RADIANCE DISCUSSION GROUP

This directory contains mail from the Radiance discussion group, for
those who are looking at old questions and answers exchanged among
users.


NOTE: As of August, 1997, the discussion group archives have become
part of the regular digest distribution.  This was done to reduce
overhead administrative time, and to be sure that all Radiance users
benefit from the valuable material discussed on both lists.


The files are organized by date, and all mail including subscription
requests is included.  In this way, users may at least learn when
someone new has signed on.

The dates are in simple YY_MM_DD format, for chronological listing,
and each file contains all mail between the last date and this one.

The file "current" contains all discussion group mail received since
the last dated file.

To subscribe to the Radiance discussion group, please send mail to
"radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov", saying you would like to subscribe.
There are two lists to which you may subscribe, the moderated
announcement and digest mailing list, and the unmoderated discussion
group.  Usually people subscribe either to the announcement list only,
or to both lists.

DO NOT SEND ADMINISTRATIVE REQUESTS TO THE LIST ITSELF.  It makes a
very poor introduction, since it says to people, "I don't even know how
to use a mailing list."  Being a novice is fine and good, but a novice
who doesn't read directions is rarely appreciated.

Also, just in general it is a good idea to subscribe to a list before
you send mail to it -- that way, you can see any responses(!).

The mailing list address is "radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov".

=========================================================
From greg Wed Sep 14 11:27:38 1994
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 94 11:20:31 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: radiance-discuss
Subject: New Radiance discussion group
Status: R

As you know if your received and read the Radiance digest I just posted,
I have decided to start an unmoderated discussion group for Radiance
users.

To get the group started, I went through my list of e-mail addresses
and picked out people I thought would be interested in such a group,
and your name was among them.

If you think I picked your name by mistake, please send mail to
radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov and tell me to remove you from the
list.

Thanks.
-Greg

From bcurrey@neumann.une.edu.au Wed Sep 14 16:19:54 1994
Return-Path: <bcurrey@neumann.une.edu.au>
From: Meridian <bcurrey@neumann.une.edu.au>
Subject: Hello all.....
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 09:15:15 +1000 (EST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 981       
Status: R

Hello people,

   Its good to see that this group has been formed, so I would like
to extend my own personal thanks to Greg for the time and effort he
puts into support for the software.

   Anyways, lets get the ball rolling. My first question to all the
radiance users is, "Who has a decent cloud texturing function?" Gensky
only produces a blue sky, and I would like to see some white fluffy
clouds....

  Thanks for any input....

  *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-*
  *   Boyd                          |  "Quick to Judge, Quick to Anger,     *
  *   bcurrey@neumann.une.edu.au    |     Slow to Understand.               *
  *   ------------------------------|   Ignorance, and Prejudice, and Fear  *
  *   University of New England     |     Walk Hand in Hand."               *
  *   Australia                     |                        -Neil Piert    *
  *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-*

From jlm@gauss.univ-mrs.fr Wed Sep 14 23:09:36 1994
Return-Path: <jlm@gauss.univ-mrs.fr>
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 08:08:42 +0200
From: Jean-Louis Maltret <jlm@gauss.univ-mrs.fr>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Status: R

SUBSCRIBE Jean-Louis MALTRET jlm@gamsau.cnrs-mrs.fr

From novebaru@inet.uni-c.dk Thu Sep 15 04:34:20 1994
Return-Path: <novebaru@inet.uni-c.dk>
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 13:34:28 +0200 (METDST)
From: Shaul Baruch <novebaru@inet.uni-c.dk>
Subject: Discussion Group 
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: R

Hi Greg,

I would like to subcribe to the Radiance Users Discussion Group.
My e-mail address: 
novebaru@inet.uni-c.dk

best regards 

Shaul.



From shirley@cs.indiana.edu Thu Sep 15 05:18:32 1994
Return-Path: <shirley@cs.indiana.edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 07:18:25 -0500
From: "peter shirley" <shirley@cs.indiana.edu>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: add me to the list
Status: R



Please add me to the list

shirley@cs.indiana.edu

From x450b05@rds1121.goodyear.com Thu Sep 15 06:51:25 1994
Return-Path: <x450b05@rds1121.goodyear.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 09:37:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Demerling <x450b05@rdsrv2.goodyear.com>
Subject: radiance discussion group
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: R

Please subscribe me (Eric Demerling) at edemerling@goodyear.com

Thank you in advance

Eric

 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Eric Demerling                                  edemerling@goodyear.com
  Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co.                      Applelink  goodyear.res
  Technical Computer Operations - Dept 450B       Voice      216.796.8700
  P.O. Box 3531                                   Fax        216.796.6247
  Akron, OH 44309-3531                            IBMMAIL    USGTRDS4           
  U.S.A.
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------



From matt.demsey@mccaw.com Thu Sep 15 13:22:37 1994
Return-Path: <matt.demsey@mccaw.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v112.1)
From: Matt Demsey <matt.demsey@mccaw.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 94 13:22:47 -0700
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Please subscribe me to the discussion list
Reply-To: Matt.Demsey@mccaw.com (Loki D. Quaeler)
Status: R



Thanks, (this is my most permanent mailing address) Matt.Demsey@Mccaw.com


thanks,
ldq

From mdonn@arch.vuw.ac.nz Thu Sep 15 13:34:36 1994
Return-Path: <mdonn@arch.vuw.ac.nz>
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 08:29:23 +1200
From: Mike Donn <mdonn@arch.vuw.ac.nz>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Status: R

subscribe mike.donn@vuw.ac.nz


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Donn                                       Phone	+64 4 802 6221
School of Architecture                             Fax   	+64 4 802 6204
Victoria University of Wellington                  e-mail mike.donn@vuw.ac.nz
PO Box 600
New Zealand

From artlite@iaccess.za Thu Sep 15 16:42:17 1994
Return-Path: <artlite@iaccess.za>
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 02:21:26 +0000
From: Artlite - Gavin Donaldson-Selby <artlite@iaccess.za>
Subject: Subscribe unmoderated discussion group
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: R

subscribe

From mdonn@arch.vuw.ac.nz Thu Sep 15 16:46:26 1994
Return-Path: <mdonn@arch.vuw.ac.nz>
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 11:46:09 +1200
From: Mike Donn <mdonn@arch.vuw.ac.nz>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Status: R

subscribe mike.donn@vuw.ac.nz



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Donn                                       Phone	+64 4 802 6221
School of Architecture                             Fax   	+64 4 802 6204
Victoria University of Wellington                  e-mail mike.donn@vuw.ac.nz
PO Box 600
New Zealand

From chas Thu Sep 15 16:53:45 1994
Return-Path: <chas>
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 94 16:47:40 PDT
From: chas (Charles Ehrlich)
To: radiance-discuss
Subject: Cloudy Sky Modelling
Cc: bcurey@neumann.une.edu.au
Status: R


Here, here for the nine+ years of work Greg has put into Radiance,
much of it on his own time!

A round of applause for the many devoted Radiance users who have 
suffered though a very difficult product development cycle and,
as tactfully as possible, told Greg what really needed to get done
with the software.  He and I discussed forming this group to
further elicit constructive feedback about how Radiance works and
what would make it work better.

So, don't hold anything back!  I plan to be checking in with this
list regularly.  I would like to see people post more than just
their questions hoping for answers...but also what great things
everyone has been able to accomplish with Radiance.

Now about sky modeling.  I don't have a cloud function, but what
has worked for me is to use a fisheye projection image of a sky
with clouds. Then map this onto the sky with a colorpict pattern.  
I don't have a fisheye camera to use, so I just drew one by hand with 
Adobe Photoshop.  I also created some trees and distant mountains with
snow-covered peaks for interest.  Check out any Astronomy or Sky and
Telescope magazine for a hint on how to do this...in fact, one could
scan in one of these constellation drawings and use it for a nighttime
sky (after cleaning-up a bit).

I'm re-creating this from memory because I can't find my original.
Please don't expect it to run without some tweaking.  The idea
came from Greg's Conference Room model in which a fisheye view was 
applied to a window.  (ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/models/conf.tar.Z) 

!gensky 9 15 12

skyfunc colorpict cloudpat
9 red green blue clouds.pic fisheye.cal fish_u fish_v -x 90 
0
0
#note 1, the -x 90 is to bring the coordinate system of the
#fisheye.cal function into alignment with the coordinate
#system of your fisheye view pixmap.  Specifics are left
#to the reader to figure out and verify.
#hint 1a, if you are assuming that you have taken an image from 
#a lens with exactly 180 degrees of view, the first (top) scanline of 
#the image file is tangent to a point in the north sky exactly
#at the horizon.  The center of our circular image is Zenith.
#note 2, the clouds.pic image has been exposure corrected
#to average with pfilt -e 1, two-pass.  
#note 3, I recommend adjusting
#the average brightness of the sky up a bit if you are trying
#to simulate clouds with bright reflections by placing a
#positive float value in the colorpict pattern above.  This
#correlates with my experience of some cloudy days (in SF)
#having much brighter skys than clear days because of cloud reflections.

cloudpat glow skyglow
0
0
4 .742 .719 1.00 -.5

skyglow source sky    
0
0
4 0 0 1 180

Hope you all find this useful, and fun.  If you'd like,
I'll hunt down my hand-drawn sky and install it on hobbes.
Greg's horizontally oriented fisheye pic is in the 
conference room distribution as skySconf.pic (the view from
the LBL, Building 90, third floor conference room).


-Chas
+-------------------------------+------------------------+
| Charles Ehrlich               |   Radiance Consulting  |
| Space & Light                 |   Lighting Analysis    |
| radiance@innernet.com         |   Daylighting Design   |
| 842 Folsom St. #197, SF, CA   |   Energy Efficiency    |
| 415 905-4438 24hr messages    |   Arch'tl 3D Modeling  |
+-------------------------------+------------------------+

From crones@puffin.curtin.edu.au Thu Sep 15 20:10:38 1994
Return-Path: <crones@puffin.curtin.edu.au>
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 94 11:01:03 WST
From: crones@puffin.curtin.edu.au (Simon "fish" Crone)
Subject: Re: Hello all.....
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Status: R

Greetings,

|>	   Its good to see that this group has been formed, so I would like
|>	to extend my own personal thanks to Greg for the time and effort he
|>	puts into support for the software.

That make at least two of us!

|>	   Anyways, lets get the ball rolling. My first question to all the
|>	radiance users is, "Who has a decent cloud texturing function?" Gensky
|>	only produces a blue sky, and I would like to see some white fluffy
|>	clouds....

I don't have fluffy clouds but I do have some sky pictures and a map
calculation file for mapping these pictures onto a source object.
They are available from the main radiance distribution site...

	ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/libraries/Rad_skies.tar.Z

Or a slightly more up to date version ( with added error checking ! )
can be obtained from my home WWW site..

	http://puffin.curtin.edu.au/~crones/radiance/Skymap/skymap.html

I have also turned some e-mail correspondance that I have had about
Radiance materials and function files into an html document.  There may
be some stuff in there of interest. Its URL is..

	http://puffin.curtin.edu.au/~crones/radiance/rad_lib.html

Finally ( as this mail is starting to look like a commercial :-) if you
are interested in computer based Architectural Visualisation
you might like to check out our image gallery. Its URL is..

	http://puffin.curtin.edu.au/gallery.html

Any feedback on any the above will be welcomed.

Regards,
SImon


________________________________________________________________________________
|                                                   |                          |
|  Simon Crone. - Masters Student.                  |   He who dies with the   |
|                                                   |    most toys - Wins!     |
|  Email:crones@puffin.curtin.edu.au                |                          |
|  http://puffin.curtin.edu.au/~crones/simon.html   |   ( Ancient coffee       |
|  Mail:School of Architecture and Planning,        |     mug proverb .... )   |
|       Curtin University of Technology,            |                          |
|       GPO Box U1987, Perth, Western Australia     |   Phone: +619 351-7310   |
|___________________________________________________|__________________________|

From mat@ccu1.auckland.ac.nz Thu Sep 15 23:41:42 1994
Return-Path: <mat@ccu1.auckland.ac.nz>
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 18:16:26 +1200 (NZT)
From: mat@ccu1.auckland.ac.nz (M Carr)
Subject: Hi, and re. fluffy clouds
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov (radiance discussion)
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 905
Status: RO

Hi

I mailed this to Meridian, and thought I'd make it available for all those
other sky modellers out there.


If you have a graphical WWW client then  have a look at
     http://archpropplan.auckland.ac.nz/Graphics/radiance/cloudy.html

This is a parametric sky colouring function that uses the noise functions
in Radiance to generate a pattern depending on the ray direction. It is
made to be used with source type geometry.

See also 
 http://archpropplan.auckland.ac.nz/Graphics/radiance/materials/materials.html


Byebye

Mat
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matiu Carr

School of Architecture Property and Planning
University of Auckland                            email: m.carr@auckland.ac.nz
New Zealand                           WWW: http://archpropplan.auckland.ac.nz/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Fri Sep 16 11:47:41 1994
Return-Path: <ballard@zen.wes.army.mil>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Radiance Discussion List
From: ballard@zen.wes.army.mil ( Jerry Ballard )
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 94 13:41:39 -0500
Sender: ballard@zen.wes.army.mil
Status: R


Hi Greg!

  Please add me to the unmoderated discussion list of Radiance users.

Thanks,
  Jerry Ballard

+-------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
| US Army Engineer WES          |                                   |
| Environmental Lab             | FAX:    (601) 634-3726            |
| ATTN: Jerry Ballard (WESEN-C) | Voice:  (601) 634-2946            |
| 3909 Halls Ferry Rd.          | e-mail: ballard@zen.wes.army.mil  |
| Vicksburg, MS 39180           |                                   |
+-------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
Any opinions given are my own and are in no way meant to reflect official
US Government, Department of Defense, or US Army Corps of Engineers
policies or positions.

    __*
   (________________________
                           /
                          /   
                       0 /o
                       []
                       |\
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From terry@CS.Scarolina.EDU Fri Sep 16 12:08:33 1994
Return-Path: <terry@CS.Scarolina.EDU>
From: Terry Huntsberger <terry@CS.Scarolina.EDU>
Subject: subscribe
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 15:07:13 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 33        
Status: R

subscribe terry@cs.scarolina.edu

From vanwyk@mail.unm.edu Fri Sep 16 12:38:03 1994
Return-Path: <vanwyk@mail.unm.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 94 13:37 MDT
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: vanwyk@mail.unm.edu (Skip Van Wyk)
Status: R

subscribe unmoderated



From phils@MIT.EDU Fri Sep 16 12:42:58 1994
Return-Path: <phils@MIT.EDU>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Pic placing in autocad.
Reply-To: phils@MIT.EDU (Philip R. Thompson)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 15:38:18 EDT
From: +----------------------+-------------------------------------------+ <phils@MIT.EDU>
Status: R


If you find placing pictures to be rather hit or miss on
non-orthoganal surfaces and use autocad/ADS (not autolisp),
then I may have a routine for you.
It involves compiling ADS C code.  At some point I may get
around to removing ADS dependencies, but I don't plan on
getting to that any time soon so I'd best make it available now.

Included is an more generic affine registration routine for
transforming objects in autocad.
I'd like to initially mail it individuals before making it
generally available via ftp

Philip


From pburns@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU Fri Sep 16 13:07:45 1994
Return-Path: <pburns@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 14:07:26 -0600
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: pburns@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (Pat Burns)
Status: R

subscribe
****************************************************************
                Pat Burns
Director of Westnet   &  Department of Mechanical Engineering
303/491-7260             303/491-6120
303/491-1958 (FAX)       303/491-1055 (FAX)
         Colorado State University
          Fort Collins, CO 80523
            pburns@westnet.net
****************************************************************


From armj@MIT.EDU Fri Sep 16 13:18:33 1994
Return-Path: <armj@MIT.EDU>
From: armj@MIT.EDU
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward)
Subject: Re: your message 
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 94 16:18:17 EDT
Status: R

Thanks for your reply. I want to subscribe to the Radiance-related
mailing list.

- Sorry I have some problems unloading at the moment -
- I hope it works now -

Axel

From vohwi-d@acsu.buffalo.edu Fri Sep 16 14:02:35 1994
Return-Path: <vohwi-d@acsu.buffalo.edu>
From: "David A. Vohwinkel" <vohwi-d@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: Please subscribe
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 17:01:57 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 313       
Status: R

Please add me to all radiance groups.

	Thanks

	-Dave-
-- 
  David A Vohwinkel        
Unix Consulting   ^ ^     vohwi-d@acsu.buffalo.edu
  & Operations    0 0    @ The State University of New York at Buffalo   
--------------oOO-(_)-OOo----------------------------------------------------
                  \-/

From vinberg@cc.helsinki.fi Fri Sep 16 14:23:03 1994
Return-Path: <vinberg@cc.helsinki.fi>
From: Olli Vinberg <vinberg@cc.helsinki.fi>
Subject: discussion list
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 1994 00:22:31 +0300 (EET DST)
Reply-To: Olli@cc.helsinki.fi, Vinberg@cc.helsinki.fi,
        <vinberg@cc.helsinki.fi>
Organization: Kampela-Club
Reply-To: Olli.Vinberg@Helsinki.FI
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Length: 327       
Status: R

I'd like to subscribe to the discussion-list.

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
-   Olli Vinberg (AMIGO)     --   The University of Helsinki       -
-   vinberg@cc.helsinki.fi   --   Department of Computer Science   -
--------------------------------------------------------------------

From emo@cica.cica.indiana.edu Fri Sep 16 20:37:24 1994
Return-Path: <emo@cica.cica.indiana.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 94 22:37:18 -0500
From: "Eric Ost" <emo@cica.cica.indiana.edu>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: subscribe radiance-discuss
Status: R

subscribe radiance-discuss


From jeremy@pollock.ece.curtin.edu.au Sat Sep 17 00:02:45 1994
Return-Path: <jeremy@pollock.ece.curtin.edu.au>
From: Jeremy <jeremy@pollock.ece.curtin.edu.au>
Subject: Unmoderated sign-up.
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 94 15:02:41 WST
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
Status: R

Hiya Greg, 
          Yup, this is a request from another blind sheep to be added to your 
unmoderated mailing list of simulated reality, :).
                       
                        Thanks,
                               Jeremy
                               IMAGE Technology Group,
                               Electronic Engineering,
                               Curtin University of Technology,
                               Perth, Western Australia, Australia.

From @TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL:ARRGEDI@TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL Sun Sep 18 05:14:08 1994
Return-Path: <@TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL:ARRGEDI@TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL>
Date:         Sun, 18 Sep 94 14:11:32 IST
From: Guedi Capeluto <ARRGEDI@TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL>
Subject:      Subscribe Radiance discussion list
To: Greg Ward <radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Status: R

Please, subscribe me to the Radiance discussion list.

Guedi Capeluto-Fac. of Architecture. Technion IIT.
e-mail: arrguedi@technion.technion.ac.il

Thanks,
-guedi.

From dave@metapro.metapro.DIALix.oz.au Sun Sep 18 19:04:06 1994
Return-Path: <dave@metapro.metapro.DIALix.oz.au>
From: dave@metapro.metapro.DIALix.oz.au (David Eddy)
Subject: Subscribe
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 09:23:51 +0800 (WST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 235       
Status: RO


SUBSCRIBE David Eddy dave@metapro.DIALix.oz.au

Greg,

Please subscribe me to the radiance mailing list.
By the way, I _love_ radiance!

--
David Eddy, Metapro Systems Pty Ltd. -- dave@metapro.DIALix.oz.au
#include <std/disclaimer.h>

From mgix@jpn.thomson-di.fr Sun Sep 18 19:04:53 1994
Return-Path: <mgix@jpn.thomson-di.fr>
From: mgix@jpn.thomson-di.fr (Emmanuel Mogenet)
Subject: subscribe
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 10:37:46 +0900 (JST)
Reply-To: mgix@jpn.thomson-di.fr
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 30        
Status: RO

subscribe mgix@thomson-di.fr


From sk8@liverpool.ac.uk Mon Sep 19 00:35:10 1994
Return-Path: <sk8@liverpool.ac.uk>
From: "Mr. M.J. Lupton" <sk8@liverpool.ac.uk>
Subject: subscribe
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 08:34:40 +0100 (BST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 89        
Status: RO

please subscribe me to the radiance discussion list.

Martin Lupton 
sk8@liverpool.ac.uk

From msz_ibp@IPA.FhG.de Mon Sep 19 00:47:01 1994
Return-Path: <msz_ibp@IPA.FhG.de>
Sender: msz_ibp@IPA.FhG.de
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 09:04:34 EDT
From: "Michael Szerman; Fraunhofer-Institut f Bauphysik"
      <msz_ibp@venus.IPA.FhG.de>
Reply-To: MSZ@IBP.FhG.de
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: discussion list
Status: RO


Hi Greg,

please put me on the RADIANCE discussion list. 

- Michael


From @ib.rl.ac.uk,@iona.strath.ac.uk,@esru.strath.ac.uk:jon@sigma Mon Sep 19 00:48:06 1994
Return-Path: <@ib.rl.ac.uk,@iona.strath.ac.uk,@esru.strath.ac.uk:jon@sigma>
Via: uk.ac.strath.iona; Mon, 19 Sep 1994 08:44:58 +0100
Via: esru.strath.ac.uk ([130.159.232.19]); Mon, 19 Sep 94 08:46:53 BST
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 08:43:25 +0000
From: jon@sigma (Jon Hand)
To: radiance-request <radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Subject: discussion list
Content-Length: 148
Status: RO


Please add me to the Radiance discussion list.
Thanks,

Jon Hand
ESRU
Energy Systems Division
University of Strathclyde
Glasgow

jon@strath.ac.uk


From jbi@de-montfort.ac.uk Mon Sep 19 01:22:54 1994
Return-Path: <jbi@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Mon, 19 Sep 1994 09:22:47 +0100
From: J B Ignacio <jbi@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 94 09:22:15 BST
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Status: RO

Hi

I'd like to sign up to the unmoderated discussion group:

(radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov

Thanks,

Joven Ignacio
jbi@dmu.ac.uk

From neilt@spl.co.za Mon Sep 19 02:49:06 1994
Return-Path: <neilt@spl.co.za>
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 11:50:37 +12000
From: Neil Thompson <neilt@spl.co.za>
Subject: subscribe unmoderated
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO

subscribe unmoderated neilt@splinux.spl.co.za

From nfotis@theseas.ntua.gr Mon Sep 19 03:05:44 1994
Return-Path: <nfotis@theseas.ntua.gr>
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 13:05:50 +0300
From: "Nick C. Fotis" <nfotis@theseas.ntua.gr>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Subscription request
Status: RO


Hi,

I would like to be added in the unmoderated Radiance mailing list.

Greetings,
Nick.
PS. Expect to see your changes in the next version of the Resource Listing.

From kathrin@prehp.physik.uni-oldenburg.de Mon Sep 19 09:01:51 1994
Return-Path: <kathrin@prehp.physik.uni-oldenburg.de>
From: kathrin schwarz <kathrin@prehp.physik.uni-oldenburg.de>
Subject: discussion
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 94 18:01:18 MESZ
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
Status: R

Hi,
please send me the moderated discussion list.
Thanks,
Kathrin Schwarz
adress: kathrin@prehp1.physik.uni-oldenburg.de

From stuart.lewis@lascaux.arch.gatech.edu Mon Sep 19 09:11:39 1994
Return-Path: <stuart.lewis@lascaux.arch.gatech.edu>
X-Sender: stuart@archsun.arch.gatech.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 12:16:54 -0400
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: stuart.lewis@lascaux (Stuart Lewis)
Subject: subscribe radiance-discuss
X-Mailer: <Windows Eudora Version 2.0.2>
Status: RO

Please subscribe me to "radiance-discuss".

Stuart Lewis
Georgia Institute of Technology

stuart.lewis@arch.gatech.edu



From peters@ERC.MsState.Edu Mon Sep 19 09:15:55 1994
Return-Path: <peters@ERC.MsState.Edu>
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 11:17:30 -0500
From: Dana Peters <peters@ERC.MsState.Edu>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: subscribe
Status: RO

Greetings,
	Please add my name to the list of your mailing list subscribers.

Thank You,
-Dana Peters
peters@erc.msstate.edu

From mibarra@galois.dgaesc.unam.mx Mon Sep 19 10:32:36 1994
Return-Path: <mibarra@galois.dgaesc.unam.mx>
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 11:36:39 -0600 (CST)
From: Luis M Ibarra <mibarra@galois>
Subject: Subscribe unmoderated
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Length: 49
Status: R

Please join me to the unmoderated list.

Tanhks!

From johne@cc.gatech.edu Mon Sep 19 17:31:22 1994
Return-Path: <johne@cc.gatech.edu>
From: johne@cc.gatech.edu (Johne Parker)
Subject: Radiance discussion list
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 20:31:13 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 139       
Status: RO

I'd like to subscribe to the new unmoderated Radiance discussion list
-- please sign me up!

Thanks! 
Johne' Parker
(johne@cc.gatech.edu)


From HXZZDUBIELJ@CLUSTER.NORTH-LONDON.AC.UK Tue Sep 20 04:48:16 1994
Return-Path: <HXZZDUBIELJ@CLUSTER.NORTH-LONDON.AC.UK>
Via: uk.ac.north-london.cluster; Tue, 20 Sep 1994 12:45:45 +0100
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 12:45 BST
From: HXZZDUBIELJ@CLUSTER.NORTH-LONDON.AC.UK
To: radiance-request <radiance-request@HOBBES.lbl.gov>
Subject: request for inclusion
Status: RO

I sent an email yesterday, to be included on the unmoderated discussion
group mailing list. I am not sure whether or not this reached you, but
would like to go on the list (not twice, could you check please?)



Also I would be grateful if you would let me know what size mailbox
I should request from the vax operators, to minimise the chances of 
bouncing and subsequent removal from the mailing list.

My address is:    hxzzdubielj@uk.ac.unl.clstr

Hoping to soon receive your reply,

Jo

From jmchugh@carbon.lance.colostate.edu Tue Sep 20 06:05:00 1994
Return-Path: <jmchugh@carbon.lance.colostate.edu>
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 07:04:31 +0700
From: jmchugh@carbon.lance.colostate.edu (Jon McHugh)
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re:  daylighting references & radiance digest
Cc: pburns@carbon.lance.colostate.edu
Content-Length: 602
Status: RO

Yes, please put Dr. Burns on the discussion group as well as the moderated mailing list. Dr. Burns and I have been working on a similar Monte Carlo
program called DAY3D and I think there may be some interesting cross-fertillization of ideas.

______________________________________
|         Jonathan R. McHugh          |
|   Dept. of Mechanical Engineering   |
|      Colorado State University      |
|       Fort Collins, CO 80523        |
|          (303) 491-7479             |
|          (303) 491-1055 FAX         |
| jmchugh@carbon.lance.colostate.edu  |
---------------------------------------

From greg Tue Sep 20 10:08:26 1994
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 10:01:35 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: radiance-discuss
Subject: Radiance Discussion Group Archive
Status: R

I have created an ftp archive directory for Radiance Discussion Group
e-mail.  It's in the /pub/discuss directory on hobbes.lbl.gov (128.3.12.38),
and it contains all list-related e-mail, including subscription requests.

As we are adding many new users to this list at this point, most of you
missed what went out early on the list.  Rather than repeating mail to
everyone, I ask that you grab it from our anonymous ftp server if you
want to be brought up to date.

I will update this directory from time to time as I see necessary, and
hope it will serve as a record of our discussions so we don't all have
to keep a big mailbox lying around.  (Lord knows I have enough of those
already.)

I will also put in a link on our Radiance WWW server to this directory,
so that Mosaic users can access it conveniently.

-Greg

From lazo@bf2.bouw.tno.nl Wed Sep 21 00:13:48 1994
Return-Path: <lazo@bf2.bouw.tno.nl>
From: lazo@bf2.bouw.tno.nl (Laurens Zonneveldt)
Subject: 
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 09:13:33 +0200 (MET DST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL5]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 252       
Status: R

Please subscribe me to the discussion list.

Laurens Zonneveldt

TNO-TUE Centre for Building Research
University of Technology
P.O. Box 513
5600 MB Eindhoven
The Netherlands

Phone : +31 40 47 28 14  | Fax   : +31 40 43 85 95
Email : lazo@bouw.tno.nl 

From erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at Wed Sep 21 03:56:37 1994
Return-Path: <erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at>
From: Erwin Zierler <erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at>
Subject: Subscription
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 12:58:20 +0200 (METDST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 322       
Status: R

I want to subscribe to the unmoderated Radiance discussion list.
(since there seems to be no special syntax reqired I formulated a sentence :-)
Thank you!

Erwin
-- 
>>> Erwin Zierler  erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at         University of Innsbruck  <<<
>>> WWW:           http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/erwin/                 Austria  <<<

From Martin_Moeck@macmail.lbl.gov Wed Sep 21 08:37:18 1994
Return-Path: <Martin_Moeck@macmail.lbl.gov>
Date: 20 Sep 1994 11:58:31 -0800
From: "Martin Moeck" <Martin_Moeck@macmail.lbl.gov>
Subject: 1. Linux  2.roughness
To: "r r" <radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Status: RO

                      1. Linux  2.roughness
Has anyone of you experience in running Radiance under Linux on PC's? If so,
does it run smoothly? 

Here is a question for Greg:
Is roughness something like a micro-perturbation of the surface normal, where
the spacing (frequency) of the indentations is pretty much fixed, but the
degree of roughness is determined by the depth of the indentations? if that
should be the case, I am wondering about he following renedring peculiarity in
rview:

I have a glossy sphere with 0 roughness, and a cylindrical lightsource with 
say 1 meter length gives a clear long highlight on the sphere. If I add the
slightest amount of roughness to the surface, the highlight form changes from
cylindrical to a small point source. 
Any recommendations how this can be fixed?

Martin Moeck
Lawrence Berkeley Lab.
Building Technologies Program
Windows and Daylighting Group
Berkeley, CA
email: mmoeck@lbl.gov



From cloister@u.washington.edu Wed Sep 21 18:31:11 1994
Return-Path: <cloister@u.washington.edu>
X-Sender: cloister@mead1.u.washington.edu
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 18:23:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: cloister bell <cloister@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: 1. Linux 2.roughness
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO

> Has anyone of you experience in running Radiance under Linux on PC's? If so,
> does it run smoothly? 

yes, it does.  the install script handled everything just fine, there were
no compilation problems, and performance (on a 100mhz 486dx4, 16mb ram)
has been comparable (if a little slower than) performance on a DEC 5000/240. 
 

From vohwi-d@acsu.buffalo.edu Wed Sep 21 19:28:31 1994
Return-Path: <vohwi-d@acsu.buffalo.edu>
From: "David A. Vohwinkel" <vohwi-d@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: 3DS to rad converter?
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 22:19:37 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 351       
Status: RO

Hi,
	Does anyone know of a 3DS to radiance converter? Or of a way to
do it?

	Thanks

	-Dave-
-- 
  David A Vohwinkel        
Unix Consulting   ^ ^     vohwi-d@acsu.buffalo.edu
  & Operations    0 0    @ The State University of New York at Buffalo   
--------------oOO-(_)-OOo----------------------------------------------------
                  \-/

From chas@innernet.com Wed Sep 21 23:16:02 1994
Return-Path: <chas@innernet.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 94 22:10:41 PDT
From: Charles Ehrlich <chas@innernet.com>
Subject: Linux
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
X-Mailer: LeeMail 2.0.4
Status: RO

Martin,

I have a 486/66 PC with 20 MB RAM and Linux v .91x.  Radiance installed
without a single hitch.  My only complaint is that my mouse in X Windows
sometimes acts like its on drugs and slides all the way to the edge of the 
screen even though I haven't moved it.

Rpict runs about 30% faster than my Sun Sparc IPX (with 48 MB RAM).
But pfilt runs about 50% slower!  I talked to Greg about this and he 
seems to think that Linux might not have some of its file IO optimized 
very well.  I think this just shows the weakness of the Intel chip in 
floating point math.

I plan to get a Pentium 90 for my next machine.

-Chas

+-------------------------------+------------------------+
| Charles Ehrlich               |   Radiance Consulting  |
| Space & Light                 |   Lighting Analysis    |
| radiance@innernet.com         |   Daylighting Design   |
| 842 Folsom St. #197, SF, CA   |   Energy Efficiency    |
| 415 905-4438 24hr messages    |   Archt'l 3D Modeling  |
+-------------------------------+------------------------+


From jst_ibp@mars.IPA.FhG.de Thu Sep 22 00:48:34 1994
Return-Path: <jst_ibp@mars.IPA.FhG.de>
Sender: jst_ibp@mars.IPA.FhG.de
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 09:47:25 EDT
From: jst_ibp@mars
Reply-To: JST@IBP.FhG.de
To: %mx%"radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov"@mars
Subject: Subscription for RADIANCE discussion list
Status: RO


Hi Greg,

of course I want to sign up for the RADIANCE discussion list! So I kindly ask
you to put me on this list.

All the best,

- Juergen


**********************************************
Juergen Stoffel
Fraunhofer Institute of Building Physics
Division of Heat Technology
Nobelstrasse 12
70569 Stuttgart
Tel +49 711 970 3327
Fax +49 711 970 3399
e-mail: jst@ibp.fhg.de
**********************************************



From dkatplzx@ibmmail.IBMMAIL.COM Thu Sep 22 01:53:11 1994
Return-Path: <dkatplzx@ibmmail.IBMMAIL.COM>
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 04:52:54 EDT
From: dkatplzx@ibmmail.COM
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: 
Status: RO

  
  
  
  
  
  
Please sign me up for the discussion list. My address is
  
   dkatplzx@ibmmail.com
  
and my name is Hans Kilian
  
Thanks in advance.

From vohwi-d@acsu.buffalo.edu Thu Sep 22 07:04:57 1994
Return-Path: <vohwi-d@acsu.buffalo.edu>
From: "David A. Vohwinkel" <vohwi-d@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: 3dStudio, BRL-CAD to Radiance converters
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 09:58:03 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 702       
Status: RO

I'm sorry if I was unlcear in my last message. I am looking for a 
AutoDesk's 3dStudio to Radiance converter. Or maybe a round-about way of
doing such a conversion.

	On a side note ... Has anyone used BRL-CAD from the US-Government?
How is it, and can it be converted to Radiance?

	I really like Radiance but I find it really hard to make 
scenes for. Are there any good books or papers describing the language?

	Thanks for any info

	-dave-
-- 
  David A Vohwinkel        
Unix Consulting   ^ ^     vohwi-d@acsu.buffalo.edu
  & Operations    0 0    @ The State University of New York at Buffalo   
--------------oOO-(_)-OOo----------------------------------------------------
                  \-/

From meyer@arch.ethz.ch Thu Sep 22 09:18:49 1994
Return-Path: <meyer@arch.ethz.ch>
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 18:17:42 +0200
From: Vital Meyer <meyer@arch.ethz.ch>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Status: RO

requesting subscription

thanks	vital

From bill@probe1.prbj.ulst.ac.uk Fri Sep 23 03:08:04 1994
Return-Path: <bill@probe1.prbj.ulst.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 11:06:02 GMT
From: Philip William Griffiths <bill@probe1.prbj.ulst.ac.uk>
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re: Radiance discussion list
Cc: bill@probe1.prbj.ulst.ac.uk
Status: RO


Greg,

Yes, I'd be interested in being on the Radiance discussion list.

Concerning importing buildings into Radiance.

I see that there is a arch2rad command to convert Architrion text files
to Radiance descriptions

Are there future plans to produce an Autocad dxf > Radiances convertor?

Philip Griffiths

From stuart@archsun.arch.gatech.edu Fri Sep 23 08:29:36 1994
Return-Path: <stuart@archsun.arch.gatech.edu>
From: Stuart Lewis <stuart@archsun.arch.gatech.edu>
Subject: Re: 3DS
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 11:21:02 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL13]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 659       
Status: RO

> 	Does anyone know of a 3DS to radiance converter? Or of a way to
> do it?
> 

I haven't personally done this conversion, as I have little use for 3DS in
my work.  I _do_ know that you can export 3DS entities in .DXF format. 
>From there you could use the DXFTORAD (sp?) conversion utility.

If you're using ACAD, I have been very pleased with the Autocad to
Radiance autolisp script developed by the folks at the ETH.  It's called
TORAD, and is in the usual place for these things at hobbes.lbl.gov.

Hope this helps,

Stuart Lewis
Georgia Institute of Technology
-- 
"No mas!  No mas!"         -Roberto Duran [?]

stuart.lewis@arch.gatech.edu
404 894 3821

From Martin_Moeck@macmail.lbl.gov Wed Sep 21 08:37:18 1994
Return-Path: <Martin_Moeck@macmail.lbl.gov>
Date: 20 Sep 1994 11:58:31 -0800
From: "Martin Moeck" <Martin_Moeck@macmail.lbl.gov>
Subject: 1. Linux  2.roughness
To: "r r" <radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Status: RO

                      1. Linux  2.roughness
Has anyone of you experience in running Radiance under Linux on PC's? If so,
does it run smoothly? 

Here is a question for Greg:
Is roughness something like a micro-perturbation of the surface normal, where
the spacing (frequency) of the indentations is pretty much fixed, but the
degree of roughness is determined by the depth of the indentations? if that
should be the case, I am wondering about he following renedring peculiarity in
rview:

I have a glossy sphere with 0 roughness, and a cylindrical lightsource with 
say 1 meter length gives a clear long highlight on the sphere. If I add the
slightest amount of roughness to the surface, the highlight form changes from
cylindrical to a small point source. 
Any recommendations how this can be fixed?

Martin Moeck
Lawrence Berkeley Lab.
Building Technologies Program
Windows and Daylighting Group
Berkeley, CA
email: mmoeck@lbl.gov



From pburns@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU Fri Sep 23 12:05:00 1994
Return-Path: <pburns@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 13:04:29 -0600
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward)
From: pburns@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (Pat Burns)
Subject: Re: subscribe
Status: R

At  1:10 PM 9/16/94 -0700, Gregory J. Ward wrote:
>You're now on the unmoderated discussion group.
>-Greg

Thanks, Greg.

Regards,
Pat
****************************************************************
                Pat Burns
Director of Westnet   &  Department of Mechanical Engineering
303/491-7260             303/491-6120
303/491-1958 (FAX)       303/491-1055 (FAX)
         Colorado State University
          Fort Collins, CO 80523
            pburns@westnet.net
****************************************************************


From matgso@ironduke.CS.Gsu.EDU Fri Sep 23 12:15:01 1994
Return-Path: <matgso@ironduke.CS.Gsu.EDU>
From: matgso@ironduke.CS.Gsu.EDU
Subject: subscribe
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 15:09:09 -0500 (EDT)
Cc: matgso@ironduke.CS.Gsu.EDU ()
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 93        
Status: R

Please subscribe me to the Radiance discussion list.

Scott Owen
matgso@ironduke.cs.gsu.edu


From mmanoles@srv_gc.univ-lr.fr Sat Sep 24 03:09:36 1994
Return-Path: <mmanoles@srv_gc.univ-lr.fr>
From: Mircea_Manolescu <mmanoles@srv_gc.univ-lr.fr>
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 94 12:11:49 +0200
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: discussion group
Status: RO


	Congratulations, it is a great idea !

	Please put MIRCEA (mmanoles@srv_gc.univ-lr.fr) 

	on the unmoderated discussion list.

	Thanks, Mircea.

From jz@corbu.cnrs-mrs.fr Mon Sep 26 11:44:41 1994
Return-Path: <jz@corbu.cnrs-mrs.fr>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 20:41:45 +0000
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: jz@gamsau.cnrs-mrs.fr (zoller Jacques)
Status: R

subscribe Jacques Zoller

----------------------------------------------------------------------
   Jacques Zoller|
   gamsau - Ecole d'architecture de Marseille Luminy
   184 av de luminy   -  13288 MARSEILLE cedex 9

   email : jz@gamsau.cnrs-mrs.fr
   tel : 91 82 71 64    (secreteriat : 71 70)   fax  91 82 71 71
-----------------------------------------------------------------------






From Hiller@tu-harburg.d400.de Tue Sep 27 04:19:47 1994
Return-Path: <Hiller@tu-harburg.d400.de>
X400-Received: by mta osi-west.es.net in /PRMD=ESnet/ADMD= /C=US/; Relayed;
               Tue, 27 Sep 1994 04:19:18 +0000
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               Tue, 27 Sep 1994 04:20:46 +0000
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               Wed, 28 Sep 1994 00:18:48 +0000
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 00:18:48 +0000
X400-Originator: Hiller@tu-harburg.d400.de
X400-Recipients: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=tu-harburg/ADMD=d400-gw/C=de/;<9409271118.AA07150@MinasTirith.]
X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2)
Content-Identifier: Subscribe
From: " (Thomas Hiller hs20 3448)" <Hiller@tu-harburg.d400.de>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Subscribe
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Content-Length: 386
Status: R

Hello Greg,

please subscribe me to both mailing lists.

hiller@tu-harburg.d400.de

Thanks,
Thomas


Dr. Thomas Hiller                     email: hiller@tu-harburg.d400.de
TU Hamburg-Harburg
Zentrallabor Informations- und Kommunikationstechnik
Harburger Schloss-Str. 20                       Tel.: +49-40-7718-3448
D - 21071 Hamburg                               Fax : +49-40-7718-2579

From erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at Tue Sep 27 10:47:02 1994
From: Erwin Zierler <erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at>
Return-Path: <erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at>
Subject: Archives 
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 17:36:35 +0200 (METDST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 762       
Status: R

Hi all!

This is my first post to this group and I'm pretty curious how many people
are already subscribed :-)
Now to my concern: I have gathered some textures over the last years and
wondered if anyone else might have done the same. In my opinion it could
save us some effort (like browsing huge picture archives) if we started
sharing these textures. I would also be willing to set up an ftp (gopher/www)
site to store useful data and make them accessible for all Radiance users.
I could also imagine to share geometry objects. 
Well, that's it for now. Curious to hear your opinion!
Regards

Erwin
-- 
>>> Erwin Zierler  erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at         University of Innsbruck  <<<
>>> WWW:           http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/erwin/                 Austria  <<<

From @TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL:ARRAY01@TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL Tue Sep 27 22:59:11 1994
Return-Path: <@TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL:ARRAY01@TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL>
Date:         Wed, 28 Sep 94 07:45:43 IST
From: Abraham Yezioro <ARRAY01@TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL>
Subject:      Re: Radiance textures
To: "Gregory J. Ward" <greg@hobbes.lbl.gov>
X-Acknowledge-To: <ARRAY01@TECHNION>
Status: R

Hi, Erwin (and all)!
In your distributed mail you "complain" about possible useless effort
trying to define textures that maybe someone else already has. I'm agree with
you, and hope that the idea will succeed.
As for my own, i have just a few months using Radiance, so i basically
use some defined textures and stuff related. But ..., you also asked:

>> I could also imagine to share geometry objects.

At this respect I've already uploaded some modeling functions, and they are
located in Greg's node (in pub/generators i guess). One of the functions
is for generating different kinds of membranes, another one is for
generating wedge primitives, and the last one is for generating any kind of
square based pyramids (genshell, genwedge and genpyr). The last two are
really new and not full proved, so I'm interested in getting some
feedback about them in order to fix, add or anything else to them (this
is a request to all the interested).
Again, hope your idea will succeed.
Regards,
Abraham
array01@technion.technion.ac.il

From vohwi-d@acsu.buffalo.edu Tue Oct  4 09:30:47 1994
Return-Path: <vohwi-d@acsu.buffalo.edu>
From: "David A. Vohwinkel" <vohwi-d@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: New XFree86-3.1
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 12:22:17 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 479       
Status: R

Hi,
	The new XFree-3.1 has support to display 15/16 bit color for my 
graphics card. I was wondering if Radiance will take advantage of that fact?
If not is there anything that I can do so that it will?

	Thanks

	-Dave-

-- 
  David A Vohwinkel        
Unix Consulting   ^ ^     vohwi-d@acsu.buffalo.edu
  & Operations    0 0    @ The State University of New York at Buffalo   
--------------oOO-(_)-OOo----------------------------------------------------
                  \-/

From greg Tue Oct  4 10:09:54 1994
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 10:01:26 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov, vohwi-d@acsu.buffalo.edu
Subject: Re:  New XFree86-3.1
Status: R

Hi Dave,

I'm not sure this is an appropriate topic for the discussion group, plus
I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about.  When you mention 15/16 bit
color, do you mean with or without a color table?  As you may know, X11
offers many, many (too many) different display "visuals," which determine
how colors are handled.  Rview and ximage do their best to accommodate
these different visuals, but there are limits and most of my effort has
been spent on supporting the most common types.  These visual types are
generally one of:  24-bit truecolor, 8-bit pseudocolor (color table lookup),
8-bit greyscale, and 1-bit monochrome.  Rview supports all but 1-bit
monochrome, and ximage supports all of these types.

If your 15/16-bit color is pseudocolor (i.e. uses a color table), then both
rview and ximage will use only 256 entries and it will look just like 8-bit
pseudocolor.  Even if the 15/16-bit color is truecolor (or directcolor),
rview and ximage will prefer to use an 8-bit psuedocolor type if it's still
available.  (I learned this by checking the code -- I've never tried it.)

I hope this answers your question.  I doubted anyone else could help, which
is why I responded.  The only other person who's hacked on the X11 code to
my knowledge is Philip Thompson of MIT.  Anything to add, Philip?

-Greg

From chas Wed Oct  5 14:19:20 1994
Return-Path: <chas>
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 94 14:08:44 PDT
From: chas (Charles Ehrlich)
To: radiance-discuss
Subject: Color Graphics Cards and Radiance
Status: R


David,

I'm wondering if you might have confused the data path size to the
graphics card (ie 16 bit ISA card has a 16 bit data path?) from
the number of bits per pixel which your card supports.  The number
of bits per pixel usually has more to do with the amount of available
video RAM installed on the card than anything else.

Since Rview and Ximage do not support 16 bits per pixel (32K colors)
you might try adding more VRAM to your graphics card to bring it up to
24 bits per pixel or 16 Million colors.  This should not cost more than
$100.00 US.

Having the 16 bits does give you the ability to have more than one
pseudo-color, 8 bit (256 color) image on the screen at the same time
without Radiance (or X11 or the OS) having to fight over color
tables.  This is my big complaint about my SparcStation IPX.  Really
great and fast 8 bit color (CG3).  The only 24 bit color card I can
find costs $2000+ dollars and takes up both S-Bus slots!

-Chas

From artlite@iaccess.za Mon Oct 10 12:53:54 1994
Return-Path: <artlite@iaccess.za>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: artlite@iaccess.za (Gavin Donaldson-Selby)
Subject: Problem with RAYPATH
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 1994 19:46:18 -0500
Lines: 32
Status: R

Greetings

If anyone who has installed Radiance on a Linux machine can
explain to me why ximage (for example) can not find specified
files, I would be grateful. I have installed the binaries to
/usr/local/bin, and the library files to /usr/local/lib/ray.

My .login contains 

setenv RAYPATH .:${HOME}/ray/lib:/usr/local/lib/ray.


On " env " I get

RAYPATH=.:/home/gavin/ray/lib:/usr/local/lib/ray
 

The same library files may be found in both above dierctories. 

ximage will display the files only if the above diectories are
current.

Thanks in advance
                
Gavin.


GH Donaldson-Selby               Department of Drama and
                                 Theatre Craft
Fax. SA 27 31 223405             Technikon Natal
Ph.  SA 27 31 225 2194           Durban 4001
                                 Republic of South Africa.

From greg Mon Oct 10 12:59:57 1994
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 94 12:59:20 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: artlite@iaccess.za
Subject: Re:  Problem with RAYPATH
Status: R

Hi Gavin,

I hope you don't expect ximage to find picture files to display from the
given library locations.  The RAYPATH variable is not even used by ximage
as far as I know.  It's only used by other programs to find .cal and .pic
files for patterns and textures, etc.  Ximage displays only files for
which you give the explicit path.

-Greg

From artlite@iaccess.za Mon Oct 10 16:21:37 1994
Return-Path: <artlite@iaccess.za>
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 01:05:07 +0000
From: Artlite - Gavin Donaldson-Selby <artlite@iaccess.za>
Subject: Re: Problem with RAYPATH
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: R



Greetings (again)

Please ignore previous message. The mistake was mine (sheepish look), 
my thanks to Greg.

Regards
Gavin.

From Martin_Moeck@macmail.lbl.gov Tue Oct 11 08:55:01 1994
Return-Path: <Martin_Moeck@macmail.lbl.gov>
Date: 10 Oct 1994 15:21:09 -0800
From: "Martin Moeck" <Martin_Moeck@macmail.lbl.gov>
Subject: Radiance presentations
To: "rad jk" <radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov>
X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP/QM 3.0.0
Status: R

Hello all,

can you explain how you make 
1. slides   2. videos    3. color printouts 
from your Radiance pictures? What medium do you prefer for presentations? Any
recommendations / hints for the necessary hardware?

Also: Any recommendations to produce scanned images for use in the Radiance
colorpict type?

Thanks in advance

Martin Moeck
Building Technologies Program
Lawrence Berkeley Lab.
email:  mmoeck@lbl.gov




From bill@probe1.prbj.ulst.ac.uk Wed Oct 12 01:29:01 1994
Return-Path: <bill@probe1.prbj.ulst.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:18:48 GMT
From: Philip William Griffiths <bill@probe1.prbj.ulst.ac.uk>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: slides and colour printouts
Status: R

Martin

I use the ra_pict and ra_tiff commands in radiance to produce Mac PICT
and TIFF files.  I then transfer them by disk from my Sun to the Mac where
I use Canvas to produce colour prints and slides.

Philip Griffiths
centre for Performance Research on the Built Environment
University of Ulster
email: p.griffiths@ulst.ac.uk

From shankerj@Imageman.COM Thu Oct 13 17:00:45 1994
Return-Path: <shankerj@Imageman.COM>
Posted-Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 19:00:51 -0500
Channel-Security: UNSECURE <gatekeeper.imageman.com>
Channel-Exposure: EXTERNAL
Crypt-Code: PLAINTEXT <NON-CDE-XXX01>
Errors-To: postmaster@Imageman.COM
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 18:59:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: Shanker Janakiraman <shankerj@Imageman.COM>
Subject: Subscription to unmoderated group
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: R

include me

shankerj@imageman.com



From katti@pcuf.fi Sat Oct 15 11:35:36 1994
Return-Path: <katti@pcuf.fi>
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 20:35:58 +0200
From: katti@pcuf.fi (Harri Ronkko)
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject:  
Status: R

request mailinglist.  E-mail Address : katti@pcuf.fi

From @grenfell.demon.co.uk:dataplan@dplan4 Tue Oct 18 17:07:30 1994
Return-Path: <@grenfell.demon.co.uk:dataplan@dplan4>
From: Data Plan IT Ltd <dataplan@dplan4.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 16:30:24 -0700
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.1.0 22feb94 MediaMail)
To: GJWard@lbl.gov
Subject: Inventor to Radiance
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Mime-Version: 1.0
Status: RO

My Company is involved in modelling and visualising kitchens and other domestic
interiors using our own software based on the SGI Inventor toolkit.

I've recently been looking at the Radiance rendering package as a means of
producing a more faithful rendering of our scenes and am very impressed by what
I've seen to date.

Are you aware of any work that has been done in converting SGI Inventor models
directly into the Radiance format?  It would seem that the two were made for
each other.

Regards Des Grenfell

PS
would you be kind enough to CC to Desmond@grenfell.demon.co.uk as I'm not sure
if I've got my email address sorted out yet.


From greg Wed Oct 19 09:36:04 1994
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 94 09:34:53 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: Desmond@grenfell.demon.co.uk, dataplan@dplan4.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re:  Inventor to Radiance
Status: R

Hi Des,

I, too, am interested in a converter from Inventor to Radiance.  Unfortunately,
SGI does not provide any decent documentation of this format, expecting you
will use their class library, something I do not wish to do because I want
the translator to work on all machines without royalties.

If you have a good handle on the ASCII Inventor file format, perhaps you
could write a translator yourself?  Radiance input, at least, is very easy
to interpret and express in Inventor format.  I don't know about the other
way, though.  It seems that parsing the Inventor file format
requires a fair degree of sophistication, and we may be stuck with the
Inventor toolkit to go from Inventor to Radiance.

I'm going to copy your e-mail to the Radiance discussion group
<radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov> along with this response, in hopes
that some users out there have already tackled this problem.

The chief incompatibilities between Inventor and Radiance are the
parametric shapes Radiance doesn't support directly (you should use
gensurf to make them) and the physical reflection models that Inventor
doesn't support at all (which will have to be approximated).

-Greg

From stavridi@fys.ruu.nl Thu Oct 20 01:54:10 1994
Return-Path: <stavridi@fys.ruu.nl>
From: "M. Stavridi" <M.Stavridi@fys.ruu.nl>
Subject: RADIANCE
To: GJWard@lbl.gov
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 09:54:15 +0100 (GMT+0100)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 84        
Status: R

I would like to be on the discussion list as well.

Thank you for your help

Marigo

From greg Thu Oct 20 12:27:35 1994
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 12:19:42 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: matthews@aaa.uoregon.edu, radiance-discuss
Subject: Re:  FW: A question about Inventor
Cc: greg
Status: R

Anyone know what Richard is talking about?  Please discuss this on the
discussion group (use Reply rather than reply on most mailers) so that
we can come to some conclusions as a collective.

