GED tests are such that it is a rare student who can pass it. The old Spanish GED was attainable for most learners who had a 6-8th grade education. We have found that it is virtually impossible for anyone with less than a 10-11 grade education By simply translating the English test into Spanish and then utilizing the standard scores/norms of the English test, students who have passed it, have EARNED their GED. 
	 
	Jim S.  

________________________________

	From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Ted Klein
	Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 8:49 AM
	To: The Assessment Discussion List
	Subject: [Assessment 1175] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions orComments?!
	
	
	Andres,
	 
	I'm not too sure that some of your perspectives haven't been somewhat altered by living in El Paso. I say that with total respect for El Paso and for your answer. Let me explain. First, I've lived in Texas most of my life, except for some time overseas. I know just about all of our border towns, from El Paso to Brownsville. I've also lived in nine countries outside of the United States and traveled perhaps in twenty more. AXIOM: All over the world, border towns are different  from other towns. Persons, regardless of ancestry,  who live in border towns anywhere tend to be bicultural and bilingual. They also tend to identify with each other on close levels as being a well-made "tossed salad." If most or all of your students plan to stay in El Paso for the rest of their lives, I totally agree with what you say. However, if they want to go to cities north of the border area; Dallas, Ft. Worth, Austin, Houston, Waco, or out of state, then the picture changes. I am almost as comfortable in Spanish as I am in English and have dealt with persons from every country in Latin America comfortably and successfully, as well as Spain. However, I do not represent anything close to a majority, particularly when it comes to having a business. When persons go for job interviews in non-border towns, being truly bilingual is a great asset and can even result in higher pay and better opportunities. That is true for Spanish speakers and English speakers. However, most of your persons who have had to take the GED in Spanish are not truly bilingual. That's a fact and when they go for a job interview, the human resources person doesn't need paperwork to know that there may be communication problems with clients and on the telephone. The fact is that life is short. However it is long enough for persons to spend a couple of more years acquiring English if it gives them more options in life. Again, if they plan to spend their lives in a border town, this may not be a problem at all. 
	 
	Three years ago, my wife and I and one of our colleagues, took an ESL teaching gig at a cookie factory in Austin. Quite a few of their employees did not speak English and the company wanted to fix that situation. There were 27 persons who had volunteered to take English classes at work, maybe six hours a week. The first problem was how to determine divisions of 27 students among three teachers. I got out a brief "test" that I had used to determine readiness for the ALCPT tests in the past.
	 
	Here is a copy:
	 
	ORAL INTERVIEW QUESTIONS TO DETERMINE ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE
	
	                                                      Block 2                 Ted Klein
	
	Questions marked with an asterisk * are mandatory. Of the remaining questions, ten should be selected at random. Speech of the interviewer will be at normal speed and clarity, with NO exaggeration.
	
	1. What is your name please?* -----------------------------------------------------------------------
	
	2. Where are you from?* -------
	
	3. What part of XXXXXXX are you from?-------
	
	4. What is your native language? -------
	
	5. How long have you been in America? -------
	
	6. Do you read English?* -------
	
	7. Did you study English in your country? -------
	
	8. How long did you study English? -------
	
	9. Are you enjoying the U.S.A? -------
	
	10. What do you like here? -------
	
	11. Is there anything that you don't like? -------
	
	12. Have you studied any other languages besides English? -------
	
	13. Why do you want to learn English? -------
	
	14. How many years of education have you had? -------
	
	15. Do you have any hobbies? What are they? -------
	
	16. Do you have any American friends to practice English with? -------
	
	17. Do you work?  Where? -------
	
	18. What are your plans for the future? -------
	
	19. Why did you come to America? -------
	
	20. Do you have any questions for me? -------
	
	
	Mark responses: 0 no answer.   0+ telegraphic/very simple response. 
	1 simple, but complete response.  1+ functional and clear response.
	2   somewhat elaborate, fairly clear and mostly grammatical response.
	
	Interviewees with ten or more answers in the 1+ to 2 range should be ready to take a written
	proficiency test of listening and reading skills. Non-readers are excluded. (ref: Ques. 6)
	 
	The three of us interviewed the 27 candidates together. 19 out of the 27 were not able to answer the second question: e.g. (Teacher) Where are you from?
	(Candidate) ?Mande?  (Teacher) Where are you from? ?Como?  (Teacher) Are you from Mexico? (Candidate) M?xico, "jes." One answered, "M?xico, no, Peru s?."
	 
	The 8 students who were able to answer that question and maybe four or five more questions were assigned to an "advanced class." The others were split into two groups. What happened here? Many of these persons had lived in Austin for some time. Some for up to ten years. Most had families. The families naturally used Spanish at home, even their children who spoke English at school. They had Spanish-speaking supervisors. They watched television in Spanish. They ate at Mexican restaurants. They went to Spanish-speaking doctors. 95% of their friends were Hispanic. In plain language, if they wanted to stay at the cookie factory, making cookies, they didn't need English, although the company preferred that they know English for upward mobility. This program went on for three or four months.The company merged and our program ended. We did not use Spanish in class. In early training I use materials that I developed based on some of the old "direct methods;" picture flashcards, Cuisenaire rods, etc. and we also concentrated strongly on English sounds, particularly listening and identification. The program went surprisingly well and many of the students were very disappointed when it ended. They had already found some new places to go and some were acquiring English-speaking friends.
	 
	So what is the good news? Several of our former students have entered the Austin Community College AE program and are doing well. One of them is in my class now. She has a child and often works at night at the cookie factory. Sometimes she comes in looking very tired, but she's surviving. She wants to be a Certified Nursing Assistant. She'll make it! She plans to take the GED in English next year and enter the Nursing Program at ACC. Most of her future patients will not be bilingual and she will be ready for them. 
	 
	That's about it.
	 
	Ted  
	www.tedklein-ESL.com
	 
	----- Original Message ----- 

		From: andresmuro at aol.com 
		To: assessment at nifl.gov 
		Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 12:02 PM
		Subject: [Assessment 1153] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!

		Ted:
		
		How would the employer know the language that Julian took the GED in?
		In most states the certificate does not tell you the Language. Texas is one of the few states that tells you the language. However, it is so hard to find that most people wouldn't even know. I have a hard time finding the language reference even though I have seen millions of certificates. Fact is most employers don't even know that people can take the GED in anything other than English, don't ask and do not scrutinize certificates to figure out scores, language, etc. A few might, but the majority don't. For low literacy Spanish speakers it may take them a couple of years to be ready to take the GED in Spanish. It make take them 2 more years to be ready for the English GED. Would you rather hold them two more years. They can take the GED in Spanish and continue to study English. Once they have sufficient English, they can decide if they want to take it in English or to move on to other things.
		
		Andres
		


		-----Original Message-----
		From: Ted Klein <taklein at austin.rr.com>
		To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
		Sent: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 6:58 am
		Subject: [Assessment 1150] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!
		
		
		Jodi and Andres,
		 
		There is one very real problem with taking the GED in Spanish that I'm aware of. If you have two immigrants, Roberto and Ju?n, and they both apply for the same job and if Ju?n took the GED in Spanish and Roberto took it in English, guess who gets the job?
		Yes, life isn't fair, but most U.S. businesses prefer persons who have gone "all the way" with English. My students and I have discussed this and they have seen or know of this situation with their friends and family members. That is why many AE students remain longer in our ESL classes. Of course in many border towns, this may not be as important since many of the employers are Hispanic or are native speakers of English who are functional in Spanish. However, many customers of the businesses will need to use English. 
		 
		In my current class in Austin, Texas with eleven students, five different languages are spoken. Should we offer the GED in Arabic, Chinese, Korean, and Juba as well as Spanish?
		 
		 
		Ted
		www.tedklein-ESL.com 
		 
		 
		 
		----- Original Message ----- 

			From: andresmuro at aol.com 
			To: crandall at umbc.edu ; assessment at nifl.gov 
			Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 5:21 PM
			Subject: [Assessment 1146] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!

			Jodi:
			
			The credit ESL program in the college is very academic. However it provides students with financial aid and other goodies. We feel that the students will not do well in a credit academic ESL program until they have a level comparable to GED in their native language. Also, a GED certificate is a way to demonstrate ability to benefit to qualify for financial aid. Those students who get into the credit ESL program without native language literacy don't do well. 
			
			Students can attend other ESL classes in the community while they are attending our classes. We stopped providing ESL because of limited funding to provide what we would consider meaningful ESL. Also, our Spanish GED program is fairly intensive and our students would not have enough time to attend an additional program. We have a few students who may be attending our classes and an ESL class concurrently. Those are a minority
			
			The truth is that we started as an ESL literacy program many years ago. There was virtually no funding for  literacy ESL unless it  had all kind of testing requirements. Also, it is very hard to train teachers to be really good at ESL. The system that encourages large number of untrained part timers prevents this from happening. 
			
			I know that a lot of people in these listservs claim exemplary service and illustrate  with examples of what they have done. I don't doubt that  their claims are 100% true. However,  we are in the minority. If I could get you and Heide and Elsa and Andy Nash and Leonore and Deborah Schwartz, and Anson Green and Federico and others to be my ESL teachers, I would have the best program in the world. However, the fact is that in addition to the barriers that ESL students face in their daily lives, plus the bureaucratic and assessment barriers that the system creates for teachers and students, plus the difficulty hiring and retaining highly qualified ESL staff makes it very difficult to have a successful ESL program. 
			
			I feel that until we get rid of WIA/NRS it will be tough to create good stuff in a systematic way. 
			
			Andres
			
			
			


			-----Original Message-----
			From: JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu>
			To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
			Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 1:27 pm
			Subject: [Assessment 1141] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!
			
			
			Andres,
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			It is great that you provide Spanish language literacy and GED classes for
			
			
			
			your students.  There's no question that native language literacy
			
			
			
			contributes not just to the development of the first language, but also to
			
			
			
			English language development when students take oral ESL classes.  There
			
			
			
			is some research in this area by Michele Burtoff with Haitians in the U.S.
			
			
			
			and there is a lot of research (see especially research by David Ramirez
			
			
			
			which compares children who had 6, 3 or no years of bilingual education)
			
			
			
			that shows that providing bilingual education not only has all the
			
			
			
			benefits that would be expected, but students also achieve in English as
			
			
			
			well or better than those who only had instruction in English.
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			We also found that Spanish GED classes had large numbers of students at
			
			
			
			the colleges, since students who take the GED in Spanish are able to
			
			
			
			bypass the need for extensive ESL just to get this credential.  They might
			
			
			
			want to take ESL as well, but the desire for the GED is often for
			
			
			
			work-related reasons.  I'm not clear on why you ask students to wait until
			
			
			
			after they have passed the GED to take ESL classes.  Can you tell us a
			
			
			
			little more about that?
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			Of course not all students who enroll in adult ESL are Spanish speakers
			
			
			
			and there may not be enough who speak any language to provide literacy
			
			
			
			classes for them in their own language, but programs might try to partner
			
			
			
			with immigrant or refugee-related community-based organizations which
			
			
			
			could reach more students and also identify someone to provide the
			
			
			
			instruction.  Still, there will  be students who will not be able to take
			
			
			
			literacy classes in their own languages and for them, a separate ESL
			
			
			
			literacy class seems to be the best option.
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			It would be great to hear from others about their experiences both with
			
			
			
			first language (Spanish and other languages) literacy classes, Spanish GED
			
			
			
			classes, and literacy ESL classes.
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			How do you place students in your literacy classes?  Do you use a
			
			
			
			standardized test or do you have informal ways of determining if someone
			
			
			
			would be better served in a literacy ESL class?
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			Jodi
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>  Problem is that in many ESL people are placed in ESL classes based on an
			
			
			
			> English placement multiple choice test. A student with advanced education
			
			
			
			> in L1 and one with little education in L1 may know very little English
			
			
			
			> and they may both be placed in the same level. The student with advance
			
			
			
			> education will progress much faster than the one with little education.
			
			
			
			> The advanced L1 student will understand concepts like sentence,
			
			
			
			> paragraph, verb, subject, direct object, adjective, composition and essay
			
			
			
			> readily. The one with with little education will need to understand these
			
			
			
			> concepts. It takes a while for people to master these concepts. A highly
			
			
			
			> educated L2? learner will likely progress faster academically in a second
			
			
			
			> language than a fluent native speaker of that? language with limited
			
			
			
			> academic education, for the same reason. This is observed regularly in
			
			
			
			> universities all over the US. highly educated foreign students who
			
			
			
			> acquired English as L2 recently will do better than their Eng
			
			
			
			>  lish speaking counterparts in academic tasks in English. Jim Cummins has
			
			
			
			> articulated this clearly with his BICS and CALPS.
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> In our program at El Paso Community College we have found evidence of
			
			
			
			> this. We stopped doing literacy ESL a while back for this reason. The
			
			
			
			> college has an academic ESL program. Instead of doing ESL literacy we
			
			
			
			> started offering Spanish Literacy and GED many years ago since the vast
			
			
			
			> majority of our students are Spanish speakers. Once our students acquire
			
			
			
			> their Spanish GED they transition into the ESL program and do better than
			
			
			
			> those students who don't have L1 academic skills. Even if takes them a
			
			
			
			> while to acquire the L1 literacy, they will do better. Those with no L1
			
			
			
			> literacy often stay in ESL forever and they drop out, start again in
			
			
			
			> another program, drop out and continue the same pattern. I think that this
			
			
			
			> happens because of the mixture of academically ready students and those
			
			
			
			> that are not ready, since most ESL programs focus on traditional
			
			
			
			> academics. For L1 low literacy students to be able to progress in L2 there
			
			
			
			> has to be a program specifically designed for them that teache
			
			
			
			>  s skills in L2 in new and innovative ways without interference from
			
			
			
			> academically skilled L1 students. Right now we don't have a system that
			
			
			
			> systematically does this, and the WIA/NRS system prevents this form
			
			
			
			> happening.
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> Hope that this makes sense,
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> Andres
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> -----Original Message-----
			
			
			
			> From: Jackie Coelho <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>
			
			
			
			> To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
			
			
			
			> Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 5:01 am
			
			
			
			> Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
			
			
			
			> Comments?!
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> Forrest,
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> ?? I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy
			
			
			
			> background and those without. These two groups have such different needs.
			
			
			
			> Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs
			
			
			
			> of either group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate
			
			
			
			> the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor
			
			
			
			> does not keep up with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they
			
			
			
			> often become frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the
			
			
			
			> instructor keeps up with those students, the others are unable to keep up
			
			
			
			> and they get frustrated.
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> ? I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of
			
			
			
			> how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> Jackie
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> ?
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in
			
			
			
			> student performance:
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> ?
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly
			
			
			
			> educated students do better in terms of ?persistence, learning gains, and
			
			
			
			> transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably
			
			
			
			> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education
			
			
			
			> makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of
			
			
			
			> their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That
			
			
			
			> is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education
			
			
			
			> makes? Or any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior
			
			
			
			> education that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are
			
			
			
			> completely illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high
			
			
			
			> school graduates, college graduates, etc. -- ?or is level of prior
			
			
			
			> education pretty much of a continuum?
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> ?
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly
			
			
			
			> educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably students
			
			
			
			> with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower
			
			
			
			> level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by
			
			
			
			> definition) ?in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes
			
			
			
			> math. Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at
			
			
			
			> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be
			
			
			
			> desirable to place less highly educated students in separate classes from
			
			
			
			> those with more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for
			
			
			
			> them accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or
			
			
			
			> the Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these
			
			
			
			> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of
			
			
			
			> "bi-lingual education" that should be tried?
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> ?
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the
			
			
			
			> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of
			
			
			
			> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large
			
			
			
			> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means),
			
			
			
			> ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very little education
			
			
			
			> in their native countries and too little money to serve them. ?So anyone
			
			
			
			> who has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a
			
			
			
			> lot by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> ?
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> Forrest Chisman
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> Vice President
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> CAAL
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> ?
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> ??
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> ?
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov <mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov?> ] On
			
			
			
			> Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
			
			
			
			> To: The Assessment Discussion List
			
			
			
			> Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
			
			
			
			> Comments?!
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> ?
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> Hi Jackie,
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my
			
			
			
			> former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual education
			
			
			
			> in the K-12 school system.
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> Tina
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> Tina Luffman
			
			
			
			> Coordinator, Developmental Education
			
			
			
			> Verde Valley Campus
			
			
			
			> 928-634-6544
			
			
			
			> tina_luffman at yc.edu
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> "Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> Please respond to
			
			
			
			> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> To
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> cc
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> Subject
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or ? ? ?
			
			
			
			> ?Comments?!
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> ?
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> Hi Tina,
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in
			
			
			
			> favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation
			
			
			
			> in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second
			
			
			
			> or third language.
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not
			
			
			
			> written.
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> Jackie
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>> Hi list members,
			
			
			
			>>
			
			
			
			>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to that
			
			
			
			>> of
			
			
			
			>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country
			
			
			
			>> they
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather quickly
			
			
			
			>> and
			
			
			
			>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their country
			
			
			
			>> or
			
			
			
			>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>> advancement.
			
			
			
			>>
			
			
			
			>> This experience relates well to research done among Native American
			
			
			
			>> tribes
			
			
			
			>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
			
			
			
			>> literacy
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who
			
			
			
			>> tried
			
			
			
			>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their own
			
			
			
			>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much
			
			
			
			>> easier
			
			
			
			>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this is
			
			
			
			>> something deserving more research.
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>>
			
			
			
			>> Tina
			
			
			
			>> Tina Luffman
			
			
			
			>> Coordinator, Developmental Education
			
			
			
			>> Verde Valley Campus
			
			
			
			>> 928-634-6544
			
			
			
			>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>>
			
			
			
			>> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
			
			
			
			>>
			
			
			
			>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>
			
			
			
			>> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
			
			
			
			>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
			
			
			
			>> Comments?!
			
			
			
			>>
			
			
			
			>>
			
			
			
			>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>> Warning: (not named).
			
			
			
			>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more
			
			
			
			>> information.
			
			
			
			>>
			
			
			
			>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three
			
			
			
			>> years)
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
			
			
			
			>> particularly if
			
			
			
			>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at
			
			
			
			>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I
			
			
			
			>> would
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a
			
			
			
			>> student
			
			
			
			>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because
			
			
			
			>> he/she
			
			
			
			>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try
			
			
			
			>> to
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
			
			
			
			>> concept
			
			
			
			>> in a second language.
			
			
			
			>>
			
			
			
			>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play
			
			
			
			>> a
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned
			
			
			
			>> from
			
			
			
			>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
			
			
			
			>> classes).
			
			
			
			>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.
			
			
			
			>> It's
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
			
			
			
			>> teachers.
			
			
			
			>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging
			
			
			
			>> me
			
			
			
			>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>> making some progress.
			
			
			
			>>
			
			
			
			>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
			
			
			
			>>
			
			
			
			>> ________________________________
			
			
			
			>>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
			
			
			
			>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
			
			
			
			>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>>
			
			
			
			>>
			
			
			
			>> Hello everyone,
			
			
			
			>>
			
			
			
			>> I'm so surprised! ?No one has anything to comment on regarding your
			
			
			
			>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? ?I was very
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that
			
			
			
			>> Dr.
			
			
			
			>> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research: ?a lack of intensity
			
			
			
			>> of
			
			
			
			>> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities
			
			
			
			>> for
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>> professional development.
			
			
			
			>>
			
			
			
			>> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
			
			
			
			>> student
			
			
			
			>> from advancing? ?What do you try to do about that?
			
			
			
			>>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>> Please post your questions and comments now.
			
			
			
			>>
			
			
			
			>> Thanks!
			
			
			
			>>
			
			
			
			>> Marie Cora
			
			
			
			>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
			
			
			
			>>
			
			
			
			>>
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>> Marie Cora
			
			
			
			>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
			
			
			
			>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com?> >
			
			
			
			>
			
			
			
			>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
			
			
			
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			JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
			
			
			
			Professor, Education Department
			
			
			
			Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
			
			
			
			Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
			
			
			
			Education
			
			
			
			University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
			
			
			
			1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
			
			
			
			ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
			
			
			
			email: crandall at umbc.edu
			
			
			
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Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
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Baltimore, MD 21250
tel:  410-455-2313
fax: 410-455-8947
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From mjjerdems at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  8 14:30:37 2008
From: mjjerdems at yahoo.com (Mary Jane Jerde)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 11:30:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Assessment 1196] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <53D57C79-3DCE-41E2-907F-712B37492670@umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <704191.71242.qm@web54006.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I don't know if it's still available, but the basic paper BEST or the scale scored BEST Plus could help avoid social promotion. You need people who are trained in either and have not worked with a particular student being interviewed. The training for the old fashioned BEST is not too complicated, especially if you don't need scale scores.

A similar test is possible to homemake, just set standards for a point system, just a few points for grammar or fluency for a number of questions using pictures. Don't allow giving the students feedback for the test. Use some "gold" standard students to help set the levels by numbers, students that are commonly agreed to be at certain levels in the two skill areas. 

Mary Jane Jerde

Jodi Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu> wrote: Kevin,

Unfortunately, social promotion is always a danger.  


Since your standardized exams for reading/writing and grammar classes have proved to be so helpful in helping students to be in classes at the right level, are you thinking of developing a listening/speaking test as well?


I wonder whether any other programs have developed or identified a listening/speaking test that they could describe or recommend?


Jodi
On Feb 8, 2008, at 10:03 AM, Hinkle, Robert wrote:

  Jodi,
  
 At Raritan Valley since my arrival five years ago, we have put in place homemade standardized exit exams for grammar and reading/writing classes at each level so that we have some way of ensuring that students with different instructors enter the next level with approximately the same skill level. We did that because many instructors engaged in social promotion. The exit exams have improved the consistency of the program and helped even out the skill level within classes.
  
 We still have the social promotion problem with the listening/speaking classe because there is no standardized assessment, and instructors sometimes pass students who really do not have the requisite level. In fact, some students have complained that the listening/speaking courses are a waste of time because they have classmates in an upper level class who have great difficulty speaking. 
  
 Even though we have course outlines with clearly defined learning outcomes, my experience has taught me to be wary of the open-ended concept of professional wisdom. That sometimes morphs into a misguided belief that passing unprepared students is somehow constructive.
  

  Kevin

 
 
---------------------------------
 From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 8:45 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1149] Re: Observation checklist


 Ted,

Did you use an oral proficiency interview at the Defense Language
Institute?  If so, how log did it take to administer to each student?  I
think time is a real barrier to most adult ESL/ESOL programs.  Thus, they
use tests that can be administered to students as a group and easily
evaluated.

For some college programs for international students, a whole range of
tests are used for placement, including a writing sample, a reading test,
and an oral interview.  Clearly that's more possible with smaller numbers
of students who are also paying for the classes.

What do you think is needed in the way of tests?  In Passing the Torch,
Forrest and I point to assessment as a major issue facing all the colleges
we studied.  We recommend the development of a test of all four skills
that, if possible, could be administered and scored in a reasonable amount
of time.

Have you tried the BEST Plus test?  What has been your experience with
that test?

I agree that for placement at literacy levels, a simple test developed by
a program might be sufficient.

I also think that for progress through the levels, student achievement in
the previous class, as judged by the instructor ("professional wisdom"),
is still the best determiner of whether a student is ready to go to the
next level.

Jodi


> Jodi,
>
> Same here! As long as the BEST Test is used to show gains, I'm afraid that
> there isn't much chance that REAL gains could be charted and compared. It
> is used too often to measure progress and is not as good for that purpose
> as one would hope. Really valid proficiency tests are the only way to
> prove the point. Achievement tests don't tell much in terms of overall
> progress. I would also guess that it would take a minimum of 120 hours of
> solid training to have a measureable level with any test that one could
> play numbers with. Other factors including attendance, etc. would have to
> be factored in. Adults have families and jobs in the way of total
> dedication to attendance. Also, one would have to have a test in which
> human judgment would play a small role. The BEST is fine for its original
> purpose, which was to place persons with others at their same levels of
> communication. Good measurement is the only way to prove anything. I often
> rely on plain old gut instincts to figure how things are really going. I
> know that's not very scientific.
>
> Cheers,  Ted
> www.tedklein-ESL.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:05 PM
> Subject: [Assessment 1138] Re: Observation checklist
>
>
> Hi, Ted.  Glad to make contact again.
>
> I definitely agree that smaller classes are more likely to bring learner
> gains, especially in language, since students will have more opportunity
> to speak when there are fewer students.  I didn't know about the DLI
> policy, but it is a good one.  The problem with adult ESL classes, I fear,
> is that there is such limited money available that programs would find it
> difficult to keep class size to these numbers.
>
> Has anyone tried to reduce class size and chart the learning gains?  If
> so, please share with us all.  It might be that this would be a good
> investment.  If students in smaller classes make faster gains, then there
> would be more spaces available as these students transitioned to other
> classes or the workforce.
>
> Jodi
>
> Hi Jodi,
>>
>> Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times in the
>> past,
>> I think at least once when you visited the Defense Language Institute
>> English Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I
>> mention
>> DLI is that it represents a language program with little leeway to fail.
>> I
>> spent 20 years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is to train
>> allied and friendly military personnel worldwide in general and
>> specialized English. Most students start ESL in their home countries
>> with
>> DLIELC personnel advising, and in some cases teaching, in these overseas
>> military language centers. It may still be the largest language program
>> in
>> the world. Students after reaching certain levels go to Lackland Air
>> Force
>> Base in San Antonio, complete their general English, usually go through
>> specialized terminology and then on to whatever training their country
>> needs with the U.S. military. Students have run the full gamut from
>> recruits and NCO's up to generals and admirals. This is a very tightly
>> organized "well-packaged" language program with predictable training
>> times
>> and results.
>>
>> Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb while I was at
>> at DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum. This was
>> rarely broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters' bean
>> counter would calculate that if a mere two or three students could be
>> added to a class, voila, look at the money we would save! This money
>> came
>> both from foreign governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue and then
>> try
>> it, I believe several times over the years. However, in an organization
>> that has a very effective testing system; both achievement and
>> proficiency, it was soon noticed that the scores were going down, just
>> enough so that they could prove that no money was being saved on teacher
>> salaries and other expenses. I spent three years with the Royal Thai
>> Navy
>> for DLI as language training advisor and remember having to twist arms
>> with the RTN Navy Education Department with the same problem. They
>> wanted
>> 15 in a class.
>>
>> Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during my last
>> eight years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes have
>> consistently been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an
>> organization is stuck with a low budget, make the hours of training per
>> week lower, but keep the class sizes within 10 or so students. Fewer
>> hours
>> of really effective training are certainly better than large classes
>> where
>> the student attention level and collegiality are reduced. I remember
>> Mary
>> Finocchiaro saying years ago that she didn't care how many students were
>> in her classroom, she would teach them! Unfortunately, most of us just
>> aren't THAT dynamic.
>>
>> Cheers,  Ted
>> www.tedklein-ESL.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM
>> Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist
>>
>>
>> Usha,
>>
>> I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
>> experience that with more than 10 students, learning decreases?  If so,
>> how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be
>> interested
>> in ways to decrease class size.
>>
>> It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
>> constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more
>> important
>> to involve them in activities in which all get to participate, which
>> means
>> less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small classes
>> need that.
>>
>> What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?
>>
>> You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop out of
>> classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any of you
>> keep
>> records of your students that would identify those who do return?  Do
>> you
>> have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning English
>> outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know of any
>> research about adult English Language Learners in this area, but there
>> is
>> an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State
>> University
>> following adult literacy level students for several years.  They have
>> identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside of the
>> classroom and also that some of these learners come back to classes
>> after
>> being out of them for some time.
>>
>> Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of you been
>> able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of these
>> services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have been most
>> effective? If you teach in a community college, have your students had
>> access to the various support services provided to other students?
>>
>> Several of you have talked about the differences in progress made by
>> students with more advanced education and those who are at literacy
>> level.
>>  Because literacy level students take longer in making progress, most
>> programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and
>> literate
>> beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and literacy
>> will
>> need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to talk about
>> what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about
>> persistence
>> of literacy level students and their learning gains.
>>
>> Students with advanced education in their own language may be able to
>> have
>> a condensed program since they are already experienced as students and
>> often have high motivation to get through English so that they can take
>> courses related to their previous or future career.  City College of San
>> Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters worth of
>> work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer something along
>> these lines?
>>
>> Jodi
>>
>>
>>> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked the tool
>>> that
>>> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope that it
>>> is
>>> not
>>> something that has already been asked and answered.
>>>
>>> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of our ESL
>>> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal constraints
>>> and
>>> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a positive
>>> to
>>> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we expect to see
>>> more
>>> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the numbers.
>>>
>>> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy programs
>>> because of many socio-economic factors.
>>>
>>> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing market (in
>>> past
>>> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to stay in
>>> one
>>> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen more in
>>> people
>>> who do not have high levels of education from their native country).
>>>
>>> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from their
>>> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some kind of
>>> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs, go in and
>>> out
>>> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of various
>>> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and have no time
>>> to
>>> practice.
>>>
>>> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in educational
>>> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
>>> availability
>>> of  community resources.
>>>
>>> Usha Narayanan
>>> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
>>> California
>>> 408-522-2737
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Marie,
>>>>
>>>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and out of the
>>>> U.S.A.
>>>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc. in ESL.
>>>> It
>>>> is
>>>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that I'm
>>>> back
>>>> in the
>>>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the Defense
>>>> Language
>>>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching immigrants part
>>>> time for
>>>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin
>>>> Community
>>>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what language
>>>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to work at a
>>>> higher
>>>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I
>>>> apply
>>>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy
>>>> traps."
>>>> I
>>>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
>>>> interested and
>>>> it is published on my website at
>>>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel absolutely free
>>>> to use
>>>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank you very
>>>> much for
>>>> the input. Questions are welcome.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,   Ted
>>>>
>>>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>>>>   Independent Consultant in Language
>>>>          and Intercultural Training
>>>>               14456 Agarita Road
>>>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>>>>              Phone:512-266-1801
>>>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
>>>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>
>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi  Ted,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it
>>>>> yourself?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try
>>>>> to
>>>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do others
>>>>> you
>>>>> work with?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the
>>>>> students
>>>>> advance?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
>>>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>>>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marie,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ted
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
>>>>>>  NO
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    supportive personality?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    other and the instructor?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     target language  proficiency?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     than push them?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     exaggerated speech?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     results?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---- Original Message -----
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello  everyone,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on  regarding
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??  I was
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
>>>>>>> intensity
>>>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
>>>>>>> opportunities
>>>>>>> for  professional development.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>>>>>>> student
>>>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>>>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>>> Assessment mailing list
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>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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>>>> Email delivered to usha_narayanan at fuhsd.org
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>> Professor, Education Department
>> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
>> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in
>> ESOL/Bilingual
>> Education
>> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
>> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
>> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
>> email: crandall at umbc.edu
>> www.umbc.edu/llc/
>> www.umbc.edu/esol/
>> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
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>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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>> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
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>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>
>
>
> --
> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Professor, Education Department
> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
> Education
> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
> email: crandall at umbc.edu
> www.umbc.edu/llc/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>
>
>
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> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>


--
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html



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From crandall at umbc.edu  Fri Feb  8 14:48:24 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (Jodi Crandall)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 14:48:24 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1197] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <704191.71242.qm@web54006.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <704191.71242.qm@web54006.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8C16FD0F-5474-41B6-966E-A9210FBDEFC3@umbc.edu>

Mary Jane,

I used to be at CAL and if my memory serves me, the basic or paper  
BEST did not discriminate at very high levels.  Was that your  
experience?

Jodi
On Feb 8, 2008, at 2:30 PM, Mary Jane Jerde wrote:

> I don't know if it's still available, but the basic paper BEST or  
> the scale scored BEST Plus could help avoid social promotion. You  
> need people who are trained in either and have not worked with a  
> particular student being interviewed. The training for the old  
> fashioned BEST is not too complicated, especially if you don't need  
> scale scores.
>
> A similar test is possible to homemake, just set standards for a  
> point system, just a few points for grammar or fluency for a number  
> of questions using pictures. Don't allow giving the students  
> feedback for the test. Use some "gold" standard students to help  
> set the levels by numbers, students that are commonly agreed to be  
> at certain levels in the two skill areas.
>
> Mary Jane Jerde
>
> Jodi Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu> wrote:
> Kevin,
>
> Unfortunately, social promotion is always a danger.
>
> Since your standardized exams for reading/writing and grammar  
> classes have proved to be so helpful in helping students to be in  
> classes at the right level, are you thinking of developing a  
> listening/speaking test as well?
>
> I wonder whether any other programs have developed or identified a  
> listening/speaking test that they could describe or recommend?
>
> Jodi
> On Feb 8, 2008, at 10:03 AM, Hinkle, Robert wrote:
>
>> Jodi,
>>
>> At Raritan Valley since my arrival five years ago, we have put in  
>> place homemade standardized exit exams for grammar and reading/ 
>> writing classes at each level so that we have some way of ensuring  
>> that students with different instructors enter the next level with  
>> approximately the same skill level. We did that because many  
>> instructors engaged in social promotion. The exit exams have  
>> improved the consistency of the program and helped even out the  
>> skill level within classes.
>>
>> We still have the social promotion problem with the listening/ 
>> speaking classe because there is no standardized assessment, and  
>> instructors sometimes pass students who really do not have the  
>> requisite level. In fact, some students have complained that the  
>> listening/speaking courses are a waste of time because they have  
>> classmates in an upper level class who have great difficulty  
>> speaking.
>>
>> Even though we have course outlines with clearly defined learning  
>> outcomes, my experience has taught me to be wary of the open-ended  
>> concept of professional wisdom. That sometimes morphs into a  
>> misguided belief that passing unprepared students is somehow  
>> constructive.
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>> Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 8:45 AM
>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>> Subject: [Assessment 1149] Re: Observation checklist
>>
>> Ted,
>>
>> Did you use an oral proficiency interview at the Defense Language
>> Institute?  If so, how log did it take to administer to each  
>> student?  I
>> think time is a real barrier to most adult ESL/ESOL programs.   
>> Thus, they
>> use tests that can be administered to students as a group and easily
>> evaluated.
>>
>> For some college programs for international students, a whole  
>> range of
>> tests are used for placement, including a writing sample, a  
>> reading test,
>> and an oral interview.  Clearly that's more possible with smaller  
>> numbers
>> of students who are also paying for the classes.
>>
>> What do you think is needed in the way of tests?  In Passing the  
>> Torch,
>> Forrest and I point to assessment as a major issue facing all the  
>> colleges
>> we studied.  We recommend the development of a test of all four  
>> skills
>> that, if possible, could be administered and scored in a  
>> reasonable amount
>> of time.
>>
>> Have you tried the BEST Plus test?  What has been your experience  
>> with
>> that test?
>>
>> I agree that for placement at literacy levels, a simple test  
>> developed by
>> a program might be sufficient.
>>
>> I also think that for progress through the levels, student  
>> achievement in
>> the previous class, as judged by the instructor ("professional  
>> wisdom"),
>> is still the best determiner of whether a student is ready to go  
>> to the
>> next level.
>>
>> Jodi
>>
>>
>> > Jodi,
>> >
>> > Same here! As long as the BEST Test is used to show gains, I'm  
>> afraid that
>> > there isn't much chance that REAL gains could be charted and  
>> compared. It
>> > is used too often to measure progress and is not as good for  
>> that purpose
>> > as one would hope. Really valid proficiency tests are the only  
>> way to
>> > prove the point. Achievement tests don't tell much in terms of  
>> overall
>> > progress. I would also guess that it would take a minimum of 120  
>> hours of
>> > solid training to have a measureable level with any test that  
>> one could
>> > play numbers with. Other factors including attendance, etc.  
>> would have to
>> > be factored in. Adults have families and jobs in the way of total
>> > dedication to attendance. Also, one would have to have a test in  
>> which
>> > human judgment would play a small role. The BEST is fine for its  
>> original
>> > purpose, which was to place persons with others at their same  
>> levels of
>> > communication. Good measurement is the only way to prove  
>> anything. I often
>> > rely on plain old gut instincts to figure how things are really  
>> going. I
>> > know that's not very scientific.
>> >
>> > Cheers,  Ted
>> > www.tedklein-ESL.com
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
>> > To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:05 PM
>> > Subject: [Assessment 1138] Re: Observation checklist
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi, Ted.  Glad to make contact again.
>> >
>> > I definitely agree that smaller classes are more likely to bring  
>> learner
>> > gains, especially in language, since students will have more  
>> opportunity
>> > to speak when there are fewer students.  I didn't know about the  
>> DLI
>> > policy, but it is a good one.  The problem with adult ESL  
>> classes, I fear,
>> > is that there is such limited money available that programs  
>> would find it
>> > difficult to keep class size to these numbers.
>> >
>> > Has anyone tried to reduce class size and chart the learning  
>> gains?  If
>> > so, please share with us all.  It might be that this would be a  
>> good
>> > investment.  If students in smaller classes make faster gains,  
>> then there
>> > would be more spaces available as these students transitioned to  
>> other
>> > classes or the workforce.
>> >
>> > Jodi
>> >
>> > Hi Jodi,
>> >>
>> >> Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times  
>> in the
>> >> past,
>> >> I think at least once when you visited the Defense Language  
>> Institute
>> >> English Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I
>> >> mention
>> >> DLI is that it represents a language program with little leeway  
>> to fail.
>> >> I
>> >> spent 20 years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is  
>> to train
>> >> allied and friendly military personnel worldwide in general and
>> >> specialized English. Most students start ESL in their home  
>> countries
>> >> with
>> >> DLIELC personnel advising, and in some cases teaching, in these  
>> overseas
>> >> military language centers. It may still be the largest language  
>> program
>> >> in
>> >> the world. Students after reaching certain levels go to  
>> Lackland Air
>> >> Force
>> >> Base in San Antonio, complete their general English, usually go  
>> through
>> >> specialized terminology and then on to whatever training their  
>> country
>> >> needs with the U.S. military. Students have run the full gamut  
>> from
>> >> recruits and NCO's up to generals and admirals. This is a very  
>> tightly
>> >> organized "well-packaged" language program with predictable  
>> training
>> >> times
>> >> and results.
>> >>
>> >> Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb while  
>> I was at
>> >> at DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum.  
>> This was
>> >> rarely broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters'  
>> bean
>> >> counter would calculate that if a mere two or three students  
>> could be
>> >> added to a class, voila, look at the money we would save! This  
>> money
>> >> came
>> >> both from foreign governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue  
>> and then
>> >> try
>> >> it, I believe several times over the years. However, in an  
>> organization
>> >> that has a very effective testing system; both achievement and
>> >> proficiency, it was soon noticed that the scores were going  
>> down, just
>> >> enough so that they could prove that no money was being saved  
>> on teacher
>> >> salaries and other expenses. I spent three years with the Royal  
>> Thai
>> >> Navy
>> >> for DLI as language training advisor and remember having to  
>> twist arms
>> >> with the RTN Navy Education Department with the same problem. They
>> >> wanted
>> >> 15 in a class.
>> >>
>> >> Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during  
>> my last
>> >> eight years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes have
>> >> consistently been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an
>> >> organization is stuck with a low budget, make the hours of  
>> training per
>> >> week lower, but keep the class sizes within 10 or so students.  
>> Fewer
>> >> hours
>> >> of really effective training are certainly better than large  
>> classes
>> >> where
>> >> the student attention level and collegiality are reduced. I  
>> remember
>> >> Mary
>> >> Finocchiaro saying years ago that she didn't care how many  
>> students were
>> >> in her classroom, she would teach them! Unfortunately, most of  
>> us just
>> >> aren't THAT dynamic.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,  Ted
>> >> www.tedklein-ESL.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
>> >> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM
>> >> Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Usha,
>> >>
>> >> I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
>> >> experience that with more than 10 students, learning  
>> decreases?  If so,
>> >> how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be
>> >> interested
>> >> in ways to decrease class size.
>> >>
>> >> It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
>> >> constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more
>> >> important
>> >> to involve them in activities in which all get to participate,  
>> which
>> >> means
>> >> less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small  
>> classes
>> >> need that.
>> >>
>> >> What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?
>> >>
>> >> You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop  
>> out of
>> >> classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any  
>> of you
>> >> keep
>> >> records of your students that would identify those who do  
>> return?  Do
>> >> you
>> >> have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning  
>> English
>> >> outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know  
>> of any
>> >> research about adult English Language Learners in this area,  
>> but there
>> >> is
>> >> an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State
>> >> University
>> >> following adult literacy level students for several years.   
>> They have
>> >> identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside  
>> of the
>> >> classroom and also that some of these learners come back to  
>> classes
>> >> after
>> >> being out of them for some time.
>> >>
>> >> Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of  
>> you been
>> >> able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of  
>> these
>> >> services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have  
>> been most
>> >> effective? If you teach in a community college, have your  
>> students had
>> >> access to the various support services provided to other students?
>> >>
>> >> Several of you have talked about the differences in progress  
>> made by
>> >> students with more advanced education and those who are at  
>> literacy
>> >> level.
>> >>  Because literacy level students take longer in making  
>> progress, most
>> >> programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and
>> >> literate
>> >> beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and  
>> literacy
>> >> will
>> >> need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to  
>> talk about
>> >> what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about
>> >> persistence
>> >> of literacy level students and their learning gains.
>> >>
>> >> Students with advanced education in their own language may be  
>> able to
>> >> have
>> >> a condensed program since they are already experienced as  
>> students and
>> >> often have high motivation to get through English so that they  
>> can take
>> >> courses related to their previous or future career.  City  
>> College of San
>> >> Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters  
>> worth of
>> >> work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer  
>> something along
>> >> these lines?
>> >>
>> >> Jodi
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked  
>> the tool
>> >>> that
>> >>> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope  
>> that it
>> >>> is
>> >>> not
>> >>> something that has already been asked and answered.
>> >>>
>> >>> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most  
>> of our ESL
>> >>> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal  
>> constraints
>> >>> and
>> >>> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a  
>> positive
>> >>> to
>> >>> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we  
>> expect to see
>> >>> more
>> >>> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the  
>> numbers.
>> >>>
>> >>> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy  
>> programs
>> >>> because of many socio-economic factors.
>> >>>
>> >>> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing  
>> market (in
>> >>> past
>> >>> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to  
>> stay in
>> >>> one
>> >>> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen  
>> more in
>> >>> people
>> >>> who do not have high levels of education from their native  
>> country).
>> >>>
>> >>> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from  
>> their
>> >>> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some  
>> kind of
>> >>> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs,  
>> go in and
>> >>> out
>> >>> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of  
>> various
>> >>> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and  
>> have no time
>> >>> to
>> >>> practice.
>> >>>
>> >>> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in  
>> educational
>> >>> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
>> >>> availability
>> >>> of  community resources.
>> >>>
>> >>> Usha Narayanan
>> >>> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
>> >>> California
>> >>> 408-522-2737
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Marie,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and  
>> out of the
>> >>>> U.S.A.
>> >>>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc.  
>> in ESL.
>> >>>> It
>> >>>> is
>> >>>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say  
>> that I'm
>> >>>> back
>> >>>> in the
>> >>>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the  
>> Defense
>> >>>> Language
>> >>>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching  
>> immigrants part
>> >>>> time for
>> >>>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at  
>> Austin
>> >>>> Community
>> >>>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what  
>> language
>> >>>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to  
>> work at a
>> >>>> higher
>> >>>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope  
>> that I
>> >>>> apply
>> >>>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy
>> >>>> traps."
>> >>>> I
>> >>>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
>> >>>> interested and
>> >>>> it is published on my website at
>> >>>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel  
>> absolutely free
>> >>>> to use
>> >>>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank  
>> you very
>> >>>> much for
>> >>>> the input. Questions are welcome.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Cheers,   Ted
>> >>>>
>> >>>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>> >>>>   Independent Consultant in Language
>> >>>>          and Intercultural Training
>> >>>>               14456 Agarita Road
>> >>>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>> >>>>              Phone:512-266-1801
>> >>>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
>> >>>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Hi  Ted,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it
>> >>>>> yourself?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you  
>> deliberately try
>> >>>>> to
>> >>>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or  
>> do others
>> >>>>> you
>> >>>>> work with?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the
>> >>>>> students
>> >>>>> advance?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Marie
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>> >>>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
>> >>>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
>> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
>> >>>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>> >>>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Marie,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Ted
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
>> >>>>>>  NO
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    supportive personality?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>    other and the instructor?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>     target language  proficiency?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>     than push them?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>     exaggerated speech?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>     results?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> ---- Original Message -----
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Hello  everyone,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on   
>> regarding
>> >>>>>>> your
>> >>>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students   
>> advance??  I was
>> >>>>>>> very
>> >>>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types  
>> of issues
>> >>>>>>> that
>> >>>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a  
>> lack of
>> >>>>>>> intensity
>> >>>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
>> >>>>>>> opportunities
>> >>>>>>> for  professional development.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit  
>> the ESL
>> >>>>>>> student
>> >>>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Thanks!
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>> >>>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> -------------------------------
>> >>>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>> >>>>>>> Assessment mailing list
>> >>>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> >>>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings,  
>> please go to
>> >>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> >>>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -------------------------------
>> >>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>> >>>>> Assessment mailing list
>> >>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> >>>>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings, please  
>> go to
>> >>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> >>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -------------------------------
>> >>>> National Institute for Literacy
>> >>>> Assessment mailing list
>> >>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> >>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please  
>> go to
>> >>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> >>>> Email delivered to usha_narayanan at fuhsd.org
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Scanned by Barracuda Spam Firewall
>> >>> -------------------------------
>> >>> National Institute for Literacy
>> >>> Assessment mailing list
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>> >>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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>> >>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>> >> Professor, Education Department
>> >> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
>> >> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in
>> >> ESOL/Bilingual
>> >> Education
>> >> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
>> >> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
>> >> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
>> >> email: crandall at umbc.edu
>> >> www.umbc.edu/llc/
>> >> www.umbc.edu/esol/
>> >> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -------------------------------
>> >> National Institute for Literacy
>> >> Assessment mailing list
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>> >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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>> >> Email delivered to  
>> taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
>> >> National Institute for Literacy
>> >> Assessment mailing list
>> >> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> >> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>> > Professor, Education Department
>> > Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
>> > Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/ 
>> Bilingual
>> > Education
>> > University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
>> > 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
>> > ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
>> > email: crandall at umbc.edu
>> > www.umbc.edu/llc/
>> > www.umbc.edu/esol/
>> > www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -------------------------------
>> > National Institute for Literacy
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>> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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>> taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
>> > National Institute for Literacy
>> > Assessment mailing list
>> > Assessment at nifl.gov
>> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> > Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>> Professor, Education Department
>> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
>> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/ 
>> Bilingual
>> Education
>> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
>> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
>> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
>> email: crandall at umbc.edu
>> www.umbc.edu/llc/
>> www.umbc.edu/esol/
>> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
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>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
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JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor and Director
Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
University of Maryland Baltimore County
1000 Hilltop Circle
Baltimore, MD 21250
tel:  410-455-2313
fax: 410-455-8947
eml: crandall at umbc.edu




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From mjjerdems at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  8 15:04:09 2008
From: mjjerdems at yahoo.com (Mary Jane Jerde)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:04:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Assessment 1198] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
	Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <002401c869f6$781c6fe0$68554fa0$@net>
Message-ID: <578810.50210.qm@web54005.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

As for higher education, you can see the note toward the bottom. My experience has been mostly in grant funded classes with a civics orientation, but even in the medical terminology class for medical professionals, I still found myself relying on them. In fact, it seemed even more important for some of the highly educated immigrants to learn the team ethic. 

First, this was much easier when I was teaching in an Even Start program with sixteen contact hours weekly. (There were students with three to nine years of school, with an occasional misplaced college graduate. I have taught college educated students in the refugee program and at the community college.) Ideally the beginning ESL students took leveled classes at the community college one or two mornings a week, which gave everyone a break. This did not always happen due to the need for students to be in long enough to get placed in classes for the next term, but for those who committed themselves, it was an important asset. Bless the contact folks at the college who put up with my requests for class space. 

Second, my implicit expectations of student free production were (a la  Barb Denman) for the lower levels to produce words (identify same/different and labels), the higher beginners to produce phrases, the intermediates were held to the higher standard of actual grammatical production. So in a given whole group activity the students learned that they were held to different standards as they progressed. They really valued the progression as a form of promotion.

The two explicit rules I had was to help each other and to work in English. After a week to adjust, I held them responsible to hold to these rules. Of course, having some students buy into them was really critical. In thirteen years, I have only had two students completely abdicate the rules, one a highly educated man and the other was a woman with minimal education from different areas of the world. 

With four hours a day, it was easy to divide up time into segments for various skills and to have realistic whole group activities. I frequently made worksheets to cover an area of confusion as a group follow-up, though it could go from lower to higher levels. 

The basic conversational tool is for one student to ask another a question or give a cue. The second gives a response and asks someone else, "Do you agree?" The third party agrees or disagrees and can explain why. There ensues a discussion until there's agreement or they call me in. (I don't like to answer questions until the student has asked another student first, no matter how the students' skill levels are perceived.) They must take turns in this routine and everyone must participate in turn. This is a powerful principle used in cooperative learning. If a student is stuck, he or she doesn't have to guess an answer; it's always all right to ask another student at the beginning of an exercise. This can be used going over homework, a reading, practicing grammar or pronunciation or whatever in class. It also teaching the students to be independent of the instructor and allows them to function as adults. 

What this also does is show the students that no matter their educational background or other skills they can truly work and learn from each other. I have had it work with those with up to some high school experience in their country and more if they have little English. Students with a good bit of academic English in their own country tend to require more proof that they benefit from the experience, but once they're caught in the wrong or a less educated student who is working comes up with the right answer, they usually can understand the benefits. 

I hope that this is clear. 

Mary Jane

Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:        v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}                     Mary Jane,
   
  Thanks for this input. I gather that all of your classes mix students with different levels of higher education. Is that right? If so, how do you manage to find the time (or manage the class) so that you can provide this extra help to students with low levels of prior education? About how many hours/week do your classes meet? Also, I think we?d all like to hear some examples of the cooperation and teamwork you mention, and its results. This seems to be an important, but too little documented theme.
   
  Forrest   
   
    From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Mary Jane Jerde
 Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:31 PM
 To: The Assessment Discussion List; Jodi Crandall
 Subject: [Assessment 1164] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!
  
   
  I was going to write a very similar message based on my experience working under Barbara Denman at the erstwhile refugee program in Prince George's County, Maryland. 
 
 Now that I work in a community college with ESL classes that span the lowest level ESL and academic experience to the higher levels of college credit classes, my experience has grown. The principles of both cooperation and teamwork in learning and separation by level still hold true. Students benefit from knowing that they need to help each other. It's part of our culture, surprise, surprise. The institution where I work has six levels of class for the various language skills, so there's lots of separation by level. 
 
 What I have found myself doing with high beginning students and intermediates with less education in their home countries is preparing them for the grammatical terms that will come their way if they continue to take ESL classes. I also work diligently with them to have a firm grasp of basic English grammar, especially verbs. This will help them at work or if they decide to begin ABE classes, where the grammar focus is not normally on their kind of grammar issues. 
 
 Mary Jane Jerde
 ESL Instructor
 Howard Community College
 
 "Sadan, Noa" <Noa.Sadan at montgomerycollege.edu> wrote:
  Years ago, the Montgomery County Refugee Training Program (Montgomery
 College, Silver Spring, MD)had highly educated people with no English,
 in class with literacy level students. It was certainly difficult
 meeting the needs of all students, but in this intensive 20-hours/week
 program, a tremendous mutual respect was fostered between the groups.
 Typically, the highly educated students raced ahead with reading and
 writing, while the literacy students sped ahead with oral language. The
 Somali mother of nine would say to the Russian engineer, "I wish I could
 read and write like you!", while the Russian woman would reply, "I wish
 I could speak like you."
 
 All this ended with a slightly different solution. The Refugee Center,
 then under the direction of Donna Kinerney, divided that school day into
 separate Listening,Reading and "Homeroom" classes. Homerooom took in all
 skills, plus the introduction to the American workplace. This model was
 in place when we began to get World English speakers who were not
 literate. It provided a solution in which they could study in a
 literacy-level reading/writing class, and interact in a higher level
 Listening and Homeroom class. 
 
 -----Original Message-----
 From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
 On Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
 Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM
 To: The Assessment Discussion List
 Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
 Comments?!
 
 Jackie and Forrest,
 
 I think most large programs separate literacy level students from others
 who are at a beginning level. I know that back in the 1980s when there
 were large refugee ESL programs, several community colleges created
 parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels and even into intermediate
 levels, with one set of classes for students with limited literacy or
 prior schooling and another for more educated students. The reason was
 that the students with less education made slower progress. Some of
 this is undoubtedly due to the way in which we teach English (requiring
 literacy), but it is also because students need to become accustomed to
 attending classes, learning to hold and use a pen or pencil, and a wide
 range of basic skills that come with being a student in a class.
 
 Those of you who have separate classes for those who need literacy:
 Can
 you tell us what kind of classes or program you provide?
 
 Those who teach both literacy and more educated learners in the same
 class: Can you let us know how you manage? What are some ways in which
 you accommodate both sets of needs?
 
 Jodi
 > Forrest,
 > I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy 
 > background and those without. These two groups have such different 
 > needs. Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to 
 > meet the needs of either group well and I find that often the stronger
 
 > students dominate the class, and their drive push the teacher forward.
 
 > If the instructor does not keep up with the students who are learning 
 > at a faster rate, they often become frustrated and leave or mentally 
 > check out. However, if the instructor keeps up with those students, 
 > the others are unable to keep up and they get frustrated.
 > I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless
 
 > of how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.
 > Jackie
 >
 >
 > On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman wrote:
 >>
 >> To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor 
 >> in student performance:
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more 
 >> highly educated students do better in terms of persistence, learning
 
 >> gains, and transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect 
 >> this.
 >> Regrettably
 >> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior 
 >> education makes, because too few programs track the level of prior 
 >> education of their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of
 
 >> you do this? That is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference 
 >> level of prior education makes?
 >> Or
 >> any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior education
 
 >> that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are completely 
 >> illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high school 
 >> graduates, college graduates, etc. -- or is level of prior education
 
 >> pretty much of a continuum?
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between 
 >> highly educated students and those with less prior education? 
 >> Presumably students with very low levels of education are more likely
 
 >> end up in the lower level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning 
 >> levels) why are (almost by
 >> definition) in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes
 
 >> math.
 >> Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at 
 >> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it
 
 >> be desirable to place less highly educated students in separate 
 >> classes from those with more education and adjust the 
 >> curriculum/support systems for them accordingly? Some programs have 
 >> tried "native language literacy" or the Spanish GED. What has been 
 >> the experience of any of you with these approaches? Any other ideas? 
 >> IS there an adult ESL equivalent of "bi-lingual education" that 
 >> should be tried?
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the
 
 >> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of 
 >> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large
 
 >> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that 
 >> means), ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very 
 >> little education in their native countries and too little money to 
 >> serve them. So anyone who has any ideas about how to bridge this 
 >> "education gap" could help us a lot by posting ideas about how to 
 >> close it on this discussion list.
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> Forrest Chisman
 >>
 >> Vice President
 >>
 >> CAAL
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> *From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
 >> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
 >> *On
 >> Behalf Of *Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
 >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
 >> *To:* The Assessment Discussion List
 >> *Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No 
 >> Questions or Comments?!
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> Hi Jackie,
 >>
 >> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what 
 >> my former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual 
 >> education in the K-12 school system.
 >>
 >> Tina
 >>
 >> Tina Luffman
 >> Coordinator, Developmental Education
 >> Verde Valley Campus
 >> 928-634-6544
 >> tina_luffman at yc.edu
 >>
 >> *"Jackie Coelho" * Sent by: 
 >> assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
 >>
 >> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM
 >>
 >> Please respond to
 >> The Assessment Discussion List 
 >>
 >> To
 >>
 >> "The Assessment Discussion List" 
 >>
 >> cc
 >>
 >> Subject
 >>
 >> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or 
 >> Comments?!
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> Hi Tina,
 >>
 >> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement 
 >> in favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented
 
 >> in the best way. For many years people have known that a good 
 >> foundation in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning
 
 >> in a second or third language.
 >>
 >> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not 
 >> written.
 >>
 >> Jackie
 >>
 >>
 >> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu wrote:
 >> > Hi list members,
 >> >
 >> > My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to
 >> that
 >> of
 >> > Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the 
 >> > country
 >> they
 >> > came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather
 >> quickly
 >> and
 >> > get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their
 >> country
 >> or
 >> > lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much 
 >> > advancement.
 >> >
 >> > This experience relates well to research done among Native American
 >> tribes
 >> > teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
 >> literacy
 >> > skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those 
 >> > who
 >> tried
 >> > to learn literacy skills in English without that background in 
 >> > their
 >> own
 >> > tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. 
 >> > The concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish 
 >> > were much
 >> easier
 >> > to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps 
 >> > this
 >> is
 >> > something deserving more research.
 >> >
 >> > Tina
 >> > Tina Luffman
 >> > Coordinator, Developmental Education Verde Valley Campus
 >> > 928-634-6544
 >> > tina_luffman at yc.edu
 >> >
 >> > -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
 >> >
 >> > To: "The Assessment Discussion List" 
 >> > From: "Gail Burnett" Sent by: 
 >> > assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
 >> > Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
 >> > Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
 
 >> > Comments?!
 >> >
 >> >
 >> > Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
 >> > Warning: (not named).
 >> > Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for
 >> more
 >> > information.
 >> >
 >> > In our small adult education program, my experience (just about 
 >> > three
 >> years)
 >> > is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
 >> particularly if
 >> > they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, 
 >> > if
 >> at
 >> > all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first 
 >> > language. I
 >> would
 >> > say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a
 >> student
 >> > who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed 
 >> > because
 >> he/she
 >> > is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is
 >> try
 >> to
 >> > get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
 >> concept
 >> > in a second language.
 >> >
 >> > This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't
 >> play
 >> a
 >> > part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers 
 >> > (transitioned
 >> from
 >> > another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
 >> classes).
 >> > My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow
 advancement.
 >> It's
 >> > hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
 >> teachers.
 >> > The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is
 >> encouraging
 >> me
 >> > to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think
 >> we're
 >> > making some progress.
 >> >
 >> > Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
 >> >
 >> > ________________________________
 >> >
 >> > From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
 >> > Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
 >> > To: Assessment at nifl.gov
 >> > Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
 >> >
 >> >
 >> > Hello everyone,
 >> >
 >> > I'm so surprised! No one has anything to comment on regarding your
 
 >> > program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? I was 
 >> > very curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of 
 >> > issues
 >> that
 >> Dr.
 >> > Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research: a lack of 
 >> > intensity
 >> of
 >> > instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few 
 >> > opportunities
 >> for
 >> > professional development.
 >> >
 >> > What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
 >> student
 >> > from advancing? What do you try to do about that?
 >> >
 >> > Please post your questions and comments now.
 >> >
 >> > Thanks!
 >> >
 >> > Marie Cora
 >> > Assessment Discussion List Moderator
 >> >
 >> >
 >> > Marie Cora
 >> > marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
 >> > 
 >> > NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator 
 >> > 
 >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 >> >
 >> >
 >> > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
 >> intended
 >> > solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
 >> addressed.
 >> > If you have received this email in error please notify the system
 >> manager.
 >> > This message contains confidential information and is intended only
 >> for
 >> the
 >> > individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
 
 >> > disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
 >> > -------------------------------
 >> > National Institute for Literacy
 >> > Assessment mailing list
 >> > Assessment at nifl.gov
 >> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
 >> > 
 >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 >> > Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
 >> >
 >> >
 >> > -------------------------------
 >> > National Institute for Literacy
 >> > Assessment mailing list
 >> > Assessment at nifl.gov
 >> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
 >> > 
 >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 >> > Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
 >> >
 >> >
 >> >
 >> -------------------------------
 >> National Institute for Literacy
 >> Assessment mailing list
 >> Assessment at nifl.gov
 >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
 >> 
 >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 >> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu 
 >> 
 >>
 >> -------------------------------
 >> National Institute for Literacy
 >> Assessment mailing list
 >> Assessment at nifl.gov
 >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
 >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 >> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
 >>
 >>
 > -------------------------------
 > National Institute for Literacy
 > Assessment mailing list
 > Assessment at nifl.gov
 > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
 > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 > Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
 >
 
 
 --
 JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
 Professor, Education Department
 Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture Coordinator,
 Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
 University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC) 1000 Hilltop Circle,
 Baltimore, MD 21250
 ph: 410-455-2313/2376 fax: 410-455-8947/1880
 email: crandall at umbc.edu
 www.umbc.edu/llc/
 www.umbc.edu/esol/
 www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
 
 
 
 -------------------------------
 National Institute for Literacy
 Assessment mailing list
 Assessment at nifl.gov
 To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
 http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 Email delivered to noa.sadan at montgomerycollege.edu
 -------------------------------
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 To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 Email delivered to mjjerdems at yahoo.com
   
    
    
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From mburt at cal.org  Fri Feb  8 15:04:13 2008
From: mburt at cal.org (Miriam Burt)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 15:04:13 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1199] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
	orComments?!
In-Reply-To: <3CB6A6A4-8951-4438-BD56-DEBAF6A7E6AC@umbc.edu>
References: <A1FACE81B7C82147B9CE6822E2D4A701022A24F8@MCMAIL2.mcnte.mc.cc.md.us>
	<3CB6A6A4-8951-4438-BD56-DEBAF6A7E6AC@umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F0389D591@MAIL.cal.local>

Noa and others,
 
I like the idea of the snack bar very much, but I'm curious about how
the concept of buying and wearing second hand clothing from strangers,
if you will, is received by the students. My experience is that the idea
purchasing  and wearing someone else's second-hand clothes and items is
actually one that doesn't always translate across all cultures. True,
the idea is highly positive among middle class here in the U.S.  where
it is seen as a way of saving money,  being "green," and not wasting
resources -- and this is demonstsrated by the prolitferation of trendy
2nd hand boutiques in cities and ads on Craig's list to sell gently used
baby clothes (even diapers! ) and toys. However, some cultural groups
may find the idea of buying and wearing someone else's clothing as
"charity"  (as Jodi says below) or something somewhat distasteful.
Perhaps the fact that all items are 50 cents takes that edge off? Has
anyone else had this experience with the concept of 2nd hand items and
other cultures?
 
Great discussion here! 
Miriam
**********
Center for Adult English Language Acquisition
Center for Applied Linguistics
4646 40th Street NW
Washington, DC 20016
(202) 362-0700 
(202) 363-7204 (fax) 
mburt at cal.org <mailto:mburt at cal.org>  (email)
 
________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 1:18 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1192] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
orComments?!
Importance: Low



	Noa, 

	These are fabulous ideas.  I especially like the emphasis on how
literacy level students can help those who are more educated and also
cooperate and compete with them in the snack bar and boutique.  

	You have provided clear guidance on how to maximize both groups'
strengths and also encourage them to learn from each other.

	By the way, "boutique" is so much more positive a name than the
usual "closet" or another name that sounds like it's charity.

	Do others have suggestions of ways of accommodating literacy
level and more educated students in the same class.

	Jodi

	On Feb 8, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Sadan, Noa wrote:


		Jodi,
		 
		The classroom mix of the highly educated literate
students who didn't know English with the literacy level beginning
English students was often a challenge. The first (unstated) task was to
help the educated students realize that they might learn a great deal
from those who picked up oral language faster than they did. 
		 
		Techniques for dealing with the mixed levels:
		    The Key: fostering a sense of community within the
class
		    Main technique: Group work - teacher as enabler,
moving around the groups

		*	        extra reading help in reading given
while class was working on either written assignments or group projects 
		*	        groups were mixed 

			*	            always by language 
			*	            occasionally by gender 
			*	            rarely by ability (only when
reading lessons specifically for the literacy group were held)

		    School Job: The Refugee Center has a working Snack
Bar, and Boutique (donated clothing - everything sells for fifty
cents/item).

		*	         students polish their abilty to work
together 
		*	        students learn chain of command
(literacy level students are supervisors just as often as the highly
educated, since they often have a verbal advantage) 
		*	         literacy-level students could make
coffee, serve as a cashier, and give excellent customer service 
		*	        a highly educated accountant who cannot
get out an English sentence orally, could create a cost-accounting
spreadsheet see if it was less expensive to buy bulk sugar or packets
for coffee.

		Other projects are used as well - making recipe books,
making student profile books. Today, with the use of the computer, the
possibilities are endless for activities for mixed classes.
		 
		Noa
		   
		
________________________________

		From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
		Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 12:59 PM
		To: The Assessment Discussion List
		Subject: [Assessment 1152] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE:
No Questions orComments?!
		
		
		Noa, 

		Thanks for sharing this.  How wonderful to have had 20
hours per week for these students.  Besides mutual respect (which is
very important), were there ways in which students could use their
complementary skills to help each other.  If you could describe some of
the activities that you or others used that were helpful, that would be
great.

		If others of you could share your experiences with mixed
classes, and how you coped with them, I think a lot of us would be
interested.

		The change to separate Listening, Reading and "Homeroom"
classes is also a very interesting way of meeting the needs of this
diverse population.  I know that many community colleges separate their
instruction in adult ESL to oral language skills (Listening/Speaking)
and written language (Reading/Writing) skills.  Are there others out
there who could share your experiences in this regard?

		The presence of World English speakers and Generation
1.5 speakers in adult ESL has further complicated the situation.  I'd be
interested in knowing how  others  have dealt with such diverse students
in adult ESL/ESOL.

		Jodi


		 
		n Feb 7, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Sadan, Noa wrote: 


			Years ago, the Montgomery County Refugee
Training Program (Montgomery
			College, Silver Spring, MD)had highly educated
people with no English,
			in class with literacy level students. It was
certainly difficult
			meeting the needs of all students, but in this
intensive 20-hours/week
			program, a tremendous mutual respect was
fostered between the groups.
			Typically, the highly educated students raced
ahead with reading and
			writing, while the literacy students sped ahead
with oral language. The
			Somali mother of nine would say to the Russian
engineer, "I wish I could
			read and write like you!", while the Russian
woman would reply, "I wish
			I could speak like you."

			All this ended with a slightly different
solution. The Refugee Center,
			then under the direction of Donna Kinerney,
divided that school day into
			separate Listening,Reading and "Homeroom"
classes. Homerooom took in all
			skills, plus the introduction to the American
workplace. This model was
			in place when we began to get World English
speakers who were not
			literate. It provided a solution in which they
could study in a
			literacy-level reading/writing class, and
interact in a higher level
			Listening and Homeroom class. 

			-----Original Message-----
			From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
			On Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
			Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM
			To: The Assessment Discussion List
			Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous
Content?} RE: No Questions or
			Comments?!

			Jackie and Forrest,

			I think most large programs separate literacy
level students from others
			who are at a beginning level.  I know that back
in the 1980s when there
			were large refugee ESL programs, several
community colleges created
			parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels
and even into intermediate
			levels, with one set of classes for students
with limited literacy or
			prior schooling and another for more educated
students.  The reason was
			that the students with less education made
slower progress.  Some of
			this is undoubtedly due to the way in which we
teach English (requiring
			literacy), but it is also because students need
to become accustomed to
			attending classes, learning to hold and use a
pen or pencil, and a wide
			range of basic skills that come with being a
student in a class.

			Those of you who have separate classes for those
who need literacy:
			Can
			you tell us what kind of classes or program you
provide?

			Those who teach both literacy and more educated
learners in the same
			class:  Can you let us know how you manage?
What are some ways in which
			you accommodate both sets of needs?

			Jodi

				Forrest,
				   I like the idea of separate classes
for those with a literacy 
				background and those without. These two
groups have such different 
				needs. Having both in the class make it
difficult for a teacher to 
				meet the needs of either group well and
I find that often the stronger


				students dominate the class, and their
drive push the teacher forward.


				If the instructor does not keep up with
the students who are learning 
				at a faster rate, they often become
frustrated and leave or mentally 
				check out. However, if the instructor
keeps up with those students, 
				the others are unable to keep up and
they get frustrated.
				  I think that literacy could perhaps be
separated out. And regardless


				of how you do it, well-trained
instructors are essential.
				Jackie


				On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman
<forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:


				 To all of you who commented on level of
prior education as a factor 
				in student performance:



				Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I
talked believes that more 
				highly educated students do better in
terms of  persistence, learning


				gains, and transitions. And learning
theory would lead us to expect 
				this.
				Regrettably
				we found very little hard data about how
much difference prior 
				education makes, because too few
programs track the level of prior 
				education of their students and
correlate it with outcomes. DO any of


				you do this? That is, do you have any
data on HOW MUCH difference 
				level of prior education makes?
				Or
				any strong impressions? And are there
"cut points" in prior education


				that seem to make a difference -- e.g.
students who are completely 
				illiterate, students who at least
reached high school, high school 
				graduates, college graduates, etc. --
or is level of prior education


				pretty much of a continuum?



				More importantly, what can programs DO
to narrow the gap between 
				highly educated students and those with
less prior education? 
				Presumably students with very low levels
of education are more likely


				end up in the lower level ESL courses
(Literacy or Low-Beginning 
				levels) why are (almost by
				definition)  in the business of teaching
basic literacy and sometimes


				math.
				Why isn't this enough? In your
experience, does the "gap" exist at 
				these levels too, or mainly at higher
levels? At any levels, would it


				be desirable to place less highly
educated students in separate 
				classes from those with more education
and adjust the 
				curriculum/support systems for them
accordingly? Some programs have 
				tried "native language literacy" or the
Spanish GED. What has been 
				the experience of any of you with these
approaches? Any other ideas? 
				IS there an adult ESL equivalent of
"bi-lingual education" that 
				should be tried?



				It seems to me that we need to come up
with better ideas. Because the


				people who study immigration tell us
that the level of education of 
				immigrants has been falling. And if
Immigration Reform mandates large


				numbers of undocumented people to "learn
English" (whatever that 
				means), ESL programs may be swamped with
students who have very 
				little education in their native
countries and too little money to 
				serve them.  So anyone who has any ideas
about how to bridge this 
				"education gap" could help us a lot by
posting ideas about how to 
				close it on this discussion list.



				Forrest Chisman

				Vice President

				CAAL







				*From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
				[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
				*On
				Behalf Of *Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
				*Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32
PM
				*To:* The Assessment Discussion List
				*Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re:
{Dangerous Content?} RE: No 
				Questions or Comments?!




				Hi Jackie,

				Thank you for this information. I
believe this research must be what 
				my former Spanish teacher was basing her
argument on for bilingual 
				education in the K-12 school system.

				Tina

				Tina Luffman
				Coordinator, Developmental Education
				Verde Valley Campus
				928-634-6544
				tina_luffman at yc.edu

				  *"Jackie Coelho"
<jackie.coelho at gmail.com>* Sent by: 
				assessment-bounces at nifl.gov

				02/05/2008 11:13 AM

				Please respond to
				The Assessment Discussion List
<assessment at nifl.gov>

				To

				"The Assessment Discussion List"
<assessment at nifl.gov>

				cc

				Subject

				[Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous
Content?} RE: No Questions or  
				Comments?!






				Hi Tina,

				This has been researched already and is
the basis for the arguement 
				in favor of bilingual education, a good
idea that was not implemented


				in the best way. For many years people
have known that a good 
				foundation in literacy in the first
language will facilitate learning


				in a second or third language.

				Another interesting twist is the
existence of languages that are not 
				written.

				Jackie


				On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
<Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:

				Hi list members,

				My experience teaching ELAA students in
the GED class is similar to

				that
				of

				Gail. If the student has a solid
educational background in the 
				country

				they

				came from in their native language, they
tend to advance rather

				quickly
				and

				get their GED. Those coming with 6th
grade educations from their

				country
				or

				lower tend to stay in the GED class for
years and do not make much 
				advancement.

				This experience relates well to research
done among Native American

				tribes

				teaching them English. Those Native
Americans who were first taught

				literacy

				skills in their own tongue learned
English much quicker than those 
				who

				tried

				to learn literacy skills in English
without that background in 
				their

				own

				tongue. I also found similar problems
when I was learning Spanish. 
				The concepts I could mentally translate
from English to Spanish 
				were much

				easier

				to grasp and learn than those I didn't
know in English. Perhaps 
				this

				is

				something deserving more research.

				Tina
				Tina Luffman
				Coordinator, Developmental Education
Verde Valley Campus
				928-634-6544
				tina_luffman at yc.edu

				-----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote:
-----

				To: "The Assessment Discussion List"
<assessment at nifl.gov>
				From: "Gail Burnett"
<gburnett at sanford.org> Sent by: 
				assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
				Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
				Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous
Content?} RE: No Questions or


				Comments?!


				Warning: This message has had one or
more attachments removed
				Warning: (not named).
				Warning: Please read the
"AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for

				more

				information.

				In our small adult education program, my
experience (just about 
				three

				years)

				is that students with solid educational
backgrounds advance,

				particularly if

				they're not working too many hours.
Those who advance the slowest, 
				if

				at

				all, are immigrants who are barely
literate in their first 
				language. I

				would

				say that lack of education is a bigger
factor than lack of time; a

				student

				who works full-time and is exhausted
often will still succeed 
				because

				he/she

				is familiar with academic work, and is
goal-oriented. What we do is

				try
				to

				get our low-level students to come up
with goals, but that's a hard

				concept

				in a second language.

				This does not mean that the factors
mentioned in the research don't

				play
				a

				part, though. I'm one of those
barely-trained teachers 
				(transitioned

				from

				another career, got trained mainly
through workshops rather than

				classes).

				My skill level very well may contribute
to students' slow

			advancement.

				It's

				hard for small adult education programs
to get highly skilled ESL

				teachers.

				The pay is low and there are no
benefits. But my program is

				encouraging
				me

				to get extra training and has me on a
plan of improvement. I think

				we're

				making some progress.

				Does this address any of the issues? And
am I submitting it right?

				________________________________

				From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on
behalf of Marie Cora
				Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
				To: Assessment at nifl.gov
				Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions
or Comments?!


				Hello everyone,

				I'm so surprised!  No one has anything
to comment on regarding your


				program's effectiveness at helping ESL
students advance??  I was 
				very curious to know if subscribers
experience the same types of 
				issues

				that
				Dr.

				Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their
research:  a lack of 
				intensity

				of

				instruction/few protocols for
transitioning students/few 
				opportunities

				for

				professional development.

				What are the issues in your program that
you feel inhibit the ESL

				student

				from advancing?  What do you try to do
about that?

				Please post your questions and comments
now.

				Thanks!

				Marie Cora
				Assessment Discussion List Moderator


				Marie Cora
				marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
				<mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
				NIFL Assessment Discussion List
Moderator 
				<marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>

	
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment



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			--
			JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
			Professor, Education Department
			Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy &
Culture Coordinator,
			Peace Corps Master's International Program in
ESOL/Bilingual Education
			University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle,
			Baltimore, MD 21250
			ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:
410-455-8947/1880
			email: crandall at umbc.edu
			www.umbc.edu/llc/
			www.umbc.edu/esol/
			www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html



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	JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
	Professor and Director
	Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
	Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
	University of Maryland Baltimore County
	1000 Hilltop Circle
	Baltimore, MD 21250
	tel:  410-455-2313
	fax: 410-455-8947
	eml: crandall at umbc.edu





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From jschneider at eicc.edu  Fri Feb  8 15:20:25 2008
From: jschneider at eicc.edu (Schneider, Jim)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 14:20:25 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1200] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE:
	NoQuestions	orComments?!
In-Reply-To: <004b01c86a81$9934a9f0$cb9dfdd0$@net>
Message-ID: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870AD7F858@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>

Let me clarify... I don't know if the test is too hard - I am certain that it is significantly harder than the old Spanish GED. 
 
I do not speak Spanish, nor am I a psychometrician, however, in comparison with the old Spanish GED that was written and normed with the Spanish speaking population, the new form of the GED - having been translated from the English, with the exact same content and questions as the English seems contrived to me. And more than one native speaker of Spanish has commented on the translations in the official practice tests. This may simply be my bias having worked with both forms of the test. 
 
Regarding the placement of GED recipient in developmental education - I would wager that this is as true with the new test as it was with the old. If you read the 1956 Tyler report on the GED, they knew that the score of 225 (average of 45 per subject exam) on the GED was not really adequate for college preparation. However, they discovered that if they raised it to 250 (average of 50 per subject exam), college success was significantly enhanced. Nevertheless, they recommended the 225 as a passing score because if they increased the passing score to 250, several individuals who had been successful in college would not have had that opportunity. 
 
An earlier dissertation topic that I abandoned for lack of a theory-base was to investigate whether a GED score of 2500 or 3000 might be a better predictor of college success than the 2250?  Despite the benefit of better preparation, I'd hate to see the passing score be increased and make it that much harder for so many who need the credential to get their foot in the door. However, if my premise holds water, why couldn't colleges use the GED as they do an ACT and either not accept a GED student with less than a .... (pick a score), or if students with a score under ... (pick a score) is admitted, recognize that they would likely need significant support and/or remediation. 
 
Jim S. 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 12:37 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1193] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: NoQuestions orComments?!



Jim,

 

I'm with Jodi on this. Many people would take exception  with the idea that the Spanish GED is too hard. I think people who have studied economic/educational benefits by and large think BOTH the English and Spanish GED's, as well as high school diplomas, are TOO EASY. I believe the research shows that GED holders have a far higher rate of placement in developmental education than do high school graduates, but that data may be based on the OLD  GED.

 

Forrest  

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 11:49 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1185] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions orComments?!

 

Jim,

 

I think you've summarized how I feel as well.

 

We can discuss the various options with students, but in the end, if we offer Spanish Literacy and Spanish GED, it's their choice.  Some will choose to do everything in English and take longer to do it, but others will choose to work in their own language.  For some students, the Spanish GED provides short-term benefits.  But they will still need ESL for future academic or vocational training, if they have limited English.

 

Have any programs tried to encourage students in Spanish Literacy or Spanish GED to take ESL classes as well?

 

Jodi

 

 

 

 

On Feb 8, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Schneider, Jim wrote:





I feel compelled to put my two cents in on the Spanish GED. 

 

My experience is that both Andres and Ted have valid points. Here in Eastern Iowa, there are few bilingual employers. Employers that are bilingual rarely pay the best wages and are typically short of employees if there are any signs of INS.  

 

On the other hand, many of the students who have completed the Spanish GED are already employed, and have fairly decent English skills, but are short on time. Attaining the GED provides them the opportunity for advancement at work and/or access to postsecondary education/training. 

 

It has been excruciating watch the one or two who insist on the GED in English get through the Literature and Writing portions of the test. 

 

And the difficulty of the new Spanish GED tests are such that it is a rare student who can pass it. The old Spanish GED was attainable for most learners who had a 6-8th grade education. We have found that it is virtually impossible for anyone with less than a 10-11 grade education By simply translating the English test into Spanish and then utilizing the standard scores/norms of the English test, students who have passed it, have EARNED their GED. 

 

Jim S.  

 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Ted Klein
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 8:49 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1175] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions orComments?!

Andres,

 

I'm not too sure that some of your perspectives haven't been somewhat altered by living in El Paso. I say that with total respect for El Paso and for your answer. Let me explain. First, I've lived in Texas most of my life, except for some time overseas. I know just about all of our border towns, from El Paso to Brownsville. I've also lived in nine countries outside of the United States and traveled perhaps in twenty more. AXIOM: All over the world, border towns are different  from other towns. Persons, regardless of ancestry,  who live in border towns anywhere tend to be bicultural and bilingual. They also tend to identify with each other on close levels as being a well-made "tossed salad." If most or all of your students plan to stay in El Paso for the rest of their lives, I totally agree with what you say. However, if they want to go to cities north of the border area; Dallas, Ft. Worth, Austin, Houston, Waco, or out of state, then the picture changes. I am almost as comfortable in Spanish as I am in English and have dealt with persons from every country in Latin America comfortably and successfully, as well as Spain. However, I do not represent anything close to a majority, particularly when it comes to having a business. When persons go for job interviews in non-border towns, being truly bilingual is a great asset and can even result in higher pay and better opportunities. That is true for Spanish speakers and English speakers. However, most of your persons who have had to take the GED in Spanish are not truly bilingual. That's a fact and when they go for a job interview, the human resources person doesn't need paperwork to know that there may be communication problems with clients and on the telephone. The fact is that life is short. However it is long enough for persons to spend a couple of more years acquiring English if it gives them more options in life. Again, if they plan to spend their lives in a border town, this may not be a problem at all. 

 

Three years ago, my wife and I and one of our colleagues, took an ESL teaching gig at a cookie factory in Austin. Quite a few of their employees did not speak English and the company wanted to fix that situation. There were 27 persons who had volunteered to take English classes at work, maybe six hours a week. The first problem was how to determine divisions of 27 students among three teachers. I got out a brief "test" that I had used to determine readiness for the ALCPT tests in the past.

 

Here is a copy:

 

ORAL INTERVIEW QUESTIONS TO DETERMINE ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE

 

                                                      Block 2                 Ted Klein

 

Questions marked with an asterisk * are mandatory. Of the remaining questions, ten should be selected at random. Speech of the interviewer will be at normal speed and clarity, with NO exaggeration.

 

1. What is your name please?* -----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

2. Where are you from?* -------

 

3. What part of XXXXXXX are you from?-------

 

4. What is your native language? -------

 

5. How long have you been in America? -------

 

6. Do you read English?* -------

 

7. Did you study English in your country? -------

 

8. How long did you study English? -------

 

9. Are you enjoying the U.S.A? -------

 

10. What do you like here? -------

 

11. Is there anything that you don't like? -------

 

12. Have you studied any other languages besides English? -------

 

13. Why do you want to learn English? -------

 

14. How many years of education have you had? -------

 

15. Do you have any hobbies? What are they? -------

 

16. Do you have any American friends to practice English with? -------

 

17. Do you work?  Where? -------

 

18. What are your plans for the future? -------

 

19. Why did you come to America? -------

 

20. Do you have any questions for me? -------

 

 

Mark responses: 0 no answer.   0+ telegraphic/very simple response. 

1 simple, but complete response.  1+ functional and clear response.

2   somewhat elaborate, fairly clear and mostly grammatical response.

 

Interviewees with ten or more answers in the 1+ to 2 range should be ready to take a written

proficiency test of listening and reading skills. Non-readers are excluded. (ref: Ques. 6)

 

The three of us interviewed the 27 candidates together. 19 out of the 27 were not able to answer the second question: e.g. (Teacher) Where are you from?

(Candidate) ?Mande?  (Teacher) Where are you from? ?Como?  (Teacher) Are you from Mexico? (Candidate) M?xico, "jes." One answered, "M?xico, no, Peru s?."

 

The 8 students who were able to answer that question and maybe four or five more questions were assigned to an "advanced class." The others were split into two groups. What happened here? Many of these persons had lived in Austin for some time. Some for up to ten years. Most had families. The families naturally used Spanish at home, even their children who spoke English at school. They had Spanish-speaking supervisors. They watched television in Spanish. They ate at Mexican restaurants. They went to Spanish-speaking doctors. 95% of their friends were Hispanic. In plain language, if they wanted to stay at the cookie factory, making cookies, they didn't need English, although the company preferred that they know English for upward mobility. This program went on for three or four months.The company merged and our program ended. We did not use Spanish in class. In early training I use materials that I developed based on some of the old "direct methods;" picture flashcards, Cuisenaire rods, etc. and we also concentrated strongly on English sounds, particularly listening and identification. The program went surprisingly well and many of the students were very disappointed when it ended. They had already found some new places to go and some were acquiring English-speaking friends.

 

So what is the good news? Several of our former students have entered the Austin Community College AE program and are doing well. One of them is in my class now. She has a child and often works at night at the cookie factory. Sometimes she comes in looking very tired, but she's surviving. She wants to be a Certified Nursing Assistant. She'll make it! She plans to take the GED in English next year and enter the Nursing Program at ACC. Most of her future patients will not be bilingual and she will be ready for them. 

 

That's about it.

 

Ted  

www.tedklein-ESL.com

 

----- Original Message ----- 

	From: andresmuro at aol.com 

	To: assessment at nifl.gov 

	Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 12:02 PM

	Subject: [Assessment 1153] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!

	 

	Ted:
	
	How would the employer know the language that Julian took the GED in?
	In most states the certificate does not tell you the Language. Texas is one of the few states that tells you the language. However, it is so hard to find that most people wouldn't even know. I have a hard time finding the language reference even though I have seen millions of certificates. Fact is most employers don't even know that people can take the GED in anything other than English, don't ask and do not scrutinize certificates to figure out scores, language, etc. A few might, but the majority don't. For low literacy Spanish speakers it may take them a couple of years to be ready to take the GED in Spanish. It make take them 2 more years to be ready for the English GED. Would you rather hold them two more years. They can take the GED in Spanish and continue to study English. Once they have sufficient English, they can decide if they want to take it in English or to move on to other things.
	
	Andres

	 

	 

	-----Original Message-----
	From: Ted Klein <taklein at austin.rr.com>
	To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
	Sent: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 6:58 am
	Subject: [Assessment 1150] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!

	Jodi and Andres,

	 

	There is one very real problem with taking the GED in Spanish that I'm aware of. If you have two immigrants, Roberto and Ju?n, and they both apply for the same job and if Ju?n took the GED in Spanish and Roberto took it in English, guess who gets the job?

	Yes, life isn't fair, but most U.S. businesses prefer persons who have gone "all the way" with English. My students and I have discussed this and they have seen or know of this situation with their friends and family members. That is why many AE students remain longer in our ESL classes. Of course in many border towns, this may not be as important since many of the employers are Hispanic or are native speakers of English who are functional in Spanish. However, many customers of the businesses will need to use English. 

	 

	In my current class in Austin, Texas with eleven students, five different languages are spoken. Should we offer the GED in Arabic, Chinese, Korean, and Juba as well as Spanish?

	 

	 

	Ted

	www.tedklein-ESL.com 

	 

	 

	 

	----- Original Message ----- 

		From: andresmuro at aol.com 

		To: crandall at umbc.edu ; assessment at nifl.gov 

		Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 5:21 PM

		Subject: [Assessment 1146] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!

		 

		Jodi:
		
		The credit ESL program in the college is very academic. However it provides students with financial aid and other goodies. We feel that the students will not do well in a credit academic ESL program until they have a level comparable to GED in their native language. Also, a GED certificate is a way to demonstrate ability to benefit to qualify for financial aid. Those students who get into the credit ESL program without native language literacy don't do well. 
		
		Students can attend other ESL classes in the community while they are attending our classes. We stopped providing ESL because of limited funding to provide what we would consider meaningful ESL. Also, our Spanish GED program is fairly intensive and our students would not have enough time to attend an additional program. We have a few students who may be attending our classes and an ESL class concurrently. Those are a minority
		
		The truth is that we started as an ESL literacy program many years ago. There was virtually no funding for  literacy ESL unless it  had all kind of testing requirements. Also, it is very hard to train teachers to be really good at ESL. The system that encourages large number of untrained part timers prevents this from happening. 
		
		I know that a lot of people in these listservs claim exemplary service and illustrate  with examples of what they have done. I don't doubt that  their claims are 100% true. However,  we are in the minority. If I could get you and Heide and Elsa and Andy Nash and Leonore and Deborah Schwartz, and Anson Green and Federico and others to be my ESL teachers, I would have the best program in the world. However, the fact is that in addition to the barriers that ESL students face in their daily lives, plus the bureaucratic and assessment barriers that the system creates for teachers and students, plus the difficulty hiring and retaining highly qualified ESL staff makes it very difficult to have a successful ESL program. 
		
		I feel that until we get rid of WIA/NRS it will be tough to create good stuff in a systematic way. 
		
		Andres
		
		

		 

		 

		-----Original Message-----
		From: JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu>
		To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
		Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 1:27 pm
		Subject: [Assessment 1141] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!

		Andres,
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		It is great that you provide Spanish language literacy and GED classes for
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		your students.  There's no question that native language literacy
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		contributes not just to the development of the first language, but also to
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		English language development when students take oral ESL classes.  There
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		is some research in this area by Michele Burtoff with Haitians in the U.S.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		and there is a lot of research (see especially research by David Ramirez
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		which compares children who had 6, 3 or no years of bilingual education)
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		that shows that providing bilingual education not only has all the
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		benefits that would be expected, but students also achieve in English as
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		well or better than those who only had instruction in English.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		We also found that Spanish GED classes had large numbers of students at
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		the colleges, since students who take the GED in Spanish are able to
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		bypass the need for extensive ESL just to get this credential.  They might
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		want to take ESL as well, but the desire for the GED is often for
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		work-related reasons.  I'm not clear on why you ask students to wait until
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		after they have passed the GED to take ESL classes.  Can you tell us a
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		little more about that?
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		Of course not all students who enroll in adult ESL are Spanish speakers
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		and there may not be enough who speak any language to provide literacy
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		classes for them in their own language, but programs might try to partner
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		with immigrant or refugee-related community-based organizations which
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		could reach more students and also identify someone to provide the
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		instruction.  Still, there will  be students who will not be able to take
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		literacy classes in their own languages and for them, a separate ESL
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		literacy class seems to be the best option.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		It would be great to hear from others about their experiences both with
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		first language (Spanish and other languages) literacy classes, Spanish GED
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		classes, and literacy ESL classes.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		How do you place students in your literacy classes?  Do you use a
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		standardized test or do you have informal ways of determining if someone
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		would be better served in a literacy ESL class?
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		Jodi
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>  Problem is that in many ESL people are placed in ESL classes based on an
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> English placement multiple choice test. A student with advanced education
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> in L1 and one with little education in L1 may know very little English
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> and they may both be placed in the same level. The student with advance
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> education will progress much faster than the one with little education.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> The advanced L1 student will understand concepts like sentence,
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> paragraph, verb, subject, direct object, adjective, composition and essay
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> readily. The one with with little education will need to understand these
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> concepts. It takes a while for people to master these concepts. A highly
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> educated L2? learner will likely progress faster academically in a second
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> language than a fluent native speaker of that? language with limited
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> academic education, for the same reason. This is observed regularly in
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> universities all over the US. highly educated foreign students who
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> acquired English as L2 recently will do better than their Eng
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>  lish speaking counterparts in academic tasks in English. Jim Cummins has
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> articulated this clearly with his BICS and CALPS.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> In our program at El Paso Community College we have found evidence of
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> this. We stopped doing literacy ESL a while back for this reason. The
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> college has an academic ESL program. Instead of doing ESL literacy we
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> started offering Spanish Literacy and GED many years ago since the vast
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> majority of our students are Spanish speakers. Once our students acquire
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> their Spanish GED they transition into the ESL program and do better than
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> those students who don't have L1 academic skills. Even if takes them a
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> while to acquire the L1 literacy, they will do better. Those with no L1
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> literacy often stay in ESL forever and they drop out, start again in
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> another program, drop out and continue the same pattern. I think that this
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> happens because of the mixture of academically ready students and those
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> that are not ready, since most ESL programs focus on traditional
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> academics. For L1 low literacy students to be able to progress in L2 there
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> has to be a program specifically designed for them that teache
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>  s skills in L2 in new and innovative ways without interference from
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> academically skilled L1 students. Right now we don't have a system that
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> systematically does this, and the WIA/NRS system prevents this form
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> happening.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> Hope that this makes sense,
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> Andres
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> -----Original Message-----
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> From: Jackie Coelho <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 5:01 am
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> Comments?!
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> Forrest,
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> ?? I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> background and those without. These two groups have such different needs.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> of either group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> does not keep up with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> often become frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> instructor keeps up with those students, the others are unable to keep up
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> and they get frustrated.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> ? I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> Jackie
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> ?
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> student performance:
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> ?
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> educated students do better in terms of ?persistence, learning gains, and
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> makes? Or any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> education that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> completely illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> school graduates, college graduates, etc. -- ?or is level of prior
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> education pretty much of a continuum?
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> ?
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably students
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> definition) ?in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> math. Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> desirable to place less highly educated students in separate classes from
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> those with more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> them accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> the Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> "bi-lingual education" that should be tried?
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> ?
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means),
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very little education
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> in their native countries and too little money to serve them. ?So anyone
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> who has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> lot by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> ?
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> Forrest Chisman
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> Vice President
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> CAAL
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> ?
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> ??
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> ?
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov <mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov?> ] On
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> To: The Assessment Discussion List
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> Comments?!
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> ?
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
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		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> Hi Jackie,
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual education
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> in the K-12 school system.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> Tina
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> Tina Luffman
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> Coordinator, Developmental Education
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> Verde Valley Campus
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> 928-634-6544
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> tina_luffman at yc.edu
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
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		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> "Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
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		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> Please respond to
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
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		> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
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		> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or ? ? ?
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> ?Comments?!
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
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		> Hi Tina,
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> or third language.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> written.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> Jackie
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> Hi list members,
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to that
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> of
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> they
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather quickly
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> and
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their country
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> or
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> advancement.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> This experience relates well to research done among Native American
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> tribes
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> literacy
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> tried
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their own
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> easier
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this is
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> something deserving more research.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> Tina
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> Tina Luffman
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> Coordinator, Developmental Education
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> Verde Valley Campus
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> 928-634-6544
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> Comments?!
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> Warning: (not named).
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> information.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> years)
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> particularly if
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> would
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> student
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> he/she
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> to
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> concept
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> in a second language.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> a
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> from
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> classes).
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> It's
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> teachers.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> me
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> making some progress.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> ________________________________
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> Hello everyone,
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> I'm so surprised! ?No one has anything to comment on regarding your
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? ?I was very
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> Dr.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research: ?a lack of intensity
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> of
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> for
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> professional development.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> student
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> from advancing? ?What do you try to do about that?
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> Please post your questions and comments now.
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> Thanks!
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> Marie Cora
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> Marie Cora
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com?> >
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		>
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
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		Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
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		University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
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JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

Professor and Director

Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program

Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education

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1000 Hilltop Circle

Baltimore, MD 21250

tel:  410-455-2313

fax: 410-455-8947

eml: crandall at umbc.edu

 

 





 

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From macsimoin at hotmail.com  Fri Feb  8 15:24:37 2008
From: macsimoin at hotmail.com (Mary Lynn Simons)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 20:24:37 +0000
Subject: [Assessment 1201] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No
	Questions	orComments?!
In-Reply-To: <7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F0389D591@MAIL.cal.local>
References: <A1FACE81B7C82147B9CE6822E2D4A701022A24F8@MCMAIL2.mcnte.mc.cc.md.us>
	<3CB6A6A4-8951-4438-BD56-DEBAF6A7E6AC@umbc.edu> 
	<7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F0389D591@MAIL.cal.local>
Message-ID: <BAY115-W26BCBE0B0433F675BC7169BF2F0@phx.gbl>


I totally agree. Second-hand clothes are often seen as "dead people's clothes". Also, it can be offensive to students if they believe this is all  teachers think they can afford. We had a white elephant sale at our school once and it bombed. The students did not like the idea of old gifts. They considered in unbelievably tacky. These were Mexican students. The "dead people's clothes" came from a woman from Nepal. 

Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 15:04:13 -0500
From: mburt at cal.org
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1199] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions	orComments?!








Noa and others,
 
I like the idea of the snack bar very much, but I'm curious about 
how the concept of buying and wearing second hand clothing from strangers, 
if you will, is received by the students. My experience is that the idea 
purchasing  and wearing someone else's second-hand clothes and items is 
actually one that doesn't always translate across all cultures. True, the 
idea is highly positive among middle class here in the U.S.  where it is 
seen as a way of saving money,  being "green," and not wasting resources 
-- and this is demonstsrated by the prolitferation of trendy 2nd 
hand boutiques in cities and ads on Craig's list to sell gently used baby 
clothes (even diapers! ) and toys. However, some cultural groups may find the 
idea of buying and wearing someone else's clothing as "charity"  (as Jodi 
says below) or something somewhat distasteful.  Perhaps the fact that all 
items are 50 cents takes that edge off? Has anyone else had this 
experience with the concept of 2nd hand items and other 
cultures?
 
Great discussion here! 
Miriam
**********

Center for Adult English Language 
Acquisition
Center for Applied Linguistics
4646 40th Street NW
Washington, DC 20016
(202) 362-0700 
(202) 363-7204 (fax) 

mburt at cal.org 
(email)
 



From: 
assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of 
Jodi Crandall
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 1:18 
PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 
1192] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions 
orComments?!
Importance: Low



  Noa,
  
  These are fabulous ideas.  I especially like the emphasis on how 
  literacy level students can help those who are more educated and also 
  cooperate and compete with them in the snack bar and 
  boutique.  
  
  You have provided clear guidance on how to maximize both groups' 
  strengths and also encourage them to learn from each other.
  
  By the way, "boutique" is so much more positive a name than the usual 
  "closet" or another name that sounds like it's charity.
  
  Do others have suggestions of ways of accommodating literacy level and 
  more educated students in the same class.
  
  Jodi
  

  
  On Feb 8, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Sadan, Noa wrote:
  
    Jodi,
     
    The classroom mix of the highly educated literate students who 
    didn't know English with the literacy level beginning English students was 
    often a challenge. The first (unstated) task was to help the 
    educated students realize that they might learn a great deal from those who 
    picked up oral language faster than they did. 
     
    Techniques for dealing with the mixed 
levels:
        The Key: fostering a sense of 
    community within the class
        Main technique: Group work - teacher as enabler, 
    moving around the groups
    
              extra reading help in 
      reading given while class was working on either written assignments or 
      group projects 
              groups were mixed 
      
                    
        always by language 
                    occasionally by gender 
                    rarely by ability (only when reading 
        lessons specifically for the literacy group were 
        held)
        School Job: The Refugee Center has a working 
    Snack Bar, and Boutique (donated clothing - everything sells for fifty 
    cents/item).
    
               students polish their abilty to work 
      together 
              students learn chain of command (literacy 
      level students are supervisors just as often as the highly educated, 
      since they often have a verbal advantage) 
               literacy-level students could make 
      coffee, serve as a cashier, and give excellent customer 
      service 
              a highly educated accountant who cannot 
      get out an English sentence orally, could create a cost-accounting 
      spreadsheet see if it was less expensive to buy bulk sugar or 
      packets for coffee.
    Other projects are used as well - making recipe books, making student 
    profile books. Today, with the use of the computer, the possibilities are 
    endless for activities for mixed classes.
     
    Noa
       

    
    
    From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] 
    On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 
    2008 12:59 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion 
    List
Subject: [Assessment 1152] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No 
    Questions orComments?!


    Noa, 
    
    Thanks for sharing this.  How wonderful to have had 20 hours per 
    week for these students.  Besides mutual respect (which is very 
    important), were there ways in which students could use their complementary 
    skills to help each other.  If you could describe some of the 
    activities that you or others used that were helpful, that would be 
    great.
    
    If others of you could share your experiences with mixed classes, and 
    how you coped with them, I think a lot of us would be interested.
    
    The change to separate Listening, Reading and "Homeroom" classes is 
    also a very interesting way of meeting the needs of this diverse 
    population.  I know that many community colleges separate their 
    instruction in adult ESL to oral language skills (Listening/Speaking) and 
    written language (Reading/Writing) skills.  Are there others out there 
    who could share your experiences in this regard?
    
    The presence of World English speakers and Generation 1.5 speakers in 
    adult ESL has further complicated the situation.  I'd be interested in 
    knowing how  others  have dealt with such diverse students in 
    adult ESL/ESOL.
    
    Jodi
    
    
     
    n Feb 7, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Sadan, Noa wrote: 
    
    
      Years ago, the Montgomery County Refugee Training 
      Program (Montgomery
      College, Silver Spring, MD)had highly educated 
      people with no English,
      in class with literacy level students. It was 
      certainly difficult
      meeting the needs of all students, but in this 
      intensive 20-hours/week
      program, a tremendous mutual respect was fostered 
      between the groups.
      Typically, the highly educated students raced 
      ahead with reading and
      writing, while the literacy students sped ahead 
      with oral language. The
      Somali mother of nine would say to the Russian 
      engineer, "I wish I could
      read and write like you!", while the Russian 
      woman would reply, "I wish
      I could speak like you."
      

      All this ended with a slightly different 
      solution. The Refugee Center,
      then under the direction of Donna Kinerney, 
      divided that school day into
      separate Listening,Reading and "Homeroom" 
      classes. Homerooom took in all
      skills, plus the introduction to the American 
      workplace. This model was
      in place when we began to get World English 
      speakers who were not
      literate. It provided a solution in which they 
      could study in a
      literacy-level reading/writing class, and 
      interact in a higher level
      Listening and Homeroom class. 
      

      -----Original Message-----
      From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
      [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
      On Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
      Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM
      To: The Assessment Discussion List
      Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous 
      Content?} RE: No Questions or
      Comments?!
      

      Jackie and Forrest,
      

      I think most large programs separate literacy 
      level students from others
      who are at a beginning level.  I know that back in the 1980s 
      when there
      were large refugee ESL programs, several 
      community colleges created
      parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels and 
      even into intermediate
      levels, with one set of classes for students with 
      limited literacy or
      prior schooling and another for more educated 
      students.  The reason 
      was
      that the students with less education made slower 
      progress.  Some of
      this is undoubtedly due to the way in which we 
      teach English (requiring
      literacy), but it is also because students need 
      to become accustomed to
      attending classes, learning to hold and use a pen 
      or pencil, and a wide
      range of basic skills that come with being a 
      student in a class.
      

      Those of you who have separate classes for those 
      who need literacy:
      Can
      you tell us what kind of classes or program you 
      provide?
      

      Those who teach both literacy and more educated 
      learners in the same
      class:  
      Can you let us know how you manage?  What are some ways in 
which
      you accommodate both sets of needs?
      

      Jodi
      
        Forrest,
           
        I like the idea of separate classes for those with a 
        literacy 
        background and those without. These two groups 
        have such different 
        needs. Having both in the class make it 
        difficult for a teacher to 
        meet the needs of either group well and I find 
        that often the stronger
      

      
        students dominate the class, and their drive 
        push the teacher forward.
      

      
        If the instructor does not keep up with the 
        students who are learning 
        at a faster rate, they often become frustrated 
        and leave or mentally 
        check out. However, if the instructor keeps up 
        with those students, 
        the others are unable to keep up and they get 
        frustrated.
          
        I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And 
        regardless
      

      
        of how you do it, well-trained instructors are 
        essential.
        Jackie
        

        

        On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> 
        wrote:
        
          

           To all of you who commented 
          on level of prior education as a factor 
          in student performance:
          

          

          

          Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked 
          believes that more 
          highly educated students do better in terms 
          of  persistence, 
          learning
      

      
        
          gains, and transitions. And learning theory 
          would lead us to expect 
          this.
          Regrettably
          we found very little hard data about how much 
          difference prior 
          education makes, because too few programs 
          track the level of prior 
          education of their students and correlate it 
          with outcomes. DO any of
      

      
        
          you do this? That is, do you have any data on 
          HOW MUCH difference 
          level of prior education makes?
          Or
          any strong impressions? And are there "cut 
          points" in prior education
      

      
        
          that seem to make a difference -- e.g. 
          students who are completely 
          illiterate, students who at least reached 
          high school, high school 
          graduates, college graduates, etc. --  or is level of prior 
          education
      

      
        
          pretty much of a continuum?
          

          

          

          More importantly, what can programs DO to 
          narrow the gap between 
          highly educated students and those with less 
          prior education? 
          Presumably students with very low levels of 
          education are more likely
      

      
        
          end up in the lower level ESL courses 
          (Literacy or Low-Beginning 
          levels) why are (almost by
          definition)  in the business of teaching 
          basic literacy and sometimes
      

      
        
          math.
          Why isn't this enough? In your experience, 
          does the "gap" exist at 
          these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? 
          At any levels, would it
      

      
        
          be desirable to place less highly educated 
          students in separate 
          classes from those with more education and 
          adjust the 
          curriculum/support systems for them 
          accordingly? Some programs have 
          tried "native language literacy" or the 
          Spanish GED. What has been 
          the experience of any of you with these 
          approaches? Any other ideas? 
          IS there an adult ESL equivalent of 
          "bi-lingual education" that 
          should be tried?
          

          

          

          It seems to me that we need to come up with 
          better ideas. Because the
      

      
        
          people who study immigration tell us that the 
          level of education of 
          immigrants has been falling. And if 
          Immigration Reform mandates large
      

      
        
          numbers of undocumented people to "learn 
          English" (whatever that 
          means), ESL programs may be swamped with 
          students who have very 
          little education in their native countries 
          and too little money to 
          serve them.  So anyone who has any ideas 
          about how to bridge this 
          "education gap" could help us a lot by 
          posting ideas about how to 
          close it on this discussion list.
          

          

          

          Forrest Chisman
          

          Vice President
          

          CAAL
          

          

          

          

          

          

          

          *From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
          [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
          *On
          Behalf Of *Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
          *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 
          PM
          *To:* The Assessment Discussion List
          *Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous 
          Content?} RE: No 
          Questions or Comments?!
          

          

          

          

          Hi Jackie,
          

          Thank you for this information. I believe 
          this research must be what 
          my former Spanish teacher was basing her 
          argument on for bilingual 
          education in the K-12 school system.
          

          Tina
          

          Tina Luffman
          Coordinator, Developmental Education
          Verde Valley Campus
          928-634-6544
          tina_luffman at yc.edu
          

            
          *"Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>* 
          Sent by: 
          assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
          

          02/05/2008 11:13 AM
          

          Please respond to
          The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
          

          To
          

          "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
          

          cc
          

          Subject
          

          [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} 
          RE: No Questions or  
          Comments?!
          

          

          

          

          

          

          Hi Tina,
          

          This has been researched already and is the 
          basis for the arguement 
          in favor of bilingual education, a good idea 
          that was not implemented
      

      
        
          in the best way. For many years people have 
          known that a good 
          foundation in literacy in the first language 
          will facilitate learning
      

      
        
          in a second or third language.
          

          Another interesting twist is the existence of 
          languages that are not 
          written.
          

          Jackie
          

          

          On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> 
          wrote:
          
            Hi list members,
            

            My experience teaching ELAA students in the 
            GED class is similar to
          that
          of
          
            Gail. If the student has a solid 
            educational background in the 
            country
          they
          
            came from in their native language, they 
            tend to advance rather
          quickly
          and
          
            get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade 
            educations from their
          country
          or
          
            lower tend to stay in the GED class for 
            years and do not make much 
            advancement.
            

            This experience relates well to research 
            done among Native American
          tribes
          
            teaching them English. Those Native 
            Americans who were first taught
          literacy
          
            skills in their own tongue learned English 
            much quicker than those 
            who
          tried
          
            to learn literacy skills in English without 
            that background in 
            their
          own
          
            tongue. I also found similar problems when 
            I was learning Spanish. 
            The concepts I could mentally translate 
            from English to Spanish 
            were much
          easier
          
            to grasp and learn than those I didn't know 
            in English. Perhaps 
            this
          is
          
            something deserving more research.
            

            Tina
            Tina Luffman
            Coordinator, Developmental Education Verde 
            Valley Campus
            928-634-6544
            tina_luffman at yc.edu
            

            -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
            wrote: -----
            

            To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
            From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org> Sent 
            by: 
            assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
            Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
            Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous 
            Content?} RE: No Questions or
      

      
        
          
            Comments?!
            

            

            Warning: This message has had one or more 
            attachments removed
            Warning: (not named).
            Warning: Please read the 
            "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for
          more
          
            information.
            

            In our small adult education program, my 
            experience (just about 
            three
          years)
          
            is that students with solid educational 
            backgrounds advance,
          particularly if
          
            they're not working too many hours. Those 
            who advance the slowest, 
            if
          at
          
            all, are immigrants who are barely literate 
            in their first 
            language. I
          would
          
            say that lack of education is a bigger 
            factor than lack of time; a
          student
          
            who works full-time and is exhausted often 
            will still succeed 
            because
          he/she
          
            is familiar with academic work, and is 
            goal-oriented. What we do is
          try
          to
          
            get our low-level students to come up with 
            goals, but that's a hard
          concept
          
            in a second language.
            

            This does not mean that the factors 
            mentioned in the research don't
          play
          a
          
            part, though. I'm one of those 
            barely-trained teachers 
            (transitioned
          from
          
            another career, got trained mainly through 
            workshops rather than
          classes).
          
            My skill level very well may contribute to 
            students' slow
      advancement.
      
        
          It's
          
            hard for small adult education programs to 
            get highly skilled ESL
          teachers.
          
            The pay is low and there are no benefits. 
            But my program is
          encouraging
          me
          
            to get extra training and has me on a plan 
            of improvement. I think
          we're
          
            making some progress.
            

            Does this address any of the issues? And am 
            I submitting it right?
            

            ________________________________
            

            From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
            on behalf of Marie Cora
            Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
            To: Assessment at nifl.gov
            Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or 
            Comments?!
            

            

            Hello everyone,
            

            I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to 
            comment on regarding your
      

      
        
          
            program's effectiveness at helping ESL 
            students advance??  I 
            was 
            very curious to know if subscribers 
            experience the same types of 
            issues
          that
          Dr.
          
            Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their 
            research:  a lack 
            of 
            intensity
          of
          
            instruction/few protocols for transitioning 
            students/few 
            opportunities
          for
          
            professional development.
            

            What are the issues in your program that 
            you feel inhibit the ESL
          student
          
            from advancing?  What do you try to do 
            about that?
            

            Please post your questions and comments 
            now.
            

            Thanks!
            

            Marie Cora
            Assessment Discussion List Moderator
            

            

            Marie Cora
            marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
            <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
            NIFL Assessment Discussion List 
            Moderator 
            <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
          http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
          
            

            

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      --
      JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
      Professor, Education Department
      Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy 
      & Culture Coordinator,
      Peace Corps Master's International Program in 
      ESOL/Bilingual Education
      University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC) 
      1000 Hilltop Circle,
      Baltimore, MD 21250
      ph:  
        410-455-2313/2376  
      fax:   
      410-455-8947/1880
      email: crandall at umbc.edu
      www.umbc.edu/llc/
      www.umbc.edu/esol/
      www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
      

      

      

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  JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
  Professor and Director
  Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
  Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual 
  Education
  University of Maryland Baltimore County
  1000 Hilltop Circle
  Baltimore, MD 21250
  tel:  410-455-2313
  fax: 410-455-8947
  eml: crandall at umbc.edu
  
  


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From macsimoin at hotmail.com  Fri Feb  8 15:27:23 2008
From: macsimoin at hotmail.com (Mary Lynn Simons)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 20:27:23 +0000
Subject: [Assessment 1202] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE:
	No	Questions	orComments?!
In-Reply-To: <004b01c86a81$9934a9f0$cb9dfdd0$@net>
References: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870AD7F32B@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
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	<004b01c86a81$9934a9f0$cb9dfdd0$@net>
Message-ID: <BAY115-W1173CDAB4043D2052A8DB5BF2F0@phx.gbl>


Don't forget that 1/3 of high school grads cannot pass the GED; that is how it is normed. The old test was a snap and the Spanish old test was a double snap, much easier than the English.

From: forrest at crosslink.net
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:36:58 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1193] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No	Questions	orComments?!




















Jim,

 

I?m with Jodi on this. Many people would take exception  with
the idea that the Spanish GED is too hard. I think people who have studied
economic/educational benefits by and large think BOTH the English and Spanish
GED?s, as well as high school diplomas, are TOO EASY. I believe the research
shows that GED holders have a far higher rate of placement in developmental education
than do high school graduates, but that data may be based on the OLD  GED.

 

Forrest  

 





From:
assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf
Of Jodi Crandall

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 11:49 AM

To: The Assessment Discussion List

Subject: [Assessment 1185] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
orComments?!





 

Jim,



 





I think you've summarized how I feel as well.





 





We can discuss the various options with students, but in the
end, if we offer Spanish Literacy and Spanish GED, it's their choice. 
Some will choose to do everything in English and take longer to do it, but
others will choose to work in their own language.  For some students,
the Spanish GED provides short-term benefits.  But they will still need
ESL for future academic or vocational training, if they have limited English.





 





Have any programs tried to encourage students in Spanish
Literacy or Spanish GED to take ESL classes as well?





 





Jodi





 





 





 





 





On Feb 8, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Schneider, Jim wrote:









I feel compelled to put my two cents in on the Spanish GED. 

 

My experience is that both Andres and Ted have valid points. Here
in Eastern Iowa, there are few bilingual employers. Employers that are
bilingual rarely pay the best wages and are typically short of employees if
there are any signs of INS.  

 

On the other hand, many of the students who have completed the
Spanish GED are already employed, and have fairly decent English skills, but
are short on time. Attaining the GED provides them the opportunity for
advancement at work and/or access to postsecondary education/training. 

 

It has been excruciating watch the one or two who insist on the GED
in English get through the Literature and Writing portions of the test. 

 

And the difficulty of the new Spanish GED tests are such that it is
a rare student who can pass it. The old Spanish GED was attainable for most
learners who had a 6-8th grade education. We have found that it is virtually
impossible for anyone with less than a 10-11 grade education By simply
translating the English test into Spanish and then utilizing the standard
scores/norms of the English test, students who have passed it,
have EARNED their GED. 

 

Jim S.  

 







From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Ted Klein

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 8:49 AM

To: The Assessment Discussion List

Subject: [Assessment 1175] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
orComments?!



Andres,





 





I'm not too sure that some of your perspectives haven't been
somewhat altered by living in El Paso. I say that with total respect for El
Paso and for your answer. Let me explain. First, I've lived in Texas most of my
life, except for some time overseas. I know just about all of our border towns,
from El Paso to Brownsville. I've also lived in nine countries outside of the
United States and traveled perhaps in twenty more. AXIOM: All over the
world, border towns are different  from other towns.
Persons, regardless of ancestry,  who live in border towns anywhere
tend to be bicultural and bilingual. They also tend to identify with each other
on close levels as being a well-made "tossed salad." If
most or all of your students plan to stay in El Paso for the rest of their
lives, I totally agree with what you say. However, if they want to go to cities
north of the border area; Dallas, Ft. Worth, Austin, Houston, Waco, or out of
state, then the picture changes. I am almost as comfortable in Spanish as I am
in English and have dealt with persons from every country in Latin America
comfortably and successfully, as well as Spain. However, I do not represent
anything close to a majority, particularly when it comes to having a business.
When persons go for job interviews in non-border towns, being truly
bilingual is a great asset and can even result in higher pay and better
opportunities. That is true for Spanish speakers and English
speakers. However, most of your persons who have had to take the GED in Spanish
are not truly bilingual. That's a fact and when they go for a job interview,
the human resources person doesn't need paperwork to know that there may be
communication problems with clients and on the telephone. The fact is that life
is short. However it is long enough for persons to spend a couple of more years
acquiring English if it gives them more options in life. Again, if they plan to
spend their lives in a border town, this may not be a problem at all. 





 





Three years ago, my wife and I and one of our colleagues,
took an ESL teaching gig at a cookie factory in Austin. Quite a few of
their employees did not speak English and the company wanted to fix that
situation. There were 27 persons who had volunteered to take English classes at
work, maybe six hours a week. The first problem was how to determine
divisions of 27 students among three teachers. I got out a brief
"test" that I had used to determine readiness for the ALCPT tests in
the past.





 





Here is a copy:





 







ORAL
INTERVIEW QUESTIONS TO DETERMINE ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE





 





                                                     
Block 2                 Ted Klein





 





Questions marked with an
asterisk * are mandatory. Of the remaining questions, ten should be selected at
random. Speech of the interviewer will be at normal speed and clarity, with NO
exaggeration.





 





1. What is your name please?*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------





 





2. Where are you from?*
-------





 





3. What part of XXXXXXX are
you from?-------





 





4. What is your native
language? -------





 





5. How long have you been in America?
-------





 





6. Do you read English?*
-------





 





7. Did you study English in
your country? -------





 





8. How long did you study
English? -------





 





9. Are you enjoying the
U.S.A? -------





 





10. What do you like here?
-------





 





11. Is there anything that
you don't like? -------





 





12. Have you studied any
other languages besides English? -------





 





13. Why do you want to learn
English? -------





 





14. How many years of
education have you had? -------





 





15. Do you have any hobbies?
What are they? -------





 





16. Do you have any American
friends to practice English with? -------





 





17. Do you work?  Where?
-------





 





18. What are your plans for
the future? -------





 





19. Why did you come to America?
-------





 





20. Do you have any questions
for me? -------





 





 





Mark responses: 0 no
answer.   0+ telegraphic/very simple response. 





1 simple, but complete
response.  1+ functional and clear response.





2   somewhat elaborate,
fairly clear and mostly grammatical response.





 





Interviewees with ten or more
answers in the 1+ to 2 range should be ready to take a written





proficiency test of listening
and reading skills. Non-readers are excluded. (ref: Ques. 6)







 





The three of us interviewed the 27 candidates together. 19
out of the 27 were not able to answer the second question: e.g.
(Teacher) Where are you from?





(Candidate) ?Mande?  (Teacher) Where are you from?
?Como?  (Teacher) Are you from Mexico? (Candidate) M?xico,
"jes." One answered, "M?xico, no, Peru s?."





 





The 8 students who were able to answer that question and
maybe four or five more questions were assigned to an "advanced
class." The others were split into two groups. What happened here? Many of
these persons had lived in Austin for some time. Some for up to ten years. Most
had families. The families naturally used Spanish at home, even their children
who spoke English at school. They had Spanish-speaking supervisors. They
watched television in Spanish. They ate at Mexican restaurants. They went to
Spanish-speaking doctors. 95% of their friends were Hispanic. In plain
language, if they wanted to stay at the cookie factory, making cookies, they
didn't need English, although the company preferred that they
know English for upward mobility. This program went on for three or four
months.The company merged and our program ended. We did not use Spanish in
class. In early training I use materials that I developed based on some of the
old "direct methods;" picture flashcards, Cuisenaire rods, etc. and
we also concentrated strongly on English sounds, particularly listening and
identification. The program went surprisingly well and many of the students
were very disappointed when it ended. They had already found some new places to
go and some were acquiring English-speaking friends.





 





So what is the good news? Several of our former students
have entered the Austin Community College AE program and are doing well. One of
them is in my class now. She has a child and often works at night at the cookie
factory. Sometimes she comes in looking very tired, but she's surviving.
She wants to be a Certified Nursing Assistant. She'll make it! She plans to
take the GED in English next year and enter the Nursing Program at ACC. Most of
her future patients will not be bilingual and she will be ready for them. 





 





That's about it.





 





Ted 






www.tedklein-ESL.com





 





----- Original Message ----- 







From: andresmuro at aol.com 





To: assessment at nifl.gov






Sent: Thursday, February
07, 2008 12:02 PM





Subject: [Assessment 1153]
Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!





 





Ted:



How would the employer know the language that Julian took the GED in?

In most states the certificate does not tell you the Language. Texas is one of
the few states that tells you the language. However, it is so hard to find that
most people wouldn't even know. I have a hard time finding the language reference
even though I have seen millions of certificates. Fact is most employers don't
even know that people can take the GED in anything other than English, don't
ask and do not scrutinize certificates to figure out scores, language, etc. A
few might, but the majority don't. For low literacy Spanish speakers it may
take them a couple of years to be ready to take the GED in Spanish. It make
take them 2 more years to be ready for the English GED. Would you rather hold
them two more years. They can take the GED in Spanish and continue to study
English. Once they have sufficient English, they can decide if they want to
take it in English or to move on to other things.



Andres





 





 



-----Original Message-----

From: Ted Klein <taklein at austin.rr.com>

To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>

Sent: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 6:58 am

Subject: [Assessment 1150] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!





Jodi and Andres,





 





There is one very real problem with taking the GED in
Spanish that I'm aware of. If you have two immigrants, Roberto and Ju?n, and
they both apply for the same job and if Ju?n took the GED in Spanish and
Roberto took it in English, guess who gets the job?





Yes, life isn't fair, but most U.S. businesses prefer
persons who have gone "all the way" with English. My students and I
have discussed this and they have seen or know of this situation with their
friends and family members. That is why many AE students remain longer in our
ESL classes. Of course in many border towns, this may not be as important since
many of the employers are Hispanic or are native speakers of English who are
functional in Spanish. However, many customers of the businesses will need to
use English. 





 





In my current class in Austin, Texas with eleven
students, five different languages are spoken. Should we offer the GED in
Arabic, Chinese, Korean, and Juba as well as Spanish?





 





 





Ted





www.tedklein-ESL.com






 





 





 





----- Original Message ----- 







From: andresmuro at aol.com 





To: crandall at umbc.edu
; assessment at nifl.gov






Sent: Wednesday, February
06, 2008 5:21 PM





Subject: [Assessment 1146]
Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or Comments?!





 





Jodi:



The credit ESL program in the college is very academic. However it provides
students with financial aid and other goodies. We feel that the students will
not do well in a credit academic ESL program until they have a level comparable
to GED in their native language. Also, a GED certificate is a way to
demonstrate ability to benefit to qualify for financial aid. Those students who
get into the credit ESL program without native language literacy don't do well.




Students can attend other ESL classes in the community while they are attending
our classes. We stopped providing ESL because of limited funding to provide
what we would consider meaningful ESL. Also, our Spanish GED program is fairly
intensive and our students would not have enough time to attend an additional program.
We have a few students who may be attending our classes and an ESL class
concurrently. Those are a minority



The truth is that we started as an ESL literacy program many years ago. There
was virtually no funding for  literacy ESL unless it  had all kind of
testing requirements. Also, it is very hard to train teachers to be really good
at ESL. The system that encourages large number of untrained part timers
prevents this from happening. 



I know that a lot of people in these listservs claim exemplary service and
illustrate  with examples of what they have done. I don't doubt that 
their claims are 100% true. However,  we are in the minority. If I could
get you and Heide and Elsa and Andy Nash and Leonore and Deborah Schwartz, and
Anson Green and Federico and others to be my ESL teachers, I would have the
best program in the world. However, the fact is that in addition to the
barriers that ESL students face in their daily lives, plus the bureaucratic and
assessment barriers that the system creates for teachers and students, plus the
difficulty hiring and retaining highly qualified ESL staff makes it very
difficult to have a successful ESL program. 



I feel that until we get rid of WIA/NRS it will be tough to create good stuff
in a systematic way. 



Andres









 





 



-----Original Message-----

From: JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu>

To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>

Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 1:27 pm

Subject: [Assessment 1141] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

Andres,















It is great that you provide Spanish language literacy and GED classes for







your students.  There's no question that native language literacy







contributes not just to the development of the first language, but also to







English language development when students take oral ESL classes.  There







is some research in this area by Michele Burtoff with Haitians in the U.S.







and there is a lot of research (see especially research by David Ramirez







which compares children who had 6, 3 or no years of bilingual education)







that shows that providing bilingual education not only has all the







benefits that would be expected, but students also achieve in English as







well or better than those who only had instruction in English.















We also found that Spanish GED classes had large numbers of students at







the colleges, since students who take the GED in Spanish are able to







bypass the need for extensive ESL just to get this credential.  They might







want to take ESL as well, but the desire for the GED is often for







work-related reasons.  I'm not clear on why you ask students to wait until







after they have passed the GED to take ESL classes.  Can you tell us a







little more about that?















Of course not all students who enroll in adult ESL are Spanish speakers







and there may not be enough who speak any language to provide literacy







classes for them in their own language, but programs might try to partner







with immigrant or refugee-related community-based organizations which







could reach more students and also identify someone to provide the







instruction.  Still, there will  be students who will not be able to take







literacy classes in their own languages and for them, a separate ESL







literacy class seems to be the best option.















It would be great to hear from others about their experiences both with







first language (Spanish and other languages) literacy classes, Spanish GED







classes, and literacy ESL classes.















How do you place students in your literacy classes?  Do you use a







standardized test or do you have informal ways of determining if someone







would be better served in a literacy ESL class?























Jodi















>







>  Problem is that in many ESL people are placed in ESL classes based on an







> English placement multiple choice test. A student with advanced education







> in L1 and one with little education in L1 may know very little English







> and they may both be placed in the same level. The student with advance







> education will progress much faster than the one with little education.







> The advanced L1 student will understand concepts like sentence,







> paragraph, verb, subject, direct object, adjective, composition and essay







> readily. The one with with little education will need to understand these







> concepts. It takes a while for people to master these concepts. A highly







> educated L2? learner will likely progress faster academically in a second







> language than a fluent native speaker of that? language with limited







> academic education, for the same reason. This is observed regularly in







> universities all over the US. highly educated foreign students who







> acquired English as L2 recently will do better than their Eng







>  lish speaking counterparts in academic tasks in English. Jim Cummins has







> articulated this clearly with his BICS and CALPS.







>







> In our program at El Paso Community College we have found evidence of







> this. We stopped doing literacy ESL a while back for this reason. The







> college has an academic ESL program. Instead of doing ESL literacy we







> started offering Spanish Literacy and GED many years ago since the vast







> majority of our students are Spanish speakers. Once our students acquire







> their Spanish GED they transition into the ESL program and do better than







> those students who don't have L1 academic skills. Even if takes them a







> while to acquire the L1 literacy, they will do better. Those with no L1







> literacy often stay in ESL forever and they drop out, start again in







> another program, drop out and continue the same pattern. I think that this







> happens because of the mixture of academically ready students and those







> that are not ready, since most ESL programs focus on traditional







> academics. For L1 low literacy students to be able to progress in L2 there







> has to be a program specifically designed for them that teache







>  s skills in L2 in new and innovative ways without interference from







> academically skilled L1 students. Right now we don't have a system that







> systematically does this, and the WIA/NRS system prevents this form







> happening.







>







> Hope that this makes sense,







>







> Andres







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







> -----Original Message-----







> From: Jackie Coelho <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>







> To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>







> Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 5:01 am







> Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or







> Comments?!







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







> Forrest,







>







>







> ?? I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy







> background and those without. These two groups have such different needs.







> Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs







> of either group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate







> the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor







> does not keep up with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they







> often become frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the







> instructor keeps up with those students, the others are unable to keep up







> and they get frustrated.







>







>







>







> ? I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of







> how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.







>







>







> Jackie







>







> ?







>







>







> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







> To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in







> student performance:







>







>







> ?







>







>







> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly







> educated students do better in terms of ?persistence, learning gains, and







> transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably







> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education







> makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of







> their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That







> is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education







> makes? Or any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior







> education that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are







> completely illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high







> school graduates, college graduates, etc. -- ?or is level of prior







> education pretty much of a continuum?







>







>







>







> ?







>







>







> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly







> educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably students







> with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower







> level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by







> definition) ?in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes







> math. Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at







> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be







> desirable to place less highly educated students in separate classes from







> those with more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for







> them accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or







> the Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these







> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of







> "bi-lingual education" that should be tried?







>







>







>







> ?







>







>







> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the







> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of







> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large







> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means),







> ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very little education







> in their native countries and too little money to serve them. ?So anyone







> who has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a







> lot by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.







>







>







>







> ?







>







>







> Forrest Chisman







>







>







> Vice President







>







>







> CAAL







>







>







> ?







>







>







> ??







>







>







> ?







>







>







>







>







> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On







> Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu







>







> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM







> To: The Assessment Discussion List







> Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or







> Comments?!







>







>







>







>







>







>







> ?







>







>







>







> Hi Jackie,







>







> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my







> former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual education







> in the K-12 school system.







>







>







> Tina







>







> Tina Luffman







> Coordinator, Developmental Education







> Verde Valley Campus







> 928-634-6544







> tina_luffman at yc.edu







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







> "Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>







>







> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov







>







>







> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







> Please respond to







> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







> To







>







>







>







>







>







> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







> cc







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







> Subject







>







>







>







>







>







> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or ? ? ?







> ?Comments?!







>







>







>







>







>







>







> ?







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







> Hi Tina,







>







> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in







> favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in







>







> the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation







> in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second







> or third language.







>







> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not







> written.







>







>







> Jackie







>







>







> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:







>







>> Hi list members,







>>







>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to that







>> of







>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country







>> they







>







>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather quickly







>> and







>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their country







>> or







>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much







>







>> advancement.







>>







>> This experience relates well to research done among Native American







>> tribes







>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught







>> literacy







>







>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who







>> tried







>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their own







>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The







>







>> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much







>> easier







>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this is







>> something deserving more research.







>







>>







>> Tina







>> Tina Luffman







>> Coordinator, Developmental Education







>> Verde Valley Campus







>> 928-634-6544







>> tina_luffman at yc.edu







>







>>







>> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----







>>







>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>







>







>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>







>> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov







>







>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM







>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or







>> Comments?!







>>







>>







>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed







>







>> Warning: (not named).







>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more







>> information.







>>







>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three







>> years)







>







>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,







>> particularly if







>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at







>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I







>> would







>







>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a







>> student







>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because







>> he/she







>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try







>> to







>







>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard







>> concept







>> in a second language.







>>







>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play







>> a







>







>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned







>> from







>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than







>> classes).







>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.







>> It's







>







>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL







>> teachers.







>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging







>> me







>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're







>







>> making some progress.







>>







>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?







>>







>> ________________________________







>>







>







>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora







>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM







>







>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov







>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!







>







>>







>>







>> Hello everyone,







>>







>> I'm so surprised! ?No one has anything to comment on regarding your







>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? ?I was very







>







>> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that







>> Dr.







>> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research: ?a lack of intensity







>> of







>> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities







>> for







>







>> professional development.







>>







>> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL







>> student







>> from advancing? ?What do you try to do about that?







>>







>







>> Please post your questions and comments now.







>>







>> Thanks!







>>







>> Marie Cora







>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator







>>







>>







>







>> Marie Cora







>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com







>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>







>







>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator







>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment







>







>>







>>







>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and







>> intended







>> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are







>> addressed.







>> If you have received this email in error please notify the system







>> manager.







>







>> This message contains confidential information and is intended only for







>> the







>> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not







>> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.







>







>> -------------------------------







>> National Institute for Literacy







>> Assessment mailing list







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>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to







>







>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment







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>>







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>























-- 







JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall







Professor, Education Department







Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture







Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual







Education







University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)







1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250







ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880







email: crandall at umbc.edu







www.umbc.edu/llc/







www.umbc.edu/esol/







www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html































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JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall





Professor and Director





Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program





Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education





University of Maryland Baltimore County





1000 Hilltop Circle





Baltimore, MD 21250





tel:  410-455-2313





fax: 410-455-8947





eml: crandall at umbc.edu





 





 











 









_________________________________________________________________
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From mjjerdems at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  8 15:37:33 2008
From: mjjerdems at yahoo.com (Mary Jane Jerde)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:37:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Assessment 1203] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questionsor
	Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <00c001c86a68$75e58be0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
Message-ID: <980494.60063.qm@web54002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Interesting, especially on the last point. I'm currently attempting something like that with the English Verb Wall. 

The books you mention would be great reference books for staff and students. 

Mary Jane Jerde


Ted Klein <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:     v\:* {  BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } o\:* {  BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } w\:* {  BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } .shape {  BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) }                 Mary Jane,
  
 If you want your students to get a better grasp on grammatical terminology  I strongly recommend "Gram?tica Espa?ola para Estudiantes de Ingl?s" by Anna I  Levenson. It not only gives the terminology in both English and Spanish, it  gives examples from both languages. It is published by Olivia and Hill  Press  www.oliviahill.com   Most Spanish-speaking students that I have had, inlcluding some university  graduates, have never studied the grammar of their own language. They also have  a book, "English Grammar for Students of Spanish," which is quite useful for ESL  teachers who need a comparison of the two languages, particularly for problem  analysis. They have similar materials for other languages that all look good.  They are also quite readable. One doesn't need a docturate in linguistics to  read them!
  
 By the way. I teach all of the major verb tenses at one time and find that  a holistic view is better than one or two tenses at a time. This even works for  me at lower levels. My wife, who loves grammar, thinks I'm crazy. That's  O.K.
  
  
 Ted
 www.tedklein-ESL.com 
  
  
    ----- Original Message ----- 
   From:    Forrest    Chisman 
   To: 'The Assessment Discussion List' 
   Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 8:00    PM
   Subject: [Assessment 1168] Re: {Dangerous    Content?} RE: No Questionsor Comments?!
   

      Mary    Jane,
    
   Thanks    for this input. I gather that all of your classes mix students with different    levels of higher education. Is that right? If so, how do you manage to find    the time (or manage the class) so that you can provide this extra help to    students with low levels of prior education? About how many hours/week do your    classes meet? Also, I think we?d all like to hear some examples of the    cooperation and teamwork you mention, and its results. This seems to be an    important, but too little documented theme.
    
   Forrest      
    
      From:    assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf    Of Mary Jane Jerde
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:31    PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List; Jodi    Crandall
Subject: [Assessment 1164] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No    Questions or Comments?!

    
   I was going to write a very similar message based on my    experience working under Barbara Denman at the erstwhile refugee program in    Prince George's County, Maryland. 

Now that I work in a community    college with ESL classes that span the lowest level ESL and academic    experience to the higher levels of college credit classes, my experience has    grown. The principles of both cooperation and teamwork in learning and    separation by level still hold true. Students benefit from knowing that they    need to help each other. It's part of our culture, surprise, surprise. The    institution where I work has six levels of class for the various language    skills, so there's lots of separation by level. 

What I have found    myself doing with high beginning students and intermediates with less    education in their home countries is preparing them for the grammatical terms    that will come their way if they continue to take ESL classes. I also work    diligently with them to have a firm grasp of basic English grammar, especially    verbs. This will help them at work or if they decide to begin ABE classes,    where the grammar focus is not normally on their kind of grammar issues.    

Mary Jane Jerde
ESL Instructor
Howard Community    College

"Sadan, Noa"    <Noa.Sadan at montgomerycollege.edu> wrote:
   Years ago, the Montgomery County Refugee Training Program    (Montgomery
College, Silver Spring, MD)had highly educated people with no    English,
in class with literacy level students. It was certainly    difficult
meeting the needs of all students, but in this intensive    20-hours/week
program, a tremendous mutual respect was fostered between the    groups.
Typically, the highly educated students raced ahead with reading    and
writing, while the literacy students sped ahead with oral language.    The
Somali mother of nine would say to the Russian engineer, "I wish I    could
read and write like you!", while the Russian woman would reply, "I    wish
I could speak like you."

All this ended with a slightly    different solution. The Refugee Center,
then under the direction of Donna    Kinerney, divided that school day into
separate Listening,Reading and    "Homeroom" classes. Homerooom took in all
skills, plus the introduction to    the American workplace. This model was
in place when we began to get World    English speakers who were not
literate. It provided a solution in which    they could study in a
literacy-level reading/writing class, and interact in    a higher level
Listening and Homeroom class. 

-----Original    Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov    [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi)    Crandall
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM
To: The Assessment    Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No    Questions or
Comments?!

Jackie and Forrest,

I think most    large programs separate literacy level students from others
who are at a    beginning level. I know that back in the 1980s when there
were large    refugee ESL programs, several community colleges created
parallel ESL    classes for the beginning levels and even into intermediate
levels, with    one set of classes for students with limited literacy or
prior schooling    and another for more educated students. The reason was
that the students    with less education made slower progress. Some of
this is undoubtedly due    to the way in which we teach English (requiring
literacy), but it is also    because students need to become accustomed to
attending classes, learning    to hold and use a pen or pencil, and a wide
range of basic skills that come    with being a student in a class.

Those of you who have separate classes    for those who need literacy:
Can
you tell us what kind of classes or    program you provide?

Those who teach both literacy and more educated    learners in the same
class: Can you let us know how you manage? What are    some ways in which
you accommodate both sets of needs?

Jodi
>    Forrest,
> I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy    
> background and those without. These two groups have such different    
> needs. Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to    
> meet the needs of either group well and I find that often the    stronger

> students dominate the class, and their drive push the    teacher forward.

> If the instructor does not keep up with the    students who are learning 
> at a faster rate, they often become    frustrated and leave or mentally 
> check out. However, if the    instructor keeps up with those students, 
> the others are unable to    keep up and they get frustrated.
> I think that literacy could perhaps    be separated out. And regardless

> of how you do it, well-trained    instructors are essential.
> Jackie
>
>
> On 2/5/08,    Forrest Chisman wrote:
>>
>> To all of you who commented on    level of prior education as a factor 
>> in student    performance:
>>
>>
>>
>> Everyone with    whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more 
>> highly    educated students do better in terms of persistence, learning

>>    gains, and transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect    
>> this.
>> Regrettably
>> we found very little    hard data about how much difference prior 
>> education makes,    because too few programs track the level of prior 
>> education of    their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of

>> you    do this? That is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference 
>>    level of prior education makes?
>> Or
>> any strong    impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior education

>>    that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are completely    
>> illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high    school 
>> graduates, college graduates, etc. -- or is level of prior    education

>> pretty much of a    continuum?
>>
>>
>>
>> More importantly,    what can programs DO to narrow the gap between 
>> highly educated    students and those with less prior education? 
>> Presumably students    with very low levels of education are more likely

>> end up in    the lower level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning 
>> levels)    why are (almost by
>> definition) in the business of teaching basic    literacy and sometimes

>> math.
>> Why isn't this    enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at 
>> these levels    too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it

>> be    desirable to place less highly educated students in separate 
>>    classes from those with more education and adjust the 
>>    curriculum/support systems for them accordingly? Some programs have    
>> tried "native language literacy" or the Spanish GED. What has    been 
>> the experience of any of you with these approaches? Any    other ideas? 
>> IS there an adult ESL equivalent of "bi-lingual    education" that 
>> should be    tried?
>>
>>
>>
>> It seems to me that we    need to come up with better ideas. Because the

>> people who    study immigration tell us that the level of education of 
>>    immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates    large

>> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English"    (whatever that 
>> means), ESL programs may be swamped with students    who have very 
>> little education in their native countries and too    little money to 
>> serve them. So anyone who has any ideas about how    to bridge this 
>> "education gap" could help us a lot by posting    ideas about how to 
>> close it on this discussion    list.
>>
>>
>>
>> Forrest    Chisman
>>
>> Vice President
>>
>>    CAAL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    *From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
>>    [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
>> *On
>> Behalf Of    *Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32    PM
>> *To:* The Assessment Discussion List
>> *Subject:*    [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No 
>> Questions or    Comments?!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi    Jackie,
>>
>> Thank you for this information. I believe this    research must be what 
>> my former Spanish teacher was basing her    argument on for bilingual 
>> education in the K-12 school    system.
>>
>> Tina
>>
>> Tina    Luffman
>> Coordinator, Developmental Education
>> Verde    Valley Campus
>> 928-634-6544
>>    tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>
>> *"Jackie Coelho" * Sent by:    
>> assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>
>> 02/05/2008    11:13 AM
>>
>> Please respond to
>> The Assessment    Discussion List 
>>
>> To
>>
>> "The    Assessment Discussion List" 
>>
>>    cc
>>
>> Subject
>>
>> [Assessment 1108]    Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or 
>>    Comments?!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    Hi Tina,
>>
>> This has been researched already and is the    basis for the arguement 
>> in favor of bilingual education, a good    idea that was not implemented

>> in the best way. For many years    people have known that a good 
>> foundation in literacy in the first    language will facilitate learning

>> in a second or third    language.
>>
>> Another interesting twist is the existence    of languages that are not 
>> written.
>>
>>    Jackie
>>
>>
>> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu    wrote:
>> > Hi list members,
>> >
>> > My    experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to
>>    that
>> of
>> > Gail. If the student has a solid    educational background in the 
>> > country
>>    they
>> > came from in their native language, they tend to advance    rather
>> quickly
>> and
>> > get their GED.    Those coming with 6th grade educations from their
>>    country
>> or
>> > lower tend to stay in the GED class    for years and do not make much 
>> > advancement.
>>    >
>> > This experience relates well to research done among    Native American
>> tribes
>> > teaching them English.    Those Native Americans who were first taught
>> literacy
>>    > skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those    
>> > who
>> tried
>> > to learn literacy    skills in English without that background in 
>> >    their
>> own
>> > tongue. I also found similar problems    when I was learning Spanish. 
>> > The concepts I could mentally    translate from English to Spanish 
>> > were much
>>    easier
>> > to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in    English. Perhaps 
>> > this
>> is
>> >    something deserving more research.
>> >
>> >    Tina
>> > Tina Luffman
>> > Coordinator, Developmental    Education Verde Valley Campus
>> > 928-634-6544
>> >    tina_luffman at yc.edu
>> >
>> >    -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>> >
>>    > To: "The Assessment Discussion List" 
>> > From: "Gail    Burnett" Sent by: 
>> > assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>    > Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
>> > Subject: [Assessment 1104]    {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or

>> >    Comments?!
>> >
>> >
>> > Warning: This    message has had one or more attachments removed
>> > Warning: (not    named).
>> > Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt"    attachment(s) for
>> more
>> > information.
>>    >
>> > In our small adult education program, my experience    (just about 
>> > three
>> years)
>> > is    that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
>>    particularly if
>> > they're not working too many hours. Those who    advance the slowest, 
>> > if
>> at
>> > all,    are immigrants who are barely literate in their first 
>> >    language. I
>> would
>> > say that lack of education is a    bigger factor than lack of time; a
>> student
>> > who    works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed 
>> >    because
>> he/she
>> > is familiar with academic work,    and is goal-oriented. What we do is
>> try
>> to
>>    > get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a    hard
>> concept
>> > in a second language.
>>    >
>> > This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the    research don't
>> play
>> a
>> > part, though.    I'm one of those barely-trained teachers 
>> >    (transitioned
>> from
>> > another career, got trained    mainly through workshops rather than
>> classes).
>> > My    skill level very well may contribute to students'    slow
advancement.
>> It's
>> > hard for small adult    education programs to get highly skilled ESL
>> teachers.
>>    > The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is
>>    encouraging
>> me
>> > to get extra training and has me    on a plan of improvement. I think
>> we're
>> > making    some progress.
>> >
>> > Does this address any of the    issues? And am I submitting it right?
>> >
>> >    ________________________________
>> >
>> > From:    assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
>> > Sent: Mon    2/4/2008 6:50 PM
>> > To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>> >    Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>>    >
>> >
>> > Hello everyone,
>>    >
>> > I'm so surprised! No one has anything to comment on    regarding your

>> > program's effectiveness at helping ESL    students advance?? I was 
>> > very curious to know if subscribers    experience the same types of 
>> > issues
>>    that
>> Dr.
>> > Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their    research: a lack of 
>> > intensity
>> of
>>    > instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few 
>>    > opportunities
>> for
>> > professional    development.
>> >
>> > What are the issues in your    program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>> student
>> >    from advancing? What do you try to do about that?
>> >
>>    > Please post your questions and comments now.
>> >
>>    > Thanks!
>> >
>> > Marie Cora
>> >    Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>> >
>>    >
>> > Marie Cora
>> >    marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>> > 
>> > NIFL    Assessment Discussion List Moderator 
>> > 
>>    http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> >
>>    >
>> > This email and any files transmitted with it are    confidential and
>> intended
>> > solely for the use of    the individual or entity to whom they are
>> addressed.
>>    > If you have received this email in error please notify the    system
>> manager.
>> > This message contains    confidential information and is intended only
>> for
>>    the
>> > individual named. If you are not the named addressee you    should not

>> > disseminate, distribute or copy this    e-mail.
>> > -------------------------------
>> >    National Institute for Literacy
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>> > To unsubscribe or    change your subscription settings, please go to 
>> > 
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>> >
>> >
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>


--
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor,    Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy &    Culture Coordinator,
Peace Corps Master's International Program in    ESOL/Bilingual Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)    1000 Hilltop Circle,
Baltimore, MD 21250
ph: 410-455-2313/2376 fax:    410-455-8947/1880
email:    crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html



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From mjjerdems at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  8 15:43:08 2008
From: mjjerdems at yahoo.com (Mary Jane Jerde)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:43:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Assessment 1204] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <0FA3F320-ACE2-46C1-AA0E-2AB1B06274CA@umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <139987.13848.qm@web54003.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi,

The focus of class is speaking, so I don't give the students any scale score reading or writing tests. Giving two oral post-tests takes enough time. 

For class I do test the various skills. 

Mary Jane

Jodi Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu> wrote: Mary Jane,

Thanks for sharing your experiences.


Do you also use a reading and/or writing test at any of the adult ESOL levels?


Jodi
On Feb 7, 2008, at 7:18 PM, Mary Jane Jerde wrote:

As an ESL instructor who has used BEST Plus for pre-test and post-test scoring in grant funded classes, I have found the test to be an accurate gauge of student placement and growth in English.

One advantage is that I have been able to test new students myself and have post-testing done by various other ABE or ESL instructors. They were all trained by BEST Plus staff. Before a test session the examiner and I go through a review. I have sat with the examiners for initial post-test sessions to have them gain confidence in their abilities. But I had faith that a "subjective" test could be accurate because I had used BEST for seven years in a refugee program and knew it's value for placement. 

The program does a fine job of adjusting level of difficulty based on feedback from responses. 

Is one test ever enough? No. But I have enjoyed the benefit of being able to use both CASAS and BEST Plus in smaller community programs. 

Mary Jane Jerde
ESL Instructor
Howard Community College



"Cohen, Jonathan" <Jonathan.Cohen at dol.state.nj.us> wrote:             Good reply.
  Jon
   
  Jonathan Cohen
  Workforce Readiness & Literacy
  NJ Dept. of Labor & Workforce Development 
   
      
---------------------------------
  
  From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Michelle Ueland
 Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 4:10 PM
 To: The Assessment Discussion List
 Subject: [Assessment 1158] Re: Observation checklist
  
   
   
  Dear Assessment Listserv Members,
  It is with great interest that we have been following this discussion regarding one of our assessments, BEST Plus, and its use for oral proficiency meaurement on initial placement and learner progress. 
  As other assessments have been brought into the discussion, we would like to provide the following clarification, taken verbatim from the DLIELC Website: http://www.dlielc.org/testing/ALCPT.html : "DLIELC conducts English language proficiency testing using the Oral Proficiency Interview (OPI), a face-to-face or telephonic interview, and the English Comprehension Level (ECL) test, a multiple choice test of listening and reading comprehension. (The ECL test is provided to authorized US Government users only.) DLIELC also makes available the American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT) for English language programs conducted outside of DLIELC. Achievement testing of American Language Course (ALC) objectives is conducted using book quizzes and performance tests, which can be obtained with the course materials." 
  According to the April 2007 edition of the Handbook for the American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT): "The most important consideration under the general topic of test security is test compromise. One of the easiest ways to compromise any test is through its inappropriate use." Given the definitions above, there are many reasons to question the appropriateness of using any of the above mentioned tests with the adult ESL population in the U.S.
  Currently, BEST Plus is the only assessment developed specifically for use with adult English language learners in educational programs, which simultaneously measures adults' listening and speaking skills. As the BEST Plus Level Gain study shows ( http://www.cal.org/resources/digest/levelgain.html ), more hours equals more gains, whether that be during one academic year (intensity of instruction) or over an adult's lifetime (persistence as a learner). Furthermore, this study also shows that not only is BEST Plus appropriate for initial placement, but it is also a good measure of student progress. In many ways, BEST Plus brings the knowledge and design of other oral proficiency instruments to the field of adult ESL in a highly accessible manner. Test administrations are relatively inexpensive when compared to the high cost of other oral proficiency assessments, the results accurate and immediate, and for the first time, instructors are able to confirm many of their "gut
 instinct" and "handshake" evaluations based on their expertise and familiarity with the adult ESL population in a standardized manner that is scored by a common rubric.
  In regard to test administrator training, another advantage to BEST Plus is that ESL instructors are able to engage in professional development in the area of proficiency assessment. Across the country, responses to BEST Plus training are overwhelmingly positive. Our core of trainers does fantastic work to educate practitioners about the differences between being a good teacher and being a good standardized test administrator, in addition to training test administrators to administer and score BEST Plus. Furthermore, there are several opportunities for previously trained test administrators to recalibrate their scoring accuracy through the use of the Scoring Refresher Toolkit within their local programs and states. In this way, programs can confirm their inter-rater reliability, as CAL has also done during the development and design of BEST Plus. We would encourage anyone interested in finding out more about the design of BEST Plus and its high rate of inter-rater
 reliability to read the BEST Plus Technical Manual.
  Finally, we hope that programs using BEST Plus continue to see the benefits of providing adults ESL learners with data regarding their oral proficiency level and progress. Particularly adults with many commitments need this type of information offered at their convenience locally by their service providers. By knowing their levels, program directors and instructors can to continue to make instructional and programatic decisions based on learner needs and to assist the learners in their own educational goal setting.
  Michelle M. Ueland
  Adult ESL Assessments
  Center for Applied Linguistics
     
    
---------------------------------
  
  From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
 Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:27 PM
 To: The Assessment Discussion List
 Subject: [Assessment 1157] Re: Observation checklist
  Ted and all, 
     
  
    I imagine others would like to have access to the ALCPT information as well.
  
     
  
    I have also given the OPI, not as a certified interviewer but with a lot of training in its use.  I use it  as part of information gathering in reviewing programs overseas, to see what various levels of instruction correspond to in proficiency terms. I haven't used it with adult ESL population.  Like Mary Margaret, I have found that it takes about the same amount of time.  
  
     
  
    Do others have the same concerns about the BEST Plus?
  
     
  
    Jodi
  
     
  
    On Feb 7, 2008, at 12:58 PM, Ted Klein wrote:
  
          Jodi,
  
     
  
    My wife, Mary Margaret, was a certified OPI interviewer at DLI. She says that the average interview was 20 minutes. This depends on the interviewee's level. Two people interview. The higher the level, the longer the test. It's a really good test. The bad news is that there is/was something like a 40% failure rate for certification of interviewer among instructors and staff. Some of these people were pretty sharp, but doing it is an art and a science. There is no question the OPI is the state-of-the-art. Even experienced interviewers get frequent tune-ups. I believe that the OPI scoring system with the + indicating 60% of the next higher level COULD be simplified and adapted to adult education. However, if progress has to be shown as often as now, real proficiency doesn't change that fast and could cost programs $ when they submit their paperwork.  IF it were done after maybe 120 class hours, there may be significant changes.
  
     
  
    Although I got the training, I bribe other people to do the BEST Plus on my students, including Mary Margaret! I think that it's fine for placement, but really doesn't work for "progress" for a number of reasons. Even when people are trained to use it properly, there is enormous difference, even in how the interviewers expresses themselves orally and make scores. If we have to continue using the BEST tests, another thing that I would like to see is small teams of really good and consistent interviewers that do the tests on all of the students. A weak measurement system is the Achilles Heel in Adult Education.
  
     
  
    I would prefer the use of the American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT). If you will give me an e-mail address that is convenient, I will send you more information on it from my old workshops. It's cheaper, quicker, and quite accurate. I totally agree with you that teacher wisdom is also a good way to determine where and when the student should move on. Unfortunately, many managers don't trust the peasants! There are also several good ways to place people that don't involve their ability to read the ALCPT.
  
     
  
    I put out an Adult Education/ESL Newsletter once in a while. I recently did an article on the OPI, which may answer more of the questions. Here it is:
  
     
  
     
  
    Adult Education/ESL News Letter; the Federal Oral Proficiency Interview   Jan. 8, 2008    Ted Klein
  
     
  
      For many years the Foreign Service Institute (FSI) of the United States conducted interviews of foreign language proficiency to measure the understanding and production of languages acquired by their staff. This test was also used by some other federal agencies and was adapted by some civilian language programs as a measure of their graduates. This test expressed performance using scores ranging from zero to five. For decades it was the best game in town. The problem is that both the interview techniques and scoring systems in the FSI exam were not as objective as needed for some persons, whose jobs required very specific scores that would be important to accomplishment of their missions.
  
     
  
    Language proficiency testing needs have always depended on the terminal objectives of the students. In most cases, a well-designed comprehension test is adequate and may be used for language class placement, graduation criteria, determination of readiness for certain jobs, training, or education, etc. During my twenty years with the   Defense Language Institute  English Language  Center, all students were tested with the English Comprehension Level (ECL) test, which was developed as an overall measure of listening and reading skills. This test was developed and maintained by individuals whose primary expertise was in valid measurement procedures assisted by a team of persons who developed multiple choice test items that were based more on their language expertise than math. Scores were in a sense arbitrary and didn't represent a "percentage" of anything. However the use of an ECL test to determine readiness for international military personnel from many countries to
 participate in U.S.military training was considered a very reliable source of measuring English-language readiness. The test measured listening and reading skills and was "loaded" with numerous structural, vocabulary and phonological factors. It was multiple choice and could be administered in an hour to a large group of students. Students went on from DLIELC for training as pilots, staff college attendees, electronics specialists, medical personnel, etc. and enjoyed a very low failure rate due to language factors. Often, the comprehension scores tended to reflect competence in spoken English, because most of these students had acquired English in a balanced environment of listening, speaking, reading and writing skills. The DLIELC program itself was fairly uniform in which all American Language Course materials were systematically provided for specific lengths of time to teaching staff trained to use specific methodologies. DLIELC students normally start their training in
 their home countries and later go to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio to finish general English when their ECL scores meet predetermined criteria to continue to continue on to study specialized terminology.
  
     
  
    In the 1980's a gentleman from the Central Intelligence Agency was tasked with the production of a more objective oral language measurement system than the FSI exam, with truly meaningful scores and criteria. He accomplished that mission and the new Oral Proficiency Interview (OPI) examination was designed. That's the good news! The bad news is that it is both an art and a science to administer. A copy of the criteria and rating factors is below. It can be found at the DLIELC website at http://www.dlielc.org/testing/opi_profile.html  This OPI took care of the majority of the problems with the older FSI exam, including a very tight and variable interview system in which persons were taken to their highest level of oral communication. Both listening and speaking skills receive a score. The chart below reflects whole number judgments with a performance-based description of what the person being tested can do with the language. The problem is that even after two weeks of
 training persons to administer the test, there is a rather high failure rate among tester candidates. At one time potential interviewer failures rates were as high as 40%. Tests are administered by pairs of persons who have to agree on a score. I have seen persons with graduate degrees in linguistics fail to become certified interviewers and persons with much less technical expertise succeed and become very competent certified interviewers. The OPI is now used in numerous programs throughout the military, intelligence and diplomatic communities. It is NOT used in place of other valid testing instruments. It is reserved as a supplement for persons in which a known language production level is required. This may include persons who will be air traffic controllers or pilots in which verbal communication skills can be critical.
  
     
  
    The ROTC programs at the University of Puerto Rico require OPI scores for their cadets who become officers in the U.S. military establishment. They also have required ECL scores, and candidates must also be verbally competent in spoken English to get their commissions and succeed in adequate communication for their jobs in the military. The required score to enroll in the ROTC program is an ECL of 75 and an OPI score of 2/1+. One year later the required ECL score is 80 with a 2/2 OPI. To be commissioned in the  U.S. Military the required ECL is 90 and the required OPI is 2+/2. The first number (2+) reflects listening comprehension and the second number reflects speaking ability. When we include the + (plus) designation, this means that the candidate performs at the next higher level at least 60% of the time. Therefore, if we go from 0 (no competence) to five (educated native speaker competence) there are eleven possible levels including the pluses. The difficult part
 for most interviewers is reaching the candidates' real levels, measuring objectively, and having each interview so different from the last one that the possibility of compromise through information sharing is very unlikely. An ECL score of 90 is equivalent to a TOEFL score of 550, which is adequate for an international student to get into many American universities. The American Language Course Proficiency Test (ALCPT) is made from expired ECL tests and can be made available to civilian institutions.
  
     
  
    Why am I telling you about all of this? I was in management work at DLIELC when the OPI system was introduced and never had reason to become a certified interviewer. However, what I find exciting is that the OPI Rating Factor Grid below describes the natural sequence in which our ESL students acquire English. It is a recapitulation of the entire never-ending process of getting a new language. I'm guessing that average competent foreign language majors in a good university would graduate with a 3/3 OPI score in their target languages. The numbers in the OPI can only hint at how long and complicated a process we have to go through to really be truly functional in a second language. For travelling or living in another country for a while, 2/1+ is a very reasonable goal. The chart should give ESL instructors strong insight into both teaching objectives and what their students are going through.  
  
     
  
    There is a short general article on my website about language testing at
  
     http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/lang_tests.html  
  
     
  
     
  
    Ted
  
   
           Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
   Independent Consultant in Language
          and Intercultural Training
               14456 Agarita Road
           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
              Phone:512-266-1801
               taklein at austin.rr.com        
             www.tedklein-ESL.com     
              
  
   
   
   
   
    OPI  RATING  FACTOR  GRID
  
        
      Interactive Comprehension
      Structural Control  Texts Produced      Lexical Control
      Delivery
      Sociolinguistic Competence
      Global Tasks and Functions
      0+
         The individual   understands a number of short, memorized utterances in areas of immediate   needs; frequent, long pauses and repeated requests for repetition.  
   
         No control. Can only   use memorized structures. 
   
      Individual   words and phrases.
   
         Memorized words and   phrases related to immediate survival needs.
   
         Even in memorized   speech, stress, intonation, tone usually quite faulty.
   
         Severely limited.    Any knowledge of cultural appropriateness has a nonlinguistic source
   
         Can make statements   and ask questions using memorized material.
   
      1
         A native speaker   must often use slowed speech, repetition, paraphrase, or a combination of   these to be understood by this individual.  Misunderstandings are frequent,   but the individual is able to ask for help and to verify comprehension of   native speech in face-to-face interaction. 
   
         Structural accuracy   is random or severely limited.  Almost every utterance has errors in basic   structures.  Time concepts are vague.  Can formulate some questions.  
   
      Discrete sentences.
   
         Very limited.    Covers courtesy expressions, introductions, identification, personal and   accommodation needs, daily routine.
   
         Often speaks with   great difficulty. Pronunciation, stress, intonation generally poor.
   
         Uses greetings and   courtesy expressions.  Can interact with native speakers used to dealing with   non-natives.
   
         Can create   sentences; begin, maintain, and close short conversations by asking and   answering simple questions; satisfy simple daily needs.
   
      2
         The individual can get the gist of most   everyday conversations, but has some difficulty understanding native speakers   in situations that require a specialized or sophisticated knowledge.  (May   require a native speaker to adjust to his/her limitations in some way).  
   
         Discourse is   minimally cohesive.  Grammatical structures are usually not very elaborate   and not thoroughly controlled; errors are frequent.  Simple structure and   basic grammatical relations are typically controlled.  
   
      Full   paragraphs.
   
         Sufficient to   discuss high frequency concrete topics such as work, family, personal   background and interests, travel, current events.  Imprecise for less common   topics.
   
         Speaks with   confidence but not facility.  Can usually be understood by those not used to   dealing with non-natives.
   
         Satisfies routine   social demands and limited work requirements.  Can interact with native   speakers not used to dealing with non-natives; native speakers may have to   adjust to limitations.
   
         Can describe people,   places, and things; narrate current, past, and future activities in full   paragraphs; state facts; give instructions or directions; ask and answer   questions in the work place; deal with non-routine daily situations.
   
      3
         In face-to-face   conversation with natives speaking the standard dialect at a normal rate of   speech, comprehension is quite complete.  Although cultural references,   proverbs, and the implications of nuances and idiom may not be fully   understood, the individual can easily repair the conversation.  
   
         Effectively combines   structure and vocabulary to convey meaning. Discourse is cohesive.  Use of   structural devices is flexible and elaborate.  Errors occur in low frequency   and highly complex structures; but structural inaccuracy rarely causes   misunderstanding.  
   
      Extended discourse.
   
         Broad enough for   effective formal and informal conversations on practical, social, and   professional topics.  Can convey abstract concepts.
   
         Speaks readily and   fills pauses suitably.  Pronunciation may be obviously foreign. Flaws in   stress, intonation, pitch rarely disturb the native speaker.
   
         Uses cultural   references.  When errors are made, can easily repair the conversation.
   
         Can converse   extensively in formal and informal situations; discuss abstract topics;   support opinions; hypothesize; deal with unfamiliar topics and situations;   clarify points.  
   
      4
         Can understand   native speakers of the standard and other major dialects in  essentially any   face-to-face interaction.  Can understand the details and ramifications of   concepts that are culturally or conceptually different from his/her own.    Understands shifts of both subject matter and tone.  
   
         Organizes discourse   well, using appropriate rhetorical devices and high level discourse structures.   
   
      Speeches,   lectures, debates, 
   
      conference   discussions.
   
         Precise for   representational purposes within personal and professional experience.  Can   elaborate concepts freely; choose appropriate words to convey nuances of   meaning.
   
         Speaks effortlessly   and smoothly, but would seldom be perceived as a native speaker.
   
         Uses and   understands details and ramifications of target cultural references. Can set   and shift the tone of exchanges with a variety of native speakers.
   
         Can tailor language   to fit the audience; counsel; persuade; represent an official point of view;   negotiate; advocate a position at length; interpret informally.
   
      5
         (No gaps in   comprehension, including all details and nuances.)
   
         Functionally   equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.  
   
      All texts controlled   by a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.
   
         Breadth of   vocabulary and idiom equivalent to that of a highly articulate, well-educated   native speaker.
   
         Functionally equivalent   to a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker of a standard dialect.
   
         Speech reflects the   cultural standards of country where language is natively spoken.
   
         Functionally   equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.
   
       DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03 (Reverse)
  
       OPI    PERFORMANCE  PROFILE         RATERS
   
         DATE
   
         Check One:
   
         C
   
         S
   
       
         ENTRY
   
         Mid
   
      Exit       
       
         SCN/TEL OPI CODE
   
         RANK/NAME
   
         CY
   
         GRAD DATE
   
         SET CODE
   
         TEACHER/ROOM NO.
   
         VERIFICATION
   
      Interactive Comprehension      Structural   Control / Texts Produced      Lexical Control
       
       
       
      Delivery
      Sociolinguistic Competence
      Global Tasks and Functions
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
           DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03
  
   
   
   
                                                    
  
       ----- Original Message ----- 
  
  
      From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
  
    To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
  
    Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:45 AM
  
    Subject: [Assessment 1149] Re: Observation checklist
  
  
     
  
  Ted,
 
 Did you use an oral proficiency interview at the Defense Language
 Institute?  If so, how log did it take to administer to each student?  I
 think time is a real barrier to most adult ESL/ESOL programs.  Thus, they
 use tests that can be administered to students as a group and easily
 evaluated.
 
 For some college programs for international students, a whole range of
 tests are used for placement, including a writing sample, a reading test,
 and an oral interview.  Clearly that's more possible with smaller numbers
 of students who are also paying for the classes.
 
 What do you think is needed in the way of tests?  In Passing the Torch,
 Forrest and I point to assessment as a major issue facing all the colleges
 we studied.  We recommend the development of a test of all four skills
 that, if possible, could be administered and scored in a reasonable amount
 of time.
 
 Have you tried the BEST Plus test?  What has been your experience with
 that test?
 
 I agree that for placement at literacy levels, a simple test developed by
 a program might be sufficient.
 
 I also think that for progress through the levels, student achievement in
 the previous class, as judged by the instructor ("professional wisdom"),
 is still the best determiner of whether a student is ready to go to the
 next level.
 
 Jodi
 
 
 > Jodi,
 >
 > Same here! As long as the BEST Test is used to show gains, I'm afraid that
 > there isn't much chance that REAL gains could be charted and compared. It
 > is used too often to measure progress and is not as good for that purpose
 > as one would hope. Really valid proficiency tests are the only way to
 > prove the point. Achievement tests don't tell much in terms of overall
 > progress. I would also guess that it would take a minimum of 120 hours of
 > solid training to have a measureable level with any test that one could
 > play numbers with. Other factors including attendance, etc. would have to
 > be factored in. Adults have families and jobs in the way of total
 > dedication to attendance. Also, one would have to have a test in which
 > human judgment would play a small role. The BEST is fine for its original
 > purpose, which was to place persons with others at their same levels of
 > communication. Good measurement is the only way to prove anything. I often
 > rely on plain old gut instincts to figure how things are really going. I
 > know that's not very scientific.
 >
 > Cheers,  Ted
 > www.tedklein-ESL.com
 >
 >
 > ----- Original Message -----
 > From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
 > To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
 > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:05 PM
 > Subject: [Assessment 1138] Re: Observation checklist
 >
 >
 > Hi, Ted.  Glad to make contact again.
 >
 > I definitely agree that smaller classes are more likely to bring learner
 > gains, especially in language, since students will have more opportunity
 > to speak when there are fewer students.  I didn't know about the DLI
 > policy, but it is a good one.  The problem with adult ESL classes, I fear,
 > is that there is such limited money available that programs would find it
 > difficult to keep class size to these numbers.
 >
 > Has anyone tried to reduce class size and chart the learning gains?  If
 > so, please share with us all.  It might be that this would be a good
 > investment.  If students in smaller classes make faster gains, then there
 > would be more spaces available as these students transitioned to other
 > classes or the workforce.
 >
 > Jodi
 >
 > Hi Jodi,
 >>
 >> Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times in the
 >> past,
 >> I think at least once when you visited the Defense Language Institute
 >> English Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I
 >> mention
 >> DLI is that it represents a language program with little leeway to fail.
 >> I
 >> spent 20 years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is to train
 >> allied and friendly military personnel worldwide in general and
 >> specialized English. Most students start ESL in their home countries
 >> with
 >> DLIELC personnel advising, and in some cases teaching, in these overseas
 >> military language centers. It may still be the largest language program
 >> in
 >> the world. Students after reaching certain levels go to Lackland Air
 >> Force
 >> Base in San Antonio, complete their general English, usually go through
 >> specialized terminology and then on to whatever training their country
 >> needs with the U.S. military. Students have run the full gamut from
 >> recruits and NCO's up to generals and admirals. This is a very tightly
 >> organized "well-packaged" language program with predictable training
 >> times
 >> and results.
 >>
 >> Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb while I was at
 >> at DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum. This was
 >> rarely broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters' bean
 >> counter would calculate that if a mere two or three students could be
 >> added to a class, voila, look at the money we would save! This money
 >> came
 >> both from foreign governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue and then
 >> try
 >> it, I believe several times over the years. However, in an organization
 >> that has a very effective testing system; both achievement and
 >> proficiency, it was soon noticed that the scores were going down, just
 >> enough so that they could prove that no money was being saved on teacher
 >> salaries and other expenses. I spent three years with the Royal Thai
 >> Navy
 >> for DLI as language training advisor and remember having to twist arms
 >> with the RTN Navy Education Department with the same problem. They
 >> wanted
 >> 15 in a class.
 >>
 >> Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during my last
 >> eight years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes have
 >> consistently been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an
 >> organization is stuck with a low budget, make the hours of training per
 >> week lower, but keep the class sizes within 10 or so students. Fewer
 >> hours
 >> of really effective training are certainly better than large classes
 >> where
 >> the student attention level and collegiality are reduced. I remember
 >> Mary
 >> Finocchiaro saying years ago that she didn't care how many students were
 >> in her classroom, she would teach them! Unfortunately, most of us just
 >> aren't THAT dynamic.
 >>
 >> Cheers,  Ted
 >> www.tedklein-ESL.com
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> ----- Original Message -----
 >> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
 >> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
 >> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM
 >> Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist
 >>
 >>
 >> Usha,
 >>
 >> I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
 >> experience that with more than 10 students, learning decreases?  If so,
 >> how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be
 >> interested
 >> in ways to decrease class size.
 >>
 >> It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
 >> constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more
 >> important
 >> to involve them in activities in which all get to participate, which
 >> means
 >> less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small classes
 >> need that.
 >>
 >> What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?
 >>
 >> You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop out of
 >> classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any of you
 >> keep
 >> records of your students that would identify those who do return?  Do
 >> you
 >> have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning English
 >> outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know of any
 >> research about adult English Language Learners in this area, but there
 >> is
 >> an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State
 >> University
 >> following adult literacy level students for several years.  They have
 >> identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside of the
 >> classroom and also that some of these learners come back to classes
 >> after
 >> being out of them for some time.
 >>
 >> Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of you been
 >> able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of these
 >> services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have been most
 >> effective? If you teach in a community college, have your students had
 >> access to the various support services provided to other students?
 >>
 >> Several of you have talked about the differences in progress made by
 >> students with more advanced education and those who are at literacy
 >> level.
 >>  Because literacy level students take longer in making progress, most
 >> programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and
 >> literate
 >> beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and literacy
 >> will
 >> need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to talk about
 >> what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about
 >> persistence
 >> of literacy level students and their learning gains.
 >>
 >> Students with advanced education in their own language may be able to
 >> have
 >> a condensed program since they are already experienced as students and
 >> often have high motivation to get through English so that they can take
 >> courses related to their previous or future career.  City College of San
 >> Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters worth of
 >> work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer something along
 >> these lines?
 >>
 >> Jodi
 >>
 >>
 >>> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked the tool
 >>> that
 >>> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope that it
 >>> is
 >>> not
 >>> something that has already been asked and answered.
 >>>
 >>> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of our ESL
 >>> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal constraints
 >>> and
 >>> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a positive
 >>> to
 >>> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we expect to see
 >>> more
 >>> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the numbers.
 >>>
 >>> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy programs
 >>> because of many socio-economic factors.
 >>>
 >>> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing market (in
 >>> past
 >>> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to stay in
 >>> one
 >>> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen more in
 >>> people
 >>> who do not have high levels of education from their native country).
 >>>
 >>> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from their
 >>> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some kind of
 >>> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs, go in and
 >>> out
 >>> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of various
 >>> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and have no time
 >>> to
 >>> practice.
 >>>
 >>> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in educational
 >>> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
 >>> availability
 >>> of  community resources.
 >>>
 >>> Usha Narayanan
 >>> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
 >>> California
 >>> 408-522-2737
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
 >>>
 >>>> Marie,
 >>>>
 >>>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and out of the
 >>>> U.S.A.
 >>>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc. in ESL.
 >>>> It
 >>>> is
 >>>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that I'm
 >>>> back
 >>>> in the
 >>>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the Defense
 >>>> Language
 >>>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching immigrants part
 >>>> time for
 >>>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin
 >>>> Community
 >>>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what language
 >>>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to work at a
 >>>> higher
 >>>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I
 >>>> apply
 >>>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy
 >>>> traps."
 >>>> I
 >>>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
 >>>> interested and
 >>>> it is published on my website at
 >>>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel absolutely free
 >>>> to use
 >>>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank you very
 >>>> much for
 >>>> the input. Questions are welcome.
 >>>>
 >>>> Cheers,   Ted
 >>>>
 >>>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
 >>>>   Independent Consultant in Language
 >>>>          and Intercultural Training
 >>>>                 14456 Agarita Road
 >>>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
 >>>>              Phone:512-266-1801
 >>>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
 >>>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
 >>>>
 >>>>
 >>>> ----- Original Message -----
 >>>>>
 >>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Hi  Ted,
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it
 >>>>> yourself?
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try
 >>>>> to
 >>>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do others
 >>>>> you
 >>>>> work with?
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the
 >>>>> students
 >>>>> advance?
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Marie
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
 >>>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
 >>>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
 >>>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
 >>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
 >>>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
 >>>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> Marie,
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> Ted
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
 >>>>>>  NO
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>    supportive personality?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>    other and the instructor?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>     target language  proficiency?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>     than push them?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>     exaggerated speech?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>     results?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> ---- Original Message -----
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Hello  everyone,
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on  regarding
 >>>>>>> your
 >>>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??  I was
 >>>>>>> very
 >>>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
 >>>>>>> that
 >>>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
 >>>>>>> intensity
 >>>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
 >>>>>>> opportunities
 >>>>>>> for  professional development.
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit the ESL
 >>>>>>> student
 >>>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Thanks!
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Marie  Cora
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Marie  Cora
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
 >>>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> -------------------------------
 >>>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
 >>>>>>> Assessment mailing list
 >>>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
 >>>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
 >>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 >>>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> -------------------------------
 >>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
 >>>>> Assessment mailing list
 >>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
 >>>>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings, please go to
 >>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 >>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
 >>>>
 >>>>
 >>>> -------------------------------
 >>>> National Institute for Literacy
 >>>> Assessment mailing list
 >>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
 >>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
 >>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
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 >>> Scanned by Barracuda Spam Firewall
 >>> -------------------------------
 >>> National Institute for Literacy
 >>> Assessment mailing list
 >>> Assessment at nifl.gov
 >>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
 >>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 >>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
 >>>
 >>
 >>
 >> --
 >> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
 >> Professor, Education Department
 >> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
 >> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in
 >> ESOL/Bilingual
 >> Education
 >> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
 >> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
 >> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
 >> email: crandall at umbc.edu
 >> www.umbc.edu/llc/
 >> www.umbc.edu/esol/
 >> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> -------------------------------
 >> National Institute for Literacy
 >> Assessment mailing list
 >> Assessment at nifl.gov
 >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
 >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 >> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
 >> National Institute for Literacy
 >> Assessment mailing list
 >> Assessment at nifl.gov
 >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
 >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 >> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
 >>
 >
 >
 > --
 > JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
 > Professor, Education Department
 > Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
 > Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
 > Education
 > University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
 > 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
 > ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
 > email: crandall at umbc.edu
 > www.umbc.edu/llc/
 > www.umbc.edu/esol/
 > www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
 >
 >
 >
 > -------------------------------
 > National Institute for Literacy
 > Assessment mailing list
 > Assessment at nifl.gov
 > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
 > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 > Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
 > National Institute for Literacy
 > Assessment mailing list
 > Assessment at nifl.gov
 > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
 > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 > Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
 >
 
 
 -- 
 JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
 Professor, Education Department
 Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
 Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
 Education
  University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
   1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
 ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
 email: crandall at umbc.edu
 www.umbc.edu/llc/
 www.umbc.edu/esol/
 www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
 
 
 
 -------------------------------
 National Institute for Literacy
 Assessment mailing list
 Assessment at nifl.gov
 To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com 
    -------------------------------
  
    National Institute for Literacy
  
    Assessment mailing list
  
    Assessment at nifl.gov
  
    To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
  
    Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
  
    
   
      JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
  
    Professor and Director
  
    Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
  
    Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
  
    University of Maryland Baltimore County
  
    1000 Hilltop Circle
  
    Baltimore, MD 21250
  
    tel:  410-455-2313
  
    fax: 410-455-8947
  
    eml: crandall at umbc.edu
  
     
  
     
  
  
 
 
  
     
  
    
  -------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to mjjerdems at yahoo.com

       


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Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
 

 JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor and Director
Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
University of Maryland Baltimore County
1000 Hilltop Circle
Baltimore, MD 21250
tel:  410-455-2313
fax: 410-455-8947
eml: crandall at umbc.edu





 


-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to mjjerdems at yahoo.com


       
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From jhalaesl at aol.com  Fri Feb  8 15:50:46 2008
From: jhalaesl at aol.com (jhalaesl at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 15:50:46 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1205] Re: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <9896493C-9886-4CD1-8578-D7DD25EEE11D@umbc.edu>
References: <CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B2E@exchr.raritanval.edu>	<007201c86a04$26b41a50$741c4ef0$@net>	<CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B3C@exchr.raritanval.edu>	<001f01c86a69$364ee6b0$a2ecb410$@net>	<8CA3889EA7B2E7B-1014-2817@webmailbeta-m10.sysops.aol.com>
	<9896493C-9886-4CD1-8578-D7DD25EEE11D@umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <8CA38AB69CF6173-11A8-26BB@webmail-stg-d09.sysops.aol.com>


 


 We do have a WIB Literacy Committee and a Literacy Council linked to that committee. Well-intentioned participants but no action/change seems to result from meetings. There is not budget--or at least no funding freely available to the participating providers. Instead the $ flows through the One Stop Learning Link, targeting important needs that are often not the predominant needs of our ESL/ESOL programs. FYI - the Learning Link is managed by the local college (RVCC where Kevin is working)

The council coordinates dialog but always with a To-Work focus.

Actually the best collegial connections have come through professional organizations (NJALL - New jersey Association for Lifelong Learning)? and through contacts made while presenting at Adult Ed conferences.
How to find time and money for more adult educators to attend those conferences? and how to keep the enthusiasm and motivation going long enough afterward to effect some benefit?

Joanne



 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jodi Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 1:09 pm
Subject: [Assessment 1191] Re: (no subject)









Joanne,



Bravo!? Making connections with such limited funds is critical.? I remember when major cities had? councils which coordinated literacy/ESL services.? I wonder if any of you have some kind of even an? informal network that meets to discuss the most efficient and effective ways to use the minimal funds that are available.

Jodi




On Feb 8, 2008, at 11:50 AM, jhalaesl at aol.com wrote:



 Not always the reason for an LEA-to-local college turnover of those federal and state adult ed funds
 In my experience, it has simply and sadly been the result of limited resources and insufficient funds.
 And in some areas a CBO (not an LEA) manages those grant programs, offers classes free to the lowest literacy ESL/ESOL students, and is never able to fully bridge the gap between very part-time instruction and college.
 
 One key element to our small successes has been having colleagues in each institution (local college, LEA, CBO, gov't DOE/DOL) who understand the dynamics and the gaps. Granted, most are still limited by the systems in which they work and to which they must be accountable. But there is still much to be said for permitting ourselves some case-by-case thinking, making those simple phone calls, and asking.
 
 Joanne Hala
 Literacy Serrvices
 Jointure for Community Adult Education, Inc.
 
 
 
?ve heard an increasing number of stories about areas were the LEA runs the federal/state ?adult education ESL grant program and has asked the local college to take it over (because the LEA has concluded it?s an ?adult? program). Have there been any rumblings of that in your area?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net>
 To: 'The Assessment Discussion List' <assessment at nifl.gov>
 Sent: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 10:42 am
 Subject: [Assessment 1179] Re: (no subject)
 
 
 
 
Kevin,
 
?
 
Thanks for the explanation. I find it VERY useful. It?s a very interesting model. I?m not surprised that your students are motivated for college, because they?ve signed up for a college prep track! What worries me are the limited aspirations of many lower level ESL students who may have college potential. 
 
?
 
I understand now why you don?t have the resources to operate a more comprehensive program. I?ve heard an increasing number of stories about areas were the LEA runs the federal/state ?adult education ESL grant program and has asked the local college to take it over (because the LEA has concluded it?s an ?adult? program). Have there been any rumblings of that in your area?
 
?
 
Best of luck in your good work.
 
?
 
Forrest ???
 
?
 
 
 
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
 Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 9:42 AM
 To: The Assessment Discussion List; The Assessment Discussion List
 Subject: [Assessment 1174] Re: (no subject)
 
 
 
?
 
 
 
I believe we do have a hard time getting enough students fed into our program and with the appropriate background to succeed if they do come to us. It is a real problem. There are some workplace ESL programs which are run through our Corporate and Continuing Education Office, but those students rarely, if ever, come to us. And they serve the employees of specific companies as opposed to the community at large. 
 
 
 
?
 
 
 
Our ESL program is within an academic department in the college (Communication and Languages) and so is run like every other. ESL students pay the same tuition and fees as all other students at the college. We do not receive special government funding beyond what the state and counties provide for the college as a?whole as a part of our yearly budget.
 
 
 
?
 
 
 
Finances are probably a big reason why we are getting fewer students at the low levels. Community programs are free or low cost; although in the scheme of higher education, the community college is less expensive, it may still be out of reach of many students. 
 
 
 
?
 
 
 
In terms of having a more comprehensive program, we are limited by a small staff, and the unlikelihood of being able to expand given college budgeting restraints. In addition, our three full-time faculty members (including myself) not only teach 15 credit hours per semester but also do the administrative work required. We do advising, scheduling, and the many other tasks associate with keeping the program afloat. The only "official" administrative support for the program is through the 3 hours of overload I receive to serve as Adjunct Coordinator. 
 
 
 
?
 
 
 
The belief that they can attend college does not seem to be a problem with our population although I can certainly see that it could be. A growing problem for us (and many around the country) is the disconnect between high schools and colleges in terms of student preparation. Either the high schools do not think the students are college-bound and so don't bother to give them a college-prep course of study, or there is simply a growing gap between the expectations of each. Additionally, students seem to think that a high school diploma equates to college readiness.
 
 
 
?
 
 
 
We do our best to advise students, but we don't always have enough time - and as professors primarily - may not know ourselves what all of the options for students are. 
 
 
 
?
 
 
 
 
 
Kevin 
 
 
 
 
?
 
 

 
 
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Forrest Chisman
 Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 10:38 PM
 To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
 Subject: [Assessment 1172] Re: (no subject)
 
 
 
Dear Kevin,
 
?
 
Many thanks for providing all of us with a profile of your program. Seeing the variety of college program goals and designs is extremely valuable in stimulating ideas about how to do a better job in delivering ESL.
 
?
 
Personally, I think that it is perfectly valid for colleges to elect to offer solely pre-academic ESL at the non-credit level. But it does prompt the concern about whether other programs in the college?s service area are providing non-academic ESL to large enough numbers of students and at a high enough quality to ?feed? the college program ? as well as how well their efforts articulate with yours. I wonder whether this troubles you, and if so whether/how you have addressed the issue. ?Frankly, I think one reason why many colleges offer comprehensive ESL programs is that they would prefer to ?make? pre-academic students themselves, rather than rely on others to do it. Another reason, of course, if that they may not be eligible for federal/state grant money unless they offer comprehensive programs. Does your college receive these funds to support its pre-academic program? If not, how is it supported financially?
 
?
 
I heartily agree that helping students set realistic goals and understand their options is essential. I believe, however, that encouraging students to expand their goals as they succeed is also essential. For example, many immigrants come from countries where going to college is the privilege of very few, and thus may consider that an unrealistic goal ?unless they are encouraged to take the steps necessary (often one step at a time). The problem seems to be that it is hard for most programs to find the resources to provide very much guidance of any of these kinds to most students. I wonder if anyone has any solutions to THAT issue. 
 
?
 
In any event, many thanks for fleshing out an interesting model. ?
 
?
 
Forrest ????
 
?
 
 
 
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
 Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:19 PM
 To: assessment at nifl.gov
 Subject: [Assessment 1148] (no subject)
 
 
 
?
 
 
 
Hi All,
 
 
 
?
 
 
 
I have been reading most of the discussion comments and wanted to address a few issues. First, however, I'll give a summary of our program. 
 
 
 
?
 
 
 
I teach ESL at Raritan Valley Community College in New Jersey. Our program serves approximately 350 students from diverse language backgrounds. Our program offers two pre-academic levels of all skills ESL instruction (a six hour per week non-credit class). In addition, we have 5 levels of academic ESL preparation divided into three courses?- Reading/Writing, Grammar, and Speaking/Listening). Our highest level Reading/Writing course gives successful students 6 elective credits that count towards RVCC graduation, but those credits do not transfer. Our semesters are 15 weeks. If a student misses 20% of any class, the instructor may withdraw that student (they are not, however, obliged to withdraw these students). At the moment, the late enrollment policy is that students may register for a course prior to the second week of class but not thereafter. Research, of course, indicates that students who begin a class late have a much higher rate of failure than those who begin on time. 
 
 
 
?
 
 
 
In our program, we have three full-time faculty and approximately 16-18 adjuncts. 
 
 
 
?
 
 
 
We have focused our program on academic prep ESL because we are a small program with limited resources, and we have a very difficult time finding qualified adjuncts. Also, a significant majority of our students?have signalled their intention?to obtain a college degree. Moreover, there are community programs that offer basic English skills although there is often a long waiting list to obtain the services. In other issues, we use the Accuplacer ESL test for placement and have in-house standardized tests at the end of each level of grammar and reading/writing
 
 
 
?
 
 
 
Within our classes, highly educated non-native speakers usually progress much more quickly. One of the most challenging groups is students who graduated from local high schools but still have inadequate English skills - and not infrequently, weak academic skills in general. One of the strategies that I would personally wish for is real communication between K-12 and community colleges so that students get the language skills they need before they enter college. I understand that there is great pressure to move students out of ESL in many school districts, but ultimately, it does a huge disservice both financially and in terms of motivation to students whose skills remain more BICS than CALP. 
 
 
 
?
 
 
 
I agree with those who suggest that first language literacy issues should be addressed before students enter ESL. However, it becomes complicated to find funding and support for such efforts. In my experience, students with low level literacy skills become frustrated and are not ultimately successful?- probably by any definition. I am uncomfortable with the idea that they are spending hard-earned money when the chances for success in ESL are minimal. We advise students that the program is academically-oriented; often they have little understanding of what that means. 
 
 
 
?
 
 
 
I do not agree with the suggestion that the bar be lowered so that students with low-intermediate skills be allowed in credit classes (at least at my college). Historically, other faculty have little experience handling language issues and are very unhappy when students cannot read, write and converse at an appropriate level of English. They end up feeling helpless. Students may pass classes; however, I suspect that instructors do not want to deal with the challenges and so turn a blind eye and let them through. Recently, there has been a problem in the nursing department with non-native English speaking students not passing board exams because they enter the college from other programs and circumvent ESL with us. They have trouble reading and answering questions on the exam. This is a significant problem because nursing programs are judged in terms of the?success of their students on these standardized exams. 
 
 
 
?
 
 
 
I think the measure of success should be based on a realistic assessment of student goals combined with a real-life discussion of the possibilities and limitations. Ideally, students would have incremental goals so that success could build. If the goals for students with low literacy levels are not carefully discussed and planned, then they will likely encounter more failure than success because their expectaions will be unrealistic. The more we have the opportunity to talk to students, the more likely it is that they can develop short-term goals that are within their reach. Unfortunately, we have no control over the myriad of complications that accrue in their every day lives. 
 
 
 
?
 
 
 
Apologies for the length.
 
 
 
?
 
 
 
 
 
Kevin Hinkle, Ph.D.
 
 
 
Assistant Professor of ESL/Adjunct Coordinator
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

Professor and Director

Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program

Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education

University of Maryland Baltimore County

1000 Hilltop Circle

Baltimore, MD 21250

tel:? 410-455-2313

fax: 410-455-8947

eml: crandall at umbc.edu







 


=


 





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From crandall at umbc.edu  Fri Feb  8 16:00:23 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (Jodi Crandall)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 16:00:23 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1206] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <139987.13848.qm@web54003.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <139987.13848.qm@web54003.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <04B634F4-14CD-45CC-ADA3-EBDE2B8C2C34@umbc.edu>

Mary Jane,

Why are you using two oral post-tests?

Jodi
On Feb 8, 2008, at 3:43 PM, Mary Jane Jerde wrote:

> Hi,
>
> The focus of class is speaking, so I don't give the students any  
> scale score reading or writing tests. Giving two oral post-tests  
> takes enough time.
>
> For class I do test the various skills.
>
> Mary Jane
>
> Jodi Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu> wrote:
> Mary Jane,
>
> Thanks for sharing your experiences.
>
> Do you also use a reading and/or writing test at any of the adult  
> ESOL levels?
>
> Jodi
> On Feb 7, 2008, at 7:18 PM, Mary Jane Jerde wrote:
>
>> As an ESL instructor who has used BEST Plus for pre-test and post- 
>> test scoring in grant funded classes, I have found the test to be  
>> an accurate gauge of student placement and growth in English.
>>
>> One advantage is that I have been able to test new students myself  
>> and have post-testing done by various other ABE or ESL  
>> instructors. They were all trained by BEST Plus staff. Before a  
>> test session the examiner and I go through a review. I have sat  
>> with the examiners for initial post-test sessions to have them  
>> gain confidence in their abilities. But I had faith that a  
>> "subjective" test could be accurate because I had used BEST for  
>> seven years in a refugee program and knew it's value for placement.
>>
>> The program does a fine job of adjusting level of difficulty based  
>> on feedback from responses.
>>
>> Is one test ever enough? No. But I have enjoyed the benefit of  
>> being able to use both CASAS and BEST Plus in smaller community  
>> programs.
>>
>> Mary Jane Jerde
>> ESL Instructor
>> Howard Community College
>>
>>
>>
>> "Cohen, Jonathan" <Jonathan.Cohen at dol.state.nj.us> wrote:
>> Good reply.
>> Jon
>>
>> Jonathan Cohen
>> Workforce Readiness & Literacy
>> NJ Dept. of Labor & Workforce Development
>>
>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
>> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Michelle Ueland
>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 4:10 PM
>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>> Subject: [Assessment 1158] Re: Observation checklist
>>
>>
>> Dear Assessment Listserv Members,
>> It is with great interest that we have been following this  
>> discussion regarding one of our assessments, BEST Plus, and its  
>> use for oral proficiency meaurement on initial placement and  
>> learner progress.
>> As other assessments have been brought into the discussion, we  
>> would like to provide the following clarification, taken verbatim  
>> from the DLIELC Website: http://www.dlielc.org/testing/ 
>> ALCPT.html : "DLIELC conducts English language proficiency testing  
>> using the Oral Proficiency Interview (OPI), a face-to-face or  
>> telephonic interview, and the English Comprehension Level (ECL)  
>> test, a multiple choice test of listening and reading  
>> comprehension. (The ECL test is provided to authorized US  
>> Government users only.) DLIELC also makes available the American  
>> Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT) for English language  
>> programs conducted outside of DLIELC. Achievement testing of  
>> American Language Course (ALC) objectives is conducted using book  
>> quizzes and performance tests, which can be obtained with the  
>> course materials."
>> According to the April 2007 edition of the Handbook for the  
>> American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT): "The most  
>> important consideration under the general topic of test security  
>> is test compromise. One of the easiest ways to compromise any test  
>> is through its inappropriate use." Given the definitions above,  
>> there are many reasons to question the appropriateness of using  
>> any of the above mentioned tests with the adult ESL population in  
>> the U.S.
>> Currently, BEST Plus is the only assessment developed specifically  
>> for use with adult English language learners in educational  
>> programs, which simultaneously measures adults' listening and  
>> speaking skills. As the BEST Plus Level Gain study shows ( http:// 
>> www.cal.org/resources/digest/levelgain.html ), more hours equals  
>> more gains, whether that be during one academic year (intensity of  
>> instruction) or over an adult's lifetime (persistence as a  
>> learner). Furthermore, this study also shows that not only is BEST  
>> Plus appropriate for initial placement, but it is also a good  
>> measure of student progress. In many ways, BEST Plus brings the  
>> knowledge and design of other oral proficiency instruments to the  
>> field of adult ESL in a highly accessible manner. Test  
>> administrations are relatively inexpensive when compared to the  
>> high cost of other oral proficiency assessments, the results  
>> accurate and immediate, and for the first time, instructors are  
>> able to confirm many of their "gut instinct" and "handshake"  
>> evaluations based on their expertise and familiarity with the  
>> adult ESL population in a standardized manner that is scored by a  
>> common rubric.
>> In regard to test administrator training, another advantage to  
>> BEST Plus is that ESL instructors are able to engage in  
>> professional development in the area of proficiency assessment.  
>> Across the country, responses to BEST Plus training are  
>> overwhelmingly positive. Our core of trainers does fantastic work  
>> to educate practitioners about the differences between being a  
>> good teacher and being a good standardized test administrator, in  
>> addition to training test administrators to administer and score  
>> BEST Plus. Furthermore, there are several opportunities for  
>> previously trained test administrators to recalibrate their  
>> scoring accuracy through the use of the Scoring Refresher Toolkit  
>> within their local programs and states. In this way, programs can  
>> confirm their inter-rater reliability, as CAL has also done during  
>> the development and design of BEST Plus. We would encourage anyone  
>> interested in finding out more about the design of BEST Plus and  
>> its high rate of inter-rater reliability to read the BEST Plus  
>> Technical Manual.
>> Finally, we hope that programs using BEST Plus continue to see the  
>> benefits of providing adults ESL learners with data regarding  
>> their oral proficiency level and progress. Particularly adults  
>> with many commitments need this type of information offered at  
>> their convenience locally by their service providers. By knowing  
>> their levels, program directors and instructors can to continue to  
>> make instructional and programatic decisions based on learner  
>> needs and to assist the learners in their own educational goal  
>> setting.
>> Michelle M. Ueland
>> Adult ESL Assessments
>> Center for Applied Linguistics
>>
>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
>> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:27 PM
>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>> Subject: [Assessment 1157] Re: Observation checklist
>> Ted and all,
>>
>> I imagine others would like to have access to the ALCPT  
>> information as well.
>>
>> I have also given the OPI, not as a certified interviewer but with  
>> a lot of training in its use.  I use it  as part of information  
>> gathering in reviewing programs overseas, to see what various  
>> levels of instruction correspond to in proficiency terms. I  
>> haven't used it with adult ESL population.  Like Mary Margaret, I  
>> have found that it takes about the same amount of time.
>>
>> Do others have the same concerns about the BEST Plus?
>>
>> Jodi
>>
>> On Feb 7, 2008, at 12:58 PM, Ted Klein wrote:
>>> Jodi,
>>>
>>> My wife, Mary Margaret, was a certified OPI interviewer at DLI.  
>>> She says that the average interview was 20 minutes. This depends  
>>> on the interviewee's level. Two people interview. The higher the  
>>> level, the longer the test. It's a really good test. The bad news  
>>> is that there is/was something like a 40% failure rate for  
>>> certification of interviewer among instructors and staff. Some of  
>>> these people were pretty sharp, but doing it is an art and a  
>>> science. There is no question the OPI is the state-of-the-art.  
>>> Even experienced interviewers get frequent tune-ups. I believe  
>>> that the OPI scoring system with the + indicating 60% of the next  
>>> higher level COULD be simplified and adapted to adult education.  
>>> However, if progress has to be shown as often as now, real  
>>> proficiency doesn't change that fast and could cost programs $  
>>> when they submit their paperwork.  IF it were done after maybe  
>>> 120 class hours, there may be significant changes.
>>>
>>> Although I got the training, I bribe other people to do the BEST  
>>> Plus on my students, including Mary Margaret! I think that it's  
>>> fine for placement, but really doesn't work for "progress" for a  
>>> number of reasons. Even when people are trained to use it  
>>> properly, there is enormous difference, even in how the  
>>> interviewers expresses themselves orally and make scores. If we  
>>> have to continue using the BEST tests, another thing that I would  
>>> like to see is small teams of really good and consistent  
>>> interviewers that do the tests on all of the students. A weak  
>>> measurement system is the Achilles Heel in Adult Education.
>>>
>>> I would prefer the use of the American Language Course Placement  
>>> Test (ALCPT). If you will give me an e-mail address that is  
>>> convenient, I will send you more information on it from my old  
>>> workshops. It's cheaper, quicker, and quite accurate. I totally  
>>> agree with you that teacher wisdom is also a good way to  
>>> determine where and when the student should move on.  
>>> Unfortunately, many managers don't trust the peasants! There are  
>>> also several good ways to place people that don't involve their  
>>> ability to read the ALCPT.
>>>
>>> I put out an Adult Education/ESL Newsletter once in a while. I  
>>> recently did an article on the OPI, which may answer more of the  
>>> questions. Here it is:
>>>
>>>
>>> Adult Education/ESL News Letter; the Federal Oral Proficiency  
>>> Interview   Jan. 8, 2008    Ted Klein
>>>
>>> For many years the Foreign Service Institute (FSI) of the United  
>>> States conducted interviews of foreign language proficiency to  
>>> measure the understanding and production of languages acquired by  
>>> their staff. This test was also used by some other federal  
>>> agencies and was adapted by some civilian language programs as a  
>>> measure of their graduates. This test expressed performance using  
>>> scores ranging from zero to five. For decades it was the best  
>>> game in town. The problem is that both the interview techniques  
>>> and scoring systems in the FSI exam were not as objective as  
>>> needed for some persons, whose jobs required very specific scores  
>>> that would be important to accomplishment of their missions.
>>>
>>> Language proficiency testing needs have always depended on the  
>>> terminal objectives of the students. In most cases, a well- 
>>> designed comprehension test is adequate and may be used for  
>>> language class placement, graduation criteria, determination of  
>>> readiness for certain jobs, training, or education, etc. During  
>>> my twenty years with the Defense Language Institute English  
>>> Language Center, all students were tested with the English  
>>> Comprehension Level (ECL) test, which was developed as an overall  
>>> measure of listening and reading skills. This test was developed  
>>> and maintained by individuals whose primary expertise was in  
>>> valid measurement procedures assisted by a team of persons who  
>>> developed multiple choice test items that were based more on  
>>> their language expertise than math. Scores were in a sense  
>>> arbitrary and didn't represent a "percentage" of anything.  
>>> However the use of an ECL test to determine readiness for  
>>> international military personnel from many countries to  
>>> participate in U.S.military training was considered a very  
>>> reliable source of measuring English-language readiness. The test  
>>> measured listening and reading skills and was "loaded" with  
>>> numerous structural, vocabulary and phonological factors. It was  
>>> multiple choice and could be administered in an hour to a large  
>>> group of students. Students went on from DLIELC for training as  
>>> pilots, staff college attendees, electronics specialists, medical  
>>> personnel, etc. and enjoyed a very low failure rate due to  
>>> language factors. Often, the comprehension scores tended to  
>>> reflect competence in spoken English, because most of these  
>>> students had acquired English in a balanced environment of  
>>> listening, speaking, reading and writing skills. The DLIELC  
>>> program itself was fairly uniform in which all American Language  
>>> Course materials were systematically provided for specific  
>>> lengths of time to teaching staff trained to use specific  
>>> methodologies. DLIELC students normally start their training in  
>>> their home countries and later go to Lackland Air Force Base in  
>>> San Antonio to finish general English when their ECL scores meet  
>>> predetermined criteria to continue to continue on to study  
>>> specialized terminology.
>>>
>>> In the 1980's a gentleman from the Central Intelligence Agency  
>>> was tasked with the production of a more objective oral language  
>>> measurement system than the FSI exam, with truly meaningful  
>>> scores and criteria. He accomplished that mission and the new  
>>> Oral Proficiency Interview (OPI) examination was designed. That's  
>>> the good news! The bad news is that it is both an art and a  
>>> science to administer. A copy of the criteria and rating factors  
>>> is below. It can be found at the DLIELC website at http:// 
>>> www.dlielc.org/testing/opi_profile.html  This OPI took care of  
>>> the majority of the problems with the older FSI exam, including a  
>>> very tight and variable interview system in which persons were  
>>> taken to their highest level of oral communication. Both  
>>> listening and speaking skills receive a score. The chart below  
>>> reflects whole number judgments with a performance-based  
>>> description of what the person being tested can do with the  
>>> language. The problem is that even after two weeks of training  
>>> persons to administer the test, there is a rather high failure  
>>> rate among tester candidates. At one time potential interviewer  
>>> failures rates were as high as 40%. Tests are administered by  
>>> pairs of persons who have to agree on a score. I have seen  
>>> persons with graduate degrees in linguistics fail to become  
>>> certified interviewers and persons with much less technical  
>>> expertise succeed and become very competent certified  
>>> interviewers. The OPI is now used in numerous programs throughout  
>>> the military, intelligence and diplomatic communities. It is NOT  
>>> used in place of other valid testing instruments. It is reserved  
>>> as a supplement for persons in which a known language production  
>>> level is required. This may include persons who will be air  
>>> traffic controllers or pilots in which verbal communication  
>>> skills can be critical.
>>>
>>> The ROTC programs at the University of Puerto Rico require OPI  
>>> scores for their cadets who become officers in the U.S. military  
>>> establishment. They also have required ECL scores, and candidates  
>>> must also be verbally competent in spoken English to get their  
>>> commissions and succeed in adequate communication for their jobs  
>>> in the military. The required score to enroll in the ROTC program  
>>> is an ECL of 75 and an OPI score of 2/1+. One year later the  
>>> required ECL score is 80 with a 2/2 OPI. To be commissioned in  
>>> the  U.S. Military the required ECL is 90 and the required OPI is  
>>> 2+/2. The first number (2+) reflects listening comprehension and  
>>> the second number reflects speaking ability. When we include the  
>>> + (plus) designation, this means that the candidate performs at  
>>> the next higher level at least 60% of the time. Therefore, if we  
>>> go from 0 (no competence) to five (educated native speaker  
>>> competence) there are eleven possible levels including the  
>>> pluses. The difficult part for most interviewers is reaching the  
>>> candidates' real levels, measuring objectively, and having each  
>>> interview so different from the last one that the possibility of  
>>> compromise through information sharing is very unlikely. An ECL  
>>> score of 90 is equivalent to a TOEFL score of 550, which is  
>>> adequate for an international student to get into many American  
>>> universities. The American Language Course Proficiency Test  
>>> (ALCPT) is made from expired ECL tests and can be made available  
>>> to civilian institutions.
>>>
>>> Why am I telling you about all of this? I was in management work  
>>> at DLIELC when the OPI system was introduced and never had reason  
>>> to become a certified interviewer. However, what I find exciting  
>>> is that the OPI Rating Factor Grid below describes the natural  
>>> sequence in which our ESL students acquire English. It is a  
>>> recapitulation of the entire never-ending process of getting a  
>>> new language. I'm guessing that average competent foreign  
>>> language majors in a good university would graduate with a 3/3  
>>> OPI score in their target languages. The numbers in the OPI can  
>>> only hint at how long and complicated a process we have to go  
>>> through to really be truly functional in a second language. For  
>>> travelling or living in another country for a while, 2/1+ is a  
>>> very reasonable goal. The chart should give ESL instructors  
>>> strong insight into both teaching objectives and what their  
>>> students are going through.
>>>
>>> There is a short general article on my website about language  
>>> testing at
>>>  http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/lang_tests.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Ted
>>>
>>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>>>   Independent Consultant in Language
>>>          and Intercultural Training
>>>               14456 Agarita Road
>>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>>>              Phone:512-266-1801
>>>               taklein at austin.rr.com
>>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> OPI  RATING  FACTOR  GRID
>>>
>>> Interactive Comprehension
>>> Structural Control  Texts Produced
>>> Lexical Control
>>> Delivery
>>> Sociolinguistic Competence
>>> Global Tasks and Functions
>>> 0+
>>> The individual understands a number of short, memorized  
>>> utterances in areas of immediate needs; frequent, long pauses and  
>>> repeated requests for repetition.
>>> No control. Can only use memorized structures.
>>> Individual words and phrases.
>>> Memorized words and phrases related to immediate survival needs.
>>> Even in memorized speech, stress, intonation, tone usually quite  
>>> faulty.
>>> Severely limited.  Any knowledge of cultural appropriateness has  
>>> a nonlinguistic source
>>> Can make statements and ask questions using memorized material.
>>> 1
>>> A native speaker must often use slowed speech, repetition,  
>>> paraphrase, or a combination of these to be understood by this  
>>> individual.  Misunderstandings are frequent, but the individual  
>>> is able to ask for help and to verify comprehension of native  
>>> speech in face-to-face interaction.
>>> Structural accuracy is random or severely limited.  Almost every  
>>> utterance has errors in basic structures.  Time concepts are  
>>> vague.  Can formulate some questions.
>>> Discrete sentences.
>>> Very limited.  Covers courtesy expressions, introductions,  
>>> identification, personal and accommodation needs, daily routine.
>>> Often speaks with great difficulty. Pronunciation, stress,  
>>> intonation generally poor.
>>> Uses greetings and courtesy expressions.  Can interact with  
>>> native speakers used to dealing with non-natives.
>>> Can create sentences; begin, maintain, and close short  
>>> conversations by asking and   answering simple questions; satisfy  
>>> simple daily needs.
>>> 2
>>> The individual can get the gist of most everyday conversations,  
>>> but has some difficulty understanding native speakers in  
>>> situations that require a specialized or sophisticated  
>>> knowledge.  (May require a native speaker to adjust to his/her  
>>> limitations in some way).
>>> Discourse is minimally cohesive.  Grammatical structures are  
>>> usually not very elaborate and not thoroughly controlled; errors  
>>> are frequent.  Simple structure and basic grammatical relations  
>>> are typically controlled.
>>> Full paragraphs.
>>> Sufficient to discuss high frequency concrete topics such as  
>>> work, family, personal   background and interests, travel,  
>>> current events.  Imprecise for less common topics.
>>> Speaks with confidence but not facility.  Can usually be  
>>> understood by those not used to dealing with non-natives.
>>> Satisfies routine social demands and limited work requirements.   
>>> Can interact with native speakers not used to dealing with non- 
>>> natives; native speakers may have to adjust to limitations.
>>> Can describe people, places, and things; narrate current, past,  
>>> and future activities in full   paragraphs; state facts; give  
>>> instructions or directions; ask and answer questions in the work  
>>> place; deal with non-routine daily situations.
>>> 3
>>> In face-to-face conversation with natives speaking the standard  
>>> dialect at a normal rate of speech, comprehension is quite  
>>> complete.  Although cultural references, proverbs, and the  
>>> implications of nuances and idiom may not be fully understood,  
>>> the individual can easily repair the conversation.
>>> Effectively combines structure and vocabulary to convey meaning.  
>>> Discourse is cohesive.  Use of structural devices is flexible and  
>>> elaborate.  Errors occur in low frequency and highly complex  
>>> structures; but structural inaccuracy rarely causes  
>>> misunderstanding.
>>> Extended discourse.
>>> Broad enough for effective formal and informal conversations on  
>>> practical, social, and professional topics.  Can convey abstract  
>>> concepts.
>>> Speaks readily and fills pauses suitably.  Pronunciation may be  
>>> obviously foreign. Flaws in stress, intonation, pitch rarely  
>>> disturb the native speaker.
>>> Uses cultural references.  When errors are made, can easily  
>>> repair the conversation.
>>> Can converse   extensively in formal and informal situations;  
>>> discuss abstract topics; support opinions; hypothesize; deal with  
>>> unfamiliar topics and situations; clarify points.
>>> 4
>>> Can understand native speakers of the standard and other major  
>>> dialects in  essentially any face-to-face interaction.  Can  
>>> understand the details and ramifications of concepts that are  
>>> culturally or conceptually different from his/her own.   
>>> Understands shifts of both subject matter and tone.
>>> Organizes discourse well, using appropriate rhetorical devices  
>>> and high level discourse structures.
>>> Speeches, lectures, debates,
>>> conference discussions.
>>> Precise for representational purposes within personal and  
>>> professional experience.  Can elaborate concepts freely; choose  
>>> appropriate words to convey nuances of meaning.
>>> Speaks effortlessly and smoothly, but would seldom be perceived  
>>> as a native speaker.
>>> Uses and understands details and ramifications of target cultural  
>>> references. Can set   and shift the tone of exchanges with a  
>>> variety of native speakers.
>>> Can tailor language to fit the audience; counsel; persuade;  
>>> represent an official point of view; negotiate; advocate a  
>>> position at length; interpret informally.
>>> 5
>>> (No gaps in comprehension, including all details and nuances.)
>>> Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated  
>>> native speaker.
>>> All texts controlled   by a highly articulate, well-educated  
>>> native speaker.
>>> Breadth of vocabulary and idiom equivalent to that of a highly  
>>> articulate, well-educated native speaker.
>>> Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated  
>>> native speaker of a standard dialect.
>>> Speech reflects the cultural standards of country where language  
>>> is natively spoken.
>>> Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated  
>>> native speaker.
>>> DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03 (Reverse)
>>> OPI  PERFORMANCE  PROFILE
>>> RATERS
>>> DATE
>>> Check One:
>>> C
>>> S
>>>
>>> ENTRY
>>> Mid
>>> Exit
>>>
>>>
>>> SCN/TEL OPI CODE
>>> RANK/NAME
>>> CY
>>> GRAD DATE
>>> SET CODE
>>> TEACHER/ROOM NO.
>>> VERIFICATION
>>> Interactive Comprehension
>>>
>>> Structural Control / Texts Produced
>>>
>>> Lexical Control
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Delivery
>>> Sociolinguistic Competence
>>> Global Tasks and Functions
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
>>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:45 AM
>>> Subject: [Assessment 1149] Re: Observation checklist
>>>
>>> Ted,
>>>
>>> Did you use an oral proficiency interview at the Defense Language
>>> Institute?  If so, how log did it take to administer to each  
>>> student?  I
>>> think time is a real barrier to most adult ESL/ESOL programs.   
>>> Thus, they
>>> use tests that can be administered to students as a group and easily
>>> evaluated.
>>>
>>> For some college programs for international students, a whole  
>>> range of
>>> tests are used for placement, including a writing sample, a  
>>> reading test,
>>> and an oral interview.  Clearly that's more possible with smaller  
>>> numbers
>>> of students who are also paying for the classes.
>>>
>>> What do you think is needed in the way of tests?  In Passing the  
>>> Torch,
>>> Forrest and I point to assessment as a major issue facing all the  
>>> colleges
>>> we studied.  We recommend the development of a test of all four  
>>> skills
>>> that, if possible, could be administered and scored in a  
>>> reasonable amount
>>> of time.
>>>
>>> Have you tried the BEST Plus test?  What has been your experience  
>>> with
>>> that test?
>>>
>>> I agree that for placement at literacy levels, a simple test  
>>> developed by
>>> a program might be sufficient.
>>>
>>> I also think that for progress through the levels, student  
>>> achievement in
>>> the previous class, as judged by the instructor ("professional  
>>> wisdom"),
>>> is still the best determiner of whether a student is ready to go  
>>> to the
>>> next level.
>>>
>>> Jodi
>>>
>>>
>>> > Jodi,
>>> >
>>> > Same here! As long as the BEST Test is used to show gains, I'm  
>>> afraid that
>>> > there isn't much chance that REAL gains could be charted and  
>>> compared. It
>>> > is used too often to measure progress and is not as good for  
>>> that purpose
>>> > as one would hope. Really valid proficiency tests are the only  
>>> way to
>>> > prove the point. Achievement tests don't tell much in terms of  
>>> overall
>>> > progress. I would also guess that it would take a minimum of  
>>> 120 hours of
>>> > solid training to have a measureable level with any test that  
>>> one could
>>> > play numbers with. Other factors including attendance, etc.  
>>> would have to
>>> > be factored in. Adults have families and jobs in the way of total
>>> > dedication to attendance. Also, one would have to have a test  
>>> in which
>>> > human judgment would play a small role. The BEST is fine for  
>>> its original
>>> > purpose, which was to place persons with others at their same  
>>> levels of
>>> > communication. Good measurement is the only way to prove  
>>> anything. I often
>>> > rely on plain old gut instincts to figure how things are really  
>>> going. I
>>> > know that's not very scientific.
>>> >
>>> > Cheers,  Ted
>>> > www.tedklein-ESL.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
>>> > To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:05 PM
>>> > Subject: [Assessment 1138] Re: Observation checklist
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Hi, Ted.  Glad to make contact again.
>>> >
>>> > I definitely agree that smaller classes are more likely to  
>>> bring learner
>>> > gains, especially in language, since students will have more  
>>> opportunity
>>> > to speak when there are fewer students.  I didn't know about  
>>> the DLI
>>> > policy, but it is a good one.  The problem with adult ESL  
>>> classes, I fear,
>>> > is that there is such limited money available that programs  
>>> would find it
>>> > difficult to keep class size to these numbers.
>>> >
>>> > Has anyone tried to reduce class size and chart the learning  
>>> gains?  If
>>> > so, please share with us all.  It might be that this would be a  
>>> good
>>> > investment.  If students in smaller classes make faster gains,  
>>> then there
>>> > would be more spaces available as these students transitioned  
>>> to other
>>> > classes or the workforce.
>>> >
>>> > Jodi
>>> >
>>> > Hi Jodi,
>>> >>
>>> >> Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times  
>>> in the
>>> >> past,
>>> >> I think at least once when you visited the Defense Language  
>>> Institute
>>> >> English Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I
>>> >> mention
>>> >> DLI is that it represents a language program with little  
>>> leeway to fail.
>>> >> I
>>> >> spent 20 years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is  
>>> to train
>>> >> allied and friendly military personnel worldwide in general and
>>> >> specialized English. Most students start ESL in their home  
>>> countries
>>> >> with
>>> >> DLIELC personnel advising, and in some cases teaching, in  
>>> these overseas
>>> >> military language centers. It may still be the largest  
>>> language program
>>> >> in
>>> >> the world. Students after reaching certain levels go to  
>>> Lackland Air
>>> >> Force
>>> >> Base in San Antonio, complete their general English, usually  
>>> go through
>>> >> specialized terminology and then on to whatever training their  
>>> country
>>> >> needs with the U.S. military. Students have run the full gamut  
>>> from
>>> >> recruits and NCO's up to generals and admirals. This is a very  
>>> tightly
>>> >> organized "well-packaged" language program with predictable  
>>> training
>>> >> times
>>> >> and results.
>>> >>
>>> >> Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb  
>>> while I was at
>>> >> at DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum.  
>>> This was
>>> >> rarely broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters'  
>>> bean
>>> >> counter would calculate that if a mere two or three students  
>>> could be
>>> >> added to a class, voila, look at the money we would save! This  
>>> money
>>> >> came
>>> >> both from foreign governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue  
>>> and then
>>> >> try
>>> >> it, I believe several times over the years. However, in an  
>>> organization
>>> >> that has a very effective testing system; both achievement and
>>> >> proficiency, it was soon noticed that the scores were going  
>>> down, just
>>> >> enough so that they could prove that no money was being saved  
>>> on teacher
>>> >> salaries and other expenses. I spent three years with the  
>>> Royal Thai
>>> >> Navy
>>> >> for DLI as language training advisor and remember having to  
>>> twist arms
>>> >> with the RTN Navy Education Department with the same problem.  
>>> They
>>> >> wanted
>>> >> 15 in a class.
>>> >>
>>> >> Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during  
>>> my last
>>> >> eight years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes  
>>> have
>>> >> consistently been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an
>>> >> organization is stuck with a low budget, make the hours of  
>>> training per
>>> >> week lower, but keep the class sizes within 10 or so students.  
>>> Fewer
>>> >> hours
>>> >> of really effective training are certainly better than large  
>>> classes
>>> >> where
>>> >> the student attention level and collegiality are reduced. I  
>>> remember
>>> >> Mary
>>> >> Finocchiaro saying years ago that she didn't care how many  
>>> students were
>>> >> in her classroom, she would teach them! Unfortunately, most of  
>>> us just
>>> >> aren't THAT dynamic.
>>> >>
>>> >> Cheers,  Ted
>>> >> www.tedklein-ESL.com
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
>>> >> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM
>>> >> Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Usha,
>>> >>
>>> >> I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
>>> >> experience that with more than 10 students, learning  
>>> decreases?  If so,
>>> >> how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be
>>> >> interested
>>> >> in ways to decrease class size.
>>> >>
>>> >> It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
>>> >> constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more
>>> >> important
>>> >> to involve them in activities in which all get to participate,  
>>> which
>>> >> means
>>> >> less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even  
>>> small classes
>>> >> need that.
>>> >>
>>> >> What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?
>>> >>
>>> >> You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop  
>>> out of
>>> >> classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any  
>>> of you
>>> >> keep
>>> >> records of your students that would identify those who do  
>>> return?  Do
>>> >> you
>>> >> have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning  
>>> English
>>> >> outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know  
>>> of any
>>> >> research about adult English Language Learners in this area,  
>>> but there
>>> >> is
>>> >> an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State
>>> >> University
>>> >> following adult literacy level students for several years.   
>>> They have
>>> >> identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside  
>>> of the
>>> >> classroom and also that some of these learners come back to  
>>> classes
>>> >> after
>>> >> being out of them for some time.
>>> >>
>>> >> Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of  
>>> you been
>>> >> able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of  
>>> these
>>> >> services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have  
>>> been most
>>> >> effective? If you teach in a community college, have your  
>>> students had
>>> >> access to the various support services provided to other  
>>> students?
>>> >>
>>> >> Several of you have talked about the differences in progress  
>>> made by
>>> >> students with more advanced education and those who are at  
>>> literacy
>>> >> level.
>>> >>  Because literacy level students take longer in making  
>>> progress, most
>>> >> programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and
>>> >> literate
>>> >> beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and  
>>> literacy
>>> >> will
>>> >> need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to  
>>> talk about
>>> >> what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about
>>> >> persistence
>>> >> of literacy level students and their learning gains.
>>> >>
>>> >> Students with advanced education in their own language may be  
>>> able to
>>> >> have
>>> >> a condensed program since they are already experienced as  
>>> students and
>>> >> often have high motivation to get through English so that they  
>>> can take
>>> >> courses related to their previous or future career.  City  
>>> College of San
>>> >> Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters  
>>> worth of
>>> >> work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer  
>>> something along
>>> >> these lines?
>>> >>
>>> >> Jodi
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked  
>>> the tool
>>> >>> that
>>> >>> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope  
>>> that it
>>> >>> is
>>> >>> not
>>> >>> something that has already been asked and answered.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most  
>>> of our ESL
>>> >>> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal  
>>> constraints
>>> >>> and
>>> >>> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a  
>>> positive
>>> >>> to
>>> >>> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we  
>>> expect to see
>>> >>> more
>>> >>> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain  
>>> the numbers.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy  
>>> programs
>>> >>> because of many socio-economic factors.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing  
>>> market (in
>>> >>> past
>>> >>> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to  
>>> stay in
>>> >>> one
>>> >>> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen  
>>> more in
>>> >>> people
>>> >>> who do not have high levels of education from their native  
>>> country).
>>> >>>
>>> >>> People with a certain level of education (college degrees  
>>> from their
>>> >>> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some  
>>> kind of
>>> >>> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs,  
>>> go in and
>>> >>> out
>>> >>> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of  
>>> various
>>> >>> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and  
>>> have no time
>>> >>> to
>>> >>> practice.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in  
>>> educational
>>> >>> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
>>> >>> availability
>>> >>> of  community resources.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Usha Narayanan
>>> >>> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
>>> >>> California
>>> >>> 408-522-2737
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> Marie,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and  
>>> out of the
>>> >>>> U.S.A.
>>> >>>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc.  
>>> in ESL.
>>> >>>> It
>>> >>>> is
>>> >>>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say  
>>> that I'm
>>> >>>> back
>>> >>>> in the
>>> >>>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with  
>>> the Defense
>>> >>>> Language
>>> >>>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching  
>>> immigrants part
>>> >>>> time for
>>> >>>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at  
>>> Austin
>>> >>>> Community
>>> >>>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of  
>>> what language
>>> >>>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to  
>>> work at a
>>> >>>> higher
>>> >>>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope  
>>> that I
>>> >>>> apply
>>> >>>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the  
>>> "easy
>>> >>>> traps."
>>> >>>> I
>>> >>>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
>>> >>>> interested and
>>> >>>> it is published on my website at
>>> >>>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel  
>>> absolutely free
>>> >>>> to use
>>> >>>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank  
>>> you very
>>> >>>> much for
>>> >>>> the input. Questions are welcome.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Cheers,   Ted
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>>> >>>>   Independent Consultant in Language
>>> >>>>          and Intercultural Training
>>> >>>>               14456 Agarita Road
>>> >>>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>>> >>>>              Phone:512-266-1801
>>> >>>>             taklein at austin.rr.com  
>>> <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
>>> >>>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Hi  Ted,
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it
>>> >>>>> yourself?
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you  
>>> deliberately try
>>> >>>>> to
>>> >>>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or  
>>> do others
>>> >>>>> you
>>> >>>>> work with?
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the
>>> >>>>> students
>>> >>>>> advance?
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Marie
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> >>>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>> >>>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
>>> >>>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
>>> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
>>> >>>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>>> >>>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Marie,
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Ted
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
>>> >>>>>>  NO
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>    supportive personality?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>    other and the instructor?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>     target language  proficiency?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>     than push them?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>     exaggerated speech?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>     results?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> ---- Original Message -----
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Hello  everyone,
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on   
>>> regarding
>>> >>>>>>> your
>>> >>>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students   
>>> advance??  I was
>>> >>>>>>> very
>>> >>>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types  
>>> of issues
>>> >>>>>>> that
>>> >>>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a  
>>> lack of
>>> >>>>>>> intensity
>>> >>>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
>>> >>>>>>> opportunities
>>> >>>>>>> for  professional development.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel  
>>> inhibit the ESL
>>> >>>>>>> student
>>> >>>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Thanks!
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>> >>>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> -------------------------------
>>> >>>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>> >>>>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>> >>>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> >>>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings,  
>>> please go to
>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> >>>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> -------------------------------
>>> >>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>> >>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>> >>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings,  
>>> please go to
>>> >>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> >>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> -------------------------------
>>> >>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>> >>>> Assessment mailing list
>>> >>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> >>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please  
>>> go to
>>> >>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> >>>> Email delivered to usha_narayanan at fuhsd.org
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Scanned by Barracuda Spam Firewall
>>> >>> -------------------------------
>>> >>> National Institute for Literacy
>>> >>> Assessment mailing list
>>> >>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> >>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please  
>>> go to
>>> >>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> >>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>>> >> Professor, Education Department
>>> >> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
>>> >> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in
>>> >> ESOL/Bilingual
>>> >> Education
>>> >> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
>>> >> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
>>> >> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
>>> >> email: crandall at umbc.edu
>>> >> www.umbc.edu/llc/
>>> >> www.umbc.edu/esol/
>>> >> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> -------------------------------
>>> >> National Institute for Literacy
>>> >> Assessment mailing list
>>> >> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>> >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> >> Email delivered to  
>>> taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
>>> >> National Institute for Literacy
>>> >> Assessment mailing list
>>> >> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>> >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> >> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>>> > Professor, Education Department
>>> > Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
>>> > Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/ 
>>> Bilingual
>>> > Education
>>> > University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
>>> > 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
>>> > ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
>>> > email: crandall at umbc.edu
>>> > www.umbc.edu/llc/
>>> > www.umbc.edu/esol/
>>> > www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -------------------------------
>>> > National Institute for Literacy
>>> > Assessment mailing list
>>> > Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> > Email delivered to  
>>> taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
>>> > National Institute for Literacy
>>> > Assessment mailing list
>>> > Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> > Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>>> Professor, Education Department
>>> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
>>> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/ 
>>> Bilingual
>>> Education
>>> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
>>> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
>>> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
>>> email: crandall at umbc.edu
>>> www.umbc.edu/llc/
>>> www.umbc.edu/esol/
>>> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>> Assessment mailing list
>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com
>>> -------------------------------
>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>> Assessment mailing list
>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>
>> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>> Professor and Director
>> Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
>> Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual  
>> Education
>> University of Maryland Baltimore County
>> 1000 Hilltop Circle
>> Baltimore, MD 21250
>> tel:  410-455-2313
>> fax: 410-455-8947
>> eml: crandall at umbc.edu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to mjjerdems at yahoo.com
>>
>>
>> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo!  
>> Search.
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>
> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Professor and Director
> Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
> Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual  
> Education
> University of Maryland Baltimore County
> 1000 Hilltop Circle
> Baltimore, MD 21250
> tel:  410-455-2313
> fax: 410-455-8947
> eml: crandall at umbc.edu
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to mjjerdems at yahoo.com
>
>
> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo!  
> Search.
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor and Director
Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
University of Maryland Baltimore County
1000 Hilltop Circle
Baltimore, MD 21250
tel:  410-455-2313
fax: 410-455-8947
eml: crandall at umbc.edu




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From mueland at cal.org  Fri Feb  8 16:49:16 2008
From: mueland at cal.org (Michelle Ueland)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 16:49:16 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1211] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <80D4960C-669A-4203-91B3-DE3C34200D93@umbc.edu>
References: <C3CE4BCC.8F31%usha_narayanan@fuhsd.org><52294.130.85.83.224.1202268183.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><001e01c868c8$49636de0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75><49507.130.85.83.224.1202328350.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><007e01c86927$0ca72220$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75><50639.138.88.30.77.1202391909.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><001801c869b3$01219660$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75><9A537A75-618C-402D-8F6E-EDEA8C0DF840@umbc.edu><7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F02F33CB7@MAIL.cal.local><63733377F5D386419FE59FCB038725EF0B544FEE@EXCHANGE.njdol.ad.dol>
	<80D4960C-669A-4203-91B3-DE3C34200D93@umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F02F33CDE@MAIL.cal.local>

Dear Listserv Members,

 

Greetings!

 

I'm so glad that there are so many people and programs interested in the Center for Applied Linguistics and our adult ESL assessments.

 

Regarding the nomenclature, the original BEST tests (oral interview and literacy skills sections) have changed since their original development in the 1980's yet many of us still continue to refer to them affectionately as the BEST tests. The BEST oral interview has been replaced by BEST Plus which is much more comprehensive and covers SPL levels 0 - 10 and NRS levels 1 - 6.  Furthermore, BEST literacy skills section has been updated and renamed BEST Literacy. It is currently available in three forms (B, C, and D) and there is a new Test Manual to accompany the updated tests. Although we are cognizant of the need for a higher level reading and writing test, currently there are initiatives that we are aware of for funding this type of test development within the Department of Education Office of Vocational and Adult Education. 

 

I would encourage anyone on this discussion list who is interested in assessment issues to begin by reviewing their state assessment policy to determine which assessments - of those approved for use by NRS at federally and state-funded adult ESL programs - are also on their state's list. If BEST Plus, BEST Literacy, BEST oral or literacy skills sections are listed, or if anyone would like more information about CAL's assessments, check out CAL's website at: www.cal.org <http://www.cal.org/>  or the BEST Plus website at:  www.cal.org/bestplus/ <http://www.cal.org/bestplus/>  

 

In many states there have been and continue to be numerous training opportunities. For example, in New Jersey the New Jersey Department of Labor regularly schedules BEST Plus training in different areas of the state. If anyone would like further information about the updates to BEST Literacy or about the two forms of BEST Plus (computer adaptive and print-based), the adult ESL assessments team at CAL is happy to provide information and continue to clarify any questions you may have off line. Please contact us directly at: 1-866-845-2378 (toll free) or at aea at cal.org <mailto:aea at cal.org>  

 

 

Sincerely,

 

Michelle Ueland

Adult ESL Assessments

Center for Applied Linguistics


________________________________

	From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
	Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 8:25 PM
	To: The Assessment Discussion List
	Subject: [Assessment 1166] Re: Observation checklist
	
	
	Michelle and others, 

	Thanks so much.  We will all benefit from the clear explanation of the BEST Plus.

	It's good to hear from some of you who are using the test as well.

	Michelle, can you tell us if there are any plans for developing a comparable reading and writing test for adult ESL learners?

	Jodi 


	On Feb 7, 2008, at 4:25 PM, Cohen, Jonathan wrote:


		Good reply.

		Jon

		
		 

		Jonathan Cohen

		Workforce Readiness & Literacy

		NJ Dept. of Labor & Workforce Development 

		
		 
		
________________________________


		From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Michelle Ueland
		Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 4:10 PM
		To: The Assessment Discussion List
		Subject: [Assessment 1158] Re: Observation checklist

		
		 
		
		 

		Dear Assessment Listserv Members,

		It is with great interest that we have been following this discussion regarding one of our assessments, BEST Plus, and its use for oral proficiency meaurement on initial placement and learner progress. 

		As other assessments have been brought into the discussion, we would like to provide the following clarification, taken verbatim from the DLIELC Website: http://www.dlielc.org/testing/ALCPT.html <http://www.dlielc.org/testing/ALCPT.html>  : "DLIELC conducts English language proficiency testing using the Oral Proficiency Interview (OPI) <outbind://86/opi_test.html> , a face-to-face or telephonic interview, and the English Comprehension Level (ECL) <outbind://86/ecl_test.html> test, a multiple choice test of listening and reading comprehension. (The ECL test is provided to authorized US Government users only.) DLIELC also makes available the American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT) <outbind://86/ALCPT.html>  for English language programs conducted outside of DLIELC. Achievement testing of American Language Course (ALC) objectives is conducted using book quizzes and performance tests, which can be obtained with the course materials." 

		According to the April 2007 edition of the Handbook for the American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT): "The most important consideration under the general topic of test security is test compromise. One of the easiest ways to compromise any test is through its inappropriate use." Given the definitions above, there are many reasons to question the appropriateness of using any of the above mentioned tests with the adult ESL population in the U.S.

		Currently, BEST Plus is the only assessment developed specifically for use with adult English language learners in educational programs, which simultaneously measures adults' listening and speaking skills. As the BEST Plus Level Gain study shows ( http://www.cal.org/resources/digest/levelgain.html ), more hours equals more gains, whether that be during one academic year (intensity of instruction) or over an adult's lifetime (persistence as a learner). Furthermore, this study also shows that not only is BEST Plus appropriate for initial placement, but it is also a good measure of student progress. In many ways, BEST Plus brings the knowledge and design of other oral proficiency instruments to the field of adult ESL in a highly accessible manner. Test administrations are relatively inexpensive when compared to the high cost of other oral proficiency assessments, the results accurate and immediate, and for the first time, instructors are able to confirm many of their "gut instinct" and "handshake" evaluations based on their expertise and familiarity with the adult ESL population in a standardized manner that is scored by a common rubric.

		In regard to test administrator training, another advantage to BEST Plus is that ESL instructors are able to engage in professional development in the area of proficiency assessment. Across the country, responses to BEST Plus training are overwhelmingly positive. Our core of trainers does fantastic work to educate practitioners about the differences between being a good teacher and being a good standardized test administrator, in addition to training test administrators to administer and score BEST Plus. Furthermore, there are several opportunities for previously trained test administrators to recalibrate their scoring accuracy through the use of the Scoring Refresher Toolkit within their local programs and states. In this way, programs can confirm their inter-rater reliability, as CAL has also done during the development and design of BEST Plus. We would encourage anyone interested in finding out more about the design of BEST Plus and its high rate of inter-rater reliability to read the BEST Plus Technical Manual.

		Finally, we hope that programs using BEST Plus continue to see the benefits of providing adults ESL learners with data regarding their oral proficiency level and progress. Particularly adults with many commitments need this type of information offered at their convenience locally by their service providers. By knowing their levels, program directors and instructors can to continue to make instructional and programatic decisions based on learner needs and to assist the learners in their own educational goal setting.

		Michelle M. Ueland

		Adult ESL Assessments

		Center for Applied Linguistics

			
			 
			
________________________________


			From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
			Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:27 PM
			To: The Assessment Discussion List
			Subject: [Assessment 1157] Re: Observation checklist

			Ted and all, 

			
			 

			I imagine others would like to have access to the ALCPT information as well.

			
			 

			I have also given the OPI, not as a certified interviewer but with a lot of training in its use.  I use it  as part of information gathering in reviewing programs overseas, to see what various levels of instruction correspond to in proficiency terms. I haven't used it with adult ESL population.  Like Mary Margaret, I have found that it takes about the same amount of time.  

			
			 

			Do others have the same concerns about the BEST Plus?

			
			 

			Jodi

			
			 

			On Feb 7, 2008, at 12:58 PM, Ted Klein wrote:

				Jodi,

				
				 

				My wife, Mary Margaret, was a certified OPI interviewer at DLI. She says that the average interview was 20 minutes. This depends on the interviewee's level. Two people interview. The higher the level, the longer the test. It's a really good test. The bad news is that there is/was something like a 40% failure rate for certification of interviewer among instructors and staff. Some of these people were pretty sharp, but doing it is an art and a science. There is no question the OPI is the state-of-the-art. Even experienced interviewers get frequent tune-ups. I believe that the OPI scoring system with the + indicating 60% of the next higher level COULD be simplified and adapted to adult education. However, if progress has to be shown as often as now, real proficiency doesn't change that fast and could cost programs $ when they submit their paperwork.  IF it were done after maybe 120 class hours, there may be significant changes.

				
				 

				Although I got the training, I bribe other people to do the BEST Plus on my students, including Mary Margaret! I think that it's fine for placement, but really doesn't work for "progress" for a number of reasons. Even when people are trained to use it properly, there is enormous difference, even in how the interviewers expresses themselves orally and make scores. If we have to continue using the BEST tests, another thing that I would like to see is small teams of really good and consistent interviewers that do the tests on all of the students. A weak measurement system is the Achilles Heel in Adult Education.

				
				 

				I would prefer the use of the American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT). If you will give me an e-mail address that is convenient, I will send you more information on it from my old workshops. It's cheaper, quicker, and quite accurate. I totally agree with you that teacher wisdom is also a good way to determine where and when the student should move on. Unfortunately, many managers don't trust the peasants! There are also several good ways to place people that don't involve their ability to read the ALCPT.

				
				 

				I put out an Adult Education/ESL Newsletter once in a while. I recently did an article on the OPI, which may answer more of the questions. Here it is:

				
				 
				
				 

				Adult Education/ESL News Letter; the Federal Oral Proficiency Interview   Jan. 8, 2008    Ted Klein

				
				 

				For many years the Foreign Service Institute (FSI) of the United States conducted interviews of foreign language proficiency to measure the understanding and production of languages acquired by their staff. This test was also used by some other federal agencies and was adapted by some civilian language programs as a measure of their graduates. This test expressed performance using scores ranging from zero to five. For decades it was the best game in town. The problem is that both the interview techniques and scoring systems in the FSI exam were not as objective as needed for some persons, whose jobs required very specific scores that would be important to accomplishment of their missions.

				
				 

				Language proficiency testing needs have always depended on the terminal objectives of the students. In most cases, a well-designed comprehension test is adequate and may be used for language class placement, graduation criteria, determination of readiness for certain jobs, training, or education, etc. During my twenty years with the Defense Language Institute English Language Center, all students were tested with the English Comprehension Level (ECL) test, which was developed as an overall measure of listening and reading skills. This test was developed and maintained by individuals whose primary expertise was in valid measurement procedures assisted by a team of persons who developed multiple choice test items that were based more on their language expertise than math. Scores were in a sense arbitrary and didn't represent a "percentage" of anything. However the use of an ECL test to determine readiness for international military personnel from many countries to participate in U.S.military training was considered a very reliable source of measuring English-language readiness. The test measured listening and reading skills and was "loaded" with numerous structural, vocabulary and phonological factors. It was multiple choice and could be administered in an hour to a large group of students. Students went on from DLIELC for training as pilots, staff college attendees, electronics specialists, medical personnel, etc. and enjoyed a very low failure rate due to language factors. Often, the comprehension scores tended to reflect competence in spoken English, because most of these students had acquired English in a balanced environment of listening, speaking, reading and writing skills. The DLIELC program itself was fairly uniform in which all American Language Course materials were systematically provided for specific lengths of time to teaching staff trained to use specific methodologies. DLIELC students normally start their training in their home countries and later go to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio to finish general English when their ECL scores meet predetermined criteria to continue to continue on to study specialized terminology.

				
				 

				In the 1980's a gentleman from the Central Intelligence Agency was tasked with the production of a more objective oral language measurement system than the FSI exam, with truly meaningful scores and criteria. He accomplished that mission and the new Oral Proficiency Interview (OPI) examination was designed. That's the good news! The bad news is that it is both an art and a science to administer. A copy of the criteria and rating factors is below. It can be found at the DLIELC website at http://www.dlielc.org/testing/opi_profile.html <http://www.dlielc.org/testing/opi_profile.html>   This OPI took care of the majority of the problems with the older FSI exam, including a very tight and variable interview system in which persons were taken to their highest level of oral communication. Both listening and speaking skills receive a score. The chart below reflects whole number judgments with a performance-based description of what the person being tested can do with the language. The problem is that even after two weeks of training persons to administer the test, there is a rather high failure rate among tester candidates. At one time potential interviewer failures rates were as high as 40%. Tests are administered by pairs of persons who have to agree on a score. I have seen persons with graduate degrees in linguistics fail to become certified interviewers and persons with much less technical expertise succeed and become very competent certified interviewers. The OPI is now used in numerous programs throughout the military, intelligence and diplomatic communities. It is NOT used in place of other valid testing instruments. It is reserved as a supplement for persons in which a known language production level is required. This may include persons who will be air traffic controllers or pilots in which verbal communication skills can be critical.

				
				 

				The ROTC programs at the University of Puerto Rico require OPI scores for their cadets who become officers in the U.S. military establishment. They also have required ECL scores, and candidates must also be verbally competent in spoken English to get their commissions and succeed in adequate communication for their jobs in the military. The required score to enroll in the ROTC program is an ECL of 75 and an OPI score of 2/1+. One year later the required ECL score is 80 with a 2/2 OPI. To be commissioned in the  U.S. Military the required ECL is 90 and the required OPI is 2+/2. The first number (2+) reflects listening comprehension and the second number reflects speaking ability. When we include the + (plus) designation, this means that the candidate performs at the next higher level at least 60% of the time. Therefore, if we go from 0 (no competence) to five (educated native speaker competence) there are eleven possible levels including the pluses. The difficult part for most interviewers is reaching the candidates' real levels, measuring objectively, and having each interview so different from the last one that the possibility of compromise through information sharing is very unlikely. An ECL score of 90 is equivalent to a TOEFL score of 550, which is adequate for an international student to get into many American universities. The American Language Course Proficiency Test (ALCPT) is made from expired ECL tests and can be made available to civilian institutions.

				
				 

				Why am I telling you about all of this? I was in management work at DLIELC when the OPI system was introduced and never had reason to become a certified interviewer. However, what I find exciting is that the OPI Rating Factor Grid below describes the natural sequence in which our ESL students acquire English. It is a recapitulation of the entire never-ending process of getting a new language. I'm guessing that average competent foreign language majors in a good university would graduate with a 3/3 OPI score in their target languages. The numbers in the OPI can only hint at how long and complicated a process we have to go through to really be truly functional in a second language. For travelling or living in another country for a while, 2/1+ is a very reasonable goal. The chart should give ESL instructors strong insight into both teaching objectives and what their students are going through.  

				
				 

				There is a short general article on my website about language testing at

				 http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/lang_tests.html <http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/lang_tests.html>   

				
				 
				
				 

				Ted

				 

				       Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
				  Independent Consultant in Language
				         and Intercultural Training
				              14456 Agarita Road
				          Austin, Texas 78734-2009
				             Phone:512-266-1801
				              taklein at austin.rr.com        
				            www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-esl.com/>      
				             

				 

				 

				 

				 

				OPI  RATING  FACTOR  GRID

Interactive Comprehension


Structural Control  Texts Produced

Lexical Control

Delivery

Sociolinguistic Competence

Global Tasks and Functions

0+

The individual understands a number of short, memorized utterances in areas of immediate needs; frequent, long pauses and repeated requests for repetition.  

No control. Can only use memorized structures. 

Individual words and phrases.

Memorized words and phrases related to immediate survival needs.

Even in memorized speech, stress, intonation, tone usually quite faulty.

Severely limited.  Any knowledge of cultural appropriateness has a nonlinguistic source

Can make statements and ask questions using memorized material.

1

A native speaker must often use slowed speech, repetition, paraphrase, or a combination of these to be understood by this individual.  Misunderstandings are frequent, but the individual is able to ask for help and to verify comprehension of native speech in face-to-face interaction. 

Structural accuracy is random or severely limited.  Almost every utterance has errors in basic structures.  Time concepts are vague.  Can formulate some questions.  

Discrete sentences.

Very limited.  Covers courtesy expressions, introductions, identification, personal and accommodation needs, daily routine.

Often speaks with great difficulty. Pronunciation, stress, intonation generally poor.

Uses greetings and courtesy expressions.  Can interact with native speakers used to dealing with non-natives.

Can create sentences; begin, maintain, and close short conversations by asking and answering simple questions; satisfy simple daily needs.

2

The individual can get the gist of most everyday conversations, but has some difficulty understanding native speakers in situations that require a specialized or sophisticated knowledge.  (May require a native speaker to adjust to his/her limitations in some way).  

Discourse is minimally cohesive.  Grammatical structures are usually not very elaborate and not thoroughly controlled; errors are frequent.  Simple structure and basic grammatical relations are typically controlled.  

Full paragraphs.

Sufficient to discuss high frequency concrete topics such as work, family, personal background and interests, travel, current events.  Imprecise for less common topics.

Speaks with confidence but not facility.  Can usually be understood by those not used to dealing with non-natives.

Satisfies routine social demands and limited work requirements.  Can interact with native speakers not used to dealing with non-natives; native speakers may have to adjust to limitations.

Can describe people, places, and things; narrate current, past, and future activities in full paragraphs; state facts; give instructions or directions; ask and answer questions in the work place; deal with non-routine daily situations.

3

In face-to-face conversation with natives speaking the standard dialect at a normal rate of speech, comprehension is quite complete.  Although cultural references, proverbs, and the implications of nuances and idiom may not be fully understood, the individual can easily repair the conversation.  

Effectively combines structure and vocabulary to convey meaning. Discourse is cohesive.  Use of structural devices is flexible and elaborate.  Errors occur in low frequency and highly complex structures; but structural inaccuracy rarely causes misunderstanding.  

Extended discourse.

Broad enough for effective formal and informal conversations on practical, social, and professional topics.  Can convey abstract concepts.

Speaks readily and fills pauses suitably.  Pronunciation may be obviously foreign. Flaws in stress, intonation, pitch rarely disturb the native speaker.

Uses cultural references.  When errors are made, can easily repair the conversation.

Can converse extensively in formal and informal situations; discuss abstract topics; support opinions; hypothesize; deal with unfamiliar topics and situations; clarify points.  

4

Can understand native speakers of the standard and other major dialects in  essentially any face-to-face interaction.  Can understand the details and ramifications of concepts that are culturally or conceptually different from his/her own.  Understands shifts of both subject matter and tone.  

Organizes discourse well, using appropriate rhetorical devices and high level discourse structures. 

Speeches, lectures, debates, 

conference discussions.

Precise for representational purposes within personal and professional experience.  Can elaborate concepts freely; choose appropriate words to convey nuances of meaning.

Speaks effortlessly and smoothly, but would seldom be perceived as a native speaker.

Uses and understands details and ramifications of target cultural references. Can set and shift the tone of exchanges with a variety of native speakers.

Can tailor language to fit the audience; counsel; persuade; represent an official point of view; negotiate; advocate a position at length; interpret informally.

5

(No gaps in comprehension, including all details and nuances.)

Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.  

All texts controlled by a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.

Breadth of vocabulary and idiom equivalent to that of a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.

Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker of a standard dialect.

Speech reflects the cultural standards of country where language is natively spoken.

Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.

				DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03 (Reverse)


OPI  PERFORMANCE  PROFILE


RATERS

DATE

Check One:

C

S


 

ENTRY

Mid


Exit


 

 

SCN/TEL OPI CODE

RANK/NAME

CY

GRAD DATE

SET CODE

TEACHER/ROOM NO.

VERIFICATION


Interactive Comprehension


Structural Control / Texts Produced

Lexical Control


 

 
Delivery

Sociolinguistic Competence

Global Tasks and Functions


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

				    DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03

				
				 
				
				 
				
				 
				                                                
				

				 ----- Original Message ----- 

				From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>

				To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>

				Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:45 AM

				Subject: [Assessment 1149] Re: Observation checklist

				
				 

				Ted,
				
				Did you use an oral proficiency interview at the Defense Language
				Institute?  If so, how log did it take to administer to each student?  I
				think time is a real barrier to most adult ESL/ESOL programs.  Thus, they
				use tests that can be administered to students as a group and easily
				evaluated.
				
				For some college programs for international students, a whole range of
				tests are used for placement, including a writing sample, a reading test,
				and an oral interview.  Clearly that's more possible with smaller numbers
				of students who are also paying for the classes.
				
				What do you think is needed in the way of tests?  In Passing the Torch,
				Forrest and I point to assessment as a major issue facing all the colleges
				we studied.  We recommend the development of a test of all four skills
				that, if possible, could be administered and scored in a reasonable amount
				of time.
				
				Have you tried the BEST Plus test?  What has been your experience with
				that test?
				
				I agree that for placement at literacy levels, a simple test developed by
				a program might be sufficient.
				
				I also think that for progress through the levels, student achievement in
				the previous class, as judged by the instructor ("professional wisdom"),
				is still the best determiner of whether a student is ready to go to the
				next level.
				
				Jodi
				
				
				> Jodi,
				>
				> Same here! As long as the BEST Test is used to show gains, I'm afraid that
				> there isn't much chance that REAL gains could be charted and compared. It
				> is used too often to measure progress and is not as good for that purpose
				> as one would hope. Really valid proficiency tests are the only way to
				> prove the point. Achievement tests don't tell much in terms of overall
				> progress. I would also guess that it would take a minimum of 120 hours of
				> solid training to have a measureable level with any test that one could
				> play numbers with. Other factors including attendance, etc. would have to
				> be factored in. Adults have families and jobs in the way of total
				> dedication to attendance. Also, one would have to have a test in which
				> human judgment would play a small role. The BEST is fine for its original
				> purpose, which was to place persons with others at their same levels of
				> communication. Good measurement is the only way to prove anything. I often
				> rely on plain old gut instincts to figure how things are really going. I
				> know that's not very scientific.
				>
				> Cheers,  Ted
				> www.tedklein-ESL.com
				>
				>
				> ----- Original Message -----
				> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
				> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
				> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:05 PM
				> Subject: [Assessment 1138] Re: Observation checklist
				>
				>
				> Hi, Ted.  Glad to make contact again.
				>
				> I definitely agree that smaller classes are more likely to bring learner
				> gains, especially in language, since students will have more opportunity
				> to speak when there are fewer students.  I didn't know about the DLI
				> policy, but it is a good one.  The problem with adult ESL classes, I fear,
				> is that there is such limited money available that programs would find it
				> difficult to keep class size to these numbers.
				>
				> Has anyone tried to reduce class size and chart the learning gains?  If
				> so, please share with us all.  It might be that this would be a good
				> investment.  If students in smaller classes make faster gains, then there
				> would be more spaces available as these students transitioned to other
				> classes or the workforce.
				>
				> Jodi
				>
				> Hi Jodi,
				>>
				>> Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times in the
				>> past,
				>> I think at least once when you visited the Defense Language Institute
				>> English Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I
				>> mention
				>> DLI is that it represents a language program with little leeway to fail.
				>> I
				>> spent 20 years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is to train
				>> allied and friendly military personnel worldwide in general and
				>> specialized English. Most students start ESL in their home countries
				>> with
				>> DLIELC personnel advising, and in some cases teaching, in these overseas
				>> military language centers. It may still be the largest language program
				>> in
				>> the world. Students after reaching certain levels go to Lackland Air
				>> Force
				>> Base in San Antonio, complete their general English, usually go through
				>> specialized terminology and then on to whatever training their country
				>> needs with the U.S. military. Students have run the full gamut from
				>> recruits and NCO's up to generals and admirals. This is a very tightly
				>> organized "well-packaged" language program with predictable training
				>> times
				>> and results.
				>>
				>> Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb while I was at
				>> at DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum. This was
				>> rarely broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters' bean
				>> counter would calculate that if a mere two or three students could be
				>> added to a class, voila, look at the money we would save! This money
				>> came
				>> both from foreign governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue and then
				>> try
				>> it, I believe several times over the years. However, in an organization
				>> that has a very effective testing system; both achievement and
				>> proficiency, it was soon noticed that the scores were going down, just
				>> enough so that they could prove that no money was being saved on teacher
				>> salaries and other expenses. I spent three years with the Royal Thai
				>> Navy
				>> for DLI as language training advisor and remember having to twist arms
				>> with the RTN Navy Education Department with the same problem. They
				>> wanted
				>> 15 in a class.
				>>
				>> Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during my last
				>> eight years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes have
				>> consistently been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an
				>> organization is stuck with a low budget, make the hours of training per
				>> week lower, but keep the class sizes within 10 or so students. Fewer
				>> hours
				>> of really effective training are certainly better than large classes
				>> where
				>> the student attention level and collegiality are reduced. I remember
				>> Mary
				>> Finocchiaro saying years ago that she didn't care how many students were
				>> in her classroom, she would teach them! Unfortunately, most of us just
				>> aren't THAT dynamic.
				>>
				>> Cheers,  Ted
				>> www.tedklein-ESL.com
				>>
				>>
				>>
				>> ----- Original Message -----
				>> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
				>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
				>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM
				>> Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist
				>>
				>>
				>> Usha,
				>>
				>> I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
				>> experience that with more than 10 students, learning decreases?  If so,
				>> how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be
				>> interested
				>> in ways to decrease class size.
				>>
				>> It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
				>> constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more
				>> important
				>> to involve them in activities in which all get to participate, which
				>> means
				>> less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small classes
				>> need that.
				>>
				>> What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?
				>>
				>> You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop out of
				>> classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any of you
				>> keep
				>> records of your students that would identify those who do return?  Do
				>> you
				>> have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning English
				>> outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know of any
				>> research about adult English Language Learners in this area, but there
				>> is
				>> an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State
				>> University
				>> following adult literacy level students for several years.  They have
				>> identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside of the
				>> classroom and also that some of these learners come back to classes
				>> after
				>> being out of them for some time.
				>>
				>> Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of you been
				>> able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of these
				>> services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have been most
				>> effective? If you teach in a community college, have your students had
				>> access to the various support services provided to other students?
				>>
				>> Several of you have talked about the differences in progress made by
				>> students with more advanced education and those who are at literacy
				>> level.
				>>  Because literacy level students take longer in making progress, most
				>> programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and
				>> literate
				>> beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and literacy
				>> will
				>> need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to talk about
				>> what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about
				>> persistence
				>> of literacy level students and their learning gains.
				>>
				>> Students with advanced education in their own language may be able to
				>> have
				>> a condensed program since they are already experienced as students and
				>> often have high motivation to get through English so that they can take
				>> courses related to their previous or future career.  City College of San
				>> Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters worth of
				>> work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer something along
				>> these lines?
				>>
				>> Jodi
				>>
				>>
				>>> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked the tool
				>>> that
				>>> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope that it
				>>> is
				>>> not
				>>> something that has already been asked and answered.
				>>>
				>>> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of our ESL
				>>> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal constraints
				>>> and
				>>> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a positive
				>>> to
				>>> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we expect to see
				>>> more
				>>> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the numbers.
				>>>
				>>> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy programs
				>>> because of many socio-economic factors.
				>>>
				>>> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing market (in
				>>> past
				>>> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to stay in
				>>> one
				>>> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen more in
				>>> people
				>>> who do not have high levels of education from their native country).
				>>>
				>>> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from their
				>>> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some kind of
				>>> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs, go in and
				>>> out
				>>> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of various
				>>> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and have no time
				>>> to
				>>> practice.
				>>>
				>>> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in educational
				>>> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
				>>> availability
				>>> of  community resources.
				>>>
				>>> Usha Narayanan
				>>> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
				>>> California
				>>> 408-522-2737
				>>>
				>>>
				>>> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
				>>>
				>>>> Marie,
				>>>>
				>>>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and out of the
				>>>> U.S.A.
				>>>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc. in ESL.
				>>>> It
				>>>> is
				>>>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that I'm
				>>>> back
				>>>> in the
				>>>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the Defense
				>>>> Language
				>>>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching immigrants part
				>>>> time for
				>>>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin
				>>>> Community
				>>>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what language
				>>>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to work at a
				>>>> higher
				>>>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I
				>>>> apply
				>>>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy
				>>>> traps."
				>>>> I
				>>>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
				>>>> interested and
				>>>> it is published on my website at
				>>>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel absolutely free
				>>>> to use
				>>>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank you very
				>>>> much for
				>>>> the input. Questions are welcome.
				>>>>
				>>>> Cheers,   Ted
				>>>>
				>>>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
				>>>>   Independent Consultant in Language
				>>>>          and Intercultural Training
				>>>>               14456 Agarita Road
				>>>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
				>>>>              Phone:512-266-1801
				>>>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
				>>>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
				>>>>
				>>>>
				>>>> ----- Original Message -----
				>>>>>
				>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
				>>>>>
				>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
				>>>>>
				>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
				>>>>>
				>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
				>>>>>
				>>>>>
				>>>>>
				>>>>>
				>>>>> Hi  Ted,
				>>>>>
				>>>>>
				>>>>>
				>>>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it
				>>>>> yourself?
				>>>>>
				>>>>>
				>>>>>
				>>>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
				>>>>>
				>>>>>
				>>>>>
				>>>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try
				>>>>> to
				>>>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do others
				>>>>> you
				>>>>> work with?
				>>>>>
				>>>>>
				>>>>>
				>>>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the
				>>>>> students
				>>>>> advance?
				>>>>>
				>>>>>
				>>>>>
				>>>>> Marie
				>>>>>
				>>>>>
				>>>>>
				>>>>>
				>>>>>
				>>>>>
				>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
				>>>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
				>>>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
				>>>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
				>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
				>>>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
				>>>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> Marie,
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> Ted
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
				>>>>>>  NO
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>    supportive personality?
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>    other and the instructor?
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>     target language  proficiency?
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>     than push them?
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>     exaggerated speech?
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>     results?
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>> ---- Original Message -----
				>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>> Hello  everyone,
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on  regarding
				>>>>>>> your
				>>>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??  I was
				>>>>>>> very
				>>>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
				>>>>>>> that
				>>>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
				>>>>>>> intensity
				>>>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
				>>>>>>> opportunities
				>>>>>>> for  professional development.
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit the ESL
				>>>>>>> student
				>>>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>> Thanks!
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>> Marie  Cora
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>> Marie  Cora
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
				>>>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>>
				>>>>>>> -------------------------------
				>>>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
				>>>>>>> Assessment mailing list
				>>>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
				>>>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
				>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
				>>>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
				>>>>>
				>>>>>
				>>>>>
				>>>>>
				>>>>>
				>>>>>
				>>>>> -------------------------------
				>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
				>>>>> Assessment mailing list
				>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
				>>>>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings, please go to
				>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
				>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
				>>>>
				>>>>
				>>>> -------------------------------
				>>>> National Institute for Literacy
				>>>> Assessment mailing list
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				>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
				>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
				>>>> Email delivered to usha_narayanan at fuhsd.org
				>>>
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				>>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
				>>>
				>>
				>>
				>> --
				>> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
				>> Professor, Education Department
				>> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
				>> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in
				>> ESOL/Bilingual
				>> Education
				>> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
				>> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
				>> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
				>> email: crandall at umbc.edu
				>> www.umbc.edu/llc/
				>> www.umbc.edu/esol/
				>> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
				>>
				>>
				>>
				>> -------------------------------
				>> National Institute for Literacy
				>> Assessment mailing list
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				>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
				>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
				>> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
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				>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
				>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
				>>
				>
				>
				> --
				> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
				> Professor, Education Department
				> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
				> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
				> Education
				> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
				> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
				> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
				> email: crandall at umbc.edu
				> www.umbc.edu/llc/
				> www.umbc.edu/esol/
				> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
				>
				>
				>
				> -------------------------------
				> National Institute for Literacy
				> Assessment mailing list
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				> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
				> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
				>
				
				
				-- 
				JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
				Professor, Education Department
				Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
				Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
				Education
				University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
				1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
				ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
				email: crandall at umbc.edu
				www.umbc.edu/llc/
				www.umbc.edu/esol/
				www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
				
				
				
				-------------------------------
				National Institute for Literacy
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				To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

				Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

			
			 
			

			JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

			Professor and Director

			Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program

			Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education

			University of Maryland Baltimore County

			1000 Hilltop Circle

			Baltimore, MD 21250

			tel:  410-455-2313

			fax: 410-455-8947

			eml: crandall at umbc.edu

			
			 
			
			 

			
			
			

			
			 

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		To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
		Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu


	
	JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
	Professor and Director
	Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
	Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
	University of Maryland Baltimore County
	1000 Hilltop Circle
	Baltimore, MD 21250
	tel:  410-455-2313
	fax: 410-455-8947
	eml: crandall at umbc.edu





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From forrest at crosslink.net  Fri Feb  8 16:49:50 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 16:49:50 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1207] Re: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <4BF38AF2-AB8B-4E41-A30B-388D328E41BF@umbc.edu>
References: <CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B2E@exchr.raritanval.edu>	<007201c86a04$26b41a50$741c4ef0$@net>	<CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B3C@exchr.raritanval.edu>	<001f01c86a69$364ee6b0$a2ecb410$@net>
	<4BF38AF2-AB8B-4E41-A30B-388D328E41BF@umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <008f01c86a9c$8a4f62c0$9eee2840$@net>

Jodi,

 

I think that's a fantastic conceptualization. As you know, I am not
well-versed in learning theory, but I can't help believing that these kinds
of ideas would be invaluable to teachers. I would love to hear from the
group whether they think most of their teachers are "up on" these kinds of
insights from learning theory and apply them. Or is this part of the
"professional development" challenge we face. It seems to me that it would
be tragic if we don't have the resources to help teachers tap into as much
of this as there is.

