From ntia  Mon Nov 14 09:07:56 1994
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From: NTIA Virtual Conference <ntia>
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To: avail, intellec, opnacces, privacy, redefus, standard
Subject: NTIA Virtual Conference KeyNote Address


                    WELCOMING STATEMENT FROM 
            DEPUTY SECRETARY OF COMMERCE DAVID BARRAM

Welcome to the Virtual Conference on Universal Service and Open
Access to the Telecommunications Network.  In hosting this
conference we seek to broaden our reach beyond the physical
limits of any conference room or auditorium.  The NII will tear
down the barriers of time and distance.  This conference, like
the NII itself, is meant to be inclusive and your ideas are
welcome and encouraged.  Your participation will help make it a
success.

This effort is jointly sponsored by the National
Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) and the
Information Infrastructure Task Force (IITF), as part of the
Administration's National Information Infrastructure initiative. 
Through the NII, the Administration is focusing on the ability of
computer mediated communications to enhance the life and work of
every American.  The NII is a harbinger of change, both economic
and political, and holds great promise for the future of America. 
Some benefits of the NII include telecommuting, distance learning
and active life-long education, remote consultations with expert
medical professionals, as well as new forms of art, entertainment
and culture.

This conference continues the dialog started by NTIA's five field
hearings, held over the past nine months in cities throughout
America.  Unlike the field hearings, this conference allows for a
much wider participation, and more in-depth discussion on the
issues.  There are over 80 public access points in 25 states.

With this conference we are hoping to:

    Garner opinions and views on universal telecommunications
     service that may shape the legislative and regulatory
     debate.

    Demonstrate how networking technology can broaden
     participation in the development of government policies,
     specifically, universal service telecommunications policy.

    Illustrate the potential for using the NII to create an
     electronic commons.

    Create a network of individuals and institutions that will
     continue the dialog started by the conference, once the
     formal sponsorship is over.

This conference is an experiment in a new form of dialog among
citizens and with their government.  The conference is not a one-
way, top down approach, it is a conversation.  It holds the
promise of reworking the compact between citizens and their
government.

I thank you once again for your participation.
From catalog@clpgh.org  Mon Nov 14 09:54:05 1994
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Subject: XXXX

CCCC
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sign me up.  alison.
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cancel subscription avail Dave Porter 
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From CHOURA%A1@COMMERCE.STATE.MI.US  Mon Nov 14 10:53:55 1994
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From: Ron Choura 517-334-6240 <CHOURA%A1@COMMERCE.STATE.MI.US>
Subject: NARUC Comments D.J Miller
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        AFFORDABILITY AND AVAILABILITY
        OF UNIVERSAL SERVICE
        Reflections of Commissioner Dean J. (Joe) Miller, Commissioner
        Chair, NARUC Committee on Communications
 
What's the Problem Here?
 
The goal of widely available, affordable communications services is already 
firmly rooted in law.  Few, if any, policy makers doubt the wisdom of the 
goal as a guiding principle for the future.  So, what's the problem?
 
The problem is we have traditionally pursued the goal through the vehicle 
of regulated monopolies.  In return for its dual commitment to extend 
service to all takers and to keep prices affordable, state government 
shielded the monopoly from competition. 
 
This approach was reasonable enough in its day.  Now, however, there is 
near universal consensus that opening up these markets to competition will 
lead to enhanced benefit for most consumers.  But, can we be sure that 
market forces alone will achieve the goal of widely available, affordable 
services for all Americans?  Is action by state and federal governments 
needed?  What should be done?
 
Don't Worry, There is an Answer.
 
The first step is for federal and state governments to commit themselves to 
the following principles which were developed by the National Association 
of Regulatory Utility Commissioners during legislative consideration of the 
issue in the 103rd Congress:
 
        o        States and the FCC should work cooperatively, through a 
Joint Board, to develop universal service criteria and standards;
 
        o        Federal universal service policies should ensure that all 
citizens are provided access to those basic telecommunications services 
that are available to the majority of citizens throughout the U.S..  
Mechanisms to support federal policies should be funded by interstate 
providers.
 
        o        States must be permitted to continue developing and 
redefining universal service policies that best meet the needs of 
subscribers within their jurisdictions, as long as such policies do not 
make it impossible to achieve Federal statutory mandates.  States must 
retain the ability to develop intrastate universal service support 
mechanisms.
 
 
 
        o        As technology enhances telecommunications capabilities, 
the package of universally available basic services must continue to meet 
expanding customer needs.
 
        o        States must have the ability to ensure that high quality 
service is provided in markets that are less competitive or attractive for 
investment.
 
        o        States must retain the authority to designate intrastate 
carrier(s) of last resort, and the terms and conditions under which these 
carriers receive universal service funds and provide services.
 
        o        Advanced telecommunications services should not be 
legislatively mandated for inclusion in the definition of universal 
service.  Universal service funding of such services is not appropriate 
unless and until a critical mass of demand develops.  Inclusion of such 
services in the definition would yield anticompetitive results, since 
services typically included in universal service do not have all relevant 
costs allocated to them.
 
Additional Useful Guidance
 
Now that we have established the correct governmental arrangments to 
address the question through adherence to the foregoing principles, some 
additional things should be kept in mind as a guide to policy formation.  
They are:
 
First, universal service under its traditional definition of "plain old 
telephone service" has not yet been achieved.  Aggregate data such as the 
nationwide average penetration level as the benchmark for availability and 
affordability (as of March 1993, 94.2% of households had telephone service) 
overlooks the much lower penetration levels among various population 
segments.  For example, in the lowest income category, (under $5,000 annual 
income), less than 73% of all households have telephone service.  African 
Americans with annual income of less than $5,000 have a penetration rate of 
only 65.5%. Aggregate data also does not take into account that there are 
some areas of the country that are not served by a local exchange company.
 
Thus, any discussion of expanding the universal service concept beyond 
present day meaning also must consider measures to correct these existing 
deficiencies in penetration rates.  Better data should be gathered and 
baseline group penetration levels should be established as soon as 
possible.  With this data, policy makers can estimate the costs necessary 
to achieve true universal service at the "POTS" level.
 
Second, as the universal service concept evolves to mean something more 
than POTS, affordability must continue to be a guiding concern.  The 
present day concept of universal service has been facilitated through 
explicit funding assistance programs such as the FCC's Lifeline and Linkup 
programs.  Lifeline provides rate relief for low income customers by 
defraying the costs of the Federal Subscriber Line Charge, whereas Linkup 
provides credits for nonrecurring installation charges associated with 
obtaining access to telephone service.  These programs must also continue.
 
Third, market force should be the principal driver of technology deployment 
standards, and drive the evolution of the universal service concept.  In 
high density areas which are the most likely to be subject to competitive 
pressures, customer demands and needs should direct investment decisions.  
Regulatory decisions concerning technical standards may or may not 
accurately anticipate customer preferences, and could cause carriers to 
incur costs that customers are unwilling to fund through prices paid for 
service offerings.  States may consider using technology deployment in 
competitive areas as a benchmark or gauge for technology deployment 
standards in noncompetitive areas.  This takes into account that there may 
be geographic areas where customer demand for advanced services or 
competitive pressures may not be sufficient for carriers to decide to make 
such investments and that market driven technology decisions alone may be 
inadequate for assuring that the universal service concept is expanded to 
all customers.
 
Conclusion
 
Thanks to NTIA for soliciting these views which, while informed by the 
policies of the National Association of Regulatory Utility Commissioners, 
are my own and not necessarily those of the Association.




From wvia@scranton.com  Mon Nov 14 11:28:11 1994
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From ntiagate@virgin.uvi.edu  Mon Nov 14 20:24:55 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 00:27:42 GMT
From: ab368@virgin.uvi.edu (Bruce Potter)
Message-ID: <1994Nov15.002742.7646@virgin.uvi.edu>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Need for Federal Oversight of Access and Availability



Joe Miller made a good case for the supremacy of state authority and 
regulation of most aspects of access and availability to National 
Information Infrastructure telecommunications facilities. His analysis, 
however, overlooks the real problems faced by small, geographically 
isolated areas such as the US Virgin Islands, where this message 
originates. 

Until Chairman Charles Ferris held local hearings in the Virgin Islands 
in the late 1970's, the Federal government had exercised no control over 
the extortionate rates then being charged by the Territory's monopoly 
long distance carrier, which were four to five times greater per mile 
than long distance tariffs in the continental United States.

When faced with the resources and persuasive power (legal and otherwise) 
of enormous multinational corporations with annual incomes that are 
orders of magnitude greater than some of the territories they serve, only 
a capable and committed national guarantee of access, and a national cost 
pool can provide access to these new technology resources.

And THE INTERNET IS ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT to areas with limited access to 
technical and scientific rerources. As one of the leading non-profit 
eduational foundations devoted to the environmental problems of small 
tropical islands, we (Island Resources Foundation) are amazed at the 
richness of the Internet resource, and terribly concerned that our 
constituents throughout all of the world's oceans are going to closed out 
from access to this resource because of monopoly pricing policies.

To the NTIA, we ask careful attention to the equity issues of access, and 
a federal guarantee of access and availability.

Island Resources Foundation
iresource@aol.com
-- 
ISLAND RESOURCES FOUNDATION         {&} 1718 "P" Street NW, #t-4   
6296 Estate Nazareth, #11, STT 00802{#} Washington, DC  20036
809/775-6225; fax 779-2022          {#} 202/265-9712; fax 232-0748
ab368@virgin.uvi.edu                {#} iresources@aol.com


From ntiagate@virgin.uvi.edu  Mon Nov 14 20:25:01 1994
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Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 14:24:16 GMT
From: ab368@virgin.uvi.edu (Bruce Potter)
Message-ID: <1994Nov14.142416.16498@virgin.uvi.edu>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Affordability and Availability for Offshore Territories



Access to the services of the Internet is quickly becoming an essential 
element of many of the information intensive organizations in the United 
States. Our organization -- Island Resources Foundation -- is a 
non-profit educational organization which has been working with small 
developing island-states on the environmental problems of development 
for the past 23 years. 

We see the Internet as an indispensable tool for our own communication and
research needs, as long as we are working out of our Washington DC branch
office. Until the recent establishment of a Freenet in the US Virgin
Islands, however, we had virtually no way to link our activities in
Washington with any of our constituents. Now we can communicate better
with clients in the Virgin Islands, but further links to other Caribbean
states are almost impossible because of the extremely high communication
charges levied by regional long distance carriers, outside of the US
possessions. 

In previous years the Virgin Islands also suffered from extremely high 
telephone rates charged by ITT. In hearings conducted by Charles Ferris, 
former chairman of the FCC, these rates were shown to be purely the 
result of monopoly power by the long distance company, and the tarifs 
were ordered sharply reduced by the FCC. In the course of those hearings 
Chairman Ferris clearly made the case that access and availablility of 
telecommunications services at exorbitant rates was not acceptable in a 
democratic society.

The territories are not naive in insisting that the information 
infrastructure must accomodate both access AND low rates. Without both, 
the territories will receive no benefit and will in fact find their needs 
increasingly marginalized.

-- 
ISLAND RESOURCES FOUNDATION         {&} 1718 "P" Street NW, #t-4   
6296 Estate Nazareth, #11, STT 00802{#} Washington, DC  20036
809/775-6225; fax 779-2022          {#} 202/265-9712; fax 232-0748
ab368@virgin.uvi.edu                {#} iresources@aol.com

>From news Mon Nov 14 20:27:47 1994
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From twigs@sils.umich.edu  Mon Nov 14 20:38:06 1994
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please subscribe

On Mon, 14 Nov 1994, WVIA Virtual Conference Account wrote:

> subscribe wvia
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From twigs@sils.umich.edu  Mon Nov 14 20:42:26 1994
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On Mon, 14 Nov 1994, WVIA Virtual Conference Account wrote:

> subscribe wvia
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From WHITTLE@SMTPGATE.sunydutchess.edu  Mon Nov 14 22:02:58 1994
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From: <WHITTLE@SMTPGATE.sunydutchess.edu>  (Whittle, Frank )
To: <AVAIL@VIRTCONF.NTIA.DOC.GOV>
Date: Mon Nov 14 21:53:09 1994

I am currently conducting dissertation research on the
relationship between promoting a telecommunication policy
favoring  economic development and one favoring universal
service. Specifically, I am interested in providing a stakeholder
analysis to determine the level of agreement and/or disagreement 
in perceptions on this relationship.

The term "economic development" has become prominent in state
telecommunication policy during the last ten years as the states
battle to retain and attract industry. It appears from the
preliminary research that the issue of providing universal access
(services) has become less prominent in policy documents.

Although my study will concentrate on policy in New York State, I
would welcome any leads on previous research in this area. Also,
I am interested in any comments you may have and/or suggestions
in this area.


Thanks.

Frank Whittle
Chairman, CIS
Dutchess Community College
Poughkeepsie, New York
PhD Candidate SUNY @ Albany
email: whittle@sunydutchess.edu


From vcavail@latte.spl.lib.wa.us  Mon Nov 14 23:35:50 1994
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From: Affordabilty and Availability <vcavail@latte.spl.lib.wa.us>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Re: your mail
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Subscribe Ref Lindmark


"The above message was sent from the Seattle Public Library public access
point.  Though the Library is pleased to make this service available, The
views expressed in this message do not necessarily represent the position 
of the Seattle Public Library."

On Mon, 14 Nov 1994 vcavail@latte.spl.lib.wa.us wrote:

> Subject: [AVAIL:1] NTIA Virtual Conference KeyNote Address
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
> X-Comment:  Gatewayed to newsgroup alt.ntia.avail
> Status: O
> 
> X-From: NTIA Virtual Conference <ntia@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov>
> 
> 
>                     WELCOMING STATEMENT FROM 
>             DEPUTY SECRETARY OF COMMERCE DAVID BARRAM
> 
> Welcome to the Virtual Conference on Universal Service and Open
> Access to the Telecommunications Network.  In hosting this
> conference we seek to broaden our reach beyond the physical
> limits of any conference room or auditorium.  The NII will tear
> down the barriers of time and distance.  This conference, like
> the NII itself, is meant to be inclusive and your ideas are
> welcome and encouraged.  Your participation will help make it a
> success.
> 
> This effort is jointly sponsored by the National
> Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) and the
> Information Infrastructure Task Force (IITF), as part of the
> Administration's National Information Infrastructure initiative. 
> Through the NII, the Administration is focusing on the ability of
> computer mediated communications to enhance the life and work of
> every American.  The NII is a harbinger of change, both economic
> and political, and holds great promise for the future of America. 
> Some benefits of the NII include telecommuting, distance learning
> and active life-long education, remote consultations with expert
> medical professionals, as well as new forms of art, entertainment
> and culture.
> 
> This conference continues the dialog started by NTIA's five field
> hearings, held over the past nine months in cities throughout
> America.  Unlike the field hearings, this conference allows for a
> much wider participation, and more in-depth discussion on the
> issues.  There are over 80 public access points in 25 states.
> 
> With this conference we are hoping to:
> 
>     Garner opinions and views on universal telecommunications
>      service that may shape the legislative and regulatory
>      debate.
> 
>     Demonstrate how networking technology can broaden
>      participation in the development of government policies,
>      specifically, universal service telecommunications policy.
> 
>     Illustrate the potential for using the NII to create an
>      electronic commons.
> 
>     Create a network of individuals and institutions that will
>      continue the dialog started by the conference, once the
>      formal sponsorship is over.
> 
> This conference is an experiment in a new form of dialog among
> citizens and with their government.  The conference is not a one-
> way, top down approach, it is a conversation.  It holds the
> promise of reworking the compact between citizens and their
> government.
> 
> I thank you once again for your participation.
> 
From cyberoid@u.washington.edu  Tue Nov 15 00:27:48 1994
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	Mon, 14 Nov 94 21:19:55 -0800
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 94 21:19:55 -0800
From: Robert Jacobson <cyberoid@u.washington.edu>
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To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Brief History: CA's Universal Telephone Service Act

CALIFORNIA'S UNIVERSAL TELEPHONE SERVICE ACT

ITS ORIGIN IN 1983:  A CHANGING TELECOMMUNICATIONS SCENE

	California's  Universal Telephone Service Act, the "Moore Act"
of 1983 (Asm.  Gwen Moore, D-L.A.), has set one successful example for
how to manage  universal  telephone/telecommunications  service.   The
Moore Act, which I helped to draft, enunciated  certain principles  of
civic rights and necessities  requiring citizen access to the means of
communication;  set forth  the necessary rules to  govern  the way  in
which  rates for  local  service  and  long-distance,  including  more
advanced digital services,  would be balanced;  and delegated  to CA's
Public Utilities  Commission responsibility  for overseeing  the Moore
Act's  mechanisms,  providing  outreach  to  target  communities,  and
preventing fraud on the part of service recipients.

	The necessity of  the  Moore Act became  clear in 1982, when a
Consent Decree was signed breaking up the former AT&T Bell System.  As
part  of the  Decree,  competitive  long-distance  services  would  be
permitted   to  set  their   own   rates   (within  certain  antitrust
guidelines);  usually, this meant they went down.  Local rates, on the
other hand, were not permitted to vary since local telephone companies
in 1982  and thereafter  held  effective monopolies  in their  service
areas.   Nevertheless,  they  were  responsible   for  expansion   and
maintenance  of the  local  telephone  network which  remained a vital
"feeder  system"  for  the  long-distance companies.   Even  with  the
imposition of a  so-called "access  charge"  paid by the long-distance
companies  to  the  local  companies, prices for long-distance service
still  fell   precipitously.    Long-distance   customers,   who  were
overwhelming large corporations and government agencies (fewer than 35
percent  of all  telephone customers  made  the vast majority of long-
distance  phone  calls), were receiving the vast  benefits of  reduced
rates.

	This  situation  was exacerbated  by  the  FCC's imposition of
another  type  of  "access  charge,"   this  one  on  local  telephone
customers,  supposedly  to  offset  losses   to  the  local  telephone
companies  of  support  formerly  built  into  the  unified   national
telephone   system.   It  was  estimated,  by  1986  --   even  though
competition was just getting started in a  big way -- that the subsidy
flowing  from  local  telephone   customers  (individuals  and   small
businesses) to  large customers was  as  much  as $4 billion annually.
(Today it may be more.)

	Those who  paid the worst  price were less able  to benefit by
reduced long-distance rates:  the poor.   Faced  with customer  access
charges and climbing local rates, the poor were on the verge of losing
all  telephone  service.   This would create  potential  voids  in the
social fabric  and non inconsequential fiscal effects.  Not only would
it be more difficult to reach certain people via any form of telephone
service,  but the  social costs of  emergencies  untended (which could
very  well  affect  insurance  premiums  and public outlays) might  be
considerable.

A SOLUTION IN PRINCIPLE AND PRACTICE:  THE MOORE ACT

	In  1983,  an  unusual  coalition  of local  and long-distance
telephone  companies, cable television companies, the PUC, and  public
interest  groups combined  to pass  the Moore Act.   A fairly complete
account of the up's and down's  of  this legislation, and its eventual
passage  by  a  Democratic  legislature  and signing  into  law  by  a
Republican governor, can be read in  AN "OPEN" APPROACH TO INFORMATION
POLICYMAKING, R. Jacobson, Ablex, 1989.

	The resulting  law  set forth a minimal local service to which
one could subscribe --  a  limited number  of calls each month -- at a
low  price.  There was no means test  associated with the legislation:
the quality of the  reduced Lifeline  Service was  intended  to  be an
inherent  deterrent to abuse.  It was an absolute minimum.  Subsequent
surveys and random spot checks by  the PUC produced evidence  that the
law  was  in  fact serving its  intended  population:  fewer than five
percent of all subscribers were earning above the poverty line, a rate
of  "abuse"  much lower  than  almost  any other entitlement  program.
Support for the program was obtained by a small proportional charge on
long-distance service (which  nevertheless hardly reduced cost savings
to long-distance customers).   Very few  complaints  were  heard  from
participants on either side of the  line.  No one wanted holes to form
in California's telephone service.

	Moreover, no  phone  company  in  CA, local  or long-distance,
suffered appreciably from this legislation.  The most ardent opponent,
AT&T, consistently tried to reduce the level of support  for the Moore
Act; but not with great heat.  Its customers' savings were still large
and  the   company  did   not  lose  its   position  as  the  dominant
long-distance telephone company as a result of the Moore Act, either.

	The  one exception  to  paying  into  the Universal  Telephone
Service Fund,  as the pool of monies for offering Lifeline Service was
called, was the  cable television companies -- so long as they did not
offer two-way telephone service.  The  PUC must  revisit the issue  if
the  cable  television  companies  in  fact  become  telephone service
providers.

	A measure of comity among the various parties to the Moore Act
has made  it  a  success,  both  as a  statement of  social  policy --
everyone in a free  society must have access to the means of effective
communication --  and as a mechanism for keeping  intact an  imperiled
public telecommunications network.  Although several attempts  to pass
legislation based on the Moore Act were attempted by both other states
and the Congress, the  breakdown  of  this  comity led  to rivalry and
self-interest.  As  a  result,  some  of  these  new laws incorporated
elements antithetical to the Moore Act  (for example, at the urging of
long-distance carriers, many  state  enacted a  lifeline-service means
test, which converted telecommunications  policy  into  social-welfare
policy).  Others simply missed the boat and did not effect the balance
of interests maintained by the Moore Act to this day.

CONCLUSIONS

	The  PUC is empowered by the legislation to revisit  the Moore
Act on  a regular basis  and  adjust both  the definition  of Lifeline
Service  and  various  rate  flows, as  it sees  fit.   At last count,
something like 15  percent of the CA telephone  subscribing population
--  almost all  resident in households earning at or below the poverty
level -- received Lifeline Service.  Obviously, this does not  include
all  families currently receiving  local  telephone  service  of other
types  whose use patterns and income  makes them  likely recipients of
Lifeline  Service: as  many as another  10 percent of local  telephone
customers should be  availing themselves of Lifeline Service.  The PUC
has had  to compel telephone  companies  in CA  to inaugurate outreach
efforts to  these citizens.  (At  one point, a local telephone company
had  to  be  fined for  not  properly informing new  subscribers about
Lifeline Service,  and  the  amount has been used, in  part, for these
outreach efforts.)  Generally, however, Lifeline  Service  has  worked
well.

	 While  the  Moore Act  was  passed and  first  implemented in
simpler times, when  telephone  service was  still  largely POTS mixed
with  patches of cellular telephone service and smatterings of digital
services, it retains its relevance  and  applicability today.  The PUC
is  authorized to report to the legislature its conclusions  regarding
the  quality  of   Lifeline  Service,  which  it  may  implement  with
legislative approval.  It  is quite that plans to  fully digitize CA's
telephone  network,  promoted  most   avidly  by  CA's  largest  local
telephone  service companies, Pacific  Bell and  GTE California,  will
best  be  realized  if  Lifeline Service, for those most  in need,  is
redefined to include basic  digital services as  well as  conventional
analog service.   After  all, from  the  standpoint  of the  customer,
delivery  of  service  is  technologically invisible  except  for  new
services that  could not  exist  without a digital  network.  The same
principles  of funding expansion of  the local  network, as a  digital
rather  than  analog system, can be logically applied in 1994 as  they
were in 1984, the first year that  the Moore Act took effect.  The PUC
can determine, after public  hearings with input from various parties,
just how broad Lifeline  Service needs to be to  prevent  tears in the
social fabric of communications.

	Much is said these days about the  need for "redefinition" and
"availability"  of  universal telephone  service.  In fact,  this very
discussion  was preceded by  these  unfortunate terms.   First,  these
terms presume that universal  service exists  already, which it  by no
means  does:  many Americans are still involuntarily without telephone
service because they are poor or  transients.   Some  living  in  rual
areas find the cost of telephone service disproportionately expensive.
(In CA, a Rural  Telephone  Fund was established, on a company-company
basis,  to keep  rural people  comfortably on  the  net  and thus  not
encourage them to  abandon  farms and businesses in  rural areas  that
might otherwise become  uneconomic because of rapidly rising prices of
service.)  While opinions and surveys differ, this unserved proportion
of the population  is at least five  and may be as large as 15 percent
of all Americans -- a  lot of people.  Second,  reduced-cost  services
like CA's Lifeline Service are the exception,  not the rule.  They are
completely unavailable to  most Americans.   The nation might  have as
its most immediate goal remedying these situations before beginning to
overhaul the few programs that do exist to provide equitable access to
communications,  in  an "information  age" the  essence of  American's
First Amendment rights.

	The  NTIA  and  FCC  can further  the cause of  communications
equity by examining existing  programs designed to  provide  universal
access to the  means of  communication,  not only  for  their economic
viability but also  for their deep  principles.  These principles, and
not trendy  neo-  economic rationales, should be  applied to answering
the problem of attaining universal access on a national basis, for all
Americans.

Robert Jacobson, Ph.D.

Former Principal Consultant
(Senior Staff Analyst) and
Committee Staff Director,
Assembly Utilities and
Commerce Committee, CA
Legislature, 1981-1989
From correav@clpgh.org  Tue Nov 15 09:53:01 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 09:45:07 EST
From: Virginia Correa <correav@clp2.clpgh.org>
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From chage@rahul.net  Tue Nov 15 10:11:21 1994
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	id AA18658; Tue, 15 Nov 94 03:11:23 PST
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 94 03:11:23 PST
From: chage@rahul.net (Carl Hage)
Message-Id: <9411151111.AA18658@slick.chage.com>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Key Issues of Affordability and Availability

There has been a significant amount of discussion about availability and
affordability issues, in the prior meeting. However, I believe that much
of the discussion has been at a high level, and some important details of
the economic issues have been omitted.

In this message, I'll list what I think are the key problems to be
addresses. Perhaps some of the other readers whould like to comment,
and perhaps offer solutions. In a later message, I will offer my own
comments on solutions for these problems and other problems raised
by other readers.

I. 10 KEY PROBLEMS

Here are what I think are some key problems which need to be addressed
as part of the NII program:

1. Current Internet access costs favor large organizations.
2. Large organizations have better network services available.
3. Telecommunications resources currently are not efficiently utilized.
4. Telephone companies do not offer packet oriented service at low cost
5. Monopoly Telephone and Cable companies are competing with each other,
   not providing an economical digital communications infrastructure.
6. On demand video may be subsidized by telephone and computer data
7. Types of telephone service available decrease competition for net access
8. Internet access fees are based on peak transmit rate not quantity of data
9. The networking industry is building products for large businesses
10. High density areas may obtain preferential access to independent providers


-----

1. Current Internet access costs favor large organizations.

    High speed internet access over a dedicated connection can be obtained
    in a large company (or medium speed access in a medium sized company)
    for a few dollars per month. An individual (e.g.  telecommuter, home
    user, small library, kiosk, disabled telecommuter, etc.) or small
    business cannot afford dedicated access. Slow (modem) speed dialup
    access costs an order of magnitude more than the dedicated access to
    large organizations.
        
    Lets compare the monthly costs per person for a few scenarios.
    Suppose each person will retrieve about 1MB per day, or about
    the equivalent of 10 books 100 pages long in compressed form.
    
    (The numbers below are representative of costs in the San Francisco
    area. Not all detailed costs are shown, but the comparisons should
    be valid.)
    
      Large 1000 person company
         Premium connection at 1500Kb/s		$3000
         T1 telephone line 20miles		$1000
         
         Cost per user/month			$4
         Time to retrieve a 100 page document	.5sec
         Utilization over 8 hours		20%	

      Medium 100 person company
         ISDN connection at 128Kb/s		$310
         ISDN telephone line			$30
         Usage charges 8hrs local		$192
         Usage if provider is >7 miles	$768
         
         Cost per user/month			$5
         Time to retrieve a 100 page document	6sec
         Utilization over 8 hours		20%	

      Individual (1 person company, telecommuter, library, ATM machine, etc.)
         Dedicated service at 14Kb/s		$90
         POTS telephone line			$15
         Usage charges 8hrs local		$96
         Usage if provider is >7 miles	$384
         
         Cost per user/month			$100-200
         Time to retrieve a 100 page document	56sec
         Utilization over 8 hours		.2%	

    In a large organization a high speed communication link can be
    obtained for a few dollars per person per month, which permits
    very fast retrieval of documents. The cost of very low because
    a single internet link can be shared across a LAN with thousands
    of users.
    
    A medium sized organization would need to pay substantially more
    per person to obtain high speed (T1) access. However an ISDN
    line could be used to obtain a moderate speed link and still
    keep costs within a few dollars per month. A nearby commercial
    internet service provider would be needed to avoid high telephone
    usage costs. In this scenario, no usage is assumed after business
    hours. If a local internet provider was not available, or if access
    after the 8hr business day is required, a Frame-Relay connection
    could be obtained at comparable cost at half the speed.
    
    An individual has no ability to share the telecomunications costs,
    except by finding a nearby commercial internet service provider
    who will provide modem access. If a user wants a dedicated connection,
    they would need to pay for 2 phone lines (1 for the user plus 1
    dedicated line to the internet provider) to the internet provider's
    modem and router. All modem users at the provider's router share
    a link to the provider who in turn connects to the internet.
    
    Most individuals cannot afford a dedicated connection, so a
    slow (modem) speed dialup connection would be used instead.
    This puts the individual or small business at a disadvantage.
    An internet access account is typically about $20/month. Some
    providers charge usage fees which are $2/hour.
    
    A medium-small business (e.g. 10-100 users) can obtain an email and
    news only access. With this type of account, the newer services
    like gopher and WWW are not available except via a email server.
    A scenario for email only service is: 
    
    10 Person Company with email/news only access:
      UUCP Access			$20
      Telephone line			$15
      Telephone Usage charges (xmit)	$9
      Telephone usage polling		$40
      
      Cost per person			$8
      
    The polling charge is the cost to dial the provider once every 20
    minutes during the day (once per hour other times). In this case
    it might take 20 minutes to deliver an email message. If this
    company had a dedicated connection, email would be delivered within
    a minute or so.
    
2. Large organizations have better network services available.

    As explained in the scenarios above, medium-high speed dedicated
    access is easily within reach in medium-large companies. An individual
    or small business may not be able to afford dedicated access, limiting
    the applications which could be used, and adding substantial delivery
    times for email, etc.
    
    Instead of having email delivered within a minute, a delay, e.g.
    20 minutes, might be added.

3. Telecommunications resources currently are not efficiently utilized.

    Currently, two dedicated telephone lines plus one shared line is used
    for modem access, whereas a single shared line could be used. The
    telephone companies may use thousands of times the neighborhood and
    interoffice transmission resource to provide connection oriented
    service vs packet oriented digital communications.
    
    Consider the typical access available to most people with modems:
    
      user (modem)-------------------------------->(telco office)
                                                         |
                                                         v
      provider POP (modem)<------------------------(telco office)
      provider POP (modem)<-- (other dialup lines)
         ...
         |
         v
      router (digital line)------------------------>(telco office)
                                                         |
                                                         v
      provider HQ<---------------------------------(telco office)
         |
         v
      router (digital line)=======================>(telco office)
                                                         |
                                                         v
                                                  (internet backbone)

    In order to access the internet, a user must dial a modem supplied
    by an access provider. In order to avoid long distance telephone
    charges, each internet provider (IP) must provide a nearby POP (Point
    Of Presence) which has a set of modems connected a router linked
    to the IP headquarters via a shared digital link. At the headquarters,
    the IP has a central router to computers for services it offers,
    e.g. news, and a high speed connection to the internet backbone.
    
    Three telephone lines are used to get to the IP-HQ. Two lines are
    consumed to connect to a POP, and the third line from the POP
    to the IP-HQ is shared by all users who connect to the POP.
    
    The telephone companies offer only "connection oriented" service
    rather than the "packet oriented" service used for computer
    communication. If a user dials up an IP, the telephone company is
    continuously transmitting 64Kb per direction for each connection, even
    though the user is not transmitting any information. For example, a
    page of information (e.g. email) might take a few minutes to read, but
    might take only a second to transmit. A message which took three
    minutes to read would consume 5000 times as much information in
    the connection oriented telephone switch as would be required to
    transmit via a packet oriented switching technology.
    
    If the telephone companies offered packet oriented digital service,
    the topology of the diagram above might look like:

      user (box)===|(street)
      user (box)===|(router)==========|
       ...      ===|                  |
      user (box)===|                  |(neighborhood)
                                      |(router      )=====>(telco office)
      user (box)===|(building)        |                         |
      user (box)===|(router  )========|                         |
       ...      ===|                                            v
      user (box)===|                   provider HQ<========(telco office)


   Rather than have each user consume a complete line to the telco
   central office (CO), a single line could be shared by several
   users. Since the average transmission utilization of an individual
   is low, a shared line, like a "party line", would have almost
   the same performance as a dedicated line.
   
   If the distance between the user and the first level of router
   is small, then high speed transmission is possible. For example,
   a 15000Kb transmission rate is possible over ordinary phone wire
   for limited distance, which is 1000 times faster than the typical
   14Kb modem.
   
   A similar configuration is used to provide the "video dial tone"
   service, which is actually mostly traditional cable TV service
   supplied by the telephone company. Although the telcos investing
   in "video on demand" service mention computer data, I do not
   see the plans or infrastructure for allowing general purpose
   digital communication.
   
   An open question is who will provide the building, street, and
   neighborhood routers. The telephone (or cable) companies own
   the exising lines and access to them. Because they are in a monopoly
   position, they do not necessarily have any interest in providing
   the kind of service required for low cost computer communications
   or to provide access to third party 
   

4. Telephone companies do not offer packet oriented service at low cost

    Computer communications occurs in "packets", which is a chunk of data
    transmitted. A short email message might take a single packet, and a
    file might take many packets. In between packets, a computer link is
    idle, so a packet oriented computer data link can be shared by
    multiple users. The existing voice telephone circuits are "connection
    oriented", which means they consume a constant amount of data (64Kb)
    even when people are not speaking.
    
    Actually, voice data can be compressed into packets which consumes 1/4
    to 1/8 the amount of data normally transmitted (compression ratio of
    2:1 to 4:1, unidirectional data flow). Some sounds compress better
    than others, so the transmission capacity varies slightly.
    
    Compressed video also can be divided into a variable number of
    packets. Typically, however, a fixed transmission rate is used (since
    that is the type of service available) and the quality is degraded
    when necessary in order to fit within the fixed transmission capacity.
    If a variable speed packet switched connection were available, then
    the transmission rate can be increased when movement occurs, and
    decreased when the images do not move. This leads to higher quality
    images, better utilization of the transmission resources, and
    lower cost.
    
    Pacific Bell offers the Frame-Relay service, which is a flat-rate
    packet oriented service. The delivery times are not guaranteed, so it
    is not suitable for compressed audio or video. However, they could be
    used to access an internet service provider without incurring usage
    charges or mileage fees. The monthly charges are:
        56Kb		$140
        15000Kb		$328
        45000Kb ATM	$4,85O
    
    Frame relay on ISDN might be another approach, and PacBell has
    announced it but (I believe) is not currently pursuing it. I do
    not know if usage charges would be added. Concievably, ISDN
    frame-relay could be used to lower the >$200/mo telephone charges
    in the scenario above.
    
    For heavy users, e.g. large companies, this can become attractive
    and low cost if spread over a large number of users. For an individual
    with low utilization, these prices are unaffordable.
    
5. Monopoly Telephone and Cable companies are competing with each other,
   not providing an economical digital communications infrastructure.
   
   The telephone companies, e.g. Pacific Bell, are deploying digital
   video service, known as "on demand video", as a testbed in a few
   high density areas. The technology used will be the $4,85O/mo ATM
   technology to neighborhoods, with either 15000Kb ADSL service over
   existing twisted pair wiring, or higher rates with new coaxial cable
   installed. The "video" service is one way TV broadcast, no 2 way
   videophone service.
   
   In all the press releases, the usage for computer communications is
   barely mentioned. As far as I know, the tests will only involve video
   service, and no plans exist to permit internet access providers or
   other digital information sources to have access to this infrastructure.
   
   The technology used to deliver cable TV by the telephone companies
   could be used as a general digital communications infrastructure,
   offering very high speed access at reasonably low cost. However,
   the equipment must be designed for bidirectional communications,
   and users and information providers must have access at the digital
   packet switching level, not at the video broadcast level.
   
6. On demand video may be subsidized by telephone and computer data

   The economics of on demand TV is questionable. The projected cost
   to deliver a 2 hour movie is $2-$4, depending on whether it is a new
   release. Note this cost includes, the video servers which hold and
   retrieve the digital movie data. If we assume the servers have no
   cost, then comparing the cost for video against existing audio:
   
       Video Movie = 6GB             Cost/GB = $3/6GB =      $.50/GB
       Audio telephone = .48MB/min   Cost/GB = $.01/.00048 = $21/GB
       
   The projected cost of delivering video is 40 times the usage
   charges for telephone service. Unless the tarriffs are radially
   changed, the price for transmitting audio (and possibly computer data)
   will be much higher than the price for transmitting video, even
   though with digital data transmission, there is no distinction, except
   in level of service.
   
   With audio or video transmissions, a guaranteed transmission rate
   is important. However, most computer data transmissions are not
   time sensitive, and the speed can be reduced as traffic increases.
   Thus, computer data can be used to fill the capacity at a lower
   priority than audio and video transmissions. Thus computer data
   should be charged at a lower rate than audio or video.
   
   It does not appear to me that less than $.50/GB is economically feasable
   for digital computer data, and the telephone companies would need to
   charge more. I believe it is fundamentally wrong for monopoly providers
   to discriminate costs on the content of the data transport. Instead
   the type of service (guaranteed delivery vs degradable) and total
   quantity should be used as the basis for usage charges.
   
7. Types of telephone service available decrease competition for net access

   Since the telephone companies, etc. do not provide modem access or
   low cost packet switched service (e.g. frame relay), access must
   be obtained from a third party internet provider(IP) or BBS, using
   the extra telephone lines as shown in the diagrams above. In order
   to avoid very expensive long distance telephone charges, IPs must
   provide POPs scattered across thier service areas.
   
   Because each IP must supply thier own remote POPs, the number of
   providers with POPs in a given location may be limited. For example,
   in the San Francisco area, there are a couple dozen companies
   offering internet access. However, there might only be 3 or 4
   companies with local dialup numbers. In some areas there is only 1,
   and in some all providers are long distance.
   
   The major national companies, e.g. Compuserve, have many local numbers,
   but these companies have very high fees and limited services (e.g.
   Compuserve does not have full internet access).

8. Internet access fees are based on peak transmit rate not quantity of data

  There is a current tradition of charging for internet access based
  on the maximum transmission speed. For example, a 28.8Kb access is
  1/2 a 56Kb access, which is 1/2 a 128Kb, etc. A user who uses 100%
  of the transmission capacity pays the same amount as a user who only
  uses 1% of the transmission capacity.
  