-Greg

------------------
>From matthews@aaa.uoregon.edu Thu Oct 20 11:49:42 1994
Return-Path: <matthews@aaa.uoregon.edu>
Date: 20 Oct 1994 11:47:18 -0800
From: "Matthews, Kevin" <matthews@aaa.uoregon.edu>
Subject: FW: A question about Inventor
To: "Ward, Gregory J." <greg@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Status: R

Greg,

I've got a grad. student here who's been working with Inventor.  He hasn't
gotten into Radiance yet (he will!) so I don't think he can really add much,
but his thoughts are following.

By the way, I'll be showing some Radiance images at the ACADIA conference in
St. Louis this weekend.  I wouldn't be surprised if others are too.  I'm
still excited about MacRadiance--I've just been swamped by tankerfuls of dumb
stuff and haven't been able quite focus on it.  I really want to get it going
and will be in touch.

--KMM
_______________________________________________________________________________
From: Coutts, Richard on Wed, Oct 19, 1994 11:03 PM
Subject: RE: A question about Inventor
To: Matthews, Kevin

Though my experience with the file formats is somewhat limited, it did look
fairly straight forward - the ASCII format is basically  pseudo C++ code for
generating the scene graph.  The documentation is especially limited in this
area, but there are library functions for generating code for an existing
scene graph, so if you wanted to decipher the file format for a specific
technique it would be a matter of coding it up in C++ and then making a
function call to generate the corresponding file.  Unless I'm missing
something here, the deciphering should be straight forward from there.
Sorry I've never dealt with Radiance files.


From ruben@visgraf.impa.br Thu Oct 27 09:52:38 1994
Return-Path: <ruben@visgraf.impa.br>
From: ruben@visgraf.impa.br (Ruben Zonenschein)
Subject: sign up
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 14:11:38 -0200 (EDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 130       
Status: RO

I would like to sign up for the unmoderated Radiance discussion
list.

Thanks,

Ruben Zonenschein
e-mail : ruben@visgraf.impa.br


From greg Fri Oct 28 09:22:22 1994
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 09:13:22 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: radiance-discuss
Subject: mail from Hiller
Status: R

The following message is being forwarded by request...

>From Hiller@tu-harburg.d400.de Fri Oct 28 01:40:10 1994
From: " (Thomas Hiller hs20 3448)" <Hiller@tu-harburg.d400.de>
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: parallel version of radiance ?

Hello Greg,

I tried two times to send the following message to radiance-discuss, but I
always get a "message delayed" and "message could not delivered" in return.
Can you please forward it to the discuss group?
Thanks in advance
	Thomas

----- Begin Included Message -----

>From hiller Thu Oct 20 08:57 MET 1994
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 08:57:53 --100
From: hiller@MinasTirith.cip2b.tu-harburg.de (Thomas Hiller hs20 3448)
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: parallel version of radiance ?

Hello,

I'm interested in a parallel version of radiance (preferable based on pvm or
mpi). Does anyone know of such a version ?

My target architecture is not a workstation cluster but a parallel computer,
which offers a pvm interface. I already read the article from greg about 
rpiece, but this doesn't work in my environment.

Another article I found was written by someone from SUN (I don't remember his
name). He ported rview to SUN threads. Is this software public available ? It
could be a good starting point.

Thanks in advance,
Thomas

Dr. Thomas Hiller                     email: hiller@tu-harburg.d400.de
TU Hamburg-Harburg
Zentrallabor Informations- und Kommunikationstechnik
Harburger Schloss-Str. 20                       Tel.: +49-40-7718-3448
D - 21071 Hamburg                               Fax : +49-40-7718-2579


----- End Included Message -----


###########################################################################

I'm curious why rpiece doesn't work, actually.  Is there no lock manager,
or is it an NFS problem?  Rpiece does work on multiprocessors as well
as networked machines -- at least that was the idea.  Did you try
defining NFS=0 or otherwise customizing rpiece already?

-Greg

From emo@cica.cica.indiana.edu Fri Oct 28 09:39:28 1994
Return-Path: <emo@cica.cica.indiana.edu>
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 11:38:24 -0500
From: "Eric Ost" <emo@cica.cica.indiana.edu>
To: hiller@tu-harburg.d400.de, greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re: parallel version of radiance ?
Status: R

Thomas,

Which parallel system are you using?  Is it an Intel Paragon?

Are you using Intel's pvm environment?

rpiece does not work on the Intel Paragon unless you alter the
I/O mode such that all writes into the shared image output file are 
synchronized.

W/o using I/O sync mode, you will end up with only one segment
of the image present in the file -- all the others go into the
bit bucket.

This synchronization problem probably also exists on other flavors
of multiprocessing systems.

Have you run rpiece on more than one variety of multiprocessing system?

I'd be happy to share the info I have discovered regarding how to
rememdy the file I/O problem.

Of course, this may not be the problem you are encountering...
I'd be happy to help in any case...

eric



From harald.backert@rrzc1.rz.uni-regensburg.de Tue Nov  1 10:33:18 1994
Return-Path: <harald.backert@rrzc1.rz.uni-regensburg.de>
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 94 19:32:48 +0100
From: Harald Backert <Harald.Backert@rz.uni-regensburg.de>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: add
Status: R

Please add me to the unmoderated Radiance discussion list.  Thank you.
Harald

From hedley@compsci.bristol.ac.uk Wed Nov  2 08:56:32 1994
Return-Path: <hedley@compsci.bristol.ac.uk>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: subscribe....
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 94 16:55:05 +0000
From: David Hedley <hedley@compsci.bristol.ac.uk>
Status: RO


Please can you subscribe me to the Radiance mailing list

thanks


David

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| David Hedley (David.Hedley@bris.ac.uk) | All programmers are playwrights |
| Computer Graphics Group                | and all computers are lousy     |
| University of Bristol                  | actors                          |
| England                                |                       - Anon    |
|          *** All opinions expressed are mine and mine alone ***          |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From phils@MIT.EDU Fri Nov  4 13:23:32 1994
Return-Path: <phils@MIT.EDU>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Beta testers for autocad "radout" wanted.
Cc: phils@MIT.EDU
Reply-To: phils@MIT.EDU (Philip R. Thompson)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 1994 15:54:42 EST
From: "Philip R. Thompson" <phils@MIT.EDU>
Status: R


Dear Radiance / Autocad Users,

I have written an Autocad to Radiance converter in ADS/C called
"radout".  It runs much like "torad" and "dxfout". That is, from
within autocad only.  I am looking for some beta testers out there
who know how to compile unix C code and modify makefiles to suit their
sites and are willing to let me know of any problems.  We have been
using radout for about 6 months now without any major problems. 
Those interested can hpefully test it on difficult models and
reports any unix incompatibilities before I make it generally
available via ftp.

Radout is largely based on Georg Mischler's "torad" lisp program -
which provided the inspiration and the understanding of autocad's
workings.  Methodically, it is almost identical - with sorted lists
of objects and their hierarchy lists.  No need to explode models, etc.
However, there are changes:

  o  it being compiled C, executes 2-4 time faster.
  o  it produes simple rif files for immediate input to rad.
  o  it has some fixed transformation stuff.
  o  it has different arc/bulge approximations (a la Graphics Gems).
  o  it has other minor algorithmic differences.

It is still under part-time development - with the next feature being
smoothing (now that is is supported better in radiance).
Send me mail if you're interested and I will mail it to you.

Philip  Thompson
phils@mit.edu

From francois@dbmreflex.qc.ca Wed Nov  9 09:10:21 1994
Return-Path: <francois@dbmreflex.qc.ca>
From: francois lauzon <francois@dbmreflex.qc.ca>
Subject: Re:  subscribe
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward) (Gregory J. Ward)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 12:01:18 EST
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
Status: R

please subscribe me to the unmoderated group.

Thank you!

From ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Thu Nov 10 11:17:30 1994
Return-Path: <ballard@zen.wes.army.mil>
To: GJWard@lbl.gov (Greg Ward)
Subject: Radiance Discussion List
From: ballard@zen.wes.army.mil ( Jerry Ballard )
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 94 13:06:31 -0600
Sender: ballard@zen.wes.army.mil
Status: R


Hi Greg.

  Sorry to bother you, but I haven't received any mail from the new
radiance discussion list.  Am I on the list? or perhaps there hasn't
been any discussion yet.

Thanks,
  Jerry Ballard


+-------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
| US Army Engineer WES          |                                   |
| Environmental Lab             | FAX:    (601) 634-3726            |
| ATTN: Jerry Ballard (WESEN-C) | Voice:  (601) 634-2946            |
| 3909 Halls Ferry Rd.          | e-mail: ballard@zen.wes.army.mil  |
| Vicksburg, MS 39180           |                                   |
+-------------------------------+-----------------------------------+


From u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de Wed Nov  9 11:09:08 1994
Return-Path: <u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de>
From: u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de
Subject: subscribe Georg Mischler
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 20:07:56 +0100 (MET)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 58        
Status: RO

subscribe Georg Mischler u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de


From photoclb@rorqual.cc.metu.edu.tr Tue Nov 15 08:52:09 1994
Return-Path: <photoclb@rorqual.cc.metu.edu.tr>
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 18:49:42 +0300 (MEST)
From: nergis dincer photoclb <photoclb@rorqual.cc.metu.edu.tr>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: R

subscribe radiance-user Photo Club in METU

From jromera@dolmen.tid.es Wed Nov 16 06:53:24 1994
Return-Path: <jromera@dolmen.tid.es>
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 15:53:37 --100
From: jromera@dolmen.tid.es (Juan Romera Arroyo)
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Discussion Group
Cc: 
Status: R

Please, subscribe me.

Juan Romera Arroyo             jromera@dolmen.tid.es

Best Regards



From karner@fcggsg30.tu-graz.ac.at Wed Nov 16 10:02:14 1994
Return-Path: <karner@fcggsg30.tu-graz.ac.at>
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 18:58:29 +0100 (MET)
From: Konrad Karner <karner@fcggsg30.tu-graz.ac.at>
Subject: Subscribe
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: R

Hi Greg,

please subscribe me to the unmoderated discussion group.

Thank you!

Konrad Karner
karner@icg.tu-graz.ac.at



From greg Thu Nov 17 13:26:18 1994
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 13:16:21 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: radiance-discuss
Subject: forwarded mail
Status: R

>From francois@dbmreflex.qc.ca Thu Nov 17 11:12:27 1994
Return-Path: <francois@dbmreflex.qc.ca>
From: francois lauzon <francois@dbmreflex.qc.ca>
Subject: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov does not work ???
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 13:17:22 EST
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
Status: R

I Greg, 
	I've been trying twice to send a message, and there is a problem
	but I don't know which one, so here I send you the message I get back:
	
--------- START -------------

radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov... Unexpected close while awaiting SMTP reply from hobbes.lbl.gov
radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov... Deferred

   ----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: by dbm8.dbmreflex.qc.ca
        (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA00841; Mon, 14 Nov 1994 11:22:44 -0500
From: francois lauzon <francois@dbm8.dbmreflex.qc.ca>
Return-Path: <francois@dbm8.dbmreflex.qc.ca>
Subject: Radiance to Intensity ???
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 94 11:22:43 EST
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]

Hi Greg, hi people, 

I work for a company called DBM Reflex.  We're doing rear car lenses, and we 
plan to use Radiance to predict the intensity produce by the car lense.  First,
we want to make a small prototype and compare the intensity mesured with 
Radiance (if we can find a way to convert) with those calculated on a real 
car lense.

The visuals pictures we've got are very interesting, and we really think that 
Radiance will work for us. 

I have a parabolic reflector with a bulb in the focal point. Using rtrace I can
get the radiance value in a specific direction. What I would like to do, is to 
convert the radiance value to an intensity value (in candelas). Is there 
any way to convert easily a RGB radiance value to an intensity value.  

I'd appreciate any information anyone can give me.

Thanks,
Francois Lauzon, francois@dbmreflex.qc.ca

--------- END  -------------


You can see that there is a 'deferred' problem.  Can you put the message to the 
radiance-discuss, and tell me what I did wrong.


Thank you!
Frank.

>From greg Thu Nov 17 11:21:50 1994
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 11:21:30 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: francois@dbmreflex.qc.ca
Subject: Re:  radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov does not work ???
Status: R

Hi Francois,
       '
I don't know why your mail isn't getting through, but perhaps it's just as
well.  I hate to inform you of this, but Radiance is not really a good
solution to your problem.  The software is designed to follow light
backwards, and what you really need is a forward Monte Carlo ray tracer.
I hope to work on such a thing myself, but I have no guess yet as to when
I might finish.

In the meantime, there are commercial products available for this task
from Lighting Technologies in Boulder, Colorado (call 303-449-5791 and
ask about FiELD), and Lighting Sciences in Scottsdale, Arizona (call
602-991-9252 and ask about Raymaster), and Breault Research Organization
in Tucson Arizona (call 1-800-882-5085 and ask about ASAP).

I will post your question if you really want me to, but the answer may
be found in the back issues of the Radiance Digest, I believe.  It depends
what you mean by "intensity."  (You must tell me what units you want.)

-Greg

>From francois@dbmreflex.qc.ca Thu Nov 17 13:06:33 1994
Return-Path: <francois@dbmreflex.qc.ca>
From: francois lauzon <francois@dbmreflex.qc.ca>
Subject: Candelas unit
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward) (Gregory J. Ward)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 15:57:08 EST
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
Status: R

Hi Greg,

Thank you for the answer!

I've looked in the Radiance Digest before I wrote this last mail,
and I didn't find anything about that.  We want to find the intensity 
in candelas unit in different direction and I have a parabolic reflector
with a bulb in the focal point.

We we're thinking about sending a lot of ray with rtrace.  The rays would be
generate from a plane in space, in front of the reflector.  Using the formula
"Intensity = Luminace * Area * cos (teta)", we could find all the dI (intensity)
for each plane element and find the final Intensity along a direction by
adding all those dI.  Then we have the intensity for a direction.

So I was thinking that there may be an easier way to do this.  


Thank, 
Frank.

P.S. Can you post my last question please. 


----------------------------------------------------

Just a final note, the following formula converts from radiance units
(watts/steradian/meter^2) into luminance (lumens/steradian/meter^2) using
RGB values out of Radiance:

	179 * (.265*R + .670*G + .065*B)

I still stand by my previous assertion that Radiance is not well-suited to
this type of reflector simulation, but perhaps there are those of you who
have feelings or experience to the contrary.

-Greg

From Martin_Moeck@macmail.lbl.gov Fri Nov 18 08:48:32 1994
Return-Path: <Martin_Moeck@macmail.lbl.gov>
Date: 17 Nov 1994 15:39:17 -0800
From: "Martin Moeck" <Martin_Moeck@macmail.lbl.gov>
Subject: Reflector computations
To: "r a" <radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov>
X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP/QM 3.0.0
Status: RO

Hello Francois,

you should not use Radiance to simulate complex luminaires. In case you want to
do it for simple light sources:

1. set up points of measurement around the luminaire. Make shure that their
distance to the luminaire is at least 5 times the maximum dimension of the
light source, if you want to have a file that is somewhat independent of
application distance.

2. Determine the coordinates of the center of the light source and the
direction vectors from the points of measurement to the light source center. 

3. make a file "samples.inp" that looks like the following:
x_coordinate_of_point_of_measurement    y_coordinate_of_point_of_measurement  
z_coordinate_of_point_of_measurement   x_direction_vector    y_direction_vector
z_direction_vector ...
(for all the points of interest)

4. run the following:
rtrace -ovl -I ...accurate parameters... scene.oct < samples.inp > irradiance
out

This will give you irradiance values and the distance D of each point of
measurement to the center of the luminaire.
To get intensity in candela, do the following:
Illuminance = 54*Red+106*Green+20*Blue
Intensity = Illuminance/ (D * D)

This procedure works only for luminaires in black spaces. If you wanted to get
intensities from the luminaire positioned in a reflective space, you would have
to produce false-color pictures from the points of measurement with the viewing
direction of the direction vectors as mentioned above. You will run into a
problem, however. The luminance of the luminaire may vary from 0 to 20000 cd/m2
or more. To get an average value out of this requires weighting each pixel's
luminance by its area. Once you get that value, you have to multiply it by the
steradian as defined by the viewpoint and the projected area of the luminaire.

Hope this helps - Greg, correct me if I'm wrong with the conversion of
irradiance to illuninance.

Martin Moeck
Lawrence Berkeley Lab
Building Technologies
MS 90-3111
Berkeley, CA 94720
e-mail mmoeck@lbl.gov



From u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de Tue Nov 22 01:06:50 1994
Return-Path: <u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de>
From: u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de
Subject: Job wanted
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 21:15:11 +0100 (MET)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1645      
Status: RO

Hi all,

I am known to the Radiance user community as the author of the
"torad" Autocad to RADIANCE translator.
I have finished my architectural studies two years ago and
since then worked in a lighting design studio as a CAD expert,
application developer, network manager and assistant designer.
In my studies and in my work, I have relied heavily on CAD and
many different visualisation software packages for animation,
visualisation and lighting simulation. Autocad and RADIANCE have
been the most important tools for my work up to now, running on
several unix platforms and the Macintosh.

Now, as my present task approaches completion, I am looking for
a new challenge, possibly not too far away from the field of
architecture and lighting, where I could apply my expertise on
the above mentioned fields for the next few years. The more new
things I can learn at the same time, the happier I will be.

I'd appreciate any information on possible positions, be it in
application or in research. Location doesn't really matter, as
long as I can get a working permission and people there at least
understand german or english (or maybe french).


forwarding myself to the future

Georg Mischler    u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de
-------------------------------------------------


Please send your info to one of the adresses below:

    Georg Mischler
    Andreestrasse 9
    80364 Muenchen
    Germany
    E-Mail:  u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de
    Private: ++49/89/167 53 60
    Office:  ++49/89/724 06 315

Possible Contact:

    G. Mischler
    Seltisbergerstrasse. 20
    4059 Basel
    Switzerland
    E-Mail:  mischler@arch.ethz.ch


From Martin_Moeck@macmail.lbl.gov Tue Nov 22 10:01:41 1994
Return-Path: <Martin_Moeck@macmail.lbl.gov>
Date: 21 Nov 1994 08:58:58 -0800
From: "Martin Moeck" <Martin_Moeck@macmail.lbl.gov>
Subject: correction luminaire simula
To: "radiance  discuss" <radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov>
X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP/QM 3.0.0
Status: R

Hello , 
 sorry - I found a mistake:
Intensity = Illuminance* (D * D)
where D is in meters and Illuminance is in lux. Cos Theta cancels out since
measurements are taken in the direction to the light source.


Martin Moeck
Lawrence Berkeley Lab
Building Technologies
MS 90-3111
Berkeley, CA 94720
e-mail mmoeck@lbl.gov




From Alexander.Ivanov@comlab.oxford.ac.uk Mon Nov 28 08:58:38 1994
Return-Path: <Alexander.Ivanov@comlab.oxford.ac.uk>
Via: uk.ac.oxford.comlab; Mon, 28 Nov 1994 15:10:50 +0000
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 15:07:40 +0000 (GMT)
From: Alexander Ivanov <Alexander.Ivanov@comlab.oxford.ac.uk>
Subject: put me on the list please
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: R


Hi Greg!
Hi Radiance Fellows!

don`t you mind putting me on the Radiance  mailing list? Please do it...

Regards,

Alexander

From greg Wed Nov 30 09:37:45 1994
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 94 09:27:53 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: radiance-discuss
Subject: forwarded mail
Status: R

For some reason, people are having trouble posting to radiance-discuss@hobbes.
I don't know what the mailer error is or how to fix it, unfortunately.  Sorry
about that -- it's just not my area of expertise.  Anyway, you can send your
mail to me if it bounces and I'll forward it to the list.

---------------------------
Hi all,

what I would like to know is if someone has already tried to install and run 
Radiance on a Silicon Graphics Power Challenge(with IRIX 6.0).
I got an account last week (for testing) and now I wonder if it's much of a
problem to compile it on such a system. I of course want to use the compile-
optimizations to make the executables as fast as possible and also take
advantage of the 4 CPU's (and 1 Gigabyte RAM) of this machine. Looking through
the online manuals of the Power Challenge I saw alot of possible compiler
options which allow to optimize the code and generate fast executables. 
Unfortunatly I know much too less about C and programming in common to decide
where it makes sense to apply these optimizations and where not. Some general
rules for changing the Rmakefiles would be enough to get me started I guess.
Another question is wether I should use the 64bit or the 32bit compile option.
Alot of questions, uhg!
As I understand from reading the article about 'Parallel Rendering' from Greg
I can use 'rpiece' and render the images in pieces distributing them on the 4
CPU's. Well, I have to figure out how to run a certain process on a certain CPU
before I play around with this I guess :).(I have done renderings with 'rpiece
on our Indigo cluster (6 RS4000) already, so I know the basics).
Any hints are very much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Erwin

-- 
>>> Erwin Zierler  erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at         University of Innsbruck  <<<
>>> WWW:           http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/erwin/                 Austria  <<<

------------------------------
Just to throw in my 2 cents worth, I haven't noticed much difference in
speed between 32-bit and 64-bit compiles.  In fact, with IRIX 5.x at least,
64-bit seems to be slower than 32-bit under IRIX 4.x.  I don't pretend to
know why.  Also, certain compiler optimization flags can cause code to
break in undetermined ways, and they will later crash with no sign of
where the error occurred.  I have had this happen to me personally, and
it is most frustrating trying to isolate the problem.  When I find it,
it's usually a very innocuous-looking bit of code that the compiler chokes
on for no apparent reason, leaving me no idea how to fix it other than to
change the optimization flag back to what it was.

As for parallel rendering, it shouldn't be necessary to assign processes
to processors.  The system should load-balance processes automatically.

-Greg

From emo@cica.cica.indiana.edu Wed Nov 30 18:25:04 1994
Return-Path: <emo@cica.cica.indiana.edu>
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 94 21:13:26 -0500
From: "Eric Ost" <emo@cica.cica.indiana.edu>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Radiance on SGI Power Challenge
Status: R

Erwin (and the Radiance list),

>what I would like to know is if someone has already tried to install and run 
>Radiance on a Silicon Graphics Power Challenge(with IRIX 6.0).

Yes, we have done this here at CICA/TCVC.  The Computer Science Department
permitted Rob Shakespeare and I to use their 20 CPU SGI Challenge for a
period of time.  

Summary opinion:  the 20 CPU SGI is *quite* a nice rendering "engine" and, 
in general, a nice shared-memory, multi-processor system.

>I of course want to use the compile-optimizations to make the executables 
>as fast as possible and also take advantage of the 4 CPU's (and 1 Gigabyte 
>RAM) of this machine. 

I believe that the "rmake" produced by Greg's "makeall" script worked just fine
on the 20 CPU Challenge.

Note that "SPEED" was tweaked to account for relative clock-speed differences
amongst the different types of SGIs.  E.g. 150 MHz systems use "SPEED=54."

If you run into any compilation problems, I would be happy to help you to find
a solution.

>As I understand from reading the article about 'Parallel Rendering' from Greg
>I can use 'rpiece' and render the images in pieces distributing them on the 4
>CPU's. Well, I have to figure out how to run a certain process on a certain 
>CPU before I play around with this I guess :).

My experience concurs Greg's note that said:

   "As for parallel rendering, it shouldn't be necessary to assign processes
    to processors.  The system should load-balance processes automatically."

The SGI should do a good job of load balancing amongst its processors, so
node-locking "rpiece" on your 4 node system would probably not show much
improvement in overall run-time.

For the 20 (R4400) CPU/2 GB RAM  SGI system at the IU Computer Science Dept.
we found it to be an advantage to node-lock "rpiece" on a particular CPU.  
This way we could ensure to only use 16 of the CPUs, leaving the other 4 for
the "interactive" users of the machine. 

We used the SGI utility "runon" inside of a script that initiated a rendering 
task on 16 different processors.  The script built the configuration file(s)
for the particular image being rendered and then specified that a single 
instance of "rpiece" was to be run on each CPU.

When competing for cycles with folks who are doing edit/compile/run types of 
things, a big (giga-pixel) rendering will sometimes finish faster when using 
less than the total number of processors.  This is because the overall 
run-time depends on how fast all of the "rpiece" tasks are able to render 
all of the image-plane segments.  The slowest "rpiece" task(s) will inevitably 
be the one(s) running on the shared CPU(s).  Thus, you may find that running 
on 3 CPUs is faster than running on all 4 CPUs.  Your mileage may vary.

Are there other folks who have run, or are running, Radiance on multi-CPU
systems?  How about folks running Radiance on multi-host clusters of systems?

eric



From crones@puffin.curtin.edu.au Thu Dec  1 20:42:11 1994
Return-Path: <crones@puffin.curtin.edu.au>
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 94 12:16:47 WST
From: crones@puffin.curtin.edu.au (Simon "fish" Crone)
Subject: Re: Radiance farming.
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Status: R


|>	Are there other folks who have run, or are running, Radiance on multi-CPU
|>	systems?  How about folks running Radiance on multi-host clusters of systems?

Here at Curtin Uni, we are using 17 Sun Sparcstaions (IPCs) to render single
images with great results.

The way that the farming script gets set up, however,  is a bit cumbersome.
I currently have to run "rad -n model.rif" to get all of the rpict parameters
and then do a cut and paste into the farm script.  The farm script just does
a rsh $machine rpiece $args $etc for each of our 17 Suns.

Does anyone have a nicer way of doing this?

Also, it has taken around 20 hours with 17 machines to do rendering with
rad settings of: Quality = High, Variablilty = Medium, Detail = High,
Indirect = 0 and Ambfile set. This was of a resolution of 640 by 480.
( Note that since this wasn't done through the rad prog the rendering 
resolution was 640 x 480 not 1920 x 1440 ).
Is that something like the times that others might be getting.

How many people render using the "Quality = high" option with an ambient file?
 
Simon.


________________________________________________________________________________
|                                                   |                          |
|  Simon Crone. - Masters Student.                  |   He who dies with the   |
|                                                   |    most toys - Wins!     |
|  Email:crones@puffin.curtin.edu.au                |                          |
|  http://puffin.curtin.edu.au/~crones/simon.html   |   ( Ancient coffee       |
|  Mail:School of Architecture and Planning,        |     mug proverb .... )   |
|       Curtin University of Technology,            |                          |
|       GPO Box U1987, Perth, Western Australia     |   Phone: +619 351-7310   |
|___________________________________________________|__________________________|

From usr8118a@TSO.UC.EDU Thu Dec  1 21:00:30 1994
Return-Path: <usr8118a@TSO.UC.EDU>
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 00:00:07 -0500
From: "Tony Yuricich" <usr8118a@TSO.UC.EDU>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re:Re:Radiance farming
Status: R

 >Also, it has taken around 20 hours with 17 machines to do rendering with
 >rad settings of: Quality = High, Variablilty = Medium, Detail = High,
 >Indirect = 0 and Ambfile set. This was of a resolution of 640 by 480.
 >( Note that since this wasn't done through the rad prog the rendering
 >resolution was 640 x 480 not 1920 x 1440 ).
 >Is that something like the times that others might be getting.
 >
 >How many people render using the "Quality = high" option with an ambient
 >file?

 I am using also Variability = High setting and rad program and it
 is currently 54% rendered after 372 hours.
 Don't laugh - this is just a lowly IBM PC compatible.

 Tony

From greg Fri Dec  2 11:11:53 1994
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 94 11:01:50 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: crones@puffin.curtin.edu.au, radiance-discuss
Subject: Re: Radiance farming.
Status: R

Hey folks,

I don't know why your renderings are taking so long, but somehow I feel that
I'm to blame.  (Now why is that?)

I've been doing a bunch of renderings myself, lately, and they do take a
while but I don't think I'd ever wait 400+ hours for a single picture!
The last high-quality 1000x700 (or so) picture I generated took about
10 hours on my SGI Indigo R4000, and it was a fairly complex space.

Since I want to encourage people to use rad (and the new GUI trad), I feel
I should give some appropriate hints on minimizing rendering time or at
least understanding why a particular rendering is taking so darned long.

As most of you know already, the indirect calculation in Radiance is what
makes it special and also what can make it especially slow if you're not
careful about how you apply it.  Using rad, most of the so-called
"ambient" parameters (-a*) are derived from the following variables.
I have arranged their values in order of least to most costly in
calculation time:

	QUALITY=	Low	Medium	High
	INDIRECT=	0	1	2	3	...
	VARIABILITY=	Low	Medium	High
	DETAIL=		Low	Medium	High

In addition to the above rad variables, the PENUMBRAS variable if set to
"True" will significantly slow down most renderings.  The RESOLUTION
setting also has some effect, though not as much as you would suppose.
Also, setting the AMBFILE variable is generally a good idea, since it
improves the results noticeably without increasing rendering time by
much.  In fact, for multiple renderings of the same scene, rad will
proceed much faster with an ambient file.

Now, let me explain a bit how the above variables affect calculation time.
The QUALITY variable has the greatest effect on rendering time, which is
why I listed it first.  A low quality rendering NEVER uses the indirect
calculation, regardless of the setting of the INDIRECT variable, unless
overridden by the render options variable.  (We'll discuss when you might
want to do this a little later.)  A medium quality rendering uses as many
bounces as indicated by the INDIRECT setting, and a high quality rendering
uses INDIRECT+1 bounces in its calculation.  Even more significant is
how the QUALITY variable changes all the other rendering parameters that
affect accuracy.  Since these changes are too numerous to list exhaustively,
suffice it to say that there's a BIG difference between the times and
results for different settings of the QUALITY variable.

The next most important variable after INDIRECT, which controls the
number of bounces in the calculation (along with the QUALITY setting as
described above), is the VARIABILITY variable.  This tells rad just how
hard it is to compute the indirect component at any given point in the
scene.  If the variability is low, then we don't have to send as many
samples around to figure out the indirect contribution.  If VARIABILITY
is set to medium, then we send about three times as many samples, and
space our calculations more closely.  If VARIABILITY is set to high
(something I don't recommend unless you have direct sun penetrating
your space), then about 1500 samples will be sent out at each
calculation point, and there will be roughly 4 times as many of these
points as there would be with a low setting.  Therefore, all else being
equal, you should expect a VARIABILITY=High calculation to take roughly
25 times as long as a VARIABILITY=Low calculation -- something to
think about!

Finally, the DETAIL variable has a modest effect on the calculation time,
as it controls the "ambient resolution" calculation parameter, which
determines the minimum spacing between indirect calculation points.
A low detail sene means we can afford to limit our indirect value density
to a modest level compared to a medium or high detail scene.  The precise
effect this will have depends on the geometry of the particular scene,
but it generally doesn't have more than a 10 times effect moving from
a low to a high setting.

Unfortunately, the above information is not enough to predict how long
a given rendering will take to complete.  (The best indicator still is
the time elapsed so far and how much has finished, as given by rpict's
reporting facility.)  However, there are some important scene-related
factors that we should consider.

The most important scene characteristic that affects rendering time is
geometric detail.  (Note that this would seem to contradict my placement
of the DETAIL variable as the least important setting.  While it is true
that the setting of this variable has a minor effect, the ACTUAL scene
detail has a rather major one.  In other words, changing the DETAIL
variable from "medium" to "high" might double the rendering time, but
increasing the actual scene complexity will have a much greater effect.)
This is because Radiance adjusts the calculation of indirect illumination
to the local scene complexity, unlike most radiosity rendering algorithms.
(Thus Radiance maintains accuracy with the minimum effort.)  Increasing
the number of do-dads and knick-knacks therefore increases the number of
indirect calculation points required to maintain accuracy.  A worst-case
scenario for Radiance is something like a packed forest, where every pine
needle is participating in the indirect calculation.

In scenes of such complexity, a different approach is required, and
that's when we bring in the render variable to override some of the
settings determined by rad.  In the worst-case of a forest given above,
we would probably want to turn off the indirect value storage and
interpolation altogether, and greatly reduce the number of sample
rays sent out, i.e:

	render= -ab 1 -aa 0 -ad 10 -as 0

Here we are forcing a 1-bounce calculation (more than that would be
painful), set -aa to 0 to turn off interpolation, and using just 10 samples
over the hemisphere at each point.  The resulting picture will be somewhat
noisy, but a forest is not a visually quiet place, so chances are no one
will notice.  (And if a tree falls, no one will hear it.)

The second, more common case encountered is one where most of the geometry
is fairly plain, consisting of walls, furniture and the like, but parts of
the scene are incredibly detailed, like rows and rows of books in an
enormous bookcase.  We want to use our indirect interpolation technique
to get the smoothest possible results over most of the scene, but if we
apply it also to the bookcase, our rendering will never finish.  What you
should do in such a case is employ the "ambient selection" options,
-ae and -aE to explicitly exclude materials from the indirect calculation,
or -ai and -aI to include them.  (You can use only one set or the other.)
Thus, you "remove" the offending objects from consideration (giving them
the default -av ambient value), speeding the overall calculation.  Since
the objects removed have a large amount of geometric detail, the loss in
illumination detail will probably go unnoticed.  I use this technique all
the time in my own renderings, and it is one of the chief tricks that make
high-quality renderings tractable.  (Ultimately, a better solution would
be automatic geometric simplification, but the problems involved are
nasty, nasty and nasty.)  For example, let's say we had venetian blinds on
the window that were slowing down our nighttime calculation.  The material
used for the blind slats is called "slat_mat".  We would then add the
following setting to our render variable:

	render= -ae slat_mat

If there were other materials involved, we could list them in additional
-ae options, or use an -aE "file" option, where the file contains a list
of the appropriate materials.

I hope this helps to shed some light on a very murky subject.

-Greg

P.S.  In answer to Simon Crone's question about running rpiece more elegantly,
I usually use the OPTFILE variable of rad to create a rendering options file,
then apply that to rpiece, like so:

	% rad -n -s scene.rif OPTFILE=scene.opt
	% rpiece @scene.opt [other options] scene.oct &

From usr8118a@TSO.UC.EDU Fri Dec  2 15:56:55 1994
Return-Path: <usr8118a@TSO.UC.EDU>
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 18:20:39 -0500
From: "Tony Yuricich" <usr8118a@TSO.UC.EDU>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: water waves with Radiance
Status: R

Does anybody have a Radiance description of the water surface with
waves? I have some books and formulas on the water surface subject
but I know too little to apply them with ease.

Also, has anybody rendered underwater caustics with Radiance?

Tony ( usr8118a@tso.uc.edu)


From usr8118a@TSO.UC.EDU Sat Dec  3 09:46:27 1994
Return-Path: <usr8118a@TSO.UC.EDU>
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 11:51:05 -0500
From: "Tony Yuricich" <usr8118a@TSO.UC.EDU>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Water
Status: R

Mat,

>>From there you can get to a Materials and Object Library that includes some
>>water textures.

Voila! Thanks.
I made one quickie ocean floor, put the transparent water surface over
it, some light above and, it will take some tweaking, but this is
a good start. I was looking at the light refracted down to the ocean floor,
hoping to see caustics but it is not going to be THAT easy :-).

>>I am not sure wheteher caustics require forward ray-tracing or not. If they
>>do, then it will be difficult to model them in Radiance.

I am not exactly knowledgeable about these things, but our illustrious
Greg seems to be using ray-pathing rather than ray-tracing and it is
supposed to be able to capture the phenomena of caustics.
(according to Alan Watt/Mark Watt book Advanced Animation and Rendering
Techniques - ACM Press - Addison-Wesley)

Thanks again,
Tony (usr8118a@tso.uc.edu)

From greg Sat Dec  3 10:01:45 1994
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 94 09:52:14 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov, usr8118a@TSO.UC.EDU
Subject: Re:  Water
Status: RO

Sorry to inform you, but Radiance does not do caustics from curved surfaces.
That does require forward ray tracing or some other technique that we don't
gots.  Caustics from planar surfaces with light redirections that can be
expressed as a "shear matrix" we can handle.  You can even fake caustics from
curved surfaces if you break them into polygons, but the results are not as
nice as doing it right and they tend to be expensive since each polygon creates
at least one virtual light source for each light source.

-Greg

From usr8118a@TSO.UC.EDU Sun Dec  4 08:45:44 1994
Return-Path: <usr8118a@TSO.UC.EDU>
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 11:30:39 -0500
From: "Tony Yuricich" <usr8118a@TSO.UC.EDU>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Water
Status: RO

>> You can even fake caustics from curved surfaces if you break them
>> into polygons, but the results are not as nice as doing it right

At this point, after browsing through the available literature, I am
wondering what does it mean 'doing it right'. Both methods
that I found ( one is forward ray tracing, second is 'other technique'
by Nishita/Nakamae in 94 SIGGRAPH Proceedings) break the water surface
into a triangular mesh. I have not tried it yet, but from my understanding
of the theory involved, there is no reason to believe that Radiance
virtual light sources are more costly than forward ray tracing the
'illumination volumes'.

Kajiya seems to be the only one to get caustics by solving his own
equation and he is not using forward ray tracing but, according to
Watts, backward ray pathing which, in Watts description, is conventional
ray tracing augmented with the intelligent sampling (whatever that
means). The method used in Radiance sounds similar (or rather,the
terminology is confusing a lay person like me) and since Watts
mention you a couple of paragraphs after describing Kajiya's technique
I thought ...

Anyway, using Carr's ripples and putting a diffuse light polygon right
above the perturbed water surface, does produce the refractive effects on
ocean floor reminiscent of the real ones, except for the missing caustics.

Tony(usr8118a@tso.uc.edu)

From greg Sun Dec  4 10:36:07 1994
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 94 10:26:48 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov, usr8118a@TSO.UC.EDU
Subject: Re:  Water
Status: R

Tony Yuricich (usr8118a@tso.uc.edu) wrote:
> I am wondering what does it mean 'doing it right'.

I don't know what it means to "do it right."  I guess that would have to
involve real photons at some point...  All I meant was that Radiance is not
terribly efficient in its calculation, and although it includes everything
in the mix, it works better in some situations that others, and caustics
(specifically concentration or spreading of light by curved mirrors or
lenses) is not addressed directly.

I admit that I am not as well-versed on this subject as I should be, but
in the future I hope to implement some degree of forward ray-tracing to
better complete the things that Radiance can do.  I can't make any great
promises, since it is going to be a multiple-year project and I've only
started to investigate the problem, but it should be an improvement.

> Anyway, using Carr's ripples and putting a diffuse light polygon right
> above the perturbed water surface, does produce the refractive effects on
> ocean floor reminiscent of the real ones, except for the missing caustics.

What you are probably seeing is the effect of tracing "shadow rays" in
Radiance through a "curved" (textured in this case) surface towards a
source.  Just like view rays, the shadow rays are perturbed by the surface,
and some of them hit the light source while others don't.  Thus, you get
a sort of patterned shadow.  However, since the effective solid angle of
the light source having passed through the water is not computed, there
are still no concentrations or dispersions of light rays as would happen
in real life.  If you wish to model these caustics, you can treat the lights
sources in the indirect calculation by using the "glow" type instead of
"light" or "spotlight", but you'll have to send a LOT of sampling rays,
depending on how small your sources are.

-Greg

From holly@cam.nist.gov Sun Dec  4 10:55:42 1994
Return-Path: <holly@cam.nist.gov>
From: "Holly E Rushmeier" <holly@cam.nist.gov>
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 13:39:47 -0500
References: <199412041630.LAA10249@tso2.tso.uc.edu>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.1.0 22feb94 MediaMail)
To: "Tony Yuricich" <usr8118a@tso.uc.edu>, radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re: Water
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Mime-Version: 1.0
Status: R

Note: Greg's response arrived while I was typing this, but
I will go ahead and send this since I have a couple of
small points to add that he didn't mention

Kajiya's method, and Radiance also, can capture caustics in
a reasonable amount of time if you have a
huge solid-angle light source (such as the sky), acting as a "glowing"
source (i.e. something that you hit when you are exploring the
whole hemisphere of illumination rather than a source that you aim at).
For small solid-angle sources, Radiance and Kajiya style
path tracing can capture caustics -- but
not very efficiently, and  the result can be pretty noisy (which
was part of the motivation for the Sig. '94 paper "Energy
Preserving Non-Linear Filters").

If you have a single small-solid-angle source (i.e. the sun)
it is MUCH more efficient to trace from the light source.

In a forward or "light ray" method you would
mesh the ocean floor to the resolution you want to see detail. Then
you would shoot light bundles from the sun and follow where (if at
all) they are deposited on the mesh. In this method there would be
no need to polygonalize the surface -- you just need to know how
to intersect it. You can probably limit the solid angle into
which you shoot from the light, so that a high percentage of
the rays you shoot will be giving you information about the
illumination of the floor.

If you try to do the same thing by path tracing, you have a virtual
source for every polygonal element on the water's surface. Then for
every point on the ocean floor you need to trace a ray to each
virtual source. A minute percentage of these traces are going to
produce information about the illumination.

In Sig. 91 the paper "A Progressive Multi-Pass Method for Global
Illumination" discusses a classification of the paths that light
takes from a source to a surface, and the types of algorithms that
that are most efficient for each of them.

-- Holly Rushmeier



From holly@cam.nist.gov Sun Dec  4 11:06:39 1994
Return-Path: <holly@cam.nist.gov>
From: "Holly E Rushmeier" <holly@cam.nist.gov>
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 13:50:38 -0500
References: <199412041630.LAA10249@tso2.tso.uc.edu>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.1.0 22feb94 MediaMail)
To: "Tony Yuricich" <usr8118a@tso.uc.edu>, radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re: Water
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Mime-Version: 1.0
Status: R

Oops, one other thing about caustics. The most recent paper I
know of is "Adaptive Splatting for Specular to Diffuse
Light Transport" by Steve Collins in the Eurographics Fifth
Rendering Workshop. His email is Steven.Collins@cs.tcd.ie if you
don't have the proceedings. Also, check out his home page --
http://vangogh.cs.tcd.ie/scollins/scollins.html for some really
impressive caustic images under the description  of his
ray-tracing system (including the caustics from a crystal version
of the space ship Enterprise).

-- Holly



From jedev@MIT.EDU Mon Dec  5 07:33:36 1994
Return-Path: <jedev@MIT.EDU>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Subscribe
Date: Mon, 05 Dec 1994 10:33:29 EST
From: John E Devalpine <jedev@MIT.EDU>
Content-Length: 50
Status: R

please subsribe me to the radiance-discuss group.

From cloister@u.washington.edu Sun Dec  4 20:18:11 1994
Return-Path: <cloister@u.washington.edu>
X-Sender: cloister@saul5.u.washington.edu
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 20:08:09 -0800 (PST)
From: cloister bell <cloister@u.washington.edu>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re: Water
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO

coincidentally, i found a paper on the web the other day which bears 
quite directly on this discussion.  greg, since you mention that you're 
just getting started on the research for this, you might want to check 
out the following URL:

http://www.cs.princeton.edu/gfx/cool/cool.html

and look at the stuff on illumination from curved reflectors.  no doubt 
you'll understand it a lot more than i did, but the chaps who wrote it 
seem to have found some nice ways to solve that problem analytically.



From pgiagnoc@globalcom.net Mon Dec  5 09:21:06 1994
Return-Path: <pgiagnoc@globalcom.net>
Date: Mon,  5 Dec 94 17:19:01 PST
Reply-To: pgiagnoc@globalcom.net
From: pgiagnoc@globalcom.net
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: SUBSCRIBE
Status: RO

subscribe patrickg@success.net Patrick Giagnocavo


From absgh@bath.ac.uk Thu Dec  8 09:45:45 1994
Return-Path: <absgh@bath.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 1994 17:43:21 +0000 (GMT)
From: Gazza <absgh@bath.ac.uk>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: subscribe
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: R

subscribe radiance discussion list

Gary Hunt

G.Hunt@bath.ac.uk

From suchanek@pg.com Wed Dec 14 11:56:08 1994
Return-Path: <suchanek@pg.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 14:56:55 -0500
From: suchanek@pg.com (Eric G. Suchanek)
References: <9412141943.AA19745@hobbes.lbl.gov>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.1.0 22feb94 MediaMail)
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward)
Subject: Re: Radiance under IRIX 5.2
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Mime-Version: 1.0
Status: R

I forgot to ask you - could you add me to the discussion list?

Thanks!

Eric suchanek



-- 
Eric G. Suchanek - AKA: suchanek@pg.com, esuchanek@acm.org
                 - http://info.acm.org/~esuchanek/homepage.html
                 - Has anyone seen my fat angus drive?  Joel MST3K






From sabol@zen.wes.army.mil Thu Dec 29 11:23:29 1994
Return-Path: <sabol@zen.wes.army.mil>
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 94 13:08:39 CST
From: sabol@zen.wes.army.mil (Bruce Sabol)
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: RADIANCE mailing list
Status: RO

Please add me to the RADIANCE mailing list:

Bruce Sabol
U.S. Army Waterways Experiment Station (EN-C)
3909 Halls Ferry Rd.
Vicksburg, MS  39180
voice: 601-634-2297
E-mail: sabol@zen.wes.army.mil

From z3mv@kmd-ac.dk Tue Jan 10 00:18:46 1995
Return-Path: <z3mv@kmd-ac.dk>
Subject: Subscription
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 09:22:26 +0000 (GMT)
From: "Martin Vennevold" <z3mv@kmd-ac.dk>
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 119
X-Charset: ASCII
X-Char-Esc: 29
Status: R

Hi Greg,
Please add me to your Radiance-related mailing-lists.

Thanks in advance!

Martin Vennevold, <z3mv@kmd-ac.dk>

From chas@innernet.com Wed Jan 11 07:53:39 1995
Return-Path: <chas@innernet.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 03:25:25 PDT
From: Charles Ehrlich <chas@innernet.com>
Subject: RADOUT AutoCAD --> Radiance ADS for DOS/Windows
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov, chas@hobbes.lbl.gov
X-Mailer: LeeMail 2.0.4
Status: RO

I would like to hear from everyone interested in obtaining a copy of
a DOS or Windows version of Radout, a AutoCAD add-on utility written
in "C" by Philip Thompson of MIT, which works much like the "Torad" 
program, its AutoLISP predecessor.

I have contracted with an individual who will begin work shortly on
the job of porting the Unix ADS "C" code to the DOS and Windows
platforms.  He will not charge a lot of money, but enough that I 
will feel it.  If you are willing to financially support this timely 
port to DOS and Windows, let me know.  The code and executables themselves
will be freely available once finished.

For those who are willing to contribute $50.00 or more, I will also
give you a copy of the Watcom 10.0a project file so that you could
readily and easily improve upon the basic product.

Why do want a DOS version of a Radiance geometry converter, you ask?
Don't hold your breath, but soon Adeline will be available which
contains a very robust MS-DOS port of Radiance.  Please don't bug
Greg Ward about this, you can but me:  chas@innernet.com

Charles Ehrlich
-Chas



From Steffen.Zahn%robinie@sunserv.sie.siemens.co.at Mon Jan 23 23:34:23 1995
Return-Path: <Steffen.Zahn%robinie@sunserv.sie.siemens.co.at>
Errors-To: Steffen.Zahn%robinie@emndev.siemens.co.at
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 08:32:25 --100
From: Steffen.Zahn%robinie@sunserv.sie.siemens.co.at (Steffen Zahn)
Errors-To: Steffen.Zahn%robinie@emndev.siemens.co.at
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
X-Mn-Key: normal
Errors-To: Steffen.Zahn%robinie@emndev.siemens.co.at
Reply-To: Steffen.Zahn%robinie@emndev.siemens.co.at
Content-Length: 479
Status: R

Please include me in your radiance discussion list.
I'm already on a list called `raydist@hobbes.lbl.gov', so if these lists
are the same than please ignore this request.

  Steffen Zahn

-- 
Steffen Zahn,         phone: +49-30-386 24969,  fax:   +49-30-386 29626
                      email: Steffen.Zahn%robinie@emndev.siemens.co.at
PGP Key fingerprint =  EB A6 F1 48 FF 44 C4 15  6A BB E4 E6 3F 37 20 C2
Any opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those of my employer.

From sick@ise.fhg.de Tue Jan 24 06:28:25 1995
Return-Path: <sick@ise.fhg.de>
From: sick@ise.fhg.de
Subject: subscribe
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 15:13:55 +0100 (MEZ)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 473       
Status: R

subscription request to discussion group.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Friedrich Sick   MAIL : Fraunhofer Institute for Solar Energy Systems
                        Oltmannsstr. 5
                        D-79100 Freiburg
			Germany
                 PHONE: +49-(0)761-4588-133    FAX: +49-(0)761-4588-132
                 email: sick@ise.fhg.de
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From roberts@bacon.xs4all.nl Sat Jan 28 20:38:57 1995
Return-Path: <roberts@bacon.xs4all.nl>
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 12:53:17 +0100 (MET)
From: Robert Jan Schaper <roberts@bacon.xs4all.nl>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: subscribe
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: R

Hi,

Would you please add my name to the Radiance discussion list.

Thanks,

-Rob-

From Jean.Brange@utopia.fnet.fr Wed Feb  1 03:49:57 1995
Return-Path: <Jean.Brange@utopia.fnet.fr>
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 12:35:58 +0100
From: Jean Brange <Jean.Brange@Utopia.fnet.fr>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Arris to Radiance Translator
Status: R

Hello,
I have written an Arris to Radiance Translator.
oYou should find it in /pub/translators directory at hobbes.lbl.gov .

If you use it let me know.

Good luck!

If there is any one in France who read this, he could contact me at:
Jean Brange . Tel: 48048674 in Paris. Thank's.

-JIB-


From silovic@srce.hr Thu Feb  2 23:51:45 1995
Return-Path: <silovic@srce.hr>
From: silovic@srce.hr (Miroslav Silovic)
Subject: List subscription
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 08:51:36 +0100 (MET)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Length: 170       
Status: RO

subscribe silovic@regoc.srce.hr

And in case it's not machine processed, thank you very much, Greg, and
I'm very sorry I missed the existance of the list before.

	Miro


From silovic@srce.hr Mon Feb  6 02:37:26 1995
Return-Path: <silovic@srce.hr>
From: silovic@srce.hr (Miroslav Silovic)
Subject: [contrib] Hexagonal texture
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov (Radiance Dicussion)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 11:20:39 +0100 (MET)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Length: 1943      
Status: RO


Here is a nifty .cal file, which I put together while I was /really/
bored. :)

Secundary purpose of this post is to test the mailing list (if I don't
get anything back, it probably meant that .lbl nameserver doesn't
like me. :) Anyway, here is the file. As a test, try to apply
redt, greent and bluet as colorfunc on a horisontal plane.

--snip----snip----snip----snip----snip----snip----snip----snip----snip--

{
  Scale and temporary function. In 'real' application, you may want to
  use A1 instead of scale2. Or just -s option.
}

scale2=0.1;
es=.5+.5*turbulence(Px/scale2,Py/scale2,Pz/scale2,0.02);

{
  Main hexagonal code.
  Functions:
	hexx(x,y) - take x and y and truncate them to hexagon. Return
			x coordinate
	hexy(x,y) - same thing, returns y coordinate

	Parameters for these functions must be inside the rectangle
	sqrt(3) x  sqrt(3)/2 with one cornet at the origin; use
	recx and rexy to achieve this
}

sq3=sqrt(3);
sq32=sq3/2;

recx(x)=mod(x,3);
recy(y)=mod(y,sq3*2);

hex1x(x,y)=
	if(y-sq3*x,
	x+1.5,
	if(y-2*sq3+sq3*x,
		x-1.5,
		x));
hex1y(x,y)=
	if(y-sq3*x,
	y,
	if(y-2*sq3+sq3*x,
		y,
		sq32+y));

hexx(x,y)=
	if(sq32-y,	hex1x(x,y),
	if(sq3-y,	hex1x(x,sq3-y),
	if(1.5*sq3-y,	hex1x(x,y-sq3),
			hex1x(x,2*sq3-y))))-1;
hexy(x,y)=
	if(sq32-y,	hex1y(x,y),
	if(sq3-y,	sq3-hex1y(x,sq3-y),
	if(1.5*sq3-y,	hex1y(x,y-sq3),
			sq3-hex1y(x,2*sq3-y))))-sq32;

{
  Radial hex pattern. Hexrad takes x and y and returns 'distance'
  from the center of the hexagon containing the point
}

hexrad(x,y)=if(abs(y)-sq3*abs(x),abs(y),sq32*abs(x)+.5*abs(y));

hx=recx(Px/scale2);
hy=recy(Py/scale2);

et=hexrad(hexx(hx,hy),hexy(hx,hy))/sq32;

{ Some demonstrations }

blue1=bezier(0,0,0.2,1,et);
red1=bezier(0.6,0.2,1,1,et);
green1=bezier(1,0.7,0,1,et);

bluet=0;
redt=if(et-0.8,1,0);
greent=0;

bluem=bezier(0,0,0.2,1,es);
redm=bezier(0.6,0.2,1,1,es);
greenm=bezier(1,0.7,0,1,es);

offsx=hexx(hx,hy)*0.2;
offsy=hexy(hx,hy)*0.2;
offsz=0;


From silovic@srce.hr Tue Feb  7 08:40:56 1995
Return-Path: <silovic@srce.hr>
From: silovic@srce.hr (Miroslav Silovic)
Subject: Extending Radiance
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov (Radiance Dicussion)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 17:02:08 +0100 (MET)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Length: 1928      
Status: RO


I have a good idea about extending Rad with new materials/objects.
I'd like to code a new material type, which would be used like this:

<pref> extension <name>
1 filename S1 S2 S3 ... Sn
0
n A1 A2 A3 ... An

This is the idea: When filename is encountered for the first time in
this context, the program 'filename' is run as a subprocess. Whenever
this material is evaluated, the process receives parameters and
the ray to trace, and is expected to reply with ... whatever material
type is supposed to reply with. Protocol should also allow the extension
program to ask the main tracer for more traces. It could be used
(for instance) for new lighting models, and even new primitives.