 

Forrest    

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 11:40 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1184] Re: (no subject)

 

Kevin,

 

Are many of your students what we now refer to as generation 1.5 students?
They have had much or most of their education in this country, but may still
need extensive help with academic English, especially in writing?

 

If so, are there any special things that you have tried to help this
population?

 

Do you also have international students?

 

Joy Reid has written extensively about "ear" learners (generation 1.5
learners would likely be here) and "eye" learners and how their needs are so
different.  Ear learners are those who were immersed in an English-speaking
environment and have learned their English orally.  As you suggest, they
have strong Basic Interpersonal Communication Skills or social language, but
may not have developed the academic language required for success in the
community college.  Eye learners are just the opposite: they have learned
English through books and lack the fluency of ear learners, but are more
likely to have more standard English  While these two groups share some
common needs, they are also very different in others.  It's a real
challenge.  Getting these ear learners prepared for the college is something
that lots of people are talking and writing about.

 

There is also the problem with the first group that they speak English and
often are offended when told they need more English, especially when it's
ESL!

 

In effect you are teaching only credit ESL, is that right?  Are there
linkages with any of the programs in the community that are teaching lower
level ESL?

 

Jodi  

On Feb 8, 2008, at 10:42 AM, Forrest Chisman wrote:





Kevin,

 

Thanks for the explanation. I find it VERY useful. It's a very interesting
model. I'm not surprised that your students are motivated for college,
because they've signed up for a college prep track! What worries me are the
limited aspirations of many lower level ESL students who may have college
potential. 

 

I understand now why you don't have the resources to operate a more
comprehensive program. I've heard an increasing number of stories about
areas were the LEA runs the federal/state  adult education ESL grant program
and has asked the local college to take it over (because the LEA has
concluded it's an "adult" program). Have there been any rumblings of that in
your area?

 

Best of luck in your good work.

 

Forrest    

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 9:42 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List; The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1174] Re: (no subject)

 

I believe we do have a hard time getting enough students fed into our
program and with the appropriate background to succeed if they do come to
us. It is a real problem. There are some workplace ESL programs which are
run through our Corporate and Continuing Education Office, but those
students rarely, if ever, come to us. And they serve the employees of
specific companies as opposed to the community at large. 

 

Our ESL program is within an academic department in the college
(Communication and Languages) and so is run like every other. ESL students
pay the same tuition and fees as all other students at the college. We do
not receive special government funding beyond what the state and counties
provide for the college as a whole as a part of our yearly budget.

 

Finances are probably a big reason why we are getting fewer students at the
low levels. Community programs are free or low cost; although in the scheme
of higher education, the community college is less expensive, it may still
be out of reach of many students. 

 

In terms of having a more comprehensive program, we are limited by a small
staff, and the unlikelihood of being able to expand given college budgeting
restraints. In addition, our three full-time faculty members (including
myself) not only teach 15 credit hours per semester but also do the
administrative work required. We do advising, scheduling, and the many other
tasks associate with keeping the program afloat. The only "official"
administrative support for the program is through the 3 hours of overload I
receive to serve as Adjunct Coordinator. 

 

The belief that they can attend college does not seem to be a problem with
our population although I can certainly see that it could be. A growing
problem for us (and many around the country) is the disconnect between high
schools and colleges in terms of student preparation. Either the high
schools do not think the students are college-bound and so don't bother to
give them a college-prep course of study, or there is simply a growing gap
between the expectations of each. Additionally, students seem to think that
a high school diploma equates to college readiness.

 

We do our best to advise students, but we don't always have enough time -
and as professors primarily - may not know ourselves what all of the options
for students are. 

 

Kevin 

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 10:38 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1172] Re: (no subject)

Dear Kevin,

 

Many thanks for providing all of us with a profile of your program. Seeing
the variety of college program goals and designs is extremely valuable in
stimulating ideas about how to do a better job in delivering ESL.

 

Personally, I think that it is perfectly valid for colleges to elect to
offer solely pre-academic ESL at the non-credit level. But it does prompt
the concern about whether other programs in the college's service area are
providing non-academic ESL to large enough numbers of students and at a high
enough quality to "feed" the college program - as well as how well their
efforts articulate with yours. I wonder whether this troubles you, and if so
whether/how you have addressed the issue.  Frankly, I think one reason why
many colleges offer comprehensive ESL programs is that they would prefer to
"make" pre-academic students themselves, rather than rely on others to do
it. Another reason, of course, if that they may not be eligible for
federal/state grant money unless they offer comprehensive programs. Does
your college receive these funds to support its pre-academic program? If
not, how is it supported financially?

 

I heartily agree that helping students set realistic goals and understand
their options is essential. I believe, however, that encouraging students to
expand their goals as they succeed is also essential. For example, many
immigrants come from countries where going to college is the privilege of
very few, and thus may consider that an unrealistic goal  unless they are
encouraged to take the steps necessary (often one step at a time). The
problem seems to be that it is hard for most programs to find the resources
to provide very much guidance of any of these kinds to most students. I
wonder if anyone has any solutions to THAT issue. 

 

In any event, many thanks for fleshing out an interesting model.  

 

Forrest     

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:19 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1148] (no subject)

 

Hi All,

 

I have been reading most of the discussion comments and wanted to address a
few issues. First, however, I'll give a summary of our program. 

 

I teach ESL at Raritan Valley Community College in New Jersey. Our program
serves approximately 350 students from diverse language backgrounds. Our
program offers two pre-academic levels of all skills ESL instruction (a six
hour per week non-credit class). In addition, we have 5 levels of academic
ESL preparation divided into three courses - Reading/Writing, Grammar, and
Speaking/Listening). Our highest level Reading/Writing course gives
successful students 6 elective credits that count towards RVCC graduation,
but those credits do not transfer. Our semesters are 15 weeks. If a student
misses 20% of any class, the instructor may withdraw that student (they are
not, however, obliged to withdraw these students). At the moment, the late
enrollment policy is that students may register for a course prior to the
second week of class but not thereafter. Research, of course, indicates that
students who begin a class late have a much higher rate of failure than
those who begin on time. 

 

In our program, we have three full-time faculty and approximately 16-18
adjuncts. 

 

We have focused our program on academic prep ESL because we are a small
program with limited resources, and we have a very difficult time finding
qualified adjuncts. Also, a significant majority of our students have
signalled their intention to obtain a college degree. Moreover, there are
community programs that offer basic English skills although there is often a
long waiting list to obtain the services. In other issues, we use the
Accuplacer ESL test for placement and have in-house standardized tests at
the end of each level of grammar and reading/writing

 

Within our classes, highly educated non-native speakers usually progress
much more quickly. One of the most challenging groups is students who
graduated from local high schools but still have inadequate English skills -
and not infrequently, weak academic skills in general. One of the strategies
that I would personally wish for is real communication between K-12 and
community colleges so that students get the language skills they need before
they enter college. I understand that there is great pressure to move
students out of ESL in many school districts, but ultimately, it does a huge
disservice both financially and in terms of motivation to students whose
skills remain more BICS than CALP. 

 

I agree with those who suggest that first language literacy issues should be
addressed before students enter ESL. However, it becomes complicated to find
funding and support for such efforts. In my experience, students with low
level literacy skills become frustrated and are not ultimately successful -
probably by any definition. I am uncomfortable with the idea that they are
spending hard-earned money when the chances for success in ESL are minimal.
We advise students that the program is academically-oriented; often they
have little understanding of what that means. 

 

I do not agree with the suggestion that the bar be lowered so that students
with low-intermediate skills be allowed in credit classes (at least at my
college). Historically, other faculty have little experience handling
language issues and are very unhappy when students cannot read, write and
converse at an appropriate level of English. They end up feeling helpless.
Students may pass classes; however, I suspect that instructors do not want
to deal with the challenges and so turn a blind eye and let them through.
Recently, there has been a problem in the nursing department with non-native
English speaking students not passing board exams because they enter the
college from other programs and circumvent ESL with us. They have trouble
reading and answering questions on the exam. This is a significant problem
because nursing programs are judged in terms of the success of their
students on these standardized exams. 

 

I think the measure of success should be based on a realistic assessment of
student goals combined with a real-life discussion of the possibilities and
limitations. Ideally, students would have incremental goals so that success
could build. If the goals for students with low literacy levels are not
carefully discussed and planned, then they will likely encounter more
failure than success because their expectaions will be unrealistic. The more
we have the opportunity to talk to students, the more likely it is that they
can develop short-term goals that are within their reach. Unfortunately, we
have no control over the myriad of complications that accrue in their every
day lives. 

 

Apologies for the length.

 

Kevin Hinkle, Ph.D.

Assistant Professor of ESL/Adjunct Coordinator

-------------------------------

National Institute for Literacy

Assessment mailing list

Assessment at nifl.gov

To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

 

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

Professor and Director

Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program

Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education

University of Maryland Baltimore County

1000 Hilltop Circle

Baltimore, MD 21250

tel:  410-455-2313

fax: 410-455-8947

eml: crandall at umbc.edu

 

 





 

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From forrest at crosslink.net  Fri Feb  8 17:08:56 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:08:56 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1208] Re: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <9896493C-9886-4CD1-8578-D7DD25EEE11D@umbc.edu>
References: <CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B2E@exchr.raritanval.edu>	<007201c86a04$26b41a50$741c4ef0$@net>	<CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B3C@exchr.raritanval.edu>	<001f01c86a69$364ee6b0$a2ecb410$@net>	<8CA3889EA7B2E7B-1014-2817@webmailbeta-m10.sysops.aol.com>
	<9896493C-9886-4CD1-8578-D7DD25EEE11D@umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <009d01c86a9f$35a66220$a0f32660$@net>

Joanne,

 

I'm interested in the question Jodi asks too. As I understand it, local
literacy councils have been on the wane, but I hope I'm wrong about that.

 

I'm aware that CBO's are the federal/state grant providers in some areas,
although nationwide (according to DOE surveys anyway) they serve a far
smaller percentage of students than do LEA's and colleges. I mean them no
disrespect.  I've seen some that were highly professionalized and provided
superb service, and some that didn't  -- just like colleges and LEA's J!
It's the quality of the provider, not the type of provider that matters. 

 

What interests me more is your reference to the implicit "division of labor"
between CBO's and colleges or LEA's you mention. I think that in some areas
this is fairly common: colleges or LEA's refer the lowest level students to
CBO's (with or without the necessary funding). In most of the cases where
I've seen this, it doesn't seem to work out very well. There isn't the
coordination/collaboration to which you allude. In fact, I've sometimes had
the impression that it's a way of dumping the hardest to serve students on
CBO's. Too often these students become "out of sight and out of mind." And
because the students ARE the hardest to serve, low success rates make the
CBO's look bad, compared to the other providers - unfairly. I've tried to
chase down information about this model in the past, but I haven't been very
successful. I would love to know if any of the rest of you have experience
with it, and how well you think it works. 

 

Forrest 

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 1:09 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1191] Re: (no subject)

 

Joanne,

 

Bravo!  Making connections with such limited funds is critical.  I remember
when major cities had  councils which coordinated literacy/ESL services.  I
wonder if any of you have some kind of even an  informal network that meets
to discuss the most efficient and effective ways to use the minimal funds
that are available.

Jodi

 

On Feb 8, 2008, at 11:50 AM, jhalaesl at aol.com wrote:





Not always the reason for an LEA-to-local college turnover of those federal
and state adult ed funds
In my experience, it has simply and sadly been the result of limited
resources and insufficient funds.
And in some areas a CBO (not an LEA) manages those grant programs, offers
classes free to the lowest literacy ESL/ESOL students, and is never able to
fully bridge the gap between very part-time instruction and college.

One key element to our small successes has been having colleagues in each
institution (local college, LEA, CBO, gov't DOE/DOL) who understand the
dynamics and the gaps. Granted, most are still limited by the systems in
which they work and to which they must be accountable. But there is still
much to be said for permitting ourselves some case-by-case thinking, making
those simple phone calls, and asking.

Joanne Hala
Literacy Serrvices
Jointure for Community Adult Education, Inc.

've heard an increasing number of stories about areas were the LEA runs the
federal/state  adult education ESL grant program and has asked the local
college to take it over (because the LEA has concluded it's an "adult"
program). Have there been any rumblings of that in your area?

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net>
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List' <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 10:42 am
Subject: [Assessment 1179] Re: (no subject)

Kevin,

 

Thanks for the explanation. I find it VERY useful. It's a very interesting
model. I'm not surprised that your students are motivated for college,
because they've signed up for a college prep track! What worries me are the
limited aspirations of many lower level ESL students who may have college
potential. 

 

I understand now why you don't have the resources to operate a more
comprehensive program. I've heard an increasing number of stories about
areas were the LEA runs the federal/state  adult education ESL grant program
and has asked the local college to take it over (because the LEA has
concluded it's an "adult" program). Have there been any rumblings of that in
your area?

 

Best of luck in your good work.

 

Forrest    

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
<mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov?> ] On Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 9:42 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List; The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1174] Re: (no subject)

 

I believe we do have a hard time getting enough students fed into our
program and with the appropriate background to succeed if they do come to
us. It is a real problem. There are some workplace ESL programs which are
run through our Corporate and Continuing Education Office, but those
students rarely, if ever, come to us. And they serve the employees of
specific companies as opposed to the community at large. 

 

Our ESL program is within an academic department in the college
(Communication and Languages) and so is run like every other. ESL students
pay the same tuition and fees as all other students at the college. We do
not receive special government funding beyond what the state and counties
provide for the college as a whole as a part of our yearly budget.

 

Finances are probably a big reason why we are getting fewer students at the
low levels. Community programs are free or low cost; although in the scheme
of higher education, the community college is less expensive, it may still
be out of reach of many students. 

 

In terms of having a more comprehensive program, we are limited by a small
staff, and the unlikelihood of being able to expand given college budgeting
restraints. In addition, our three full-time faculty members (including
myself) not only teach 15 credit hours per semester but also do the
administrative work required. We do advising, scheduling, and the many other
tasks associate with keeping the program afloat. The only "official"
administrative support for the program is through the 3 hours of overload I
receive to serve as Adjunct Coordinator. 

 

The belief that they can attend college does not seem to be a problem with
our population although I can certainly see that it could be. A growing
problem for us (and many around the country) is the disconnect between high
schools and colleges in terms of student preparation. Either the high
schools do not think the students are college-bound and so don't bother to
give them a college-prep course of study, or there is simply a growing gap
between the expectations of each. Additionally, students seem to think that
a high school diploma equates to college readiness.

 

We do our best to advise students, but we don't always have enough time -
and as professors primarily - may not know ourselves what all of the options
for students are. 

 

Kevin 

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 10:38 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1172] Re: (no subject)

Dear Kevin,

 

Many thanks for providing all of us with a profile of your program. Seeing
the variety of college program goals and designs is extremely valuable in
stimulating ideas about how to do a better job in delivering ESL.

 

Personally, I think that it is perfectly valid for colleges to elect to
offer solely pre-academic ESL at the non-credit level. But it does prompt
the concern about whether other programs in the college's service area are
providing non-academic ESL to large enough numbers of students and at a high
enough quality to "feed" the college program - as well as how well their
efforts articulate with yours. I wonder whether this troubles you, and if so
whether/how you have addressed the issue.  Frankly, I think one reason why
many colleges offer comprehensive ESL programs is that they would prefer to
"make" pre-academic students themselves, rather than rely on others to do
it. Another reason, of course, if that they may not be eligible for
federal/state grant money unless they offer comprehensive programs. Does
your college receive these funds to support its pre-academic program? If
not, how is it supported financially?

 

I heartily agree that helping students set realistic goals and understand
their options is essential. I believe, however, that encouraging students to
expand their goals as they succeed is also essential. For example, many
immigrants come from countries where going to college is the privilege of
very few, and thus may consider that an unrealistic goal  unless they are
encouraged to take the steps necessary (often one step at a time). The
problem seems to be that it is hard for most programs to find the resources
to provide very much guidance of any of these kinds to most students. I
wonder if anyone has any solutions to THAT issue. 

 

In any event, many thanks for fleshing out an interesting model.  

 

Forrest     

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
<mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov?> ] On Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:19 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1148] (no subject)

 

Hi All,

 

I have been reading most of the discussion comments and wanted to address a
few issues. First, however, I'll give a summary of our program. 

 

I teach ESL at Raritan Valley Community College in New Jersey. Our program
serves approximately 350 students from diverse language backgrounds. Our
program offers two pre-academic levels of all skills ESL instruction (a six
hour per week non-credit class). In addition, we have 5 levels of academic
ESL preparation divided into three courses - Reading/Writing, Grammar, and
Speaking/Listening). Our highest level Reading/Writing course gives
successful students 6 elective credits that count towards RVCC graduation,
but those credits do not transfer. Our semesters are 15 weeks. If a student
misses 20% of any class, the instructor may withdraw that student (they are
not, however, obliged to withdraw these students). At the moment, the late
enrollment policy is that students may register for a course prior to the
second week of class but not thereafter. Research, of course, indicates that
students who begin a class late have a much higher rate of failure than
those who begin on time. 

 

In our program, we have three full-time faculty and approximately 16-18
adjuncts. 

 

We have focused our program on academic prep ESL because we are a small
program with limited resources, and we have a very difficult time finding
qualified adjuncts. Also, a significant majority of our students have
signalled their intention to obtain a college degree. Moreover, there are
community programs that offer basic English skills although there is often a
long waiting list to obtain the services. In other issues, we use the
Accuplacer ESL test for placement and have in-house standardized tests at
the end of each level of grammar and reading/writing

 

Within our classes, highly educated non-native speakers usually progress
much more quickly. One of the most challenging groups is students who
graduated from local high schools but still have inadequate English skills -
and not infrequently, weak academic skills in general. One of the strategies
that I would personally wish for is real communication between K-12 and
community colleges so that students get the language skills they need before
they enter college. I understand that there is great pressure to move
students out of ESL in many school districts, but ultimately, it does a huge
disservice both financially and in terms of motivation to students whose
skills remain more BICS than CALP. 

 

I agree with those who suggest that first language literacy issues should be
addressed before students enter ESL. However, it becomes complicated to find
funding and support for such efforts. In my experience, students with low
level literacy skills become frustrated and are not ultimately successful -
probably by any definition. I am uncomfortable with the idea that they are
spending hard-earned money when the chances for success in ESL are minimal.
We advise students that the program is academically-oriented; often they
have little understanding of what that means. 

 

I do not agree with the suggestion that the bar be lowered so that students
with low-intermediate skills be allowed in credit classes (at least at my
college). Historically, other faculty have little experience handling
language issues and are very unhappy when students cannot read, write and
converse at an appropriate level of English. They end up feeling helpless.
Students may pass classes; however, I suspect that instructors do not want
to deal with the challenges and so turn a blind eye and let them through.
Recently, there has been a problem in the nursing department with non-native
English speaking students not passing board exams because they enter the
college from other programs and circumvent ESL with us. They have trouble
reading and answering questions on the exam. This is a significant problem
because nursing programs are judged in terms of the success of their
students on these standardized exams. 

 

I think the measure of success should be based on a realistic assessment of
student goals combined with a real-life discussion of the possibilities and
limitations. Ideally, students would have incremental goals so that success
could build. If the goals for students with low literacy levels are not
carefully discussed and planned, then they will likely encounter more
failure than success because their expectaions will be unrealistic. The more
we have the opportunity to talk to students, the more likely it is that they
can develop short-term goals that are within their reach. Unfortunately, we
have no control over the myriad of complications that accrue in their every
day lives. 

 

Apologies for the length.

 

Kevin Hinkle, Ph.D.

Assistant Professor of ESL/Adjunct Coordinator

-------------------------------






National Institute for Literacy






Assessment mailing list






Assessment at nifl.gov






To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 






http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment






Email delivered to jhalaesl at aol.com
  _____  


More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail
<http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=ao
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-------------------------------

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Assessment mailing list

Assessment at nifl.gov

To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

 

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

Professor and Director

Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program

Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education

University of Maryland Baltimore County

1000 Hilltop Circle

Baltimore, MD 21250

tel:  410-455-2313

fax: 410-455-8947

eml: crandall at umbc.edu

 

 





 

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From forrest at crosslink.net  Fri Feb  8 17:12:52 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:12:52 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1209] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <704191.71242.qm@web54006.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <53D57C79-3DCE-41E2-907F-712B37492670@umbc.edu>
	<704191.71242.qm@web54006.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00a201c86a9f$c22afa80$4680ef80$@net>

Mary Jane,

 

Great post. I think you?re exemplifying how programs can make creative use
of tests, rather than be the captive of them.

 

Forrest

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Mary Jane Jerde
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 2:31 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1196] Re: Observation checklist

 

I don't know if it's still available, but the basic paper BEST or the scale
scored BEST Plus could help avoid social promotion. You need people who are
trained in either and have not worked with a particular student being
interviewed. The training for the old fashioned BEST is not too complicated,
especially if you don't need scale scores.

A similar test is possible to homemake, just set standards for a point
system, just a few points for grammar or fluency for a number of questions
using pictures. Don't allow giving the students feedback for the test. Use
some "gold" standard students to help set the levels by numbers, students
that are commonly agreed to be at certain levels in the two skill areas. 

Mary Jane Jerde

Jodi Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu> wrote:

Kevin,

 

Unfortunately, social promotion is always a danger.  

 

Since your standardized exams for reading/writing and grammar classes have
proved to be so helpful in helping students to be in classes at the right
level, are you thinking of developing a listening/speaking test as well?

 

I wonder whether any other programs have developed or identified a
listening/speaking test that they could describe or recommend?

 

Jodi

On Feb 8, 2008, at 10:03 AM, Hinkle, Robert wrote:





Jodi,

 

At Raritan Valley since my arrival five years ago, we have put in place
homemade standardized exit exams for grammar and reading/writing classes at
each level so that we have some way of ensuring that students with different
instructors enter the next level with approximately the same skill level. We
did that because many instructors engaged in social promotion. The exit
exams have improved the consistency of the program and helped even out the
skill level within classes.

 

We still have the social promotion problem with the listening/speaking
classe because there is no standardized assessment, and instructors
sometimes pass students who really do not have the requisite level. In fact,
some students have complained that the listening/speaking courses are a
waste of time because they have classmates in an upper level class who have
great difficulty speaking. 

 

Even though we have course outlines with clearly defined learning outcomes,
my experience has taught me to be wary of the open-ended concept of
professional wisdom. That sometimes morphs into a misguided belief that
passing unprepared students is somehow constructive.

 

Kevin

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 8:45 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1149] Re: Observation checklist

Ted,

Did you use an oral proficiency interview at the Defense Language
Institute?  If so, how log did it take to administer to each student?  I
think time is a real barrier to most adult ESL/ESOL programs.  Thus, they
use tests that can be administered to students as a group and easily
evaluated.

For some college programs for international students, a whole range of
tests are used for placement, including a writing sample, a reading test,
and an oral interview.  Clearly that's more possible with smaller numbers
of students who are also paying for the classes.

What do you think is needed in the way of tests?  In Passing the Torch,
Forrest and I point to assessment as a major issue facing all the colleges
we studied.  We recommend the development of a test of all four skills
that, if possible, could be administered and scored in a reasonable amount
of time.

Have you tried the BEST Plus test?  What has been your experience with
that test?

I agree that for placement at literacy levels, a simple test developed by
a program might be sufficient.

I also think that for progress through the levels, student achievement in
the previous class, as judged by the instructor ("professional wisdom"),
is still the best determiner of whether a student is ready to go to the
next level.

Jodi


> Jodi,
>
> Same here! As long as the BEST Test is used to show gains, I'm afraid that
> there isn't much chance that REAL gains could be charted and compared. It
> is used too often to measure progress and is not as good for that purpose
> as one would hope. Really valid proficiency tests are the only way to
> prove the point. Achievement tests don't tell much in terms of overall
> progress. I would also guess that it would take a minimum of 120 hours of
> solid training to have a measureable level with any test that one could
> play numbers with. Other factors including attendance, etc. would have to
> be factored in. Adults have families and jobs in the way of total
> dedication to attendance. Also, one would have to have a test in which
> human judgment would play a small role. The BEST is fine for its original
> purpose, which was to place persons with others at their same levels of
> communication. Good measurement is the only way to prove anything. I often
> rely on plain old gut instincts to figure how things are really going. I
> know that's not very scientific.
>
> Cheers,  Ted
> www.tedklein-ESL.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:05 PM
> Subject: [Assessment 1138] Re: Observation checklist
>
>
> Hi, Ted.  Glad to make contact again.
>
> I definitely agree that smaller classes are more likely to bring learner
> gains, especially in language, since students will have more opportunity
> to speak when there are fewer students.  I didn't know about the DLI
> policy, but it is a good one.  The problem with adult ESL classes, I fear,
> is that there is such limited money available that programs would find it
> difficult to keep class size to these numbers.
>
> Has anyone tried to reduce class size and chart the learning gains?  If
> so, please share with us all.  It might be that this would be a good
> investment.  If students in smaller classes make faster gains, then there
> would be more spaces available as these students transitioned to other
> classes or the workforce.
>
> Jodi
>
> Hi Jodi,
>>
>> Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times in the
>> past,
>> I think at least once when you visited the Defense Language Institute
>> English Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I
>> mention
>> DLI is that it represents a language program with little leeway to fail.
>> I
>> spent 20 years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is to train
>> allied and friendly military personnel worldwide in general and
>> specialized English. Most students start ESL in their home countries
>> with
>> DLIELC personnel advising, and in some cases teaching, in these overseas
>> military language centers. It may still be the largest language program
>> in
>> the world. Students after reaching certain levels go to Lackland Air
>> Force
>> Base in San Antonio, complete their general English, usually go through
>> specialized terminology and then on to whatever training their country
>> needs with the U.S. military. Students have run the full gamut from
>> recruits and NCO's up to generals and admirals. This is a very tightly
>> organized "well-packaged" language program with predictable training
>> times
>> and results.
>>
>> Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb while I was at
>> at DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum. This was
>> rarely broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters' bean
>> counter would calculate that if a mere two or three students could be
>> added to a class, voila, look at the money we would save! This money
>> came
>> both from foreign governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue and then
>> try
>> it, I believe several times over the years. However, in an organization
>> that has a very effective testing system; both achievement and
>> proficiency, it was soon noticed that the scores were going down, just
>> enough so that they could prove that no money was being saved on teacher
>> salaries and other expenses. I spent three years with the Royal Thai
>> Navy
>> for DLI as language training advisor and remember having to twist arms
>> with the RTN Navy Education Department with the same problem. They
>> wanted
>> 15 in a class.
>>
>> Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during my last
>> eight years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes have
>> consistently been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an
>> organization is stuck with a low budget, make the hours of training per
>> week lower, but keep the class sizes within 10 or so students. Fewer
>> hours
>> of really effective training are certainly better than large classes
>> where
>> the student attention level and collegiality are reduced. I remember
>> Mary
>> Finocchiaro saying years ago that she didn't care how many students were
>> in her classroom, she would teach them! Unfortunately, most of us just
>> aren't THAT dynamic.
>>
>> Cheers,  Ted
>> www.tedklein-ESL.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM
>> Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist
>>
>>
>> Usha,
>>
>> I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
>> experience that with more than 10 students, learning decreases?  If so,
>> how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be
>> interested
>> in ways to decrease class size.
>>
>> It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
>> constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more
>> important
>> to involve them in activities in which all get to participate, which
>> means
>> less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small classes
>> need that.
>>
>> What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?
>>
>> You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop out of
>> classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any of you
>> keep
>> records of your students that would identify those who do return?  Do
>> you
>> have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning English
>> outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know of any
>> research about adult English Language Learners in this area, but there
>> is
>> an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State
>> University
>> following adult literacy level students for several years.  They have
>> identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside of the
>> classroom and also that some of these learners come back to classes
>> after
>> being out of them for some time.
>>
>> Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of you been
>> able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of these
>> services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have been most
>> effective? If you teach in a community college, have your students had
>> access to the various support services provided to other students?
>>
>> Several of you have talked about the differences in progress made by
>> students with more advanced education and those who are at literacy
>> level.
>>  Because literacy level students take longer in making progress, most
>> programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and
>> literate
>> beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and literacy
>> will
>> need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to talk about
>> what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about
>> persistence
>> of literacy level students and their learning gains.
>>
>> Students with advanced education in their own language may be able to
>> have
>> a condensed program since they are already experienced as students and
>> often have high motivation to get through English so that they can take
>> courses related to their previous or future career.  City College of San
>> Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters worth of
>> work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer something along
>> these lines?
>>
>> Jodi
>>
>>
>>> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked the tool
>>> that
>>> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope that it
>>> is
>>> not
>>> something that has already been asked and answered.
>>>
>>> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of our ESL
>>> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal constraints
>>> and
>>> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a positive
>>> to
>>> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we expect to see
>>> more
>>> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the numbers.
>>>
>>> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy programs
>>> because of many socio-economic factors.
>>>
>>> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing market (in
>>> past
>>> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to stay in
>>> one
>>> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen more in
>>> people
>>> who do not have high levels of education from their native country).
>>>
>>> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from their
>>> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some kind of
>>> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs, go in and
>>> out
>>> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of various
>>> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and have no time
>>> to
>>> practice.
>>>
>>> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in educational
>>> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
>>> availability
>>> of  community resources.
>>>
>>> Usha Narayanan
>>> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
>>> California
>>> 408-522-2737
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Marie,
>>>>
>>>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and out of the
>>>> U.S.A.
>>>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc. in ESL.
>>>> It
>>>> is
>>>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that I'm
>>>> back
>>>> in the
>>>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the Defense
>>>> Language
>>>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching immigrants part
>>>> time for
>>>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin
>>>> Community
>>>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what language
>>>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to work at a
>>>> higher
>>>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I
>>>> apply
>>>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy
>>>> traps."
>>>> I
>>>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
>>>> interested and
>>>> it is published on my website at
>>>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel absolutely free
>>>> to use
>>>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank you very
>>>> much for
>>>> the input. Questions are welcome.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,   Ted
>>>>
>>>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>>>>   Independent Consultant in Language
>>>>          and Intercultural Training
>>>>               14456 Agarita Road
>>>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>>>>              Phone:512-266-1801
>>>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
>>>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com
<http://www.tedklein-esl.com/> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>
>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi  Ted,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it
>>>>> yourself?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try
>>>>> to
>>>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do others
>>>>> you
>>>>> work with?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the
>>>>> students
>>>>> advance?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
>>>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>>>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marie,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ted
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com
<http://www.tedklein-esl.com/> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
>>>>>>  NO
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    supportive personality?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    other and the instructor?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     target language  proficiency?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     than push them?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     exaggerated speech?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     results?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---- Original Message -----
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello  everyone,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on  regarding
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??  I was
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
>>>>>>> intensity
>>>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
>>>>>>> opportunities
>>>>>>> for  professional development.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>>>>>>> student
>>>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>>>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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>>>> Email delivered to usha_narayanan at fuhsd.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Scanned by Barracuda Spam Firewall
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>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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>>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>> Professor, Education Department
>> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
>> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in
>> ESOL/Bilingual
>> Education
>> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
>> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
>> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
>> email: crandall at umbc.edu
>> www.umbc.edu/llc/
>> www.umbc.edu/esol/
>> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>
>
>
> --
> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Professor, Education Department
> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
> Education
> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
> email: crandall at umbc.edu
> www.umbc.edu/llc/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>


--
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html



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From forrest at crosslink.net  Fri Feb  8 17:21:50 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:21:50 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1210] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
	or	Comments?!
In-Reply-To: <578810.50210.qm@web54005.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <002401c869f6$781c6fe0$68554fa0$@net>
	<578810.50210.qm@web54005.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00a701c86aa1$031780d0$09468270$@net>

Mary Jane,

 

It's very clear. Thank you SO much for sharing it.

 

Forrest

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Mary Jane Jerde
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 3:04 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1198] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

 

As for higher education, you can see the note toward the bottom. My
experience has been mostly in grant funded classes with a civics
orientation, but even in the medical terminology class for medical
professionals, I still found myself relying on them. In fact, it seemed even
more important for some of the highly educated immigrants to learn the team
ethic. 

First, this was much easier when I was teaching in an Even Start program
with sixteen contact hours weekly. (There were students with three to nine
years of school, with an occasional misplaced college graduate. I have
taught college educated students in the refugee program and at the community
college.) Ideally the beginning ESL students took leveled classes at the
community college one or two mornings a week, which gave everyone a break.
This did not always happen due to the need for students to be in long enough
to get placed in classes for the next term, but for those who committed
themselves, it was an important asset. Bless the contact folks at the
college who put up with my requests for class space. 

Second, my implicit expectations of student free production were (a la  Barb
Denman) for the lower levels to produce words (identify same/different and
labels), the higher beginners to produce phrases, the intermediates were
held to the higher standard of actual grammatical production. So in a given
whole group activity the students learned that they were held to different
standards as they progressed. They really valued the progression as a form
of promotion.

The two explicit rules I had was to help each other and to work in English.
After a week to adjust, I held them responsible to hold to these rules. Of
course, having some students buy into them was really critical. In thirteen
years, I have only had two students completely abdicate the rules, one a
highly educated man and the other was a woman with minimal education from
different areas of the world. 

With four hours a day, it was easy to divide up time into segments for
various skills and to have realistic whole group activities. I frequently
made worksheets to cover an area of confusion as a group follow-up, though
it could go from lower to higher levels. 

The basic conversational tool is for one student to ask another a question
or give a cue. The second gives a response and asks someone else, "Do you
agree?" The third party agrees or disagrees and can explain why. There
ensues a discussion until there's agreement or they call me in. (I don't
like to answer questions until the student has asked another student first,
no matter how the students' skill levels are perceived.) They must take
turns in this routine and everyone must participate in turn. This is a
powerful principle used in cooperative learning. If a student is stuck, he
or she doesn't have to guess an answer; it's always all right to ask another
student at the beginning of an exercise. This can be used going over
homework, a reading, practicing grammar or pronunciation or whatever in
class. It also teaching the students to be independent of the instructor and
allows them to function as adults. 

What this also does is show the students that no matter their educational
background or other skills they can truly work and learn from each other. I
have had it work with those with up to some high school experience in their
country and more if they have little English. Students with a good bit of
academic English in their own country tend to require more proof that they
benefit from the experience, but once they're caught in the wrong or a less
educated student who is working comes up with the right answer, they usually
can understand the benefits. 

I hope that this is clear. 

Mary Jane

Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:

Mary Jane,

 

Thanks for this input. I gather that all of your classes mix students with
different levels of higher education. Is that right? If so, how do you
manage to find the time (or manage the class) so that you can provide this
extra help to students with low levels of prior education? About how many
hours/week do your classes meet? Also, I think we'd all like to hear some
examples of the cooperation and teamwork you mention, and its results. This
seems to be an important, but too little documented theme.

 

Forrest   

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Mary Jane Jerde
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:31 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List; Jodi Crandall
Subject: [Assessment 1164] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

 

I was going to write a very similar message based on my experience working
under Barbara Denman at the erstwhile refugee program in Prince George's
County, Maryland. 

Now that I work in a community college with ESL classes that span the lowest
level ESL and academic experience to the higher levels of college credit
classes, my experience has grown. The principles of both cooperation and
teamwork in learning and separation by level still hold true. Students
benefit from knowing that they need to help each other. It's part of our
culture, surprise, surprise. The institution where I work has six levels of
class for the various language skills, so there's lots of separation by
level. 

What I have found myself doing with high beginning students and
intermediates with less education in their home countries is preparing them
for the grammatical terms that will come their way if they continue to take
ESL classes. I also work diligently with them to have a firm grasp of basic
English grammar, especially verbs. This will help them at work or if they
decide to begin ABE classes, where the grammar focus is not normally on
their kind of grammar issues. 

Mary Jane Jerde
ESL Instructor
Howard Community College

"Sadan, Noa" <Noa.Sadan at montgomerycollege.edu> wrote:

Years ago, the Montgomery County Refugee Training Program (Montgomery
College, Silver Spring, MD)had highly educated people with no English,
in class with literacy level students. It was certainly difficult
meeting the needs of all students, but in this intensive 20-hours/week
program, a tremendous mutual respect was fostered between the groups.
Typically, the highly educated students raced ahead with reading and
writing, while the literacy students sped ahead with oral language. The
Somali mother of nine would say to the Russian engineer, "I wish I could
read and write like you!", while the Russian woman would reply, "I wish
I could speak like you."

All this ended with a slightly different solution. The Refugee Center,
then under the direction of Donna Kinerney, divided that school day into
separate Listening,Reading and "Homeroom" classes. Homerooom took in all
skills, plus the introduction to the American workplace. This model was
in place when we began to get World English speakers who were not
literate. It provided a solution in which they could study in a
literacy-level reading/writing class, and interact in a higher level
Listening and Homeroom class. 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

Jackie and Forrest,

I think most large programs separate literacy level students from others
who are at a beginning level. I know that back in the 1980s when there
were large refugee ESL programs, several community colleges created
parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels and even into intermediate
levels, with one set of classes for students with limited literacy or
prior schooling and another for more educated students. The reason was
that the students with less education made slower progress. Some of
this is undoubtedly due to the way in which we teach English (requiring
literacy), but it is also because students need to become accustomed to
attending classes, learning to hold and use a pen or pencil, and a wide
range of basic skills that come with being a student in a class.

Those of you who have separate classes for those who need literacy:
Can
you tell us what kind of classes or program you provide?

Those who teach both literacy and more educated learners in the same
class: Can you let us know how you manage? What are some ways in which
you accommodate both sets of needs?

Jodi
> Forrest,
> I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy 
> background and those without. These two groups have such different 
> needs. Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to 
> meet the needs of either group well and I find that often the stronger

> students dominate the class, and their drive push the teacher forward.

> If the instructor does not keep up with the students who are learning 
> at a faster rate, they often become frustrated and leave or mentally 
> check out. However, if the instructor keeps up with those students, 
> the others are unable to keep up and they get frustrated.
> I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless

> of how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.
> Jackie
>
>
> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman wrote:
>>
>> To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor 
>> in student performance:
>>
>>
>>
>> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more 
>> highly educated students do better in terms of persistence, learning

>> gains, and transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect 
>> this.
>> Regrettably
>> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior 
>> education makes, because too few programs track the level of prior 
>> education of their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of

>> you do this? That is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference 
>> level of prior education makes?
>> Or
>> any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior education

>> that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are completely 
>> illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high school 
>> graduates, college graduates, etc. -- or is level of prior education

>> pretty much of a continuum?
>>
>>
>>
>> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between 
>> highly educated students and those with less prior education? 
>> Presumably students with very low levels of education are more likely

>> end up in the lower level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning 
>> levels) why are (almost by
>> definition) in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes

>> math.
>> Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at 
>> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it

>> be desirable to place less highly educated students in separate 
>> classes from those with more education and adjust the 
>> curriculum/support systems for them accordingly? Some programs have 
>> tried "native language literacy" or the Spanish GED. What has been 
>> the experience of any of you with these approaches? Any other ideas? 
>> IS there an adult ESL equivalent of "bi-lingual education" that 
>> should be tried?
>>
>>
>>
>> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the

>> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of 
>> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large

>> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that 
>> means), ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very 
>> little education in their native countries and too little money to 
>> serve them. So anyone who has any ideas about how to bridge this 
>> "education gap" could help us a lot by posting ideas about how to 
>> close it on this discussion list.
>>
>>
>>
>> Forrest Chisman
>>
>> Vice President
>>
>> CAAL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
>> *On
>> Behalf Of *Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM
>> *To:* The Assessment Discussion List
>> *Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No 
>> Questions or Comments?!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Jackie,
>>
>> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what 
>> my former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual 
>> education in the K-12 school system.
>>
>> Tina
>>
>> Tina Luffman
>> Coordinator, Developmental Education
>> Verde Valley Campus
>> 928-634-6544
>> tina_luffman at yc.edu
>>
>> *"Jackie Coelho" * Sent by: 
>> assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>
>> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM
>>
>> Please respond to
>> The Assessment Discussion List 
>>
>> To
>>
>> "The Assessment Discussion List" 
>>
>> cc
>>
>> Subject
>>
>> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or 
>> Comments?!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Tina,
>>
>> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement 
>> in favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented

>> in the best way. For many years people have known that a good 
>> foundation in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning

>> in a second or third language.
>>
>> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not 
>> written.
>>
>> Jackie
>>
>>
>> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu wrote:
>> > Hi list members,
>> >
>> > My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to
>> that
>> of
>> > Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the 
>> > country
>> they
>> > came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather
>> quickly
>> and
>> > get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their
>> country
>> or
>> > lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much 
>> > advancement.
>> >
>> > This experience relates well to research done among Native American
>> tribes
>> > teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught
>> literacy
>> > skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those 
>> > who
>> tried
>> > to learn literacy skills in English without that background in 
>> > their
>> own
>> > tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. 
>> > The concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish 
>> > were much
>> easier
>> > to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps 
>> > this
>> is
>> > something deserving more research.
>> >
>> > Tina
>> > Tina Luffman
>> > Coordinator, Developmental Education Verde Valley Campus
>> > 928-634-6544
>> > tina_luffman at yc.edu
>> >
>> > -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
>> >
>> > To: "The Assessment Discussion List" 
>> > From: "Gail Burnett" Sent by: 
>> > assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>> > Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
>> > Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or

>> > Comments?!
>> >
>> >
>> > Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
>> > Warning: (not named).
>> > Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for
>> more
>> > information.
>> >
>> > In our small adult education program, my experience (just about 
>> > three
>> years)
>> > is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,
>> particularly if
>> > they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, 
>> > if
>> at
>> > all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first 
>> > language. I
>> would
>> > say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a
>> student
>> > who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed 
>> > because
>> he/she
>> > is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is
>> try
>> to
>> > get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard
>> concept
>> > in a second language.
>> >
>> > This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't
>> play
>> a
>> > part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers 
>> > (transitioned
>> from
>> > another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than
>> classes).
>> > My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow
advancement.
>> It's
>> > hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL
>> teachers.
>> > The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is
>> encouraging
>> me
>> > to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think
>> we're
>> > making some progress.
>> >
>> > Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> >
>> > From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
>> > Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
>> > To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>> > Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!
>> >
>> >
>> > Hello everyone,
>> >
>> > I'm so surprised! No one has anything to comment on regarding your

>> > program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? I was 
>> > very curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of 
>> > issues
>> that
>> Dr.
>> > Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research: a lack of 
>> > intensity
>> of
>> > instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few 
>> > opportunities
>> for
>> > professional development.
>> >
>> > What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL
>> student
>> > from advancing? What do you try to do about that?
>> >
>> > Please post your questions and comments now.
>> >
>> > Thanks!
>> >
>> > Marie Cora
>> > Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>> >
>> >
>> > Marie Cora
>> > marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>> > 
>> > NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator 
>> > 
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> >
>> >
>> > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>> intended
>> > solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>> addressed.
>> > If you have received this email in error please notify the system
>> manager.
>> > This message contains confidential information and is intended only
>> for
>> the
>> > individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not

>> > disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
>> > -------------------------------
>> > National Institute for Literacy
>> > Assessment mailing list
>> > Assessment at nifl.gov
>> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
>> > 
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> > Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
>> >
>> >
>> > -------------------------------
>> > National Institute for Literacy
>> > Assessment mailing list
>> > Assessment at nifl.gov
>> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
>> > 
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> > Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
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>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
>> 
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu 
>> 
>>
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>> Assessment mailing list
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>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
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>>
>>
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> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
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> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>


--
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture Coordinator,
Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC) 1000 Hilltop Circle,
Baltimore, MD 21250
ph: 410-455-2313/2376 fax: 410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html



-------------------------------
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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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  _____  

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From forrest at crosslink.net  Fri Feb  8 17:24:36 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:24:36 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1212] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No
	Questions	orComments?!
In-Reply-To: <7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F0389D591@MAIL.cal.local>
References: <A1FACE81B7C82147B9CE6822E2D4A701022A24F8@MCMAIL2.mcnte.mc.cc.md.us>	<3CB6A6A4-8951-4438-BD56-DEBAF6A7E6AC@umbc.edu>
	<7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F0389D591@MAIL.cal.local>
Message-ID: <00ac01c86aa1$68e77fa0$3ab67ee0$@net>

Miriam,

 

I love this! I would never have thought of it. And I love stuff I would
never have thought of!

 

Forrest

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Miriam Burt
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 3:04 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1199] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
orComments?!

 

Noa and others,

 

I like the idea of the snack bar very much, but I'm curious about how the
concept of buying and wearing second hand clothing from strangers, if you
will, is received by the students. My experience is that the idea purchasing
and wearing someone else's second-hand clothes and items is actually one
that doesn't always translate across all cultures. True, the idea is highly
positive among middle class here in the U.S.  where it is seen as a way of
saving money,  being "green," and not wasting resources -- and this is
demonstsrated by the prolitferation of trendy 2nd hand boutiques in cities
and ads on Craig's list to sell gently used baby clothes (even diapers! )
and toys. However, some cultural groups may find the idea of buying and
wearing someone else's clothing as "charity"  (as Jodi says below) or
something somewhat distasteful.  Perhaps the fact that all items are 50
cents takes that edge off? Has anyone else had this experience with the
concept of 2nd hand items and other cultures?

 

Great discussion here! 

Miriam

**********

Center for Adult English Language Acquisition

Center for Applied Linguistics

4646 40th Street NW

Washington, DC 20016

(202) 362-0700 

(202) 363-7204 (fax) 

 <mailto:mburt at cal.org> mburt at cal.org (email)

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 1:18 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1192] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
orComments?!
Importance: Low

Noa, 

 

These are fabulous ideas.  I especially like the emphasis on how literacy
level students can help those who are more educated and also cooperate and
compete with them in the snack bar and boutique.  

 

You have provided clear guidance on how to maximize both groups' strengths
and also encourage them to learn from each other.

 

By the way, "boutique" is so much more positive a name than the usual
"closet" or another name that sounds like it's charity.

 

Do others have suggestions of ways of accommodating literacy level and more
educated students in the same class.

 

Jodi

 

On Feb 8, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Sadan, Noa wrote:





Jodi,

 

The classroom mix of the highly educated literate students who didn't know
English with the literacy level beginning English students was often a
challenge. The first (unstated) task was to help the educated students
realize that they might learn a great deal from those who picked up oral
language faster than they did. 

 

Techniques for dealing with the mixed levels:

    The Key: fostering a sense of community within the class

    Main technique: Group work - teacher as enabler, moving around the
groups

*	        extra reading help in reading given while class was working
on either written assignments or group projects 
*	        groups were mixed 

*	            always by language 
*	            occasionally by gender 
*	            rarely by ability (only when reading lessons
specifically for the literacy group were held)

    School Job: The Refugee Center has a working Snack Bar, and Boutique
(donated clothing - everything sells for fifty cents/item).

*	         students polish their abilty to work together 
*	        students learn chain of command (literacy level students are
supervisors just as often as the highly educated, since they often have a
verbal advantage) 
*	         literacy-level students could make coffee, serve as a
cashier, and give excellent customer service 
*	        a highly educated accountant who cannot get out an English
sentence orally, could create a cost-accounting spreadsheet see if it was
less expensive to buy bulk sugar or packets for coffee.

Other projects are used as well - making recipe books, making student
profile books. Today, with the use of the computer, the possibilities are
endless for activities for mixed classes.

 

Noa

   

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 12:59 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1152] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
orComments?!

Noa, 

 

Thanks for sharing this.  How wonderful to have had 20 hours per week for
these students.  Besides mutual respect (which is very important), were
there ways in which students could use their complementary skills to help
each other.  If you could describe some of the activities that you or others
used that were helpful, that would be great.

 

If others of you could share your experiences with mixed classes, and how
you coped with them, I think a lot of us would be interested.

 

The change to separate Listening, Reading and "Homeroom" classes is also a
very interesting way of meeting the needs of this diverse population.  I
know that many community colleges separate their instruction in adult ESL to
oral language skills (Listening/Speaking) and written language
(Reading/Writing) skills.  Are there others out there who could share your
experiences in this regard?

 

The presence of World English speakers and Generation 1.5 speakers in adult
ESL has further complicated the situation.  I'd be interested in knowing how
others  have dealt with such diverse students in adult ESL/ESOL.

 

Jodi

 

 

 

n Feb 7, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Sadan, Noa wrote: 





Years ago, the Montgomery County Refugee Training Program (Montgomery

College, Silver Spring, MD)had highly educated people with no English,

in class with literacy level students. It was certainly difficult

meeting the needs of all students, but in this intensive 20-hours/week

program, a tremendous mutual respect was fostered between the groups.

Typically, the highly educated students raced ahead with reading and

writing, while the literacy students sped ahead with oral language. The

Somali mother of nine would say to the Russian engineer, "I wish I could

read and write like you!", while the Russian woman would reply, "I wish

I could speak like you."

 

All this ended with a slightly different solution. The Refugee Center,

then under the direction of Donna Kinerney, divided that school day into

separate Listening,Reading and "Homeroom" classes. Homerooom took in all

skills, plus the introduction to the American workplace. This model was

in place when we began to get World English speakers who were not

literate. It provided a solution in which they could study in a

literacy-level reading/writing class, and interact in a higher level

Listening and Homeroom class. 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]

On Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM

To: The Assessment Discussion List

Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or

Comments?!

 

Jackie and Forrest,

 

I think most large programs separate literacy level students from others

who are at a beginning level.  I know that back in the 1980s when there

were large refugee ESL programs, several community colleges created

parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels and even into intermediate

levels, with one set of classes for students with limited literacy or

prior schooling and another for more educated students.  The reason was

that the students with less education made slower progress.  Some of

this is undoubtedly due to the way in which we teach English (requiring

literacy), but it is also because students need to become accustomed to

attending classes, learning to hold and use a pen or pencil, and a wide

range of basic skills that come with being a student in a class.

 

Those of you who have separate classes for those who need literacy:

Can

you tell us what kind of classes or program you provide?

 

Those who teach both literacy and more educated learners in the same

class:  Can you let us know how you manage?  What are some ways in which

you accommodate both sets of needs?

 

Jodi

Forrest,

   I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy 

background and those without. These two groups have such different 

needs. Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to 

meet the needs of either group well and I find that often the stronger

 

students dominate the class, and their drive push the teacher forward.

 

If the instructor does not keep up with the students who are learning 

at a faster rate, they often become frustrated and leave or mentally 

check out. However, if the instructor keeps up with those students, 

the others are unable to keep up and they get frustrated.

  I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless

 

of how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.

Jackie

 

 

On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:

 

 To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor 

in student performance:

 

 

 

Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more 

highly educated students do better in terms of  persistence, learning

 

gains, and transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect 

this.

Regrettably

we found very little hard data about how much difference prior 

education makes, because too few programs track the level of prior 

education of their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of

 

you do this? That is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference 

level of prior education makes?

Or

any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior education

 

that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are completely 

illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high school 

graduates, college graduates, etc. --  or is level of prior education

 

pretty much of a continuum?

 

 

 

More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between 

highly educated students and those with less prior education? 

Presumably students with very low levels of education are more likely

 

end up in the lower level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning 

levels) why are (almost by

definition)  in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes

 

math.

Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at 

these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it

 

be desirable to place less highly educated students in separate 

classes from those with more education and adjust the 

curriculum/support systems for them accordingly? Some programs have 

tried "native language literacy" or the Spanish GED. What has been 

the experience of any of you with these approaches? Any other ideas? 

IS there an adult ESL equivalent of "bi-lingual education" that 

should be tried?

 

 

 

It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the

 

people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of 

immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large

 

numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that 

means), ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very 

little education in their native countries and too little money to 

serve them.  So anyone who has any ideas about how to bridge this 

"education gap" could help us a lot by posting ideas about how to 

close it on this discussion list.

 

 

 

Forrest Chisman

 

Vice President

 

CAAL

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 

[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]

*On

Behalf Of *Tina_Luffman at yc.edu

*Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM

*To:* The Assessment Discussion List

*Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No 

Questions or Comments?!

 

 

 

 

Hi Jackie,

 

Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what 

my former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual 

education in the K-12 school system.

 

Tina

 

Tina Luffman

Coordinator, Developmental Education

Verde Valley Campus

928-634-6544

tina_luffman at yc.edu

 

  *"Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>* Sent by: 

assessment-bounces at nifl.gov

 

02/05/2008 11:13 AM

 

Please respond to

The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>

 

To

 

"The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>

 

cc

 

Subject

 

[Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or  

Comments?!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Tina,

 

This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement 

in favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented

 

in the best way. For many years people have known that a good 

foundation in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning

 

in a second or third language.

 

Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not 

written.

 

Jackie

 

 

On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:

Hi list members,

 

My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to

that

of

Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the 

country

they

came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather

quickly

and

get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their

country

or

lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much 

advancement.

 

This experience relates well to research done among Native American

tribes

teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught

literacy

skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those 

who

tried

to learn literacy skills in English without that background in 

their

own

tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. 

The concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish 

were much

easier

to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps 

this

is

something deserving more research.

 

Tina

Tina Luffman

Coordinator, Developmental Education Verde Valley Campus

928-634-6544

tina_luffman at yc.edu

 

-----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----

 

To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>

From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org> Sent by: 

assessment-bounces at nifl.gov

Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM

Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or

 

Comments?!

 

 

Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed

Warning: (not named).

Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for

more

information.

 

In our small adult education program, my experience (just about 

three

years)

is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,

particularly if

they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, 

if

at

all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first 

language. I

would

say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a

student

who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed 

because

he/she

is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is

try

to

get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard

concept

in a second language.

 

This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't

play

a

part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers 

(transitioned

from

another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than

classes).

My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow

advancement.

It's

hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL

teachers.

The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is

encouraging

me

to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think

we're

making some progress.

 

Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?

 

________________________________

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora

Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM

To: Assessment at nifl.gov

Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!

 

 

Hello everyone,

 

I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on regarding your

 

program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance??  I was 

very curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of 

issues

that

Dr.

Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of 

intensity

of

instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few 

opportunities

for

professional development.

 

What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL

student

from advancing?  What do you try to do about that?

 

Please post your questions and comments now.

 

Thanks!

 

Marie Cora

Assessment Discussion List Moderator

 

 

Marie Cora

marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

<mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>

NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator 

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--

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

Professor, Education Department

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Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education

University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC) 1000 Hilltop Circle,

Baltimore, MD 21250

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JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

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Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education

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Baltimore, MD 21250

tel:  410-455-2313

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eml: crandall at umbc.edu

 

 





 

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From forrest at crosslink.net  Fri Feb  8 17:36:01 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:36:01 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1213] Re: {Dangerous Content?}
	RE:	No	Questions	orComments?!
In-Reply-To: <BAY115-W1173CDAB4043D2052A8DB5BF2F0@phx.gbl>
References: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870AD7F32B@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>	<4CA15A25-2C3D-42D0-BAF3-C0ED4E232D86@umbc.edu>
	<004b01c86a81$9934a9f0$cb9dfdd0$@net>
	<BAY115-W1173CDAB4043D2052A8DB5BF2F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <00b101c86aa2$fe9912b0$fbcb3810$@net>

Yes, that IS how it?s normed. Yet norming has its limits.  The same
percentage of high school grads couldn?t pass the old test too. But their
referral rate to Developmental Ed. was higher than high school grads.  As I
understand it, both the GED Testing Service and ACT (which producers the
Compass Test commonly used to determine whether students should be referred
to Developmental ED) are trying to figure out why there is a difference
between norming for other purposes and the norming for college placement
purposes ? and what to do about it. I hope they do. It?s certainly in the
interests of both to do so. In the interim, there is a cottage industry of
transition programs trying to bridge the gap. Good for them!

 

Forrest   

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Mary Lynn Simons
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 3:27 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1202] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
orComments?!

 

Don't forget that 1/3 of high school grads cannot pass the GED; that is how
it is normed. The old test was a snap and the Spanish old test was a double
snap, much easier than the English.

  _____  

From: forrest at crosslink.net
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:36:58 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1193] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
orComments?!

Jim,

 

I?m with Jodi on this. Many people would take exception  with the idea that
the Spanish GED is too hard. I think people who have studied
economic/educational benefits by and large think BOTH the English and
Spanish GED?s, as well as high school diplomas, are TOO EASY. I believe the
research shows that GED holders have a far higher rate of placement in
developmental education than do high school graduates, but that data may be
based on the OLD  GED.

 

Forrest  

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 11:49 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1185] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
orComments?!

 

Jim,

 

I think you've summarized how I feel as well.

 

We can discuss the various options with students, but in the end, if we
offer Spanish Literacy and Spanish GED, it's their choice.  Some will choose
to do everything in English and take longer to do it, but others will choose
to work in their own language.  For some students, the Spanish GED provides
short-term benefits.  But they will still need ESL for future academic or
vocational training, if they have limited English.

 

Have any programs tried to encourage students in Spanish Literacy or Spanish
GED to take ESL classes as well?

 

Jodi

 

 

 

 

On Feb 8, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Schneider, Jim wrote:

 

I feel compelled to put my two cents in on the Spanish GED. 

 

My experience is that both Andres and Ted have valid points. Here in Eastern
Iowa, there are few bilingual employers. Employers that are bilingual rarely
pay the best wages and are typically short of employees if there are any
signs of INS.  

 

On the other hand, many of the students who have completed the Spanish GED
are already employed, and have fairly decent English skills, but are short
on time. Attaining the GED provides them the opportunity for advancement at
work and/or access to postsecondary education/training. 

 

It has been excruciating watch the one or two who insist on the GED in
English get through the Literature and Writing portions of the test. 

 

And the difficulty of the new Spanish GED tests are such that it is a rare
student who can pass it. The old Spanish GED was attainable for most
learners who had a 6-8th grade education. We have found that it is virtually
impossible for anyone with less than a 10-11 grade education By simply
translating the English test into Spanish and then utilizing the standard
scores/norms of the English test, students who have passed it, have EARNED
their GED. 

 

Jim S.  

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Ted Klein
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 8:49 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1175] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
orComments?!

Andres,

 

I'm not too sure that some of your perspectives haven't been somewhat
altered by living in El Paso. I say that with total respect for El Paso and
for your answer. Let me explain. First, I've lived in Texas most of my life,
except for some time overseas. I know just about all of our border towns,
from El Paso to Brownsville. I've also lived in nine countries outside of
the United States and traveled perhaps in twenty more. AXIOM: All over the
world, border towns are different  from other towns. Persons, regardless of
ancestry,  who live in border towns anywhere tend to be bicultural and
bilingual. They also tend to identify with each other on close levels as
being a well-made "tossed salad." If most or all of your students plan to
stay in El Paso for the rest of their lives, I totally agree with what you
say. However, if they want to go to cities north of the border area; Dallas,
Ft. Worth, Austin, Houston, Waco, or out of state, then the picture changes.
I am almost as comfortable in Spanish as I am in English and have dealt with
persons from every country in Latin America comfortably and successfully, as
well as Spain. However, I do not represent anything close to a majority,
particularly when it comes to having a business. When persons go for job
interviews in non-border towns, being truly bilingual is a great asset and
can even result in higher pay and better opportunities. That is true for
Spanish speakers and English speakers. However, most of your persons who
have had to take the GED in Spanish are not truly bilingual. That's a fact
and when they go for a job interview, the human resources person doesn't
need paperwork to know that there may be communication problems with clients
and on the telephone. The fact is that life is short. However it is long
enough for persons to spend a couple of more years acquiring English if it
gives them more options in life. Again, if they plan to spend their lives in
a border town, this may not be a problem at all. 

 

Three years ago, my wife and I and one of our colleagues, took an ESL
teaching gig at a cookie factory in Austin. Quite a few of their employees
did not speak English and the company wanted to fix that situation. There
were 27 persons who had volunteered to take English classes at work, maybe
six hours a week. The first problem was how to determine divisions of 27
students among three teachers. I got out a brief "test" that I had used to
determine readiness for the ALCPT tests in the past.

 

Here is a copy:

 

ORAL INTERVIEW QUESTIONS TO DETERMINE ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE

 

                                                      Block 2
Ted Klein

 

Questions marked with an asterisk * are mandatory. Of the remaining
questions, ten should be selected at random. Speech of the interviewer will
be at normal speed and clarity, with NO exaggeration.

 

1. What is your name please?*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

2. Where are you from?* -------

 

3. What part of XXXXXXX are you from?-------

 

4. What is your native language? -------

 

5. How long have you been in America? -------

 

6. Do you read English?* -------

 

7. Did you study English in your country? -------

 

8. How long did you study English? -------

 

9. Are you enjoying the U.S.A? -------

 

10. What do you like here? -------

 

11. Is there anything that you don't like? -------

 

12. Have you studied any other languages besides English? -------

 

13. Why do you want to learn English? -------

 

14. How many years of education have you had? -------

 

15. Do you have any hobbies? What are they? -------

 

16. Do you have any American friends to practice English with? -------

 

17. Do you work?  Where? -------

 

18. What are your plans for the future? -------

 

19. Why did you come to America? -------

 

20. Do you have any questions for me? -------

 

 

Mark responses: 0 no answer.   0+ telegraphic/very simple response. 

1 simple, but complete response.  1+ functional and clear response.

2   somewhat elaborate, fairly clear and mostly grammatical response.

 

Interviewees with ten or more answers in the 1+ to 2 range should be ready
to take a written

proficiency test of listening and reading skills. Non-readers are excluded.
(ref: Ques. 6)

 

The three of us interviewed the 27 candidates together. 19 out of the 27
were not able to answer the second question: e.g. (Teacher) Where are you
from?

(Candidate) ?Mande?  (Teacher) Where are you from? ?Como?  (Teacher) Are you
from Mexico? (Candidate) M?xico, "jes." One answered, "M?xico, no, Peru s?."

 

The 8 students who were able to answer that question and maybe four or five
more questions were assigned to an "advanced class." The others were split
into two groups. What happened here? Many of these persons had lived in
Austin for some time. Some for up to ten years. Most had families. The
families naturally used Spanish at home, even their children who spoke
English at school. They had Spanish-speaking supervisors. They watched
television in Spanish. They ate at Mexican restaurants. They went to
Spanish-speaking doctors. 95% of their friends were Hispanic. In plain
language, if they wanted to stay at the cookie factory, making cookies, they
didn't need English, although the company preferred that they know English
for upward mobility. This program went on for three or four months.The
company merged and our program ended. We did not use Spanish in class. In
early training I use materials that I developed based on some of the old
"direct methods;" picture flashcards, Cuisenaire rods, etc. and we also
concentrated strongly on English sounds, particularly listening and
identification. The program went surprisingly well and many of the students
were very disappointed when it ended. They had already found some new places
to go and some were acquiring English-speaking friends.

 

So what is the good news? Several of our former students have entered the
Austin Community College AE program and are doing well. One of them is in my
class now. She has a child and often works at night at the cookie factory.
Sometimes she comes in looking very tired, but she's surviving. She wants to
be a Certified Nursing Assistant. She'll make it! She plans to take the GED
in English next year and enter the Nursing Program at ACC. Most of her
future patients will not be bilingual and she will be ready for them. 

 

That's about it.

 

Ted  

www.tedklein-ESL.com

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: andresmuro at aol.com 

To: assessment at nifl.gov 

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 12:02 PM

Subject: [Assessment 1153] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

 

Ted:

How would the employer know the language that Julian took the GED in?
In most states the certificate does not tell you the Language. Texas is one
of the few states that tells you the language. However, it is so hard to
find that most people wouldn't even know. I have a hard time finding the
language reference even though I have seen millions of certificates. Fact is
most employers don't even know that people can take the GED in anything
other than English, don't ask and do not scrutinize certificates to figure
out scores, language, etc. A few might, but the majority don't. For low
literacy Spanish speakers it may take them a couple of years to be ready to
take the GED in Spanish. It make take them 2 more years to be ready for the
English GED. Would you rather hold them two more years. They can take the
GED in Spanish and continue to study English. Once they have sufficient
English, they can decide if they want to take it in English or to move on to
other things.

Andres

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Klein <taklein at austin.rr.com>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 6:58 am
Subject: [Assessment 1150] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

Jodi and Andres,

 

There is one very real problem with taking the GED in Spanish that I'm aware
of. If you have two immigrants, Roberto and Ju?n, and they both apply for
the same job and if Ju?n took the GED in Spanish and Roberto took it in
English, guess who gets the job?

Yes, life isn't fair, but most U.S. businesses prefer persons who have gone
"all the way" with English. My students and I have discussed this and they
have seen or know of this situation with their friends and family members.
That is why many AE students remain longer in our ESL classes. Of course in
many border towns, this may not be as important since many of the employers
are Hispanic or are native speakers of English who are functional in
Spanish. However, many customers of the businesses will need to use English.


 

In my current class in Austin, Texas with eleven students, five different
languages are spoken. Should we offer the GED in Arabic, Chinese, Korean,
and Juba as well as Spanish?

 

 

Ted

www.tedklein-ESL.com 

 

 

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: andresmuro at aol.com 

To: crandall at umbc.edu ; assessment at nifl.gov 

Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 5:21 PM

Subject: [Assessment 1146] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

 

Jodi:

The credit ESL program in the college is very academic. However it provides
students with financial aid and other goodies. We feel that the students
will not do well in a credit academic ESL program until they have a level
comparable to GED in their native language. Also, a GED certificate is a way
to demonstrate ability to benefit to qualify for financial aid. Those
students who get into the credit ESL program without native language
literacy don't do well. 

Students can attend other ESL classes in the community while they are
attending our classes. We stopped providing ESL because of limited funding
to provide what we would consider meaningful ESL. Also, our Spanish GED
program is fairly intensive and our students would not have enough time to
attend an additional program. We have a few students who may be attending
our classes and an ESL class concurrently. Those are a minority

The truth is that we started as an ESL literacy program many years ago.
There was virtually no funding for  literacy ESL unless it  had all kind of
testing requirements. Also, it is very hard to train teachers to be really
good at ESL. The system that encourages large number of untrained part
timers prevents this from happening. 

I know that a lot of people in these listservs claim exemplary service and
illustrate  with examples of what they have done. I don't doubt that  their
claims are 100% true. However,  we are in the minority. If I could get you
and Heide and Elsa and Andy Nash and Leonore and Deborah Schwartz, and Anson
Green and Federico and others to be my ESL teachers, I would have the best
program in the world. However, the fact is that in addition to the barriers
that ESL students face in their daily lives, plus the bureaucratic and
assessment barriers that the system creates for teachers and students, plus
the difficulty hiring and retaining highly qualified ESL staff makes it very
difficult to have a successful ESL program. 

I feel that until we get rid of WIA/NRS it will be tough to create good
stuff in a systematic way. 

Andres

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 1:27 pm
Subject: [Assessment 1141] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

Andres,























































It is great that you provide Spanish language literacy and GED classes for



























your students.  There's no question that native language literacy



























contributes not just to the development of the first language, but also to



























English language development when students take oral ESL classes.  There



























is some research in this area by Michele Burtoff with Haitians in the U.S.



























and there is a lot of research (see especially research by David Ramirez



























which compares children who had 6, 3 or no years of bilingual education)



























that shows that providing bilingual education not only has all the



























benefits that would be expected, but students also achieve in English as



























well or better than those who only had instruction in English.























































We also found that Spanish GED classes had large numbers of students at



























the colleges, since students who take the GED in Spanish are able to



























bypass the need for extensive ESL just to get this credential.  They might



























want to take ESL as well, but the desire for the GED is often for



























work-related reasons.  I'm not clear on why you ask students to wait until



























after they have passed the GED to take ESL classes.  Can you tell us a



























little more about that?























































Of course not all students who enroll in adult ESL are Spanish speakers



























and there may not be enough who speak any language to provide literacy



























classes for them in their own language, but programs might try to partner



























with immigrant or refugee-related community-based organizations which



























could reach more students and also identify someone to provide the



























instruction.  Still, there will  be students who will not be able to take



























literacy classes in their own languages and for them, a separate ESL



























literacy class seems to be the best option.























































It would be great to hear from others about their experiences both with



























first language (Spanish and other languages) literacy classes, Spanish GED



























classes, and literacy ESL classes.























































How do you place students in your literacy classes?  Do you use a



























standardized test or do you have informal ways of determining if someone



























would be better served in a literacy ESL class?



















































































Jodi























































>



























>  Problem is that in many ESL people are placed in ESL classes based on an



























> English placement multiple choice test. A student with advanced education



























> in L1 and one with little education in L1 may know very little English



























> and they may both be placed in the same level. The student with advance



























> education will progress much faster than the one with little education.



























> The advanced L1 student will understand concepts like sentence,



























> paragraph, verb, subject, direct object, adjective, composition and essay



























> readily. The one with with little education will need to understand these



























> concepts. It takes a while for people to master these concepts. A highly



























> educated L2? learner will likely progress faster academically in a second



























> language than a fluent native speaker of that? language with limited



























> academic education, for the same reason. This is observed regularly in



























> universities all over the US. highly educated foreign students who



























> acquired English as L2 recently will do better than their Eng



























>  lish speaking counterparts in academic tasks in English. Jim Cummins has



























> articulated this clearly with his BICS and CALPS.



























>



























> In our program at El Paso Community College we have found evidence of



























> this. We stopped doing literacy ESL a while back for this reason. The



























> college has an academic ESL program. Instead of doing ESL literacy we



























> started offering Spanish Literacy and GED many years ago since the vast



























> majority of our students are Spanish speakers. Once our students acquire



























> their Spanish GED they transition into the ESL program and do better than



























> those students who don't have L1 academic skills. Even if takes them a



























> while to acquire the L1 literacy, they will do better. Those with no L1



























> literacy often stay in ESL forever and they drop out, start again in



























> another program, drop out and continue the same pattern. I think that this



























> happens because of the mixture of academically ready students and those



























> that are not ready, since most ESL programs focus on traditional



























> academics. For L1 low literacy students to be able to progress in L2 there



























> has to be a program specifically designed for them that teache



























>  s skills in L2 in new and innovative ways without interference from



























> academically skilled L1 students. Right now we don't have a system that



























> systematically does this, and the WIA/NRS system prevents this form



























> happening.



























>



























> Hope that this makes sense,



























>



























> Andres



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























> -----Original Message-----



























> From: Jackie Coelho <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>



























> To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>



























> Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 5:01 am



























> Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or



























> Comments?!



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























> Forrest,



























>



























>



























> ?? I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy



























> background and those without. These two groups have such different needs.



























> Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs



























> of either group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate



























> the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor



























> does not keep up with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they



























> often become frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the



























> instructor keeps up with those students, the others are unable to keep up



























> and they get frustrated.



























>



























>



























>



























> ? I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of



























> how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.



























>



























>



























> Jackie



























>



























> ?



























>



























>



























> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























> To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in



























> student performance:



























>



























>



























> ?



























>



























>



























> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly



























> educated students do better in terms of ?persistence, learning gains, and



























> transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably



























> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education



























> makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of



























> their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That



























> is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education



























> makes? Or any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior



























> education that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are



























> completely illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high



























> school graduates, college graduates, etc. -- ?or is level of prior



























> education pretty much of a continuum?



























>



























>



























>



























> ?



























>



























>



























> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly



























> educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably students



























> with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower



























> level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by



























> definition) ?in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes



























> math. Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at



























> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be



























> desirable to place less highly educated students in separate classes from



























> those with more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for



























> them accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or



























> the Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these



























> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of



























> "bi-lingual education" that should be tried?



























>



























>



























>



























> ?



























>



























>



























> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the



























> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of



























> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large



























> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means),



























> ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very little education



























> in their native countries and too little money to serve them. ?So anyone



























> who has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a



























> lot by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.



























>



























>



























>



























> ?



























>



























>



























> Forrest Chisman



























>



























>



























> Vice President



























>



























>



























> CAAL



























>



























>



























> ?



























>



























>



























> ??



























>



























>



























> ?



























>



























>



























>



























>



























> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
<mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov?> ] On



























> Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu



























>



























> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM



























> To: The Assessment Discussion List



























> Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or



























> Comments?!



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























> ?



























>



























>



























>



























> Hi Jackie,



























>



























> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my



























> former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual education



























> in the K-12 school system.



























>



























>



























> Tina



























>



























> Tina Luffman



























> Coordinator, Developmental Education



























> Verde Valley Campus



























> 928-634-6544



























> tina_luffman at yc.edu



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























> "Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>



























>



























> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov



























>



























>



























> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























> Please respond to



























> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























> To



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























> cc



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























> Subject



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or ? ? ?



























> ?Comments?!



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























> ?



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























>



























> Hi Tina,



























>



























> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in



























> favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in



























>



























> the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation



























> in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second



























> or third language.



























>



























> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not



























> written.



























>



























>



























> Jackie



























>



























>



























> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:



























>



























>> Hi list members,



























>>



























>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to that



























>> of



























>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country



























>> they



























>



























>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather quickly



























>> and



























>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their country



























>> or



























>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much



























>



























>> advancement.



























>>



























>> This experience relates well to research done among Native American



























>> tribes



























>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught



























>> literacy



























>



























>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who



























>> tried



























>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their own



























>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The



























>



























>> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much



























>> easier



























>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this is



























>> something deserving more research.



























>



























>>



























>> Tina



























>> Tina Luffman



























>> Coordinator, Developmental Education



























>> Verde Valley Campus



























>> 928-634-6544



























>> tina_luffman at yc.edu



























>



























>>



























>> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----



























>>



























>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>



























>



























>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>



























>> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov



























>



























>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM



























>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or



























>> Comments?!



























>>



























>>



























>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed



























>



























>> Warning: (not named).



























>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more



























>> information.



























>>



























>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three



























>> years)



























>



























>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,



























>> particularly if



























>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at



























>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I



























>> would



























>



























>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a



























>> student



























>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because



























>> he/she



























>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try



























>> to



























>



























>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard



























>> concept



























>> in a second language.



























>>



























>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play



























>> a



























>



























>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned



























>> from



























>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than



























>> classes).



























>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.



























>> It's



























>



























>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL



























>> teachers.



























>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging



























>> me



























>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're



























>



























>> making some progress.



























>>



























>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?



























>>



























>> ________________________________



























>>



























>



























>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora



























>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM



























>



























>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov



























>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!



























>



























>>



























>>



























>> Hello everyone,



























>>



























>> I'm so surprised! ?No one has anything to comment on regarding your



























>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? ?I was very



























>



























>> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that



























>> Dr.



























>> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research: ?a lack of intensity



























>> of



























>> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities



























>> for



























>



























>> professional development.



























>>



























>> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL



























>> student



























>> from advancing? ?What do you try to do about that?



























>>



























>



























>> Please post your questions and comments now.



























>>



























>> Thanks!



























>>



























>> Marie Cora



























>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator



























>>



























>>



























>



























>> Marie Cora



























>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com



























>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
<mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com?> >



























>



























>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator



























>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment



























>



























>>



























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>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and



























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>> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are



























>> addressed.



























>> If you have received this email in error please notify the system



























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>> This message contains confidential information and is intended only for



























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>> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not



























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Professor, Education Department



























Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture



























Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual



























Education



























University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)



























1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250



























ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880



























email: crandall at umbc.edu



























www.umbc.edu/llc/



























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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

 

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

Professor and Director

Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program

Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education

University of Maryland Baltimore County

1000 Hilltop Circle

Baltimore, MD 21250

tel:  410-455-2313

fax: 410-455-8947

eml: crandall at umbc.edu

 

 

 

 

 

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From forrest at crosslink.net  Fri Feb  8 17:38:29 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:38:29 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1214] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE:
	No	QuestionsorComments?!
In-Reply-To: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870AD7F759@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
References: <4CA15A25-2C3D-42D0-BAF3-C0ED4E232D86@umbc.edu>
	<208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870AD7F759@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
Message-ID: <00b601c86aa3$56cda3b0$0468eb10$@net>

Jim,

 

Are they doing so at the same time? That?s quite a commitment/motivation if
they are. And it gives us YET ANOTHER example of how to use the Spanish GED.


 

Forrest

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Schneider, Jim
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 2:22 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1195] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No
QuestionsorComments?!

 

Most of our Spanish GED students are attending the ESL classes as well.

 

Jim

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 10:49 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1185] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No
QuestionsorComments?!

Jim, 

 

I think you've summarized how I feel as well.

 

We can discuss the various options with students, but in the end, if we
offer Spanish Literacy and Spanish GED, it's their choice.  Some will choose
to do everything in English and take longer to do it, but others will choose
to work in their own language.  For some students, the Spanish GED provides
short-term benefits.  But they will still need ESL for future academic or
vocational training, if they have limited English.

 

Have any programs tried to encourage students in Spanish Literacy or Spanish
GED to take ESL classes as well?

 

Jodi

 

 

 

 

On Feb 8, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Schneider, Jim wrote:





I feel compelled to put my two cents in on the Spanish GED. 

 

My experience is that both Andres and Ted have valid points. Here in Eastern
Iowa, there are few bilingual employers. Employers that are bilingual rarely
pay the best wages and are typically short of employees if there are any
signs of INS.  

 

On the other hand, many of the students who have completed the Spanish GED
are already employed, and have fairly decent English skills, but are short
on time. Attaining the GED provides them the opportunity for advancement at
work and/or access to postsecondary education/training. 

 

It has been excruciating watch the one or two who insist on the GED in
English get through the Literature and Writing portions of the test. 

 

And the difficulty of the new Spanish GED tests are such that it is a rare
student who can pass it. The old Spanish GED was attainable for most
learners who had a 6-8th grade education. We have found that it is virtually
impossible for anyone with less than a 10-11 grade education By simply
translating the English test into Spanish and then utilizing the standard
scores/norms of the English test, students who have passed it, have EARNED
their GED. 

 

Jim S.  

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Ted Klein
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 8:49 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1175] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
orComments?!

Andres,

 

I'm not too sure that some of your perspectives haven't been somewhat
altered by living in El Paso. I say that with total respect for El Paso and
for your answer. Let me explain. First, I've lived in Texas most of my life,
except for some time overseas. I know just about all of our border towns,
from El Paso to Brownsville. I've also lived in nine countries outside of
the United States and traveled perhaps in twenty more. AXIOM: All over the
world, border towns are different  from other towns. Persons, regardless of
ancestry,  who live in border towns anywhere tend to be bicultural and
bilingual. They also tend to identify with each other on close levels as
being a well-made "tossed salad." If most or all of your students plan to
stay in El Paso for the rest of their lives, I totally agree with what you
say. However, if they want to go to cities north of the border area; Dallas,
Ft. Worth, Austin, Houston, Waco, or out of state, then the picture changes.
I am almost as comfortable in Spanish as I am in English and have dealt with
persons from every country in Latin America comfortably and successfully, as
well as Spain. However, I do not represent anything close to a majority,
particularly when it comes to having a business. When persons go for job
interviews in non-border towns, being truly bilingual is a great asset and
can even result in higher pay and better opportunities. That is true for
Spanish speakers and English speakers. However, most of your persons who
have had to take the GED in Spanish are not truly bilingual. That's a fact
and when they go for a job interview, the human resources person doesn't
need paperwork to know that there may be communication problems with clients
and on the telephone. The fact is that life is short. However it is long
enough for persons to spend a couple of more years acquiring English if it
gives them more options in life. Again, if they plan to spend their lives in
a border town, this may not be a problem at all. 

 

Three years ago, my wife and I and one of our colleagues, took an ESL
teaching gig at a cookie factory in Austin. Quite a few of their employees
did not speak English and the company wanted to fix that situation. There
were 27 persons who had volunteered to take English classes at work, maybe
six hours a week. The first problem was how to determine divisions of 27
students among three teachers. I got out a brief "test" that I had used to
determine readiness for the ALCPT tests in the past.

 

Here is a copy:

 

ORAL INTERVIEW QUESTIONS TO DETERMINE ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE

                                                      Block 2
Ted Klein

Questions marked with an asterisk * are mandatory. Of the remaining
questions, ten should be selected at random. Speech of the interviewer will
be at normal speed and clarity, with NO exaggeration.

1. What is your name please?*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

2. Where are you from?* -------

3. What part of XXXXXXX are you from?-------

4. What is your native language? -------

5. How long have you been in America? -------

6. Do you read English?* -------

7. Did you study English in your country? -------

8. How long did you study English? -------

9. Are you enjoying the U.S.A? -------

10. What do you like here? -------

11. Is there anything that you don't like? -------

12. Have you studied any other languages besides English? -------

13. Why do you want to learn English? -------

14. How many years of education have you had? -------

15. Do you have any hobbies? What are they? -------

16. Do you have any American friends to practice English with? -------

17. Do you work?  Where? -------

18. What are your plans for the future? -------

19. Why did you come to America? -------

20. Do you have any questions for me? -------

Mark responses: 0 no answer.   0+ telegraphic/very simple response. 

1 simple, but complete response.  1+ functional and clear response.

2   somewhat elaborate, fairly clear and mostly grammatical response.

Interviewees with ten or more answers in the 1+ to 2 range should be ready
to take a written

proficiency test of listening and reading skills. Non-readers are excluded.
(ref: Ques. 6)

 

The three of us interviewed the 27 candidates together. 19 out of the 27
were not able to answer the second question: e.g. (Teacher) Where are you
from?

(Candidate) ?Mande?  (Teacher) Where are you from? ?Como?  (Teacher) Are you
from Mexico? (Candidate) M?xico, "jes." One answered, "M?xico, no, Peru s?."

 

The 8 students who were able to answer that question and maybe four or five
more questions were assigned to an "advanced class." The others were split
into two groups. What happened here? Many of these persons had lived in
Austin for some time. Some for up to ten years. Most had families. The
families naturally used Spanish at home, even their children who spoke
English at school. They had Spanish-speaking supervisors. They watched
television in Spanish. They ate at Mexican restaurants. They went to
Spanish-speaking doctors. 95% of their friends were Hispanic. In plain
language, if they wanted to stay at the cookie factory, making cookies, they
didn't need English, although the company preferred that they know English
for upward mobility. This program went on for three or four months.The
company merged and our program ended. We did not use Spanish in class. In
early training I use materials that I developed based on some of the old
"direct methods;" picture flashcards, Cuisenaire rods, etc. and we also
concentrated strongly on English sounds, particularly listening and
identification. The program went surprisingly well and many of the students
were very disappointed when it ended. They had already found some new places
to go and some were acquiring English-speaking friends.

 

So what is the good news? Several of our former students have entered the
Austin Community College AE program and are doing well. One of them is in my
class now. She has a child and often works at night at the cookie factory.
Sometimes she comes in looking very tired, but she's surviving. She wants to
be a Certified Nursing Assistant. She'll make it! She plans to take the GED
in English next year and enter the Nursing Program at ACC. Most of her
future patients will not be bilingual and she will be ready for them. 

 

That's about it.

 

Ted  

www.tedklein-ESL.com

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: andresmuro at aol.com 

To: assessment at nifl.gov 

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 12:02 PM

Subject: [Assessment 1153] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

 

Ted:

How would the employer know the language that Julian took the GED in?
In most states the certificate does not tell you the Language. Texas is one
of the few states that tells you the language. However, it is so hard to
find that most people wouldn't even know. I have a hard time finding the
language reference even though I have seen millions of certificates. Fact is
most employers don't even know that people can take the GED in anything
other than English, don't ask and do not scrutinize certificates to figure
out scores, language, etc. A few might, but the majority don't. For low
literacy Spanish speakers it may take them a couple of years to be ready to
take the GED in Spanish. It make take them 2 more years to be ready for the
English GED. Would you rather hold them two more years. They can take the
GED in Spanish and continue to study English. Once they have sufficient
English, they can decide if they want to take it in English or to move on to
other things.

Andres

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Klein <taklein at austin.rr.com>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 6:58 am
Subject: [Assessment 1150] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

Jodi and Andres,

 

There is one very real problem with taking the GED in Spanish that I'm aware
of. If you have two immigrants, Roberto and Ju?n, and they both apply for
the same job and if Ju?n took the GED in Spanish and Roberto took it in
English, guess who gets the job?

Yes, life isn't fair, but most U.S. businesses prefer persons who have gone
"all the way" with English. My students and I have discussed this and they
have seen or know of this situation with their friends and family members.
That is why many AE students remain longer in our ESL classes. Of course in
many border towns, this may not be as important since many of the employers
are Hispanic or are native speakers of English who are functional in
Spanish. However, many customers of the businesses will need to use English.


 

In my current class in Austin, Texas with eleven students, five different
languages are spoken. Should we offer the GED in Arabic, Chinese, Korean,
and Juba as well as Spanish?

 

 

Ted

www.tedklein-ESL.com 

 

 

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: andresmuro at aol.com 

To: crandall at umbc.edu ; assessment at nifl.gov 

Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 5:21 PM

Subject: [Assessment 1146] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

 

Jodi:

The credit ESL program in the college is very academic. However it provides
students with financial aid and other goodies. We feel that the students
will not do well in a credit academic ESL program until they have a level
comparable to GED in their native language. Also, a GED certificate is a way
to demonstrate ability to benefit to qualify for financial aid. Those
students who get into the credit ESL program without native language
literacy don't do well. 

Students can attend other ESL classes in the community while they are
attending our classes. We stopped providing ESL because of limited funding
to provide what we would consider meaningful ESL. Also, our Spanish GED
program is fairly intensive and our students would not have enough time to
attend an additional program. We have a few students who may be attending
our classes and an ESL class concurrently. Those are a minority

The truth is that we started as an ESL literacy program many years ago.
There was virtually no funding for  literacy ESL unless it  had all kind of
testing requirements. Also, it is very hard to train teachers to be really
good at ESL. The system that encourages large number of untrained part
timers prevents this from happening. 

I know that a lot of people in these listservs claim exemplary service and
illustrate  with examples of what they have done. I don't doubt that  their
claims are 100% true. However,  we are in the minority. If I could get you
and Heide and Elsa and Andy Nash and Leonore and Deborah Schwartz, and Anson
Green and Federico and others to be my ESL teachers, I would have the best
program in the world. However, the fact is that in addition to the barriers
that ESL students face in their daily lives, plus the bureaucratic and
assessment barriers that the system creates for teachers and students, plus
the difficulty hiring and retaining highly qualified ESL staff makes it very
difficult to have a successful ESL program. 

I feel that until we get rid of WIA/NRS it will be tough to create good
stuff in a systematic way. 

Andres



 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 1:27 pm
Subject: [Assessment 1141] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

Andres,



























It is great that you provide Spanish language literacy and GED classes for













your students.  There's no question that native language literacy













contributes not just to the development of the first language, but also to













English language development when students take oral ESL classes.  There













is some research in this area by Michele Burtoff with Haitians in the U.S.













and there is a lot of research (see especially research by David Ramirez













which compares children who had 6, 3 or no years of bilingual education)













that shows that providing bilingual education not only has all the













benefits that would be expected, but students also achieve in English as













well or better than those who only had instruction in English.



























We also found that Spanish GED classes had large numbers of students at













the colleges, since students who take the GED in Spanish are able to













bypass the need for extensive ESL just to get this credential.  They might













want to take ESL as well, but the desire for the GED is often for













work-related reasons.  I'm not clear on why you ask students to wait until













after they have passed the GED to take ESL classes.  Can you tell us a













little more about that?



























Of course not all students who enroll in adult ESL are Spanish speakers













and there may not be enough who speak any language to provide literacy













classes for them in their own language, but programs might try to partner













with immigrant or refugee-related community-based organizations which













could reach more students and also identify someone to provide the













instruction.  Still, there will  be students who will not be able to take













literacy classes in their own languages and for them, a separate ESL













literacy class seems to be the best option.



























It would be great to hear from others about their experiences both with













first language (Spanish and other languages) literacy classes, Spanish GED













classes, and literacy ESL classes.



























How do you place students in your literacy classes?  Do you use a













standardized test or do you have informal ways of determining if someone













would be better served in a literacy ESL class?









































Jodi



























>













>  Problem is that in many ESL people are placed in ESL classes based on an













> English placement multiple choice test. A student with advanced education













> in L1 and one with little education in L1 may know very little English













> and they may both be placed in the same level. The student with advance













> education will progress much faster than the one with little education.













> The advanced L1 student will understand concepts like sentence,













> paragraph, verb, subject, direct object, adjective, composition and essay













> readily. The one with with little education will need to understand these













> concepts. It takes a while for people to master these concepts. A highly













> educated L2? learner will likely progress faster academically in a second













> language than a fluent native speaker of that? language with limited













> academic education, for the same reason. This is observed regularly in













> universities all over the US. highly educated foreign students who













> acquired English as L2 recently will do better than their Eng













>  lish speaking counterparts in academic tasks in English. Jim Cummins has













> articulated this clearly with his BICS and CALPS.













>













> In our program at El Paso Community College we have found evidence of













> this. We stopped doing literacy ESL a while back for this reason. The













> college has an academic ESL program. Instead of doing ESL literacy we













> started offering Spanish Literacy and GED many years ago since the vast













> majority of our students are Spanish speakers. Once our students acquire













> their Spanish GED they transition into the ESL program and do better than













> those students who don't have L1 academic skills. Even if takes them a













> while to acquire the L1 literacy, they will do better. Those with no L1













> literacy often stay in ESL forever and they drop out, start again in













> another program, drop out and continue the same pattern. I think that this













> happens because of the mixture of academically ready students and those













> that are not ready, since most ESL programs focus on traditional













> academics. For L1 low literacy students to be able to progress in L2 there













> has to be a program specifically designed for them that teache













>  s skills in L2 in new and innovative ways without interference from













> academically skilled L1 students. Right now we don't have a system that













> systematically does this, and the WIA/NRS system prevents this form













> happening.













>













> Hope that this makes sense,













>













> Andres













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> -----Original Message-----













> From: Jackie Coelho <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>













> To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>













> Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 5:01 am













> Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or













> Comments?!













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> Forrest,













>













>













> ?? I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy













> background and those without. These two groups have such different needs.













> Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs













> of either group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate













> the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor













> does not keep up with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they













> often become frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the













> instructor keeps up with those students, the others are unable to keep up













> and they get frustrated.













>













>













>













> ? I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of













> how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.













>













>













> Jackie













>













> ?













>













>













> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in













> student performance:













>













>













> ?













>













>













> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly













> educated students do better in terms of ?persistence, learning gains, and













> transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably













> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education













> makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of













> their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That













> is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education













> makes? Or any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior













> education that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are













> completely illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high













> school graduates, college graduates, etc. -- ?or is level of prior













> education pretty much of a continuum?













>













>













>













> ?













>













>













> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly













> educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably students













> with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower













> level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by













> definition) ?in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes













> math. Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at













> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be













> desirable to place less highly educated students in separate classes from













> those with more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for













> them accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or













> the Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these













> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of













> "bi-lingual education" that should be tried?













>













>













>













> ?













>













>













> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the













> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of













> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large













> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means),













> ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very little education













> in their native countries and too little money to serve them. ?So anyone













> who has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a













> lot by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.













>













>













>













> ?













>













>













> Forrest Chisman













>













>













> Vice President













>













>













> CAAL













>













>













> ?













>













>













> ??













>













>













> ?













>













>













>













>













> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
<mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov?> ] On













> Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu













>













> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM













> To: The Assessment Discussion List













> Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or













> Comments?!













>













>













>













>













>













>













> ?













>













>













>













> Hi Jackie,













>













> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my













> former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual education













> in the K-12 school system.













>













>













> Tina













>













> Tina Luffman













> Coordinator, Developmental Education













> Verde Valley Campus













> 928-634-6544













> tina_luffman at yc.edu













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> "Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>













>













> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov













>













>













> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> Please respond to













> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> To













>













>













>













>













>













> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> cc













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> Subject













>













>













>













>













>













> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or ? ? ?













> ?Comments?!













>













>













>













>













>













>













> ?













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> Hi Tina,













>













> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in













> favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in













>













> the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation













> in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second













> or third language.













>













> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not













> written.













>













>













> Jackie













>













>













> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:













>













>> Hi list members,













>>













>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to that













>> of













>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country













>> they













>













>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather quickly













>> and













>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their country













>> or













>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much













>













>> advancement.













>>













>> This experience relates well to research done among Native American













>> tribes













>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught













>> literacy













>













>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who













>> tried













>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their own













>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The













>













>> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much













>> easier













>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this is













>> something deserving more research.













>













>>













>> Tina













>> Tina Luffman













>> Coordinator, Developmental Education













>> Verde Valley Campus













>> 928-634-6544













>> tina_luffman at yc.edu













>













>>













>> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----













>>













>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>













>













>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>













>> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov













>













>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM













>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or













>> Comments?!













>>













>>













>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed













>













>> Warning: (not named).













>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more













>> information.













>>













>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three













>> years)













>













>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,













>> particularly if













>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at













>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I













>> would













>













>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a













>> student













>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because













>> he/she













>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try













>> to













>













>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard













>> concept













>> in a second language.













>>













>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play













>> a













>













>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned













>> from













>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than













>> classes).













>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.













>> It's













>













>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL













>> teachers.













>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging













>> me













>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're













>













>> making some progress.













>>













>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?













>>













>> ________________________________













>>













>













>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora













>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM













>













>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov













>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!













>













>>













>>













>> Hello everyone,













>>













>> I'm so surprised! ?No one has anything to comment on regarding your













>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? ?I was very













>













>> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that













>> Dr.













>> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research: ?a lack of intensity













>> of













>> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities













>> for













>













>> professional development.













>>













>> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL













>> student













>> from advancing? ?What do you try to do about that?













>>













>













>> Please post your questions and comments now.













>>













>> Thanks!













>>













>> Marie Cora













>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator













>>













>>













>













>> Marie Cora













>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com













>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
<mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com?> >













>













>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator













>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment













>













>>













>>













>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and













>> intended













>> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are













>> addressed.













>> If you have received this email in error please notify the system













>> manager.













>













>> This message contains confidential information and is intended only for













>> the













>> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not













>> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.













>













>> -------------------------------













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-- 













JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall













Professor, Education Department













Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture













Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual













Education













University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)













1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250













ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880













email: crandall at umbc.edu













www.umbc.edu/llc/













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Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

 

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

Professor and Director

Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program

Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education

University of Maryland Baltimore County

1000 Hilltop Circle

Baltimore, MD 21250

tel:  410-455-2313

fax: 410-455-8947

eml: crandall at umbc.edu

 

 





 

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From forrest at crosslink.net  Fri Feb  8 17:46:34 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:46:34 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1215] Re: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B3F@exchr.raritanval.edu>
References: <CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B2E@exchr.raritanval.edu>	<007201c86a04$26b41a50$741c4ef0$@net>	<CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B3C@exchr.raritanval.edu>	<001f01c86a69$364ee6b0$a2ecb410$@net>	<4BF38AF2-AB8B-4E41-A30B-388D328E41BF@umbc.edu>
	<CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B3F@exchr.raritanval.edu>
Message-ID: <00bb01c86aa4$7798e9f0$66cabdd0$@net>

Jim,

 

Fascinating and important information, as always. If this wasn't the last
day, I'd ask others whether they find Generation 1.5 students do better in
Developmental Education. I've heard different versions  of this story, and
in some colleges they are steered away from developmental education. Heck,
I'll ask anyway. Or maybe your Phd. Dissertation provides the answer. Does
it? If so, what did you find?

 

Forrest   

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 12:53 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List; The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1189] Re: (no subject)

 

Jodi,

 

We have a small but probably growing group of Generation 1.5 students (I
wrote a dissertation on Generation 1.5 students for my PhD from NYU -
completed in late 2005). Some Gen. 1.5 students do take some ESL while
others end up going the developmental studies route. Largely this depends on
how resistant they are to ESL. We simply can't force somebody to be
motivated for something they do not think they need. We find they are much
more excited by developmental coursework than by ESL - and we feel that they
are more likely to be successful there. I should add that the Generation 1.5
students I see at RVCC are not as severely underdeveloped in terms of
academic skills as Gen. 1.5 students in somewhat more urban locations. As so
many discover, there are no magical answers. This is where I gnash my teeth
at the lack of cooperation between high schools and colleges. I feel
cooperation could mitigate the rather devastating effect of being told in
college that your English is not at all what is expected for academic
success.

 

We do have some international students and a fairly significant number of au
pairs who are working for the many wealthy families that live in this part
of New Jersey. 

 

Our ESL is all credit (unfortunately all but the highest level of
reading/writing is credit in name only; it doesn't count towards a degree
but is called credit for billing purposes - similar to developmental reading
and math courses for native speaking students). Fortunately, we did convince
the college to award 6 real credits for the highest level reading/writing
course which can count towards RVCC graduation only as a general elective. 

 

 

Kevin

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Fri 2/8/2008 11:39 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1184] Re: (no subject)

Kevin, 

 

Are many of your students what we now refer to as generation 1.5 students?
They have had much or most of their education in this country, but may still
need extensive help with academic English, especially in writing?

 

If so, are there any special things that you have tried to help this
population?

 

Do you also have international students?

 

Joy Reid has written extensively about "ear" learners (generation 1.5
learners would likely be here) and "eye" learners and how their needs are so
different.  Ear learners are those who were immersed in an English-speaking
environment and have learned their English orally.  As you suggest, they
have strong Basic Interpersonal Communication Skills or social language, but
may not have developed the academic language required for success in the
community college.  Eye learners are just the opposite: they have learned
English through books and lack the fluency of ear learners, but are more
likely to have more standard English  While these two groups share some
common needs, they are also very different in others.  It's a real
challenge.  Getting these ear learners prepared for the college is something
that lots of people are talking and writing about.

 

There is also the problem with the first group that they speak English and
often are offended when told they need more English, especially when it's
ESL!

 

In effect you are teaching only credit ESL, is that right?  Are there
linkages with any of the programs in the community that are teaching lower
level ESL?

 

Jodi  

On Feb 8, 2008, at 10:42 AM, Forrest Chisman wrote:





Kevin,

 

Thanks for the explanation. I find it VERY useful. It's a very interesting
model. I'm not surprised that your students are motivated for college,
because they've signed up for a college prep track! What worries me are the
limited aspirations of many lower level ESL students who may have college
potential. 

 

I understand now why you don't have the resources to operate a more
comprehensive program. I've heard an increasing number of stories about
areas were the LEA runs the federal/state  adult education ESL grant program
and has asked the local college to take it over (because the LEA has
concluded it's an "adult" program). Have there been any rumblings of that in
your area?

 

Best of luck in your good work.

 

Forrest    

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 9:42 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List; The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1174] Re: (no subject)

 

I believe we do have a hard time getting enough students fed into our
program and with the appropriate background to succeed if they do come to
us. It is a real problem. There are some workplace ESL programs which are
run through our Corporate and Continuing Education Office, but those
students rarely, if ever, come to us. And they serve the employees of
specific companies as opposed to the community at large. 

 

Our ESL program is within an academic department in the college
(Communication and Languages) and so is run like every other. ESL students
pay the same tuition and fees as all other students at the college. We do
not receive special government funding beyond what the state and counties
provide for the college as a whole as a part of our yearly budget.

 

Finances are probably a big reason why we are getting fewer students at the
low levels. Community programs are free or low cost; although in the scheme
of higher education, the community college is less expensive, it may still
be out of reach of many students. 

 

In terms of having a more comprehensive program, we are limited by a small
staff, and the unlikelihood of being able to expand given college budgeting
restraints. In addition, our three full-time faculty members (including
myself) not only teach 15 credit hours per semester but also do the
administrative work required. We do advising, scheduling, and the many other
tasks associate with keeping the program afloat. The only "official"
administrative support for the program is through the 3 hours of overload I
receive to serve as Adjunct Coordinator. 

 

The belief that they can attend college does not seem to be a problem with
our population although I can certainly see that it could be. A growing
problem for us (and many around the country) is the disconnect between high
schools and colleges in terms of student preparation. Either the high
schools do not think the students are college-bound and so don't bother to
give them a college-prep course of study, or there is simply a growing gap
between the expectations of each. Additionally, students seem to think that
a high school diploma equates to college readiness.

 

We do our best to advise students, but we don't always have enough time -
and as professors primarily - may not know ourselves what all of the options
for students are. 

 

Kevin 

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 10:38 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1172] Re: (no subject)

Dear Kevin,

 

Many thanks for providing all of us with a profile of your program. Seeing
the variety of college program goals and designs is extremely valuable in
stimulating ideas about how to do a better job in delivering ESL.

 

Personally, I think that it is perfectly valid for colleges to elect to
offer solely pre-academic ESL at the non-credit level. But it does prompt
the concern about whether other programs in the college's service area are
providing non-academic ESL to large enough numbers of students and at a high
enough quality to "feed" the college program - as well as how well their
efforts articulate with yours. I wonder whether this troubles you, and if so
whether/how you have addressed the issue.  Frankly, I think one reason why
many colleges offer comprehensive ESL programs is that they would prefer to
"make" pre-academic students themselves, rather than rely on others to do
it. Another reason, of course, if that they may not be eligible for
federal/state grant money unless they offer comprehensive programs. Does
your college receive these funds to support its pre-academic program? If
not, how is it supported financially?

 

I heartily agree that helping students set realistic goals and understand
their options is essential. I believe, however, that encouraging students to
expand their goals as they succeed is also essential. For example, many
immigrants come from countries where going to college is the privilege of
very few, and thus may consider that an unrealistic goal  unless they are
encouraged to take the steps necessary (often one step at a time). The
problem seems to be that it is hard for most programs to find the resources
to provide very much guidance of any of these kinds to most students. I
wonder if anyone has any solutions to THAT issue. 

 

In any event, many thanks for fleshing out an interesting model.  

 

Forrest     

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:19 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1148] (no subject)

 

Hi All,

 

I have been reading most of the discussion comments and wanted to address a
few issues. First, however, I'll give a summary of our program. 

 

I teach ESL at Raritan Valley Community College in New Jersey. Our program
serves approximately 350 students from diverse language backgrounds. Our
program offers two pre-academic levels of all skills ESL instruction (a six
hour per week non-credit class). In addition, we have 5 levels of academic
ESL preparation divided into three courses - Reading/Writing, Grammar, and
Speaking/Listening). Our highest level Reading/Writing course gives
successful students 6 elective credits that count towards RVCC graduation,
but those credits do not transfer. Our semesters are 15 weeks. If a student
misses 20% of any class, the instructor may withdraw that student (they are
not, however, obliged to withdraw these students). At the moment, the late
enrollment policy is that students may register for a course prior to the
second week of class but not thereafter. Research, of course, indicates that
students who begin a class late have a much higher rate of failure than
those who begin on time. 

 

In our program, we have three full-time faculty and approximately 16-18
adjuncts. 

 

We have focused our program on academic prep ESL because we are a small
program with limited resources, and we have a very difficult time finding
qualified adjuncts. Also, a significant majority of our students have
signalled their intention to obtain a college degree. Moreover, there are
community programs that offer basic English skills although there is often a
long waiting list to obtain the services. In other issues, we use the
Accuplacer ESL test for placement and have in-house standardized tests at
the end of each level of grammar and reading/writing

 

Within our classes, highly educated non-native speakers usually progress
much more quickly. One of the most challenging groups is students who
graduated from local high schools but still have inadequate English skills -
and not infrequently, weak academic skills in general. One of the strategies
that I would personally wish for is real communication between K-12 and
community colleges so that students get the language skills they need before
they enter college. I understand that there is great pressure to move
students out of ESL in many school districts, but ultimately, it does a huge
disservice both financially and in terms of motivation to students whose
skills remain more BICS than CALP. 

 

I agree with those who suggest that first language literacy issues should be
addressed before students enter ESL. However, it becomes complicated to find
funding and support for such efforts. In my experience, students with low
level literacy skills become frustrated and are not ultimately successful -
probably by any definition. I am uncomfortable with the idea that they are
spending hard-earned money when the chances for success in ESL are minimal.
We advise students that the program is academically-oriented; often they
have little understanding of what that means. 

 

I do not agree with the suggestion that the bar be lowered so that students
with low-intermediate skills be allowed in credit classes (at least at my
college). Historically, other faculty have little experience handling
language issues and are very unhappy when students cannot read, write and
converse at an appropriate level of English. They end up feeling helpless.
Students may pass classes; however, I suspect that instructors do not want
to deal with the challenges and so turn a blind eye and let them through.
Recently, there has been a problem in the nursing department with non-native
English speaking students not passing board exams because they enter the
college from other programs and circumvent ESL with us. They have trouble
reading and answering questions on the exam. This is a significant problem
because nursing programs are judged in terms of the success of their
students on these standardized exams. 

 

I think the measure of success should be based on a realistic assessment of
student goals combined with a real-life discussion of the possibilities and
limitations. Ideally, students would have incremental goals so that success
could build. If the goals for students with low literacy levels are not
carefully discussed and planned, then they will likely encounter more
failure than success because their expectaions will be unrealistic. The more
we have the opportunity to talk to students, the more likely it is that they
can develop short-term goals that are within their reach. Unfortunately, we
have no control over the myriad of complications that accrue in their every
day lives. 

 

Apologies for the length.

 

Kevin Hinkle, Ph.D.

Assistant Professor of ESL/Adjunct Coordinator

-------------------------------

National Institute for Literacy

Assessment mailing list

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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

 

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

Professor and Director

Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program

Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education

University of Maryland Baltimore County

1000 Hilltop Circle

Baltimore, MD 21250

tel:  410-455-2313

fax: 410-455-8947

eml: crandall at umbc.edu

 

 





 

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From mueland at cal.org  Fri Feb  8 18:04:45 2008
From: mueland at cal.org (Michelle Ueland)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 18:04:45 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1216] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F02F33CDE@MAIL.cal.local>
References: <C3CE4BCC.8F31%usha_narayanan@fuhsd.org><52294.130.85.83.224.1202268183.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><001e01c868c8$49636de0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75><49507.130.85.83.224.1202328350.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><007e01c86927$0ca72220$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75><50639.138.88.30.77.1202391909.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><001801c869b3$01219660$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75><9A537A75-618C-402D-8F6E-EDEA8C0DF840@umbc.edu><7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F02F33CB7@MAIL.cal.local><63733377F5D386419FE59FCB038725EF0B544FEE@EXCHANGE.njdol.ad.dol><80D4960C-669A-4203-91B3-DE3C34200D93@umbc.edu>
	<7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F02F33CDE@MAIL.cal.local>
Message-ID: <7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F02F33CEB@MAIL.cal.local>

 
Marie, There was a key word left out of my message below: "currently there are  no  initiatives that we are aware of for funding this type of test development within the Department of Education Office of Vocational and Adult Education" although, like many others, I wish there were funding to fill these need. Sorry for the unintended confusion on Friday afternoon. Michelle


	Dear Listserv Members,

	 

	Greetings!

	 

	I'm so glad that there are so many people and programs interested in the Center for Applied Linguistics and our adult ESL assessments.

	 

	Regarding the nomenclature, the original BEST tests (oral interview and literacy skills sections) have changed since their original development in the 1980's yet many of us still continue to refer to them affectionately as the BEST tests. The BEST oral interview has been replaced by BEST Plus which is much more comprehensive and covers SPL levels 0 - 10 and NRS levels 1 - 6.  Furthermore, BEST literacy skills section has been updated and renamed BEST Literacy. It is currently available in three forms (B, C, and D) and there is a new Test Manual to accompany the updated tests. Although we are cognizant of the need for a higher level reading and writing test, currently there are  no  initiatives that we are aware of for funding this type of test development within the Department of Education Office of Vocational and Adult Education. 

	 

	I would encourage anyone on this discussion list who is interested in assessment issues to begin by reviewing their state assessment policy to determine which assessments - of those approved for use by NRS at federally and state-funded adult ESL programs - are also on their state's list. If BEST Plus, BEST Literacy, BEST oral or literacy skills sections are listed, or if anyone would like more information about CAL's assessments, check out CAL's website at: www.cal.org <http://www.cal.org/>  or the BEST Plus website at:  www.cal.org/bestplus/ <http://www.cal.org/bestplus/>  

	 

	In many states there have been and continue to be numerous training opportunities. For example, in New Jersey the New Jersey Department of Labor regularly schedules BEST Plus training in different areas of the state. If anyone would like further information about the updates to BEST Literacy or about the two forms of BEST Plus (computer adaptive and print-based), the adult ESL assessments team at CAL is happy to provide information and continue to clarify any questions you may have off line. Please contact us directly at: 1-866-845-2378 (toll free) or at aea at cal.org <mailto:aea at cal.org>  

	 

	 

	Sincerely,

	 

	Michelle Ueland

	Adult ESL Assessments

	Center for Applied Linguistics


________________________________

		From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
		Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 8:25 PM
		To: The Assessment Discussion List
		Subject: [Assessment 1166] Re: Observation checklist
		
		
		Michelle and others, 

		Thanks so much.  We will all benefit from the clear explanation of the BEST Plus.

		It's good to hear from some of you who are using the test as well.

		Michelle, can you tell us if there are any plans for developing a comparable reading and writing test for adult ESL learners?

		Jodi 


		On Feb 7, 2008, at 4:25 PM, Cohen, Jonathan wrote:


			Good reply.

			Jon

			
			 

			Jonathan Cohen

			Workforce Readiness & Literacy

			NJ Dept. of Labor & Workforce Development 

			
			 
			
________________________________


			From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Michelle Ueland
			Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 4:10 PM
			To: The Assessment Discussion List
			Subject: [Assessment 1158] Re: Observation checklist

			
			 
			
			 

			Dear Assessment Listserv Members,

			It is with great interest that we have been following this discussion regarding one of our assessments, BEST Plus, and its use for oral proficiency meaurement on initial placement and learner progress. 

			As other assessments have been brought into the discussion, we would like to provide the following clarification, taken verbatim from the DLIELC Website: http://www.dlielc.org/testing/ALCPT.html <http://www.dlielc.org/testing/ALCPT.html>  : "DLIELC conducts English language proficiency testing using the Oral Proficiency Interview (OPI) <outbind://86/opi_test.html> , a face-to-face or telephonic interview, and the English Comprehension Level (ECL) <outbind://86/ecl_test.html> test, a multiple choice test of listening and reading comprehension. (The ECL test is provided to authorized US Government users only.) DLIELC also makes available the American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT) <outbind://86/ALCPT.html>  for English language programs conducted outside of DLIELC. Achievement testing of American Language Course (ALC) objectives is conducted using book quizzes and performance tests, which can be obtained with the course materials." 

			According to the April 2007 edition of the Handbook for the American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT): "The most important consideration under the general topic of test security is test compromise. One of the easiest ways to compromise any test is through its inappropriate use." Given the definitions above, there are many reasons to question the appropriateness of using any of the above mentioned tests with the adult ESL population in the U.S.

			Currently, BEST Plus is the only assessment developed specifically for use with adult English language learners in educational programs, which simultaneously measures adults' listening and speaking skills. As the BEST Plus Level Gain study shows ( http://www.cal.org/resources/digest/levelgain.html ), more hours equals more gains, whether that be during one academic year (intensity of instruction) or over an adult's lifetime (persistence as a learner). Furthermore, this study also shows that not only is BEST Plus appropriate for initial placement, but it is also a good measure of student progress. In many ways, BEST Plus brings the knowledge and design of other oral proficiency instruments to the field of adult ESL in a highly accessible manner. Test administrations are relatively inexpensive when compared to the high cost of other oral proficiency assessments, the results accurate and immediate, and for the first time, instructors are able to confirm many of their "gut instinct" and "handshake" evaluations based on their expertise and familiarity with the adult ESL population in a standardized manner that is scored by a common rubric.

			In regard to test administrator training, another advantage to BEST Plus is that ESL instructors are able to engage in professional development in the area of proficiency assessment. Across the country, responses to BEST Plus training are overwhelmingly positive. Our core of trainers does fantastic work to educate practitioners about the differences between being a good teacher and being a good standardized test administrator, in addition to training test administrators to administer and score BEST Plus. Furthermore, there are several opportunities for previously trained test administrators to recalibrate their scoring accuracy through the use of the Scoring Refresher Toolkit within their local programs and states. In this way, programs can confirm their inter-rater reliability, as CAL has also done during the development and design of BEST Plus. We would encourage anyone interested in finding out more about the design of BEST Plus and its high rate of inter-rater reliability to read the BEST Plus Technical Manual.

			Finally, we hope that programs using BEST Plus continue to see the benefits of providing adults ESL learners with data regarding their oral proficiency level and progress. Particularly adults with many commitments need this type of information offered at their convenience locally by their service providers. By knowing their levels, program directors and instructors can to continue to make instructional and programatic decisions based on learner needs and to assist the learners in their own educational goal setting.

			Michelle M. Ueland

			Adult ESL Assessments

			Center for Applied Linguistics

				
				 
				
________________________________


				From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
				Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:27 PM
				To: The Assessment Discussion List
				Subject: [Assessment 1157] Re: Observation checklist

				Ted and all, 

				
				 

				I imagine others would like to have access to the ALCPT information as well.

				
				 

				I have also given the OPI, not as a certified interviewer but with a lot of training in its use.  I use it  as part of information gathering in reviewing programs overseas, to see what various levels of instruction correspond to in proficiency terms. I haven't used it with adult ESL population.  Like Mary Margaret, I have found that it takes about the same amount of time.  

				
				 

				Do others have the same concerns about the BEST Plus?

				
				 

				Jodi

				
				 

				On Feb 7, 2008, at 12:58 PM, Ted Klein wrote:

					Jodi,

					
					 

					My wife, Mary Margaret, was a certified OPI interviewer at DLI. She says that the average interview was 20 minutes. This depends on the interviewee's level. Two people interview. The higher the level, the longer the test. It's a really good test. The bad news is that there is/was something like a 40% failure rate for certification of interviewer among instructors and staff. Some of these people were pretty sharp, but doing it is an art and a science. There is no question the OPI is the state-of-the-art. Even experienced interviewers get frequent tune-ups. I believe that the OPI scoring system with the + indicating 60% of the next higher level COULD be simplified and adapted to adult education. However, if progress has to be shown as often as now, real proficiency doesn't change that fast and could cost programs $ when they submit their paperwork.  IF it were done after maybe 120 class hours, there may be significant changes.

					
					 

					Although I got the training, I bribe other people to do the BEST Plus on my students, including Mary Margaret! I think that it's fine for placement, but really doesn't work for "progress" for a number of reasons. Even when people are trained to use it properly, there is enormous difference, even in how the interviewers expresses themselves orally and make scores. If we have to continue using the BEST tests, another thing that I would like to see is small teams of really good and consistent interviewers that do the tests on all of the students. A weak measurement system is the Achilles Heel in Adult Education.

					
					 

					I would prefer the use of the American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT). If you will give me an e-mail address that is convenient, I will send you more information on it from my old workshops. It's cheaper, quicker, and quite accurate. I totally agree with you that teacher wisdom is also a good way to determine where and when the student should move on. Unfortunately, many managers don't trust the peasants! There are also several good ways to place people that don't involve their ability to read the ALCPT.

					
					 

					I put out an Adult Education/ESL Newsletter once in a while. I recently did an article on the OPI, which may answer more of the questions. Here it is:

					
					 
					
					 

					Adult Education/ESL News Letter; the Federal Oral Proficiency Interview   Jan. 8, 2008    Ted Klein

					
					 

					For many years the Foreign Service Institute (FSI) of the United States conducted interviews of foreign language proficiency to measure the understanding and production of languages acquired by their staff. This test was also used by some other federal agencies and was adapted by some civilian language programs as a measure of their graduates. This test expressed performance using scores ranging from zero to five. For decades it was the best game in town. The problem is that both the interview techniques and scoring systems in the FSI exam were not as objective as needed for some persons, whose jobs required very specific scores that would be important to accomplishment of their missions.

					
					 

					Language proficiency testing needs have always depended on the terminal objectives of the students. In most cases, a well-designed comprehension test is adequate and may be used for language class placement, graduation criteria, determination of readiness for certain jobs, training, or education, etc. During my twenty years with the Defense Language Institute English Language Center, all students were tested with the English Comprehension Level (ECL) test, which was developed as an overall measure of listening and reading skills. This test was developed and maintained by individuals whose primary expertise was in valid measurement procedures assisted by a team of persons who developed multiple choice test items that were based more on their language expertise than math. Scores were in a sense arbitrary and didn't represent a "percentage" of anything. However the use of an ECL test to determine readiness for international military personnel from many countries to participate in U.S.military training was considered a very reliable source of measuring English-language readiness. The test measured listening and reading skills and was "loaded" with numerous structural, vocabulary and phonological factors. It was multiple choice and could be administered in an hour to a large group of students. Students went on from DLIELC for training as pilots, staff college attendees, electronics specialists, medical personnel, etc. and enjoyed a very low failure rate due to language factors. Often, the comprehension scores tended to reflect competence in spoken English, because most of these students had acquired English in a balanced environment of listening, speaking, reading and writing skills. The DLIELC program itself was fairly uniform in which all American Language Course materials were systematically provided for specific lengths of time to teaching staff trained to use specific methodologies. DLIELC students normally start their training in their home countries and later go to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio to finish general English when their ECL scores meet predetermined criteria to continue to continue on to study specialized terminology.

					
					 

					In the 1980's a gentleman from the Central Intelligence Agency was tasked with the production of a more objective oral language measurement system than the FSI exam, with truly meaningful scores and criteria. He accomplished that mission and the new Oral Proficiency Interview (OPI) examination was designed. That's the good news! The bad news is that it is both an art and a science to administer. A copy of the criteria and rating factors is below. It can be found at the DLIELC website at http://www.dlielc.org/testing/opi_profile.html <http://www.dlielc.org/testing/opi_profile.html>   This OPI took care of the majority of the problems with the older FSI exam, including a very tight and variable interview system in which persons were taken to their highest level of oral communication. Both listening and speaking skills receive a score. The chart below reflects whole number judgments with a performance-based description of what the person being tested can do with the language. The problem is that even after two weeks of training persons to administer the test, there is a rather high failure rate among tester candidates. At one time potential interviewer failures rates were as high as 40%. Tests are administered by pairs of persons who have to agree on a score. I have seen persons with graduate degrees in linguistics fail to become certified interviewers and persons with much less technical expertise succeed and become very competent certified interviewers. The OPI is now used in numerous programs throughout the military, intelligence and diplomatic communities. It is NOT used in place of other valid testing instruments. It is reserved as a supplement for persons in which a known language production level is required. This may include persons who will be air traffic controllers or pilots in which verbal communication skills can be critical.

					
					 

					The ROTC programs at the University of Puerto Rico require OPI scores for their cadets who become officers in the U.S. military establishment. They also have required ECL scores, and candidates must also be verbally competent in spoken English to get their commissions and succeed in adequate communication for their jobs in the military. The required score to enroll in the ROTC program is an ECL of 75 and an OPI score of 2/1+. One year later the required ECL score is 80 with a 2/2 OPI. To be commissioned in the  U.S. Military the required ECL is 90 and the required OPI is 2+/2. The first number (2+) reflects listening comprehension and the second number reflects speaking ability. When we include the + (plus) designation, this means that the candidate performs at the next higher level at least 60% of the time. Therefore, if we go from 0 (no competence) to five (educated native speaker competence) there are eleven possible levels including the pluses. The difficult part for most interviewers is reaching the candidates' real levels, measuring objectively, and having each interview so different from the last one that the possibility of compromise through information sharing is very unlikely. An ECL score of 90 is equivalent to a TOEFL score of 550, which is adequate for an international student to get into many American universities. The American Language Course Proficiency Test (ALCPT) is made from expired ECL tests and can be made available to civilian institutions.

					
					 

					Why am I telling you about all of this? I was in management work at DLIELC when the OPI system was introduced and never had reason to become a certified interviewer. However, what I find exciting is that the OPI Rating Factor Grid below describes the natural sequence in which our ESL students acquire English. It is a recapitulation of the entire never-ending process of getting a new language. I'm guessing that average competent foreign language majors in a good university would graduate with a 3/3 OPI score in their target languages. The numbers in the OPI can only hint at how long and complicated a process we have to go through to really be truly functional in a second language. For travelling or living in another country for a while, 2/1+ is a very reasonable goal. The chart should give ESL instructors strong insight into both teaching objectives and what their students are going through.  

					
					 

					There is a short general article on my website about language testing at

					 http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/lang_tests.html <http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/lang_tests.html>   

					
					 
					
					 

					Ted

					 

					       Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
					  Independent Consultant in Language
					         and Intercultural Training
					              14456 Agarita Road
					          Austin, Texas 78734-2009
					             Phone:512-266-1801
					              taklein at austin.rr.com        
					            www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-esl.com/>      
					             

					 

					 

					 

					 

					OPI  RATING  FACTOR  GRID

Interactive Comprehension


Structural Control  Texts Produced

Lexical Control

Delivery

Sociolinguistic Competence

Global Tasks and Functions

0+

The individual understands a number of short, memorized utterances in areas of immediate needs; frequent, long pauses and repeated requests for repetition.  

No control. Can only use memorized structures. 

Individual words and phrases.

Memorized words and phrases related to immediate survival needs.

Even in memorized speech, stress, intonation, tone usually quite faulty.

Severely limited.  Any knowledge of cultural appropriateness has a nonlinguistic source

Can make statements and ask questions using memorized material.

1

A native speaker must often use slowed speech, repetition, paraphrase, or a combination of these to be understood by this individual.  Misunderstandings are frequent, but the individual is able to ask for help and to verify comprehension of native speech in face-to-face interaction. 

Structural accuracy is random or severely limited.  Almost every utterance has errors in basic structures.  Time concepts are vague.  Can formulate some questions.  

Discrete sentences.

Very limited.  Covers courtesy expressions, introductions, identification, personal and accommodation needs, daily routine.

Often speaks with great difficulty. Pronunciation, stress, intonation generally poor.

Uses greetings and courtesy expressions.  Can interact with native speakers used to dealing with non-natives.

Can create sentences; begin, maintain, and close short conversations by asking and answering simple questions; satisfy simple daily needs.

2

The individual can get the gist of most everyday conversations, but has some difficulty understanding native speakers in situations that require a specialized or sophisticated knowledge.  (May require a native speaker to adjust to his/her limitations in some way).  

Discourse is minimally cohesive.  Grammatical structures are usually not very elaborate and not thoroughly controlled; errors are frequent.  Simple structure and basic grammatical relations are typically controlled.  

Full paragraphs.

Sufficient to discuss high frequency concrete topics such as work, family, personal background and interests, travel, current events.  Imprecise for less common topics.

Speaks with confidence but not facility.  Can usually be understood by those not used to dealing with non-natives.

Satisfies routine social demands and limited work requirements.  Can interact with native speakers not used to dealing with non-natives; native speakers may have to adjust to limitations.

Can describe people, places, and things; narrate current, past, and future activities in full paragraphs; state facts; give instructions or directions; ask and answer questions in the work place; deal with non-routine daily situations.

3

In face-to-face conversation with natives speaking the standard dialect at a normal rate of speech, comprehension is quite complete.  Although cultural references, proverbs, and the implications of nuances and idiom may not be fully understood, the individual can easily repair the conversation.  

Effectively combines structure and vocabulary to convey meaning. Discourse is cohesive.  Use of structural devices is flexible and elaborate.  Errors occur in low frequency and highly complex structures; but structural inaccuracy rarely causes misunderstanding.  

Extended discourse.

Broad enough for effective formal and informal conversations on practical, social, and professional topics.  Can convey abstract concepts.

Speaks readily and fills pauses suitably.  Pronunciation may be obviously foreign. Flaws in stress, intonation, pitch rarely disturb the native speaker.

Uses cultural references.  When errors are made, can easily repair the conversation.

Can converse extensively in formal and informal situations; discuss abstract topics; support opinions; hypothesize; deal with unfamiliar topics and situations; clarify points.  

4

Can understand native speakers of the standard and other major dialects in  essentially any face-to-face interaction.  Can understand the details and ramifications of concepts that are culturally or conceptually different from his/her own.  Understands shifts of both subject matter and tone.  

Organizes discourse well, using appropriate rhetorical devices and high level discourse structures. 

Speeches, lectures, debates, 

conference discussions.

Precise for representational purposes within personal and professional experience.  Can elaborate concepts freely; choose appropriate words to convey nuances of meaning.

Speaks effortlessly and smoothly, but would seldom be perceived as a native speaker.

Uses and understands details and ramifications of target cultural references. Can set and shift the tone of exchanges with a variety of native speakers.

Can tailor language to fit the audience; counsel; persuade; represent an official point of view; negotiate; advocate a position at length; interpret informally.

5

(No gaps in comprehension, including all details and nuances.)

Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.  

All texts controlled by a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.

Breadth of vocabulary and idiom equivalent to that of a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.

Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker of a standard dialect.

Speech reflects the cultural standards of country where language is natively spoken.

Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.

					DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03 (Reverse)


OPI  PERFORMANCE  PROFILE


RATERS

DATE

Check One:

C

S


 

ENTRY

Mid


Exit


 

 

SCN/TEL OPI CODE

RANK/NAME

CY

GRAD DATE

SET CODE

TEACHER/ROOM NO.

VERIFICATION


Interactive Comprehension


Structural Control / Texts Produced

Lexical Control


 

 
Delivery

Sociolinguistic Competence

Global Tasks and Functions


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

					    DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03

					
					 
					
					 
					
					 
					                                                
					

					 ----- Original Message ----- 

					From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>

					To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>

					Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:45 AM

					Subject: [Assessment 1149] Re: Observation checklist

					
					 

					Ted,
					
					Did you use an oral proficiency interview at the Defense Language
					Institute?  If so, how log did it take to administer to each student?  I
					think time is a real barrier to most adult ESL/ESOL programs.  Thus, they
					use tests that can be administered to students as a group and easily
					evaluated.
					
					For some college programs for international students, a whole range of
					tests are used for placement, including a writing sample, a reading test,
					and an oral interview.  Clearly that's more possible with smaller numbers
					of students who are also paying for the classes.
					
					What do you think is needed in the way of tests?  In Passing the Torch,
					Forrest and I point to assessment as a major issue facing all the colleges
					we studied.  We recommend the development of a test of all four skills
					that, if possible, could be administered and scored in a reasonable amount
					of time.
					
					Have you tried the BEST Plus test?  What has been your experience with
					that test?
					
					I agree that for placement at literacy levels, a simple test developed by
					a program might be sufficient.
					
					I also think that for progress through the levels, student achievement in
					the previous class, as judged by the instructor ("professional wisdom"),
					is still the best determiner of whether a student is ready to go to the
					next level.
					
					Jodi
					
					
					> Jodi,
					>
					> Same here! As long as the BEST Test is used to show gains, I'm afraid that
					> there isn't much chance that REAL gains could be charted and compared. It
					> is used too often to measure progress and is not as good for that purpose
					> as one would hope. Really valid proficiency tests are the only way to
					> prove the point. Achievement tests don't tell much in terms of overall
					> progress. I would also guess that it would take a minimum of 120 hours of
					> solid training to have a measureable level with any test that one could
					> play numbers with. Other factors including attendance, etc. would have to
					> be factored in. Adults have families and jobs in the way of total
					> dedication to attendance. Also, one would have to have a test in which
					> human judgment would play a small role. The BEST is fine for its original
					> purpose, which was to place persons with others at their same levels of
					> communication. Good measurement is the only way to prove anything. I often
					> rely on plain old gut instincts to figure how things are really going. I
					> know that's not very scientific.
					>
					> Cheers,  Ted
					> www.tedklein-ESL.com
					>
					>
					> ----- Original Message -----
					> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
					> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
					> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:05 PM
					> Subject: [Assessment 1138] Re: Observation checklist
					>
					>
					> Hi, Ted.  Glad to make contact again.
					>
					> I definitely agree that smaller classes are more likely to bring learner
					> gains, especially in language, since students will have more opportunity
					> to speak when there are fewer students.  I didn't know about the DLI
					> policy, but it is a good one.  The problem with adult ESL classes, I fear,
					> is that there is such limited money available that programs would find it
					> difficult to keep class size to these numbers.
					>
					> Has anyone tried to reduce class size and chart the learning gains?  If
					> so, please share with us all.  It might be that this would be a good
					> investment.  If students in smaller classes make faster gains, then there
					> would be more spaces available as these students transitioned to other
					> classes or the workforce.
					>
					> Jodi
					>
					> Hi Jodi,
					>>
					>> Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times in the
					>> past,
					>> I think at least once when you visited the Defense Language Institute
					>> English Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I
					>> mention
					>> DLI is that it represents a language program with little leeway to fail.
					>> I
					>> spent 20 years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is to train
					>> allied and friendly military personnel worldwide in general and
					>> specialized English. Most students start ESL in their home countries
					>> with
					>> DLIELC personnel advising, and in some cases teaching, in these overseas
					>> military language centers. It may still be the largest language program
					>> in
					>> the world. Students after reaching certain levels go to Lackland Air
					>> Force
					>> Base in San Antonio, complete their general English, usually go through
					>> specialized terminology and then on to whatever training their country
					>> needs with the U.S. military. Students have run the full gamut from
					>> recruits and NCO's up to generals and admirals. This is a very tightly
					>> organized "well-packaged" language program with predictable training
					>> times
					>> and results.
					>>
					>> Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb while I was at
					>> at DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum. This was
					>> rarely broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters' bean
					>> counter would calculate that if a mere two or three students could be
					>> added to a class, voila, look at the money we would save! This money
					>> came
					>> both from foreign governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue and then
					>> try
					>> it, I believe several times over the years. However, in an organization
					>> that has a very effective testing system; both achievement and
					>> proficiency, it was soon noticed that the scores were going down, just
					>> enough so that they could prove that no money was being saved on teacher
					>> salaries and other expenses. I spent three years with the Royal Thai
					>> Navy
					>> for DLI as language training advisor and remember having to twist arms
					>> with the RTN Navy Education Department with the same problem. They
					>> wanted
					>> 15 in a class.
					>>
					>> Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during my last
					>> eight years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes have
					>> consistently been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an
					>> organization is stuck with a low budget, make the hours of training per
					>> week lower, but keep the class sizes within 10 or so students. Fewer
					>> hours
					>> of really effective training are certainly better than large classes
					>> where
					>> the student attention level and collegiality are reduced. I remember
					>> Mary
					>> Finocchiaro saying years ago that she didn't care how many students were
					>> in her classroom, she would teach them! Unfortunately, most of us just
					>> aren't THAT dynamic.
					>>
					>> Cheers,  Ted
					>> www.tedklein-ESL.com
					>>
					>>
					>>
					>> ----- Original Message -----
					>> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
					>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
					>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM
					>> Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist
					>>
					>>
					>> Usha,
					>>
					>> I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
					>> experience that with more than 10 students, learning decreases?  If so,
					>> how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be
					>> interested
					>> in ways to decrease class size.
					>>
					>> It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
					>> constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more
					>> important
					>> to involve them in activities in which all get to participate, which
					>> means
					>> less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small classes
					>> need that.
					>>
					>> What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?
					>>
					>> You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop out of
					>> classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any of you
					>> keep
					>> records of your students that would identify those who do return?  Do
					>> you
					>> have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning English
					>> outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know of any
					>> research about adult English Language Learners in this area, but there
					>> is
					>> an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State
					>> University
					>> following adult literacy level students for several years.  They have
					>> identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside of the
					>> classroom and also that some of these learners come back to classes
					>> after
					>> being out of them for some time.
					>>
					>> Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of you been
					>> able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of these
					>> services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have been most
					>> effective? If you teach in a community college, have your students had
					>> access to the various support services provided to other students?
					>>
					>> Several of you have talked about the differences in progress made by
					>> students with more advanced education and those who are at literacy
					>> level.
					>>  Because literacy level students take longer in making progress, most
					>> programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and
					>> literate
					>> beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and literacy
					>> will
					>> need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to talk about
					>> what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about
					>> persistence
					>> of literacy level students and their learning gains.
					>>
					>> Students with advanced education in their own language may be able to
					>> have
					>> a condensed program since they are already experienced as students and
					>> often have high motivation to get through English so that they can take
					>> courses related to their previous or future career.  City College of San
					>> Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters worth of
					>> work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer something along
					>> these lines?
					>>
					>> Jodi
					>>
					>>
					>>> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked the tool
					>>> that
					>>> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope that it
					>>> is
					>>> not
					>>> something that has already been asked and answered.
					>>>
					>>> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of our ESL
					>>> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal constraints
					>>> and
					>>> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a positive
					>>> to
					>>> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we expect to see
					>>> more
					>>> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the numbers.
					>>>
					>>> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy programs
					>>> because of many socio-economic factors.
					>>>
					>>> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing market (in
					>>> past
					>>> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to stay in
					>>> one
					>>> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen more in
					>>> people
					>>> who do not have high levels of education from their native country).
					>>>
					>>> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from their
					>>> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some kind of
					>>> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs, go in and
					>>> out
					>>> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of various
					>>> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and have no time
					>>> to
					>>> practice.
					>>>
					>>> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in educational
					>>> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
					>>> availability
					>>> of  community resources.
					>>>
					>>> Usha Narayanan
					>>> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
					>>> California
					>>> 408-522-2737
					>>>
					>>>
					>>> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
					>>>
					>>>> Marie,
					>>>>
					>>>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and out of the
					>>>> U.S.A.
					>>>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc. in ESL.
					>>>> It
					>>>> is
					>>>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that I'm
					>>>> back
					>>>> in the
					>>>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the Defense
					>>>> Language
					>>>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching immigrants part
					>>>> time for
					>>>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin
					>>>> Community
					>>>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what language
					>>>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to work at a
					>>>> higher
					>>>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I
					>>>> apply
					>>>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy
					>>>> traps."
					>>>> I
					>>>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
					>>>> interested and
					>>>> it is published on my website at
					>>>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel absolutely free
					>>>> to use
					>>>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank you very
					>>>> much for
					>>>> the input. Questions are welcome.
					>>>>
					>>>> Cheers,   Ted
					>>>>
					>>>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
					>>>>   Independent Consultant in Language
					>>>>          and Intercultural Training
					>>>>               14456 Agarita Road
					>>>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
					>>>>              Phone:512-266-1801
					>>>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
					>>>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
					>>>>
					>>>>
					>>>> ----- Original Message -----
					>>>>>
					>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
					>>>>>
					>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
					>>>>>
					>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
					>>>>>
					>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
					>>>>>
					>>>>>
					>>>>>
					>>>>>
					>>>>> Hi  Ted,
					>>>>>
					>>>>>
					>>>>>
					>>>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it
					>>>>> yourself?
					>>>>>
					>>>>>
					>>>>>
					>>>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
					>>>>>
					>>>>>
					>>>>>
					>>>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try
					>>>>> to
					>>>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do others
					>>>>> you
					>>>>> work with?
					>>>>>
					>>>>>
					>>>>>
					>>>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the
					>>>>> students
					>>>>> advance?
					>>>>>
					>>>>>
					>>>>>
					>>>>> Marie
					>>>>>
					>>>>>
					>>>>>
					>>>>>
					>>>>>
					>>>>>
					>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
					>>>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
					>>>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
					>>>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
					>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
					>>>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
					>>>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> Marie,
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> Ted
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
					>>>>>>  NO
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>    supportive personality?
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>    other and the instructor?
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>     target language  proficiency?
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>     than push them?
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>     exaggerated speech?
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>     results?
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>> ---- Original Message -----
					>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>> Hello  everyone,
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on  regarding
					>>>>>>> your
					>>>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??  I was
					>>>>>>> very
					>>>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
					>>>>>>> that
					>>>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
					>>>>>>> intensity
					>>>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
					>>>>>>> opportunities
					>>>>>>> for  professional development.
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit the ESL
					>>>>>>> student
					>>>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>> Thanks!
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>> Marie  Cora
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>> Marie  Cora
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
					>>>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>>
					>>>>>>> -------------------------------
					>>>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
					>>>>>>> Assessment mailing list
					>>>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
					>>>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
					>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
					>>>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
					>>>>>
					>>>>>
					>>>>>
					>>>>>
					>>>>>
					>>>>>
					>>>>> -------------------------------
					>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
					>>>>> Assessment mailing list
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					>>>>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings, please go to
					>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
					>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
					>>>>
					>>>>
					>>>> -------------------------------
					>>>> National Institute for Literacy
					>>>> Assessment mailing list
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					>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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					>>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
					>>>
					>>
					>>
					>> --
					>> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
					>> Professor, Education Department
					>> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
					>> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in
					>> ESOL/Bilingual
					>> Education
					>> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
					>> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
					>> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
					>> email: crandall at umbc.edu
					>> www.umbc.edu/llc/
					>> www.umbc.edu/esol/
					>> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
					>>
					>>
					>>
					>> -------------------------------
					>> National Institute for Literacy
					>> Assessment mailing list
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					>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
					>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
					>> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
					>> National Institute for Literacy
					>> Assessment mailing list
					>> Assessment at nifl.gov
					>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
					>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
					>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
					>>
					>
					>
					> --
					> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
					> Professor, Education Department
					> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
					> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
					> Education
					> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
					> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
					> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
					> email: crandall at umbc.edu
					> www.umbc.edu/llc/
					> www.umbc.edu/esol/
					> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
					>
					>
					>
					> -------------------------------
					> National Institute for Literacy
					> Assessment mailing list
					> Assessment at nifl.gov
					> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
					> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
					> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
					> National Institute for Literacy
					> Assessment mailing list
					> Assessment at nifl.gov
					> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
					> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
					> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
					>
					
					
					-- 
					JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
					Professor, Education Department
					Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
					Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
					Education
					University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
					1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
					ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
					email: crandall at umbc.edu
					www.umbc.edu/llc/
					www.umbc.edu/esol/
					www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
					
					
					
					-------------------------------
					National Institute for Literacy
					Assessment mailing list
					Assessment at nifl.gov
					To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
					Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com 

					-------------------------------

					National Institute for Literacy

					Assessment mailing list

					Assessment at nifl.gov

					To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

					Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

				
				 
				

				JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

				Professor and Director

				Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program

				Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education

				University of Maryland Baltimore County

				1000 Hilltop Circle

				Baltimore, MD 21250

				tel:  410-455-2313

				fax: 410-455-8947

				eml: crandall at umbc.edu

				
				 
				
				 

				
				
				

				
				 

			-------------------------------
			National Institute for Literacy
			Assessment mailing list
			Assessment at nifl.gov
			To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
			Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu


		
		JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
		Professor and Director
		Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
		Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
		University of Maryland Baltimore County
		1000 Hilltop Circle
		Baltimore, MD 21250
		tel:  410-455-2313
		fax: 410-455-8947
		eml: crandall at umbc.edu





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From jhalaesl at aol.com  Fri Feb  8 18:12:14 2008
From: jhalaesl at aol.com (jhalaesl at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 18:12:14 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1217] Re: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <009d01c86a9f$35a66220$a0f32660$@net>
References: <CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B2E@exchr.raritanval.edu>	<007201c86a04$26b41a50$741c4ef0$@net>	<CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B3C@exchr.raritanval.edu>	<001f01c86a69$364ee6b0$a2ecb410$@net>	<8CA3889EA7B2E7B-1014-2817@webmailbeta-m10.sysops.aol.com>	<9896493C-9886-4CD1-8578-D7DD25EEE11D@umbc.edu>
	<009d01c86a9f$35a66220$a0f32660$@net>
Message-ID: <8CA38BF2D34BD1E-964-5EC9@webmail-md20.sysops.aol.com>


 


 


 Forrest - you are on target with your comments about the CBO-college connection, or lack thereof. And yes many fall through the cracks. Hence my previous comments about having contacts. This is not a systematized network of contacts (I'm a tad cynical about that route), but those in one's personal/professional circle--the people who can tell us when/if the system can be flexed, or not. 

Without those contacts it would be very difficult for me to refer ESL students from our CBO program (FYI much time and effort spent ensuring that our programs are high-quality, accountable, and learner-driven) to other providers, including the college. Our students place a great deal of trust in our willingness and ability to help them get the education they need at a price/time/place that works. When I make a referral, it is a personal one, preceded by my phone call/e-mail to the contact. And always including my/their follow-up.


Fortunately the people on the other end of the referral know to refer back to me if their program is not suitable.
Joanne


-----Original Message-----
From: Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net>
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List' <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 5:08 pm
Subject: [Assessment 1208] Re: (no subject)

























Joanne,



?



I?m interested in the question Jodi asks too. As I
understand it, local literacy councils have been on the wane, but I hope I?m
wrong about that.



?



I?m aware that CBO?s are the federal/state grant
providers in some areas, although nationwide (according to DOE surveys anyway)
they serve a far smaller percentage of students than do LEA?s and
colleges. I mean them no disrespect. ?I?ve seen some that were
highly professionalized and provided superb service, and some that didn?t
?-- just like colleges and LEA?s J! It?s the quality of
the provider, not the type of provider that matters. 



?



What interests me more is your reference to the implicit ?division
of labor? between CBO?s and colleges or LEA?s you mention. I
think that in some areas this is fairly common: colleges or LEA?s refer
the lowest level students to CBO?s (with or without the necessary
funding). In most of the cases where I?ve seen this, it doesn?t
seem to work out very well. There isn?t the coordination/collaboration to
which you allude. In fact, I?ve sometimes had the impression that it?s
a way of dumping the hardest to serve students on CBO?s. Too often these
students become ?out of sight and out of mind.? And because the students
ARE the hardest to serve, low success rates make the CBO?s look bad,
compared to the other providers ? unfairly. I?ve tried to chase
down information about this model in the past, but I haven?t been very
successful. I would love to know if any of the rest of you have experience with
it, and how well you think it works. 



?



Forrest 



?









From:
assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf
Of Jodi Crandall

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 1:09 PM

To: The Assessment Discussion List

Subject: [Assessment 1191] Re: (no subject)









?



Joanne,






?









Bravo!? Making connections with such limited funds is
critical.? I remember when major cities had? councils which
coordinated literacy/ESL services.? I wonder if any of you have some kind
of even an? informal network that meets to discuss the most efficient and
effective ways to use the minimal funds that are available.









Jodi









?









On Feb 8, 2008, at 11:50 AM, jhalaesl at aol.com wrote:

















Not always the reason for an LEA-to-local college
turnover of those federal and state adult ed funds

In my experience, it has simply and sadly been the result of limited resources
and insufficient funds.

And in some areas a CBO (not an LEA) manages those grant programs, offers
classes free to the lowest literacy ESL/ESOL students, and is never able to
fully bridge the gap between very part-time instruction and college.



One key element to our small successes has been having colleagues in each
institution (local college, LEA, CBO, gov't DOE/DOL) who understand the
dynamics and the gaps. Granted, most are still limited by the systems in which
they work and to which they must be accountable. But there is still much to be
said for permitting ourselves some case-by-case thinking, making those simple
phone calls, and asking.



Joanne Hala

Literacy Serrvices

Jointure for Community Adult Education, Inc.









?ve heard an increasing number of stories about areas
were the LEA runs the federal/state ?adult education ESL grant program and
has asked the local college to take it over (because the LEA has concluded
it?s an ?adult? program). Have there been any rumblings of
that in your area?









?









?









?






-----Original Message-----

From: Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net>

To: 'The Assessment Discussion List' <assessment at nifl.gov>

Sent: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 10:42 am

Subject: [Assessment 1179] Re: (no subject)












Kevin,









?









Thanks for the explanation. I find it VERY useful.
It?s a very interesting model. I?m not surprised that your students
are motivated for college, because they?ve signed up for a college prep
track! What worries me are the limited aspirations of many lower level ESL
students who may have college potential. 









?









I understand now why you don?t have the resources to
operate a more comprehensive program. I?ve heard an increasing number of
stories about areas were the LEA runs the federal/state ?adult education
ESL grant program and has asked the local college to take it over (because the
LEA has concluded it?s an ?adult? program). Have there been
any rumblings of that in your area?









?









Best of luck in your good work.









?









Forrest ???









?















From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 9:42 AM

To: The Assessment Discussion List; The Assessment Discussion List

Subject: [Assessment 1174] Re: (no subject)















?















I believe we do have a hard time getting enough students fed
into our program and with the appropriate background to succeed if they do come
to us. It is a real problem. There are some workplace ESL programs which are
run through our Corporate and Continuing Education Office, but those students
rarely, if ever, come to us. And they serve the employees of specific companies
as opposed to the community at large. 















?















Our ESL program is within an academic department in the
college (Communication and Languages) and so is run like every other. ESL
students pay the same tuition and fees as all other students at the college. We
do not receive special government funding beyond what the state and counties
provide for the college as a?whole as a part of our yearly budget.















?















Finances are probably a big reason why we are getting fewer
students at the low levels. Community programs are free or low cost; although
in the scheme of higher education, the community college is less expensive, it
may still be out of reach of many students. 















?















In terms of having a more comprehensive program, we are
limited by a small staff, and the unlikelihood of being able to expand given
college budgeting restraints. In addition, our three full-time faculty members
(including myself) not only teach 15 credit hours per semester but also do the
administrative work required. We do advising, scheduling, and the many other
tasks associate with keeping the program afloat. The only "official"
administrative support for the program is through the 3 hours of overload I
receive to serve as Adjunct Coordinator. 















?















The belief that they can attend college does not seem to be
a problem with our population although I can certainly see that it could be. A
growing problem for us (and many around the country) is the disconnect between
high schools and colleges in terms of student preparation. Either the high
schools do not think the students are college-bound and so don't bother to give
them a college-prep course of study, or there is simply a growing gap between
the expectations of each. Additionally, students seem to think that a high
school diploma equates to college readiness.















?















We do our best to advise students, but we don't always have
enough time - and as professors primarily - may not know ourselves what all of
the options for students are. 















?





















Kevin 


















?



















From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
on behalf of Forrest Chisman

Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 10:38 PM

To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'

Subject: [Assessment 1172] Re: (no subject)















Dear Kevin,









?









Many thanks for providing all of us with a profile of your
program. Seeing the variety of college program goals and designs is extremely
valuable in stimulating ideas about how to do a better job in delivering ESL.









?









Personally, I think that it is perfectly valid for colleges
to elect to offer solely pre-academic ESL at the non-credit level. But it does
prompt the concern about whether other programs in the college?s service
area are providing non-academic ESL to large enough numbers of students and at
a high enough quality to ?feed? the college program ? as well
as how well their efforts articulate with yours. I wonder whether this troubles
you, and if so whether/how you have addressed the issue. ?Frankly, I think
one reason why many colleges offer comprehensive ESL programs is that they
would prefer to ?make? pre-academic students themselves, rather
than rely on others to do it. Another reason, of course, if that they may not
be eligible for federal/state grant money unless they offer comprehensive
programs. Does your college receive these funds to support its pre-academic
program? If not, how is it supported financially?









?









I heartily agree that helping students set realistic goals
and understand their options is essential. I believe, however, that encouraging
students to expand their goals as they succeed is also essential. For example,
many immigrants come from countries where going to college is the privilege of
very few, and thus may consider that an unrealistic goal ?unless they are
encouraged to take the steps necessary (often one step at a time). The problem
seems to be that it is hard for most programs to find the resources to provide
very much guidance of any of these kinds to most students. I wonder if anyone
has any solutions to THAT issue. 









?









In any event, many thanks for fleshing out an interesting
model. ?









?









Forrest ????









?















From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert

Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:19 PM

To: assessment at nifl.gov

Subject: [Assessment 1148] (no subject)















?















Hi All,















?















I have been reading most of the discussion comments and
wanted to address a few issues. First, however, I'll give a summary of our
program. 















?















I teach ESL at Raritan Valley Community College in New
Jersey. Our program serves approximately 350 students from diverse language
backgrounds. Our program offers two pre-academic levels of all skills ESL instruction
(a six hour per week non-credit class). In addition, we have 5 levels of
academic ESL preparation divided into three courses?- Reading/Writing,
Grammar, and Speaking/Listening). Our highest level Reading/Writing course
gives successful students 6 elective credits that count towards RVCC
graduation, but those credits do not transfer. Our semesters are 15 weeks. If a
student misses 20% of any class, the instructor may withdraw that student (they
are not, however, obliged to withdraw these students). At the moment, the late
enrollment policy is that students may register for a course prior to the
second week of class but not thereafter. Research, of course, indicates that
students who begin a class late have a much higher rate of failure than those who
begin on time. 















?















In our program, we have three full-time faculty and
approximately 16-18 adjuncts. 















?















We have focused our program on academic prep ESL because we
are a small program with limited resources, and we have a very difficult time
finding qualified adjuncts. Also, a significant majority of our
students?have signalled their intention?to obtain a college degree.
Moreover, there are community programs that offer basic English skills although
there is often a long waiting list to obtain the services. In other issues, we
use the Accuplacer ESL test for placement and have in-house standardized tests
at the end of each level of grammar and reading/writing















?















Within our classes, highly educated non-native speakers
usually progress much more quickly. One of the most challenging groups is
students who graduated from local high schools but still have inadequate
English skills - and not infrequently, weak academic skills in general. One of
the strategies that I would personally wish for is real communication between
K-12 and community colleges so that students get the language skills they need
before they enter college. I understand that there is great pressure to move
students out of ESL in many school districts, but ultimately, it does a huge
disservice both financially and in terms of motivation to students whose skills
remain more BICS than CALP. 















?















I agree with those who suggest that first language literacy
issues should be addressed before students enter ESL. However, it becomes
complicated to find funding and support for such efforts. In my experience,
students with low level literacy skills become frustrated and are not
ultimately successful?- probably by any definition. I am uncomfortable
with the idea that they are spending hard-earned money when the chances for
success in ESL are minimal. We advise students that the program is academically-oriented;
often they have little understanding of what that means. 















?















I do not agree with the suggestion that the bar be lowered
so that students with low-intermediate skills be allowed in credit classes (at
least at my college). Historically, other faculty have little experience
handling language issues and are very unhappy when students cannot read, write
and converse at an appropriate level of English. They end up feeling helpless.
Students may pass classes; however, I suspect that instructors do not want to deal
with the challenges and so turn a blind eye and let them through. Recently,
there has been a problem in the nursing department with non-native English
speaking students not passing board exams because they enter the college from
other programs and circumvent ESL with us. They have trouble reading and
answering questions on the exam. This is a significant problem because nursing
programs are judged in terms of the?success of their students on these
standardized exams. 















?















I think the measure of success should be based on a
realistic assessment of student goals combined with a real-life discussion of
the possibilities and limitations. Ideally, students would have incremental
goals so that success could build. If the goals for students with low literacy
levels are not carefully discussed and planned, then they will likely encounter
more failure than success because their expectaions will be unrealistic. The
more we have the opportunity to talk to students, the more likely it is that
they can develop short-term goals that are within their reach. Unfortunately,
we have no control over the myriad of complications that accrue in their every
day lives. 















?















Apologies for the length.















?





















Kevin Hinkle, Ph.D.















Assistant Professor of ESL/Adjunct Coordinator






















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?









JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall









Professor and Director









Language, Literacy and
Culture Ph.D. Program









Director, Peace Corps
Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education









University of Maryland
Baltimore County









1000 Hilltop Circle









Baltimore, MD 21250









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From valerie.woodard at hccs.edu  Fri Feb  8 18:29:30 2008
From: valerie.woodard at hccs.edu (valerie.woodard)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:29:30 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1218] Re: (no subject)
References: <CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B2E@exchr.raritanval.edu>	<007201c86a04$26b41a50$741c4ef0$@net>	<CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B3C@exchr.raritanval.edu>	<001f01c86a69$364ee6b0$a2ecb410$@net>
	<4BF38AF2-AB8B-4E41-A30B-388D328E41BF@umbc.edu>
	<008f01c86a9c$8a4f62c0$9eee2840$@net>
Message-ID: <4B5EE7DED9296B4A94B20684F5289B29E04790@ADMINMAIL2.ad.hccs.edu>

I would love to hear from the group about "professional development" challenges you face. How do we in-part learning theory to part-time staff with degrees but no educational back ground.  How do we tap into the importance of training and have staff identify with continuing professional development. It seems to me that it would be of benefit to look at the experience of the Adult Education instructors and requirement from the federal grant but local authority can make up a large part of the requirement they have adopted which does not put professional development up front?  Resources are needed to help instructors stay sharp for the students. 

 

Valerie Y. Woodard, MA
Program Director
Research, Evaluation & Staff Development
Community & Adult Education
Houston Community College
3100 Main St, Rm BD07E
Houston, Texas  77002
 
713-718-5363 Office
713718-5377  Fax
 
http://www.hccs.ed/adulted.mov <http://www.hccs.ed/adulteEd.mov> 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Fri 2/8/2008 3:49 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1207] Re: (no subject)



Jodi,

 

I think that's a fantastic conceptualization. As you know, I am not well-versed in learning theory, but I can't help believing that these kinds of ideas would be invaluable to teachers. I would love to hear from the group whether they think most of their teachers are "up on" these kinds of insights from learning theory and apply them. Or is this part of the "professional development" challenge we face. It seems to me that it would be tragic if we don't have the resources to help teachers tap into as much of this as there is.

 

Forrest    

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 11:40 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1184] Re: (no subject)

 

Kevin,

 

Are many of your students what we now refer to as generation 1.5 students?  They have had much or most of their education in this country, but may still need extensive help with academic English, especially in writing?

 

If so, are there any special things that you have tried to help this population?

 

Do you also have international students?

 

Joy Reid has written extensively about "ear" learners (generation 1.5 learners would likely be here) and "eye" learners and how their needs are so different.  Ear learners are those who were immersed in an English-speaking environment and have learned their English orally.  As you suggest, they have strong Basic Interpersonal Communication Skills or social language, but may not have developed the academic language required for success in the community college.  Eye learners are just the opposite: they have learned English through books and lack the fluency of ear learners, but are more likely to have more standard English  While these two groups share some common needs, they are also very different in others.  It's a real challenge.  Getting these ear learners prepared for the college is something that lots of people are talking and writing about.

 

There is also the problem with the first group that they speak English and often are offended when told they need more English, especially when it's ESL!

 

In effect you are teaching only credit ESL, is that right?  Are there linkages with any of the programs in the community that are teaching lower level ESL?

 

Jodi  

On Feb 8, 2008, at 10:42 AM, Forrest Chisman wrote:





Kevin,

 

Thanks for the explanation. I find it VERY useful. It's a very interesting model. I'm not surprised that your students are motivated for college, because they've signed up for a college prep track! What worries me are the limited aspirations of many lower level ESL students who may have college potential. 

 

I understand now why you don't have the resources to operate a more comprehensive program. I've heard an increasing number of stories about areas were the LEA runs the federal/state  adult education ESL grant program and has asked the local college to take it over (because the LEA has concluded it's an "adult" program). Have there been any rumblings of that in your area?

 

Best of luck in your good work.

 

Forrest    

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 9:42 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List; The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1174] Re: (no subject)

 

I believe we do have a hard time getting enough students fed into our program and with the appropriate background to succeed if they do come to us. It is a real problem. There are some workplace ESL programs which are run through our Corporate and Continuing Education Office, but those students rarely, if ever, come to us. And they serve the employees of specific companies as opposed to the community at large. 

 

Our ESL program is within an academic department in the college (Communication and Languages) and so is run like every other. ESL students pay the same tuition and fees as all other students at the college. We do not receive special government funding beyond what the state and counties provide for the college as a whole as a part of our yearly budget.

 

Finances are probably a big reason why we are getting fewer students at the low levels. Community programs are free or low cost; although in the scheme of higher education, the community college is less expensive, it may still be out of reach of many students. 

 

In terms of having a more comprehensive program, we are limited by a small staff, and the unlikelihood of being able to expand given college budgeting restraints. In addition, our three full-time faculty members (including myself) not only teach 15 credit hours per semester but also do the administrative work required. We do advising, scheduling, and the many other tasks associate with keeping the program afloat. The only "official" administrative support for the program is through the 3 hours of overload I receive to serve as Adjunct Coordinator. 

 

The belief that they can attend college does not seem to be a problem with our population although I can certainly see that it could be. A growing problem for us (and many around the country) is the disconnect between high schools and colleges in terms of student preparation. Either the high schools do not think the students are college-bound and so don't bother to give them a college-prep course of study, or there is simply a growing gap between the expectations of each. Additionally, students seem to think that a high school diploma equates to college readiness.

 

We do our best to advise students, but we don't always have enough time - and as professors primarily - may not know ourselves what all of the options for students are. 

 

Kevin 

 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 10:38 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1172] Re: (no subject)

Dear Kevin,

 

Many thanks for providing all of us with a profile of your program. Seeing the variety of college program goals and designs is extremely valuable in stimulating ideas about how to do a better job in delivering ESL.

 

Personally, I think that it is perfectly valid for colleges to elect to offer solely pre-academic ESL at the non-credit level. But it does prompt the concern about whether other programs in the college's service area are providing non-academic ESL to large enough numbers of students and at a high enough quality to "feed" the college program - as well as how well their efforts articulate with yours. I wonder whether this troubles you, and if so whether/how you have addressed the issue.  Frankly, I think one reason why many colleges offer comprehensive ESL programs is that they would prefer to "make" pre-academic students themselves, rather than rely on others to do it. Another reason, of course, if that they may not be eligible for federal/state grant money unless they offer comprehensive programs. Does your college receive these funds to support its pre-academic program? If not, how is it supported financially?

 

I heartily agree that helping students set realistic goals and understand their options is essential. I believe, however, that encouraging students to expand their goals as they succeed is also essential. For example, many immigrants come from countries where going to college is the privilege of very few, and thus may consider that an unrealistic goal  unless they are encouraged to take the steps necessary (often one step at a time). The problem seems to be that it is hard for most programs to find the resources to provide very much guidance of any of these kinds to most students. I wonder if anyone has any solutions to THAT issue. 

 

In any event, many thanks for fleshing out an interesting model.  

 

Forrest     

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:19 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1148] (no subject)

 

Hi All,

 

I have been reading most of the discussion comments and wanted to address a few issues. First, however, I'll give a summary of our program. 

 

I teach ESL at Raritan Valley Community College in New Jersey. Our program serves approximately 350 students from diverse language backgrounds. Our program offers two pre-academic levels of all skills ESL instruction (a six hour per week non-credit class). In addition, we have 5 levels of academic ESL preparation divided into three courses - Reading/Writing, Grammar, and Speaking/Listening). Our highest level Reading/Writing course gives successful students 6 elective credits that count towards RVCC graduation, but those credits do not transfer. Our semesters are 15 weeks. If a student misses 20% of any class, the instructor may withdraw that student (they are not, however, obliged to withdraw these students). At the moment, the late enrollment policy is that students may register for a course prior to the second week of class but not thereafter. Research, of course, indicates that students who begin a class late have a much higher rate of failure than those who begin on time. 

 

In our program, we have three full-time faculty and approximately 16-18 adjuncts. 

 

We have focused our program on academic prep ESL because we are a small program with limited resources, and we have a very difficult time finding qualified adjuncts. Also, a significant majority of our students have signalled their intention to obtain a college degree. Moreover, there are community programs that offer basic English skills although there is often a long waiting list to obtain the services. In other issues, we use the Accuplacer ESL test for placement and have in-house standardized tests at the end of each level of grammar and reading/writing

 

Within our classes, highly educated non-native speakers usually progress much more quickly. One of the most challenging groups is students who graduated from local high schools but still have inadequate English skills - and not infrequently, weak academic skills in general. One of the strategies that I would personally wish for is real communication between K-12 and community colleges so that students get the language skills they need before they enter college. I understand that there is great pressure to move students out of ESL in many school districts, but ultimately, it does a huge disservice both financially and in terms of motivation to students whose skills remain more BICS than CALP. 

 

I agree with those who suggest that first language literacy issues should be addressed before students enter ESL. However, it becomes complicated to find funding and support for such efforts. In my experience, students with low level literacy skills become frustrated and are not ultimately successful - probably by any definition. I am uncomfortable with the idea that they are spending hard-earned money when the chances for success in ESL are minimal. We advise students that the program is academically-oriented; often they have little understanding of what that means. 

 

I do not agree with the suggestion that the bar be lowered so that students with low-intermediate skills be allowed in credit classes (at least at my college). Historically, other faculty have little experience handling language issues and are very unhappy when students cannot read, write and converse at an appropriate level of English. They end up feeling helpless. Students may pass classes; however, I suspect that instructors do not want to deal with the challenges and so turn a blind eye and let them through. Recently, there has been a problem in the nursing department with non-native English speaking students not passing board exams because they enter the college from other programs and circumvent ESL with us. They have trouble reading and answering questions on the exam. This is a significant problem because nursing programs are judged in terms of the success of their students on these standardized exams. 

 

I think the measure of success should be based on a realistic assessment of student goals combined with a real-life discussion of the possibilities and limitations. Ideally, students would have incremental goals so that success could build. If the goals for students with low literacy levels are not carefully discussed and planned, then they will likely encounter more failure than success because their expectaions will be unrealistic. The more we have the opportunity to talk to students, the more likely it is that they can develop short-term goals that are within their reach. Unfortunately, we have no control over the myriad of complications that accrue in their every day lives. 

 

Apologies for the length.

 

Kevin Hinkle, Ph.D.

Assistant Professor of ESL/Adjunct Coordinator

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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

 

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

Professor and Director

Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program

Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education

University of Maryland Baltimore County

1000 Hilltop Circle

Baltimore, MD 21250

tel:  410-455-2313

fax: 410-455-8947

eml: crandall at umbc.edu

 

 





 



From crandall at umbc.edu  Fri Feb  8 19:16:06 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (Jodi Crandall)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 19:16:06 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1217] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F02F33CEB@MAIL.cal.local>
References: <C3CE4BCC.8F31%usha_narayanan@fuhsd.org><52294.130.85.83.224.1202268183.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><001e01c868c8$49636de0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75><49507.130.85.83.224.1202328350.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><007e01c86927$0ca72220$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75><50639.138.88.30.77.1202391909.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu><001801c869b3$01219660$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75><9A537A75-618C-402D-8F6E-EDEA8C0DF840@umbc.edu><7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F02F33CB7@MAIL.cal.local><63733377F5D386419FE59FCB038725EF0B544FEE@EXCHANGE.njdol.ad.dol><80D4960C-669A-4203-91B3-DE3C34200D93@umbc.edu>
	<7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F02F33CDE@MAIL.cal.local>
	<7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F02F33CEB@MAIL.cal.local>
Message-ID: <0E2C8F6A-C4DB-4820-A61E-E2B4346D550D@umbc.edu>

Michelle,

Thanks so much for this clarification.  You have clarified the  
various BEST tests and their purposes.  You're also so right, if we  
are to develop additional tests, there needs to be money made  
available for that.

Jodi
On Feb 8, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Michelle Ueland wrote:

>
> Marie, There was a key word left out of my message below:  
> "currently there are  no  initiatives that we are aware of for  
> funding this type of test development within the Department of  
> Education Office of Vocational and Adult Education" although, like  
> many others, I wish there were funding to fill these need. Sorry  
> for the unintended confusion on Friday afternoon. Michelle
> Dear Listserv Members,
>
> Greetings!
>
> I?m so glad that there are so many people and programs interested  
> in the Center for Applied Linguistics and our adult ESL assessments.
>
> Regarding the nomenclature, the original BEST tests (oral interview  
> and literacy skills sections) have changed since their original  
> development in the 1980?s yet many of us still continue to refer to  
> them affectionately as the BEST tests. The BEST oral interview has  
> been replaced by BEST Plus which is much more comprehensive and  
> covers SPL levels 0 ? 10 and NRS levels 1 ? 6.  Furthermore, BEST  
> literacy skills section has been updated and renamed BEST Literacy.  
> It is currently available in three forms (B, C, and D) and there is  
> a new Test Manual to accompany the updated tests. Although we are  
> cognizant of the need for a higher level reading and writing test,  
> currently there are  no  initiatives that we are aware of for  
> funding this type of test development within the Department of  
> Education Office of Vocational and Adult Education.
>
> I would encourage anyone on this discussion list who is interested  
> in assessment issues to begin by reviewing their state assessment  
> policy to determine which assessments - of those approved for use  
> by NRS at federally and state-funded adult ESL programs - are also  
> on their state?s list. If BEST Plus, BEST Literacy, BEST oral or  
> literacy skills sections are listed, or if anyone would like more  
> information about CAL?s assessments, check out CAL?s website at:  
> www.cal.org or the BEST Plus website at:  www.cal.org/bestplus/
>
> In many states there have been and continue to be numerous training  
> opportunities. For example, in   New Jersey the New Jersey  
> Department of Labor regularly schedules BEST Plus training in  
> different areas of the state. If anyone would like further  
> information about the updates to BEST Literacy or about the two  
> forms of BEST Plus (computer adaptive and print-based), the adult  
> ESL assessments team at CAL is happy to provide information and  
> continue to clarify any questions you may have off line. Please  
> contact us directly at: 1-866-845-2378 (toll free) or at aea at cal.org
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Michelle Ueland
> Adult ESL Assessments
> Center for Applied Linguistics
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 8:25 PM
> To: The Assessment Discussion List
> Subject: [Assessment 1166] Re: Observation checklist
>
> Michelle and others,
>
> Thanks so much.  We will all benefit from the clear explanation of  
> the BEST Plus.
>
> It's good to hear from some of you who are using the test as well.
>
> Michelle, can you tell us if there are any plans for developing a  
> comparable reading and writing test for adult ESL learners?
>
> Jodi
>
>
> On Feb 7, 2008, at 4:25 PM, Cohen, Jonathan wrote:
>
>> Good reply.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
>>
>> Jonathan Cohen
>>
>> Workforce Readiness & Literacy
>>
>> NJ Dept. of Labor & Workforce Development
>>
>>
>>
>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
>> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Michelle Ueland
>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 4:10 PM
>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>> Subject: [Assessment 1158] Re: Observation checklist
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Assessment Listserv Members,
>>
>> It is with great interest that we have been following this  
>> discussion regarding one of our assessments, BEST Plus, and its  
>> use for oral proficiency meaurement on initial placement and  
>> learner progress.
>>
>> As other assessments have been brought into the discussion, we  
>> would like to provide the following clarification, taken verbatim  
>> from the DLIELC Website: http://www.dlielc.org/testing/ 
>> ALCPT.html : "DLIELC conducts English language proficiency testing  
>> using the Oral Proficiency Interview (OPI), a face-to-face or  
>> telephonic interview, and the English Comprehension Level (ECL)  
>> test, a multiple choice test of listening and reading  
>> comprehension. (The ECL test is provided to authorized US  
>> Government users only.) DLIELC also makes available the American  
>> Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT) for English language  
>> programs conducted outside of DLIELC. Achievement testing of  
>> American Language Course (ALC) objectives is conducted using book  
>> quizzes and performance tests, which can be obtained with the  
>> course materials."
>>
>> According to the April 2007 edition of the Handbook for the  
>> American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT): "The most  
>> important consideration under the general topic of test security  
>> is test compromise. One of the easiest ways to compromise any test  
>> is through its inappropriate use." Given the definitions above,  
>> there are many reasons to question the appropriateness of using  
>> any of the above mentioned tests with the adult ESL population in  
>> the U.S.
>>
>> Currently, BEST Plus is the only assessment developed specifically  
>> for use with adult English language learners in educational  
>> programs, which simultaneously measures adults' listening and  
>> speaking skills. As the BEST Plus Level Gain study shows ( http:// 
>> www.cal.org/resources/digest/levelgain.html ), more hours equals  
>> more gains, whether that be during one academic year (intensity of  
>> instruction) or over an adult's lifetime (persistence as a  
>> learner). Furthermore, this study also shows that not only is BEST  
>> Plus appropriate for initial placement, but it is also a good  
>> measure of student progress. In many ways, BEST Plus brings the  
>> knowledge and design of other oral proficiency instruments to the  
>> field of adult ESL in a highly accessible manner. Test  
>> administrations are relatively inexpensive when compared to the  
>> high cost of other oral proficiency assessments, the results  
>> accurate and immediate, and for the first time, instructors are  
>> able to confirm many of their "gut instinct" and "handshake"  
>> evaluations based on their expertise and familiarity with the  
>> adult ESL population in a standardized manner that is scored by a  
>> common rubric.
>>
>> In regard to test administrator training, another advantage to  
>> BEST Plus is that ESL instructors are able to engage in  
>> professional development in the area of proficiency assessment.  
>> Across the country, responses to BEST Plus training are  
>> overwhelmingly positive. Our core of trainers does fantastic work  
>> to educate practitioners about the differences between being a  
>> good teacher and being a good standardized test administrator, in  
>> addition to training test administrators to administer and score  
>> BEST Plus. Furthermore, there are several opportunities for  
>> previously trained test administrators to recalibrate their  
>> scoring accuracy through the use of the Scoring Refresher Toolkit  
>> within their local programs and states. In this way, programs can  
>> confirm their inter-rater reliability, as CAL has also done during  
>> the development and design of BEST Plus. We would encourage anyone  
>> interested in finding out more about the design of BEST Plus and  
>> its high rate of inter-rater reliability to read the BEST Plus  
>> Technical Manual.
>>
>> Finally, we hope that programs using BEST Plus continue to see the  
>> benefits of providing adults ESL learners with data regarding  
>> their oral proficiency level and progress. Particularly adults  
>> with many commitments need this type of information offered at  
>> their convenience       locally by their service providers. By  
>> knowing their levels, program directors and instructors can to  
>> continue to make instructional and programatic decisions based on  
>> learner needs and to assist the learners in their own educational  
>> goal setting.
>>
>> Michelle M. Ueland
>>
>> Adult ESL Assessments
>>
>> Center for Applied Linguistics
>>
>>
>>
>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
>> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:27 PM
>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>> Subject: [Assessment 1157] Re: Observation checklist
>>
>> Ted and all,
>>
>>
>>
>> I imagine others would like to have access to the ALCPT  
>> information as well.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have also given the OPI, not as a certified interviewer but with  
>> a lot of training in its use.  I use it  as part of information  
>> gathering in reviewing programs overseas, to see what various  
>> levels of instruction correspond to in proficiency terms. I  
>> haven't used it with adult ESL population.  Like Mary Margaret, I  
>> have found that it takes about the same amount of time.
>>
>>
>>
>> Do others have the same concerns about the BEST Plus?
>>
>>
>>
>> Jodi
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 7, 2008, at 12:58 PM, Ted Klein wrote:
>>
>>> Jodi,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My wife, Mary Margaret, was a certified OPI interviewer at DLI.  
>>> She says that the average interview was 20 minutes. This depends  
>>> on the interviewee's level. Two people interview. The higher the  
>>> level, the longer the test. It's a really good test. The bad news  
>>> is that there is/was something like a 40% failure rate for  
>>> certification of interviewer among instructors and staff. Some of  
>>> these people were pretty sharp, but doing it is an art and a  
>>> science. There is no question the OPI is the state-of-the-art.  
>>> Even experienced interviewers get frequent tune-ups. I believe  
>>> that the OPI scoring system with the + indicating 60% of the next  
>>> higher level COULD be simplified and adapted to adult education.  
>>> However, if progress has to be shown as often as now, real  
>>> proficiency doesn't change that fast and could cost programs $  
>>> when they submit their paperwork.  IF it were done after maybe  
>>> 120 class hours, there may be significant changes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Although I got the training, I bribe other people to do the BEST  
>>> Plus on my students, including Mary Margaret! I think that it's  
>>> fine for placement, but really doesn't work for "progress" for a  
>>> number of reasons. Even when people are trained to use it  
>>> properly, there is enormous difference, even in how the  
>>> interviewers expresses themselves orally and make scores. If we  
>>> have to continue using the BEST tests, another thing that I would  
>>> like to see is small teams of really good and consistent  
>>> interviewers that do the tests on all of the students. A weak  
>>> measurement system is the Achilles Heel in Adult Education.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would prefer the use of the American Language Course Placement  
>>> Test (ALCPT). If you will give me an e-mail address that is  
>>> convenient, I will send you more information on it from my old  
>>> workshops. It's cheaper, quicker, and quite accurate. I totally  
>>> agree with you that teacher wisdom is also a good way to  
>>> determine where and when the student should move on.  
>>> Unfortunately, many managers don't trust the peasants! There are  
>>> also several good ways to place people that don't involve their  
>>> ability to read the ALCPT.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I put out an Adult Education/ESL Newsletter once in a while. I  
>>> recently did an article on the OPI, which may answer more of the  
>>> questions. Here it is:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Adult Education/ESL News Letter; the Federal Oral Proficiency  
>>> Interview   Jan. 8, 2008    Ted Klein
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For many years the Foreign Service Institute (FSI) of the United  
>>> States conducted interviews of foreign language proficiency to  
>>> measure the understanding and production of languages acquired by  
>>> their staff. This test was also used by some other federal  
>>> agencies and was adapted by some civilian language programs as a  
>>> measure of their graduates. This test expressed performance using  
>>> scores ranging from zero to five. For decades it was the best  
>>> game in town. The problem is that both the interview techniques  
>>> and scoring systems in the FSI exam were not as objective as  
>>> needed for some persons, whose jobs required very            
>>> specific scores that would be important to accomplishment of  
>>> their missions.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Language proficiency testing needs have always depended on the  
>>> terminal objectives of the students. In most cases, a well- 
>>> designed comprehension test is adequate and may be used for  
>>> language class placement, graduation criteria, determination of  
>>> readiness for certain jobs, training, or education, etc. During  
>>> my twenty years with the Defense Language Institute English  
>>> Language Center, all students were tested with the English  
>>> Comprehension Level (ECL) test, which was developed as an overall  
>>> measure of listening and reading skills. This test was developed  
>>> and maintained by individuals whose primary expertise was in  
>>> valid measurement procedures assisted by a team of persons who  
>>> developed multiple choice test items that were based more on  
>>> their language expertise than math. Scores were in a sense  
>>> arbitrary and didn't represent a "percentage" of anything.  
>>> However the use of an ECL test to determine readiness for  
>>> international military personnel from many countries to  
>>> participate in U.S.military training was considered a very  
>>> reliable source of measuring English-language readiness. The test  
>>> measured listening and reading skills and was "loaded" with  
>>> numerous structural, vocabulary and phonological factors. It was  
>>> multiple choice and could be administered in an hour to a large  
>>> group of students. Students went on from DLIELC for training as  
>>> pilots, staff college attendees, electronics specialists, medical  
>>> personnel, etc. and enjoyed a very low failure rate due to  
>>> language factors. Often, the comprehension scores tended to  
>>> reflect competence in spoken English, because most of these  
>>> students had acquired English in a balanced environment of  
>>> listening, speaking, reading and writing skills. The DLIELC  
>>> program itself was fairly uniform in which all American Language  
>>> Course materials were systematically provided for specific  
>>> lengths of time to teaching staff trained to use specific  
>>> methodologies. DLIELC students normally start their training in  
>>> their home countries and later go to Lackland Air Force Base in  
>>> San Antonio to finish general English when their ECL scores meet  
>>> predetermined criteria to continue to continue on to study  
>>> specialized terminology.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In the 1980's a gentleman from the Central Intelligence Agency  
>>> was tasked with the production of a more objective oral language  
>>> measurement system than the FSI exam, with truly meaningful  
>>> scores and criteria. He accomplished that mission and the new  
>>> Oral Proficiency Interview (OPI) examination was designed. That's  
>>> the good news! The bad news is that it is both an art and a  
>>> science to administer. A copy of the criteria and rating factors  
>>> is below. It can be found at the DLIELC website at http:// 
>>> www.dlielc.org/testing/opi_profile.html  This OPI took care of  
>>> the majority of the problems with the older FSI exam, including a  
>>> very tight and variable interview system in which persons were  
>>> taken to their highest level of oral communication. Both  
>>> listening and speaking skills receive a score. The chart below  
>>> reflects whole number judgments with a performance-based  
>>> description of what the person being tested can do           with  
>>> the language. The problem is that even after two weeks of  
>>> training persons to administer the test, there is a rather high  
>>> failure rate among tester candidates. At one time potential  
>>> interviewer failures rates were as high as 40%. Tests are  
>>> administered by pairs of persons who have to agree on a score. I  
>>> have seen persons with graduate degrees in linguistics fail to  
>>> become certified interviewers and persons with much less  
>>> technical expertise succeed and become very competent certified  
>>> interviewers. The OPI is now used in numerous programs throughout  
>>> the military, intelligence and diplomatic communities. It is NOT  
>>> used in place of other valid testing instruments. It is reserved  
>>> as a supplement for persons in which a known language production  
>>> level is required. This may include persons who will be air  
>>> traffic controllers or pilots in which verbal communication  
>>> skills can be critical.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The ROTC programs at the University of Puerto Rico require OPI  
>>> scores for their cadets who become officers in the U.S. military  
>>> establishment. They also have required ECL scores, and candidates  
>>> must also be verbally competent in spoken English to get their  
>>> commissions and succeed in adequate communication for their jobs  
>>> in the military. The required score to enroll in the ROTC program  
>>> is an ECL of 75 and an OPI score of 2/1+. One year later the  
>>> required ECL score is 80 with a 2/2 OPI. To be commissioned in  
>>> the  U.S. Military the required ECL is 90 and the required OPI is  
>>> 2+/2. The first number (2+) reflects listening comprehension and  
>>> the second number reflects speaking ability. When we include the  
>>> + (plus) designation, this means that the candidate performs at  
>>> the next higher level at least 60% of the time. Therefore, if we  
>>> go from 0 (no competence) to five (educated native speaker  
>>> competence) there are eleven possible levels including the  
>>> pluses. The difficult part for most interviewers is reaching the  
>>> candidates' real levels, measuring objectively, and having each  
>>> interview so different from the last one that the possibility of  
>>> compromise through information sharing is very unlikely. An ECL  
>>> score of 90 is equivalent to a TOEFL score of 550, which is  
>>> adequate for an international student to get into many American  
>>> universities. The American Language Course Proficiency Test  
>>> (ALCPT) is made from expired ECL tests and can be made available  
>>> to civilian institutions.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Why am I telling you about all of this? I was in management work  
>>> at DLIELC when the OPI system was introduced and never had reason  
>>> to become a certified interviewer. However, what I find exciting  
>>> is that the OPI Rating Factor Grid below describes the natural  
>>> sequence in which our ESL students acquire English. It is a  
>>> recapitulation of the entire never-ending process of getting a  
>>> new language. I'm guessing           that average competent  
>>> foreign language majors in a good university would graduate with  
>>> a 3/3 OPI score in their target languages. The numbers in the OPI  
>>> can only hint at how long and complicated a process we have to go  
>>> through to really be truly functional in a second language. For  
>>> travelling or living in another country for a while, 2/1+ is a  
>>> very reasonable goal. The chart should give ESL instructors  
>>> strong insight into both teaching objectives and what their  
>>> students are going through.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There is a short general article on my website about language  
>>> testing at
>>>
>>>  http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/lang_tests.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ted
>>>
>>>
>>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>>>   Independent Consultant in Language
>>>          and Intercultural Training
>>>               14456 Agarita Road
>>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>>>              Phone:512-266-1801
>>>               taklein at austin.rr.com
>>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> OPI  RATING  FACTOR  GRID
>>>
>>>
>>> Interactive Comprehension
>>>
>>> Structural Control  Texts Produced
>>> Lexical Control
>>>
>>> Delivery
>>>
>>> Sociolinguistic                 Competence
>>>
>>> Global Tasks and Functions
>>>
>>> 0+
>>>
>>> The individual understands a number of short, memorized  
>>> utterances in areas of immediate needs; frequent, long pauses and  
>>> repeated requests for repetition.
>>>
>>> No control. Can only use memorized structures.
>>>
>>> Individual words and phrases.
>>>
>>> Memorized words and phrases related to immediate survival needs.
>>>
>>> Even in memorized speech, stress, intonation, tone usually quite  
>>> faulty.
>>>
>>> Severely limited.  Any knowledge of cultural appropriateness has  
>>> a nonlinguistic source
>>>
>>> Can make statements and ask questions using memorized material.
>>>
>>> 1
>>>
>>> A native speaker must often use slowed speech, repetition,  
>>> paraphrase, or a combination of these to be understood by this  
>>> individual.  Misunderstandings are frequent, but the individual  
>>> is able to ask for help and to verify comprehension of native  
>>> speech in face-to-face interaction.
>>>
>>> Structural accuracy is random or severely limited.  Almost every  
>>> utterance has errors in basic structures.  Time concepts are  
>>> vague.  Can formulate some questions.
>>>
>>> Discrete sentences.
>>>
>>> Very limited.  Covers courtesy expressions, introductions,  
>>> identification, personal and accommodation needs, daily routine.
>>>
>>> Often speaks with great difficulty. Pronunciation, stress,  
>>> intonation generally poor.
>>>
>>> Uses greetings and courtesy expressions.  Can interact with  
>>> native speakers used to dealing with non-natives.
>>>
>>> Can create sentences; begin, maintain, and close short  
>>> conversations by asking and answering simple questions; satisfy  
>>> simple daily needs.
>>>
>>> 2
>>>
>>> The individual can get the gist of most everyday conversations,  
>>> but has some difficulty understanding native speakers in  
>>> situations that require a specialized or sophisticated  
>>> knowledge.  (May require a native speaker to adjust to his/her  
>>> limitations in some way).
>>>
>>> Discourse is minimally cohesive.  Grammatical structures are  
>>> usually not very elaborate and not thoroughly controlled; errors  
>>> are frequent.  Simple structure and basic grammatical relations  
>>> are typically controlled.
>>>
>>> Full paragraphs.
>>>
>>> Sufficient to discuss high frequency concrete topics such as  
>>> work, family, personal                 background and interests,  
>>> travel, current events.                  Imprecise for less  
>>> common topics.
>>>
>>> Speaks with confidence but not facility.  Can usually be  
>>> understood by those not used to dealing with non-natives.
>>>
>>> Satisfies routine social demands and limited work requirements.   
>>> Can interact with native speakers not used to dealing with non- 
>>> natives; native speakers may have to adjust to limitations.
>>>
>>> Can describe people, places, and things; narrate current, past,  
>>> and future activities in full                 paragraphs; state  
>>> facts; give instructions or directions; ask                 and  
>>> answer questions in the work place; deal with non-routine daily  
>>> situations.
>>>
>>> 3
>>>
>>> In face-to-face conversation with natives speaking the standard  
>>> dialect at a normal rate of speech, comprehension is quite  
>>> complete.  Although cultural references, proverbs, and the  
>>> implications of nuances and idiom may not be fully understood,  
>>> the individual can easily repair the conversation.
>>>
>>> Effectively combines structure and vocabulary to convey meaning.  
>>> Discourse is cohesive.  Use of structural devices is flexible and  
>>> elaborate.  Errors occur in low frequency and highly complex  
>>> structures; but structural inaccuracy rarely causes  
>>> misunderstanding.
>>>
>>> Extended discourse.
>>>
>>> Broad enough for effective formal and informal conversations on  
>>> practical, social, and professional topics.  Can convey  
>>> abstract                 concepts.
>>>
>>> Speaks readily and fills pauses suitably.  Pronunciation may be  
>>> obviously foreign. Flaws in stress, intonation, pitch rarely  
>>> disturb the native speaker.
>>>
>>> Uses cultural references.  When errors are made, can easily  
>>> repair the                 conversation.
>>>
>>> Can converse extensively in formal and informal situations;  
>>> discuss abstract topics; support                 opinions;  
>>> hypothesize; deal with unfamiliar topics and situations; clarify  
>>> points.
>>>
>>> 4
>>>
>>> Can understand native speakers of the standard and other major  
>>> dialects in  essentially any face-to-face interaction.  Can  
>>> understand the details and ramifications of concepts that are  
>>> culturally or conceptually different from his/her own.   
>>> Understands shifts of both subject matter and tone.
>>>
>>> Organizes discourse well, using appropriate rhetorical devices  
>>> and high level discourse structures.
>>>
>>> Speeches, lectures, debates,
>>>
>>> conference discussions.
>>>
>>> Precise for representational                 purposes within  
>>> personal and professional experience.  Can elaborate concepts  
>>> freely; choose appropriate words to convey                  
>>> nuances of meaning.
>>>
>>> Speaks effortlessly and smoothly, but would seldom be perceived  
>>> as a native speaker.
>>>
>>> Uses and understands details and ramifications of target cultural  
>>> references. Can set and shift the tone of exchanges with a  
>>> variety of native speakers.
>>>
>>> Can tailor language to fit the audience; counsel; persuade;  
>>> represent an official point of                 view; negotiate;  
>>> advocate a position at length; interpret informally.
>>>
>>> 5
>>>
>>> (No gaps in comprehension, including all details  
>>> and                 nuances.)
>>>
>>> Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated  
>>> native speaker.
>>>
>>> All texts controlled by a highly articulate, well-educated native  
>>> speaker.
>>>
>>> Breadth of vocabulary and                 idiom equivalent to  
>>> that of a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.
>>>
>>> Functionally equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated  
>>> native speaker of a standard dialect.
>>>
>>> Speech reflects the cultural standards of country where language  
>>> is natively spoken.
>>>
>>> Functionally equivalent to a                 highly articulate,  
>>> well-educated native speaker.
>>>
>>> DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03 (Reverse)
>>>
>>> OPI  PERFORMANCE  PROFILE
>>> RATERS
>>>
>>> DATE
>>>
>>> Check One:
>>>
>>> C
>>>
>>> S
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ENTRY
>>>
>>> Mid
>>>
>>> Exit
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> SCN/TEL OPI CODE
>>>
>>> RANK/NAME
>>>
>>> CY
>>>
>>> GRAD                 DATE
>>>
>>> SET CODE
>>>
>>> TEACHER/ROOM NO.
>>>
>>> VERIFICATION
>>>
>>> Interactive Comprehension
>>>
>>> Structural Control / Texts Produced
>>>
>>> Lexical Control
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Delivery
>>>
>>> Sociolinguistic Competence
>>>
>>> Global Tasks and Functions
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
>>>
>>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>>
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:45 AM
>>>
>>> Subject: [Assessment 1149] Re: Observation checklist
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ted,
>>>
>>> Did you use an oral proficiency interview at the Defense Language
>>> Institute?  If so, how log did it take to administer to each  
>>> student?  I
>>> think time is a real barrier to most adult ESL/ESOL programs.   
>>> Thus, they
>>> use tests that can be administered to students as a group and easily
>>> evaluated.
>>>
>>> For some college programs for international students, a whole  
>>> range of
>>> tests are used for placement, including a writing sample, a  
>>> reading test,
>>> and an oral interview.  Clearly that's more possible with smaller  
>>> numbers
>>> of students who are also paying for the classes.
>>>
>>> What do you think is needed in the way of tests?  In Passing the  
>>> Torch,
>>> Forrest and I point to assessment as a major issue facing all the  
>>> colleges
>>> we studied.  We recommend the development of a test of all four  
>>> skills
>>> that, if possible, could be administered and scored in a  
>>> reasonable amount
>>> of time.
>>>
>>> Have you tried the BEST Plus test?  What has been your experience  
>>> with
>>> that test?
>>>
>>> I agree that for placement at literacy levels, a simple test  
>>> developed by
>>> a program might be sufficient.
>>>
>>> I also think that for progress through the levels, student  
>>> achievement in
>>> the previous class, as judged by the instructor ("professional  
>>> wisdom"),
>>> is still the best determiner of whether a student is ready to go  
>>> to the
>>> next level.
>>>
>>> Jodi
>>>
>>>
>>> > Jodi,
>>> >
>>> > Same here! As long as the BEST Test is used to show gains, I'm  
>>> afraid that
>>> > there isn't much chance that REAL gains could be charted and  
>>> compared. It
>>> > is used too often to measure progress and is not as  
>>> good           for that purpose
>>> > as one would hope. Really valid proficiency tests are the only  
>>> way to
>>> > prove the point. Achievement tests don't tell much in terms of  
>>> overall
>>> > progress. I would also guess that it would take a minimum of  
>>> 120 hours of
>>> > solid training to have a measureable level with any test that  
>>> one could
>>> > play numbers with. Other factors including attendance, etc.  
>>> would have to
>>> > be factored in. Adults have families and jobs in the way of total
>>> > dedication to attendance. Also, one would have to have a test  
>>> in which
>>> > human judgment would play a small role. The BEST is fine for  
>>> its original
>>> > purpose, which was to place persons with others at their same  
>>> levels of
>>> > communication. Good measurement is the only way to prove  
>>> anything. I often
>>> > rely on plain old gut instincts to figure how things are really  
>>> going. I
>>> > know that's not very scientific.
>>> >
>>> > Cheers,  Ted
>>> > www.tedklein-ESL.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
>>> > To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:05 PM
>>> > Subject: [Assessment 1138] Re: Observation checklist
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Hi, Ted.  Glad to make contact again.
>>> >
>>> > I definitely agree that smaller classes are more likely to  
>>> bring learner
>>> > gains, especially in language, since students will have more  
>>> opportunity
>>> > to speak when there are fewer students.  I didn't know about  
>>> the DLI
>>> > policy, but it is a good one.  The problem with adult ESL  
>>> classes, I fear,
>>> > is that there is such limited money available that programs  
>>> would find it
>>> > difficult to keep class size to these numbers.
>>> >
>>> > Has anyone tried to reduce class size and chart the learning  
>>> gains?  If
>>> > so, please share with us all.  It might be that this would be a  
>>> good
>>> > investment.  If students in smaller classes make faster gains,  
>>> then there
>>> > would be more spaces available as these students transitioned  
>>> to other
>>> > classes or the workforce.
>>> >
>>> > Jodi
>>> >
>>> > Hi Jodi,
>>> >>
>>> >> Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times  
>>> in the
>>> >> past,
>>> >> I think at least once when you visited the Defense Language  
>>> Institute
>>> >> English Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I
>>> >> mention
>>> >> DLI is that it represents a language program with little  
>>> leeway to fail.
>>> >> I
>>> >> spent 20 years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is  
>>> to train
>>> >> allied and friendly military personnel worldwide in general and
>>> >> specialized English. Most students start ESL in their home  
>>> countries
>>> >> with
>>> >> DLIELC personnel advising, and in some cases teaching, in  
>>> these overseas
>>> >> military language centers. It may still be the largest  
>>> language program
>>> >> in
>>> >> the world. Students after reaching certain levels go to  
>>> Lackland Air
>>> >> Force
>>> >> Base in San Antonio, complete their general English, usually  
>>> go through
>>> >> specialized terminology and then on to whatever training their  
>>> country
>>> >> needs with the U.S. military. Students have run the full gamut  
>>> from
>>> >> recruits and NCO's up to generals and admirals. This is a very  
>>> tightly
>>> >> organized "well-packaged" language program with predictable  
>>> training
>>> >> times
>>> >> and results.
>>> >>
>>> >> Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb  
>>> while I was at
>>> >> at DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum.  
>>> This was
>>> >> rarely broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters'  
>>> bean
>>> >> counter would calculate that if a mere two or three students  
>>> could be
>>> >> added to a class, voila, look at the money we would save! This  
>>> money
>>> >> came
>>> >> both from foreign governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue  
>>> and then
>>> >> try
>>> >> it, I believe several times over the years. However, in an  
>>> organization
>>> >> that has a very effective testing system; both achievement and
>>> >> proficiency, it was soon noticed that the scores were going  
>>> down, just
>>> >> enough so that they could prove that no money was being saved  
>>> on teacher
>>> >> salaries and other expenses. I spent three years with the  
>>> Royal Thai
>>> >> Navy
>>> >> for DLI as language training advisor and remember having to  
>>> twist arms
>>> >> with the RTN Navy Education Department with the same problem.  
>>> They
>>> >> wanted
>>> >> 15 in a class.
>>> >>
>>> >> Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during  
>>> my last
>>> >> eight years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes  
>>> have
>>> >> consistently been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an
>>> >> organization is stuck with a low budget, make the hours of  
>>> training per
>>> >> week lower, but keep the class sizes within 10 or so students.  
>>> Fewer
>>> >> hours
>>> >> of really effective training are certainly better than large  
>>> classes
>>> >> where
>>> >> the student attention level and collegiality are reduced. I  
>>> remember
>>> >> Mary
>>> >> Finocchiaro saying years ago that she didn't care how many  
>>> students were
>>> >> in her classroom, she would teach them! Unfortunately, most of  
>>> us just
>>> >> aren't THAT dynamic.
>>> >>
>>> >> Cheers,  Ted
>>> >> www.tedklein-ESL.com
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
>>> >> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>>> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM
>>> >> Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Usha,
>>> >>
>>> >> I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
>>> >> experience that with more than 10 students, learning  
>>> decreases?  If so,
>>> >> how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be
>>> >> interested
>>> >> in ways to decrease class size.
>>> >>
>>> >> It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
>>> >> constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more
>>> >> important
>>> >> to involve them in activities in which all get to participate,  
>>> which
>>> >> means
>>> >> less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even  
>>> small classes
>>> >> need that.
>>> >>
>>> >> What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?
>>> >>
>>> >> You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop  
>>> out of
>>> >> classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any  
>>> of you
>>> >> keep
>>> >> records of your students that would identify those who do  
>>> return?  Do
>>> >> you
>>> >> have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning  
>>> English
>>> >> outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know  
>>> of any
>>> >> research about adult English Language Learners in  
>>> this           area, but there
>>> >> is
>>> >> an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State
>>> >> University
>>> >> following adult literacy level students for several years.   
>>> They have
>>> >> identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside  
>>> of the
>>> >> classroom and also that some of these learners come back to  
>>> classes
>>> >> after
>>> >> being out of them for some time.
>>> >>
>>> >> Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of  
>>> you been
>>> >> able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of  
>>> these
>>> >> services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have  
>>> been most
>>> >> effective? If you teach in a community college, have your  
>>> students had
>>> >> access to the various support services provided to  
>>> other           students?
>>> >>
>>> >> Several of you have talked about the differences in progress  
>>> made by
>>> >> students with more advanced education and those who are at  
>>> literacy
>>> >> level.
>>> >>  Because literacy level students take longer in making  
>>> progress, most
>>> >> programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and
>>> >> literate
>>> >> beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and  
>>> literacy
>>> >> will
>>> >> need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to  
>>> talk about
>>> >> what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about
>>> >> persistence
>>> >> of literacy level students and their learning gains.
>>> >>
>>> >> Students with advanced education in their own language may be  
>>> able to
>>> >> have
>>> >> a condensed program since they are already experienced as  
>>> students and
>>> >> often have high motivation to get through English so that they  
>>> can take
>>> >> courses related to their previous or future career.  City  
>>> College of San
>>> >> Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters  
>>> worth of
>>> >> work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer  
>>> something along
>>> >> these lines?
>>> >>
>>> >> Jodi
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked  
>>> the tool
>>> >>> that
>>> >>> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope  
>>> that it
>>> >>> is
>>> >>> not
>>> >>> something that has already been asked and answered.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most  
>>> of our ESL
>>> >>> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal  
>>> constraints
>>> >>> and
>>> >>> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a  
>>> positive
>>> >>> to
>>> >>> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we  
>>> expect to see
>>> >>> more
>>> >>> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain  
>>> the numbers.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy  
>>> programs
>>> >>> because of many socio-economic factors.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing  
>>> market (in
>>> >>> past
>>> >>> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to  
>>> stay in
>>> >>> one
>>> >>> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen  
>>> more in
>>> >>> people
>>> >>> who do not have high levels of education from their native  
>>> country).
>>> >>>
>>> >>> People with a certain level of education (college degrees  
>>> from their
>>> >>> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some  
>>> kind of
>>> >>> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs,  
>>> go in and
>>> >>> out
>>> >>> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of  
>>> various
>>> >>> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and  
>>> have no time
>>> >>> to
>>> >>> practice.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in  
>>> educational
>>> >>> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
>>> >>> availability
>>> >>> of  community resources.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Usha Narayanan
>>> >>> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
>>> >>> California
>>> >>> 408-522-2737
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> Marie,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and  
>>> out of the
>>> >>>> U.S.A.
>>> >>>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc.  
>>> in ESL.
>>> >>>> It
>>> >>>> is
>>> >>>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say  
>>> that I'm
>>> >>>> back
>>> >>>> in the
>>> >>>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with  
>>> the Defense
>>> >>>> Language
>>> >>>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching  
>>> immigrants part
>>> >>>> time for
>>> >>>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at  
>>> Austin
>>> >>>> Community
>>> >>>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of  
>>> what language
>>> >>>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to  
>>> work at a
>>> >>>> higher
>>> >>>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope  
>>> that I
>>> >>>> apply
>>> >>>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the  
>>> "easy
>>> >>>> traps."
>>> >>>> I
>>> >>>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
>>> >>>> interested and
>>> >>>> it is published on my website at
>>> >>>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html             
>>> Feel absolutely free
>>> >>>> to use
>>> >>>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank  
>>> you very
>>> >>>> much for
>>> >>>> the input. Questions are welcome.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Cheers,   Ted
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>>> >>>>   Independent Consultant in Language
>>> >>>>          and Intercultural Training
>>> >>>>               14456 Agarita Road
>>> >>>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>>> >>>>              Phone:512-266-1801
>>> >>>>             taklein at austin.rr.com  
>>> <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
>>> >>>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Hi  Ted,
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it
>>> >>>>> yourself?
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you  
>>> about           it:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you  
>>> deliberately try
>>> >>>>> to
>>> >>>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or  
>>> do others
>>> >>>>> you
>>> >>>>> work with?
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the
>>> >>>>> students
>>> >>>>> advance?
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Marie
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> >>>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>>> >>>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
>>> >>>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
>>> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
>>> >>>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>>> >>>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Marie,
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Ted
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
>>> >>>>>>  NO
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>    supportive personality?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>    other and the instructor?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>     target language  proficiency?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>     than push them?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>     exaggerated speech?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>     results?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> ---- Original Message -----
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Hello  everyone,
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on   
>>> regarding
>>> >>>>>>> your
>>> >>>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students   
>>> advance??  I was
>>> >>>>>>> very
>>> >>>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types  
>>> of issues
>>> >>>>>>> that
>>> >>>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a  
>>> lack of
>>> >>>>>>> intensity
>>> >>>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
>>> >>>>>>> opportunities
>>> >>>>>>> for  professional development.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel  
>>> inhibit the ESL
>>> >>>>>>> student
>>> >>>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about             
>>> that?
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Thanks!
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>> >>>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> -------------------------------
>>> >>>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>> >>>>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>> >>>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> >>>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings,  
>>> please go to
>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> >>>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> -------------------------------
>>> >>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
>>> >>>>> Assessment mailing list
>>> >>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings,  
>>> please go to
>>> >>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> >>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> -------------------------------
>>> >>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>> >>>> Assessment mailing list
>>> >>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> >>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please  
>>> go to
>>> >>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> >>>> Email delivered to usha_narayanan at fuhsd.org
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Scanned by Barracuda Spam Firewall
>>> >>> -------------------------------
>>> >>> National Institute for Literacy
>>> >>> Assessment mailing list
>>> >>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> >>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please  
>>> go to
>>> >>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> >>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>>> >> Professor, Education Department
>>> >> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
>>> >> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in
>>> >> ESOL/Bilingual
>>> >> Education
>>> >> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
>>> >> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
>>> >> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
>>> >> email: crandall at umbc.edu
>>> >> www.umbc.edu/llc/
>>> >> www.umbc.edu/esol/
>>> >> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> -------------------------------
>>> >> National Institute for Literacy
>>> >> Assessment mailing list
>>> >> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>> >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> >> Email delivered to  
>>> taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
>>> >> National Institute for Literacy
>>> >> Assessment mailing list
>>> >> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>> >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> >> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>>> > Professor, Education Department
>>> > Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
>>> > Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/ 
>>> Bilingual
>>> > Education
>>> > University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
>>> > 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
>>> > ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
>>> > email: crandall at umbc.edu
>>> > www.umbc.edu/llc/
>>> > www.umbc.edu/esol/
>>> > www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -------------------------------
>>> > National Institute for Literacy
>>> > Assessment mailing list
>>> > Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> > Email delivered to  
>>> taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
>>> > National Institute for Literacy
>>> > Assessment mailing list
>>> > Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> > Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>>> Professor, Education Department
>>> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
>>> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/ 
>>> Bilingual
>>> Education
>>> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
>>> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
>>> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
>>> email: crandall at umbc.edu
>>> www.umbc.edu/llc/
>>> www.umbc.edu/esol/
>>> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>> Assessment mailing list
>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com
>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>>
>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>>
>>> Assessment mailing list
>>>
>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>>
>>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>>
>>
>> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>>
>> Professor and Director
>>
>> Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
>>
>> Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual  
>> Education
>>
>> University of Maryland Baltimore County
>>
>> 1000 Hilltop Circle
>>
>> Baltimore, MD 21250
>>
>> tel:  410-455-2313
>>
>> fax: 410-455-8947
>>
>> eml: crandall at umbc.edu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>
> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Professor and Director
> Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
> Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual  
> Education
> University of Maryland Baltimore County
> 1000 Hilltop Circle
> Baltimore, MD 21250
> tel:  410-455-2313
> fax: 410-455-8947
> eml: crandall at umbc.edu
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor and Director
Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
University of Maryland Baltimore County
1000 Hilltop Circle
Baltimore, MD 21250
tel:  410-455-2313
fax: 410-455-8947
eml: crandall at umbc.edu




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From crandall at umbc.edu  Fri Feb  8 19:18:32 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (Jodi Crandall)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 19:18:32 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1218] Re: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <8CA38BF2D34BD1E-964-5EC9@webmail-md20.sysops.aol.com>
References: <CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B2E@exchr.raritanval.edu>	<007201c86a04$26b41a50$741c4ef0$@net>	<CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B3C@exchr.raritanval.edu>	<001f01c86a69$364ee6b0$a2ecb410$@net>	<8CA3889EA7B2E7B-1014-2817@webmailbeta-m10.sysops.aol.com>	<9896493C-9886-4CD1-8578-D7DD25EEE11D@umbc.edu>
	<009d01c86a9f$35a66220$a0f32660$@net>
	<8CA38BF2D34BD1E-964-5EC9@webmail-md20.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <24440CEA-3312-4FF7-9B7F-EF85D287A81E@umbc.edu>

Joanne,

I think what you are demonstrating is the importance of personal  
contacts.  I guess I'd also like to see some kind of structure to  
facilitate these, but if person-to-person works in your community,  
that's great.

My worry is about those who do fall through the cracks -- who don't  
know where to go or where to go next.

Jodi
On Feb 8, 2008, at 6:12 PM, jhalaesl at aol.com wrote:

>
>
> Forrest - you are on target with your comments about the CBO- 
> college connection, or lack thereof. And yes many fall through the  
> cracks. Hence my previous comments about having contacts. This is  
> not a systematized network of contacts (I'm a tad cynical about  
> that route), but those in one's personal/professional circle--the  
> people who can tell us when/if the system can be flexed, or not.
>
> Without those contacts it would be very difficult for me to refer  
> ESL students from our CBO program (FYI much time and effort spent  
> ensuring that our programs are high-quality, accountable, and  
> learner-driven) to other providers, including the college. Our  
> students place a great deal of trust in our willingness and ability  
> to help them get the education they need at a price/time/place that  
> works. When I make a referral, it is a personal one, preceded by my  
> phone call/e-mail to the contact. And always including my/their  
> follow-up.
>
>
> Fortunately the people on the other end of the referral know to  
> refer back to me if their program is not suitable.
> Joanne
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net>
> To: 'The Assessment Discussion List' <assessment at nifl.gov>
> Sent: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 5:08 pm
> Subject: [Assessment 1208] Re: (no subject)
>
> Joanne,
>
> I?m interested in the question Jodi asks too. As I understand it,  
> local literacy councils have been on the wane, but I hope I?m wrong  
> about that.
>
> I?m aware that CBO?s are the federal/state grant providers in some  
> areas, although nationwide (according to DOE surveys anyway) they  
> serve a far smaller percentage of students than do LEA?s and  
> colleges. I mean them no disrespect.  I?ve seen some that were  
> highly professionalized and provided superb service, and some that  
> didn?t  -- just like colleges and LEA?s J! It?s the quality of the  
> provider, not the type of provider that matters.
>
> What interests me more is your reference to the implicit ?division  
> of labor? between CBO?s and colleges or LEA?s you mention. I think  
> that in some areas this is fairly common: colleges or LEA?s refer  
> the lowest level students to CBO?s (with or without the necessary  
> funding). In most of the cases where I?ve seen this, it doesn?t  
> seem to work out very well. There isn?t the coordination/ 
> collaboration to which you allude. In fact, I?ve sometimes had the  
> impression that it?s a way of dumping the hardest to serve students  
> on CBO?s. Too often these students become ?out of sight and out of  
> mind.? And because the students ARE the hardest to serve, low  
> success rates make the CBO?s look bad, compared to the other  
> providers ? unfairly. I?ve tried to chase down information about  
> this model in the past, but I haven?t been very successful. I would  
> love to know if any of the rest of you have experience with it, and  
> how well you think it works.
>
> Forrest
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 1:09 PM
> To: The Assessment Discussion List
> Subject: [Assessment 1191] Re: (no subject)
>
> Joanne,
>
> Bravo!  Making connections with such limited funds is critical.  I  
> remember when major cities had  councils which coordinated literacy/ 
> ESL services.  I wonder if any of you have some kind of even an   
> informal network that meets to discuss the most efficient and  
> effective ways to use the minimal funds that are available.
> Jodi
>
> On Feb 8, 2008, at 11:50 AM, jhalaesl at aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Not always the reason for an LEA-to-local college turnover of those  
> federal and state adult ed funds
> In my experience, it has simply and sadly been the result of  
> limited resources and insufficient funds.
> And in some areas a CBO (not an LEA) manages those grant programs,  
> offers classes free to the lowest literacy ESL/ESOL students, and  
> is never able to fully bridge the gap between very part-time  
> instruction and college.
>
> One key element to our small successes has been having colleagues  
> in each institution (local college, LEA, CBO, gov't DOE/DOL) who  
> understand the dynamics and the gaps. Granted, most are still  
> limited by the systems in which they work and to which they must be  
> accountable. But there is still much to be said for permitting  
> ourselves some case-by-case thinking, making those simple phone  
> calls, and asking.
>
> Joanne Hala
> Literacy Serrvices
> Jointure for Community Adult Education, Inc.
> ?ve heard an increasing number of stories about areas were the LEA  
> runs the federal/state  adult education ESL grant program and has  
> asked the local college to take it over (because the LEA has  
> concluded it?s an ?adult? program). Have there been any rumblings  
> of that in your area?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net>
> To: 'The Assessment Discussion List' <assessment at nifl.gov>
> Sent: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 10:42 am
> Subject: [Assessment 1179] Re: (no subject)
> Kevin,
>
> Thanks for the explanation. I find it VERY useful. It?s a very  
> interesting model. I?m not surprised that your students are  
> motivated for college, because they?ve signed up for a college prep  
> track! What worries me are the limited aspirations of many lower  
> level ESL students who may have college potential.
>
> I understand now why you don?t have the resources to operate a more  
> comprehensive program. I?ve heard an increasing number of stories  
> about areas were the LEA runs the federal/state  adult education  
> ESL grant program and has asked the local college to take it over  
> (because the LEA has concluded it?s an ?adult? program). Have there  
> been any rumblings of that in your area?
>
> Best of luck in your good work.
>
> Forrest
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 9:42 AM
> To: The Assessment Discussion List; The Assessment Discussion List
> Subject: [Assessment 1174] Re: (no subject)
>
> I believe we do have a hard time getting enough students fed into  
> our program and with the appropriate background to succeed if they  
> do come to us. It is a real problem. There are some workplace ESL  
> programs which are run through our Corporate and Continuing  
> Education Office, but those students rarely, if ever, come to us.  
> And they serve the employees of specific companies as opposed to  
> the community at large.
>
> Our ESL program is within an academic department in the college  
> (Communication and Languages) and so is run like every other. ESL  
> students pay the same tuition and fees as all other students at the  
> college. We do not receive special government funding beyond what  
> the state and counties provide for the college as a whole as a part  
> of our yearly budget.
>
> Finances are probably a big reason why we are getting fewer  
> students at the low levels. Community programs are free or low  
> cost; although in the scheme of higher education, the community  
> college is less expensive, it may still be out of reach of many  
> students.
>
> In terms of having a more comprehensive program, we are limited by  
> a small staff, and the unlikelihood of being able to expand given  
> college budgeting restraints. In addition, our three full-time  
> faculty members (including myself) not only teach 15 credit hours  
> per semester but also do the administrative work required. We do  
> advising, scheduling, and the many other tasks associate with  
> keeping the program afloat. The only "official" administrative  
> support for the program is through the 3 hours of overload I  
> receive to serve as Adjunct Coordinator.
>
> The belief that they can attend college does not seem to be a  
> problem with our population although I can certainly see that it  
> could be. A growing problem for us (and many around the country) is  
> the disconnect between high schools and colleges in terms of  
> student preparation. Either the high schools do not think the  
> students are college-bound and so don't bother to give them a  
> college-prep course of study, or there is simply a growing gap  
> between the expectations of each. Additionally, students seem to  
> think that a high school diploma equates to college readiness.
>
> We do our best to advise students, but we don't always have enough  
> time - and as professors primarily - may not know ourselves what  
> all of the options for students are.
>
> Kevin
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Forrest Chisman
> Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 10:38 PM
> To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
> Subject: [Assessment 1172] Re: (no subject)
> Dear Kevin,
>
> Many thanks for providing all of us with a profile of your program.  
> Seeing the variety of college program goals and designs is  
> extremely valuable in stimulating ideas about how to do a better  
> job in delivering ESL.
>
> Personally, I think that it is perfectly valid for colleges to  
> elect to offer solely pre-academic ESL at the non-credit level. But  
> it does prompt the concern about whether other programs in the  
> college?s service area are providing non-academic ESL to large  
> enough numbers of students and at a high enough quality to ?feed?  
> the college program ? as well as how well their efforts articulate  
> with yours. I wonder whether this troubles you, and if so whether/ 
> how you have addressed the issue.  Frankly, I think one reason why  
> many colleges offer comprehensive ESL programs is that they would  
> prefer to ?make? pre-academic students themselves, rather than rely  
> on others to do it. Another reason, of course, if that they may not  
> be eligible for federal/state grant money unless they offer  
> comprehensive programs. Does your college receive these funds to  
> support its pre-academic program? If not, how is it supported  
> financially?
>
> I heartily agree that helping students set realistic goals and  
> understand their options is essential. I believe, however, that  
> encouraging students to expand their goals as they succeed is also  
> essential. For example, many immigrants come from countries where  
> going to college is the privilege of very few, and thus may  
> consider that an unrealistic goal  unless they are encouraged to  
> take the steps necessary (often one step at a time). The problem  
> seems to be that it is hard for most programs to find the resources  
> to provide very much guidance of any of these kinds to most  
> students. I wonder if anyone has any solutions to THAT issue.
>
> In any event, many thanks for fleshing out an interesting model.
>
> Forrest
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:19 PM
> To: assessment at nifl.gov
> Subject: [Assessment 1148] (no subject)
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have been reading most of the discussion comments and wanted to  
> address a few issues. First, however, I'll give a summary of our  
> program.
>
> I teach ESL at Raritan Valley Community College in New Jersey. Our  
> program serves approximately 350 students from diverse language  
> backgrounds. Our program offers two pre-academic levels of all  
> skills ESL instruction (a six hour per week non-credit class). In  
> addition, we have 5 levels of academic ESL preparation divided into  
> three courses - Reading/Writing, Grammar, and Speaking/Listening).  
> Our highest level Reading/Writing course gives successful students  
> 6 elective credits that count towards RVCC graduation, but those  
> credits do not transfer. Our semesters are 15 weeks. If a student  
> misses 20% of any class, the instructor may withdraw that student  
> (they are not, however, obliged to withdraw these students). At the  
> moment, the late enrollment policy is that students may register  
> for a course prior to the second week of class but not thereafter.  
> Research, of course, indicates that students who begin a class late  
> have a much higher rate of failure than those who begin on time.
>
> In our program, we have three full-time faculty and approximately  
> 16-18 adjuncts.
>
> We have focused our program on academic prep ESL because we are a  
> small program with limited resources, and we have a very difficult  
> time finding qualified adjuncts. Also, a significant majority of  
> our students have signalled their intention to obtain a college  
> degree. Moreover, there are community programs that offer basic  
> English skills although there is often a long waiting list to  
> obtain the services. In other issues, we use the Accuplacer ESL  
> test for placement and have in-house standardized tests at the end  
> of each level of grammar and reading/writing
>
> Within our classes, highly educated non-native speakers usually  
> progress much more quickly. One of the most challenging groups is  
> students who graduated from local high schools but still have  
> inadequate English skills - and not infrequently, weak academic  
> skills in general. One of the strategies that I would personally  
> wish for is real communication between K-12 and community colleges  
> so that students get the language skills they need before they  
> enter college. I understand that there is great pressure to move  
> students out of ESL in many school districts, but ultimately, it  
> does a huge disservice both financially and in terms of motivation  
> to students whose skills remain more BICS than CALP.
>
> I agree with those who suggest that first language literacy issues  
> should be addressed before students enter ESL. However, it becomes  
> complicated to find funding and support for such efforts. In my  
> experience, students with low level literacy skills become  
> frustrated and are not ultimately successful - probably by any  
> definition. I am uncomfortable with the idea that they are spending  
> hard-earned money when the chances for success in ESL are minimal.  
> We advise students that the program is academically-oriented; often  
> they have little understanding of what that means.
>
> I do not agree with the suggestion that the bar be lowered so that  
> students with low-intermediate skills be allowed in credit classes  
> (at least at my college). Historically, other faculty have little  
> experience handling language issues and are very unhappy when  
> students cannot read, write and converse at an appropriate level of  
> English. They end up feeling helpless. Students may pass classes;  
> however, I suspect that instructors do not want to deal with the  
> challenges and so turn a blind eye and let them through. Recently,  
> there has been a problem in the nursing department with non-native  
> English speaking students not passing board exams because they  
> enter the college from other programs and circumvent ESL with us.  
> They have trouble reading and answering questions on the exam. This  
> is a significant problem because nursing programs are judged in  
> terms of the success of their students on these standardized exams.
>
> I think the measure of success should be based on a realistic  
> assessment of student goals combined with a real-life discussion of  
> the possibilities and limitations. Ideally, students would have  
> incremental goals so that success could build. If the goals for  
> students with low literacy levels are not carefully discussed and  
> planned, then they will likely encounter more failure than success  
> because their expectaions will be unrealistic. The more we have the  
> opportunity to talk to students, the more likely it is that they  
> can develop short-term goals that are within their reach.  
> Unfortunately, we have no control over the myriad of complications  
> that accrue in their every day lives.
>
> Apologies for the length.
>
> Kevin Hinkle, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor of ESL/Adjunct Coordinator
> -------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> National Institute for Literacy
>
>
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>
>
>
>
> Assessment mailing list
>
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> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>
> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Professor and Director
> Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
> Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual  
> Education
> University of Maryland Baltimore County
> 1000 Hilltop Circle
> Baltimore, MD 21250
> tel:  410-455-2313
> fax: 410-455-8947
> eml: crandall at umbc.edu
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JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor and Director
Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
University of Maryland Baltimore County
1000 Hilltop Circle
Baltimore, MD 21250
tel:  410-455-2313
fax: 410-455-8947
eml: crandall at umbc.edu




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From bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net  Fri Feb  8 19:33:02 2008
From: bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net (Bonnie Odiorne)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 16:33:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Assessment 1219] Re: Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
	Instruction--registration opens
Message-ID: <948347.18120.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

I am going to try the course; I just registered. As I've been following the discussion with interest, I've been very intrigued by the issue of multiple ihntelligences as they impact college transition, differentiated classrooms (from the point of view of skills levels as well as intrinsic motivation) and the increasing number of "developmental" students, regardless of their educational backgrounds. If colleges and universities could get out of the "developmental" model to a curriculum revision model that enhances instructional changes (faculty are now talking about Bloom's taxonomy as a starting point for curriculum revision), including differentiated instruction... I do this wearing several hats: while I was in adult education previously, in various ABE/ESOL programs, including tutor training (so the comments about CBOs and standards for volunteers is a very difficult topic), family, workplace, employability with technological enhancement literacy
 programs ccombining ABE and ESOL students, I am now teaching French (?!; it used to be ESOL but the university did away with its formalized program) developmental English composition, freshman college success seminars, working with a summer "bridge" program for at risk students, and I am also director of the university writing center. Writing across the curriculum, writing to learn, and multiple intelligences seemed to me to be answers to the differentiated classroom. I also identify with funding: my jobs are both part-time... and assesment (I work with the learning center to administer Accuplacer). We also have a lot of developmental problems with online students so I do writing center advising electronically....
Coincidentally, I'd been invited to facilitate an Oakland Unified Schools District ESOL teachers' retreat with a mindfulness activity (I chose walking the labyrinth) in relation to multiple intelligences, but I couldn't get the life scan fingerprinting done in time, alas. I may have some role in this program but I'm not quite sure what. In any event, when things come together like this, I tend to listen up,  so thought I needed to take advantage of the opportunity to take the course. 
Cheers, all you dedicated practitioners out there. 
Bonnie Odiorne, Ph.D. Post University Waterbury CT
----- Original Message ----
From: Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2008 1:38:48 PM
Subject: [Assessment 1194] Re: Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated Instruction--registration opens


Very interesting. Anyone going to try it?
 
Forrest
 
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Kaye Beall
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:41 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1181] Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated Instruction--registration opens
 
World Education is pleased to offer Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated Instruction as an online training. 
 
The course syllabus and registration details are attached. Contact Kaye Beall at kaye_beall at worlded.org with questions.
************************
 
Adult Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated Instruction
 
Course Dates: March 12?May 13, 2008; Online chats during Lessons 3, 4, and 5
 
Course Description
Research conducted by the National Center for the Study of Adult Learning and Literacy shows that instructional practices inspired by Multiple Intelligences (MI) theory resulted in high levels of authentic instruction and student engagement.
Integrate your understanding of Multiple Intelligences (MI) theory with the power of differentiated instruction in this facilitated, eight-session course. You?ll learn how to apply MI theory and differentiate instruction for all levels of adult basic education and English for speakers of other languages. The facilitator will guide you as you develop your own MI-based lessons.
 
Objectives
Upon completion of this course you will be able to:
*Apply the theory of multiple intelligences (MI) to design learning activities that match your learning objectives
*Use varying methods of differentiated instruction (DI) that address the different skills and interests of your learners
*Apply knowledge of your own MI profile to your classroom teaching
*Produce and reflect on a lesson or unit using both MI and DI
 
Required Text:
Viens, Julie and Silja Kallenbach. Multiple Intelligences and Adult Literacy: A Sourcebook for Practitioners. (New York: Teachers College Press, 2004. Copies of the required textbook can be obtained from the publisher, Teachers College Press (TCP), the publisher at http://store.tcpress.com/0807743461.shtml. The cost is $27.95 per copy.
 
Course Format and Schedule: facilitated, online
During this eight-week course, you will engage in self-paced activities and readings, as well as asynchronous discussions with the facilitators and course participants. Three synchronous chats will be scheduled during Lessons 3, 4, and 5.
 
Syllabus: See attached PDF?AMI Course Details.
 
Course Facilitator: Wendy Qui?ones
 
Estimated Completion Time: 40 hours
 
Registration: Complete and return the attached registration form-[PDF]. Payment must be received prior to enrollment. Registration is limited to 20 participants.
 
Cancellation policy: World Education reserves the right to cancel the course if the minimum number of registrants is not met by March 4, 2008.
 
Kaye Beall
Project Director
World Education
6760 West Street
Linn Grove, IN 46711
765-717-3942
kaye_beall at worlded.org
www.worlded.org
 


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Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
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From forrest at crosslink.net  Fri Feb  8 21:56:43 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 21:56:43 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1220] Re: {Dangerous Content?}
	RE:	NoQuestions	orComments?!
In-Reply-To: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870AD7F858@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
References: <004b01c86a81$9934a9f0$cb9dfdd0$@net>
	<208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870AD7F858@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
Message-ID: <000001c86ac7$6a889030$3f99b090$@net>

Jim,

 

I think you have the story right ? as I understand it. Of course colleges in
many states don?t require a high school diploma at all ? let alone a GED
score ? for entry or placement. So it?s unlikely they would start doing that
now. What some Adult Education programs have done, however, is to counsel
their college-bound students to defer taking the test until they can attain
a higher score. While this advice isn?t always heeded, they claim it has
good results. I agree that the GED is used for many purposes and we don?t
want to unfairly disadvantage people. In fact, t may be used for too many
purposes. Some people would like to establish a terminal goal of
federal/stated funded Adult Education as a certificate of ?college
readiness?  -- with the GED as just a step along the road. Thus far, USDOE
hasn?t been willing to buy into it. Makes sense to me. 

 

Forrest

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Schneider, Jim
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 3:20 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1200] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: NoQuestions
orComments?!

 

Let me clarify... I don't know if the test is too hard - I am certain that
it is significantly harder than the old Spanish GED. 

 

I do not speak Spanish, nor am I a psychometrician, however, in comparison
with the old Spanish GED that was written and normed with the Spanish
speaking population, the new form of the GED - having been translated from
the English, with the exact same content and questions as the English seems
contrived to me. And more than one native speaker of Spanish has commented
on the translations in the official practice tests. This may simply be my
bias having worked with both forms of the test. 

 

Regarding the placement of GED recipient in developmental education - I
would wager that this is as true with the new test as it was with the old.
If you read the 1956 Tyler report on the GED, they knew that the score of
225 (average of 45 per subject exam) on the GED was not really adequate for
college preparation. However, they discovered that if they raised it to 250
(average of 50 per subject exam), college success was significantly
enhanced. Nevertheless, they recommended the 225 as a passing score because
if they increased the passing score to 250, several individuals who had been
successful in college would not have had that opportunity. 

 

An earlier dissertation topic that I abandoned for lack of a theory-base was
to investigate whether a GED score of 2500 or 3000 might be a better
predictor of college success than the 2250?  Despite the benefit of better
preparation, I'd hate to see the passing score be increased and make it that
much harder for so many who need the credential to get their foot in the
door. However, if my premise holds water, why couldn't colleges use the GED
as they do an ACT and either not accept a GED student with less than a ....
(pick a score), or if students with a score under ... (pick a score) is
admitted, recognize that they would likely need significant support and/or
remediation. 

 

Jim S. 

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 12:37 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1193] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: NoQuestions
orComments?!

Jim,

 

I?m with Jodi on this. Many people would take exception  with the idea that
the Spanish GED is too hard. I think people who have studied
economic/educational benefits by and large think BOTH the English and
Spanish GED?s, as well as high school diplomas, are TOO EASY. I believe the
research shows that GED holders have a far higher rate of placement in
developmental education than do high school graduates, but that data may be
based on the OLD  GED.

 

Forrest  

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 11:49 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1185] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
orComments?!

 

Jim,

 

I think you've summarized how I feel as well.

 

We can discuss the various options with students, but in the end, if we
offer Spanish Literacy and Spanish GED, it's their choice.  Some will choose
to do everything in English and take longer to do it, but others will choose
to work in their own language.  For some students, the Spanish GED provides
short-term benefits.  But they will still need ESL for future academic or
vocational training, if they have limited English.

 

Have any programs tried to encourage students in Spanish Literacy or Spanish
GED to take ESL classes as well?

 

Jodi

 

 

 

 

On Feb 8, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Schneider, Jim wrote:

 

I feel compelled to put my two cents in on the Spanish GED. 

 

My experience is that both Andres and Ted have valid points. Here in Eastern
Iowa, there are few bilingual employers. Employers that are bilingual rarely
pay the best wages and are typically short of employees if there are any
signs of INS.  

 

On the other hand, many of the students who have completed the Spanish GED
are already employed, and have fairly decent English skills, but are short
on time. Attaining the GED provides them the opportunity for advancement at
work and/or access to postsecondary education/training. 

 

It has been excruciating watch the one or two who insist on the GED in
English get through the Literature and Writing portions of the test. 

 

And the difficulty of the new Spanish GED tests are such that it is a rare
student who can pass it. The old Spanish GED was attainable for most
learners who had a 6-8th grade education. We have found that it is virtually
impossible for anyone with less than a 10-11 grade education By simply
translating the English test into Spanish and then utilizing the standard
scores/norms of the English test, students who have passed it, have EARNED
their GED. 

 

Jim S.  

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Ted Klein
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 8:49 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1175] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
orComments?!

Andres,

 

I'm not too sure that some of your perspectives haven't been somewhat
altered by living in El Paso. I say that with total respect for El Paso and
for your answer. Let me explain. First, I've lived in Texas most of my life,
except for some time overseas. I know just about all of our border towns,
from El Paso to Brownsville. I've also lived in nine countries outside of
the United States and traveled perhaps in twenty more. AXIOM: All over the
world, border towns are different  from other towns. Persons, regardless of
ancestry,  who live in border towns anywhere tend to be bicultural and
bilingual. They also tend to identify with each other on close levels as
being a well-made "tossed salad." If most or all of your students plan to
stay in El Paso for the rest of their lives, I totally agree with what you
say. However, if they want to go to cities north of the border area; Dallas,
Ft. Worth, Austin, Houston, Waco, or out of state, then the picture changes.
I am almost as comfortable in Spanish as I am in English and have dealt with
persons from every country in Latin America comfortably and successfully, as
well as Spain. However, I do not represent anything close to a majority,
particularly when it comes to having a business. When persons go for job
interviews in non-border towns, being truly bilingual is a great asset and
can even result in higher pay and better opportunities. That is true for
Spanish speakers and English speakers. However, most of your persons who
have had to take the GED in Spanish are not truly bilingual. That's a fact
and when they go for a job interview, the human resources person doesn't
need paperwork to know that there may be communication problems with clients
and on the telephone. The fact is that life is short. However it is long
enough for persons to spend a couple of more years acquiring English if it
gives them more options in life. Again, if they plan to spend their lives in
a border town, this may not be a problem at all. 

 

Three years ago, my wife and I and one of our colleagues, took an ESL
teaching gig at a cookie factory in Austin. Quite a few of their employees
did not speak English and the company wanted to fix that situation. There
were 27 persons who had volunteered to take English classes at work, maybe
six hours a week. The first problem was how to determine divisions of 27
students among three teachers. I got out a brief "test" that I had used to
determine readiness for the ALCPT tests in the past.

 

Here is a copy:

 

ORAL INTERVIEW QUESTIONS TO DETERMINE ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE

 

                                                      Block 2
Ted Klein

 

Questions marked with an asterisk * are mandatory. Of the remaining
questions, ten should be selected at random. Speech of the interviewer will
be at normal speed and clarity, with NO exaggeration.

 

1. What is your name please?*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

2. Where are you from?* -------

 

3. What part of XXXXXXX are you from?-------

 

4. What is your native language? -------

 

5. How long have you been in America? -------

 

6. Do you read English?* -------

 

7. Did you study English in your country? -------

 

8. How long did you study English? -------

 

9. Are you enjoying the U.S.A? -------

 

10. What do you like here? -------

 

11. Is there anything that you don't like? -------

 

12. Have you studied any other languages besides English? -------

 

13. Why do you want to learn English? -------

 

14. How many years of education have you had? -------

 

15. Do you have any hobbies? What are they? -------

 

16. Do you have any American friends to practice English with? -------

 

17. Do you work?  Where? -------

 

18. What are your plans for the future? -------

 

19. Why did you come to America? -------

 

20. Do you have any questions for me? -------

 

 

Mark responses: 0 no answer.   0+ telegraphic/very simple response. 

1 simple, but complete response.  1+ functional and clear response.

2   somewhat elaborate, fairly clear and mostly grammatical response.

 

Interviewees with ten or more answers in the 1+ to 2 range should be ready
to take a written

proficiency test of listening and reading skills. Non-readers are excluded.
(ref: Ques. 6)

 

The three of us interviewed the 27 candidates together. 19 out of the 27
were not able to answer the second question: e.g. (Teacher) Where are you
from?

(Candidate) ?Mande?  (Teacher) Where are you from? ?Como?  (Teacher) Are you
from Mexico? (Candidate) M?xico, "jes." One answered, "M?xico, no, Peru s?."

 

The 8 students who were able to answer that question and maybe four or five
more questions were assigned to an "advanced class." The others were split
into two groups. What happened here? Many of these persons had lived in
Austin for some time. Some for up to ten years. Most had families. The
families naturally used Spanish at home, even their children who spoke
English at school. They had Spanish-speaking supervisors. They watched
television in Spanish. They ate at Mexican restaurants. They went to
Spanish-speaking doctors. 95% of their friends were Hispanic. In plain
language, if they wanted to stay at the cookie factory, making cookies, they
didn't need English, although the company preferred that they know English
for upward mobility. This program went on for three or four months.The
company merged and our program ended. We did not use Spanish in class. In
early training I use materials that I developed based on some of the old
"direct methods;" picture flashcards, Cuisenaire rods, etc. and we also
concentrated strongly on English sounds, particularly listening and
identification. The program went surprisingly well and many of the students
were very disappointed when it ended. They had already found some new places
to go and some were acquiring English-speaking friends.

 

So what is the good news? Several of our former students have entered the
Austin Community College AE program and are doing well. One of them is in my
class now. She has a child and often works at night at the cookie factory.
Sometimes she comes in looking very tired, but she's surviving. She wants to
be a Certified Nursing Assistant. She'll make it! She plans to take the GED
in English next year and enter the Nursing Program at ACC. Most of her
future patients will not be bilingual and she will be ready for them. 

 

That's about it.

 

Ted  

www.tedklein-ESL.com

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: andresmuro at aol.com 

To: assessment at nifl.gov 

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 12:02 PM

Subject: [Assessment 1153] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

 

Ted:

How would the employer know the language that Julian took the GED in?
In most states the certificate does not tell you the Language. Texas is one
of the few states that tells you the language. However, it is so hard to
find that most people wouldn't even know. I have a hard time finding the
language reference even though I have seen millions of certificates. Fact is
most employers don't even know that people can take the GED in anything
other than English, don't ask and do not scrutinize certificates to figure
out scores, language, etc. A few might, but the majority don't. For low
literacy Spanish speakers it may take them a couple of years to be ready to
take the GED in Spanish. It make take them 2 more years to be ready for the
English GED. Would you rather hold them two more years. They can take the
GED in Spanish and continue to study English. Once they have sufficient
English, they can decide if they want to take it in English or to move on to
other things.

Andres

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Klein <taklein at austin.rr.com>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 6:58 am
Subject: [Assessment 1150] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

Jodi and Andres,

 

There is one very real problem with taking the GED in Spanish that I'm aware
of. If you have two immigrants, Roberto and Ju?n, and they both apply for
the same job and if Ju?n took the GED in Spanish and Roberto took it in
English, guess who gets the job?

Yes, life isn't fair, but most U.S. businesses prefer persons who have gone
"all the way" with English. My students and I have discussed this and they
have seen or know of this situation with their friends and family members.
That is why many AE students remain longer in our ESL classes. Of course in
many border towns, this may not be as important since many of the employers
are Hispanic or are native speakers of English who are functional in
Spanish. However, many customers of the businesses will need to use English.


 

In my current class in Austin, Texas with eleven students, five different
languages are spoken. Should we offer the GED in Arabic, Chinese, Korean,
and Juba as well as Spanish?

 

 

Ted

www.tedklein-ESL.com 

 

 

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: andresmuro at aol.com 

To: crandall at umbc.edu ; assessment at nifl.gov 

Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 5:21 PM

Subject: [Assessment 1146] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

 

Jodi:

The credit ESL program in the college is very academic. However it provides
students with financial aid and other goodies. We feel that the students
will not do well in a credit academic ESL program until they have a level
comparable to GED in their native language. Also, a GED certificate is a way
to demonstrate ability to benefit to qualify for financial aid. Those
students who get into the credit ESL program without native language
literacy don't do well. 

Students can attend other ESL classes in the community while they are
attending our classes. We stopped providing ESL because of limited funding
to provide what we would consider meaningful ESL. Also, our Spanish GED
program is fairly intensive and our students would not have enough time to
attend an additional program. We have a few students who may be attending
our classes and an ESL class concurrently. Those are a minority

The truth is that we started as an ESL literacy program many years ago.
There was virtually no funding for  literacy ESL unless it  had all kind of
testing requirements. Also, it is very hard to train teachers to be really
good at ESL. The system that encourages large number of untrained part
timers prevents this from happening. 

I know that a lot of people in these listservs claim exemplary service and
illustrate  with examples of what they have done. I don't doubt that  their
claims are 100% true. However,  we are in the minority. If I could get you
and Heide and Elsa and Andy Nash and Leonore and Deborah Schwartz, and Anson
Green and Federico and others to be my ESL teachers, I would have the best
program in the world. However, the fact is that in addition to the barriers
that ESL students face in their daily lives, plus the bureaucratic and
assessment barriers that the system creates for teachers and students, plus
the difficulty hiring and retaining highly qualified ESL staff makes it very
difficult to have a successful ESL program. 

I feel that until we get rid of WIA/NRS it will be tough to create good
stuff in a systematic way. 

Andres

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 1:27 pm
Subject: [Assessment 1141] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

Andres,













 














 














 














 
It is great that you provide Spanish language literacy and GED classes for













 














 
your students.  There's no question that native language literacy













 














 
contributes not just to the development of the first language, but also to













 














 
English language development when students take oral ESL classes.  There













 














 
is some research in this area by Michele Burtoff with Haitians in the U.S.













 














 
and there is a lot of research (see especially research by David Ramirez













 














 
which compares children who had 6, 3 or no years of bilingual education)













 














 
that shows that providing bilingual education not only has all the













 














 
benefits that would be expected, but students also achieve in English as













 














 
well or better than those who only had instruction in English.













 














 














 














 
We also found that Spanish GED classes had large numbers of students at













 














 
the colleges, since students who take the GED in Spanish are able to













 














 
bypass the need for extensive ESL just to get this credential.  They might













 














 
want to take ESL as well, but the desire for the GED is often for













 














 
work-related reasons.  I'm not clear on why you ask students to wait until













 














 
after they have passed the GED to take ESL classes.  Can you tell us a













 














 
little more about that?













 














 














 














 
Of course not all students who enroll in adult ESL are Spanish speakers













 














 
and there may not be enough who speak any language to provide literacy













 














 
classes for them in their own language, but programs might try to partner













 














 
with immigrant or refugee-related community-based organizations which













 














 
could reach more students and also identify someone to provide the













 














 
instruction.  Still, there will  be students who will not be able to take













 














 
literacy classes in their own languages and for them, a separate ESL













 














 
literacy class seems to be the best option.













 














 














 














 
It would be great to hear from others about their experiences both with













 














 
first language (Spanish and other languages) literacy classes, Spanish GED













 














 
classes, and literacy ESL classes.













 














 














 














 
How do you place students in your literacy classes?  Do you use a













 














 
standardized test or do you have informal ways of determining if someone













 














 
would be better served in a literacy ESL class?













 














 














 














 














 














 
Jodi













 














 














 














 
>













 














 
>  Problem is that in many ESL people are placed in ESL classes based on an













 














 
> English placement multiple choice test. A student with advanced education













 














 
> in L1 and one with little education in L1 may know very little English













 














 
> and they may both be placed in the same level. The student with advance













 














 
> education will progress much faster than the one with little education.













 














 
> The advanced L1 student will understand concepts like sentence,













 














 
> paragraph, verb, subject, direct object, adjective, composition and essay













 














 
> readily. The one with with little education will need to understand these













 














 
> concepts. It takes a while for people to master these concepts. A highly













 














 
> educated L2? learner will likely progress faster academically in a second













 














 
> language than a fluent native speaker of that? language with limited













 














 
> academic education, for the same reason. This is observed regularly in













 














 
> universities all over the US. highly educated foreign students who













 














 
> acquired English as L2 recently will do better than their Eng













 














 
>  lish speaking counterparts in academic tasks in English. Jim Cummins has













 














 
> articulated this clearly with his BICS and CALPS.













 














 
>













 














 
> In our program at El Paso Community College we have found evidence of













 














 
> this. We stopped doing literacy ESL a while back for this reason. The













 














 
> college has an academic ESL program. Instead of doing ESL literacy we













 














 
> started offering Spanish Literacy and GED many years ago since the vast













 














 
> majority of our students are Spanish speakers. Once our students acquire













 














 
> their Spanish GED they transition into the ESL program and do better than













 














 
> those students who don't have L1 academic skills. Even if takes them a













 














 
> while to acquire the L1 literacy, they will do better. Those with no L1













 














 
> literacy often stay in ESL forever and they drop out, start again in













 














 
> another program, drop out and continue the same pattern. I think that this













 














 
> happens because of the mixture of academically ready students and those













 














 
> that are not ready, since most ESL programs focus on traditional













 














 
> academics. For L1 low literacy students to be able to progress in L2 there













 














 
> has to be a program specifically designed for them that teache













 














 
>  s skills in L2 in new and innovative ways without interference from













 














 
> academically skilled L1 students. Right now we don't have a system that













 














 
> systematically does this, and the WIA/NRS system prevents this form













 














 
> happening.













 














 
>













 














 
> Hope that this makes sense,













 














 
>













 














 
> Andres













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> -----Original Message-----













 














 
> From: Jackie Coelho <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>













 














 
> To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>













 














 
> Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 5:01 am













 














 
> Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or













 














 
> Comments?!













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> Forrest,













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> ?? I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy













 














 
> background and those without. These two groups have such different needs.













 














 
> Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs













 














 
> of either group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate













 














 
> the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor













 














 
> does not keep up with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they













 














 
> often become frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the













 














 
> instructor keeps up with those students, the others are unable to keep up













 














 
> and they get frustrated.













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> ? I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of













 














 
> how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> Jackie













 














 
>













 














 
> ?













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in













 














 
> student performance:













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> ?













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly













 














 
> educated students do better in terms of ?persistence, learning gains, and













 














 
> transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably













 














 
> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education













 














 
> makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of













 














 
> their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That













 














 
> is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education













 














 
> makes? Or any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior













 














 
> education that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are













 














 
> completely illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high













 














 
> school graduates, college graduates, etc. -- ?or is level of prior













 














 
> education pretty much of a continuum?













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> ?













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly













 














 
> educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably students













 














 
> with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower













 














 
> level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by













 














 
> definition) ?in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes













 














 
> math. Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at













 














 
> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be













 














 
> desirable to place less highly educated students in separate classes from













 














 
> those with more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for













 














 
> them accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or













 














 
> the Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these













 














 
> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of













 














 
> "bi-lingual education" that should be tried?













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> ?













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the













 














 
> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of













 














 
> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large













 














 
> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means),













 














 
> ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very little education













 














 
> in their native countries and too little money to serve them. ?So anyone













 














 
> who has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a













 














 
> lot by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> ?













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> Forrest Chisman













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> Vice President













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> CAAL













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> ?













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> ??













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> ?













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
<mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov?> ] On













 














 
> Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu













 














 
>













 














 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM













 














 
> To: The Assessment Discussion List













 














 
> Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or













 














 
> Comments?!













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> ?













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> Hi Jackie,













 














 
>













 














 
> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my













 














 
> former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual education













 














 
> in the K-12 school system.













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> Tina













 














 
>













 














 
> Tina Luffman













 














 
> Coordinator, Developmental Education













 














 
> Verde Valley Campus













 














 
> 928-634-6544













 














 
> tina_luffman at yc.edu













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> "Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>













 














 
>













 














 
> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> Please respond to













 














 
> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> To













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> cc













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> Subject













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or ? ? ?













 














 
> ?Comments?!













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> ?













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> Hi Tina,













 














 
>













 














 
> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in













 














 
> favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in













 














 
>













 














 
> the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation













 














 
> in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second













 














 
> or third language.













 














 
>













 














 
> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not













 














 
> written.













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> Jackie













 














 
>













 














 
>













 














 
> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:













 














 
>













 














 
>> Hi list members,













 














 
>>













 














 
>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to that













 














 
>> of













 














 
>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country













 














 
>> they













 














 
>













 














 
>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather quickly













 














 
>> and













 














 
>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their country













 














 
>> or













 














 
>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much













 














 
>













 














 
>> advancement.













 














 
>>













 














 
>> This experience relates well to research done among Native American













 














 
>> tribes













 














 
>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught













 














 
>> literacy













 














 
>













 














 
>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who













 














 
>> tried













 














 
>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their own













 














 
>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The













 














 
>













 














 
>> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much













 














 
>> easier













 














 
>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this is













 














 
>> something deserving more research.













 














 
>













 














 
>>













 














 
>> Tina













 














 
>> Tina Luffman













 














 
>> Coordinator, Developmental Education













 














 
>> Verde Valley Campus













 














 
>> 928-634-6544













 














 
>> tina_luffman at yc.edu













 














 
>













 














 
>>













 














 
>> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----













 














 
>>













 














 
>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>













 














 
>













 














 
>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>













 














 
>> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov













 














 
>













 














 
>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM













 














 
>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or













 














 
>> Comments?!













 














 
>>













 














 
>>













 














 
>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed













 














 
>













 














 
>> Warning: (not named).













 














 
>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more













 














 
>> information.













 














 
>>













 














 
>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three













 














 
>> years)













 














 
>













 














 
>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,













 














 
>> particularly if













 














 
>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at













 














 
>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I













 














 
>> would













 














 
>













 














 
>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a













 














 
>> student













 














 
>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because













 














 
>> he/she













 














 
>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try













 














 
>> to













 














 
>













 














 
>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard













 














 
>> concept













 














 
>> in a second language.













 














 
>>













 














 
>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play













 














 
>> a













 














 
>













 














 
>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned













 














 
>> from













 














 
>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than













 














 
>> classes).













 














 
>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.













 














 
>> It's













 














 
>













 














 
>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL













 














 
>> teachers.













 














 
>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging













 














 
>> me













 














 
>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're













 














 
>













 














 
>> making some progress.













 














 
>>













 














 
>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?













 














 
>>













 














 
>> ________________________________













 














 
>>













 














 
>













 














 
>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora













 














 
>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM













 














 
>













 














 
>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov













 














 
>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!













 














 
>













 














 
>>













 














 
>>













 














 
>> Hello everyone,













 














 
>>













 














 
>> I'm so surprised! ?No one has anything to comment on regarding your













 














 
>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? ?I was very













 














 
>













 














 
>> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that













 














 
>> Dr.













 














 
>> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research: ?a lack of intensity













 














 
>> of













 














 
>> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities













 














 
>> for













 














 
>













 














 
>> professional development.













 














 
>>













 














 
>> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL













 














 
>> student













 














 
>> from advancing? ?What do you try to do about that?













 














 
>>













 














 
>













 














 
>> Please post your questions and comments now.













 














 
>>













 














 
>> Thanks!













 














 
>>













 














 
>> Marie Cora













 














 
>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator













 














 
>>













 














 
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From macsimoin at hotmail.com  Fri Feb  8 21:23:02 2008
From: macsimoin at hotmail.com (Mary Lynn Simons)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 02:23:02 +0000
Subject: [Assessment 1221] Re: {Dangerous Content?}
	RE:	NoQuestions	orComments?!
In-Reply-To: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870AD7F858@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
References: <004b01c86a81$9934a9f0$cb9dfdd0$@net>
	<208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870AD7F858@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
Message-ID: <BAY115-W3368A5B128BF63E2A8760EBF280@phx.gbl>


I agree the passing score should not be increased. The GED is not only for college; however, colleges and employers should become more familiar with GED scores.  A score of 2500 is a much better predictor of positive college success than a score of 2250. I have taught the GED for many years and anyone with a 2500 score, I consider to be sharp. As for the Spanish GED test takers, many any are not familiar with the USA and may be puzzled by the test. They need to go to a Spanish GED class. The Spanish GED is about the US and most students have a lot to learn about American history, government, and literature.

Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 14:20:25 -0600
From: jschneider at eicc.edu
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1200] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE:	NoQuestions	orComments?!












Let me clarify... I don't know if the test is too hard - I 
am certain that it is significantly harder than the old Spanish GED. 

 
I do not speak Spanish, nor am I a psychometrician, 
however, in comparison with the old Spanish GED that was written and normed with 
the Spanish speaking population, the new form of the GED - having been 
translated from the English, with the exact same content and questions as the 
English seems contrived to me. And more than one native speaker of Spanish has 
commented on the translations in the official practice tests. This may simply be 
my bias having worked with both forms of the test. 
 
Regarding the placement of GED recipient in developmental 
education - I would wager that this is as true with the new test as it was with 
the old. If you read the 1956 Tyler report on the GED, they knew that the score 
of 225 (average of 45 per subject exam) on the GED was not really adequate 
for college preparation. However, they discovered that if they raised it to 
250 (average of 50 per subject exam), college success was 
significantly enhanced. Nevertheless, they recommended the 225 as a passing 
score because if they increased the passing score to 250, several individuals 
who had been successful in college would not have had that opportunity. 

 
An earlier dissertation topic that I abandoned for lack of 
a theory-base was to investigate whether a GED score of 2500 or 3000 might be a 
better predictor of college success than the 2250?  Despite the benefit of 
better preparation, I'd hate to see the passing score be increased and make it 
that much harder for so many who need the credential to get their foot in the 
door. However, if my premise holds water, why couldn't colleges use the GED as 
they do an ACT and either not accept a GED student with less than a .... (pick a 
score), or if students with a score under ... (pick a score) is admitted, 
recognize that they would likely need significant support and/or remediation. 

 
Jim S. 



From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Forrest 
Chisman
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 12:37 PM
To: 'The 
Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1193] Re: {Dangerous 
Content?} RE: NoQuestions orComments?!




Jim,
 
I?m 
with Jodi on this. Many people would take exception  with the idea that the 
Spanish GED is too hard. I think people who have studied economic/educational 
benefits by and large think BOTH the English and Spanish GED?s, as well as high 
school diplomas, are TOO EASY. I believe the research shows that GED holders 
have a far higher rate of placement in developmental education than do high 
school graduates, but that data may be based on the OLD 
 GED.
 
Forrest 
 
 


From: 
assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of 
Jodi Crandall
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 11:49 
AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 
1185] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions 
orComments?!
 
Jim,

 

I think you've summarized how I feel as 
well.

 

We can discuss the various options with students, but in the 
end, if we offer Spanish Literacy and Spanish GED, it's their choice.  Some 
will choose to do everything in English and take longer to do it, but others 
will choose to work in their own language.  For some students, the 
Spanish GED provides short-term benefits.  But they will still need ESL for 
future academic or vocational training, if they have limited 
English.

 

Have any programs tried to encourage students in Spanish 
Literacy or Spanish GED to take ESL classes as well?

 

Jodi

 

 

 

 


On Feb 8, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Schneider, Jim 
wrote:



I feel 
compelled to put my two cents in on the Spanish GED. 
 
My 
experience is that both Andres and Ted have valid points. Here in Eastern Iowa, 
there are few bilingual employers. Employers that are bilingual rarely pay 
the best wages and are typically short of employees if there are any signs of 
INS.  
 
On the 
other hand, many of the students who have completed the Spanish GED are already 
employed, and have fairly decent English skills, but are short on time. 
Attaining the GED provides them the opportunity for advancement at work and/or 
access to postsecondary education/training. 
 
It has 
been excruciating watch the one or two who insist on the GED in English get 
through the Literature and Writing portions of the test. 
 
And the 
difficulty of the new Spanish GED tests are such that it is a rare student who 
can pass it. The old Spanish GED was attainable for most learners who had a 
6-8th grade education. We have found that it is virtually impossible for anyone 
with less than a 10-11 grade education By simply translating the English test 
into Spanish and then utilizing the standard scores/norms of the English 
test, students who have passed it, have EARNED their 
GED. 
 