  For some new internet tools such as WWW, an infrequent high speed burst
  is very desirable. For example, a WWW page containing graphics might
  need to be retrieved within a few seconds, and then a user might spend
  a few minutes reading the data. In a large business this type of
  access is available for a few dollars per month, whereas an individual
  might need to pay more than $1000/mo with very high setup fees.
  
  Users with flat-rate high speed access can transmit video, which
  can use 100% of a transmission line, whereas a typical WWW user might
  only use a fraction of a percent. Thus video users end up paying
  very small rates, whereas typical WWW and email users pay high rates
  per unit of data.
  
  Many users have resisted the idea of usage fees as they could discourage
  usage. However, if the use fees were set at the cost to add additional
  capacity (perhaps at a larger scale in the future), then the cost
  would still be low except for high consumption use like video.
  
  For comparison, here are some typical usage charges:
  
     Local Daytime telephone		$21/GB
     On demand Video Movie		$.50/GB
     Discount night long dist telephone $100/GB
     1000 miles of T3 @ 25% utilization $12/GB
     
     PacBell packet data		$6400/GB
     Prodigy Internet Email		$16667/GB
     
  The T3 trunk lines are used as part of the internet backbone to
  connect the nation. If over a 24hr period, the trunk line is
  used on average at 25% of the maximum capacity, then the cost
  is currently about $10/GB, to add extra backbone capacity. Note
  this does not include the cost of local access and routers, but
  does give an approximate order of magnitude. Usage charges for
  telephone use, e.g. $21/GB, should be higher than computer data since
  the telephone use requires guaranteed capacity, whereas computer
  data transfer rates can be degraded as capacity fills.
  
  What may users are fearful of is the unreasonable usage rates which
  do not reflect incremental transmission costs. The usage charges
  from PacBell for packet switched data and email from major services
  like Prodigy and Compuserve are examples.
  
  If usage charges are comparable to daytime telephone, then a user
  who retrieves the equivalent of 1000 pages of compressed text per day
  would only pay $.63/mo in usage charges.
  
  In order to reduce usage over the network, there must be some
  economic incentive for internet providers to keep local copies of
  data for thier customers, and for users to use the network at night.
  A usage charge which is lower at off peak times is needed to
  shift use for bulk email, news, etc. from peak use times to times
  with excess capacity.
  
  Usage charges are also needed to permit reselling of capacity. If
  the charge is based on peak transfer rate, then companies which
  divide up and resell access to many users pay the same rate as
  a single user. Thus many companies restrict the types of use, which
  ends up limiting competition for service providers. On the other hand,
  it becomes difficult to choose a provider as they might have thier
  transmission capacity oversold.

9. The networking industry is building products for large businesses

    There has been an impressive development in networking technology
    which offers high speed at low cost. For example, ethernet interfaces
    for a computer cost $40 and transmit up to 100 meters at 10Mb
    (10000Kb).  These LAN products, and other WAN products, e.g. routers
    are designed to be used within a single company which might combine
    many workstations on a LAN with a router to other locations including
    an internet provider. Likewise, the digital telecommunications
    services offered by the telephone companies also address the needs
    of large businesses.
    
    Left out are similar products which are designed to be used by
    multiple companies or individuals, and routers, etc. which are
    designed to be placed between an individual home or office and the
    telephone company. For example, the 10Mb ethernet technology
    could almost be used in an apartment building, professional
    office building, shopping center, etc. in the way as for a LAN
    within a single corporation, sharing a single internet access line.
    However, the telephone company owns the lines outside of each
    apartment, etc. so it is difficult to implement. Also, the LAN
    equipment does not assume data from one user should be hidden
    from another. Although LAN equipment is very low cost, it couldn't
    be directly used (without encryption) as one business could trivially
    wiretap another.
    
    In order for industry to develop products designed for the ideal
    topology diagrammed above, there must be some organization to
    develop standards for equipment and to develop a market controlled
    by the telephone companies.

10. High density areas may obtain preferential access to independent providers

    If universal packet switched digital communications is not available
    through a telephone or cable monopoly, then independent companies will
    fill the gap. This is more or less the current state for internet
    access, where a number of companies (from part time bedroom operations
    to major national providers) compete to provide internet access with
    a wide variety of services for a wide variety of customers. This
    can be a free email only connection via modem up to optical fiber
    tied to the internet backbone.
    
    Though internet access is still relatively sparse, the percentage of
    homes and businesses which have internet access will continue to
    grow rapidly. Soon, some of the internet providers might try to
    work around the telephone company and provide service directly
    to multiple end users. Consider the office buildings in downtown
    San Francisco. A provider might be able to hook up all companies
    in a skyscraper with a high speed internet connection at a relatively
    low cost using LAN technology. Adjacent buildings could be connected
    together into the same router which uses a single high speed line
    into the internet. Dozens or hundreds of companies could be pooled
    together to share a single high speed line, e.g. optical fiber.
    Even if only 10% of the companies in a skyscraper subscribed, the
    high density makes costs to provide the service low.
    
    A similar scenario can be made for shopping centers, office buildings,
    apartment and condominium complexes etc. An independent provider
    would most likely wire up these kinds of buildings before individual
    houses and other low density areas.
    
    If the monopoly providers do not implement low cost packet switched
    access, then the result may be that the independents may "cherry
    pick" the high density areas with the lowest cost and highest return,
    leaving the rest for some future service to be provided by the
    telephone company. The telephone companies might then be stuck with
    customers with the highest costs.
From vcavail@latte.spl.lib.wa.us  Tue Nov 15 11:43:58 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 08:38:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Affordabilty and Availability <vcavail@latte.spl.lib.wa.us>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
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subscribe Reggie Moyer
subscribe rmoyer


"The above message was sent from the Seattle Public Library public access
point.  Though the Library is pleased to make this service available, The
views expressed in this message do not necessarily represent the position 
of the Seattle Public Library."

From ronda@panix.com  Tue Nov 15 12:45:24 1994
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From: Ronda Hauben <ronda@panix.com>
Message-Id: <199411151737.AA19711@panix2.panix.com>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:13]
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 12:37:31 -0500 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <9411150254.AA51246@admaix.sunydutchess.edu> from "Whittle, Frank" at Nov 15, 94 11:47:55 am
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> 
> I am currently conducting dissertation research on the
> relationship between promoting a telecommunication policy
> favoring  economic development and one favoring universal
> service. Specifically, I am interested in providing a stakeholder
> analysis to determine the level of agreement and/or disagreement 
> in perceptions on this relationship.

This is a helpful distinction because it seems that the real
terms of the debate are confused by the effort to replace 
benefitting the people of the society with "economic development"
The two are not the same.

The people of our society need the net and need universal service.

Economic development substitutes the interests of a small sector
of the population and claims it is the whole population.

The Internet and the Global Computer Network 
are providing a very important means for the people of our society
to have an ability to speak for themselves and to fight their own
battles to better the society.

Those who are trying to take the Net away, which the NII thus far
has been part of by focusing on the business interests and ignoring
the public interests, are forces to try to impede the further 
development of the Net.

I have a paper I have written recently about the development of
the Global Network -- looking at its history and development.

I would like to post it to this discussion but it is lengthy
so want to know if that is ok.

Knowing the history of the development of the Net is a very important 
piece of figuring out how to continue that development, yet that
history is hidden while book publishers rush to publish books 
about how to make a "fortune" off the internet. They won't publish
books about how the Net was built.

If the Clinton Administration had been interested in the history
and development of the Net, one wonders if they would have rushed
to place the NII committee in the U.S. Dept of Commerce.

> 
> The term "economic development" has become prominent in state
> telecommunication policy during the last ten years as the states
> battle to retain and attract industry. It appears from the
> preliminary research that the issue of providing universal access
> (services) has become less prominent in policy documents.
> 

The whole notion that government has an obligation to serve 
the public has been lost - instead there is only concern with
serving business interests.

That is a real loss for our society and has resulted in the U.S.
government support and aid to the ever lowering living standard
of the majority of people in the U.S. and the lengthening hours
of work.

Technological advances like the global computer network are 
needed to make life better for the public - that requires that
the whole debate and discussion not only be opened up so the 
public can be able to make its voices heard, but also that
the interests of the public be the primary concern, not the 
interests of the big corporations.

Even Adam Smith in his economic work "The Wealth of Nations"
notes that the interests of the public and the interests of 
the business community are not the same.

> Although my study will concentrate on policy in New York State, I
> would welcome any leads on previous research in this area. Also,
> I am interested in any comments you may have and/or suggestions
> in this area.

I suggest you and others interested in this question look at the 
netbook that is available via www and gopher and
ftp titled "The Netizens and the Wonderful World of the Net: An
Anthology on the History and Impact of the Net"

it is available via www in a formated copy from
http://scrg.cs.tcd.ie/scrg/u/rcwoods.html
and in an unformatted copy from

	http://www.cc.columbia.edu/~hauben/project_book.html

by Gopher:

gopher://gopher.cic.net/1/e-serials/alphabetic/a/amateur-computerist/netbook

by Anonymous FTP:

wuarchive.wustl.edu
in directory
/doc/misc/acn/netbook



> Frank Whittle
> email: whittle@sunydutchess.edu
> 
The process by which the Global Computer Network has been built
needs to be studied and learned from if the development will go
forward - thus there is an important reason to carefully look at
the history and impact of what has been built before rushing ahead
to change that course.

The role the Global Computer Network plays today in helping to
make automation work is a tremendously important role.

The computer pioneers who were creating time sharing back in the 
early 1960's were interested in creating a community for those
involved in applying and developing computer technology. That
is what the Net has become and it has made it possible for this
technology to go forward because people get the help they need
to solve the difficult problems posed by the technology.

When J.C.R. Licklider, who can be called
the Father of the old Arpanet (which set the basis for
the internet) looked to a future vision for the Net, he 
proposed that as the Net expanded it would need more and more
people to help with the debugging that was required to help it
expand and therefore there was a need to expand access to many
more folks so they could be online to help with that debugging.

This a very different vision than any of the so called "electronic
shopping marts" that permeate the current proposed visions for
the future of the Net.

Thus from the history will come a sense of what is the needed
way forward and without considering the history, those involved
in policy will be more likely to propose a backwards step.


Ronda 
ronda@panix.com
--------
ronda@panix.com or ae547@yfn.ysu.edu
Norbert Wiener, the father of cybernetics, proposed that the
governed have to find a way to get feedback to the governors
But the process seems especially hard with regard to the policy
planning that has been going on about the future of the Net.
From don@dcez.com  Tue Nov 15 13:30:40 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 13:19:05 -500 (EST)
From: Don Evans <don@dcez.com>
Subject: Testing
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
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Why can't I get anything to post here??????

don@dcez.com

From don@dcez.com  Tue Nov 15 13:44:26 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 13:32:47 -500 (EST)
From: Don Evans <don@dcez.com>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:17] Key Issues of Affordability and Availability
To: virtconf.ntia.doc.gov!avail@uunet.uu.net
In-Reply-To: <9411151111.AA18658@slick.chage.com>
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testing avail

Don Evans
National Endowment for the Arts
don@dcez.com

From rbarry@hopper.itc.virginia.edu  Tue Nov 15 13:46:10 1994
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From: Rey Barry <rbarry@hopper.itc.virginia.edu>
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Subject: Re: [AVAIL:16] testing alt.ntia.avail
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 13:38:16 -0500 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <009877F6.09E3BD80.60@clp2.clpgh.org> from "Virginia Correa" at Nov 15, 94 11:50:16 am
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> 
> Path: clpgh.org!correav
> From: correav@clpgh.org (Virginia Correa)
> Newsgroups: alt.ntia.avail
> Subject: testing alt.ntia.avail
> Message-ID: <1994Nov15.094430.2653@clp2>
> Date: 15 Nov 94 09:44:30 -5
> Organization: Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh
> News-Moderator: Approval required for posting to alt.ntia.avail
> Lines: 8
> 
> Test msg. from correav to alt.ntia.avail
> 
> -- 
> +++  Virginia Correa - Head, Automation Division
> +++  The Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh
> +++  4400 Forbes Ave., Pittsburgh, PA 15213
> +++  correav@clpgh.org - 412-622-1945
> 
> +++  Virginia Correa - Head, Automation Division
> +++  The Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh
> +++  4400 Forbes Ave., Pittsburgh, PA 15213
> +++  correav@clpgh.org - 412-622-1945

There are at least two of us alive, Virginia.

-- 
 
 rbarry@hopper.itc.virginia.edu          Freeware Hall of Fame BBS  
    The only thing Americans       Hayes Optima 288 - 804-293-4710 
   have in common is paranoia.       Free BBS - 1st call downloads  
From public4@efn.org  Tue Nov 15 14:10:02 1994
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From: Public Terminal 4 <public4@efn.org>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov>
Subject: Where's the discussion?
In-Reply-To: <1994Nov15.002742.7646@virgin.uvi.edu>
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Hellooooooo????  Is there a problem from the listserv?  We haven't 
received any discussion since 14:40 yesterday.  

Penny

From markwood@metolius.cocc.edu  Tue Nov 15 15:28:01 1994
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To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
From: markwood@metolius.cocc.edu (Dick Markwood)
Organization: Central Oregon Community College
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 11:32:16 PDT
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:11] Re:

subcribe wvia

From ntiagate@virgin.uvi.edu  Tue Nov 15 15:31:13 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 14:09:05 GMT
From: ab147@virgin.uvi.edu (Gary M. Goodlander)
Message-ID: <1994Nov15.140905.16422@virgin.uvi.edu>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Cheap Public Access



I want to see cheap public access to the Internet, and
other informational services. 

If this isn't something 'good' that government can do
for the people relatively inexpensively... I don't know
what is. 

Rich people can afford good home libraries, but poor
kids can't. 

Many of those poor kids, however, either have access to 
a computer at school, elsewhere, or (perhaps) even a home. 

Let's make sure that the collective information of our society
is availible (as much as possible) to everyone... rich or poor.

Thanks for listening. 

PS. I live on a small boat anchored off a tiny island. To residents
of the 'turd world', the internet is a wonderful resource...

Gary, aka Cap'n Fattt


>From news Tue Nov 15 10:14:47 1994
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Status: RO
X-Status: D

From barcelom@ERE.UMontreal.CA  Tue Nov 15 16:47:18 1994
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From: Barcelo Alain-Michel <barcelom@ERE.UMontreal.CA>
Sender: Barcelo Alain-Michel <barcelom@ERE.UMontreal.CA>
Reply-To: Barcelo Alain-Michel <barcelom@ERE.UMontreal.CA>
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One issue of affordability and availability which has not been raised yet 
is the question of trans-national or international use of, for example, 
the Internet. Since there is no multilateral organization to regulate 
rates between countries with public and/or private telecom companies, we 
could have people deprived of access to important information which would 
have been conceived especially for them, or without any tought given to 
their deprivation. 


-----------------barcelom@ERE.UMontreal.CA-------------------------- 
|                                                                  | 
|         Michel Barcelo       |      Institut d'urbanisme         | 
|      Professeur titulaire    |     Universite de Montreal        | 
|                              |    Faculte de l'amenagement       |
|     Tel.:(1)(514) 343-6893   |  C.P. 6128,  Succ. "Centre-ville" | 
|     Fax :(1)(514) 343-2338   |  MONTREAL (Quebec) H3C 3J7 CANADA | 
--------------------------------------------------------------------                                
 




From BMSLIB@MITVMA.MIT.EDU  Tue Nov 15 19:36:52 1994
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Date:         Tue, 15 Nov 94 18:04:14 EST
From: "W. Curtiss Priest" <BMSLIB@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      Introduction to LINCT for low cost availability
To: NTIA Forum on Availability and Cost <AVAIL@VIRTCONF.NTIA.DOC.GOV>,
        NTIA discussion on Universal Service
 <REDEFUS@VIRTCONF.NTIA.DOC.GOV>



At the suggestion of my associate, Dr. Curtiss Priest, who has been forwarding
to me many insightful messages from members of this list about the development
of the NII and community networks, I'd like to share with you the following
information about a recently formed coalition to help provide developing
community networks with required assistance and software tools.
I share this publication in the hope that some of you may give me
some feedback and others interested in joining the coalition can get
in touch with us.

Thanks, Ken Komoski (email: komoski@BNLCL6.BNL.GOV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________________________________________
                               LINCT
       (Learning and Information Network for Community Telecomputing)

LINCT is a not-for-profit coalition of socially-concerned organizations --
working with affiliated businesses and local governments, libraries, schools,
and social services-- to help communities achieve universal, equitable access
to integrated, community -wide electronic information and learning services.
LINCT does this by stimulating the growth of grassroots community telecomputing
cooperatives, to which it provides strategic advice and technical assistance.
In addition to helping communities integrate local services, LINCT helps
communities to build low-cost, locally-managed "on-ramps" to the national
information highway.  Through the "BET Initiative" LINCT helps communities to
recycle used business computers to poverty-level and low-income families and
seniors who may earn them by learning how to use them through training provided
by volunteer computer-literates at local community centers and/or libraries and
schools.

The first communities assisted by LINCT are five towns in Eastern Long Island,
NY where LINCT is working closely with the library system, town governments,
schools, and social services agencies within an integrated, systemic model.
Other communities on Long Island, in New York City, and in upstate New York, and
in seven other states are affiliated with LINCT in order to achieve the shared
goal of low-cost, universal, equitable access to information and learning.

LINCT's purposes:

(1)  help achieve low-cost, universal and equitable access to telecomputing for
homes, schools, libraries, municipal and social service agencies, and community
businesses;

(2) promote lifelong learning and earning in all communities via cooperative
telecomputing ;

(3)  keep the cost of telecomputing low through cooperative purchasing and
licensing agreements with regional and national providers of network services,
including the Internet;

(4) create specific programs and databases that will help communities to achieve
the above.

An example of one such program is Businesses for Equity in Telecomputing (BET).
BET helps communities to:

(a) facilitate the recycling of used business computers to low-income families,
by enabling them to earn them through their learning to use them to
telecommunicate locally and nationwide;

(b) develop cooperative training programs conducted by community volunteers,
during which low-income families earn a home computer-and-modem by learning how
to use a computer to become full participants in America's fast-changing
information society.

Other LINCT programs being developed include improving home-school-social agency
communications, primary health and crime prevention, online homework mentoring,
and the online operation of community-based "time-dollar" exchanges  linked to
at-home, work-related training.  LINCT and its growing network of affiliated
not-for-profit organizations are prepared to assist communities to develop local
telecomputing cooperatives to bring the benefits of low-cost telecomputing to
all community members.
________________________________________________________________________
              LINCT % The Hamlet Green\ Hampton Bays, NY 11946    Tel:
                            516.728.9100


LINCT's Member Organizations

The member organizations of the LINCT coalition are the Center for Information,
Technology and Society (CITS), Melrose, Massachusetts;  The Educational Products
Information Exchange (EPIE) Institute, Hampton Bays, New York, and the Time
Dollars Network, Washington, D.C.  Each organization is making a significant,
in-kind contribution in staff time assigned to LINCT as its match of Federal
grant dollars.

LINCT's affiliates:  Science Linkages in the Community (SLIC), a national
community-outreach program of the American Association for the Advancement of
Science, as well as the LINCT-affiliated, communities (eight, in six states as
of (9/1/94), including community libraries, local governments, schools,
community colleges, human services, and local and regional businesses
cooperating in the BET Initiatives.

LINCT's leadership:  Each of LINCT's three, founding organizations brings both
expert staffing and information resources to this planning and development
project that will contribute to its success:

% Curtiss Priest, Director of CITS, is a systems analyst, economist, software
designer, who has conducted policy, evaluation, technology-transfer, and cost-
effectiveness studies of information technology for the Congressional Office of
Technology Assessment (OTA), U.S.DoE, NASA, MIT, the American Association of
Retired Persons (AARP), and EPIE Institute

% Kenneth Komoski, LINCT's Administrative Director, has been consulting and
writing on community telecomputing since 1986, and has directed the work of EPIE
Institute for over two decades; under his leadership EPIE maintains the nation's
only comprehensive, electronic databases of information on all types of
electronic learning resources.

% Edgar Cahn, founder of the Time Dollars Network, consults with community Time
Dollar Exchanges operating in 30 U.S. states, Japan, and other countries. With
LINCT, the Time Dollars Network will develop community-networkable software and
training programs to facilitate the ability of members of low-income and
minority communities to learn-and-earn the computers, modems and software needed
to access the NII for job-training and work opportunities.


LINCT's Program of Activities

%  TAP --  Technical Assistance and Planning  support for local community
telecomputing initiatives in need of help in designing, developing and
delivering social and educational services with an emphasis on arriving at the
most cost-effective system for a particular community.

%  BET --  Businesses for Equity in Telecomputing,  enabling low-income families
to earn a family computer -- plus computer training -- by earning "time dollars"
for completing training at a community center in how to use telecomputing to
improve family learning and earning power. Business-donated computers-plus-
modems are currently being received from large and small businesses on Long
Island, N.Y. where the BET Initiative is being piloted by LINCT (nationally,
businesses currently own over 150 million computers, more than 15 million of
which are replaced annually).  LINCT envisions a nationwide, community-focused
BET distribution system for donated computers to local community centers where
low-income families will be trained in telecomputing, as a means of earning a
home computer and modem.

%  LET -- Learning-for-Earning Training, providing any community member (but
especially the unemployed) with the means to learn useful skills at home via
telecomputing resources available via DIRECT (see below);

%  DIRECT -- Digital Information Resources for Education and Career Training,
electronically accessible by learners (and/or parents and teachers) for the
planning and the delivery of learning resources to homes and schools via
community telecomputing cooperatives.

% TACT -- Teachers Assisted by Community Telecomputing, assisting teachers to
use community telecomputing to (a) communicate more efficiently and effectively
with parents, (b) integrate student at-home computer learning with in-school
learning, (c) access to information on teaching resources via DIRECT, (d) access
to professional training via distance learning, (f) access to SELF (see below)
to facilitate students' development as self-directed learners.

% SELF -- Self-Exploration of Learning Frameworks, helping learners of all ages
to use DIRECT to explore areas of learning in relation to school curricula or in
response to personal interests and/or career development needs;

%  PPP -- Primary Prevention Programs, a means for assisting local health
service agencies and local police to use telecomputing to maintain healthier and
less violent communities;

%  CDA -- Community Development Activities,, such as online neighborhood
organizations and projects, community planning forums, town meetings, school-
business academies, library outreach, etc;

% TDE -- Time Dollar Exchanges,; "dollars" that may be earned by any member of a
community willing to help others by providing skilled or unskilled services
ranging from babysitting to yardwork and from database development to  computer
trouble-shooting.  Time-Dollar transactions will be arranged for, recorded,
managed, and traded through a community managed Time-Dollar Exchange (reinforced
by both LET and DIRECT, see above).

For further information about LINCT contact:

                              Kenneth Komoski
                          Administrative Director
            LINCT %  Suite 3 \The Hamlet Green\ Hampton Bays, NY 11946
  Voice: (516) 728-9100 \ Fax (516) 728-9228\ email: KOMOSKI@BNLCL6.BNL.GOV
______________________________________________________________________________
From BMSLIB@MITVMA.MIT.EDU  Tue Nov 15 19:36:52 1994
Received: from mitvma.mit.edu (MITVMA.MIT.EDU [18.92.0.3]) by virtconf.digex.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA00167; Tue, 15 Nov 1994 19:36:52 -0800
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Date:         Tue, 15 Nov 94 18:05:07 EST
From: "W. Curtiss Priest" <BMSLIB@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      Information about LINCT's BET program to get business help for
 networks
To: NTIA Forum on Availability and Cost <AVAIL@VIRTCONF.NTIA.DOC.GOV>,
        NTIA discussion on Universal Service
 <REDEFUS@VIRTCONF.NTIA.DOC.GOV>



At the suggestion of my associate, Dr. Curtiss Priest, who has been forwarding
to me many insightful messages from members of this list about the development
of the NII and community networks, I'd like to share with you the following
information about an iniative I have been discussing with the Whitehouse
about a way to provide low cost networking for this country
I share this publication in the hope that some of you may give me
some feedback and others interested in encouraging others to support
this initiative.

Thanks, Ken Komoski (email: komoski@BNLCL6.BNL.GOV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________________________________________
See the companion paper describing LINCT
(Learning and Information Network for Community Telecomputing)

LINCT's Associated Business Communities
LINCT has initiated an outreach program to Long Island
businesses in order to develop "LINCT's Associated Business
Communities (ABCs)."

Some business communities (e.g., telephone, cable, computer
software) have obvious relevance to LINCT's activities, but
LINCT's position is that all businesses can relate
productively to community telecomputing -- if only through
the benefits of low-cost E-mail service. But many, such as
the banking and newspaper communities, see the benefits of
having a community of telecomputing-using customers, who are
more likely to use online banking and online news services.

While ABCs are likely to become an ongoing source of fund-
raising support for special needs and projects,  LINCT's
outreach to ABCs at present is primarily focused on a project
designed to encourage businesses to donate used computers to
low-income families in LINCT communities. This effort is
called BET (Businesses for Equity in Telecomputing ).  Its
rationale:  "It's a low stakes gamble for businesses to bet
on the power of community telecomputing to stimulate and to
develop the learning and earning power of low-income families
in LINCT communities."  This part of LINCT's program simply
is encouraging businesses to place a no cost bet on in the
form of used equipment for which they can get a modest tax
credit (plus good public relations) via a tax-deductible
contribution.  (note:  LINCT has proposed in discussion with
members of the White House Office of Science and Technology
Policy that it arrange for a Presidential Commendation
Certificate to be presented to every business on Long Island
-- and in other regions where community telecomputing is
developing -- whenever a business donates used computers for
low-income family use. The hope is that LINCT can convince
the White House to stimulate  BET-like programs in other CPB-
funded CWEIS projects.)

Given the fact that there are an estimated 150 million
microcomputers currently in use in America's businesses, and
that, conservatively, about 10 percent of these are being
displaced each year by more powerful machines, LINCT expects
BET to pay off well for low-income families on Long Island,
where there are many high-tech businesses. Initial
discussions with a number of such businesses about BET are
quite encouraging (see appendix for letters).


FOR FURTHER INFORMATION ABOUT BET CONTACT:

                              Kenneth Komoski
                          Administrative Director
            LINCT %  Suite 3 \The Hamlet Green\ Hampton Bays, NY 11946
  Voice: (516) 728-9100 \ Fax (516) 728-9228\ email: KOMOSKI@BNLCL6.BNL.GOV
______________________________________________________________________________
From mcdonald@cais.com  Tue Nov 15 19:49:23 1994
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Received: from [198.69.141.116] (mcdonald.cais.com [198.69.141.116]) by cais.cais.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id TAA20668; Tue, 15 Nov 1994 19:41:23 -0500
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Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 19:41:38 -0500
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
From: mcdonald@cais.cais.com (Bill McDonald)
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:21] Testing
Cc: don@dcez.com

>Why can't I get anything to post here??????
>
>don@dcez.com

You got this to post!!!!

Bill McDonald      mcdonald@cais.com


From mnasstro@ednet1.osl.or.gov  Tue Nov 15 19:57:30 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 15:18:03 -0800
Message-Id: <199411152318.AA23385@ednet1.osl.or.gov>
From: mnasstro@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Mark C. Nasstrom)
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:18] Key Issues of Affordability and Availability
Reply-To: mnasstro@ednet1.osl.or.gov



Testing..Testing....
All Systems Go, on The Edge Of North America.
This is a Test of the Oregon Coast Rural Information Service Cooperative.
1521 Hrs PST

--
"Credible Deterrence Starts Here..."   @ ---*> The Lumberyard BBS <*--- @ 
 *> Hardwired On The Edge of North America @ YACHATS 503.547.4605 OREGON <*
*******> Member Oregon Coast Rural Information Service Cooperative <*******

From don@dcez.com  Tue Nov 15 20:24:21 1994
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	id QQxqev03423; Tue, 15 Nov 1994 20:16:22 -0500
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 20:12:09 -500 (EST)
From: Don Evans <don@dcez.com>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:23] Re: testing
To: virtconf.ntia.doc.gov!avail@uunet.uu.net
In-Reply-To: <199411151838.NAA19929@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU>
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MIME-Version: 1.0
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Sender: don@dcez.com

Testing from DCEZ.COM......
From don@dcez.com  Tue Nov 15 20:27:01 1994
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	id QQxqev03797; Tue, 15 Nov 1994 20:19:06 -0500
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 20:14:54 -500 (EST)
From: Don Evans <don@dcez.com>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:21] Testing
To: Bill McDonald <cais.cais.com!mcdonald@uunet.uu.net>
cc: virtconf.ntia.doc.gov!avail@uunet.uu.net, dcez.com!don@uunet.uu.net
In-Reply-To: <199411160041.TAA20668@cais.cais.com>
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Sender: don@dcez.com

I am really confused about how this thing is working.  I thought my post 
to avail@virtconf.ntia.doc would be send back to me, and I would see it 
show up in my email box, so how did it get to Bill McDonald?


On Tue, 15 Nov 1994, Bill McDonald wrote:

> >Why can't I get anything to post here??????
> >
> >don@dcez.com
> 
> You got this to post!!!!
> 
> Bill McDonald      mcdonald@cais.com
> 
> 
> 
From twigs@sils.umich.edu  Tue Nov 15 20:42:07 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 20:36:05 -0500 (EST)
From: "Cynthia S. Terwilliger" <twigs@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:32] Re: Key Issues of Affordability and Availability
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
cc: Multiple recipients of list <avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov>
In-Reply-To: <199411152318.AA23385@ednet1.osl.or.gov>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9411152007.B7150-0100000@sils.umich.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I'l like to hear more from the Oregon edge of the world.  Being from a 
small, rural library in the Upper Penisula of Michigan, with a very small 
tax base...faced with geographical isolation and no clout...how do we get 
our voices heard and assure our partrons equal and universal access to 
these new and wonderful services...we have no local nodes...every hook up 
is a long distance call.  What are you doing over there?
From rbarry@hopper.itc.virginia.edu  Tue Nov 15 21:41:41 1994
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          15 Nov 94 18:28 EST
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From: Rey Barry <rbarry@hopper.itc.virginia.edu>
Message-Id: <199411152328.SAA43939@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:22] Re: Key Issues of Affordability and Availability
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 18:28:16 -0500 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411151328.B2445-0100000@dcez.dcez.com> from "Don Evans" at Nov 15, 94 05:52:17 pm
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> 
> testing avail
> 
> Don Evans
> National Endowment for the Arts
> don@dcez.com
> 

You are coming through.  Shall I say hello to my friend Robert Garfias
for you?



-- 
 
 rbarry@hopper.itc.virginia.edu          Freeware Hall of Fame BBS  
    The only thing Americans       Hayes Optima 288 - 804-293-4710 
   have in common is paranoia.       Free BBS - 1st call downloads  
From rbarry@hopper.itc.virginia.edu  Tue Nov 15 21:41:42 1994
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          15 Nov 94 18:31 EST
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From: Rey Barry <rbarry@hopper.itc.virginia.edu>
Message-Id: <199411152331.SAA43534@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:24] Where's the discussion?
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 18:31:12 -0500 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.90.941115105516.20476B-100000@efn.org> from "Public Terminal 4" at Nov 15, 94 05:53:32 pm
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> 
> 
> Hellooooooo????  Is there a problem from the listserv?  We haven't 
> received any discussion since 14:40 yesterday.  

Penny, we received nothing at all Monday and very little Tuesday here in
Virginia.  How much traffic did you see Monday?

-- 
 
 rbarry@hopper.itc.virginia.edu          Freeware Hall of Fame BBS  
    The only thing Americans       Hayes Optima 288 - 804-293-4710 
   have in common is paranoia.       Free BBS - 1st call downloads  
From hwh6k@fulton.seas.virginia.edu  Tue Nov 15 22:12:34 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 22:04:37 -0500
From: Henry Huang <hwh6k@fulton.seas.virginia.edu>
Message-Id: <199411160304.WAA57037@fulton.seas.Virginia.EDU>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:1] NTIA Virtual Conference KeyNote Address

Sorry if much of this stuff has been covered already ... I've been
busy/sick as of late and haven't had othe chance to wade through
all the messages from the various lists ...

On Nov 14,  9:08, NTIA Virtual Conference wrote:
> Through the NII, the Administration is focusing on the ability of
> computer mediated communications to enhance the life and work of
> every American.  The NII is a harbinger of change, both economic
> and political, and holds great promise for the future of America. 

The NII is NOT a harbringer of change ... the Internet WAS -- hence
this conference (run using list server software on a UNIX box, and
sent mostly over Internet links).  This is further reflected in your
next statement:

> Some benefits of the NII include telecommuting, distance learning
> and active life-long education, remote consultations with expert
> medical professionals, as well as new forms of art, entertainment
> and culture.

All of this has been kicked around in one form or another on the
Internet; the idea of videoconferencing (i.e. remote consultations)
dates back at LEAST 20 years to some of the early demos at Xerox
PARC (just saw a fascinating video on this in one of my classes
today).  All of these things CAN already be done in one form or
another; if the NII turns out to be just a higher-bandwidth Internet,
that's fine -- but that doesn't make it a "harbringer of change" in
and of itself.

I think the best way to think about the NII is to frame it in the
scenario of past technologies, in both their successes and failures.
We're sitting here talking about wiring up people's houses for the
Net when an awful lot of people don't even have PHONE service.
Also, merely providing access barely scratches the surface of what's
required -- it's easy for us to fall into the trap of thinking that
ALL people who have this will be instantly fascinated by it, and
somehow have both the skill and motivation required to MASTER the new
techology.

Bringing technology that's both powerful and unusable does no one
any good -- think of VCR programming (or setting the clock on a VCR,
for that matter!  =)  2 *BIG* problems with the Internet right now
are the lack of a consistent, usable interface, and the TOTAL lack
of people at individual sites who are willing to train and educate
new users.  Also, resources for newbies tend to be few, far between,
and hard to find (i.e. you have to KNOW how/where to find the answer
in order to get it -- thus totally defeating the purpose).  USENET
newsgroups such as news.announce.newusers attempt to alleviate the
problem, but they're not the right answer -- the responsibility for
this has to be assumed by the administrators at each site.  Failing
that, the responsibility rests on the rest of us who know to help
educate others, in whatever way we can.

The availability of such user training/education is crucial, because
the consequences of NOT getting it right are insidious, serious --
and inevitable.  Not making technology accessible -- both physically
and mentally -- to those who have not experienced it ultimately affects
societal attitudes toward technology.  When people can't use E-mail,
or can't figure out FTP, or Windows, or even their word processor,
they don't think "oh, I can't use this because the interface SUCKS",
it's usually more like "gee, everybody else is getting this; I must
NOT BE GOOD WITH COMPUTERS or something".  This is really more of a
psychological consequence than anything else, but it's still valid.

We already live in a world of technical "haves" and "have nots" --
both in technology AND in knowledge ("knows" and "knows nots"?)
Understanding why the gap exists and the consequences of such a
societal split is the FIRST step to understanding what needs to be
addressed with the NII.  Ultimately, it may even predict whether
the NII succeeds or fails miserably (remember: a lot of people don't
have PHONES, much less network service.  The question is WHY?)

> This conference is an experiment in a new form of dialog among
> citizens and with their government.  The conference is not a one-
> way, top down approach, it is a conversation.  It holds the
> promise of reworking the compact between citizens and their
> government.

This is true only if both sides are listening to what the other has
to say -- and are ultimately willing to ACT on it.  If not, then
whatever's said here will be for naught.  Although I heartily support
the idea of this conference, my gut suspicion tells me that an awful
lot of this will be for naught, primarily because some of the key
points under examination may ultimately be determined by other factors
than what us users (and voters) think -- be it political, market-
driven, social, whatever.  In particular, although I support the ideal
of free (or cheap -- like a newspaper) public access, I'm somewhat
doubtful as to whether it's practical; hopefully when I have more time
I'll be able to read some of these replies and find out.

-H
From marym@Finesse.COM  Tue Nov 15 22:30:20 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 19:19:26 +0800
From: marym@Finesse.COM (Mary Morris)
Message-Id: <9411160319.AA01799@thyme.finesse.com>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:34] Re: Testing
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
content-length: 811

Two things to be aware of here. Some listservs don't send a copy
back to you. Secondarily, and relating to availability of service,
someone has done a serious email spam today to aproximatly 950
Bitnet email lists. Since this type of traffic is about 3 times
the email that the Internet handles in a day, many email things are very 
slow.

I am still receiving email so I may not be caught up at this 
point, but here's my discussion/question. 

How do you manage availability when one person can destroy the 
infrastructure so easily? NII may be a vast resource, but it isn't
unlimited.


Mary
 
> I am really confused about how this thing is working.  I thought my post 
> to avail@virtconf.ntia.doc would be send back to me, and I would see it 
> show up in my email box, so how did it get to Bill McDonald?
From silke001@maroon.tc.umn.edu  Tue Nov 15 23:39:50 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 94 22:35:14 CST
From: "Chris Silker" <silke001@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
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To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Info for Don Evans; Privacy conference query

You can't read your own posts unless you send a command to the listserv to 
do so (assuming that this list is set up to do such things at all).  If 
it can, you would send a message to "listserv@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov" 
(without the quotes) - body of the message reads "set avail repro".  
Nothing goes in the subject line.

Is anyone signed onto the Privacy conferences, and if so, have you received 
anything from it yet?

Forgive me if this is a simplistic question, but what are the possibilities 
of providing e-mail accounts to the interested who do not have the 
opportunity for access elsewhere (such as people who don't have phone 
service or can't spring for a private carrier) through the public library 
system?  I have seen messages that indicate they are being sent from public 
libraries.  Is this widespread?  My branch librarian was just exclaiming 
that they recently got on the Net.

C. Silker

From msalo@garnet.acns.fsu.edu  Wed Nov 16 00:18:00 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 23:42:34 +22311151 (EST)
From: Marty Salo <msalo@garnet.acns.fsu.edu>
Subject: my question
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
In-Reply-To: <9411160319.AA01799@thyme.finesse.com>
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OK, as I see things, the cable companies want the NII to have 50,000
channels, the post office wants to get into the information provider
bussiness with their kiosk idea, and some public libraries are having
freenets which sort of compete with private enterprize building the NII,
others are saying that to call it a NII itself is a falsehood, because it
truly should be a GII.  Now I think that if we are talking relatively
short term, we might be talking about a multi-gigabit backbone, and maybe
evven gigabit lines connecting cities with each other.  