Example: heighfield primitive (I know Rad can handle them with gensurf,
			but only to some 50x50, and really detailed
			graphics requires 500x500 or more, and the only
			way to work with that is quad subdivision, not
			octree).

One would be able to define a box of heightfield extension material.
Extension function requests a raytrace /into/ the box from the main
program. Then it tries to intersect the ray with the surface of the
heightfield. If the second intersection is closer than the first,
it signals the main program. Otherwise, it just behaves as if the
box is perfectly transparent.
Of course, the exact communication protocol should be set. Extension
program, for example, should be able to handle a case when it
requests a trace from the rpict, and gets another trace request
recursively. Also, the program should be able to tell the main
application something like /now trace from this point, with the
new object material named <...>/.


So, I need somebody who knows Radiance sources and has time to help
me with this - I tried to analyze them, and while I have a global idea
what's happening, I don't know how to intervene in the process.
Hands-on example of what to do to add a new material would be the best.

	Miro


From rsteven@evl.eecs.uic.edu Mon Feb 13 10:58:25 1995
Return-Path: <rsteven@evl.eecs.uic.edu>
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 12:56:00 -0600 (CST)
From: Rob Stevenson <rsteven@evl.eecs.uic.edu>
To: "Gregory J. Ward" <greg@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: your mail
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: R

> Subscribe to which list?  The moderated announcement and digest mailing list,
> or the unmoderated discussion group?  Usually people subscribe either to
> the announcement list only, or to both lists.


Please subscribe me to both mailing lists....

Thanks,
Rob


From cta.bc.ca!rand@nebulus.net Mon Feb 20 08:42:40 1995
Return-Path: <cta.bc.ca!rand@nebulus.net>
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 13:30 PST
From: rand@cta.bc.ca (Rand Thompson)
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re:  Radiance - ARRIS
Status: RO

Greg,

Thanks for Jean Brange's address.

With respect to the Radiance discussion group list and the Radiance digest list, we only have e-mail access to the internet, no ftp or newsgroups.  Considering this we would be pleased to be on these lists if it would still be of value. 
  
Rand.

From N.Ashdown@mmu.ac.uk Tue Feb 21 02:49:25 1995
Return-Path: <N.Ashdown@mmu.ac.uk>
From: Neil Ashdown <N.Ashdown@mmu.ac.uk>
Organization:  Manchester Metropolitan University
To: GJWard@lbl.gov
Date:          Tue, 21 Feb 1995 10:29:49 GMT
Subject:       
Priority: normal
X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail v3.1 (R1a)
Status: RO

~s New RADIANCE 2.4 user
Mail address:
    Neil Ashdown
    Department of Architecture, Landscape and 3D Design
    Manchester Metropolitan University
    Chatham Building
    Cavendish Street
    Manchester
    M15 6BR
    UNITED KINGDOM
Phone: +44 (0)161 247 1134
E-mail: N.Ashdown@mmu.ac.uk
Add to discussion group: y
Add to mailing list: y
Machine: Silicon Graphics Indigo Iris
System: IRIX 5.2
Source: BRE
Application:
    Daylighting of buildings - effects of trees

From clcv64@ccsun.strath.ac.uk Tue Feb 21 09:59:56 1995
Return-Path: <clcv64@ccsun.strath.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 17:57:59 +0000
From: clcv64 <clcv64@ccsun.strath.ac.uk>
To: gjward@lbl.gov.
Content-Length: 653
Status: R

Dear Mr. Greg Ward,

I would like to ask you to subscribe me for RADIANCE discussion
group in order to be up to date with latest work people are
doing with RADIANCE and generally in lighting simulation. I
currently work on coupling lighting and thermal simulation
tools particularly Radiance and ESP-r.

With best regards,

Milan Janak.


*********************************
Milan Janak
Enery Systems Research Unit
Energy Systems Division
Mechanical Engineering Department
James Weir Building
75 Montrose Street
Glasgow G1 1XJ
Scotland, UK.
Tel +44 41 552 4400 Ext. 3747
Fax +44 41 552 8513
e-mail: m.janak@strath.ac.uk
*********************************


From Jean.Brange@utopia.fnet.fr Wed Feb 22 09:31:08 1995
Return-Path: <Jean.Brange@utopia.fnet.fr>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 18:10:10 +0100
From: Jean Brange <Jean.Brange@Utopia.fnet.fr>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Arris2rad converter
Status: R

Hello

New version of Arris2rad converter has arrived.
You will find new functionalities.

Jean.

From gerold@ise.fhg.de Fri Feb 24 01:47:02 1995
Return-Path: <gerold@ise.fhg.de>
From: gerold@ise.fhg.de
Subject: Subscription to discussion group
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 10:46:41 +0100 (MEZ)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 706       
Status: R

Hi Greg or whoever will receive this mail,

I'd like to subscribe to the radiance discussion group. 

Is it correct that all the questions and answers
should be send to radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov and 
administrative questions to the current email address?

Besides me Manuel Goller also likes to subscribe to the group.
Our email addresses are:

	Gerold: gerold@ise.fhg.de
	Manuel: manuel@ise.fhg.de

Thanks a lot.

Gerold
-- 
Gerold Furler            MAIL: Fraunhofer Institute for Solar Energy Systems
                               Oltmannsstr. 5, 79100 Freiburg, Germany
                         PHONE: +49 (761) 4588 308  FAX: +49 (761) 4588 100
                         EMAIL: gerold@ise.fhg.de

From stuartl@netcom.com Fri Feb 24 08:34:49 1995
Return-Path: <stuartl@netcom.com>
From: stuartl@netcom.com (Stuart Lewis)
Subject: Installing Radiance in LINUX
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 08:19:30 -0800 (PST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1246      
Status: R

The good news is, it works just fine.

However, I thought I would make anyone who is planning to do this aware 
of a problem that will occur with certain LINUX distributions:

The version of the 'ed' line editor included in these packages is not 
fully POSIX.  When 'makeall install' is run a non-fatal error will occur 
when the scipt attempts to customize the malloc options, then a fatal 
error will occur when the VERSION file is created.  As a result, most of 
the binaries will compile, but not the really neccessary ones like rad 
and rview.

To determine if your version of 'ed' is compatible, the easiest way (as I 
have been told) of verifying this is to invoke ed like so: "ed --help".
If this does not return a help message, that indicates that you do not 
have gnu ed and chances are the version you /do/ have may not be POSIX.

An older version of 'ed' from the LINUX archive seems to work with the 
Radiance scripts, or you can ftp gnu ed from prep.ai.mit.edu.

Also, from my experience it would be a good idea to have at least 32M of 
(RAM + Swap) on your machine, if possible.

Good luck!

Stuart Lewis,

stuartl@netcom.com             <-- New address!
stuart.lewis@arch.gatech.edu   <-- Soon-to-be-old address
slewis@ashrae.com

From cloister@u.washington.edu Fri Feb 24 11:57:10 1995
Return-Path: <cloister@u.washington.edu>
X-Sender: cloister@saul2.u.washington.edu
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 11:41:36 -0800 (PST)
From: cloister bell <cloister@u.washington.edu>
To: Stuart Lewis <stuartl@netcom.com>
Cc: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re: Installing Radiance in LINUX
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: R

[ ed stuff deleted ]

> An older version of 'ed' from the LINUX archive seems to work with the 
> Radiance scripts, or you can ftp gnu ed from prep.ai.mit.edu.

fyi, whatever ed comes with slackware 2.0 (possibly 2.x; i haven't 
updated in a while) worked fine for me.
 
> Also, from my experience it would be a good idea to have at least 32M of 
> (RAM + Swap) on your machine, if possible.

i have found that scenes render just fine on my 16mb machine.  so long as 
you don't do anything dumb like try to start emacs on a large file while 
rendering you shouldn't get a whole lot of swapping (unless you have some 
really huge scene files or something).



From toddb@sva.edu Mon Feb 27 13:13:57 1995
Return-Path: <toddb@sva.edu>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 13:13:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Todd Brous <toddb@sva.edu>
To: "Gregory J. Ward" <greg@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Subject: 'Re: info' <- oops....
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: R


Oh, I am SOOOO sorry!  I thought I was sending a message to the 
Listserv about 'how I should subscribe'  I sincerely apologize if my 
message was sent to everyone.  (I have just made the 'net.newbie' 
cardinal SIN!!!  May my computer refuse to respond to 'ls -a' for all 
eternity...)

I would like to subscribe to the mailing lists though.  Could you please 
point me in the right direction for them.  

Also, I would just like to say that Radiance is AMAZING!!!!  I have spent 
the weekend reading the manuals, and I cannot wait to get some time to 
really try it out.

Thanks in advance.

Sincerely,
Todd Brous

***************************************
Todd Brous
toadler@panix.com
toddb@sva.edu
"...prolix and ponderous prose..." 
		-Hubert Skinner
***************************************





From gerold@ise.fhg.de Tue Feb 28 03:50:19 1995
Return-Path: <gerold@ise.fhg.de>
From: gerold@ise.fhg.de
Subject: Venetian blinds
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 12:12:24 +0100 (MEZ)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 837       
Status: RO


Hi out there,

why to invent the wheel twice so I thought I ask the
radiance group if somebody modeled the BRDF function of 
a venetian blind already.
So, did somebody????
Currently we work on a project where we need this kind
of information. Right now we model the store geometrically but
the computing time increased a lot of course.
What we need is a 3D BRDF model which is able to take into account:

	- a variable geometry of the laminas 
	- diffus and direct reflection should be possible

Can we get help from somebody?????????

Thanks a lot.

Gerold
-- 
Gerold Furler            MAIL: Fraunhofer Institute for Solar Energy Systems
                               Oltmannsstr. 5, 79100 Freiburg, Germany
                         PHONE: +49 (761) 4588 308  FAX: +49 (761) 4588 100
                         EMAIL: gerold@ise.fhg.de

From stuartl@netcom.com Thu Mar  2 13:21:30 1995
Return-Path: <stuartl@netcom.com>
From: stuartl@netcom.com (Stuart Lewis)
Subject: modifications to dayfact.csh
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 07:54:46 -0800 (PST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 269       
Status: R

I was just about to sit down and try to modify dayfact.csh to perform
illuminance mapping on non-horizontal planes, but before I did I thought
I would check to see if anyone has done this already.

Anyone?

Thanks!


Stuart Lewis,

stuartl@netcom.com
slewis@ashrae.com

From cloister@u.washington.edu Sat Mar  4 13:07:18 1995
Return-Path: <cloister@u.washington.edu>
X-Sender: cloister@saul2.u.washington.edu
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 12:38:35 -0800 (PST)
From: cloister bell <cloister@u.washington.edu>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: rpict isn't supposed to core dump!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: R

can anyone tell me what i should do about this?  here's my bath.rif file:

# rad input file for bathroom scene

ZONE = INTERIOR 0 84 0 100 0 100

# input files: (bath.rad imports everything else in)
scene = materials bath.rad

# parameters
EXPOSURE    = 1.0
VARIABILITY = HIGH
DETAIL      = HIGH
QUALITY     = MED
INDIRECT    = 1
AMBFILE     = bath.amb
RESOLUTION  = 512
PENUMBRAS   = TRUE
REPORT      = 5
render      = -e progress
view= -vtv -vp 70 5 60 -vd -0.699127 0.649189 -0.299626 -vu 0 0 1 -vh 45 
-vv 45 -vs 0 -vl 0
#

and here's what ends up in the "progress" file when i typed "rad bath.rif&":

**************
*** PID 25426: rpict -t 300 -vtv -vp 70 5 60 -vd -0.699127 0.649189 
-0.299626 -vu 0 0 1 -vh 45 -vv 45 -vs 0 -vl 0 -dp 1024 -ar 33 -ds .2 -dj 
.5 -dt .1 -dc .5 -dr 1 -sj .7 -st .1 -ab 1 -af bath.amb -aa .15 -ad 768 
-as 196 -av 0.5 0.5 0.5 -lr 6 -lw .002 -e progress -x 64 -y 64 -ps 1 
bath.oct 

rpict: consistency - zero ambient radius in avinsert

and of course, since rpict doesn't have any debugging symbols in it, all 
i can tell you is that "gdb rpict core" tells me this:

GDB is free software and you are welcome to distribute copies of it
 under certain conditions; type "show copying" to see the conditions.
There is absolutely no warranty for GDB; type "show warranty" for details.
GDB 4.12 (i486-unknown-linux), Copyright 1994 Free Software Foundation, 
Inc...
(no debugging symbols found)...
Core was generated by `rpict'.
#0  0x600305cc in ?? ()

this is on a i486 100mhz linux 1.0.9 machine with 16mb ram.  help?

From greg Sun Mar  5 09:53:11 1995
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 09:10:33 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: cloister@u.washington.edu, radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re:  rpict isn't supposed to core dump!
Status: R

Hi Jason,

I agree that rpict shouldn't dump core!!  The problem is not anything you're
doing -- it's that the ambient file has been corrupted.  There's little you
can do to remedy the situation besides removing the ambient file and starting
over.

I've seen this happen before under two circumstances.  The first is when
a machine using NFS for its file accesses crashes, and the file ends up
with a whole mess of empty records at the end.  The second is where you
have a number of rpict processes sharing the ambient file using NFS, and
a bug in the network lock manager allows the file to be corrupted by not
properly managing contentious requests.  In both cases, it is safest to
remove the ambient file and start again.  In the first case, it is possible
to use lookamb to find where the bad records begin, and save the good ones,
but this is extra for experts.

I figured I should reply to this one not only because I've encountered the
problem before, but also because I want to see what mail bounces on the
discussion list.  I don't have a list server, so my mailer bounces all
failed mail to the originator, which is whoever made the posting.  It's
very annoying, and the only way to fix it is to remove the bad addresses
by hand.  If I don't see the bounces, I don't make the corrections, so
bear with me.

-Greg

From greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Wed Mar  8 19:01:45 1995
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 95 13:54:54 PST
From: "Gregory J. Ward" <greg@hobbes.lbl.gov>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Radiance mail from Georg Mischler

Here is some mail forwarded from Georg Mischler, who wrote the famous AutoCAD
translator "torad"....

>From u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de Mon Mar  6 12:48:06 1995
Return-Path: <u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de>
From: u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de
Subject: HW price/performance-usability
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 21:31:16 +0100 (MET)
Status: R

[for forwarding to radiance-discuss]

Hello all,

looks like I might join the radiance crew again in the near future :-)


I am currently evaluating low cost hardware/system platforms for
running radiance together with autocad in the lighting design practice
where I work.
Now before I have the dealers telling me stories I'd like to hear if
anyone else has made experiances with the platforms mentioned below (or
similar) and can direct me to the solution offering the best price to
performance/usability relation if wired into a multiplatform networking
environment.

My favorites up to now are a PC 486DX4/Pentium-100 with linux
or an SGI indy of yet unknown configuration.
I know that I can run autocad on a SGI directly, in contrast to a
linux solution where I'd still need my mac on the same desk (or has
someone managed to run the SCO version of R12 with linux?).

Other criteria will be (besides purchase prize):

- Raw speed
	- Does radiance run noticeably faster on a pentium compared to a
	  486DX4 (will gcc optimize)?
	- Does the difference correspond to the higher cost?
	- Same question for Indy (let's say a R4600) against pentium 100.

- Maintenance
	- Required time?
	- Required special knoweledge?

- Support
	What are the experiances with (maybe paid for) support for linux
	over the net?
	- Availablility?
	- Response time?
	- Cost?

- Bugs
	Now this *had* to come up here eventually. Are there any experiances
	or theoretical considerations about the way the pentium fdiv bug
	might influence the operation of radiance? 
	I know most of the details about the bug itself. With respect to the
	kind of work radiance does, I expect an occurence at least every
	few hours. How will such a reduction in accuracy effect the output?
	Will it disappear in the noise created by the monte carlo ray
	distribution algorythms or will the recursive nature of diffuse
	interreflection calculation increase the effect of the aberration?
	I'd like to hear from anyone running radiance on a pentium if there
	are any noticeable effects at all, and if, what they look like.
	No, I won't panick in front of the "warning label" ;-)

- Anything else to consider?


I imagine a setup with a large monitor (20"), 1GB SCSI HD, 32MB RAM,
Ethernet and a fast bus system (PCI/VLB for the PC). I don't care for
real time graphics too much at the moment.

Just in case it should make any difference: Our local subnet connects
10 Macs and a PC (DOS/Win) over Ethertalk/IP. Those are then connected
to other PC networks (DOS/Win/Novell 4.1) and a unix cluster (AIX/IP)
which in turn are linked over ISDN (IP) to several similar sites.

I know that I might use the AIX clusters for distributed renderings
(at least at night). The system in question is for me to work with
during daytime, when those machines are used for other purposes.


Many thanks to anyone who taking the time to share his or her experiances.

Georg



** Georg Mischler   \ /   HL-Technik AG,  Lichtplanung / Lighting Design
Tageslichtsysteme  - O -  Wolfratshauserstrasse 56  T: +49-89-724 06 315
Daylight  Systems   / \   81375 Muenchen, Germany   F: +49-89-724 06 309




>From u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de Mon Mar  6 12:49:04 1995
Return-Path: <u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de>
From: u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de
Subject: daylight redirection simulation
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 21:32:10 +0100 (MET)
Status: R

[for forwarding to radiance-discuss]

Hi again

once at it, I won't run out of questions too soon...


I plan using radiance to calculate the effects of daylight redirection
systems (is there a better english term?) like prism panels, raster,
metallic louvers or maybe even holographic systems.
My ideas on how to proceed are still a little vague at the moment,
but I see a direction, into which I want to research further. Before
I do so, I'd like to hear if anyone has tried similar things already
and what results are available from this.

To acheive a decent image quality in reasonable time I will have to
use mkillum to precompute the light distribution on the inside surfaces
of the systems in question (most of the time they will be encapsulated
within insulating glasses).

There are two main problems that I see arise:

Reflecting geometry.
Most metallic raster and louver systems have geometrical properties that
are very difficult to model mathemathically, if the surface curve
equations are known at all.
The only method I see to simulate those will require elaborate .cal
files defining the output distribution for any arbitrary input ray.
At this point I expect performance problems that might make it difficult
to evaluate different solutions in a more or less interactive way.
Is there an easy way to interface mkillum to compiled functions?
Can this be done from within a .cal file, or used instead? If not, how
difficult will it be to modify mkillum to make it possible?
Gerold Furler suggested here recently to use BRDF functions to solve a
similar problem. I havn't looked at these very closely yet. Is this
really a way to go?

Wavelength dependancy.
Prism panels, though simple enough geometrically for being fully
modeled, use special coatings to influence the refractive index
depending on the color of input rays. This allows for reflecting direct
sunlight while transmitting light from the sky. As far as I know,
radiance doesn't support such a behaviour directly. Is there a simple
way to circumvent this restriction or might that lead to an extension
of mkillum again? Can mkillum superimpose the results of two runs (one
with sun only, one without) in a single set of output data? Or might
there be a trick available, like checking for the size of a light source
from a .cal function? (the sun is usually much smaller than the sky...)

Are there hidden features in mkillum that I have missed so far?


Thanks for any suggestion

Georg


** Georg Mischler   \ /   HL-Technik AG,  Lichtplanung / Lighting Design
Tageslichtsysteme  - O -  Wolfratshauserstrasse 56  T: +49-89-724 06 315
Daylight  Systems   / \   81375 Muenchen, Germany   F: +49-89-724 06 309




---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will be interested to hear if anyone responds to the mkillum questions.
I promise not to be too hard on people who make potshots or guesses, since
I don't know how to answer this myself.  -Greg
 

From artlite@iaccess.za Tue Mar  7 18:47:16 1995
Return-Path: <artlite@iaccess.za>
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 04:15:05 +0000
From: Artlite - Gavin Donaldson-Selby <artlite@iaccess.za>
Subject: Re: Radiance mail from Georg Mischler
To: "Gregory J. Ward" <greg@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Cc: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: R

With respect to the question of running SCO R12 on Linux I believe that 
Linux 1.2  -due to be released in the next few days- will have 
considerable Sparc and SCO binary compatibility. It might be worth 
waiting to see!

Regards
Gavin

|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
|  GH Donaldson-Selby                       Ph:     SA 31 225 2194     |
|  Dept. of Drama and Theatre Craft         Fax:    SA 31 223 405      |
|  Technikon Natal                          E-mail: artlite@iaccess.za |
|  Po Box 953                                                          |
|  Durban 4001                                  Linux for a GNU        |
|  Republic of South Africa.                      South Africa         |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|


From emo@cica.cica.indiana.edu Tue Mar  7 23:32:11 1995
Return-Path: <emo@cica.cica.indiana.edu>
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 01:59:47 -0500
From: "Eric Ost" <emo@cica.cica.indiana.edu>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov, u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de
Subject: Re: HW price/performance-usability
Status: RO

Greetings Georg,

This is a preliminary response to your note regarding low-cost hardware
and software environments for running Radiance and AutoCAD.

We have been running Radiance under Linux here for over a year and on
SGIs for a longer period than that.  Recently, the University installed
a cluster of 20+ SGI IndySCs.

Though I am unable to respond fully to your message at this moment,
this note it to let you know that there are other people out here 
running Radiance on 486/586 hardware under Linux.

In my next note I will attempt to address your questions pertaining to
raw speed, maintenance, support, and bugs.

More soon,

eric

ps: you asked specifically about the 586 fdiv bug.  Intel is supporting
a trade-in whereby you request a replacement 586 CPU that doesn't have
the fdiv bug and, in return, you send them your old CPU.  If you 
purchase a new 586 system, you can ask the salesperson if they know 
whether the CPU you're considering is one that has the fdiv bug.



From greg Thu Mar  9 11:33:45 1995
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 11:20:26 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: radiance-discuss
Subject: Radiance mail from Stephen Benson
Status: R

Here are some questions from Stephen Benson, who is one of many people who
has trouble with my silly mail server not accepting connections for the
radiance-discuss alias.  (Those who are lucky enough to have their mail
accepted are also rewarded by many bounced mails from bad addresses.  Ah,
the joys of modern life!)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm investigating ways of bringing models from other popular RTs into Radiance
(.nff looks like a good bet -- but I don't know much about it). There's a suite
of tools for RTrace/LightR on asterix.inescn.pt [192.35.246.17] that look
interesting):

>Here goes a short description of current converters from
>CAD/molecular/chemistry packages to the SCN format.
>
>The package programs are related as below (those marked with * have been
>modified)
>
>              irit2scn
>     IRIT ----------------|
>                          |               NFF (nffclean, nffp2pp)
>               sol2scn   |                |
> ACAD11/12 ---------------|                | nff2sff
>                          |                |
>               mol2scn   v    scn2sff*    v    rtrace*
>   ALCHEMY  -----------> SCN -----------> SFF ----------> PIC or PPM
>                         ^      cpp       ^                   |
>               pdb2scn   |                |                picmix
>     PDB -----------------|                |                picblend
>                         |                |                ppmmix
>              chem2scn   |          SPD generators         ppmblend
>   CHEMICAL --------------|             balls
>                          |             rings
>                3ds2scn   |             tetra
>  3D STUDIO --------------|             teapot
>                          |             ...
>                iv2scn    |
> IRIS Inventor -----------|
>                          |
>                obj2scn   |
>   Wavefront -------------|
>                          |
>                          |
>   LightR       lightr*   |
> (radiosity) -------------|
>
>
>Docs/sff*.ps.gz        | SFF spec in Postscript (GZIP)
>----------------+----------------------------------------------------------
>Docs/scn*.ps.gz        | SCN spec in Postscript (GZIP)
>----------------+----------------------------------------------------------
>nff.tar.Z      | the Eric Haines scene generators (NFF scenes)
>               |  Version 3.3 (= SPDup33b.tar.Z)
>----------------+----------------------------------------------------------
>nffutils.tar.Z | some programs for converting to NFF or to filter
>               |  NFF scenes with some problems...
>----------------+----------------------------------------------------------
>sff.tar.Z      | a converter from NFF to SFF (the input format of
>               |  the ray-tracer) (= nff2sff.tar.Z)
>--------------
Does anyone have any experience along these lines? Is it worth pursuing? And
any comments on the RTrace/LightR combination (which I'm yet to try).



--
: stephen benson  :   :   :   :   :   :   :   :  stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net


From M.F.A.Bierhuizen@TWI.TUDelft.NL Fri Mar 10 01:38:05 1995
Return-Path: <M.F.A.Bierhuizen@TWI.TUDelft.NL>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 10:37:14 +0100 (MET)
From: Maus <M.F.A.Bierhuizen@TWI.TUDelft.NL>
Subject: subscription
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: R

Could you please subscribe me to the Radiance discussion group?
Thanks!

Maurice Bierhuizen.
Delft University of Technology, The Netherlands.

From chas@innernet.com Fri Mar 10 03:52:55 1995
Return-Path: <chas@innernet.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 00:12:21 -0800
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: chas@innernet.com (Charles Ehrlich)
Subject: Re: Radiance mail from Georg Mischler
Status: R

Glad to hear your back, Georg.  I have made good use of your Torad program.
And perhaps you all would be interested to know that I hired a consultant
to port the Unix-AutoCAD ADS/C version of Torad called Radout by Philip
Thompson of MIT...to DOS and Windows.  Yes, this is a self-plug.  Radout
for Windows runs between 4 and 7 times faster than the respectable, but
hopelessly slow AutoLISP Torad.  I exported a 36,000 entity drawing in 15
minutes on a Pentium 90!  The binaries are available on my WWW server.  The
binaries are free with registration.  I am asking for a donation of $50 US 
from those who use it commercially which will also get you the source code,
if you so desire.  Point your favorate forms-capable WWW browser at:

        URL: http://innernet.com/radiance/home.html    pick  -> Radout <-

Special enhancements I funded include automatic 8.3 file naming from layer
names, support for closed 3DPLINES (3 or 4 vertices always work, more than
4 work if flat.)  And, the output prefix name now specifies the full pathname
to a directory, created if non existant, for the destination of the exported
Radiance stuff.  Oh yea, unique file naming is documented with a Layername
to filename lookup in the .RIF file.

Now onto your questions.  I designed and set up a Pentium 90 workstation
for a client which I use regularly.  I am very impressed with its speed!
It runs Yggdrasil Linux 1.0x, 48MB RAM, Stealth DRAM 24 PCI, on a 1Gig IDE,
2X CDROM, C3509, and 2-4GB DAT drive. Monitor is a 1200x1600 17" multi-sync
type.  Total cost $5500.00.  Actually, now that the replacement Pentium
has arrived, I bumped the motherboard up to 100Mhz and it all works 10% faster.
My solution to the AutoCAD for unix problem is to not bother with it.  When
I want to run AutoCAD, I just reboot the machine into DOS.  Don't despair, it
takes no more than 2 minutes...much faster than my beleagured 030 Mac at home!
Hence, the DOS/Windows port of Radout!  I chose the motherboard carefully
to maximize the amount of Cache SRAM and RAM configuration/expansion
flexibility.  The cache SRAM is important for Linux when there is more
than the standard 16MB of RAM.  Without it, the machine actually slows down.

I wish I had some profiling code to compile and run on it.  The Stealth
board took me way too long to configure, but now that it works, it SCREAMS!
The feel of this machine is faster than the Iris Indigo Extreme I used
six months ago.  Forget the Indy PC/SC!  The only time the machine shows
its processors brain-deadness is when pfilt/pcomb/p*** are used.  The
floating point slowness really slows it down...but not so much that it
bothers me.  Don't bother with $GI's!  For networking savvy, Linux can't
be beat.  If you find the right FAQ/Tips publication, you can set up the
machine to share a swap partition with Windows.  This won't help you with
AutoCAD, to my dismay, because it uses its own #$!&* page file system.

Raw speed
        blazes over 486's, no, gcc does not optomize for 586
        See above.  More money spent on the RAM than anything else.
        Forget the Indy

Maintenance
        Linux supports the DAT drive out of the box.  Just tar -cvf /dev/nst0
        and your sailing.  I used a Python DAT.  Creating users with
        the Yggdrasil version is supposed to be automated with a tcl
        script, but I always end up futzing with the /etc/passwd file.
        It does help to get the syntax right.
        No special maintenance needed so far, except replacement of the 586
        and changing a few jumpers for 100Mhz.
        Setup of Linux, regardless of what they'd like you to believe,
        is a bad dream (not quite a nightmare).
Support
        Excellent, user-base provided support.  No question has gone 
        unanswered by the various Usenet news groups longer than 4 hours!
        Cost is the cost of my internet link = $100/mo. full time.
        Plug--I am also available on a pre-arranged basis for Linux and
        Radiance support via phone or email.  $50-60/hr.

Bugs
        For the 4 months I worked with the FDVI Pentium, I experienced
        ZERO problems.  Whenever I suspected one, it was human (me) error.


Other considerations

        Novel has released Unixware 2.0 which supports a few popular,
        less-expensive than Sun, multi-processing Pentium boxes.  Unixware
        is now multi-threaded.  If I had the dough and needed renderings
        to finish before I let go of the RETURN key, I'd probably buy
        a 2-3 processor Pentium with Unixware 2.0.  On the other hand, I
        also might wait for the initial bugs of the 2.0 release to settle.
        This would only help for batch processing of images with the image
        split between separate processors, as you may already know.

        I'd check out the NFS on the AIX clusters.  Network Lock manager
        is even buggy on some Suns!  You should get good performance out
        of the PowerPC's in those AIX's.

        Radiance for DOS does exist in the form of Adeline.  Issues of
        maximum RAM supported by the RAM extender/loader still exist
        in my mind, but apparently, one version can support 64 MB of
        physical RAM and 2GB of virtual.  Adeline includes a few unix-
        like tools for making the whole suite, including mkillum, work
        under DOS.  Stay tuned.

Plans for use of Radiance

        What radiance needs is someone like Georg to write a forward
        ray-tracing module to help deal with the kinds of issues you
        are interested in tackling.  Greg spent a summer in Lusanne
        writing Mkillum, adding the prism2 stuff and other utilities
        for calculating prismatic glazing properties.

        Yes, theoretically if you had BRTF data that was complete, you
        could do without he air-glass interface of the prismatic glazing,
        but you'll spend as much money on gonio-reflectometer use as
        you would on radiance rendering.  It might even be cheaper to 
        hire a programmer to write the kind of code you need.  :-)

        To acheive _any_image_of_any_semblance_to_reality_ you'll need
        to use mkillum intil you're blue in the face.  As far as I
        understand, you'll have to use elaborate .cal files regardless
        of the method you employ (see prism.cal).

        In a very old version of Radiance, I remember that there existed
        a compile-time option for enabling wavelength dependant refractive
        index simulation.  What has happened with this option, Greg?
        You will have to use three .cal files, three sets of BRTF and .dat
        files, and three times the calculation time (?).

        As far as separating the direct and indirect sky components, I'm
        not sure.  I bet there would be a way to write an rcalc/.cal
        routine that would add the two sets of numbers together, but if
        you know awk or perl, it might be easier to do it that way.
        As far as getting the input, I modified gensky.c to add a
        command line option to turn off the sky (only the solar source left).
        I also, incidently, created a version that would let me specify the 
        color of the solar source on the !genclrsky command line.

Congrats on your new (?) job at Tageslichtsysteme!

-Chas

+-------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Ehrlich               |  Radiance Consulting & Training for     |
| Space & Light                 |  Lighting  & Daylighting Analysis       |
| radiance@innernet.com         |  Energy Efficiency and Visual Comfort   |
| 842 Folsom St. #197, SF, CA   |                                         |
| 415 905-4438 24hr messages    |  http://innernet.com/radiance/home.html |
+-------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+



From vancaneg@esemetz.ese-metz.fr Thu Mar  9 02:06:16 1995
Return-Path: <vancaneg@esemetz.ese-metz.fr>
Date: Thu Mar 09 10:54:00 1995
From: vancaneg@esemetz.ese-metz.fr
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Mailer: <WinQVT/Net v3.9>
Status: RO

subscribe Nicolas Van Caneghem

From u2126609@arch.unsw.EDU.AU Mon Mar 20 21:31:35 1995
Return-Path: <u2126609@arch.unsw.EDU.AU>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:31:12 +1000 (EST)
From: Mwaniki WA-GICHIA <u2126609@keystone.arch.unsw.EDU.AU>
Subject: Subscription
To: Radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: R

Hi, 
Could you please subsribe me?

Thankyou,
Mwaniki.

University of New South Wales,
School of Architecture, 
SOLARCH,
Kensington 2052
NSW 
Australia.

From root@jenlain.via.ecp.fr Tue Mar 21 10:03:00 1995
Return-Path: <root@jenlain.via.ecp.fr>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:57:31 +0100
From: root <root@jenlain.via.ecp.fr>
To: GJWard@lbl.gov
Status: R

~s New RADIANCE 2.4 user
Mail address:
	Thomas JACQUES
	Residence ECP - chambre I124
	2 avenue Sully Prudhomme
	92290 CHATENAY-MALABRY
	FRANCE
Phone: 46837948
E-mail: jacquet7@cti.ecp.fr
Add to discussion group: y
Add to mailing list: y
Machine: jenlain.via.ecp.fr
System: linux
Source: friends
Application:

From pauden@slim.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 21 16:00:33 1995
Return-Path: <pauden@slim.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 07:34:05 GMT
From: Paul Auden <pauden@slim.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: pauden@slim.demon.co.uk
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: (none)
X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10
Lines: 1
Status: R

subscribe radiance-discuss Paul Auden

From u2126609@arch.unsw.EDU.AU Wed Mar 22 20:53:06 1995
Return-Path: <u2126609@arch.unsw.EDU.AU>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 14:38:47 +1000 (EST)
From: Mwaniki WA-GICHIA <u2126609@keystone.arch.unsw.EDU.AU>
Sender: Mwaniki WA-GICHIA <u2126609@keystone.arch.unsw.EDU.AU>
Reply-To: Mwaniki WA-GICHIA <u2126609@keystone.arch.unsw.EDU.AU>
Subject: Accurate measurements of Illuminance 
To: Radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Status: R

Hi Radiance users,

My name is Mwaniki, a Phd student at the  School of Architecture, University
of New South Wales, Sydney, studying daylighting in buildings. My 
particular interest is the interaction of sunlight with buildings.

One of our research units recently acquired the "Adeline" programme, with 
"Radiance" intergrated within, which runs on PCs on the DOS operating 
system. In running Radiance, I am having difficulties in obtaining readings of 
illuminance on points at horizontal and vertical surfaces once a scene has 
been rendered.

What steps should I consider to achieve this? Also, is there a way of
plotting off graphs of readings taken, directly, in the DOS environment. 
I would highly appreciate some insight on this.

-Mwaniki.



                                                                               




From rn@sci.kup.fca.de Fri Mar 24 01:14:32 1995
Return-Path: <rn@sci.kup.fca.de>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:09:38 +0100
From: Rolf Neugebauer <rn@sci.kup.fca.de>
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re:  subsribe
Status: R


Hi

I'd like to subscribe to both lists.

Rolf

From u2126609@arch.unsw.EDU.AU Mon Mar 27 16:06:35 1995
Return-Path: <u2126609@arch.unsw.EDU.AU>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 09:50:00 +1000 (EST)
From: Mwaniki WA-GICHIA <u2126609@keystone.arch.unsw.EDU.AU>
Subject: Illuminance at points.
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: R

Hi Radiance users,

My name is Mwaniki wa-Gichia, a Phd student at the  School of Architecture, 
University of New South Wales, Sydney, studying daylighting in buildings. My
particular interest is the interaction of sunlight with buildings.

One of our research units recently acquired the "Adeline" programme, with
"Radiance" intergrated within, which runs on PCs on the DOS operating
system. In running Radiance in this environment, I am having difficulties in 
obtaining illuminance on points at horizontal and vertical surfaces once a
scene has been rendered.

What steps should I consider, to achieve this?I would highly appreciate some
insight on this.

-Mwaniki.

From Martin_Moeck@macmail.lbl.gov Thu Mar 30 08:49:47 1995
Return-Path: <Martin_Moeck@macmail.lbl.gov>
Date: 30 Mar 1995 08:49:12 U
From: "Martin Moeck" <Martin_Moeck@macmail.lbl.gov>
Subject: FWD>Illuminance measurement
To: "Martin Moeck" <Martin_Moeck@macmail.lbl.gov>
X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP/QM 3.0.0
Status: RO

Mail*Link(r) SMTP               FWD>Illuminance measurements


        Reply to:   RE>Accurate measurements of Illuminance 

You have two options for doing this:

1.) use the falsecolor program
2.) use rtrace

Option 2 works as follows:

a) Note the x y z -coordinates of all the points you are interested in. If you
have difficulties obtaining those,  hit the "t"-key and then the return-key
while running rview
b) create a textfile called samples.inp and write the following information
into it:
x-coordinate-1 y-coordinate-1 z-coordinate-1 x-dir y-dir z-dir
x-coordinate-2 y-coordinate-2 z-coordinate-2 x-dir y-dir z-dir
...
for all the points you are interested in. x-dir y-dir z-dir stands for the
direction of measurement (in which direction is the photocell aimed). For a
sensor looking straight up, it would be 0 0 1. For a sensor on a wall looking
east, it would be 1 0 0 . 
b) execute the following command :
rtrace -h -I -ab 2 -ad 128 -av .02 .02 .02 your_octree_name < samples.inp |
rcalc -e $1=$1*54+$2*106+$3*20 > samples.out
You will find illuminance values for all the listed points in the file
samples.out

Hope that helps

Martin Moeck
Lawrence Berkeley Lab.
Building Technologies Program
Berkeley, CA
e-mail mmoeck@lbl.gov

From iedsp@agt.gmeds.com Thu Mar 30 12:36:58 1995
Return-Path: <iedsp@agt.gmeds.com>
From: iedsp@agt.gmeds.com (David S. Pesetsky (317)-230-6088 AGT/8880)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 15:21:25 EST
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: What/where is "make"?
Status: R

I downloaded and compiled Radiance 2.4 on my RS6000 and noticed a reference
in the "rad" man page to a program called "make". I don't see "make" in the bin directory...
What is it and where do I get it?

Dave

From RGMARC@ENGR.PSU.EDU Thu Mar 30 13:03:01 1995
Return-Path: <RGMARC@ENGR.PSU.EDU>
Date: 30 Mar 1995 16:01:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Richard G. Mistrick" <RGMARC@ENGR.PSU.EDU>
Subject: Modeling a bollard
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov, radiance-discuss@lbl.gov
X-Vms-To: IN%"radiance-discuss@lbl.gov",IN%"greg@hobbes.lbl.gov"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Status: R


A student of mine is trying to model an exterior bollard (a cylinder with a
light emitting area which is a portion of the cylinder near the top).  An IES
photometric file is being used as input.  Could someone provide some
advice to help us get an accurate model?

The ies2rad command creates a rectangular light source.  We have modified
this area to be a cylinder and have assigned the light emitting modifier (the
candela distribution) provided by ies2rad for the rectangle to this cylinder.
Is it necessary to account for the fact that the cylinder has a different 
area than the rectangle?  Will the distribution be handled properly since the 
cylinder surface is essentially vertical, but the rectangular surface is 
horizontal?  

Additional questions involve the modeling of the cylinder to have the luminous
outside of the luminous portion of the cylinder treated as a light emitting 
surface.  In simply running rpict, the cylinder is considered as a point 
source.  This results in shadowing by the bollard's base.  Are there key 
options in rpict or options in rad that will consider the light to be emitted 
from the outside surface of the cylinder and not be therefore not be shadowed 
by the metal pole on which it rests?

Any technical advice on these issues to help us achieve accurate calculations 
is greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

Richard G. Mistrick, Ph.D.
Department of Architectural Engineering
Penn State University                   Phone:    (814) 863-2086
104 Engineering "A"                     FAX:      (814) 863-4789
University Park, PA  16802              Internet: rgmarc@engr.psu.edu


From cloister@hhhh.org Thu Mar 30 13:20:43 1995
Return-Path: <cloister@hhhh.org>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 12:47:27 -0800 (PST)
From: cloister bell <cloister@hhhh.org>
To: "David S. Pesetsky (317)-230-6088 AGT/8880" <iedsp@agt.gmeds.com>
Cc: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re: What/where is "make"?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: R

> I downloaded and compiled Radiance 2.4 on my RS6000 and noticed a reference
> in the "rad" man page to a program called "make". I don't see "make" in the bin directory...
> What is it and where do I get it?

make is the standard unix utility for controlling complicated 
compilations.  thus, there is no reason to expect to see it in radiance's 
bin directory.  on my system, it's in /usr/bin/make, and you ought to be 
able to read about it using "man make".

From greg Thu Mar 30 17:09:22 1995
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 16:42:40 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: radiance-discuss
Subject: Re:  Modeling a bollard
Status: R


Hi Rick,

This is going to sound really stupid, but your best bet with the current
implementation of ies2rad is to use the "-i rad" option to specify an illum
source of radius "rad" instead of the default geometry.  For the radius,
you should use a largish number, say equal to the height of the original
emitting cylinder.  If you don't intend to set PENUMBRAS to True in your
rad input file or set the -dj rendering option, you can increase the illum
radius further to reduce the pole shadow problem.  Otherwise, if you do
request penumbras, rpict will overestimate them more the larger this radius
is.

I feel like I should apologize for the poor source sampling code in Radiance,
but the speed of these routines is so important to the rendering time, that
getting fancy with them would undoubtedly be a mistake for most scenes.
The other problem is of course that ies2rad is not as clever as it might
be in generating source geometry.  In the future, the situation will improve
as MGF (the Materials and Geometry Format) is adopted by the IES to supplement
the impoverished geometry information currently contained in luminaire files,
but even this will not fix the kind of problem you are seeing here with source
interference.

Good luck.
-Greg

From borel@sensor2.LANL.GOV Thu Mar 30 15:14:36 1995
Return-Path: <borel@sensor2.LANL.GOV>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 16:09:47 +0700
From: borel@sensor2.LANL.GOV (Christoph Borel)
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: subscribe
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Content-Length: 609
Status: RO

Please subscribe me - thanks Chris
e-mail address : cborel@lanl.gov

*==========================================================================*
* Christoph C. Borel, Nonproliferation and International Security Division *
* Astrophysics and Radiation Measurements Group, NIS-2, MS D436,           * 
* Los Alamos National Laboratory                                           *
* Los Alamos, NM 87545, USA, (505)-667-8972 FAX (505)-667-3815             *
* E-mail : borel@sensor2.lanl.gov or ccb@lanl.gov or cborel@lanl.gov       *
*==========================================================================*

From iedsp@agt.gmeds.com Fri Mar 31 07:40:51 1995
Return-Path: <iedsp@agt.gmeds.com>
From: iedsp@agt.gmeds.com (David S. Pesetsky (317)-230-6088 AGT/8880)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 10:24:22 EST
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Intensity with distance
Status: R

Does Radiance 2.4 correctly take into account the decrease in intensity
with distance from the light source?

Dave

From greg Fri Mar 31 10:52:13 1995
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 10:40:07 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: iedsp@agt.gmeds.com, radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re:  Intensity with distance
Status: R

iedsp@agt.gmeds.com (David S. Pesetsky) asks:

> Does Radiance 2.4 correctly take into account the decrease in intensity
> with distance from the light source?

The short answer is 'yes.'  The long answer is that Radiance does make
certain approximations for the sake of computational efficiency in the
computation of solid angles, which may show up as small errors in some
extreme situations.  These errors in the fall-off (solid angle) calculation
are usually insignificant relative to visibility errors, which are
minimized but not eliminated by Monte Carlo source sampling.

I guess what I'm saying is that the software is not perfect in its calculation
of light source contributions, but it's a lot closer than what you might
get in a standard ray-tracer and quite good enough for most purposes.

-Greg

From M.Velds@bk.tudelft.nl Wed Apr  5 00:25:32 1995
Return-Path: <M.Velds@bk.tudelft.nl>
X-Sender: bksvelds@dutkitm.bk.tudelft.nl
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 1995 09:22:42 +0100
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward)
From: M.Velds@bk.tudelft.nl (Martine Velds)
Subject: Re:  SUBSCRIBE
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4b18>
Status: R

>Re:  Radiance mailing list subscription request
>
>Subscribe to which list?  The moderated announcement and digest mailing list,
>or the unmoderated discussion group?  Usually people subscribe either to
>the announcement list only, or to both lists.
>
>-Greg
>
>
Please subscribe to both lists,

Thanks, Martine Velds


From iedsp@agt.gmeds.com Wed Apr  5 08:23:30 1995
Return-Path: <iedsp@agt.gmeds.com>
From: iedsp@agt.gmeds.com (David S. Pesetsky (317)-230-6088 AGT/8880)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 95 09:16:29 EST
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: I moved the lib files and Rad can't find some stuff...
Status: R

Is there a way to tell Rad and Rpict where to find the lib files? I moved them
and now it's complaining it can't find some files...

Dave

From emo@cica.cica.indiana.edu Wed Apr  5 08:55:25 1995
Return-Path: <emo@cica.cica.indiana.edu>
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:32:31 -0500
From: "Eric Ost" <emo@cica.cica.indiana.edu>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re: I moved the lib files and Rad can't find some stuff...
Status: R

Greetings Dave,

The "RAYPATH" shell environment variable can contain a list of directories
to be inspected for Radiance library files.

For example, if the distributed lib directory is /usr/radiance/lib
and you also want to search the two additional directories
/usr/projects/bigproj/lib and /u/iesdp/raylib, as well as search the
current working directory, ., then you could set RAYPATH as follows:

setenv RAYPATH ".:/usr/projects/bigproj/lib:/u/iesdp/raylib:/usr/radiance/lib"

Radiance will then search the directories in the order given, from left to
right, until it locates the target file or runs out of places to look.

eric



From atif@irc.lan.nrc.ca Wed Apr  5 11:46:20 1995
Return-Path: <atif@irc.lan.nrc.ca>
From: "Atif, Morad" <atif@irc.lan.nrc.ca>
To: greg <greg@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Subject: Re:  Subscribe
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 95 14:21:00 EDT
Encoding: 21 TEXT
X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0
Status: R


I will subscribe to both lists for now please.  Thanks.

Morad Atif
Building Performance Laboratory
National research Council Canada
Atif@IRC.LAN.NRC.CA
 ----------
From: greg
To: atif
Subject: Re:  Subscribe
Date: Monday, April 03, 1995 9:30AM

Re:  Radiance mailing list subscription request

Subscribe to which list?  The moderated announcement and digest mailing 
list,
or the unmoderated discussion group?  Usually people subscribe either to
the announcement list only, or to both lists.

 -Greg

From M.F.A.Bierhuizen@TWI.TUDelft.NL Thu Apr  6 02:49:32 1995
Return-Path: <M.F.A.Bierhuizen@TWI.TUDelft.NL>
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:33:57 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Maus <M.F.A.Bierhuizen@TWI.TUDelft.NL>
Subject: Anisotropic Materials
To: Radiance Mailing List <radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: R

Hello there,

I just read the SIGGRAPH '92 article  'Measuring and Modelling 
Anisotropic Reflection' by Greg Ward. At the end of this article is a 
table with some numbers for elliptical Gaussian fits for materials I 
would like to use. In this table for each material are specified: the 
diffuse reflection (rho_d), the specular reflection (rho_s), the RMS 
slope in the x direction (alpha_x) and the RMS slope in the y direction 
(alpha_y). Now my question is, how do I use them in Radiance? If I use 
the types plastic2 or metal2 I don't know where the diffuse reflection 
parameter should go. Should I use the BDRF type to write my own BDRF 
function? 
If neither of these is possible, does anyone know where to find this kind 
of accurate figures that can be used in Radiance. I'm particularly 
interested in aluminium, zinc, white paint, rubber and white PVC.
Greetings,

Maurice Bierhuizen. 


From greg Thu Apr  6 09:37:24 1995
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 09:37:02 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: M.F.A.Bierhuizen@TWI.TUDelft.NL
Subject: Re:  Anisotropic Materials
Status: R

Hi Maurice,

Applying the numbers in the '92 paper to Radiance is pretty straightforward,
since the reflectance model used by plastic, metal, plastic2 and metal2
correspond to the isotropic and anisotropic Gaussian BRDF's presented in
the paper.  Let's take two examples, one for plastic and the other for
metal.  Since the paper does not give any spectral (i.e. color) measurements
for the materials, we'll assume a uniform (grey) spectrum.

For the plastic example, we'll use the isotropic "glossy grey paper".  The
parameters given in the article for this are rho_d=.29, rho_s=.083, alpha_x
and alpha_y=.082.  The Radiance primitive for this material would be:

	void plastic glossy_grey_paper
	0
	0
	5 .32 .32 .32 .083 .082

The reason the diffuse color above is not (.29 .29 .29) is because this
value gets multiplied by (1-.083) to arrive at the actual rho_d, so we
had to divide our rho_d of .29 by (1-.083), which is (approximately) .32.

For the metal example, we'll use the anisotropic "rolled aluminum", whose
parameters from the article are rho_d=.1, rho_s=.21, alpha_x=.04, and
alpha_y=.09.  The Radiance primitive, assuming the material is brushed
in the world z-direction (i.e. is rougher in the other directions),
would be:

	void metal2 rolled_aluminum
	4 0 0 1 .
	0
	6 .31 .31 .31 .68 .04 .09

The orientation vector given in the first line (0 0 1) is the world
z-direction, which will correspond to the direction of the first
roughness parameter, which is .04 in our example.  It is important not
to confuse the article's x and y directions with world coordinates,
which may be different.  If we wanted our surface orientation to change
over space, we might have used a function file in place of the '.'
above and given variables instead of constants for the orientation
vector.

Computing the diffuse and specular parameters for metal is even trickier
than plastic.  The formulas below apply for D and S, where D is the
(uncolored) diffuse parameter and S is the specular parameter:

	D = rho_d + rho_s
	S = rho_s/(rho_d + rho_s)

These formulae are needed because the specular component is multiplied by
the material color for metals to get the actual rho_s.

I hope this clarifies rather than muddies the waters....

-Greg

From greg Mon Apr 10 09:41:55 1995
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 95 08:45:00 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: radiance-discuss
Subject: and from Martin...
Status: R

Martin had the following response for Maurice, which he asked me to forward.
(I had sent my original reply to Maurice only without noticing that he had
posted this to the discussion group.)

-Greg
--------------------
Here is a simple example without a function file:

void plastic2 red_plastic
4 1 1 1 .
0
6 .9 .2 .1 .3 .15 .22

The line "4 1 1 1 ." describes the orientation of the anisotropy (distortion of
highlights) . The vector "1 1 1" will be projected onto all the surfaces that
carry this material. 

The diffuse reflectance is given in this line:
"6 .9 .2 .1 .3 .15 .22"
The values .9 .2 .1 stand for RGB and .3 stands for specularity S
To compute reflectance, the formula is for plastic:
(.263*R + .655*G + .82*B)*(1-S) + S
To compute reflectance for metal:
.263*R + .655*G + .82*B
The formulae are described in the Radiance digest. You can find it on the
Radiance server. 

To give you an example with a function file, I would have to give it a try
first. I think it would be a good idea if Greg would show us one of his
function files.

Martin Moeck
Building Technologiesa Program
Lawrence Berkeley Lab
e-mail mmoeck@lbl.gov

From iedsp@agt.gmeds.com Mon Apr 10 11:35:05 1995
Return-Path: <iedsp@agt.gmeds.com>
From: iedsp@agt.gmeds.com (David S. Pesetsky (317)-230-6088 AGT/8880)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 95 10:56:53 EST
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Are there any CAD packages for...
Status: R

I'm looking for a CAD program to help me create general objects
for use in Radiance on my UNIX  system (IBM RISC6000 running AIX). 
Are there any and what's the best one (shareware/freeware please...).

Please e-mail me your response...THANKS.

Dave  (iedsp@agt.gmeds.com)

From Postmaster@garnet.nist.gov Wed Apr  5 20:12:08 1995
Return-Path: <Postmaster@garnet.nist.gov>
X-Listname: "sci.engr.lighting <==> Aux Mailing List" <Lighting@garnet.nist.gov>
Warnings-To: <>
Errors-To: Postmaster@garnet.nist.gov
Sender: Postmaster@garnet.nist.gov
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 1995 21:41:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: WHEELER JEFFREY G <wheeler@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>
Reply-To: Lighting@garnet.nist.gov
To: lighting@garnet.nist.gov
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Status: RO


Subscribe

From jeff@Ika_Pon_Pon.umn.edu Thu Apr 27 06:49:12 1995
Return-Path: <jeff@Ika_Pon_Pon.umn.edu>
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 17:51:05 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jeff Halverson <jeff@Ika_Pon_Pon.umn.edu>
Reply-To: halv0019@gold.tc.umn.edu
To: "Gregory J. Ward" <greg@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: which list?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO



On Wed, 26 Apr 1995, Gregory J. Ward wrote:

> Re:  Radiance mailing list subscription request
> 
> Subscribe to which list?  The moderated announcement and digest mailing list,
> or the unmoderated discussion group?  Usually people subscribe either to
> the announcement list only, or to both lists.
> 
> -Greg
> 
> 
Sorry, I didn't realize there where multiple lists. I'd like to be on both.
Thank you.