Jim S. 
 
 



From: 
assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] 
On Behalf Of Ted Klein
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 8:49 
AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 
1175] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions 
orComments?!

Andres,

 

I'm not too sure that some of your perspectives haven't been 
somewhat altered by living in El Paso. I say that with total respect for El Paso 
and for your answer. Let me explain. First, I've lived in Texas most of my life, 
except for some time overseas. I know just about all of our border towns, from 
El Paso to Brownsville. I've also lived in nine countries outside of the United 
States and traveled perhaps in twenty more. AXIOM: All over the 
world, border towns are different  from other towns. 
Persons, regardless of ancestry,  who live in border towns anywhere 
tend to be bicultural and bilingual. They also tend to identify with each other 
on close levels as being a well-made "tossed salad." If most or 
all of your students plan to stay in El Paso for the rest of their lives, I 
totally agree with what you say. However, if they want to go to cities north of 
the border area; Dallas, Ft. Worth, Austin, Houston, Waco, or out of state, then 
the picture changes. I am almost as comfortable in Spanish as I am in English 
and have dealt with persons from every country in Latin America comfortably and 
successfully, as well as Spain. However, I do not represent anything close to a 
majority, particularly when it comes to having a business. When persons go for 
job interviews in non-border towns, being truly bilingual is a great 
asset and can even result in higher pay and better opportunities. That is true 
for Spanish speakers and English speakers. However, most of 
your persons who have had to take the GED in Spanish are not truly bilingual. 
That's a fact and when they go for a job interview, the human resources person 
doesn't need paperwork to know that there may be communication problems with 
clients and on the telephone. The fact is that life is short. However it is long 
enough for persons to spend a couple of more years acquiring English if it gives 
them more options in life. Again, if they plan to spend their lives in a border 
town, this may not be a problem at all. 

 

Three years ago, my wife and I and one of our colleagues, 
took an ESL teaching gig at a cookie factory in Austin. Quite a few of 
their employees did not speak English and the company wanted to fix that 
situation. There were 27 persons who had volunteered to take English classes at 
work, maybe six hours a week. The first problem was how to determine 
divisions of 27 students among three teachers. I got out a brief "test" that I 
had used to determine readiness for the ALCPT tests in the 
past.

 

Here is a copy:

 


ORAL INTERVIEW 
QUESTIONS TO DETERMINE ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE

 

                                                
      Block 
2                 
Ted Klein

 

Questions marked with an 
asterisk * are mandatory. Of the remaining questions, ten should be selected at 
random. Speech of the interviewer will be at normal speed and clarity, with NO 
exaggeration.

 

1. What is your name please?* 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

2. Where are you from?* 
-------

 

3. What part of XXXXXXX are you 
from?-------

 

4. What is your native 
language? -------

 

5. How long have you been in 
America? -------

 

6. Do you read English?* 
-------

 

7. Did you study English in 
your country? -------

 

8. How long did you study 
English? -------

 

9. Are you enjoying the U.S.A? 
-------

 

10. What do you like here? 
-------

 

11. Is there anything that you 
don't like? -------

 

12. Have you studied any other 
languages besides English? -------

 

13. Why do you want to learn 
English? -------

 

14. How many years of education 
have you had? -------

 

15. Do you have any hobbies? 
What are they? -------

 

16. Do you have any American 
friends to practice English with? -------

 

17. Do you work?  Where? 
-------

 

18. What are your plans for the 
future? -------

 

19. Why did you come to 
America? -------

 

20. Do you have any questions 
for me? -------

 

 

Mark responses: 0 no 
answer.   0+ telegraphic/very simple response. 


1 simple, but complete 
response.  1+ functional and clear response.

2   somewhat 
elaborate, fairly clear and mostly grammatical 
response.

 

Interviewees with ten or more 
answers in the 1+ to 2 range should be ready to take a 
written

proficiency test of listening 
and reading skills. Non-readers are excluded. (ref: Ques. 
6)

 

The three of us interviewed the 27 candidates together. 
19 out of the 27 were not able to answer the second question: 
e.g. (Teacher) Where are you from?

(Candidate) ?Mande?  (Teacher) Where are you from? 
?Como?  (Teacher) Are you from Mexico? (Candidate) M?xico, "jes." One 
answered, "M?xico, no, Peru s?."

 

The 8 students who were able to answer that question and 
maybe four or five more questions were assigned to an "advanced class." The 
others were split into two groups. What happened here? Many of these persons had 
lived in Austin for some time. Some for up to ten years. Most had families. The 
families naturally used Spanish at home, even their children who spoke English 
at school. They had Spanish-speaking supervisors. They watched television in 
Spanish. They ate at Mexican restaurants. They went to Spanish-speaking doctors. 
95% of their friends were Hispanic. In plain language, if they wanted to stay at 
the cookie factory, making cookies, they didn't need English, 
although the company preferred that they know English for upward mobility. This 
program went on for three or four months.The company merged and our program 
ended. We did not use Spanish in class. In early training I use materials that I 
developed based on some of the old "direct methods;" picture flashcards, 
Cuisenaire rods, etc. and we also concentrated strongly on English sounds, 
particularly listening and identification. The program went surprisingly well 
and many of the students were very disappointed when it ended. They had already 
found some new places to go and some were acquiring English-speaking 
friends.

 

So what is the good news? Several of our former students have 
entered the Austin Community College AE program and are doing well. One of them 
is in my class now. She has a child and often works at night at the cookie 
factory. Sometimes she comes in looking very tired, but she's surviving. 
She wants to be a Certified Nursing Assistant. She'll make it! She plans to take 
the GED in English next year and enter the Nursing Program at ACC. Most of her 
future patients will not be bilingual and she will be ready for them. 


 

That's about it.

 

Ted  


www.tedklein-ESL.com

 

----- Original Message ----- 

  
  From: andresmuro at aol.com 
  
  
  To: assessment at nifl.gov 
  
  
  Sent: Thursday, February 
  07, 2008 12:02 PM
  
  Subject: [Assessment 1153] 
  Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or 
  Comments?!
  
   
  
  Ted:

How would the employer 
  know the language that Julian took the GED in?
In most states the 
  certificate does not tell you the Language. Texas is one of the few states 
  that tells you the language. However, it is so hard to find that most people 
  wouldn't even know. I have a hard time finding the language reference even 
  though I have seen millions of certificates. Fact is most employers don't even 
  know that people can take the GED in anything other than English, don't ask 
  and do not scrutinize certificates to figure out scores, language, etc. A few 
  might, but the majority don't. For low literacy Spanish speakers it may take 
  them a couple of years to be ready to take the GED in Spanish. It make take 
  them 2 more years to be ready for the English GED. Would you rather hold them 
  two more years. They can take the GED in Spanish and continue to study 
  English. Once they have sufficient English, they can decide if they want to 
  take it in English or to move on to other 
  things.

Andres
  
   
  
   
  -----Original 
  Message-----
From: Ted Klein <taklein at austin.rr.com>
To: The 
  Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Thu, 7 
  Feb 2008 6:58 am
Subject: [Assessment 1150] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No 
  Questions or Comments?!
  
  
  Jodi and Andres,
  
   
  
  There is one very real problem with taking the GED in 
  Spanish that I'm aware of. If you have two immigrants, Roberto and Ju?n, and 
  they both apply for the same job and if Ju?n took the GED in Spanish and 
  Roberto took it in English, guess who gets the job?
  
  Yes, life isn't fair, but most U.S. businesses prefer 
  persons who have gone "all the way" with English. My students and I have 
  discussed this and they have seen or know of this situation with their friends 
  and family members. That is why many AE students remain longer in our ESL 
  classes. Of course in many border towns, this may not be as important since 
  many of the employers are Hispanic or are native speakers of English who are 
  functional in Spanish. However, many customers of the businesses will need to 
  use English. 
  
   
  
  In my current class in Austin, Texas with eleven 
  students, five different languages are spoken. Should we offer the GED in 
  Arabic, Chinese, Korean, and Juba as well as Spanish?
  
   
  
   
  
  Ted
  
  www.tedklein-ESL.com 
  
   
  
   
  
   
  
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  
    
    From: andresmuro at aol.com 
    
    
    To: crandall at umbc.edu ; assessment at nifl.gov 
    
    
    Sent: Wednesday, 
    February 06, 2008 5:21 PM
    
    Subject: [Assessment 
    1146] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or 
    Comments?!
    
     
    
    Jodi:

The credit ESL 
    program in the college is very academic. However it provides students with 
    financial aid and other goodies. We feel that the students will not do well 
    in a credit academic ESL program until they have a level comparable to GED 
    in their native language. Also, a GED certificate is a way to demonstrate 
    ability to benefit to qualify for financial aid. Those students who get into 
    the credit ESL program without native language literacy don't do well. 
    

Students can attend other ESL classes in the community while they 
    are attending our classes. We stopped providing ESL because of limited 
    funding to provide what we would consider meaningful ESL. Also, our Spanish 
    GED program is fairly intensive and our students would not have enough time 
    to attend an additional program. We have a few students who may be attending 
    our classes and an ESL class concurrently. Those are a 
    minority

The 
    truth is that we started as an ESL literacy program many years ago. There 
    was virtually no funding for  literacy ESL unless it  had all kind 
    of testing requirements. Also, it is very hard to train teachers to be 
    really good at ESL. The system that encourages large number of untrained 
    part timers prevents this from happening. 

I know that a lot of 
    people in these listservs claim exemplary service and illustrate  with 
    examples of what they have done. I don't doubt that  their claims are 
    100% true. However,  we are in the minority. If I could get you and 
    Heide and Elsa and Andy Nash and Leonore and Deborah Schwartz, and Anson 
    Green and Federico and others to be my ESL teachers, I would have the best 
    program in the world. However, the fact is that in addition to the barriers 
    that ESL students face in their daily lives, plus the bureaucratic and 
    assessment barriers that the system creates for teachers and students, plus 
    the difficulty hiring and retaining highly qualified ESL staff makes it very 
    difficult to have a successful ESL program. 

I feel that until we get 
    rid of WIA/NRS it will be tough to create good stuff in a systematic way. 
    

Andres


    
     
    
     
    -----Original 
    Message-----
From: JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu>
To: The 
    Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wed, 
    6 Feb 2008 1:27 pm
Subject: [Assessment 1141] Re: {Dangerous Content?} 
    RE: No Questions or Comments?!
    Andres,















It is great that you provide Spanish language literacy and GED classes for







your students.  There's no question that native language literacy







contributes not just to the development of the first language, but also to







English language development when students take oral ESL classes.  There







is some research in this area by Michele Burtoff with Haitians in the U.S.







and there is a lot of research (see especially research by David Ramirez







which compares children who had 6, 3 or no years of bilingual education)







that shows that providing bilingual education not only has all the







benefits that would be expected, but students also achieve in English as







well or better than those who only had instruction in English.















We also found that Spanish GED classes had large numbers of students at







the colleges, since students who take the GED in Spanish are able to







bypass the need for extensive ESL just to get this credential.  They might







want to take ESL as well, but the desire for the GED is often for







work-related reasons.  I'm not clear on why you ask students to wait until







after they have passed the GED to take ESL classes.  Can you tell us a







little more about that?















Of course not all students who enroll in adult ESL are Spanish speakers







and there may not be enough who speak any language to provide literacy







classes for them in their own language, but programs might try to partner







with immigrant or refugee-related community-based organizations which







could reach more students and also identify someone to provide the







instruction.  Still, there will  be students who will not be able to take







literacy classes in their own languages and for them, a separate ESL







literacy class seems to be the best option.















It would be great to hear from others about their experiences both with







first language (Spanish and other languages) literacy classes, Spanish GED







classes, and literacy ESL classes.















How do you place students in your literacy classes?  Do you use a







standardized test or do you have informal ways of determining if someone







would be better served in a literacy ESL class?























Jodi















>







>  Problem is that in many ESL people are placed in ESL classes based on an







> English placement multiple choice test. A student with advanced education







> in L1 and one with little education in L1 may know very little English







> and they may both be placed in the same level. The student with advance







> education will progress much faster than the one with little education.







> The advanced L1 student will understand concepts like sentence,







> paragraph, verb, subject, direct object, adjective, composition and essay







> readily. The one with with little education will need to understand these







> concepts. It takes a while for people to master these concepts. A highly







> educated L2? learner will likely progress faster academically in a second







> language than a fluent native speaker of that? language with limited







> academic education, for the same reason. This is observed regularly in







> universities all over the US. highly educated foreign students who







> acquired English as L2 recently will do better than their Eng







>  lish speaking counterparts in academic tasks in English. Jim Cummins has







> articulated this clearly with his BICS and CALPS.







>







> In our program at El Paso Community College we have found evidence of







> this. We stopped doing literacy ESL a while back for this reason. The







> college has an academic ESL program. Instead of doing ESL literacy we







> started offering Spanish Literacy and GED many years ago since the vast







> majority of our students are Spanish speakers. Once our students acquire







> their Spanish GED they transition into the ESL program and do better than







> those students who don't have L1 academic skills. Even if takes them a







> while to acquire the L1 literacy, they will do better. Those with no L1







> literacy often stay in ESL forever and they drop out, start again in







> another program, drop out and continue the same pattern. I think that this







> happens because of the mixture of academically ready students and those







> that are not ready, since most ESL programs focus on traditional







> academics. For L1 low literacy students to be able to progress in L2 there







> has to be a program specifically designed for them that teache







>  s skills in L2 in new and innovative ways without interference from







> academically skilled L1 students. Right now we don't have a system that







> systematically does this, and the WIA/NRS system prevents this form







> happening.







>







> Hope that this makes sense,







>







> Andres







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







> -----Original Message-----







> From: Jackie Coelho <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>







> To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>







> Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 5:01 am







> Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or







> Comments?!







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







> Forrest,







>







>







> ?? I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy







> background and those without. These two groups have such different needs.







> Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs







> of either group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate







> the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor







> does not keep up with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they







> often become frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the







> instructor keeps up with those students, the others are unable to keep up







> and they get frustrated.







>







>







>







> ? I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of







> how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.







>







>







> Jackie







>







> ?







>







>







> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







> To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in







> student performance:







>







>







> ?







>







>







> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly







> educated students do better in terms of ?persistence, learning gains, and







> transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably







> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education







> makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of







> their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That







> is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education







> makes? Or any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior







> education that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are







> completely illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high







> school graduates, college graduates, etc. -- ?or is level of prior







> education pretty much of a continuum?







>







>







>







> ?







>







>







> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly







> educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably students







> with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower







> level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by







> definition) ?in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes







> math. Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at







> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be







> desirable to place less highly educated students in separate classes from







> those with more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for







> them accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or







> the Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these







> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of







> "bi-lingual education" that should be tried?







>







>







>







> ?







>







>







> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the







> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of







> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large







> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means),







> ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very little education







> in their native countries and too little money to serve them. ?So anyone







> who has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a







> lot by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.







>







>







>







> ?







>







>







> Forrest Chisman







>







>







> Vice President







>







>







> CAAL







>







>







> ?







>







>







> ??







>







>







> ?







>







>







>







>







> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On







> Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu







>







> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM







> To: The Assessment Discussion List







> Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or







> Comments?!







>







>







>







>







>







>







> ?







>







>







>







> Hi Jackie,







>







> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my







> former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual education







> in the K-12 school system.







>







>







> Tina







>







> Tina Luffman







> Coordinator, Developmental Education







> Verde Valley Campus







> 928-634-6544







> tina_luffman at yc.edu







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







> "Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>







>







> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov







>







>







> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







> Please respond to







> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







> To







>







>







>







>







>







> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







> cc







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







> Subject







>







>







>







>







>







> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or ? ? ?







> ?Comments?!







>







>







>







>







>







>







> ?







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







>







> Hi Tina,







>







> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in







> favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in







>







> the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation







> in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second







> or third language.







>







> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not







> written.







>







>







> Jackie







>







>







> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:







>







>> Hi list members,







>>







>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to that







>> of







>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country







>> they







>







>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather quickly







>> and







>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their country







>> or







>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much







>







>> advancement.







>>







>> This experience relates well to research done among Native American







>> tribes







>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught







>> literacy







>







>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who







>> tried







>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their own







>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The







>







>> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much







>> easier







>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this is







>> something deserving more research.







>







>>







>> Tina







>> Tina Luffman







>> Coordinator, Developmental Education







>> Verde Valley Campus







>> 928-634-6544







>> tina_luffman at yc.edu







>







>>







>> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----







>>







>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>







>







>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>







>> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov







>







>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM







>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or







>> Comments?!







>>







>>







>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed







>







>> Warning: (not named).







>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more







>> information.







>>







>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three







>> years)







>







>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,







>> particularly if







>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at







>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I







>> would







>







>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a







>> student







>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because







>> he/she







>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try







>> to







>







>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard







>> concept







>> in a second language.







>>







>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play







>> a







>







>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned







>> from







>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than







>> classes).







>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.







>> It's







>







>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL







>> teachers.







>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging







>> me







>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're







>







>> making some progress.







>>







>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?







>>







>> ________________________________







>>







>







>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora







>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM







>







>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov







>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!







>







>>







>>







>> Hello everyone,







>>







>> I'm so surprised! ?No one has anything to comment on regarding your







>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? ?I was very







>







>> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that







>> Dr.







>> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research: ?a lack of intensity







>> of







>> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities







>> for







>







>> professional development.







>>







>> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL







>> student







>> from advancing? ?What do you try to do about that?







>>







>







>> Please post your questions and comments now.







>>







>> Thanks!







>>







>> Marie Cora







>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator







>>







>>







>







>> Marie Cora







>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com







>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>







>







>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator







>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment







>







>>







>>







>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and







>> intended







>> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are







>> addressed.







>> If you have received this email in error please notify the system







>> manager.







>







>> This message contains confidential information and is intended only for







>> the







>> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not







>> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.







>







>> -------------------------------







>> National Institute for Literacy







>> Assessment mailing list







>> Assessment at nifl.gov







>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to







>







>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment







>







>> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu







>>







>>







>> -------------------------------







>> National Institute for Literacy







>> Assessment mailing list







>







>> Assessment at nifl.gov







>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to







>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment







>







>> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com







>>







>>







>>







> -------------------------------







> National Institute for Literacy







> Assessment mailing list







>







> Assessment at nifl.gov







> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to







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>







>







>







>







>







> -------------------------------







> National Institute for Literacy







> Assessment mailing list







> Assessment at nifl.gov







>







> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to







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> -------------------------------







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> Assessment mailing list







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> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to







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> Email delivered to andresmuro at aol.com







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>







> ________________________________________________________________________







> More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -







> http://webmail.aol.com







> -------------------------------







> National Institute for Literacy







> Assessment mailing list







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> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to







> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment







> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu







>























-- 







JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall







Professor, Education Department







Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture







Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual







Education







University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)







1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250







ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880







email: crandall at umbc.edu







www.umbc.edu/llc/







www.umbc.edu/esol/







www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html































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Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
 


JoAnn 
(Jodi) Crandall

Professor 
and Director

Language, 
Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program

Director, 
Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual 
Education

University 
of Maryland Baltimore County

1000 
Hilltop Circle

Baltimore, 
MD 21250

tel:  
410-455-2313

fax: 
410-455-8947

eml: 
crandall at umbc.edu

 

 



 

_________________________________________________________________
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From teacherwendyq at gmail.com  Fri Feb  8 21:29:45 2008
From: teacherwendyq at gmail.com (Wendy Quinones)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 21:29:45 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1222] Re: Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
	Instruction--registration opens
In-Reply-To: <948347.18120.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <948347.18120.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ad2cc1ef0802081829n33353f3aw734203ff7de8467c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Bonnie and Forrest,
I am the developer and facilitator for this course, and I'm delighted to
hear that you registered, Bonnie!  I have taught transition-to-college
courses as well as ABE reading and writing from low-intermediate through
GED, as well as freshman comp at the community college level.  What we do in
this course is applicable at all those levels, as well as in ESOL. I don't
have much ESOL experience myself, but quite a few participants in similar
courses I've run have been ESOL teachers and they have been able to use the
concepts in wonderfully creative ways.  I think the principles of MI and DI
can be used at any level and any setting, and the course is flexible
enough to allow for use anywhere -- basically participants will learn
principles and then use them by making a lesson plan for their own
practice.  I've done several of these courses, and they are fun!

Hope I'll see many of you there,
Wendy Quinones


On Feb 8, 2008 7:33 PM, Bonnie Odiorne <bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>  I am going to try the course; I just registered. As I've been following
> the discussion with interest, I've been very intrigued by the issue of
> multiple ihntelligences as they impact college transition, differentiated
> classrooms (from the point of view of skills levels as well as intrinsic
> motivation) and the increasing number of "developmental" students,
> regardless of their educational backgrounds. If colleges and universities
> could get out of the "developmental" model to a curriculum revision model
> that enhances instructional changes (faculty are now talking about Bloom's
> taxonomy as a starting point for curriculum revision), including
> differentiated instruction... I do this wearing several hats: while I was in
> adult education previously, in various ABE/ESOL programs, including tutor
> training (so the comments about CBOs and standards for volunteers is a very
> difficult topic), family, workplace, employability with technological
> enhancement literacy programs ccombining ABE and ESOL students, I am now
> teaching French (?!; it used to be ESOL but the university did away with its
> formalized program) developmental English composition, freshman college
> success seminars, working with a summer "bridge" program for at risk
> students, and I am also director of the university writing center. Writing
> across the curriculum, writing to learn, and multiple intelligences seemed
> to me to be answers to the differentiated classroom. I also identify with
> funding: my jobs are both part-time... and assesment (I work with the
> learning center to administer Accuplacer). We also have a lot of
> developmental problems with online students so I do writing center advising
> electronically....
> Coincidentally, I'd been invited to facilitate an Oakland Unified Schools
> District ESOL teachers' retreat with a mindfulness activity (I chose walking
> the labyrinth) in relation to multiple intelligences, but I couldn't get the
> life scan fingerprinting done in time, alas. I may have some role in this
> program but I'm not quite sure what. In any event, when things come together
> like this, I tend to listen up,  so thought I needed to take advantage of
> the opportunity to take the course.
> Cheers, all you dedicated practitioners out there.
> Bonnie Odiorne, Ph.D. Post University Waterbury CT
>   ----- Original Message ----
> From: Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net>
> To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
> Sent: Friday, February 8, 2008 1:38:48 PM
> Subject: [Assessment 1194] Re: Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
> Instruction--registration opens
>
>  Very interesting. Anyone going to try it?
>
>
>
> Forrest
>
>
>
> *From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] *On
> Behalf Of *Kaye Beall
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:41 PM
> *To:* assessment at nifl.gov
> *Subject:* [Assessment 1181] Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
> Instruction--registration opens
>
>
>
> World Education is pleased to offer *Multiple Intelligences and
> Differentiated Instruction* as an online training.
>
>
>
> The course syllabus and registration details are attached. Contact Kaye
> Beall at kaye_beall at worlded.org with questions.
>
> ************************
>
>
>
> *Adult Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated Instruction*
>
> * *
>
> *Course Dates: *March 12?May 13, 2008; Online chats during Lessons 3, 4,
> and 5
>
>
>
> *Course Description*
>
> Research conducted by the National Center for the Study of Adult Learning
> and Literacy shows that instructional practices inspired by Multiple
> Intelligences (MI) theory resulted in high levels of authentic instruction
> and student engagement.
>
> Integrate your understanding of Multiple Intelligences (MI) theory with
> the power of differentiated instruction in this facilitated, eight-session
> course. You'll learn how to apply MI theory and differentiate instruction
> for all levels of adult basic education and English for speakers of other
> languages. The facilitator will guide you as you develop your own MI-based
> lessons.
>
>
>
> *Objectives*
>
> Upon completion of this course you will be able to:
>
> *Apply the theory of multiple intelligences (MI) to design learning
> activities that match your learning objectives
>
> *Use varying methods of differentiated instruction (DI) that address the
> different skills and interests of your learners
>
> *Apply knowledge of your own MI profile to your classroom teaching
>
> *Produce and reflect on a lesson or unit using both MI and DI
>
>
>
> *Required Text:*
>
> Viens, Julie and Silja Kallenbach. *Multiple Intelligences and Adult
> Literacy: A Sourcebook for Practitioners. *(New York: Teachers College
> Press, 2004. Copies of the required textbook can be obtained from the
> publisher, Teachers College Press (TCP), the publisher at
> http://store.tcpress.com/0807743461.shtml. The cost is $27.95 per copy.
>
>
>
> *Course Format and Schedule: *facilitated, online
>
> During this eight-week course, you will engage in self-paced activities
> and readings, as well as asynchronous discussions with the facilitators and
> course participants. Three synchronous chats will be scheduled during
> Lessons 3, 4, and 5.
>
>
>
> *Syllabus: *See attached PDF?AMI Course Details.
>
>
>
> *Course Facilitator: *Wendy Qui?ones
>
>
>
> *Estimated Completion Time: *40 hours
>
>
>
> *Registration: *Complete and return the attached registration form-[PDF].
> Payment must be received prior to enrollment. Registration is limited to 20
> participants.
>
>
>
> *Cancellation policy: *World Education reserves the right to cancel the
> course if the minimum number of registrants is not met by *March 4, 2008.*
>
>
>
> Kaye Beall
>
> Project Director
>
> World Education
>
> 6760 West Street
>
> Linn Grove, IN 46711
>
> 765-717-3942
>
> kaye_beall at worlded.org
>
> www.worlded.org
>
>
>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to teacherwendyq at gmail.com
>
>
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From jschneider at eicc.edu  Fri Feb  8 23:17:32 2008
From: jschneider at eicc.edu (Schneider, Jim)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 22:17:32 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1223] Re: {Dangerous Content?}
	RE:No	QuestionsorComments?!
References: <4CA15A25-2C3D-42D0-BAF3-C0ED4E232D86@umbc.edu><208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870AD7F759@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
	<00b601c86aa3$56cda3b0$0468eb10$@net>
Message-ID: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB8708AA1FFB@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>

The Spanish GED instruction is offered Tues & Thurs evening as a part of our Family Literacy program which is funded with Federal Benchmark Incentive $'s. They also attend ESL on Mon. & Wed. evening - on average they attend 4-6 hours a week. Some do 8 hours, but not all of them. Several of the students have attempted the official practice tests in English and Spanish. They typically do better in the Spanish, but have taken the parallel form in both languages and say that they understand the context of the Spanish better having read the English. 

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Fri 2/8/2008 4:38 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1214] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE:No	QuestionsorComments?!
 
Jim,

 

Are they doing so at the same time? That's quite a commitment/motivation if
they are. And it gives us YET ANOTHER example of how to use the Spanish GED.


 

Forrest

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Schneider, Jim
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 2:22 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1195] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No
QuestionsorComments?!

 

Most of our Spanish GED students are attending the ESL classes as well.

 

Jim

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 10:49 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1185] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No
QuestionsorComments?!

Jim, 

 

I think you've summarized how I feel as well.

 

We can discuss the various options with students, but in the end, if we
offer Spanish Literacy and Spanish GED, it's their choice.  Some will choose
to do everything in English and take longer to do it, but others will choose
to work in their own language.  For some students, the Spanish GED provides
short-term benefits.  But they will still need ESL for future academic or
vocational training, if they have limited English.

 

Have any programs tried to encourage students in Spanish Literacy or Spanish
GED to take ESL classes as well?

 

Jodi

 

 

 

 

On Feb 8, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Schneider, Jim wrote:





I feel compelled to put my two cents in on the Spanish GED. 

 

My experience is that both Andres and Ted have valid points. Here in Eastern
Iowa, there are few bilingual employers. Employers that are bilingual rarely
pay the best wages and are typically short of employees if there are any
signs of INS.  

 

On the other hand, many of the students who have completed the Spanish GED
are already employed, and have fairly decent English skills, but are short
on time. Attaining the GED provides them the opportunity for advancement at
work and/or access to postsecondary education/training. 

 

It has been excruciating watch the one or two who insist on the GED in
English get through the Literature and Writing portions of the test. 

 

And the difficulty of the new Spanish GED tests are such that it is a rare
student who can pass it. The old Spanish GED was attainable for most
learners who had a 6-8th grade education. We have found that it is virtually
impossible for anyone with less than a 10-11 grade education By simply
translating the English test into Spanish and then utilizing the standard
scores/norms of the English test, students who have passed it, have EARNED
their GED. 

 

Jim S.  

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Ted Klein
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 8:49 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1175] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
orComments?!

Andres,

 

I'm not too sure that some of your perspectives haven't been somewhat
altered by living in El Paso. I say that with total respect for El Paso and
for your answer. Let me explain. First, I've lived in Texas most of my life,
except for some time overseas. I know just about all of our border towns,
from El Paso to Brownsville. I've also lived in nine countries outside of
the United States and traveled perhaps in twenty more. AXIOM: All over the
world, border towns are different  from other towns. Persons, regardless of
ancestry,  who live in border towns anywhere tend to be bicultural and
bilingual. They also tend to identify with each other on close levels as
being a well-made "tossed salad." If most or all of your students plan to
stay in El Paso for the rest of their lives, I totally agree with what you
say. However, if they want to go to cities north of the border area; Dallas,
Ft. Worth, Austin, Houston, Waco, or out of state, then the picture changes.
I am almost as comfortable in Spanish as I am in English and have dealt with
persons from every country in Latin America comfortably and successfully, as
well as Spain. However, I do not represent anything close to a majority,
particularly when it comes to having a business. When persons go for job
interviews in non-border towns, being truly bilingual is a great asset and
can even result in higher pay and better opportunities. That is true for
Spanish speakers and English speakers. However, most of your persons who
have had to take the GED in Spanish are not truly bilingual. That's a fact
and when they go for a job interview, the human resources person doesn't
need paperwork to know that there may be communication problems with clients
and on the telephone. The fact is that life is short. However it is long
enough for persons to spend a couple of more years acquiring English if it
gives them more options in life. Again, if they plan to spend their lives in
a border town, this may not be a problem at all. 

 

Three years ago, my wife and I and one of our colleagues, took an ESL
teaching gig at a cookie factory in Austin. Quite a few of their employees
did not speak English and the company wanted to fix that situation. There
were 27 persons who had volunteered to take English classes at work, maybe
six hours a week. The first problem was how to determine divisions of 27
students among three teachers. I got out a brief "test" that I had used to
determine readiness for the ALCPT tests in the past.

 

Here is a copy:

 

ORAL INTERVIEW QUESTIONS TO DETERMINE ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE

                                                      Block 2
Ted Klein

Questions marked with an asterisk * are mandatory. Of the remaining
questions, ten should be selected at random. Speech of the interviewer will
be at normal speed and clarity, with NO exaggeration.

1. What is your name please?*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

2. Where are you from?* -------

3. What part of XXXXXXX are you from?-------

4. What is your native language? -------

5. How long have you been in America? -------

6. Do you read English?* -------

7. Did you study English in your country? -------

8. How long did you study English? -------

9. Are you enjoying the U.S.A? -------

10. What do you like here? -------

11. Is there anything that you don't like? -------

12. Have you studied any other languages besides English? -------

13. Why do you want to learn English? -------

14. How many years of education have you had? -------

15. Do you have any hobbies? What are they? -------

16. Do you have any American friends to practice English with? -------

17. Do you work?  Where? -------

18. What are your plans for the future? -------

19. Why did you come to America? -------

20. Do you have any questions for me? -------

Mark responses: 0 no answer.   0+ telegraphic/very simple response. 

1 simple, but complete response.  1+ functional and clear response.

2   somewhat elaborate, fairly clear and mostly grammatical response.

Interviewees with ten or more answers in the 1+ to 2 range should be ready
to take a written

proficiency test of listening and reading skills. Non-readers are excluded.
(ref: Ques. 6)

 

The three of us interviewed the 27 candidates together. 19 out of the 27
were not able to answer the second question: e.g. (Teacher) Where are you
from?

(Candidate) ?Mande?  (Teacher) Where are you from? ?Como?  (Teacher) Are you
from Mexico? (Candidate) M?xico, "jes." One answered, "M?xico, no, Peru s?."

 

The 8 students who were able to answer that question and maybe four or five
more questions were assigned to an "advanced class." The others were split
into two groups. What happened here? Many of these persons had lived in
Austin for some time. Some for up to ten years. Most had families. The
families naturally used Spanish at home, even their children who spoke
English at school. They had Spanish-speaking supervisors. They watched
television in Spanish. They ate at Mexican restaurants. They went to
Spanish-speaking doctors. 95% of their friends were Hispanic. In plain
language, if they wanted to stay at the cookie factory, making cookies, they
didn't need English, although the company preferred that they know English
for upward mobility. This program went on for three or four months.The
company merged and our program ended. We did not use Spanish in class. In
early training I use materials that I developed based on some of the old
"direct methods;" picture flashcards, Cuisenaire rods, etc. and we also
concentrated strongly on English sounds, particularly listening and
identification. The program went surprisingly well and many of the students
were very disappointed when it ended. They had already found some new places
to go and some were acquiring English-speaking friends.

 

So what is the good news? Several of our former students have entered the
Austin Community College AE program and are doing well. One of them is in my
class now. She has a child and often works at night at the cookie factory.
Sometimes she comes in looking very tired, but she's surviving. She wants to
be a Certified Nursing Assistant. She'll make it! She plans to take the GED
in English next year and enter the Nursing Program at ACC. Most of her
future patients will not be bilingual and she will be ready for them. 

 

That's about it.

 

Ted  

www.tedklein-ESL.com

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: andresmuro at aol.com 

To: assessment at nifl.gov 

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 12:02 PM

Subject: [Assessment 1153] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

 

Ted:

How would the employer know the language that Julian took the GED in?
In most states the certificate does not tell you the Language. Texas is one
of the few states that tells you the language. However, it is so hard to
find that most people wouldn't even know. I have a hard time finding the
language reference even though I have seen millions of certificates. Fact is
most employers don't even know that people can take the GED in anything
other than English, don't ask and do not scrutinize certificates to figure
out scores, language, etc. A few might, but the majority don't. For low
literacy Spanish speakers it may take them a couple of years to be ready to
take the GED in Spanish. It make take them 2 more years to be ready for the
English GED. Would you rather hold them two more years. They can take the
GED in Spanish and continue to study English. Once they have sufficient
English, they can decide if they want to take it in English or to move on to
other things.

Andres

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Klein <taklein at austin.rr.com>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 6:58 am
Subject: [Assessment 1150] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

Jodi and Andres,

 

There is one very real problem with taking the GED in Spanish that I'm aware
of. If you have two immigrants, Roberto and Ju?n, and they both apply for
the same job and if Ju?n took the GED in Spanish and Roberto took it in
English, guess who gets the job?

Yes, life isn't fair, but most U.S. businesses prefer persons who have gone
"all the way" with English. My students and I have discussed this and they
have seen or know of this situation with their friends and family members.
That is why many AE students remain longer in our ESL classes. Of course in
many border towns, this may not be as important since many of the employers
are Hispanic or are native speakers of English who are functional in
Spanish. However, many customers of the businesses will need to use English.


 

In my current class in Austin, Texas with eleven students, five different
languages are spoken. Should we offer the GED in Arabic, Chinese, Korean,
and Juba as well as Spanish?

 

 

Ted

www.tedklein-ESL.com 

 

 

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: andresmuro at aol.com 

To: crandall at umbc.edu ; assessment at nifl.gov 

Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 5:21 PM

Subject: [Assessment 1146] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

 

Jodi:

The credit ESL program in the college is very academic. However it provides
students with financial aid and other goodies. We feel that the students
will not do well in a credit academic ESL program until they have a level
comparable to GED in their native language. Also, a GED certificate is a way
to demonstrate ability to benefit to qualify for financial aid. Those
students who get into the credit ESL program without native language
literacy don't do well. 

Students can attend other ESL classes in the community while they are
attending our classes. We stopped providing ESL because of limited funding
to provide what we would consider meaningful ESL. Also, our Spanish GED
program is fairly intensive and our students would not have enough time to
attend an additional program. We have a few students who may be attending
our classes and an ESL class concurrently. Those are a minority

The truth is that we started as an ESL literacy program many years ago.
There was virtually no funding for  literacy ESL unless it  had all kind of
testing requirements. Also, it is very hard to train teachers to be really
good at ESL. The system that encourages large number of untrained part
timers prevents this from happening. 

I know that a lot of people in these listservs claim exemplary service and
illustrate  with examples of what they have done. I don't doubt that  their
claims are 100% true. However,  we are in the minority. If I could get you
and Heide and Elsa and Andy Nash and Leonore and Deborah Schwartz, and Anson
Green and Federico and others to be my ESL teachers, I would have the best
program in the world. However, the fact is that in addition to the barriers
that ESL students face in their daily lives, plus the bureaucratic and
assessment barriers that the system creates for teachers and students, plus
the difficulty hiring and retaining highly qualified ESL staff makes it very
difficult to have a successful ESL program. 

I feel that until we get rid of WIA/NRS it will be tough to create good
stuff in a systematic way. 

Andres



 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 1:27 pm
Subject: [Assessment 1141] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!

Andres,



























It is great that you provide Spanish language literacy and GED classes for













your students.  There's no question that native language literacy













contributes not just to the development of the first language, but also to













English language development when students take oral ESL classes.  There













is some research in this area by Michele Burtoff with Haitians in the U.S.













and there is a lot of research (see especially research by David Ramirez













which compares children who had 6, 3 or no years of bilingual education)













that shows that providing bilingual education not only has all the













benefits that would be expected, but students also achieve in English as













well or better than those who only had instruction in English.



























We also found that Spanish GED classes had large numbers of students at













the colleges, since students who take the GED in Spanish are able to













bypass the need for extensive ESL just to get this credential.  They might













want to take ESL as well, but the desire for the GED is often for













work-related reasons.  I'm not clear on why you ask students to wait until













after they have passed the GED to take ESL classes.  Can you tell us a













little more about that?



























Of course not all students who enroll in adult ESL are Spanish speakers













and there may not be enough who speak any language to provide literacy













classes for them in their own language, but programs might try to partner













with immigrant or refugee-related community-based organizations which













could reach more students and also identify someone to provide the













instruction.  Still, there will  be students who will not be able to take













literacy classes in their own languages and for them, a separate ESL













literacy class seems to be the best option.



























It would be great to hear from others about their experiences both with













first language (Spanish and other languages) literacy classes, Spanish GED













classes, and literacy ESL classes.



























How do you place students in your literacy classes?  Do you use a













standardized test or do you have informal ways of determining if someone













would be better served in a literacy ESL class?









































Jodi



























>













>  Problem is that in many ESL people are placed in ESL classes based on an













> English placement multiple choice test. A student with advanced education













> in L1 and one with little education in L1 may know very little English













> and they may both be placed in the same level. The student with advance













> education will progress much faster than the one with little education.













> The advanced L1 student will understand concepts like sentence,













> paragraph, verb, subject, direct object, adjective, composition and essay













> readily. The one with with little education will need to understand these













> concepts. It takes a while for people to master these concepts. A highly













> educated L2? learner will likely progress faster academically in a second













> language than a fluent native speaker of that? language with limited













> academic education, for the same reason. This is observed regularly in













> universities all over the US. highly educated foreign students who













> acquired English as L2 recently will do better than their Eng













>  lish speaking counterparts in academic tasks in English. Jim Cummins has













> articulated this clearly with his BICS and CALPS.













>













> In our program at El Paso Community College we have found evidence of













> this. We stopped doing literacy ESL a while back for this reason. The













> college has an academic ESL program. Instead of doing ESL literacy we













> started offering Spanish Literacy and GED many years ago since the vast













> majority of our students are Spanish speakers. Once our students acquire













> their Spanish GED they transition into the ESL program and do better than













> those students who don't have L1 academic skills. Even if takes them a













> while to acquire the L1 literacy, they will do better. Those with no L1













> literacy often stay in ESL forever and they drop out, start again in













> another program, drop out and continue the same pattern. I think that this













> happens because of the mixture of academically ready students and those













> that are not ready, since most ESL programs focus on traditional













> academics. For L1 low literacy students to be able to progress in L2 there













> has to be a program specifically designed for them that teache













>  s skills in L2 in new and innovative ways without interference from













> academically skilled L1 students. Right now we don't have a system that













> systematically does this, and the WIA/NRS system prevents this form













> happening.













>













> Hope that this makes sense,













>













> Andres













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> -----Original Message-----













> From: Jackie Coelho <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>













> To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>













> Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 5:01 am













> Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or













> Comments?!













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> Forrest,













>













>













> ?? I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy













> background and those without. These two groups have such different needs.













> Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs













> of either group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate













> the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor













> does not keep up with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they













> often become frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the













> instructor keeps up with those students, the others are unable to keep up













> and they get frustrated.













>













>













>













> ? I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of













> how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.













>













>













> Jackie













>













> ?













>













>













> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in













> student performance:













>













>













> ?













>













>













> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly













> educated students do better in terms of ?persistence, learning gains, and













> transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably













> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education













> makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of













> their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That













> is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education













> makes? Or any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior













> education that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are













> completely illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high













> school graduates, college graduates, etc. -- ?or is level of prior













> education pretty much of a continuum?













>













>













>













> ?













>













>













> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly













> educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably students













> with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower













> level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by













> definition) ?in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes













> math. Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at













> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be













> desirable to place less highly educated students in separate classes from













> those with more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for













> them accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or













> the Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these













> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of













> "bi-lingual education" that should be tried?













>













>













>













> ?













>













>













> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the













> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of













> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large













> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means),













> ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very little education













> in their native countries and too little money to serve them. ?So anyone













> who has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a













> lot by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.













>













>













>













> ?













>













>













> Forrest Chisman













>













>













> Vice President













>













>













> CAAL













>













>













> ?













>













>













> ??













>













>













> ?













>













>













>













>













> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
<mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov?> ] On













> Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu













>













> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM













> To: The Assessment Discussion List













> Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or













> Comments?!













>













>













>













>













>













>













> ?













>













>













>













> Hi Jackie,













>













> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my













> former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual education













> in the K-12 school system.













>













>













> Tina













>













> Tina Luffman













> Coordinator, Developmental Education













> Verde Valley Campus













> 928-634-6544













> tina_luffman at yc.edu













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> "Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>













>













> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov













>













>













> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













>













> Please respond to













> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>













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> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>













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> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or ? ? ?













> ?Comments?!













>













>













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>













> Hi Tina,













>













> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in













> favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in













>













> the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation













> in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second













> or third language.













>













> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not













> written.













>













>













> Jackie













>













>













> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:













>













>> Hi list members,













>>













>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to that













>> of













>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country













>> they













>













>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather quickly













>> and













>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their country













>> or













>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much













>













>> advancement.













>>













>> This experience relates well to research done among Native American













>> tribes













>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught













>> literacy













>













>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who













>> tried













>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their own













>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The













>













>> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much













>> easier













>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this is













>> something deserving more research.













>













>>













>> Tina













>> Tina Luffman













>> Coordinator, Developmental Education













>> Verde Valley Campus













>> 928-634-6544













>> tina_luffman at yc.edu













>













>>













>> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----













>>













>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>













>













>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>













>> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov













>













>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM













>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or













>> Comments?!













>>













>>













>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed













>













>> Warning: (not named).













>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more













>> information.













>>













>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three













>> years)













>













>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,













>> particularly if













>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at













>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I













>> would













>













>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a













>> student













>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because













>> he/she













>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try













>> to













>













>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard













>> concept













>> in a second language.













>>













>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play













>> a













>













>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned













>> from













>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than













>> classes).













>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.













>> It's













>













>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL













>> teachers.













>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging













>> me













>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're













>













>> making some progress.













>>













>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?













>>













>> ________________________________













>>













>













>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora













>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM













>













>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov













>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!













>













>>













>>













>> Hello everyone,













>>













>> I'm so surprised! ?No one has anything to comment on regarding your













>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? ?I was very













>













>> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that













>> Dr.













>> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research: ?a lack of intensity













>> of













>> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities













>> for













>













>> professional development.













>>













>> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL













>> student













>> from advancing? ?What do you try to do about that?













>>













>













>> Please post your questions and comments now.













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>> Thanks!













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University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)













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ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880













email: crandall at umbc.edu













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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

Professor and Director

Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program

Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education

University of Maryland Baltimore County

1000 Hilltop Circle

Baltimore, MD 21250

tel:  410-455-2313

fax: 410-455-8947

eml: crandall at umbc.edu

 

 





 


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From forrest at crosslink.net  Fri Feb  8 22:11:57 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 22:11:57 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1224] Re: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <8CA38AB69CF6173-11A8-26BB@webmail-stg-d09.sysops.aol.com>
References: <CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B2E@exchr.raritanval.edu>	<007201c86a04$26b41a50$741c4ef0$@net>	<CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B3C@exchr.raritanval.edu>	<001f01c86a69$364ee6b0$a2ecb410$@net>	<8CA3889EA7B2E7B-1014-2817@webmailbeta-m10.sysops.aol.com>	<9896493C-9886-4CD1-8578-D7DD25EEE11D@umbc.edu>
	<8CA38AB69CF6173-11A8-26BB@webmail-stg-d09.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <000901c86ac9$8d97b680$a8c72380$@net>

Very sad. This seems to be the story of WIB coordinating councils in most areas. There are some cities (Pittsburg and Hartford come to mind) where there are independent local literacy councils that seem to be able to coordinate things pretty well. Absent that, having a single comprehensive lead provider seems to be the only way to get coordination. That seems to be one reason why a growing number of states have channeled all their funding through Community College Boards ? which then sub-contract with other providers in various ways.

 

Forrest

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of jhalaesl at aol.com
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 3:51 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1205] Re: (no subject)

 

 

We do have a WIB Literacy Committee and a Literacy Council linked to that committee. Well-intentioned participants but no action/change seems to result from meetings. There is not budget--or at least no funding freely available to the participating providers. Instead the $ flows through the One Stop Learning Link, targeting important needs that are often not the predominant needs of our ESL/ESOL programs. FYI - the Learning Link is managed by the local college (RVCC where Kevin is working)

The council coordinates dialog but always with a To-Work focus.

Actually the best collegial connections have come through professional organizations (NJALL - New jersey Association for Lifelong Learning)  and through contacts made while presenting at Adult Ed conferences.
How to find time and money for more adult educators to attend those conferences? and how to keep the enthusiasm and motivation going long enough afterward to effect some benefit?

Joanne

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jodi Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 1:09 pm
Subject: [Assessment 1191] Re: (no subject)

Joanne, 

 

Bravo!  Making connections with such limited funds is critical.  I remember when major cities had  councils which coordinated literacy/ESL services.  I wonder if any of you have some kind of even an  informal network that meets to discuss the most efficient and effective ways to use the minimal funds that are available.

Jodi

 

On Feb 8, 2008, at 11:50 AM, jhalaesl at aol.com wrote:





Not always the reason for an LEA-to-local college turnover of those federal and state adult ed funds
In my experience, it has simply and sadly been the result of limited resources and insufficient funds.
And in some areas a CBO (not an LEA) manages those grant programs, offers classes free to the lowest literacy ESL/ESOL students, and is never able to fully bridge the gap between very part-time instruction and college.

One key element to our small successes has been having colleagues in each institution (local college, LEA, CBO, gov't DOE/DOL) who understand the dynamics and the gaps. Granted, most are still limited by the systems in which they work and to which they must be accountable. But there is still much to be said for permitting ourselves some case-by-case thinking, making those simple phone calls, and asking.

Joanne Hala
Literacy Serrvices
Jointure for Community Adult Education, Inc.

?ve heard an increasing number of stories about areas were the LEA runs the federal/state  adult education ESL grant program and has asked the local college to take it over (because the LEA has concluded it?s an ?adult? program). Have there been any rumblings of that in your area?

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net>
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List' <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 10:42 am
Subject: [Assessment 1179] Re: (no subject)

Kevin,

 

Thanks for the explanation. I find it VERY useful. It?s a very interesting model. I?m not surprised that your students are motivated for college, because they?ve signed up for a college prep track! What worries me are the limited aspirations of many lower level ESL students who may have college potential. 

 

I understand now why you don?t have the resources to operate a more comprehensive program. I?ve heard an increasing number of stories about areas were the LEA runs the federal/state  adult education ESL grant program and has asked the local college to take it over (because the LEA has concluded it?s an ?adult? program). Have there been any rumblings of that in your area?

 

Best of luck in your good work.

 

Forrest    

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov <mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov?> ] On Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 9:42 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List; The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1174] Re: (no subject)

 

I believe we do have a hard time getting enough students fed into our program and with the appropriate background to succeed if they do come to us. It is a real problem. There are some workplace ESL programs which are run through our Corporate and Continuing Education Office, but those students rarely, if ever, come to us. And they serve the employees of specific companies as opposed to the community at large. 

 

Our ESL program is within an academic department in the college (Communication and Languages) and so is run like every other. ESL students pay the same tuition and fees as all other students at the college. We do not receive special government funding beyond what the state and counties provide for the college as a whole as a part of our yearly budget.

 

Finances are probably a big reason why we are getting fewer students at the low levels. Community programs are free or low cost; although in the scheme of higher education, the community college is less expensive, it may still be out of reach of many students. 

 

In terms of having a more comprehensive program, we are limited by a small staff, and the unlikelihood of being able to expand given college budgeting restraints. In addition, our three full-time faculty members (including myself) not only teach 15 credit hours per semester but also do the administrative work required. We do advising, scheduling, and the many other tasks associate with keeping the program afloat. The only "official" administrative support for the program is through the 3 hours of overload I receive to serve as Adjunct Coordinator. 

 

The belief that they can attend college does not seem to be a problem with our population although I can certainly see that it could be. A growing problem for us (and many around the country) is the disconnect between high schools and colleges in terms of student preparation. Either the high schools do not think the students are college-bound and so don't bother to give them a college-prep course of study, or there is simply a growing gap between the expectations of each. Additionally, students seem to think that a high school diploma equates to college readiness.

 

We do our best to advise students, but we don't always have enough time - and as professors primarily - may not know ourselves what all of the options for students are. 

 

Kevin 

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 10:38 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1172] Re: (no subject)

Dear Kevin,

 

Many thanks for providing all of us with a profile of your program. Seeing the variety of college program goals and designs is extremely valuable in stimulating ideas about how to do a better job in delivering ESL.

 

Personally, I think that it is perfectly valid for colleges to elect to offer solely pre-academic ESL at the non-credit level. But it does prompt the concern about whether other programs in the college?s service area are providing non-academic ESL to large enough numbers of students and at a high enough quality to ?feed? the college program ? as well as how well their efforts articulate with yours. I wonder whether this troubles you, and if so whether/how you have addressed the issue.  Frankly, I think one reason why many colleges offer comprehensive ESL programs is that they would prefer to ?make? pre-academic students themselves, rather than rely on others to do it. Another reason, of course, if that they may not be eligible for federal/state grant money unless they offer comprehensive programs. Does your college receive these funds to support its pre-academic program? If not, how is it supported financially?

 

I heartily agree that helping students set realistic goals and understand their options is essential. I believe, however, that encouraging students to expand their goals as they succeed is also essential. For example, many immigrants come from countries where going to college is the privilege of very few, and thus may consider that an unrealistic goal  unless they are encouraged to take the steps necessary (often one step at a time). The problem seems to be that it is hard for most programs to find the resources to provide very much guidance of any of these kinds to most students. I wonder if anyone has any solutions to THAT issue. 

 

In any event, many thanks for fleshing out an interesting model.  

 

Forrest     

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov <mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov?> ] On Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:19 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1148] (no subject)

 

Hi All,

 

I have been reading most of the discussion comments and wanted to address a few issues. First, however, I'll give a summary of our program. 

 

I teach ESL at Raritan Valley Community College in New Jersey. Our program serves approximately 350 students from diverse language backgrounds. Our program offers two pre-academic levels of all skills ESL instruction (a six hour per week non-credit class). In addition, we have 5 levels of academic ESL preparation divided into three courses - Reading/Writing, Grammar, and Speaking/Listening). Our highest level Reading/Writing course gives successful students 6 elective credits that count towards RVCC graduation, but those credits do not transfer. Our semesters are 15 weeks. If a student misses 20% of any class, the instructor may withdraw that student (they are not, however, obliged to withdraw these students). At the moment, the late enrollment policy is that students may register for a course prior to the second week of class but not thereafter. Research, of course, indicates that students who begin a class late have a much higher rate of failure than those who begin on time. 

 

In our program, we have three full-time faculty and approximately 16-18 adjuncts. 

 

We have focused our program on academic prep ESL because we are a small program with limited resources, and we have a very difficult time finding qualified adjuncts. Also, a significant majority of our students have signalled their intention to obtain a college degree. Moreover, there are community programs that offer basic English skills although there is often a long waiting list to obtain the services. In other issues, we use the Accuplacer ESL test for placement and have in-house standardized tests at the end of each level of grammar and reading/writing

 

Within our classes, highly educated non-native speakers usually progress much more quickly. One of the most challenging groups is students who graduated from local high schools but still have inadequate English skills - and not infrequently, weak academic skills in general. One of the strategies that I would personally wish for is real communication between K-12 and community colleges so that students get the language skills they need before they enter college. I understand that there is great pressure to move students out of ESL in many school districts, but ultimately, it does a huge disservice both financially and in terms of motivation to students whose skills remain more BICS than CALP. 

 

I agree with those who suggest that first language literacy issues should be addressed before students enter ESL. However, it becomes complicated to find funding and support for such efforts. In my experience, students with low level literacy skills become frustrated and are not ultimately successful - probably by any definition. I am uncomfortable with the idea that they are spending hard-earned money when the chances for success in ESL are minimal. We advise students that the program is academically-oriented; often they have little understanding of what that means. 

 

I do not agree with the suggestion that the bar be lowered so that students with low-intermediate skills be allowed in credit classes (at least at my college). Historically, other faculty have little experience handling language issues and are very unhappy when students cannot read, write and converse at an appropriate level of English. They end up feeling helpless. Students may pass classes; however, I suspect that instructors do not want to deal with the challenges and so turn a blind eye and let them through. Recently, there has been a problem in the nursing department with non-native English speaking students not passing board exams because they enter the college from other programs and circumvent ESL with us. They have trouble reading and answering questions on the exam. This is a significant problem because nursing programs are judged in terms of the success of their students on these standardized exams. 

 

I think the measure of success should be based on a realistic assessment of student goals combined with a real-life discussion of the possibilities and limitations. Ideally, students would have incremental goals so that success could build. If the goals for students with low literacy levels are not carefully discussed and planned, then they will likely encounter more failure than success because their expectaions will be unrealistic. The more we have the opportunity to talk to students, the more likely it is that they can develop short-term goals that are within their reach. Unfortunately, we have no control over the myriad of complications that accrue in their every day lives. 

 

Apologies for the length.

 

Kevin Hinkle, Ph.D.

Assistant Professor of ESL/Adjunct Coordinator

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JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

Professor and Director

Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program

Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education

University of Maryland Baltimore County

1000 Hilltop Circle

Baltimore, MD 21250

tel:  410-455-2313

fax: 410-455-8947

eml: crandall at umbc.edu

 

 

 

 

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From forrest at crosslink.net  Fri Feb  8 22:24:50 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 22:24:50 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1225] Re: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <8CA38BF2D34BD1E-964-5EC9@webmail-md20.sysops.aol.com>
References: <CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B2E@exchr.raritanval.edu>	<007201c86a04$26b41a50$741c4ef0$@net>	<CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B3C@exchr.raritanval.edu>	<001f01c86a69$364ee6b0$a2ecb410$@net>	<8CA3889EA7B2E7B-1014-2817@webmailbeta-m10.sysops.aol.com>	<9896493C-9886-4CD1-8578-D7DD25EEE11D@umbc.edu>	<009d01c86a9f$35a66220$a0f32660$@net>
	<8CA38BF2D34BD1E-964-5EC9@webmail-md20.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <001901c86acb$56c4e9f0$044ebdd0$@net>

God bless you. But surely we deserve a real system to achieving this ? one that doesn?t rely on the individual initiative of  great people. Because a lot of great people just can?t devote the time or don?t have the ?contacts.? Until we get beyond where we are, Adult Education will consistently sub-optimize, and will be a ?system? in name only. 

 

Forrest

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of jhalaesl at aol.com
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 6:12 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1217] Re: (no subject)

 

 

 

Forrest - you are on target with your comments about the CBO-college connection, or lack thereof. And yes many fall through the cracks. Hence my previous comments about having contacts. This is not a systematized network of contacts (I'm a tad cynical about that route), but those in one's personal/professional circle--the people who can tell us when/if the system can be flexed, or not. 

Without those contacts it would be very difficult for me to refer ESL students from our CBO program (FYI much time and effort spent ensuring that our programs are high-quality, accountable, and learner-driven) to other providers, including the college. Our students place a great deal of trust in our willingness and ability to help them get the education they need at a price/time/place that works. When I make a referral, it is a personal one, preceded by my phone call/e-mail to the contact. And always including my/their follow-up.


Fortunately the people on the other end of the referral know to refer back to me if their program is not suitable.
Joanne

-----Original Message-----
From: Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net>
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List' <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 5:08 pm
Subject: [Assessment 1208] Re: (no subject)

Joanne,

 

I?m interested in the question Jodi asks too. As I understand it, local literacy councils have been on the wane, but I hope I?m wrong about that.

 

I?m aware that CBO?s are the federal/state grant providers in some areas, although nationwide (according to DOE surveys anyway) they serve a far smaller percentage of students than do LEA?s and colleges. I mean them no disrespect.  I?ve seen some that were highly professionalized and provided superb service, and some that didn?t  -- just like colleges and LEA?s J! It?s the quality of the provider, not the type of provider that matters. 

 

What interests me more is your reference to the implicit ?division of labor? between CBO?s and colleges or LEA?s you mention. I think that in some areas this is fairly common: colleges or LEA?s refer the lowest level students to CBO?s (with or without the necessary funding). In most of the cases where I?ve seen this, it doesn?t seem to work out very well. There isn?t the coordination/collaboration to which you allude. In fact, I?ve sometimes had the impression that it?s a way of dumping the hardest to serve students on CBO?s. Too often these students become ?out of sight and out of mind.? And because the students ARE the hardest to serve, low success rates make the CBO?s look bad, compared to the other providers ? unfairly. I?ve tried to chase down information about this model in the past, but I haven?t been very successful. I would love to know if any of the rest of you have experience with it, and how well you think it works. 

 

Forrest 

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov <mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov?> ] On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 1:09 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1191] Re: (no subject)

 

Joanne,

 

Bravo!  Making connections with such limited funds is critical.  I remember when major cities had  councils which coordinated literacy/ESL services.  I wonder if any of you have some kind of even an  informal network that meets to discuss the most efficient and effective ways to use the minimal funds that are available.

Jodi

 

On Feb 8, 2008, at 11:50 AM, jhalaesl at aol.com wrote:

 

Not always the reason for an LEA-to-local college turnover of those federal and state adult ed funds
In my experience, it has simply and sadly been the result of limited resources and insufficient funds.
And in some areas a CBO (not an LEA) manages those grant programs, offers classes free to the lowest literacy ESL/ESOL students, and is never able to fully bridge the gap between very part-time instruction and college.

One key element to our small successes has been having colleagues in each institution (local college, LEA, CBO, gov't DOE/DOL) who understand the dynamics and the gaps. Granted, most are still limited by the systems in which they work and to which they must be accountable. But there is still much to be said for permitting ourselves some case-by-case thinking, making those simple phone calls, and asking.

Joanne Hala
Literacy Serrvices
Jointure for Community Adult Education, Inc.

?ve heard an increasing number of stories about areas were the LEA runs the federal/state  adult education ESL grant program and has asked the local college to take it over (because the LEA has concluded it?s an ?adult? program). Have there been any rumblings of that in your area?

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net>
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List' <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 10:42 am
Subject: [Assessment 1179] Re: (no subject)

Kevin,

 

Thanks for the explanation. I find it VERY useful. It?s a very interesting model. I?m not surprised that your students are motivated for college, because they?ve signed up for a college prep track! What worries me are the limited aspirations of many lower level ESL students who may have college potential. 

 

I understand now why you don?t have the resources to operate a more comprehensive program. I?ve heard an increasing number of stories about areas were the LEA runs the federal/state  adult education ESL grant program and has asked the local college to take it over (because the LEA has concluded it?s an ?adult? program). Have there been any rumblings of that in your area?

 

Best of luck in your good work.

 

Forrest    

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov <mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov?> ] On Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 9:42 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List; The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1174] Re: (no subject)

 

I believe we do have a hard time getting enough students fed into our program and with the appropriate background to succeed if they do come to us. It is a real problem. There are some workplace ESL programs which are run through our Corporate and Continuing Education Office, but those students rarely, if ever, come to us. And they serve the employees of specific companies as opposed to the community at large. 

 

Our ESL program is within an academic department in the college (Communication and Languages) and so is run like every other. ESL students pay the same tuition and fees as all other students at the college. We do not receive special government funding beyond what the state and counties provide for the college as a whole as a part of our yearly budget.

 

Finances are probably a big reason why we are getting fewer students at the low levels. Community programs are free or low cost; although in the scheme of higher education, the community college is less expensive, it may still be out of reach of many students. 

 

In terms of having a more comprehensive program, we are limited by a small staff, and the unlikelihood of being able to expand given college budgeting restraints. In addition, our three full-time faculty members (including myself) not only teach 15 credit hours per semester but also do the administrative work required. We do advising, scheduling, and the many other tasks associate with keeping the program afloat. The only "official" administrative support for the program is through the 3 hours of overload I receive to serve as Adjunct Coordinator. 

 

The belief that they can attend college does not seem to be a problem with our population although I can certainly see that it could be. A growing problem for us (and many around the country) is the disconnect between high schools and colleges in terms of student preparation. Either the high schools do not think the students are college-bound and so don't bother to give them a college-prep course of study, or there is simply a growing gap between the expectations of each. Additionally, students seem to think that a high school diploma equates to college readiness.

 

We do our best to advise students, but we don't always have enough time - and as professors primarily - may not know ourselves what all of the options for students are. 

 

Kevin 

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 10:38 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1172] Re: (no subject)

Dear Kevin,

 

Many thanks for providing all of us with a profile of your program. Seeing the variety of college program goals and designs is extremely valuable in stimulating ideas about how to do a better job in delivering ESL.

 

Personally, I think that it is perfectly valid for colleges to elect to offer solely pre-academic ESL at the non-credit level. But it does prompt the concern about whether other programs in the college?s service area are providing non-academic ESL to large enough numbers of students and at a high enough quality to ?feed? the college program ? as well as how well their efforts articulate with yours. I wonder whether this troubles you, and if so whether/how you have addressed the issue.  Frankly, I think one reason why many colleges offer comprehensive ESL programs is that they would prefer to ?make? pre-academic students themselves, rather than rely on others to do it. Another reason, of course, if that they may not be eligible for federal/state grant money unless they offer comprehensive programs. Does your college receive these funds to support its pre-academic program? If not, how is it supported financially?

 

I heartily agree that helping students set realistic goals and understand their options is essential. I believe, however, that encouraging students to expand their goals as they succeed is also essential. For example, many immigrants come from countries where going to college is the privilege of very few, and thus may consider that an unrealistic goal  unless they are encouraged to take the steps necessary (often one step at a time). The problem seems to be that it is hard for most programs to find the resources to provide very much guidance of any of these kinds to most students. I wonder if anyone has any solutions to THAT issue. 

 

In any event, many thanks for fleshing out an interesting model.  

 

Forrest     

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov <mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov?> ] On Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:19 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1148] (no subject)

 

Hi All,

 

I have been reading most of the discussion comments and wanted to address a few issues. First, however, I'll give a summary of our program. 

 

I teach ESL at Raritan Valley Community College in New Jersey. Our program serves approximately 350 students from diverse language backgrounds. Our program offers two pre-academic levels of all skills ESL instruction (a six hour per week non-credit class). In addition, we have 5 levels of academic ESL preparation divided into three courses - Reading/Writing, Grammar, and Speaking/Listening). Our highest level Reading/Writing course gives successful students 6 elective credits that count towards RVCC graduation, but those credits do not transfer. Our semesters are 15 weeks. If a student misses 20% of any class, the instructor may withdraw that student (they are not, however, obliged to withdraw these students). At the moment, the late enrollment policy is that students may register for a course prior to the second week of class but not thereafter. Research, of course, indicates that students who begin a class late have a much higher rate of failure than those who begin on time. 

 

In our program, we have three full-time faculty and approximately 16-18 adjuncts. 

 

We have focused our program on academic prep ESL because we are a small program with limited resources, and we have a very difficult time finding qualified adjuncts. Also, a significant majority of our students have signalled their intention to obtain a college degree. Moreover, there are community programs that offer basic English skills although there is often a long waiting list to obtain the services. In other issues, we use the Accuplacer ESL test for placement and have in-house standardized tests at the end of each level of grammar and reading/writing

 

Within our classes, highly educated non-native speakers usually progress much more quickly. One of the most challenging groups is students who graduated from local high schools but still have inadequate English skills - and not infrequently, weak academic skills in general. One of the strategies that I would personally wish for is real communication between K-12 and community colleges so that students get the language skills they need before they enter college. I understand that there is great pressure to move students out of ESL in many school districts, but ultimately, it does a huge disservice both financially and in terms of motivation to students whose skills remain more BICS than CALP. 

 

I agree with those who suggest that first language literacy issues should be addressed before students enter ESL. However, it becomes complicated to find funding and support for such efforts. In my experience, students with low level literacy skills become frustrated and are not ultimately successful - probably by any definition. I am uncomfortable with the idea that they are spending hard-earned money when the chances for success in ESL are minimal. We advise students that the program is academically-oriented; often they have little understanding of what that means. 

 

I do not agree with the suggestion that the bar be lowered so that students with low-intermediate skills be allowed in credit classes (at least at my college). Historically, other faculty have little experience handling language issues and are very unhappy when students cannot read, write and converse at an appropriate level of English. They end up feeling helpless. Students may pass classes; however, I suspect that instructors do not want to deal with the challenges and so turn a blind eye and let them through. Recently, there has been a problem in the nursing department with non-native English speaking students not passing board exams because they enter the college from other programs and circumvent ESL with us. They have trouble reading and answering questions on the exam. This is a significant problem because nursing programs are judged in terms of the success of their students on these standardized exams. 

 

I think the measure of success should be based on a realistic assessment of student goals combined with a real-life discussion of the possibilities and limitations. Ideally, students would have incremental goals so that success could build. If the goals for students with low literacy levels are not carefully discussed and planned, then they will likely encounter more failure than success because their expectaions will be unrealistic. The more we have the opportunity to talk to students, the more likely it is that they can develop short-term goals that are within their reach. Unfortunately, we have no control over the myriad of complications that accrue in their every day lives. 

 

Apologies for the length.

 

Kevin Hinkle, Ph.D.

Assistant Professor of ESL/Adjunct Coordinator

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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

 

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

Professor and Director

Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program

Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education

University of Maryland Baltimore County

1000 Hilltop Circle

Baltimore, MD 21250

tel:  410-455-2313

fax: 410-455-8947

eml: crandall at umbc.edu

 

 

 

 

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From forrest at crosslink.net  Fri Feb  8 22:30:48 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 22:30:48 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1226] Re: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <4B5EE7DED9296B4A94B20684F5289B29E04790@ADMINMAIL2.ad.hccs.edu>
References: <CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B2E@exchr.raritanval.edu>	<007201c86a04$26b41a50$741c4ef0$@net>	<CF0169FB59E9C1418296115FDF51F69D054F9B3C@exchr.raritanval.edu>	<001f01c86a69$364ee6b0$a2ecb410$@net>	<4BF38AF2-AB8B-4E41-A30B-388D328E41BF@umbc.edu>	<008f01c86a9c$8a4f62c0$9eee2840$@net>
	<4B5EE7DED9296B4A94B20684F5289B29E04790@ADMINMAIL2.ad.hccs.edu>
Message-ID: <001e01c86acc$2c657b60$85307220$@net>

I think that it's almost entirely a matter of resources, Both the feds and
the states are willing to pay for student contact hours, but not much to
help improve the skills teachers bring to the "contact." Ultimately, this is
a policy/budgetary issue at the highest levels, I think. And the ESL field
as well as others will have to organize themselves to fight for it in the
corridors of power.

Forrest    

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of valerie.woodard
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 6:30 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1218] Re: (no subject)

I would love to hear from the group about "professional development"
challenges you face. How do we in-part learning theory to part-time staff
with degrees but no educational back ground.  How do we tap into the
importance of training and have staff identify with continuing professional
development. It seems to me that it would be of benefit to look at the
experience of the Adult Education instructors and requirement from the
federal grant but local authority can make up a large part of the
requirement they have adopted which does not put professional development up
front?  Resources are needed to help instructors stay sharp for the
students. 

 

Valerie Y. Woodard, MA
Program Director
Research, Evaluation & Staff Development
Community & Adult Education
Houston Community College
3100 Main St, Rm BD07E
Houston, Texas  77002
 
713-718-5363 Office
713718-5377  Fax
 
http://www.hccs.ed/adulted.mov <http://www.hccs.ed/adulteEd.mov> 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Fri 2/8/2008 3:49 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1207] Re: (no subject)



Jodi,

 

I think that's a fantastic conceptualization. As you know, I am not
well-versed in learning theory, but I can't help believing that these kinds
of ideas would be invaluable to teachers. I would love to hear from the
group whether they think most of their teachers are "up on" these kinds of
insights from learning theory and apply them. Or is this part of the
"professional development" challenge we face. It seems to me that it would
be tragic if we don't have the resources to help teachers tap into as much
of this as there is.

 

Forrest    

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 11:40 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1184] Re: (no subject)

 

Kevin,

 

Are many of your students what we now refer to as generation 1.5 students?
They have had much or most of their education in this country, but may still
need extensive help with academic English, especially in writing?

 

If so, are there any special things that you have tried to help this
population?

 

Do you also have international students?

 

Joy Reid has written extensively about "ear" learners (generation 1.5
learners would likely be here) and "eye" learners and how their needs are so
different.  Ear learners are those who were immersed in an English-speaking
environment and have learned their English orally.  As you suggest, they
have strong Basic Interpersonal Communication Skills or social language, but
may not have developed the academic language required for success in the
community college.  Eye learners are just the opposite: they have learned
English through books and lack the fluency of ear learners, but are more
likely to have more standard English  While these two groups share some
common needs, they are also very different in others.  It's a real
challenge.  Getting these ear learners prepared for the college is something
that lots of people are talking and writing about.

 

There is also the problem with the first group that they speak English and
often are offended when told they need more English, especially when it's
ESL!

 

In effect you are teaching only credit ESL, is that right?  Are there
linkages with any of the programs in the community that are teaching lower
level ESL?

 

Jodi  

On Feb 8, 2008, at 10:42 AM, Forrest Chisman wrote:





Kevin,

 

Thanks for the explanation. I find it VERY useful. It's a very interesting
model. I'm not surprised that your students are motivated for college,
because they've signed up for a college prep track! What worries me are the
limited aspirations of many lower level ESL students who may have college
potential. 

 

I understand now why you don't have the resources to operate a more
comprehensive program. I've heard an increasing number of stories about
areas were the LEA runs the federal/state  adult education ESL grant program
and has asked the local college to take it over (because the LEA has
concluded it's an "adult" program). Have there been any rumblings of that in
your area?

 

Best of luck in your good work.

 

Forrest    

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 9:42 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List; The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1174] Re: (no subject)

 

I believe we do have a hard time getting enough students fed into our
program and with the appropriate background to succeed if they do come to
us. It is a real problem. There are some workplace ESL programs which are
run through our Corporate and Continuing Education Office, but those
students rarely, if ever, come to us. And they serve the employees of
specific companies as opposed to the community at large. 

 

Our ESL program is within an academic department in the college
(Communication and Languages) and so is run like every other. ESL students
pay the same tuition and fees as all other students at the college. We do
not receive special government funding beyond what the state and counties
provide for the college as a whole as a part of our yearly budget.

 

Finances are probably a big reason why we are getting fewer students at the
low levels. Community programs are free or low cost; although in the scheme
of higher education, the community college is less expensive, it may still
be out of reach of many students. 

 

In terms of having a more comprehensive program, we are limited by a small
staff, and the unlikelihood of being able to expand given college budgeting
restraints. In addition, our three full-time faculty members (including
myself) not only teach 15 credit hours per semester but also do the
administrative work required. We do advising, scheduling, and the many other
tasks associate with keeping the program afloat. The only "official"
administrative support for the program is through the 3 hours of overload I
receive to serve as Adjunct Coordinator. 

 

The belief that they can attend college does not seem to be a problem with
our population although I can certainly see that it could be. A growing
problem for us (and many around the country) is the disconnect between high
schools and colleges in terms of student preparation. Either the high
schools do not think the students are college-bound and so don't bother to
give them a college-prep course of study, or there is simply a growing gap
between the expectations of each. Additionally, students seem to think that
a high school diploma equates to college readiness.

 

We do our best to advise students, but we don't always have enough time -
and as professors primarily - may not know ourselves what all of the options
for students are. 

 

Kevin 

 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 10:38 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1172] Re: (no subject)

Dear Kevin,

 

Many thanks for providing all of us with a profile of your program. Seeing
the variety of college program goals and designs is extremely valuable in
stimulating ideas about how to do a better job in delivering ESL.

 

Personally, I think that it is perfectly valid for colleges to elect to
offer solely pre-academic ESL at the non-credit level. But it does prompt
the concern about whether other programs in the college's service area are
providing non-academic ESL to large enough numbers of students and at a high
enough quality to "feed" the college program - as well as how well their
efforts articulate with yours. I wonder whether this troubles you, and if so
whether/how you have addressed the issue.  Frankly, I think one reason why
many colleges offer comprehensive ESL programs is that they would prefer to
"make" pre-academic students themselves, rather than rely on others to do
it. Another reason, of course, if that they may not be eligible for
federal/state grant money unless they offer comprehensive programs. Does
your college receive these funds to support its pre-academic program? If
not, how is it supported financially?

 

I heartily agree that helping students set realistic goals and understand
their options is essential. I believe, however, that encouraging students to
expand their goals as they succeed is also essential. For example, many
immigrants come from countries where going to college is the privilege of
very few, and thus may consider that an unrealistic goal  unless they are
encouraged to take the steps necessary (often one step at a time). The
problem seems to be that it is hard for most programs to find the resources
to provide very much guidance of any of these kinds to most students. I
wonder if anyone has any solutions to THAT issue. 

 

In any event, many thanks for fleshing out an interesting model.  

 

Forrest     

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:19 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1148] (no subject)

 

Hi All,

 

I have been reading most of the discussion comments and wanted to address a
few issues. First, however, I'll give a summary of our program. 

 

I teach ESL at Raritan Valley Community College in New Jersey. Our program
serves approximately 350 students from diverse language backgrounds. Our
program offers two pre-academic levels of all skills ESL instruction (a six
hour per week non-credit class). In addition, we have 5 levels of academic
ESL preparation divided into three courses - Reading/Writing, Grammar, and
Speaking/Listening). Our highest level Reading/Writing course gives
successful students 6 elective credits that count towards RVCC graduation,
but those credits do not transfer. Our semesters are 15 weeks. If a student
misses 20% of any class, the instructor may withdraw that student (they are
not, however, obliged to withdraw these students). At the moment, the late
enrollment policy is that students may register for a course prior to the
second week of class but not thereafter. Research, of course, indicates that
students who begin a class late have a much higher rate of failure than
those who begin on time
 . 

 

In our program, we have three full-time faculty and approximately 16-18
adjuncts. 

 

We have focused our program on academic prep ESL because we are a small
program with limited resources, and we have a very difficult time finding
qualified adjuncts. Also, a significant majority of our students have
signalled their intention to obtain a college degree. Moreover, there are
community programs that offer basic English skills although there is often a
long waiting list to obtain the services. In other issues, we use the
Accuplacer ESL test for placement and have in-house standardized tests at
the end of each level of grammar and reading/writing

 

Within our classes, highly educated non-native speakers usually progress
much more quickly. One of the most challenging groups is students who
graduated from local high schools but still have inadequate English skills -
and not infrequently, weak academic skills in general. One of the strategies
that I would personally wish for is real communication between K-12 and
community colleges so that students get the language skills they need before
they enter college. I understand that there is great pressure to move
students out of ESL in many school districts, but ultimately, it does a huge
disservice both financially and in terms of motivation to students whose
skills remain more BICS than CALP. 

 

I agree with those who suggest that first language literacy issues should be
addressed before students enter ESL. However, it becomes complicated to find
funding and support for such efforts. In my experience, students with low
level literacy skills become frustrated and are not ultimately successful -
probably by any definition. I am uncomfortable with the idea that they are
spending hard-earned money when the chances for success in ESL are minimal.
We advise students that the program is academically-oriented; often they
have little understanding of what that means. 

 

I do not agree with the suggestion that the bar be lowered so that students
with low-intermediate skills be allowed in credit classes (at least at my
college). Historically, other faculty have little experience handling
language issues and are very unhappy when students cannot read, write and
converse at an appropriate level of English. They end up feeling helpless.
Students may pass classes; however, I suspect that instructors do not want
to deal with the challenges and so turn a blind eye and let them through.
Recently, there has been a problem in the nursing department with non-native
English speaking students not passing board exams because they enter the
college from other programs and circumvent ESL with us. They have trouble
reading and answering questions on the exam. This is a significant problem
because nursing programs are judged in terms of the success of their
students on these standardized exams. 

 

I think the measure of success should be based on a realistic assessment of
student goals combined with a real-life discussion of the possibilities and
limitations. Ideally, students would have incremental goals so that success
could build. If the goals for students with low literacy levels are not
carefully discussed and planned, then they will likely encounter more
failure than success because their expectaions will be unrealistic. The more
we have the opportunity to talk to students, the more likely it is that they
can develop short-term goals that are within their reach. Unfortunately, we
have no control over the myriad of complications that accrue in their every
day lives. 

 

Apologies for the length.

 

Kevin Hinkle, Ph.D.

Assistant Professor of ESL/Adjunct Coordinator

-------------------------------

National Institute for Literacy

Assessment mailing list

Assessment at nifl.gov

To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

 

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

Professor and Director

Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program

Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education

University of Maryland Baltimore County

1000 Hilltop Circle

Baltimore, MD 21250

tel:  410-455-2313

fax: 410-455-8947

eml: crandall at umbc.edu

 

 





 

-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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Email delivered to forrest at crosslink.net



From forrest at crosslink.net  Fri Feb  8 22:35:19 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 22:35:19 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1227] Re: Multiple Intelligences and
	Differentiated	Instruction--registration opens
In-Reply-To: <948347.18120.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <948347.18120.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001f01c86acc$d0a4e800$71eeb800$@net>

Bonnie,

 

Good for you. You?ve obviously had (and are having) a remarkable career.
This can only enhance it.

 

Forrest

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Bonnie Odiorne
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 7:33 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1219] Re: Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
Instruction--registration opens

 

I am going to try the course; I just registered. As I've been following the
discussion with interest, I've been very intrigued by the issue of multiple
ihntelligences as they impact college transition, differentiated classrooms
(from the point of view of skills levels as well as intrinsic motivation)
and the increasing number of "developmental" students, regardless of their
educational backgrounds. If colleges and universities could get out of the
"developmental" model to a curriculum revision model that enhances
instructional changes (faculty are now talking about Bloom's taxonomy as a
starting point for curriculum revision), including differentiated
instruction... I do this wearing several hats: while I was in adult
education previously, in various ABE/ESOL programs, including tutor training
(so the comments about CBOs and standards for volunteers is a very difficult
topic), family, workplace, employability with technological enhancement
literacy programs ccombining ABE and ESOL students, I am now teaching French
(?!; it used to be ESOL but the university did away with its formalized
program) developmental English composition, freshman college success
seminars, working with a summer "bridge" program for at risk students, and I
am also director of the university writing center. Writing across the
curriculum, writing to learn, and multiple intelligences seemed to me to be
answers to the differentiated classroom. I also identify with funding: my
jobs are both part-time... and assesment (I work with the learning center to
administer Accuplacer). We also have a lot of developmental problems with
online students so I do writing center advising electronically....
Coincidentally, I'd been invited to facilitate an Oakland Unified Schools
District ESOL teachers' retreat with a mindfulness activity (I chose walking
the labyrinth) in relation to multiple intelligences, but I couldn't get the
life scan fingerprinting done in time, alas. I may have some role in this
program but I'm not quite sure what. In any event, when things come together
like this, I tend to listen up,  so thought I needed to take advantage of
the opportunity to take the course. 

Cheers, all you dedicated practitioners out there. 

Bonnie Odiorne, Ph.D. Post University Waterbury CT

----- Original Message ----
From: Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2008 1:38:48 PM
Subject: [Assessment 1194] Re: Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
Instruction--registration opens

Very interesting. Anyone going to try it?

 

Forrest

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Kaye Beall
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:41 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1181] Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
Instruction--registration opens

 

World Education is pleased to offer Multiple Intelligences and
Differentiated Instruction as an online training. 

 

The course syllabus and registration details are attached. Contact Kaye
Beall at kaye_beall at worlded.org with questions.

************************

 

Adult Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated Instruction

 

Course Dates: March 12?May 13, 2008; Online chats during Lessons 3, 4, and 5

 

Course Description

Research conducted by the National Center for the Study of Adult Learning
and Literacy shows that instructional practices inspired by Multiple
Intelligences (MI) theory resulted in high levels of authentic instruction
and student engagement.

Integrate your understanding of Multiple Intelligences (MI) theory with the
power of differentiated instruction in this facilitated, eight-session
course. You?ll learn how to apply MI theory and differentiate instruction
for all levels of adult basic education and English for speakers of other
languages. The facilitator will guide you as you develop your own MI-based
lessons.

 

Objectives

Upon completion of this course you will be able to:

*Apply the theory of multiple intelligences (MI) to design learning
activities that match your learning objectives

*Use varying methods of differentiated instruction (DI) that address the
different skills and interests of your learners

*Apply knowledge of your own MI profile to your classroom teaching

*Produce and reflect on a lesson or unit using both MI and DI

 

Required Text:

Viens, Julie and Silja Kallenbach. Multiple Intelligences and Adult
Literacy: A Sourcebook for Practitioners. (New York: Teachers College Press,
2004. Copies of the required textbook can be obtained from the publisher,
Teachers College Press (TCP), the publisher at
http://store.tcpress.com/0807743461.shtml. The cost is $27.95 per copy.

 

Course Format and Schedule: facilitated, online

During this eight-week course, you will engage in self-paced activities and
readings, as well as asynchronous discussions with the facilitators and
course participants. Three synchronous chats will be scheduled during
Lessons 3, 4, and 5.

 

Syllabus: See attached PDF?AMI Course Details.

 

Course Facilitator: Wendy Qui?ones

 

Estimated Completion Time: 40 hours

 

Registration: Complete and return the attached registration form-[PDF].
Payment must be received prior to enrollment. Registration is limited to 20
participants.

 

Cancellation policy: World Education reserves the right to cancel the course
if the minimum number of registrants is not met by March 4, 2008.

 

Kaye Beall

Project Director

World Education

6760 West Street

Linn Grove, IN 46711

765-717-3942

kaye_beall at worlded.org

www.worlded.org <http://www.worlded.org/> 

 



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From MMaralit at NIFL.gov  Fri Feb  8 16:12:49 2008
From: MMaralit at NIFL.gov (Maralit, Mary Jo)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 16:12:49 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1228] LINCS Regional Resource Centers Sponsor Health
	Literacy Summits
Message-ID: <4062487BDB6029428A763CAEF4E1FE5B180C53D3@wdcrobe2m03.ed.gov>

 

 

LINCS Regional Resource Centers Sponsor Three Regional Health Literacy
Summits 

 

The National Institute for Literacy through its LINCS Regional Resource
Centers is convening adult literacy and health professionals in three
locations in February and March to share information about the research on
health literacy and resources for implementing health literacy programming.

 

Health literacy is often defined as the ability to read, understand, and act
upon health-related information. Improving health literacy may improve the
health status and quality of life of America's adults, especially among
adults with marginal literacy skills. The National Assessment of Adult
Literacy (NAAL) reported the extent of low health literacy in The Health
Literacy of America's Adults: Results from the 2003 National Assessment of
Adult Literacy. About 22 percent of adults only had Basic health literacy
and 14 percent had Below Basic health literacy.

 

The LINCS health summits will share information on the state of health
literacy in the nation and address how partnerships among adult literacy
providers and health literacy providers can help in eliminating literacy
barriers in accessing quality health care. 

 

For contact information and registration, please go to: 
http://www.nifl.gov/nifl/news_events/02-08-08.html 

 

Region 3 will meet February 28, 2008 in San Francisco, CA. This summit is
sponsored by Literacyworks in partnership with San Francisco State
University College of Humanities, Center for Immigrant and Refugee Community
Literacy Education (CIRCLE); Community Engagement Program, University of
California San Francisco (UCSF); and Center for Vulnerable Populations,
UCFS/San Francisco General Hospital. Presenters include Dr. Dean
Schillinger, MD, University of California San Francisco Associate Professor
of Medicine, and various literacy providers and adult students.  



Region 2 will meet March 5, 2008 in Atlanta, GA. This summit is sponsored by
the Center for Literacy Studies, University of Tennessee, in partnership
with the Center for the Study of Adult Literacy, Georgia State University;
Office of Adult Literacy, Georgia Department of Technical and Adult
Education; and Literacy Action, Inc. (Atlanta). Presenters include Cynthia
Baur (US/DHHS) and Dr. Yolanda Partida, UCSF Fresno. 



Region 1 will meet March 25-26, 2008 in Indianapolis, IN. This summit is
sponsored by World Education and Kent State University/Ohio Literacy
Resource Center in partnership with Indiana Department of Education/Division
of Adult Education. Among the presenters are Paul D. Smith, MD, University
of Wisconsin (Health literacy: A clinician's point of view) and Andrew
Pleasant, Ph.D., Rutgers University (Advancing health literacy: Building
bridges). The summit will also highlight health literacy initiatives in
Wisconsin, New York, Iowa and Rhode Island. 



Jo Maralit

National Institute for Literacy

mmaralit at nifl.gov

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From gburnett at sanford.org  Sat Feb  9 08:29:17 2008
From: gburnett at sanford.org (Gail Burnett)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 08:29:17 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1229]  {Dangerous Content?} RE: Assessment Digest,
	Vol 29, Issue 70
References: <mailman.2859.1202516755.1030.assessment@nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <D66AE1265AC9B14B9EDD2D3EDA8066F5013EA3A5@shsmail.sanford.org>

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Hi,

I don't know if it's too late to add another comment. I am one of those people you describe: a part-time ESL teacher with a degree in another field. Until this winter I'd never taken an education course in my life. I came in with good knowledge of English (former editor and writer) and training as an ESL literacy tutor. In our school district, adult ed teachers can be paid for workshops and in-service training, and our program has offered a lot of both. But I've been told that I haven't absorbed enough educational theory and good practices through these offerings and have decided I really need some formal education. So I'm starting to take graduate classes but it's entirely at my expense. This is a fairly high price for a part-time teacher with no benefits to pay. It rankles me a bit when I see the full-time teachers in our district taking graduate classes at district expense so they can further their skills and climb up a pay ladder that starts 15 rungs above my head. Even if I wanted to take Education 101, I would be paying for it myself. You could argue that these other folks took basic classes at their expense before they were hired but most of them didn't come to their teaching jobs with a wealth of real-life experience and knowledge. In other words, I paid for my BA years ago as did they; I contributed the wisdom and knowledge gained from working with the language for 25 years, and now I'm paying for further education.

This is a long way of saying: We career change teachers can offer a lot but we could use a little help, too. Like basic ESL/educational theory classes, offered close to home and at shared expense. I would sign up in a second.


-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of assessment-request at nifl.gov
Sent: Fri 2/8/2008 7:25 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: Assessment Digest, Vol 29, Issue 70
 
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Today's Topics:

   1. [Assessment 1218] Re: (no subject) (valerie.woodard)
   2. [Assessment 1217] Re: Observation checklist (Jodi Crandall)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:29:30 -0600
From: "valerie.woodard" <valerie.woodard at hccs.edu>
Subject: [Assessment 1218] Re: (no subject)
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID:
	<4B5EE7DED9296B4A94B20684F5289B29E04790 at ADMINMAIL2.ad.hccs.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

I would love to hear from the group about "professional development" challenges you face. How do we in-part learning theory to part-time staff with degrees but no educational back ground.  How do we tap into the importance of training and have staff identify with continuing professional development. It seems to me that it would be of benefit to look at the experience of the Adult Education instructors and requirement from the federal grant but local authority can make up a large part of the requirement they have adopted which does not put professional development up front?  Resources are needed to help instructors stay sharp for the students. 

 

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From mjjerdems at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  9 08:39:33 2008
From: mjjerdems at yahoo.com (Mary Jane Jerde)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 05:39:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Assessment 1230] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <04B634F4-14CD-45CC-ADA3-EBDE2B8C2C34@umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <677084.22455.qm@web54001.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Practically, because I am able to. We have the trained staff. It is good for them to all use the skills. 

Theoretically, because one test is not sufficient assessment. Also, CASAS is a listening test. BEST is a speaking test. 

Financially, because I never know which test will produce the better score for reporting. 

Mary Jane

Jodi Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu> wrote: Mary Jane,

Why are you using two oral post-tests?


Jodi
On Feb 8, 2008, at 3:43 PM, Mary Jane Jerde wrote:

Hi,

The focus of class is speaking, so I don't give the students any scale score reading or writing tests. Giving two oral post-tests takes enough time. 

For class I do test the various skills. 

Mary Jane

Jodi Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu> wrote: Mary Jane,

Thanks for sharing your experiences.


Do you also use a reading and/or writing test at any of the adult ESOL levels?


Jodi
On Feb 7, 2008, at 7:18 PM, Mary Jane Jerde wrote:

As an ESL instructor who has used BEST Plus for pre-test and post-test scoring in grant funded classes, I have found the test to be an accurate gauge of student placement and growth in English.

One advantage is that I have been able to test new students myself and have post-testing done by various other ABE or ESL instructors. They were all trained by BEST Plus staff. Before a test session the examiner and I go through a review. I have sat with the examiners for initial post-test sessions to have them gain confidence in their abilities. But I had faith that a "subjective" test could be accurate because I had used BEST for seven years in a refugee program and knew it's value for placement. 

The program does a fine job of adjusting level of difficulty based on feedback from responses. 

Is one test ever enough? No. But I have enjoyed the benefit of being able to use both CASAS and BEST Plus in smaller community programs. 

Mary Jane Jerde
ESL Instructor
Howard Community College



"Cohen, Jonathan" <Jonathan.Cohen at dol.state.nj.us> wrote:             Good reply.
  Jon
   
  Jonathan Cohen
  Workforce Readiness & Literacy
  NJ Dept. of Labor & Workforce Development 
   
      
---------------------------------
  
  From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Michelle Ueland
 Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 4:10 PM
 To: The Assessment Discussion List
 Subject: [Assessment 1158] Re: Observation checklist
  
   
   
  Dear Assessment Listserv Members,
  It is with great interest that we have been following this discussion regarding one of our assessments, BEST Plus, and its use for oral proficiency meaurement on initial placement and learner progress. 
  As other assessments have been brought into the discussion, we would like to provide the following clarification, taken verbatim from the DLIELC Website: http://www.dlielc.org/testing/ALCPT.html : "DLIELC conducts English language proficiency testing using the Oral Proficiency Interview (OPI), a face-to-face or telephonic interview, and the English Comprehension Level (ECL) test, a multiple choice test of listening and reading comprehension. (The ECL test is provided to authorized US Government users only.) DLIELC also makes available the American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT) for English language programs conducted outside of DLIELC. Achievement testing of American Language Course (ALC) objectives is conducted using book quizzes and performance tests, which can be obtained with the course materials." 
  According to the April 2007 edition of the Handbook for the American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT): "The most important consideration under the general topic of test security is test compromise. One of the easiest ways to compromise any test is through its inappropriate use." Given the definitions above, there are many reasons to question the appropriateness of using any of the above mentioned tests with the adult ESL population in the U.S.
  Currently, BEST Plus is the only assessment developed specifically for use with adult English language learners in educational programs, which simultaneously measures adults' listening and speaking skills. As the BEST Plus Level Gain study shows ( http://www.cal.org/resources/digest/levelgain.html ), more hours equals more gains, whether that be during one academic year (intensity of instruction) or over an adult's lifetime (persistence as a learner). Furthermore, this study also shows that not only is BEST Plus appropriate for initial placement, but it is also a good measure of student progress. In many ways, BEST Plus brings the knowledge and design of other oral proficiency instruments to the field of adult ESL in a highly accessible manner. Test administrations are relatively inexpensive when compared to the high cost of other oral proficiency assessments, the results accurate and immediate, and for the first time, instructors are able to confirm many of their "gut
 instinct" and "handshake" evaluations based on their expertise and familiarity with the adult ESL population in a standardized manner that is scored by a common rubric.
  In regard to test administrator training, another advantage to BEST Plus is that ESL instructors are able to engage in professional development in the area of proficiency assessment. Across the country, responses to BEST Plus training are overwhelmingly positive. Our core of trainers does fantastic work to educate practitioners about the differences between being a good teacher and being a good standardized test administrator, in addition to training test administrators to administer and score BEST Plus. Furthermore, there are several opportunities for previously trained test administrators to recalibrate their scoring accuracy through the use of the Scoring Refresher Toolkit within their local programs and states. In this way, programs can confirm their inter-rater reliability, as CAL has also done during the development and design of BEST Plus. We would encourage anyone interested in finding out more about the design of BEST Plus and its high rate of inter-rater
 reliability to read the BEST Plus Technical Manual.
  Finally, we hope that programs using BEST Plus continue to see the benefits of providing adults ESL learners with data regarding their oral proficiency level and progress. Particularly adults with many commitments need this type of information offered at their convenience locally by their service providers. By knowing their levels, program directors and instructors can to continue to make instructional and programatic decisions based on learner needs and to assist the learners in their own educational goal setting.
  Michelle M. Ueland
  Adult ESL Assessments
  Center for Applied Linguistics
     
    
---------------------------------
  
  From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
 Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:27 PM
 To: The Assessment Discussion List
 Subject: [Assessment 1157] Re: Observation checklist
  Ted and all, 
     
  
    I imagine others would like to have access to the ALCPT information as well.
  
     
  
    I have also given the OPI, not as a certified interviewer but with a lot of training in its use.  I use it  as part of information gathering in reviewing programs overseas, to see what various levels of instruction correspond to in proficiency terms. I haven't used it with adult ESL population.  Like Mary Margaret, I have found that it takes about the same amount of time.  
  
     
  
    Do others have the same concerns about the BEST Plus?
  
     
  
    Jodi
  
     
  
    On Feb 7, 2008, at 12:58 PM, Ted Klein wrote:
  
          Jodi,
  
     
  
    My wife, Mary Margaret, was a certified OPI interviewer at DLI. She says that the average interview was 20 minutes. This depends on the interviewee's level. Two people interview. The higher the level, the longer the test. It's a really good test. The bad news is that there is/was something like a 40% failure rate for certification of interviewer among instructors and staff. Some of these people were pretty sharp, but doing it is an art and a science. There is no question the OPI is the state-of-the-art. Even experienced interviewers get frequent tune-ups. I believe that the OPI scoring system with the + indicating 60% of the next higher level COULD be simplified and adapted to adult education. However, if progress has to be shown as often as now, real proficiency doesn't change that fast and could cost programs $ when they submit their paperwork.  IF it were done after maybe 120 class hours, there may be significant changes.
  
     
  
    Although I got the training, I bribe other people to do the BEST Plus on my students, including Mary Margaret! I think that it's fine for placement, but really doesn't work for "progress" for a number of reasons. Even when people are trained to use it properly, there is enormous difference, even in how the interviewers expresses themselves orally and make scores. If we have to continue using the BEST tests, another thing that I would like to see is small teams of really good and consistent interviewers that do the tests on all of the students. A weak measurement system is the Achilles Heel in Adult Education.
  
     
  
    I would prefer the use of the American Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT). If you will give me an e-mail address that is convenient, I will send you more information on it from my old workshops. It's cheaper, quicker, and quite accurate. I totally agree with you that teacher wisdom is also a good way to determine where and when the student should move on. Unfortunately, many managers don't trust the peasants! There are also several good ways to place people that don't involve their ability to read the ALCPT.
  
     
  
    I put out an Adult Education/ESL Newsletter once in a while. I recently did an article on the OPI, which may answer more of the questions. Here it is:
  
     
  
     
  
    Adult Education/ESL News Letter; the Federal Oral Proficiency Interview   Jan. 8, 2008    Ted Klein
  
     
  
      For many years the Foreign Service Institute (FSI) of the United States conducted interviews of foreign language proficiency to measure the understanding and production of languages acquired by their staff. This test was also used by some other federal agencies and was adapted by some civilian language programs as a measure of their graduates. This test expressed performance using scores ranging from zero to five. For decades it was the best game in town. The problem is that both the interview techniques and scoring systems in the FSI exam were not as objective as needed for some persons, whose jobs required very specific scores that would be important to accomplishment of their missions.
  
     
  
    Language proficiency testing needs have always depended on the terminal objectives of the students. In most cases, a well-designed comprehension test is adequate and may be used for language class placement, graduation criteria, determination of readiness for certain jobs, training, or education, etc. During my twenty years with the   Defense Language Institute  English Language  Center, all students were tested with the English Comprehension Level (ECL) test, which was developed as an overall measure of listening and reading skills. This test was developed and maintained by individuals whose primary expertise was in valid measurement procedures assisted by a team of persons who developed multiple choice test items that were based more on their language expertise than math. Scores were in a sense arbitrary and didn't represent a "percentage" of anything. However the use of an ECL test to determine readiness for international military personnel from many countries to
 participate in U.S.military training was considered a very reliable source of measuring English-language readiness. The test measured listening and reading skills and was "loaded" with numerous structural, vocabulary and phonological factors. It was multiple choice and could be administered in an hour to a large group of students. Students went on from DLIELC for training as pilots, staff college attendees, electronics specialists, medical personnel, etc. and enjoyed a very low failure rate due to language factors. Often, the comprehension scores tended to reflect competence in spoken English, because most of these students had acquired English in a balanced environment of listening, speaking, reading and writing skills. The DLIELC program itself was fairly uniform in which all American Language Course materials were systematically provided for specific lengths of time to teaching staff trained to use specific methodologies. DLIELC students normally start their training in
 their home countries and later go to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio to finish general English when their ECL scores meet predetermined criteria to continue to continue on to study specialized terminology.
  
     
  
    In the 1980's a gentleman from the Central Intelligence Agency was tasked with the production of a more objective oral language measurement system than the FSI exam, with truly meaningful scores and criteria. He accomplished that mission and the new Oral Proficiency Interview (OPI) examination was designed. That's the good news! The bad news is that it is both an art and a science to administer. A copy of the criteria and rating factors is below. It can be found at the DLIELC website at http://www.dlielc.org/testing/opi_profile.html  This OPI took care of the majority of the problems with the older FSI exam, including a very tight and variable interview system in which persons were taken to their highest level of oral communication. Both listening and speaking skills receive a score. The chart below reflects whole number judgments with a performance-based description of what the person being tested can do with the language. The problem is that even after two weeks of
 training persons to administer the test, there is a rather high failure rate among tester candidates. At one time potential interviewer failures rates were as high as 40%. Tests are administered by pairs of persons who have to agree on a score. I have seen persons with graduate degrees in linguistics fail to become certified interviewers and persons with much less technical expertise succeed and become very competent certified interviewers. The OPI is now used in numerous programs throughout the military, intelligence and diplomatic communities. It is NOT used in place of other valid testing instruments. It is reserved as a supplement for persons in which a known language production level is required. This may include persons who will be air traffic controllers or pilots in which verbal communication skills can be critical.
  
     
  
    The ROTC programs at the University of Puerto Rico require OPI scores for their cadets who become officers in the U.S. military establishment. They also have required ECL scores, and candidates must also be verbally competent in spoken English to get their commissions and succeed in adequate communication for their jobs in the military. The required score to enroll in the ROTC program is an ECL of 75 and an OPI score of 2/1+. One year later the required ECL score is 80 with a 2/2 OPI. To be commissioned in the  U.S. Military the required ECL is 90 and the required OPI is 2+/2. The first number (2+) reflects listening comprehension and the second number reflects speaking ability. When we include the + (plus) designation, this means that the candidate performs at the next higher level at least 60% of the time. Therefore, if we go from 0 (no competence) to five (educated native speaker competence) there are eleven possible levels including the pluses. The difficult part
 for most interviewers is reaching the candidates' real levels, measuring objectively, and having each interview so different from the last one that the possibility of compromise through information sharing is very unlikely. An ECL score of 90 is equivalent to a TOEFL score of 550, which is adequate for an international student to get into many American universities. The American Language Course Proficiency Test (ALCPT) is made from expired ECL tests and can be made available to civilian institutions.
  
     
  
    Why am I telling you about all of this? I was in management work at DLIELC when the OPI system was introduced and never had reason to become a certified interviewer. However, what I find exciting is that the OPI Rating Factor Grid below describes the natural sequence in which our ESL students acquire English. It is a recapitulation of the entire never-ending process of getting a new language. I'm guessing that average competent foreign language majors in a good university would graduate with a 3/3 OPI score in their target languages. The numbers in the OPI can only hint at how long and complicated a process we have to go through to really be truly functional in a second language. For travelling or living in another country for a while, 2/1+ is a very reasonable goal. The chart should give ESL instructors strong insight into both teaching objectives and what their students are going through.  
  
     
  
    There is a short general article on my website about language testing at
  
     http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/lang_tests.html  
  
     
  
     
  
    Ted
  
   
           Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
   Independent Consultant in Language
          and Intercultural Training
               14456 Agarita Road
           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
              Phone:512-266-1801
               taklein at austin.rr.com        
             www.tedklein-ESL.com     
              
  
   
   
   
   
    OPI  RATING  FACTOR  GRID
  
        
      Interactive Comprehension
      Structural Control  Texts Produced      Lexical Control
      Delivery
      Sociolinguistic Competence
      Global Tasks and Functions
      0+
         The individual   understands a number of short, memorized utterances in areas of immediate   needs; frequent, long pauses and repeated requests for repetition.  
   
         No control. Can only   use memorized structures. 
   
      Individual   words and phrases.
   
         Memorized words and   phrases related to immediate survival needs.
   
         Even in memorized   speech, stress, intonation, tone usually quite faulty.
   
         Severely limited.    Any knowledge of cultural appropriateness has a nonlinguistic source
   
         Can make statements   and ask questions using memorized material.
   
      1
         A native speaker   must often use slowed speech, repetition, paraphrase, or a combination of   these to be understood by this individual.  Misunderstandings are frequent,   but the individual is able to ask for help and to verify comprehension of   native speech in face-to-face interaction. 
   
         Structural accuracy   is random or severely limited.  Almost every utterance has errors in basic   structures.  Time concepts are vague.  Can formulate some questions.  
   
      Discrete sentences.
   
         Very limited.    Covers courtesy expressions, introductions, identification, personal and   accommodation needs, daily routine.
   
         Often speaks with   great difficulty. Pronunciation, stress, intonation generally poor.
   
         Uses greetings and   courtesy expressions.  Can interact with native speakers used to dealing with   non-natives.
   
         Can create   sentences; begin, maintain, and close short conversations by asking and   answering simple questions; satisfy simple daily needs.
   
      2
         The individual can get the gist of most   everyday conversations, but has some difficulty understanding native speakers   in situations that require a specialized or sophisticated knowledge.  (May   require a native speaker to adjust to his/her limitations in some way).  
   
         Discourse is   minimally cohesive.  Grammatical structures are usually not very elaborate   and not thoroughly controlled; errors are frequent.  Simple structure and   basic grammatical relations are typically controlled.  
   
      Full   paragraphs.
   
         Sufficient to   discuss high frequency concrete topics such as work, family, personal   background and interests, travel, current events.  Imprecise for less common   topics.
   
         Speaks with   confidence but not facility.  Can usually be understood by those not used to   dealing with non-natives.
   
         Satisfies routine   social demands and limited work requirements.  Can interact with native   speakers not used to dealing with non-natives; native speakers may have to   adjust to limitations.
   
         Can describe people,   places, and things; narrate current, past, and future activities in full   paragraphs; state facts; give instructions or directions; ask and answer   questions in the work place; deal with non-routine daily situations.
   
      3
         In face-to-face   conversation with natives speaking the standard dialect at a normal rate of   speech, comprehension is quite complete.  Although cultural references,   proverbs, and the implications of nuances and idiom may not be fully   understood, the individual can easily repair the conversation.  
   
         Effectively combines   structure and vocabulary to convey meaning. Discourse is cohesive.  Use of   structural devices is flexible and elaborate.  Errors occur in low frequency   and highly complex structures; but structural inaccuracy rarely causes   misunderstanding.  
   
      Extended discourse.
   
         Broad enough for   effective formal and informal conversations on practical, social, and   professional topics.  Can convey abstract concepts.
   
         Speaks readily and   fills pauses suitably.  Pronunciation may be obviously foreign. Flaws in   stress, intonation, pitch rarely disturb the native speaker.
   
         Uses cultural   references.  When errors are made, can easily repair the conversation.
   
         Can converse   extensively in formal and informal situations; discuss abstract topics;   support opinions; hypothesize; deal with unfamiliar topics and situations;   clarify points.  
   
      4
         Can understand   native speakers of the standard and other major dialects in  essentially any   face-to-face interaction.  Can understand the details and ramifications of   concepts that are culturally or conceptually different from his/her own.    Understands shifts of both subject matter and tone.  
   
         Organizes discourse   well, using appropriate rhetorical devices and high level discourse structures.   
   
      Speeches,   lectures, debates, 
   
      conference   discussions.
   
         Precise for   representational purposes within personal and professional experience.  Can   elaborate concepts freely; choose appropriate words to convey nuances of   meaning.
   
         Speaks effortlessly   and smoothly, but would seldom be perceived as a native speaker.
   
         Uses and   understands details and ramifications of target cultural references. Can set   and shift the tone of exchanges with a variety of native speakers.
   
         Can tailor language   to fit the audience; counsel; persuade; represent an official point of view;   negotiate; advocate a position at length; interpret informally.
   
      5
         (No gaps in   comprehension, including all details and nuances.)
   
         Functionally   equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.  
   
      All texts controlled   by a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.
   
         Breadth of   vocabulary and idiom equivalent to that of a highly articulate, well-educated   native speaker.
   
         Functionally equivalent   to a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker of a standard dialect.
   
         Speech reflects the   cultural standards of country where language is natively spoken.
   
         Functionally   equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated native speaker.
   
       DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03 (Reverse)
  
       OPI    PERFORMANCE  PROFILE         RATERS
   
         DATE
   
         Check One:
   
         C
   
         S
   
       
         ENTRY
   
         Mid
   
      Exit       
       
         SCN/TEL OPI CODE
   
         RANK/NAME
   
         CY
   
         GRAD DATE
   
         SET CODE
   
         TEACHER/ROOM NO.
   
         VERIFICATION
   
      Interactive Comprehension      Structural   Control / Texts Produced      Lexical Control
       
       
       
      Delivery
      Sociolinguistic Competence
      Global Tasks and Functions
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
           DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03
  
   
   
   
                                                    
  
       ----- Original Message ----- 
  
  
      From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
  
    To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
  
    Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:45 AM
  
    Subject: [Assessment 1149] Re: Observation checklist
  
  
     
  
  Ted,
 
 Did you use an oral proficiency interview at the Defense Language
 Institute?  If so, how log did it take to administer to each student?  I
 think time is a real barrier to most adult ESL/ESOL programs.  Thus, they
 use tests that can be administered to students as a group and easily
 evaluated.
 
 For some college programs for international students, a whole range of
 tests are used for placement, including a writing sample, a reading test,
 and an oral interview.  Clearly that's more possible with smaller numbers
 of students who are also paying for the classes.
 
 What do you think is needed in the way of tests?  In Passing the Torch,
 Forrest and I point to assessment as a major issue facing all the colleges
 we studied.  We recommend the development of a test of all four skills
 that, if possible, could be administered and scored in a reasonable amount
 of time.
 
 Have you tried the BEST Plus test?  What has been your experience with
 that test?
 
 I agree that for placement at literacy levels, a simple test developed by
 a program might be sufficient.
 
 I also think that for progress through the levels, student achievement in
 the previous class, as judged by the instructor ("professional wisdom"),
 is still the best determiner of whether a student is ready to go to the
 next level.
 
 Jodi
 
 
 > Jodi,
 >
 > Same here! As long as the BEST Test is used to show gains, I'm afraid that
 > there isn't much chance that REAL gains could be charted and compared. It
 > is used too often to measure progress and is not as good for that purpose
 > as one would hope. Really valid proficiency tests are the only way to
 > prove the point. Achievement tests don't tell much in terms of overall
 > progress. I would also guess that it would take a minimum of 120 hours of
 > solid training to have a measureable level with any test that one could
 > play numbers with. Other factors including attendance, etc. would have to
 > be factored in. Adults have families and jobs in the way of total
 > dedication to attendance. Also, one would have to have a test in which
 > human judgment would play a small role. The BEST is fine for its original
 > purpose, which was to place persons with others at their same levels of
 > communication. Good measurement is the only way to prove anything. I often
 > rely on plain old gut instincts to figure how things are really going. I
 > know that's not very scientific.
 >
 > Cheers,  Ted
 > www.tedklein-ESL.com
 >
 >
 > ----- Original Message -----
 > From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
 > To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
 > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:05 PM
 > Subject: [Assessment 1138] Re: Observation checklist
 >
 >
 > Hi, Ted.  Glad to make contact again.
 >
 > I definitely agree that smaller classes are more likely to bring learner
 > gains, especially in language, since students will have more opportunity
 > to speak when there are fewer students.  I didn't know about the DLI
 > policy, but it is a good one.  The problem with adult ESL classes, I fear,
 > is that there is such limited money available that programs would find it
 > difficult to keep class size to these numbers.
 >
 > Has anyone tried to reduce class size and chart the learning gains?  If
 > so, please share with us all.  It might be that this would be a good
 > investment.  If students in smaller classes make faster gains, then there
 > would be more spaces available as these students transitioned to other
 > classes or the workforce.
 >
 > Jodi
 >
 > Hi Jodi,
 >>
 >> Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times in the
 >> past,
 >> I think at least once when you visited the Defense Language Institute
 >> English Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I
 >> mention
 >> DLI is that it represents a language program with little leeway to fail.
 >> I
 >> spent 20 years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is to train
 >> allied and friendly military personnel worldwide in general and
 >> specialized English. Most students start ESL in their home countries
 >> with
 >> DLIELC personnel advising, and in some cases teaching, in these overseas
 >> military language centers. It may still be the largest language program
 >> in
 >> the world. Students after reaching certain levels go to Lackland Air
 >> Force
 >> Base in San Antonio, complete their general English, usually go through
 >> specialized terminology and then on to whatever training their country
 >> needs with the U.S. military. Students have run the full gamut from
 >> recruits and NCO's up to generals and admirals. This is a very tightly
 >> organized "well-packaged" language program with predictable training
 >> times
 >> and results.
 >>
 >> Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb while I was at
 >> at DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum. This was
 >> rarely broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters' bean
 >> counter would calculate that if a mere two or three students could be
 >> added to a class, voila, look at the money we would save! This money
 >> came
 >> both from foreign governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue and then
 >> try
 >> it, I believe several times over the years. However, in an organization
 >> that has a very effective testing system; both achievement and
 >> proficiency, it was soon noticed that the scores were going down, just
 >> enough so that they could prove that no money was being saved on teacher
 >> salaries and other expenses. I spent three years with the Royal Thai
 >> Navy
 >> for DLI as language training advisor and remember having to twist arms
 >> with the RTN Navy Education Department with the same problem. They
 >> wanted
 >> 15 in a class.
 >>
 >> Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during my last
 >> eight years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes have
 >> consistently been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an
 >> organization is stuck with a low budget, make the hours of training per
 >> week lower, but keep the class sizes within 10 or so students. Fewer
 >> hours
 >> of really effective training are certainly better than large classes
 >> where
 >> the student attention level and collegiality are reduced. I remember
 >> Mary
 >> Finocchiaro saying years ago that she didn't care how many students were
 >> in her classroom, she would teach them! Unfortunately, most of us just
 >> aren't THAT dynamic.
 >>
 >> Cheers,  Ted
 >> www.tedklein-ESL.com
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> ----- Original Message -----
 >> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
 >> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
 >> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM
 >> Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist
 >>
 >>
 >> Usha,
 >>
 >> I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
 >> experience that with more than 10 students, learning decreases?  If so,
 >> how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be
 >> interested
 >> in ways to decrease class size.
 >>
 >> It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
 >> constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more
 >> important
 >> to involve them in activities in which all get to participate, which
 >> means
 >> less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small classes
 >> need that.
 >>
 >> What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?
 >>
 >> You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop out of
 >> classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any of you
 >> keep
 >> records of your students that would identify those who do return?  Do
 >> you
 >> have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning English
 >> outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know of any
 >> research about adult English Language Learners in this area, but there
 >> is
 >> an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State
 >> University
 >> following adult literacy level students for several years.  They have
 >> identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside of the
 >> classroom and also that some of these learners come back to classes
 >> after
 >> being out of them for some time.
 >>
 >> Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of you been
 >> able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of these
 >> services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have been most
 >> effective? If you teach in a community college, have your students had
 >> access to the various support services provided to other students?
 >>
 >> Several of you have talked about the differences in progress made by
 >> students with more advanced education and those who are at literacy
 >> level.
 >>  Because literacy level students take longer in making progress, most
 >> programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and
 >> literate
 >> beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and literacy
 >> will
 >> need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to talk about
 >> what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about
 >> persistence
 >> of literacy level students and their learning gains.
 >>
 >> Students with advanced education in their own language may be able to
 >> have
 >> a condensed program since they are already experienced as students and
 >> often have high motivation to get through English so that they can take
 >> courses related to their previous or future career.  City College of San
 >> Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters worth of
 >> work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer something along
 >> these lines?
 >>
 >> Jodi
 >>
 >>
 >>> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked the tool
 >>> that
 >>> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope that it
 >>> is
 >>> not
 >>> something that has already been asked and answered.
 >>>
 >>> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of our ESL
 >>> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal constraints
 >>> and
 >>> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a positive
 >>> to
 >>> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we expect to see
 >>> more
 >>> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the numbers.
 >>>
 >>> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy programs
 >>> because of many socio-economic factors.
 >>>
 >>> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing market (in
 >>> past
 >>> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to stay in
 >>> one
 >>> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen more in
 >>> people
 >>> who do not have high levels of education from their native country).
 >>>
 >>> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from their
 >>> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some kind of
 >>> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs, go in and
 >>> out
 >>> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of various
 >>> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and have no time
 >>> to
 >>> practice.
 >>>
 >>> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in educational
 >>> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
 >>> availability
 >>> of  community resources.
 >>>
 >>> Usha Narayanan
 >>> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
 >>> California
 >>> 408-522-2737
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
 >>>
 >>>> Marie,
 >>>>
 >>>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and out of the
 >>>> U.S.A.
 >>>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc. in ESL.
 >>>> It
 >>>> is
 >>>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that I'm
 >>>> back
 >>>> in the
 >>>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the Defense
 >>>> Language
 >>>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching immigrants part
 >>>> time for
 >>>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin
 >>>> Community
 >>>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what language
 >>>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to work at a
 >>>> higher
 >>>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I
 >>>> apply
 >>>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy
 >>>> traps."
 >>>> I
 >>>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
 >>>> interested and
 >>>> it is published on my website at
 >>>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel absolutely free
 >>>> to use
 >>>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank you very
 >>>> much for
 >>>> the input. Questions are welcome.
 >>>>
 >>>> Cheers,   Ted
 >>>>
 >>>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
 >>>>   Independent Consultant in Language
 >>>>          and Intercultural Training
 >>>>                 14456 Agarita Road
 >>>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
 >>>>              Phone:512-266-1801
 >>>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
 >>>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
 >>>>
 >>>>
 >>>> ----- Original Message -----
 >>>>>
 >>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Hi  Ted,
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it
 >>>>> yourself?
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try
 >>>>> to
 >>>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do others
 >>>>> you
 >>>>> work with?
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the
 >>>>> students
 >>>>> advance?
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Marie
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
 >>>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
 >>>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
 >>>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
 >>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
 >>>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
 >>>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> Marie,
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> Ted
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
 >>>>>>  NO
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>    supportive personality?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>    other and the instructor?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>     target language  proficiency?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>     than push them?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>     exaggerated speech?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>     results?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> ---- Original Message -----
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Hello  everyone,
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on  regarding
 >>>>>>> your
 >>>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??  I was
 >>>>>>> very
 >>>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues
 >>>>>>> that
 >>>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
 >>>>>>> intensity
 >>>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
 >>>>>>> opportunities
 >>>>>>> for  professional development.
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit the ESL
 >>>>>>> student
 >>>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Thanks!
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Marie  Cora
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Marie  Cora
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
 >>>>>>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> -------------------------------
 >>>>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
 >>>>>>> Assessment mailing list
 >>>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
 >>>>>>> To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
 >>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 >>>>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> -------------------------------
 >>>>> National Institute for  Literacy
 >>>>> Assessment mailing list
 >>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
 >>>>> To unsubscribe  or change your subscription settings, please go to
 >>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 >>>>> Email delivered to  taklein at austin.rr.com
 >>>>
 >>>>
 >>>> -------------------------------
 >>>> National Institute for Literacy
 >>>> Assessment mailing list
 >>>> Assessment at nifl.gov
 >>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
 >>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 >>>> Email delivered to usha_narayanan at fuhsd.org
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> Scanned by Barracuda Spam Firewall
 >>> -------------------------------
 >>> National Institute for Literacy
 >>> Assessment mailing list
 >>> Assessment at nifl.gov
 >>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
 >>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 >>> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
 >>>
 >>
 >>
 >> --
 >> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
 >> Professor, Education Department
 >> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
 >> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in
 >> ESOL/Bilingual
 >> Education
 >> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
 >> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
 >> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
 >> email: crandall at umbc.edu
 >> www.umbc.edu/llc/
 >> www.umbc.edu/esol/
 >> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> -------------------------------
 >> National Institute for Literacy
 >> Assessment mailing list
 >> Assessment at nifl.gov
 >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
 >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 >> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com-------------------------------
 >> National Institute for Literacy
 >> Assessment mailing list
 >> Assessment at nifl.gov
 >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
 >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 >> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
 >>
 >
 >
 > --
 > JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
 > Professor, Education Department
 > Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
 > Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
 > Education
 > University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
 > 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
 > ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
 > email: crandall at umbc.edu
 > www.umbc.edu/llc/
 > www.umbc.edu/esol/
 > www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
 >
 >
 >
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 > Assessment mailing list
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 > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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 > Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
 >
 
 
 -- 
 JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
 Professor, Education Department
 Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
 Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
 Education
  University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
   1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
 ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
 email: crandall at umbc.edu
 www.umbc.edu/llc/
 www.umbc.edu/esol/
 www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
 
 
 
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 Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com 
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    To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
  
    Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
  
    
   
      JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
  
    Professor and Director
  
    Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
  
    Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
  
    University of Maryland Baltimore County
  
    1000 Hilltop Circle
  
    Baltimore, MD 21250
  
    tel:  410-455-2313
  
    fax: 410-455-8947
  
    eml: crandall at umbc.edu
  
     
  
     
  
  
 
 
  
     
  
    
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Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
 

 JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor and Director
Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
University of Maryland Baltimore County
1000 Hilltop Circle
Baltimore, MD 21250
tel:  410-455-2313
fax: 410-455-8947
eml: crandall at umbc.edu





 


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Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
 

 JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor and Director
Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
University of Maryland Baltimore County
1000 Hilltop Circle
Baltimore, MD 21250
tel:  410-455-2313
fax: 410-455-8947
eml: crandall at umbc.edu





 


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From mjjerdems at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  9 09:14:25 2008
From: mjjerdems at yahoo.com (Mary Jane Jerde)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 06:14:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Assessment 1231] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
	orComments?!
In-Reply-To: <BAY115-W26BCBE0B0433F675BC7169BF2F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <383472.9383.qm@web54007.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

It probably depends upon the developing culture of the program, relative to several factors. 

In my experience, part of this is in the packaging as mentioned below. I have had successful auctions with students from Viet Nam, Sierra Leone, Iraq, Somalia, Sudan, Ghana, Haiti, Bosnia. The items are in good as new condition, useful and mostly not clothes. Everyone gets an equal amount of money in different forms each time: paper dollars, bills and change, a ledger to be verified by student bankers. At very least they've enjoy it as a game in English.

The students are in the US now. Exposing them to various views of secondhand items as part of shopping is a fair enough part of our job as ESL instructors or programs, besides the workplace skills. I've asked about how or if they share children's clothes in their families. This has been a safe starting point so far and allows for a discussion of differences. A field trip to a nearby secondhand store is how we began our process. We had also visited a nearby grocery store.  It does provide a lot of opportunities to discuss pricing, discounts, percents, etc. 

The students should not be forced or expected to buy or accept anything. They do not embarrass someone by refusing something. What they think or do is their business. Being able to discuss this is a good way to practice important conversation skills. 

Mary Jane Jerde

Mary Lynn Simons <macsimoin at hotmail.com> wrote:    .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma }   I totally agree. Second-hand clothes are often seen as "dead people's clothes". Also, it can be offensive to students if they believe this is all  teachers think they can afford. We had a white elephant sale at our school once and it bombed. The students did not like the idea of old gifts. They considered in unbelievably tacky. These were Mexican students. The "dead people's clothes" came from a woman from Nepal. 


---------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 15:04:13 -0500
From: mburt at cal.org
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1199] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions orComments?!

       Noa and others,
  
 I like the idea of the snack bar very much, but I'm curious about  how the concept of buying and wearing second hand clothing from strangers,  if you will, is received by the students. My experience is that the idea  purchasing  and wearing someone else's second-hand clothes and items is  actually one that doesn't always translate across all cultures. True, the  idea is highly positive among middle class here in the U.S.  where it is  seen as a way of saving money,  being "green," and not wasting resources  -- and this is demonstsrated by the prolitferation of trendy 2nd  hand boutiques in cities and ads on Craig's list to sell gently used baby  clothes (even diapers! ) and toys. However, some cultural groups may find the  idea of buying and wearing someone else's clothing as "charity"  (as Jodi  says below) or something somewhat distasteful.  Perhaps the fact that all  items are 50 cents takes that edge off? Has anyone else had this  experience with the concept of 2nd
 hand items and other  cultures?
  
 Great discussion here! 
 Miriam
 **********
  Center for Adult English Language  Acquisition
 Center for Applied Linguistics
 4646 40th Street NW
 Washington, DC 20016
 (202) 362-0700 
 (202) 363-7204 (fax)  
 mburt at cal.org  (email)

  
  
---------------------------------
 
 From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of  Jodi Crandall
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 1:18  PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment  1192] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions  orComments?!
Importance: Low


    
Noa,   

   These are fabulous ideas.  I especially like the emphasis on how    literacy level students can help those who are more educated and also    cooperate and compete with them in the snack bar and    boutique.  
   

   You have provided clear guidance on how to maximize both groups'    strengths and also encourage them to learn from each other.
   

   By the way, "boutique" is so much more positive a name than the usual    "closet" or another name that sounds like it's charity.
   

   Do others have suggestions of ways of accommodating literacy level and    more educated students in the same class.
   

   Jodi
   
      On Feb 8, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Sadan, Noa wrote:

        Jodi,
      
     The classroom mix of the highly educated literate students who      didn't know English with the literacy level beginning English students was      often a challenge. The first (unstated) task was to help the      educated students realize that they might learn a great deal from those who      picked up oral language faster than they did. 
      
     Techniques for dealing with the mixed  levels:
         The Key: fostering a sense of      community within the class
         Main technique: Group work - teacher as enabler,      moving around the groups
            
           extra reading help in        reading given while class was working on either written assignments or        group projects        
           groups were mixed                 
                           always by language          
                  occasionally by gender          
                  rarely by ability (only when reading          lessons specifically for the literacy group were          held)

         School Job: The Refugee Center has a working      Snack Bar, and Boutique (donated clothing - everything sells for fifty      cents/item).
            
            students polish their abilty to work        together        
           students learn chain of command (literacy        level students are supervisors just as often as the highly educated,        since they often have a verbal advantage)        
            literacy-level students could make        coffee, serve as a cashier, and give excellent customer        service        
           a highly educated accountant who cannot        get out an English sentence orally, could create a cost-accounting        spreadsheet see if it was less expensive to buy bulk sugar or        packets for coffee.
     Other projects are used as well - making recipe books, making student      profile books. Today, with the use of the computer, the possibilities are      endless for activities for mixed classes.
      
     Noa
        

          
---------------------------------
     From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]      On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Thursday, February 07,      2008 12:59 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion      List
Subject: [Assessment 1152] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No      Questions orComments?!


     
Noa,      

     Thanks for sharing this.  How wonderful to have had 20 hours per      week for these students.  Besides mutual respect (which is very      important), were there ways in which students could use their complementary      skills to help each other.  If you could describe some of the      activities that you or others used that were helpful, that would be      great.
     

     If others of you could share your experiences with mixed classes, and      how you coped with them, I think a lot of us would be interested.
     

     The change to separate Listening, Reading and "Homeroom" classes is      also a very interesting way of meeting the needs of this diverse      population.  I know that many community colleges separate their      instruction in adult ESL to oral language skills (Listening/Speaking) and      written language (Reading/Writing) skills.  Are there others out there      who could share your experiences in this regard?
     

     The presence of World English speakers and Generation 1.5 speakers in      adult ESL has further complicated the situation.  I'd be interested in      knowing how  others  have dealt with such diverse students in      adult ESL/ESOL.
     

     Jodi
     

     

      
     n Feb 7, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Sadan, Noa wrote:      
            Years ago, the Montgomery County Refugee Training        Program (Montgomery
       College, Silver Spring, MD)had highly educated        people with no English,
       in class with literacy level students. It was        certainly difficult
       meeting the needs of all students, but in this        intensive 20-hours/week
       program, a tremendous mutual respect was fostered        between the groups.
       Typically, the highly educated students raced        ahead with reading and
       writing, while the literacy students sped ahead        with oral language. The
       Somali mother of nine would say to the Russian        engineer, "I wish I could
       read and write like you!", while the Russian        woman would reply, "I wish
       I could speak like you."
       

       All this ended with a slightly different        solution. The Refugee Center,
       then under the direction of Donna Kinerney,        divided that school day into
       separate Listening,Reading and "Homeroom"        classes. Homerooom took in all
       skills, plus the introduction to the American        workplace. This model was
       in place when we began to get World English        speakers who were not
       literate. It provided a solution in which they        could study in a
       literacy-level reading/writing class, and        interact in a higher level
       Listening and Homeroom class. 
       

       -----Original Message-----
       From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov        [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
       On Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
       Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM
       To: The Assessment Discussion List
       Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous        Content?} RE: No Questions or
       Comments?!
       

       Jackie and Forrest,
       

       I think most large programs separate literacy        level students from others
       who are at a beginning level.  I know that back in the 1980s        when there
       were large refugee ESL programs, several        community colleges created
       parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels and        even into intermediate
       levels, with one set of classes for students with        limited literacy or
       prior schooling and another for more educated        students.  The reason        was
       that the students with less education made slower        progress.  Some of
       this is undoubtedly due to the way in which we        teach English (requiring
       literacy), but it is also because students need        to become accustomed to
       attending classes, learning to hold and use a pen        or pencil, and a wide
       range of basic skills that come with being a        student in a class.
       

       Those of you who have separate classes for those        who need literacy:
       Can
       you tell us what kind of classes or program you        provide?
       

       Those who teach both literacy and more educated        learners in the same
       class:         Can you let us know how you manage?  What are some ways in  which
       you accommodate both sets of needs?
       

       Jodi
                Forrest,
                     I like the idea of separate classes for those with a          literacy 
         background and those without. These two groups          have such different 
         needs. Having both in the class make it          difficult for a teacher to 
         meet the needs of either group well and I find          that often the stronger
       

                students dominate the class, and their drive          push the teacher forward.
       

                If the instructor does not keep up with the          students who are learning 
         at a faster rate, they often become frustrated          and leave or mentally 
         check out. However, if the instructor keeps up          with those students, 
         the others are unable to keep up and they get          frustrated.
                    I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And          regardless
       

                of how you do it, well-trained instructors are          essential.
         Jackie
         

         

         On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net>          wrote:
                    

            To all of you who commented            on level of prior education as a factor 
           in student performance:
           

           

           

           Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked            believes that more 
           highly educated students do better in terms            of  persistence,            learning
       

                           gains, and transitions. And learning theory            would lead us to expect 
           this.
           Regrettably
           we found very little hard data about how much            difference prior 
           education makes, because too few programs            track the level of prior 
           education of their students and correlate it            with outcomes. DO any of
       

                           you do this? That is, do you have any data on            HOW MUCH difference 
           level of prior education makes?
           Or
           any strong impressions? And are there "cut            points" in prior education
       

                           that seem to make a difference -- e.g.            students who are completely 
           illiterate, students who at least reached            high school, high school 
           graduates, college graduates, etc. --  or is level of prior            education
       

                           pretty much of a continuum?
           

           

           

           More importantly, what can programs DO to            narrow the gap between 
           highly educated students and those with less            prior education? 
           Presumably students with very low levels of            education are more likely
       

                           end up in the lower level ESL courses            (Literacy or Low-Beginning 
           levels) why are (almost by
           definition)  in the business of teaching            basic literacy and sometimes
       

                           math.
           Why isn't this enough? In your experience,            does the "gap" exist at 
           these levels too, or mainly at higher levels?            At any levels, would it
       

                           be desirable to place less highly educated            students in separate 
           classes from those with more education and            adjust the 
           curriculum/support systems for them            accordingly? Some programs have 
           tried "native language literacy" or the            Spanish GED. What has been 
           the experience of any of you with these            approaches? Any other ideas? 
           IS there an adult ESL equivalent of            "bi-lingual education" that 
           should be tried?
           

           

           

           It seems to me that we need to come up with            better ideas. Because the
       

                           people who study immigration tell us that the            level of education of 
           immigrants has been falling. And if            Immigration Reform mandates large
       

                           numbers of undocumented people to "learn            English" (whatever that 
           means), ESL programs may be swamped with            students who have very 
           little education in their native countries            and too little money to 
           serve them.  So anyone who has any ideas            about how to bridge this 
           "education gap" could help us a lot by            posting ideas about how to 
           close it on this discussion list.
           

           

           

           Forrest Chisman
           

           Vice President
           

           CAAL
           

           

           

           

           

           

           

           *From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
           [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
           *On
           Behalf Of *Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
           *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32            PM
           *To:* The Assessment Discussion List
           *Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous            Content?} RE: No 
           Questions or Comments?!
           

           

           

           

           Hi Jackie,
           

           Thank you for this information. I believe            this research must be what 
           my former Spanish teacher was basing her            argument on for bilingual 
           education in the K-12 school system.
           

           Tina
           

           Tina Luffman
           Coordinator, Developmental Education
           Verde Valley Campus
           928-634-6544
           tina_luffman at yc.edu
           

                        *"Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>*            Sent by: 
           assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
           

           02/05/2008 11:13 AM
           

           Please respond to
           The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
           

           To
           

           "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
           

           cc
           

           Subject
           

           [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?}            RE: No Questions or  
           Comments?!
           

           

           

           

           

           

           Hi Tina,
           

           This has been researched already and is the            basis for the arguement 
           in favor of bilingual education, a good idea            that was not implemented
       

                           in the best way. For many years people have            known that a good 
           foundation in literacy in the first language            will facilitate learning
       

                           in a second or third language.
           

           Another interesting twist is the existence of            languages that are not 
           written.
           

           Jackie
           

           

           On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu>            wrote:
                        Hi list members,
             

             My experience teaching ELAA students in the              GED class is similar to
           that
           of
                        Gail. If the student has a solid              educational background in the 
             country
           they
                        came from in their native language, they              tend to advance rather
           quickly
           and
                        get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade              educations from their
           country
           or
                        lower tend to stay in the GED class for              years and do not make much 
             advancement.
             

             This experience relates well to research              done among Native American
           tribes
                        teaching them English. Those Native              Americans who were first taught
           literacy
                        skills in their own tongue learned English              much quicker than those 
             who
           tried
                        to learn literacy skills in English without              that background in 
             their
           own
                        tongue. I also found similar problems when              I was learning Spanish. 
             The concepts I could mentally translate              from English to Spanish 
             were much
           easier
                        to grasp and learn than those I didn't know              in English. Perhaps 
             this
           is
                        something deserving more research.
             

             Tina
             Tina Luffman
             Coordinator, Developmental Education Verde              Valley Campus
             928-634-6544
             tina_luffman at yc.edu
             

             -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov              wrote: -----
             

             To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
             From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org> Sent              by: 
             assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
             Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
             Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous              Content?} RE: No Questions or
       

                                        Comments?!
             

             

             Warning: This message has had one or more              attachments removed
             Warning: (not named).
             Warning: Please read the              "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for
           more
                        information.
             

             In our small adult education program, my              experience (just about 
             three
           years)
                        is that students with solid educational              backgrounds advance,
           particularly if
                        they're not working too many hours. Those              who advance the slowest, 
             if
           at
                        all, are immigrants who are barely literate              in their first 
             language. I
           would
                        say that lack of education is a bigger              factor than lack of time; a
           student
                        who works full-time and is exhausted often              will still succeed 
             because
           he/she
                        is familiar with academic work, and is              goal-oriented. What we do is
           try
           to
                        get our low-level students to come up with              goals, but that's a hard
           concept
                        in a second language.
             

             This does not mean that the factors              mentioned in the research don't
           play
           a
                        part, though. I'm one of those              barely-trained teachers 
             (transitioned
           from
                        another career, got trained mainly through              workshops rather than
           classes).
                        My skill level very well may contribute to              students' slow
       advancement.
                           It's
                        hard for small adult education programs to              get highly skilled ESL
           teachers.
                        The pay is low and there are no benefits.              But my program is
           encouraging
           me
                        to get extra training and has me on a plan              of improvement. I think
           we're
                        making some progress.
             

             Does this address any of the issues? And am              I submitting it right?
             

             ________________________________
             

             From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov              on behalf of Marie Cora
             Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
             To: Assessment at nifl.gov
             Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or              Comments?!
             

             

             Hello everyone,
             

             I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to              comment on regarding your
       

                                        program's effectiveness at helping ESL              students advance??  I              was 
             very curious to know if subscribers              experience the same types of 
             issues
           that
           Dr.
                        Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their              research:  a lack              of 
             intensity
           of
                        instruction/few protocols for transitioning              students/few 
             opportunities
           for
                        professional development.
             

             What are the issues in your program that              you feel inhibit the ESL
           student
                        from advancing?  What do you try to do              about that?
             

             Please post your questions and comments              now.
             

             Thanks!
             

             Marie Cora
             Assessment Discussion List Moderator
             

             

             Marie Cora
             marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
             <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
             NIFL Assessment Discussion List              Moderator 
             <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
           http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
                        

             

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       --
       JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
       Professor, Education Department
       Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy        & Culture Coordinator,
       Peace Corps Master's International Program in        ESOL/Bilingual Education
       University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)        1000 Hilltop Circle,
       Baltimore, MD 21250
       ph:           410-455-2313/2376         fax:          410-455-8947/1880
       email: crandall at umbc.edu
       www.umbc.edu/llc/
       www.umbc.edu/esol/
       www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
       

       

       

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      JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
   Professor and Director
   Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
   Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual    Education
   University of Maryland Baltimore County
   1000 Hilltop Circle
   Baltimore, MD 21250
   tel:  410-455-2313
   fax: 410-455-8947
   eml: crandall at umbc.edu
   

   





 

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From Noa.Sadan at montgomerycollege.edu  Sat Feb  9 11:25:26 2008
From: Noa.Sadan at montgomerycollege.edu (Sadan, Noa)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 11:25:26 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1232] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No
	QuestionsorComments?!
In-Reply-To: <7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F0389D591@MAIL.cal.local>
Message-ID: <A1FACE81B7C82147B9CE6822E2D4A701022A24FC@MCMAIL2.mcnte.mc.cc.md.us>

Miriam, Mary Lynn and others,
 
The boutique at the Refugee Center has a history. People used to come
and donate clothing. Some students would take a huge amount and others
wouldn't touch the pile, citing that they did not want to "take
charity". 
 
In the mid 1990's I came up with the idea of a project for my class:
arrange the clothing, bring in other items, and set up a boutique in
which everything cost ten cents. The fact that students were paying for
their boutique items erased the one impediment that had been there
before - the idea of "taking charity". 
 
We have never  run into any opposition to the idea. Quite the opposite -
it grew, often with student input in terms of ideas, and later clothing,
toys and household items. Students worked with a flow chart - Can the
item go on the floor? Does it need sewing or ironing? 
If there were any students who had reservations about wearing used
clothing, it was not apparent. Even teachers would shop in the Boutiue,
and that lent another level of comfort and legitimacy. Now, former
students come in with their donations to the boutique, and gleefully
talk to us about yard sales. Our current students often go on field
trips tp neighborhood thrift shops, sometimes comparing their offerings
to ours. 
 
If we receive large items, such as computers, musical instruments, play
stations, televisions, dinnerware, and such, we handle it by lottery,
having all those interested in the item participate in a drawing.
 
The concept has also expanded to a video rental library run by yet
another class, in which donated VHS and DVD videos are borrowed (at no
charge). The students have itemized the offerings in a spreadsheet, and
are currently using the internet to write synopses about each movie. We
have also invited one of the College's Business Institute directors to
talk to the class about microenterprise, and how they can open their own
businesses.
 
Sometimes, a tiny idea used to sovle a problem can spiral into something
entirely new!

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Miriam Burt
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 3:04 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1199] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No
QuestionsorComments?!


Noa and others,
 
I like the idea of the snack bar very much, but I'm curious about how
the concept of buying and wearing second hand clothing from strangers,
if you will, is received by the students. My experience is that the idea
purchasing  and wearing someone else's second-hand clothes and items is
actually one that doesn't always translate across all cultures. True,
the idea is highly positive among middle class here in the U.S.  where
it is seen as a way of saving money,  being "green," and not wasting
resources -- and this is demonstsrated by the prolitferation of trendy
2nd hand boutiques in cities and ads on Craig's list to sell gently used
baby clothes (even diapers! ) and toys. However, some cultural groups
may find the idea of buying and wearing someone else's clothing as
"charity"  (as Jodi says below) or something somewhat distasteful.
Perhaps the fact that all items are 50 cents takes that edge off? Has
anyone else had this experience with the concept of 2nd hand items and
other cultures?
 
Great discussion here! 
Miriam
**********
Center for Adult English Language Acquisition
Center for Applied Linguistics
4646 40th Street NW
Washington, DC 20016
(202) 362-0700 
(202) 363-7204 (fax) 
mburt at cal.org <mailto:mburt at cal.org>  (email)
 
________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 1:18 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1192] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
orComments?!
Importance: Low



	Noa, 

	These are fabulous ideas.  I especially like the emphasis on how
literacy level students can help those who are more educated and also
cooperate and compete with them in the snack bar and boutique.  

	You have provided clear guidance on how to maximize both groups'
strengths and also encourage them to learn from each other.

	By the way, "boutique" is so much more positive a name than the
usual "closet" or another name that sounds like it's charity.

	Do others have suggestions of ways of accommodating literacy
level and more educated students in the same class.

	Jodi

	On Feb 8, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Sadan, Noa wrote:


		Jodi,
		 
		The classroom mix of the highly educated literate
students who didn't know English with the literacy level beginning
English students was often a challenge. The first (unstated) task was to
help the educated students realize that they might learn a great deal
from those who picked up oral language faster than they did. 
		 
		Techniques for dealing with the mixed levels:
		    The Key: fostering a sense of community within the
class
		    Main technique: Group work - teacher as enabler,
moving around the groups

		*	        extra reading help in reading given
while class was working on either written assignments or group projects 
		*	        groups were mixed 

			*	            always by language 
			*	            occasionally by gender 
			*	            rarely by ability (only when
reading lessons specifically for the literacy group were held)

		    School Job: The Refugee Center has a working Snack
Bar, and Boutique (donated clothing - everything sells for fifty
cents/item).

		*	         students polish their abilty to work
together 
		*	        students learn chain of command
(literacy level students are supervisors just as often as the highly
educated, since they often have a verbal advantage) 
		*	         literacy-level students could make
coffee, serve as a cashier, and give excellent customer service 
		*	        a highly educated accountant who cannot
get out an English sentence orally, could create a cost-accounting
spreadsheet see if it was less expensive to buy bulk sugar or packets
for coffee.

		Other projects are used as well - making recipe books,
making student profile books. Today, with the use of the computer, the
possibilities are endless for activities for mixed classes.
		 
		Noa
		   
		
________________________________

		From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
		Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 12:59 PM
		To: The Assessment Discussion List
		Subject: [Assessment 1152] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE:
No Questions orComments?!
		
		
		Noa, 

		Thanks for sharing this.  How wonderful to have had 20
hours per week for these students.  Besides mutual respect (which is
very important), were there ways in which students could use their
complementary skills to help each other.  If you could describe some of
the activities that you or others used that were helpful, that would be
great.

		If others of you could share your experiences with mixed
classes, and how you coped with them, I think a lot of us would be
interested.

		The change to separate Listening, Reading and "Homeroom"
classes is also a very interesting way of meeting the needs of this
diverse population.  I know that many community colleges separate their
instruction in adult ESL to oral language skills (Listening/Speaking)
and written language (Reading/Writing) skills.  Are there others out
there who could share your experiences in this regard?

		The presence of World English speakers and Generation
1.5 speakers in adult ESL has further complicated the situation.  I'd be
interested in knowing how  others  have dealt with such diverse students
in adult ESL/ESOL.

		Jodi


		 
		n Feb 7, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Sadan, Noa wrote: 


			Years ago, the Montgomery County Refugee
Training Program (Montgomery
			College, Silver Spring, MD)had highly educated
people with no English,
			in class with literacy level students. It was
certainly difficult
			meeting the needs of all students, but in this
intensive 20-hours/week
			program, a tremendous mutual respect was
fostered between the groups.
			Typically, the highly educated students raced
ahead with reading and
			writing, while the literacy students sped ahead
with oral language. The
			Somali mother of nine would say to the Russian
engineer, "I wish I could
			read and write like you!", while the Russian
woman would reply, "I wish
			I could speak like you."

			All this ended with a slightly different
solution. The Refugee Center,
			then under the direction of Donna Kinerney,
divided that school day into
			separate Listening,Reading and "Homeroom"
classes. Homerooom took in all
			skills, plus the introduction to the American
workplace. This model was
			in place when we began to get World English
speakers who were not
			literate. It provided a solution in which they
could study in a
			literacy-level reading/writing class, and
interact in a higher level
			Listening and Homeroom class. 

			-----Original Message-----
			From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
			On Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
			Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM
			To: The Assessment Discussion List
			Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous
Content?} RE: No Questions or
			Comments?!

			Jackie and Forrest,

			I think most large programs separate literacy
level students from others
			who are at a beginning level.  I know that back
in the 1980s when there
			were large refugee ESL programs, several
community colleges created
			parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels
and even into intermediate
			levels, with one set of classes for students
with limited literacy or
			prior schooling and another for more educated
students.  The reason was
			that the students with less education made
slower progress.  Some of
			this is undoubtedly due to the way in which we
teach English (requiring
			literacy), but it is also because students need
to become accustomed to
			attending classes, learning to hold and use a
pen or pencil, and a wide
			range of basic skills that come with being a
student in a class.

			Those of you who have separate classes for those
who need literacy:
			Can
			you tell us what kind of classes or program you
provide?

			Those who teach both literacy and more educated
learners in the same
			class:  Can you let us know how you manage?
What are some ways in which
			you accommodate both sets of needs?

			Jodi

				Forrest,
				   I like the idea of separate classes
for those with a literacy 
				background and those without. These two
groups have such different 
				needs. Having both in the class make it
difficult for a teacher to 
				meet the needs of either group well and
I find that often the stronger


				students dominate the class, and their
drive push the teacher forward.


				If the instructor does not keep up with
the students who are learning 
				at a faster rate, they often become
frustrated and leave or mentally 
				check out. However, if the instructor
keeps up with those students, 
				the others are unable to keep up and
they get frustrated.
				  I think that literacy could perhaps be
separated out. And regardless


				of how you do it, well-trained
instructors are essential.
				Jackie


				On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman
<forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:


				 To all of you who commented on level of
prior education as a factor 
				in student performance:



				Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I
talked believes that more 
				highly educated students do better in
terms of  persistence, learning


				gains, and transitions. And learning
theory would lead us to expect 
				this.
				Regrettably
				we found very little hard data about how
much difference prior 
				education makes, because too few
programs track the level of prior 
				education of their students and
correlate it with outcomes. DO any of


				you do this? That is, do you have any
data on HOW MUCH difference 
				level of prior education makes?
				Or
				any strong impressions? And are there
"cut points" in prior education


				that seem to make a difference -- e.g.
students who are completely 
				illiterate, students who at least
reached high school, high school 
				graduates, college graduates, etc. --
or is level of prior education


				pretty much of a continuum?



				More importantly, what can programs DO
to narrow the gap between 
				highly educated students and those with
less prior education? 
				Presumably students with very low levels
of education are more likely


				end up in the lower level ESL courses
(Literacy or Low-Beginning 
				levels) why are (almost by
				definition)  in the business of teaching
basic literacy and sometimes


				math.
				Why isn't this enough? In your
experience, does the "gap" exist at 
				these levels too, or mainly at higher
levels? At any levels, would it


				be desirable to place less highly
educated students in separate 
				classes from those with more education
and adjust the 
				curriculum/support systems for them
accordingly? Some programs have 
				tried "native language literacy" or the
Spanish GED. What has been 
				the experience of any of you with these
approaches? Any other ideas? 
				IS there an adult ESL equivalent of
"bi-lingual education" that 
				should be tried?



				It seems to me that we need to come up
with better ideas. Because the


				people who study immigration tell us
that the level of education of 
				immigrants has been falling. And if
Immigration Reform mandates large


				numbers of undocumented people to "learn
English" (whatever that 
				means), ESL programs may be swamped with
students who have very 
				little education in their native
countries and too little money to 
				serve them.  So anyone who has any ideas
about how to bridge this 
				"education gap" could help us a lot by
posting ideas about how to 
				close it on this discussion list.



				Forrest Chisman

				Vice President

				CAAL







				*From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
				[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
				*On
				Behalf Of *Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
				*Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32
PM
				*To:* The Assessment Discussion List
				*Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re:
{Dangerous Content?} RE: No 
				Questions or Comments?!




				Hi Jackie,

				Thank you for this information. I
believe this research must be what 
				my former Spanish teacher was basing her
argument on for bilingual 
				education in the K-12 school system.

				Tina

				Tina Luffman
				Coordinator, Developmental Education
				Verde Valley Campus
				928-634-6544
				tina_luffman at yc.edu

				  *"Jackie Coelho"
<jackie.coelho at gmail.com>* Sent by: 
				assessment-bounces at nifl.gov

				02/05/2008 11:13 AM

				Please respond to
				The Assessment Discussion List
<assessment at nifl.gov>

				To

				"The Assessment Discussion List"
<assessment at nifl.gov>

				cc

				Subject

				[Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous
Content?} RE: No Questions or  
				Comments?!






				Hi Tina,

				This has been researched already and is
the basis for the arguement 
				in favor of bilingual education, a good
idea that was not implemented


				in the best way. For many years people
have known that a good 
				foundation in literacy in the first
language will facilitate learning


				in a second or third language.

				Another interesting twist is the
existence of languages that are not 
				written.

				Jackie


				On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
<Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:

				Hi list members,

				My experience teaching ELAA students in
the GED class is similar to

				that
				of

				Gail. If the student has a solid
educational background in the 
				country

				they

				came from in their native language, they
tend to advance rather

				quickly
				and

				get their GED. Those coming with 6th
grade educations from their

				country
				or

				lower tend to stay in the GED class for
years and do not make much 
				advancement.

				This experience relates well to research
done among Native American

				tribes

				teaching them English. Those Native
Americans who were first taught

				literacy

				skills in their own tongue learned
English much quicker than those 
				who

				tried

				to learn literacy skills in English
without that background in 
				their

				own

				tongue. I also found similar problems
when I was learning Spanish. 
				The concepts I could mentally translate
from English to Spanish 
				were much

				easier

				to grasp and learn than those I didn't
know in English. Perhaps 
				this

				is

				something deserving more research.

				Tina
				Tina Luffman
				Coordinator, Developmental Education
Verde Valley Campus
				928-634-6544
				tina_luffman at yc.edu

				-----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote:
-----

				To: "The Assessment Discussion List"
<assessment at nifl.gov>
				From: "Gail Burnett"
<gburnett at sanford.org> Sent by: 
				assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
				Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
				Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous
Content?} RE: No Questions or


				Comments?!


				Warning: This message has had one or
more attachments removed
				Warning: (not named).
				Warning: Please read the
"AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for

				more

				information.

				In our small adult education program, my
experience (just about 
				three

				years)

				is that students with solid educational
backgrounds advance,

				particularly if

				they're not working too many hours.
Those who advance the slowest, 
				if

				at

				all, are immigrants who are barely
literate in their first 
				language. I

				would

				say that lack of education is a bigger
factor than lack of time; a

				student

				who works full-time and is exhausted
often will still succeed 
				because

				he/she

				is familiar with academic work, and is
goal-oriented. What we do is

				try
				to

				get our low-level students to come up
with goals, but that's a hard

				concept

				in a second language.

				This does not mean that the factors
mentioned in the research don't

				play
				a

				part, though. I'm one of those
barely-trained teachers 
				(transitioned

				from

				another career, got trained mainly
through workshops rather than

				classes).

				My skill level very well may contribute
to students' slow

			advancement.

				It's

				hard for small adult education programs
to get highly skilled ESL

				teachers.

				The pay is low and there are no
benefits. But my program is

				encouraging
				me

				to get extra training and has me on a
plan of improvement. I think

				we're

				making some progress.

				Does this address any of the issues? And
am I submitting it right?

				________________________________

				From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on
behalf of Marie Cora
				Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
				To: Assessment at nifl.gov
				Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions
or Comments?!


				Hello everyone,

				I'm so surprised!  No one has anything
to comment on regarding your


				program's effectiveness at helping ESL
students advance??  I was 
				very curious to know if subscribers
experience the same types of 
				issues

				that
				Dr.

				Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their
research:  a lack of 
				intensity

				of

				instruction/few protocols for
transitioning students/few 
				opportunities

				for

				professional development.

				What are the issues in your program that
you feel inhibit the ESL

				student

				from advancing?  What do you try to do
about that?

				Please post your questions and comments
now.

				Thanks!

				Marie Cora
				Assessment Discussion List Moderator


				Marie Cora
				marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
				<mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
				NIFL Assessment Discussion List
Moderator 
				<marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>

	
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				Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu




			--
			JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
			Professor, Education Department
			Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy &
Culture Coordinator,
			Peace Corps Master's International Program in
ESOL/Bilingual Education
			University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle,
			Baltimore, MD 21250
			ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:
410-455-8947/1880
			email: crandall at umbc.edu
			www.umbc.edu/llc/
			www.umbc.edu/esol/
			www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html



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	JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
	Professor and Director
	Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
	Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
	University of Maryland Baltimore County
	1000 Hilltop Circle
	Baltimore, MD 21250
	tel:  410-455-2313
	fax: 410-455-8947
	eml: crandall at umbc.edu





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From forrest at crosslink.net  Fri Feb  8 22:54:12 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 22:54:12 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1233]  Ave atque vale!
In-Reply-To: <948347.18120.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <948347.18120.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000001c86acf$74a516d0$5def4470$@net>

 

Dear Participants,

 

Since it's Friday night and Marie says the Discussion is over, I guess it
is. But I'd like to thank you all personally for taking the time to
participate and for making this such an "interesting" week for me. I've
learned a lot, and I hope you've benefited too. In any event, you all seem
to be wonderful people, and I hope we haven't heard the last of each other.
Both Jodi and I will be at the TESOL Convention, and I would love to meet
you personally.

 

I hope you all have wonderful weekends with friends and family. I will be
devoting a lot of time to making up for  neglecting my "child" (see
attachment) while I was writing to you.

 

Forrest

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From macsimoin at hotmail.com  Sat Feb  9 15:15:15 2008
From: macsimoin at hotmail.com (Mary Lynn Simons)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 20:15:15 +0000
Subject: [Assessment 1234] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE:
	No	QuestionsorComments?!
In-Reply-To: <A1FACE81B7C82147B9CE6822E2D4A701022A24FC@MCMAIL2.mcnte.mc.cc.md.us>
References: <7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F0389D591@MAIL.cal.local>
	<A1FACE81B7C82147B9CE6822E2D4A701022A24FC@MCMAIL2.mcnte.mc.cc.md.us>
Message-ID: <BAY115-W369A2EFE90FF2096578EECBF280@phx.gbl>


Sounds as if this really works, congratulations!

Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 11:25:26 -0500
From: Noa.Sadan at montgomerycollege.edu
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1232] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No	QuestionsorComments?!








Miriam, Mary Lynn and others,
 
The 
boutique at the Refugee Center has a history. People used to come and donate 
clothing. Some students would take a huge amount and others wouldn't touch the 
pile, citing that they did not want to "take charity". 
 
In the 
mid 1990's I came up with the idea of a project for my class: arrange the 
clothing, bring in other items, and set up a boutique in which everything cost 
ten cents. The fact that students were paying for their boutique 
items erased the one impediment that had been there before - the idea of 
"taking charity". 
 
We have never  run into any opposition to 
the idea. Quite the opposite - it grew, often with student input in terms of 
ideas, and later clothing, toys and household items. Students worked with a flow 
chart - Can the item go on the floor? Does it need sewing or ironing? 

If 
there were any students who had reservations about wearing used clothing, it was 
not apparent. Even teachers would shop in the Boutiue, and that lent another 
level of comfort and legitimacy. Now, former students come in with their 
donations to the boutique, and gleefully talk to us about yard sales. Our 
current students often go on field trips tp neighborhood thrift shops, 
sometimes comparing their offerings to ours. 
 
If we 
receive large items, such as computers, musical instruments, play stations, 
televisions, dinnerware, and such, we handle it by lottery, having all those 
interested in the item participate in a drawing.
 
The 
concept has also expanded to a video rental library run by yet another class, in 
which donated VHS and DVD videos are borrowed (at no charge). The students have 
itemized the offerings in a spreadsheet, and are currently using the internet to 
write synopses about each movie. We have also invited one of the College's 
Business Institute directors to talk to the class about microenterprise, and how 
they can open their own businesses.
 
Sometimes, a tiny idea used to sovle a problem can spiral into something 
entirely new!




From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Miriam 
Burt
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 3:04 PM
To: The 
Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1199] Re: {Dangerous 
Content?} RE: No QuestionsorComments?!



Noa and others,
 
I like the idea of the snack bar very much, but I'm curious about 
how the concept of buying and wearing second hand clothing from strangers, 
if you will, is received by the students. My experience is that the idea 
purchasing  and wearing someone else's second-hand clothes and items is 
actually one that doesn't always translate across all cultures. True, the 
idea is highly positive among middle class here in the U.S.  where it is 
seen as a way of saving money,  being "green," and not wasting resources 
-- and this is demonstsrated by the prolitferation of trendy 2nd 
hand boutiques in cities and ads on Craig's list to sell gently used baby 
clothes (even diapers! ) and toys. However, some cultural groups may find the 
idea of buying and wearing someone else's clothing as "charity"  (as Jodi 
says below) or something somewhat distasteful.  Perhaps the fact that all 
items are 50 cents takes that edge off? Has anyone else had this 
experience with the concept of 2nd hand items and other 
cultures?
 
Great discussion here! 
Miriam
**********

Center for Adult English Language 
Acquisition
Center for Applied Linguistics
4646 40th Street NW
Washington, DC 20016
(202) 362-0700 
(202) 363-7204 (fax) 

mburt at cal.org 
(email)
 



From: 
assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of 
Jodi Crandall
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 1:18 
PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 
1192] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions 
orComments?!
Importance: Low



  Noa, 
  
  These are fabulous ideas.  I especially like the emphasis on how 
  literacy level students can help those who are more educated and also 
  cooperate and compete with them in the snack bar and 
  boutique.  
  
  You have provided clear guidance on how to maximize both groups' 
  strengths and also encourage them to learn from each other.
  
  By the way, "boutique" is so much more positive a name than the usual 
  "closet" or another name that sounds like it's charity.
  
  Do others have suggestions of ways of accommodating literacy level and 
  more educated students in the same class.
  
  Jodi
  

  
  On Feb 8, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Sadan, Noa wrote:
  
    Jodi,
     
    The classroom mix of the highly educated literate students who 
    didn't know English with the literacy level beginning English students was 
    often a challenge. The first (unstated) task was to help the 
    educated students realize that they might learn a great deal from those who 
    picked up oral language faster than they did. 
     
    Techniques for dealing with the mixed 
levels:
        The Key: fostering a sense of 
    community within the class
        Main technique: Group work - teacher as enabler, 
    moving around the groups
    
              extra reading help in 
      reading given while class was working on either written assignments or 
      group projects 
              groups were mixed 
      
                    
        always by language 
                    occasionally by gender 
                    rarely by ability (only when reading 
        lessons specifically for the literacy group were 
        held)
        School Job: The Refugee Center has a working 
    Snack Bar, and Boutique (donated clothing - everything sells for fifty 
    cents/item).
    
               students polish their abilty to work 
      together 
              students learn chain of command (literacy 
      level students are supervisors just as often as the highly educated, 
      since they often have a verbal advantage) 
               literacy-level students could make 
      coffee, serve as a cashier, and give excellent customer 
      service 
              a highly educated accountant who cannot 
      get out an English sentence orally, could create a cost-accounting 
      spreadsheet see if it was less expensive to buy bulk sugar or 
      packets for coffee.
    Other projects are used as well - making recipe books, making student 
    profile books. Today, with the use of the computer, the possibilities are 
    endless for activities for mixed classes.
     
    Noa
       

    
    
    From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] 
    On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 
    2008 12:59 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion 
    List
Subject: [Assessment 1152] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No 
    Questions orComments?!


    Noa, 
    
    Thanks for sharing this.  How wonderful to have had 20 hours per 
    week for these students.  Besides mutual respect (which is very 
    important), were there ways in which students could use their complementary 
    skills to help each other.  If you could describe some of the 
    activities that you or others used that were helpful, that would be 
    great.
    
    If others of you could share your experiences with mixed classes, and 
    how you coped with them, I think a lot of us would be interested.
    
    The change to separate Listening, Reading and "Homeroom" classes is 
    also a very interesting way of meeting the needs of this diverse 
    population.  I know that many community colleges separate their 
    instruction in adult ESL to oral language skills (Listening/Speaking) and 
    written language (Reading/Writing) skills.  Are there others out there 
    who could share your experiences in this regard?
    
    The presence of World English speakers and Generation 1.5 speakers in 
    adult ESL has further complicated the situation.  I'd be interested in 
    knowing how  others  have dealt with such diverse students in 
    adult ESL/ESOL.
    
    Jodi
    
    
     
    n Feb 7, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Sadan, Noa wrote: 
    
    
      Years ago, the Montgomery County Refugee Training 
      Program (Montgomery
      College, Silver Spring, MD)had highly educated 
      people with no English,
      in class with literacy level students. It was 
      certainly difficult
      meeting the needs of all students, but in this 
      intensive 20-hours/week
      program, a tremendous mutual respect was fostered 
      between the groups.
      Typically, the highly educated students raced 
      ahead with reading and
      writing, while the literacy students sped ahead 
      with oral language. The
      Somali mother of nine would say to the Russian 
      engineer, "I wish I could
      read and write like you!", while the Russian 
      woman would reply, "I wish
      I could speak like you."
      

      All this ended with a slightly different 
      solution. The Refugee Center,
      then under the direction of Donna Kinerney, 
      divided that school day into
      separate Listening,Reading and "Homeroom" 
      classes. Homerooom took in all
      skills, plus the introduction to the American 
      workplace. This model was
      in place when we began to get World English 
      speakers who were not
      literate. It provided a solution in which they 
      could study in a
      literacy-level reading/writing class, and 
      interact in a higher level
      Listening and Homeroom class. 
      

      -----Original Message-----
      From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
      [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
      On Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
      Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:10 PM
      To: The Assessment Discussion List
      Subject: [Assessment 1139] Re: {Dangerous 
      Content?} RE: No Questions or
      Comments?!
      

      Jackie and Forrest,
      

      I think most large programs separate literacy 
      level students from others
      who are at a beginning level.  I know that back in the 1980s 
      when there
      were large refugee ESL programs, several 
      community colleges created
      parallel ESL classes for the beginning levels and 
      even into intermediate
      levels, with one set of classes for students with 
      limited literacy or
      prior schooling and another for more educated 
      students.  The reason 
      was
      that the students with less education made slower 
      progress.  Some of
      this is undoubtedly due to the way in which we 
      teach English (requiring
      literacy), but it is also because students need 
      to become accustomed to
      attending classes, learning to hold and use a pen 
      or pencil, and a wide
      range of basic skills that come with being a 
      student in a class.
      

      Those of you who have separate classes for those 
      who need literacy:
      Can
      you tell us what kind of classes or program you 
      provide?
      

      Those who teach both literacy and more educated 
      learners in the same
      class:  
      Can you let us know how you manage?  What are some ways in 
which
      you accommodate both sets of needs?
      

      Jodi
      
        Forrest,
           
        I like the idea of separate classes for those with a 
        literacy 
        background and those without. These two groups 
        have such different 
        needs. Having both in the class make it 
        difficult for a teacher to 
        meet the needs of either group well and I find 
        that often the stronger
      

      
        students dominate the class, and their drive 
        push the teacher forward.
      

      
        If the instructor does not keep up with the 
        students who are learning 
        at a faster rate, they often become frustrated 
        and leave or mentally 
        check out. However, if the instructor keeps up 
        with those students, 
        the others are unable to keep up and they get 
        frustrated.
          
        I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And 
        regardless
      

      
        of how you do it, well-trained instructors are 
        essential.
        Jackie
        

        

        On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> 
        wrote:
        
          

           To all of you who commented 
          on level of prior education as a factor 
          in student performance:
          

          

          

          Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked 
          believes that more 
          highly educated students do better in terms 
          of  persistence, 
          learning
      

      
        
          gains, and transitions. And learning theory 
          would lead us to expect 
          this.
          Regrettably
          we found very little hard data about how much 
          difference prior 
          education makes, because too few programs 
          track the level of prior 
          education of their students and correlate it 
          with outcomes. DO any of
      

      
        
          you do this? That is, do you have any data on 
          HOW MUCH difference 
          level of prior education makes?
          Or
          any strong impressions? And are there "cut 
          points" in prior education
      

      
        
          that seem to make a difference -- e.g. 
          students who are completely 
          illiterate, students who at least reached 
          high school, high school 
          graduates, college graduates, etc. --  or is level of prior 
          education
      

      
        
          pretty much of a continuum?
          

          

          

          More importantly, what can programs DO to 
          narrow the gap between 
          highly educated students and those with less 
          prior education? 
          Presumably students with very low levels of 
          education are more likely
      

      
        
          end up in the lower level ESL courses 
          (Literacy or Low-Beginning 
          levels) why are (almost by
          definition)  in the business of teaching 
          basic literacy and sometimes
      

      
        
          math.
          Why isn't this enough? In your experience, 
          does the "gap" exist at 
          these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? 
          At any levels, would it
      

      
        
          be desirable to place less highly educated 
          students in separate 
          classes from those with more education and 
          adjust the 
          curriculum/support systems for them 
          accordingly? Some programs have 
          tried "native language literacy" or the 
          Spanish GED. What has been 
          the experience of any of you with these 
          approaches? Any other ideas? 
          IS there an adult ESL equivalent of 
          "bi-lingual education" that 
          should be tried?
          

          

          

          It seems to me that we need to come up with 
          better ideas. Because the
      

      
        
          people who study immigration tell us that the 
          level of education of 
          immigrants has been falling. And if 
          Immigration Reform mandates large
      

      
        
          numbers of undocumented people to "learn 
          English" (whatever that 
          means), ESL programs may be swamped with 
          students who have very 
          little education in their native countries 
          and too little money to 
          serve them.  So anyone who has any ideas 
          about how to bridge this 
          "education gap" could help us a lot by 
          posting ideas about how to 
          close it on this discussion list.
          

          

          

          Forrest Chisman
          

          Vice President
          

          CAAL
          

          

          

          

          

          

          

          *From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
          [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
          *On
          Behalf Of *Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
          *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 
          PM
          *To:* The Assessment Discussion List
          *Subject:* [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous 
          Content?} RE: No 
          Questions or Comments?!
          

          

          

          

          Hi Jackie,
          

          Thank you for this information. I believe 
          this research must be what 
          my former Spanish teacher was basing her 
          argument on for bilingual 
          education in the K-12 school system.
          

          Tina
          

          Tina Luffman
          Coordinator, Developmental Education
          Verde Valley Campus
          928-634-6544
          tina_luffman at yc.edu
          

            
          *"Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>* 
          Sent by: 
          assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
          

          02/05/2008 11:13 AM
          

          Please respond to
          The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
          

          To
          

          "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
          

          cc
          

          Subject
          

          [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} 
          RE: No Questions or  
          Comments?!
          

          

          

          

          

          

          Hi Tina,
          

          This has been researched already and is the 
          basis for the arguement 
          in favor of bilingual education, a good idea 
          that was not implemented
      

      
        
          in the best way. For many years people have 
          known that a good 
          foundation in literacy in the first language 
          will facilitate learning
      

      
        
          in a second or third language.
          

          Another interesting twist is the existence of 
          languages that are not 
          written.
          

          Jackie
          

          

          On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> 
          wrote:
          
            Hi list members,
            

            My experience teaching ELAA students in the 
            GED class is similar to
          that
          of
          
            Gail. If the student has a solid 
            educational background in the 
            country
          they
          
            came from in their native language, they 
            tend to advance rather
          quickly
          and
          
            get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade 
            educations from their
          country
          or
          
            lower tend to stay in the GED class for 
            years and do not make much 
            advancement.
            

            This experience relates well to research 
            done among Native American
          tribes
          
            teaching them English. Those Native 
            Americans who were first taught
          literacy
          
            skills in their own tongue learned English 
            much quicker than those 
            who
          tried
          
            to learn literacy skills in English without 
            that background in 
            their
          own
          
            tongue. I also found similar problems when 
            I was learning Spanish. 
            The concepts I could mentally translate 
            from English to Spanish 
            were much
          easier
          
            to grasp and learn than those I didn't know 
            in English. Perhaps 
            this
          is
          
            something deserving more research.
            

            Tina
            Tina Luffman
            Coordinator, Developmental Education Verde 
            Valley Campus
            928-634-6544
            tina_luffman at yc.edu
            

            -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
            wrote: -----
            

            To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
            From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org> Sent 
            by: 
            assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
            Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM
            Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous 
            Content?} RE: No Questions or
      

      
        
          
            Comments?!
            

            

            Warning: This message has had one or more 
            attachments removed
            Warning: (not named).
            Warning: Please read the 
            "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for
          more
          
            information.
            

            In our small adult education program, my 
            experience (just about 
            three
          years)
          
            is that students with solid educational 
            backgrounds advance,
          particularly if
          
            they're not working too many hours. Those 
            who advance the slowest, 
            if
          at
          
            all, are immigrants who are barely literate 
            in their first 
            language. I
          would
          
            say that lack of education is a bigger 
            factor than lack of time; a
          student
          
            who works full-time and is exhausted often 
            will still succeed 
            because
          he/she
          
            is familiar with academic work, and is 
            goal-oriented. What we do is
          try
          to
          
            get our low-level students to come up with 
            goals, but that's a hard
          concept
          
            in a second language.
            

            This does not mean that the factors 
            mentioned in the research don't
          play
          a
          
            part, though. I'm one of those 
            barely-trained teachers 
            (transitioned
          from
          
            another career, got trained mainly through 
            workshops rather than
          classes).
          
            My skill level very well may contribute to 
            students' slow
      advancement.
      
        
          It's
          
            hard for small adult education programs to 
            get highly skilled ESL
          teachers.
          
            The pay is low and there are no benefits. 
            But my program is
          encouraging
          me
          
            to get extra training and has me on a plan 
            of improvement. I think
          we're
          
            making some progress.
            

            Does this address any of the issues? And am 
            I submitting it right?
            

            ________________________________
            

            From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
            on behalf of Marie Cora
            Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM
            To: Assessment at nifl.gov
            Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or 
            Comments?!
            

            

            Hello everyone,
            

            I'm so surprised!  No one has anything to 
            comment on regarding your
      

      
        
          
            program's effectiveness at helping ESL 
            students advance??  I 
            was 
            very curious to know if subscribers 
            experience the same types of 
            issues
          that
          Dr.
          
            Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their 
            research:  a lack 
            of 
            intensity
          of
          
            instruction/few protocols for transitioning 
            students/few 
            opportunities
          for
          
            professional development.
            

            What are the issues in your program that 
            you feel inhibit the ESL
          student
          
            from advancing?  What do you try to do 
            about that?
            

            Please post your questions and comments 
            now.
            

            Thanks!
            

            Marie Cora
            Assessment Discussion List Moderator
            

            

            Marie Cora
            marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
            <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
            NIFL Assessment Discussion List 
            Moderator 
            <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
          http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
          
            

            

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      --
      JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
      Professor, Education Department
      Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy 
      & Culture Coordinator,
      Peace Corps Master's International Program in 
      ESOL/Bilingual Education
      University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC) 
      1000 Hilltop Circle,
      Baltimore, MD 21250
      ph:  
        410-455-2313/2376  
      fax:   
      410-455-8947/1880
      email: crandall at umbc.edu
      www.umbc.edu/llc/
      www.umbc.edu/esol/
      www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
      

      

      

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  JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
  Professor and Director
  Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
  Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual 
  Education
  University of Maryland Baltimore County
  1000 Hilltop Circle
  Baltimore, MD 21250
  tel:  410-455-2313
  fax: 410-455-8947
  eml: crandall at umbc.edu
  
  


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From mjjerdems at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  9 15:15:52 2008
From: mjjerdems at yahoo.com (Mary Jane Jerde)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 12:15:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Assessment 1235] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: Assessment Digest,
	Vol 29, Issue 70
In-Reply-To: <D66AE1265AC9B14B9EDD2D3EDA8066F5013EA3A5@shsmail.sanford.org>
Message-ID: <394845.87161.qm@web54001.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I remember going through the same things to get my masters. 

Plus, a high percentage of students getting paid by their school district to take classes that I was in had not been out of school that long. It's a sad side effect to attempting to professionalize the profession. So many wanted their A and that was about it.  It seemed to me that ongoing education ought to be the focus. For example, one graduate class a year with follow-up through the year to ensure application. 

Thanks for listening,

Mary Jane

Gail Burnett <gburnett at sanford.org> wrote: Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
Warning: (not named).
Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more information.

Hi,

I don't know if it's too late to add another comment. I am one of those people you describe: a part-time ESL teacher with a degree in another field. Until this winter I'd never taken an education course in my life. I came in with good knowledge of English (former editor and writer) and training as an ESL literacy tutor. In our school district, adult ed teachers can be paid for workshops and in-service training, and our program has offered a lot of both. But I've been told that I haven't absorbed enough educational theory and good practices through these offerings and have decided I really need some formal education. So I'm starting to take graduate classes but it's entirely at my expense. This is a fairly high price for a part-time teacher with no benefits to pay. It rankles me a bit when I see the full-time teachers in our district taking graduate classes at district expense so they can further their skills and climb up a pay ladder that starts 15 rungs above my head. Even
 if I wanted to take Education 101, I would be paying for it myself. You could argue that these other folks took basic classes at their expense before they were hired but most of them didn't come to their teaching jobs with a wealth of real-life experience and knowledge. In other words, I paid for my BA years ago as did they; I contributed the wisdom and knowledge gained from working with the language for 25 years, and now I'm paying for further education.

This is a long way of saying: We career change teachers can offer a lot but we could use a little help, too. Like basic ESL/educational theory classes, offered close to home and at shared expense. I would sign up in a second.


-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of assessment-request at nifl.gov
Sent: Fri 2/8/2008 7:25 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: Assessment Digest, Vol 29, Issue 70
 
Send Assessment mailing list submissions to
 assessment at nifl.gov

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
 http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
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Today's Topics:

   1. [Assessment 1218] Re: (no subject) (valerie.woodard)
   2. [Assessment 1217] Re: Observation checklist (Jodi Crandall)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:29:30 -0600
From: "valerie.woodard" 
Subject: [Assessment 1218] Re: (no subject)
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" 
Message-ID:
 <4B5EE7DED9296B4A94B20684F5289B29E04790 at ADMINMAIL2.ad.hccs.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I would love to hear from the group about "professional development" challenges you face. How do we in-part learning theory to part-time staff with degrees but no educational back ground.  How do we tap into the importance of training and have staff identify with continuing professional development. It seems to me that it would be of benefit to look at the experience of the Adult Education instructors and requirement from the federal grant but local authority can make up a large part of the requirement they have adopted which does not put professional development up front?  Resources are needed to help instructors stay sharp for the students. 

 

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From macsimoin at hotmail.com  Sat Feb  9 15:23:10 2008
From: macsimoin at hotmail.com (Mary Lynn Simons)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 20:23:10 +0000
Subject: [Assessment 1236] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: Assessment Digest,
	Vol 29, Issue 70
In-Reply-To: <D66AE1265AC9B14B9EDD2D3EDA8066F5013EA3A5@shsmail.sanford.org>
References: <mailman.2859.1202516755.1030.assessment@nifl.gov>
	<D66AE1265AC9B14B9EDD2D3EDA8066F5013EA3A5@shsmail.sanford.org>
Message-ID: <BAY115-W3632D846C99A003DA9EE24BF280@phx.gbl>


Videos of good teachers teaching ESL are tremendously helpful. San Diego used to use them for new teachers and probably still does. Does anyone know where to get such videos? The main problem an inexperienced ESL teacher has is how to elicit language from students, and watching a good teacher is the best way to learn the  techniques. The biggest mistake new ESL teachers make is too much talking themselves -- usually talking about things students cannot possibly understand.

> Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 08:29:17 -0500
> From: gburnett at sanford.org
> To: assessment at nifl.gov
> Subject: [Assessment 1229]  {Dangerous Content?} RE: Assessment Digest,	Vol 29, Issue 70
> 
> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed
> Warning: (not named).
> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more information.
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I don't know if it's too late to add another comment. I am one of those people you describe: a part-time ESL teacher with a degree in another field. Until this winter I'd never taken an education course in my life. I came in with good knowledge of English (former editor and writer) and training as an ESL literacy tutor. In our school district, adult ed teachers can be paid for workshops and in-service training, and our program has offered a lot of both. But I've been told that I haven't absorbed enough educational theory and good practices through these offerings and have decided I really need some formal education. So I'm starting to take graduate classes but it's entirely at my expense. This is a fairly high price for a part-time teacher with no benefits to pay. It rankles me a bit when I see the full-time teachers in our district taking graduate classes at district expense so they can further their skills and climb up a pay ladder that starts 15 rungs above my head. Even if I wanted to take Education 101, I would be paying for it myself. You could argue that these other folks took basic classes at their expense before they were hired but most of them didn't come to their teaching jobs with a wealth of real-life experience and knowledge. In other words, I paid for my BA years ago as did they; I contributed the wisdom and knowledge gained from working with the language for 25 years, and now I'm paying for further education.
> 
> This is a long way of saying: We career change teachers can offer a lot but we could use a little help, too. Like basic ESL/educational theory classes, offered close to home and at shared expense. I would sign up in a second.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of assessment-request at nifl.gov
> Sent: Fri 2/8/2008 7:25 PM
> To: assessment at nifl.gov
> Subject: Assessment Digest, Vol 29, Issue 70
>  
> Send Assessment mailing list submissions to
> 	assessment at nifl.gov
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	assessment-request at nifl.gov
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	assessment-owner at nifl.gov
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Assessment digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. [Assessment 1218] Re: (no subject) (valerie.woodard)
>    2. [Assessment 1217] Re: Observation checklist (Jodi Crandall)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:29:30 -0600
> From: "valerie.woodard" <valerie.woodard at hccs.edu>
> Subject: [Assessment 1218] Re: (no subject)
> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
> Message-ID:
> 	<4B5EE7DED9296B4A94B20684F5289B29E04790 at ADMINMAIL2.ad.hccs.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> I would love to hear from the group about "professional development" challenges you face. How do we in-part learning theory to part-time staff with degrees but no educational back ground.  How do we tap into the importance of training and have staff identify with continuing professional development. It seems to me that it would be of benefit to look at the experience of the Adult Education instructors and requirement from the federal grant but local authority can make up a large part of the requirement they have adopted which does not put professional development up front?  Resources are needed to help instructors stay sharp for the students. 
> 
>  
> 
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

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From bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net  Sat Feb  9 21:28:03 2008
From: bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net (Bonnie Odiorne)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 18:28:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Assessment 1237] Re: Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
	Instruction--registration opens
Message-ID: <648610.64458.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Thanks, Wendy. I'm looking forward to it, and I'm sure I'll learn a great deal.


----- Original Message ----
From: Wendy Quinones <teacherwendyq at gmail.com>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2008 9:29:45 PM
Subject: [Assessment 1222] Re: Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated Instruction--registration opens


Hi Bonnie and Forrest,
I am the developer and facilitator for this course, and I'm delighted to hear that you registered, Bonnie!  I have taught transition-to-college courses as well as ABE reading and writing from low-intermediate through GED, as well as freshman comp at the community college level.  What we do in this course is applicable at all those levels, as well as in ESOL. I don't have much ESOL experience myself, but quite a few participants in similar courses I've run have been ESOL teachers and they have been able to use the concepts in wonderfully creative ways.  I think the principles of MI and DI can be used at any level and any setting, and the course is flexible enough to allow for use anywhere -- basically participants will learn principles and then use them by making a lesson plan for their own practice.  I've done several of these courses, and they are fun!
 
Hope I'll see many of you there,
Wendy Quinones

  
On Feb 8, 2008 7:33 PM, Bonnie Odiorne <bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

I am going to try the course; I just registered. As I've been following the discussion with interest, I've been very intrigued by the issue of multiple ihntelligences as they impact college transition, differentiated classrooms (from the point of view of skills levels as well as intrinsic motivation) and the increasing number of "developmental" students, regardless of their educational backgrounds. If colleges and universities could get out of the "developmental" model to a curriculum revision model that enhances instructional changes (faculty are now talking about Bloom's taxonomy as a starting point for curriculum revision), including differentiated instruction... I do this wearing several hats: while I was in adult education previously, in various ABE/ESOL programs, including tutor training (so the comments about CBOs and standards for volunteers is a very difficult topic), family, workplace, employability with technological enhancement literacy
 programs ccombining ABE and ESOL students, I am now teaching French (?!; it used to be ESOL but the university did away with its formalized program) developmental English composition, freshman college success seminars, working with a summer "bridge" program for at risk students, and I am also director of the university writing center. Writing across the curriculum, writing to learn, and multiple intelligences seemed to me to be answers to the differentiated classroom. I also identify with funding: my jobs are both part-time... and assesment (I work with the learning center to administer Accuplacer). We also have a lot of developmental problems with online students so I do writing center advising electronically....
Coincidentally, I'd been invited to facilitate an Oakland Unified Schools District ESOL teachers' retreat with a mindfulness activity (I chose walking the labyrinth) in relation to multiple intelligences, but I couldn't get the life scan fingerprinting done in time, alas. I may have some role in this program but I'm not quite sure what. In any event, when things come together like this, I tend to listen up,  so thought I needed to take advantage of the opportunity to take the course. 
Cheers, all you dedicated practitioners out there. 
Bonnie Odiorne, Ph.D. Post University Waterbury CT
----- Original Message ----
From: Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2008 1:38:48 PM
Subject: [Assessment 1194] Re: Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated Instruction--registration opens


Very interesting. Anyone going to try it?
 
Forrest
 
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Kaye Beall
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:41 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1181] Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated Instruction--registration opens
 
World Education is pleased to offer Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated Instruction as an online training. 
 
The course syllabus and registration details are attached. Contact Kaye Beall at kaye_beall at worlded.org with questions.
************************
 
Adult Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated Instruction
 
Course Dates: March 12?May 13, 2008; Online chats during Lessons 3, 4, and 5
 
Course Description
Research conducted by the National Center for the Study of Adult Learning and Literacy shows that instructional practices inspired by Multiple Intelligences (MI) theory resulted in high levels of authentic instruction and student engagement.
Integrate your understanding of Multiple Intelligences (MI) theory with the power of differentiated instruction in this facilitated, eight-session course. You'll learn how to apply MI theory and differentiate instruction for all levels of adult basic education and English for speakers of other languages. The facilitator will guide you as you develop your own MI-based lessons.
 
Objectives
Upon completion of this course you will be able to:
*Apply the theory of multiple intelligences (MI) to design learning activities that match your learning objectives
*Use varying methods of differentiated instruction (DI) that address the different skills and interests of your learners
*Apply knowledge of your own MI profile to your classroom teaching
*Produce and reflect on a lesson or unit using both MI and DI
 
Required Text:
Viens, Julie and Silja Kallenbach. Multiple Intelligences and Adult Literacy: A Sourcebook for Practitioners. (New York: Teachers College Press, 2004. Copies of the required textbook can be obtained from the publisher, Teachers College Press (TCP), the publisher at http://store.tcpress.com/0807743461.shtml. The cost is $27.95 per copy.
 
Course Format and Schedule: facilitated, online
During this eight-week course, you will engage in self-paced activities and readings, as well as asynchronous discussions with the facilitators and course participants. Three synchronous chats will be scheduled during Lessons 3, 4, and 5.
 
Syllabus: See attached PDF?AMI Course Details.
 
Course Facilitator: Wendy Qui?ones
 
Estimated Completion Time: 40 hours
 
Registration: Complete and return the attached registration form-[PDF]. Payment must be received prior to enrollment. Registration is limited to 20 participants.
 
Cancellation policy: World Education reserves the right to cancel the course if the minimum number of registrants is not met by March 4, 2008.
 
Kaye Beall
Project Director
World Education
6760 West Street
Linn Grove, IN 46711
765-717-3942
kaye_beall at worlded.org
www.worlded.org
 


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From gbundy at rmi.net  Sun Feb 10 10:40:07 2008
From: gbundy at rmi.net (Gail B)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 08:40:07 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Assessment 1238] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: Assessment Digest,
 Vol 29, Issue 70
Message-ID: <28252037.1202658007353.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

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From crandall at umbc.edu  Sun Feb 10 19:00:19 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:00:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Assessment 1239] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: Assessment Digest, Vol 29,
 Issue 70
In-Reply-To: <28252037.1202658007353.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.
	net>
References: <28252037.1202658007353.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <50176.138.88.174.8.1202688019.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>

Gail,

This is great.  Colorado is being a real leader in making it possible for
adult educators to gain recognition for their training.  What do the
credits lead to?  Are there financial incentives or a pay scale that
reflects this training?

Jodi
> <head><style>body{font-family:
> Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:9pt;background-color:
> #ffffff;color: black;}</style></head><body id="compText">Colorado State
> Department of Education now has a Literacy Instruction Authorization
> Certificate that can be issued to people who pass four of five courses
> that are offered through the community college system.&nbsp; Courses are a
> combination of online, "face", and hybrid.&nbsp; Teachers in AEFLA
> programs are required to get the certification.&nbsp; The state provides
> some assistance with scholarship.&nbsp; They have also developed a system
> for staff development credit for workshops attended at state adult
> education conferences. <br><br><br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px
> solid rgb(0, 0, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 0px;">-----Original
> Message-----
> <br>From: Mary Jane Jerde <mjjerdems at yahoo.com>
> <br>Sent: Feb 9, 2008 1:15 PM
> <br>To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
> <br>Subject: [Assessment 1235] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: Assessment
> Digest,	Vol 29, Issue 70
>
> <br><br>I remember going through the same things to get my masters.
> <br><br>Plus, a high percentage of students getting paid by their school
> district to take classes that I was in had not been out of school that
> long. It's a sad side effect to attempting to professionalize the
> profession. So many wanted their A and that was about it.&nbsp; It seemed
> to me that ongoing education ought to be the focus. For example, one
> graduate class a year with follow-up through the year to ensure
> application. <br><br>Thanks for listening,<br><br>Mary
> Jane<br><br><b><i>Gail Burnett &lt;gburnett at sanford.org&gt;</i></b>
> wrote:</assessment at nifl.gov></mjjerdems at yahoo.com><blockquote
> class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255);
> margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> Warning: This message has had one
> or more attachments removed<br>Warning: (not named).<br>Warning: Please
> read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more
> information.<br><br>Hi,<br><br>I don't know if it's too late to add
> another comment. I am one of those
>  people you describe: a part-time ESL teacher with a degree in another
> field. Until this winter I'd never taken an education course in my life.
> I came in with good knowledge of English (former editor and writer) and
> training as an ESL literacy tutor. In our school district, adult ed
> teachers can be paid for workshops and in-service training, and our
> program has offered a lot of both. But I've been told that I haven't
> absorbed enough educational theory and good practices through these
> offerings and have decided I really need some formal education. So I'm
> starting to take graduate classes but it's entirely at my expense. This
> is a fairly high price for a part-time teacher with no benefits to pay.
> It rankles me a bit when I see the full-time teachers in our district
> taking graduate classes at district expense so they can further their
> skills and climb up a pay ladder that starts 15 rungs above my head. Even
> if I wanted to take Education 101, I would be paying for it myself.
>  You could argue that these other folks took basic classes at their
> expense before they were hired but most of them didn't come to their
> teaching jobs with a wealth of real-life experience and knowledge. In
> other words, I paid for my BA years ago as did they; I contributed the
> wisdom and knowledge gained from working with the language for 25 years,
> and now I'm paying for further education.<br><br>This is a long way of
> saying: We career change teachers can offer a lot but we could use a
> little help, too. Like basic ESL/educational theory classes, offered
> close to home and at shared expense. I would sign up in a
> second.<br><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From:
> assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of
> assessment-request at nifl.gov<br>Sent: Fri 2/8/2008 7:25 PM<br>To:
> assessment at nifl.gov<br>Subject: Assessment Digest, Vol 29, Issue 70<br>
> <br>Send Assessment mailing list submissions to<br>
> assessment at nifl.gov<br><br>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide
> Web,
>  visit<br> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment<br>or, via
> email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
> assessment-request at nifl.gov<br><br>You can reach the person managing the
> list at<br> assessment-owner at nifl.gov<br><br>When replying, please edit
> your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: Contents of
> Assessment digest..."<br><br><br>Today's Topics:<br><br>   1. [Assessment
> 1218] Re: (no subject) (valerie.woodard)<br>   2. [Assessment 1217] Re:
> Observation checklist (Jodi
> Crandall)<br><br><br>----------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>Message:
> 1<br>Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:29:30 -0600<br>From: "valerie.woodard"
> <valerie.woodard at hccs.edu><br>Subject: [Assessment 1218] Re: (no
> subject)<br>To: "The Assessment Discussion List"
> <assessment at nifl.gov><br>Message-ID:<br>
> &lt;4B5EE7DED9296B4A94B20684F5289B29E04790 at ADMINMAIL2.ad.hccs.edu&gt;<br>Content-Type:
> text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br><br>I would love to
>  hear from the group about "professional development" challenges you face.
> How do we in-part learning theory to part-time staff with degrees but no
> educational back ground.  How do we tap into the importance of training
> and have staff identify with continuing professional development. It
> seems to me that it would be of benefit to look at the experience of the
> Adult Education instructors and requirement from the federal grant but
> local authority can make up a large part of the requirement they have
> adopted which does not put professional development up front?  Resources
> are needed to help instructors stay sharp for the students. <br><br>
> <br><br>This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
> addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the
> system manager. This message contains confidential information and is
> intended only for the individual named. If you are not
>  the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this
> e-mail.<br>This is a message from the MailScanner E-Mail Virus Protection
> Service<br>----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>The
> original e-mail attachment "winmail.dat"<br>was believed to be infected
> by a virus and has been replaced by this warning<br>message.<br><br>At
> Sat Feb  9 08:30:02 2008 the virus scanner said:<br>   Could not parse
> Outlook Rich Text attachment<br><br>-- <br>Postmaster<br>University of
> Maine System Information Technology
> Services<br>www.maine.edu/system/unet/<br>-------------------------------<br>National
> Institute for Literacy<br>Assessment mailing
> list<br>Assessment at nifl.gov<br>To unsubscribe or change your subscription
> settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment<br>Email delivered to
> mjjerdems at yahoo.com<br></assessment at nifl.gov></valerie.woodard at hccs.edu></blockquote><br><p>
>
>       </p><hr size="1">Never miss a thing.  <a target="_blank"
> href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51438/*http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs">
> Make Yahoo your homepage.</a>
>
> </blockquote></body>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
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> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>


-- 
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html





From crandall at umbc.edu  Sun Feb 10 19:02:33 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:02:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Assessment 1240] Re: Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
 Instruction--registration opens
In-Reply-To: <648610.64458.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <648610.64458.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <50180.138.88.174.8.1202688153.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>

Wendy,

I agree that the concept of multiple intelligences can work well with
adult English Language Leaners.  Given the linguistic and cultural
diversity of ELL students, ESL/ESOL teachers almost have to prepare
lessons that appeal to different learning styles or intelligences.  I know
everyone will get a great deal from your course.

Jodi
> Thanks, Wendy. I'm looking forward to it, and I'm sure I'll learn a great
> deal.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Wendy Quinones <teacherwendyq at gmail.com>
> To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
> Sent: Friday, February 8, 2008 9:29:45 PM
> Subject: [Assessment 1222] Re: Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
> Instruction--registration opens
>
>
> Hi Bonnie and Forrest,
> I am the developer and facilitator for this course, and I'm delighted to
> hear that you registered, Bonnie!  I have taught transition-to-college
> courses as well as ABE reading and writing from low-intermediate through
> GED, as well as freshman comp at the community college level.  What we do
> in this course is applicable at all those levels, as well as in ESOL. I
> don't have much ESOL experience myself, but quite a few participants in
> similar courses I've run have been ESOL teachers and they have been able
> to use the concepts in wonderfully creative ways.  I think the principles
> of MI and DI can be used at any level and any setting, and the course is
> flexible enough to allow for use anywhere -- basically participants will
> learn principles and then use them by making a lesson plan for their own
> practice.  I've done several of these courses, and they are fun!
>
> Hope I'll see many of you there,
> Wendy Quinones
>
>
> On Feb 8, 2008 7:33 PM, Bonnie Odiorne <bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> I am going to try the course; I just registered. As I've been following
> the discussion with interest, I've been very intrigued by the issue of
> multiple ihntelligences as they impact college transition, differentiated
> classrooms (from the point of view of skills levels as well as intrinsic
> motivation) and the increasing number of "developmental" students,
> regardless of their educational backgrounds. If colleges and universities
> could get out of the "developmental" model to a curriculum revision model
> that enhances instructional changes (faculty are now talking about Bloom's
> taxonomy as a starting point for curriculum revision), including
> differentiated instruction... I do this wearing several hats: while I was
> in adult education previously, in various ABE/ESOL programs, including
> tutor training (so the comments about CBOs and standards for volunteers is
> a very difficult topic), family, workplace, employability with
> technological enhancement literacy
>  programs ccombining ABE and ESOL students, I am now teaching French (?!;
> it used to be ESOL but the university did away with its formalized
> program) developmental English composition, freshman college success
> seminars, working with a summer "bridge" program for at risk students,
> and I am also director of the university writing center. Writing across
> the curriculum, writing to learn, and multiple intelligences seemed to me
> to be answers to the differentiated classroom. I also identify with
> funding: my jobs are both part-time... and assesment (I work with the
> learning center to administer Accuplacer). We also have a lot of
> developmental problems with online students so I do writing center
> advising electronically....
> Coincidentally, I'd been invited to facilitate an Oakland Unified Schools
> District ESOL teachers' retreat with a mindfulness activity (I chose
> walking the labyrinth) in relation to multiple intelligences, but I
> couldn't get the life scan fingerprinting done in time, alas. I may have
> some role in this program but I'm not quite sure what. In any event, when
> things come together like this, I tend to listen up,  so thought I needed
> to take advantage of the opportunity to take the course.
> Cheers, all you dedicated practitioners out there.
> Bonnie Odiorne, Ph.D. Post University Waterbury CT
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net>
> To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
> Sent: Friday, February 8, 2008 1:38:48 PM
> Subject: [Assessment 1194] Re: Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
> Instruction--registration opens
>
>
> Very interesting. Anyone going to try it?
>
> Forrest
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
> Behalf Of Kaye Beall
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:41 PM
> To: assessment at nifl.gov
> Subject: [Assessment 1181] Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
> Instruction--registration opens
>
> World Education is pleased to offer Multiple Intelligences and
> Differentiated Instruction as an online training.
>
> The course syllabus and registration details are attached. Contact Kaye
> Beall at kaye_beall at worlded.org with questions.
> ************************
>
> Adult Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated Instruction
>
> Course Dates: March 12?May 13, 2008; Online chats during Lessons 3, 4, and
> 5
>
> Course Description
> Research conducted by the National Center for the Study of Adult Learning
> and Literacy shows that instructional practices inspired by Multiple
> Intelligences (MI) theory resulted in high levels of authentic instruction
> and student engagement.
> Integrate your understanding of Multiple Intelligences (MI) theory with
> the power of differentiated instruction in this facilitated, eight-session
> course. You'll learn how to apply MI theory and differentiate instruction
> for all levels of adult basic education and English for speakers of other
> languages. The facilitator will guide you as you develop your own MI-based
> lessons.
>
> Objectives
> Upon completion of this course you will be able to:
> *Apply the theory of multiple intelligences (MI) to design learning
> activities that match your learning objectives
> *Use varying methods of differentiated instruction (DI) that address the
> different skills and interests of your learners
> *Apply knowledge of your own MI profile to your classroom teaching
> *Produce and reflect on a lesson or unit using both MI and DI
>
> Required Text:
> Viens, Julie and Silja Kallenbach. Multiple Intelligences and Adult
> Literacy: A Sourcebook for Practitioners. (New York: Teachers College
> Press, 2004. Copies of the required textbook can be obtained from the
> publisher, Teachers College Press (TCP), the publisher at
> http://store.tcpress.com/0807743461.shtml. The cost is $27.95 per copy.
>
> Course Format and Schedule: facilitated, online
> During this eight-week course, you will engage in self-paced activities
> and readings, as well as asynchronous discussions with the facilitators
> and course participants. Three synchronous chats will be scheduled during
> Lessons 3, 4, and 5.
>
> Syllabus: See attached PDF?AMI Course Details.
>
> Course Facilitator: Wendy Qui?ones
>
> Estimated Completion Time: 40 hours
>
> Registration: Complete and return the attached registration form-[PDF].
> Payment must be received prior to enrollment. Registration is limited to
> 20 participants.
>
> Cancellation policy: World Education reserves the right to cancel the
> course if the minimum number of registrants is not met by March 4, 2008.
>
> Kaye Beall
> Project Director
> World Education
> 6760 West Street
> Linn Grove, IN 46711
> 765-717-3942
> kaye_beall at worlded.org
> www.worlded.org
>
>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to teacherwendyq at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to
> bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net-------------------------------
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> Assessment mailing list
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> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>


-- 
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html





From crandall at umbc.edu  Sun Feb 10 19:10:21 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:10:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Assessment 1241] Re: Observation checklist
In-Reply-To: <677084.22455.qm@web54001.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <677084.22455.qm@web54001.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <50199.138.88.174.8.1202688621.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>

Mary Jane,

Thanks for this clear answer.  It's great that you are able to use both --
and I can see the benefits of doing so.

It would be interesting to hear from others who use more than one test,
not only why they use it, but also how they are able to do so.

Jodi
> Practically, because I am able to. We have the trained staff. It is good
> for them to all use the skills.
>
> Theoretically, because one test is not sufficient assessment. Also, CASAS
> is a listening test. BEST is a speaking test.
>
> Financially, because I never know which test will produce the better score
> for reporting.
>
> Mary Jane
>
> Jodi Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu> wrote: Mary Jane,
>
> Why are you using two oral post-tests?
>
>
> Jodi
> On Feb 8, 2008, at 3:43 PM, Mary Jane Jerde wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> The focus of class is speaking, so I don't give the students any scale
> score reading or writing tests. Giving two oral post-tests takes enough
> time.
>
> For class I do test the various skills.
>
> Mary Jane
>
> Jodi Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu> wrote: Mary Jane,
>
> Thanks for sharing your experiences.
>
>
> Do you also use a reading and/or writing test at any of the adult ESOL
> levels?
>
>
> Jodi
> On Feb 7, 2008, at 7:18 PM, Mary Jane Jerde wrote:
>
> As an ESL instructor who has used BEST Plus for pre-test and post-test
> scoring in grant funded classes, I have found the test to be an accurate
> gauge of student placement and growth in English.
>
> One advantage is that I have been able to test new students myself and
> have post-testing done by various other ABE or ESL instructors. They were
> all trained by BEST Plus staff. Before a test session the examiner and I
> go through a review. I have sat with the examiners for initial post-test
> sessions to have them gain confidence in their abilities. But I had faith
> that a "subjective" test could be accurate because I had used BEST for
> seven years in a refugee program and knew it's value for placement.
>
> The program does a fine job of adjusting level of difficulty based on
> feedback from responses.
>
> Is one test ever enough? No. But I have enjoyed the benefit of being able
> to use both CASAS and BEST Plus in smaller community programs.
>
> Mary Jane Jerde
> ESL Instructor
> Howard Community College
>
>
>
> "Cohen, Jonathan" <Jonathan.Cohen at dol.state.nj.us> wrote:             Good
> reply.
>   Jon
>
>   Jonathan Cohen
>   Workforce Readiness & Literacy
>   NJ Dept. of Labor & Workforce Development
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>   From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
> On Behalf Of Michelle Ueland
>  Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 4:10 PM
>  To: The Assessment Discussion List
>  Subject: [Assessment 1158] Re: Observation checklist
>
>
>
>   Dear Assessment Listserv Members,
>   It is with great interest that we have been following this discussion
> regarding one of our assessments, BEST Plus, and its use for oral
> proficiency meaurement on initial placement and learner progress.
>   As other assessments have been brought into the discussion, we would
> like to provide the following clarification, taken verbatim from the
> DLIELC Website: http://www.dlielc.org/testing/ALCPT.html : "DLIELC
> conducts English language proficiency testing using the Oral Proficiency
> Interview (OPI), a face-to-face or telephonic interview, and the English
> Comprehension Level (ECL) test, a multiple choice test of listening and
> reading comprehension. (The ECL test is provided to authorized US
> Government users only.) DLIELC also makes available the American
> Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT) for English language programs
> conducted outside of DLIELC. Achievement testing of American Language
> Course (ALC) objectives is conducted using book quizzes and performance
> tests, which can be obtained with the course materials."
>   According to the April 2007 edition of the Handbook for the American
> Language Course Placement Test (ALCPT): "The most important
> consideration under the general topic of test security is test
> compromise. One of the easiest ways to compromise any test is through
> its inappropriate use." Given the definitions above, there are many
> reasons to question the appropriateness of using any of the above
> mentioned tests with the adult ESL population in the U.S.
>   Currently, BEST Plus is the only assessment developed specifically for
> use with adult English language learners in educational programs, which
> simultaneously measures adults' listening and speaking skills. As the
> BEST Plus Level Gain study shows (
> http://www.cal.org/resources/digest/levelgain.html ), more hours equals
> more gains, whether that be during one academic year (intensity of
> instruction) or over an adult's lifetime (persistence as a learner).
> Furthermore, this study also shows that not only is BEST Plus
> appropriate for initial placement, but it is also a good measure of
> student progress. In many ways, BEST Plus brings the knowledge and
> design of other oral proficiency instruments to the field of adult ESL
> in a highly accessible manner. Test administrations are relatively
> inexpensive when compared to the high cost of other oral proficiency
> assessments, the results accurate and immediate, and for the first time,
> instructors are able to confirm many of their "gut
>  instinct" and "handshake" evaluations based on their expertise and
> familiarity with the adult ESL population in a standardized manner that
> is scored by a common rubric.
>   In regard to test administrator training, another advantage to BEST Plus
> is that ESL instructors are able to engage in professional development
> in the area of proficiency assessment. Across the country, responses to
> BEST Plus training are overwhelmingly positive. Our core of trainers
> does fantastic work to educate practitioners about the differences
> between being a good teacher and being a good standardized test
> administrator, in addition to training test administrators to administer
> and score BEST Plus. Furthermore, there are several opportunities for
> previously trained test administrators to recalibrate their scoring
> accuracy through the use of the Scoring Refresher Toolkit within their
> local programs and states. In this way, programs can confirm their
> inter-rater reliability, as CAL has also done during the development and
> design of BEST Plus. We would encourage anyone interested in finding out
> more about the design of BEST Plus and its high rate of inter-rater
>  reliability to read the BEST Plus Technical Manual.
>   Finally, we hope that programs using BEST Plus continue to see the
> benefits of providing adults ESL learners with data regarding their oral
> proficiency level and progress. Particularly adults with many
> commitments need this type of information offered at their convenience
> locally by their service providers. By knowing their levels, program
> directors and instructors can to continue to make instructional and
> programatic decisions based on learner needs and to assist the learners
> in their own educational goal setting.
>   Michelle M. Ueland
>   Adult ESL Assessments
>   Center for Applied Linguistics
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>   From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
> On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
>  Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:27 PM
>  To: The Assessment Discussion List
>  Subject: [Assessment 1157] Re: Observation checklist
>   Ted and all,
>
>
>     I imagine others would like to have access to the ALCPT information as
> well.
>
>
>
>     I have also given the OPI, not as a certified interviewer but with a
> lot of training in its use.  I use it  as part of information
> gathering in reviewing programs overseas, to see what various levels
> of instruction correspond to in proficiency terms. I haven't used it
> with adult ESL population.  Like Mary Margaret, I have found that it
> takes about the same amount of time.
>
>
>
>     Do others have the same concerns about the BEST Plus?
>
>
>
>     Jodi
>
>
>
>     On Feb 7, 2008, at 12:58 PM, Ted Klein wrote:
>
>           Jodi,
>
>
>
>     My wife, Mary Margaret, was a certified OPI interviewer at DLI. She
> says that the average interview was 20 minutes. This depends on the
> interviewee's level. Two people interview. The higher the level, the
> longer the test. It's a really good test. The bad news is that there
> is/was something like a 40% failure rate for certification of
> interviewer among instructors and staff. Some of these people were
> pretty sharp, but doing it is an art and a science. There is no
> question the OPI is the state-of-the-art. Even experienced
> interviewers get frequent tune-ups. I believe that the OPI scoring
> system with the + indicating 60% of the next higher level COULD be
> simplified and adapted to adult education. However, if progress has to
> be shown as often as now, real proficiency doesn't change that fast
> and could cost programs $ when they submit their paperwork.  IF it
> were done after maybe 120 class hours, there may be significant
> changes.
>
>
>
>     Although I got the training, I bribe other people to do the BEST Plus
> on my students, including Mary Margaret! I think that it's fine for
> placement, but really doesn't work for "progress" for a number of
> reasons. Even when people are trained to use it properly, there is
> enormous difference, even in how the interviewers expresses themselves
> orally and make scores. If we have to continue using the BEST tests,
> another thing that I would like to see is small teams of really good
> and consistent interviewers that do the tests on all of the students.
> A weak measurement system is the Achilles Heel in Adult Education.
>
>
>
>     I would prefer the use of the American Language Course Placement Test
> (ALCPT). If you will give me an e-mail address that is convenient, I
> will send you more information on it from my old workshops. It's
> cheaper, quicker, and quite accurate. I totally agree with you that
> teacher wisdom is also a good way to determine where and when the
> student should move on. Unfortunately, many managers don't trust the
> peasants! There are also several good ways to place people that don't
> involve their ability to read the ALCPT.
>
>
>
>     I put out an Adult Education/ESL Newsletter once in a while. I
> recently did an article on the OPI, which may answer more of the
> questions. Here it is:
>
>
>
>
>
>     Adult Education/ESL News Letter; the Federal Oral Proficiency
> Interview   Jan. 8, 2008    Ted Klein
>
>
>
>       For many years the Foreign Service Institute (FSI) of the United
> States conducted interviews of foreign language proficiency to
> measure the understanding and production of languages acquired by
> their staff. This test was also used by some other federal agencies
> and was adapted by some civilian language programs as a measure of
> their graduates. This test expressed performance using scores
> ranging from zero to five. For decades it was the best game in town.
> The problem is that both the interview techniques and scoring
> systems in the FSI exam were not as objective as needed for some
> persons, whose jobs required very specific scores that would be
> important to accomplishment of their missions.
>
>
>
>     Language proficiency testing needs have always depended on the
> terminal objectives of the students. In most cases, a well-designed
> comprehension test is adequate and may be used for language class
> placement, graduation criteria, determination of readiness for certain
> jobs, training, or education, etc. During my twenty years with the
> Defense Language Institute  English Language  Center, all students
> were tested with the English Comprehension Level (ECL) test, which was
> developed as an overall measure of listening and reading skills. This
> test was developed and maintained by individuals whose primary
> expertise was in valid measurement procedures assisted by a team of
> persons who developed multiple choice test items that were based more
> on their language expertise than math. Scores were in a sense
> arbitrary and didn't represent a "percentage" of anything. However the
> use of an ECL test to determine readiness for international military
> personnel from many countries to
>  participate in U.S.military training was considered a very reliable
> source of measuring English-language readiness. The test measured
> listening and reading skills and was "loaded" with numerous structural,
> vocabulary and phonological factors. It was multiple choice and could be
> administered in an hour to a large group of students. Students went on
> from DLIELC for training as pilots, staff college attendees, electronics
> specialists, medical personnel, etc. and enjoyed a very low failure rate
> due to language factors. Often, the comprehension scores tended to
> reflect competence in spoken English, because most of these students had
> acquired English in a balanced environment of listening, speaking,
> reading and writing skills. The DLIELC program itself was fairly uniform
> in which all American Language Course materials were systematically
> provided for specific lengths of time to teaching staff trained to use
> specific methodologies. DLIELC students normally start their training in
>  their home countries and later go to Lackland Air Force Base in San
> Antonio to finish general English when their ECL scores meet
> predetermined criteria to continue to continue on to study specialized
> terminology.
>
>
>
>     In the 1980's a gentleman from the Central Intelligence Agency was
> tasked with the production of a more objective oral language
> measurement system than the FSI exam, with truly meaningful scores and
> criteria. He accomplished that mission and the new Oral Proficiency
> Interview (OPI) examination was designed. That's the good news! The
> bad news is that it is both an art and a science to administer. A copy
> of the criteria and rating factors is below. It can be found at the
> DLIELC website at http://www.dlielc.org/testing/opi_profile.html  This
> OPI took care of the majority of the problems with the older FSI exam,
> including a very tight and variable interview system in which persons
> were taken to their highest level of oral communication. Both
> listening and speaking skills receive a score. The chart below
> reflects whole number judgments with a performance-based description
> of what the person being tested can do with the language. The problem
> is that even after two weeks of
>  training persons to administer the test, there is a rather high failure
> rate among tester candidates. At one time potential interviewer failures
> rates were as high as 40%. Tests are administered by pairs of persons who
> have to agree on a score. I have seen persons with graduate degrees in
> linguistics fail to become certified interviewers and persons with much
> less technical expertise succeed and become very competent certified
> interviewers. The OPI is now used in numerous programs throughout the
> military, intelligence and diplomatic communities. It is NOT used in
> place of other valid testing instruments. It is reserved as a supplement
> for persons in which a known language production level is required. This
> may include persons who will be air traffic controllers or pilots in
> which verbal communication skills can be critical.
>
>
>
>     The ROTC programs at the University of Puerto Rico require OPI scores
> for their cadets who become officers in the U.S. military
> establishment. They also have required ECL scores, and candidates must
> also be verbally competent in spoken English to get their commissions
> and succeed in adequate communication for their jobs in the military.
> The required score to enroll in the ROTC program is an ECL of 75 and
> an OPI score of 2/1+. One year later the required ECL score is 80 with
> a 2/2 OPI. To be commissioned in the  U.S. Military the required ECL
> is 90 and the required OPI is 2+/2. The first number (2+) reflects
> listening comprehension and the second number reflects speaking
> ability. When we include the + (plus) designation, this means that the
> candidate performs at the next higher level at least 60% of the time.
> Therefore, if we go from 0 (no competence) to five (educated native
> speaker competence) there are eleven possible levels including the
> pluses. The difficult part
>  for most interviewers is reaching the candidates' real levels, measuring
> objectively, and having each interview so different from the last one
> that the possibility of compromise through information sharing is very
> unlikely. An ECL score of 90 is equivalent to a TOEFL score of 550, which
> is adequate for an international student to get into many American
> universities. The American Language Course Proficiency Test (ALCPT) is
> made from expired ECL tests and can be made available to civilian
> institutions.
>
>
>
>     Why am I telling you about all of this? I was in management work at
> DLIELC when the OPI system was introduced and never had reason to
> become a certified interviewer. However, what I find exciting is that
> the OPI Rating Factor Grid below describes the natural sequence in
> which our ESL students acquire English. It is a recapitulation of the
> entire never-ending process of getting a new language. I'm guessing
> that average competent foreign language majors in a good university
> would graduate with a 3/3 OPI score in their target languages. The
> numbers in the OPI can only hint at how long and complicated a process
> we have to go through to really be truly functional in a second
> language. For travelling or living in another country for a while,
> 2/1+ is a very reasonable goal. The chart should give ESL instructors
> strong insight into both teaching objectives and what their students
> are going through.
>
>
>
>     There is a short general article on my website about language testing
> at
>
>      http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/lang_tests.html
>
>
>
>
>
>     Ted
>
>
>            Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>    Independent Consultant in Language
>           and Intercultural Training
>                14456 Agarita Road
>            Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>               Phone:512-266-1801
>                taklein at austin.rr.com
>              www.tedklein-ESL.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>     OPI  RATING  FACTOR  GRID
>
>
>       Interactive Comprehension
>       Structural Control  Texts Produced      Lexical Control
>       Delivery
>       Sociolinguistic Competence
>       Global Tasks and Functions
>       0+
>          The individual   understands a number of short, memorized
> utterances in areas of immediate   needs; frequent, long pauses
> and repeated requests for repetition.
>
>          No control. Can only   use memorized structures.
>
>       Individual   words and phrases.
>
>          Memorized words and   phrases related to immediate survival
> needs.
>
>          Even in memorized   speech, stress, intonation, tone usually
> quite faulty.
>
>          Severely limited.    Any knowledge of cultural appropriateness
> has a nonlinguistic source
>
>          Can make statements   and ask questions using memorized material.
>
>       1
>          A native speaker   must often use slowed speech, repetition,
> paraphrase, or a combination of   these to be understood by this
> individual.  Misunderstandings are frequent,   but the individual
> is able to ask for help and to verify comprehension of   native
> speech in face-to-face interaction.
>
>          Structural accuracy   is random or severely limited.  Almost
> every utterance has errors in basic   structures.  Time concepts
> are vague.  Can formulate some questions.
>
>       Discrete sentences.
>
>          Very limited.    Covers courtesy expressions, introductions,
> identification, personal and   accommodation needs, daily
> routine.
>
>          Often speaks with   great difficulty. Pronunciation, stress,
> intonation generally poor.
>
>          Uses greetings and   courtesy expressions.  Can interact with
> native speakers used to dealing with   non-natives.
>
>          Can create   sentences; begin, maintain, and close short
> conversations by asking and   answering simple questions; satisfy
> simple daily needs.
>
>       2
>          The individual can get the gist of most   everyday conversations,
> but has some difficulty understanding native speakers   in
> situations that require a specialized or sophisticated knowledge.
>  (May   require a native speaker to adjust to his/her limitations
> in some way).
>
>          Discourse is   minimally cohesive.  Grammatical structures are
> usually not very elaborate   and not thoroughly controlled;
> errors are frequent.  Simple structure and   basic grammatical
> relations are typically controlled.
>
>       Full   paragraphs.
>
>          Sufficient to   discuss high frequency concrete topics such as
> work, family, personal   background and interests, travel,
> current events.  Imprecise for less common   topics.
>
>          Speaks with   confidence but not facility.  Can usually be
> understood by those not used to   dealing with non-natives.
>
>          Satisfies routine   social demands and limited work requirements.
>  Can interact with native   speakers not used to dealing with
> non-natives; native speakers may have to   adjust to limitations.
>
>          Can describe people,   places, and things; narrate current, past,
> and future activities in full   paragraphs; state facts; give
> instructions or directions; ask and answer   questions in the
> work place; deal with non-routine daily situations.
>
>       3
>          In face-to-face   conversation with natives speaking the standard
> dialect at a normal rate of   speech, comprehension is quite
> complete.  Although cultural references,   proverbs, and the
> implications of nuances and idiom may not be fully   understood,
> the individual can easily repair the conversation.
>
>          Effectively combines   structure and vocabulary to convey
> meaning. Discourse is cohesive.  Use of   structural devices is
> flexible and elaborate.  Errors occur in low frequency   and
> highly complex structures; but structural inaccuracy rarely
> causes   misunderstanding.
>
>       Extended discourse.
>
>          Broad enough for   effective formal and informal conversations on
> practical, social, and   professional topics.  Can convey
> abstract concepts.
>
>          Speaks readily and   fills pauses suitably.  Pronunciation may be
> obviously foreign. Flaws in   stress, intonation, pitch rarely
> disturb the native speaker.
>
>          Uses cultural   references.  When errors are made, can easily
> repair the conversation.
>
>          Can converse   extensively in formal and informal situations;
> discuss abstract topics;   support opinions; hypothesize; deal
> with unfamiliar topics and situations;   clarify points.
>
>       4
>          Can understand   native speakers of the standard and other major
> dialects in  essentially any   face-to-face interaction.  Can
> understand the details and ramifications of   concepts that are
> culturally or conceptually different from his/her own.
> Understands shifts of both subject matter and tone.
>
>          Organizes discourse   well, using appropriate rhetorical devices
> and high level discourse structures.
>
>       Speeches,   lectures, debates,
>
>       conference   discussions.
>
>          Precise for   representational purposes within personal and
> professional experience.  Can   elaborate concepts freely; choose
> appropriate words to convey nuances of   meaning.
>
>          Speaks effortlessly   and smoothly, but would seldom be perceived
> as a native speaker.
>
>          Uses and   understands details and ramifications of target
> cultural references. Can set   and shift the tone of exchanges
> with a variety of native speakers.
>
>          Can tailor language   to fit the audience; counsel; persuade;
> represent an official point of view;   negotiate; advocate a
> position at length; interpret informally.
>
>       5
>          (No gaps in   comprehension, including all details and nuances.)
>
>          Functionally   equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated
> native speaker.
>
>       All texts controlled   by a highly articulate, well-educated native
> speaker.
>
>          Breadth of   vocabulary and idiom equivalent to that of a highly
> articulate, well-educated   native speaker.
>
>          Functionally equivalent   to a highly articulate, well-educated
> native speaker of a standard dialect.
>
>          Speech reflects the   cultural standards of country where
> language is natively spoken.
>
>          Functionally   equivalent to a highly articulate, well-educated
> native speaker.
>
>        DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03 (Reverse)
>
>        OPI    PERFORMANCE  PROFILE         RATERS
>
>          DATE
>
>          Check One:
>
>          C
>
>          S
>
>
>          ENTRY
>
>          Mid
>
>       Exit
>
>          SCN/TEL OPI CODE
>
>          RANK/NAME
>
>          CY
>
>          GRAD DATE
>
>          SET CODE
>
>          TEACHER/ROOM NO.
>
>          VERIFICATION
>
>       Interactive Comprehension      Structural   Control / Texts Produced
>      Lexical Control
>
>
>
>       Delivery
>       Sociolinguistic Competence
>       Global Tasks and Functions
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>            DLIELC FORM 1025.9(A), MAR 03
>
>
>
>
>
>
>        ----- Original Message -----
>
>
>       From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
>
>     To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>
>     Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:45 AM
>
>     Subject: [Assessment 1149] Re: Observation checklist
>
>
>
>
>   Ted,
>
>  Did you use an oral proficiency interview at the Defense Language
>  Institute?  If so, how log did it take to administer to each student?  I
>  think time is a real barrier to most adult ESL/ESOL programs.  Thus, they
>  use tests that can be administered to students as a group and easily
>  evaluated.
>
>  For some college programs for international students, a whole range of
>  tests are used for placement, including a writing sample, a reading test,
>  and an oral interview.  Clearly that's more possible with smaller numbers
>  of students who are also paying for the classes.
>
>  What do you think is needed in the way of tests?  In Passing the Torch,
>  Forrest and I point to assessment as a major issue facing all the
> colleges
>  we studied.  We recommend the development of a test of all four skills
>  that, if possible, could be administered and scored in a reasonable
> amount
>  of time.
>
>  Have you tried the BEST Plus test?  What has been your experience with
>  that test?
>
>  I agree that for placement at literacy levels, a simple test developed by
>  a program might be sufficient.
>
>  I also think that for progress through the levels, student achievement in
>  the previous class, as judged by the instructor ("professional wisdom"),
>  is still the best determiner of whether a student is ready to go to the
>  next level.
>
>  Jodi
>
>
>  > Jodi,
>  >
>  > Same here! As long as the BEST Test is used to show gains, I'm afraid
> that
>  > there isn't much chance that REAL gains could be charted and compared.
> It
>  > is used too often to measure progress and is not as good for that
> purpose
>  > as one would hope. Really valid proficiency tests are the only way to
>  > prove the point. Achievement tests don't tell much in terms of overall
>  > progress. I would also guess that it would take a minimum of 120 hours
> of
>  > solid training to have a measureable level with any test that one could
>  > play numbers with. Other factors including attendance, etc. would have
> to
>  > be factored in. Adults have families and jobs in the way of total
>  > dedication to attendance. Also, one would have to have a test in which
>  > human judgment would play a small role. The BEST is fine for its
> original
>  > purpose, which was to place persons with others at their same levels of
>  > communication. Good measurement is the only way to prove anything. I
> often
>  > rely on plain old gut instincts to figure how things are really going.
> I
>  > know that's not very scientific.
>  >
>  > Cheers,  Ted
>  > www.tedklein-ESL.com
>  >
>  >
>  > ----- Original Message -----
>  > From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
>  > To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>  > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:05 PM
>  > Subject: [Assessment 1138] Re: Observation checklist
>  >
>  >
>  > Hi, Ted.  Glad to make contact again.
>  >
>  > I definitely agree that smaller classes are more likely to bring
> learner
>  > gains, especially in language, since students will have more
> opportunity
>  > to speak when there are fewer students.  I didn't know about the DLI
>  > policy, but it is a good one.  The problem with adult ESL classes, I
> fear,
>  > is that there is such limited money available that programs would find
> it
>  > difficult to keep class size to these numbers.
>  >
>  > Has anyone tried to reduce class size and chart the learning gains?  If
>  > so, please share with us all.  It might be that this would be a good
>  > investment.  If students in smaller classes make faster gains, then
> there
>  > would be more spaces available as these students transitioned to other
>  > classes or the workforce.
>  >
>  > Jodi
>  >
>  > Hi Jodi,
>  >>
>  >> Greetings from Lake Travis in Texas. We met a couple of times in the
>  >> past,
>  >> I think at least once when you visited the Defense Language Institute
>  >> English Language Center in San Antonio and at TESOL. The reason I
>  >> mention
>  >> DLI is that it represents a language program with little leeway to
> fail.
>  >> I
>  >> spent 20 years from 1968-1988 with them. Their mission was/is to train
>  >> allied and friendly military personnel worldwide in general and
>  >> specialized English. Most students start ESL in their home countries
>  >> with
>  >> DLIELC personnel advising, and in some cases teaching, in these
> overseas
>  >> military language centers. It may still be the largest language
> program
>  >> in
>  >> the world. Students after reaching certain levels go to Lackland Air
>  >> Force
>  >> Base in San Antonio, complete their general English, usually go
> through
>  >> specialized terminology and then on to whatever training their country
>  >> needs with the U.S. military. Students have run the full gamut from
>  >> recruits and NCO's up to generals and admirals. This is a very tightly
>  >> organized "well-packaged" language program with predictable training
>  >> times
>  >> and results.
>  >>
>  >> Here's why I bring you this background. The rule of thumb while I was
> at
>  >> at DLI on class sizes was 8 students optimum and 10 maximum. This was
>  >> rarely broken. However, once in a while a higher headquarters' bean
>  >> counter would calculate that if a mere two or three students could be
>  >> added to a class, voila, look at the money we would save! This money
>  >> came
>  >> both from foreign governments and Uncle Sam. DLI would argue and then
>  >> try
>  >> it, I believe several times over the years. However, in an
> organization
>  >> that has a very effective testing system; both achievement and
>  >> proficiency, it was soon noticed that the scores were going down, just
>  >> enough so that they could prove that no money was being saved on
> teacher
>  >> salaries and other expenses. I spent three years with the Royal Thai
>  >> Navy
>  >> for DLI as language training advisor and remember having to twist arms
>  >> with the RTN Navy Education Department with the same problem. They
>  >> wanted
>  >> 15 in a class.
>  >>
>  >> Here's what I suggest. I accept these numbers and know during my last
>  >> eight years of teaching adult immigrants that my best classes have
>  >> consistently been smaller. My students average around 9-11. If an
>  >> organization is stuck with a low budget, make the hours of training
> per
>  >> week lower, but keep the class sizes within 10 or so students. Fewer
>  >> hours
>  >> of really effective training are certainly better than large classes
>  >> where
>  >> the student attention level and collegiality are reduced. I remember
>  >> Mary
>  >> Finocchiaro saying years ago that she didn't care how many students
> were
>  >> in her classroom, she would teach them! Unfortunately, most of us just
>  >> aren't THAT dynamic.
>  >>
>  >> Cheers,  Ted
>  >> www.tedklein-ESL.com
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> ----- Original Message -----
>  >> From: "JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall" <crandall at umbc.edu>
>  >> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>  >> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:23 PM
>  >> Subject: [Assessment 1125] Re: Observation checklist
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> Usha,
>  >>
>  >> I'm not sure where Ted came up with that number.  Ted, is it your
>  >> experience that with more than 10 students, learning decreases?  If
> so,
>  >> how do you fund that number?  I think a lot of people would be
>  >> interested
>  >> in ways to decrease class size.
>  >>
>  >> It's more typical to have larger classes because of the funding
>  >> constraints you talk about.  With more students, it becomes more
>  >> important
>  >> to involve them in activities in which all get to participate, which
>  >> means
>  >> less teacher talk and more student interaction.  But even small
> classes
>  >> need that.
>  >>
>  >> What do others feel about the "ideal class size"?
>  >>
>  >> You have also identified some of the major reasons adults drop out of
>  >> classes (or opt out, only to return at a later date).  Do any of you
>  >> keep
>  >> records of your students that would identify those who do return?  Do
>  >> you
>  >> have any idea of whether they have tried to continue learning English
>  >> outside of the classroom and how they did this?  I don't know of any
>  >> research about adult English Language Learners in this area, but there
>  >> is
>  >> an ongoing study by Stephen Reder and others at Portland State
>  >> University
>  >> following adult literacy level students for several years.  They have
>  >> identified some ways in which adults continue learning outside of the
>  >> classroom and also that some of these learners come back to classes
>  >> after
>  >> being out of them for some time.
>  >>
>  >> Providing support services is always a challenge.  Have any of you
> been
>  >> able to partner with other organizations to reduce the cost of these
>  >> services to your program?   What kinds of partnerships have been most
>  >> effective? If you teach in a community college, have your students had
>  >> access to the various support services provided to other students?
>  >>
>  >> Several of you have talked about the differences in progress made by
>  >> students with more advanced education and those who are at literacy
>  >> level.
>  >>  Because literacy level students take longer in making progress, most
>  >> programs provide separate classes for literacy level students and
>  >> literate
>  >> beginners.  Those learners with limited formal schooling and literacy
>  >> will
>  >> need more time to make progress. I'm going to ask Forrest to talk
> about
>  >> what he and Steve Spurling and Sharon Seymour found out about
>  >> persistence
>  >> of literacy level students and their learning gains.
>  >>
>  >> Students with advanced education in their own language may be able to
>  >> have
>  >> a condensed program since they are already experienced as students and
>  >> often have high motivation to get through English so that they can
> take
>  >> courses related to their previous or future career.  City College of
> San
>  >> Francisco offers an "accelerated course" in which 2 semesters worth of
>  >> work is taught during one. Do any of your programs offer something
> along
>  >> these lines?
>  >>
>  >> Jodi
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>> I have not been a part of this discussion and I really liked the tool
>  >>> that
>  >>> Ted has shared with us.  However, I have question and I hope that it
>  >>> is
>  >>> not
>  >>> something that has already been asked and answered.
>  >>>
>  >>> The first item on Ted?s list is a little confusing.  In most of our
> ESL
>  >>> classes we enroll more than 10 students because of fiscal constraints
>  >>> and
>  >>> the need for ESL in the community.  So is it a negative or a positive
>  >>> to
>  >>> have fewer than 10 students in a class?  In our case, we expect to
> see
>  >>> more
>  >>> than 10 students in a class and for the teacher to sustain the
> numbers.
>  >>>
>  >>> As for the achievement gap, it is huge issue in all literacy programs
>  >>> because of many socio-economic factors.
>  >>>
>  >>> In our area, part of the Bay Area, the boom in the housing market (in
>  >>> past
>  >>> several years) and high rents made it difficult for people to stay in
>  >>> one
>  >>> neighborhood. Therefore they constantly move (this is seen more in
>  >>> people
>  >>> who do not have high levels of education from their native country).
>  >>>
>  >>> People with a certain level of education (college degrees from their
>  >>> countries are more likely to find stable jobs and have some kind of
>  >>> community support).  Most other people hold two or more jobs, go in
> and
>  >>> out
>  >>> of classes, change schedules, and finally drop out because of various
>  >>> constraints.  More than likely, they lack study skills and have no
> time
>  >>> to
>  >>> practice.
>  >>>
>  >>> The achievement gap stems not only from the differences in
> educational
>  >>> levels of immigrants, but also due the huge difference in the
>  >>> availability
>  >>> of  community resources.
>  >>>
>  >>> Usha Narayanan
>  >>> Sunnyvale-Cupertino Adult Education
>  >>> California
>  >>> 408-522-2737
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  >>> On 2/5/08 1:00 PM, "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>  >>>
>  >>>> Marie,
>  >>>>
>  >>>> I did this list years ago based on literally decades in and out of
> the
>  >>>> U.S.A.
>  >>>> teaching, training teachers, supervising, coordinating, etc. in ESL.
>  >>>> It
>  >>>> is
>  >>>> based on what seems to work or not work. I'm proud to say that I'm
>  >>>> back
>  >>>> in the
>  >>>> ESL trenches after, among other things, twenty years with the
> Defense
>  >>>> Language
>  >>>> Institute English Language Center. I've been teaching immigrants
> part
>  >>>> time for
>  >>>> the last eight years for the Adult Education Department at Austin
>  >>>> Community
>  >>>> College. Getting back in the trenches has reminded me of what
> language
>  >>>> teaching is all about. I feel sorry for anybody who has to work at a
>  >>>> higher
>  >>>> level, because that's really not as much fun! I truly hope that I
>  >>>> apply
>  >>>> everything on my list daily and don't fall into any of the "easy
>  >>>> traps."
>  >>>> I
>  >>>> have distributed this list over the years to anybody who seemed
>  >>>> interested and
>  >>>> it is published on my website at
>  >>>> http://www.tedklein-esl.com/ESL/20questions.html  Feel absolutely
> free
>  >>>> to use
>  >>>> it in any way that will make life easier for students. Thank you
> very
>  >>>> much for
>  >>>> the input. Questions are welcome.
>  >>>>
>  >>>> Cheers,   Ted
>  >>>>
>  >>>>        Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
>  >>>>   Independent Consultant in Language
>  >>>>          and Intercultural Training
>  >>>>                 14456 Agarita Road
>  >>>>           Austin, Texas 78734-2009
>  >>>>              Phone:512-266-1801
>  >>>>             taklein at austin.rr.com <mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com>
>  >>>>             www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>  >>>>
>  >>>>
>  >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:42  PM
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1110] Re:  Observation checklist
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>> Hi  Ted,
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>> Thanks for  this.  This is a great list - did you generate it
>  >>>>> yourself?
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>> I guess I have a  bunch of questions for you about it:
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>> How do you use  it?  As a general guide, or do you deliberately try
>  >>>>> to
>  >>>>> address each  item?  Are you the only one who uses this, or do
> others
>  >>>>> you
>  >>>>> work with?
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>> Do you find that  if you adhere to these principles, that the
>  >>>>> students
>  >>>>> advance?
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>> Marie
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>  >>>>>> From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>  >>>>>> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
>  >>>>>> Behalf Of Ted Klein
>  >>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:49  PM
>  >>>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List
>  >>>>>> Subject:  [Assessment 1105] Re: No Questions or Comments?!
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> Marie,
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> In the long run, this may be all that I know.
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> Ted
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-ESL.com>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> 20  Questions: LANGUAGE  CLASS OBSERVATION CHECKLIST     YES
>  >>>>>>  NO
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> 1.  Were there 10 or fewer students in the class?
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> 2.  Was the classroom comfortable in terms of
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>    environment and learning  atmosphere?
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> 3.  Did the instructor have a pleasant and
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>    supportive personality?
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> 4.  Were the lessons communication centered,
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>    rather than informational,  most of the time?
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> 5.  Was the instructor a native-speaker or
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>    near native-speaker of the  target language?
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> 6.  Was the target language used as a medium
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>    of instruction all or most of  the time?
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> 7.  Did the students do most of the communication,
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>    rather than the  instructor?
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> 8.  Did the instructor maintain control of the class
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>    in a non-threatening  manner?
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> 9.  Did  members of the class seem  compatible with each
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>    other and the instructor?
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> 10.  Did the students seem closely matched in their
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>     target language  proficiency?
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> 11.  Did all of the students participate?
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> 12.  Were students enthusiastic?
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> 13.  Did the instructor use a variety of techniques
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>     to elicit communication  activities?
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> 14.  Did the instructor assist students, rather
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>     than push them?
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> 15.  Did the instructor use normal, rather than
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>     exaggerated speech?
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> 16.  Were training aids used to enhance or reinforce
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>     results?
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> 17.  Were new learning objectives reinforced adequately?
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> 18.  Was correction applied moderately and positively
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>     so that it wouldn't  inhibit communication?
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> 19.  Was there a balance of language skills (listening,
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>     speaking, reading and  writing?)
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> 20.  Were students dealt with appropriately for their
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>     ages? (e.g. adults  treated like adults).
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> ---- Original Message -----
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>> From:  Marie Cora <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:50  PM
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No  Questions or Comments?!
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>> Hello  everyone,
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>> I?m so surprised!  No one has anything to comment on  regarding
>  >>>>>>> your
>  >>>>>>> program?s effectiveness at helping ESL students  advance??  I was
>  >>>>>>> very
>  >>>>>>> curious  to know if subscribers experience the same types of
> issues
>  >>>>>>> that
>  >>>>>>> Dr.  Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research:  a lack of
>  >>>>>>> intensity
>  >>>>>>> of  instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few
>  >>>>>>> opportunities
>  >>>>>>> for  professional development.
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>> What are the issues in your  program that you feel inhibit the
> ESL
>  >>>>>>> student
>  >>>>>>> from advancing?  What do you try to do about  that?
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>> Please post your questions and  comments now.
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>> Thanks!
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>> Assessment Discussion List  Moderator
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>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>> Marie  Cora
>  >>>>>>>
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>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>> NIFL  Assessment Discussion List Moderator
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>  >> --
>  >> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>  >> Professor, Education Department
>  >> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
>  >> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in
>  >> ESOL/Bilingual
>  >> Education
>  >> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
>  >> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
>  >> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
>  >> email: crandall at umbc.edu
>  >> www.umbc.edu/llc/
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>  > --
>  > JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>  > Professor, Education Department
>  > Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
>  > Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in
> ESOL/Bilingual
>  > Education
>  > University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
>  > 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
>  > ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
>  > email: crandall at umbc.edu
>  > www.umbc.edu/llc/
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>  JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>  Professor, Education Department
>  Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
>  Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
>  Education
>   University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
>    1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
>  ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
>  email: crandall at umbc.edu
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>     Professor and Director
>
>     Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
>
>     Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual
> Education
>
>     University of Maryland Baltimore County
>
>     1000 Hilltop Circle
>
>     Baltimore, MD 21250
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>  JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Professor and Director
> Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
> Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
> University of Maryland Baltimore County
> 1000 Hilltop Circle
> Baltimore, MD 21250
> tel:  410-455-2313
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>  JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Professor and Director
> Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
> Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
> University of Maryland Baltimore County
> 1000 Hilltop Circle
> Baltimore, MD 21250
> tel:  410-455-2313
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-- 
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html





From john.r.warrior at cox.net  Sun Feb 10 15:40:16 2008
From: john.r.warrior at cox.net (John)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:40:16 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1242]  Added problems with Generation 1.5
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1202576400.11344.assessment@nifl.gov>
References: <mailman.1.1202576400.11344.assessment@nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <001101c86c25$24cec6e0$0301a8c0@JOHNANDJUDY>



-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of assessment-request at nifl.gov
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 11:00 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: Assessment Digest, Vol 29, Issue 77


[john.r.warrior at cox.net] 

Hello everyone, 

I saw the postings refereeing to Generation 1.5 students and I felt I should
share some of my experiences. In addition to the lack of motivation, there
is a strong emotional side that affects many of these students. I'll share a
little about two of my student when I teaching at the local community
college, they seem to typify characteristics of the whole group.

The first student graduated from the local high school. She had a "B"
average and was quite smart.  However, when she found out that she was
unable to move into regular classes due to her lack of reading and writing
skills, she became depressed. Several weeks into the semester, our
conversation after class started with her asking me, "What good is a high
school diploma anyway?" I can't tell you how this made me feel. 

The approach that other faculty members and I used with her over the next
two semesters was to acknowledge her existing knowledge and skills, while
adding equipping her with new English language skills. We also made sure
that we tied everything into her goal of becoming a nurse. She graduated
from our program and entered into regular classes where she is doing quite
well.  

Though her problem was related to gaps in her English skills, she had many
of the same frustrations, which seem to accompany college graduates and
professional students trying to resume their careers in the US. 

My next student did not fare quite as well. However, in addition to similar
factors with her education she had an additional dimension. This was the
fact that she was of Indian decent, but had been born in Panama. She was
very frustrated socially be the time she came to us because she looked
Indian but couldn't speak any of the Indian languages to communicate with
the other Indian students, so she felt she was missing this cultural
connection. This was enhanced because many of the Spanish students did not
accept her. She confided in me that this had been going on since her and her
family immigrated to the US when she was ten. This isolation left her empty
and detached. When she struggled with an element of the lesson, she looked
at it as being another part of her that was isolated.  She lingered in our
program until she asked for permission to go into the adult education
classes. After a year there, she was wanting to come back. 

I wish this was the exception, but it is not. In our county, nearly 70% of
the students classified as English language Learners do not pass their High
School, End of Instruction Test.  Each of these students has a complex
history of social and emotional issues, which have to be addressed in order
to ensure that they are able to achieve their academic goals. I am not
saying we should be councilors, but as Instructors, we should take the time
to learn about who our students are and maintain an awareness of each
students emotional strength as well as their academic strength. 

John Warrior
The University of Tulsa
Tulsa, Oklahoma



[john.r.warrior at cox.net] 
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Today's Topics:

   1. [Assessment 1226] Re: (no subject) (Forrest Chisman)
   2. [Assessment 1227] Re: Multiple Intelligences and
      Differentiated	Instruction--registration opens (Forrest Chisman)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 22:30:48 -0500
From: "Forrest Chisman" <forrest at crosslink.net>
Subject: [Assessment 1226] Re: (no subject)
To: "'The Assessment Discussion List'" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <001e01c86acc$2c657b60$85307220$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

I think that it's almost entirely a matter of resources, Both the feds and
the states are willing to pay for student contact hours, but not much to
help improve the skills teachers bring to the "contact." Ultimately, this is
a policy/budgetary issue at the highest levels, I think. And the ESL field
as well as others will have to organize themselves to fight for it in the
corridors of power.

Forrest    

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of valerie.woodard
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 6:30 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1218] Re: (no subject)

I would love to hear from the group about "professional development"
challenges you face. How do we in-part learning theory to part-time staff
with degrees but no educational back ground.  How do we tap into the
importance of training and have staff identify with continuing professional
development. It seems to me that it would be of benefit to look at the
experience of the Adult Education instructors and requirement from the
federal grant but local authority can make up a large part of the
requirement they have adopted which does not put professional development up
front?  Resources are needed to help instructors stay sharp for the
students. 

 

Valerie Y. Woodard, MA
Program Director
Research, Evaluation & Staff Development
Community & Adult Education
Houston Community College
3100 Main St, Rm BD07E
Houston, Texas  77002
 
713-718-5363 Office
713718-5377  Fax
 
http://www.hccs.ed/adulted.mov <http://www.hccs.ed/adulteEd.mov> 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Fri 2/8/2008 3:49 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1207] Re: (no subject)



Jodi,

 

I think that's a fantastic conceptualization. As you know, I am not
well-versed in learning theory, but I can't help believing that these kinds
of ideas would be invaluable to teachers. I would love to hear from the
group whether they think most of their teachers are "up on" these kinds of
insights from learning theory and apply them. Or is this part of the
"professional development" challenge we face. It seems to me that it would
be tragic if we don't have the resources to help teachers tap into as much
of this as there is.

 

Forrest    

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 11:40 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1184] Re: (no subject)

 

Kevin,

 

Are many of your students what we now refer to as generation 1.5 students?
They have had much or most of their education in this country, but may still
need extensive help with academic English, especially in writing?

 

If so, are there any special things that you have tried to help this
population?

 

Do you also have international students?

 

Joy Reid has written extensively about "ear" learners (generation 1.5
learners would likely be here) and "eye" learners and how their needs are so
different.  Ear learners are those who were immersed in an English-speaking
environment and have learned their English orally.  As you suggest, they
have strong Basic Interpersonal Communication Skills or social language, but
may not have developed the academic language required for success in the
community college.  Eye learners are just the opposite: they have learned
English through books and lack the fluency of ear learners, but are more
likely to have more standard English  While these two groups share some
common needs, they are also very different in others.  It's a real
challenge.  Getting these ear learners prepared for the college is something
that lots of people are talking and writing about.

 

There is also the problem with the first group that they speak English and
often are offended when told they need more English, especially when it's
ESL!

 

In effect you are teaching only credit ESL, is that right?  Are there
linkages with any of the programs in the community that are teaching lower
level ESL?

 

Jodi  

On Feb 8, 2008, at 10:42 AM, Forrest Chisman wrote:





Kevin,

 

Thanks for the explanation. I find it VERY useful. It's a very interesting
model. I'm not surprised that your students are motivated for college,
because they've signed up for a college prep track! What worries me are the
limited aspirations of many lower level ESL students who may have college
potential. 

 

I understand now why you don't have the resources to operate a more
comprehensive program. I've heard an increasing number of stories about
areas were the LEA runs the federal/state  adult education ESL grant program
and has asked the local college to take it over (because the LEA has
concluded it's an "adult" program). Have there been any rumblings of that in
your area?

 

Best of luck in your good work.

 

Forrest    

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 9:42 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List; The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1174] Re: (no subject)

 

I believe we do have a hard time getting enough students fed into our
program and with the appropriate background to succeed if they do come to
us. It is a real problem. There are some workplace ESL programs which are
run through our Corporate and Continuing Education Office, but those
students rarely, if ever, come to us. And they serve the employees of
specific companies as opposed to the community at large. 

 

Our ESL program is within an academic department in the college
(Communication and Languages) and so is run like every other. ESL students
pay the same tuition and fees as all other students at the college. We do
not receive special government funding beyond what the state and counties
provide for the college as a whole as a part of our yearly budget.

 

Finances are probably a big reason why we are getting fewer students at the
low levels. Community programs are free or low cost; although in the scheme
of higher education, the community college is less expensive, it may still
be out of reach of many students. 

 

In terms of having a more comprehensive program, we are limited by a small
staff, and the unlikelihood of being able to expand given college budgeting
restraints. In addition, our three full-time faculty members (including
myself) not only teach 15 credit hours per semester but also do the
administrative work required. We do advising, scheduling, and the many other
tasks associate with keeping the program afloat. The only "official"
administrative support for the program is through the 3 hours of overload I
receive to serve as Adjunct Coordinator. 

 

The belief that they can attend college does not seem to be a problem with
our population although I can certainly see that it could be. A growing
problem for us (and many around the country) is the disconnect between high
schools and colleges in terms of student preparation. Either the high
schools do not think the students are college-bound and so don't bother to
give them a college-prep course of study, or there is simply a growing gap
between the expectations of each. Additionally, students seem to think that
a high school diploma equates to college readiness.

 

We do our best to advise students, but we don't always have enough time -
and as professors primarily - may not know ourselves what all of the options
for students are. 

 

Kevin 

 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 10:38 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1172] Re: (no subject)

Dear Kevin,

 

Many thanks for providing all of us with a profile of your program. Seeing
the variety of college program goals and designs is extremely valuable in
stimulating ideas about how to do a better job in delivering ESL.

 

Personally, I think that it is perfectly valid for colleges to elect to
offer solely pre-academic ESL at the non-credit level. But it does prompt
the concern about whether other programs in the college's service area are
providing non-academic ESL to large enough numbers of students and at a high
enough quality to "feed" the college program - as well as how well their
efforts articulate with yours. I wonder whether this troubles you, and if so
whether/how you have addressed the issue.  Frankly, I think one reason why
many colleges offer comprehensive ESL programs is that they would prefer to
"make" pre-academic students themselves, rather than rely on others to do
it. Another reason, of course, if that they may not be eligible for
federal/state grant money unless they offer comprehensive programs. Does
your college receive these funds to support its pre-academic program? If
not, how is it supported financially?

 

I heartily agree that helping students set realistic goals and understand
their options is essential. I believe, however, that encouraging students to
expand their goals as they succeed is also essential. For example, many
immigrants come from countries where going to college is the privilege of
very few, and thus may consider that an unrealistic goal  unless they are
encouraged to take the steps necessary (often one step at a time). The
problem seems to be that it is hard for most programs to find the resources
to provide very much guidance of any of these kinds to most students. I
wonder if anyone has any solutions to THAT issue. 

 

In any event, many thanks for fleshing out an interesting model.  

 

Forrest     

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:19 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1148] (no subject)

 

Hi All,

 

I have been reading most of the discussion comments and wanted to address a
few issues. First, however, I'll give a summary of our program. 

 

I teach ESL at Raritan Valley Community College in New Jersey. Our program
serves approximately 350 students from diverse language backgrounds. Our
program offers two pre-academic levels of all skills ESL instruction (a six
hour per week non-credit class). In addition, we have 5 levels of academic
ESL preparation divided into three courses - Reading/Writing, Grammar, and
Speaking/Listening). Our highest level Reading/Writing course gives
successful students 6 elective credits that count towards RVCC graduation,
but those credits do not transfer. Our semesters are 15 weeks. If a student
misses 20% of any class, the instructor may withdraw that student (they are
not, however, obliged to withdraw these students). At the moment, the late
enrollment policy is that students may register for a course prior to the
second week of class but not thereafter. Research, of course, indicates that
students who begin a class late have a much higher rate of failure than
those who begin on time
 . 

 

In our program, we have three full-time faculty and approximately 16-18
adjuncts. 

 

We have focused our program on academic prep ESL because we are a small
program with limited resources, and we have a very difficult time finding
qualified adjuncts. Also, a significant majority of our students have
signalled their intention to obtain a college degree. Moreover, there are
community programs that offer basic English skills although there is often a
long waiting list to obtain the services. In other issues, we use the
Accuplacer ESL test for placement and have in-house standardized tests at
the end of each level of grammar and reading/writing

 

Within our classes, highly educated non-native speakers usually progress
much more quickly. One of the most challenging groups is students who
graduated from local high schools but still have inadequate English skills -
and not infrequently, weak academic skills in general. One of the strategies
that I would personally wish for is real communication between K-12 and
community colleges so that students get the language skills they need before
they enter college. I understand that there is great pressure to move
students out of ESL in many school districts, but ultimately, it does a huge
disservice both financially and in terms of motivation to students whose
skills remain more BICS than CALP. 

 

I agree with those who suggest that first language literacy issues should be
addressed before students enter ESL. However, it becomes complicated to find
funding and support for such efforts. In my experience, students with low
level literacy skills become frustrated and are not ultimately successful -
probably by any definition. I am uncomfortable with the idea that they are
spending hard-earned money when the chances for success in ESL are minimal.
We advise students that the program is academically-oriented; often they
have little understanding of what that means. 

 

I do not agree with the suggestion that the bar be lowered so that students
with low-intermediate skills be allowed in credit classes (at least at my
college). Historically, other faculty have little experience handling
language issues and are very unhappy when students cannot read, write and
converse at an appropriate level of English. They end up feeling helpless.
Students may pass classes; however, I suspect that instructors do not want
to deal with the challenges and so turn a blind eye and let them through.
Recently, there has been a problem in the nursing department with non-native
English speaking students not passing board exams because they enter the
college from other programs and circumvent ESL with us. They have trouble
reading and answering questions on the exam. This is a significant problem
because nursing programs are judged in terms of the success of their
students on these standardized exams. 

 

I think the measure of success should be based on a realistic assessment of
student goals combined with a real-life discussion of the possibilities and
limitations. Ideally, students would have incremental goals so that success
could build. If the goals for students with low literacy levels are not
carefully discussed and planned, then they will likely encounter more
failure than success because their expectaions will be unrealistic. The more
we have the opportunity to talk to students, the more likely it is that they
can develop short-term goals that are within their reach. Unfortunately, we
have no control over the myriad of complications that accrue in their every
day lives. 

 

Apologies for the length.

 

Kevin Hinkle, Ph.D.

Assistant Professor of ESL/Adjunct Coordinator

-------------------------------

National Institute for Literacy

Assessment mailing list

Assessment at nifl.gov

To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

 

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

Professor and Director

Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program

Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education

University of Maryland Baltimore County

1000 Hilltop Circle

Baltimore, MD 21250

tel:  410-455-2313

fax: 410-455-8947

eml: crandall at umbc.edu

 

 





 

-------------------------------
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Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to forrest at crosslink.net



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 22:35:19 -0500
From: "Forrest Chisman" <forrest at crosslink.net>
Subject: [Assessment 1227] Re: Multiple Intelligences and
	Differentiated	Instruction--registration opens
To: "'The Assessment Discussion List'" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <001f01c86acc$d0a4e800$71eeb800$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Bonnie,

 

Good for you. You?ve obviously had (and are having) a remarkable career.
This can only enhance it.

 

Forrest

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Bonnie Odiorne
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 7:33 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1219] Re: Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
Instruction--registration opens

 

I am going to try the course; I just registered. As I've been following the
discussion with interest, I've been very intrigued by the issue of multiple
ihntelligences as they impact college transition, differentiated classrooms
(from the point of view of skills levels as well as intrinsic motivation)
and the increasing number of "developmental" students, regardless of their
educational backgrounds. If colleges and universities could get out of the
"developmental" model to a curriculum revision model that enhances
instructional changes (faculty are now talking about Bloom's taxonomy as a
starting point for curriculum revision), including differentiated
instruction... I do this wearing several hats: while I was in adult
education previously, in various ABE/ESOL programs, including tutor training
(so the comments about CBOs and standards for volunteers is a very difficult
topic), family, workplace, employability with technological enhancement
literacy programs ccombining ABE and ESOL students, I am now teaching French
(?!; it used to be ESOL but the university did away with its formalized
program) developmental English composition, freshman college success
seminars, working with a summer "bridge" program for at risk students, and I
am also director of the university writing center. Writing across the
curriculum, writing to learn, and multiple intelligences seemed to me to be
answers to the differentiated classroom. I also identify with funding: my
jobs are both part-time... and assesment (I work with the learning center to
administer Accuplacer). We also have a lot of developmental problems with
online students so I do writing center advising electronically....
Coincidentally, I'd been invited to facilitate an Oakland Unified Schools
District ESOL teachers' retreat with a mindfulness activity (I chose walking
the labyrinth) in relation to multiple intelligences, but I couldn't get the
life scan fingerprinting done in time, alas. I may have some role in this
program but I'm not quite sure what. In any event, when things come together
like this, I tend to listen up,  so thought I needed to take advantage of
the opportunity to take the course. 

Cheers, all you dedicated practitioners out there. 

Bonnie Odiorne, Ph.D. Post University Waterbury CT

----- Original Message ----
From: Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2008 1:38:48 PM
Subject: [Assessment 1194] Re: Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
Instruction--registration opens

Very interesting. Anyone going to try it?

 

Forrest

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Kaye Beall
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:41 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1181] Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
Instruction--registration opens

 

World Education is pleased to offer Multiple Intelligences and
Differentiated Instruction as an online training. 

 

The course syllabus and registration details are attached. Contact Kaye
Beall at kaye_beall at worlded.org with questions.

************************

 

Adult Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated Instruction

 

Course Dates: March 12?May 13, 2008; Online chats during Lessons 3, 4, and 5

 

Course Description

Research conducted by the National Center for the Study of Adult Learning
and Literacy shows that instructional practices inspired by Multiple
Intelligences (MI) theory resulted in high levels of authentic instruction
and student engagement.

Integrate your understanding of Multiple Intelligences (MI) theory with the
power of differentiated instruction in this facilitated, eight-session
course. You?ll learn how to apply MI theory and differentiate instruction
for all levels of adult basic education and English for speakers of other
languages. The facilitator will guide you as you develop your own MI-based
lessons.

 

Objectives

Upon completion of this course you will be able to:

*Apply the theory of multiple intelligences (MI) to design learning
activities that match your learning objectives

*Use varying methods of differentiated instruction (DI) that address the
different skills and interests of your learners

*Apply knowledge of your own MI profile to your classroom teaching

*Produce and reflect on a lesson or unit using both MI and DI

 

Required Text:

Viens, Julie and Silja Kallenbach. Multiple Intelligences and Adult
Literacy: A Sourcebook for Practitioners. (New York: Teachers College Press,
2004. Copies of the required textbook can be obtained from the publisher,
Teachers College Press (TCP), the publisher at
http://store.tcpress.com/0807743461.shtml. The cost is $27.95 per copy.

 

Course Format and Schedule: facilitated, online

During this eight-week course, you will engage in self-paced activities and
readings, as well as asynchronous discussions with the facilitators and
course participants. Three synchronous chats will be scheduled during
Lessons 3, 4, and 5.

 

Syllabus: See attached PDF?AMI Course Details.