The public libraries are basicly run by governments, which are competing
with private enterprize.  I'm a library student, hoping to get involved
in net.training, and I think that the freenets are wonderful ideas, but
at the same time, I believe that the Clinton Administration would rather
not foot the bill for the network.  So, I guess I'm wanting some sort of
feedback as to how thw present administration feels about letting the
libraries try to satisfy the public's desire to connect to the net.  Will
this be yet another example where government sides with business, and the
library's role is diminished?  Will we have 50,000 channels with all
sorts of complex and expensive packaging of channels?
    

Marty Salo + msalo@garnet.acns.fsu.edu + http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/~msalo 

From sconnell@silver.ucs.indiana.edu  Wed Nov 16 00:41:20 1994
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From: Sean <sconnell@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:41] my question
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 00:33:24 -0500 (EST)
Cc: sconnell@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Sean)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9411152332.B50473-b100000@garnet.acns.fsu.edu> from "Marty Salo" at Nov 16, 94 00:19:05 am
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If things go as it looks like they are going now, libraries will
lose out to bussiness in the war for the net.  Yes, this means
that we will be drowning in a deluge of what big bussiness tells
us we want to hear and the magic of the net will vanish in a poof
of monied interests. Some estimates that I have read say that it
should cost no more than $10 a year per user for universal access
to the national network, including library sites so that those
without phones or home computers have access.  The NSF has decided
against funding the internet anymore and all the talk of hard is
about the privatizing of the net. No one seems to get the point
involved (or, worse:  They *do* get the point).  The backbone of
the net should be retained by the government.  The cost is relatively
inexpensive and the benefits are grand.  Paying large fees (some
plans call for charges based on the amount of data consumed and
others by time spent net-surfing) defeats the nature of the net.
We have possibilities for direct democracy.  At the very least,
for representation of mentally distinct groups as opposed to
physical.  That is, now we are represented in Congress by geographical
area, not what our opinions support.  Further, money can be *gained*
from bussiness by charging them to advertise on the net while
allowing free public use.  The large customer base will attract 
the bussiness money and cover for the rest of us and then some.
Bussiness may complain that they are taking on more than their
burden, but they will also reap financial benefits that will cover
the price of admission.  
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------~
| Sean Connelly                   "Cyberpunk is a revolution   |
| sconnell@silver.ucs.indiana.edu  that has already become     |
| sconnell@acoma.ucs.indiana.edu   the establishment."         |
| sleeze@well.sf.ca.us              --Someone with a clue      |
---------------------------------------------------------------~~
From rbarry@hopper.itc.virginia.edu  Wed Nov 16 00:48:28 1994
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From: Rey Barry <rbarry@hopper.itc.virginia.edu>
Message-Id: <199411160540.AAA29559@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:42] Re: my question
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 00:40:37 -0500 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199411160841.AAA27213@virtconf.digex.net> from "Sean" at Nov 16, 94 00:41:56 am
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> area, not what our opinions support.  Further, money can be *gained*
> from bussiness by charging them to advertise on the net while
> allowing free public use.  The large customer base will attract 

You're overlooking that we pay every cent back to business they spend
advertising, plus profit.  All costs are passed along to the final
consumer.  It's the basic flaw in the argument that commercial TV is
"free."  It's anything but.  

Sorry for the e-mail reply, but our newsgroups are totally empty.  I'm
only seeing forums via e-mail.


-- 
 
 rbarry@hopper.itc.virginia.edu          Freeware Hall of Fame BBS  
    The only thing Americans       Hayes Optima 288 - 804-293-4710 
   have in common is paranoia.       Free BBS - 1st call downloads  
From debut@MO.NET  Wed Nov 16 01:00:00 1994
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Subject: Re: [AVAIL:42] Re: my question
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
cc: Multiple recipients of list <avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov>
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On Wed, 16 Nov 1994, Sean wrote:

> If things go as it looks like they are going now, libraries will
> lose out to bussiness in the war for the net.  Yes, this means
> that we will be drowning in a deluge of what big bussiness tells
> us we want to hear and the magic of the net will vanish in a poof
> of monied interests. Some estimates that I have read say that it

> involved (or, worse:  They *do* get the point).  The backbone of
> the net should be retained by the government.  The cost is relatively
> inexpensive and the benefits are grand.  Paying large fees (some
> plans call for charges based on the amount of data consumed and
> others by time spent net-surfing) defeats the nature of the net.
> We have possibilities for direct democracy.  At the very least,
> for representation of mentally distinct groups as opposed to
> physical.  That is, now we are represented in Congress by geographical
> area, not what our opinions support.  Further, money can be *gained*
> from bussiness by charging them to advertise on the net while
> allowing free public use.  The large customer base will attract 
> the bussiness money and cover for the rest of us and then some.
> Bussiness may complain that they are taking on more than their
> burden, but they will also reap financial benefits that will cover
> the price of admission.  
> -- 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------~
> | Sean Connelly                   "Cyberpunk is a revolution   |
> | sconnell@silver.ucs.indiana.edu  that has already become     |
> | sconnell@acoma.ucs.indiana.edu   the establishment."         |
> | sleeze@well.sf.ca.us              --Someone with a clue      |
> ---------------------------------------------------------------~~
> 

I agree completely.  However I want to take a more naive track and 
believe that there are businesses who's interest it is to maintain
the library freenets and offer connections into the NII or GII or 
whatever it may be.

Consider our situation here in St. Louis.  We are finally getting on line 
here, adn have a rapidly growing local providre into the internet.  At 
some point it will be economically feasible for them to maintain library 
connections at little cost.  We all know that at the very least the 
national backbone is installed, and I suppose paid for.  If we shrink 
this analogy, we might see growing companies with growing resources 
extending them in ways that are like the above situation here in St.
Louis.  Wys which are essentially not impacting the cost effectiveness of 
there installed base but providing a needed service none the less.

Dave

From sconnell@silver.ucs.indiana.edu  Wed Nov 16 01:08:45 1994
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From: Sean <sconnell@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:43] Re: my question...and more
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 01:00:30 -0500 (EST)
Cc: sconnell@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Sean)
In-Reply-To: <199411160540.AAA29559@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU> from "Rey Barry" at Nov 16, 94 00:49:41 am
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> You're overlooking that we pay every cent back to business they spend
> advertising, plus profit.  All costs are passed along to the final
> consumer.  It's the basic flaw in the argument that commercial TV is
> "free."  It's anything but.  

But the cost is only one that those who *chose* to have to pay.  The
notion of communication *should* be shifting toward a new form of
television and, by the definition, advertising.  The price for those
advertising should not exceed that of current rates.  In fact, bussinesses
that I am talking with currently think that passive advertising will
be much more effective than current, one-way, methods.  It is much
simpler for consumers to seek business than the other way around.  The
only advertisers that would lose out would be the ginsu knife folks
and the like. Things that are *far* from necessary.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------~
| Sean Connelly                   "Cyberpunk is a revolution   |
| sconnell@silver.ucs.indiana.edu  that has already become     |
| sconnell@acoma.ucs.indiana.edu   the establishment."         |
| sleeze@well.sf.ca.us              --Someone with a clue      |
---------------------------------------------------------------~~
From rbarry@hopper.itc.virginia.edu  Wed Nov 16 01:28:09 1994
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From: Rey Barry <rbarry@hopper.itc.virginia.edu>
Message-Id: <199411160619.BAA03564@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:45] Re: my question...and more
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 01:19:26 -0500 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199411160908.BAA02437@virtconf.digex.net> from "Sean" at Nov 16, 94 01:10:43 am
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> > advertising, plus profit.  All costs are passed along to the final
> > consumer.  It's the basic flaw in the argument that commercial TV is
> > "free."  It's anything but.  
> 
> But the cost is only one that those who *chose* to have to pay.  The

The only way to avoid paying is to go without.  Go without phone service
because all the LD providers pump their advertising cost on to us.  Go on
foot or by horseback, because the auto makers pass their costs back.  And
so forth for every product we use in life.  Hell, the electric monopoly
is allowed to advertise and charge it off to us here in Virginia.

As I see that, the idea that we have a choice to pay or not evaporates
when it crosses the line from theory to reality.  Virtually everything we
eat and every store we buy it in passes on the advertising cost to the
shopper.  When it unavoidable, where's the choice?

-- 
 
 rbarry@hopper.itc.virginia.edu          Freeware Hall of Fame BBS  
    The only thing Americans       Hayes Optima 288 - 804-293-4710 
   have in common is paranoia.       Free BBS - 1st call downloads  
From sconnell@silver.ucs.indiana.edu  Wed Nov 16 01:48:45 1994
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From: Sean <sconnell@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:46] Re: my question...and more
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 01:40:50 -0500 (EST)
Cc: sconnell@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Sean)
In-Reply-To: <199411160619.BAA03564@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU> from "Rey Barry" at Nov 16, 94 01:28:48 am
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Sorry if I was vague or misleading, but didn't the rest of my
posting address the fact that advertising costs will go down
anyway?  Its pretty basic stuff, really.  Advertising by modern
methods is not an effective way for many producers to reach 
their target audience.  The only folks who benefit from mass
media ads are beer companies, cars and the like.  Most are paying
a premium to reach a large audience which contains relatively 
few consumers for their particulare good.  Without delivering
an entire paper on the topic, let me try to paint a picture for
you.  Are you familiar with the WWW and Mosaic?  Imagine that
your company is selling a niche product.  You set up a web-page--
a relatively inexpensive thing to do in terms of advertising--
and consumers have 24 hour access to your information.  Most of
us are looking for bargains, toys, new things.  We will seek it
out.  Currently, there are folks doing just this. Their traffic
increases exponentially (web pages can count the number of people
who access them).  If you are an established producer, one your
web page is known, new products will not have the lag time in
reaching a mass audience (as with the first days of your page.)
One site, many products.  Just like a shop that people can 
access from around the globe.  Cheap?  Hell yes!  Will this
drive up the cost of goods?  A little basic economic/telecommunications
background is here assumed.  I will support with more if this is
not clear.  Do companies have an interest in seeing us all happy
and net-accessible?  Silly question.  Advertising cost is already
in our products.  This delivery system decreases said costs and
expands one's ability to use cost-effective advertising.  Sorry
if I rambling, but this is my life, so to speak.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------~
| Sean Connelly                   "Cyberpunk is a revolution   |
| sconnell@silver.ucs.indiana.edu  that has already become     |
| sconnell@acoma.ucs.indiana.edu   the establishment."         |
| sleeze@well.sf.ca.us              --Someone with a clue      |
---------------------------------------------------------------~~
From sconnell@silver.ucs.indiana.edu  Wed Nov 16 01:57:23 1994
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From: Sean <sconnell@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:46] Re: my question...and more
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 01:49:28 -0500 (EST)
Cc: sconnell@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Sean)
In-Reply-To: <199411160619.BAA03564@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU> from "Rey Barry" at Nov 16, 94 01:28:48 am
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By the by, I don't know if this is unclear or not, but I am not
suggesting that bussiness carry the entire balance of the net.
Rather, that public access should be guaranteed and that anyone
using the net for profit should have to pay for the right. Is
anyone in disagreement with this basic premise?  
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------~
| Sean Connelly                   "Cyberpunk is a revolution   |
| sconnell@silver.ucs.indiana.edu  that has already become     |
| sconnell@acoma.ucs.indiana.edu   the establishment."         |
| sleeze@well.sf.ca.us              --Someone with a clue      |
---------------------------------------------------------------~~
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From: RUSSELLB@ext23.oes.orst.edu
Message-Id: <2ec9b6b4.ext23@ext23.OES.ORST.EDU>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Date:         15 Nov 94 23:37:22 
Subject:      Re: [AVAIL:20] Re: 
Priority:     normal
X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R4).

> I have a paper I have written recently about the development of
> the Global Network -- looking at its history and development.
>
> I would like to post it to this discussion but it is lengthy
> so want to know if that is ok.
>
I would suggest that you post instructions for obtaining it via ftp
and gopher and an offer to return it by e-mail for those who do
neither.  This way (the Internet way) the recipient decides whether
to receive a lengthy document.

Opinion of Bill Russell




=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bandon Public Library  -- Access to the Virtual Conference
Via: Internet:  russellb@ext23.oes.orst.edu
Long Distance Tolls Paid by the City of Bandon
Internet Access courtesy of Oregon State University
and William P. (Bill) Russell
vox: 503-347-3683   fax:  503-347-6303
snail mail:      P.O.Box 2029
                 Bandon, OR 97411
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

From ext23!RUSSELLB@ext23.oes.orst.edu  Wed Nov 16 03:14:09 1994
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From: RUSSELLB@ext23.oes.orst.edu
Message-Id: <2ec9c7e9.ext23@ext23.OES.ORST.EDU>
To: "Cynthia S. Terwilliger" <twigs@umich.edu>, avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Date:         16 Nov 94 00:50:48 
Subject:      Re: [AVAIL:35] Re: Key Issues of Affordability and Availabi
Priority:     normal
X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R4).

Hi Cynthia,

Here is an echo from the Oregon edge of the States, if not the world.
We have a small rural library here on the south coast too, I'm the
City Council liaison to the Library Board.

> I'l like to hear more from the Oregon edge of the world.  Being from a
> small, rural library in the Upper Penisula of Michigan, with a very small
> tax base...faced with geographical isolation and no clout...how do we get
> our voices heard and assure our partrons equal and universal access to
> these new and wonderful services...we have no local nodes...every hook up
> is a long distance call.  What are you doing over there?
>
The problems sound very familiar.  The short answer is that in the
near term neither we nor you can "assure our patrons equal and
universal access."  That can be our goal for the long run, but we
must also face the short run and work to assure them at least the
crumbs from the table to start with.

There have been some very good posts about recycling computers for
community networks.  DuPriest's post about the BET program is among
the best sounding to me.  In our situation, we do not have many big
industries very close to inherit cast-offs from, so beg wherever it
seems wise.  You don't need a Pentium to access a community BBS, nor
to host one for that matter.  An XT is fine for access and an AT will
host a very adequate board for up to 8 phone lines.

Speaking of a BBS, it is not the  kind of node we would like to have,
it will not assure equal access; but through fidonet it will provide
a first step, e-mail access to the world.  More importantly, it will
provide a "place" where the community can discuss what they need and
how to get it.

The Oregon PUC has a procedure by which a town can call upon the PUC
to find that there is a "community of interest," with a near by
larger town or city.  If found, the telco is required to provide
"Extended Area Service." For a small monthly fee, EAS provides local
calling charges between the two towns.  Bandon has only 3500 phones
in our local calling area; we have a petition out to get EAS to Coos
Bay, 15,000 phones.  More economically viable units are thus created;
another town our size already has EAS to Coos Bay, so over 20,000
phones will be capable of local (read free) phone access to the
future Internet node.

Let me be clear!  I'm not asking for free access to the Internet,
just EQUAL phone charges.

The opinions of Bill Russell

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bandon Public Library  -- Access to the Virtual Conference
Via: Internet:  russellb@ext23.oes.orst.edu
Long Distance Tolls Paid by the City of Bandon
Internet Access courtesy of Oregon State University
and William P. (Bill) Russell
vox: 503-347-3683   fax:  503-347-6303
snail mail:      P.O.Box 2029
                 Bandon, OR 97411
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

From cweiler@ednet1.osl.or.gov  Wed Nov 16 08:26:55 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 05:19:12 -0800
Message-Id: <199411161319.AA03470@ednet1.osl.or.gov>
From: cweiler@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Conrad Weiler)
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: avail
Reply-To: cweiler@ednet1.osl.or.gov



(This is a statement concerning a recent meeting in Oregon concerning statewide electronic networks. I think it mirrors some aspects of the larger national problem.)
 
I attended the Telecom 101 Net I broadcast (Nov. 1) at Newport, Oregon. Net I allows one-way TV, two-way audio. The state-wide telecast focused on electronic communications in OregonUs future and many cities were represented (Astoria, Burns, Deadwood, 
Eugene, Newport, etc.).
 
Representatives from Cable TV, Telephone, Oregon Schools, OregonUs regulatory agencies, and others presented their ideas about OregonUs telecommunications future.
Questions such as who would pay or who would have access were mentioned several times. Particularly stressed was the need for inclusion of the rural Oregon areas in the telecommunications mix.

One of the more interesting questions concerned use of Internet and whether classes could/would be offered to help new people use the system. John Sechrest, from OSU outreach program, responded that such classes already existed (and perhaps more 
would be forthcoming). I question this approach. It plays into the *school* game of *teach-me*. IUm not sure how successfully one can be *taught* to use the Internet. The Internet is more of an *immersion* process - painful at first - better as you become
more accustomed to its vagaries. My guess is that regardless of how many *classes* or *books* that one studies about the Internet - the best *learning* situation is to DO IT!
Another thought - rather then saying "how can I learn to use the Internet?", the better
approach might be "what do you want to use the Internet for?" The latter question might better focus a person's desire to learn. Perhaps when MOSAIC (or its later GUI incantations) becomes widely available, the graphical interface with Internet 
connections will make the learning curve easier for more people.
 
Also, we may be putting the cart before the horse again. Setting hardware in position (state-wide telecommunications, national information highway) before deciding
software issues (what do we want to provide over the telecommunications system?). Right now you hear mostly glowing generalities.

More disturbing at the Telecom 101 Oregon meeting was one of the site handouts. The single page paper, titled *Oregon Benchmarks*, gave figures from a 1993 report to the Oregon Legislature. Item 58. reports on the past and future of percentage of Oregon 
households with personal computers at home who send and receive data and information over telecommunications lines. An explanation on this handout stated:
*This measures the number of households with computers and modems (which 
connect a computer to the phone system). Rationale: As the costs of manipulating and transmitting data declines, more and more households will benefit from access to data bases, electronic mail and other electronic services. The more people who connect
into these services, the more data bases and opportunities for communications will emerge. A telecommunications task force recently concluded that accelerating this process will increase productivity and benefit Oregonians.
Data source: Oregon Values Study conducted for the Oregon Business Council. 


The following years were listed (for households connected):
 
1992 - 10 per cent
 
1995 - 20 per cent
 
2000 - 50 per cent
 
2010 - 75 per cent

These percentage changes (forecasts) probably look good until you think about the people involved. In the year 2010 there will be over 4 million Oregonians. Yet the forecast predicts 25 per cent of them will *not* be connected households. That means 
that over 1 million people will be relegated to second class *information poor* status. 
Like figures probably exist for the other 49 states.
 
One suggestion often expressed is to make sure that all people have access to the
information superhighway. What about having terminals provided in schools, public libraries, etc.? I prefer the idea of being able to "fiddle" at home. That's another reason 
why having access at schools and libraries to computers/Internet/etc. may not be the best answer. I'm pessimistic enough to think we will always have an information underclass. 
CW

--
Conrad Weiler, Tidewater, Oregon
cweiler@ednet1.osl.or.gov
"If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."
                                              ---Bertrand Russell---
From cweiler@ednet1.osl.or.gov  Wed Nov 16 08:51:01 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 05:43:17 -0800
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From: cweiler@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Conrad Weiler)
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:28] Re: Key Issues of Affordability and Availability
Reply-To: cweiler@ednet1.osl.or.gov



There already is international use of Internet facilities. Those
who choose to participate can use contacts worldwide.

More recently there has been growing discussion of GII (global
information infrastructure) rather then only NII (national
concerns for information). We are living in a smaller global
village every day.

--
Conrad Weiler, Tidewater, Oregon
cweiler@ednet1.osl.or.gov
"If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."
                                              ---Bertrand Russell---
From cweiler@ednet1.osl.or.gov  Wed Nov 16 09:04:54 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 05:57:10 -0800
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From: cweiler@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Conrad Weiler)
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:35] Re: Key Issues of Affordability and Availability
Reply-To: cweiler@ednet1.osl.or.gov



I am rather new to the Oregon scene but here is what I have found
so far.

The state has many rural and somewhat isolated areas. There are a 
few large cities (Portland, Eugene-Springfield) but there are many
rural counties. To help with information transfer Net I, Net II,
and Net III sites are in place. 

Net I allows 1-way TV, 2-way audio transmissions. I believe there
are about 35 statewide sites operating. 

Net II allows 2-way TV/audio transmission.

Net III includes Ed Net COMPASS which gives people around the
state access to each other and the Internet. Some folks pay
long distance charges - some are using local lines. It just depends
where you live.

There are regional conferences scheduled in early December and 
a statewide conference set for January, 1995 to discuss directions
to go with telecommunications in Oregon.

Conrad

--
Conrad Weiler, Tidewater, Oregon
cweiler@ednet1.osl.or.gov
"If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."
                                              ---Bertrand Russell---
From don@dcez.com  Wed Nov 16 09:06:12 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 08:53:49 -500 (EST)
From: Don Evans <don@dcez.com>
Subject: Testing.
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
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Testing
don@dcez.com

From don@dcez.com  Wed Nov 16 09:33:40 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 09:21:12 -500 (EST)
From: Don Evans <don@dcez.com>
Subject: Thanks Al....
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
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Has anyone stopped to think just how much we owe to Al Gore and the
current administration.

In 1989, then Senator Gore introduced NREN Legislation, setting the stage
for the environment in which we now find ourselves.


Donald F. Evans
Washington, DC
don@dcez.com

The views expressed are my own, and in no way should be considered as the 
views of the National Endowment for the Arts.


From woody@cni.org  Wed Nov 16 09:37:14 1994
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From: Forest W Horton <woody@cni.org>
Message-Id: <9411161428.AA00455@a.cni.org>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:52] Re: GII vs. NII
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 09:28:51 -0500 (EST)
Cc: lis-fid@a
In-Reply-To: <199411161343.AA07474@ednet1.osl.or.gov> from "Conrad Weiler" at Nov 16, 94 08:52:12 am
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> 
> 
> 
> There already is international use of Internet facilities. Those
> who choose to participate can use contacts worldwide.
> 
> More recently there has been growing discussion of GII (global
> information infrastructure) rather then only NII (national
> concerns for information). We are living in a smaller global
> village every day.
> 
> --
> Conrad Weiler, Tidewater, Oregon
> cweiler@ednet1.osl.or.gov
> "If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."
>                                               ---Bertrand Russell---
> 
Those conference participants interested in tracking the Global Information
Infrastructures (GII) aspects of developments may be interested in knowing
that the International Federation for Information and Documentation (FID)
has set up a Task Force under the co-chairmanship of Dean Toni Carbo Bearman
of the Graduate School of Library and Information Science at the University
of Pittsburgh (and who serves on the Vice President's NIIAC Advisory Committee)
can contact me for further information re FID's activities in this area.

Woody Horton, Washington, D.C.
woody@cni.org
From epin@access.digex.net  Wed Nov 16 09:57:33 1994
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From: James McDonough <epin@access.digex.net>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:42] Re: my question
In-Reply-To: <199411160841.AAA27213@virtconf.digex.net>
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I want to add my voice to those favoring greater, not less, government 
intervention in the development of the NII (or GII) to protect the 
interest of the people against the narrow sectarian interests of large 
telecommunications industries. Why the federal government gave up it part 
ownership in the Internet backbone is a mystery to me. An active, 
interventionist government is essential to assure universal access at 
affordable prices from people living in heart of the cities or in the 
Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

James McDonough
Bethesda, MD
From redefus@winslo.ohio.gov  Wed Nov 16 10:02:43 1994
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From: Redefining Univ Service REDEFUS Open access <redefus@winslo.ohio.gov>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:38] Re: NTIA Virtual Conference KeyNote Address
To: Henry Huang <hwh6k@fulton.seas.virginia.edu>
cc: Multiple recipients of list <avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov>
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my question deals with actual competition in the local loop. what do you 
or does anybody have knowledge of actual competition not just petitioning to 
offer the service 
From FBSS@cbs.nl  Wed Nov 16 10:53:16 1994
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Comment:      ""  <E3V-1/FBSS>
Date:         16 Nov 1994 16:35:56 MET
Subject:      Availability of statistics
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 After attending the Virtual Conference for two days now, I would like to 
 give my first attribution to the discussion.
 Since I work for the governement of The Netherlands, at the Central 
 Bureau of Statistics, which is part of the Department of Economic 
 Affairs, the question of availability of statistical figures intrigues 
 me. As a result of safety-precautions there is no on-line connection 
 possible with our network. There should, however, be a source for the 
 public to get our data from, we get paid by community-money so the 
 community should benefit the results of our efforts.
 I am wondering how these matters are regulated in the other countries 
 who participate in the Virtual Conference
 
 
                                         With kind greetings,
 
                                         Frank D.Bastiaans,
                                         Statistical Analyser,
                                         Division Trade, Service and 
                                         Transport,
                                         Sector Trade and Transport,
                                         Taskforce Wholesale-trade and
                                         Transport
                                         E-mail: FBSS@CBS.NL
From martin@umbsky.cc.umb.edu  Wed Nov 16 11:52:51 1994
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From: "ANTHONY M. MARTIN" <martin@umbsky.cc.umb.edu>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
CC: martin@umbsky.cc.umb.edu
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unsubscribe Anthony Martin

From schaefer@access.digex.net  Wed Nov 16 11:58:59 1994
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From: Tom Schaefer <schaefer@access.digex.net>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:60] 
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You need to send this command to the list server at:

	listserv@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov

The address you sent to is for posting messages...





On Wed, 16 Nov 1994, ANTHONY M. MARTIN wrote:

> unsubscribe Anthony Martin
> 
> 
From LucyCo@aol.com  Wed Nov 16 12:42:39 1994
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From: LucyCo@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 12:34:19 -0500
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To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Library e-mail

In Avail #40 Chris Silker asked about libraries providing free e-mail/net
access.  Seattle Public Library provides limited net access on its own --
but, more significantly, said "yes" to a collaborative project with the
 local Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility group.  The
CPSR/Seattle Community Network project enables the whole populace to have
free internet e-mail, if desired --  through dial-in, or at terminals at any
of the 22 main and branch libraries, or even from a telnet jump from
far-flung libraries in the greater King County system.  Registered users (you
only have to sign up with your real name -- there are no other registration
requirements) have free e-mail accounts and can post to local network forums.
Lucy Copass, Seattle League of Women Voters Computer Communications Chair
(lucyco@scn.org)
From msyssft!msyssft!microsys!susang@uu6.psi.com  Wed Nov 16 13:32:25 1994
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        maroon.tc.umn.edu!silke001@uu6.psi.com ( "Chris Silker"  )
Message-Id: E0E6C92E01B361E1
In-Reply-To: EBCCC92E81B361E1
Importance: Normal
Encoding: 40 TEXT

1. Thank you for the tip on seeing your own postings.
2. No, I haven't seen anything AT ALL from the PRIVACY discussion (not even 
a message from the LISTSERV)
3. I agree (and yes, we both may be being simplistic, but that doesn't make 
it a bad idea) -- the public library is definitely a good place to start for 
public access. It isn't the only solution, but there is rarely just one good 
answer to a complex problem. Rather multiple good answers. Where it starts 
to get messy is (again) trying to figure out how to fund and manage 
public/universal access in whatever form. 

**************************************************
Susan J. Getgood
Manager, Marketing & Communications
Microsystems Software Inc.
600 Worcester Rd., Framingham, MA 01701
tel: 508/ 879-9000 or 800/489-2001; fax: 508/ 626-8515
e-mail: susang@microsys.com
-------------
Original Text
>From silke001 @ UUCP ( "Chris Silker"  ) { uupsi6!maroon.tc.umn.edu!silke001 
}, on 11/15/94 10:40 PM:
You can't read your own posts unless you send a command to the listserv to 
do so (assuming that this list is set up to do such things at all).  If 
it can, you would send a message to "listserv@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov" 
(without the quotes) - body of the message reads "set avail repro".  
Nothing goes in the subject line.

Is anyone signed onto the Privacy conferences, and if so, have you received 
anything from it yet?

Forgive me if this is a simplistic question, but what are the possibilities 
of providing e-mail accounts to the interested who do not have the 
opportunity for access elsewhere (such as people who don't have phone 
service or can't spring for a private carrier) through the public library 
system?  I have seen messages that indicate they are being sent from public 
libraries.  Is this widespread?  My branch librarian was just exclaiming 
that they recently got on the Net.

C. Silker


From BMSLIB@MITVMA.MIT.EDU  Wed Nov 16 13:39:27 1994
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Date:         Wed, 16 Nov 94 13:11:03 EST
From: "W. Curtiss Priest" <BMSLIB@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      Who does this Administration Really Listen To?
To: NTIA discussion on Universal Service
 <REDEFUS@VIRTCONF.NTIA.DOC.GOV>,
        NTIA Forum on Availability and Cost <AVAIL@VIRTCONF.NTIA.DOC.GOV>,
        NTIA discussion on Intellectual Property
 <INTELLEC@VIRTCONF.NTIA.DOC.GOV>,
        Telecommunications Policy Roundtable - NE <TPR-NE@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>

A disturbing article appeared in the San Jose Mercury News on
October 20, 1994.  It describes the opinions of the National Information
Infrastructure Advisory Council.

This council was appointed by President Clinton early this year
and charged with providing the administration with advice about
how to deal with the growing information highway!

The council is co-chaired by Silicon Graphics chief executive
Edward R. McCracken and Delano E. Lewis, president of National
Public Radio.

The statements regarding accessibility and universal service were
particularly disturbing -- the group doesn't see homes involved
at all, but a reliance on libraries, schools and community places
to let most Americans gain access to the highway on into the next
century.

"Libraries, schools and community centers are the most likely places that
poor and rural Americans will have to go to tap into the much-vaunted
information highway, at least until the next century, according to draft
documents being discussed by a presidential advisory council."

"Left unanswered, however, is the question of who will pay for the
equipment, wiring and service to those instutitions in an era
when budget cuts and tax revolts have closed or severely restricted
hourss at local libraries and gutted school district finances."

"'We're seeing libraries may be that community access point, that you
don't have to have the hardware in your home,' said Delano E. Lewis,
co-chairman of the [council]."

"The principle of 'universal access' was just one of several debated
Wednesday in Mountain View at a public meeting held by the 37-member
group.  The council was appointed by President Clinton early this
year and charged with providing the administration with advice on how
to deal with the growing information highway."

"During its all-day meeting in Silicon Valley, the council debated
the work of three sub-committees, dubbed mega-projects, set up to
examine some crucial areas of revamping the country's
telecommunications system."

Regarding intellectual property, "Information providers, such as newspapers
and movie producers, are concerned that the computer-based information highway
could be used to replicate their copyrighted stories or films, but
without them being paid."

"Educators, librarians and researchers worry that technical mechanisms
employed to prevent such copying could eliminate their existing rights
to use some of the material in nonprofit ways.  How to make sure
that everyone in the country can use the information highway from the
start, before it becomes as cheap and ubiquitous as telephone service
or broadcast television.

McCracken appears to have it figured out.  "McCracken said it would
take until around 2005 before most homes have their connections
to the information highway.  Until then, those who can't afford it
will have to rely on sites such as libraries or schools to get access."

MCCracken did leave one question open -- "But, he said, 'that brings up the
real issue of funding, how much is from the private sector' and how much
will come from the government -- something the council did not address
at this meeting.

Perhaps our host, David Barram of DOC, could tell the members of
these lists what role our discussions here have in relation to the
Clinton Council and how we can be assured that people such as
McCracken will not dominate the Whitehouse's thinking about these
matters?

_______________________________________________________________________________
|               W. Curtiss Priest, Ph.D.             *********************** |
|      Center for Information, Technology, & Society *  Improving humanity * |
|                                                    *  through technology * |
|                  466 Pleasant Street               *********************** |
|                Melrose, MA  02176-4522                                     |
|                  Voice: 617-662-4044     Gopher to our publications:       |
|                   Fax: 617-662-6882      GOPHER.STD.COM (under nonprofits) |
_____________________________________________________________________________|
From cyberoid@u.washington.edu  Wed Nov 16 13:45:52 1994
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	Wed, 16 Nov 94 10:37:58 -0800
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 94 10:37:58 -0800
From: Robert Jacobson <cyberoid@u.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <9411161837.AA10017@stein3.u.washington.edu>
X-Sender: cyberoid@stein3.u.washington.edu
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:55] Thanks Al....

Donald Evans of Washington, DC, writes:

>Has anyone stopped to think just how much we owe to Al Gore and 
>the current administration?
> 
>In 1989, then Senator Gore introduced NREN Legislation, setting 
>the stage for the environment in which we now find ourselves.

Apparently  not many  people  have  thought about it, Donald.  I don't
remember once the  NREN legislation, the NII,  or  anything associated
with the  "Information Superhighway"  being  mentioned  in the  recent
political  debate, resulting in the Republican  romp  in Congress.  In
fact, contributions from firms benefiting from  NII-associated policy,
like the telephone companies and cable  television firms, overwhelming
favored  Republican over Democratic congressional  candidates.  As for
the "common person," the  NII proved  less important than gun control,
abortion,   civil  rights,  tax  policy,  or  plain  ornariness  as  a
determinant of how he or she voted.

We would all do well to be less "info-centric"  and realize that while
we  may  propose  good  policies  that  would  be  very  effective  if
implemented, if these policies don't matter to the public, there won't
be the necessary initiative  to break the coming  Capital legislative-
executive branch logjam.   Outreach has to go  beyond the Internet  to
reach the vast majority of the public.  But how?  Via TV, with its own
biases?   Cable  TV  (the  same)?    Newspapers  (the  same)?   Online
information services (the same)?   The  Info Superhighway as a concept
contains within it this primary contradiction: that to realize the ISH
in democratic form requires popular support that may not be attainable
using  the  existing,  self-interested  communication media and  their
private owners.

Bob Jacobson
From cyberoid@u.washington.edu  Wed Nov 16 14:12:07 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 94 11:04:13 -0800
From: Robert Jacobson <cyberoid@u.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <9411161904.AA12164@stein3.u.washington.edu>
X-Sender: cyberoid@stein3.u.washington.edu
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:64] Who does this Administration Really Listen To?

W. Curtiss Priest writes, regarding the Infrastructure Advisory
Council:

Perhaps our host, David Barram of DOC, could tell the members of
these lists what role our discussions here have in relation to the
Clinton Council and how we can be assured that people such as
McCracken will not dominate the Whitehouse's thinking about these
matters?

Ironically, McCracken's firm, Silicon Graphics, is spending a bundle
to create technology for bringing interactive TV to the home.  If
he says these services are coming to the home in 2005, he could be
right -- or bluffing.  Who can tell?

Bob Jacobson
From paul.kaski@camp.org  Wed Nov 16 14:21:12 1994
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From: "CAMP: Kaski, Paul E." <paul.kaski@camp.org>
To: avail <avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov>
Subject: RE: [AVAIL:63]
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 94 14:01:00 EST
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Encoding: 8 TEXT
X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0


I subscribed to PRIVACY on Monday, and I have been getting ms's.  I don't 
know if I'm missing any, but the numbers are consecutive.

Paul E. Kaski
Cleveland ECRC
paul.kaski@camp.org
 ----------
From BMSLIB@MITVMA.MIT.EDU  Wed Nov 16 15:07:32 1994
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Date:         Wed, 16 Nov 94 14:36:01 EST
From: "W. Curtiss Priest" <BMSLIB@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: [AVAIL:65] Re: Thanks Al....
To: NTIA Forum on Availability and Cost <avail@VIRTCONF.NTIA.DOC.GOV>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Wed, 16 Nov 1994 13:46:39 -0800 from
 <cyberoid@u.washington.edu>

I have to agree with Robert Jacobson.

I thought -- wow, here Al Gore is in 'power' and all those wonderful
bills on Software Clearinghouses and the NREN and the possibilities
for true public information systems.

Then I watched him at the second NII gathering at UCLA with Disney and
all the other information industry mights and I realized that he
may believe, after all, the rhetoric of the Republicans -- that
the market place will solve all the problems -- even education,
personal health, and governance.

Al where are you now that we really need you?

_______________________________________________________________________________
|               W. Curtiss Priest, Ph.D.             *********************** |
|      Center for Information, Technology, & Society *  Improving humanity * |
|                                                    *  through technology * |
|                  466 Pleasant Street               *********************** |
|                Melrose, MA  02176-4522                                     |
|                  Voice: 617-662-4044     Gopher to our publications:       |
|                   Fax: 617-662-6882      GOPHER.STD.COM (under nonprofits) |
_____________________________________________________________________________|
From MCDANIEL@wvuadmin3.csc.wvu.edu  Wed Nov 16 15:54:14 1994
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From: "Lew McDaniel" <MCDANIEL@wvuadmin3.csc.wvu.edu>
Organization:  WVU Computing Services
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Date:          Wed, 16 Nov 1994 14:41:01 EST
Subject:       Re: [AVAIL:64] Who does this Administration Really Listen To?
Priority: normal
X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.20)
Message-Id: <3D422014D90@wvuadmin3.csc.wvu.edu>

> "Libraries, schools and community centers are the most likely places that
> poor and rural Americans will have to go to tap into the much-vaunted
> information highway, at least until the next century, according to draft
> documents being discussed by a presidential advisory council."
 
Pehaps this council will go along with the notion that no 
home receives information highway access until every 
library, every public access point, all K-12, every 
vocational school, and all higher education is installed and active.  
Yeah, right.   

I find the council's notion ironic, since the information
age has the potential to empower regardless of  location
or economic class.  No one would argue that education 
should be afforded to each of us, but the council would 
drastically restrict valuable tools which help us learn.  

Some suggest the impending creation of 
information haves and have nots.  I see them already 
created in the contrast in educational and technological 
opportunities between today's poor and rich 
areas.   My state is poor, rural and our tax base 
is diminishing.  I see the Information Age as a way to 
lessen crushing ignorance and perhaps provide jobs that 
ease poverty.   The presidential council as represented in 
the quote above from the San Jose newspaper would 
exacerbate, rather than ameliorate the problem.