Jeff Halverson


From jeff@Ika_Pon_Pon.umn.edu Wed Apr 26 15:08:59 1995
Return-Path: <jeff@Ika_Pon_Pon.umn.edu>
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 16:17:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jeff Halverson <jeff@Ika_Pon_Pon.umn.edu>
Reply-To: halv0019@gold.tc.umn.edu
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: subscribe
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO

subscribe halv0019@gold.tc.umn.edu

From ramil@maclaren.u-strasbg.fr Tue Apr 25 03:42:24 1995
Return-Path: <ramil@maclaren.u-strasbg.fr>
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 12:42:46 +0200
From: ramil@maclaren.u-strasbg.fr
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Content-Length: 54
Status: RO

Please add me to the list
ramil@maclaren.u-strasbg.fr

From tias@ifib.uni-karlsruhe.de Thu May  4 09:12:12 1995
Return-Path: <tias@ifib.uni-karlsruhe.de>
From: Mathias Wambsganss <tias@ifib.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 18:05:46 +0200
Original-Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.95)
Pp-Warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line
Original-Received: by 
                   NeXT Mailer (1.95)
Pp-Warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: my name to the radiance-discuss list
Cc: tias@ifib.uni-karlsruhe.de
Status: R

Hi Greg,
my name is Mathias Wambsganss from the University of Karlsruhe. In  
spring 1993 I visit you and Werner Osterhaus in the LBL to take a  
first look to radiance. Now I work a lot with it and naturaly I have  
some problems. To help me and my Diplom-work it would be very helpful  
to put my name to the radiance-discuss list. I think this could be a  
good forum for me to listen other user's and ask my questions.
Okay I hope you can handle request.
Many thanks in front and

CIAO Mathias

PS: I should send you greetings from Niklaus Kohler (he stands right  
beside me) and plaese give some greetings to Werner from Martina and  
me.........bye.
 

From greg Thu May 11 13:21:20 1995
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Thu, 11 May 95 13:07:56 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: radiance-discuss
Subject: Radiance translator for FormZ
Status: R

Can anyone help this guy?  I don't know much of anything about FormZ or
the formats it supports.

Thanks.
-Greg

------------
>From lub@vince.architektur.uni-stuttgart.de Thu May 11 12:27:50 1995
Return-Path: <lub@vince.architektur.uni-stuttgart.de>
Date: Thu, 11 May 95 21:25:08 MDT
From: lub@vince.architektur.uni-stuttgart.de (Lars Uwe Bleher)
To: GJWard@lbl.gov
Subject: Form%Z-Radiance
Status: RO


Re: Form%Z-Radiance
 
Dear Greg Ward,
 
I am a student of architecture in Stuttgart/Germany, working on my final thesis. Since I model my project on Mac with Form%Z (and others) I try to figure out what format to use when I want to render a  Form%Z - model with Radiance.
 
The Form%Z tech-support suggested among other things (that sound like  they would take significant effort in processing) to purchase the CAD Mover by Kandu. 
Form%Z exports in (a.o.) IGES, DXF, STL, 3DGF file formats.
 
Is there a smarter and cheaper way ? I would by very happy to get your input,
 
Thanks in advance,
 
Lars Uwe Bleher
MArch.
lub@vince.architektur.uni-stuttgart.de



From emo@cica.cica.indiana.edu Thu May 11 13:55:48 1995
Return-Path: <emo@cica.cica.indiana.edu>
Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 15:37:05 -0500
From: "Eric Ost" <emo@cica.cica.indiana.edu>
To: lub@vince.architektur.uni-stuttgart.de, radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re: Radiance translator for FormZ
Status: R

Greetings Lars,

You wrote:
>Since I model my project on Mac with Form%Z (and others) 
>I try to figure out wh at format to use when I want to render a  
>Form%Z - model with Radiance.
 
>Form%Z exports in (a.o.) IGES, DXF, STL, 3DGF file formats.
 
If you can export your model in AutoCAD DXF format, you can try using
dxfcvt which is distributed with Radiance in the subdirectory src/cv/dxfcvt.

Good luck,

eric


From jadi@fago.bwk.tue.nl Wed May 31 01:14:54 1995
Return-Path: <jadi@fago.bwk.tue.nl>
Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 10:14:31 +0200
From: jadi@fago.bwk.tue.nl (Jan Diepens)
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: subscribe
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Status: R

subscribe radiance discussion list

Jan Diepens

Eindhoven University of Technology
Faculty of Building and Architecture
P.O. Box 513
5600 MB Eindhoven, The Netherlands

Email: jadi@fago.bwk.tue.nl 

From ntenout@ulb.ac.be Sat Jun  3 17:21:37 1995
Return-Path: <ntenout@ulb.ac.be>
From: ntenout@ulb.ac.be (Tenoutasse Nicolas)
Subject: Congratulations !
To: greg@pink.lbl.gov
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 1995 02:21:17 +0200 (DST)
Status: R

Hi !!

I'm an computer graphics fan ! and since some months, I've discovered
Radiance which (like you surely already know) GREAT. The only thing
I don't understant really is why is so less knonw ! POV is the king
(with respect to popularity) after that maybe polyray/rayshade

But Radiance is just unknown but GREAT..

The reason why i write you is that i read somewhere (surely on my
computer screen but in what file ?) that there where a Radiance mailing
list and you have to register with Greg Ward himself ! so here I am.

Bye

Nico



From abela@astro.sp-agency.ca Thu Jun  8 13:07:35 1995
Return-Path: <abela@astro.sp-agency.ca>
From: "Marc Abela" <abela@porthos.astro.sp-agency.ca>
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 00:50:28 -0700
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Mailing list
Status: RO

Hi.

Could you add my name on the mailing list for the Radiance Digest, please?

"abela@astro.sp-agency.ca" is the address.

Thanks.

-- 
________________________________________________________________
Marc Abela				Canadian Space Agency
abela@astro.sp-agency.ca		Canadian Astronaut Program

From n6142@mail.vistec.net Fri Jun  9 02:40:41 1995
Return-Path: <n6142@mail.vistec.net>
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 95 11:44 MET DST
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: n6142@mail.vistec.net (Harald J. Loydl)
Subject: subscribe
Status: RO

I subscribe for the radiance-discussion group.
My E-Mail address is: Harald.Loydl@mainz.netsurf.de


From meyer@arch.ethz.ch Sun Jun 11 23:38:58 1995
Return-Path: <meyer@arch.ethz.ch>
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 08:40:36 +0200
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: meyer@arch.ethz.ch (Vital M. Meyer)
Subject: discussion group
Status: RO

please subscribe me to the RADIANCE discussion groupe.

thanks  vm
-------------------------------------------------------------
Vital Meyer (meyer@arch.ethz.ch) 
Institut fuer Hochbautechnik, Bauphysik (Building Technology)
ETH-Hoenggerberg/HIL,  CH-8093 Zurich, Switzerland
Tel:     ++41 1 633 26 70
Telefax: ++41 1 633 10 41
-------------------------------------------------------------


From greg Wed Jun 14 00:59:50 1995
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 95 00:46:40 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: radiance-discuss
Subject: question about VGA graphics
Status: R

Here is a question from someone about VGA graphics (bleah).

>From novebaru@inet.uni-c.dk Tue Jun 13 23:29:07 1995
Return-Path: <novebaru@inet.uni-c.dk>
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 08:28:02 +0200 (METDST)
From: Shaul Baruch <novebaru@inet.uni-c.dk>
Subject: VGA graphics (fwd)
To: Ward greg <greg@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Status: R


Hi Greg, 
For some reason I cant get this message through to the disccusion group.
Can you help me out? 
Thanks 
Shaul.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 15:13:23 +0200 (METDST)
From: Shaul Baruch <novebaru@inet.uni-c.dk>
To: Radiance-discuss <radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Subject: VGA graphics

Hi all Radiance funs,

My name is Shaul Baruch, and I have been using Radiance (on & off) for the
past year and a half.
I have just got myself a new IBM 750 p100 (pentium 100 Mhz) which has a
built in S3 864 graphic card.
My problem is that the vgaimage.exe can not ! find out that the S3 864 
graphic card has an 1240x1024 (256 color) devesion.

Please do not get irritated , I know that this question might have been 
raised before, but since I could not find it in my files , I hope there 
is that can help me.

I just would like to indicate that I had a similar problem with an 486 IBM 
8590 machine which has a build-in XGA card. 
In order to solve that , I had to invest in a Orchid graphic card with a 
1024x768 256 color card.

ps.
When running the checkvga.exe on the new pentium 100 , I get an answer 
that the best mode which is available is mode 19 ! 320x200 (256 color)
or mode 18 640x480 (16 color), while the real capacity is 1280x1024 (256 
color)

Thanks for your help!

Shaul.




From tony@iac.net Wed Jun 14 16:27:58 1995
Return-Path: <tony@iac.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 19:10:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tony <tony@iac.net>
To: "Gregory J. Ward" <greg@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Cc: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re: question about VGA graphics
Status: RO



> My name is Shaul Baruch, and I have been using Radiance (on & off) for the
> past year and a half.
> I have just got myself a new IBM 750 p100 (pentium 100 Mhz) which has a
> built in S3 864 graphic card.
> My problem is that the vgaimage.exe can not ! find out that the S3 864 
> graphic card has an 1240x1024 (256 color) devesion.
> 
> Please do not get irritated , I know that this question might have been 
> raised before, but since I could not find it in my files , I hope there 
> is that can help me.
> 
> I just would like to indicate that I had a similar problem with an 486 IBM 
> 8590 machine which has a build-in XGA card. 
> In order to solve that , I had to invest in a Orchid graphic card with a 
> 1024x768 256 color card.
> 
> ps.
> When running the checkvga.exe on the new pentium 100 , I get an answer 
> that the best mode which is available is mode 19 ! 320x200 (256 color)
> or mode 18 640x480 (16 color), while the real capacity is 1280x1024 (256 
> color)
> 
> Thanks for your help!
> 
> Shaul.
> 

Its being a long time since I programmed graphics cards in assembler
but I think this will give you some useful insight:

- VESA Consortium has standardized some SVGA modes. I am not sure if
  your screen and color resolution belongs to any 'standard' SVGA mode,
  so it would be no surprise that you get the mode 19 as the highest
  screen/color resolution.

- A lot depends one the adapater BIOS. They will probably try to make
  the board compatible with all common 'standard' modes but, if they want
  to add anything extra, it becomes something specific for the particular
  vendor and its BIOS implementation.

- You will probably need more documentation about your adapter from
  your vendor. Like, what to do to switch the board to such resolution
  as you would like to use and that is advertised as supported by the board.

- Then you have to change Radiance VGA program source so that the
  required mode setup is executed on initialization. This is usually
  a couple of writes to certain IO ports so it boild down to knowing
  the address of the port and the value of byte (s) to write.

Good luck, Tony

From pavlos@etesian.meteolab.ariadne-t.gr Wed Jun 21 08:23:02 1995
Return-Path: <pavlos@etesian.meteolab.ariadne-t.gr>
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 18:20:10 +0300
From: pavlos@etesian.meteolab.ariadne-t.gr (Pavlos Kassomenos)
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Status: RO

 from : aris tsangrassoulis

 to : Greg Ward

 Pleae subscribe me to the umoderated discussion group for RADIANCE


 the e mail adress is : pavlos@etesian.meteolab.ariadnet.gr



From @post.demon.co.uk:dave@acedia.demon.co.uk Sun Jul  2 09:39:10 1995
Return-Path: <@post.demon.co.uk:dave@acedia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 20:17:35 GMT
From: David S Baker <dave@acedia.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: dave@acedia.demon.co.uk
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Discussion Group Subscribe
X-User: Alpha Test Version Of FI-Mail, DisWin  1.5C:\WINSOCK\WINDIS
Lines: 12
Status: R

Greg,

   It was good to meet you at the recent BEPAC conference in England.  I was 
very interested in what you had to say about the radiance package and your 
insight into the subject was very enlightening.  Thanks.

Please add me to the Discussion Group list.

-- 
David S Baker
Environmental Services Department
Roger Preston & Partners

From jlm@gamsau.cnrs-mrs.fr Sun Jul  9 23:29:02 1995
Return-Path: <jlm@gamsau.cnrs-mrs.fr>
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 08:13:40 +0200
From: Jean-Louis Maltret-GAMSAU <jlm@gamsau.cnrs-mrs.fr>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Color model
Status: RO

Dear Radiance users,

We are working now on the color model in Radiance. The aim is to use the AC1C2
model, which is in principle superior than the standard RGB model, following
the Meyer's results.
At the same time we implement complex refractive index in "dielectric" 
material to take in account physical properties of metals.
These features have been already implemented in other ray-tracers, with
encouraging results (DBW by Patrick Callet <callet@pl.ecp.fr>) and we hope
that, with quality of Radiance, the result would be better.

If somebody has tried this modification, or something resembling, we should
be interested by exchange of experience or information.

Thanks.

========================================================
Jean-Louis MALTRET         GAMSAU               
Tel: (33)91.82.71.64       Ecole d'Architecture         
Fax: (33)91.82.71.71	   184 Avenue de Luminy 
jlm@gamsau.cnrs-mrs.fr     F-13288 MARSEILLE Cedex 09
========================================================


From meinrad@marina.scn.de Wed Jul 12 00:08:01 1995
Return-Path: <meinrad@marina.scn.de>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 09:07:03 +0200 (MET DST)
From: meinrad@scn.de
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: subscription request
Status: R

Please subscribe me to both lists, the moderated announcement and digest
mailing list and the unmoderated discussion group.

Thanks and greetings from 

     Meinrad Scheibleger
     Traunreut
     Germany


From nflasne@nintendo.fr Thu Jul 13 09:22:51 1995
Return-Path: <nflasne@nintendo.fr>
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 18:27:14 +0200
From: nflasne@nintendo.fr
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov, nflasne@nintendo.fr
Subject: Re:  Newsgroup
Status: R

Yes, I'm interested in suscribing to both list.
here is where you reach me : Didier.Lasne@nintendo.fr
Thank you.

From mgix@spimageworks.com Thu Jul 13 10:33:14 1995
Return-Path: <mgix@spimageworks.com>
From: mgix@spimageworks.com (Emmanuel Mogenet)
Subject: subscribe Emmanuel Mogenet
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 10:00:12 -0700 (PDT)
Reply-To: mgix@wti.com
Return-Receipt-To: mgix@wti.com
Status: RO

subscribe Emmanuel Mogenet mgix@wti.com




From gerold@ise.fhg.de Wed Jul 19 06:46:17 1995
Return-Path: <gerold@ise.fhg.de>
From: gerold@ise.fhg.de
Subject: forward ratracer
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 15:24:07 +0100 (MESZ)
Status: RO

Dear radiance users!

I guess we are not the only ones who want to calculate BRTF values for
daylighting elements that are available on the market
RADIANCE is not the right tool for this job, and we are looking for 
a forward raytracer.

Therefore the question, does anybody know about a forward raytracing
software that is able to handle 3-D geometries, reflection, transmission,
total reflection and diffraction? It would be an added plus if it were
available on the network? 

I scanned through the digest and haven't found any useful information
besides the fact that nobody seems to know about software like this on the
network.

Does anybody have any ideas?


Thanks for your help!


-- 
Gerold Furler            MAIL: Fraunhofer Institute for Solar Energy Systems
                               Oltmannsstr. 5, 79100 Freiburg, Germany
                         PHONE: +49 (761) 4588 308  FAX: +49 (761) 4588 100
                         EMAIL: gerold@ise.fhg.de

From Chandan.Haldar@blr.sni.de Wed Jul 19 07:16:58 1995
Return-Path: <Chandan.Haldar@blr.sni.de>
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 95 19:24:36+050
From: Chandan.Haldar@blr.sni.de (Dr. Chandan Haldar)
To: gerold@ise.fhg.de
Cc: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re: forward ratracer
Status: RO

You might like to look at rayshade (princeton.edu:/pub/Graphics) ?

- Chandan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Chandan Haldar
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Siemens Information Systems Limited
Real Time Systems Division
29 Infantry Road, Bangalore 560 001, India.
Phone:    +91 80 551 1012                       Fax:      +91 80 551 1214
Internet: Chandan.Haldar@blr.sni.de
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

From borel@sensor2.LANL.GOV Wed Jul 19 08:03:59 1995
Return-Path: <borel@sensor2.LANL.GOV>
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 08:43:54 +0700
From: borel@sensor2.LANL.GOV (Christoph Borel)
To: gerold@ise.fhg.de, radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re: forward ratracer
Cc: borel@sensor2.LANL.GOV
Status: RO

Dear Gerold :

We are doing some BRDF calculations using a combined radiosity and raytracing
approach. The best code however that I have seen (and gotten a beta release)
is by Yves Govaerts from JRC in Italy. He has taken the syntax from rayshade
and written a Monte Carlo raytracer which is probably what you want. Here is
his e-mail :

yves.govaerts@cen.jrc.it

Here is the title and abstract of a talk he gave recently at LANL :

Title: Modeling the scattering of light in three-dimensional canopies

Author: Yves Govaerts
        European Commission, Joint Research Center
        Institute for Remote Sensing Applications
        
Abstract:

Extracting quantitative information from remote sensing data requires 
analytical tools such as canopy reflectance models to interpret radiative
measurements in terms of the quantities of interest. A new model
(Raytran) of radiation transfer in complex three-dimensional media, taking
advantage of the latest ray tracing computer graphics techniques, has been
developped to study the transfer of solar radiation in terrestrial 
environments over a variety of spatial scales. This model is used as a 
"virtual laboratory", to generate reflectances and absorption profiles
of complex targets, where all geometrical and physical quantities can be
controlled explicitly. The accuracy of this model has been established by
comparison with other Monte Carlo models and with laboratory measurements.
The purpose of the seminar is to illustrate potential applications of this
model at different spatial scales.

I hope that helps you

Chris
*==========================================================================*
* Christoph C. Borel, Nonproliferation and International Security Division *
* Astrophysics and Radiation Measurements Group, NIS-2, MS C323,           * 
* Los Alamos National Laboratory                                           *
* Los Alamos, NM 87545, USA, (505)-667-8972 FAX (505)-667-3815             *
* E-mail : borel@sensor2.lanl.gov or ccb@lanl.gov or cborel@lanl.gov       *
*==========================================================================*


From gregg1@paad1.mdx.ac.uk Tue Jul 25 05:15:26 1995
Return-Path: <gregg1@paad1.mdx.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 12:11:59 GMT
Reply-To: gregg1@mdx.ac.uk
From: gregg1@paad1.mdx.ac.uk
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re:  building radiance
X-Vms-To: SMTP%"greg@hobbes.lbl.gov"
Status: R

Greg,

I suppose I'm not on the discussion list because I haven't been
able to use Radiance yet because I haven't built it for VMS ...

So, yes please add my name to the Radiance discussion list.

Thanks,

Gregg Moore
Middlesex University

From greg Tue Jul 25 11:51:00 1995
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 11:34:13 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: radiance-discuss
Subject: Radiance under VMS
Status: R

Here is a question from a VMS user who is trying to build Radiance under
that operating system.  Can anyone offer any suggestions?

------
>From gregg1@paad1.mdx.ac.uk Fri Jul 21 04:36:34 1995
Return-Path: <gregg1@paad1.mdx.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 11:34:55 GMT
Reply-To: gregg1@mdx.ac.uk
From: gregg1@paad1.mdx.ac.uk
To: GJWard@lbl.gov
Subject: building radiance
X-Vms-To: SMTP%"GJWard@lbl.gov"
Status: RO

Greg,

Do you know of anyone who has built Radiance for VMS?

I've started to translate the csh script files into VMS command
files, but this is not a trivial task ...

Thanks,

Gregg Moore
Middlesex University, England


From vinberg@cc.helsinki.fi Wed Jul 26 00:13:38 1995
Return-Path: <vinberg@cc.helsinki.fi>
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 09:43:07 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Olli Vinberg <vinberg@cc.helsinki.fi>
To: "Gregory J. Ward" <greg@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Cc: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re: Radiance under VMS
Status: R

On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Gregory J. Ward wrote:

> I've started to translate the csh script files into VMS command
> files, but this is not a trivial task ...

If the csh-scripts are the hardest part, try getting tcsh for that
vms-machine. It's supposed to compile on a vms and then you might
be able to use those scripts without major modifications.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Olli Vinberg                \  Our OS who art in CPU, UNIX be thy name.
vinberg@cc.helsinki.fi        \  Thy programs run, thy syscalls done,
http://www.helsinki.fi/~vinberg \  in kernel as it is in user!



From burr@stobart.coryphaeus.com Sat Jul 29 12:15:12 1995
Return-Path: <burr@stobart.coryphaeus.com>
From: "Tim Burr" <burr@stobart.coryphaeus.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:43:57 -0700
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Glow and Illum Light Sources
Status: RO

I'm trying to understand the need for the illum and glow
light sources.  Can't these same effects be created by
simply defining the correct primary light sources and
the appropriate material characteristics on all the geometry?
Are the glow and illum sources used as just quick and
dirty methods for getting approximately the same effects?

Tim

-- 
Timothy Burr               | "Essence is that about a thing that makes 
Coryphaeus Software, Inc.  |  that thing what it is."  
burr@cory.coryphaeus.com   |    - existentialist food for thought -

From greg Sat Jul 29 13:19:05 1995
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 95 13:03:36 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: burr@stobart.coryphaeus.com, radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re:  Glow and Illum Light Sources
Status: R

Technically, there is no real need for the illum and glow types in
Radiance.  You can do everything with the light type alone, but not
as efficiently.  Also, there are some sources for which the light type
simply won't work properly, but the glow type will.  Perhaps it would help
if I were to summarize the difference between the various light types:

light		- basic type, causes surfaces to be entered into the
			light source list and be tested for shadow during
			the direct calculation.

spotlight	- same as light except with limit on radiated cone, which
			improves efficiency by providing an extra test to
			preclude unnecessary shadow tests.

glow		- light with limit on distance for which it will behave as
			a source for shadow testing.  If this limit is zero,
			or the surface is the "source" type (infinitely
			distant), the emission will still be included in
			the indirect calculation.  If the limit is negative,
			the contribution will be ignored.

illum		- pseudo light material, used for surfaces that are not the
			actual radiators but are instead diffusing relayers
			or portholes through which significant radiation
			passes.  Surfaces thus defined will participate as
			sources in the direct calculation, but will revert
			to their original form when viewed directly or
			indirectly.  This is a very important optimization
			for reducing calculation time and improving accuracy,
			without which most daylighted interiors would
			never work in Radiance.

The direct calculation is one of the most complicated and sophisticated
parts of Radiance (especially the virtual light source calculation, which
I won't get into here).  It makes using the software significantly more
challenging, but without it, the results would not look nearly as good.

-Greg

From stuart.lewis@arch.gatech.edu Mon Jul 31 06:25:26 1995
Return-Path: <stuart.lewis@arch.gatech.edu>
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 09:02:48 -0400
To: Olli Vinberg <vinberg@cc.helsinki.fi>
From: stuart.lewis@arch.gatech.edu (Stuart Lewis)
Subject: Re: Radiance under VMS
Cc: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Status: R

>> I've started to translate the csh script files into VMS command
>> files, but this is not a trivial task ...
>
>If the csh-scripts are the hardest part, try getting tcsh for that
>vms-machine. It's supposed to compile on a vms and then you might
>be able to use those scripts without major modifications.
>

I've used tcsh on LINUX successfully for about half a year without any
problems with Radiance. As I recall from the tcsh docs, it should be fully
compatible with csh scripts.

Sorry about the lag in my reply.

Stuart Lewis,
Georgia Tech


From frankkim@antoniades.lcs.mit.edu Sun Jul 30 18:32:20 1995
Return-Path: <frankkim@antoniades.lcs.mit.edu>
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 21:12:28 -0400
From: Frank Kim <frankkim@antoniades.lcs.mit.edu>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: DXF and OpenInventor and Radiance
Status: RO

Hi,

I am beginning work on converting DXF files to Radiance files.  First,
is there already a convertor to do this?  

Second, I have a converter for DXF to OpenInventor.  Once I get the
OpenInventor file I plan on using an OpenInventor program to "fly
around" the scene geometry and by clicking on objects, set material
properties, and also allow interactive placement and movement of lights.
Is there already a program that does or has anyone started working on
such a thing?

Third, after editing the scene geometry using an OpenInventor program I would
create a new OpenInventor scene geometry file.  Is there a program for
converting OpenInventor files to Radiance files?

Thanks for any help,
Frank Kim

From chas@dnai.com Mon Jul 31 12:56:30 1995
Return-Path: <chas@dnai.com>
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 12:18:09 -0800
To: Frank Kim <frankkim@antoniades.lcs.mit.edu>
From: chas@hobbes.lbl.gov (Charles Ehrlich)
Subject: Re: DXF and OpenInventor and Radiance
Cc: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Status: RO

First, there is a translator included in the Radiance distribution that will
convert some entity types in DXF files to Radiance.  I have not used it and
can not vouch for its completeness or seaworthiness.  I prefer to import my
DXF files into AutoCAD and use a program called Radout to export the data.
Radout used to be available through arch.mit.edu, but I have not heard from
its author, Philip Thompson, for quite some time.  Another utility on the
hobbes ftp server is torad, an autolisp utility which does a good job of
exporting AutoCAD stuff, but is VERY slow.  I have ported RADOUT to DOS
and Windows if you'd like to obtain them from me. (chas@innernet.com)

Second, there are a few individuals including Mike Donn at the University
of Wellington in New Zeland (mdonn@vuw.ac.nc) who have been working on porting
ddrad, (again, an AutoCAD utility) to DOS/Windows.  They have also added a few
routines for placing materials, as far as I know.  Other than that, see below.

Third, see below.

-Chas  chas@hobbes.lbl.gov



=====
My best referral follows:

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 11:20:26 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
Message-Id: <9503091920.AA24606@hobbes.lbl.gov>
To: radiance-discuss
Subject: Radiance mail from Stephen Benson
Status: RO

Here are some questions from Stephen Benson, who is one of many people who
has trouble with my silly mail server not accepting connections for the
radiance-discuss alias.  (Those who are lucky enough to have their mail
accepted are also rewarded by many bounced mails from bad addresses.  Ah,
the joys of modern life!)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm investigating ways of bringing models from other popular RTs into Radiance
(.nff looks like a good bet -- but I don't know much about it). There's a suite
of tools for RTrace/LightR on asterix.inescn.pt [192.35.246.17] that look
interesting):

>Here goes a short description of current converters from
>CAD/molecular/chemistry packages to the SCN format.
>
>The package programs are related as below (those marked with * have been
>modified)
>
>              irit2scn
>     IRIT ----------------|
>                          |               NFF (nffclean, nffp2pp)
>               sol2scn   |                |
> ACAD11/12 ---------------|                | nff2sff
>                          |                |
>               mol2scn   v    scn2sff*    v    rtrace*
>   ALCHEMY  -----------> SCN -----------> SFF ----------> PIC or PPM
>                         ^      cpp       ^                   |
>               pdb2scn   |                |                picmix
>     PDB -----------------|                |                picblend
>                         |                |                ppmmix
>              chem2scn   |          SPD generators         ppmblend
>   CHEMICAL --------------|             balls
>                          |             rings
>                3ds2scn   |             tetra
>  3D STUDIO --------------|             teapot
>                          |             ...
>                iv2scn    |
> IRIS Inventor -----------|
>                          |
>                obj2scn   |
>   Wavefront -------------|
>                          |
>                          |
>   LightR       lightr*   |
> (radiosity) -------------|
>
>
>Docs/sff*.ps.gz        | SFF spec in Postscript (GZIP)
>----------------+----------------------------------------------------------
>Docs/scn*.ps.gz        | SCN spec in Postscript (GZIP)
>----------------+----------------------------------------------------------
>nff.tar.Z      | the Eric Haines scene generators (NFF scenes)
>               |  Version 3.3 (= SPDup33b.tar.Z)
>----------------+----------------------------------------------------------
>nffutils.tar.Z | some programs for converting to NFF or to filter
>               |  NFF scenes with some problems...
>----------------+----------------------------------------------------------
>sff.tar.Z      | a converter from NFF to SFF (the input format of
>               |  the ray-tracer) (= nff2sff.tar.Z)
>--------------
Does anyone have any experience along these lines? Is it worth pursuing? And
any comments on the RTrace/LightR combination (which I'm yet to try).

--
: stephen benson  :   :   :   :   :   :   :   :  stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net



From jon@esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Aug  4 16:06:35 1995
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 09:33:19 BST
From: jon@esru.strath.ac.uk (jon)
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov, frankkim@antoniades.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Moving on from DXF...
Status: R


In response to Frank Kim's question and the general topic of exchanging
information between CAD and Radiance:

We have an indirect converter from DXF to Radiance by way of the esp-r
thermal simulation program which is able to pass a substantially
attributed problem to radiance.  Esp-r and Radiance share a very
similar product model so conversion between these applications is
straightforward.

Esp provides the attribution facilities in terms of the topology of the
problem (what is inside, outside), names for entities and their
composition (surface properties, opaque/transparent/optical properties)
which simulation requires and which DXF (pathetic old thing that it is)
struggles with. Passing polygons is in many cases the simple part of
the composition of a problem for simulation applications - it is the
attribution which we get stuck writing code to support - just the sort
of thing that CAD packages have not addressed very well.

Perhaps a syntax other than DXF would be something to consider. The
problem of passing information has not been easy to solve even though
there have been several groups working on this.  For example, the
European Union is just wrapping up the COMBINE programme (Computer
Models for the Building Industry in Europe) which used STEP files for
exchange of data between simulation applications and CAD. Such formats
might be a way ahead, certainly the linking of semantics and data
reduces the ambiguity which is problematic as infomation is being
passed around from tool to tool.

Greg Wards's proposal for a descriptive format was perhaps a result of
the frustrations with currently available syntax - now if we
could just get the CAD firms to deal with the depth of information
tools like radiance require...

-Jon Hand
Energy Systems Research Unit
University of Strathclyde
Glasgow SCOTLAND


From moeck@falcon.cc.ukans.edu Tue Aug  8 10:29:16 1995
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 1995 12:28:15 -0500
From: Martin Moeck <moeck@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>
Apparently-To: gjward@lbl.gov
To: gjward@lbl.gov
Status: R

Hi Greg,
coulfd you please include me in the radiance discussion group under mmoeck@ukans.edu? 
Take care,

Martin

From tristow@hydra Mon Aug 14 15:09:51 1995
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 17:07:40 +0600
From: tristow@hydra (Troy Ristow)
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Discussion Group
Status: R


  Please subscribe me to the discussion group.


     Thank you,
 Troy Ristow  --  tristow@zgs.com


From iedsp@agt.gmeds.com Tue Aug 15 06:36:38 1995
From: iedsp@agt.gmeds.com (David S. Pesetsky (317)-230-6088 AGT/8880)
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 08:32:15 EST
To: radiance-discuss@theo.lbl.gov
Subject: Trad needs to be updates!
Status: RO

I just downloaded Tcl7.4 and Tk4.0. I'm on an IBM RISC6000 running AIX3.2 and
X11R5. I just typed trad (from Radiance version 2.5), and it complained about 

tk_listboxSingleSelect

I read in the Tk README that this function no longer exists...several other changes 
to Tcl/Tk have been made since trad was written.

Dave
 

From cloister@hhhh.org Tue Aug 15 07:29:04 1995
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 07:27:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: cloister bell <cloister@hhhh.org>
To: radiance-discuss@theo.lbl.gov
Subject: Re: Trad needs to be updates!
Status: RO

> I just downloaded Tcl7.4 and Tk4.0. I'm on an IBM RISC6000 running AIX3.2 and
> X11R5. I just typed trad (from Radiance version 2.5), and it complained about 
> 
> tk_listboxSingleSelect
> 
> I read in the Tk README that this function no longer exists...several other changes 
> to Tcl/Tk have been made since trad was written.

this is a tk3.6 to tk4.0 difference.  trad needs to be updated to tk4.0.  
check out the tk4.0 porting guide, which you ought to have gotten with 
tk4.0; it has a very nice list of what's different and what to do about 
it.  if you manage to get it ported quick, i'm sure greg will be pleased 
not to have to do it himself...

From iedsp@agt.gmeds.com Tue Aug 15 08:43:57 1995
From: iedsp@agt.gmeds.com (David S. Pesetsky (317)-230-6088 AGT/8880)
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 10:39:32 EST
To: cloister@hhhh.org
Subject: Re: Trad needs to be updates!
Cc: radiance-discuss@theo.lbl.gov
Status: RO

> > I just downloaded Tcl7.4 and Tk4.0. I'm on an IBM RISC6000 running AIX3.2 and
> > X11R5. I just typed trad (from Radiance version 2.5), and it complained about 
> > 
> > tk_listboxSingleSelect
> > 
> > I read in the Tk README that this function no longer exists...several other changes 
> > to Tcl/Tk have been made since trad was written.
> 
> this is a tk3.6 to tk4.0 difference.  trad needs to be updated to tk4.0.  
> check out the tk4.0 porting guide, which you ought to have gotten with 
> tk4.0; it has a very nice list of what's different and what to do about 
> it.  if you manage to get it ported quick, i'm sure greg will be pleased 
> not to have to do it himself...
> 

I don't do porting...just wanted Greg to be aware of the differences.

Dave

From greg Tue Aug 15 11:56:02 1995
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 11:55:55 PDT
From: greg (Greg Ward)
To: cloister@hhhh.org, iedsp@agt.gmeds.com
Subject: Re: Trad needs to be updates!
Cc: radiance-discuss@theo.lbl.gov
Status: R

I am now officially taking volunteers for whoever wants to go through 2000+
lines of Tcl/Tk code to update it for version 3.6.  I've taken a quick crack
at it, and already come across at least 4 incompatibilities not mentioned
among the 45 problems alluded to in the 3.6 -> 4.0 porting guide.

This looks to me like a hopeless situation, and my tendency is just to tell
everyone to compile Tk3.6 if they want to use trad.

-Greg

From jgronval@snakemail.hut.fi Wed Aug 16 00:56:41 1995
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 10:46:05 +0300 (EET DST)
From: "+(Pluus)" <jgronval@snakemail.hut.fi>
To: radiance-discuss@theo.lbl.gov
Subject: Need help with writing IESNA95 luminaires
Status: R


Hello!

In Finland for some reason nobody wants to support American lighting 
standards. Nonetheless I would want to write my own IES files 
using existing data. Problem is, I don't know what the fields between
"TILT" and the line where the angles start mean.(eg. 2 2900 1.0 1 1 0.85 
4.04 .292 1.0 1.0 63.7 for the APEX 55) 
Moreover what units are used to describe the intensities, candelas? 

I've contacted IESNA in New York and asked them to 
send me the Handbook but it seems its going to take ages before it 
gets here. Can these specifications be found on the net somewhere?
 
I would very much appreciate any information about this stuff.    

John


From gm@hl-technik.de Thu Aug 17 11:06:55 1995
From: "Georg Mischler" <gm@hl-technik.de>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 11:19:00 +065534 (MESZ)
Subject: Re: Need help with writing IESNA95 luminaires
X-Gateway: iGate, (WP Office) vers 4.04k - 1154
Status: RO

John wrote:

> In Finland for some reason nobody wants to support American
lighting 
> standards. Nonetheless I would want to write my own IES files 

Strange people there in finland, aren't they? ;)

What kind of standard *is* there supported in scandinavia?
In the german speaking part of euorpe it is EULUMDAT, and every
manufacturer (well, allmost) is able to deliver the data in that
format.
If the same is true for finland, *and* if you are modelling with
autocad, then I could provide you a small lisp program doing the
connversion from EULUMDAT to radiance data.

As a general info to all:

You probably allready know that Philip Thompson at MIT has ported my
original autocad to radiance translator torad from autolisp to ads-C,
naming the result radout. You might also have heard about the user
interface ddrad, that Veronika Summerauer at ETH has written for
torad (and radiance).
I am currently pondering to adapt this interface to radout, so you
will get the speed of a compiled translation unit, and the
flexibility
and functional power of a lisp driven user interface.

The features of ddrad allready include:
- fully integrated graphical user interface for exporting data to
  radiance.
- material editor.
- rendering parameters control (generating rif file).
- running radiance from within autocad (interactive preview).
- material library support.

This is currently limited to unix users and adapted specially
to the needs of the CAAD lab at ETH.

A final version on top of radout might feature:
- more speed.
- material preview.
- better control of rendering parameters (override of rad output).
- support of several sky models (gensky, gendaylit, etc).
- conversion of luminaires data (IES, EULUMDAT, etc).
- creation of instances from blocks.
- smoothed curved surfaces.
- maybe even networking capabilities (run radiance on remote unix
host
  from your acad platform, sockets library and X-server required).

Don't expect to to see these things the next day though. This is a
long
term project, which most contributers probably will do aside their
other work, adding features when they come in handy or when they are
needed for some specific project.

It will depend very much on the contributions from the radiance user
community how soon there will be a more or less final result.
I am currently discussing this with Chas Ehrlich (who has sponsored
the
dos port of radout) and Veronika. I also tried to contact Philip
Thompson and Mike Donn (who made some enhancements to radout), but
haven't got responce from them yet - maybe I should wait till the
summer
break (or winter break in nz) is over.

If there is anybody out there, who has either more ideas (good) or
some
spare time and knoweledge to share (better), let me know.

Georg Mischler    u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de
-------------------------------------------------

From pd.bourke@auckland.ac.nz Thu Aug 17 12:22:24 1995
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 07:13:16 +1200 (NZT)
From: Paul David Bourke <pd.bourke@auckland.ac.nz>
Subject: quicktime VR
To: radiance-discuss@theo.lbl.gov
Status: RO

Has anyone else produced any QuickTime-VR interactive environments using
Radiance rendering? I have put together some scripts which along with the
Apple QT-VR authoring tools can create such 3D environments. I'm working
at the moment on creating multinode environments. If anyone is interested
or even have a model they would like converted into a QT-VR system you can
contact me. The scripts and procedure will eventually be on my WEB site.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Bourke       Computer Manager

Address Work      School of Architecture, Property, Planning
                  The University of Auckland
                  Private Bag 92019, Auckland, New Zealand
        Email     pd.bourke@auckland.ac.nz
        Phone     +64 -9 373 7599 x7367
        Fax:      +64 -9 373 7410
FTP               ftphost.auckland.ac.nz   in   pub/architec 
WWW               http://www.auckland.ac.nz/arch/pdbourke/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

From m.carr@auckland.ac.nz Sun Aug 20 18:55:38 1995
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 13:49:58 +1200 (NZT)
From: Matiu Carr <m.carr@auckland.ac.nz>
Subject: IES decsriptions
To: radiance-discuss@theo.lbl.gov (radiance discussion)
Status: RO

Hi

On the off chance it has been answered in private email,
can anyone out there provide information (or pointers to
information) regarding the IES luminaire descriptions?

Thanks.

                                               Mat
    ----------------------------------------------
    Matiu Carr               m.carr@auckland.ac.nz
  
    University of Auckland
    http://archpropplan.auckland.ac.nz/People/Mat/
    ----------------------------------------------

From @kate.ibmpcug.co.uk:stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net Sun Aug 20 02:25:02 1995
Reply-To: Stephen Benson <stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net>
To: gm@hl-technik.de
Cc: radiance-discuss@theo.lbl.gov
Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 08:27:05
Subject: Re: Need help with writing IESNA95 luminaires
From: Stephen Benson <stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net>
Status: RO

>You probably allready know that Philip Thompson at MIT has ported my
>original autocad to radiance translator torad from autolisp to ads-C,
>naming the result radout. You might also have heard about the user
>interface ddrad, that Veronika Summerauer at ETH has written for
>torad (and radiance).
>I am currently pondering to adapt this interface to radout, so you
>will get the speed of a compiled translation unit, and the
>flexibility
>and functional power of a lisp driven user interface.
>
>The features of ddrad allready include:
>- fully integrated graphical user interface for exporting data to
>  radiance.
>- material editor.
>- rendering parameters control (generating rif file).
>- running radiance from within autocad (interactive preview).
>- material library support.
>
>This is currently limited to unix users and adapted specially
>to the needs of the CAAD lab at ETH.
>

Sounds interesting; is it available on a site somewhere?

--
: stephen benson  :   :   :   :   :   :   :   :  stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net


From greg Thu Aug 24 09:26:01 1995
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 95 09:25:57 PDT
From: greg (Greg Ward)
To: radiance-discuss
Subject: PLEASE STOP!
Status: RO

Please stop sending unsubscribe messages to radiance-discuss!!!

This gets forwarded to EVERYONE on the mailing list, not just to the
maintainer (me).  As a result, you end up making everyone want to
unsubscribe because of the noise, and I can hardly blame them.  I've
disabled the list for a day or two until this dies down.

If you have unsubscribe requests to make, send them to
radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov, not radiance-discuss!  You should also say
which list you wish to subscribe or unsubscribe, as there are two, a moderated
announcement and digest list, which is somewhat immune from this sort of
nonsense, and an unmoderated digest list, which includes the occassional
bit of noise from careless users.

-Greg

From tias@ifib.uni-karlsruhe.de Thu Aug 24 08:20:04 1995
From: Mathias Wambsganss <tias@ifib.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 16:44:46 +0200
Original-Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.95)
Pp-Warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line
Original-Received: by 
                   NeXT Mailer (1.95)
Pp-Warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line
To: radiance-discuss@theo.lbl.gov
Subject: gensky
Cc: tias@ifib.uni-karlsruhe.de
Status: RO

Hi
I have a question to sky models produced with gensky. If I use the  
option -c for an CIE overcast sky and calculate the illuminace, the  
value outside of my building is nearly 8800 lx.
A check of this value with other programs (LuMagic, LumenMicro or  
with a handish calculation like DIN 5034 (German norm book)) brings  
me some trouble. For the same day at the same place are the values  
between 11500lx and 12000lx (also for an overcast sky).
If I use the option -u (uniform sky) to produce a sky.rad file and  
calculate the illuminace outside the building, I got a value nearly  
the same like the other programs.
i use the PC-Version of radiance.
So my question is: Has anyone an idea what happens and is this maybe  
a proplem of the PC-Version??
Thanks a lot in front!


Mathias Wambsganss
Universitaet Karlsruhe Germany
Lehrbereich Technischer Ausbau
Englerstr. 7
76128 Karlsruhe
FON 0721 6083769
FAX 0721 6086092
Email tias@ifib.uni-karlsruhe.de

From greg Thu Aug 24 09:06:32 1995
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 95 09:06:31 PDT
From: greg (Greg Ward)
To: tias@ifib.uni-karlsruhe.de
Subject: Re:  gensky
Status: RO

Hi Mathias,

The numbers to use for average zenith luminance are never agreed upon.  I'm
surprised that your other calculations are in such close agreement.  If you
want a reliable absolute value for ANY sky condition, you must specify the
zenith radiance either directly with the -b option or indirectly via the
-B option of gensky.  This is not a fault of the PC version, just a difference
in the default quantity used by various programs.

-Greg

P.S.  There is usually data available for the mean irradiance or illuminance
(use the conversion factor 179 lumens/watt to go between the two) in weather
almanacs and the like.

From cbrown@thor.lostnet.org Thu Aug 24 10:47:28 1995
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 17:47:32 GMT
From: "Christopher E. Brown" <cbrown@thor.lostnet.org>
To: radiance-request@theo.lbl.gov
Subject: UNSCRIBE
Status: RO


Please unsubscribe me from radiance-discuss


From rcl@scs.leeds.ac.uk Fri Aug 25 04:52:23 1995
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 12:25:07 +0100 (BST)
From: R C Love <rcl@scs.leeds.ac.uk>
Subject: Leaking light
To: radiance-discuss@theo.lbl.gov
Status: RO

I recently turned off all the light sources in what used to be an 
external view of a daylit building (I wanted to model it floodlit at 
night). When I ran rview (or rpict) it correctly identified that there 
were no light sources but the resulting image shows the building to be 
almost self illuminating. Where surfaces face each other the light is 
quite significant.

Thinking that this was my mistake (a rogue light source in the scene 
files) I used the following simple scene and rad file...

###############################################
# test.rif

scene= test.scene
OCTREE= test.oct
PICTURE= test

EXPOSURE= 0.0358

VARIABILITY= M
QUALITY= M
DETAIL= M
INDIRECT= 1

view= -vtv -vp 5 -10 0.5 -vd 0 1 0 -vu 0 0 1 -vh 29.0286 -vv 29.0286 -vo 
0 -va 0 -vs 0 -vl 0
###############################################

###############################################
# Test.rad

void plastic stone
0
0
5 0.45 0.4 0.3 0.0 0.2

!genbox stone step_1 5.6 1.2 0.15           | xform -t 2.2 0.0 0.0
!genbox stone step_2 5.6 1.2 0.15           | xform -t 2.2 0.3 0.15
!genbox stone step_3 5.6 1.2 0.15           | xform -t 2.2 0.6 0.30
!genbox stone step_4 5.6 1.2 0.15           | xform -t 2.2 0.9 0.45
###############################################

I've used the above on both Radiance V2.5 and V2.4 on a Linux box and an 
SGI Challenge machine (R8000's under Irix6) and the stone steps are 
clearly visible.

Can anybody tell me why I can see the steps when there is no light in the 
environment?

Many thanks
Rob Love

School of Computer Studies
Universtity of Leeds
Leeds, UK

From greg Fri Aug 25 09:41:01 1995
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 95 09:41:00 PDT
From: greg (Greg Ward)
To: rcl@scs.leeds.ac.uk
Subject: Re:  Leaking light
Status: RO

Hi Rob,

This didn't get sent to radiance-discuss because the list is still disabled,
but that's OK because I can answer your question pretty easily.

The problem is that rad sets the ambient value based on the EXPOSURE setting
in the .rif file, and your setting of 0.0358 results in a -av setting of
14 14 14.  Any non-zero setting in a scene without sky or light sources
will make the surfaces appear to glow.  You need to change your exposure
setting to something more reasonable for a nighttime scene in order to
get the right results.

Hope this clears things up.
-Greg

From Come007@uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu Fri Sep  1 11:08:27 1995
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 95 11:08:25 PDT
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: Come007@uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu (Me)
Subject: Radiance Discussion List
Status: RO

Please subscribe me to the list
Thanks



From slyhorse@crl.com Mon Sep 25 16:40:06 1995
Return-Path: <slyhorse@crl.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 16:06:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: slyhorse <slyhorse@crl.com>
To: "Gregory J. Ward" <greg@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: subscribe to which list?
Status: RO


Subscribe to moderated announcement and digest mailing list

See my web page <url= http://www.crl.com/~slyhorse/home9-1.htm>


From greg Tue Sep 26 09:32:38 1995
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 09:11:36 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: radiance-discuss
Subject: PostScript question
Status: RO

Here is a question about the output of ra_ps, asked by Jan Diepens.  Since
I wrote this program, it's obviously my fault, but I don't know enough about
standard PostScript comments to correct it without help, so please offer
some suggestions or references if you have them.  Thanks.

-Greg

----------------------
>From Jan Diepens <jadi@fago.bwk.tue.nl>:

I'm trying to print the radiance pictures on a Hp 4M + postscript
printer using the print option of TRAD. The result is 2 nice grayscale
pictures and a lot of pages with the error message:

"!! This job is recovered from page 2 !! (Note: There may be a few
pages duplicated)".

Using TRAD and sending the print job to a QMS 810 postscript printer
does not give any problem.

If I display the postscript file generated by TRAD (ra_ps) with SUN's
pageview I get the error message:

"this file doesn't use the Adobe PostScript Structuring Comments
correctly".

Is this a known problem and has it already been solved? if not will
somebody help me to solve it?, I am not a postscript expert and can use
all help.  I am using Radiance release 2.5 compiled and running on a
SUN SPARCstation 10 with the OS "Solaris 2.4."

From kdoug@ozemail.com.au Fri Sep 29 01:08:54 1995
Return-Path: <kdoug@ozemail.com.au>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 18:08:06 +1000
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: kdoug@ozemail.com.au
Subject: subscription
Status: RO

This is my request for subscription to the Radiance discussion mailing list


From greg Mon Oct  2 15:01:16 1995
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 95 15:00:32 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: kdoug@ozemail.com.au
Subject: Re:  Optical Light Film
Cc: lbeltran
Status: RO

Hi Ken,

I'm sorry to take so long to get back to you.  I forwarded your e-mail to
a woman in our group (Liliana Beltran) who has had some experience with
these types of material (including the one you mentioned in particular).
She also has some experience using Radiance, and I thought she might have
modeled this before.  Just speaking with her now, it seems that she hasn't,
and cited the general lack of information from the manufacturer (3M)
regarding the material's properties.

I have added your e-mail address to both the Radiance announcement/digest
list and the discussion list.  If you would like to post your question
to radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov, it should go through to the list.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
-Greg

From novebaru@inet.uni-c.dk Fri Oct 20 04:39:06 1995
Return-Path: <novebaru@inet.uni-c.dk>
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 12:13:17 +0200 (METDST)
From: Shaul Baruch <novebaru@inet.uni-c.dk>
Subject: 3D-Studio
To: Radiance-discuss <radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Status: RO

Hallo all Radiance funs,

I am trying to convert 3D drawings created by 3D-Studio to Radiance
format.
I would like to hear from people that have tried it before.
Is there a new/old good way to do such conversion.

I am working with a DOS version of Radiance, and I do not seem to have 
the Torad conversion program. (How good does it work? and what other 
possibilities are there?)



Best regards

Shaul Baruch

From chas@innernet.com Wed Oct 25 00:07:51 1995
Return-Path: <chas@innernet.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 23:43:10 -0700
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: chas@innernet.com (Charles Ehrlich)
Subject: Re: 3D-Studio
Status: RO

>>Shaul Baruch wrote:
>>I am trying to convert 3D drawings created by 3D-Studio to Radiance
>>format.
>>I would like to hear from people that have tried it before.
>>Is there a new/old good way to do such conversion.
>>
>>I am working with a DOS version of Radiance, and I do not seem to have
>>the Torad conversion program. (How good does it work? and what other
>>possibilities are there?)

A DOS/Windows version of the torad program (called radout) is available
from me for an investment recovery fee of $50.00.  It is based on a
Unix version of the radout program for Unix AutoCAD.  My programmer
enhanced the export facilities such that it creates Radiance polygons
from closed 3D PLINES.  It was specifically written to handle some of
the strange data one gets from programs like 3D Studio.  Sorry.  It
does not yet handle light sources, cameras or any of the other fancy
objects.  The version I offer runs under DOS or Windows AutoCAD R12.
If there is enough interest, I will bring it up to date with R13 and
pay for the addition of more functionality.

Point your WWW browser at: http://www.innernet.com/radiance/home.html
for more information.

-Chas

+-------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Ehrlich               |  Radiance Consulting & Training for     |
| Space & Light                 |  Lighting  & Daylighting Analysis       |
| radiance@innernet.com         |  Energy Efficiency and Visual Comfort   |
| 842 Folsom St. #197           |  Available: AutoCAD to Radiance xlator  |
| San Francisco, CA 94107  USA  |  For more information check out URL:    |
| 415 905-4438 24hr messages    |  http://innernet.com/radiance/home.html |
+-------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+



From greg Mon Oct 30 09:30:28 1995
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 95 09:12:47 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: radiance-discuss
Subject: e-mail from Erwin Zierler for Radiance discussion group
Status: RO

[I am forwarding this for Erwin, since his mailer doesn't like my mailer.]

> 
> Hallo all Radiance funs,

Hi Shaul!
> 
> I am trying to convert 3D drawings created by 3D-Studio to Radiance
> format.
> I would like to hear from people that have tried it before.
> Is there a new/old good way to do such conversion.

As far as I know 3DS has an option to write out DXF (not sure though)
>From then on you have two ways:
1. use the existing dxf2rad (should be on hobbes)
2. import it into Autocad (if you have it) and use the torad program
   or radout (more below)

If you can get on a machine with Autocad 13 you can import the 3ds files
directly. Then again use the torad utility.
  
> I am working with a DOS version of Radiance, and I do not seem to have 
> the Torad conversion program. (How good does it work? and what other 
> possibilities are there?)

Ohh, the dos version!? I heard about it but didn't know people are really
working with it. Well, as long as it reads the same geometry files like
the Radiance (Unix) distribution there should be no problem.
Regarding torad: it's a AutoLisp program and is only useful if you have
AutoCAD. It takes a AutoCAD database and writes out the Radiance
geometry, materials (all the same), a basic sunlight and groundglow
and you can also choose from a set of views (named views in ACAD)
Check the hobbes server (or mirror site in Swizerland) in /pub/translators
(or similar), there you should find this program (if not I can mail
it to you). Radout is another translator which works also inside AutoCAD
and is basically a C (ADS in this case) port of the torad program.
I have only used it once but the handling and functionality is quite the
same (hope I remember right). Personally I prefer Gerorg Mischler's torad
since I can read the code and modify it according to my needs. 

> 
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Shaul Baruch
> 

Hope this helps a bit....

Erwin

>>> Erwin Zierler  erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at         University of Innsbruck  <<<
>>> WWW:           http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/erwin/                 Austria  <<<


From greg Mon Nov  6 10:43:55 1995
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 10:43:54 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: greg
Subject: Re: Radiance on an Amiga
Status: RO

Does anyone have any experience with the following system configuration,
that they might be able to give this fellow some advice?

------------
>From matt@jackson.apana.org.au Thu Nov  2 23:06:04 1995
Return-Path: <matt@jackson.apana.org.au>
From: Matt Jackson <matt@jackson.apana.org.au>
Subject: Radience Problems
To: GJWard@lbl.gov
Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 03:49:25 +1100 (EST)
Reply-To: jackson@posgate.apana.org.au
Status: R

Hi Greg,
        I have just installed Radience 2.4 from the SIGGRAPH '94 CD and
have a few problems.