 

Course Facilitator: Wendy Qui?ones

 

Estimated Completion Time: 40 hours

 

Registration: Complete and return the attached registration form-[PDF].
Payment must be received prior to enrollment. Registration is limited to 20
participants.

 

Cancellation policy: World Education reserves the right to cancel the course
if the minimum number of registrants is not met by March 4, 2008.

 

Kaye Beall

Project Director

World Education

6760 West Street

Linn Grove, IN 46711

765-717-3942

kaye_beall at worlded.org

www.worlded.org <http://www.worlded.org/> 

 



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net

 

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End of Assessment Digest, Vol 29, Issue 77
******************************************



From jhalaesl at aol.com  Sun Feb 10 18:57:58 2008
From: jhalaesl at aol.com (jhalaesl at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 18:57:58 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1243] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: Assessment Digest,
 Vol 29, Issue 70
In-Reply-To: <BAY115-W3632D846C99A003DA9EE24BF280@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.2859.1202516755.1030.assessment@nifl.gov>	<D66AE1265AC9B14B9EDD2D3EDA8066F5013EA3A5@shsmail.sanford.org>
	<BAY115-W3632D846C99A003DA9EE24BF280@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8CA3A57E5538229-D78-2005@webmail-de15.sysops.aol.com>


 MLOTS (David Rosen in Mass.) was working on a project to produce online instructional demo/best practices videos. Anyone know of the progress on that?


 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mary Lynn Simons <macsimoin at hotmail.com>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 3:23 pm
Subject: [Assessment 1236] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: Assessment Digest, Vol 29, Issue 70













Videos of good teachers teaching ESL are tremendously helpful. San Diego used to use them for new teachers and probably still does. Does anyone know where to get such videos? The main problem an inexperienced ESL teacher has is how to elicit language from students, and watching a good teacher is the best way to learn the? techniques. The biggest mistake new ESL teachers make is too much talking themselves -- usually talking about things students cannot possibly understand.

>







 


________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com
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From crandall at umbc.edu  Sun Feb 10 19:06:01 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:06:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Assessment 1244] Re: Ave atque vale!
In-Reply-To: <000001c86acf$74a516d0$5def4470$@net>
References: <948347.18120.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<000001c86acf$74a516d0$5def4470$@net>
Message-ID: <50192.138.88.174.8.1202688361.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>

Let me add my thanks as well.  I learned a lot.

Jodi
>
>
> Dear Participants,
>
>
>
> Since it's Friday night and Marie says the Discussion is over, I guess it
> is. But I'd like to thank you all personally for taking the time to
> participate and for making this such an "interesting" week for me. I've
> learned a lot, and I hope you've benefited too. In any event, you all seem
> to be wonderful people, and I hope we haven't heard the last of each
> other.
> Both Jodi and I will be at the TESOL Convention, and I would love to meet
> you personally.
>
>
>
> I hope you all have wonderful weekends with friends and family. I will be
> devoting a lot of time to making up for  neglecting my "child" (see
> attachment) while I was writing to you.
>
>
>
> Forrest
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>


-- 
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html





From teacherwendyq at gmail.com  Mon Feb 11 10:07:18 2008
From: teacherwendyq at gmail.com (Wendy Quinones)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:07:18 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1245] Re: Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
	Instruction--registration opens
In-Reply-To: <50180.138.88.174.8.1202688153.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
References: <648610.64458.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<50180.138.88.174.8.1202688153.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <ad2cc1ef0802110707s3266a0afw2df68f000a047686@mail.gmail.com>

Jodi,
Thanks for your kind words.  ESOL teachers do seem to come more naturally to
MI than many others, because as you say they've been doing this kind of
thing for years anyway -- think of jazz chants, after all.  MI can give a
theoretical underpinning to good practice, and a push toward even better.

Wendy

On Feb 10, 2008 7:02 PM, JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu> wrote:

> Wendy,
>
> I agree that the concept of multiple intelligences can work well with
> adult English Language Leaners.  Given the linguistic and cultural
> diversity of ELL students, ESL/ESOL teachers almost have to prepare
> lessons that appeal to different learning styles or intelligences.  I know
> everyone will get a great deal from your course.
>
> Jodi
>  > Thanks, Wendy. I'm looking forward to it, and I'm sure I'll learn a
> great
> > deal.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Wendy Quinones <teacherwendyq at gmail.com>
> > To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
> > Sent: Friday, February 8, 2008 9:29:45 PM
> > Subject: [Assessment 1222] Re: Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
> > Instruction--registration opens
> >
> >
> > Hi Bonnie and Forrest,
> > I am the developer and facilitator for this course, and I'm delighted to
> > hear that you registered, Bonnie!  I have taught transition-to-college
> > courses as well as ABE reading and writing from low-intermediate through
> > GED, as well as freshman comp at the community college level.  What we
> do
> > in this course is applicable at all those levels, as well as in ESOL. I
> > don't have much ESOL experience myself, but quite a few participants in
> > similar courses I've run have been ESOL teachers and they have been able
> > to use the concepts in wonderfully creative ways.  I think the
> principles
> > of MI and DI can be used at any level and any setting, and the course is
> > flexible enough to allow for use anywhere -- basically participants will
> > learn principles and then use them by making a lesson plan for their own
> > practice.  I've done several of these courses, and they are fun!
> >
> > Hope I'll see many of you there,
> > Wendy Quinones
> >
> >
> > On Feb 8, 2008 7:33 PM, Bonnie Odiorne <bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > I am going to try the course; I just registered. As I've been following
> > the discussion with interest, I've been very intrigued by the issue of
> > multiple ihntelligences as they impact college transition,
> differentiated
> > classrooms (from the point of view of skills levels as well as intrinsic
> > motivation) and the increasing number of "developmental" students,
> > regardless of their educational backgrounds. If colleges and
> universities
> > could get out of the "developmental" model to a curriculum revision
> model
> > that enhances instructional changes (faculty are now talking about
> Bloom's
> > taxonomy as a starting point for curriculum revision), including
> > differentiated instruction... I do this wearing several hats: while I
> was
> > in adult education previously, in various ABE/ESOL programs, including
> > tutor training (so the comments about CBOs and standards for volunteers
> is
> > a very difficult topic), family, workplace, employability with
> > technological enhancement literacy
> >  programs ccombining ABE and ESOL students, I am now teaching French
> (?!;
> > it used to be ESOL but the university did away with its formalized
> > program) developmental English composition, freshman college success
> > seminars, working with a summer "bridge" program for at risk students,
> > and I am also director of the university writing center. Writing across
> > the curriculum, writing to learn, and multiple intelligences seemed to
> me
> > to be answers to the differentiated classroom. I also identify with
> > funding: my jobs are both part-time... and assesment (I work with the
> > learning center to administer Accuplacer). We also have a lot of
> > developmental problems with online students so I do writing center
> > advising electronically....
> > Coincidentally, I'd been invited to facilitate an Oakland Unified
> Schools
> > District ESOL teachers' retreat with a mindfulness activity (I chose
> > walking the labyrinth) in relation to multiple intelligences, but I
> > couldn't get the life scan fingerprinting done in time, alas. I may have
> > some role in this program but I'm not quite sure what. In any event,
> when
> > things come together like this, I tend to listen up,  so thought I
> needed
> > to take advantage of the opportunity to take the course.
> > Cheers, all you dedicated practitioners out there.
> > Bonnie Odiorne, Ph.D. Post University Waterbury CT
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net>
> > To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
> > Sent: Friday, February 8, 2008 1:38:48 PM
> > Subject: [Assessment 1194] Re: Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
> > Instruction--registration opens
> >
> >
> > Very interesting. Anyone going to try it?
> >
> > Forrest
> >
> > From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
> On
> > Behalf Of Kaye Beall
> > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:41 PM
> > To: assessment at nifl.gov
> > Subject: [Assessment 1181] Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
> > Instruction--registration opens
> >
> > World Education is pleased to offer Multiple Intelligences and
> > Differentiated Instruction as an online training.
> >
> > The course syllabus and registration details are attached. Contact Kaye
> > Beall at kaye_beall at worlded.org with questions.
> > ************************
> >
> > Adult Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated Instruction
> >
> > Course Dates: March 12?May 13, 2008; Online chats during Lessons 3, 4,
> and
> > 5
> >
> > Course Description
> > Research conducted by the National Center for the Study of Adult
> Learning
> > and Literacy shows that instructional practices inspired by Multiple
> > Intelligences (MI) theory resulted in high levels of authentic
> instruction
> > and student engagement.
> > Integrate your understanding of Multiple Intelligences (MI) theory with
> > the power of differentiated instruction in this facilitated,
> eight-session
> > course. You'll learn how to apply MI theory and differentiate
> instruction
> > for all levels of adult basic education and English for speakers of
> other
> > languages. The facilitator will guide you as you develop your own
> MI-based
> > lessons.
> >
> > Objectives
> > Upon completion of this course you will be able to:
> > *Apply the theory of multiple intelligences (MI) to design learning
> > activities that match your learning objectives
> > *Use varying methods of differentiated instruction (DI) that address the
> > different skills and interests of your learners
> > *Apply knowledge of your own MI profile to your classroom teaching
> > *Produce and reflect on a lesson or unit using both MI and DI
> >
> > Required Text:
> > Viens, Julie and Silja Kallenbach. Multiple Intelligences and Adult
> > Literacy: A Sourcebook for Practitioners. (New York: Teachers College
> > Press, 2004. Copies of the required textbook can be obtained from the
> > publisher, Teachers College Press (TCP), the publisher at
> > http://store.tcpress.com/0807743461.shtml. The cost is $27.95 per copy.
> >
> > Course Format and Schedule: facilitated, online
> > During this eight-week course, you will engage in self-paced activities
> > and readings, as well as asynchronous discussions with the facilitators
> > and course participants. Three synchronous chats will be scheduled
> during
> > Lessons 3, 4, and 5.
> >
> > Syllabus: See attached PDF?AMI Course Details.
> >
> > Course Facilitator: Wendy Qui?ones
> >
> > Estimated Completion Time: 40 hours
> >
> > Registration: Complete and return the attached registration form-[PDF].
> > Payment must be received prior to enrollment. Registration is limited to
> > 20 participants.
> >
> > Cancellation policy: World Education reserves the right to cancel the
> > course if the minimum number of registrants is not met by March 4, 2008.
> >
> > Kaye Beall
> > Project Director
> > World Education
> > 6760 West Street
> > Linn Grove, IN 46711
> > 765-717-3942
> > kaye_beall at worlded.org
> > www.worlded.org
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >
> > -------------------------------
> > National Institute for Literacy
> > Assessment mailing list
> > Assessment at nifl.gov
> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> > Email delivered to bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------
> > National Institute for Literacy
> > Assessment mailing list
> > Assessment at nifl.gov
> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> > Email delivered to teacherwendyq at gmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >
> > -------------------------------
> > National Institute for Literacy
> > Assessment mailing list
> > Assessment at nifl.gov
> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> > Email delivered to
> > bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net-------------------------------
> > National Institute for Literacy
> > Assessment mailing list
> > Assessment at nifl.gov
> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> > Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
> >
>
>
> --
> JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
> Professor, Education Department
> Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
> Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual
> Education
> University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
> 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
> ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
> email: crandall at umbc.edu
> www.umbc.edu/llc/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/
> www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to teacherwendyq at gmail.com
>
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From bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net  Mon Feb 11 11:14:46 2008
From: bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net (Bonnie Odiorne)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 08:14:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Assessment 1246] Re: Added problems with Generation 1.5
Message-ID: <885122.49835.qm@web83315.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

John,
Thanks for clarifying generation 1.5 for me; I've encountered them for some time now but didn't have a "label" for them: just those whose spoken English would not indicate that they were ESOL in a traditional way, but whose writing and "academic English" needed a great deal of help. (Of course this is true of "native-born" HS graduates as well.... They do share some grammatical and structural issues with more traditional ESOL students, and are quick to deny that they are ESOL, which can be frustrating. I have pointed out to my colleagues that a great number of these students come to the Writing Center, as a "hidden ESOL" population, and our administration and faculty seem to treat them differently, as US-born or raised students intending to live here, as differentiasted from "international students" who would need more specialized support. I know this issue has shown up in passing in discussion, but it's the first time to my knowledge that anyone has
 talked about it.
Best regards,
Bonnie Odiorne, Adjunct Professor, English compoisition, French, and Freshman studies; Director, Writing Center; Post University Waterbury CT


----- Original Message ----
From: John <john.r.warrior at cox.net>
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 3:40:16 PM
Subject: [Assessment 1242] Added problems with Generation 1.5



-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of assessment-request at nifl.gov
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 11:00 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: Assessment Digest, Vol 29, Issue 77


[john.r.warrior at cox.net] 

Hello everyone, 

I saw the postings refereeing to Generation 1.5 students and I felt I should
share some of my experiences. In addition to the lack of motivation, there
is a strong emotional side that affects many of these students. I'll share a
little about two of my student when I teaching at the local community
college, they seem to typify characteristics of the whole group.

The first student graduated from the local high school. She had a "B"
average and was quite smart.  However, when she found out that she was
unable to move into regular classes due to her lack of reading and writing
skills, she became depressed. Several weeks into the semester, our
conversation after class started with her asking me, "What good is a high
school diploma anyway?" I can't tell you how this made me feel. 

The approach that other faculty members and I used with her over the next
two semesters was to acknowledge her existing knowledge and skills, while
adding equipping her with new English language skills. We also made sure
that we tied everything into her goal of becoming a nurse. She graduated
from our program and entered into regular classes where she is doing quite
well.  

Though her problem was related to gaps in her English skills, she had many
of the same frustrations, which seem to accompany college graduates and
professional students trying to resume their careers in the US. 

My next student did not fare quite as well. However, in addition to similar
factors with her education she had an additional dimension. This was the
fact that she was of Indian decent, but had been born in Panama. She was
very frustrated socially be the time she came to us because she looked
Indian but couldn't speak any of the Indian languages to communicate with
the other Indian students, so she felt she was missing this cultural
connection. This was enhanced because many of the Spanish students did not
accept her. She confided in me that this had been going on since her and her
family immigrated to the US when she was ten. This isolation left her empty
and detached. When she struggled with an element of the lesson, she looked
at it as being another part of her that was isolated.  She lingered in our
program until she asked for permission to go into the adult education
classes. After a year there, she was wanting to come back. 

I wish this was the exception, but it is not. In our county, nearly 70% of
the students classified as English language Learners do not pass their High
School, End of Instruction Test.  Each of these students has a complex
history of social and emotional issues, which have to be addressed in order
to ensure that they are able to achieve their academic goals. I am not
saying we should be councilors, but as Instructors, we should take the time
to learn about who our students are and maintain an awareness of each
students emotional strength as well as their academic strength. 

John Warrior
The University of Tulsa
Tulsa, Oklahoma



[john.r.warrior at cox.net] 
    assessment at nifl.gov

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Today's Topics:

  1. [Assessment 1226] Re: (no subject) (Forrest Chisman)
  2. [Assessment 1227] Re: Multiple Intelligences and
      Differentiated    Instruction--registration opens (Forrest Chisman)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 22:30:48 -0500
From: "Forrest Chisman" <forrest at crosslink.net>
Subject: [Assessment 1226] Re: (no subject)
To: "'The Assessment Discussion List'" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <001e01c86acc$2c657b60$85307220$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"

I think that it's almost entirely a matter of resources, Both the feds and
the states are willing to pay for student contact hours, but not much to
help improve the skills teachers bring to the "contact." Ultimately, this is
a policy/budgetary issue at the highest levels, I think. And the ESL field
as well as others will have to organize themselves to fight for it in the
corridors of power.

Forrest    

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of valerie.woodard
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 6:30 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1218] Re: (no subject)

I would love to hear from the group about "professional development"
challenges you face. How do we in-part learning theory to part-time staff
with degrees but no educational back ground.  How do we tap into the
importance of training and have staff identify with continuing professional
development. It seems to me that it would be of benefit to look at the
experience of the Adult Education instructors and requirement from the
federal grant but local authority can make up a large part of the
requirement they have adopted which does not put professional development up
front?  Resources are needed to help instructors stay sharp for the
students. 



Valerie Y. Woodard, MA
Program Director
Research, Evaluation & Staff Development
Community & Adult Education
Houston Community College
3100 Main St, Rm BD07E
Houston, Texas  77002

713-718-5363 Office
713718-5377  Fax

http://www.hccs.ed/adulted.mov <http://www.hccs.ed/adulteEd.mov> 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Fri 2/8/2008 3:49 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1207] Re: (no subject)



Jodi,



I think that's a fantastic conceptualization. As you know, I am not
well-versed in learning theory, but I can't help believing that these kinds
of ideas would be invaluable to teachers. I would love to hear from the
group whether they think most of their teachers are "up on" these kinds of
insights from learning theory and apply them. Or is this part of the
"professional development" challenge we face. It seems to me that it would
be tragic if we don't have the resources to help teachers tap into as much
of this as there is.



Forrest    



From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 11:40 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1184] Re: (no subject)



Kevin,



Are many of your students what we now refer to as generation 1.5 students?
They have had much or most of their education in this country, but may still
need extensive help with academic English, especially in writing?



If so, are there any special things that you have tried to help this
population?



Do you also have international students?



Joy Reid has written extensively about "ear" learners (generation 1.5
learners would likely be here) and "eye" learners and how their needs are so
different.  Ear learners are those who were immersed in an English-speaking
environment and have learned their English orally.  As you suggest, they
have strong Basic Interpersonal Communication Skills or social language, but
may not have developed the academic language required for success in the
community college.  Eye learners are just the opposite: they have learned
English through books and lack the fluency of ear learners, but are more
likely to have more standard English  While these two groups share some
common needs, they are also very different in others.  It's a real
challenge.  Getting these ear learners prepared for the college is something
that lots of people are talking and writing about.



There is also the problem with the first group that they speak English and
often are offended when told they need more English, especially when it's
ESL!



In effect you are teaching only credit ESL, is that right?  Are there
linkages with any of the programs in the community that are teaching lower
level ESL?



Jodi  

On Feb 8, 2008, at 10:42 AM, Forrest Chisman wrote:





Kevin,



Thanks for the explanation. I find it VERY useful. It's a very interesting
model. I'm not surprised that your students are motivated for college,
because they've signed up for a college prep track! What worries me are the
limited aspirations of many lower level ESL students who may have college
potential. 



I understand now why you don't have the resources to operate a more
comprehensive program. I've heard an increasing number of stories about
areas were the LEA runs the federal/state  adult education ESL grant program
and has asked the local college to take it over (because the LEA has
concluded it's an "adult" program). Have there been any rumblings of that in
your area?



Best of luck in your good work.



Forrest    



From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 9:42 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List; The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1174] Re: (no subject)



I believe we do have a hard time getting enough students fed into our
program and with the appropriate background to succeed if they do come to
us. It is a real problem. There are some workplace ESL programs which are
run through our Corporate and Continuing Education Office, but those
students rarely, if ever, come to us. And they serve the employees of
specific companies as opposed to the community at large. 



Our ESL program is within an academic department in the college
(Communication and Languages) and so is run like every other. ESL students
pay the same tuition and fees as all other students at the college. We do
not receive special government funding beyond what the state and counties
provide for the college as a whole as a part of our yearly budget.



Finances are probably a big reason why we are getting fewer students at the
low levels. Community programs are free or low cost; although in the scheme
of higher education, the community college is less expensive, it may still
be out of reach of many students. 



In terms of having a more comprehensive program, we are limited by a small
staff, and the unlikelihood of being able to expand given college budgeting
restraints. In addition, our three full-time faculty members (including
myself) not only teach 15 credit hours per semester but also do the
administrative work required. We do advising, scheduling, and the many other
tasks associate with keeping the program afloat. The only "official"
administrative support for the program is through the 3 hours of overload I
receive to serve as Adjunct Coordinator. 



The belief that they can attend college does not seem to be a problem with
our population although I can certainly see that it could be. A growing
problem for us (and many around the country) is the disconnect between high
schools and colleges in terms of student preparation. Either the high
schools do not think the students are college-bound and so don't bother to
give them a college-prep course of study, or there is simply a growing gap
between the expectations of each. Additionally, students seem to think that
a high school diploma equates to college readiness.



We do our best to advise students, but we don't always have enough time -
and as professors primarily - may not know ourselves what all of the options
for students are. 



Kevin 



________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 10:38 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1172] Re: (no subject)

Dear Kevin,



Many thanks for providing all of us with a profile of your program. Seeing
the variety of college program goals and designs is extremely valuable in
stimulating ideas about how to do a better job in delivering ESL.



Personally, I think that it is perfectly valid for colleges to elect to
offer solely pre-academic ESL at the non-credit level. But it does prompt
the concern about whether other programs in the college's service area are
providing non-academic ESL to large enough numbers of students and at a high
enough quality to "feed" the college program - as well as how well their
efforts articulate with yours. I wonder whether this troubles you, and if so
whether/how you have addressed the issue.  Frankly, I think one reason why
many colleges offer comprehensive ESL programs is that they would prefer to
"make" pre-academic students themselves, rather than rely on others to do
it. Another reason, of course, if that they may not be eligible for
federal/state grant money unless they offer comprehensive programs. Does
your college receive these funds to support its pre-academic program? If
not, how is it supported financially?



I heartily agree that helping students set realistic goals and understand
their options is essential. I believe, however, that encouraging students to
expand their goals as they succeed is also essential. For example, many
immigrants come from countries where going to college is the privilege of
very few, and thus may consider that an unrealistic goal  unless they are
encouraged to take the steps necessary (often one step at a time). The
problem seems to be that it is hard for most programs to find the resources
to provide very much guidance of any of these kinds to most students. I
wonder if anyone has any solutions to THAT issue. 



In any event, many thanks for fleshing out an interesting model.  



Forrest    



From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:19 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1148] (no subject)



Hi All,



I have been reading most of the discussion comments and wanted to address a
few issues. First, however, I'll give a summary of our program. 



I teach ESL at Raritan Valley Community College in New Jersey. Our program
serves approximately 350 students from diverse language backgrounds. Our
program offers two pre-academic levels of all skills ESL instruction (a six
hour per week non-credit class). In addition, we have 5 levels of academic
ESL preparation divided into three courses - Reading/Writing, Grammar, and
Speaking/Listening). Our highest level Reading/Writing course gives
successful students 6 elective credits that count towards RVCC graduation,
but those credits do not transfer. Our semesters are 15 weeks. If a student
misses 20% of any class, the instructor may withdraw that student (they are
not, however, obliged to withdraw these students). At the moment, the late
enrollment policy is that students may register for a course prior to the
second week of class but not thereafter. Research, of course, indicates that
students who begin a class late have a much higher rate of failure than
those who begin on time
. 



In our program, we have three full-time faculty and approximately 16-18
adjuncts. 



We have focused our program on academic prep ESL because we are a small
program with limited resources, and we have a very difficult time finding
qualified adjuncts. Also, a significant majority of our students have
signalled their intention to obtain a college degree. Moreover, there are
community programs that offer basic English skills although there is often a
long waiting list to obtain the services. In other issues, we use the
Accuplacer ESL test for placement and have in-house standardized tests at
the end of each level of grammar and reading/writing



Within our classes, highly educated non-native speakers usually progress
much more quickly. One of the most challenging groups is students who
graduated from local high schools but still have inadequate English skills -
and not infrequently, weak academic skills in general. One of the strategies
that I would personally wish for is real communication between K-12 and
community colleges so that students get the language skills they need before
they enter college. I understand that there is great pressure to move
students out of ESL in many school districts, but ultimately, it does a huge
disservice both financially and in terms of motivation to students whose
skills remain more BICS than CALP. 



I agree with those who suggest that first language literacy issues should be
addressed before students enter ESL. However, it becomes complicated to find
funding and support for such efforts. In my experience, students with low
level literacy skills become frustrated and are not ultimately successful -
probably by any definition. I am uncomfortable with the idea that they are
spending hard-earned money when the chances for success in ESL are minimal.
We advise students that the program is academically-oriented; often they
have little understanding of what that means. 



I do not agree with the suggestion that the bar be lowered so that students
with low-intermediate skills be allowed in credit classes (at least at my
college). Historically, other faculty have little experience handling
language issues and are very unhappy when students cannot read, write and
converse at an appropriate level of English. They end up feeling helpless.
Students may pass classes; however, I suspect that instructors do not want
to deal with the challenges and so turn a blind eye and let them through.
Recently, there has been a problem in the nursing department with non-native
English speaking students not passing board exams because they enter the
college from other programs and circumvent ESL with us. They have trouble
reading and answering questions on the exam. This is a significant problem
because nursing programs are judged in terms of the success of their
students on these standardized exams. 



I think the measure of success should be based on a realistic assessment of
student goals combined with a real-life discussion of the possibilities and
limitations. Ideally, students would have incremental goals so that success
could build. If the goals for students with low literacy levels are not
carefully discussed and planned, then they will likely encounter more
failure than success because their expectaions will be unrealistic. The more
we have the opportunity to talk to students, the more likely it is that they
can develop short-term goals that are within their reach. Unfortunately, we
have no control over the myriad of complications that accrue in their every
day lives. 



Apologies for the length.



Kevin Hinkle, Ph.D.

Assistant Professor of ESL/Adjunct Coordinator

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Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu



JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

Professor and Director

Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program

Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education

University of Maryland Baltimore County

1000 Hilltop Circle

Baltimore, MD 21250

tel:  410-455-2313

fax: 410-455-8947

eml: crandall at umbc.edu











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Email delivered to forrest at crosslink.net



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 22:35:19 -0500
From: "Forrest Chisman" <forrest at crosslink.net>
Subject: [Assessment 1227] Re: Multiple Intelligences and
    Differentiated    Instruction--registration opens
To: "'The Assessment Discussion List'" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <001f01c86acc$d0a4e800$71eeb800$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Bonnie,



Good for you. You?ve obviously had (and are having) a remarkable career.
This can only enhance it.



Forrest



From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Bonnie Odiorne
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 7:33 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1219] Re: Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
Instruction--registration opens



I am going to try the course; I just registered. As I've been following the
discussion with interest, I've been very intrigued by the issue of multiple
ihntelligences as they impact college transition, differentiated classrooms
(from the point of view of skills levels as well as intrinsic motivation)
and the increasing number of "developmental" students, regardless of their
educational backgrounds. If colleges and universities could get out of the
"developmental" model to a curriculum revision model that enhances
instructional changes (faculty are now talking about Bloom's taxonomy as a
starting point for curriculum revision), including differentiated
instruction... I do this wearing several hats: while I was in adult
education previously, in various ABE/ESOL programs, including tutor training
(so the comments about CBOs and standards for volunteers is a very difficult
topic), family, workplace, employability with technological enhancement
literacy programs ccombining ABE and ESOL students, I am now teaching French
(?!; it used to be ESOL but the university did away with its formalized
program) developmental English composition, freshman college success
seminars, working with a summer "bridge" program for at risk students, and I
am also director of the university writing center. Writing across the
curriculum, writing to learn, and multiple intelligences seemed to me to be
answers to the differentiated classroom. I also identify with funding: my
jobs are both part-time... and assesment (I work with the learning center to
administer Accuplacer). We also have a lot of developmental problems with
online students so I do writing center advising electronically....
Coincidentally, I'd been invited to facilitate an Oakland Unified Schools
District ESOL teachers' retreat with a mindfulness activity (I chose walking
the labyrinth) in relation to multiple intelligences, but I couldn't get the
life scan fingerprinting done in time, alas. I may have some role in this
program but I'm not quite sure what. In any event, when things come together
like this, I tend to listen up,  so thought I needed to take advantage of
the opportunity to take the course. 

Cheers, all you dedicated practitioners out there. 

Bonnie Odiorne, Ph.D. Post University Waterbury CT

----- Original Message ----
From: Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2008 1:38:48 PM
Subject: [Assessment 1194] Re: Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
Instruction--registration opens

Very interesting. Anyone going to try it?



Forrest



From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Kaye Beall
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:41 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1181] Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
Instruction--registration opens



World Education is pleased to offer Multiple Intelligences and
Differentiated Instruction as an online training. 



The course syllabus and registration details are attached. Contact Kaye
Beall at kaye_beall at worlded.org with questions.

************************



Adult Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated Instruction



Course Dates: March 12?May 13, 2008; Online chats during Lessons 3, 4, and 5



Course Description

Research conducted by the National Center for the Study of Adult Learning
and Literacy shows that instructional practices inspired by Multiple
Intelligences (MI) theory resulted in high levels of authentic instruction
and student engagement.

Integrate your understanding of Multiple Intelligences (MI) theory with the
power of differentiated instruction in this facilitated, eight-session
course. You?ll learn how to apply MI theory and differentiate instruction
for all levels of adult basic education and English for speakers of other
languages. The facilitator will guide you as you develop your own MI-based
lessons.



Objectives

Upon completion of this course you will be able to:

*Apply the theory of multiple intelligences (MI) to design learning
activities that match your learning objectives

*Use varying methods of differentiated instruction (DI) that address the
different skills and interests of your learners

*Apply knowledge of your own MI profile to your classroom teaching

*Produce and reflect on a lesson or unit using both MI and DI



Required Text:

Viens, Julie and Silja Kallenbach. Multiple Intelligences and Adult
Literacy: A Sourcebook for Practitioners. (New York: Teachers College Press,
2004. Copies of the required textbook can be obtained from the publisher,
Teachers College Press (TCP), the publisher at
http://store.tcpress.com/0807743461.shtml. The cost is $27.95 per copy.



Course Format and Schedule: facilitated, online

During this eight-week course, you will engage in self-paced activities and
readings, as well as asynchronous discussions with the facilitators and
course participants. Three synchronous chats will be scheduled during
Lessons 3, 4, and 5.



Syllabus: See attached PDF?AMI Course Details.



Course Facilitator: Wendy Qui?ones



Estimated Completion Time: 40 hours



Registration: Complete and return the attached registration form-[PDF].
Payment must be received prior to enrollment. Registration is limited to 20
participants.



Cancellation policy: World Education reserves the right to cancel the course
if the minimum number of registrants is not met by March 4, 2008.



Kaye Beall

Project Director

World Education

6760 West Street

Linn Grove, IN 46711

765-717-3942

kaye_beall at worlded.org

www.worlded.org <http://www.worlded.org/> 





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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Mon Feb 11 11:48:58 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:48:58 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1247] Re: Ave atque vale!
In-Reply-To: <50192.138.88.174.8.1202688361.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <01dd01c86cce$00571930$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi everyone,

I just wanted to make a slight apology and also send my thanks to our
guests, Dr. Jodi Crandall and Dr. Forrest Chisman, for a rich and
interesting discussion last week.  

As for the apology, I accidentally sent this post through:  you will see
at the bottom of Dr. Chisman's email he notes that there is an
attachment - a photo of his "child" (I will let him fill you in).
Unfortunately, I can't send attachments through to the List (this could
cause some subscribers' internet access to complain).  I had wanted to
re-send the message without the attachment info, but it slipped by me.  

At any rate, once again my thanks to our guests - and to those
subscribers who publicly joined our conversation.  I hope everyone found
it useful and interesting.  I will send out email this week to let you
know when the transcript of the discussion is prepared for you.

Thanks!

Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator


-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 7:06 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1244] Re: Ave atque vale!

Let me add my thanks as well.  I learned a lot.

Jodi
>
>
> Dear Participants,
>
>
>
> Since it's Friday night and Marie says the Discussion is over, I guess
it
> is. But I'd like to thank you all personally for taking the time to
> participate and for making this such an "interesting" week for me.
I've
> learned a lot, and I hope you've benefited too. In any event, you all
seem
> to be wonderful people, and I hope we haven't heard the last of each
> other.
> Both Jodi and I will be at the TESOL Convention, and I would love to
meet
> you personally.
>
>
>
> I hope you all have wonderful weekends with friends and family. I will
be
> devoting a lot of time to making up for  neglecting my "child" (see
> attachment) while I was writing to you.
>
>
>
> Forrest
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>


-- 
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in
ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html



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From forrest at crosslink.net  Mon Feb 11 12:53:58 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 12:53:58 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1248] Re: Ave atque vale!
In-Reply-To: <01dd01c86cce$00571930$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
References: <50192.138.88.174.8.1202688361.squirrel@webmail.umbc.edu>
	<01dd01c86cce$00571930$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <000901c86cd7$1645c9e0$42d15da0$@net>

Marie,

But you DID send it with the attachment! At least it arrived that way here.
Tee-hee!

Forrest

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 11:49 AM
To: 'Jodi Crandall'; 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1247] Re: Ave atque vale!

Hi everyone,

I just wanted to make a slight apology and also send my thanks to our
guests, Dr. Jodi Crandall and Dr. Forrest Chisman, for a rich and
interesting discussion last week.  

As for the apology, I accidentally sent this post through:  you will see
at the bottom of Dr. Chisman's email he notes that there is an
attachment - a photo of his "child" (I will let him fill you in).
Unfortunately, I can't send attachments through to the List (this could
cause some subscribers' internet access to complain).  I had wanted to
re-send the message without the attachment info, but it slipped by me.  

At any rate, once again my thanks to our guests - and to those
subscribers who publicly joined our conversation.  I hope everyone found
it useful and interesting.  I will send out email this week to let you
know when the transcript of the discussion is prepared for you.

Thanks!

Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator


-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 7:06 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1244] Re: Ave atque vale!

Let me add my thanks as well.  I learned a lot.

Jodi
>
>
> Dear Participants,
>
>
>
> Since it's Friday night and Marie says the Discussion is over, I guess
it
> is. But I'd like to thank you all personally for taking the time to
> participate and for making this such an "interesting" week for me.
I've
> learned a lot, and I hope you've benefited too. In any event, you all
seem
> to be wonderful people, and I hope we haven't heard the last of each
> other.
> Both Jodi and I will be at the TESOL Convention, and I would love to
meet
> you personally.
>
>
>
> I hope you all have wonderful weekends with friends and family. I will
be
> devoting a lot of time to making up for  neglecting my "child" (see
> attachment) while I was writing to you.
>
>
>
> Forrest
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>


-- 
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in
ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html



-------------------------------
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Email delivered to marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

-------------------------------
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Email delivered to forrest at crosslink.net



From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Mon Feb 11 13:04:07 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 13:04:07 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1249] Re: Ave atque vale!
In-Reply-To: <000901c86cd7$1645c9e0$42d15da0$@net>
Message-ID: <022b01c86cd8$7f2b2990$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi Forrest and all - 

You're right!  OY!  I guess my head is spinning a bit from all these
emails this past week!

Well:  I hope that this did not negatively affect anyone's on-line
access.  

But at least you get to see Forrest's baby!

Marie :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: Forrest Chisman [mailto:forrest at crosslink.net] 
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 12:54 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: RE: [Assessment 1247] Re: Ave atque vale!

Marie,

But you DID send it with the attachment! At least it arrived that way
here.
Tee-hee!

Forrest

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On
Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 11:49 AM
To: 'Jodi Crandall'; 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1247] Re: Ave atque vale!

Hi everyone,

I just wanted to make a slight apology and also send my thanks to our
guests, Dr. Jodi Crandall and Dr. Forrest Chisman, for a rich and
interesting discussion last week.  

As for the apology, I accidentally sent this post through:  you will see
at the bottom of Dr. Chisman's email he notes that there is an
attachment - a photo of his "child" (I will let him fill you in).
Unfortunately, I can't send attachments through to the List (this could
cause some subscribers' internet access to complain).  I had wanted to
re-send the message without the attachment info, but it slipped by me.  

At any rate, once again my thanks to our guests - and to those
subscribers who publicly joined our conversation.  I hope everyone found
it useful and interesting.  I will send out email this week to let you
know when the transcript of the discussion is prepared for you.

Thanks!

Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator


-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 7:06 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1244] Re: Ave atque vale!

Let me add my thanks as well.  I learned a lot.

Jodi
>
>
> Dear Participants,
>
>
>
> Since it's Friday night and Marie says the Discussion is over, I guess
it
> is. But I'd like to thank you all personally for taking the time to
> participate and for making this such an "interesting" week for me.
I've
> learned a lot, and I hope you've benefited too. In any event, you all
seem
> to be wonderful people, and I hope we haven't heard the last of each
> other.
> Both Jodi and I will be at the TESOL Convention, and I would love to
meet
> you personally.
>
>
>
> I hope you all have wonderful weekends with friends and family. I will
be
> devoting a lot of time to making up for  neglecting my "child" (see
> attachment) while I was writing to you.
>
>
>
> Forrest
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu
>


-- 
JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor, Education Department
Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture
Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in
ESOL/Bilingual
Education
University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
ph:    410-455-2313/2376  fax:   410-455-8947/1880
email: crandall at umbc.edu
www.umbc.edu/llc/
www.umbc.edu/esol/
www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html



-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

-------------------------------
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http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to forrest at crosslink.net




From crandall at umbc.edu  Mon Feb 11 20:01:33 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (Jodi Crandall)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:01:33 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1250]  Videos of good teachers teaching ESL
In-Reply-To: <8CA3A57E5538229-D78-2005@webmail-de15.sysops.aol.com>
References: <mailman.2859.1202516755.1030.assessment@nifl.gov>	<D66AE1265AC9B14B9EDD2D3EDA8066F5013EA3A5@shsmail.sanford.org>
	<BAY115-W3632D846C99A003DA9EE24BF280@phx.gbl>
	<8CA3A57E5538229-D78-2005@webmail-de15.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <99982867-1B4A-45BD-985A-537DF0E35A5C@umbc.edu>

I knew that Lynn Savage had developed a series of these some years  
ago, so i emailed her to ask if they were still available and also if  
she knew of others.

What follows is the information that she sent:

The title of our series is Teacher Training through Video.  The  
publisher is Longman/Pearson.  The videos are now on two DVD's -  6  
lessons each - 1 on lesson planning and 5 on lower level techniques  
on one DVD; the other 6 of high level techniques.

About the time we did ours a woman from New York (I can't remember  
her name now) also did a series with federal dollars.  I believe they  
were published through Laubach Literacy or ProLiteracy.  I don't know  
if they are still available.

The Toronto Board of Education also did something called TESL Vision:  
A Video Resource for TESL teaching.  I used part of one of them when  
I was doing Peace Corps training.  As I recall, their apporach is  
more reflective and less didactic than TTTV.



Thanks, Lynn.



On Feb 10, 2008, at 6:57 PM, jhalaesl at aol.com wrote:

> MLOTS (David Rosen in Mass.) was working on a project to produce  
> online instructional demo/best practices videos. Anyone know of the  
> progress on that?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mary Lynn Simons <macsimoin at hotmail.com>
> To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
> Sent: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 3:23 pm
> Subject: [Assessment 1236] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: Assessment  
> Digest, Vol 29, Issue 70
>
> Videos of good teachers teaching ESL are tremendously helpful. San  
> Diego used to use them for new teachers and probably still does.  
> Does anyone know where to get such videos? The main problem an  
> inexperienced ESL teacher has is how to elicit language from  
> students, and watching a good teacher is the best way to learn the   
> techniques. The biggest mistake new ESL teachers make is too much  
> talking themselves -- usually talking about things students cannot  
> possibly understand.
>
> >
> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor and Director
Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
University of Maryland Baltimore County
1000 Hilltop Circle
Baltimore, MD 21250
tel:  410-455-2313
fax: 410-455-8947
eml: crandall at umbc.edu




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From mjjerdems at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 11 17:11:35 2008
From: mjjerdems at yahoo.com (Mary Jane Jerde)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 14:11:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Assessment 1251] Re: Added problems with Generation 1.5
In-Reply-To: <001101c86c25$24cec6e0$0301a8c0@JOHNANDJUDY>
Message-ID: <941700.11145.qm@web54008.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Dear John,

I don't know if this will help your students, but I've used this personal anecdote from time to time. 

Before my dad went to college, he had been raised by a Norwegian speaking mother and English speaking father. His dad had little education. Dad really needed the remedial English class his freshman year. Out of that particular class came several doctors and college presidents. 

While everyone is unique, people can do wonderful things with their lives. The above examples are just our stereotypical success stories. 

Mary Jane Jerde

John <john.r.warrior at cox.net> wrote: 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of assessment-request at nifl.gov
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 11:00 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: Assessment Digest, Vol 29, Issue 77


[john.r.warrior at cox.net] 

Hello everyone, 

I saw the postings refereeing to Generation 1.5 students and I felt I should
share some of my experiences. In addition to the lack of motivation, there
is a strong emotional side that affects many of these students. I'll share a
little about two of my student when I teaching at the local community
college, they seem to typify characteristics of the whole group.

The first student graduated from the local high school. She had a "B"
average and was quite smart.  However, when she found out that she was
unable to move into regular classes due to her lack of reading and writing
skills, she became depressed. Several weeks into the semester, our
conversation after class started with her asking me, "What good is a high
school diploma anyway?" I can't tell you how this made me feel. 

The approach that other faculty members and I used with her over the next
two semesters was to acknowledge her existing knowledge and skills, while
adding equipping her with new English language skills. We also made sure
that we tied everything into her goal of becoming a nurse. She graduated
from our program and entered into regular classes where she is doing quite
well.  

Though her problem was related to gaps in her English skills, she had many
of the same frustrations, which seem to accompany college graduates and
professional students trying to resume their careers in the US. 

My next student did not fare quite as well. However, in addition to similar
factors with her education she had an additional dimension. This was the
fact that she was of Indian decent, but had been born in Panama. She was
very frustrated socially be the time she came to us because she looked
Indian but couldn't speak any of the Indian languages to communicate with
the other Indian students, so she felt she was missing this cultural
connection. This was enhanced because many of the Spanish students did not
accept her. She confided in me that this had been going on since her and her
family immigrated to the US when she was ten. This isolation left her empty
and detached. When she struggled with an element of the lesson, she looked
at it as being another part of her that was isolated.  She lingered in our
program until she asked for permission to go into the adult education
classes. After a year there, she was wanting to come back. 

I wish this was the exception, but it is not. In our county, nearly 70% of
the students classified as English language Learners do not pass their High
School, End of Instruction Test.  Each of these students has a complex
history of social and emotional issues, which have to be addressed in order
to ensure that they are able to achieve their academic goals. I am not
saying we should be councilors, but as Instructors, we should take the time
to learn about who our students are and maintain an awareness of each
students emotional strength as well as their academic strength. 

John Warrior
The University of Tulsa
Tulsa, Oklahoma



[john.r.warrior at cox.net] 
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Today's Topics:

   1. [Assessment 1226] Re: (no subject) (Forrest Chisman)
   2. [Assessment 1227] Re: Multiple Intelligences and
      Differentiated Instruction--registration opens (Forrest Chisman)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 22:30:48 -0500
From: "Forrest Chisman" 
Subject: [Assessment 1226] Re: (no subject)
To: "'The Assessment Discussion List'" 
Message-ID: <001e01c86acc$2c657b60$85307220$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I think that it's almost entirely a matter of resources, Both the feds and
the states are willing to pay for student contact hours, but not much to
help improve the skills teachers bring to the "contact." Ultimately, this is
a policy/budgetary issue at the highest levels, I think. And the ESL field
as well as others will have to organize themselves to fight for it in the
corridors of power.

Forrest    

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of valerie.woodard
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 6:30 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1218] Re: (no subject)

I would love to hear from the group about "professional development"
challenges you face. How do we in-part learning theory to part-time staff
with degrees but no educational back ground.  How do we tap into the
importance of training and have staff identify with continuing professional
development. It seems to me that it would be of benefit to look at the
experience of the Adult Education instructors and requirement from the
federal grant but local authority can make up a large part of the
requirement they have adopted which does not put professional development up
front?  Resources are needed to help instructors stay sharp for the
students. 

 

Valerie Y. Woodard, MA
Program Director
Research, Evaluation & Staff Development
Community & Adult Education
Houston Community College
3100 Main St, Rm BD07E
Houston, Texas  77002
 
713-718-5363 Office
713718-5377  Fax
 
http://www.hccs.ed/adulted.mov  

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Fri 2/8/2008 3:49 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1207] Re: (no subject)



Jodi,

 

I think that's a fantastic conceptualization. As you know, I am not
well-versed in learning theory, but I can't help believing that these kinds
of ideas would be invaluable to teachers. I would love to hear from the
group whether they think most of their teachers are "up on" these kinds of
insights from learning theory and apply them. Or is this part of the
"professional development" challenge we face. It seems to me that it would
be tragic if we don't have the resources to help teachers tap into as much
of this as there is.

 

Forrest    

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 11:40 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1184] Re: (no subject)

 

Kevin,

 

Are many of your students what we now refer to as generation 1.5 students?
They have had much or most of their education in this country, but may still
need extensive help with academic English, especially in writing?

 

If so, are there any special things that you have tried to help this
population?

 

Do you also have international students?

 

Joy Reid has written extensively about "ear" learners (generation 1.5
learners would likely be here) and "eye" learners and how their needs are so
different.  Ear learners are those who were immersed in an English-speaking
environment and have learned their English orally.  As you suggest, they
have strong Basic Interpersonal Communication Skills or social language, but
may not have developed the academic language required for success in the
community college.  Eye learners are just the opposite: they have learned
English through books and lack the fluency of ear learners, but are more
likely to have more standard English  While these two groups share some
common needs, they are also very different in others.  It's a real
challenge.  Getting these ear learners prepared for the college is something
that lots of people are talking and writing about.

 

There is also the problem with the first group that they speak English and
often are offended when told they need more English, especially when it's
ESL!

 

In effect you are teaching only credit ESL, is that right?  Are there
linkages with any of the programs in the community that are teaching lower
level ESL?

 

Jodi  

On Feb 8, 2008, at 10:42 AM, Forrest Chisman wrote:





Kevin,

 

Thanks for the explanation. I find it VERY useful. It's a very interesting
model. I'm not surprised that your students are motivated for college,
because they've signed up for a college prep track! What worries me are the
limited aspirations of many lower level ESL students who may have college
potential. 

 

I understand now why you don't have the resources to operate a more
comprehensive program. I've heard an increasing number of stories about
areas were the LEA runs the federal/state  adult education ESL grant program
and has asked the local college to take it over (because the LEA has
concluded it's an "adult" program). Have there been any rumblings of that in
your area?

 

Best of luck in your good work.

 

Forrest    

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 9:42 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List; The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1174] Re: (no subject)

 

I believe we do have a hard time getting enough students fed into our
program and with the appropriate background to succeed if they do come to
us. It is a real problem. There are some workplace ESL programs which are
run through our Corporate and Continuing Education Office, but those
students rarely, if ever, come to us. And they serve the employees of
specific companies as opposed to the community at large. 

 

Our ESL program is within an academic department in the college
(Communication and Languages) and so is run like every other. ESL students
pay the same tuition and fees as all other students at the college. We do
not receive special government funding beyond what the state and counties
provide for the college as a whole as a part of our yearly budget.

 

Finances are probably a big reason why we are getting fewer students at the
low levels. Community programs are free or low cost; although in the scheme
of higher education, the community college is less expensive, it may still
be out of reach of many students. 

 

In terms of having a more comprehensive program, we are limited by a small
staff, and the unlikelihood of being able to expand given college budgeting
restraints. In addition, our three full-time faculty members (including
myself) not only teach 15 credit hours per semester but also do the
administrative work required. We do advising, scheduling, and the many other
tasks associate with keeping the program afloat. The only "official"
administrative support for the program is through the 3 hours of overload I
receive to serve as Adjunct Coordinator. 

 

The belief that they can attend college does not seem to be a problem with
our population although I can certainly see that it could be. A growing
problem for us (and many around the country) is the disconnect between high
schools and colleges in terms of student preparation. Either the high
schools do not think the students are college-bound and so don't bother to
give them a college-prep course of study, or there is simply a growing gap
between the expectations of each. Additionally, students seem to think that
a high school diploma equates to college readiness.

 

We do our best to advise students, but we don't always have enough time -
and as professors primarily - may not know ourselves what all of the options
for students are. 

 

Kevin 

 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Thu 2/7/2008 10:38 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1172] Re: (no subject)

Dear Kevin,

 

Many thanks for providing all of us with a profile of your program. Seeing
the variety of college program goals and designs is extremely valuable in
stimulating ideas about how to do a better job in delivering ESL.

 

Personally, I think that it is perfectly valid for colleges to elect to
offer solely pre-academic ESL at the non-credit level. But it does prompt
the concern about whether other programs in the college's service area are
providing non-academic ESL to large enough numbers of students and at a high
enough quality to "feed" the college program - as well as how well their
efforts articulate with yours. I wonder whether this troubles you, and if so
whether/how you have addressed the issue.  Frankly, I think one reason why
many colleges offer comprehensive ESL programs is that they would prefer to
"make" pre-academic students themselves, rather than rely on others to do
it. Another reason, of course, if that they may not be eligible for
federal/state grant money unless they offer comprehensive programs. Does
your college receive these funds to support its pre-academic program? If
not, how is it supported financially?

 

I heartily agree that helping students set realistic goals and understand
their options is essential. I believe, however, that encouraging students to
expand their goals as they succeed is also essential. For example, many
immigrants come from countries where going to college is the privilege of
very few, and thus may consider that an unrealistic goal  unless they are
encouraged to take the steps necessary (often one step at a time). The
problem seems to be that it is hard for most programs to find the resources
to provide very much guidance of any of these kinds to most students. I
wonder if anyone has any solutions to THAT issue. 

 

In any event, many thanks for fleshing out an interesting model.  

 

Forrest     

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Hinkle, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:19 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1148] (no subject)

 

Hi All,

 

I have been reading most of the discussion comments and wanted to address a
few issues. First, however, I'll give a summary of our program. 

 

I teach ESL at Raritan Valley Community College in New Jersey. Our program
serves approximately 350 students from diverse language backgrounds. Our
program offers two pre-academic levels of all skills ESL instruction (a six
hour per week non-credit class). In addition, we have 5 levels of academic
ESL preparation divided into three courses - Reading/Writing, Grammar, and
Speaking/Listening). Our highest level Reading/Writing course gives
successful students 6 elective credits that count towards RVCC graduation,
but those credits do not transfer. Our semesters are 15 weeks. If a student
misses 20% of any class, the instructor may withdraw that student (they are
not, however, obliged to withdraw these students). At the moment, the late
enrollment policy is that students may register for a course prior to the
second week of class but not thereafter. Research, of course, indicates that
students who begin a class late have a much higher rate of failure than
those who begin on time
 . 

 

In our program, we have three full-time faculty and approximately 16-18
adjuncts. 

 

We have focused our program on academic prep ESL because we are a small
program with limited resources, and we have a very difficult time finding
qualified adjuncts. Also, a significant majority of our students have
signalled their intention to obtain a college degree. Moreover, there are
community programs that offer basic English skills although there is often a
long waiting list to obtain the services. In other issues, we use the
Accuplacer ESL test for placement and have in-house standardized tests at
the end of each level of grammar and reading/writing

 

Within our classes, highly educated non-native speakers usually progress
much more quickly. One of the most challenging groups is students who
graduated from local high schools but still have inadequate English skills -
and not infrequently, weak academic skills in general. One of the strategies
that I would personally wish for is real communication between K-12 and
community colleges so that students get the language skills they need before
they enter college. I understand that there is great pressure to move
students out of ESL in many school districts, but ultimately, it does a huge
disservice both financially and in terms of motivation to students whose
skills remain more BICS than CALP. 

 

I agree with those who suggest that first language literacy issues should be
addressed before students enter ESL. However, it becomes complicated to find
funding and support for such efforts. In my experience, students with low
level literacy skills become frustrated and are not ultimately successful -
probably by any definition. I am uncomfortable with the idea that they are
spending hard-earned money when the chances for success in ESL are minimal.
We advise students that the program is academically-oriented; often they
have little understanding of what that means. 

 

I do not agree with the suggestion that the bar be lowered so that students
with low-intermediate skills be allowed in credit classes (at least at my
college). Historically, other faculty have little experience handling
language issues and are very unhappy when students cannot read, write and
converse at an appropriate level of English. They end up feeling helpless.
Students may pass classes; however, I suspect that instructors do not want
to deal with the challenges and so turn a blind eye and let them through.
Recently, there has been a problem in the nursing department with non-native
English speaking students not passing board exams because they enter the
college from other programs and circumvent ESL with us. They have trouble
reading and answering questions on the exam. This is a significant problem
because nursing programs are judged in terms of the success of their
students on these standardized exams. 

 

I think the measure of success should be based on a realistic assessment of
student goals combined with a real-life discussion of the possibilities and
limitations. Ideally, students would have incremental goals so that success
could build. If the goals for students with low literacy levels are not
carefully discussed and planned, then they will likely encounter more
failure than success because their expectaions will be unrealistic. The more
we have the opportunity to talk to students, the more likely it is that they
can develop short-term goals that are within their reach. Unfortunately, we
have no control over the myriad of complications that accrue in their every
day lives. 

 

Apologies for the length.

 

Kevin Hinkle, Ph.D.

Assistant Professor of ESL/Adjunct Coordinator

-------------------------------

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Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

 

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

Professor and Director

Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program

Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education

University of Maryland Baltimore County

1000 Hilltop Circle

Baltimore, MD 21250

tel:  410-455-2313

fax: 410-455-8947

eml: crandall at umbc.edu

 

 





 

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Assessment mailing list
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 22:35:19 -0500
From: "Forrest Chisman" 
Subject: [Assessment 1227] Re: Multiple Intelligences and
 Differentiated Instruction--registration opens
To: "'The Assessment Discussion List'" 
Message-ID: <001f01c86acc$d0a4e800$71eeb800$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Bonnie,

 

Good for you. You?ve obviously had (and are having) a remarkable career.
This can only enhance it.

 

Forrest

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Bonnie Odiorne
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 7:33 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1219] Re: Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
Instruction--registration opens

 

I am going to try the course; I just registered. As I've been following the
discussion with interest, I've been very intrigued by the issue of multiple
ihntelligences as they impact college transition, differentiated classrooms
(from the point of view of skills levels as well as intrinsic motivation)
and the increasing number of "developmental" students, regardless of their
educational backgrounds. If colleges and universities could get out of the
"developmental" model to a curriculum revision model that enhances
instructional changes (faculty are now talking about Bloom's taxonomy as a
starting point for curriculum revision), including differentiated
instruction... I do this wearing several hats: while I was in adult
education previously, in various ABE/ESOL programs, including tutor training
(so the comments about CBOs and standards for volunteers is a very difficult
topic), family, workplace, employability with technological enhancement
literacy programs ccombining ABE and ESOL students, I am now teaching French
(?!; it used to be ESOL but the university did away with its formalized
program) developmental English composition, freshman college success
seminars, working with a summer "bridge" program for at risk students, and I
am also director of the university writing center. Writing across the
curriculum, writing to learn, and multiple intelligences seemed to me to be
answers to the differentiated classroom. I also identify with funding: my
jobs are both part-time... and assesment (I work with the learning center to
administer Accuplacer). We also have a lot of developmental problems with
online students so I do writing center advising electronically....
Coincidentally, I'd been invited to facilitate an Oakland Unified Schools
District ESOL teachers' retreat with a mindfulness activity (I chose walking
the labyrinth) in relation to multiple intelligences, but I couldn't get the
life scan fingerprinting done in time, alas. I may have some role in this
program but I'm not quite sure what. In any event, when things come together
like this, I tend to listen up,  so thought I needed to take advantage of
the opportunity to take the course. 

Cheers, all you dedicated practitioners out there. 

Bonnie Odiorne, Ph.D. Post University Waterbury CT

----- Original Message ----
From: Forrest Chisman 
To: The Assessment Discussion List 
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2008 1:38:48 PM
Subject: [Assessment 1194] Re: Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
Instruction--registration opens

Very interesting. Anyone going to try it?

 

Forrest

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Kaye Beall
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:41 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1181] Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated
Instruction--registration opens

 

World Education is pleased to offer Multiple Intelligences and
Differentiated Instruction as an online training. 

 

The course syllabus and registration details are attached. Contact Kaye
Beall at kaye_beall at worlded.org with questions.

************************

 

Adult Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated Instruction

 

Course Dates: March 12?May 13, 2008; Online chats during Lessons 3, 4, and 5

 

Course Description

Research conducted by the National Center for the Study of Adult Learning
and Literacy shows that instructional practices inspired by Multiple
Intelligences (MI) theory resulted in high levels of authentic instruction
and student engagement.

Integrate your understanding of Multiple Intelligences (MI) theory with the
power of differentiated instruction in this facilitated, eight-session
course. You?ll learn how to apply MI theory and differentiate instruction
for all levels of adult basic education and English for speakers of other
languages. The facilitator will guide you as you develop your own MI-based
lessons.

 

Objectives

Upon completion of this course you will be able to:

*Apply the theory of multiple intelligences (MI) to design learning
activities that match your learning objectives

*Use varying methods of differentiated instruction (DI) that address the
different skills and interests of your learners

*Apply knowledge of your own MI profile to your classroom teaching

*Produce and reflect on a lesson or unit using both MI and DI

 

Required Text:

Viens, Julie and Silja Kallenbach. Multiple Intelligences and Adult
Literacy: A Sourcebook for Practitioners. (New York: Teachers College Press,
2004. Copies of the required textbook can be obtained from the publisher,
Teachers College Press (TCP), the publisher at
http://store.tcpress.com/0807743461.shtml. The cost is $27.95 per copy.

 

Course Format and Schedule: facilitated, online

During this eight-week course, you will engage in self-paced activities and
readings, as well as asynchronous discussions with the facilitators and
course participants. Three synchronous chats will be scheduled during
Lessons 3, 4, and 5.

 

Syllabus: See attached PDF?AMI Course Details.

 

Course Facilitator: Wendy Qui?ones

 

Estimated Completion Time: 40 hours

 

Registration: Complete and return the attached registration form-[PDF].
Payment must be received prior to enrollment. Registration is limited to 20
participants.

 

Cancellation policy: World Education reserves the right to cancel the course
if the minimum number of registrants is not met by March 4, 2008.

 

Kaye Beall

Project Director

World Education

6760 West Street

Linn Grove, IN 46711

765-717-3942

kaye_beall at worlded.org

www.worlded.org  

 



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From valerie.woodard at hccs.edu  Tue Feb 12 15:35:54 2008
From: valerie.woodard at hccs.edu (valerie.woodard)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:35:54 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1251] Re: Videos of good teachers teaching ESL
In-Reply-To: <99982867-1B4A-45BD-985A-537DF0E35A5C@umbc.edu>
References: <mailman.2859.1202516755.1030.assessment@nifl.gov>	<D66AE1265AC9B14B9EDD2D3EDA8066F5013EA3A5@shsmail.sanford.org><BAY115-W3632D846C99A003DA9EE24BF280@phx.gbl><8CA3A57E5538229-D78-2005@webmail-de15.sysops.aol.com>
	<99982867-1B4A-45BD-985A-537DF0E35A5C@umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <4B5EE7DED9296B4A94B20684F5289B29DB4571@ADMINMAIL2.ad.hccs.edu>

Thank you this is very important information for professional
development.

 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Jodi Crandall
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 7:02 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Cc: Lynn Savage
Subject: [Assessment 1250] Videos of good teachers teaching ESL

 

I knew that Lynn Savage had developed a series of these some years ago,
so i emailed her to ask if they were still available and also if she
knew of others.

 

What follows is the information that she sent:

 

The title of our series is Teacher Training through Video.  The
publisher is Longman/Pearson.  The videos are now on two DVD's -  6
lessons each - 1 on lesson planning and 5 on lower level techniques on
one DVD; the other 6 of high level techniques.

About the time we did ours a woman from New York (I can't remember her
name now) also did a series with federal dollars.  I believe they were
published through Laubach Literacy or ProLiteracy.  I don't know if they
are still available. 

The Toronto Board of Education also did something called TESL Vision: A
Video Resource for TESL teaching.  I used part of one of them when I was
doing Peace Corps training.  As I recall, their apporach is more
reflective and less didactic than TTTV.

 

Thanks, Lynn.

 

 

On Feb 10, 2008, at 6:57 PM, jhalaesl at aol.com wrote:





MLOTS (David Rosen in Mass.) was working on a project to produce online
instructional demo/best practices videos. Anyone know of the progress on
that?

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mary Lynn Simons <macsimoin at hotmail.com>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 3:23 pm
Subject: [Assessment 1236] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: Assessment
Digest, Vol 29, Issue 70

Videos of good teachers teaching ESL are tremendously helpful. San Diego
used to use them for new teachers and probably still does. Does anyone
know where to get such videos? The main problem an inexperienced ESL
teacher has is how to elicit language from students, and watching a good
teacher is the best way to learn the  techniques. The biggest mistake
new ESL teachers make is too much talking themselves -- usually talking
about things students cannot possibly understand.

>

<mailto:jhalaesl at aol.com> 
________________________________


More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail
<http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?nci
d=aolcmp00050000000003> !

-------------------------------

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Assessment mailing list

Assessment at nifl.gov

To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

 

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall

Professor and Director

Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program

Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education

University of Maryland Baltimore County

1000 Hilltop Circle

Baltimore, MD 21250

tel:  410-455-2313

fax: 410-455-8947

eml: crandall at umbc.edu

 

 





 

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From macsimoin at hotmail.com  Tue Feb 12 16:05:34 2008
From: macsimoin at hotmail.com (Mary Lynn Simons)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:05:34 +0000
Subject: [Assessment 1252] Re: Videos of good teachers teaching ESL
In-Reply-To: <99982867-1B4A-45BD-985A-537DF0E35A5C@umbc.edu>
References: <mailman.2859.1202516755.1030.assessment@nifl.gov>
	<D66AE1265AC9B14B9EDD2D3EDA8066F5013EA3A5@shsmail.sanford.org>
	<BAY115-W3632D846C99A003DA9EE24BF280@phx.gbl>
	<8CA3A57E5538229-D78-2005@webmail-de15.sysops.aol.com> 
	<99982867-1B4A-45BD-985A-537DF0E35A5C@umbc.edu>
Message-ID: <BAY115-W159F1BDA0B7C404430F205BF2B0@phx.gbl>


Thanks for this!


From: crandall at umbc.eduDate: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:01:33 -0500To: assessment at nifl.govCC: KLynnSav at aol.comSubject: [Assessment 1250] Videos of good teachers teaching ESLI knew that Lynn Savage had developed a series of these some years ago, so i emailed her to ask if they were still available and also if she knew of others. 

What follows is the information that she sent:

The title of our series is Teacher Training through Video.  The publisher is Longman/Pearson.  The videos are now on two DVD's -  6 lessons each - 1 on lesson planning and 5 on lower level techniques on one DVD; the other 6 of high level techniques.
About the time we did ours a woman from New York (I can't remember her name now) also did a series with federal dollars.  I believe they were published through Laubach Literacy or ProLiteracy.  I don't know if they are still available. 
The Toronto Board of Education also did something called TESL Vision: A Video Resource for TESL teaching.  I used part of one of them when I was doing Peace Corps training.  As I recall, their apporach is more reflective and less didactic than TTTV.

Thanks, Lynn.
 


On Feb 10, 2008, at 6:57 PM, jhalaesl at aol.com wrote:

MLOTS (David Rosen in Mass.) was working on a project to produce online instructional demo/best practices videos. Anyone know of the progress on that?

-----Original Message-----From: Mary Lynn Simons <macsimoin at hotmail.com>To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>Sent: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 3:23 pmSubject: [Assessment 1236] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: Assessment Digest, Vol 29, Issue 70
Videos of good teachers teaching ESL are tremendously helpful. San Diego used to use them for new teachers and probably still does. Does anyone know where to get such videos? The main problem an inexperienced ESL teacher has is how to elicit language from students, and watching a good teacher is the best way to learn the  techniques. The biggest mistake new ESL teachers make is too much talking themselves -- usually talking about things students cannot possibly understand.>



More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor and Director
Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
Director, Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual Education
University of Maryland Baltimore County
1000 Hilltop Circle
Baltimore, MD 21250
tel:  410-455-2313
fax: 410-455-8947
eml: crandall at umbc.edu


_________________________________________________________________
Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.?You IM, we give.
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From jhalaesl at aol.com  Tue Feb 12 18:07:24 2008
From: jhalaesl at aol.com (jhalaesl at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:07:24 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1253] Re: Videos of good teachers teaching ESL
In-Reply-To: <BAY115-W159F1BDA0B7C404430F205BF2B0@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.2859.1202516755.1030.assessment@nifl.gov>	<D66AE1265AC9B14B9EDD2D3EDA8066F5013EA3A5@shsmail.sanford.org>	<BAY115-W3632D846C99A003DA9EE24BF280@phx.gbl>	<8CA3A57E5538229-D78-2005@webmail-de15.sysops.aol.com>
	<99982867-1B4A-45BD-985A-537DF0E35A5C@umbc.edu>
	<BAY115-W159F1BDA0B7C404430F205BF2B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8CA3BE32996A731-A58-31BC@webmail-stg-d08.sysops.aol.com>

evelynrenner.com/greatstart5

Evelyn Renner no longer travels to present her workshops but has put together some tools for instructors and tutors. I have not used the GreatStart5 program, but suspect the materials are of the same high quality as others from E. Renner Associates.

Joanne 
Literacy Services
Jointure for Community Adult Education, Inc.



 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mary Lynn Simons <macsimoin at hotmail.com>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 4:05 pm
Subject: [Assessment 1252] Re: Videos of good teachers teaching ESL














Thanks for this!






From: crandall at umbc.edu
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:01:33 -0500
To: assessment at nifl.gov
CC: KLynnSav at aol.com
Subject: [Assessment 1250] Videos of good teachers teaching ESL

I knew that Lynn Savage had developed a series of these some years ago, so i emailed her to ask if they were still available and also if she knew of others. 





What follows is the information that she sent:






The title of our series is Teacher Training through Video.? The publisher is Longman/Pearson.? The videos are now on two DVD's -? 6 lessons each - 1 on lesson planning and 5 on lower level techniques on one DVD; the other 6 of high level techniques.


About the time we did ours a woman from New York (I can't remember her name now) also did a series with federal dollars.? I believe they were published through Laubach Literacy or ProLiteracy.? I don't know if they are still available.?


The Toronto Board of Education also did something called TESL Vision: A Video Resource for TESL teaching.? I used part of one of them when I was doing Peace Corps training.? As I recall, their apporach is more reflective and less didactic than TTTV.






Thanks, Lynn.


?












>
























 

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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Tue Feb 12 13:56:07 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:56:07 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1254] Standardized tests versus Persistence as factors
	affecting ESL achievement
Message-ID: <049b01c86da8$ed7f5ee0$0202a8c0@LITNOW>


Subscribers, the following post is from Ajit Gopalakrishnan.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Please pardon this lengthy post.

Standardized achievement assessments that measure overall literacy
ability (e.g. CASAS, TABE, NAAL, NAEP, GED, etc.), especially if they
are group-administered and involve selected response items, may not
provide the instructor with an exhaustive and in-depth analysis of every
facet of the basic skill for every learner in the classroom. Good
teachers and programs routinely supplement with formative assessments.
That said, results from standardized achievement assessments can inform
the teacher of the ability level for each student. An item analysis can
also tell the teacher about the general areas of strengths and
weaknesses for individual students and the class as a whole --
information that can inform curriculum/lesson planning.

In the CASAS system (which I am most familiar with), the CASAS
competencies form the curricular backbone. These competencies were
developed and are periodically revalidated with a broad stakeholder
constituency. In recent years, content standards have also been
developed that identify the basic skills that underlie these
competencies. Priority competencies identified by these stakeholders
form the basis for assessment development.

These priority competencies act like "power standards". However, when
developing curriculum and lesson plans, we recommend that the
instructional content go beyond the competencies measured on the
pre-test and incorporate other competencies from the master list that
may also be important and relevant to the learners. Because we are
talking about measuring basic skill ability and not subject matter
knowledge like social studies or biology, instruction in a broader set
of competencies and the basic skills that underlie them can facilitate
transferable learning that ultimately contributes to greater performance
on the post-assessment.

When it comes to measuring progress, I feel that a CASAS
post-test-assessment does measure what students are learning because it
is assessing learners on the same standards (i.e. CASAS competencies and
basic skill content standards) and performance levels that were used for
(i) the baseline pre-test assessment, (ii) the development of
curriculum, and (iii) the delivery of instruction.

Because the NRS expects learners to substantially improve their literacy
ability from pre-to-post test by demonstrating movement from one
literacy level to the next, progress in one or two sub-components of a
basic skill (e.g. converting percents to fractions or learning a new
grammar rule) may in and of itself be insufficient to achieve an NRS
level completion. This can be frustrating for a teacher who may have
noticed student progress in class work but not see it reflected in the
standardized assessment results.

Sometimes, even if the curriculum and instruction are aligned to the
standards, learners may get tripped up in the assessment by a certain
vocabulary word, by the context of a test item (Jim gave the example of
his student who was Buddhist monk from Cambodia), one of the
distractors, a writing prompt, etc. Additionally, though standardization
brings validity and reliability to the process of measuring progress
(which I believe has been vital to maintaining the credibility and
funding of adult education at all levels), it [standardization] tags
along some "standard measurement error" wherein some fluctuation in
scores is not out of the realm of accepted possibility. Computer
adaptive testing can minimize this measurement error even further but it
may lessen the diagnostic information provided because different
students are administered different test items. All these issues are not
unique to assessments used for the NRS but are inherent to the process
of standardization.

Results from assessments that require students to "construct" their
response instead of "selecting" from a set of choices can help this
matter somewhat by providing more information that informs instruction.
Over the past 10 years, CASAS has developed standardized constructed
response assessments such as the functional writing assessment and the
workplace speaking assessment. Here, the student responses provide much
richer information to inform instruction than might be available from a
multiple choice test. With extensive training, ongoing recertification,
and stringent inter-rater reliability practices, these tests can also
serve as reliable standardized assessments for NRS accountability
purposes. The challenges here are related to cost and scalability. These
assessments are administered and/or scored one-on-one and the adult
education system is just not resourced currently to implement this level
of assessment for all learners in the system.

Despite all these issues, in my experience, programs that reflect good
outcomes on standardized assessments (both constructed and selected
response) encompass more of the characteristics of high quality
programs, and are more effective at helping learners to achieve their
goals. They have strong leaders, aligned curriculum and instructional
practices throughout the program, instruction of reasonable intensity
and duration, counseling and other support services, and higher rates of
learner persistence and attendance. This has been reaffirmed for me
through extensive analyses of Connecticut's performance and funding
data, reviews of local curriculum, observations of classroom
instruction, and conversations with practitioners in CT and in other
states.

We are also beginning to see in our data that achieving higher levels of
basic skill proficiency as evidenced on CASAS assessments translates to
measurable success outside the classroom e.g. greater probabilities of
passing the GED test, greater employment rates, greater average
earnings, etc.

One thing I will say about the NRS reporting framework is that instead
of using a level completion approach, a growth model may more accurately
capture the progress a student is making, regardless of his/her starting
point in a functioning level. For example, in one of our high performing
programs, only 18% of learners at the advanced ESL level (which spans 15
CASAS scale score points) completed that level while 58% of learners
demonstrated a significant gain of 4-scaled score points from
pre-to-post test. For this reason, in CT, we evaluate scaled-score point
growth as a separate measure within our accountability framework that is
different from level completion.

In conclusion, the big challenge from my perspective is not that the
assessments do not reliably capture the progress made by learners or
measure what is taught in the classroom. The real challenge is that a
majority of the ESL students just don't stay long enough to make
significant progress, regardless of the assessment used. As I stated
earlier, two CASAS studies with CA and CT data and now the recent BEST
study with MA and IL data confirm that higher success rates are
attainable if students stay for at least 100 hours in a fiscal year, but
the reality is that a majority of ESL students don't do that. One just
needs to compare the results from NRS Table 4 (all learners) with that
of Table 4B (those with matched pre-post tests), for any state that has
sound assessment practices and a reliable data system, to see this
persistence issue manifested over and over and over again. Strategies to
improve persistence - now that's another discussion.

Ajit


Ajit Gopalakrishnan
Connecticut Department of Education
25 Industrial Park Road
Middletown, CT 06457
Phone: (860) 807-2125
Fax: (860) 807-2062
Email: ajit.gopalakrishnan at ct.gov





-----Original Message-----

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Schneider, Jim

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 12:30 PM

To: The Assessment Discussion List

Subject: [Assessment 1190] Re: {Dangerous Content?} assessments



Forrest,



Having read everything I can find that you have written in the past 17

years, dim is the least of terms I'd use to describe you. (I'm working

on a Ph.D proposal dealing with the marginality of community college ABE

programs).



The issue with standardized tests, NRS, NCLB, etc. is that they are

trying to impose Frederick Taylor's principles of scientific management

to people. The variables involved with forging steel are certainly

complex, but finite in comparison to the variables involved with nearly

any aspect of working with people.



An incredible instructor can make a poorly conceived curriculum work,

whereas the best curriculum in the world will languish in the hands of a

mediocre to poor teacher.



Similarly, standardized assessments are a weak, artificial means of

assessing skills.



I do like CASAS for the life & work orientation over a more academic

assessment such as TABE. However, even the life and work orientation is

highly dependent on the experiences of the learner. This morning I have

a Buddhist monk from Cambodia enrolling in our program. He has completed

16 years of education in Cambodia, his listening, speaking, and writing

are all exemplary relative to our typical ESL student. However, he is

struggling with the last section on a CASAS C level reading assessment

because of the context of the material being presented. I suspect that

he will do well, but his struggle exemplifies the weakness of using

standardized assessment and expecting standardized results. Educating

people is significantly more complex than forging steel... We are

learning how to become more effective in our approaches, but I cannot

fathom teaching and learning ever being "standardized" to the extent of

those who seem to believe that NRS/NCLB etc. is the answer to the

question.



Jim S.



-----Original Message-----

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]

On Behalf Of Forrest Chisman

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 10:14 AM

To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'

Subject: [Assessment 1183] Re: {Dangerous Content?} assessments



Jim,



Very interesting, and thanks. What puzzles me is that a lot of people

seems to say, as you do, that CASAS and other standardized tests work

well for NRS, but not for teaching/learning. But if the purpose of NRS

is to determine how much students are learning in particular programs,

how can this be so? Maybe I'm just dumb about this, but I'd rather

confess my ignorance than live with it. Shouldn't NRS be measuring what

your students are actually learning? And if CASAS and other standardized

tests don't do that, don't we need either a better assessment system, or

a better way of reporting to NRS by other means.



As I say, maybe I'm just dim.



Forrest      



-----Original Message-----

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]

On Behalf Of Schneider, Jim

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 10:31 AM

To: The Assessment Discussion List

Subject: [Assessment 1177] Re: {Dangerous Content?} assessments



CASAS is the assessment of choice (mandated) in Iowa. If teachers and

learners buy into competency-based instruction, the CASAS assessments

have some utility. The short-comings and artificiality of standardized

tests seem to be amplified with the ESL.



The reading and listening tests fall short of providing a comprehensive

useful assessment of the student's abilities at orientation. We offer

three levels in the morning, beginning, intermediate, and advanced, with

the placement being done using their writing (application), speaking and

listening (initial interview questions), and reading (based on the

literacy demonstrated with the application and interview).



However, due to the mix of skills, the beginning and intermediate are

really blended multi-level classes with some beginners who can read, but

struggle with speech and writing, and some intermediate who can speak

very clearly, but struggle with the reading and writing and virtually

every other possible combination.



Similarly, teachers and students have been frustrated with the lack of

progress in post-testing as well as the inconsistency of the scores.

Those students that bring high literacy skills to the class tend to have

fairly consistent scores. Those who are not as literate (and are a

growing population in ESL) can swing up and down the scaled score

throughout the year with little rhyme or reason.



Bottom line - CASAS works well for the standardization required by NRS,

but is not as powerful or useful in regard to teaching and learning as

one would like.



Jim Schneider



-----Original Message-----

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]

On Behalf Of Forrest Chisman

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 8:16 PM

To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'

Subject: [Assessment 1170] Re: {Dangerous Content?} assessments



Gail,



Good question!!!!!!!!!! I'd be interested in the replies. Because CASAS

is MANDATED in many states, and most programs don't want to use more

than one assessment (because of limited time for testing and fear of

over-testing).

What do you all think of CASAS for ESL?



Forrest



-----Original Message-----

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]

On Behalf Of Gail Burnett

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:08 PM

To: assessment at nifl.gov

Subject: [Assessment 1162] {Dangerous Content?} assessments



Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed

Warning: (not named).

Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more

information.



All the discussion on this list (the first I've ever joined) has been

fascinating. I have a question I haven't seen addressed. Someone said

that the BEST-Plus is the only valid kind of test for ESL learners. What

does anyone think of the CASAS? That's what we use with our adult

students, both ELLs and native speakers. I know it wasn't designed for

ESL use but it does use real-life material (road maps, pay stubs, store

signs, etc.) and I think that's good. What has always bothered me is

that it's taken silently. That doesn't seem right for our lower level

students, who rarely make many gains.

I wonder if it's considered valid for them or not. I know that other ESL

programs do use it.



Thanks.






From kbeall at onlyinternet.net  Mon Feb 11 20:59:44 2008
From: kbeall at onlyinternet.net (Kaye Beall)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:59:44 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1255]  The Change Agent: Democracy in Action, March 2008
Message-ID: <00cf01c86d1a$f6c23880$030ba8c0@D14J7YD1>

COMING SOON: Democracy in Action
The Change Agent, March 2008

Thinking about how to integrate all the election-year buzz into your
classroom? Wondering how to invite students into a conversation about civic
participation that includes voting but goes beyond it as well? Looking for
lessons that evoke deep thinking about the meaning of democracy and the many
ways adults participate in public life? 

Like every issue of The Change Agent, the upcoming issue is packed with
student writing, multi-level articles and activities, graphics, quotes,
ready-to use lesson plans, math problems, and more! The Change Agent comes
out twice a year - in March and September. Each issue explores a topic
relevant to the lives of adult learners. 

And *unlike* any other issue of The Change Agent, the upcoming issue
features a brand new tool -- links to audio so that learners can listen to
student contributors read their pieces out loud. Now you can read the text
in The Change Agent *and* listen to it online! Plus, it's longer than a
typical issue -- over 80 pages!

ORDER NOW! Order for yourself (one or two year subscriptions are available
for $10 and $18 respectively), or get enough to share (bulk subscriptions
include 25 copies of each issue, 2 issues a year, for $60/year). Subscribe
by visiting our web site ( <http://www.nelrc.org/changeagent>
www.nelrc.org/changeagent) or calling 617-482-9485 ext. 3740.

 

Kaye Beall

Project Director

World Education

6760 West Street

Linn Grove, IN 46711

765-717-3942

kaye_beall at worlded.org

www.worlded.org

 

 

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From tsticht at znet.com  Wed Feb 13 12:18:54 2008
From: tsticht at znet.com (tsticht at znet.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:18:54 -0800
Subject: [Assessment 1256]  Reading Today article
Message-ID: <1202923134.47b3267eab000@webmail.znet.net>

Colleagues: I am pleased to report that the following article appears in the
Vol. 25, No. 4, February/March 2008 issue of Reading Today, the official
newspaper of the International Reading Association (IRA). Reading Today is
read by over a 100,000 people in more than 30 nations. Tom Sticht

The great literacy testing debacle in the United States

By Thomas G. Sticht

Debacle: n. A total, often ludicrous failure. Online dictionary
at www.answers.com/topic/debacle

The United States seems to be caught up in measurement mania when it comes
to literacy. The No Child Left Behind law calls for extensive testing of
children's reading abilities in different grade levels. For adults, the
U.S. Department of Education (DOE) has developed adult literacy tests,
while Title 2: The Adult Education and Family Literacy Act of the Workforce
Investment Act of 1998 calls for accountability measures that the DOE has
implemented in a national reporting system that makes extensive use of
adult literacy tests.

The actual measurement instruments and procedures for measuring
reading/literacy and
comparing states suffer from major flaws. They all follow different
procedures in their development, which renders them incomparable, hence
interpretations of data produced by comparing the various tests are
essentially meaningless.

Testing children's reading achievement

On page 39 of the June 4, 2007 issue of Time magazine a graph is presented
showing differences between the percentage of fourth graders in each state
who are deemed "proficient" in reading based on each state's different 
standardized test. The graph also shows the percentage deemed "proficient"
on the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP), which is a
standardized test given in all states. There are some very significant
differences between the state and national test results. For instance,
Mississippi reports that nearly 90 percent of fourth graders are proficient
in reading on the state-developed test, while on the NAEP only about 19
percent score as proficient. This is a whopping 71 percentage points
difference.

The Time article reported that when using state test data the average
percentage of fourth graders considered proficient is 70%. On the national
NAEP tests only 30% of U.S. fourth graders score as proficient. This is a
40-point average gap between state and national estimates of fourth-grade
reading proficiency. The state and national tests
use different procedures to determine if children are proficient readers;
hence they are not commensurate. This raises these questions.  Which tests
should be considered valid indicators of the reading achievement level of
the nation's fourth-graders? Should it be, the state or the federal tests -
or perhaps neither?

Testing adult's literacy levels

Jumping ahead to when fourth graders have grown up, the 2003 National
Assessment of Adult Literacy (NAAL) presents data for prose and document
literacy that indicate that in 1992 15% of adults over the age of 16 scored
as proficient on these tests. In 2003, 13% of adults scored as proficient, a
drop of 2%. Surprisingly, only 30% of adult college graduates scored as
proficient in literacy.

Although there are clearly differences between the NAEP reading tests for
fourth graders and adult literacy tests, again rendering them
incommensurate, they both attempt to portray how many of their target
groups are "proficient" in literacy. The data indicate that there are fewer
than half as many adults (13%) who are proficient in literacy as there are
fourth graders (30%) who are proficient using the federal NAEP, and there
are only a fifth as many proficient adults as there are proficient fourth
graders (70%), if the average of the state-made tests are used. This
suggests a tremendous loss of proficiency as children grow into adulthood!

Measuring literacy for accountability

The problem of assessing literacy also shows up in the accountability system
of the nation's Adult Education and Literacy System (AELS), which is made up
of some 3,000 programs funded jointly by federal money from Title 2 of the
Workforce Investment Act of 1998 and state and local funds.

The National Reporting System (NRS) which prepares reports on how well
adults are learning to read in the AELS, has acknowledged that different
states use different standardized tests, with differing amounts of time
between pre- and posttests to assess growth in literacy learning. But
despite the acknowledged lack of comparability in the tests and procedures
used in various states, the NRS computes averages of the percentage of
adults making learning gains throughout the 50 states. Of course, the lack
of comparability in measurement tools and their administration renders
these data totally meaningless and useless to Congress (or anyone else for
that matter) in deciding whether or not states are using their federal
funds responsibly and productively.

The debacle of testing literacy ability

Despite the faults of testing for literacy skills, there is apparently no
hesitancy in using the test results to reward some educators and punish
others for what they are doing to teach literacy, whether to children or
adults. Despite extensive use of standardized tests of various sorts by the
50 states, 30-year reading trend data with the NAEP show minimal if any
improvement  for 9-, 13-, or 17-year-old children since the early 1970s.
Further, the testing of adult literacy in 1992 and again in 2003 shows
little or no improvement in literacy at the lowest levels and a decline at
the highest levels.

To date, then, the great literacy testing debacle has cost hundreds of
millions of dollars, threatened teachers and administrators, subjected
children to hours of drill and practice in test taking rather than engaging
in learning important content and skills, and cast aspersions on the
literacy skills of America's workforce, thus advertising to the world that
the U. S. workforce is incompetent. This cannot be good for the health and
welfare of the nation or its international competitiveness in the global
economy.

Even if we could get literacy testing right - which we have not done up to
now - there is no way we can test ourselves out of the serious educational
problems that afflict our K-12 and adult literacy education systems. There
is a word for the obsessive repetition of utterly foolish, unreasonable,
and failed practices: insanity.

Thomas G. Sticht is an international consultant in adult education and lives
in
El Cajon, California





From vgigliotti at proliteracy.org  Thu Feb 14 10:23:12 2008
From: vgigliotti at proliteracy.org (Val Gigliotti)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:23:12 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1257] Call for Presenters - ProLiteracy Worldwide
	Conference
Message-ID: <DBF40CF21F685B45B1D163F82E43A221522340@miller.proliteracy.org>

Call for Presenters
ProLiteracy Worldwide is now accepting applications to present at the 
2008 annual conference in October at the Peabody, Little Rock, AR
October 2 - 4, 2008
Don't miss the opportunity to showcase your knowledge in the following topic areas:
*	Innovative Instructional Practices 
*	Numeracy 
*	English as a Second Language / Citizenship 
*	Student Involvement & Leadership 
*	Transitions 
*	Program Improvement / Accountability & Innovative Program Practices 
*	Fund Development, Advocacy & Marketing 
*	Technology 
Visit http://www.proliteracy.org/conference/presentations08.asp
to submit your proposal today!
Deadline is April 8, 2008
Valerie Gigliotti, Resource Center Administrator 
Proliteracy Worldwide / Syracuse, NY  13210 / vgigliotti at proliteracy.org



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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Fri Feb 15 12:51:13 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:51:13 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1258]  End of FOB list
Message-ID: <043f01c86ffb$5b8e3560$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

The following post is from Julie McKinney.

*************************

Hi Everyone,

I'm sorry that this snuck up on us, but the FOB list is, sadly, ending
on February 29th. Focus on Basics, the publication, has two more issues
funded and in the works, but is still looking for a permanent funding
source. Without such a source, we are unable to continue this list as
one of the topics on the National Institute for Literacy Discussion
Lists.

During the last week in February we will have FOB editor, Barb Garner,
share some reflections and thoughts, and we will tell you more about the
other discussion lists that will continue to provide a forum to discuss
adult literacy research and practice.

I do hope that you can all join us for our last discussion next week! 

More to follow,
Julie

*************************
Hi Everyone,

Those last two messages may have been confusing, so I just want to
clarify the next two weeks on the FOB list.  
Here's what's happening:

Feb. 18-22: Guest Discussion with Robin Schwarz on Impediments to ESOL
Learning

Feb. 25-29: Informal talk and reflections with Barb Garner about FOB and
this list.

Feb. 29th: Last day of FOB discussion list  :(

In the next few months: Two new issues of FOB on numeracy and health
literacy!  :)

Please join us for these last list events!

All the best,
Julie


Julie McKinney
Discussion List Moderator
World Education/NCSALL
jmckinney at worlded.org





From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Fri Feb 15 12:52:50 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:52:50 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1259] FW: [ProfessionalDevelopment 1976] Goal
	Assessment for Adult Learners
Message-ID: <044001c86ffb$96714820$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

 
Colleagues:
 
The following was recently posted on the Professional Development
Discussion List.  Any thoughts or suggestions?
 
Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
 
**************************************************
 
 
Hi,
I'm interested in finding out if anyone has recommendations for a
research-based assessment tool to measure students' progress toward
achieving individual goals such as life skills. Our agency is interested
in tracking personal goals of our students, but haven't been able to
find an assessment tool yet. If anyone has suggestions, please let me
know.
 
Thanks! 
 
Amy Rhoades
Manager of Adult Literacy Programs
Christopher House
2507 N. Greenview
Chicago, IL 60614
phone: 773.472.1083 x3082
fax: 773.472.7292
 
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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Fri Feb 15 12:53:59 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:53:59 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1260] Discussion next week on FOB list: Impediments to
	ESOL learning
Message-ID: <045401c86ffb$be8bb340$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Subscribers, the following discussion next week might interest some of
you, especially given the topic of our discussion last week.

Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator


**************************
Hi Everyone,

Great News! Next week we will have one final guest discussion here on
the Focus on Basics List. 
Robin Lovrien Schwarz will discuss her article in the recent FOB issue
(8D). 

Sorry for the short notice, folks, but I hope that most of our faithful
readers can join us for this last discussion. Feel free to invite
colleagues to join in.

All the best,
Julie

************************
Guest Discussion: Addressing Potential Impediments to Learning with ESOL
Students
February 18-22, 2008
On the Focus on Basics Discussion List: To subscribe or view the
archives, please go to:

http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/Focusonbasics 
**************************
We will discuss the following article with Robin, the author:

Addressing Potential Impediments to Learning with ESOL Students
http://www.ncsall.net/fileadmin/resources/fob/2007/fob_8d.pdf

Note: Issue 8D is available only in PDF format. You can find this
article on page 20.

Adult ESOL students who are not achieving the expected progress are
often assumed to have learning disabilities. While this may indeed be
the case, there are several other issues that can impede their ability
to learn. This article discusses several of these issues and offers
strategies to assess them and address them.

To prepare, read the following article from FOB 8A, and think about the
Discussion Questions listed below:

Taking a Closer Look at Struggling ESOL Learners
by Robin L. Schwarz 
http://www.ncsall.net/?id=994 

Discussion questions 

1. What are some of the problems of learners in your program who have
not made progress? 
2. Do you think the factors discussed in the article could explain some
struggles you've noticed in your learners? 
3. How have you discovered, and then addressed the issues?
4. How can a program develop a coherent system to identify these issues?
5. What kind of professional development do practitioners need in order
to address these problems?

Julie McKinney
Discussion List Moderator
World Education/NCSALL
jmckinney at worlded.org





From Tina_Luffman at yc.edu  Sat Feb 16 12:58:38 2008
From: Tina_Luffman at yc.edu (Tina_Luffman at yc.edu)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 10:58:38 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1261] Re: FW: [ProfessionalDevelopment 1976]
 Goal	Assessment for Adult Learners
In-Reply-To: <044001c86ffb$96714820$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
References: <044001c86ffb$96714820$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <OF877AF1B2.CA1656C2-ON072573F1.0062C0A6-072573F1.0062C0A7@yc.edu>

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From jataylor at utk.edu  Mon Feb 18 10:06:45 2008
From: jataylor at utk.edu (Taylor, Jackie)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:06:45 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1262]  Join or Renew Membership with AALPD!
Message-ID: <0913EC48F2B05C4FBE4878BAFCABBFEC01AA1500@KFSVS2.utk.tennessee.edu>

Dear Colleagues: 

It's that time of year again! Over the next month, the Association of
Adult Literacy Professional Developers (AALPD) invites you to join or
renew membership with AALPD: 

http://www.aalpd.org/membership_withvoting08.cfm  



AALPD is... 

AALPD is a national organization for professional developers committed
to advancing the field of adult literacy professional development
(http://www.aalpd.org/). Anyone working or interested in professional
development can join. As an affiliate of COABE (Commission on Adult
Basic Education), AALPD meets at COABE Conferences and other
professional development events. AALPD is a member of the National
Coalition for Literacy. 



Vote While You Join or Renew Membership 

While you are joining or renewing membership, you have the opportunity
to vote on the 2008 slate of AALPD officers (Chair, Vice-Chair,
Secretary, and Treasurer). Vote by March 17th!

 
Renewing Membership:


As we grow and expand, we need updated information about our members in
order to advocate effectively for professional development and to
provide members with the best possible services. So, we are asking
everyone to renew their memberships by registering as an AALPD member
each year. 

 

New/Prospective Members: 

If you are not yet a member, are you interested in: 

*         Getting more involved with adult literacy professional
development? 

*         Contributing your voice to shaping PD policy initiatives,
along with other advocates of adult literacy PD? 

*         Taking part in establishing (in the eyes of policy makers) the
legitimacy of a national association of practitioners/PD staff committed
to adult literacy professional development?

 

========================================================================
========

Join or Renew Now: http://www.aalpd.org/membership_withvoting08.cfm
========================================================================
========

 

AALPD 2008 Activities

AALPD is/will be:

*         Visioning and strategic planning for AALPD's role in advancing
adult literacy professional development

*         Advocating for funding for professional development

*         Increasing leadership opportunities by expanding leadership
roles and working groups that align with AALPD priorities

*         Finalizing the AALPD draft quality professional development
standards with feedback from the field (online and in-person at national
PD events)

*         Facilitating the adoption and implementation of professional
development quality standards and recommended AALPD PD Policies

*         Planning the 2009 PreConference and AALPD strand at COABE

*         Strengthening PD networking opportunities

 

AALPD Ongoing Activities

AALPD:

*         Hosts an annual PreConference at COABE

*         Co-sponsors the Adult Literacy Professional Development
discussion list in partnership with the National Institute for Literacy

*         Provides a Professional Development Registry of materials to
which you can find and contribute facilitator materials


AALPD Membership Benefits: 

 

*	Membership is free! 
*	You can vote for AALPD officers and on special issues that arise
(Only AALPD members will be eligible to vote).
*	We will send you the latest information about upcoming
trainings, events and resources. 
*	You can have input into the design of the COABE pre-conference
session next year (2009). 
*	You can choose to participate at various levels of involvement
to further key priorities identified by our members.
*	You can help to strengthen AALPD's voice in advocacy by
demonstrating a strong membership of concerned practitioners committed
to professional development. 

 

To stay abreast of AALPD activities, visit: http://www.aalpd.org/ 



Join or Renew Now: http://www.aalpd.org/membership_withvoting08.cfm 


Thank you for joining or renewing your membership with AALPD. I look
forward to an active year ahead. 

For the AALPD Executive Board, 

Jackie Taylor, Adult Literacy Professional Development List Moderator,
jataylor at utk.edu 
Association of Adult Literacy Professional Developers
http://www.aalpd.org/

 

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From Miriam.Kroeger at azed.gov  Mon Feb 18 13:25:41 2008
From: Miriam.Kroeger at azed.gov (Kroeger, Miriam)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:25:41 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1263] Re: FW: [ProfessionalDevelopment 1976] - A
	clarification
In-Reply-To: <OF877AF1B2.CA1656C2-ON072573F1.0062C0A6-072573F1.0062C0A7@yc.edu>
References: <044001c86ffb$96714820$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
	<OF877AF1B2.CA1656C2-ON072573F1.0062C0A6-072573F1.0062C0A7@yc.edu>
Message-ID: <1C563202F40F27458F337F6B4A3C291D03E25108@prodmail1.prod.root>

The tool that Tina is referring to is not an assessment - rather is a
new data system.   How does anyone validate that a student has achieved
the goal of getting, retaining or improving a job?  Intially this may be
through self-reporting, or if you are able to tap into your state's
employment tracking system and you collect social security numbers, you
may be able to confirm that goal.  Of course, the additional follow-up
requirements are also tricky when you have an extremely mobile
population.  For states that are not working through their labor stats
offices, what processes do you use for follow-up - one month, 3 months
after the student is no longer attending?  
What are the time, personnel and dollar committments needed, as well as
the processes?
 
Miriam Kroeger
 
Miriam A. Kroeger, Education Program Specialist
AZ Dept. of Education, Adult Education Services
1535 W. Jefferson  Bin 26
Phoenix, AZ 85007
 
Phone:  (602) 364-2703
FAX:     (602) 258-4986
Email:   miriam.kroeger at azed.gov <mailto:miriam.kroeger at azed.gov> 
 
Adult Education Policy Reminder:  Disability Status: the learner has a
record of, or is regarded as having, any type of physical or mental
impairment, including a learning disability that substantially limits or
restricts one or more major life activities (e.g., walking, seeing,
hearing, speaking, learning, and working). - NRS Implementation
Guidelines
 
The information contained in this email and any attachments is intended
only for the personal and confidential use of the designated named
herein. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or
an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you
are hereby notified that you have received this document and its
attachment in error, and that any review, dissemination, distribution or
copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received
this communication in error, please notify the sender and return and
delete the original message immediately. Thank you

 
 
 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 10:59 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1261] Re: FW: [ProfessionalDevelopment 1976] Goal
Assessment for Adult Learners


Hi Marie and Amy,
 
I am not sure if this is what you are interested in, but Arizona is
using a new software program called NRSpro. It is our new data capture
instrument for all attendance, goal, and personal information for our
ABE classes. It has a special area for capturing the goals as students
set them and as they achieve them. If you are interested, please contact
the Arizona Department of Education Adult Education team. Miriam
Kroeger, Wilda Theobald, or Paul Franckowiak could help you.
 
Tina

Tina Luffman
Coordinator, Developmental Education
Verde Valley Campus
928-634-6544
tina_luffman at yc.edu


-----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----



	To: "'The Assessment Discussion List'" <assessment at nifl.gov>
	From: "Marie Cora" <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
	Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
	Date: 02/15/2008 10:52AM
	Subject: [Assessment 1259] FW: [ProfessionalDevelopment 1976]
Goal Assessment for Adult Learners
	
	

	  

	Colleagues: 

	  

	The following was recently posted on the Professional
Development Discussion List.   Any thoughts or suggestions? 

	  

	Marie Cora 

	Assessment Discussion List Moderator 

	  

	************************************************** 

	  

	  

	Hi, 

	I'm interested in finding out if anyone has recommendations for
a research-based assessment tool to measure students' progress toward
achieving individual goals such as life skills. Our agency is interested
in tracking personal goals of our students, but haven't been able to
find an assessment tool yet. If anyone has suggestions, please let me
know. 

	  

	Thanks! 

	  

	Amy Rhoades 

	Manager of Adult Literacy Programs 

	Christopher House 

	2507 N. Greenview 

	Chicago , IL 60614 

	phone: 773.472.1083 x3082 

	fax: 773.472.7292 

	  

	-------------------------------
	National Institute for Literacy
	Assessment mailing list
	Assessment at nifl.gov
	To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go
to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
	Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
	


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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Tue Feb 19 13:38:36 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 13:38:36 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1264] FW: Building Alliances - OPEN Discussion related
	to WE LEARN Conference
Message-ID: <012401c87326$a4154cf0$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

 
Open Invitation to Join a WE LEARN Sponsored Discussion
 
Women continue to be separated by culture, language, literacy,
geography; our differences are profound. The daily lives of women in
adult basic/literacy education remain especially complex due to
inequities based on race, class, gender, and other diversities. WE LEARN
5th Annual (Net)Working Gathering & Conference on Women & Literacy  will
explore the differences that divide women and look to ways of building
alliances across those differences.
 
In the spirit of building alliances and networking opportunities, WE
LEARN invites everyone to participate in the key conference themes
through discussion & information sharing forums offered by two key
collaborators: 
NIFL Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy Listserv and Adult Literacy
Education Wiki.
 
We offer these opportunities in order to experiment with a format for
integrating technology (distance learning) into the WE LEARN conference
and into our general networking goals for WE LEARN as an organization.
 
We encourage you to join the conference discussions -- Building
Alliances [Discussing Diversity and Power Issues]. 
For more details please visit:
http://www.litwomen.org/conferences/2008/08conf_dl.html
 
Reminder: DEADLINE to Pre-Register  for the conference is February 23,
2008.
For registration information & forms, visit:
http://www.litwomen.org/conference.html
 
Building Alliances / Construyendo Alianzas
March 7 -8, 2008 at Fordham Univ. at Lincoln Center, NYC
 
Mev Miller, Ed.D., Director
welearn at litwomen.org
 
WE LEARN
Women Expanding: Literacy Education Action Resource Network
www.litwomen.org/welearn.html
 
182 Riverside Ave.
Cranston, RI 02910
401-383-4374
 
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From djrosen at comcast.net  Wed Feb 20 11:00:23 2008
From: djrosen at comcast.net (David J. Rosen)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:00:23 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1265] Formative Assessment in Adult Literacy Education:
	A Special Topics Discussion
Message-ID: <9B939CC6-304A-44D8-B20D-C19C985EAD00@comcast.net>

Colleagues,

Beginning on Monday, February 25th, the Special Topics list will hold  
a discussion on formative assessment, a set of classroom practices  
that substantial research in England has shown to positively affect  
elementary and secondary level student learning outcomes. Not a term  
widely known in the U.S., formative assessment refers to what  
teachers and learners do in the classroom to assess learning  
progress.  An assessment is _formative_ when information gathered in  
the assessment process is used to modify teaching and learning  
activities.  It's an assessment _for_ learning,  not just _of_ learning.

A just-published study sponsored by the Organisation for Economic Co- 
operation and Development (OECD), Teaching, Learning and Assessment  
for Adults: Improving Foundation Skills < http://tinyurl.com/2dksn5 >  
looks at formative assessment practices in adult foundation skills  
(basic skills) classes in several countries among which were the U.S.  
and England. We will have as our guests the researchers who did the  
studies in these two countries. OECD researchers  who studied adult  
formative assessment practices in other countries may also  
participate in the discussion.

In my opinion, not an unbiased one as I was an OECD researcher in  
this study of practices in Flanders Belgium, the study could have an  
important impact on adult literacy education practices in North  
America, and formative assessment could -- as has been shown in K-12  
and higher education studies -- make an important difference for  
students' learning.

I hope you will join my esteemed guests for this discussion.

To subscribe to the discussion, go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/specialtopics .
You can unsubscribe after the discussion by going to the same web  
page or, if you prefer, you can stay subscribed for the next  
discussion, Transition from Corrections to Community Education.

Formative Assessment Guest Experts

Janet Looney
Janet Looney is the project leader of the Centre for Educational  
Research and Innovation program known as What Works in Innovation in  
Education. Since 2002 its focus has been on formative assessment.   
Between 2002 and 2004, the What Works program explored formative  
assessment in lower secondary classrooms in eight international  
systems. [See Formative Assessment: Improving Learning in Secondary  
Classrooms (2005)].  OECD has just published the second study  
addressing formative assessment for adult basic skill learners, whose  
web page was provided above.
Earlier in her career Janet taught ESOL in Japan for over two years,  
and  at the YMCA in Seattle Washington.

John Benseman
John Benseman has been involved in adult education and literacy for  
over 30 years working as a practitioner and program administrator,  
but mainly as a researcher and evaluator. He started his working life  
as a primary (elementary) school teacher, but ?became disillusioned  
with the task of constantly trying to motivate reluctant learners and  
became much more interested in working with adults who were much more  
motivated?. After a year of studying adult education in Sweden, he  
worked in continuing medical education, followed by seven years of  
running a community-based adult education organization and a similar  
period of self-employment as a researcher. After 12 years of teaching  
adult education at the University of Auckland, he moved last year to  
the Department of Labour to run a national workplace literacy  
project. The aim of this project is to identify best practice in  
workplace literacy by evaluating 15 diverse programs throughout New  
Zealand. They are about halfway through and should complete it late  
next year. To date they have interviewed about 250 learners and are  
just starting to get their first post-program data. They expect to  
have data on about 500-600 learners when it is finished.
John?s PhD was an analysis of New Zealand as a learning society. In  
addition to a "zillion" reports, he has edited a book on New Zealand  
adult education and two weeks ago, another one (with Alison Sutton)  
on New Zealand adult literacy. He ?mainly works from home in a study  
that looks out on to beautiful native bush, including a stream and  
lots of native birds?. He says "It?s summer here, so life includes  
jaunts to the beach, enjoying family life, frustrated attempts to  
lower a very average golf handicap and riding a motorbike to beat the  
Auckland traffic. My current project also includes a lot of travel  
round the country to interview people ? a duty that I am even paid to  
do?"

With John Comings, John Benseman did the formative assessment  
research in the U.S., sponsored in part by the National Institute for  
Literacy

John Comings
Dr. John Comings was director of the National Center for the Study of  
Adult Learning and Literacy (NCSALL) during its 11 years of funding  
from the US Department of Education. He is currently Senior Research  
Associate and lecturer at the Harvard Graduate School of Education  
and a consultant on adult education in the U.S. and other countries.  
His research focuses on the impact of adult literacy programs and  
ways to support persistence of adult learners.

John Vorhaus
Dr John Vorhaus is Associate Director, Research, at the National  
Research and Development Centre in Adult Literacy and Numeracy (NRDC)  
at the Institute of Education. He is also Director of the Centre for  
Research on the Wider Benefits of Learning.

John has directed numerous projects on adult literacy, language and  
numeracy, many of these focused on teaching and learning practices,  
and also on disadvantaged groups such as offenders, ethnic minority  
groups and people who are not in education, training or employment.

On-going research is taken up with persons with profound and multiple  
learning difficulties and disabilities; their political status, the  
question of whether and how they are shown respect, and an  
examination of the teaching and learning practices best fitted to  
their needs and abilities.

John has taught philosophy at the Universities of Bristol and London,  
and also in prison, adult and further education, and he continues to  
publish in the areas of political philosophy, philosophy of law and  
philosophy of education.

David J. Rosen
Special Topics Discussion Moderator
djrosen at comcast.net





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From LChenven at 1199funds.org  Wed Feb 20 17:17:37 2008
From: LChenven at 1199funds.org (Laura Chenven)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:17:37 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1266] Re: Formative Assessment in Adult Literacy
	Education:A Special Topics Discussion
In-Reply-To: <9B939CC6-304A-44D8-B20D-C19C985EAD00@comcast.net>
References: <9B939CC6-304A-44D8-B20D-C19C985EAD00@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <5132EB8B3F976744A3EBBA975684E36F5F48EF@NBFMAIL03.1199nbf.net>

Formative assessment - probably the most important type of assessment
that can be done in the classroom - it looks at the individual as well
as the group, uses the talents and skills of the teacher (potentially
the best and most underutilized assessment tool we have) and allows for
continuous adjustment of the teaching and learning process to meet the
needs of students.  Lately I've been engaged in evaluation of adult
education programs (mostly college based) that look at the formative
process in order to give programs the tools to change and modify what
they do to improve outcomes.  Often if we wait for the summative
assessment of the individual or t he summative evaluation of a project
or program, we miss the why.  We don't learn the reason for the outcomes
or get the insight we need to make change. Thanks for the chance to hear
more about this important topic.
 
Laura Chenven
Healthcare Career Advancement Program
National Coordinator 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of David J. Rosen
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:00 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List; The Adult Literacy Professional
Development Discussion List; The Family Literacy Discussion List; The
Adult English Language Learners Discussion List; The Workplace Literacy
Discussion List; The Health and Literacy Discussion List; Women and
Literacy Discussion List The Poverty Race; The Learning Disabilities
Discussion List; The Technology and Literacy Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1265] Formative Assessment in Adult Literacy
Education:A Special Topics Discussion


Colleagues,
 
Beginning on Monday, February 25th, the Special Topics list will hold a
discussion on formative assessment, a set of classroom practices that
substantial research in England has shown to positively affect
elementary and secondary level student learning outcomes. Not a term
widely known in the U.S., formative assessment refers to what teachers
and learners do in the classroom to assess learning progress.  An
assessment is _formative_ when information gathered in the assessment
process is used to modify teaching and learning activities.  It's an
assessment _for_ learning,  not just _of_ learning.
 
A just-published study sponsored by the Organisation for Economic
Co-operation and Development (OECD), Teaching, Learning and Assessment
for Adults: Improving Foundation Skills < http://tinyurl.com/2dksn5 >
looks at formative assessment practices in adult foundation skills
(basic skills) classes in several countries among which were the U.S.
and England. We will have as our guests the researchers who did the
studies in these two countries. OECD researchers  who studied adult
formative assessment practices in other countries may also participate
in the discussion.
 
In my opinion, not an unbiased one as I was an OECD researcher in this
study of practices in Flanders Belgium, the study could have an
important impact on adult literacy education practices in North America,
and formative assessment could -- as has been shown in K-12 and higher
education studies -- make an important difference for students'
learning.
 
I hope you will join my esteemed guests for this discussion.
 
To subscribe to the discussion, go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/specialtopics .
You can unsubscribe after the discussion by going to the same web page
or, if you prefer, you can stay subscribed for the next discussion,
Transition from Corrections to Community Education.
 
Formative Assessment Guest Experts
 
Janet Looney
Janet Looney is the project leader of the Centre for Educational
Research and Innovation program known as What Works in Innovation in
Education. Since 2002 its focus has been on formative assessment.
Between 2002 and 2004, the What Works program explored formative
assessment in lower secondary classrooms in eight international systems.
[See Formative Assessment: Improving Learning in Secondary Classrooms
(2005)].  OECD has just published the second study addressing formative
assessment for adult basic skill learners, whose web page was provided
above.
Earlier in her career Janet taught ESOL in Japan for over two years, and
at the YMCA in Seattle Washington.
 
John Benseman
John Benseman has been involved in adult education and literacy for over
30 years working as a practitioner and program administrator, but mainly
as a researcher and evaluator. He started his working life as a primary
(elementary) school teacher, but "became disillusioned with the task of
constantly trying to motivate reluctant learners and became much more
interested in working with adults who were much more motivated". After a
year of studying adult education in Sweden, he worked in continuing
medical education, followed by seven years of running a community-based
adult education organization and a similar period of self-employment as
a researcher. After 12 years of teaching adult education at the
University of Auckland, he moved last year to the Department of Labour
to run a national workplace literacy project. The aim of this project is
to identify best practice in workplace literacy by evaluating 15 diverse
programs throughout New Zealand. They are about halfway through and
should complete it late next year. To date they have interviewed about
250 learners and are just starting to get their first post-program data.
They expect to have data on about 500-600 learners when it is finished.
John's PhD was an analysis of New Zealand as a learning society. In
addition to a "zillion" reports, he has edited a book on New Zealand
adult education and two weeks ago, another one (with Alison Sutton) on
New Zealand adult literacy. He "mainly works from home in a study that
looks out on to beautiful native bush, including a stream and lots of
native birds". He says "It's summer here, so life includes jaunts to the
beach, enjoying family life, frustrated attempts to lower a very average
golf handicap and riding a motorbike to beat the Auckland traffic. My
current project also includes a lot of travel round the country to
interview people - a duty that I am even paid to do..."
 
With John Comings, John Benseman did the formative assessment research
in the U.S., sponsored in part by the National Institute for Literacy
 
John Comings
Dr. John Comings was director of the National Center for the Study of
Adult Learning and Literacy (NCSALL) during its 11 years of funding from
the US Department of Education. He is currently Senior Research
Associate and lecturer at the Harvard Graduate School of Education and a
consultant on adult education in the U.S. and other countries. His
research focuses on the impact of adult literacy programs and ways to
support persistence of adult learners.
 
John Vorhaus
Dr John Vorhaus is Associate Director, Research, at the National
Research and Development Centre in Adult Literacy and Numeracy (NRDC) at
the Institute of Education. He is also Director of the Centre for
Research on the Wider Benefits of Learning.  
 
John has directed numerous projects on adult literacy, language and
numeracy, many of these focused on teaching and learning practices, and
also on disadvantaged groups such as offenders, ethnic minority groups
and people who are not in education, training or employment. 
 
On-going research is taken up with persons with profound and multiple
learning difficulties and disabilities; their political status, the
question of whether and how they are shown respect, and an examination
of the teaching and learning practices best fitted to their needs and
abilities.  
 
John has taught philosophy at the Universities of Bristol and London,
and also in prison, adult and further education, and he continues to
publish in the areas of political philosophy, philosophy of law and
philosophy of education.
 
David J. Rosen
Special Topics Discussion Moderator
djrosen at comcast.net






?Please note that the email address for the person you are corresponding with has changed.  The new address is listed above.  Please use this new address in all future correspondence.  Thank you?

Health care information is personal and sensitive information. If such information is being emailed to you, it is after appropriate authorization from the patient or under circumstances that do not require patient authorization. You, the recipient, are obligated to maintain it in a safe, secure and confidential manner. Re-disclosure without additional patient consent or as permitted by law is prohibited. Unauthorized re-disclosure or failure to maintain confidentiality could subject you to penalties described in federal and state law. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the related message.


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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Thu Feb 21 12:44:57 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:44:57 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1267]  Passing the Torch - transcript available!
Message-ID: <034601c874b1$7c4bb970$1200000a@LITNOW>

Dear Colleagues,
 
I hope this email finds you well.  
 
Below please find the link to the transcript(s) on our discussion with
Drs. Chisman and Crandall from early this month.
 
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/08passingthetorch_trans
.html
 
This was quite a tricky feat:  the conversation was so rich and had many
tangents that sprung from initial postings.
 
You will see that I decided to divide the discussion into topical areas;
I have placed them in the order (more or less) that each of the topics
was raised.  Some transcripts have a couple of repeat posts so that the
flow of conversation makes sense.  A couple transcripts have links that
refer you to other transcripts because a similar item was mentioned in
another topical area.
 
I did not summarize!  You would have been waiting another month for the
transcript if I did so.  What I decided to do was pull out all the
discussions items within an area, and I have listed these at the top of
each transcript (where appropriate).
 
Alrighty then!  I hope that you find this useful. 
 
As always:  PLEASE PLEASE if you do use this resource - be so kind as to
drop me a note to let me know how you used it and if it was successful.
 
Thanks to all Assessment Discussion List subscribers - you made that
discussion the rich resource that it is!
 
Marie
 
 
 
 
Marie Cora
 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
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From r.millar at uwinnipeg.ca  Fri Feb 22 09:43:02 2008
From: r.millar at uwinnipeg.ca (Robin Millar)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:43:02 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1268] Re: FW: [ProfessionalDevelopment 1976]
	Goal	Assessment for Adult Learners
In-Reply-To: <044001c86ffb$96714820$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
References: <044001c86ffb$96714820$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <47BE8B16020000B00004EB7B@ds1.uwinnipeg.ca>

I suggest you contact Pat Campbell at
E-mail Address(es):
  pcampbell at interbaun.com 

Pat has been researching various modes of assessment in basic skills.


Dr. Robin Millar
Executive Director
Centre for Education and Work
515 Portage Avenue
Winnipeg, MB R3B 2E9
204-786-9495

>>> "Marie Cora" <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> 02/15/08 11:52 AM >>>
 
Colleagues:
 
The following was recently posted on the Professional Development
Discussion List.  Any thoughts or suggestions?
 
Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
 
**************************************************
 
 
Hi,
I'm interested in finding out if anyone has recommendations for a
research-based assessment tool to measure students' progress toward
achieving individual goals such as life skills. Our agency is interested
in tracking personal goals of our students, but haven't been able to
find an assessment tool yet. If anyone has suggestions, please let me
know.
 
Thanks! 
 
Amy Rhoades
Manager of Adult Literacy Programs
Christopher House
2507 N. Greenview
Chicago, IL 60614
phone: 773.472.1083 x3082
fax: 773.472.7292
 



From bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net  Fri Feb 22 14:11:57 2008
From: bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net (Bonnie Odiorne)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:11:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Assessment 1269] Re: FW: [ProfessionalDevelopment 1976] Goal
	Assessment for Adult Learners
Message-ID: <715940.1388.qm@web83310.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hello, al,
I'm looking also for a multi-skills assessment that would benchmark college students (not particularly highly skilled, but perhaps not ABE either, but a fair number of ESOL and developmental) preparing for employment in the various employability as well as the math/reading/writing/communication skills levels needed for a particular career choice.

Bonnie Odiorne, Ph.D.
Wreiting Center, Adjunct Professor, Post University, Waterbury, CT 

----- Original Message ----
From: Robin Millar <r.millar at uwinnipeg.ca>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:43:02 AM
Subject: [Assessment 1268] Re: FW: [ProfessionalDevelopment 1976] Goal Assessment for Adult Learners


I 
suggest 
you 
contact 
Pat 
Campbell 
at
E-mail 
Address(es):
  
pcampbell at interbaun.com 

Pat 
has 
been 
researching 
various 
modes 
of 
assessment 
in 
basic 
skills.


Dr. 
Robin 
Millar
Executive 
Director
Centre 
for 
Education 
and 
Work
515 
Portage 
Avenue
Winnipeg, 
MB 
R3B 
2E9
204-786-9495

>>> 
"Marie 
Cora" 
<marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> 
02/15/08 
11:52 
AM 
>>>
 
Colleagues:
 
The 
following 
was 
recently 
posted 
on 
the 
Professional 
Development
Discussion 
List.  
Any 
thoughts 
or 
suggestions?
 
Marie 
Cora
Assessment 
Discussion 
List 
Moderator
 
**************************************************
 
 
Hi,
I'm 
interested 
in 
finding 
out 
if 
anyone 
has 
recommendations 
for 
a
research-based 
assessment 
tool 
to 
measure 
students' 
progress 
toward
achieving 
individual 
goals 
such 
as 
life 
skills. 
Our 
agency 
is 
interested
in 
tracking 
personal 
goals 
of 
our 
students, 
but 
haven't 
been 
able 
to
find 
an 
assessment 
tool 
yet. 
If 
anyone 
has 
suggestions, 
please 
let 
me
know.
 
Thanks! 
 
Amy 
Rhoades
Manager 
of 
Adult 
Literacy 
Programs
Christopher 
House
2507 
N. 
Greenview
Chicago, 
IL 
60614
phone: 
773.472.1083 
x3082
fax: 
773.472.7292
 

-------------------------------
National 
Institute 
for 
Literacy
Assessment 
mailing 
list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To 
unsubscribe 
or 
change 
your 
subscription 
settings, 
please 
go 
to 
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email 
delivered 
to 
bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net



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From djrosen at comcast.net  Fri Feb 22 15:01:38 2008
From: djrosen at comcast.net (David J. Rosen)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:01:38 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1269] Formative Assessment in Adult Literacy Education:
	A Special Topics Discussion
In-Reply-To: <9B939CC6-304A-44D8-B20D-C19C985EAD00@comcast.net>
References: <9B939CC6-304A-44D8-B20D-C19C985EAD00@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <616D93B6-8194-46BF-8804-E0A943A05A95@comcast.net>

Colleagues,

If you would like to participate in the online discussion to be held  
the week of February 25th, beginning Monday, on Formative Assessment  
in Adult Literacy Education, and if you haven't already done so,  
please sign up now.  To do so, go to

http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/specialtopics .

and follow the directions for subscribing. You will receive an email  
asking if you do indeed want to subscribe.  Reply immediately. You  
can unsubscribe after the discussion by going to the same web page  
or, if you prefer, you can stay subscribed for the next discussion,  
Transition from Corrections to Community Education that will begin on  
March 17th.

David J. Rosen
Special Topics Discussion Moderator
djrosen at comcast.net

On Feb 20, 2008, at 11:00 AM, David J. Rosen wrote:

> Colleagues,
>
> Beginning on Monday, February 25th, the Special Topics list will  
> hold a discussion on formative assessment, a set of classroom  
> practices that substantial research in England has shown to  
> positively affect elementary and secondary level student learning  
> outcomes. Not a term widely known in the U.S., formative assessment  
> refers to what teachers and learners do in the classroom to assess  
> learning progress.  An assessment is _formative_ when information  
> gathered in the assessment process is used to modify teaching and  
> learning activities.  It's an assessment _for_ learning,  not just  
> _of_ learning.
>
> A just-published study sponsored by the Organisation for Economic  
> Co-operation and Development (OECD), Teaching, Learning and  
> Assessment for Adults: Improving Foundation Skills < http:// 
> tinyurl.com/2dksn5 > looks at formative assessment practices in  
> adult foundation skills (basic skills) classes in several countries  
> among which were the U.S. and England. We will have as our guests  
> the researchers who did the studies in these two countries. OECD  
> researchers  who studied adult formative assessment practices in  
> other countries may also participate in the discussion.
>
> In my opinion, not an unbiased one as I was an OECD researcher in  
> this study of practices in Flanders Belgium, the study could have  
> an important impact on adult literacy education practices in North  
> America, and formative assessment could -- as has been shown in  
> K-12 and higher education studies -- make an important difference  
> for students' learning.
>
> I hope you will join my esteemed guests for this discussion.
>
> To subscribe to the discussion, go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/specialtopics .
> You can unsubscribe after the discussion by going to the same web  
> page or, if you prefer, you can stay subscribed for the next  
> discussion, Transition from Corrections to Community Education.
>
> Formative Assessment Guest Experts
>
> Janet Looney
> Janet Looney is the project leader of the Centre for Educational  
> Research and Innovation program known as What Works in Innovation  
> in Education. Since 2002 its focus has been on formative  
> assessment.  Between 2002 and 2004, the What Works program explored  
> formative assessment in lower secondary classrooms in eight  
> international systems. [See Formative Assessment: Improving  
> Learning in Secondary Classrooms (2005)].  OECD has just published  
> the second study addressing formative assessment for adult basic  
> skill learners, whose web page was provided above.
> Earlier in her career Janet taught ESOL in Japan for over two  
> years, and  at the YMCA in Seattle Washington.
>
> John Benseman
> John Benseman has been involved in adult education and literacy for  
> over 30 years working as a practitioner and program administrator,  
> but mainly as a researcher and evaluator. He started his working  
> life as a primary (elementary) school teacher, but ?became  
> disillusioned with the task of constantly trying to motivate  
> reluctant learners and became much more interested in working with  
> adults who were much more motivated?. After a year of studying  
> adult education in Sweden, he worked in continuing medical  
> education, followed by seven years of running a community-based  
> adult education organization and a similar period of self- 
> employment as a researcher. After 12 years of teaching adult  
> education at the University of Auckland, he moved last year to the  
> Department of Labour to run a national workplace literacy project.  
> The aim of this project is to identify best practice in workplace  
> literacy by evaluating 15 diverse programs throughout New Zealand.  
> They are about halfway through and should complete it late next  
> year. To date they have interviewed about 250 learners and are just  
> starting to get their first post-program data. They expect to have  
> data on about 500-600 learners when it is finished.
> John?s PhD was an analysis of New Zealand as a learning society. In  
> addition to a "zillion" reports, he has edited a book on New  
> Zealand adult education and two weeks ago, another one (with Alison  
> Sutton) on New Zealand adult literacy. He ?mainly works from home  
> in a study that looks out on to beautiful native bush, including a  
> stream and lots of native birds?. He says "It?s summer here, so  
> life includes jaunts to the beach, enjoying family life, frustrated  
> attempts to lower a very average golf handicap and riding a  
> motorbike to beat the Auckland traffic. My current project also  
> includes a lot of travel round the country to interview people ? a  
> duty that I am even paid to do?"
>
> With John Comings, John Benseman did the formative assessment  
> research in the U.S., sponsored in part by the National Institute  
> for Literacy
>
> John Comings
> Dr. John Comings was director of the National Center for the Study  
> of Adult Learning and Literacy (NCSALL) during its 11 years of  
> funding from the US Department of Education. He is currently Senior  
> Research Associate and lecturer at the Harvard Graduate School of  
> Education and a consultant on adult education in the U.S. and other  
> countries. His research focuses on the impact of adult literacy  
> programs and ways to support persistence of adult learners.
>
> John Vorhaus
> Dr John Vorhaus is Associate Director, Research, at the National  
> Research and Development Centre in Adult Literacy and Numeracy  
> (NRDC) at the Institute of Education. He is also Director of the  
> Centre for Research on the Wider Benefits of Learning.
>
> John has directed numerous projects on adult literacy, language and  
> numeracy, many of these focused on teaching and learning practices,  
> and also on disadvantaged groups such as offenders, ethnic minority  
> groups and people who are not in education, training or employment.
>
> On-going research is taken up with persons with profound and  
> multiple learning difficulties and disabilities; their political  
> status, the question of whether and how they are shown respect, and  
> an examination of the teaching and learning practices best fitted  
> to their needs and abilities.
>
> John has taught philosophy at the Universities of Bristol and  
> London, and also in prison, adult and further education, and he  
> continues to publish in the areas of political philosophy,  
> philosophy of law and philosophy of education.
>
> David J. Rosen
> Special Topics Discussion Moderator
> djrosen at comcast.net
>
>
>
>
>

David J. Rosen
djrosen at comcast.net





From MMaralit at NIFL.gov  Fri Feb 22 20:33:39 2008
From: MMaralit at NIFL.gov (Maralit, Mary Jo)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:33:39 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1270] World News with Charles Gibson: A Special Series
	on Literacy
Message-ID: <4062487BDB6029428A763CAEF4E1FE5B1538336C@wdcrobe2m03.ed.gov>

February 22, 2008

News and Notes from the National Institute for Literacy 
>From the Desk of Dr. Sandra L. Baxter, Director                            
____________________________________________________________

"WORLD NEWS WITH CHARLES GIBSON" TO REPORT A SPECIAL SERIES -
"LIVING IN THE SHADOWS: ILLITERACY IN AMERICA" BEGINNING FEBRUARY 25th

Beginning Monday, February 25, ABC's "World News with Charles Gibson" will
feature a special series, "Living in the Shadows: Illiteracy in America"
that examines the hidden phenomenon of illiteracy in this country. An
estimated 30 million people in the U.S. cannot read a simple sentence, and
as Senior Justice Department Correspondent Pierre Thomas reports,
undiagnosed learning disorders, poverty, and unstable homes are among the
factors contributing to this nation-wide crisis. The problem persists, in
large part, because many actively try to conceal it or avoid seeking help.

45 year-old Monica Baxley of Chipley, Florida was one of those people,
hiding the fact that she was functionally illiterate from family, friends,
even her husband for thirty years. She was unable to read newspapers, road
signs, or fill out job applications - a painful existence with constant
reminders of her limitation. She finally decided to seek help after becoming
frustrated that she couldn't help her daughter with homework. After several
years of intensive instruction with a local literacy group, she went on to
earn her GED. She now spends her time tutoring and inspiring others who are
illiterate.

In part two of the series, Thomas travels to Grand Rapids, Michigan, where
one out of every five residents there has difficulty reading or cannot read
at all. The city has pledged to cut the illiteracy rate in half in the next
ten years - launching a city-wide campaign to increase awareness of the
issue and enlisting hundreds of tutors and volunteers. Are their initiatives
making a difference? For those who have overcome illiteracy, the ability to
read has opened new doors and expanded their opportunities.

"Living in the Shadows: Illiteracy in America" will air on "World News with
Charles Gibson" beginning Monday, February 25. Thomas' reporting will also
be featured on the "World News" webcast, available on ABCNEWS.com, ABC News
Now, Apple's iTunes, and mobile phones.

Jon Banner is the executive producer of "World News with Charles Gibson."
ABC News Media Relations:
Natalie Raabe (212) 456-2418





From MMaralit at NIFL.gov  Sun Feb 24 23:55:32 2008
From: MMaralit at NIFL.gov (Maralit, Mary Jo)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 23:55:32 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1271] ABC News Special Series on Literacy starts Monday,
	Feb. 25
Message-ID: <4062487BDB6029428A763CAEF4E1FE5B15383379@wdcrobe2m03.ed.gov>

Special Announcement
>From the Desk of Dr. Sandra L. Baxter       
    
Join us as we tune into watch ABC's "World News with Charlie Gibson," the
first installment in this special series airs Monday, February 25, 2008.
(Please check local listings.)

>From ABC NEWS: http://abcnews.go.com/
Text link: http://abcnews.go.com/WN/LegalCenter/story?id=4336421&page=1
Video link: http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4336780

Living in the Shadows: Illiteracy in America
Millions Live With a Crippling Secret That Affects Their Everyday Lives

By PIERRE THOMAS, JACK DATE and THERESA COOK

Feb. 24, 2008 --

It's a chronic crisis of huge proportions, one that keeps millions of
Americans living in the shadows. And for nearly all of her of 45 years,
Monica Baxley had lived with the crippling secret.

"I cried a lot over this," she said, "when I was alone and just would wonder
what could be done, you know, if there was any help out there for me."

Baxley, of the Florida panhandle town of Chipley, was functionally
illiterate. She quit school in the ninth grade, and for 30 years kept her
secret from friends, family and even her husband.

"I didn't want to be exposed, beyond anything else. That was the most
important thing -- for no one to ever learn."

Baxley joins so many others with literacy challenges: 7 million Americans
are illiterate, 27 million are unable to read well enough to complete a job
application and 30 million can't read a simple sentence.

Her travel was limited because she was unable to read road signs. She was
unable to read a newspaper or food labels in a supermarket.

Baxley never voted in an election. "I didn't know who or what to vote for,"
she said.

Her illiteracy even impacted her physical health, as she avoided seeing the
doctor out of fear she would have to fill out a medical form or read a
prescription.

"My health is poor now, but I really believe that's because I never went to
the doctor and had my physicals and stuff that I should have had," Baxley
admitted.

A recent study from the Archives of Internal Medicine revealed patients who
had difficulty reading prescriptions were 50 percent more likely to die from
disease than patients who were literate.

"It is a life and death issue," said study author Dr. David Baker of
Northwestern University. "Literacy affects your health in so many different
ways," he said, from inability to properly follow instructions to not
knowing about common conditions or what symptoms to look for.

"So when you put all of these things together it's not surprising that
people with the lower literacy levels are more likely to die [earlier],"
Baker said.

Baker said his team has interviewed hundreds of patients about their
experiences, and Baxley's situation was a common theme -- hiding illiteracy
from those close to them.

"It's very scary for people" when their first contact with the healthcare
system involves filling out detailed medical forms. "That's not a great
start," Baxter said, "and then when they are seeing their doctor they're
given other information they don't understand" such as prescription
information and instructions to take care of themselves.

"Many people are afraid to come in and see the doctor," Baxter said. They
don't seek care, resulting in the worsening of their conditions and an
increased likelihood of trips to the emergency room.

The American Medical Association Foundation did a private study of patients
who could not read. One woman who provided a testimonial said signed a form
agreeing to a medical procedure with no idea what it meant.

"The nurse said, how are you feeling since your hysterectomy?" according to
the testimonial. "And I acted as normal as I could, but inside, my mouth
fell open and I thought to myself, how could I be so stupid as to allow
somebody to take part of my body and I didn't know it?"

Another patient took her medication improperly, afraid to tell her physician
about her difficulty reading.

"I didn't take it right. I admit it," her testimonial said. "I just didn't
have they nerve to ask them and I didn't want anyone to know I couldn't
read."

"It's a tremendous problem when you think about the costs for us,
economically, health-wise," said Sandra Baxter, director of the National
Institute for Literacy.

"For so many adults who don't have the education, it's embarrassing to have
to say, would you explain that to me?" Baxter said of potential problems
during a doctor appointment. "And so they don't ask the questions that they
need to."

Undiagnosed learning disorders, poverty and an unstable home life are all
factors.

As for Monica Baxley, she confronted her illiteracy at age 42 and learned to
read. But illiteracy persists for millions who continue to live with it in
the shadows.

If someone you know needs help, contact your local library, or use one of
the following resources:

National Institute for Literacy: http://www.nifl.gov

Reading is Fundamental: http://www.rif.org/

To find a literacy program near you: http://www.literacydirectory.org/

To search resources by state:
http://www.literacydirectory.org/?op=hotlines&type=contacts


Copyright ? 2008 ABC News Internet Ventures


From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Tue Feb 26 13:12:04 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 13:12:04 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1272]  Announcement-NAAL Data Set Training Seminar
Message-ID: <01fa01c878a3$18017450$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Colleagues:  The following opportunity may be of interest to you.

Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator

*********************************

Using the National Assessment of Adult Literacy Data file and Tools For
Research, Secondary Analyses and Policy Development

   NAAL Data Set Training June 2008

Description:

The National Center for Education Statistics (NCES), in the U.S
Department of Education's Institute of Education Sciences (IES), will
sponsor a 2 1/2-day advanced studies seminar on the use of the National
Assessment of Adult Literacy (NAAL) data files and tools for research
and policy analyses. The 2003 NAAL measured the English literacy of
America's adults living in households and prisons. Results are reported
in terms of scale score averages on three literacy scales: prose,
document, and quantitative, as well as literacy levels that are
described as Below Basic, Basic, Intermediate, and Proficient.

For more information about NAAL and a list of available publications
that can be downloaded or ordered, visit the survey website. See the
links available below.

Type:

Workshop/Training & Technical Assistance

Audience:

This seminar is open to institutional researchers and planners,
education practitioners, policymakers, and association members, as well
as faculty and advanced graduate students from colleges and universities
nationwide.

Location:

Academy for Educational Development (AED)
1825 Connecticut Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20009-5721
(202) 884-8583

Dates:

June 25-27, 2008

Organization:

National Center for Education Statistics

More Information:

Register for this conference
<http://ies.ed.gov/whatsnew/conferences/Register.aspx?id=314> 

NAAL Data Set Training Seminar Announcement
<http://nces.ed.gov/whatsnew/conferences/PDF/NAAL2008trainingannouncemen
t.pdf> 

   
<http://nces.ed.gov/whatsnew/conferences/PDF/NAAL2008trainingannouncemen
t.pdf>  ( 267KB ) 

For further information about NAAL, visit the study website
<http://nces.ed.gov/NAAL> 


For help viewing PDF files, please click here
<http://ies.ed.gov/help/techissues.asp#pdf> .

Contacts:
Vukovic, Gordana <mailto:gvukovic at sei2003.com>  from Synergy
Enterprises, Inc. at (240) 485-1700

Sponsors:
National Center for Education Statistics (NCES) <http://nces.ed.gov/> 

 

 

 





From kbeall at onlyinternet.net  Tue Feb 26 13:27:41 2008
From: kbeall at onlyinternet.net (Kaye Beall)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 13:27:41 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1273] Registration Opens for Online Courses on Reading
	and Transitions
Message-ID: <00d101c878a5$4cf6f890$030ba8c0@D14J7YD1>

Dear colleagues,

 

We?re excited about sharing our high-quality trainings in a new way with adult educators. We hope that you?ll join us online in exploring evidence-based practices that you can use in your programs and instruction. Discussion list subscribers may be particularly interested in the Adult Transitions to Postsecondary Education course in light of the recent GED Discussion - what you need to know.

 

See the course descriptions and registration information below for:

*         Research-based Strategies and Models for Adult Transitions to Postsecondary Education

*         Study Circle: Research-based Adult Reading Instruction

 

Please contact me directly with questions.

Kaye

 

Kaye Beall

Project Director

World Education

765-717-3942

kaye_beall at worlded.org

www.worlded.org <http://www.worlded.org/>  

 



Research-based Strategies and Models for Adult Transitions to Postsecondary Education

Course Dates: April 11?June 5, 2008

Course Description 
Participants will read and discuss the research on the changing workforce and examine the reasons why adult learners need to go beyond the GED and English language study to advance their earning potential. Participants will also learn about the challenges facing adult students in postsecondary education and investigate strategies and program models that support adult transitions to postsecondary education. Throughout the course, participants will gather local and regional data on the labor market, educational needs, and academic programs and support services offered by area colleges to guide future program development and planning.  

Course Format and Schedule: facilitated, online

During this eight-week course, you will engage in self-paced activities and readings, as well as asynchronous discussions with the facilitator and course participants. An opening teleconference is scheduled for April 17, 2008, 1 pm or 7 pm EDT

Syllabus: Download a detailed Course Overview at http://professionalstudiesae.worlded.org/pdf/ct_overview.pdf 

Course Facilitator: Sandy Goodman 

Estimated Completion Time: 24 hours

Fee: $149.00

Registration: Complete and return the registration form, which you can download at http://professionalstudiesae.worlded.org/pdf/ct_registration.pdf.  Payment must be received prior to enrollment.  Registration is limited to 20 participants.

Cancellation policy: World Education reserves the right to cancel the course if the minimum number of registrants is not met by April 4, 2008

****************************************

Study Circle: Research-based Adult Reading Instruction

Course Dates: April 11?June 12, 2008

Course Description 
The Research-based Adult Reading Instruction Study Circle is designed to engage practitioners of adult basic education (ABE), adult secondary education (ASE), and English-for-speakers-of?other-languages (ESOL) in discussing theories and concepts related to reading instruction. Questions about what research says about teaching adults how to read are particularly relevant as programs and teachers struggle with choosing the most effective ways to develop adults? reading skills.

Course Format and Schedule: facilitated, online

During this eight-week course, you will work on team projects, engage in self-paced activities and readings, as well as asynchronous discussions with the facilitator and course participants. Chats are scheduled for April 24, May 15, and June 5 at 12:30?1:30 pm or 1:30?2:30 pm EDT

Syllabus: Download detailed Course Overview at http://professionalstudiesae.worlded.org/pdf/reading_sc_overview.pdf 

Course Facilitator: Kaye Beall 

Estimated Completion Time: 24 hours

Fee: $149.00

Registration: and return the registration form, which you can download at http://professionalstudiesae.worlded.org/pdf/reading_reg.pdf. Payment must be received prior to enrollment. Registration is limited to 20 participants.

Cancellation policy: World Education reserves the right to cancel the course if the minimum number of registrants is not met by April 4, 2008. 

 

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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Wed Feb 27 10:39:58 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:39:58 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1273] Formative Assessment Discussion on Special Topics
Message-ID: <002401c87957$02f93020$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi everyone,
 
I just wanted to encourage anyone interested in formative assessment to
jump on the Special Topics list now to catch that conversation - it's
rich and prolific.  
 
Subscribe yourself at:
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/specialtopics
 
I know that it's a lot to read, but if formative assessment is your
passion, this is definitely going to be of interest to you.  
 
There are bits and pieces reminiscent of our discussion on Passing the
Torch from early February.
 
Marie
 
Marie Cora
 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
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From tsticht at znet.com  Wed Mar  5 16:46:00 2008
From: tsticht at znet.com (tsticht at znet.com)
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:46:00 -0800
Subject: [Assessment 1274]  International Women' Day Message
Message-ID: <1204753560.47cf1498a47ec@webmail.znet.net>

March 8th, 2008 is International Women's Day

Honoring Three Women Literacy Workers

Tom Sticht
International Consultant in Adult Education

For many years Namtip Aksornkool of Thailand was a senior specialist in
literacy and women's education at UNESCO. In addition, she served for a
number of years as the lead coordinator for UNESCO's International Literacy
Day. It was in this latter capacity that I had the chance to work with
Namtip during my years as a member of UNESCO's International Literacy Prize
Jury that selected the annual winners of UNESCO literacy prizes. Through her
work, Namtip helped to focus literacy efforts in many nations on the
particular needs of women and girls. I was able to obtain and read reports
and books she prepared calling attention to the needs of women for literacy
education and the efforts of literacy workers.

In one of these reports, "On the Ground: Adventures of Literacy Workers
(UNESCO, 2002) ," Namtip related some of her own adventures in Namibia to
educate adults about HIV/AIDS. She made the point that "Literacy workers
must be prepared to travel by all modes of transport - helicopters, trains,
jeeps, four wheelers, horses, camels, mules, elephants and, yes even by a
human being!" Namtip herself made many missions to nations by these various
means of travel. She recorded some of her impressions in On the Ground and
stated, "Authorities always stipulate, often in official policy papers, how
important women's empowerment is to their country's development. Yet
experience shows that they rarely act on their word - to their own economic
detriment." With this sort of straightforward commentary, unusual for a
UNESCO official, Namtip was able to achieve many important literacy
outcomes for women and girls. It was always a pleasure for me to have a
coffee with Namtip in the caf? on the 7th floor of UNESCO Headquarters in
Paris while discussing  adult literacy education needs and UNESCO's work to
meet these needs. A good example of informal education for me!

>From 1985 to 2001,  Martha Mvungi  of Tanzania served in the position of
President of the International Literacy Prize Jury. She brought to the Jury
a deep understanding of the African region and the meaning of the saying
that "it takes a village to raise a child."  Martha focused upon the role
of the community in supporting literacy programs and she was always sure to
remind the Jury of the special needs of women for literacy, especially the
intergenerational effects that educating women can have on children's
education. This is one of the kinds of "multiplier effects" that the Jury
noted can result from adult literacy education. This refers to the common
finding that when adult's acquire literacy, this doesn't just increase
their literacy, it frequently also increases their economic, community, and
civic standings.

In her 1996 report to Mr. Federico Mayor, then Director-General of UNESCO,
following the Jury's meeting, Martha wrote a section which called for
placing more emphasis on the multiplier effects of adult literacy
education. She said, "The Jury is also of the view that emphasis on the
intergenerational transfer of educating the family can reap the long-term
effects of sustained literacy and education. Once the family, and in
particular the adult, is literate, the 
 chances that their children will
also go to school are very high, 
 This message has to be said over and
over to encourage efforts in literacy to be appropriately directed towards
adults and the family."

Later this intergenerational effect of adult literacy education was also
expressed as educational policy by Rosa Maria Torres of Ecuador, with whom
I worked for a couple of years when she was a member of the UNESCO
International Literacy Prize Jury in 2001 and 2002.

In an online internet article posted in 2003  (The fundamental linkages
between child, youth and adult learning and
education.http://www.iizdvv.de/englisch/Publikationen/Supplements/60_2003/eng_someconclusionsandelements.htm)
 Rosa Maria stated that, "Adult Basic Education and Learning (ABLE) cannot
continue to be viewed in isolation, as a separate educational goal 
 but
rather as part of the overall education, training and learning system and
policy at national and international level. 
To educate children, it is
essential to educate adults, not only (illiterate, poor) parents and
caregivers (including teachers) but adults in general. Because it is adults
and the adult society who make the critical decisions that affect children?s
well-being and development, at home, at school.... This is the importance of
educating adults, for their own sake and for the sake of children, for the
present and for future generations. 
In fact, 
 the children?s right to
education should include the right to educated parents."

These three women exemplify the efforts of thousand of literacy workers
around the world, both in the hardships they have endured in adult literacy
education and the emphasis they have made on the literacy education of women
and families. It was a privilege for me to have had the opportunity to work
with all three of these outstanding women to further the cause of adult
literacy education. I am honored to know them and to recognize their work
this International Women's Day.

Thomas G. Sticht
International Consultant in Adult Education
2062 Valley View Blvd.
El Cajon, CA 92019-2059
Tel/fax: (619) 444-9133
Email: tsticht at aznet.net




From NAASLN at aol.com  Mon Mar 10 12:12:54 2008
From: NAASLN at aol.com (NAASLN at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:12:54 EDT
Subject: [Assessment 1275] Special COABE PreConference - Will address
	assessment issues for special learning needs
Message-ID: <bd7.29ac962d.3506b806@aol.com>

The National Association for Adults with Special Learning Needs (NAASLN) is 
hosting a
Preconference session at COABE on Monday, April 28th.   This preconference 
session is critical 
for all assessment initiatives at the state and local program level!

This session will target the unique learning needs of basic and literacy 
education participants.? The special needs of program participants reflect the 
special learning needs that, if not addressed, will also be impacting pre-post 
assessments, employment, transitions, families and children.? Both national data 
and programs that have addressed the special needs of participants with be 
presented.?

Programs that are demonstrating over 200% increases in persistence and in 
post-test gains will be available to discuss the systemic changes that lead to 
their successes.?

ESOL and correction programs will also be available for dialogue and 
dissemination of implementation strategies leading to tremendous participant and 
program outcomes.

All attendees will receive a 2008 NAASLN Membership at no cost.

Join this session by registering at the 
http://www.coabe.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=conferences

Take advantage of early-bird registration fees!? Register NOW!

NAASLN Pre-Conference
All day session

Special Learning Needs: What can Adult Education and Literacy Programs do?
>From Identification to Interventions to Systemic Changes

Join this lively all day session and participate with leading professionals 
(national experts, program administrators and instructors) on how to provide 
services that actually change peoples' lives and that can demonstrate dramatic 
gains in persistence and learning outcomes.??

The all day session will include:
o???? Defining, establishing a set of values, and exploring the incidence of 
special learning needs
o???? Best practices for engaging learners
o???? What is really going on?? Peeling the layers to get to the heart of why 
is learner is struggling.
o???? Interventions - What? Who? And the Basics of How?
o???? Systemic Change - Aligning programs that practice what they preach!
o???? Learner and Tutor Training on Special Learning Needs
o???? Professional Development - who is doing what and the impact of PD on 
systemic improvements!

Presenters include:
Barbara Arguedas, Director of Adult Basic Education, Santa Fe Community 
College
Kaye Cockrum, Director of Adult Education and Literacy, Houston, MO
Bevin Gibson, Director, Southern Illinois Professional Development Center
Karen Hibbert, Director of Adult Basic Education, West Central Community 
Corrections
Joan Hudson Miller, LRS - Vision Specialist, CA
Peg Kennedy, Developmental Support Specialist, Olney Central College, IL
Susan Rathjen, Instructor, Santa Fe Community College
Robin Schwarz, ESOL and Special Learning Needs Consultant
Laura Weisel, Clinical Services, The TLP Group, Columbus, OH
...along with additional program providers that are changing lives by 
identifying and addressing special learning needs!






**************
It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &amp; 
Finance.
      (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
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From djrosen at comcast.net  Wed Mar 12 07:52:34 2008
From: djrosen at comcast.net (David J. Rosen)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:52:34 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1276] Transition from corrections to community education
Message-ID: <E6BC1298-209C-44A1-9695-A355A7298561@comcast.net>

Colleagues,

Beginning on Monday, March 17th, on the Special Topics discussion  
list, we will have a discussion about transition from corrections  
education to community education.  Our guests include Dr. Carolyn  
Buser, Steve Schwalb, John Gordon, and Dr. Stephen Steurer.

I hope you will join our esteemed guests for this discussion. You  
will find background information on them below.

To subscribe to the discussion, go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/specialtopics .
You can unsubscribe after the discussion by going to the same web  
page or, if you prefer, you can stay subscribed for the next  
discussion.  If you are already subscribed yourself, please pass on  
this announcement to your colleagues who may be interested.

Background on Discussion Guests

Carolyn (Cay) Buser
Cay Buser joined the United States Department of Education in May of  
2006 as an adult education program specialist with duties as the  
Adult Education and Family Literacy Act (AEFLA) liaison with  
correctional education.  Dr. Buser works with the Western States to  
assist them in the administration of adult education grants.  She  
also is the national resource for coordination with correctional  
education programs and adult education grants.

Prior to her federal appointment, Dr. Buser was director of  
correctional education for the Maryland State Department of  
Education.  Her responsibilities entailed management of the education  
and library programs in Maryland?s adult and juvenile correctional  
systems.  She provided direct support to Maryland?s Educational  
Coordinating Council for Correctional Institutions, the ?school  
board? for correctional education headed by the State Superintendent  
of Schools with the State Secretary of Public Safety and Correctional  
Services as a member.

Dr. Buser has been an active member of the Correctional Education  
Association serving as a regional director and is currently on the  
editorial board of the Journal of Correctional Education.  Her  
academic background includes a master?s degree in special education  
and a doctorate in educational policy and administration.  Dr. Buser  
taught English in public middle and high schools in the Midwest, and  
in community colleges in Maryland.  She taught for seven years in  
Maryland?s correctional education program and served as a principal  
in three correctional settings before her appointment as director of  
the State program.


Steve Schwalb
Steve Schwalb has served as President and CEO of Pioneer Human  
Services since April, 2007. Prior to that, Steve had a 33-year career  
in the field of corrections.

After receiving his B.A. degree in Business Administration from the  
University of Washington, he began his corrections career as a  
Personnel Management Specialist trainee with the Federal Bureau of  
Prisons.  He subsequently held various positions of additional  
responsibility, including Personnel Director, Chief of Internal  
Affairs, Warden, Deputy Regional Director and Assistant Director.

In the latter position, Steve was responsible for nationwide  
oversight of the education, vocational training, recreation,  
parenting, transition preparation, citizen volunteers and industrial  
work programs.  Serving in the role of Chief Operating Officer of  
Federal Prison Industries, Inc., he oversaw over 100 factories that  
employ 21,000 inmates and 1,400 staff, and that generated $800  
million in annual sales.

In the mid-1980?s, Steve served as Associate Superintendent and  
Program Manager with the Washington State Department of Corrections,  
and as Director of the King County Jail in Seattle.

During his federal career, Steve was appointed by the President to  
the Committee for Purchase From People Who Are Blind or Severely  
Disabled, and served as chairman for four of his twelve years on the  
committee.

John Gordon
John has worked at the Fortune Society since 2001, first as Director  
of its Education program and more recently as an Associate President  
of Programs. The Fortune Society works with people after they?ve come  
home from prison or jail. Their Education program serves 200-300  
students per year; they offer classes in Adult Basic Education, ESOL,  
and computer skills. Many students are on probation or parole; others  
are mandated by the courts to one of Fortune?s Alternatives to  
Incarceration programs; some are no longer under any criminal justice  
supervision.
Before coming to the Fortune Society, John worked for 16 years as  
Teacher-Director of the Open Book, a community based literacy program  
in Brooklyn, NY. At the Open Book, some of his central concerns  
revolved around developing student leadership and student  
participation in program decision-making; publishing student writing  
and oral histories, and welfare and literacy issues. He published  
several articles on these topics as well as More Than a Job:  A  
Curriculum on Work and Society (New Readers Press). He is an active  
participant in the New York City Coalition for Adult Literacy.
The Fortune Society was founded in 1967 with two main goals: (1) to  
educate the public about prisons, criminal justice issues, and the  
root causes of crime and (2) to provide support for people as they  
come home from prison. Fortune serves over 3,000 former prisoners a  
year, offering education, career development, counseling, substance  
abuse treatment, housing, health services, and alternatives to  
incarceration. It continues to play a strong role in advocating for  
criminal justice and prison reform.

Stephen J. Steurer, Ph.D.
Steve is the  Executive Director of the Correctional Education  
Association, a professional organization of educators who work in  
prisons, jails and juvenile settings.

David J. Rosen
Special Topics Discussion Moderator
djrosen at comcast.net




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From kbeall at onlyinternet.net  Wed Mar 12 15:34:58 2008
From: kbeall at onlyinternet.net (Kaye Beall)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:34:58 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1277] COABE Pre-conferences from the National Institute
	for Literacy
Message-ID: <010001c88478$284dabe0$030ba8c0@D14J7YD1>

 


Join us for a COABE Pre-conference!

 



 

Evidence-based Practice: A Workshop for Training Adult Basic Education, TANF
and One-Stop Practitioners and Program Administrators

The National Institute for Literacy presents this one-day workshop created
by the National Center for Study of Adult Learning and Literacy (NCSALL) to
help practitioners understand what evidence-based practice is and what
research is all about.  It is an interactive, fun, and experiential set of
activities that helps those with "research phobia" to feel comfortable
looking at and judging the usefulness of adult basic education and
literacy-related research.  In the afternoon, there is time to think about
how to apply what is learned once back in your program, especially how to
integrate what's been learned about reading with your program's priorities
for improvement. 

 

Presenters: Cristine Smith and Kaye Beall

Full-day Session: April 28, 2008, 8:30 am-3:30 pm

 

Reading Assessment

The National Institute for Literacy presents this workshop on the Assessment
Strategies and Reading Profiles website.  This online diagnostic reading
assessment, based on the Adult Reading Component Study, shows instructors
how to identify students' reading strengths and weaknesses. Instructors can
use this knowledge to target their instruction more effectively.on will be
on reading components and the purpose of diagnostic assessment.
Participants of this preconference will be given samples of reading
profiles, have an opportunity to practice several of the assessments and to
construct a diagnostic reading profile.

 

Presenters: Rosalind Davidson and Marie Cora

Half-day Session: April 28, 2008, 12:30-3:30 pm

 

 

To register for a preconference, go to
http://www.coabeconference.org/form.html

 

See you in St. Louis!

 

 

 

 

Kaye Beall

Project Director

World Education

6760 West Street

Linn Grove, IN 46711

765-717-3942

kaye_beall at worlded.org

www.worlded.org

 

 

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From jataylor at utk.edu  Thu Mar 20 23:17:59 2008
From: jataylor at utk.edu (Taylor, Jackie)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 23:17:59 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1278]  AALPD - Join or Renew Membership Today
Message-ID: <0913EC48F2B05C4FBE4878BAFCABBFEC01D44BC4@KFSVS2.utk.tennessee.edu>

Dear Colleagues:

 

The Association of Adult Literacy Professional Developers (AALPD) is
wrapping up its annual membership drive. We actually start our
membership list from scratch each year so that we can keep our records
current and provide new ways for members to become active in the
organization.  We will be launching into some exciting activities this
year but before we do, we'd like to make sure everyone who is interested
has had the opportunity to join or renew membership. 

 

http://www.aalpd.org/membership_leadership08.cfm

 

Though you can join or renew membership at any time, we hope you will do
so today. Thank you for your support. We have some exciting initiatives
coming up this year!

 

Best, Jackie

 

Jackie Taylor, Chair

AALPD

jataylor at utk.edu 

 

---------------------------------------------------- 

The Association of Adult Literacy Professional Developers (AALPD) is
hosting an annual membership drive through mid-March.

 

If you are working or interested in professional development and
dedicated to advancing the field, please join or renew today.

 

Membership is free. By joining or renewing membership each year you help
AALPD build support for adult literacy professional development while
providing members the best possible services.

 

========================================================================
========

Join or Renew Now: http://www.aalpd.org/membership_leadership08.cfm
========================================================================
========

 

AALPD is...

*	a national professional organization for those working or
interested in professional development 
*	an affiliate of the Commission on Adult Basic Education (COABE) 
*	a member of the National Coalition for Literacy (NCL) 

 

Who are AALPD members?

*	Professional development staff, instructors, administrators,
state staff, volunteers, researchers, and learner leaders working or
interested in professional development 
*	Individuals committed to advancing the field of adult literacy
professional development 

 

How is it run?

*	AALPD is comprised of a volunteer Executive Board, volunteer
chairs over committees that represent member-identified priorities for
professional development (PD standards, PD advocacy; PD research, PD
programming, PD resources) 
*	Volunteer committees work on PD priorities and make
recommendations to the Executive Board; major decisions go to the
membership for a vote 

 

What does AALPD do?

AALPD:

*	Provides programming and resources for members by: 

	*	Hosting an annual PreConference at COABE: 
http://www.aalpd.org/conference.html 
	*	Co-sponsoring the Adult Literacy Professional
Development discussion list in partnership with the National Institute
for Literacy: 
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/Professionaldevelopment 
	*	Providing a Professional Development Registry (
http://www.aalpd.org/pdregistry/index.html) of materials to which you
can find and contribute facilitator materials 

*	Advances member-identified priorities for professional
development 
*	Advocates for funding for professional development 

 

What are AALPD's plans for 2008?

AALPD will be:

*	Continuing current activities 
*	Visioning and strategic planning for AALPD's role in advancing
adult literacy professional development 
*	Increasing leadership and participation opportunities with AALPD

*	Finalizing the AALPD draft quality professional development
standards with feedback from the field (online and in-person at national
PD events) 
*	Planning the 2009 PreConference and AALPD strand at COABE 
*	Strengthening PD networking opportunities 

 

What are the membership benefits?

*	Membership is free! 
*	You can vote for AALPD officers and on special issues that arise
(Only AALPD members will be eligible to vote). 
*	We will send you the latest information about upcoming
trainings, events and resources. 
*	You can have input into the design of the COABE pre-conference
session next year (2009). 
*	You can choose to participate at various levels of involvement
to further member-identified PD priorities 
*	You can help to strengthen AALPD's voice in advocacy by
demonstrating a strong membership of concerned practitioners committed
to professional development. 

 

 How to Join: http://www.aalpd.org/membership_leadership08.cfm 

 

Questions? Contact Jackie Taylor, Chair, jataylor at utk.edu 

 

<http://www.aalpd.org/index.html> <http://www.aalpd.org/index.html>  
<http://www.aalpd.org/index.html>  <http://www.aalpd.org/index.html>  
<http://www.aalpd.org/index.html> 

 

 

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From djrosen at comcast.net  Sat Mar 29 09:52:52 2008
From: djrosen at comcast.net (David J. Rosen)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 09:52:52 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1279] Assessing reading when reading means listening to
	text
Message-ID: <1F7ED94D-77E1-4D49-8899-26E79CA9869F@comcast.net>

Assessment Colleagues,

On the Learning Disabilities discussion list this past week there has  
been a fascinating discussion initiated by Glenn Young. He has  
proposed that it is time to focus on helping adults with learning  
disabilities learn to read using technology. By this he means having  
computers and hand-held devices read text out loud, with new readers  
focusing on their getting meaning, not on learning how to decode  
text. The archives of this discussion will be found at
http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/learningdisabilities/2008/date.html

Glenn wants to see this idea piloted and evaluated.  I think that's a  
good idea,  not that I think we should stop teaching reading but that  
we should help learners get access to information from text when  
learning to read well may take a very long time, or not be possible.  
Inexpensive electronic text readers can help them get access to the  
meaning of text that might not otherwise be available. This is an  
issue of social justice, of accommodations.

Glenn's proposal, and the excellent discussion that has followed, has  
led me to wonder if this idea were piloted how would we measure  
"reading gains"?

This, in turn, has led me to remember the importance of looking at  
change in reading behaviors. Many years ago ETS researcher, Ron  
Solarzano, developed an assessment for library literacy programs in  
California in which the learner and tutor, using a check list,  kept  
close track of how actual reading behaviors changed over time. As I  
recall, the learner kept track monthy of what kinds of reading she  
did and how many items for each kind. I believe the checklist  
included such behaviors as reading children's books to pre-schoolers,  
reading cartoons in newspapers, and reading sports articles in  
newspapers or magazines. As I recall, because of the diligence that  
was required in keeping these records, and the tutor training in  
using the instrument, this was a good measure of change in reading.

Are there good reading behavior instruments being used now? If so,  
what are they? Please tell us about them here.

Do you have thoughts on how we might measure "reading gains" , for  
example vocabulary growth, comprehension, perhaps even fluency  
(ability to gain meaning from text read out loud at a faster rate?)  
for those who read using electronic text readers?

David J. Rosen
djrosen at comcast.net



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From SKidd at sbctc.edu  Mon Mar 31 04:52:03 2008
From: SKidd at sbctc.edu (Susan Kidd)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 01:52:03 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1280] Re: Assessing reading when reading means
	listening totext
References: <1F7ED94D-77E1-4D49-8899-26E79CA9869F@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <0CA6C79FCB4AC642A77B76C17A4316EE0224C586@exch-1.sbctc2.local>

It might make more sense to assess comprehension of content material for students who employ reading technology.
 
Many years ago, I worked with a high school student who had a significant learning disability in reading (I was actually tutoring him in math). After many unsuccessful interventions, his parents resorted to reading his homework aloud to him. The result was that rather than receiving Ds and Fs in such subjects as history and English, he was able to maintain a C average.
 
Susan
 
SUSAN KIDD
ABE Professional Development Coordinator
State Board for Community & Technical Colleges
509-682-6968
cell phone: 509-630-4520
 
 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of David J. Rosen
Sent: Sat 3/29/2008 6:52 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Cc: Glenn Young
Subject: [Assessment 1279] Assessing reading when reading means listening totext


Assessment Colleagues, 

On the Learning Disabilities discussion list this past week there has been a fascinating discussion initiated by Glenn Young. He has proposed that it is time to focus on helping adults with learning disabilities learn to read using technology. By this he means having computers and hand-held devices read text out loud, with new readers focusing on their getting meaning, not on learning how to decode text. The archives of this discussion will be found at 
http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/learningdisabilities/2008/date.html

Glenn wants to see this idea piloted and evaluated.  I think that's a good idea,  not that I think we should stop teaching reading but that we should help learners get access to information from text when learning to read well may take a very long time, or not be possible. Inexpensive electronic text readers can help them get access to the meaning of text that might not otherwise be available. This is an issue of social justice, of accommodations.

Glenn's proposal, and the excellent discussion that has followed, has led me to wonder if this idea were piloted how would we measure "reading gains"? 

This, in turn, has led me to remember the importance of looking at change in reading behaviors. Many years ago ETS researcher, Ron Solarzano, developed an assessment for library literacy programs in California in which the learner and tutor, using a check list,  kept close track of how actual reading behaviors changed over time. As I recall, the learner kept track monthy of what kinds of reading she did and how many items for each kind. I believe the checklist included such behaviors as reading children's books to pre-schoolers, reading cartoons in newspapers, and reading sports articles in newspapers or magazines. As I recall, because of the diligence that was required in keeping these records, and the tutor training in using the instrument, this was a good measure of change in reading.

Are there good reading behavior instruments being used now? If so, what are they? Please tell us about them here.

Do you have thoughts on how we might measure "reading gains" , for example vocabulary growth, comprehension, perhaps even fluency (ability to gain meaning from text read out loud at a faster rate?) for those who read using electronic text readers? 

David J. Rosen
djrosen at comcast.net



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From LChenven at 1199funds.org  Mon Mar 31 10:32:41 2008
From: LChenven at 1199funds.org (Laura Chenven)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 10:32:41 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1280] Re: Assessing reading when reading means
	listening totext
In-Reply-To: <1F7ED94D-77E1-4D49-8899-26E79CA9869F@comcast.net>
References: <1F7ED94D-77E1-4D49-8899-26E79CA9869F@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <5132EB8B3F976744A3EBBA975684E36F0157C6B1@NBFMAIL03.1199nbf.net>

Hi - all good ideas.  There is already some data - though I can't
remember where I saw it on comprehension with fast reading.  What I
remember is that reading comprehension with a program like Kurzweill
actually goes up when the reading is done "fast".  Apparently the faster
reading helps the learner cut off distractors and leads to more focused
concentration and better comprehension.  This may be an average response
as opposed to one that differentiates between "average" listeners and
those with different types of learning disabilities.  In any case, it wo
uld be interesting to learn more about this phenomenon.  Measuring
increased comprehension with speed of reading may not be an effective
way of assessing improvement - at least not for native English speakers
- though it could be different for non-native English speakers. 
 
I suspect that reading along with text read out loud might improve sight
vocabulary but do little for decoding skills.  So an interesting
question might be what combination of listening/reading along (with
Kurzweill or other programs that provide aural and visual stimulation)
and direct instruction in decoding would have a maximum effect and for
whom.
 
Laura Chenven

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of David J. Rosen
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 9:53 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Cc: Glenn Young
Subject: [Assessment 1279] Assessing reading when reading means
listening totext


Assessment Colleagues, 

On the Learning Disabilities discussion list this past week there has
been a fascinating discussion initiated by Glenn Young. He has proposed
that it is time to focus on helping adults with learning disabilities
learn to read using technology. By this he means having computers and
hand-held devices read text out loud, with new readers focusing on their
getting meaning, not on learning how to decode text. The archives of
this discussion will be found at 
http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/learningdisabilities/2008/date.html

Glenn wants to see this idea piloted and evaluated.  I think that's a
good idea,  not that I think we should stop teaching reading but that we
should help learners get access to information from text when learning
to read well may take a very long time, or not be possible. Inexpensive
electronic text readers can help them get access to the meaning of text
that might not otherwise be available. This is an issue of social
justice, of accommodations.

Glenn's proposal, and the excellent discussion that has followed, has
led me to wonder if this idea were piloted how would we measure "reading
gains"? 

This, in turn, has led me to remember the importance of looking at
change in reading behaviors. Many years ago ETS researcher, Ron
Solarzano, developed an assessment for library literacy programs in
California in which the learner and tutor, using a check list,  kept
close track of how actual reading behaviors changed over time. As I
recall, the learner kept track monthy of what kinds of reading she did
and how many items for each kind. I believe the checklist included such
behaviors as reading children's books to pre-schoolers, reading cartoons
in newspapers, and reading sports articles in newspapers or magazines.
As I recall, because of the diligence that was required in keeping these
records, and the tutor training in using the instrument, this was a good
measure of change in reading.

Are there good reading behavior instruments being used now? If so, what
are they? Please tell us about them here.

Do you have thoughts on how we might measure "reading gains" , for
example vocabulary growth, comprehension, perhaps even fluency (ability
to gain meaning from text read out loud at a faster rate?) for those who
read using electronic text readers? 

David J. Rosen
djrosen at comcast.net




?Please note that the email address for the person you are corresponding with has changed.  The new address is listed above.  Please use this new address in all future correspondence.  Thank you?

Health care information is personal and sensitive information. If such information is being emailed to you, it is after appropriate authorization from the patient or under circumstances that do not require patient authorization. You, the recipient, are obligated to maintain it in a safe, secure and confidential manner. Re-disclosure without additional patient consent or as permitted by law is prohibited. Unauthorized re-disclosure or failure to maintain confidentiality could subject you to penalties described in federal and state law. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the related message.


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From tsticht at znet.com  Mon Mar 31 13:46:12 2008
From: tsticht at znet.com (tsticht at znet.com)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 10:46:12 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1281]  Free Workshop on Listening and Reading
Message-ID: <1206985572.47f12364f083f@webmail.znet.net>

Colleagues: Regarding Glenn Young's, David Rosen's, and others interests in
learning by listening (see the Technology discussion list at the NIFL
archives) and assessmetn of listening and reading, there is a very large
body of research on listening in relation to reading, including research
with adult literacy learners, blind adult learners, and other special needs
adults (e.g., older adults with central or peripheral nerve deafness),that
studies listening and reading (or as many blind students call it, reading
by listening. Much of this research is relevant to decisions about the use
of print to speech technologies, audio books, simultaneous listening and
reading tools, and other audio and print technologies.

Some of you may be interested in my free workshop that I first presented in
1999. This includes numerous studies of listeing rate (i.e., how rapidly
can adult listen to stories and expository information without loosing
comprehension), how rapidly do adults choose to listen (ie,listening
fluency choices), how cn listening and reading be assessed ? (including
mesures of listenabiity and readability of text materials) and other
research and practice (see below). I have recently (2006) participated in
seminars in London, England on listening, speaking, and reading processes
and instruction with adult learners and have incorporated new research into
my workshop. I charge no fee for the workshop but sponsors have to pay
travel expenses. A description of the workshop follows.
Tom Sticht

Workshop on Listening & Reading Processes of Adults

Presented by Tom Sticht, International Consultant in Adult Education

Listening has been identified as a critical work-related skill but it has
been almost totally ignored in national assessments of adult literacy. 2008
is the 100th anniversary of E. B. Huey's 1908 classic book, "The Psychology
and Pedagogy of Reading" in which he stated that, "The child comes to his
first reader with his habits of spoken language fairly well formed, and
these habits grow more deeply set with every year. His meanings inhere in
this spoken language and belong but secondarily to the printed symbols
." . This workshop presents extensive research and data from the United
States and United Kingdom on the oracy (speaking and listening) skills of
adults and how these skills relate to workforce development and the
intergenerational transfer of language and literacy skills from parents to
their children.

Goals. The goals of the Workshop on Listening & Reading Processes of Adults
are (1) to summarize three decades of R & D on adults' listening and
reading skills; (2) to present information on writing as a second
signaling system for speech and how that involves phonemic awareness and
phonics training in bridging from listening to reading for information and
for learning, (3) to illustrate techniques for training listening skills
for learning by listening and to improve reading fluency and comprehension,
and (4) to illustrate how listening and literacy practices can be assessed
using various methods including using the use of the telephone to provide
assessments of the need for listening and literacy education among the
local adult population.

Outcomes. Following the workshop, participants will be able to (1) discuss
the R & D on listening and reading using specific references to the R & D
literature and use this information in their planning for adult literacy
education, (2) incorporate information about the place and manner of
articulation and other types of information relating listening and reading
processes of adults into their planning for program development that helps
adults bridge from oral to written language skills, (3) use this
information in planning for the development of teaching and learning
activities for both native language speakers and for English as an
additional language for non-native English speakers, and (4) apply the
information to the design and conduct of local needs assessments for adult
literacy education including the assessment of adults' knowledge and
literacy practices by listening in telephone interviews.

I charge no fee for any of these workshops or presentations, but sponsors
must pay travel expenses and make all arrangements for the events. Contact
me at tsticht at aznet.net if you want to arrange for a workshop (or other
presentation) in your area. Following is a list of my presently scheduled
meeting and speaking events for 2008. However, none of these deal with the
Workshop on Listening and Speaking Skills of Adults. In past years I have
enjoyed meeting many members of various discussion lists and putting faces
with names! I look forward to meeting many more this year!

1. completed February 1, Miami, Florida. Adult Education Miami Dade County
Public Schools. Contact: Darlene Kostrub, dskostrub at aol.com [Full day
presentation of Adult Literacy Education in Industrialized Nations]

2. completed February 15, Washington DC, Adult Literacy Research Working
Group (ALRWG). [Scheduled meeting of ALRWG members, no presentation]

3. completed March 13, Connecticut. Connecticut Association of Adult and
Continuing Education. Contact: Andy Tyskiewicz, atyskiewicz at crec.org
[Keynote and follow-up session]

4. April 4, 2008 Delaware, Rehoboth Beach, Delaware Association for Adult
Continuing Education. Contact: Matt Davis, mhdavis24 at yahoo.com [Keynote
and
follow-up session]

5. April 15, 2008 Marlborough, Massachusetts, ACLS Curriculum Conference.
Contact: Anne Holbrook, aholbrook at doe.mass.edu [Keynote and follow-up on
:double duty dollars"]

6. May 6, Georgia, Atlanta, Reading Hall of Fame (RHF), International
Reading Association. Contact: Tom Sticht, tsticht at aznet.net [Presentation
in a special RHF session celebrating 100 years of E. B. Huey's The
Psychology and Pedagogy of Reading]

7. June 20, New Mexico. New Mexico Coalition for Literacy. Contact: Heather
Heunermund,heather at nmcl.org [General session presentation]

8. August 7, North Carolina, Raleigh. N.C. C.C. Basic Skills Conference.
Contact: Karen Brown, kbrown at nccommunitycolleges.edu [General session
presentation]

References Used in the Listening & Reading Processes of Adults Workshop

Sticht, T. (2008). Listening, reading, and succeeding: a 40-year
perspective. In: C. Hudson (Ed.) The sound and the silence: key
perspectives on speaking and listening and Skills for Life. Nottingham,
England: Quality Improvement Agency.


Hofstetter, R., Sticht, T., and Hofstetter, C. (1999). Knowledge, literacy
and power. Communication Research, 26, 58-80.

Sticht, T., Hofstetter, R., and Hofstetter, C. (1996). Assessing adult
literacy by telephone. Journal of Literacy Research, 28, 525-559.

Sticht, T. and Armstrong, W. (1994, February). Adult Literacy in the United
States: A Compendium of Quantitative Data and Interpretive Comments.
Washington, DC: National Institute for Literacy.

Sticht, T. & McDonald, B. (1992). Teaching adults to read. In: J. Samuels &
A. Farstrup (Eds.) What Research Has to Say about Teaching Reading. Newark,
DE: International Reading Association.

Sticht, T. and James, J. (1984). Listening and reading. In: P. Pearson (Ed.)
Handbook of Research on Reading. New York: Longmans.

Sticht, T. (1984). Rate of comprehending by listening or reading. In: J.
Flood (Ed.) Understanding Reading Comprehension. Newark, DE: International
Reading Association.

Sticht, T. (1979). Applications of the AUDREAD model to reading evaluation
and instruction. In: L. Resnick and P. Weaver (Eds.), Theory and Practice
in Early Reading: Vol. 1, Hillsdale, N.J., Lawrence Erlbaum and Associates.

Sticht, T. (1978). The acquisition of literacy by children and adults. In:
F. Murray and J. Pikulski (Eds.) The Acquisition of Reading. Baltimore,
MD.: University Park Press.

Sticht, T., Beck, L., Hauke, R., Kleiman, G., and James, J. (1974).Auding
and Reading: A Developmental Model. Alexandria, VA.: Human Resources
Research Organization.

Sticht, T. (1972). Learning by listening. In: R. Freedle and J. Carroll
(Eds.) Language Comprehension and the Acquisition of Knowledge. Washington
D.C.: V.H. Winston & Sons.

Sticht T. and Gray, B. (1969). The intelligibility of time-compressed words
as a function of age and hearing loss. Journal of Speech and Hearing
Research, 12, 443-448.

Foulke, E. and Sticht, T. (1969). A review of research on the
intelligibility and comprehension of accelerated speech. Psychological
Bulletin, 72, 50-62.

Sticht, T.G. Some relationships of mental aptitude, reading, and listening
using normal and time-compressed speech. Journal of Communication, 1968,18,
243-258.

Sticht, T.G. Comprehension of repeated time-compressed recordings. Journal
of Experimental Education, 1969, 37, 60-62.

Sticht, T.G. Mental aptitude and comprehension of time-compressed and
compressed-expanded listening selections. Journal of Auditory Research,
1970, 10, 103-109.

Sticht, T.G. and Glasnapp, D.R. Effects of speech rate, selection
difficulty, association strength and mental aptitude on learning by
listening. Journal of Communication, 1972, 22, 174-188.

About Tom Sticht, UNESCO Mahatma Gandhi Medal Laureate

Tom Sticht is recognized internationally for his work on the education and
training of under-educated youth and adults. He holds a Ph.D in psychology
from the University of Arizona and has taught at numerous universities,
including the Harvard Graduate School of Education, University of British
Columbia, and the U. S. Navy Postgraduate Shool. He has published over 170
books and articles on the education of under-educated youth and adults. Dr.
Sticht has served on the Secretary of Labor's Commission on Achieving
Necessary Skills (SCANS); the National Commission on Working Women; and he
chaired the California Workforce Literacy Task Force. Earlier he was
President, Applied Behavioral & Cognitive Sciences, Inc. and Project
Coordinator for the San Diego Consortium for Workforce Education & Lifelong
Learning. Articles on Dr. Sticht's work have appeared in newspapers and
magazines in several countries including the New York Times, the Washington
Post, the Boston Globe, the London Times, the New Zealand Herald, and the
Wall Street Journal. In 1994, Dr. Sticht was the first adult literacy
specialist elected to the Reading Hall of Fame in the United States, in
1997 the Reading Research Quarterly reported that the work of Paulo Freire
and Tom Sticht were the two most influential lines of adult literacy
research in the last 30 years, and in 2003 he was awarded UNESCO?s Mahatma
Gandhi medal for 25 years of volunteer work on the International Literacy
Prize Jury that selects the annual winners of UNESCO literacy prizes..

For additional information contact Tom Sticht, Email: tsticht at aznet.net

Thomas G. Sticht
International Consultant in Adult Education
2062 Valley View Blvd.
El Cajon, CA 92019-2059
Tel/fax: (619)444-9595,
Email tsticht at aznet.




From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Sat Apr  5 08:55:36 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 08:55:36 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1282]  NAAL Data Set Training Seminar Announcement
Message-ID: <01d301c8971c$5805c230$0802a8c0@LITNOW>

NAAL Data Set Training Seminar Announcement 
Using the National Assessment of Adult Literacy Data file and Tools 
For Research, Secondary Analyses and Policy Development 
Wednesday, June 25, 2008 through Friday, June 27, 2008 
Washington, DC 
 
The National Center for Education Statistics (NCES), in the U.S
Department of Education's Institute of Education Sciences (IES), is
sponsoring a 2 1/2-day advanced studies seminar on the use of the
National Assessment of Adult Literacy (NAAL) data files and tools for
research and policy analyses. This seminar is open to institutional
researchers and planners, education practitioners, policymakers, and
association members, as well as faculty and advanced graduate students
from colleges and universities nationwide. 
 
The overall goal of the seminar is to provide participants with an
opportunity to use NAAL data in substantive research. The seminar will
include both lecture and hands-on instruction. Specifically, the seminar
will cover the following topics and activities: 
. an overview of NAAL data; 
. an overview of methodological and technological issues associated with
use of the NAAL, including sample design and coverage; 
. instruction on how to analyze NAAL data, with hands-on practice; and 
. help in designing and carrying out a research study. 
 
The summer data training will focus on use of the most recent data
available, which are from the 2003 collection. It should be noted that
this seminar does not provide formal instruction on advanced statistical
methods and analyses. 
 
There is no fee to attend this seminar. NCES will provide training
materials, as well as computers for hands-on practice. Accepted
applicants will be sent information about both the meeting and lodging
arrangements. 
 
DEADLINE: All applications should be received no later than MAY 14,
2008.  
For registration information and application instructions and more
information about NAAL, visit the NAAL  website
(http://nces.ed.gov/NAAL). 
 
Jaleh Behroozi Soroui
 <mailto:jsoroui at air.org> jsoroui at air.org
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Marie Cora
 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
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From aberryesq at hotmail.co.uk  Sun Apr  6 15:34:37 2008
From: aberryesq at hotmail.co.uk (Anthony Berry)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 20:34:37 +0100
Subject: [Assessment 1283] Re: NAAL Data Set Training Seminar Announcement
In-Reply-To: <01d301c8971c$5805c230$0802a8c0@LITNOW>
References: <01d301c8971c$5805c230$0802a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <BAY143-W331E02F2DA2ACDE20A4426EAF00@phx.gbl>


Hi
 
Could anyone help me out with any advice on the availability of computerised tests of vocabulary size suitable for use with adult EAL learners preferably with a diagnostic element that provides feedback to the learner in a timely and understandable fashion as well as providing the teacher with information about the learners' strengths and weaknesses for design of future learning/teaching outcomes.
 
Sorry if there are any 'funny' spellings - from the UK!
 
Thanks
 
Anthony Berry 
 
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.comTo: assessment at nifl.govDate: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 08:55:36 -0400Subject: [Assessment 1282] NAAL Data Set Training Seminar Announcement







NAAL Data Set Training Seminar Announcement 
Using the National Assessment of Adult Literacy Data file and Tools 
For Research, Secondary Analyses and Policy Development 
Wednesday, June 25, 2008 through Friday, June 27, 2008 
Washington, DC 
 
The National Center for Education Statistics (NCES), in the U.S Department of Education?s Institute of Education Sciences (IES), is sponsoring a 2 1/2-day advanced studies seminar on the use of the National Assessment of Adult Literacy (NAAL) data files and tools for research and policy analyses. This seminar is open to institutional researchers and planners, education practitioners, policymakers, and association members, as well as faculty and advanced graduate students from colleges and universities nationwide. 
 
The overall goal of the seminar is to provide participants with an opportunity to use NAAL data in substantive research. The seminar will include both lecture and hands-on instruction. Specifically, the seminar will cover the following topics and activities: 
? an overview of NAAL data; 
? an overview of methodological and technological issues associated with use of the NAAL, including sample design and coverage; 
? instruction on how to analyze NAAL data, with hands-on practice; and 
? help in designing and carrying out a research study. 
 
The summer data training will focus on use of the most recent data available, which are from the 2003 collection. It should be noted that this seminar does not provide formal instruction on advanced statistical methods and analyses. 
 
There is no fee to attend this seminar. NCES will provide training materials, as well as computers for hands-on practice. Accepted applicants will be sent information about both the meeting and lodging arrangements. 
 
DEADLINE: All applications should be received no later than MAY 14, 2008.  
For registration information and application instructions and more information about NAAL, visit the NAAL  website (http://nces.ed.gov/NAAL). 
 
Jaleh Behroozi Soroui
jsoroui at air.org
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Marie Cora
marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
_________________________________________________________________
Get Hotmail on your mobile. Text MSN to 63463 now!
http://mobile.uk.msn.com/pc/mail.aspx
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From sreid at workbase.org.nz  Sun Apr  6 16:33:28 2008
From: sreid at workbase.org.nz (Susan Reid)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 08:33:28 +1200
Subject: [Assessment 1284] Re: NAAL Data Set Training Seminar Announcement
Message-ID: <14794889A1E3AF419042F64CC5425A1E9DD691@secure.workbase.org.nz>

Hi Anthony 
not sure there is anything computerised that is free 
try this presentation there is information on there about some tests on
the ARCS site  
Adult Literacy Research Working Group (2008). From assessment to
practice: Research-based approaches to teaching adults to read: Part 2:
Fluency and vocabulary. Washington D.C.: National Institute for
Literacy.
http://www.nifl.gov/nifl/webcasts/assesspractice2/ALRWGwebcast2_final.pp
t

 
try this website too 
http://www.victoria.ac.nz/lals/staff/paul-nation/nation.aspx
The tests are not computerised but there is a huge amount of information
on here plus articles by Paul Nation about the traps of vocabulary tests
- what they assess and how they do it 
John Strucker has written on this too see CALPRO Research Digest 2007
sorry don't have url but you can google it 
UK spelling works for me 
regards Susan Reid 

Manager, Learning and Development 

 Workbase: The New Zealand Centre for Workforce Literacy Development 

2 Vermont Street, Ponsonby - PO Box 56571, Dominion Road, Auckland 1446
Phone: 09 361 3800 - Fax: 09 376 3700           
Website: www.workbase.org.nz <http://www.workbase.org.nz/>  - Email:
sreid at workbase.org.nz 
 
Caution - This email and its contents contain privileged information
that is intended solely for the recipient.  If you are not the intended
recipient you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
distribution or reproduction of this email is prohibited.  If you have
received this email in error please notify admin at workbase.org.nz
<mailto:admin at workbase.org.nz>  immediately.  Any views expressed in
this email are of the sender and may not necessarily reflect the views
of Workbase: The New Zealand Centre for Workforce Literacy Development.


________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Anthony Berry
Sent: Monday, 7 April 2008 7:35 a.m.
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1283] Re: NAAL Data Set Training Seminar
Announcement


Hi
 
Could anyone help me out with any advice on the availability of
computerised tests of vocabulary size suitable for use with adult EAL
learners preferably with a diagnostic element that provides feedback to
the learner in a timely and understandable fashion as well as providing
the teacher with information about the learners' strengths and
weaknesses for design of future learning/teaching outcomes.
 
Sorry if there are any 'funny' spellings - from the UK!
 
Thanks
 
Anthony Berry 
 
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 08:55:36 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1282] NAAL Data Set Training Seminar Announcement




	NAAL Data Set Training Seminar Announcement 

	Using the National Assessment of Adult Literacy Data file and
Tools 

	For Research, Secondary Analyses and Policy Development 

	Wednesday, June 25, 2008 through Friday, June 27, 2008 

	Washington, DC 

	 

	The National Center for Education Statistics (NCES), in the U.S
Department of Education's Institute of Education Sciences (IES), is
sponsoring a 2 1/2-day advanced studies seminar on the use of the
National Assessment of Adult Literacy (NAAL) data files and tools for
research and policy analyses. This seminar is open to institutional
researchers and planners, education practitioners, policymakers, and
association members, as well as faculty and advanced graduate students
from colleges and universities nationwide. 

	 

	The overall goal of the seminar is to provide participants with
an opportunity to use NAAL data in substantive research. The seminar
will include both lecture and hands-on instruction. Specifically, the
seminar will cover the following topics and activities: 

	* an overview of NAAL data; 

	* an overview of methodological and technological issues
associated with use of the NAAL, including sample design and coverage; 

	* instruction on how to analyze NAAL data, with hands-on
practice; and 

	* help in designing and carrying out a research study. 

	 

	The summer data training will focus on use of the most recent
data available, which are from the 2003 collection. It should be noted
that this seminar does not provide formal instruction on advanced
statistical methods and analyses. 

	 

	There is no fee to attend this seminar. NCES will provide
training materials, as well as computers for hands-on practice. Accepted
applicants will be sent information about both the meeting and lodging
arrangements. 

	 

	DEADLINE: All applications should be received no later than MAY
14, 2008.  

	For registration information and application instructions and
more information about NAAL, visit the NAAL  website
(http://nces.ed.gov/NAAL). 

	 

	Jaleh Behroozi Soroui

	jsoroui at air.org <mailto:jsoroui at air.org> 

	 

	 

	 

	 

	 

	 

	 

	 

	Marie Cora

	marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
<mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> 

	NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator

	http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

	 

	 


________________________________

A prize an hour, 24 hours a day. Try Big Snap now!
<http://www.bigsnapsearch.com>  
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From dlwann at comcast.net  Sun Apr  6 20:04:12 2008
From: dlwann at comcast.net (Dan)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 20:04:12 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1285] Re: NAAL Data Set Training Seminar Announcement
In-Reply-To: <BAY143-W331E02F2DA2ACDE20A4426EAF00@phx.gbl>
References: <01d301c8971c$5805c230$0802a8c0@LITNOW>
	<BAY143-W331E02F2DA2ACDE20A4426EAF00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <000601c89842$e9832a50$bc897ef0$@net>

This is not exactly what you asked for, but I have been using this site
recently for vocabulary development.  www.freerice.con  is a place where
students at all levels can learn vocabulary while they are earning funds for
the world hunger program.  If you explore the site and check out the FAQs
and also the link to World Hunger program you will find  lot to use with
classes.  I got this link from daughter, a Peace Corps volunteer in China
who is teaching English.  I have shared it with many colleagues here in
Indiana (USA).  

 

Dan Wann 

Adult Education Consultant and Teacher Trainer 

 

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Anthony Berry
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 3:35 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1283] Re: NAAL Data Set Training Seminar Announcement

 

Hi
 
Could anyone help me out with any advice on the availability of computerised
tests of vocabulary size suitable for use with adult EAL learners preferably
with a diagnostic element that provides feedback to the learner in a timely
and understandable fashion as well as providing the teacher with information
about the learners' strengths and weaknesses for design of future
learning/teaching outcomes.
 
Sorry if there are any 'funny' spellings - from the UK!
 
Thanks
 
Anthony Berry 
 
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 08:55:36 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1282] NAAL Data Set Training Seminar Announcement



NAAL Data Set Training Seminar Announcement 

Using the National Assessment of Adult Literacy Data file and Tools 

For Research, Secondary Analyses and Policy Development 

Wednesday, June 25, 2008 through Friday, June 27, 2008 

Washington, DC 

 

The National Center for Education Statistics (NCES), in the U.S Department
of Education's Institute of Education Sciences (IES), is sponsoring a 2
1/2-day advanced studies seminar on the use of the National Assessment of
Adult Literacy (NAAL) data files and tools for research and policy analyses.
This seminar is open to institutional researchers and planners, education
practitioners, policymakers, and association members, as well as faculty and
advanced graduate students from colleges and universities nationwide. 

 

The overall goal of the seminar is to provide participants with an
opportunity to use NAAL data in substantive research. The seminar will
include both lecture and hands-on instruction. Specifically, the seminar
will cover the following topics and activities: 

. an overview of NAAL data; 

. an overview of methodological and technological issues associated with use
of the NAAL, including sample design and coverage; 

. instruction on how to analyze NAAL data, with hands-on practice; and 

. help in designing and carrying out a research study. 

 

The summer data training will focus on use of the most recent data
available, which are from the 2003 collection. It should be noted that this
seminar does not provide formal instruction on advanced statistical methods
and analyses. 

 

There is no fee to attend this seminar. NCES will provide training
materials, as well as computers for hands-on practice. Accepted applicants
will be sent information about both the meeting and lodging arrangements. 

 

DEADLINE: All applications should be received no later than MAY 14, 2008.  

For registration information and application instructions and more
information about NAAL, visit the NAAL  website (http://nces.ed.gov/NAAL). 

 

Jaleh Behroozi Soroui

 <mailto:jsoroui at air.org> jsoroui at air.org

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Marie Cora

 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator

http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

 

 

  _____  

A prize an hour, 24 hours a day. Try Big Snap now!
<http://www.bigsnapsearch.com%0d%0a%20%0d%0a> 

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From apark at air.org  Mon Apr  7 12:38:51 2008
From: apark at air.org (Park, Amy)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 12:38:51 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1286] Re: NAAL Data Set Training Seminar Announcement
In-Reply-To: <14794889A1E3AF419042F64CC5425A1E9DD691@secure.workbase.org.nz>
References: <14794889A1E3AF419042F64CC5425A1E9DD691@secure.workbase.org.nz>
Message-ID: <250B821CF9888D4ABAA1B6CEC3EB8A550802B5@DC1EXCL01.air.org>

The CALPRO Research Digest Series on Evidence-Based Reading Instruction
can be downloaded from http://www.calpro-online.org/pubs.asp. John
Strucker was a contributor for this series on the four major components
of reading. 

 

Amy

 

Research Analyst 
CA Adult Literacy Professional Development Project (CALPRO) 
American Institutes for Research
Sacramento, California
www.calpro-online.org <http://www.calpro-online.org>  

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Susan Reid
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 1:33 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1284] Re: NAAL Data Set Training Seminar
Announcement

 

Hi Anthony 

not sure there is anything computerised that is free 

try this presentation there is information on there about some tests on
the ARCS site  

Adult Literacy Research Working Group (2008). From assessment to
practice: Research-based approaches to teaching adults to read: Part 2:
Fluency and vocabulary. Washington D.C.: National Institute for
Literacy.
http://www.nifl.gov/nifl/webcasts/assesspractice2/ALRWGwebcast2_final.pp
t

 

try this website too 

http://www.victoria.ac.nz/lals/staff/paul-nation/nation.aspx

The tests are not computerised but there is a huge amount of information
on here plus articles by Paul Nation about the traps of vocabulary tests
- what they assess and how they do it 

John Strucker has written on this too see CALPRO Research Digest 2007
sorry don't have url but you can google it 

UK spelling works for me 

regards Susan Reid 

Manager, Learning and Development 

Workbase: The New Zealand Centre for Workforce Literacy Development 

2 Vermont Street, Ponsonby - PO Box 56571, Dominion Road, Auckland 1446
Phone: 09 361 3800 - Fax: 09 376 3700           
Website: www.workbase.org.nz <http://www.workbase.org.nz/>  - Email:
sreid at workbase.org.nz 
 
Caution - This email and its contents contain privileged information
that is intended solely for the recipient.  If you are not the intended
recipient you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
distribution or reproduction of this email is prohibited.  If you have
received this email in error please notify admin at workbase.org.nz
<mailto:admin at workbase.org.nz>  immediately.  Any views expressed in
this email are of the sender and may not necessarily reflect the views
of Workbase: The New Zealand Centre for Workforce Literacy Development.

 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Anthony Berry
Sent: Monday, 7 April 2008 7:35 a.m.
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1283] Re: NAAL Data Set Training Seminar
Announcement

Hi
 
Could anyone help me out with any advice on the availability of
computerised tests of vocabulary size suitable for use with adult EAL
learners preferably with a diagnostic element that provides feedback to
the learner in a timely and understandable fashion as well as providing
the teacher with information about the learners' strengths and
weaknesses for design of future learning/teaching outcomes.
 
Sorry if there are any 'funny' spellings - from the UK!
 
Thanks
 
Anthony Berry 
 
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 08:55:36 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1282] NAAL Data Set Training Seminar Announcement



NAAL Data Set Training Seminar Announcement 

Using the National Assessment of Adult Literacy Data file and Tools 

For Research, Secondary Analyses and Policy Development 

Wednesday, June 25, 2008 through Friday, June 27, 2008 

Washington, DC 

 

The National Center for Education Statistics (NCES), in the U.S
Department of Education's Institute of Education Sciences (IES), is
sponsoring a 2 1/2-day advanced studies seminar on the use of the
National Assessment of Adult Literacy (NAAL) data files and tools for
research and policy analyses. This seminar is open to institutional
researchers and planners, education practitioners, policymakers, and
association members, as well as faculty and advanced graduate students
from colleges and universities nationwide. 

 

The overall goal of the seminar is to provide participants with an
opportunity to use NAAL data in substantive research. The seminar will
include both lecture and hands-on instruction. Specifically, the seminar
will cover the following topics and activities: 

* an overview of NAAL data; 

* an overview of methodological and technological issues associated with
use of the NAAL, including sample design and coverage; 

* instruction on how to analyze NAAL data, with hands-on practice; and 

* help in designing and carrying out a research study. 

 

The summer data training will focus on use of the most recent data
available, which are from the 2003 collection. It should be noted that
this seminar does not provide formal instruction on advanced statistical
methods and analyses. 

 

There is no fee to attend this seminar. NCES will provide training
materials, as well as computers for hands-on practice. Accepted
applicants will be sent information about both the meeting and lodging
arrangements. 

 

DEADLINE: All applications should be received no later than MAY 14,
2008.  

For registration information and application instructions and more
information about NAAL, visit the NAAL  website
(http://nces.ed.gov/NAAL). 

 

Jaleh Behroozi Soroui

jsoroui at air.org <mailto:jsoroui at air.org> 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Marie Cora

marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> 

NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator

http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

 

 

________________________________

A prize an hour, 24 hours a day. Try Big Snap now!
<http://www.bigsnapsearch.com%20>  

-------------- next part --------------
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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Tue Apr  8 11:05:58 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 11:05:58 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1287] FW: WE LEARN seeks teachers' viewpoints ... and
	other news
Message-ID: <00fa01c8998a$0dc526a0$5500000a@LITNOW>

Hi everyone,
 
I wanted to forward you all this request for papers - I realize that
this isn't focused on assessment - but I was thinking that perhaps there
are folks out there who do work with women in various contexts in which
you need to be doing assessment.  And so I'm curious:  have you found
differences when doing assessment in terms of working with men and
women?  If so, can you talk about this a little bit here?  And I also
would encourage anyone with interest to write for the publication.
 
Thanks!
Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
 
*********************************
 
April News Briefs from WE LEARN
 
*** Call for Writings from ABE Practitioners (especially teachers) ***
Empowering Women through Literacy: Views from Experience
Edited by Mev Miller, Ed.D. and Kathleen King, Ed.D.
We invite practitioners working in adult basic/literacy education --
classroom teachers, educators, tutors, adimistrators, and researchers --
to make a proposal for what you'd like to contribute to  a book of
writings and artwork by adult basic education teachers/educators
addressing women's literacy issues.
Topics Explored: Barriers and Challenges to Discussing Women's Issues in
Literacy Classes or Addressing Them in Programs;
Experiences Empowering Women in Literacy; Contextual Approaches for
Empowering Women in Literacy
Deadline for Proposals: May 30, 2008
For more details, please visit:
http://www.litwomen.org/educators/newbook.html
 
 
*** Participate in creating the April 2008 newsletter.... ***
News? Women-Centered lesson plans? Reflections on participating in
Women's Perspectives #3? Please send us items for the newsletter... The
writing doesn't need to be long - but we'd like your input, pictures,
artwork....
DEADLINE for newsletter submissions - April 15, 2008
 
 
*** Women's Perspectives #3 is now available. ***
This issue focuses on Women & Money. For more details, please visit:
http://www.litwomen.org/perspectives.html
 
 
WE LEARN members.... The April Newsletter will be mailed by the end of
the month along with the 2007 Annual Report. The newsletter will include
information from the conference, listing of new resources, and many
other fun stories.  If you would like to receive a copy by mail, please
be sure your membership is current. If you have received a renewal
notice, please renew right away in order to receive the newsletter. Not
yet a member? Please join us. You may use the Internet to join
[https://secure.groundspring.org/dn/index.php?aid=21802 ] or download
the form: http://www.litwomen.org/membership.html#form
 
Happy Spring
 
Mev Miller, Ed.D., Director
welearn at litwomen.org
 
WE LEARN
Women Expanding: Literacy Education Action Resource Network
www.litwomen.org/welearn.html
 
182 Riverside Ave.
Cranston, RI 02910
401-383-4374
 
 
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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Wed Apr  9 09:08:43 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 09:08:43 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1288]  NAASLN offerings at COABE
Message-ID: <009101c89a42$d8d97c70$5500000a@LITNOW>

Colleagues:  some of you may be interested in the offerings below.
There is a session on screening ESOL learners for special needs, as well
as a session on accommodations for the GED.
 
Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
 
*****************************************
 
Greetings ListServ Readers!

The National Association for Adults with Special Learning Needs is
pleased to announce another great NAASLN Track at COABE '08.   

All participants at NAASLN's sessions will be offered an introductory
NAASLN membership at no cost!

The listing of this years' sessions include:

Special Learning Needs:  Incidence and Implications for Building
Persistence 
Part A & B
Laura Weisel, Ph.D.,  Clinical Director, The TLP Group 
Barbara Arguedas, Director, Santa Fe Community College, NM
Susan Geary, Instructor, Santa Fe Community College, NM
Karen Hibbert, Director of Education, West Central Community
Corrections,  OH 
Margaret Girkins, Director of ABE, Flathead Valley Community College, MT
                 
Tuesday, April 29
Part A - 9:30-10:30 am
Part B - 11:00 - Noon
As highlighted in the Spring 2008 KET Quarterly, the incidence of
special learning needs in the adult basic and literacy population is
astonishingly high!  This comes to no surprise to instructors, but what
does it mean if these needs go unmet?   

In Part A - The 3 Year Incidence of Special Learning Needs Study in ABE
will be presented. What does this data mean for your program and your
services?  What are programs doing to identify and address the key
challenges to persistence, learning gains, and successful transitions? 

In Part B -  Administrators and instructors will enter into a dialogue
with participants about what they are doing to address  special needs.
Programs identifying and addressing these needs have, in controlled
studies, demonstrated over 200% increases in persistence and 67%
increases in post-testing.    

Join this two part session to get the facts straight about the
underlying learning issues of ABE students and discuss the systemic
shifts that have empowered and enabled learners to overcome learning
challenges and show dramatic learning gains. 
          

Screening ESOL Learners for Special Learning Needs: An Open Dialogue
Laura Weisel, Ph.D., Facilitator of Dialogue
Tuesday, 2:15-3:15pm

If the incidence of special learning needs is so very high in the
general adult basic and literacy population, what might the incidence be
the special learning needs of ESOL students?  

Join this open dialogue session to 1). Discuss the issues in screening
ESOL students for special learning needs, 2).  Share what you and your
program are doing to identify ESOL students that have learning
challenges, and 3).  Identify how ESOL students with special learning
needs can be more successful academically and better able to transition
into job training  or post secondary programs.


Leveling the Playing Field with Adaptations and Accommodations:  
Making the GED Work for Special Need Students!
Connie Leading, GED Accommodations Specialist, OH Department of
Education 
Mario Payne, GED-TS, Washington DC
Tuesday, 3:45-4:45pm

Adults with special learning needs taking the GED fall into two
categories: (1) adults with documented ADA disabilities who require
accommodations such as extended time, supervised breaks, scribes, and
audiocassettes and (2) adults, for whom teachers have identified
learning needs requiring adaptations or modifications such as
magnifiers, colored overlays, straight edges, rooms without fluorescent
lighting, etc. These later adaptations do not require prior approval by
the GED State offices. Both of these areas will be discussed in the
presentation.


The ADA and Adult Education 
Bevan Gibson, Director of Professional Development, Southern IL
University
Wednesday, 9:30-10:30am

The Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 has several implications for
adult education.  The Illinois Community College Board and the Illinois
Adult Education Service Center Network have been working with programs
in Illinois to bring them into compliance with the ADA.  Come see what
Illinois has been doing and how you might be able to use the information
for your state's ADA compliance issues.


Serving Offenders with Special Learning Needs: 
A Look at the Problem and New Solutions
Alan Toops,  Executive Director,  The Ohio Literacy Network
Wednesday, 11:00-Noon

Many states are currently implementing holistic diagnostic screening for
special learning needs in correction education programs. The findings of
offenders' special needs appeared in the Corrections edition of NCSALL's
Focus on Basics.   This session offers new data profiling the special
learning needs of offenders, discuss how education and others services
are being re-designed based upon these needs, and implications for
corrections education systemic improvements are happening at both the
system and direct service levels.  


Undetected and Undiagnosed Vision Problems - 
Obstructions to Literacy and Successful Transition to the Workforce
Joan Hudson-Miller, Library Reproduction Service, CA
Wednesday, 2:15-3:15pm

The percentage of adult learners who are struggling to succeed because
of undetected and undiagnosed vision problems is extremely high. Become
more familiar with the wide range of mild to severe perceptual problems
and impairments, learn some practical screening procedures. and acquire
a list of referral resources for evaluation, diagnosis and treatment.


Structured Learning for the Unstructured     
Thursday, 9:45-10:45am 
Richard Cooper, Ph.D., Center for Alternative Learning

Many students who have learning or attention problems manifest poor
organizational skills and to lack structure.  This presentation will
provide participants with techniques to help learners to improve their
reading, writing and spelling skills.  Participants will receive
handouts that they can use with their students to structure the learning
of language.



 
Marie Cora
marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
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From tsticht at znet.com  Sat Apr 19 16:32:46 2008
From: tsticht at znet.com (tsticht at znet.com)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 13:32:46 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1289]  E. B. Huey Celebration
Message-ID: <1208637166.480a56ee3e7c0@webmail.znet.net>

Colleagues: This is a follow-up to my earlier "mark your calendar" message
to remind those of you who may be attending the International Reading
Association's national conference in Atlanta May 5-9, 2008 to try to attend
 a Reading Hall of Fame program: The Psychology and Pedagogy of Reading:  E.
B. Huey, One Hundred Years Later, May 6th, 2008, 2-4pm, Atlanta, GA, Georgia
World Congress Center, Room C307. Papers will be presented by several
members of the Reading Hall of Fame including my own, which will focus on
adult literacy research and education. Following is a brief overview of the
program and an expanded list of the topics I will cover in my paper. Hope to
see many of you at the session! Tom Sticht

Program Title: The Psychology and Pedagogy of Reading;
E. B. Huey  One Hundred Years Later

Introduction to E. B. Huey's 1908 Work and the Program of the Day
Rob Tierney, University of British Columbia, Chair of Panel

Huey's Perspectives Related to Whole Language Research and Pedagogy
Yetta Goodman, University of Arizona

Huey's Work on Automaticity, Fluency, and Comprehension in Reading
Jay Samuels and Rosalind Horowitz, University of Minnesota

Huey's Thoughts on Oral Language in Relation to  Reading
Tom Sticht, International Consultant in Adult Education

Huey's Work and Its Impact on Scientific Research on Reading
Patrick Shannon, Pennsylvania State University

Discussant
Alan Farstrup, Executive Director, International Reading Association


Here is the expanded version of my presentation topics:

Paper Title: Huey's Thoughts on Oral Language in Relation to  Reading:
Toward a Multiple Life Cycles Education Policy

Presenter: Tom Sticht, International Consultant in Adult Education

In his classic book on The Psychology and Pedagogy of Reading (1908) Edmund
Burke Huey includes, among others,  a chapter on inner speech during
reading, a second chapter on learning to read at home in which he
emphasizes the role that parents play in leading children to reading, and a
third chapter in which he alludes to the need for schools to teach parents
how to facilitate their children's learning at home.  In this presentation
I will look at aspects of these three chapters, review research on the
Oracy to Literacy Transfer Effect, the Intergenerational Transfer of
Literacy,  and implications of Huey's ideas and the empirical research
since his writing for what I call a Multiple Life Cycles education policy.

Extracts from The Psychology and Pedagogy of Reading by Edmund Burke Huey,
1908, on which I will build my presentation:

Chapter VI  The Inner Speech of Reading And the  Mental and Physical
Characteristics of Speech

"The child comes to his first reader with his habits of spoken language
fairly well formed, and these habits grow more deeply set with every year.
His meanings inhere in this spoken language and belong but secondarily to
the printed symbols
.To read is, in effect, to translate writing into
speech." (Huey, 1908/1968, pp. 122-123).

Chapter XVI Learning to Read at Home

"The secret of it all lies in the parent's reading aloud to and with the
child. 
The ear and not the eye is the nearest gateway to the child-soul,
if not indeed to the man-soul. Oral work is certain to displace much of the
present written work in the school of the future, and least in the earlier
years; and at home there is scarcely a more commendable and useful practice
than that of reading much of good things aloud to the children." (p. 332 &
334)

Chapter XV The Views of Representative Educators Concerning Early Reading

"Where children have good homes, reading will thus be learned independently
of school. Where parents have not the time or intelligence to assist in
this way
the school of the future will have as one of its important duties
the instruction of parents in the means of assisting the child's natural
learning in the home." (pp. 311-312)

tsticht at aznet.net



From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Mon Apr 21 20:26:37 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:26:37 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1290]  GED-i COABE Session and Recption
Message-ID: <00f501c8a40f$876afea0$0802a8c0@LITNOW>

Colleagues, some of you may be interested in the following post.
 
Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
 
******************************************
 
Hi All,

I am excited to share information about the GED-i Project at this year's
COABE Conference. The GED-i curriculum is an interactive and instructor
facilitated online curriculum that is aligned with the skill sets adult
learners need to develop in order to be successful. The practice
components in the curriculum replicate what the learner will experience
in the GED exam.

GED-i Curriculum Information
*	102 interactive lessons with 220 learning checks and
supplemental lessons for additional skills.
*	23 unit reviews presented in a multiple-choice format reflective
of the GED exam.
*	37 drill and practice worksheets that reflect the content of the
lessons.
*	Pre- and Post-surveys for each module provide direction for
instruction and learning, and are presented as multiple-choice exams
similar to what is included in the GED test.

Other GED-i Highlights
Curricular pieces also include a flash animation activity that provides
instruction on how to use the GED calculator; specific lessons relating
to both writing and scoring the GED Essay; and lessons regarding filling
out the alternate format grids. There is also a Consumer Education
curriculum piece to focus not only on preparing for the GED Tests but
also on necessary life skills associated with success in daily life.

What's New
The GED-i is happy to announce a NEW WAY to ACCESS GED-i for use in a
classroom/lab setting beginning in Fall 2008. The GED-i Classroom will
enable users access to the curriculum from designated computers at their
program. If you are looking for an online curriculum that is
field-tested, nationally recognized, and is in alignment with the GED
Tests, the GED-i Classroom will meet your needs.

For More Information
We continually hear from program administrators that this distance
learning option provides their students with an avenue for continued
classroom participation and success.  As a very field driven project -
we continually grow and improve based on input from administrators,
instructors, and adult learners.   In order to learn more about GED-i
and the GED-i Classroom, you can visit www.info.ged-i.org or attend an
informational meeting at the COABE Conference.

COABE Conference, St. Louis, MO
The GED-i - What You Need To Know Meeting
Monday, April 28, 2008
5:30PM-7:30PM
St. Louis Room A (Fourth Floor)
(Snacks and refreshments will be served.)

COABE Conference, St. Louis MO
The 3 Rs of GED-I:  Recruitment + Retention = Results!
Date:   Thursday, May 1, 2008
Time:   9:45-10:45AM
Room:  St. Louis G

You can also contact me, Crystal Hack, GED-i Project Coordinator, by
email at chack at cait.org or by phone at 309.298.1804.

I hope to see you in person at COABE.

Take care.

Sincerely,

Crystal Hack
GED-i Project Coordinator
www.info.ged-i.org


--
Center for the Application of Information Technologies
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From djrosen at comcast.net  Tue Apr 22 08:28:51 2008
From: djrosen at comcast.net (David J. Rosen)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 08:28:51 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1291]  Assessment metaphors,
	the state of the art of assessment,
	and the America's Promise Alliance study
Message-ID: <4C5180C1-F156-4074-A2CA-5E66100B915A@comcast.net>

Assessment Colleagues,

I would like to raise three (possibly inter-related) topics for  
discussion: assessment metaphors, the state of the art of assessment,  
and the America's Promise Alliance study.

1) Assessment Metaphors

  In 2005 there was a discussion here about assessment metaphors. It  
is archived on the ALE Wiki at

http://wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Assessment_Metaphors

Here's a summary of what's on the ALE Wiki page:

1) Standardized testing may not always be the sharpest knife in the  
drawer.
2) Let's use the best knives we have, but also get some better knives.
3) Let's not use knives when spoons or forks are better.
4) Avoid using knives to hammer nails or fasten buttons.
5) Let's not use "the only knife in the drawer" to cut the throat of  
learners in programs with just literacy level one ( whom *I* believe  
it's unrealistic to expect will increase two grade levels in one  
reporting period).
6) Let's train those with knives to use them properly.
7) Using a knife to eat peas or mashed potatoes is inefficient and  
uncouth. If you don't have forks and spoons, don't settle for using  
knives.
8) Utensils may help in cooking, but only if there's food to cook. (A  
kitchen version of my favorite farming metaphor for testing, "You  
don't fatten a calf by weighing it.")
9) We must understand the limitations of measurement, like viewing  
the heavens through a bamboo tube or measuring the ocean with a spoon
10) Assessment can be like a ladder, measuring upward movement a step  
at a time

Are there any other metaphors subscribers would like to add?

2) State of the Art of Adult Literacy Assessment

Do some of these metaphors prompt thoughts about assessment in adult  
literacy education today? For example, do you agree with "don't  
settle for using knives if you don't have forks and spoons" ? Do you  
see that as relevant to what you experience as you use standardized  
assessments in your classroom or program? If so, what should be done  
about it? What is being done about it? Are there new, better  
standardized assessments now than in 2005? Are we making progress?   
Do we have better measures? Do we have better student performance, or  
are we still weighing the calf without fattening it?

3) America's Promise Alliance Study's Findings

What's a good metaphor for the findings of the Gates Foundation- 
funded America's Promise Alliance study, that we now have 30% of the  
nation's youth, and 50% of urban youth being "left behind" without a  
high school diploma?

Do you like

	If you want better performance, it takes more than raising the bar

Or are there other metaphors you would like to suggest?

http://www.americaspromise.org/uploadedFiles/AmericasPromiseAlliance/ 
Dropout_Crisis/SWANSONCitiesInCrisis040108.pdf

What are the implications of the America's Promise Alliance study  
findings for adult literacy education?

David J. Rosen
djrosen at comcast.net



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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Tue Apr 22 11:30:11 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:30:11 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1292] Formative Assessment Publications available on
	OECD/CERI Web Site
Message-ID: <021b01c8a48d$c1b41e10$0802a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi everyone,
 
The following post with resources focused on formative assessment may be
of interest to some of you.
 
Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
  
 
   
Colleagues,
 
If you participated in the discussion on formative assessment in
February, you might be interested to read the OECD/CERI conference
presentations, case studies and literature reviews (all free, online.
See below.)
 
Key stakeholders discussing teaching, learning and assessment for adults

On February 13-15 2008, the Organisation of Economic Co-operation and
Development (OECD)'s Centre for Educational Research and Innovation
(CERI) brought together policy makers, researchers and practitioners
from over twenty countries to focus on formative assessment in adult
literacy education. The conference was also the occasion to launch a new
report, Teaching, Learning and Assessment for Adults:  Improving
Foundation Skills.
To find out more:
Presentations and notesfrom the conference sessions
http://www.oecd.org/document/59/0,3343,en_2649_35845581_40166779_1_1_1_1
,00.html
Executive summary of the publication
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/61/22/40026459.pdf
Related case studies and literature reviews
http://www.oecd.org/document/18/0,3343,en_2649_35845581_39972050_1_1_1_1
,00.html
 
David J. Rosen
special Topics Discussion Moderator
djrosen at comcast.net
 
 
 
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From bercovitzl at thecenterweb.org  Tue Apr 22 13:11:45 2008
From: bercovitzl at thecenterweb.org (Laurie Bercovitz)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 12:11:45 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1293] Re: Assessment metaphors,
	the state of the art of assessment,
	and the America's Promise Alliance study
Message-ID: <DDB3820159838B4594D5E87A48297CE50225112D@web5.thecenterweb.org>

More Assessment Metaphors:

 

Know which utensils serve what purposes - knives have their uses, but so
do forks, teaspoons, soup spoons, salad forks, spatulas, etc.  Some or
all may be needed to follow a recipe.

 

You need drawers that can hold all the different utensils so that the
correct ones are available as needed.

 

You need a kitchen that can accommodate all the drawers - remodeling
might be necessary.

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of David J. Rosen
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 7:29 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1291] Assessment metaphors,the state of the art of
assessment,and the America's Promise Alliance study

 

Assessment Colleagues,

 

I would like to raise three (possibly inter-related) topics for
discussion: assessment metaphors, the state of the art of assessment,
and the America's Promise Alliance study. 

 

1) Assessment Metaphors

 

 In 2005 there was a discussion here about assessment metaphors. It is
archived on the ALE Wiki at

 

http://wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Assessment_Metaphors

 

Here's a summary of what's on the ALE Wiki page:

 

1) Standardized testing may not always be the sharpest knife in the
drawer.

2) Let's use the best knives we have, but also get some better knives.

3) Let's not use knives when spoons or forks are better.

4) Avoid using knives to hammer nails or fasten buttons.

5) Let's not use "the only knife in the drawer" to cut the throat of
learners in programs with just literacy level one ( whom *I* believe
it's unrealistic to expect will increase two grade levels in one
reporting period).

6) Let's train those with knives to use them properly.

7) Using a knife to eat peas or mashed potatoes is inefficient and
uncouth. If you don't have forks and spoons, don't settle for using
knives.

8) Utensils may help in cooking, but only if there's food to cook. (A
kitchen version of my favorite farming metaphor for testing, "You don't
fatten a calf by weighing it.")

9) We must understand the limitations of measurement, like viewing the
heavens through a bamboo tube or measuring the ocean with a spoon

10) Assessment can be like a ladder, measuring upward movement a step at
a time

 

Are there any other metaphors subscribers would like to add?

 

2) State of the Art of Adult Literacy Assessment

 

Do some of these metaphors prompt thoughts about assessment in adult
literacy education today? For example, do you agree with "don't settle
for using knives if you don't have forks and spoons" ? Do you see that
as relevant to what you experience as you use standardized assessments
in your classroom or program? If so, what should be done about it? What
is being done about it? Are there new, better standardized assessments
now than in 2005? Are we making progress?  Do we have better measures?
Do we have better student performance, or are we still weighing the calf
without fattening it?

 

3) America's Promise Alliance Study's Findings

 

What's a good metaphor for the findings of the Gates Foundation-funded
America's Promise Alliance study, that we now have 30% of the nation's
youth, and 50% of urban youth being "left behind" without a high school
diploma?

 

Do you like

 

            If you want better performance, it takes more than raising
the bar  

 

Or are there other metaphors you would like to suggest?

 

http://www.americaspromise.org/uploadedFiles/AmericasPromiseAlliance/Dro
pout_Crisis/SWANSONCitiesInCrisis040108.pdf

 

What are the implications of the America's Promise Alliance study
findings for adult literacy education?

 

David J. Rosen

djrosen at comcast.net

 





 

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From tsticht at znet.com  Tue Apr 22 17:12:34 2008
From: tsticht at znet.com (tsticht at znet.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:12:34 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1294]  Variations on Free Speeches and Workshops
Message-ID: <1208898754.480e54c2458df@webmail.znet.net>

Colleagues: In the last few years I have been doing free speeches or
workshops for adult literacy groups. Recently, I have found that some
groups like a variation on either a keynote or a one day workshop and
instead like to combine them or do other types of programs. For instance,
January of 2007 I did a keynote in the Dublin, Ireland area followed by a
breakout session. Then the next day I did a policy-oriented presentation
for various government officials. In September of 2007 I did a program for
the Pima College adult education group in which on one day I did a keynote
for some 200 staff, then over the next two days I did two presentations a
day for smaller groups in different branches of the college. Then in
February of this year, I spoke in Miami for the Miami Dade adult education
group where I did a keynote for all 800 participants in the opening session
of the meeting, then I did a breakout session before lunch and another after
lunch followed by another keynote to the full group which closed the day. In
both Connecticut and Delaware this year I did a keynote and a breakout
concurrent session. In Massachusetts recently I did a keynote for a meeting
on integrated curriculum models followed by a concurrent, breakout group.
Then the next day I did a presentation for Department of Education senior
staff.

On June 20, 2008 I will present another variant of a one-day program for the
New Mexico Coalition for Literacy conference in Socorro, New Mexico. My
program will include an opening morning keynote presentation in a plenary
session followed by two concurrent sessions, one in the morning and another
in the afternoon (see description below).  For information about the
conference contact: Heather Heunermund, Executive Director at
1-800-233-7587 or email  heather at nmcl.org

For a discussion  about having one of my keynotes, workshops or a specially
arranged programs in your area contact me at tsticht at aznet.net  All my
presentations are free, though sponsors have to pay travel expenses. Hope
to see several list members at the conference June!  Tom Sticht

New Mexico Coalition for Literacy Conference June 20, 2008 in Socorro, NM
Program by Tom Sticht

Keynote from 9:05 to 9:45am.  Title:  "The Lions of Literacy: Teaching With
R.E.S.P.E.C.T.

This is a motivational presentation that emphasizes the importance of seven
factors starting with the letters R.E.S.P.E.C.T. in teaching adult literacy
learners, with an emphasis upon R for Relevance. I then review contributions
of four great pioneer teachers of adult literacy and how their work, which
focused upon the Relevance of learning to learners, contributed to the
empowerment and social inclusion of millions of adults in the United
States.

Concurrent Session from 10:15-12:00.  Title: Meeting the Yearning for
Learning

Using research and insights from Australia, Canada, Ireland, New Zealand,
England and the United States this presentation focuses on policies,
initiatives, and methods for fostering learning both inside and outside the
classroom or tutoring session. A personal perspective is provided on
increasing participation in the United Kingdom (England): From the Right to
Read To The Skills for Life Strategy. Issues regarding participation,
retention, persistence, progression, achievement, and accountability are
addressed. Advocacy for adult literacy education is called for by
emphasizing multiple returns to investments in adult literacy education 
(getting "Double Duty Dollars" (Australia, Canada, New Zealand & U.S.)
"More Power for the Pound" (England) and "More Energy for the Euro"
(Ireland).

Lunch 12:00-1:30pm

Concurrent Session from 1:45-3:30. Title: From Parents to Progeny: The
Intergenerational Transfer of Literacy

This session focuses on preventing literacy problems from occurring across
generations by promoting the intergenerational transfer of literacy from
parents to their progeny. Research is reviewed on early childhood
development, IQ, brain science, and adult literacy, including the debunking
of myths that hold adult literacy education back. Understanding the role of
parent's education, language and literacy  development on the subsequent
language and literacy development of their children aims at moving away
from a lifelong(one life cycle) education policy to a multiple life cycles
policy for education that emphasizes the importance of education and
learning for both children and adults.




From Janet at cfmco.org  Mon Apr 28 19:27:17 2008
From: Janet at cfmco.org (Janet Shing)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:27:17 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1295]  Plazas Comunitarias - Spanish Literacy
Message-ID: <E13BD7BBF169494C8ECE80225B561E815219EC@sbs.cfmco.org>

Hi Everyone,

 

There is a growing interest in the Plazas Comunitarias program (Spanish
literacy program with the Mexican government, INEA,
http://www.conevyt.org.mx/) where I work in Monterey County, CA.

 

I would appreciate any information you have on peer-reviewed research
reports regarding the effectiveness of the Plazas Comunitarias program. 

<http://www.cfmco.org> 

Thank you,

 

Janet

 

Janet Shing

Literacy Campaign for Monterey County - Reading is Power,
www.literacycampaignmc.org <http://www.literacycampaignmc.org/> 

Community Foundation for Monterey County - Here for Good, www.cfmco.org

(831) 375-9712 x123 

janet at cfmco.org

 

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From andresmuro at aol.com  Tue Apr 29 18:51:30 2008
From: andresmuro at aol.com (Andres Muro)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:51:30 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1296] Re: Plazas Comunitarias - Spanish Literacy
In-Reply-To: <E13BD7BBF169494C8ECE80225B561E815219EC@sbs.cfmco.org>
References: <E13BD7BBF169494C8ECE80225B561E815219EC@sbs.cfmco.org>
Message-ID: <8CA7862B31FBA76-448-3B46@WEBMAIL-MA05.sysops.aol.com>


 We have a Plaza Comunitaria. However, we have no peer reviewed articles on it. I can give you my perspective if you like but it has not been reviewed by any peers beyond my co-workers, funders, and students. 

Andres


 


Please visit my art website at:
http://www.geocities.com/andresmuro/art.html

 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Janet Shing <Janet at cfmco.org>
To: Assessment at nifl.gov
Sent: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 5:27 pm
Subject: [Assessment 1295]  Plazas Comunitarias - Spanish Literacy































Hi
Everyone,



?



There
is a growing interest in the Plazas Comunitarias program (Spanish literacy
program with the Mexican government, INEA, http://www.conevyt.org.mx/)
where I work in Monterey County,
 CA.



?



I
would appreciate any information you have on peer-reviewed research reports
regarding the effectiveness of the Plazas Comunitarias program. 







Thank
you,



?



Janet



?



Janet Shing



Literacy Campaign for Monterey County
- Reading is Power, www.literacycampaignmc.org



Community
Foundation for Monterey
 County - Here
for Good, www.cfmco.org



(831)
375-9712 x123 



janet at cfmco.org



?






 





-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Mon May  5 10:24:23 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 10:24:23 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1297]  Student Self-Assessment
Message-ID: <011301c8aebb$b7b1cf60$0702a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi everyone, I hope this email finds you well.  The List has been pretty
quiet the past month or so - I've been extremely busy and perhaps you
all have as well.  I hope everyone is enjoying spring.
 
I have wanted for some time to ask you about student self-assessment.
Do you use this in your classroom or program?  What does it look like?
Are the students involved in developing their own assessments?  How does
this fit with other types of testing and assessment that go on in your
program?  What are the advantages and what are the challenges of
employing student self assessment?
 
Please let us know if student self assessment is something that you
incorporate and describe it for us.  If we get a bunch of examples, I
will collect these and post them for everyone's access.  
 
Thanks!!
 
Marie
 
 
Marie Cora
 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Mon May  5 10:30:38 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 10:30:38 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1298]  Subscriber Tips
Message-ID: <011801c8aebc$991c9110$0702a8c0@LITNOW>

Discussion List Tips
Here are some suggestions for maximizing your experience as a List
Member, both in terms of getting the most out of the content, as well as
minimizing the time and effort involved in following the Discussion
List.  In addition to the tips below, you should always feel free to
contact me with any questions or concerns, or if you need help:
marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
Posting to the List
Please include an email address in your signature line in at least your
first message so that subscribers can respond to your inquiry off-list
if they choose.
Please be sure that the Subject Line heading matches the content of your
message; many subscribers follow discussion threads via the Subject
Line, and often, the message content shifts as people converse, but the
Subject Line remains the same from the first posted message.  This makes
it more difficult to follow discussion threads.  Please remember to
check the Subject Line info and change it to appropriately reflect your
message content, if needed.
Consider whether your reply is best suited to send to only one person or
the whole group.
Managing Your Subscription
Digest Format
This format allows subscribers to receive Discussion List messages
"bundled" into one or two emails per day. The subject line will not be
topic-specific, so any replies to digest format often mean the subject
line will need adjusting before replying. Also, subscribers using digest
format do not receive the information that was posted right away.
Because of that, this option may or may not suit everyone's needs.
>From the Assessment Discussion List page:
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/Assessment
Scroll down to Unsubscribe and other options at the bottom and enter
your subscription email address.  
This takes you to a page where it asks you if you want to unsubscribe or
to log in using your password. Log in. (There is a button you can click
to have your password emailed to you if you've forgotten it.)
Once you've logged in, scroll down to where it reads "set digest mode".
Click this to "on", then scroll down further and click "submit my
changes."
Use the archives
You do not have to be subscribed to a List to use the archives, so if
you are interested in reading about certain topics, but don't want to be
a List Member, this option is open for you.  (See below for more
information on using the archives.)
Just hit delete!
This is when the Subject Line can be your best friend!  If the topic of
discussion just isn't up your alley, or you simply don't have the time
at the moment, the delete button is a good option.  No one is making you
be a subscriber so you should feel no guilt!  It's all your choice!
Often subscribers say that they just can't hit delete for fear of
missing something, but remember that all posts get logged automatically
in the archives and so when you *do* have the time or when that topic
area *does* interest you, you can go back and search for those posts in
the archives.
Using the Archives
To read full discussions, or search and read the archives, visit the
Assessment List Archives at:
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/Assessment.
The archives can be sorted by thread/subject/author.
In the right-hand toolbar:
Click on Search Archives; you can search just the Assessment archives or
all the List archives from here; search by thread, subject, or author.
Click on List Events to view information on upcoming, as well as past,
Discussion Topics.  
Click on List Help for the FAQ about using the Lists.
 
 
 
Marie Cora
 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Tue May  6 08:26:35 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 08:26:35 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1299]  Discussion Announcement
Message-ID: <02a601c8af74$6d80bdc0$0702a8c0@LITNOW>

Colleagues, 
 
Some of you may be interested in the following discussion on the Adult
English Language Learners Discussion List:
 
Assisting adult English language learners (or second language learners
in general) to increase their reading proficiency is one of the
perennial issues on this list and others. We will be focusing on this
topic specifically from May 12-16, 2008 when Heide Wrigley and a cadre
of Texas practitioners will share information, challenges, and outcomes
of a professional development and classroom project they have been
working on during the last year. 
 
For the full announcement and information, go to:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/englishlanguage/08reading.html
 
 To subscribe to the Adult English Language Learners discussion list,
please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/Englishlanguage
 
 
 
Marie Cora
 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
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From joyce_winters at owens.edu  Tue May  6 11:10:15 2008
From: joyce_winters at owens.edu (Joyce Winters)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 11:10:15 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1300] Re: Student Self-Assessment
In-Reply-To: <011301c8aebb$b7b1cf60$0702a8c0@LITNOW>
References: <011301c8aebb$b7b1cf60$0702a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <48203C96.1A23.00AE.0@owens.edu>

We use a form of student self-assessment in Ohio through the standards-based Ohio Portfolio System.  Each student has two folders:  one is an administrative folder containing sensitive, personal data including standardized tests;  the other is a student folder containing student work that demonstrates progress toward the student's goals.  Assessment is focused on evaluating how the student has progressed by comparing early work with later work to see changes over time.  Material included in this folder is chosen by the student using specific criteria and reviewed by the instructor. 
 
In a quick summary, the process begins with creating student work following the initial diagnostic testing.  Instructors rely upon the standards and diagnostic results to build the criteria for student work.  During a student conference, a checklist, rubric, or other form of scoring guide is given to the student to help the student assess his/her progress so that the material isn't just a collection of assignments.  The student reflects upon his/her work with guiding questions such as, "What does this work show about what I've learned and can do?" and "I will put this in my portfolio because it shows that I can..." The student then judges his/her work to determine what he/she needs to learn next to move closer to meeting the goal set during orientation.  During regularly scheduled conferences, the instructor also judges student work to determine what work should be assigned to extend the student's learning or how instruction should be changed to help the student meet the established goal.   
 
We've found this portfolio process to be enormously beneficial as it provides a structured opportunity for students to reflect upon their learning, their strengths and weaknesses and what adaptations are needed to help remove barriers.  Students are now more aware of why they are learning and how to apply knowledge to their lives, rather than just focusing upon "what do I need to know to get my GED?"
 
 
 
Joyce Winters
Professional Development Specialist
NWRC/Owens Community College
PO Box 10,000
Toledo, Ohio 43699
567-661-7675
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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Wed May  7 09:13:45 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 09:13:45 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1301] Re: Student Self-Assessment
In-Reply-To: <48203C96.1A23.00AE.0@owens.edu>
Message-ID: <047601c8b044$2e6e89c0$0702a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi Joyce,
 
Thanks so much for this, what a great process you have established!  
 
A couple questions for you - are the students involved in developing the
rubric at all?  And do they get to select pieces of work that they feel
best represent their abilities? Or is this a joint effort between
student and instructor?
 
Also, how do report to your funder?  Do you only report the standardized
test scores or do you also report on the student portfolios?
 
Finally, I see you are a professional development specialist - so I
assume that you focus on helping the teachers and other staff to learn
and improve their own abilities in working with the process.  How do you
generally bring the professional development to the staff on the student
self assessment piece?
 
Thanks!!
 
Marie
 
 
 
Marie Cora
 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Joyce Winters
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 11:10 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1300] Re: Student Self-Assessment
 
We use a form of student self-assessment in Ohio through the
standards-based Ohio Portfolio System.  Each student has two folders:
one is an administrative folder containing sensitive, personal data
including standardized tests;  the other is a student folder containing
student work that demonstrates progress toward the student's goals.
Assessment is focused on evaluating how the student has progressed by
comparing early work with later work to see changes over time.  Material
included in this folder is chosen by the student using specific criteria
and reviewed by the instructor. 
 
In a quick summary, the process begins with creating student work
following the initial diagnostic testing.  Instructors rely upon the
standards and diagnostic results to build the criteria for student work.
During a student conference, a checklist, rubric, or other form of
scoring guide is given to the student to help the student assess his/her
progress so that the material isn't just a collection of assignments.
The student reflects upon his/her work with guiding questions such as,
"What does this work show about what I've learned and can do?" and "I
will put this in my portfolio because it shows that I can..." The
student then judges his/her work to determine what he/she needs to learn
next to move closer to meeting the goal set during orientation.  During
regularly scheduled conferences, the instructor also judges student work
to determine what work should be assigned to extend the student's
learning or how instruction should be changed to help the student meet
the established goal.   
 
We've found this portfolio process to be enormously beneficial as it
provides a structured opportunity for students to reflect upon their
learning, their strengths and weaknesses and what adaptations are needed
to help remove barriers.  Students are now more aware of why they are
learning and how to apply knowledge to their lives, rather than just
focusing upon "what do I need to know to get my GED?"
 
 
 
Joyce Winters
Professional Development Specialist
NWRC/Owens Community College
PO Box 10,000
Toledo, Ohio 43699
567-661-7675
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From joyce_winters at owens.edu  Wed May  7 10:29:00 2008
From: joyce_winters at owens.edu (Joyce Winters)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 10:29:00 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1302]   Re: Student Self-Assessment
In-Reply-To: <047601c8b044$2e6e89c0$0702a8c0@LITNOW>
References: <48203C96.1A23.00AE.0@owens.edu>
	<047601c8b044$2e6e89c0$0702a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <4821846B.1A23.00AE.0@owens.edu>

Good questions, Marie!  Thanks for your interest.    I'll attempt to
further explain each one:
 
The students are not involved in developing rubrics or scoring guides.
The guides are developed by instructors since they are intrinsically
familiar with Ohio's Standards, Components & Benchmarks. These guides
are written based on the Standards in an effort to help students
understand--without intensive training--the "what, how, and why" of
their learning process.  Once the scoring guides are explained to
students, they provide a structure for students to assess their own
progress and areas of strength/weakness, as well as which instructional
strategies are helpful.
 
The portfolio process is a collaborative effort between the student and
teacher. The key is for the student to take responsibility for selecting
the pieces and to think about the choices. The students initially select
the work that is maintained in the portfolio.  At a minimum of every 90
days, the teacher and student conference to review the portfolio, and at
that point some material may be removed or additional material included.
 Short-term goals are revisited at that time as well, and the instructor
identifies the next steps for helping the student reach his/her goals. 
 
Ultimately, the purpose of the portfolio process is to promote student
ownership of learning and to increase student and teacher collaboration.
 Portfolios are an important part of assessment since they provide a map
of a student's accomplishments and progress toward goals, and they are a
required component in every ABLE program in Ohio. However, only
standardized tests can be used to measure completion of an educational
functioning level and standardized tests are the only scores reported to
the State ABLE office.  
 
Our professional development trainings are developed based upon State
policy and input from stakeholders.  I provide regional trainings on the
portfolio process throughout Ohio, and will visit a program if the
need/desire exists.  This particular training has a strong focus on the
student assessment piece, with role plays on conferencing and activities
where teachers sort out suitable material for a student portfolio.
Additionally, I'm in the process of putting our handbook and
presentation materials online.  Hopefully, I'll have that completed this
summer.
 
I hope this provides the clarification you wanted.  If not, I'm only an
email or phone call away.  I'm also available to bring the Portfolio
Assessment Process presentation to others (providing travel costs are
worked out with my director).
 
 
Joyce Winters
Professional Development Specialist
NWRC/Owens Community College
PO Box 10,000
Toledo, Ohio 43699
567-661-7675
joyce_winters at owens.edu

>>> "Marie Cora" <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> 5/7/2008 9:13 AM >>>

Hi Joyce,
 
Thanks so much for this, what a great process you have established!  
 
A couple questions for you ? are the students involved in developing
the rubric at all?  And do they get to select pieces of work that they
feel best represent their abilities? Or is this a joint effort between
student and instructor?
 
Also, how do report to your funder?  Do you only report the
standardized test scores or do you also report on the student
portfolios?
 
Finally, I see you are a professional development specialist ? so I
assume that you focus on helping the teachers and other staff to learn
and improve their own abilities in working with the process.  How do you
generally bring the professional development to the staff on the student
self assessment piece?
 
Thanks!!
 
Marie
 
 
 
Marie Cora
marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Joyce Winters
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 11:10 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1300] Re: Student Self-Assessment
 

We use a form of student self-assessment in Ohio through the
standards-based Ohio Portfolio System.  Each student has two folders: 
one is an administrative folder containing sensitive, personal data
including standardized tests;  the other is a student folder containing
student work that demonstrates progress toward the student's goals. 
Assessment is focused on evaluating how the student has progressed by
comparing early work with later work to see changes over time.  Material
included in this folder is chosen by the student using specific criteria
and reviewed by the instructor. 

 

In a quick summary, the process begins with creating student work
following the initial diagnostic testing.  Instructors rely upon the
standards and diagnostic results to build the criteria for student work.
 During a student conference, a checklist, rubric, or other form of
scoring guide is given to the student to help the student assess his/her
progress so that the material isn't just a collection of assignments. 
The student reflects upon his/her work with guiding questions such as,
"What does this work show about what I've learned and can do?" and "I
will put this in my portfolio because it shows that I can..." The
student then judges his/her work to determine what he/she needs to learn
next to move closer to meeting the goal set during orientation.  During
regularly scheduled conferences, the instructor also judges student work
to determine what work should be assigned to extend the student's
learning or how instruction should be changed to help the student meet
the established goal.   

 

We've found this portfolio process to be enormously beneficial as it
provides a structured opportunity for students to reflect upon their
learning, their strengths and weaknesses and what adaptations are needed
to help remove barriers.  Students are now more aware of why they are
learning and how to apply knowledge to their lives, rather than just
focusing upon "what do I need to know to get my GED?"

 

 

 

Joyce Winters

Professional Development Specialist

NWRC/Owens Community College

PO Box 10,000

Toledo, Ohio 43699

567-661-7675
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From Thomas.Suh at doe.virginia.gov  Wed May  7 11:13:47 2008
From: Thomas.Suh at doe.virginia.gov (Suh, Thomas (DOE))
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 11:13:47 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1303] Re: Student Self-Assessment
In-Reply-To: <4821846B.1A23.00AE.0@owens.edu>
Message-ID: <777DAD795F612046ADF93B679BC5CE0203E58165@HMS-EX2.cov.virginia.gov>

Very interesting Joyce - thanks for sharing this!

Just wondering, has the portfolio process translated into an increase in
documented student gains or increased academic persistence? 

Thanks.

Tom

 

Thomas Suh
Virginia Department of Education
(804) 786-8367 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Joyce Winters
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 10:29 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1302] Re: Student Self-Assessment

 

Good questions, Marie!  Thanks for your interest.    I'll attempt to
further explain each one:

 

The students are not involved in developing rubrics or scoring guides.
The guides are developed by instructors since they are intrinsically
familiar with Ohio's Standards, Components & Benchmarks. These guides
are written based on the Standards in an effort to help students
understand--without intensive training--the "what, how, and why" of
their learning process.  Once the scoring guides are explained to
students, they provide a structure for students to assess their own
progress and areas of strength/weakness, as well as which instructional
strategies are helpful.

 

The portfolio process is a collaborative effort between the student and
teacher. The key is for the student to take responsibility for selecting
the pieces and to think about the choices. The students initially select
the work that is maintained in the portfolio.  At a minimum of every 90
days, the teacher and student conference to review the portfolio, and at
that point some material may be removed or additional material included.
Short-term goals are revisited at that time as well, and the instructor
identifies the next steps for helping the student reach his/her goals. 

 

Ultimately, the purpose of the portfolio process is to promote student
ownership of learning and to increase student and teacher collaboration.
Portfolios are an important part of assessment since they provide a map
of a student's accomplishments and progress toward goals, and they are a
required component in every ABLE program in Ohio. However, only
standardized tests can be used to measure completion of an educational
functioning level and standardized tests are the only scores reported to
the State ABLE office.  

 

Our professional development trainings are developed based upon State
policy and input from stakeholders.  I provide regional trainings on the
portfolio process throughout Ohio, and will visit a program if the
need/desire exists.  This particular training has a strong focus on the
student assessment piece, with role plays on conferencing and activities
where teachers sort out suitable material for a student portfolio.
Additionally, I'm in the process of putting our handbook and
presentation materials online.  Hopefully, I'll have that completed this
summer.

 

I hope this provides the clarification you wanted.  If not, I'm only an
email or phone call away.  I'm also available to bring the Portfolio
Assessment Process presentation to others (providing travel costs are
worked out with my director).

 

 

Joyce Winters

Professional Development Specialist

NWRC/Owens Community College

PO Box 10,000

Toledo, Ohio 43699

567-661-7675

joyce_winters at owens.edu


>>> "Marie Cora" <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> 5/7/2008 9:13 AM >>>

Hi Joyce,

 

Thanks so much for this, what a great process you have established!  

 

A couple questions for you - are the students involved in developing the
rubric at all?  And do they get to select pieces of work that they feel
best represent their abilities? Or is this a joint effort between
student and instructor?

 

Also, how do report to your funder?  Do you only report the standardized
test scores or do you also report on the student portfolios?

 

Finally, I see you are a professional development specialist - so I
assume that you focus on helping the teachers and other staff to learn
and improve their own abilities in working with the process.  How do you
generally bring the professional development to the staff on the student
self assessment piece?

 

Thanks!!

 

Marie

 

 

 

Marie Cora

marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> 

NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator

http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

 

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Joyce Winters
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 11:10 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1300] Re: Student Self-Assessment

 

We use a form of student self-assessment in Ohio through the
standards-based Ohio Portfolio System.  Each student has two folders:
one is an administrative folder containing sensitive, personal data
including standardized tests;  the other is a student folder containing
student work that demonstrates progress toward the student's goals.
Assessment is focused on evaluating how the student has progressed by
comparing early work with later work to see changes over time.  Material
included in this folder is chosen by the student using specific criteria
and reviewed by the instructor. 

 

In a quick summary, the process begins with creating student work
following the initial diagnostic testing.  Instructors rely upon the
standards and diagnostic results to build the criteria for student work.
During a student conference, a checklist, rubric, or other form of
scoring guide is given to the student to help the student assess his/her
progress so that the material isn't just a collection of assignments.
The student reflects upon his/her work with guiding questions such as,
"What does this work show about what I've learned and can do?" and "I
will put this in my portfolio because it shows that I can..." The
student then judges his/her work to determine what he/she needs to learn
next to move closer to meeting the goal set during orientation.  During
regularly scheduled conferences, the instructor also judges student work
to determine what work should be assigned to extend the student's
learning or how instruction should be changed to help the student meet
the established goal.   

 

We've found this portfolio process to be enormously beneficial as it
provides a structured opportunity for students to reflect upon their
learning, their strengths and weaknesses and what adaptations are needed
to help remove barriers.  Students are now more aware of why they are
learning and how to apply knowledge to their lives, rather than just
focusing upon "what do I need to know to get my GED?"

 

 

 

Joyce Winters

Professional Development Specialist

NWRC/Owens Community College

PO Box 10,000

Toledo, Ohio 43699

567-661-7675

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From joyce_winters at owens.edu  Wed May  7 11:55:46 2008
From: joyce_winters at owens.edu (Joyce Winters)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 11:55:46 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1304]   Re: Student Self-Assessment
In-Reply-To: <777DAD795F612046ADF93B679BC5CE0203E58165@HMS-EX2.cov.virginia.gov>
References: <4821846B.1A23.00AE.0@owens.edu>
	<777DAD795F612046ADF93B679BC5CE0203E58165@HMS-EX2.cov.virginia.gov>
Message-ID: <482198C1.1A23.00AE.0@owens.edu>

Thanks, Thomas.
Hmmmmm, I know only from verbal feedback from teachers that there is
clearly an increase in both documented student gains and academic
persistence.  However, that doesn't give us any reliable data.  Let me
check with my Ohio colleagues and see if any study has been conducted in
that vein.  I'll be in touch!
Joyce


>>> "Suh, Thomas (DOE)" <Thomas.Suh at doe.virginia.gov> 5/7/2008 11:13 AM
>>>

Very interesting Joyce ? thanks for sharing this!
Just wondering, has the portfolio process translated into an increase
in documented student gains or increased academic persistence? 
Thanks.
Tom
 

Thomas Suh
Virginia Department of Education
(804) 786-8367 


From:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Joyce Winters
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 10:29 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1302] Re: Student Self-Assessment

 

Good questions, Marie!  Thanks for your interest.    I'll attempt to
further explain each one:

 

The students are not involved in developing rubrics or scoring guides.
The guides are developed by instructors since they are intrinsically
familiar with Ohio's Standards, Components & Benchmarks. These guides
are written based on the Standards in an effort to help students
understand--without intensive training--the "what, how, and why" of
their learning process.  Once the scoring guides are explained to
students, they provide a structure for students to assess their own
progress and areas of strength/weakness, as well as which instructional
strategies are helpful.

 

The portfolio process is a collaborative effort between the student and
teacher. The key is for the student to take responsibility for selecting
the pieces and to think about the choices. The students initially select
the work that is maintained in the portfolio.  At a minimum of every 90
days, the teacher and student conference to review the portfolio, and at
that point some material may be removed or additional material included.
 Short-term goals are revisited at that time as well, and the instructor
identifies the next steps for helping the student reach his/her goals. 

 

Ultimately, the purpose of the portfolio process is to promote student
ownership of learning and to increase student and teacher collaboration.
 Portfolios are an important part of assessment since they provide a map
of a student's accomplishments and progress toward goals, and they are a
required component in every ABLE program in Ohio. However, only
standardized tests can be used to measure completion of an educational
functioning level and standardized tests are the only scores reported to
the State ABLE office.  

 

Our professional development trainings are developed based upon State
policy and input from stakeholders.  I provide regional trainings on the
portfolio process throughout Ohio, and will visit a program if the
need/desire exists.  This particular training has a strong focus on the
student assessment piece, with role plays on conferencing and activities
where teachers sort out suitable material for a student portfolio.
Additionally, I'm in the process of putting our handbook and
presentation materials online.  Hopefully, I'll have that completed this
summer.

 

I hope this provides the clarification you wanted.  If not, I'm only an
email or phone call away.  I'm also available to bring the Portfolio
Assessment Process presentation to others (providing travel costs are
worked out with my director).

 

 

Joyce Winters

Professional Development Specialist

NWRC/Owens Community College

PO Box10,000

Toledo, Ohio 43699

567-661-7675

joyce_winters at owens.edu


>>> "Marie Cora" <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> 5/7/2008 9:13 AM >>>

Hi Joyce,
 
Thanks so much for this, what a great process you have established!  
 
A couple questions for you ? are the students involved in developing
the rubric at all?  And do they get to select pieces of work that they
feel best represent their abilities? Or is this a joint effort between
student and instructor?
 
Also, how do report to your funder?  Do you only report the
standardized test scores or do you also report on the student
portfolios?
 
Finally, I see you are a professional development specialist ? so I
assume that you focus on helping the teachers and other staff to learn
and improve their own abilities in working with the process.  How do you
generally bring the professional development to the staff on the student
self assessment piece?
 
Thanks!!
 
Marie
 
 
 
Marie Cora
marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Joyce Winters
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 11:10 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1300] Re: Student Self-Assessment
 

We use a form of student self-assessment in Ohio through the
standards-based Ohio Portfolio System.  Each student has two folders: 
one is an administrative folder containing sensitive, personal data
including standardized tests;  the other is a student folder containing
student work that demonstrates progress toward the student's goals. 
Assessment is focused on evaluating how the student has progressed by
comparing early work with later work to see changes over time.  Material
included in this folder is chosen by the student using specific criteria
and reviewed by the instructor. 

 

In a quick summary, the process begins with creating student work
following the initial diagnostic testing.  Instructors rely upon the
standards and diagnostic results to build the criteria for student work.
 During a student conference, a checklist, rubric, or other form of
scoring guide is given to the student to help the student assess his/her
progress so that the material isn't just a collection of assignments. 
The student reflects upon his/her work with guiding questions such as,
"What does this work show about what I've learned and can do?" and "I
will put this in my portfolio because it shows that I can..." The
student then judges his/her work to determine what he/she needs to learn
next to move closer to meeting the goal set during orientation.  During
regularly scheduled conferences, the instructor also judges student work
to determine what work should be assigned to extend the student's
learning or how instruction should be changed to help the student meet
the established goal.   

 

We've found this portfolio process to be enormously beneficial as it
provides a structured opportunity for students to reflect upon their
learning, their strengths and weaknesses and what adaptations are needed
to help remove barriers.  Students are now more aware of why they are
learning and how to apply knowledge to their lives, rather than just
focusing upon "what do I need to know to get my GED?"

 

 

 

Joyce Winters

Professional Development Specialist

NWRC/Owens Community College

PO Box10,000

Toledo, Ohio 43699

567-661-7675
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From MMaralit at NIFL.gov  Thu May  8 07:44:11 2008
From: MMaralit at NIFL.gov (Maralit, Mary Jo)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 07:44:11 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1305]  Free NAAL data training seminar
Message-ID: <4062487BDB6029428A763CAEF4E1FE5B1B59276B@wdcrobe2m03.ed.gov>

Forwarded Message from National Center for Education Statistics (NCES): 

May 14th is the registration deadline for the upcoming free NAAL data
training seminar that starts on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 through Friday,
June 27, 2008, in Washington, DC. Only a few people have signed up and we
still have capacity to accept between 10-12 more people. 

The overall goal of the seminar is to equip participants with knowledge and
skills on the use of the National Assessment of Adult Literacy (NAAL) data
files and tools for substantive research as well as policy analyses. Topics
covered in the seminar include instruction on how to analyze NAAL data, with
hands-on practice, and help in designing and carrying out a research study. 

NAAL data training seminar training is open to everyone including
researchers and planners, education practitioners, policymakers, and
association members, as well as faculty and advanced graduate students from
colleges and universities nationwide. There are no registration fees and
NCES is paying for the travel and lodging cost. 

I encourage everyone to go to the following site to learn more about the
training and if you are interested, use the link within the site to
register. <http://ies.ed.gov/whatsnew/conferences/?id=314&cid=2> 

Please don't hesitate to contact me with any questions you may have.
Jaleh Behroozi Soroui
jsoroui at air.org <mailto:jsoroui at air.org>
202/403-6958



From MMaralit at NIFL.gov  Thu May  8 14:35:45 2008
From: MMaralit at NIFL.gov (Maralit, Mary Jo)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 14:35:45 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1306]  Notice from the National Institute for Literacy
References: <4062487BDB6029428A763CAEF4E1FE5B1B59276B@wdcrobe2m03.ed.gov>
Message-ID: <4062487BDB6029428A763CAEF4E1FE5B153835DE@wdcrobe2m03.ed.gov>

Dear List subscribers,

I just wanted to send out a little note of apology for emails that were sent
out from our development server.  

We are currently re-configuring the server, which inadvertently sent out
emails to subscribers within the past 2 hours.  Consequently, you may have
received an email from mailman-owner at dev.nifl.gov.  Please disregard those
emails and accept my sincere apologies.  

As subscribers, we understand the volume of mail that you receive daily and
we will take steps to avoid instances like this in the future.  

If you have any questions, please let me know.  I can be reached at
mmaralit at nifl.gov.  

Sincerely,

Jo Maralit
National Institute for Literacy
mmaralit at nifl.gov








From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Fri May  9 09:05:32 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 09:05:32 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1307]  Another student self assessment question
Message-ID: <07cb01c8b1d5$5d56d020$0702a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi all,
 
Does anyone use student self-assessment in any way to report to funders?

 
Thanks,
 
Marie
 
Marie Cora
 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
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From Tina_Luffman at yc.edu  Sun May 11 23:48:45 2008
From: Tina_Luffman at yc.edu (Tina_Luffman at yc.edu)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 20:48:45 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1308] Re: Another student self assessment question
In-Reply-To: <07cb01c8b1d5$5d56d020$0702a8c0@LITNOW>
References: <07cb01c8b1d5$5d56d020$0702a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <OFEF45EFF0.AA7CCD1A-ON07257447.0014F18D-07257447.0014F18E@yc.edu>

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From kbeall at onlyinternet.net  Mon May 12 15:07:24 2008
From: kbeall at onlyinternet.net (Kaye Beall)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 15:07:24 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1309] Call for Presenters for Effective Transitions
	Conference 2008
Message-ID: <00ba01c8b463$71558090$020ba8c0@D14J7YD1>

Dear Colleagues, 

The National College Transition Network at World Education invites you to
submit a proposal to present at its conference on Effective Transitions in
Adult Education to be held on November 17-18, 2008 in Providence, RI. 

If you wish to submit a proposal, please visit
<http://collegetransition.org/callforpresenters08.html>
http://collegetransition.org/callforpresenters08.html  to complete and
submit the online form. You will receive an email from NCTN confirming the
receipt of your proposal within 48 hours of submission. Please click on the
above link for more details about the proposal submission process. The
submission deadline is May 30, 2008.

Please forward widely to colleagues and others who may be interested and
feel free to email me at  <mailto:psharma at worlded.org> psharma at worlded.org
or call me at (617) 385-3788 if you have any further questions. 

Regards,

Priyanka Sharma

*******************

 

 

Kaye Beall

Project Director

World Education

6760 West Street

Linn Grove, IN 46711

765-717-3942

kaye_beall at worlded.org

www.worlded.org

 

 

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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Tue May 13 07:46:39 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 07:46:39 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1310] Re: Project IDEAL
In-Reply-To: <OFEF45EFF0.AA7CCD1A-ON07257447.0014F18D-07257447.0014F18E@yc.edu>
Message-ID: <0d9901c8b4ef$02040360$0702a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi Tina,
 
Thanks for this.  Yes, I am aware that Project IDEAL does have some self
assessments which are quite good I hear.  Can anyone else comment on
Project IDEAL and the self assessments?  What do students think of them,
does anyone have info/feedback on this?
 
Thanks,
 
Marie
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 11:49 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1308] Re: Another student self assessment question
 
Hi Marie,
 
At Yavapai College our students do self assessments that give the
college feedback on how well we are doing. The college sends our classes
its own form to gather information on how effective the class as well as
the teaching is for each. Project ADEAL also has two self assessments,
one to do at orientation and one at the end of the semester to answer
research questions on online GED instruction. Yavapai College is a
funder for us since they pay our director and transitions advisor
salaries and also provide us with our classroom space and free
technological support including software, hardware, and ITS. I am not
sure if Project IDEAL is a funder of our GED online program here in
Arizona, or if they are more of a research & support organization.
 
Happy Mother's Day everyone!
 
Thanks,
 
Tina
Tina Luffman
Coordinator, Developmental Education
Verde Valley Campus
928-634-6544
tina_luffman at yc.edu
 
-----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
To: "'The Assessment Discussion List'" <assessment at nifl.gov>
From: "Marie Cora" <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
Date: 05/09/2008 06:05AM
Subject: [Assessment 1307] Another student self assessment question
Hi all, 
 
Does anyone use student self-assessment in any way to report to funders
?   
 
Thanks, 
 
Marie 
 
Marie Cora 
 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com 
NIFL Assessment Di scussion List Moderator 
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment 
  
 
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu
 
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From Ingrid.RodrickBeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov  Wed May 14 12:24:23 2008
From: Ingrid.RodrickBeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov (Rodrick Beiler, Ingrid)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 12:24:23 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1311]  CASAS vs. BEST
Message-ID: <A7148849DCAEBF49AC570F46BD76F6C501743FD8@MCG-EXB04.mcgov.org>

Hi everyone

I serve as the coordinator for an adult ESOL program in Montgomery
County, MD. We offer classes mostly at the beginner level, with some
classes at literacy and intermediate levels as well. I am fairly new to
this field and am trying to determine the comparative usefulness of
CASAS and BEST for assessment of our program. Can anyone comment on
how/why their organizations might have chosen one over the other?

In case it is helpful for understanding my organization's needs, here is
some more background information:
- We serve about 275-300 learners per semester.
- Many of our learners have a very low educational level.
- Pre- and post-tests are administered by our instructors during the
first and last classes of the semester.
- Placement tests are administered by coordinators at each of our sites
in one-on-one interviews.
- We provide 36-48 instructional hours per semester. (I wonder if this
precludes our using the BEST.)
- Most of our funding comes from two sources (government and a private
funder).
- The cost of standardized assessments is an important factor to us.

Your advice is much appreciated.