   

====================
L. W. McDaniel
Assistant Director
Computing Services
West Virginia University
PO Box 6504
Morgantown, WV 26506-6504
Voice: 304-293-3011 x2125
FAX: 304-293-6726

From mathews@gold.chem.hawaii.edu  Wed Nov 16 16:15:52 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 10:28:22 -1000 (HST)
From: R U Licensed To Navigate in Cyberspace? <mathews@gold.chem.hawaii.edu>
Subject: An Attempt At Equity..  Was Re: [INTELLEC:54] Who does this Administration Really Listen To?
To: Donald Lewine <dlewine@cheshirecat.webo.dg.com>
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov>
In-Reply-To: <9411161850.AA10162@cheshirecat.webo.dg.com>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.07.9411161021.A25417-c100000@gold.chem.hawaii.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII



On Wed, 16 Nov 1994, Donald Lewine wrote:

> > Perhaps our host, David Barram of DOC, could tell the members of
> > these lists what role our discussions here have in relation to the
> > Clinton Council and how we can be assured that people such as
> > McCracken will not dominate the Whitehouse's thinking about these
> > matters?
> 
> Given the new political realities of Washington.  I think the  
> chances for any additional funding for universal access to 
> the NII are very slim indeed.
>
>			[ snip... snip...  ] 
> 
> As one administration official said to me yesterday, "To get things
> done around here, the last thing you want is Clinton's endorsement."
>  
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> Donald A. Lewine                (508) 898-6488 Voice 
> Data General Corporation        (508) 366-0750 FAX
> 4400 Computer Drive. MS D112A
> Westboro, MA 01580  U.S.A.
> Internet: Don_Lewine@dg.com -or-
>           dlewine@cheshirecat.webo.dg.com
> 
> All opinions in this message are logical, well reasoned and my own.



Ladies and Gentlemen:

       I am a LATE arrival to the List, and have been watching this thread
develop.  I am taking the liberty to post this message from the
"Intellectual Property" list to the "Universal Access and Availability"
list, as it appears to me that the subject is best suited for this area.

       Forgive me for this move..

       I am affiliated with a Non-Profit Organization that is very much
involved with evolving issues surrounding Network presence and equity
issues.  And inlight of the APEC Summit, currently underway, I thought
it be best to post a voice from the midst of the Pacific;  still American.. :>

       With reagrd to Equity;  or atleast an attempt toward this, I am
forced to look upon the strides made in the area of PUBLIC consciousness on
the NII/GII issue since the arrival of the Clinton Administration.

       Afterall, it was NOT asthough the technology was NOT available
prior..  I should know...  I have been a proud NetCitizen since the days
of ARPANET at 300 Baud....  

       It is my opinion that the LEVEL of consciousness in the minds of
the American Public, needs to increase.   And all must set aside PARTISAN
politics and LITERALLY ADOPT the NII/GII focus to heart of a LOT remain,
yet to be clarified in the minds of the public as to the "WHAT, WHY, HOW
and WHEN?"

       Someone eloquently noted here that this issue should be an area of
focus at a level akin to International Humanitarian aid etc.  My personal
fear is that with the change(s) in administration, that this area MIGHT be
slated and not given the attention that it deserves.

       Furthermore, it is my belief that ATLEAST in the United States that
if proper actions are NOT taken, we might very well witness the creation
of a third world population -- in a first world nation, with respect to
technology and the ability to react meaningfully with the same.


All the best,
Robert Mathews.
---------------
---
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chairman - Steering Committee               Tel: + 808.921.2097
The Pacific Network Consortium Ltd.         Fax: + 808.921.2097
Suites 814 & 815                            Tel: + 808.533.3969
415 Nahua Street                            Fax: + 808.533.3969 (RB)
Honolulu, Hawaii  96815 - 2949           E.mail: mathews@gold.chem.hawaii.edu
United States of America.                E.mail: RMATHEWS@TECHNOLOGY.TAMU.EDU
------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From rkm2@columbia.edu  Wed Nov 16 17:06:13 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 16:57:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Redmond Kathleen Molz <rkm2@columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:12] Re: 
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411142019.A2571-0100000@sils.umich.edu>
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>subscribe wvia

On Tue, 15 Nov 1994, Cynthia S. Terwilliger wrote:

> 
> 
> On Mon, 14 Nov 1994, WVIA Virtual Conference Account wrote:
> 
> > subscribe wvia
> > 
> 
From kenneth.l.alford@pentagon-1dms2.army.mil  Wed Nov 16 17:06:43 1994
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Date: 16 Nov 94 16:57:22-0500
P1-Message-Id: US* *GOV+DMS+MILNET;941116215722
P1-Recipient: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
From: "Alford, Kenneth L." <kenneth.l.alford@pentagon-1dms2.army.mil>
To: "NTIA_Avail" <avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov>
Subject: Request for GII Information 
Message-Id: <"00037AF0.MAI"*kenneth.l.alford@pentagon-1dms2.army.mil>


I'm researching national and international efforts to
create information superhighways in countries other than
the United States (the Global Information Infrastructure,
as it's often called), and I would appreciate receiving
information or information sources about the Global
Information Infrastructure.

I'm a student at the U.S. Army's Command and General Staff
College (located at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas) and am doing
an independent research project on this topic.


Thank you for any information you can provide,

   - Major Ken Alford

     eMail: KENNETH.L.ALFORD@PENTAGON-1DMS2.ARMY.MIL

From sbrenner@efn.org  Wed Nov 16 17:11:40 1994
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To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov,
        Multiple recipients of list <avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov>
From: sbrenner@efn.org (Stephen A. Brenner)
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:48] Re: my question...and more
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

Sounds like almost everyone will be a winner. The public gets their cheap 
access and optional exposure to ads, businesses get cost-effective 
advertizing. The people who will be complaining the most would have to be 
the tv networks who over time will be losing billions of dollars in ad revenue.

>From a political perspective, when you think about how important election 
campaign ads on television have become and how expensive they are, it's 
intriguing to think that once the bandwidth is in place in the NII, 
effective new ways of reaching out to the electorate will be available to 
more than those with major capital. This is a revolutionary concept.

Steve
At 01:58 AM 11/16/94 -0800, Sean wrote:
>By the by, I don't know if this is unclear or not, but I am not
>suggesting that bussiness carry the entire balance of the net.
>Rather, that public access should be guaranteed and that anyone
>using the net for profit should have to pay for the right. Is
>anyone in disagreement with this basic premise?  
>-- 
>---------------------------------------------------------------~
>| Sean Connelly                   "Cyberpunk is a revolution   |
>| sconnell@silver.ucs.indiana.edu  that has already become     |
>| sconnell@acoma.ucs.indiana.edu   the establishment."         |
>| sleeze@well.sf.ca.us              --Someone with a clue      |
>---------------------------------------------------------------~~
>
>
---------------------\\\\\\\\\\//////////-------------------
 Stephen A. Brenner - Visions In America - sbrenner@efn.org 
---------------------//////////\\\\\\\\\\-------------------

From ronda@panix.com  Wed Nov 16 17:11:47 1994
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From: Ronda Hauben <ronda@panix.com>
Message-Id: <199411162203.AA05044@panix2.panix.com>
Subject: Re: Paper on History and Impact of the Global Network
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 17:03:54 -0500 (EST)
Cc: russellb@ext23.oes.orst.edu
In-Reply-To: <2ec9b6b4.ext23@ext23.OES.ORST.EDU> from "RUSSELLB@ext23.oes.orst.edu" at Nov 16, 94 03:15:15 am
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> 
> > I have a paper I have written recently about the development of
> > the Global Network -- looking at its history and development.
> >
> > I would like to post it to this discussion but it is lengthy
> > so want to know if that is ok.
> >
> I would suggest that you post instructions for obtaining it via ftp
> and gopher and an offer to return it by e-mail for those who do
> neither.  This way (the Internet way) the recipient decides whether
> to receive a lengthy document.
> 
> Opinion of Bill Russell
> 
> 
Unfortunately the most recent version ofthe paper isn't available
via ftp or gopher.

If people are interested you can send me email at
rh120@columbia.edu

and ask me to send a copy and I will send it email - if it 
seems at some point like it is worth posting it in two
or three parts to the list, I would be willing to do so.

Ronda
ronda@panix.com
or
rh120@columbia.edu

---
see my .plan at rh120@columbia.edu for www location of "The Netizens
and the Wonderful World of the Web: On the History and Impact of 
the Global Computer Network" and for an outline of the paper I
am working on about early work on time sharing and the vision of an
intellectual public utility and its implications toward future policy
on the Global Computer Network.
From miwipper@mailbox.syr.edu  Wed Nov 16 18:11:43 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 18:05:37 -0500 (EST)
From: "Margaret I. Wipper" <miwipper@mailbox.syr.edu>
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unsubscribe availability and affordability Margaret Wipper
From mathews@gold.chem.hawaii.edu  Wed Nov 16 19:21:59 1994
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From: R U Licensed To Navigate in Cyberspace? <mathews@gold.chem.hawaii.edu>
Subject: The Super-Highway: Where to?
To: Multiple recipients of list <avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov>
Cc: "W. Curtiss Priest" <BMSLIB@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <199411162139.NAA07864@virtconf.digex.net>
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On Wed, 16 Nov 1994, W. Curtiss Priest wrote Re: Who does this 
Administration Really Listen To? :


> A disturbing article appeared in the San Jose Mercury News on
> October 20, 1994.  It describes the opinions of the National Information
> Infrastructure Advisory Council.
>
>			[ Snip.. Snip.. ]
> 
> The council is co-chaired by Silicon Graphics chief executive
> Edward R. McCracken and Delano E. Lewis, president of National
> Public Radio.



Dr. Priest and fellow virtual conference participants:

    Perhaps, this specific contribution and my decision to address Dr.
Priest's writing in the manner and context as I have chosen, MIGHT NOT serve
this issue the justice it deserves.   However, I shall attempt to render
some thoughts -- that might be benefical to our gathering.. 


> The statements regarding accessibility and universal service were
> particularly disturbing -- the group doesn't see homes involved
> at all, but a reliance on libraries, schools and community places
> to let most Americans gain access to the highway on into the next
> century.

    I am NOT certain that we have sufficiently explored the involvement of
REMOTE access (home based), as much as we have: the areas of Library and
Public Schools based access to Global networks and resources.  Hence, my
hypothesis of a larger emphasis on PUBLIC access through libraries and
public schools.

    Perhaps the emphasis on access through libraries are perpetuated by
the rationale that libraries are an environment for discovery and learning. 
And thus the focus on access through schools also..

    However, I am of the opinion that Tools and a certain Philosophy MUST
exist to facilitate private (at home) introspection, foster the process of
discovery and validation associated with, and regarding, these technologies
for one's own use.  

    For populations to embrace such technologies, atleast in a meaningful
sense;  the introductory process and the subsequent immersion of populations,
should begin at home through such processes as interacting with community
computing instruments.

 
>			[ Snip.. Snip.. ]
> 
> MCCracken did leave one question open -- "But, he said, 'that brings up the
> real issue of funding, how much is from the private sector' and how much
> will come from the government -- something the council did not address
> at this meeting.


    I am of the opinion that continued Federal funding is necessary
to stimulate the evolution and maturity of private sector involvement in
this area.   Perhaps it should be suggested that a certain portion of
budgets of such agencies as ARPA and DARPA together with the TRP - Technology
Re-investment Project, allocate a set sum each year for the building of
community, state and regional infrastructures with a Dual use purpose. 
This, to BOLSTER and enhance funding opportunities already available.

    ARPA and DARPA presently does provide certain funds INDIRECTLY toward
this purpose..   I am suggesting.. a more DIRECT and COMITTED involvement
to the strengthening a national position in this matter.

>_______________________________________________________________________________
>|               W. Curtiss Priest, Ph.D.             *********************** |
>|      Center for Information, Technology, & Society *  Improving humanity * |
>|                                                    *  through technology * |
>|                  466 Pleasant Street               *********************** |
>|                Melrose, MA  02176-4522                                     |
>|                  Voice: 617-662-4044     Gopher to our publications:       |
>|                   Fax: 617-662-6882      GOPHER.STD.COM (under nonprofits) |
>_____________________________________________________________________________|


All the best,
Robert Mathews.
---------------
---
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chairman - Steering Committee               Tel: + 808.921.2097
The Pacific Network Consortium Ltd.         Fax: + 808.921.2097
Suites 814 & 815                            Tel: + 808.533.3969
415 Nahua Street                            Fax: + 808.533.3969 (RB)
Honolulu, Hawaii  96815 - 2949           E.mail: mathews@gold.chem.hawaii.edu
United States of America.                E.mail: RMATHEWS@TECHNOLOGY.TAMU.EDU
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From webdog@mercury.sfsu.edu  Wed Nov 16 19:40:05 1994
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..
SUBSCRIBE AVAIL JEFF SCHWARTZ

---
Jeff Schwartz
San Francisco State University
Department of Instructional Technologies
webdog@sfsu.edu   http://edu-52.sfsu.edu


From "SFPL::NTIA_PUB"@DRANET.DRA.COM  Wed Nov 16 19:53:05 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 18:43:35 -0600 (CST)
From: San Francisco Public Libraray <"SFPL::NTIA_PUB"@DRANET.DRA.COM>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
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Subject: NTIA Public Comment

i am sitting in the corner of the card catalogue room at the san
francisco main library, blasted with heat from the oft-unused ven-
tilator, doing what i hope i will be able to do for the rest of my
years:  use computers freely.  internet, on-line discourse, rather,
is invaluable; the role of the computer-friendly mind is becoming
ever greater and the need to communicate within this medium needs
to remain open to all.  if not, we will fall into the abyss of
the isolated world so heralded by the fearful critics of the first
personal computers.  we could become isolated humans in a cubicle
existing only through our computer, it is true, but only if we 
choose this.  i would choose otherwise.  keep computers part of
the schools and libraries, and definately make internet free
to any who wish to use it.  otherwise we are doomed.
From: 
From bsummers@vt.edu  Wed Nov 16 19:59:39 1994
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To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
From: bsummers@vt.edu (Bob Summers)
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:76] The Super-Highway: Where to?
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

>> MCCracken did leave one question open -- "But, he said, 'that brings up the
>> real issue of funding, how much is from the private sector' and how much
>> will come from the government -- something the council did not address
>> at this meeting.
>
>    I am of the opinion that continued Federal funding is necessary
>to stimulate the evolution and maturity of private sector involvement in
>this area.   Perhaps it should be suggested that a certain portion of
>budgets of such agencies as ARPA and DARPA together with the TRP - Technology
>Re-investment Project, allocate a set sum each year for the building of
>community, state and regional infrastructures with a Dual use purpose. 
>This, to BOLSTER and enhance funding opportunities already available.
I feel that it is the responsibility of Local government, educational 
institutions and the private sector to work together to create the required 
networks for private (home) and public use.  The network that I am on is the 
Blacksburg Electronic Village, which is a joint venture between Virginia 
Tech, Bell Atlantic and the town of Blacksburg.  There are certainly some 
Federal funds invested in this project that have made it possible.  25% of 
the residents of Blacksburg are hooked into the net.  I am connected VIA a 
1MB/sec line which is in my apartment.  All complexes that have been built 
in the last 3 years have had these connections installed.

Bob Summers
Senior Computer Engineer
Virginia Tech
bsummers@vt.edu

From msalo@garnet.acns.fsu.edu  Wed Nov 16 23:04:04 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 22:27:17 +22311151 (EST)
From: Marty Salo <msalo@garnet.acns.fsu.edu>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:79] AVAIL digest 9
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Cc: Marty Salo <msalo@garnet.acns.fsu.edu>
In-Reply-To: <199411170514.VAA15295@virtconf.digex.net>
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Bob Summers wrote:

> The network that I am on is the 
> Blacksburg Electronic Village, which is a joint venture between Virginia 
> Tech, Bell Atlantic and the town of Blacksburg.  There are certainly some 
> Federal funds invested in this project that have made it possible.  25% of 
> the residents of Blacksburg are hooked into the net.  I am connected VIA a 
> 1MB/sec line which is in my apartment.  All complexes that have been built 
> in the last 3 years have had these connections installed.

Kudos to you Bob.  A T-1 line is good connectivity.  It's good that
Blacksburg has achieved 25%.  I suppose I might be a bit dubious of that
figure, but it doesn't really matter.  I think we are talking about how to
get that number close to 100%.  Considering that telephone penetration is
only around 93% (? and even that # is suspect), I'm not sure that we can
achieve 100%.  What we are talking about here is the haves and the have
nots.  I get the feeling that this group pretty much agrees the we should
try to minimize the have nots.  What I worry about is that the policy
makers might just accept the 25% figure as adequate for the haves, and
leave a vast majority in the have not category.  The prospect of some
people advancing at an exponential rate, while others merely advance by
simple addition, is a frightening one, indeed.  But I'm not too sure how
this situation will be dealt with in the future.  Any ideas as to how many
people we, as a society, can afford to leave un-integrated into the
information age?
 

Marty Salo + msalo@garnet.acns.fsu.edu + http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/~msalo 

From p.stein3@genie.geis.com  Wed Nov 16 23:37:59 1994
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X-Genie-Id: 3547977
X-Genie-From: P.STEIN3

       from Paul Stein      (P.stein3@genie.geis.com)
       addressed to avail,opnaces,and standard topics
 
     Though I subscribed and received confirmation of subscription--I have
 been :
 1.  overwhelmed by the sheer volume of e-mail in my mailbox today!  (73
 letters)
 2...unable to participate--the commercial service (genie) doesn't have full
 internet capability as of
 today.   only e-mail sending and receiving.
 3.Though I received instructions and set up a "password" --I have no
 knowledge or instructions on how to use that password to permit entering the
 "conference"---
      Very discouraging;   and even more so, because many of my "peers with
 weak ears" (people with hearing loss) -consider me to be the "expert"they
 look to for guidance.
 Anyhow, here's my input:
 
To the novice/newcommer to telecomunications---the internet is a mysterious
 "tower of technobabble",
 with so many different codes,abreviations,protocols, modems,
 addresses,passwords, linkages, etc.--
 the physical time required to learn to use it with any degree of utility --
 doesent let the average citizen participate.  We need:
 
A)    STANDARD COMMUNICATIONS TERMINAL
 For those "on-ramps and off-ramps" to the info superhighway of the future ,
 we need a standardized
 computer  (hardware and software).   While the competitive, free market
 philosophy that produced the fantastic progress since the advent of the
 microprocessor---the "monster" is totally out of control, in my opinion.
 It's time to cage that monster or at least harness it if the average human
 is to use its capabilities.
 B)   IDENTIFICATION/ADDRESSING
       Why not use our existing numbering system (the Social Security
 Number) as an individual's address for communication?
 C)  OPEN ACCESS /PRIVACY
       A contradiction in terms!   (like military intelligence :)
 D) AFFORDABILITY
      Different meanings of this criterion (depending on the socio-economic
 status of the individual)
     examples:  "286" computers and others are being melted down for gold
 recovery by some on the basis that its "economically viable"--while many at
 the lower end of the economic spectrum can't afford food and shelter to
 survive, let alone aquire a computer.
       Millions of dollars are being spent by people today on "Computer
 Training" specifically aimed at existing systems of today--which will be
 obsolete and useless by the time they learn enough.
       That's  "A to D"--no time to continue thru X,Y, and Z.
 
To summarize, the good intentions of the NTI in doing this conference is
 appreciated--but it seems to me that the conference was accessable only to
 the "elite" technocrats that got this Nation into the mess we're stuck with.
 God forbid that any unrevocable decisions be made on the basis of this
 conference.
     Looking back at what I've composed here, I still feel firmly that the
 first step (A) above should take priority--design,testing,production and
 distribution of a simple to operate ("turnkey") computer terminal usable
 with much less training and talent than is needed for today's "state of the
 art" computers.
 
                              Paul
 
 
From edb1@Ra.MsState.Edu  Wed Nov 16 23:39:39 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 22:31:39 -0600 (CST)
From: Ellen Davis Burnham <edb1@Ra.MsState.Edu>
X-Sender: edb1@Isis.MsState.Edu
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
cc: Multiple recipients of list <avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:44] Re: my question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411152323.G8265-0100000@Walden.MO.NET>
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Businesses supplying FREENETS to libraries for everyone to have access is 
wonderful...
 
BUT what about us that are the **ONLY** person in your town that does any 
significant amount of traveling over the Internet. Not to mention that it 
was just two months ago the library even obtained a computer (to access 
encyclopedia information) and City Hall is just NOW putting court cases 
on a computer. We're a small town in Mississippi, we have a small tax 
base, and a small school. I have a problem convincing these people they 
need any electronic access to the outer world. Fortunately I have 
Mississippi State University close by to lend support (morally and 
intellectually) and I go to them constantly.

My question, since I've gone around the world, is what do you do about 
availability to the Internet when there's no computer base to access? How 
do you convince people they need something they've seen?

"Ellen"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------~~
Ellen Davis Burnham                      INTERNET:  edb1.@ra.msstate.edu
Rt. 2 Box 63A                            HOME NUMBER:  601-447-3463
Okolona, MS  38860                       +++++LIVE LONG & PROSPER (YA'LL)++++
{Graduate Student at MSU}
---------------------------------------------------------------------------~~

From langley@dirac.scri.fsu.edu  Thu Nov 17 09:35:42 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 09:27:51 -0500
From: Randolph Langley <langley@dirac.scri.fsu.edu>
Message-Id: <199411171427.AA91585@dirac.scri.fsu.edu>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941116094225.11331A-100000@access2.digex.net>
Subject: [AVAIL:57] Re: my question


I agree wholeheartedly - the Internet costs so little, and benefits so
many. As with the interstate highway system, it is a proper and
effective activity for the federal government. I believe most of the
citizenry would not care to see the interstate system given over to a
few large toll companies, and I believe the Internet will be on the
scale of economic and cultural benefit as the interstate system.

rdl


James McDonough writes:
 > I want to add my voice to those favoring greater, not less, government 
 > intervention in the development of the NII (or GII) to protect the 
 > interest of the people against the narrow sectarian interests of large 
 > telecommunications industries. Why the federal government gave up it part 
 > ownership in the Internet backbone is a mystery to me. An active, 
 > interventionist government is essential to assure universal access at 
 > affordable prices from people living in heart of the cities or in the 
 > Upper Peninsula of Michigan.
 > 
 > James McDonough
 > Bethesda, MD
From silke001@maroon.tc.umn.edu  Thu Nov 17 10:02:21 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 08:58:19 CST
From: "Chris Silker" <silke001@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
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Subject: Re: [AVAIL:83] AVAIL digest 11

[snip]
To summarize, the good intentions of the NTI in doing this conference is
 appreciated--but it seems to me that the conference was accessable only to
 the "elite" technocrats that got this Nation into the mess we're stuck with.
 God forbid that any unrevocable decisions be made on the basis of this
 conference.
 [snip]
                              Paul
============================================================================

I think this conference was accessible to more than just "elite 
technocrats."  I, for instance, am a graduate student at the U of MN.  I 
have access because everyone who attends the University has access, and can 
apply their access via numerous computer labs that are open to all 
students.  I think a lot of people don't realize that we're at a very 
critical point with determining the future of resources such as the 
Internet.  I join you in hoping that no irreversible decisions are made on 
the basis of this conference - there needs to be a much wider opportunity 
for public comment.

My "Utopian" vision of the e-future includes reasonably-priced access for 
those who have modems, telephone lines, and computers (access such as that 
provided by the Twin Cities Computer Network) as well as access through the 
public library system for people who do not have home computers or 
telephone lines.  My greatest fear is that the future will be dominated by 
commercial services such as Prodigy, America Online, and CompuServe.


Chris Silker
University of Minnesota
Departments of Rhetoric and Forest Resources
From ntia  Thu Nov 17 12:20:26 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 12:20:26 PST
From: NTIA Virtual Conference <ntia@virtconf.digex.net>
To: avail
Sender: az908@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Holden)
Subject: Re: Availability of statistics
Message-ID: <CMM.0.90.2.785103626.ntia@virtconf.digex.net>

> possible with our network. There should, however, be a source for the 
> public to get our data from, we get paid by community-money so the 
> community should benefit the results of our efforts.
> I am wondering how these matters are regulated in the other countries 
> who participate in the Virtual Conference

Well, here in Canada, the government has several gopher servers, one of
them from Statistics Canada.  This gopher gives the latest statistics put
out by the government.  I'm not sure exactly how it works though since I've
only breifly visited it once.

--

Paul Holden			       "Float like a butterfly,
az908@freenet.carleton.ca		  sting like a bee."


From debbie@periplum.cdinet.com  Thu Nov 17 13:10:45 1994
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From: debbie <debbie@harmony.cdinet.com>
Sender: debbie <debbie@harmony.cdinet.com>
Reply-To: debbie <debbie@harmony.cdinet.com>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:28] Re: Key Issues of Affordability and Availability
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411151613.A12657-0100000@alize.ERE.UMontreal.CA>
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On Tue, 15 Nov 1994, Barcelo Alain-Michel wrote:

> 
> One issue of affordability and availability which has not been raised yet 
> is the question of trans-national or international use of, for example, 
> the Internet. Since there is no multilateral organization to regulate 
> rates between countries with public and/or private telecom companies, we 
> could have people deprived of access to important information which would 
> have been conceived especially for them, or without any tought given to 
> their deprivation. 
> 
A very good point. I guess that the US governmnet's Data Highway Policy 
deals more or less with universal access within US borders only. But 
given the opening up of trade globally--e.g. NAFTA, EEC.--the opening up 
of information on a global scale would be a logical next step.

AT&T and Microsoft's proposal (sometime in mid January of this year) to 
link the globe with 840 satellites would enable/facilitate the 
international use of the Internet. But its cost--$9 billion--is daunting. 
Another major sticking point of this proposal is that it requires a 
coordination of the use of satellite frequencies with other countries, 
countries that probably have their own plans to launch satellite systems 
of their own. Also, the proposal would also involve seeking permission 
from all countries in the world to beam signals in and out of the 
countries' borders--a process that could be politically charged. Perhaps 
this is something the International Telecommunications Union should look 
into, and/or have a say in.
From chrisw@muskox.alaska.edu  Thu Nov 17 13:32:08 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 09:28:56 -0900 (AST)
From: Christine Weiss <chrisw@muskox.alaska.edu>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Who will fund?
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Another viewpoint to add to the discussion comes from John Browning in an 
article from the Sept. '94 issue of WIRED:

 "...universal service is a 1930's solution to a 21st century problem.
  ...the solution is Open Access."

In a nutshell, it seems that Open Access would ensure a competetive 
marketplace, that would in turn keep costs low.

Another option, for what its worth...

cw
Petersburg, Alaska
  
From scxp01@spd3b201.af.mil  Thu Nov 17 13:57:35 1994
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subscribe
         Saundra @ Los Gatos, CA  95030     Tel:408 356-5303       


From <@VM.MARIST.EDU:SB03010@EXCELINK.MARIST.EDU>  Thu Nov 17 15:27:59 1994
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Subject:
>From ID: SB03010
Name:    Bernasconi, Tracy, Marist College - Project Team
Type:    ORG   Class: PVT                       Date:  Thu 17 Nov 1994, 3:17pm
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..
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subscribe 
From ronda@panix.com  Thu Nov 17 16:02:04 1994
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Subject: RE: [Avail:90] Who will fund?
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 09:28:56 -0900 (AST)
> From: Christine Weiss <chrisw@muskox.alaska.edu>
> To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
> Subject: Who will fund?
> Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.90.941117091241.9833A-100000@muskox.alaska.edu>
> 
> 
> Another viewpoint to add to the discussion comes from John Browning in an 
> article from the Sept. '94 issue of WIRED:
> 
>  "...universal service is a 1930's solution to a 21st century problem.
>   ...the solution is Open Access."

Universal service is needed because the "marketplace" is NOT
to be relied on in the 1990's just as it couldn't be relied on
in the 1930"s.

The MYTH that the so called "MARKETPLACE" solves the problems
that are raised in a high technology situation is a myth.

Under a regulated environment Bell Labs of AT&T created the transistor,
Unix, and other important technological advances.

Under government funding and requirements - the ARPANET research 
was carried out and provided the basis for the Internet. Under
government funding and regulation the NSF helped to develop
and expand the Internet.

This history and background needs to be seriously examined 
by those who want a forward step in the development of the 
Internet and the Global Computer Network.

Instead of the real history of how the Global Computer Network
being considered in the quest for the path forward, the
preconceived solution that benefits the big corporations
is thrust forward as the solution.

Telephone service for the public has deteriorated and 
become more expensive with deregulation of the phone
system in the U.S. And instead of AT&T spending money on
technological improvements as it was forced to do in the 1970's
(when it had to automate to improve service and in the process
gave the world Unix) we get fairytails about the superiority of 
the "marketplace".

 

> In a nutshell, it seems that Open Access would ensure a competetive 
> marketplace, that would in turn keep costs low.


With the deregulation of the U.S. telephone company, when
I make a phone call from a pay phone, more than 1/2 the time they
aren't working, and when they are I am likely to get a 
carrier who charges me outrageous rates for a few minutes
on a long distance call.


It seems more that we need to look back at the original problems that led to 
the understanding that universal service was needed - rather than 
return to the days when the public is fleeced in the name of 
so called "open access".



> 
> Another option, for what its worth...
> 
> cw
> Petersburg, Alaska
>   

What is the problem you are trying to solve?

If it is how to make money for the companies that want to get rich
off of the U.S. taxpayer investment in the research that has resulted in
the Global Computer Network -- then perhaps so called "open access"
as you put it is an option.

But for those of us who want the Net to Grow and develop in a 
way consistent with its previous development, we want low cost or
free access to be available to everyone who wants it --
that has -- as far as I know -- been termed universal service.

A Net needs to be as extensive as possible -- that is why
universal service as a principle was adopted for the U.S.
telephone company -- there are those areas that the "market"
wouldn't bring phone service to - and there needed to be
regulation requiring that those areas where service was cheaper
to install would help subsidize those areas where service might be 
more expensive to install.

Extension of the Global Network around the U.S. requires such
support and regulation today as extension of the telephone system
required such support and regulation in the 1930's.


ronda
ronda@panix.com
or
ronda@umcc.umich.edu
---
write for a free email issue of "The Amateur Computerist" celebrating
the 25th anniversary of Unix - ronda@umcc.umich.edu


From <@VM.MARIST.EDU:SB03010@EXCELINK.MARIST.EDU>  Thu Nov 17 16:10:52 1994
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Date:        Thu, 17 Nov 94 14:58:35 EST
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To: <AVAIL@VIRTCONF.NTIA.DOC.GOV>, <STANDARD@VIRTCONF.NTIA.DOC.GOV>,
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Subject:
>From ID: SB03010
Name:    Bernasconi, Tracy, Marist College - Project Team
Type:    ORG   Class: PVT                       Date:  Thu 17 Nov 1994, 2:58pm
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Date:        Thu, 17 Nov 94 16:24:45 EST
From: "Rapisarda, Alessandra" <SB03004@EXCELINK.MARIST.EDU>
To: "Rapisarda, Alessandra" <SB03004@EXCELINK.MARIST.EDU>,
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Subject:
>From ID: SB03004
Name:    Rapisarda, Alessandra, Marist College - Project Team
Type:    ORG   Class: PVT                       Date:  Thu 17 Nov 1994, 4:24pm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Dear Frank-

In response to your request for prior research on telecommunications policies
favoring economic development vs. universal service, I offer our Network's
first year analysis.  ExceLink -The Communications Network is a online,
computer-mediated information system enabling member companies to access
and share information electronically and immediately with other businesses.
Concentrating service to smaller business, specifically the smaller
manufacturer in New York State, ExceLink is a business tool, providing the
valuable information available on the Internet to those that otherwise cannot
afford, nor maintain the resources necessary to use the Information
Superhighway.

ExceLink is truly an integration of these two focuses.  In providing
procurement information to member companies, ExceLink is at the heart of the
movement to bring new and varied economic opportunities to smaller
companies, long dependent on their larger partners for sustenance.
Similarly, these same companies take advantage of advanced technology
developed by partnerships both within the College, as well as regional
businesses.  Through these partnerships, ExceLink is able to service small
companies with options such as ISO9000 Certification, Expert Technical Advice
and Electronic Data Interchange (EDI) at lower cost and facilitated mediation.

I would welcome a discussion surrounding ExceLink's mission to illustrate how
we can unite these two philosophies of information access and development.
The First Year's Report is available to all those that are interested.  Thank
you.

Sincerely,
Alex Rapisarda
Information Specialist
SB03004@ExceLink.Marist.edu
ExceLink -The Communications Network
Marist College
Dyson 386, 290 North Road
Poughkeepsie, NY 12601-1387
voice:914-575-5200
fax:914-575-3139
:)
From chage@rahul.net  Thu Nov 17 17:24:40 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 13:05:41 PST
From: chage@rahul.net (Carl Hage)
Message-Id: <9411172105.AA19439@slick.chage.com>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Re:  [AVAIL:41] my question

>From: Marty Salo <msalo@garnet.acns.fsu.edu>
>
> So, I guess I'm wanting some sort of
>feedback as to how thw present administration feels about letting the
>libraries try to satisfy the public's desire to connect to the net.  Will
>this be yet another example where government sides with business, and the
>library's role is diminished?  Will we have 50,000 channels with all
>sorts of complex and expensive packaging of channels?

I cringe whenever I see the "channel" metaphor used in the context of
the "information infrastructure" as to me it implies the one way,
noninteractive TV like broadcast, rather than a metaphor like "archive" or
"library" which refer to information sources.

I think the libraries role can be enhanced in a couple of ways. Of course
a digital library accessable via network makes physical location
irrelevant (except for access rights), so information kept at very large
libraries, e.g. the library of congress, could be available at every local
and school library, as well as to the home. There will be even more need
for librarians to organize this information, and the field of library
science might expand.

Also, the use of terminals in libraries complements paper based documents.
Many people find reading paper books and magazines more convienient than
looking at a CRT. Thus one might go visit a library to have access to a
printed collection. The terminals at the library could be used to access
supplementary information which is referenced in the paper documents,
or for less used referenced material. Likewise, the terminals may be used
for searches and to retrieve documents which reference material which is
available in print.

I think it is important to avoid "expensive packaging of channels", and
that networking, telecomminucations, and information services are unbundled.
Public information should be truly public and freely accessable to all.
Community libraries or individuals might pay a small fee for network
usage to retrieve a document, but should not be charged for the right to
obtain access.

The Government Printing Office charges $375/year for the privalege of
accessing the Federal Register, but limited free access is being made
via some depository libraries. The $375 is substantially more than
most internet providers charge for vastly more services. Perhaps this
price might be justified on the basis of the number of users and the
revenue obtained. However, the problem is that the GPO is obtaining little
revenue from a tiny number of customers who are willing to pay the high
fees just to access the Federal Register. Instead of providing free paper
copies of documents in a few federal libraries, free access for everyone
and all libraries could be done for less money.
From chage@rahul.net  Thu Nov 17 17:24:41 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 12:23:44 PST
From: chage@rahul.net (Carl Hage)
Message-Id: <9411172023.AA19431@slick.chage.com>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Re: Cheap Public Access

>From: ab147@virgin.uvi.edu (Gary M. Goodlander)
>I want to see cheap public access to the Internet, and
>other informational services. 

I believe we can use the free market and competition to significantly
lower the cost to access the net and provide a wide variety of options.
There are a number of things that the government could do to enhance
the competition and available services which would cost very little.

The basic idea is to upgrade the information on internet providers
maintained by internic.net so new users can easily obtain and redistribute
a comprehensive list of all means to obtain access in a certain area.
Alternative providers with very low cost will then be able to provide
services without spending large amounts of money on advertising,
and users will be better able to comparison shop and could either
select the a low cost provider, a public access terminal, or
a permium service which best matches thier needs.

Many people do not realize there already are many low cost and even
free ways to get access to the internet. For example:

   - Many BBS systems operated as a hobby provide free access with email
     to the internet. Typically these might have 1 or two phone lines
     with modems, so users might need to redial often and avoid peak
     use times. Off-line mail readers allow people to minimize connect
     time.
   
   - A number of coffee shops in San Francisco have public internet/SFNet
     terminals. For a quarter, you get access for a certain period of time
     (much longer than a video game).
     
   - FreeNets, CivicNets, etc. have systems operated by volunteers which
     provide free access or charge $10-$50 per year.
     
   - Some BBS operators and other enterpreneurs have expanded to being
     regular internet access providers, who offer lower cost, better
     services, etc. than the competition.
     
   - Libraries and schools are beginning to add terminals. If information
     on microfiche, etc. which libraries purchased were

The biggest problem with access is that the public doesn't know how
to get started. The services most heavily advertised on TV, etc. or
major national chains are the only services most people know about.
These happen to be the most expensive and typically have very poor
access to internet (e.g. email only with a huge access fee).

What could be done to solve this problem is to enhance the directories
of providers maintained at internic.net, the organization which
handles registration of internet domain names, etc. This single
central directory could then be advertised and promoted as a place
to find information on all providers at a certain area. Printouts
for a given area could be distributed at libraries, schools, computer
stores, newspapers, etc. Likewise, gopher, WWW, internet FAQs, internet
books, etc. would reference the central list.

What I envision, is that a user could connect to a WWW or gopher server,
could send an email query, could direct dial via modem, or could
dial with a touch-tone fax. Users could enter thier telephone number
area code and prefix, and would receive detailed information on the
providers with local or nearby numbers

The best way for someone now to find a provider is to check the PDIAL
list maintained on a volunteer basis, and accessable at various places
on the internet. There is a registration at internic.net, but the
information there is limited and it does not include many providers
which exist on the PDIAL list. In my opinion, the maintainers of the
directory at internic.net have not made a best effort to find all
providers.

There are a number of problems with the PDIAL list, which I think
could be improved. One problem is that there is limited detail
on the prices and services, and typically users need to be experts
and send email or log into a service provider to find out basic
information. That makes shopping difficult.

Another problem is that not all providers are listed. There are many
systems, BBSes, etc. which provide internet email (including expensive
national providers) but are not listed, since this was beyond the scope of
the project. There are a few missing, since it is up to the providers
to send in information to the volunteer who maintains PDIAL. Public
access terminals are also not part of the project.

The PDIAL list is that it is somewhat difficult to use, since it a large
file for the entire country which must be searched to find particular
area.  It would be nicer to have a server which could be queried so a user
could type in an area code and prefix and could get back a list of
providers nearby, with the category of telephone charges, e.g. local, ZUM
long distance, centrex, etc. Local schools, newspapers, computer stores,
etc. could redistribute copies of the local list. There is a query
on ds.internic.net or rs.internic.net, but the information is incomplete
and lacks detail.

Providers of all forms could send in thier registration or update a
registration for this central Internet directory via email, and could
be processed by an automated server (as is done now for some domain name
registrations). A standard form could be developed which would include
the necessary details on the types of service, prices, etc. which
would allow comparison shopping.

It would also be important to include some basic information explaining
the different types of services, and what there is to consider when
selecting a provider.

I think that a single central directory is the simplest solution which
is maintained by an independent organization. The central internet
registration, which I believe is funded under a government contract,
seems to be the logical choice. (I suppose one could argue that the
free market should compete, e.g. the books which are a dump of PDIAL
for sale at a high cost, but are incomplete and obsolete. However,
the public has no way to judge the quality of independent directories.)