I am using an Amiga 3000 running NetBSD1.0 and managed to build everything
with gcc2.7.3 but, when I render anything (includeing the examples and
tutorial)
all I get is a black picture with white objects.

Any help will greatly appreciated.


Matt.

From G.McKennan@mmu.ac.uk Mon Nov 20 06:38:55 1995
Return-Path: <G.McKennan@mmu.ac.uk>
From: GEOFFREY MCKENNAN <G.McKennan@mmu.ac.uk>
Organization:  Manchester Metropolitan University
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date:          Mon, 20 Nov 1995 14:38:39 GMT
Subject:       radiance e-mail
X-Confirm-Reading-To: "GEOFFREY MCKENNAN" <AA9DA31@WASP.MMU.AC.UK>
X-Pmrqc:       1
Return-Receipt-To: "GEOFFREY MCKENNAN" <AA9DA31@WASP.MMU.AC.UK>
Priority: normal
Status: RO

to whom it may concern,

I should like to receive radiance e-mail.  I have been recommended to 
request "subscribe unmoderated".  Could you please send to my e-mail 
address.  Thanks for your help.

Dr G T McKennan

From pluti@axil.sit.fi Mon Nov 27 04:14:53 1995
Return-Path: <pluti@axil.sit.fi>
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 13:45:02 +0200 (EET)
From: John Gronvall <pluti@axil.sit.fi>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Groupingn & Smoothing Pgons?
Status: RO


Hello Everyone

Thank you very much for helping me out with my IES-problem. Now I have 
another one,

At the moment I'm working with a friend on an Autolisp routine that would 
allow conversion of a 2D base-plane drawing of a building into a Radiance 
file. The height for the walls exist only as extended data.
I'm using MGF to describe the main geometry of the scene. For the kinkier 
parts I'm working directly with the .rad file.
The problems occur when trying to describe a cylindrical shaped wall -
I would prefer not to use 'Gensurf' for the wall, instead I'd rather use 
the symmetry of the floor to construct an "extruded" piece of wall. In this
way the wall would be tessalated into rectangles -> no smoothing!


Q: Is there an easy way of "grouping" the polygons into one object so that
 the surface would look smooth.

The only way I can think of is to somehowe use as a material modifier a
bump map and try to come up with a way of interpolating the normals of 
the polygons..????

Any help would be appricated

Your Sincerely from the country where everybody currently is walking
with loads of ice in their beard

John Gronvall


From gm@hl-technik.de Mon Nov 27 07:08:23 1995
Return-Path: <gm@hl-technik.de>
From: "Georg Mischler" <gm@hl-technik.de>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 15:35:00 +100 (MESZ)
Subject: Re: Groupingn & Smoothing Polygons?
X-Gateway: iGate, (WP Office) vers 4.04m - 1082
Status: RO

John Gronvall wrote:

> The problems occur when trying to describe a cylindrical shaped
wall -
> I would prefer not to use 'Gensurf' for the wall, instead I'd
rather use 
> the symmetry of the floor to construct an "extruded" piece of wall.
In this
> way the wall would be tessalated into rectangles -> no smoothing!

> Q: Is there an easy way of "grouping" the polygons into one object
so that
>  the surface would look smooth.

> The only way I can think of is to somehowe use as a material
modifier a
> bump map and try to come up with a way of interpolating the normals
of 
> the polygons..????

Hi John,

What exactly is the problem with gensurf? Its output is exactly the
texfuncs you need, so why reinventing the wheel?
If you stay with walls (ie. extrusion to Z direction) then the
formula
is relatively simple. Let X0, Y0, Z0 be the (lower) center of your
arc,
alpha the opening angle (start to end), a1 the starting angle
relative
to +x and H the extrusion height.
Then you get (please test before using!):

!gensurf some_material curve 'cos((PI*(PI/alpha)*s)+a1)+X0'  \
                             'sin((PI*(PI/alpha)*s)+a1)+Y0'  \
                             '(t*H)+Z0'   \
                             16 1 -s

You can tweak the number of segments (here 16) depending on the
opening
angle to get more accurate upper and lower edges.

I intend to include this functionality into the torad/radout/ddrad
suite
as soon as the ddrad portion is ready for beta testing. Therfore I'd
be
*very* happy myself if anyone could come up with a general solution
to this problem (curves roatated in space) without the need of using
xform and seperate files for every single arc ...
Btw: I hope that this test release of ddrad will be ready early next
year. The basic functionality is allready working together with my
modified copy of radout, but it still needs some more work to become
usefull to someone who has never seen it before.

Sorry John, for abusing your request again for this kind of
advertisement ... you just seem to ask the right questions ;)


hope that helps (and thanks as well for any further ideas)

-Georg


Georg Mischler   \ /   HL-Technik AG, Lichtplanung   T:
+49-89/72406-315
Daylighting &&  - o -  Wolfratshauser  Strasse  56   F:
+49-89/72406-309
&& Simulations   / \   D - 81379 Muenchen, Germany   E:
gm@hl-technik.de

From dbarnard@centcon.com Sun Dec  3 14:22:32 1995
Return-Path: <dbarnard@centcon.com>
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 14:21:29 -0800
From: Doug Barnard <dbarnard@centcon.com>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: (no subject)
X-Url: http://radsite.lbl.gov/radiance/digests_html/v2n7.html
Status: RO

subscribe radiance-discuss

From media@centauro.polito.it Thu Dec  7 04:07:35 1995
Return-Path: <media@centauro.polito.it>
From: caneparo <media@centauro.polito.it>
Subject: subscribe
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 13:01:23 MET
Cc: media@centauro.polito.it
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.30]
Status: RO


Could you please subscribe me to the Radiance discussion group?
Thanks!
Luca Caneparo
Politecnico di Torino
Italy



From geigel@akbar.psc.edu Sun Dec 10 13:14:58 1995
Return-Path: <geigel@akbar.psc.edu>
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 16:14:48 -0500
From: geigel@akbar.psc.edu (Joe Geigel)
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: subscribe
Reply-To: geigel@psc.edu
Status: RO


Hello...

   COuld you please subscribe me to the radiance mailing list...

                                 Thanks,

                                  -- joe geigel
                                     geigel@psc.edu

From M.Curatella@agora.stm.it Sun Dec 24 18:32:27 1995
Return-Path: <M.Curatella@agora.stm.it>
From: M.Curatella@agora.stm.it
To: greg@pink.lbl.gov
Subject: Subscribe Me
Date: Mon,  25 Dec 95 3:24:3 GMT
Status: RO


Greetings Mr. Ward,
I would like to subscribe to the mailing list dedicated to the
RADIANCE package, wich impressed me very much!
 I'm using the Amiga porting of Radiance and I've found some problems
with the emulation of the unix-style shell, needed for the correct
execution of the rendering scripts.

Thanks in advance.

Massimo Curatella

###



From amadeus@bga.com Tue Jan  9 01:03:13 1996
Return-Path: <amadeus@bga.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 03:03:03 -0600 (CST)
From: Thomas Marsh <amadeus@bga.com>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Subscription
Status: RO

Dr. Ward,

I assume this is not a mojordomo account. I would like to subscribe to 
both the moderated and unmoderated mailing lists. If for some reason this 
email has reached the wrong location please do notify me. I am going in 
accordance with the instructions listed in Radiance Digest v2n7.

I am a general raytracing enthusiast and use Radiance in conjunction with 
the rest of my hobbies. I am extremely impressed with your software. 
Perhaps someday I will have some work to display for your Radiance users!

Thank you very much,
Thomas Marsh

/------------------------------------=----------------------------------------\
|   Thomas Marsh, amadeus@bga.com    |   Life would be so much easier if we   |
|    http://www.bga.com/~amadeus     |   could just look at the source code.  |
\------------------------------------=----------------------------------------/


From amadeus@bga.com Wed Jan 10 12:12:39 1996
Return-Path: <amadeus@bga.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 13:43:04 -0600 (CST)
From: Thomas Marsh <amadeus@bga.com>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: [Q] Porous Surfaces
Status: RO

Hello,

I am very new to the Radiance system, so please excuse my ignorance. I 
have attempted to educate myself thus far with the materal at 
http://radsite.lbl.gov/radiance but I have not been able to understand 
many portions. I will explain what I am trying to do.

I would like to create a pumice-like surface. (Pumice is a type of lava 
rock with lots of holes in it.) The obvious solution is to define my 
object and then create a random distribution of small antimatter spheres 
with varying radii. -But that is a very ugly hack. I am trying to find a 
way to do this so that I can apply it to any object.

I would assume this would be easier to do in Radiance than almost any 
other renderer, so perhaps that is why I cannot figure out how to do it.

Thanks for any suggestions!
Thomas

/------------------------------------=----------------------------------------\
|   Thomas Marsh, amadeus@bga.com    |   Life would be so much easier if we   |
|    http://www.bga.com/~amadeus     |   could just look at the source code.  |
\------------------------------------=----------------------------------------/


From carlalex@elessar.engin.umich.edu Mon Jan 15 17:43:24 1996
Return-Path: <carlalex@elessar.engin.umich.edu>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 20:43:10 -0500
From: "Carl A. Adams" <carlalex@engin.umich.edu>
Status: RO

subscribe radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov


From psjana@svf.stuba.sk Fri Jan 19 05:01:38 1996
Return-Path: <psjana@svf.stuba.sk>
From: Milan Janak <psjana@svf.stuba.sk>
Subject: Request to subscribe
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 08:28:02 +0100 (MEZ)
Status: RO

Dear Mr. Gregory Ward,

After some help from Jan Hensen currently
in Korea I would like to ask you to subscribe
myself to the both Radiance discussion lists.

For some time I am back in my home university
in Bratislava, Slovakia. So please you could
unsubscribe my ESRU address milan@esru.strath.ac.uk
or clcv64@strath.ac.uk.

I am currently working on the time variable illuminance
predictions with Radiance. Currently we do not have
UNIX machines here in Slovakia so we are using Radiance
DOS version from the ADELINE package. I would like to
use gendaylit program which is not included in ADELINE.
Could you let me know where I could find source code
for the gendaylit.

With best regards,

Milan Janak
e-mail: psjana@svf.stuba.sk

From visilux@ucl.ac.uk Wed Jan 24 12:31:18 1996
Return-Path: <visilux@ucl.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 20:28:51 +0000
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: visilux@ucl.ac.uk (Mun Yew Chan)
Subject: Subcribe me to Radiance Digest
Status: RO



/?????????????????????????????????????????????/
                Mun Yew Chan                visilux@ucl.ac.uk
/?????????????????????????????????????????????/



From matt@jackson.apana.org.au Sun Jan 28 02:25:32 1996
Return-Path: <matt@jackson.apana.org.au>
From: Matt Jackson <matt@jackson.apana.org.au>
Subject: Subscribe to mailing lists
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:23:37 +1100 (EST)
Reply-To: jackson@mail.act.apana.org.au
Status: RO


Hi,
   I am not sure if I am subscribed to the mailing lists or not.

My name is: Matt jackson

Email Address: 	jackson@mail.act.apana.org.au
Or:		jackson@posgate.apana.org.au


Thanks.
	Matt.
---
Matt Jackson                   "You can talk about the cutting edge 
jackson@mail.act.apana.org.au   of technology all you like but 
Canberra,Australia              someone has to hold the knife..."


From bpaolo@augustea.it Sun Jan 28 17:53:15 1996
Return-Path: <bpaolo@augustea.it>
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 03:28:35 -0800
From: Paolo Bernardelli <bpaolo@jupiter.augustea.it>
Organization: Poliedra
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Subscribe mailing list
Status: RO

Please Greg Subscribe me to radiance Mailing List!!!
send mail to bpaolo@augustea.it

thank Paolo Bernardelli

From erik@duticg.twi.tudelft.nl Tue Jan 30 05:51:27 1996
Return-Path: <erik@duticg.twi.tudelft.nl>
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:15:00 +0100 (MET)
From: Erik Reinhard <erik@duticg.twi.tudelft.nl>
Subject: subscribe
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
Status: RO


Please subscribe erik@duticg.twi.tudelft.nl (Erik Reinhard)
to the radiance mailing list.

Thanks,
Erik

From guilbaud@ensinfo.univ-nantes.fr Fri Feb  2 09:44:26 1996
Return-Path: <guilbaud@ensinfo.univ-nantes.fr>
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 18:51:28 +0100
From: Sebastien Guilbaud <guilbaud@ensinfo.univ-nantes.fr>
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Mailing list
Status: RO

Thank you for your prompt answer.
I would like to subscribe to both mailing lists, please.
I had a small (huge in fact) problem recompiling Radiance
on our Alpha,here, but it compiled right out of the box on our
old DecStations .......
I will try it out tonight on my Linux machine : the night
will be very looooonng .
thanks in advance
Sebastien.

From greg Mon Feb  5 09:26:49 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 96 09:01:34 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: radiance-discuss
Subject: Radiance on a Cray?
Status: RO

Can anyone help this gentleman?  Please don't use the reply command, rather
e-mail to his address directly.

If you would like to be removed from the Radiance mailing list, send a
request to unsubscribe from the discussion group to:

	radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov

-Greg
--------------------------
>From media@centauro.polito.it Sun Feb  4 04:43:05 1996
Return-Path: <media@centauro.polito.it>
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 96 13:35:30 +0100
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: Luca CANEPARO <media@centauro.polito.it>
Subject: Radiance on the Cray's.
Cc: media@polclu.polito.it
Status: R


Hi Greg,
Could  you  please  put me in touch with  someone  who  installed
Radiance on the Cray's computers?
Best regards,
Luca Caneparo
Politecnico di Torino
Italy
e-mail media@centauro.polito.it



From guilbaud@ensinfo.univ-nantes.fr Tue Feb  6 02:34:58 1996
Return-Path: <guilbaud@ensinfo.univ-nantes.fr>
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 10:58:42 +0100
From: Sebastien Guilbaud <guilbaud@ensinfo.univ-nantes.fr>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Radiance compilation on Linux
Status: RO

I recently compiled Radiance on my Linux system (gcc 2.7.2, libc 5.2.18)
and it worked almost perfectly : i had to remove the Xmshr library from
the makefile : i don't have this library on my machine.
Anyone knows the purpose of this library ?

Except this,Radiance runs rather well (my processor is a poor DX4-100).

Seb.

From geigel@akbar.psc.edu Tue Feb  6 07:40:07 1996
Return-Path: <geigel@akbar.psc.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 10:00:28 -0500
From: geigel@akbar.psc.edu (Joe Geigel)
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov, globillum@imag.fr
Subject: Looking for accurate illumination/BRDFs
Reply-To: geigel@psc.edu
Status: RO



Hello...
 
   I am conducting an experiment, in the spirit of the studies with the
Cornell box, where I will be comparing a computer rendered scene
(rendered with RADIANCE) with an equivalent scene in the real world.  
As such, I will need to find luminarires and materials in the real 
world whose physical data is accurately recorded and generally available.
   
   I was wondering if anyone can recommend any particular luminaires
whose illumination data is available (and considered accurate) and/or 
materials whose BRDF data is available (and also accurate) and where
I might obtain such data.

   Any help or pointers would be greatly appreciated.


                                     Thanks in advance,

                                         -- joe geigel
                                            pittsburgh supercomputing center
                                            geigel@psc.edu

From bpaolo@augustea.it Tue Feb  6 16:18:46 1996
Return-Path: <bpaolo@augustea.it>
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 1996 01:24:32 -0800
From: Paolo Bernardelli <bpaolo@jupiter.augustea.it>
Organization: Poliedra
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Radiance compilation on Linux
Status: RO

Dear Grag

Sebastien Guilbaud wrote:
> 
> I recently compiled Radiance on my Linux system (gcc 2.7.2, libc 5.2.18)
> and it worked almost perfectly : i had to remove the Xmshr library from
> the makefile : i don't have this library on my machine.
> Anyone knows the purpose of this library ?
> 
> Except this,Radiance runs rather well (my processor is a poor DX4-100).
> 
> Seb.

I have had the same problems ...
And I try to substitude with a generic -lX11
but when I try to use rpict or rview that use X11 output device
there was a bad suprise....
I try to compile the 2.6a or b  Release of radiance.
With the 2.5 (Official Release ) all is ok but the new feature of
2.6 realease are really interesting.
Dear Grag try to light myself....... and my compiler...


Thank and Bye
Paolo Bernardelli

From greg Tue Feb  6 16:23:53 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 96 16:23:24 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: bpaolo@jupiter.augustea.it
Subject: Re:  Radiance compilation on Linux
Cc: greg, guilbaud@ensinfo.univ-nantes.fr
Status: RO

OK -- I removed the -lXmshr line from makeall for Linux, but I don't kow
(know) what it does or doesn't do.

-Greg

P.S.  You will get some bounced mail from your posting to radiance-discuss.
Please ignore it!


From bpaolo@augustea.it Tue Feb  6 16:38:40 1996
Return-Path: <bpaolo@augustea.it>
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 1996 02:12:43 -0800
From: Paolo Bernardelli <bpaolo@jupiter.augustea.it>
Organization: Poliedra
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re: Radiance compilation on Linux
Status: RO

Gregory J. Ward wrote:
> 
> OK -- I removed the -lXmshr line from makeall for Linux, but I don't kow
> (know) what it does or doesn't do.
> 
> -Greg
> 
> P.S.  You will get some bounced mail from your posting to radiance-discuss.
> Please ignore it!

I don't rememeber very well... because I try to compile two
week ago...
Tomorrow I will be more exact.
But what You can imagine that all executable that try to
to use X11 library wasn't campile.
When I correct with "-lX11" the -lXmshr link, the rpict and rview 
executable were built.
But when I try to make a render there wasn't any answer or beginning of 
trace.
Tomorrow I will send another more exact mail.

Thank Greg by Paolo Bernardelli.

From nv91-gta@nada.kth.se Mon Feb 12 10:28:16 1996
Return-Path: <nv91-gta@nada.kth.se>
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 19:27:52 +0100 (MET)
From: Gustav Taxen <nv91-gta@nada.kth.se>
To: "Gregory J. Ward" <greg@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: Radiance mailing list subscription request
Status: RO


> Subscribe to which list?  The moderated announcement and digest mailing list,
> or the unmoderated discussion group?  Usually people subscribe either to
> the announcement list only, or to both lists.

Hi, Greg! I thought this was an automatic mailing list server, so I sent 
a "help" command to check what my options were. If the announcement 
messages are posted to the unmoderated group, I'd like to subscribe to 
that (in digest form, if possible), please.

BTW, thanks for a great program!

Sincerely,
Gustav

      )\._.,--....,'``.
     /,   _.. \   _\  (`._ ,.
--- `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' ------------------------------------------------
                        | Gustav Taxin (nv91-gta@nada.kth.se)
  Listen!   -John Cage  | Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
                        | http://www.nada.kth.se/~nv91-gta
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          (cat by Felix Lee, flee@cse.psu.edu)


From jlm@gamsau.archi.fr Tue Feb 13 09:06:24 1996
Return-Path: <jlm@gamsau.archi.fr>
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 17:32:01 +0100
From: Jean-Louis Maltret-GAMSAU <jlm@gamsau.archi.fr>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Subscribe
Status: RO


Please could you change my address on this list, which was :

jlm@corbu.cnrs-mrs.fr (or jlm@gamsau.cnrs-mrs.fr , this is equivalent 
and I don't know under what address I have subscribed)

to the new address :

jlm@gamsau.archi.fr

Thanks and best regards.

J-L.Maltret - Gamsau - School of Architecture - Marseille-Luminy France.

From greg Tue Feb 13 10:12:11 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 09:46:31 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: radiance-discuss
Subject: Forgive and forget
Status: RO

Please ignore that last message, which was posted accidentally by a user
to the entire Radiance discussion group, when he meant to send it to:

	radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov

Please address all requests for changes in your discussion group and
digest/announcement list subscriptions to the above address, rather
than to the discussion group itself.  Also, be careful when you reply
to a discussion group posting, so that you don't inadvertantly send
mail to the entire group when you mean for it to go to the individual
originator or to me, the list manager.

Thanks for your patience and cooperation.
-Greg Ward

From g.elisara@auckland.ac.nz Thu Feb 15 23:59:56 1996
Return-Path: <g.elisara@auckland.ac.nz>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 20:59:32 +1300 (NDT)
From: Greg Elisara <g.elisara@auckland.ac.nz>
Subject: subscribe
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Status: RO

Please add me to the Radiance Discussion group.

Thanks,

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

               Greg Elisara
         g.elisara@auckland.ac.nz
           Dept of Architecture,
    University of Auckland, New Zealand.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 

From g.elisara@auckland.ac.nz Sat Feb 17 02:23:44 1996
Return-Path: <g.elisara@auckland.ac.nz>
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 22:57:07 +1300 (NDT)
From: Greg Elisara <g.elisara@auckland.ac.nz>
Subject: Radiance and Linux/XFree86 at 16bpp
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Status: RO

Hi all,

I've been running Radiance on a Linux box for some time but have only 
ever been able to get it to work with the X server running at 8bpp.

Since I've decided to go the ELF way I decided to try and fix all the 
littel problems that were bothering me, particularly this Radiance one.

I'm not in working distance of the Linux box in question so I can't give 
you all the details but the gist is:

	-RedHat Distribution v2.1
	-Kernel 1.2.13
	-XFree86 3.1.2
	-P5/100 CPU
	-Diamond Stealth 64 2M DRAM

I'm assuming that the X parts of Radiance (rview, ximage etc) can work at 
higher colour depths than 8bpp. XFree does.

Anyway, if anyone out there can help it would be very much appreciated.


PS: just some superfluous info for those considerin the change to ELF - 
if you want/need to compile the Radiance binaries make sure that the 
Makefile is explicit about where it can find the X libs. Running the 
script straight out of the box didn't work for me. -L/usr/X11/lib needed 
to be explicitly added to the gcc line for the X11 bits to be made.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

               Greg Elisara
         g.elisara@auckland.ac.nz
           Dept of Architecture,
    University of Auckland, New Zealand.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 

From hwj@lin1.gk.dtu.dk Sun Feb 18 14:06:44 1996
Return-Path: <hwj@lin1.gk.dtu.dk>
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 22:38:23 +0100 (GMT+0100)
From: Henrik Wann Jensen <hwj@lin1.gk.dtu.dk>
To: Greg Elisara <g.elisara@auckland.ac.nz>
Cc: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re: Radiance and Linux/XFree86 at 16bpp
Status: RO


On Sun, 18 Feb 1996, Greg Elisara wrote:

> 	-RedHat Distribution v2.1
> 	-Kernel 1.2.13
> 	-XFree86 3.1.2
> 	-P5/100 CPU
> 	-Diamond Stealth 64 2M DRAM
> 
> I'm assuming that the X parts of Radiance (rview, ximage etc) can work at 
> higher colour depths than 8bpp. XFree does.
> 
> Anyway, if anyone out there can help it would be very much appreciated.

I am having almost the same configuration (also Diamond Stealth) and it
is true that Radiace doesn't recognize the 16bpp visual, but you can use
the Diamond Card with 32bpp and Radiance runs perfectly well with this 
visual.

> PS: just some superfluous info for those considerin the change to ELF - 
> if you want/need to compile the Radiance binaries make sure that the 
> Makefile is explicit about where it can find the X libs. Running the 
> script straight out of the box didn't work for me. -L/usr/X11/lib needed 
> to be explicitly added to the gcc line for the X11 bits to be made.

I use Slackware 3.0 ELF and Radiance compiled without any problems at all.

- Henrik

+-------------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
+ Henrik Wann Jensen                  + e-mail: igkhwj@unidhp.uni-c.dk         +
+ Graphical Communication             + www: http://www.gk.dtu.dk/home/hwj/    +
+ Technical University of Denmark     + phone: +45 45 25 16 64                 +
+ Building 116, DK-2800               + fax:   +45 45 93 83 17                 +
+-------------------------------------+----------------------------------------+


From audile@onramp.net Thu Mar 14 09:48:46 1996
Return-Path: <audile@onramp.net>
Subject: subscribe
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 11:48:29 -0600
From: Robert Kay <robert@audile.com>
To: <radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Status: RO

I have now been using Radiance under MachTen on the Power Macintosh for 
several months.   Between rendering, I am starting a port of the core 
batch-rendering code to run as a tool under the Macintosh Programmer's 
Workshop (MPW) shell using Motorola's optimizing compiler.  Initial tests 
look promising, but there are many details to be worked out...

Please subscribe me to both (all) Radiance groups.

robert kay

From victor@fa.utl.pt Mon Mar 25 12:04:04 1996
Return-Path: <victor@fa.utl.pt>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 22:01:39 +0000 (GMT)
From: Victor Ferreira <victor@fa.utl.pt>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Subscribtion to the Discussion Group
Status: RO

Hello,

I'm a new user of Radiance... actually i'm still instlling
it... or trying to...
I'm an portuguese architect, and i teach at the Faculdade de
Arquitectura da Universidade Tecnica de Lisboa (School of
Architecture of the Technical University of Lisbon).

I=B4ve been reading the digest of the mailing list... and i tought
it woulb interesting to receive it and participate.

I will be trying to introduce more coleagues to Radiance, and
start a group to work with it, here in the school...

Thank you for your atention,
=09=09=09
=09=09=09=09=09Victor Ferreira
_________________________________________________________________
victor@cifa.fa.utl.pt


From mhamstra@wolfenet.com Wed Mar 27 17:37:39 1996
Return-Path: <mhamstra@wolfenet.com>
Sender: mhamstra@wolfe.net
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 17:37:54 -0800
From: Mark Hamstra <mhamstra@wolfenet.com>
Organization: M. Elliott Hamstra Design & Consulting
To: "Gregory J. Ward" <greg@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: which list?
Status: RO

Gregory J. Ward wrote:
> 
> Re:  Radiance mailing list subscription request
> 
> Subscribe to which list?  The moderated announcement and digest mailing list,
> or the unmoderated discussion group?  Usually people subscribe either to
> the announcement list only, or to both lists.
> 
> -Greg

Both, please.

Sorry, Greg, I was expecting Majordomo.

Mark

From ra.deangelis@agora.stm.it Wed Mar 27 23:55:59 1996
Return-Path: <ra.deangelis@agora.stm.it>
Sender: root@agora.stm.it
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 15:24:50 +0000
From: Raffaele De Angelis <ra.deangelis@agora.stm.it>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: (no subject)
Status: RO

subscribe Raffaele De Angelis
I wish to subscribe to this list
thanks

From tim@tarn.m.ISAR.de Sat Mar 30 03:17:47 1996
Return-Path: <tim@tarn.m.ISAR.de>
From: "tim" <tim@tarn.m.ISAR.de>
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 1996 12:17:59 +0000
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward)
Subject: Re: subscribe
Status: RO

On Mar 29,  1:06pm, Gregory J. Ward wrote:
> Subject: Re:  subscribe
> Re:  Radiance mailing list subscription request
>
> Subscribe to which list?  The moderated announcement and digest mailing list,
> or the unmoderated discussion group?  Usually people subscribe either to
> the announcement list only, or to both lists.
>
> -Greg
>-- End of excerpt from Gregory J. Ward


I would like to subscribe to both.  Could you also give me the addresses for
submitting to each mailing list?

Thanks,

Tim Moran

From jib@Jbrange Thu Apr  4 05:45:03 1996
Return-Path: <jib@Jbrange>
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:15:42 +0200
From: Jean.Brange@utopia.fnet.fr
Errors-To: jib@worldnet.fr
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: radiance & microstation
Comments: Hyperbole mail buttons accepted, v03.19.07.
Status: RO

Hello,

I am looking for a microstation to radiance translator, for an urgent
picture from a microstation database.
Does any one out there has something like that?

Thank's,

Jean.

From nv91-gta@nada.kth.se Thu Apr 11 01:53:05 1996
Return-Path: <nv91-gta@nada.kth.se>
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 10:19:03 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Gustav Taxen <nv91-gta@nada.kth.se>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: DXF translators and Radiance
Status: RO


I'm looking for a free CAD program that I can use together with Radiance 
to design rooms and furniture (not professionally, just for fun). I have a 
demo of bCAD and MNM (Midnight Modeller) for Linux - is there a 
DXF->Radiance translator that doesn't require AutoLisp?

On another issue - can Radiance be used for "pure" radiosity 
calculations? I'm interested in generating a result that is independent 
of the viewpoint (i.e. intensity values for different wavelengths at every
polygon vertice or something similar). If not, is there a package that 
does this?

Thank you,

Gustav Taxin

      )\._.,--....,'``.
     /,   _.. \   _\  (`._ ,.
--- `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' ------------------------------------------------
                        | Gustav Taxin (nv91-gta@nada.kth.se)
  Listen!   -John Cage  | Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
                        | http://www.student.nada.kth.se/~nv91-gta
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          (cat by Felix Lee, flee@cse.psu.edu)

From greg Thu Apr 11 09:13:54 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 96 09:13:22 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: nv91-gta@nada.kth.se
Subject: Re:  DXF translators and Radiance
Status: RO

Hi Gustav,

I don't know of any working-order DXF translator for Radiance,
unfortunately.  I have a pathway working from 3D-studio, and someone
tells me that BRL-CAD has a Radiance export option.  What other formats
can you produce besides DXF?

You can use Radiance to generate spectral radiance values at vertices.
So long as none of your surfaces have any specular component, this will
give identical results to a radiosity calculation.

-Greg

From hwj@lin1.gk.dtu.dk Thu Apr 11 09:40:25 1996
Return-Path: <hwj@lin1.gk.dtu.dk>
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 17:04:30 +0100 (GMT+0100)
From: Henrik Wann Jensen <hwj@lin1.gk.dtu.dk>
To: Gustav Taxen <nv91-gta@nada.kth.se>
Cc: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re: DXF translators and Radiance
Status: RO


On Thu, 11 Apr 1996, Gustav Taxen wrote:

> I'm looking for a free CAD program that I can use together with Radiance 
> to design rooms and furniture (not professionally, just for fun). I have a 
> demo of bCAD and MNM (Midnight Modeller) for Linux - is there a 
> DXF->Radiance translator that doesn't require AutoLisp?

I believe there is a DXF>-Radiance translator in the Radiance package.

> On another issue - can Radiance be used for "pure" radiosity 
> calculations? I'm interested in generating a result that is independent 
> of the viewpoint (i.e. intensity values for different wavelengths at every
> polygon vertice or something similar). If not, is there a package that 
> does this?

Radiance does not use the Radiosity algorithm. It computes values at
discrete points that are similar to the values computed by Radiosity.
These values can be saved in a file and reused if you want to make
several images of the same scene from different view-points.

There are "pure" radiosity packages on the net. Check
ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/graphics/packages/radiosity/

I believe this directory contains a few.

- Henrik

+------------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
+ Henrik Wann Jensen                 + e-mail: hwj@gk.dtu.dk                 +
+ Graphical Communication            + www: http://www.gk.dtu.dk/home/hwj/   +
+ Technical University of Denmark    + phone: +45 45 25 16 64                +
+ Building 116, DK-2800              + fax:   +45 45 93 83 17                +
+------------------------------------+---------------------------------------+

From nv91-gta@nada.kth.se Fri Apr 12 04:58:24 1996
Return-Path: <nv91-gta@nada.kth.se>
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 13:58:10 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Gustav Taxen <nv91-gta@nada.kth.se>
To: "Gregory J. Ward" <greg@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: DXF translators and Radiance
Status: RO


Hi, Greg!

> I don't know of any working-order DXF translator for Radiance,
> unfortunately.  I have a pathway working from 3D-studio, and someone
> tells me that BRL-CAD has a Radiance export option.  What other formats
> can you produce besides DXF?

Francois Forest mentioned SCED, a program for constraint based scenery
design that looks very interesting indeed. The distribution is free with=20
source code and it produces output directly for Radiance, Rayshade, POV,
RenderMan programs and VRML (don't know about DXF, though). The other=20
free modellers I've found on the Internet mostly produces DXF and POV-ray=
=20
output.

> You can use Radiance to generate spectral radiance values at vertices.
> So long as none of your surfaces have any specular component, this will
> give identical results to a radiosity calculation.

That's what I was hoping for. I assume I'll have to use rtrace in some=20
way. Is there an "easy" way to generate the rays rtrace wants as input or=
=20
do I have to write a special program to do this?

Sincerely,
Gustav Tax=E9n



From greg Fri Apr 12 15:38:53 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 15:38:34 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: nv91-gta@nada.kth.se
Subject: Re: DXF translators and Radiance
Status: RO

> That's what I was hoping for. I assume I'll have to use rtrace in some=20
> way. Is there an "easy" way to generate the rays rtrace wants as input or=
> do I have to write a special program to do this?

There is no "easy" way.  You have to write a program if you want vertex
values, since Radiance does not track these or treat them specially in any
way.

-G

From lighting@idt-isep.ipp.pt Wed Apr 17 09:31:03 1996
Return-Path: <lighting@idt-isep.ipp.pt>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: 
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 96 17:28:24 +0100
From: lighting@idt-isep.ipp.pt
X-Mts: smtp
Status: RO

Subscribe radiance-discuss Alexandre Valle de Carvalho

From selee2@smtppc.kict.re.kr Thu Apr 18 21:37:14 1996
Return-Path: <selee2@smtppc.kict.re.kr>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 13:38:06 +0900
From: Seung-Eon Lee <selee2@smtppc.kict.re.kr>
Organization: KICT
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: subscribe
X-Url: http://www.unlv.edu/library/ARCH/sect2.html#2.0
Status: RO

subscribe RADIANCE-DISCUSS Seung-Eon Lee

From shadap@teil.soft.net Tue Apr 23 23:35:39 1996
Return-Path: <shadap@teil.soft.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 12:03:33 -0800 (PST)
From: "Sunil S. Hadap" <shadap@teil.soft.net>
Subject: I would like to become the member!
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Status: RO

Dear Madam/sir,

   I am representing TATA ELXSI (INDIA) LTD, we are also into 
architectural walkthroughs. I would like to parcipate in radiance 
discussions.

  To start with I have a question.

  If I am using IRIS Performer for visualization, how can I use radiance 
solution into Perforemr.

Thanks


                      o------------------------------o
                     / COMPUTER GRAPHICS HAPPENS HERE \
o-------------------o-----------------o----------------o----------------------o
| Sunil Sharadchandra Hadap           |                                       |
| TATA ELXSI (INDIA) LTD.             |                                       |
| Whitefield Road, Mahadevpura Post,  | 2363, 2nd Cross, HAL 3rd,             |
| Hoody, Bangalore - 560 048 - INDIA  | Konena Agrahara, Vimanpura Post,      |
| Tel   : 91-80-8452016 / 8452017     | Bangalore-17                          |
| E_mail: shadap@teil.soft.net        |                                       |
| Time  : 9.30 AM to 6.00 PM (INDIA)  |                                       |
o-------------------------------------o---------------------------------------o




From dboyer@onlink.net Wed Apr 24 13:08:24 1996
Return-Path: <dboyer@onlink.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 16:01:13 -0400
From: dboyer@onlink.net
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Status: RO

subscribe RADIANCE-DISCUSS Chad Boyer


From chipr@tomquartz.niestu.com Tue May  7 09:03:59 1996
Return-Path: <chipr@tomquartz.niestu.com>
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 09:03:57 -0700 (MST)
From: Chip Richards <chipr@tomquartz.niestu.com>
To: "Gregory J. Ward" <greg@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Subject: Re:  subscribe
Status: RO

On Tue, 7 May 1996, Gregory J. Ward wrote:

   Re:  Radiance mailing list subscription request
   
   Subscribe to which list?  The moderated announcement and digest mailing list,
   or the unmoderated discussion group?  Usually people subscribe either to
   the announcement list only, or to both lists.
   
   -Greg

Oh, sorry, your README in the "discuss" archive directory didn't mention more
than one list, nor did the web page.  Heck, after the lecture to newbies you
have in your README, I'd have expected a bit more, umm, coordination! <grin>

In any case, I hunger for information, so subscribe me to both lists, please.

--
Chip


From mattheos@"[192.168.2.1]" Sun May 12 12:09:19 1996
Return-Path: <mattheos@[192.168.2.1]>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <mattheos@[192.168.2.1]>
From: Papavasiliou Mattheos <entasis.hellas.net@mail.demon.net>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 20:07:25 +0000
Subject: subscribe to the Radiance discussion group
Reply-To: mattheos@entasis.hellas.net
X-Confirm-Reading-To: mattheos@entasis.hellas.net
X-Pmrqc: 1
Return-Receipt-To: mattheos@entasis.hellas.net
Priority: normal
Status: RO

subscribe to the Radiance discussion group

From rjt@ramjet.jhuapl.edu Tue May 14 11:40:58 1996
Return-Path: <rjt@ramjet.jhuapl.edu>
From: Robert Taylor <rjt@ramjet.jhuapl.edu>
Subject: Black Objects?
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Tue, 14 May 96 14:03:10 EDT
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
Status: RO

To: Radiance Users

I've been trying to render a black object without much success. I can create
gray objects of various degrees of lightness, but not really what you 
would call a black object with highlights. Does anyone have a good recipe? Am 
I missing something fundamental about Radiance?
Thanks for your help,
--
Bob Taylor,     JHU / Applied Physics Laboratory
E-Mail:         rjt@ramjet.jhuapl.edu

From greg Tue May 14 12:40:01 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Tue, 14 May 96 12:01:39 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov, rjt@ramjet.jhuapl.edu
Subject: Re:  Black Objects?
Status: RO

I recommend that you use plastic with a small diffuse component, i.e.:

	void plastic black_material
	0
	0
	5 .02 .02 .02 .05 0

The fifth parameter (roughness) may be adjusted to your liking.

-Greg

From shadap@teil.soft.net Wed May 15 01:05:26 1996
Return-Path: <shadap@teil.soft.net>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 13:02:05 -0800 (PST)
From: "Sunil S. Hadap" <shadap@teil.soft.net>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Status: RO

Dear friends,

   Now a days I am trying to use radiance for lighting calculation for
Architectural Walkthrougs. I am using SGI Onyx with tools like Performer,
Vega, Multigen. I wonder how I can use radiance lighting calculations in
Performer sa there is no file format which both radiance and performer
support unlike say Lightscape's lighting tool.


THANKS

                      o------------------------------o
                     / COMPUTER GRAPHICS HAPPENS HERE \
o-------------------o-----------------o----------------o----------------------o
| Sunil Sharadchandra Hadap           |                                       |
| TATA ELXSI (INDIA) LTD.             |                                       |
| Whitefield Road, Mahadevpura Post,  | 2363, 2nd Cross, HAL 3rd,             |
| Hoody, Bangalore - 560 048 - INDIA  | Konena Agrahara, Vimanpura Post,      |
| Tel   : 91-80-8452016 / 8452017     | Bangalore-17                          |
| E_mail: shadap@teil.soft.net        |                                       |
| Time  : 9.30 AM to 6.00 PM (INDIA)  |                                       |
o-------------------------------------o---------------------------------------o



From darkwing@bsdd.Regensburg.com Wed May 15 18:08:53 1996
Return-Path: <darkwing@bsdd.Regensburg.com>
From: Christoph Hoegl <darkwing@bsdd.Regensburg.com>
Subject: Subscription to Discussion-Group
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 03:08:53 +0200 (MET DST)
Status: RO

If not already done, i would like join the Rad.-Discussion-Group

Christoph Hoegl / darkwing@bsdd.regensburg.com /
Siedlungsstr. 18 93128 Regenstauf Germany  Fax:+49 940270611       
Key fingerprint =  C2 1F 84 52 93 20 BE C4  10 71 57 CC 2E 9E 59 EC

From jbi@saturn.dmu.ac.uk Tue May 21 10:35:48 1996
Return-Path: <jbi@saturn.dmu.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 17:48:11 +0100
From: jbi@dmu.ac.uk (Joven Ignacio)
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: opaque or transluscent glass
Status: RO

Hi

Does anyone out there have "opaque or transluscent" glass material definitions 
on hand? I'd really appreciate some suggestions. If you've done some experiments
 on materials that are based on real models, could you please offer some suggestions on how to do this?

Thanks in advance,

Joven
email: jbi@dmu.ac.uk

From kdouglas@barrywebb.com.au Tue May 21 22:11:18 1996
Return-Path: <kdouglas@barrywebb.com.au>
From: Ken Douglas <kdouglas@barrywebb.com.au>
To: "'Gregory J. Ward'" <greg@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Subject: RE: subscribe
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 15:08:10 +-1000
Return-Receipt-To: <kdouglas@barrywebb.com.au>
Status: RO

Greg,

Yes, this is my old address.  I haven't had a chance to log in to my old =
service and unsubscribe.  Could you please remove that address from both =
groups and replace with my new address.

Thanks,

Ken

----------
From: 	Gregory J. Ward[SMTP:greg@hobbes.lbl.gov]
Sent: 	Wednesday, 22 May 1996 2:43
To: 	kdouglas@barrywebb.com.au
Subject: 	Re:  subscribe

Hi Ken,

I have a "kdoug@ozemail.com.au" already subscribed to both the =
discussion
and digest groups for Radiance.  Is this you, or an old address for you?
Which list(s) do you want to (re)subscribe to?

-Greg


From mstock@engin.umich.edu Mon May 27 10:59:57 1996
Return-Path: <mstock@engin.umich.edu>
Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 14:00:02 -0400
From: Mark Stock <mstock@engin.umich.edu>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Status: RO

subscribe radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov

From kdouglas@barrywebb.com.au Tue May 28 09:11:45 1996
Return-Path: <kdouglas@barrywebb.com.au>
From: Ken Douglas <kdouglas@barrywebb.com.au>
To: "'Radiance Discussion Group'" <radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Subject: Rpict parameters and daylighting
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 01:30:49 +-1000
Return-Receipt-To: <kdouglas@barrywebb.com.au>
Status: RO

I am hoping someone can help me in understanding the various ambient
value related parameters for Rpict.  I am doing an analysis of the
lighting levels obtained from daylight within an office building atrium.
(The client needs to know if the space can maintain large palm trees).
As such I am not so much interested in obtaining a realistic image as
obtaining accurate predictions of the illuminance levels (lux) within
the space.

What I would like to know is ; does the parameters such as ambient value
(-av), ambient bounces (-ab) and ambient divisions (-ad), etc, affect
the actual values calculated by Radiance or do they merely modify the
image for display purposes ?

I have picked up a few clues this evening from the digests for working
out the optimum values for ambient values.  To date I have been
"cheating" by running the RAD program interactively and interrogating
the resulting values of these parameters.

The problem is when using the Trace command on the images I get
different values of illuminance for different parameters.

As a matter of interest, I am using the DOS port of Radiance distributed
with the Adeline (v1) package.

Also if I may, there seems to be very little information in the DOS
package regarding the Dayfact script.  Given I am very interested in
calculating workplane illuminances, I wonder if anyone could provide me
with a working example or tips on using the Dayfact module.

Thanks,

Ken Douglas

From greg Tue May 28 11:47:26 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Tue, 28 May 96 11:47:07 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: kdouglas@barrywebb.com.au
Subject: Re:  Rpict parameters and daylighting
Status: RO

Hi Ken,

The -a* parameters do indeed affect the computed illuminance values.  Using
rad to set these parameters is a fine way to go about it.  In fact, the
OPTFILE variable is set up for just this purpose.  Assign it a file name,
then use rtrace @filename to access the assigned options.

You can also try writing to Joven Ignacio <jbi@dmu.ac.uk> of Demontfort
university, since he has done a bit of experimentation with atria.

-Greg

From jaf@MIT.EDU Wed Jun  5 11:10:21 1996
Return-Path: <jaf@MIT.EDU>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: subscribe
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 14:10:28 EDT
From: Jeffrey Feldgoise <jaf@MIT.EDU>
Status: RO


Hi.

Could you please add me to the folowing email discussion list?

radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov


Thanks!

Jeff Feldgoise




 _____________________________________________________________________
 -------------------------------
  |                                                          
  |    Jeff Feldgoise                       jaf@mit.edu             
  |    MIT Dept. of Architecture            (617) 258-9339 (lab)  
  |    Visual Simulation Group              (617) 738-1444 (home) 	
  || 




From jadi@fago.bwk.tue.nl Wed Jun 19 01:42:51 1996
Return-Path: <jadi@fago.bwk.tue.nl>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 09:50:32 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Jan Diepens <jadi@fago.bwk.tue.nl>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: RAL colors
Status: RO

Hi radiance user,

Include with this message the radiance definition for
a number of RAL paint codes frequently used in Europe.


                          O
                    ____     O
                   (_/\_)  o
                    =() ..
+------------o00----------------------------+
|                Jan Diepens                |
|    Eindhoven University of Technologie    |
|                P.O. Box 513               |
|    5600 MB Eindhoven, The Netherlands     |
|       Telephone -31 40 2 47 35 14         |
|        Telefax -31 40 2 43 85 95          |
|       E-mail: jadi@fago.bwk.tue.nl        |
+----------------------------o00------------+