Thanks,
Ingrid Rodrick Beiler

Ingrid Rodrick Beiler
ESOL Coordinator
Linkages to Learning
51 Monroe Street, Suite 1700
Rockville, MD 20850
Phone: (240) 777-1110
Fax: (240) 777-1111
ingrid.rodrickbeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov

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From Kay.Peralta at scott.kyschools.us  Wed May 14 15:55:11 2008
From: Kay.Peralta at scott.kyschools.us (Peralta, Kay)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 15:55:11 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1312] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
In-Reply-To: <A7148849DCAEBF49AC570F46BD76F6C501743FD8@MCG-EXB04.mcgov.org>
References: <A7148849DCAEBF49AC570F46BD76F6C501743FD8@MCG-EXB04.mcgov.org>
Message-ID: <B33902F6E065B34F92DF2070A26714CF0771468F@ED525X1.scott.ketsds.net>

I am becoming a trainer for the State of Kentucky in BEST Plus and BEST
Literacy.  Our program also has CASAS.  What is the advantage of one
over the other?????  Well, BEST Plus is simple and quick and really
focused on the oral fluency of an ELL student.  CASAS can be short if
you give a "locater", but it really focuses on the reading and writing
area of an ELL students.  The BEST Literacy can do this as well, but it
is very narrowly focused with only allowing for the basic skills to be
tested.  Also, an ELL student could basically test out of BEST Literacy,
but still need services in ESL.  Depending on the needs of your program,
there are benefits of all of these tests.  For larger programs, you may
want to focus on the CASAS.  For smaller programs who serve very limited
ELL students, the BEST Plus is simple and quick and accurate as far as
the oral skills.  You can look at the use of BEST Plus and BEST Literacy
on the CAL website.

 

 

Kay Peralta

Community Education Director

Center for Lifelong Learning

332 Champion Way

Georgetown, KY  40324

502-570-8984

kay.peralta at scott.kyschools.us

http://tinyurl.com/2lfnhw

 

The Scott County Center for Lifelong Learning is committed to providing
educational opportunities for individuals and families to achieve
success and build a strong community.

 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Rodrick Beiler, Ingrid
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 12:24 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1311] CASAS vs. BEST

 

Hi everyone 

I serve as the coordinator for an adult ESOL program in Montgomery
County, MD. We offer classes mostly at the beginner level, with some
classes at literacy and intermediate levels as well. I am fairly new to
this field and am trying to determine the comparative usefulness of
CASAS and BEST for assessment of our program. Can anyone comment on
how/why their organizations might have chosen one over the other?

In case it is helpful for understanding my organization's needs, here is
some more background information: 
- We serve about 275-300 learners per semester. 
- Many of our learners have a very low educational level. 
- Pre- and post-tests are administered by our instructors during the
first and last classes of the semester. 
- Placement tests are administered by coordinators at each of our sites
in one-on-one interviews. 
- We provide 36-48 instructional hours per semester. (I wonder if this
precludes our using the BEST.) 
- Most of our funding comes from two sources (government and a private
funder). 
- The cost of standardized assessments is an important factor to us. 

Your advice is much appreciated. 

Thanks, 
Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 

Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 
ESOL Coordinator 
Linkages to Learning 
51 Monroe Street, Suite 1700 
Rockville, MD 20850 
Phone: (240) 777-1110 
Fax: (240) 777-1111 
ingrid.rodrickbeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov 

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From atyskiewicz at crec.org  Thu May 15 08:37:00 2008
From: atyskiewicz at crec.org (Tyskiewicz, Andy)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 08:37:00 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1313] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
In-Reply-To: <B33902F6E065B34F92DF2070A26714CF0771468F@ED525X1.scott.ketsds.net>
Message-ID: <2E4115D033189841AF7BAF1768828B060165CA23@crecmail.crec.org>

The CASAS oral and listening tests might be of some value. Remember, the
chief purpose of CASAS is progress over time. Assessments, of course,
are constructed for different purposes.

 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Peralta, Kay
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 3:55 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1312] Re: CASAS vs. BEST

 

I am becoming a trainer for the State of Kentucky in BEST Plus and BEST
Literacy.  Our program also has CASAS.  What is the advantage of one
over the other?????  Well, BEST Plus is simple and quick and really
focused on the oral fluency of an ELL student.  CASAS can be short if
you give a "locater", but it really focuses on the reading and writing
area of an ELL students.  The BEST Literacy can do this as well, but it
is very narrowly focused with only allowing for the basic skills to be
tested.  Also, an ELL student could basically test out of BEST Literacy,
but still need services in ESL.  Depending on the needs of your program,
there are benefits of all of these tests.  For larger programs, you may
want to focus on the CASAS.  For smaller programs who serve very limited
ELL students, the BEST Plus is simple and quick and accurate as far as
the oral skills.  You can look at the use of BEST Plus and BEST Literacy
on the CAL website.

 

 

Kay Peralta

Community Education Director

Center for Lifelong Learning

332 Champion Way

Georgetown, KY  40324

502-570-8984

kay.peralta at scott.kyschools.us

http://tinyurl.com/2lfnhw

 

The Scott County Center for Lifelong Learning is committed to providing
educational opportunities for individuals and families to achieve
success and build a strong community.

 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Rodrick Beiler, Ingrid
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 12:24 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1311] CASAS vs. BEST

 

Hi everyone 

I serve as the coordinator for an adult ESOL program in Montgomery
County, MD. We offer classes mostly at the beginner level, with some
classes at literacy and intermediate levels as well. I am fairly new to
this field and am trying to determine the comparative usefulness of
CASAS and BEST for assessment of our program. Can anyone comment on
how/why their organizations might have chosen one over the other?

In case it is helpful for understanding my organization's needs, here is
some more background information: 
- We serve about 275-300 learners per semester. 
- Many of our learners have a very low educational level. 
- Pre- and post-tests are administered by our instructors during the
first and last classes of the semester. 
- Placement tests are administered by coordinators at each of our sites
in one-on-one interviews. 
- We provide 36-48 instructional hours per semester. (I wonder if this
precludes our using the BEST.) 
- Most of our funding comes from two sources (government and a private
funder). 
- The cost of standardized assessments is an important factor to us. 

Your advice is much appreciated. 

Thanks, 
Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 

Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 
ESOL Coordinator 
Linkages to Learning 
51 Monroe Street, Suite 1700 
Rockville, MD 20850 
Phone: (240) 777-1110 
Fax: (240) 777-1111 
ingrid.rodrickbeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov 


    The documents accompanying this fax or e-mail transmission, including any attachments, are for the sole use of the intended recipients and MAY contain confidential health or other information that is legally privileged.  The authorized recipient of this information is prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party unless required to do so by law or regulation and is required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled.

If you are NOT the intended recipient you are hereby notified that ANY disclosure, copying, distribution or action taken in reliance on the contents of these documents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information via facsimile in error, please notify the sender immediately and arrange for the return or destruction of these documents. If information is received via e-mail and you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by e-mail immediately and delete/destroy both the original and the reply e-mail message.



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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Thu May 15 13:07:00 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 13:07:00 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1314]  Assessment opportunity
Message-ID: <035301c8b6ae$17866eb0$0702a8c0@LITNOW>

Colleagues:  the following post is from Jane Greiner, Professional
Development Coordinator at ProLiteracy America.  
Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
***********************************
Do you ever wonder how assessing students makes you a better teacher? If
your answer is "yes," you're not alone. With an understanding of adult
educators' assessment questions and concerns in mind, ProLiteracy and
World Education have developed a series of four online courses for
teachers that focus on student assessment as part of effective adult
education. 
Two of these courses open in June: 
*       NEW COURSE! Fundamentals of Assessment (June 2 - June 16) 
Your guide to basic concepts in student assessment - learn how to use
standardized assessments effectively and develop better in-class
assessments.
*       NEW COURSE! Assessments Developed by Teachers and Students (June
16 - July 17) 
Expand your assessment toolkit! Learn about tools to check day-to-day
student progress, dynamic forms of assessment, and how to involve your
students in assessment design. 
These courses combine top-quality content on student assessment in adult
education and literacy with an easy-to-use online format. In these
facilitated courses you'll explore assessment concepts and strategies
in-depth through online activities, readings, and discussion boards, all
with an expert facilitator and adult education colleagues across the
country. 
REGISTER NOW! 
Access full course descriptions and registration information at
http://professionalstudiesae.org
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iesae.org> , under the heading Student Assessment. Participation is
limited, so please register early! Questions? Call 315-422-9121 ext.
283, or e-mail prodev at proliteracy.org
  
MEMBERSHIP DISCOUNT 
ProLiteracy members receive a 15% discount on all professional
development courses! For more information, visit
www.proliteracy.org/proliteracy_america/membership
  
Jane Greiner 
Professional Development Coordinator 
ProLiteracy 
1320 Jamesville Avenue 
Syracuse, NY 13210 
315-422-9121 ext. 283 
315-422-6369 fax 
www.proliteracy.org 
jgreiner at proliteracy.org 
Learn more about ProLiteracy's Professional Development at
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For more information or to join, please visit
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 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
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From mjjerdems at yahoo.com  Fri May 16 07:34:28 2008
From: mjjerdems at yahoo.com (Mary Jane Jerde)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 04:34:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Assessment 1314] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
In-Reply-To: <A7148849DCAEBF49AC570F46BD76F6C501743FD8@MCG-EXB04.mcgov.org>
Message-ID: <777097.55944.qm@web54008.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

The BEST is great for assessing the learner's production of English. Its additional pluses are that there are not test forms that learners can learn it identify and recall easily; the test questions become harder or easier depending on how the learner's responses are scored, which mitigates differences between assessors; and it would be better able to identify small progress than CASAS forms. 

The one major downside is that it takes time and more time as the learners progress. A large program simply cannot afford to put the hours into testing that BEST Plus requires.

I've used both CASAS and BEST Plus in smaller programs because one instrument cannot give a full picture on a learner (Assessment 101), and it maximizes the chance to show improvement at post-test. 

Good luck,

Mary Jane Jerde
Howard Community College

"Rodrick Beiler, Ingrid" <Ingrid.RodrickBeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov> wrote:     CASAS vs. BEST     Hi everyone 
  I serve as the coordinator for an adult ESOL program in Montgomery County, MD. We offer classes mostly at the beginner level, with some classes at literacy and intermediate levels as well. I am fairly new to this field and am trying to determine the comparative usefulness of CASAS and BEST for assessment of our program. Can anyone comment on how/why their organizations might have chosen one over the other?
  In case it is helpful for understanding my organization's needs, here is some more background information:  
- We serve about 275-300 learners per semester.  
- Many of our learners have a very low educational level.  
- Pre- and post-tests are administered by our instructors during the first and last classes of the semester.  
- Placement tests are administered by coordinators at each of our sites in one-on-one interviews.  
- We provide 36-48 instructional hours per semester. (I wonder if this precludes our using the BEST.)  
- Most of our funding comes from two sources (government and a private funder).  
- The cost of standardized assessments is an important factor to us. 
  Your advice is much appreciated. 
  Thanks,  
Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 
  Ingrid Rodrick Beiler  
ESOL Coordinator  
Linkages to Learning  
51 Monroe Street, Suite 1700  
Rockville, MD 20850  
Phone: (240) 777-1110  
Fax: (240) 777-1111  
ingrid.rodrickbeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov 
  -------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to mjjerdems at yahoo.com


       
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From aberryesq at hotmail.co.uk  Fri May 16 08:34:21 2008
From: aberryesq at hotmail.co.uk (Anthony Berry)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 13:34:21 +0100
Subject: [Assessment 1315] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
In-Reply-To: <777097.55944.qm@web54008.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <A7148849DCAEBF49AC570F46BD76F6C501743FD8@MCG-EXB04.mcgov.org>
	<777097.55944.qm@web54008.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY143-W5348AB0106B08D48398FF3EAC80@phx.gbl>


Could someone please tell me how I an have sight of BEST. I have been looking for an adaptive, normative, diagnostic test for ages and this seems as though it might fit the bill.
 
What flavour of English is it? Yes, you can see that I am of the Queen's English brigade!
 
Thanks for any help - btw this would be for research purposes not productive use.
 
Anthony Berry


Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 04:34:28 -0700From: mjjerdems at yahoo.comTo: assessment at nifl.govSubject: [Assessment 1314] Re: CASAS vs. BESTThe BEST is great for assessing the learner's production of English. Its additional pluses are that there are not test forms that learners can learn it identify and recall easily; the test questions become harder or easier depending on how the learner's responses are scored, which mitigates differences between assessors; and it would be better able to identify small progress than CASAS forms. The one major downside is that it takes time and more time as the learners progress. A large program simply cannot afford to put the hours into testing that BEST Plus requires.I've used both CASAS and BEST Plus in smaller programs because one instrument cannot give a full picture on a learner (Assessment 101), and it maximizes the chance to show improvement at post-test. Good luck,Mary Jane JerdeHoward Community College"Rodrick Beiler, Ingrid" <Ingrid.RodrickBeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov> wrote: 

Hi everyone 
I serve as the coordinator for an adult ESOL program in Montgomery County, MD. We offer classes mostly at the beginner level, with some classes at literacy and intermediate levels as well. I am fairly new to this field and am trying to determine the comparative usefulness of CASAS and BEST for assessment of our program. Can anyone comment on how/why their organizations might have chosen one over the other?
In case it is helpful for understanding my organization's needs, here is some more background information: - We serve about 275-300 learners per semester. - Many of our learners have a very low educational level. - Pre- and post-tests are administered by our instructors during the first and last classes of the semester. - Placement tests are administered by coordinators at each of our sites in one-on-one interviews. - We provide 36-48 instructional hours per semester. (I wonder if this precludes our using the BEST.) - Most of our funding comes from two sources (government and a private funder). - The cost of standardized assessments is an important factor to us. 
Your advice is much appreciated. 
Thanks, Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 
Ingrid Rodrick Beiler ESOL Coordinator Linkages to Learning 51 Monroe Street, Suite 1700 Rockville, MD 20850 Phone: (240) 777-1110 Fax: (240) 777-1111 ingrid.rodrickbeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov -------------------------------National Institute for LiteracyAssessment mailing listAssessment at nifl.govTo unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessmentEmail delivered to mjjerdems at yahoo.com

_________________________________________________________________
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From bwoerner at cal.org  Fri May 16 13:27:13 2008
From: bwoerner at cal.org (Bryan Woerner)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 13:27:13 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1316] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
In-Reply-To: <A7148849DCAEBF49AC570F46BD76F6C501743FD8@MCG-EXB04.mcgov.org>
Message-ID: <7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F01839746@MAIL.cal.local>

Hello everyone,
 
Ingrid raises some good points to consider when choosing an assessment.
What are the needs and goals of your program? What are the needs and
goals of your students? For what purpose are you testing? What resources
do you have available?
 
If you would like more information about the adult ESL assessments
available from CAL, please visit our websites:
 
For BEST Plus, visit www.best-plus.net; for BEST Literacy, visit
http://www.cal.org/topics/ta/bestliteracy.html.
 
In regards to Ingrid's point about instructional hours, CAL recommends a
minimum of 60 instructional hours between pre- and posttesting to show
progress when using our assessments. In addition, we have also published
the results from our level gains study involving BEST Plus and the
National Reporting System (NRS) ESL Functioning Levels. It is available
free at http://www.cal.org/resources/digest/levelgain.html
<http://www.cal.org/resources/digest/levelgain.html> . For more
information about the NRS, please visit www.nrsweb.org. 
 
If you have any further questions, we will be happy to talk to you and
provide more information off line. Please contact us at AEA at cal.org or
by toll free by phone at 866-845-2378.
 
Bryan Woerner
Adult ESL Assessments
Center for Applied Linguistics
 

 
________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Rodrick Beiler, Ingrid
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 12:24 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1311] CASAS vs. BEST



Hi everyone 

I serve as the coordinator for an adult ESOL program in Montgomery
County, MD. We offer classes mostly at the beginner level, with some
classes at literacy and intermediate levels as well. I am fairly new to
this field and am trying to determine the comparative usefulness of
CASAS and BEST for assessment of our program. Can anyone comment on
how/why their organizations might have chosen one over the other?

In case it is helpful for understanding my organization's needs, here is
some more background information: 
- We serve about 275-300 learners per semester. 
- Many of our learners have a very low educational level. 
- Pre- and post-tests are administered by our instructors during the
first and last classes of the semester. 
- Placement tests are administered by coordinators at each of our sites
in one-on-one interviews. 
- We provide 36-48 instructional hours per semester. (I wonder if this
precludes our using the BEST.) 
- Most of our funding comes from two sources (government and a private
funder). 
- The cost of standardized assessments is an important factor to us. 

Your advice is much appreciated. 

Thanks, 
Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 

Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 
ESOL Coordinator 
Linkages to Learning 
51 Monroe Street, Suite 1700 
Rockville, MD 20850 
Phone: (240) 777-1110 
Fax: (240) 777-1111 
ingrid.rodrickbeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov 

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From bwoerner at cal.org  Fri May 16 14:34:51 2008
From: bwoerner at cal.org (Bryan Woerner)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 14:34:51 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1317] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
In-Reply-To: <BAY143-W5348AB0106B08D48398FF3EAC80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F01839749@MAIL.cal.local>

Hello Anthony,
 
BEST Plus was designed for use with adult English language learners in
the United States.
 
Bryan
Adult ESL Assessments
Center for Applied Linguistics

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Anthony Berry
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 8:34 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1315] Re: CASAS vs. BEST


Could someone please tell me how I an have sight of BEST. I have been
looking for an adaptive, normative, diagnostic test for ages and this
seems as though it might fit the bill.
 
What flavour of English is it? Yes, you can see that I am of the Queen's
English brigade!
 
Thanks for any help - btw this would be for research purposes not
productive use.
 
Anthony Berry




________________________________

	Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 04:34:28 -0700
	From: mjjerdems at yahoo.com
	To: assessment at nifl.gov
	Subject: [Assessment 1314] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
	
	The BEST is great for assessing the learner's production of
English. Its additional pluses are that there are not test forms that
learners can learn it identify and recall easily; the test questions
become harder or easier depending on how the learner's responses are
scored, which mitigates differences between assessors; and it would be
better able to identify small progress than CASAS forms. 
	
	The one major downside is that it takes time and more time as
the learners progress. A large program simply cannot afford to put the
hours into testing that BEST Plus requires.
	
	I've used both CASAS and BEST Plus in smaller programs because
one instrument cannot give a full picture on a learner (Assessment 101),
and it maximizes the chance to show improvement at post-test. 
	
	Good luck,
	
	Mary Jane Jerde
	Howard Community College
	
	"Rodrick Beiler, Ingrid"
<Ingrid.RodrickBeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov> wrote: 

		Hi everyone 
		I serve as the coordinator for an adult ESOL program in
Montgomery County, MD. We offer classes mostly at the beginner level,
with some classes at literacy and intermediate levels as well. I am
fairly new to this field and am trying to determine the comparative
usefulness of CASAS and BEST for assessment of our program. Can anyone
comment on how/why their organizations might have chosen one over the
other?
		In case it is helpful for understanding my
organization's needs, here is some more background information: 
		- We serve about 275-300 learners per semester. 
		- Many of our learners have a very low educational
level. 
		- Pre- and post-tests are administered by our
instructors during the first and last classes of the semester. 
		- Placement tests are administered by coordinators at
each of our sites in one-on-one interviews. 
		- We provide 36-48 instructional hours per semester. (I
wonder if this precludes our using the BEST.) 
		- Most of our funding comes from two sources (government
and a private funder). 
		- The cost of standardized assessments is an important
factor to us. 
		Your advice is much appreciated. 
		Thanks, 
		Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 
		Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 
		ESOL Coordinator 
		Linkages to Learning 
		51 Monroe Street, Suite 1700 
		Rockville, MD 20850 
		Phone: (240) 777-1110 
		Fax: (240) 777-1111 
		ingrid.rodrickbeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov 
		-------------------------------
		National Institute for Literacy
		Assessment mailing list
		Assessment at nifl.gov
		To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings,
please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
		Email delivered to mjjerdems at yahoo.com
		




________________________________

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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Fri May 16 17:11:11 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 17:11:11 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1318] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
In-Reply-To: <7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F01839749@MAIL.cal.local>
Message-ID: <06d001c8b799$5e798280$0702a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi Bryan and Anthony,
 
A question to you Bryan - is the BEST then available for folks outside
the US?  Also, do you believe it's suitable for English speakers from
countries other than the US?
 
Thanks!


Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Bryan Woerner
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 2:35 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1317] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
 
Hello Anthony,
 
BEST Plus was designed for use with adult English language learners in
the United States.
 
Bryan
Adult ESL Assessments
Center for Applied Linguistics
 
  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Anthony Berry
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 8:34 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1315] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
Could someone please tell me how I an have sight of BEST. I have been
looking for an adaptive, normative, diagnostic test for ages and this
seems as though it might fit the bill.
 
What flavour of English is it? Yes, you can see that I am of the Queen's
English brigade!
 
Thanks for any help - btw this would be for research purposes not
productive use.
 
Anthony Berry


  _____  

Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 04:34:28 -0700
From: mjjerdems at yahoo.com
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1314] Re: CASAS vs. BEST

The BEST is great for assessing the learner's production of English. Its
additional pluses are that there are not test forms that learners can
learn it identify and recall easily; the test questions become harder or
easier depending on how the learner's responses are scored, which
mitigates differences between assessors; and it would be better able to
identify small progress than CASAS forms. 

The one major downside is that it takes time and more time as the
learners progress. A large program simply cannot afford to put the hours
into testing that BEST Plus requires.

I've used both CASAS and BEST Plus in smaller programs because one
instrument cannot give a full picture on a learner (Assessment 101), and
it maximizes the chance to show improvement at post-test. 

Good luck,

Mary Jane Jerde
Howard Community College

"Rodrick Beiler, Ingrid" <Ingrid.RodrickBeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov>
wrote: 
Hi everyone 
I serve as the coordinator for an adult ESOL program in Montgomery
County, MD. We offer classes mostly at the beginner level, with some
classes at literacy and intermediate levels as well. I am fairly new to
this field and am trying to determine the comparative usefulness of
CASAS and BEST for assessment of our program. Can anyone comment on
how/why their organizations might have chosen one over the other?
In case it is helpful for understanding my organization's needs, here is
some more background information: 
- We serve about 275-300 learners per semester. 
- Many of our learners have a very low educational level. 
- Pre- and post-tests are administered by our instructors during the
first and last classes of the semester. 
- Placement tests are administered by coordinators at each of our sites
in one-on-one interviews. 
- We provide 36-48 instructional hours per semester. (I wonder if this
precludes our using the BEST.) 
- Most of our funding comes from two sources (government and a private
funder). 
- The cost of standardized assessments is an important factor to us. 
Your advice is much appreciated. 
Thanks, 
Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 
Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 
ESOL Coordinator 
Linkages to Learning 
51 Monroe Street, Suite 1700 
Rockville, MD 20850 
Phone: (240) 777-1110 
Fax: (240) 777-1111 
ingrid.rodrickbeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov 
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to mjjerdems at yahoo.com
 
 
  _____  

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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Fri May 16 17:14:19 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 17:14:19 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1319] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
In-Reply-To: <BAY143-W5348AB0106B08D48398FF3EAC80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <06d501c8b799$cec86ce0$0702a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi Anthony,
 
Can you tell us some more details about the purpose and audience of the
assessment you're searching for?  Tell us more about what you mean by
adaptive test (below).  I think by normative, you mean norm-referenced,
is that correct?  
 
Others - do you have suggestions for Anthony's quest?
 
Thanks!


Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Anthony Berry
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 8:34 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1315] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
 
Could someone please tell me how I an have sight of BEST. I have been
looking for an adaptive, normative, diagnostic test for ages and this
seems as though it might fit the bill.
 
What flavour of English is it? Yes, you can see that I am of the Queen's
English brigade!
 
Thanks for any help - btw this would be for research purposes not
productive use.
 
Anthony Berry


  _____  

Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 04:34:28 -0700
From: mjjerdems at yahoo.com
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1314] Re: CASAS vs. BEST

The BEST is great for assessing the learner's production of English. Its
additional pluses are that there are not test forms that learners can
learn it identify and recall easily; the test questions become harder or
easier depending on how the learner's responses are scored, which
mitigates differences between assessors; and it would be better able to
identify small progress than CASAS forms. 

The one major downside is that it takes time and more time as the
learners progress. A large program simply cannot afford to put the hours
into testing that BEST Plus requires.

I've used both CASAS and BEST Plus in smaller programs because one
instrument cannot give a full picture on a learner (Assessment 101), and
it maximizes the chance to show improvement at post-test. 

Good luck,

Mary Jane Jerde
Howard Community College

"Rodrick Beiler, Ingrid" <Ingrid.RodrickBeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov>
wrote: 
Hi everyone 
I serve as the coordinator for an adult ESOL program in Montgomery
County, MD. We offer classes mostly at the beginner level, with some
classes at literacy and intermediate levels as well. I am fairly new to
this field and am trying to determine the comparative usefulness of
CASAS and BEST for assessment of our program. Can anyone comment on
how/why their organizations might have chosen one over the other?
In case it is helpful for understanding my organization's needs, here is
some more background information: 
- We serve about 275-300 learners per semester. 
- Many of our learners have a very low educational level. 
- Pre- and post-tests are administered by our instructors during the
first and last classes of the semester. 
- Placement tests are administered by coordinators at each of our sites
in one-on-one interviews. 
- We provide 36-48 instructional hours per semester. (I wonder if this
precludes our using the BEST.) 
- Most of our funding comes from two sources (government and a private
funder). 
- The cost of standardized assessments is an important factor to us. 
Your advice is much appreciated. 
Thanks, 
Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 
Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 
ESOL Coordinator 
Linkages to Learning 
51 Monroe Street, Suite 1700 
Rockville, MD 20850 
Phone: (240) 777-1110 
Fax: (240) 777-1111 
ingrid.rodrickbeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov 
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to mjjerdems at yahoo.com
 
 
  _____  

Get 5GB of online storage for free! Get it Now!
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From bwoerner at cal.org  Fri May 16 17:48:27 2008
From: bwoerner at cal.org (Bryan Woerner)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 17:48:27 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1320] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
In-Reply-To: <06d001c8b799$5e798280$0702a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F0183974F@MAIL.cal.local>

Hello Maria,
 
BEST Plus and BEST Literacy were developed for use with adult English
language learners who need to use English to function in day-to-day life
in an English-speaking context in the 50 United States. This means that
all test items and graphics were developed and included in the tests
based on cultural assumptions about life in the US. Therefore, the
results from either test really wouldn't be valid. They also wouldn't
suitable test for non-American English speakers who first language is
English, if I understand you correctly. The tests were designed for
non-native speakers. If, however, a non-native speaker who learned
British English came to the US and took ESL classes, then he or she
could be tested with BEST Plus or BEST Literacy.
 
What was known as the "BEST test" or the Basic English Skills Test, is
no longer published. It was developed in the 1980's and hadn't been
updated since then. The oral interview was replaced by BEST Plus in 2003
and the literacy skills section was updated and became BEST Literacy in
2006. Since the BEST test was around for so long, the nomenclature
sometimes get mixed up. But, like its descendents, it too was only valid
within the US for the same reasons.
 
And I would suggest to Anthony that he contact the TESOL organization.
They published a book called ESOL Tests and Testing which is a
compilation of many different ESL, EFL and ESP assessments.
http://www.tesol.org/s_tesol/sec_document.asp?CID=856&DID=3460
 
Bryan
 
 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 5:11 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1318] Re: CASAS vs. BEST


Hi Bryan and Anthony,
 
A question to you Bryan - is the BEST then available for folks outside
the US?  Also, do you believe it's suitable for English speakers from
countries other than the US?
 
Thanks!


Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Bryan Woerner
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 2:35 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1317] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
 
Hello Anthony,
 
BEST Plus was designed for use with adult English language learners in
the United States.
 
Bryan
Adult ESL Assessments
Center for Applied Linguistics
 
________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Anthony Berry
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 8:34 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1315] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
Could someone please tell me how I an have sight of BEST. I have been
looking for an adaptive, normative, diagnostic test for ages and this
seems as though it might fit the bill.
 
What flavour of English is it? Yes, you can see that I am of the Queen's
English brigade!
 
Thanks for any help - btw this would be for research purposes not
productive use.
 
Anthony Berry


________________________________

Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 04:34:28 -0700
From: mjjerdems at yahoo.com
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1314] Re: CASAS vs. BEST

The BEST is great for assessing the learner's production of English. Its
additional pluses are that there are not test forms that learners can
learn it identify and recall easily; the test questions become harder or
easier depending on how the learner's responses are scored, which
mitigates differences between assessors; and it would be better able to
identify small progress than CASAS forms. 

The one major downside is that it takes time and more time as the
learners progress. A large program simply cannot afford to put the hours
into testing that BEST Plus requires.

I've used both CASAS and BEST Plus in smaller programs because one
instrument cannot give a full picture on a learner (Assessment 101), and
it maximizes the chance to show improvement at post-test. 

Good luck,

Mary Jane Jerde
Howard Community College

"Rodrick Beiler, Ingrid" <Ingrid.RodrickBeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov>
wrote: 
Hi everyone 
I serve as the coordinator for an adult ESOL program in Montgomery
County, MD. We offer classes mostly at the beginner level, with some
classes at literacy and intermediate levels as well. I am fairly new to
this field and am trying to determine the comparative usefulness of
CASAS and BEST for assessment of our program. Can anyone comment on
how/why their organizations might have chosen one over the other?
In case it is helpful for understanding my organization's needs, here is
some more background information: 
- We serve about 275-300 learners per semester. 
- Many of our learners have a very low educational level. 
- Pre- and post-tests are administered by our instructors during the
first and last classes of the semester. 
- Placement tests are administered by coordinators at each of our sites
in one-on-one interviews. 
- We provide 36-48 instructional hours per semester. (I wonder if this
precludes our using the BEST.) 
- Most of our funding comes from two sources (government and a private
funder). 
- The cost of standardized assessments is an important factor to us. 
Your advice is much appreciated. 
Thanks, 
Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 
Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 
ESOL Coordinator 
Linkages to Learning 
51 Monroe Street, Suite 1700 
Rockville, MD 20850 
Phone: (240) 777-1110 
Fax: (240) 777-1111 
ingrid.rodrickbeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov 
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to mjjerdems at yahoo.com
 
 
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From mjjerdems at yahoo.com  Fri May 16 19:47:20 2008
From: mjjerdems at yahoo.com (Mary Jane Jerde)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 16:47:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Assessment 1322] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
In-Reply-To: <7E0B624DDF68104F92C38648A4D93D8F0183974F@MAIL.cal.local>
Message-ID: <679891.22690.qm@web54006.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hello All,

Since with BEST Plus the ESL students are scored on comprehension, complexity (grammar), and communication (how easily their responses can be understood), I think that either BEST or BEST Plus would make the leap to another English speaking country fairly easily. Certainly much better than most other test instruments like CASAS. 

The questions are for adults on common topics, shopping, neighborhood preferences, exercise, daily activities, etc. The occasional pictures are fairly generic. 

I think it would be worth a good look. 

It is too bad that the paper BEST is not available. It was great for quick placement in ongoing programs with rolling enrollment. 

Mary Jane Jerde
Howard Community College






Bryan Woerner <bwoerner at cal.org> wrote:      

 v\:* {  BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } o\:* {  BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } w\:* {  BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } .shape {  BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) }               Clean   Clean   DocumentEmail      MicrosoftInternetExplorer4    st1\:* {  BEHAVIOR: url(#default#ieooui) }   @font-face {  font-family: Tahoma; } @page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin: .5in; mso-footer-margin: .5in; mso-paper-source: 0; } P.MsoNormal {  FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman" } LI.MsoNormal {  FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoNormal {  FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family:
 "Times New Roman" } A:link {  COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single } SPAN.MsoHyperlink {  COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single } A:visited {  COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single } SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {  COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single } P {  FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto } P.NormalWeb1 {  FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-style-name: "Normal (Web)1" } LI.NormalWeb1 {  FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-style-name: "Normal (Web)1" } DIV.NormalWeb1 { 
 FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-style-name: "Normal (Web)1" } SPAN.EmailStyle19 {  COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: personal-reply; mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial } SPAN.SpellE {  mso-style-name: ""; mso-spl-e: yes } DIV.Section1 {  page: Section1 }     /* Style Definitions */   table.MsoNormalTable  {mso-style-name:"Table Normal";  mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;  mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;  mso-style-noshow:yes;  mso-style-parent:"";  mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;  mso-para-margin:0in;  mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;  mso-pagination:widow-orphan;  font-size:10.0pt;  font-family:"Times New Roman";}   Hello  Maria,
  
 BEST  Plus and BEST Literacy were developed for use with adult English language  learners who need to use English to function in day-to-day life in an  English-speaking context in the 50 United States. This means that all  test items and graphics were developed and included in the tests based on  cultural assumptions about life in the US. Therefore,  the results from either test really wouldn't be valid. They also  wouldn't suitable test for non-American English speakers who first language is  English, if I understand you correctly. The tests were designed for non-native  speakers. If, however, a non-native speaker who learned British  English came to the US and took ESL classes, then he or she could be tested with  BEST Plus or BEST Literacy.
  
 What  was known as the "BEST test" or the Basic English Skills Test, is no longer  published. It was developed in the 1980's and hadn't been updated since then.  The oral interview was replaced by BEST Plus in 2003 and the literacy  skills section was updated and became BEST Literacy in 2006. Since the BEST  test was around for so long, the nomenclature sometimes get mixed up. But,  like its descendents, it too was only valid within the US for the same  reasons.
  
 And I would suggest to  Anthony that he contact the TESOL organization. They published a book called  ESOL Tests and Testing which is a compilation of many different ESL, EFL and ESP  assessments.
 http://www.tesol.org/s_tesol/sec_document.asp?CID=856&DID=3460
  
 Bryan
  
  
 

  
---------------------------------
 From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov  [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Marie  Cora
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 5:11 PM
To: 'The Assessment  Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1318] Re: CASAS vs.  BEST


 
  Hi Bryan and  Anthony,
  
 A question to you Bryan  ? is the BEST then available for folks outside the  US?  Also, do you believe it?s suitable for  English speakers from countries other than the  US?
  
 Thanks!


 Marie  Cora
 Assessment  Discussion List  Moderator
  
  
 -----Original  Message-----
From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Bryan Woerner
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 2:35  PM
To: The Assessment  Discussion List
Subject:  [Assessment 1317] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
  
 Hello  Anthony,
  
 BEST Plus  was designed for use with adult English language learners in the United  States.
  
 Bryan
 Adult ESL  Assessments
 Center for  Applied Linguistics
  
  
---------------------------------
 
 From:  assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Anthony Berry
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 8:34  AM
To: The Assessment  Discussion List
Subject:  [Assessment 1315] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
 Could  someone please tell me how I an have sight of BEST. I have been looking for an  adaptive, normative, diagnostic test for ages and this seems as though it might  fit the bill.
 
What flavour of English is it? Yes, you can see that  I am of the Queen's English brigade!
 
Thanks for any help - btw this  would be for research purposes not productive use.
 
Anthony Berry


  
---------------------------------
 
 Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 04:34:28  -0700
From: mjjerdems at yahoo.com
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject:  [Assessment 1314] Re: CASAS vs. BEST

The BEST is great for assessing the  learner's production of English. Its additional pluses are that there are not  test forms that learners can learn it identify and recall easily; the test  questions become harder or easier depending on how the learner's responses are  scored, which mitigates differences between assessors; and it would be better  able to identify small progress than CASAS forms. 

The one major downside  is that it takes time and more time as the learners progress. A large program  simply cannot afford to put the hours into testing that BEST Plus  requires.

I've used both CASAS and BEST Plus in smaller programs because  one instrument cannot give a full picture on a learner (Assessment 101), and it  maximizes the chance to show improvement at post-test. 

Good  luck,

Mary Jane Jerde
Howard Community College

"Rodrick Beiler, Ingrid"  <Ingrid.RodrickBeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov> wrote:  
  Hi everyone  

  I serve as the coordinator for an  adult ESOL program in Montgomery County, MD. We offer classes mostly at the  beginner level, with some classes at literacy and intermediate levels as well. I  am fairly new to this field and am trying to determine the comparative  usefulness of CASAS and BEST for assessment of our program. Can anyone comment  on how/why their organizations might have chosen one over the  other?

  In case it is helpful for  understanding my organization's needs, here is some more background  information: 
- We serve about  275-300 learners per semester. 
- Many of our learners  have a very low educational level. 
- Pre- and post-tests  are administered by our instructors during the first and last classes of the  semester. 
- Placement tests are  administered by coordinators at each of our sites in one-on-one  interviews. 
- We provide 36-48  instructional hours per semester. (I wonder if this precludes our using the  BEST.) 
- Most of our funding  comes from two sources (government and a private funder).  
- The cost of standardized  assessments is an important factor to us.  

  Your advice is much  appreciated.  

  Thanks,  
Ingrid Rodrick  Beiler  

  Ingrid Rodrick  Beiler 
ESOL  Coordinator 
Linkages to  Learning 
51 Monroe Street, Suite  1700 
Rockville, MD  20850 
Phone: (240)  777-1110 
Fax: (240)  777-1111 
ingrid.rodrickbeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov  

 -------------------------------
National  Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To  unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to  mjjerdems at yahoo.com
  
  
  
---------------------------------
 
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-------------------------------
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From aberryesq at hotmail.co.uk  Sat May 17 08:41:05 2008
From: aberryesq at hotmail.co.uk (Anthony Berry)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 13:41:05 +0100
Subject: [Assessment 1321] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
In-Reply-To: <06d501c8b799$cec86ce0$0702a8c0@LITNOW>
References: <BAY143-W5348AB0106B08D48398FF3EAC80@phx.gbl>
	<06d501c8b799$cec86ce0$0702a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <BAY143-W386170BFF7EB48D4C412F0EACB0@phx.gbl>


Hi Maria
 
By adaptive I mean a test that responds to the answers submitted by the testee (normally to wrong answers) and asks subsequent questions that will test whether it was a true wrong response; ie an error, or a false wrong response; ie a mistake (drilling down to slips would, I think be too difficult) -  thereby delving down into the problem area and subsequently being able to diagnose the learner's areas in need of attention. In my environment, at a private business EFL school in England, what stds want/need is to be assessed for the level of their learning and, if possible, at the same time to have sufficient timely feedback to help them progress in the relatively short timeframes available.
 
Any thoughts anyone?
 
Anthony


From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.comTo: assessment at nifl.govDate: Fri, 16 May 2008 17:14:19 -0400Subject: [Assessment 1319] Re: CASAS vs. BEST








Hi Anthony,
 
Can you tell us some more details about the purpose and audience of the assessment you?re searching for?  Tell us more about what you mean by adaptive test (below).  I think by normative, you mean norm-referenced, is that correct?  
 
Others ? do you have suggestions for Anthony?s quest?
 
Thanks!
Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Anthony BerrySent: Friday, May 16, 2008 8:34 AMTo: The Assessment Discussion ListSubject: [Assessment 1315] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
 
Could someone please tell me how I an have sight of BEST. I have been looking for an adaptive, normative, diagnostic test for ages and this seems as though it might fit the bill. What flavour of English is it? Yes, you can see that I am of the Queen's English brigade! Thanks for any help - btw this would be for research purposes not productive use. Anthony Berry



Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 04:34:28 -0700From: mjjerdems at yahoo.comTo: assessment at nifl.govSubject: [Assessment 1314] Re: CASAS vs. BESTThe BEST is great for assessing the learner's production of English. Its additional pluses are that there are not test forms that learners can learn it identify and recall easily; the test questions become harder or easier depending on how the learner's responses are scored, which mitigates differences between assessors; and it would be better able to identify small progress than CASAS forms. The one major downside is that it takes time and more time as the learners progress. A large program simply cannot afford to put the hours into testing that BEST Plus requires.I've used both CASAS and BEST Plus in smaller programs because one instrument cannot give a full picture on a learner (Assessment 101), and it maximizes the chance to show improvement at post-test. Good luck,Mary Jane JerdeHoward Community College"Rodrick Beiler, Ingrid" <Ingrid.RodrickBeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov> wrote: 

Hi everyone 

I serve as the coordinator for an adult ESOL program in Montgomery County, MD. We offer classes mostly at the beginner level, with some classes at literacy and intermediate levels as well. I am fairly new to this field and am trying to determine the comparative usefulness of CASAS and BEST for assessment of our program. Can anyone comment on how/why their organizations might have chosen one over the other?

In case it is helpful for understanding my organization's needs, here is some more background information: - We serve about 275-300 learners per semester. - Many of our learners have a very low educational level. - Pre- and post-tests are administered by our instructors during the first and last classes of the semester. - Placement tests are administered by coordinators at each of our sites in one-on-one interviews. - We provide 36-48 instructional hours per semester. (I wonder if this precludes our using the BEST.) - Most of our funding comes from two sources (government and a private funder). - The cost of standardized assessments is an important factor to us. 

Your advice is much appreciated. 

Thanks, Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 

Ingrid Rodrick Beiler ESOL Coordinator Linkages to Learning 51 Monroe Street, Suite 1700 Rockville, MD 20850 Phone: (240) 777-1110 Fax: (240) 777-1111 ingrid.rodrickbeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov 
-------------------------------National Institute for LiteracyAssessment mailing listAssessment at nifl.govTo unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessmentEmail delivered to mjjerdems at yahoo.com
 
 



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From taklein at austin.rr.com  Mon May 19 08:10:47 2008
From: taklein at austin.rr.com (Ted Klein)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 07:10:47 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1323] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
References: <679891.22690.qm@web54006.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002301c8b9a9$5f98f350$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>

Mary Jane,

I developed the following oral interview for initial placement. The scores below for each question are based on part of the federal Oral Proficiency Interview (OPI) system. It's quick and it works.

Ted
www.tedklein-ESL.com



ORAL INTERVIEW QUESTIONS TO DETERMINE ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE

 

                                                      Block 2                 Ted Klein

 

Questions marked with an asterisk * are mandatory. Of the remaining questions, ten should be selected at random. Speech of the interviewer will be at normal speed and clarity, with NO exaggeration.

 

1. What is your name please?* -----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

2. Where are you from?* -------

 

3. What part of XXXXXXX are you from?-------

 

4. What is your native language? -------

 

5. How long have you been in America? -------

 

6. Do you read English?* -------

 

7. Did you study English in your country? -------

 

8. How long did you study English? -------

 

9. Are you enjoying the U.S.A? -------

 

10. What do you like here? -------

 

11. Is there anything that you don't like? -------

 

12. Have you studied any other languages besides English? -------

 

13. Why do you want to learn English? -------

 

14. How many years of education have you had? -------

 

15. Do you have any hobbies? What are they? -------

 

16. Do you have any American friends to practice English with? -------

 

17. Do you work?  Where? -------

 

18. What are your plans for the future? -------

 

19. Why did you come to America? -------

 

20. Do you have any questions for me? -------

 

 

Mark responses: 0 no answer.   0+ telegraphic/very simple response. 

1 simple, but complete response.  1+ functional and clear response.

2   somewhat elaborate, fairly clear and mostly grammatical response.

 

Interviewees with ten or more answers in the 1+ to 2 range should be ready to take a written

proficiency test of listening and reading skills. Non-readers are excluded. (ref: Ques. 6)




  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mary Jane Jerde 
  To: The Assessment Discussion List 
  Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 6:47 PM
  Subject: [Assessment 1322] Re: CASAS vs. BEST


  Hello All,

  Since with BEST Plus the ESL students are scored on comprehension, complexity (grammar), and communication (how easily their responses can be understood), I think that either BEST or BEST Plus would make the leap to another English speaking country fairly easily. Certainly much better than most other test instruments like CASAS. 

  The questions are for adults on common topics, shopping, neighborhood preferences, exercise, daily activities, etc. The occasional pictures are fairly generic. 

  I think it would be worth a good look. 

  It is too bad that the paper BEST is not available. It was great for quick placement in ongoing programs with rolling enrollment. 

  Mary Jane Jerde
  Howard Community College






  Bryan Woerner <bwoerner at cal.org> wrote:
    Hello Maria,

    BEST Plus and BEST Literacy were developed for use with adult English language learners who need to use English to function in day-to-day life in an English-speaking context in the 50 United States. This means that all test items and graphics were developed and included in the tests based on cultural assumptions about life in the US. Therefore, the results from either test really wouldn't be valid. They also wouldn't suitable test for non-American English speakers who first language is English, if I understand you correctly. The tests were designed for non-native speakers. If, however, a non-native speaker who learned British English came to the US and took ESL classes, then he or she could be tested with BEST Plus or BEST Literacy.

    What was known as the "BEST test" or the Basic English Skills Test, is no longer published. It was developed in the 1980's and hadn't been updated since then. The oral interview was replaced by BEST Plus in 2003 and the literacy skills section was updated and became BEST Literacy in 2006. Since the BEST test was around for so long, the nomenclature sometimes get mixed up. But, like its descendents, it too was only valid within the US for the same reasons.

    And I would suggest to Anthony that he contact the TESOL organization. They published a book called ESOL Tests and Testing which is a compilation of many different ESL, EFL and ESP assessments.
    http://www.tesol.org/s_tesol/sec_document.asp?CID=856&DID=3460

    Bryan





----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Marie Cora
    Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 5:11 PM
    To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
    Subject: [Assessment 1318] Re: CASAS vs. BEST


    Hi Bryan and Anthony,

    A question to you Bryan - is the BEST then available for folks outside the US?  Also, do you believe it's suitable for English speakers from countries other than the US?

    Thanks!
    <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
    <!--[endif]-->
    Marie Cora
    Assessment Discussion List Moderator


    -----Original Message-----
    From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Bryan Woerner
    Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 2:35 PM
    To: The Assessment Discussion List
    Subject: [Assessment 1317] Re: CASAS vs. BEST

    Hello Anthony,

    BEST Plus was designed for use with adult English language learners in the United States.

    Bryan
    Adult ESL Assessments
    Center for Applied Linguistics


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Anthony Berry
    Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 8:34 AM
    To: The Assessment Discussion List
    Subject: [Assessment 1315] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
    Could someone please tell me how I an have sight of BEST. I have been looking for an adaptive, normative, diagnostic test for ages and this seems as though it might fit the bill.
     
    What flavour of English is it? Yes, you can see that I am of the Queen's English brigade!
     
    Thanks for any help - btw this would be for research purposes not productive use.
     
    Anthony Berry
    <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
    <!--[endif]-->

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 04:34:28 -0700
    From: mjjerdems at yahoo.com
    To: assessment at nifl.gov
    Subject: [Assessment 1314] Re: CASAS vs. BEST

    The BEST is great for assessing the learner's production of English. Its additional pluses are that there are not test forms that learners can learn it identify and recall easily; the test questions become harder or easier depending on how the learner's responses are scored, which mitigates differences between assessors; and it would be better able to identify small progress than CASAS forms. 

    The one major downside is that it takes time and more time as the learners progress. A large program simply cannot afford to put the hours into testing that BEST Plus requires.

    I've used both CASAS and BEST Plus in smaller programs because one instrument cannot give a full picture on a learner (Assessment 101), and it maximizes the chance to show improvement at post-test. 

    Good luck,

    Mary Jane Jerde
    Howard Community College

    "Rodrick Beiler, Ingrid" <Ingrid.RodrickBeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov> wrote: 
    Hi everyone 
    I serve as the coordinator for an adult ESOL program in Montgomery County, MD. We offer classes mostly at the beginner level, with some classes at literacy and intermediate levels as well. I am fairly new to this field and am trying to determine the comparative usefulness of CASAS and BEST for assessment of our program. Can anyone comment on how/why their organizations might have chosen one over the other?
    In case it is helpful for understanding my organization's needs, here is some more background information: 
    - We serve about 275-300 learners per semester. 
    - Many of our learners have a very low educational level. 
    - Pre- and post-tests are administered by our instructors during the first and last classes of the semester. 
    - Placement tests are administered by coordinators at each of our sites in one-on-one interviews. 
    - We provide 36-48 instructional hours per semester. (I wonder if this precludes our using the BEST.) 
    - Most of our funding comes from two sources (government and a private funder). 
    - The cost of standardized assessments is an important factor to us. 
    Your advice is much appreciated. 
    Thanks, 
    Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 
    Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 
    ESOL Coordinator 
    Linkages to Learning 
    51 Monroe Street, Suite 1700 
    Rockville, MD 20850 
    Phone: (240) 777-1110 
    Fax: (240) 777-1111 
    ingrid.rodrickbeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov 
    -------------------------------
    National Institute for Literacy
    Assessment mailing list
    Assessment at nifl.gov
    To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
    Email delivered to mjjerdems at yahoo.com



----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From mjjerdems at yahoo.com  Mon May 19 18:00:24 2008
From: mjjerdems at yahoo.com (Mary Jane Jerde)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 15:00:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Assessment 1324] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
In-Reply-To: <002301c8b9a9$5f98f350$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
Message-ID: <369101.10457.qm@web54012.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Thanks,

Mary Jane

Ted Klein <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:     Mary Jane,
  
 I developed the following oral interview for initial placement. The scores  below for each question are based on part of the federal Oral Proficiency  Interview (OPI) system. It's quick and it works.
  
 Ted
 www.tedklein-ESL.com
  
   
 ORAL INTERVIEW QUESTIONS TO  DETERMINE ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE
  
                                                         Block 2                  Ted  Klein
  
 Questions  marked with an asterisk * are mandatory. Of the remaining questions, ten should  be selected at random. Speech of the interviewer will be at normal speed and  clarity, with NO exaggeration.
  
 1. What  is your name please?*  -----------------------------------------------------------------------
  
 2. Where  are you from?* -------
  
 3. What  part of XXXXXXX are you from?-------
  
 4. What  is your native language? -------
  
 5. How  long have you been in America?  -------
  
 6. Do you  read English?* -------
  
 7. Did  you study English in your country? -------
  
 8. How  long did you study English? -------
  
 9. Are  you enjoying the U.S.A? -------
  
 10. What  do you like here? -------
  
 11. Is  there anything that you don't like? -------
  
 12. Have  you studied any other languages besides English? -------
  
 13. Why  do you want to learn English? -------
  
 14. How  many years of education have you had? -------
  
 15. Do  you have any hobbies? What are they? -------
  
 16. Do  you have any American friends to practice English with? -------
  
 17. Do  you work?  Where? -------
  
 18. What  are your plans for the future? -------
  
 19. Why  did you come to America? -------
  
 20. Do  you have any questions for me? -------
  
  
 Mark  responses: 0 no answer.   0+  telegraphic/very simple response. 
 1 simple,  but complete response.  1+  functional and clear response.
 2   somewhat elaborate, fairly clear  and mostly grammatical response.
  
 Interviewees with ten or more answers in the 1+ to 2 range should be  ready to take a written
 proficiency test of listening and reading skills. Non-readers are  excluded. (ref: Ques. 6)

  
  
  
    ----- Original Message ----- 
   From:    Mary Jane    Jerde 
   To: The Assessment Discussion List 
   Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 6:47 PM
   Subject: [Assessment 1322] Re: CASAS vs.    BEST
   

Hello All,

Since with BEST Plus the ESL students are    scored on comprehension, complexity (grammar), and communication (how easily    their responses can be understood), I think that either BEST or BEST Plus    would make the leap to another English speaking country fairly easily.    Certainly much better than most other test instruments like CASAS. 

The    questions are for adults on common topics, shopping, neighborhood preferences,    exercise, daily activities, etc. The occasional pictures are fairly generic.    

I think it would be worth a good look. 

It is too bad that the    paper BEST is not available. It was great for quick placement in ongoing    programs with rolling enrollment. 

Mary Jane Jerde
Howard Community    College






Bryan Woerner    <bwoerner at cal.org> wrote:                  

     v\:* {  BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } o\:* {  BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } w\:* {  BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } .shape {  BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) }               Clean   Clean   DocumentEmail      MicrosoftInternetExplorer4        st1\:* {  BEHAVIOR: url(#default#ieooui) }       @font-face {  font-family: Tahoma; } @page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin: .5in; mso-footer-margin: .5in; mso-paper-source: 0; } P.MsoNormal {  FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman" } LI.MsoNormal {  FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination:  widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoNormal {  FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan;
 mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman" } A:link {  COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single } SPAN.MsoHyperlink {  COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single } A:visited {  COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single } SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {  COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single } P {  FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto } P.NormalWeb1 {  FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-style-name: "Normal  (Web)1" } LI.NormalWeb1 {  FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-style-name: "Normal
 (Web)1" } DIV.NormalWeb1 {  FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-style-name: "Normal (Web)1" } SPAN.EmailStyle19 {  COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: personal-reply; mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial } SPAN.SpellE {  mso-style-name: ""; mso-spl-e: yes } DIV.Section1 {  page: Section1 }     /* Style Definitions */   table.MsoNormalTable  {mso-style-name:"Table Normal";  mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;  mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;  mso-style-noshow:yes;  mso-style-parent:"";  mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt  0in 5.4pt;  mso-para-margin:0in;  mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;  mso-pagination:widow-orphan;  font-size:10.0pt;  font-family:"Times New Roman";}       Hello Maria,
      
     BEST Plus and BEST      Literacy were developed for use with adult English language learners who      need to use English to function in day-to-day life in an English-speaking      context in the 50 United      States. This means that all test items and      graphics were developed and included in the tests based on cultural      assumptions about life in the US. Therefore, the results from      either test really wouldn't be valid. They also wouldn't suitable      test for non-American English speakers who first language is English, if I      understand you correctly. The tests were designed for non-native      speakers. If, however, a non-native speaker who learned British      English came to the US and took ESL classes, then he or she could be tested      with BEST Plus or BEST Literacy.
      
     What was known as      the "BEST test" or the Basic English Skills Test, is no longer      published. It was developed in the 1980's and hadn't been updated since      then. The oral interview was replaced by BEST Plus in 2003 and the      literacy skills section was updated and became BEST Literacy in 2006.      Since the BEST test was around for so long, the nomenclature      sometimes get mixed up. But, like its descendents, it too was only valid      within the US for the same reasons.
      
     And I would suggest      to Anthony that he contact the TESOL organization. They published a book      called ESOL Tests and Testing which is a compilation of many different ESL,      EFL and ESP assessments.
     http://www.tesol.org/s_tesol/sec_document.asp?CID=856&DID=3460
      
     Bryan
      
      
     

          
---------------------------------
     From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov      [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Marie      Cora
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 5:11 PM
To: 'The      Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1318] Re: CASAS      vs. BEST


     
          Hi Bryan and      Anthony,
     
     A question to you      Bryan ? is the BEST then available for folks outside the      US?       Also, do you believe it?s suitable for English speakers from      countries other than the US?
     
     Thanks!
<!--[if      !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
<!--[endif]-->
     Marie      Cora
     Assessment      Discussion List      Moderator
     
     
     -----Original      Message-----
From:      assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Bryan Woerner
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 2:35      PM
To: The Assessment      Discussion List
Subject:      [Assessment 1317] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
     
     Hello      Anthony,
     
     BEST      Plus was designed for use with adult English language learners in the United      States.
     
     Bryan
     Adult      ESL Assessments
     Center      for Applied Linguistics
     
          
---------------------------------
     
     From:      assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Anthony Berry
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 8:34      AM
To: The Assessment      Discussion List
Subject:      [Assessment 1315] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
     Could      someone please tell me how I an have sight of BEST. I have been looking for      an adaptive, normative, diagnostic test for ages and this seems as though it      might fit the bill.
 
What flavour of English is it? Yes, you can      see that I am of the Queen's English brigade!
 
Thanks for any      help - btw this would be for research purposes not productive      use.
 
Anthony Berry
<!--[if      !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
<!--[endif]-->
          
---------------------------------
     
     Date: Fri, 16 May      2008 04:34:28 -0700
From: mjjerdems at yahoo.com
To:      assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1314] Re: CASAS vs.      BEST

The BEST is great for assessing the learner's production of      English. Its additional pluses are that there are not test forms that      learners can learn it identify and recall easily; the test questions become      harder or easier depending on how the learner's responses are scored, which      mitigates differences between assessors; and it would be better able to      identify small progress than CASAS forms. 

The one major downside is      that it takes time and more time as the learners progress. A large program      simply cannot afford to put the hours into testing that BEST Plus      requires.

I've used both CASAS and BEST Plus in smaller programs      because one instrument cannot give a full picture on a learner (Assessment      101), and it maximizes the chance to show improvement at post-test.      

Good luck,

Mary Jane Jerde
Howard Community      College

"Rodrick Beiler, Ingrid"      <Ingrid.RodrickBeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov> wrote:      
          Hi      everyone      

          I serve as the      coordinator for an adult ESOL program in Montgomery County, MD. We offer      classes mostly at the beginner level, with some classes at literacy and      intermediate levels as well. I am fairly new to this field and am trying to      determine the comparative usefulness of CASAS and BEST for assessment of our      program. Can anyone comment on how/why their organizations might have chosen      one over the other?

          In case it is      helpful for understanding my organization's needs, here is some more      background information: 
- We      serve about 275-300 learners per semester.      
- Many of our learners have a      very low educational level. 
- Pre-      and post-tests are administered by our instructors during the first and last      classes of the semester. 
-      Placement tests are administered by coordinators at each of our sites in      one-on-one interviews. 
- We      provide 36-48 instructional hours per semester. (I wonder if this precludes      our using the BEST.) 
- Most      of our funding comes from two sources (government and a private      funder). 
- The      cost of standardized assessments is an important factor to      us.      

          Your advice is much      appreciated.      

          Thanks,      
Ingrid Rodrick      Beiler      

          Ingrid      Rodrick Beiler 
ESOL      Coordinator 
Linkages      to Learning 
51      Monroe Street, Suite 1700 
Rockville, MD      20850 
Phone:      (240) 777-1110 
Fax:      (240) 777-1111 
ingrid.rodrickbeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov      

     -------------------------------
National      Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing      list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription      settings, please go to      http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to      mjjerdems at yahoo.com
     
     
          
---------------------------------
     
     Get 5GB of online      storage for free! Get it Now!      

-------------------------------
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To unsubscribe or change your subscription      settings, please go to      http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to      mjjerdems at yahoo.com

      
   

---------------------------------
    
-------------------------------
National Institute for    Literacy
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Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe    or change your subscription settings, please go to    http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
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-------------------------------
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From Kay.Peralta at scott.kyschools.us  Mon May 19 20:01:12 2008
From: Kay.Peralta at scott.kyschools.us (Peralta, Kay)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 20:01:12 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1325] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
References: <679891.22690.qm@web54006.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B33902F6E065B34F92DF2070A26714CF06DAD230@ED525X1.scott.ketsds.net>

BEST is no longer available - but BEST Literacy took the place and it is available.  I offer the training for the State of Kentucky.  Go to the CAL website and find out more about this.  It is updated pictures, etc. from the BEST but is still the same.
 
Kay Peralta
Scott County Schools
502-570-8984

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Mary Jane Jerde
Sent: Fri 5/16/2008 7:47 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1322] Re: CASAS vs. BEST


Hello All,

Since with BEST Plus the ESL students are scored on comprehension, complexity (grammar), and communication (how easily their responses can be understood), I think that either BEST or BEST Plus would make the leap to another English speaking country fairly easily. Certainly much better than most other test instruments like CASAS. 

The questions are for adults on common topics, shopping, neighborhood preferences, exercise, daily activities, etc. The occasional pictures are fairly generic. 

I think it would be worth a good look. 

It is too bad that the paper BEST is not available. It was great for quick placement in ongoing programs with rolling enrollment. 

Mary Jane Jerde
Howard Community College






Bryan Woerner <bwoerner at cal.org> wrote: 

	Hello Maria,
	 
	BEST Plus and BEST Literacy were developed for use with adult English language learners who need to use English to function in day-to-day life in an English-speaking context in the 50 United States. This means that all test items and graphics were developed and included in the tests based on cultural assumptions about life in the US. Therefore, the results from either test really wouldn't be valid. They also wouldn't suitable test for non-American English speakers who first language is English, if I understand you correctly. The tests were designed for non-native speakers. If, however, a non-native speaker who learned British English came to the US and took ESL classes, then he or she could be tested with BEST Plus or BEST Literacy.
	 
	What was known as the "BEST test" or the Basic English Skills Test, is no longer published. It was developed in the 1980's and hadn't been updated since then. The oral interview was replaced by BEST Plus in 2003 and the literacy skills section was updated and became BEST Literacy in 2006. Since the BEST test was around for so long, the nomenclature sometimes get mixed up. But, like its descendents, it too was only valid within the US for the same reasons.
	 
	And I would suggest to Anthony that he contact the TESOL organization. They published a book called ESOL Tests and Testing which is a compilation of many different ESL, EFL and ESP assessments.
	http://www.tesol.org/s_tesol/sec_document.asp?CID=856&DID=3460
	 
	Bryan
	 
	 

________________________________

	From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Marie Cora
	Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 5:11 PM
	To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
	Subject: [Assessment 1318] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
	
	
	Hi Bryan and Anthony,
	 
	A question to you Bryan - is the BEST then available for folks outside the US?  Also, do you believe it's suitable for English speakers from countries other than the US?
	 
	Thanks!
	
	
	Marie Cora
	Assessment Discussion List Moderator
	 
	 
	-----Original Message-----
	From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Bryan Woerner
	Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 2:35 PM
	To: The Assessment Discussion List
	Subject: [Assessment 1317] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
	 
	Hello Anthony,
	 
	BEST Plus was designed for use with adult English language learners in the United States.
	 
	Bryan
	Adult ESL Assessments
	Center for Applied Linguistics
	 
	
________________________________

	From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Anthony Berry
	Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 8:34 AM
	To: The Assessment Discussion List
	Subject: [Assessment 1315] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
	Could someone please tell me how I an have sight of BEST. I have been looking for an adaptive, normative, diagnostic test for ages and this seems as though it might fit the bill.
	 
	What flavour of English is it? Yes, you can see that I am of the Queen's English brigade!
	 
	Thanks for any help - btw this would be for research purposes not productive use.
	 
	Anthony Berry
	
	
	
________________________________

	Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 04:34:28 -0700
	From: mjjerdems at yahoo.com
	To: assessment at nifl.gov
	Subject: [Assessment 1314] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
	
	The BEST is great for assessing the learner's production of English. Its additional pluses are that there are not test forms that learners can learn it identify and recall easily; the test questions become harder or easier depending on how the learner's responses are scored, which mitigates differences between assessors; and it would be better able to identify small progress than CASAS forms. 
	
	The one major downside is that it takes time and more time as the learners progress. A large program simply cannot afford to put the hours into testing that BEST Plus requires.
	
	I've used both CASAS and BEST Plus in smaller programs because one instrument cannot give a full picture on a learner (Assessment 101), and it maximizes the chance to show improvement at post-test. 
	
	Good luck,
	
	Mary Jane Jerde
	Howard Community College
	
	"Rodrick Beiler, Ingrid" <Ingrid.RodrickBeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov> wrote: 
	Hi everyone 
	I serve as the coordinator for an adult ESOL program in Montgomery County, MD. We offer classes mostly at the beginner level, with some classes at literacy and intermediate levels as well. I am fairly new to this field and am trying to determine the comparative usefulness of CASAS and BEST for assessment of our program. Can anyone comment on how/why their organizations might have chosen one over the other?
	In case it is helpful for understanding my organization's needs, here is some more background information: 
	- We serve about 275-300 learners per semester. 
	- Many of our learners have a very low educational level. 
	- Pre- and post-tests are administered by our instructors during the first and last classes of the semester. 
	- Placement tests are administered by coordinators at each of our sites in one-on-one interviews. 
	- We provide 36-48 instructional hours per semester. (I wonder if this precludes our using the BEST.) 
	- Most of our funding comes from two sources (government and a private funder). 
	- The cost of standardized assessments is an important factor to us. 
	Your advice is much appreciated. 
	Thanks, 
	Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 
	Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 
	ESOL Coordinator 
	Linkages to Learning 
	51 Monroe Street, Suite 1700 
	Rockville, MD 20850 
	Phone: (240) 777-1110 
	Fax: (240) 777-1111 
	ingrid.rodrickbeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov 
	-------------------------------
	National Institute for Literacy
	Assessment mailing list
	Assessment at nifl.gov
	To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
	Email delivered to mjjerdems at yahoo.com
	 
	 
	
________________________________

	Get 5GB of online storage for free! Get it Now! <http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl0010000005ukm/direct/01/> 
	-------------------------------
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	Assessment mailing list
	Assessment at nifl.gov
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	Email delivered to mjjerdems at yahoo.com
	


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From kburger at ciesc.k12.in.us  Tue May 20 10:28:45 2008
From: kburger at ciesc.k12.in.us (Karen Burger)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 10:28:45 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1325] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
In-Reply-To: <B33902F6E065B34F92DF2070A26714CF06DAD230@ED525X1.scott.ketsds.net>
Message-ID: <20080520142911.928DC11C27@mail.nifl.gov>

Here in Indiana we use CASAS for EL classes.  The main reason is for
reporting purposes, however it is an excellent tool for directing
instruction as well.  Yes, it does focus on reading and writing although
there is also a listening component as well.  Listening is the hardest to
get a level gain (NRS guidelines).  The CASAS Life and Work reading test is
very well put together.  It includes reading selections, charts, work
schedules, paystubs, newspaper articles, want ads, nutritional information
labels, department store sale signs, maps, instruction manuals, recipes,
medicine bottle labels...all authentic materials that require the type of
reading needed in everyday life.  All the questions are coded according the
CASAS competencies and can be correlated with Basic Skill Content Standards.
There are sample questions on the CASAS website, www.casas.org
<http://www.casas.org/>   and descriptions of the various tests available.  

 

As is true with any assessment tool, CASAS is just one measure that can give
us a snapshot of and Educational Functioning Level according to an approved
definition.  The test can't do it all and a student might eventually test
out of CASAS and still need instruction.  Nonetheless, the test items are
meaningful and useful for informing instruction.  I made it a point to
devote a portion of my classroom instruction to the CASAS competencies.  I
made posters and charts, used newspapers and had learners bring in forms,
signs, etc. that were similar to those found in the tests.  Then I
formulated questions to "test" comprehension that the students could use as
individuals, in pairs or as a group.  We used them to break up the class,
"walk-arounds" with a clipboard.  Lots of fun, a great springboard for
further instruction or discussion and gave meaning to the pre-post testing
in that learners saw a connection between the test and the class

 

I can't comment of BEST.  We don't use it.

Karen Burger 
Professional Development Consultant 
IDOE Adult Education Professional Development Project 
6321 La Pas Trail 
Indianapolis, IN 46268 
317-387-7117 
1-800-532-8339 
Fax 317-328-7298 
kburger at ciesc.k12.in.us 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Peralta, Kay
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 8:01 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1325] Re: CASAS vs. BEST

 

BEST is no longer available - but BEST Literacy took the place and it is
available.  I offer the training for the State of Kentucky.  Go to the CAL
website and find out more about this.  It is updated pictures, etc. from the
BEST but is still the same.

 

Kay Peralta

Scott County Schools

502-570-8984

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Mary Jane Jerde
Sent: Fri 5/16/2008 7:47 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1322] Re: CASAS vs. BEST

Hello All,

Since with BEST Plus the ESL students are scored on comprehension,
complexity (grammar), and communication (how easily their responses can be
understood), I think that either BEST or BEST Plus would make the leap to
another English speaking country fairly easily. Certainly much better than
most other test instruments like CASAS. 

The questions are for adults on common topics, shopping, neighborhood
preferences, exercise, daily activities, etc. The occasional pictures are
fairly generic. 

I think it would be worth a good look. 

It is too bad that the paper BEST is not available. It was great for quick
placement in ongoing programs with rolling enrollment. 

Mary Jane Jerde
Howard Community College






Bryan Woerner <bwoerner at cal.org> wrote: 

Hello Maria,

 

BEST Plus and BEST Literacy were developed for use with adult English
language learners who need to use English to function in day-to-day life in
an English-speaking context in the 50 United States. This means that all
test items and graphics were developed and included in the tests based on
cultural assumptions about life in the US. Therefore, the results from
either test really wouldn't be valid. They also wouldn't suitable test for
non-American English speakers who first language is English, if I understand
you correctly. The tests were designed for non-native speakers. If, however,
a non-native speaker who learned British English came to the US and took ESL
classes, then he or she could be tested with BEST Plus or BEST Literacy.

 

What was known as the "BEST test" or the Basic English Skills Test, is no
longer published. It was developed in the 1980's and hadn't been updated
since then. The oral interview was replaced by BEST Plus in 2003 and the
literacy skills section was updated and became BEST Literacy in 2006. Since
the BEST test was around for so long, the nomenclature sometimes get mixed
up. But, like its descendents, it too was only valid within the US for the
same reasons.

 

And I would suggest to Anthony that he contact the TESOL organization. They
published a book called ESOL Tests and Testing which is a compilation of
many different ESL, EFL and ESP assessments.

http://www.tesol.org/s_tesol/sec_document.asp?CID=856
<http://www.tesol.org/s_tesol/sec_document.asp?CID=856&DID=3460> &DID=3460

 

Bryan

 

 

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 5:11 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1318] Re: CASAS vs. BEST

Hi Bryan and Anthony,

 

A question to you Bryan - is the BEST then available for folks outside the
US?  Also, do you believe it's suitable for English speakers from countries
other than the US?

 

Thanks!

Marie Cora

Assessment Discussion List Moderator

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Bryan Woerner
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 2:35 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1317] Re: CASAS vs. BEST

 

Hello Anthony,

 

BEST Plus was designed for use with adult English language learners in the
United States.

 

Bryan

Adult ESL Assessments

Center for Applied Linguistics

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Anthony Berry
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 8:34 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1315] Re: CASAS vs. BEST

Could someone please tell me how I an have sight of BEST. I have been
looking for an adaptive, normative, diagnostic test for ages and this seems
as though it might fit the bill.
 
What flavour of English is it? Yes, you can see that I am of the Queen's
English brigade!
 
Thanks for any help - btw this would be for research purposes not productive
use.
 
Anthony Berry

  _____  

Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 04:34:28 -0700
From: mjjerdems at yahoo.com
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1314] Re: CASAS vs. BEST

The BEST is great for assessing the learner's production of English. Its
additional pluses are that there are not test forms that learners can learn
it identify and recall easily; the test questions become harder or easier
depending on how the learner's responses are scored, which mitigates
differences between assessors; and it would be better able to identify small
progress than CASAS forms. 

The one major downside is that it takes time and more time as the learners
progress. A large program simply cannot afford to put the hours into testing
that BEST Plus requires.

I've used both CASAS and BEST Plus in smaller programs because one
instrument cannot give a full picture on a learner (Assessment 101), and it
maximizes the chance to show improvement at post-test. 

Good luck,

Mary Jane Jerde
Howard Community College

"Rodrick Beiler, Ingrid" <Ingrid.RodrickBeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov>
wrote: 

Hi everyone 

I serve as the coordinator for an adult ESOL program in Montgomery County,
MD. We offer classes mostly at the beginner level, with some classes at
literacy and intermediate levels as well. I am fairly new to this field and
am trying to determine the comparative usefulness of CASAS and BEST for
assessment of our program. Can anyone comment on how/why their organizations
might have chosen one over the other?

In case it is helpful for understanding my organization's needs, here is
some more background information: 
- We serve about 275-300 learners per semester. 
- Many of our learners have a very low educational level. 
- Pre- and post-tests are administered by our instructors during the first
and last classes of the semester. 
- Placement tests are administered by coordinators at each of our sites in
one-on-one interviews. 
- We provide 36-48 instructional hours per semester. (I wonder if this
precludes our using the BEST.) 
- Most of our funding comes from two sources (government and a private
funder). 
- The cost of standardized assessments is an important factor to us. 

Your advice is much appreciated. 

Thanks, 
Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 

Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 
ESOL Coordinator 
Linkages to Learning 
51 Monroe Street, Suite 1700 
Rockville, MD 20850 
Phone: (240) 777-1110 
Fax: (240) 777-1111 
ingrid.rodrickbeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov 

-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to mjjerdems at yahoo.com

 

 

  _____  

Get 5GB of online storage for free! Get it Now!
<http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl0010000005ukm/direct/01/> 

-------------------------------
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Assessment mailing list
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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to mjjerdems at yahoo.com

 

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From nfaux at vcu.edu  Wed May 21 11:20:43 2008
From: nfaux at vcu.edu (Nancy R Faux/AC/VCU)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 11:20:43 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1326] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
In-Reply-To: <369101.10457.qm@web54012.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <OF5B5E4173.E8E64C36-ON85257450.00542395-85257450.0054CACF@vcu.edu>

Ted,

Could you explain what the federal oral proficiency interview system is? 
When was this established?  And by whom and for whom?

Nancy

*********************************************************
Nancy R. Faux
ESOL Specialist
Virginia Adult Learning Resource Center
Virginia Commonwealth University
3600 W. Broad Street, Suite 669
Richmond, VA 23230-4930
nfaux at vcu.edu
http://www.valrc.org
1-800-237-0178



Mary Jane Jerde <mjjerdems at yahoo.com> 
Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
05/19/2008 08:42 PM
Please respond to
The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>


To
The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
cc

Subject
[Assessment 1324] Re: CASAS vs. BEST






Thanks,

Mary Jane

Ted Klein <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
Mary Jane,
 
I developed the following oral interview for initial placement. The scores 
below for each question are based on part of the federal Oral Proficiency 
Interview (OPI) system. It's quick and it works.
 
Ted
www.tedklein-ESL.com
 
 
ORAL INTERVIEW QUESTIONS TO DETERMINE ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE
 
                                                      Block 2    Ted Klein
 
Questions marked with an asterisk * are mandatory. Of the remaining 
questions, ten should be selected at random. Speech of the interviewer 
will be at normal speed and clarity, with NO exaggeration.
 
1. What is your name please?* 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
2. Where are you from?* -------
 
3. What part of XXXXXXX are you from?-------
 
4. What is your native language? -------
 
5. How long have you been in America? -------
 
6. Do you read English?* -------
 
7. Did you study English in your country? -------
 
8. How long did you study English? -------
 
9. Are you enjoying the U.S.A? -------
 
10. What do you like here? -------
 
11. Is there anything that you don't like? -------
 
12. Have you studied any other languages besides English? -------
 
13. Why do you want to learn English? -------
 
14. How many years of education have you had? -------
 
15. Do you have any hobbies? What are they? -------
 
16. Do you have any American friends to practice English with? -------
 
17. Do you work?  Where? -------
 
18. What are your plans for the future? -------
 
19. Why did you come to America? -------
 
20. Do you have any questions for me? -------
 
 
Mark responses: 0 no answer.   0+ telegraphic/very simple response. 
1 simple, but complete response.  1+ functional and clear response.
2   somewhat elaborate, fairly clear and mostly grammatical response.
 
Interviewees with ten or more answers in the 1+ to 2 range should be ready 
to take a written
proficiency test of listening and reading skills. Non-readers are 
excluded. (ref: Ques. 6)
 
 
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Mary Jane Jerde 
To: The Assessment Discussion List 
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 6:47 PM
Subject: [Assessment 1322] Re: CASAS vs. BEST

Hello All,

Since with BEST Plus the ESL students are scored on comprehension, 
complexity (grammar), and communication (how easily their responses can be 
understood), I think that either BEST or BEST Plus would make the leap to 
another English speaking country fairly easily. Certainly much better than 
most other test instruments like CASAS. 

The questions are for adults on common topics, shopping, neighborhood 
preferences, exercise, daily activities, etc. The occasional pictures are 
fairly generic. 

I think it would be worth a good look. 

It is too bad that the paper BEST is not available. It was great for quick 
placement in ongoing programs with rolling enrollment. 

Mary Jane Jerde
Howard Community College






Bryan Woerner <bwoerner at cal.org> wrote: 
Hello Maria,
 
BEST Plus and BEST Literacy were developed for use with adult English 
language learners who need to use English to function in day-to-day life 
in an English-speaking context in the 50 United States. This means that 
all test items and graphics were developed and included in the tests based 
on cultural assumptions about life in the US. Therefore, the results from 
either test really wouldn't be valid. They also wouldn't suitable test for 
non-American English speakers who first language is English, if I 
understand you correctly. The tests were designed for non-native speakers. 
If, however, a non-native speaker who learned British English came to the 
US and took ESL classes, then he or she could be tested with BEST Plus or 
BEST Literacy.
 
What was known as the "BEST test" or the Basic English Skills Test, is no 
longer published. It was developed in the 1980's and hadn't been updated 
since then. The oral interview was replaced by BEST Plus in 2003 and the 
literacy skills section was updated and became BEST Literacy in 2006. 
Since the BEST test was around for so long, the nomenclature sometimes get 
mixed up. But, like its descendents, it too was only valid within the US 
for the same reasons.
 
And I would suggest to Anthony that he contact the TESOL organization. 
They published a book called ESOL Tests and Testing which is a compilation 
of many different ESL, EFL and ESP assessments.
http://www.tesol.org/s_tesol/sec_document.asp?CID=856&DID=3460
 
Bryan
 
 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On 
Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 5:11 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1318] Re: CASAS vs. BEST

Hi Bryan and Anthony,
A question to you Bryan ? is the BEST then available for folks outside the 
US?  Also, do you believe it?s suitable for English speakers from 
countries other than the US?
Thanks!
<!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
<!--[endif]-->
Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On 
Behalf Of Bryan Woerner
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 2:35 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1317] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
Hello Anthony,
BEST Plus was designed for use with adult English language learners in the 
United States.
Bryan
Adult ESL Assessments
Center for Applied Linguistics

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On 
Behalf Of Anthony Berry
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 8:34 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1315] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
Could someone please tell me how I an have sight of BEST. I have been 
looking for an adaptive, normative, diagnostic test for ages and this 
seems as though it might fit the bill.
 
What flavour of English is it? Yes, you can see that I am of the Queen's 
English brigade!
 
Thanks for any help - btw this would be for research purposes not 
productive use.
 
Anthony Berry
<!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
<!--[endif]-->

Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 04:34:28 -0700
From: mjjerdems at yahoo.com
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1314] Re: CASAS vs. BEST

The BEST is great for assessing the learner's production of English. Its 
additional pluses are that there are not test forms that learners can 
learn it identify and recall easily; the test questions become harder or 
easier depending on how the learner's responses are scored, which 
mitigates differences between assessors; and it would be better able to 
identify small progress than CASAS forms. 

The one major downside is that it takes time and more time as the learners 
progress. A large program simply cannot afford to put the hours into 
testing that BEST Plus requires.

I've used both CASAS and BEST Plus in smaller programs because one 
instrument cannot give a full picture on a learner (Assessment 101), and 
it maximizes the chance to show improvement at post-test. 

Good luck,

Mary Jane Jerde
Howard Community College

"Rodrick Beiler, Ingrid" <Ingrid.RodrickBeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov> 
wrote: 
Hi everyone 
I serve as the coordinator for an adult ESOL program in Montgomery County, 
MD. We offer classes mostly at the beginner level, with some classes at 
literacy and intermediate levels as well. I am fairly new to this field 
and am trying to determine the comparative usefulness of CASAS and BEST 
for assessment of our program. Can anyone comment on how/why their 
organizations might have chosen one over the other?
In case it is helpful for understanding my organization's needs, here is 
some more background information: 
- We serve about 275-300 learners per semester. 
- Many of our learners have a very low educational level. 
- Pre- and post-tests are administered by our instructors during the first 
and last classes of the semester. 
- Placement tests are administered by coordinators at each of our sites in 
one-on-one interviews. 
- We provide 36-48 instructional hours per semester. (I wonder if this 
precludes our using the BEST.) 
- Most of our funding comes from two sources (government and a private 
funder). 
- The cost of standardized assessments is an important factor to us. 
Your advice is much appreciated. 
Thanks, 
Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 
Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 
ESOL Coordinator 
Linkages to Learning 
51 Monroe Street, Suite 1700 
Rockville, MD 20850 
Phone: (240) 777-1110 
Fax: (240) 777-1111 
ingrid.rodrickbeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov 
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to mjjerdems at yahoo.com

Get 5GB of online storage for free! Get it Now! 
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to mjjerdems at yahoo.com


-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to mjjerdems at yahoo.com

 -------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to nfaux at vcu.edu

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From taklein at austin.rr.com  Wed May 21 15:28:17 2008
From: taklein at austin.rr.com (Ted Klein)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 14:28:17 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1327] Re: CASAS vs. BEST
References: <OF5B5E4173.E8E64C36-ON85257450.00542395-85257450.0054CACF@vcu.edu>
Message-ID: <001601c8bb78$d29774f0$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>

Nancy,

I talked about this in the past on this forum, but would be happy to review it. The OPI replaced the old State Department oral exam, the FSI Test, I believe in the early 1980's.  It was developed at the Central Intelligence Agency, because they really needed an accurate measure of foreign language proficiency for some of their employees. From there it went to the Defense Language Institute Foreign Language Center, where they used it as a measure for their U.S. military language students, studying many different languages in Monterrey, California. After that the Defense Language Institute English Language Center at Lackland AFB in San Antonio adapted it for their students, for whom  spoken English was critical, such as air traffic controllers. That's where I became acquainted with it. It is still used as a supplement to their English Comprehension Level (ECL) test, which is a very well designed multiple choice proficiency listening and reading test. The ROTC at the University of Puerto Rico uses both of these tests as  criteria for awarding commissions to their graduates.

The OPI really works much better than any other oral proficiency examination that I've ever seen. The biggest problem with it is that competent interviewers are rare! At one time there was a 40% failure rate in training, both on interview techniques and scoring. It is an art and a science. You can see a good description of the criteria at http://www.dlielc.org/testing/Nprofile.doc  There are eleven levels that can be measured when plus is included on a 0-5 basis. A + score indicates achievement of 60% of the next higher level.  

       Theodore A. (Ted) Klein, Jr.
  Independent Consultant in Language
         and Intercultural Training
              14456 Agarita Road
          Austin, Texas 78734-2009
             Phone:512-266-1801
             taklein at austin.rr.com
            www.tedklein-ESL.com     
             
   
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Nancy R Faux/AC/VCU 
  To: The Assessment Discussion List 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 10:20 AM
  Subject: [Assessment 1326] Re: CASAS vs. BEST



  Ted, 

  Could you explain what the federal oral proficiency interview system is? When was this established?  And by whom and for whom? 

  Nancy 

  *********************************************************
  Nancy R. Faux
  ESOL Specialist
  Virginia Adult Learning Resource Center
  Virginia Commonwealth University
  3600 W. Broad Street, Suite 669
  Richmond, VA 23230-4930
  nfaux at vcu.edu
  http://www.valrc.org
  1-800-237-0178 


        Mary Jane Jerde <mjjerdems at yahoo.com> 
        Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
        05/19/2008 08:42 PM Please respond to
              The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov> 


       To The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>  
              cc  
              Subject [Assessment 1324] Re: CASAS vs. BEST 

              

       



  Thanks,

  Mary Jane

  Ted Klein <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote: 
  Mary Jane, 
    
  I developed the following oral interview for initial placement. The scores below for each question are based on part of the federal Oral Proficiency Interview (OPI) system. It's quick and it works. 
    
  Ted 
  www.tedklein-ESL.com 
    
    
  ORAL INTERVIEW QUESTIONS TO DETERMINE ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE 
    
                                                        Block 2                 Ted Klein 
    
  Questions marked with an asterisk * are mandatory. Of the remaining questions, ten should be selected at random. Speech of the interviewer will be at normal speed and clarity, with NO exaggeration. 
    
  1. What is your name please?* ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 
    
  2. Where are you from?* ------- 
    
  3. What part of XXXXXXX are you from?------- 
    
  4. What is your native language? ------- 
    
  5. How long have you been in America? ------- 
    
  6. Do you read English?* ------- 
    
  7. Did you study English in your country? ------- 
    
  8. How long did you study English? ------- 
    
  9. Are you enjoying the U.S.A? ------- 
    
  10. What do you like here? ------- 
    
  11. Is there anything that you don't like? ------- 
    
  12. Have you studied any other languages besides English? ------- 
    
  13. Why do you want to learn English? ------- 
    
  14. How many years of education have you had? ------- 
    
  15. Do you have any hobbies? What are they? ------- 
    
  16. Do you have any American friends to practice English with? ------- 
    
  17. Do you work?  Where? ------- 
    
  18. What are your plans for the future? ------- 
    
  19. Why did you come to America? ------- 
    
  20. Do you have any questions for me? ------- 
    
    
  Mark responses: 0 no answer.   0+ telegraphic/very simple response. 
  1 simple, but complete response.  1+ functional and clear response. 
  2   somewhat elaborate, fairly clear and mostly grammatical response. 
    
  Interviewees with ten or more answers in the 1+ to 2 range should be ready to take a written 
  proficiency test of listening and reading skills. Non-readers are excluded. (ref: Ques. 6) 
    
    
    
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mary Jane Jerde 
  To: The Assessment Discussion List 
  Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 6:47 PM 
  Subject: [Assessment 1322] Re: CASAS vs. BEST 

  Hello All,

  Since with BEST Plus the ESL students are scored on comprehension, complexity (grammar), and communication (how easily their responses can be understood), I think that either BEST or BEST Plus would make the leap to another English speaking country fairly easily. Certainly much better than most other test instruments like CASAS. 

  The questions are for adults on common topics, shopping, neighborhood preferences, exercise, daily activities, etc. The occasional pictures are fairly generic. 

  I think it would be worth a good look. 

  It is too bad that the paper BEST is not available. It was great for quick placement in ongoing programs with rolling enrollment. 

  Mary Jane Jerde
  Howard Community College






  Bryan Woerner <bwoerner at cal.org> wrote: 
  Hello Maria, 
    
  BEST Plus and BEST Literacy were developed for use with adult English language learners who need to use English to function in day-to-day life in an English-speaking context in the 50 United States. This means that all test items and graphics were developed and included in the tests based on cultural assumptions about life in the US. Therefore, the results from either test really wouldn't be valid. They also wouldn't suitable test for non-American English speakers who first language is English, if I understand you correctly. The tests were designed for non-native speakers. If, however, a non-native speaker who learned British English came to the US and took ESL classes, then he or she could be tested with BEST Plus or BEST Literacy. 
    
  What was known as the "BEST test" or the Basic English Skills Test, is no longer published. It was developed in the 1980's and hadn't been updated since then. The oral interview was replaced by BEST Plus in 2003 and the literacy skills section was updated and became BEST Literacy in 2006. Since the BEST test was around for so long, the nomenclature sometimes get mixed up. But, like its descendents, it too was only valid within the US for the same reasons. 
    
  And I would suggest to Anthony that he contact the TESOL organization. They published a book called ESOL Tests and Testing which is a compilation of many different ESL, EFL and ESP assessments. 
  http://www.tesol.org/s_tesol/sec_document.asp?CID=856&DID=3460 
    
  Bryan 
    
    


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Marie Cora
  Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 5:11 PM
  To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
  Subject: [Assessment 1318] Re: CASAS vs. BEST

  Hi Bryan and Anthony, 
  A question to you Bryan - is the BEST then available for folks outside the US?  Also, do you believe it's suitable for English speakers from countries other than the US? 
  Thanks!
  <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
  <!--[endif]--> 
  Marie Cora 
  Assessment Discussion List Moderator 
  -----Original Message-----
  From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Bryan Woerner
  Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 2:35 PM
  To: The Assessment Discussion List
  Subject: [Assessment 1317] Re: CASAS vs. BEST 
  Hello Anthony, 
  BEST Plus was designed for use with adult English language learners in the United States. 
  Bryan 
  Adult ESL Assessments 
  Center for Applied Linguistics 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Anthony Berry
  Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 8:34 AM
  To: The Assessment Discussion List
  Subject: [Assessment 1315] Re: CASAS vs. BEST 
  Could someone please tell me how I an have sight of BEST. I have been looking for an adaptive, normative, diagnostic test for ages and this seems as though it might fit the bill.

  What flavour of English is it? Yes, you can see that I am of the Queen's English brigade!

  Thanks for any help - btw this would be for research purposes not productive use.

  Anthony Berry
  <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
  <!--[endif]--> 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 04:34:28 -0700
  From: mjjerdems at yahoo.com
  To: assessment at nifl.gov
  Subject: [Assessment 1314] Re: CASAS vs. BEST

  The BEST is great for assessing the learner's production of English. Its additional pluses are that there are not test forms that learners can learn it identify and recall easily; the test questions become harder or easier depending on how the learner's responses are scored, which mitigates differences between assessors; and it would be better able to identify small progress than CASAS forms. 

  The one major downside is that it takes time and more time as the learners progress. A large program simply cannot afford to put the hours into testing that BEST Plus requires.

  I've used both CASAS and BEST Plus in smaller programs because one instrument cannot give a full picture on a learner (Assessment 101), and it maximizes the chance to show improvement at post-test. 

  Good luck,

  Mary Jane Jerde
  Howard Community College

  "Rodrick Beiler, Ingrid" <Ingrid.RodrickBeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov> wrote: 
  Hi everyone 
  I serve as the coordinator for an adult ESOL program in Montgomery County, MD. We offer classes mostly at the beginner level, with some classes at literacy and intermediate levels as well. I am fairly new to this field and am trying to determine the comparative usefulness of CASAS and BEST for assessment of our program. Can anyone comment on how/why their organizations might have chosen one over the other? 
  In case it is helpful for understanding my organization's needs, here is some more background information: 
  - We serve about 275-300 learners per semester. 
  - Many of our learners have a very low educational level. 
  - Pre- and post-tests are administered by our instructors during the first and last classes of the semester. 
  - Placement tests are administered by coordinators at each of our sites in one-on-one interviews. 
  - We provide 36-48 instructional hours per semester. (I wonder if this precludes our using the BEST.) 
  - Most of our funding comes from two sources (government and a private funder). 
  - The cost of standardized assessments is an important factor to us. 
  Your advice is much appreciated. 
  Thanks, 
  Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 
  Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 
  ESOL Coordinator 
  Linkages to Learning 
  51 Monroe Street, Suite 1700 
  Rockville, MD 20850 
  Phone: (240) 777-1110 
  Fax: (240) 777-1111 
  ingrid.rodrickbeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov 
  -------------------------------
  National Institute for Literacy
  Assessment mailing list
  Assessment at nifl.gov
  To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
  Email delivered to mjjerdems at yahoo.com 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  Get 5GB of online storage for free! Get it Now! 
  -------------------------------
  National Institute for Literacy
  Assessment mailing list
  Assessment at nifl.gov
  To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
  Email delivered to mjjerdems at yahoo.com 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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  To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
  Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com 
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  To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
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From kbeall at onlyinternet.net  Wed May 28 12:57:40 2008
From: kbeall at onlyinternet.net (Kaye Beall)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 12:57:40 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1328]  Focus on Basics--New Numeracy Issue
Message-ID: <009d01c8c0e3$f99f1240$020ba8c0@D14J7YD1>

The new issue of "Focus on Basics" (Volume 9, Issue A) is now available at
www.worlded.org.  Published by World Education, the theme is Numeracy.

Articles include: 

-using part-whole thinking in math

-the importance of numeracy in adult basic education

-designing instruction that addresses all of the components of numeracy

-techniques for introducing new types of activities into the math classroom

-the cultural aspects of mathematics

-teaching algebraic thinking in lower level mathematics classes

-TIAN: a professional learning model for ABE math teachers

 

*************************

 

 

Kaye Beall

Project Director

World Education

6760 West Street

Linn Grove, IN 46711

765-717-3942

kaye_beall at worlded.org

www.worlded.org

 

 

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From djrosen at comcast.net  Thu May 29 20:54:56 2008
From: djrosen at comcast.net (David J. Rosen)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 20:54:56 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1329] Implementation of state adult education content
	standards
Message-ID: <A1727992-F6A7-4B0D-ACCB-2FF6B30B4EB0@comcast.net>

Colleagues,

Beginning on Monday, June 9th, and continuing through Friday, June  
20th, on the National Institute for Literacy Special Topics list, we  
will discuss the implementation of state adult education content  
standards. Experts from several states have been invited to talk  
about the opportunities and challenges they have experienced as they  
work with teachers, administrators and others who are developing  
curriculum, and designing and teaching lessons that reflect their  
state's content standards. Our guests include: Miriam Kroeger, from  
Arizona; Raye Nell Spillman, from Louisiana; Karen Lisch Gianninoto,  
from Maryland; Judy Franks, from Ohio; Pam Blundel, from Oklahoma;  
Philip Anderson, from Florida; and Federico Salas, from Texas.

I hope you will join us for this discussion. You will find background  
information on several of our guest experts below.

To subscribe to the discussion, go to:

http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/specialtopics

You can unsubscribe later by going to the same web page or, if you  
prefer, you can stay subscribed for the next discussion.

Please forward this announcement to your colleagues who may be  
interested!

Background on Discussion Guests

Pam Blundell has been involved in Oklahoma's development and  
implementation of content standards since 2002-2003 when the state  
held its first discussions around the possibility of introducing the  
Equipped for the Future (EFF) teaching and learning system to the  
field. Pam was given the task of overseeing the state's first EFF  
pilot project in 2003-2004. During the EFF pilot year, the state  
decided to expand the EFF training and officially adopt EFF content  
standards statewide. At that time, Pam was asked to coordinate this  
long-term process. Pam has continued to be directly involved in the  
implementation and oversight of the integration of content standards  
into the adult education classroom. This process has involved the  
development of new tools and training processes and most recently,  
leading the state's Standards-In-Action (SIA) team. Prior to coming  
to the state, Pam worked as an adult education teacher integrating  
EFF standards into instruction.

Judy Franks is currently on staff at the Ohio Literacy Resource  
Center as a Literacy Projects Coordinator. She was involved  
originally with the Equipped for the Future (EFF) Standards-based  
System Reform Initiative, coordinating the Ohio Research Field Sites  
and training as a Certified State Facilitator. Judy has had  
experience developing and working with the standards at the program,  
state, and national levels. As a veteran instructor of training and  
development courses, Judy's background in adult basic education since  
1992 includes family literacy, GED classroom instruction and the  
development of a workforce training program.

Karen Lisch Gianninoto's involvement with the Maryland Content  
Standards for Adults ESL/ESOL began when she was working part-time as  
an ESL instructor. She "was one of the teachers complaining from the  
field that we needed standards". As a full time high school teacher,  
she knew how helpful standards were in guiding instruction. Not long  
after, she was appointed to the ESL Workgroup that developed the  
content standards document.

Four years ago, she became the ESL Specialist for the Maryland State  
Department of Education. When she took the position, she was  
"grateful the content standards were finished. Little did I know that  
my work was just beginning. Over the past four years, the content  
standards have been revised three times, the ESL content standards  
have been implemented in all of Maryland's programs, state trainers  
have completed a training process, and a training manual was  
completed. Yet, there is more to learn about standards. Maryland has  
been most fortunate to participate in the CAELA and SIA Projects  
funded through OVAE. These projects have helped Maryland refine our  
training and provided instructors with the tools to understand  
content standards."

Miriam Kroeger has been involved in Adult Education as a volunteer,  
teacher, coordinator, administrator and specialist since 1972 and in  
Arizona since 1978. She has taught adult English learners and adults  
studying for their secondary school credential at a variety of  
locations including elementary and secondary schools, community  
colleges, jails, and prisons; she works with K-12 and adult  
educators, and has visited teachers throughout the state of Arizona.  
Miriam has served on state, regional and national committees; on the  
boards of the Arizona Association for Lifelong Learning, the Mountain  
Plains Adult Education Association and Arizona Teachers of English to  
Speakers of Other Languages. She has been on national working groups  
involved with adult education standards and teacher development and  
was an original team member in the development and implementation of  
Arizona's Standards for Adult Learners. She was also a member of the  
Standards Specialist/Resource Teachers team that assisted programs  
and instructors in the implementation of the standards. As an  
Education Program Specialist in the Arizona Department of Education,  
Adult Education Services unit during the past six years, one of her  
responsibilities was to spearhead the revisions to the Reading,  
Writing, Math, Science, Social Studies and ELAA (ESOL) Arizona Adult  
Education Standards. These revisions were published in December 2007,  
and the training process in understanding and utilizing the standards  
continues.

Raye Nell D. Spillman has worked in the Louisiana State Department of  
Education, Office of School and Community Support, Adult and Family  
Literacy Services for four years. Ms. Spillman holds an undergraduate  
degree from Louisiana State University in the field of education. She  
has taught in the K-12 public education system and served on numerous  
committees to advance the education of children and adults. After the  
approval and adoption of The Louisiana Adult Education Content  
Standards in October 2006, Ms. Spillman was instrumental in  
introducing the standards to adult education instructors across the  
state in collaboration with the Louisiana Association for Public,  
Community and Adult Education. The following summer, Louisiana  
applied for and was one of six states accepted to participate in  
OVAE's Standards-in-Action (SIA) project. Ms. Spillman headed the  
Louisiana team who accepted their charge to pilot test training  
materials for implementing adult education standards use in the  
classroom. Again this year, Ms. Spillman and the Louisiana team are  
looking forward to participating in Part 2 of the Standards-in-Action  
project.

David J. Rosen
National Institute for Literacy
Special Topics Discussion Moderator
Djrosen at comcast.net








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From djrosen at comcast.net  Sat Jun  7 18:16:07 2008
From: djrosen at comcast.net (David J. Rosen)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 18:16:07 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1330] Adult Education Content Standards Discussion
	begins Monday
Message-ID: <400CCBA2-EDA0-47AF-A425-C601C0A8AB3E@comcast.net>

Colleagues,

Beginning Monday, June 9th, and continuing through Friday, June 20th,  
on the National Institute for Literacy Special Topics list, we will  
discuss the implementation of state adult education content  
standards. Experts from several states will talk about the  
opportunities and challenges they have experienced as they work with  
teachers, administrators and others who are developing curriculum,  
and designing and teaching lessons that reflect their state's content  
standards. Our guests include: Miriam Kroeger, from Arizona; Raye  
Nell Spillman, from Louisiana; Karen Lisch Gianninoto, from Maryland;  
Judy Franks, from Ohio; Pam Blundel, from Oklahoma; Philip Anderson,  
from Florida; and Federico Salas, from Texas. You will find  
background information on all of our guest experts below. I hope you  
will join us for this discussion. I hope you will also forward this  
announcement to your colleagues who may be interested!

To subscribe to the discussion, go to:

http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/specialtopics

You can unsubscribe later by going to the same web page or, if you  
prefer, you can stay subscribed for the next discussion.

Adult Education Content Standards Warehouse

Sponsored by the U.S. Department of Education, the Adult Education  
Content Standards Warehouse "provides access to materials for  
developing, aligning, and implementing adult education content  
standards in the areas of English language acquisition, mathematics,  
and reading. On this site you can find content standards from a  
variety of states and organizations; learn about the process of  
developing standards in A Process Guide for Establishing State Adult  
Education Content Standards; and find field resources on professional  
development and national and international standards." The web site  
address is:

http://www.adultedcontentstandards.ed.gov/


Background on Discussion Guests

Philip Anderson started his English teaching career in 1974 as a  
Peace Corps volunteer in the Dominican Republic.  English teaching  
was a sideline to his main project of helping farmers groups with pig  
raising projects.  After Peace Corps, Phil continued to live in the  
Dominican Republic as a pastor for small church groups, and he  
continued to teach English to adults who wanted to emigrate to the  
U.S.  In 1986, he returned to the states to finish college at UC  
Davis.  With a MS in community development, Phil went to Haiti in  
1991.  There, Phil taught woodworking at a vocational school, taught  
English, managed a large soil conservation project (not all at the  
same time)!  In 1995, Phil returned to the states, and became a part- 
time adult ESOL instructor at night for Palm Beach county in Belle  
Glade, Florida.  In 1998, he joined the adult ESOL program at South  
Florida Community College, where he was department chair from  
2000-2004.  Since 2004, Phil has worked at the Florida Department of  
Education.  There Phil manages EL Civics state leadership grants and  
provides technical assistance trainings to adult ESOL instructors  
statewide.

Pam Blundell has been involved in Oklahoma's development and  
implementation of content standards since 2002-2003 when the state  
held its first discussions around the possibility of introducing the  
Equipped for the Future (EFF) teaching and learning system to the  
field. Pam was given the task of overseeing the state's first EFF  
pilot project in 2003-2004. During the EFF pilot year, the state  
decided to expand the EFF training and officially adopt EFF content  
standards statewide. At that time, Pam was asked to coordinate this  
long-term process. Pam has continued to be directly involved in the  
implementation and oversight of the integration of content standards  
into the adult education classroom. This process has involved the  
development of new tools and training processes and most recently,  
leading the state's Standards-In-Action (SIA) team. Prior to coming  
to the state, Pam worked as an adult education teacher integrating  
EFF standards into instruction.

Judy Franks is currently on staff at the Ohio Literacy Resource  
Center as a Literacy Projects Coordinator. She was involved  
originally with the Equipped for the Future (EFF) Standards-based  
System Reform Initiative, coordinating the Ohio Research Field Sites  
and training as a Certified State Facilitator. Judy has had  
experience developing and working with the standards at the program,  
state, and national levels. As a veteran instructor of training and  
development courses, Judy's background in adult basic education since  
1992 includes family literacy, GED classroom instruction and the  
development of a workforce training program.

Karen Lisch Gianninoto's involvement with the Maryland Content  
Standards for Adults ESL/ESOL began when she was working part-time as  
an ESL instructor. She "was one of the teachers complaining from the  
field that we needed standards". As a full time high school teacher,  
she knew how helpful standards were in guiding instruction. Not long  
after, she was appointed to the ESL Workgroup that developed the  
content standards document.

Four years ago, she became the ESL Specialist for the Maryland State  
Department of Education. When she took the position, she was  
"grateful the content standards were finished. Little did I know that  
my work was just beginning. Over the past four years, the content  
standards have been revised three times, the ESL content standards  
have been implemented in all of Maryland's programs, state trainers  
have completed a training process, and a training manual was  
completed. Yet, there is more to learn about standards. Maryland has  
been most fortunate to participate in the CAELA and SIA Projects  
funded through OVAE. These projects have helped Maryland refine our  
training and provided instructors with the tools to understand  
content standards."

Miriam Kroeger has been involved in Adult Education as a volunteer,  
teacher, coordinator, administrator and specialist since 1972 and in  
Arizona since 1978. She has taught adult English learners and adults  
studying for their secondary school credential at a variety of  
locations including elementary and secondary schools, community  
colleges, jails, and prisons; she works with K-12 and adult  
educators, and has visited teachers throughout the state of Arizona.  
Miriam has served on state, regional and national committees; on the  
boards of the Arizona Association for Lifelong Learning, the Mountain  
Plains Adult Education Association and Arizona Teachers of English to  
Speakers of Other Languages. She has been on national working groups  
involved with adult education standards and teacher development and  
was an original team member in the development and implementation of  
Arizona's Standards for Adult Learners. She was also a member of the  
Standards Specialist/Resource Teachers team that assisted programs  
and instructors in the implementation of the standards. As an  
Education Program Specialist in the Arizona Department of Education,  
Adult Education Services unit during the past six years, one of her  
responsibilities was to spearhead the revisions to the Reading,  
Writing, Math, Science, Social Studies and ELAA (ESOL) Arizona Adult  
Education Standards. These revisions were published in December 2007,  
and the training process in understanding and utilizing the standards  
continues.

Federico Salas-Isnardi is Assistant State Director of Adult Education  
in Texas.  He oversees the Professional Development System in the  
state.  He has worked for 20 years in the field of adult Education as  
an ESL and GED instructor, professional developer, curriculum writer,  
and program administrator.  He has trained adult educators for over  
18 years on topics ranging from language acquisition to  
individualized professional development planning, and from cross- 
cultural communication and multicultural awareness to educational  
leadership.

Between 2004 and 2007, Federico represented the state office of adult  
education in the AE Content Standards Project team that adopted the  
standards and wrote the benchmarks for Texas AE Content Standards  
document.  In that capacity he worked with the project staff and  
observed the work of the standards writers.  He also helped  
articulate the vision of the state in regards to the adoption  
process.  During the first two years of the project, Federico was the  
state?s liaison to the National Adult Education Content Standards  
Consortium.

Raye Nell D. Spillman has worked in the Louisiana State Department of  
Education, Office of School and Community Support, Adult and Family  
Literacy Services for four years. Ms. Spillman holds an undergraduate  
degree from Louisiana State University in the field of education. She  
has taught in the K-12 public education system and served on numerous  
committees to advance the education of children and adults. After the  
approval and adoption of The Louisiana Adult Education Content  
Standards in October 2006, Ms. Spillman was instrumental in  
introducing the standards to adult education instructors across the  
state in collaboration with the Louisiana Association for Public,  
Community and Adult Education. The following summer, Louisiana  
applied for and was one of six states accepted to participate in  
OVAE's Standards-in-Action (SIA) project. Ms. Spillman headed the  
Louisiana team who accepted their charge to pilot test training  
materials for implementing adult education standards use in the  
classroom. Again this year, Ms. Spillman and the Louisiana team are  
looking forward to participating in Part 2 of the Standards-in-Action  
project.

David J. Rosen
National Institute for Literacy
Special Topics Discussion Moderator
Djrosen at comcast.net




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From tsticht at znet.com  Sun Jun  8 17:45:18 2008
From: tsticht at znet.com (tsticht at znet.com)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 14:45:18 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1331]  Tests vs. Self Assessments of Literacy
Message-ID: <1212961518.484c52ee5a546@webmail.znet.net>

June 8, 2008

The Great Adult Literacy Skills Debate: Tests vs. Self Assessments

Tom Sticht
International Consultant in Adult Education

In 2006, Inge Henningsen of the Department of Statistics in the University
of Copenhagen presented a paper entitled: "Adults just don't know how
stupid they are: Dubious statistics in studies of adult literacy and
numeracy."
(online at www.alm online.org/ALM13/programma%20alm13.pdf ).

In this paper Henningsen comments on the many problems, conceptual,
methodological, and statistical, with the International Adult Literacy
Survey (IALS) of the mid-1990s and the Adult Literacy and Lifeskills (ALL)
survey of 2003-06. One of the major factors in these assessments that
Henningsen addresses is the finding in various nations of a wide gap
between the literacy and numeracy
skills of adults when the literacy test scores are taken as indicators of
people's skill, and the skills that adults assign to themselves when asked
to self-assess their literacy or numeracy skills.

Though Henningsen focuses primarily on the data from these international
adult literacy surveys for Denmark, similar gaps are found in various other
nations. For instance, in Australia, based on the IALS test scores the
report writers declared some 46 percent of adults to possess low literacy
skills, whereas only 4 percent of the adults themselves thought they had
low skills.

In Canada and the United States, similar discrepancies were found, with 42
percent of Canadians and 47 percent of U.S. adults being declared low in
literacy based on the test scores, while only 5 percent of Canadian and 7
percent of U.S. adults rated their literacy low.

In New Zealand, using just the numeracy data from the ALL, 51 percent of
adults were declared low in numeracy based on test scores, while only 19
percent rated their numeracy skills as low. Finally, in England, using a
special test developed for the Skills for Life strategy in that nation, 16
percent of adults were declared low in literacy based on their test scores
but only 4 percent thought they had low test scores.

Henningsen  noted that the discrepancy between the self assessed proficiency
and the conclusions based on test scores is not treated seriously in the
reports and asks, "Is it ethically defensible to disregard the opinions and
statements of the adults regarding their own skills and "narrate" big groups
of adults in the labour market as excluded from society and lacking in basic
skills." Answering this rhetorical question, Henningsen goes on to say, "I
find it disturbing that the reports send the message that the experiences
and assessments of the test persons themselves have no validity compared to
the test results. Is it a viable for the adult education community to let
surveys convey the impression that "adults just don't know how stupid they
are."?

One important consequence of adults' thinking that their literacy and
numeracy skills are pretty good is that they will choose to not participate
in language, literacy, and numeracy (LLN) provision to improve their skills.
For instance, from various sources I can make rough estimates of the
percentage of adults that the government says are in need of LLN provision
that actually take part in LLN provision in a given year. In  Australia the
percentage of those the governments say are in need of LLN provision who
actually enroll in LLN provision in a given year is around 4%, in Canada
10%, England 5%, New Zealand 11%, and the U.S. 3%. These (admittedly
roughly estimated) percentages of participation are more in line with the
self assessed needs of adults than the needs based on the paper and pencil
tests.

In the United States, the National Center for Education Statistics reports
in the 2008 Conditions of Education that the percentages of adults aged 16
or older who participated in adult education activities consisting of basic
skills, English as a second language, or apprenticeships in 1995, 1999, 2001
and 2005 were 3, 4, 4, and 3 percent respectively. Without the category of
"apprenticeships" the percentages would be even lower. These low
percentages of self reported participation in LLN are again more in line
with the self assessments of adults regarding their literacy and numeracy
skills than with the percentages declared to be "at risk" for low literacy
based on the adult literacy survey tests.

The large discrepancies between the percentages of adults needing basic
skills education as given by governments based on the international adult
literacy surveys, and the much smaller percentages of adults who perceive
their literacy and numeracy skills to be so low that they are unable to
progress in the societies in which they live pose problems for adult
education. Some have suggested that adults may be too embarrassed to admit
that they have a literacy or numeracy problem and that is why there is a
large discrepancy between the adults' test scores and their self
assessments of literacy. If this is so, then research is needed to
establish that this is so. In general, major efforts are needed to better
understand the genuine needs of adults for LLN provision, what sorts of
educational programs would best meet these needs,  and the sorts of
activities that are needed to let
adults understand the educational opportunities available to them.


Thomas G. Sticht
International Consultant in Adult Education
2062 Valley View Blvd.
El Cajon, CA 92019-2059
Tel/fax: (619)444-9595,
Email tsticht at aznet.net






From aberryesq at hotmail.co.uk  Mon Jun  9 08:27:41 2008
From: aberryesq at hotmail.co.uk (Anthony Berry)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 13:27:41 +0100
Subject: [Assessment 1332] Re: Tests vs. Self Assessments of Literacy
In-Reply-To: <1212961518.484c52ee5a546@webmail.znet.net>
References: <1212961518.484c52ee5a546@webmail.znet.net>
Message-ID: <BAY143-W16AA1409364223517E1A92EAB00@phx.gbl>


Tom
 
Unfortunately, the link to Inge Henningsen's document does not work. Any ideas?
 
Anthony Berry> Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 14:45:18 -0700> From: tsticht at znet.com> To: assessment at nifl.gov> Subject: [Assessment 1331] Tests vs. Self Assessments of Literacy> > June 8, 2008> > The Great Adult Literacy Skills Debate: Tests vs. Self Assessments> > Tom Sticht> International Consultant in Adult Education> > In 2006, Inge Henningsen of the Department of Statistics in the University> of Copenhagen presented a paper entitled: "Adults just don't know how> stupid they are: Dubious statistics in studies of adult literacy and> numeracy."> (online at www.alm online.org/ALM13/programma%20alm13.pdf ).> > In this paper Henningsen comments on the many problems, conceptual,> methodological, and statistical, with the International Adult Literacy> Survey (IALS) of the mid-1990s and the Adult Literacy and Lifeskills (ALL)> survey of 2003-06. One of the major factors in these assessments that> Henningsen addresses is the finding in various nations of a wide gap> between the literacy and numeracy> skills of adults when the literacy test scores are taken as indicators of> people's skill, and the skills that adults assign to themselves when asked> to self-assess their literacy or numeracy skills.> > Though Henningsen focuses primarily on the data from these international> adult literacy surveys for Denmark, similar gaps are found in various other> nations. For instance, in Australia, based on the IALS test scores the> report writers declared some 46 percent of adults to possess low literacy> skills, whereas only 4 percent of the adults themselves thought they had> low skills.> > In Canada and the United States, similar discrepancies were found, with 42> percent of Canadians and 47 percent of U.S. adults being declared low in> literacy based on the test scores, while only 5 percent of Canadian and 7> percent of U.S. adults rated their literacy low.> > In New Zealand, using just the numeracy data from the ALL, 51 percent of> adults were declared low in numeracy based on test scores, while only 19> percent rated their numeracy skills as low. Finally, in England, using a> special test developed for the Skills for Life strategy in that nation, 16> percent of adults were declared low in literacy based on their test scores> but only 4 percent thought they had low test scores.> > Henningsen noted that the discrepancy between the self assessed proficiency> and the conclusions based on test scores is not treated seriously in the> reports and asks, "Is it ethically defensible to disregard the opinions and> statements of the adults regarding their own skills and "narrate" big groups> of adults in the labour market as excluded from society and lacking in basic> skills." Answering this rhetorical question, Henningsen goes on to say, "I> find it disturbing that the reports send the message that the experiences> and assessments of the test persons themselves have no validity compared to> the test results. Is it a viable for the adult education community to let> surveys convey the impression that "adults just don't know how stupid they> are."?> > One important consequence of adults' thinking that their literacy and> numeracy skills are pretty good is that they will choose to not participate> in language, literacy, and numeracy (LLN) provision to improve their skills.> For instance, from various sources I can make rough estimates of the> percentage of adults that the government says are in need of LLN provision> that actually take part in LLN provision in a given year. In Australia the> percentage of those the governments say are in need of LLN provision who> actually enroll in LLN provision in a given year is around 4%, in Canada> 10%, England 5%, New Zealand 11%, and the U.S. 3%. These (admittedly> roughly estimated) percentages of participation are more in line with the> self assessed needs of adults than the needs based on the paper and pencil> tests.> > In the United States, the National Center for Education Statistics reports> in the 2008 Conditions of Education that the percentages of adults aged 16> or older who participated in adult education activities consisting of basic> skills, English as a second language, or apprenticeships in 1995, 1999, 2001> and 2005 were 3, 4, 4, and 3 percent respectively. Without the category of> "apprenticeships" the percentages would be even lower. These low> percentages of self reported participation in LLN are again more in line> with the self assessments of adults regarding their literacy and numeracy> skills than with the percentages declared to be "at risk" for low literacy> based on the adult literacy survey tests.> > The large discrepancies between the percentages of adults needing basic> skills education as given by governments based on the international adult> literacy surveys, and the much smaller percentages of adults who perceive> their literacy and numeracy skills to be so low that they are unable to> progress in the societies in which they live pose problems for adult> education. Some have suggested that adults may be too embarrassed to admit> that they have a literacy or numeracy problem and that is why there is a> large discrepancy between the adults' test scores and their self> assessments of literacy. If this is so, then research is needed to> establish that this is so. In general, major efforts are needed to better> understand the genuine needs of adults for LLN provision, what sorts of> educational programs would best meet these needs, and the sorts of> activities that are needed to let> adults understand the educational opportunities available to them.> > > Thomas G. Sticht> International Consultant in Adult Education> 2062 Valley View Blvd.> El Cajon, CA 92019-2059> Tel/fax: (619)444-9595,> Email tsticht at aznet.net> > > > > -------------------------------> National Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> Assessment at nifl.gov> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email delivered to aberryesq at hotmail.co.uk
_________________________________________________________________

http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl0010000009ukm/direct/01/
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From djrosen at comcast.net  Mon Jun  9 09:26:30 2008
From: djrosen at comcast.net (David J. Rosen)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 09:26:30 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1333] Re: Tests vs. Self Assessments of Literacy
In-Reply-To: <1212961518.484c52ee5a546@webmail.znet.net>
References: <1212961518.484c52ee5a546@webmail.znet.net>
Message-ID: <D67F0F58-2420-4786-9437-74F6235DC0D9@comcast.net>

Tom, and others,

Thank you for pointing out the Henningsen research and asking for  
additional research on adults' perceptions of their own literacy and  
numeracy skills and the discrepancy between the NALS, NAAL, IALS, ALL  
and adults' own perceptions.  I would like to raise another set of  
questions to consider about adult literacy and numeracy needs  
assessments:

Why do countries assess literacy and numeracy need? What have they  
learned? What is the added value of these assessments to low-literacy  
or low-numeracy residents? To their governments and societies? Have  
the data had an impact on policy (yet)? What has been the "return on  
investment" for national/international needs assessments of adult  
literacy and numeracy?

Why are we measuring need but not demand? Even if 40-50% of a  
population is in need, we can be certain that 40-50% will not be  
interested in getting education services to address the need. What  
percent or number of people see that they have basic skills needs --  
and want to pursue classes, tutorials or online learning to address  
it? Would that be a more useful figure for public policy decisions  
than needs data?  Some states have begun to count the number of  
people who want classes but are put on waiting lists. This is one  
measure of demand. Should these states be supported to improve/refine  
their data collecting and reporting so we can have confidence in this  
measure, so it can be used for decision making? Should we be looking  
at other measures of demand? If so, what?

For example, in public transportation I understand that it is common  
to do "latent demand" studies, that is, to survey people about  
whether if a service were offered or extended they would take  
advantage of it? ("If the #49 bus hour schedule were extended to  
midnight instead of 11:00 PM would you use it at that time?") Should  
we do latent demand studies in adult education? ("If English classes  
-- or GED Prep -- were offered on Saturday mornings would you  
attend?") If so, should we do these studies systematically?

Meanwhile, one thing we know for sure from the long waiting lists in  
many states for English Language classes: there is a big demand for  
these services, and the public sector has not come close to meeting  
the actual demand, not to mention potential or latent demand for  
these services. Perhaps we should work on addressing the actual  
demand staring us in the face and worry about measuring latent demand  
-- and need -- later.

David J. Rosen
djrosen at comcast.net


On Jun 8, 2008, at 5:45 PM, tsticht at znet.com wrote:

> June 8, 2008
>
> The Great Adult Literacy Skills Debate: Tests vs. Self Assessments
>
> Tom Sticht
> International Consultant in Adult Education
>
> In 2006, Inge Henningsen of the Department of Statistics in the  
> University
> of Copenhagen presented a paper entitled: "Adults just don't know how
> stupid they are: Dubious statistics in studies of adult literacy and
> numeracy."
> (online at www.alm online.org/ALM13/programma%20alm13.pdf ).
>
> In this paper Henningsen comments on the many problems, conceptual,
> methodological, and statistical, with the International Adult Literacy
> Survey (IALS) of the mid-1990s and the Adult Literacy and  
> Lifeskills (ALL)
> survey of 2003-06. One of the major factors in these assessments that
> Henningsen addresses is the finding in various nations of a wide gap
> between the literacy and numeracy
> skills of adults when the literacy test scores are taken as  
> indicators of
> people's skill, and the skills that adults assign to themselves  
> when asked
> to self-assess their literacy or numeracy skills.
>
> Though Henningsen focuses primarily on the data from these  
> international
> adult literacy surveys for Denmark, similar gaps are found in  
> various other
> nations. For instance, in Australia, based on the IALS test scores the
> report writers declared some 46 percent of adults to possess low  
> literacy
> skills, whereas only 4 percent of the adults themselves thought  
> they had
> low skills.
>
> In Canada and the United States, similar discrepancies were found,  
> with 42
> percent of Canadians and 47 percent of U.S. adults being declared  
> low in
> literacy based on the test scores, while only 5 percent of Canadian  
> and 7
> percent of U.S. adults rated their literacy low.
>
> In New Zealand, using just the numeracy data from the ALL, 51  
> percent of
> adults were declared low in numeracy based on test scores, while  
> only 19
> percent rated their numeracy skills as low. Finally, in England,  
> using a
> special test developed for the Skills for Life strategy in that  
> nation, 16
> percent of adults were declared low in literacy based on their test  
> scores
> but only 4 percent thought they had low test scores.
>
> Henningsen  noted that the discrepancy between the self assessed  
> proficiency
> and the conclusions based on test scores is not treated seriously  
> in the
> reports and asks, "Is it ethically defensible to disregard the  
> opinions and
> statements of the adults regarding their own skills and "narrate"  
> big groups
> of adults in the labour market as excluded from society and lacking  
> in basic
> skills." Answering this rhetorical question, Henningsen goes on to  
> say, "I
> find it disturbing that the reports send the message that the  
> experiences
> and assessments of the test persons themselves have no validity  
> compared to
> the test results. Is it a viable for the adult education community  
> to let
> surveys convey the impression that "adults just don't know how  
> stupid they
> are."?
>
> One important consequence of adults' thinking that their literacy and
> numeracy skills are pretty good is that they will choose to not  
> participate
> in language, literacy, and numeracy (LLN) provision to improve  
> their skills.
> For instance, from various sources I can make rough estimates of the
> percentage of adults that the government says are in need of LLN  
> provision
> that actually take part in LLN provision in a given year. In   
> Australia the
> percentage of those the governments say are in need of LLN  
> provision who
> actually enroll in LLN provision in a given year is around 4%, in  
> Canada
> 10%, England 5%, New Zealand 11%, and the U.S. 3%. These (admittedly
> roughly estimated) percentages of participation are more in line  
> with the
> self assessed needs of adults than the needs based on the paper and  
> pencil
> tests.
>
> In the United States, the National Center for Education Statistics  
> reports
> in the 2008 Conditions of Education that the percentages of adults  
> aged 16
> or older who participated in adult education activities consisting  
> of basic
> skills, English as a second language, or apprenticeships in 1995,  
> 1999, 2001
> and 2005 were 3, 4, 4, and 3 percent respectively. Without the  
> category of
> "apprenticeships" the percentages would be even lower. These low
> percentages of self reported participation in LLN are again more in  
> line
> with the self assessments of adults regarding their literacy and  
> numeracy
> skills than with the percentages declared to be "at risk" for low  
> literacy
> based on the adult literacy survey tests.
>
> The large discrepancies between the percentages of adults needing  
> basic
> skills education as given by governments based on the international  
> adult
> literacy surveys, and the much smaller percentages of adults who  
> perceive
> their literacy and numeracy skills to be so low that they are  
> unable to
> progress in the societies in which they live pose problems for adult
> education. Some have suggested that adults may be too embarrassed  
> to admit
> that they have a literacy or numeracy problem and that is why there  
> is a
> large discrepancy between the adults' test scores and their self
> assessments of literacy. If this is so, then research is needed to
> establish that this is so. In general, major efforts are needed to  
> better
> understand the genuine needs of adults for LLN provision, what  
> sorts of
> educational programs would best meet these needs,  and the sorts of
> activities that are needed to let
> adults understand the educational opportunities available to them.
>
>
> Thomas G. Sticht
> International Consultant in Adult Education
> 2062 Valley View Blvd.
> El Cajon, CA 92019-2059
> Tel/fax: (619)444-9595,
> Email tsticht at aznet.net
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to djrosen at comcast.net





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From tsticht at znet.com  Mon Jun  9 10:54:00 2008
From: tsticht at znet.com (tsticht at znet.com)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 07:54:00 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1333] Re: Tests vs. Self-assessments in Adult Literacy
Message-ID: <1213023240.484d440825176@webmail.znet.net>

Anthony and others: the following link leads to Inge's paper for
downloading. I left a dash out of my earlier reference to this link :(
Tom Sticht

www.alm-online.org/ALM13/programma%20alm13.pdf


From tsticht at znet.com  Mon Jun  9 14:12:42 2008
From: tsticht at znet.com (tsticht at znet.com)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:12:42 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1334] Re: Tests vs. Self Assessments of Literacy
Message-ID: <1213035162.484d729a546f5@webmail.znet.net>

David: Regarding your questions about adult literacy (L) and numeracy (N)
needs, I have posted your questions and my answers below.

Question: Why do countries assess literacy (L) and numeracy (N) need?

Answer: To find out how many adults have poor LN abilities and who might,
therefore, benefit from education to improve their skills. This may lead to
policies providing for education provision to meet the need for LN
education.

Question: What have they learned?

Answer: Based on standardized tests of literacy (L) and numeracy (N) they
have learned that LN skills are distributed in the adult population from
low to high, particularly if the tests are designed to create such a
distribution (resembling to some extent the familiar bell curve). They have
also learned that most adults do not think they have major problems with
literacy and numeracy, though more, primarily immigrants,  think they could
use better English language skills. They have also learned about a number of
correlations with test scores, e.g., unemployment, family background, etc.


Question: What is the added value of these assessments to low-literacy  or
low-numeracy residents?

Answer: This is hard to say. In England the assessments added more to those
with medium to higher LN skills as the government moved to increase the
numbers of adults with educational qualifications, similar to passing one
or more of the GED tests in the U.S. and Canada. In the U.S. following the
NALS of 1993 and the implementation of the National Reporting System in
1998, then numbers of enrollees in the Adult Education and Literacy System,
i.e., the programs funded in part through the Workforce Investment Act,
Title 2, fell from over 4 million per year to around 2.6 million in 2005,
the last date for which I have seen data. In England latest reports are
that adult education in further education courses have dropped by around
1.5 million in the last few years, though this does not exactly focus on
those with low LN.

Questions: What is the added value of these assessments to their governments
and societies? Have the data had an impact on policy (yet)? What has been
the "return on investment" for national/international needs assessments of
adult literacy and numeracy?

Answer: Again, these are difficult to answer questions. The added value to
governments and societies has not been reported as far as I know. The data
have had an impact on policies for adult LLN provision in Australia and
Canada to less degree than in England and New Zealand and has had very
little impact on adult LLN policies at the federal level in the U.S., if by
policy one refers to added investment in the AELS.  The NALS data has had a
bit more impact on funding policies in various states I believe. No "return
on investment" for assessments has been calculated for the nations I have
studied.

Question: Why are we measuring need but not demand?

Answer: In my 1998 paper on Beyond 2000: future directions for adult
education, I provided data showing that "demand" or "need" as indicated by
enrollments, had increased by about 100,000 a year from 1966 to reach a
level of some 4 million in 1998. I thought this illustrated the value of
the AELS and expected that with increased resources the growth would
continue up to 5 million or more. This would provide a strong basis for
arguing for increased funding for the AELS. But the imposition of the NRS
accountability requirements, with heavy demands on testing and data
collection, led to a precipitous drop in enrollments of over 1.5 million
which persists up to the present. I am all in favor of making a
demand-based argument for AELS support and enrollment data have served that
purpose in the past.

Questions: What percent or number of people see that they have basic skills
needs -- and want to pursue classes, tutorials or online learning to
address
it? Would that be a more useful figure for public policy decisions
than needs data?

Answer: The percent of people who see that they have basic skills needs and
want to pursue LN education IS a type of "needs" data. The question should
be: is this a better indicator of needs than the NAAL or similar national
standardized tests distributions of scores.  I think it would be a more
useful figure for public policy decisions than NAAL-type assessments which
are subject to many, many arbitrary decisions in their construction of test
score distributions and more such decisions in deciding at which level or
levels the statements of "need" should fall.  Many have used the present
NAAL levels of Basic and Below Basic to declare some 93 million adults
incapable of meeting their daily needs for work , living, and health
despite a complete lack of any basis for defining the levels using these
terms and for setting societal incompetence at these levels. Different
terms were used to refer to the earlier NALS levels, illustrating the
arbitrary nature of these level names, and the NALS used different
statistical data for making literacy levels than the NAAL, again
illustrating the arbitrary nature of the test development and
interpretation.

Questions: Some states have begun to count the number of  people who want
classes but are put on waiting lists. This is one  measure of demand.
Should these states be supported to improve/refine  their data collecting
and reporting so we can have confidence in this  measure, so it can be used
for decision making? Should we be looking  at other measures of demand? If
so, what?
Should we do latent demand studies in adult education? ("If English classes
or GED Prep -- were offered on Saturday mornings would you  attend?") If so,
should we do these studies systematically? Perhaps we should work on
addressing the actual demand staring us in the face and worry about
measuring latent demand -- and need -- later.

Answer: National, state and local needs and wants surveys asking people
about their skills needs and wants, using direct questioning and "latent
needs" questioning, seem like a good idea to me. There should be some
systematic studies along these lines and some repeated local needs/wants
assessments from time to time to reach the local folks would be useful.  I
think that some adult educators  should work on addressing the actual local
demand for provision right now, while others, perhaps those mostly committed
to research,  might work on measuring directly stated and latent needs for
policy making at state and national levels. I have demonstrated how this
might be accomplished using telephone surveys in the U.S. and such surveys
have also been used in England and Canada.

Tom Sticht





From taklein at austin.rr.com  Mon Jun  9 15:55:16 2008
From: taklein at austin.rr.com (Ted Klein)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 14:55:16 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1335] Re: Tests vs. Self Assessments of Literacy
References: <1212961518.484c52ee5a546@webmail.znet.net>
	<D67F0F58-2420-4786-9437-74F6235DC0D9@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <001e01c8ca6a$bcfcd710$0202a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>

The fact is that WE used to be pretty good. What went wrong??  Maybe Education Departments?

Ted    www.tedklein-ESL.com

     

 1895 Eighth Grade Final Exam 

 

 

      Remember when our grandparents, great-grandparents, and such stated that they only had an 8th grade education? Well, check this out. - - - 

 

      This is the eighth-grade final exam from 1895 in Salina, KS, USA. It was taken from the original document on file at the Smokey Valley Genealogical Society and Library in Salina, KS, and reprinted by the Salina Journal. 

 

      8th GRADE FINAL EXAM

 

 

      Grammar (Time, one hour) 

 

      1. Give nine rules for the use of Capital Letters. 

 

      2. Name the Parts of Speech and define those that have no Modifications.

 

      3. Define Verse, Stanza and Paragraph.

 

      4. What are the Principal Parts of a verb? Give Principal Parts of. Lie, lay and run 

 

      5. Define Case, Illustrate each Case. 

 

      6. What is Punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of Punctuation.

 

      7. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar. 

 

 

 

      Arithmetic (Time, 1.25 hours) 

 

      1. Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.

 

      2. A wagon box is 2 ft deep, 10 feet long! , and 3 ft. Wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold? 

 

      3. If a load of wheat weighs 3942 lbs., what is it worth at 50cts/bushel, deducting 1050lbs. For tare? 

 

      4. District No. 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?

 

     5. Find cost of 6720 lbs. Coal at $6.00 per ton. 

 

      6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent. 

 

      7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft. Long at $20 per meter? 

 

      8 Find bank discount on $300 for! 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent. 

 

      9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per acre, the distance  

 

      Around which is 640 rods? 

 

      10. Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt. 

 

 

 

      U. S. History (Time, 45 minutes) 

 

      1. Give the epochs into which U. S. History is divided. 

 

      2. Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus.

 

      3. Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary War. 

 

      4. Show the territorial growth of the United States. 

 

      5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas. 

 

      6. Describe three of the most prominent battles of the Rebellion.

 

      7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton, Bell, Lincoln, Penn, and Howe? 

 

      8. Name events connected with the following dates: 1607, 1620, 1800, 1849, 1865. 

 

 

 

      Orthography (Time, one hour) 

 

      1. What is meant by the following: Alphabet, phonetic, orthography, etymology, syllabication?

 

      2. What are elementary sounds? How classified?

 

      3. What are the following, and give examples of each: Trigraph, sub vocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals?

 

      4. Give four substitutes for caret 'U! '. 

 

      5. Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e.' Name two 

 

      Exceptions under each rule. 

 

      6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each. 

 

      7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word: bi, dis, mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono, sup 

 

      8. Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following, and name the sign that indicates the sound: card, ball, mercy, sir, odd, cell, rise, blood, fare, last. 

 

      9. Use the following correctly in sentences: cite, site, sight, fane, 

 

      Fain, feign, vane, vain, vein, raze, raise, rays. 

 

      10. Write 10 words frequently mispronounced and indicate pronunciation by use of diacritical marks and by syllabication.

 

 

 

      Geography (Time, one hour) 

 

      1. What is climate? Upon what does climate depend? 

 

      2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas? 

 

      3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean? 

 

      4. Describe the mountains of North America.

 

      5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia, Odessa, Denver, 

 

      Manitoba, Hecla, Yukon, St. Helena, Juan Fernandez, Aspinwall & Orinoco. 

 

      6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the U.S. 

 

      7. Name all the republics of Europe and give the capital of each. 

 

      8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same latitude?

 

      9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to the sources of rivers.

 

 

      10. Describe the movements of the earth. Give the inclination of the earth. 

 

 

 

 

      Also notice that the exam took five hours to complete.

 

      Gives the saying "she/he only had an 8th grade education" a whole new meaning, doesn't it? 

 

 

 

      What happened to us??? It is kind of humbling, isn't it?

     

             

     

 ----- Original Message ----- 

  From: David J. Rosen 
  To: The Assessment Discussion List 
  Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 8:26 AM
  Subject: [Assessment 1333] Re: Tests vs. Self Assessments of Literacy


  Tom, and others,


  Thank you for pointing out the Henningsen research and asking for additional research on adults' perceptions of their own literacy and numeracy skills and the discrepancy between the NALS, NAAL, IALS, ALL and adults' own perceptions.  I would like to raise another set of questions to consider about adult literacy and numeracy needs assessments:


  Why do countries assess literacy and numeracy need? What have they learned? What is the added value of these assessments to low-literacy or low-numeracy residents? To their governments and societies? Have the data had an impact on policy (yet)? What has been the "return on investment" for national/international needs assessments of adult literacy and numeracy?


  Why are we measuring need but not demand? Even if 40-50% of a population is in need, we can be certain that 40-50% will not be interested in getting education services to address the need. What percent or number of people see that they have basic skills needs -- and want to pursue classes, tutorials or online learning to address it? Would that be a more useful figure for public policy decisions than needs data?  Some states have begun to count the number of people who want classes but are put on waiting lists. This is one measure of demand. Should these states be supported to improve/refine their data collecting and reporting so we can have confidence in this measure, so it can be used for decision making? Should we be looking at other measures of demand? If so, what?


  For example, in public transportation I understand that it is common to do "latent demand" studies, that is, to survey people about whether if a service were offered or extended they would take advantage of it? ("If the #49 bus hour schedule were extended to midnight instead of 11:00 PM would you use it at that time?") Should we do latent demand studies in adult education? ("If English classes -- or GED Prep -- were offered on Saturday mornings would you attend?") If so, should we do these studies systematically?


  Meanwhile, one thing we know for sure from the long waiting lists in many states for English Language classes: there is a big demand for these services, and the public sector has not come close to meeting the actual demand, not to mention potential or latent demand for these services. Perhaps we should work on addressing the actual demand staring us in the face and worry about measuring latent demand -- and need -- later.


  David J. Rosen
  djrosen at comcast.net




  On Jun 8, 2008, at 5:45 PM, tsticht at znet.com wrote:


    June 8, 2008


    The Great Adult Literacy Skills Debate: Tests vs. Self Assessments


    Tom Sticht
    International Consultant in Adult Education


    In 2006, Inge Henningsen of the Department of Statistics in the University
    of Copenhagen presented a paper entitled: "Adults just don't know how
    stupid they are: Dubious statistics in studies of adult literacy and
    numeracy."
    (online at www.alm online.org/ALM13/programma%20alm13.pdf ).


    In this paper Henningsen comments on the many problems, conceptual,
    methodological, and statistical, with the International Adult Literacy
    Survey (IALS) of the mid-1990s and the Adult Literacy and Lifeskills (ALL)
    survey of 2003-06. One of the major factors in these assessments that
    Henningsen addresses is the finding in various nations of a wide gap
    between the literacy and numeracy
    skills of adults when the literacy test scores are taken as indicators of
    people's skill, and the skills that adults assign to themselves when asked
    to self-assess their literacy or numeracy skills.


    Though Henningsen focuses primarily on the data from these international
    adult literacy surveys for Denmark, similar gaps are found in various other
    nations. For instance, in Australia, based on the IALS test scores the
    report writers declared some 46 percent of adults to possess low literacy
    skills, whereas only 4 percent of the adults themselves thought they had
    low skills.


    In Canada and the United States, similar discrepancies were found, with 42
    percent of Canadians and 47 percent of U.S. adults being declared low in
    literacy based on the test scores, while only 5 percent of Canadian and 7
    percent of U.S. adults rated their literacy low.


    In New Zealand, using just the numeracy data from the ALL, 51 percent of
    adults were declared low in numeracy based on test scores, while only 19
    percent rated their numeracy skills as low. Finally, in England, using a
    special test developed for the Skills for Life strategy in that nation, 16
    percent of adults were declared low in literacy based on their test scores
    but only 4 percent thought they had low test scores.


    Henningsen  noted that the discrepancy between the self assessed proficiency
    and the conclusions based on test scores is not treated seriously in the
    reports and asks, "Is it ethically defensible to disregard the opinions and
    statements of the adults regarding their own skills and "narrate" big groups
    of adults in the labour market as excluded from society and lacking in basic
    skills." Answering this rhetorical question, Henningsen goes on to say, "I
    find it disturbing that the reports send the message that the experiences
    and assessments of the test persons themselves have no validity compared to
    the test results. Is it a viable for the adult education community to let
    surveys convey the impression that "adults just don't know how stupid they
    are."?


    One important consequence of adults' thinking that their literacy and
    numeracy skills are pretty good is that they will choose to not participate
    in language, literacy, and numeracy (LLN) provision to improve their skills.
    For instance, from various sources I can make rough estimates of the
    percentage of adults that the government says are in need of LLN provision
    that actually take part in LLN provision in a given year. In  Australia the
    percentage of those the governments say are in need of LLN provision who
    actually enroll in LLN provision in a given year is around 4%, in Canada
    10%, England 5%, New Zealand 11%, and the U.S. 3%. These (admittedly
    roughly estimated) percentages of participation are more in line with the
    self assessed needs of adults than the needs based on the paper and pencil
    tests.


    In the United States, the National Center for Education Statistics reports
    in the 2008 Conditions of Education that the percentages of adults aged 16
    or older who participated in adult education activities consisting of basic
    skills, English as a second language, or apprenticeships in 1995, 1999, 2001
    and 2005 were 3, 4, 4, and 3 percent respectively. Without the category of
    "apprenticeships" the percentages would be even lower. These low
    percentages of self reported participation in LLN are again more in line
    with the self assessments of adults regarding their literacy and numeracy
    skills than with the percentages declared to be "at risk" for low literacy
    based on the adult literacy survey tests.


    The large discrepancies between the percentages of adults needing basic
    skills education as given by governments based on the international adult
    literacy surveys, and the much smaller percentages of adults who perceive
    their literacy and numeracy skills to be so low that they are unable to
    progress in the societies in which they live pose problems for adult
    education. Some have suggested that adults may be too embarrassed to admit
    that they have a literacy or numeracy problem and that is why there is a
    large discrepancy between the adults' test scores and their self
    assessments of literacy. If this is so, then research is needed to
    establish that this is so. In general, major efforts are needed to better
    understand the genuine needs of adults for LLN provision, what sorts of
    educational programs would best meet these needs,  and the sorts of
    activities that are needed to let
    adults understand the educational opportunities available to them.




    Thomas G. Sticht
    International Consultant in Adult Education
    2062 Valley View Blvd.
    El Cajon, CA 92019-2059
    Tel/fax: (619)444-9595,
    Email tsticht at aznet.net








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    Assessment mailing list
    Assessment at nifl.gov
    To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
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From ALCDGG at langate.gsu.edu  Mon Jun  9 16:38:47 2008
From: ALCDGG at langate.gsu.edu (Daphne Greenberg)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 16:38:47 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1336] Re: Tests vs. Self Assessments of Literacy
In-Reply-To: <1212961518.484c52ee5a546@webmail.znet.net>
References: <1212961518.484c52ee5a546@webmail.znet.net>
Message-ID: <484D5CAB.919D.0031.0@langate.gsu.edu>

Tom,
I agree that there is a need to study why there is often a discrepancy between the percentage of people who state that they have difficulty with literacy tasks vs. the percentage of people who score poorly on literacy tests. In addition to the hypothesis that you share: "some have suggested that adults may be too embarrassed to admit that they have a literacy or numeracy problem and that is why there is a
large discrepancy between the adults' test scores and their self assessments of literacy", I would like to propose two other hypotheses worth testing.
1. Is it possible that some/many struggling adult readers are okay with their level of literacy performance? Perhaps they have jobs/community support that meet their literacy abilities and needs. 
2. Is it possible that some/many struggling adult readers honestly don't know what they don't know? For example, it is not uncommon for an adult reading at the second grade level, to enroll in an adult literacy program with the expectation that within a year of weekly 2-4 hour classes s/he will be able to pass the GED exam. I think that it is human nature not to fully understand what we don't know. For example, I know that I don't know physics, but I have no clue how much I don't know compared to someone who has studied it for one semester in college. On a test asking me to self-assess my physics knowledge, I too may overestimate what I know in relation to the world of physics.
Daphne

>>> <tsticht at znet.com> 6/8/2008 5:45 PM >>>
June 8, 2008

The Great Adult Literacy Skills Debate: Tests vs. Self Assessments

Tom Sticht
International Consultant in Adult Education

In 2006, Inge Henningsen of the Department of Statistics in the University
of Copenhagen presented a paper entitled: "Adults just don't know how
stupid they are: Dubious statistics in studies of adult literacy and
numeracy."
(online at www.alm online.org/ALM13/programma%20alm13.pdf ).

In this paper Henningsen comments on the many problems, conceptual,
methodological, and statistical, with the International Adult Literacy
Survey (IALS) of the mid-1990s and the Adult Literacy and Lifeskills (ALL)
survey of 2003-06. One of the major factors in these assessments that
Henningsen addresses is the finding in various nations of a wide gap
between the literacy and numeracy
skills of adults when the literacy test scores are taken as indicators of
people's skill, and the skills that adults assign to themselves when asked
to self-assess their literacy or numeracy skills.

Though Henningsen focuses primarily on the data from these international
adult literacy surveys for Denmark, similar gaps are found in various other
nations. For instance, in Australia, based on the IALS test scores the
report writers declared some 46 percent of adults to possess low literacy
skills, whereas only 4 percent of the adults themselves thought they had
low skills.

In Canada and the United States, similar discrepancies were found, with 42
percent of Canadians and 47 percent of U.S. adults being declared low in
literacy based on the test scores, while only 5 percent of Canadian and 7
percent of U.S. adults rated their literacy low.

In New Zealand, using just the numeracy data from the ALL, 51 percent of
adults were declared low in numeracy based on test scores, while only 19
percent rated their numeracy skills as low. Finally, in England, using a
special test developed for the Skills for Life strategy in that nation, 16
percent of adults were declared low in literacy based on their test scores
but only 4 percent thought they had low test scores.

Henningsen  noted that the discrepancy between the self assessed proficiency
and the conclusions based on test scores is not treated seriously in the
reports and asks, "Is it ethically defensible to disregard the opinions and
statements of the adults regarding their own skills and "narrate" big groups
of adults in the labour market as excluded from society and lacking in basic
skills." Answering this rhetorical question, Henningsen goes on to say, "I
find it disturbing that the reports send the message that the experiences
and assessments of the test persons themselves have no validity compared to
the test results. Is it a viable for the adult education community to let
surveys convey the impression that "adults just don't know how stupid they
are."?

One important consequence of adults' thinking that their literacy and
numeracy skills are pretty good is that they will choose to not participate
in language, literacy, and numeracy (LLN) provision to improve their skills.
For instance, from various sources I can make rough estimates of the
percentage of adults that the government says are in need of LLN provision
that actually take part in LLN provision in a given year. In  Australia the
percentage of those the governments say are in need of LLN provision who
actually enroll in LLN provision in a given year is around 4%, in Canada
10%, England 5%, New Zealand 11%, and the U.S. 3%. These (admittedly
roughly estimated) percentages of participation are more in line with the
self assessed needs of adults than the needs based on the paper and pencil
tests.

In the United States, the National Center for Education Statistics reports
in the 2008 Conditions of Education that the percentages of adults aged 16
or older who participated in adult education activities consisting of basic
skills, English as a second language, or apprenticeships in 1995, 1999, 2001
and 2005 were 3, 4, 4, and 3 percent respectively. Without the category of
"apprenticeships" the percentages would be even lower. These low
percentages of self reported participation in LLN are again more in line
with the self assessments of adults regarding their literacy and numeracy
skills than with the percentages declared to be "at risk" for low literacy
based on the adult literacy survey tests.

The large discrepancies between the percentages of adults needing basic
skills education as given by governments based on the international adult
literacy surveys, and the much smaller percentages of adults who perceive
their literacy and numeracy skills to be so low that they are unable to
progress in the societies in which they live pose problems for adult
education. Some have suggested that adults may be too embarrassed to admit
that they have a literacy or numeracy problem and that is why there is a
large discrepancy between the adults' test scores and their self
assessments of literacy. If this is so, then research is needed to
establish that this is so. In general, major efforts are needed to better
understand the genuine needs of adults for LLN provision, what sorts of
educational programs would best meet these needs,  and the sorts of
activities that are needed to let
adults understand the educational opportunities available to them.


Thomas G. Sticht
International Consultant in Adult Education
2062 Valley View Blvd.
El Cajon, CA 92019-2059
Tel/fax: (619)444-9595,
Email tsticht at aznet.net 




-------------------------------
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From tsticht at znet.com  Mon Jun  9 21:37:24 2008
From: tsticht at znet.com (tsticht at znet.com)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 18:37:24 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1337] Re: Tests vs. Self Assessments of Literacy
Message-ID: <1213061844.484ddad4cd199@webmail.znet.net>

Daphne: You asked:
1. Is it possible that some/many struggling adult readers are okay with
their level of literacy performance? Perhaps they have jobs/community
support that meet their literacy abilities and needs.

My response:  In 2002 I wrote the following note that discusses differences
among whites, blacks, and Hispanics in terms of their measured (test
scores) and self-perceptions of reading abilities and discussed
"sub-cultural niches" which people may occupy that influence their
perceived reading abilities. This seems to me to be related to your ideas
in the above question. It is an interesting puzzle of diversity and
literacy.

Tom Sticht

Research Note                          December 10, 2002

Where does the reading problem go when children grow up?

Thomas G. Sticht
International Consultant in Adult Education

Have the reading skills of students coming out of the K-12 public school
system declined in the last half century?  The 1992 National Adult Literacy
Survey (NALS) provides some data bearing on this issue.

The NALS assessed adult literacy using three scales: Prose, Document and
Quantitative. A report on the Literacy of Older Adults in America, from the
National Center for Education Statistics in Washington, DC, November 1996
(p. 35) reported data on the age and literacy
proficiency for adults with varying amounts of education.

For adults with 0-12 years of education but no high school diploma or GED,
proficiency on the NALS Prose scale were:

Age                Proficiency
  16-24                233
  25-59                210
  60-69                211

For adults with high school diplomas or GEDs the average literacy
proficiencies for the three age groups were:

  Age                Proficiency
  16-24                274
  25-59                273
  60-69                262

For adults with post-secondary education the average literacy proficiencies
for the three age groups were:

Age                Proficiency
  16-24                311
  25-59                315
  60-69                293


>From these NALS data, it appears that for adults across 60 years of age
their literacy skills do not vary much on the average. This would seem to
indicate that regardless of how literacy has been taught in the last 60
years, once adults with similar amounts of schooling get out of school and
spend some time in other activities, their literacy skills don?t differ
very much, at least for the adults sampled in 1992 and assessed using the
functional literacy tasks of the NALS.

Adult's Perceptions of Their Reading Skills

It is one thing to use standardized tests to judge the reading skills of
adults and still another to ask those same adults how well they read the
English language. The question is, do the nation's adults think they have a
reading problem?

The 1992 National Adult Literacy Survey (NALS) asked adults to rate their
own reading skills as they perceived them. In the report on the Literacy of
Older Adults in America, from the National Center for Education Statistics
in Washington, DC, November 1996, the authors reported (p. 43) that adults
aged 16 to 59 rated themselves as reading Very Well-72%, Well-22% and Not
Well/Not At All-7%. Overall, then, some 93% of adults in this age range
rated themselves as reading Well or Very Well.

When broken out by ethnic groups, ratings were found of

Whites: Very Well-77%, Well-21%, or Not Well/Not At All-3%.
Blacks: Very Well-67%, Well-27% and Not Well/Not At All-6%.
Hispanics: Very Well-46%, Well-22% and Not Well/Not At All-32%

In this analysis, only Hispanics reported a high percentage, 32 percent, or
5.3 million adults, who thought they could not read English Well or Very
Well, no doubt reflecting the large immigrant population in this category
with less education and poorer English language skills than U. S. born
adults. Among both Blacks and Whites, poor reading appears to be a
perceived problem for only 3 to 6 percent of these populations, about 4.5
million adults in the age range 16-59.

Sub-cultural niches for literacy

When the average proficiencies of Whites and Blacks on the NALS Prose scale
were compared, it was found that for Whites who rated themselves as reading
Very Well, their average Prose proficiency was 308, whereas for Blacks
rating themselves as reading Very Well, their Prose average proficiency was
259. On the Quantitative scale, Whites rating themselves as reading Well
scored 278 on the NALS , while Blacks who rated themselves as reading Well
scored 221, near the lower end of the NALS scale.

This indicates that two sub-cultural groups may both rate themselves as
about equally competent in terms of their self-perceived reading abilities,
even though their measured competence may differ as much as a full standard
deviation on standardized literacy tests. This suggests an adaptive
function within each sub-cultural group to the ambient literacy abilities
and demands of each sub-group as its members encounter and perceive them.

It would seem to be a useful activity to find out more about these cultural
and sub-cultural phenomena with regard to the differences between adults'
measured literacy abilities and their self-perceptions of their literacy
abilities, and to use this information to better understand the scale of
need and desire for adults to participate in adult education and literacy
programs.

This may be even more important in light of the fact that the NALS indicated
that some 10 million adults were such poor readers that they could not even
take the exam. While this might not be a national crisis for a nation with
some 200 million adults, it is a national disgrace that so little is being
done to help these adults help themselves and their families. With combined
state and federal funding for the adult education and literacy programs
operating under the Workforce Investment Act, Title 2, Adult Education and
Family Literacy below a woeful $800 per enrollee, this is poverty  level
funding for the education of our most difficult to reach and educate
citizens.

It seems to me to be a national shame to spend billions of dollars to leave
no children behind, while largely ignoring the desperate need of the
children's parents and leaving them behind. How can this be an inspiration
to children to pursue their own education? How can parents who cannot read
be their children?s first reading teachers? Conceivably, if we invested
more in the education of poorly educated adults, we could influence the
educability of the adult?s children.

Thomas G. Sticht
International Consultant in Adult Education
2062 Valley View Blvd.
El Cajon, CA 92019-2059
Tel/fax: (619) 444-9133
Email: tsticht at aznet.net





From khinson at almanid.com  Tue Jun 10 08:25:58 2008
From: khinson at almanid.com (Katrina Hinson)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:25:58 +0200
Subject: [Assessment 1338] Re: Tests vs. Self Assessments of	Literacy
Message-ID: <484E8EF6020000A00000568E@aiqwul01a.qwu.de.almanid.com>

In his reply, Mr. Sticht wrote: 
"It seems to me to be a national shame to spend billions of dollars to
leave
no children behind, while largely ignoring the desperate need of the
children's parents and leaving them behind. How can this be an
inspiration
to children to pursue their own education? How can parents who cannot
read
be their children?s first reading teachers? Conceivably, if we invested
more in the education of poorly educated adults, we could influence the
educability of the adult?s children."

I think this is one of the key components that's missing in alot of
adult literacy programs especially in rural areas across the  US. 
Ironically, alot of adult literacy programs are unable to partner with
school systems depending on how or who governs the adult literacy
program. I know in my state, public schools in some areas see us as
direct competition with them rather than an asset - rather than see us
as a resource to help parents, we're the 'bad guys' who take students
from their classrooms - which is definitely not the case.

Parents are one of the greatest influences on children of any age. If
parents don't have a strong academic background, then he/she may not see
the value of encouraging their children to stay in school or achieve in
school and may be unable to help his or her child achieve. Likewise,
they may even be unable to  locate community resources that would help
their children like after school learning programs or tutoring options.
There is a lot to be said about having better educated parents  so that
those parents can have a positive impact on the future of their
children.

The biggest hurdle though is how to remove barriers between adult
literacy programs and public schools (at least for me where I'm
located). Wouldn't it be great if teachers of low performing students
who had met with the parents and knew that the parents didn't have a HS
education or had not completed a HS education (that is asked on entry
paperwork at the beginning of the school year when we send our kids to
school - they ask 'highest education level" of the parents) provided
information on local literacy programs that the parents might could
attend?  Think about the impact on a child who could see his or her mom
or dad learning and realize the importance of learning for themselves as
well? I don't know how to get there, but I do think it's something that
would make a positive impact on how ever children learn if we help the
parents learn as well.

Regards,
Katrina Hinson


From Miriam.Kroeger at azed.gov  Tue Jun 10 10:51:55 2008
From: Miriam.Kroeger at azed.gov (Kroeger, Miriam)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 07:51:55 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1339] Re: Tests vs. Self Assessments of	Literacy
In-Reply-To: <484E8EF6020000A00000568E@aiqwul01a.qwu.de.almanid.com>
References: <484E8EF6020000A00000568E@aiqwul01a.qwu.de.almanid.com>
Message-ID: <914B6658FFC2C74EAF866A48985C3A8E038F2448F0@prodmail5.prod.root>

You might also want to ask your adult students if they have children in school, what grades, and of course what schools.  Ask them how their children are doing.  For persistent adult ed learners - keep track of these "informal" stats, particularly if the children are attending a school/schools close to your adult ed program.  Then introduce yourself to the principal and tell him/her that several of your adult learners have children at the elementary school, and they are reporting that the children are doing well, or improving.  Does the principal see this?, the children's teachers?  Do they think there might be a correlation?  Would they want to work with you on a little "research project" to confirm this??

Sometimes adult education is the best kept secret in the neighborhood.
-Miriam Kroeger


-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Katrina Hinson
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 5:26 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov; tsticht at znet.com
Subject: [Assessment 1338] Re: Tests vs. Self Assessments of Literacy

In his reply, Mr. Sticht wrote:
"It seems to me to be a national shame to spend billions of dollars to leave no children behind, while largely ignoring the desperate need of the children's parents and leaving them behind. How can this be an inspiration to children to pursue their own education? How can parents who cannot read be their children's first reading teachers? Conceivably, if we invested more in the education of poorly educated adults, we could influence the educability of the adult's children."

I think this is one of the key components that's missing in alot of adult literacy programs especially in rural areas across the  US.
Ironically, alot of adult literacy programs are unable to partner with school systems depending on how or who governs the adult literacy program. I know in my state, public schools in some areas see us as direct competition with them rather than an asset - rather than see us as a resource to help parents, we're the 'bad guys' who take students from their classrooms - which is definitely not the case.

Parents are one of the greatest influences on children of any age. If parents don't have a strong academic background, then he/she may not see the value of encouraging their children to stay in school or achieve in school and may be unable to help his or her child achieve. Likewise, they may even be unable to  locate community resources that would help their children like after school learning programs or tutoring options.
There is a lot to be said about having better educated parents  so that those parents can have a positive impact on the future of their children.

The biggest hurdle though is how to remove barriers between adult literacy programs and public schools (at least for me where I'm located). Wouldn't it be great if teachers of low performing students who had met with the parents and knew that the parents didn't have a HS education or had not completed a HS education (that is asked on entry paperwork at the beginning of the school year when we send our kids to school - they ask 'highest education level" of the parents) provided information on local literacy programs that the parents might could attend?  Think about the impact on a child who could see his or her mom or dad learning and realize the importance of learning for themselves as well? I don't know how to get there, but I do think it's something that would make a positive impact on how ever children learn if we help the parents learn as well.

Regards,
Katrina Hinson
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to miriam.kroeger at azed.gov

NOTICE: This e-mail (and any attachments) may contain PRIVILEGED OR CONFIDENTIAL information and is intended only for the use of the specific individual(s) to whom it is addressed.  It may contain information that is privileged and confidential under state and federal law.  This information may be used or disclosed only in accordance with law, and you may be subject to penalties under law for improper use or further disclosure of the information in this e-mail and its attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the person named above by reply e-mail, and then delete the original e-mail.  Thank you.


From khinson at almanid.com  Tue Jun 10 11:40:06 2008
From: khinson at almanid.com (Katrina Hinson)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:40:06 +0200
Subject: [Assessment 1340] Re: Tests vs. Self Assessments	of	Literacy
Message-ID: <484EBC76020000A00000569B@aiqwul01a.qwu.de.almanid.com>

I think that is a great idea. I do already ask my students if they have kids. It usually comes up easily when they realize I have 4 of my own from 3 to 16- they are always amazed and it's a great way to learn a lot about them. I also find that they are all excited when they are able to help their children with homework or do something as simple as write a letter to their child's teacher where as before they wouldn't have ever done it. They would have been uncomfortable doing so. I love the idea of trying to partner with a school in this manner. I don't know how realistic it would be to partner with one but I think it bares looking into.

Regards,
Katrina Hinson

>>> "Kroeger, Miriam" <Miriam.Kroeger at azed.gov> 06/10/08 4:51 PM >>>
You might also want to ask your adult students if they have children in school, what grades, and of course what schools.  Ask them how their children are doing.  For persistent adult ed learners - keep track of these "informal" stats, particularly if the children are attending a school/schools close to your adult ed program.  Then introduce yourself to the principal and tell him/her that several of your adult learners have children at the elementary school, and they are reporting that the children are doing well, or improving.  Does the principal see this?, the children's teachers?  Do they think there might be a correlation?  Would they want to work with you on a little "research project" to confirm this??

Sometimes adult education is the best kept secret in the neighborhood.
-Miriam Kroeger


-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Katrina Hinson
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 5:26 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov; tsticht at znet.com
Subject: [Assessment 1338] Re: Tests vs. Self Assessments of Literacy

In his reply, Mr. Sticht wrote:
"It seems to me to be a national shame to spend billions of dollars to leave no children behind, while largely ignoring the desperate need of the children's parents and leaving them behind. How can this be an inspiration to children to pursue their own education? How can parents who cannot read be their children's first reading teachers? Conceivably, if we invested more in the education of poorly educated adults, we could influence the educability of the adult's children."

I think this is one of the key components that's missing in alot of adult literacy programs especially in rural areas across the  US.
Ironically, alot of adult literacy programs are unable to partner with school systems depending on how or who governs the adult literacy program. I know in my state, public schools in some areas see us as direct competition with them rather than an asset - rather than see us as a resource to help parents, we're the 'bad guys' who take students from their classrooms - which is definitely not the case.

Parents are one of the greatest influences on children of any age. If parents don't have a strong academic background, then he/she may not see the value of encouraging their children to stay in school or achieve in school and may be unable to help his or her child achieve. Likewise, they may even be unable to  locate community resources that would help their children like after school learning programs or tutoring options.
There is a lot to be said about having better educated parents  so that those parents can have a positive impact on the future of their children.

The biggest hurdle though is how to remove barriers between adult literacy programs and public schools (at least for me where I'm located). Wouldn't it be great if teachers of low performing students who had met with the parents and knew that the parents didn't have a HS education or had not completed a HS education (that is asked on entry paperwork at the beginning of the school year when we send our kids to school - they ask 'highest education level" of the parents) provided information on local literacy programs that the parents might could attend?  Think about the impact on a child who could see his or her mom or dad learning and realize the importance of learning for themselves as well? I don't know how to get there, but I do think it's something that would make a positive impact on how ever children learn if we help the parents learn as well.

Regards,
Katrina Hinson
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to miriam.kroeger at azed.gov

NOTICE: This e-mail (and any attachments) may contain PRIVILEGED OR CONFIDENTIAL information and is intended only for the use of the specific individual(s) to whom it is addressed.  It may contain information that is privileged and confidential under state and federal law.  This information may be used or disclosed only in accordance with law, and you may be subject to penalties under law for improper use or further disclosure of the information in this e-mail and its attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the person named above by reply e-mail, and then delete the original e-mail.  Thank you.
-------------------------------
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Email delivered to khinson at almanid.com



From Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org  Tue Jun 10 12:58:15 2008
From: Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org (Anderson, Philip)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:58:15 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1341] Re: Tests vs. Self Assessments of	Literacy
In-Reply-To: <914B6658FFC2C74EAF866A48985C3A8E038F2448F0@prodmail5.prod.root>
Message-ID: <96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E187A610B@MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>

To add to Miriam's thoughts, we in Florida strongly encourage adult
education programs to pay a brief, upbeat visit when school starts in
the fall, and again in January to the K12 schools to give flyers about
the adult education program, the new schedule of classes, and to talk
personally with the principal or designee.  Building a positive
relationship with a contact at the district level and in each school is
so important.  Teacher recruiting opportunities arise in the K12
schools, and it can work well when circumstances lead to the evening
adult education instructor teaching the parents of their daytime K12 ELL
students.   Schools are glad to send fliers home with children that
market the adult education classes, especially when the adult education
staff delivers them collated into neat packages for each classroom.    

My experience working in rural areas of central Florida is that teachers
and administrators in the K-12 system become so overwhelmed with
mandates from all sides, any effort to collaborate works better when it
is portrayed as a realistic way to help them achieve their goals with a
minimal investment of time and resources on their part.  Especially this
year, with Florida's drastic cutbacks in K12 school funding and the loss
of teachers in every school, our adult education programs will be very
effective in helping K12 schools achieve their goals.  We know who the
parents are, and we know how to help them build a home environment that
fosters learning for all. We know adult education is win-win-win-win for
parents, kids, employers and school systems.  There are many ways to
design our package to show our partners how they stand to gain in big
ways from using our services.

CONTACT INFORMATION
Philip Anderson
Adult ESOL Program
Florida Department of Education
Tel (850) 245-9450
Philip.anderson at fldoe.org


 

Please take a few minutes to provide feedback on the quality of service you received from our staff. The Department of Education values your feedback as a customer. Commissioner of Education Dr. Eric J. Smith is committed to continuously assessing and improving the level and quality of services provided to you.Simply use the link below.  Thank you in advance for completing the survey.
 

http://data.fldoe.org/cs/default.cfm?staff=Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org|12:58:16%20Tue%2010%20Jun%202008
 



 -----Original Message-----
From: Kroeger, Miriam [mailto:Miriam.Kroeger at azed.gov] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 10:52 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1339] Re: Tests vs. Self Assessments of Literacy

You might also want to ask your adult students if they have children in
school, what grades, and of course what schools.  Ask them how their
children are doing.  For persistent adult ed learners - keep track of
these "informal" stats, particularly if the children are attending a
school/schools close to your adult ed program.  Then introduce yourself
to the principal and tell him/her that several of your adult learners
have children at the elementary school, and they are reporting that the
children are doing well, or improving.  Does the principal see this?,
the children's teachers?  Do they think there might be a correlation?
Would they want to work with you on a little "research project" to
confirm this??

Sometimes adult education is the best kept secret in the neighborhood.
-Miriam Kroeger


-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Katrina Hinson
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 5:26 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov; tsticht at znet.com
Subject: [Assessment 1338] Re: Tests vs. Self Assessments of Literacy

In his reply, Mr. Sticht wrote:
"It seems to me to be a national shame to spend billions of dollars to
leave no children behind, while largely ignoring the desperate need of
the children's parents and leaving them behind. How can this be an
inspiration to children to pursue their own education? How can parents
who cannot read be their children's first reading teachers? Conceivably,
if we invested more in the education of poorly educated adults, we could
influence the educability of the adult's children."

I think this is one of the key components that's missing in alot of
adult literacy programs especially in rural areas across the  US.
Ironically, alot of adult literacy programs are unable to partner with
school systems depending on how or who governs the adult literacy
program. I know in my state, public schools in some areas see us as
direct competition with them rather than an asset - rather than see us
as a resource to help parents, we're the 'bad guys' who take students
from their classrooms - which is definitely not the case.

Parents are one of the greatest influences on children of any age. If
parents don't have a strong academic background, then he/she may not see
the value of encouraging their children to stay in school or achieve in
school and may be unable to help his or her child achieve. Likewise,
they may even be unable to  locate community resources that would help
their children like after school learning programs or tutoring options.
There is a lot to be said about having better educated parents  so that
those parents can have a positive impact on the future of their
children.

The biggest hurdle though is how to remove barriers between adult
literacy programs and public schools (at least for me where I'm
located). Wouldn't it be great if teachers of low performing students
who had met with the parents and knew that the parents didn't have a HS
education or had not completed a HS education (that is asked on entry
paperwork at the beginning of the school year when we send our kids to
school - they ask 'highest education level" of the parents) provided
information on local literacy programs that the parents might could
attend?  Think about the impact on a child who could see his or her mom
or dad learning and realize the importance of learning for themselves as
well? I don't know how to get there, but I do think it's something that
would make a positive impact on how ever children learn if we help the
parents learn as well.

Regards,
Katrina Hinson
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to miriam.kroeger at azed.gov

NOTICE: This e-mail (and any attachments) may contain PRIVILEGED OR
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law.  This information may be used or disclosed only in accordance with
law, and you may be subject to penalties under law for improper use or
further disclosure of the information in this e-mail and its
attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, please
immediately notify the person named above by reply e-mail, and then
delete the original e-mail.  Thank you.


From jackie.coelho at gmail.com  Wed Jun 11 08:29:42 2008
From: jackie.coelho at gmail.com (Jackie Coelho)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 08:29:42 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1342] Re: Tests vs. Self Assessments of Literacy
In-Reply-To: <96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E187A610B@MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>
References: <914B6658FFC2C74EAF866A48985C3A8E038F2448F0@prodmail5.prod.root>
	<96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E187A610B@MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>
Message-ID: <1dd5701e0806110529u5a371877x9bbcea7b2def57f5@mail.gmail.com>

There are so many thoughts and related topics in this discussion. I
have just read through them alI. One piece that I think seems to be
missing is the socio-economic influences  which cannot be ignored.

I think it was Tom that mentioned subcultures, and the fact that an
adult may feel his/her literacy level is higher than the test because
he/she functions well enough within his/her community. It raises many
questions in my mind. Question that are perhaps out of the scope of
this conversation.

However, I will forge ahead with them. Is the test serving the group
that funds the test or the students? What is our ultimate purpose? Do
we want to create workers with better skills? Or better citizens? Are
these two mutually exclusive? Where is the overlap?

How do we address the issue of stagnant wages, and fewer economic
opportunities which can offset a desire to work harder? What fulfills
a person? Better wages? Ties to the community?

I am not suggesting that education has no value. That is patently
ridiculous. I do sometimes get concerned about the field's seeming
inability to address the socioeconomic struggles of our population.
Struggles that seem to be worsening, and cannot be completely laid at
the feet of a lack of education.

Respectfully,
Jackie Coelho

On 6/10/08, Anderson, Philip <Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org> wrote:
> To add to Miriam's thoughts, we in Florida strongly encourage adult
> education programs to pay a brief, upbeat visit when school starts in
> the fall, and again in January to the K12 schools to give flyers about
> the adult education program, the new schedule of classes, and to talk
> personally with the principal or designee.  Building a positive
> relationship with a contact at the district level and in each school is
> so important.  Teacher recruiting opportunities arise in the K12
> schools, and it can work well when circumstances lead to the evening
> adult education instructor teaching the parents of their daytime K12 ELL
> students.   Schools are glad to send fliers home with children that
> market the adult education classes, especially when the adult education
> staff delivers them collated into neat packages for each classroom.
>
> My experience working in rural areas of central Florida is that teachers
> and administrators in the K-12 system become so overwhelmed with
> mandates from all sides, any effort to collaborate works better when it
> is portrayed as a realistic way to help them achieve their goals with a
> minimal investment of time and resources on their part.  Especially this
> year, with Florida's drastic cutbacks in K12 school funding and the loss
> of teachers in every school, our adult education programs will be very
> effective in helping K12 schools achieve their goals.  We know who the
> parents are, and we know how to help them build a home environment that
> fosters learning for all. We know adult education is win-win-win-win for
> parents, kids, employers and school systems.  There are many ways to
> design our package to show our partners how they stand to gain in big
> ways from using our services.
>
> CONTACT INFORMATION
> Philip Anderson
> Adult ESOL Program
> Florida Department of Education
> Tel (850) 245-9450
> Philip.anderson at fldoe.org
>
>
>
>
> Please take a few minutes to provide feedback on the quality of service you received from our staff. The Department of Education values your feedback as a customer. Commissioner of Education Dr. Eric J. Smith is committed to continuously assessing and improving the level and quality of services provided to you.Simply use the link below.  Thank you in advance for completing the survey.
>
>
> http://data.fldoe.org/cs/default.cfm?staff=Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org|12:58:16%20Tue%2010%20Jun%202008
>
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: Kroeger, Miriam [mailto:Miriam.Kroeger at azed.gov]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 10:52 AM
> To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
> Subject: [Assessment 1339] Re: Tests vs. Self Assessments of Literacy
>
> You might also want to ask your adult students if they have children in
> school, what grades, and of course what schools.  Ask them how their
> children are doing.  For persistent adult ed learners - keep track of
> these "informal" stats, particularly if the children are attending a
> school/schools close to your adult ed program.  Then introduce yourself
> to the principal and tell him/her that several of your adult learners
> have children at the elementary school, and they are reporting that the
> children are doing well, or improving.  Does the principal see this?,
> the children's teachers?  Do they think there might be a correlation?
> Would they want to work with you on a little "research project" to
> confirm this??
>
> Sometimes adult education is the best kept secret in the neighborhood.
> -Miriam Kroeger
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
> On Behalf Of Katrina Hinson
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 5:26 AM
> To: assessment at nifl.gov; tsticht at znet.com
> Subject: [Assessment 1338] Re: Tests vs. Self Assessments of Literacy
>
> In his reply, Mr. Sticht wrote:
> "It seems to me to be a national shame to spend billions of dollars to
> leave no children behind, while largely ignoring the desperate need of
> the children's parents and leaving them behind. How can this be an
> inspiration to children to pursue their own education? How can parents
> who cannot read be their children's first reading teachers? Conceivably,
> if we invested more in the education of poorly educated adults, we could
> influence the educability of the adult's children."
>
> I think this is one of the key components that's missing in alot of
> adult literacy programs especially in rural areas across the  US.
> Ironically, alot of adult literacy programs are unable to partner with
> school systems depending on how or who governs the adult literacy
> program. I know in my state, public schools in some areas see us as
> direct competition with them rather than an asset - rather than see us
> as a resource to help parents, we're the 'bad guys' who take students
> from their classrooms - which is definitely not the case.
>
> Parents are one of the greatest influences on children of any age. If
> parents don't have a strong academic background, then he/she may not see
> the value of encouraging their children to stay in school or achieve in
> school and may be unable to help his or her child achieve. Likewise,
> they may even be unable to  locate community resources that would help
> their children like after school learning programs or tutoring options.
> There is a lot to be said about having better educated parents  so that
> those parents can have a positive impact on the future of their
> children.
>
> The biggest hurdle though is how to remove barriers between adult
> literacy programs and public schools (at least for me where I'm
> located). Wouldn't it be great if teachers of low performing students
> who had met with the parents and knew that the parents didn't have a HS
> education or had not completed a HS education (that is asked on entry
> paperwork at the beginning of the school year when we send our kids to
> school - they ask 'highest education level" of the parents) provided
> information on local literacy programs that the parents might could
> attend?  Think about the impact on a child who could see his or her mom
> or dad learning and realize the importance of learning for themselves as
> well? I don't know how to get there, but I do think it's something that
> would make a positive impact on how ever children learn if we help the
> parents learn as well.
>
> Regards,
> Katrina Hinson
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to miriam.kroeger at azed.gov
>
> NOTICE: This e-mail (and any attachments) may contain PRIVILEGED OR
> CONFIDENTIAL information and is intended only for the use of the
> specific individual(s) to whom it is addressed.  It may contain
> information that is privileged and confidential under state and federal
> law.  This information may be used or disclosed only in accordance with
> law, and you may be subject to penalties under law for improper use or
> further disclosure of the information in this e-mail and its
> attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, please
> immediately notify the person named above by reply e-mail, and then
> delete the original e-mail.  Thank you.
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>


From joanne.egan at verizon.net  Tue Jun 17 11:01:32 2008
From: joanne.egan at verizon.net (Joanne Baillie Egan)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:01:32 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Assessment 1343] Re: collaboration with K-12
Message-ID: <30538041.19031811213714892321.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>

I have been very interested to read the ideas on this list about working 
with schools.  Not many of the leaners in our program have young 
children, so I don't know how well we could work the angle of our 
services having impact on their work.  Still, I really like the idea of 
collaboration, and I think that distributing flyers at schools could 
reach so many adults that aren't being served.

Katrina mentioned some schools seeing Adult Ed as competition (and I've 
read elsewhere about that tension between some high schools and ABE/ASE 
programs.)  She pointed out that some schools may perceive Adult Ed as 
stealing students out of their system.  This is interesting to me, as 
I've often encountered a different source of tension:  Staff at many 
Adult Ed programs have witnessed h.s. guidance counselors who actually 
encourage some students to drop out, saying students can always get 
their GED later.  I know of a few programs in my state who have reached 
out to schools with the message that passing the GED isn't a walk in the 
park and that staying in school is usually a far better option!

Either way, it seems to me that greater collaboration between Adult Ed 
and K-12 could be of benefit to both.


Joanne Baillie Egan
Intake/Assessment Specialist
Learning Is For Tomorrow, Inc.
7 S Wolfe St
Baltimore, MD  21231
410-522-1705


On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 12:58 PM, Anderson, Philip wrote:

> To add to Miriam's thoughts, we in Florida strongly encourage adult
> education programs to pay a brief, upbeat visit when school starts in
> the fall, and again in January to the K12 schools to give flyers about
> the adult education program, the new schedule of classes, and to talk
> personally with the principal or designee.  Building a positive
> relationship with a contact at the district level and in each school 
> is
> so important.  Teacher recruiting opportunities arise in the K12
> schools, and it can work well when circumstances lead to the evening
> adult education instructor teaching the parents of their daytime K12 
> ELL
> students.   Schools are glad to send fliers home with children that
> market the adult education classes, especially when the adult 
> education
> staff delivers them collated into neat packages for each classroom.
> My experience working in rural areas of central Florida is that 
> teachers
> and administrators in the K-12 system become so overwhelmed with
> mandates from all sides, any effort to collaborate works better when 
> it
> is portrayed as a realistic way to help them achieve their goals with 
> a
> minimal investment of time and resources on their part.  Especially 
> this
> year, with Florida's drastic cutbacks in K12 school funding and the 
> loss
> of teachers in every school, our adult education programs will be very
> effective in helping K12 schools achieve their goals.  We know who the
> parents are, and we know how to help them build a home environment 
> that
> fosters learning for all. We know adult education is win-win-win-win 
> for
> parents, kids, employers and school systems.  There are many ways to
> design our package to show our partners how they stand to gain in big
> ways from using our services.
>
> CONTACT INFORMATION
> Philip Anderson
> Adult ESOL Program
> Florida Department of Education
> Tel (850) 245-9450
> Philip.anderson at fldoe.org
>
>
>
> Please take a few minutes to provide feedback on the quality of 
> service you received from our staff. The Department of Education 
> values your feedback as a customer. Commissioner of Education Dr. Eric 
> J. Smith is committed to continuously assessing and improving the 
> level and quality of services provided to you.Simply use the link 
> below.  Thank you in advance for completing the survey.
>
>
> 
> http://data.fldoe.org/cs/default.cfm?staff=Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org|12:58:16%20Tue%2010%20Jun%202008
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: Kroeger, Miriam [mailto:Miriam.Kroeger at azed.gov] Sent: Tuesday, 
> June 10, 2008 10:52 AM
> To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
> Subject: [Assessment 1339] Re: Tests vs. Self Assessments of Literacy
>
> You might also want to ask your adult students if they have children 
> in
> school, what grades, and of course what schools.  Ask them how their
> children are doing.  For persistent adult ed learners - keep track of
> these "informal" stats, particularly if the children are attending a
> school/schools close to your adult ed program.  Then introduce 
> yourself
> to the principal and tell him/her that several of your adult learners
> have children at the elementary school, and they are reporting that 
> the
> children are doing well, or improving.  Does the principal see this?,
> the children's teachers?  Do they think there might be a correlation?
> Would they want to work with you on a little "research project" to
> confirm this??
>
> Sometimes adult education is the best kept secret in the neighborhood.
> -Miriam Kroeger
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
> On Behalf Of Katrina Hinson
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 5:26 AM
> To: assessment at nifl.gov; tsticht at znet.com
> Subject: [Assessment 1338] Re: Tests vs. Self Assessments of Literacy
>
> In his reply, Mr. Sticht wrote:
> "It seems to me to be a national shame to spend billions of dollars to
> leave no children behind, while largely ignoring the desperate need of
> the children's parents and leaving them behind. How can this be an
> inspiration to children to pursue their own education? How can parents
> who cannot read be their children's first reading teachers? 
> Conceivably,
> if we invested more in the education of poorly educated adults, we 
> could
> influence the educability of the adult's children."
>
> I think this is one of the key components that's missing in alot of
> adult literacy programs especially in rural areas across the  US.
> Ironically, alot of adult literacy programs are unable to partner with
> school systems depending on how or who governs the adult literacy
> program. I know in my state, public schools in some areas see us as
> direct competition with them rather than an asset - rather than see us
> as a resource to help parents, we're the 'bad guys' who take students
> from their classrooms - which is definitely not the case.
>
> Parents are one of the greatest influences on children of any age. If
> parents don't have a strong academic background, then he/she may not 
> see
> the value of encouraging their children to stay in school or achieve 
> in
> school and may be unable to help his or her child achieve. Likewise,
> they may even be unable to  locate community resources that would help
> their children like after school learning programs or tutoring 
> options.
> There is a lot to be said about having better educated parents  so 
> that
> those parents can have a positive impact on the future of their
> children.
>
> The biggest hurdle though is how to remove barriers between adult
> literacy programs and public schools (at least for me where I'm
> located). Wouldn't it be great if teachers of low performing students
> who had met with the parents and knew that the parents didn't have a 
> HS
> education or had not completed a HS education (that is asked on entry
> paperwork at the beginning of the school year when we send our kids to
> school - they ask 'highest education level" of the parents) provided
> information on local literacy programs that the parents might could
> attend?  Think about the impact on a child who could see his or her 
> mom
> or dad learning and realize the importance of learning for themselves 
> as
> well? I don't know how to get there, but I do think it's something 
> that
> would make a positive impact on how ever children learn if we help the
> parents learn as well.
>
> Regards,
> Katrina Hinson
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to miriam.kroeger at azed.gov
>
> NOTICE: This e-mail (and any attachments) may contain PRIVILEGED OR
> CONFIDENTIAL information and is intended only for the use of the
> specific individual(s) to whom it is addressed.  It may contain
> information that is privileged and confidential under state and 
> federal
> law.  This information may be used or disclosed only in accordance 
> with
> law, and you may be subject to penalties under law for improper use or
> further disclosure of the information in this e-mail and its
> attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, please
> immediately notify the person named above by reply e-mail, and then
> delete the original e-mail.  Thank you.
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to joanne.egan at verizon.net


From macsimoin at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 18 18:47:06 2008
From: macsimoin at hotmail.com (Mary Lynn Simons)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:47:06 +0000
Subject: [Assessment 1344] Re: collaboration with K-12
In-Reply-To: <30538041.19031811213714892321.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
References: <30538041.19031811213714892321.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
Message-ID: <BAY115-W52712F0D1B3EB9FB056EA4BFAB0@phx.gbl>


Yes, this is an idea that the public and guidance counselors must get out of their heads: the GED is not "a walk in the park". The GED is normed so that one-third of high school graduates cannot pass it. If we consider a low-performing school, it is more like 50% or 60% who cannot pass the GED. Struggling students should stay in school, regular or continuation, to get as many credits as possible. Then, if they still do not succeed, they can go to an adult school to complete their credits; however, if they find learning difficult, the GED is not for them. The GED is more difficult than high school exit exams, which some states have. I am a GED/HSD teacher in California and I can definitely tell you that the GED is more difficult than the California High School Exit Examination. Also, since California is a low performing state, I can say confidently that far more than 30% of high school graduates in California cannot pass the GED. People should also know that the GED was made more difficult in 2002, and it will continue to change in the future. As high school graduates improve, and they are improving throughout the country, the GED will become more difficult accordingly. 
----------------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:01:32 -0500
> From: joanne.egan at verizon.net
> To: assessment at nifl.gov
> CC: assessment at nifl.gov
> Subject: [Assessment 1343] Re: collaboration with K-12
> 
> I have been very interested to read the ideas on this list about working 
> with schools.  Not many of the leaners in our program have young 
> children, so I don't know how well we could work the angle of our 
> services having impact on their work.  Still, I really like the idea of 
> collaboration, and I think that distributing flyers at schools could 
> reach so many adults that aren't being served.
> 
> Katrina mentioned some schools seeing Adult Ed as competition (and I've 
> read elsewhere about that tension between some high schools and ABE/ASE 
> programs.)  She pointed out that some schools may perceive Adult Ed as 
> stealing students out of their system.  This is interesting to me, as 
> I've often encountered a different source of tension:  Staff at many 
> Adult Ed programs have witnessed h.s. guidance counselors who actually 
> encourage some students to drop out, saying students can always get 
> their GED later.  I know of a few programs in my state who have reached 
> out to schools with the message that passing the GED isn't a walk in the 
> park and that staying in school is usually a far better option!
> 
> Either way, it seems to me that greater collaboration between Adult Ed 
> and K-12 could be of benefit to both.
> 
> 
> Joanne Baillie Egan
> Intake/Assessment Specialist
> Learning Is For Tomorrow, Inc.
> 7 S Wolfe St
> Baltimore, MD  21231
> 410-522-1705
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 12:58 PM, Anderson, Philip wrote:
> 
>> To add to Miriam's thoughts, we in Florida strongly encourage adult
>> education programs to pay a brief, upbeat visit when school starts in
>> the fall, and again in January to the K12 schools to give flyers about
>> the adult education program, the new schedule of classes, and to talk
>> personally with the principal or designee.  Building a positive
>> relationship with a contact at the district level and in each school 
>> is
>> so important.  Teacher recruiting opportunities arise in the K12
>> schools, and it can work well when circumstances lead to the evening
>> adult education instructor teaching the parents of their daytime K12 
>> ELL
>> students.   Schools are glad to send fliers home with children that
>> market the adult education classes, especially when the adult 
>> education
>> staff delivers them collated into neat packages for each classroom.
>> My experience working in rural areas of central Florida is that 
>> teachers
>> and administrators in the K-12 system become so overwhelmed with
>> mandates from all sides, any effort to collaborate works better when 
>> it
>> is portrayed as a realistic way to help them achieve their goals with 
>> a
>> minimal investment of time and resources on their part.  Especially 
>> this
>> year, with Florida's drastic cutbacks in K12 school funding and the 
>> loss
>> of teachers in every school, our adult education programs will be very
>> effective in helping K12 schools achieve their goals.  We know who the
>> parents are, and we know how to help them build a home environment 
>> that
>> fosters learning for all. We know adult education is win-win-win-win 
>> for
>> parents, kids, employers and school systems.  There are many ways to
>> design our package to show our partners how they stand to gain in big
>> ways from using our services.
>>
>> CONTACT INFORMATION
>> Philip Anderson
>> Adult ESOL Program
>> Florida Department of Education
>> Tel (850) 245-9450
>> Philip.anderson at fldoe.org
>>
>>
>>
>> Please take a few minutes to provide feedback on the quality of 
>> service you received from our staff. The Department of Education 
>> values your feedback as a customer. Commissioner of Education Dr. Eric 
>> J. Smith is committed to continuously assessing and improving the 
>> level and quality of services provided to you.Simply use the link 
>> below.  Thank you in advance for completing the survey.
>>
>>
>> 
>> http://data.fldoe.org/cs/default.cfm?staff=Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org|12:58:16%20Tue%2010%20Jun%202008
>>
>>
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kroeger, Miriam [mailto:Miriam.Kroeger at azed.gov] Sent: Tuesday, 
>> June 10, 2008 10:52 AM
>> To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
>> Subject: [Assessment 1339] Re: Tests vs. Self Assessments of Literacy
>>
>> You might also want to ask your adult students if they have children 
>> in
>> school, what grades, and of course what schools.  Ask them how their
>> children are doing.  For persistent adult ed learners - keep track of
>> these "informal" stats, particularly if the children are attending a
>> school/schools close to your adult ed program.  Then introduce 
>> yourself
>> to the principal and tell him/her that several of your adult learners
>> have children at the elementary school, and they are reporting that 
>> the
>> children are doing well, or improving.  Does the principal see this?,
>> the children's teachers?  Do they think there might be a correlation?
>> Would they want to work with you on a little "research project" to
>> confirm this??
>>
>> Sometimes adult education is the best kept secret in the neighborhood.
>> -Miriam Kroeger
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
>> On Behalf Of Katrina Hinson
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 5:26 AM
>> To: assessment at nifl.gov; tsticht at znet.com
>> Subject: [Assessment 1338] Re: Tests vs. Self Assessments of Literacy
>>
>> In his reply, Mr. Sticht wrote:
>> "It seems to me to be a national shame to spend billions of dollars to
>> leave no children behind, while largely ignoring the desperate need of
>> the children's parents and leaving them behind. How can this be an
>> inspiration to children to pursue their own education? How can parents
>> who cannot read be their children's first reading teachers? 
>> Conceivably,
>> if we invested more in the education of poorly educated adults, we 
>> could
>> influence the educability of the adult's children."
>>
>> I think this is one of the key components that's missing in alot of
>> adult literacy programs especially in rural areas across the  US.
>> Ironically, alot of adult literacy programs are unable to partner with
>> school systems depending on how or who governs the adult literacy
>> program. I know in my state, public schools in some areas see us as
>> direct competition with them rather than an asset - rather than see us
>> as a resource to help parents, we're the 'bad guys' who take students
>> from their classrooms - which is definitely not the case.
>>
>> Parents are one of the greatest influences on children of any age. If
>> parents don't have a strong academic background, then he/she may not 
>> see
>> the value of encouraging their children to stay in school or achieve 
>> in
>> school and may be unable to help his or her child achieve. Likewise,
>> they may even be unable to  locate community resources that would help
>> their children like after school learning programs or tutoring 
>> options.
>> There is a lot to be said about having better educated parents  so 
>> that
>> those parents can have a positive impact on the future of their
>> children.
>>
>> The biggest hurdle though is how to remove barriers between adult
>> literacy programs and public schools (at least for me where I'm
>> located). Wouldn't it be great if teachers of low performing students
>> who had met with the parents and knew that the parents didn't have a 
>> HS
>> education or had not completed a HS education (that is asked on entry
>> paperwork at the beginning of the school year when we send our kids to
>> school - they ask 'highest education level" of the parents) provided
>> information on local literacy programs that the parents might could
>> attend?  Think about the impact on a child who could see his or her 
>> mom
>> or dad learning and realize the importance of learning for themselves 
>> as
>> well? I don't know how to get there, but I do think it's something 
>> that
>> would make a positive impact on how ever children learn if we help the
>> parents learn as well.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Katrina Hinson
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to miriam.kroeger at azed.gov
>>
>> NOTICE: This e-mail (and any attachments) may contain PRIVILEGED OR
>> CONFIDENTIAL information and is intended only for the use of the
>> specific individual(s) to whom it is addressed.  It may contain
>> information that is privileged and confidential under state and 
>> federal
>> law.  This information may be used or disclosed only in accordance 
>> with
>> law, and you may be subject to penalties under law for improper use or
>> further disclosure of the information in this e-mail and its
>> attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, please
>> immediately notify the person named above by reply e-mail, and then
>> delete the original e-mail.  Thank you.
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to joanne.egan at verizon.net
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to macsimoin at hotmail.com

_________________________________________________________________
Need to know now? Get instant answers with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_062008

From djrosen at comcast.net  Fri Jun 20 08:07:36 2008
From: djrosen at comcast.net (David J. Rosen)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:07:36 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1345]  Discussion on Professional Wisdom
Message-ID: <5E460B91-A34C-4B4F-A3ED-31BF723F9CF9@comcast.net>

Colleagues,

We would like to invite you to join us in a discussion about  
professional wisdom that we will be holding on the AAACE-NLA   
discussion list from June 23rd to June 27th.

In November last year,  we (John Comings and David J. Rosen) had a  
series of email exchanges because we believe it is important for our  
field to come to agreement on how professional wisdom might be used  
as part of evidence-based practice. We discussed how our field might  
build a model for achieving a body of professional wisdom that  
teachers and administrators might use to improve basic skills  
teaching, learning and programs for adults.

On June 23rd and June 24th we will post that discussion on the AAACE- 
NLA discussion list in two parts. From June 25th-June 27th we will  
welcome your questions and comments.

Please pass this invitation on to your colleagues who might like to  
join us, too.  To subscribe to the AAACE-NLA Discussion List, go to:

http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla

Once there, scroll down the page and follow the subscription directions.

John Comings

David J. Rosen





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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Fri Jun 20 09:18:24 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:18:24 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1346]  Discussion on Special Topics
Message-ID: <05fa01c8d2d8$1f4fc6f0$0702a8c0@LITNOW>

Hello everyone, I hope this email finds you well.
 
I wanted to alert folks to the discussion that is winding down on the
Special Topics List - it has been focused on content standards.  There
have been some posts this past couple days that are focusing on student
assessment - the GED, and CASAS are being talked about right now for
example.  I thought I would let you know in case anyone would like to
either subscribe or read the archives.  Or post your own two cents!
 
If you would like to either subscribe yourself or read the archives, go
to:
 
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/specialtopics
 
Thanks!
 
Marie
 
 
 
Marie Cora
 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
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From info at nifl.gov  Thu Jun 26 10:20:46 2008
From: info at nifl.gov (info at nifl.gov)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:20:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Assessment 1347]  Institute Director Search Underway
Message-ID: <20080626142046.B26D011C41@mail.nifl.gov>

Institute Director Search Underway

About the position: 
The Director of the National Institute for Literacy works with the Institute's Interagency Group, in consultation with the Advisory Board, in determining priorities and work projects related to the national effort to improve literacy. The Director supervises and guides the Institute's staff of sixteen employees using a variety of leadership skills to encourage a high performance workplace, develop staff leadership capacity, and promote flexibility to ensure that the Institute thrives in a changing environment. The Director ensures that agency administrative, management, and contracting processes are executed in accordance with the Institute's Interagency Agreement and federal regulations and policies. 

The Director serves as the senior staff person for the Interagency Group and Advisory Board to ensure the Institute fulfills its role as a leader in the field by keeping abreast of major research findings and innovations in education. The Director serves as a spokesperson for literacy issues and the Institute's liaison with literacy organizations. The Director guides strategic planning efforts, assesses future needs for projects and activities, and provides comprehensive recommendations on long-range project planning to the Interagency Group and the Advisory Board.

To learn more about the position or to apply: http://www.nifl.gov/nifl/career/NIFL_vacancy_11.html 

For additional information about the Institute and its staff, please visit the National Institute for Literacy website: 
http://www.nifl.gov 

 


From Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org  Wed Jun 25 10:54:07 2008
From: Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org (Anderson, Philip)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:54:07 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1348]  TABE CLAS-E
Message-ID: <96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E18E1ED22@MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>

To: Assessment Listserv Community:

 

You probably are aware that the new assessment for adult English
language learners published by McGraw Hill, called TABE CLAS-E (Test of
Adult Basic Education, Complete Language Assessment - English) has
recently been approved for use the USDOE for purposes of reporting to
the National Reporting System.  

 

In Florida, we are reviewing the test for adoption by our state board of
education as an approved assessment for our adult ELL programs.  We will
be convening a group of practitioners familiar with adult ELL assessment
from around the state as an advisory group to make recommendations to
the state.   If the state adds this test to its list of approved
assessments for reporting purposes, it may also specify which skills the
programs should test the students in (reading, writing, listening, and
speaking), since the test offers these options.  

 

It would be interesting to hear about the experiences of programs that
have begun to use it.  Of course, comments from anyone who has knowledge
of the test itself, but may not be using it in a program setting, are
welcome as well. 

 

Philip Anderson

Adult ESOL Program Specialist

Division of Workforce Education

Florida Department of Education

Tel (850) 245-9450
 

Please take a few minutes to provide feedback on the quality of service you received from our staff. The Department of Education values your feedback as a customer. Commissioner of Education Dr. Eric J. Smith is committed to continuously assessing and improving the level and quality of services provided to you.Simply use the link below.  Thank you in advance for completing the survey.
 

http://data.fldoe.org/cs/default.cfm?staff=Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org|10:54:10%20Wed%2025%20Jun%202008
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From ABeck at LVCCReads.org  Thu Jun 26 14:37:08 2008
From: ABeck at LVCCReads.org (Ann Beck)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:37:08 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1349] Re: TABE CLAS-E
In-Reply-To: <96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E18E1ED22@MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>
Message-ID: <003301c8d7bb$a4205e20$4500a8c0@Director>

Our organization participated in the field testing of the TABE CLAS-E. We
like lots of it and I have not seen the final version, but two things came
up during our testing. First, it was too difficult for many of our entry
level learners. Second, it was extremely time consuming to do all the skill
sub-tests. We do not use any standardized tests in our program because we
can't afford them and most of our teaching is done one-to-one by trained
volunteers. The TABE CLAS-E was attractive though.
Ann Beck
The Literacy Center
Flagstaff, AZ

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Anderson, Philip
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 7:54 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1348] TABE CLAS-E



To: Assessment Listserv Community:

You probably are aware that the new assessment for adult English language
learners published by McGraw Hill, called TABE CLAS-E (Test of Adult Basic
Education, Complete Language Assessment - English) has recently been
approved for use the USDOE for purposes of reporting to the National
Reporting System.  

In Florida, we are reviewing the test for adoption by our state board of
education as an approved assessment for our adult ELL programs.  We will be
convening a group of practitioners familiar with adult ELL assessment from
around the state as an advisory group to make recommendations to the state.
If the state adds this test to its list of approved assessments for
reporting purposes, it may also specify which skills the programs should
test the students in (reading, writing, listening, and speaking), since the
test offers these options.  

It would be interesting to hear about the experiences of programs that have
begun to use it.  Of course, comments from anyone who has knowledge of the
test itself, but may not be using it in a program setting, are welcome as
well. 

Philip Anderson

Adult ESOL Program Specialist

Division of Workforce Education

Florida Department of Education

Tel (850) 245-9450

 
Please take a few minutes to provide feedback on the quality of service you
received from our staff. The Department of Education values your feedback as
a customer. Commissioner of Education Dr. Eric J. Smith is committed to
continuously assessing and improving the level and quality of services
provided to you. Simply click on the link to the "DOE Customer Survey."
Thank you in advance for completing the survey. 
 
 
<http://data.fldoe.org/cs/default.cfm?staff=Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org|10:54:
10 Wed 25 Jun 2008> DOE Customer Survey 
 
 
 
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From martha.jo.markey at desoto.k12.fl.us  Thu Jun 26 16:36:38 2008
From: martha.jo.markey at desoto.k12.fl.us (Markey, Martha Jo)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:36:38 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1350] Re: TABE CLAS-E
In-Reply-To: <96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E18E1ED22@MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>
Message-ID: <D48C657925B3C74A8BA720D37CFFFE46079BB286@EXCHANGE1.local.desoto.k12.fl.us>

Phil,

 

As always, thank you for keeping us in the loop.

 

I do have one question as we prepare for these changes...will this
correlate in any way to those students who are preparing for the GED in
Spanish?

 

We don't have many, but it difficult to ascertain a level of functioning
for those students who may be preparing for this test.  We rely on
published materials at this point and would be interested in knowing of
any other "tests or materials" are available.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Martha Jo 

 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Anderson, Philip
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:54 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1348] TABE CLAS-E

 

To: Assessment Listserv Community:

 

You probably are aware that the new assessment for adult English
language learners published by McGraw Hill, called TABE CLAS-E (Test of
Adult Basic Education, Complete Language Assessment - English) has
recently been approved for use the USDOE for purposes of reporting to
the National Reporting System.  

 

In Florida, we are reviewing the test for adoption by our state board of
education as an approved assessment for our adult ELL programs.  We will
be convening a group of practitioners familiar with adult ELL assessment
from around the state as an advisory group to make recommendations to
the state.   If the state adds this test to its list of approved
assessments for reporting purposes, it may also specify which skills the
programs should test the students in (reading, writing, listening, and
speaking), since the test offers these options.  

 

It would be interesting to hear about the experiences of programs that
have begun to use it.  Of course, comments from anyone who has knowledge
of the test itself, but may not be using it in a program setting, are
welcome as well. 

 

Philip Anderson

Adult ESOL Program Specialist

Division of Workforce Education

Florida Department of Education

Tel (850) 245-9450

 

 

Please take a few minutes to provide feedback on the quality of service
you received from our staff. The Department of Education values your
feedback as a customer. Commissioner of Education Dr. Eric J. Smith is
committed to continuously assessing and improving the level and quality
of services provided to you. Simply click on the link to the "DOE
Customer Survey."  Thank you in advance for completing the survey. 

 

DOE Customer Survey
<http://data.fldoe.org/cs/default.cfm?staff=Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org|10
:54:10%20Wed%2025%20Jun%202008>  

 

 

 

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From caalusa at earthlink.net  Fri Jun 27 06:22:53 2008
From: caalusa at earthlink.net (gspangenberg@caalusa.org)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:22:53 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: [Assessment 1351] National Commission on Adult Literacy Final Report
Message-ID: <16701127.1214562174003.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Colleagues,

On behalf of the National Commission on Adult Literacy, its study director Cheryl King, and its chairman David Perdue, I am pleased to alert you to the final report of the National Commission on Adult Literacy, titled Reach Higher, America: Overcoming Crisis in the U.S. Workforce. Please note that this report was released at an event at the U.S. Capitol in Washington, D.C. yesterday. You may obtain a PDF copy, related materials, and instructions for ordering a hardcopy from www.nationalcommissiononadultliteracy.org. 

Gail Spangenberg
Commissioner, National Commission on Adult Literacy
(President, Council for Advancement of Adult Literacy)
1221 Avenue of the Americas - 46th Floor
New York, NY 10020
212-512-2363
www.nationalcommissiononadultliteracy.org
www.caalusa.org


From jataylor at utk.edu  Tue Jul  1 18:51:29 2008
From: jataylor at utk.edu (Taylor, Jackie)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:51:29 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1352] Student Involvement and Critical Thinking in
	Adult Literacy - Discussion July 7-14
Message-ID: <0913EC48F2B05C4FBE4878BAFCABBFEC024D098D@KFSVS2.utk.tennessee.edu>

Dear Colleagues:

 

What do you do in your teaching that empowers students? Why do you do
that? Why does it matter?

 

Beginning July 7 - 14, 2008 the Adult Literacy Professional Development
List will host a guest discussion of Student Involvement and Critical
Thinking in Adult Literacy. Join our guests, Cynthia Peters, Editor of
The Change Agent, and Marty Finsterbusch, Executive Director of VALUE,
to share issues, strategies, and resources for instruction and staff
development. 

 

This discussion is the first in a mini-series of guest discussions this
summer and fall on Literacy for Social Change. Join us now to plan
instruction and staff development for fall. 

 

To participate, subscribe by visiting:
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/Professionaldevelopment 

(Subscribing is free and you can unsubscribe after the discussion ends.)

 

=======================================

 

Discussion Resources

 

Resources subscribers share will be compiled and posted at the week's
end. Some resources for discussion include:

 

http://www.nelrc.org/changeagent/ 

-- The Change Agent Web site, see any issue including the most recent on
Democracy in Action.

 

http://www.valueusa.org/

-- Web site of Voice of Adult Learners United to Educate 

 

http://wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Learner_Leadership

-- See the Adult Learner Leadership Resources section, including:

 

*         How to Start and Support a Student Council at Your Program

http://www.sabes.org/administration/studentcouncils.htm 

 

*         Adult Learners as Leaders (from NJALL)

http://www.njall.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=36&Itemid
=60 

 

*         Massachusetts Alliance for Adult Literacy

http://www.sabes.org/student/massaal.htm 

 

*         Student Leadership Resources

http://www.sabes.org/student/student-resources.htm 

 

*         Student Leadership Field Notes, Volume 16 No. 2

http://www.sabes.org/resources/publications/fieldnotes/vol16/fn162.pdf

 

*         Learner Perspectives on the Adult Literacy Education (ALE)
Wiki

          http://wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Learner_Perspectives 

 

=======================================

 

About Our Guests

 

Cynthia Peters is the editor of The Change Agent
(http://www.nelrc.org/changeagent/), a magazine focused on fostering
critical thinking and student engagement.



Cynthia Peters is a former ESOL and ABE teacher with a union-based
program. She is also a long-time community activist who has been
involved in tenants' rights, anti-war, and many other struggles. As the
editor of The Change Agent, she brings her teaching experience together
with her activism and works to create materials that give students the
tools to think critically about issues that affect them and their
families. 



Marty Finsterbusch is the Executive Director of Voice of Adult Learners
United to Educate (VALUE), a national adult learner leader organization.

 

In 2001, Marty Finsterbusch was appointed VALUE's first Executive
Director. VALUE, www.valueusa.org <http://www.valueusa.org/> , is the
only national nonprofit adult literacy organization in the U.S. governed
and operated by current and former literacy students. Under his
leadership, the organization has developed and delivered leadership
training throughout the U.S.; conducted five biennial National Adult
Learner Leadership Institutes; and achieved national prominence as the
authority on learner involvement in adult literacy. In 2008, VALUE
launched its Social Change Initiative, which calls for the modernization
and expansion of adult basic education in the U.S. to better serve our
nation's 90 million low-literate adults.

 

Since 2000, Marty has served on Pennsylvania's Adult Basic and Literacy
Education Interagency Coordinating Council, having been appointed by
three Governors. During his National Institute for Literacy Fellowship
in 2000, Marty studied adult learner involvement in all 50 states. He
has served on the governing boards of several national and state
organizations including the Student Coalition for Action in Literacy
Education (SCALE), Laubach Literacy Action, and Pennsylvania's State
Coalition for Literacy. 

 

Before becoming VALUE's Executive Director in 2001, Marty worked 17
years in food service at Villanova University, supervising a staff of 80
employees. He entered a local literacy program as an adult learner in
1984 and then earned a degree in Hotel-Restaurant Management. Marty
became the Student Coordinator of his local literacy program in 1986,
after which he served ten years on its board of directors. Since 1987,
Marty has been a planner, speaker, and workshop presenter for numerous
national, regional, and state conferences throughout the U.S. Marty is
married and has three daughters, ages 14, 12, and 6.

 

=======================================

 

 

-- I hope you'll join us! Until then...Jackie
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jackie Taylor, Adult Literacy Professional Development List Moderator,
jataylor at utk.edu  
National Institute for Literacy http://www.nifl.gov/
Association of Adult Literacy Professional Developers
http://www.aalpd.org/

 

To participate, subscribe by visiting:
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/Professionaldevelopment

 

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From Ingrid.RodrickBeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov  Thu Jul 10 10:08:10 2008
From: Ingrid.RodrickBeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov (Rodrick Beiler, Ingrid)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:08:10 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1353] Pre- / post-testing options for ESOL
	literacy-level students
Message-ID: <A7148849DCAEBF49AC570F46BD76F6C5017440D3@MCG-EXB04.mcgov.org>

Hello

I am looking for low-cost options for pre- and post-testing
literacy-level adult ESOL students. Does anyone have suggestions? It
does not need to be a major standardized test.

Thanks,
Ingrid Rodrick Beiler

Ingrid Rodrick Beiler
ESOL Coordinator
Linkages to Learning
51 Monroe Street, Suite 1700
Rockville, MD 20850
Phone: (240) 777-1110
Fax: (240) 777-1111
ingrid.rodrickbeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov

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From Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org  Thu Jul 10 13:33:21 2008
From: Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org (Anderson, Philip)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 13:33:21 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1354] Re: Pre- / post-testing options for
	ESOLliteracy-level students
In-Reply-To: <A7148849DCAEBF49AC570F46BD76F6C5017440D3@MCG-EXB04.mcgov.org>
Message-ID: <96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E19586CF4@MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>

Ingrid, 

 

Are these ESOL Literacy-level students able to read and write in their
home language?  If not, Florida practitioners have developed a placement
tool and a set of instructional standards designed for students who are
beginning to learn to read and write for the first time in any language.
You can find these documents at the Florida Department of Education,
Office of Adult Education website and the Florida Adult ESOL
Practitioners' Task Force website.

 

The method that Florida programs use to show learning gains for these
low-literacy level students is by using the benchmarks of the Literacy
Skills course.  When a student has "satisfactorily" mastered the
benchmarks of the course standards, the program provides documentation
of that "learning gain" to the state.  This course is not funded with
federal dollars, so we do not require the program to use a "major
standardized test" to show learning gains.   We do recommend that local
programs develop their own assessment procedures for use at their
program.  This is to ensure that all students are assessed using the
same procedures.  Some programs use textbook tests with portfolio work
to show student learning gains.

 

I would welcome hearing from other programs with literacy level
students.  This area is new ground for us, and we have a larger number
of students each year that are at the literacy level.  Any ideas from
others can certainly help.

 

Native Language Literacy Screening Tool

FL DOE WEBSITE:  http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/pdf/vocscr.pdf 

TASK FORCE WEBSITE:
http://www.floridaadultesol.org/Downloads/WordDocs/nativeLanguageLiterac
y.doc 

 

Literacy for Adult ESOL Learners course

FL DOE WEBSITE:  http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/dwdframe/ad_frame.asp 

TASK FORCE WEBSITE: http://www.floridaadultesol.org/studentSyllabi.html 

 

User Guide for Literacy Skills for Adult ESOL Learners course

TASK FORCE WEBSITE: http://www.floridaadultesol.org/userGuides.html 

 

CONTACT INFORMATION

Philip Anderson

Adult ESOL Program

Florida Department of Education

Tel (850) 245-9450


 

Please take a few minutes to provide feedback on the quality of service you received from our staff. The Department of Education values your feedback as a customer. Commissioner of Education Dr. Eric J. Smith is committed to continuously assessing and improving the level and quality of services provided to you.Simply use the link below.  Thank you in advance for completing the survey.
 

http://data.fldoe.org/cs/default.cfm?staff=Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org|13:33:22%20Thu%2010%20Jul%202008
 



 ________________________________

From: Rodrick Beiler, Ingrid
[mailto:Ingrid.RodrickBeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov] 
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 10:08 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1353] Pre- / post-testing options for
ESOLliteracy-level students

 

Hello 

I am looking for low-cost options for pre- and post-testing
literacy-level adult ESOL students. Does anyone have suggestions? It
does not need to be a major standardized test.

Thanks, 
Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 

Ingrid Rodrick Beiler 
ESOL Coordinator 
Linkages to Learning 
51 Monroe Street, Suite 1700 
Rockville, MD 20850 
Phone: (240) 777-1110 
Fax: (240) 777-1111 
ingrid.rodrickbeiler at montgomerycountymd.gov
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From forrest at crosslink.net  Thu Jul 10 16:42:39 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 16:42:39 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1355] Misconceptions about the "Reach Higher America"
	report
Message-ID: <000001c8e2cd$8119bda0$834d38e0$@net>

Dear Colleagues,

 

There has been quite a bit of discussion on various Adult Education -related
listservs about the recent report of the National Commission on Adult
Literacy, "Reach Higher America." I, for one, am delighted that the report
has aroused so much interest, and a robust discussion of its findings can
only benefit the field, as well as anyone who may wish to act on those
findings.

 

In some of the postings, however, I have found what I believe are a number
of misconceptions about what the report says and its implications that I
fear may needlessly distract the discussion. I would like to do what I can
to sort those out. 

 

In doing so, I want to make clear that, although I have been affiliated with
the Council for the Advancement of Adult Literacy,  I had very little to do
with the National Commission on Adult Literacy or its report. This was
partly because I had prior commitments to do a lot of ESL research that
overlapped the Commission's term, and partly because I didn't think Gail
Spangenberg, Cheryl King, and the Commissioners needed any help from me.
(Too many cooks, etc.)  My only input was to testify to the Commission on
ESL, meet with a group of commissioners and staff to discuss
(inconclusively) a few key issues for half a day, and provide advice on
drafting issues (some of which was followed and some of which wasn't).  As a
result, in most respects I read "Reach Higher America" in the same way that
you do - as an informed outsider. Certainly, I can't speak for the
Commission about it or for CAAL as the Commission's agent, nor do I wish to
do so.

 

With that long preface, I would like to address three issues that I believe
are needlessly clouding consideration of the report by members of the Adult
Education field and other concerned parties.

 

1)      The notion that the Commission is advocating converting adult
education into a system that would SOLELY or primarily  have the goal of
workforce preparation/postsecondary transition. If this were true, I would
be concerned too. But if you read the report carefully, I think you will see
that this is simply NOT what it says

 

It is true that the report talks mainly about workforce preparation and
expanding AE to place more emphasis on this goal. But there is no place in
which it says that existing efforts in ABE, ASE, and ESL should be
diminished, or that workforce preparation should be the EXCLUSIVE goal of
the system. In fact, on page 22, it says the opposite. And it  singles out
family literacy, reducing waiting lists for ESL programs, increasing GED
completions, and other issues that are not strictly workforce-related as
priorities, and it emphasizes the importance of increased investment per
student, more supportive services, and greater investment in staff training
THROUGHT THE SYSTEM. 

 

Personally, I think the best way to read the Commission's emphasis on
workforce readiness is to say that increasing, enriching, and expanding the
AE system's role in workforce readiness is the goal that should have highest
priority right now - but not the exclusive goal. (Policy should be able to
chew gum and walk at the same time.) Why should workforce readiness have
particularly high priority? Well, because it is the function that the AE
system performs least well. The system has never been asked to do this, and
so it's no surprise (or cause for apology) that it doesn't do much of it. We
all know this. A large number of students come to AE programs with the goal
of getting better jobs, but most of the programs specifically designed to
help them in this regard are small and fragile. Likewise, the Commission
says it considers transition to postsecondary education to be a form of
workforce readiness. Again, although some programs make notable efforts to
facilitate this, they do so largely in spite of existing policy and systems
of funding. Only a tiny percentage of AE students make transitions. 

 

In short, we simply  have to build up the workforce readiness aspect of the
system. Why? Because, as the Commission so eloquently points out, there are
enormous benefits for adult learners and for the nation's economy if we do,
and enormous penalties for low-income, low skilled people, as well as
economy, if we don't. And only the AE system can take on this challenge. If
it doesn't, some other system will have to be devised to do so. That would
be a terrible waste, because the existing services provided by AE are part
of the pathway to workforce readiness. All we need to do is grow some
additional branches on the tree - something that many programs are trying to
do, but for which they are not receiving much support.

 

Anyway, that's how I read it, and I would invite you to see if it makes more
sense if YOU read it that way. 

 

In addition, there is another consideration. I personally believe that there
is precious little political support for any major expansion of AE services
or funding UNLESS the system can be tied to high priority national economic
goals. That doesn't mean that these must be the system's only goals. But
we've all beat our heads against a brick wall for decades trying to sell AE
in traditional terms, and we have too little to show for it. In contrast,
emphasizing the need to expand the workforce related aspects of the system
appears (thus far) to have enlisted allies in business, labor, and other
sectors of education we never had before. 

 

I doubt that the Commission was primarily motivated by this political
calculus. But it is important to remember that the Commissioners were a
highly diverse group of "outsiders." Few had an expert understanding of AE,
and (contrary to what has been said) most did not represent the business
community in any way. (It is true that Dollar General Corporation was the
largest single financial supporter of the effort, but they in no way
dictated its findings.) It is, therefore, telling that this group of
"outsiders" (with a little help from Commissioners Bob Bickerton, Sherrie
Claiborne, John Comings, and Sharon Darling) gravitated to an emphasis on
workforce preparation as the best way to expand AE. In fact, my own research
on recent major expansions of AE at the state level indicates that it has
invariably come about as a result of the desire of states to improve the
economic competitiveness (workforce readiness)of their workforces. And in
all cases I know of, this has NOT been a zero-sum game. A rising tide has
lifted all boats in the AE system.

 

2)       The notion that strengthening the workforce readiness aspect of AE
will in some way result in less emphasis on service to the lowest skilled
adults. I do not see how this can possibly be true. It is precisely the
lowest skilled adults who are most in need of workforce readiness services -
they are the population must likely to be locked into low-wage, low-skilled
jobs. No plan to increase the workforce preparation of adults can make a
dent in the problem without giving priority to their needs. It is certainly
true that many programs that have added special components to increase
employability by increasing transitions to postsecondary education and
specialized vocational programs usually recruit students at the intermediate
levels of ABE and ESL or GED graduates for those components. But that only
reinforces the imperative for workforce readiness efforts to emphasize
greater service to those with lower levels of skills. In the ESL field, for
example, the overwhelming majority of students are at the lowest skill
levels. There is no way that a stronger emphasis on workforce readiness can
succeed unless we greatly enhance our efforts to help those students advance
up the AE continuum. Otherwise, there simply will not be enough students to
take advantage of specialized workforce components. Moreover, it is by no
means clear that these kinds of specialized components are the only way to
improve workforce readiness. Career counseling, teaching "soft skills" (such
as the SCANS array), and infusing more work skills (as opposed to life
skills) into the curriculum can help broaden the options of students at all
levels.                     

 

In short, I do not see any way in which strengthening the workforce
readiness aspects of AE programs is inconsistent with serving the least
skilled adult learners, and I can find no place in "Reach Higher America"
where the Commission even suggests this. The traditional goal of adult
education has been to help as many students as possible ascend as far as
possible up the adult learning continuum. A stronger emphasis on workforce
readiness simply means offering students the opportunity to improve their
employability as they ascend that continuum. Some students may not wish to
take advantage of this opportunity. They will benefit from AE in other ways.
AE has always tried to serve many different learner goals, and as mentioned
above, "Reach Higher America" clearly considers all of them valid. In this
context, the contribution of the report is to emphasize the need to
strengthen service to students who have the goal of improving their
employment prospects - whatever their initial level of skills, and without
prejudice to other goals.        

 

3)      The notion that the Commission is advocating a change in the
governance of AE at the state or federal levels. This is simply not true. I
have read this report so many times I'm almost blind. There is NO PLACE in
the report where a change of governance is advocated. In fact, there is no
place in which governance is even discussed. It is not even mentioned in the
discussion of state planning (pp. 26-27). As far as he report is concerned,
states would be free to adopt any governance system for AE they want - as
they are now. The report simply encourages them to engage in more meaningful
inter-agency planning for the role AE in their states than they do now - a
requirement in present legislation that largely honored in the breach - as a
way of acknowledging that states have different needs and can legitimately
realize them in different ways. In this sense, the report reposes more
responsibility at the state level than the present system does. Likewise,
the issue of the governance of AE at the federal level is NOT DISCUSSED AT
ALL in the report. The Commission DOES appear to believe that it would be
advisable to get as many of the separate federal authorities and funding
streams as possible under a single legislative framework. But it is moot
about whether the existing system of divided administrative responsibility
at the federal level should be continued. Personally, I think it's too much
trouble to get into the turf wars of changing it, but that's just my view. 

 

I hope, that this overly long note will help to take some non-issues off the
table, and help you in your consideration of the report. There are a great
many very real and very tough issues that need sorting out before the
Commission's recommendations can become a reality. So I don't think we
should waste time debating problems that don't exist. The Commission will
certainly try to have its recommendations embodied in legislation, and it
will need the help of all of you, not only to do that but to do it right. So
I hope we can set aside these differences, or at least raise areas of
concern or uncertainty with Gail or others who understand the Commission's
intent better than I do, before rushing to conclusions. To encourage
readership and reach people outside the AE field, the report is very brief.
Unfortunately that means that some of its points may seem a bit cryptic to
those who read it with expert eyes. I hope that, when in doubt, you will ask
for clarification, rather than assume the worst. I know enough of the
Commissioners and staff to know that these people desperately want to help
the AE field in all of its aspects, and most of all the learners.

 

Forrest Chisman                           

 

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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Fri Jul 11 09:25:50 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:25:50 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1356]  Reach Higher America on Workplace Literacy List
Message-ID: <011301c8e359$a35b8e20$0702a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi everyone,
 
I just wanted to add this follow-up note to Forrest's recent post
regarding misconceptions with Reach Higher America.  There has been some
discussion on this topic on a couple of the National Institute for
Literacy's Discussions Lists - particularly the Workplace Literacy List.
To read the thread of that discussion, go to the Workplace archives at
http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/workplace/2008/date.html  and click on the
posts that have Reach Higher America in the subject line.  Feel free to
subscribe so you can join in that discussion as well (subscribe at
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/Workplace/). 
 
I'm curious to hear from subscribers what you think about this report.
What sort of implications might it have in terms of assessment of
students and accountability of programs - if you see any?  If the
recommendations of the report are put into effect, what types of tools,
structures or processes would we need to better conduct assessment of
students and accountability of programs?  Or perhaps we already have the
tools we need?  Or perhaps this movement will not affect the
assessment/testing/accountability angle at all?
 
What are your thoughts?
 
Thanks!
 
Marie
 
 
 
Marie Cora
 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
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From macsimoin at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 12:01:36 2008
From: macsimoin at hotmail.com (Mary Lynn Simons)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:01:36 +0000
Subject: [Assessment 1357] Re: Reach Higher America on Workplace Literacy
 List
In-Reply-To: <011301c8e359$a35b8e20$0702a8c0@LITNOW>
References: <011301c8e359$a35b8e20$0702a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <COL102-W363F13D146A72BCED93472BF900@phx.gbl>


Isn't this report just meaningless since there is little financial commitment to education by the government.
________________________________
> From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
> To: assessment at nifl.gov
> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:25:50 -0400
> Subject: [Assessment 1356] Reach Higher America on Workplace Literacy List
> 
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> 
> 
> I just wanted to add this follow-up note to Forrest?s recent post regarding misconceptions with Reach Higher America.  There has been some discussion on this topic on a couple of the National Institute for Literacy?s Discussions Lists ? particularly the Workplace Literacy List.  To read the thread of that discussion, go to the Workplace archives at http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/workplace/2008/date.html  and click on the posts that have Reach Higher America in the subject line.  Feel free to subscribe so you can join in that discussion as well (subscribe at http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/Workplace/).
> 
> 
> 
> I?m curious to hear from subscribers what you think about this report.  What sort of implications might it have in terms of assessment of students and accountability of programs ? if you see any?  If the recommendations of the report are put into effect, what types of tools, structures or processes would we need to better conduct assessment of students and accountability of programs?  Or perhaps we already have the tools we need?  Or perhaps this movement will not affect the assessment/testing/accountability angle at all?
> 
> 
> 
> What are your thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> Marie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marie Cora
> 
> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
> 
> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
> 
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

_________________________________________________________________
Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_072008

From forrest at crosslink.net  Fri Jul 11 15:56:35 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 15:56:35 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1358] Re: Reach Higher America on Workplace Literacy
	List
In-Reply-To: <COL102-W363F13D146A72BCED93472BF900@phx.gbl>
References: <011301c8e359$a35b8e20$0702a8c0@LITNOW>
	<COL102-W363F13D146A72BCED93472BF900@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <006b01c8e390$3a0793b0$ae16bb10$@net>

Well, the point of the report is to make a case for MORE financial
commitment by government and others.

Forrest Chisman 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Mary Lynn Simons
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 12:02 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1357] Re: Reach Higher America on Workplace Literacy
List


Isn't this report just meaningless since there is little financial
commitment to education by the government.
________________________________
> From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
> To: assessment at nifl.gov
> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:25:50 -0400
> Subject: [Assessment 1356] Reach Higher America on Workplace Literacy List
> 
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> 
> 
> I just wanted to add this follow-up note to Forrest's recent post
regarding misconceptions with Reach Higher America.  There has been some
discussion on this topic on a couple of the National Institute for
Literacy's Discussions Lists - particularly the Workplace Literacy List.  To
read the thread of that discussion, go to the Workplace archives at
http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/workplace/2008/date.html  and click on the
posts that have Reach Higher America in the subject line.  Feel free to
subscribe so you can join in that discussion as well (subscribe at
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/Workplace/).
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious to hear from subscribers what you think about this report.
What sort of implications might it have in terms of assessment of students
and accountability of programs - if you see any?  If the recommendations of
the report are put into effect, what types of tools, structures or processes
would we need to better conduct assessment of students and accountability of
programs?  Or perhaps we already have the tools we need?  Or perhaps this
movement will not affect the assessment/testing/accountability angle at all?
> 
> 
> 
> What are your thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> Marie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marie Cora
> 
> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
> 
> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
> 
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

_________________________________________________________________
Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL
_Refresh_messenger_video_072008
-------------------------------
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Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to forrest at crosslink.net


From jschneider at eicc.edu  Sat Jul 12 09:57:48 2008
From: jschneider at eicc.edu (Schneider, Jim)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 08:57:48 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1359] Response to Marie Cora's inquiry about Reach
	Higher America report
References: <011301c8e359$a35b8e20$0702a8c0@LITNOW>
	<COL102-W363F13D146A72BCED93472BF900@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB8708AA208E@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>

<Marie Cora writes: I?m curious to hear from subscribers what you think about this report.  What sort of implications might it have in terms of assessment of students and accountability of programs ? if you see any?  If the recommendations of the report are put into effect, what types of tools, structures or processes would we need to better conduct assessment of students and accountability of programs?  Or perhaps we already have the tools we need?  Or perhaps this movement will not affect the assessment/testing/accountability angle at all?>

As the director of a community college based adult literacy program I have long been an fan of Forest's work. My first response to the executive summary was not positive - I thought it was throwing out the baby with the bathwater - simply tossing aside the infrastructure and programs that were in place for a completely "new" system. 

Careful reading of the entire report overcame my initial impressions - the existing system can fit into the new approach and be greatly enhanced by it. 

In regard to student assessment and accountability - I don't see this as an area that needs to be overhauled - although it could certainly stand some improvement. 

My beef with the NRS is that the deck is stacked against the programs. Just completing last year's report I continue to be frustrated by the application of K-12/NCLB approaches to assessment and accountability on an adult system that shares very little in common with K-12. 

To attempt to survey our students on any of the follow-up measures - go to college, get a job, keep a job is a fruitless endeavor. They move and change phone numbers to quickly and frequently to have any hope of a meaningful sample. 

In Iowa we data match, which sounds like a sensible approach. However this too is significantly stacked against the programs. Students with the employment goals much provide a social security number AND be employed in Iowa for the data match to occur. With identity-theft concerns fewer and fewer of our students are willing to share their social security number with us, and being located on the border - many are employed in Illinois. 

Even the data-match for going to college falls short of providing a comprehensive and fair assessment. The match is conducted in the fall after the program year for those students who are enrolled in "our" college. As a result, any student who might have completed their GED and a short-term training program prior to or after the date of the fall data match are not counted. Furthermore, student who attend a regent university or one of the many private colleges in Iowa are not counted. 

Finally, the assessment of learning gains with like tests is an admirable goal. However, given the transitory nature of adult learners and their irregular attendance patterns a more flexible approach would be more reasonable. I understand the psychometrics of using like-tests for pre & post-testing, however such standards are incredibly onerous given the limited time that many adult learners have.  The approval of official GED practice tests and the Official GED as pre & post-test measures cannot not happen soon enough in my book. 

Sorry for the rambling - bottom line - I would love to see our nation make such programming a priority. However, given the history of such efforts in the past and the current economic, political, international mess that our nation is in - I am not terribly optimistic that significant changes will occur. 

Jim Schneider


-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Mary Lynn Simons
Sent: Fri 7/11/2008 11:01 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1357] Re: Reach Higher America on Workplace Literacy List
 

Isn't this report just meaningless since there is little financial commitment to education by the government.
________________________________
> From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
> To: assessment at nifl.gov
> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:25:50 -0400
> Subject: [Assessment 1356] Reach Higher America on Workplace Literacy List
> 
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> 
> 
> I just wanted to add this follow-up note to Forrest's recent post regarding misconceptions with Reach Higher America.  There has been some discussion on this topic on a couple of the National Institute for Literacy's Discussions Lists - particularly the Workplace Literacy List.  To read the thread of that discussion, go to the Workplace archives at http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/workplace/2008/date.html  and click on the posts that have Reach Higher America in the subject line.  Feel free to subscribe so you can join in that discussion as well (subscribe at http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/Workplace/).
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious to hear from subscribers what you think about this report.  What sort of implications might it have in terms of assessment of students and accountability of programs - if you see any?  If the recommendations of the report are put into effect, what types of tools, structures or processes would we need to better conduct assessment of students and accountability of programs?  Or perhaps we already have the tools we need?  Or perhaps this movement will not affect the assessment/testing/accountability angle at all?
> 
> 
> 
> What are your thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> Marie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marie Cora
> 
> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
> 
> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
> 
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

_________________________________________________________________
Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_072008
-------------------------------
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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to jschneider at eicc.edu

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From adrienne.davis at hclibrary.org  Sun Jul 13 11:36:55 2008
From: adrienne.davis at hclibrary.org (Adrienne Davis)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 11:36:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Assessment 1360] Re: Misconceptions about the "Reach Higher
 America" report
In-Reply-To: <000001c8e2cd$8119bda0$834d38e0$@net>
Message-ID: <27945157.1218.1215963415454.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>

"
Thanks for your thoughts.  I hope your reading of this report reflects the opinions of the report writers because I would hate to see improving English literacy lost as a goal in and of itself, especially for the so-called "low performing" students.  In our program, we have many of these types of people and many of them are not in the workforce (because they are retired or are at home taking care of children or elderly parents) or are in the workforce but advancement or career change is not a high priority for them.  What they want is to be able to read the newspaper, understand what is being discussed on tv (especially this year with a presidential election coming up in November), be able to communicate with their doctors, children's teachers, their neighbors, and read to their children.  While I see the benefit of incorporating workforce readiness into ESL/AE programs, I, like so many others, do not want this to become the sole or even the predominant mission. And I worry that workforce readiness could become the mantra for "improving" our programs simply because it is easier to justify spending money on programs tied to economic development rather than personal enrichment.

Adrienne Davis
Intake Assessment Specialist
Project Literacy, Howard County Library
410-313-7900

Building Life Skills Through Literacy. Educate. Enhance. Empower.


----- Original Message -----
From: Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net>
To:<workplace at nifl.gov> ,   <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org> ,   <professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov> ,   <assessment at nifl.gov> ,   <englishlangauge at nifl.gov> ,   <familyliteracy at nifl.gov> ,   <technology at nifl.gov> , 'and' <libraryl-lit at ala.org>
Cc:
Date: Friday, July 11 2008 09:01 AM
Subject: [Assessment 1355] Misconceptions about the "Reach Higher America" report
Dear Colleagues,



There has been quite a bit of discussion on various Adult Education -related listservs about the recent report of the National Commission on Adult Literacy, ?Reach Higher America.? I, for one, am delighted that the report has aroused so much interest, and a robust discussion of its findings can only benefit the field, as well as anyone who may wish to act on those findings.



In some of the postings, however, I have found what I believe are a number of misconceptions about what the report says and its implications that I fear may needlessly distract the discussion. I would like to do what I can to sort those out. 



In doing so, I want to make clear that, although I have been affiliated with the Council for the Advancement of Adult Literacy,  I had very little to do with the National Commission on Adult Literacy or its report. This was partly because I had prior commitments to do a lot of ESL research that overlapped the Commission?s term, and partly because I didn?t think Gail Spangenberg, Cheryl King, and the Commissioners needed any help from me. (Too many cooks, etc.)  My only input was to testify to the Commission on ESL, meet with a group of commissioners and staff to discuss (inconclusively) a few key issues for half a day, and provide advice on drafting issues (some of which was followed and some of which wasn?t).  As a result, in most respects I read ?Reach Higher America? in the same way that you do ? as an informed outsider. Certainly, I can?t speak for the Commission about it or for CAAL as the Commission?s agent, nor do I wish to do so.



With that long preface, I would like to address three issues that I believe are needlessly clouding consideration of the report by members of the Adult Education field and other concerned parties.



1)The notion that the Commission is advocating converting adult education into a system that would SOLELY or primarily  have the goal of workforce preparation/postsecondary transition. If this were true, I would be concerned too. But if you read the report carefully, I think you will see that this is simply NOT what it says



It is true that the report talks mainly about workforce preparation and expanding AE to place more emphasis on this goal. But there is no place in which it says that existing efforts in ABE, ASE, and ESL should be diminished, or that workforce preparation should be the EXCLUSIVE goal of the system. In fact, on page 22, it says the opposite. And it  singles out family literacy, reducing waiting lists for ESL programs, increasing GED completions, and other issues that are not strictly workforce-related as priorities, and it emphasizes the importance of increased investment per student, more supportive services, and greater investment in staff training THROUGHT THE SYSTEM. 



Personally, I think the best way to read the Commission?s emphasis on workforce readiness is to say that increasing, enriching, and expanding the AE system?s role in workforce readiness is the goal that should have highest priority right now ? but not the exclusive goal. (Policy should be able to chew gum and walk at the same time.) Why should workforce readiness have particularly high priority? Well, because it is the function that the AE system performs least well. The system has never been asked to do this, and so it?s no surprise (or cause for apology) that it doesn?t do much of it. We all know this. A large number of students come to AE programs with the goal of getting better jobs, but most of the programs specifically designed to help them in this regard are small and fragile. Likewise, the Commission says it considers transition to postsecondary education to be a form of workforce readiness. Again, although some programs make notable efforts to facilitate this, they do so largely in spite of existing policy and systems of funding. Only a tiny percentage of AE students make transitions. 



In short, we simply  have to build up the workforce readiness aspect of the system. Why? Because, as the Commission so eloquently points out, there are enormous benefits for adult learners and for the nation?s economy if we do, and enormous penalties for low-income, low skilled people, as well as economy, if we don?t. And only the AE system can take on this challenge. If it doesn?t, some other system will have to be devised to do so. That would be a terrible waste, because the existing services provided by AE are part of the pathway to workforce readiness. All we need to do is grow some additional branches on the tree ? something that many programs are trying to do, but for which they are not receiving much support.



Anyway, that?s how I read it, and I would invite you to see if it makes more sense if YOU read it that way. 



In addition, there is another consideration. I personally believe that there is precious little political support for any major expansion of AE services or funding UNLESS the system can be tied to high priority national economic goals. That doesn?t mean that these must be the system?s only goals. But we?ve all beat our heads against a brick wall for decades trying to sell AE in traditional terms, and we have too little to show for it. In contrast, emphasizing the need to expand the workforce related aspects of the system appears (thus far) to have enlisted allies in business, labor, and other sectors of education we never had before. 



I doubt that the Commission was primarily motivated by this political calculus. But it is important to remember that the Commissioners were a highly diverse group of ?outsiders.? Few had an expert understanding of AE, and (contrary to what has been said) most did not represent the business community in any way. (It is true that Dollar General Corporation was the largest single financial supporter of the effort, but they in no way dictated its findings.) It is, therefore, telling that this group of ?outsiders? (with a little help from Commissioners Bob Bickerton, Sherrie Claiborne, John Comings, and Sharon Darling) gravitated to an emphasis on workforce preparation as the best way to expand AE. In fact, my own research on recent major expansions of AE at the state level indicates that it has invariably come about as a result of the desire of states to improve the economic competitiveness (workforce readiness)of their workforces. And in all cases I know of, this has NOT been a zero-sum game. A rising tide has lifted all boats in the AE system.



2) The notion that strengthening the workforce readiness aspect of AE will in some way result in less emphasis on service to the lowest skilled adults. I do not see how this can possibly be true. It is precisely the lowest skilled adults who are most in need of workforce readiness services ? they are the population must likely to be locked into low-wage, low-skilled jobs. No plan to increase the workforce preparation of adults can make a dent in the problem without giving priority to their needs. It is certainly true that many programs that have added special components to increase employability by increasing transitions to postsecondary education and specialized vocational programs usually recruit students at the intermediate levels of ABE and ESL or GED graduates for those components. But that only reinforces the imperative for workforce readiness efforts to emphasize greater service to those with lower levels of skills. In the ESL field, for example, the overwhelming majority of students are at the lowest skill levels. There is no way that a stronger emphasis on workforce readiness can succeed unless we greatly enhance our efforts to help those students advance up the AE continuum. Otherwise, there simply will not be enough students to take advantage of specialized workforce components. Moreover, it is by no means clear that these kinds of specialized components are the only way to improve workforce readiness. Career counseling, teaching ?soft skills? (such as the SCANS array), and infusing more work skills (as opposed to life skills) into the curriculum can help broaden the options of students at all levels.                     



In short, I do not see any way in which strengthening the workforce readiness aspects of AE programs is inconsistent with serving the least skilled adult learners, and I can find no place in ?Reach Higher America? where the Commission even suggests this. The traditional goal of adult education has been to help as many students as possible ascend as far as possible up the adult learning continuum. A stronger emphasis on workforce readiness simply means offering students the opportunity to improve their employability as they ascend that continuum. Some students may not wish to take advantage of this opportunity. They will benefit from AE in other ways. AE has always tried to serve many different learner goals, and as mentioned above, ?Reach Higher America? clearly considers all of them valid. In this context, the contribution of the report is to emphasize the need to strengthen service to students who have the goal of improving their employment prospects ? whatever their initial level of skills, and without prejudice to other goals.        



3)The notion that the Commission is advocating a change in the governance of AE at the state or federal levels. This is simply not true. I have read this report so many times I?m almost blind. There is NO PLACE in the report where a change of governance is advocated. In fact, there is no place in which governance is even discussed. It is not even mentioned in the discussion of state planning (pp. 26-27). As far as he report is concerned, states would be free to adopt any governance system for AE they want ? as they are now. The report simply encourages them to engage in more meaningful inter-agency planning for the role AE in their states than they do now ? a requirement in present legislation that largely honored in the breach ? as a way of acknowledging that states have different needs and can legitimately realize them in different ways. In this sense, the report reposes more responsibility at the state level than the present system does. Likewise, the issue of the governance of AE at the federal level is NOT DISCUSSED AT ALL in the report. The Commission DOES appear to believe that it would be advisable to get as many of the separate federal authorities and funding streams as possible under a single legislative framework. But it is moot about whether the existing system of divided administrative responsibility at the federal level should be continued. Personally, I think it?s too much trouble to get into the turf wars of changing it, but that?s just my view. 



I hope, that this overly long note will help to take some non-issues off the table, and help you in your consideration of the report. There are a great many very real and very tough issues that need sorting out before the Commission?s recommendations can become a reality. So I don?t think we should waste time debating problems that don?t exist. The Commission will certainly try to have its recommendations embodied in legislation, and it will need the help of all of you, not only to do that but to do it right. So I hope we can set aside these differences, or at least raise areas of concern or uncertainty with Gail or others who understand the Commission?s intent better than I do, before rushing to conclusions. To encourage readership and reach people outside the AE field, the report is very brief. Unfortunately that means that some of its points may seem a bit cryptic to those who read it with expert eyes. I hope that, when in doubt, you will ask for clarification, rather than assume the worst. I know enough of the Commissioners and staff to know that these people desperately want to help the AE field in all of its aspects, and most of all the learners.



Forrest Chisman                           




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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Mon Jul 14 11:39:11 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 11:39:11 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1359] Opportunity to showcase how you communicate
	success
Message-ID: <03c201c8e5c7$c4056680$0702a8c0@LITNOW>

ProLiteracy Seeks Model Programs for Performance Accountability
Initiative
Deadline for Application - July 31, 2008
With funding from the Dollar General Literacy Foundation, ProLiteracy is
leading a three-year national project known as the Dollar
General/ProLiteracy Performance Accountability Initiative. 
 
This project identifies promising practices for collecting, analyzing,
and using student and program assessment data to demonstrate and
communicate program effectiveness. 
 
This year's (2008-2009) theme is Communicating Success to Stakeholders.
 
As in the previous years, ProLiteracy will choose up to eight model
programs that demonstrate promising accountability practices related to
communicating success. 
 
Those selected as model programs will receive:
 
*        a $1,500 stipend
 
*        increased national visibility
 
*        an opportunity to extend their positive impact to the literacy
and adult education field across the U.S.
The deadline for accepting nominations via e-mail is July 31, 2008
Please visit http://www.proliteracy.org/external/dg_pai.asp
<http://207.10.202.200/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.proliteracy.
org/external/dg_pai.asp>  to read the guidelines and to complete a
nomination form. 
Please forward this information to other programs that have increased
their program resources and effectiveness by communicating their success
to stakeholders.
Should you have any questions, please contact Marie Cora, Project
Manager, via e-mail at mcora at proliteracy.org.  
  
 
Marie Cora
 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
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From tsticht at znet.com  Mon Jul 14 14:12:53 2008
From: tsticht at znet.com (tsticht at znet.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 11:12:53 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1360]  Assessment Issues in Reach Higher, America report
Message-ID: <1216059173.487b97250f14a@webmail.znet.net>

Marie and others: The following note raises an important set of issues about
adult skills assessment raised in the Reach Higher, America report. The
report is premised on the notion of a skills crisis in the American
workforce. But as the note indicates, there are some important questions
about just how one goes about assessing the skills of the American
workforce and how one assesses the skills demands of jobs. Assessment in
these areas is important at the level of policy formation for funding for
adult education and literacy skills development as well as for counseling
of students regarding their education and training needs for employment.
Tom Sticht

July 9, 2008

The Great Crisis in Workforce Skills Debate

Tom Sticht

In June 2008 a National Commission on Adult Literacy presented the final
report of a two year study of  the skills of the American workforce and the
demands for skills in the workplace. Entitled "Reach Higher, America:
Overcoming Crisis in the U.S. Workforce", the report states "Almost a
decade into the 21st  Century, America faces a choice: We can invest in the
basic education and skills of our workforce and remain competitive in
today?s global economy, or we can continue to overlook glaring evidence of
a national crisis and move further down the path to decline." (p. v)

Continuing its claims of a crisis in the U. S. workforce due to low skills,
the Commissions report goes on to state: "Americans should have been
stunned when the National Assessment of Adult Literacy (NAAL), released in
2005, revealed that a staggering 30 million American adults scored at
"below basic "?meaning they could perform no more than the most rudimentary
literacy tasks. Another 63 million adults could perform only simple, basic
everyday literacy activities.1 The NAAL findings are ominous because most
good jobs require at least some education beyond high school. The NAAL
found that of the approximately 222 million adults aged 16 or older living
in households or prisons in the United States, some 93 million lack
literacy at a level needed to enroll in the postsecondary education or job
training that current and future jobs require. This alarming number should
have produced a national outcry. But?at a time when our economy and welfare
are more dependent on knowledge and skills than ever before?there was barely
a whisper." (p. 2)

Why has there been "barely a whisper" in the face of this workforce skills
crisis? There are no doubt many factors involved, but one of them seems to
be that the claim of such a crisis is challenged by another stream of
reports by organizations and individuals. For instance, in a recent article
online at http://www.ednews.org,, Dennis Redovich, a job skills specialist
(www.jobseducationwis.org) surveyed a number of the claims of workforce
skills deficits and concluded Quote: "Reality is 1. For the majority of the
jobs in the world and the U. S., basic reading, writing, arithmetic, and
developing a work ethic may be required. 2. Education for education sake is
good and is helpful in getting a job and doing well. However there is a
surplus of highly educated workers for jobs that require higher levels of
education and training. 3. A majority of jobs in the United States
workforce require only short-term or moderate length on the job training or
experience. About 21% of jobs might require a bachelor's degree or more.
About 32% of workers in 2003 in the U. S. workforce 25 years and over had a
Bachelor's degree or more. 5. About 5% of jobs in the United States in the
2000s might require higher math and or science course work."

In a September 2006 article in Phi Delta Kappan, Gerald Bracey has an
article in which he notes that for years both he and Redovich "have been
screaming about what we might call the "high-skills hoax" -- the notion
that everyone must have high skills." He goes on to say, Quote: "It's not
that we don't recognize a civil rights issue in the debate -- everyone
should have the opportunity to develop the skills to land a high-paying
job. However, we understand the law of supply and demand, and we know about
what jobs are actually being created. In fact, if everyone became highly
skilled, the wages of skilled labor would fall, and the unemployment rates
for skilled workers would rise, a condition conducive to social unrest."
End quote

Both Redovich and Bracey point to research indicating that the workforce of
the near future (e.g., up to 2020) will not face a future dominated by jobs
with postsecondary or college degree requirements. Bracey states, Quote:
"Most new jobs, though, continue to be in the low-paying service sector.
When the Bureau of Labor Statistics issues its 10-year job creation
forecasts, the number of new jobs for retail sales clerks alone approaches
the number for the 10 fastest-growing jobs combined. At present, the number
of people with bachelor's degrees is just about right to fill the proportion
of jobs requiring them, and that proportion is not projected to increase
much in the near future. Producing a great many more college grads will . .
. well, here we are again, back to supply and demand. 
Parallel to the claim
that we will need more skilled workers is the claim that there is a mismatch
between jobs and the skills of workers: workers don't have the skills that
employers demand. We have argued against this, too." End quote.

In 1998 I prepared a paper for the U. S. Department of Education entitled
Beyond 2000: Future Directions for Adult Education. In that report I drew
upon work from the Hudson Institute [Judy, R. & D?Amico, C. (1997)
Workforce 2020: Work and Workers in the 21st  Century. Indianapolis, IN:
Hudson Institute] looking at the education and skills requirements of jobs
up to the year 2020. I concluded that Quote "If the new Hudson Institute
report is correct, 65-75 percent of the new jobs in the fastest growing
occupations will require language and mathematics skills at or below the
8th  grade level in school. 
 Regarding the so-called "skills gap," then,
what can be said for certain is that the last decade and a half has
witnessed a plethora of analyses to find out if such a gap exists and to
this date there has been no definitive answer (there is not even agreement
on what is meant by the word "skills," see papers for the National Academy
of Sciences edited by Lesgold, Feuer, & Black, 1997). This debate is likely
to persist into the next millennium." End quote.

Now we are nearing the end of the first decade of the new millennium and we
find that, indeed, the great debate about workforce skills and job demands
goes on. The recent report of the National Commission on Adult Literacy is
the latest in the stream of reports decrying the skills of the workforce
and portending a crisis for our global competitiveness. On the other side
of the debate are the reports by Bracey, Redovich and the analysts they
cite who argue that we are not facing a workforce skills crisis that
threatens our national economy nor our international competitiveness.

This debate may contribute to some degree to the conclusion of the Reach
Higher America report that, despite the surveys of adult literacy conducted
by the U. S. Department of Education suggesting that some 93 million adults
lack literacy at a level needed to enroll in the postsecondary education or
job training that current and future jobs require, barely a whisper has been
heard. More to the point, little by way of policy and funding for the Adult
Education and Literacy System of the United States has changed, and the
system continues to work staffed mostly by part-time and volunteer
teachers, with an obscene level of funding of barely $800 per enrollment.
This does not signal to me that a crisis exists in the skills of the
workforce.

Thomas G. Sticht
International Consultant in Adult Education
Email: tsticht at aznet.net




From MMaralit at NIFL.gov  Tue Jul 15 16:11:09 2008
From: MMaralit at NIFL.gov (Maralit, Mary Jo)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:11:09 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1361]  A note of thanks...
Message-ID: <4062487BDB6029428A763CAEF4E1FE5B1B592D2B@wdcrobe2m03.ed.gov>

Dearest all,

I wanted to let you know that my last day at the National Institute for
Literacy will be Friday, July 18.  Next week, I will be moving to a position
at the U.S. Department of Education, Office of Vocational and Adult
Education.

In the past 5 years of working at the National Institute for Literacy on the
LINCS project and with the discussion lists, I have learned a lot from the
field.  I am grateful to have had the opportunity to work with such a
wonderful, committed group adult education researchers, policymakers,
administrators, practitioners, and students. 

I hope that our paths cross in the near future.  Many thanks for your
support throughout the years.

Sincerely,
Jo Maralit




From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Tue Jul 15 17:32:50 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:32:50 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1362] Seeking Model Programs for Performance
	Accountability - accessing URL
Message-ID: <060201c8e6c2$55bd1c80$0702a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi everyone,
 
I've received emails from several folks that they are being prompted for
a password when you try to go to the URL for the nomination application
for Model Programs for the Dollar General Performance Accountability
initiative.  
This URL is now correct:  
Please visit http://www.proliteracy.org/external/dg_pai.asp to read the
guidelines and to complete a nomination form. 
Sorry for any inconvenience.
 
Marie
 
 
Marie Cora
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
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From JSoroui at air.org  Tue Jul 15 17:53:34 2008
From: JSoroui at air.org (Soroui, Jaleh)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:53:34 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1363] Re: A note of thanks...
In-Reply-To: <4062487BDB6029428A763CAEF4E1FE5B1B592D2B@wdcrobe2m03.ed.gov>
Message-ID: <83E7D8975F3E2646BD1DA4C6E37F1160505859@DC1EXCL01.air.org>

Dear Jo;
Best wishes for you in your new job.  I want to thank you for all your
hard work and especial efforts to keep LINCS running and being useful
and effective. Without you being there, I doubt there was much chance to
keep this service alive for the literacy field. 
Jaleh  

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Maralit, Mary Jo
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 4:11 PM
To: lincs at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1361] A note of thanks...

Dearest all,

I wanted to let you know that my last day at the National Institute for
Literacy will be Friday, July 18.  Next week, I will be moving to a
position
at the U.S. Department of Education, Office of Vocational and Adult
Education.

In the past 5 years of working at the National Institute for Literacy on
the
LINCS project and with the discussion lists, I have learned a lot from
the
field.  I am grateful to have had the opportunity to work with such a
wonderful, committed group adult education researchers, policymakers,
administrators, practitioners, and students. 

I hope that our paths cross in the near future.  Many thanks for your
support throughout the years.

Sincerely,
Jo Maralit



-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to jsoroui at air.org

From llahmann at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 15 21:15:07 2008
From: llahmann at yahoo.com (Liz Lahmann)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 18:15:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Assessment 1364]   English Proficiency Checklist
In-Reply-To: <060201c8e6c2$55bd1c80$0702a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <100282.50675.qm@web52305.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hello,

I am in the process of creating and implementing an English proficiency checklist for beginning/newcomer students.? I'm putting together information from state standards (MN) and other benchmarks from other sources as well as from my and my colleagues' experience with our students.? I work at a school that is designed to serve immigrant and refugee students, and we have many students who come with limited to no English and/or formal schooling.? 

The goal is to create an assessment tool that will help us to:
a) track student progress in a more organized way, breaking down individual skills and skill areas,
b) give students a visual, realistic way of looking at their own progress they have made and the skills they need to work on, 
c) motivate students to focus on skills they need to work on and give them guidance as they do this,
d) help teachers to plan and focus lessons on the skill areas most needed by our students, and 
e) determine whether a student has the skills needed to move to the next level of English class.

A colleague of mine created a technology skills checklist that worked well in determining whether a student had mastered the skills of her computer class and was ready to "pass out" of the class.? I'd like to do the same for English class, but I would like to gather as much information as possible as I do so.?? I am particularly interested in the following:

1) Have you used a proficiency checklist?
2) How did you implement it?
3) How many teachers were involved in the assessment of students based on the checklist?
4) How did you manage the logistical/procedural aspects of assessing with a checklist?
5) Do you have any information that might help me as I create the list, the accompanying "mini-assessments," and a system of managing it all?

Thank you so much!

Liz Lahmann
ELL Teacher
Lead Teacher - 101 Level
Lighthouse Academy of Nations
Minneapolis, Minnesota



      
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From KURIENS at lagcc.cuny.edu  Wed Jul 16 02:35:05 2008
From: KURIENS at lagcc.cuny.edu (Suma Kurien)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 02:35:05 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1365] Re: A note of thanks...
Message-ID: <487D5E59020000FA00025B55@mailgate.lagcc.cuny.edu>

Jo,
All the best and thanks for all your work with NIFL through these years.
Suma Kurien

>>> "Maralit, Mary Jo" <MMaralit at NIFL.gov> 07/15/08 5:26 PM >>>
Dearest all,

I wanted to let you know that my last day at the National Institute for
Literacy will be Friday, July 18.  Next week, I will be moving to a position
at the U.S. Department of Education, Office of Vocational and Adult
Education.

In the past 5 years of working at the National Institute for Literacy on the
LINCS project and with the discussion lists, I have learned a lot from the
field.  I am grateful to have had the opportunity to work with such a
wonderful, committed group adult education researchers, policymakers,
administrators, practitioners, and students. 

I hope that our paths cross in the near future.  Many thanks for your
support throughout the years.

Sincerely,
Jo Maralit



-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to kuriens at lagcc.cuny.edu


From ABeck at LVCCReads.org  Wed Jul 16 14:41:22 2008
From: ABeck at LVCCReads.org (Ann Beck)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:41:22 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1366] Re: English Proficiency Checklist
In-Reply-To: <100282.50675.qm@web52305.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001e01c8e773$8c01e990$4300a8c0@Director>

Liz,
We don't use a checklist for student progress, at the moment, but we do use
one in training our volunteer tutors so they can use it with their tutors.
Ours comes from Literacy Volunteers of America's ESLOA test. If you would
like more info, please contact me directly. 
Ann Beck
Literacy Volunteers of Coconino County
Flagstaff, AZ
abeck at lvccreads.org

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Liz Lahmann
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 6:15 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1364] English Proficiency Checklist


Hello,

I am in the process of creating and implementing an English proficiency
checklist for beginning/newcomer students.  I'm putting together information
from state standards (MN) and other benchmarks from other sources as well as
from my and my colleagues' experience with our students.  I work at a school
that is designed to serve immigrant and refugee students, and we have many
students who come with limited to no English and/or formal schooling.  

The goal is to create an assessment tool that will help us to:
a) track student progress in a more organized way, breaking down individual
skills and skill areas,
b) give students a visual, realistic way of looking at their own progress
they have made and the skills they need to work on, 
c) motivate students to focus on skills they need to work on and give them
guidance as they do this,
d) help teachers to plan and focus lessons on the skill areas most needed by
our students, and 
e) determine whether a student has the skills needed to move to the next
level of English class.

A colleague of mine created a technology skills checklist that worked well
in determining whether a student had mastered the skills of her computer
class and was ready to "pass out" of the class.  I'd like to do the same for
English class, but I would like to gather as much information as possible as
I do so.   I am particularly interested in the following:

1) Have you used a proficiency checklist?
2) How did you implement it?
3) How many teachers were involved in the assessment of students based on
the checklist?
4) How did you manage the logistical/procedural aspects of assessing with a
checklist?
5) Do you have any information that might help me as I create the list, the
accompanying "mini-assessments," and a system of managing it all?

Thank you so much!

Liz Lahmann
ELL Teacher
Lead Teacher - 101 Level
Lighthouse Academy of Nations
Minneapolis, Minnesota
	

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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Wed Jul 16 14:48:58 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:48:58 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1367] Re: A note of thanks...
In-Reply-To: <4062487BDB6029428A763CAEF4E1FE5B1B592D2B@wdcrobe2m03.ed.gov>
Message-ID: <013301c8e774$9ba7d7f0$0702a8c0@LITNOW>

Dear Jo (and hello everyone),

I've been wanting to reply with heartfelt thanks and I just read a reply
by Daphne Greenberg, moderator of the Diversity and Literacy Discussion
List, to your note on her List.  

Daphne has expressed exactly how I feel, with eloquence and grace, and I
could not possibly do a better job.  So, I am borrowing Daphne's words
and pasting them here for you, Jo, so that all the subscribers on the
Assessment List know how I and the other moderators feel:


Jo,
Yes, good luck and congratulations. More importantly, as moderator of
this list, I would like from the bottom of my heart to thank you on this
public forum for everything that you have done for this list, as well as
all of NIFL electronic lists. Subscribers who don't know you, or your
role, probably do not realize that you have been the force behind the
scenes that help make the lists possible, that you have "gone to bat"
for us whenever necessary, and that for all these years you have been a
staunch ally and advocate for the adult literacy field. THANK YOU for
being there for us.
Daphne


We will miss you greatly Jo!  The world is a better place with you in
it!

Fondest regards,

Marie



-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Maralit, Mary Jo
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 4:11 PM
To: lincs at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1361] A note of thanks...

Dearest all,

I wanted to let you know that my last day at the National Institute for
Literacy will be Friday, July 18.  Next week, I will be moving to a
position
at the U.S. Department of Education, Office of Vocational and Adult
Education.