I propose that the internic registration services for maintaining internet
provider information be substantially upgraded with some of the ideas
presented here. Perhaps a 1/2 man year effort might be needed to implement
the automated system and maintain it for a year. The contract requirements
for rs.internic.net (or ds.internic.net) need to be altered or expanded to
specify the expanded role with more detailed registration and query
services.

I suggest that some of the internet newsgroups should be used to
debate the form of the services and the types of information maintained,
and the contents of a FAQ file explaining the types of services and
how to interpret the detailed information in the service providers
list.

Later, the registration of internet services could be expanded to include
WWW services, shopping, etc., and the query capabilities could be
enhanced.

I would personally be willing to volunteer some help in getting such
a process going, and/or to provide more detailed information on some
ideas for maintaining a central internet services registration/directory.
However, I believe it really needs to be done independently of a
commercial company, and ideally should be done by some overall respected
authority, e.g. the Internet Network Information Center, or a federal
agency.

From OUTLAWP@mail.firn.edu  Thu Nov 17 17:27:44 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 17:03:50 EST
From: "PEGGY S. OUTLAW (904)627-9651" <OUTLAWP@mail.firn.edu>
Subject: Rural areas
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
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I am interested in knowing what this administration plans to do to help 
rural areas get on the internet.  In our rural county in north Florida, 
most of our families are below the poverty level.  The best way for our 
citizens to have access to the information superhighway is through our 
schools.  We need help in obtaining the equipment -- telephones lines, 
computers, modems.  Are there grants out there which would help us with 
obtaining the basics

From bsummers@vt.edu  Thu Nov 17 17:35:14 1994
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To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
From: bsummers@vt.edu (Bob Summers)
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:96] Re:  my question
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

>>library's role is diminished?  Will we have 50,000 channels with all
>>sorts of complex and expensive packaging of channels?
>I cringe whenever I see the "channel" metaphor used in the context of
>the "information infrastructure" as to me it implies the one way,
>noninteractive TV like broadcast, rather than a metaphor like "archive" or
>"library" which refer to information sources.
In order for the nation to access a common pool of information, such as the 
library of congress, an efficient system must be in place to handle the load 
of thousands of library's and other users to access the information.  Yes, I 
believe that there will have to be an outlay of funds to provide such a 
system, not to mention the cost of putting the information online.  These 
funds must come from the Federal government, since it is for the public.  

I believe that the main argument for the expenditure of such funds is that 
the majority of the public will not be able to access such a system because 
they cannot afford to be connected.  How does Joe average American afford to 
purchase a computer and connection to the internet??  Perhaps he could go to 
the library. But who pays for all of the systems that go into the libraries 
across the country??  Perhaps a cooperation between local, state and federal 
would be the answer..

Bob Summers
Senior Computer Engineer
Virginia Tech
bsummers@vt.edu

From bsummers@vt.edu  Thu Nov 17 17:45:27 1994
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To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
From: bsummers@vt.edu (Bob Summers)
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:98] Rural areas
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

>I am interested in knowing what this administration plans to do to help 
>rural areas get on the internet.  In our rural county in north Florida, 
>most of our families are below the poverty level.  The best way for our 
>citizens to have access to the information superhighway is through our 
>schools.  We need help in obtaining the equipment -- telephones lines, 
>computers, modems.  Are there grants out there which would help us with 
>obtaining the basics
If the federal government really wants to do something, they will support 
the rural areas by supplying internet hub access areas in libraries and 
schools.  In the urban areas I believe that a connection to every house will 
be the way, but rural areas cost too much to cable everyone, with little 
return..

From bsummers@vt.edu  Thu Nov 17 18:19:53 1994
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From: bsummers@vt.edu (Bob Summers)
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

>I am interested in knowing what this administration plans to do to help 
>rural areas get on the internet.  In our rural county in north Florida, 
>most of our families are below the poverty level.  The best way for our 
>citizens to have access to the information superhighway is through our 
>schools.  We need help in obtaining the equipment -- telephones lines, 
>computers, modems.  Are there grants out there which would help us with 
>obtaining the basics
If the federal government really wants to do something, they will support 
the rural areas by supplying internet hub access areas in libraries and 
schools.  In the urban areas I believe that a connection to every house will 
be the way, but rural areas cost too much to cable everyone, with little 
return..

Bob Summers
Senior Computer Engineer
Virinia Tech
bsummmers@vt.edu

From rbarry@hopper.itc.virginia.edu  Thu Nov 17 18:26:13 1994
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From: Rey Barry <rbarry@hopper.itc.virginia.edu>
Message-Id: <199411172318.SAA36755@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:99] AVAIL digest 16
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 18:18:20 -0500 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199411180135.RAA07684@virtconf.digex.net> from "avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov" at Nov 17, 94 05:35:59 pm
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> Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 17:03:50 EST
> From: "PEGGY S. OUTLAW (904)627-9651" <OUTLAWP@mail.firn.edu>
> To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
> Subject: Rural areas
> Message-ID: <E1431ZVMOOKK8Z*/R=FIRNVX/R=A1/U=OUTLAWP/@MHS>
> 
> I am interested in knowing what this administration plans to do to help 
> rural areas get on the internet.  In our rural county in north Florida, 
> most of our families are below the poverty level.  The best way for our 
> citizens to have access to the information superhighway is through our 
> schools.  We need help in obtaining the equipment -- telephones lines, 
> computers, modems.  Are there grants out there which would help us with 
> obtaining the basics

One active source in this area is NPTN - the National Public
Telecommunications Network.  They are vitally interested in seeing
service to rural areas.  One of the TII grant awards made Oct. 12 this
year was $900,000 to NPTN to fund 20 rural free-net type local nets.

NPTN is telnet-able and some of the most valuable information avalable on
starting/running local networks comes from them.  They have a proposal
around to become the NPR of cyberspace.  The network has 32 local nets in
its membership as of last week, and 122 in the planning stage.

I have nothing to do with this group.  I ran across them when trying to
prepare for these forums.  We're struggling to get a local network going
in Central Virginia and, as we were turned down for a TIIA on Oct. 12,
we're now fishing other waters.


-- 
 
 rbarry@hopper.itc.virginia.edu          Freeware Hall of Fame BBS  
    The only thing Americans       Hayes Optima 288 - 804-293-4710 
   have in common is paranoia.       Free BBS - 1st call downloads  
From ntia  Thu Nov 17 18:30:39 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 18:30:38 PST
From: NTIA Virtual Conference <ntia@virtconf.digex.net>
To: avail, privacy, info, standard, redefus, opnacces, intellec
Subject: Virtual Conference EXTENDED
Message-ID: <CMM.0.90.2.785125838.ntia@virtconf.digex.net>


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:                 CONTACT:  Stephanie Schoumacher        
November 17, 1994                                  Paige Darden
                                                   (202) 482-1551       

	

       CLINTON ADMINISTRATION EXTENDS SUCCESSFUL VIRTUAL CONFERENCE TO 
CONTINUE VALUABLE DIALOGUE ON INFORMATION SUPERHIGHWAY

WASHINGTON, DC -- Due to strong interest, the National
Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) is
extending its virtual conference on universal service and open
access to our nation's telecommunications networks until 12:00
midnight EST, Wednesday, November 23, 1994.
      
      As of 2:00 p.m. today, there had been nearly 6000 accesses to
the world wide web server for the virtual conference.  The
conference listservs, which are on topics related to bringing the
benefits of the information superhighway to all Americans, are
averaging 400 subscribers per list.  The conference had originally
been scheduled to conclude tomorrow.

      "We are thrilled with the volume of traffic and quality of the
dialogue on the listservs, and hope that the extension will give as
many people as possible the opportunity to contribute to the
electronic discussion," said Larry Irving, Assistant Secretary for
Communications and Information and Administrator of NTIA.  

      "Through the virtual conference, the Clinton Administration is
demonstrating how our information infrastructure can be used to
deliver social services and allow greater citizen participation in
the development of government policies," said Irving. 
      
      To view the conference or to get information on subscribing to
a listserv, send an e-mail message to info@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov.
If you would like to read the position papers of experts on the
issue of universal service that were posted at the start of the
conference and the responses that have been generated thus far,
there are electronic archive files for each listserv available via
gopher, www, or telnet access to iitf.doc.gov.  The entire archive
will be available electronically after the conference through the
Clinton Administration's Information Infrastructure Task Force
(IITF) at the same site.  For more information on the conference,
contact Paige Darden at 202-482-1551 (voice) or
pdarden@ntia.doc.gov (e-mail).
                                      ###


From az908@freenet.carleton.ca  Fri Nov 18 01:22:31 1994
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Message-Id: <199411180614.BAA18487@freenet.carleton.ca>
From: az908@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Holden)
To: privacy@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov, avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Reply-To: az908@freenet.carleton.ca

redefus@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov, standard@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov,
ntia@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Digests?
Cc:
Reply-To: az908@FreeNet.Carleton.CA

Why are all postings to this list always coming in the form of a "digest"? 
It seems to have started sometime yesterday, why, can anybody tell me?

Thanks,

--

Paul Holden			       "Float like a butterfly,
az908@freenet.carleton.ca		  sting like a bee."
From CarlPers@ix.netcom.com  Fri Nov 18 02:13:51 1994
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From: CarlPers@ix.netcom.com (Carl Person)
Subject: Fwd: MISC> NTIA virtual conference on IH (fwd)
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov

subscribe Affordability and Availability Carl E. Person

 
> 
> ****************************************************************
> 
>                                           REGISTRATION FORM
> 
> 
>         Contact Name:  Carl E. Person
> ________________________________________________
> 
>         Organization: Law Offices of Carl E. Person
> ________________________________________________
> 
>         Address:  325 w. 45th St. - Suite 201
> ________________________________________________
> 
>         City:  New York
> ________________________________________________
>       State, Zip:  NY  10036-3803
> ________________________________________________
> 
>         Phone & Fax: tel: 212-307-4444   fax: 212-307-0247
> ________________________________________________
> 
>         E-mail Address:  carlpers@ix.netcom.com




-- 
Carl E. Person, intellectual property attorney,
325 W 45 St  NY NY 10036; tel: 212-307-4444;
fax 212-307-0247. "waiting to communicate
with persons having or seeking new ideas".
From CarlPers@ix.netcom.com  Fri Nov 18 02:22:22 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 23:14:18 -0800
Message-Id: <199411180714.XAA07170@ix.ix.netcom.com>
From: CarlPers@ix.netcom.com (Carl Person)
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov

> ****************************************************************
> 
>                                           REGISTRATION FORM
> 
> 
>         Contact Name:  Carl E. Person
> ________________________________________________
> 
>         Organization: Law Offices of Carl E. Person
> ________________________________________________
> 
>         Address:  325 w. 45th St. - Suite 201
> ________________________________________________
> 
>         City:  New York
> ________________________________________________
>       State, Zip:  NY  10036-3803
> ________________________________________________
> 
>         Phone & Fax: tel: 212-307-4444   fax: 212-307-0247
> ________________________________________________
> 
>         E-mail Address:  carlpers@ix.netcom.com



-- 
Carl E. Person, intellectual property attorney,
325 W 45 St  NY NY 10036; tel: 212-307-4444;
fax 212-307-0247. "waiting to communicate
with persons having or seeking new ideas".
From innd@virtconf.digex.net  Fri Nov 18 02:31:24 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 02:31:24 -0800
From: innd@virtconf.digex.net
Message-Id: <199411181031.CAA02309@virtconf.digex.net>
Reply-To: innd@virtconf.digex.net
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: UseNet-News

Newsgroups: alt.ntia.avail
Path: virtconf!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!uhog.mit.edu!sgiblab!nbn!nic.scruz.net!cruzio!henro
From: henro@cruzio.com
Subject: Interactive Video Conference
Reply-To: henro@cruzio.com
Organization: Cruzio Community Networking System, Santa Cruz, CA
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 05:01:22 GMT
Message-ID: <CzG5yJ.F9C@cruzio.com>
Keywords: Sarajevo, Tokyo, Moscow, Paris, Santa Cruz
Sender: henro@cruzio.com (Don Weiss)
Lines: 53


Talk about <<syncronicity>> -- I was browsing the web and found 
that this week, a lot of experts in the field are discussing 
what my NGO is doing. We are putting on an internation interactive 
video conference to Cyber-Liberate Sarajevo. Here's the short 
version of our press release. Any of you who are interested, 
please e-mail me at  henro@cruzio.com   or, by tomorrow, at our 
group's new domain   info@plaza.org    I suspect a lot of you 
reading this will be VERY interest in this application.

UNESCO SANCTIONS <<CYBER-LIBERATION>> OF SARAJEVO
Santa Cruz, CA (November 17, 1994) -- UNESCO officials and citizens 
of Tokyo, Moscow, Paris and Santa Cruz will join together on 
Saturday, November 19, to demonstrate interactive video technology 
that organizers will use for the <<Cyber-Liberation of Sarajevo>> the 
end of its intellectual blockade.

Speaking from Tokyo, Suada Kapic (SWA-da KAH-pich), Artistic 
Director of the Sarajevo Arts Festival and founder of the Museum 
of Survival in Sarajevo, will call for the establishment of an 
Interactive Plaza in Sarajevo linked with a network of similar 
plazas world-wide. 

Speaking from Paris, UNESCO Assistant Director-General Henrikas 
Yushkiavitchus will stress that he supports this <<Cyber-Liberation>> 
project.

The moderator of the session, Dr. Paul Lee, will speak from Santa 
Cruz with his colleage Prof. Paul Ricoeur, in Paris, on the theme 
of an <<economy of gift.>> They will challenge the international 
community to give an Interactive Plaza to Sarajevo.

Joseph Goldin, the Russian visionary behind this project, will 
say that his Global Interactive Plaza Foundation will join with 
Mr. Yushkiavitchus and request that the United Nations contribute 
one percent of its peacekeeping military budget to establish 
Interactive Plazas in conflict areas worldwide. This will be 
in keeping with the UNESCO goal of moving from Peace Keeping 
to Peace Building.

The forum will announce a New Year's Eve deadline for installation 
of the interactive plaza in Sarajevo. By linking cities on five 
continents with Sarajevo, New Year's Eve will become a truly 
global celebration of the Cyber-Liberation of the city under 
siege.


Date: 		November 19, 1994
Time: 	5:00 a.m. to   6:30 a.m. Pacific Standard Time.

For more information, contact:
Don Weiss, Executive Secretary, Global Interactive Plaza Foundation
phone/fax 408-423-5006
From 74543.720@compuserve.com  Fri Nov 18 02:44:41 1994
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	id CAA08141; Fri, 18 Nov 1994 02:36:21 -0500
Date: 18 Nov 94 02:33:42 EST
From: Stan Witnov <74543.720@compuserve.com>
To: multiple recipients of avail list <avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov>
Subject: FOUR DAY CONFERENCE THOTS
Message-ID: <941118073341_74543.720_EHH62-2@CompuServe.COM>

Dear Conferees,

	After reviewing papers and comments for the past four days it is
difficult for me to imagine any kind of consensus emerging from the varied
positions--especially noteworthy from the negative side is the energy examining
"who's ripping off who!"

	Why are so many participants against unleashing American business (AND
it's stereotypical greed) in order to let the invisible hand lead us to the most
efficient use of resources.  I certainly trust that our government regulators
and court system will move in at the appropriate time and correct some of the
"wrongs" which are inevitable (whether we're under a  government OR private
enterprise umbrella).

	I believe our great advantage here is to let venture capital risk itself
for a profit but in so doing create and market services which increase user
knowledge, accessability, and the population of users.  Instead of endangering
the goverment with the burden of risk (and our own tax obligations) I believe we
should cut-loose American companies onto a playing field and let THEM sell the
consumer on the future he/she desires.

	Further, I believe that we may end-up belonging to particular nodes which
may be a function of our geographic location: our nodes may cluster around
high-end users (e.g., computer companies, universities, major hi-tech industiral
areas).  For example, I may be part of a node that represents the West Coast
while a different node with compatible (but possibly different technology)
interfaces from an electronic node based around the Washington DC corrider.  How
many of us are accessing this conference on identical computers/same
software/similar hardware configurations?  I suspect that were pretty
heterogenous already.  My suspician is that we'll move ahead into the
information age with a continuous set of renovations and remodels with an
occassional glimpse of self-discovery that brings us into accord only
occasionally (e.g., ASCII and modem configurations).  We certainly are blessed
(as opposed to viewing ourselves as victims) with a plethora of operating
systems that are clever, effecient, and cheered and booed by consumers who vote
with their DOLLARS!

Anyway, these are my four day thoughts.  Best paper (and most practical
perspective from my viewpoint has been Henry Huang (AVAIL:38).

Thanx for listening--Stan Witnov


From korhonen@tenet.edu  Fri Nov 18 08:54:45 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 07:46:53 -0600 (CST)
From: Marilyn Letitia Korhonen <korhonen@tenet.edu>
Subject: Re: Cheap Public Access
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
In-Reply-To: <9411172023.AA19431@slick.chage.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9411180733.A27478-0100000@Gayle-Gaston.tenet.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 17 Nov 1994, Carl Hage wrote:

> >From: ab147@virgin.uvi.edu (Gary M. Goodlander)
> >I want to see cheap public access to the Internet, and
> >other informational services. 
> 
> I believe we can use the free market and competition to significantly
> lower the cost to access the net and provide a wide variety of options.
> There are a number of things that the government could do to enhance
> the competition and available services which would cost very little.

I live in rural Texas and work from home.  My phone bill for Internet 
access is over $100 every month and moves toward $200 on a good month.  
Texas has TENET for educators and the Trans-Texas Video Network which 
links many higher education campuses by T1.  However, I am seeing no 
action to serve people like me with toll-free service.  Frankly, I may be 
the only person in my county that uses Internet. 

How do we convince the government that it is cost effective to provide 
toll-free service to me and others like me in remote areas?  

Marilyn Korhonen
From korhonen@tenet.edu  Fri Nov 18 08:57:02 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 07:49:04 -0600 (CST)
From: Marilyn Letitia Korhonen <korhonen@tenet.edu>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:98] Rural areas
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
In-Reply-To: <E1431ZVMOOKK8Z*/R=FIRNVX/R=A1/U=OUTLAWP/@MHS>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9411180710.B27478-0100000@Gayle-Gaston.tenet.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 17 Nov 1994, PEGGY S. OUTLAW (904)627-9651 wrote:

> I am interested in knowing what this administration plans to do to help 
> rural areas get on the internet.  In our rural county in north Florida, 
> most of our families are below the poverty level.  The best way for our 
> citizens to have access to the information superhighway is through our 
> schools.  We need help in obtaining the equipment -- telephones lines, 
> computers, modems.  Are there grants out there which would help us with 
> obtaining the basics
> 
The REA and the U.S. Department of Education both have grant programs to 
address these issues.  They are much smaller than TIIAP, but a start.

Marilyn Korhonen 
From korhonen@tenet.edu  Fri Nov 18 09:00:25 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 07:52:32 -0600 (CST)
From: Marilyn Letitia Korhonen <korhonen@tenet.edu>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:100] Re: Rural areas
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
In-Reply-To: <199411180145.RAA08450@virtconf.digex.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9411180704.C27478-0100000@Gayle-Gaston.tenet.edu>
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On Thu, 17 Nov 1994, Bob Summers wrote:

> >I am interested in knowing what this administration plans to do to help 
> >rural areas get on the internet.  

> If the federal government really wants to do something, they will support 
> the rural areas by supplying internet hub access areas in libraries and 
> schools.  

I agree to the extent that schools and libraries will allow this.  We do 
not have a library in my local phone exchange, so that wouldn't serve my 
area and many others.  The schools would be an answer for some, but the 
school in my district is not interested, even if I'll write grants for 
them.  They do not trust it, they can not see the usefulness in their 
day-to-day lives, and they are simply not interested.

Marilyn Korhonen
From sporing@cais.cais.com  Fri Nov 18 09:07:36 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 09:01:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Jsporing <sporing@cais.cais.com>
Subject: Re: Cheap Public Access
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
cc: Multiple recipients of list <avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411180733.A27478-0100000@Gayle-Gaston.tenet.edu>
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> I live in rural Texas and work from home.  My phone bill for Internet 
> access is over $100 every month and moves toward $200 on a good month.  
> Texas has TENET for educators and the Trans-Texas Video Network which 
> links many higher education campuses by T1.  However, I am seeing no 
> action to serve people like me with toll-free service.  Frankly, I may be 
> the only person in my county that uses Internet. 
> 
> How do we convince the government that it is cost effective to provide 
> toll-free service to me and others like me in remote areas?  
> 
> Marilyn Korhonen

I believe that private access for users such as Marilyn will emerge.  As 
the telecommunications markets expand, I assume that companies will, 
either voluntarily or through regulations, offer access to the I-way to 
less profitable areas, such as rural areas.

This may be done in co-ops much the way that small local telephone 
companies operate.  Or if the big boys want to play in that region, they 
will be able to supplement the expenses of the rural areas with revenues 
from the urban areas - like the old AT&T did with long distance and local 
service.

John Sporing
From korhonen@tenet.edu  Fri Nov 18 09:11:58 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 08:04:02 -0600 (CST)
From: Marilyn Letitia Korhonen <korhonen@tenet.edu>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:112] Re: Cheap Public Access
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411180804.A25541-0100000@cais2.cais.com>
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> > How do we convince the government that it is cost effective to provide 
> > toll-free service to me and others like me in remote areas?  
> 
> I believe that private access for users such as Marilyn will emerge.  As 
> the telecommunications markets expand, I assume that companies will, 
> either voluntarily or through regulations, offer access to the I-way to 
> less profitable areas, such as rural areas.
> 
> John Sporing
> 
Actually, I hear that the telcos are trying to <increase> the cost of one 
and two minute toll calls.  They say they lose money when we dial up just 
to check mail or send a quick message and when we send brief faxes.  

Marilyn Korhonen
From deering@odi.cwc.whecn.edu  Fri Nov 18 11:44:41 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 09:33:14 -700 (MST)
From: Carol Deering <deering@odi.cwc.whecn.edu>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: rural areas
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.90.941118085624.725A-100000@odi.cwc.whecn.edu>
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Sender: deering@odi.cwc.whecn.edu

I just wanted to mention the large Indian reservation which surrounds our 
town.  A great many people who live there have no telephones and some 
even no TV.  I have seen mention in this conference of other rural 
situations, but I wanted to be sure to include this type of rural 
instance.  There is no library service to this area, either.
From jose@radlab.ucsf.EDU  Fri Nov 18 13:18:13 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 94 10:09:26 PST
From: jose@radlab.ucsf.EDU (Jose Morales)
Message-Id: <9411181809.AA18505@radlab.ucsf.EDU>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: subscribe

subscribe Jose Morales
From patricem@cap.gwu.edu  Fri Nov 18 14:07:04 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 13:57:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Patrice McDermott <patricem@cap.gwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Error Condition Re: No messages
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9411161119.B4749-8100000@cap.gwu.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.07.9411181316.A29916-a100000@cap.gwu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Wed, 16 Nov 1994 avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov wrote:

> patricem@cap.gwu.edu: You are not subscribed to avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov.
> Your message is returned to you unprocessed. If you want to subscribe,
> send mail to listserv@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov with the following request:
> 
> 		subscribe AVAIL Your Name
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Other than a welcome message, I have received no messages or postings on
> this topic conference.  I cannot believe nothing is going on.  Please clarify.
> 
> Patrice McDermott
> patricem@cap.gwu.edu
> 
> 
Odd, then, that I received a message telling me that I was subscribed &
welcoming me.


Patrice McDermott
patricem@cap.gwu.edu


From innd@virtconf.digex.net  Fri Nov 18 15:11:35 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 15:11:35 -0800
From: innd@virtconf.digex.net
Message-Id: <199411182311.PAA21384@virtconf.digex.net>
Reply-To: innd@virtconf.digex.net
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: UseNet-News

Path: virtconf!miwok!nbn!nic.scruz.net!johnr.sj.scruznet.com!haggis
From: haggis@netcom.com (John R. Haggis)
Newsgroups: alt.ntia.avail
Subject: U.S. OUT OF MY COMPUTER
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 11:20:01 UNDEFINED
Organization: Millennium Research
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <haggis.331.0031E811@netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: johnr.sj.scruznet.com
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #1]

I'm a little confused about this whole superhighway thing.

I thought it was just political hot air from Dan Gore, I mean Al Quayle, I 
mean, well, you know who I mean.

Why do we need the government to mess around in this at all?  Seems to me that 
the underlying thread is to get something for nothing.  Well, everything 
costs, and it costs big.  If you get the government involved big time in 
funding, it'll just be another entitlement to get cut off when the political 
climate changes.  Look at Welfare and Medicare now!

Besides, there's no quicker way to utterly destroy the community spirit of the 
Internet than to get the government involved.  Even quicker than AT&T and the 
other huge commercial concerns.

If you're afraid of losing free and easy access, support your small-time 
access providers and your non-CIX providers.  Bolster the system from the 
grass roots.  Encourage providers to donate lines to libraries.  There are so 
darn many providers now, if each donated one line you could have multiple 
terminals in every Bay Area libraries!

Become a provider!  Give service away!  That's what we're doing here.  Use the 
income from those who _can_ pay to redistribute some connectivity to those who 
can't very well.

Come on, people, keep it human.  Don't suck us into the political machine.  
The Internet is just another faceless medium for petty power in the eyes of 
politicians.

- John R. Haggis   (johnr@johnr.sf.scruznet.com)


From innd@virtconf.digex.net  Fri Nov 18 16:00:55 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 16:00:55 -0800
From: innd@virtconf.digex.net
Message-Id: <199411190000.QAA25220@virtconf.digex.net>
Reply-To: innd@virtconf.digex.net
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: UseNet-News

Newsgroups: alt.ntia.avail
Path: virtconf!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!bazyar
From: bazyar@netcom.com (Jawaid Bazyar)
Subject: Re: Need for Federal Oversight of Access and Availability
Message-ID: <bazyarCzH7Lu.HoE@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <1994Nov15.002742.7646@virgin.uvi.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 18:34:41 GMT
Lines: 26

ab368@virgin.uvi.edu (Bruce Potter) writes:
>To the NTIA, we ask careful attention to the equity issues of access, and 
>a federal guarantee of access and availability.

  Oh my, it looks like the Socialists have grabbed onto the Internet
as their next great crusade. Well, Bruce, the Welfare State has
destroyed America's once-great Cities, and now you're setting
out to destroy one of the most important technologies of the 20th
Century. 

  Don't think for a minute we're going to let you get away with it this time.

  In case you haven't figured it out, a "federal guarantee of access"
means only that there are some people who are going to be forced, at
the point of a federal gun, to pay for your so-called "right" to
Internet access. What you're saying is that you have a right to
enslave someone. 

  If you choose to live on an island in the middle of the ocean with a 
small population, you can expect to pay a lot for high-tech services.

-- 
 Jawaid Bazyar              |   Like UNIX? Like your Apple IIGS? Then ask
 Procyon, Inc.              |   me about GNO/ME for the Apple IIgs!   
 bazyar@netcom.com          |   P.O Box 620334
 --Apple II Forever!--      |   Littleton, CO 80162-0334   (303) 781-3273
From jloh@futon.sfsu.edu  Fri Nov 18 17:18:23 1994
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From: Jonathan Loh <jloh@futon.sfsu.edu>
Message-Id: <9411182210.AA23009@futon.sfsu.edu>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:118] AVAIL digest 24
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 94 14:10:27 PST
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X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL10]

> 
> I'm a little confused about this whole superhighway thing.
> 
> I thought it was just political hot air from Dan Gore, I mean Al Quayle, I 
> mean, well, you know who I mean.
> 
> Why do we need the government to mess around in this at all?  Seems to me that 
	Why indeed?  Guess who started this superhighway?  It was the
government.  So in essence we are the intruders.

> the underlying thread is to get something for nothing.  Well, everything 
> costs, and it costs big.  If you get the government involved big time in 
> funding, it'll just be another entitlement to get cut off when the political 
> climate changes.  Look at Welfare and Medicare now!
	
	Well yes I agree with you everything does cost.  It's just the
cost of the Internet is hidden from you.  Unless you're paing for it
yourself.

> 
> Become a provider!  Give service away!  That's what we're doing here.  Use the
> income from those who _can_ pay to redistribute some connectivity to those who
> can't very well.
> 
	It's hard to start thinking in that mode unless you are
guaranteed something in return say Tax breaks or something.

> Come on, people, keep it human.  Don't suck us into the political machine.  
> The Internet is just another faceless medium for petty power in the eyes of 
> politicians.
> 
> - John R. Haggis   (johnr@johnr.sf.scruznet.com)
> 


-- 
Jonathan
jloh@futon.sfsu.edu 		
**** Please quote from this message when responding --- Thanks!
From "SFPL::NTIA_PUB"@DRANET.DRA.COM  Fri Nov 18 19:33:53 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 18:24:27 -0600 (CST)
From: San Francisco Public Libraray <"SFPL::NTIA_PUB"@DRANET.DRA.COM>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
X-Vmsmail-To: ADDRESS
Message-Id: <941118182427.20216603@DRANET.DRA.COM>
Subject: NTIA Public Comment

I do volunteer work for the poor in the teaching of computer
skills. with enough money, we can give access when we're open,
but even with that, we have an upper limit on volunteers, etc.
	
With the work that I have done teaching Internet, I suggest
the following as a minimu step to conserve money, volunteer
time and space.
	
o	Provide homeless shelters with online systems frozen into
	Netnews and email, or email and gopher. A 386 terminal
	running Linux, Xwindows and Netscape, and locked into 
	a user group such as email and gopher, etc., would
	permit defining the loest level of involvement. People
	need communication to represent themselves, and email for 
	that reason, as well as Netnews.
From: glidedw@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu <donald wilton>
From chage@rahul.net  Fri Nov 18 21:10:15 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 94 15:27:05 PST
From: chage@rahul.net (Carl Hage)
Message-Id: <9411182327.AA19968@slick.chage.com>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Re: Resale Surcharges by backbone providers

whitis@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU (Mark Whitis) writes:
: I am disturbed by a practice common among internet backbone providers
: at the national and regional level which creates an unnecessary
: impediment to the creation of affordable internet service for
: individuals and small businesses.  One of the stated goals of recent
: government actions to establish an information superhighway is to
: make networking availible to individuals and small to medium sized
: businesses; large corporations and universities can already afford
: networks.

Yes, I believe this is a very important problem which greatly restricts
competition from small providers. Here in the bay area, there is one
reseller (tlg.org) a co-op who in turn resells to other resellers, etc.
TLG only had 1 major provider to choose from (sprint.net) as the others do
not allow resale, and TLG pays substantially more (double?). The resale
prices through TLG or thier resellers are half the usual competition.

I believe that it would be in the best interest for the nation to
find a way so the major backbone providers (e.g. customers of the
government) do not restrict resale, or filter based on content.

: The excuses offered:
:    - Resellers of bandwidth are likely to require more complicated
:      routing...
Right, that is bogus.
 
:    - Resellers of bandwith are likely to utilize a greater percentage
:      of their bandwidth.

The issue is that a customer who uses near 100% of the bandwidth during
the day comsumes more resources than a typical customer, who might only
use only 10%. Individuals, e.g. those with some future high speed
connection, would like fast access but might only use .01% of the
bandwidth. Currently, all these customer types pay the same rate,
whether or not they are a large or small company, or a large or small
reseller.

The real solution is that the current system of flat rate based on the
maximum transfer rate must be changed. If there were a modest usage
fee (or the equivalent of a sliding scale based on utilization), then
the backbone providers would not be as reluctant to prohibit resellers.
Competition from resellers would also lower the prices from the major
companies. In theory, they should have some economies of scale and
could offer lower prices than a reseller in many cases.

Normally, there is a major objection to adding usage fees. The problem
is that the fees are high in comparison to the actual costs. A fair
way to determine usage fees would be to use the incremental cost to
expand the backbone capacity. You would pay a flat fee for the connection
and customer service, and usage fees would only cover a share of the
trunk lines to transport data and the routers that feed them. It
would not be appropriate to increase use fees to pay for a share
of the fixed costs (e.g. in PacBells rates, 50% of the fixed costs
are paid by use fees) since that does discourage expanded use of
the network.

The T3 backbones cost about $1/Mb-mile/month, so a 1.5Mb cross
country (3000miles) link at 100% use would cost about $4500/mo, which is
higher than the fee charged by the provider. Since the typical user
doesn't consume 100% of thier feed or have 100% of the traffic cross
the country, the providers can charge less.

A simple formula might be to assume use fees pay for expanded capacity
at 50% use during peak periods (e.g. 8 hour weekday). That works
out to be $83/GB for daytime transmission. It would be important to
charge more for high priority (videophone) traffic than for file
transfers, etc. which can operate in the background. As a reference
point, the equivalent long distance telephone at 50% discount is
$316/GB.
From chage@rahul.net  Fri Nov 18 21:10:19 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 94 15:48:22 PST
From: chage@rahul.net (Carl Hage)
Message-Id: <9411182348.AA19977@slick.chage.com>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Re: Cheap Public Access

sporing@cais.cais.com (Jsporing) writes:
: 
: > I live in rural Texas and work from home.  My phone bill for Internet 
: > access is over $100 every month and moves toward $200 on a good month.  
: > Texas has TENET for educators and the Trans-Texas Video Network which 
: > links many higher education campuses by T1.  However, I am seeing no 
: > action to serve people like me with toll-free service.  Frankly, I may be 
: > the only person in my county that uses Internet. 
: > 
: > How do we convince the government that it is cost effective to provide 
: > toll-free service to me and others like me in remote areas?  
: > 
: > Marilyn Korhonen
: 
: I believe that private access for users such as Marilyn will emerge.  As 
: the telecommunications markets expand, I assume that companies will, 
: either voluntarily or through regulations, offer access to the I-way to 
: less profitable areas, such as rural areas.
: 
: This may be done in co-ops much the way that small local telephone 
: companies operate.

In order to aviod long distance charges, an internet provider needs a POP
(bank of modems+router) in a local exchange, and then they would only
provide access for thier own service. The (near term) solution is for your
telco or even a co-op to put in a POP which could be shared by a number of
different providers. It would be important to be able to access multiple
services since not all users have the same needs, and competition will
lower prices.

A co-op might be able to install and operate a POP for less than a telco,
but how do you organize a co-op if you think you are the only user?
Perhaps you could convince your telco to include a flyer in thier mailings
explaining the service and possible benefits, and ask for a reply by
mail or phone. Do you think your telco would help you organize?

Is a better solution just to require the telcos to install and operate
POPs in sparsely populated areas that would not be cost effective
for a private company located elsewhere to operate?
From innd@virtconf.digex.net  Sat Nov 19 01:11:39 1994
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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 01:11:39 -0800
From: innd@virtconf.digex.net
Message-Id: <199411190911.BAA29187@virtconf.digex.net>
Reply-To: innd@virtconf.digex.net
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: UseNet-News

Path: virtconf!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ecn.bgu.edu!psuvax1!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.columbia.edu!bonjour.cc.columbia.edu!rh120
From: rh120@bonjour.cc.columbia.edu (Rhonda Hauben)
Newsgroups: alt.ntia.avail
Subject: Re: Thanks Al....
Date: 16 Nov 1994 20:53:30 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <3adrga$h33@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>
References: <Pine.3.89.9411160900.E27851-0100000@dcez.dcez.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bonjour-cddi.cc.columbia.edu

In article <Pine.3.89.9411160900.E27851-0100000@dcez.dcez.com>,
Don Evans  <avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov> wrote:
>Has anyone stopped to think just how much we owe to Al Gore and the
>current administration.

Where are we today?

The development of the Global Computer Network that makes
it possible to post to Usenet News and this newsgroup today
is the result of work by many computer pioneers for more than
25 years -- it isn't due to Al Gore.

It would be good if the current adminstration in Washington
were interested in knowing something of that history
so it could be built upon - instead of going in an entirely
different direction which can only backtrack on the gains that
have been made thus far.

But it would seem that the people concerned with going forward
would benefit from knowing that history despite the reluctance
of those in the current administration to build on the past.

>
>In 1989, then Senator Gore introduced NREN Legislation, setting the stage
>for the environment in which we now find ourselves.

The environment is one of a plenthora of new books in the 
bookstores on how "to make your fortune" off of the Net -
and no concern either in Washington or in the U.S. publishing
world with education as to what has been built so the next step
can be made.

Ronda Hauben

rh120@columbia.edu
or 
ronda@panix.com
--
see my .plan for the www location of "The Netizens and the Wonderful
World of the Net: An Anthology of Articles on the History and Impact
of the Net" and for an outline of the current paper I am working on.
From saholmes@ramp.com  Sat Nov 19 02:32:53 1994
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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 07:24:25 GMT
From: Steve Holmes <saholmes@ramp.com>
Message-Id: <199411190724.HAA19941@glock.ramp.com>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
In-reply-to: <199411190000.QAA25220@virtconf.digex.net> (innd@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov)
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:118] UseNet-News
Reply-to: saholmes@ramp.com

>  Oh my, it looks like the Socialists have grabbed onto the Internet
>as their next great crusade. Well, Bruce, the Welfare State has
>destroyed America's once-great Cities, and now you're setting
>out to destroy one of the most important technologies of the 20th
>Century. 
>
>  Don't think for a minute we're going to let you get away with it this time.
>
>  In case you haven't figured it out, a "federal guarantee of access"
>means only that there are some people who are going to be forced, at
>the point of a federal gun, to pay for your so-called "right" to
>Internet access. What you're saying is that you have a right to
>enslave someone. 
>
>  If you choose to live on an island in the middle of the ocean with a 
>small population, you can expect to pay a lot for high-tech services.

Well, I don't aggree with the concept of "guarenteeing access to the
internet to every man, woman, and child, but I do think the internet
should be kept affordable somehow.  For example, standards like
formats and protocoles should be kept open to the public - no
secret/proprietary stuff around here.  I like the idea of incentives -
possible tax breaks maybe? The one thing which is singularly
responsible for the internet being more easily accessable and
affordable is the springing up of little up-start companies providing
internet service to individuals at a fairly reasonable flat monthly
rate (something in the range of $15 to $25).  I suppose that this
trend is largely confined to large metropoliten areas where the
competition is greatest.

Like you said, about the island in the middle ocean, rural areas are
also subject to this problem; they do not injoy the affordable rates
that we in the cities have.  It's the old question, "How can we get a
good economy of scale and volume to an area with so few people?"