-------include message------

# RAL Farbregister: RAL 841-GL 



#
# RAL1000 : grunbeige
# reflectance factor: 0.480
void plastic RAL1000
0
0
5 0.523	 0.488	 0.280	 0 0

#
# RAL1001 : beige
# reflectance factor: 0.454
void plastic RAL1001
0
0
5 0.534	 0.445	 0.268	 0 0

#
# RAL1002 : sandgelb
# reflectance factor: 0.434
void plastic RAL1002
0
0
5 0.552	 0.416	 0.195	 0 0

#
# RAL1003 : signalgelb
# reflectance factor: 0.469
void plastic RAL1003
0
0
5 0.776	 0.401	 0.030	 0 0

#
# RAL1004 : goldgelb
# reflectance factor: 0.415
void plastic RAL1004
0
0
5 0.661	 0.364	 0.033	 0 0

#
# RAL1005 : honiggelb
# reflectance factor: 0.312
void plastic RAL1005
0
0
5 0.493	 0.276	 0.016	 0 0

#
# RAL1006 : maisgelb
# reflectance factor: 0.380
void plastic RAL1006
0
0
5 0.649	 0.317	 0.024	 0 0

#
# RAL1007 : chromgelb
# reflectance factor: 0.371
void plastic RAL1007
0
0
5 0.666	 0.298	 0.013	 0 0

#
# RAL1011 : braunbeige
# reflectance factor: 0.247
void plastic RAL1011
0
0
5 0.352	 0.224	 0.096	 0 0

#
# RAL1012 : zitronengelb
# reflectance factor: 0.450
void plastic RAL1012
0
0
5 0.623	 0.428	 0.071	 0 0

#
# RAL1013 : perlweiss
# reflectance factor: 0.703
void plastic RAL1013
0
0
5 0.664	 0.726	 0.639	 0 0

#
# RAL1014 : elfenbein
# reflectance factor: 0.566
void plastic RAL1014
0
0
5 0.622	 0.568	 0.369	 0 0

#
# RAL1015 : hellelfenbein
# reflectance factor: 0.670
void plastic RAL1015
0
0
5 0.683	 0.681	 0.536	 0 0

#
# RAL1016 : schwefelgelb
# reflectance factor: 0.670
void plastic RAL1016
0
0
5 0.774	 0.696	 0.129	 0 0

#
# RAL1017 : safrangelb
# reflectance factor: 0.478
void plastic RAL1017
0
0
5 0.757	 0.412	 0.114	 0 0

#
# RAL1018 : zinkgelb
# reflectance factor: 0.624
void plastic RAL1018
0
0
5 0.845	 0.600	 0.107	 0 0

#
# RAL1019 : graubeige
# reflectance factor: 0.289
void plastic RAL1019
0
0
5 0.320	 0.286	 0.212	 0 0

#
# RAL1020 : olivgelb
# reflectance factor: 0.277
void plastic RAL1020
0
0
5 0.316	 0.277	 0.148	 0 0

#
# RAL1021 : kadmiumgelb
# reflectance factor: 0.516
void plastic RAL1021
0
0
5 0.782	 0.471	 0.023	 0 0

#
# RAL1023 : verkehrsgelb
# reflectance factor: 0.534
void plastic RAL1023
0
0
5 0.804	 0.489	 0.033	 0 0

#
# RAL1024 : okergelb
# reflectance factor: 0.302
void plastic RAL1024
0
0
5 0.414	 0.282	 0.099	 0 0

#
# RAL1027 : currygelb
# reflectance factor: 0.230
void plastic RAL1027
0
0
5 0.328	 0.216	 0.027	 0 0

#
# RAL1028 : melongelb
# reflectance factor: 0.485
void plastic RAL1028
0
0
5 0.885	 0.383	 0.015	 0 0

#
# RAL1032 : ginstergelb
# reflectance factor: 0.411
void plastic RAL1032
0
0
5 0.628	 0.370	 0.041	 0 0

#
# RAL1033 : dahliengelb
# reflectance factor: 0.446
void plastic RAL1033
0
0
5 0.774	 0.365	 0.045	 0 0

#
# RAL1034 : pastellgelb
# reflectance factor: 0.429
void plastic RAL1034
0
0
5 0.692	 0.362	 0.115	 0 0

#
# RAL2000 : gelborange
# reflectance factor: 0.285
void plastic RAL2000
0
0
5 0.582	 0.200	 0.015	 0 0

#
# RAL2001 : rotorange
# reflectance factor: 0.176
void plastic RAL2001
0
0
5 0.408	 0.103	 0.020	 0 0

#
# RAL2002 : blutorange
# reflectance factor: 0.157
void plastic RAL2002
0
0
5 0.410	 0.074	 0.013	 0 0

#
# RAL2003 : pastellorange
# reflectance factor: 0.349
void plastic RAL2003
0
0
5 0.723	 0.237	 0.049	 0 0

#
# RAL2004 : reinorange
# reflectance factor: 0.259
void plastic RAL2004
0
0
5 0.619	 0.145	 0.015	 0 0

#
# RAL2008 : hellrotorange
# reflectance factor: 0.316
void plastic RAL2008
0
0
5 0.684	 0.204	 0.030	 0 0

#
# RAL2009 : verkehrsorange
# reflectance factor: 0.246
void plastic RAL2009
0
0
5 0.582	 0.140	 0.015	 0 0

#
# RAL2010 : signalorange
# reflectance factor: 0.222
void plastic RAL2010
0
0
5 0.498	 0.137	 0.020	 0 0

#
# RAL2011 : tieforange
# reflectance factor: 0.319
void plastic RAL2011
0
0
5 0.656	 0.220	 0.033	 0 0

#
# RAL2012 : lachsorange
# reflectance factor: 0.252
void plastic RAL2012
0
0
5 0.527	 0.164	 0.075	 0 0

#
# RAL3000 : feuerrot
# reflectance factor: 0.116
void plastic RAL3000
0
0
5 0.301	 0.054	 0.020	 0 0

#
# RAL3001 : signalrot
# reflectance factor: 0.092
void plastic RAL3001
0
0
5 0.259	 0.035	 0.008	 0 0

#
# RAL3002 : karminrot
# reflectance factor: 0.093
void plastic RAL3002
0
0
5 0.256	 0.037	 0.012	 0 0

#
# RAL3004 : purperrot
# reflectance factor: 0.041
void plastic RAL3004
0
0
5 0.110	 0.017	 0.010	 0 0

#
# RAL3005 : weinrot
# reflectance factor: 0.028
void plastic RAL3005
0
0
5 0.072	 0.013	 0.010	 0 0

#
# RAL3007 : schwarzrot
# reflectance factor: 0.018
void plastic RAL3007
0
0
5 0.035	 0.012	 0.011	 0 0

#
# RAL3009 : oxidrot
# reflectance factor: 0.054
void plastic RAL3009
0
0
5 0.111	 0.035	 0.019	 0 0

#
# RAL3011 : braunrot
# reflectance factor: 0.054
void plastic RAL3011
0
0
5 0.147	 0.023	 0.008	 0 0

#
# RAL3012 : beigerot
# reflectance factor: 0.310
void plastic RAL3012
0
0
5 0.462	 0.265	 0.178	 0 0

#
# RAL3013 : tomatenrot
# reflectance factor: 0.095
void plastic RAL3013
0
0
5 0.243	 0.046	 0.015	 0 0

#
# RAL3014 : altrosa
# reflectance factor: 0.278
void plastic RAL3014
0
0
5 0.470	 0.211	 0.192	 0 0

#
# RAL3015 : hellrosa
# reflectance factor: 0.441
void plastic RAL3015
0
0
5 0.572	 0.393	 0.406	 0 0

#
# RAL3016 : korallenrot
# reflectance factor: 0.123
void plastic RAL3016
0
0
5 0.298	 0.065	 0.021	 0 0

#
# RAL3017 : rose
# reflectance factor: 0.223
void plastic RAL3017
0
0
5 0.472	 0.137	 0.114	 0 0

#
# RAL3018 : erdbeerrot
# reflectance factor: 0.190
void plastic RAL3018
0
0
5 0.454	 0.099	 0.075	 0 0

#
# RAL3020 : verkehrsrot
# reflectance factor: 0.130
void plastic RAL3020
0
0
5 0.370	 0.049	 0.008	 0 0

#
# RAL3022 : lachsrot
# reflectance factor: 0.257
void plastic RAL3022
0
0
5 0.500	 0.179	 0.099	 0 0

#
# RAL3027 : himbeerrot
# reflectance factor: 0.122
void plastic RAL3027
0
0
5 0.323	 0.051	 0.045	 0 0

#
# RAL3031 : orientrot
# reflectance factor: 0.118
void plastic RAL3031
0
0
5 0.288	 0.059	 0.039	 0 0

#
# RAL4001 : rotlila
# reflectance factor: 0.154
void plastic RAL4001
0
0
5 0.174	 0.138	 0.221	 0 0

#
# RAL4002 : rotviolett
# reflectance factor: 0.102
void plastic RAL4002
0
0
5 0.210	 0.063	 0.068	 0 0

#
# RAL4003 : erikaviolett
# reflectance factor: 0.254
void plastic RAL4003
0
0
5 0.436	 0.177	 0.280	 0 0

#
# RAL4004 : bordeauxviolett
# reflectance factor: 0.041
void plastic RAL4004
0
0
5 0.103	 0.018	 0.031	 0 0

#
# RAL4005 : blaulila
# reflectance factor: 0.171
void plastic RAL4005
0
0
5 0.141	 0.164	 0.321	 0 0

#
# RAL4006 : verkehrspurper
# reflectance factor: 0.110
void plastic RAL4006
0
0
5 0.208	 0.065	 0.161	 0 0

#
# RAL4007 : purperviolett
# reflectance factor: 0.027
void plastic RAL4007
0
0
5 0.046	 0.018	 0.034	 0 0

#
# RAL4008 : signalviolett
# reflectance factor: 0.129
void plastic RAL4008
0
0
5 0.181	 0.097	 0.222	 0 0

#
# RAL4009 : pastellviolett
# reflectance factor: 0.261
void plastic RAL4009
0
0
5 0.271	 0.253	 0.290	 0 0

#
# RAL5000 : violettblau
# reflectance factor: 0.067
void plastic RAL5000
0
0
5 0.013	 0.077	 0.156	 0 0

#
# RAL5001 : grunblau
# reflectance factor: 0.067
void plastic RAL5001
0
0
5 0.013	 0.077	 0.156	 0 0

#
# RAL5002 : ultramarinblau
# reflectance factor: 0.040
void plastic RAL5002
0
0
5 -0.003	 0.043	 0.156	 0 0

#
# RAL5003 : saphirblau
# reflectance factor: 0.027
void plastic RAL5003
0
0
5 -0.004	 0.032	 0.086	 0 0

#
# RAL5004 : schwarzblau
# reflectance factor: 0.006
void plastic RAL5004
0
0
5 0.002	 0.007	 0.014	 0 0

#
# RAL5005 : signalblau
# reflectance factor: 0.060
void plastic RAL5005
0
0
5 -0.039	 0.078	 0.231	 0 0

#
# RAL5007 : brillantblau
# reflectance factor: 0.112
void plastic RAL5007
0
0
5 0.020	 0.132	 0.248	 0 0

#
# RAL5008 : graublau
# reflectance factor: 0.031
void plastic RAL5008
0
0
5 0.017	 0.035	 0.049	 0 0

#
# RAL5009 : azurblau
# reflectance factor: 0.083
void plastic RAL5009
0
0
5 0.004	 0.103	 0.181	 0 0

#
# RAL5010 : enzianblau
# reflectance factor: 0.054
void plastic RAL5010
0
0
5 -0.028	 0.070	 0.194	 0 0

#
# RAL5011 : stahlblau
# reflectance factor: 0.013
void plastic RAL5011
0
0
5 -0.000	 0.016	 0.036	 0 0

#
# RAL5012 : lichtblau
# reflectance factor: 0.194
void plastic RAL5012
0
0
5 -0.009	 0.241	 0.469	 0 0

#
# RAL5013 : kobaltblau
# reflectance factor: 0.024
void plastic RAL5013
0
0
5 -0.000	 0.027	 0.079	 0 0

#
# RAL5014 : taubenblau
# reflectance factor: 0.183
void plastic RAL5014
0
0
5 0.098	 0.203	 0.301	 0 0

#
# RAL5015 : himmelblau
# reflectance factor: 0.155
void plastic RAL5015
0
0
5 -0.028	 0.197	 0.410	 0 0

#
# RAL5017 : verkehrsblau
# reflectance factor: 0.073
void plastic RAL5017
0
0
5 -0.050	 0.099	 0.255	 0 0

#
# RAL5018 : turkisblau
# reflectance factor: 0.184
void plastic RAL5018
0
0
5 0.014	 0.240	 0.279	 0 0

#
# RAL5019 : capriblau
# reflectance factor: 0.080
void plastic RAL5019
0
0
5 -0.027	 0.105	 0.223	 0 0

#
# RAL5020 : ozeanblau
# reflectance factor: 0.027
void plastic RAL5020
0
0
5 -0.015	 0.039	 0.061	 0 0

#
# RAL5021 : wasserblau
# reflectance factor: 0.115
void plastic RAL5021
0
0
5 -0.023	 0.162	 0.187	 0 0

#
# RAL5022 : nachtblau
# reflectance factor: 0.024
void plastic RAL5022
0
0
5 0.001	 0.025	 0.090	 0 0

#
# RAL5023 : fernblau
# reflectance factor: 0.123
void plastic RAL5023
0
0
5 0.034	 0.142	 0.257	 0 0

#
# RAL5024 : pastellblau
# reflectance factor: 0.252
void plastic RAL5024
0
0
5 0.098	 0.293	 0.417	 0 0

#
# RAL6000 : patinagrun
# reflectance factor: 0.124
void plastic RAL6000
0
0
5 0.042	 0.156	 0.127	 0 0

#
# RAL6001 : smaragdgrun
# reflectance factor: 0.087
void plastic RAL6001
0
0
5 0.034	 0.114	 0.039	 0 0

#
# RAL6002 : laubgrun
# reflectance factor: 0.069
void plastic RAL6002
0
0
5 0.028	 0.091	 0.025	 0 0

#
# RAL6003 : olivgrun
# reflectance factor: 0.071
void plastic RAL6003
0
0
5 0.064	 0.077	 0.044	 0 0

#
# RAL6004 : blaugrun
# reflectance factor: 0.036
void plastic RAL6004
0
0
5 -0.001	 0.048	 0.053	 0 0

#
# RAL6005 : moosgrun
# reflectance factor: 0.028
void plastic RAL6005
0
0
5 0.002	 0.039	 0.025	 0 0

#
# RAL6006 : grauoliv
# reflectance factor: 0.033
void plastic RAL6006
0
0
5 0.031	 0.035	 0.025	 0 0

#
# RAL6007 : flaschengrun
# reflectance factor: 0.024
void plastic RAL6007
0
0
5 0.018	 0.027	 0.015	 0 0

#
# RAL6008 : braungrun
# reflectance factor: 0.020
void plastic RAL6008
0
0
5 0.023	 0.020	 0.009	 0 0

#
# RAL6009 : tannengrun
# reflectance factor: 0.018
void plastic RAL6009
0
0
5 0.009	 0.023	 0.013	 0 0

#
# RAL6010 : grasgrun
# reflectance factor: 0.100
void plastic RAL6010
0
0
5 0.062	 0.124	 0.035	 0 0

#
# RAL6011 : resedagrun
# reflectance factor: 0.170
void plastic RAL6011
0
0
5 0.129	 0.194	 0.114	 0 0

#
# RAL6016 : turkisgrun
# reflectance factor: 0.081
void plastic RAL6016
0
0
5 -0.003	 0.114	 0.081	 0 0

#
# RAL6018 : gelbgrun
# reflectance factor: 0.219
void plastic RAL6018
0
0
5 0.116	 0.280	 0.063	 0 0

#
# RAL6019 : weissgrun
# reflectance factor: 0.551
void plastic RAL6019
0
0
5 0.417	 0.614	 0.478	 0 0

#
# RAL6021 : blassgrun
# reflectance factor: 0.289
void plastic RAL6021
0
0
5 0.226	 0.322	 0.225	 0 0

#
# RAL6024 : verkerhrsgrun
# reflectance factor: 0.135
void plastic RAL6024
0
0
5 0.025	 0.184	 0.094	 0 0

#
# RAL6032 : signalgrun
# reflectance factor: 0.130
void plastic RAL6032
0
0
5 0.022	 0.179	 0.089	 0 0

#
# RAL7000 : fehgrau
# reflectance factor: 0.228
void plastic RAL7000
0
0
5 0.161	 0.248	 0.285	 0 0

#
# RAL7001 : silbergrau
# reflectance factor: 0.300
void plastic RAL7001
0
0
5 0.229	 0.322	 0.356	 0 0

#
# RAL7004 : signalgrau
# reflectance factor: 0.310
void plastic RAL7004
0
0
5 0.264	 0.325	 0.340	 0 0

#
# RAL7011 : eisengrau
# reflectance factor: 0.092
void plastic RAL7011
0
0
5 0.068	 0.100	 0.110	 0 0

#
# RAL7012 : basaltgrau
# reflectance factor: 0.103
void plastic RAL7012
0
0
5 0.077	 0.111	 0.120	 0 0

#
# RAL7013 : braungrau
# reflectance factor: 0.072
void plastic RAL7013
0
0
5 0.074	 0.074	 0.053	 0 0

#
# RAL7015 : schiefergrau
# reflectance factor: 0.077
void plastic RAL7015
0
0
5 0.059	 0.082	 0.094	 0 0

#
# RAL7016 : anthrazietgrau
# reflectance factor: 0.040
void plastic RAL7016
0
0
5 0.027	 0.044	 0.051	 0 0

#
# RAL7021 : schwarzgrau
# reflectance factor: 0.024
void plastic RAL7021
0
0
5 0.018	 0.026	 0.029	 0 0

#
# RAL7022 : umbragrau
# reflectance factor: 0.051
void plastic RAL7022
0
0
5 0.047	 0.053	 0.048	 0 0

#
# RAL7023 : betongrau
# reflectance factor: 0.202
void plastic RAL7023
0
0
5 0.179	 0.213	 0.193	 0 0

#
# RAL7024 : graphitgrau
# reflectance factor: 0.059
void plastic RAL7024
0
0
5 0.044	 0.063	 0.073	 0 0

#
# RAL7026 : granitgrau
# reflectance factor: 0.040
void plastic RAL7026
0
0
5 0.026	 0.045	 0.050	 0 0

#
# RAL7030 : steingrau
# reflectance factor: 0.260
void plastic RAL7030
0
0
5 0.236	 0.271	 0.249	 0 0

#
# RAL7031 : blaugrau
# reflectance factor: 0.122
void plastic RAL7031
0
0
5 0.084	 0.134	 0.152	 0 0

#
# RAL7032 : kieselgrau
# reflectance factor: 0.434
void plastic RAL7032
0
0
5 0.401	 0.452	 0.390	 0 0

#
# RAL7033 : zementgrau
# reflectance factor: 0.198
void plastic RAL7033
0
0
5 0.166	 0.212	 0.185	 0 0

#
# RAL7034 : gelbgrau
# reflectance factor: 0.237
void plastic RAL7034
0
0
5 0.241	 0.244	 0.172	 0 0

#
# RAL7035 : lichtgrau
# reflectance factor: 0.551
void plastic RAL7035
0
0
5 0.465	 0.582	 0.582	 0 0

#
# RAL7036 : platingrau
# reflectance factor: 0.275
void plastic RAL7036
0
0
5 0.245	 0.285	 0.290	 0 0

#
# RAL7037 : staubgrau
# reflectance factor: 0.196
void plastic RAL7037
0
0
5 0.166	 0.206	 0.208	 0 0

#
# RAL7038 : achatgrau
# reflectance factor: 0.420
void plastic RAL7038
0
0
5 0.363	 0.443	 0.425	 0 0

#
# RAL7039 : quarzgrau
# reflectance factor: 0.136
void plastic RAL7039
0
0
5 0.126	 0.141	 0.128	 0 0

#
# RAL7040 : fenstergrau
# reflectance factor: 0.330
void plastic RAL7040
0
0
5 0.265	 0.350	 0.378	 0 0

#
# RAL7042 : verkehrsgrau_A
# reflectance factor: 0.277
void plastic RAL7042
0
0
5 0.227	 0.293	 0.305	 0 0

#
# RAL7043 : verkehrsgrau_B
# reflectance factor: 0.073
void plastic RAL7043
0
0
5 0.057	 0.078	 0.080	 0 0

#
# RAL7044 : seidengrau
# reflectance factor: 0.446
void plastic RAL7044
0
0
5 0.408	 0.464	 0.427	 0 0

#
# RAL8000 : grunbraun
# reflectance factor: 0.151
void plastic RAL8000
0
0
5 0.206	 0.141	 0.053	 0 0

#
# RAL8001 : ockerbraun
# reflectance factor: 0.167
void plastic RAL8001
0
0
5 0.282	 0.138	 0.035	 0 0

#
# RAL8002 : signalbraun
# reflectance factor: 0.088
void plastic RAL8002
0
0
5 0.147	 0.070	 0.037	 0 0

#
# RAL8003 : lehmbraun
# reflectance factor: 0.097
void plastic RAL8003
0
0
5 0.171	 0.077	 0.021	 0 0

#
# RAL8004 : kupferbraun
# reflectance factor: 0.107
void plastic RAL8004
0
0
5 0.209	 0.075	 0.032	 0 0

#
# RAL8007 : rehbraun
# reflectance factor: 0.066
void plastic RAL8007
0
0
5 0.116	 0.052	 0.016	 0 0

#
# RAL8008 : olivbraun
# reflectance factor: 0.082
void plastic RAL8008
0
0
5 0.131	 0.069	 0.023	 0 0

#
# RAL8011 : nussbraun
# reflectance factor: 0.046
void plastic RAL8011
0
0
5 0.078	 0.037	 0.016	 0 0

#
# RAL8012 : rotbraun
# reflectance factor: 0.049
void plastic RAL8012
0
0
5 0.097	 0.034	 0.019	 0 0

#
# RAL8014 : sepiabraun
# reflectance factor: 0.035
void plastic RAL8014
0
0
5 0.050	 0.031	 0.015	 0 0

#
# RAL8015 : kastanienbraun
# reflectance factor: 0.039
void plastic RAL8015
0
0
5 0.078	 0.026	 0.014	 0 0

#
# RAL8016 : mahogonibraun
# reflectance factor: 0.032
void plastic RAL8016
0
0
5 0.055	 0.025	 0.013	 0 0

#
# RAL8017 : schokoladebraun
# reflectance factor: 0.025
void plastic RAL8017
0
0
5 0.040	 0.020	 0.013	 0 0

#
# RAL8019 : graubraun
# reflectance factor: 0.028
void plastic RAL8019
0
0
5 0.029	 0.028	 0.025	 0 0

#
# RAL8022 : schwarzbraun
# reflectance factor: 0.006
void plastic RAL8022
0
0
5 0.009	 0.005	 0.005	 0 0

#
# RAL8023 : orangebraun
# reflectance factor: 0.156
void plastic RAL8023
0
0
5 0.301	 0.114	 0.031	 0 0

#
# RAL8024 : beigebraun
# reflectance factor: 0.101
void plastic RAL8024
0
0
5 0.156	 0.086	 0.045	 0 0

#
# RAL8025 : blassbraub
# reflectance factor: 0.103
void plastic RAL8025
0
0
5 0.139	 0.094	 0.061	 0 0

#
# RAL8028 : terrabraun
# reflectance factor: 0.042
void plastic RAL8028
0
0
5 0.061	 0.037	 0.019	 0 0

#
# RAL9001 : cremeweiss
# reflectance factor: 0.775
void plastic RAL9001
0
0
5 0.715	 0.803	 0.746	 0 0

#
# RAL9002 : grauweiss
# reflectance factor: 0.668
void plastic RAL9002
0
0
5 0.591	 0.700	 0.665	 0 0

#
# RAL9003 : signalweiss
# reflectance factor: 0.827
void plastic RAL9003
0
0
5 0.705	 0.868	 0.895	 0 0

#
# RAL9004 : signalschwarz
# reflectance factor: 0.011
void plastic RAL9004
0
0
5 0.011	 0.011	 0.012	 0 0

#
# RAL9005 : tefschwarz
# reflectance factor: 0.002
void plastic RAL9005
0
0
5 0.002	 0.002	 0.003	 0 0

#
# RAL9010 : reinweiss
# reflectance factor: 0.838
void plastic RAL9010
0
0
5 0.738	 0.877	 0.846	 0 0

#
# RAL9011 : graphitschwarz
# reflectance factor: 0.009
void plastic RAL9011
0
0
5 0.008	 0.009	 0.011	 0 0

#
# RAL9016 : verkehrsweiss
# reflectance factor: 0.839
void plastic RAL9016
0
0
5 0.739	 0.879	 0.846	 0 0

#
# RAL9017 : verkehrsschwarz
# reflectance factor: 0.005
void plastic RAL9017
0
0
5 0.005	 0.005	 0.005	 0 0

#
# RAL9018 : papyrusweiss
# reflectance factor: 0.600
void plastic RAL9018
0
0
5 0.502	 0.636	 0.622	 0 0



From ludo@shore.net Wed Jun 19 04:03:49 1996
Return-Path: <ludo@shore.net>
From: "Ludovico Magnocavallo" <ludo@shore.net>
To: "Radiance Mailing List" <radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Subject: new user questions
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 12:07:15 +0200
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
X-Priority: 3
Status: RO

Hi everybody,
I'm new to Radiance, and very excited by the images (architectural,
mostly) I've seen.

I have a couple of questions:

- trad spits out a ton of error messages on my machine (Linux). I have the
latest release of tcl/tk installed, and the errors appear to be related to
discontinued tcl/tk commands.
Is there any fix for that, apart from installing an old release of the
language?

- Has anybody tried writing perl scripts for rad projects
maintenance/modification/creation? Is anybody willing to start such a
project? Perl is available for most (all?) *nix systems and is, in my
opinion, an easy and powerful tool for text manipulation.

arch. Ludovico Magnocavallo
ludo@shore.net

From shankerj@orion.scr.siemens.com Wed Jun 19 06:45:02 1996
Return-Path: <shankerj@orion.scr.siemens.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 09:45:09 -0400
From: Shanker Janakiraman <shankerj@scr.siemens.com>
To: gjward@lbl.gov
Subject: subscription to radiance digest
Status: RO

Hello:
	I was subscribing to radiance digest. Since my address has changed,
can you update the mailing list with the change.
	I forget where to send the mail, hence I am sending it to you.

Thanks.

old address:
	shankerj@pptvision.com

new address:
	shankerj@scr.siemens.com

Shanker Janakiraman

From greg Wed Jun 19 11:49:05 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 96 09:05:23 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: ludo@shore.net, radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re:  new user questions
Status: RO

A new version of trad that works with Tk 4.0 is tested and ready for
distribution in the next release of Radiance (2.6).  I just need to
get my act together long enough to make the official release.  Maybe
sometime this week.

-Greg

From jadi@fago.bwk.tue.nl Mon Jun 24 02:05:39 1996
Return-Path: <jadi@fago.bwk.tue.nl>
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 11:05:18 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Jan Diepens <jadi@fago.bwk.tue.nl>
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re:  RAL colors
Status: RO


--78ee_628b-7fd3_37b3-6ea8_65b1
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X-Sun-Data-Type: text

Greg,

I didn't know of the existence off the conversion routines in the Radiance 
source but for the conversion of XYZ to rgb I have used some matlab software 
developed bij "haanpalo@lut.fi"
A copy of this software can be obtained from:

http://www.lut.fi/ltkk/tite/research/color/lutcs_readme.html#munsell_aotf.


For the XYZ values I didn't measure the spectrum myself but have used the 
publication "Farbregister RAL 841-GL"of the "Deutsches institut fur 
Gutesichering und Kennzeichnung" (see attachment 1).

Regards, Jan



--78ee_628b-7fd3_37b3-6ea8_65b1
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Content-Description: RALXYZ

RAL	Farbename	X10	Y10	Z10

1000	grunbeige	46.3	49.1	28.2
1001	beige		45.3	45.8	27.0
1002	sandgelb	43.8	43.7	19.7
1003	signalgelb	51.0	46.2	3.4
1004	goldgelb	44.3	41.2	3.6
1005	honiggelb	33.0	31.1	1.9
1006	maisgelb	42.1	37.2	2.7
1007	chromgelb	42.1	35.9	1.6
1011	braunbeige	26.1	24.5	9.7
1012	zitronengelb	45.2	45.8	7.5
1013	perlweiss	67.8	71.3	64.0
1014	elfenbein	55.4	57.4	37.1
1015	hellelfenbein	65.2	67.8	53.7
1016	schwefelgelb	62.0	70.2	13.5
1017	safrangelb	52.1	46.9	11.7
1018	zinkgelb	62.1	63.7	11.2
1019	graubeige	28.8	29.1	21.3
1020	olivgelb	27.0	28.2	14.9
1021	kadmiumgelb	53.3	52.0	2.7
1023	verkehrsgelb	55.2	53.9	3.8
1024	okergelb	31.0	30.3	10.1
1027	currygelb	23.3	23.3	2.9
1028	melongelb	55.5	46.7	1.9
1032	ginstergelb	43.0	41.1	4.4
1033	dahliengelb	50.1	43.3	4.8
1034	pastellgelb	47.4	41.7	11.7
2000	gelborange	35.0	26.5	1.7
2001	rotorange	23.6	15.6	2.1
2002	blutorange	22.6	13.2	1.4
2003	pastellorange	43.7	32.0	5.1
2004	reinorange	35.1	22.7	1.6
2008	hellrotorange	40.4	28.6	3.2
2009	verkehrsorange	33.1	21.6	1.6
2010	signalorange	29.0	19.9	2.1
2011	tieforange	39.6	29.4	3.5
2012	lachsorange	32.4	22.7	7.6
3000	feuerrot	16.8	9.7	2.0
3001	signalrot	13.9	7.4	0.8
3002	karminrot	13.9	7.5	1.2
3004	purperrot	6.1	3.3	1.0
3005	weinrot		4.1	2.3	1.0
3007	schwarzrot	2.3	1.6	1.1
3009	oxidrot		6.9	4.8	1.9
3011	braunrot	8.1	4.5	0.8
3012	beigerot	34.4	29.8	17.9
3013	tomatenrot	13.6	8.0	1.5
3014	altrosa		33.4	25.6	19.2
3015	hellrosa	48.3	42.4	40.6
3016	korallenrot	17.0	10.5	2.1
3017	rose		29.6	19.5	11.4
3018	erdbeerrot	26.8	16.1	7.5
3020	verkehrsrot	19.8	10.5	0.8
3022	lachsrot	32.0	23.4	10.0
3027	himbeerrot	18.3	9.9	4.5
3031	orientrot	16.7	9.9	3.9
4001	rotlila		17.2	14.5	22.0
4002	rotviolett	13.6	8.9	6.8
4003	erikaviolett	32.4	22.3	27.9
4004	bordeauxviolett	6.2	3.3	3.1
4005	blaulila	18.4	16.1	31.9
4006	verkehrspurper	15.4	9.1	16.0
4007	purperviolett	3.5	2.3	3.4
4008	signalviolett	16.3	11.3	22.1
4009	pastellviolett	26.9	25.6	29.0
5000	violettblau	6.1	6.6	15.5
5001	grunblau	6.1	6.6	15.5
5002	ultramarinblau	4.3	3.6	15.5
5003	saphirblau	2.5	2.6	8.5
5004	schwarzblau	0.6	0.6	1.4
5005	signalblau	5.1	5.9	22.9
5007	brillantblau	10.0	11.3	24.7
5008	graublau	2.9	3.2	4.9
5009	azurblau	7.0	8.6	18.0
5010	enzianblau	4.7	5.4	19.3
5011	stahlblau	1.2	1.3	3.6
5012	lichtblau	16.4	19.9	46.7
5013	kobaltblau	2.4	2.3	7.8
5014	taubenblau	17.1	18.5	30.0
5015	himmelblau	12.9	15.9	40.8
5017	verkehrsblau	5.7	7.4	25.3
5018	turkisblau	13.7	20.0	27.9
5019	capriblau	6.4	8.3	22.2
5020	ozeanblau	1.7	3.0	6.1
5021	wasserblau	7.6	12.9	18.7
5022	nachtblau	2.6	2.1	8.9
5023	fernblau	11.2	12.4	25.6
5024	pastellblau	22.2	25.9	41.6
6000	patinagrun	9.4	13.5	12.7
6001	smaragdgrun	6.0	9.9	4.0
6002	laubgrun	4.7	7.9	2.6
6003	olivgrun	6.4	7.4	4.4
6004	blaugrun	2.5	3.9	5.3
6005	moosgrun	1.8	3.2	2.5
6006	grauoliv	3.1	3.4	2.5
6007	flaschengrun	2.0	2.5	1.5
6008	braungrun	1.9	2.0	0.9
6009	tannengrun	1.4	2.0	1.3
6010	grasgrun	7.6	11.2	3.6
6011	resedagrun	14.6	18.1	11.5
6016	turkisgrun	5.0	9.3	8.1
6018	gelbgrun	15.6	24.8	6.5
6019	weissgrun	49.0	57.7	47.9
6021	blassgrun	25.5	30.3	22.6	
6024	verkerhrsgrun	8.8	15.5	9.5
6032	signalgrun	8.4	15.0	9.0
7000	fehgrau		21.3	23.3	28.5
7001	silbergrau	28.3	30.5	35.6
7004	signalgrau	29.8	31.4	34.0
7011	eisengrau	8.6	9.4	11.0
7012	basaltgrau	9.6	10.5	12.0
7013	braungrau	7.0	7.4	5.3
7015	schiefergrau	7.3	7.8	9.4
7016	anthrazietgrau	3.7	4.1	5.1
7021	schwarzgrau	2.3	2.5	2.9
7022	umbragrau	4.9	5.2	4.8
7023	betongrau	19.2	20.6	19.3
7024	graphitgrau	5.6	6.0	7.3
7026	granitgrau	3.7	4.2	5.0
7030	steingrau	24.9	26.4	24.9
7031	blaugrau	11.3	12.5	15.2
7032	kieselgrau	41.4	44.1	39.1
7033	zementgrau	18.4	20.3	18.5
7034	gelbgrau	22.8	24.2	17.3
7035	lichtgrau	52.4	56.0	58.2
7036	platingrau	26.6	27.7	29.0
7037	staubgrau	18.7	19.9	20.8
7038	achatgrau	40.0	42.8	42.5
7039	quarzgrau	13.1	13.8	12.8
7040	fenstergrau	31.4	33.5	37.8
7042	verkehrsgrau_A	26.3	28.1	30.5
7043	verkehrsgrau_B	6.8	7.4	8.0
7044	seidengrau	42.9	45.3	42.7
8000	grunbraun	15.5	15.1	5.4
8001	ockerbraun	18.8	16.2	3.6
8002	signalbraun	10.1	8.3	3.7
8003	lehmbraun	11.2	9.3	2.2
8004	kupferbraun	13.2	9.8	3.2
8007	rehbraun	7.6	6.3	1.6
8008	olivbraun	9.0	7.9	2.3
8011	nussbraun	5.3	4.4	1.6
8012	rotbraun	6.2	4.5	1.9
8014	sepiabraun	3.7	3.4	1.5
8015	kastanienbraun	4.9	3.5	1.4
8016	mahogonibraun	3.7	3.0	1.3
8017	schokoladebraun	2.8	2.3	1.3
8019	graubraun	2.8	2.8	2.5
8022	schwarzbraun	0.7	0.6	0.5
8023	orangebraun	18.9	14.6	3.2
8024	beigebraun	11.2	9.8	4.5
8025	blassbraub	10.9	10.1	6.1
8028	terrabraun	4.5	4.1	1.9
9001	cremeweiss	74.8	78.5	74.7
9002	grauweiss	63.9	67.9	66.5
9003	signalweiss	79.3	83.8	89.5
9004	signalschwarz	1.1	1.1	1.2
9005	tefschwarz	0.2	0.2	0.3
9010	reinweiss	80.2	85.0	84.6
9011	graphitschwarz	0.9	0.9	1.1
9016	verkehrsweiss	80.3	85.2	84.6
9017	verkehrsschwarz	0.5	0.5	0.5
9018	papyrusweiss	56.7	61.1	62.2
--78ee_628b-7fd3_37b3-6ea8_65b1--

From greg Mon Jun 24 11:12:16 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 96 10:44:11 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: radiance-discuss
Subject: Radiance mail from Georg Mischler
Status: RO

We've been having trouble with your discussion group mailing list and some
mailers, so I suggest if you want to play it safe, that you send your post
to me and I'll forward it to the group.

-Greg

+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Radiance Discussion Group mailing list:  radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov  |
| Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to:    radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov  |
| Archives available from:                 ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+

>From gm@hl-technik.de Fri Jun 21 01:02:50 1996
Return-Path: <gm@hl-technik.de>
From: "Georg Mischler" <gm@hl-technik.de>
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 06:45:00 -0200
Subject: Re: discussion group mailing
X-Gateway: iGate, (GroupWise) vers 4.04o - 1082
Status: RO


> Did you send something to the discussion group?  My mailer has been going
> nuts for the past few days with connections from your machine, apparently
> attempting to post mail to radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov.  Can you
> send me the mail you meant to post and somehow kill your queued mail
> job on your end?

Hi Greg,

indeed, my message bounced by now with a "User unknown" error, though I'm
pretty sure that my alias is correct. Unfortunately there was no transscript
included in the bounce to verify ...

Anyway, here goes my message to the list. It wouldn*t surprise me if you
wanted to comment on it anyway.

thanks a lot

Georg

------
Re: new user question

Ludovico Magnocavallo wrote:

> - trad spits out a ton of error messages on my machine (Linux). I have the
> latest release of tcl/tk installed, and the errors appear to be related to
> discontinued tcl/tk commands.
> Is there any fix for that, apart from installing an old release of the
> language?

> - Has anybody tried writing perl scripts for rad projects
> maintenance/modification/creation? Is anybody willing to start such a
> project? Perl is available for most (all?) *nix systems and is, in my
> opinion, an easy and powerful tool for text manipulation.

Hi Ludovico

As far as I know, everybody who is using trad does have an old tcl/tk
version installed.

Your second question looks more interesting to me. Being a new radiance
user, you may not be familiar with the history of the
torad/radout/ddrad family of programs.  I am currently trying to bring
the ddrad autocad to radiance translator and user interface into a
sufficiently stable state to release it to the general public.  This
project probably already covers many of the features you'd like to see
in a perl based system. However, it is currently based on
ADS/autolisp/DCL, and therefore can't be used without running autocad.

One reason I am pressing to get a release of ddrad out as soon as
possible is that I have decided to change the  strategy behind it.  My
new goal (though not coordinated with the other project contributers
yet) is to move all modules that don't depend on autocad by nature
(which is geometry and view export etc.) away from autolisp.  In the
end there should be a graphical user interface to radiance which can be
used standalone *or* as a part of ddrad.  The language I am considering
though is not perl, but python. This may be a philosophical decision,
but I have come to like python by using it in a very short time.

Phyton is a hybrid object oriented, interpreted language, which runs on
every unix system, as well as on dos/win and the mac. It has interfaces
to gui systems (most importantly tk), with implementations available
for non unix platforms too.  It a little bit slower than perl (while
still a lot faster than tcl), but on the other hand the object oriented
concepts are integrated into the language design from the beginning,
and it is much more powerful in the nunerical area.  I have allready
written a working radiance material file parser in python, and I intend
to do more in that direction. Of course I would be glad to see more
participants to this project, in additions to those that have allready
contributed significant parts.  You may or may not be happy with my
choice of python... but I recommend that you at least have a look at it
(http://www.python.org/). Let me know what you think.

Now that I have publicly promised to release ddrad ...:  I hope it will
happen before the end of this year. I have suggested a feature freeze
to myself, just to get it out. Many of the concepts I have talked about
earlier (or was that only in a smaller circle?) will not be implemented
in lisp anymore, but those that are allready there are still nice
enough to make it worth the effort.  Watch this list for further
announcements (there will be a related web site soon).


Hope I explained more than I confused anyone ...

Georg



Georg Mischler   \ /   HL-Technik AG, Lichtplanung   T:
+49-89/72406-315
Daylighting &&  - o -  Wolfratshauser  Strasse  56   F:
+49-89/72406-309
&& Simulations   / \   D - 81379 Muenchen, Germany   E:
gm@hl-technik.de



From Neil.Sinclair@bae.co.uk Tue Jun 25 02:06:00 1996
Return-Path: <Neil.Sinclair@bae.co.uk>
Mr-Received: by mta WDTCV3; Relayed; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 10:06:59 +0000
Mr-Received: by mta HQX400; Relayed; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 10:04:11 +0000
Alternate-Recipient: prohibited
Disclose-Recipients: prohibited
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 10:02:00 +0000 (GMT)
From: "Neil Sinclair (0161) 955-" <Neil.Sinclair@bae.co.uk>
Subject: Radiance Mailing List.
To: gjward@lbl.gov
Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 10:06:00 +0000 (GMT)
Importance: high
Priority: urgent
X400-Mts-Identifier: [;95600152606991/199209@WDNACA]
A1-Type: MAIL
Hop-Count: 2
Status: RO

Hi,
   I have just downloaded Radiance and would grateful if you could add me to
   the mailing list.

   Thanks 

   Neil Sinclair 
   

From shadap@teil.soft.net Tue Jun 25 03:57:58 1996
Return-Path: <shadap@teil.soft.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 15:51:39 -0800 (PST)
From: "Sunil S. Hadap" <shadap@teil.soft.net>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Status: RO

Dear Radiance Lover,

   I am trying to use radiance for the purpose of lighting calculations
for architectural walkthroghs. Following is my work flow.

   o I use MultiGen and Alias for modeling the scene.
   o I intend to use Radiance for the pre-processing of the model for
ralistic lighting calculations. O/P expected is texture maps for the walls
and probably all the polys in the scene.
   o Use Performer and Vega for the actual walkthroughs.

   Many of the lighting application (say like Lightscape's) can give o/p
which can be read by performer directly by means of the loaders provided.
Are there any such loaders for Radiance. If not I will be interested in
developing one for which I need to know little bit more about how Radince
can give the Lighthing o/p for the full scene and not just in perticular
direction.


Thanking You

Sunil Hadap
                      o------------------------------o
                     / COMPUTER GRAPHICS HAPPENS HERE \
o-------------------o-----------------o----------------o----------------------o
| Sunil Sharadchandra Hadap           |                                       |
| TATA ELXSI (INDIA) LTD.             |                                       |
| Whitefield Road, Mahadevpura Post,  | 2363, 2nd Cross, HAL 3rd,             |
| Hoody, Bangalore - 560 048 - INDIA  | Konena Agrahara, Vimanpura Post,      |
| Tel   : 91-80-8452016 / 8452017     | Bangalore-17                          |
| E_mail: shadap@teil.soft.net        |                                       |
| Time  : 9.30 AM to 6.00 PM (INDIA)  |                                       |
o-------------------------------------o---------------------------------------o



From greg Tue Jun 25 10:21:35 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 96 09:58:26 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov, shadap@teil.soft.net
Subject: Radiance and Performer
Cc: burr@stobart.coryphaeus.com
Status: RO

> From shadap@teil.soft.net Tue Jun 25 03:57:58 1996
> 
>    Many of the lighting application (say like Lightscape's) can give o/p
> which can be read by performer directly by means of the loaders provided.
> Are there any such loaders for Radiance. If not I will be interested in
> developing one for which I need to know little bit more about how Radince
> can give the Lighthing o/p for the full scene and not just in perticular
> direction.

I have heard a number of requests for such a feature from various people,
and a few have even had some success implementing such a thing.  Tim Burr
at Coryphaeus software, for one.  It is possible to compute irradiance
values or even texture maps for surfaces, though you will find yourself
running out of texture memory quickly if you attempt to do this for all
your scene surfaces.

I believe Lightscape combines simple, repeated texture maps with vertex
radiosities in its Performer/VRML output.  This makes good use of memory
while providing a fairly realistic, interactive display.  Unfortunately,
since Radiance has a very different notion of texture from most rendering
hardware, extracting such information would be difficult.

What you can do, is compute vertex irradiance values (assuming you have
a polygonal scene) using rtrace with the -I option.  These can then be
combined with your translated scene geometry as input to Performer.  The
easiest way to go about this, I think, is to open a pipe to rtrace within
your translator program, and send it vertex coordinates and normals so you
can read back RGB irradiance values.  By multiplying these values by each
surface's diffuse reflection, you get vertex radiosity, suitable for Gouraud
shading.

-Greg

From greg Thu Jun 27 10:41:19 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 96 10:40:39 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net
Subject: mailer craziness
Status: RO

I think you posted something to the Radiance discussion group
(radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov), but your mailer is just going
crazy talking to my mailer, so perhaps you should send it to me
instead, so I can post it to the group once things die down.
If you know who to talk to on your system, you might also ask
him or her to remove your old mail from the queue so my machine
can do something else for awhile.

Thanks.
-Greg

From stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net Thu Jun 27 12:17:29 1996
Return-Path: <stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net>
Reply-To: Stephen Benson <stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net>
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 19:55:06
Subject: Re: mailer craziness
From: Stephen Benson <stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net>
Status: RO

 
>I think you posted something to the Radiance discussion group
>(radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov), but your mailer is just going
>crazy talking to my mailer, so perhaps you should send it to me
>instead, so I can post it to the group once things die down.
>If you know who to talk to on your system, you might also ask
>him or her to remove your old mail from the queue so my machine
>can do something else for awhile.

I've asked them to sort it out, so hopefully they will. If it gets
desperate, these are they: help@ibmpcug.co.uk and jake@pcug.co.uk

Here's my post; as to working it out, it's more I'm too busy than
lazy. 

>
> 
>This cropped up on the Lightwave newsgroup, and I thought I'd
>request some tips here too: 
>
>>If you already have a computational model of the light transmitted by
>>the cloud, you can use its output to create a sequence of transparency
>>(opacity) maps that can be used as either a foreground alpha channel or
>>a transparency texture on a plane in front of the camera.
>>
>>If you're *looking for* a computational model, I wouldn't necessarily
>>trust any 3D image software to give you a believable answer, although
>>you might consider looking at povray, the source for which is at least
>>available for examination.
>
>I think Radiance -- http://radsite.lbl.gov/radiance/home.html --
>will do this and I'd love to try, but I'd need more detail on the
>process of using the info to create the maps. Can anyone help? It's
>a while since I used Radiance, so any help would be appreciated.
>
>


From stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net Thu Jun 27 10:53:30 1996
Return-Path: <stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net>
Reply-To: Stephen Benson <stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Cc: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 10:22:59
Subject: Re: Faking Volumetric Lights
From: Stephen Benson <stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net>
Status: RO

 
This cropped up on the Lightwave newsgroup, and I thought I'd
request some tips here too: 

>If you already have a computational model of the light transmitted by
>the cloud, you can use its output to create a sequence of transparency
>(opacity) maps that can be used as either a foreground alpha channel or
>a transparency texture on a plane in front of the camera.
>
>If you're *looking for* a computational model, I wouldn't necessarily
>trust any 3D image software to give you a believable answer, although
>you might consider looking at povray, the source for which is at least
>available for examination.

I think Radiance -- http://radsite.lbl.gov/radiance/home.html --
will do this and I'd love to try, but I'd need more detail on the
process of using the info to create the maps. Can anyone help? It's
a while since I used Radiance, so any help would be appreciated.



From eslinger@CERF.NET Mon Jul  8 21:50:45 1996
Return-Path: <eslinger@CERF.NET>
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 21:50:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: "George A. Eslinger" <eslinger@CERF.NET>
To: "Gregory J. Ward" <greg@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Subject: Re: subscribe
Status: RO

Gregory -
	Following your advice, and in order to learn more about 
'radiance' as a resource please subscribe me to both lists...
	Thanks.....

George A. Eslinger Director, Bureau of Street Lighting 
City of Los Angeles  Phone: 213-847-6401, FAX: 213-847-5405  
E-mail:  eslinger@cerf.net   or   geslinger@bsl.ci.la.ca.us
WWW (World Wide Web): http://www.ci.la.ca.us/Department/bsl/

On Mon, 8 Jul 1996, Gregory J. Ward wrote:

> Re:  Radiance mailing list subscription request
> 
> Subscribe to which list?  The moderated announcement and digest mailing list,
> or the unmoderated discussion group?  Usually people subscribe either to
> the announcement list only, or to both lists.
> 
> -Greg
> 

From steinle_k@NTU.EDU.AU Sun Jul 14 21:59:03 1996
Return-Path: <steinle_k@NTU.EDU.AU>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 14:14:02 -0700
From: Kim Steinle <steinle_k@NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Radiance Discussion Group
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Organization: Northern Territory University
X-Url: http://www.nscee.edu/unlv/Libraries/arch/rsrce/webrsrce/sect2.html#2.0
Status: RO

Would you please consider me for inclusion on the Radiance Discussion 
Group? My details are as follows:

Name : 		Kim R. Steinle

Qualifications:	B. Arch. [Hons] Dip.Tech.Planning

Position:	Lecturer [Architecture & Planning]

Work:		School of the Built Environment
		Faculty of Technology
		Northern Territory University

Postal Address:	School of the Built Environment
		Faculty of Technology
		Northern Territory University
		DARWIN  NT  0909

email Address:	kim.steinle@ntu.edu.au

From dawsonas@phoenix.net Wed Jul 17 11:44:58 1996
Return-Path: <dawsonas@phoenix.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 18:43:04 -0500
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: dawsonas@phoenix.net (Randy Dawson)
Subject: 
Status: RO

subscribe moderated
subscribe digest


From sabine@macsi.ut.tu-berlin.de Sat Jul 20 16:06:44 1996
Return-Path: <sabine@macsi.ut.tu-berlin.de>
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 23:05:45 GMT
From: Sabine <sabine@macsi.ut.tu-berlin.de>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: subscribe
Status: RO

I wish to subscribe to the Radiance discussion list.

Sabine Wolf

I study architekture and do a lot of work in visualisation and animation 
of architecture.
My first real use of radiance was pictures for a urban development project.
I modelled it in Softimage and converted it via the Wavefront format.
It looks much better than a softimage rendering.

From isaack@brush.bre.co.uk Thu Aug  8 00:56:02 1996
Return-Path: <isaack@brush.bre.co.uk>
Sender: isaack@brush.bre.co.uk
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 08:50:40 EDT
From: isaack@bre.co.uk
Reply-To: isaack@brush.bre.co.uk
To: RADIANCE-REQUEST@HOBBES.lbl.gov
Subject: Subscribe
Status: RO


Please subscribe me at both my E-Mail addresses

ISAACK@BRE.CO.UK

me93kai@brunel.ac.uk

Cheers

Kelvin


          Date:     08-Aug-1996 08:50am
          From:     Kelvin Isaac
                    ISAACK
          Tel No:   (01923) 664871
          Subject: Subscribe


From jeremy@picasso.ece.curtin.edu.au Fri Aug 30 23:24:05 1996
Return-Path: <jeremy@picasso.ece.curtin.edu.au>
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 14:29:29 +0800
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: jeremy@picasso.ece.curtin.edu.au (jeremy)
Subject: CD-Rom
Status: RO

Dear Radiance users,

                   After being on this list for so long, I think this is
one of my very few posts so far. I don't have much time to have fun with
radiance, but when I do I can see how far advanced this rendering software
is over most packages I've encountered.

                   Anyway, we have a project going here at our University
(Curtin University of Technology Perth, Western Australia.), whereby we are
producing a cd-rom displaying digital artwork / multi-media work, including
a great deal of 3D work.

                   Most of this work has come from all across Australia,
but if anyone has images/quicktimes/mpegs/QTVR etc done in Radiance (or
otherwise), and would like them included on the cd, we would be extremely
happy to include them.

                   We're not charging anything for space, the cd is being
made because we love what we do and want to show it off. But there is one
catch!... the cd is being pressed on Monday the 2nd, that's right in two
days!.

                   So if you're at all interested we have a website for
your information (http://house.curtin.edu.au/ - best viewed with quicktime
and shockwave plug-ins). There is a form that needs to be filled out before
we accept any work - house.curtin.edu.au/submit.html. It's only short and
explains that you retain all copyright on your work.

                   The cd is being brokered by a large multimedia company
here in Perth, IMAGO Multimedia Centre and cd purchasing information will
eventually be obtainable via their website (http://www.imago.com.au/).

                   The project is also backed by Headus Metamorphosis, who
run the Cyberware scanner here in Perth, and who you may have bumped into
recently at SIGGRAPH. The cd will be distributed across Australia and
overseas depending on demand.

                   Files can be transferred to our ftp site (134.7.138.44
/pub/incoming/) or emailed to myself.
                  
                   I hope some of you can contribute, Radiance really is an
excellent product.


-jeremy

--------------------------------------
                  jeremy@picasso.ece.curtin.edu.au   
                      http://www.ece.curtin.edu.au/~jeremy/
                          b.h. ph: +61-9-351-2316
                              a.h. ph: +61-9-385-0608
                                  fax: 351 2971
--------------------------------------



From imolloy@aoife.indigo.ie Sat Aug 31 02:15:19 1996
Return-Path: <imolloy@aoife.indigo.ie>
Sender: <imolloy@indigo.ie>
From: "Ian Molloy" <imolloy@indigo.ie>
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward)
Date:          Sat, 31 Aug 1996 10:16:42 +0000
Subject:       Re: which list?
Reply-To: imolloy@indigo.ie
Priority: normal
Status: RO

Dear Greg,
Please subscribe me to both the moderated announcement and digest mailing 
list and the unmoderated discussion group. I was unaware of the two, 
however Im sure they will both help me with my project work.
Many Thanks, and keep up the good work,
Regards,
Ian Molloy
Dublin Institute of Technology

From greg Thu Sep  5 11:12:51 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 96 10:45:50 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc.list
Subject: Radiance discussion group mailing
Status: RO

As usual, write to "radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov" if you wish to be
removed from this list.

>From u2126609@keystone.arch.unsw.EDU.AU Wed Sep  4 18:05:41 1996
Return-Path: <u2126609@keystone.arch.unsw.EDU.AU>
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 11:03:50 +1000
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: Mwaniki Wa-Gichia <u2126609@keystone.arch.unsw.EDU.AU>
Subject: rtrace calculations
Status: RO

Dear Radiance users,

I am using Radiance for the calculation of illuminance in room interiors
under clear sunny sky conditions. There is reflection of sunlight off
surrounding buildings. 

Are there any suggestions of the value of the -ab (ambient divisions) option
to use in "rtrace",  for a realistic illuminance calculation?

Thanks,

Mwaniki wa-Gichia,
University of New South Wales,
School of Architecture,
Sydney.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just to throw in my 2 cents worth, I recommend using your own judgement as
to how many bounces are needed to get an accurate calculation.  In general,
the answer depends on how the light is getting into the space, as well as
the reflectance values of the various surfaces.  If you use the rad or trad
programs as you should, the -ab setting is proportional to the setting of
the INDIRECT variable, which is the number of bounces before light reaches
the surfaces of interest in most cases.  Quoting the help file from trad:

	The "Indirect" setting indicates how important indirect
	illumination is in this space.  A setting of "0" means that
	most light falls directly on visible surfaces, and this setting
	can be used in most cases.  A setting of "1" means that most
	objects are not directly illuminated by light sources, but
	receive light only after it has bounced once off some other
	surface, such as the ceiling.  Likewise, a setting of "2" means
	that light must reflect twice off other surfaces before
	reaching most objects of interest.

	Keep in mind that the rendering calculation increases
	substantially with each increment to this variable, so it is a
	good idea to use the smallest reasonable value.

-Greg

From dxs@diac.com Tue Sep 17 10:00:50 1996
Return-Path: <dxs@diac.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 17:01:07 GMT
From: Dan Stanger <dxs@diac.com>
To: <greg@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Status: RO

i would like to subscribe to both lists.
thanks,
dan.stanger@internut.com
>From greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Tue Sep 17 16:52 GMT 1996
Return-path: <greg@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Received: from lbl.gov (lbl.gov [128.3.254.23]) by diac.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA16407 for <dxs@november.diac.com>; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 16:52:08 GMT
Received: from hobbes.lbl.gov by lbl.gov (4.1/1.39)
	id AA13499; Tue, 17 Sep 96 09:51:21 PDT
Received: by hobbes.lbl.gov (3.2/SMI-3.2)
	id AA08841; Tue, 17 Sep 96 09:50:43 PDT
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 96 09:50:43 PDT
From: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward)
Content-Length: 319
Content-Type: text/plain
Message-ID: <9609171650.AA08841@hobbes.lbl.gov>
To: dxs@november.diac.com
Subject: subscription help

Hi Dan,

There are two Radiance mailing lists, the moderated announcement and
digest mailing list, and the unmoderated discussion group.  Usually
people subscribe either to the announcement list only, or to both
lists.  I answer these mails, so just write a short note saying which
one(s) you want to subscribe.

-Greg


From greg Thu Sep 19 10:00:51 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 96 09:35:57 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc.list
Subject: VRML -> Radiance translators
Status: RO

Does anyone have any experience writing translators from VRML, who might
be interested in writing one into Radiance?

(As usual, please write to "radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov" to unsubscribe
from this mailing list.)

------------------------------------
>From th@prosun.first.gmd.de Thu Sep 19 08:29:56 1996
Return-Path: <th@prosun.first.gmd.de>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 96 17:29:37 +0200
From: th@prosun.first.gmd.de (Tobias Harke)
To: GJWard@lbl.gov
Subject: Radiance Group
Status: RO


Dear Mr. Ward,

we are trying to incorporate the Radiance 3.0 rackage into a 
hybrid, speed-adaptive visualisation-system for 
architectural planning.

Thatfor we have the neeed for a conversion of 

3DStudio-Max -> VRML 2.0 -> Radiance - files

which disables the elseway possible workaround
of importing 3ds[max] -> mgf -> radiance coming up whith
the mgflib-distribution (3ds2mgf | mgf2rad, while losing
some texture information, but possibly already while 
exporting *.3ds whith 3dsmax, and raytracing simple-colored
cubes isn't much visual fun)
Maybe we'll try to extend VRML 2.0 by some additional 
texture and material Prototypes which are ignored unless
HQ-rendering is required.

Maybe you would forward this to the radiance discussion-
group for helpful comments to the topic. 

Moreover I would like to subscribe to the Radiance- 
discussion-group as well as to the mailing list if you 
would add me to the list.

Thank you in advance,

Tobias

---------------------------------------------------------
Tobias Harke                | E-mail: Tobias.Harke@gmd.de
---------------------------------------------------------





From @explorer.dgp.toronto.edu:guo@dgp.toronto.edu Mon Sep 23 10:16:37 1996
Return-Path: <@explorer.dgp.toronto.edu:guo@dgp.toronto.edu>
From: Baining Guo <guo@dgp.toronto.edu>
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re:  Radiance digest
Date: 	Mon, 23 Sep 1996 13:15:33 -0400
Status: R


>OK, I've subscribed you to the Radiance digest and announcement list.

Thanks,

>Did you also wish to subscribe to the unmoderated discussion group list?

Sure.

By the way,  I really enjoy using Radiance !

-Baining

From paulg@teleport.com Mon Sep 23 23:24:11 1996
Return-Path: <paulg@teleport.com>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <paulg@pop.teleport.com>
From: "Paul Garceau" <paulg@teleport.com>
Organization: Paul Garceau
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 22:57:53 -800
Subject: Radiance discussion
Reply-To: paulg@teleport.com
Priority: normal
Status: R

I wish to subscribe to the Radiance discussion group.


Nothing real can be threatened.
    Nothing unreal exists.

From greg Wed Sep 25 10:25:44 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 96 09:57:56 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: greg, raydisc.list
Subject: wood texture and other Radiance questions
Status: R


Here is a posting to the Radiance discussion group from Terry Ridder.
Write to Terry directly if you want to keep it private at:

	terrylr@interaccess.com

If you wish to discuss this in public, e-mail your response to:

	radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov

If you wish to unsubscribe to this list or make other comments, e-mail to:

	radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov

I have attached my 2 cents to the end of this message.
-Greg

-------------
>From terrylr@interaccess.com Tue Sep 24 19:49:34 1996
Return-Path: <terrylr@interaccess.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:00:56 -0500
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: terrylr@interaccess.com (Terry L. Ridder)
Subject: wood texture

Hello Fellow Radiance users;

I have a few questions:

Question 1.
Is there anyone out there who is able to explain how to use woodtex.cal?

Question 2.
While helping my daughter solve a TrueSpace2 problem, I noticed that
Caligari had the file format sepcifications online. My daughter has
asked me to write her a truespace2 to radiance translator. Is anyone
else out there using truespace2 to model Radaince scenes? Wrting software
for my daughter is one matter, writing software for the "masses" is a different
matter.

Question 3.
Would anyone know who wrote the fuzztile.oct file in the texture directory?
Would anyone know if the "rad" file is available for viewing?

Question 4.
My daughter, a Graphics Arts major, would like Lightwave for Christmas. ;-)
What arguments should I use to convince her that Radiance is just as good
if not better than Lightwave?

Thank you in advance for any and all help.


Terry L. Ridder
Blue Danube Software
"We don't write software, we compose it."

And every hour of every day I 'm learning more
the more I learn, the less I know about before
the less I know, the more I want to look around
digging deep for clues on higher ground.
-- Higher Ground-- UB40

------------- [The following is from Greg Ward]:

1) The woodtex.cal file was written long ago, and intended for generating
a woodgrain texture (roughness) on a surface, as opposed to a pattern, which
may be generated by woodpat.cal.  To apply the texture along the x-axis, use:

	void texfunc woodtextureX
	4 xgrain_dx xgrain_dy xgrain_dz woodtex.cal
	0
	1 0.5

The roughness value (0.5 above) can be varied up or down to get more or less
texture, and the size of the woodgrain can be varied by adding a scaling
factor (-s factor) to the string arguments.