In the past 5 years of working at the National Institute for Literacy on
the
LINCS project and with the discussion lists, I have learned a lot from
the
field.  I am grateful to have had the opportunity to work with such a
wonderful, committed group adult education researchers, policymakers,
administrators, practitioners, and students. 

I hope that our paths cross in the near future.  Many thanks for your
support throughout the years.

Sincerely,
Jo Maralit



-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com


From gspangenberg at caalusa.org  Tue Jul 22 08:43:57 2008
From: gspangenberg at caalusa.org (Gail Spangenberg)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:43:57 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1368]  New ESL Release by CAAL
Message-ID: <7B156F4A-CA55-494B-A1D9-A824C76D5C29@caalusa.org>


July 22, 2008, NYC -- The Council for Advancement of Adult Literacy  
announces the release of a new resource called Findings in ESL: A  
Quick Reference to Findings of CAAL Research on ESL Programs at  
Community Colleges. As the name indicates, the publication, written  
by CAAL vice president Forrest P. Chisman, is the final in a series  
from CAAL on its ESL research since 2004. Due to the high ongoing  
interest in ESL service provision, the purpose of Findings in ESL is  
to make CAAL's ESL work more readily accessible to general and ESL  
audiences who may not have the time to wend their way through its  
fairly dense full-length reports. This summary document is available  
in PDF format from the CAAL website (www.caalusa.org, Publications  
page, item ESL6). It may be purchased as a bound document directly  
from CAAL ($10 prepaid plus postage, bheitner at caalusa.org for  
instructions). The four main research reports summarized in this  
Reference document are also available at the CAAL website, each for  
$20 prepaid plus postage. They are: Adult ESL and the Community  
College (2004, 59 pp.); Passing the Torch: Strategies for Innovation  
in Community College ESL (2007, 153 pp.); Torchlights in ESL: Five  
Community College Profiles (2007, 123 pp.); Pathways and Outcomes:  
Tracking ESL Student Performance (2008, 212 pp.)--items ESL1 through  
ESL5.





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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Wed Jul 23 16:35:31 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:35:31 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1369] Learning and Assessing in Virtual and Real Worlds
Message-ID: <021901c8ed03$a7317420$05000100@LITNOW>

Dear Colleagues,
 
I hope this email finds you well.  This is an unusually lengthy email
from me - just so you know.
 
Since it's summer, I thought I would throw out something a tad unusual
as a discussion catalyst.  Quite a while ago I read a book called "What
Video Games Have to Teach Us About Learning and Literacy" by James Paul
Gee (NY: Palgrave Macmillan, 2003).  The author studies behavior and
learning in people who engage in video game and on-line play, and he
himself becomes immersed in all types of video and on-line gaming in
order to also experience his own learning and behavior within these
environments.  It's a remarkable book.  There are many poignant
arguments made in support of how gaming induces/encourages intense
critical thinking, stretches the limits of one's intellectual abilities,
compels people to work together, draws out individuals' skills that
contribute to the success of a group, and generally does not
discriminate in terms of expectations of learning - in other words,
video and on-line games are constructed in ways that assume that ANYONE
can engage successfully, and the necessary scaffolding for such learning
is embedded within the games themselves.  Needless to say, Gee makes
comparisons between this virtual world, and the real world of school and
education in this country.
 
Just for full disclosure, the last time I fully engaged in 'screen'
games was a while ago:  I was pretty good at Asteroids at one point in
my life.  I just never became very interested in pursuing this pastime.
I started to become fascinated again when my husband engaged our
then-4-year-old son (he's 9 now) in both video and on-line games.  I was
floored:  with almost no instruction other than observation at his dad's
elbow, 'P' was able to take over the games and carry on as if he had
always been playing them.  Really complex games.  Very soon, he was
instructing dad in various games, and pretty much could beat the pants
off him in video baseball.
 
At any rate, toward the end of the book, Gee recounts an experience in
which he had moved from a "weak link" (one with far less knowledge) in a
network of on-line players with whom he was engaging, to one who held a
piece of crucial knowledge that he was able to share with his network in
order for the group to reach success.  He notes:  "If you were to assess
just my skills playing video games alone in my own home, you would
underestimate me.  You need to assess me as a node in a network and see
how I function as such a node" (p. 189).  
 
With this rather lengthy introduction, the following section of the book
is really what I would like to hear your thoughts on.  Gee writes:
 
"If we want to know how good students are in science - or how good
employees are in a modern knowledge-centered workplace - we should ask
all of the following (and not just the first):  What is in their heads?
How well can they leverage knowledge in other people and in various
tools and technologies (including their environment)?  How are they
positioned within a network that connects them in rich ways to other
people and various tools and technologies?  Schools tend to care only
about what is inside students' heads as their heads and bodies are
isolated from others, from tools and technologies, and from rich
environments that help make them powerful modes in networks.  [Skilled
video game players] wouldn't play a game in these circumstances...  Good
workplaces in our science- and technology-driven "new capitalism" don't
play this game.  Schools that do are, in my view, DOA in our current
world - and kids who play video games know it" (p. 189).
 
Gee then goes on to discuss the work of Jean Lave, a leading theorist of
socially situated cognition.  Lave argues that "learning is not best
judged by a change in minds (the traditional school measure), but by
'changing participation in changing practices'.and that."learning is a
change not just in practice, but in identity" (p. 190).
 
Now here is where I'm tempted to write you a bunch of assessment-related
questions to get you to respond within the context of this Discussion
List.  But after some thought, I think that the quotes taken from the
book from both Gee and Lave better posit the notions related to
assessment and assessing than I can - what they say is what I want to
hear you respond to.  
 
Ok, I will pose just this question:  if you agree with the arguments
posed by Gee and Lave, do you do anything in your classroom or program
to facilitate this type of assessment of learning?  If so, describe this
for us.
 
Thanks for indulging me.
 
Marie Cora
 
 
 
 
 
 
Marie Cora
 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
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From koconnor at framingham.k12.ma.us  Thu Jul 24 09:29:07 2008
From: koconnor at framingham.k12.ma.us (Kevin O'Connor)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:29:07 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1370] Re: Learning and Assessing in Virtual and Real
	Worlds
In-Reply-To: <021901c8ed03$a7317420$05000100@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <F57F6C89CAA27949BBB086B5D16CB805D9BB76@mccmail.fpsnet.org>

Hi Marie,
 
Great topic!  I had a World of Warcraft compulsion last year, (along with 10,000,000 other users) and learned a lot from my time online in this MMORPG (massively multiplayer online role playing game). For one thing, I had to learn a lot of online lingo.  Here's a very short glossary: 
*	"leet" or 'l33t"- the online language used; a dialect of English that substitutes numbers for letters and leans heavily on texting and game-based slang
*	"noob"- a "newbie"; someone new to the game
*	"pwned"- or "owned"; to be defeated
*	LTP- "learn to play"; an insult to someone's online skills
 
The other players in Wow range in age from preteen to middle age, and it is quite a community.  It was interesting to be in the apprentice role to younger players, especially for an educator who is used to being the teacher, not the noob.  I found myself getting pwned by 12 year-old kids who have figured out how to tweak the statistics of weapons, character type, skill attributes, mode of attack and several other factors that always made my head spin.  I grew up playing Asteroids too, and all I had to do was repeatedly mash the same button!  These kids put hours into their online character (their "avatar") poring over stats, trying the same missions repeatedly ("grinding") and memorizing fussy names of coveted items ("poltroons of the lesser fire elementals").  It always struck me that if their teacher asked them to put this kind of time and work into school they would moan and roll their eyes, but if it is for the sake of leveling up, well, then...
 
But the other dynamic at play is the multi-player aspect; there are many missions that cannot be done alone, and players belong to Guilds and must build short-term "groups" in order to get through these levels.  If someone doesn't work well in a group, word travels fast and that person will have a hard time getting into a group with experienced players.  You can't steal all the loot, not follow the plan and keep yelling "LTP N00B" in the online chat and expect to be invited back.  There is a "worldwide" chat board, and if someone is a bad group member it will get broadcast.  
 
With this long background, let me respond directly to Marie's question: If you look at the players whose character (or characters) have hit level 70, they are the ones with the best knowledge of game dynamics and a good social network support that they have built up by sharing and cooperation. However, if a student tells a teacher that he or she has three level 70 characters and is part of a solid Guild, the teacher will not recognize the time, energy and skill invested and instead tell him or her to stop wasting time online, thereby dismissing everything learned and accomplished; then the student dismisses the teacher as being irrelevant.  Don't just dismiss video games; they are important to students, so they should be treated with interest, just as we would do with other childhood pursuits in which children have invested themselves.
 
There is a dark side; many point to these kids having virtual friendships while living in isolation in the real world, and when my daughter grows up I'm going to have to set some pretty strict rules around how much time can be spent in the virtual world, but I would argue that through MMORPGs kids learn a lot about how to work in a group, negotiate power sharing, and how and when to take leadership.
 
Kevin O'Connor
Assessment Specialist
Framingham Adult ESL PLUS
508-626-4282
 
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 4:36 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1369] Learning and Assessing in Virtual and Real Worlds
 
Dear Colleagues,
 
I hope this email finds you well.  This is an unusually lengthy email from me - just so you know.
 
Since it's summer, I thought I would throw out something a tad unusual as a discussion catalyst.  Quite a while ago I read a book called "What Video Games Have to Teach Us About Learning and Literacy" by James Paul Gee (NY: Palgrave Macmillan, 2003).  The author studies behavior and learning in people who engage in video game and on-line play, and he himself becomes immersed in all types of video and on-line gaming in order to also experience his own learning and behavior within these environments.  It's a remarkable book.  There are many poignant arguments made in support of how gaming induces/encourages intense critical thinking, stretches the limits of one's intellectual abilities, compels people to work together, draws out individuals' skills that contribute to the success of a group, and generally does not discriminate in terms of expectations of learning - in other words, video and on-line games are constructed in ways that assume that ANYONE can engage successfully, and the necessary scaffolding for such learning is embedded within the games themselves.  Needless to say, Gee makes comparisons between this virtual world, and the real world of school and education in this country.
 
Just for full disclosure, the last time I fully engaged in 'screen' games was a while ago:  I was pretty good at Asteroids at one point in my life.  I just never became very interested in pursuing this pastime.  I started to become fascinated again when my husband engaged our then-4-year-old son (he's 9 now) in both video and on-line games.  I was floored:  with almost no instruction other than observation at his dad's elbow, 'P' was able to take over the games and carry on as if he had always been playing them.  Really complex games.  Very soon, he was instructing dad in various games, and pretty much could beat the pants off him in video baseball.
 
At any rate, toward the end of the book, Gee recounts an experience in which he had moved from a "weak link" (one with far less knowledge) in a network of on-line players with whom he was engaging, to one who held a piece of crucial knowledge that he was able to share with his network in order for the group to reach success.  He notes:  "If you were to assess just my skills playing video games alone in my own home, you would underestimate me.  You need to assess me as a node in a network and see how I function as such a node" (p. 189).  
 
With this rather lengthy introduction, the following section of the book is really what I would like to hear your thoughts on.  Gee writes:
 
"If we want to know how good students are in science - or how good employees are in a modern knowledge-centered workplace - we should ask all of the following (and not just the first):  What is in their heads?  How well can they leverage knowledge in other people and in various tools and technologies (including their environment)?  How are they positioned within a network that connects them in rich ways to other people and various tools and technologies?  Schools tend to care only about what is inside students' heads as their heads and bodies are isolated from others, from tools and technologies, and from rich environments that help make them powerful modes in networks.  [Skilled video game players] wouldn't play a game in these circumstances.....  Good workplaces in our science- and technology-driven "new capitalism" don't play this game.  Schools that do are, in my view, DOA in our current world - and kids who play video games know it" (p. 189).
 
Gee then goes on to discuss the work of Jean Lave, a leading theorist of socially situated cognition.  Lave argues that "learning is not best judged by a change in minds (the traditional school measure), but by 'changing participation in changing practices'...and that..."learning is a change not just in practice, but in identity" (p. 190).
 
Now here is where I'm tempted to write you a bunch of assessment-related questions to get you to respond within the context of this Discussion List.  But after some thought, I think that the quotes taken from the book from both Gee and Lave better posit the notions related to assessment and assessing than I can - what they say is what I want to hear you respond to.  
 
Ok, I will pose just this question:  if you agree with the arguments posed by Gee and Lave, do you do anything in your classroom or program to facilitate this type of assessment of learning?  If so, describe this for us.
 
Thanks for indulging me.
 
Marie Cora
 
 
 
 
 
 
Marie Cora
 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
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From JSoroui at air.org  Thu Jul 24 11:02:14 2008
From: JSoroui at air.org (Soroui, Jaleh)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:02:14 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1371] A new publication_Assessing nation's health
	literacy
In-Reply-To: <7B156F4A-CA55-494B-A1D9-A824C76D5C29@caalusa.org>
Message-ID: <83E7D8975F3E2646BD1DA4C6E37F11605058D3@DC1EXCL01.air.org>

Assessing the nation's health literacy: Key concepts and findings of the
National Assessment of Adult Literacy (NAAL) describes health literacy
results from the landmark 2003 NAAL, the nation's most comprehensive
measure of adult literacy in more than a decade.

 

Published by the American Medical Association (AMA) Foundation and
written by Sheida White, PhD, NAAL Project Officer, this 100-page report
will be of interest to clinicians, researchers, educators, insurers, and
policy makers in both the health and education fields.  

 

Assessing the nation's health literacy can be downloaded as a PDF at no
charge by visiting www.amafoundation.org/go/healthliteracy.  Hard copies
can be purchased for $20 through the AMA Bookstore by visiting
www.amabookstore.com <http://www.amabookstore.com/>  or calling (800)
621-8335 and asking for Item #OP423908. 

 

Jaleh Behroozi Soroui 

 

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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Thu Jul 24 12:57:15 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:57:15 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1372] Re: Learning and Assessing in Virtual and Real
	Worlds
In-Reply-To: <F57F6C89CAA27949BBB086B5D16CB805D9BB76@mccmail.fpsnet.org>
Message-ID: <017101c8edae$540204d0$05000100@LITNOW>

HI Kevin, nice to hear from you!  Thanks so much for your post. 
 
You mention the notion of teachers and others considering that gaming is
a 'waste of time' - Gee opens his book with this very thing:  he tells
of a small boy engaging in a video game called Pikmin whose grandfather
does consider to be a waste of the child's time.  But I kept thinking
that observing the child play the game, listening to his commentary, and
asking him questions would be a brilliant (and straight-forward) type of
needs assessment for the child - where he was excelling, what his
confusion or difficulties were, and finding out what he thinks about his
performance.  This is a fundamental in ABE isn't it?  Starting with
where the adult student is?  No matter the subject matter?  
 
What do subscribers think?  Do we do this type of 'needs assessment'
enough?  Or at all?  How often do we assess skills and abilities by
asking students to bring in what they interact with regularly in the
real world, rather than supplying them with something that might be
entirely unknown to them?
 
Marie
 
Marie Cora
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Kevin O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 9:29 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1370] Re: Learning and Assessing in Virtual and
RealWorlds
 
Hi Marie,
 
Great topic!  I had a World of Warcraft compulsion last year, (along
with 10,000,000 other users) and learned a lot from my time online in
this MMORPG (massively multiplayer online role playing game). For one
thing, I had to learn a lot of online lingo.  Here's a very short
glossary: 
*         "leet" or 'l33t"- the online language used; a dialect of
English that substitutes numbers for letters and leans heavily on
texting and game-based slang
*         "noob"- a "newbie"; someone new to the game
*         "pwned"- or "owned"; to be defeated
*         LTP- "learn to play"; an insult to someone's online skills
 
The other players in Wow range in age from preteen to middle age, and it
is quite a community.  It was interesting to be in the apprentice role
to younger players, especially for an educator who is used to being the
teacher, not the noob.  I found myself getting pwned by 12 year-old kids
who have figured out how to tweak the statistics of weapons, character
type, skill attributes, mode of attack and several other factors that
always made my head spin.  I grew up playing Asteroids too, and all I
had to do was repeatedly mash the same button!  These kids put hours
into their online character (their "avatar") poring over stats, trying
the same missions repeatedly ("grinding") and memorizing fussy names of
coveted items ("poltroons of the lesser fire elementals").  It always
struck me that if their teacher asked them to put this kind of time and
work into school they would moan and roll their eyes, but if it is for
the sake of leveling up, well, then.
 
But the other dynamic at play is the multi-player aspect; there are many
missions that cannot be done alone, and players belong to Guilds and
must build short-term "groups" in order to get through these levels.  If
someone doesn't work well in a group, word travels fast and that person
will have a hard time getting into a group with experienced players.
You can't steal all the loot, not follow the plan and keep yelling "LTP
N00B" in the online chat and expect to be invited back.  There is a
"worldwide" chat board, and if someone is a bad group member it will get
broadcast.  
 
With this long background, let me respond directly to Marie's question:
If you look at the players whose character (or characters) have hit
level 70, they are the ones with the best knowledge of game dynamics and
a good social network support that they have built up by sharing and
cooperation. However, if a student tells a teacher that he or she has
three level 70 characters and is part of a solid Guild, the teacher will
not recognize the time, energy and skill invested and instead tell him
or her to stop wasting time online, thereby dismissing everything
learned and accomplished; then the student dismisses the teacher as
being irrelevant.  Don't just dismiss video games; they are important to
students, so they should be treated with interest, just as we would do
with other childhood pursuits in which children have invested
themselves.
 
There is a dark side; many point to these kids having virtual
friendships while living in isolation in the real world, and when my
daughter grows up I'm going to have to set some pretty strict rules
around how much time can be spent in the virtual world, but I would
argue that through MMORPGs kids learn a lot about how to work in a
group, negotiate power sharing, and how and when to take leadership.
 
Kevin O'Connor
Assessment Specialist
Framingham Adult ESL PLUS
508-626-4282
 
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On
Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 4:36 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1369] Learning and Assessing in Virtual and Real
Worlds
 
Dear Colleagues,
 
I hope this email finds you well.  This is an unusually lengthy email
from me - just so you know.
 
Since it's summer, I thought I would throw out something a tad unusual
as a discussion catalyst.  Quite a while ago I read a book called "What
Video Games Have to Teach Us About Learning and Literacy" by James Paul
Gee (NY: Palgrave Macmillan, 2003).  The author studies behavior and
learning in people who engage in video game and on-line play, and he
himself becomes immersed in all types of video and on-line gaming in
order to also experience his own learning and behavior within these
environments.  It's a remarkable book.  There are many poignant
arguments made in support of how gaming induces/encourages intense
critical thinking, stretches the limits of one's intellectual abilities,
compels people to work together, draws out individuals' skills that
contribute to the success of a group, and generally does not
discriminate in terms of expectations of learning - in other words,
video and on-line games are constructed in ways that assume that ANYONE
can engage successfully, and the necessary scaffolding for such learning
is embedded within the games themselves.  Needless to say, Gee makes
comparisons between this virtual world, and the real world of school and
education in this country.
 
Just for full disclosure, the last time I fully engaged in 'screen'
games was a while ago:  I was pretty good at Asteroids at one point in
my life.  I just never became very interested in pursuing this pastime.
I started to become fascinated again when my husband engaged our
then-4-year-old son (he's 9 now) in both video and on-line games.  I was
floored:  with almost no instruction other than observation at his dad's
elbow, 'P' was able to take over the games and carry on as if he had
always been playing them.  Really complex games.  Very soon, he was
instructing dad in various games, and pretty much could beat the pants
off him in video baseball.
 
At any rate, toward the end of the book, Gee recounts an experience in
which he had moved from a "weak link" (one with far less knowledge) in a
network of on-line players with whom he was engaging, to one who held a
piece of crucial knowledge that he was able to share with his network in
order for the group to reach success.  He notes:  "If you were to assess
just my skills playing video games alone in my own home, you would
underestimate me.  You need to assess me as a node in a network and see
how I function as such a node" (p. 189).  
 
With this rather lengthy introduction, the following section of the book
is really what I would like to hear your thoughts on.  Gee writes:
 
"If we want to know how good students are in science - or how good
employees are in a modern knowledge-centered workplace - we should ask
all of the following (and not just the first):  What is in their heads?
How well can they leverage knowledge in other people and in various
tools and technologies (including their environment)?  How are they
positioned within a network that connects them in rich ways to other
people and various tools and technologies?  Schools tend to care only
about what is inside students' heads as their heads and bodies are
isolated from others, from tools and technologies, and from rich
environments that help make them powerful modes in networks.  [Skilled
video game players] wouldn't play a game in these circumstances...  Good
workplaces in our science- and technology-driven "new capitalism" don't
play this game.  Schools that do are, in my view, DOA in our current
world - and kids who play video games know it" (p. 189).
 
Gee then goes on to discuss the work of Jean Lave, a leading theorist of
socially situated cognition.  Lave argues that "learning is not best
judged by a change in minds (the traditional school measure), but by
'changing participation in changing practices'.and that."learning is a
change not just in practice, but in identity" (p. 190).
 
Now here is where I'm tempted to write you a bunch of assessment-related
questions to get you to respond within the context of this Discussion
List.  But after some thought, I think that the quotes taken from the
book from both Gee and Lave better posit the notions related to
assessment and assessing than I can - what they say is what I want to
hear you respond to.  
 
Ok, I will pose just this question:  if you agree with the arguments
posed by Gee and Lave, do you do anything in your classroom or program
to facilitate this type of assessment of learning?  If so, describe this
for us.
 
Thanks for indulging me.
 
Marie Cora
 
 
 
 
 
 
Marie Cora
 <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
 
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From psc3 at psu.edu  Thu Jul 24 13:24:39 2008
From: psc3 at psu.edu (PRISCILLA S CARMAN)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 13:24:39 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1373] Re: Learning and Assessing in Virtual
	and	Real	Worlds
In-Reply-To: F57F6C89CAA27949BBB086B5D16CB805D9BB76@mccmail.fpsnet.org
References: <F57F6C89CAA27949BBB086B5D16CB805D9BB76@mccmail.fpsnet.org>
Message-ID: <1216920278l.647242l.0l@psu.edu>

Hi Marie and all,
I'm enjoying this fascinating discussion, especially since my last video game
obsession was Mario Brothers several decades ago--I still have that music in my
head, that for many months was often drifting from the living room at 2am in
the morning. But, I can't help wondering how this motivation and energy can be
harnessed for additional educational purposes---I have no doubt that current
gamers are already learning many valuable skills, but it seems like the concept
could be adapted for educational programming. Best, Priscilla 

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008
09:29 AM, "Kevin O'Connor" <koconnor at framingham.k12.ma.us>
wrote:
>


 
  
 

 
  0
  DocumentEmail
  
 

 
  
 

 
  Clean
  Clean
  DocumentEmail
  
  
   
   
   
   
  
  MicrosoftInternetExplorer4
 



>


>
>Hi
Marie,
>
>






>
> 
>
>






>
>Great
topic!  I had a World of Warcraft
compulsion last year, (along with 10,000,000 other users) and learned a lot
from my time online in this MMORPG (massively multiplayer online role playing
game). For one thing, I had to learn a lot of online lingo.  Here?s a very
short glossary:

>
>






?leet?
     or ?l33t?- the online language used; a dialect of English that
substitutes
     numbers for letters and leans heavily on texting and game-based
slang
>
>


 ?noob?-
     a ?newbie?; someone new to the game
>
>


 ?pwned?-
     or ?owned?; to be defeated
>
>


 LTP- ?learn
     to play?; an insult to someone?s online
skills
>
>




>
> 
>
>






>
>The other
players in Wow range in age from preteen to middle age, and it is quite a
community.  It was interesting to
be in the apprentice role to younger players, especially for an educator who is
used to being the teacher, not the noob. 
I found myself getting pwned by 12 year-old kids who have figured out
how to tweak the statistics of weapons, character type, skill attributes, mode
of attack and several other factors that always made my head spin.  I grew up
playing Asteroids too, and
all I had to do was repeatedly mash the same button! 
These kids put hours into their online character (their ?avatar?)
poring over stats, trying the same missions repeatedly (?grinding?) and
memorizing fussy names of coveted items (?poltroons of the lesser fire
elementals?).  It always struck me
that if their teacher asked them to put this kind of time and work into school
they would moan and roll their eyes, but if it is for the sake of leveling up,
well, then?
>
>






>
> 
>
>






>
>But the
other dynamic at play is the multi-player aspect; there are many missions that
cannot be done alone, and players belong to Guilds and must build short-term
?groups?
in order to get through these levels. 
If someone doesn?t work well in a group, word travels fast and that
person will have a hard time getting into a group with experienced
players.  You can?t steal all the loot,
not follow the plan and keep yelling ?LTP N00B? in the online chat and
expect to
be invited back.  There is a ?worldwide?
chat board, and if someone is a bad group member it will get broadcast.  
>
>






>
> 
>
>






>
>With this
long background, let me respond directly to Marie?s question: If you look at
the players whose character (or characters) have hit level 70, they are the
ones with the best knowledge of game dynamics and a good social network support
that they have built up by sharing and cooperation. However, if a student tells
a teacher that he or she has three level 70 characters and is part of a solid
Guild,
the teacher will not recognize the time, energy and skill invested and instead
tell
him or her to stop wasting time online, thereby dismissing everything learned
and accomplished; then the student dismisses the teacher as being
irrelevant.  Don?t just dismiss video games; they
are important to students, so they should be treated with interest, just as we
would do with other childhood pursuits in which children have invested
themselves.
>
>






>
> 
>
>






>
>There is a
dark side; many point to these kids having virtual friendships while living in
isolation in the real world, and when my daughter grows up I?m going to have
to
set some pretty strict rules around how much time can be spent in the virtual
world, but I would argue that through MMORPGs kids learn a lot about how to
work in a group, negotiate power sharing, and how and when to take
leadership.
>
>






>
> 
>
>






>
> AUTOTEXTLIST \s &quot;E-mail 
Signature&quot; Kevin
O'Connor
>
>






>
>Assessment
Specialist
>
>






>
>Framingham
Adult ESL PLUS
>
>






>
>508-626-4282
>
>






>
> 
>
>






>
>-----Original
Message-----
>From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf
Of Marie Cora
>Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008
4:36 PM
>To: 'The Assessment Discussion
List'
>Subject: [Assessment 1369]
Learning and Assessing in Virtual and Real Worlds




>
> 
>
>






>
>Dear
Colleagues,
>
>






>
> 
>
>






>
>I hope this
email finds you well.  This is an
unusually lengthy email from me ? just so you know.
>
>






>
> 
>
>






>
>Since it?s
summer, I thought I would throw out something a tad unusual as a discussion
catalyst.  Quite a while ago I read
a book called ?What Video Games Have to Teach Us About Learning and
Literacy?
by James Paul Gee (NY: Palgrave Macmillan, 2003).  The author studies behavior
and learning in people who
engage in video game and on-line play, and he himself becomes immersed in all
types of video and on-line gaming in order to also experience his own learning
and behavior within these environments. 
It?s a remarkable book. 
There are many poignant arguments made in support of how gaming
induces/encourages intense critical thinking, stretches the limits of one?s
intellectual abilities, compels people to work together, draws out
individuals?
skills that contribute to the success of a group, and generally does not
discriminate in terms of expectations of learning ? in other words, video and
on-line games are constructed in ways that assume that ANYONE can engage
successfully, and the necessary scaffolding for such learning is embedded
within the games themselves. 
Needless to say, Gee makes comparisons between this virtual world, and
the real world of school and education in this country.
>
>






>
> 
>
>






>
>Just for full
disclosure, the last time I fully engaged in ?screen? games was a while
ago:  I was pretty good at
Asteroids at one point in my life. 
I just never became very interested in pursuing this pastime.  I started to
become fascinated again
when my husband engaged our then-4-year-old son (he?s 9 now) in both video and
on-line games.  I was floored:  with almost no instruction other than
observation at his dad?s elbow, ?P? was able to take over the games and
carry
on as if he had always been playing them. 
Really complex games.  Very
soon, he was instructing dad in various games, and pretty much could beat the
pants off him in video baseball.
>
>






>
> 
>
>






>
>At any rate,
toward the end of the book, Gee recounts an experience in which he had moved
from a ?weak link? (one with far less knowledge) in a network of on-line
players with whom he was engaging, to one who held a piece of crucial knowledge
that he was able to share with his network in order for the group to reach
success.  He notes:  ?If you were to assess just my skills playing video games
alone in my own home, you would underestimate me.  You need to assess me as a
node in a network and see how I
function as such a node? (p. 189). 

>
>






>
> 
>
>






>
>With this
rather lengthy introduction, the following section of the book is really what I
would like to hear your thoughts on. 
Gee writes:
>
>






>
> 
>
>






>
>?If we want
to know how good students are in science ? or how good employees are in a
modern knowledge-centered workplace ? we should ask all of the following (and
not just the first):  What is in
their heads?  How well can they
leverage knowledge in other people and in various tools and technologies
(including
their environment)?  How are they
positioned within a network that connects them in rich ways to other people and
various tools and technologies? 
Schools tend to care only about what is inside students? heads as their
heads and bodies are isolated from others, from tools and technologies, and from
rich environments that help make them powerful modes in networks.  [Skilled
video game players] wouldn?t
play a game in these circumstances?.. 
Good workplaces in our science- and technology-driven ?new capitalism?
don?t play this game.  Schools that
do are, in my view, DOA in our current world ? and kids who play video games
know it? (p. 189).
>
>






>
> 
>
>






>
>Gee then goes
on to discuss the work of Jean Lave, a leading theorist of socially situated
cognition.  Lave argues that
?learning is not best judged by a change in minds (the traditional school
measure), but by ?changing participation in changing practices??and
that??learning is a change not just in practice, but in identity? (p.
190).
>
>






>
> 
>
>






>
>Now here is
where I?m tempted to write you a bunch of assessment-related questions to get
you to respond within the context of this Discussion List.  But after some
thought, I think that
the quotes taken from the book from both Gee and Lave better posit the notions
related to assessment and assessing than I can ? what they say is what I want
to hear you respond to.  
>
>






>
> 
>
>






>
>Ok, I will
pose just this question:  if you
agree with the arguments posed by Gee and Lave, do you do anything in your
classroom or program to facilitate this type of assessment of learning?  If so,
describe this for us.
>
>






>
> 
>
>






>
>Thanks for
indulging me.
>
>






>
> 
>
>






>
>Marie Cora
>
>






>
> 
>
>






>
> 
>
>






>
> 
>
>






>
> 
>
>






>
> 
>
>






>
> 
>
>






>
>Marie Cora
>
>






>
><#>
>
>






>
>NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>
>






>
><http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>
>






>
> 
>
>






>
> 
>
>









Priscilla Carman
Literacy Specialist
Institute for the Study of Adult Literacy
Penn State University
208F Rackley Building
University Park, PA 16802
PH: 814-865-1049   FX: 814-863-6108



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From Tina.Luffman at yc.edu  Thu Jul 24 18:21:51 2008
From: Tina.Luffman at yc.edu (Luffman, Tina, Ellen)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:21:51 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1374] Re: Learning and Assessing in
	Virtual	and	Real	Worlds
In-Reply-To: <1216920278l.647242l.0l@psu.edu>
References: <F57F6C89CAA27949BBB086B5D16CB805D9BB76@mccmail.fpsnet.org>
	<1216920278l.647242l.0l@psu.edu>
Message-ID: <480F5D7796E2AD4D89E56FD2BDA543154C1419D2D7@OLYMPIA.yc.edu>

Hi everyone,

W recently purchased a Nintendo wii at our house. To be honest, this system is great for physical training. I look forward to getting some time to find my point of balance, improve my serve, and there is also Big Brain Academy to help with sorting patterns and so on. It is actually challenging for me, and I have a strong sense that children find navigating the game much more intuitive than we adults do. If a game can train physical skills, I am sure it can train mental aptitude as well.

Finding the right system and software that are geared for positive skill training rather than for violence and mayhem are key to success in deciding to use games for learning. I believe that we as educators should keep this in mind and try to remain open to the idea of games that enhance learning. I have seen a lot of educational games that did not seem to be worthy. Please keep us posted when you find one. It is so much more fun to teach engaged, interested students than those who are bored.

Thanks,

Tina


From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of PRISCILLA S CARMAN
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 10:25 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1373] Re: Learning and Assessing in Virtual and Real Worlds

Hi Marie and all,
I'm enjoying this fascinating discussion, especially since my last video game obsession was Mario Brothers several decades ago--I still have that music in my head, that for many months was often drifting from the living room at 2am in the morning. But, I can't help wondering how this motivation and energy can be harnessed for additional educational purposes---I have no doubt that current gamers are already learning many valuable skills, but it seems like the concept could be adapted for educational programming. Best, Priscilla

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 09:29 AM, "Kevin O'Connor" <koconnor at framingham.k12.ma.us> wrote:

Hi Marie,

Great topic!  I had a World of Warcraft compulsion last year, (along with 10,000,000 other users) and learned a lot from my time online in this MMORPG (massively multiplayer online role playing game). For one thing, I had to learn a lot of online lingo.  Here?s a very short glossary:

 *   ?leet? or ?l33t?- the online language used; a dialect of English that substitutes numbers for letters and leans heavily on texting and game-based slang
 *   ?noob?- a ?newbie?; someone new to the game
 *   ?pwned?- or ?owned?; to be defeated
 *   LTP- ?learn to play?; an insult to someone?s online skills

The other players in Wow range in age from preteen to middle age, and it is quite a community.  It was interesting to be in the apprentice role to younger players, especially for an educator who is used to being the teacher, not the noob.  I found myself getting pwned by 12 year-old kids who have figured out how to tweak the statistics of weapons, character type, skill attributes, mode of attack and several other factors that always made my head spin.  I grew up playing Asteroids too, and all I had to do was repeatedly mash the same button!  These kids put hours into their online character (their ?avatar?) poring over stats, trying the same missions repeatedly (?grinding?) and memorizing fussy names of coveted items (?poltroons of the lesser fire elementals?).  It always struck me that if their teacher asked them to put this kind of time and work into school they would moan and roll their eyes, but if it is for the sake of leveling up, well, then?

But the other dynamic at play is the multi-player aspect; there are many missions that cannot be done alone, and players belong to Guilds and must build short-term ?groups? in order to get through these levels.  If someone doesn?t work well in a group, word travels fast and that person will have a hard time getting into a group with experienced players.  You can?t steal all the loot, not follow the plan and keep yelling ?LTP N00B? in the online chat and expect to be invited back.  There is a ?worldwide? chat board, and if someone is a bad group member it will get broadcast.

With this long background, let me respond directly to Marie?s question: If you look at the players whose character (or characters) have hit level 70, they are the ones with the best knowledge of game dynamics and a good social network support that they have built up by sharing and cooperation. However, if a student tells a teacher that he or she has three level 70 characters and is part of a solid Guild, the teacher will not recognize the time, energy and skill invested and instead tell him or her to stop wasting time online, thereby dismissing everything learned and accomplished; then the student dismisses the teacher as being irrelevant.  Don?t just dismiss video games; they are important to students, so they should be treated with interest, just as we would do with other childhood pursuits in which children have invested themselves.

There is a dark side; many point to these kids having virtual friendships while living in isolation in the real world, and when my daughter grows up I?m going to have to set some pretty strict rules around how much time can be spent in the virtual world, but I would argue that through MMORPGs kids learn a lot about how to work in a group, negotiate power sharing, and how and when to take leadership.


Kevin O'Connor

Assessment Specialist

Framingham Adult ESL PLUS

508-626-4282

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 4:36 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1369] Learning and Assessing in Virtual and Real Worlds

Dear Colleagues,

I hope this email finds you well.  This is an unusually lengthy email from me ? just so you know.

Since it?s summer, I thought I would throw out something a tad unusual as a discussion catalyst.  Quite a while ago I read a book called ?What Video Games Have to Teach Us About Learning and Literacy? by James Paul Gee (NY: Palgrave Macmillan, 2003).  The author studies behavior and learning in people who engage in video game and on-line play, and he himself becomes immersed in all types of video and on-line gaming in order to also experience his own learning and behavior within these environments.  It?s a remarkable book.  There are many poignant arguments made in support of how gaming induces/encourages intense critical thinking, stretches the limits of one?s intellectual abilities, compels people to work together, draws out individuals? skills that contribute to the success of a group, and generally does not discriminate in terms of expectations of learning ? in other words, video and on-line games are constructed in ways that assume that ANYONE can engage successfully, and the necessary scaffolding for such learning is embedded within the games themselves.  Needless to say, Gee makes comparisons between this virtual world, and the real world of school and education in this country.

Just for full disclosure, the last time I fully engaged in ?screen? games was a while ago:  I was pretty good at Asteroids at one point in my life.  I just never became very interested in pursuing this pastime.  I started to become fascinated again when my husband engaged our then-4-year-old son (he?s 9 now) in both video and on-line games.  I was floored:  with almost no instruction other than observation at his dad?s elbow, ?P? was able to take over the games and carry on as if he had always been playing them.  Really complex games.  Very soon, he was instructing dad in various games, and pretty much could beat the pants off him in video baseball.

At any rate, toward the end of the book, Gee recounts an experience in which he had moved from a ?weak link? (one with far less knowledge) in a network of on-line players with whom he was engaging, to one who held a piece of crucial knowledge that he was able to share with his network in order for the group to reach success.  He notes:  ?If you were to assess just my skills playing video games alone in my own home, you would underestimate me.  You need to assess me as a node in a network and see how I function as such a node? (p. 189).

With this rather lengthy introduction, the following section of the book is really what I would like to hear your thoughts on.  Gee writes:

?If we want to know how good students are in science ? or how good employees are in a modern knowledge-centered workplace ? we should ask all of the following (and not just the first):  What is in their heads?  How well can they leverage knowledge in other people and in various tools and technologies (including their environment)?  How are they positioned within a network that connects them in rich ways to other people and various tools and technologies?  Schools tend to care only about what is inside students? heads as their heads and bodies are isolated from others, from tools and technologies, and from rich environments that help make them powerful modes in networks.  [Skilled video game players] wouldn?t play a game in these circumstances?..  Good workplaces in our science- and technology-driven ?new capitalism? don?t play this game.  Schools that do are, in my view, DOA in our current world ? and kids who play video games know it? (p. 189).

Gee then goes on to discuss the work of Jean Lave, a leading theorist of socially situated cognition.  Lave argues that ?learning is not best judged by a change in minds (the traditional school measure), but by ?changing participation in changing practices??and that??learning is a change not just in practice, but in identity? (p. 190).

Now here is where I?m tempted to write you a bunch of assessment-related questions to get you to respond within the context of this Discussion List.  But after some thought, I think that the quotes taken from the book from both Gee and Lave better posit the notions related to assessment and assessing than I can ? what they say is what I want to hear you respond to.

Ok, I will pose just this question:  if you agree with the arguments posed by Gee and Lave, do you do anything in your classroom or program to facilitate this type of assessment of learning?  If so, describe this for us.

Thanks for indulging me.

Marie Cora






Marie Cora
marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment


Priscilla Carman
Literacy Specialist
Institute for the Study of Adult Literacy
Penn State University
208F Rackley Building
University Park, PA 16802
PH: 814-865-1049 FX: 814-863-6108

-------------- next part --------------
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From katherine.gotthardt at gmail.com  Fri Jul 25 09:11:59 2008
From: katherine.gotthardt at gmail.com (Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 09:11:59 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1375] Re: Learning and Assessing in Virtual and Real
	Worlds
In-Reply-To: <1216920278l.647242l.0l@psu.edu>
References: <F57F6C89CAA27949BBB086B5D16CB805D9BB76@mccmail.fpsnet.org>
	<1216920278l.647242l.0l@psu.edu>
Message-ID: <ac3a53cd0807250611u3a82c34agf30e5946f2fb8fdf@mail.gmail.com>

With the exception of me, my whole family plays online games. I just don't
have the patience to learn the complicated rules.  And that is key to the
kinds of games my husband and girls; ages 10 and 11, play:  they are
strategic, rule-based games that require reading and thinking.  They require
collaboration.  They require keyboarding skills.  Note, they do not play
realistic, violent games (they play fantasy games like World of Warcraft
which reminds me of Dungeons and Dragons).  They are only allowed to type to
each other, not to strangers.  They are only allowed to play when at least
one parent is in the room.

When they get frustrated with the game and start acting out ("STUPID
COMPUTER!"), they are kicked off by the Mom who listens to their talk.  When
they say things like "kill," they are told to stop it, though this is common
to most PC games, even the more innocuous ones.  Remember Atari had us blow
everything up or pulverize at the very least.

Both my kids also play a variety of educational games (such as typing
programs).

Me? I like Pogo's Word Womp.  It's easy to understand, and it is word based,
which is fun for me.

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 1:24 PM, PRISCILLA S CARMAN <psc3 at psu.edu> wrote:

>  Hi Marie and all,
> I'm enjoying this fascinating discussion, especially since my last video
> game obsession was Mario Brothers several decades ago--I still have that
> music in my head, that for many months was often drifting from the living
> room at 2am in the morning. But, I can't help wondering how this motivation
> and energy can be harnessed for additional educational purposes---I have no
> doubt that current gamers are already learning many valuable skills, but it
> seems like the concept could be adapted for educational programming. Best,
> Priscilla
>
> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 09:29 AM, *"Kevin O'Connor" <
> koconnor at framingham.k12.ma.us>* wrote:
>
>  Hi Marie,
>
>
>
>  Great topic!  I had a World of Warcraft compulsion last year, (along with
> 10,000,000 other users) and learned a lot from my time online in this MMORPG
> (massively multiplayer online role playing game). For one thing, I had to
> learn a lot of online lingo.  Here's a very short glossary:
>
>
>    - "leet" or 'l33t"- the online language used; a dialect of English that
>    substitutes numbers for letters and leans heavily on texting and game-based
>    slang
>
>    - "noob"- a "newbie"; someone new to the game
>
>    - "pwned"- or "owned"; to be defeated
>
>    - LTP- "learn to play"; an insult to someone's online skills
>
>
>
>
>  The other players in Wow range in age from preteen to middle age, and it
> is quite a community.  It was interesting to be in the apprentice role to
> younger players, especially for an educator who is used to being the
> teacher, not the noob.  I found myself getting pwned by 12 year-old kids
> who have figured out how to tweak the statistics of weapons, character type,
> skill attributes, mode of attack and several other factors that always made
> my head spin.  I grew up playing Asteroids too, and all I had to do was
> repeatedly mash the same button!  These kids put hours into their online
> character (their "avatar") poring over stats, trying the same missions
> repeatedly ("grinding") and memorizing fussy names of coveted items
> ("poltroons of the lesser fire elementals").  It always struck me that if
> their teacher asked them to put this kind of time and work into school they
> would moan and roll their eyes, but if it is for the sake of leveling up,
> well, then?
>
>
>
>  But the other dynamic at play is the multi-player aspect; there are many
> missions that cannot be done alone, and players belong to Guilds and must
> build short-term "groups" in order to get through these levels.  If
> someone doesn't work well in a group, word travels fast and that person will
> have a hard time getting into a group with experienced players.  You can't
> steal all the loot, not follow the plan and keep yelling "LTP N00B" in the
> online chat and expect to be invited back.  There is a "worldwide" chat
> board, and if someone is a bad group member it will get broadcast.
>
>
>
>  With this long background, let me respond directly to Marie's question:
> If you look at the players whose character (or characters) have hit level
> 70, they are the ones with the best knowledge of game dynamics and a good
> social network support that they have built up by sharing and cooperation.
> However, if a student tells a teacher that he or she has three level 70
> characters and is part of a solid Guild, the teacher will not recognize the
> time, energy and skill invested and instead tell him or her to stop wasting
> time online, thereby dismissing everything learned and accomplished; then
> the student dismisses the teacher as being irrelevant.  Don't just dismiss
> video games; they are important to students, so they should be treated with
> interest, just as we would do with other childhood pursuits in which
> children have invested themselves.
>
>
>
>  There is a dark side; many point to these kids having virtual friendships
> while living in isolation in the real world, and when my daughter grows up
> I'm going to have to set some pretty strict rules around how much time can
> be spent in the virtual world, but I would argue that through MMORPGs kids
> learn a lot about how to work in a group, negotiate power sharing, and how
> and when to take leadership.
>
>
>
>  Kevin O'Connor
>
>  Assessment Specialist
>
>  Framingham Adult ESL PLUS
>
>  508-626-4282
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> *From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]*On
> Behalf Of *Marie Cora
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 23, 2008 4:36 PM
> *To:* 'The Assessment Discussion List'
> *Subject:* [Assessment 1369] Learning and Assessing in Virtual and Real
> Worlds
>
>
>
>  Dear Colleagues,
>
>
>
>  I hope this email finds you well.  This is an unusually lengthy email
> from me ? just so you know.
>
>
>
>  Since it's summer, I thought I would throw out something a tad unusual as
> a discussion catalyst.  Quite a while ago I read a book called "What Video
> Games Have to Teach Us About Learning and Literacy" by James Paul Gee (NY:
> Palgrave Macmillan, 2003).  The author studies behavior and learning in
> people who engage in video game and on-line play, and he himself becomes
> immersed in all types of video and on-line gaming in order to also
> experience his own learning and behavior within these environments.  It's
> a remarkable book.  There are many poignant arguments made in support of
> how gaming induces/encourages intense critical thinking, stretches the
> limits of one's intellectual abilities, compels people to work together,
> draws out individuals' skills that contribute to the success of a group, and
> generally does not discriminate in terms of expectations of learning ? in
> other words, video and on-line games are constructed in ways that assume
> that ANYONE can engage successfully, and the necessary scaffolding for such
> learning is embedded within the games themselves.  Needless to say, Gee
> makes comparisons between this virtual world, and the real world of school
> and education in this country.
>
>
>
>  Just for full disclosure, the last time I fully engaged in 'screen' games
> was a while ago:  I was pretty good at Asteroids at one point in my life.
> I just never became very interested in pursuing this pastime.  I started
> to become fascinated again when my husband engaged our then-4-year-old son
> (he's 9 now) in both video and on-line games.  I was floored:  with almost
> no instruction other than observation at his dad's elbow, 'P' was able to
> take over the games and carry on as if he had always been playing them.  Really
> complex games.  Very soon, he was instructing dad in various games, and
> pretty much could beat the pants off him in video baseball.
>
>
>
>  At any rate, toward the end of the book, Gee recounts an experience in
> which he had moved from a "weak link" (one with far less knowledge) in a
> network of on-line players with whom he was engaging, to one who held a
> piece of crucial knowledge that he was able to share with his network in
> order for the group to reach success.  He notes:  "If you were to assess
> just my skills playing video games alone in my own home, you would
> underestimate me.  You need to assess me as a node in a network and see
> how I function as such a node" (p. 189).
>
>
>
>  With this rather lengthy introduction, the following section of the book
> is really what I would like to hear your thoughts on.  Gee writes:
>
>
>
>  "If we want to know how good students are in science ? or how good
> employees are in a modern knowledge-centered workplace ? we should ask all
> of the following (and not just the first):  What is in their heads?  How
> well can they leverage knowledge in other people and in various tools and
> technologies (including their environment)?  How are they positioned
> within a network that connects them in rich ways to other people and various
> tools and technologies?  Schools tend to care only about what is inside
> students' heads as their heads and bodies are isolated from others, from
> tools and technologies, and from rich environments that help make them
> powerful modes in networks.  [Skilled video game players] wouldn't play a
> game in these circumstances?..  Good workplaces in our science- and
> technology-driven "new capitalism" don't play this game.  Schools that do
> are, in my view, DOA in our current world ? and kids who play video games
> know it" (p. 189).
>
>
>
>  Gee then goes on to discuss the work of Jean Lave, a leading theorist of
> socially situated cognition.  Lave argues that "learning is not best
> judged by a change in minds (the traditional school measure), but by
> 'changing participation in changing practices'?and that?"learning is a
> change not just in practice, but in *identity*" (p. 190).
>
>
>
>  Now here is where I'm tempted to write you a bunch of assessment-related
> questions to get you to respond within the context of this Discussion List.
> But after some thought, I think that the quotes taken from the book from
> both Gee and Lave better posit the notions related to assessment and
> assessing than I can ? what they say is what I want to hear you respond to.
>
>
>
>
>  Ok, I will pose just this question:  if you agree with the arguments
> posed by Gee and Lave, do you do anything in your classroom or program to
> facilitate this type of assessment of learning?  If so, describe this for
> us.
>
>
>
>  Thanks for indulging me.
>
>
>
>  Marie Cora
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  Marie Cora
>
>  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com<http://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=80lCHVuPxfI&am=R_E4pcLnBaQ6bg#11b562bda24b54f6_>
>
>  NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>
>  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>
>
>
>
> Priscilla Carman
> Literacy Specialist
> Institute for the Study of Adult Literacy
> Penn State University
> 208F Rackley Building
> University Park, PA 16802
> PH: 814-865-1049 FX: 814-863-6108
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to katherine.gotthardt at gmail.com
>
>


-- 
Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt
www.LuxuriousChoices.net
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From teacherwendyq at gmail.com  Sun Jul 27 12:06:30 2008
From: teacherwendyq at gmail.com (Wendy Quinones)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 12:06:30 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1376] Re: Learning and Assessing in Virtual and Real
	Worlds
In-Reply-To: <ac3a53cd0807250611u3a82c34agf30e5946f2fb8fdf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F57F6C89CAA27949BBB086B5D16CB805D9BB76@mccmail.fpsnet.org>
	<1216920278l.647242l.0l@psu.edu>
	<ac3a53cd0807250611u3a82c34agf30e5946f2fb8fdf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ad2cc1ef0807270906t78bb7cabw17952e93ad957607@mail.gmail.com>

This is the topic of the decade, it seems to me, especially as at least in
ABE we are seeing more and more younger students who are way ahead of most
of us old fogies in terms of technology.

An interesting note:  My 26-year-old son is in a game design program at
Champlain College.  Through this, I've learned that the industry itself is
extremely dependent on teamwork, which is one of the things they teach in
this program.  My son is in an internship this summer in which he is
designing games and adding levels.  He was showing me some of his work,
saying, "At this level I want them to learn...and in this level they should
learn..."  So game designers are definitely aware of the pedagogy invoved,
as Gee points out (fabulous book, by the way -- everybody should read it!).


I also learned through my son's program that there is a whole side of the
industry called "serious games," which I was advised a year ago to Google.
Having just done so, I just discovered the "Serious Games Blog,"
http://seriousgamesblog.blogspot.com/ which seems to be a portal for all
kinds of interesting information on educational and other games designed for
educational purposes.  I'd love it if others would help me check it out!

Wendy Quinones
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From tsticht at znet.com  Mon Jul 28 21:29:07 2008
From: tsticht at znet.com (tsticht at znet.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:29:07 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1377]  Adult Literacy Awareness Campaigns
Message-ID: <1217294947.488e72639f799@webmail.znet.net>

July 28, 2008

Adult Literacy Awareness Campaigns Need to Accurately Represent Adult
Literacy Problems and Promote Appropriate Adult Education Programs

Tom Sticht

Since the mid-1970s the United Kingdom has repeatedly made use of television
in campaigns to make adults aware of the problems of adult literacy and to
encourage those with perceived difficulties to seek educational assistance.
On Monday July 21st the BBC Channel 4 broadcast the first of a new three
part series of TV shows that once again bring the problems of adult
literacy to the attention of the public.

However, like the various TV shows that have appeared on American TV about
adult literacy problems, the BBC program has stimulated the press and
others to refer to some 5 million "illiterate" adults when discussing the
adult literacy problem. Similarly, in the U. S., media frequently take the
results of national adult literacy surveys that show that many adults have
low literacy and translates this into discussions of adult "illiteracy."
When the 1993 National Adult Literacy Survey (NALS) came out reporting some
47 percent (90 million) adults with low literacy, the San Diego
Union-Tribune, the major newspaper where I live, ran an article headlined:
"Illiteracy hurts half of adults." This was, of course, a total
misrepresentation of the facts but one that was nonetheless followed in a
number of media reports.

This type of misrepresentation of adult literacy problems was challenged
following the recent TV show called "Can't read, can't write," by the
National Institute for Adult Continuing Education (NIACE) in the United
Kingdom. On its web site (www.niace.org.uk) NIACE posted a critique of the
program that aims to correct the reference to adults with low literacy as
"illiterate." The NIACE message states:

Quote: " There are not 5 million illiterate adults in Britain despite how
many times you will read this statement over the next few days and weeks
following the Channel 4 programme. The programme doesn?t say this but
that?s how the press interprets things. There are, more than likely, around
5 million adults in Britain who have difficulties with reading, at one level
or another. Most can read signs, simple texts and bits and pieces in the
newspaper but they don?t have a range of reading strategies to tackle a
variety of texts. They may read slowly, hesitantly, or are easily put off
by difficult words and long sentences. They may not be able to scan a text
to pick out the key information they need but tend to read every word.
Adult literacy teachers work with these learners and those who are complete
beginners to show them a range of strategies; present them with different
texts that are graded for complexity and build their vocabulary as they
gradually increase in confidence. Reading is not simply understanding
sounds and de-coding words. It includes knowledge and understanding of the
context, a motivation to read, fluency, and the ability to use active
comprehension strategies." End Quote

The NIACE critique goes on to question the approach of the program in which
adults were given instruction for just six months using an actor Quote: "

who admitted he has never taught anyone to read in his life, but is a bit
of a TV star." End Quote In the U. S. in an awareness campaign of the 1980s
the appeal was made for volunteers to tutor adult literacy students and it
was claimed that the preparation for teaching adults was no particular
educational degree or credential but rather just "a degree of caring."

The NIACE message calls attention to the problems with the three part series
in the awareness campaign fronted by the "Can't read, can't write" program. 
But the message goes on to say that, Quote:  "Despite this, anything that
prompts more adults to seek help with literacy difficulties cannot be all
bad ? and it may also stimulate a more sophisticated analysis and public
debate about what makes effective teachers and learning resources." End
Quote The NIACE piece is a good beginning for this  discussion in the U.K.
I hope that in any future awareness campaigns about adult literacy problems
in the U.S. this type of discussion will be taken ahead of time so that the
difficulties facing both adult learners and teachers will not be
over-simplified. Too often this type of over-simplification of adult
literacy education leads policymakers to respond with under-funding for
serious efforts in adult education.

Thomas G. Sticht
International Consultant in Adult Education
Email: tsticht at aznet.net





From George.Dziuk at lbb.state.tx.us  Tue Jul 29 09:44:30 2008
From: George.Dziuk at lbb.state.tx.us (George Dziuk)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:44:30 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1378] Re: Learning and Assessing in Virtual and	Real
	Worlds
Message-ID: <488ED86D.F05A.00BE.0@lbb.state.tx.us>

As an avid gamer that has played massive multiplayer games (MMOs) for almost 10 years now (using a previously mentioned gamed: I've played World of Warcraft for 4), I can attest to the many learning opportunities that are available from the experience. For example, in almost all cases these games absolutely require group interaction to meet in-game challenges. This extreme focus on team work is coupled with additional requirements that aren't just about how fast you can punch a keyboard, but require a pretty significant amount of number crunching to make sure your character's equipment is maximizing whatever role that character fills in these groups...be it healing your allies, dishing out damage on a creature, or bearing the brunt of the creature attacks. 
 
Rather than spending time addressing the educational benefits, I'd like to talk about the challenges to using these games as an educational tool that would need to be overcome before they could be successfully employed as a medium for learning opportunities on a system-wide scale: 
 
1. Technology: Most PC games today have pretty hefty hardware requirements that require expensive video cards, processors and RAM to just run them. These PCs, on average, can be quite expensive...not including software costs which can run you almost $45 per license with monthly subscription fees typically running $15 per month. 
 
2. Safety & Security: Even with filters, the language over public chat channels in MMOs can definitely be classified as adult oriented in many cases. Additionally, from a safety standpoint, children playing these games are exposed to a wide range of people who also play these games coming from across the country or, in some cases, around the world. Additionally, there are increasing instances of other people using "keyloggers" to acquire the log in information of players, log into these people's accounts, sell all of their materials and then transfer the ingame money to their own accounts which is then subsequently sold for real money through a website. For more information on this type of trade just do a search on "Gold Farmers". 
 
3. Time Commitment: MMOs require massive amounts of time which can in some cases amount to almost a part time job. 
 
In order to address the above issues, an interested entity, be it government, CBO, local education agency, etc..., would need to work directly with the software developer to create a server that would used solely by the participating school(s) with very specific access requirements to ensure that only students from those schools could play on that server.
 
George Dziuk
Texas Legislative Budget Board
School Performance Review
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From mariecora at gmail.com  Tue Jul 29 12:36:02 2008
From: mariecora at gmail.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:36:02 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1379]  education and games
Message-ID: <456aed460807290936l4849c5e6vf48c62656f424187@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,



This has been an interesting discussion on the benefits and challenges of
using games in learning.  I encourage you to continue.  However, in keeping
with the topic of this Discussion List, I'm going to ask that people be
posting with assessment in mind.



Several folks have shared either specific experiences with screen games, or
suggestions for types of games to use.  I would like to hear how you close
the 'loop' when using these types of games for learning.  Some of this is
certainly implied in the posts that we have read for the past few days, but
I would like to hear more specifically:



-how did you go about selecting a particular game to use (tied to needs
assessment)

-what specific goals are you trying to achieve (student goal achievement)

-how do you determine if a person has mastered a particular task ? as
measured against oneself and as measured against a larger peer group
(learning gains)

-how do you determine whether the skills gained within the 'screen-based
classroom tasks' are being used in the real world for real-life purposes
(transfer of skills)



I'm sure there are more catalyst questions focused on various aspects of
assessment ? I just throw these out there for you to get you thinking.



Looking forward to hearing more,



Marie







Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List

National Institute for Literacy

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment



Coordinator of Assessment

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html
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From katherine.gotthardt at gmail.com  Fri Aug  1 19:53:19 2008
From: katherine.gotthardt at gmail.com (Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 19:53:19 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1380] Re: Learning and Assessing in Virtual and Real
	Worlds
In-Reply-To: <488ED86D.F05A.00BE.0@lbb.state.tx.us>
References: <488ED86D.F05A.00BE.0@lbb.state.tx.us>
Message-ID: <ac3a53cd0808011653waf804b8oa8bcb89c3e3e241a@mail.gmail.com>

Question (as my husband sits here enjoying playing WOW):

How would ESOL and low level readers deal with the texting component of
these games?  How would they deal with the intricate instructions and
details?  The premises and story lines are often complicated and use melded
vocabulary as well as "gamer lingo."  Fantasy characters and made-up words
create some confusing communications.  I can tell you, as a native speaker
and reader, I cannot manage these games.

How would you implement MMO's in a classroom with any amount of success?
Are you talking about using them just for advanced students?

On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 9:44 AM, George Dziuk
<George.Dziuk at lbb.state.tx.us>wrote:

>  As an avid gamer that has played massive multiplayer games (MMOs) for
> almost 10 years now (using a previously mentioned gamed: I've played World
> of Warcraft for 4), I can attest to the many learning opportunities that are
> available from the experience. For example, in almost all cases these games
> absolutely require group interaction to meet in-game challenges. This
> extreme focus on team work is coupled with additional requirements that
> aren't just about how fast you can punch a keyboard, but require a pretty
> significant amount of number crunching to make sure your character's
> equipment is maximizing whatever role that character fills in these
> groups...be it healing your allies, dishing out damage on a creature, or
> bearing the brunt of the creature attacks.
>
> Rather than spending time addressing the educational benefits, I'd like to
> talk about the challenges to using these games as an educational tool that
> would need to be overcome before they could be successfully employed as a
> medium for learning opportunities on a system-wide scale:
>
> *1. Technology:* Most PC games today have pretty hefty hardware
> requirements that require expensive video cards, processors and RAM to just
> run them. These PCs, on average, can be quite expensive...not including
> software costs which can run you almost $45 per license with monthly
> subscription fees typically running $15 per month.
>
> *2. Safety & Security:* Even with filters, the language over public chat
> channels in MMOs can definitely be classified as adult oriented in *many*cases. Additionally, from a safety standpoint, children playing these games
> are exposed to a wide range of people who also play these games coming from
> across the country or, in some cases, around the world. Additionally, there
> are increasing instances of other people using "keyloggers" to acquire the
> log in information of players, log into these people's accounts, sell all of
> their materials and then transfer the ingame money to their own accounts
> which is then subsequently sold for real money through a website. For more
> information on this type of trade just do a search on "Gold Farmers".
>
> *3. Time Commitment:* MMOs require massive amounts of time which can in
> some cases amount to almost a part time job.
>
> In order to address the above issues, an interested entity, be it
> government, CBO, local education agency, etc..., would need to work directly
> with the software developer to create a server that would used solely by the
> participating school(s) with very specific access requirements to ensure
> that only students from those schools could play on that server.
>
> George Dziuk
> Texas Legislative Budget Board
> School Performance Review
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to katherine.gotthardt at gmail.com
>
>


-- 
Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt
www.LuxuriousChoices.net
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From mariecora at gmail.com  Mon Aug  4 12:54:04 2008
From: mariecora at gmail.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 12:54:04 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1381] How you communicate success: search for model
	programs extended!
Message-ID: <456aed460808040954x3ef78c93n972012ac22845b0f@mail.gmail.com>

*Deadline Extended to **August 7, 2008**!!*

*ProLiteracy Seeks Model Programs for Performance Accountability Initiative*
*
Deadline for Application ? **August 7, 2008*

With funding from the Dollar General Literacy Foundation, ProLiteracy is
leading a three-year national project known as the *Dollar
General/ProLiteracy Performance Accountability Initiative*.



This project identifies promising practices for collecting, analyzing, and
using student and program assessment data to demonstrate and communicate
program effectiveness.



This year's (2008-2009) theme is *Communicating Success to Stakeholders*.



As in the previous years, ProLiteracy will choose up to eight model programs
that demonstrate promising accountability practices related to communicating
success.



Those selected as model programs will receive:



?        a $1,500 stipend



?        increased national visibility



?        an opportunity to extend their positive impact to the literacy and
adult education field across the U.S.

The deadline for accepting nominations via e-mail is* **August 7, 2008*

Please visit http://www.proliteracy.org/external/dg_pai.asp to read the
guidelines and to complete a nomination form.

Please forward this information to other programs that have increased their
program resources and effectiveness by communicating their success to
stakeholders.

Should you have any questions, please contact Marie Cora, Project Manager,
via e-mail at mcora at proliteracy.org.
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From kbeall at onlyinternet.net  Tue Aug 12 11:51:34 2008
From: kbeall at onlyinternet.net (Kaye Beall)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:51:34 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1382] NCTN's College Transition Toolkit is available
	now!
Message-ID: <005501c8fc93$4cce9c20$040ba8c0@D14J7YD1>

Greetings --

 

The National College Transition Network (NCTN) is pleased to announce its
newest publication: The College Transition Toolkit. It is a comprehensive
guide to program planning and implementation that draws on the expertise of
practitioners from The New England ABE-to-College Transition Project and
around the country. 

 

The College Transition Toolkit contains detailed information to help adult
educators and administrators plan for the needs of students interested in
pursuing postsecondary education and training. Chapter titles include:
Program Models; Partnerships and Collaborations; Recruitment; Assessment;
Counseling; Curriculum and Instruction; Planning; and Using Data for Program
Development. The toolkit also provides templates that you can download and
adapt for use in developing your college transition program, links to a
variety of online resources, and supplementary printable resources. 

 

For more details about the toolkit and information on ordering yours, visit
http://collegetransition.org/toolkit.html 

 

If you have further questions about the Toolkit, please feel free to call
Priyanka Sharma at 617-385-3788 or email her at psharma at worlded.org. 

 

 

 

Kaye Beall

Project Director

World Education

6760 West Street

Linn Grove, IN 46711

765-717-3942

kaye_beall at worlded.org

www.worlded.org

 

 

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From gspangenberg at caalusa.org  Mon Aug 18 08:33:14 2008
From: gspangenberg at caalusa.org (Gail Spangenberg)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 08:33:14 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1383]  June 26th National Commission Panel in DVD
Message-ID: <491501C2-71AF-4FCF-A3D2-19B01057F063@caalusa.org>

Colleagues,

As you know, the National Commission on Adult Literacy released its  
final report, Reach Higher, America at an event at the U.S. Capitol  
on June 26th. The panel presentation and Q&A from that morning are  
now available in 5 short DVD segments from the Commission's website:  
www.nationalcommissiononadultliteracy.org. Go to the Get Reports page  
and scroll to the bottom for the link. You will be able to view the  
segments on both PC and Mac platforms with current Flash or QuickTime  
players.

Note that the full DVD can also be purchased from CAAL for a nominal  
sum (contact bheitner at caalusa.org for instructions and cost).

Apologies to those of you who have been awaiting this material for  
some time. We appreciate your patience.

Gail S


.
Gail Spangenberg
President
Council for Advancement of Adult Literacy
1221 Avenue of the Americas - 46th Fl
New York, NY 10020
212-512-2362, F: 212-512-2610
www.caalusa.org



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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Wed Aug 27 08:26:23 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:26:23 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1384]  Seeking your feedback!
Message-ID: <017101c90840$1f6df9c0$3c1acd63@LITNOW>

Dear Colleagues, I hope this email finds you well. 
We are interested in gathering your feedback on how to more clearly
articulate how you (and other subscribers) use the Assessment Discussion
List (and possibly other NIFL lists). 
For example, the Institute's lists
(http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/discussions.html) historically
have been used to 

* Problem solve 
* Request or receive information 
* Seek others' teaching or learning experiences 
* Introduce, discuss, and develop projects and resources 
* Introduce field experts and dialogue with them about their work 
* Raise awareness of and debate key issues important to the field 
* Plan, preview, and report on sessions held at national conferences 
* Identify who has knowledge and learn about our field's knowledge gaps 

Some would call groups engaged in this kind of activity "communities of
practice" (CoPs) http://www.ewenger.com/theory/index.htm . 

Communities of practice are: 
Groups of people who share a concern or a passion for something they do
and they learn how to do it better as they interact regularly. 

CoPs share a common interest and commitment to that interest that
distinguishes them from others, they engage in joint learning activities
(whether intentional or not), build relationships that enable them to
learn from one another, and they strive to improve what they do. 

Do any of you have any feedback concerning the following questions: 
1)      What are your reactions to using this language "communities of
practice" to describe who we are and what we do, or for some, what we
strive for on the list? 
2)      Is this how you see yourself on this discussion list? Or, could
you see yourself becoming more involved in this way? 
3)      What comments or concerns, if any, do you have about the concept
and the term "communities of practice" as it might be used to describe
our online interactions? 
For a quick overview on CoPs: http://www.ewenger.com/theory/index.htm 

I look forward to hearing from you! Please post your reply to the list
no later than Friday, August 29th. 


 
 
 
Marie Cora, Moderator
Assessment Discussion List 
National Institute for Literacy 
Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
Coordinator of Assessment  
Program Planning Resource Collection
National Institute for Literacy 
Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html
 
 
 
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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Thu Sep  4 07:47:08 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 07:47:08 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1385]  On-line courses in assessment
Message-ID: <079a01c90e83$f6e558a0$44fdf444@LITNOW>

Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.  
The following post is from Jane Greiner at ProLiteracy.  Some of you may
be interested in the following opportunities.
Thanks,
Marie Cora
************************************************
ProfessionalStudiesAE.org Offers Three New Courses on Student Assessment

For additional course information and registration, please go to
ProfessionalStudiesAE.org
What Every Teacher Should Know About Assessment 
(September 15 - 29; Webinars at 2 p.m. EST, Sept. 15 & 29) 
Your guide to basic concepts in student assessment - learn how to use
standardized assessments effectively and develop better in-class
assessments.
Documentation: Certificate of Completion will document 6 hours as
completion time. 
Facilitator: Carey Reid, World Education, Inc. 
Course fee: $89 per participant 
The following two courses help you apply what you learn in "What Every
Teacher Should Know About Assessment" to your classroom. 
Understanding and Using Published Assessments with Adult Learners 
(October 6 - 27; Webinars at 2 p.m. EST, Oct. 7 & 27) 
Published tests - standardized and non-standardized - are fixtures in
adult basic education, but we rarely give much thought about their
design, their intent, or their strengths and limitations. In this
course, you will explore the main types of published reading assessments
in use in ABE, the advantages and disadvantages of reading tests, and
how the NRS uses the results of standardized testing.  
Prerequisite: What Every Teacher Should Know About Assessment or
equivalent experience 
Documentation: Certificate of Completion will document 12 hours as
completion time. 
Facilitator: Carey Reid, World Education, Inc. 
Course fee: $179 per participant 
Assessments Developed by Teachers and Students 
(Nov. 10 - Dec. 12; Webinars at 2 p.m. EST, Nov. 10 & Dec. 8) 
Expand your assessment toolkit! Learn about tools to check day-to-day
student progress, dynamic forms of assessment, and how to involve your
students in assessment design. You'll learn how assessments can guide
and inform instruction by focusing on learning objectives, assessment
design, and lesson activities. And you'll be able to use rubrics and
other tools to share assessment criteria and expectations with students.

Prerequisite: What Every Teacher Should Know About Assessment or
equivalent experience 
Documentation: Certificate of Completion will document 12 hours as
completion time. 
Facilitator: Carey Reid, World Education, Inc. 
Course fee: $179 per participant 
  
These courses combine top-quality content on student assessment in adult
education and literacy with an easy-to-use online format. In these
courses you'll explore assessment concepts and strategies in-depth
through online activities, readings, and discussion boards, all with an
expert facilitator and adult education colleagues across the country. 
REGISTRATION INFORMATION
Register online at  <http://www.ProfessionalStudiesAE.org>
www.ProfessionalStudiesAE.org. 
Group registrations, please call (315) 422-9121 ext. 367. 
Questions? Call 315-422-9121 ext. 283, or e-mail prodev at proliteracy.org 
  
MEMBERSHIP DISCOUNT 
ProLiteracy members receive a 15% discount on all professional
development courses! For more information, visit 
www.proliteracy.org/proliteracy_america/membership 
  
GROUP DISCOUNT 
Group discounts are available for organizations registering 5 or more
course participants. Please call 315-422-9121, ext. 283, or e-mail
prodev at proliteracy.org for more information
  
 
Marie Cora, Moderator
Assessment Discussion List 
National Institute for Literacy 
Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
Coordinator of Assessment  
Program Planning Resource Collection
National Institute for Literacy 
Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html
 
 
 
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From mariecora at gmail.com  Mon Sep  8 09:49:26 2008
From: mariecora at gmail.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 09:49:26 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1386]  Seeking your discussion topic ideas
Message-ID: <456aed460809080649u64b72224k2598989a5d96b93a@mail.gmail.com>

Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.  I hope this email finds
you well.



Happy International Literacy Day!!



I want to welcome new subscribers who have signed on in the past couple of
months ? we now have a total of 715 subscribers on this List.



To start off September, I want to ask you what types of topics that you
would like to see us discuss here on the Assessment List.  As always, I will
organize some discussions with special guests, but I would like to gather
your thoughts and requests on discussion topics as well.



So please send your ideas to either the List, or to me personally, if you
prefer that.  I will put together a list of the requested topics and post
them for everyone, and we will go from there!



Thanks so much ? I'm looking forward to reading what is on your minds, and
I'm also looking forward to another interesting year of discussion on
assessment topics in Adult Education.



Marie







Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List

National Institute for Literacy

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment



Coordinator of Assessment

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html
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From S.Oconnor at BrooklynPublicLibrary.org  Mon Sep  8 10:07:25 2008
From: S.Oconnor at BrooklynPublicLibrary.org (O'Connor, Susan)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 10:07:25 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1387] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
References: <456aed460809080649u64b72224k2598989a5d96b93a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D0E4EB4CC6426F46B9D9E6450C11CB9A022D1C2E@bplwired3.BPL-CENTRAL.local>

Good Morning:
 
Young Adult Literacy-we are embarking on running two classes for young adults ages 16-24 who read below a 6th grade reading level.  So techniques and assessments for this special group-pre GED level.
 
Susan K. O'Connor
Director, Literacy Program
Brooklyn Public Library
431 6th Ave.
Brooklyn, New York 11215
(718) 832-3560 x 5   (718) 832-9032 fax   (917) 848-2176 Cell
 
 
A library must reflect what is best in a community and reach out  to all people. If citizens are to safeguard civil liberties, elect wise officials, make sense of the news and negotiate public policy with other citizens in an ever more diverse society-libraries must be strong.

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
Sent: Mon 9/8/2008 9:49 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1386] Seeking your discussion topic ideas



Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.  I hope this email finds you well.

 

Happy International Literacy Day!!

 

I want to welcome new subscribers who have signed on in the past couple of months we now have a total of 715 subscribers on this List.

 

To start off September, I want to ask you what types of topics that you would like to see us discuss here on the Assessment List.  As always, I will organize some discussions with special guests, but I would like to gather your thoughts and requests on discussion topics as well.  

 

So please send your ideas to either the List, or to me personally, if you prefer that.  I will put together a list of the requested topics and post them for everyone, and we will go from there!

 

Thanks so much I'm looking forward to reading what is on your minds, and I'm also looking forward to another interesting year of discussion on assessment topics in Adult Education.

 

Marie

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:  http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From sgray at westgatech.edu  Mon Sep  8 10:34:59 2008
From: sgray at westgatech.edu (Gray, Sherry M.)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 10:34:59 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1388] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
In-Reply-To: <456aed460809080649u64b72224k2598989a5d96b93a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <456aed460809080649u64b72224k2598989a5d96b93a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0670F8A63655DC48BCC9058B3836774A1560E4165D@email.westgatech.edu>

Thanks!!  Have enjoyed this link so much!!!

Sherry M. Gray
Adult Education Instructor
West Georgia Technical College
Meriwether Workforce Building
17529 Roosevelt Highway
Greenville, GA  30222
(706) 672-1110
FAX (706) 672-1110 (call first for machine to be turned on)
WGTC inhouse ext. 3554
sgray at westgatech.edu

________________________________
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:49 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1386] Seeking your discussion topic ideas

Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.  I hope this email finds you well.

Happy International Literacy Day!!

I want to welcome new subscribers who have signed on in the past couple of months - we now have a total of 715 subscribers on this List.

To start off September, I want to ask you what types of topics that you would like to see us discuss here on the Assessment List.  As always, I will organize some discussions with special guests, but I would like to gather your thoughts and requests on discussion topics as well.

So please send your ideas to either the List, or to me personally, if you prefer that.  I will put together a list of the requested topics and post them for everyone, and we will go from there!

Thanks so much - I'm looking forward to reading what is on your minds, and I'm also looking forward to another interesting year of discussion on assessment topics in Adult Education.

Marie



Marie Cora, Moderator
Assessment Discussion List
National Institute for Literacy
Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com<mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

Coordinator of Assessment
Program Planning Resource Collection
National Institute for Literacy
Visit at:  http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html



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From forrest at crosslink.net  Mon Sep  8 11:24:24 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 11:24:24 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1389] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
In-Reply-To: <456aed460809080649u64b72224k2598989a5d96b93a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <456aed460809080649u64b72224k2598989a5d96b93a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000501c911c6$fad06d10$f0714730$@net>

Marie,

 

I'd like to see a discussion of how often math is taught in ESL, what math
is taught, and how math skills are assessed.

 

And I hope we WILL meet some day!

 

Forrest

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:49 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1386] Seeking your discussion topic ideas

 

Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.  I hope this email finds
you well.

 

Happy International Literacy Day!!

 

I want to welcome new subscribers who have signed on in the past couple of
months - we now have a total of 715 subscribers on this List.

 

To start off September, I want to ask you what types of topics that you
would like to see us discuss here on the Assessment List.  As always, I will
organize some discussions with special guests, but I would like to gather
your thoughts and requests on discussion topics as well.  

 

So please send your ideas to either the List, or to me personally, if you
prefer that.  I will put together a list of the requested topics and post
them for everyone, and we will go from there!

 

Thanks so much - I'm looking forward to reading what is on your minds, and
I'm also looking forward to another interesting year of discussion on
assessment topics in Adult Education.

 

Marie

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From korber at centerforliteracy.org  Mon Sep  8 11:44:39 2008
From: korber at centerforliteracy.org (Stephanie Korber)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 11:44:39 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1390] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
Message-ID: <7375733BB3CB8E438B091C915DB00ADF4D19BA@cflexchange.centerforliteracy.org>

Good Morning!  We run multiple similar programs for the same age group
with the same literacy levels here in Philadelphia.  We find that
assessment of reading skills below a sixth grade level is extremely
important in order to provide instruction based on the needs of the
individual, as some will need intensive instruction in the foundational
reading skills that might not be accurately assessed using the TABE
(though we use the TABE for placement and grade level gain increase).
For diagnostic purposes we use the Woodcock Johnson Diagnostic Reading
Battery.  It is a time intensive test (one-on-one administration taking
just under 2 hours per student) and you must have the appropriate
qualifications to order and administer it, but we've found that it
provides our instructors with invaluable information about the specific
needs of each learner including their silent reading comprehension vs.
oral reading comprehension, ability to decode, rate of fluency, reading
vocabulary vs. oral vocabulary, etc.  It takes about the same time to
administer as a qualitative reading inventory (QRI).  
 
Our teachers use a broad range of materials and strategies for
instruction.  In all fairness, I must tell you that we hire certified
reading specialists to work with this population.  They have been
trained to address the needs of this target population so they come with
a repertoire of strategies and ideas for materials.  I can send you a
list of things we commonly use if you'll send me your email address.
They include the Bluford series of young adult fiction (low readability,
high interest), Wild Side Series, News for You (New Readers Press), and
more.  Also, I teach an online course through ProLiteracy Worldwide that
addressing strategies and materials for young adults.  The next offering
will be in October, if you are interested.
 
Best,
Stephanie
 
Stephanie Korber
Director of Youth Education
Center for Literacy, Inc.
636 S. 48th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19143
215 474 1235 ext. 270 & 219
korber at centerforliteracy.org
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of O'Connor, Susan
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 10:07 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: RE: [Assessment 1386] Seeking your discussion topic ideas
 
Good Morning:
 
Young Adult Literacy-we are embarking on running two classes for young
adults ages 16-24 who read below a 6th grade reading level.  So
techniques and assessments for this special group-pre GED level.
 
Susan K. O'Connor
Director, Literacy Program
Brooklyn Public Library
431 6th Ave.
Brooklyn, New York 11215
(718) 832-3560 x 5   (718) 832-9032 fax   (917) 848-2176 Cell
 
 
A library must reflect what is best in a community and reach out  to all
people. If citizens are to safeguard civil liberties, elect wise
officials, make sense of the news and negotiate public policy with other
citizens in an ever more diverse society-libraries must be strong.
 
________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
Sent: Mon 9/8/2008 9:49 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1386] Seeking your discussion topic ideas
Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.  I hope this email
finds you well.
 
Happy International Literacy Day!!
 
I want to welcome new subscribers who have signed on in the past couple
of months we now have a total of 715 subscribers on this List.
 
To start off September, I want to ask you what types of topics that you
would like to see us discuss here on the Assessment List.  As always, I
will organize some discussions with special guests, but I would like to
gather your thoughts and requests on discussion topics as well.  
 
So please send your ideas to either the List, or to me personally, if
you prefer that.  I will put together a list of the requested topics and
post them for everyone, and we will go from there!
 
Thanks so much I'm looking forward to reading what is on your minds, and
I'm also looking forward to another interesting year of discussion on
assessment topics in Adult Education.
 
Marie
 
 
 
Marie Cora, Moderator
Assessment Discussion List 
National Institute for Literacy 
Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
Coordinator of Assessment  
Program Planning Resource Collection
National Institute for Literacy 
Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html
 
 
 
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From cjones at alclv.org  Mon Sep  8 12:19:10 2008
From: cjones at alclv.org (Carol Jones)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 12:19:10 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1391] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
In-Reply-To: <456aed460809080649u64b72224k2598989a5d96b93a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000025559054@post2.rnci.com>

Topic suggestion-Transition of ESL students to GED studies, post-secondary
education and/or job training.

 

Carol T. Jones, Ph.D.

Executive Director

Adult Literacy Center of the Lehigh Valley

801 Hamilton Street, Suite 201

Allentown, PA 18101

Phone:  610-435-0680, ext. 114

Fax: 610-435-5134

E-Mail: cjones at alclv.org

 <http://www.alclv.org/> www.alclv.org

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:49 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1386] Seeking your discussion topic ideas

 

Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.  I hope this email finds
you well.

 

Happy International Literacy Day!!

 

I want to welcome new subscribers who have signed on in the past couple of
months - we now have a total of 715 subscribers on this List.

 

To start off September, I want to ask you what types of topics that you
would like to see us discuss here on the Assessment List.  As always, I will
organize some discussions with special guests, but I would like to gather
your thoughts and requests on discussion topics as well.  

 

So please send your ideas to either the List, or to me personally, if you
prefer that.  I will put together a list of the requested topics and post
them for everyone, and we will go from there!

 

Thanks so much - I'm looking forward to reading what is on your minds, and
I'm also looking forward to another interesting year of discussion on
assessment topics in Adult Education.

 

Marie

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From atyskiewicz at crec.org  Mon Sep  8 13:05:47 2008
From: atyskiewicz at crec.org (Tyskiewicz, Andy)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 13:05:47 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1392] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
In-Reply-To: <000501c911c6$fad06d10$f0714730$@net>
References: <456aed460809080649u64b72224k2598989a5d96b93a@mail.gmail.com>
	<000501c911c6$fad06d10$f0714730$@net>
Message-ID: <2E4115D033189841AF7BAF1768828B060165CEE9@crecmail.crec.org>

How about thoughts on what data elements would really help programs grow
and provide insights into success.  A Tyskiewicz, CT

 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 11:24 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1389] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas

 

Marie,

 

I'd like to see a discussion of how often math is taught in ESL, what
math is taught, and how math skills are assessed.

 

And I hope we WILL meet some day!

 

Forrest

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:49 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1386] Seeking your discussion topic ideas

 

Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.  I hope this email
finds you well.

 

Happy International Literacy Day!!

 

I want to welcome new subscribers who have signed on in the past couple
of months - we now have a total of 715 subscribers on this List.

 

To start off September, I want to ask you what types of topics that you
would like to see us discuss here on the Assessment List.  As always, I
will organize some discussions with special guests, but I would like to
gather your thoughts and requests on discussion topics as well.  

 

So please send your ideas to either the List, or to me personally, if
you prefer that.  I will put together a list of the requested topics and
post them for everyone, and we will go from there!

 

Thanks so much - I'm looking forward to reading what is on your minds,
and I'm also looking forward to another interesting year of discussion
on assessment topics in Adult Education.

 

Marie

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 


    The documents accompanying this fax or e-mail transmission, including any attachments, are for the sole use of the intended recipients and MAY contain confidential health or other information that is legally privileged.  The authorized recipient of this information is prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party unless required to do so by law or regulation and is required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled.

If you are NOT the intended recipient you are hereby notified that ANY disclosure, copying, distribution or action taken in reliance on the contents of these documents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information via facsimile in error, please notify the sender immediately and arrange for the return or destruction of these documents. If information is received via e-mail and you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by e-mail immediately and delete/destroy both the original and the reply e-mail message.



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From DMiller at sccd.ctc.edu  Mon Sep  8 13:23:23 2008
From: DMiller at sccd.ctc.edu (Miller-Parker, Donna)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 10:23:23 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1393] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
References: <auto-000025559054@post2.rnci.com>
Message-ID: <0C988598E761184F93D5E740DF3D3AA603EC751D@SCCDMAIL.SCCD.CTC.EDU>

I would second that suggestion as a topic!

 

Donna Miller-Parker, Dean for Basic & Transitional Studies

South Seattle Community College

6000 16th Ave. SW

Seattle, WA  98106-1499

(206) 768-6869

dmiller at sccd.ctc.edu
www.southseattle.edu

 

 

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Carol Jones
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:19 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1391] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas

 

Topic suggestion-Transition of ESL students to GED studies,
post-secondary education and/or job training.

 

Carol T. Jones, Ph.D.

Executive Director

Adult Literacy Center of the Lehigh Valley

801 Hamilton Street, Suite 201

Allentown, PA 18101

Phone:  610-435-0680, ext. 114

Fax: 610-435-5134

E-Mail: cjones at alclv.org

www.alclv.org <http://www.alclv.org/> 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:49 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1386] Seeking your discussion topic ideas

 

Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.  I hope this email
finds you well.

 

Happy International Literacy Day!!

 

I want to welcome new subscribers who have signed on in the past couple
of months - we now have a total of 715 subscribers on this List.

 

To start off September, I want to ask you what types of topics that you
would like to see us discuss here on the Assessment List.  As always, I
will organize some discussions with special guests, but I would like to
gather your thoughts and requests on discussion topics as well.  

 

So please send your ideas to either the List, or to me personally, if
you prefer that.  I will put together a list of the requested topics and
post them for everyone, and we will go from there!

 

Thanks so much - I'm looking forward to reading what is on your minds,
and I'm also looking forward to another interesting year of discussion
on assessment topics in Adult Education.

 

Marie

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From mtate at sbctc.edu  Mon Sep  8 13:28:54 2008
From: mtate at sbctc.edu (Michael Tate)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 10:28:54 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1394] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
In-Reply-To: <456aed460809080649u64b72224k2598989a5d96b93a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <456aed460809080649u64b72224k2598989a5d96b93a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0CA6C79FCB4AC642A77B76C17A4316EE03DC264D@exch-1.sbctc2.local>

I'd like a discussion on what assessments may be available for
meta-cognitive/critical thinking skills/higher-order skills, or how to
develop assessment tools for these skills.

 

Michael Tate

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 6:49 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1386] Seeking your discussion topic ideas

 

Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.  I hope this email
finds you well.

 

Happy International Literacy Day!!

 

I want to welcome new subscribers who have signed on in the past couple
of months we now have a total of 715 subscribers on this List.

 

To start off September, I want to ask you what types of topics that you
would like to see us discuss here on the Assessment List.  As always, I
will organize some discussions with special guests, but I would like to
gather your thoughts and requests on discussion topics as well.  

 

So please send your ideas to either the List, or to me personally, if
you prefer that.  I will put together a list of the requested topics and
post them for everyone, and we will go from there!

 

Thanks so much I'm looking forward to reading what is on your minds, and
I'm also looking forward to another interesting year of discussion on
assessment topics in Adult Education.

 

Marie

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From mhefner at cccti.edu  Mon Sep  8 13:48:52 2008
From: mhefner at cccti.edu (Melinda Hefner)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 13:48:52 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1395]   Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
In-Reply-To: <0C988598E761184F93D5E740DF3D3AA603EC751D@SCCDMAIL.SCCD.CTC.EDU>
References: <auto-000025559054@post2.rnci.com>
	<0C988598E761184F93D5E740DF3D3AA603EC751D@SCCDMAIL.SCCD.CTC.EDU>
Message-ID: <48C52D44.1F1A.005D.0@cccti.edu>

I'll add my vote to this topic, too.
 
 
 
Melinda M. Hefner
Director, Literacy Support Services

Basic Skills Department
Caldwell Community College and Technical Institute
2855 Hickory Blvd.
Hudson, North Carolina 28638
Office: 828.726.2245
FAX:    828.726.2266


>>> On 9/8/2008 at 1:23 pm, in message
<0C988598E761184F93D5E740DF3D3AA603EC751D at SCCDMAIL.SCCD.CTC.EDU>,
"Miller-Parker, Donna" <DMiller at sccd.ctc.edu> wrote:

I would second that suggestion as a topic!
 
Donna Miller-Parker, Dean for Basic & Transitional Studies
South Seattle Community College
6000 16th Ave. SW
Seattle, WA  98106-1499
(206) 768-6869
dmiller at sccd.ctc.edu
www.southseattle.edu
 
 
 

From:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Carol Jones
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:19 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1391] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas

 
Topic suggestion?Transition of ESL students to GED studies,
post-secondary education and/or job training.
 

Carol T. Jones, Ph.D.
Executive Director
Adult Literacy Center of the Lehigh Valley
801 Hamilton Street, Suite 201
Allentown, PA 18101
Phone:  610-435-0680, ext. 114
Fax: 610-435-5134
E-Mail: cjones at alclv.org
www.alclv.org

From:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:49 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1386] Seeking your discussion topic ideas

 

Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.  I hope this email
finds you well.
 
Happy International Literacy Day!!
 
I want to welcome new subscribers who have signed on in the past couple
of months ? we now have a total of 715 subscribers on this List.
 
To start off September, I want to ask you what types of topics that you
would like to see us discuss here on the Assessment List.  As always, I
will organize some discussions with special guests, but I would like to
gather your thoughts and requests on discussion topics as well.  
 
So please send your ideas to either the List, or to me personally, if
you prefer that.  I will put together a list of the requested topics and
post them for everyone, and we will go from there!
 
Thanks so much ? I'm looking forward to reading what is on your minds,
and I'm also looking forward to another interesting year of discussion
on assessment topics in Adult Education.
 
Marie
 
 
 
Marie Cora, Moderator
Assessment Discussion List 
National Institute for Literacy 
Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
Coordinator of Assessment  
Program Planning Resource Collection
National Institute for Literacy 
Visit at: 
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html
 
 
 
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From crandall at umbc.edu  Mon Sep  8 14:28:41 2008
From: crandall at umbc.edu (Jodi Crandall)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 14:28:41 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1396] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
In-Reply-To: <48C52D44.1F1A.005D.0@cccti.edu>
References: <auto-000025559054@post2.rnci.com>
	<0C988598E761184F93D5E740DF3D3AA603EC751D@SCCDMAIL.SCCD.CTC.EDU>
	<48C52D44.1F1A.005D.0@cccti.edu>
Message-ID: <584EA1FE-6B55-4ECA-A98A-B5D99AF19928@umbc.edu>

I would like to see this topic as well.


Jodi Crandall

JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
Professor of TESOL
Director, Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
University of Maryland Baltimore County
1000 Hilltop Circle
Baltimore, MD 21250
tel:  410-455-2313
fax: 410-455-8947
eml: crandall at umbc.edu


On Sep 8, 2008, at 1:48 PM, Melinda Hefner wrote:

> I'll add my vote to this topic, too.
>
>
>
> Melinda M. Hefner
> Director, Literacy Support Services
>
> Basic Skills Department
> Caldwell Community College and Technical Institute
> 2855 Hickory Blvd.
> Hudson, North Carolina 28638
> Office: 828.726.2245
> FAX:    828.726.2266
>
>
> >>> On 9/8/2008 at 1:23 pm, in message  
> <0C988598E761184F93D5E740DF3D3AA603EC751D at SCCDMAIL.SCCD.CTC.EDU>,  
> "Miller-Parker, Donna" <DMiller at sccd.ctc.edu> wrote:
> I would second that suggestion as a topic!
>
>
>
> Donna Miller-Parker, Dean for Basic & Transitional Studies
>
> South Seattle Community College
>
> 6000 16th Ave. SW
>
> Seattle, WA  98106-1499
>
> (206) 768-6869
>
> dmiller at sccd.ctc.edu
> www.southseattle.edu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Carol Jones
> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:19 AM
> To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
> Subject: [Assessment 1391] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
>
>
>
> Topic suggestion?Transition of ESL students to GED studies, post- 
> secondary education and/or job training.
>
>
>
> Carol T. Jones, Ph.D.
>
> Executive Director
>
> Adult Literacy Center of the Lehigh Valley
>
> 801 Hamilton Street, Suite 201
>
> Allentown, PA 18101
>
> Phone:  610-435-0680, ext. 114
>
> Fax: 610-435-5134
>
> E-Mail: cjones at alclv.org
>
> www.alclv.org
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Marie Cora
> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:49 AM
> To: assessment at nifl.gov
> Subject: [Assessment 1386] Seeking your discussion topic ideas
>
>
>
> Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.  I hope this email  
> finds you well.
>
>
>
> Happy International Literacy Day!!
>
>
>
> I want to welcome new subscribers who have signed on in the past  
> couple of months ? we now have a total of 715 subscribers on this  
> List.
>
>
>
> To start off September, I want to ask you what types of topics that  
> you would like to see us discuss here on the Assessment List.  As  
> always, I will organize some discussions with special guests, but I  
> would like to gather your thoughts and requests on discussion  
> topics as well.
>
>
>
> So please send your ideas to either the List, or to me personally,  
> if you prefer that.  I will put together a list of the requested  
> topics and post them for everyone, and we will go from there!
>
>
>
> Thanks so much ? I'm looking forward to reading what is on your  
> minds, and I'm also looking forward to another interesting year of  
> discussion on assessment topics in Adult Education.
>
>
>
> Marie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Marie Cora, Moderator
>
> Assessment Discussion List
>
> National Institute for Literacy
>
> Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>
> Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>
>
> Coordinator of Assessment
>
> Program Planning Resource Collection
>
> National Institute for Literacy
>
> Visit at:  http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/ 
> resource_collections.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu


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From rhughes at seattleu.edu  Mon Sep  8 14:30:35 2008
From: rhughes at seattleu.edu (Hughes, Robert)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 11:30:35 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1397] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
References: <456aed460809080649u64b72224k2598989a5d96b93a@mail.gmail.com>
	<0CA6C79FCB4AC642A77B76C17A4316EE03DC264D@exch-1.sbctc2.local>
Message-ID: <52B542A77C916749A60742872653EE0B062C3DAD@OITEX2.seattleu.edu>

I'd like to see more discussion of instructional assessments.  Much of the focus in recent years has been on program assessments that allow programs to determine learners' placement and progress.  Those more broad measures tell us whether a person's skill increases, for example, in reading or computational skills.  However, those more broad assessments don't provide assessments of skills components (for example in reading, the measurement of decoding or fluency) that provide a roadmap for instructing students.  I find that while teachers and programs are gaining skills with program assessment, there's a significant need to train teachers in the kinds of instructional assessments they need for diagnosing and addressing learning needs.
 
Bob Hughes, Ed.D.
Associate Professor of Adult Education
Seattle University
901 12th Ave
PO Box 222000, Seattle WA 98122

Ph:  206-296-6168
E-mail:  rhughes at seattleu.edu 
 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 6:49 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1386] Seeking your discussion topic ideas

 

Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.  I hope this email finds you well.

 

Happy International Literacy Day!!

 

I want to welcome new subscribers who have signed on in the past couple of months we now have a total of 715 subscribers on this List.

 

To start off September, I want to ask you what types of topics that you would like to see us discuss here on the Assessment List.  As always, I will organize some discussions with special guests, but I would like to gather your thoughts and requests on discussion topics as well.  

 

So please send your ideas to either the List, or to me personally, if you prefer that.  I will put together a list of the requested topics and post them for everyone, and we will go from there!

 

Thanks so much I'm looking forward to reading what is on your minds, and I'm also looking forward to another interesting year of discussion on assessment topics in Adult Education.

 

Marie

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:  http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From swoods at sbctc.edu  Mon Sep  8 15:05:43 2008
From: swoods at sbctc.edu (Shash Woods)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 12:05:43 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1398] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
References: <456aed460809080649u64b72224k2598989a5d96b93a@mail.gmail.com>
	<0CA6C79FCB4AC642A77B76C17A4316EE03DC264D@exch-1.sbctc2.local>
Message-ID: <0CA6C79FCB4AC642A77B76C17A4316EE012C4939@exch-1.sbctc2.local>

I second both Donna and Michael, and would add that I'd like to know if there are assessment methods to measure application and transfer skills.

Shash Woods 

Professional Development Coordinator 

NW Region 

ABE/SBCTC 

(206) 276-3745 

swoods at sbctc.edu 



-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Michael Tate
Sent: Mon 9/8/2008 10:28 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1394] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
 
I'd like a discussion on what assessments may be available for
meta-cognitive/critical thinking skills/higher-order skills, or how to
develop assessment tools for these skills.

 

Michael Tate

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 6:49 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1386] Seeking your discussion topic ideas

 

Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.  I hope this email
finds you well.

 

Happy International Literacy Day!!

 

I want to welcome new subscribers who have signed on in the past couple
of months we now have a total of 715 subscribers on this List.

 

To start off September, I want to ask you what types of topics that you
would like to see us discuss here on the Assessment List.  As always, I
will organize some discussions with special guests, but I would like to
gather your thoughts and requests on discussion topics as well.  

 

So please send your ideas to either the List, or to me personally, if
you prefer that.  I will put together a list of the requested topics and
post them for everyone, and we will go from there!

 

Thanks so much I'm looking forward to reading what is on your minds, and
I'm also looking forward to another interesting year of discussion on
assessment topics in Adult Education.

 

Marie

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 


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From john.benseman at criticalinsight.co.nz  Mon Sep  8 16:33:18 2008
From: john.benseman at criticalinsight.co.nz (John Benseman)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 08:33:18 +1200
Subject: [Assessment 1399] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
In-Reply-To: <456aed460809080649u64b72224k2598989a5d96b93a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <456aed460809080649u64b72224k2598989a5d96b93a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007501c911f2$20ea3eb0$0d00a8c0@critical1>

Marie - I would be interested in discussing the assessment of confidence. It
is the number one outcome that learners report in most studies, it is sort
of acknowledged (but then quickly dismissed as a 'soft' outcome) by policy
and funding people and, I believe, underpins many of the other outcomes
learners achieve - for example, I'm sure that many reading assessments
increase at least in part because learners gain the confidence to use skills
they already have.

 

So, confidence: how important is it, how do we measure it and how can we use
the findings in a way that policy and funding people will listen to?

 

Regards, John

 

John Benseman

*   john.benseman at criticalinsight.co.nz

*   641 9 627 1882  Cell  027 454 0683

* 52a Bolton St, Blockhouse Bay, Auckland 0600, NZ

Skype: boltonstbunch

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Tuesday, 9 September 2008 1:49 a.m.
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1386] Seeking your discussion topic ideas

 

Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.  I hope this email finds
you well.

 

Happy International Literacy Day!!

 

I want to welcome new subscribers who have signed on in the past couple of
months - we now have a total of 715 subscribers on this List.

 

To start off September, I want to ask you what types of topics that you
would like to see us discuss here on the Assessment List.  As always, I will
organize some discussions with special guests, but I would like to gather
your thoughts and requests on discussion topics as well.  

 

So please send your ideas to either the List, or to me personally, if you
prefer that.  I will put together a list of the requested topics and post
them for everyone, and we will go from there!

 

Thanks so much - I'm looking forward to reading what is on your minds, and
I'm also looking forward to another interesting year of discussion on
assessment topics in Adult Education.

 

Marie

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net  Mon Sep  8 17:25:04 2008
From: bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net (Bonnie Odiorne)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 14:25:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Assessment 1400] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
Message-ID: <869144.19025.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Stephen Brookfield has a whole website http://stephenbrookfield.com/papers.html?on ways to assess critical thinking in the classroom, in a situational rather than a standardized context. He proposes several scenarios to do so.
Bonnie Odiorne, PhD Director, Writing Center, Director; Professor 
----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Tate <mtate at sbctc.edu>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2008 1:28:54 PM
Subject: [Assessment 1394] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas


I?d like a discussion on what assessments may be available for meta-cognitive/critical thinking skills/higher-order skills, or how to develop assessment tools for these skills.
?
Michael Tate
?
From:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 6:49 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1386] Seeking your discussion topic ideas
?
Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.? I hope this email finds you well.
?
Happy International Literacy Day!!
?
I want to welcome new subscribers who have signed on in the past couple of months we now have a total of 715 subscribers on this List.
?
To start off September, I want to ask you what types of topics that you would like to see us discuss here on the Assessment List.? As always, I will organize some discussions with special guests, but I would like to gather your thoughts and requests on discussion topics as well.? 
?
So please send your ideas to either the List, or to me personally, if you prefer that.? I will put together a list of the requested topics and post them for everyone, and we will go from there!
?
Thanks so much I'm looking forward to reading what is on your minds, and I'm also looking forward to another interesting year of discussion on assessment topics in Adult Education.
?
Marie
?
?
?
Marie Cora, Moderator
Assessment Discussion List 
National Institute for Literacy 
Email me at:? marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
Subscribe at:? http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
?
Coordinator of Assessment? 
Program Planning Resource Collection
National Institute for Literacy 
Visit at:? http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html
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From copsey at allencc.edu  Mon Sep  8 17:35:31 2008
From: copsey at allencc.edu (Vivian Copsey)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 16:35:31 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1401] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
In-Reply-To: <584EA1FE-6B55-4ECA-A98A-B5D99AF19928@umbc.edu>
References: <48C52D44.1F1A.005D.0@cccti.edu> <auto-000025559054@post2.rnci.com>
	<0C988598E761184F93D5E740DF3D3AA603EC751D@SCCDMAIL.SCCD.CTC.EDU>
	<48C52D44.1F1A.005D.0@cccti.edu>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20080908163448.031f7e18@allencc.edu>

This is a definite need in our program.


Vivian Copsey
Coordinator Adult Education
Allen Community College
1801 N. Cottonwood
Iola, KS 66749
620.365.5116 x250



At 02:28 PM 9/8/2008 -0400, you wrote:
>I would like to see this topic as well.
>
>
>Jodi Crandall
>
>JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall
>Professor of TESOL
>Director, Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program
>University of Maryland Baltimore County
>1000 Hilltop Circle
>Baltimore, MD 21250
>tel:  410-455-2313
>fax: 410-455-8947
>eml: <mailto:crandall at umbc.edu>crandall at umbc.edu
>
>
>On Sep 8, 2008, at 1:48 PM, Melinda Hefner wrote:
>
>>I'll add my vote to this topic, too.
>>
>>
>>
>>Melinda M. Hefner
>>Director, Literacy Support Services
>>
>>Basic Skills Department
>>Caldwell Community College and Technical Institute
>>2855 Hickory Blvd.
>>Hudson, North Carolina 28638
>>Office: 828.726.2245
>>FAX:    828.726.2266
>>
>>
>> >>> On 9/8/2008 at 1:23 pm, in message 
>> <<mailto:0C988598E761184F93D5E740DF3D3AA603EC751D at SCCDMAIL.SCCD.CTC.EDU>0C988598E761184F93D5E740DF3D3AA603EC751D at SCCDMAIL.SCCD.CTC.EDU>, 
>> "Miller-Parker, Donna" 
>> <<mailto:DMiller at sccd.ctc.edu>DMiller at sccd.ctc.edu> wrote:
>>
>>I would second that suggestion as a topic!
>>
>>
>>
>>Donna Miller-Parker, Dean for Basic & Transitional Studies
>>
>>South Seattle Community College
>>
>>6000 16th Ave. SW
>>
>>Seattle, WA  98106-1499
>>
>>(206) 768-6869
>>
>><mailto:dmiller at sccd.ctc.edu>dmiller at sccd.ctc.edu
>>www.southseattle.edu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
>>[<mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov>mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] 
>>On Behalf Of Carol Jones
>>Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:19 AM
>>To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
>>Subject: [Assessment 1391] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
>>
>>
>>
>>Topic suggestion?Transition of ESL students to GED studies, 
>>post-secondary education and/or job training.
>>
>>
>>
>>Carol T. Jones, Ph.D.
>>
>>Executive Director
>>
>>Adult Literacy Center of the Lehigh Valley
>>
>>801 Hamilton Street, Suite 201
>>
>>Allentown, PA 18101
>>
>>Phone:  610-435-0680, ext. 114
>>
>>Fax: 610-435-5134
>>
>>E-Mail: <mailto:cjones at alclv.org>cjones at alclv.org
>>
>>www.alclv.org
>>
>>----------
>>From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
>>[<mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov>mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] 
>>On Behalf Of Marie Cora
>>Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:49 AM
>>To: <mailto:assessment at nifl.gov>assessment at nifl.gov
>>Subject: [Assessment 1386] Seeking your discussion topic ideas
>>
>>
>>
>>Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.  I hope this email finds 
>>you well.
>>
>>
>>
>>Happy International Literacy Day!!
>>
>>
>>
>>I want to welcome new subscribers who have signed on in the past couple 
>>of months ? we now have a total of 715 subscribers on this List.
>>
>>
>>
>>To start off September, I want to ask you what types of topics that you 
>>would like to see us discuss here on the Assessment List.  As always, I 
>>will organize some discussions with special guests, but I would like to 
>>gather your thoughts and requests on discussion topics as well.
>>
>>
>>
>>So please send your ideas to either the List, or to me personally, if you 
>>prefer that.  I will put together a list of the requested topics and post 
>>them for everyone, and we will go from there!
>>
>>
>>
>>Thanks so much ? I'm looking forward to reading what is on your minds, 
>>and I'm also looking forward to another interesting year of discussion on 
>>assessment topics in Adult Education.
>>
>>
>>
>>Marie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Marie Cora, Moderator
>>
>>Assessment Discussion List
>>
>>National Institute for Literacy
>>
>>Email me 
>>at:  <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>
>>Subscribe 
>>at: 
>><http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>
>>
>>
>>Coordinator of Assessment
>>
>>Program Planning Resource Collection
>>
>>National Institute for Literacy
>>
>>Visit 
>>at: 
>><http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html>http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-------------------------------
>>National Institute for Literacy
>>Assessment mailing list
>><mailto:Assessment at nifl.gov>Assessment at nifl.gov
>>To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
>><http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>Email delivered to <mailto:crandall at umbc.edu>crandall at umbc.edu
>
>
>-------------------------------
>National Institute for Literacy
>Assessment mailing list
>Assessment at nifl.gov
>To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
>http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>Email delivered to copsey at allencc.edu

Vivian Copsey
Coordinator Adult Education
Allen Community College
1801 N. Cottonwood
Iola, KS 66749
620.365.5116 x250

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From KHinson at almanid.com  Mon Sep  8 20:25:55 2008
From: KHinson at almanid.com (Katrina Hinson)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 02:25:55 +0200
Subject: [Assessment 1402] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
In-Reply-To: <456aed460809080649u64b72224k2598989a5d96b93a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <456aed460809080649u64b72224k2598989a5d96b93a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48C58A48.121C.00A0.0@almanid.com>

I like all the suggestions put forward so far. I'd also add assessment
in online environments - assessing online/computer literacy. I teach
adult literacy via a totally online environment for the most part and
assessment in this area is definitely something I'd like to discuss.

Regards,
Katrina Hinson

>>> "Marie Cora" <mariecora at gmail.com> 9/8/2008 9:49 am >>>
Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.  I hope this email
finds
you well.



Happy International Literacy Day!!



I want to welcome new subscribers who have signed on in the past couple
of
months ? we now have a total of 715 subscribers on this List.



To start off September, I want to ask you what types of topics that
you
would like to see us discuss here on the Assessment List.  As always, I
will
organize some discussions with special guests, but I would like to
gather
your thoughts and requests on discussion topics as well.



So please send your ideas to either the List, or to me personally, if
you
prefer that.  I will put together a list of the requested topics and
post
them for everyone, and we will go from there!



Thanks so much ? I'm looking forward to reading what is on your
minds, and
I'm also looking forward to another interesting year of discussion on
assessment topics in Adult Education.



Marie







Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List

National Institute for Literacy

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com 

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment 



Coordinator of Assessment

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

From tmechem at doe.mass.edu  Tue Sep  9 08:45:08 2008
From: tmechem at doe.mass.edu (Mechem, Thompson)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 08:45:08 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1403] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas (TM)
In-Reply-To: <auto-000025559054@post2.rnci.com>
Message-ID: <29CFEE83EDF92741BF0ED3F5D9BC7E87FE6EA7@exchange2.doe.mass.edu>

Carol---
 
To quote Smokey Robinson, I second that emotion: it's the missing link.
 

Tom Mechem 
GED State Chief Examiner 
Department of Elementary & Secondary Education 
Commonwealth of Massachusetts 
781-338-6621 
"GED to Ph.D." 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Carol Jones
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 12:19 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1391] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas



Topic suggestion-Transition of ESL students to GED studies, post-secondary education and/or job training.

 

Carol T. Jones, Ph.D.

Executive Director

Adult Literacy Center of the Lehigh Valley

801 Hamilton Street, Suite 201

Allentown, PA 18101

Phone:  610-435-0680, ext. 114

Fax: 610-435-5134

E-Mail: cjones at alclv.org

 <http://www.alclv.org/> www.alclv.org


  _____  


From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:49 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1386] Seeking your discussion topic ideas

 

Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.  I hope this email finds you well.

 

Happy International Literacy Day!!

 

I want to welcome new subscribers who have signed on in the past couple of months - we now have a total of 715 subscribers on this List.

 

To start off September, I want to ask you what types of topics that you would like to see us discuss here on the Assessment List.  As always, I will organize some discussions with special guests, but I would like to gather your thoughts and requests on discussion topics as well.  

 

So please send your ideas to either the List, or to me personally, if you prefer that.  I will put together a list of the requested topics and post them for everyone, and we will go from there!

 

Thanks so much - I'm looking forward to reading what is on your minds, and I'm also looking forward to another interesting year of discussion on assessment topics in Adult Education.

 

Marie

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:  http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From wfagan at mun.ca  Tue Sep  9 08:51:38 2008
From: wfagan at mun.ca (Will Fagan)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 10:21:38 -0230
Subject: [Assessment 1404] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
In-Reply-To: <869144.19025.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <869144.19025.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <84C123F4-E63F-42DB-B42D-1E9CD6E8A6DD@mun.ca>

Earlier someone suggested information on assessing confidence. I  
agree we need to look at these parameters of learning.

Also I would suggest a discussion on how we measure fluency. We know  
what this is in separating the novice from the expert, whether in  
cooking, carpentry, sewing, providing medical service, etc.  I assume  
our goal in learning situations is to produce or enable  experts. How  
do we measure fluency as part of this expertise?

Will

From mhefner at cccti.edu  Tue Sep  9 10:29:47 2008
From: mhefner at cccti.edu (Melinda Hefner)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 10:29:47 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1405]   Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
In-Reply-To: <48C58A48.121C.00A0.0@almanid.com>
References: <456aed460809080649u64b72224k2598989a5d96b93a@mail.gmail.com>
	<48C58A48.121C.00A0.0@almanid.com>
Message-ID: <48C6501A.1F1A.005D.0@cccti.edu>

Katrina, this may be off topic but I'd love to hear about your
experiences teaching literacy online as I'm now teaching an online
technology skills course for Adult High School students.  If not
appropriate to post here, can you please e-mail me at mhefner at cccti.edu
?
 
Thanks!!!

>>> On 9/8/2008 at 8:25 pm, in message
<48C58A48.121C.00A0.0 at almanid.com>, "Katrina Hinson"
<KHinson at almanid.com> wrote:
I like all the suggestions put forward so far. I'd also add assessment
in online environments - assessing online/computer literacy. I teach
adult literacy via a totally online environment for the most part and
assessment in this area is definitely something I'd like to discuss.

Regards,
Katrina Hinson

>>> "Marie Cora" <mariecora at gmail.com> 9/8/2008 9:49 am >>>
Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.  I hope this email
finds
you well.



Happy International Literacy Day!!



I want to welcome new subscribers who have signed on in the past
couple
of
months ? we now have a total of 715 subscribers on this List.



To start off September, I want to ask you what types of topics that
you
would like to see us discuss here on the Assessment List.  As always,
I
will
organize some discussions with special guests, but I would like to
gather
your thoughts and requests on discussion topics as well.



So please send your ideas to either the List, or to me personally, if
you
prefer that.  I will put together a list of the requested topics and
post
them for everyone, and we will go from there!



Thanks so much ? I'm looking forward to reading what is on your
minds, and
I'm also looking forward to another interesting year of discussion on
assessment topics in Adult Education.



Marie







Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List

National Institute for Literacy

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com 

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment 



Coordinator of Assessment

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to mhefner at cccti.edu
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From adrienne.davis at hclibrary.org  Tue Sep  9 10:35:11 2008
From: adrienne.davis at hclibrary.org (Adrienne Davis)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 10:35:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Assessment 1406] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
In-Reply-To: <7375733BB3CB8E438B091C915DB00ADF4D19BA@cflexchange.centerforliteracy.org>
Message-ID: <22388217.6288.1220970911998.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>

"
Hi Stephanie,

I, for one, would be interested in your list of materials for low literacy adults.  I'm especially interested in low readability, high interest materials for an adult population, such as the 30 - 50 year old set.

Many thanks for offering,

Adrienne Davis
Intake Assessment Specialist
Project Literacy, Howard County Library
410-313-7900

Building Life Skills Through Literacy. Educate. Enhance. Empower.

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephanie Korber <korber at centerforliteracy.org>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Cc:
Date: Monday, September 8 2008 01:03 PM
Subject: [Assessment 1390] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
CleanCleanDocumentEmailMicrosoftInternetExplorer4Good Morning! We run multiple similar programs for the
same age group with the same literacy levels here in Philadelphia. We find that
assessment of reading skills below a sixth grade level is extremely important
in order to provide instruction based on the needs of the individual, as some
will need intensive instruction in the foundational reading skills that might
not be accurately assessed using the TABE (though we use the TABE for placement
and grade level gain increase).  For
diagnostic purposes we use the Woodcock Johnson Diagnostic Reading Battery.  It is a time intensive test (one-on-one
administration taking just under 2 hours per student) and you must have the
appropriate qualifications to order and administer it, but we?ve found
that it provides our instructors with invaluable information about the specific
needs of each learner including their silent reading comprehension vs. oral
reading comprehension, ability to decode, rate of fluency, reading vocabulary
vs. oral vocabulary, etc. It takes
about the same time to administer as a qualitative reading inventory (QRI). 
 
Our teachers use a broad range of
materials and strategies for instruction. In all fairness, I must tell you that we hire certified reading
specialists to work with this population. They have been trained to address the needs of this target population so
they come with a repertoire of strategies and ideas for materials. I can send you a list of things we
commonly use if you?ll send me your email address. They include the Bluford
series of young adult fiction (low readability, high interest), Wild Side
Series, News for You (New Readers Press), and more.  Also, I teach an online course through ProLiteracy Worldwide that addressing strategies and
materials for young adults. The
next offering will be in October, if you are interested.
 
Best,
Stephanie
 
Stephanie Korber
Director of Youth Education
Center for Literacy, Inc.
636 S. 48th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19143
215 474 1235 ext. 270 & 219
korber at centerforliteracy.org

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of O'Connor, Susan
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008
10:07 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: RE: [Assessment 1386]
Seeking your discussion topic ideas
 
Good
Morning:



Young Adult Literacy-we are
embarking on running two classes for young adults ages 16-24 who read below a
6th grade reading level.  So techniques and assessments for this special
group-pre GED level.




Susan K. O'Connor

Director, Literacy Program

Brooklyn Public Library

431 6th Ave.

Brooklyn, New York 11215

(718) 832-3560 x 5   (718)
832-9032 fax   (917) 848-2176 Cell





A
library must reflect what is best in a community and reach out to all people. If citizens are to
safeguard civil liberties, elect wise officials, make sense of the news and
negotiate public policy with other citizens in an ever more diverse
society-libraries must be strong.



 

From:
assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
Sent: Mon 9/8/2008 9:49 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1386] Seeking
your discussion topic ideas

Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.  I
hope this email finds you well.

Happy International Literacy Day!!

I want to welcome new subscribers who have signed on in the
past couple of months we now have a total of 715 subscribers on this List.

To start off September, I want to ask you what types of
topics that you would like to see us discuss here on the Assessment List. 
As always, I will organize some discussions with special guests, but I would
like to gather your thoughts and requests on discussion topics as well.  

So please send your ideas to either the List, or to me
personally, if you prefer that.  I will put together a list of the
requested topics and post them for everyone, and we will go from there!

Thanks so much I'm looking forward to reading what is on
your minds, and I'm also looking forward to another interesting year of
discussion on assessment topics in Adult Education.

Marie



Marie Cora, Moderator
Assessment Discussion List 
National Institute for Literacy 
Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

Coordinator of Assessment  
Program Planning Resource Collection
National Institute for Literacy 
Visit at:  http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html












-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to adrienne.davis at hclibrary.org
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From teacherwendyq at gmail.com  Tue Sep  9 10:37:50 2008
From: teacherwendyq at gmail.com (Wendy Quinones)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 10:37:50 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1407] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
In-Reply-To: <D0E4EB4CC6426F46B9D9E6450C11CB9A022D1C2E@bplwired3.BPL-CENTRAL.local>
References: <456aed460809080649u64b72224k2598989a5d96b93a@mail.gmail.com>
	<D0E4EB4CC6426F46B9D9E6450C11CB9A022D1C2E@bplwired3.BPL-CENTRAL.local>
Message-ID: <ad2cc1ef0809090737p1df0dd83t84c2b2b0e593b6f@mail.gmail.com>

I also like the suggestions so far, especially Carol's about ESOL
transitions into ABE (at whatever level), Michael's about assessing
metacognition and higher order thinking skills, and Robert's about
instructional assessment.  There was a discussion about "formative
assessment" (usually teacher-made, designed for specific curriculum elements
and non-standardized) on the PD list a while ago, but it was a bit abstract
-- I'd like more of a how-to discussion on that.

Wendy Quinones
Educational consultant
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From southern_76 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  9 12:01:03 2008
From: southern_76 at yahoo.com (Jill Omer)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 09:01:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Assessment 1408] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
Message-ID: <661590.78744.qm@web54502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I am interested in this topic too. 



----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Tate <mtate at sbctc.edu>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2008 1:28:54 PM
Subject: [Assessment 1394] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas


I?d like a discussion on what assessments may be available for meta-cognitive/critical thinking skills/higher-order skills, or how to develop assessment tools for these skills.
?
Michael Tate
?
From:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 6:49 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1386] Seeking your discussion topic ideas
?
Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.? I hope this email finds you well.
?
Happy International Literacy Day!!
?
I want to welcome new subscribers who have signed on in the past couple of months we now have a total of 715 subscribers on this List.
?
To start off September, I want to ask you what types of topics that you would like to see us discuss here on the Assessment List.? As always, I will organize some discussions with special guests, but I would like to gather your thoughts and requests on discussion topics as well.? 
?
So please send your ideas to either the List, or to me personally, if you prefer that.? I will put together a list of the requested topics and post them for everyone, and we will go from there!
?
Thanks so much I'm looking forward to reading what is on your minds, and I'm also looking forward to another interesting year of discussion on assessment topics in Adult Education.
?
Marie
?
?
?
Marie Cora, Moderator
Assessment Discussion List 
National Institute for Literacy 
Email me at:? marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
Subscribe at:? http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
?
Coordinator of Assessment? 
Program Planning Resource Collection
National Institute for Literacy 
Visit at:? http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html


      
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From mtate at sbctc.edu  Tue Sep  9 13:15:24 2008
From: mtate at sbctc.edu (Michael Tate)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 10:15:24 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1409] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
In-Reply-To: <869144.19025.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <869144.19025.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0CA6C79FCB4AC642A77B76C17A4316EE03DC2B07@exch-1.sbctc2.local>

Thanks Bonnie!  I was just looking  at Stephen's Critical Incident Questionnaire.  This 5-question gem could easily be added as a closing activity in most classes to great benefit.  

 

Could Stephen be invited as a guest presenter during some future week when we take up the topic of critical thinking assessment?

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Bonnie Odiorne
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 2:25 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1400] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas

 

Stephen Brookfield has a whole website http://stephenbrookfield.com/papers.html on ways to assess critical thinking in the classroom, in a situational rather than a standardized context. He proposes several scenarios to do so.

Bonnie Odiorne, PhD Director, Writing Center, Director; Professor 

----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Tate <mtate at sbctc.edu>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2008 1:28:54 PM
Subject: [Assessment 1394] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas

I?d like a discussion on what assessments may be available for meta-cognitive/critical thinking skills/higher-order skills, or how to develop assessment tools for these skills.

 

Michael Tate

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 6:49 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1386] Seeking your discussion topic ideas

 

Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.  I hope this email finds you well.

 

Happy International Literacy Day!!

 

I want to welcome new subscribers who have signed on in the past couple of months we now have a total of 715 subscribers on this List.

 

To start off September, I want to ask you what types of topics that you would like to see us discuss here on the Assessment List.  As always, I will organize some discussions with special guests, but I would like to gather your thoughts and requests on discussion topics as well.  

 

So please send your ideas to either the List, or to me personally, if you prefer that.  I will put together a list of the requested topics and post them for everyone, and we will go from there!

 

Thanks so much I'm looking forward to reading what is on your minds, and I'm also looking forward to another interesting year of discussion on assessment topics in Adult Education.

 

Marie

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:  http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From mariecora at gmail.com  Wed Sep 10 09:50:17 2008
From: mariecora at gmail.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 09:50:17 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1410]  Compiled list of discussion topics
Message-ID: <456aed460809100650q679e6b77q78eb4103ec5aeb17@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

Thanks so much for this input!  This is so great!  Ok, looks like I'm going
to be a busy bee organizing these discussions for us.  I've compiled the
suggestions that have come in so far - but this does not mean I've stopped
collecting ideas, so if you have others, don't hesitate to send them to the
List or to me.  They are listed in the order in which they have been posted,
and I have noted where there were multiple votes on topics.

If you have suggestions on resources - both material and person resources -
that you feel would be beneficial for any of the discussions below, will you
please email me this info?  I can then follow up on any resources that we
can include in a discussion.

Thanks!!

Marie


*Discussion List Items for Assessment*



Young Adult Literacy - techniques and assessments for pre GED level (2
votes)



Reply:  Stephanie Korber (Director of Youth Education Center for Literacy,
Inc., Philly) to share materials and strategies used in her program with
this age group



************************



A discussion of how often math is taught in ESL, what math is taught, and
how math skills are assessed.



************************



Transition of ESL students to GED studies, post-secondary education and/or
job training (8 votes); assessment methods to measure application and
transfer skills

 ****************************



What data elements would really help programs grow and provide insights into
success



****************************



A discussion on what assessments may be available for
meta-cognitive/critical thinking skills/higher-order skills, or how to
develop assessment tools for these skills.  (3 votes)



Suggestion:  Stephen Brookfield as a special guest (his website
http://stephenbrookfield.com/papers.html describes ways to assess critical
thinking in the classroom, in a situational rather than a standardized
context)



***********************************



Discussion of instructional assessments as opposed to program assessments,
i.e.:  assessments of skills components (for example in reading, the
measurement of decoding or fluency) that provide a roadmap for instructing
students, and instructional assessments needed for diagnosing and addressing
learning needs (2 votes); practical discussion on how to develop/use
formative assessments



******************************



Assessment of confidence: how important is it, how do we measure it and how
can we use the findings in a way that policy and funding people will listen
to? (2 votes)



***********************



Assessment in online environments - assessing online/computer literacy



***********************



How to measure fluency? How do we measure fluency as part of helping people
gain expertise?
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From teacherwendyq at gmail.com  Wed Sep 10 09:59:41 2008
From: teacherwendyq at gmail.com (Wendy Quinones)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 09:59:41 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1411] Re: Compiled list of discussion topics
In-Reply-To: <456aed460809100650q679e6b77q78eb4103ec5aeb17@mail.gmail.com>
References: <456aed460809100650q679e6b77q78eb4103ec5aeb17@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ad2cc1ef0809100659g3dd715dcpa259d0425912692@mail.gmail.com>

Marie,
Great job compiling the resources!  And I love the idea of inviting Stephen
Brookfield as a special guest.  As usual, Bonnie had a great idea to
contribute.

Wendy Quinones

On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Marie Cora <mariecora at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> Thanks so much for this input!  This is so great!  Ok, looks like I'm going
> to be a busy bee organizing these discussions for us.  I've compiled the
> suggestions that have come in so far - but this does not mean I've stopped
> collecting ideas, so if you have others, don't hesitate to send them to the
> List or to me.  They are listed in the order in which they have been posted,
> and I have noted where there were multiple votes on topics.
>
> If you have suggestions on resources - both material and person resources -
> that you feel would be beneficial for any of the discussions below, will you
> please email me this info?  I can then follow up on any resources that we
> can include in a discussion.
>
> Thanks!!
>
> Marie
>
>
> *Discussion List Items for Assessment*
>
>
>
> Young Adult Literacy - techniques and assessments for pre GED level (2
> votes)
>
>
>
> Reply:  Stephanie Korber (Director of Youth Education Center for Literacy,
> Inc., Philly) to share materials and strategies used in her program with
> this age group
>
>
>
> ************************
>
>
>
> A discussion of how often math is taught in ESL, what math is taught, and
> how math skills are assessed.
>
>
>
> ************************
>
>
>
> Transition of ESL students to GED studies, post-secondary education and/or
> job training (8 votes); assessment methods to measure application and
> transfer skills
>
> ****************************
>
>
>
> What data elements would really help programs grow and provide insights
> into success
>
>
>
> ****************************
>
>
>
> A discussion on what assessments may be available for
> meta-cognitive/critical thinking skills/higher-order skills, or how to
> develop assessment tools for these skills.  (3 votes)
>
>
>
> Suggestion:  Stephen Brookfield as a special guest (his website
> http://stephenbrookfield.com/papers.html describes ways to assess critical
> thinking in the classroom, in a situational rather than a standardized
> context)
>
>
>
> ***********************************
>
>
>
> Discussion of instructional assessments as opposed to program assessments,
> i.e.:  assessments of skills components (for example in reading, the
> measurement of decoding or fluency) that provide a roadmap for instructing
> students, and instructional assessments needed for diagnosing and addressing
> learning needs (2 votes); practical discussion on how to develop/use
> formative assessments
>
>
>
> ******************************
>
>
>
> Assessment of confidence: how important is it, how do we measure it and how
> can we use the findings in a way that policy and funding people will listen
> to? (2 votes)
>
>
>
> ***********************
>
>
>
> Assessment in online environments - assessing online/computer literacy
>
>
>
> ***********************
>
>
>
> How to measure fluency? How do we measure fluency as part of helping people
> gain expertise?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to teacherwendyq at gmail.com
>
>
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From PDonaldson at neenah.k12.wi.us  Wed Sep 10 12:22:28 2008
From: PDonaldson at neenah.k12.wi.us (Patti Donaldson)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:22:28 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1412]  I need guidance, please help!
Message-ID: <fc.000f6d8f02a56267000f6d8f02a56267.2a5653e@neenah.k12.wi.us>

Hello everyone!

I am new to the world of listservs, so bare with me as I learn the process.  I joined because I am in a k-3 literacy class for my master's program; however, I am a secondary educator, so this is new territory for me.  I am interested in the way early
literacy is assessed and also in literacy coaching.  Does any one know of any good sites or articles about these topics?  I'd appreciate your ideas.

Thank you for your help!





---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neenah Joint School District
Neenah, Wisconsin 54956
http://www.neenah.k12.wi.us


From ebourassa at tru.ca  Wed Sep 10 13:01:30 2008
From: ebourassa at tru.ca (Emma Bourassa)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:01:30 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1413] Re: I need guidance, please help!
In-Reply-To: <fc.000f6d8f02a56267000f6d8f02a56267.2a5653e@neenah.k12.wi.us>
References: <fc.000f6d8f02a56267000f6d8f02a56267.2a5653e@neenah.k12.wi.us>
Message-ID: <48C7A907.8103.007D.0@tru.ca>

Hi Patty, 
This link will take you to the Integrated Resource Package (IRP) for the British Columbia Curriculum for elementary students. http://www.bced.gov.bc.ca/irp/irp_ela.htm 
It may be of use as it has learning outcomes as well as materials and teaching ideas.
emma

Emma Bourassa
English as a Second or Additional Language/ Teaching English as a Second Language Instructor
ESL Department
Thompson Rivers University
900 McGill Road. P.O. Box 3010
Kamloops, B.C. V2C 5N3
(250) 371-5895
fax 371-5514
ebourassa at tru.ca

>>> 
From: 	Patti Donaldson <PDonaldson at neenah.k12.wi.us>
To:	<Assessment at nifl.gov>
Date: 	10/09/2008 10:25 am
Subject: 	[Assessment 1412]  I need guidance, please help!

Hello everyone!

I am new to the world of listservs, so bare with me as I learn the process.  I joined because I am in a k-3 literacy class for my master's program; however, I am a secondary educator, so this is new territory for me.  I am interested in the way early
literacy is assessed and also in literacy coaching.  Does any one know of any good sites or articles about these topics?  I'd appreciate your ideas.

Thank you for your help!





---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neenah Joint School District
Neenah, Wisconsin 54956
http://www.neenah.k12.wi.us 

-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov 
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment 
Email delivered to ebourassa at tru.ca


From korber at centerforliteracy.org  Wed Sep 10 16:36:41 2008
From: korber at centerforliteracy.org (Stephanie Korber)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:36:41 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1414] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
Message-ID: <7375733BB3CB8E438B091C915DB00ADF4D19E8@cflexchange.centerforliteracy.org>

Some folks have expressed an interest in our materials list.  I am
attaching it for all to view (hopefully this works).  I apologize for
the delayed response.  Been a bit under the weather.  Please note that
our materials list is intended for YOUNG adults 16-21 and it has not
been updated in a while, but it's a start.  
 
Thanks,
Stephanie
 
Stephanie Korber
Director of Youth Education
Center for Literacy, Inc.
636 S. 48th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19143
215 474 1235 ext. 270 & 219
korber at centerforliteracy.org
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Adrienne Davis
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 10:35 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1406] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
 
Hi Stephanie,

I, for one, would be interested in your list of materials for low
literacy adults. I'm especially interested in low readability, high
interest materials for an adult population, such as the 30 - 50 year old
set.

Many thanks for offering,

Adrienne Davis
Intake Assessment Specialist
Project Literacy, Howard County Library
410-313-7900

Building Life Skills Through Literacy. Educate. Enhance. Empower.
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephanie Korber <korber at centerforliteracy.org>
<mailto:korber at centerforliteracy.org> 
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
<mailto:assessment at nifl.gov> 
Cc: 
Date: Monday, September 8 2008 01:03 PM
Subject: [Assessment 1390] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
Good Morning! We run multiple similar programs for the same age group
with the same literacy levels here in Philadelphia. We find that
assessment of reading skills below a sixth grade level is extremely
important in order to provide instruction based on the needs of the
individual, as some will need intensive instruction in the foundational
reading skills that might not be accurately assessed using the TABE
(though we use the TABE for placement and grade level gain increase).
For diagnostic purposes we use the Woodcock Johnson Diagnostic Reading
Battery.  It is a time intensive test (one-on-one administration taking
just under 2 hours per student) and you must have the appropriate
qualifications to order and administer it, but we?ve found that it
provides our instructors with invaluable information about the specific
needs of each learner including their silent reading comprehension vs.
oral reading comprehension, ability to decode, rate of fluency, reading
vocabulary vs. oral vocabulary, etc. It takes about the same time to
administer as a qualitative reading inventory (QRI). 
 
Our teachers use a broad range of materials and strategies for
instruction. In all fairness, I must tell you that we hire certified
reading specialists to work with this population. They have been trained
to address the needs of this target population so they come with a
repertoire of strategies and ideas for materials. I can send you a list
of things we commonly use if you?ll send me your email address. They
include the Bluford series of young adult fiction (low readability, high
interest), Wild Side Series, News for You (New Readers Press), and more.
Also, I teach an online course through ProLiteracy Worldwide that
addressing strategies and materials for young adults. The next offering
will be in October, if you are interested.
 
Best,
Stephanie
 
Stephanie Korber
Director of Youth Education
Center for Literacy, Inc.
636 S. 48th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19143
215 474 1235 ext. 270 & 219
korber at centerforliteracy.org
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of O'Connor, Susan
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 10:07 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: RE: [Assessment 1386] Seeking your discussion topic ideas
 
Good Morning:
 
Young Adult Literacy-we are embarking on running two classes for young
adults ages 16-24 who read below a 6th grade reading level. So
techniques and assessments for this special group-pre GED level.
 
Susan K. O'Connor
Director, Literacy Program
Brooklyn Public Library
431 6th Ave.
Brooklyn, New York 11215
(718) 832-3560 x 5 (718) 832-9032 fax (917) 848-2176 Cell
 
 
A library must reflect what is best in a community and reach out to all
people. If citizens are to safeguard civil liberties, elect wise
officials, make sense of the news and negotiate public policy with other
citizens in an ever more diverse society-libraries must be strong.
 
________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
Sent: Mon 9/8/2008 9:49 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1386] Seeking your discussion topic ideas
Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all. I hope this email finds
you well.
 
Happy International Literacy Day!!
 
I want to welcome new subscribers who have signed on in the past couple
of months we now have a total of 715 subscribers on this List.
 
To start off September, I want to ask you what types of topics that you
would like to see us discuss here on the Assessment List. As always, I
will organize some discussions with special guests, but I would like to
gather your thoughts and requests on discussion topics as well. 
 
So please send your ideas to either the List, or to me personally, if
you prefer that. I will put together a list of the requested topics and
post them for everyone, and we will go from there!
 
Thanks so much I'm looking forward to reading what is on your minds, and
I'm also looking forward to another interesting year of discussion on
assessment topics in Adult Education.
 
Marie
 
 
 
Marie Cora, Moderator
Assessment Discussion List 
National Institute for Literacy 
Email me at: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
Subscribe at: http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
Coordinator of Assessment 
Program Planning Resource Collection
National Institute for Literacy 
Visit at: 
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html
 
 
 
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to adrienne.davis at hclibrary.org
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From dschwam1 at student.gsu.edu  Wed Sep 10 18:49:14 2008
From: dschwam1 at student.gsu.edu (Dina M Schwam)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:49:14 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1415] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
Message-ID: <1221086954.c78fd8cdschwam1@student.gsu.edu>

Hi John,

I have to agree with you.  I think a lot of indivuduals who lack confidence in their abilities have a lack of motivation that can impede learning.  I believe there are self-efficacy measures out there but I am not familiar with any of them.  I would love to know of any valid assessments of this type.

Thanks,
Dina

-----Original Message-----
From: "John Benseman" <john.benseman at criticalinsight.co.nz>
To: "'The Assessment Discussion List'" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 08:33:18 +1200
Subject: [Assessment 1399] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas

Marie - I would be interested in discussing the assessment of confidence. It
is the number one outcome that learners report in most studies, it is sort
of acknowledged (but then quickly dismissed as a 'soft' outcome) by policy
and funding people and, I believe, underpins many of the other outcomes
learners achieve - for example, I'm sure that many reading assessments
increase at least in part because learners gain the confidence to use skills
they already have.

 

So, confidence: how important is it, how do we measure it and how can we use
the findings in a way that policy and funding people will listen to?

 

Regards, John

 

John Benseman

*   john.benseman at criticalinsight.co.nz

*   641 9 627 1882  Cell  027 454 0683

* 52a Bolton St, Blockhouse Bay, Auckland 0600, NZ

Skype: boltonstbunch

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Tuesday, 9 September 2008 1:49 a.m.
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1386] Seeking your discussion topic ideas

 

Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.  I hope this email finds
you well.

 

Happy International Literacy Day!!

 

I want to welcome new subscribers who have signed on in the past couple of
months - we now have a total of 715 subscribers on this List.

 

To start off September, I want to ask you what types of topics that you
would like to see us discuss here on the Assessment List.  As always, I will
organize some discussions with special guests, but I would like to gather
your thoughts and requests on discussion topics as well.  

 

So please send your ideas to either the List, or to me personally, if you
prefer that.  I will put together a list of the requested topics and post
them for everyone, and we will go from there!

 

Thanks so much - I'm looking forward to reading what is on your minds, and
I'm also looking forward to another interesting year of discussion on
assessment topics in Adult Education.

 

Marie

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 





From taklein at austin.rr.com  Wed Sep 10 20:04:48 2008
From: taklein at austin.rr.com (Ted Klein)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 19:04:48 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1416] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
References: <7375733BB3CB8E438B091C915DB00ADF4D19E8@cflexchange.centerforliteracy.org>
Message-ID: <D043BF1C494F4A47A4A4F0C1F96C1855@your4dacd0ea75>

Stephanie,

I am disturbed by the often-used term "phonemic awareness." Can you please explain exactly what it means? I give priority in my teaching and workshops to the importance of sounds in language. Sounds are the basic medium of real language. I hear this term often. However, most teachers and many "experts," cannot define "phoneme," let alone "phonemic awareness." On the native speaker level,  is a familiarity and instinctive ability to recognize and discriminate similar sounds enough? On the non-native speaker level, what does a student with "phonemic awareness" know and what are they able to do? I would be very pleased to see it spelled out. (not a pun) What about allophones? Aren't they equally important? That would constitute "phonetic awareness," which I find necessary to real listening and speaking proficiency. The word "awareness itself is rather loaded!  I'm aware of "physics," but truly don't know anything about it and can't use it.

Respectfully,  Ted

www.tedklein-ESL.com 


 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Stephanie Korber 
  To: The Assessment Discussion List 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 3:36 PM
  Subject: [Assessment 1414] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas


  Some folks have expressed an interest in our materials list.  I am attaching it for all to view (hopefully this works).  I apologize for the delayed response.  Been a bit under the weather.  Please note that our materials list is intended for YOUNG adults 16-21 and it has not been updated in a while, but it's a start.  

   

  Thanks,

  Stephanie

   

  Stephanie Korber

  Director of Youth Education

  Center for Literacy, Inc.

  636 S. 48th Street

  Philadelphia, PA 19143

  215 474 1235 ext. 270 & 219

  korber at centerforliteracy.org

  -----Original Message-----
  From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Adrienne Davis
  Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 10:35 AM
  To: The Assessment Discussion List
  Subject: [Assessment 1406] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas

   

  Hi Stephanie,

  I, for one, would be interested in your list of materials for low literacy adults. I'm especially interested in low readability, high interest materials for an adult population, such as the 30 - 50 year old set.

  Many thanks for offering,

  Adrienne Davis
  Intake Assessment Specialist
  Project Literacy, Howard County Library
  410-313-7900

  Building Life Skills Through Literacy. Educate. Enhance. Empower.

  ----- Original Message -----

  From: Stephanie Korber <korber at centerforliteracy.org>

  To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>

  Cc: 

  Date: Monday, September 8 2008 01:03 PM

  Subject: [Assessment 1390] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas

  Good Morning! We run multiple similar programs for the same age group with the same literacy levels here in Philadelphia. We find that assessment of reading skills below a sixth grade level is extremely important in order to provide instruction based on the needs of the individual, as some will need intensive instruction in the foundational reading skills that might not be accurately assessed using the TABE (though we use the TABE for placement and grade level gain increase).  For diagnostic purposes we use the Woodcock Johnson Diagnostic Reading Battery.  It is a time intensive test (one-on-one administration taking just under 2 hours per student) and you must have the appropriate qualifications to order and administer it, but we?ve found that it provides our instructors with invaluable information about the specific needs of each learner including their silent reading comprehension vs. oral reading comprehension, ability to decode, rate of fluency, reading vocabulary vs. oral vocabulary, etc. It takes about the same time to administer as a qualitative reading inventory (QRI). 

   

  Our teachers use a broad range of materials and strategies for instruction. In all fairness, I must tell you that we hire certified reading specialists to work with this population. They have been trained to address the needs of this target population so they come with a repertoire of strategies and ideas for materials. I can send you a list of things we commonly use if you?ll send me your email address. They include the Bluford series of young adult fiction (low readability, high interest), Wild Side Series, News for You (New Readers Press), and more.  Also, I teach an online course through ProLiteracy Worldwide that addressing strategies and materials for young adults. The next offering will be in October, if you are interested.

   

  Best,

  Stephanie

   

  Stephanie Korber

  Director of Youth Education

  Center for Literacy, Inc.

  636 S. 48th Street

  Philadelphia, PA 19143

  215 474 1235 ext. 270 & 219

  korber at centerforliteracy.org

  -----Original Message-----
  From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of O'Connor, Susan
  Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 10:07 AM
  To: The Assessment Discussion List
  Subject: RE: [Assessment 1386] Seeking your discussion topic ideas

   

  Good Morning:

   

  Young Adult Literacy-we are embarking on running two classes for young adults ages 16-24 who read below a 6th grade reading level. So techniques and assessments for this special group-pre GED level.

   

  Susan K. O'Connor

  Director, Literacy Program

  Brooklyn Public Library

  431 6th Ave.

  Brooklyn, New York 11215

  (718) 832-3560 x 5 (718) 832-9032 fax (917) 848-2176 Cell

   

   

  A library must reflect what is best in a community and reach out to all people. If citizens are to safeguard civil liberties, elect wise officials, make sense of the news and negotiate public policy with other citizens in an ever more diverse society-libraries must be strong.

   


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
  Sent: Mon 9/8/2008 9:49 AM
  To: assessment at nifl.gov
  Subject: [Assessment 1386] Seeking your discussion topic ideas

  Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all. I hope this email finds you well.

   

  Happy International Literacy Day!!

   

  I want to welcome new subscribers who have signed on in the past couple of months we now have a total of 715 subscribers on this List.

   

  To start off September, I want to ask you what types of topics that you would like to see us discuss here on the Assessment List. As always, I will organize some discussions with special guests, but I would like to gather your thoughts and requests on discussion topics as well. 

   

  So please send your ideas to either the List, or to me personally, if you prefer that. I will put together a list of the requested topics and post them for everyone, and we will go from there!

   

  Thanks so much I'm looking forward to reading what is on your minds, and I'm also looking forward to another interesting year of discussion on assessment topics in Adult Education.

   

  Marie

   

   

   

  Marie Cora, Moderator

  Assessment Discussion List 

  National Institute for Literacy 

  Email me at: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

  Subscribe at: http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

   

  Coordinator of Assessment 

  Program Planning Resource Collection

  National Institute for Literacy 

  Visit at: http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

   

   

   

  -------------------------------
  National Institute for Literacy
  Assessment mailing list
  Assessment at nifl.gov
  To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
  Email delivered to adrienne.davis at hclibrary.org



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  Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (5.0.0.10 - 10.100.027).
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From korber at centerforliteracy.org  Thu Sep 11 10:45:26 2008
From: korber at centerforliteracy.org (Stephanie Korber)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:45:26 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1417] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
Message-ID: <7375733BB3CB8E438B091C915DB00ADF4D19F0@cflexchange.centerforliteracy.org>

Hi Ted,
 
The following is a definition of phonemic awareness from NIFL's
glossary:
Phonemic awareness
Phonemic awareness is the ability to notice, think about, and work with
the individual sounds in spoken words. An example of how beginning
readers show us they have phonemic awareness is combining or blending
the separate sounds of a word to say the word ("/c/ /a/ /t/ - cat.") 
Phonemic awareness (please note that I did not choose the word
"awareness," though I suspect it is used because these are oral
activities and the learner needs to be aware of the sounds in words) is
one component of reading.  Obviously, in and of itself, it is not enough
to be able to discriminate sounds to read, but it is an important part
of a person's ability to decode.  Subcomponents of phonemic awareness
include segmenting, substituting, blending, isolating, and deleting
phonemes (individual sounds).  Activities to improve phonemic awareness
are done orally.  IE. Say the word cat, now say cat without the /t/.
Phonemic awareness instruction becomes phonics instruction when you make
the connection of the sounds to print.  NIFL's glossary has definitions
for all of these terms.
In our work with native speaking struggling readers (below a 4th grade
level), we have found phonemic instruction to be a vital part of
improving a learner's ability to decode.  We have found that beginning
readers who have not yet met with success in learning to decode often
need this type of instruction.  There's lots of research available that
will attest to this and some that may possibly negate this.  I'm going
by experience here.  We usually do not get as specific to teach
allophones, unless a learner points out a different sound for the same
letter - IE, from wikipedia, /p/ in pin is aspirated whereas the /p/ in
spin is not.  I do not have information specific to NNES, but I do know
that our ESL programs do teach sounds of letters in her classes
(depending on the teacher and the needs of the students).  I'm sure
there is research out there specific to NNES, but I can not quote it at
this time.
THE ARC study (found on NIFL's website) has suggested quick assessments
to determine a learner's need for this type of instruction.  Common
measures for assessing these skills include C-TOPP and Woodcock Johnson
Diagnostic Battery (though I don't think these are the assessments used
in the study).  Truthfully, you don't need a specific test as much as
you need an understanding of the subcomponents.  You can engage a
learner in some activities (as described above) to determine if they can
isolate, segment, delete, and blend individual sounds.
I'm sure there is more to say here, but I have to run to a meeting.
Best,
Stephanie
Stephanie Korber
Director of Youth Education
Center for Literacy, Inc.
636 S. 48th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19143
215 474 1235 ext. 270 & 219
korber at centerforliteracy.org
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Ted Klein
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 8:05 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1416] Re: Seeking your discussion topic ideas
 
Stephanie,
 
I am disturbed by the often-used term "phonemic awareness." Can you
please explain exactly what it means? I give priority in my teaching and
workshops to the importance of sounds in language. Sounds are the basic
medium of real language. I hear this term often. However, most teachers
and many "experts," cannot define "phoneme," let alone "phonemic
awareness." On the native speaker level,  is a familiarity and
instinctive ability to recognize and discriminate similar sounds enough?
On the non-native speaker level, what does a student with "phonemic
awareness" know and what are they able to do? I would be very pleased to
see it spelled out. (not a pun) What about allophones? Aren't they
equally important? That would constitute "phonetic awareness," which I
find necessary to real listening and speaking proficiency. The word
"awareness itself is rather loaded!  I'm aware of "physics," but truly
don't know anything about it and can't use it.
 
Respectfully,  Ted
 
www.tedklein-ESL.com 
 
 
 
	----- Original Message ----- 
	From: Stephanie Korber <mailto:korber at centerforliteracy.org>  
	To: The Assessment Discussion List <mailto:assessment at nifl.gov>

	Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 3:36 PM
	Subject: [Assessment 1414] Re: Seeking your discussion topic
ideas
	 
	Some folks have expressed an interest in our materials list.  I
am attaching it for all to view (hopefully this works).  I apologize for
the delayed response.  Been a bit under the weather.  Please note that
our materials list is intended for YOUNG adults 16-21 and it has not
been updated in a while, but it's a start.  
	 
	Thanks,
	Stephanie
	 
	Stephanie Korber
	Director of Youth Education
	Center for Literacy, Inc.
	636 S. 48th Street
	Philadelphia, PA 19143
	215 474 1235 ext. 270 & 219
	korber at centerforliteracy.org
	-----Original Message-----
	From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Adrienne Davis
	Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 10:35 AM
	To: The Assessment Discussion List
	Subject: [Assessment 1406] Re: Seeking your discussion topic
ideas
	 
	Hi Stephanie,
	
	I, for one, would be interested in your list of materials for
low literacy adults. I'm especially interested in low readability, high
interest materials for an adult population, such as the 30 - 50 year old
set.
	
	Many thanks for offering,
	
	Adrienne Davis
	Intake Assessment Specialist
	Project Literacy, Howard County Library
	410-313-7900
	
	Building Life Skills Through Literacy. Educate. Enhance.
Empower.
	----- Original Message -----
	From: Stephanie Korber <korber at centerforliteracy.org>
<mailto:korber at centerforliteracy.org> 
	To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
<mailto:assessment at nifl.gov> 
	Cc: 
	Date: Monday, September 8 2008 01:03 PM
	Subject: [Assessment 1390] Re: Seeking your discussion topic
ideas
	Good Morning! We run multiple similar programs for the same age
group with the same literacy levels here in Philadelphia. We find that
assessment of reading skills below a sixth grade level is extremely
important in order to provide instruction based on the needs of the
individual, as some will need intensive instruction in the foundational
reading skills that might not be accurately assessed using the TABE
(though we use the TABE for placement and grade level gain increase).
For diagnostic purposes we use the Woodcock Johnson Diagnostic Reading
Battery.  It is a time intensive test (one-on-one administration taking
just under 2 hours per student) and you must have the appropriate
qualifications to order and administer it, but we?ve found that it
provides our instructors with invaluable information about the specific
needs of each learner including their silent reading comprehension vs.
oral reading comprehension, ability to decode, rate of fluency, reading
vocabulary vs. oral vocabulary, etc. It takes about the same time to
administer as a qualitative reading inventory (QRI). 
	 
	Our teachers use a broad range of materials and strategies for
instruction. In all fairness, I must tell you that we hire certified
reading specialists to work with this population. They have been trained
to address the needs of this target population so they come with a
repertoire of strategies and ideas for materials. I can send you a list
of things we commonly use if you?ll send me your email address. They
include the Bluford series of young adult fiction (low readability, high
interest), Wild Side Series, News for You (New Readers Press), and more.
Also, I teach an online course through ProLiteracy Worldwide that
addressing strategies and materials for young adults. The next offering
will be in October, if you are interested.
	 
	Best,
	Stephanie
	 
	Stephanie Korber
	Director of Youth Education
	Center for Literacy, Inc.
	636 S. 48th Street
	Philadelphia, PA 19143
	215 474 1235 ext. 270 & 219
	korber at centerforliteracy.org
	-----Original Message-----
	From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of O'Connor, Susan
	Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 10:07 AM
	To: The Assessment Discussion List
	Subject: RE: [Assessment 1386] Seeking your discussion topic
ideas
	 
	Good Morning:
	 
	Young Adult Literacy-we are embarking on running two classes for
young adults ages 16-24 who read below a 6th grade reading level. So
techniques and assessments for this special group-pre GED level.
	 
	Susan K. O'Connor
	Director, Literacy Program
	Brooklyn Public Library
	431 6th Ave.
	Brooklyn, New York 11215
	(718) 832-3560 x 5 (718) 832-9032 fax (917) 848-2176 Cell
	 
	 
	A library must reflect what is best in a community and reach out
to all people. If citizens are to safeguard civil liberties, elect wise
officials, make sense of the news and negotiate public policy with other
citizens in an ever more diverse society-libraries must be strong.
	 
	
________________________________

	From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
	Sent: Mon 9/8/2008 9:49 AM
	To: assessment at nifl.gov
	Subject: [Assessment 1386] Seeking your discussion topic ideas
	Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all. I hope this
email finds you well.
	 
	Happy International Literacy Day!!
	 
	I want to welcome new subscribers who have signed on in the past
couple of months we now have a total of 715 subscribers on this List.
	 
	To start off September, I want to ask you what types of topics
that you would like to see us discuss here on the Assessment List. As
always, I will organize some discussions with special guests, but I
would like to gather your thoughts and requests on discussion topics as
well. 
	 
	So please send your ideas to either the List, or to me
personally, if you prefer that. I will put together a list of the
requested topics and post them for everyone, and we will go from there!
	 
	Thanks so much I'm looking forward to reading what is on your
minds, and I'm also looking forward to another interesting year of
discussion on assessment topics in Adult Education.
	 
	Marie
	 
	 
	 
	Marie Cora, Moderator
	Assessment Discussion List 
	National Institute for Literacy 
	Email me at: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
	Subscribe at: http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
	 
	Coordinator of Assessment 
	Program Planning Resource Collection
	National Institute for Literacy 
	Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html
	 
	 
	 
	-------------------------------
	National Institute for Literacy
	Assessment mailing list
	Assessment at nifl.gov
	To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go
to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
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From mariecora at gmail.com  Thu Sep 11 11:03:55 2008
From: mariecora at gmail.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:03:55 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1418]  Subject line reminder
Message-ID: <456aed460809110803v664af281x29628f03370f6fb1@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks,



Just a reminder to remember to change the info in the subject line when you
are changing the topic of the discussion.  It lets subscribers instantly
know the subject matter of the post and makes the conversations much easier
to follow.



Thanks!!



Marie



Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List

National Institute for Literacy

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment



Coordinator of Assessment

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html
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From RKenyon721 at aol.com  Thu Sep 11 15:14:13 2008
From: RKenyon721 at aol.com (RKenyon721 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 15:14:13 EDT
Subject: [Assessment 1419]  Phonemic Awareness - Response to Ted
Message-ID: <c16.492f573d.35fac805@aol.com>

Hi,
 
I posted the message sent from your Assessment List by Ted to my LD  
Discussion List and asked subscribers with experience in reading and dyslexia to  
respond.  I just received the first response as printed below.  If  other 
responses are posted to my List, I will forward them to you as well.
 

Ted and Rochelle,
 
I would describe "phonemic awareness" as  the ability to isolate and 
manipulate the smallest sounds that make up language.  If I am assessing an adult 
reader to see if they have struggles with phonemic  awareness, I might use tests 
that (among other tasks) ask the adult to find  words that rhyme 
("hat/room/sat-which words rhyme?", remove sounds from a word  ("say /tin/ without /t/"), 
change one sound in a word ("if I say /hitter/  and change /hit/ to /bit/, what 
is the new word?"), or say the sounds in a word  backwards (say the sounds in 
the word /tip/, now reverse the sounds-what is the  word now?"). When a 
students struggles with such activities, it may mean that  they have weak phonemic 
awareness skills and therefore will inform a  program of study/tutoring to help 
them improve their decoding and hence  strengthen reading.
 
Hope this helps,
 
Julie Ennis M.ED
Education  Consultant
Fairfax  VA

 
 
 
Thank you,
 
Rochelle Kenyon
 
 
 
Rochelle Kenyon, Ed.D.
Moderator, NIFL/LINCS Learning  Disabilities Discussion List
Center for Literacy Studies at the University of  Tennessee
_RKenyon721 at aol.com_ (mailto:RKenyon721 at aol.com) 
321.637.1319 

To  post a message: 
_Learningdisabilities at nifl.gov_ (mailto:Learningdisabilities at nifl.gov)   

To subscribe: 
_http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/LearningDisabilities_ 
(http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/LearningDisabilities) 

To  read archived messages:
_http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/learningdisabilities/2008/date.html_ 
(http://www.nifl.gov/linc/discussions/list_archives.html) 



**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, 
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.      
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
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From RKenyon721 at aol.com  Thu Sep 11 16:20:35 2008
From: RKenyon721 at aol.com (RKenyon721 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:20:35 EDT
Subject: [Assessment 1420]  Phonemic Awareness
Message-ID: <d0d.39ae7904.35fad793@aol.com>

Ted,
 
Here is another response:
 


Ted, on  the subject of the structure of language, it can be quite 
complicated. ? beyond  my total understanding for sure.  A simplification analyzes a 
spoken  language (English for our sake) in terms of its phonemic structure.  That 
 is of particular value to reading teachers.  For the sake of definition, a  ?
phone? is a speech sound.  A ?phoneme? is the smallest unit of sound in  the 
English language that makes a difference in a word?s meaning.  ?Phonemic 
awareness? is the ability to identify, to consciously think  about, and to 
manipulate the individual sounds (phonemes) in words. ?Phonemic  awareness? 
activities are oral.  For example, ?How many sounds do you hear  in the word ?sat???
 or  ?What word is left if you take the /m/ away from  ?meat???   The sense 
of phonemic awareness can be developed  through a ?chaining? spelling 
exercise, such as taking the word ?in? and  saying, ?If this says ?in?, show me ?
sin??; then, ?If this says ?sin?, show me  ?spin?, etc.  This continues by 
making one change each time (omitting a sound,  adding a sound or substituting 
a sound). Another activity would be doing a  ?blending? drill.  If you do a ?
word search? on ?phonemic awareness?, you  will find many resources on the 
internet.  IDA and LD Online are two  reliable websites.   
As for  ?allophones?, they are the ?phones? of a particular ?phoneme?.  
For  example, note the different ways we articulate the sound for the phoneme ?t?
.  ?top?, ?bought?, ?button?, ?little?. In my experience in teaching  
reading, I do not emphasize or discuss ?allophones?.  It is getting too  
technical and not necessary in learning to read.  As far as the word  ?awareness? is 
concerned, I feel it involves a consciousness of where sounds are  in 
syllables and their sequence.  
I don?t  know if I have addressed your question to your satisfaction.  This 
is how I  learned it in my Orton-Gillingham training. 
Betsy  Gauss 
Lake Wales  Literacy Council tutor trainer 
Lake  Wales, FL  33853 




Rochelle Kenyon
 
 
 
Rochelle Kenyon, Ed.D.
Moderator, NIFL/LINCS Learning  Disabilities Discussion List
Center for Literacy Studies at the University of  Tennessee
_RKenyon721 at aol.com_ (mailto:RKenyon721 at aol.com) 
321.637.1319 

To  post a message: 
_Learningdisabilities at nifl.gov_ (mailto:Learningdisabilities at nifl.gov)   

To subscribe: 
_http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/LearningDisabilities_ 
(http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/LearningDisabilities) 

To  read archived messages:
_http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/learningdisabilities/2008/date.html_ 
(http://www.nifl.gov/linc/discussions/list_archives.html) 



**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, 
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.      
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
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From mariecora at gmail.com  Sat Sep 13 11:21:04 2008
From: mariecora at gmail.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 11:21:04 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1421]  More on phonemic awareness
Message-ID: <456aed460809130821r55e5f06crc09258caf9df648e@mail.gmail.com>

Colleagues:

The following posts are forwarded from the Learning Disabilities Discussion
List; to subscribe to that List, go to:
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/Learningdisabilities.

Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator

***************************************



>From the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development
commissioned by The Center for the Future of Teaching and Learning

Bonita Grossen, Research Associate with The National Center to Improve the
Tools of Educators

Phonemic awareness is the ability to segment words and syllables into
constituent sounds units, or phonemes. Converging evidence from all the
research centers shows that deficits in phonemic awareness reflect the core
deficit in reading difficulties. These deficits are characterized by
difficulties in segmenting syllables and words into constituent sound units
called phonemes--in short, there is a difficulty in turning spelling into
sounds.


Lack of phonemic awareness seems to be a major obstacle to learning to read
(Vellutino & Scanlon, 1987a; Wagner & Torgeson, 1987). This is true for any
language, even Chinese. About two in five children have some level of
difficulty with phonemic awareness. For about one in five children phonemic
awareness does not develop or improve over time. These children never catch
up, but fall further and further behind in reading and in all academic
subjects (Fletcher, et al., 1994; Shaywitz, Escobar, Shaywitz, Fletcher, &
Makuch, 1992; Stanovich, 1986; Stanovich & Siegel,1994).


Instruction using the following types of phonemic awareness tasks has had a
positive effect on reading acquisition and spelling for pre-readers:
rhyming, auditorily discriminating sounds that are different, blending
spoken sounds into words, word-to-word matching, isolating sounds in words,
counting phonemes, segmenting spoken words into sounds, deleting sounds from
words (Ball & Blachman, 1991; Byrne & Fielding-Barnsley, 1990; Cunningham,
1990; Foorman, Francis, Beeler, Winikates, & Fletcher, in press; Lie, 1991;
Lundberg, Frost, & Petersen, 1988; Vellutino & Scanlon, 1987b; Yopp, 1988).
Explicit instruction in how segmentation and blending are involved in the
reading process was superior to instruction that did not explicitly teach
the children to apply phonemic awareness to reading (Cunningham, 1990).
Kindergarten children with explicit instruction in phonemic awareness did
better than a group of first graders who had no instruction, indicating that
this crucial pre-skill for reading can be taught at least by age five and is
not developmental (Cunningham, 1990).


In a study by Ball and Blachman (1991), seven weeks of explicit instruction
in phonemic awareness combined with explicit instruction in sound-spelling
correspondences for kindergarten children was more powerful than instruction
in sound-spelling correspondences alone and more powerful than language
activities in improving reading skills.


*Joy Hunder*

joy.hunder at losttech.com



***********************************



A definition in Unlocking Literacy, Marcia K. Henry, 2003, Paul H. Brooks
Publishing Co., may prove helpful.

"The term phonological awareness is generally used to indicate awareness of
and facility with all levels of the speech sound system, including word
boundaries, stress patterns, syllable patterns, onset rime units, and
phonemes.
"Phonemic awareness, the most advanced level of phonological awareness,
requires the conscious awareness of individual phonemes in a given word,
along with the ability to manipulate these sounds."

Anyone with an interest in this subject will find the cited publication not
only useful for teaching but fun to read.

I have found students grasping reading and spelling skills when they
understand how the 26 alphabet letters combine to produce 44 sounds. More
information can be garnered from the International Dyslexia Association.
Educators Publishing Service, Inc. and Academic Therapy are sources for easy

to use materials.

Lucille Cuttler
l.cuttler at comcast.net
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From ekocher at state.pa.us  Mon Sep 15 13:23:33 2008
From: ekocher at state.pa.us (Kocher, Eileen)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:23:33 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1422] PAACE Midwinter Conference Request for Proposals
Message-ID: <7837AF0EC38E60488C6E26DCE465435E2C38A64EB1@ENHBGMBX02.PA.LCL>

The 44th Annual PAACE Midwinter Conference on Adult Education, the largest gathering of adult educators in Pennsylvania, will be held at the Hershey Lodge, February 11-13, 2009. Adult educators and those from related areas will convene for the premier professional development and networking opportunity for all aspects of adult education in the Pennsylvania.
The theme, "PAACE Yourself: Keeping Up with Adult Education," will provide a focal point for exploring educational opportunities for all types of adult students, more efficient delivery systems, transition to postsecondary education and training, new research, professional development, workforce development, public policy supporting adult education, and the great strides within our field.
Keynote speaker will be Dr. Ian Baptiste who is an Associate Professor of Education and Professor-in-Charge of the Adult Education program at the Pennsylvania State University.
PAACE (Pennsylvania Association for Adult Continuing Education) invites you and your colleagues to submit a proposal for a concurrent session, or a more informal roundtable. Proposals are being accepted NOW.
We hope you will consider taking the time to share your work in adult education. Proposal deadline is October 1, 2008.
Here is the link to the online proposal form:
http://www.paacesite.org/web-data/Diagrams/PAACE%20Site/conference.html#Anchor-Presente-12249
We hope to hear from you!

Diane C. Inverso
Director of Education, Mayor's Commission on Literacy
First Vice-President
Pennsylvania Association for Adult Continuing Education (PAACE) www.paacesite.org<http://www.paacesite.org/>
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From mariecora at gmail.com  Tue Sep 16 09:53:11 2008
From: mariecora at gmail.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:53:11 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1423]  Thurs/Fri Discussion on Working with Youth
Message-ID: <456aed460809160653m10c20b25icd18ae7d453125ee@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,



Subscriber Stephanie Korber has agreed to be available this Thursday and
Friday to share more about the work that her programs does with Young
Adults/Youth.  Stephanie's original post from last Monday and the email she
sent out shortly thereafter with a list of resources that are regularly used
with this population are pasted below for your convenience.



Please join us Thursday and Friday (September 18 and 19) to learn more about
the Center for Literacy, Inc., their Youth Education services, and
activities they use for diagnostic purposes.



Please also share your own work with Young Adults ? this important realm of
adult education is growing and I understand that more and more programs are
adding components to work specifically with this population.



I can produce a transcript of the discussion and a comprehensive list of any
resources shared that can then be accessed by subscribers (and others
interested in working with youth and literacy).



Thanks ? and looking forward to our discussion,



Marie



Marie Cora

Assessment Discussion List Moderator



*********************************************************************



Good Morning!  We run multiple similar programs for the same age group with
the same literacy levels here in Philadelphia.  We find that assessment of
reading skills below a sixth grade level is extremely important in order to
provide instruction based on the needs of the individual, as some will need
intensive instruction in the foundational reading skills that might not be
accurately assessed using the TABE (though we use the TABE for placement and
grade level gain increase).  For diagnostic purposes we use the Woodcock
Johnson Diagnostic Reading Battery.  It is a time intensive test (one-on-one
administration taking just under 2 hours per student) and you must have the
appropriate qualifications to order and administer it, but we've found that
it provides our instructors with invaluable information about the specific
needs of each learner including their silent reading comprehension vs. oral
reading comprehension, ability to decode, rate of fluency, reading
vocabulary vs. oral vocabulary, etc.  It takes about the same time to
administer as a qualitative reading inventory (QRI).



Our teachers use a broad range of materials and strategies for instruction.
In all fairness, I must tell you that we hire certified reading specialists
to work with this population.  They have been trained to address the needs
of this target population so they come with a repertoire of strategies and
ideas for materials.  I can send you a list of things we commonly use if
you'll send me your email address.  They include the Bluford series of young
adult fiction (low readability, high interest), Wild Side Series, News for
You (New Readers Press), and more.  Also, I teach an online course through
ProLiteracy Worldwide that addressing strategies and materials for young
adults.  The next offering will be in October, if you are interested.



Best,

Stephanie



Stephanie Korber

Director of Youth Education

Center for Literacy, Inc.

636 S. 48th Street

Philadelphia, PA 19143

215 474 1235 ext. 270 & 219

korber at centerforliteracy.org



*********************************************************************



E3 Center Activities/Teaching Strategies/Programs

**

*Playing with sounds (phonemic awareness)/Decoding/Word recognition:*



AbeCeDarien: www.abcdrp.com

Strong Learning Centers Phonics card games www.stronglearning.com or
1-888-3-STRONG

LindaMood-Bell: http://www.lindamoodbell.com/

REWARDS program: available through Sopris West at http://www.sopriswest.com/

Echo/Choral reading

Ability to delete, substitute, blend and identify sounds/syllables in
isolation

Word building through phonics tiles/reading rods/phonics blocks (including
non-real words)

Word sorting by phoneme (i.e. words with long e sound ee, ea, e consonant e)

Spelling patterns (*Month by Month Phonics for Upper Grades* by P.
Cunningham and D. Hall)

Direct instruction in syllabication

Direct instruction on prefixes, suffixes and roots (including chunking
unfamiliar words)

Context clues



*Fluency building:*



Quick Reads: http://www.quickreads.org/<http://mail.centerforliteracy.org/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.quickreads.org/>

Reading with expression

Dictation exercises

Sight word practice

Regular tapings of reading with immediate feedback

Charting reading progress through timed reading activities calculating words
per minute

Echo/Choral reading

Independent reading

* *

*Vocabulary building:*

* *

Vocabulary comics, personal dictionary

Cloze activities

Pre-reading vocabulary discussion

Prefixes, suffixes

Latin or Greek root

Synonyms, antonyms, homonyms

Dictionary practice, expressing definition in own words, and practice using
word

Prosody



*Comprehension:*



Activating prior knowledge, predicting, questioning, connecting to text,
summarizing,

identifying main idea and details, understanding author's purpose, point of
view, fact or opinion

Tellbacks (verbal, written, oral)

Modeling Think Alouds/Developing self-monitoring skills

Graphic Organizers

Visualizing/Guided Imagery

Text rendering

Skimming

Think-Pair-Share

Character Analysis

Higher level thinking (evaluative, inferences, making connections to own
life, etc)



*Writing/Spelling:*



Target Spelling by Steck Vaughn: http://steckvaughn.harcourtachieve.com/

AVKO Sequential Spelling: www.avko.org

Fast write

Regular journal (including dialogue journal with peers or instructor)



*Use of technology:*

* *

Typing practice (free programs found online, including
http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/typing/)

TV 411: www.TV411.org <http://www.tv411.org/>

Publisher

HeadSprout: www.headsprout.com

Earobics: www.earobics.com



*Additional materials used: *

* *

*Bluford Series* by Townsend Press

*News for You*, published weekly by New Readers Press

*True Stories* by Sandra Heyer

*Critical **Reading** Series* by Jamestown Publishers

*Words Their Way* by Merrill/Prentice Hall

http://www.literacyconnections.com/WordsTheirWay.php<http://mail.centerforliteracy.org/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.literacyconnections.com/WordsTheirWay.php>.


*Reading Reflex* by Carmen and Geoffrey McGuinness (AbeCeDarien is extension
of approach)

*A Non-Textbook, Non-workbook Approach to Teaching Language Arts (Grades
4-8)* by James T.
Charnock<http://www.amazon.com/s/105-3329271-7356462?ie=UTF8&index=books&rank=-relevance%2C%2Bavailability%2C-daterank&field-author-exact=Charnock%2C%20James%20T.>

Real life materials (menus, catalogs, newspapers, etc)

Scrabble

Movies: Educating Rita, Stand and Deliver, Dangerous Minds, The Ron Clark
Story, Follow My Leader, Coach Carter, Take the Lead, Lean on Me, Mr.
Holland's Opus, To Sir With Love, Dead Poet's Society, The Emperor's Club

* *

*Themes observed:*



Encouraging active readers

Self-monitoring/self evaluation

Inquiry!!

Reinforcing and building on skills students already possess

Transferring fluency skills (intonation, flow, use of punctuation, pace,
etc.) to internal voice for silent reading

Honoring learning styles through multi-sensory approach

Test-taking skills

Writing opportunities

Thinking beyond the GED
-------------- next part --------------
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From mariecora at gmail.com  Tue Sep 16 10:00:29 2008
From: mariecora at gmail.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:00:29 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1424]  Seeking spelling programs
Message-ID: <456aed460809160700s2ce23652ub71b0bc323c8c2ee@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

Because I need to keep this Discussion List on-topic, please respond
off-list to Emma if you have suggestions for her regarding spelling
programs.  Her contact information is below.

Thanks,

Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator

**********************************************

Great discussion- this is helping me to plan a spelling program for some ESL
students. I would appreciate the names of specific spelling programs that
include all of these tasks.
Thanks in advance.
emma

Emma Bourassa
English as a Second or Additional Language/ Teaching English as a Second
Language Instructor ESL Department Thompson Rivers University 900 McGill
Road. P.O. Box 3010 Kamloops, B.C. V2C 5N3
(250) 371-5895
fax 371-5514
ebourassa at tru.ca

***************************************

>From the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development
commissioned by The Center for the Future of Teaching and Learning

Bonita Grossen, Research Associate with The National Center to Improve the
Tools of Educators

Phonemic awareness is the ability to segment words and syllables into
constituent sounds units, or phonemes. Converging evidence from all the
research centers shows that deficits in phonemic awareness reflect the core
deficit in reading difficulties. These deficits are characterized by
difficulties in segmenting syllables and words into constituent sound units
called phonemes--in short, there is a difficulty in turning spelling into
sounds.

Lack of phonemic awareness seems to be a major obstacle to learning to read
(Vellutino & Scanlon, 1987a; Wagner & Torgeson, 1987). This is true for any
language, even Chinese. About two in five children have some level of
difficulty with phonemic awareness. For about one in five children phonemic
awareness does not develop or improve over time. These children never catch
up, but fall further and further behind in reading and in all academic
subjects (Fletcher, et al., 1994; Shaywitz, Escobar, Shaywitz, Fletcher, &
Makuch, 1992; Stanovich, 1986; Stanovich & Siegel,1994).

Instruction using the following types of phonemic awareness tasks has had a
positive effect on reading acquisition and spelling for pre-readers:
rhyming, auditorily discriminating sounds that are different, blending
spoken sounds into words, word-to-word matching, isolating sounds in words,
counting phonemes, segmenting spoken words into sounds, deleting sounds from
words (Ball & Blachman, 1991; Byrne & Fielding-Barnsley, 1990; Cunningham,
1990; Foorman, Francis, Beeler, Winikates, & Fletcher, in press; Lie, 1991;
Lundberg, Frost, & Petersen, 1988; Vellutino & Scanlon, 1987b; Yopp, 1988).
Explicit instruction in how segmentation and blending are involved in the
reading process was superior to instruction that did not explicitly teach
the children to apply phonemic awareness to reading (Cunningham, 1990).
Kindergarten children with explicit instruction in phonemic awareness did
better than a group of first graders who had no instruction, indicating that
this crucial pre-skill for reading can be taught at least by age five and is
not developmental (Cunningham, 1990).

In a study by Ball and Blachman (1991), seven weeks of explicit instruction
in phonemic awareness combined with explicit instruction in sound-spelling
correspondences for kindergarten children was more powerful than instruction
in sound-spelling correspondences alone and more powerful than language
activities in improving reading skills.

*Joy Hunder*

joy.hunder at losttech.com

***********************************

A definition in Unlocking Literacy, Marcia K. Henry, 2003, Paul H. Brooks
Publishing Co., may prove helpful.

"The term phonological awareness is generally used to indicate awareness of
and facility with all levels of the speech sound system, including word
boundaries, stress patterns, syllable patterns, onset rime units, and
phonemes. "Phonemic awareness, the most advanced level of phonological
awareness, requires the conscious awareness of individual phonemes in a
given word, along with the ability to manipulate these sounds."

Anyone with an interest in this subject will find the cited publication not
only useful for teaching but fun to read.

I have found students grasping reading and spelling skills when they
understand how the 26 alphabet letters combine to produce 44 sounds. More
information can be garnered from the International Dyslexia Association.
Educators Publishing Service, Inc. and Academic Therapy are sources for easy
to use materials.

Lucille Cuttler
l.cuttler at comcast.net
-------------- next part --------------
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From mariecora at gmail.com  Thu Sep 18 09:41:29 2008
From: mariecora at gmail.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 09:41:29 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1425] Re: Thurs/Fri Discussion on Working with Youth
In-Reply-To: <456aed460809160653m10c20b25icd18ae7d453125ee@mail.gmail.com>
References: <456aed460809160653m10c20b25icd18ae7d453125ee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <456aed460809180641v5db0bd71h3bba4bbbea9a91ae@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone,

Today and tomorrow, subscriber Stephanie Korber will be available to further
discuss how her program uses various resources and methods to assess the
young adult students who attend.  Stephanie notes that there is a heavy
emphasis on looking at reading skills, particularly below the 6th grade
level.

Just so we have somewhat of a structure for our discussion, let's focus on
diagnostic assessment today, and tomorrow we can focus on formative
assessment.

I have a few questions to start us off:

Stephanie - can you tell us what other skills areas are looked at when the
student enters the program, and what resources you might use to assess those
skills?

Subscribers:  please share your own resources and methods for diagnostic
assessment with this population.  Please send your questions for Stephanie
now.

Everyone:  what do you find are the main differences in assessing younger
and older adults:  are there any?  If so, what are they?  How do you
address/respond to these differences?

Thanks and looking forward to the discussion.

Marie



On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 9:53 AM, Marie Cora <mariecora at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
>
>
>
> Subscriber Stephanie Korber has agreed to be available this Thursday and
> Friday to share more about the work that her programs does with Young
> Adults/Youth.  Stephanie's original post from last Monday and the email
> she sent out shortly thereafter with a list of resources that are regularly
> used with this population are pasted below for your convenience.
>
>
>
> Please join us Thursday and Friday (September 18 and 19) to learn more
> about the Center for Literacy, Inc., their Youth Education services, and
> activities they use for diagnostic purposes.
>
>
>
> Please also share your own work with Young Adults ? this important realm of
> adult education is growing and I understand that more and more programs are
> adding components to work specifically with this population.
>
>
>
> I can produce a transcript of the discussion and a comprehensive list of
> any resources shared that can then be accessed by subscribers (and others
> interested in working with youth and literacy).
>
>
>
> Thanks ? and looking forward to our discussion,
>
>
>
> Marie
>
>
>
> Marie Cora
>
> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>
>
>
> *********************************************************************
>
>
>
> Good Morning!  We run multiple similar programs for the same age group
> with the same literacy levels here in Philadelphia.  We find that
> assessment of reading skills below a sixth grade level is extremely
> important in order to provide instruction based on the needs of the
> individual, as some will need intensive instruction in the foundational
> reading skills that might not be accurately assessed using the TABE (though
> we use the TABE for placement and grade level gain increase).  For
> diagnostic purposes we use the Woodcock Johnson Diagnostic Reading Battery.
> It is a time intensive test (one-on-one administration taking just under 2
> hours per student) and you must have the appropriate qualifications to order
> and administer it, but we've found that it provides our instructors with
> invaluable information about the specific needs of each learner including
> their silent reading comprehension vs. oral reading comprehension, ability
> to decode, rate of fluency, reading vocabulary vs. oral vocabulary, etc.  It
> takes about the same time to administer as a qualitative reading inventory
> (QRI).
>
>
>
> Our teachers use a broad range of materials and strategies for instruction.
> In all fairness, I must tell you that we hire certified reading specialists
> to work with this population.  They have been trained to address the needs
> of this target population so they come with a repertoire of strategies and
> ideas for materials.  I can send you a list of things we commonly use if
> you'll send me your email address.  They include the Bluford series of
> young adult fiction (low readability, high interest), Wild Side Series, News
> for You (New Readers Press), and more.  Also, I teach an online course
> through ProLiteracy Worldwide that addressing strategies and materials for
> young adults.  The next offering will be in October, if you are
> interested.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Stephanie
>
>
>
> Stephanie Korber
>
> Director of Youth Education
>
> Center for Literacy, Inc.
>
> 636 S. 48th Street
>
> Philadelphia, PA 19143
>
> 215 474 1235 ext. 270 & 219
>
> korber at centerforliteracy.org
>
>
>
> *********************************************************************
>
>
>
> E3 Center Activities/Teaching Strategies/Programs
>
> **
>
> *Playing with sounds (phonemic awareness)/Decoding/Word recognition:*
>
>
>
> AbeCeDarien: www.abcdrp.com
>
> Strong Learning Centers Phonics card games www.stronglearning.com or
> 1-888-3-STRONG
>
> LindaMood-Bell: http://www.lindamoodbell.com/
>
> REWARDS program: available through Sopris West at
> http://www.sopriswest.com/
>
> Echo/Choral reading
>
> Ability to delete, substitute, blend and identify sounds/syllables in
> isolation
>
> Word building through phonics tiles/reading rods/phonics blocks (including
> non-real words)
>
> Word sorting by phoneme (i.e. words with long e sound ee, ea, e consonant
> e)
>
> Spelling patterns (*Month by Month Phonics for Upper Grades* by P.
> Cunningham and D. Hall)
>
> Direct instruction in syllabication
>
> Direct instruction on prefixes, suffixes and roots (including chunking
> unfamiliar words)
>
> Context clues
>
>
>
> *Fluency building:*
>
>
>
> Quick Reads: http://www.quickreads.org/<http://mail.centerforliteracy.org/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.quickreads.org/>
>
> Reading with expression
>
> Dictation exercises
>
> Sight word practice
>
> Regular tapings of reading with immediate feedback
>
> Charting reading progress through timed reading activities calculating
> words per minute
>
> Echo/Choral reading
>
> Independent reading
>
> * *
>
> *Vocabulary building:*
>
> * *
>
> Vocabulary comics, personal dictionary
>
> Cloze activities
>
> Pre-reading vocabulary discussion
>
> Prefixes, suffixes
>
> Latin or Greek root
>
> Synonyms, antonyms, homonyms
>
> Dictionary practice, expressing definition in own words, and practice using
> word
>
> Prosody
>
>
>
> *Comprehension:*
>
>
>
> Activating prior knowledge, predicting, questioning, connecting to text,
> summarizing,
>
> identifying main idea and details, understanding author's purpose, point of
> view, fact or opinion
>
> Tellbacks (verbal, written, oral)
>
> Modeling Think Alouds/Developing self-monitoring skills
>
> Graphic Organizers
>
> Visualizing/Guided Imagery
>
> Text rendering
>
> Skimming
>
> Think-Pair-Share
>
> Character Analysis
>
> Higher level thinking (evaluative, inferences, making connections to own
> life, etc)
>
>
>
> *Writing/Spelling:*
>
>
>
> Target Spelling by Steck Vaughn: http://steckvaughn.harcourtachieve.com/
>
> AVKO Sequential Spelling: www.avko.org
>
> Fast write
>
> Regular journal (including dialogue journal with peers or instructor)
>
>
>
> *Use of technology:*
>
> * *
>
> Typing practice (free programs found online, including
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/typing/)
>
> TV 411: www.TV411.org <http://www.tv411.org/>
>
> Publisher
>
> HeadSprout: www.headsprout.com
>
> Earobics: www.earobics.com
>
>
>
> *Additional materials used: *
>
> * *
>
> *Bluford Series* by Townsend Press
>
> *News for You*, published weekly by New Readers Press
>
> *True Stories* by Sandra Heyer
>
> *Critical **Reading** Series* by Jamestown Publishers
>
> *Words Their Way* by Merrill/Prentice Hall
>
> http://www.literacyconnections.com/WordsTheirWay.php<http://mail.centerforliteracy.org/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.literacyconnections.com/WordsTheirWay.php>.
>
>
> *Reading Reflex* by Carmen and Geoffrey McGuinness (AbeCeDarien is
> extension of approach)
>
> *A Non-Textbook, Non-workbook Approach to Teaching Language Arts (Grades
> 4-8)* by James T. Charnock<http://www.amazon.com/s/105-3329271-7356462?ie=UTF8&index=books&rank=-relevance%2C%2Bavailability%2C-daterank&field-author-exact=Charnock%2C%20James%20T.>
>
> Real life materials (menus, catalogs, newspapers, etc)
>
> Scrabble
>
> Movies: Educating Rita, Stand and Deliver, Dangerous Minds, The Ron Clark
> Story, Follow My Leader, Coach Carter, Take the Lead, Lean on Me, Mr.
> Holland's Opus, To Sir With Love, Dead Poet's Society, The Emperor's Club
>
> * *
>
> *Themes observed:*
>
>
>
> Encouraging active readers
>
> Self-monitoring/self evaluation
>
> Inquiry!!
>
> Reinforcing and building on skills students already possess
>
> Transferring fluency skills (intonation, flow, use of punctuation, pace,
> etc.) to internal voice for silent reading
>
> Honoring learning styles through multi-sensory approach
>
> Test-taking skills
>
> Writing opportunities
>
> Thinking beyond the GED
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From teacherwendyq at gmail.com  Thu Sep 18 11:45:09 2008
From: teacherwendyq at gmail.com (Wendy Quinones)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:45:09 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1426] Re: Thurs/Fri Discussion on Working with Youth
In-Reply-To: <456aed460809180641v5db0bd71h3bba4bbbea9a91ae@mail.gmail.com>
References: <456aed460809160653m10c20b25icd18ae7d453125ee@mail.gmail.com>
	<456aed460809180641v5db0bd71h3bba4bbbea9a91ae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ad2cc1ef0809180845t3322e997t16bcedfaea327faa@mail.gmail.com>

This is a topic of particular interest for me, as I am teaching GED this
year.  This class always has more young adults than others, and I
particularly dislike working with them -- the younger they are, the less I
like it!  After all, I entered ADULT education for a reason.

I find the best ways for a quick reading assessment is oral reading followed
by comprehension questions.  Somebody who stumbles badly in oral reading
will be at best a slow reader and probably lose a lot of comprehension;
somebody who's a whiz at oral reading can still miss meaning.  Our classes
are leveled, so I shouldn't have anyone below 6th grade this year; last year
all my students were.  When we can, we use the DAR, but it is time-consuming
and often neither students nor teachers have the time to give it or the
training to know what to do with the results.  Nevertheless, the
NIFL Assessment Strategies and Reading Profiles website is useful:
http://www.nifl.gov/readingprofiles/

My question is, are there other methods that are useful to time-stressed,
relatively untrained teachers like me?

Wendy Quinones

On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 9:41 AM, Marie Cora <mariecora at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> Today and tomorrow, subscriber Stephanie Korber will be available to
> further discuss how her program uses various resources and methods to assess
> the young adult students who attend.  Stephanie notes that there is a heavy
> emphasis on looking at reading skills, particularly below the 6th grade
> level.
>
> Just so we have somewhat of a structure for our discussion, let's focus on
> diagnostic assessment today, and tomorrow we can focus on formative
> assessment.
>
> I have a few questions to start us off:
>
> Stephanie - can you tell us what other skills areas are looked at when the
> student enters the program, and what resources you might use to assess those
> skills?
>
> Subscribers:  please share your own resources and methods for diagnostic
> assessment with this population.  Please send your questions for Stephanie
> now.
>
> Everyone:  what do you find are the main differences in assessing younger
> and older adults:  are there any?  If so, what are they?  How do you
> address/respond to these differences?
>
> Thanks and looking forward to the discussion.
>
> Marie
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 9:53 AM, Marie Cora <mariecora at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>  Dear Colleagues,
>>
>>
>>
>> Subscriber Stephanie Korber has agreed to be available this Thursday and
>> Friday to share more about the work that her programs does with Young
>> Adults/Youth.  Stephanie's original post from last Monday and the email
>> she sent out shortly thereafter with a list of resources that are regularly
>> used with this population are pasted below for your convenience.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please join us Thursday and Friday (September 18 and 19) to learn more
>> about the Center for Literacy, Inc., their Youth Education services, and
>> activities they use for diagnostic purposes.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please also share your own work with Young Adults ? this important realm
>> of adult education is growing and I understand that more and more programs
>> are adding components to work specifically with this population.
>>
>>
>>
>> I can produce a transcript of the discussion and a comprehensive list of
>> any resources shared that can then be accessed by subscribers (and others
>> interested in working with youth and literacy).
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks ? and looking forward to our discussion,
>>
>>
>>
>> Marie
>>
>>
>>
>> Marie Cora
>>
>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>>
>>
>>
>> *********************************************************************
>>
>>
>>
>> Good Morning!  We run multiple similar programs for the same age group
>> with the same literacy levels here in Philadelphia.  We find that
>> assessment of reading skills below a sixth grade level is extremely
>> important in order to provide instruction based on the needs of the
>> individual, as some will need intensive instruction in the foundational
>> reading skills that might not be accurately assessed using the TABE (though
>> we use the TABE for placement and grade level gain increase).  For
>> diagnostic purposes we use the Woodcock Johnson Diagnostic Reading Battery.
>> It is a time intensive test (one-on-one administration taking just under 2
>> hours per student) and you must have the appropriate qualifications to order
>> and administer it, but we've found that it provides our instructors with
>> invaluable information about the specific needs of each learner including
>> their silent reading comprehension vs. oral reading comprehension, ability
>> to decode, rate of fluency, reading vocabulary vs. oral vocabulary, etc.
>> It takes about the same time to administer as a qualitative reading
>> inventory (QRI).
>>
>>
>>
>> Our teachers use a broad range of materials and strategies for
>> instruction.  In all fairness, I must tell you that we hire certified
>> reading specialists to work with this population.  They have been trained
>> to address the needs of this target population so they come with a
>> repertoire of strategies and ideas for materials.  I can send you a list
>> of things we commonly use if you'll send me your email address.  They
>> include the Bluford series of young adult fiction (low readability, high
>> interest), Wild Side Series, News for You (New Readers Press), and more.
>> Also, I teach an online course through ProLiteracy Worldwide that
>> addressing strategies and materials for young adults.  The next offering
>> will be in October, if you are interested.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Stephanie
>>
>>
>>
>> Stephanie Korber
>>
>> Director of Youth Education
>>
>> Center for Literacy, Inc.
>>
>> 636 S. 48th Street
>>
>> Philadelphia, PA 19143
>>
>> 215 474 1235 ext. 270 & 219
>>
>> korber at centerforliteracy.org
>>
>>
>>
>> *********************************************************************
>>
>>
>>
>> E3 Center Activities/Teaching Strategies/Programs
>>
>> **
>>
>> *Playing with sounds (phonemic awareness)/Decoding/Word recognition:*
>>
>>
>>
>> AbeCeDarien: www.abcdrp.com
>>
>> Strong Learning Centers Phonics card games www.stronglearning.com or
>> 1-888-3-STRONG
>>
>> LindaMood-Bell: http://www.lindamoodbell.com/
>>
>> REWARDS program: available through Sopris West at
>> http://www.sopriswest.com/
>>
>> Echo/Choral reading
>>
>> Ability to delete, substitute, blend and identify sounds/syllables in
>> isolation
>>
>> Word building through phonics tiles/reading rods/phonics blocks (including
>> non-real words)
>>
>> Word sorting by phoneme (i.e. words with long e sound ee, ea, e consonant
>> e)
>>
>> Spelling patterns (*Month by Month Phonics for Upper Grades* by P.
>> Cunningham and D. Hall)
>>
>> Direct instruction in syllabication
>>
>> Direct instruction on prefixes, suffixes and roots (including chunking
>> unfamiliar words)
>>
>> Context clues
>>
>>
>>
>> *Fluency building:*
>>
>>
>>
>> Quick Reads: http://www.quickreads.org/<http://mail.centerforliteracy.org/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.quickreads.org/>
>>
>> Reading with expression
>>
>> Dictation exercises
>>
>> Sight word practice
>>
>> Regular tapings of reading with immediate feedback
>>
>> Charting reading progress through timed reading activities calculating
>> words per minute
>>
>> Echo/Choral reading
>>
>> Independent reading
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *Vocabulary building:*
>>
>> * *
>>
>> Vocabulary comics, personal dictionary
>>
>> Cloze activities
>>
>> Pre-reading vocabulary discussion
>>
>> Prefixes, suffixes
>>
>> Latin or Greek root
>>
>> Synonyms, antonyms, homonyms
>>
>> Dictionary practice, expressing definition in own words, and practice
>> using word
>>
>> Prosody
>>
>>
>>
>> *Comprehension:*
>>
>>
>>
>> Activating prior knowledge, predicting, questioning, connecting to text,
>> summarizing,
>>
>> identifying main idea and details, understanding author's purpose, point
>> of view, fact or opinion
>>
>> Tellbacks (verbal, written, oral)
>>
>> Modeling Think Alouds/Developing self-monitoring skills
>>
>> Graphic Organizers
>>
>> Visualizing/Guided Imagery
>>
>> Text rendering
>>
>> Skimming
>>
>> Think-Pair-Share
>>
>> Character Analysis
>>
>> Higher level thinking (evaluative, inferences, making connections to own
>> life, etc)
>>
>>
>>
>> *Writing/Spelling:*
>>
>>
>>
>> Target Spelling by Steck Vaughn: http://steckvaughn.harcourtachieve.com/
>>
>> AVKO Sequential Spelling: www.avko.org
>>
>> Fast write
>>
>> Regular journal (including dialogue journal with peers or instructor)
>>
>>
>>
>> *Use of technology:*
>>
>> * *
>>
>> Typing practice (free programs found online, including
>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/typing/)
>>
>> TV 411: www.TV411.org <http://www.tv411.org/>
>>
>> Publisher
>>
>> HeadSprout: www.headsprout.com
>>
>> Earobics: www.earobics.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *Additional materials used: *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *Bluford Series* by Townsend Press
>>
>> *News for You*, published weekly by New Readers Press
>>
>> *True Stories* by Sandra Heyer
>>
>> *Critical **Reading** Series* by Jamestown Publishers
>>
>> *Words Their Way* by Merrill/Prentice Hall
>>
>> http://www.literacyconnections.com/WordsTheirWay.php<http://mail.centerforliteracy.org/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.literacyconnections.com/WordsTheirWay.php>.
>>
>>
>> *Reading Reflex* by Carmen and Geoffrey McGuinness (AbeCeDarien is
>> extension of approach)
>>
>> *A Non-Textbook, Non-workbook Approach to Teaching Language Arts (Grades
>> 4-8)* by James T. Charnock<http://www.amazon.com/s/105-3329271-7356462?ie=UTF8&index=books&rank=-relevance%2C%2Bavailability%2C-daterank&field-author-exact=Charnock%2C%20James%20T.>
>>
>> Real life materials (menus, catalogs, newspapers, etc)
>>
>> Scrabble
>>
>> Movies: Educating Rita, Stand and Deliver, Dangerous Minds, The Ron Clark
>> Story, Follow My Leader, Coach Carter, Take the Lead, Lean on Me, Mr.
>> Holland's Opus, To Sir With Love, Dead Poet's Society, The Emperor's Club
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *Themes observed:*
>>
>>
>>
>> Encouraging active readers
>>
>> Self-monitoring/self evaluation
>>
>> Inquiry!!
>>
>> Reinforcing and building on skills students already possess
>>
>> Transferring fluency skills (intonation, flow, use of punctuation, pace,
>> etc.) to internal voice for silent reading
>>
>> Honoring learning styles through multi-sensory approach
>>
>> Test-taking skills
>>
>> Writing opportunities
>>
>> Thinking beyond the GED
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to teacherwendyq at gmail.com
>
>
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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Mon Sep 22 09:29:40 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:29:40 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1427]  Discussion on Youth and Literacy
Message-ID: <034101c91cb7$448d3eb0$0302a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi everyone,

 

I'm so sorry:  we seem to be experiencing technical difficulties and so only
a couple of emails focused on this topic have gotten posted.  I am working
on this now and hope to have the tech issues sorted through so a few other
posts can be put through.  Thanks for your patience!

 

 

Marie

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From kbeall at onlyinternet.net  Mon Sep 22 08:31:50 2008
From: kbeall at onlyinternet.net (Kaye Beall)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:31:50 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1428]  Registration ends Friday for Online Course
Message-ID: <DA8E5737C4FA44F8ACB2439EE7D7D560@D14J7YD1>

Registration ends for this online professional development opportunity on
September 29, 2008. The course lessons include an introduction to rubrics;
participants also have an opportunity to create their own rubrics.

Adult Multiple Intelligences and Differentiated Instruction

Course Dates: October 13?December 12, 2008; Online chats during Lessons 3,
4, and 5

Course Description 
Research conducted by the National Center for the Study of Adult Learning
and Literacy shows that instructional practices inspired by Multiple
Intelligences (MI) theory resulted in high levels of authentic instruction
and student engagement. 

Integrate your understanding of Multiple Intelligences (MI) theory with the
power of differentiated instruction in this facilitated, eight-session
course. You?ll learn how to apply MI theory and differentiate instruction
for all levels of adult basic education and English for speakers of other
languages. The facilitator will guide you as you develop your own MI-based
lessons. 

Objectives 

Upon completion of this course you will be able to:

  *Apply the theory of multiple intelligences (MI) to design learning
activities that match your learning objectives 

  *Use varying methods of differentiated instruction (DI) that address the
different skills and interests of your learners

  *Apply knowledge of your own MI profile to your classroom teaching

  *Produce and reflect on a lesson or unit using both MI and DI 

Required Text: 

Viens, Julie and Silja Kallenbach. Multiple Intelligences and Adult
Literacy: A Sourcebook for Practitioners. (New York: Teachers College Press,
2004. Copies of the required textbook can be obtained from the publisher,
Teachers College Press (TCP), the publisher at
http://store.tcpress.com/0807743461.shtml. The cost is $27.95 per
copy.Bottom of Form

Course Format and Schedule: facilitated, online 
During this eight-week course, you will engage in self-paced activities and
readings, as well as asynchronous discussions with the facilitators and
course participants. Three synchronous chats will be scheduled during
Lessons 3, 4, and 5.  

Course Overview: Download at
http://professionalstudiesae.worlded.org/pdf/midi_overview.pdf. 

Course Facilitator: Wendy Qui?ones 

Estimated Completion Time: 40 hours

Fee: $249.00 (negotiated group rates available)

Registration: Complete and return the registration form, which you can
download at http://professionalstudiesae.worlded.org/pdf/midi_reg.pdf.
Payment must be received prior to enrollment. Registration is limited to 20
participants.

Cancellation policy: World Education reserves the right to cancel the course
if the minimum number of registrants is not met by September 29, 2008.

 

Kaye Beall

Project Director

World Education

6760 West Street

Linn Grove, IN 46711

765-717-3942

kaye_beall at worlded.org

www.worlded.org

 

 

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From kbeall at onlyinternet.net  Mon Sep 22 08:45:20 2008
From: kbeall at onlyinternet.net (Kaye Beall)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:45:20 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1429]  New Issue of Change Agent
Message-ID: <ACB14E7EFD2C4D2886C3DDC8D8B9A230@D14J7YD1>

ANNOUNCING - The September 2008 issue of The Change Agent -- "Making Sense
of Climate Change"

A deeper understanding of global warming, reasons for hope, actions you can
take, opportunities for justice - these are just some of the reasons to
bring the current issue of The Change Agent into your ABE or ESOL classroom.

This issue offers 60 pages of short articles, illustrations, cartoons, math
lessons, and quizzes to break down the science, economics, and everyday
effects of global warming. 

Learn about greenhouse gases, energy-saving tricks that also save money,
green jobs, justice-based solutions to climate change, and how adult
learners are teaching their kids about conservation, saying no to junk mail,
and lobbying their mayors to do more for the environment. As one Hurricane
Katrina survivor reminds us, hope comes from "learning more about a problem
and participating directly in the solution." This idea - that understanding
and participation are at the root of hopefulness - is a central theme in
this issue's articles, graphics, and lesson plans.

Visit the web site at www.nelrc.org/changeagent for information on how to
subscribe.

SUPPORT THE ONGOING WORK of The Change Agent to make social justice part of
the adult education classroom.

Thank you.
Cynthia Peters
cpeters at worlded.org 
617-482-9485

************

 

 

Kaye Beall

Project Director

World Education

6760 West Street

Linn Grove, IN 46711

765-717-3942

kaye_beall at worlded.org

www.worlded.org

 

 

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From korber at centerforliteracy.org  Mon Sep 22 15:22:28 2008
From: korber at centerforliteracy.org (Stephanie Korber)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 15:22:28 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1430] Re: Discussion on Youth and Literacy
Message-ID: <7375733BB3CB8E438B091C915DB00ADF4D1A2C@cflexchange.centerforliteracy.org>

First, I want to apologize to everyone for entering in this discussion
so late.  I know the intended days to discuss youth were Thursday and
Friday.  Unfortunately, there was a technical problem on my end, but
that has now been resolved.  I'd like to take this opportunity to
respond to some of the posts from those two days.
 
Question from Marie - Other assessments used for youth in our programs?
Response - Many of our youth programs are in collaboration with other
youth serving providers.  Examples include Philadelphia's Employment,
Education and Empowerment (E3) Centers, accelerated high schools,
traditional high schools, and specialized programs developed by the
School District of Philadelphia.  The most common assessment used is the
TABE Reading and Math (for placement and progress), though one program
uses the STAR computerized reading program (mainly cloze activities to
score reading level).  Our literacy specialists, as mentioned in a
previous post, also use the Woodcock Johnson Diagnostic Reading Battery
for identifying specific foundational skill needs in reading
instruction.  We are starting a new program at one of our comprehensive
high schools, and at that site will be using the Gates-MacGinitie
assessment.  In many of our programs we are fortunate to have one-on-one
assessment time built in.  We have found this to be an important
component when offering reading instruction, particularly for those
reading below the 6th grade level (according to TABE).
 
Wendy wrote -  I find the best ways for a quick reading assessment is
oral reading followed by comprehension questions. Somebody who stumbles
badly in oral reading 
will be at best a slow reader and probably lose a lot of comprehension;
somebody who's a whiz at oral reading can still miss meaning. Our
classes 
are leveled, so I shouldn't have anyone below 6th grade this year; last
year all my students were. When we can, we use the DAR, but it is
time-consuming and often neither students nor teachers have the time to
give it or the training to know what to do with the results.
Nevertheless, the NIFL Assessment Strategies and Reading Profiles
website is useful: http://www.nifl.gov/readingprofiles/ 

My question is, are there other methods that are useful to
time-stressed, relatively untrained teachers like me?
 
Lots to say here Wendy, and I hope some of it is useful, though I'll
tell you upfront that I don't have a silver bullet in response to your
question:
 
1.	The assessments used on the reading profiles section on NIFL are
similar to those found on the WCJ-DRB.  They measure the similar
components of reading.  Unfortunately, the best way to determine why
someone is reading below a 6th grade level (hence the skills that need
to be addressed in instruction) is to complete a variety of assessments.
I know this is cost-intensive for smaller programs who might not have
the resources to purchase assessments, pay for human resources, train
volunteers, etc.  My issue with the TABE is that it may tell you that a
person is reading below a 6th grade level, but doesn't tell you why
(comprehension, word recognition issues, challenges with decoding,
limited vocabulary, etc.)  It also only gives a silent reading comp
level and not an oral reading comp level.  As an aside, on the LD
list-serv they are talking about the C-TOPP (Comprehensive Test of
Phonological Processing).  This assessment will address the phonemic
awareness skills discussed in previous posts on this list (phoneme
blending, segmenting, isolating, etc.)  
2.	For those over a sixth grade level on the TABE - I wouldn't
necessarily use the aforementioned assessments.
3.	Listening to a learner read to determine instructional needs is
most effective when using leveled texts and the listener (teacher) knows
what to listen for - common miscues (ie. lack of work recognition,
inability to decode, not pausing appropriately, can't answer literal,
inferential or analytical comprehension questions.)  If you listen to a
learner read, but the text is way above their instructional level, it is
more difficult to determine what specific skills to remediate.  Also,
this will frustrate the learner.  A QRI (qualitative reading inventory
would be a good informal assessment tool) and tutors could be trained on
how to administer it and what to do with the information gleaned from
the results.  
 
Let me stop there and see if additional questions arise.  Also, if I can
add clarity to this long response, please let me know.
 
Best,
Stephanie
 
Stephanie Korber
Director of Youth Education
Center for Literacy, Inc.
636 S. 48th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19143
215 474 1235 ext. 270 & 219
korber at centerforliteracy.org
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:30 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1427] Discussion on Youth and Literacy
 
Hi everyone,
 
I'm so sorry:  we seem to be experiencing technical difficulties and so
only a couple of emails focused on this topic have gotten posted.  I am
working on this now and hope to have the tech issues sorted through so a
few other posts can be put through.  Thanks for your patience!
 
 
Marie
 
 
Marie Cora, Moderator
Assessment Discussion List 
National Institute for Literacy 
Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
Coordinator of Assessment  
Program Planning Resource Collection
National Institute for Literacy 
Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html
 
 
 
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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Thu Sep 25 13:50:34 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 13:50:34 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1431] Re: Discussion on Youth and Literacy
In-Reply-To: <7375733BB3CB8E438B091C915DB00ADF4D1A2C@cflexchange.centerforliteracy.org>
Message-ID: <012f01c91f37$36405d60$0302a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi Stephanie,

 

Thank you so much for sharing this.  You really do have a comprehensive
approach to assessing the students in your program.  It's so important that
your program provides training in these tools and also the time to use the
tools with students effectively.  

 

I note that Wendy's questions focus on the lack of time and training, and I
know that this is also an issue for many programs.

 

Stephanie - do you know if these components of your program - staff training
and built-in assessment time - were written into the requirements of your
program's proposal to the funder?  I ask because I wonder how programs might
start to strategize how they could garner more resources on the diagnostic
(formative) side of assessment.  So much time and energy (and money!) goes
into the summative side of assessment.  

 

And to everyone:  do people have strategies for getting more diagnostic data
from students, despite lack of time and resources?  Do you set aside time
for doing different diagnostic assessments, or do you include on-going
diagnostics within classes themselves?

 

It seems like what Stephanie describes in #3 below might be things that
people could try.

 

What do you think?

 

Marie

 

Marie Cora

Assessment Discussion List Moderator

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Stephanie Korber
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 3:22 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1430] Re: Discussion on Youth and Literacy

 

First, I want to apologize to everyone for entering in this discussion so
late.  I know the intended days to discuss youth were Thursday and Friday.
Unfortunately, there was a technical problem on my end, but that has now
been resolved.  I'd like to take this opportunity to respond to some of the
posts from those two days.

 

Question from Marie - Other assessments used for youth in our programs?

Response - Many of our youth programs are in collaboration with other youth
serving providers.  Examples include Philadelphia's Employment, Education
and Empowerment (E3) Centers, accelerated high schools, traditional high
schools, and specialized programs developed by the School District of
Philadelphia.  The most common assessment used is the TABE Reading and Math
(for placement and progress), though one program uses the STAR computerized
reading program (mainly cloze activities to score reading level).  Our
literacy specialists, as mentioned in a previous post, also use the Woodcock
Johnson Diagnostic Reading Battery for identifying specific foundational
skill needs in reading instruction.  We are starting a new program at one of
our comprehensive high schools, and at that site will be using the
Gates-MacGinitie assessment.  In many of our programs we are fortunate to
have one-on-one assessment time built in.  We have found this to be an
important component when offering reading instruction, particularly for
those reading below the 6th grade level (according to TABE).

 

Wendy wrote -  I find the best ways for a quick reading assessment is oral
reading followed by comprehension questions. Somebody who stumbles badly in
oral reading 
will be at best a slow reader and probably lose a lot of comprehension;
somebody who's a whiz at oral reading can still miss meaning. Our classes 
are leveled, so I shouldn't have anyone below 6th grade this year; last year
all my students were. When we can, we use the DAR, but it is time-consuming
and often neither students nor teachers have the time to give it or the
training to know what to do with the results. Nevertheless, the NIFL
Assessment Strategies and Reading Profiles website is useful:
http://www.nifl.gov/readingprofiles/ 

My question is, are there other methods that are useful to time-stressed,
relatively untrained teachers like me?

 

Lots to say here Wendy, and I hope some of it is useful, though I'll tell
you upfront that I don't have a silver bullet in response to your question:

 

1.       The assessments used on the reading profiles section on NIFL are
similar to those found on the WCJ-DRB.  They measure the similar components
of reading.  Unfortunately, the best way to determine why someone is reading
below a 6th grade level (hence the skills that need to be addressed in
instruction) is to complete a variety of assessments.  I know this is
cost-intensive for smaller programs who might not have the resources to
purchase assessments, pay for human resources, train volunteers, etc.  My
issue with the TABE is that it may tell you that a person is reading below a
6th grade level, but doesn't tell you why (comprehension, word recognition
issues, challenges with decoding, limited vocabulary, etc.)  It also only
gives a silent reading comp level and not an oral reading comp level.  As an
aside, on the LD list-serv they are talking about the C-TOPP (Comprehensive
Test of Phonological Processing).  This assessment will address the phonemic
awareness skills discussed in previous posts on this list (phoneme blending,
segmenting, isolating, etc.)  

2.       For those over a sixth grade level on the TABE - I wouldn't
necessarily use the aforementioned assessments.

3.       Listening to a learner read to determine instructional needs is
most effective when using leveled texts and the listener (teacher) knows
what to listen for - common miscues (ie. lack of work recognition, inability
to decode, not pausing appropriately, can't answer literal, inferential or
analytical comprehension questions.)  If you listen to a learner read, but
the text is way above their instructional level, it is more difficult to
determine what specific skills to remediate.  Also, this will frustrate the
learner.  A QRI (qualitative reading inventory would be a good informal
assessment tool) and tutors could be trained on how to administer it and
what to do with the information gleaned from the results.  

 

Let me stop there and see if additional questions arise.  Also, if I can add
clarity to this long response, please let me know.

 

Best,

Stephanie

 

Stephanie Korber

Director of Youth Education

Center for Literacy, Inc.

636 S. 48th Street

Philadelphia, PA 19143

215 474 1235 ext. 270 & 219

korber at centerforliteracy.org

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:30 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1427] Discussion on Youth and Literacy

 

Hi everyone,

 

I'm so sorry:  we seem to be experiencing technical difficulties and so only
a couple of emails focused on this topic have gotten posted.  I am working
on this now and hope to have the tech issues sorted through so a few other
posts can be put through.  Thanks for your patience!

 

 

Marie

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From tsticht at znet.com  Thu Sep 25 15:45:15 2008
From: tsticht at znet.com (tsticht at znet.com)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 12:45:15 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1432]  The "Decoding" of words, sentences,
	and paragraphs
Message-ID: <1222371915.48dbea4b283fb@webmail.znet.net>

September 25, 2008

The ?Decoding? of Words, Sentences, and Paragraphs

Tom Sticht
International Consultant in Adult Education

Much discussion of teaching using alphabetics (phonemics; phonics) aims at
learning to decode written words. Of course, this is necessary for reading.
But beyond the word are the sentence and paragraph. Fluent reading may
depend to some extent on how well people can construct sentences and
compile them into paragraphs. The question arises, do more skilled readers
develop a greater ability to construct sentences and compile them into
paragraphs?

Ordinarily word, sentence, and paragraph construction are aided by the use
of spaces between words. Sentences are marked by punctuation (capitals;
periods, etc.), and paragraphs are separated by spaces and sometimes
indentation of the first sentence in the paragraph. But how well can low
and high ability readers identify words, sentences, and paragraphs when
there is no spacing or punctuation to mark beginnings and ends of these
aspects of written language?

To find out, in an exploratory study colleagues and I worked with 16 low
reading young adults with reading skills from 3.5 to 7.7 grade levels, and
an average score of 5.5 grade level reading. We also worked with 18 college
students as high ability readers.

We prepared four paragraphs of writing by typing all the words running
together, the sentences running together, and paragraphs running together
with no spaces or punctuation. We then asked the adults to go through the
materials and place a line between each word, a dot over each line that
separated sentences, and an x through the dots that separated each
paragraph.

We found that on average the high ability readers accurately identified 99
percent of words accurately, sentences with 77 percent accuracy, and
paragraphs with 88 percent accuracy. For the low ability readers words were
identified with 77 percent accuracy, sentences with  12 percent accuracy,
and paragraphs with 19 percent accuracy.

This raises the possibility that in reading normal texts, low ability
readers may not achieve higher fluency skills in part because of a weakness
in sentence meaning construction and paragraph meaning compiling skills.
Possibly alphabetics may provide effective word recognition while whole
language teaching may foster the development of sentence and paragraph
construction and compilation abilities. These are aspects of ?decoding?
written language that I have not seen given attention in reading research,
with either children or adults.

Thomas G. Sticht, Email tsticht at aznet.net



From korber at centerforliteracy.org  Fri Sep 26 14:48:35 2008
From: korber at centerforliteracy.org (Stephanie Korber)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 14:48:35 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1432] Re: Discussion on Youth and Literacy
Message-ID: <7375733BB3CB8E438B091C915DB00ADF4D1A65@cflexchange.centerforliteracy.org>

The assessment materials are built into the budget as is the time for
staff to administer.  The other thing to consider is that different
assessments have different requirements for purchasing.  Some
assessments require evidence of tester's qualifications.  This is not
the case for informal reading inventories (such as the QRI) however.  
 
Stephanie Korber
Director of Youth Education
Center for Literacy, Inc.
636 S. 48th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19143
215 474 1235 ext. 270 & 219
korber at centerforliteracy.org
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:51 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1431] Re: Discussion on Youth and Literacy
 
Hi Stephanie,
 
Thank you so much for sharing this.  You really do have a comprehensive
approach to assessing the students in your program.  It's so important
that your program provides training in these tools and also the time to
use the tools with students effectively.  
 
I note that Wendy's questions focus on the lack of time and training,
and I know that this is also an issue for many programs.
 
Stephanie - do you know if these components of your program - staff
training and built-in assessment time - were written into the
requirements of your program's proposal to the funder?  I ask because I
wonder how programs might start to strategize how they could garner more
resources on the diagnostic (formative) side of assessment.  So much
time and energy (and money!) goes into the summative side of assessment.

 
And to everyone:  do people have strategies for getting more diagnostic
data from students, despite lack of time and resources?  Do you set
aside time for doing different diagnostic assessments, or do you include
on-going diagnostics within classes themselves?
 
It seems like what Stephanie describes in #3 below might be things that
people could try.
 
What do you think?
 
Marie
 
Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Stephanie Korber
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 3:22 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1430] Re: Discussion on Youth and Literacy
 
First, I want to apologize to everyone for entering in this discussion
so late.  I know the intended days to discuss youth were Thursday and
Friday.  Unfortunately, there was a technical problem on my end, but
that has now been resolved.  I'd like to take this opportunity to
respond to some of the posts from those two days.
 
Question from Marie - Other assessments used for youth in our programs?
Response - Many of our youth programs are in collaboration with other
youth serving providers.  Examples include Philadelphia's Employment,
Education and Empowerment (E3) Centers, accelerated high schools,
traditional high schools, and specialized programs developed by the
School District of Philadelphia.  The most common assessment used is the
TABE Reading and Math (for placement and progress), though one program
uses the STAR computerized reading program (mainly cloze activities to
score reading level).  Our literacy specialists, as mentioned in a
previous post, also use the Woodcock Johnson Diagnostic Reading Battery
for identifying specific foundational skill needs in reading
instruction.  We are starting a new program at one of our comprehensive
high schools, and at that site will be using the Gates-MacGinitie
assessment.  In many of our programs we are fortunate to have one-on-one
assessment time built in.  We have found this to be an important
component when offering reading instruction, particularly for those
reading below the 6th grade level (according to TABE).
 
Wendy wrote -  I find the best ways for a quick reading assessment is
oral reading followed by comprehension questions. Somebody who stumbles
badly in oral reading 
will be at best a slow reader and probably lose a lot of comprehension;
somebody who's a whiz at oral reading can still miss meaning. Our
classes 
are leveled, so I shouldn't have anyone below 6th grade this year; last
year all my students were. When we can, we use the DAR, but it is
time-consuming and often neither students nor teachers have the time to
give it or the training to know what to do with the results.
Nevertheless, the NIFL Assessment Strategies and Reading Profiles
website is useful: http://www.nifl.gov/readingprofiles/ 

My question is, are there other methods that are useful to
time-stressed, relatively untrained teachers like me?
 
Lots to say here Wendy, and I hope some of it is useful, though I'll
tell you upfront that I don't have a silver bullet in response to your
question:
 
1.       The assessments used on the reading profiles section on NIFL
are similar to those found on the WCJ-DRB.  They measure the similar
components of reading.  Unfortunately, the best way to determine why
someone is reading below a 6th grade level (hence the skills that need
to be addressed in instruction) is to complete a variety of assessments.
I know this is cost-intensive for smaller programs who might not have
the resources to purchase assessments, pay for human resources, train
volunteers, etc.  My issue with the TABE is that it may tell you that a
person is reading below a 6th grade level, but doesn't tell you why
(comprehension, word recognition issues, challenges with decoding,
limited vocabulary, etc.)  It also only gives a silent reading comp
level and not an oral reading comp level.  As an aside, on the LD
list-serv they are talking about the C-TOPP (Comprehensive Test of
Phonological Processing).  This assessment will address the phonemic
awareness skills discussed in previous posts on this list (phoneme
blending, segmenting, isolating, etc.)  
2.       For those over a sixth grade level on the TABE - I wouldn't
necessarily use the aforementioned assessments.
3.       Listening to a learner read to determine instructional needs is
most effective when using leveled texts and the listener (teacher) knows
what to listen for - common miscues (ie. lack of work recognition,
inability to decode, not pausing appropriately, can't answer literal,
inferential or analytical comprehension questions.)  If you listen to a
learner read, but the text is way above their instructional level, it is
more difficult to determine what specific skills to remediate.  Also,
this will frustrate the learner.  A QRI (qualitative reading inventory
would be a good informal assessment tool) and tutors could be trained on
how to administer it and what to do with the information gleaned from
the results.  
 
Let me stop there and see if additional questions arise.  Also, if I can
add clarity to this long response, please let me know.
 
Best,
Stephanie
 
Stephanie Korber
Director of Youth Education
Center for Literacy, Inc.
636 S. 48th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19143
215 474 1235 ext. 270 & 219
korber at centerforliteracy.org
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:30 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1427] Discussion on Youth and Literacy
 
Hi everyone,
 
I'm so sorry:  we seem to be experiencing technical difficulties and so
only a couple of emails focused on this topic have gotten posted.  I am
working on this now and hope to have the tech issues sorted through so a
few other posts can be put through.  Thanks for your patience!
 
 
Marie
 
 
Marie Cora, Moderator
Assessment Discussion List 
National Institute for Literacy 
Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
Coordinator of Assessment  
Program Planning Resource Collection
National Institute for Literacy 
Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html
 
 
 
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From tsticht at znet.com  Fri Sep 26 19:11:51 2008
From: tsticht at znet.com (tsticht at znet.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 16:11:51 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1433]  Where does the reading problem go?
Message-ID: <1222470711.48dd6c37d7383@webmail.znet.net>

September 26, 2008

Where does the reading problem go when children grow up?

Tom Sticht
International Consultant in Adult Education

Each year you can count on numerous reports and news articles being written
about reading education in the K-12 school system of the United States.
Without exception, these reports give the impression that we need to spend
billions of dollars more on teaching children to read earlier
(e.g.,universal preschool) and better.

But if America?s public schools aren?t doing a good job of teaching reading,
you wouldn?t know it when the children have grown up and are asked as adults
how well they read. Overwhelmingly, our nation?s adults think they read Well
or Very Well.

The 1992 National Adult Literacy Survey (NALS) asked adults to rate
their own reading skills as they perceived them. In a report on the
Literacy of Older Adults in America, from the National Center for
Education Statistics in Washington, DC, November 1996, the authors
reported (p. 43) that  adults aged 16 to 59 rated themselves as reading
Very Well-72%, Well-22% and Not Well/Not At All-7%. Overall, then, some
93% of adults in this age range rated themselves as reading Well or Very
Well.

When broken out by ethnic groups, ratings were

Whites: Very Well-77%, Well-21%, or Not Well/Not At All-3%.
Blacks:  Very Well-67%, Well-27% and Not Well/Not At All-6%.
Hispanics: Very Well-46%, Well-22% and Not Well/Not At All-32%

In this analysis, only Hispanics reported a high percentage, 32 percent, or
5.3 million adults, who thought they could not read English Well or Very
Well, no doubt reflecting the large immigrant population in this category
with less education and poorer English language skills than U.S. born
adults. Among both Blacks and Whites, poor reading appears to be a
perceived problem for only 3 to 6 percent of these populations, about 4.5
million adults in the age range 16-59.

Interestingly, when the average proficiencies of Whites and
Blacks on the NALS Prose scale were compared, it was found that for
Whites who rated themselves as reading Very Well, their average Prose
proficiency was 308, well above average, whereas for Blacks rating
themselves as reading Very Well, their Prose average proficiency
was 259, well below average.

Perhaps when children grow up and get out of the pre-K-12 world they
adapt to the ambient literacy demands of a cultural niche that they find
possible to occupy. They find jobs they can qualify for, they get
information from sources they have access to and feel comfortable in
using, and as they slip ever more firmly into their literacy niche, they
feel more and more satisfaction with their literacy skills.  Maybe this is
why so many U.S. adults think they read Well or Very Well, despite their
poor performance on literacy tests. This raises the possibility that if
they are using themselves as a standard, many adults are not able to judge
whether or not their children are learning to read Well or Very Well in
school and fail to take action on behalf of failing children.

Today, our nation?s Adult Education and Literacy System remains
marginalized, operating with an average of $820 per enrollee, including
both federal and state funds. This is less than 10 percent of what we spend
per child in the K-12 system. Strangely, though federal and state
governments have provided tens of billions of dollars in mostly failed
attempts to improve the reading skills of children, once the children grow
up their reading problems seem to go away. I wonder why?

Thomas G. Sticht
tsticht at aznet.net



From teacherwendyq at gmail.com  Sat Sep 27 11:41:55 2008
From: teacherwendyq at gmail.com (Wendy Quinones)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 11:41:55 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1434] Re: Where does the reading problem go?
In-Reply-To: <1222470711.48dd6c37d7383@webmail.znet.net>
References: <1222470711.48dd6c37d7383@webmail.znet.net>
Message-ID: <ad2cc1ef0809270841g214cb2f3rb1a6e73727f68668@mail.gmail.com>

What a fascinating question, Tom!  In an ice-breaker activity this year, my
GED-level students chose to ask each other that very question:  How do you
rate your reading skills?  In a mixed class of immigrants and
native-speakers, the answers varied, but not in the way we might think.  At
least one of the immigrants rated his reading as "excellent," while most of
the others said "pretty good" or "poor."  One of the native-speakers rated
her reading as "excellent" (which I have already come to doubt) while the
others were less sanguine.  I haven't had them in class long enough to make
my own judgment, but I'll be paying more attention after this.

Of course, these are people who definitely want to move out of their
"literacy niche," (great term) at least enough to get a GED and a better
job.  I'm not sure they think of what they are doing as necessarily
improving their literacy; rather they think they just have to pass the
test. *  *I hope they have a different idea by the time they get out of my
class!

Wendy Quinones
On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 7:11 PM, <tsticht at znet.com> wrote:

> September 26, 2008
>
> Where does the reading problem go when children grow up?
>
> Tom Sticht
> International Consultant in Adult Education
>
> Each year you can count on numerous reports and news articles being written
> about reading education in the K-12 school system of the United States.
> Without exception, these reports give the impression that we need to spend
> billions of dollars more on teaching children to read earlier
> (e.g.,universal preschool) and better.
>
> But if America's public schools aren't doing a good job of teaching
> reading,
> you wouldn't know it when the children have grown up and are asked as
> adults
> how well they read. Overwhelmingly, our nation's adults think they read
> Well
> or Very Well.
>
> The 1992 National Adult Literacy Survey (NALS) asked adults to rate
> their own reading skills as they perceived them. In a report on the
> Literacy of Older Adults in America, from the National Center for
> Education Statistics in Washington, DC, November 1996, the authors
> reported (p. 43) that  adults aged 16 to 59 rated themselves as reading
> Very Well-72%, Well-22% and Not Well/Not At All-7%. Overall, then, some
> 93% of adults in this age range rated themselves as reading Well or Very
> Well.
>
> When broken out by ethnic groups, ratings were
>
> Whites: Very Well-77%, Well-21%, or Not Well/Not At All-3%.
> Blacks:  Very Well-67%, Well-27% and Not Well/Not At All-6%.
> Hispanics: Very Well-46%, Well-22% and Not Well/Not At All-32%
>
> In this analysis, only Hispanics reported a high percentage, 32 percent, or
> 5.3 million adults, who thought they could not read English Well or Very
> Well, no doubt reflecting the large immigrant population in this category
> with less education and poorer English language skills than U.S. born
> adults. Among both Blacks and Whites, poor reading appears to be a
> perceived problem for only 3 to 6 percent of these populations, about 4.5
> million adults in the age range 16-59.
>
> Interestingly, when the average proficiencies of Whites and
> Blacks on the NALS Prose scale were compared, it was found that for
> Whites who rated themselves as reading Very Well, their average Prose
> proficiency was 308, well above average, whereas for Blacks rating
> themselves as reading Very Well, their Prose average proficiency
> was 259, well below average.
>
> Perhaps when children grow up and get out of the pre-K-12 world they
> adapt to the ambient literacy demands of a cultural niche that they find
> possible to occupy. They find jobs they can qualify for, they get
> information from sources they have access to and feel comfortable in
> using, and as they slip ever more firmly into their literacy niche, they
> feel more and more satisfaction with their literacy skills.  Maybe this is
> why so many U.S. adults think they read Well or Very Well, despite their
> poor performance on literacy tests. This raises the possibility that if
> they are using themselves as a standard, many adults are not able to judge
> whether or not their children are learning to read Well or Very Well in
> school and fail to take action on behalf of failing children.
>
> Today, our nation's Adult Education and Literacy System remains
> marginalized, operating with an average of $820 per enrollee, including
> both federal and state funds. This is less than 10 percent of what we spend
> per child in the K-12 system. Strangely, though federal and state
> governments have provided tens of billions of dollars in mostly failed
> attempts to improve the reading skills of children, once the children grow
> up their reading problems seem to go away. I wonder why?
>
> Thomas G. Sticht
> tsticht at aznet.net
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to teacherwendyq at gmail.com
>
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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Tue Sep 30 10:11:40 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 10:11:40 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1435]  Thank you to Stephanie Korber
Message-ID: <00d901c92306$762a4f30$0302a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi everyone,

 

I just wanted to thank Stephanie Korber for sharing how her program uses a
variety of assessments with youth.  I appreciated you taking the time to
write to the List.

 

Thanks!

 

Marie 

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From tsticht at znet.com  Sun Oct 12 21:40:44 2008
From: tsticht at znet.com (tsticht at znet.com)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 18:40:44 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1436]  Vote because you can
Message-ID: <1223862044.48f2a71c79e73@webmail.znet.net>

October 12, 2008

Tom Sticht
International Consultant in Adult Education

Nothing has moved so many illiterate or poorly literate men and women to
seek out teachers of literacy more than the shame of making a mark ?X- for
their name on public documents. Among such documents, signing voter
registrations at polling places during elections have played a central roll
in motivating adults to learn to read and write.

In her Country Life Readers: First Book (1915), Cora Wilson Stewart, founder
of the Moonlight Schools of Kentucky for the emancipation of adult
illiterates, wrote about the value of voting and adult new readers studied
this motivational material. Stewart, writing before women had the national
right to vote,  wrote:

?With his vote a man rules.
The man who does not vote has
no voice in the affairs of his country.
He cheats his country, his family,
and himself.
Every man should make use of his
right to vote.
He should always vote for the best
man or for the one who stands
for the best things.
The man who sells his vote sells
his honor.? (p. 53)

During World War I, soldiers in literacy classes learned to read and write
using the Camp Reader for American Soldiers published in 1918. They read
about their right to vote at a time when women?s suffrage was available in
some but not all states:

?In the United States the people have a voice in the government.
The President of the United States is the choice of the people.
The people choose the President by their votes.
In many states both sexes have the right to vote.
In many states voters pay a poll-tax.
A poll-tax is a tax you pay before you can go to the polls to vote.
Do you have to pay a poll-tax in your state?
In many states only the men can vote.
In many states both sexes can vote.
Do both sexes vote in your state?
In the United States the people choose the government.
The soldier fights for the government the people choose.? (p. 33)

By World War II women?s suffrage was in place across the United States and
in the Army Reader of 1944 soldiers in literacy programs were reminded of
what they were fighting for. Discussing Private Pete, the fictional soldier
that adult literacy learners could identify with because he, Pete, was also
in a literacy school learning to read and write, Chapter 2 was entitled
What Every Citizen Knows. The chapter says, ?Pete is a free man who lives
with free people. Free people have self-government. They have the right to
vote. They have the right to pick their leaders. Then can make and change
their laws.? (p.120).

But even after World War II African-American citizens who were illiterate
were prohibited from voting by Jim Crow laws across the southern states of
the U.S. But this situation was challenged by Septima Poinsette Clark,
sometimes called the ?Queen Mother of the Civil Rights Movement in the
United States.? Clark started citizenship schools while working for the
Highlander Folk school of Tennessee and later the Southern Christian
Leadership Conference at the request of Dr. Martin Luther King. She taught
adult illiterates to write their names, read election laws and other legal
documents needed to meet voting requirements for literacy. In four years at
the SCLC she and others trained some 10,000 teachers and registered some
700,000 African-Americans to vote in the South. With the political power of
the vote, it was not long before politicians were prodded into passing laws
extending civil rights to millions of citizen whose voices had not been
heard due to illiteracy and oppressive voting laws.

Soon, adult literacy learners, and all other American adults will have the
opportunity to once again choose the leadership of the United States. Adult
literacy educators to need to join with the adult educators of times past
and encourage adult learners to learn to read and write so they can
exercise their rights as citizens.

Writing about her work with adult literacy learners, Septima Poinsette Clark
wrote, ?How can anybody estimate the worth of pride achieved, hope
accomplished, faith affirmed, citizenship won? These are intangible things
but real nevertheless, solid and of inestimable value.?

Election day is November 4th this year of 2008. Vote as though your life and
the lives of your children and grandchildren depend upon it! Because they
do! And because you can!

Thomas G. Sticht
tsticht at aznet.net





From bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net  Mon Oct 13 20:02:17 2008
From: bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net (Bonnie Odiorne)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 17:02:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Assessment 1437] Re: [Technology 1775]  Vote because you can
Message-ID: <805973.70328.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Amen to what Tom has written. I now am the proud owner of a t-shirt votewithoutfear, in memory of the women suffragists who were tortured in their actions to get the vote for women. 
?



----- Original Message ----
From: "tsticht at znet.com" <tsticht at znet.com>
To: englishliteracy at nifl.gov; professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov; assessment at nifl.gov; diversity at nifl.gov; familyliteracy at nifl.gov; healthliteracy at nifl.gov; learningdisabilities at nifl.gov; technology at nifl.gov; workplace at nifl.gov
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 9:40:44 PM
Subject: [Technology 1775] Vote because you can

October 12, 2008

Tom Sticht
International Consultant in Adult Education

Nothing has moved so many illiterate or poorly literate men and women to
seek out teachers of literacy more than the shame of making a mark ?X- for
their name on public documents. Among such documents, signing voter
registrations at polling places during elections have played a central roll
in motivating adults to learn to read and write.

In her Country Life Readers: First Book (1915), Cora Wilson Stewart, founder
of the Moonlight Schools of Kentucky for the emancipation of adult
illiterates, wrote about the value of voting and adult new readers studied
this motivational material. Stewart, writing before women had the national
right to vote,? wrote:

?With his vote a man rules.
The man who does not vote has
no voice in the affairs of his country.
He cheats his country, his family,
and himself.
Every man should make use of his
right to vote.
He should always vote for the best
man or for the one who stands
for the best things.
The man who sells his vote sells
his honor.? (p. 53)

During World War I, soldiers in literacy classes learned to read and write
using the Camp Reader for American Soldiers published in 1918. They read
about their right to vote at a time when women?s suffrage was available in
some but not all states:

?In the United States the people have a voice in the government.
The President of the United States is the choice of the people.
The people choose the President by their votes.
In many states both sexes have the right to vote.
In many states voters pay a poll-tax.
A poll-tax is a tax you pay before you can go to the polls to vote.
Do you have to pay a poll-tax in your state?
In many states only the men can vote.
In many states both sexes can vote.
Do both sexes vote in your state?
In the United States the people choose the government.
The soldier fights for the government the people choose.? (p. 33)

By World War II women?s suffrage was in place across the United States and
in the Army Reader of 1944 soldiers in literacy programs were reminded of
what they were fighting for. Discussing Private Pete, the fictional soldier
that adult literacy learners could identify with because he, Pete, was also
in a literacy school learning to read and write, Chapter 2 was entitled
What Every Citizen Knows. The chapter says, ?Pete is a free man who lives
with free people. Free people have self-government. They have the right to
vote. They have the right to pick their leaders. Then can make and change
their laws.? (p.120).

But even after World War II African-American citizens who were illiterate
were prohibited from voting by Jim Crow laws across the southern states of
the U.S. But this situation was challenged by Septima Poinsette Clark,
sometimes called the ?Queen Mother of the Civil Rights Movement in the
United States.? Clark started citizenship schools while working for the
Highlander Folk school of Tennessee and later the Southern Christian
Leadership Conference at the request of Dr. Martin Luther King. She taught
adult illiterates to write their names, read election laws and other legal
documents needed to meet voting requirements for literacy. In four years at
the SCLC she and others trained some 10,000 teachers and registered some
700,000 African-Americans to vote in the South. With the political power of
the vote, it was not long before politicians were prodded into passing laws
extending civil rights to millions of citizen whose voices had not been
heard due to illiteracy and oppressive voting laws.

Soon, adult literacy learners, and all other American adults will have the
opportunity to once again choose the leadership of the United States. Adult
literacy educators to need to join with the adult educators of times past
and encourage adult learners to learn to read and write so they can
exercise their rights as citizens.

Writing about her work with adult literacy learners, Septima Poinsette Clark
wrote, ?How can anybody estimate the worth of pride achieved, hope
accomplished, faith affirmed, citizenship won? These are intangible things
but real nevertheless, solid and of inestimable value.?

Election day is November 4th this year of 2008. Vote as though your life and
the lives of your children and grandchildren depend upon it! Because they
do! And because you can!

Thomas G. Sticht
tsticht at aznet.net




----------------------------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Technology and Literacy mailing list
Technology at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/technology
Email delivered to bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net
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From kbeall at onlyinternet.net  Tue Oct 14 10:04:01 2008
From: kbeall at onlyinternet.net (Kaye Beall)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:04:01 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1438] New Issue of Focus on Basic--Health & Literacy
	Partnerships
Message-ID: <BF5605762237468C9DE2F8F35DC6DD3F@D14J7YD1>

Health and literacy are inextricably linked, and health and literacy
providers are working together in new and exciting ways to use that link for
positive results. The newest issue of Focus on Basics is packed with
articles on a wide variety of partnerships: between nursing and teacher
educators in the university, between medical schools and literacy programs,
between health educators and literacy students, between health planners and
literacy providers.  Also included in the issue is a long-awaited report on
a five-year study of the impact of a literacy curriculum that incorporate
health information on the literacy skills and health knowledge of learners,
a new way to look at what the health information in the National Assessment
of Adult Learning reveals, and how to use illustrations effectively in
health education materials.  Authors include Dr. Susan Levy and colleagues,
Dr. Andrew Pleasant, and Dr. Ian Bennett and colleagues, and National
Institute for Literacy's Health Literacy discussion list moderator Julie
McKinney, among others.

 

Download the new issue of Focus on Basics, Volume 9, Issue B, "Health &
Literacy Partnerships" from the right hand column of publisher World
Education's home page: www.worlded.org  or find the new issue and all past
issues at www.ncsall.net/fileadmin/resources/fob/2008/fob_9b.pdf and
www.ncsall.net/index.php?id=31 

 

 

Kaye Beall

Project Director

World Education

6760 West Street

Linn Grove, IN 46711

765-717-3942

kaye_beall at worlded.org

www.worlded.org

 

 

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From djrosen1 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 15 08:05:45 2008
From: djrosen1 at gmail.com (djrosen1)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 08:05:45 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1438]  New Designs in online and Distance Learning,
	a Special Topics Discussion
Message-ID: <23842958-7E1F-4F4B-BE8D-12D7B3BB437C@gmail.com>

Colleagues,

New Designs in Online and Distance Learning is a National Institute  
for Literacy Special Topics discussion that will be held from  
November 17th through November 21st, 2008. It will focus on two new  
adult education models: a national learning portal for English  
language learning at a distance, called USA Learns, and a web-based  
and telephone-based learning support system, called the Learner Web,  
for ABE, ASE and ELL students enrolled in classes to supplement their  
learning, as well as for those who study on their own. We have four  
distinguished guests, researchers as well as product developers, who  
will describe these two models and answer questions.

For USA Learns, our guests are John Fleischman and Dr. Jerome (Jere)  
Johnston. For the Learner Web our guests are Dr. Stephen Reder and  
Dr. Clare Strawn. You will find more information about them below.

To subscribe to the discussion, go to:

http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/specialtopics

You can unsubscribe later by going to the same web page or, if you
prefer, you can stay subscribed for the next discussion.

Please forward this announcement to your colleagues who may be
interested!

Description of the models

The Learner Web is a learning support system providing structure and  
resources for adults who want to accomplish specific learning  
objectives. A learner can access the system through the Internet. In  
addition to on-line resources, the Learner Web integrates support  
services from existing local education programs, community based  
organizations, tutors, and telephone helpers. The Learner Web  
consists of a Web-based software system that is implemented  
regionally. The System is organized around Learning Plans. A Learning  
Plan is a set of steps structured around achieving an identified  
goal. For example, if the goal is to get a GED, the steps might  
include finding out more about the tests, identifying what skills one  
needs to brush up on, learning new skills and knowledge, taking  
practice tests, etc. Each step is matched with online and community  
based resources and a workspace where learners can take assessments  
or save their work in an e-portfolio. The learner creates a personal  
profile, may take a short reading assessment and interest inventory,  
chooses a goal from the available list and follows the Learning Plan  
independently or with a tutor or a teacher. The Learning Plan is  
dynamically matched by the software to both the learner profile and  
educational resources. The learner?s progress is saved and can be  
returned to at any time via the internet. Learners can choose to  
share their workspace with a tutor or teacher.

The Learner Web has begun the second year of a three-year  
demonstration project in seven demonstration regions across the country.

U.S.A. Learns is a free Web site designed for adult learners with  
limited English language skills.  Instructional content focuses on  
the language and literacy skills that adults need for everyday  
survival.  While a broad range of adults can use U.S.A. Learns, it  
has been developed primarily for immigrants who cannot attend  
traditional classroom programs because of difficulty with schedules,  
transportation, or other barriers.  The site includes more than 400  
hours of instruction and offers an extensive array of video, audio  
and richly illustrated graphics and images.  The site layout was  
created with the inexperienced Web user in mind, and extensive built- 
in help features are available.  U.S.A. Learns can be used  
independently, but it can also be used in association with a teacher  
or tutor via an online management system.


Background on Discussion Guests

John Fleischman

With more than 25 years of experience in adult education as a  
teacher, administrator and project director, John Fleischman is  
currently responsible for information and educational technology  
operations at the Sacramento County Office of Education.  John  
possesses an extensive background with creating and implementing  
instructional and informational media for use in a variety of  
educational environments.  His present area of focus is on building  
Web-based solutions for education, including data management systems  
and comprehensive online learning resources.  Working at the state  
and national level, he provides oversight for a range of technology  
initiatives including the Outreach and Technology Assistance Network  
(www.otan.us) and Strengthening Programs Through Technology  
(www.adultedonline.org).  John is the author of numerous publications  
and is frequently requested as a presenter at both state and national  
conferences.

Jerome (Jere) Johnston is Research Professor at the University of  
Michigan?s Institute for Social Research.  For 40 years he has been  
studying ways that technology shapes what people learn.  In recent  
years Dr. Johnston has been exploring innovative ways to use  
technology in adult literacy.  He directs the Project IDEAL Support  
Center, supporting 25 states in their efforts to build distance  
learning programs for adult learners.  The Center provides technical  
assistance to states in the areas of training, research, and policy  
development (projectideal.org).

Stephen Reder is University Professor and Chair of the Department of  
Applied Linguistics at Portland State University.  His research and  
teaching interests focus on adult education and the processes of  
literacy and language development during adulthood.  Dr. Reder has  
served as the Principal Investigator for a number of major projects  
in adult education. Two recent projects, the Longitudinal Study of  
Adult Learning and the National Labsite for Adult ESOL, examine the  
ways adults acquire new literacy and language abilities and the roles  
which adult education programs and policies play in supporting that  
development.  The results of this research have led to the  
development of the Learner Web, an innovative online adult learning  
support system.  Professor Reder is the author of numerous  
publications about his research and its implications for adult  
education and adult literacy and language development. He has  
recently completed co-editing a volume with John Bynner, Tracking  
Adult Literacy and Numeracy Skills: Findings from Longitudinal  
Research.  A second book is in progress, Dropping Out and Moving On:  
Life, Literacy and Development among High School Dropouts. Dr. Reder  
actively works with networks of adult education researchers,  
practitioners and policymakers at the state, regional and national  
levels.

Clare Strawn is Assistant Professor at Portland State University,  
Portland, Oregon, and has been an analyst on the Longitudinal Study  
of Adult Learning. She is interested in patterns of program  
participation, the intersection of learning and community  
development, social capital influences on learning strategies, and  
technology. She has been a co-developer, with Steve Reder of the  
Learner Web and has been actively involved in the demonstration project

David J. Rosen
Special Topics Discussion Moderator
djrosen1 at gmail.com



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From ashesmunro at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 16 13:34:05 2008
From: ashesmunro at yahoo.com (Ashley Miller)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:34:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Assessment 1439]  English and Spanish Literacy Screeners
Message-ID: <485025.1733.qm@web33808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello All - I am working on a project related to my Master Degree in Communication Disorders.? I need to find a literacy screener in English and one in Spanish.? Any suggestions on which ones are the best or that you find useful?
Thank you.


      
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From gloria at neable.org  Thu Oct 16 14:44:53 2008
From: gloria at neable.org (Gloria Gillette)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:44:53 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1440] Re: English and Spanish Literacy Screeners
In-Reply-To: <485025.1733.qm@web33808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <010e01c92fbf$47480110$7232a8c0@NEARCGloria>

Try  the Native Language Screening Device:
http://www.hudrivctr.org/index.htm
 
 
Gloria W. Gillette
Director
Northeast ABLE Resource Center
www.neable.org
1800 361 7076
 
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Ashley Miller
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 1:34 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1439] English and Spanish Literacy Screeners
 

Hello All - I am working on a project related to my Master Degree in
Communication Disorders.  I need to find a literacy screener in English
and one in Spanish.  Any suggestions on which ones are the best or that
you find useful?
Thank you.
 
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From Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org  Fri Oct 17 12:47:57 2008
From: Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org (Anderson, Philip)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 12:47:57 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1441] Re: Assessment Digest, Vol 37, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1224259200.29362.assessment@nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E1C3C08D0@MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>

Ashley,

The following is a response I posted to the Family Literacy list:
 
The Florida Department of Education Adult English for Speakers of Other
Languages program adapted a screening tool for literacy in 22 languages
that was first developed in the state of New York.  It was adapted for
use in Florida programs by a team of Florida adult ESOL administrators
and instructors, so it may not be exactly what you seek.

The link is http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/pdf/vocscr.pdf.  This is
being used by our ESOL programs to determine if a student is literate in
his or her home language before placing the student into an ESOL class
with students who are literate in their home language.  The screening
tool has instructions on how to administer and score it.  

Phil Anderson, Adult ESOL Program
Florida Department of Education
(850) 245-9450
philip.anderson at fldoe.org


 

Please take a few minutes to provide feedback on the quality of service you received from our staff. The Department of Education values your feedback as a customer. Commissioner of Education Dr. Eric J. Smith is committed to continuously assessing and improving the level and quality of services provided to you.Simply use the link below.  Thank you in advance for completing the survey.
 

http://data.fldoe.org/cs/default.cfm?staff=Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org|12:49:08%20Fri%2017%20Oct%202008
 



 -----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of assessment-request at nifl.gov
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 12:00 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: Assessment Digest, Vol 37, Issue 4

Send Assessment mailing list submissions to
	assessment at nifl.gov

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Assessment digest..."

From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Wed Oct 22 13:05:37 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:05:37 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1442]  New way to teach math
Message-ID: <022001c93468$6db150b0$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi everyone,

 

It's been quiet on the List lately!  I'm sure everyone is quite busy; I have
been busy working on organizing some of the discussions that subscribers
suggested to me in September.  I hope to have an announcement for you all
soon on topics that I've been able to put together for the List.

 

In the meantime, I came across this information below and thought I would
put it out there for subscribers to read, think about, and respond to.
These studies are focused on grade-school age children; however, I found
some of the discussion very interesting and thought some of it might be
appropriate for working with adults.  

 

So!  Do you find that either of these resources could be applicable to adult
literacy education?  All of either report?  Some of either? 

 

Are you familiar with similar efforts that are focused on adults and if so,
could you please share this information with us here?

 

If you feel that this is not informative for adult educators in any way, can
you say why?

 

And finally, do folks have methods or processes they use to diagnose gaps in
math skills/abilities with the adults they work with?  If so, can you share
what you do with us here?

 

Thanks!

 

Marie 

 

A NEW WAY TO TEACH MATH SHOWS MERIT
Two new studies from Teachers College, Columbia University, examined teacher
practices and early outcomes of a dynamic classroom assessment approach
known as Proximal Assessment for Learner Diagnosis (PALD). The reports find
that sixth graders who were taught by PALD scored significantly higher on
standardized math tests than peers who weren't exposed to the method. In
addition, fifth graders who participated in the program outperformed their
peers in geometry. The method requires teachers to break down math problem
solving -- or any academic task they want students to learn -- into a set of
connected skills and concepts. Then the teacher assesses student performance
at each step to understand precisely where students make errors or show lack
of understanding.
http://www.tc.edu/i/media/6565_6563_AERAPALDOutcomesExecutiveSummary.pdf
<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001xftdtjhVltvOzslEa0Gciii_icKGCTYGO6IbBTtQcrGXEGA2
3HtgyaYLrT9pAir9jaN10Cqw5JhWqkQ6KJ2ksRFn15kEdFPuRGKLc30qduryyjD8wqMuRAOSCwtE
yKFAqTWglorryNLI9uqcy2tYg5XdztcaWNHQEyN_LOM-nHk2b7icLNXxDg==> 
http://www.tc.edu/i/media/6565_AERAPALDMappingCognitivePathways.pdf
<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001xftdtjhVltsgNkKzAVyhStIu7u2CKBIgKOXgfeFHrbkmEeh9
k1_mRPHwHBRxgKMXoYxJSAYzFOCiO7Osa-FNpih5ShoydoGvQDKghQFwzCNBoHzNbwhuDuEbNioZ
6fe7Gqezl5KyP1LDrb46CX_gMNksyHM0BvDW1NdH1hGx7Q2-j4vuAihgpg==> 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From Tina.Luffman at yc.edu  Wed Oct 22 13:50:56 2008
From: Tina.Luffman at yc.edu (Luffman, Tina, Ellen)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 10:50:56 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1443] Re: New way to teach math
In-Reply-To: <022001c93468$6db150b0$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
References: <022001c93468$6db150b0$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <480F5D7796E2AD4D89E56FD2BDA543155437080D37@OLYMPIA.yc.edu>

Hi Marie and all,

Maureen Hoyt loaded the reading lessons and others onto the AALL website here in Arizona. Here is the direct link to the page where list members can locate these lessons and others that have been recently aligned with Arizona standards.

I hope you are having a great day!

http://az-aall.org/AALL/Pages/Lessons/AZlessons.htm

Tina
________________________________
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Marie Cora [marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:05 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1442] New way to teach math

Hi everyone,

It?s been quiet on the List lately!  I?m sure everyone is quite busy; I have been busy working on organizing some of the discussions that subscribers suggested to me in September.  I hope to have an announcement for you all soon on topics that I?ve been able to put together for the List.

In the meantime, I came across this information below and thought I would put it out there for subscribers to read, think about, and respond to.  These studies are focused on grade-school age children; however, I found some of the discussion very interesting and thought some of it might be appropriate for working with adults.

So!  Do you find that either of these resources could be applicable to adult literacy education?  All of either report?  Some of either?

Are you familiar with similar efforts that are focused on adults and if so, could you please share this information with us here?

If you feel that this is not informative for adult educators in any way, can you say why?

And finally, do folks have methods or processes they use to diagnose gaps in math skills/abilities with the adults they work with?  If so, can you share what you do with us here?

Thanks!

Marie


A NEW WAY TO TEACH MATH SHOWS MERIT
Two new studies from Teachers College, Columbia University, examined teacher practices and early outcomes of a dynamic classroom assessment approach known as Proximal Assessment for Learner Diagnosis (PALD). The reports find that sixth graders who were taught by PALD scored significantly higher on standardized math tests than peers who weren't exposed to the method. In addition, fifth graders who participated in the program outperformed their peers in geometry. The method requires teachers to break down math problem solving -- or any academic task they want students to learn -- into a set of connected skills and concepts. Then the teacher assesses student performance at each step to understand precisely where students make errors or show lack of understanding.
http://www.tc.edu/i/media/6565_6563_AERAPALDOutcomesExecutiveSummary.pdf<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001xftdtjhVltvOzslEa0Gciii_icKGCTYGO6IbBTtQcrGXEGA23HtgyaYLrT9pAir9jaN10Cqw5JhWqkQ6KJ2ksRFn15kEdFPuRGKLc30qduryyjD8wqMuRAOSCwtEyKFAqTWglorryNLI9uqcy2tYg5XdztcaWNHQEyN_LOM-nHk2b7icLNXxDg==>
http://www.tc.edu/i/media/6565_AERAPALDMappingCognitivePathways.pdf<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001xftdtjhVltsgNkKzAVyhStIu7u2CKBIgKOXgfeFHrbkmEeh9k1_mRPHwHBRxgKMXoYxJSAYzFOCiO7Osa-FNpih5ShoydoGvQDKghQFwzCNBoHzNbwhuDuEbNioZ6fe7Gqezl5KyP1LDrb46CX_gMNksyHM0BvDW1NdH1hGx7Q2-j4vuAihgpg==>


Marie Cora, Moderator
Assessment Discussion List
National Institute for Literacy
Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com<mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

Coordinator of Assessment
Program Planning Resource Collection
National Institute for Literacy
Visit at:  http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html



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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Wed Oct 22 15:01:33 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 15:01:33 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1444]  Free On-Line Courses for Program Improvement
Message-ID: <024a01c93478$9afa13d0$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Colleagues:  the following opportunity may interest some of you.

 

Marie Cora

 

****************************************************

 

Is being able to demonstrate your program's effectiveness important to your
program's success?

 

Free online self-paced courses are available to help now at
http://207.10.202.152 <http://207.10.202.152/> 

  

With support from the Dollar General Literacy Foundation, ProLiteracy brings
administrators and staff of literacy and adult basic education programs
field-tested strategies to adapt to your programs' accountability needs

 

 

Data Collection and Management

The first of a three-part online series on performance accountability.  The
course deals with the foundation data collection and management practices
needed to ensure the availability of credible, high-quality student data.
Length:  approximately 3-4 hours

This course will help you:

 

*	Build common language and approach to accountability
*	Organize collection and management efforts around key decision
points and staff roles
*	Increase confidence in your program's data collection and management
practices

 

 

Data Analysis for Program Decision-Making 

The second in the series.  This course helps administrators and staff learn
why and how to institutionalize data-driven decision-making practices.
Length:  approximately 3-4 hours

This course will help you:

 The underlying premise of the course is that all aspects of data-driven
decision-making become institutionalized practices, thereby establishing a
culture of continuous improvement.

In this course you will: 

 

*	Review and practice data analysis skills
*	Improve quality of decision-making through a team approach to data
analysis and review
*	Streamline program improvement using practical planning tools and
strategies

 

 

Coming in the fall of 2009:  Communicating Success to Stakeholders, the
third course in the series.  

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Thu Oct 23 11:29:48 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 11:29:48 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1445]  National Program Improvement Grant Opportunity
Message-ID: <004d01c93524$30835d20$e234cd63@LITNOW>

Colleagues,

 

The following announcement may be of interest to some of you.

 

Marie Cora

 

****************************************************************

 

 

National Program Improvement Grant Opportunity 

Coming in November 2008!

 

Do you want to learn effective and innovative ways to tell your community
and your funders about your program's effectiveness?

 

YES?  Then ProLiteracy and your peers across the country are ready to help
you!

 

Apply to participate in Year Three of the Dollar General/ProLiteracy
Performance Accountability (DGPA) Initiative

 

As a one-year participating program, your program will get:

 

*	Ideas tested by your literacy peers
*	A $1,650 stipend to help offset travel and mid-year and end-of-year
reporting requirements
*	Places for two staff at one of six 1.5 day regional face-to-face
trainings "Communicating Success to Stakeholders," to be held in February
and March 2009
*	Access to practical online resources and support through the DGPA
wiki and discussion list
*	Time to reflect on and plan program improvements
*	A reason to test and evaluate some new strategies

 

How to get involved:  Watch your email!  Applications for participation will
be available in early November 2008

 

For more information or to request application information, email Marie
Cora, DGPA Project Manager at mcora at proliteracy.org

 

This project is made possible through the generous support of the Dollar
General Literacy Foundation

 

 

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From kbryant at tcsg.edu  Thu Oct 30 13:16:30 2008
From: kbryant at tcsg.edu (Bryant, Kimberlee)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:16:30 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1446]  TABE CLAS-E
Message-ID: <AD11DB73C0791B4DB82AC6F4FC7348A26B9C75@mail2.co.dtae.org>

Hello Everyone,

 

I'll keep this short.

 

Since TABE CLAS-E was recently approved for use by OVAE, have any states
adopted it for use in FY09? Or are planning to in FY10?

 

If so, would you be willing to share the issues/concerns that came up
during this process (crafting the state assessment policy, training
local program staff members, etc.)? 

 

Based on this experience, what advice could you give to other states?

 

Kimberlee Bryant

Regional Education Coordinator

Instructional Services/Office of Adult Education

Technical College System of Georgia

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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Fri Oct 31 11:00:16 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 11:00:16 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1447]  Assessment of Reading
Message-ID: <02fc01c93b69$63724d90$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.

 

I was reading this exchange on the AAACE-NLA Discussion List and thought it
might be of interest to some of you.  I posted it in the order of the
conversation so you do not need to read from the bottom up.

 

If you view the Reading Demonstration on YouTube, I would be very interested
in hearing what your thoughts are on the video.  

 

Marie Cora

Assessment Discussion List Moderator

 

***********************************************************************

 

Good day all,

 

A group of practitioners in the greater Hartford area are looking for

a

screening instrument that social service and health organizations can

use that will help them identify clients with limited reading and/or

English speaking abilities.  While certain things may be quite

obvious,

other "hidden" factors may not be so.

 

The desire for this information is twofold:

 

a) To help agency staff to better recognize limitations of reading,

writing, or speaking and understanding in clients to better

accommodate

their needs and requests

b) To recommend adult education programs that their clients may be

interested in participating

 

If someone knows of a specific instrument, please share it here or to

me

at george.demetrion at lvgh.org

 

Whether or not there is such an instrument perhaps folks would be

willing to lay out criteria they might use or recommend.

 

My goal is to collect as much information as I can on this by Friday.