Actually, up till now, the government has had some fairly large stakes
in the internet left over from the old ARPAnet days; I just read
recently, that the government was "privatizing" the net in that the
national science foundation switch was sold to Sprint and that Sprint
was taking over that operation.
<Steve> Holmes
From vae@motiv.cogsci.msu.su  Sat Nov 19 06:23:04 1994
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          Fri, 18 Nov 1994 19:34:42 -0800
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Cc: redefus@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
References: <199411181124.DAA05983@virtconf.digex.net>
Message-Id: <AAI9Npku85@motiv.cogsci.msu.su>
Organization: Moscow State University, Psychology Dep.
From: Alexander Voiskounsky <vae@motiv.cogsci.msu.su>
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 94 19:34:42 -0800
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Return-Receipt-To: vae@motiv.cogsci.msu.su
Subject: Re: [AVAIL & REDEFUS]
Lines: 25

Hi, netters:
I was rather shortminded to subscribe to AVAIL & REDEFUS.
I was thinking I can save time to read non-numerous messages.
I'm glad I'm wrong. I can't follow the massive traffic of
discussions. Sometimes my English is too poor to grasp the
essense, sometimes I don't know the realities, legislature,
etc. Some themes I'm greatly pleased with. Say, with the
ExceLink short description by Alex Rapisanda.
I agree gladly with Larry Irving - thrilled with the volume
of traffic & quality of discussions. I am, too. Perhaps I'll
find more time later to read the messages more attentively.
I shall not unsubscribe, though.
The people in the 2nd & 3rd worlds are just now trying to
find our own ways to use the Internet facilities & pleasures.
I am interested in investigation of these ways, in teaching
& helping them in this kind of activity. Besides, my group
is working on bibliographic database construction and letting
the remote access to it. For several days only we got an IP
access to the WWW, we are not experienced yet to access. So
I use ordinary e-mail.
Good luck to all subscribers. I wish you success.
Alexander



From innd@virtconf.digex.net  Sat Nov 19 06:56:08 1994
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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 06:56:08 -0800
From: innd@virtconf.digex.net
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Reply-To: innd@virtconf.digex.net
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: UseNet-News

Newsgroups: alt.ntia.avail
Path: virtconf!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!murdoch!Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU!jdyer
From: jdyer@Hopper.ITC.Virginia.EDU (Jamie Dyer)
Subject: Internet Broadcasting Corp
Message-ID: <CzIIDo.96q@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU
Organization: University of Virginia
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 11:25:00 GMT
Lines: 25

 As a newcomer to the net, I don't feel I have much relevant to say. 
All this chatter about Info Superhiways strikes me as so much
political doubletalk. The hiway exists. But to drive on the damn thing
you need a car. Computers(macs or pcs, etc) are not items that someone
making 6 or 7 dollars an hour can easily obtain.
 So public access at libraries and schools seems to be the answer. And
folks(a lot of them, anyway) seem to expect the feds to pay for it. 
 I don't trust that the feds will be able to fork over my Social Security 
in 35 years, why should we trust them to educate our kids to become 
familiar with and maintain future tech?
 This problem needs to solved on a local level. Pay the feds to maintain 
the net(through taxes). At the local level, beg...steal...scrape to get
the equipment and $$ to get access. The best thing about this technology
is the decentralization of info/communication. Why look to the Federal Govt.
to help us with an issue regarding decentralizing?
 The day of the Feds is waning. We have to learn to be more self-sufficient
at the local level. 
 Information Superhiway, my ear. Information Stripmall, if we don't watch it.
 


--
 
  "Go ahead. Toin the dump over. I won't squawk."
                                 _Bogie
From ac174@freenet.carleton.ca  Sat Nov 19 10:01:14 1994
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From: ac174@freenet.carleton.ca (Rosaleen Dickson)
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Reply-To: ac174@freenet.carleton.ca

Unsubscribe Rosaleen Dickson


--
____________________________________________________________________________
Rosaleen Dickson       ac174@freenet.carleton.ca        Rosaleen@resudox.net
Director, National Capital Freenet     Moderator of NCF Announce and Seniors
---------------------------------------------------------------------------~
From brentw@freenet.scri.fsu.edu  Sat Nov 19 11:08:24 1994
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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 11:00:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Brent Wall <brentw@freenet.scri.fsu.edu>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9411191018.A17368-0100000@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

An early post to this group from an individual from the Anneberg NPR 
group suggested that, as a beginning, universal access, as defined from 
the consumer's and not the supplier's viewpoint, merely entails, at 
present, a phone line to every home.  The implicit definition of 
availability in the Leon County library Tallahassee Fre-Net grants adds 
one important dimension on top of the phone line notion.  It is the 
expansion to as many homes as possible of the communication and 
educational benefits of a community net over the phone lines.  Using a 
lowest common denominator approach, the local system is 286 accessable 
and is a menu driven interface.  We will be proposing shortly to the Leon 
County Board of County Commissioners an approach stolen from LINCT to 
reassign recycled computers to needy families who have received free 
training that is already offered by the library.  This takes these
families from the point of having the opportunity to have access to 
having it.

Accordingly, universal access is, here at least,: (1) a phone line, (2) a 
freenet that 
provides a base level of service (as most do)--commuication services 
(email, usenet), education services (gopher, card catalogue), and the 
like, and (3) an agressive program to distribute to the community at need 
recycled computers with training.

Brent Wall
Leon County Free-Net Project
From tdun@k12.ucs.umass.edu  Sat Nov 19 11:58:11 1994
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From: tdun@k12.ucs.umass.edu (Terry Dun (FCTS))
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Bye
Reply-To: tdun@k12.ucs.umass.edu



unsubscribe Terry Dun

--
============================================================================
Angus "Terry" Dun                             Voice: (413) 863-9561 Ext 60
Technical Director, UMassK12                  E-Mail:  tdun@k12.ucs.umass.edu
Computer Technology Instructor                Franklin County Technical School
From crb@well.sf.ca.us  Sat Nov 19 12:38:10 1994
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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 09:30:16 -0800
From: Colette Brooks <crb@well.sf.ca.us>
Message-Id: <199411191730.JAA19829@well.sf.ca.us>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: my 2$


I've been lurking for a few days now and wish to comment on a couple of remarks.
Thanks first to those who have                               [D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D made such informative contributions...

Mr. Witnov writes:
>Why are so many participants against unleashing American business (and its
ste[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[A[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[B[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[Dreotypical greed) in order to let the invisible hand lead us to the most
efficient use of resources?

Many of us are skeptical of that invisible hand.  There are some areas here
in Brooklyn where residents have no access to ATMs because banks have closed
branches (efficient use of resources, perhaps, but for whom?)  Would you wish
to live in a neighborhood with no banking services?  If access to ATMS is
limited, who can pretend that access to more costly technologies won't also
be limited?  

Mr. Bazyar writes:
>If you choose to live on an island in the middle of the ocean with a small
population, you can expect to pay a lot for high-tech services.

Well, lots of us live on those islands, some of them in our largest urban
areas.  And you don't have to be a Socialist to say so.  Much of our discussion
this week has been devoted not to costs per se but to the possible creation
of new profit centers (probably by those busy invisible hands).  And many of us
feel that the Infobahn                 [D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[Dis not primarily a private preserve but a national/world
resource which should be extended to all, for reasons already explored in
other posts this week.

My question:  can this conference be extended in some other arena?  Perhaps as
a newsgroup?  It would be most unfortunate to lose contact; w             [D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[ communication is
the best defense against isolation[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D          [D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D            [D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D              [D[D[D[D[D[D
From RICKYROD@aol.com  Sat Nov 19 13:36:01 1994
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From: RICKYROD@aol.com
Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com
	(1.38.193.5/16.2) id AA19808; Sat, 19 Nov 1994 13:27:41 -0500
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 13:27:41 -0500
Message-Id: <941119132737_2948187@aol.com>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:124] Re: UseNet-News

>>  Oh my, it looks like the Socialists have grabbed onto the Internet
>>as their next great crusade. Well, Bruce, the Welfare State has
>>destroyed America's once-great Cities, and now you're setting
>>out to destroy one of the most important technologies of the 20th
>>Century. 
>
>>  Don't think for a minute we're going to let you get away with it this
time.
>
>>  In case you haven't figured it out, a "federal guarantee of access"
>>means only that there are some people who are going to be forced, at
>>the point of a federal gun, to pay for your so-called "right" to
>>Internet access. What you're saying is that you have a right to
>>enslave someone. 
>
>>  If you choose to live on an island in the middle of the ocean with a 
>>small population, you can expect to pay a lot for high-tech services.

>Well, I don't aggree with the concept of "guarenteeing access >to the
>internet to every man, woman, and child, but I do think the internet
>should be kept affordable somehow.  For example, standards like
>formats and protocoles should be kept open to the public - no
>secret/proprietary stuff around here.  I like the idea of >incentives -
>possible tax breaks maybe? The one thing which is singularly
>responsible for the internet being more easily accessable and
>affordable is the springing up of little up-start companies >providing
>internet service to individuals at a fairly reasonable flat >monthly
>rate (something in the range of $15 to $25).  I suppose that >this
>trend is largely confined to large metropoliten areas where >the
>competition is greatest.

>Like you said, about the island in the middle ocean, rural areas are
>also subject to this problem; they do not injoy the affordable rates
>that we in the cities have.  It's the old question, "How can we get a
>good economy of scale and volume to an area with so few people?"

>Actually, up till now, the government has had some fairly large stakes
>in the internet left over from the old ARPAnet days; I just read
>recently, that the government was "privatizing" the net in that the
>national science foundation switch was sold to Sprint and that Sprint
>was taking over that operation.
><Steve> Holmes

Guaranteed access is another double edged sword.  The feds might just do well
at this relative to other ventures they have undertaken.  The main reason for
this is that they have an infrastructure in existance today and a wealth of
knowledge to draw on.  I can tell you though from living in the Washington
D.C. area all my life, as a government contractor and taxpayer, this desire
for "universal access" is in fact in reality another attempt at federal
government expansion.  A bureaucrat in a particular area of the government
lives to expand funding oppotunities and keep funding coming in. The
universal access area is real funding opportunity for Federal Government to
expand budgets or keep them where they are.  This would create growth in many
federal agencies in the guise of following a federal mandate and wind up
costing everyone more,  and would also allow for Federal intrusion to enforce
the law down to the local level.  The information superhighway access seems
to be fairly grass roots oriented now and if there was enough of a public
outcry for univeral access, then the question should be addressed.  But even
if there was an outcry, why should the Federal Government address this
question or attempt to provide access?  Is there a desire to make public
access to information services equal? Technology may someday make this happen
but it will be because of the open nature of the growth of the economy and
consumer demand in the area of information technology. If the Feds intrude
into this fertile greenhouse of growth to demand universal access then this
growth will be uprooted and changed.  There is no place in a Democratic
government for trying to create public demand for access to services.   Let
the economy work its magic and let individuals in rural areas or those who
cannot get access figure out the solutions to this problem (if there really
is one) by themselves through individual initiative. Let the private sector
economy provide solutions.

Ricky 

From advertise@interact.us.com  Sat Nov 19 13:50:40 1994
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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 10:42:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Saundra Knowles <advertise@interact.us.com>
Subject: Virtual Valley Universal Access
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9411190940.A10288-0100000@bolero>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 Virtual Valley Community Network (VVCN) is a newly launched San Jose, 
 California enterprise providing universal access/free online time to 
 virtually everyone with a PC or Mac, standard communications software and a 
 basic modem.  VVCN features a whimsical graphical interface that is very
 helpful to novice users. 

 Launched on October, the Virtual Valley Community Network links 
 citizens, schools, government and business.  Virtual Valley is a place for 
 people to easily participate in the exchange of neighborly messages, ideas 
 and information.  It is a model community information service that offers
 electronic communication with elected public officials, provides outreach
 and phone numbers for national and local coalitions, organizations and
 agencies, public meeting agendas and minutes. It offers free postings for
 community organizations (i.e. foodbanks, emergency housing, etc.)  and
 conferences for schools, universities and associations.  

 Virtual Valley has numeous local newspapers online and offers Business, 
 Arts, Entertainment and Dining information, calenders of events and 
 classified advertising.  

 Virtual Valley provides local "conference" areas and "chat" rooms of 
 interest to a wide variety of diverse groups in the Greater South Bay 
 Area.  25 min. of online time, per day, 24 hrs/day, every day of the 
 year, is free.  VV also offers a very affordable $45.00/yr membership
 that includes access to the Internet, numerous Internet Usenet
 groups and conferences as well as global email and other services.


 Saundra Knowles
 Information Specialist
 saund@interact.us.com
 voice:408-356-5303
From advertise@interact.us.com  Sat Nov 19 14:08:24 1994
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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 11:00:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Saundra Knowles <advertise@interact.us.com>
Subject: Virtual Valley Universal Access
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9411191051.D10288-0100000@bolero>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII



 Virtual Valley Community Network (VVCN) is a newly launched San Jose, 
 California enterprise providing universal access/free online time to 
 virtually everyone with a PC or Mac, standard communications software and a 
 basic modem.  VVCN features a whimsical graphical interface that is very
 helpful to novice users. 

 Launched on October 26th, the Virtual Valley Community Network links 
 citizens, schools, government and business.  Virtual Valley is a place for 
 people to easily participate in the exchange of neighborly messages, ideas 
 and information.  It is a model community information service that offers
 electronic communication with elected public officials, provides outreach
 and phone numbers for national and local coalitions, organizations and
 agencies, public meeting agendas and minutes. It offers free postings for
 community organizations (i.e. foodbanks, emergency housing, etc.)  and
 conferences for schools, universities and associations.  

 Virtual Valley has numerous local newspapers online and offers Business, 
 Arts, Entertainment and Dining information, calenders of events and 
 classified advertising.  

 Virtual Valley provides local "conference" areas and "chat" rooms of 
 interest to a wide variety of diverse groups in the Greater South Bay 
 Area.  25 min. of online time, per day, 24 hrs/day, every day of the 
 year, is free.  VV also offers a very affordable $45.00/yr membership
 that includes access to the Internet, numerous Internet Usenet
 groups and conferences as well as global email and other services.


 Saundra Knowles
 Information Specialist
 saund@interact.us.com
 voice:408-356-5303


From <@UTARLVM1.UTA.EDU:VANBROCKLIN@library.uta.edu>  Sat Nov 19 15:58:48 1994
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From: "Jackie Van Brocklin" <VANBROCKLIN@library.uta.edu>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Date:          Sat, 19 Nov 1994 14:53:20 CST
Subject:       info participation
Priority: normal
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22

Is it too late to participate in this program?  I didn't know if
this week's national program included Saturdays.....

Jackie VanBrocklin
vanbrocklin@library.uta.edu
From sylviac@netcom.com  Sat Nov 19 16:05:25 1994
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From: sylviac@netcom.com (Sylvia Caras)
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Subject: Attention List Owner
To: opnacces@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 12:57:52 -0800 (PST)
Cc: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
In-Reply-To: <199411190912.BAA29253@virtconf.digex.net> from "opnacces@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov" at Nov 19, 94 01:12:05 am
Organization: Mood Matters 
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As a last resort I am posting this to the list.

The ways I know to reach an administrator are bouncing:
listname-owner and listname-request and root.

I do not want to receive this digest format.  I am unable to scan
my mail.  All the subject lines have been obscured.  I am forced
to actually see each post instead of skimming subjects.  

Actually, so far I am just deleting everything.

Please reset me to the way I originally subscribed so that I
receive postings from participants in a normal way with the
posters subject line.


From innd@virtconf.digex.net  Sat Nov 19 18:00:46 1994
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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 18:00:46 -0800
From: innd@virtconf.digex.net
Message-Id: <199411200200.SAA29801@virtconf.digex.net>
Reply-To: innd@virtconf.digex.net
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: UseNet-News

Path: virtconf!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!uhog.mit.edu!sgiblab!nbn!nic.scruz.net!boing.resort.com!banshee
From: banshee@boing.resort.com (John Vinopal)
Newsgroups: alt.ntia.avail
Subject: Re: U.S. OUT OF MY COMPUTER
Date: 19 Nov 1994 22:24:36 GMT
Organization: scruz-net
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <3altv4$ltg@nic.scruz.net>
References: <haggis.331.0031E811@netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: resort.com
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #0 (NOV)

The kind of thing the net doesn't need:

Pac BEll granting 500K to Barrnet to figure out how to sell
ISDN to the masses.  

-- 
The Wailer at the Gates of Dawn              | banshee@resort.com          |
Just who ARE you calling a FROOFROO Head?    |                             |
DoD#0667  "Just a friend of the beast."      | http://resort.com/~banshee/ |
2,3,5,7,13,17,19,31,61,89,107,127,521,607....|                             |
From edb1@Ra.MsState.Edu  Sat Nov 19 23:17:18 1994
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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 22:09:22 -0600 (CST)
From: Ellen Davis Burnham <edb1@Ra.MsState.Edu>
X-Sender: edb1@Isis.MsState.Edu
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
cc: Multiple recipients of list <avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:124] AVAIL digest 29
In-Reply-To: <199411191113.DAA06817@virtconf.digex.net>
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------~~
Ellen Davis Burnham                      INTERNET:  edb1.@ra.msstate.edu
Rt. 2 Box 63A                            HOME NUMBER:  601-447-3463
Okolona, MS  38860                       +++++LIVE LONG & PROSPER 
(YA'LL)++++ {Graduate Student at MSU}
---------------------------------------------------------------------------~~

On Sat, 19 Nov 1994 avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov wrote:

> 			    AVAIL Digest 29
> 
> Topics covered in this issue include:
> 
>   1) Re: [AVAIL:118] UseNet-News
> 	by Steve Holmes <saholmes@ramp.com>
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 07:24:25 GMT
> From: Steve Holmes <saholmes@ramp.com>
> To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
> Subject: Re: [AVAIL:118] UseNet-News
> Message-ID: <199411190724.HAA19941@glock.ramp.com>
> 
> Well, I don't aggree with the concept of "guarenteeing access to the
> internet to every man, woman, and child, 

This whole segment of the conference is about "Availability and 
Affordability" to all NOT just some that live in a largely populated area.
People in Mississippi NEED the Internet just like everyone, probably more 
so than people who live in large areas with ready access to libraries or 
any form of research. Should we teach just **SOME** of our children to 
read, maybe just a few should learn Algebra, and heaven knows no one 
needs to know grammar rules. We can't pick and choose who is allowed access
we live in a democratic society that says everyone is equal and should 
receive equal access to schooling among other inalienable rights.

The rural area should be addressed first because we have such a hard time 
to find access (affordable access). If you could just go into a school 
one day and help students who are struggling to find the needed 12 
sources for a research paper, students who know what they need is out 
there SOMEWHERE if only they had access to it.

YES, WE MUST PROVIDE INTERNET ACCESS TO **EVERYONE**, not just to those
who are easy to put on-line. I always tell my students to do the hard part
of the test first and the rest will be a breeze. Vice-President Al Gore
knows this, he's from just above us (MS) and President Clinton lives next
to us.  Yes we have some large cities but the majority of Southern people
live in what city people term as "rural" areas. Just because we chose to
live where things are slower and our children safer does not mean we
want less schooling or less technology. We actually need more.
  
> affordable is the springing up of little up-start companies providing
> internet service to individuals at a fairly reasonable flat monthly
> rate (something in the range of $15 to $25).  I suppose that this
> trend is largely confined to large metropoliten areas where the
> competition is greatest.

> Like you said, about the island in the middle ocean, rural areas are
> also subject to this problem; they do not injoy the affordable rates
> that we in the cities have.  It's the old question, "How can we get a
> good economy of scale and volume to an area with so few people?"

> <Steve> Holmes

The competition may be greater in larger cities BUT the need is not. I 
don't mean to berate anyone but if you could only see first hand the 
great need in our schools you would understand. I teach in a school that 
has only 3700 books total in the library. Our situation is extreme because 
the school burned a couple of years ago. I try to help the students by 
hunting for needed items on the Internet. Until I  began teaching there 
this year *ONLY* one student knew about the Superhighway. My third grade 
daughter, Holladay, knew more than these high school students! She has 
explained e-mail to her classmates because when the *Weekly Reader* 
mentioned the subject no one including the teacher knew what they were 
discussing. I'm proud of Holladay and my other children that do know of 
this great emerging technology but what about the children who have parents 
that have never heard of the Internet either. We have to start somewhere and 
I believe the population of America as a whole is as good a place to begin 
as any.

"Ellen"
(I'm through preaching, sorry!)

From blarkin@cpcug.org  Sat Nov 19 23:22:24 1994
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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 23:14:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Brian Larkin <blarkin@cpcug.org>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:113] AVAIL digest 21
In-Reply-To: <199411181856.KAA02263@virtconf.digex.net>
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There have been many eloquent and passionate opinions expressed here 
regarding the potential role of public libraries and schools in providing 
access to the Internet.  One major difficulty is that the hours during 
which such institutions are available to the public are precisely those 
hours when the net is already busiest.  Imagine 30,000,000 more daily 
users during peak hours!
From mkessel@world.std.com  Sun Nov 20 00:41:33 1994
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From: mkessel@world.std.com (Martin Kessel)
Message-Id: <199411200533.AA28596@world.std.com>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Re: Universal access

On Thu, 17 Nov 94 Chris Silker wrote:

> I think this conference was accessible to more than just "elite 
> technocrats."  I, for instance, am a graduate student at the U of MN.  I 
> have access because everyone who attends the University has access, and
> can apply their access via numerous computer labs that are open to all 
> students.

I hate to disillusion you, but the university community is among the 
technological elite.  Until recently university faculty and students were 
the only ones with access to the Internet, and are still the only ones with 
free access.  Moreover, the 20 percent of American adults who are college 
graduates earn 67 percent more than high schools graduates.  Because of 
their income and their academic experience, they are far more likely to own 
computers and to participate in the Internet.  Obviously, the vast majority 
of us participating in this conference fall into this category.

Will the rest of the population remain behind?  The biggest issue is 
education.  A basic part of every public school curriculum must include 
computer literacy, and this must include how to access online information.

Second the information must be made easier to find.  Minitel has been raised 
in this discussion.  When I was in Paris, I found a public Minitel terminal 
and, even with poor understanding of French, was able to obtain a telephone 
number I wanted instantly.  And this was five years ago -- four years before 
I even knew about the Internet.

Basic rates must be kept low.  Currently Boston residents can obtain basic 
Internet access for a very reasonable $5 per month.  However, phone rates 
were once this low also.  Under the buzzword of "competition," phone rates 
were lowered for large corporate users and long distance customers, while 
rising substantially for basic local service.  (I can't find actual records, 
but I recall that in the early '80s the lowest cost phone service was well 
under $5 vs. $10.92 today.)  If the marketplace alone prevails, then the 
Information Infrastructure will also cater itself exclusively to large 
corporations and well-to-do households.

Finally, for those who do not have computers or even telephones, there must 
be publicly accessible sites in libraries and other community sites.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Kessel                   mkessel@world.std.com
34 Cottonwood Road
Wellesley MA 02181
From innd@virtconf.digex.net  Sun Nov 20 11:16:56 1994
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Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 11:16:56 -0800
From: innd@virtconf.digex.net
Message-Id: <199411201916.LAA29589@virtconf.digex.net>
Reply-To: innd@virtconf.digex.net
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: UseNet-News

Newsgroups: alt.ntia.avail,alt.config,alt.usenet.kooks
Path: virtconf!agate!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!uhog.mit.edu!news.kei.com!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!bcohen
From: bcohen@cs.buffalo.edu (Bram Cohen)
Subject: Re: UseNet-News
Message-ID: <CzKq3r.FpF@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Sender: nntp@acsu.buffalo.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: gagarin.cs.buffalo.edu
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Computer Science
References: <199411181031.CAA02309@virtconf.digex.net>
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 16:07:02 GMT
Lines: 73

This is the exact article - a repost of a previous article, complete 
with header, and nothing new added. Someone could definitely use 
a clue.

In article <199411181031.CAA02309@virtconf.digex.net>,
 <avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov> wrote:
>Newsgroups: alt.ntia.avail
>Path: virtconf!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!uhog.mit.edu!sgiblab!nbn!nic.scruz.net!cruzio!henro
>From: henro@cruzio.com
>Subject: Interactive Video Conference
>Reply-To: henro@cruzio.com
>Organization: Cruzio Community Networking System, Santa Cruz, CA
>Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 05:01:22 GMT
>Message-ID: <CzG5yJ.F9C@cruzio.com>
>Keywords: Sarajevo, Tokyo, Moscow, Paris, Santa Cruz
>Sender: henro@cruzio.com (Don Weiss)
>Lines: 53
>
>
>Talk about <<syncronicity>> -- I was browsing the web and found 
>that this week, a lot of experts in the field are discussing 
>what my NGO is doing. We are putting on an internation interactive 
>video conference to Cyber-Liberate Sarajevo. Here's the short 
>version of our press release. Any of you who are interested, 
>please e-mail me at  henro@cruzio.com   or, by tomorrow, at our 
>group's new domain   info@plaza.org    I suspect a lot of you 
>reading this will be VERY interest in this application.
>
>UNESCO SANCTIONS <<CYBER-LIBERATION>> OF SARAJEVO
>Santa Cruz, CA (November 17, 1994) -- UNESCO officials and citizens 
>of Tokyo, Moscow, Paris and Santa Cruz will join together on 
>Saturday, November 19, to demonstrate interactive video technology 
>that organizers will use for the <<Cyber-Liberation of Sarajevo>> the 
>end of its intellectual blockade.
>
>Speaking from Tokyo, Suada Kapic (SWA-da KAH-pich), Artistic 
>Director of the Sarajevo Arts Festival and founder of the Museum 
>of Survival in Sarajevo, will call for the establishment of an 
>Interactive Plaza in Sarajevo linked with a network of similar 
>plazas world-wide. 
>
>Speaking from Paris, UNESCO Assistant Director-General Henrikas 
>Yushkiavitchus will stress that he supports this <<Cyber-Liberation>> 
>project.
>
>The moderator of the session, Dr. Paul Lee, will speak from Santa 
>Cruz with his colleage Prof. Paul Ricoeur, in Paris, on the theme 
>of an <<economy of gift.>> They will challenge the international 
>community to give an Interactive Plaza to Sarajevo.
>
>Joseph Goldin, the Russian visionary behind this project, will 
>say that his Global Interactive Plaza Foundation will join with 
>Mr. Yushkiavitchus and request that the United Nations contribute 
>one percent of its peacekeeping military budget to establish 
>Interactive Plazas in conflict areas worldwide. This will be 
>in keeping with the UNESCO goal of moving from Peace Keeping 
>to Peace Building.
>
>The forum will announce a New Year's Eve deadline for installation 
>of the interactive plaza in Sarajevo. By linking cities on five 
>continents with Sarajevo, New Year's Eve will become a truly 
>global celebration of the Cyber-Liberation of the city under 
>siege.
>
>
>Date: 		November 19, 1994
>Time: 	5:00 a.m. to   6:30 a.m. Pacific Standard Time.
>
>For more information, contact:
>Don Weiss, Executive Secretary, Global Interactive Plaza Foundation
>phone/fax 408-423-5006


From LucyCo@aol.com  Sun Nov 20 15:18:22 1994
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From: LucyCo@aol.com
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	(1.38.193.5/16.2) id AA26126; Sun, 20 Nov 1994 15:09:31 -0500
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 15:09:31 -0500
Message-Id: <941120150557_3543309@aol.com>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Cc: edb@ra.msstate.edu
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:137] AVAIL digest 37

Hearing the real-life experiences of people like Ellen Davis Burnham, who
wrote of introducing school children in rural Mississippi to the Internet --
is one of the best aspects of this conference.   Helps ward off the tendency
to discuss concepts such as "availability" as though they were theoretical
only.  Keep up the good work, Ellen -- and don't apologize for your
"preaching."
Lucy Copass (lucyco@scn.org) 
From innd@virtconf.digex.net  Sun Nov 20 16:11:47 1994
Received: (from news@localhost) by virtconf.digex.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA16566 for avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov; Sun, 20 Nov 1994 16:11:47 -0800
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 16:11:47 -0800
From: innd@virtconf.digex.net
Message-Id: <199411210011.QAA16566@virtconf.digex.net>
Reply-To: innd@virtconf.digex.net
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: UseNet-News

Newsgroups: alt.ntia.avail
Path: virtconf!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!bazyar
From: bazyar@netcom.com (Jawaid Bazyar)
Subject: Re: U.S. OUT OF MY COMPUTER
Message-ID: <bazyarCzL2tF.MAJ@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <haggis.331.0031E811@netcom.com> <3altv4$ltg@nic.scruz.net>
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 20:41:39 GMT
Lines: 14

banshee@boing.resort.com (John Vinopal) writes:

>The kind of thing the net doesn't need:

>Pac BEll granting 500K to Barrnet to figure out how to sell
>ISDN to the masses.  

  Why not? What's wrong with that?

-- 
 Jawaid Bazyar              |   Like UNIX? Like your Apple IIGS? Then ask
 Procyon, Inc.              |   me about GNO/ME for the Apple IIgs!   
 bazyar@netcom.com          |   P.O Box 620334
 --Apple II Forever!--      |   Littleton, CO 80162-0334   (303) 781-3273
From djhorner@clover.cleaf.com  Mon Nov 21 00:48:57 1994
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	by clover.cleaf.com  
	id m0r9Rae-000AhoC; Sun, 20 Nov 94 23:47 CST
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 23:47:00 -0600 (CST)
From: Don Horner <djhorner@clover.cleaf.com>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: helpful INTERNET addresses
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.90.941120233658.9553B-100000@clover.cleaf.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I am located in Texarkana, Arkansas (USA).  I am involved in a medical 
related support group and, among other things, wish to use the INTERNET 
to find helpful information for our group, keep up with medical 
breakthroughs in research, and just be a general resourse for the group.
If any one knows of some helpful INTERNET addresses, along with a brief 
explaination of how that address can be of assistance, I would greatly 
appreciate it if that person would E-mail me some information about it.
I am fairly new to the INTERNET, but am trying to learn as hard and as 
fast as I can.  As I said, our group is, in general, medically related.
I thank you in advance for any time and trouble you may go to to respond 
to this request.  So do all people in our group.

						Donald J. Horner

From 74543.720@compuserve.com  Mon Nov 21 01:44:54 1994
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Date: 21 Nov 94 01:34:07 EST
From: Stan Witnov <74543.720@compuserve.com>
To: "avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov" <avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov>
Subject: REPLY TO THOTS FROM MARTIN KESSEL
Message-ID: <941121063406_74543.720_EHH126-1@CompuServe.COM>


I picked up this comment on Sunday which I thought was great:


>I hate to disillusion you, but the university community is among the 
>technological elite.  Until recently university faculty and students >were 
>the only ones with access to the Internet, and are still the only ones >with 
>free access.  Moreover, the 20 percent of American adults who are >college 
>graduates earn 67 percent more than high schools graduates.  Because >of 
>their income and their academic experience, they are far more likely >to own 
>computers and to participate in the Internet.  Obviously, the vast >majority 
>of us participating in this conference fall into this category.

>Will the rest of the population remain behind?.....

        (contributed by:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Kessel                   mkessel@world.std.com
34 Cottonwood Road
Wellesley MA 02181

Ithink that Martin is particularly right here; however, I'm not sure this is a
problem!  As those of us risk money and time to educate ourselves into a
technological elite the costs for hardware and access will go down (my
opinion--and evidenced in many other areas e.g, audio and tv).  And further, the
accessability will dramatically improve as business people lure (create
incentives) consumers into their market.

  When I used to connect to the "Source" on my Apple II (64K) at 300 baud it was
a real hassle.  I feel blessed that software and hardware has improved.
Improved because people want to sell things and make MONEY!
        I believe this has been great for me and also--a benefit to all of us.
In the beginning of automobiles only the rich could afford them.  Look what
happened: they defined our (to a large extent)  current society.  And buses and
trollies became an obvious outgrowth for those that couldn't afford a car.  I
see the electronic evolution proceeding in a similar fashion: there will always
be a "cutting edge" that costs more and requires some skill to access.

I hope a democracy doesn't require that we be stupid about limiting ourselves
until we ALL can move forward!

                                         Stan Witnov  



From ac174@freenet.carleton.ca  Mon Nov 21 07:08:05 1994
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From: ac174@freenet.carleton.ca (Rosaleen Dickson)
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:137] AVAIL digest 37
Reply-To: ac174@freenet.carleton.ca

If anyone can help me to get UNSUBSCRIBED from this group I would greatly
appreciate it.
Thank you


--
____________________________________________________________________________
Rosaleen Dickson       ac174@freenet.carleton.ca        Rosaleen@resudox.net
Director, National Capital Freenet     Moderator of NCF Announce and Seniors
---------------------------------------------------------------------------~
From twigs@sils.umich.edu  Mon Nov 21 08:12:31 1994
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It seems to me that we need to consider cooperative efforts to solve this 
apparent dilema of lack of access and uncertainly of availability.  I 
left my job in a small, rural library in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan 
to get my Master's Degree at the School of Information and Library 
Studies at the University of Michigan...and thus, my access and 
participation in this conference!  

The University of Michigan is working on a project linking our library 
school with community libraries to train the professionals in the field 
to use internet technologies.  This pilot project has GREAT implications 
and potential...why not build on what is already in place...Make a 
commitment sometime this week to show one other person who doesn't know 
anything how to do just one thing on interent...who know 

From BMSLIB@MITVMA.MIT.EDU  Mon Nov 21 10:11:26 1994
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Date:         Mon, 21 Nov 94 09:10:21 EST
From: "W. Curtiss Priest" <BMSLIB@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: [REDEFUS:189] REDEFUS digest 29
To: NTIA discussion on Universal Service
 <redefus@VIRTCONF.NTIA.DOC.GOV>,
        NTIA Forum on Availability and Cost <AVAIL@VIRTCONF.NTIA.DOC.GOV>
In-Reply-To:  Your message of Fri, 18 Nov 1994 22:47:35 -0800

I have seen several postings here and on the avail forum regarding
a concern about government influence becoming government control.

It is very important, I believe, for this administration to see
two distinct roles for government.

1.  Government should supply/support activities where there are
public goods (public information) and when the benefits of this
support exceeds the cost to we taxpayers.

2.  Government should protect interests of users and providers of
information services.  This includes areas of privacy, wiretapping,
standards, and balancing concerns for intellectual property.

Further, I believe that important forums such as this one can only
provide part of the answer.  There is no substitute for careful
public policy analysis, where the information from this forum and
other sources is analyzed with regard to many criteria including
cost/benefit ratios, affected populations, spin-off effects, etc.

A government (based on point #1) might decide to provide a minimum
service level (such as France's Minitel system) or, by analysis,
it may decide to support leveraging activities such as supporting
nonprofits that provide information to constituencies.  I am
thinking of the Center for Media Education, The Center for Strategic
Communications, the Center for Media Values, and our own Center.

What I do not see is any part of the current federal government engaged
in thoughtful analysis of where these critical leveraging points are.

It is not enough to convene a council of 31 (mainly business people)
and it is not enough to simply solicit input from citizens from
this forum and the NTIA meetings held in various cities around the
country.

These inputs are important and I have seen many useful ideas on
these list discussions.

We may not be smart enough to know what information highway we are
building, but we are smart enough to identify key ways to leverage
those people, in the public sector, who are bringing needed leadership
and viewpoints to get the highway built.

In a corporation the management and leadership comes from upper
management and the board, in tune with the marketplace.  In the
public 'management' and leadership comes from the interplay of
traditional public nonprofits such as schools and libraries, with
less traditional public nonprofits such as our own.

I see this government of ours confusing the roles of private business
people who are guided, almost entirely, by profit with the role of
people like Ken Komoski, Ex. Dir. of the Educational Products Information
Exchange, who has provided consumer oriented information about
educational materials and softwares for the last 26 years.

This month that Institution cannot even pay the 3 staff people critical
to collecting the information they provide to 10 lead states and others!
The director has not been salaried for over five years.

Yet, out of a passion of commitment and concern for providing information
needed to make informed decisions, that Institute carries on!

When the director approached people in the White house about finding
support, one person asked -- if the information is valuable, why aren't
you able to see it on the Internet?

So many reasons.  We lack pay mechanisms on the Internet.  Information
useful for procuring software is needed by teachers and administrators
who cannot pay $129 for the information on CD-ROM because of budget
cuts.  The value to society of information about software and reviews
from 50 magazines is underappreciated and the herd instinct causes
a feeding frenzy over some 20-30 products that are continually written
up in popular computer magazines, as the other 16,000 products are
mostly ignored.

So I am really pleading with this administration to look at the history
of nonprofits.  Talk to Howard Gardner about what importance the
Carnegie Foundation has been to education.  Read "Refections on the nonprofit
Sector in the Post-Liberal Era" by Peter Dobkin Hall (Yale University,
Institution for Social and Policy Studies, Program on Nonprofit
Organizations), PHILANTHROPY AND AMERICAN SOCIETIES edited by Jack Salzman.

What you will find it that nonprofits listen to "voice" -- constituents
and provide a commitment to solving public problems.  That they
are highly dependent on federal funds.  And they are one of the critical
ways to provide solutions for accessibility and universal services.

And remember, the less traditional the nonprofit cause, the harder it
is for a nonprofit to survive!  The United Way or AARP are heavily
supported, but these instutions do not usually share these funds
with a vanguard nonprofit.  In 1988 we felt fortunate to get all of
$5000 from AARP to study the possibilities of distance learning for
older Americans.  But we were unsuccessful in convincing AARP that
they had a role in helping shape that future!  They mainly wanted to
inform their members of what the business sector would be providing.

We are not suggesting that this administration support any nonprofit
that hangs out their shingle, but to listen better to understand
what various nonprofits can provide in the development of our mutual
information future -- and leverage! their activities in assuring
accessibility and universal service.

_______________________________________________________________________________
|               W. Curtiss Priest, Ph.D.             *********************** |
|      Center for Information, Technology, & Society *  Improving humanity * |
|                                                    *  through technology * |
|                  466 Pleasant Street               *********************** |
|                Melrose, MA  02176-4522                                     |
|                  Voice: 617-662-4044     Gopher to our publications:       |
|                   Fax: 617-662-6882      GOPHER.STD.COM (under nonprofits) |
_____________________________________________________________________________|
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To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov

SUBSCRIBE AVAIL
From BHARRIS@ntia.doc.gov  Mon Nov 21 16:11:09 1994
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        avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject:  Interim Summary for Availability List


------------------- sumavail follows --------------------
Summary of the Affordability and Availability Conference

Hosts:
1. Eli Noam, Columbia University Business School, "How to Pay for Universal Service in Telecommunications Under Competition:  Reforming the Financial Support System for
Universal Service In Telecommunications"

Key points:

Noam explains that the current universal service system is cumbersome and unable to function well in a competitive environment. He proposes a "net transmission account system" that ensures that all carriers - local, long-distance and mobile - contribute proportionally to the maintenance of universal service. Administrated by an independent accounting firm, the system debits all carriers by a fixed percentage and then provides cerdits based on actual contributions to universal service. The system guarantees that newcomers pay their fair share, and that all customers, including those who are subsidized, are able to choose among carriers through a "virtual voucher" plan. The system does not distort costs or incentives and provides easy and reliable accounting.