For a woodgrain pattern, use woodpat.cal like so:

	void brightfunc woodpatX
	2 xgrain woodpat.cal
	0
	1 0.5

Again, the magnitude (variation) of the pattern can be changed from 0.5,
and the grain size varied with a scaling factor.  A pattern may also be
combined with a texture by stringing the primitives together, i.e. using
the first as the modifier for the next.

3) Since I'm the only one likely to know this, I should say that Isaac
Kuo is the author of the tennis ball fuzz.  Assuming he won't mind, I have
put his code in the file /xfer/tennis.tar.Z on hobbes.lbl.gov for anyone
who is interested to pick up.  It unpacks to a directory, where a simple
make command should rebuild fuzztile and the tennis ball.  I was very
impressed by this high school student's work, and I presume he has gone on
to much bigger and better things....

-Greg


From greg Thu Sep 26 10:12:30 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 96 09:45:34 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc.list
Subject: Two more Radiance postings
Status: R

Here are two more postings to the Radiance discussion group.  Again, reply
to the individual authors if you want to keep it private, or write to

	radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov

to join in the community discussion.  Unsubscribe messages should go to

	radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov

-Greg
------------
>From paulg@teleport.com Thu Sep 26 00:07:47 1996
Return-Path: <paulg@teleport.com>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <paulg@mail.teleport.com>
From: "Paul Garceau" <paulg@teleport.com>
Organization: Paul Garceau
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 00:12:38 -800
Subject: Self Introduction w/questions
Reply-To: paulg@teleport.com
Priority: normal
Status: RO

Hi folks,

	I was wanting to find out what usenet groups people on this list
frequent.  I am also working on bringing up a cad/cam package (sced) to
generate my initial pictures.  I understand that sced has a conversion
capability for Radiance.

	Also, does anyone on this list use Linux besides myself?

  Thanks for your comments and responses.

   Peace,

    Paul G.


Nothing real can be threatened.
    Nothing unreal exists.


Nothing real can be threatened.
    Nothing unreal exists.

>From jean@aleph.afuu.fr Thu Sep 26 01:15:55 1996
Return-Path: <jean@aleph.afuu.fr>
Sender: jean@fnet.fr
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:17:40 +0200
From: Jean Brange <jean@aleph.afuu.fr>
Organization: ETNA
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re: wood texture and other Radiance questions
Status: RO

Hi Terry and others...

About Radiance vs other high end rendering packages.

I want to say that IMHO Radiance as a simple unix bunch of application
gives you much more power for producing your work.

IE: I took me one night to implement an animation module in a CAD
software (ARRIS) which would produce all the datas for rpict and
pinterp. Then another night (while computing the first path on a sparc
serevr) to implement a unix dispatcher which execute a single batch file
on any numbers of machine in a network: result: computing of the same
path on 6 IPX and a sparc5 was faster than on a 4 processors Sparcserver
(not optimized for rpict :( 

We used this to produce a 3 minutes video film in two days and three
nights at 3 people. (we didn't sleep much!). Bt we are sure that this
was really much much ,much faster than using Integra for the same job
(we estimate to 2 weeks the computing time needed with integra)

the fact that radiance is free software is also very important: you can
have as many concurent process of rpict running on as many machines you
can get at the same time for the same cost: free!

Hope this will convince your daughter.

Jean.


From stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net Thu Sep 26 11:38:14 1996
Return-Path: <stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net>
Reply-To: Stephen Benson <stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net>
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
Cc: terrylr@interaccess.com
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:11:45
Subject: Re: wood texture and other Radiance questions
From: Stephen Benson <stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net>
Status: RO

 
>If you wish to discuss this in public, e-mail your response to:
>
>       radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
>

I'm sure I'm not alone in appreciating a summary of any 
tips/discussion. 

>Question 4.
>My daughter, a Graphics Arts major, would like Lightwave for Christmas. ;-)
>What arguments should I use to convince her that Radiance is just as good
>if not better than Lightwave?
>

None really. They have different aims, advantages and costs (and
OSs). If she wants to get into a fast productive
industry-standard(ish) environment, and for a reasonable price, get
LW. Then translate some scenes to Radiance as you wish, for that
distributed/global RT etc, and to really learn about what's going
on. And about unix (for the day Alias or SoftImahge floats into
view). IMHO, of course.

--
stephen benson     
stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net               http://www.ibmpcug.co.uk/~2i/
__________________________________________________________________________
3D/CG/DV/Anim/Quake links: http://www.ibmpcug.co.uk/~2i/2i_hotlist_toc.htm

From BOSHEA@SCUACC.SCU.EDU Fri Sep 27 00:12:48 1996
Return-Path: <BOSHEA@SCUACC.SCU.EDU>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 00:14:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian <BOSHEA@SCUACC.SCU.EDU>
Subject: Linux and Radiance
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
X-Vms-To: IN%"greg@hobbes.lbl.gov"
X-Vms-Cc: BOSHEA
Status: RO

Hi.

This is in response to your question about if anybody else
uses Linux besides yourself.  I love Linux.  I've been using
it for a few months now (I'm totally MicroSoft-free!) and
have installed Radiance.  The only problem is that I find
the code for Radiance kind of cryptic.  Have you ever used
PovRay?  The code is a lot like C (in appearance, anyway)
and is just more intuitive (but I hear not as flexible).
Since I am less comfortable with Radiance, I don't have a
great deal of experience with it.  Do you have any ideas
about how to become more familiar with it?  I have even
tried trad (the Tk interface for X11) but with little
success.  It seems to require that you already have written
the source file for Radiance to use trad.  Maybe I just
havn't given it enough time.  I really don't know.

Anyhow, thanks.
-brian o'shea

From greg Sat Sep 28 09:14:39 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 96 08:50:20 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc.list
Subject: more Radiance discussion
Status: R

>From paulg@teleport.com Sat Sep 28 01:04:16 1996
Return-Path: <paulg@teleport.com>
Resent-Message-Id: <199609280804.BAA20521@desiree.teleport.com>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <paulg@mail.teleport.com>
Resent-From: "Paul Garceau" <paulg@teleport.com>
Resent-To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 01:09:03 -800
Comments: Authenticated sender is <paulg@mail.teleport.com>
From: "Paul Garceau" <paulg@teleport.com>
Organization: Paul Garceau
To: list@raydisc.lbl.gov
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 01:02:44 -800
Subject: Re: Radiance under Linux
Reply-To: paulg@teleport.com
Priority: normal
Status: RO

On 27 Sep 96 at 9:56, the Illustrious Gregory J. Ward forwarded the 
following:

> >From BOSHEA@SCUACC.SCU.EDU Fri Sep 27 00:12:48 1996

> Hi.
> 
> This is in response to your question about if anybody else
> uses Linux besides yourself.  I love Linux.  I've been using
> it for a few months now (I'm totally MicroSoft-free!) and
> have installed Radiance.  The only problem is that I find
> the code for Radiance kind of cryptic.  Have you ever used
> PovRay?  

	Yes, my first ray traceing was done with POV2.2 on a 486sx/33.  I 
initially created the file using an isometric modelling tool and then had 
it exported for POV2.2.  It ran wonderfully, albeit slowly.  I've heard 
that most people also have a cad/cam 3d modeller of some sort.  They 
create their pictures there and then convert them to Radiance code using 
one of the many conversion binaries that are available for Radiance.

	SCED is a Linux based X-Windows 3d cad modeller.  I recently downloaded 
that and it is already to go under X-Windows.

>The code is a lot like C (in appearance, anyway)
> and is just more intuitive (but I hear not as flexible).

	Is that for POVRay or Radiance?  I know that Radiance is being used quite 
a bit all over the world.  I'm sure there are a number of organizations 
that use it outside of the websites referenced from the Radiance home 
page.  Two colleges right here in this state are using it for various 
things from architectural design to interior design.

> Since I am less comfortable with Radiance, I don't have a
> great deal of experience with it.  Do you have any ideas
> about how to become more familiar with it? 

	A couple of suggestions:

	a) Use Radiance for your raytraceing...the best way to understand a ray 
tracer is to talk with it and spend time with it.  Those that have spent 
the most time with something like Radiance will be more comfortable with 
it than others.  

	b)  Never underestimate the power of play.  I know that I will spend a
great deal of time getting familiar with Radiance, and I know I will have 
a lot of fun just playing with it.  

	The tutorial that comes with the latest distribution is very helpful to
read.  Once you've read it (or while you're reading it) you can generate
the image Greg suggests and guides your through.  This will give you a
good idea of what Radiance can really do.  

	Radiance, I believe, is far more powerful than POVray and thus it has a
right to be a bit more complex, at least imho.  That to me seems to be the 
trade-off.  More power usually means more complexity.  

	With Radiances ability to intimately control light sources and ambience
values it seems only logical that it might be more complex.  What scripts
I have written seem to be fairly straight-forward (the tutorial for
instance) in terms of functionality and understanding of what Radiance is 
doing at any given time.

	I haven't taken the time yet to look through the manual that comes with
Radiance.  Even so, given the style of writing in the tutorial, I am
already impressed by Gregs ability to be clear and concise without losing
his sense of people.

	  	I hope this helps.

		Paul G.


Nothing real can be threatened.
    Nothing unreal exists.

>From paulg@teleport.com Sat Sep 28 01:14:45 1996
Return-Path: <paulg@teleport.com>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <paulg@mail.teleport.com>
From: "Paul Garceau" <paulg@teleport.com>
Organization: Paul Garceau
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 01:19:43 -800
Subject: Radiance Applications
Reply-To: paulg@teleport.com
Priority: normal
Status: RO

Hi folks,

	Maybe it's normal, but this discussion group seems to be quite quiet.  I 
know that Radiance is initially designed for Unix systems.  I was 
wondering what applications people use Radiance for.

	I know there are a lot of Radiance web sites, both noted and yet unknown. 
Some of them have used Radiance for setting up theatre lighting, building 
lighting, work-place lighting and architectural work.

	My own interest lies with buildings and environmental influences.  I also 
am partial to the more artistic aspects such as "spheres in space", or some 
other artistic approach to ray-traceing (I've noted some of these sites 
are listed as well on the Radiance home page).

	Can anyone tell me what they use Radiance for (type of raytraceing)?

		Thanks folks,

			Paul G.


Nothing real can be threatened.
    Nothing unreal exists.


From greg Tue Oct  1 13:07:55 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 96 12:48:40 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: delayed Radiance discussion group mail
Status: R

Here is some more discussion may from Terry Ridder.  I blew it when I first
sent this out, which caused some delay.  See the end of this message for
my comments and the address to write to subscribe or unsubscribe.

------------
>From terrylr@interaccess.com Mon Sep 30 08:07:33 1996
Return-Path: <terrylr@interaccess.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:19:01 -0500
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: terrylr@interaccess.com (Terry L. Ridder)
Subject: Radiance and LInux
Cc: paulg@teleport.com
Status: RO

Hello Group;

I have Linux running on 4 machines. I love Linux.
With two daughters in college, and into graphics arts, I cannot
afford all the time of supporting Win95, and the expense of WinNT.
They are starting to see the benefits of using Linux and Radiance.

Terry L. Ridder




>From terrylr@interaccess.com Mon Sep 30 08:07:45 1996
Return-Path: <terrylr@interaccess.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:19:16 -0500
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: terrylr@interaccess.com (Terry L. Ridder)
Subject: Oconv question
Status: RO

Hello Group;

Does anyone on the list have a "rule-of-thumb" concerning the time
it takes oconv to create the "*.oct" files. Scene complex surely comes into
the time involved, but what other factors come into to play. Also what is the
expected increase in time when the '-f' (freeze) option is used?

The reason I ask, is that based on the Fuzzmaker program, I have written
a program to generate a field of grass. Oconv has been running nearly
three days, and shows no signs to being done anytime soon.

Terry L. Ridder




-----------------------------------
[Comments from the moderator (Greg Ward)]:

If oconv has been running a few days, you can bet something is wrong.
In general, the time to run oconv should be proportional to the number
of surfaces, and the -f option should have no effect.  Instances are
harder to incorporate than normal surfaces, however, because they represent
volumes in the scene.  In the case of a field of grass (or any large,
repetitive, complex environment), it often works best to create a hierarchy
of instances.  For example, a small patch of grass would be put into one
octree (perhaps a few hundred to a thousand surfaces).  This patch would
then be repeated a few dozen times as instances in a larger octree, which
would in turn be repeated to make a field of grass or perhaps even a
subfield for another iteration.

-Greg
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Radiance Discussion Group mailing list:  radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov  |
| Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to:    radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov  |
| Archives available from:                 ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From greg Tue Oct  1 13:52:51 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 96 13:28:04 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: more Radiance discussion
Status: R

>From paulg@teleport.com Mon Sep 30 15:34:42 1996
Return-Path: <paulg@teleport.com>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <paulg@mail.teleport.com>
From: "Paul Garceau" <paulg@teleport.com>
Organization: Paul Garceau
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 15:39:44 -800
Subject: Re: Radiance and LInux
Reply-To: paulg@teleport.com
Priority: normal
Status: RO

Hi Terry,

	It's good to hear someone else uses Radiance under Linux.  I know of
three others, including myself, who use, or are in the process of
installing, Radiance on a Linux box.

	Initially I chose to go through the Radiance tutorial and downloaded SCED
for my later 3d modelling and CAD work.  Apparently, SCED comes with an
animation scripting language (Elk) if you wish to download it.

	I hope to be able to generate the images for a game environment
(buildings, cities, etc.) ray-trace them, using Radiance, convert the
images and then animate the images for interactive use in the game
itself.  

	I haven't thought much beyond that since I am still working on the world
environment, one that includes both diurnal and lunar cycles.  When I can
fly through the world is when I'll feel ready to build the interactive
engine itself.  In the meantime I'll begin to build the world using
Radiance.

	I have chosen Radiance because it is able to handle variances in light
levels and textures better than just about any other ray-tracer I've seen
or used (including POVRay). One thing I have noticed is that Linux,
running Radiance under X-Windows (640x480 I believe), was able to render a
small red sphere in a fraction of the time that POVRay would complete a
similar sized 24-bit .tga sphere using 320x240 resolution under MS-DOS
6.22.

	If anyone is still running with a slower processor (486/33sx -- 8Meg),
the differences between POVRay, under MS-DOS 6.22, and Radiance becomes
readily apparent.  I can't wait to upgrade to a Cyrix 6x86/200
motherboard.

On 30 Sep 96 at 10:19, the Illustrious Terry L. Ridder wrote:

> Hello Group;
> 
> I have Linux running on 4 machines. I love Linux.
> With two daughters in college, and into graphics arts, I cannot
> afford all the time of supporting Win95, and the expense of WinNT.
> They are starting to see the benefits of using Linux and Radiance.

	I can relate to this from a monetary reference as I too am going to
college and must remain on a tight budget.  I agree that Win95 and WinNT
are, indeed, too expensive in terms of time and resources to upgrade to
at this point-in-time.  In either case, it is less stressful (from a
monetary as well as a hardware/software standpoint) to simply upgrade the
motherboard then to try and get Win95 or WinNT for the MS-DOS side of this
box.

	 Most recently, my novice attempts to render under Radiance have run
into what appears to be vp (view-point) limitations.  That is, the size of
the image trying to be rendered seems to be greater than the size of what
the ray-tracing camera can actually see, thus causing an "octree
truncation" error.

	On initial rendering, I was able to create a nice sphere.  When I added
a gray room, the background turned gray, but there was no perspective of
the "room" itself due to a lack of visible wall joints.

	Next, I attempted to add a chrome rod below the sphere and blue box
beneath the rod (pedestal),  and ran into the "octree truncated" error. 
Anyone have any ideas or understanding of why this "octree truncated" 
error occurs?

	Any comments or constructive criticism would be appreciated.

		Thank you.

			Paul G.


Playing finger-jibe with my Linux...

---------------------------------- From the moderator (Greg Ward);

The "truncated octree" error occurs when the end of the octree file was
cut off, usually due to a disk space limitation or file write error.
It cannot be caused by any limitation or error within Radiance itself.

-Greg
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Radiance Discussion Group mailing list:  radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov  |
| Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to:    radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov  |
| Archives available from:                 ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From paulg@teleport.com Wed Oct  2 00:50:31 1996
Return-Path: <paulg@teleport.com>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <paulg@mail.teleport.com>
From: "Paul Garceau" <paulg@teleport.com>
Organization: Paul Garceau
To: raydisc@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 23:53:32 -800
Subject: Re: more Radiance discussion
Reply-To: paulg@teleport.com
Priority: normal
Status: R

On  1 Oct 96 at 13:28, the Illustrious Gregory J. Ward wrote:

(edit)...truncated octree error

> ---------------------------------- From the moderator (Greg Ward);
> 
> The "truncated octree" error occurs when the end of the octree file was
> cut off, usually due to a disk space limitation or file write error. It
> cannot be caused by any limitation or error within Radiance itself.

		Thanks Greg.

			Peace,

				Paul G.


Nothing real can be threatened.
    Nothing unreal exists.

From greg Wed Oct  2 10:58:48 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 96 10:32:54 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: more Radiance discussion
Status: R

Please don't use the "reply" command -- send explicitly to the authors or
write to "radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov" if you want your message to go
to the whole group.  Unsubscribe requests should go to:

	radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov

------------------
>From terrylr@interaccess.com Wed Oct  2 00:34:36 1996
Return-Path: <terrylr@interaccess.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 02:45:21 -0500
To: RAYDREAM-L@cornell.edu, radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: terrylr@interaccess.com (Terry L. Ridder)
Subject: Modeller Question
Status: RO

Hello Group;

A quick question, has anyone here any experience with the Design Workshop
Modeller from Artifice?

Please refer to <http://www.artifice.com> if you need a reference for what
I am talking about.

The reason I ask, is that this maybe a solution to my one daughter's design
class problem. She would be able to model her designs and save the files
as Radiance files. FTP the files to home, and render them here, under Linux
and Radiance. Pickup the result when I send her e-mail that the rendering
is done.


Terry L. Ridder
Blue Danube Software
"We don't write software, we compose it."

And every hour of every day I 'm learning more
the more I learn, the less I know about before
the less I know, the more I want to look around
digging deep for clues on higher ground.
-- Higher Ground-- UB40


>From terrylr@interaccess.com Wed Oct  2 00:34:38 1996
Return-Path: <terrylr@interaccess.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 02:45:26 -0500
To: RAYDREAM-L@cornell.edu, radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: terrylr@interaccess.com (Terry L. Ridder)
Subject: The ideal rendering machine.
Status: RO

Hello Group;

Checkout this Web Page for the fast motherboard on the planet.

I talked with the company today, and the system that Microway
puts this motherboard in came in second only to a Cray Y-MP.

<http://www.microway.com>

500MHZ Dec Alpha Chip, 1 GigaFlops

System comes with WindowsNT & LInux.

I wonder just how just this puppy would render 3D?

If you would settle for less speed, say 300MHZ, the system is below $6K USD
and that is with 64MB's of RAM, 1MB Pipeline cache, etc....

Yes, Christmas is less than 3 months away, now where did I put that e-mail
address for the North Pole?


Terry L. Ridder
Blue Danube Software


>From g.elisara@auckland.ac.nz Wed Oct  2 03:00:21 1996
Return-Path: <g.elisara@auckland.ac.nz>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:00:12 +1200 (NZT)
From: Greg Elisara <g.elisara@auckland.ac.nz>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Paul Bourkes's rad to qtvr source
Status: RO

Hi all,

Does anyone have the original source code the Paul Bourke produced to
convert radiance pic files to qtvr files. It seems to have disappeared of
the face of our ftp server.

Paul, if you're out there, can you clarify whether it is still available
or not. 

On a totally different matter, it's nice to see Linux users out there
taking advantage of both Radiance and linux. I've used both a great deal
over the last couple of years with much pleasure.

Regards, Greg.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

               Greg Elisara
         g.elisara@auckland.ac.nz
           Dept of Architecture,
    University of Auckland, New Zealand.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 

------------------------------------ From the moderator (Greg Ward):

You can also use the cylindrical view type in Radiance:

	view= qtvr -vtc -vh 360 -vv 88 # other view options

In QuickTime VR, your view direction should be horizontal (i.e., perpendicular
to the view up vector) and will point behind your eventual default orientation.

Ideally, you would generate a final image size of 2496x768:

	RESOLUTION= 2496 768 0		# The final 0 means exact

You then convert the result to pict format using "ra_pict -g 1.8" and
apply the free QuickTime VR converter available from Apple's web site:

	http://quicktime.apple.com/sw/sw.html

-Greg

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From greg Wed Oct  2 18:08:13 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 96 17:45:05 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: more Radiance discussion from Paul Garceau
Status: R

I have put these together so as to minimize the number of separate postings
to the discussion list...

>From paulg@teleport.com Wed Oct  2 15:36:59 1996
Return-Path: <paulg@teleport.com>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <paulg@mail.teleport.com>
From: "Paul Garceau" <paulg@teleport.com>
Organization: Paul Garceau
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:38:32 -800
Subject: Re: more Radiance discussion
Reply-To: paulg@teleport.com
Cc: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward)
Priority: normal
Status: RO

Hi folks,

	It's good to know that I'm not in a vacuum over here.  One of the
reasons I like these sorts of discussion groups is _because_ it reminds me
that I am _not_ in a vacuum here.  What do other people think of this
discussion group?  Is this the appropriate place to ask such questions?  I
ask more from a sense of curiosity and a desire to serve than I ask from
any other place.

	After spending hours of time working on this or that modification, it is 
good to be able to discuss whatever errors may have come up, if any.  It's 
just as good to be able to simply wave in someones general direction.

	The most recent thing has been, for me, an octree truncated error.  I'm
fairly certain it's not being caused by a lack of disk space (unless a
single octree file with a max of about 2 commands and appx 7 definitions
-- light and primitive, takes up more than 54M of disk <?!>).  This leads
me to one conclusion since Greg assures me it's not being caused by
Radiance; Sced is responsible for the octree error.  Can anyone confirm
or discount this?

	  I need to track this down since I can't render until I eliminate such
errors and their logical causes, even if it means installing the latest
stable Linux kernel (2.0.21).  I am, as noted earlier, using Radiance
under Linux (2.0.0) on an 8Meg 486sx/33 (soon to be Cyrix 6x86/200).

	I hope things are going well for everyone.

	Thanks for your response and/or constructive comments.

		Peace,

			Paul G.


Nothing real can be threatened.
    Nothing unreal exists.

>From paulg@teleport.com Wed Oct  2 15:50:37 1996
Return-Path: <paulg@teleport.com>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <paulg@mail.teleport.com>
From: "Paul Garceau" <paulg@teleport.com>
Organization: Paul Garceau
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:55:39 -800
Subject: Animation w/Radiance
Reply-To: paulg@teleport.com
Priority: normal
Status: RO

Hi folks,

	Currently I am using SCED to generate any animation scripts that I need
for my models being rendered under Radiance.  This is currently being
accomplished through the use of a scripting language known as "Elk" that 
is available for Sced.

	Does anyone know how to animate Radiance files via Radiance itself?  
Granted, Radiance, in its initial form as far as I can remember, was not 
designed for animation.

	Recently, Greg Ward mentioned that QT movies can be generated from 
Radiance.  Is this capability part of the initial Radiance distributions' 
capabilities or do I need to download some special application to 
accomplish this?

	Thanks for your comments.

		Peace,

			Paul G.


Nothing real can be threatened.
    Nothing unreal exists.

>From paulg@teleport.com Wed Oct  2 15:58:39 1996
Return-Path: <paulg@teleport.com>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <paulg@mail.teleport.com>
From: "Paul Garceau" <paulg@teleport.com>
Organization: Paul Garceau
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:03:41 -800
Subject: Radiance and VRML
Reply-To: paulg@teleport.com
Priority: normal
Status: RO

Hi Group, 

	I thought about including these questions in an earlier posting then
decided that I would start a separate "thread".  In the near future I will
be starting to generate VRML (Virtual Reality Modelling Language). I
would like to use Radiance to generate the initial models (VRM). 
However, a couple of questions came up:

	Are there any Radiance users here that participate in the generation of
VRML (Virtual Reality Modelling Language)?  If so, do you render under
Radiance and then convert to a VRML or do you generate the VRM (Virtual
Reality Model) first and then convert the VRM to Radiance?

	Thanks for your responses.

		Peace,

			Paul G.


Nothing real can be threatened.
    Nothing unreal exists.


-------------------------------------- From the moderator (Greg Ward):

Actually, I apologize for my earlier statement about truncated octrees.
I just checked, and it appears that this error can be the result of any
number of errors in the scene file which might cause oconv to abort.
You should have seen some error message somewhere along the way, however.

The latest version of Radiance (3.0) has a program called "ranimate" to
aid in generating animated sequences.  However, it mostly takes care of
the bookeeping and not the view path generation or scene animation.  For
these tasks, you are still on your own.

For QuickTimeVR, which is different from QuickTime, you need only Radiance 3.0
and the Apple FilmMaker thing I mentioned in the last posting.  Quicktime
movies require that you generate a sequence of frames and convert them, and
for this you may need Paul Bourke's software.  His new web site is:

	http://bourke.gen.nz/paul.html

-Greg

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From greg Wed Oct  2 21:16:39 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 96 20:52:35 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: question about Radiance functions
Status: R

Some of these questions seem like they would be better addressed to just
me, and I could summarize the answers as I usually do in the Radiance Digest.

>From dxs@diac.com Wed Oct  2 20:36:29 1996
Return-Path: <dxs@diac.com>
Date: Wed,  2 Oct 96 21:32 MDT
From: dxs@november.diac.com
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Status: R

i am using the rtrace program to produce illuminance information.
i did some profiling and noticed that about 25 % of the time
was spent in argument, efunc and eargument functions.  since i
am not producing new functions, would it be very difficult
to rewrite the expressions that get compiled at the beginning
of rtrace in c to avoid the overhead of this interpretation?
also, currently all my surfaces are grey.  is it possible to 
easily turn off color calculations to speed things up?
thanks,
dan stanger
dan.stanger@internut.com


------------------------------------------------ Answer from Greg Ward:

Compiling and linking in functions is rather tricky, and the speed gain
would be half the 25% used by your scene currently.  (I should point out
for others who haven't profiled anything that if you don't use the
procedural language in your scene descriptions, it doesn't cost you
anything.  The amount of time spent in evaluating the functional language
varies with the complexity and frequency of function use.)  You can do
it if your determined, however, by adding to the linked functions (thus
extending the functional language library) in the initialization code of
the getfunc() call in src/rt/func.c.

Taking out color calculations would be exceedingly difficult and the savings
would be hardly noticeable.  I definitely don't recommend it.

-Greg

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+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+

P.S.  I forgot to mention in my last attachment that you can convert from
Radiance to VRML by combining the rad2mgf and mgf2inv translators.

From greg Thu Oct  3 09:41:52 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 96 09:16:23 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: web page proposal from Terry Ridder
Status: R

>From terrylr@interaccess.com Wed Oct  2 23:04:10 1996
Return-Path: <terrylr@interaccess.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 01:15:52 -0500
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: terrylr@interaccess.com (Terry L. Ridder)
Subject: Announcement of Great Joy, (well sort of)
Status: RO

Hello Group;

After being delayed by a few minor events earlier in the year, you know floods,
getting hit by lightning twice in the same week, tornado , we
are now our own Internet Service Provider. (And they all shout Huh???)

The point of this posting is to let all you rendering-your-little-hearts-out
Radiance users, know  of the following:

1. Offsite rendering should be up and running shortly. We have recovered
   for the most part from the floods, and lightning strikes. The house is
   almost back together, well sort of almost back together.

2. I would like to plan on a Radiance Stravin' Artist Gallery to be
   hosted by me for free. I would like to hear from each and everyone of
   you about the format, gallery divisions, etc. We have the choice of
   managing this by committee or anarchy, I personally vote for anarchy.

3. I would also like to plan on a form of classified ads for list members
   and job postings, or talent (leaves me out) wanted. This needs
   to be somewhat organized. So I am looking for a few proud willing
   volunteers.

3a. Along the same line, the holidays are coming up, and it would be
    "interesting" to have a Halloween Page, A Reformation Day Page,
    (remember your history, Halloween, and Reformation Day are on the
    same day.), Thankgiving Day, Christmas, Advent. Please keep in mind
    that this is a "Family" Starvin' Artist Web Page Collection. Children
    maybe watching.

4. There are many more "goodies" coming in the future weeks, on which I
   will keep you posted.

Well that is about all folks.

Now remember: Go out there and commit random acts of senseless KINDNESS. ;-)

All right, I will go back to my office, and play, I mean program.

Terry L. Ridder
Blue Danube Software
"We don't write software, we compose it."

And every hour of every day I 'm learning more
the more I learn, the less I know about before
the less I know, the more I want to look around
digging deep for clues on higher ground.
-- Higher Ground-- UB40




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From lwright@orednet.org Mon Oct  7 21:54:54 1996
Return-Path: <lwright@orednet.org>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 21:54:03 -0700
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward)
From: lwright@orednet.org (Larry Wright)
Subject: Re:  Subscription
Status: R

Greg,
Sorry for the lack of info.  I would like a subscription to both lists.

Thanks
lwright@orednet.org


>Subscribe to which list?  The moderated announcement and digest mailing list,
>or the unmoderated discussion group?  Usually people subscribe either to
>the announcement list only, or to both lists.
>
>-Greg



From chas@innernet.com Thu Oct 10 02:17:23 1996
Return-Path: <chas@innernet.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 01:39:38 -0700
To: raydisc@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: chas@innernet.com (Charles Ehrlich)
Subject: Re: more Radiance discussion
Status: R


Re: Design Workshop and Radiance.

When I spoke with someone at Artifice about a year ago, they made the
distinct disclaimer that their Radiance export utility had a few bugs.
In particular, it was necessary to edit the materials to get a working
model.  This is not a big limitiation because all translators I know
of require editing of materials.

If economy is your first priority, does a MS-DOS version of Radiance
v2.3 as part of the ADELINE package fit your budget at $450.00?  Please
check out the ADELINE WWW page at:

     http://radsite.lbl.gov/adeline/home.html

I use the ADELINE version of Radiance frequently when I'm creating 3D
models with AutoCAD for Windows.  I export my 3D data directly from
AutoCAD using trad (a free lisp utility at the hobbes.lbl.gov ftp site)
or its close cousin called torad (a $50.00 ADS-C utility available at
http://www.innernet.com/radiance/home.html). << Warning, that is a plug.>>
Torad creates a .RIF file and materials that match AutoCAD's basic 256 color
pallette (not so nice) such that the scene can be immediately rendered from
within a MS-DOS shell with one command: rad -o vga model.rif.  After editing
the materials and adding a few nice views to the .RIF file, you can complete
full resolution renderings completely on the MS-DOS platform. ADELINE has even
been run on a PowerMac with SoftWindows, but I don't recommend this approach.
A better solution for Radiance on the Mac is the MachTen Operating system
(www.tennon.com) with the latest Unix version 3.0 of Radiance.

Re: Linux

I use Radiance on Linux on a daily basis.  I have set up eight separate
Linux boxes over the past three years.  Besides the fact that Linux always
takes me longer than I expect to get running, I am quite pleased with
the Linux-Radiance match.


Re: Quicktime VR

The new cylindrical view option (rpict -vtc) of Radiance V2.5 or above is quite
a nifty feature!  This is not part of ADELINE 2.0, unfortunately.

-Chas

Charles Ehrlich
Principal, Space & Light



From artlite@iafrica.com Thu Oct 10 15:50:45 1996
Return-Path: <artlite@iafrica.com>
From: artlite@iafrica.com (Gavin Donaldson-Selby)
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Microstation port to Linux.
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 00:25:47 -0200
Lines: 10
Status: RO


>From e-mail I've had with the programmer doing the port I believe that
Microstation for Linux (Educational package) will be available by the
end of the year. No more dual-boot!

Now if someone could write a radout/torad equivalent ...

GH Donaldson-Selby
Dept. Entertainment Technology
Technikon Natal.

From STEINERWESTLING@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 16 17:42:58 1996
Return-Path: <STEINERWESTLING@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 20:44:29 -0400
From: Robert Westling <STEINERWESTLING@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Organization: steinerwestling
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Radiance Discussion Group
Status: R

We would like to subscribe to the mailing list.

Thanks.

From russ602@pn.itnet.it Thu Oct 17 11:31:17 1996
Return-Path: <russ602@pn.itnet.it>
From: Giampaolo Russo <russ602@IT.net>
Reply-To: russ602@IT.net
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 20:27:03 +0100
Organization: DragonBall Finder
Subject: SUBSCRIBE
Status: R



From greg Fri Oct 18 10:06:36 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 96 09:43:14 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: New Radiance Web site
Status: R

I shall link this in to the main Radiance page momentarily....

>From gm@hl-technik.de Fri Oct 18 07:43:46 1996
Return-Path: <gm@hl-technik.de>
From: "Georg Mischler" <gm@hl-technik.de>
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:44:00 -0100
Subject: new web site
X-Gateway: iGate, (GroupWise) vers 4.04o - 1082
Status: RO


Hi Greg,

finally my web site is reachable under its proper name!
thanks for forwarding to the discussion
list

-Georg


----8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<----

Announcement:

The Greatest text only radiance related web site you've ever seen! ;)


    http://www.schorsch.com/autocad/radiance.html
	
	
This is the home of the "Autocad to Radiance Interface Project",
featuring the newest information about:

torad
- software (autolisp sources)
- manuals
- FAQs

radout
- software (very soon - C sources for unix)

ddrad
- software (as soon as I get it stable enough)
- manuals
- project status information
- and more.


As allways (and like the project itself), this site is constantly
under construction. I will try to keep the information as up to
date as possible.
I recommend anyone to check the page /autocad/ddr/future.html from
time to time. This page contains a table of all features of ddrad
that I consider worth considering, and some status information
about each of them. If you have any ideas, solutions and other
suggestions, let me know!

Shortly some information here that didn't make it to the web yet:
There is a (now former) student in Belguim named Benjamin Geebelen,
who did a reimplementation of the torad based ddrad. He realised
many of the advanced that are top on my to-do list. So, when my
negotiations with him about swapping code will be successful, then
the final release of the radout based ddrad will be easier to
accomplish and more complete than I originally thought!

Of course the final release will be announced here - and on my web
site.


On other branches of the server you will find radiance unrelated
information like:

- Autocad 3d modelling utilities
- Autocad programming utilities for unix
- topol - Export autocad geometry to the CLRview visualisation tool.
- Some links I like and support.
- Maybe soon some
Go
(Baduk)
related
stuff.


Have
Fun!

-Georg


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Georg Mischler  --

schorsch@www.schorsch.com

--

http://www.schorsch.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


From valois@cim.mcgill.ca Fri Oct 18 12:16:04 1996
Return-Path: <valois@cim.mcgill.ca>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 15:16:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Valois Jean-Sebastien <valois@cim.mcgill.ca>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Subscribe
Status: R

Please subscribe me:
    valois@cim.mcgill.ca

#################################################
Hi everyone,
   Is there is a way to apply a texture map on a glow source without using
Dx, Dy and Dz ?  I know on a regular surface we can use Px, Py, and Pz 
(which are independent of the view direction) to apply the
texture map but those parmeters are useless on a glow as I can see.

Thank you.
Jean-Sebastien Valois
###############################################

From jib@worldnet.fr Tue Oct 22 01:23:42 1996
Return-Path: <jib@worldnet.fr>
Sender: jean@fnet.fr
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 09:25:38 +0100
From: Jean Brange <jib@worldnet.fr>
Organization: ETNA
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: change of adress
Status: R

unsubscribe raydisc jib@worldnet.fr
subscribe raydisc jean@aleph.afuu.fr

From greg Mon Nov  4 11:19:34 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 96 10:54:11 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: Radiance question about source photometry
Cc: \
Status: R

This is from Erwin Zierler (my comments at the end):

>From erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at Mon Nov  4 04:50:39 1996
Return-Path: <erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at>
From: Erwin Zierler <erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at>
Subject: light sources
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:45:30 +0100 (MEZ)
Cc: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
Status: RO

Hello Radiance experts,

recently I have read quite a lot about lighting, light sources, IES and
other 'standards', I browsed the entire LBL webpages, worked myself through
the libraries of the Radiance distribution and the digest archives and so on.
The reason for this effort is that I want to render an indoor scene with
several artificial light sources (from a simple 100 watt lightbulb to
several different low-voltage halogen and metal-oxide lamps).
Now here comes the question(s):

1. Is there a 'rule of thumb' for creating simple lightbulbs that
   produce reasonable output. Of course I could just use something
   like: 
   
   void light bright 0 0 3 r g b 

   and then apply it to a sphere or other geometry. But how do I get 
   the right values for r,g,b and which parameters of the lightbulb
   have an influence on these values?
   The manual says: light is defined simply as a RGB radiance value 
   (watts/steradian/m2). Ok, I got watts, and I can calculate the 
   m2 (if my assumption is right that this is the total 'glowing' 
   area of my luminaire), but how do I get the right value for
   steradian? Or can anyone recommend some literature where I can
   educate myself a bit better about this subject? :-)

2. Trying to understand the IES description files and producing
   a few example files I realized that this is not really very
   helpful if you have a given fixture and luminaires. Also I'm
   pretty sure that lighting manufacturers in Europe won't be
   able to give me IES descriptions of their products, so I'm
   a bit stuck. It's not a problem to model the geometry but
   when it comes to creating the proper materials it gets quite
   tricky if you want to be 'as close as possible' to real-world
   conditions. Any advice on how to go about this would be really
   helpful.

3. Many manufacturers/resellers supply the lumen for their products
   but I'm not sure how this influences my material description,
   I can just guess that the higher the lumen the brighter the
   light?

Anyway, I guess what I really need is a description in 'plain English' :)
I hoped I could figure all this out myself but after reading so many
documents and still not understanding I thought I better ask the experts.

Thanks alot in advance for any help,

Erwin

-- 
Erwin Zierler		! email:  erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at
University of Innsbruck	! voice:  +43 (0)663-9156926
Austria 		! WWW:    http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/erwin/

-------------------------------

There is a program called "lampcolor" that will do what you want for simple
(diffuse) light sources.  For photometric distributions, the process is a
little bit tricky, and you have to create a custom data file from the
manufacturer's distribution, but it can be done.  I have put a Macintosh PICT
file in the /pub/doc directory of the anonymous ftp account on hobbes.lbl.gov
that gives a simple example of how this is done.

	ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/doc/phot.pict

-Greg

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From greg Mon Nov  4 12:40:31 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 96 12:15:17 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: Radiance and MicroStation
Status: R

>From elisara@ihug.co.nz Mon Nov  4 12:07:06 1996
Return-Path: <elisara@ihug.co.nz>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <elisara@pop.ihug.co.nz>
From: elisara@ihug.co.nz
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:03:25 +0000
Subject: MicroStation geometry into Radiance
Priority: normal
Status: R

Hi all,

has anyone been able to get MicroStation geometry into Radiance 
reliably and consistantly?

Greg Elisara.

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From greg Mon Nov  4 19:25:22 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 96 18:59:38 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: Radiance quick reference
Status: R

>From paulg@teleport.com Mon Nov  4 17:26:46 1996
Return-Path: <paulg@teleport.com>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <paulg@mail.teleport.com>
From: "Paul Garceau" <paulg@teleport.com>
Organization: Paul Garceau
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:31:44 -800
Subject: Radiance Quick-Reference/Index
Reply-To: paulg@teleport.com
Priority: normal
Status: RO

Hi folks, 

	I would very much like to start generating ray-traced designs for 
radiance.  I have done a couple, but there seems to be no quick 
referencing scheme available so that I could look up a given instruction 
and then cross-reference to whatever aspects I have questions about 
(format/syntax/display).

	I am using ghostview to look at the manual, but it is difficult at best 
to find the proper pages/syntax references and some sort of explanation of 
the radiance commands that is readily accessible without spending a great 
deal of time and energy on printing the manual itself under Unix/Unix-like 
systems.

	I have also found it difficult to know where and how to place my cameras 
and lights to get the view that I want to see.

	As an example...I want to ray trace, using radiance, a tryptych.  The 
tryptych is basically nine spheres arrayed in the form of a equilateral 
triangle.

	I want to reflect the equilateral triangle in a circular or oval "pool" 
of some sort.  Each of the nine spheres need to be different colors and I 
must be able to set them up prior to converting them into a Radiance 
image.  I am using something called "sced" for the initial design of the 
image.

	"Sced" seems quite able to convert to Radiance.  However, I don't seem to 
have enough information to generate the (formerly) sced image in a 
(converted) Radiance form.

	Can anyone offer suggestions as to what would be a good cad package to 
make the initial image in and then to convert it to Radiance?  For all 
intents and purposes I am running a Unix-like OS (Linux) that, as far as I 
know is capable of handling System-V files if necessary (though I would 
rather not add System-V on this OS) and is compatible with most, if not 
all, pure Unix system files.

	What I would like to do is design the initial image (in wireframe, 
with the possibility of a quick render) and then take the image, as I see 
it on my screen, and then convert it to Radiance.  I am willing to drop 
Sced all together if it would make it easier for me to generate stuff 
specifically for conversions to Radiance.

	Ultimately, I expect to be using these tools to generate story boards 
(again any suggestions for story board generators would be appreciated) 
for 3d computer games.  With the ability that Radiance has to modify light 
and influence it, it stands as an excellent tool for generating individual 
scenes.

	Thanks everyone for your input.

		Peace,

			Paul G.


Nothing real can be threatened.
    Nothing unreal exists.

---------------------------

The Radiance man pages and reference manual are available online from the
Radiance web site (http://radsite.lbl.gov/radiance/HOME.html) in HTML,
which can be a little easier to peruse than the distributed versions.
Also, we are working on a book with Wiley and Sons, due out in Summer.

-Greg
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From jon@esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Nov  5 03:26:20 1996
Return-Path: <jon@esru.strath.ac.uk>
From: jon@esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:27:40 +0000
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: info on Sced
Status: RO


I have been seeing references to Sced in
postings. Is there a synposis of its
functionality/source that someone could
post me?

Regards, Jon Hand
Energy Systems Research Unit
Glasgow, Scotland
jon@esru.strath.ac.uk



From greg Tue Nov  5 13:13:12 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 96 12:47:52 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: Radiance editor development advice
Status: R

Dear Radiance Discussion Group Members,

This is an e-mail forwarded from Christoph Hoegl, who is interested in
developing a scene editor for Radiance.  I suggested that we forward this
to the group, and that anyone interested in helping with advice or warnings
or comments along the lines of "use the such-and-such editor -- it works great"
might chime in.  Also, please do write to Christoph and/or me so we can start
a little subgroup on this if there is enough interest.

-Greg

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I want to write a platformindependant modeller (platformindependant
for unix-users:-) ) and need some hints on what would be nice to have
since it should be a very useable thing in the end
(currently i work with sced under Linux but it is not very nice if you
want to do things very comfortable (Autocad is no solution either))
My idea was to write something that is able to use all of the fine
features Radiance provides with few as possible hacking.
All current modellers don't support (be it Autocad or sced or something
else) nice translations into Radiance and the converters provided all loose
half the information given (except TRAD:-) )
To make it short i want to write an app which is like trad but with a
integrated wireframe-editor to be able to create scenes more easily
(I'm currently sick of calculating objects to get a clue of what they look like
and then having them converted to objects named after some star in an unknown
galaxy without any idea how to identify them if there are more than 30 objects)

So my wish is that you provide a little list with things you want to have
included which would make even more pleasant to work with Radiance
(Perhaps a Preview of ambient lights, an easy interface to move chairs in a
room or something to dim the lights in a quick preview until it's worth
to render it in 4096x1024 pixels highquality (which is still an issue of
time), an extensible interface to the generators)
Perhaps you know of others which have started or are planning to do similar
things (i'm flexible in choosing a programming laguage to code it with)

Thanks in advance,
Christoph

Christoph Hoegl / darkwing@bsdd.regensburg.com / (Darkwing@berkeley.edu)
Siedlungsstr. 18 93128 Regenstauf Germany  Fax:+49 940270611

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From thor@promarkone.com Tue Nov  5 14:59:35 1996
Return-Path: <thor@promarkone.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 96 16:59:24 CST
From: thor@promarkone.com (Jon Thorson - Systems Overlord)
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: address change
Status: R

Could you please change the my email address from

	thor@promarkone.com
to
	rock@minot.com

Thanks.

From greg Thu Nov  7 13:08:38 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 96 12:28:24 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: question about BRDF's
Status: R

[I added my 2 cents at the end.  -G]

>From tarhan@piranha.cis.upenn.edu Thu Nov  7 09:58:49 1996
Return-Path: <tarhan@piranha.cis.upenn.edu>
Posted-Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:58:23 -0500 (EST)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:58:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "I. Inanc Tarhan" <tarhan@piranha.cis.upenn.edu>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Reflection models
Status: RO


Dear Radiance users,

I have just started using Radiance and I am planning to use it to test
physically-valid light reflection models and eventually compare 
simple Radiance scenes with the real ones. 

I was wondering what is the best way of describing a surface where the
distribution of the diffusely scattered light is non-Lambertian (Let's say
the functional form is known).  Can this be done by using an auxiliary
file in connection with Transfunc, BRTDfunc etc. Or will it be necessary
to modify some parts of the main code? 

Another question is about polarization: how long will it take  
to modify Radiance so that it can also keep track of polarization?
Is there enough interest in doing this (I am afraid the answer will 
be no!) ?

Thanks for your help!

==================================================================
I. Inanc Tarhan
GRASP Laboratory                  Tel: (215) 898-9247
University of Pennsylvania        Fax: (215) 573-2048
Suite 300C, 3401 Walnut Street
Philadelphia, PA 19104-6228    
=================================================================


+++++++++++++++++++++++

If you have a functional form for the directional-diffuse part, you can
use BRTDfunc to describe it.  However, the directional-diffuse
interactions between surfaces (other than light sources) will be
approximated as diffuse.  Only for the predefined types (plastic,
metal, etc.) is the directional-diffuse (soft specular) computed
correctly from Monte Carlo samples, since this can be done
efficiently.  If you have some way to generate MC samples yourself,
then you can implement this as a new material function in C and link it
into the software.

If you are working from data, the plasdata and metdata types may work for you,
but again, directional-diffuse components will be approximated as diffuse
for the purposes of computing multiple surface interreflections.  Only light
source highlights will really show up your function.

As for adding light polarization, I have considered the effort to do this
myself, and it seems rather high.  In particular, I am not sure how I would
get the data needed to even compute the correct polarization of surface
reflections and enter them as part of the material types or modifiers.
The changes to the code would also be extensive, since nearly every
non-Lambertian radiance computation would have to be modified.

-Greg
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From john.gould@internetmci.com Mon Nov 11 06:18:21 1996
Return-Path: <john.gould@internetmci.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:15:36 -0500
From: john gould <john.gould@internetmci.com>
Subject: subscribe
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Reply-To: john.gould@internetmci.com
Organization: gould group
Status: R

subscribe john.gould@internetmci.com


From Jmill@gnn.com Tue Nov 12 17:34:23 1996
Return-Path: <Jmill@gnn.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:38:07
From: Jmill@gnn.com (jon miller)
To: GJWard@lbl.gov
Subject: SUBSCRIBE TO LIST
Status: RO

Hi. I recently purchased adeline 2.0 and I would like to subscribe to your
new radiance e-mail list. Thank you.


From greg Wed Nov 13 11:15:05 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 96 10:51:20 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: question on DXF->Radiance translators
Status: R

>From lwright@orednet.org Tue Nov 12 22:19:36 1996
Return-Path: <lwright@orednet.org>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 22:18:51 -0800
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: lwright@orednet.org (Larry wright)
Subject: DXF Translators
Status: RO


Seeking advice,

Does there exist a generic DXF translator for radiance (non-AutoLisp)?  I
would like to use DXF files from "Tree Pro" on my Macintosh in radiance
renderings.  I am also wondering about converting 3DMF geometry to a
radiance octree.  Thoughts, ideas, and how to's are welcome.

Thanks
Larry Wright
lwright@orednet.org




+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The program "dxfcvt" that is distributed with Radiance only works with
ancient (version 10) DXF, but you might give it a try anyway to see
what happens with your "Tree Pro" files.  The problem with DXF (besides
the fact that AutoDesk changes it with every AutoCAD release) is that it
has too many different representations for geometry, and only a few of
these have unambiguous interpretations for 3D rendering.  It's unfortunate
that this ever became an industry standard, but here we are.

-Greg

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From chas Wed Nov 13 12:23:50 1996
Return-Path: <chas>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 96 12:00:05 PST
From: chas (Charles Ehrlich)
To: raydisc
Subject: Re: DXF Translators
Cc: chas
Status: R


There is a more robust DXF translator included with the ADELINE 2.0 
package which apparently supports up to ACAD R13.  I do not think that
any of the "new" 3D geometry types are supported, but the usual 3DFACEs,
extruded lines, arc, etc. are properly translated according to how they
appear in AutoCAD.  ADELINE 2.0 costs $450.00 for a site license and
is available through LBNL.  The WWW site says more: 

     http://www.radsite.lbl.gov/adeline/home.html

You also get an MS-DOS version of Radiance v2.3, Superlite, a minimal
3D modeling program called Scribe, and an MS-DOS based, Windows-like
interface to the Radiance "RAD" program for editing .rif files, launching
renderings, and graphing energy savings plots (and more).

If you have not a WWW browser, contact me by e-mail (do not use the 
REPLY command) at ckehrlich@lbl.gov and I will e-mail a detailed
description of what ADELINE 2.0 does.  

For current licensed users of ADELINE 1.0, the upgrade price is $200.00.
The manual is distributed in a 3-Ring binder instead of the eight 
separately bound manuals of ADELINE 1.0.

-Chas
Charles Ehrlich
Lawrence Berkeley National Lab

From greg Thu Nov 14 10:26:09 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 96 09:31:02 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: forward: perforated metal in Radiance
Status: R

> Hi all,
>
> does anyone know of a good way to create a material that looks similar/equal
> to perforated metal? I'd like to avoid 'modelling' the whole thing and
> thought there might by a trick to achieve the effect by using some
> sort of texture/transparent texture combination.
> Please let me know if my question is not exact enough or makes no sense :)
> Cheers,
>   Erwin
> --
> Erwin Zierler         ! email:  erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at
> University of Innsbruck       ! voice:  +43 (0)663-9156926
> Austria               ! WWW:    http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/erwin/

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I know this has come up in the past, on a project Chas Ehrlich worked on and
someone else had this problem as well.  It isn't too difficult to come up
with a trans description that has the appropriate amount of reflection and
transmission -- just use the reflection of the unperforated material as the
starting point, then give a transmission fraction equal to the ratio of the
hole diameter to the background, with a degree of specular transmission (arg7)
of 1.  For example, let's say that your unperforated metal has a refleciton of
65%, which is uniform over the visible spectrum.  To this, we add holes that
make up about 15% of the surface area.  Our trans looks like this:

void trans perf
0
0
7 .65 .65 .65 1 0 .15 1

Note that we have given a roughness value of 0, which means both our
reflected and transmitted rays will be mirror-like.  If you don't want
this, you can use a non-zero value, but whatever value you use will
affect both the reflected and transmitted components.  If you want
rough reflection and ideal transmission, then you will be forced to
use a different approach, like a mixture:

void metal aluminum
0
0
5 .65 .65 .65 1 .08

void mixfunc perf
4 void aluminum .15 .
0
0

The "void" material is given as the foreground to indicate pure transmission
through the holes.

In either of the above cases, we could have specified a specularity other
than one if we wanted to see some diffuse reflection, which would be perfectly
sensible.

However, one of the things that gives perforated metal its distinctive
look is the fact that the holes themselves reflect light.  Since they are
round, their inner edge tends to catch specular reflections, making them
much more visible than their relative area would seem to indicate.  To
account for this effect, it is necessary to compute the differential area
of this inner edge and add its contribution to the appropriate part of the
scattering function.  The primitive to use is transfunc or BRTDfunc.  The
latter is probably better, since it allows you to specify a separate pure
specular component, which is appropriate to account for the holes.

This is an interesting little calculus problem, but I'll have to leave it
as an exercise for the reader since I'm too lazy to do it for myself.

-Greg
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From byeh@MIT.EDU Thu Nov 14 18:17:55 1996
Return-Path: <byeh@MIT.EDU>
From: byeh@MIT.EDU
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: subscribe
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:17:58 EST
Status: R




subscribe


byeh@mit.edu

From greg Fri Nov 15 12:39:01 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 96 11:46:34 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: ACAD models and xv drivers available
Status: R

Here are a couple of items of possible interest to the group:

>From moeck@falcon.cc.ukans.edu Fri Nov 15 07:11:41 1996
Return-Path: <moeck@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:11:32 -0600
From: Martin Moeck <moeck@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: ACAD models
Status: RO

Dear Radiance users,

for those of you who are ACAD users there is an interesting 
website with plenty of (mostly mechanical) parts to download:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

            The Design, Planning, and Assembly Repository
            National Institute of Standards and Technology
                 Manufacturing Engineering Laboratory

Contact: Dr. William C. Regli (regli@cme.nist.gov)
URL: http://www.parts.nist.gov/parts

Objective:
The NIST is creating a national electronic repository of solid models
and mechanical designs.  The objective is to further the
state-of-the-art in academic and industrial process and assembly
planning systems by building a catalog of publicly accessible
real-world example parts.  This repository will provide access to
benchmark designs and process plans in a variety of formats to serve
as reference data to aide developers in advancing and commercializing
automated process planning technologies.