 

Regards,

 

George Demetrion

 

******************************************************************

 

Get a copy of the text, Starting Over: A Literacy Program.  In the front

it has an assessment that can reveal a reading deficiency.

 

Derek Albert

WITCC Adult Literacy Coordinator

American Indian Club Advisor

712-274-8733 or 1-800-352-4649

ext. 1803

albertd at witcc.edu

 

****************************************************************************
*************

 

Greetings fellow travelers

 

George, to get a more holistic sense of what adults can do with literacy
(and where they might have difficulties), try a variation of the Reading
Demonstration.  We asked adult learners to identify the products and print
pieces that they recognize and read them with us - this gives us a sense of
how they negotiate everyday print, what their strengths are and where their
interests lie. (The approach was adapted for the 2003 NAAL) 

 

We put the Reading Demonstration up on YouTube in 3 parts
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=literacywork
<http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=literacywork&search_type=&aq=f>
&search_type=&aq=f where you can watch Bessima show me how much English she
knows or rather how much she is able to do with very little English.  If the
link does not work, simply go to YouTube.com and type in Literacywork and
the videos should pop right up. 

 

If you are working in an educational institution that blocks YouTube, you
can see the session in its entirety (20 minutes) by going to
http://www.literacywork.com/readingdemonstration

 

(there's also a short explanation there). 

 

If that doesn't work for you, or if you have questions, please let me know 

 

Best 

 

Heide 

 

Heide Spruck Wrigley

Literacywork International 

Mesilla, New Mexico 

 

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org  Fri Oct 31 13:03:34 2008
From: Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org (Anderson, Philip)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:03:34 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1448] Re: TABE CLAS-E
In-Reply-To: <AD11DB73C0791B4DB82AC6F4FC7348A26B9C75@mail2.co.dtae.org>
Message-ID: <96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E1CF41A84@MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>

Kimberlee,

 

I'm glad to see your posting, since we at the state adult education
office in Florida are asking similar questions.  Florida has an ad hoc
committee on assessment that is working on a set of recommendations to
the state office on the adoption of TABE CLAS-E.  

 

Local programs may purchase and use the test if they choose to do so for
informational purposes, such as to guide instruction, and for purposes
that are not related to documentation for state and federal adult
education grants.  But until the FL Department of Education State Board
approves TABE CLAS-E to be used for reporting any placement or
progression based on test results to the state or the federal National
Reporting System (NRS).

 

At our statewide conference in September, we had a session on how to
select tests for adult education programs that was well attended.  I
developed an in-house guide and checklist on test selection, which we
provided to the participants.  I would be glad to send it offline to any
one that requests it.  

 

CTB McGraw Hill also provided us a planning/test selection tool they
developed. You may wish to request a copy of it from Dan Gall,
Dan_Gall at ctb.com, or Stephanie Seemann, Stephanie_Seemann at ctb.com.  They
have been very responsive to our queries.

 

The primary issue we are grappling with as a committee is whether to
recommend that the state assessment policy mandate that programs must
assess adult ESOL students in more than one skill area, and to report on
the lowest score of the skill areas tested.  

 

You can see our current state assessment technical assistance paper
online at the adult education webpage
<http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp>  of the Florida Department
of Education, http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp.  

 

Phil

 

CONTACT INFORMATION

Philip Anderson

Adult ESOL Program

Florida Department of Education

Tel (850) 245-9450

philip.anderson at fldoe.org


 

Please take a few minutes to provide feedback on the quality of service you received from our staff. The Department of Education values your feedback as a customer. Commissioner of Education Dr. Eric J. Smith is committed to continuously assessing and improving the level and quality of services provided to you.Simply use the link below.  Thank you in advance for completing the survey.
 

http://data.fldoe.org/cs/default.cfm?staff=Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org|13:03:35%20Fri%2031%20Oct%202008
 



 ________________________________

From: Bryant, Kimberlee [mailto:kbryant at tcsg.edu] 
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 1:17 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Cc: Marie Cora
Subject: [Assessment 1446] TABE CLAS-E

 

Hello Everyone,

 

I'll keep this short.

 

Since TABE CLAS-E was recently approved for use by OVAE, have any states
adopted it for use in FY09? Or are planning to in FY10?

 

If so, would you be willing to share the issues/concerns that came up
during this process (crafting the state assessment policy, training
local program staff members, etc.)? 

 

Based on this experience, what advice could you give to other states?

 

Kimberlee Bryant

Regional Education Coordinator

Instructional Services/Office of Adult Education

Technical College System of Georgia
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From kburger at cville.k12.in.us  Sat Nov  1 03:26:16 2008
From: kburger at cville.k12.in.us (Burger, Karen)
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 03:26:16 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1449] Re: TABE CLAS-E
In-Reply-To: <96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E1CF41A84@MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>
References: <AD11DB73C0791B4DB82AC6F4FC7348A26B9C75@mail2.co.dtae.org>,
	<96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E1CF41A84@MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>
Message-ID: <E127BBFE2719D54580E9651B704C89C077EEAFBC49@CVILLEMAIL.cville.local>

Phil,
Although I have not yet looked into the TABE CLAS-E, I find it interesting that your state is looking at ESOL testing with regard to how to level learners and which skill areas must be assessed.  Our state policy allows for some flexibility in this for the following reasons.  First, if it is a workplace project, and the employer is requesting instruction in a specific skill area, then that is the area assessed and used for leveling the learner.  Also, some of our programs are very small, have limit resources, staff, space and materials.  This can make it difficult to assess learners in all areas.  Particularly in listening because of the type of testing environment that it requires.  Further, there are times that a learner may have the goal to improve skills in a certain area.  Again, the goal would be set and the learner would only need to be assessed in that area.  I hate to see too much restriction that gets in the way of providing classes that suit our learners needs.  Sometimes it would seem that we test our people to death, don't you think?

We are thankful that our state leaders have chosen to provide us with good structure and flexibility in the assessment policy.  Otherwise, there are some programs that would find it difficult to comply with and would not be able to report, or could not afford to serve some of our ESL poplulation.   Good luck!

Karen Burger
Professional Development Consultant
Adult Education Professional Development Project
John Beard Learning Center
1601 East College Street
Crawfordsville, IN 47933
(765) 362-8158
Toll free (866) 977-9902
kburger at cville.k12.in.us<mailto:kburger at cville.k12.in.us>
________________________________
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Anderson, Philip [Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org]
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 1:03 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1448] Re: TABE CLAS-E

Kimberlee,

I?m glad to see your posting, since we at the state adult education office in Florida are asking similar questions.  Florida has an ad hoc committee on assessment that is working on a set of recommendations to the state office on the adoption of TABE CLAS-E.

Local programs may purchase and use the test if they choose to do so for informational purposes, such as to guide instruction, and for purposes that are not related to documentation for state and federal adult education grants.  But until the FL Department of Education State Board approves TABE CLAS-E to be used for reporting any placement or progression based on test results to the state or the federal National Reporting System (NRS).

At our statewide conference in September, we had a session on how to select tests for adult education programs that was well attended.  I developed an in-house guide and checklist on test selection, which we provided to the participants.  I would be glad to send it offline to any one that requests it.

CTB McGraw Hill also provided us a planning/test selection tool they developed. You may wish to request a copy of it from Dan Gall, Dan_Gall at ctb.com<mailto:Dan_Gall at ctb.com>, or Stephanie Seemann, Stephanie_Seemann at ctb.com<mailto:Stephanie_Seemann at ctb.com>.  They have been very responsive to our queries.

The primary issue we are grappling with as a committee is whether to recommend that the state assessment policy mandate that programs must assess adult ESOL students in more than one skill area, and to report on the lowest score of the skill areas tested.

You can see our current state assessment technical assistance paper online at the adult education webpage<http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp> of the Florida Department of Education, http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp.

Phil

CONTACT INFORMATION
Philip Anderson
Adult ESOL Program
Florida Department of Education
Tel (850) 245-9450
philip.anderson at fldoe.org

Please take a few minutes to provide feedback on the quality of service you received from our staff. The Department of Education values your feedback as a customer. Commissioner of Education Dr. Eric J. Smith is committed to continuously assessing and improving the level and quality of services provided to you. Simply click on the link to the "DOE Customer Survey."  Thank you in advance for completing the survey.

DOE Customer Survey<http://data.fldoe.org/cs/default.cfm?staff=Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org|13:03:35%20Fri%2031%20Oct%202008>


________________________________
From: Bryant, Kimberlee [mailto:kbryant at tcsg.edu]
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 1:17 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Cc: Marie Cora
Subject: [Assessment 1446] TABE CLAS-E

Hello Everyone,

I?ll keep this short.

Since TABE CLAS-E was recently approved for use by OVAE, have any states adopted it for use in FY09? Or are planning to in FY10?

If so, would you be willing to share the issues/concerns that came up during this process (crafting the state assessment policy, training local program staff members, etc.)?

Based on this experience, what advice could you give to other states?

Kimberlee Bryant
Regional Education Coordinator
Instructional Services/Office of Adult Education
Technical College System of Georgia


________________________________
DISCLAIMER: The information in this message is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, or distribution of the message, or any action or omission taken by you in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Please immediately contact the sender if you have received this message in error.
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From Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org  Sat Nov  1 12:12:38 2008
From: Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org (Anderson, Philip)
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 12:12:38 -0400
Subject: [Assessment 1450] Re: Assessment Digest, Vol 38, Issue 1
References: <mailman.0.1225555200.23029.assessment@nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E14D0E027@MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>

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From Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org  Mon Nov  3 08:45:28 2008
From: Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org (Anderson, Philip)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 08:45:28 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1451] Re: TABE CLAS-E
In-Reply-To: <E127BBFE2719D54580E9651B704C89C077EEAFBC49@CVILLEMAIL.cville.local>
Message-ID: <96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E1CF41B57@MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>

Karen, 

 

I really appreciate your helpful thoughts.  Your voice is one that I
will share with our ad hoc committee, so they can hear from someone with
similar issues.  I heartily agree with you about trying to meet student
goals instead of state mandates.  Thank you for pointing out the need
for flexibility in testing and not to test students too much. That is
exactly what we are grappling with now, and the purpose of convening an
ad hoc committee of practitioners is to sort this out and make a
recommendation to the state.  We are considering the recommendations
from the publisher of TABE CLAS-E and we are trying to determine whether
their recommendations will fit our programs, and if so, how they can fit
best.

 

We currently have in place a state assessment policy that requires
programs that offer federally funded ESL courses to assess students in
both reading and listening with the CASAS.  There are exceptions to this
with students in the lowest level of the NRS levels.  

 

The state assessment policy also allows programs that offer the
federally funded ESL course to use BEST Plus and/or BEST Literacy.  We
do not require that programs assess students with both BEST Plus
(listening and speaking) and BEST Literacy (reading and writing).  

 

I hesitate to speak on behalf of the publishers of CASAS, TABE CLAS-E or
BEST to say what their viewpoints are on this question of how many skill
areas the state should require programs to test students in, but they
are well aware of our policy and we have had many conversations about it
that have been very helpful.  

 

The primary reason we think it is important to test students who are
enrolled in the main ESL course we offer (federally funded) in both
reading and listening is that we have found that the majority of the
ESOL population we serve has more difficulty with their listening skill
than their reading skill.  The reading test scores among our students
across the state are consistently higher than the listening scores.
There are exceptions, yes.  But overall, the trend points to a strong
need for the ESOL population in Florida to be able to understand spoken
English.  If we were to put in place a policy that advanced and reported
students based solely on a reading score, we would be seeing students
exit the 6 ESL levels faster.  In addition, we would be seeing students
who are still weak in the listening skill, but we would be unable to
serve them with our federal funds because they had exited out of the 6
ESL levels.  We believe that by having a policy that requires programs
to report student scores and to move them from one NRS level to the next
based on the lower of the two scores, we are ensuring that students are
able to get the most comprehensive education possible.  

 

Maybe I should have expanded by saying that Florida has several other
types of courses for ESL that do not need to use tests that are approved
for reporting to the NRS.  Testing for these courses is handled
differently.  These are courses that are funded with state dollars only,
and they are:  Literacy Skills for Adult ESOL Learners (for non-literate
students), Academic Skills for Adult ESOL Learners (for students that
are above Advanced ESL), Workplace Readiness Skills for Adult ESOL
Learners (for employed students with classes held at a place provided by
the employer), and Citizenship (to prepare for taking the USCIS
Naturalization test).  The Adult Education Workplace Readiness course
allows the school and the employer to choose the method of assessment
that best fits the employer's needs. A contract between the student,
school and employer is drawn up, and when the terms of the contract are
met, the state pays an established amount to the school for the
expenditure of its resources.  Of course, there are other types of
workplace educational services provided through schools that are funded
entirely by the employer, and these are not funded through adult
education.

 

Bottom line is that while we provide flexibility in assessment policy
for state-funded courses, for the main course that is federally funded
and which moves students through 6 levels with cut off scores at
different points, we have required that programs that use CASAS must
test students in both reading and listening to report a placement level
and to show progression.  There are exceptions to this with students in
the lowest level of the NRS levels.  

 

You can find our assessment Technical Assistance Paper and the
additional ESL courses we offer at our adult education
<http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp>  web page,
http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp. 

 

By the way, I know the Crawfordsville, IN, area well - I grew up in
Illinois but my grandmother was from Indiana so I had lots of relatives
there.  I think you have lots of covered bridges, right?  There is a
Crawfordville in Florida (no s), about 20 minutes from Tallahassee.  I
got my first exposure to teaching ESOL in the US in a small rural area
of IL (Kankakee Community College), with migrant farmworkers, in 1988.
What an experience!

 

Phil

(850) 245-9450

________________________________

From: Burger, Karen [mailto:kburger at cville.k12.in.us] 
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 3:26 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1449] Re: TABE CLAS-E

 

Phil,

Although I have not yet looked into the TABE CLAS-E, I find it
interesting that your state is looking at ESOL testing with regard to
how to level learners and which skill areas must be assessed.  Our state
policy allows for some flexibility in this for the following reasons.
First, if it is a workplace project, and the employer is requesting
instruction in a specific skill area, then that is the area assessed and
used for leveling the learner.  Also, some of our programs are very
small, have limit resources, staff, space and materials.  This can make
it difficult to assess learners in all areas.  Particularly in listening
because of the type of testing environment that it requires.  Further,
there are times that a learner may have the goal to improve skills in a
certain area.  Again, the goal would be set and the learner would only
need to be assessed in that area.  I hate to see too much restriction
that gets in the way of providing classes that suit our learners needs.
Sometimes it would seem that we test our people to death, don't you
think?  

 

We are thankful that our state leaders have chosen to provide us with
good structure and flexibility in the assessment policy.  Otherwise,
there are some programs that would find it difficult to comply with and
would not be able to report, or could not afford to serve some of our
ESL poplulation.   Good luck!

 

Karen Burger

Professional Development Consultant

Adult Education Professional Development Project

John Beard Learning Center

1601 East College Street

Crawfordsville, IN 47933

(765) 362-8158

Toll free (866) 977-9902

kburger at cville.k12.in.us 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Anderson, Philip [Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org]
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 1:03 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1448] Re: TABE CLAS-E

Kimberlee,

 

I'm glad to see your posting, since we at the state adult education
office in Florida are asking similar questions.  Florida has an ad hoc
committee on assessment that is working on a set of recommendations to
the state office on the adoption of TABE CLAS-E.  

 

Local programs may purchase and use the test if they choose to do so for
informational purposes, such as to guide instruction, and for purposes
that are not related to documentation for state and federal adult
education grants.  But until the FL Department of Education State Board
approves TABE CLAS-E to be used for reporting any placement or
progression based on test results to the state or the federal National
Reporting System (NRS).

 

At our statewide conference in September, we had a session on how to
select tests for adult education programs that was well attended.  I
developed an in-house guide and checklist on test selection, which we
provided to the participants.  I would be glad to send it offline to any
one that requests it.  

 

CTB McGraw Hill also provided us a planning/test selection tool they
developed. You may wish to request a copy of it from Dan Gall,
Dan_Gall at ctb.com, or Stephanie Seemann, Stephanie_Seemann at ctb.com.  They
have been very responsive to our queries.

 

The primary issue we are grappling with as a committee is whether to
recommend that the state assessment policy mandate that programs must
assess adult ESOL students in more than one skill area, and to report on
the lowest score of the skill areas tested.  

 

You can see our current state assessment technical assistance paper
online at the adult education webpage
<http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp>  of the Florida Department
of Education, http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp.  

 

Phil

 

CONTACT INFORMATION

Philip Anderson

Adult ESOL Program

Florida Department of Education

Tel (850) 245-9450

philip.anderson at fldoe.org

 

Please take a few minutes to provide feedback on the quality of service
you received from our staff. The Department of Education values your
feedback as a customer. Commissioner of Education Dr. Eric J. Smith is
committed to continuously assessing and improving the level and quality
of services provided to you. Simply click on the link to the "DOE
Customer Survey."  Thank you in advance for completing the survey. 

 

DOE Customer Survey
<http://data.fldoe.org/cs/default.cfm?staff=Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org|13
:03:35%20Fri%2031%20Oct%202008>  

 

  

________________________________

From: Bryant, Kimberlee [mailto:kbryant at tcsg.edu] 
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 1:17 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Cc: Marie Cora
Subject: [Assessment 1446] TABE CLAS-E

 

Hello Everyone,

 

I'll keep this short.

 

Since TABE CLAS-E was recently approved for use by OVAE, have any states
adopted it for use in FY09? Or are planning to in FY10?

 

If so, would you be willing to share the issues/concerns that came up
during this process (crafting the state assessment policy, training
local program staff members, etc.)? 

 

Based on this experience, what advice could you give to other states?

 

Kimberlee Bryant

Regional Education Coordinator

Instructional Services/Office of Adult Education

Technical College System of Georgia

 

 

________________________________

DISCLAIMER: The information in this message is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to
this message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended
recipient, any disclosure, copying, or distribution of the message, or
any action or omission taken by you in reliance on it, is prohibited and
may be unlawful. Please immediately contact the sender if you have
received this message in error.

-------------- next part --------------
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From RotariusN at michigan.gov  Mon Nov  3 10:36:36 2008
From: RotariusN at michigan.gov (Rotarius, Nancy (DLEG))
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 10:36:36 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1452] Re: TABE CLAS-E
In-Reply-To: <96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E1CF41A84@MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>
Message-ID: <8686FDB6810F1F43AE80A32DF882EE24036BB159@HCS084EXCHPE001.som.ad.state.mi.us>

I have been searching the OVAE site to verify that the TABE CLAS-E has
been approved.  Can someone point me in the right direction?

 

Nancy Rotarius, Ed.S.

Bureau of Workforce Transformation

201 N. Washington Square

Lansing, MI 48913

Phone: (517) 373-6911

Fax: (517) 335-3630

Email: rotariusn at michigan.gov <mailto:rotariusn at michigan.gov> 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Anderson, Philip
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 1:04 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1448] Re: TABE CLAS-E

 

Kimberlee,

 

I'm glad to see your posting, since we at the state adult education
office in Florida are asking similar questions.  Florida has an ad hoc
committee on assessment that is working on a set of recommendations to
the state office on the adoption of TABE CLAS-E.  

 

Local programs may purchase and use the test if they choose to do so for
informational purposes, such as to guide instruction, and for purposes
that are not related to documentation for state and federal adult
education grants.  But until the FL Department of Education State Board
approves TABE CLAS-E to be used for reporting any placement or
progression based on test results to the state or the federal National
Reporting System (NRS).

 

At our statewide conference in September, we had a session on how to
select tests for adult education programs that was well attended.  I
developed an in-house guide and checklist on test selection, which we
provided to the participants.  I would be glad to send it offline to any
one that requests it.  

 

CTB McGraw Hill also provided us a planning/test selection tool they
developed. You may wish to request a copy of it from Dan Gall,
Dan_Gall at ctb.com, or Stephanie Seemann, Stephanie_Seemann at ctb.com.  They
have been very responsive to our queries.

 

The primary issue we are grappling with as a committee is whether to
recommend that the state assessment policy mandate that programs must
assess adult ESOL students in more than one skill area, and to report on
the lowest score of the skill areas tested.  

 

You can see our current state assessment technical assistance paper
online at the adult education webpage
<http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp>  of the Florida Department
of Education, http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp.  

 

Phil

 

CONTACT INFORMATION

Philip Anderson

Adult ESOL Program

Florida Department of Education

Tel (850) 245-9450

philip.anderson at fldoe.org

 

Please take a few minutes to provide feedback on the quality of service
you received from our staff. The Department of Education values your
feedback as a customer. Commissioner of Education Dr. Eric J. Smith is
committed to continuously assessing and improving the level and quality
of services provided to you. Simply click on the link to the "DOE
Customer Survey."  Thank you in advance for completing the survey. 

 

DOE Customer Survey
<http://data.fldoe.org/cs/default.cfm?staff=Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org|13
:03:35%20Fri%2031%20Oct%202008>  

 

 

________________________________

From: Bryant, Kimberlee [mailto:kbryant at tcsg.edu] 
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 1:17 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Cc: Marie Cora
Subject: [Assessment 1446] TABE CLAS-E

 

Hello Everyone,

 

I'll keep this short.

 

Since TABE CLAS-E was recently approved for use by OVAE, have any states
adopted it for use in FY09? Or are planning to in FY10?

 

If so, would you be willing to share the issues/concerns that came up
during this process (crafting the state assessment policy, training
local program staff members, etc.)? 

 

Based on this experience, what advice could you give to other states?

 

Kimberlee Bryant

Regional Education Coordinator

Instructional Services/Office of Adult Education

Technical College System of Georgia

 

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From kbryant at tcsg.edu  Mon Nov  3 11:17:26 2008
From: kbryant at tcsg.edu (Bryant, Kimberlee)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 11:17:26 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1453] Re: TABE CLAS-E
In-Reply-To: <8686FDB6810F1F43AE80A32DF882EE24036BB159@HCS084EXCHPE001.som.ad.state.mi.us>
References: <96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E1CF41A84@MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>
	<8686FDB6810F1F43AE80A32DF882EE24036BB159@HCS084EXCHPE001.som.ad.state.mi.us>
Message-ID: <AD11DB73C0791B4DB82AC6F4FC7348A26B9C8A@mail2.co.dtae.org>

Nancy and all,

 

http://www.nrsweb.org/docs/DAELAccountabilityTeamMemo03-18-08.doc 

 

Kimberlee Bryant

Regional Education Coordinator

Instructional Services/Office of Adult Education

Technical College System of Georgia

1800 Century Place NE, Suite 300

Atlanta, GA 30345-4304

(404) 248-1060 direct

New Email Address: kbryant at tcsg.edu <mailto:kbryant at tcsg.edu> 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Rotarius, Nancy (DLEG)
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:37 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1452] Re: TABE CLAS-E

 

I have been searching the OVAE site to verify that the TABE CLAS-E has
been approved.  Can someone point me in the right direction?

 

Nancy Rotarius, Ed.S.

Bureau of Workforce Transformation

201 N. Washington Square

Lansing, MI 48913

Phone: (517) 373-6911

Fax: (517) 335-3630

Email: rotariusn at michigan.gov <mailto:rotariusn at michigan.gov> 

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From forrest at crosslink.net  Mon Nov  3 13:35:02 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 13:35:02 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1454] Re: TABE CLAS-E
In-Reply-To: <96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E1CF41B57@MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>
References: <E127BBFE2719D54580E9651B704C89C077EEAFBC49@CVILLEMAIL.cville.local>
	<96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E1CF41B57@MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>
Message-ID: <001701c93de2$e40054e0$ac00fea0$@net>

Dear all,

 

Bureaucratic considerations aside, if a state is concerned with the welfare
of both students and its economy why would it NOT want to place equal value
on all 4 ESL skills? "Levels" are inherently arbitrary. It distresses me
that standardized tests (and the NRS) may be debasing both curricula and
learning. For operational and accountability purposes, why not test each of
the 4 skills and report rates of progress in them separately? If you must
have promotion by levels, why not set the promotional scores for each level
at a point students in your mainstream programs can be expected to achieve
after a certain number of instructional hours? This would require some
restructuring at the curricular and program levels, but that is overdue in
any event. Thus, if students are strong on reading and weak on listening,
programs would devote more time to listening than reading. Alternatively,
some programs have developed supplementary short courses at each level for
students who are behind in each skill. 

 

Forrest Chisman

CAAL   

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Anderson, Philip
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:45 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1451] Re: TABE CLAS-E

 

Karen, 

 

I really appreciate your helpful thoughts.  Your voice is one that I will
share with our ad hoc committee, so they can hear from someone with similar
issues.  I heartily agree with you about trying to meet student goals
instead of state mandates.  Thank you for pointing out the need for
flexibility in testing and not to test students too much. That is exactly
what we are grappling with now, and the purpose of convening an ad hoc
committee of practitioners is to sort this out and make a recommendation to
the state.  We are considering the recommendations from the publisher of
TABE CLAS-E and we are trying to determine whether their recommendations
will fit our programs, and if so, how they can fit best.

 

We currently have in place a state assessment policy that requires programs
that offer federally funded ESL courses to assess students in both reading
and listening with the CASAS.  There are exceptions to this with students in
the lowest level of the NRS levels.  

 

The state assessment policy also allows programs that offer the federally
funded ESL course to use BEST Plus and/or BEST Literacy.  We do not require
that programs assess students with both BEST Plus (listening and speaking)
and BEST Literacy (reading and writing).  

 

I hesitate to speak on behalf of the publishers of CASAS, TABE CLAS-E or
BEST to say what their viewpoints are on this question of how many skill
areas the state should require programs to test students in, but they are
well aware of our policy and we have had many conversations about it that
have been very helpful.  

 

The primary reason we think it is important to test students who are
enrolled in the main ESL course we offer (federally funded) in both reading
and listening is that we have found that the majority of the ESOL population
we serve has more difficulty with their listening skill than their reading
skill.  The reading test scores among our students across the state are
consistently higher than the listening scores.  There are exceptions, yes.
But overall, the trend points to a strong need for the ESOL population in
Florida to be able to understand spoken English.  If we were to put in place
a policy that advanced and reported students based solely on a reading
score, we would be seeing students exit the 6 ESL levels faster.  In
addition, we would be seeing students who are still weak in the listening
skill, but we would be unable to serve them with our federal funds because
they had exited out of the 6 ESL levels.  We believe that by having a policy
that requires programs to report student scores and to move them from one
NRS level to the next based on the lower of the two scores, we are ensuring
that students are able to get the most comprehensive education possible.  

 

Maybe I should have expanded by saying that Florida has several other types
of courses for ESL that do not need to use tests that are approved for
reporting to the NRS.  Testing for these courses is handled differently.
These are courses that are funded with state dollars only, and they are:
Literacy Skills for Adult ESOL Learners (for non-literate students),
Academic Skills for Adult ESOL Learners (for students that are above
Advanced ESL), Workplace Readiness Skills for Adult ESOL Learners (for
employed students with classes held at a place provided by the employer),
and Citizenship (to prepare for taking the USCIS Naturalization test).  The
Adult Education Workplace Readiness course allows the school and the
employer to choose the method of assessment that best fits the employer's
needs. A contract between the student, school and employer is drawn up, and
when the terms of the contract are met, the state pays an established amount
to the school for the expenditure of its resources.  Of course, there are
other types of workplace educational services provided through schools that
are funded entirely by the employer, and these are not funded through adult
education.

 

Bottom line is that while we provide flexibility in assessment policy for
state-funded courses, for the main course that is federally funded and which
moves students through 6 levels with cut off scores at different points, we
have required that programs that use CASAS must test students in both
reading and listening to report a placement level and to show progression.
There are exceptions to this with students in the lowest level of the NRS
levels.  

 

You can find our assessment Technical Assistance Paper and the additional
ESL courses we offer at our adult education
<http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp>  web page,
http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp. 

 

By the way, I know the Crawfordsville, IN, area well - I grew up in Illinois
but my grandmother was from Indiana so I had lots of relatives there.  I
think you have lots of covered bridges, right?  There is a Crawfordville in
Florida (no s), about 20 minutes from Tallahassee.  I got my first exposure
to teaching ESOL in the US in a small rural area of IL (Kankakee Community
College), with migrant farmworkers, in 1988.  What an experience!

 

Phil

(850) 245-9450

  _____  

From: Burger, Karen [mailto:kburger at cville.k12.in.us] 
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 3:26 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1449] Re: TABE CLAS-E

 

Phil,

Although I have not yet looked into the TABE CLAS-E, I find it interesting
that your state is looking at ESOL testing with regard to how to level
learners and which skill areas must be assessed.  Our state policy allows
for some flexibility in this for the following reasons.  First, if it is a
workplace project, and the employer is requesting instruction in a specific
skill area, then that is the area assessed and used for leveling the
learner.  Also, some of our programs are very small, have limit resources,
staff, space and materials.  This can make it difficult to assess learners
in all areas.  Particularly in listening because of the type of testing
environment that it requires.  Further, there are times that a learner may
have the goal to improve skills in a certain area.  Again, the goal would be
set and the learner would only need to be assessed in that area.  I hate to
see too much restriction that gets in the way of providing classes that suit
our learners needs.  Sometimes it would seem that we test our people to
death, don't you think?  

 

We are thankful that our state leaders have chosen to provide us with good
structure and flexibility in the assessment policy.  Otherwise, there are
some programs that would find it difficult to comply with and would not be
able to report, or could not afford to serve some of our ESL poplulation.
Good luck!

 

Karen Burger

Professional Development Consultant

Adult Education Professional Development Project

John Beard Learning Center

1601 East College Street

Crawfordsville, IN 47933

(765) 362-8158

Toll free (866) 977-9902

kburger at cville.k12.in.us 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of
Anderson, Philip [Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org]
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 1:03 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1448] Re: TABE CLAS-E

Kimberlee,

 

I'm glad to see your posting, since we at the state adult education office
in Florida are asking similar questions.  Florida has an ad hoc committee on
assessment that is working on a set of recommendations to the state office
on the adoption of TABE CLAS-E.  

 

Local programs may purchase and use the test if they choose to do so for
informational purposes, such as to guide instruction, and for purposes that
are not related to documentation for state and federal adult education
grants.  But until the FL Department of Education State Board approves TABE
CLAS-E to be used for reporting any placement or progression based on test
results to the state or the federal National Reporting System (NRS).

 

At our statewide conference in September, we had a session on how to select
tests for adult education programs that was well attended.  I developed an
in-house guide and checklist on test selection, which we provided to the
participants.  I would be glad to send it offline to any one that requests
it.  

 

CTB McGraw Hill also provided us a planning/test selection tool they
developed. You may wish to request a copy of it from Dan Gall,
Dan_Gall at ctb.com, or Stephanie Seemann, Stephanie_Seemann at ctb.com.  They
have been very responsive to our queries.

 

The primary issue we are grappling with as a committee is whether to
recommend that the state assessment policy mandate that programs must assess
adult ESOL students in more than one skill area, and to report on the lowest
score of the skill areas tested.  

 

You can see our current state assessment technical assistance paper online
at the adult <http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp>  education
webpage of the Florida Department of Education,
http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp.  

 

Phil

 

CONTACT INFORMATION

Philip Anderson

Adult ESOL Program

Florida Department of Education

Tel (850) 245-9450

philip.anderson at fldoe.org

 

Please take a few minutes to provide feedback on the quality of service you
received from our staff. The Department of Education values your feedback as
a customer. Commissioner of Education Dr. Eric J. Smith is committed to
continuously assessing and improving the level and quality of services
provided to you. Simply click on the link to the "DOE Customer Survey."
Thank you in advance for completing the survey. 

 

DOE Customer Survey
<http://data.fldoe.org/cs/default.cfm?staff=Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org|13:03:
35%20Fri%2031%20Oct%202008>  

 

  

  _____  

From: Bryant, Kimberlee [mailto:kbryant at tcsg.edu] 
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 1:17 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Cc: Marie Cora
Subject: [Assessment 1446] TABE CLAS-E

 

Hello Everyone,

 

I'll keep this short.

 

Since TABE CLAS-E was recently approved for use by OVAE, have any states
adopted it for use in FY09? Or are planning to in FY10?

 

If so, would you be willing to share the issues/concerns that came up during
this process (crafting the state assessment policy, training local program
staff members, etc.)? 

 

Based on this experience, what advice could you give to other states?

 

Kimberlee Bryant

Regional Education Coordinator

Instructional Services/Office of Adult Education

Technical College System of Georgia

 

 

  _____  

DISCLAIMER: The information in this message is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this
message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended
recipient, any disclosure, copying, or distribution of the message, or any
action or omission taken by you in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be
unlawful. Please immediately contact the sender if you have received this
message in error.

-------------- next part --------------
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From hdooley at riral.org  Mon Nov  3 15:44:59 2008
From: hdooley at riral.org (Howard Dooley)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 15:44:59 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1455] Re: TABE CLAS-E
In-Reply-To: <001701c93de2$e40054e0$ac00fea0$@net>
References: <E127BBFE2719D54580E9651B704C89C077EEAFBC49@CVILLEMAIL.cville.local><96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E1CF41B57@MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>
	<001701c93de2$e40054e0$ac00fea0$@net>
Message-ID: <0BF2D0726318524ABEF6D58E7BB3CCEB285886@pdc.Riral.local>

Well said, Forrest.
 
Howard D.
RI

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:35 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1454] Re: TABE CLAS-E



Dear all,

 

Bureaucratic considerations aside, if a state is concerned with the
welfare of both students and its economy why would it NOT want to place
equal value on all 4 ESL skills? "Levels" are inherently arbitrary. It
distresses me that standardized tests (and the NRS) may be debasing both
curricula and learning. For operational and accountability purposes, why
not test each of the 4 skills and report rates of progress in them
separately? If you must have promotion by levels, why not set the
promotional scores for each level at a point students in your mainstream
programs can be expected to achieve after a certain number of
instructional hours? This would require some restructuring at the
curricular and program levels, but that is overdue in any event. Thus,
if students are strong on reading and weak on listening, programs would
devote more time to listening than reading. Alternatively, some programs
have developed supplementary short courses at each level for students
who are behind in each skill. 

 

Forrest Chisman

CAAL   

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Anderson, Philip
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:45 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1451] Re: TABE CLAS-E

 

Karen, 

 

I really appreciate your helpful thoughts.  Your voice is one that I
will share with our ad hoc committee, so they can hear from someone with
similar issues.  I heartily agree with you about trying to meet student
goals instead of state mandates.  Thank you for pointing out the need
for flexibility in testing and not to test students too much. That is
exactly what we are grappling with now, and the purpose of convening an
ad hoc committee of practitioners is to sort this out and make a
recommendation to the state.  We are considering the recommendations
from the publisher of TABE CLAS-E and we are trying to determine whether
their recommendations will fit our programs, and if so, how they can fit
best.

 

We currently have in place a state assessment policy that requires
programs that offer federally funded ESL courses to assess students in
both reading and listening with the CASAS.  There are exceptions to this
with students in the lowest level of the NRS levels.  

 

The state assessment policy also allows programs that offer the
federally funded ESL course to use BEST Plus and/or BEST Literacy.  We
do not require that programs assess students with both BEST Plus
(listening and speaking) and BEST Literacy (reading and writing).  

 

I hesitate to speak on behalf of the publishers of CASAS, TABE CLAS-E or
BEST to say what their viewpoints are on this question of how many skill
areas the state should require programs to test students in, but they
are well aware of our policy and we have had many conversations about it
that have been very helpful.  

 

The primary reason we think it is important to test students who are
enrolled in the main ESL course we offer (federally funded) in both
reading and listening is that we have found that the majority of the
ESOL population we serve has more difficulty with their listening skill
than their reading skill.  The reading test scores among our students
across the state are consistently higher than the listening scores.
There are exceptions, yes.  But overall, the trend points to a strong
need for the ESOL population in Florida to be able to understand spoken
English.  If we were to put in place a policy that advanced and reported
students based solely on a reading score, we would be seeing students
exit the 6 ESL levels faster.  In addition, we would be seeing students
who are still weak in the listening skill, but we would be unable to
serve them with our federal funds because they had exited out of the 6
ESL levels.  We believe that by having a policy that requires programs
to report student scores and to move them from one NRS level to the next
based on the lower of the two scores, we are ensuring that students are
able to get the most comprehensive education possible.  

 

Maybe I should have expanded by saying that Florida has several other
types of courses for ESL that do not need to use tests that are approved
for reporting to the NRS.  Testing for these courses is handled
differently.  These are courses that are funded with state dollars only,
and they are:  Literacy Skills for Adult ESOL Learners (for non-literate
students), Academic Skills for Adult ESOL Learners (for students that
are above Advanced ESL), Workplace Readiness Skills for Adult ESOL
Learners (for employed students with classes held at a place provided by
the employer), and Citizenship (to prepare for taking the USCIS
Naturalization test).  The Adult Education Workplace Readiness course
allows the school and the employer to choose the method of assessment
that best fits the employer's needs. A contract between the student,
school and employer is drawn up, and when the terms of the contract are
met, the state pays an established amount to the school for the
expenditure of its resources.  Of course, there are other types of
workplace educational services provided through schools that are funded
entirely by the employer, and these are not funded through adult
education.

 

Bottom line is that while we provide flexibility in assessment policy
for state-funded courses, for the main course that is federally funded
and which moves students through 6 levels with cut off scores at
different points, we have required that programs that use CASAS must
test students in both reading and listening to report a placement level
and to show progression.  There are exceptions to this with students in
the lowest level of the NRS levels.  

 

You can find our assessment Technical Assistance Paper and the
additional ESL courses we offer at our adult education
<http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp>  web page,
http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp. 

 

By the way, I know the Crawfordsville, IN, area well - I grew up in
Illinois but my grandmother was from Indiana so I had lots of relatives
there.  I think you have lots of covered bridges, right?  There is a
Crawfordville in Florida (no s), about 20 minutes from Tallahassee.  I
got my first exposure to teaching ESOL in the US in a small rural area
of IL (Kankakee Community College), with migrant farmworkers, in 1988.
What an experience!

 

Phil

(850) 245-9450

________________________________

From: Burger, Karen [mailto:kburger at cville.k12.in.us] 
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 3:26 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1449] Re: TABE CLAS-E

 

Phil,

Although I have not yet looked into the TABE CLAS-E, I find it
interesting that your state is looking at ESOL testing with regard to
how to level learners and which skill areas must be assessed.  Our state
policy allows for some flexibility in this for the following reasons.
First, if it is a workplace project, and the employer is requesting
instruction in a specific skill area, then that is the area assessed and
used for leveling the learner.  Also, some of our programs are very
small, have limit resources, staff, space and materials.  This can make
it difficult to assess learners in all areas.  Particularly in listening
because of the type of testing environment that it requires.  Further,
there are times that a learner may have the goal to improve skills in a
certain area.  Again, the goal would be set and the learner would only
need to be assessed in that area.  I hate to see too much restriction
that gets in the way of providing classes that suit our learners needs.
Sometimes it would seem that we test our people to death, don't you
think?  

 

We are thankful that our state leaders have chosen to provide us with
good structure and flexibility in the assessment policy.  Otherwise,
there are some programs that would find it difficult to comply with and
would not be able to report, or could not afford to serve some of our
ESL poplulation.   Good luck!

 

Karen Burger

Professional Development Consultant

Adult Education Professional Development Project

John Beard Learning Center

1601 East College Street

Crawfordsville, IN 47933

(765) 362-8158

Toll free (866) 977-9902

kburger at cville.k12.in.us 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Anderson, Philip [Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org]
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 1:03 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1448] Re: TABE CLAS-E

Kimberlee,

 

I'm glad to see your posting, since we at the state adult education
office in Florida are asking similar questions.  Florida has an ad hoc
committee on assessment that is working on a set of recommendations to
the state office on the adoption of TABE CLAS-E.  

 

Local programs may purchase and use the test if they choose to do so for
informational purposes, such as to guide instruction, and for purposes
that are not related to documentation for state and federal adult
education grants.  But until the FL Department of Education State Board
approves TABE CLAS-E to be used for reporting any placement or
progression based on test results to the state or the federal National
Reporting System (NRS).

 

At our statewide conference in September, we had a session on how to
select tests for adult education programs that was well attended.  I
developed an in-house guide and checklist on test selection, which we
provided to the participants.  I would be glad to send it offline to any
one that requests it.  

 

CTB McGraw Hill also provided us a planning/test selection tool they
developed. You may wish to request a copy of it from Dan Gall,
Dan_Gall at ctb.com, or Stephanie Seemann, Stephanie_Seemann at ctb.com.  They
have been very responsive to our queries.

 

The primary issue we are grappling with as a committee is whether to
recommend that the state assessment policy mandate that programs must
assess adult ESOL students in more than one skill area, and to report on
the lowest score of the skill areas tested.  

 

You can see our current state assessment technical assistance paper
online at the adult education webpage
<http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp>  of the Florida Department
of Education, http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp.  

 

Phil

 

CONTACT INFORMATION

Philip Anderson

Adult ESOL Program

Florida Department of Education

Tel (850) 245-9450

philip.anderson at fldoe.org

 

Please take a few minutes to provide feedback on the quality of service
you received from our staff. The Department of Education values your
feedback as a customer. Commissioner of Education Dr. Eric J. Smith is
committed to continuously assessing and improving the level and quality
of services provided to you. Simply click on the link to the "DOE
Customer Survey."  Thank you in advance for completing the survey. 

 

DOE Customer Survey
<http://data.fldoe.org/cs/default.cfm?staff=Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org|13
:03:35%20Fri%2031%20Oct%202008>  

 

  

________________________________

From: Bryant, Kimberlee [mailto:kbryant at tcsg.edu] 
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 1:17 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Cc: Marie Cora
Subject: [Assessment 1446] TABE CLAS-E

 

Hello Everyone,

 

I'll keep this short.

 

Since TABE CLAS-E was recently approved for use by OVAE, have any states
adopted it for use in FY09? Or are planning to in FY10?

 

If so, would you be willing to share the issues/concerns that came up
during this process (crafting the state assessment policy, training
local program staff members, etc.)? 

 

Based on this experience, what advice could you give to other states?

 

Kimberlee Bryant

Regional Education Coordinator

Instructional Services/Office of Adult Education

Technical College System of Georgia

 

 

________________________________

DISCLAIMER: The information in this message is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to
this message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended
recipient, any disclosure, copying, or distribution of the message, or
any action or omission taken by you in reliance on it, is prohibited and
may be unlawful. Please immediately contact the sender if you have
received this message in error.

-------------- next part --------------
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From kburger at cville.k12.in.us  Tue Nov  4 11:14:55 2008
From: kburger at cville.k12.in.us (Burger, Karen)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:14:55 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1456] Re: TABE CLAS-E
In-Reply-To: <0BF2D0726318524ABEF6D58E7BB3CCEB285886@pdc.Riral.local>
References: <E127BBFE2719D54580E9651B704C89C077EEAFBC49@CVILLEMAIL.cville.local><96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E1CF41B57@MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>
	<001701c93de2$e40054e0$ac00fea0$@net>
	<0BF2D0726318524ABEF6D58E7BB3CCEB285886@pdc.Riral.local>
Message-ID: <E127BBFE2719D54580E9651B704C89C077EE98BCC7@CVILLEMAIL.cville.local>

Hello everyone,

Forrest, you make a good point, but let's not mistake assessment for good instructional practices.  Any ESL teacher would or should agree that you don't isolate skills day after day in the classroom.  Although we assess in one or two areas for reporting purposes, we teach all four components of language, and a fifth - cultural literacy.  My concern is that a mandate to assess all areas with a standardized test will frustrate learners and hurt our programs.  A learner can only be nationally reported for one level gain in one area per program year anyway, so let's not over do it with the testing during the intake process, but rather, use other assessment tools during the instructional process to determine what our students' strengths and weaknesses are.

I fully agree that we are doing our learners a disservice if we only teach to one skill area and then send them on their way.  Language is communication and requires all components, reading, writing, listening and speaking, to be effective.  Merely administering another test has never resulted in more learning taking place.  And tests don't always give the full picture.  They are just one measure of what the learner has achieved.  Teachers, good teachers are the experts when it comes to really understanding what their learners know.  They need to be able to continually assess their learners and customized their instruction to meet individual and classroom needs.  I hope we don't get so focused on standardized testing that we forget that.

Karen Burger
Professional Development Consultant
Adult Education Professional Development Project
John Beard Learning Center
1601 East College St.
Crawfordsville, IN 47933
(765) 362-8158
(866) 977-9902
kburger at cville.k12.in.us

________________________________
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Howard Dooley
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 3:45 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1455] Re: TABE CLAS-E

Well said, Forrest.

Howard D.
RI

________________________________
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:35 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1454] Re: TABE CLAS-E
Dear all,

Bureaucratic considerations aside, if a state is concerned with the welfare of both students and its economy why would it NOT want to place equal value on all 4 ESL skills? "Levels" are inherently arbitrary. It distresses me that standardized tests (and the NRS) may be debasing both curricula and learning. For operational and accountability purposes, why not test each of the 4 skills and report rates of progress in them separately? If you must have promotion by levels, why not set the promotional scores for each level at a point students in your mainstream programs can be expected to achieve after a certain number of instructional hours? This would require some restructuring at the curricular and program levels, but that is overdue in any event. Thus, if students are strong on reading and weak on listening, programs would devote more time to listening than reading. Alternatively, some programs have developed supplementary short courses at each level for students who are behind in each skill.

Forrest Chisman
CAAL

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Anderson, Philip
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:45 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1451] Re: TABE CLAS-E

Karen,

I really appreciate your helpful thoughts.  Your voice is one that I will share with our ad hoc committee, so they can hear from someone with similar issues.  I heartily agree with you about trying to meet student goals instead of state mandates.  Thank you for pointing out the need for flexibility in testing and not to test students too much. That is exactly what we are grappling with now, and the purpose of convening an ad hoc committee of practitioners is to sort this out and make a recommendation to the state.  We are considering the recommendations from the publisher of TABE CLAS-E and we are trying to determine whether their recommendations will fit our programs, and if so, how they can fit best.

We currently have in place a state assessment policy that requires programs that offer federally funded ESL courses to assess students in both reading and listening with the CASAS.  There are exceptions to this with students in the lowest level of the NRS levels.

The state assessment policy also allows programs that offer the federally funded ESL course to use BEST Plus and/or BEST Literacy.  We do not require that programs assess students with both BEST Plus (listening and speaking) and BEST Literacy (reading and writing).

I hesitate to speak on behalf of the publishers of CASAS, TABE CLAS-E or BEST to say what their viewpoints are on this question of how many skill areas the state should require programs to test students in, but they are well aware of our policy and we have had many conversations about it that have been very helpful.

The primary reason we think it is important to test students who are enrolled in the main ESL course we offer (federally funded) in both reading and listening is that we have found that the majority of the ESOL population we serve has more difficulty with their listening skill than their reading skill.  The reading test scores among our students across the state are consistently higher than the listening scores.  There are exceptions, yes.  But overall, the trend points to a strong need for the ESOL population in Florida to be able to understand spoken English.  If we were to put in place a policy that advanced and reported students based solely on a reading score, we would be seeing students exit the 6 ESL levels faster.  In addition, we would be seeing students who are still weak in the listening skill, but we would be unable to serve them with our federal funds because they had exited out of the 6 ESL levels.  We believe that by having a policy that requires programs to report student scores and to move them from one NRS level to the next based on the lower of the two scores, we are ensuring that students are able to get the most comprehensive education possible.

Maybe I should have expanded by saying that Florida has several other types of courses for ESL that do not need to use tests that are approved for reporting to the NRS.  Testing for these courses is handled differently.  These are courses that are funded with state dollars only, and they are:  Literacy Skills for Adult ESOL Learners (for non-literate students), Academic Skills for Adult ESOL Learners (for students that are above Advanced ESL), Workplace Readiness Skills for Adult ESOL Learners (for employed students with classes held at a place provided by the employer), and Citizenship (to prepare for taking the USCIS Naturalization test).  The Adult Education Workplace Readiness course allows the school and the employer to choose the method of assessment that best fits the employer's needs. A contract between the student, school and employer is drawn up, and when the terms of the contract are met, the state pays an established amount to the school for the expenditure of its resources.  Of course, there are other types of workplace educational services provided through schools that are funded entirely by the employer, and these are not funded through adult education.

Bottom line is that while we provide flexibility in assessment policy for state-funded courses, for the main course that is federally funded and which moves students through 6 levels with cut off scores at different points, we have required that programs that use CASAS must test students in both reading and listening to report a placement level and to show progression.  There are exceptions to this with students in the lowest level of the NRS levels.

You can find our assessment Technical Assistance Paper and the additional ESL courses we offer at our adult education<http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp> web page, http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp.

By the way, I know the Crawfordsville, IN, area well - I grew up in Illinois but my grandmother was from Indiana so I had lots of relatives there.  I think you have lots of covered bridges, right?  There is a Crawfordville in Florida (no s), about 20 minutes from Tallahassee.  I got my first exposure to teaching ESOL in the US in a small rural area of IL (Kankakee Community College), with migrant farmworkers, in 1988.  What an experience!

Phil
(850) 245-9450
________________________________
From: Burger, Karen [mailto:kburger at cville.k12.in.us]
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 3:26 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1449] Re: TABE CLAS-E

Phil,
Although I have not yet looked into the TABE CLAS-E, I find it interesting that your state is looking at ESOL testing with regard to how to level learners and which skill areas must be assessed.  Our state policy allows for some flexibility in this for the following reasons.  First, if it is a workplace project, and the employer is requesting instruction in a specific skill area, then that is the area assessed and used for leveling the learner.  Also, some of our programs are very small, have limit resources, staff, space and materials.  This can make it difficult to assess learners in all areas.  Particularly in listening because of the type of testing environment that it requires.  Further, there are times that a learner may have the goal to improve skills in a certain area.  Again, the goal would be set and the learner would only need to be assessed in that area.  I hate to see too much restriction that gets in the way of providing classes that suit our learners needs.  Sometimes it would seem that we test our people to death, don't you think?

We are thankful that our state leaders have chosen to provide us with good structure and flexibility in the assessment policy.  Otherwise, there are some programs that would find it difficult to comply with and would not be able to report, or could not afford to serve some of our ESL poplulation.   Good luck!

Karen Burger
Professional Development Consultant
Adult Education Professional Development Project
John Beard Learning Center
1601 East College Street
Crawfordsville, IN 47933
(765) 362-8158
Toll free (866) 977-9902
kburger at cville.k12.in.us<mailto:kburger at cville.k12.in.us>
________________________________
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Anderson, Philip [Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org]
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 1:03 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1448] Re: TABE CLAS-E
Kimberlee,

I'm glad to see your posting, since we at the state adult education office in Florida are asking similar questions.  Florida has an ad hoc committee on assessment that is working on a set of recommendations to the state office on the adoption of TABE CLAS-E.

Local programs may purchase and use the test if they choose to do so for informational purposes, such as to guide instruction, and for purposes that are not related to documentation for state and federal adult education grants.  But until the FL Department of Education State Board approves TABE CLAS-E to be used for reporting any placement or progression based on test results to the state or the federal National Reporting System (NRS).

At our statewide conference in September, we had a session on how to select tests for adult education programs that was well attended.  I developed an in-house guide and checklist on test selection, which we provided to the participants.  I would be glad to send it offline to any one that requests it.

CTB McGraw Hill also provided us a planning/test selection tool they developed. You may wish to request a copy of it from Dan Gall, Dan_Gall at ctb.com<mailto:Dan_Gall at ctb.com>, or Stephanie Seemann, Stephanie_Seemann at ctb.com<mailto:Stephanie_Seemann at ctb.com>.  They have been very responsive to our queries.

The primary issue we are grappling with as a committee is whether to recommend that the state assessment policy mandate that programs must assess adult ESOL students in more than one skill area, and to report on the lowest score of the skill areas tested.

You can see our current state assessment technical assistance paper online at the adult education webpage<http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp> of the Florida Department of Education, http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp.

Phil

CONTACT INFORMATION
Philip Anderson
Adult ESOL Program
Florida Department of Education
Tel (850) 245-9450
philip.anderson at fldoe.org

Please take a few minutes to provide feedback on the quality of service you received from our staff. The Department of Education values your feedback as a customer. Commissioner of Education Dr. Eric J. Smith is committed to continuously assessing and improving the level and quality of services provided to you. Simply click on the link to the "DOE Customer Survey."  Thank you in advance for completing the survey.

DOE Customer Survey<http://data.fldoe.org/cs/default.cfm?staff=Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org|13:03:35%20Fri%2031%20Oct%202008>


________________________________
From: Bryant, Kimberlee [mailto:kbryant at tcsg.edu]
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 1:17 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Cc: Marie Cora
Subject: [Assessment 1446] TABE CLAS-E

Hello Everyone,

I'll keep this short.

Since TABE CLAS-E was recently approved for use by OVAE, have any states adopted it for use in FY09? Or are planning to in FY10?

If so, would you be willing to share the issues/concerns that came up during this process (crafting the state assessment policy, training local program staff members, etc.)?

Based on this experience, what advice could you give to other states?

Kimberlee Bryant
Regional Education Coordinator
Instructional Services/Office of Adult Education
Technical College System of Georgia


________________________________
DISCLAIMER: The information in this message is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, or distribution of the message, or any action or omission taken by you in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Please immediately contact the sender if you have received this message in error.
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From forrest at crosslink.net  Tue Nov  4 16:08:49 2008
From: forrest at crosslink.net (Forrest Chisman)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:08:49 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1457] Re: TABE CLAS-E
In-Reply-To: <E127BBFE2719D54580E9651B704C89C077EE98BCC7@CVILLEMAIL.cville.local>
References: <E127BBFE2719D54580E9651B704C89C077EEAFBC49@CVILLEMAIL.cville.local><96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E1CF41B57@MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>	<001701c93de2$e40054e0$ac00fea0$@net>	<0BF2D0726318524ABEF6D58E7BB3CCEB285886@pdc.Riral.local>
	<E127BBFE2719D54580E9651B704C89C077EE98BCC7@CVILLEMAIL.cville.local>
Message-ID: <001a01c93ec1$89a434a0$9cec9de0$@net>

Dear Karen,

 

I think we agree. But I think there are three different assessment issues,
and I also think that they sometimes get confused. The first is the NRS. We
all know that this does a poor job of measuring what programs teach and
students learn - especially in ESL. We can either live with it and ignore
it, or (better) try to get DOE in the next administration to improve it.
Where I think we get into trouble is when we start designing programs to
meet its requirements in any serious way - and that does happen, as you
know.  The second issue consists of state level assessments. Because all of
AE is primarily a state-based system, they matter more than the NRS. And I
think states need to know how well students are doing on all 4 core ESL
skills - as well as math (which is too seldom discussed or measured) - to
know how best to allocate resources. For these purposes, I don't think they
have to adopt the NRS levels or use the nationally standardized tests. That
is, they should not be slaves to the NRS. I'm encouraged that a growing
number of states are publishing curricular frameworks. Assessments based on
THOSE seem to me the best way to go. But I agree with you about the dangers
of over-testing. The third issue consists of program level assessments. I
agree with you that teachers - ideally teachers working collegially within a
program to reach common understandings - are the key to these. I only wish
there was a greater investment in helping ALL teachers to do this as well as
possible, and in giving them the time to work on these and other program
issues as a team.

 

Forrest         

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Burger, Karen
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 11:15 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1456] Re: TABE CLAS-E

 

Hello everyone,

 

Forrest, you make a good point, but let's not mistake assessment for good
instructional practices.  Any ESL teacher would or should agree that you
don't isolate skills day after day in the classroom.  Although we assess in
one or two areas for reporting purposes, we teach all four components of
language, and a fifth - cultural literacy.  My concern is that a mandate to
assess all areas with a standardized test will frustrate learners and hurt
our programs.  A learner can only be nationally reported for one level gain
in one area per program year anyway, so let's not over do it with the
testing during the intake process, but rather, use other assessment tools
during the instructional process to determine what our students' strengths
and weaknesses are.  

 

I fully agree that we are doing our learners a disservice if we only teach
to one skill area and then send them on their way.  Language is
communication and requires all components, reading, writing, listening and
speaking, to be effective.  Merely administering another test has never
resulted in more learning taking place.  And tests don't always give the
full picture.  They are just one measure of what the learner has achieved.
Teachers, good teachers are the experts when it comes to really
understanding what their learners know.  They need to be able to continually
assess their learners and customized their instruction to meet individual
and classroom needs.  I hope we don't get so focused on standardized testing
that we forget that.

 

Karen Burger

Professional Development Consultant

Adult Education Professional Development Project

John Beard Learning Center

1601 East College St.
Crawfordsville, IN 47933

(765) 362-8158

(866) 977-9902

kburger at cville.k12.in.us

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Howard Dooley
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 3:45 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1455] Re: TABE CLAS-E

 

Well said, Forrest.

 

Howard D.

RI

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:35 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1454] Re: TABE CLAS-E

Dear all,

 

Bureaucratic considerations aside, if a state is concerned with the welfare
of both students and its economy why would it NOT want to place equal value
on all 4 ESL skills? "Levels" are inherently arbitrary. It distresses me
that standardized tests (and the NRS) may be debasing both curricula and
learning. For operational and accountability purposes, why not test each of
the 4 skills and report rates of progress in them separately? If you must
have promotion by levels, why not set the promotional scores for each level
at a point students in your mainstream programs can be expected to achieve
after a certain number of instructional hours? This would require some
restructuring at the curricular and program levels, but that is overdue in
any event. Thus, if students are strong on reading and weak on listening,
programs would devote more time to listening than reading. Alternatively,
some programs have developed supplementary short courses at each level for
students who are behind in each skill. 

 

Forrest Chisman

CAAL   

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Anderson, Philip
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:45 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1451] Re: TABE CLAS-E

 

Karen, 

 

I really appreciate your helpful thoughts.  Your voice is one that I will
share with our ad hoc committee, so they can hear from someone with similar
issues.  I heartily agree with you about trying to meet student goals
instead of state mandates.  Thank you for pointing out the need for
flexibility in testing and not to test students too much. That is exactly
what we are grappling with now, and the purpose of convening an ad hoc
committee of practitioners is to sort this out and make a recommendation to
the state.  We are considering the recommendations from the publisher of
TABE CLAS-E and we are trying to determine whether their recommendations
will fit our programs, and if so, how they can fit best.

 

We currently have in place a state assessment policy that requires programs
that offer federally funded ESL courses to assess students in both reading
and listening with the CASAS.  There are exceptions to this with students in
the lowest level of the NRS levels.  

 

The state assessment policy also allows programs that offer the federally
funded ESL course to use BEST Plus and/or BEST Literacy.  We do not require
that programs assess students with both BEST Plus (listening and speaking)
and BEST Literacy (reading and writing).  

 

I hesitate to speak on behalf of the publishers of CASAS, TABE CLAS-E or
BEST to say what their viewpoints are on this question of how many skill
areas the state should require programs to test students in, but they are
well aware of our policy and we have had many conversations about it that
have been very helpful.  

 

The primary reason we think it is important to test students who are
enrolled in the main ESL course we offer (federally funded) in both reading
and listening is that we have found that the majority of the ESOL population
we serve has more difficulty with their listening skill than their reading
skill.  The reading test scores among our students across the state are
consistently higher than the listening scores.  There are exceptions, yes.
But overall, the trend points to a strong need for the ESOL population in
Florida to be able to understand spoken English.  If we were to put in place
a policy that advanced and reported students based solely on a reading
score, we would be seeing students exit the 6 ESL levels faster.  In
addition, we would be seeing students who are still weak in the listening
skill, but we would be unable to serve them with our federal funds because
they had exited out of the 6 ESL levels.  We believe that by having a policy
that requires programs to report student scores and to move them from one
NRS level to the next based on the lower of the two scores, we are ensuring
that students are able to get the most comprehensive education possible.  

 

Maybe I should have expanded by saying that Florida has several other types
of courses for ESL that do not need to use tests that are approved for
reporting to the NRS.  Testing for these courses is handled differently.
These are courses that are funded with state dollars only, and they are:
Literacy Skills for Adult ESOL Learners (for non-literate students),
Academic Skills for Adult ESOL Learners (for students that are above
Advanced ESL), Workplace Readiness Skills for Adult ESOL Learners (for
employed students with classes held at a place provided by the employer),
and Citizenship (to prepare for taking the USCIS Naturalization test).  The
Adult Education Workplace Readiness course allows the school and the
employer to choose the method of assessment that best fits the employer's
needs. A contract between the student, school and employer is drawn up, and
when the terms of the contract are met, the state pays an established amount
to the school for the expenditure of its resources.  Of course, there are
other types of workplace educational services provided through schools that
are funded entirely by the employer, and these are not funded through adult
education.

 

Bottom line is that while we provide flexibility in assessment policy for
state-funded courses, for the main course that is federally funded and which
moves students through 6 levels with cut off scores at different points, we
have required that programs that use CASAS must test students in both
reading and listening to report a placement level and to show progression.
There are exceptions to this with students in the lowest level of the NRS
levels.  

 

You can find our assessment Technical Assistance Paper and the additional
ESL courses we offer at our adult education
<http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp>  web page,
http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp. 

 

By the way, I know the Crawfordsville, IN, area well - I grew up in Illinois
but my grandmother was from Indiana so I had lots of relatives there.  I
think you have lots of covered bridges, right?  There is a Crawfordville in
Florida (no s), about 20 minutes from Tallahassee.  I got my first exposure
to teaching ESOL in the US in a small rural area of IL (Kankakee Community
College), with migrant farmworkers, in 1988.  What an experience!

 

Phil

(850) 245-9450

  _____  

From: Burger, Karen [mailto:kburger at cville.k12.in.us] 
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 3:26 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1449] Re: TABE CLAS-E

 

Phil,

Although I have not yet looked into the TABE CLAS-E, I find it interesting
that your state is looking at ESOL testing with regard to how to level
learners and which skill areas must be assessed.  Our state policy allows
for some flexibility in this for the following reasons.  First, if it is a
workplace project, and the employer is requesting instruction in a specific
skill area, then that is the area assessed and used for leveling the
learner.  Also, some of our programs are very small, have limit resources,
staff, space and materials.  This can make it difficult to assess learners
in all areas.  Particularly in listening because of the type of testing
environment that it requires.  Further, there are times that a learner may
have the goal to improve skills in a certain area.  Again, the goal would be
set and the learner would only need to be assessed in that area.  I hate to
see too much restriction that gets in the way of providing classes that suit
our learners needs.  Sometimes it would seem that we test our people to
death, don't you think?  

 

We are thankful that our state leaders have chosen to provide us with good
structure and flexibility in the assessment policy.  Otherwise, there are
some programs that would find it difficult to comply with and would not be
able to report, or could not afford to serve some of our ESL poplulation.
Good luck!

 

Karen Burger

Professional Development Consultant

Adult Education Professional Development Project

John Beard Learning Center

1601 East College Street

Crawfordsville, IN 47933

(765) 362-8158

Toll free (866) 977-9902

kburger at cville.k12.in.us 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of
Anderson, Philip [Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org]
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 1:03 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1448] Re: TABE CLAS-E

Kimberlee,

 

I'm glad to see your posting, since we at the state adult education office
in Florida are asking similar questions.  Florida has an ad hoc committee on
assessment that is working on a set of recommendations to the state office
on the adoption of TABE CLAS-E.  

 

Local programs may purchase and use the test if they choose to do so for
informational purposes, such as to guide instruction, and for purposes that
are not related to documentation for state and federal adult education
grants.  But until the FL Department of Education State Board approves TABE
CLAS-E to be used for reporting any placement or progression based on test
results to the state or the federal National Reporting System (NRS).

 

At our statewide conference in September, we had a session on how to select
tests for adult education programs that was well attended.  I developed an
in-house guide and checklist on test selection, which we provided to the
participants.  I would be glad to send it offline to any one that requests
it.  

 

CTB McGraw Hill also provided us a planning/test selection tool they
developed. You may wish to request a copy of it from Dan Gall,
Dan_Gall at ctb.com, or Stephanie Seemann, Stephanie_Seemann at ctb.com.  They
have been very responsive to our queries.

 

The primary issue we are grappling with as a committee is whether to
recommend that the state assessment policy mandate that programs must assess
adult ESOL students in more than one skill area, and to report on the lowest
score of the skill areas tested.  

 

You can see our current state assessment technical assistance paper online
at the adult <http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp>  education
webpage of the Florida Department of Education,
http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp.  

 

Phil

 

CONTACT INFORMATION

Philip Anderson

Adult ESOL Program

Florida Department of Education

Tel (850) 245-9450

philip.anderson at fldoe.org

 

Please take a few minutes to provide feedback on the quality of service you
received from our staff. The Department of Education values your feedback as
a customer. Commissioner of Education Dr. Eric J. Smith is committed to
continuously assessing and improving the level and quality of services
provided to you. Simply click on the link to the "DOE Customer Survey."
Thank you in advance for completing the survey. 

 

DOE Customer Survey
<http://data.fldoe.org/cs/default.cfm?staff=Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org|13:03:
35%20Fri%2031%20Oct%202008>  

 

  

  _____  

From: Bryant, Kimberlee [mailto:kbryant at tcsg.edu] 
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 1:17 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Cc: Marie Cora
Subject: [Assessment 1446] TABE CLAS-E

 

Hello Everyone,

 

I'll keep this short.

 

Since TABE CLAS-E was recently approved for use by OVAE, have any states
adopted it for use in FY09? Or are planning to in FY10?

 

If so, would you be willing to share the issues/concerns that came up during
this process (crafting the state assessment policy, training local program
staff members, etc.)? 

 

Based on this experience, what advice could you give to other states?

 

Kimberlee Bryant

Regional Education Coordinator

Instructional Services/Office of Adult Education

Technical College System of Georgia

 

 

  _____  

DISCLAIMER: The information in this message is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this
message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended
recipient, any disclosure, copying, or distribution of the message, or any
action or omission taken by you in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be
unlawful. Please immediately contact the sender if you have received this
message in error.

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From kburger at cville.k12.in.us  Tue Nov  4 17:08:01 2008
From: kburger at cville.k12.in.us (Burger, Karen)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 17:08:01 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1458] Re: TABE CLAS-E
In-Reply-To: <001a01c93ec1$89a434a0$9cec9de0$@net>
References: <E127BBFE2719D54580E9651B704C89C077EEAFBC49@CVILLEMAIL.cville.local><96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E1CF41B57@MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>
	<001701c93de2$e40054e0$ac00fea0$@net>
	<0BF2D0726318524ABEF6D58E7BB3CCEB285886@pdc.Riral.local>
	<E127BBFE2719D54580E9651B704C89C077EE98BCC7@CVILLEMAIL.cville.local>
	<001a01c93ec1$89a434a0$9cec9de0$@net>
Message-ID: <E127BBFE2719D54580E9651B704C89C077EE98BCD7@CVILLEMAIL.cville.local>

Hello Forrest,

Absolutely, you are correct, sir.  We do agree.  If I sounded a bit excited it's probably because I am a little sensitive about standardized assessments at this point.  Our professional development team just completed an addendum for the state assessment policy.  I never like to see us get so focused on the "big picture" that we forget our learners' needs and goals.  Too many are slaves to the NRS.  We do see the need for a good accountability system, at the same time we recognize that there are regional differences in our populations and delivery systems, not to mention funding.  Right now we are working on content standards for adult education and hope this will be a good framework for sound curriculum at the program level.  There are so many good teachers out there.  I too would like to see a more vested interest in helping teachers do their jobs, rather than imposing more requirements on them.

Thank you for your comments, Forrest.

Karen

________________________________
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:09 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1457] Re: TABE CLAS-E

Dear Karen,

I think we agree. But I think there are three different assessment issues, and I also think that they sometimes get confused. The first is the NRS. We all know that this does a poor job of measuring what programs teach and students learn - especially in ESL. We can either live with it and ignore it, or (better) try to get DOE in the next administration to improve it. Where I think we get into trouble is when we start designing programs to meet its requirements in any serious way - and that does happen, as you know.  The second issue consists of state level assessments. Because all of AE is primarily a state-based system, they matter more than the NRS. And I think states need to know how well students are doing on all 4 core ESL skills - as well as math (which is too seldom discussed or measured) - to know how best to allocate resources. For these purposes, I don't think they have to adopt the NRS levels or use the nationally standardized tests. That is, they should not be slaves to the NRS. I'm encouraged that a growing number of states are publishing curricular frameworks. Assessments based on THOSE seem to me the best way to go. But I agree with you about the dangers of over-testing. The third issue consists of program level assessments. I agree with you that teachers - ideally teachers working collegially within a program to reach common understandings - are the key to these. I only wish there was a greater investment in helping ALL teachers to do this as well as possible, and in giving them the time to work on these and other program issues as a team.

Forrest
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Burger, Karen
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 11:15 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1456] Re: TABE CLAS-E

Hello everyone,

Forrest, you make a good point, but let's not mistake assessment for good instructional practices.  Any ESL teacher would or should agree that you don't isolate skills day after day in the classroom.  Although we assess in one or two areas for reporting purposes, we teach all four components of language, and a fifth - cultural literacy.  My concern is that a mandate to assess all areas with a standardized test will frustrate learners and hurt our programs.  A learner can only be nationally reported for one level gain in one area per program year anyway, so let's not over do it with the testing during the intake process, but rather, use other assessment tools during the instructional process to determine what our students' strengths and weaknesses are.

I fully agree that we are doing our learners a disservice if we only teach to one skill area and then send them on their way.  Language is communication and requires all components, reading, writing, listening and speaking, to be effective.  Merely administering another test has never resulted in more learning taking place.  And tests don't always give the full picture.  They are just one measure of what the learner has achieved.  Teachers, good teachers are the experts when it comes to really understanding what their learners know.  They need to be able to continually assess their learners and customized their instruction to meet individual and classroom needs.  I hope we don't get so focused on standardized testing that we forget that.

Karen Burger
Professional Development Consultant
Adult Education Professional Development Project
John Beard Learning Center
1601 East College St.
Crawfordsville, IN 47933
(765) 362-8158
(866) 977-9902
kburger at cville.k12.in.us

________________________________
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Howard Dooley
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 3:45 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1455] Re: TABE CLAS-E

Well said, Forrest.

Howard D.
RI

________________________________
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:35 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1454] Re: TABE CLAS-E
Dear all,

Bureaucratic considerations aside, if a state is concerned with the welfare of both students and its economy why would it NOT want to place equal value on all 4 ESL skills? "Levels" are inherently arbitrary. It distresses me that standardized tests (and the NRS) may be debasing both curricula and learning. For operational and accountability purposes, why not test each of the 4 skills and report rates of progress in them separately? If you must have promotion by levels, why not set the promotional scores for each level at a point students in your mainstream programs can be expected to achieve after a certain number of instructional hours? This would require some restructuring at the curricular and program levels, but that is overdue in any event. Thus, if students are strong on reading and weak on listening, programs would devote more time to listening than reading. Alternatively, some programs have developed supplementary short courses at each level for students who are behind in each skill.

Forrest Chisman
CAAL

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Anderson, Philip
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:45 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1451] Re: TABE CLAS-E

Karen,

I really appreciate your helpful thoughts.  Your voice is one that I will share with our ad hoc committee, so they can hear from someone with similar issues.  I heartily agree with you about trying to meet student goals instead of state mandates.  Thank you for pointing out the need for flexibility in testing and not to test students too much. That is exactly what we are grappling with now, and the purpose of convening an ad hoc committee of practitioners is to sort this out and make a recommendation to the state.  We are considering the recommendations from the publisher of TABE CLAS-E and we are trying to determine whether their recommendations will fit our programs, and if so, how they can fit best.

We currently have in place a state assessment policy that requires programs that offer federally funded ESL courses to assess students in both reading and listening with the CASAS.  There are exceptions to this with students in the lowest level of the NRS levels.

The state assessment policy also allows programs that offer the federally funded ESL course to use BEST Plus and/or BEST Literacy.  We do not require that programs assess students with both BEST Plus (listening and speaking) and BEST Literacy (reading and writing).

I hesitate to speak on behalf of the publishers of CASAS, TABE CLAS-E or BEST to say what their viewpoints are on this question of how many skill areas the state should require programs to test students in, but they are well aware of our policy and we have had many conversations about it that have been very helpful.

The primary reason we think it is important to test students who are enrolled in the main ESL course we offer (federally funded) in both reading and listening is that we have found that the majority of the ESOL population we serve has more difficulty with their listening skill than their reading skill.  The reading test scores among our students across the state are consistently higher than the listening scores.  There are exceptions, yes.  But overall, the trend points to a strong need for the ESOL population in Florida to be able to understand spoken English.  If we were to put in place a policy that advanced and reported students based solely on a reading score, we would be seeing students exit the 6 ESL levels faster.  In addition, we would be seeing students who are still weak in the listening skill, but we would be unable to serve them with our federal funds because they had exited out of the 6 ESL levels.  We believe that by having a policy that requires programs to report student scores and to move them from one NRS level to the next based on the lower of the two scores, we are ensuring that students are able to get the most comprehensive education possible.

Maybe I should have expanded by saying that Florida has several other types of courses for ESL that do not need to use tests that are approved for reporting to the NRS.  Testing for these courses is handled differently.  These are courses that are funded with state dollars only, and they are:  Literacy Skills for Adult ESOL Learners (for non-literate students), Academic Skills for Adult ESOL Learners (for students that are above Advanced ESL), Workplace Readiness Skills for Adult ESOL Learners (for employed students with classes held at a place provided by the employer), and Citizenship (to prepare for taking the USCIS Naturalization test).  The Adult Education Workplace Readiness course allows the school and the employer to choose the method of assessment that best fits the employer's needs. A contract between the student, school and employer is drawn up, and when the terms of the contract are met, the state pays an established amount to the school for the expenditure of its resources.  Of course, there are other types of workplace educational services provided through schools that are funded entirely by the employer, and these are not funded through adult education.

Bottom line is that while we provide flexibility in assessment policy for state-funded courses, for the main course that is federally funded and which moves students through 6 levels with cut off scores at different points, we have required that programs that use CASAS must test students in both reading and listening to report a placement level and to show progression.  There are exceptions to this with students in the lowest level of the NRS levels.

You can find our assessment Technical Assistance Paper and the additional ESL courses we offer at our adult education<http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp> web page, http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp.

By the way, I know the Crawfordsville, IN, area well - I grew up in Illinois but my grandmother was from Indiana so I had lots of relatives there.  I think you have lots of covered bridges, right?  There is a Crawfordville in Florida (no s), about 20 minutes from Tallahassee.  I got my first exposure to teaching ESOL in the US in a small rural area of IL (Kankakee Community College), with migrant farmworkers, in 1988.  What an experience!

Phil
(850) 245-9450
________________________________
From: Burger, Karen [mailto:kburger at cville.k12.in.us]
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 3:26 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1449] Re: TABE CLAS-E

Phil,
Although I have not yet looked into the TABE CLAS-E, I find it interesting that your state is looking at ESOL testing with regard to how to level learners and which skill areas must be assessed.  Our state policy allows for some flexibility in this for the following reasons.  First, if it is a workplace project, and the employer is requesting instruction in a specific skill area, then that is the area assessed and used for leveling the learner.  Also, some of our programs are very small, have limit resources, staff, space and materials.  This can make it difficult to assess learners in all areas.  Particularly in listening because of the type of testing environment that it requires.  Further, there are times that a learner may have the goal to improve skills in a certain area.  Again, the goal would be set and the learner would only need to be assessed in that area.  I hate to see too much restriction that gets in the way of providing classes that suit our learners needs.  Sometimes it would seem that we test our people to death, don't you think?

We are thankful that our state leaders have chosen to provide us with good structure and flexibility in the assessment policy.  Otherwise, there are some programs that would find it difficult to comply with and would not be able to report, or could not afford to serve some of our ESL poplulation.   Good luck!

Karen Burger
Professional Development Consultant
Adult Education Professional Development Project
John Beard Learning Center
1601 East College Street
Crawfordsville, IN 47933
(765) 362-8158
Toll free (866) 977-9902
kburger at cville.k12.in.us<mailto:kburger at cville.k12.in.us>
________________________________
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Anderson, Philip [Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org]
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 1:03 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1448] Re: TABE CLAS-E
Kimberlee,

I'm glad to see your posting, since we at the state adult education office in Florida are asking similar questions.  Florida has an ad hoc committee on assessment that is working on a set of recommendations to the state office on the adoption of TABE CLAS-E.

Local programs may purchase and use the test if they choose to do so for informational purposes, such as to guide instruction, and for purposes that are not related to documentation for state and federal adult education grants.  But until the FL Department of Education State Board approves TABE CLAS-E to be used for reporting any placement or progression based on test results to the state or the federal National Reporting System (NRS).

At our statewide conference in September, we had a session on how to select tests for adult education programs that was well attended.  I developed an in-house guide and checklist on test selection, which we provided to the participants.  I would be glad to send it offline to any one that requests it.

CTB McGraw Hill also provided us a planning/test selection tool they developed. You may wish to request a copy of it from Dan Gall, Dan_Gall at ctb.com<mailto:Dan_Gall at ctb.com>, or Stephanie Seemann, Stephanie_Seemann at ctb.com<mailto:Stephanie_Seemann at ctb.com>.  They have been very responsive to our queries.

The primary issue we are grappling with as a committee is whether to recommend that the state assessment policy mandate that programs must assess adult ESOL students in more than one skill area, and to report on the lowest score of the skill areas tested.

You can see our current state assessment technical assistance paper online at the adult education webpage<http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp> of the Florida Department of Education, http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp.

Phil

CONTACT INFORMATION
Philip Anderson
Adult ESOL Program
Florida Department of Education
Tel (850) 245-9450
philip.anderson at fldoe.org

Please take a few minutes to provide feedback on the quality of service you received from our staff. The Department of Education values your feedback as a customer. Commissioner of Education Dr. Eric J. Smith is committed to continuously assessing and improving the level and quality of services provided to you. Simply click on the link to the "DOE Customer Survey."  Thank you in advance for completing the survey.

DOE Customer Survey<http://data.fldoe.org/cs/default.cfm?staff=Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org|13:03:35%20Fri%2031%20Oct%202008>


________________________________
From: Bryant, Kimberlee [mailto:kbryant at tcsg.edu]
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 1:17 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Cc: Marie Cora
Subject: [Assessment 1446] TABE CLAS-E

Hello Everyone,

I'll keep this short.

Since TABE CLAS-E was recently approved for use by OVAE, have any states adopted it for use in FY09? Or are planning to in FY10?

If so, would you be willing to share the issues/concerns that came up during this process (crafting the state assessment policy, training local program staff members, etc.)?

Based on this experience, what advice could you give to other states?

Kimberlee Bryant
Regional Education Coordinator
Instructional Services/Office of Adult Education
Technical College System of Georgia


________________________________
DISCLAIMER: The information in this message is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, or distribution of the message, or any action or omission taken by you in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Please immediately contact the sender if you have received this message in error.
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From atyskiewicz at crec.org  Tue Nov  4 19:46:29 2008
From: atyskiewicz at crec.org (Tyskiewicz, Andy)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 19:46:29 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1459] Re: TABE CLAS-E
Message-ID: <2E4115D033189841AF7BAF1768828B060165D1F6@crecmail.crec.org>

Had a discussion this morning with a local task force on same issue. Curriculum based tests are the key as long as the curricula and standards are what we need for 2008 with adequate teacher resources and high level state leadership. Andy Tyskiewicz

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov <assessment-bounces at nifl.gov>
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List' <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Tue Nov 04 16:08:49 2008
Subject: [Assessment 1457] Re: TABE CLAS-E

Dear Karen,

 

I think we agree. But I think there are three different assessment issues, and I also think that they sometimes get confused. The first is the NRS. We all know that this does a poor job of measuring what programs teach and students learn ? especially in ESL. We can either live with it and ignore it, or (better) try to get DOE in the next administration to improve it. Where I think we get into trouble is when we start designing programs to meet its requirements in any serious way ? and that does happen, as you know.  The second issue consists of state level assessments. Because all of AE is primarily a state-based system, they matter more than the NRS. And I think states need to know how well students are doing on all 4 core ESL skills ? as well as math (which is too seldom discussed or measured) ? to know how best to allocate resources. For these purposes, I don?t think they have to adopt the NRS levels or use the nationally standardized tests. That is, they should not be slaves to the NRS. I?m encouraged that a growing number of states are publishing curricular frameworks. Assessments based on THOSE seem to me the best way to go. But I agree with you about the dangers of over-testing. The third issue consists of program level assessments. I agree with you that teachers ? ideally teachers working collegially within a program to reach common understandings ? are the key to these. I only wish there was a greater investment in helping ALL teachers to do this as well as possible, and in giving them the time to work on these and other program issues as a team.

 

Forrest         

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Burger, Karen
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 11:15 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1456] Re: TABE CLAS-E

 

Hello everyone,

 

Forrest, you make a good point, but let?s not mistake assessment for good instructional practices.  Any ESL teacher would or should agree that you don?t isolate skills day after day in the classroom.  Although we assess in one or two areas for reporting purposes, we teach all four components of language, and a fifth ? cultural literacy.  My concern is that a mandate to assess all areas with a standardized test will frustrate learners and hurt our programs.  A learner can only be nationally reported for one level gain in one area per program year anyway, so let?s not over do it with the testing during the intake process, but rather, use other assessment tools during the instructional process to determine what our students? strengths and weaknesses are.  

 

I fully agree that we are doing our learners a disservice if we only teach to one skill area and then send them on their way.  Language is communication and requires all components, reading, writing, listening and speaking, to be effective.  Merely administering another test has never resulted in more learning taking place.  And tests don?t always give the full picture.  They are just one measure of what the learner has achieved.  Teachers, good teachers are the experts when it comes to really understanding what their learners know.  They need to be able to continually assess their learners and customized their instruction to meet individual and classroom needs.  I hope we don?t get so focused on standardized testing that we forget that.

 

Karen Burger

Professional Development Consultant

Adult Education Professional Development Project

John Beard Learning Center

1601 East College St.
Crawfordsville, IN 47933

(765) 362-8158

(866) 977-9902

kburger at cville.k12.in.us

 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Howard Dooley
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 3:45 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1455] Re: TABE CLAS-E

 

Well said, Forrest.

 

Howard D.

RI

 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:35 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1454] Re: TABE CLAS-E

Dear all,

 

Bureaucratic considerations aside, if a state is concerned with the welfare of both students and its economy why would it NOT want to place equal value on all 4 ESL skills? ?Levels? are inherently arbitrary. It distresses me that standardized tests (and the NRS) may be debasing both curricula and learning. For operational and accountability purposes, why not test each of the 4 skills and report rates of progress in them separately? If you must have promotion by levels, why not set the promotional scores for each level at a point students in your mainstream programs can be expected to achieve after a certain number of instructional hours? This would require some restructuring at the curricular and program levels, but that is overdue in any event. Thus, if students are strong on reading and weak on listening, programs would devote more time to listening than reading. Alternatively, some programs have developed supplementary short courses at each level for students who are behind in each skill. 

 

Forrest Chisman

CAAL   

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Anderson, Philip
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:45 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1451] Re: TABE CLAS-E

 

Karen, 

 

I really appreciate your helpful thoughts.  Your voice is one that I will share with our ad hoc committee, so they can hear from someone with similar issues.  I heartily agree with you about trying to meet student goals instead of state mandates.  Thank you for pointing out the need for flexibility in testing and not to test students too much. That is exactly what we are grappling with now, and the purpose of convening an ad hoc committee of practitioners is to sort this out and make a recommendation to the state.  We are considering the recommendations from the publisher of TABE CLAS-E and we are trying to determine whether their recommendations will fit our programs, and if so, how they can fit best.

 

We currently have in place a state assessment policy that requires programs that offer federally funded ESL courses to assess students in both reading and listening with the CASAS.  There are exceptions to this with students in the lowest level of the NRS levels.  

 

The state assessment policy also allows programs that offer the federally funded ESL course to use BEST Plus and/or BEST Literacy.  We do not require that programs assess students with both BEST Plus (listening and speaking) and BEST Literacy (reading and writing).  

 

I hesitate to speak on behalf of the publishers of CASAS, TABE CLAS-E or BEST to say what their viewpoints are on this question of how many skill areas the state should require programs to test students in, but they are well aware of our policy and we have had many conversations about it that have been very helpful.  

 

The primary reason we think it is important to test students who are enrolled in the main ESL course we offer (federally funded) in both reading and listening is that we have found that the majority of the ESOL population we serve has more difficulty with their listening skill than their reading skill.  The reading test scores among our students across the state are consistently higher than the listening scores.  There are exceptions, yes.  But overall, the trend points to a strong need for the ESOL population in Florida to be able to understand spoken English.  If we were to put in place a policy that advanced and reported students based solely on a reading score, we would be seeing students exit the 6 ESL levels faster.  In addition, we would be seeing students who are still weak in the listening skill, but we would be unable to serve them with our federal funds because they had exited out of the 6 ESL levels.  We believe that by having a policy that requires programs to report student scores and to move them from one NRS level to the next based on the lower of the two scores, we are ensuring that students are able to get the most comprehensive education possible.  

 

Maybe I should have expanded by saying that Florida has several other types of courses for ESL that do not need to use tests that are approved for reporting to the NRS.  Testing for these courses is handled differently.  These are courses that are funded with state dollars only, and they are:  Literacy Skills for Adult ESOL Learners (for non-literate students), Academic Skills for Adult ESOL Learners (for students that are above Advanced ESL), Workplace Readiness Skills for Adult ESOL Learners (for employed students with classes held at a place provided by the employer), and Citizenship (to prepare for taking the USCIS Naturalization test).  The Adult Education Workplace Readiness course allows the school and the employer to choose the method of assessment that best fits the employer?s needs. A contract between the student, school and employer is drawn up, and when the terms of the contract are met, the state pays an established amount to the school for the expenditure of its resources.  Of course, there are other types of workplace educational services provided through schools that are funded entirely by the employer, and these are not funded through adult education.

 

Bottom line is that while we provide flexibility in assessment policy for state-funded courses, for the main course that is federally funded and which moves students through 6 levels with cut off scores at different points, we have required that programs that use CASAS must test students in both reading and listening to report a placement level and to show progression.  There are exceptions to this with students in the lowest level of the NRS levels.  

 

You can find our assessment Technical Assistance Paper and the additional ESL courses we offer at our adult education <http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp>  web page, http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp. 

 

By the way, I know the Crawfordsville, IN, area well ? I grew up in Illinois but my grandmother was from Indiana so I had lots of relatives there.  I think you have lots of covered bridges, right?  There is a Crawfordville in Florida (no s), about 20 minutes from Tallahassee.  I got my first exposure to teaching ESOL in the US in a small rural area of IL (Kankakee Community College), with migrant farmworkers, in 1988.  What an experience!

 

Phil

(850) 245-9450

________________________________

From: Burger, Karen [mailto:kburger at cville.k12.in.us] 
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 3:26 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1449] Re: TABE CLAS-E

 

Phil,

Although I have not yet looked into the TABE CLAS-E, I find it interesting that your state is looking at ESOL testing with regard to how to level learners and which skill areas must be assessed.  Our state policy allows for some flexibility in this for the following reasons.  First, if it is a workplace project, and the employer is requesting instruction in a specific skill area, then that is the area assessed and used for leveling the learner.  Also, some of our programs are very small, have limit resources, staff, space and materials.  This can make it difficult to assess learners in all areas.  Particularly in listening because of the type of testing environment that it requires.  Further, there are times that a learner may have the goal to improve skills in a certain area.  Again, the goal would be set and the learner would only need to be assessed in that area.  I hate to see too much restriction that gets in the way of providing classes that suit our learners needs.  Sometimes it would seem that we test our people to death, don't you think?  

 

We are thankful that our state leaders have chosen to provide us with good structure and flexibility in the assessment policy.  Otherwise, there are some programs that would find it difficult to comply with and would not be able to report, or could not afford to serve some of our ESL poplulation.   Good luck!

 

Karen Burger

Professional Development Consultant

Adult Education Professional Development Project

John Beard Learning Center

1601 East College Street

Crawfordsville, IN 47933

(765) 362-8158

Toll free (866) 977-9902

kburger at cville.k12.in.us 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Anderson, Philip [Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org]
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 1:03 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1448] Re: TABE CLAS-E

Kimberlee,

 

I?m glad to see your posting, since we at the state adult education office in Florida are asking similar questions.  Florida has an ad hoc committee on assessment that is working on a set of recommendations to the state office on the adoption of TABE CLAS-E.  

 

Local programs may purchase and use the test if they choose to do so for informational purposes, such as to guide instruction, and for purposes that are not related to documentation for state and federal adult education grants.  But until the FL Department of Education State Board approves TABE CLAS-E to be used for reporting any placement or progression based on test results to the state or the federal National Reporting System (NRS).

 

At our statewide conference in September, we had a session on how to select tests for adult education programs that was well attended.  I developed an in-house guide and checklist on test selection, which we provided to the participants.  I would be glad to send it offline to any one that requests it.  

 

CTB McGraw Hill also provided us a planning/test selection tool they developed. You may wish to request a copy of it from Dan Gall, Dan_Gall at ctb.com, or Stephanie Seemann, Stephanie_Seemann at ctb.com.  They have been very responsive to our queries.

 

The primary issue we are grappling with as a committee is whether to recommend that the state assessment policy mandate that programs must assess adult ESOL students in more than one skill area, and to report on the lowest score of the skill areas tested.  

 

You can see our current state assessment technical assistance paper online at the adult education webpage <http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp>  of the Florida Department of Education, http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp.  

 

Phil

 

CONTACT INFORMATION

Philip Anderson

Adult ESOL Program

Florida Department of Education

Tel (850) 245-9450

philip.anderson at fldoe.org

 

Please take a few minutes to provide feedback on the quality of service you received from our staff. The Department of Education values your feedback as a customer. Commissioner of Education Dr. Eric J. Smith is committed to continuously assessing and improving the level and quality of services provided to you. Simply click on the link to the "DOE Customer Survey."  Thank you in advance for completing the survey. 

 

DOE Customer Survey <http://data.fldoe.org/cs/default.cfm?staff=Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org|13:03:35%20Fri%2031%20Oct%202008>  

 

  

________________________________

From: Bryant, Kimberlee [mailto:kbryant at tcsg.edu] 
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 1:17 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Cc: Marie Cora
Subject: [Assessment 1446] TABE CLAS-E

 

Hello Everyone,

 

I?ll keep this short.

 

Since TABE CLAS-E was recently approved for use by OVAE, have any states adopted it for use in FY09? Or are planning to in FY10?

 

If so, would you be willing to share the issues/concerns that came up during this process (crafting the state assessment policy, training local program staff members, etc.)? 

 

Based on this experience, what advice could you give to other states?

 

Kimberlee Bryant

Regional Education Coordinator

Instructional Services/Office of Adult Education

Technical College System of Georgia

 

 

________________________________

DISCLAIMER: The information in this message is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, or distribution of the message, or any action or omission taken by you in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Please immediately contact the sender if you have received this message in error.


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If you are NOT the intended recipient you are hereby notified that ANY disclosure, copying, distribution or action taken in reliance on the contents of these documents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information via facsimile in error, please notify the sender immediately and arrange for the return or destruction of these documents. If information is received via e-mail and you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by e-mail immediately and delete/destroy both the original and the reply e-mail message.




From Fatma.Alioua at sheffcol.ac.uk  Wed Nov  5 08:34:48 2008
From: Fatma.Alioua at sheffcol.ac.uk (Fatma Alioua)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:34:48 +0000
Subject: [Assessment 1460]   Re: TABE CLAS-E
In-Reply-To: <E127BBFE2719D54580E9651B704C89C077EE98BCC7@CVILLEMAIL.cville.local>
References: <E127BBFE2719D54580E9651B704C89C077EEAFBC49@CVILLEMAIL.cville.local><96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E1CF41B57@MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>
	<001701c93de2$e40054e0$ac00fea0$@net>
	<0BF2D0726318524ABEF6D58E7BB3CCEB285886@pdc.Riral.local>
	<E127BBFE2719D54580E9651B704C89C077EE98BCC7@CVILLEMAIL.cville.local>
Message-ID: <4911A0F7.A083.0009.0@sheffcol.ac.uk>

>From my experience here at the  Sheffield College of further Education our learners and teachers are now so happy with the standardisation not only of the ESOL curriculum which  makes it  more structured and easier for  teaching and learning  but also the testing system based on external assessment which they find challenging and provides a clear way of measuring progress in the four skills and subskills they are working towards achieving.
We use a diagnostic assessment every 6 weeks to measure progress made in  the targets set initially for each individual. Of course language is a continuum and therefore the integrated approach is indispensable but targets setting helps in  dealing with specific weaknesses diagnosed earlier.
Fatma Alioua
ESOL Curriculum Team leader
The Sheffield College
Mount Pleasant centre
Sharrow Lane
Sheffield S37PR
UK


>>> "Burger, Karen" <kburger at cville.k12.in.us> 04/11/2008 16:14 >>>
Hello everyone,

Forrest, you make a good point, but let's not mistake assessment for good instructional practices.  Any ESL teacher would or should agree that you don't isolate skills day after day in the classroom.  Although we assess in one or two areas for reporting purposes, we teach all four components of language, and a fifth - cultural literacy.  My concern is that a mandate to assess all areas with a standardized test will frustrate learners and hurt our programs.  A learner can only be nationally reported for one level gain in one area per program year anyway, so let's not over do it with the testing during the intake process, but rather, use other assessment tools during the instructional process to determine what our students' strengths and weaknesses are.

I fully agree that we are doing our learners a disservice if we only teach to one skill area and then send them on their way.  Language is communication and requires all components, reading, writing, listening and speaking, to be effective.  Merely administering another test has never resulted in more learning taking place.  And tests don't always give the full picture.  They are just one measure of what the learner has achieved.  Teachers, good teachers are the experts when it comes to really understanding what their learners know.  They need to be able to continually assess their learners and customized their instruction to meet individual and classroom needs.  I hope we don't get so focused on standardized testing that we forget that.

Karen Burger
Professional Development Consultant
Adult Education Professional Development Project
John Beard Learning Center
1601 East College St.
Crawfordsville, IN 47933
(765) 362-8158
(866) 977-9902
kburger at cville.k12.in.us 

________________________________
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Howard Dooley
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 3:45 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1455] Re: TABE CLAS-E

Well said, Forrest.

Howard D.
RI

________________________________
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Forrest Chisman
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:35 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1454] Re: TABE CLAS-E
Dear all,

Bureaucratic considerations aside, if a state is concerned with the welfare of both students and its economy why would it NOT want to place equal value on all 4 ESL skills? "Levels" are inherently arbitrary. It distresses me that standardized tests (and the NRS) may be debasing both curricula and learning. For operational and accountability purposes, why not test each of the 4 skills and report rates of progress in them separately? If you must have promotion by levels, why not set the promotional scores for each level at a point students in your mainstream programs can be expected to achieve after a certain number of instructional hours? This would require some restructuring at the curricular and program levels, but that is overdue in any event. Thus, if students are strong on reading and weak on listening, programs would devote more time to listening than reading. Alternatively, some programs have developed supplementary short courses at each level for students who are behind in each skill.

Forrest Chisman
CAAL

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Anderson, Philip
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:45 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1451] Re: TABE CLAS-E

Karen,

I really appreciate your helpful thoughts.  Your voice is one that I will share with our ad hoc committee, so they can hear from someone with similar issues.  I heartily agree with you about trying to meet student goals instead of state mandates.  Thank you for pointing out the need for flexibility in testing and not to test students too much. That is exactly what we are grappling with now, and the purpose of convening an ad hoc committee of practitioners is to sort this out and make a recommendation to the state.  We are considering the recommendations from the publisher of TABE CLAS-E and we are trying to determine whether their recommendations will fit our programs, and if so, how they can fit best.

We currently have in place a state assessment policy that requires programs that offer federally funded ESL courses to assess students in both reading and listening with the CASAS.  There are exceptions to this with students in the lowest level of the NRS levels.

The state assessment policy also allows programs that offer the federally funded ESL course to use BEST Plus and/or BEST Literacy.  We do not require that programs assess students with both BEST Plus (listening and speaking) and BEST Literacy (reading and writing).

I hesitate to speak on behalf of the publishers of CASAS, TABE CLAS-E or BEST to say what their viewpoints are on this question of how many skill areas the state should require programs to test students in, but they are well aware of our policy and we have had many conversations about it that have been very helpful.

The primary reason we think it is important to test students who are enrolled in the main ESL course we offer (federally funded) in both reading and listening is that we have found that the majority of the ESOL population we serve has more difficulty with their listening skill than their reading skill.  The reading test scores among our students across the state are consistently higher than the listening scores.  There are exceptions, yes.  But overall, the trend points to a strong need for the ESOL population in Florida to be able to understand spoken English.  If we were to put in place a policy that advanced and reported students based solely on a reading score, we would be seeing students exit the 6 ESL levels faster.  In addition, we would be seeing students who are still weak in the listening skill, but we would be unable to serve them with our federal funds because they had exited out of the 6 ESL levels.  We believe that by having a policy that requires programs to report student scores and to move them from one NRS level to the next based on the lower of the two scores, we are ensuring that students are able to get the most comprehensive education possible.

Maybe I should have expanded by saying that Florida has several other types of courses for ESL that do not need to use tests that are approved for reporting to the NRS.  Testing for these courses is handled differently.  These are courses that are funded with state dollars only, and they are:  Literacy Skills for Adult ESOL Learners (for non-literate students), Academic Skills for Adult ESOL Learners (for students that are above Advanced ESL), Workplace Readiness Skills for Adult ESOL Learners (for employed students with classes held at a place provided by the employer), and Citizenship (to prepare for taking the USCIS Naturalization test).  The Adult Education Workplace Readiness course allows the school and the employer to choose the method of assessment that best fits the employer's needs. A contract between the student, school and employer is drawn up, and when the terms of the contract are met, the state pays an established amount to the school for the expenditure of its resources.  Of course, there are other types of workplace educational services provided through schools that are funded entirely by the employer, and these are not funded through adult education.

Bottom line is that while we provide flexibility in assessment policy for state-funded courses, for the main course that is federally funded and which moves students through 6 levels with cut off scores at different points, we have required that programs that use CASAS must test students in both reading and listening to report a placement level and to show progression.  There are exceptions to this with students in the lowest level of the NRS levels.

You can find our assessment Technical Assistance Paper and the additional ESL courses we offer at our adult education<http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp> web page, http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp.

By the way, I know the Crawfordsville, IN, area well - I grew up in Illinois but my grandmother was from Indiana so I had lots of relatives there.  I think you have lots of covered bridges, right?  There is a Crawfordville in Florida (no s), about 20 minutes from Tallahassee.  I got my first exposure to teaching ESOL in the US in a small rural area of IL (Kankakee Community College), with migrant farmworkers, in 1988.  What an experience!

Phil
(850) 245-9450
________________________________
From: Burger, Karen [mailto:kburger at cville.k12.in.us] 
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 3:26 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1449] Re: TABE CLAS-E

Phil,
Although I have not yet looked into the TABE CLAS-E, I find it interesting that your state is looking at ESOL testing with regard to how to level learners and which skill areas must be assessed.  Our state policy allows for some flexibility in this for the following reasons.  First, if it is a workplace project, and the employer is requesting instruction in a specific skill area, then that is the area assessed and used for leveling the learner.  Also, some of our programs are very small, have limit resources, staff, space and materials.  This can make it difficult to assess learners in all areas.  Particularly in listening because of the type of testing environment that it requires.  Further, there are times that a learner may have the goal to improve skills in a certain area.  Again, the goal would be set and the learner would only need to be assessed in that area.  I hate to see too much restriction that gets in the way of providing classes that suit our learners needs.  Sometimes it would seem that we test our people to death, don't you think?

We are thankful that our state leaders have chosen to provide us with good structure and flexibility in the assessment policy.  Otherwise, there are some programs that would find it difficult to comply with and would not be able to report, or could not afford to serve some of our ESL poplulation.   Good luck!

Karen Burger
Professional Development Consultant
Adult Education Professional Development Project
John Beard Learning Center
1601 East College Street
Crawfordsville, IN 47933
(765) 362-8158
Toll free (866) 977-9902
kburger at cville.k12.in.us<mailto:kburger at cville.k12.in.us>
________________________________
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Anderson, Philip [Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org] 
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 1:03 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1448] Re: TABE CLAS-E
Kimberlee,

I'm glad to see your posting, since we at the state adult education office in Florida are asking similar questions.  Florida has an ad hoc committee on assessment that is working on a set of recommendations to the state office on the adoption of TABE CLAS-E.

Local programs may purchase and use the test if they choose to do so for informational purposes, such as to guide instruction, and for purposes that are not related to documentation for state and federal adult education grants.  But until the FL Department of Education State Board approves TABE CLAS-E to be used for reporting any placement or progression based on test results to the state or the federal National Reporting System (NRS).

At our statewide conference in September, we had a session on how to select tests for adult education programs that was well attended.  I developed an in-house guide and checklist on test selection, which we provided to the participants.  I would be glad to send it offline to any one that requests it.

CTB McGraw Hill also provided us a planning/test selection tool they developed. You may wish to request a copy of it from Dan Gall, Dan_Gall at ctb.com<mailto:Dan_Gall at ctb.com>, or Stephanie Seemann, Stephanie_Seemann at ctb.com<mailto:Stephanie_Seemann at ctb.com>.  They have been very responsive to our queries.

The primary issue we are grappling with as a committee is whether to recommend that the state assessment policy mandate that programs must assess adult ESOL students in more than one skill area, and to report on the lowest score of the skill areas tested.

You can see our current state assessment technical assistance paper online at the adult education webpage<http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp> of the Florida Department of Education, http://www.fldoe.org/workforce/adult_ed.asp.

Phil

CONTACT INFORMATION
Philip Anderson
Adult ESOL Program
Florida Department of Education
Tel (850) 245-9450
philip.anderson at fldoe.org 

Please take a few minutes to provide feedback on the quality of service you received from our staff. The Department of Education values your feedback as a customer. Commissioner of Education Dr. Eric J. Smith is committed to continuously assessing and improving the level and quality of services provided to you. Simply click on the link to the "DOE Customer Survey."  Thank you in advance for completing the survey.

DOE Customer Survey<http://data.fldoe.org/cs/default.cfm?staff=Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org|13:03:35%20Fri%2031%20Oct%202008>


________________________________
From: Bryant, Kimberlee [mailto:kbryant at tcsg.edu] 
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 1:17 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov 
Cc: Marie Cora
Subject: [Assessment 1446] TABE CLAS-E

Hello Everyone,

I'll keep this short.

Since TABE CLAS-E was recently approved for use by OVAE, have any states adopted it for use in FY09? Or are planning to in FY10?

If so, would you be willing to share the issues/concerns that came up during this process (crafting the state assessment policy, training local program staff members, etc.)?

Based on this experience, what advice could you give to other states?

Kimberlee Bryant
Regional Education Coordinator
Instructional Services/Office of Adult Education
Technical College System of Georgia


________________________________
DISCLAIMER: The information in this message is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, or distribution of the message, or any action or omission taken by you in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Please immediately contact the sender if you have received this message in error.



From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Wed Nov  5 09:25:52 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 09:25:52 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1461]  FW: [LearningDisabilities 2533]  Testing
Message-ID: <01e801c93f52$69ec93f0$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Colleagues,

 

Perhaps some of you have suggestions for this subscriber who posted her
question on the Learning Disabilities discussion list.  You can post your
replies to:

learningdisabilities at nifl.gov

 

Subscribe at http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/Learningdisabilities

 

Or post your reply here and I will forward it to the LD List.

 

Thanks,

 

Marie Cora

Assessment Discussion List Moderator

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Shoshanah Dean
Hilmer
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:19 PM
To: learningdisabilities at nifl.gov
Subject: [LearningDisabilities 2533] Testing

 

I was wondering if anyone had any good referrals for students who can't
afford LD testing?  I have several students
at the poverty level who need accommodations for the GED (untimed testing
etc.) and can't possibly afford the $500.00 for testing.  


 

 

  _____  

Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows
Live. See Now <http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/>


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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Mon Nov 10 14:49:00 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 14:49:00 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1462]  Discussion on Diversity and Literacy List
Message-ID: <00c501c9436d$6201ef40$36c1f444@LITNOW>

Colleagues,

The following opportunity may interest some of you.

To subscribe to the Diversity and Literacy List, go to:
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/diversity

Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator

**************************************************

I am very excited to announce that from Monday Dec. 1-  Friday December 12,
Dr. Mev Miller will be facilitating the following guest discussion on the
Diversity and Literacy list: Creating networks to support women's literacy.

Mev Miller, Ed.D is an educator and consultant on issues of women and
literacy. She is the founder and Director of WE LEARN (Women Expanding -
Literacy, Education, Action, Resource, Network)
http://www.litwomen.org/welearn.html
WE LEARN also sponsors: Women Leading Through Reading
http://www.litwomen.org/wltr.html and Women's Perspectives
http://www.litwomen.org/perspectives.html

The focus of this discussion will be on further developing a women and
literacy hub/clearinghouse for the nation. The specific focus of this
discussion will be on  how can local and regional efforts gain visibility
and support  through such a network/clearinghouse?

In preparation for this discussion, please start thinking about the
following:

1) What are individuals and programs doing locally to address women's
literacy issues? For this discussion, locally means in your  classroom,
program, neighborhood, community, city, state. What you are doing might be a
curriculum, a specific type of program, or any kind of organizing....and
more.

2) What do you need to support the work you are doing?

3) Would you find regional (state or area of country) events or  conferences
useful? Be specific - how and what would you need or desire? How might a
national organization facilitate regional  supports?

4) How can a national clearinghouse of information specifically  focused on
women's literacy issues, curriculum, and research  support your work? What
do you need it to do?

Please join us for this discussion (from 12/1-12/12). To subscribe to the
Diversity and Literacy List, go to:
http://nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/discussions.html
in the middle, if you scroll down you will see:
Diversity and Literacy
click on that and fill in the information to subscribe.
This is the critical part:
you will get an email requesting confirmation of their
subscription. You MUST respond or else, you will not be subscribed.
At the end of the discussion you can unsubscribe, by going to the
same page as mentioned above ( http://nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/
discussions.html ) and if you scroll down you will see Unsubscribe and you
should complete the information that is requested.

Thanks, and Mev and I look forward to a great discussion on creating
networks to support women's literacy.

Daphne Greenberg
Facilitator of Diversity and Literacy List
_______________________________________________
National Institute for Literacy 
Moderators mailing list: Moderators at nifl.gov 
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/moderators 
Moderator's Resource Page: http://www.nifl.gov/lincs_dlms/contents.html
Moderator's List Archive page:
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/private/moderators


From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Wed Nov 12 09:58:24 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:58:24 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1463]  National Program Grant Opportunity
Message-ID: <005801c944d7$1ebed4d0$3031cd63@LITNOW>

National Program Grant Opportunity

Application Deadline: November 25, 2008



Dear Colleague,

ProLiteracy is pleased to announce the third training module of the Dollar
General - ProLiteracy Performance Accountability Initiative:  Communicating
Success to Stakeholders.

This day-and-a-half training will help programs to:

    * build relationships with stakeholders
    * develop community partnerships
    * identify innovative ways to tell your program's success stories
    * coordinate teams to work on communication and marketing
    * diversify funding sources
    * develop concise and measurable funding proposals
    * prepare and use reports to demonstrate goals achieved

The content of the training is drawn from promising practices by exemplary
literacy and adult education programs across the country.

Programs that participate in the training will be asked to:

.         implement one or more of the promising practices over the nine
months following the training

.         share their challenges, experiences, and successful strategies
with other participants in the initiative

A stipend of $900.00 is available to support program participation in the
project.  The stipend is meant to help defray travel and hotel expenses and
to help cover reporting requirements.  (In an earlier email, the incorrect
stipend for programs participating for one year was listed; we apologize for
any confusion this may have caused.)

If you are interested in attending Communicating Success to Stakeholders,
please download and carefully read the Guidelines and complete the
Application form available at www.proliteracy.org
<http://www.proliteracy.org/>  -
<http://www.proliteracy.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=437
<http://207.10.202.200/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.proliteracy.org/
NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=437%26srcid=437> &srcid=437>.  If you are unable
to download the documents, please email Michele Diecuch at
info at proliteracy.org.

To be considered for participation, your program must submit its completed
application attached to an e-mail to mcora at proliteracy.org by November 25,
2008.  Snail mail or faxes cannot be accepted. Up to 15 programs from each
region will be selected and invited to send two people from each program to
the training.

Marie Cora
DGPA Project Manager
ProLiteracy
mcora at proliteracy.org

 

 

 

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Wed Nov 12 11:27:19 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 11:27:19 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1464]  COABE Call for Proposals Extended
Message-ID: <00ae01c944e3$8a5faa00$3031cd63@LITNOW>

CALL FOR PROPOSAL - COABE 2009- Deadline extended to November 28, 2008!


The Commission on Adult Basic Education (COABE), Kentucky Association of
Adult & Continuing Education (KAACE), and Kentucky Adult Education Council
on Postsecondary Education (KYAE) are pleased to announce a Call for
Proposals for the 2009 COABE national conference!

 

The conference - Winners Circle of Learning Champions - will be held in
Louisville, Kentucky on April 17-22. Workshop proposals must be submitted by
November 28th, 2008.

 

The goal of the Annual COABE National Conference is to provide best
practices and program guidance to adult basic education professionals.  No
matter how you say it, Adult Education is Absolutely Essential!  Please
consider sharing your expertise and experience in providing high quality and
effective adult basic education programs.  The workshop proposal form has to
be submitted on-line and can be found at:
http://www.coabeconference.org/call_for_presenters.html

 

For more information, contact:
Lorena Lasky, COABE 2009 Concurrent Sessions Chairperson
Jefferson County Adult & Continuing Education
Lorena.Lasky at kentuckianaworks.org
502-574-4123

 

COABE Conference 2009
Where: Louisville, KY
When: April 17-22, 2009

Conference Hotel
Galt House Hotel and Suites
140 N. 4th Street
Louisville, KY 40202

 

  

 

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From mnega1 at student.gsu.edu  Mon Nov 17 11:19:12 2008
From: mnega1 at student.gsu.edu (Martha Nega)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:19:12 +0000
Subject: [Assessment 1465] Re: New way to teach math
In-Reply-To: <022001c93468$6db150b0$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
References: <022001c93468$6db150b0$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <4C231C28C178184186058C798F47197F2B51ED9646@BL2PRD0101MB007.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Thanks for sharing the research articles. As an math teacher to adults I find it very useful.
Although, it is not directly applicable, the issues are similar to problems we have in developmental level math classes. for example, I also teach Long Division in my classrooms.
After several years of not attending formal education, adults students are placed in specific courses after taking an assessment when they are still proficient in one area and significantly lacking in another. This allows for the average of the assessment to be high enough to be placed into a specific course. as a result, students struggle in class to catch up on ideas that are based on the things they did not understand coming into the classroom. The idea of Proximal Assessment for Learner Diagnosis (PALD) may be implemented for specific domains of math skills to gear the instruction to the needs of the student. This allows the instructor to identify the deficiencies and address them.

Martha

________________________________
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Marie Cora [marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 1:05 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1442] New way to teach math

Hi everyone,

It?s been quiet on the List lately!  I?m sure everyone is quite busy; I have been busy working on organizing some of the discussions that subscribers suggested to me in September.  I hope to have an announcement for you all soon on topics that I?ve been able to put together for the List.

In the meantime, I came across this information below and thought I would put it out there for subscribers to read, think about, and respond to.  These studies are focused on grade-school age children; however, I found some of the discussion very interesting and thought some of it might be appropriate for working with adults.

So!  Do you find that either of these resources could be applicable to adult literacy education?  All of either report?  Some of either?

Are you familiar with similar efforts that are focused on adults and if so, could you please share this information with us here?

If you feel that this is not informative for adult educators in any way, can you say why?

And finally, do folks have methods or processes they use to diagnose gaps in math skills/abilities with the adults they work with?  If so, can you share what you do with us here?

Thanks!

Marie


A NEW WAY TO TEACH MATH SHOWS MERIT
Two new studies from Teachers College, Columbia University, examined teacher practices and early outcomes of a dynamic classroom assessment approach known as Proximal Assessment for Learner Diagnosis (PALD). The reports find that sixth graders who were taught by PALD scored significantly higher on standardized math tests than peers who weren't exposed to the method. In addition, fifth graders who participated in the program outperformed their peers in geometry. The method requires teachers to break down math problem solving -- or any academic task they want students to learn -- into a set of connected skills and concepts. Then the teacher assesses student performance at each step to understand precisely where students make errors or show lack of understanding.
http://www.tc.edu/i/media/6565_6563_AERAPALDOutcomesExecutiveSummary.pdf<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001xftdtjhVltvOzslEa0Gciii_icKGCTYGO6IbBTtQcrGXEGA23HtgyaYLrT9pAir9jaN10Cqw5JhWqkQ6KJ2ksRFn15kEdFPuRGKLc30qduryyjD8wqMuRAOSCwtEyKFAqTWglorryNLI9uqcy2tYg5XdztcaWNHQEyN_LOM-nHk2b7icLNXxDg==>
http://www.tc.edu/i/media/6565_AERAPALDMappingCognitivePathways.pdf<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001xftdtjhVltsgNkKzAVyhStIu7u2CKBIgKOXgfeFHrbkmEeh9k1_mRPHwHBRxgKMXoYxJSAYzFOCiO7Osa-FNpih5ShoydoGvQDKghQFwzCNBoHzNbwhuDuEbNioZ6fe7Gqezl5KyP1LDrb46CX_gMNksyHM0BvDW1NdH1hGx7Q2-j4vuAihgpg==>


Marie Cora, Moderator
Assessment Discussion List
National Institute for Literacy
Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com<mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

Coordinator of Assessment
Program Planning Resource Collection
National Institute for Literacy
Visit at:  http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html



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From tsticht at znet.com  Mon Nov 17 18:35:51 2008
From: tsticht at znet.com (tsticht at znet.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:35:51 -0800
Subject: [Assessment 1466]  Thinking about the NIFL
Message-ID: <1226964951.4921ffd7a78d4@webmail.znet.net>

Colleagues:

In July 1991, the President of the United States signed Public Law 102-73
which, among other things, established the National Institute for Literacy
(NIFL). The law called on the NIFL to conduct basic and applied research
and demonstrations. Though the actual agenda for the NIFL was not
specified, examples of questions to be addressed were given. These
included:

1.	How do adults learn to read and write and acquire other skills
(listening, speaking, reasoning, etc.)?
2.	How does the literacy level of the parents affect the skills development
and schooling of the parent?s children?
3.	What are better ways to assess literacy skills?
4.	How can better instructional programs be developed?
5.	What are good methods for assisting adults and families to acquire
literacy skills, including the use of technology; methods for adults with
special learning needs (learning disabilities), and limited English
proficient (LEP) adults?
6.	How can the most disadvantaged be effectively reached and taught literacy
skills?
7.	How can technology be used to instruct and to increase the knowledge
base?
8.	How can research effort of others be built on?
9.	How can the field attract, train and retrain professional and volunteer
teachers?

 We are now nearing the end of 2008, some 18 years after the NIFL was
established, and I am wondering what adult literacy professionals think of
these questions: were they appropriate for the work of the NIFL, if so, how
well have they been addressed, and if there were other questions that took
priority and were addressed by the NIFL, and how any one or all of these
activities have improved the field of adult literacy education up to now.

Some adult literacy advocates have called for changing the present NIFL?s
focus on lifelong learning of literacy from birth through adulthood, and
returning it to its original focus on adult literacy education. Is this a
good idea?

What do you think the NIFL should be doing to advance the field of adult
literacy education that it is not doing now?

Tom Sticht


From lgrulich at dycd.nyc.gov  Wed Nov 19 10:41:28 2008
From: lgrulich at dycd.nyc.gov (Grulich, Laura)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:41:28 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1467] Re: Thinking about the NIFL_How ELLs access
	information
In-Reply-To: <1226964951.4921ffd7a78d4@webmail.znet.net>
References: <1226964951.4921ffd7a78d4@webmail.znet.net>
Message-ID: <CD9C357D8D310A4D8C0D25BCD230EBC90FB06532@CSCMAIL01.csc.nycnet>

Colleagues:
I am new to the list, so bear with me...
This is not a direct response to your question but may be related?
I am working with Community Based ESL and Literacy programs in NYC's
five boroughs.
My question is - has there been, or do you know of, a study or site that
has researched how immigrants (and others wanting to learn and improve
their English) access information about available programs and
information?
For instance, is it primarily through newspapers, flyers, radio,
television, internet, word-of-mouth?
I appreciate your sharing information and ideas in this inquiry. 

Laura Grulich

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of tsticht at znet.com
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:36 PM
To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov; professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov;
assessment at nifl.gov; familyliteracy at nifl.gov; diversity at nifl.gov;
healthliteracy at nifl.gov; learningdisabilities at nifl.gov;
technology at nifl.gov; workplace at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1466] Thinking about the NIFL

Colleagues:

In July 1991, the President of the United States signed Public Law
102-73
which, among other things, established the National Institute for
Literacy
(NIFL). The law called on the NIFL to conduct basic and applied research
and demonstrations. Though the actual agenda for the NIFL was not
specified, examples of questions to be addressed were given. These
included:

1.	How do adults learn to read and write and acquire other skills
(listening, speaking, reasoning, etc.)?
2.	How does the literacy level of the parents affect the skills
development
and schooling of the parent's children?
3.	What are better ways to assess literacy skills?
4.	How can better instructional programs be developed?
5.	What are good methods for assisting adults and families to
acquire
literacy skills, including the use of technology; methods for adults
with
special learning needs (learning disabilities), and limited English
proficient (LEP) adults?
6.	How can the most disadvantaged be effectively reached and taught
literacy
skills?
7.	How can technology be used to instruct and to increase the
knowledge
base?
8.	How can research effort of others be built on?
9.	How can the field attract, train and retrain professional and
volunteer
teachers?

 We are now nearing the end of 2008, some 18 years after the NIFL was
established, and I am wondering what adult literacy professionals think
of
these questions: were they appropriate for the work of the NIFL, if so,
how
well have they been addressed, and if there were other questions that
took
priority and were addressed by the NIFL, and how any one or all of these
activities have improved the field of adult literacy education up to
now.

Some adult literacy advocates have called for changing the present
NIFL's
focus on lifelong learning of literacy from birth through adulthood, and
returning it to its original focus on adult literacy education. Is this
a
good idea?

What do you think the NIFL should be doing to advance the field of adult
literacy education that it is not doing now?

Tom Sticht

-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to lgrulich at dycd.nyc.gov

From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Mon Nov 24 12:17:38 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:17:38 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1468]  Upcoming Discussions on the Assessment List
Message-ID: <019601c94e58$943c05e0$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi everyone,

 

I hope this email finds you well.  

 

I wanted to give you an update on some guest discussions I've been working
on putting together.  

 

The first will be focused on using data for program improvement and will be
held December 8 through 12.  I will have a full announcement ready later
this week for you all.

 

The other discussion I have started to organize will be focused on
transitions of ABE and ESL students to GED studies, post-secondary education
and/or job training, and assessment methods to measure application and
transfer skills.  This discussion will be held February 2 through 6, 2009.
I will have more details on the topic and panel members later in the month
of December.

 

I am also still working on putting together a couple of other discussions
that were suggested on this List in September and I'll keep you updated on
the progress of these.

 

In the meantime, please continue to use this Discussion List as one of your
tools for professional development - please share your experiences,
information, and questions here.

 

Thanks!

 

Marie Cora

 

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Tue Nov 25 08:15:10 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 08:15:10 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1469] FW: November News Flash from WE LEARN - Deadline
	Reminders..
Message-ID: <026801c94eff$d98ad070$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Colleagues, some of you may be interested in the following:

 

 

WE LEARN / Women Expanding Literacy Education Action Resource Network

 

This issue:

. Deadline Reminder: Call for Presentation Proposals 2009 Annual Conference

. Deadline reminder: Call for ABE Student Writings 2009 Women's Perspectives

. NIFL Diversity Listserv Discussion: Creating networks to support women's
literacy

. Recognition, Thank You, and Holiday Gift Ideas

 

 .......

Call for Presentation Proposals -- Deadline: November 30, 2008

6th Annual WE LEARN (Net)Working Gathering & Conference on Women and
Literacy -- Stronger Leadership & Literacy: Empowering Women to Action

March 6-7, 2009, University of Rhode Island, Downtown Providence Campus

Registration Information and Schedule Outline have been posted.

For details and proposal form go to:
<http://www.litwomen.org/conference.html>
<http://www.litwomen.org/conference.html>
http://www.litwomen.org/conference.html

.......

Call for ABE Student Writing - Women's Perspectives 2009 - Issue #4 -
Deadline: December 5, 2008

Theme: Transition / Transformation. For details, lesson plans & pre-writing
activities, go to:  <http://www.litwomen.org/perspectives.html>
http://www.litwomen.org/perspectives.html

 .......

 NIFL Diversity Listserv Discussion - Creating networks to support women's
literacy

>From Monday Dec. 1 to Friday December 12, Dr. Mev Miller will be
facilitating a guest discussion on the NIFL Diversity list: Creating
networks to support women's literacy. The focus of this discussion will be
on further developing a women and literacy hub/clearinghouse for the nation.
The specific focus of this discussion will be on how local and regional
efforts can gain visibility and support through such a network/clearinghouse
(or example, WE LEARN)?

We encourage you to join the listserv for this discussion (you can easily
unsubscribe at the end of the 2 weeks).

a)    Go to:  <http://nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/discussions.html>
http://nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/discussions.html

b)    Scroll down to Diversity and Literacy -- click on that and fill in the
information to subscribe.

c)** This is the critical part: You will get an email requesting
confirmation of your subscription. You MUST respond or else, you will not be
subscribed.

d)    At the end of the discussion you can unsubscribe, by going to the same
page and scroll down to see Unsubscribe and complete the information that is
requested.

 In preparation for this discussion, please start thinking about the
following:

1)    What are individuals and programs doing locally to address women's
literacy issues? For this discussion, locally means in your classroom,
program, neighborhood, community, city, state. What you are doing might be a
curriculum, a specific type of program, or any kind of organizing....and
more.

2)    What do you need to support the work you are doing?

3)    Would you find regional (state or area of country) events or
conferences useful? Be specific - how and what would you need or desire? How
might a national organization facilitate regional supports?

4)    How can a national clearinghouse of information specifically focused
on women's literacy issues, curriculum, and research support your work? What
do you need it to do?

 .......

Holiday Gift Ideas (Discounts available to WE LEARN Members)

WE LEARN 5th Anniversary Year Calendar - Good to December 2009

Pictures from WE LEARN events. Reflections by students and educators on
effects of WE LEARN's work . Student writings. Resources Suggestions.
Insights from WE LEARN's projects. Women-centered curriculum and lesson plan
tips. Important dates/holidays from multiple cultures. Months and days in
English, Spanish, French . Room to write!. -- $12.00 (Members - $8.00)

Laboring to Learn: Women's Literacy & Poverty in the Post-Welfare Era by
Lorna Rivera, Ph.D. University of Illinois Press, 2008.

Throughout this study, the voices and experiences of formerly homeless women
challenge cultural stereotypes about poor women, showing in personal and
structural terms how social and economic forces shape and restrict
opportunities for low-income women of color. Lorna Rivera served for 5 years
on the WE LEARN Board of Directors as a founding member. -- $25.00 (Members
- $22.00)

For order form and additional ideas, go to:
http://www.litwomen.org/08orderflyer.pdf

 

Also, consider giving the gift of a Membership to WE LEARN - For more
details go to: http://www.litwomen.org/membership.html

........................

Mev Miller, Ed.D., Director

welearn at litwomen.org

 

WE LEARN

Women Expanding: Literacy Education Action Resource Network

www.litwomen.org/welearn.html

 

182 Riverside Ave.

Cranston, RI 02910

401-383-4374

 

 

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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Tue Dec  2 20:27:38 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 20:27:38 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1470]  Discussion on using data for your program
Message-ID: <02c401c954e6$55152470$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi everyone,

 

The announcement for the discussion beginning December 8 on Using Your Data
to Improve Your Program Services can be found at:

 

http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/08data.html

 

The panelists would like to receive any questions or comments you may have
prior to the opening of the discussion next Monday.  Please send your
questions/comments to the Assessment List or to me at
marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com.  I will compile your contributions and
forward them to the panelists so that they can respond in advance.

 

Note that there are a number of resources to review and use before the
discussion begins.  

 

There is one resource - a case study - that is in draft now and will be
posted for your viewing later this week.

 

Thanks everyone for your interest. I'm looking forward to receiving your
questions/comments and looking forward to the discussion as well.

 

Marie

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Wed Dec  3 10:02:09 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 10:02:09 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1471]  Discussion on Using Data #2
Message-ID: <03af01c95558$1e45e570$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi again all,

 

Just wanted to alert you that the Case Study that was not linked on the
announcement is now posted.  

 

Please send your comments/questions to me or to the List now.

 

For the announcement, go to:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/08data.html

 

Thanks!

 

marie

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Fri Dec  5 08:55:29 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 08:55:29 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1472]  Reminder:  Data Discussion begins Monday!
Message-ID: <013501c956e1$22f5bc50$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi all,

 

Just a reminder that the discussion focused on using data for program
improvement will begin this Monday.  I have received a couple of questions
from subscribers so far - please send any comments or questions you may have
now to me at the email address below or to the List and I will forward them
to the panel.

 

Here is the URL for the full announcement:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/08data.html

 

I'm looking forward to the discussion!  Have a great weekend!

 

marie

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Mon Dec  8 08:46:22 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 08:46:22 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1472]  Using Data:  What Made You Start?
Message-ID: <023a01c9593b$5b90d250$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi everyone,

 

Today opens our discussion on using data for program improvement.  I would
like to thank our guests Donielle, Vivian, Lori and Cathay for joining us.

 

I have received a couple questions from people for the panel, and I have a
question myself.  

 

I will post my question here, and then send the other two questions to the
List in separate emails. That way, we can try to keep the discussion
organized by thread.  

 

Full information on this discussion can be found at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/08data.html  

 

Thanks and I look forward to this discussion, 

 

Marie

 

**********************

 

>From Marie:  How did you come to understand that paying more attention to
your data would lead to improved practice?  In other words, why did you
start studying and using your data in the first place?

 

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Mon Dec  8 08:49:12 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 08:49:12 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1473]  Using Data:  Getting Staff Buy-In
Message-ID: <023f01c9593b$c1500840$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

A subscriber sent:

How do you get staff to buy-in to a bigger focus on using data?  My staff
really see this as an extra layer of effort and work at this point.  It's
hard to get them to see that some initial work on this will eventually lead
to better teaching and programming.  Thanks. 

 

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Mon Dec  8 08:50:33 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 08:50:33 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1474]  Using Data: Where to Start?
Message-ID: <024401c9593b$f1635050$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

A subscriber sent:

We would like to have more of a focus on data in our program, but it's so
difficult to know where to start - we could work on so many different
aspects of the program.  Does the panel have recommendations of what to
tackle first, second, etc?  Or recommendations on how to decide what to do
first?  

     

  

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Mon Dec  8 08:54:03 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 08:54:03 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1475]  Using Data: Content and Materials
Message-ID: <024901c9593c$6f596850$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi all,

 

I also have a question for subscribers:  what do you think of the content
and materials that we put together for this discussion?  

 

They can be found at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/08data.html

 

Thanks!!  Your thoughts, reactions, and feedback are greatly appreciated!

 

Marie

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From jackie.coelho at gmail.com  Mon Dec  8 12:46:55 2008
From: jackie.coelho at gmail.com (Jackie Coelho)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 12:46:55 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1475] Re: Using Data: Getting Staff Buy-In
In-Reply-To: <023f01c9593b$c1500840$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
References: <023f01c9593b$c1500840$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <1dd5701e0812080946g661ee5e0k2b6826a2d2aa0d99@mail.gmail.com>

  At the risk of sounding snarky....which I sincerely do NOT intend, I
think that most ABE teachers are underpaid and would see using data as
worthwhile if they were not already doing so much for so little. If
data will lead to a better program, will it also lead to a better
salary?

  Also, I think it is only fair to point out that data cannot
necessarily inform all decisions. The target population is a moving
target, groups come and go and what holds true for one group may not
apply to another.

  After all that, perhaps having instructors use their own data, from
experiments they themselves have developed and conducted, may help get
buy-in. What do they need? What do they want to know? How can they
find out? What can they do with the information. If people are not
used to dealing with data, then perhaps they need to see the power of
the data first. Then they may feel more comfortable looking at data
from an outside source.

  Just some thoughts from a practioner.

On 12/8/08, Marie Cora <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> A subscriber sent:
>
> How do you get staff to buy-in to a bigger focus on using data?  My staff
> really see this as an extra layer of effort and work at this point.  It's
> hard to get them to see that some initial work on this will eventually lead
> to better teaching and programming.  Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Marie Cora, Moderator
>
> Assessment Discussion List
>
> National Institute for Literacy
>
> Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>
> Subscribe at:
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>
>
> Coordinator of Assessment
>
> Program Planning Resource Collection
>
> National Institute for Literacy
>
> Visit at:
> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>
>

From Tina.Luffman at yc.edu  Mon Dec  8 13:19:16 2008
From: Tina.Luffman at yc.edu (Luffman, Tina, Ellen)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 11:19:16 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1476] Re: Using Data: Where to Start?
In-Reply-To: <024401c9593b$f1635050$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
References: <024401c9593b$f1635050$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <480F5D7796E2AD4D89E56FD2BDA543155437080E0A@OLYMPIA.yc.edu>

Hi Marie,

I recently went through the Leadership Excellence Academy with Kathi Polis and Lennox McClendon, and we started with various self-assessment options. The academy felt that beginning with assessing the felt needs of the students, teachers, administrators, and stakeholders was a great way to determine what else needed to be done in our program. Then we used these self-assessments to decide what data we needed to review for purposes of program improvement. I am not sure if this is what you were looking for, but this is what came to mind.

Thanks,

Tina
________________________________
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Marie Cora [marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com]
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 6:50 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1474] Using Data: Where to Start?

A subscriber sent:
We would like to have more of a focus on data in our program, but it?s so difficult to know where to start ? we could work on so many different aspects of the program.  Does the panel have recommendations of what to tackle first, second, etc?  Or recommendations on how to decide what to do first?




Marie Cora, Moderator
Assessment Discussion List
National Institute for Literacy
Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com<mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

Coordinator of Assessment
Program Planning Resource Collection
National Institute for Literacy
Visit at:  http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html



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From dptinajero at sc.pima.gov  Mon Dec  8 13:59:06 2008
From: dptinajero at sc.pima.gov (Tinajero, Debbie)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 11:59:06 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1477] Re: Using Data: Where to Start?
In-Reply-To: <480F5D7796E2AD4D89E56FD2BDA543155437080E0A@OLYMPIA.yc.edu>
References: <024401c9593b$f1635050$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
	<480F5D7796E2AD4D89E56FD2BDA543155437080E0A@OLYMPIA.yc.edu>
Message-ID: <8D78422F94A7F84DA1B8C3597063C3A6046AFC81@mail.sc.pima.gov>

I agree with this, Tina.  Using data for data's sake is not a way to
start.  You have to have a specific idea of what you want to know before
you dig in.  Ask your staff what their biggest burning question is.  If
they have different ideas, prioritize them together and then start
looking for all the different kinds of places where you might find data
to help you find the answer.  State database?  Your program's data?
Attendance records?  

 

Marie - do you have a quick access source for different kinds of
surveys?

 

Debbie Tinajero

Pima County Adult Probation LEARN

Tucson, AZ 

 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Luffman, Tina, Ellen
Sent: December 8, 2008 11:19 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1476] Re: Using Data: Where to Start?

 

Hi Marie,

 

I recently went through the Leadership Excellence Academy with Kathi
Polis and Lennox McClendon, and we started with various self-assessment
options. The academy felt that beginning with assessing the felt needs
of the students, teachers, administrators, and stakeholders was a great
way to determine what else needed to be done in our program. Then we
used these self-assessments to decide what data we needed to review for
purposes of program improvement. I am not sure if this is what you were
looking for, but this is what came to mind.

 

Thanks,

 

Tina

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Marie Cora [marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com]
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 6:50 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1474] Using Data: Where to Start?

A subscriber sent:

We would like to have more of a focus on data in our program, but it's
so difficult to know where to start - we could work on so many different
aspects of the program.  Does the panel have recommendations of what to
tackle first, second, etc?  Or recommendations on how to decide what to
do first?  

     

  

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From sandy_strunk at IU13.org  Mon Dec  8 14:02:32 2008
From: sandy_strunk at IU13.org (Sandy Strunk)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 14:02:32 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1478] Re: Using Data: Getting Staff Buy-In
In-Reply-To: <1dd5701e0812080946g661ee5e0k2b6826a2d2aa0d99@mail.gmail.com>
References: <023f01c9593b$c1500840$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
	<1dd5701e0812080946g661ee5e0k2b6826a2d2aa0d99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9FFE32E876AC0644B2C5FA25692DDC2E59624D1DA9@EXCMBXCLUS.hq.iu13.local>

My experience has been that teachers are sometimes reluctant to use data because it seems so far removed from their day-to-day routines. We started by just feeding back to our teachers the information they had given us about their learners (test scores, attendance, goal attainment, progress, etc.). The first reaction was often "this isn't accurate" -- creating an opportunity for us to talk about the importance of validating data.

Once our data because more accurate, we began giving teachers their individual class information as well as the mean information for our program. This allowed teachers to compare their attendance, goal attainment, and learner gains to the average for our program. That led to many questions about why performance varied so much from class to class and fostered many opportunities for sharing best practices.

Finally, we asked our teachers to use their data to do written progress reports for our learners three times a year (we paid teachers for this time). We generated learner progress monitoring reports from our database, printed them with labels for teachers, and teachers added comments and observations prior to mailing each individual report. This not only made the data more useful for teachers, but it also engaged our learners with their individual data and underscored the correlation between regular attendance and learning gains.

I will also say that whether you're a teacher, student or administrator, looking at your own performance data is a humbling experience. A key for me has been to describe, not judge, and to talk about what I can do to try and change the data -- rather than assign blame because the data is not what I want it to be.

I also like the idea of having teachers generate their own inquiries and we try to support those inquiries through our professional development system. Unfortunately, as Jackie noted, part-time staff are often already stretched, so there's a limit on what they're able to take on in addition to their teaching.

Sandra J. Strunk
Program Director for Community Education
Lancaster Lebanon Intermediate Unit 13
1020 New Holland Avenue
Lancaster, PA 17601
(717) 606-1873
(717) 606-1705 - fax

Service, support...solutions

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Jackie Coelho
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:47 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1475] Re: Using Data: Getting Staff Buy-In

  At the risk of sounding snarky....which I sincerely do NOT intend, I
think that most ABE teachers are underpaid and would see using data as
worthwhile if they were not already doing so much for so little. If
data will lead to a better program, will it also lead to a better
salary?

  Also, I think it is only fair to point out that data cannot
necessarily inform all decisions. The target population is a moving
target, groups come and go and what holds true for one group may not
apply to another.

  After all that, perhaps having instructors use their own data, from
experiments they themselves have developed and conducted, may help get
buy-in. What do they need? What do they want to know? How can they
find out? What can they do with the information. If people are not
used to dealing with data, then perhaps they need to see the power of
the data first. Then they may feel more comfortable looking at data
from an outside source.

  Just some thoughts from a practioner.

On 12/8/08, Marie Cora <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> A subscriber sent:
>
> How do you get staff to buy-in to a bigger focus on using data?  My staff
> really see this as an extra layer of effort and work at this point.  It's
> hard to get them to see that some initial work on this will eventually lead
> to better teaching and programming.  Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Marie Cora, Moderator
>
> Assessment Discussion List
>
> National Institute for Literacy
>
> Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>
> Subscribe at:
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>
>
> Coordinator of Assessment
>
> Program Planning Resource Collection
>
> National Institute for Literacy
>
> Visit at:
> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>
>
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to sandy_strunk at iu13.org

From mhefner at cccti.edu  Mon Dec  8 14:21:07 2008
From: mhefner at cccti.edu (Melinda Hefner)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 14:21:07 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1479] Re: Using Data: Content and Materials
In-Reply-To: <024901c9593c$6f596850$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
References: <024901c9593c$6f596850$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <493D2D53.1F1A.005D.0@cccti.edu>

I actually think that the preparation materials were quite good and very well organized.  While I haven't had time to look over everything, I am going to try to "catch up" at some point.  My only suggestion is that we have even more than the lead time you gave us for this very important discussion.  (Please don't think of this as a criticism.  You gave us much more lead time than most and your "rollout" of this discussion is top notch.)  Thanks for pulling all of this together.  I really, really appreciate your taking the lead to help adult literacy practitioners have ongoing conversations about our discipline.
 
Melinda
 
Melinda M. Hefner
Director, Literacy Support Services

Basic Skills Department
Caldwell Community College and Technical Institute
2855 Hickory Blvd.
Hudson, North Carolina 28638
Office: 828.726.2245
FAX:    828.726.2266


>>> On 12/8/2008 at 8:54 am, in message <024901c9593c$6f596850$0202a8c0 at LITNOW>, "Marie Cora" <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> wrote:

Hi all,
 
I also have a question for subscribers:  what do you think of the content and materials that we put together for this discussion?  
 
They can be found at:  http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/08data.html
 
Thanks!!  Your thoughts, reactions, and feedback are greatly appreciated!
 
Marie
 
 
 

Marie Cora, Moderator
Assessment Discussion List 
National Institute for Literacy 
Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
 
Coordinator of Assessment  
Program Planning Resource Collection
National Institute for Literacy 
Visit at:  http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html
 
 

 

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From DJRosen at TheWorld.com  Mon Dec  8 15:34:57 2008
From: DJRosen at TheWorld.com (DJRosen at TheWorld.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 15:34:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Assessment 1480] Re: Using Data: Getting Staff Buy-In
In-Reply-To: <1dd5701e0812080946g661ee5e0k2b6826a2d2aa0d99@mail.gmail.com>
References: <023f01c9593b$c1500840$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
	<1dd5701e0812080946g661ee5e0k2b6826a2d2aa0d99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48308.24.60.83.71.1228768497.squirrel@www.TheWorld.com>

Jackie, and others,

These are important points. You don't sound snarky to me.

I wonder if the guests -- and if others here -- have examples of
instructors who have done experiments in their classes, who have got good
data, made decisions based on the data, and seen positive change as a
result. We need power-of-data narratives, by or about teachers who feel
that the data-for-decision-making process -- even if demanding and time
consuming -- is worth it. Please share these stories with us.

David J. Rosen
djrosen at theworld.com

>   At the risk of sounding snarky....which I sincerely do NOT intend, I
> think that most ABE teachers are underpaid and would see using data as
> worthwhile if they were not already doing so much for so little. If
> data will lead to a better program, will it also lead to a better
> salary?
>
>   Also, I think it is only fair to point out that data cannot
> necessarily inform all decisions. The target population is a moving
> target, groups come and go and what holds true for one group may not
> apply to another.
>
>   After all that, perhaps having instructors use their own data, from
> experiments they themselves have developed and conducted, may help get
> buy-in. What do they need? What do they want to know? How can they
> find out? What can they do with the information. If people are not
> used to dealing with data, then perhaps they need to see the power of
> the data first. Then they may feel more comfortable looking at data
> from an outside source.
>
>   Just some thoughts from a practioner.
>
> On 12/8/08, Marie Cora <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> A subscriber sent:
>>
>> How do you get staff to buy-in to a bigger focus on using data?  My
>> staff
>> really see this as an extra layer of effort and work at this point.
>> It's
>> hard to get them to see that some initial work on this will eventually
>> lead
>> to better teaching and programming.  Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Marie Cora, Moderator
>>
>> Assessment Discussion List
>>
>> National Institute for Literacy
>>
>> Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>>
>> Subscribe at:
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>>
>>
>>
>> Coordinator of Assessment
>>
>> Program Planning Resource Collection
>>
>> National Institute for Literacy
>>
>> Visit at:
>> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Assessment mailing list
>> Assessment at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>>
>>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to djrosen at theworld.com
>


From cathayreta at sbcglobal.net  Mon Dec  8 16:07:09 2008
From: cathayreta at sbcglobal.net (Cathay Reta)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 13:07:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Assessment 1481] Re: Using Data: Where to Start?
In-Reply-To: <480F5D7796E2AD4D89E56FD2BDA543155437080E0A@OLYMPIA.yc.edu>
Message-ID: <549292.85859.qm@web82707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello All,
I?m happy to jump in here with this question.? Where do you start?? I'd like to back into this a bit.? Let me first respond by posing some questions to you (and all interested in deciding where to start).? 1)? What do you want to know?? What are you trying to improve?? 2)? What data will give you that information?? And if you aren't sure, then as Tina suggested, conducting assessments with your students and staff may be the place to start.
For your consideration, here are a few places other programs have started.? One?is with student attendance.? ?How many hours a week/month are students attending?? As you may have looked at in the Hawthorne Family Literacy Program case study, there is?a definite correlation between student attendance and student learning gains.?? So perhaps you want to get a handle on your student attendance rate and go from there to decide how you can increase it.? Another program looked at their student attendance data, analyzed it and?saw that?attendance dropped drastically when the weather was bad.? So they had their instructors review inclement weather policy with their classes.? Another program had a similar finding related to holidays.? So they changed their schedule to not have classes during those low attendance times.
Another area may have to do with increasing the number of students you pre and post test.? That's also a good starting place, which leads me to my next point -- probably the most important (and least glamorous) point.? 
You need to make sure your data is valid and accurate.? Is?information entered into your database in a consistent manner?? One program in our project found that student information was not always entered the same way.? For instance, sometimes a nickname was used (Joe) and sometimes the full name was used (Joseph).?? So perhaps Joe had a pretest score in the database, and Joseph had a post-test score, but the two were not recognized as the same person.? After they cleaned up their data, and implemented a new procedure in which fewer people were involved in entering data, they increased?the number of students with pre and post test scores by 28%.? We found one of the model program promising practices is that they have one person in charge of data.? Others may help to input it, but it is the responsibility of one person.
So all of that to say, start with clean and accurate data.? Once you decide what you want to look at, make sure the data you will base your decisions on is valid.? 
Does that help at all????
Cathay Reta

Cathay O. Reta
Cornerstone Concepts
6670 Southside Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90022
Ph: 323) 728-4302
cathayreta at sbcglobal.net


?
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From mhefner at cccti.edu  Mon Dec  8 16:27:20 2008
From: mhefner at cccti.edu (Melinda Hefner)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 16:27:20 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1482]   Re: Using Data: Getting Staff Buy-In
In-Reply-To: <9FFE32E876AC0644B2C5FA25692DDC2E59624D1DA9@EXCMBXCLUS.hq.iu13.local>
References: <023f01c9593b$c1500840$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
	<1dd5701e0812080946g661ee5e0k2b6826a2d2aa0d99@mail.gmail.com>
	<9FFE32E876AC0644B2C5FA25692DDC2E59624D1DA9@EXCMBXCLUS.hq.iu13.local>
Message-ID: <493D4AE8.1F1A.005D.0@cccti.edu>

You sound as if you are doing a wonderful job.  I especially like that you said, "A key for me has been to describe, not judge, and to talk about what I can do to try and change the data -- rather than assign blame because the data is not what I want it to be."  From my point of view, program data is used to make things better, i.e. to improve instruction, to improve learning opportunities for students, to identify areas needing greater attention, etc.
 
In addition to using the required state performance data management system whereby we collect national and state performance data, our program has developed and implemented a database to examine some additional items which include but are not limited to:
 
1.  Where do we lose students?  after Orientation and Assessment?  after advisement and before enrolling?  after enrollment?  at what point after enrollment?
2.  What factors keep students from being able to attend?
3.  What factors help or support students to be able to attend?
4.  What program areas require our attention for improvement? 
5.  What program areas are working well and can be used as best practices?
6.  Which students require additional contacts and support?
 
While data collection and analysis can be a daunting task, the investment in time and other resources can provide tremendous benefits for program improvement, identification of staff development needs, allocation of resources, etc.  It can also be a "reality check" for administrators, instructors, staff, etc. when comparing what they "think" or "feel" to be true to what actually "is". 
 
Melinda
 
Melinda M. Hefner
Director, Literacy Support Services

Basic Skills Department
Caldwell Community College and Technical Institute
2855 Hickory Blvd.
Hudson, North Carolina 28638
Office: 828.726.2245
FAX:    828.726.2266


>>> On 12/8/2008 at 2:02 pm, in message <9FFE32E876AC0644B2C5FA25692DDC2E59624D1DA9 at EXCMBXCLUS.hq.iu13.local>, Sandy Strunk <sandy_strunk at IU13.org> wrote:
My experience has been that teachers are sometimes reluctant to use data because it seems so far removed from their day-to-day routines. We started by just feeding back to our teachers the information they had given us about their learners (test scores, attendance, goal attainment, progress, etc.). The first reaction was often "this isn't accurate" -- creating an opportunity for us to talk about the importance of validating data.

Once our data because more accurate, we began giving teachers their individual class information as well as the mean information for our program. This allowed teachers to compare their attendance, goal attainment, and learner gains to the average for our program. That led to many questions about why performance varied so much from class to class and fostered many opportunities for sharing best practices.

Finally, we asked our teachers to use their data to do written progress reports for our learners three times a year (we paid teachers for this time). We generated learner progress monitoring reports from our database, printed them with labels for teachers, and teachers added comments and observations prior to mailing each individual report. This not only made the data more useful for teachers, but it also engaged our learners with their individual data and underscored the correlation between regular attendance and learning gains.

I will also say that whether you're a teacher, student or administrator, looking at your own performance data is a humbling experience. A key for me has been to describe, not judge, and to talk about what I can do to try and change the data -- rather than assign blame because the data is not what I want it to be.

I also like the idea of having teachers generate their own inquiries and we try to support those inquiries through our professional development system. Unfortunately, as Jackie noted, part-time staff are often already stretched, so there's a limit on what they're able to take on in addition to their teaching.

Sandra J. Strunk
Program Director for Community Education
Lancaster Lebanon Intermediate Unit 13
1020 New Holland Avenue
Lancaster, PA 17601
(717) 606-1873
(717) 606-1705 - fax

Service, support...solutions

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Jackie Coelho
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:47 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1475] Re: Using Data: Getting Staff Buy-In

  At the risk of sounding snarky....which I sincerely do NOT intend, I
think that most ABE teachers are underpaid and would see using data as
worthwhile if they were not already doing so much for so little. If
data will lead to a better program, will it also lead to a better
salary?

  Also, I think it is only fair to point out that data cannot
necessarily inform all decisions. The target population is a moving
target, groups come and go and what holds true for one group may not
apply to another.

  After all that, perhaps having instructors use their own data, from
experiments they themselves have developed and conducted, may help get
buy-in. What do they need? What do they want to know? How can they
find out? What can they do with the information. If people are not
used to dealing with data, then perhaps they need to see the power of
the data first. Then they may feel more comfortable looking at data
from an outside source.

  Just some thoughts from a practioner.

On 12/8/08, Marie Cora <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> A subscriber sent:
>
> How do you get staff to buy-in to a bigger focus on using data?  My staff
> really see this as an extra layer of effort and work at this point.  It's
> hard to get them to see that some initial work on this will eventually lead
> to better teaching and programming.  Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Marie Cora, Moderator
>
> Assessment Discussion List
>
> National Institute for Literacy
>
> Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>
> Subscribe at:
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>
>
> Coordinator of Assessment
>
> Program Planning Resource Collection
>
> National Institute for Literacy
>
> Visit at:
> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>
>
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to sandy_strunk at iu13.org
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to mhefner at cccti.edu

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From cathayreta at sbcglobal.net  Mon Dec  8 16:29:16 2008
From: cathayreta at sbcglobal.net (Cathay Reta)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 13:29:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Assessment 1483] Re: Using Data: Where to Start?
In-Reply-To: <8D78422F94A7F84DA1B8C3597063C3A6046AFC81@mail.sc.pima.gov>
Message-ID: <780396.25473.qm@web82706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello Debbie, Tina?and others,
?
I?so agree with you both, and?involving instructional staff in deciding what data to collect and review is the best way to get staff buy-in, which we're addressing on another thread of this discussion.??This is a great bridge between the two questions.
?
Cathay

Cathay O. Reta
Cornerstone Concepts
6670 Southside Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90022
Ph: 323) 728-4302
cathayreta at sbcglobal.net

--- On Mon, 12/8/08, Tinajero, Debbie <dptinajero at sc.pima.gov> wrote:

From: Tinajero, Debbie <dptinajero at sc.pima.gov>
Subject: [Assessment 1477] Re: Using Data: Where to Start?
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 10:59 AM








I agree with this, Tina.? Using data for data?s sake is not a way to start.? You have to have a specific idea of what you want to know before you dig in.? Ask your staff what their biggest burning question is.? If they have different ideas, prioritize them together and then start looking for all the different kinds of places where you might find data to help you find the answer.? State database?? Your program?s data?? Attendance records?? 
?
Marie ? do you have a quick access source for different kinds of surveys?
?
Debbie Tinajero
Pima County Adult Probation LEARN
Tucson, AZ 
?




From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Luffman, Tina, Ellen
Sent: December 8, 2008 11:19 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1476] Re: Using Data: Where to Start?
?

Hi Marie,

?

I recently went through the Leadership Excellence Academy with Kathi Polis and Lennox McClendon, and we started with various self-assessment options. The academy felt that beginning with assessing the felt needs of the students, teachers, administrators, and stakeholders was a great way to determine what else needed to be done in our program. Then we used these self-assessments to decide what data we needed to review for purposes of program improvement. I am not sure if this is what you were looking for, but this is what came to mind.

?

Thanks,

?

Tina




From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Marie Cora [marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com]
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 6:50 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1474] Using Data: Where to Start?


A subscriber sent:
We would like to have more of a focus on data in our program, but it?s so difficult to know where to start ? we could work on so many different aspects of the program.? Does the panel have recommendations of what to tackle first, second, etc?? Or recommendations on how to decide what to do first?? 
? ???
? 
?
?

Marie Cora, Moderator
Assessment Discussion List 
National Institute for Literacy 
Email me at:? marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
Subscribe at:? http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
?
Coordinator of Assessment? 
Program Planning Resource Collection
National Institute for Literacy 
Visit at:? http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html
?
?
?-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to cathayreta at sbcglobal.net
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From dwilliams52 at sbcglobal.net  Mon Dec  8 16:37:08 2008
From: dwilliams52 at sbcglobal.net (David Williams)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 13:37:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Assessment 1484] Re: Using Data: Content and Materials
In-Reply-To: <024901c9593c$6f596850$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <331404.83843.qm@web83504.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hello All,
?
I also found the listing of materials related to the content of the discussion on assessment to be very extensive. While I also haven't been able to thoroughly digest all that was provided, I do intend to refer to the materials as we proceed in the discussion and to use this material for references as I continue to pursue the use of assessments and data in our organizational decision process.
?
Dave Williams
Principal
Beaumont Adult School
Beaumont CA

--- On Mon, 12/8/08, Marie Cora <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> wrote:

From: Marie Cora <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
Subject: [Assessment 1475] Using Data: Content and Materials
To: "'The Assessment Discussion List'" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 5:54 AM








Hi all,
?
I also have a question for subscribers:? what do you think of the content and materials that we put together for this discussion?? 
?
They can be found at:? http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/08data.html
?
Thanks!!? Your thoughts, reactions, and feedback are greatly appreciated!
?
Marie
?
?
?

Marie Cora, Moderator
Assessment Discussion List 
National Institute for Literacy 
Email me at:? marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
Subscribe at:? http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
?
Coordinator of Assessment? 
Program Planning Resource Collection
National Institute for Literacy 
Visit at:? http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html
?
?
?-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to dwilliams52 at sbcglobal.net
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From cathayreta at sbcglobal.net  Mon Dec  8 16:54:58 2008
From: cathayreta at sbcglobal.net (Cathay Reta)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 13:54:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Assessment 1485] Re: Using Data: Getting Staff Buy-In
In-Reply-To: <9FFE32E876AC0644B2C5FA25692DDC2E59624D1DA9@EXCMBXCLUS.hq.iu13.local>
Message-ID: <977403.49508.qm@web82706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Jackie,
?
You bring up a key issue which is a thread running through our three modules of the Performance Accountability training -- staff turnover.? When?staff is part-time and underpaid, as you point out, it is a challenge to make the changes we would like to; it seems to be burdensome to add more work for them.? And then they are often not around long enough to really build their experience base within an organization. ?A few of our model programs have made concerted effort to hire full time staff.? 
?
Even so, programs have made great strides forward with involving staff in data collection and analysis and it is especially successful when the data is meaningful, when it helps instructors to see how they can improve their work, as you described.? They may initially be brought into the process "because they are required to," but as they see "the power of data" then they truly buy-in to it.?? It is?important for programs to frame?data discussions?in such a way that instructors will see it is to support them -- not punish them.? 
?
Cathay

Cathay O. Reta
Cornerstone Concepts
6670 Southside Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90022
Ph: 323) 728-4302
cathayreta at sbcglobal.net

--- On Mon, 12/8/08, Sandy Strunk <sandy_strunk at IU13.org> wrote:

From: Sandy Strunk <sandy_strunk at IU13.org>
Subject: [Assessment 1478] Re: Using Data: Getting Staff Buy-In
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 11:02 AM

My experience has been that teachers are sometimes reluctant to use data because
it seems so far removed from their day-to-day routines. We started by just
feeding back to our teachers the information they had given us about their
learners (test scores, attendance, goal attainment, progress, etc.). The first
reaction was often "this isn't accurate" -- creating an
opportunity for us to talk about the importance of validating data.

Once our data because more accurate, we began giving teachers their individual
class information as well as the mean information for our program. This allowed
teachers to compare their attendance, goal attainment, and learner gains to the
average for our program. That led to many questions about why performance varied
so much from class to class and fostered many opportunities for sharing best
practices.

Finally, we asked our teachers to use their data to do written progress reports
for our learners three times a year (we paid teachers for this time). We
generated learner progress monitoring reports from our database, printed them
with labels for teachers, and teachers added comments and observations prior to
mailing each individual report. This not only made the data more useful for
teachers, but it also engaged our learners with their individual data and
underscored the correlation between regular attendance and learning gains.

I will also say that whether you're a teacher, student or administrator,
looking at your own performance data is a humbling experience. A key for me has
been to describe, not judge, and to talk about what I can do to try and change
the data -- rather than assign blame because the data is not what I want it to
be.

I also like the idea of having teachers generate their own inquiries and we try
to support those inquiries through our professional development system.
Unfortunately, as Jackie noted, part-time staff are often already stretched, so
there's a limit on what they're able to take on in addition to their
teaching.

Sandra J. Strunk
Program Director for Community Education
Lancaster Lebanon Intermediate Unit 13
1020 New Holland Avenue
Lancaster, PA 17601
(717) 606-1873
(717) 606-1705 - fax

Service, support...solutions

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Jackie Coelho
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:47 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1475] Re: Using Data: Getting Staff Buy-In

  At the risk of sounding snarky....which I sincerely do NOT intend, I
think that most ABE teachers are underpaid and would see using data as
worthwhile if they were not already doing so much for so little. If
data will lead to a better program, will it also lead to a better
salary?

  Also, I think it is only fair to point out that data cannot
necessarily inform all decisions. The target population is a moving
target, groups come and go and what holds true for one group may not
apply to another.

  After all that, perhaps having instructors use their own data, from
experiments they themselves have developed and conducted, may help get
buy-in. What do they need? What do they want to know? How can they
find out? What can they do with the information. If people are not
used to dealing with data, then perhaps they need to see the power of
the data first. Then they may feel more comfortable looking at data
from an outside source.

  Just some thoughts from a practioner.

On 12/8/08, Marie Cora <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> A subscriber sent:
>
> How do you get staff to buy-in to a bigger focus on using data?  My staff
> really see this as an extra layer of effort and work at this point. 
It's
> hard to get them to see that some initial work on this will eventually
lead
> to better teaching and programming.  Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Marie Cora, Moderator
>
> Assessment Discussion List
>
> National Institute for Literacy
>
> Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>
> Subscribe at:
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>
>
> Coordinator of Assessment
>
> Program Planning Resource Collection
>
> National Institute for Literacy
>
> Visit at:
> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>
>
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to sandy_strunk at iu13.org
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to cathayreta at sbcglobal.net
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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Mon Dec  8 18:09:59 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 18:09:59 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1486] Re: Using Data: Content and Materials
In-Reply-To: <493D2D53.1F1A.005D.0@cccti.edu>
Message-ID: <039601c9598a$188fdc90$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi Melinda,

 

Thanks so much for your feedback - and actually, I agree with you:  I
realize there are a lot of materials to review and I was disappointed (in
myself) for not having gotten the announcement out about a week sooner.  

 

But I'm glad to hear that the resources there are useful and interesting.  I
hope that folks take advantage of them.

 

marie

 

  

 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Melinda Hefner
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:21 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1479] Re: Using Data: Content and Materials

 

I actually think that the preparation materials were quite good and very
well organized.  While I haven't had time to look over everything, I am
going to try to "catch up" at some point.  My only suggestion is that we
have even more than the lead time you gave us for this very important
discussion.  (Please don't think of this as a criticism.  You gave us much
more lead time than most and your "rollout" of this discussion is top
notch.)  Thanks for pulling all of this together.  I really, really
appreciate your taking the lead to help adult literacy practitioners have
ongoing conversations about our discipline.

 

Melinda

 

Melinda M. Hefner
Director, Literacy Support Services

Basic Skills Department
Caldwell Community College and Technical Institute
2855 Hickory Blvd.
Hudson, North Carolina 28638
Office: 828.726.2245

FAX:    828.726.2266



>>> On 12/8/2008 at 8:54 am, in message
<024901c9593c$6f596850$0202a8c0 at LITNOW>, "Marie Cora"
<marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> wrote:

Hi all,

 

I also have a question for subscribers:  what do you think of the content
and materials that we put together for this discussion?  

 

They can be found at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/08data.html

 

Thanks!!  Your thoughts, reactions, and feedback are greatly appreciated!

 

Marie

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Mon Dec  8 18:20:57 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 18:20:57 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1487] Re: Using Data: Where to Start?
In-Reply-To: <8D78422F94A7F84DA1B8C3597063C3A6046AFC81@mail.sc.pima.gov>
Message-ID: <039b01c9598b$a09efcf0$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi Debbie and Tina,

 

I completely agree:  it's not often that you just want to start with a pile
of data.  Debbie's idea of identifying a "burning question" is a perfect
hook to go digging around for what data will tell you more about what you
want to know.  

 

Occasionally, programs do just start with some of their data, although
almost always there is a particular focus.  So for example, a program that
is really trying hard to consistently and accurately keep records of
attendance may wish to review the data on a monthly basis.  They might be
reviewing the data to check accuracy - but then they suddenly note that
attendance is slipping for a particular age group - and so they investigate
further to see what the real story is.  

 

If you end up taking the Module 1 online course on Data Collection and
Management (see Resources of Interest in the announcement), it discusses the
various ways that data can inform, confirm, or dispute perceptions.

 

Debbie - you asked about sources of assessment surveys - and I do not have a
particular source.  We have developed 2 program self assessments for the
initiative - one on Data Collection and Management, and one on Data Analysis
for Program Decision-Making (both of which can be found at the announcement
URL); in addition, we are now developing a program self assessment for the
upcoming Module Communicating Success to Stakeholders.  I will share this
last one with you all when it's ready.

 

Tina shared a good resource - the program assessment from the Leadership
Excellence Academy - Tina, is that resource free/available to the public?

 

Others: do you know of program assessments that you can share with the List?
I can compile the suggestions and make them available to everyone.

 

Thanks, marie 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Tinajero, Debbie
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 1:59 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1477] Re: Using Data: Where to Start?

 

I agree with this, Tina.  Using data for data's sake is not a way to start.
You have to have a specific idea of what you want to know before you dig in.
Ask your staff what their biggest burning question is.  If they have
different ideas, prioritize them together and then start looking for all the
different kinds of places where you might find data to help you find the
answer.  State database?  Your program's data?  Attendance records?  

 

Marie - do you have a quick access source for different kinds of surveys?

 

Debbie Tinajero

Pima County Adult Probation LEARN

Tucson, AZ 

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Luffman, Tina, Ellen
Sent: December 8, 2008 11:19 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1476] Re: Using Data: Where to Start?

 

Hi Marie,

 

I recently went through the Leadership Excellence Academy with Kathi Polis
and Lennox McClendon, and we started with various self-assessment options.
The academy felt that beginning with assessing the felt needs of the
students, teachers, administrators, and stakeholders was a great way to
determine what else needed to be done in our program. Then we used these
self-assessments to decide what data we needed to review for purposes of
program improvement. I am not sure if this is what you were looking for, but
this is what came to mind.

 

Thanks,

 

Tina

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of
Marie Cora [marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com]
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 6:50 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1474] Using Data: Where to Start?

A subscriber sent:

We would like to have more of a focus on data in our program, but it's so
difficult to know where to start - we could work on so many different
aspects of the program.  Does the panel have recommendations of what to
tackle first, second, etc?  Or recommendations on how to decide what to do
first?  

     

  

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Mon Dec  8 18:22:39 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 18:22:39 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1488] Re: Using Data: Getting Staff Buy-In
In-Reply-To: <1dd5701e0812080946g661ee5e0k2b6826a2d2aa0d99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <03a001c9598b$dd63c800$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi Jackie, thanks for this.  You do not sound snarky at all - in fact, this
is often what practitioners say - that they already have their hands way too
full with not enough compensation, so why should they take on more.  

I would like to note though, that data is information, and so it can come
from any source, at any time, in any form.  This does not necessarily mean
that it is dependable or useful - that is for the person analyzing the data
to determine.  But for example, observing your students and taking notes on
what you see is data.  And so one of the goals of this initiative is to
demonstrate this very concept to practitioners (and program directors) -
that they have access to rich data constantly.  But this data is not easily
used unless you have a good way to capture and store it, effective ways to
analyze it for what it means to you, and then a plan for using that data to
improve some piece of your teaching (or programming).

Data from outside sources - say the NALS, or even test scores - is only one
small piece of data that we can use.

Does this make sense?

Marie

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Jackie Coelho
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:47 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1475] Re: Using Data: Getting Staff Buy-In

  At the risk of sounding snarky....which I sincerely do NOT intend, I
think that most ABE teachers are underpaid and would see using data as
worthwhile if they were not already doing so much for so little. If
data will lead to a better program, will it also lead to a better
salary?

  Also, I think it is only fair to point out that data cannot
necessarily inform all decisions. The target population is a moving
target, groups come and go and what holds true for one group may not
apply to another.

  After all that, perhaps having instructors use their own data, from
experiments they themselves have developed and conducted, may help get
buy-in. What do they need? What do they want to know? How can they
find out? What can they do with the information. If people are not
used to dealing with data, then perhaps they need to see the power of
the data first. Then they may feel more comfortable looking at data
from an outside source.

  Just some thoughts from a practioner.

On 12/8/08, Marie Cora <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> A subscriber sent:
>
> How do you get staff to buy-in to a bigger focus on using data?  My staff
> really see this as an extra layer of effort and work at this point.  It's
> hard to get them to see that some initial work on this will eventually
lead
> to better teaching and programming.  Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Marie Cora, Moderator
>
> Assessment Discussion List
>
> National Institute for Literacy
>
> Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
>
> Subscribe at:
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>
>
>
> Coordinator of Assessment
>
> Program Planning Resource Collection
>
> National Institute for Literacy
>
> Visit at:
> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>
>
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com


From Tina.Luffman at yc.edu  Mon Dec  8 18:34:49 2008
From: Tina.Luffman at yc.edu (Luffman, Tina, Ellen)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 16:34:49 -0700
Subject: [Assessment 1489] Re: Using Data: Where to Start?
In-Reply-To: <039b01c9598b$a09efcf0$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
References: <8D78422F94A7F84DA1B8C3597063C3A6046AFC81@mail.sc.pima.gov>,
	<039b01c9598b$a09efcf0$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <480F5D7796E2AD4D89E56FD2BDA543155437080E0D@OLYMPIA.yc.edu>

Hi Marie,

The Leadership Excellence Academy is a training that states request to offer to their administrators/coordinators. The state pays a fee for each person to participate. The course is free to the programs and participants, at least that is how it has been done in Arizona.

Thanks,

Tina
________________________________
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Marie Cora [marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com]
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 4:20 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1487] Re: Using Data: Where to Start?

Hi Debbie and Tina,

I completely agree:  it?s not often that you just want to start with a pile of data.  Debbie?s idea of identifying a ?burning question? is a perfect hook to go digging around for what data will tell you more about what you want to know.

Occasionally, programs do just start with some of their data, although almost always there is a particular focus.  So for example, a program that is really trying hard to consistently and accurately keep records of attendance may wish to review the data on a monthly basis.  They might be reviewing the data to check accuracy ? but then they suddenly note that attendance is slipping for a particular age group ? and so they investigate further to see what the real story is.

If you end up taking the Module 1 online course on Data Collection and Management (see Resources of Interest in the announcement), it discusses the various ways that data can inform, confirm, or dispute perceptions.

Debbie ? you asked about sources of assessment surveys ? and I do not have a particular source.  We have developed 2 program self assessments for the initiative ? one on Data Collection and Management, and one on Data Analysis for Program Decision-Making (both of which can be found at the announcement URL); in addition, we are now developing a program self assessment for the upcoming Module Communicating Success to Stakeholders.  I will share this last one with you all when it?s ready.

Tina shared a good resource ? the program assessment from the Leadership Excellence Academy ? Tina, is that resource free/available to the public?

Others: do you know of program assessments that you can share with the List?  I can compile the suggestions and make them available to everyone.

Thanks, marie


-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Tinajero, Debbie
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 1:59 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1477] Re: Using Data: Where to Start?

I agree with this, Tina.  Using data for data?s sake is not a way to start.  You have to have a specific idea of what you want to know before you dig in.  Ask your staff what their biggest burning question is.  If they have different ideas, prioritize them together and then start looking for all the different kinds of places where you might find data to help you find the answer.  State database?  Your program?s data?  Attendance records?

Marie ? do you have a quick access source for different kinds of surveys?

Debbie Tinajero
Pima County Adult Probation LEARN
Tucson, AZ

________________________________
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Luffman, Tina, Ellen
Sent: December 8, 2008 11:19 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1476] Re: Using Data: Where to Start?

Hi Marie,

I recently went through the Leadership Excellence Academy with Kathi Polis and Lennox McClendon, and we started with various self-assessment options. The academy felt that beginning with assessing the felt needs of the students, teachers, administrators, and stakeholders was a great way to determine what else needed to be done in our program. Then we used these self-assessments to decide what data we needed to review for purposes of program improvement. I am not sure if this is what you were looking for, but this is what came to mind.

Thanks,

Tina
________________________________
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Marie Cora [marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com]
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 6:50 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1474] Using Data: Where to Start?
A subscriber sent:
We would like to have more of a focus on data in our program, but it?s so difficult to know where to start ? we could work on so many different aspects of the program.  Does the panel have recommendations of what to tackle first, second, etc?  Or recommendations on how to decide what to do first?




Marie Cora, Moderator
Assessment Discussion List
National Institute for Literacy
Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com<mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

Coordinator of Assessment
Program Planning Resource Collection
National Institute for Literacy
Visit at:  http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html



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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Mon Dec  8 18:43:22 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 18:43:22 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1490]  Just joining us?
Message-ID: <03d101c9598e$c22eb9c0$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi all,

 

If you are just now joining us, please visit:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/08data.html for full
information on our present discussion "Using Your Data to Improve Your
Program Services".  Please send your questions and comments to the List now.

 

You can read the discussion in a couple of ways:  

1. join us here in real time to read and/or add your voice to the
conversation; 

2. receive the daily posts in digest format so you can read them at the end
of the day (see below for instructions); 

3. read the discussion in the Assessment List archives at
http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/assessment/2008/date.html (you do not need to
be subscribed to read the daily archives)

4. read the discussion transcript once the discussion has closed - I prepare
the transcript in user-friendly format so that it can subsequently be used
in a variety of ways; I will post the transcript on the NIFL website; it
usually takes me a week or two to prepare it.

 

Any questions!?  Please don't hesitate to contact me.

 

Thanks, 

 

Marie Cora

Assessment Discussion List Moderator

marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com 

 

Digest Format

This format allows subscribers to receive Discussion List messages "bundled"
into one or two emails per day. The subject line will not be topic-specific,
so any replies to digest format often mean the subject line will need
adjusting before replying. Also, subscribers using digest format do not
receive the information that was posted right away. Because of that, this
option may or may not suit everyone's needs.

>From the Assessment Discussion List page:
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Scroll down to Unsubscribe and other options at the bottom and enter your
subscription email address.  

This takes you to a page where it asks you if you want to unsubscribe or to
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your password emailed to you if you've forgotten it.)

Once you've logged in, scroll down to where it reads "set digest mode".
Click this to "on", then scroll down further and click "submit my changes."

 

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From dcole at hawthorne.k12.ca.us  Mon Dec  8 19:31:18 2008
From: dcole at hawthorne.k12.ca.us (Cole, Donielle)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 16:31:18 -0800
Subject: [Assessment 1491] Re: Using Data: Where to Start?
In-Reply-To: <024401c9593b$f1635050$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
References: <024401c9593b$f1635050$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <80A382CABD54DC4EB76223315E5D7E17056B16E1@mail3.District.com>

Hello Everyone,

 

In deciding where to start it is helpful to focus on a key question.
Identify what area of your program you would like to improve or gather
more information about.  If you have an area of targeted improvement
that would be a great place to start framing your key question.  Another
option would be to start by looking at your program strengths. Many
times we view looking at data as finding what's wrong with our program.
Which often is encountered by resistance.  If we look at our strengths
it is a great way to validate the work that is being done in our
programs.  Who doesn't like to hear what we are doing right?  When
forming your key question it is important to include all stakeholders,
administration, students and staff. 

 

As an administrator I like to approach our data from the viewpoint of
what are we doing well and what can we do better?  Focusing on
continuing quality improvement is a win-win for everyone.  When you look
at data it helps you to achieve your goals by telling you that what you
are doing is making a difference.  Data can include both qualitative and
quantitative measures.  One of the things we now do in our weekly
meetings is discuss successes in each classroom.    This is important
data and it validates the work teachers do every day in the classroom. 

 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:51 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1474] Using Data: Where to Start?

 

A subscriber sent:

We would like to have more of a focus on data in our program, but it's
so difficult to know where to start - we could work on so many different
aspects of the program.  Does the panel have recommendations of what to
tackle first, second, etc?  Or recommendations on how to decide what to
do first?  

     

  

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From dcw113 at psu.edu  Tue Dec  9 11:23:25 2008
From: dcw113 at psu.edu (Drucilla Weirauch)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 11:23:25 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1492] Re: Using Data
In-Reply-To: <03a001c9598b$dd63c800$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
References: <1dd5701e0812080946g661ee5e0k2b6826a2d2aa0d99@mail.gmail.com>
	<03a001c9598b$dd63c800$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <200812091623.mB9GNPr6229682@f05n03.cac.psu.edu>

In Pennsylvania we have a statewide program improvement initiative 
that uses a specific Practitioner Action Research (PAR) model. Each 
program chooses its own area of inquiry, based on its data. These 
data may be hard data (scores, hours, enrollment numbers, etc.) or 
other data, based on our Indicators of Program Quality (for example, 
the quality of the adult education classroom environment or depth of 
partnerships). Last year, there were 61 projects conducted by PA 
Family Literacy sites. Topics ranged from increasing enrollment or 
retention hours, implementing scientifically-based reading research 
in the adult classroom, improving children's oral receptive 
vocabulary, to increasing referrals from partners. In the spring we 
hosted regional poster shows where programs showcased their projects 
and results. Each program also submitted a monograph that detailed 
their question and background to it (the data), the interventions, 
data sources, results, reflections, and implications for the field.

Monographs can be found at our website 
www.pafamilyliteracy.org.  Left side, click on SEQUAL project, then Monographs.

The website also includes the PAR handbook that helped the programs 
identify a problem based on data, intervention,  choose best data sources, etc.

I evaluated the process to ascertain practitioners' perceptions of 
the inaugural year of the intentional, systematic PAR process. While 
it added a layer of work, most felt that it empowered them as 
practitioners and gave their program "teeth." What was also important 
is that this allowed them to show highlights of their program and 
program improvement that mere data do not always capture (e.g. data 
reported to the state and feds.) Programs used data to inform their 
question and chart their success. Analyzing and reflecting on the 
data made it more than mere numbers. This evaluation report is also 
on the website. It includes a summary of the outcomes from the 
projects and the perceptions of the participants on the research process.

Drucie Weirauch
Penn State University
Goodling Institute for Research in Family Literacy


From cathayreta at sbcglobal.net  Tue Dec  9 20:03:32 2008
From: cathayreta at sbcglobal.net (Cathay Reta)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 17:03:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Assessment 1493] Re: Using Data
In-Reply-To: <200812091623.mB9GNPr6229682@f05n03.cac.psu.edu>
Message-ID: <42397.82025.qm@web82704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Drucilla,
?
I checked out the website you referred to and am really impressed with the work.??These projects are a great way to get staff to begin interacting around data.? 

Cathay O. Reta
Cornerstone Concepts
6670 Southside Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90022
Ph: 323) 728-4302
cathayreta at sbcglobal.net

--- On Tue, 12/9/08, Drucilla Weirauch <dcw113 at psu.edu> wrote:

From: Drucilla Weirauch <dcw113 at psu.edu>
Subject: [Assessment 1492] Re: Using Data
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 8:23 AM

In Pennsylvania we have a statewide program improvement initiative 
that uses a specific Practitioner Action Research (PAR) model. Each 
program chooses its own area of inquiry, based on its data. These 
data may be hard data (scores, hours, enrollment numbers, etc.) or 
other data, based on our Indicators of Program Quality (for example, 
the quality of the adult education classroom environment or depth of 
partnerships). Last year, there were 61 projects conducted by PA 
Family Literacy sites. Topics ranged from increasing enrollment or 
retention hours, implementing scientifically-based reading research 
in the adult classroom, improving children's oral receptive 
vocabulary, to increasing referrals from partners. In the spring we 
hosted regional poster shows where programs showcased their projects 
and results. Each program also submitted a monograph that detailed 
their question and background to it (the data), the interventions, 
data sources, results, reflections, and implications for the field.

Monographs can be found at our website 
www.pafamilyliteracy.org.  Left side, click on SEQUAL project, then Monographs.

The website also includes the PAR handbook that helped the programs 
identify a problem based on data, intervention,  choose best data sources, etc.

I evaluated the process to ascertain practitioners' perceptions of 
the inaugural year of the intentional, systematic PAR process. While 
it added a layer of work, most felt that it empowered them as 
practitioners and gave their program "teeth." What was also important

is that this allowed them to show highlights of their program and 
program improvement that mere data do not always capture (e.g. data 
reported to the state and feds.) Programs used data to inform their 
question and chart their success. Analyzing and reflecting on the 
data made it more than mere numbers. This evaluation report is also 
on the website. It includes a summary of the outcomes from the 
projects and the perceptions of the participants on the research process.

Drucie Weirauch
Penn State University
Goodling Institute for Research in Family Literacy

-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to cathayreta at sbcglobal.net
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From DJRosen at theworld.com  Wed Dec 10 06:57:15 2008
From: DJRosen at theworld.com (David Rosen)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 06:57:15 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1494] Re: Using Data
In-Reply-To: <200812091623.mB9GNPr6229682@f05n03.cac.psu.edu>
References: <1dd5701e0812080946g661ee5e0k2b6826a2d2aa0d99@mail.gmail.com>
	<03a001c9598b$dd63c800$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
	<200812091623.mB9GNPr6229682@f05n03.cac.psu.edu>
Message-ID: <B4D23A97-F33C-452A-B28A-40D930A86473@theworld.com>

Drucie and others,

Earlier in this discussion I asked for specific examples (narratives)  
of teachers systematically using program data to answer their  
questions. In the SEQUEL Monographs that you suggested we look at,  
found at

http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org/pafamilyliteracy/cwp/view.asp? 
a=223&Q=145708&PM=1

I see several good examples in these monographs. Thank you for  
calling them to our attention. I would like to mention one, in  
particular, the Seneca Highlands Intermediate Unit 9??Cooperative  
Learning in Adult Education to Improve Attitudes and Skills in Math? .

One of the biggest challenges our field faces is that very, very few  
(I think under 4%) of those in adult secondary education who say they  
want to go to college actually complete a degree. There are many  
reasons for this, but one of the biggest is that they cannot pass  
(usually required) college algebra.  This is because they did not get  
(positive)  exposure to algebra either in school or in an adult  
literacy education program. It is also because -- even if algebra is  
offered in their ASE program -- many have negative attitudes about,  
or fear of, learning algebra.  This study, carried out by program  
practitioners, looks at the use of cooperative learning as a strategy  
to help students overcome negative attitudes and increase knowledge  
of algebra during an eight-week program. The monograph is short, well- 
written, easy to read, and has some findings worth getting excited  
about. It would be great if there were other programs, where teachers  
care about this problem, that could replicate it. I wonder if any  
programs in Pennsylvania have already done that.

It would be terrific if there were a U.S. national adult literacy  
research institute (such as NCSALL was) that would make funds  
available to support programs replicating important studies such as  
this, to help build a body of professional wisdom on the use of  
cooperative learning in adult numeracy and mathematics. This might  
provide a sufficient base of evidence to see if it is worthwhile  
later to do "gold standard" experimental research.

Thanks, Drucie, and other leaders at all levels in Pennsylvania, who  
have for many years now supported programs using data for program  
decision-making. It looks like this may be paying off for  
Pennsylvania practitioners, as they learn what does and doesn't work  
for their students, and it is contributing to a literature of  
professional wisdom* so necessary in our field.

David J. Rosen
djrosen at theworld.com

* For a dialogue about professional wisdom (including a definition)  
with John Comings, former Director of the U.S. National Center for  
the Study of Adult learning and Literacy,  see: http:// 
wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Professional_Wisdom




On Dec 9, 2008, at 11:23 AM, Drucilla Weirauch wrote:

> In Pennsylvania we have a statewide program improvement initiative
> that uses a specific Practitioner Action Research (PAR) model. Each
> program chooses its own area of inquiry, based on its data. These
> data may be hard data (scores, hours, enrollment numbers, etc.) or
> other data, based on our Indicators of Program Quality (for example,
> the quality of the adult education classroom environment or depth of
> partnerships). Last year, there were 61 projects conducted by PA
> Family Literacy sites. Topics ranged from increasing enrollment or
> retention hours, implementing scientifically-based reading research
> in the adult classroom, improving children's oral receptive
> vocabulary, to increasing referrals from partners. In the spring we
> hosted regional poster shows where programs showcased their projects
> and results. Each program also submitted a monograph that detailed
> their question and background to it (the data), the interventions,
> data sources, results, reflections, and implications for the field.
>
> Monographs can be found at our website
> www.pafamilyliteracy.org.  Left side, click on SEQUAL project, then  
> Monographs.
>
> The website also includes the PAR handbook that helped the programs
> identify a problem based on data, intervention,  choose best data  
> sources, etc.
>
> I evaluated the process to ascertain practitioners' perceptions of
> the inaugural year of the intentional, systematic PAR process. While
> it added a layer of work, most felt that it empowered them as
> practitioners and gave their program "teeth." What was also important
> is that this allowed them to show highlights of their program and
> program improvement that mere data do not always capture (e.g. data
> reported to the state and feds.) Programs used data to inform their
> question and chart their success. Analyzing and reflecting on the
> data made it more than mere numbers. This evaluation report is also
> on the website. It includes a summary of the outcomes from the
> projects and the perceptions of the participants on the research  
> process.
>
> Drucie Weirauch
> Penn State University
> Goodling Institute for Research in Family Literacy
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to djrosen at theworld.com







From lkeefer at gplc.org  Wed Dec 10 08:35:58 2008
From: lkeefer at gplc.org (Lori Keefer)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 08:35:58 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1494]  Getting staff used to using data
In-Reply-To: <B4D23A97-F33C-452A-B28A-40D930A86473@theworld.com>
Message-ID: <20081210133605.9BA2811B26@mail.nifl.gov>

Having staff have buy-in to looking at and using data can be a challenge but
if programs make the effort to make this a part of what they do, it will
become institutionalized over time. 
One way to begin to look at data is to bring some data to a staff meeting.
Do an activity where everyone gets a chance to look at the data and see what
stands out to them.  Then go around the room and let each person say what
stands out.  (Include ALL staff in this- teachers, administrators, support
personnel, volunteers).  Make a list of the things that stand out and then
have a discussion about the different things.  It could be that people
notice something really good or maybe an area of needed improvement.  
We do this with our year end data every year.  We look at enrollment,
retention, gains, goals achieved, demographics, numbers of ABE/GED/ESL
students, inquiries, and more.  We usually find a few things to focus on for
the next program year from this activity.  Some of our best ideas for
program improvement have come from our receptionist and office manager, as
they were looking at the data from a different perspective.

We also started adding looking at data to all of our meetings.  We choose an
area to look at and examine (this is done in our monthly program improvement
meetings, teacher meetings, and other sub-groups of our staff's meetings).
We always try to look at data before making program changes (if the data is
available).  Teachers eventually have gotten used to looking at the data and
seeing how it can inform their practice. They are more aware of their
students' attendance and testing information and can be more helpful in
helping the agency to make standards. 

If your staff are not used to looking at data, start small but keep it
consistent.  Make it a habit and eventually it will be part of what they do.

We do have great systems in PA where using data is something that is
required at the state level.  Our program improvement plans that are
required for state funding must be built on data analysis.  We have many
teachers and administrators that do practitioner research.  However, this
doesn't mean that using data for program improvement is always easy.  It is
time consuming but without it we are making decisions based on intuition or
hunches, which can have disastrous results.  Change is sometimes
uncomfortable but all staff can see the value of using data once they learn
how to look at it and how it can better inform their practice.

********************************************
Lori Keefer
Program Director
Greater Pittsburgh Literacy Council
100 Sheridan Square 4th floor
Pittsburgh PA 15206
412.661.7323 ext 131
fax: 412.661.3040
lkeefer at gplc.org
www.gplc.org
 
This email is intended solely for the use of the named addressees and is not
meant for general distribution. If you are not the intended recipient,
please report the error to the originator and delete the contents.
 
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of David Rosen
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:57 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1494] Re: Using Data

Drucie and others,

Earlier in this discussion I asked for specific examples (narratives)  
of teachers systematically using program data to answer their  
questions. In the SEQUEL Monographs that you suggested we look at,  
found at

http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org/pafamilyliteracy/cwp/view.asp? 
a=223&Q=145708&PM=1

I see several good examples in these monographs. Thank you for  
calling them to our attention. I would like to mention one, in  
particular, the Seneca Highlands Intermediate Unit 9-"Cooperative  
Learning in Adult Education to Improve Attitudes and Skills in Math" .

One of the biggest challenges our field faces is that very, very few  
(I think under 4%) of those in adult secondary education who say they  
want to go to college actually complete a degree. There are many  
reasons for this, but one of the biggest is that they cannot pass  
(usually required) college algebra.  This is because they did not get  
(positive)  exposure to algebra either in school or in an adult  
literacy education program. It is also because -- even if algebra is  
offered in their ASE program -- many have negative attitudes about,  
or fear of, learning algebra.  This study, carried out by program  
practitioners, looks at the use of cooperative learning as a strategy  
to help students overcome negative attitudes and increase knowledge  
of algebra during an eight-week program. The monograph is short, well- 
written, easy to read, and has some findings worth getting excited  
about. It would be great if there were other programs, where teachers  
care about this problem, that could replicate it. I wonder if any  
programs in Pennsylvania have already done that.

It would be terrific if there were a U.S. national adult literacy  
research institute (such as NCSALL was) that would make funds  
available to support programs replicating important studies such as  
this, to help build a body of professional wisdom on the use of  
cooperative learning in adult numeracy and mathematics. This might  
provide a sufficient base of evidence to see if it is worthwhile  
later to do "gold standard" experimental research.

Thanks, Drucie, and other leaders at all levels in Pennsylvania, who  
have for many years now supported programs using data for program  
decision-making. It looks like this may be paying off for  
Pennsylvania practitioners, as they learn what does and doesn't work  
for their students, and it is contributing to a literature of  
professional wisdom* so necessary in our field.

David J. Rosen
djrosen at theworld.com

* For a dialogue about professional wisdom (including a definition)  
with John Comings, former Director of the U.S. National Center for  
the Study of Adult learning and Literacy,  see: http:// 
wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Professional_Wisdom




On Dec 9, 2008, at 11:23 AM, Drucilla Weirauch wrote:

> In Pennsylvania we have a statewide program improvement initiative
> that uses a specific Practitioner Action Research (PAR) model. Each
> program chooses its own area of inquiry, based on its data. These
> data may be hard data (scores, hours, enrollment numbers, etc.) or
> other data, based on our Indicators of Program Quality (for example,
> the quality of the adult education classroom environment or depth of
> partnerships). Last year, there were 61 projects conducted by PA
> Family Literacy sites. Topics ranged from increasing enrollment or
> retention hours, implementing scientifically-based reading research
> in the adult classroom, improving children's oral receptive
> vocabulary, to increasing referrals from partners. In the spring we
> hosted regional poster shows where programs showcased their projects
> and results. Each program also submitted a monograph that detailed
> their question and background to it (the data), the interventions,
> data sources, results, reflections, and implications for the field.
>
> Monographs can be found at our website
> www.pafamilyliteracy.org.  Left side, click on SEQUAL project, then  
> Monographs.
>
> The website also includes the PAR handbook that helped the programs
> identify a problem based on data, intervention,  choose best data  
> sources, etc.
>
> I evaluated the process to ascertain practitioners' perceptions of
> the inaugural year of the intentional, systematic PAR process. While
> it added a layer of work, most felt that it empowered them as
> practitioners and gave their program "teeth." What was also important
> is that this allowed them to show highlights of their program and
> program improvement that mere data do not always capture (e.g. data
> reported to the state and feds.) Programs used data to inform their
> question and chart their success. Analyzing and reflecting on the
> data made it more than mere numbers. This evaluation report is also
> on the website. It includes a summary of the outcomes from the
> projects and the perceptions of the participants on the research  
> process.
>
> Drucie Weirauch
> Penn State University
> Goodling Institute for Research in Family Literacy
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to djrosen at theworld.com






-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to lkeefer at gplc.org



From lkeefer at gplc.org  Wed Dec 10 08:52:14 2008
From: lkeefer at gplc.org (Lori Keefer)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 08:52:14 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1495]  Using data
In-Reply-To: <B4D23A97-F33C-452A-B28A-40D930A86473@theworld.com>
Message-ID: <20081210135216.2AD9C11B72@mail.nifl.gov>

For programs that are not used to using data or want a guide for the
process, NCSALL has a great publication called "How Are We Doing?  An
inquiry guide for Adult Education Programs" by Mary Beth Bingman with Olga
Ebert.  
To find this, follow this link:
http://www.ncsall.net/fileadmin/resources/teach/inquiry_guide.pdf


********************************************
Lori Keefer
Program Director
Greater Pittsburgh Literacy Council
100 Sheridan Square 4th floor
Pittsburgh PA 15206
412.661.7323 ext 131
fax: 412.661.3040
lkeefer at gplc.org
www.gplc.org
 
This email is intended solely for the use of the named addressees and is not
meant for general distribution. If you are not the intended recipient,
please report the error to the originator and delete the contents.



From gdemetrion at msn.com  Wed Dec 10 10:01:55 2008
From: gdemetrion at msn.com (gdemetrion at msn.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:01:55 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1496] Re: Getting staff used to using data
In-Reply-To: <20081210133605.9BA2811B26@mail.nifl.gov>
References: <B4D23A97-F33C-452A-B28A-40D930A86473@theworld.com>
	<20081210133605.9BA2811B26@mail.nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <BAY121-W54E40932D112180AF5F108C5FB0@phx.gbl>


Good morning all,One of the keys, I think, is that of distinguishing the different purposes of assessment, which is a term that is extemely broad in application.  Clearly the ideal is assessment and instruction mutually informing each other.  On the other hand, some assessment instruments are used (if not designed) first and foremost as a statistical measuring instrument.  Other assessment tools are designed primarily as a source of information to ennance the immediate instructional context which may or may not be (easily) incorporated into systemic data collections which factort into reports or information that go to various external reporting venues.
 
I think keeping the distinction in mind is as important as is that of seeking to identifying viable convergences where the several dimensions and purposes of assessment can be brought together.  Otherwise we run into various information overload scenarios or pass on informagtion that does not seem relevant at least to those who are looking at it.
 
Having excellent translators at programmatic, executive and policy levels helps a great deal, though I wouldn't discount the enduring reality of the various gaps and meanings that diverse stakeholders place on the term.
 
Ultimately, assessment is a type of literacy practice (referring to the literacy studies school) grounded ultimately (I believe) in the politics of literacy in which political culture, pedagogy, and evaluation are complexly intwined as played out in various discourse power-knoweledge relationships in a culturally-based synmbolic meaning system in which various constituencies of unequal power and status vie for influence.
 
On this broad topic, I heartly recommend Jurgen Habermas' important text, Between Facts and Norms:  Contributions to a Discourse Theory of law and Democracy http://www.amazon.com/Between-Facts-Norms-Contributions-Contemporary/dp/0262581620. To be sure this book is not an easy read and not all will agree with Habermas' reflections.  However, check out the Amazon reviews for some clues of his thinking.
 
George Demetrion
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From cathayreta at sbcglobal.net  Wed Dec 10 12:30:27 2008
From: cathayreta at sbcglobal.net (Cathay Reta)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:30:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Assessment 1497] Re: Getting staff used to using data
In-Reply-To: <20081210133605.9BA2811B26@mail.nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <500872.76615.qm@web82704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Lori,
?
I so appreciate how you involve your staff in using data.? About how long did it take to get the level of staff buy-in that you have now?? 
?
I know many of our programs in this project are surprised at how long it takes to really make these changes to the culture of the organization, and it would be helpful for people to realize this.? Progress is often slow, but?steady.
?
Cathay?

Cathay O. Reta
Cornerstone Concepts
6670 Southside Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90022
Ph: 323) 728-4302
cathayreta at sbcglobal.net

--- On Wed, 12/10/08, Lori Keefer <lkeefer at gplc.org> wrote:

From: Lori Keefer <lkeefer at gplc.org>
Subject: [Assessment 1494] Getting staff used to using data
To: "'The Assessment Discussion List'" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 5:35 AM

Having staff have buy-in to looking at and using data can be a challenge but
if programs make the effort to make this a part of what they do, it will
become institutionalized over time. 
One way to begin to look at data is to bring some data to a staff meeting.
Do an activity where everyone gets a chance to look at the data and see what
stands out to them.  Then go around the room and let each person say what
stands out.  (Include ALL staff in this- teachers, administrators, support
personnel, volunteers).  Make a list of the things that stand out and then
have a discussion about the different things.  It could be that people
notice something really good or maybe an area of needed improvement.  
We do this with our year end data every year.  We look at enrollment,
retention, gains, goals achieved, demographics, numbers of ABE/GED/ESL
students, inquiries, and more.  We usually find a few things to focus on for
the next program year from this activity.  Some of our best ideas for
program improvement have come from our receptionist and office manager, as
they were looking at the data from a different perspective.

We also started adding looking at data to all of our meetings.  We choose an
area to look at and examine (this is done in our monthly program improvement
meetings, teacher meetings, and other sub-groups of our staff's meetings).
We always try to look at data before making program changes (if the data is
available).  Teachers eventually have gotten used to looking at the data and
seeing how it can inform their practice. They are more aware of their
students' attendance and testing information and can be more helpful in
helping the agency to make standards. 

If your staff are not used to looking at data, start small but keep it
consistent.  Make it a habit and eventually it will be part of what they do.

We do have great systems in PA where using data is something that is
required at the state level.  Our program improvement plans that are
required for state funding must be built on data analysis.  We have many
teachers and administrators that do practitioner research.  However, this
doesn't mean that using data for program improvement is always easy.  It is
time consuming but without it we are making decisions based on intuition or
hunches, which can have disastrous results.  Change is sometimes
uncomfortable but all staff can see the value of using data once they learn
how to look at it and how it can better inform their practice.

********************************************
Lori Keefer
Program Director
Greater Pittsburgh Literacy Council
100 Sheridan Square 4th floor
Pittsburgh PA 15206
412.661.7323 ext 131
fax: 412.661.3040
lkeefer at gplc.org
www.gplc.org
 
This email is intended solely for the use of the named addressees and is not
meant for general distribution. If you are not the intended recipient,
please report the error to the originator and delete the contents.
 
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of David Rosen
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:57 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1494] Re: Using Data

Drucie and others,

Earlier in this discussion I asked for specific examples (narratives)  
of teachers systematically using program data to answer their  
questions. In the SEQUEL Monographs that you suggested we look at,  
found at

http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org/pafamilyliteracy/cwp/view.asp? 
a=223&Q=145708&PM=1

I see several good examples in these monographs. Thank you for  
calling them to our attention. I would like to mention one, in  
particular, the Seneca Highlands Intermediate Unit 9-"Cooperative  
Learning in Adult Education to Improve Attitudes and Skills in Math" .

One of the biggest challenges our field faces is that very, very few  
(I think under 4%) of those in adult secondary education who say they  
want to go to college actually complete a degree. There are many  
reasons for this, but one of the biggest is that they cannot pass  
(usually required) college algebra.  This is because they did not get  
(positive)  exposure to algebra either in school or in an adult  
literacy education program. It is also because -- even if algebra is  
offered in their ASE program -- many have negative attitudes about,  
or fear of, learning algebra.  This study, carried out by program  
practitioners, looks at the use of cooperative learning as a strategy  
to help students overcome negative attitudes and increase knowledge  
of algebra during an eight-week program. The monograph is short, well- 
written, easy to read, and has some findings worth getting excited  
about. It would be great if there were other programs, where teachers  
care about this problem, that could replicate it. I wonder if any  
programs in Pennsylvania have already done that.

It would be terrific if there were a U.S. national adult literacy  
research institute (such as NCSALL was) that would make funds  
available to support programs replicating important studies such as  
this, to help build a body of professional wisdom on the use of  
cooperative learning in adult numeracy and mathematics. This might  
provide a sufficient base of evidence to see if it is worthwhile  
later to do "gold standard" experimental research.

Thanks, Drucie, and other leaders at all levels in Pennsylvania, who  
have for many years now supported programs using data for program  
decision-making. It looks like this may be paying off for  
Pennsylvania practitioners, as they learn what does and doesn't work  
for their students, and it is contributing to a literature of  
professional wisdom* so necessary in our field.

David J. Rosen
djrosen at theworld.com

* For a dialogue about professional wisdom (including a definition)  
with John Comings, former Director of the U.S. National Center for  
the Study of Adult learning and Literacy,  see: http:// 
wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Professional_Wisdom




On Dec 9, 2008, at 11:23 AM, Drucilla Weirauch wrote:

> In Pennsylvania we have a statewide program improvement initiative
> that uses a specific Practitioner Action Research (PAR) model. Each
> program chooses its own area of inquiry, based on its data. These
> data may be hard data (scores, hours, enrollment numbers, etc.) or
> other data, based on our Indicators of Program Quality (for example,
> the quality of the adult education classroom environment or depth of
> partnerships). Last year, there were 61 projects conducted by PA
> Family Literacy sites. Topics ranged from increasing enrollment or
> retention hours, implementing scientifically-based reading research
> in the adult classroom, improving children's oral receptive
> vocabulary, to increasing referrals from partners. In the spring we
> hosted regional poster shows where programs showcased their projects
> and results. Each program also submitted a monograph that detailed
> their question and background to it (the data), the interventions,
> data sources, results, reflections, and implications for the field.
>
> Monographs can be found at our website
> www.pafamilyliteracy.org.  Left side, click on SEQUAL project, then  
> Monographs.
>
> The website also includes the PAR handbook that helped the programs
> identify a problem based on data, intervention,  choose best data  
> sources, etc.
>
> I evaluated the process to ascertain practitioners' perceptions of
> the inaugural year of the intentional, systematic PAR process. While
> it added a layer of work, most felt that it empowered them as
> practitioners and gave their program "teeth." What was also
important
> is that this allowed them to show highlights of their program and
> program improvement that mere data do not always capture (e.g. data
> reported to the state and feds.) Programs used data to inform their
> question and chart their success. Analyzing and reflecting on the
> data made it more than mere numbers. This evaluation report is also
> on the website. It includes a summary of the outcomes from the
> projects and the perceptions of the participants on the research  
> process.
>
> Drucie Weirauch
> Penn State University
> Goodling Institute for Research in Family Literacy
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to djrosen at theworld.com






-------------------------------
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Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to lkeefer at gplc.org


-------------------------------
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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Wed Dec 10 13:30:36 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:30:36 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1498] Re: Using Data
In-Reply-To: <200812091623.mB9GNPr6229682@f05n03.cac.psu.edu>
Message-ID: <05d701c95af5$6701d330$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi Drucie,

Thanks so much for this.  The website has really interesting resources, and
the monographs are - as Cathay noted - impressive.  Practitioner research
projects are the perfect framework for working with data.

I really liked the steps that are outlined on the Monographs page:
question, intervention(s), methodology, reflection, adjust, analyze results.
These are great descriptors for the steps involved in using data
effectively.

I also like where you note below that data "gives the program teeth" - this
is so true.  Having solid data and knowing what to do with it can open many
doors with partners and funders, as well as make the program internally
stronger and more effective.

Thanks so much for sharing this resource Drucie,

Marie



-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Drucilla Weirauch
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:23 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1492] Re: Using Data

In Pennsylvania we have a statewide program improvement initiative 
that uses a specific Practitioner Action Research (PAR) model. Each 
program chooses its own area of inquiry, based on its data. These 
data may be hard data (scores, hours, enrollment numbers, etc.) or 
other data, based on our Indicators of Program Quality (for example, 
the quality of the adult education classroom environment or depth of 
partnerships). Last year, there were 61 projects conducted by PA 
Family Literacy sites. Topics ranged from increasing enrollment or 
retention hours, implementing scientifically-based reading research 
in the adult classroom, improving children's oral receptive 
vocabulary, to increasing referrals from partners. In the spring we 
hosted regional poster shows where programs showcased their projects 
and results. Each program also submitted a monograph that detailed 
their question and background to it (the data), the interventions, 
data sources, results, reflections, and implications for the field.

Monographs can be found at our website 
www.pafamilyliteracy.org.  Left side, click on SEQUAL project, then
Monographs.

The website also includes the PAR handbook that helped the programs 
identify a problem based on data, intervention,  choose best data sources,
etc.

I evaluated the process to ascertain practitioners' perceptions of 
the inaugural year of the intentional, systematic PAR process. While 
it added a layer of work, most felt that it empowered them as 
practitioners and gave their program "teeth." What was also important 
is that this allowed them to show highlights of their program and 
program improvement that mere data do not always capture (e.g. data 
reported to the state and feds.) Programs used data to inform their 
question and chart their success. Analyzing and reflecting on the 
data made it more than mere numbers. This evaluation report is also 
on the website. It includes a summary of the outcomes from the 
projects and the perceptions of the participants on the research process.

Drucie Weirauch
Penn State University
Goodling Institute for Research in Family Literacy

-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com


From cathayreta at sbcglobal.net  Wed Dec 10 13:50:44 2008
From: cathayreta at sbcglobal.net (Cathay Reta)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:50:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Assessment 1499] Re: Using Data
In-Reply-To: <05d701c95af5$6701d330$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <467750.10128.qm@web82702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Marie and All,
?
Yes, solid data is so important to getting support for our programs, especially when accompanied by those great student stories which we all have and tell.? It is the story that gets people listening, pulling at their heart strings.? It is the data which assures them the story isn't a one-time occurence, but that our program changes the lives of lots of people and is worth their investment.
?
Cathay

Cathay O. Reta
Cornerstone Concepts
6670 Southside Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90022
Ph: 323) 728-4302
cathayreta at sbcglobal.net

--- On Wed, 12/10/08, Marie Cora <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> wrote:

From: Marie Cora <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
Subject: [Assessment 1498] Re: Using Data
To: "'The Assessment Discussion List'" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 10:30 AM

Hi Drucie,

Thanks so much for this.  The website has really interesting resources, and
the monographs are - as Cathay noted - impressive.  Practitioner research
projects are the perfect framework for working with data.

I really liked the steps that are outlined on the Monographs page:
question, intervention(s), methodology, reflection, adjust, analyze results.
These are great descriptors for the steps involved in using data
effectively.

I also like where you note below that data "gives the program teeth"
- this
is so true.  Having solid data and knowing what to do with it can open many
doors with partners and funders, as well as make the program internally
stronger and more effective.

Thanks so much for sharing this resource Drucie,

Marie



-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Drucilla Weirauch
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:23 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1492] Re: Using Data

In Pennsylvania we have a statewide program improvement initiative 
that uses a specific Practitioner Action Research (PAR) model. Each 
program chooses its own area of inquiry, based on its data. These 
data may be hard data (scores, hours, enrollment numbers, etc.) or 
other data, based on our Indicators of Program Quality (for example, 
the quality of the adult education classroom environment or depth of 
partnerships). Last year, there were 61 projects conducted by PA 
Family Literacy sites. Topics ranged from increasing enrollment or 
retention hours, implementing scientifically-based reading research 
in the adult classroom, improving children's oral receptive 
vocabulary, to increasing referrals from partners. In the spring we 
hosted regional poster shows where programs showcased their projects 
and results. Each program also submitted a monograph that detailed 
their question and background to it (the data), the interventions, 
data sources, results, reflections, and implications for the field.

Monographs can be found at our website 
www.pafamilyliteracy.org.  Left side, click on SEQUAL project, then
Monographs.

The website also includes the PAR handbook that helped the programs 
identify a problem based on data, intervention,  choose best data sources,
etc.

I evaluated the process to ascertain practitioners' perceptions of 
the inaugural year of the intentional, systematic PAR process. While 
it added a layer of work, most felt that it empowered them as 
practitioners and gave their program "teeth." What was also important

is that this allowed them to show highlights of their program and 
program improvement that mere data do not always capture (e.g. data 
reported to the state and feds.) Programs used data to inform their 
question and chart their success. Analyzing and reflecting on the 
data made it more than mere numbers. This evaluation report is also 
on the website. It includes a summary of the outcomes from the 
projects and the perceptions of the participants on the research process.

Drucie Weirauch
Penn State University
Goodling Institute for Research in Family Literacy

-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to cathayreta at sbcglobal.net
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From belinda.omenitsch at dc.gov  Wed Dec 10 13:55:19 2008
From: belinda.omenitsch at dc.gov (Omenitsch, Belinda (ES))
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:55:19 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1500] Re: Getting staff used to using data
References: <20081210133605.9BA2811B26@mail.nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <6F05F6E90C3F59488414B4E8E64564CA098F01@dcps-exch2k3-14.hq.dc_schools.k12.dc.us>

Resources that have been helpful to us are the books Datawise and the Power of Protocols.  We were able to collaboratively come up with a data cycle that we could use by using one of the protocols from Data Wise
Belinda Omenitsch

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Lori Keefer
Sent: Wed 12/10/2008 8:35 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1494] Getting staff used to using data



Having staff have buy-in to looking at and using data can be a challenge but
if programs make the effort to make this a part of what they do, it will
become institutionalized over time.
One way to begin to look at data is to bring some data to a staff meeting.
Do an activity where everyone gets a chance to look at the data and see what
stands out to them.  Then go around the room and let each person say what
stands out.  (Include ALL staff in this- teachers, administrators, support
personnel, volunteers).  Make a list of the things that stand out and then
have a discussion about the different things.  It could be that people
notice something really good or maybe an area of needed improvement. 
We do this with our year end data every year.  We look at enrollment,
retention, gains, goals achieved, demographics, numbers of ABE/GED/ESL
students, inquiries, and more.  We usually find a few things to focus on for
the next program year from this activity.  Some of our best ideas for
program improvement have come from our receptionist and office manager, as
they were looking at the data from a different perspective.

We also started adding looking at data to all of our meetings.  We choose an
area to look at and examine (this is done in our monthly program improvement
meetings, teacher meetings, and other sub-groups of our staff's meetings).
We always try to look at data before making program changes (if the data is
available).  Teachers eventually have gotten used to looking at the data and
seeing how it can inform their practice. They are more aware of their
students' attendance and testing information and can be more helpful in
helping the agency to make standards.

If your staff are not used to looking at data, start small but keep it
consistent.  Make it a habit and eventually it will be part of what they do.

We do have great systems in PA where using data is something that is
required at the state level.  Our program improvement plans that are
required for state funding must be built on data analysis.  We have many
teachers and administrators that do practitioner research.  However, this
doesn't mean that using data for program improvement is always easy.  It is
time consuming but without it we are making decisions based on intuition or
hunches, which can have disastrous results.  Change is sometimes
uncomfortable but all staff can see the value of using data once they learn
how to look at it and how it can better inform their practice.

********************************************
Lori Keefer
Program Director
Greater Pittsburgh Literacy Council
100 Sheridan Square 4th floor
Pittsburgh PA 15206
412.661.7323 ext 131
fax: 412.661.3040
lkeefer at gplc.org
www.gplc.org

This email is intended solely for the use of the named addressees and is not
meant for general distribution. If you are not the intended recipient,
please report the error to the originator and delete the contents.

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of David Rosen
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:57 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1494] Re: Using Data

Drucie and others,

Earlier in this discussion I asked for specific examples (narratives) 
of teachers systematically using program data to answer their 
questions. In the SEQUEL Monographs that you suggested we look at, 
found at

http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org/pafamilyliteracy/cwp/view.asp?
a=223&Q=145708&PM=1

I see several good examples in these monographs. Thank you for 
calling them to our attention. I would like to mention one, in 
particular, the Seneca Highlands Intermediate Unit 9-"Cooperative 
Learning in Adult Education to Improve Attitudes and Skills in Math" .

One of the biggest challenges our field faces is that very, very few 
(I think under 4%) of those in adult secondary education who say they 
want to go to college actually complete a degree. There are many 
reasons for this, but one of the biggest is that they cannot pass 
(usually required) college algebra.  This is because they did not get 
(positive)  exposure to algebra either in school or in an adult 
literacy education program. It is also because -- even if algebra is 
offered in their ASE program -- many have negative attitudes about, 
or fear of, learning algebra.  This study, carried out by program 
practitioners, looks at the use of cooperative learning as a strategy 
to help students overcome negative attitudes and increase knowledge 
of algebra during an eight-week program. The monograph is short, well-
written, easy to read, and has some findings worth getting excited 
about. It would be great if there were other programs, where teachers 
care about this problem, that could replicate it. I wonder if any 
programs in Pennsylvania have already done that.

It would be terrific if there were a U.S. national adult literacy 
research institute (such as NCSALL was) that would make funds 
available to support programs replicating important studies such as 
this, to help build a body of professional wisdom on the use of 
cooperative learning in adult numeracy and mathematics. This might 
provide a sufficient base of evidence to see if it is worthwhile 
later to do "gold standard" experimental research.

Thanks, Drucie, and other leaders at all levels in Pennsylvania, who 
have for many years now supported programs using data for program 
decision-making. It looks like this may be paying off for 
Pennsylvania practitioners, as they learn what does and doesn't work 
for their students, and it is contributing to a literature of 
professional wisdom* so necessary in our field.

David J. Rosen
djrosen at theworld.com

* For a dialogue about professional wisdom (including a definition) 
with John Comings, former Director of the U.S. National Center for 
the Study of Adult learning and Literacy,  see: http:// <http:///> 
wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Professional_Wisdom




On Dec 9, 2008, at 11:23 AM, Drucilla Weirauch wrote:

> In Pennsylvania we have a statewide program improvement initiative
> that uses a specific Practitioner Action Research (PAR) model. Each
> program chooses its own area of inquiry, based on its data. These
> data may be hard data (scores, hours, enrollment numbers, etc.) or
> other data, based on our Indicators of Program Quality (for example,
> the quality of the adult education classroom environment or depth of
> partnerships). Last year, there were 61 projects conducted by PA
> Family Literacy sites. Topics ranged from increasing enrollment or
> retention hours, implementing scientifically-based reading research
> in the adult classroom, improving children's oral receptive
> vocabulary, to increasing referrals from partners. In the spring we
> hosted regional poster shows where programs showcased their projects
> and results. Each program also submitted a monograph that detailed
> their question and background to it (the data), the interventions,
> data sources, results, reflections, and implications for the field.
>
> Monographs can be found at our website
> www.pafamilyliteracy.org.  Left side, click on SEQUAL project, then 
> Monographs.
>
> The website also includes the PAR handbook that helped the programs
> identify a problem based on data, intervention,  choose best data 
> sources, etc.
>
> I evaluated the process to ascertain practitioners' perceptions of
> the inaugural year of the intentional, systematic PAR process. While
> it added a layer of work, most felt that it empowered them as
> practitioners and gave their program "teeth." What was also important
> is that this allowed them to show highlights of their program and
> program improvement that mere data do not always capture (e.g. data
> reported to the state and feds.) Programs used data to inform their
> question and chart their success. Analyzing and reflecting on the
> data made it more than mere numbers. This evaluation report is also
> on the website. It includes a summary of the outcomes from the
> projects and the perceptions of the participants on the research 
> process.
>
> Drucie Weirauch
> Penn State University
> Goodling Institute for Research in Family Literacy
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to djrosen at theworld.com






-------------------------------
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Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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-------------------------------
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From copsey at allencc.edu  Wed Dec 10 14:45:53 2008
From: copsey at allencc.edu (Vivian Copsey)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:45:53 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1501] Re: [BULK]    Getting staff used to using data
In-Reply-To: <20081210133605.9BA2811B26@mail.nifl.gov>
References: <B4D23A97-F33C-452A-B28A-40D930A86473@theworld.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20081210130658.0324cb80@allencc.edu>

I agree wholeheartedly with your approach to reviewing data. In Kansas, we 
are required to meet certain indicators of a quality adult education 
program in order to receive funding. Our instructional staff realizes our 
data reflects our progress toward these measures. We have an excellent 
database used by all AEFLA funded programs across the State. The database 
is available for review by the staff at the Kansas Board of Regents and by 
any member of our staff. A representative for the adult education program 
does a yearly on-site visit  to review files for accuracy.

I am the only one who enters data. Any incorrect data becomes my 
responsibility. At our monthly staff meetings, all data is compared to the 
student's file for accuracy. Because we a very small, rural program (118 
participants with 12 hours or more in fiscal year 2008), I am able to 
continually review data on a weekly basis. Reports are printed out weekly 
and compared with what goals we projected, building from previous years.

Our staff meetings consist of two full time instructors, one part time 
instructor, one part time administrative staff and one full time 
administrative staff. Because we work very closely as a team, we look at 
the data for the whole program. If there are deficits in any area, we began 
to look at ways for improvement. Staff members are helpful to one another 
in giving suggestions.

Overall, when our staff members receive a report, they are very interested 
in our outcomes. Sometimes there is no awareness of progress or lack of 
progress until it is seen on paper. The results don't carry any negative 
connotations but a desire for improvement.

Vivian Copsey
Coordinator Adult Education
Allen Community College
1801 N. Cottonwood
Iola, KS 66749
620.365.5116 x250

At 08:35 AM 12/10/2008 -0500, you wrote:
>Having staff have buy-in to looking at and using data can be a challenge but
>if programs make the effort to make this a part of what they do, it will
>become institutionalized over time.
>One way to begin to look at data is to bring some data to a staff meeting.
>Do an activity where everyone gets a chance to look at the data and see what
>stands out to them.  Then go around the room and let each person say what
>stands out.  (Include ALL staff in this- teachers, administrators, support
>personnel, volunteers).  Make a list of the things that stand out and then
>have a discussion about the different things.  It could be that people
>notice something really good or maybe an area of needed improvement.
>We do this with our year end data every year.  We look at enrollment,
>retention, gains, goals achieved, demographics, numbers of ABE/GED/ESL
>students, inquiries, and more.  We usually find a few things to focus on for
>the next program year from this activity.  Some of our best ideas for
>program improvement have come from our receptionist and office manager, as
>they were looking at the data from a different perspective.
>
>We also started adding looking at data to all of our meetings.  We choose an
>area to look at and examine (this is done in our monthly program improvement
>meetings, teacher meetings, and other sub-groups of our staff's meetings).
>We always try to look at data before making program changes (if the data is
>available).  Teachers eventually have gotten used to looking at the data and
>seeing how it can inform their practice. They are more aware of their
>students' attendance and testing information and can be more helpful in
>helping the agency to make standards.
>
>If your staff are not used to looking at data, start small but keep it
>consistent.  Make it a habit and eventually it will be part of what they do.
>
>We do have great systems in PA where using data is something that is
>required at the state level.  Our program improvement plans that are
>required for state funding must be built on data analysis.  We have many
>teachers and administrators that do practitioner research.  However, this
>doesn't mean that using data for program improvement is always easy.  It is
>time consuming but without it we are making decisions based on intuition or
>hunches, which can have disastrous results.  Change is sometimes
>uncomfortable but all staff can see the value of using data once they learn
>how to look at it and how it can better inform their practice.
>
>********************************************
>Lori Keefer
>Program Director
>Greater Pittsburgh Literacy Council
>100 Sheridan Square 4th floor
>Pittsburgh PA 15206
>412.661.7323 ext 131
>fax: 412.661.3040
>lkeefer at gplc.org
>www.gplc.org
>
>This email is intended solely for the use of the named addressees and is not
>meant for general distribution. If you are not the intended recipient,
>please report the error to the originator and delete the contents.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
>Behalf Of David Rosen
>Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:57 AM
>To: The Assessment Discussion List
>Subject: [Assessment 1494] Re: Using Data
>
>Drucie and others,
>
>Earlier in this discussion I asked for specific examples (narratives)
>of teachers systematically using program data to answer their
>questions. In the SEQUEL Monographs that you suggested we look at,
>found at
>
>http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org/pafamilyliteracy/cwp/view.asp?
>a=223&Q=145708&PM=1
>
>I see several good examples in these monographs. Thank you for
>calling them to our attention. I would like to mention one, in
>particular, the Seneca Highlands Intermediate Unit 9-"Cooperative
>Learning in Adult Education to Improve Attitudes and Skills in Math" .
>
>One of the biggest challenges our field faces is that very, very few
>(I think under 4%) of those in adult secondary education who say they
>want to go to college actually complete a degree. There are many
>reasons for this, but one of the biggest is that they cannot pass
>(usually required) college algebra.  This is because they did not get
>(positive)  exposure to algebra either in school or in an adult
>literacy education program. It is also because -- even if algebra is
>offered in their ASE program -- many have negative attitudes about,
>or fear of, learning algebra.  This study, carried out by program
>practitioners, looks at the use of cooperative learning as a strategy
>to help students overcome negative attitudes and increase knowledge
>of algebra during an eight-week program. The monograph is short, well-
>written, easy to read, and has some findings worth getting excited
>about. It would be great if there were other programs, where teachers
>care about this problem, that could replicate it. I wonder if any
>programs in Pennsylvania have already done that.
>
>It would be terrific if there were a U.S. national adult literacy
>research institute (such as NCSALL was) that would make funds
>available to support programs replicating important studies such as
>this, to help build a body of professional wisdom on the use of
>cooperative learning in adult numeracy and mathematics. This might
>provide a sufficient base of evidence to see if it is worthwhile
>later to do "gold standard" experimental research.
>
>Thanks, Drucie, and other leaders at all levels in Pennsylvania, who
>have for many years now supported programs using data for program
>decision-making. It looks like this may be paying off for
>Pennsylvania practitioners, as they learn what does and doesn't work
>for their students, and it is contributing to a literature of
>professional wisdom* so necessary in our field.
>
>David J. Rosen
>djrosen at theworld.com
>
>* For a dialogue about professional wisdom (including a definition)
>with John Comings, former Director of the U.S. National Center for
>the Study of Adult learning and Literacy,  see: http://
>wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Professional_Wisdom
>
>
>
>
>On Dec 9, 2008, at 11:23 AM, Drucilla Weirauch wrote:
>
> > In Pennsylvania we have a statewide program improvement initiative
> > that uses a specific Practitioner Action Research (PAR) model. Each
> > program chooses its own area of inquiry, based on its data. These
> > data may be hard data (scores, hours, enrollment numbers, etc.) or
> > other data, based on our Indicators of Program Quality (for example,
> > the quality of the adult education classroom environment or depth of
> > partnerships). Last year, there were 61 projects conducted by PA
> > Family Literacy sites. Topics ranged from increasing enrollment or
> > retention hours, implementing scientifically-based reading research
> > in the adult classroom, improving children's oral receptive
> > vocabulary, to increasing referrals from partners. In the spring we
> > hosted regional poster shows where programs showcased their projects
> > and results. Each program also submitted a monograph that detailed
> > their question and background to it (the data), the interventions,
> > data sources, results, reflections, and implications for the field.
> >
> > Monographs can be found at our website
> > www.pafamilyliteracy.org.  Left side, click on SEQUAL project, then
> > Monographs.
> >
> > The website also includes the PAR handbook that helped the programs
> > identify a problem based on data, intervention,  choose best data
> > sources, etc.
> >
> > I evaluated the process to ascertain practitioners' perceptions of
> > the inaugural year of the intentional, systematic PAR process. While
> > it added a layer of work, most felt that it empowered them as
> > practitioners and gave their program "teeth." What was also important
> > is that this allowed them to show highlights of their program and
> > program improvement that mere data do not always capture (e.g. data
> > reported to the state and feds.) Programs used data to inform their
> > question and chart their success. Analyzing and reflecting on the
> > data made it more than mere numbers. This evaluation report is also
> > on the website. It includes a summary of the outcomes from the
> > projects and the perceptions of the participants on the research
> > process.
> >
> > Drucie Weirauch
> > Penn State University
> > Goodling Institute for Research in Family Literacy
> >
> > -------------------------------
> > National Institute for Literacy
> > Assessment mailing list
> > Assessment at nifl.gov
> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> > Email delivered to djrosen at theworld.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-------------------------------
>National Institute for Literacy
>Assessment mailing list
>Assessment at nifl.gov
>To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>Email delivered to lkeefer at gplc.org
>
>
>-------------------------------
>National Institute for Literacy
>Assessment mailing list
>Assessment at nifl.gov
>To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
>http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>Email delivered to copsey at allencc.edu



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From dcw113 at psu.edu  Wed Dec 10 14:45:00 2008
From: dcw113 at psu.edu (Drucilla Weirauch)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:45:00 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1502] Re: Using Data
In-Reply-To: <B4D23A97-F33C-452A-B28A-40D930A86473@theworld.com>
References: <1dd5701e0812080946g661ee5e0k2b6826a2d2aa0d99@mail.gmail.com>
	<03a001c9598b$dd63c800$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
	<200812091623.mB9GNPr6229682@f05n03.cac.psu.edu>
	<B4D23A97-F33C-452A-B28A-40D930A86473@theworld.com>
Message-ID: <200812101945.mBAJj0sm064436@f04n07.cac.psu.edu>

David,
Thanks for the positive feedback. The Seneca 
Highlands project was one of our most successful 
and most "researchy," with implications for the 
field at large. We encouraged Pennsylvania family 
literacy programs to look at the 2007-2008 
projects and replicate or adapt a chosen one for 
2008-2009 with the intent of building a 
foundation of knowledge -- at the LOCAL level. A 
WERC program this year is doing a math project, 
also using cooperative learning. Unlike the 
algebra studentsat Seneca Highlands, these 
students have low level math skills (just 
learning to tell time, count by fives, etc.). 
Yet, due to the interventions, the students are 
having high levels of success in terms of math 
skills and self-efficacy. As the research shows, 
as confidence improves, so do competencies. The 
students are PROUD to be part of the research 
study --- something that action research 
encourages and that experimental studies do not.

I rather like the idea of a national support for such efforts!!
Drucie


>Drucie and others,
>
>Earlier in this discussion I asked for specific examples (narratives)
>of teachers systematically using program data to answer their
>questions. In the SEQUEL Monographs that you suggested we look at,
>found at
>
>http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org/pafamilyliteracy/cwp/view.asp?
>a=223&Q=145708&PM=1
>
>I see several good examples in these monographs. Thank you for
>calling them to our attention. I would like to mention one, in
>particular, the Seneca Highlands Intermediate Unit 9??Cooperative
>Learning in Adult Education to Improve Attitudes and Skills in Math? .
>
>One of the biggest challenges our field faces is that very, very few
>(I think under 4%) of those in adult secondary education who say they
>want to go to college actually complete a degree. There are many
>reasons for this, but one of the biggest is that they cannot pass
>(usually required) college algebra.  This is because they did not get
>(positive)  exposure to algebra either in school or in an adult
>literacy education program. It is also because -- even if algebra is
>offered in their ASE program -- many have negative attitudes about,
>or fear of, learning algebra.  This study, carried out by program
>practitioners, looks at the use of cooperative learning as a strategy
>to help students overcome negative attitudes and increase knowledge
>of algebra during an eight-week program. The monograph is short, well-
>written, easy to read, and has some findings worth getting excited
>about. It would be great if there were other programs, where teachers
>care about this problem, that could replicate it. I wonder if any
>programs in Pennsylvania have already done that.
>
>It would be terrific if there were a U.S. national adult literacy
>research institute (such as NCSALL was) that would make funds
>available to support programs replicating important studies such as
>this, to help build a body of professional wisdom on the use of
>cooperative learning in adult numeracy and mathematics. This might
>provide a sufficient base of evidence to see if it is worthwhile
>later to do "gold standard" experimental research.
>
>Thanks, Drucie, and other leaders at all levels in Pennsylvania, who
>have for many years now supported programs using data for program
>decision-making. It looks like this may be paying off for
>Pennsylvania practitioners, as they learn what does and doesn't work
>for their students, and it is contributing to a literature of
>professional wisdom* so necessary in our field.
>
>David J. Rosen
>djrosen at theworld.com
>
>* For a dialogue about professional wisdom (including a definition)
>with John Comings, former Director of the U.S. National Center for
>the Study of Adult learning and Literacy,  see: http://
>wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Professional_Wisdom
>
>
>
>
>On Dec 9, 2008, at 11:23 AM, Drucilla Weirauch wrote:
>
> > In Pennsylvania we have a statewide program improvement initiative
> > that uses a specific Practitioner Action Research (PAR) model. Each
> > program chooses its own area of inquiry, based on its data. These
> > data may be hard data (scores, hours, enrollment numbers, etc.) or
> > other data, based on our Indicators of Program Quality (for example,
> > the quality of the adult education classroom environment or depth of
> > partnerships). Last year, there were 61 projects conducted by PA
> > Family Literacy sites. Topics ranged from increasing enrollment or
> > retention hours, implementing scientifically-based reading research
> > in the adult classroom, improving children's oral receptive
> > vocabulary, to increasing referrals from partners. In the spring we
> > hosted regional poster shows where programs showcased their projects
> > and results. Each program also submitted a monograph that detailed
> > their question and background to it (the data), the interventions,
> > data sources, results, reflections, and implications for the field.
> >
> > Monographs can be found at our website
> > www.pafamilyliteracy.org.  Left side, click on SEQUAL project, then
> > Monographs.
> >
> > The website also includes the PAR handbook that helped the programs
> > identify a problem based on data, intervention,  choose best data
> > sources, etc.
> >
> > I evaluated the process to ascertain practitioners' perceptions of
> > the inaugural year of the intentional, systematic PAR process. While
> > it added a layer of work, most felt that it empowered them as
> > practitioners and gave their program "teeth." What was also important
> > is that this allowed them to show highlights of their program and
> > program improvement that mere data do not always capture (e.g. data
> > reported to the state and feds.) Programs used data to inform their
> > question and chart their success. Analyzing and reflecting on the
> > data made it more than mere numbers. This evaluation report is also
> > on the website. It includes a summary of the outcomes from the
> > projects and the perceptions of the participants on the research
> > process.
> >
> > Drucie Weirauch
> > Penn State University
> > Goodling Institute for Research in Family Literacy
> >
> > -------------------------------
> > National Institute for Literacy
> > Assessment mailing list
> > Assessment at nifl.gov
> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> > Email delivered to djrosen at theworld.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-------------------------------
>National Institute for Literacy
>Assessment mailing list
>Assessment at nifl.gov
>To unsubscribe or change your subscription 
>settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
>Email delivered to dcw113 at psu.edu


From cathayreta at sbcglobal.net  Wed Dec 10 17:28:42 2008
From: cathayreta at sbcglobal.net (Cathay Reta)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:28:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Assessment 1503] Re: [BULK]    Getting staff used to using data
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20081210130658.0324cb80@allencc.edu>
Message-ID: <316787.94374.qm@web82706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello,
?
As someone previously mentioned, I think it is helpful to see that data is more than numbers.? It also includes information drawn from surveys, focus groups, interviews, etc.? I am reminded of Project Learn in Akron, Ohio.??Their reports showed that
?
?"Students functioning between the 5.0 and 8.9 grade level equivalent attended for an average of 35 hours for the program year while literacy students averaged 55 hours, GED students averaged 42 hours, and ESOL students averaged 65 hours."? 
?
So they gathered more data by talking with students in the?pre-GED level?and found that they did not feel?comfortable going from their student?orientation into a classroom where the instructor and students already knew each other.? Based on that, they re-arranged class schedules to give instructors a half hour to meet with new students before the start of class.?? That made a difference evidenced by the next year's report --?the average hours of attendance for those students increased to 52 hours.? 
?
I think examples like this are what make me excited about "data."
?
I'm wondering if anyone has other examples to share, or questions about what type of data to review to address specific concerns.? Anyone??
?
Cathay
?


Cathay O. Reta
Cornerstone Concepts
6670 Southside Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90022
Ph: 323) 728-4302
cathayreta at sbcglobal.net

--- On Wed, 12/10/08, Vivian Copsey <copsey at allencc.edu> wrote:

From: Vivian Copsey <copsey at allencc.edu>
Subject: [Assessment 1501] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 11:45 AM


I agree wholeheartedly with your approach to reviewing data. In Kansas, we are required to meet certain indicators of a quality adult education program in order to receive funding. Our instructional staff realizes our data reflects our progress toward these measures. We have an excellent database used by all AEFLA funded programs across the State. The database is available for review by the staff at the Kansas Board of Regents and by any member of our staff. A representative for the adult education program does a yearly on-site visit? to review files for accuracy.

I am the only one who enters data. Any incorrect data becomes my responsibility. At our monthly staff meetings, all data is compared to the student's file for accuracy. Because we a very small, rural program (118 participants with 12 hours or more in fiscal year 2008), I am able to continually review data on a weekly basis. Reports are printed out weekly and compared with what goals we projected, building from previous years.

Our staff meetings consist of two full time instructors, one part time instructor, one part time administrative staff and one full time administrative staff. Because we work very closely as a team, we look at the data for the whole program. If there are deficits in any area, we began to look at ways for improvement. Staff members are helpful to one another in giving suggestions.

Overall, when our staff members receive a report, they are very interested in our outcomes. Sometimes there is no awareness of progress or lack of progress until it is seen on paper. The results don't carry any negative connotations but a desire for improvement.

Vivian Copsey
Coordinator Adult Education
Allen Community College
1801 N. Cottonwood
Iola, KS 66749
620.365.5116 x250

At 08:35 AM 12/10/2008 -0500, you wrote:

Having staff have buy-in to looking at and using data can be a challenge but
if programs make the effort to make this a part of what they do, it will
become institutionalized over time. 
One way to begin to look at data is to bring some data to a staff meeting.
Do an activity where everyone gets a chance to look at the data and see what
stands out to them.? Then go around the room and let each person say what
stands out.? (Include ALL staff in this- teachers, administrators, support
personnel, volunteers).? Make a list of the things that stand out and then
have a discussion about the different things.? It could be that people
notice something really good or maybe an area of needed improvement.? 
We do this with our year end data every year.? We look at enrollment,
retention, gains, goals achieved, demographics, numbers of ABE/GED/ESL
students, inquiries, and more.? We usually find a few things to focus on for
the next program year from this activity.? Some of our best ideas for
program improvement have come from our receptionist and office manager, as
they were looking at the data from a different perspective.

We also started adding looking at data to all of our meetings.? We choose an
area to look at and examine (this is done in our monthly program improvement
meetings, teacher meetings, and other sub-groups of our staff's meetings).
We always try to look at data before making program changes (if the data is
available).? Teachers eventually have gotten used to looking at the data and
seeing how it can inform their practice. They are more aware of their
students' attendance and testing information and can be more helpful in
helping the agency to make standards. 

If your staff are not used to looking at data, start small but keep it
consistent.? Make it a habit and eventually it will be part of what they do.

We do have great systems in PA where using data is something that is
required at the state level.? Our program improvement plans that are
required for state funding must be built on data analysis.? We have many
teachers and administrators that do practitioner research.? However, this
doesn't mean that using data for program improvement is always easy.? It is
time consuming but without it we are making decisions based on intuition or
hunches, which can have disastrous results.? Change is sometimes
uncomfortable but all staff can see the value of using data once they learn
how to look at it and how it can better inform their practice.

********************************************
Lori Keefer
Program Director
Greater Pittsburgh Literacy Council
100 Sheridan Square 4th floor
Pittsburgh PA 15206
412.661.7323 ext 131
fax: 412.661.3040
lkeefer at gplc.org
www.gplc.org
?
This email is intended solely for the use of the named addressees and is not
meant for general distribution. If you are not the intended recipient,
please report the error to the originator and delete the contents.
?
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of David Rosen
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:57 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1494] Re: Using Data

Drucie and others,

Earlier in this discussion I asked for specific examples (narratives)? 
of teachers systematically using program data to answer their? 
questions. In the SEQUEL Monographs that you suggested we look at,? 
found at

http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org/pafamilyliteracy/cwp/view.asp? 
a=223&Q=145708&PM=1

I see several good examples in these monographs. Thank you for? 
calling them to our attention. I would like to mention one, in? 
particular, the Seneca Highlands Intermediate Unit 9-"Cooperative? 
Learning in Adult Education to Improve Attitudes and Skills in Math" .

One of the biggest challenges our field faces is that very, very few? 
(I think under 4%) of those in adult secondary education who say they? 
want to go to college actually complete a degree. There are many? 
reasons for this, but one of the biggest is that they cannot pass? 
(usually required) college algebra.? This is because they did not get? 
(positive)? exposure to algebra either in school or in an adult? 
literacy education program. It is also because -- even if algebra is? 
offered in their ASE program -- many have negative attitudes about,? 
or fear of, learning algebra.? This study, carried out by program? 
practitioners, looks at the use of cooperative learning as a strategy? 
to help students overcome negative attitudes and increase knowledge? 
of algebra during an eight-week program. The monograph is short, well- 
written, easy to read, and has some findings worth getting excited? 
about. It would be great if there were other programs, where teachers? 
care about this problem, that could replicate it. I wonder if any? 
programs in Pennsylvania have already done that.

It would be terrific if there were a U.S. national adult literacy? 
research institute (such as NCSALL was) that would make funds? 
available to support programs replicating important studies such as? 
this, to help build a body of professional wisdom on the use of? 
cooperative learning in adult numeracy and mathematics. This might? 
provide a sufficient base of evidence to see if it is worthwhile? 
later to do "gold standard" experimental research.

Thanks, Drucie, and other leaders at all levels in Pennsylvania, who? 
have for many years now supported programs using data for program? 
decision-making. It looks like this may be paying off for? 
Pennsylvania practitioners, as they learn what does and doesn't work? 
for their students, and it is contributing to a literature of? 
professional wisdom* so necessary in our field.

David J. Rosen
djrosen at theworld.com

* For a dialogue about professional wisdom (including a definition)? 
with John Comings, former Director of the U.S. National Center for? 
the Study of Adult learning and Literacy,? see: http:// 
wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Professional_Wisdom




On Dec 9, 2008, at 11:23 AM, Drucilla Weirauch wrote:

> In Pennsylvania we have a statewide program improvement initiative
> that uses a specific Practitioner Action Research (PAR) model. Each
> program chooses its own area of inquiry, based on its data. These
> data may be hard data (scores, hours, enrollment numbers, etc.) or
> other data, based on our Indicators of Program Quality (for example,
> the quality of the adult education classroom environment or depth of
> partnerships). Last year, there were 61 projects conducted by PA
> Family Literacy sites. Topics ranged from increasing enrollment or
> retention hours, implementing scientifically-based reading research
> in the adult classroom, improving children's oral receptive
> vocabulary, to increasing referrals from partners. In the spring we
> hosted regional poster shows where programs showcased their projects
> and results. Each program also submitted a monograph that detailed
> their question and background to it (the data), the interventions,
> data sources, results, reflections, and implications for the field.
>
> Monographs can be found at our website
> www.pafamilyliteracy.org. Left side, click on SEQUAL project, then? 
> Monographs.
>
> The website also includes the PAR handbook that helped the programs
> identify a problem based on data, intervention,? choose best data? 
> sources, etc.
>
> I evaluated the process to ascertain practitioners' perceptions of
> the inaugural year of the intentional, systematic PAR process. While
> it added a layer of work, most felt that it empowered them as
> practitioners and gave their program "teeth." What was also important
> is that this allowed them to show highlights of their program and
> program improvement that mere data do not always capture (e.g. data
> reported to the state and feds.) Programs used data to inform their
> question and chart their success. Analyzing and reflecting on the
> data made it more than mere numbers. This evaluation report is also
> on the website. It includes a summary of the outcomes from the
> projects and the perceptions of the participants on the research? 
> process.
>
> Drucie Weirauch
> Penn State University
> Goodling Institute for Research in Family Literacy
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to? 
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to djrosen at theworld.com






-------------------------------
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Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to lkeefer at gplc.org


-------------------------------
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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to copsey at allencc.edu


-------------------------------
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From dcole at hawthorne.k12.ca.us  Wed Dec 10 18:21:14 2008
From: dcole at hawthorne.k12.ca.us (Cole, Donielle)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:21:14 -0800
Subject: [Assessment 1504] Re: Using Data:  Getting Staff Buy-In
In-Reply-To: <023f01c9593b$c1500840$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
References: <023f01c9593b$c1500840$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <80A382CABD54DC4EB76223315E5D7E17056B16E6@mail3.District.com>

Buy in from all stakeholders is very important.  Administrators are
often responsible for sharing data with funders, staff, students and
board members.  What teachers are doing in their classrooms is what
leads to the student's production of the outcomes that are reflected in
your data.  It is a continuum that everyone is involved in.  When
getting staff buy in it is important to identify and articulate the
reason you want them to focus on using data.  Initially it may be the
reality that we face in education that it is often tied to program
funding decisions and resources.  Further inquiry will eventually lead
to the discovery of how the use of data can inform practice and impact
continuous quality improvement.  In getting started it is important to
meet your staff where they are at.  Are they ready for this change?
What are their fears?  What do they hope to gain?  A big part of making
this happen is viewing it as an investment.  As an administrator you
have to invest resources so that your staff will be invested in the use
of data.  Do they need release time for data collection and time to
discuss data with colleagues?  Do they need extra paid hours for data
collection?  Do they need training on how to collect and interpret data?

 

Here are some preliminary questions to assess the readiness of your
staff to begin using data for program improvement.

1.	How do you feel about the use of data to inform program
decisions?
2.	What benefits do you anticipate with a bigger focus on using
data?
3.	What challenges do you anticipate?
4.	What resources or support do you need to facilitate an increased
focus on data?

 

If you need to lay some groundwork to move your staff into the use of
data for program improvement, start with something small and gradually
narrow your focus.  Our program has weekly articulation meetings in
which we discuss what is going on in the program.  Looking at attendance
and assessment data, as well as feedback from program staff are regular
parts of these meetings.  Over time looking at data became a part of our
program culture.  It has lead to better outcomes for our students and
our teachers feel it has helped them to be able to target needs for
students and families.

 

Donielle Cole

Hawthorne Family Literacy Program

 

 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:49 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1473] Using Data: Getting Staff Buy-In

 

A subscriber sent:

How do you get staff to buy-in to a bigger focus on using data?  My
staff really see this as an extra layer of effort and work at this
point.  It's hard to get them to see that some initial work on this will
eventually lead to better teaching and programming.  Thanks. 

 

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu  Wed Dec 10 19:00:21 2008
From: barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu (Barbara Jacala)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:00:21 +1000
Subject: [Assessment 1505] Re: [BULK]    Getting staff used to using data
In-Reply-To: <316787.94374.qm@web82706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20081210130658.0324cb80@allencc.edu>
	<316787.94374.qm@web82706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <18F4DC755DD84FDEA51CBF74540B558F@DeptUserName>

Hello. I am a latecomer to this discussion and I hope not too late to get
feedback from experienced practitioners. I am the program specialist for
adult education at Guam Community College. The difficulty we encounter is in
raising the level of our paired tests (pre and post). I am getting only
about 60%. Is this average for this population? How are others encouraging
students to take the post before leaving? Or how are they making sure that
everyone is post tested? What strategies have you put in place?

 

Barbara Jacala

Guam Community College

Adult Education Program Specialist

POB 23069 GMF, GU 96931

671-735-5584

barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Cathay Reta
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:29 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1503] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data

 


Hello,

 

As someone previously mentioned, I think it is helpful to see that data is
more than numbers.  It also includes information drawn from surveys, focus
groups, interviews, etc.  I am reminded of Project Learn in Akron, Ohio.
Their reports showed that

 

 "Students functioning between the 5.0 and 8.9 grade level equivalent
attended for an average of 35 hours for the program year while literacy
students averaged 55 hours, GED students averaged 42 hours, and ESOL
students averaged 65 hours."  

 

So they gathered more data by talking with students in the pre-GED level and
found that they did not feel comfortable going from their student
orientation into a classroom where the instructor and students already knew
each other.  Based on that, they re-arranged class schedules to give
instructors a half hour to meet with new students before the start of class.
That made a difference evidenced by the next year's report -- the average
hours of attendance for those students increased to 52 hours.  

 

I think examples like this are what make me excited about "data."

 

I'm wondering if anyone has other examples to share, or questions about what
type of data to review to address specific concerns.  Anyone??

 

Cathay

 



Cathay O. Reta
Cornerstone Concepts
6670 Southside Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90022
Ph: 323) 728-4302
cathayreta at sbcglobal.net

--- On Wed, 12/10/08, Vivian Copsey <copsey at allencc.edu> wrote:

From: Vivian Copsey <copsey at allencc.edu>
Subject: [Assessment 1501] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 11:45 AM

I agree wholeheartedly with your approach to reviewing data. In Kansas, we
are required to meet certain indicators of a quality adult education program
in order to receive funding. Our instructional staff realizes our data
reflects our progress toward these measures. We have an excellent database
used by all AEFLA funded programs across the State. The database is
available for review by the staff at the Kansas Board of Regents and by any
member of our staff. A representative for the adult education program does a
yearly on-site visit  to review files for accuracy.

I am the only one who enters data. Any incorrect data becomes my
responsibility. At our monthly staff meetings, all data is compared to the
student's file for accuracy. Because we a very small, rural program (118
participants with 12 hours or more in fiscal year 2008), I am able to
continually review data on a weekly basis. Reports are printed out weekly
and compared with what goals we projected, building from previous years.

Our staff meetings consist of two full time instructors, one part time
instructor, one part time administrative staff and one full time
administrative staff. Because we work very closely as a team, we look at the
data for the whole program. If there are deficits in any area, we began to
look at ways for improvement. Staff members are helpful to one another in
giving suggestions.

Overall, when our staff members receive a report, they are very interested
in our outcomes. Sometimes there is no awareness of progress or lack of
progress until it is seen on paper. The results don't carry any negative
connotations but a desire for improvement.

Vivian Copsey
Coordinator Adult Education
Allen Community College
1801 N. Cottonwood
Iola, KS 66749
620.365.5116 x250

At 08:35 AM 12/10/2008 -0500, you wrote:



Having staff have buy-in to looking at and using data can be a challenge but
if programs make the effort to make this a part of what they do, it will
become institutionalized over time. 
One way to begin to look at data is to bring some data to a staff meeting.
Do an activity where everyone gets a chance to look at the data and see what
stands out to them.  Then go around the room and let each person say what
stands out.  (Include ALL staff in this- teachers, administrators, support
personnel, volunteers).  Make a list of the things that stand out and then
have a discussion about the different things.  It could be that people
notice something really good or maybe an area of needed improvement.  
We do this with our year end data every year.  We look at enrollment,
retention, gains, goals achieved, demographics, numbers of ABE/GED/ESL
students, inquiries, and more.  We usually find a few things to focus on for
the next program year from this activity.  Some of our best ideas for
program improvement have come from our receptionist and office manager, as
they were looking at the data from a different perspective.

We also started adding looking at data to all of our meetings.  We choose an
area to look at and examine (this is done in our monthly program improvement
meetings, teacher meetings, and other sub-groups of our staff's meetings).
We always try to look at data before making program changes (if the data is
available).  Teachers eventually have gotten used to looking at the data and
seeing how it can inform their practice. They are more aware of their
students' attendance and testing information and can be more helpful in
helping the agency to make standards. 

If your staff are not used to looking at data, start small but keep it
consistent.  Make it a habit and eventually it will be part of what they do.

We do have great systems in PA where using data is something that is
required at the state level.  Our program improvement plans that are
required for state funding must be built on data analysis.  We have many
teachers and administrators that do practitioner research.  However, this
doesn't mean that using data for program improvement is always easy.  It is
time consuming but without it we are making decisions based on intuition or
hunches, which can have disastrous results.  Change is sometimes
uncomfortable but all staff can see the value of using data once they learn
how to look at it and how it can better inform their practice.

********************************************
Lori Keefer
Program Director
Greater Pittsburgh Literacy Council
100 Sheridan Square 4th floor
Pittsburgh PA 15206
412.661.7323 ext 131
fax: 412.661.3040
lkeefer at gplc.org
www.gplc.org <http://www.gplc.org/> 
 
This email is intended solely for the use of the named addressees and is not
meant for general distribution. If you are not the intended recipient,
please report the error to the originator and delete the contents.
 
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of David Rosen
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:57 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1494] Re: Using Data

Drucie and others,

Earlier in this discussion I asked for specific examples (narratives)  
of teachers systematically using program data to answer their  
questions. In the SEQUEL Monographs that you suggested we look at,  
found at

http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org/pafamilyliteracy/cwp/view.asp? 
a=223&Q=145708&PM=1

I see several good examples in these monographs. Thank you for  
calling them to our attention. I would like to mention one, in  
particular, the Seneca Highlands Intermediate Unit 9-"Cooperative  
Learning in Adult Education to Improve Attitudes and Skills in Math" .

One of the biggest challenges our field faces is that very, very few  
(I think under 4%) of those in adult secondary education who say they  
want to go to college actually complete a degree. There are many  
reasons for this, but one of the biggest is that they cannot pass  
(usually required) college algebra.  This is because they did not get  
(positive)  exposure to algebra either in school or in an adult  
literacy education program. It is also because -- even if algebra is  
offered in their ASE program -- many have negative attitudes about,  
or fear of, learning algebra.  This study, carried out by program  
practitioners, looks at the use of cooperative learning as a strategy  
to help students overcome negative attitudes and increase knowledge  
of algebra during an eight-week program. The monograph is short, well- 
written, easy to read, and has some findings worth getting excited  
about. It would be great if there were other programs, where teachers  
care about this problem, that could replicate it. I wonder if any  
programs in Pennsylvania have already done that.

It would be terrific if there were a U.S. national adult literacy  
research institute (such as NCSALL was) that would make funds  
available to support programs replicating important studies such as  
this, to help build a body of professional wisdom on the use of  
cooperative learning in adult numeracy and mathematics. This might  
provide a sufficient base of evidence to see if it is worthwhile  
later to do "gold standard" experimental research.

Thanks, Drucie, and other leaders at all levels in Pennsylvania, who  
have for many years now supported programs using data for program  
decision-making. It looks like this may be paying off for  
Pennsylvania practitioners, as they learn what does and doesn't work  
for their students, and it is contributing to a literature of  
professional wisdom* so necessary in our field.

David J. Rosen
djrosen at theworld.com

* For a dialogue about professional wisdom (including a definition)  
with John Comings, former Director of the U.S. National Center for  
the Study of Adult learning and Literacy,  see: http:// 
wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Professional_Wisdom




On Dec 9, 2008, at 11:23 AM, Drucilla Weirauch wrote:

> In Pennsylvania we have a statewide program improvement initiative
> that uses a specific Practitioner Action Research (PAR) model. Each
> program chooses its own area of inquiry, based on its data. These
> data may be hard data (scores, hours, enrollment numbers, etc.) or
> other data, based on our Indicators of Program Quality (for example,
> the quality of the adult education classroom environment or depth of
> partnerships). Last year, there were 61 projects conducted by PA
> Family Literacy sites. Topics ranged from increasing enrollment or
> retention hours, implementing scientifically-based reading research
> in the adult classroom, improving children's oral receptive
> vocabulary, to increasing referrals from partners. In the spring we
> hosted regional poster shows where programs showcased their projects
> and results. Each program also submitted a monograph that detailed
> their question and background to it (the data), the interventions,
> data sources, results, reflections, and implications for the field.
>
> Monographs can be found at our website
> www.pafamilyliteracy.org. <http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org. />  Left side,
click on SEQUAL project, then  
> Monographs.
>
> The website also includes the PAR handbook that helped the programs
> identify a problem based on data, intervention,  choose best data  
> sources, etc.
>
> I evaluated the process to ascertain practitioners' perceptions of
> the inaugural year of the intentional, systematic PAR process. While
> it added a layer of work, most felt that it empowered them as
> practitioners and gave their program "teeth." What was also important
> is that this allowed them to show highlights of their program and
> program improvement that mere data do not always capture (e.g. data
> reported to the state and feds.) Programs used data to inform their
> question and chart their success. Analyzing and reflecting on the
> data made it more than mere numbers. This evaluation report is also
> on the website. It includes a summary of the outcomes from the
> projects and the perceptions of the participants on the research  
> process.
>
> Drucie Weirauch
> Penn State University
> Goodling Institute for Research in Family Literacy
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to djrosen at theworld.com






-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to lkeefer at gplc.org


-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to copsey at allencc.edu

 

-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to cathayreta at sbcglobal.net

 

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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Thu Dec 11 09:22:06 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:22:06 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1506]  Just joining us?
Message-ID: <06ed01c95b9b$d8ec8ed0$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi all,

 

If you are just now joining us, please visit:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/08data.html for full
information on our present discussion "Using Your Data to Improve Your
Program Services".  Please send your questions and comments to the List now.

 

You can read the discussion in a couple of ways:  

1. join us here in real time to read and/or add your voice to the
conversation; 

2. receive the daily posts in digest format so you can read them at the end
of the day (see below for instructions); 

3. read the discussion in the Assessment List archives at
http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/assessment/2008/date.html (you do not need to
be subscribed to read the daily archives)

4. read the discussion transcript once the discussion has closed - I prepare
the transcript in user-friendly format so that it can subsequently be used
in a variety of ways; I will post the transcript on the NIFL website; it
usually takes me a week or two to prepare it.

 

Any questions!?  Please don't hesitate to contact me.

 

Thanks, 

 

Marie Cora

Assessment Discussion List Moderator

marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com 

 

Digest Format

This format allows subscribers to receive Discussion List messages "bundled"
into one or two emails per day. The subject line will not be topic-specific,
so any replies to digest format often mean the subject line will need
adjusting before replying. Also, subscribers using digest format do not
receive the information that was posted right away. Because of that, this
option may or may not suit everyone's needs.

>From the Assessment Discussion List page:
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/Assessment

Scroll down to Unsubscribe and other options at the bottom and enter your
subscription email address.  

This takes you to a page where it asks you if you want to unsubscribe or to
log in using your password. Log in. (There is a button you can click to have
your password emailed to you if you've forgotten it.)

Once you've logged in, scroll down to where it reads "set digest mode".
Click this to "on", then scroll down further and click "submit my changes."

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From gdemetrion at msn.com  Thu Dec 11 09:35:11 2008
From: gdemetrion at msn.com (gdemetrion at msn.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:35:11 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1507]  what is the definition of data
In-Reply-To: <80A382CABD54DC4EB76223315E5D7E17056B16E6@mail3.District.com>
References: <023f01c9593b$c1500840$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
	<80A382CABD54DC4EB76223315E5D7E17056B16E6@mail3.District.com>
Message-ID: <BAY103-W32ABD25B94753ED220A202C5F80@phx.gbl>


Good morning all.
 
The term "data" is being used a great deal in these discussions and the posts are very informative. I do want to check in here:  What is meant by "data" and how is that distinguished, if at all, from other sources of information ort evidence bearing on how, in what contexts, what, and how rapidly students come to learn, which, depending on the definition of learning as at the least, some shift in awareness, is probably taking place more or less in all situations.
 
Best,
 
George Demetrion
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From Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org  Thu Dec 11 10:08:14 2008
From: Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org (Anderson, Philip)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:08:14 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1508] Re: [BULK]    Getting staff used to using data
In-Reply-To: <18F4DC755DD84FDEA51CBF74540B558F@DeptUserName>
Message-ID: <96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E1E24BA47@MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>

Barbara,

 

When you say you get 60%, do you mean that you get 60% of the students to take a post-test, or that you get 60% of the students to pass to a higher level when they post-test?

 

Either way, compared to the numbers we see in Florida, that is great!  We see less than 50% of the students take a post-test, and, depending on the level, we usually see about 25-30% of the total number of enrolled students that pass to a higher level.  However, when students do take a post-test, we see that about 50% of these students actually pass to a higher level.  Programs in Florida use primarily the CASAS Life and Work series for ESOL students.  The other tests that our programs use are the BEST Plus and BEST Literacy.  

 

The message we are trying to get out is that programs need to find ways to get students to stay in class long enough to post-test.  If a few more percentage points of the students would "persist" until they post-test, the data would show much higher rates of students passing to higher levels.  Programs will show much stronger results if only they can hone in on "retaining" students!

 

Florida has had several local programs begin to implement managed enrollment in their ESOL programs, and the results are astoundingly high!  Managed Enrollment (ME) programs consistently see 80-90% of students stay long enough to post-test.  And of those who post-test, 70-80% pass to a higher level. 

 

Miami Dade school district adult ESOL program did a pilot of 7 sites with ME, and showed these types of numbers.  They called the ME classes "Intensive English Academies."  Although the curriculum was the same, the length of the courses was shortened to 7-8 weeks, and after the first week the classes were closed to new students entering.  The teachers and students found they were free from the chaos of students coming and going so much, and were able to build on previous lessons better.  For more information about the ESOL Academies, visit www.floridaadultesol.org <http://www.floridaadultesol.org/> , or write to Dr. Beatriz Diaz, Adult ESOL Coordinator, at bdiaz at dadeschools.net.  

 

Phil

(850) 245-9450

________________________________

From: Barbara Jacala [mailto:barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:00 PM
To: cathayreta at sbcglobal.net; 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1505] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data

 

Hello. I am a latecomer to this discussion and I hope not too late to get feedback from experienced practitioners. I am the program specialist for adult education at Guam Community College. The difficulty we encounter is in raising the level of our paired tests (pre and post). I am getting only about 60%. Is this average for this population? How are others encouraging students to take the post before leaving? Or how are they making sure that everyone is post tested? What strategies have you put in place?