2. Dean J. Miller, Chair, National Association of Regulatory Utility Commissioners Committee on Communications, "Affordability and Availability of Universal Service"

Key points: The old system of universal service was kept in place through regulated monopolies that were protected by state governments. The states and the FCC should create standards for universal service, and allow for expansion of the basic package as information technologies advance. Interstate providers should pay for universal service, and states should continue to develop their own policies so long as basic federal mandates are satisfied. Advanced telecommunications services should not be included in the definition of universal service at this point. Universal service for "plain old telephone service" has not been achieved, and less than 73% of households in the lowest income category (under $5000 annual income) have access today. Traditional programs such as the FCC's Lifeline and Linkup must continue. Market forces should drive technology deployment and technical standards.

Discussion on the list:

Bruce Potter of the Island Resources Foundation:

States do need supremacy of authority to ensure universal service. However the real problems faced by small, geographically isolated areas such as the US Virgin Islands, is extreme vulnerability to local monopolies. Until the late 1970's, the federal government had exercised no control over the extortionate rates then being charged by the Territory's monopoly long distance carrier, which were four to five times greater per mile than long distance tariffs in the continental United States. The Internet's resources are particularly precious to residents of island territories. The territories are not naive in insisting that the information infrastructure must accomodate both access and low rates. Without both, the territories will receive no benefit and will in fact find their needs increasingly marginalized.

General summary:
Several people expressed concern that the development of the NII has focussed on business interests and economic development rather than on ensuring access for all Americans. The theme the economic development will not by itself bring universal service to reality surfaced repeatedly.

Robert Jacobson presented a detailed history of California's Universal Telephone Service Act which is being considered a model for national efforts. Poor citizens were having significant problems affording telephone service, and a law was put into effect allowing a reduced LifeLine service at very low cost that limited the number of calls per month. The service, paid for by long- diatnce service providers,  has been successful in avoiding abuse - fewer than five percent of its subscribers earn more than the poverty line. Providers and consumers have been satisfied with the scheme. Similar programs should be made available to residents of other states.

Carl Hage described in detail the differences in Internet access costs depending on organization size. He estimates that a 1000-person company pays $4 per person per month for full access, and each user there is able to retrieve a 100 page document in half a second. A 100-person company pays $5 per month and the same document requires 6 sec; a single person company  pays between 100 and 200 dollars and requires  56 seconds. Also larger companies can offer better network services. Currently, two dedicated telephone lines plus one shared line is used for modem access, whereas a single shared line could be used. The telephone companies offer only "connection oriented" service rather than the "packet oriented" service used for computer communication. A message which takes three minutes to read consumes 5000 times as much network resources in the connection oriented telephone switch as would be required to transmit via a packet oriented switching technology. Since the telephone companies do not provide modem access or low cost packet switched service, internet access costs rise. Local daytime telephone costs $21 per gigabyte of information, which is far lower than the costs required for internet access. For example, Prodigy's internet mail costs $16,667 per gigabyte and Pacific Bell's packet data service costs $6,400 per gigabyte.
   
The Internet and the Global Computer Network are providing a very important means for the people of our society to have an ability to speak for themselves and to fight their own
battles to better the society.

If the Clinton Administration had been interested in the history and development of the Net, one wonders if they would have rushed to place the NII committee in the U.S. Dept of Commerce.

I want to see cheap public access to the Internet, and other informational services. 

If this isn't something 'good' that government can do for the people relatively inexpensively... I don't know what is. 

One issue is the question of trans-national or international use of, for example, 
the Internet. 

Curtiss Priest introduced LINCT (Learning and Information Network for Community Telecomputing). LINCT is a not-for-profit coalition of socially-concerned organizations --
working with affiliated businesses and local governments, libraries, schools, and social services-- to help communities achieve universal, equitable access to integrated, community -wide electronic information and learning services. Other LINCT programs being developed include improving home-school-social agency communications, primary health and crime prevention, online homework mentoring, and the online operation of community-based "time-dollar" exchanges  linked to at-home, work-related training. 


I'l like to hear more from the Oregon edge of the world.  Being from a small, rural library in the Upper Penisula of Michigan, with a very small tax base...faced with geographical isolation and no clout...how do we get our voices heard and assure our partrons equal and universal access to these new and wonderful services...we have no local nodes...every hook up is a long distance call.  What are you doing over there?

Bringing technology that's both powerful and unusable does no one any good --  2 *BIG* problems with the Internet right now are the lack of a consistent, usable interface, and the TOTAL lack of people at individual sites who are willing to train and educate
new users.  

What are the possibilities of providing e-mail accounts to the interested who do not have the 
opportunity for access elsewhere (such as people who don't have phone service or can't spring for a private carrier) through the public library system? 



From innd@virtconf.digex.net  Mon Nov 21 22:01:36 1994
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Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 22:01:36 -0800
From: innd@virtconf.digex.net
Message-Id: <199411220601.WAA27485@virtconf.digex.net>
Reply-To: innd@virtconf.digex.net
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: UseNet-News

Path: virtconf!miwok!nbn!nic.scruz.net!boing.resort.com!banshee
From: banshee@boing.resort.com (John Vinopal)
Newsgroups: alt.ntia.avail
Subject: Re: U.S. OUT OF MY COMPUTER
Date: 22 Nov 1994 02:23:13 GMT
Organization: scruz-net
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <3arkmh$1tj@nic.scruz.net>
References: <haggis.331.0031E811@netcom.com> <3altv4$ltg@nic.scruz.net> <bazyarCzL2tF.MAJ@netcom.com>
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bazyar@netcom.com (Jawaid Bazyar) writes:
>banshee@boing.resort.com (John Vinopal) writes:
>>The kind of thing the net doesn't need:
>>Pac BEll granting 500K to Barrnet to figure out how to sell
>>ISDN to the masses.  
>  Why not? What's wrong with that?

Small companies who could REALLY use that much money
are currently sucessfully selling isdn connections.

-- 
The Wailer at the Gates of Dawn              | banshee@resort.com          |
Just who ARE you calling a FROOFROO Head?    |                             |
DoD#0667  "Just a friend of the beast."      | http://resort.com/~banshee/ |
2,3,5,7,13,17,19,31,61,89,107,127,521,607....|                             |
From djhorner@clover.cleaf.com  Mon Nov 21 23:28:16 1994
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Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 22:27:05 -0600 (CST)
From: Don Horner <djhorner@clover.cleaf.com>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: REACHING OUT !?
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Will anyone recieving this message, please respond by sending E-mail to 
the above address.  Plesas include your City, State.  I wish to check to 
make sure I am "GETTING OUT !"  Thank You!

djh
ATZ



From djhorner@clover.cleaf.com  Mon Nov 21 23:33:43 1994
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From: Don Horner <djhorner@clover.cleaf.com>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: a helpful address
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Does anyone know the Internet address of the National Institute on 
Disability and Rehabilitation Research?

djh

From djhorner@clover.cleaf.com  Mon Nov 21 23:39:43 1994
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From: Don Horner <djhorner@clover.cleaf.com>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: a helpful address?
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Does anyone know the Internet address of the West Virgina rehabilitation 
research & training center?  Any information concerning project "Enable" 
and project "Able Data" would be greatly appriciated!

djh

From hauben@columbia.edu  Tue Nov 22 02:02:51 1994
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Subject: Need to stress concept of active communication and interconnection


Questions of Universal Access, and Definition of Services.

Two questions for two conferences in NTIA's virtual conference.

 I. Universal Access Basic Principles

	In order for communications networks to be as useful as
	possible, it is	necessary for it both to

		A) Connect every possible resource and opinion,
		B) Make this connection available to all who desire it.

	A and B call for Universal Interconnection, rather than
	Universal Access. The usage of "interconnection"
	highlights the importance and role of every user also
	being an information provider. The term "access" stresses
	the status-quo understanding of one-way communication,
	the user accesses information that other "authorized" information
	providers make available. This is the old model. The new
	model is of interconnection of many different types of
	people, information, and ideas. The new model stresses
	the breakdown of old definitions of communication and
	information. Diversity allows for both the increasing
	speed in the formation of new ideas, and the ability
	for previously unauthorized ideas to have the airing
	and consideration they rightfully deserve.


	
II. Definition of "Services" to be available on this Universal Interconnection

	To start off, I take issue with the term "service." As I
have stated in Point I, the terminology being used is being
adopted from an out-dated model of a Top-Down communications
system. The new era of interconnection and many-to-many
communication afforded by Netnews and Mailing lists (among other
technologies) brings to the forefront a model of bottom-up rather
than top-down communication and information. It is time to
reexamine society and welcome the democratizing trends of
many-to-many communication over the one-to-many models as
represented by broadcast television, radio, newspapers and other
media. Rather than service, I would propose that we examine what
"forms of communication" should be available. So instead of
talking about "Universal Service", we should consider "Universal
Interconnection to forms of communication."

	Now I can consider what forms of communication I feel it
would make sense to provide on the networks which are currently
developing, and that the NTIA is seeking help on defining for the
future. The first important point to understand is that several
communications and information networks already exist. People
working on defining the National Information Infrastructure (NII)
or Global Information Infrastructure (GII) should closely examine
and try to understand the Internet, Usenet, and other currently
existing physical and logical networks. The key to understanding
what these currently existing networks is to consider their history
and development. Why were these networks developed, and under
what conditions? It is wrong to think on the future until one
understands these crucial questions, and is thinking about the
past and present. In summary, from my research into the history
and development of the ARPANET/Internet and Usenet, it is
important to realize two things

	1) The ARPANET was backed by a founding vision of a public
intellectual utility which would serve the whole of the community.

	2) Usenet and ARPANET mailing lists were formed out of
the desire of people to communicate with others. [Active discussion and
debate as opposed to the passive transfer of information of which
the "information superhighway" is being shoeboxed.]

As such, I would say it would be important to highlight, discuss
and make available interactive modes of communication over the
passive transfer of information. Thus I am suggesting emphasizing
of forms of multiple way of communication and broadcasting. Forms
currently defined by newsgroups, mailing lists, talk sessions,
IRC sessions, MOO experiences, and other forms of sharing and
collaboration. These type of forums are where this new technology
excels. Plenty of media exist which facilitates the passive
transfer of information and goods. (Such as mail-order, stores,
telephone orders, etc) It would be best to explore and develop
the new forms of communication which this new media facilitates,
and which was less possible and present in the past.

For more information about the history and development of the
Net, please reference "The Netizens and the Wonderful World of
the Net: On the History and Impact of the Global Computer
Network."

http://www.columbia.edu/~hauben/project_book.html

http://scrg.cs.tcd.ie/scrg/u/rcwoods/netbook/contents.html

gopher://gopher.cic.net/1/e-serials/alphabetic/a/amateur-computerist/netbook

ftp://wuarchive.wustl.edu/doc/misc/acn/netbook

If anyone needs help accessing any of these references, please
let me know.

Michael Hauben
Undergraduate Senior, Columbia College, Dept. of Computer Science

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Hauben Columbia College'95  Editor of Amateur Computerist Newsletter
          by day	hauben@columbia.edu		by night
   <a href="http://www.cc.columbia.edu/~hauben/">Netizen's Cyberstop</A>
From innd@virtconf.digex.net  Tue Nov 22 02:21:24 1994
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These groups were created
a mere four days ahead of schedule.
From chage@rahul.net  Tue Nov 22 07:25:17 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 94 01:27:35 PST
From: chage@rahul.net (Carl Hage)
Message-Id: <9411220927.AA20655@slick.chage.com>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Nonprofits and the Internet

>From: "W. Curtiss Priest" <BMSLIB@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
...
[Re: Educational Products Information Exchange]
>When the director approached people in the White house about finding
>support, one person asked -- if the information is valuable, why aren't
>you able to see it on the Internet?

An interesting response. I'm surprised that someone in the White house
would say that, because my expectations of the government's involvement
in the Internet is very new. Actually, I think that is a very relevant
response. The Internet would seem to be a very logical place for
this type of information.

My guess is that the real reason is that too few of the 100,000 K12
schools have basic internet access.

>So many reasons.  We lack pay mechanisms on the Internet.  Information
>useful for procuring software is needed by teachers and administrators
>who cannot pay $129 for the information on CD-ROM because of budget
>cuts.  The value to society of information about software and reviews
>from 50 magazines is underappreciated and the herd instinct causes
>a feeding frenzy over some 20-30 products that are continually written
>up in popular computer magazines, as the other 16,000 products are
>mostly ignored.

I guess I would disagree that the reason is that we lack payment
mechanisms or even that we do. Sales via credit card is common. Shareware
is another common payment mechanism. Distribution costs on the internet
are near 0, especially for the k12 usenet newsgroups. One or a few people,
e.g. the staff of EPIE, can organize information produced from a large
number of people, combining information from the authors of educational
products with the reviews and comments from actual users (not just a paid
reviewer).

Maybe the Educational Products Information Exchange *should* move
to the Internet. I don't see how this nonprofit relates to government
policy, except perhaps the focus on "high-end" technology.
Maybe you are saying, "Why is the government (or telecom companies)
funding expensive equipment like video to schools when they can`t
afford $129 to help them locate educational materials for a used
computer?"

Perhaps the schools would rather pay for a $30 magazine with 30
products rather than a $129 CD.

It seems to me that nonprofits get much of thier revenue from
contributions, e.g. membership fees. The internet offers a fantastic
opportunity for nonprofits as the mainstream public begins to use
it. Communication, a main resource for nonprofits, is very inexpensive
using the internet. I would really like to see more nonprofits
opening up and offering information freely accessable via internet.
In too many cases, e.g. apc.org, they are a closed society which
require membership payments before allowing access to thier information.

I am deluged with expensive junk mail, greeting cards, calendars, etc.
for nonprofits which send stuff and ask for money. Yet, it is very
difficult to find much about them. I would rather see what they do
and see them providing a service, and then I am more likely to give
a contribution if I think what they are doing is worthwhile.

>And remember, the less traditional the nonprofit cause, the harder it
>is for a nonprofit to survive!  The United Way or AARP are heavily
>supported, but these instutions do not usually share these funds
>with a vanguard nonprofit.  In 1988 we felt fortunate to get all of
>$5000 from AARP to study the possibilities of distance learning for
>older Americans.  But we were unsuccessful in convincing AARP that
>they had a role in helping shape that future!  They mainly wanted to
>inform their members of what the business sector would be providing.

This sounds like a need for one of those community "centers" to educate
the public for demand pull. What about senior net? Maybe you should just
keep trying, write some articles for AARP and get some seniors
using computers!

>We are not suggesting that this administration support any nonprofit
>that hangs out their shingle, but to listen better to understand
>what various nonprofits can provide in the development of our mutual
>information future -- and leverage! their activities in assuring
>accessibility and universal service.

I can't figure out what you are asking for. I would say that nonprofits
can contribute a great deal to the "community" brought together by the
NII. The government and telecom providers can help nonprofits participate
in the NII by helping them obtain access. This could be accomplished
for example, by grants of equipment, etc. to universities, community nets,
or other nonprofits, etc. who in turn provide network access and
support services to other nonprofit community service organizations.

There is a substantial amount of support for internet access to
nonprofits. In the old days, e.g. a few years ago, email and netnews was
usually free, as one company typically passed along mail for another, kind
of like a favor. Now with more general access to the public, one
usually must pay, but in return companies provide support service.
Nonprofits can still get internet access if they know how to ask
and how to setup thier computers.

Perhaps the Center for Information, Technology, & Society can help
other nonprofits become network literate and join the world of
cyberspace. The government could help nonprofits by using some of
the NII research to fund educational materials and starter kits
which are appropriate for schools and nonprofits, e.g. very low budget
access using donated computers.

I think a significant policy issue for the NII Advisory Council is that we
need an infrastructure to support the low-end, low budget needs of the
nonprofits and K-12 schools. The title of the "HPPC" is fundamentally
wrong. We don't need high performance gigabit networking, but we do need
high access. Let's redirect some of the funding for high end technology
into getting the mainstream public onto the net.  Instead of funding an
hour of video between two users, we should use the money to let 100,000
users send an email message!
From chage@rahul.net  Tue Nov 22 07:25:21 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 94 02:01:16 PST
From: chage@rahul.net (Carl Hage)
Message-Id: <9411221001.AA20666@slick.chage.com>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Interim Summary for Availability List

>>From: BHARRIS@ntia.doc.gov
>
>Carl Hage described in detail the differences in Internet access costs
... 
>Local daytime telephone costs $21 per gigabyte of
>information, which is far lower than the costs required for internet
>access. For example, Prodigy's internet mail costs $16,667 per gigabyte
>and Pacific Bell's packet data service costs $6,400 per gigabyte.

Part of my point in this table got lost, and probably wasn't explained
well. Actually, internet access costs can be quite reasonable,
particularly for large businesses. The $21/GB in local telephone
access is higher than current internet access costs!

A corporation with a 1.5Mb leased line with a 10% two-way average load
over 24 hours would pay ~$6 per gigabyte in access fees. If the average
load increased, the cost would go down. A smaller business would
pay more per GB, but would 

The point was that heavily advertised servies, e.g. Prodigy, or the
services from telco's, e.g. PacBell, have outrageously high usage fees for
digital packet data or email, in comparison to full internet access which
has many competing providers offering service. Many people believe
internet access is expensive. Actually email is extremely cheap, and
TV resolution video is (currently) extremely expensive. The difference
in the quantity of digital data between a TV resolution video and
a written transcript of a speech or the book version of
a movie is on the order of 100,000:1.

My provider charges $20 per month for up to 100MB UUCP access to
the internet (I can't afford a $80/mo dedicated connection).
The initial minute charges by the phone company for a business
can potentially raise the monthly telephone cost to $80/mo,
several times the internet access fee.

From BMSLIB@MITVMA.MIT.EDU  Tue Nov 22 08:32:29 1994
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Date:         Tue, 22 Nov 94 07:57:09 EST
From: "W. Curtiss Priest" <BMSLIB@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: [AVAIL:156] AVAIL digest 52
To: NTIA Forum on Availability and Cost <avail@VIRTCONF.NTIA.DOC.GOV>
In-Reply-To:  Your message of Tue, 22 Nov 1994 07:26:42 -0800

My thanks to chage@rahul.net (Carl Hage) for a very considered reply
to our posting about the role of nonprofits.

Regarding Carl's comments about getting revenues for educational consumer
information, I think the comments are thoughtful but not practical.

As evidence I cite today's Boston Globe's article "Internet losses:
The traditional rules don't apply in running on-line enterprises."
Here the front page article describes many attempts of for profits
in trying to use the Internet to make money.  The first story was about
Laura Fillmore who bought the electronic rights to one of Stephen King's
short stories.  "If she could persuade just a tiny fraction of all those
Internet cruisers to pay $5 to download the King story, 'I figured it
would do very well.'"  How many bought it -- "only dozens"  This didn't
even pay for the effort of putting it up, let alone profit.

Regarding Carl Hage's suggestion about educating others, I think he
is right on point.  We are forming a 'Foundations Forum for Cyberspace
Policy and Action.'  We believe the private foundations can benefit
from having a forum where they can exchange ideas and get expert
advice about how 'cyberspace' relates to their missions.

Fortunately there are many foundations and so if we receive a $500
membership fee from 50 foundations, we get $25,000 a year.  Not really
a bundle to cover our staff costs, but we have to make the fee small
enough to make it easily agreed to.

In the federal sector there is no similar funding possibility.  I
can't get the various agencies to become members of a forum -- there
is too much red tape to aggregate these funds.  Over the last 10 years
we have been fortunate to participate in 8 studies related to our
mission from the Office of Technology Assessment, U.S. Congress, but
these funds require meeting the precise demands of a project requested
by Congress and does not provide us with the latitude to address
issues not within the scope of the project.  The NSF is another potential
source, but we do not fair well in peer reviews because we have not
spent the time to become part of the peer review clubs (I won't comment
on the details).

Our attempts at NTIA/TIIAP funding was probably thwarted by two things:
only 8% of the bidders received an award and our two proposals were
submitted under vanguard nonprofits -- LINCT and the Center for Civic
Networking.  I think reviewers didn't want to take the risks involved,
though the proposals were both excellent and would have provided a better
return (in my humble opinion) than other projects that were funded.

This brings me back to the point of my last piece.  There needs to be
a federal mechanism to fund higher risk, innovative proposals.  This
can only occur when more people who are "low self-monitors" are actually
involved in the project (see Boston Globe, 11/14/94 "Toeing the line up
corporate ladder, p. 29.)

That article notes that many firms such as IBm, Eastman-Kodak, General
Motors, and Digital Equipment Corporation have had so much trouble adapting
to changing circumstances because they are populated with "high self-monitors"
-- people who adapt themselves to those above them so that they are liked.

They cite Steve Jobs "as a maverick who left one corporate employer because
top managers there were't interested in his vision of a user-friendly personal
computer."  And we know how that story goes.

Returning to the federal government and DOC, in particular, I judge that
there are too many "high self-monitors" in the group.

For example, Bonny Bracey has tried to involve our Center with the
formation of educational principles to guide NTIA -- with no success.
She, herself, has said in various email correspondences that she is
not listened to and that NTIA just keep listening to the same old, same
old.

As you can tell, I am a low self-monitor.  It may mean I never see
a dollar from NTIA.  I have, instead, been quite outspoken about
ways in which we think the process can be improved (and I have rent
and a family to think about).

_______________________________________________________________________________
|               W. Curtiss Priest, Ph.D.             *********************** |
|      Center for Information, Technology, & Society *  Improving humanity * |
|                                                    *  through technology * |
|                  466 Pleasant Street               *********************** |
|                Melrose, MA  02176-4522         BMSLIB@MITVMA.MIT.EDU       |
|                  Voice: 617-662-4044     Gopher to our publications:       |
|                   Fax: 617-662-6882      GOPHER.STD.COM (under nonprofits) |
_____________________________________________________________________________|
From rbarry@hopper.itc.virginia.edu  Tue Nov 22 09:07:00 1994
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From: Rey Barry <rbarry@hopper.itc.virginia.edu>
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Subject: Re: [AVAIL:154] AVAIL digest 50
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 08:59:09 -0500 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199411221003.CAA12201@virtconf.digex.net> from "avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov" at Nov 22, 94 02:03:27 am
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> II. Definition of "Services" to be available on this Universal
> Interconnection
> 	To start off, I take issue with the term "service." As I
> have stated in Point I, the terminology being used is being
> adopted from an out-dated model of a Top-Down communications
> system.

I agree with you.  The Internet only makes sense if you consider it an
experiment in, of all things, pure communism.  Then it all makes perfect
sense.  One suspects an attempt to extend it beyond the commune will
follow a known course.

-- 
 
 rbarry@hopper.itc.virginia.edu          Freeware Hall of Fame BBS  
    The only thing Americans       Hayes Optima 288 - 804-293-4710 
   have in common is paranoia.       Free BBS - 1st call downloads  
From jamesm@satyrs.engr.CSUFresno.EDU  Tue Nov 22 12:16:40 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 94 09:08:44 PST
From: jamesm@satyrs.engr.CSUFresno.EDU (James Martin)
Message-Id: <9411221708.AA05830@satyrs.engr.CSUFresno.EDU>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: don't yell; I'm right here!!
Cc: jamesm

 
yes, you are GETTING OUT!
                           Thank you!
From jamesm@satyrs.engr.CSUFresno.EDU  Tue Nov 22 12:51:47 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 94 08:17:10 PST
From: jamesm@satyrs.engr.CSUFresno.EDU (James Martin)
Message-Id: <9411221617.AA05591@satyrs.engr.CSUFresno.EDU>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: regulators in sheeps' clothing
Cc: jamesm

per the advice of the moderator, this is cross-posted from the
PRIVACY discussion group, to wit:
 
    The major point to keep uppermost in mind, when discussing the
various legal & technical entanglements of protecting (or, as is the
probable eventual goal of many who claim to be protecting privacy,
actually attacking) privacy, is that there will always be those who
will want to limit our rights.  Any regulatory entity which initially
is quite acceptable to those (such as me) who are concerned about the
insidious threats to privacy, posed by various authorities, will soon
find itself influenced by people who actually are NOT interested in
retaining every individual's rights.
 
     I would like to opine that I see no need - excepting the need for
a politician to get news coverage for announcing some allegedly new
idea - for an "information superhighway" to be constructed; we already
have one, the internet: the principal problem is one mentioned earlier,
that access to the internet is restricted to the elite.  However, I do
not expect access to be made as easy for the lay populace, as access is
for a highway.  I think that this is the implication of the alleged
policy; that an info-highway will be available to any person & will be
as easy to use as a highway.  It is quite true that our society could
use currently available resources (as one person mentioned, old model
computers are currently being junked for scrap metal; in other words,
we are throwing stuff away that we could possibly use to provide some
sort of program to provide computers for the poor - the image springs
to mind, of the USDA program which buys selected food commodities from
farmers & then gives that food to poor folks) to construct such a
system.  It would undoubtedly benefit society in general, for every
person to have the ability to access the internet from their own home.
The machinery involved would be no more complex or expensive than our
currently widely-used television broadcasting system.  However, as I
said, I sincerely doubt that we will see such a system in our lifetime.
Like any other change which does not principally benefit some entrenched
elite group, it will face too much opposition from our barbarians.

     While many (including George Brett - whose url & e-address both
are, strangely enough, inoperable ... at least from this e-end - the
director of cindr.org) seem to be sincerely working to develop standards
and regulations for networks, there will be far too much pressure from
those whose primary interest is to limit individual rights.  Ostensibly,
the goals of these people will seem innocuous.  Some may take delight
in the intellectual intricacies of the legal system, or they may merely
be delighted at the prospect of increased employment security for the
many lawyers who will specialize in the briar patch of laws which will
entrap many unsuspecting people who try to use the internet's heir.
 
     Far more dangerous are the people who consider their morality to
be superior.  They have been prominently featured in most of the press
coverage of internet issues.  Here a pornographer, there a child
molester.  They have made certain that many people are aware of the
fact that naughty words are sometimes spoken, in the e-literature.
They are dangerous for several reasons. 
 
     They are always going to be with us.  As long as people are
strongly attracted to religions, the authority figures of those groups
will have a strong influence on any public policy.  And, despite the
whinings from such as I, who complain that sex is nowhere near as bad
for grown or growing children, as killing is, they can get a lot of
valuable (for them) publicity from someone who writes a naughty word
in one state, & someone else in another state reads that word.  So
those who appoint themselves to ensure that I conform to their version
of morality, are going to always be stirring up whatever trouble they
can.
 
     The keepers of our "morality" are insidious; their influence is
felt in a variety of surprising venues, and their agenda is promoted
by seemingly harmless ventures.  It will provide them with many new
opportunities, by starting up a commission to "reform" the internet.

     Certainly we will need to accommodate new technologies as the
decades pass, and we really should try to eliminate the info-have-nots
from the fringes of our society.  But the "improvements" are certain
to be defined by the wrong people.
                                         James Milton Martin

jamesm@satyrs.engr.csufresno.edu
http://
www.engr.csufresno.edu/Personal/ECE/Students/James_Milton_Martin/Home.html

 
Thank you for your attention. 
                                   James
From <@UTARLVM1.UTA.EDU:VANBROCKLIN@library.uta.edu>  Tue Nov 22 17:38:02 1994
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From: "Jackie Van Brocklin" <VANBROCKLIN@library.uta.edu>
To: Don Horner <djhorner@clover.cleaf.com>, avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Date:          Tue, 22 Nov 1994 13:10:37 CST
Subject:       Re: [AVAIL:151] REACHING OUT !?
Priority: normal
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> From: Don Horner <djhorner@clover.cleaf.com>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov>
> Subject: [AVAIL:151] REACHING OUT !?
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> Will anyone recieving this message, please respond by sending E-mail to 
> the above address.  Plesas include your City, State.  I wish to check to 
> make sure I am "GETTING OUT !"  Thank You!
> 
> djh
> ATZ
> 
> 
I'm reading you HERE!  (Arlington, Texas)

JVB> 
> 
From jdschwe@kn.PacBell.COM  Tue Nov 22 17:46:00 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 14:38:07 -0800 (PST)
From: John Schweizer <jdschwe@kn.PacBell.COM>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:151] REACHING OUT !?
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov>
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John Schweizer
San Francisco, California

On Mon, 21 Nov 1994, Don Horner wrote:

> Will anyone recieving this message, please respond by sending E-mail to 
> the above address.  Plesas include your City, State.  I wish to check to 
> make sure I am "GETTING OUT !"  Thank You!
> 
> djh
> ATZ
> 
> 
> 
> 
From drd@mv.MV.COM  Tue Nov 22 17:54:08 1994
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From: "David R. Dick" <drd@mv.MV.COM>
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To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Re: REACHING OUT !?
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ack
From e81241@rl.gov  Tue Nov 22 19:28:05 1994
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From: e81241@rl.gov (bart preecs)
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To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Why not TV, cable?
Cc: e81241@rl.gov


I'd like to support -- with an important qualification -- the general approach to the economics
of universal service or universal access to advanced electronic communication tools
advocated by Prof. Noam.

The qualification has to do with the comment that existing broadcasting and
telecommunications users would not pay into the fund used to support universal service.  I do
not understand the purpose of this exemption.  I see no reason other than sheer political
expediency while existing TV, radio, and cable operators should not pay into universal
service pools.  The revenue thus created would be substantial, but if we're going to provide
an information infrastructure that provides phones lines, computer terminals, and other
services to 150,000 K-12 schools, and tens of thousands of public libraries, substantial
revenues will be needed.   (as a benchmark, consider that my wife works at a middle school
that has 1,100 students, 60 teachers and exactly six outgoing phone lines. ) 

Cable television in particular has an odd tax structure, perhaps because of its hybrid federal-
local regulatory scheme.  Washington state collects sales tax on only a small portion of my
monthly bill and the tax paid to the city is a fraction of what the sales tax on the whole bill
would be.  (An exemption upheld by a cash-starved Legislature only 2 years ago.) Daily
newspapers in Washington don't appear to pay any sales tax either, and fear of angry
publishers seems to be the only explanation for this odd exemption. 

If there's an economic justification for not including existing services in the pools providing
support for universal service, I'd like to hear about it. 

Bart Preecs
Richland WA 

From Post_Office@wwire.net  Tue Nov 22 20:03:54 1994
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Date: 22 Nov 1994 23:40:05 GMT
From: Post_Office@wwire.net (Post Office)
Organization: Women's Wire
Reply-To: Post_Office@wwire.net
Subject: NDN: [AVAIL:165] AVAIL digest 57
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov

Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to:

Nancy Rhine (Mailbox or Conference is full.)

From <@UTARLVM1.UTA.EDU:VANBROCKLIN@library.uta.edu>  Tue Nov 22 20:42:55 1994
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From: "Jackie Van Brocklin" <VANBROCKLIN@library.uta.edu>
To: John Schweizer <jdschwe@kn.PacBell.COM>, avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Date:          Tue, 22 Nov 1994 19:37:32 CST
Subject:       Re: [AVAIL:163] Re: REACHING OUT !?
Priority: normal
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> 
> John Schweizer
> San Francisco, California
> 
> On Mon, 21 Nov 1994, Don Horner wrote:
> 
> > Will anyone recieving this message, please respond by sending E-mail to 
> > the above address.  Plesas include your City, State.  I wish to check to 
> > make sure I am "GETTING OUT !"  Thank You!
> > 
> > djh
> > ATZ
> > 
> > 
   > > Hello, S.F. - I'm reading you "loud & clear."
   
       JVB
       Arlington, Texas (between Fort Worth & Dallas) 
> > 
> 
From blast@leland.Stanford.EDU  Tue Nov 22 22:32:42 1994
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From: Solomon Philip Hill <blast@leland.Stanford.EDU>
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To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Re:  [AVAIL:167] AVAIL digest 58

 
From schang@huey.csun.edu  Wed Nov 23 00:49:25 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 21:15:05 +0800 (PST)
From: Sok Sun Chang <schang@huey.csun.edu>
Subject: How to Pay...
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
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Just read Eli Noam's entry at the gopher site.
I found it rather confusing.

My simple suggestion would be to expect users to pay for the services or
resources that they consume through any acceptable means, not limited to 
monetary ones.  

People have different worthiness and not everyone has the
ability to transfer such worth to a measurable dollars presently.  I think
that is the source of many problems with poverty.  People are different. 
However, there are many people like me who are excited at the possibility
of boundless information availability and would not want to be left out
just because of the lack of money.  I am sure there are much to be
done with IITF, for example or any communications provider.  By partaking
in the technological, social, and political improvement process, an user
can become another resource, and thus may satisfy his/her dues.

This means that a comprehensive method of measuring and maintaing some
kind of point system (which can be earned/paid in dollars or services) is
necessary.  This should be doable.  After all, computers are there to tally.

Sok Sun Chang


From hauben@columbia.edu  Wed Nov 23 00:57:07 1994
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From: Michael Hauben <hauben@columbia.edu>
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To: redefus@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Cc: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Netizen Speech


I think the following speech should prove interesting. It touches
on both one concept of "universal access" and what is currently
special about the current Net (Internet/Usenet/etc/etc) and how
this should help define the "services" to be provided on the NII
or GII.

The following is a speech I gave to Columbia University's student
ACM Chapter on 4/24/94. It is adapted from my paper titled "The
Net and Netizens: The Impact the Net has on People's Lives"
(available as chapter 7 of the netbook "The Netizens and the
Wonderful World of the Net: An Anthology" at
http://www.columbia.edu/~hauben/project_book.html) 

		      Researching the "Net":
	   A talk on The Evolution of Usenet News and
	 The Significance of the Global Computer Network

               by Michael Hauben (hauben@columbia.edu)

                                 I.

     Welcome to the 21st Century. You are a Netizen, or a Net
Citizen, and you exist as a citizen of the world thanks to the
global connectivity that the Net makes possible. You consider
everyone as your compatriot. You physically live in one country
but you are in contact with much of the world via the global
computer network. Virtually you live next door to every other
single Netizen in the world. Geographical separation is replaced
by existence in the same virtual space. 

     The situation I describe is only a prediction of the future,
but a large part of the necessary infrastructure currently
exists. The Net - or the Internet, BITNET, FIDOnet, other physi-
cal networks, Usenet, VMSnet, and other logical networks and so
on - has rapidly grown to cover all of the developed countries in
the world. Every day more computers attach to the existing
networks and every new computer adds to the user base - at least
twenty five million people are interconnected today. Why do all these
people pass their time  sitting in front of a computer typing
away? They have very good reason to! Twenty five million people
plus have very good reason not to be wrong.

     We are seeing a revitalization of society. The frameworks
are being redesigned from the bottom up. A new more democratic
world is becoming possible. According to one user, the Net has
"immeasurably increased the quality of ... life." The Net seems
to open a new lease on life for people. Social connections which
were never before possible, or which were relatively hard to
achieve, are now facilitated by the Net. Geography and time no
longer are boundaries. Social limitations and conventions no
longer prevent potential friendships or partnerships. In this
manner Netizens are meeting other Netizens from far-away and
close by that they might never have met without the Net.

     A new world of connections between people - either privately
from individual to individual or publicly from individuals to the
collective mass of many on the net - is possible. The old model
of central distribution of information from the Network
Broadcasting or Publication Company is being questioned and
challenged. The top-down model of information being distributed
by a few for mass-consumption is no longer the only News. Netnews
brings the power of the reporter to the Netizen. People now have
the ability to broadcast their observations or questions around
the world and have other people respond. The computer networks
form a new grassroots connection that allows the excluded sec-
tions of society to have a voice. This new medium is unprecedent-
ed. Previous grassroots media have existed for much smaller-
sized selections of people. The model of the Net proves the old
way does not have to be the only way of networking. The Net
extends the idea of networking - of making connections with
strangers that prove to be advantageous to one or both parties. 

     The complete connection of the body of citizens of the world
that the Net makes possible does not exist as of today, and it
will definitely be a fight to make access to the Net open and
available to all. However, in the future we might be seeing the
possible expansion of what it means to be a social animal.
Practically every single individual on the Net today is available
to every other person on the Net. International connection
coexists on the same level with local connection. Also the
computer networks allow a more advanced connection between the
people who are communicating. With computer-communication sys-
tems, information or thoughts are connected to people's names and
electronic-mail addresses. On the Net, one can connect to others
who have similar interests or whose thought processes they enjoy.

     Netizens make it a point to be helpful and friendly - if
they feel it to be worthwhile. Many Netizens feel they have an
obligation to be helpful and answer queries and followup on
discussions to put their opinion into the pot of opinions. Over a
period of time the voluntary contributions to the Net have built
it into a useful connection to other people around the world. The
Net can be a helpful medium to understand the world. Only by
seeing all points of view can any one person attempt to figure
out either their own position on a topic or in the end, the truth.

     Net Society differs from off-line society by welcoming
intellectual activity. People are encouraged to have things on
their mind and to present those ideas to the Net. People are
allowed to be intellectually interesting and interested. This
intellectual activity forms a major part of the on-line informa-
tion that is carried by the various computer networks. Netizens
can interact with other people to help add to or alter that
information. Brain-storming between varieties of people produces
robust thinking. Information is no longer a fixed commodity or
resource on the Nets. It is constantly being added to and im-
proved collectively. The Net is a grand intellectual and social
commune in the spirit of the collective nature present at the
origins of human society. Netizens working together continually
expand the store of information worldwide. One person called the
Net an untapped resource because it provides an alternative to
the normal channels and ways of doing things. The Net allows for
the meeting of minds to form and develop ideas. It brings
people's thinking processes out of isolation and into the open.
Every user of the Net gains the role of being special and useful.
The fact that every user has his or her own opinions and
interests adds to the general body of specialized knowledge on 
the Net. Each Netizen thus becomes a special resource valuable to
the Net. Each user contributes to the whole intellectual and
social value and possibilities of the Net.
-- 


            II. Licklider, the Visionary

     The world of the Netizen was envisioned some twenty five
years ago by J.C.R. Licklider and Robert Taylor in their article
"The Computer as a Communication Device" (Science and Technology,
April 1968). Licklider brought to his leadership of the US Depart-
ment of Defense's Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA) a
vision of "the intergalactic computer network." Whenever he would
speak of ARPA, he would mention this vision. J.C.R. Licklider was
a prophet of the Net. In his article Licklider establishes
several helpful principles which would make the computer play a
helpful role in human communication. These principles were:

1) Communication is defined as an interactive creative process. 