Current Status:

The Repository currently contains over 500 mechanical parts,
maintained in multiple data file formats (STEP AP 203, ACIS .sat, DXF,
IGES, DGN, Parasolid .xmt to name but a few).  Contributions have been
made by major research institutions (Sandia National Labs, U Maryland
College Park, U of Southern California, Heriott-Watt, Purdue, UIUC) as
well as major CAD/CAM vendors (Bentley, EDS/Unigraphics, ICEM/CDC,
Spatial Technologies).  Currently there is nearly 750M of information.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, if you are interested in furniture models, the furniture 
manufacturer Steelcase provides disks with hundreds of furniture 
pieces for ACAD 12 and 13. 

Martin Moeck
The University of Kansas
Architectural Engineering
mmoeck@ukans.edu


=============================================================
The following is for users of the image display program "xv"
who wish to use it to display and convert Radiance pictures:

>From carlalex@fivespot.engin.umich.edu Thu Nov 14 23:23:38 1996
Return-Path: <carlalex@fivespot.engin.umich.edu>
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward)
Subject: Re: xv rpic module revisited. 
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 02:23:28 -0500
From: "Carl A. Adams" <carlalex@engin.umich.edu>
Status: RO

> OK -- I'll put some mail to the group about getting this module.  Could 
> you remind me where to find it again? 
> 
> Thanks! 
> -Greg 

http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~carlalex/Pages/HaX/Xvrpic/xv-3.10.ray.tar.gz

the 30 second run down again...

There are two main directories in this distribution; xv-3.10.dist which
contains the unmodified xv v3.10 source, and xv-3.10.ray which shadows
xv-3.10.dist with symlinks. All modified files are in the xv-3.10.ray
tree. xv-3.10.ray/ray contains all of the new files, and
xv-3.10.ray/ray/orig-radiance contains the original radiance pic library
functions. The pic library was modified to allow compilation independent
of the Radiance distribution. To build XV with the xvrpic module,
build in the xv-3.10.ray directory.

I should have RCSed the changes, but oh well. next time I build the tar file.
aside from that, no surprises. should just build like xv.


   --- Carl


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From greg Sat Nov 16 09:55:34 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 96 09:00:43 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: web site for Radiance materials
Status: R

I wonder if I should link this into the main Radiance web site....

>From jean@aleph.afuu.fr Sat Nov 16 00:43:08 1996
Return-Path: <jean@aleph.afuu.fr>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 09:45:22 +0100
From: jean@aleph.afuu.fr (Jean Brange)
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re: Radiance editor development advice
Status: R

Sorry this mail did not reach hobbes so I send it back:

Dear Radiance group,

We are now developping in Paris a set of tools on Radiance with java,

We have started with a material library, avaible through the net at

http://www.afuu.fr/class/goodOne/rad.html

We plan to developp a small modeller using the same concepts, java and servers.

We would be glad to cooperate on a radiance modeller.

We choose java because it then work on any machine! (not only unix, even if WE
prefer unix!)

If you can connect tou our server and give us feed back,

We would like this to be a public material library...

Jean Brange.



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From greg Mon Nov 18 11:37:34 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 96 11:11:07 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: more Radiance material web addresses
Status: R

>From jean@aleph.afuu.fr Mon Nov 18 01:30:59 1996
Return-Path: <jean@aleph.afuu.fr>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 10:33:20 +0100 (MET)
From: Jean Brange <jean@aleph.afuu.fr>
Sender: jean@aleph.afuu.fr
Reply-To: Jean Brange <jean@aleph.afuu.fr>
Subject: Material library file
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Cc: jean@aleph.afuu.fr
Status: RO

Hello all,

the material library that we work on is still in construction, at 
http://www.afuu.fr/class/goodOne/rad.html

the file you should load to work on the open file dialogue is :
http://www.afuu.fr:80/class/def.mod

The help pages will be online this week...
We will provide some pages around our work.

Thank's for checking and feedback if you can.

Jean.



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From philipd@krasser.cs.kuleuven.ac.be Mon Nov 18 06:00:55 1996
Return-Path: <philipd@krasser.cs.kuleuven.ac.be>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:00:57 +0100 (MET)
From: Phil Dutre <Philip.Dutre@cs.kuleuven.ac.be>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: subscribe radiance-discuss
Status: RO

subscribe radiance-discuss

From djarvis@arch.vuw.ac.nz Sun Nov 17 16:59:03 1996
Return-Path: <djarvis@arch.vuw.ac.nz>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:58:12 +1300 (NZDT)
From: Dave Jarvis <djarvis@arch.vuw.ac.nz>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: subsciption
Content-Md5: sviGGs+Le7emxf6i6lH4Yg==
Status: RO

Please add me to the subsciption list for the discussion group

Name:  	Dave Jarvis
e-mail:	djarvis@arch.vuw.ac.nz

From chas Mon Nov 18 13:07:01 1996
Return-Path: <chas>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 96 12:29:06 PST
From: chas (Charles Ehrlich)
To: raydisc
Subject: DXF Translators
Status: R


There is a more robust DXF translator included with the ADELINE 2.0 
package which apparently supports up to ACAD R13.  I do not think that
any of the "new" 3D geometry types are supported, but the usual 3DFACEs,
extruded lines, arc, etc. are properly translated according to how they
appear in AutoCAD.  ADELINE 2.0 costs $450.00 for a site license and
is available through LBNL.  The WWW site says more: 

     http://www.radsite.lbl.gov/adeline/home.html

You also get an MS-DOS version of Radiance v2.3, Superlite, a minimal
3D modeling program called Scribe, and an MS-DOS based, Windows-like
interface to the Radiance "RAD" program for editing .rif files, launching
renderings, and graphing energy savings plots (and more).

If you have not a WWW browser, contact me by e-mail (do not use the 
REPLY command) at ckehrlich@lbl.gov and I will e-mail a detailed
description of what ADELINE 2.0 does.  

For current licensed users of ADELINE 1.0, the upgrade price is $200.00.
The manual is distributed in a 3-Ring binder instead of the eight 
separately bound manuals of ADELINE 1.0.

-Chas
Charles Ehrlich
Lawrence Berkeley National Lab

From eslinger@cerfnet.com Mon Nov 18 17:35:18 1996
Return-Path: <eslinger@cerfnet.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:35:38 -0800 (PST)
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: eslinger@CERF.NET (George Eslinger)
Subject: subscribe
Status: R


George A. Eslinger, Director,  Bureau of Street Lighting, 
City of Los Angeles, CA         Phone: 213-847-6401, Fax: 213-847-5405,
Email: eslinger@cerfnet.com


From eslinger@cerfnet.com Mon Nov 18 17:35:18 1996
Return-Path: <eslinger@cerfnet.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:35:38 -0800 (PST)
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: eslinger@CERF.NET (George Eslinger)
Subject: subscribe
Status: R


George A. Eslinger, Director,  Bureau of Street Lighting, 
City of Los Angeles, CA         Phone: 213-847-6401, Fax: 213-847-5405,
Email: eslinger@cerfnet.com

From greg Fri Nov 22 10:13:51 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 96 09:45:43 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: more on perforated metal
Status: R

>From jean@aleph.afuu.fr Fri Nov 22 01:48:07 1996
Return-Path: <jean@aleph.afuu.fr>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:47:01 +0100 (MET)
From: jean@aleph.afuu.fr
Sender: jib@aleph
Reply-To: jean@aleph.afuu.fr
Subject: Re: perfo.cal 2nd time
To: Erwin Zierler <erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at>, radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Status: RO

Hi Erwin,

we seem to have E-mail problems these days so this is a second posting and is
some how different from the first one cause I never archive posts to list (I
should get them from the list! .. oops!)

here is what I sent you and the list about perfo.cal.

it produced nice result as simulating the view through the perforated steel.
but the definition for the steel is not necesary good.

I would apreciate comments, I did not find the time to try Georg Mischler cal.
i am on fire for other projects...



{
	Calculate BRTDF of perforated steel.

	source: tim.cal	29 Nov 1991 Greg Ward and Raphael Compagnon
	
	Creation:	01 Mar 1995 jib-ETNA
	Last Modif:	15 Mar 1995 jib
	
	Apply with following BRTDfunc:

	mod BRTDfunc perforatedmat
	10	refl	refl	refl
		stran	stran	stran
		brtdf	brtdf	brtdf
		tim1.cal
	0
	14 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 red green blue hole_rad hole_spacingx

}
hole_rad = arg(13) ;
hole_spacingx = arg(14);
gridx=1.7321*hole_spacingx;
gridy=hole_spacingx;
offsetx=.866*hole_spacingx;
offsety=.5*hole_spacingx;

u_hole1 = hole_rad - mod(U,gridx);
v_hole1 = hole_rad - mod(V,gridy);
u_hole2 = hole_rad - mod(U+offsetx,gridx);
v_hole2 = hole_rad - mod(V+offsety,gridy);

z =
if(or(hole_rad-sqrt(u_hole1*u_hole1+v_hole1*v_hole1),hole_rad-sqrt(u_hole2*u_hole2+v_hole2*v_hole2))
,
	1,
	0
	);

refl = if(z,0,1);

rrefl = if(z,0,arg(10));
grefl = if(z,0,arg(11));
brefl = if(z,0,arg(12));

stran = z;

brtdf(lx,ly,lz) = 0;


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From erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at Fri Nov 22 10:35:30 1996
Return-Path: <erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at>
From: Erwin Zierler <erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at>
Subject: Perforated material - Thank you all!
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 19:34:20 +0100 (MEZ)
Status: RO

Hello fellow Radiance users,

I'd like to thank you all for the great responses you sent via the list
and also in private email. I'm still in the process of testing all of them
but due to the fact that I have a project deadline next week I cannot
report my experiences yet. As soon as I've got the material together and 
enough time to compose a nice summary of the different approaches to
generate 'perforated metal/material' I will send my results to the this list.
In the meantime: thanks alot everyone :-)

 Erwin

-- 
Erwin Zierler		! email:  erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at
University of Innsbruck	! voice:  +43 (0)663-9156926
Austria 		! WWW:    http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/erwin/

From haldane@MIT.EDU Tue Nov 26 08:54:12 1996
Return-Path: <haldane@MIT.EDU>
From: haldane@MIT.EDU
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: subscribe
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 11:54:24 EST
Status: R


subscribe


haldane@mit.edu

From mandelman@shooshanian.com Tue Nov 26 09:35:18 1996
Return-Path: <mandelman@shooshanian.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 12:37:33 -0500
From: mandelman@shooshanian.com (Michael Andelman)
To: RADIANCE-REQUEST@HOBBES.lbl.gov
Subject: Please include me as a subscriber to the list.
X-Url: http://radsite.lbl.gov/adeline/new_features.html
Status: R

Thank you.

From meinrad.scheibleger@erlm.asi.siemens.de Tue Nov 26 05:40:35 1996
Return-Path: <meinrad.scheibleger@erlm.asi.siemens.de>
From: meinrad.scheibleger@erlm.asi.siemens.de
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 14:39:49 +0100 (MET)
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: New adress
Status: RO

Please unsubscribe meinrad@marina.scn.de on both lists
and    subscribe meinrad.scheibleger@trt.asi.siemens.de on both lists


From greg Tue Dec 10 10:39:50 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 96 10:15:32 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: New version of Radout (3.9)
Status: R

>From @charon.hl-technik.de:gm@hl-technik.de Tue Dec 10 07:39:23 1996
Return-Path: <@charon.hl-technik.de:gm@hl-technik.de>
From: "Georg Mischler" <gm@hl-technik.de>
To: radiance-discuss@georg.schorsch.com
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 14:38:00 -0100
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT: radout3.9
Status: RO

Hello fellow radiance users,

I am proud to present (with the kind permission of Philip Thompson):

  *** The Radout v3.9 for Unix Systems Source Code Distribution ***

  http://www.schorsch.com/autocad/radout/index.html

What is radout: 

Radout is an ADS application for Autocad 12 and up for exporting geometry
data to the RADIANCE lighting simulation package. 

Radout is largely based on the old torad.lsp program, which provided the
inspiration and the understanding of autocad's workings to the author
Philip Thompson. Methodically, it is almost identical.

The main differences to torad are: 

    -  Compiled in C, executes up to 10 times faster. 
    -  Creates a simple rif file for immediate input to rad(1). 
    -  Some bugs avoided, some new introduced. 
    -  Much better arc/bulge approximation. 
    -  Creates rif file for input to rad(1). 

This release is version 3.9, including my modifications to support the
upcoming ddrad radiance user interface for autocad. Radout 3.9 has been
compiled and tested on the following platforms:

       Sun Solaris 2.x 
       SGI Irix 5.x/6.x 
       HP-UX 10.x/11.x

Most other unix platforms should compile with little changes to the top level
makefile. Please note though, that you need an ANSI compiler. Many compilers
bundled with unix systems allready are ANSI compatible (most prominent
exception beeing SunOS 4.x). Otherwise your best choice usually is gcc.
I hope to be able to supply binary distributions for various platforms
eventually. If you want to contribute one (and the makefile changes needed
to build it), go ahead!

This release 3.9 is meant to prepare you for the upcoming release of ddrad.
Nevertheless, it is still completely functional as a standalone application.

The DDRAD user interface is still in the works, and will probably be
released in the first quarter of 1997, depending on my time and the outcome
of the negotiations about which third party modules I may include (do you
listen, Benjamin Geebelen? ;-). 

For the moment, all of you get a chance to experience the superior geometry
export performance, which will make my torad pages more and more obsolete.
If nothing goes wrong, the coming release of ddrad 2.0 will be completely
compatible with this release of radout, though there might be a radout
release 4.0 anyway, with some more bugs fixed then. The goal is, that you
won't have to reinstall radout to work with ddrad if you get the ddrad
configuration right.

In case you want to use radout on DOS or Windows systems, you still need
the port offered by Chas Ehrlich, available at:

  http://www.dnai.com/~chas/radiance/radout.html

Please note though, that this version is not compatible with ddrad.  There
are people considering to change this (say: merge the two versions), but
those plans are still rather vague at this time (at least to my knoweledge).

Those of you who want to continue using radiance with autocad will need to
think about such activities relatively soon though, since autodesk has now
officially stopped further developpement for all unix platforms.
Personally, I will have to consider other possibilities as well, either
trying to get radiance running on WindowsNT or moving to another CAD
package within the next two or three years. Obviously, this desicion
will influence the nature of my future contributions with regards to
radout and ddrad very much.
My earlier decision, to move as much of ddrad as possible away from
autolisp after release 2.0, has now been proven to be valid by autodesk.
If anyone is allready working on a gemoetry export module for
microstation (or considering such work), please let me know. This would
make the move away from autocad much more inviting. Though I have invested
quite some work in the customisation of autocad for the unix platform, but
such is life...

For now, I hope you will enjoy the performance of radout 3.9 as much
as I do. Some of my recent radiance projects would have been impossible to
master without.

Happy exporting!

Georg Mischler


From rpg@sprynet.com Tue Dec 10 11:19:58 1996
Return-Path: <rpg@sprynet.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 14:18:47 -0500
From: Rob Guglielmetti <rpg@sprynet.com>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Subscribe request
Status: R

Please subscribe me to the moderated announcement and digest list.

From greg Wed Dec 11 12:40:45 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 96 12:15:30 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: Inventor format
Status: R

Here are some questions I'm forwarding in case anyone has any experience
with the Inventor 3D model format:

>From radiance@arup.co.uk Wed Dec 11 10:46:58 1996
Return-Path: <radiance@arup.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 96 18:46:38 GMT
From: radiance@arup.com
To: GJWard@lbl.gov
Subject: Inventor
Status: RO

Hi Greg,

seasonal greetings.

I'm looking for a converter from and to SGI Inventor format for RADIANCE models.
I recall seeing some dialogue on this in the Radiance discussion group sometime
ago. Are you aware of the existence of such a converter? or anyone who is 
working on one?


Regards


-Steve Walker


>From greg Wed Dec 11 10:52:48 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 96 10:52:22 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: radiance@arup.com
Subject: Re:  Inventor
Status: RO

Hi Steve,

Greetings to you as well.  Unfortunately, I don't know of any translators
going from Inventor to Radiance -- only the other way via rad2mgf and
mgf2inv.  Interpreting Inventor format files is tricky, and requires a
big, C++ parser and library that I haven't had time to look into.  I don't
know of anyone working on this at the moment, but I can post your query to
the Radiance discussion group to ask.

Shall I?

-Greg

>From radiance@arup.co.uk Wed Dec 11 11:57:46 1996
Return-Path: <radiance@arup.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 96 19:56:52 GMT
From: radiance@arup.com
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re:  Inventor
Status: RO

Hi Greg,

I wasn't aware of the rad2mgf and mgf2inv programs - where can I pick them up?

It seems that SGI would like everyone to buy there Open Inventor package
(is there an oxymoron there?) which would almost certainly do the inv2rad
conversion. We're contemplating getting this but in the meantime being able
to write Inventor files would be most useful (- I'm using IRIS Explorer to
display rtrace results and the missing bit is the scene geometry at the moment).

Of course raising the issue with the Radiance discussion group would be welcome.


-Steve Walker


------------------
I have written a converter from the Materials and Geometry Format (see
http://radsite.lbl.gov/mgf/HOME.html for details) to Inventor and VRML 1.0
format, and this may be combined with rad2mgf to get from Radiance -> Inventor
or VRML, but not the other way.

Here is a script that works on some SGI systems for viewing Radiance files,
similar to objview but using SceneViewer and hardware acceleration:

#!/bin/sh
#
# View Radiance object using Inventor
#
echo "Converting input file...\c"
(echo xf -rx -90; rad2mgf "$@"; echo xf) | mgf2inv -1 > /usr/tmp/rf$$.iv && \
        echo "done." && \
        SceneViewer /usr/tmp/rf$$.iv
exec rm -f /usr/tmp/rf$$.iv

-------------------
I don't know why Steve thinks that the OpenInventor package would provide
a converter to Radiance.  I seriously doubt it would.  Does anyone know for
sure?  Is anyone working on this problem?

-Greg

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From greg Fri Dec 13 11:13:13 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 96 10:00:40 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: Radiance under mkLinux
Status: R

>From m.carr@auckland.ac.nz Thu Dec 12 18:16:11 1996
Return-Path: <m.carr@auckland.ac.nz>
From: Matiu Carr <m.carr@auckland.ac.nz>
Subject: Radiance on mkLinux
To: raydisc@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 14:32:32 +1300 (NDT)
Status: RO

Hi

Has anyone compiled Radiance under linux on a mac, specifically
mklinux?

It dies doing the stuff in "rt" and "utils" with the message,
"there were errors"

I think it might have something to do with the X11 stuff, and have
tried the linux install, Machten install, and ARCH=13!!

thanks,
                                               Mat
    ----------------------------------------------
    Matiu Carr               m.carr@auckland.ac.nz
                                 matiu@carr.gen.nz
    University of Auckland
    http://archpropplan.auckland.ac.nz/People/Mat/
    ----------------------------------------------

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From greg Fri Dec 13 16:37:12 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 96 15:40:50 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: Radiance under Linux
Status: R

>From paulg@teleport.com Fri Dec 13 15:34:26 1996
Return-Path: <paulg@teleport.com>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <paulg@mail.teleport.com>
From: "Paul Garceau" <Paul.Garceau@teleport.com>
Organization: Paul Garceau
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 15:38:53 -800
Subject: Re: Radiance under mkLinux
Reply-To: paulg@teleport.com
Priority: normal
Status: RO

> From: Matiu Carr <m.carr@auckland.ac.nz>
> Subject: Radiance on mkLinux
> To: raydisc@hobbes.lbl.gov
> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 14:32:32 +1300 (NDT)
> 
> Has anyone compiled Radiance under linux on a mac, specifically
> mklinux?

	I've compiled it under Linux, except it wasn't a Mac.  You might be
sure that you have all of the Mac libraries (M68k) before you attempt an 
install.  Radiance is very picky about what is and is not available on the 
system.  My own install took a bit of time.

	I also needed to be sure that I had a csh available on the system for it
to handle some of the make stuff, specifically mklinux since mklinux is a
csh based script.  You might want to verify that you do indeed have a csh
available.  If not, install it and use the "shell" command (see the
format with shell --h, or shell --help) to get the latest version of csh
active and to test to be sure that it works on your system.  You may need
some special libraries (such as aout data files since I don't think the 
available version of cshell [csh] for Linux is very recent at all).

	If you do have csh installed, then the next thing to check is that all 
the libraries (as noted above for the 68k based system since most of the 
Macs I am aware of are 68k based systems) are installed.

	Also, check that you have the latest kernel (2.0.22 or later) for your
Linux and all the various utilities you need (such as the right version
of libc, make 3.75 or later, a collection of the aout libraries for 68k
and a collection of the ELF libraries for Linux -- Radiance, as far as I
know is set up to use the aout file libraries; if someone could verify
this it would be appreciated.)  You may not need the aout files.  Even so,
as a precaution it might be a good idea to install them on your system and 
leave them there until there is no more software on your Linux system that 
requires them.

	You'll also need to be sure that you have the latest version of tcl/tk 
for your Linux system since Radiance needs those utilities in order to run 
some of the binaries that are eventually installed. "rt" and "util", afaik, is
a tcl/tk based binary that requires the aout file formats.  I trust Greg to 
correct me on this if I am wrong.

[The "trad" program, built in src/util, is the only dependent on Tcl/Tk.  -G]

	As far as I can tell there are certain X libs that need to be there.
Whether they are aout or ELF can, and quite possibly does, make a
difference, thus my earlier suggestion about installing both the aout and
the ELF libs if you only have one or the other.  Also, be sure that you
define the proper include and libc (libc headers) directories so that
"mklinux" can find them in the actual configuration of the "make" itself.  

	You also may have to define the machine you are using, though this is
not likely since Radiance can be compiled using GCC (again, you need to
specify this in the configuration options otherwise Radiance assumes Ansi
C as far as I know.) and later versions of GCC can usually figure out the 
processor being used.

[Radiance is K&R C, which predates ANSI and leaves off prototypes.  -G]

	One more thing, as long as csh is available in one of your binary 
directories you may be able to let Radiance hunt it down as long as it is 
runnable and available under Linux.  Since I am unfamiliar with the 68k 
based Linux box, there is not much more I can offer at this point.

> 
> It dies doing the stuff in "rt" and "utils" with the message,
> "there were errors"

	I had the same sort of errors when I compiled Radiance (now using a
Pentium based system).  Verify that you have csh available to use as well
as the proper libc and X lib files, manually defining the proper libc
include, libs and X libs as needed.

	I hope this is helpful.  Cheers.

  	Peace,

		Paul G.


Nothing real can be threatened.
    Nothing unreal exists.

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From matthews@artifice.com Mon Dec 16 14:59:39 1996
Return-Path: <matthews@artifice.com>
Subject: Re: Radiance on mkLinux
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 96 15:02:22 -0800
From: Kevin Matthews <matthews@artifice.com>
To: "Matiu Carr" <m.carr@auckland.ac.nz>
Cc: "Artifice Support" <support@artifice.com>,
        "Gregory J.  Ward" <greg@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Status: RO

Hi Matiu,

Haven't tried building on linux/mac, but I can report that most of the 
tricky spots in building on MachTen/Mac have to do with the paths to the 
X11 libraries.  

When I tried to use the MachTen install for MachTen, it didn't work, and 
we haven't been able to focus on the detials yet -- even though I'm sure 
it is a small glitch of a sort we've solved before...

Good luck -- I'd like to hear if someone can give you a solid answer.

Thanks,

Kevin

From greg Tue Dec 17 12:37:10 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 96 11:59:45 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: modeling "kalwall" in Radiance
Status: R

I don't know what "kalwall" is, but maybe someone else does.  -G

>From eharch@worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 16 09:24:41 1996
Return-Path: <eharch@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:20:41 -0500
From: Robert Westling <eharch@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: eharch@worldnet.att.net
Organization: eha
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Radiance Materials
Status: RO

Has anyone needed to include the material 'Kalwall' in a daylighting
analysis?

We are modeling a skylights in a museum and want the closest material
definition we can get, for illuminance accuracy.  I imagine Kalwall
would be a trans material type with a low level of transmission and a
high diffuse parameter.  

If any one has experience with this material please let me know.

Thank you in advance.

Robert Westling
steinerwestling


From greg Tue Dec 17 19:37:16 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 96 18:59:04 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: Re:  modeling "kalwall" in Radiance
Status: R

>From darkwing@bsdd.regensburg.com Tue Dec 17 18:39:35 1996
Return-Path: <darkwing@bsdd.regensburg.com>
To: raydisc@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re: modeling "kalwall" in Radiance 
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 03:15:16 +0100
From: Christoph Hoegl <darkwing@bsdd.regensburg.com>
Status: R

Hello,

> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:20:41 -0500
> From: Robert Westling <eharch@worldnet.att.net>
> Reply-To: eharch@worldnet.att.net
> Organization: eha
> To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
> Subject: Radiance Materials
> 
> Has anyone needed to include the material 'Kalwall' in a daylighting
> analysis?

see http://www.stoakes.co.uk/kalwall1.htm for further information


regards, 
Christoph

Back after a long time hacking on a Modeler
(first alphaversion will be announced soon)


-- 
Christoph Hoegl / darkwing@bsdd.regensburg.com / (Darkwing@berkeley.edu)
Siedlungsstr. 18 93128 Regenstauf Germany  Fax:+49 940270611
12a Tellerrd. 93720 Berkeley CA USA        Fax:+1 (510) 642 1043



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From heckes@mx3eslb.dmt-lb.cubis.de Tue Dec 17 00:19:46 1996
Return-Path: <heckes@mx3eslb.dmt-lb.cubis.de>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <heckes@mx3eslb.dmt-lb.cubis.de>
From: "Juergen Heckes" <heckes@dmt-lb.cubis.de>
Organization: DMT Gesellschaft fuer Lehre und Bildung mbH
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:19:14 +1
Subject: Hilfe
Reply-To: heckes@dmt-lb.cubis.de
Return-Receipt-To: heckes@dmt-lb.cubis.de
Priority: normal
Status: RO

help
end
_______________________________________________________________________

        __          Dipl.-Ing. Holger LANGER
       / /\         DMT-LB (DBM)
      / /  \        Deutsches Bergbau-Museum
     / / /\ \       Abt. Photogrammetrie
    / / /\ \ \
   / / /  \ \ \     Mail:   Am Bergbaumuseum 28, 44791 Bochum, Germany
  / /_/____\ \ \    Tel.:   ++ 49 (0)234 5877 148
 /__________\ \ \   Fax:    ++ 49 (0)234 5877 111
 \_____________\/   mailto:heckes@dmt-lb.cubis.de

________________________________________________________________________

From greg Fri Dec 20 11:11:43 1996
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 96 10:48:29 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: fritted glass in Radiance
Status: R

>From steinerwestling@worldnet.att.net Fri Dec 20 09:10:53 1996
Return-Path: <steinerwestling@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 12:06:44 -0500
From: Robert Westling <steinerwestling@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: steinerwestling@worldnet.att.net
Organization: steinerwestling
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Ceramic Frit Patterns
Status: RO

Another question regarding materials for skylights:

Is there a way to make a material in Radiance similar to the opacity
maps found in 'photo-realistic' rendering software, (ie. 3d Studio). We
want to be able to map a bitmap, perhaps in the form of a *.pic file,
onto a glass material and have all values in the bitmap drop out so that
you can see through where the bitmap is darker than a particular value.
It would seem that this could be achieved via a picture func file but we
have never seen it done in any of the previous discussion archives.  
Has anyone written a func file to do opacity mapping?

Thank you in advance.

ps  Radiance 3.0 flies on a Pentium Pro 200 w/ 256 meg of ram, 512k l2
cache, and Slackware 95. Go go go!!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Both the "mixfunc" and "mixdata" primitives can switch between two materials,
or between a material and "void", permitting this kind of opacity map.  This
didn't use to be possible, but has been added in version 3.0.  What you might
want to try is the "mixtext" primitive, which will actually allow you to
specify a bitmap to switch between glass (or trans) and your frit material.
Use the special font "hexbit4x1.fnt" which takes a hex digit ([0-9A-F]) and
uses it as a 4 adjacent bits in a row of your bitmap.  For example, let's
say you had a row of 13 bits, where 1 is a frit position and 0 is no frit:

	0100100010100

This would be converted into a line of hex digits in your text file:

	48A0

The next line in the file would be the next row in your bitmap.  The problem
with this method is that the boundaries of your text file define the boundaries
of your frit pattern.  If you want a repeating pattern, you'll have to stick
with the mixfunc or mixdata type and use a tiling coordinate mapping.

-Greg

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From cceyeoeh@nus.sg Mon Jan  6 00:38:10 1997
Return-Path: <cceyeoeh@nus.sg>
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 16:38:39 +0800 (SST)
From: Yeo Eng Hee <cceyeoeh@leonis.nus.sg>
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: request to join radiance discussion group
Status: RO

Hello,

I would like to be included in the radiance discussion group.  My
particulars are below:

Name: Yeo, Eng Hee
email: cceyeoeh@nus.sg

Thanks,

Eng Hee.

Supercomputing & Visualisation Unit
Computer Centre, National University of Singapore
10 Kent Ridge Crescent
Singapore 119260
Tel: (65) 771 5085
Fax: (65) 778 0198
---
Never put off till run-time what you can do at compile-time.
		-- D. Gries


From mstock@engin.umich.edu Wed Jan  8 15:40:54 1997
Return-Path: <mstock@engin.umich.edu>
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 18:41:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Mark Stock <mstock@engin.umich.edu>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Mist Question
Status: R

Hello,

I have a simple question: Why can I not get a mist sphere to rpict 
properly with a user-defined albedo?

void mist cloudstuff
1 sky
0
6 0.005 0.005 0.005 0.8 0.8 0.8 

cloudstuff sphere cloud1
0 0 4  -100 -150 100 180

...plus other stuff in the scene

rpict -vp -700 -700 20 -vd 1 1 0.2 -ab 1 scene.oct > image1.pic
rpict: fatal - bad arguments for mist "cloudstuff"
rpict: 8904 rays, 22.85% after 0.001u 0.000s 0.001r hours on ......

The mist material works when only the extinction coefficients are used.

Any help will be appreciated!

Thanks!

Mark Stock
mstock@engin.umich.edu

From greg Wed Jan  8 15:50:32 1997
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 97 15:50:15 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: mstock@engin.umich.edu
Subject: Re:  Mist Question
Status: R

Hi Mark,

There was a bug in release 3.0 regarding mist arguments, that has been fixed
in a patch.  Be sure to install all the patches in the /pub/patch directory
on hobbes.lbl.gov.  The process has been automated to make it easier.

I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure that putting "sky" as your scattering
source is not going to work.  This is only meant for normal, non-glow sources.
This should work anyway without it to give you a spherical cloud.

Do you still want me to post this to the rest of the group, or shall I just
stick it in the digest for the next distribution?

-Greg

From mstock@engin.umich.edu Wed Jan  8 15:54:18 1997
Return-Path: <mstock@engin.umich.edu>
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 18:55:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Mark Stock <mstock@engin.umich.edu>
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Re: Mist Question
Status: R

Greg,

Naw, I don't think there's a need to post it to the group, I just
hadn't realized that there were patches that weren't installed on our
system here. If you've recieved enough questions about it, though, you
may want to.

Thanks for the quick reply!

Mark Stock
mstock@engin.umich.edu

From greg Tue Jan 21 10:21:07 1997
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 97 09:54:50 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: Radiance results (German)
Status: R

>From @charon.hl-technik.de:helios.hl-technik.de@hl-technik.de Mon Jan 20 04:33:39 1997
Return-Path: <@charon.hl-technik.de:helios.hl-technik.de@hl-technik.de>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:29:19 -0100
From: gm@helios.hl-technik.de (Georg Mischler)
To: radiance-discuss@georg.schorsch.com
Subject: Radiance Projects Web-pages
Status: RO



hello all fellow radiancers,

those of you that are not be scared away by german texts
can now have a look at some of the reasons that kept me from
pushing the release of ddrad more than I did last year.

The url:

http://www.hl-technik.de/9701_1_0_0.htm

displays some of my recent daylighting work with radiance.
I selected the most interesting projects from an architectural
and lighting designers' point of view.

Most renderings are not optimised to the last bit of smooth
photorealism, but rather to an efficient computation of the required
numerical results. The most demanding constraint in this context
usually was model size and complexity (our SIMM supplier loves me).
The images shown have then been used to transport the conclusions
and recommendations drawn from the computed values to the customers
and architects.

These pages are one chapter of a series of "topics of the month"
on our server (older issues found in the "archive"). Presented
topics will eventually cover the full range of building technology.

Right now the complete site is in german only. We are currently
working on an english (and eventually french) version.


hope you enjoy it

Georg Mischler

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From kaming@cuhk.edu.hk Thu Jan 23 03:01:56 1997
Return-Path: <kaming@cuhk.edu.hk>
Sender: benny@cuhk.edu.hk
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:02:26 +0800
From: "Chow ka ming, Benny" <kaming@cuhk.edu.hk>
Organization: Department of Architecture, CUHK
To: Radiance Discussion Group <radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Subject: Image Conversion between TGA, TIF, JPG, GIF to PIC ?
Status: RO

Hi All,

I would like to apply texture mapping on one of my architectural model.
I found out from User Guide that I can use colorpict and picture.cal
to apply a *.pic on the surface.

I would wonder if I scan in some real material, how can i convert it 
into *.pic - radiance picture format.

Benny
______________________________________________________________________
Mr. CHOW ka-ming, Benny                        Voice : (852) 2603 7342
DEPARTMENT OF ARCHITECTURE, CUHK               Fax   : (852) 2603 5267
Web : http://www.arch.cuhk.edu.hk/~benny    E-mail: kaming@cuhk.edu.hk

From greg Thu Jan 23 10:32:38 1997
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 10:32:20 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: kaming@cuhk.edu.hk
Subject: Re:  Image Conversion between TGA, TIF, JPG, GIF to PIC ?
Status: RO

There are a number of image conversion programs.  Check out ra_t8, ra_t16,
ra_ppm, ra_tiff, etc.  Not all of them have reverse conversion options,
but most do.

-Greg

P.S.  I didn't forward this to the discussion group, since it was just
as easy for me to answer it myself.  Hope that's OK.

From pedelty@ltpmail.gsfc.nasa.gov Fri Jan 24 07:18:28 1997
Return-Path: <pedelty@ltpmail.gsfc.nasa.gov>
From: Jeff Pedelty <pedelty@ltpmail.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: subscribe
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:19:10 -0500 (EST)
Status: R

Please subscribe me to the announce and digest lists.

Thanks,
Jeff Pedelty
NASA/GSFC

From pedelty@ltpmail.gsfc.nasa.gov Fri Jan 24 10:57:27 1997
Return-Path: <pedelty@ltpmail.gsfc.nasa.gov>
From: Jeff Pedelty <pedelty@ltpmail.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: subscribe
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:57:50 -0500 (EST)
Status: R

Thanks for the quick response.  Our group is using radiance in
combination with physical models to perform vegetation modeling.

Jeff

From g.m.podesta@agonet.it Fri Jan 24 13:51:45 1997
Return-Path: <g.m.podesta@agonet.it>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:55:00 +0100
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: Giulio Maria Podesta <g.m.podesta@agonet.it>
Subject: 
Status: R

------
Origin:
  Giulio Maria Podesta' (g.m.podesta@agonet.it)
  via Prevostura, 26 - 29100 PIACENZA
  Italy (Europe)
  tel. 39-523-384004


From th@sprynet.com Sat Jan 25 15:55:51 1997
Return-Path: <th@sprynet.com>
From: "Terence D. Hairston" <th@sprynet.com>
To: "'radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov'" <radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Subject: Request to Join Radiance Mailing Lists
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 18:55:48 -0000
Status: R

I would like to be on both Radiance related mailing groups.

Terence D Hairston
th@sprynet.com

From owner-globillum-imag@imag.fr Sat Jan 25 16:30:26 1997
Return-Path: <owner-globillum-imag@imag.fr>
From: "Charles Patterson" <charliep@cc.gatech.edu>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 18:39:05 -0500
To: globillum@imag.fr
Subject: subcribe - charliep@cc.gatech.edu
Status: R

subscribe

charliep@cc.gatech.edu

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
    Charlie Patterson * Georgia Tech * charliep@cc.gatech.edu
    http://www.cc.gatech.edu/gvu/people/Phd/Charles.Patterson/

From greg Mon Feb  3 14:19:26 1997
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 97 13:55:14 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: Torch values
Status: R

I think this should come from the size of the flame and the black body
temperature, no?

>From jlm@gamsau.archi.fr Mon Feb  3 13:36:45 1997
Return-Path: <jlm@gamsau.archi.fr>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 22:37:05 +0100 (MET)
From: jlm@gamsau.archi.fr (Jean-Louis Maltret-GAMSAU)
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: torchs
Status: RO


I am searching for radiance values of torchs  (oil or petroleum)
which were used during ancient times, greek or roman.

If somebody has informations,...

Thanks.

========================================================
Jean-Louis MALTRET         GAMSAU               
Tel: +33 4.91.82.71.64     School of Architecture         
Fax: +33 4.91.82.71.71	   184 Avenue de Luminy 
jlm@gamsau.archi.fr        F-13288 MARSEILLE Cedex 09
========================================================


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From greg Tue Feb  4 13:27:09 1997
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 97 13:02:02 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: FormZ translator
Cc: jllevens@hamlet.uncg.edu
Status: R

Does anyone know how to get from FormZ to Radiance on a Macintosh?

-Greg

--------------
>From jllevens@hamlet.uncg.edu Tue Feb  4 12:40:05 1997
Return-Path: <jllevens@hamlet.uncg.edu>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 15:40:53 -0500 (EST)
From: "JANETTE L. LEVENSON" <jllevens@hamlet.uncg.edu>
To: "Gregory J. Ward" <greg@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Subject: Re:  questions about radiance.
Status: R

Hi Greg,

Our export options for Form-Z include: DXF, ESP, FACT, Form-Z, IGES,
Illustrator, OBJ, PICT, RIB, STL, Targa, 3DGF, 3DMF, and TIFF.

I could try importing Form-Z again. How do you suggest I do it, in case
I'm not doing something correct.

Thanks again for your help,

Jan

On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, Gregory J. Ward wrote:

> Hi Jan,
> 
> I could have sworn that FormZ had some kind of export option that allowed
> it to work with Radiance, but I have no idea what it is.  Maybe I was
> dreaming it, or it was simply wishful thinking on my part.  What are the
> export options for FormZ?
> 
> -Greg
> 


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From audile@onramp.net Tue Feb  4 14:02:45 1997
Return-Path: <audile@onramp.net>
Subject: Re: FormZ translator -- More Info
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 97 16:02:57 -0600
From: <robert@audile.com>
To: "Gregory J. Ward" <greg@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Status: R

(Made the time for you...)

FormZ export settings:

Grouping Method: By Object
Export Method for Solids/Surfaces: By Object
Preserve C-Mesh and C-Curve Controls
Preserve Face Colors
Export Visible Layers Only
Subdivide Concave Faces
Triangulate Faces -- Options: Triangulate All Faces -- (leftmost method)
Include Normals
Fix Smooth Shading -- Angle 40
Use Absolute Indices
Newlines: UNIX (in version > 2.82)
Export Transformation: Normals Point Outward (and others as needed)

use obj2rad one with the -n option to get materials that you'll need, 
then again to convert the obj for use.

hope this helps,
robert



From greg Tue Feb  4 14:19:31 1997
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 97 13:54:34 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: robert@audile.com
Subject: Re: FormZ translator
Cc: jllevens@hamlet.uncg.edu, raydisc
Status: R

Thanks, Robert.  I knew there was some way, and it was even staring me
right in the face in Jan's letter!  I'm just spacing out here....

-Greg

-----------------
>From audile@onramp.net Tue Feb  4 13:48:19 1997
Return-Path: <audile@onramp.net>
Subject: Re: FormZ translator
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 97 15:49:04 -0600
From: <robert@audile.com>
To: "Gregory J. Ward" <greg@hobbes.lbl.gov>
Status: R

>Does anyone know how to get from FormZ to Radiance on a Macintosh?
>
>-Greg

Hi Greg:

I didn't want to respond in the wrong way, so I'm just sending this right 
to you.  Hope that's OK for this time...

Almost all of those images on my hacked together page that is linked to 
yours came from FormZ models.  You just export triangulated geometry with 
normals in OBJ format and use the obj to radiance conversion program that 
we tweaked last year to not put textures out for flat traingles.  I don't 
have time to spit back the exact settings right now because I'm in the 
middle of a big project, but it all works out great (as you can see from 
the images).

robert


[P.S.  Robert's web site is "http://rampages.onramp.net/~audile/radiance/",
	and is linked to the Radiance main site.]

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From chb@cs.tu-berlin.de Tue Feb 11 03:12:43 1997
Return-Path: <chb@cs.tu-berlin.de>
From: Christoph Breitkopf <chb@cs.tu-berlin.de>
Subject: subscribe
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 12:12:08 +0100 (MET)
Status: R

Please add "chb@cs.tu-berlin.de" to the Radiance mailing list.


From jhgreen@labrador.res-hall.nwu.edu Sat Feb 22 11:23:30 1997
Return-Path: <jhgreen@labrador.res-hall.nwu.edu>
From: Jed Greene <jhgreen@labrador.res-hall.nwu.edu>
Subject: Re: what was your request?
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 13:23:03 -0600 (CST)
Reply-To: jhgreen@nwu.edu (Jed Greene)
Status: R

> Re:  Radiance mailing list subscription request
> 
> Subscribe to which list?  The moderated announcement and digest mailing list,
> or the unmoderated discussion group?  Usually people subscribe either to
> the announcement list only, or to both lists.
> 
> -Greg
> 

Both lists, please.  Also, could you update the README file on the 
list archive so others do not make this mistake.

Thank you,
Jed

From N.Ashdown@mmu.ac.uk Mon Feb 24 02:27:37 1997
Return-Path: <N.Ashdown@mmu.ac.uk>
From: Neil Ashdown <N.Ashdown@mmu.ac.uk>
Organization:  Manchester Metropolitan University
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date:          Mon, 24 Feb 1997 10:29:19 GMT
Subject:       subscribe please
Priority: normal
Status: R

I would like to subscribe to both the moderated radiance mailing list 
and the unmoderated discussion group please.

(I used to subscribe to these lists, but I haven't received anything
for quite a while).

Thanks, Neil.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Neil Ashdown                                   
  N.Ashdown@mmu.ac.uk
 
  Department of Architecture, Landscape and Three-Dimensional Design
  Manchester Metropolitan University
  tel: (0161) 247 1134                          fax: (0161) 247 6822
  http://www.mmu.ac.uk/art-des/arc/
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From greg Thu Feb 27 18:03:09 1997
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 97 17:40:18 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: Radiance material properties
Status: R

Anyone want to offer some advice?

>From ben.geebelen@asro.kuleuven.ac.be Thu Feb 27 01:23:42 1997
Return-Path: <ben.geebelen@asro.kuleuven.ac.be>
Sender: ben@asro.kuleuven.ac.be
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 10:44:05 +0100
From: Benjamin Geebelen <ben.geebelen@asro.kuleuven.ac.be>
Organization: dept. ASRO, KULeuven
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: material properties
Status: RO

Hello everyone,

can anyone tell me where it's best to look for material properties such
as specular reflection factors, transmission factors, etc. The
material.rad file is a good start, but where do I begin to look for
other or new materials? Is there enough literature on this or is there a
(best) way to test these things?

Thanks a lot.

	Ben
 
____________________________________________________________
benjamin geebelen           doctoral student in architecture
KULeuven     dept. asro      arenbergkasteel b-3001 heverlee
tel: #32-16-32.17.41                    fax: #32-16-32.19.84
e-mail:                     ben.geebelen@asro.kuleuven.ac.be
homepage:              http://mich1.asro.kuleuven.ac.be/ben/

=====================
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From gibsons@cs.man.ac.uk Fri Mar  7 01:05:52 1997
Return-Path: <gibsons@cs.man.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 97 09:03:57 GMT
From: Simon Gibson <gibsons@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: radmod@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: subscribe
Status: R


Please subscribe me to your mailing list

Simon Gibson
sg@cs.man.ac.uk

From greg Fri Mar 14 10:08:54 1997
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 97 09:44:21 PST
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: Siggraph Slide Submissions
Status: R

>From holly@watson.ibm.com Fri Mar 14 06:01:03 1997
Return-Path: <holly@watson.ibm.com>
X-Lotus-Fromdomain: IBM RESEARCH
From: "Holly Rushmeier"<holly@watson.ibm.com>
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 09:00:34 -0400
Subject: Got Cool Images?
Status: R





Could you send this to the Radiance discussion group? I think they
are a group of people who could send some really beautiful and/or
useful images to the SIGGRAPH slide program.

To:       holly @ watson.ibm.com
cc:        (bcc: Holly Rushmeier/Watson/IBM Research)
From:     wolfe @ cs.depaul.edu
Date:     03/13/97 05:48:19 PM CST
Subject:  Got Cool Images?






SIGGRAPH 97 is looking for the last and greatest you've got in
computer-generated imagery.  The SIGGRAPH 97 Technical Slide set
showcases the best in new or enhanced algorithms and applications.
Slide set images are often used for SIGGRAPH conference promotional
pieces, the opening session and media inquiries.

So send us your slides!  See

http://www.siggraph.org/s97/contributors/programs/slide/index.html

for details.  Deadline is March 19.

Rosalee Wolfe
Technical Slide Set Editor
wolfe@siggraph.org




-------------
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From courret@lesosun2.epfl.ch Thu Apr  3 03:51:15 1997
Return-Path: <courret@lesosun2.epfl.ch>
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 97 13:48:24 +0200
From: courret@lesosun2.epfl.ch (Courret)
To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Radiance
Status: RO

Hi greg,

I appologize for not sending this e-meil to the discution group, but
I have lost my mailboxe and I don't remenber its address.
So, could you please diffuse this on it:

I am looking for a soft to translate Radiance scene file format (*.rad) into
one of the following Formats:
	- Pro/ENGINEER
	-IGES
	-STL
	_VDA
STL would be the more appropriate.
Thanks

--------------------------------------------------------
Gilles COURRET
Laboratoire d'Energie SOlaire et de Physique du Bbtiment
ITB/DA
Ecole Polytechnique Fidirale de Lausanne
1015 Lausanne
Switzerland
Til: +.41.21.693.55.53
Fax: +.41.21.693.55.50
e-mail:	courret@lesosun2.epfl.ch
or	Gilles.Courret@leso.epfl.da.ch


From bwaurk@urc.tue.nl Sat Apr 12 06:43:41 1997
Return-Path: <bwaurk@urc.tue.nl>
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 15:43:17 +0200
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
From: Roel Knapen <bwaurk@urc.tue.nl>
Subject: Subscription
Status: RO


Hello,

Please subscribe me to both the the moderated announcement and digest
mailing list and the unmoderated discussion group.

Roel Knapen
University of Technology Eindhoven
The Netherlands.

From greg Fri Apr 18 11:38:48 1997
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 97 11:15:54 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: trad problems
Status: R

>From jlm@eiffel.gamsau.archi.fr Fri Apr 18 00:54:24 1997
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:53:40 +0200
From: Jean-Louis Maltret <jlm@gamsau.archi.fr>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: tk4.2

I have a problem with trad under new versions of tcl/tk (tk 4.2
especially under solaris and linux) because the function
"tklistboxSingleSelect" is no longer known.

Has anyone encountered this problem and what is the workaround ?

I can look at tcl source but it is not really with pleasure.

Thanks.

==================================================================
Jean-Louis MALTRET             GAMSAU               
Tel: +33 04.91.82.71.64        School of Architecture         
Fax: +33 04.91.82.71.71	       184 Avenue de Luminy 
jlm@gamsau.archi.fr            F-13288 MARSEILLE Cedex 09
http://www.gamsau.archi.fr/~jlm/
------------------------------------------------------------------
"Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas" Virgile (Georgiques II)
==================================================================


The temporary solution to the following problem is to make a link
between wish and wish4.0 in the system execution directory.  (Find
wish by running `which wish`.  You can make a link to your own bin
directory if you don't have system privledges.)  Then, rerun "rmake install"
in the ray/src/util directory to install the more recent version of trad.

The long term solution is for me to pull support for wish3.6.  Is anyone out
there still running it?

-Greg

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From paulg@teleport.com Fri Apr 18 14:44:25 1997
Return-Path: <paulg@teleport.com>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <paulg@mail.teleport.com>
From: "Paul Garceau" <paulg@teleport.com>
Organization: New Dawn Productions
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 14:44:23 -800
Subject: Re: trad problems
Reply-To: paulg@teleport.com
Priority: normal
Status: R

On 18 Apr 97 at 11:15, the Illustrious Gregory J. Ward wrote:

> >From jlm@eiffel.gamsau.archi.fr Fri Apr 18 00:54:24 1997
> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:53:40 +0200
> From: Jean-Louis Maltret <jlm@gamsau.archi.fr>
> To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
> Subject: tk4.2
 
> The temporary solution to the following problem is to make a link
> between wish and wish4.0 in the system execution directory.  (Find
> wish by running `which wish`.  You can make a link to your own bin
> directory if you don't have system privledges.)  Then, rerun "rmake
> install" in the ray/src/util directory to install the more recent version
> of trad.
> 
> The long term solution is for me to pull support for wish3.6.  Is anyone
> out there still running it?

	I started with tcl/tk 4.2 and later.  I didn't use 3.6 at all under 
Linux.

	Peace,

		Paul G.


Nothing real can be threatened.
    Nothing unreal exists.

From jrjones-jesa@asme.org Tue Apr 22 05:58:19 1997
Return-Path: <jrjones-jesa@asme.org>
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 09:00:27 -0400
From: James R Jones <jrjones-jesa@asme.org>
Organization: JESA Services
To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: subscribe
Status: R

Hello
Please add me to both the moderated announcement and digest mailing list
and the unmoderated discussion group. 

Thanks

James R Jones
JESA Services
jrjones-jesa@asme.org

From greg Tue Apr 29 09:40:25 1997
Return-Path: <greg>
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 97 09:17:00 PDT
From: greg (Gregory J. Ward)
To: raydisc
Subject: apologies
Status: RO

I've now attempted to send out this message twice, making mistakes both
times.  Some of you may get this twice, so forgive me!  I'm at a symposium,
feeling terribly jet-lagged after flying all night with food poisoning and
then last night, the hotel fire alarm went off at 4am....

-Greg
----------------------------------------
>From jd224@cus.cam.ac.uk Mon Apr 28 09:07:15 1997
Return-Path: <jd224@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:07:04 +0100 (BST)
From: "J. Dubiel" <jd224@cus.cam.ac.uk>
To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov
Subject: Intensive RADIANCE course in the UK
Status: R


Here is news of a course being held soon in the UK:


*************************************************************

  STOP PRESS !!   STOP PRESS  !!

  RADIANCE - Intensive Course

At the University of North London we have had many enquiries about how
best to get started on the RADIANCE software and how to obtain the best
results from simulations. Although user documentation exists, learning
RADIANCE can be very daunting.=20

Undoubtedly the best way to learn is with the help of an experienced user.
The LEARN unit at UNL has taken advantage of the presence of
Raphael Compagnon in the UK (at the Martin Centre, Cambridge)
to organise a 3-day course on RADIANCE. The course will be held
at the Low Energy Architecture Research Unit (LEARN) from 1-3 July 1997.

The course will give an overview of the RADIANCE software, with emphasis
on points not covered in the user documentation. Many of the examples and
exercises will be from the context of daylighting. The format of the
tuition will be tutorial sessions interspersed with hands-on exercises.
The material to be covered in the three days is listed below. Enough
computers will be provided for all participants to make intensive use of
the time (please state preference for PC or UNIX system) and
additional tutors will be on hand for help with hands-on sessions. The
course will be led by Raphael Compagnon, with other tutors including Jo
Dubiel, John Solomon, Axel Jacobs and Aris Tsangrassoulis.

Places are limited, so it is advisable to book early. The cost is =A3650 +
VAT for all three days including lunch. To book or for further details,
contact Mike Wilson, LEARN, SAID, UNL, Spring House, 6-40 Holloway Road,
London N7 8JL
Tel. 0171-753-7006   Fax 0171-753-5780   email M.Wilson@UNL.ac.uk

You might also like to look at LEARN's WWW site:
http://www.unl.ac.uk/LEARN/

*******************************************************

Material to be covered during the three-day course:

> 1st day:
>=20
> Introduction (e.g. how and where RADIANCE has been developed)
> Physical basis
> General structure of the software
> Structure of a "scene" file
> Model of a sky
> Interactive visualisation using rview
> Rendering a picture using rpict
> Special projections using rtrace
> Picture processing
>=20
> 2nd day:
>=20
> Model of a room daylighted by an anidolic lightshelf
> How ray tracing works within RADIANCE
> Illuminance calculations
> False colour pictures
> Assessing discomfort glare
> A few words on textures and patterns
> Automatisation of the rendering process using rad
> RADIANCE distribution and user support
>=20
> 3rd day:
>=20
> Personal projects


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jo Dubiel    jd224@cam.ac.uk

The Martin Centre for Architectural and Urban Studies
University of Cambridge
6 Chaucer Road
Cambridge  CB2 2EB  UK

Tel. 01223 - 331714
Fax. 01223 - 331701
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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