 

Barbara Jacala

Guam Community College

Adult Education Program Specialist

POB 23069 GMF, GU 96931

671-735-5584

barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu

 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Cathay Reta
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:29 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1503] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data

 

Hello,

 

As someone previously mentioned, I think it is helpful to see that data is more than numbers.  It also includes information drawn from surveys, focus groups, interviews, etc.  I am reminded of Project Learn in Akron, Ohio.  Their reports showed that

 

 "Students functioning between the 5.0 and 8.9 grade level equivalent attended for an average of 35 hours for the program year while literacy students averaged 55 hours, GED students averaged 42 hours, and ESOL students averaged 65 hours."  

 

So they gathered more data by talking with students in the pre-GED level and found that they did not feel comfortable going from their student orientation into a classroom where the instructor and students already knew each other.  Based on that, they re-arranged class schedules to give instructors a half hour to meet with new students before the start of class.   That made a difference evidenced by the next year's report -- the average hours of attendance for those students increased to 52 hours.  

 

I think examples like this are what make me excited about "data."

 

I'm wondering if anyone has other examples to share, or questions about what type of data to review to address specific concerns.  Anyone??

 

Cathay

 



Cathay O. Reta
Cornerstone Concepts
6670 Southside Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90022
Ph: 323) 728-4302
cathayreta at sbcglobal.net

--- On Wed, 12/10/08, Vivian Copsey <copsey at allencc.edu> wrote:

	From: Vivian Copsey <copsey at allencc.edu>
	Subject: [Assessment 1501] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data
	To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
	Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 11:45 AM

	I agree wholeheartedly with your approach to reviewing data. In Kansas, we are required to meet certain indicators of a quality adult education program in order to receive funding. Our instructional staff realizes our data reflects our progress toward these measures. We have an excellent database used by all AEFLA funded programs across the State. The database is available for review by the staff at the Kansas Board of Regents and by any member of our staff. A representative for the adult education program does a yearly on-site visit  to review files for accuracy.
	
	I am the only one who enters data. Any incorrect data becomes my responsibility. At our monthly staff meetings, all data is compared to the student's file for accuracy. Because we a very small, rural program (118 participants with 12 hours or more in fiscal year 2008), I am able to continually review data on a weekly basis. Reports are printed out weekly and compared with what goals we projected, building from previous years.
	
	Our staff meetings consist of two full time instructors, one part time instructor, one part time administrative staff and one full time administrative staff. Because we work very closely as a team, we look at the data for the whole program. If there are deficits in any area, we began to look at ways for improvement. Staff members are helpful to one another in giving suggestions.
	
	Overall, when our staff members receive a report, they are very interested in our outcomes. Sometimes there is no awareness of progress or lack of progress until it is seen on paper. The results don't carry any negative connotations but a desire for improvement.
	
	Vivian Copsey
	Coordinator Adult Education
	Allen Community College
	1801 N. Cottonwood
	Iola, KS 66749
	620.365.5116 x250
	
	At 08:35 AM 12/10/2008 -0500, you wrote:

	Having staff have buy-in to looking at and using data can be a challenge but
	if programs make the effort to make this a part of what they do, it will
	become institutionalized over time. 
	One way to begin to look at data is to bring some data to a staff meeting.
	Do an activity where everyone gets a chance to look at the data and see what
	stands out to them.  Then go around the room and let each person say what
	stands out.  (Include ALL staff in this- teachers, administrators, support
	personnel, volunteers).  Make a list of the things that stand out and then
	have a discussion about the different things.  It could be that people
	notice something really good or maybe an area of needed improvement.  
	We do this with our year end data every year.  We look at enrollment,
	retention, gains, goals achieved, demographics, numbers of ABE/GED/ESL
	students, inquiries, and more.  We usually find a few things to focus on for
	the next program year from this activity.  Some of our best ideas for
	program improvement have come from our receptionist and office manager, as
	they were looking at the data from a different perspective.
	
	We also started adding looking at data to all of our meetings.  We choose an
	area to look at and examine (this is done in our monthly program improvement
	meetings, teacher meetings, and other sub-groups of our staff's meetings).
	We always try to look at data before making program changes (if the data is
	available).  Teachers eventually have gotten used to looking at the data and
	seeing how it can inform their practice. They are more aware of their
	students' attendance and testing information and can be more helpful in
	helping the agency to make standards. 
	
	If your staff are not used to looking at data, start small but keep it
	consistent.  Make it a habit and eventually it will be part of what they do.
	
	We do have great systems in PA where using data is something that is
	required at the state level.  Our program improvement plans that are
	required for state funding must be built on data analysis.  We have many
	teachers and administrators that do practitioner research.  However, this
	doesn't mean that using data for program improvement is always easy.  It is
	time consuming but without it we are making decisions based on intuition or
	hunches, which can have disastrous results.  Change is sometimes
	uncomfortable but all staff can see the value of using data once they learn
	how to look at it and how it can better inform their practice.
	
	********************************************
	Lori Keefer
	Program Director
	Greater Pittsburgh Literacy Council
	100 Sheridan Square 4th floor
	Pittsburgh PA 15206
	412.661.7323 ext 131
	fax: 412.661.3040
	lkeefer at gplc.org
	www.gplc.org <http://www.gplc.org/> 
	 
	This email is intended solely for the use of the named addressees and is not
	meant for general distribution. If you are not the intended recipient,
	please report the error to the originator and delete the contents.
	 
	-----Original Message-----
	From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
	Behalf Of David Rosen
	Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:57 AM
	To: The Assessment Discussion List
	Subject: [Assessment 1494] Re: Using Data
	
	Drucie and others,
	
	Earlier in this discussion I asked for specific examples (narratives)  
	of teachers systematically using program data to answer their  
	questions. In the SEQUEL Monographs that you suggested we look at,  
	found at
	
	http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org/pafamilyliteracy/cwp/view.asp? 
	a=223&Q=145708&PM=1
	
	I see several good examples in these monographs. Thank you for  
	calling them to our attention. I would like to mention one, in  
	particular, the Seneca Highlands Intermediate Unit 9-"Cooperative  
	Learning in Adult Education to Improve Attitudes and Skills in Math" .
	
	One of the biggest challenges our field faces is that very, very few  
	(I think under 4%) of those in adult secondary education who say they  
	want to go to college actually complete a degree. There are many  
	reasons for this, but one of the biggest is that they cannot pass  
	(usually required) college algebra.  This is because they did not get  
	(positive)  exposure to algebra either in school or in an adult  
	literacy education program. It is also because -- even if algebra is  
	offered in their ASE program -- many have negative attitudes about,  
	or fear of, learning algebra.  This study, carried out by program  
	practitioners, looks at the use of cooperative learning as a strategy  
	to help students overcome negative attitudes and increase knowledge  
	of algebra during an eight-week program. The monograph is short, well- 
	written, easy to read, and has some findings worth getting excited  
	about. It would be great if there were other programs, where teachers  
	care about this problem, that could replicate it. I wonder if any  
	programs in Pennsylvania have already done that.
	
	It would be terrific if there were a U.S. national adult literacy  
	research institute (such as NCSALL was) that would make funds  
	available to support programs replicating important studies such as  
	this, to help build a body of professional wisdom on the use of  
	cooperative learning in adult numeracy and mathematics. This might  
	provide a sufficient base of evidence to see if it is worthwhile  
	later to do "gold standard" experimental research.
	
	Thanks, Drucie, and other leaders at all levels in Pennsylvania, who  
	have for many years now supported programs using data for program  
	decision-making. It looks like this may be paying off for  
	Pennsylvania practitioners, as they learn what does and doesn't work  
	for their students, and it is contributing to a literature of  
	professional wisdom* so necessary in our field.
	
	David J. Rosen
	djrosen at theworld.com
	
	* For a dialogue about professional wisdom (including a definition)  
	with John Comings, former Director of the U.S. National Center for  
	the Study of Adult learning and Literacy,  see: http:// 
	wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Professional_Wisdom
	
	
	
	
	On Dec 9, 2008, at 11:23 AM, Drucilla Weirauch wrote:
	
	> In Pennsylvania we have a statewide program improvement initiative
	> that uses a specific Practitioner Action Research (PAR) model. Each
	> program chooses its own area of inquiry, based on its data. These
	> data may be hard data (scores, hours, enrollment numbers, etc.) or
	> other data, based on our Indicators of Program Quality (for example,
	> the quality of the adult education classroom environment or depth of
	> partnerships). Last year, there were 61 projects conducted by PA
	> Family Literacy sites. Topics ranged from increasing enrollment or
	> retention hours, implementing scientifically-based reading research
	> in the adult classroom, improving children's oral receptive
	> vocabulary, to increasing referrals from partners. In the spring we
	> hosted regional poster shows where programs showcased their projects
	> and results. Each program also submitted a monograph that detailed
	> their question and background to it (the data), the interventions,
	> data sources, results, reflections, and implications for the field.
	>
	> Monographs can be found at our website
	> www.pafamilyliteracy.org. <http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org.?/> Left side, click on SEQUAL project, then  
	> Monographs.
	>
	> The website also includes the PAR handbook that helped the programs
	> identify a problem based on data, intervention,  choose best data  
	> sources, etc.
	>
	> I evaluated the process to ascertain practitioners' perceptions of
	> the inaugural year of the intentional, systematic PAR process. While
	> it added a layer of work, most felt that it empowered them as
	> practitioners and gave their program "teeth." What was also important
	> is that this allowed them to show highlights of their program and
	> program improvement that mere data do not always capture (e.g. data
	> reported to the state and feds.) Programs used data to inform their
	> question and chart their success. Analyzing and reflecting on the
	> data made it more than mere numbers. This evaluation report is also
	> on the website. It includes a summary of the outcomes from the
	> projects and the perceptions of the participants on the research  
	> process.
	>
	> Drucie Weirauch
	> Penn State University
	> Goodling Institute for Research in Family Literacy
	>
	> -------------------------------
	> National Institute for Literacy
	> Assessment mailing list
	> Assessment at nifl.gov
	> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
	> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
	> Email delivered to djrosen at theworld.com
	
	
	
	
	
	
	-------------------------------
	National Institute for Literacy
	Assessment mailing list
	Assessment at nifl.gov
	To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
	http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
	Email delivered to lkeefer at gplc.org
	
	
	-------------------------------
	National Institute for Literacy
	Assessment mailing list
	Assessment at nifl.gov
	To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
	Email delivered to copsey at allencc.edu

	 

	-------------------------------
	National Institute for Literacy
	Assessment mailing list
	Assessment at nifl.gov
	To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
	http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
	Email delivered to cathayreta at sbcglobal.net

 

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From nfaux at vcu.edu  Thu Dec 11 11:33:09 2008
From: nfaux at vcu.edu (Nancy R Faux/AC/VCU)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:33:09 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1509] Re: [BULK]    Getting staff used to using data
In-Reply-To: <96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E1E24BA47@MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>
Message-ID: <OF9CB058E2.DE3B0194-ON8525751C.005AA725-8525751C.005AE509@vcu.edu>

Phil,

Your statistics on Managed Enrollment (ME) are very encouraging.  I am 
going to save your email to use it later on when speaking with programs 
that are resistant to ME.

I also find it insightful that your courses are only 7-8 weeks.  About how 
many hours of instruction per week would there be?  Do the students have 
enough hours to qualify for a post-test?

Nancy

*********************************************************
Nancy R. Faux
ESOL Specialist
Virginia Adult Learning Resource Center
Virginia Commonwealth University
3600 W. Broad Street, Suite 669
Richmond, VA 23230-4930
nfaux at vcu.edu
http://www.valrc.org
1-800-237-0178



"Anderson, Philip" <Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org> 
Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
12/11/2008 10:31 AM
Please respond to
The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>


To
<barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu>, "The Assessment Discussion List" 
<assessment at nifl.gov>
cc

Subject
[Assessment 1508] Re: [BULK]    Getting staff used to using data






Barbara,
 
When you say you get 60%, do you mean that you get 60% of the students to 
take a post-test, or that you get 60% of the students to pass to a higher 
level when they post-test?
 
Either way, compared to the numbers we see in Florida, that is great!  We 
see less than 50% of the students take a post-test, and, depending on the 
level, we usually see about 25-30% of the total number of enrolled 
students that pass to a higher level.  However, when students do take a 
post-test, we see that about 50% of these students actually pass to a 
higher level.  Programs in Florida use primarily the CASAS Life and Work 
series for ESOL students.  The other tests that our programs use are the 
BEST Plus and BEST Literacy.  
 
The message we are trying to get out is that programs need to find ways to 
get students to stay in class long enough to post-test.  If a few more 
percentage points of the students would ?persist? until they post-test, 
the data would show much higher rates of students passing to higher 
levels.  Programs will show much stronger results if only they can hone in 
on ?retaining? students!
 
Florida has had several local programs begin to implement managed 
enrollment in their ESOL programs, and the results are astoundingly high!  
Managed Enrollment (ME) programs consistently see 80-90% of students stay 
long enough to post-test.  And of those who post-test, 70-80% pass to a 
higher level. 
 
Miami Dade school district adult ESOL program did a pilot of 7 sites with 
ME, and showed these types of numbers.  They called the ME classes 
?Intensive English Academies.?  Although the curriculum was the same, the 
length of the courses was shortened to 7-8 weeks, and after the first week 
the classes were closed to new students entering.  The teachers and 
students found they were free from the chaos of students coming and going 
so much, and were able to build on previous lessons better.  For more 
information about the ESOL Academies, visit www.floridaadultesol.org, or 
write to Dr. Beatriz Diaz, Adult ESOL Coordinator, at 
bdiaz at dadeschools.net.  
 
Phil
(850) 245-9450

From: Barbara Jacala [mailto:barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:00 PM
To: cathayreta at sbcglobal.net; 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1505] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data
 
Hello. I am a latecomer to this discussion and I hope not too late to get 
feedback from experienced practitioners. I am the program specialist for 
adult education at Guam Community College. The difficulty we encounter is 
in raising the level of our paired tests (pre and post). I am getting only 
about 60%. Is this average for this population? How are others encouraging 
students to take the post before leaving? Or how are they making sure that 
everyone is post tested? What strategies have you put in place?
 
Barbara Jacala
Guam Community College
Adult Education Program Specialist
POB 23069 GMF, GU 96931
671-735-5584
barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu
 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On 
Behalf Of Cathay Reta
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:29 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1503] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data
 

Hello,
 
As someone previously mentioned, I think it is helpful to see that data is 
more than numbers.  It also includes information drawn from surveys, focus 
groups, interviews, etc.  I am reminded of Project Learn in Akron, Ohio. 
Their reports showed that
 
 "Students functioning between the 5.0 and 8.9 grade level equivalent 
attended for an average of 35 hours for the program year while literacy 
students averaged 55 hours, GED students averaged 42 hours, and ESOL 
students averaged 65 hours." 
 
So they gathered more data by talking with students in the pre-GED level 
and found that they did not feel comfortable going from their student 
orientation into a classroom where the instructor and students already 
knew each other.  Based on that, they re-arranged class schedules to give 
instructors a half hour to meet with new students before the start of 
class.   That made a difference evidenced by the next year's report -- the 
average hours of attendance for those students increased to 52 hours. 
 
I think examples like this are what make me excited about "data."
 
I'm wondering if anyone has other examples to share, or questions about 
what type of data to review to address specific concerns.  Anyone??
 
Cathay
 


Cathay O. Reta
Cornerstone Concepts
6670 Southside Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90022
Ph: 323) 728-4302
cathayreta at sbcglobal.net

--- On Wed, 12/10/08, Vivian Copsey <copsey at allencc.edu> wrote:
From: Vivian Copsey <copsey at allencc.edu>
Subject: [Assessment 1501] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 11:45 AM
I agree wholeheartedly with your approach to reviewing data. In Kansas, we 
are required to meet certain indicators of a quality adult education 
program in order to receive funding. Our instructional staff realizes our 
data reflects our progress toward these measures. We have an excellent 
database used by all AEFLA funded programs across the State. The database 
is available for review by the staff at the Kansas Board of Regents and by 
any member of our staff. A representative for the adult education program 
does a yearly on-site visit  to review files for accuracy.

I am the only one who enters data. Any incorrect data becomes my 
responsibility. At our monthly staff meetings, all data is compared to the 
student's file for accuracy. Because we a very small, rural program (118 
participants with 12 hours or more in fiscal year 2008), I am able to 
continually review data on a weekly basis. Reports are printed out weekly 
and compared with what goals we projected, building from previous years.

Our staff meetings consist of two full time instructors, one part time 
instructor, one part time administrative staff and one full time 
administrative staff. Because we work very closely as a team, we look at 
the data for the whole program. If there are deficits in any area, we 
began to look at ways for improvement. Staff members are helpful to one 
another in giving suggestions.

Overall, when our staff members receive a report, they are very interested 
in our outcomes. Sometimes there is no awareness of progress or lack of 
progress until it is seen on paper. The results don't carry any negative 
connotations but a desire for improvement.

Vivian Copsey
Coordinator Adult Education
Allen Community College
1801 N. Cottonwood
Iola, KS 66749
620.365.5116 x250

At 08:35 AM 12/10/2008 -0500, you wrote:
Having staff have buy-in to looking at and using data can be a challenge 
but
if programs make the effort to make this a part of what they do, it will
become institutionalized over time. 
One way to begin to look at data is to bring some data to a staff meeting.
Do an activity where everyone gets a chance to look at the data and see 
what
stands out to them.  Then go around the room and let each person say what
stands out.  (Include ALL staff in this- teachers, administrators, support
personnel, volunteers).  Make a list of the things that stand out and then
have a discussion about the different things.  It could be that people
notice something really good or maybe an area of needed improvement. 
We do this with our year end data every year.  We look at enrollment,
retention, gains, goals achieved, demographics, numbers of ABE/GED/ESL
students, inquiries, and more.  We usually find a few things to focus on 
for
the next program year from this activity.  Some of our best ideas for
program improvement have come from our receptionist and office manager, as
they were looking at the data from a different perspective.

We also started adding looking at data to all of our meetings.  We choose 
an
area to look at and examine (this is done in our monthly program 
improvement
meetings, teacher meetings, and other sub-groups of our staff's meetings).
We always try to look at data before making program changes (if the data 
is
available).  Teachers eventually have gotten used to looking at the data 
and
seeing how it can inform their practice. They are more aware of their
students' attendance and testing information and can be more helpful in
helping the agency to make standards. 

If your staff are not used to looking at data, start small but keep it
consistent.  Make it a habit and eventually it will be part of what they 
do.

We do have great systems in PA where using data is something that is
required at the state level.  Our program improvement plans that are
required for state funding must be built on data analysis.  We have many
teachers and administrators that do practitioner research.  However, this
doesn't mean that using data for program improvement is always easy.  It 
is
time consuming but without it we are making decisions based on intuition 
or
hunches, which can have disastrous results.  Change is sometimes
uncomfortable but all staff can see the value of using data once they 
learn
how to look at it and how it can better inform their practice.

********************************************
Lori Keefer
Program Director
Greater Pittsburgh Literacy Council
100 Sheridan Square 4th floor
Pittsburgh PA 15206
412.661.7323 ext 131
fax: 412.661.3040
lkeefer at gplc.org
www.gplc.org
 
This email is intended solely for the use of the named addressees and is 
not
meant for general distribution. If you are not the intended recipient,
please report the error to the originator and delete the contents.
 
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of David Rosen
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:57 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1494] Re: Using Data

Drucie and others,

Earlier in this discussion I asked for specific examples (narratives) 
of teachers systematically using program data to answer their 
questions. In the SEQUEL Monographs that you suggested we look at, 
found at

http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org/pafamilyliteracy/cwp/view.asp? 
a=223&Q=145708&PM=1

I see several good examples in these monographs. Thank you for 
calling them to our attention. I would like to mention one, in 
particular, the Seneca Highlands Intermediate Unit 9-"Cooperative 
Learning in Adult Education to Improve Attitudes and Skills in Math" .

One of the biggest challenges our field faces is that very, very few 
(I think under 4%) of those in adult secondary education who say they 
want to go to college actually complete a degree. There are many 
reasons for this, but one of the biggest is that they cannot pass 
(usually required) college algebra.  This is because they did not get 
(positive)  exposure to algebra either in school or in an adult 
literacy education program. It is also because -- even if algebra is 
offered in their ASE program -- many have negative attitudes about, 
or fear of, learning algebra.  This study, carried out by program 
practitioners, looks at the use of cooperative learning as a strategy 
to help students overcome negative attitudes and increase knowledge 
of algebra during an eight-week program. The monograph is short, well- 
written, easy to read, and has some findings worth getting excited 
about. It would be great if there were other programs, where teachers 
care about this problem, that could replicate it. I wonder if any 
programs in Pennsylvania have already done that.

It would be terrific if there were a U.S. national adult literacy 
research institute (such as NCSALL was) that would make funds 
available to support programs replicating important studies such as 
this, to help build a body of professional wisdom on the use of 
cooperative learning in adult numeracy and mathematics. This might 
provide a sufficient base of evidence to see if it is worthwhile 
later to do "gold standard" experimental research.

Thanks, Drucie, and other leaders at all levels in Pennsylvania, who 
have for many years now supported programs using data for program 
decision-making. It looks like this may be paying off for 
Pennsylvania practitioners, as they learn what does and doesn't work 
for their students, and it is contributing to a literature of 
professional wisdom* so necessary in our field.

David J. Rosen
djrosen at theworld.com

* For a dialogue about professional wisdom (including a definition) 
with John Comings, former Director of the U.S. National Center for 
the Study of Adult learning and Literacy,  see: http:// 
wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Professional_Wisdom




On Dec 9, 2008, at 11:23 AM, Drucilla Weirauch wrote:

> In Pennsylvania we have a statewide program improvement initiative
> that uses a specific Practitioner Action Research (PAR) model. Each
> program chooses its own area of inquiry, based on its data. These
> data may be hard data (scores, hours, enrollment numbers, etc.) or
> other data, based on our Indicators of Program Quality (for example,
> the quality of the adult education classroom environment or depth of
> partnerships). Last year, there were 61 projects conducted by PA
> Family Literacy sites. Topics ranged from increasing enrollment or
> retention hours, implementing scientifically-based reading research
> in the adult classroom, improving children's oral receptive
> vocabulary, to increasing referrals from partners. In the spring we
> hosted regional poster shows where programs showcased their projects
> and results. Each program also submitted a monograph that detailed
> their question and background to it (the data), the interventions,
> data sources, results, reflections, and implications for the field.
>
> Monographs can be found at our website
> www.pafamilyliteracy.org. Left side, click on SEQUAL project, then 
> Monographs.
>
> The website also includes the PAR handbook that helped the programs
> identify a problem based on data, intervention,  choose best data 
> sources, etc.
>
> I evaluated the process to ascertain practitioners' perceptions of
> the inaugural year of the intentional, systematic PAR process. While
> it added a layer of work, most felt that it empowered them as
> practitioners and gave their program "teeth." What was also important
> is that this allowed them to show highlights of their program and
> program improvement that mere data do not always capture (e.g. data
> reported to the state and feds.) Programs used data to inform their
> question and chart their success. Analyzing and reflecting on the
> data made it more than mere numbers. This evaluation report is also
> on the website. It includes a summary of the outcomes from the
> projects and the perceptions of the participants on the research 
> process.
>
> Drucie Weirauch
> Penn State University
> Goodling Institute for Research in Family Literacy
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to djrosen at theworld.com






-------------------------------
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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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Email delivered to lkeefer at gplc.org


-------------------------------
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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
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-------------------------------
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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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Email delivered to cathayreta at sbcglobal.net
 -------------------------------
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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
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From barry.bakin at lausd.net  Thu Dec 11 12:06:00 2008
From: barry.bakin at lausd.net (Bakin, Barry)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:06:00 -0800
Subject: [Assessment 1510] Re: Getting staff used to using data
References: <316787.94374.qm@web82706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D7D008D5A3EAF6478CF0328F18E6639B91AE33@MAILBE-LA13.lausd.net>

Data is not just for classroom instructional staff to analyze. Our staff meeting yesterday(of teacher trainers responsible for staff development)focused on using attendance and ADA statistics collected since 1999 as a way to determine whether or not our team's staff development efforts over the last several years has resulted in increases in student attendance and retention by students whose teachers have taken staff development workshops. We have an immediate and pressing interest for doing so, as expected district-wide budget shortfalls of millions of dollars are leading some at the district level to advocate for the elimination of staff-development programs in the coming year.  We obviously feel that teachers who improve their skills will retain students better than those who don't, but we'd like to be able to point to data that demonstrates that.

Barry Bakin
ESL Teacher Adviser
Division of Adult and Career Education
Los Angeles Unified School District
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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Thu Dec 11 12:13:47 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:13:47 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1511] Re: Testing and Managed Enrollment
In-Reply-To: <OF9CB058E2.DE3B0194-ON8525751C.005AA725-8525751C.005AE509@vcu.edu>
Message-ID: <076501c95bb3$d4b253a0$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi all,

 

This thread is interesting to me.  If you look at the focus areas in the
first module of the initiative (see Recommended Preparations for the
Discussion at http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/08data.html)
you will see that a number of these areas speak either directly or
indirectly to the exchanges below by Barbara, Phil and Nancy.  They focus on
things that would affect pre and post testing, student follow-up,
achievement of goals, and the like.  Managed enrollment also came up during
out work with Module 2 as well.

 

One of the things that Cathay and I found in identifying programs that
employed successful practices was a deliberate move away from
open-enrollment toward managed enrollment.  The consequences of such a move
completely affected important items like student testing, recruitment and
retention, even staff retention, in very positive ways.  It's a layer of
accountability that is the responsibility first of the student and therefore
can change the dynamic of the program.

 

Cathay - do you have any comments about managed enrollment and its positive
affects on the program?  Vivian, Donielle, and Lori - any thoughts here on
open versus managed enrollment?

 

Everyone - your thoughts?

 

Marie

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Nancy R Faux/AC/VCU
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:33 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1509] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data

 


Phil, 

Your statistics on Managed Enrollment (ME) are very encouraging.  I am going
to save your email to use it later on when speaking with programs that are
resistant to ME. 

I also find it insightful that your courses are only 7-8 weeks.  About how
many hours of instruction per week would there be?  Do the students have
enough hours to qualify for a post-test? 

Nancy 

*********************************************************
Nancy R. Faux
ESOL Specialist
Virginia Adult Learning Resource Center
Virginia Commonwealth University
3600 W. Broad Street, Suite 669
Richmond, VA 23230-4930
nfaux at vcu.edu
 <http://www.valrc.org/> http://www.valrc.org
1-800-237-0178 




"Anderson, Philip" <Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org> 
Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 

12/11/2008 10:31 AM 


Please respond to
The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>


To

<barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu>, "The Assessment Discussion List"
<assessment at nifl.gov> 


cc

 


Subject

[Assessment 1508] Re: [BULK]    Getting staff used to using data

 


 

 




Barbara, 
  
When you say you get 60%, do you mean that you get 60% of the students to
take a post-test, or that you get 60% of the students to pass to a higher
level when they post-test? 
  
Either way, compared to the numbers we see in Florida, that is great!  We
see less than 50% of the students take a post-test, and, depending on the
level, we usually see about 25-30% of the total number of enrolled students
that pass to a higher level.  However, when students do take a post-test, we
see that about 50% of these students actually pass to a higher level.
Programs in Florida use primarily the CASAS Life and Work series for ESOL
students.  The other tests that our programs use are the BEST Plus and BEST
Literacy.  
  
The message we are trying to get out is that programs need to find ways to
get students to stay in class long enough to post-test.  If a few more
percentage points of the students would "persist" until they post-test, the
data would show much higher rates of students passing to higher levels.
Programs will show much stronger results if only they can hone in on
"retaining" students! 
  
Florida has had several local programs begin to implement managed enrollment
in their ESOL programs, and the results are astoundingly high!  Managed
Enrollment (ME) programs consistently see 80-90% of students stay long
enough to post-test.  And of those who post-test, 70-80% pass to a higher
level. 
  
Miami Dade school district adult ESOL program did a pilot of 7 sites with
ME, and showed these types of numbers.  They called the ME classes
"Intensive English Academies."  Although the curriculum was the same, the
length of the courses was shortened to 7-8 weeks, and after the first week
the classes were closed to new students entering.  The teachers and students
found they were free from the chaos of students coming and going so much,
and were able to build on previous lessons better.  For more information
about the ESOL Academies, visit  <http://www.floridaadultesol.org/>
www.floridaadultesol.org, or write to Dr. Beatriz Diaz, Adult ESOL
Coordinator, at  <mailto:bdiaz at dadeschools.net> bdiaz at dadeschools.net.   
  
Phil 
(850) 245-9450 

 

  _____  


From: Barbara Jacala [mailto:barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:00 PM
To: cathayreta at sbcglobal.net; 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1505] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data 
  
Hello. I am a latecomer to this discussion and I hope not too late to get
feedback from experienced practitioners. I am the program specialist for
adult education at Guam Community College. The difficulty we encounter is in
raising the level of our paired tests (pre and post). I am getting only
about 60%. Is this average for this population? How are others encouraging
students to take the post before leaving? Or how are they making sure that
everyone is post tested? What strategies have you put in place? 
  
Barbara Jacala 
Guam Community College 
Adult Education Program Specialist 
POB 23069 GMF, GU 96931 
671-735-5584 
barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu 
  

 

  _____  


From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Cathay Reta
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:29 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1503] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data 
  


Hello, 
  
As someone previously mentioned, I think it is helpful to see that data is
more than numbers.  It also includes information drawn from surveys, focus
groups, interviews, etc.  I am reminded of Project Learn in Akron, Ohio.
Their reports showed that 
  
 "Students functioning between the 5.0 and 8.9 grade level equivalent
attended for an average of 35 hours for the program year while literacy
students averaged 55 hours, GED students averaged 42 hours, and ESOL
students averaged 65 hours."   
  
So they gathered more data by talking with students in the pre-GED level and
found that they did not feel comfortable going from their student
orientation into a classroom where the instructor and students already knew
each other.  Based on that, they re-arranged class schedules to give
instructors a half hour to meet with new students before the start of class.
That made a difference evidenced by the next year's report -- the average
hours of attendance for those students increased to 52 hours.   
  
I think examples like this are what make me excited about "data." 
  
I'm wondering if anyone has other examples to share, or questions about what
type of data to review to address specific concerns.  Anyone?? 
  
Cathay 
  


Cathay O. Reta
Cornerstone Concepts
6670 Southside Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90022
Ph: 323) 728-4302
cathayreta at sbcglobal.net

--- On Wed, 12/10/08, Vivian Copsey <copsey at allencc.edu> wrote: 
From: Vivian Copsey <copsey at allencc.edu>
Subject: [Assessment 1501] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 11:45 AM 
I agree wholeheartedly with your approach to reviewing data. In Kansas, we
are required to meet certain indicators of a quality adult education program
in order to receive funding. Our instructional staff realizes our data
reflects our progress toward these measures. We have an excellent database
used by all AEFLA funded programs across the State. The database is
available for review by the staff at the Kansas Board of Regents and by any
member of our staff. A representative for the adult education program does a
yearly on-site visit  to review files for accuracy.

I am the only one who enters data. Any incorrect data becomes my
responsibility. At our monthly staff meetings, all data is compared to the
student's file for accuracy. Because we a very small, rural program (118
participants with 12 hours or more in fiscal year 2008), I am able to
continually review data on a weekly basis. Reports are printed out weekly
and compared with what goals we projected, building from previous years.

Our staff meetings consist of two full time instructors, one part time
instructor, one part time administrative staff and one full time
administrative staff. Because we work very closely as a team, we look at the
data for the whole program. If there are deficits in any area, we began to
look at ways for improvement. Staff members are helpful to one another in
giving suggestions.

Overall, when our staff members receive a report, they are very interested
in our outcomes. Sometimes there is no awareness of progress or lack of
progress until it is seen on paper. The results don't carry any negative
connotations but a desire for improvement.

Vivian Copsey
Coordinator Adult Education
Allen Community College
1801 N. Cottonwood
Iola, KS 66749
620.365.5116 x250

At 08:35 AM 12/10/2008 -0500, you wrote: 
Having staff have buy-in to looking at and using data can be a challenge but
if programs make the effort to make this a part of what they do, it will
become institutionalized over time. 
One way to begin to look at data is to bring some data to a staff meeting.
Do an activity where everyone gets a chance to look at the data and see what
stands out to them.  Then go around the room and let each person say what
stands out.  (Include ALL staff in this- teachers, administrators, support
personnel, volunteers).  Make a list of the things that stand out and then
have a discussion about the different things.  It could be that people
notice something really good or maybe an area of needed improvement.  
We do this with our year end data every year.  We look at enrollment,
retention, gains, goals achieved, demographics, numbers of ABE/GED/ESL
students, inquiries, and more.  We usually find a few things to focus on for
the next program year from this activity.  Some of our best ideas for
program improvement have come from our receptionist and office manager, as
they were looking at the data from a different perspective.

We also started adding looking at data to all of our meetings.  We choose an
area to look at and examine (this is done in our monthly program improvement
meetings, teacher meetings, and other sub-groups of our staff's meetings).
We always try to look at data before making program changes (if the data is
available).  Teachers eventually have gotten used to looking at the data and
seeing how it can inform their practice. They are more aware of their
students' attendance and testing information and can be more helpful in
helping the agency to make standards. 

If your staff are not used to looking at data, start small but keep it
consistent.  Make it a habit and eventually it will be part of what they do.

We do have great systems in PA where using data is something that is
required at the state level.  Our program improvement plans that are
required for state funding must be built on data analysis.  We have many
teachers and administrators that do practitioner research.  However, this
doesn't mean that using data for program improvement is always easy.  It is
time consuming but without it we are making decisions based on intuition or
hunches, which can have disastrous results.  Change is sometimes
uncomfortable but all staff can see the value of using data once they learn
how to look at it and how it can better inform their practice.

********************************************
Lori Keefer
Program Director
Greater Pittsburgh Literacy Council
100 Sheridan Square 4th floor
Pittsburgh PA 15206
412.661.7323 ext 131
fax: 412.661.3040
lkeefer at gplc.org
www.gplc.org <http://www.gplc.org/> 

This email is intended solely for the use of the named addressees and is not
meant for general distribution. If you are not the intended recipient,
please report the error to the originator and delete the contents.

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of David Rosen
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:57 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1494] Re: Using Data

Drucie and others,

Earlier in this discussion I asked for specific examples (narratives)  
of teachers systematically using program data to answer their  
questions. In the SEQUEL Monographs that you suggested we look at,  
found at

http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org/pafamilyliteracy/cwp/view.asp? 
a=223&Q=145708&PM=1

I see several good examples in these monographs. Thank you for  
calling them to our attention. I would like to mention one, in  
particular, the Seneca Highlands Intermediate Unit 9-"Cooperative  
Learning in Adult Education to Improve Attitudes and Skills in Math" .

One of the biggest challenges our field faces is that very, very few  
(I think under 4%) of those in adult secondary education who say they  
want to go to college actually complete a degree. There are many  
reasons for this, but one of the biggest is that they cannot pass  
(usually required) college algebra.  This is because they did not get  
(positive)  exposure to algebra either in school or in an adult  
literacy education program. It is also because -- even if algebra is  
offered in their ASE program -- many have negative attitudes about,  
or fear of, learning algebra.  This study, carried out by program  
practitioners, looks at the use of cooperative learning as a strategy  
to help students overcome negative attitudes and increase knowledge  
of algebra during an eight-week program. The monograph is short, well- 
written, easy to read, and has some findings worth getting excited  
about. It would be great if there were other programs, where teachers  
care about this problem, that could replicate it. I wonder if any  
programs in Pennsylvania have already done that.

It would be terrific if there were a U.S. national adult literacy  
research institute (such as NCSALL was) that would make funds  
available to support programs replicating important studies such as  
this, to help build a body of professional wisdom on the use of  
cooperative learning in adult numeracy and mathematics. This might  
provide a sufficient base of evidence to see if it is worthwhile  
later to do "gold standard" experimental research.

Thanks, Drucie, and other leaders at all levels in Pennsylvania, who  
have for many years now supported programs using data for program  
decision-making. It looks like this may be paying off for  
Pennsylvania practitioners, as they learn what does and doesn't work  
for their students, and it is contributing to a literature of  
professional wisdom* so necessary in our field.

David J. Rosen
djrosen at theworld.com

* For a dialogue about professional wisdom (including a definition)  
with John Comings, former Director of the U.S. National Center for  
the Study of Adult learning and Literacy,  see: http:// 
wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Professional_Wisdom




On Dec 9, 2008, at 11:23 AM, Drucilla Weirauch wrote:

> In Pennsylvania we have a statewide program improvement initiative
> that uses a specific Practitioner Action Research (PAR) model. Each
> program chooses its own area of inquiry, based on its data. These
> data may be hard data (scores, hours, enrollment numbers, etc.) or
> other data, based on our Indicators of Program Quality (for example,
> the quality of the adult education classroom environment or depth of
> partnerships). Last year, there were 61 projects conducted by PA
> Family Literacy sites. Topics ranged from increasing enrollment or
> retention hours, implementing scientifically-based reading research
> in the adult classroom, improving children's oral receptive
> vocabulary, to increasing referrals from partners. In the spring we
> hosted regional poster shows where programs showcased their projects
> and results. Each program also submitted a monograph that detailed
> their question and background to it (the data), the interventions,
> data sources, results, reflections, and implications for the field.
>
> Monographs can be found at our website
> www.pafamilyliteracy.org. <http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org.%20/>  Left
side, click on SEQUAL project, then  
> Monographs.
>
> The website also includes the PAR handbook that helped the programs
> identify a problem based on data, intervention,  choose best data  
> sources, etc.
>
> I evaluated the process to ascertain practitioners' perceptions of
> the inaugural year of the intentional, systematic PAR process. While
> it added a layer of work, most felt that it empowered them as
> practitioners and gave their program "teeth." What was also important
> is that this allowed them to show highlights of their program and
> program improvement that mere data do not always capture (e.g. data
> reported to the state and feds.) Programs used data to inform their
> question and chart their success. Analyzing and reflecting on the
> data made it more than mere numbers. This evaluation report is also
> on the website. It includes a summary of the outcomes from the
> projects and the perceptions of the participants on the research  
> process.
>
> Drucie Weirauch
> Penn State University
> Goodling Institute for Research in Family Literacy
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to djrosen at theworld.com






-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to lkeefer at gplc.org


-------------------------------
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Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to copsey at allencc.edu 
  
------------------------------- 
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Assessment mailing list 
Assessment at nifl.gov 
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
 <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment 
Email delivered to cathayreta at sbcglobal.net


 -------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to nfaux at vcu.edu


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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Thu Dec 11 12:19:09 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:19:09 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1512] Re: what is the definition of data
In-Reply-To: <BAY103-W32ABD25B94753ED220A202C5F80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <076a01c95bb4$95f6f340$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi George and everyone,

 

Thanks so much for this question George.  It is always good to start at the
beginning!

 

What do people think?  I noted in a post earlier this week that my
definition of data is quite broad - I said that data pretty much equals
information - can't really get broader than that!

 

But I see where you are coming from George.

 

What do other people think?  When you hear "data", what do you think about?
Is your idea more narrow or broader?  Is it a scary term or a welcome term,
and why?  

 

This discussion would speak directly to staff buy-in:  if everyone has a
different idea of what data is and how it can be used, then that's tough.  A
few folks have discussed related ideas to this in other posts.

 

Marie

 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of gdemetrion at msn.com
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:35 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1507] what is the definition of data

 

Good morning all.
 
The term "data" is being used a great deal in these discussions and the
posts are very informative. I do want to check in here:  What is meant by
"data" and how is that distinguished, if at all, from other sources of
information ort evidence bearing on how, in what contexts, what, and how
rapidly students come to learn, which, depending on the definition of
learning as at the least, some shift in awareness, is probably taking place
more or less in all situations.
 
Best,
 
George Demetrion



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From mtate at sbctc.edu  Thu Dec 11 12:26:36 2008
From: mtate at sbctc.edu (Michael Tate)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:26:36 -0800
Subject: [Assessment 1513] Re: [BULK]    Getting staff used to using data
In-Reply-To: <18F4DC755DD84FDEA51CBF74540B558F@DeptUserName>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20081210130658.0324cb80@allencc.edu><316787.94374.qm@web82706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<18F4DC755DD84FDEA51CBF74540B558F@DeptUserName>
Message-ID: <0CA6C79FCB4AC642A77B76C17A4316EE0482DC19@exch-1.sbctc2.local>

Hafa dai Barbara!  Washington State's assessment policy requires a minimum of 50% on post-test ratio, and the state average is 59%. 

 

We had 6 (out of 50 some) programs below 50%, with 2 programs in the mid-40% range, 1 in the high 30% range, 2 in the low 30% range, and 1 in the high 20% range.   These programs will be developing  action plans to improve their results on this data element.  

 

Often, their success is dragged down by poor data processes (not just post-testing processes) in outreach sites and not limiting enrollment to inmates with longer sentences in county jail sites.  

 

Programs can receive performance funding for 3-5 point gains on the CASAS test, as well as on other student successes.

 

I hope all is well with you.  

 

Michael Tate

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Barbara Jacala
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:00 PM
To: cathayreta at sbcglobal.net; 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1505] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data

 

Hello. I am a latecomer to this discussion and I hope not too late to get feedback from experienced practitioners. I am the program specialist for adult education at Guam Community College. The difficulty we encounter is in raising the level of our paired tests (pre and post). I am getting only about 60%. Is this average for this population? How are others encouraging students to take the post before leaving? Or how are they making sure that everyone is post tested? What strategies have you put in place?

 

Barbara Jacala

Guam Community College

Adult Education Program Specialist

POB 23069 GMF, GU 96931

671-735-5584

barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu

 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Cathay Reta
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:29 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1503] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data

 

Hello,

 

As someone previously mentioned, I think it is helpful to see that data is more than numbers.  It also includes information drawn from surveys, focus groups, interviews, etc.  I am reminded of Project Learn in Akron, Ohio.  Their reports showed that

 

 "Students functioning between the 5.0 and 8.9 grade level equivalent attended for an average of 35 hours for the program year while literacy students averaged 55 hours, GED students averaged 42 hours, and ESOL students averaged 65 hours."  

 

So they gathered more data by talking with students in the pre-GED level and found that they did not feel comfortable going from their student orientation into a classroom where the instructor and students already knew each other.  Based on that, they re-arranged class schedules to give instructors a half hour to meet with new students before the start of class.   That made a difference evidenced by the next year's report -- the average hours of attendance for those students increased to 52 hours.  

 

I think examples like this are what make me excited about "data."

 

I'm wondering if anyone has other examples to share, or questions about what type of data to review to address specific concerns.  Anyone??

 

Cathay

 



Cathay O. Reta
Cornerstone Concepts
6670 Southside Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90022
Ph: 323) 728-4302
cathayreta at sbcglobal.net

--- On Wed, 12/10/08, Vivian Copsey <copsey at allencc.edu> wrote:

	From: Vivian Copsey <copsey at allencc.edu>
	Subject: [Assessment 1501] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data
	To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
	Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 11:45 AM

	I agree wholeheartedly with your approach to reviewing data. In Kansas, we are required to meet certain indicators of a quality adult education program in order to receive funding. Our instructional staff realizes our data reflects our progress toward these measures. We have an excellent database used by all AEFLA funded programs across the State. The database is available for review by the staff at the Kansas Board of Regents and by any member of our staff. A representative for the adult education program does a yearly on-site visit  to review files for accuracy.
	
	I am the only one who enters data. Any incorrect data becomes my responsibility. At our monthly staff meetings, all data is compared to the student's file for accuracy. Because we a very small, rural program (118 participants with 12 hours or more in fiscal year 2008), I am able to continually review data on a weekly basis. Reports are printed out weekly and compared with what goals we projected, building from previous years.
	
	Our staff meetings consist of two full time instructors, one part time instructor, one part time administrative staff and one full time administrative staff. Because we work very closely as a team, we look at the data for the whole program. If there are deficits in any area, we began to look at ways for improvement. Staff members are helpful to one another in giving suggestions.
	
	Overall, when our staff members receive a report, they are very interested in our outcomes. Sometimes there is no awareness of progress or lack of progress until it is seen on paper. The results don't carry any negative connotations but a desire for improvement.
	
	Vivian Copsey
	Coordinator Adult Education
	Allen Community College
	1801 N. Cottonwood
	Iola, KS 66749
	620.365.5116 x250
	
	At 08:35 AM 12/10/2008 -0500, you wrote:

	Having staff have buy-in to looking at and using data can be a challenge but
	if programs make the effort to make this a part of what they do, it will
	become institutionalized over time. 
	One way to begin to look at data is to bring some data to a staff meeting.
	Do an activity where everyone gets a chance to look at the data and see what
	stands out to them.  Then go around the room and let each person say what
	stands out.  (Include ALL staff in this- teachers, administrators, support
	personnel, volunteers).  Make a list of the things that stand out and then
	have a discussion about the different things.  It could be that people
	notice something really good or maybe an area of needed improvement.  
	We do this with our year end data every year.  We look at enrollment,
	retention, gains, goals achieved, demographics, numbers of ABE/GED/ESL
	students, inquiries, and more.  We usually find a few things to focus on for
	the next program year from this activity.  Some of our best ideas for
	program improvement have come from our receptionist and office manager, as
	they were looking at the data from a different perspective.
	
	We also started adding looking at data to all of our meetings.  We choose an
	area to look at and examine (this is done in our monthly program improvement
	meetings, teacher meetings, and other sub-groups of our staff's meetings).
	We always try to look at data before making program changes (if the data is
	available).  Teachers eventually have gotten used to looking at the data and
	seeing how it can inform their practice. They are more aware of their
	students' attendance and testing information and can be more helpful in
	helping the agency to make standards. 
	
	If your staff are not used to looking at data, start small but keep it
	consistent.  Make it a habit and eventually it will be part of what they do.
	
	We do have great systems in PA where using data is something that is
	required at the state level.  Our program improvement plans that are
	required for state funding must be built on data analysis.  We have many
	teachers and administrators that do practitioner research.  However, this
	doesn't mean that using data for program improvement is always easy.  It is
	time consuming but without it we are making decisions based on intuition or
	hunches, which can have disastrous results.  Change is sometimes
	uncomfortable but all staff can see the value of using data once they learn
	how to look at it and how it can better inform their practice.
	
	********************************************
	Lori Keefer
	Program Director
	Greater Pittsburgh Literacy Council
	100 Sheridan Square 4th floor
	Pittsburgh PA 15206
	412.661.7323 ext 131
	fax: 412.661.3040
	lkeefer at gplc.org
	www.gplc.org <http://www.gplc.org/> 
	 
	This email is intended solely for the use of the named addressees and is not
	meant for general distribution. If you are not the intended recipient,
	please report the error to the originator and delete the contents.
	 
	-----Original Message-----
	From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
	Behalf Of David Rosen
	Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:57 AM
	To: The Assessment Discussion List
	Subject: [Assessment 1494] Re: Using Data
	
	Drucie and others,
	
	Earlier in this discussion I asked for specific examples (narratives)  
	of teachers systematically using program data to answer their  
	questions. In the SEQUEL Monographs that you suggested we look at,  
	found at
	
	http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org/pafamilyliteracy/cwp/view.asp? 
	a=223&Q=145708&PM=1
	
	I see several good examples in these monographs. Thank you for  
	calling them to our attention. I would like to mention one, in  
	particular, the Seneca Highlands Intermediate Unit 9-"Cooperative  
	Learning in Adult Education to Improve Attitudes and Skills in Math" .
	
	One of the biggest challenges our field faces is that very, very few  
	(I think under 4%) of those in adult secondary education who say they  
	want to go to college actually complete a degree. There are many  
	reasons for this, but one of the biggest is that they cannot pass  
	(usually required) college algebra.  This is because they did not get  
	(positive)  exposure to algebra either in school or in an adult  
	literacy education program. It is also because -- even if algebra is  
	offered in their ASE program -- many have negative attitudes about,  
	or fear of, learning algebra.  This study, carried out by program  
	practitioners, looks at the use of cooperative learning as a strategy  
	to help students overcome negative attitudes and increase knowledge  
	of algebra during an eight-week program. The monograph is short, well- 
	written, easy to read, and has some findings worth getting excited  
	about. It would be great if there were other programs, where teachers  
	care about this problem, that could replicate it. I wonder if any  
	programs in Pennsylvania have already done that.
	
	It would be terrific if there were a U.S. national adult literacy  
	research institute (such as NCSALL was) that would make funds  
	available to support programs replicating important studies such as  
	this, to help build a body of professional wisdom on the use of  
	cooperative learning in adult numeracy and mathematics. This might  
	provide a sufficient base of evidence to see if it is worthwhile  
	later to do "gold standard" experimental research.
	
	Thanks, Drucie, and other leaders at all levels in Pennsylvania, who  
	have for many years now supported programs using data for program  
	decision-making. It looks like this may be paying off for  
	Pennsylvania practitioners, as they learn what does and doesn't work  
	for their students, and it is contributing to a literature of  
	professional wisdom* so necessary in our field.
	
	David J. Rosen
	djrosen at theworld.com
	
	* For a dialogue about professional wisdom (including a definition)  
	with John Comings, former Director of the U.S. National Center for  
	the Study of Adult learning and Literacy,  see: http:// 
	wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Professional_Wisdom
	
	
	
	
	On Dec 9, 2008, at 11:23 AM, Drucilla Weirauch wrote:
	
	> In Pennsylvania we have a statewide program improvement initiative
	> that uses a specific Practitioner Action Research (PAR) model. Each
	> program chooses its own area of inquiry, based on its data. These
	> data may be hard data (scores, hours, enrollment numbers, etc.) or
	> other data, based on our Indicators of Program Quality (for example,
	> the quality of the adult education classroom environment or depth of
	> partnerships). Last year, there were 61 projects conducted by PA
	> Family Literacy sites. Topics ranged from increasing enrollment or
	> retention hours, implementing scientifically-based reading research
	> in the adult classroom, improving children's oral receptive
	> vocabulary, to increasing referrals from partners. In the spring we
	> hosted regional poster shows where programs showcased their projects
	> and results. Each program also submitted a monograph that detailed
	> their question and background to it (the data), the interventions,
	> data sources, results, reflections, and implications for the field.
	>
	> Monographs can be found at our website
	> www.pafamilyliteracy.org. <http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org.?/> Left side, click on SEQUAL project, then  
	> Monographs.
	>
	> The website also includes the PAR handbook that helped the programs
	> identify a problem based on data, intervention,  choose best data  
	> sources, etc.
	>
	> I evaluated the process to ascertain practitioners' perceptions of
	> the inaugural year of the intentional, systematic PAR process. While
	> it added a layer of work, most felt that it empowered them as
	> practitioners and gave their program "teeth." What was also important
	> is that this allowed them to show highlights of their program and
	> program improvement that mere data do not always capture (e.g. data
	> reported to the state and feds.) Programs used data to inform their
	> question and chart their success. Analyzing and reflecting on the
	> data made it more than mere numbers. This evaluation report is also
	> on the website. It includes a summary of the outcomes from the
	> projects and the perceptions of the participants on the research  
	> process.
	>
	> Drucie Weirauch
	> Penn State University
	> Goodling Institute for Research in Family Literacy
	>
	> -------------------------------
	> National Institute for Literacy
	> Assessment mailing list
	> Assessment at nifl.gov
	> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
	> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
	> Email delivered to djrosen at theworld.com
	
	
	
	
	
	
	-------------------------------
	National Institute for Literacy
	Assessment mailing list
	Assessment at nifl.gov
	To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
	http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
	Email delivered to lkeefer at gplc.org
	
	
	-------------------------------
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	To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
	Email delivered to copsey at allencc.edu

	 

	-------------------------------
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From copsey at allencc.edu  Thu Dec 11 13:00:47 2008
From: copsey at allencc.edu (Vivian Copsey)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:00:47 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1514] Re: Testing and Managed Enrollment
In-Reply-To: <076501c95bb3$d4b253a0$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
References: <OF9CB058E2.DE3B0194-ON8525751C.005AA725-8525751C.005AE509@vcu.edu>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20081211113458.0306c008@allencc.edu>

Our program has managed enrollment. At times, instructors have allowed 
students to come in after a session has started. Most of the time, this has 
not been effective. The new student must receive the required 12 hours of 
orientation prior to any instruction. This requires the instructor or other 
staff member to set aside time to do the orientation. The new student must 
try to "catch up" on missed lessons in order to not hold up the rest of the 
class.

When a student must wait for the next enrollment period (our sessions run 
for 8 weeks), it sets the mandate that there are criteria that must be met. 
We require  pre-enrollment. At this time the student fills out a student 
record and takes the appraisal in math and reading. Once a session starts 
and the student has completed the required orientation, a learning 
agreement is signed which includes days and times of instruction. By 
enforcing the attendance policy, we have found students who are disenrolled 
because of attendance but decide to come back to another session, are more 
successful.

By following the guidelines in the Kansas Adult Education Policy and 
Procedures Manual, staff and students have clearly defined practices that 
must be followed. Adult educators across the State have already done the 
research for us.

Vivian Copsey
Coordinator Adult Education
Allen Community College
1801 N. Cottonwood
Iola, KS 66749
620.365.5116 x250


At 12:13 PM 12/11/2008 -0500, you wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>
>
>This thread is interesting to me.  If you look at the focus areas in the 
>first module of the initiative (see Recommended Preparations for the 
>Discussion at 
><http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/08data.html>http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/08data.html) 
>you will see that a number of these areas speak either directly or 
>indirectly to the exchanges below by Barbara, Phil and Nancy.  They focus 
>on things that would affect pre and post testing, student follow-up, 
>achievement of goals, and the like.  Managed enrollment also came up 
>during out work with Module 2 as well.
>
>
>
>One of the things that Cathay and I found in identifying programs that 
>employed successful practices was a deliberate move away from 
>open-enrollment toward managed enrollment.  The consequences of such a 
>move completely affected important items like student testing, recruitment 
>and retention, even staff retention, in very positive ways.  Its a layer 
>of accountability that is the responsibility first of the student and 
>therefore can change the dynamic of the program.
>
>
>
>Cathay do you have any comments about managed enrollment and its positive 
>affects on the program?  Vivian, Donielle, and Lori any thoughts here on 
>open versus managed enrollment?
>
>
>
>Everyone your thoughts?
>
>
>
>Marie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On 
>Behalf Of Nancy R Faux/AC/VCU
>Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:33 AM
>To: The Assessment Discussion List
>Subject: [Assessment 1509] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data
>
>
>
>
>Phil,
>
>Your statistics on Managed Enrollment (ME) are very encouraging.  I am 
>going to save your email to use it later on when speaking with programs 
>that are resistant to ME.
>
>I also find it insightful that your courses are only 7-8 weeks.  About how 
>many hours of instruction per week would there be?  Do the students have 
>enough hours to qualify for a post-test?
>
>Nancy
>
>*********************************************************
>Nancy R. Faux
>ESOL Specialist
>Virginia Adult Learning Resource Center
>Virginia Commonwealth University
>3600 W. Broad Street, Suite 669
>Richmond, VA 23230-4930
>nfaux at vcu.edu
><http://www.valrc.org/>http://www.valrc.org
>1-800-237-0178
>
>"Anderson, Philip" <Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org>
>Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>
>12/11/2008 10:31 AM
>
>Please respond to
>The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
>
>To
>
><barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu>, "The Assessment Discussion List" 
><assessment at nifl.gov>
>
>cc
>
>
>
>Subject
>
>[Assessment 1508] Re: [BULK]    Getting staff used to using data
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Barbara,
>
>When you say you get 60%, do you mean that you get 60% of the students to 
>take a post-test, or that you get 60% of the students to pass to a higher 
>level when they post-test?
>
>Either way, compared to the numbers we see in Florida, that is great!  We 
>see less than 50% of the students take a post-test, and, depending on the 
>level, we usually see about 25-30% of the total number of enrolled 
>students that pass to a higher level.  However, when students do take a 
>post-test, we see that about 50% of these students actually pass to a 
>higher level.  Programs in Florida use primarily the CASAS Life and Work 
>series for ESOL students.  The other tests that our programs use are the 
>BEST Plus and BEST Literacy.
>
>The message we are trying to get out is that programs need to find ways to 
>get students to stay in class long enough to post-test.  If a few more 
>percentage points of the students would persistuntil they post-test, the 
>data would show much higher rates of students passing to higher 
>levels.  Programs will show much stronger results if only they can hone in 
>on retainingstudents!
>
>Florida has had several local programs begin to implement managed 
>enrollment in their ESOL programs, and the results are astoundingly 
>high!  Managed Enrollment (ME) programs consistently see 80-90% of 
>students stay long enough to post-test.  And of those who post-test, 
>70-80% pass to a higher level.
>
>Miami Dade school district adult ESOL program did a pilot of 7 sites with 
>ME, and showed these types of numbers.  They called the ME classes 
>Intensive English Academies. Although the curriculum was the same, the 
>length of the courses was shortened to 7-8 weeks, and after the first week 
>the classes were closed to new students entering.  The teachers and 
>students found they were free from the chaos of students coming and going 
>so much, and were able to build on previous lessons better.  For more 
>information about the ESOL Academies, visit 
><http://www.floridaadultesol.org/>www.floridaadultesol.org, or write to 
>Dr. Beatriz Diaz, Adult ESOL Coordinator, at 
><mailto:bdiaz at dadeschools.net>bdiaz at dadeschools.net.
>
>Phil
>(850) 245-9450
>
>
>
>----------
>
>From: Barbara Jacala [mailto:barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu]
>Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:00 PM
>To: cathayreta at sbcglobal.net; 'The Assessment Discussion List'
>Subject: [Assessment 1505] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data
>
>Hello. I am a latecomer to this discussion and I hope not too late to get 
>feedback from experienced practitioners. I am the program specialist for 
>adult education at Guam Community College. The difficulty we encounter is 
>in raising the level of our paired tests (pre and post). I am getting only 
>about 60%. Is this average for this population? How are others encouraging 
>students to take the post before leaving? Or how are they making sure that 
>everyone is post tested? What strategies have you put in place?
>
>Barbara Jacala
>Guam Community College
>Adult Education Program Specialist
>POB 23069 GMF, GU 96931
>671-735-5584
>barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu
>
>
>
>
>----------
>
>From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On 
>Behalf Of Cathay Reta
>Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:29 AM
>To: The Assessment Discussion List
>Subject: [Assessment 1503] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data
>
>
>Hello,
>
>As someone previously mentioned, I think it is helpful to see that data is 
>more than numbers.  It also includes information drawn from surveys, focus 
>groups, interviews, etc.  I am reminded of Project Learn in Akron, 
>Ohio.  Their reports showed that
>
>  "Students functioning between the 5.0 and 8.9 grade level equivalent 
> attended for an average of 35 hours for the program year while literacy 
> students averaged 55 hours, GED students averaged 42 hours, and ESOL 
> students averaged 65 hours."
>
>So they gathered more data by talking with students in the pre-GED level 
>and found that they did not feel comfortable going from their student 
>orientation into a classroom where the instructor and students already 
>knew each other.  Based on that, they re-arranged class schedules to give 
>instructors a half hour to meet with new students before the start of 
>class.   That made a difference evidenced by the next year's report -- the 
>average hours of attendance for those students increased to 52 hours.
>
>I think examples like this are what make me excited about "data."
>
>I'm wondering if anyone has other examples to share, or questions about 
>what type of data to review to address specific concerns.  Anyone??
>
>Cathay
>
>
>
>Cathay O. Reta
>Cornerstone Concepts
>6670 Southside Drive
>Los Angeles, CA 90022
>Ph: 323) 728-4302
>cathayreta at sbcglobal.net
>
>--- On Wed, 12/10/08, Vivian Copsey <copsey at allencc.edu> wrote:
>From: Vivian Copsey <copsey at allencc.edu>
>Subject: [Assessment 1501] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data
>To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 11:45 AM
>I agree wholeheartedly with your approach to reviewing data. In Kansas, we 
>are required to meet certain indicators of a quality adult education 
>program in order to receive funding. Our instructional staff realizes our 
>data reflects our progress toward these measures. We have an excellent 
>database used by all AEFLA funded programs across the State. The database 
>is available for review by the staff at the Kansas Board of Regents and by 
>any member of our staff. A representative for the adult education program 
>does a yearly on-site visit  to review files for accuracy.
>
>I am the only one who enters data. Any incorrect data becomes my 
>responsibility. At our monthly staff meetings, all data is compared to the 
>student's file for accuracy. Because we a very small, rural program (118 
>participants with 12 hours or more in fiscal year 2008), I am able to 
>continually review data on a weekly basis. Reports are printed out weekly 
>and compared with what goals we projected, building from previous years.
>
>Our staff meetings consist of two full time instructors, one part time 
>instructor, one part time administrative staff and one full time 
>administrative staff. Because we work very closely as a team, we look at 
>the data for the whole program. If there are deficits in any area, we 
>began to look at ways for improvement. Staff members are helpful to one 
>another in giving suggestions.
>
>Overall, when our staff members receive a report, they are very interested 
>in our outcomes. Sometimes there is no awareness of progress or lack of 
>progress until it is seen on paper. The results don't carry any negative 
>connotations but a desire for improvement.
>
>Vivian Copsey
>Coordinator Adult Education
>Allen Community College
>1801 N. Cottonwood
>Iola, KS 66749
>620.365.5116 x250
>
>At 08:35 AM 12/10/2008 -0500, you wrote:
>Having staff have buy-in to looking at and using data can be a challenge but
>if programs make the effort to make this a part of what they do, it will
>become institutionalized over time.
>One way to begin to look at data is to bring some data to a staff meeting.
>Do an activity where everyone gets a chance to look at the data and see what
>stands out to them.  Then go around the room and let each person say what
>stands out.  (Include ALL staff in this- teachers, administrators, support
>personnel, volunteers).  Make a list of the things that stand out and then
>have a discussion about the different things.  It could be that people
>notice something really good or maybe an area of needed improvement.
>We do this with our year end data every year.  We look at enrollment,
>retention, gains, goals achieved, demographics, numbers of ABE/GED/ESL
>students, inquiries, and more.  We usually find a few things to focus on for
>the next program year from this activity.  Some of our best ideas for
>program improvement have come from our receptionist and office manager, as
>they were looking at the data from a different perspective.
>
>We also started adding looking at data to all of our meetings.  We choose an
>area to look at and examine (this is done in our monthly program improvement
>meetings, teacher meetings, and other sub-groups of our staff's meetings).
>We always try to look at data before making program changes (if the data is
>available).  Teachers eventually have gotten used to looking at the data and
>seeing how it can inform their practice. They are more aware of their
>students' attendance and testing information and can be more helpful in
>helping the agency to make standards.
>
>If your staff are not used to looking at data, start small but keep it
>consistent.  Make it a habit and eventually it will be part of what they do.
>
>We do have great systems in PA where using data is something that is
>required at the state level.  Our program improvement plans that are
>required for state funding must be built on data analysis.  We have many
>teachers and administrators that do practitioner research.  However, this
>doesn't mean that using data for program improvement is always easy.  It is
>time consuming but without it we are making decisions based on intuition or
>hunches, which can have disastrous results.  Change is sometimes
>uncomfortable but all staff can see the value of using data once they learn
>how to look at it and how it can better inform their practice.
>
>********************************************
>Lori Keefer
>Program Director
>Greater Pittsburgh Literacy Council
>100 Sheridan Square 4th floor
>Pittsburgh PA 15206
>412.661.7323 ext 131
>fax: 412.661.3040
>lkeefer at gplc.org
><http://www.gplc.org/>www.gplc.org
>
>This email is intended solely for the use of the named addressees and is not
>meant for general distribution. If you are not the intended recipient,
>please report the error to the originator and delete the contents.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
>[<mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov>mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
>Behalf Of David Rosen
>Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:57 AM
>To: The Assessment Discussion List
>Subject: [Assessment 1494] Re: Using Data
>
>Drucie and others,
>
>Earlier in this discussion I asked for specific examples (narratives)
>of teachers systematically using program data to answer their
>questions. In the SEQUEL Monographs that you suggested we look at,
>found at
>
><http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org/pafamilyliteracy/cwp/view.asp>http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org/pafamilyliteracy/cwp/view.asp? 
>
>a=223&Q=145708&PM=1
>
>I see several good examples in these monographs. Thank you for
>calling them to our attention. I would like to mention one, in
>particular, the Seneca Highlands Intermediate Unit 9-"Cooperative
>Learning in Adult Education to Improve Attitudes and Skills in Math" .
>
>One of the biggest challenges our field faces is that very, very few
>(I think under 4%) of those in adult secondary education who say they
>want to go to college actually complete a degree. There are many
>reasons for this, but one of the biggest is that they cannot pass
>(usually required) college algebra.  This is because they did not get
>(positive)  exposure to algebra either in school or in an adult
>literacy education program. It is also because -- even if algebra is
>offered in their ASE program -- many have negative attitudes about,
>or fear of, learning algebra.  This study, carried out by program
>practitioners, looks at the use of cooperative learning as a strategy
>to help students overcome negative attitudes and increase knowledge
>of algebra during an eight-week program. The monograph is short, well-
>written, easy to read, and has some findings worth getting excited
>about. It would be great if there were other programs, where teachers
>care about this problem, that could replicate it. I wonder if any
>programs in Pennsylvania have already done that.
>
>It would be terrific if there were a U.S. national adult literacy
>research institute (such as NCSALL was) that would make funds
>available to support programs replicating important studies such as
>this, to help build a body of professional wisdom on the use of
>cooperative learning in adult numeracy and mathematics. This might
>provide a sufficient base of evidence to see if it is worthwhile
>later to do "gold standard" experimental research.
>
>Thanks, Drucie, and other leaders at all levels in Pennsylvania, who
>have for many years now supported programs using data for program
>decision-making. It looks like this may be paying off for
>Pennsylvania practitioners, as they learn what does and doesn't work
>for their students, and it is contributing to a literature of
>professional wisdom* so necessary in our field.
>
>David J. Rosen
>djrosen at theworld.com
>
>* For a dialogue about professional wisdom (including a definition)
>with John Comings, former Director of the U.S. National Center for
>the Study of Adult learning and Literacy,  see: <http://>http://
>wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Professional_Wisdom
>
>
>
>
>On Dec 9, 2008, at 11:23 AM, Drucilla Weirauch wrote:
>
> > In Pennsylvania we have a statewide program improvement initiative
> > that uses a specific Practitioner Action Research (PAR) model. Each
> > program chooses its own area of inquiry, based on its data. These
> > data may be hard data (scores, hours, enrollment numbers, etc.) or
> > other data, based on our Indicators of Program Quality (for example,
> > the quality of the adult education classroom environment or depth of
> > partnerships). Last year, there were 61 projects conducted by PA
> > Family Literacy sites. Topics ranged from increasing enrollment or
> > retention hours, implementing scientifically-based reading research
> > in the adult classroom, improving children's oral receptive
> > vocabulary, to increasing referrals from partners. In the spring we
> > hosted regional poster shows where programs showcased their projects
> > and results. Each program also submitted a monograph that detailed
> > their question and background to it (the data), the interventions,
> > data sources, results, reflections, and implications for the field.
> >
> > Monographs can be found at our website
> > <http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org.%20/>www.pafamilyliteracy.org. Left 
> side, click on SEQUAL project, then
> > Monographs.
> >
> > The website also includes the PAR handbook that helped the programs
> > identify a problem based on data, intervention,  choose best data
> > sources, etc.
> >
> > I evaluated the process to ascertain practitioners' perceptions of
> > the inaugural year of the intentional, systematic PAR process. While
> > it added a layer of work, most felt that it empowered them as
> > practitioners and gave their program "teeth." What was also important
> > is that this allowed them to show highlights of their program and
> > program improvement that mere data do not always capture (e.g. data
> > reported to the state and feds.) Programs used data to inform their
> > question and chart their success. Analyzing and reflecting on the
> > data made it more than mere numbers. This evaluation report is also
> > on the website. It includes a summary of the outcomes from the
> > projects and the perceptions of the participants on the research
> > process.
> >
> > Drucie Weirauch
> > Penn State University
> > Goodling Institute for Research in Family Literacy
> >
> > -------------------------------
> > National Institute for Literacy
> > Assessment mailing list
> > Assessment at nifl.gov
> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> > 
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>
>
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>
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From cathayreta at sbcglobal.net  Thu Dec 11 13:16:33 2008
From: cathayreta at sbcglobal.net (Cathay Reta)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:16:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Assessment 1515] Re: Testing and Managed Enrollment
In-Reply-To: <076501c95bb3$d4b253a0$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <177238.87048.qm@web82702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Marie and all,
?
I also thought it was interesting to see how many programs identified as "model programs" had gone to managed enrollment; although many still keep an open entry option on a limited basis when they feel it?necessary.? This discovery was not something we were looking for when we went to visit the programs; it was an interesting surprise.
?
An interesting example coming up in the next module of the training is the Cornerstones Career Learning Center in South Dakota.? Once they adopted managed enrollment they found staff was no longer complaining as much about not having enough time!??. . . a nice by-product.? With the change, they also?began monthly half-day staff meetings which include reviewing data together, professional development and more.?
?
On another note,?setting student attendance policies can also be effective.??A?most impressive example is the Hawthorn Family Literacy Program in California.? When they established (and enforced) a student?attendance policy,?instead of losing numbers of students (which is what people cautioned them would happen), it increased their numbers.??With students attending more?regularly, they made better gains, and the word got out:? "You will really learn in this program."? They had to set up waiting lists and there is very little?student attrition (which means students are around long enough to post test).???Did I get that right, Donielle????

Cathay O. Reta
Cornerstone Concepts
cathayreta at sbcglobal.net

--- On Thu, 12/11/08, Marie Cora <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> wrote:

From: Marie Cora <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
Subject: [Assessment 1511] Re: Testing and Managed Enrollment
To: "'The Assessment Discussion List'" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 9:13 AM








Hi all,
?
This thread is interesting to me.? If you look at the focus areas in the first module of the initiative (see Recommended Preparations for the Discussion at http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/08data.html) you will see that a number of these areas speak either directly or indirectly to the exchanges below by Barbara, Phil and Nancy.? They focus on things that would affect pre and post testing, student follow-up, achievement of goals, and the like.? Managed enrollment also came up during out work with Module 2 as well.
?
One of the things that Cathay and I found in identifying programs that employed successful practices was a deliberate move away from open-enrollment toward managed enrollment.? The consequences of such a move completely affected important items like student testing, recruitment and retention, even staff retention, in very positive ways.? It?s a layer of accountability that is the responsibility first of the student and therefore can change the dynamic of the program.
?
Cathay ? do you have any comments about managed enrollment and its positive affects on the program?? Vivian, Donielle, and Lori ? any thoughts here on open versus managed enrollment?
?
Everyone ? your thoughts?
?
Marie
?
?
?
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Nancy R Faux/AC/VCU
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:33 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1509] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data
?

Phil, 

Your statistics on Managed Enrollment (ME) are very encouraging. ?I am going to save your email to use it later on when speaking with programs that are resistant to ME. 

I also find it insightful that your courses are only 7-8 weeks. ?About how many hours of instruction per week would there be? ?Do the students have enough hours to qualify for a post-test? 

Nancy 

*********************************************************
Nancy R. Faux
ESOL Specialist
Virginia Adult Learning Resource Center
Virginia Commonwealth University
3600 W. Broad Street, Suite 669
Richmond, VA 23230-4930
nfaux at vcu.edu
http://www.valrc.org
1-800-237-0178 






"Anderson, Philip" <Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org> 
Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
12/11/2008 10:31 AM 




Please respond to
The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>






To

<barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu>, "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov> 


cc

?


Subject

[Assessment 1508] Re: [BULK] ? ?Getting staff used to using data
?




?

?




Barbara, 
? 
When you say you get 60%, do you mean that you get 60% of the students to take a post-test, or that you get 60% of the students to pass to a higher level when they post-test? 
? 
Either way, compared to the numbers we see in Florida, that is great!? We see less than 50% of the students take a post-test, and, depending on the level, we usually see about 25-30% of the total number of enrolled students that pass to a higher level.? However, when students do take a post-test, we see that about 50% of these students actually pass to a higher level. ?Programs in Florida use primarily the CASAS Life and Work series for ESOL students.? The other tests that our programs use are the BEST Plus and BEST Literacy.? 
? 
The message we are trying to get out is that programs need to find ways to get students to stay in class long enough to post-test.? If a few more percentage points of the students would ?persist? until they post-test, the data would show much higher rates of students passing to higher levels.? Programs will show much stronger results if only they can hone in on ?retaining? students! 
? 
Florida has had several local programs begin to implement managed enrollment in their ESOL programs, and the results are astoundingly high!? Managed Enrollment (ME) programs consistently see 80-90% of students stay long enough to post-test.? And of those who post-test, 70-80% pass to a higher level. 
? 
Miami Dade school district adult ESOL program did a pilot of 7 sites with ME, and showed these types of numbers.? They called the ME classes ?Intensive English Academies.? ?Although the curriculum was the same, the length of the courses was shortened to 7-8 weeks, and after the first week the classes were closed to new students entering.? The teachers and students found they were free from the chaos of students coming and going so much, and were able to build on previous lessons better.? For more information about the ESOL Academies, visit www.floridaadultesol.org, or write to Dr. Beatriz Diaz, Adult ESOL Coordinator, at bdiaz at dadeschools.net. ? 
? 
Phil 
(850) 245-9450 
?




From: Barbara Jacala [mailto:barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:00 PM
To: cathayreta at sbcglobal.net; 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1505] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data 
? 
Hello. I am a latecomer to this discussion and I hope not too late to get feedback from experienced practitioners. I am the program specialist for adult education at Guam Community College. The difficulty we encounter is in raising the level of our paired tests (pre and post). I am getting only about 60%. Is this average for this population? How are others encouraging students to take the post before leaving? Or how are they making sure that everyone is post tested? What strategies have you put in place? 
? 
Barbara Jacala 
Guam Community College 
Adult Education Program Specialist 
POB 23069 GMF, GU 96931 
671-735-5584 
barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu 
? 
?




From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Cathay Reta
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:29 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1503] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data 
? 




Hello, 
? 
As someone previously mentioned, I think it is helpful to see that data is more than numbers. ?It also includes information drawn from surveys, focus groups, interviews, etc. ?I am reminded of Project Learn in Akron, Ohio. ?Their reports showed that 
? 
?"Students functioning between the 5.0 and 8.9 grade level equivalent attended for an average of 35 hours for the program year while literacy students averaged 55 hours, GED students averaged 42 hours, and ESOL students averaged 65 hours." ? 
? 
So they gathered more data by talking with students in the pre-GED level and found that they did not feel comfortable going from their student orientation into a classroom where the instructor and students already knew each other. ?Based on that, they re-arranged class schedules to give instructors a half hour to meet with new students before the start of class. ? That made a difference evidenced by the next year's report -- the average hours of attendance for those students increased to 52 hours. ? 
? 
I think examples like this are what make me excited about "data." 
? 
I'm wondering if anyone has other examples to share, or questions about what type of data to review to address specific concerns. ?Anyone?? 
? 
Cathay 
? 


Cathay O. Reta
Cornerstone Concepts
6670 Southside Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90022
Ph: 323) 728-4302
cathayreta at sbcglobal.net

--- On Wed, 12/10/08, Vivian Copsey <copsey at allencc.edu> wrote: 
From: Vivian Copsey <copsey at allencc.edu>
Subject: [Assessment 1501] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 11:45 AM 
I agree wholeheartedly with your approach to reviewing data. In Kansas, we are required to meet certain indicators of a quality adult education program in order to receive funding. Our instructional staff realizes our data reflects our progress toward these measures. We have an excellent database used by all AEFLA funded programs across the State. The database is available for review by the staff at the Kansas Board of Regents and by any member of our staff. A representative for the adult education program does a yearly on-site visit ?to review files for accuracy.

I am the only one who enters data. Any incorrect data becomes my responsibility. At our monthly staff meetings, all data is compared to the student's file for accuracy. Because we a very small, rural program (118 participants with 12 hours or more in fiscal year 2008), I am able to continually review data on a weekly basis. Reports are printed out weekly and compared with what goals we projected, building from previous years.

Our staff meetings consist of two full time instructors, one part time instructor, one part time administrative staff and one full time administrative staff. Because we work very closely as a team, we look at the data for the whole program. If there are deficits in any area, we began to look at ways for improvement. Staff members are helpful to one another in giving suggestions.

Overall, when our staff members receive a report, they are very interested in our outcomes. Sometimes there is no awareness of progress or lack of progress until it is seen on paper. The results don't carry any negative connotations but a desire for improvement.

Vivian Copsey
Coordinator Adult Education
Allen Community College
1801 N. Cottonwood
Iola, KS 66749
620.365.5116 x250

At 08:35 AM 12/10/2008 -0500, you wrote: 
Having staff have buy-in to looking at and using data can be a challenge but
if programs make the effort to make this a part of what they do, it will
become institutionalized over time. 
One way to begin to look at data is to bring some data to a staff meeting.
Do an activity where everyone gets a chance to look at the data and see what
stands out to them. ?Then go around the room and let each person say what
stands out. ?(Include ALL staff in this- teachers, administrators, support
personnel, volunteers). ?Make a list of the things that stand out and then
have a discussion about the different things. ?It could be that people
notice something really good or maybe an area of needed improvement. ?
We do this with our year end data every year. ?We look at enrollment,
retention, gains, goals achieved, demographics, numbers of ABE/GED/ESL
students, inquiries, and more. ?We usually find a few things to focus on for
the next program year from this activity. ?Some of our best ideas for
program improvement have come from our receptionist and office manager, as
they were looking at the data from a different perspective.

We also started adding looking at data to all of our meetings. ?We choose an
area to look at and examine (this is done in our monthly program improvement
meetings, teacher meetings, and other sub-groups of our staff's meetings).
We always try to look at data before making program changes (if the data is
available). ?Teachers eventually have gotten used to looking at the data and
seeing how it can inform their practice. They are more aware of their
students' attendance and testing information and can be more helpful in
helping the agency to make standards. 

If your staff are not used to looking at data, start small but keep it
consistent. ?Make it a habit and eventually it will be part of what they do.

We do have great systems in PA where using data is something that is
required at the state level. ?Our program improvement plans that are
required for state funding must be built on data analysis. ?We have many
teachers and administrators that do practitioner research. ?However, this
doesn't mean that using data for program improvement is always easy. ?It is
time consuming but without it we are making decisions based on intuition or
hunches, which can have disastrous results. ?Change is sometimes
uncomfortable but all staff can see the value of using data once they learn
how to look at it and how it can better inform their practice.

********************************************
Lori Keefer
Program Director
Greater Pittsburgh Literacy Council
100 Sheridan Square 4th floor
Pittsburgh PA 15206
412.661.7323 ext 131
fax: 412.661.3040
lkeefer at gplc.org
www.gplc.org

This email is intended solely for the use of the named addressees and is not
meant for general distribution. If you are not the intended recipient,
please report the error to the originator and delete the contents.

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of David Rosen
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:57 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1494] Re: Using Data

Drucie and others,

Earlier in this discussion I asked for specific examples (narratives) ?
of teachers systematically using program data to answer their ?
questions. In the SEQUEL Monographs that you suggested we look at, ?
found at

http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org/pafamilyliteracy/cwp/view.asp? 
a=223&Q=145708&PM=1

I see several good examples in these monographs. Thank you for ?
calling them to our attention. I would like to mention one, in ?
particular, the Seneca Highlands Intermediate Unit 9-"Cooperative ?
Learning in Adult Education to Improve Attitudes and Skills in Math" .

One of the biggest challenges our field faces is that very, very few ?
(I think under 4%) of those in adult secondary education who say they ?
want to go to college actually complete a degree. There are many ?
reasons for this, but one of the biggest is that they cannot pass ?
(usually required) college algebra. ?This is because they did not get ?
(positive) ?exposure to algebra either in school or in an adult ?
literacy education program. It is also because -- even if algebra is ?
offered in their ASE program -- many have negative attitudes about, ?
or fear of, learning algebra. ?This study, carried out by program ?
practitioners, looks at the use of cooperative learning as a strategy ?
to help students overcome negative attitudes and increase knowledge ?
of algebra during an eight-week program. The monograph is short, well- 
written, easy to read, and has some findings worth getting excited ?
about. It would be great if there were other programs, where teachers ?
care about this problem, that could replicate it. I wonder if any ?
programs in Pennsylvania have already done that.

It would be terrific if there were a U.S. national adult literacy ?
research institute (such as NCSALL was) that would make funds ?
available to support programs replicating important studies such as ?
this, to help build a body of professional wisdom on the use of ?
cooperative learning in adult numeracy and mathematics. This might ?
provide a sufficient base of evidence to see if it is worthwhile ?
later to do "gold standard" experimental research.

Thanks, Drucie, and other leaders at all levels in Pennsylvania, who ?
have for many years now supported programs using data for program ?
decision-making. It looks like this may be paying off for ?
Pennsylvania practitioners, as they learn what does and doesn't work ?
for their students, and it is contributing to a literature of ?
professional wisdom* so necessary in our field.

David J. Rosen
djrosen at theworld.com

* For a dialogue about professional wisdom (including a definition) ?
with John Comings, former Director of the U.S. National Center for ?
the Study of Adult learning and Literacy, ?see: http:// 
wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Professional_Wisdom




On Dec 9, 2008, at 11:23 AM, Drucilla Weirauch wrote:

> In Pennsylvania we have a statewide program improvement initiative
> that uses a specific Practitioner Action Research (PAR) model. Each
> program chooses its own area of inquiry, based on its data. These
> data may be hard data (scores, hours, enrollment numbers, etc.) or
> other data, based on our Indicators of Program Quality (for example,
> the quality of the adult education classroom environment or depth of
> partnerships). Last year, there were 61 projects conducted by PA
> Family Literacy sites. Topics ranged from increasing enrollment or
> retention hours, implementing scientifically-based reading research
> in the adult classroom, improving children's oral receptive
> vocabulary, to increasing referrals from partners. In the spring we
> hosted regional poster shows where programs showcased their projects
> and results. Each program also submitted a monograph that detailed
> their question and background to it (the data), the interventions,
> data sources, results, reflections, and implications for the field.
>
> Monographs can be found at our website
> www.pafamilyliteracy.org. Left side, click on SEQUAL project, then ?
> Monographs.
>
> The website also includes the PAR handbook that helped the programs
> identify a problem based on data, intervention, ?choose best data ?
> sources, etc.
>
> I evaluated the process to ascertain practitioners' perceptions of
> the inaugural year of the intentional, systematic PAR process. While
> it added a layer of work, most felt that it empowered them as
> practitioners and gave their program "teeth." What was also important
> is that this allowed them to show highlights of their program and
> program improvement that mere data do not always capture (e.g. data
> reported to the state and feds.) Programs used data to inform their
> question and chart their success. Analyzing and reflecting on the
> data made it more than mere numbers. This evaluation report is also
> on the website. It includes a summary of the outcomes from the
> projects and the perceptions of the participants on the research ?
> process.
>
> Drucie Weirauch
> Penn State University
> Goodling Institute for Research in Family Literacy
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to ?
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to djrosen at theworld.com






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? 
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From nfaux at vcu.edu  Thu Dec 11 14:08:56 2008
From: nfaux at vcu.edu (Nancy R Faux/AC/VCU)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:08:56 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1516] Re: Testing and Managed Enrollment
In-Reply-To: <177238.87048.qm@web82702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <OF5BC2E8D7.5DC5C62F-ON8525751C.0069031A-8525751C.0069280E@vcu.edu>

Again, this is a very interesting post and gives substantial evidence to 
support managed enrollment.  I especially liked that teachers had more 
time for professional development and working together to improve the 
program.

*********************************************************
Nancy R. Faux
ESOL Specialist
Virginia Adult Learning Resource Center
Virginia Commonwealth University
3600 W. Broad Street, Suite 669
Richmond, VA 23230-4930
nfaux at vcu.edu
http://www.valrc.org
1-800-237-0178



Cathay Reta <cathayreta at sbcglobal.net> 
Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
12/11/2008 01:59 PM
Please respond to
cathayreta at sbcglobal.net; Please respond to
The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>


To
The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
cc

Subject
[Assessment 1515] Re: Testing and Managed Enrollment







Marie and all,
 
I also thought it was interesting to see how many programs identified as 
"model programs" had gone to managed enrollment; although many still keep 
an open entry option on a limited basis when they feel it necessary.  This 
discovery was not something we were looking for when we went to visit the 
programs; it was an interesting surprise.
 
An interesting example coming up in the next module of the training is the 
Cornerstones Career Learning Center in South Dakota.  Once they adopted 
managed enrollment they found staff was no longer complaining as much 
about not having enough time!  . . . a nice by-product.  With the change, 
they also began monthly half-day staff meetings which include reviewing 
data together, professional development and more. 
 
On another note, setting student attendance policies can also be 
effective.  A most impressive example is the Hawthorn Family Literacy 
Program in California.  When they established (and enforced) a student 
attendance policy, instead of losing numbers of students (which is what 
people cautioned them would happen), it increased their numbers.  With 
students attending more regularly, they made better gains, and the word 
got out:  "You will really learn in this program."  They had to set up 
waiting lists and there is very little student attrition (which means 
students are around long enough to post test).   Did I get that right, 
Donielle? 

Cathay O. Reta
Cornerstone Concepts
cathayreta at sbcglobal.net

--- On Thu, 12/11/08, Marie Cora <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> wrote:
From: Marie Cora <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
Subject: [Assessment 1511] Re: Testing and Managed Enrollment
To: "'The Assessment Discussion List'" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 9:13 AM

Hi all,
 
This thread is interesting to me.  If you look at the focus areas in the 
first module of the initiative (see Recommended Preparations for the 
Discussion at http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/08data.html
) you will see that a number of these areas speak either directly or 
indirectly to the exchanges below by Barbara, Phil and Nancy.  They focus 
on things that would affect pre and post testing, student follow-up, 
achievement of goals, and the like.  Managed enrollment also came up 
during out work with Module 2 as well. 
  
One of the things that Cathay and I found in identifying programs that 
employed successful practices was a deliberate move away from 
open-enrollment toward managed enrollment.  The consequences of such a 
move completely affected important items like student testing, recruitment 
and retention, even staff retention, in very positive ways.  It?s a layer 
of accountability that is the responsibility first of the student and 
therefore can change the dynamic of the program. 
  
Cathay ? do you have any comments about managed enrollment and its 
positive affects on the program?  Vivian, Donielle, and Lori ? any 
thoughts here on open versus managed enrollment? 
  
Everyone ? your thoughts? 
  
Marie 
  
  
  
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On 
Behalf Of Nancy R Faux/AC/VCU
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:33 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1509] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data 
  

Phil, 

Your statistics on Managed Enrollment (ME) are very encouraging.  I am 
going to save your email to use it later on when speaking with programs 
that are resistant to ME. 

I also find it insightful that your courses are only 7-8 weeks.  About how 
many hours of instruction per week would there be?  Do the students have 
enough hours to qualify for a post-test? 

Nancy 

*********************************************************
Nancy R. Faux
ESOL Specialist
Virginia Adult Learning Resource Center
Virginia Commonwealth University
3600 W. Broad Street, Suite 669
Richmond, VA 23230-4930
nfaux at vcu.edu
http://www.valrc.org
1-800-237-0178 


"Anderson, Philip" <Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org> 
Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
12/11/2008 10:31 AM 


Please respond to
The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>



To
<barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu>, "The Assessment Discussion List" 
<assessment at nifl.gov> 
cc
 
Subject
[Assessment 1508] Re: [BULK]    Getting staff used to using data
  

 
 




Barbara, 
  
When you say you get 60%, do you mean that you get 60% of the students to 
take a post-test, or that you get 60% of the students to pass to a higher 
level when they post-test? 
  
Either way, compared to the numbers we see in Florida, that is great!  We 
see less than 50% of the students take a post-test, and, depending on the 
level, we usually see about 25-30% of the total number of enrolled 
students that pass to a higher level.  However, when students do take a 
post-test, we see that about 50% of these students actually pass to a 
higher level.  Programs in Florida use primarily the CASAS Life and Work 
series for ESOL students.  The other tests that our programs use are the 
BEST Plus and BEST Literacy. 
  
The message we are trying to get out is that programs need to find ways to 
get students to stay in class long enough to post-test.  If a few more 
percentage points of the students would ?persist? until they post-test, 
the data would show much higher rates of students passing to higher 
levels.  Programs will show much stronger results if only they can hone in 
on ?retaining? students! 
  
Florida has had several local programs begin to implement managed 
enrollment in their ESOL programs, and the results are astoundingly high! 
Managed Enrollment (ME) programs consistently see 80-90% of students stay 
long enough to post-test.  And of those who post-test, 70-80% pass to a 
higher level. 
  
Miami Dade school district adult ESOL program did a pilot of 7 sites with 
ME, and showed these types of numbers.  They called the ME classes 
?Intensive English Academies.?  Although the curriculum was the same, the 
length of the courses was shortened to 7-8 weeks, and after the first week 
the classes were closed to new students entering.  The teachers and 
students found they were free from the chaos of students coming and going 
so much, and were able to build on previous lessons better.  For more 
information about the ESOL Academies, visit www.floridaadultesol.org, or 
write to Dr. Beatriz Diaz, Adult ESOL Coordinator, at 
bdiaz at dadeschools.net.   
  
Phil 
(850) 245-9450 
  


From: Barbara Jacala [mailto:barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:00 PM
To: cathayreta at sbcglobal.net; 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1505] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data 
  
Hello. I am a latecomer to this discussion and I hope not too late to get 
feedback from experienced practitioners. I am the program specialist for 
adult education at Guam Community College. The difficulty we encounter is 
in raising the level of our paired tests (pre and post). I am getting only 
about 60%. Is this average for this population? How are others encouraging 
students to take the post before leaving? Or how are they making sure that 
everyone is post tested? What strategies have you put in place? 
  
Barbara Jacala 
Guam Community College 
Adult Education Program Specialist 
POB 23069 GMF, GU 96931 
671-735-5584 
barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu 
  
  


From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On 
Behalf Of Cathay Reta
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:29 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1503] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data 
 

Hello, 
 
As someone previously mentioned, I think it is helpful to see that data is 
more than numbers.  It also includes information drawn from surveys, focus 
groups, interviews, etc.  I am reminded of Project Learn in Akron, Ohio. 
Their reports showed that 
 
 "Students functioning between the 5.0 and 8.9 grade level equivalent 
attended for an average of 35 hours for the program year while literacy 
students averaged 55 hours, GED students averaged 42 hours, and ESOL 
students averaged 65 hours." 
 
So they gathered more data by talking with students in the pre-GED level 
and found that they did not feel comfortable going from their student 
orientation into a classroom where the instructor and students already 
knew each other.  Based on that, they re-arranged class schedules to give 
instructors a half hour to meet with new students before the start of 
class.   That made a difference evidenced by the next year's report -- the 
average hours of attendance for those students increased to 52 hours. 
 
I think examples like this are what make me excited about "data." 
 
I'm wondering if anyone has other examples to share, or questions about 
what type of data to review to address specific concerns.  Anyone?? 
 
Cathay 
 


Cathay O. Reta
Cornerstone Concepts
6670 Southside Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90022
Ph: 323) 728-4302
cathayreta at sbcglobal.net

--- On Wed, 12/10/08, Vivian Copsey <copsey at allencc.edu> wrote: 
From: Vivian Copsey <copsey at allencc.edu>
Subject: [Assessment 1501] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 11:45 AM 
I agree wholeheartedly with your approach to reviewing data. In Kansas, we 
are required to meet certain indicators of a quality adult education 
program in order to receive funding. Our instructional staff realizes our 
data reflects our progress toward these measures. We have an excellent 
database used by all AEFLA funded programs across the State. The database 
is available for review by the staff at the Kansas Board of Regents and by 
any member of our staff. A representative for the adult education program 
does a yearly on-site visit  to review files for accuracy.

I am the only one who enters data. Any incorrect data becomes my 
responsibility. At our monthly staff meetings, all data is compared to the 
student's file for accuracy. Because we a very small, rural program (118 
participants with 12 hours or more in fiscal year 2008), I am able to 
continually review data on a weekly basis. Reports are printed out weekly 
and compared with what goals we projected, building from previous years.

Our staff meetings consist of two full time instructors, one part time 
instructor, one part time administrative staff and one full time 
administrative staff. Because we work very closely as a team, we look at 
the data for the whole program. If there are deficits in any area, we 
began to look at ways for improvement. Staff members are helpful to one 
another in giving suggestions.

Overall, when our staff members receive a report, they are very interested 
in our outcomes. Sometimes there is no awareness of progress or lack of 
progress until it is seen on paper. The results don't carry any negative 
connotations but a desire for improvement.

Vivian Copsey
Coordinator Adult Education
Allen Community College
1801 N. Cottonwood
Iola, KS 66749
620.365.5116 x250

At 08:35 AM 12/10/2008 -0500, you wrote: 
Having staff have buy-in to looking at and using data can be a challenge 
but
if programs make the effort to make this a part of what they do, it will
become institutionalized over time. 
One way to begin to look at data is to bring some data to a staff meeting.
Do an activity where everyone gets a chance to look at the data and see 
what
stands out to them.  Then go around the room and let each person say what
stands out.  (Include ALL staff in this- teachers, administrators, support
personnel, volunteers).  Make a list of the things that stand out and then
have a discussion about the different things.  It could be that people
notice something really good or maybe an area of needed improvement. 
We do this with our year end data every year.  We look at enrollment,
retention, gains, goals achieved, demographics, numbers of ABE/GED/ESL
students, inquiries, and more.  We usually find a few things to focus on 
for
the next program year from this activity.  Some of our best ideas for
program improvement have come from our receptionist and office manager, as
they were looking at the data from a different perspective.

We also started adding looking at data to all of our meetings.  We choose 
an
area to look at and examine (this is done in our monthly program 
improvement
meetings, teacher meetings, and other sub-groups of our staff's meetings).
We always try to look at data before making program changes (if the data 
is
available).  Teachers eventually have gotten used to looking at the data 
and
seeing how it can inform their practice. They are more aware of their
students' attendance and testing information and can be more helpful in
helping the agency to make standards. 

If your staff are not used to looking at data, start small but keep it
consistent.  Make it a habit and eventually it will be part of what they 
do.

We do have great systems in PA where using data is something that is
required at the state level.  Our program improvement plans that are
required for state funding must be built on data analysis.  We have many
teachers and administrators that do practitioner research.  However, this
doesn't mean that using data for program improvement is always easy.  It 
is
time consuming but without it we are making decisions based on intuition 
or
hunches, which can have disastrous results.  Change is sometimes
uncomfortable but all staff can see the value of using data once they 
learn
how to look at it and how it can better inform their practice.

********************************************
Lori Keefer
Program Director
Greater Pittsburgh Literacy Council
100 Sheridan Square 4th floor
Pittsburgh PA 15206
412.661.7323 ext 131
fax: 412.661.3040
lkeefer at gplc.org
www.gplc.org

This email is intended solely for the use of the named addressees and is 
not
meant for general distribution. If you are not the intended recipient,
please report the error to the originator and delete the contents.

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of David Rosen
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:57 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1494] Re: Using Data

Drucie and others,

Earlier in this discussion I asked for specific examples (narratives) 
of teachers systematically using program data to answer their 
questions. In the SEQUEL Monographs that you suggested we look at, 
found at

http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org/pafamilyliteracy/cwp/view.asp? 
a=223&Q=145708&PM=1

I see several good examples in these monographs. Thank you for 
calling them to our attention. I would like to mention one, in 
particular, the Seneca Highlands Intermediate Unit 9-"Cooperative 
Learning in Adult Education to Improve Attitudes and Skills in Math" .

One of the biggest challenges our field faces is that very, very few 
(I think under 4%) of those in adult secondary education who say they 
want to go to college actually complete a degree. There are many 
reasons for this, but one of the biggest is that they cannot pass 
(usually required) college algebra.  This is because they did not get 
(positive)  exposure to algebra either in school or in an adult 
literacy education program. It is also because -- even if algebra is 
offered in their ASE program -- many have negative attitudes about, 
or fear of, learning algebra.  This study, carried out by program 
practitioners, looks at the use of cooperative learning as a strategy 
to help students overcome negative attitudes and increase knowledge 
of algebra during an eight-week program. The monograph is short, well- 
written, easy to read, and has some findings worth getting excited 
about. It would be great if there were other programs, where teachers 
care about this problem, that could replicate it. I wonder if any 
programs in Pennsylvania have already done that.

It would be terrific if there were a U.S. national adult literacy 
research institute (such as NCSALL was) that would make funds 
available to support programs replicating important studies such as 
this, to help build a body of professional wisdom on the use of 
cooperative learning in adult numeracy and mathematics. This might 
provide a sufficient base of evidence to see if it is worthwhile 
later to do "gold standard" experimental research.

Thanks, Drucie, and other leaders at all levels in Pennsylvania, who 
have for many years now supported programs using data for program 
decision-making. It looks like this may be paying off for 
Pennsylvania practitioners, as they learn what does and doesn't work 
for their students, and it is contributing to a literature of 
professional wisdom* so necessary in our field.

David J. Rosen
djrosen at theworld.com

* For a dialogue about professional wisdom (including a definition) 
with John Comings, former Director of the U.S. National Center for 
the Study of Adult learning and Literacy,  see: http:// 
wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Professional_Wisdom




On Dec 9, 2008, at 11:23 AM, Drucilla Weirauch wrote:

> In Pennsylvania we have a statewide program improvement initiative
> that uses a specific Practitioner Action Research (PAR) model. Each
> program chooses its own area of inquiry, based on its data. These
> data may be hard data (scores, hours, enrollment numbers, etc.) or
> other data, based on our Indicators of Program Quality (for example,
> the quality of the adult education classroom environment or depth of
> partnerships). Last year, there were 61 projects conducted by PA
> Family Literacy sites. Topics ranged from increasing enrollment or
> retention hours, implementing scientifically-based reading research
> in the adult classroom, improving children's oral receptive
> vocabulary, to increasing referrals from partners. In the spring we
> hosted regional poster shows where programs showcased their projects
> and results. Each program also submitted a monograph that detailed
> their question and background to it (the data), the interventions,
> data sources, results, reflections, and implications for the field.
>
> Monographs can be found at our website
> www.pafamilyliteracy.org. Left side, click on SEQUAL project, then 
> Monographs.
>
> The website also includes the PAR handbook that helped the programs
> identify a problem based on data, intervention,  choose best data 
> sources, etc.
>
> I evaluated the process to ascertain practitioners' perceptions of
> the inaugural year of the intentional, systematic PAR process. While
> it added a layer of work, most felt that it empowered them as
> practitioners and gave their program "teeth." What was also important
> is that this allowed them to show highlights of their program and
> program improvement that mere data do not always capture (e.g. data
> reported to the state and feds.) Programs used data to inform their
> question and chart their success. Analyzing and reflecting on the
> data made it more than mere numbers. This evaluation report is also
> on the website. It includes a summary of the outcomes from the
> projects and the perceptions of the participants on the research 
> process.
>
> Drucie Weirauch
> Penn State University
> Goodling Institute for Research in Family Literacy
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to djrosen at theworld.com






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Email delivered to lkeefer at gplc.org


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Email delivered to copsey at allencc.edu 
  
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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
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Email delivered to cathayreta at sbcglobal.net

 -------------------------------
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Assessment mailing list
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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
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Email delivered to nfaux at vcu.edu
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Email delivered to cathayreta at sbcglobal.net

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From Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org  Thu Dec 11 14:09:33 2008
From: Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org (Anderson, Philip)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:09:33 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1517] Re: [BULK]    Getting staff used to using data
In-Reply-To: <OF9CB058E2.DE3B0194-ON8525751C.005AA725-8525751C.005AE509@vcu.edu>
Message-ID: <96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E1E24BB19@MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>

Nancy,

 

Your questions are good ones!  The schools that have implemented Managed
Enrollment (ME) primarily offer the ME classes in the daytime, and they
meet 4-5 times a week for 3 hours each day.  A minimum of 12 hours a
week is considered by most to be okay, but the best amount of time is 16
to 20 hours a week.  All the schools that have ME use the CASAS test,
and all classes meet for longer than the 70-100 hours recommend by CASAS
between the pre-test to post-test. 

 

The main reason the programs in Miami Dade school district chose to make
the courses 7-8 weeks (some are 9) in length was to facilitate
implementation of Florida's newly-revised Adult ESOL standards.  The
standards are organized around 7 life-skills topics, with anchor
standards for grammar at each of the six NRS educational functioning
levels.  While it is common knowledge that no teacher can cover all the
materials available in 7 life skills topics in 7-8-9 weeks, students can
recycle through the material until they spiral upward and on to other
levels.  The key seems to be that students and teachers are free from
the distraction of new students entering the class at all times.  I call
it getting out of the ESOL shuffle and getting on the ESOL shuttle.  ME
gives them the ability to build on the knowledge gained in the previous
class session. They don't have to review so often or to slow down for
those who are getting familiar with the teacher and the class.  It is
really amazing to see how much students can learn so quickly when they
are able to focus and not be distracted.  

 

Another factor is that in the first week (orientation), students are
prepped with a strong message of taking responsibility for their
learning.  Students also sign a contract that spells out their
commitment to not miss any classes and to stay for the duration of the
course.  The teachers show the students that they expect a lot of them,
and they make it really happen.

 

Phil

(850) 245-9450

________________________________

From: Nancy R Faux/AC/VCU [mailto:nfaux at vcu.edu] 
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:33 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1509] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data

 


Phil, 

Your statistics on Managed Enrollment (ME) are very encouraging.  I am
going to save your email to use it later on when speaking with programs
that are resistant to ME. 

I also find it insightful that your courses are only 7-8 weeks.  About
how many hours of instruction per week would there be?  Do the students
have enough hours to qualify for a post-test? 

Nancy 

*********************************************************
Nancy R. Faux
ESOL Specialist
Virginia Adult Learning Resource Center
Virginia Commonwealth University
3600 W. Broad Street, Suite 669
Richmond, VA 23230-4930
nfaux at vcu.edu
http://www.valrc.org
1-800-237-0178 <http://www.valrc.org/>  



"Anderson, Philip" <Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org> 
Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 

12/11/2008 10:31 AM 

Please respond to
The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>

To

<barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu>, "The Assessment Discussion List"
<assessment at nifl.gov> 

cc

 

Subject

[Assessment 1508] Re: [BULK]    Getting staff used to using data

 

 

 




Barbara, 
  
When you say you get 60%, do you mean that you get 60% of the students
to take a post-test, or that you get 60% of the students to pass to a
higher level when they post-test? 
  
Either way, compared to the numbers we see in Florida, that is great!
We see less than 50% of the students take a post-test, and, depending on
the level, we usually see about 25-30% of the total number of enrolled
students that pass to a higher level.  However, when students do take a
post-test, we see that about 50% of these students actually pass to a
higher level.  Programs in Florida use primarily the CASAS Life and Work
series for ESOL students.  The other tests that our programs use are the
BEST Plus and BEST Literacy.  
  
The message we are trying to get out is that programs need to find ways
to get students to stay in class long enough to post-test.  If a few
more percentage points of the students would "persist" until they
post-test, the data would show much higher rates of students passing to
higher levels.  Programs will show much stronger results if only they
can hone in on "retaining" students! 
  
Florida has had several local programs begin to implement managed
enrollment in their ESOL programs, and the results are astoundingly
high!  Managed Enrollment (ME) programs consistently see 80-90% of
students stay long enough to post-test.  And of those who post-test,
70-80% pass to a higher level. 
  
Miami Dade school district adult ESOL program did a pilot of 7 sites
with ME, and showed these types of numbers.  They called the ME classes
"Intensive English Academies."  Although the curriculum was the same,
the length of the courses was shortened to 7-8 weeks, and after the
first week the classes were closed to new students entering.  The
teachers and students found they were free from the chaos of students
coming and going so much, and were able to build on previous lessons
better.  For more information about the ESOL Academies, visit
www.floridaadultesol.org <http://www.floridaadultesol.org/> , or write
to Dr. Beatriz Diaz, Adult ESOL Coordinator, at bdiaz at dadeschools.net
<mailto:bdiaz at dadeschools.net> .   
  
Phil 
(850) 245-9450 

 

________________________________


From: Barbara Jacala [mailto:barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:00 PM
To: cathayreta at sbcglobal.net; 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1505] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data 
  
Hello. I am a latecomer to this discussion and I hope not too late to
get feedback from experienced practitioners. I am the program specialist
for adult education at Guam Community College. The difficulty we
encounter is in raising the level of our paired tests (pre and post). I
am getting only about 60%. Is this average for this population? How are
others encouraging students to take the post before leaving? Or how are
they making sure that everyone is post tested? What strategies have you
put in place? 
  
Barbara Jacala 
Guam Community College 
Adult Education Program Specialist 
POB 23069 GMF, GU 96931 
671-735-5584 
barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu 
  

 

________________________________


From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Cathay Reta
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:29 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1503] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data 
  

Hello, 
  
As someone previously mentioned, I think it is helpful to see that data
is more than numbers.  It also includes information drawn from surveys,
focus groups, interviews, etc.  I am reminded of Project Learn in Akron,
Ohio.  Their reports showed that 
  
 "Students functioning between the 5.0 and 8.9 grade level equivalent
attended for an average of 35 hours for the program year while literacy
students averaged 55 hours, GED students averaged 42 hours, and ESOL
students averaged 65 hours."   
  
So they gathered more data by talking with students in the pre-GED level
and found that they did not feel comfortable going from their student
orientation into a classroom where the instructor and students already
knew each other.  Based on that, they re-arranged class schedules to
give instructors a half hour to meet with new students before the start
of class.   That made a difference evidenced by the next year's report
-- the average hours of attendance for those students increased to 52
hours.   
  
I think examples like this are what make me excited about "data." 
  
I'm wondering if anyone has other examples to share, or questions about
what type of data to review to address specific concerns.  Anyone?? 
  
Cathay 
  


Cathay O. Reta
Cornerstone Concepts
6670 Southside Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90022
Ph: 323) 728-4302
cathayreta at sbcglobal.net

--- On Wed, 12/10/08, Vivian Copsey <copsey at allencc.edu> wrote: 
From: Vivian Copsey <copsey at allencc.edu>
Subject: [Assessment 1501] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 11:45 AM 
I agree wholeheartedly with your approach to reviewing data. In Kansas,
we are required to meet certain indicators of a quality adult education
program in order to receive funding. Our instructional staff realizes
our data reflects our progress toward these measures. We have an
excellent database used by all AEFLA funded programs across the State.
The database is available for review by the staff at the Kansas Board of
Regents and by any member of our staff. A representative for the adult
education program does a yearly on-site visit  to review files for
accuracy.

I am the only one who enters data. Any incorrect data becomes my
responsibility. At our monthly staff meetings, all data is compared to
the student's file for accuracy. Because we a very small, rural program
(118 participants with 12 hours or more in fiscal year 2008), I am able
to continually review data on a weekly basis. Reports are printed out
weekly and compared with what goals we projected, building from previous
years.

Our staff meetings consist of two full time instructors, one part time
instructor, one part time administrative staff and one full time
administrative staff. Because we work very closely as a team, we look at
the data for the whole program. If there are deficits in any area, we
began to look at ways for improvement. Staff members are helpful to one
another in giving suggestions.

Overall, when our staff members receive a report, they are very
interested in our outcomes. Sometimes there is no awareness of progress
or lack of progress until it is seen on paper. The results don't carry
any negative connotations but a desire for improvement.

Vivian Copsey
Coordinator Adult Education
Allen Community College
1801 N. Cottonwood
Iola, KS 66749
620.365.5116 x250

At 08:35 AM 12/10/2008 -0500, you wrote: 
Having staff have buy-in to looking at and using data can be a challenge
but
if programs make the effort to make this a part of what they do, it will
become institutionalized over time. 
One way to begin to look at data is to bring some data to a staff
meeting.
Do an activity where everyone gets a chance to look at the data and see
what
stands out to them.  Then go around the room and let each person say
what
stands out.  (Include ALL staff in this- teachers, administrators,
support
personnel, volunteers).  Make a list of the things that stand out and
then
have a discussion about the different things.  It could be that people
notice something really good or maybe an area of needed improvement.  
We do this with our year end data every year.  We look at enrollment,
retention, gains, goals achieved, demographics, numbers of ABE/GED/ESL
students, inquiries, and more.  We usually find a few things to focus on
for
the next program year from this activity.  Some of our best ideas for
program improvement have come from our receptionist and office manager,
as
they were looking at the data from a different perspective.

We also started adding looking at data to all of our meetings.  We
choose an
area to look at and examine (this is done in our monthly program
improvement
meetings, teacher meetings, and other sub-groups of our staff's
meetings).
We always try to look at data before making program changes (if the data
is
available).  Teachers eventually have gotten used to looking at the data
and
seeing how it can inform their practice. They are more aware of their
students' attendance and testing information and can be more helpful in
helping the agency to make standards. 

If your staff are not used to looking at data, start small but keep it
consistent.  Make it a habit and eventually it will be part of what they
do.

We do have great systems in PA where using data is something that is
required at the state level.  Our program improvement plans that are
required for state funding must be built on data analysis.  We have many
teachers and administrators that do practitioner research.  However,
this
doesn't mean that using data for program improvement is always easy.  It
is
time consuming but without it we are making decisions based on intuition
or
hunches, which can have disastrous results.  Change is sometimes
uncomfortable but all staff can see the value of using data once they
learn
how to look at it and how it can better inform their practice.

********************************************
Lori Keefer
Program Director
Greater Pittsburgh Literacy Council
100 Sheridan Square 4th floor
Pittsburgh PA 15206
412.661.7323 ext 131
fax: 412.661.3040
lkeefer at gplc.org
www.gplc.org <http://www.gplc.org/> 

This email is intended solely for the use of the named addressees and is
not
meant for general distribution. If you are not the intended recipient,
please report the error to the originator and delete the contents.

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On
Behalf Of David Rosen
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:57 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1494] Re: Using Data

Drucie and others,

Earlier in this discussion I asked for specific examples (narratives)  
of teachers systematically using program data to answer their  
questions. In the SEQUEL Monographs that you suggested we look at,  
found at

http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org/pafamilyliteracy/cwp/view.asp? 
a=223&Q=145708&PM=1

I see several good examples in these monographs. Thank you for  
calling them to our attention. I would like to mention one, in  
particular, the Seneca Highlands Intermediate Unit 9-"Cooperative  
Learning in Adult Education to Improve Attitudes and Skills in Math" .

One of the biggest challenges our field faces is that very, very few  
(I think under 4%) of those in adult secondary education who say they  
want to go to college actually complete a degree. There are many  
reasons for this, but one of the biggest is that they cannot pass  
(usually required) college algebra.  This is because they did not get  
(positive)  exposure to algebra either in school or in an adult  
literacy education program. It is also because -- even if algebra is  
offered in their ASE program -- many have negative attitudes about,  
or fear of, learning algebra.  This study, carried out by program  
practitioners, looks at the use of cooperative learning as a strategy  
to help students overcome negative attitudes and increase knowledge  
of algebra during an eight-week program. The monograph is short, well- 
written, easy to read, and has some findings worth getting excited  
about. It would be great if there were other programs, where teachers  
care about this problem, that could replicate it. I wonder if any  
programs in Pennsylvania have already done that.

It would be terrific if there were a U.S. national adult literacy  
research institute (such as NCSALL was) that would make funds  
available to support programs replicating important studies such as  
this, to help build a body of professional wisdom on the use of  
cooperative learning in adult numeracy and mathematics. This might  
provide a sufficient base of evidence to see if it is worthwhile  
later to do "gold standard" experimental research.

Thanks, Drucie, and other leaders at all levels in Pennsylvania, who  
have for many years now supported programs using data for program  
decision-making. It looks like this may be paying off for  
Pennsylvania practitioners, as they learn what does and doesn't work  
for their students, and it is contributing to a literature of  
professional wisdom* so necessary in our field.

David J. Rosen
djrosen at theworld.com

* For a dialogue about professional wisdom (including a definition)  
with John Comings, former Director of the U.S. National Center for  
the Study of Adult learning and Literacy,  see: http:// 
wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Professional_Wisdom




On Dec 9, 2008, at 11:23 AM, Drucilla Weirauch wrote:

> In Pennsylvania we have a statewide program improvement initiative
> that uses a specific Practitioner Action Research (PAR) model. Each
> program chooses its own area of inquiry, based on its data. These
> data may be hard data (scores, hours, enrollment numbers, etc.) or
> other data, based on our Indicators of Program Quality (for example,
> the quality of the adult education classroom environment or depth of
> partnerships). Last year, there were 61 projects conducted by PA
> Family Literacy sites. Topics ranged from increasing enrollment or
> retention hours, implementing scientifically-based reading research
> in the adult classroom, improving children's oral receptive
> vocabulary, to increasing referrals from partners. In the spring we
> hosted regional poster shows where programs showcased their projects
> and results. Each program also submitted a monograph that detailed
> their question and background to it (the data), the interventions,
> data sources, results, reflections, and implications for the field.
>
> Monographs can be found at our website
> www.pafamilyliteracy.org. <http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org.%20/> Left
side, click on SEQUAL project, then  
> Monographs.
>
> The website also includes the PAR handbook that helped the programs
> identify a problem based on data, intervention,  choose best data  
> sources, etc.
>
> I evaluated the process to ascertain practitioners' perceptions of
> the inaugural year of the intentional, systematic PAR process. While
> it added a layer of work, most felt that it empowered them as
> practitioners and gave their program "teeth." What was also important
> is that this allowed them to show highlights of their program and
> program improvement that mere data do not always capture (e.g. data
> reported to the state and feds.) Programs used data to inform their
> question and chart their success. Analyzing and reflecting on the
> data made it more than mere numbers. This evaluation report is also
> on the website. It includes a summary of the outcomes from the
> projects and the perceptions of the participants on the research  
> process.
>
> Drucie Weirauch
> Penn State University
> Goodling Institute for Research in Family Literacy
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to djrosen at theworld.com






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From nfaux at vcu.edu  Thu Dec 11 14:27:13 2008
From: nfaux at vcu.edu (Nancy R Faux/AC/VCU)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:27:13 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1518] Re: [BULK]    Getting staff used to using data
In-Reply-To: <96E135649F1AD048AA6FF8CBC598C23E1E24BB19@MAIL1.FLDOE.INT>
Message-ID: <OF525BE74F.189878C8-ON8525751C.006A7E40-8525751C.006AD49B@vcu.edu>

Thanks, Phil.

You have cited multiple reasons for ME.  Most learners (at least, ELL's) 
understand that going to school means having a start and closing date, 
attendance requirements, and consistency in classroom dynamics. And when 
the teachers can now concentrate on instruction and not having to 
continually orient new learners, everyone gains.

Nancy

*********************************************************
Nancy R. Faux
ESOL Specialist
Virginia Adult Learning Resource Center
Virginia Commonwealth University
3600 W. Broad Street, Suite 669
Richmond, VA 23230-4930
nfaux at vcu.edu
http://www.valrc.org
1-800-237-0178



"Anderson, Philip" <Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org> 
Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
12/11/2008 02:16 PM
Please respond to
The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>


To
"The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
cc

Subject
[Assessment 1517] Re: [BULK]    Getting staff used to using data






Nancy,
 
Your questions are good ones!  The schools that have implemented Managed 
Enrollment (ME) primarily offer the ME classes in the daytime, and they 
meet 4-5 times a week for 3 hours each day.  A minimum of 12 hours a week 
is considered by most to be okay, but the best amount of time is 16 to 20 
hours a week.  All the schools that have ME use the CASAS test, and all 
classes meet for longer than the 70-100 hours recommend by CASAS between 
the pre-test to post-test. 
 
The main reason the programs in Miami Dade school district chose to make 
the courses 7-8 weeks (some are 9) in length was to facilitate 
implementation of Florida?s newly-revised Adult ESOL standards.  The 
standards are organized around 7 life-skills topics, with anchor standards 
for grammar at each of the six NRS educational functioning levels.  While 
it is common knowledge that no teacher can cover all the materials 
available in 7 life skills topics in 7-8-9 weeks, students can recycle 
through the material until they spiral upward and on to other levels.  The 
key seems to be that students and teachers are free from the distraction 
of new students entering the class at all times.  I call it getting out of 
the ESOL shuffle and getting on the ESOL shuttle.  ME gives them the 
ability to build on the knowledge gained in the previous class session. 
They don?t have to review so often or to slow down for those who are 
getting familiar with the teacher and the class.  It is really amazing to 
see how much students can learn so quickly when they are able to focus and 
not be distracted. 
 
Another factor is that in the first week (orientation), students are 
prepped with a strong message of taking responsibility for their learning. 
 Students also sign a contract that spells out their commitment to not 
miss any classes and to stay for the duration of the course.  The teachers 
show the students that they expect a lot of them, and they make it really 
happen.
 
Phil
(850) 245-9450

From: Nancy R Faux/AC/VCU [mailto:nfaux at vcu.edu] 
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:33 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1509] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data
 

Phil, 

Your statistics on Managed Enrollment (ME) are very encouraging.  I am 
going to save your email to use it later on when speaking with programs 
that are resistant to ME. 

I also find it insightful that your courses are only 7-8 weeks.  About how 
many hours of instruction per week would there be?  Do the students have 
enough hours to qualify for a post-test? 

Nancy 

*********************************************************
Nancy R. Faux
ESOL Specialist
Virginia Adult Learning Resource Center
Virginia Commonwealth University
3600 W. Broad Street, Suite 669
Richmond, VA 23230-4930
nfaux at vcu.edu
http://www.valrc.org
1-800-237-0178 


"Anderson, Philip" <Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org> 
Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
12/11/2008 10:31 AM 


Please respond to
The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>



To
<barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu>, "The Assessment Discussion List" 
<assessment at nifl.gov> 
cc
 
Subject
[Assessment 1508] Re: [BULK]    Getting staff used to using data
 


 
 




Barbara, 
  
When you say you get 60%, do you mean that you get 60% of the students to 
take a post-test, or that you get 60% of the students to pass to a higher 
level when they post-test? 
  
Either way, compared to the numbers we see in Florida, that is great!  We 
see less than 50% of the students take a post-test, and, depending on the 
level, we usually see about 25-30% of the total number of enrolled 
students that pass to a higher level.  However, when students do take a 
post-test, we see that about 50% of these students actually pass to a 
higher level.  Programs in Florida use primarily the CASAS Life and Work 
series for ESOL students.  The other tests that our programs use are the 
BEST Plus and BEST Literacy. 
  
The message we are trying to get out is that programs need to find ways to 
get students to stay in class long enough to post-test.  If a few more 
percentage points of the students would ?persist? until they post-test, 
the data would show much higher rates of students passing to higher 
levels.  Programs will show much stronger results if only they can hone in 
on ?retaining? students! 
  
Florida has had several local programs begin to implement managed 
enrollment in their ESOL programs, and the results are astoundingly high! 
Managed Enrollment (ME) programs consistently see 80-90% of students stay 
long enough to post-test.  And of those who post-test, 70-80% pass to a 
higher level. 
  
Miami Dade school district adult ESOL program did a pilot of 7 sites with 
ME, and showed these types of numbers.  They called the ME classes 
?Intensive English Academies.?  Although the curriculum was the same, the 
length of the courses was shortened to 7-8 weeks, and after the first week 
the classes were closed to new students entering.  The teachers and 
students found they were free from the chaos of students coming and going 
so much, and were able to build on previous lessons better.  For more 
information about the ESOL Academies, visit www.floridaadultesol.org, or 
write to Dr. Beatriz Diaz, Adult ESOL Coordinator, at 
bdiaz at dadeschools.net.   
  
Phil 
(850) 245-9450 
 


From: Barbara Jacala [mailto:barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:00 PM
To: cathayreta at sbcglobal.net; 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1505] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data 
  
Hello. I am a latecomer to this discussion and I hope not too late to get 
feedback from experienced practitioners. I am the program specialist for 
adult education at Guam Community College. The difficulty we encounter is 
in raising the level of our paired tests (pre and post). I am getting only 
about 60%. Is this average for this population? How are others encouraging 
students to take the post before leaving? Or how are they making sure that 
everyone is post tested? What strategies have you put in place? 
  
Barbara Jacala 
Guam Community College 
Adult Education Program Specialist 
POB 23069 GMF, GU 96931 
671-735-5584 
barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu 
  
 


From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On 
Behalf Of Cathay Reta
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:29 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1503] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data 
 

Hello, 
 
As someone previously mentioned, I think it is helpful to see that data is 
more than numbers.  It also includes information drawn from surveys, focus 
groups, interviews, etc.  I am reminded of Project Learn in Akron, Ohio. 
Their reports showed that 
 
 "Students functioning between the 5.0 and 8.9 grade level equivalent 
attended for an average of 35 hours for the program year while literacy 
students averaged 55 hours, GED students averaged 42 hours, and ESOL 
students averaged 65 hours." 
 
So they gathered more data by talking with students in the pre-GED level 
and found that they did not feel comfortable going from their student 
orientation into a classroom where the instructor and students already 
knew each other.  Based on that, they re-arranged class schedules to give 
instructors a half hour to meet with new students before the start of 
class.   That made a difference evidenced by the next year's report -- the 
average hours of attendance for those students increased to 52 hours. 
 
I think examples like this are what make me excited about "data." 
 
I'm wondering if anyone has other examples to share, or questions about 
what type of data to review to address specific concerns.  Anyone?? 
 
Cathay 
 


Cathay O. Reta
Cornerstone Concepts
6670 Southside Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90022
Ph: 323) 728-4302
cathayreta at sbcglobal.net

--- On Wed, 12/10/08, Vivian Copsey <copsey at allencc.edu> wrote: 
From: Vivian Copsey <copsey at allencc.edu>
Subject: [Assessment 1501] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 11:45 AM 
I agree wholeheartedly with your approach to reviewing data. In Kansas, we 
are required to meet certain indicators of a quality adult education 
program in order to receive funding. Our instructional staff realizes our 
data reflects our progress toward these measures. We have an excellent 
database used by all AEFLA funded programs across the State. The database 
is available for review by the staff at the Kansas Board of Regents and by 
any member of our staff. A representative for the adult education program 
does a yearly on-site visit  to review files for accuracy.

I am the only one who enters data. Any incorrect data becomes my 
responsibility. At our monthly staff meetings, all data is compared to the 
student's file for accuracy. Because we a very small, rural program (118 
participants with 12 hours or more in fiscal year 2008), I am able to 
continually review data on a weekly basis. Reports are printed out weekly 
and compared with what goals we projected, building from previous years.

Our staff meetings consist of two full time instructors, one part time 
instructor, one part time administrative staff and one full time 
administrative staff. Because we work very closely as a team, we look at 
the data for the whole program. If there are deficits in any area, we 
began to look at ways for improvement. Staff members are helpful to one 
another in giving suggestions.

Overall, when our staff members receive a report, they are very interested 
in our outcomes. Sometimes there is no awareness of progress or lack of 
progress until it is seen on paper. The results don't carry any negative 
connotations but a desire for improvement.

Vivian Copsey
Coordinator Adult Education
Allen Community College
1801 N. Cottonwood
Iola, KS 66749
620.365.5116 x250

At 08:35 AM 12/10/2008 -0500, you wrote: 
Having staff have buy-in to looking at and using data can be a challenge 
but
if programs make the effort to make this a part of what they do, it will
become institutionalized over time. 
One way to begin to look at data is to bring some data to a staff meeting.
Do an activity where everyone gets a chance to look at the data and see 
what
stands out to them.  Then go around the room and let each person say what
stands out.  (Include ALL staff in this- teachers, administrators, support
personnel, volunteers).  Make a list of the things that stand out and then
have a discussion about the different things.  It could be that people
notice something really good or maybe an area of needed improvement. 
We do this with our year end data every year.  We look at enrollment,
retention, gains, goals achieved, demographics, numbers of ABE/GED/ESL
students, inquiries, and more.  We usually find a few things to focus on 
for
the next program year from this activity.  Some of our best ideas for
program improvement have come from our receptionist and office manager, as
they were looking at the data from a different perspective.

We also started adding looking at data to all of our meetings.  We choose 
an
area to look at and examine (this is done in our monthly program 
improvement
meetings, teacher meetings, and other sub-groups of our staff's meetings).
We always try to look at data before making program changes (if the data 
is
available).  Teachers eventually have gotten used to looking at the data 
and
seeing how it can inform their practice. They are more aware of their
students' attendance and testing information and can be more helpful in
helping the agency to make standards. 

If your staff are not used to looking at data, start small but keep it
consistent.  Make it a habit and eventually it will be part of what they 
do.

We do have great systems in PA where using data is something that is
required at the state level.  Our program improvement plans that are
required for state funding must be built on data analysis.  We have many
teachers and administrators that do practitioner research.  However, this
doesn't mean that using data for program improvement is always easy.  It 
is
time consuming but without it we are making decisions based on intuition 
or
hunches, which can have disastrous results.  Change is sometimes
uncomfortable but all staff can see the value of using data once they 
learn
how to look at it and how it can better inform their practice.

********************************************
Lori Keefer
Program Director
Greater Pittsburgh Literacy Council
100 Sheridan Square 4th floor
Pittsburgh PA 15206
412.661.7323 ext 131
fax: 412.661.3040
lkeefer at gplc.org
www.gplc.org

This email is intended solely for the use of the named addressees and is 
not
meant for general distribution. If you are not the intended recipient,
please report the error to the originator and delete the contents.

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of David Rosen
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:57 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1494] Re: Using Data

Drucie and others,

Earlier in this discussion I asked for specific examples (narratives) 
of teachers systematically using program data to answer their 
questions. In the SEQUEL Monographs that you suggested we look at, 
found at

http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org/pafamilyliteracy/cwp/view.asp? 
a=223&Q=145708&PM=1

I see several good examples in these monographs. Thank you for 
calling them to our attention. I would like to mention one, in 
particular, the Seneca Highlands Intermediate Unit 9-"Cooperative 
Learning in Adult Education to Improve Attitudes and Skills in Math" .

One of the biggest challenges our field faces is that very, very few 
(I think under 4%) of those in adult secondary education who say they 
want to go to college actually complete a degree. There are many 
reasons for this, but one of the biggest is that they cannot pass 
(usually required) college algebra.  This is because they did not get 
(positive)  exposure to algebra either in school or in an adult 
literacy education program. It is also because -- even if algebra is 
offered in their ASE program -- many have negative attitudes about, 
or fear of, learning algebra.  This study, carried out by program 
practitioners, looks at the use of cooperative learning as a strategy 
to help students overcome negative attitudes and increase knowledge 
of algebra during an eight-week program. The monograph is short, well- 
written, easy to read, and has some findings worth getting excited 
about. It would be great if there were other programs, where teachers 
care about this problem, that could replicate it. I wonder if any 
programs in Pennsylvania have already done that.

It would be terrific if there were a U.S. national adult literacy 
research institute (such as NCSALL was) that would make funds 
available to support programs replicating important studies such as 
this, to help build a body of professional wisdom on the use of 
cooperative learning in adult numeracy and mathematics. This might 
provide a sufficient base of evidence to see if it is worthwhile 
later to do "gold standard" experimental research.

Thanks, Drucie, and other leaders at all levels in Pennsylvania, who 
have for many years now supported programs using data for program 
decision-making. It looks like this may be paying off for 
Pennsylvania practitioners, as they learn what does and doesn't work 
for their students, and it is contributing to a literature of 
professional wisdom* so necessary in our field.

David J. Rosen
djrosen at theworld.com

* For a dialogue about professional wisdom (including a definition) 
with John Comings, former Director of the U.S. National Center for 
the Study of Adult learning and Literacy,  see: http:// 
wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Professional_Wisdom




On Dec 9, 2008, at 11:23 AM, Drucilla Weirauch wrote:

> In Pennsylvania we have a statewide program improvement initiative
> that uses a specific Practitioner Action Research (PAR) model. Each
> program chooses its own area of inquiry, based on its data. These
> data may be hard data (scores, hours, enrollment numbers, etc.) or
> other data, based on our Indicators of Program Quality (for example,
> the quality of the adult education classroom environment or depth of
> partnerships). Last year, there were 61 projects conducted by PA
> Family Literacy sites. Topics ranged from increasing enrollment or
> retention hours, implementing scientifically-based reading research
> in the adult classroom, improving children's oral receptive
> vocabulary, to increasing referrals from partners. In the spring we
> hosted regional poster shows where programs showcased their projects
> and results. Each program also submitted a monograph that detailed
> their question and background to it (the data), the interventions,
> data sources, results, reflections, and implications for the field.
>
> Monographs can be found at our website
> www.pafamilyliteracy.org. Left side, click on SEQUAL project, then 
> Monographs.
>
> The website also includes the PAR handbook that helped the programs
> identify a problem based on data, intervention,  choose best data 
> sources, etc.
>
> I evaluated the process to ascertain practitioners' perceptions of
> the inaugural year of the intentional, systematic PAR process. While
> it added a layer of work, most felt that it empowered them as
> practitioners and gave their program "teeth." What was also important
> is that this allowed them to show highlights of their program and
> program improvement that mere data do not always capture (e.g. data
> reported to the state and feds.) Programs used data to inform their
> question and chart their success. Analyzing and reflecting on the
> data made it more than mere numbers. This evaluation report is also
> on the website. It includes a summary of the outcomes from the
> projects and the perceptions of the participants on the research 
> process.
>
> Drucie Weirauch
> Penn State University
> Goodling Institute for Research in Family Literacy
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to djrosen at theworld.com






-------------------------------
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 -------------------------------
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Email delivered to nfaux at vcu.edu-------------------------------
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From dwilliams52 at sbcglobal.net  Thu Dec 11 14:32:45 2008
From: dwilliams52 at sbcglobal.net (David Williams)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:32:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Assessment 1519] Re: what is the definition of data
In-Reply-To: <076a01c95bb4$95f6f340$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <924718.93141.qm@web83502.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

A definition of "data" can be a problem, especially when dealing with diverse groups of users. Marie is pretty much correct, the broad definition of data would be any form of information. Specialists in data analysis even go as far as to break down data into categories, such as quantitative, qualitative, summative, etc. to better define the data being used.
?
One of the more important items in referring to data, especially if the data is planned to be used as some basis in making decisions, is how was the data acquired and can it be used in comparison with data from other sources? As an example, if the instructor for ESL Beginning Low classroom A gives a self-prepared spelling test to students, the results could be used to measure the students progress based on the standard developed by instructor A. However, it could not be used to measure the students in classroom A progress with classroom B ESL Beg. Low students, unless that instructor also used the same spelling test.
?
Does that mean that all data must be generated from "standardized" sources? No, the data acquired by the classroom A spelling test is still valid and can be of use to that teacher and those individual students, it just isn't valid in comparing information to other classrooms using different assessments.
?
So, at least in my opinion, defining what is data is important primarily in regard with the intended use of the data and to ensure that all "users" of the data understand what that definition is.
?
Dave Williams
Principal
Beaumont Adult School
Beaumont, CA

--- On Thu, 12/11/08, Marie Cora <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> wrote:

From: Marie Cora <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
Subject: [Assessment 1512] Re: what is the definition of data
To: gdemetrion at msn.com, "'The Assessment Discussion List'" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 9:19 AM








Hi George and everyone,
?
Thanks so much for this question George.? It is always good to start at the beginning!
?
What do people think?? I noted in a post earlier this week that my definition of data is quite broad ? I said that data pretty much equals information ? can?t really get broader than that!
?
But I see where you are coming from George.
?
What do other people think?? When you hear ?data?, what do you think about?? Is your idea more narrow or broader?? Is it a scary term or a welcome term, and why?? 
?
This discussion would speak directly to staff buy-in:? if everyone has a different idea of what data is and how it can be used, then that?s tough.? A few folks have discussed related ideas to this in other posts.
?
Marie
?
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of gdemetrion at msn.com
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:35 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1507] what is the definition of data
?
Good morning all.
?
The term "data" is being used a great deal in these discussions and the posts are very informative. I do want to check in here:? What is meant by "data" and how is that distinguished, if at all, from other sources of information ort evidence bearing on how, in what contexts, what, and how rapidly students come to learn, which, depending on the definition of learning as at the least, some shift in awareness, is probably taking place more or less in all situations.
?
Best,
?
George Demetrion

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From nfaux at vcu.edu  Thu Dec 11 18:07:48 2008
From: nfaux at vcu.edu (Nancy R Faux/AC/VCU)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:07:48 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1520] Re: Getting staff used to using data
In-Reply-To: <D7D008D5A3EAF6478CF0328F18E6639B91AE33@MAILBE-LA13.lausd.net>
References: <316787.94374.qm@web82706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>,
	<D7D008D5A3EAF6478CF0328F18E6639B91AE33@MAILBE-LA13.lausd.net>
Message-ID: <OFAD85889B.A8E9A19E-ON8525751C.007F0B1A-8525751C.007F0E8E@vcu.edu>

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From nfaux at vcu.edu  Thu Dec 11 14:22:44 2008
From: nfaux at vcu.edu (Nancy R Faux/AC/VCU)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:22:44 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1521] Re: Getting staff used to using data
In-Reply-To: <D7D008D5A3EAF6478CF0328F18E6639B91AE33@MAILBE-LA13.lausd.net>
Message-ID: <OF6FDA530C.AC2171EA-ON8525751C.006A407A-8525751C.006A6B33@vcu.edu>

Hi Barry,

Could you please explain how you are correlating student attendance and 
retention with teacher participation in professional development, or the 
workshops that you offer?  We are exploring ways of doing this, also.

Nancy

*********************************************************
Nancy R. Faux
ESOL Specialist
Virginia Adult Learning Resource Center
Virginia Commonwealth University
3600 W. Broad Street, Suite 669
Richmond, VA 23230-4930
nfaux at vcu.edu
http://www.valrc.org
1-800-237-0178



"Bakin, Barry" <barry.bakin at lausd.net> 
Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
12/11/2008 12:21 PM
Please respond to
The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>


To
"The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
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Subject
[Assessment 1510] Re: Getting staff used to using data






Data is not just for classroom instructional staff to analyze. Our staff 
meeting yesterday(of teacher trainers responsible for staff 
development)focused on using attendance and ADA statistics collected since 
1999 as a way to determine whether or not our team's staff development 
efforts over the last several years has resulted in increases in student 
attendance and retention by students whose teachers have taken staff 
development workshops. We have an immediate and pressing interest for 
doing so, as expected district-wide budget shortfalls of millions of 
dollars are leading some at the district level to advocate for the 
elimination of staff-development programs in the coming year.  We 
obviously feel that teachers who improve their skills will retain students 
better than those who don't, but we'd like to be able to point to data 
that demonstrates that.

Barry Bakin
ESL Teacher Adviser
Division of Adult and Career Education
Los Angeles Unified School District
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From jschneider at eicc.edu  Fri Dec 12 00:45:42 2008
From: jschneider at eicc.edu (Schneider, Jim)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:45:42 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1522]  Managed Enrollment vs Open Enrollment
References: <076501c95bb3$d4b253a0$0202a8c0@LITNOW>
Message-ID: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB8708AA2164@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>

<The consequences of such a move completely affected important items like student testing, recruitment and retention, even staff retention, in very positive ways.  It?s a layer of accountability that is the responsibility first of the student and therefore can change the dynamic of the program.>

Herein lies one example of the schizophrenic nature of Adult Literacy Education. There is little doubt by anyone with operational synapses that managed enrollment provides a multitude of advantages over open enrollment. However, the funding of programs is often structured in a manner that prevents such an operational decision. 

We do not have the sane guidelines like the Student Support Services TRIO program where the cost of adequately serving students is known and mandated so that funding isn't diluted to serve too many people. Rather in Adult Literacy Education, the funding is so limited that the available funds fall far short of meeting the demand. 

Add to this insanity, states that fund Adult Literacy Education based on heads and hours and soon anything remotely resembling managed enrollment is tossed aside to merely make the most of the limited funds with as many learners as possible. 

I cannot begin to express the envy I have for the programs located in states more interested in quality service over maximizing heads/hours. The luxury of choosing between open and managed enrollment is a choice I hope to have before my career is over. 

Jim Schneider




-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
Sent: Thu 12/11/2008 11:13 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1511] Re: Testing and Managed Enrollment
 
Hi all,

 

This thread is interesting to me.  If you look at the focus areas in the
first module of the initiative (see Recommended Preparations for the
Discussion at http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/08data.html)
you will see that a number of these areas speak either directly or
indirectly to the exchanges below by Barbara, Phil and Nancy.  They focus on
things that would affect pre and post testing, student follow-up,
achievement of goals, and the like.  Managed enrollment also came up during
out work with Module 2 as well.

 

One of the things that Cathay and I found in identifying programs that
employed successful practices was a deliberate move away from
open-enrollment toward managed enrollment.  The consequences of such a move
completely affected important items like student testing, recruitment and
retention, even staff retention, in very positive ways.  It's a layer of
accountability that is the responsibility first of the student and therefore
can change the dynamic of the program.

 

Cathay - do you have any comments about managed enrollment and its positive
affects on the program?  Vivian, Donielle, and Lori - any thoughts here on
open versus managed enrollment?

 

Everyone - your thoughts?

 

Marie

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Nancy R Faux/AC/VCU
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:33 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1509] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data

 


Phil, 

Your statistics on Managed Enrollment (ME) are very encouraging.  I am going
to save your email to use it later on when speaking with programs that are
resistant to ME. 

I also find it insightful that your courses are only 7-8 weeks.  About how
many hours of instruction per week would there be?  Do the students have
enough hours to qualify for a post-test? 

Nancy 

*********************************************************
Nancy R. Faux
ESOL Specialist
Virginia Adult Learning Resource Center
Virginia Commonwealth University
3600 W. Broad Street, Suite 669
Richmond, VA 23230-4930
nfaux at vcu.edu
 <http://www.valrc.org/> http://www.valrc.org
1-800-237-0178 




"Anderson, Philip" <Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org> 
Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 

12/11/2008 10:31 AM 


Please respond to
The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>


To

<barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu>, "The Assessment Discussion List"
<assessment at nifl.gov> 


cc

 


Subject

[Assessment 1508] Re: [BULK]    Getting staff used to using data

 


 

 




Barbara, 
  
When you say you get 60%, do you mean that you get 60% of the students to
take a post-test, or that you get 60% of the students to pass to a higher
level when they post-test? 
  
Either way, compared to the numbers we see in Florida, that is great!  We
see less than 50% of the students take a post-test, and, depending on the
level, we usually see about 25-30% of the total number of enrolled students
that pass to a higher level.  However, when students do take a post-test, we
see that about 50% of these students actually pass to a higher level.
Programs in Florida use primarily the CASAS Life and Work series for ESOL
students.  The other tests that our programs use are the BEST Plus and BEST
Literacy.  
  
The message we are trying to get out is that programs need to find ways to
get students to stay in class long enough to post-test.  If a few more
percentage points of the students would "persist" until they post-test, the
data would show much higher rates of students passing to higher levels.
Programs will show much stronger results if only they can hone in on
"retaining" students! 
  
Florida has had several local programs begin to implement managed enrollment
in their ESOL programs, and the results are astoundingly high!  Managed
Enrollment (ME) programs consistently see 80-90% of students stay long
enough to post-test.  And of those who post-test, 70-80% pass to a higher
level. 
  
Miami Dade school district adult ESOL program did a pilot of 7 sites with
ME, and showed these types of numbers.  They called the ME classes
"Intensive English Academies."  Although the curriculum was the same, the
length of the courses was shortened to 7-8 weeks, and after the first week
the classes were closed to new students entering.  The teachers and students
found they were free from the chaos of students coming and going so much,
and were able to build on previous lessons better.  For more information
about the ESOL Academies, visit  <http://www.floridaadultesol.org/>
www.floridaadultesol.org, or write to Dr. Beatriz Diaz, Adult ESOL
Coordinator, at  <mailto:bdiaz at dadeschools.net> bdiaz at dadeschools.net.   
  
Phil 
(850) 245-9450 

 

  _____  


From: Barbara Jacala [mailto:barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:00 PM
To: cathayreta at sbcglobal.net; 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1505] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data 
  
Hello. I am a latecomer to this discussion and I hope not too late to get
feedback from experienced practitioners. I am the program specialist for
adult education at Guam Community College. The difficulty we encounter is in
raising the level of our paired tests (pre and post). I am getting only
about 60%. Is this average for this population? How are others encouraging
students to take the post before leaving? Or how are they making sure that
everyone is post tested? What strategies have you put in place? 
  
Barbara Jacala 
Guam Community College 
Adult Education Program Specialist 
POB 23069 GMF, GU 96931 
671-735-5584 
barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu 
  

 

  _____  


From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Cathay Reta
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:29 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1503] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data 
  


Hello, 
  
As someone previously mentioned, I think it is helpful to see that data is
more than numbers.  It also includes information drawn from surveys, focus
groups, interviews, etc.  I am reminded of Project Learn in Akron, Ohio.
Their reports showed that 
  
 "Students functioning between the 5.0 and 8.9 grade level equivalent
attended for an average of 35 hours for the program year while literacy
students averaged 55 hours, GED students averaged 42 hours, and ESOL
students averaged 65 hours."   
  
So they gathered more data by talking with students in the pre-GED level and
found that they did not feel comfortable going from their student
orientation into a classroom where the instructor and students already knew
each other.  Based on that, they re-arranged class schedules to give
instructors a half hour to meet with new students before the start of class.
That made a difference evidenced by the next year's report -- the average
hours of attendance for those students increased to 52 hours.   
  
I think examples like this are what make me excited about "data." 
  
I'm wondering if anyone has other examples to share, or questions about what
type of data to review to address specific concerns.  Anyone?? 
  
Cathay 
  


Cathay O. Reta
Cornerstone Concepts
6670 Southside Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90022
Ph: 323) 728-4302
cathayreta at sbcglobal.net

--- On Wed, 12/10/08, Vivian Copsey <copsey at allencc.edu> wrote: 
From: Vivian Copsey <copsey at allencc.edu>
Subject: [Assessment 1501] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 11:45 AM 
I agree wholeheartedly with your approach to reviewing data. In Kansas, we
are required to meet certain indicators of a quality adult education program
in order to receive funding. Our instructional staff realizes our data
reflects our progress toward these measures. We have an excellent database
used by all AEFLA funded programs across the State. The database is
available for review by the staff at the Kansas Board of Regents and by any
member of our staff. A representative for the adult education program does a
yearly on-site visit  to review files for accuracy.

I am the only one who enters data. Any incorrect data becomes my
responsibility. At our monthly staff meetings, all data is compared to the
student's file for accuracy. Because we a very small, rural program (118
participants with 12 hours or more in fiscal year 2008), I am able to
continually review data on a weekly basis. Reports are printed out weekly
and compared with what goals we projected, building from previous years.

Our staff meetings consist of two full time instructors, one part time
instructor, one part time administrative staff and one full time
administrative staff. Because we work very closely as a team, we look at the
data for the whole program. If there are deficits in any area, we began to
look at ways for improvement. Staff members are helpful to one another in
giving suggestions.

Overall, when our staff members receive a report, they are very interested
in our outcomes. Sometimes there is no awareness of progress or lack of
progress until it is seen on paper. The results don't carry any negative
connotations but a desire for improvement.

Vivian Copsey
Coordinator Adult Education
Allen Community College
1801 N. Cottonwood
Iola, KS 66749
620.365.5116 x250

At 08:35 AM 12/10/2008 -0500, you wrote: 
Having staff have buy-in to looking at and using data can be a challenge but
if programs make the effort to make this a part of what they do, it will
become institutionalized over time. 
One way to begin to look at data is to bring some data to a staff meeting.
Do an activity where everyone gets a chance to look at the data and see what
stands out to them.  Then go around the room and let each person say what
stands out.  (Include ALL staff in this- teachers, administrators, support
personnel, volunteers).  Make a list of the things that stand out and then
have a discussion about the different things.  It could be that people
notice something really good or maybe an area of needed improvement.  
We do this with our year end data every year.  We look at enrollment,
retention, gains, goals achieved, demographics, numbers of ABE/GED/ESL
students, inquiries, and more.  We usually find a few things to focus on for
the next program year from this activity.  Some of our best ideas for
program improvement have come from our receptionist and office manager, as
they were looking at the data from a different perspective.

We also started adding looking at data to all of our meetings.  We choose an
area to look at and examine (this is done in our monthly program improvement
meetings, teacher meetings, and other sub-groups of our staff's meetings).
We always try to look at data before making program changes (if the data is
available).  Teachers eventually have gotten used to looking at the data and
seeing how it can inform their practice. They are more aware of their
students' attendance and testing information and can be more helpful in
helping the agency to make standards. 

If your staff are not used to looking at data, start small but keep it
consistent.  Make it a habit and eventually it will be part of what they do.

We do have great systems in PA where using data is something that is
required at the state level.  Our program improvement plans that are
required for state funding must be built on data analysis.  We have many
teachers and administrators that do practitioner research.  However, this
doesn't mean that using data for program improvement is always easy.  It is
time consuming but without it we are making decisions based on intuition or
hunches, which can have disastrous results.  Change is sometimes
uncomfortable but all staff can see the value of using data once they learn
how to look at it and how it can better inform their practice.

********************************************
Lori Keefer
Program Director
Greater Pittsburgh Literacy Council
100 Sheridan Square 4th floor
Pittsburgh PA 15206
412.661.7323 ext 131
fax: 412.661.3040
lkeefer at gplc.org
www.gplc.org <http://www.gplc.org/> 

This email is intended solely for the use of the named addressees and is not
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-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of David Rosen
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:57 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1494] Re: Using Data

Drucie and others,

Earlier in this discussion I asked for specific examples (narratives)  
of teachers systematically using program data to answer their  
questions. In the SEQUEL Monographs that you suggested we look at,  
found at

http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org/pafamilyliteracy/cwp/view.asp? 
a=223&Q=145708&PM=1

I see several good examples in these monographs. Thank you for  
calling them to our attention. I would like to mention one, in  
particular, the Seneca Highlands Intermediate Unit 9-"Cooperative  
Learning in Adult Education to Improve Attitudes and Skills in Math" .

One of the biggest challenges our field faces is that very, very few  
(I think under 4%) of those in adult secondary education who say they  
want to go to college actually complete a degree. There are many  
reasons for this, but one of the biggest is that they cannot pass  
(usually required) college algebra.  This is because they did not get  
(positive)  exposure to algebra either in school or in an adult  
literacy education program. It is also because -- even if algebra is  
offered in their ASE program -- many have negative attitudes about,  
or fear of, learning algebra.  This study, carried out by program  
practitioners, looks at the use of cooperative learning as a strategy  
to help students overcome negative attitudes and increase knowledge  
of algebra during an eight-week program. The monograph is short, well- 
written, easy to read, and has some findings worth getting excited  
about. It would be great if there were other programs, where teachers  
care about this problem, that could replicate it. I wonder if any  
programs in Pennsylvania have already done that.

It would be terrific if there were a U.S. national adult literacy  
research institute (such as NCSALL was) that would make funds  
available to support programs replicating important studies such as  
this, to help build a body of professional wisdom on the use of  
cooperative learning in adult numeracy and mathematics. This might  
provide a sufficient base of evidence to see if it is worthwhile  
later to do "gold standard" experimental research.

Thanks, Drucie, and other leaders at all levels in Pennsylvania, who  
have for many years now supported programs using data for program  
decision-making. It looks like this may be paying off for  
Pennsylvania practitioners, as they learn what does and doesn't work  
for their students, and it is contributing to a literature of  
professional wisdom* so necessary in our field.

David J. Rosen
djrosen at theworld.com

* For a dialogue about professional wisdom (including a definition)  
with John Comings, former Director of the U.S. National Center for  
the Study of Adult learning and Literacy,  see: http:// 
wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Professional_Wisdom




On Dec 9, 2008, at 11:23 AM, Drucilla Weirauch wrote:

> In Pennsylvania we have a statewide program improvement initiative
> that uses a specific Practitioner Action Research (PAR) model. Each
> program chooses its own area of inquiry, based on its data. These
> data may be hard data (scores, hours, enrollment numbers, etc.) or
> other data, based on our Indicators of Program Quality (for example,
> the quality of the adult education classroom environment or depth of
> partnerships). Last year, there were 61 projects conducted by PA
> Family Literacy sites. Topics ranged from increasing enrollment or
> retention hours, implementing scientifically-based reading research
> in the adult classroom, improving children's oral receptive
> vocabulary, to increasing referrals from partners. In the spring we
> hosted regional poster shows where programs showcased their projects
> and results. Each program also submitted a monograph that detailed
> their question and background to it (the data), the interventions,
> data sources, results, reflections, and implications for the field.
>
> Monographs can be found at our website
> www.pafamilyliteracy.org. <http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org.%20/>  Left
side, click on SEQUAL project, then  
> Monographs.
>
> The website also includes the PAR handbook that helped the programs
> identify a problem based on data, intervention,  choose best data  
> sources, etc.
>
> I evaluated the process to ascertain practitioners' perceptions of
> the inaugural year of the intentional, systematic PAR process. While
> it added a layer of work, most felt that it empowered them as
> practitioners and gave their program "teeth." What was also important
> is that this allowed them to show highlights of their program and
> program improvement that mere data do not always capture (e.g. data
> reported to the state and feds.) Programs used data to inform their
> question and chart their success. Analyzing and reflecting on the
> data made it more than mere numbers. This evaluation report is also
> on the website. It includes a summary of the outcomes from the
> projects and the perceptions of the participants on the research  
> process.
>
> Drucie Weirauch
> Penn State University
> Goodling Institute for Research in Family Literacy
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to djrosen at theworld.com






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From gdemetrion at msn.com  Fri Dec 12 08:47:32 2008
From: gdemetrion at msn.com (gdemetrion at msn.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 08:47:32 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1523] Re: Getting staff used to using data
In-Reply-To: <OFAD85889B.A8E9A19E-ON8525751C.007F0B1A-8525751C.007F0E8E@vcu.edu>
References: <316787.94374.qm@web82706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>,
	<D7D008D5A3EAF6478CF0328F18E6639B91AE33@MAILBE-LA13.lausd.net> 
	<OFAD85889B.A8E9A19E-ON8525751C.007F0B1A-8525751C.007F0E8E@vcu.edu>
Message-ID: <BAY103-W17ABE8C724BB1E4BA561E2C5F90@phx.gbl>


Good morning all,
 
One of the dilemmas of taking on such studies is that of creating another level of work, and therefore time allocation which in turn would need justification and therefore "evidence" that such time expenditure is a worthy fiscal investment, often when time and money are scarce commodities.
 
On the question at hand, I'm wondering to what extent such correlations can be made when (a) there are so many intervening variables, and (b) when relationships between professional development and direct program improvement are typically longer term and  perhaps more typically reflect changes in the "softer" organizational climate of a learning organization.  This is not to deny that there can be some direct impacts, which in principle, can be measurable at least in some instances, though I'd be weary of justifying PD on such terms (cost-benefits metaphors--and let's not forget the metaphorical dimension of language in play here). I think broader arguments can be made for Professional Development which perhaps can be drawn in from research both in our own field (NCSALL has done some work here as have other institutes) and in other fields.  One needs to consider as well, the quality, content, and context in which PD takes place, how it is internalized within the thinking and practice of practitioners and its role within broader adult education programs, including the organizational and pedagogical development of such organizations on a system-wide basis.  These are matters of major consequences, a discussion of which perhaps better belongs on the PD forum.
 
On assessment, if one, year after year is working with students at a broadly similar level and range, and if year after year the standardized testing scores (pre and post) are broadly the same, then perhaps the issue there is the purpose or the purposes of adult literacy education where "growth" (a Deweyan metaphor of intriguing consequences) does take place over time, typically in ways that are subtle, but not so effectively "measured" by the various "instruments" available to document such impact.
 
Pragmatically we need to come up with some workable solutions that at least move toward viable mid-level solutions, but to the extent that broader definitions of the meaning and purpose of adult literacy education is more clearly and realistically built into policy formulations we're going to remain stymied in the most fundamental sense even when some progress is being made in sharpening our understanding of assessment tools and fitting them into our programs.  Such latter work is essential, though I think it's important that we not allow various mystifications that we are actually measuring literacy growth (when we haven't defined the terms) to seep in, such as, for example, the conflation between reading and literacy.
 

Best,
 
George Demetrion



From: nfaux at vcu.eduTo: assessment at nifl.govDate: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:07:48 -0500Subject: [Assessment 1520] Re: Getting staff used to using data
Hi Barry,Could you please explain how you are correlating student attendance and retention with teacher participation in professional development, or the workshops that you offer?  We are exploring ways of doing this, also.Nancy
*********************************************************Nancy R. FauxESOL SpecialistVirginia Adult Learning Resource CenterVirginia Commonwealth University3600 W. Broad Street, Suite 669Richmond, VA 23230-4930nfaux at vcu.eduhttp://www.valrc.org1-800-237-0178
-----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>From: "Bakin, Barry" <barry.bakin at lausd.net>Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.govDate: 12/11/2008 12:06PMSubject: [Assessment 1510] Re: Getting staff used to using dataData is not just for classroom instructional staff to analyze. Our staff meeting yesterday(of teacher trainers responsible for staff development)focused on using attendance and ADA statistics collected since 1999 as a way to determine whether or not our team's staff development efforts over the last several years has resulted in increases in student attendance and retention by students whose teachers have taken staff development workshops. We have an immediate and pressing interest for doing so, as expected district-wide budget shortfalls of millions of dollars are leading some at the district level to advocate for the elimination of staff-development programs in the coming year.  We obviously feel that teachers who improve their skills will retain students better than those who don't, but we'd like to be able to point to data that demonstrates that.Barry BakinESL Teacher AdviserDivision of Adult and Career EducationLos Angeles Unified School District-------------------------------National Institute for LiteracyAssessment mailing listAssessment at nifl.govTo unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessmentEmail delivered to nfaux at vcu.edu
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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Fri Dec 12 09:11:26 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 09:11:26 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1524]  Final day of data discussion
Message-ID: <096101c95c63$8619b840$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Good morning, afternoon, and evening to you all.

 

Today is the last day of our discussion on data.  Please send any questions
or comments to the List now.

 

The discussion has been very interesting this week - I look forward to
reading the conversation that occurs today.

 

For full information on this discussion, go to:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/08data.html

 

Thanks!

 

Marie Cora

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From cathayreta at sbcglobal.net  Fri Dec 12 13:53:59 2008
From: cathayreta at sbcglobal.net (Cathay Reta)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:53:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Assessment 1525] Re: Raising numbers of pre/post tests
In-Reply-To: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB8708AA2164@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
Message-ID: <929177.6352.qm@web82702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello,
?
I would like to offer another example or two to Barbara and others who are interested in increasing the number of learners being pre and post tested.? The Greater Pittsburgh Literacy Council conducts a student orientation for learners prior to their starting the program.? As part of that orientation they?discuss the testing process,?what the scores mean, and how they are used.? They share the program's success rate -- it exceeds state standards by 15%.??The students become active partners in the process, and?sometimes will?call the office themselves to ask to schedule their progress/post test!? I think that's pretty powerful.
?
Along the same lines, the Adult ESOL and Literacy/GED Program of?Montgomery College in Maryland feels it is important for students to understand the testing process.? They distribute a booklet called "Why We Test"?to give students at the beginning of classes.? It? clarifies the CASAS tests - the meaning of score ranges,?how they relate to what a learner already knows, and provides an outline of course content for each level.
?
I think it is really helpful to involve the students?like this.? 



Cathay O. Reta
Cornerstone Concepts
6670 Southside Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90022
Ph: 323) 728-4302
cathayreta at sbcglobal.net

--- On Thu, 12/11/08, Schneider, Jim <jschneider at eicc.edu> wrote:

From: Schneider, Jim <jschneider at eicc.edu>
Subject: [Assessment 1522] Managed Enrollment vs Open Enrollment
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 9:45 PM



#yiv1623115668 .Normal
    {
text-align:left;text-indent:0pt;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt;margin-left:0pt;margin-right:0pt;}

<The consequences of such a move completely affected important items like student testing, recruitment and retention, even staff retention, in very positive ways. It?s a layer of accountability that is the responsibility first of the student and therefore can change the dynamic of the program.>

Herein lies one example of the schizophrenic nature of Adult Literacy Education. There is little doubt by anyone with operational synapses that managed enrollment provides a multitude of advantages over open enrollment. However, the funding of programs is often structured in a manner that prevents such an operational decision. 

We do not have the sane guidelines like the Student Support Services TRIO program where the cost of adequately serving students is known and mandated so that funding isn't diluted to serve too many people. Rather in Adult Literacy Education, the funding is so limited that the available funds fall far short of meeting the demand. 

Add to this insanity, states that fund Adult Literacy Education based on heads and hours and soon anything remotely resembling managed enrollment is tossed aside to merely make the most of the limited funds with as many learners as possible. 

I cannot begin to express the envy I have for the programs located in states more interested in quality service over maximizing heads/hours. The luxury of choosing between open and managed enrollment is a choice I hope to have before my career is over. 

Jim Schneider




-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora
Sent: Thu 12/11/2008 11:13 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1511] Re: Testing and Managed Enrollment

Hi all,



This thread is interesting to me. If you look at the focus areas in the
first module of the initiative (see Recommended Preparations for the
Discussion at http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/08data.html)
you will see that a number of these areas speak either directly or
indirectly to the exchanges below by Barbara, Phil and Nancy. They focus on
things that would affect pre and post testing, student follow-up,
achievement of goals, and the like. Managed enrollment also came up during
out work with Module 2 as well.



One of the things that Cathay and I found in identifying programs that
employed successful practices was a deliberate move away from
open-enrollment toward managed enrollment. The consequences of such a move
completely affected important items like student testing, recruitment and
retention, even staff retention, in very positive ways. It's a layer of
accountability that is the responsibility first of the student and therefore
can change the dynamic of the program.



Cathay - do you have any comments about managed enrollment and its positive
affects on the program? Vivian, Donielle, and Lori - any thoughts here on
open versus managed enrollment?



Everyone - your thoughts?



Marie







-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Nancy R Faux/AC/VCU
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:33 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1509] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data




Phil, 

Your statistics on Managed Enrollment (ME) are very encouraging. I am going
to save your email to use it later on when speaking with programs that are
resistant to ME. 

I also find it insightful that your courses are only 7-8 weeks. About how
many hours of instruction per week would there be? Do the students have
enough hours to qualify for a post-test? 

Nancy 

*********************************************************
Nancy R. Faux
ESOL Specialist
Virginia Adult Learning Resource Center
Virginia Commonwealth University
3600 W. Broad Street, Suite 669
Richmond, VA 23230-4930
nfaux at vcu.edu
<http://www.valrc.org/> http://www.valrc.org
1-800-237-0178 




"Anderson, Philip" <Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org> 
Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 

12/11/2008 10:31 AM 


Please respond to
The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>


To

<barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu>, "The Assessment Discussion List"
<assessment at nifl.gov> 


cc




Subject

[Assessment 1508] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data











Barbara, 

When you say you get 60%, do you mean that you get 60% of the students to
take a post-test, or that you get 60% of the students to pass to a higher
level when they post-test? 

Either way, compared to the numbers we see in Florida, that is great! We
see less than 50% of the students take a post-test, and, depending on the
level, we usually see about 25-30% of the total number of enrolled students
that pass to a higher level. However, when students do take a post-test, we
see that about 50% of these students actually pass to a higher level.
Programs in Florida use primarily the CASAS Life and Work series for ESOL
students. The other tests that our programs use are the BEST Plus and BEST
Literacy. 

The message we are trying to get out is that programs need to find ways to
get students to stay in class long enough to post-test. If a few more
percentage points of the students would "persist" until they post-test, the
data would show much higher rates of students passing to higher levels.
Programs will show much stronger results if only they can hone in on
"retaining" students! 

Florida has had several local programs begin to implement managed enrollment
in their ESOL programs, and the results are astoundingly high! Managed
Enrollment (ME) programs consistently see 80-90% of students stay long
enough to post-test. And of those who post-test, 70-80% pass to a higher
level. 

Miami Dade school district adult ESOL program did a pilot of 7 sites with
ME, and showed these types of numbers. They called the ME classes
"Intensive English Academies." Although the curriculum was the same, the
length of the courses was shortened to 7-8 weeks, and after the first week
the classes were closed to new students entering. The teachers and students
found they were free from the chaos of students coming and going so much,
and were able to build on previous lessons better. For more information
about the ESOL Academies, visit <http://www.floridaadultesol.org/>
www.floridaadultesol.org, or write to Dr. Beatriz Diaz, Adult ESOL
Coordinator, at <mailto:bdiaz at dadeschools.net> bdiaz at dadeschools.net. 

Phil 
(850) 245-9450 



_____ 


From: Barbara Jacala [mailto:barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:00 PM
To: cathayreta at sbcglobal.net; 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1505] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data 

Hello. I am a latecomer to this discussion and I hope not too late to get
feedback from experienced practitioners. I am the program specialist for
adult education at Guam Community College. The difficulty we encounter is in
raising the level of our paired tests (pre and post). I am getting only
about 60%. Is this average for this population? How are others encouraging
students to take the post before leaving? Or how are they making sure that
everyone is post tested? What strategies have you put in place? 

Barbara Jacala 
Guam Community College 
Adult Education Program Specialist 
POB 23069 GMF, GU 96931 
671-735-5584 
barbara.jacala at guamcc.edu 




_____ 


From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Cathay Reta
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:29 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1503] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data 



Hello, 

As someone previously mentioned, I think it is helpful to see that data is
more than numbers. It also includes information drawn from surveys, focus
groups, interviews, etc. I am reminded of Project Learn in Akron, Ohio.
Their reports showed that 

"Students functioning between the 5.0 and 8.9 grade level equivalent
attended for an average of 35 hours for the program year while literacy
students averaged 55 hours, GED students averaged 42 hours, and ESOL
students averaged 65 hours." 

So they gathered more data by talking with students in the pre-GED level and
found that they did not feel comfortable going from their student
orientation into a classroom where the instructor and students already knew
each other. Based on that, they re-arranged class schedules to give
instructors a half hour to meet with new students before the start of class.
That made a difference evidenced by the next year's report -- the average
hours of attendance for those students increased to 52 hours. 

I think examples like this are what make me excited about "data." 

I'm wondering if anyone has other examples to share, or questions about what
type of data to review to address specific concerns. Anyone?? 

Cathay 



Cathay O. Reta
Cornerstone Concepts
6670 Southside Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90022
Ph: 323) 728-4302
cathayreta at sbcglobal.net

--- On Wed, 12/10/08, Vivian Copsey <copsey at allencc.edu> wrote: 
From: Vivian Copsey <copsey at allencc.edu>
Subject: [Assessment 1501] Re: [BULK] Getting staff used to using data
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 11:45 AM 
I agree wholeheartedly with your approach to reviewing data. In Kansas, we
are required to meet certain indicators of a quality adult education program
in order to receive funding. Our instructional staff realizes our data
reflects our progress toward these measures. We have an excellent database
used by all AEFLA funded programs across the State. The database is
available for review by the staff at the Kansas Board of Regents and by any
member of our staff. A representative for the adult education program does a
yearly on-site visit to review files for accuracy.

I am the only one who enters data. Any incorrect data becomes my
responsibility. At our monthly staff meetings, all data is compared to the
student's file for accuracy. Because we a very small, rural program (118
participants with 12 hours or more in fiscal year 2008), I am able to
continually review data on a weekly basis. Reports are printed out weekly
and compared with what goals we projected, building from previous years.

Our staff meetings consist of two full time instructors, one part time
instructor, one part time administrative staff and one full time
administrative staff. Because we work very closely as a team, we look at the
data for the whole program. If there are deficits in any area, we began to
look at ways for improvement. Staff members are helpful to one another in
giving suggestions.

Overall, when our staff members receive a report, they are very interested
in our outcomes. Sometimes there is no awareness of progress or lack of
progress until it is seen on paper. The results don't carry any negative
connotations but a desire for improvement.

Vivian Copsey
Coordinator Adult Education
Allen Community College
1801 N. Cottonwood
Iola, KS 66749
620.365.5116 x250

At 08:35 AM 12/10/2008 -0500, you wrote: 
Having staff have buy-in to looking at and using data can be a challenge but
if programs make the effort to make this a part of what they do, it will
become institutionalized over time. 
One way to begin to look at data is to bring some data to a staff meeting.
Do an activity where everyone gets a chance to look at the data and see what
stands out to them. Then go around the room and let each person say what
stands out. (Include ALL staff in this- teachers, administrators, support
personnel, volunteers). Make a list of the things that stand out and then
have a discussion about the different things. It could be that people
notice something really good or maybe an area of needed improvement. 
We do this with our year end data every year. We look at enrollment,
retention, gains, goals achieved, demographics, numbers of ABE/GED/ESL
students, inquiries, and more. We usually find a few things to focus on for
the next program year from this activity. Some of our best ideas for
program improvement have come from our receptionist and office manager, as
they were looking at the data from a different perspective.

We also started adding looking at data to all of our meetings. We choose an
area to look at and examine (this is done in our monthly program improvement
meetings, teacher meetings, and other sub-groups of our staff's meetings).
We always try to look at data before making program changes (if the data is
available). Teachers eventually have gotten used to looking at the data and
seeing how it can inform their practice. They are more aware of their
students' attendance and testing information and can be more helpful in
helping the agency to make standards. 

If your staff are not used to looking at data, start small but keep it
consistent. Make it a habit and eventually it will be part of what they do.

We do have great systems in PA where using data is something that is
required at the state level. Our program improvement plans that are
required for state funding must be built on data analysis. We have many
teachers and administrators that do practitioner research. However, this
doesn't mean that using data for program improvement is always easy. It is
time consuming but without it we are making decisions based on intuition or
hunches, which can have disastrous results. Change is sometimes
uncomfortable but all staff can see the value of using data once they learn
how to look at it and how it can better inform their practice.

********************************************
Lori Keefer
Program Director
Greater Pittsburgh Literacy Council
100 Sheridan Square 4th floor
Pittsburgh PA 15206
412.661.7323 ext 131
fax: 412.661.3040
lkeefer at gplc.org
www.gplc.org <http://www.gplc.org/> 

This email is intended solely for the use of the named addressees and is not
meant for general distribution. If you are not the intended recipient,
please report the error to the originator and delete the contents.

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of David Rosen
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:57 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1494] Re: Using Data

Drucie and others,

Earlier in this discussion I asked for specific examples (narratives) 
of teachers systematically using program data to answer their 
questions. In the SEQUEL Monographs that you suggested we look at, 
found at

http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org/pafamilyliteracy/cwp/view.asp? 
a=223&Q=145708&PM=1

I see several good examples in these monographs. Thank you for 
calling them to our attention. I would like to mention one, in 
particular, the Seneca Highlands Intermediate Unit 9-"Cooperative 
Learning in Adult Education to Improve Attitudes and Skills in Math" .

One of the biggest challenges our field faces is that very, very few 
(I think under 4%) of those in adult secondary education who say they 
want to go to college actually complete a degree. There are many 
reasons for this, but one of the biggest is that they cannot pass 
(usually required) college algebra. This is because they did not get 
(positive) exposure to algebra either in school or in an adult 
literacy education program. It is also because -- even if algebra is 
offered in their ASE program -- many have negative attitudes about, 
or fear of, learning algebra. This study, carried out by program 
practitioners, looks at the use of cooperative learning as a strategy 
to help students overcome negative attitudes and increase knowledge 
of algebra during an eight-week program. The monograph is short, well- 
written, easy to read, and has some findings worth getting excited 
about. It would be great if there were other programs, where teachers 
care about this problem, that could replicate it. I wonder if any 
programs in Pennsylvania have already done that.

It would be terrific if there were a U.S. national adult literacy 
research institute (such as NCSALL was) that would make funds 
available to support programs replicating important studies such as 
this, to help build a body of professional wisdom on the use of 
cooperative learning in adult numeracy and mathematics. This might 
provide a sufficient base of evidence to see if it is worthwhile 
later to do "gold standard" experimental research.

Thanks, Drucie, and other leaders at all levels in Pennsylvania, who 
have for many years now supported programs using data for program 
decision-making. It looks like this may be paying off for 
Pennsylvania practitioners, as they learn what does and doesn't work 
for their students, and it is contributing to a literature of 
professional wisdom* so necessary in our field.

David J. Rosen
djrosen at theworld.com

* For a dialogue about professional wisdom (including a definition) 
with John Comings, former Director of the U.S. National Center for 
the Study of Adult learning and Literacy, see: http:// 
wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Professional_Wisdom




On Dec 9, 2008, at 11:23 AM, Drucilla Weirauch wrote:

> In Pennsylvania we have a statewide program improvement initiative
> that uses a specific Practitioner Action Research (PAR) model. Each
> program chooses its own area of inquiry, based on its data. These
> data may be hard data (scores, hours, enrollment numbers, etc.) or
> other data, based on our Indicators of Program Quality (for example,
> the quality of the adult education classroom environment or depth of
> partnerships). Last year, there were 61 projects conducted by PA
> Family Literacy sites. Topics ranged from increasing enrollment or
> retention hours, implementing scientifically-based reading research
> in the adult classroom, improving children's oral receptive
> vocabulary, to increasing referrals from partners. In the spring we
> hosted regional poster shows where programs showcased their projects
> and results. Each program also submitted a monograph that detailed
> their question and background to it (the data), the interventions,
> data sources, results, reflections, and implications for the field.
>
> Monographs can be found at our website
> www.pafamilyliteracy.org. <http://www.pafamilyliteracy.org.%20/> Left
side, click on SEQUAL project, then 
> Monographs.
>
> The website also includes the PAR handbook that helped the programs
> identify a problem based on data, intervention, choose best data 
> sources, etc.
>
> I evaluated the process to ascertain practitioners' perceptions of
> the inaugural year of the intentional, systematic PAR process. While
> it added a layer of work, most felt that it empowered them as
> practitioners and gave their program "teeth." What was also important
> is that this allowed them to show highlights of their program and
> program improvement that mere data do not always capture (e.g. data
> reported to the state and feds.) Programs used data to inform their
> question and chart their success. Analyzing and reflecting on the
> data made it more than mere numbers. This evaluation report is also
> on the website. It includes a summary of the outcomes from the
> projects and the perceptions of the participants on the research 
> process.
>
> Drucie Weirauch
> Penn State University
> Goodling Institute for Research in Family Literacy
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to djrosen at theworld.com






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From jschneider at eicc.edu  Fri Dec 12 14:28:17 2008
From: jschneider at eicc.edu (Schneider, Jim)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:28:17 -0600
Subject: [Assessment 1526]  Demetrion's comments on Pragmatic Solutions
In-Reply-To: <BAY103-W17ABE8C724BB1E4BA561E2C5F90@phx.gbl>
References: <316787.94374.qm@web82706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>,
	<D7D008D5A3EAF6478CF0328F18E6639B91AE33@MAILBE-LA13.lausd.net>
	<OFAD85889B.A8E9A19E-ON8525751C.007F0B1A-8525751C.007F0E8E@vcu.edu>
	<BAY103-W17ABE8C724BB1E4BA561E2C5F90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870D6360D3@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>

<Pragmatically we need to come up with some workable solutions that at
least move toward viable mid-level solutions, but to the extent that
broader definitions of the meaning and purpose of adult literacy
education is more clearly and realistically built into policy
formulations we're going to remain stymied in the most fundamental sense
even when some progress is being made in sharpening our understanding of
assessment tools and fitting them into our programs.  Such latter work
is essential, though I think it's important that we not allow various
mystifications that we are actually measuring literacy growth (when we
haven't defined the terms) to seep in, such as, for example, the
conflation between reading and literacy. Best, George Demetrion>

 

AMEN! 

 

The field was hijacked in 1998 by the implementation of the NRS. We were
hypnotized (or hit over the head as the case may be), by the notion that
standardized assessments and procedures were reliable, valid measures of
the skills possessed by learners at entry, as well as a reliable, valid
measure of the learning that occurs in the classroom. 

 

Unfortunately our learners were not similarly hypnotized and come to us
with a wide range of learning difficulties, negative emotions and
anxiety about testing, and varying levels of focus and concentration
when taking the assessments. Little wonder that some learners look
severely impaired upon entry and attain their GED in a matter of weeks -
quite capable of knowing which assessments really matter to them, and
which are merely "busy work"  required to gain entry to the program. Or
why other learners look amazingly capable upon entry only to wallow in
the classroom for weeks, months and/or years when the reality of the
high-stakes tests cause their minds to lock-up like a Microsoft program.

 

Once upon a time, the field operated under broader definitions of the
meaning and purpose of adult literacy education.I fear that those days
are long gone. However, Mr. Demetrion's call for realistic policy
formations and recognizing the mystifications (isn't this a great word?)
of our current fixation on standardized tests as the only possible
measure of learner gains and accomplishments is a welcome sight for
these weary eyes. All the discussion regarding accountability and
program improvement would be so much more palatable if the funding to
achieve it was commensurate. 

 

Jim Schneider

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of gdemetrion at msn.com
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 7:48 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1523] Re: Getting staff used to using data

 

Good morning all,
 

One of the dilemmas of taking on such studies is that of creating
another level of work, and therefore time allocation which in turn would
need justification and therefore "evidence" that such time expenditure
is a worthy fiscal investment, often when time and money are scarce
commodities.

 

On the question at hand, I'm wondering to what extent such correlations
can be made when (a) there are so many intervening variables, and (b)
when relationships between professional development and direct program
improvement are typically longer term and  perhaps more typically
reflect changes in the "softer" organizational climate of a learning
organization.  This is not to deny that there can be some direct
impacts, which in principle, can be measurable at least in some
instances, though I'd be weary of justifying PD on such terms
(cost-benefits metaphors--and let's not forget the metaphorical
dimension of language in play here). I think broader arguments can be
made for Professional Development which perhaps can be drawn in from
research both in our own field (NCSALL has done some work here as have
other institutes) and in other fields.  One needs to consider as well,
the quality, content, and context in which PD takes place, how it is
internalized within the thinking and practice of practitioners and its
role within broader adult education programs, including the
organizational and pedagogical development of such organizations on a
system-wide basis.  These are matters of major consequences, a
discussion of which perhaps better belongs on the PD forum.

 

On assessment, if one, year after year is working with students at a
broadly similar level and range, and if year after year the standardized
testing scores (pre and post) are broadly the same, then perhaps the
issue there is the purpose or the purposes of adult literacy education
where "growth" (a Deweyan metaphor of intriguing consequences) does take
place over time, typically in ways that are subtle, but not so
effectively "measured" by the various "instruments" available to
document such impact.

 

Pragmatically we need to come up with some workable solutions that at
least move toward viable mid-level solutions, but to the extent that
broader definitions of the meaning and purpose of adult literacy
education is more clearly and realistically built into policy
formulations we're going to remain stymied in the most fundamental sense
even when some progress is being made in sharpening our understanding of
assessment tools and fitting them into our programs.  Such latter work
is essential, though I think it's important that we not allow various
mystifications that we are actually measuring literacy growth (when we
haven't defined the terms) to seep in, such as, for example, the
conflation between reading and literacy.

 

Best,
 
George Demetrion



________________________________


From: nfaux at vcu.edu
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:07:48 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1520] Re: Getting staff used to using data



Hi Barry,

Could you please explain how you are correlating student attendance and
retention with teacher participation in professional development, or the
workshops that you offer?  We are exploring ways of doing this, also.

Nancy





*********************************************************
Nancy R. Faux
ESOL Specialist
Virginia Adult Learning Resource Center
Virginia Commonwealth University
3600 W. Broad Street, Suite 669
Richmond, VA 23230-4930
nfaux at vcu.edu
http://www.valrc.org
1-800-237-0178

 

-----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----

To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
From: "Bakin, Barry" <barry.bakin at lausd.net>
Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
Date: 12/11/2008 12:06PM
Subject: [Assessment 1510] Re: Getting staff used to using data

Data is not just for classroom instructional staff to analyze. Our staff
meeting yesterday(of teacher trainers responsible for staff
development)focused on using attendance and ADA statistics collected
since 1999 as a way to determine whether or not our team's staff
development efforts over the last several years has resulted in
increases in student attendance and retention by students whose teachers
have taken staff development workshops. We have an immediate and
pressing interest for doing so, as expected district-wide budget
shortfalls of millions of dollars are leading some at the district level
to advocate for the elimination of staff-development programs in the
coming year.  We obviously feel that teachers who improve their skills
will retain students better than those who don't, but we'd like to be
able to point to data that demonstrates that.

Barry Bakin
ESL Teacher Adviser
Division of Adult and Career Education
Los Angeles Unified School District
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to nfaux at vcu.edu

 


 



This message contains confidential information and is intended for the individual to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. 
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From cathayreta at sbcglobal.net  Fri Dec 12 15:12:17 2008
From: cathayreta at sbcglobal.net (Cathay Reta)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:12:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Assessment 1527] Re: Demetrion's comments on Pragmatic Solutions
In-Reply-To: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870D6360D3@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
Message-ID: <500066.93269.qm@web82701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Well said, George and Jim.? Now how do we collectively demonstrate our students' successes, therefore our program's success, to funders?? 
?
I was administer of a small program when the National Reporting System was implemented and we were mandated to use CASAS testing to continue to receive WIA funding.? I, along with a number of colleagues, informed the state we would not be accepting WIA funds any longer because of philosophical differences in use of the tests.? We would not do that to our students, thank you very much.? Of course I laid out all of the reasons for that and it was a powerful statement (I think).? But in looking back I realize it lost all of its "teeth" because I had nothing to offer in lieu of the standardized tests to show funds coming to my program were a good investment.? I think this is where we, as a field, fall short.? We need to be ready to not just respond, but to be proactive in stating, "Our programs work.? Here's the evidence we can give you."
?
Humbly,
?
Cathay


--- On Fri, 12/12/08, Schneider, Jim <jschneider at eicc.edu> wrote:

From: Schneider, Jim <jschneider at eicc.edu>
Subject: [Assessment 1526] Demetrion's comments on Pragmatic Solutions
To: gdemetrion at msn.com, "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 11:28 AM









<Pragmatically we need to come up with some workable solutions that at least move toward viable mid-level solutions, but to the extent that broader definitions of the meaning and purpose of adult literacy education is more clearly and realistically built into policy formulations we're going to remain stymied in the most fundamental sense even when some progress is being made in sharpening our understanding of assessment tools and fitting them into our programs.? Such latter work is essential, though I think it's important that we not allow various mystifications that we are actually measuring literacy growth (when we haven't defined the terms) to seep in, such as, for example, the conflation between reading and literacy. Best, George Demetrion>
?
AMEN! 
?
The field was hijacked in 1998 by the implementation of the NRS. We were hypnotized (or hit over the head as the case may be), by the notion that standardized assessments and procedures were reliable, valid measures of the skills possessed by learners at entry, as well as a reliable, valid measure of the learning that occurs in the classroom. 
?
Unfortunately our learners were not similarly hypnotized and come to us with a wide range of learning difficulties, negative emotions and anxiety about testing, and varying levels of focus and concentration when taking the assessments. Little wonder that some learners look severely impaired upon entry and attain their GED in a matter of weeks ? quite capable of knowing which assessments really matter to them, and which are merely ?busy work?? required to gain entry to the program. Or why other learners look amazingly capable upon entry only to wallow in the classroom for weeks, months and/or years when the reality of the high-stakes tests cause their minds to lock-up like a Microsoft program.
?
Once upon a time, the field operated under broader definitions of the meaning and purpose of adult literacy education.I fear that those days are long gone. However, Mr. Demetrion?s call for realistic policy formations and recognizing the mystifications (isn?t this a great word?) of our current fixation on standardized tests as the only possible measure of learner gains and accomplishments is a welcome sight for these weary eyes. All the discussion regarding accountability and program improvement would be so much more palatable if the funding to achieve it was commensurate. 
?
Jim Schneider
?


From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of gdemetrion at msn.com
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 7:48 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1523] Re: Getting staff used to using data
?
Good morning all,
?
One of the dilemmas of taking on such studies is that of creating another level of work, and therefore time allocation which in turn would need justification and therefore "evidence" that such time expenditure is a worthy fiscal investment, often when time and money are scarce commodities.
?
On the question at hand, I'm wondering to what extent such correlations can be made when (a) there are so many intervening variables, and (b) when relationships between professional development and direct program improvement are typically longer term and? perhaps more typically reflect changes in the "softer" organizational climate of a learning organization.? This is not to deny that there can be some direct impacts, which in principle, can be measurable at least in some instances, though I'd be weary of justifying PD on such terms (cost-benefits metaphors--and let's not forget the metaphorical dimension of language in play here). I think broader arguments can be made for Professional Development which perhaps can be drawn in from research both in our own field (NCSALL has done some work here as have other institutes) and in other fields.? One needs to consider as well, the quality, content, and context in which PD takes place, how it?is
 internalized within the thinking and practice of practitioners and its role within broader adult education programs, including the organizational and pedagogical development of such organizations on a system-wide basis.? These are matters of major consequences, a discussion of which perhaps better belongs on the PD forum.
?
On assessment, if one, year after year is working with students at a broadly similar level and range, and if year after year the standardized testing scores (pre and post) are broadly the same, then perhaps the issue there is the purpose or the purposes of adult literacy education where "growth" (a Deweyan metaphor of intriguing consequences) does take place over time, typically in ways that are subtle, but not so effectively "measured" by the various "instruments" available to document such impact.
?
Pragmatically we need to come up with some workable solutions that at least move toward viable mid-level solutions, but to the extent that broader definitions of the meaning and purpose of adult literacy education is more clearly and realistically built into policy formulations we're going to remain stymied in the most fundamental sense even when some progress is being made in sharpening our understanding of assessment tools and fitting them into our programs.? Such latter work is essential, though I think it's important that we not allow various mystifications that we are actually measuring literacy growth (when we haven't defined the terms) to seep in, such as, for example, the conflation between reading and literacy.
?
Best,
?
George Demetrion






From: nfaux at vcu.edu
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:07:48 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1520] Re: Getting staff used to using data



Hi Barry,

Could you please explain how you are correlating student attendance and retention with teacher participation in professional development, or the workshops that you offer? ?We are exploring ways of doing this, also.

Nancy





*********************************************************
Nancy R. Faux
ESOL Specialist
Virginia Adult Learning Resource Center
Virginia Commonwealth University
3600 W. Broad Street, Suite 669
Richmond, VA 23230-4930
nfaux at vcu.edu
http://www.valrc.org
1-800-237-0178

?
-----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
From: "Bakin, Barry" <barry.bakin at lausd.net>
Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
Date: 12/11/2008 12:06PM
Subject: [Assessment 1510] Re: Getting staff used to using data

Data is not just for classroom instructional staff to analyze. Our staff meeting yesterday(of teacher trainers responsible for staff development)focused on using attendance and ADA statistics collected since 1999 as a way to determine whether or not our team's staff development efforts over the last several years has resulted in increases in student attendance and retention by students whose teachers have taken staff development workshops. We have an immediate and pressing interest for doing so, as expected district-wide budget shortfalls of millions of dollars are leading some at the district level to advocate for the elimination of staff-development programs in the coming year. ?We obviously feel that teachers who improve their skills will retain students better than those who don't, but we'd like to be able to point to data that demonstrates that.

Barry Bakin
ESL Teacher Adviser
Division of Adult and Career Education
Los Angeles Unified School District
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to nfaux at vcu.edu
?


This message contains confidential information and is intended for the individual to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. -------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
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Email delivered to cathayreta at sbcglobal.net
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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Fri Dec 12 16:34:51 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:34:51 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1528]  Another resource for data discussion
Message-ID: <002101c95ca1$77dc34e0$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Hi everyone,

 

The 'open enrollment' discussion thread made me think that it would be good
to post one of the case studies from Module 1 Data Collection and
Management.  You can find it now at:

 

http://dev.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/08data.html (you might need
to refresh the page to see the new info)

 

Look in the section Review the Model Program Case Studies for Literacy
Volunteers of Massachusetts in Boston.

 

The case study has a list of the information (data) that they collect in
their program.  I hope you find it interesting. 

 

Marie

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From gdemetrion at msn.com  Fri Dec 12 16:55:17 2008
From: gdemetrion at msn.com (gdemetrion at msn.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:55:17 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1529] Re: Demetrion's comments on Pragmatic Solutions
In-Reply-To: <500066.93269.qm@web82701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB870D6360D3@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
	<500066.93269.qm@web82701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY103-W299E2E769D319E9B8A212CC5F90@phx.gbl>


Thank you Cathay and Jim,
 
I think we need to utilize all the mediating stratgies we can, including CASAS assessments, which program managers can draw upon as an indicator of learning development, however one may use the term. And the concern aboutgetting top heavy with qualitative documentation is all too much. There is simply no end to the qualitative process take it from someone who knows.  However, what about using video vignettes, which may the  be placed on-line where students can describe what they have learned and something about the process they have been working through, sometimes over multiple years.
 
The whole issue of what is literacy is something the field has been grappling with since the modernization thesis of the post Cold War Era and Paulo Freire's world shaking polemic(meant in the best sense of the term) Pedagogy of the Oppressed. (BTW, someone, perhaps Andres  should be working on a 40 year assessment review of that book.  What does it mean  in the land of literacy that we are entering the Obama era and how does Freire factor in?).
 
In terms of the relationship between reading and literacy, that is a complex issue, and to draw on a term we don't use much anymore, a contestable ine at that.
 
Nonetheless, I sketched out a framework for a research project in my much under-read essay,Postpositivist Scientitific Philosophy: Mediating Convergences http://www.the-rathouse.com/Postpositivism.htm.  I won't bore the list with a discussion of this piece, but I will post my 19 hypotheses which require a great deal of testing and research, which if taken on, would ,I believe, go a long way toward working out some of that complex relationship between reading mastery and literacy development that, conceivably could be fleshed out through a collaborative research project  See below,
 
George Demetrion
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
Recall the provisional statements about adult literacy education based upon Nivcholas Rescher?s ?duly-hedged synthesis? as a first-cut resolution to our problem, which fuses elements of learning to read with that of learning to learn.  
 
1.      I. Literacy facilitates knowledge acquisition in the grappling with and mastery of print-based texts.
2.      II. Literacy is enhanced to the extent to which individuals gain the capacity to read and write print-based texts.
III. Growth in literacy is experienced to the extent to which readers progressively comprehend and draw meaning from texts and appropriate them into their lives.
4.      IV. Literacy has a technological component in the mastery of reading, writing and the comprehension of texts and a metaphorical dimension that resides in transactions between the reader and the text in which meaning making and significance lies beyond the text into that of appropriation, however variously that may be defined.
 
Each of these statements, as working hypotheses requires additional clarification, including the grappling with new contradictions that may arise as the investigative proceeds.  Let us take these statements one at a time.
 
Literacy facilitates knowledge acquisition in the grappling with and mastery of print-based texts.
 
?           1. Knowledge acquisition may refer to understanding and progressively attaining the skills and knowledge needed for the technical mastery of reading and writing.
?           2. Literacy may refer to the enhanced ability to read to the extent of providing an independent resource that students can apply to texts that they encounter either in the instructional program or outside of it without assistance from others.
?           3. Knowledge acquisition may refer to the mastery of the content of print-based texts at varying levels of literal and inferential comprehension.
?           4. Literacy may refer to the knowledge needed for such acquisition regardless as to how much or how little a student learns to read.
?          5.  While both learning to read and learning to learn are valid indicators of literacy, educators need to determine where priorities should be placed in terms of various student need and ability and what focal points of concentration stimulate what aspects of learning for any given student or groups of students.  
 
Literacy is enhanced to the extent to which individuals gain the capacity to read and write print-based texts.
 
?           6. If not by definition, it is at least a strong inference among most adult literacy educators and students that literacy includes the ability to read and write print-based texts and may even be its main purpose.
?           7. All things being equal, increased capacity to read and write texts enhances literacy, whether a literal or metaphorical definition of literacy is adopted.
?           8.  The extent to which adult literacy students increase their ability to read print-based texts varies widely.  Such variability needs to be factored into the reading and writing aspects of a given program and corresponding modes of assessment and accountability regardless of reading methodologies and the instructional content selected.
 
Growth in literacy is experienced to the extent to which readers progressively comprehend and draw meaning from texts and appropriate them into their lives.
 
?           9, The capacity to comprehend and draw meaning from print-based texts in a supportive instructional environment does not depend on the ability to read the text independently.
?           10. Students who have enhanced their ability to read and write have gained additional skills in comprehending and drawing meaning from texts in their ability to study independently.  As a general rule, this capacity enhances a student?s mastery of the content embedded in printed texts.
?           11. There may or may not be any intrinsic correlations between comprehending the authorial meaning(s) of a text and a student drawing meaning from it.  While literacy may be enhanced through either, as a general rule, it is strengthened most so when reasonable inferences between the two can be made.
 
Literacy has a technological component in the mastery of reading, writing and the comprehension of texts, and a metaphorical dimension that resides in transactions between the reader and the text in which meaning making and significance lies beyond the text into that of appropriation, however variously that may be defined.
 
?           11. Literacy, in the most comprehensive of definitions includes both the technological mastery of reading and writing, along with that of comprehension and deriving meaning from print-based texts.
?          13.  Taking the capacities of students into account, literacy progresses most when all of these dimensions are factored in, in which none of them serves as the privileged foundation of the definition.
?           14. Even adults who remain at beginning levels of reading and writing ability who do not even come to approximating independent fluency can benefit as a result of the progress they achieve in the areas of comprehension and meaning making, although how durable such learning is and its significance requires much research.
?           15. The extent to which even advanced students who progress in their reading and writing benefit in doing so also requires discriminating analysis.  The salience to which gains in reading ability short of the GED certification open up opportunity structures for life improvement requires careful analysis in which the separation of variables may prove difficult.
?          16,  Even if little in the realm of opportunity structures is attained, being able to read, write, and comprehend print-based texts and appropriating such knowledge for one?s own purposes has a certain value in itself (although how much so remains in question) as a form of self development that may or may not have broader societal impact.  
?           17. What is determined as efficacious in relation to adult literacy education may have as much to do with values of individual students and programs that seek to support them as with specific impacts subject to objective forms of direct measurability.
?           18. Literacy is a cultural metaphor of considerable pluralistic range and scope of knowledge acquisition that includes the technical capacity of reading and writing as an important, but undetermined variable of the broader definition encapsulated in the term, ?multiliteracies.?
?           19. Definitions of literacy that programs appropriate will be shaped by the sum total of cultural, social, political, economic, and intellectual influences interacting on them.  In short, the cultural matrix as a variant in adult literacy education is unavoidable.
 

1.      



Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:12:17 -0800From: cathayreta at sbcglobal.netTo: assessment at nifl.govSubject: [Assessment 1527] Re: Demetrion's comments on Pragmatic Solutions




Well said, George and Jim.  Now how do we collectively demonstrate our students' successes, therefore our program's success, to funders?  
 
I was administer of a small program when the National Reporting System was implemented and we were mandated to use CASAS testing to continue to receive WIA funding.  I, along with a number of colleagues, informed the state we would not be accepting WIA funds any longer because of philosophical differences in use of the tests.  We would not do that to our students, thank you very much.  Of course I laid out all of the reasons for that and it was a powerful statement (I think).  But in looking back I realize it lost all of its "teeth" because I had nothing to offer in lieu of the standardized tests to show funds coming to my program were a good investment.  I think this is where we, as a field, fall short.  We need to be ready to not just respond, but to be proactive in stating, "Our programs work.  Here's the evidence we can give you."
 
Humbly,
 
Cathay--- On Fri, 12/12/08, Schneider, Jim <jschneider at eicc.edu> wrote:
From: Schneider, Jim <jschneider at eicc.edu>Subject: [Assessment 1526] Demetrion's comments on Pragmatic SolutionsTo: gdemetrion at msn.com, "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 11:28 AM





<Pragmatically we need to come up with some workable solutions that at least move toward viable mid-level solutions, but to the extent that broader definitions of the meaning and purpose of adult literacy education is more clearly and realistically built into policy formulations we're going to remain stymied in the most fundamental sense even when some progress is being made in sharpening our understanding of assessment tools and fitting them into our programs.  Such latter work is essential, though I think it's important that we not allow various mystifications that we are actually measuring literacy growth (when we haven't defined the terms) to seep in, such as, for example, the conflation between reading and literacy. Best, George Demetrion>
 
AMEN! 
 

The field was hijacked in 1998 by the implementation of the NRS. We were hypnotized (or hit over the head as the case may be), by the notion that standardized assessments and procedures were reliable, valid measures of the skills possessed by learners at entry, as well as a reliable, valid measure of the learning that occurs in the classroom. 

 

Unfortunately our learners were not similarly hypnotized and come to us with a wide range of learning difficulties, negative emotions and anxiety about testing, and varying levels of focus and concentration when taking the assessments. Little wonder that some learners look severely impaired upon entry and attain their GED in a matter of weeks ? quite capable of knowing which assessments really matter to them, and which are merely ?busy work?  required to gain entry to the program. Or why other learners look amazingly capable upon entry only to wallow in the classroom for weeks, months and/or years when the reality of the high-stakes tests cause their minds to lock-up like a Microsoft program.

 

Once upon a time, the field operated under broader definitions of the meaning and purpose of adult literacy education.I fear that those days are long gone. However, Mr. Demetrion?s call for realistic policy formations and recognizing the mystifications (isn?t this a great word?) of our current fixation on standardized tests as the only possible measure of learner gains and accomplishments is a welcome sight for these weary eyes. All the discussion regarding accountability and program improvement would be so much more palatable if the funding to achieve it was commensurate. 

 

Jim Schneider

 



From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of gdemetrion at msn.comSent: Friday, December 12, 2008 7:48 AMTo: assessment at nifl.govSubject: [Assessment 1523] Re: Getting staff used to using data

 

Good morning all, 

One of the dilemmas of taking on such studies is that of creating another level of work, and therefore time allocation which in turn would need justification and therefore "evidence" that such time expenditure is a worthy fiscal investment, often when time and money are scarce commodities.

 

On the question at hand, I'm wondering to what extent such correlations can be made when (a) there are so many intervening variables, and (b) when relationships between professional development and direct program improvement are typically longer term and  perhaps more typically reflect changes in the "softer" organizational climate of a learning organization.  This is not to deny that there can be some direct impacts, which in principle, can be measurable at least in some instances, though I'd be weary of justifying PD on such terms (cost-benefits metaphors--and let's not forget the metaphorical dimension of language in play here). I think broader arguments can be made for Professional Development which perhaps can be drawn in from research both in our own field (NCSALL has done some work here as have other institutes) and in other fields.  One needs to consider as well, the quality, content, and context in which PD takes place, how it is internalized within the thinking and practice of practitioners and its role within broader adult education programs, including the organizational and pedagogical development of such organizations on a system-wide basis.  These are matters of major consequences, a discussion of which perhaps better belongs on the PD forum.

 

On assessment, if one, year after year is working with students at a broadly similar level and range, and if year after year the standardized testing scores (pre and post) are broadly the same, then perhaps the issue there is the purpose or the purposes of adult literacy education where "growth" (a Deweyan metaphor of intriguing consequences) does take place over time, typically in ways that are subtle, but not so effectively "measured" by the various "instruments" available to document such impact.

 

Pragmatically we need to come up with some workable solutions that at least move toward viable mid-level solutions, but to the extent that broader definitions of the meaning and purpose of adult literacy education is more clearly and realistically built into policy formulations we're going to remain stymied in the most fundamental sense even when some progress is being made in sharpening our understanding of assessment tools and fitting them into our programs.  Such latter work is essential, though I think it's important that we not allow various mystifications that we are actually measuring literacy growth (when we haven't defined the terms) to seep in, such as, for example, the conflation between reading and literacy.

 

Best, George Demetrion




From: nfaux at vcu.eduTo: assessment at nifl.govDate: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:07:48 -0500Subject: [Assessment 1520] Re: Getting staff used to using data


Hi Barry,Could you please explain how you are correlating student attendance and retention with teacher participation in professional development, or the workshops that you offer?  We are exploring ways of doing this, also.Nancy

*********************************************************Nancy R. FauxESOL SpecialistVirginia Adult Learning Resource CenterVirginia Commonwealth University3600 W. Broad Street, Suite 669Richmond, VA 23230-4930nfaux at vcu.eduhttp://www.valrc.org1-800-237-0178

 

-----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----

To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>From: "Bakin, Barry" <barry.bakin at lausd.net>Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.govDate: 12/11/2008 12:06PMSubject: [Assessment 1510] Re: Getting staff used to using dataData is not just for classroom instructional staff to analyze. Our staff meeting yesterday(of teacher trainers responsible for staff development)focused on using attendance and ADA statistics collected since 1999 as a way to determine whether or not our team's staff development efforts over the last several years has resulted in increases in student attendance and retention by students whose teachers have taken staff development workshops. We have an immediate and pressing interest for doing so, as expected district-wide budget shortfalls of millions of dollars are leading some at the district level to advocate for the elimination of staff-development programs in the coming year.  We obviously feel that teachers who improve their skills will retain students better than those who don't, but we'd like to be able to point to data that demonstrates that.Barry BakinESL Teacher AdviserDivision of Adult and Career EducationLos Angeles Unified School District-------------------------------National Institute for LiteracyAssessment mailing listAssessment at nifl.govTo unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessmentEmail delivered to nfaux at vcu.edu

 






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From vgigliotti at proliteracy.org  Thu Dec 11 15:24:24 2008
From: vgigliotti at proliteracy.org (Val Gigliotti)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:24:24 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1530]  Grants for Instructional Materials Available
Message-ID: <DBF40CF21F685B45B1D163F82E43A221A4D5CD@miller.proliteracy.org>

> Applications are now being accepted for grants from
> the Charles Evans Book Fund!
> The Charles Evans Book Fund is a special program of ProLiteracy> '> s National Book Fund,? a program that supplies local programs with adult literacy and basic education curricula and materials. The Charles Evans Book Fund, dedicated to improving the lives of people who are homeless, was established with a generous grant from the Charles Evans Foundation in honor of the life and philanthropy of the late Charles Evans.
> Non-profit organizations that provide adult literacy or basic education services for people who are homeless are eligible to apply for a Charles Evans Book Fund grant from ProLiteracy. Grants typically range between $3,000 and $8,000, but may be smaller or larger depending on the needs of the applicant organization. Grants are in the form of vouchers for teaching materials and products from ProLiteracy> '> s publishing division, New Readers Press. 
> In addition to literacy instructional and reading materials, New Readers Press also produces many materials to help individuals with life skills such as applying for a job, parenting, obtaining a driver> '> s license, and others. 
> Applications are now being accepted by mail and must be postmarked no later than January 23, 2009 to be considered. For grant guidelines, applications, and additional information, go to http://www.proliteracy.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=484&srcid=191
> 
> 
> Valerie Gigliotti
> ProLiteracy
> 1320 Jamesville Ave.
> Syracuse, NY  13210
> 315 422 9121 x225
> http://www.proliteracy.org
> 
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From marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com  Mon Dec 15 12:12:19 2008
From: marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com (Marie Cora)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:12:19 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1531]  Discussion Thanks!
Message-ID: <01fe01c95ed8$4a63ef60$0202a8c0@LITNOW>

Dear Subscribers, 

 

I would like to thank our guests Donielle Cole, Vivian Copsey, Cathay Reta,
and Lori Keefer from last week's discussion on data.  I would also like to
thank subscribers who posted their questions and comments.  It was an
interesting discussion, I hope that people found it and the resources
helpful.  I will send email to the List to let you know when the transcript
has been prepared and posted.

 

Thanks everyone!

 

Marie

 

 

 

Marie Cora, Moderator

Assessment Discussion List 

National Institute for Literacy 

Email me at:  marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com

Subscribe at:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment

 

Coordinator of Assessment  

Program Planning Resource Collection

National Institute for Literacy 

Visit at:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/resourcecollections/resource_collections.html

 

 

 

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From gdemetrion at msn.com  Mon Dec 15 12:40:16 2008
From: gdemetrion at msn.com (George Demetrion)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:40:16 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1532]  FW: [Odnet] OD and ROI
In-Reply-To: <380-220081261301343330@earthlink.net>
References: <380-220081261301343330@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BAY122-W4933E531E83D2DABB94EA8C5F40@phx.gbl>




Folks, I thought this message on the relationship between organizational development and return on investment, from the Organizational Development Network Listserv has some interesting parallels with our discussion on the relationship between professional developments and direct student outcomes.  Go here for information on the OD Network http://www.odnetwork.org/resources/discussions/index.php Best, George Demetrion> From: > To: odnet at lists.odnetwork.org> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:13:43 -0800> Subject: Re: [Odnet] OD and ROI> > > It's unfortunate the terminology "ROI" ever got started with regards to OD.> ROI means Return on Investment. Return is the revenue received from an> investment. An ROI analysis is used to determine the revenues expected> from an investment in a product. > > An organization must invest in many other things other than the products> (or services) it sells. For lack of another term, I'll use the term> infrastructure. Infrastructure investments include, for example,> buildings, computers, light bulbs, salaries, training, legal fees, postage,> and a whole host of expenses that have these characteristics:> 1. The are expended to stay in business or to enhance the business> 2. There is no direct line-of-sight connection with revenues or profits. > There's no "proof" that spending more will increase revenues or profits. If> there's an obvious connection, it's only one of many factors contributing> to the revenues or profits. > > Investing in OD work never produces revenues directly. Sometimes there can> be a connection drawn with revenues or profits but even then the connection> is not very tight. Thus OD never (I would say) produces a return on> investment. Let's stop using that term!> > What actually happens is this: A manager believes that a certain activity> (whether it's a socio-techical analysis or a leadership coaching initiative> or painting the walls a different color or upgrading the computer system)> will have a beneficial impact and is willing to invest in that activity. > As someone else mentioned, the true measure of value, then, is whether the> activity had the effect that was expected. > > And it's the role of the manager (not the role of the OD consultant) to> articulate the expectation at the outset of the engagement. > > Where we really get ourselves in a pickle is when we accept the role of> trying to "prove" that the OD engagement had a "return" on investment after> the fact?> > 
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From barry.bakin at lausd.net  Mon Dec 15 19:20:31 2008
From: barry.bakin at lausd.net (Bakin, Barry)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 16:20:31 -0800
Subject: [Assessment 1533] Re: Getting staff used to using data
In-Reply-To: <OF6FDA530C.AC2171EA-ON8525751C.006A407A-8525751C.006A6B33@vcu.edu>
References: <D7D008D5A3EAF6478CF0328F18E6639B91AE33@MAILBE-LA13.lausd.net>
	<OF6FDA530C.AC2171EA-ON8525751C.006A407A-8525751C.006A6B33@vcu.edu>
Message-ID: <D7D008D5A3EAF6478CF0328F18E6639BB5A9DB@MAILBE-LA13.lausd.net>

The attempt to correlate student attendance and retention with teacher
participation in professional development is still in very preliminary
stages and a professional statistician might say that we're going about
it in the wrong way but one aspect of what is being discussed relates to
a "retention" score being looked at that is derived from the total
number of hours all students enrolled in a class could potentially have
attended during a certain time period (if all of those students had
attended every hour from the time they had enrolled to the time they
left the course or the specified time period was reached) divided by the
actual hours those same students attended.  So let's say that some 42
students could have attended a maximum total of 3000 hours of class time
during the time period being examined.  The actual attendance of those
students during that time period was 1500 hours.  1500 total actual
hours divided by 3000 total possible hours gives a 50 percent figure. By
doing the same calculation for every class offered, a division-wide
"average retention" figure can be established for a particular type of
class.


The idea is that by identifying teachers who have taken staff
development courses, and then looking at their individual average
retention figure "pre" and "post" training, the effect of the training
on an individual teacher's retention might be demonstrated and in turn
the effect on all teachers who have attended trainings as a group.  I'm
not sure what variables other than the training are being considered.
Again, these ideas are all preliminary and experimental so they're not
for wider dissemination.  It would obviously be preferable to have a
controlled double-blind study but that seems to be out of reach at the
moment...

 

Barry

 

 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Nancy R Faux/AC/VCU
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:23 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1521] Re: Getting staff used to using data

 


Hi Barry, 

Could you please explain how you are correlating student attendance and
retention with teacher participation in professional development, or the
workshops that you offer?  We are exploring ways of doing this, also. 

Nancy 

*********************************************************
Nancy R. Faux
ESOL Specialist
Virginia Adult Learning Resource Center
Virginia Commonwealth University
3600 W. Broad Street, Suite 669
Richmond, VA 23230-4930
nfaux at vcu.edu
http://www.valrc.org
1-800-237-0178 <http://www.valrc.org/>  



"Bakin, Barry" <barry.bakin at lausd.net> 
Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 

12/11/2008 12:21 PM 

Please respond to
The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>

To

"The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov> 

cc

 

Subject

[Assessment 1510] Re: Getting staff used to using data

 

 

 




Data is not just for classroom instructional staff to analyze. Our staff
meeting yesterday(of teacher trainers responsible for staff
development)focused on using attendance and ADA statistics collected
since 1999 as a way to determine whether or not our team's staff
development efforts over the last several years has resulted in
increases in student attendance and retention by students whose teachers
have taken staff development workshops. We have an immediate and
pressing interest for doing so, as expected district-wide budget
shortfalls of millions of dollars are leading some at the district level
to advocate for the elimination of staff-development programs in the
coming year.  We obviously feel that teachers who improve their skills
will retain students better than those who don't, but we'd like to be
able to point to data that demonstrates that.

Barry Bakin
ESL Teacher Adviser
Division of Adult and Career Education
Los Angeles Unified School District
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to nfaux at vcu.edu
<http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> 

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From jackie.coelho at gmail.com  Tue Dec 16 08:55:56 2008
From: jackie.coelho at gmail.com (Jackie Coelho)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 08:55:56 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1534] Re: Getting staff used to using data
In-Reply-To: <D7D008D5A3EAF6478CF0328F18E6639BB5A9DB@MAILBE-LA13.lausd.net>
References: <D7D008D5A3EAF6478CF0328F18E6639B91AE33@MAILBE-LA13.lausd.net>
	<OF6FDA530C.AC2171EA-ON8525751C.006A407A-8525751C.006A6B33@vcu.edu>
	<D7D008D5A3EAF6478CF0328F18E6639BB5A9DB@MAILBE-LA13.lausd.net>
Message-ID: <1dd5701e0812160555s607e7dd4h2ca4ae30f15d3d84@mail.gmail.com>

Barry,
  Thanks for explaining that. I think there are so many variables that any
study of this nature needs to be considered very carefully. For example, of
what quality was the professional development? Was the information in the
professional development used by the instructor? How many of the students in
a particular class would have dropped out regardless of what the instructor
does due to life circumstances? Is is possible that the professional
development had a negative impact?
  I am not a statistician, but I imagine some of these variables could be
accounted for with a large enough sample. However, my question would be, how
large would the sample have to be?
  Teaching is both an art and a science. The science part can be measured.
The art part cannot. I personally think we need to be constantly mindful of
the art of it all.
  Creating a community within a classroom, a place where students feel
connected and where they believe others care and support them, others
including their classmates, goes further than any one method or approach to
teaching material.


Jackie Coelho
ABE Instructor


On 12/15/08, Bakin, Barry <barry.bakin at lausd.net> wrote:
>
>  The attempt to correlate student attendance and retention with teacher
> participation in professional development is still in very preliminary
> stages and a professional statistician might say that we're going about it
> in the wrong way but one aspect of what is being discussed relates to a
> "retention" score being looked at that is derived from the total number of
> hours all students enrolled in a class could potentially have attended
> during a certain time period (if all of those students had attended every
> hour from the time they had enrolled to the time they  left the course or
> the specified time period was reached) divided by the actual hours those
> same students attended.  So let's say that some 42 students could have
> attended a maximum total of 3000 hours of class time during the time period
> being examined.  The actual attendance of those students during that time
> period was 1500 hours.  1500 total actual hours divided by 3000 total
> possible hours gives a 50 percent figure. By doing the same calculation for
> every class offered, a division-wide "average retention" figure can be
> established for a particular type of class.
>
>
> The idea is that by identifying teachers who have taken staff development
> courses, and then looking at their individual average retention figure "pre"
> and "post" training, the effect of the training on an individual teacher's
> retention might be demonstrated and in turn the effect on all teachers who
> have attended trainings as a group.  I'm not sure what variables other than
> the training are being considered.  Again, these ideas are all preliminary
> and experimental so they're not for wider dissemination.  It would obviously
> be preferable to have a controlled double-blind study but that seems to be
> out of reach at the moment?
>
>
>
> Barry
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] *On
> Behalf Of *Nancy R Faux/AC/VCU
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:23 AM
> *To:* The Assessment Discussion List
> *Subject:* [Assessment 1521] Re: Getting staff used to using data
>
>
>
>
> Hi Barry,
>
> Could you please explain how you are correlating student attendance and
> retention with teacher participation in professional development, or the
> workshops that you offer?  We are exploring ways of doing this, also.
>
> Nancy
>
> *********************************************************
> Nancy R. Faux
> ESOL Specialist
> Virginia Adult Learning Resource Center
> Virginia Commonwealth University
> 3600 W. Broad Street, Suite 669
> Richmond, VA 23230-4930
> nfaux at vcu.edu
> http://www.valrc.org
> 1-800-237-0178 <http://www.valrc.org/>
>
>   *"Bakin, Barry" <barry.bakin at lausd.net>*
> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>
> 12/11/2008 12:21 PM
>
> Please respond to
> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
>
>    To
>
> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
>
> cc
>
>
>
> Subject
>
> [Assessment 1510] Re: Getting staff used to using data
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Data is not just for classroom instructional staff to analyze. Our staff
> meeting yesterday(of teacher trainers responsible for staff
> development)focused on using attendance and ADA statistics collected since
> 1999 as a way to determine whether or not our team's staff development
> efforts over the last several years has resulted in increases in student
> attendance and retention by students whose teachers have taken staff
> development workshops. We have an immediate and pressing interest for doing
> so, as expected district-wide budget shortfalls of millions of dollars are
> leading some at the district level to advocate for the elimination of
> staff-development programs in the coming year.  We obviously feel that
> teachers who improve their skills will retain students better than those who
> don't, but we'd like to be able to point to data that demonstrates that.
>
> Barry Bakin
> ESL Teacher Adviser
> Division of Adult and Career Education
> Los Angeles Unified School District
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to nfaux at vcu.edu
> <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com
>
>
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From bergroger at mac.com  Tue Dec 16 12:08:03 2008
From: bergroger at mac.com (Roger Berg)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 12:08:03 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1535] Re: Getting staff to use data
Message-ID: <751539D4-63C8-44D1-BB72-27AED41F55FD@mac.com>

There appears to be the assumption that participating in professional  
development improves instruction.  I would not be surprised to find an  
small positive effect but could it be that the 'better" instructors  
attend PD while the others.....


Roger Berg
Strategic/Community Planner
Literacy Program of Greater Plymouth at the Plymouth Public Library
11 Hall Street
Plymouth, MA 02360
508 746 6345
roger_berg at mac.com
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From barry.bakin at lausd.net  Tue Dec 16 18:14:17 2008
From: barry.bakin at lausd.net (Bakin, Barry)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 15:14:17 -0800
Subject: [Assessment 1536] Re: Getting staff used to using data
In-Reply-To: <1dd5701e0812160555s607e7dd4h2ca4ae30f15d3d84@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D7D008D5A3EAF6478CF0328F18E6639B91AE33@MAILBE-LA13.lausd.net><OF6FDA530C.AC2171EA-ON8525751C.006A407A-8525751C.006A6B33@vcu.edu><D7D008D5A3EAF6478CF0328F18E6639BB5A9DB@MAILBE-LA13.lausd.net>
	<1dd5701e0812160555s607e7dd4h2ca4ae30f15d3d84@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D7D008D5A3EAF6478CF0328F18E6639BB5ABE5@MAILBE-LA13.lausd.net>

Since we're the ones providing the professional development, I can
assure you that it was of the highest quality!    

 

But yes of course, you're right.  There are many variables that would
need to be controlled for before one could be sure of a direct
relationship between professional development and attendance but this is
what we're starting with!  Having said that, one figure that is quite
interesting to us is that the number of student enrollments required to
generate 1 unit of ADA has dropped pretty dramatically in the last 8
years, but our ESL ADA has risen.  For example, in the 2000/2001 school
year there were some 189,000 ESL enrollments generating about 37,700
units of ADA meaning that it took 5.02 student enrollments to generate 1
ADA.  In 2007/2008, there were 167,800 ESL enrollments and about 40,900
units of ADA returning a figure of 4.1 enrollments per 1 ADA.  At the
least, these figures appear to indicate that at least some aspect of
efficiency has increased.  Students must be coming to class more often,
staying enrolled longer or both...


We're planning on saying it's because our teachers have been coming to
our trainings so students like the classes more and feel they're
learning more...  ;)

 

Barry

 

 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Jackie Coelho
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 5:56 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1534] Re: Getting staff used to using data

 

Barry,

  Thanks for explaining that. I think there are so many variables that
any study of this nature needs to be considered very carefully. For
example, of what quality was the professional development? Was the
information in the professional development used by the instructor? How
many of the students in a particular class would have dropped out
regardless of what the instructor does due to life circumstances? Is is
possible that the professional development had a negative impact? 

  I am not a statistician, but I imagine some of these variables could
be accounted for with a large enough sample. However, my question would
be, how large would the sample have to be? 

  Teaching is both an art and a science. The science part can be
measured. The art part cannot. I personally think we need to be
constantly mindful of the art of it all. 

  Creating a community within a classroom, a place where students feel
connected and where they believe others care and support them, others
including their classmates, goes further than any one method or approach
to teaching material. 

  

 

Jackie Coelho

ABE Instructor

 

On 12/15/08, Bakin, Barry <barry.bakin at lausd.net> wrote: 

The attempt to correlate student attendance and retention with teacher
participation in professional development is still in very preliminary
stages and a professional statistician might say that we're going about
it in the wrong way but one aspect of what is being discussed relates to
a "retention" score being looked at that is derived from the total
number of hours all students enrolled in a class could potentially have
attended during a certain time period (if all of those students had
attended every hour from the time they had enrolled to the time they
left the course or the specified time period was reached) divided by the
actual hours those same students attended.  So let's say that some 42
students could have attended a maximum total of 3000 hours of class time
during the time period being examined.  The actual attendance of those
students during that time period was 1500 hours.  1500 total actual
hours divided by 3000 total possible hours gives a 50 percent figure. By
doing the same calculation for every class offered, a division-wide
"average retention" figure can be established for a particular type of
class.


The idea is that by identifying teachers who have taken staff
development courses, and then looking at their individual average
retention figure "pre" and "post" training, the effect of the training
on an individual teacher's retention might be demonstrated and in turn
the effect on all teachers who have attended trainings as a group.  I'm
not sure what variables other than the training are being considered.
Again, these ideas are all preliminary and experimental so they're not
for wider dissemination.  It would obviously be preferable to have a
controlled double-blind study but that seems to be out of reach at the
moment...

 

Barry

 

 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Nancy R Faux/AC/VCU
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:23 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1521] Re: Getting staff used to using data

 


Hi Barry, 

Could you please explain how you are correlating student attendance and
retention with teacher participation in professional development, or the
workshops that you offer?  We are exploring ways of doing this, also. 

Nancy 

*********************************************************
Nancy R. Faux
ESOL Specialist
Virginia Adult Learning Resource Center
Virginia Commonwealth University
3600 W. Broad Street, Suite 669
Richmond, VA 23230-4930
nfaux at vcu.edu
http://www.valrc.org
1-800-237-0178 <http://www.valrc.org/>  

"Bakin, Barry" <barry.bakin at lausd.net> 
Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 

12/11/2008 12:21 PM 

Please respond to
The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>

To

"The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov> 

cc

 

Subject

[Assessment 1510] Re: Getting staff used to using data

 

 

 




Data is not just for classroom instructional staff to analyze. Our staff
meeting yesterday(of teacher trainers responsible for staff
development)focused on using attendance and ADA statistics collected
since 1999 as a way to determine whether or not our team's staff
development efforts over the last several years has resulted in
increases in student attendance and retention by students whose teachers
have taken staff development workshops. We have an immediate and
pressing interest for doing so, as expected district-wide budget
shortfalls of millions of dollars are leading some at the district level
to advocate for the elimination of staff-development programs in the
coming year.  We obviously feel that teachers who improve their skills
will retain students better than those who don't, but we'd like to be
able to point to data that demonstrates that.

Barry Bakin
ESL Teacher Adviser
Division of Adult and Career Education
Los Angeles Unified School District
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to nfaux at vcu.edu
<http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> 


-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to jackie.coelho at gmail.com

 

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From DJRosen at theworld.com  Tue Dec 16 22:59:55 2008
From: DJRosen at theworld.com (David J. Rosen)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:59:55 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1537] Re: Getting staff used to using data
References: <D7D008D5A3EAF6478CF0328F18E6639B91AE33@MAILBE-LA13.lausd.net><OF6FDA530C.AC2171EA-ON8525751C.006A407A-8525751C.006A6B33@vcu.edu>
	<D7D008D5A3EAF6478CF0328F18E6639BB5A9DB@MAILBE-LA13.lausd.net>
Message-ID: <918DC01E791F4D03B42ACF618EE50F76@A1411>

Hi Barry and others,

Of course, teachers who sign up for (voluntary?) PD might be the kind of teachers who actively seek solutions to teaching/learning problems. It may be that you are measuring the relationship between learners' retention and their teachers' motivation to solve classroom problems, not increased (or decreased) retention as a result of the professional development itself. 

It is difficult to isolate variables in adult ed. One of the hardest to isolate is teacher training. I think the most promising way to measure impact of teacher training on learner outcomes is in a content or skills area where a control group has a teacher with little knowledge and no training in the area being measured and the experimental group has a teacher who gets specific teacher training (including training on content and skills for herself) in the area. Learning outcomes in that area are then measured and compared for both groups of learners. 

Not perfect, of course, but it has potential. Numeracy and certain computer skills might be two such learning/teaching areas where a control group teacher does not have skills or knowledge and where an experimental group teacher gets specific training related to teaching numeracy or computer skills (such as student web page design, or using a classroom wiki or a blog to promote writing).

Has anyone tried an experiment like this?

David J. Rosen
djrosen at theworld.com
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bakin, Barry 
  To: The Assessment Discussion List 
  Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 7:20 PM
  Subject: [Assessment 1533] Re: Getting staff used to using data


  The attempt to correlate student attendance and retention with teacher participation in professional development is still in very preliminary stages and a professional statistician might say that we're going about it in the wrong way but one aspect of what is being discussed relates to a "retention" score being looked at that is derived from the total number of hours all students enrolled in a class could potentially have attended during a certain time period (if all of those students had attended every hour from the time they had enrolled to the time they  left the course or the specified time period was reached) divided by the actual hours those same students attended.  So let's say that some 42 students could have attended a maximum total of 3000 hours of class time during the time period being examined.  The actual attendance of those students during that time period was 1500 hours.  1500 total actual hours divided by 3000 total possible hours gives a 50 percent figure. By doing the same calculation for every class offered, a division-wide "average retention" figure can be established for a particular type of class.


  The idea is that by identifying teachers who have taken staff development courses, and then looking at their individual average retention figure "pre" and "post" training, the effect of the training on an individual teacher's retention might be demonstrated and in turn the effect on all teachers who have attended trainings as a group.  I'm not sure what variables other than the training are being considered.  Again, these ideas are all preliminary and experimental so they're not for wider dissemination.  It would obviously be preferable to have a controlled double-blind study but that seems to be out of reach at the moment.

   

  Barry

   

   


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Nancy R Faux/AC/VCU
  Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:23 AM
  To: The Assessment Discussion List
  Subject: [Assessment 1521] Re: Getting staff used to using data

   


  Hi Barry, 

  Could you please explain how you are correlating student attendance and retention with teacher participation in professional development, or the workshops that you offer?  We are exploring ways of doing this, also. 

  Nancy 

  *********************************************************
  Nancy R. Faux
  ESOL Specialist
  Virginia Adult Learning Resource Center
  Virginia Commonwealth University
  3600 W. Broad Street, Suite 669
  Richmond, VA 23230-4930
  nfaux at vcu.edu
  http://www.valrc.org
  1-800-237-0178 



        "Bakin, Barry" <barry.bakin at lausd.net> 
        Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 

        12/11/2008 12:21 PM 

              Please respond to
              The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
             

       To
             "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov> 
             
              cc
              
             
              Subject
             [Assessment 1510] Re: Getting staff used to using data
             

         

               
              
             

       




  Data is not just for classroom instructional staff to analyze. Our staff meeting yesterday(of teacher trainers responsible for staff development)focused on using attendance and ADA statistics collected since 1999 as a way to determine whether or not our team's staff development efforts over the last several years has resulted in increases in student attendance and retention by students whose teachers have taken staff development workshops. We have an immediate and pressing interest for doing so, as expected district-wide budget shortfalls of millions of dollars are leading some at the district level to advocate for the elimination of staff-development programs in the coming year.  We obviously feel that teachers who improve their skills will retain students better than those who don't, but we'd like to be able to point to data that demonstrates that.

  Barry Bakin
  ESL Teacher Adviser
  Division of Adult and Career Education
  Los Angeles Unified School District
  -------------------------------
  National Institute for Literacy
  Assessment mailing list
  Assessment at nifl.gov
  To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
  Email delivered to nfaux at vcu.edu




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  -------------------------------
  National Institute for Literacy
  Assessment mailing list
  Assessment at nifl.gov
  To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
  Email delivered to djrosen at theworld.com
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From gdemetrion at msn.com  Wed Dec 17 08:43:14 2008
From: gdemetrion at msn.com (George Demetrion)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 08:43:14 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1538] Re: Getting staff used to using data
In-Reply-To: <918DC01E791F4D03B42ACF618EE50F76@A1411>
References: <D7D008D5A3EAF6478CF0328F18E6639B91AE33@MAILBE-LA13.lausd.net><OF6FDA530C.AC2171EA-ON8525751C.006A407A-8525751C.006A6B33@vcu.edu>
	<D7D008D5A3EAF6478CF0328F18E6639BB5A9DB@MAILBE-LA13.lausd.net> 
	<918DC01E791F4D03B42ACF618EE50F76@A1411>
Message-ID: <BAY103-W324489306B3F1628828401C5F20@phx.gbl>


Hello David, Barry and all,
 
David's point speaks to the importance of small case study comparative analyses, which then can provide a basis for a more extended research project. While one case study may be deemed as anecdotal, which is often characterized unjustly in pejorative terms, 10 such studies point to broader trends.
 
One of the best places to access such studies is on the National Adult Literacy Database, particularly their research base.  One of the core key challenges is to take a close look at 10-12 of such studies on a given topic and critically identify key variables evaluate broad trends.  In general, the field of adult literacy research does not yet rise to such a level of sophistication that would encourage such work--good topics for PhD programs and for folks who can dedicate a lot of unhurried quality time to such work and to make the basic insights gleaned publically accessible.
 
One of the key problems is the limitations in our research design.  The extent to which experimental design is referred to as "the goal standard," other intellectual frameworks that can and do guide quality research get subsumed within an underlying and often unconscious positivist mindset.  There is much good work, both of a theoretical and empirical nature that bespeaks of a broader vision of research and of the many values of adult literacy education.  Their lack of legitimacy is a principle stumbling block as is the need to greatly enrich both the content and methodological framework that underlies so many reports and research projects in adult literacy.  Schools of thought that build primarily on the "thick description" of ethnography as well as the theoretical impetus of critical pedagogy help, but need to be cross-evaluated from perspectives other than their own.
 
I do think the ongoing flow of work coming out of the new literacy studies holds a great deal of potential.  Yet unless the theoretical constructs that underpin such work get greater play in various policy and broad-based policy circles they will tend to remain isolated in v arious academic and practitioner-based enclaves.
 
Here are a few resources on the new literacy studies:
http://www.literacyjournal.ca/literacies/1-2003/analysis/2/1.htm
http://www.tc.columbia.edu/cice/archives/5.2/52street.pdf
http://www.geocities.com/c.lankshear/literacystudies.html
http://www.schools.ash.org.au/litweb/page300.htm
 
In my work I refer to a U.S. and UK version of the new Literacy Studies.  I believe the EFF project is an example of the former, though given Juliet Merrifield's UK heritage, it may be more of a blending in intent; though in primarily focusing on literacy "practices" rather than the social and cultural contexts in which such practices are embedded, the bring of the EFF project focuses, and rightly so, more on the US than UK version.
 
Clearly there's a great deal of room for cross fertilization as well as plenty of opportunity to incorporate a diversity of research methodologies, particularly when methodology is viewed as a tool, not the resource itself of insight and knowledge.
 
No doubt there's a lot of work that needs to be done.
 
Best,
 
George Demetrion
PS for the computer specialists:  How does one do spell check in hotmail?
 




From: DJRosen at theworld.comTo: assessment at nifl.govDate: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:59:55 -0500Subject: [Assessment 1537] Re: Getting staff used to using data






Hi Barry and others,
 
Of course, teachers who sign up for (voluntary?) PD might be the kind of teachers who actively seek solutions to teaching/learning problems. It may be that you are measuring the relationship between learners' retention and their teachers' motivation to solve classroom problems, not increased (or decreased) retention as a result of the professional development itself. 
 
It is difficult to isolate variables in adult ed. One of the hardest to isolate is teacher training. I think the most promising way to measure impact of teacher training on learner outcomes is in a content or skills area where a control group has a teacher with little knowledge and no training in the area being measured and the experimental group has a teacher who gets specific teacher training (including training on content and skills for herself) in the area. Learning outcomes in that area are then measured and compared for both groups of learners. 
 
Not perfect, of course, but it has potential. Numeracy and certain computer skills might be two such learning/teaching areas where a control group teacher does not have skills or knowledge and where an experimental group teacher gets specific training related to teaching numeracy or computer skills (such as student web page design, or using a classroom wiki or a blog to promote writing).
 
Has anyone tried an experiment like this?
 
David J. Rosen
djrosen at theworld.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Bakin, Barry 
To: The Assessment Discussion List 
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 7:20 PM
Subject: [Assessment 1533] Re: Getting staff used to using data


The attempt to correlate student attendance and retention with teacher participation in professional development is still in very preliminary stages and a professional statistician might say that we?re going about it in the wrong way but one aspect of what is being discussed relates to a ?retention? score being looked at that is derived from the total number of hours all students enrolled in a class could potentially have attended during a certain time period (if all of those students had attended every hour from the time they had enrolled to the time they  left the course or the specified time period was reached) divided by the actual hours those same students attended.  So let?s say that some 42 students could have attended a maximum total of 3000 hours of class time during the time period being examined.  The actual attendance of those students during that time period was 1500 hours.  1500 total actual hours divided by 3000 total possible hours gives a 50 percent figure. By doing the same calculation for every class offered, a division-wide ?average retention? figure can be established for a particular type of class.
The idea is that by identifying teachers who have taken staff development courses, and then looking at their individual average retention figure ?pre? and ?post? training, the effect of the training on an individual teacher?s retention might be demonstrated and in turn the effect on all teachers who have attended trainings as a group.  I?m not sure what variables other than the training are being considered.  Again, these ideas are all preliminary and experimental so they?re not for wider dissemination.  It would obviously be preferable to have a controlled double-blind study but that seems to be out of reach at the moment?
 
Barry
 
 




From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Nancy R Faux/AC/VCUSent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:23 AMTo: The Assessment Discussion ListSubject: [Assessment 1521] Re: Getting staff used to using data
 
Hi Barry, Could you please explain how you are correlating student attendance and retention with teacher participation in professional development, or the workshops that you offer?  We are exploring ways of doing this, also. Nancy *********************************************************Nancy R. FauxESOL SpecialistVirginia Adult Learning Resource CenterVirginia Commonwealth University3600 W. Broad Street, Suite 669Richmond, VA 23230-4930nfaux at vcu.eduhttp://www.valrc.org1-800-237-0178 




"Bakin, Barry" <barry.bakin at lausd.net> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 
12/11/2008 12:21 PM 




Please respond toThe Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>






To

"The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov> 


cc

 


Subject

[Assessment 1510] Re: Getting staff used to using data
 




 

 

Data is not just for classroom instructional staff to analyze. Our staff meeting yesterday(of teacher trainers responsible for staff development)focused on using attendance and ADA statistics collected since 1999 as a way to determine whether or not our team's staff development efforts over the last several years has resulted in increases in student attendance and retention by students whose teachers have taken staff development workshops. We have an immediate and pressing interest for doing so, as expected district-wide budget shortfalls of millions of dollars are leading some at the district level to advocate for the elimination of staff-development programs in the coming year.  We obviously feel that teachers who improve their skills will retain students better than those who don't, but we'd like to be able to point to data that demonstrates that.Barry BakinESL Teacher AdviserDivision of Adult and Career EducationLos Angeles Unified School District-------------------------------National Institute for LiteracyAssessment mailing listAssessment at nifl.govTo unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessmentEmail delivered to nfaux at vcu.edu



-------------------------------National Institute for LiteracyAssessment mailing listAssessment at nifl.govTo unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessmentEmail delivered to djrosen at theworld.com
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From cjones at alclv.org  Wed Dec 17 09:07:46 2008
From: cjones at alclv.org (Carol Jones)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 09:07:46 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1539] Re: Getting staff to use data
In-Reply-To: <751539D4-63C8-44D1-BB72-27AED41F55FD@mac.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000029036469@post2.rnci.com>

Interesting discussion.  In my experience, those instructors who seek to
participate in professional development opportunities are those who are open
to trying new teaching strategies and personal improvement.  They are not
frightened of admitting that there is always more to learn.which seems to be
what we hope for in students too.  Resistance to participation in training,
on the other hand, is not often a sign of a strong instructor.  Of course,
just attending is not the important thing, but actually trying to find at
least one thing to add to the bag of tricks is the key.  I'm not sure that
you can measure this formally, but I suspect that if you could review
performance reviews of both groups, you'd find that those who openly
participate in professional development are identified as better instructors
across the board.

 

  _____  

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Roger Berg
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 12:08 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Cc: Roger Berg
Subject: [Assessment 1535] Re: Getting staff to use data

 

There appears to be the assumption that participating in professional
development improves instruction.  I would not be surprised to find an small
positive effect but could it be that the 'better" instructors attend PD
while the others.....

 

 

Roger Berg

Strategic/Community Planner

Literacy Program of Greater Plymouth at the Plymouth Public Library

11 Hall Street

Plymouth, MA 02360

508 746 6345

roger_berg at mac.com

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From bergroger at mac.com  Wed Dec 17 10:20:23 2008
From: bergroger at mac.com (Roger Berg)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:20:23 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1540] Re: Getting staff to use data
In-Reply-To: <auto-000029036469@post2.rnci.com>
References: <auto-000029036469@post2.rnci.com>
Message-ID: <19A8760B-7FB3-47C4-A3DB-FD43D8A4A4FE@mac.com>

As a former training manager I know that some companies would insist  
on an exit test for employees.  Lucent had exit tests. Employees had  
to demonstrate that they had "passed" the course.  These examinations  
were not perfunctory.  There is a body research that indicates that  
managers who monitor the specifics of the knowledge and skills that  
were trained get a bigger bang for their training buck.  Both of these  
outcome measures are not the norm but they do occur.  In the ed biz  
and adult ed biz we usually do neither.  As a tenured full professor  
at the University of Nebrasksa , I have taught ed grad  courses.  Most  
ed grad degrees are long on theory and woefully short on practice.   
Biz training is short of theory and longer on practice.  And Adult Ed  
professional development is...


Roger Berg
Strategic/Community Planner
Literacy Program of Greater Plymouth at the Plymouth Public Library
11 Hall Street
Plymouth, MA 02360
508 746 6345
roger_berg at mac.com




On Dec 17, 2008, at 9:07 AM, Carol Jones wrote:

> Interesting discussion.  In my experience, those instructors who  
> seek to participate in professional development opportunities are  
> those who are open to trying new teaching strategies and personal  
> improvement.  They are not frightened of admitting that there is  
> always more to learn?which seems to be what we hope for in students  
> too.  Resistance to participation in training, on the other hand, is  
> not often a sign of a strong instructor.  Of course, just attending  
> is not the important thing, but actually trying to find at least one  
> thing to add to the bag of tricks is the key.  I?m not sure that you  
> can measure this formally, but I suspect that if you could review  
> performance reviews of both groups, you?d find that those who openly  
> participate in professional development are identified as better  
> instructors across the board.
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Roger Berg
> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 12:08 PM
> To: The Assessment Discussion List
> Cc: Roger Berg
> Subject: [Assessment 1535] Re: Getting staff to use data
>
> There appears to be the assumption that participating in  
> professional development improves instruction.  I would not be  
> surprised to find an small positive effect but could it be that the  
> 'better" instructors attend PD while the others.....
>
>
> Roger Berg
> Strategic/Community Planner
> Literacy Program of Greater Plymouth at the Plymouth Public Library
> 11 Hall Street
> Plymouth, MA 02360
> 508 746 6345
> roger_berg at mac.com
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to nqr at mac.com

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From gdemetrion at msn.com  Wed Dec 17 11:01:07 2008
From: gdemetrion at msn.com (George Demetrion)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:01:07 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1541] Re: Getting staff to use data
In-Reply-To: <19A8760B-7FB3-47C4-A3DB-FD43D8A4A4FE@mac.com>
References: <auto-000029036469@post2.rnci.com>
	<19A8760B-7FB3-47C4-A3DB-FD43D8A4A4FE@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BAY103-W5471628654112792B6683DC5F20@phx.gbl>


Good morning Roger and all.
 
A couple of thoughts on theory:
 
If one defines that as a construction, then theory, articulated or not as such, is inescapable in any learning process. For me the question is less whether there is too much or two little theory, but its cogency in relationship to whatever prroblem or issue is at hand-oftentimes in the very shaping of the problem statement itself.  The same goes with practice; not so much on whether its short or long, but its quality and comprehesiveness in relationship to the focus of study or problem situation.  In this respect, Kolb's cycle of learning is as useful as anything http://www.infed.org/biblio/b-explrn.htm.  See also the links to Dewey and Lewin which can be accessed from this page.
 
What is needed is good praxis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praxis_(process).  Of course what this is in any context may be contestable, but working toward developing good praxis among an informed body of participants in a given field is as decent a way of moving forward as any.  On the latter, the communities of practice literature is worth taking a look at: http://www.ewenger.com/theory/. Note, too Jackie Taylor's recent article in the Fall 2008 Volume of the ABE Journal titled "Tapping Online Professional Development Through Communities of Practice:  Examples from the NIFL Discussion Lists.  The work of Lytle and Cochram-Smith on Teacher Research is important too in working toward the process of bringing theory and practice in closer alignment.  The abundance of technical work on 20th century learning theory also needs to be factored in, where we don't jump into simplistic one theory solutions like MI, for example.  Broadly speaking, theoretical work and formal research in adult literacy needs to be embedded wkithin educational scholarship as a whole.  We've got a ways to go.  Working through the difficult issue of good theory cosntruction is an essential part of the process.
 
George Demetrion 



From: bergroger at mac.comTo: cjones at theliteracycenter-lv.org; assessment at nifl.govDate: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:20:23 -0500CC: bergroger at mac.comSubject: [Assessment 1540] Re: Getting staff to use dataAs a former training manager I know that some companies would insist on an exit test for employees.  Lucent had exit tests. Employees had to demonstrate that they had "passed" the course.  These examinations were not perfunctory.  There is a body research that indicates that managers who monitor the specifics of the knowledge and skills that were trained get a bigger bang for their training buck.  Both of these outcome measures are not the norm but they do occur.  In the ed biz and adult ed biz we usually do neither.  As a tenured full professor at the University of Nebrasksa , I have taught ed grad  courses.  Most ed grad degrees are long on theory and woefully short on practice.  Biz training is short of theory and longer on practice.  And Adult Ed professional development is...





Roger Berg
Strategic/Community Planner
Literacy Program of Greater Plymouth at the Plymouth Public Library
11 Hall Street
Plymouth, MA 02360
508 746 6345
roger_berg at mac.com


On Dec 17, 2008, at 9:07 AM, Carol Jones wrote:



Interesting discussion.  In my experience, those instructors who seek to participate in professional development opportunities are those who are open to trying new teaching strategies and personal improvement.  They are not frightened of admitting that there is always more to learn?which seems to be what we hope for in students too.  Resistance to participation in training, on the other hand, is not often a sign of a strong instructor.  Of course, just attending is not the important thing, but actually trying to find at least one thing to add to the bag of tricks is the key.  I?m not sure that you can measure this formally, but I suspect that if you could review performance reviews of both groups, you?d find that those who openly participate in professional development are identified as better instructors across the board.
 




From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Roger BergSent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 12:08 PMTo: The Assessment Discussion ListCc: Roger BergSubject: [Assessment 1535] Re: Getting staff to use data
 
There appears to be the assumption that participating in professional development improves instruction.  I would not be surprised to find an small positive effect but could it be that the 'better" instructors attend PD while the others.....

 

 





Roger Berg

Strategic/Community Planner

Literacy Program of Greater Plymouth at the Plymouth Public Library

11 Hall Street

Plymouth, MA 02360

508 746 6345

roger_berg at mac.com-------------------------------National Institute for LiteracyAssessment mailing listAssessment at nifl.govTo unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessmentEmail delivered to nqr at mac.com
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From barry.bakin at lausd.net  Wed Dec 17 11:38:47 2008
From: barry.bakin at lausd.net (Bakin, Barry)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 08:38:47 -0800
Subject: [Assessment 1542] Re: Getting staff to use data-now staff
	development
References: <751539D4-63C8-44D1-BB72-27AED41F55FD@mac.com>
Message-ID: <D7D008D5A3EAF6478CF0328F18E6639B91AE4A@MAILBE-LA13.lausd.net>

Professional development sessions in our division (adult education) arise out of needs assessments filled out by teachers and administrators and are delivered by current and former in-classroom teachers in a mostly "voluntary participation" system; teachers choose to attend for the most part, so our professional development operates under a more "business-like"  model of needing to provide services that people want.  Some teachers do have an added incentive/requirement of needing a certain number of hours of staff development to advance up the salary scale but that is not the case with all teachers who attend. All staff development ends with an evaluation by participants. The evaluations are taken seriously and used to the improve sessions.

On the other hand, I personally have attended staff development opportunities that were mandated by the larger k-12 system in which we operate over the past 20 years that were absolutely horrendous and of which I'm sure, any positive outcome that could be found in teachers' classrooms occurred in spite of the training instead of because of it.  Excellent teachers will find the five minutes of useful information in a two-hour training and turn it into excellent lessons and get great outcomes. Horrendous trainers can take 5 minutes of useful information and turn it into a two-hour opportunity for teachers to read newspapers, instant message, check email and doze.

One trend in staff development that we're trying to encourage is what is called "site-based professional development." In this model, staff development choices arise out of collective decision-making and needs assessment at the local site level.  Trainings can be given by the teachers themselves to each other, by off-site "experts," through peer-coaching or any combination of a variety of activities.  The key point is that the form and content of the training is determined through a joint effort of the site's teachers and administrators.

Barry


-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Roger Berg
Sent: Tue 12/16/2008 9:08 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Cc: Roger Berg
Subject: [Assessment 1535] Re: Getting staff to use data
 
There appears to be the assumption that participating in professional  
development improves instruction.  I would not be surprised to find an  
small positive effect but could it be that the 'better" instructors  
attend PD while the others.....


Roger Berg
Strategic/Community Planner
Literacy Program of Greater Plymouth at the Plymouth Public Library
11 Hall Street
Plymouth, MA 02360
508 746 6345
roger_berg at mac.com

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From djgbrian at utk.edu  Wed Dec 17 14:56:52 2008
From: djgbrian at utk.edu (Brian, Dr Donna J G)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:56:52 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1543] Re: Getting staff to use data
In-Reply-To: <BAY103-W5471628654112792B6683DC5F20@phx.gbl>
References: <auto-000029036469@post2.rnci.com><19A8760B-7FB3-47C4-A3DB-FD43D8A4A4FE@mac.com>
	<BAY103-W5471628654112792B6683DC5F20@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <EB0F6098AD0D8440893E1FF2749E9D690357246B@KFSVS1.utk.tennessee.edu>

Hi all,

The online link to Jackie Taylor's article that George mentions,
"Tapping Online Professional Development Through Communities of
Practice: Examples from the NIFL Discussion Lists", is at
http://www.nifl.gov/nifl/publications/pdf/ABELJournal08PD.pdf 

 

Donna Brian

Moderator, LINCS Workplace Literacy Discussion List

Off-list contact djgbrian at utk.edu

 

To post a message:

workplace at nifl.gov <mailto:workplace at nifl.gov> 

 

To subscribe/unsubscribe/change options/access archives:

http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/workplace
<http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/workplace> 

 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of George Demetrion
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:01 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1541] Re: Getting staff to use data

 

Good morning Roger and all.
 
A couple of thoughts on theory:
 
If one defines that as a construction, then theory, articulated or not
as such, is inescapable in any learning process. For me the question is
less whether there is too much or two little theory, but its cogency in
relationship to whatever prroblem or issue is at hand-oftentimes in the
very shaping of the problem statement itself.  The same goes with
practice; not so much on whether its short or long, but its quality and
comprehesiveness in relationship to the focus of study or problem
situation.  In this respect, Kolb's cycle of learning is as useful as
anything http://www.infed.org/biblio/b-explrn.htm.  See also the links
to Dewey and Lewin which can be accessed from this page.
 
What is needed is good praxis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praxis_(process).  Of course what this is
in any context may be contestable, but working toward developing good
praxis among an informed body of participants in a given field is as
decent a way of moving forward as any.  On the latter, the communities
of practice literature is worth taking a look at:
http://www.ewenger.com/theory/. Note, too Jackie Taylor's recent article
in the Fall 2008 Volume of the ABE Journal titled "Tapping Online
Professional Development Through Communities of Practice:  Examples from
the NIFL Discussion Lists.  The work of Lytle and Cochram-Smith on
Teacher Research is important too in working toward the process of
bringing theory and practice in closer alignment.  The abundance of
technical work on 20th century learning theory also needs to be factored
in, where we don't jump into simplistic one theory solutions like MI,
for example.  Broadly speaking, theoretical work and formal research in
adult literacy needs to be embedded wkithin educational scholarship as a
whole.  We've got a ways to go.  Working through the difficult issue of
good theory cosntruction is an essential part of the process.
 
George Demetrion 



________________________________


From: bergroger at mac.com
To: cjones at theliteracycenter-lv.org; assessment at nifl.gov
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:20:23 -0500
CC: bergroger at mac.com
Subject: [Assessment 1540] Re: Getting staff to use data

As a former training manager I know that some companies would insist on
an exit test for employees.  Lucent had exit tests. Employees had to
demonstrate that they had "passed" the course.  These examinations were
not perfunctory.  There is a body research that indicates that managers
who monitor the specifics of the knowledge and skills that were trained
get a bigger bang for their training buck.  Both of these outcome
measures are not the norm but they do occur.  In the ed biz and adult ed
biz we usually do neither.  As a tenured full professor at the
University of Nebrasksa , I have taught ed grad  courses.  Most ed grad
degrees are long on theory and woefully short on practice.  Biz training
is short of theory and longer on practice.  And Adult Ed professional
development is...

 

 

Roger Berg

Strategic/Community Planner

Literacy Program of Greater Plymouth at the Plymouth Public Library

11 Hall Street

Plymouth, MA 02360

508 746 6345

roger_berg at mac.com

 

 

 

 

On Dec 17, 2008, at 9:07 AM, Carol Jones wrote:

	 

	

	Interesting discussion.  In my experience, those instructors who
seek to participate in professional development opportunities are those
who are open to trying new teaching strategies and personal improvement.
They are not frightened of admitting that there is always more to
learn...which seems to be what we hope for in students too.  Resistance
to participation in training, on the other hand, is not often a sign of
a strong instructor.  Of course, just attending is not the important
thing, but actually trying to find at least one thing to add to the bag
of tricks is the key.  I'm not sure that you can measure this formally,
but I suspect that if you could review performance reviews of both
groups, you'd find that those who openly participate in professional
development are identified as better instructors across the board.

	 

	
________________________________


	From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Roger Berg
	Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 12:08 PM
	To: The Assessment Discussion List
	Cc: Roger Berg
	Subject: [Assessment 1535] Re: Getting staff to use data

	 

	There appears to be the assumption that participating in
professional development improves instruction.  I would not be surprised
to find an small positive effect but could it be that the 'better"
instructors attend PD while the others.....

	 

	 

	Roger Berg

	Strategic/Community Planner

	Literacy Program of Greater Plymouth at the Plymouth Public
Library

	11 Hall Street

	Plymouth, MA 02360

	508 746 6345

	roger_berg at mac.com

	-------------------------------
	National Institute for Literacy
	Assessment mailing list
	Assessment at nifl.gov
	To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go
to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
	Email delivered to nqr at mac.com

 

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From bergroger at mac.com  Wed Dec 17 15:58:23 2008
From: bergroger at mac.com (Roger Berg)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:58:23 -0500
Subject: [Assessment 1544] Re: Getting staff to use data
In-Reply-To: <EB0F6098AD0D8440893E1FF2749E9D690357246B@KFSVS1.utk.tennessee.edu>
References: <auto-000029036469@post2.rnci.com>
	<19A8760B-7FB3-47C4-A3DB-FD43D8A4A4FE@mac.com>
	<BAY103-W5471628654112792B6683DC5F20@phx.gbl>
	<EB0F6098AD0D8440893E1FF2749E9D690357246B@KFSVS1.utk.tennessee.edu>
Message-ID: <765FD54C-E14D-4CC1-B23D-1F6229CD1C0B@mac.com>

George,

I agree and acknowledge the problem.  As the late Kurt Lewin observed,  
"There is nothing so useful as good theory."

However, I think that when our adult educators and other  
practicioneers leave our classes they should know how rather than know  
about that. The implication of know how is practice and feedback.   
Before I left Nebraska I taught some classes that focused on theory- 
based know-how.

Roger Berg
Strategic/Community Planner
Literacy Program of Greater Plymouth at the Plymouth Public Library
11 Hall Street
Plymouth, MA 02360
508 746 6345
roger_berg at mac.com




On Dec 17, 2008, at 2:56 PM, Brian, Dr Donna J G wrote:

> Hi all,
> The online link to Jackie Taylor?s article that George mentions,  
> ?Tapping Online Professional Development Through Communities of  
> Practice: Examples from the NIFL Discussion Lists?, is athttp://www.nifl.gov/nifl/publications/pdf/ABELJournal08PD.pdf
>
> Donna Brian
> Moderator, LINCS Workplace Literacy Discussion List
> Off-list contact djgbrian at utk.edu
>
> To post a message:
> workplace at nifl.gov
>
> To subscribe/unsubscribe/change options/access archives:
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/workplace
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of George Demetrion
> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:01 AM
> To: assessment at nifl.gov
> Subject: [Assessment 1541] Re: Getting staff to use data
>
> Good morning Roger and all.
>
> A couple of thoughts on theory:
>
> If one defines that as a construction, then theory, articulated or  
> not as such, is inescapable in any learning process. For me the  
> question is less whether there is too much or two little theory, but  
> its cogency in relationship to whatever prroblem or issue is at hand- 
> oftentimes in the very shaping of the problem statement itself.  The  
> same goes with practice; not so much on whether its short or long,  
> but its quality and comprehesiveness in relationship to the focus of  
> study or problem situation.  In this respect, Kolb's cycle of  
> learning is as useful as anything http://www.infed.org/biblio/b-explrn.htm 
> .  See also the links to Dewey and Lewin which can be accessed from  
> this page.
>
> What is needed is good praxis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praxis_(process) 
> .  Of course what this is in any context may be contestable, but  
> working toward developing good praxis among an informed body of  
> participants in a given field is as decent a way of moving forward  
> as any.  On the latter, the communities of practice literature is  
> worth taking a look at: http://www.ewenger.com/theory/. Note, too  
> Jackie Taylor's recent article in the Fall 2008 Volume of the ABE  
> Journal titled "Tapping Online Professional Development Through  
> Communities of Practice:  Examples from the NIFL Discussion Lists.   
> The work of Lytle and Cochram-Smith on Teacher Research is important  
> too in working toward the process of bringing theory and practice in  
> closer alignment.  The abundance of technical work on 20th century  
> learning theory also needs to be factored in, where we don't jump  
> into simplistic one theory solutions like MI, for example.  Broadly  
> speaking, theoretical work and formal research in adult literacy  
> needs to be embedded wkithin educational scholarship as a whole.   
> We've got a ways to go.  Working through the difficult issue of good  
> theory cosntruction is an essential part of the process.
>
> George Demetrion
>
>
> From: bergroger at mac.com
> To: cjones at theliteracycenter-lv.org; assessment at nifl.gov
> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:20:23 -0500
> CC: bergroger at mac.com
> Subject: [Assessment 1540] Re: Getting staff to use data
>
> As a former training manager I know that some companies would insist  
> on an exit test for employees.  Lucent had exit tests. Employees had  
> to demonstrate that they had "passed" the course.  These  
> examinations were not perfunctory.  There is a body research that  
> indicates that managers who monitor the specifics of the knowledge  
> and skills that were trained get a bigger bang for their training  
> buck.  Both of these outcome measures are not the norm but they do  
> occur.  In the ed biz and adult ed biz we usually do neither.  As a  
> tenured full professor at the University of Nebrasksa , I have  
> taught ed grad  courses.  Most ed grad degrees are long on theory  
> and woefully short on practice.  Biz training is short of theory and  
> longer on practice.  And Adult Ed professional development is...
>
>
> Roger Berg
> Strategic/Community Planner
> Literacy Program of Greater Plymouth at the Plymouth Public Library
> 11 Hall Street
> Plymouth, MA 02360
> 508 746 6345
> roger_berg at mac.com
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 17, 2008, at 9:07 AM, Carol Jones wrote:
>
> Interesting discussion.  In my experience, those instructors who  
> seek to participate in professional development opportunities are  
> those who are open to trying new teaching strategies and personal  
> improvement.  They are not frightened of admitting that there is  
> always more to learn?which seems to be what we hope for in students  
> too.  Resistance to participation in training, on the other hand, is  
> not often a sign of a strong instructor.  Of course, just attending  
> is not the important thing, but actually trying to find at least one  
> thing to add to the bag of tricks is the key.  I?m not sure that you  
> can measure this formally, but I suspect that if you could review  
> performance reviews of both groups, you?d find that those who openly  
> participate in professional development are identified as better  
> instructors across the board.
>
> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment- 
> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Roger Berg
> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 12:08 PM
> To: The Assessment Discussion List
> Cc: Roger Berg
> Subject: [Assessment 1535] Re: Getting staff to use data
>
> There appears to be the assumption that participating in  
> professional development improves instruction.  I would not be  
> surprised to find an small positive effect but could it be that the  
> 'better" instructors attend PD while the others.....
>
>
> Roger Berg
> Strategic/Community Planner
> Literacy Program of Greater Plymouth at the Plymouth Public Library
> 11 Hall Street
> Plymouth, MA 02360
> 508 746 6345
> roger_berg at mac.com
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to nqr at mac.com
>
> -------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Assessment mailing list
> Assessment at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
> Email delivered to nqr at mac.com

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