2) Response times need to be short to make the "conversation"
   free and easy.

3) The larger network would form out of smaller regional 
   networks. 

4) Communities would form out of affinity and common interests.

     Licklider focused on the Net comprising of a network of
networks. While other researchers of the time focused on the
sharing of computing resources, Licklider kept an open mind and
wrote:

     "...The collection of people, hardware, and software -
     the multi-access computer together with its local
     community of users - will become a node in a geographi-
     cally distributed computer network.....Through the
     network, therefore, all the large computers can commu-
     nicate with one another. And through them, all the mem-
     bers of the supercommunity can communicate - with other
     people, with programs, with data, or with a selected
     combinations of those resources." (32)


	Licklider's understandings from his 1968 paper have stood
the test of time, and do represent what the Net is today. His
concept of the sharing of both computing and human resources
accurately describes today's Net. The networking of various human
connections quickly forms, changes its goals, disbands and
reforms into new collaborations. The fluidity of such group
dynamics leads to a quickening of the creation of new ideas.
Groups can form to discuss an idea, focus in or broaden out and
reform to fit the new ideas that have resulted from the process.

     The virtual space created on non-commercial computer net-
works is accessible universally. This space is accessible from
the connections that exist;  whereas social networks in the
physical world generally are connected only by limited gateways.
So the capability of networking on computer nets overcomes
limitations inherent in non-computer social networks. This is
important because it reduces the problems of population growth.
Population growth no longer means limited. Rather that very
growth of population now means an improvement of resources. Thus
growth of population can be seen as a positive asset. This is a
new way of looking at people in our society. Every new person can
mean a new set of perspectives and specialties to add to the
wealth of knowledge of the world. This new view of people could
help improve the view of the future. The old model looks down on
population growth and people as a strain on the environment
rather than the increase of intellectual contribution these
individuals can make. However, access to the Net needs to be
universal for the Net to fully utilize the contribution each
person can represent. Once access is limited, the Net and those
on the Net lose the full possible advantages the Net can offer.
Lastly the people on the Net need to be active in order to bring
about the best possible use of the Network.

     Licklider foresaw that the Net allows for people of common
interests, who are otherwise strangers, to communicate. Much of
the magic of the Net is the ability to make a contribution of
your ideas, and then be connected to utter strangers. He saw that
people would connect to others via this net in ways that had been
much harder in the past. Licklider observed as the ARPANET
spanned two continents. This physical connection allowed for
wider social collaborations to form. This was the beginning of
Computer Data networks facilitating connections of people around
the world.

     My research on and about the Net has been and continues to
be very exciting for me. When I posted my inquiries, I usually
received the first reply within a couple of hours. The feeling of
receiving that very first reply from a total stranger is always
exhilarating! That set of first replies from people reminds me of
the magic of E-Mail. It is nice that there can be reminders of
how exciting it all is - so that the value of this new use of
computers is never forgotten.

                    III. CRITICAL MASS 

     The Net has grown so much in the last 25 years, that a critical
mass of people and interests has been reached. This collection of
individuals adds to the interests and specialties of the whole
community. Most people can now gain something from the Net, while
at the same time helping it out. A critical mass has developed on
the net. Enough people exist that the whole is now greater than
any one individual and thus makes the Net worthwhile to be part
of. People are meshing intellects and knowledge to form new
ideas. Larry Press made this clear by writing:

     "I now work on the Net at least 2 hours per day. I've had an 
account since around 1975 but it has only become super important
in the last couple of years because a critical mass of membership
was reached. I no longer work in LA, but in cyberspace."

     Many inhabitants of the Net feel that only the most techni-
cally inclined people use the Net. This is not true, as many
different kinds of people are now connected to the Net. While the
original users of the Net were from exclusively technical and
scientific communities, many of them found it a valuable experi-
ence to explore the Net for more than just technical reasons.
The nets, in their early days, were only available in a few parts
the world. Now however, people of all ages, from most parts of
the globe, and of many professions, make up the Net. The original
prototype networks (e.g.: ARPAnet in the USA, NPL in the United
Kingdom, CYCLADES in France and other networks around the world)
developed the necessary physical infrastructure for a fertile
social network to develop. Einar Stefferud wrote of this social
connection in an article,

        "The ARPANET has produced several monumental results. It
provided the physical and electrical communications backbone for
development of the latent social infrastructure we now call 'THE
INTERNET COMMUNITY.'" (ConneXions, Oct. 1989 vol 3 No. 10. pg.21)

     Many different kinds of people comprise the Net. The Univer-
sity Community sponsors access for a broad range of people
(students, professors, staff, professor emeritus, and so on).
Programmers, engineers and researchers from many companies are
connected. A K-12 Net exists within the lower grades of education
which helps to invite young people to be a part of our community.
Special Bulletin Board software (for example Waffle) exists to
connect Personal Computer users to the Net. Various Unix bulletin
board systems exist to connect other users. It is impossible to
tell exactly who connects to public bulletin board systems, as
only an inexpensive computer (or terminal) and modem are required
to connect. Many common bulletin board systems (for example fido
board) have at least e-mail and many also participate through a
gateway to Netnews. Prototype Community Network Systems are
forming around the world (e.g.: In Cleveland - the cleveland
Freenet, In New Zealand - the Wellington Citynet, In California,
the Santa Monica Public Electronic Network, etc) Access via these
community systems can be as easy as visiting the community
library and membership is open to all who live in the community.

     In addition to the living body of resources this diversity
of Netizens represent, there is also a continually growing body
of digitized data that forms a set of resources.  Whether it is
Netizens digitizing great literature of the past (e.g.: the
Gutenberg Project), or it is people gathering otherwise obscure
or non-mainstream material (e.g.: Various Religions, unusual
hobbies, fringe and cult materials, and so on), or if it is
Netizens contributing new and original material (e.g.: the
Amateur Computerist Newsletter), the net follows in the great
tradition of other public bottom-up institutions, such as the
public library or the principle behind public education.  The Net
shares with these institutions that they serve the general
populace. This data is just part of the treasure. Often living
Netizens provide pointers to this digitized store of publicly
available information.  Many of the network access tools have
been programmed with the principle of being available to every-
one. The best example is the method of connecting to file reposi-
tories via FTP (file transfer protocol) by logging in as an
"anonymous" user. Most (if not all) World Wide Web Sites, Wide
Area Information Systems (WAIS), and gopher sites are open for
all users of the Net. It is true that the current membership of
the Net Community is smaller than it will be, but the net has
reached a point of general usefulness no matter who you are. 

        All of this evidence is exactly why there could be prob-
lems if the Net comes under the control of commercial entities.
Once commercial interests gain control, the Net will be much less
powerful for the ordinary person than it is currently. Commercial
interests vary from those of the common person. They attempt to
make profit from any available means. Compuserve is an example of
one current commercial network. A user of Compuserve pays for
access by the minute. If this scenero would be extended to the
Net of which I speak, the Netiquite of being helpful would
have a price tag attached to it. If people had had to pay by the
minute during the Net's development, very few would have been
able to afford the network time needed to be helpful to others. 

     The Net has only developed because of the hard work and
voluntary dedication of many people. It has grown because the Net
is under the control and power of the people at a bottom-level, and
because these people have over the years made a point to make it
something worthwhile. People's posts and contributions to the Net
have been the developing forces. 

                IV.  Network as a New Democratic Force

     For the people of the World, the Net provides a powerful way
of peaceful assembly. Peaceful Assembly allows for people to take
control over their lives, rather than that control being in the
hands of others. This power has to be honored and protected. Any
medium or tool that helps people to hold or gain power is some-
thing that is special and has to be protected. (See "The Computer
as Democratizer", Amateur Computerist Newsletter, Vol 4, No 5,
Fall 1992)

     J.C.R. Licklider believed that access to the then growing
information network should be made ubiquitous. He felt that the
Net's value would depend on high connectivity. In his article,
"The Computer as a Communication Device", Licklider argues that
the impact upon society depends on how available the network is
to the society as a whole. He wrote:

     "For the society, the impact will be good or bad depending
mainly on the question: Will `to be on line' be a privilege or a
right? If only a favored segment of the population gets a chance
to enjoy the advantage of `intelligence amplification,' the
network may exaggerate the discontinuity in the spectrum of
intellectual opportunity."

     The Net has made a valuable impact to human society. I have
heard from many people how their lives have been substantially
improved via their connection to the Net. This enhancement of
people's lives provides the incentive needed for providing access
to all in society. Society will improve if net access is made
available to people as a whole. Only if access is universal will
the Net itself truly advance. The ubiquitous connection is neces-
sary for the Net to encompass all possible resources. One Net
visionary responded to my research by calling for universal
access. Steve Welch wrote:

"If we can get to the point where anyone who gets out of high
school alive has used computers to communicate on the Net or a
reasonable facsimile or successor to it, then we as a society
will benefit in ways not currently understandable.  When access
to information is as ubiquitous as access to the phone system,
all hell will break loose. Bet on it."

        Steve is right, "all hell will break loose" in the most
positive of ways imaginable. The philosophers Thomas Paine, Jean
Jacques Rousseau, and all other fighters for democracy would have
been proud.

     Similar to past communications advances such as the printing
press, mail, and the telephone, the Global Computer Communica-
tions Network has already fundementally changed our lives.
Licklider predicted that the Net would fundamentally change the
way people live and work. It is important to try to understand
this impact, so as to help further this advance.

From schang@huey.csun.edu  Wed Nov 23 01:25:46 1994
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Received: by huey.csun.edu
	(1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA251681255; Tue, 22 Nov 1994 22:14:15 -0800
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 22:13:04 +0800 (PST)
From: Sok Sun Chang <schang@huey.csun.edu>
Subject: [AVAIL:670]How to Pay
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Message-Id: <Pine.3.03.9411222203.A19203-b100000@huey.csun.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Sok Sun Chang <schang@huey.csun.edu>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: How to Pay...

Just read Eli Noam's entry at the gopher site.
I found it rather confusing.

My simple suggestion would be to expect users to pay for the services or
resources that they consume through any acceptable means, not limited to 
monetary ones.  

People have different worthiness and not everyone has the
ability to transfer such worth to a measurable dollars presently.  I think
that is the source of many problems with poverty.  People are different. 
However, there are many people like me who are excited at the possibility
of boundless information availability and would not want to be left out
just because of the lack of money.  I am sure there are much to be
done with IITF, for example or any communications provider.  By partaking
in the technological, social, and political improvement process, an user
can become another resource, and thus may satisfy his/her dues.

This means that a comprehensive method of measuring and maintaing some
kind of point system (which can be earned/paid in dollars or services) is
necessary.  This should be doable.  After all, computers are there to tally.

Sok Sun Chang



From az908@freenet.carleton.ca  Wed Nov 23 01:32:43 1994
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Received: (az908@localhost) by freenet.carleton.ca (8.6.9/8.6.4) id BAA12542; Wed, 23 Nov 1994 01:24:56 -0500
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 01:24:56 -0500
Message-Id: <199411230624.BAA12542@freenet.carleton.ca>
From: az908@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Holden)
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov, privacy@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Universal access and the Feds...
Reply-To: az908@freenet.carleton.ca

Yesterday, the Vice-Chair of the Blue Sky FreeNet in Manitoba, Canada
made a presentation to the monthly meeting of the Victoria FreNet (BC,
Canada).  He explained briefly how the Blue Sky FreeNet was set up and run.

Blue Sky FreeNet is providing access to all of Manitoba, no extra costs to
small rural areas, no LD charges.  How?

They have basically a hub, in each of the different calling areas, each
with a connection the the MBNet backbone, in one for or another.  Some
places will be piggybacking on CBC radio waves, others on satelite
connections, some on fiber optics.  Of course, the fact that Manitoba
was the site for fiber optics testing 20 years ago, helps! :) Each hub costs
about $7 200 to set up.  They even have Aboriginal Tribes hooked up that
don't even have a road to access by car!

They convinced USRobotics to sell them over 1000 modems at cost, and give a
special deal to users of $100.  These are all 28.8 Sportsters!

The phone lines are costing them only $20/month (a reductin of $50 from
the usual cost of $70).  This was helped by the fact that Manitoba Telcom
is a Crown Corp. and so they donated (in a roundabout sort of way) all the
phone lines.  (Knowing full well, that they would also benefit, because a
lot of people would soon get a second line for their modem :)

The total cost for this project set up, over 3 years (which has just started,
but continues to evolve) is 17.4 million. Some of the funding comes form
the Ministry of Education since they wanted to connect their schools, as
well as other government Ministries.

Each hub is run independantly, with people cordinating all of them
together.

Guess what?  The Information Highway Advisory Council had nothing to do
with this, neither did annoying Cable Companies!

This is just a sampling of a very amazing and substantial accomplishment,
I can't accuratly tell you everything that we were told last night. 
telnet to winnie.freenet.mb.ca and check out the Blue Sky FreeNet!  Ask
them questions, they're more than willing to give advice, they said so
last night!

Bye,

--

Paul Holden			       "Float like a butterfly,
az908@freenet.carleton.ca		  sting like a bee."
From innd@virtconf.digex.net  Wed Nov 23 02:21:30 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 02:21:30 -0800
From: innd@virtconf.digex.net
Message-Id: <199411231021.CAA09508@virtconf.digex.net>
Reply-To: innd@virtconf.digex.net
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: UseNet-News

Control: rmgroup alt.ntia.avail
Newsgroups: alt.ntia.avail.ctl
Path: virtconf!miwok!well!pacbell.com!att-out!rutgers!dziuxsolim.rutgers.edu!uunet!news.claremont.edu!kaiwan.com!exit.com!netcom.com!hagie
From: hagie@netcom.com (Scott Hagie)
Subject: cmsg rmgroup alt.ntia.avail
Message-ID: <hagieCzouHu.62A@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
References: <3ajr3c$6u12@ag.oro.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 21:32:18 GMT
Approved: hagie@netcom.com
Lines: 16

Scott Jennings (smj@smudge.oro.net) wrote:
: These groups were created
: a mere four days ahead of schedule.

Path:
netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.ed
u!caen!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!torn!uunet.ca!uunet.ca!torfree!gts!
feline!halt!scrumptious!canards!oro.net!smudge.oro.net!smj

Another Becker forgery.

Scott
--
         Scott Hagie   -   hagie@netcom.com   -   Sierra Madre, Ca.

       Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors.
From ntiagate@virgin.uvi.edu  Wed Nov 23 06:46:16 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 11:26:24 GMT
From: pdeblanc@virgin.uvi.edu (Peter deBlanc)
Message-ID: <1994Nov23.112624.8341@virgin.uvi.edu>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
In-Reply-To: <avail199411200919.BAA26131@virtconf.digex.net>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:139] AVAIL digest 38

: Topics covered in this issue include:

:   1) Re: [AVAIL:113] AVAIL digest 21
: 	by Brian Larkin <blarkin@cpcug.org>
:   2) Re: Universal access
: 	by mkessel@world.std.com (Martin Kessel)

: ----------------------------------------------------------------------

: Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 23:14:33 -0500 (EST)
: From: Brian Larkin <blarkin@cpcug.org>
: To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
: Cc: Multiple recipients of list <avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov>
: Subject: Re: [AVAIL:113] AVAIL digest 21
: Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941119231022.27238A-100000@cpcug.org>

: There have been many eloquent and passionate opinions expressed here 
: regarding the potential role of public libraries and schools in providing 
: access to the Internet.  One major difficulty is that the hours during 
: which such institutions are available to the public are precisely those 
: hours when the net is already busiest.  Imagine 30,000,000 more daily 
: users during peak hours!

: ------------------------------

: Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 00:33:43 -0500
: From: mkessel@world.std.com (Martin Kessel)
: To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
: Subject: Re: Universal access
: Message-ID: <199411200533.AA28596@world.std.com>

: On Thu, 17 Nov 94 Chris Silker wrote:

: I hate to disillusion you, but the university community is among the 
: technological elite.  Until recently university faculty and students were 
: the only ones with access to the Internet, and are still the only ones with 
: free access.

In the U.S. Virgin Islands, the V.I.P. FreeNet provides free access to 
the Internet.


: Finally, for those who do not have computers or even telephones, there must 
: be publicly accessible sites in libraries and other community sites.

The V.I.P. FreeNet provides public access terminals in ever expanding 
locations. Terminals will be deployed in schools, libraries, shopping 
malls, the airport, and the cruise ship dock.


Private sector organizations, civic groups, and sponsors/underwriters can 
provide this access if some group takes it upon themselves to organize 
it. For example, here in the U.S. Virgin Islands, the FreeNet is 
organized by the Rotary Club, local public television, and a private 
sector computer consulting firm that donates technical services.

The government does not have to provide the last mile access. Perhaps the 
most cost effective thing tax dollars could do is provide some matching 
grants to ONE ENTITY in every local area to assist in last-mile public 
access.  This could be done using the already established format of 
Public Television (Corporation for Public Broadcasting), where some 
matching funds are supplied based on the dollar amount of local inputs.

-- 
Peter J. de Blanc			Octagon Consultants Int'l, Inc.
ab001@virgin.uvi.edu			P.O. Box 1678, St. Thomas, VI 00804
VIP FreeNet Organizer                   Voice (809)776-4800 Fax (809)776-2666

From jkharms@osiris.cso.uiuc.edu  Wed Nov 23 08:44:56 1994
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From: "John K. Harms" <jkharms@osiris.cso.uiuc.edu>
Message-Id: <199411231336.AA18105@osiris.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:156] Nonprofits and the Internet
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 07:36:31 -0600 (CST)
Cc: jkharms@osiris.cso.uiuc.edu (John K. Harms)
In-Reply-To: <9411220927.AA20655@slick.chage.com> from "Carl Hage" at Nov 22, 94 07:26:22 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
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> 
> >From: "W. Curtiss Priest" <BMSLIB@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
> ..
> [Re: Educational Products Information Exchange]
> >When the director approached people in the White house about finding
> >support, one person asked -- if the information is valuable, why aren't
> >you able to see it on the Internet?
> 
> An interesting response. I'm surprised that someone in the White house
> would say that, because my expectations of the government's involvement
> in the Internet is very new. Actually, I think that is a very relevant
> response. The Internet would seem to be a very logical place for
> this type of information.
> 
> My guess is that the real reason is that too few of the 100,000 K12
> schools have basic internet access.
> 
> >So many reasons.  We lack pay mechanisms on the Internet.  Information
> >useful for procuring software is needed by teachers and administrators
> >who cannot pay $129 for the information on CD-ROM because of budget
> >cuts.  The value to society of information about software and reviews
> >from 50 magazines is underappreciated and the herd instinct causes
> >a feeding frenzy over some 20-30 products that are continually written
> >up in popular computer magazines, as the other 16,000 products are
> >mostly ignored.
> 
> I guess I would disagree that the reason is that we lack payment
> mechanisms or even that we do. Sales via credit card is common. Shareware
> is another common payment mechanism. Distribution costs on the internet
> are near 0, especially for the k12 usenet newsgroups. One or a few people,
> e.g. the staff of EPIE, can organize information produced from a large
> number of people, combining information from the authors of educational
> products with the reviews and comments from actual users (not just a paid
> reviewer).
> 
> Maybe the Educational Products Information Exchange *should* move
> to the Internet. I don't see how this nonprofit relates to government
> policy, except perhaps the focus on "high-end" technology.
> Maybe you are saying, "Why is the government (or telecom companies)
> funding expensive equipment like video to schools when they can`t
> afford $129 to help them locate educational materials for a used
> computer?"
> 
> Perhaps the schools would rather pay for a $30 magazine with 30
> products rather than a $129 CD.
> 
> It seems to me that nonprofits get much of thier revenue from
> contributions, e.g. membership fees. The internet offers a fantastic
> opportunity for nonprofits as the mainstream public begins to use
> it. Communication, a main resource for nonprofits, is very inexpensive
> using the internet. I would really like to see more nonprofits
> opening up and offering information freely accessable via internet.
> In too many cases, e.g. apc.org, they are a closed society which
> require membership payments before allowing access to thier information.
> 
> I am deluged with expensive junk mail, greeting cards, calendars, etc.
> for nonprofits which send stuff and ask for money. Yet, it is very
> difficult to find much about them. I would rather see what they do
> and see them providing a service, and then I am more likely to give
> a contribution if I think what they are doing is worthwhile.
> 
> >And remember, the less traditional the nonprofit cause, the harder it
> >is for a nonprofit to survive!  The United Way or AARP are heavily
> >supported, but these instutions do not usually share these funds
> >with a vanguard nonprofit.  In 1988 we felt fortunate to get all of
> >$5000 from AARP to study the possibilities of distance learning for
> >older Americans.  But we were unsuccessful in convincing AARP that
> >they had a role in helping shape that future!  They mainly wanted to
> >inform their members of what the business sector would be providing.
> 
> This sounds like a need for one of those community "centers" to educate
> the public for demand pull. What about senior net? Maybe you should just
> keep trying, write some articles for AARP and get some seniors
> using computers!
> 
> >We are not suggesting that this administration support any nonprofit
> >that hangs out their shingle, but to listen better to understand
> >what various nonprofits can provide in the development of our mutual
> >information future -- and leverage! their activities in assuring
> >accessibility and universal service.
> 
> I can't figure out what you are asking for. I would say that nonprofits
> can contribute a great deal to the "community" brought together by the
> NII. The government and telecom providers can help nonprofits participate
> in the NII by helping them obtain access. This could be accomplished
> for example, by grants of equipment, etc. to universities, community nets,
> or other nonprofits, etc. who in turn provide network access and
> support services to other nonprofit community service organizations.
> 
> There is a substantial amount of support for internet access to
> nonprofits. In the old days, e.g. a few years ago, email and netnews was
> usually free, as one company typically passed along mail for another, kind
> of like a favor. Now with more general access to the public, one
> usually must pay, but in return companies provide support service.
> Nonprofits can still get internet access if they know how to ask
> and how to setup thier computers.
> 
> Perhaps the Center for Information, Technology, & Society can help
> other nonprofits become network literate and join the world of
> cyberspace. The government could help nonprofits by using some of
> the NII research to fund educational materials and starter kits
> which are appropriate for schools and nonprofits, e.g. very low budget
> access using donated computers.
> 
> I think a significant policy issue for the NII Advisory Council is that we
> need an infrastructure to support the low-end, low budget needs of the
> nonprofits and K-12 schools. The title of the "HPPC" is fundamentally
> wrong. We don't need high performance gigabit networking, but we do need
> high access. Let's redirect some of the funding for high end technology
> into getting the mainstream public onto the net.  Instead of funding an
> hour of video between two users, we should use the money to let 100,000
> users send an email message!
>
You've raised two interesting problems which might have a mutual solution:
The lack of funds for educational institutions to get computer equipment
and the growing solid waste problem from discarded hardware and
peripherals.  Maybe the appropriate role for government is to held wed the
person who's about the throw the computer away and the person who'd be
glad to pay salvage value for it.
JOHN
HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!

From hn3010@handsnet.org  Wed Nov 23 09:37:52 1994
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From: hn3010@handsnet.org
Received: by sword.connectinc.com (4.0/Connect-Internet-Gateway)
	for avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov id AA14414; Wed, 23 Nov 94 06:30:39 -0800
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 94 06:30:39 -0800
Message-Id: <9411231430.AA14414@sword.connectinc.com>
Subject: RH [AVAIL-174] AVAIL digest 62 INTERNET 4k Nov 23I
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov


I agree with your comments regarding availability.  Those of us who are
scattered around the country in rural areas have little or no access to the
InterNet.  One other point that is very cruial to further development of
the system centers around the development of what I would term a
standardized telephone system in each town.  In our rural area, many towns
cannot even access a touch tone phone system, yet.  In some towns, it will
actually take 25 minutes to place a call--I timed it the other day whenever
I was trying to place an emergency call.  
    The InterNet has been an excellent resource for a small agency such as
ours and has dramatically brought our operations and efficiency into the
modern world.
                    Vernon Bond HN3010@handsnet.org


Sent: November 23, 1994	6:17 am PT

From jhav@cleo.bc.edu  Wed Nov 23 09:54:50 1994
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From: jhav@cleo.bc.edu
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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 21:48:53 +0000
Subject: Re: AVAIL digest 61
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
In-Reply-To: <199411231058.CAA11892@virtconf.digex.net>
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 Sok Sun Chang <schang@huey.csun.edu> writes:

>People have different worthiness and not everyone has the
>ability to transfer such worth to a measurable dollars presently.  
>
> [deleted]
>
>This means that a comprehensive method of measuring and maintaing some
>kind of point system (which can be earned/paid in dollars or services) is
>necessary.  This should be doable.  After all, computers are there to tally.
>
>Sok Sun Chang

But what you propose is still money, just another currency. Do we need two
currencies? Besides, if there is an exchange rate between the two (or if
dollars/work earns you points) then that is effectively putting a dollar amount
on what you indicate cannot be measured in dollars.

I think the difference lies in your dislike of what the market values in
general, however points will not solve your perceived inequality unless they are
given out, not earned. But giving out points is the same as giving people a
dollar-amount voucher for net use.

R.J.



From jamesm@satyrs.engr.CSUFresno.EDU  Wed Nov 23 11:36:44 1994
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	id AA13909; Wed, 23 Nov 94 08:28:46 PST
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 94 08:28:46 PST
From: jamesm@satyrs.engr.CSUFresno.EDU (James Martin)
Message-Id: <9411231628.AA13909@satyrs.engr.CSUFresno.EDU>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: 5 x 9 x 9 here, OM
Cc: jamesm

Reading you loud & clear here, old man.  I neglected, in my initial response,
to say that I am in Fresno, the proctological center of CALIFORNIA.
or was that "ack" ( xmitted 1994 Nov 22 14:40:57 ) your way of saying,
"Alright, already, no more responses, PLEASE!!!"?
From glidedw@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu  Wed Nov 23 14:56:40 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 11:48:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Glide Computers and You <glidedw@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
Subject: Minority Issues, and Concerns
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9411231109.A25209-0100000@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


To: National Info' Superhighway Conference

From: J. B. Saunders, Executive Director
       African-American Resource Machine
       995 Market Street, Third Floor
       San Francisco, CA 94103
       (415) 247-8777

As a North American African man, I am well aware of the lack of services 
available for socio-economically deprived people. In our technological age, 
basic telephone service is not even available to a majority of Blackmen in 
America, and were it not for Glide Church, and Rev. Cecil Williams, 
telecommunications would be a service that would never be accessible to the 
poor and downtrodden population in San Francisco (one of the most affluent 
and technologically advanced cities in the world). Mahatma Gandhi once 
stated: "A body of taxpayers can be deprived of their inherent right to use 
what is, after all, their own property in common with the rest. This is not a 
question of sentiment but one of deliberate deprivation of rights which have 
been paid for...."

At Glide's computer learning facility, a person with little or no money can 
receive advanced training in computer science that will empower them to 
compete in the job market, and become a contributing member in our highly 
competitive society. The Computers and You program at Glide is a model for 
our government to follow.

Through my participation in the computer training program at Glide, I am 
realizing my dream of developing my own information and resource 
networking organization: the African-American Resource Machine. What I'd 
like to do is connect with funding sources, acquire a computer setup, and get 
an office space, that would allow me to network with Blackmen in particular 
(the most "at-risk" population in our society), and other "hard-to-serve" 
populations in general. Poor people need as much help as they can get, so that 
they can eventually help themselves.

It is my opinion that the government should provide universal service to the 
Info' Superhighway, enabling everyone to have access. I would like to receive 
responses to my  communication from anyone who hears, understands, and 
appreciates what I'm saying; especially if you can be of help to me in my 
endevor to become successful and break  free from the revolving door cycle of 
pain and poverty. And anyone wishing to write  to me may do so at the 
above-listed address.

I am interested in interacting with people regardless of race, sexual-
orientation, creed, and/or  color.

Thank you.
From vcavail@latte.spl.lib.wa.us  Wed Nov 23 15:55:19 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 12:46:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Affordabilty and Availability <vcavail@latte.spl.lib.wa.us>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Affordability
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.91.941121204346.1399A-100000@latte.spl.lib.wa.us>
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I have been "playing" at the Internet for several months, first at SCN
then on NW Nexus.  Obviously, SCN has been wonderful, since it has
allowed me to learn at my own (slow!) pace, without worrying about
"wasting money".  I am presently on NW Nexus, since I purchased the
Internet Starter Kit which came with a coupon for 2 free weeks.  I 
am continuing to pay for it, for a while, because it allows so much m
more opportunity to learn all the plusses of the Internet.  Also, I
can telnet into SCN, quickly and without the busy signals, and
multiple "steps" (menu after menu) to get in.  I am willing to pay the
monthly fee for a short time, but unfortunately, I am not in a 
financial position to be able to continue at this rate for very long.
It seems a shame that those of us who are not "well off" cannot
reap the benefit of the whole Internet.  I am grateful that SCN is
there for us.  
###





"The above message was sent from the Seattle Public Library public access
point.  Though the Library is pleased to make this service available, The
views expressed in this message do not necessarily represent the position 
of the Seattle Public Library."

From hage@netcom.com  Wed Nov 23 16:13:26 1994
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From: hage@netcom.com (Carl Hage)
Message-Id: <199411232105.NAA26087@netcom8.netcom.com>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:139] AVAIL digest 38
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]

One thing to keep in mind is that digital transmission of text, e.g.
email is very efficient. For each user who sends email instead of fax
or telephone call, hundreds of additional users can send email in
the transmission resource saved.

Also, there is currenty unused fiber in the long distance trunks, i.e.
"dark" fiber. We can easily add more resource as needed. If users had
to pay the same rate for email as the same amount of data required
for long distance telephone, email would still be very cheap.

Access of gopher or www text is similar to email in effiency. Pictures,
voice/audio and video are, of course, much more expensive.
From hage@netcom.com  Wed Nov 23 17:24:20 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 14:16:43 -0800
From: hage@netcom.com (Carl Hage)
Message-Id: <199411232216.OAA05947@netcom8.netcom.com>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Re: [AVAIL:156] AVAIL digest 52
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]

: Regarding Carl's comments about getting revenues for educational consumer
: information, I think the comments are thoughtful but not practical.

The point I wanted to make was that the internet offers many new
possibilities for nonprofits and even individuals to reach out to each
other to share information and a advocate a cause. In fact, consumer
information is an ideal use of the internet. Some examples are restaurant
and movie reviews, recipes, etc. in various newsgroups and archive
servers. Getting information on ISDN products and services is nearly
impossible from the usual sources (64Kb digital phone service), but a
single volunteer has created a WWW page organizing virtually all products,
services, and standards in existence.

The catch is that not everyone knows about internet and where to look.
This is particularly a problem for K12 and nonprofits. As usage grows,
this will be less of a significant issue. However, organizations like
yours can make a significant difference.

The government (NII project) could also make a big difference in
educating the public and publicizing the use of the internet to disseminate
information and communicate. They are doing a pretty bad job now,
in my opinion, by the vague futuristic references to a "Superhighway".
The government should stop using these metophors, start using the term
"Internet" to refer to the NII, and start publicizing that they are and
will be using the Internet to make information available, and how it
will be important for everyone, business, governments, education,
and individuals, will want to get access.

[NTIA reviers: Please take note of the above.]

: As evidence I cite today's Boston Globe's article "Internet losses:
: The traditional rules don't apply in running on-line enterprises."
: Here the front page article describes many attempts of for profits
: in trying to use the Internet to make money.  The first story was about
: Laura Fillmore who bought the electronic rights to one of Stephen King's
: short stories.  "If she could persuade just a tiny fraction of all those
: Internet cruisers to pay $5 to download the King story, 'I figured it
: would do very well.'"  How many bought it -- "only dozens"  This didn't
: even pay for the effort of putting it up, let alone profit.

I'm not sure the story drew the appropriate conclusion. The traditional
rule says that if you offer a product or service that noone wants
or is priced too high, you won't sell. Internet user's aren't stupid,
and reading off a computer screen certainly isn't as convientient as
a paperback book. If I can buy a paperback for $5 at the grocery store,
why go to all that trouble to buy off the internet? If King makes a
$.50 royalty, and it costs a penny or two to publish on the internet,
does $5 make sense? It makes sense for King to sell it himself and
charge $1. He gets twice the royalty, and users pay 1/5 the price.

I continually see ignorant buinesses cropping up on the internet,
assuming the internet market works just like the paper world. For
example, the "Advertise on the Internet Here" announcements from
companies selling space for a WWW page for $60 per page per month
(the worst was $25,000!). The usual internet accounts for $20/mo
come with disk space for more than 1000 pages and additional space
is a few pennies per page. Just because these ripoff businesses fail
doesn't mean there are no opportunitites available.

The rules do change though. Consider a radical new marketing technique
used by mcom.com to introduce netscape, thier new WWW browser. They
offered a beta noncommercial version for free. Within the first week
they became the most popular browser in use, capturing a huge market
share. When they come out with the commercial version with more
features, they can sell direct to end users with virtually no
advertising budget. Even if only 50% of the users pay they still
come out way ahead! Similar kinds of radical changes will occur,
in my opinion, in the commercial ventures which will succeed. I
don't think we can predict them now, except to say that big changes
will occur. The particularly applies to non-profits. To be successful
on the internet, they will need to radically rethink thier way of
doing business.

In order to fare better in the grant review process, the internet is
a very good place to become better known to the peer groups involved
in reviewing a grant. You also get participation and suggestions from
others and can leverage off thier work. The internet is a very open
community, and it is easy to get involved. (Too easy, as I spend too
much time getting involved in too many places.)

I would guess the NSF and reviewers might be pretty net-aware, though
I would suspect the NTIA grants are probably issued by those who don't
use internet heavily or participate in the discussions there. (Anyone
from the NTIA want to speak up?) I think it is great for the NTIA to
begin leveraging off the NII now by hosting this conference. I suggest
that the NTIA and other organizations continue and expand usage of
the internet as a valueable tool.

In terms of grants the agencies could make the proposals available and
solicit general comments from the public where appropriate, and use that
to supplement the existing process. That might make for a more fair
distribution. Grants tend to be issued to those who are best at writing
(or know where to apply) applications and are with the "in" crowd, not
necessarily those who are most worthy. Better and more open communications
is the key to improving the process.

: This brings me back to the point of my last piece.  There needs to be
: a federal mechanism to fund higher risk, innovative proposals.  This
: can only occur when more people who are "low self-monitors" are actually
: involved in the project (see Boston Globe, 11/14/94 "Toeing the line up
: corporate ladder, p. 29.)

It might be difficult to ask that funding go to projects that reviewers
deem ower prioity, just based on risk. However it is reasonable that
there needs to be a mechanism to improve the process, and improve the
guidelines for the reviewers so arguments such as yours can be heard.
Hosting open discussion on a newsgroup or mailing list is a very effective
way to accomplish this.

: That article notes that many firms such as IBm, Eastman-Kodak, General
: Motors, and Digital Equipment Corporation have had so much trouble adapting
: to changing circumstances because they are populated with "high self-monitors"
: -- people who adapt themselves to those above them so that they are liked.

: They cite Steve Jobs "as a maverick who left one corporate employer because
: top managers there were't interested in his vision of a user-friendly personal
: computer."  And we know how that story goes.

The revolution of the information age brought upon by the NII will cause
a radical change in business and in government. Those who adapt will
survive and prosper. I really don't think we will end up with separate
classses, e.g. in the industrial revolution we created the working class
and the gentry. In the information age, I believe the GII will decrease
the gaps between the haves and have-nots. That applies to countries as
well. The result is that everyone will be better off, and especially the
earth as a whole when the public at large has the information accessable
to deal with managing our gobal ecosystem.

: As you can tell, I am a low self-monitor.  It may mean I never see
: a dollar from NTIA.  I have, instead, been quite outspoken about
: ways in which we think the process can be improved (and I have rent
: and a family to think about).

I believe it is good when more people are outspoken. The true key to the
GII is that everyone can be.

: |               W. Curtiss Priest, Ph.D.             *********************** |

-Carl
From hage@netcom.com  Wed Nov 23 17:49:17 1994
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From: Carl Hage <hage@netcom.com>
Subject:  What happens when usage expands?
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
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: There have been many eloquent and passionate opinions expressed here "
: regarding the potential role of public libraries and schools in providing "
: access to the Internet.  One major difficulty is that the hours during "
: which such institutions are available to the public are precisely those "
: hours when the net is already busiest.  Imagine 30,000,000 more daily "
: users during peak hours!"

One thing to keep in mind is that digital transmission of text, e.g.
email is very efficient. For each user who sends email instead of fax
or telephone call, hundreds of additional users can send email in
the transmission resource saved.

Also, there is currenty unused fiber in the long distance trunks, i.e.
"dark" fiber. We can easily add more resource as needed. If users had
to pay the same rate for email as the same amount of data required
for long distance telephone, email would still be very cheap.

Access of gopher or www text is similar to email in effiency. Pictures,
voice/audio and video are, of course, much more expensive.


From hage@netcom.com  Wed Nov 23 18:10:48 1994
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From: hage@netcom.com (Carl Hage)
Message-Id: <199411232303.PAA14836@netcom13.netcom.com>
To: avail@virtconf.ntia.doc.gov
Subject: Re: Minority Issues, and Concerns
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]


: From: J. B. Saunders, Executive Director
:        African-American Resource Machine

: It is my opinion that the government should provide universal service to the 
: Info' Superhighway, enabling everyone to have access.

But what does this mean? What do you think the government should provide?

To some, universal service means that everyone will have a fiber optic
cable or cable TV cable connected to thier home. We can have univeresal
hookups into a telecommunications network, but still not have access.

Your description of the computer facility at Glide Chucrh is a good
example of what is really means to provide universal "service". That
doesn't just mean a telecommunications line, but also computer
equipment and training, plus information resources at the other end.

The government should focus on facilitating help for programs such
as at Glide. The needs here are very different than the very high-end
focus of HPPC and most of the government programs involving communications
infrastructure research. We need to shift the emphasis from high
performance to high access.

I think a poor form of support is paying for a high speed communications
line (alone) or in providing an expensive single user computer. There
should be more support to coordinate community organizations with
technical support and programs and equipment suited to the low budgets
and used computers available.

[Sorry if I'm redundant in these messages, but the point needs to be
driven home. I would like to hear from others on what they think of the
way the existing research, development, testing, and publicity of the NII
has been prioritized by the government and major telecom suppliers. ]